# Plasticizer Problems / Discussion / Gallery



## ramkatral

This thread was originally started in order to show a couple of picture of what severe plasticizer build up looks like, and to show a problem I had been experiencing with Primochill LRT tubing. However, the thread has formed into a broad discussion about plasticizer.

Feel free to post any questions or problems you've experienced lately. If you can, please include what type of tubing it is, what components are in your loop, what additives you were using, and how long it took for the leeching to start. Pictures would be great. Also, we welcome any posts about people NOT having a problem with their tubing.

I'm hoping this can help us come together as a community and track down any tendencies of certain tube types.

Also, jackofhearts495 has started building a database of issues people have had with what tubing types. Please, check out the database here and add your info.

Here is the link: Water tubing database v1.0

Maybe with a little effort we can start to see some trends and what leads to bigger problems.

Original post:

Just wanted to share this. It would seem Primochill hasn't been so resistant lately.










I disassembled the loop after only 2 weeks with this tube in order to make some changes. Pretty significant coating in such a short time. Not worrying with cleaning the blocks for the time being, since I am both busy and lazy, but definitely will be switching tubing next time.


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## ramkatral

Cut the tube section open to inspect it, and it's pretty damn bad.


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## LuckyDuck69

Holy crap! I'm hoping this is just a faulty batch of product.


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## kazenagi

Hmm.. maybe you got a bad batch of some sort or just issues with the black primochill... my longest running primochill clear tubing is around a year and I still don't have any plasticizer leeching, everything's still crystal clear apart from the slight blue dye from mayhems I have running but that's expected.. I had another loop going for 6months with clear primochill tubing I tore down recently and that too was crystal clear apart from the slight dyeing of the walls.


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## ramkatral

Yea, but several people here lately have talked about rapid plasticizer build up. Another guy here recently mentioned his clear Primochill was clouding up already after 2 weeks.


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## Angrybutcher

My UV Green Primochill has a slight haze on the inside after it ran for months. It is very slight and I have no idea if it would wipe off as I don't have anything to shove in there. In my case, it does not affect the clarity at all, nor is it any sort of white-ish color.

Hopefully my next purchase of blue tubing also stays transparent


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## takt

Is that a buildup of gunk (for lack of a better word)?


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## ramkatral

It's plasticizer from the hoses.


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## takt

OP (and others with Primochill LRT clouding), are you using a silver killcoil with biocide/corrosion inhibitor/other additives?

Thinking of trying out the clear LRT tubing...


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## Agenesis

I find that hard to believe, heres one of my 6 months used black lrt tubing (changed black to white/red, black is the hardest on an unrelated note). I cut it apart and could faintly see a white layer, and the buildup is only evident if you scrape it using scissors.










Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LuckyDuck69*
> 
> Holy crap! I'm hoping this is just a faulty batch of product.


Most likely this.


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## Th3Gatekeep3r

I have primochill clear and I dont see much of anything built up yet, its been in for probably a month now. Nothing like the XSPC tubing I had before it! I'll keep my eye on mine, but I hope that yours is just a bad batch that made it past QC


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## AliceInChains

In my experience all clear tubing gets cloudy way to fast. Tygon especially. I wont even use clear tubing unless it is out of view. Like my fill port uses clear. Everything else is either white or black.


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## EasterEEL

Plasticizer (DEHP) is a cloudy, oily substance, there is no way it would coat the inside of pipe like that in two weeks. UNLESS there is also something else going on, for instance too much copper sulphate (base ingredient in PT Nuke) for it to stay diluted and reacting with the leaching. That is a different problem but even so very difficult to image how that could build up like that in two weeks, there must be more to this than just possible dodgy tubing.


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## Angrybutcher

What I don't understand is why it's such a perfect coat. It looks like the loop was run with white-out. The plasticizer we usually see gooped up in blocks, looks like dried rubber cement, rather than white-out. Could this have been a reaction rather than leeching?


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## tsm106

I got that on my tubes about the same time as all four of my ek nickel blocks corroding. Coincidence? Have a new tube set just haven't replaced it.


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## ChaseH

I had my computer apart this weekend and had some normal light inside the case and found some inside my blue hose. The hose has been in the system 3 weeks this Saturday. I used distilled and 1 silver coil, would 2 be better?


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## Atlantida

I noticed after one leak test, my black Primochill tubing started to show signs of plasticizer (I'm still not clear exactly what specifically the term is). A uniform dark white film forming inside the tubing. This was after less then 24hours of leak testing with distilled water. I do think it might be something else. Not sure exactly, but based on how long it takes to form, usually a few months from what I've read, in my case I'm not sure plasticizer leaching is what transpired.

Does the water it self start to become cloudy along with the inner tubing walls? The water itself was sparkly clean when I had drained it.

This tubing is very stiff compared to what I have used in the past. Not sure what additives they might have thrown in to minimize kinks.


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## EasterEEL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atlantida*
> 
> I noticed after one leak test, my black Primochill tubing started to show signs of plasticizer (I'm still not clear exactly what specifically the term is). A uniform dark white film forming inside the tubing. This was after less then 24hours of leak testing with distilled water. I do think it might be something else. Not sure exactly, but based on how long it takes to form, usually a few months from what I've read, in my case I'm not sure plasticizer leaching is what transpired.
> Does the water it self start to become cloudy along with the inner tubing walls? The water itself was sparkly clean when I had drained it.
> This tubing is very stiff compared to what I have used in the past. Not sure what additives they might have thrown in to minimize kinks.


Plasticizer (usually DEHP in tubing we would use) is added to make the tubing less stiff so it can be shaped more easily. Nominally plasticizer leaching occurs and is a problem because we are using tubing that was designed for gas not liquid, or the fluid temp is higher than the tubing is rated for, or the fluid contains chemicals which react with the tubing. There are all sorts of reasons.

As the plasticizer leaches, a cloudy, oily substance is introduced into the liquid. My clear Tygon 3603 (tubing designed for gas) has started to cloud in less than six months. I can see the liquid is more opaque than the crystal clear colour it was from new. I have some white sediment around the waterline of the reservoir. If the plasticizer is suspended in the water it is not really a problem but it does seem to eventually start coating things.

The plasticizer leaching will exhaust itself at some stage and the tubing will be less flexible. I will probably flush my system and accept the tubing is a bit cloudy or it it gets really bad replace the tubing with something that is designed for hot liquids does not contain plasticizer and retains flexibility without kinking if there is such a product. Actually there are some specialist products designed for the food and beverage market for Tygon but the costs are high because of the industrial lengths you have to buy:

http://www.coleparmer.com/Category/TYGON_Food_and_Beverage_Tubing/6775

If anybody is using one of these products successfully I would be interested to know!


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## Raging Bull

Hi guys i am also having the same problem. when i initially built my system on 27/12/2011 my tubing was crystal clear but on 1/1/2012 after only 6 days my tubing was cloudy. i was using distilled water with primochill liquid utopia and Mayhems Red dye. i had pre-treated the 5 ltrs off distilled water before filling my loop. Here are the pics off before and after.

Before when the loop was first built


After 6 days off running


haere are the tubes after replacing them with the left over Primoflex LRT 1/2 ID X 3/4 OD


After replacing the tubes and filling it with the same distilled water and mayhems Pastelle Red dye the tubes have been coated again.

Replaced tubes on the 10/01/2012 and the tubes have clouded enough to change the dye from blood red to pink on 20/01/2012 thats 10 days after changing out the tubing. .

on the 10th this is what it looked like


on the 20/01/2012 this is what it looked like


Primochill really need to fix this if its a problem with their tubing.

im gonna change out the pipes AGAIN for the third time and this time im gonna mix Mayhems Red Pastelle dye with fresh Distilled water (250 ml of dye with 750 ml off Distilled water= 1 Lt off coolant) and see if it happens again. I have a feeling i may have overtreated the water i used in the previous 2 loops.


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## EasterEEL

Really good pictures, it is interesting to see the difference between the tubing and the reservoir. The reservoir is showing the liquid has become more opaque so presumably stuff is suspended in it.

Amazing how quickly the tubing is getting coated which suggests to me this not just plasticizer leaching it has to be plasticizer leaching + chemical interaction with the fluid additives then causing a reaction with the tubing which does seem very receptive to coating.


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## Raging Bull

@EasterEEL actually the flash is showing the reservoir to be a bit more opaque but in real life its the same color as it started out. The tubing on the other hand is definetly coated. After this happend the first time i flushed the entire loop thrice with Demineralised water. Would you reckon its still Plasticizer ??? or just overtreatment ???


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## EasterEEL

Well IMO plasticizer doesn't coat tubing like the original posters pictures. That fine white powder looks more like radiator flux, not plasticizer leech. My Tygon R3603 is leeching plasticizer but it doesn't look like that.

After six months I have slightly cloudy tubing and I think that is what you have got as well. What I can't tell from the pictures is if you also have coating building up and if so why yours is happening so quick.

I would be temped to re flush and change tubing it necessary then run with distilled water with one tiny drop of primochill liquid utopia. Run for a few weeks to see how it goes and if all is well then add the dye.

The point I would make is plasticizer leaching will eventually stop and in my case I expect to just end up with stiffer Tygon 3603 which is a bit cloudy which doesn't really matter as the green liquid will still look fine through it. When I re flush with new liquid it will no longer get significantly contaminated with plasticizer providing I don't change the tubing again. If I do change the tubing I will try and use tubing made for beverages etc without plasticizer (if I can afford it).


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## Raging Bull

im gonna change out the tubing and flush the system. im not gonna use Liquid utopia cause Mayhems Pastelle range already has Biocide and Anti-Corrosive in it so all one has to do is mix Distilled water and the dye in the proportions stated by Mayhem. The mistake i think i made was adding already treated Distilled water to the dye and that has overtreated the loop. Furthermore i think the distilled water i used before has been overtreated with liquid utopia. Am gonna change out the tubing next week as im adding a 140mm rad inplace off the 140mm Exhaust to better cool my 6870 CF setup.

Cheers for the posts and feedback i appreciate it.


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## Atlantida

I think I'll be flushing my loops sooner then later to avoid any build up on the block pins. TY for all the info.


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## ramkatral

It's not flux. I flushed the rads heavily. It's only on the tubes and nowhere else in the loop that I can see. It is NOT copper sulfate, as I use PT Nuke PHN. This, however, was with no biocide. It was just a silver coil and distilled. The water in the res is perfectly clear. I flushed the old water out when I opened it up, and now it's running distilled, kill coil, and PT Nuke PHN on the same tubing (Too much going on to change it all out right now). The water that I drained from it was crystal clear. If it's not plasticizer, and I know it's not flux, you tell me what it is. That's the only explanation I can come up with. Either way, it's not hurting my temps, so I'm not that worried about it inside of black tubing. I was just showing it.


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## Angrybutcher

I was doing some searching last night, and did find a few other reports of this same issue on both Primoflex black and clear tubing.


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## Los Hog

I think every tubing out there does this to some degree


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## Angrybutcher

Minor clouding, haze, film sure, but the inside turning white-off white is pretty odd. Especially for black tubing lol


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## ramkatral

It's like a fine powder when I wipe it. Very fine. It's odd and has to be something with the tubing.


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## LordThundar

tsm106 mentioned that his blocks were corroding as the tubes clouded up. That may point to a capacitance issue in the loop itself caused by mixing metals without enough inhibitor to stop it.

I've run mixed and non-mixed loops and have only had problems when my inhibitor levels were off. Never tube clouding though, usually just light staining from my inhibitor additive.. I've run both clear and colored tubing also without issue, normally the Primochill stuff that you can pick up from Microcenter...


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## rubix_1011

Just an FYI on this-

I did some basic testing with distilled water only and distilled and a killcoil in a loop for 1 week at a time, running 24/7. Killcoil in the loop caused more 'cloudiness' than when it was not present. Also, I noticed that when the killcoil is closer to the pump and/or PSU, there appears to be a bit more reaction with how cloudy the tubing becomes.

All in all, the hypothesis was if an electomagnetic field causes ionization of the silver, leading it to cause cloudiness. If anything, it does appear to be possible, but cloudiness appeared on tubing inner walls regardless if killcoil was in the loop or not.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/269759-29-experiment-kill-coil-electromagnetism-cloud-tubing


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## faMine

This worries me a bit because I just purchased some black Primochill and I was only going to run a kill coil.


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## Angrybutcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *faMine*
> 
> This worries me a bit because I just purchased some black Primochill and I was only going to run a kill coil.


I don't believe we've seen anything other than coated tubing at this point. It doesn't seem to be causing any gunk or blockage issues. Seeing as the black tubing is not transparent, it won't ever be visible until you pull the tubing out of the loop. I wouldn't worry about it much.


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## lowfat

Raging Bull, do you still have the old tubing you used? I used Ice Dragon Cooling nanofluid + Mayhems the tubing did start to cloud within a few weeks. However after draining the loop and letting the tubing dry the clouding disappeared. So in my case it definitely wasn't plasticizer.

I've been using the same tubing now for over a year. Every build I just let the tubing dry. Then give it a light brush cleaning.

I also do not think the film on the tubing is plasticizer. Buy some Tygon R3603 or other Tygon and you'll see what plasticizer looks like within a couple of weeks. It also gums up blocks, there would be a nasty residue in most of your blocks.


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## Raging Bull

@lowfat i do have the old tubing but i cleaned it out with tissue paper and its relatively clean. Would you suggest replacing the old tubing when i flush my loop. Im planning on putting a 140mm rad on the exhaust port so i have to drain and change my tubes out anyway..... The white stuff on the old tubes came off pretty easily with tissue paper being pushed through it..... I have a feling it might be the overtreated Distilled water i used.


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## Raging Bull

when i change my tubing out ill take some pics to show everyone what it looks like. I'm pretty sure it will have the same coating as last time. Just realised it could be a bad batch of tubing i got. i had initially ordered 10M off the tubing and used all off it to build my first loop as well as replace the tubing after it clouded up. i recently ordered another 10m off tubing hopefully this will not cloud up as quickly as before. I understand tubes cloud but within a span off 1 week is a bit shocking !!!


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## ramkatral

Either way, it doesn't appear to be anywhere but the tubes. Nothing on the blocks, nothing in the res. Again, I don't think it's anything that's gonna hurt anything, but I figured people might like to see.


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## Angrybutcher

Could it be the anti-microbal coating failing rather than plasticizer?


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## jackofhearts495

Maybe I'm a little paranoid, but I can't imagine putting anything other than pure, distilled water (and a coil) in my loop.

I'm not surprised by any of this. Any minute fault, reaction, etc. between an additive and tubing gets blown into exponential proportions (as we've seen in the thread) when you're running the same water through the same loop for days/weeks/months on end.


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## ramkatral

Jackofhearts, You obviously did not see the part about this happening with only distilled and a kill coil for two weeks. Try again.


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## jackofhearts495

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramkatral*
> 
> Jackofhearts, You obviously did not see the part about this happening with only distilled and a kill coil for two weeks. Try again.


Try again? What is this, a game?









I'm aware that it happens anyway. Why does it matter?


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## Angrybutcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackofhearts495*
> 
> Try again? What is this, a game?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm aware that it happens anyway. Why does it matter?


I think it was the way you said it. Likely your first sentence was not related to the second paragraph. If you read them together, it sounds like you're trying to call him out for running something other than distilled water, which he is not doing.


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## Raging Bull

Im gonna re-do my loop on tuesday. im adding a 140mm rad in place off the 140mm exhaust fan and will definetly be changing my tube and only using distilled water and Mayhems pastelle range. Will post some pics when its done. i will also post some pics off the old tubing for anyone who wants to reference them.


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## jackofhearts495

Sorry if I offended you. Angrybutcher pretty much said it.


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## ramkatral

No no, I'm saying try again at what would cause it, because there were no additives to cause a reaction.


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## jackofhearts495

ahhh haha gotcha.

Relevant Thread

*EDIT* The only reason I can think of for plasticizer leaching in a loop with only distilled water and a kill coil is the coil. Silver is an oxidation catalyst, so maybe it occasionally doesn't play well with the plasticizer in some tubing.

I'll email my chemistry teacher. Maybe she can tell us why this would happen


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## ChaseH

On a side note about kill coils...is one enough for a loop or should I throw my other one in there also? Any reason to not add the other in there?


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## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaseH*
> 
> On a side note about kill coils...is one enough for a loop or should I throw my other one in there also? Any reason to not add the other in there?


Eventhough i use 4 silver kill coils in 2.5 ltrs of mayhems ultra pure water, the rule is 1 silver kill coil per liter of distilled water.

I dont know if the extra kill coils can harm the rest of the loop components though?!


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## ramkatral

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackofhearts495*
> 
> ahhh haha gotcha.
> 
> Relevant Thread
> 
> *EDIT* The only reason I can think of for plasticizer leaching in a loop with only distilled water and a kill coil is the coil. Silver is an oxidation catalyst, so maybe it occasionally doesn't play well with the plasticizer in some tubing.
> 
> I'll email my chemistry teacher. Maybe she can tell us why this would happen


Dude, that thread shows exactly what I have. So apparently it is plasticizer. Thanks for the link.


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## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raging Bull*
> 
> Hi guys i am also having the same problem. when i initially built my system on 27/12/2011 my tubing was crystal clear but on 1/1/2012 after only 6 days my tubing was cloudy. *i was using distilled water with primochill liquid utopia and Mayhems Red dye*. i had pre-treated the 5 ltrs off distilled water before filling my loop. Here are the pics off before and after.
> 
> After replacing the tubes and filling it with the same distilled water and mayhems Pastelle Red dye the tubes have been coated again.
> 
> Primochill really need to fix this if its a problem with their tubing.


I wonder if anyone running straight distilled with Killcoil is having any of these issues.









Honestly from what I've seen, the common link here is dye. Until I see something to the contrary, I can't blame PrimoChill too harshly. Although the liquid utopia shouldn't be an issue since it is from PC. It could be mixing the two has cause a negative chemical reaction with the tubing. I'm certainly no expert, not even advanced level in this regard but every complaint I've seen on this is dye related. That's why I suggested to werm the Distilled test with a piece of tubing.









*edit* Apparently someone had it happen with distilled and KC only? This makes little sense. But it's possible I guess. One question was this all bought through one merchant or is it widespread?









~Ceadder


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## wermad

My clear Primochill tube started clouding up within a week. Going on three weeks now its made the colored liquid look dull. I took out a piece and notice a build up on portion of the tube that makes contact with the liquid. The dyed distilled looks clean under examination and through the acrylic reservoir and block tops, its looks good. I purchased some inexpensive clear vinyl tube and added one piece to the loop. I'll be looking to see if this different one starts to cloud or not. If it does, something in the loop is causing a reaction. If not, I'm dumping primochill as their last tube I had was less than stellar tbh.


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## Khaotik55

I think Primochill has gotten a little slack due to it's success.


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## Angrybutcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> *edit* Apparently someone had it happen with distilled and KC only? This makes little sense. But it's possible I guess. One question was this all bought through one merchant or is it widespread?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Yeah, the OP was distilled & kill coil


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## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramkatral*
> 
> Just wanted to share this. It would seem Primochill hasn't been so resistant lately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disassembled the loop after only 2 weeks with this tube in order to make some changes. Pretty significant coating in such a short time. Not worrying with cleaning the blocks for the time being, since I am both busy and lazy, but definitely will be switching tubing next time.


Not sure where it says anywhere in OP what was run.









Now I know I didn't read all the way through the thread before replying to anyone so I could have missed it but...









~Ceadder


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## wermad

Found this thread:

http://www.overclock.net/t/953316/tygon-tubing-is-getting-cloudy

Martin gives a few suggestions.


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## jackofhearts495

My chem teacher is.... "collaborating"... with some other teachers. Answer is coming though with any luck.


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## Caleal

It always happens to my tubing to one degree or another.
Usually I'm using straight distilled + silver kill coil, but it has happened to the tubing in my 2nd rig that I've never had anything but straight distilled in.
My 2nd rig has been through 3 sets of tubing in less than a year due to major reconfigurations. 3 different sizes of tubing, 3 different PVC tubing formulations, from 2 different commonly recommended manufacturers.


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## jackofhearts495

I ran straight distilled + coil in white Primochill for a few weeks straight before I had to break it down for an RMA. I just checked it and it's squeaky clean.


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## Angrybutcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Not sure where it says anywhere in OP what was run.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know I didn't read all the way through the thread before replying to anyone so I could have missed it but...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/severe-plasticizer-in-primochill-lrt/20#post_16243593

Page 3. I managed to find that just by only skimming the OP's posts....


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## Mayhem

With out advertising any thing have you checked the PH balance your your liquids by any chance. If not a test strip kit costs very very little and can be got from ANY good aquarium shop or pet shop. Just check the PH of your liquids.you can all so get the test strips for a few $ or £.

We have been doing some testing on plasticizer build up for a while trying to develop some thing that helps reduce the rate at which it leaches with some success. You cannot stop it entirely how ever you can slow it down.

What we have found is that is you liquids are around the PH of 8.5 to 9 Plasticizer seems to leach very quickly into the system. Now un treated Di water / Ultra Pure water is around at this level were as at 6.5 to 8 which is the middle of the road its slows down the process.

one thing the remember the thinner the tubing the less plasticizer is there and the less the effect will happen. The thicker the tubing the more of it is present and the more chance it will happen. (not trying to teach ppl to such eggs).

According to the rules im not allowed to post about our solution but if you check out our you tube you can see a new vid posted which will show you what we done to help solve this problem a little. Its still not the perfect answer to totally stopping the problem how ever its a nice little gap filler.


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## Ceadderman

Ahhhh there it is. Thanks AB.









~Ceadder


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## Caleal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mayhem*
> 
> What we have found is that is you liquids are around the PH of 8.5 to 9 Plasticizer seems to leach very quickly into the system. Now un treated Di water / Ultra Pure water is around at this level were as at 6.5 to 8 which is the middle of the road its slows down the process.


Hmm, that may explain why the one time I did the "drop of dish soap" trick, to get rid of small bubbles, my tubing went cloudy very quickly...

I've got a variety of additives for adjusting the PH level up and down for the water in HVAC systems, maybe I'll play around with it a bit in my gimpy Phenom system.


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## wermad

I'm using 3/8x1/2 (10mmx13mm) and it went cloudy within a week. I'm going to test the pH of my loop.


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## phibrizo

Correct my if i'm wrong, but is it kinda of redundant to have a kill coil in Primochill Pro LRT tubing since they claim to be "anti-microbial" tubing?


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## Caleal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phibrizo*
> 
> Correct my if i'm wrong, but is it kinda of redundant to have a kill coil in Primochill Pro LRT tubing since they claim to be "anti-microbial" tubing?


"Anti-microbial" tubing typically doesn't confer any protection to the fluid passing through it, or other components in the loop, with the possible exception of the silver impregnated tubing like Tygon makes.
It just keeps stuff from growing on the tubing walls.


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## phibrizo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caleal*
> 
> "Anti-microbial" tubing typically doesn't confer any protection to the fluid passing through it, or other components in the loop, with the possible exception of the silver impregnated tubing like Tygon makes.
> It just keeps stuff from growing on the tubing walls.


Does the kill coil "deposit" silver into the water for protection?
i personally dont use a kill coil, i just did distilled and ethylene glycol, since i wasnt too sure about what i needed.


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## ChaseH

Just an update since I took my rig apart last night to add a water block to my 285. I knew I was getting some build up but I had no idea how bad it was. The inside of the tubes are solid white. Some pieces look worse than others on the outside but all pieces are affected. First pic is of the inside of one of the tubes. The other with the 3 is left side is suction to the pump, right side is return to resi, and middle is new unused tubing. The tubing in my system is 3 weeks and 3 days old. It has been on distilled water and silver kill coil since day 1. I am not familiar with liter-gallon conversions but my rig uses like 1/3-1/4 gallon of water. So I think I am right at the top end of 1 kill coil being ok. Is there any tubing that won't do this or is there any adverse side effects to running tubing with this stuff in it?


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## Angrybutcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaseH*
> 
> Just an update since I took my rig apart last night to add a water block to my 285. I knew I was getting some build up but I had no idea how bad it was. The inside of the tubes are solid white.


Was this also Primochill? Where did you buy it? I'm about to install their blue tubing and hope this doesn't happen. My UV Green Primochill hasn't experienced this at all, other than very minor haze after several months of use.


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## Ceadderman

I'm starting to wonder if Killcoil is overkill in the loop and may be causing a bad reaction with the tubing?









~Ceadder


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## ChaseH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Angrybutcher*
> 
> Was this also Primochill? Where did you buy it? I'm about to install their blue tubing and hope this doesn't happen. My UV Green Primochill hasn't experienced this at all, other than very minor haze after several months of use.


Yes it was Primochill. Purchased from Performance-PCs right after Christmas.


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## Ulver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaseH*
> 
> Yes it was Primochill. Purchased from Performance-PCs right after Christmas.


That's bad.
Just got that same tubing








Which ID/OD is that ?


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## ramkatral

It seems we are all having problems with Primochill products lately. Tsk Tsk, Primochill.


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## Caleal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramkatral*
> 
> It seems we are all having problems with Primochill products lately. Tsk Tsk, Primochill.


And Tygon


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## ChaseH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ulver*
> 
> That's bad.
> Just got that same tubing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which ID/OD is that ?


It's 1/2x3/4. I thought Tygon was also. Is there anyone besides Tygon's $4 a foot stuff that isn't having any issues?


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I'm starting to wonder if Killcoil is overkill in the loop and may be causing a bad reaction with the tubing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


I'm not running silver and it happened to me









Luckily, the cheap tube is holding quite nicely. By this Saturday, if has held up, I'm switching to the this new tube.


----------



## phibrizo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> I'm not running silver and it happened to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luckily, the cheap tube is holding quite nicely. By this Saturday, if has held up, I'm switching to the this new tube.


What typing is that, Im about to redo my setup here shortly, i dont know if this is happening as I do have Primochill tubes. But if it works and i have no issues ill continue to use whatever doesnt give me plasticizer.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I'm starting to wonder if Killcoil is overkill in the loop and may be causing a bad reaction with the tubing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not running silver and it happened to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luckily, the cheap tube is holding quite nicely. By this Saturday, if has held up, I'm switching to the this new tube.
Click to expand...

Okay cool. Thanks werm for answering my question.









~Ceadder


----------



## ElGreco

Oh great









I use prm lrt blue and black tubes a couple of weeks now, with mayhems ultra pure water and 4 kill coils. I really hope that in a month or so when i will install 2 new waterblocks, my tubes will not be like this!

The pH was the main reason i preferred mayhems ultra pure water...


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phibrizo*
> 
> What typing is that, Im about to redo my setup here shortly, i dont know if this is happening as I do have Primochill tubes. But if it works and i have no issues ill continue to use whatever doesnt give me plasticizer.


Its from Home Depot, "Watts" and its pretty inexpensive @ $4 for 10' amd $6 for 20'. Its a bit rigid but you could probably bend a bit by heating it up or dipping it in hot water. Tbh, the test piece of tube is a bit more flexible. I guess once under some warm liquid (when gaming) it softens up a bit. The primary thing its still transparent but I'll know for sure once I pull it out and inspect it thoroughly.


----------



## jackofhearts495

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> I'm not running silver and it happened to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luckily, the cheap tube is holding quite nicely. By this Saturday, if has held up, I'm switching to the this new tube.


Wait, you're saying that you had plasticizer problems when you ran straight distilled (no dyes, biocides, or coil)?


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackofhearts495*
> 
> Wait, you're saying that you had plasticizer problems when you ran straight distilled (no dyes, biocides, or coil)?


I'm running Mayhem's dye.

There's been a lot of controversy using Silver and I have to blame it on EK and Koolance for scapegoating Silver. The way I see it, its their attempt to shift the blame for their shoddy workmanship. This is causing quite a stir and Silver tends the be one of the first suspects with any water cooling issues that arises these days.

I'm going to buy some extra fittings and plugs soon. I'll run a sample Primochill tube with just distilled to see what happens. I doubt its the dye but it still possible non-the-less. The Mayhems rep says they use a different manufacturer and they have no issues like this.


----------



## Caleal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackofhearts495*
> 
> Wait, you're saying that you had plasticizer problems when you ran straight distilled (no dyes, biocides, or coil)?


One of my rigs has never had anything but straight distilled water in it, and has had plasticizer issues with all 3 sets of tubing I've had in it.


----------



## theimport

Thank god I stumbled upon this. Was about to order some tubing to replace my cloudy Tygon.

Now the question is, what do I get?


----------



## wermad

The Mayhems rep mentioned they use ClearFlex-60 with no issues. I didn't find the size I'm using on ppcs.com but they a couple of offerings. I'm sure you can find it on other sites.

I'm using the clear tube (Watts clear vinyl, from Home Depot) and its holding fine atm.


----------



## ramkatral

Think I'm gonna try masterkleer. It may be just as bad, but I've heard good stuff.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *jackofhearts495*
> 
> Wait, you're saying that you had plasticizer problems when you ran straight distilled (no dyes, biocides, or coil)?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm running Mayhem's dye.
> 
> There's been a lot of controversy using Silver and I have to blame it on EK and Koolance for scapegoating Silver. The way I see it, its their attempt to shift the blame for their shoddy workmanship. This is causing quite a stir and Silver tends the be one of the first suspects with any water cooling issues that arises these days.
> 
> I'm going to buy some extra fittings and plugs soon. I'll run a sample Primochill tube with just distilled to see what happens. I doubt its the dye but it still possible non-the-less. The Mayhems rep says they use a different manufacturer and they have no issues like this.
Click to expand...

Wish I had an extra pump fittings and 120 to perform the test I would like to perform. Basically do a closed loop and run distilled in it nonstop and check the results occasionally to see if it's the tubing or possibly something in the loop which is causing it. If I had a couple spare blocks to add to the loop that would be cool too. Starting out with no blocks then add CPU and run, swap out to GPU and run and then both and run. Basically switching out one hose to have a sample to look at and show the results for. Also I would run the 120 in passive cooling mode to allow the heat to build up and simulate something close to typical.









I have to say though that some people have been having issues with other manufacturers tubing as well. So there are all kinds of factors that may be playing a part in this.









~Ceadder


----------



## Th3Gatekeep3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> I'm using the clear tube (Watts clear vinyl, from Home Depot) and its holding fine atm.


I almost bought a bunch of this stuff, but ended up with some primochill. How long have you been running the cheapo watts? Is it still clear, kind of clear, etc?


----------



## Caleal

The Home Depot tubing I tried leached plasticizer, but it was more of a blueish white tint than the creamy or yellowish white I get from Tygon tubing.


----------



## Padishah

Clearflex-60 isnt any better i had it in my last build and within a week it was real cloudy


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Th3Gatekeep3r*
> 
> I almost bought a bunch of this stuff, but ended up with some primochill. How long have you been running the cheapo watts? Is it still clear, kind of clear, etc?


I added a piece this past weekend. I'll inspect the piece this weekend and remove to compare it with a non-used piece.


----------



## Ulver

This is looking more and more like a case-specific acceleration of platicizer seeping and deposition.








(in other words, it is not a "Primochill only" problem)

Why?
No clear pattern:
it happened to people using primochill lrt, masterkleer, clearflex and etc;
While using Silver coils or not;
With and without dyes;

Since all these circumstances (types of tubing, use of killcoils or PTnuke or dyes, proximity of the silver coil to possible ionizing electromagnetic fields) affect the amount and speed of platicizer seeping and deposition, we can't point to one of them and say that it is the culprit.

So, because this is a complex chemical problem, tubing that works for one loop will not be necessarily good for all loops.

I would say that careful observation and monitoring of your own loop, including ph measurements, would be the best way to prevent that from happening to your rig.

What we need here is someone







whit knowledge in chemistry of industrial plastics, such as PVC, that can tell us how to slow down plasticizer seeping/leeching and deposition.

After that maybe we should setup a "plasticizer database"







on the forum, where people can post the details of their loop and pictures of plasticizer deposition, if possible including ph, so we can have a better idea of what tubing is good for what situation and how to avoid problems on our own loops without having to replace all our tubing.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ulver*
> 
> This is looking more and more like a case-specific acceleration of platicizer seeping and deposition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (in other words, it is not a "Primochill only" problem)
> 
> Why?
> No clear pattern:
> it happened to people using primochill lrt, masterkleer, clearflex and etc;
> While using Silver coils or not;
> With and without dyes;
> 
> Since all these circumstances (types of tubing, use of killcoils or PTnuke or dyes, proximity of the silver coil to possible ionizing electromagnetic fields) affect the amount and speed of platicizer seeping and deposition, we can't point to one of them and say that it is the culprit.
> 
> So, because this is a complex chemical problem, tubing that works for one loop will not be necessarily good for all loops.
> 
> I would say that careful observation and monitoring of your own loop, including ph measurements, would be the best way to prevent that from happening to your rig.
> 
> What we need here is someone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whit knowledge in chemistry of industrial plastics, such as PVC, that can tell us how to slow down plasticizer seeping/leeching and deposition.
> 
> After that maybe we should setup a "plasticizer database"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on the forum, where people can post the details of their loop and pictures of plasticizer deposition, if possible including ph, so we can have a better idea of what tubing is good for what situation and how to avoid problems on our own loops without having to replace all our tubing.


Given that I'm no longer speaking to the Chemical Engineer I know due to the unpaid debt of $10k his son owes me, I won't be able to offer to talk to him. Dude knows his stuff though.









~Ceadder


----------



## wermad

I've seen quite a few cases come up over time with Primochill. More recently tbh but that can be attributed to its popularity. Will see what happens. There's a few of us looking deeper into this. I'm hoping my results turn out to be the Primochill tube so I can switch that out with the inexpensive stuff from Home Depot


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> I've seen quite a few cases come up over time with Primochill. More recently tbh but that can be attributed to its popularity. Will see what happens. There's a few of us looking deeper into this. I'm hoping my results turn out to be the Primochill tube so I can switch that out with the inexpensive stuff from Home Depot


I can't really complain cause I only spent $10 total for 8' of new PrimoChill 1/2" and 4' of used and none of the used stuff I got is plasticized and only ran distilled.









I just split one of the used lengths of tubing and cut off a bit for test purposes. First the split...





As you can see there is a bit of soil in the tubing. I don't think that it's plasticizing because I only used my thumb and rubbed it off. Didn't take much pressure at all to do either. I think it's more dust buildup from lack of use than anything else. I cut this piece in half from end to end and it wasn't cut from a longer piece. What you see is how it was when I got it. When I first looked inside I was a little concerned but then noticed what looked to be drops but with dirt on them. So it seems to be more residual liquid allowed to dry and collect dust than anything else. I didn't do anything with the other half it is as it was when I cut it in half.









What size piece of tubing should I cut off the new bits? Would 3" be enough to test?









~Ceadder


----------



## opt33

8+ years of watercooling and probably 10+ different types of tubing I have tried...bottom line unless the tubing says plasticizer free, it will leek plasticizer and you will get white precipitate on inner bore over time. I thought primochill at one point advertised no plasticizer in their inner bore of tubing, now I dont see that. I think primochill simply changed their tubing supplier or process and maybe used more plasticizer.

Home depot brand tubing has plasticizer and you are guaranteed to get white precipitate in tubing over time.

The answer isnt to slow leeching, the answer is to buy plasticizer free tubing, tygon makes some as do others. Primochill became popular from their lack of plasticizer leech, and they will lose that popularity now. It is amazing some company hasnt come up with colored tubing that is plasticizer free.

And yes all tubing will slightly lose some clarity over time, but their is a far cry between little loss clarity and white crap everywhere.


----------



## wermad

The Watts tubing is still the same and its been almost a week. So tomorrow I'll be slowly breaking down my rig to switch the Primochill. I could do it all at once but I think I'm coming down with pneumonia (again







) so it maybe delayed.


----------



## Raul-7

If the plasticizer is lipid soluble, wouldn't detergent get rid of it? IIRC, my tubing leached plasticizer during the initial 6-9 month phase and now its clear. I'll confirm once I take down my current loop.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> The Watts tubing is still the same and its been almost a week. So tomorrow I'll be slowly breaking down my rig to switch the Primochill. I could do it all at once but I think I'm coming down with pneumonia (again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) so it maybe delayed.


Take care of yourself werm I wouldn't sweat a little cloudy tubing at the moment, you don't want that pneumonia to get out of control. Sucked bein in the hospital with that stuff. Sucks bein in the hospital at all.









Though when your nursing staff can easily be rated 7 to 10 in looks it's not TOO bad. I had it pretty good in the ICU.







lol

~Ceadder


----------



## EasterEEL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ulver*
> 
> This is looking more and more like a case-specific acceleration of platicizer seeping and deposition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (in other words, it is not a "Primochill only" problem)
> Why?
> No clear pattern:
> it happened to people using primochill lrt, masterkleer, clearflex and etc;
> While using Silver coils or not;
> With and without dyes;
> Since all these circumstances (types of tubing, use of killcoils or PTnuke or dyes, proximity of the silver coil to possible ionizing electromagnetic fields) affect the amount and speed of platicizer seeping and deposition, we can't point to one of them and say that it is the culprit.
> So, because this is a complex chemical problem, tubing that works for one loop will not be necessarily good for all loops.
> I would say that careful observation and monitoring of your own loop, including ph measurements, would be the best way to prevent that from happening to your rig.
> What we need here is someone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whit knowledge in chemistry of industrial plastics, such as PVC, that can tell us how to slow down plasticizer seeping/leeching and deposition.
> After that maybe we should setup a "plasticizer database"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on the forum, where people can post the details of their loop and pictures of plasticizer deposition, if possible including ph, so we can have a better idea of what tubing is good for what situation and how to avoid problems on our own loops without having to replace all our tubing.


A "plasticizer database" would be a great idea as would a database of non plasticizer tubing with bend radius etc. I have Tygon 3603 and over the past 6 months my tubing has gone a bit cloudy and my originally crystal clear green Feser F1 fluid is more opaque. However definitely no massive white build up like the Primochill tubing pictures here. I think this is because the Tygon plasticizer leeching is a cloudy/oily which is what I thought all DEHP plasticizer was like. I still think the white coating must be plasticizer reacting with something. However maybe it is better if it ends up coating the tubes like that than being suspended as an oily substance and circulating in the fluid?


----------



## jackofhearts495

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EasterEEL*
> 
> A "plasticizer database" would be a great idea as would a database of non plasticizer tubing with bend radius etc.


That's a good idea... I think I'll have to start one









Tubing brands, diameters, materials, color, transparency, loop additives (coil, dyes, biocides, etc.), loop components, degree of leaching maybe?

I could make a spreadsheet and compile info. Maybe we'll see trends.


----------



## PARTON

I just put together a loop for the first time. I used Primochill black for two days, then drained to properly mount my rad. I had about half as much as shown in the OP's picture. After only two days!

Is this something to worry about? Is this common?

FYI -

Primochill LRT Black 1/2 X 3/4
Distilled water
Silver coil
Nickel plated EK blocks
MCP655B
RX480


----------



## 16ReasonsWhy

I wish I had seen this post earlier! I just picked up 10 feet of UV Blue Primoflex Pro from frozen....always the way.


----------



## Raul-7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PARTON*
> 
> I just put together a loop for the first time. I used Primochill black for two days, then drained to properly mount my rad. I had about half as much as shown in the OP's picture. After only two days!
> Is this something to worry about? Is this common?
> FYI -
> Primochill LRT Black 1/2 X 3/4
> Distilled water
> Silver coil
> Nickel plated EK blocks
> MCP655B
> RX480


Nothing to worry about, only reason we complain is because aesthetically it looks ugly especially with clear tubing.

It might actually improve the performance of the tubing since it forms a hydrophobic layer on the inner surface of the tubing reducing friction.


----------



## wermad

I got most of the loop done (thanks to some meds







) but I notice there's a slight, almost minute, cloudiness to the piece that was in there for testing. Either it picked it up from the others, or this tube does plasticize but much slower. Anyways, it lasted a week much, much better than the Primochill clear. If it fails, I'm going with some colored tube and just stick some leds here and there and run plain distilled.


----------



## ramkatral

Yea, it has had zero effect on performance. Since its black, it can't be seen.


----------



## ff02

PrimoChill is a brand from the same guy that has run ModdersMart. Its called Tyler Industries also. This is their Resellerrating: http://www.resellerratings.com/store/view/Moddersmart/


----------



## wermad

ModderSmart is just another retailer. They offer the best price per feet on amazon.com

I just finished changing my entire loop to the Watts tube. I'll get pics tonight


----------



## Rowey

Damn, i use that tubing...


----------



## jackofhearts495

I just cut open a piece of my white Primochill tubing. I used it for 2-3 weeks in a loop with straight distilled water plus a kill coil in the res. The tubing was clearly discolored (there was a neat little ring around the inside of the tubing where it wrapped around each barb providing good contrast). Nothing horrible, just a little yellow-ish. No residue, blocks are clean.


----------



## ff02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> ModderSmart is just another retailer. They offer the best price per feet on amazon.com
> I just finished changing my entire loop to the Watts tube. I'll get pics tonight


Not just another retailer. Tyler Industries/ModdersMart is the company that has it (Primochill products) made to market to people. I know, as I'm in the industry.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ff02*
> 
> Not just another retailer. Tyler Industries/ModdersMart is the company that has it (Primochill products) made to market to people. I know, as I'm in the industry.


Hmm, so Tyler Industries is the distributor of Primochill or something? Most retailers buy their stuff from the manufacturer or a distributor. I do remember moddersmart.com but I haven't used them in a while ever since they shutdown temporary in early 2011. I'm sorry, I just don't understand your response







.


----------



## ff02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Hmm, so Tyler Industries is the distributor of Primochill or something? Most retailers buy their stuff from the manufacturer or a distributor. I do remember moddersmart.com but I haven't used them in a while ever since they shutdown temporary in early 2011. I'm sorry, I just don't understand your response
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Tyler Industries is the company, they are also the company that does/has made PrimoChill and ModSmart products. Check out their reselleratings and make your own assumptions why someone wouldn't want to deal with them.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ff02*
> 
> Tyler Industries is the company, they are also the company that does/has made PrimoChill and ModSmart products. Check out their reselleratings and make your own assumptions why someone wouldn't want to deal with them.


Dude calm down. I don't get what your saying. I'm trying to decipher it and what I get from you is that Tyler Industries is Primochill? All you had to say "Primochill is made by Tyler Industries".

I just don't understand "Tyler Industries is the company..." What company, what are they?!?!??!?! I'm sorry to go on a rant but I have taking business college courses and when you say a company makes a product you say it that way. Sorry to get worked up about but you seemed irked but your wording doesn't make sense to me. I apologize if english is not your native language (neither for me) but I just don't comprehend your responses. Ok, lets leave it at that


----------



## wermad

Sorry about the rant guys (and double post), not feeling great as I'm sick









Anyways:


----------



## jackofhearts495

Nice 690 build Wermad. I wish my power supply was shorter so I could fit an RX down bottom too









I still love this case to death.


----------



## somebadlemonade

i love the purple, i'm patiently waiting on the results of your testing of the bargain brand tubing


----------



## covert ash

Any updates on this issue? Or possible suggestions for alternate clear tubing manufacturers? I haven't been on these forums much lately, but I been experiencing the same problems since I rebuilt my loop with new EK blocks and clear tubing right after Christmas. Within a couple of days, the clear tubing with distilled water, Feser anti-corrosive solution, and blue Mayhem dye turned to a cloudy mess.

Here's a quick picture from my iPhone.



It's not that obvious, but the fact that it looks more like I'm using blue tubing rather than clear tubing with dyed water is disheartening.









Prior to this, I used the Primochill white tubing that I bought from Micro Center, and that tubing did NOT have any of the white gunk inside after almost half a year's worth of usage. What is particularly interesting, though, is that it came from an older batch. I say that because the packaging was completely different compared to what is being offered today. Perhaps the new stuff (maybe every other manufacturer is also using) just isn't as good as the old stuff?


----------



## jomama22

That just seems like dye staining ur tubing...which is expected.


----------



## jomama22

Iv been running primochill lrt uv blue with no clouding or plastisizer. This is with a little over a month of use. If u look in my sig, the tubing is just as clear in the pic as it is in person


----------



## kazenagi

Nah before this whole problem with primochill tubing surfacing up I had similar setup to that blue dye & clear tubing, there was almost zero dying of any length of tube and if there was it was really faint but you'd still get the "dyed water" look instead of coloured tubing. Looks like another build up of film, maybe primochill switched their manufacturer to Tygon's







Hope my clear tubing from PPC won't cloud up in a week..


----------



## jomama22

Damn that sucks. I only guessed dying because i know how much better it looks to be able to see the blue encased in clear and not just blue.

I got my tubing from frozen cpu and they cut it to length so i didnt get a retail package, just 14ft from a huge spool probably.


----------



## covert ash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jomama22*
> 
> That just seems like dye staining ur tubing...which is expected.


It's not the dye. If it was, then why do people do not use dye in this thread also experience the same issue?

And why would the dye stain a cloudy colored film anyway? If anything, it would just make the tubing blue and only be noticeable when drained.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jomama22*
> 
> Iv been running primochill lrt uv blue with no clouding or plastisizer. This is with a little over a month of use. If u look in my sig, the tubing is just as clear in the pic as it is in person


Have you actually taken your loop apart to see the inside of the tubing? I'm not second guessing you, but you may have a thin film that can't be readily seen until your tubing is taken off the fitting.

**** QUESTION FOR ALL ****

How many of you, who DO have this problem, happen to also have Koolance bay reservoirs? I'm trying to find some other kind of commonality between everyone's setup.


----------



## jomama22

In the post above yours i kind of retracted my statement but yes u are probably right.

Yea iv taken it apart a few times when changing my mobo and cpu last week and rearanging a few tubes. Ill grab a pic but looking at one of the tubes i used (was to short for my new mobo) loojs the way it did when i got it. No clouding or plasticizer


----------



## Mandroid

Here's my clear Primochill tubing after 2 weeks. I was running distilled water and PT Nuke PHN mixed precisely according to instructions on the bottle. EK Acetal+EN blocks, MCP655, XSPC RX360 rad, XSPC Compression fittings, and Bitspower 150mm tube reservoir. Water in the reservoir was still crystal clear.


----------



## somebadlemonade

is it bad i kind of like the look of the frosted tubing, haha


----------



## Agenesis

Counterfeit Primochill tubing? With all the lamptron counterfits that ppc and fozencpu are selling I wouldn't be surprised.


----------



## jmaertens

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *covert ash*
> 
> How many of you, who DO have this problem, happen to also have Koolance bay reservoirs? I'm trying to find some other kind of commonality between everyone's setup.


Well, I don't have that problem, but I am running a Koolance TNK-501 bay res with primochill LRT UV Blue tubing and Koolance blue coolant. There is a slight plasticizer haze on the inside of the tubing, but nothing anywhere close to the pics in this thread. System has been running 24x7 since about last October. Took it completely apart once about two weeks ago for maintenance - very little haze, and thankfully zero buildup or corrosion in the blocks and rad.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agenesis*
> 
> Counterfeit Primochill tubing? With all the lamptron counterfits that ppc and fozencpu are selling I wouldn't be surprised.


I got mine from amazon, which is sold by ModderSmart/Tyler Industries which, according to an ocn member who's "in the industry" makes Primochill tube.

My inexpensive Watts tube from Home Depot is holding strong. I'm planning a new bigger build and I'm going to pick up a roll of 20' Watts 3/8x1/2 clear tube for $6





















for this new build.


----------



## Agenesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> I got mine from amazon, which is sold by ModderSmart/Tyler Industries which, according to an ocn member who's "in the industry" makes Primochill tube.
> My inexpensive Watts tube from Home Depot is holding strong. I'm planning a new bigger build and I'm going to pick up a roll of 20' Watts 3/8x1/2 clear tube for $6
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for this new build.


That guy works for koolertek (which is apparently a family owned business...?) and they carry a decent amount of wc supplies so hes quite right about being in the industry.

I did a little digging -

If you look under the amazon page it'll say tyler direct and moddersmart and if you visit the primochill official website it saids "Copyright 2002-2012 - PrimoChill | Tyler Industries Company".

Likewise I'm not going to touch primochill tubing until this issue gets resolved like the ek incident, just going to hunt down some alternatives such as tygon for my upcoming build instead.


----------



## Ulver

I've got 3 meters of Primochill LRT pro UV blue and 2 meters of Masterkleer UV blue.
Guess it is the perfect chance to test it!
Will use primochill first and see what happens









Anyways, that guy that got "more than 8 years experience with water cooling" summed up real nice.
We should be getting platicizer-free tubing instead of this ****e that will eventually "bleed" plasticizer into the loop









It is, nevertheless, interesting to see why is it that some tubing accumulate plasticizer faster than others


----------



## wermad

Got some extra tube from Home Depot. The 20' is the best price/foot but its not clear completely so I just got a 10' for my upcoming build. It is strange as I double checked both were from the same company, Watts, same size, and both labeled "clear". Here's a pic of the first installment of this inexpensive tube:


----------



## 16ReasonsWhy

Has anyone taken a piece of PrimoChill and just left it in some DI, or whatever their mix is? I think I'll try--mb one with Utopia and one with silver.

I've got the last two blocks for my loop coming and this roll of new PrimoChill UV Blue from frozen staring at me--thoughts of this thread wake me up at night....


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *16ReasonsWhy*
> 
> Has anyone taken a piece of PrimoChill and just left it in some DI, or whatever their mix is? I think I'll try--mb one with Utopia and one with silver.
> 
> I've got the last two blocks for my loop coming and this roll of new PrimoChill UV Blue from frozen staring at me--thoughts of this thread wake me up at night....


Yeah, wermad is/was doing that.

Although I had a thought. Since the exterior of the tubing doesn't normally get wet(other than filling/draining) it would probably be better to plug one end, fill with DI and then plug the other end and let it sit for awhile. This wouldn't simulate flow at all but it would be closest to RL unless someone had the spare parts to piece together an operable loop w/o radiator to simulate heat. Something like this...










I would do it but this is my only pump at the moment and I'm trying to get my first loop completed. This pic is my pump test. And yes the tubing is 1/2x3/4 PrimoChill Tubing.









~Ceadder


----------



## dseg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaseH*
> 
> Just an update since I took my rig apart last night to add a water block to my 285. I knew I was getting some build up but I had no idea how bad it was. The inside of the tubes are solid white. Some pieces look worse than others on the outside but all pieces are affected. First pic is of the inside of one of the tubes. The other with the 3 is left side is suction to the pump, right side is return to resi, and middle is new unused tubing. The tubing in my system is 3 weeks and 3 days old. It has been on distilled water and silver kill coil since day 1. I am not familiar with liter-gallon conversions but my rig uses like 1/3-1/4 gallon of water. So I think I am right at the top end of 1 kill coil being ok. Is there any tubing that won't do this or is there any adverse side effects to running tubing with this stuff in it?


Same problem and my tube looks the same. *** primochill?


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *16ReasonsWhy*
> 
> Has anyone taken a piece of PrimoChill and just left it in some DI, or whatever their mix is? I think I'll try--mb one with Utopia and one with silver.
> 
> I've got the last two blocks for my loop coming and this roll of new PrimoChill UV Blue from frozen staring at me--thoughts of this thread wake me up at night....
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, wermad is/was doing that.
> 
> Although I had a thought. Since the exterior of the tubing doesn't normally get wet(other than filling/draining) it would probably be better to plug one end, fill with DI and then plug the other end and let it sit for awhile. This wouldn't simulate flow at all but it would be closest to RL unless someone had the spare parts to piece together an operable loop w/o radiator to simulate heat. Something like this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would do it but this is my only pump at the moment and I'm trying to get my first loop completed. This pic is my pump test. And yes the tubing is 1/2x3/4 PrimoChill Tubing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
Click to expand...

I have 2 spare XSPC X2O 750 and new clear PrimoChill PrimoFlex PRO LRT, I might have some black laying around too. I'll get the clear up and running tonight.


----------



## Ceadderman

Awesome Possum! GoodInk. +Rep!









~Ceadder


----------



## lowfat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> I have 2 spare XSPC X2O 750 and new clear PrimoChill PrimoFlex PRO LRT, I might have some black laying around too. I'll get the clear up and running tonight.


What are you going to include in the loop? Just the pump + tubing?


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lowfat*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> I have 2 spare XSPC X2O 750 and new clear PrimoChill PrimoFlex PRO LRT, I might have some black laying around too. I'll get the clear up and running tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> What are you going to include in the loop? Just the pump + tubing?
Click to expand...

Yep










I'm going to guess heat has a lot to do with the problem.


----------



## Ceadderman

Nice. Your setup is better than mine. Of course I didn't wish to cut my 4' piece up before finalizing the lengths.









Shouldn't take long without a Radiator to see if heat is the culprit though.









~Ceadder


----------



## Sistum Id

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mandroid*
> 
> Here's my clear Primochill tubing after 2 weeks. I was running distilled water and PT Nuke PHN mixed precisely according to instructions on the bottle. EK Acetal+EN blocks, MCP655, XSPC RX360 rad, XSPC Compression fittings, and Bitspower 150mm tube reservoir. Water in the reservoir was still crystal clear.


That's how my tubing almost looks. My tubing is about 3-4 days old. I noticed last night it was a little less clear. So I drained my system last night and noticed my tubing had a white film wheres the parts of the tubing that are in the compression fittings are clear. I'm running distilled water, no dye or or anything else. Res water is also clear.

Before I changed my tubing, I had been running Feser UV blue clear tubing for 6 months plus with the same hardware except earlier this week I added 2 EK EN blocks and a XSPC RX120 rad. My new parts and current parts were cleaned just like I always clean my watercooling gear. My Thermochill 120.3 rad, MCP655 pump, and 250ml res are almost 5 years old and never had any problems with corrosion.


----------



## Halfdead14

Does Danger Den Dreamflex suffer from this problem as well? I thought I ordered some Primochill LRT but I accidentally ordered DD, did I catch a break or does DD have the same problem?


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Nice. Your setup is better than mine. Of course I didn't wish to cut my 4' piece up before finalizing the lengths.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shouldn't take long without a Radiator to see if heat is the culprit though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


I'm not sure how much heat this pump puts out. It's my bad one I got from the Rasa kit, looks like it is good for something besides making a lot of noise. Turns out I couldn't find any unused black, but I did find some used stuff that was about 6+ months old. I cut it open and found this, like someone said, it looks like a very fine dust, I rubbed some off right one with a q-tip to see what color it was and how thick. As you can see looks like dust too and was very thin but didn't rub off easy.


----------



## Ceadderman

That someone was me with the PrimoChill white.









That Black tubing doesn't look much different.









~Ceadder


----------



## Systemlord

So how do we go about notifying the maker of this defective tubing? It clearly seems that the problem lies in the tubing itself as everyone is getting the same results with different methods using silver, PT Nuke etc... I'll guess this might be another poor product brought to market claiming to be genuine PrimoChill LRT tubing, does anyone have a better hypothesis?


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> So how do we go about notifying the maker of this defective tubing? It clearly seems that the problem lies in the tubing itself as everyone is getting the same results with different methods using silver, PT Nuke etc... I'll guess this might be another poor product brought to market claiming to be genuine PrimoChill LRT tubing, does anyone have a better hypothesis?


I believe(could be mistaken) that other members have had similar issues with other brands. Could be just a bad batch of tubing. Sucks if it isn't but since this stuff isn't made a spool at a time I have to chalk it up to a bad run until more information is brought forth showing otherwise.









~Ceadder


----------



## LuckyDuck69

I think the good news here, if there is any, is that the build up isn't significant. It's not blocking the flow of water to any great degree. And if the layer of residue it leaves... is slick... it may actually help water flow? Idk... I'm just trying to find something good here.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LuckyDuck69*
> 
> I think the good news here, if there is any, is that the build up isn't significant. It's not blocking the flow of water to any great degree. And if the layer of residue it leaves... is slick... it may actually help water flow? Idk... I'm just trying to find something good here.


I think the residue would actually cause friction not a lack of it. Since it doesn't look to be a uniform coating of any specific thickness throughout which appears to me that it would cause an increase of cavitation. In any case it's probably more unsightly than anything else since anyone running clear tubing would probably like it to remain clear for at least 6 months or so. There appears to be no specific timetable as to when the leeching begins. Some people have it happen in a few days, some a few weeks and some over a month. It's still not what PrimoChill advertises and that's where people have an issue I think. I've got white tubing but if it turns yellow that isn't what I bought it for.









~Ceadder


----------



## Raul-7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raul-7*
> 
> If the plasticizer is lipid soluble, wouldn't detergent get rid of it? IIRC, my tubing leached plasticizer during the initial 6-9 month phase and now its clear. I'll confirm once I take down my current loop.


I lied. I cut open a piece of tubing and it was worse than I thought; the whole inner walls were plastered in this stuff.

BTW, like wermad, I'm also using a piece of clear 1/2" ID 5/8" OD Watts tubing [bought from Lowes IIRC] for the past 3 weeks and it has no clouding as of yet. I'm not sure they stock 7/16" ID tubing though?


----------



## ClaytonGFinley

With the Watts stuff, both times i've had clouding, took about a month or so, this was running distilled and a kill coil.


----------



## Sistum Id

Reading the details of this tubing it says it's "Anti-Microbial". What makes it anti-microbial? Is the inside of the tubing coated with this anti-microbial stuff?


----------



## ramkatral

So it seems I brought out all kinda people having my problem. Kinda makes me feel better, to be honest.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sistum Id*
> 
> Reading the details of this tubing it says it's "Anti-Microbial". What makes it anti-microbial? Is the inside of the tubing coated with this anti-microbial stuff?


If you are referring to Danger Den tubing the "Anti-Microbial" is molded in when the tubing is formed.

Click on Features tab.
Quote:


> *Anti-Microbial additive molded in--not added post extrusion!*


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Sistum Id*
> 
> Reading the details of this tubing it says it's "Anti-Microbial". What makes it anti-microbial? Is the inside of the tubing coated with this anti-microbial stuff?
> 
> 
> 
> If you are referring to Danger Den tubing the "Anti-Microbial" is molded in when the tubing is formed.
> 
> Click on Features tab.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> *Anti-Microbial additive molded in--not added post extrusion!*
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that the PC LRT Tubing is also anti-microbial. Since this is the case maybe on *some* of the fails it's user error by using PT Nuke in a line that already has anti-microbials involved. Kind of like taking one french fry that comes with the correct amount of ketchup pre-applied and then covering it with even more of the stuff. It's gonna inevitably be a soggy mess in short order.

Sorry if this example isn't the best, it's what I could come up with at the spur of the moment.









Basically, unless you know the amount of Algaecide used in these tubings it's probably not a good idea to add more, just try to reduce the amount of natural light your system sees with clear tubing. Whereas if you have a dark tube like Black, you don't want to leave it where natural sunlight will contribute to the heat build up in the lines. They use black for solar displays for a reason. It's not for its reflective properties. I don't know about the White tubing but I suppose I'm going to find out though. Another thought I had was that anti-corrosion additives may have a negative effect on the algaecide preloaded into the tubing. So it's something to be aware of. I'm not saying don't use the stuff, just to be aware that the levels used may need to be worked out to lessen the speed at which the tubing clouds.

The Watts tubing clouding however sounds to me like environmental clouding. For one or more reasons listed above. Werms environment may be more reasonable to the Watts tubing than Claytons environment. So some of the clouding going on could be due to these issues. It's difficult to tell from related experiences what the exact issue is, if one is looking in this haystack from the outside looking in.









Obviously this only weeds out a minor amount of instances having issues here but it at least shines a bit of perspective on the issue.









~Ceadder


----------



## ramkatral

You forget that this issue happened to many of us using no biocide at all. I was on water and kill coil only.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Sistum Id*
> 
> Reading the details of this tubing it says it's "Anti-Microbial". What makes it anti-microbial? Is the inside of the tubing coated with this anti-microbial stuff?
> 
> 
> 
> If you are referring to Danger Den tubing the "Anti-Microbial" is molded in when the tubing is formed.
> 
> Click on Features tab.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> *Anti-Microbial additive molded in--not added post extrusion!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty sure that the PC LRT Tubing is also anti-microbial. Since this is the case maybe on *some* of the fails it's user error by using PT Nuke in a line that already has anti-microbials involved. Kind of like taking one french fry that comes with the correct amount of ketchup pre-applied and then covering it with even more of the stuff. It's gonna inevitably be a soggy mess in short order.
> 
> Sorry if this example isn't the best, it's what I could come up with at the spur of the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically, unless you know the amount of Algaecide used in these tubings it's probably not a good idea to add more, just try to reduce the amount of natural light your system sees with clear tubing. Whereas if you have a dark tube like Black, you don't want to leave it where natural sunlight will contribute to the heat build up in the lines. They use black for solar displays for a reason. It's not for its reflective properties. I don't know about the White tubing but I suppose I'm going to find out though. Another thought I had was that anti-corrosion additives may have a negative effect on the algaecide preloaded into the tubing. So it's something to be aware of. I'm not saying don't use the stuff, just to be aware that the levels used may need to be worked out to lessen the speed at which the tubing clouds.
> 
> The Watts tubing clouding however sounds to me like environmental clouding. For one or more reasons listed above. Werms environment may be more reasonable to the Watts tubing than Claytons environment. So some of the clouding going on could be due to these issues. It's difficult to tell from related experiences what the exact issue is, if one is looking in this haystack from the outside looking in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously this only weeds out a minor amount of instances having issues here but it at least shines a bit of perspective on the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramkatral*
> 
> You forget that this issue happened to many of us using no biocide at all. I was on water and kill coil only.





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Obviously this only weeds out *a minor amount of instances* having issues here but it at least shines a bit of perspective on the issue.




















~Ceadder


----------



## opt33

Most antimicrobial tubing uses alphasan (zirconium phosphate based silver ion exchange resin) embedded in walls. While it prevents bacteria/algae from growing on tubing/refrigerator/etc walls (with minimal release of any silver ion into fluid) since it releases silver only by ion exchange via contact with ions from proteins on bacteria,algae, etc, I wouldnt expect antimicrobial tubing to prevent contamination in rad/reservoir/blocks or anywhere but the surface of tubing as it is intended.

And the amount/speed of plasticizer leech may be affected by other variables, but the only way you wont get it, regardless of whether you put antimicrobials in loop or not, is to use inner bore plasticizer free tubing. And if primochill is no longer using inner bore free, then I will find another tubing to use for next purchase.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *opt33*
> 
> Most antimicrobial tubing uses alphasan (zirconium phosphate based silver ion exchange resin) embedded in walls. While it prevents bacteria/algae from growing on tubing/refrigerator/etc walls (with minimal release of any silver ion into fluid) *since it releases silver only by ion exchange via contact with ions from proteins on bacteria,algae, etc,* I wouldnt expect antimicrobial tubing to prevent contamination in rad/reservoir/blocks or anywhere but the surface of tubing as it is intended.


Maybe that is what we are seeing here with the primochill tubing and why it's so varying between builds.


----------



## Ceadderman

Pretty much as I point out, that certain conditions are being met. Just not with all the fancy talk of silver ionization.









Still I am interested to see what that test loop looks like. Because I'm like that I guess.









~Ceadder


----------



## GoodInk

Still clear


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Still clear


Nice.









You might give it a week and if there is no change, try moving it to a source of natural lighting by a window and see what happens then. With the heat thrown off by the pump and the embedded biocide in the tubing you might get the reaction we're looking for.







It needn't be direct sunlight just out of the window should throw off enough ambient light to do the job if I remember the tank in my HS Biology Teacher's room correctly. IIt was never in direct light for very long but it had a Bass in it and the tank had all kinds of algae growing in it. So moving the setup near a window may start the reaction we're looking for.









Cheers.









~Ceadder


----------



## GoodInk

I'm guessing sunlight isn't playing in to it. My black tubing never saw sunlight. I had that stuff installed when I was in Honduras living in a hootch with no windows. I'm planning on running it until I see clouding. I now have the PSU blowing on the res and its keeping it at a good temp, warm but not hot. I'll take a weekly photo and post it here.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> I'm guessing sunlight isn't playing in to it. My black tubing never saw sunlight. I had that stuff installed when I was in Honduras living in a hootch with no windows. I'm planning on running it until I see clouding. I now have the PSU blowing on the res and its keeping it at a good temp, warm but not hot. I'll take a weekly photo and post it here.


Okay cool.









Honduras eh? Considering the term "Hooch", I'm guessing Army?









~Ceadder


----------



## GoodInk

Air Force, but at joint Army base.


----------



## Striknine

I used 4 drops of PT nuke and a silver kill coil in 2 and a half liters of distilled water. My primochill LTR is now showing signs of something forming after 3 to 4 weeks. I assume it is plasticizer after reading this thread. I have not taken the loop apart to check it out yet. Can this stuff clog the waterblocks and is it bad to run my pc until I get new tubing?


----------



## Ceadderman

^^ Do you have a pic?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Air Force, but at joint Army base.


Well if we were living in the 40s' it would be the same thing.







lol

Cool beans though. Thank you for your service.









~Ceadder


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Striknine*
> 
> I used 4 drops of PT nuke and a silver kill coil in 2 and a half liters of distilled water. My primochill LTR is now showing signs of something forming after 3 to 4 weeks. I assume it is plasticizer after reading this thread. I have not taken the loop apart to check it out yet. Can this stuff clog the waterblocks and is it bad to run my pc until I get new tubing?


I pulled my CPU block apart went I drained it for shipping, and I found nothing in it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> ^^ Do you have a pic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Air Force, but at joint Army base.
> 
> 
> 
> Well if we were living in the 40s' it would be the same thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol
> 
> Cool beans though. Thank you for your service.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
Click to expand...

Thank you, and if thinks keep going the way they are, it might be again some day.


----------



## erayser

I lurk a lot in this forum, so I've been trying to read updates on this issue since I'm using some primochill tubing in my rig. However, I should mention that most of my tubing is feser white tubing... but I have a few small length's of clear primochill so I can see if I have micro-bubbles in my system... or if have issues with water or tubing... since I can't see through the white tubing.

I finish my build in mid November and started with distilled water and silver coil. After a week... I had issues with my kill coil getting sucked into the reservoir where pumps were and decided to take the kill coil's out and use E6 clear coolant since E6 was pretty cheap at sidewinders at the time. I've been running E6 for over 2 months... and temps are the same. Anyhow... going back on topic... my primochill appears to be clear still after 2 months. I have a mixture of copper and nickel plated blocks (2 EVGA (swiftech) FTW 580 copper blocks, raystorm copper block, EK mobo copper block, and a EN nickel plated EK ram block). My fittings are all bitspower, koolance QDC's, and sli links for my GPU's. My office faces the afternoon/dusk sun so I get a fair amount of sunlight in my office, but I have blinds to block direct sunlight. Since I live in San Diego, it can get pretty warm in my office... but it can get pretty cold here to in the winter. Also, I bought the primochill tubing from FCPU.

Not sure if this will help since I am not using 100% primochill in my loop... but just wanted to contribute what I have.

I photoshop'd a picture of the monkey with a gun sticker... so you can see what image you're seeing behind the primochill tubing.


----------



## Systemlord

This clouding issue seems to have popped up out of nowhere recently, we need to make the manufacturers aware of the issue or this will go on until no one touches Primochill tubing anymore! Then Primochill will scratch their heads as to why no one buys their tubing any longer.


----------



## Scorpion49

I've used 4 different colors of the LRT in the last few months and they have all been really really bad after only a week or two. Red was the worst. Only running distilled+killcoil here.


----------



## Sistum Id

Here is my clear Primochill that's about a week old that I got from FrozenCPU with almost 24/7 use. No additives or dye, just straight distilled water.


Here is my Feser clear UV blue that was used in my system for about 6 months with only distilled water and no coil or additives.


I'm going to send off an email tonight and see what they say.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sistum Id*
> 
> Here is my clear Primochill that's about a week old that I got from FrozenCPU with almost 24/7 use. No additives or dye, just straight distilled water.
> 
> I'm going to send off an email tonight and see what they say.


This happened to me in the same time span. I left a review on amazon (one star) where I got it so I'm hoping "Tyler Industries" can read this too. The cheap stuff I bought is holding ok. Its clouding up a bit but not as severe as the primochill. I might just go with some colored tube from another brand. Even the colored Primochill tube is reported to have plaster build up.


----------



## lowfat

The Primoflex that everyone is having a problem with, where did you buy it from?


----------



## Angrybutcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> This happened to me in the same time span. I left a review on amazon (one star) where I got it so I'm hoping "Tyler Industries" can read this too. The cheap stuff I bought is holding ok. Its clouding up a bit but not as severe as the primochill. I might just go with some colored tube from another brand. Even the colored Primochill tube is reported to have plaster build up.


The green I've ran for months is still holding well. There's a very slight haze on the interior, but nothing like in this thread. I'll be swapping it for some new blue I got, maybe tomorrow if I feel ambitious. We'll see how it plays.


----------



## Sistum Id

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> This happened to me in the same time span. I left a review on amazon (one star) where I got it so I'm hoping "Tyler Industries" can read this too. The cheap stuff I bought is holding ok. Its clouding up a bit but not as severe as the primochill. I might just go with some colored tube from another brand. Even the colored Primochill tube is reported to have plaster build up.


I thought of doing color tubing but I wanted to do some color experimentation this time around. Too bad my tubing is messed up to use dye now. I wanted to do Feser but nobody sells CLEAR feser tubing, only thing close is the UV blue. I checked Feser offical website and they want almost 30 bucks for shipping for 10-12 feet. Almost 60 bucks total for 10-12 feet.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lowfat*
> 
> The Primoflex that everyone is having a problem with, where did you buy it from?


FrozenCPU


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> ^^ Do you have a pic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


I just started on Friday, I posted a pics a couple pages back.


----------



## GoodInk

I just noticed something with the clear tubing compared to my black tubing. The powder in my black tubing was a darker color, the clear is white. Does anyone have any of the other colors, wipe it with w q-tip to see the color. Maybe it is the tubing being eroded.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> ^^ Do you have a pic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just started on Friday, I posted a pics a couple pages back.
Click to expand...

That was for striknine. Hence the "^^" tag before I axed the question.









@ tubing question, mine was kind of yellowed but definitely just settled dust since it was on one side of the tube more than the other.









~Ceader


----------



## Ceadderman

Nvm sorry bout double post Huddler borked up my edit.









~Ceadder


----------



## ramkatral

Mine was from frozencpu.


----------



## asakurahao

oh crap. I just order 17'' primochill from jab-tech.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *asakurahao*
> 
> oh crap. I just order 17'' primochill from jab-tech.


Clear?

I wouldn't worry about it just yet. If you can, try testing a bit of it and see if it clouds up before you cut into the whole length. If it doesn't no worries, if it does then you can maybe return the unused portion.









~Ceadder


----------



## DevilDriver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Its from Home Depot, "Watts" and its pretty inexpensive @ $4 for 10' amd $6 for 20'. Its a bit rigid but you could probably bend a bit by heating it up or dipping it in hot water. Tbh, the test piece of tube is a bit more flexible. I guess once under some warm liquid (when gaming) it softens up a bit. The primary thing its still transparent but I'll know for sure once I pull it out and inspect it thoroughly.


I have a 4ft section of that in my loop and it is the most cloudy section.
Took it about a month and you can not see through it at all. My tygon is hazy but you can see through it.

Hm there is nothing floating in my res. wonder how bad this is on my loop.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DevilDriver*
> 
> I have a 4ft section of that in my loop and it is the most cloudy section.
> Took it about a month and you can not see through it at all. My tygon is hazy but you can see through it.
> Hm there is nothing floating in my res. wonder how bad this is on my loop.


Mine is holding ok, used for two weeks. I've broken down my loop atm in preparation of my new setup so its not being used. I'll give it about a month to see how it holds. If its too cloudy, then I'll go with some colored tube. I am having reservations about going with colored primochill but they do have the best price. Though as the old saying goes: "Cheap, can get expensive"


----------



## asakurahao

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Clear?
> I wouldn't worry about it just yet. If you can, try testing a bit of it and see if it clouds up before you cut into the whole length. If it doesn't no worries, if it does then you can maybe return the unused portion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


white + red. I am kind of worry after looking at this picture


----------



## Ceadderman

The Red may be a possibility of it but there is no hard evidence one way or the other about the white doing so. So check the Red.









I have a question for everyone... are you flushing out your Rads with tap water, or are you flushing with Distilled. It could be that the tap/vinegar & distilled rinse is causing an adverse effect on the tubing from calcite build up being flushed through the system. Not sure since I'm not there but might this be what's going on?









~Ceadder


----------



## Epicgamers

Hi all, I am a long time lurker of this forum.

I used to have the Danger Den DreamFlex clear tubing. After about a month of running it with just plain distilled water and silver coil, it got really bad that it gunk up my CPU block and I am forced to redo all of my tubing with Primochill and it seem to be holding up okay after a few weeks. Primochill seem not to be the only one with the problems. I would not recommend clear DreamFlex. Here is a picture of how bad it is.


----------



## lowfat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Epicgamers*
> 
> Hi all, I am a long time lurker of this forum.
> I used to have the Danger Den DreamFlex clear tubing. After about a month of running it with just plain distilled water and silver coil, it got really bad that it gunk up my CPU block and I am forced to redo all of my tubing with Primochill and it seem to be holding up okay after a few weeks. Primochill seem not to be the only one with the problems. I would not recommend clear DreamFlex. Here is a picture of how bad it is.


Thanks. I've always been curious about DreamFlex.


----------



## wermad

meh, so no clear tube is immune to the dreaded cloudiness. That's it, I'm going color when my tube goes bad (I give it about a month, two tops







).


----------



## lowfat

I don't have clouding issues with my old Primochill LRT. I've always bought it from NCIX. My new rig is using new Primoflex from NCIX as well as some from PPCS.


----------



## Striknine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> That was for striknine. Hence the "^^" tag before I axed the question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @ tubing question, mine was kind of yellowed but definitely just settled dust since it was on one side of the tube more than the other.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceader


Ah sorry no picture yet. I will take a picture of the inside of the tube when I get a replacement.


----------



## Epicgamers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> meh, so no clear tube is immune to the dreaded cloudiness. That's it, I'm going color when my tube goes bad (I give it about a month, two tops
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).


I am done with plain-old distilled water.. too much of a hassle, it need silver coils, concentrated biocide, etc. That why I am using Ice Dragon cooling now. Even if my tube cloud again I won't see it, cause Ice Dragon is white anyway.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Epicgamers*
> 
> I am done with plain-old distilled water.. too much of a hassle, it need silver coils, concentrated biocide, etc. That why I am using Ice Dragon cooling now. Even if my tube cloud again I won't see it anyway, cause Ice Dragon is white anyway.


Milky









Mayhems has a pastel color line up. Kinda tempted but I don't think blue led fans + yellow (or orange) pastel will mix well


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lowfat*
> 
> I don't have clouding issues with my old Primochill LRT. I've always bought it from NCIX. My new rig is using new Primoflex from NCIX as well as some from PPCS.


I have just installed new tubing, Primoflex LRT from NCIX. UV Blue. Clouding after two weeks is evident from the outside.

My GPU loop had Clearflex 60 with Zalman ZMG100. No clouding. Ran loop without any maintenance for over a year. Some portions yellowed (tubing itself, not a deposit)


----------



## Zero4549

As it turns out I've been running with Feser 1 Green and/or Acid Green in various clear tubing for about two years. It has never once gotten as bad as any of these pics, and I only change things up every 6 months or longer. Worst case, my clear duralene got slightly hazy and had a slight green tint after the coolant had been sitting stagnant and exposed to outside air for about a month, after running in the loop for 3 or 4 months. So much for coolant being the cause of horrible gunk buildups.


----------



## Ceadderman

No answer for the Radiator flush?

Leme try again then...

How do you guys approach your flush. Do you do it manually with Tap or mechanically using a filter and distilled? Cause I had a thought when checking out Martin's blog and there is a pic of a Chip Block being flushed with Tap water, followed by a YT vid of a Corroded and Calicified Radiator and a WCMods YT vid of how he does it using a small fountan pump, a Bucket and a filter. Which got me to thinking that maybe some of the cloudiness might be residual from the flushing of the Radiator. I know some people just use straight tap water, while some use Tap and Rinse w/Distilled and some use Vinegar mixed with distilled to rinse the left over Tap out of the system.

Also, to muddy this up a little more are your Rads new or used? Used could explain things some more if the method used was simply straight Tap water. Where I live the water is so high in mineral content that the Tea Kettle is calcified. It only gets filled via the Pur Filter that is on the Tap, but it's absolutely horrendous. It's to the point where the lid on the kettle sticks to the opening sometimes. So you know I'm not gonna be flushing with Tap here.

So if you would it would be much appreciated. Also relate any experiences regarding your Tap water as it may lead to figuring this out.









~Ceadder


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> No answer for the Radiator flush?
> Leme try again then...
> How do you guys approach your flush. Do you do it manually with Tap or mechanically using a filter and distilled? Cause I had a thought when checking out Martin's blog and there is a pic of a Chip Block being flushed with Tap water, followed by a YT vid of a Corroded and Calicified Radiator and a WCMods YT vid of how he does it using a small fountan pump, a Bucket and a filter. Which got me to thinking that maybe some of the cloudiness might be residual from the flushing of the Radiator. I know some people just use straight tap water, while some use Tap and Rinse w/Distilled and some use Vinegar mixed with distilled to rinse the left over Tap out of the system.
> Also, to muddy this up a little more are your Rads new or used? Used could explain things some more if the method used was simply straight Tap water. Where I live the water is so high in mineral content that the Tea Kettle is calcified. It only gets filled via the Pur Filter that is on the Tap, but it's absolutely horrendous. It's to the point where the lid on the kettle sticks to the opening sometimes. So you know I'm not gonna be flushing with Tap here.
> So if you would it would be much appreciated. Also relate any experiences regarding your Tap water as it may lead to figuring this out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


When I first get components i flush with running tap water for a good 15-30 min. After that I flush them out with distilled and vinegar, and then again with straight distilled.

When cleaning the loop, I use straight distilled, distilled + vinegar, straight distilled.

I use an air compressor to force ALL the liquid out at the end of each flush.


----------



## AddictedGamer93

Great, what tubing do I use now....


----------



## LuckyDuck69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AddictedGamer93*
> 
> Great, what tubing do I use now....


^^ we should create a "question of the month" award for this ^^


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> No answer for the Radiator flush?
> 
> Leme try again then...
> 
> How do you guys approach your flush. Do you do it manually with Tap or mechanically using a filter and distilled? Cause I had a thought when checking out Martin's blog and there is a pic of a Chip Block being flushed with Tap water, followed by a YT vid of a Corroded and Calicified Radiator and a WCMods YT vid of how he does it using a small fountan pump, a Bucket and a filter. Which got me to thinking that maybe some of the cloudiness might be residual from the flushing of the Radiator. I know some people just use straight tap water, while some use Tap and Rinse w/Distilled and some use Vinegar mixed with distilled to rinse the left over Tap out of the system.
> 
> Also, to muddy this up a little more are your Rads new or used? Used could explain things some more if the method used was simply straight Tap water. Where I live the water is so high in mineral content that the Tea Kettle is calcified. It only gets filled via the Pur Filter that is on the Tap, but it's absolutely horrendous. It's to the point where the lid on the kettle sticks to the opening sometimes. So you know I'm not gonna be flushing with Tap here.
> 
> So if you would it would be much appreciated. Also relate any experiences regarding your Tap water as it may lead to figuring this out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Running hot tap water for 30 mins, filtering the water coming out with a paper towel to see if there is any discoloration or any other crap. Then distilled 5 times.


----------



## Big Elf

I've just removed a small section of black Primochill PrimoFlex Pro LRT (3/8" ID - 5/8" OD) that was bought last May and fitted in September so it's had 5 months with deionised water, silver kill coils and a drop of Copper Sulphate. There's no deposits at all. Fortunately I bought more than twice as much as I needed so still have enough left to redo the loop if needed.

All components were flushed with tap water with the rads (2 old, 1 new) having at least 60 minutes flushing time and the blocks were cleaned with lemon juice and salt. I never bother doing a final flush with deionised as it's never caused problems over the last few years.


----------



## opt33

My primochill pro lrt uv blue has been in my loop for 2 years with distilled and PT nuke. It is still clear, no plasticizer deposit in the inner bore.

No question primochill pro recent tubing has more plasticizer looking at those pics. unfortunate.


----------



## rdfloyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> No answer for the Radiator flush?
> Leme try again then...
> How do you guys approach your flush. Do you do it manually with Tap or mechanically using a filter and distilled? Cause I had a thought when checking out Martin's blog and there is a pic of a Chip Block being flushed with Tap water, followed by a YT vid of a Corroded and Calicified Radiator and a WCMods YT vid of how he does it using a small fountan pump, a Bucket and a filter. Which got me to thinking that maybe some of the cloudiness might be residual from the flushing of the Radiator. I know some people just use straight tap water, while some use Tap and Rinse w/Distilled and some use Vinegar mixed with distilled to rinse the left over Tap out of the system.
> Also, to muddy this up a little more are your Rads new or used? Used could explain things some more if the method used was simply straight Tap water. Where I live the water is so high in mineral content that the Tea Kettle is calcified. It only gets filled via the Pur Filter that is on the Tap, but it's absolutely horrendous. It's to the point where the lid on the kettle sticks to the opening sometimes. So you know I'm not gonna be flushing with Tap here.
> So if you would it would be much appreciated. Also relate any experiences regarding your Tap water as it may lead to figuring this out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


I flushed my radiator out with hot water for about 10 minutes, then rinsed well with distilled. No gunk was left in it (not that I could see).

I have Feser white tube currently, so I may drain my loop this weekend, cut off a small section of tube, then post back here with what I see. Since it's white, I can't tell if there is any plasticizer, but my water is as clear as the day I added it.

Also, I run a Rasa Kit, with 1 kill coil.


----------



## jeffblute

I just got into water cooling and stuck some black LRT promo in my rig before seeing all these problems, I will have to check my loop this weekend and see if I notice anything.

I rinsed the entire loop with distilled 2 - 3 times and also checked if there was any sediment each rinse, Not a single speck showed up.

*Edit*
Forgot to add this:
Rasa rx 360 kit
Distilled and killcoil
Purchased from Performance PC


----------



## lowfat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> I have just installed new tubing, Primoflex LRT from NCIX. UV Blue. Clouding after two weeks is evident from the outside.
> My GPU loop had Clearflex 60 with Zalman ZMG100. No clouding. Ran loop without any maintenance for over a year. Some portions yellowed (tubing itself, not a deposit)


Did you use any additives?


----------



## Raul-7

Honest question, why are people with opaque (ie. black or white) tubing concerned? I can understand why translucent tubing users are annoyed; but I have black tubing and I couldn't give a flying hoot how much plasticizer is formed.

BTW, has anyone tried Tygon beverage tubing or Tygon plasticizer-free tubing (ie. it is not available in 7/16" ID only 1/2"ID-3/4"OD)


----------



## ramkatral

Because we are concerned that it will start to cake up our blocks.


----------



## (sic)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramkatral*
> 
> Because we are concerned that it will start to cake up our blocks.


Yes concerned, but has anyone experienced blockage caused by plasticizer?


----------



## Angrybutcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *(sic)*
> 
> Yes concerned, but has anyone experienced blockage caused by plasticizer?


With this recent issue, I don't believe so. A majority of the gunk issues people saw in the past and blamed on pre-mix and dyes however, are likely plasticizer and not the fluid failing.


----------



## opt33

Plasticizer will not gunk up your blocks to any significant degree, or at least never did mine. 10 years ago til 4-5 years ago, we ALL had plasticizer in tubing, it was the norm, it is just ugly. But then again, I have never had a problem with using dyes, or antifreeze gunking either, I have yet to see any waterblock gunking on mine, except the normal black oxidation of copper which is cleaned off with vinegar/salt or ketchup (vinegar/salt).

First pic from 2007 of my build with tygon 3603, the king of plasticizer leech, my loop after 3 months. The fluid looks cloudy, but it was not, it is just white precipitate lining the tubing, this is with distilled water, pt nuke, 10% clear antifreeze. My blocks remained clean.

Second pic is my rebuild 2007-2008 after ~ 6 months with tygon 43x beverage tubing plasticizer free, had blue dye G11 + 10% antifreeze + pt nuke. This loop stayed crystal clear, also did not gunk up my blocks.


----------



## Capt Proton

ZMG100 is an additive.


----------



## Epicgamers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *(sic)*
> 
> Yes concerned, but has anyone experienced blockage caused by plasticizer?


When my Danger Den DreamFlex started to leech. I could see some gunk in my CPU block but it didn't affect my temperature to much yet, it just look nasty.


----------



## gelatin_factory

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raul-7*
> 
> Honest question, why are people with opaque (ie. black or white) tubing concerned? I can understand why translucent tubing users are annoyed; but I have black tubing and I couldn't give a flying hoot how much plasticizer is formed.
> BTW, has anyone tried Tygon beverage tubing or Tygon plasticizer-free tubing (ie. it is not available in 7/16" ID only 1/2"ID-3/4"OD)


Also, this is OCN, we have quite a few perfectionists (I am not among them). To me it's like saying you should be happy with a big scratch on the inside of your case if only you can see it. Some people will care, some people will say it doesn't matter. To each their own, I say


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AddictedGamer93*
> 
> Great, what tubing do I use now....


I tried the stuff from Home Depot and its cheap holds up a bit better. If you have any reservations, contact the seller or store you got your tube from and work out a refund or exchange/credit. There are quite a few other brands out there as well and you can always go colored tubing if you don't want to risk clear tube.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LuckyDuck69*
> 
> ^^ we should create a "question of the month" award for this ^^


I don't see any harm asking and let alone having a general concern.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Angrybutcher*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *(sic)*
> 
> Yes concerned, but has anyone experienced blockage caused by plasticizer?
> 
> 
> 
> With this recent issue, I don't believe so. A majority of the gunk issues people saw in the past and blamed on pre-mix and dyes however, are likely plasticizer and not the fluid failing.
Click to expand...

Some of those pre-mixed kind of earned that reputation. Personally, I wouldn't run a dye cause they're too expensive. I could get a couple bottle of McCormick's food coloring for less and it wouldn't harm my loop. Still not into the who dye fad though. To each their own.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gelatin_factory*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Raul-7*
> 
> Honest question, why are people with opaque (ie. black or white) tubing concerned? I can understand why translucent tubing users are annoyed; but I have black tubing and I couldn't give a flying hoot how much plasticizer is formed.
> BTW, has anyone tried Tygon beverage tubing or Tygon plasticizer-free tubing (ie. it is not available in 7/16" ID only 1/2"ID-3/4"OD)
> 
> 
> 
> Also, this is OCN, we have quite a few perfectionists (I am not among them). To me it's like saying you should be happy with a big scratch on the inside of your case if only you can see it. Some people will care, some people will say it doesn't matter. To each their own, I say
Click to expand...

Perfectionist here, if it don't look good to me it don't look good to anyone.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *AddictedGamer93*
> 
> Great, what tubing do I use now....
> 
> 
> 
> I tried the stuff from Home Depot and its cheap holds up a bit better. If you have any reservations, contact the seller or store you got your tube from and work out a refund or exchange/credit. There are quite a few other brands out there as well and you can always go colored tubing if you don't want to risk clear tube.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *LuckyDuck69*
> 
> ^^ we should create a "question of the month" award for this ^^
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see any harm asking and let alone having a general concern.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear if I go with the Homes stuff, is not bad. I'll stick with my White tubing for the moment though. Cost me about the same or less but you know the specifics of that werm.









+1. Agreed. No harm in asking questions. The harm is in not asking questions and going about like you know all.









~Ceadder


----------



## ff02

FYI, the PrimoChill LRT from Koolertek is at least 8 months old (maybe more), so any recent problems in production runs won't be a part of what is sold there. That's what happens when you buy more than you can sell in a certain time frame, though with this news, its probably a good thing.


----------



## iCrap

I have Primochill blue... how do i see if its got plasticizer without taking apart the loop? ive been running for about a month now... distilled water and a killcoil.

EDIT: Yes, i think it has plasticized... i held up a flashlight to both by original tube and my new tube (i put one in like last week) the new one is much clearer, the old one is cloudy sortof and i can see some crap on the inside. Oh well


----------



## Angrybutcher

The tubing will look very clouded if you have the issue, almost opaque.


----------



## iCrap

^ Yea, i edited my post.


----------



## rakunSA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ff02*
> 
> FYI, the PrimoChill LRT from Koolertek is at least 8 months old (maybe more), so any recent problems in production runs won't be a part of what is sold there. That's what happens when you buy more than you can sell in a certain time frame, though with this news, its probably a good thing.


how do you know this?


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rakunSA*
> 
> how do you know this?


I think his family owns Koolertek or something like that. Someone noted that and the member mentioned he's "in the business".


----------



## rakunSA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> I think his family owns Koolertek or something like that. Someone noted that and the member mentioned he's "in the business".


oh ok. so the stuff on amazon that you bought is bad as well?

i emailed jab-tech to see when the primochill they have was made. hopefully they have good news!


----------



## Angrybutcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> I think his family owns Koolertek or something like that.


^ that


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rakunSA*
> 
> oh ok. so the stuff on amazon that you bought is bad as well?
> i emailed jab-tech to see when the primochill they have was made. hopefully they have good news!


Yup, bought mine from amazon. I left a one star review and a warning about the clear tube.

I'm still going forward with my cheap Home Depot tube. I haven't decided yet on what to replace it with in the future. I like Feser but its pricey tbh.


----------



## GoodInk

Question for the owners of the clear Primochill running dye. Does you tubing no look really clear after you added the dye? Mine looks like crap, almost like it as dust and finger prints on it. I've tried wiping it down with a damp cloth and it didn't help.

Edit; I'm thinking I might be starting to see some clouding on the test set up or it could just be me not being happy because I don't have the glass looking tubing in my case that I want.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Question for the owners of the clear Primochill running dye. Does you tubing no look really clear after you added the dye? Mine looks like crap, almost like it as dust and finger prints on it. I've tried wiping it down with a damp cloth and it didn't help.


Are you asking about the exterior of the tube? Not much with clear tube, its noticeable on colored tube like black, red, and white (my personal experience).


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Question for the owners of the clear Primochill running dye. Does you tubing no look really clear after you added the dye? Mine looks like crap, almost like it as dust and finger prints on it. I've tried wiping it down with a damp cloth and it didn't help.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you asking about the exterior of the tube? Not much with clear tube, its noticeable on colored tube like black, red, and white (my personal experience).
Click to expand...

Yeah, the outside.

This is what its looking like.









But I must say using a flash and a couple little tweaks it looks good in the pics. Now that posses a question. Have we all got are hopes up on something because of all the great photographers we have on here?


----------



## kazenagi

I got some new Primochill LRT clear from PPC today and it was completely different from my old primochill. The newer tubing from PPC was extremely soft and had a purple tint, the 3/8 5/8 tubing just slid on the fittings while my old tubing needed some grunt and was crystal clear instead of purplishly clear.


----------



## Systemlord

Why hasn't a Primochill rep chimed in by now? Do they care?


----------



## wermad

Guy on ebay selling a 20' roll of Tygon "Beverage" tube for a good price ($25-27), he's got some listed for a 10' if anyone wants to by a guinea pig







:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-20-Foot-Roll-TYGON-B-43-3-3-8-ID-1-2-OD-Beverage-Crystal-Clear-Tubing-Soft-/130590311536?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e67ca0470


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *rakunSA*
> 
> oh ok. so the stuff on amazon that you bought is bad as well?
> i emailed jab-tech to see when the primochill they have was made. hopefully they have good news!
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, bought mine from amazon. I left a one star review and a warning about the clear tube.
> 
> I'm still going forward with my cheap Home Depot tube. I haven't decided yet on what to replace it with in the future. I like Feser but its pricey tbh.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the thing to continue with if the cheap stuff isn't clouding up or at the same rate. That's what I would go with if I were using clear tubing anyway.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Question for the owners of the clear Primochill running dye. Does you tubing no look really clear after you added the dye? Mine looks like crap, almost like it as dust and finger prints on it. I've tried wiping it down with a damp cloth and it didn't help.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you asking about the exterior of the tube? Not much with clear tube, its noticeable on colored tube like black, red, and white (my personal experience).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, the outside.
> 
> This is what its looking like.
> *snip*
> 
> But I must say using a flash and a couple little tweaks it looks good in the pics. Now that posses a question. Have we all got are hopes up on something because of all the great photographers we have on here?
> *snip*
Click to expand...

I don't think so. I think some of it has to do with how you handle your tubing and are your hands clean when you do it.

I have two different photos taken with a webcam...



















The first one I didn't realize I should use something to protect the tubing from the Collar of my Compression fitting. If you have Black tubing it's not that big a deal but you'll still notice it. With White tubing however.









The second one I wrapped some silicon tape (you can see the stuff on the outlet tubing







)over the tube so that it takes the discoloration and not the tubing. I would suggest in the future if you don't wish to see prints of using some gloves and make sure they don't have the powder on them. That powder will get everywhere if you aren't careful. And even when you are.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Why hasn't a Primochill rep chimed in by now? Do they care?


I'm wondering this myself. Do we have a Primochill Rep here? If so, they have to know this thread exists by now.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Guy on ebay selling a 20' roll of Tygon "Beverage" tube for a good price ($25-27), he's got some listed for a 10' if anyone wants to by a guinea pig
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-20-Foot-Roll-TYGON-B-43-3-3-8-ID-1-2-OD-Beverage-Crystal-Clear-Tubing-Soft-/130590311536?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e67ca0470


That's rather spendy for tubing bruh. $2.50-$2.70 a foot? No thanks. Just checked out Koolertek's site. $1.95 for Primochill and Feser. If it really is 8 months old, that's a pretty good deal. Still tubing doesn't last forever if it's in a humid environment. Not bad mouthing anyone, just sayin that tubing will dry out just like anything else. And then it also depends on how much of the stuff they have in stock. As many water coolers as this place has I don't think that will last long based on just pricing alone.









I seeeeeee you werm.









~Ceadder


----------



## crackerssss

So are we safe to buy tubing? I want a RASA kit but this thread puts me off so badly.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crackerssss*
> 
> So are we safe to buy tubing? I want a RASA kit but this thread puts me off so badly.


Rasa kits, though great, give you cheap arse tubing, everyone who knows about this great kits will tell you that the tube (and pump) are few of drawbacks. Not a biggie though since there are several options for you. Atm, people are having issues with Primochill clear (and some other brands).


----------



## crackerssss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Rasa kits, though great, give you cheap arse tubing, everyone who knows about this great kits will tell you that the tube (and pump) are few of drawbacks. Not a biggie though since there are several options for you. Atm, people are having issues with Primochill clear (and some other brands).


I know about the tubing; I planned to buy Primo tubing with my kit. Is the RASA pump that bad? I don't plan on doing more then my cpu+gpu. *edit: one gpu now I know I can't WC my Dirt3 6950 :c*
I want red but I saw a photo of it going pink, so lame!


----------



## TPE-331

This why I only buy my Primo LRT from FrozenCPU. Never ever had a problem with Primo when I get it from them.


----------



## ff02

The stuff at Koolertek lives in a warehouse that isn't humid, as its in Texas. Humidity isn't an issue. Even during winter, the temp doesn't drop below 55 degrees where its kept, and at the warmest out there it is 75. Temp and humidity isn't really an issue. The tubing is soft and bendable as it should be.


----------



## ff02

Double post.


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> That's rather spendy for tubing bruh. $2.50-$2.70 a foot? No thanks.
> ~Ceadder


You know windows has a built in calculator, right?

20' for $27 = $1.35/ft

No price was given for the 10' piece.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crackerssss*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Rasa kits, though great, give you cheap arse tubing, everyone who knows about this great kits will tell you that the tube (and pump) are few of drawbacks. Not a biggie though since there are several options for you. Atm, people are having issues with Primochill clear (and some other brands).
> 
> 
> 
> I know about the tubing; I planned to buy Primo tubing with my kit. Is the RASA pump that bad? I don't plan on doing more then my cpu+gpu. *edit: one gpu now I know I can't WC my Dirt3 6950 :c*
> I want red but I saw a photo of it going pink, so lame!
Click to expand...

Some of the pumps can make a rattle noise, but XSPC has been really good about replacing them if it does.


----------



## jackofhearts495

My inside of my white Primochill started to yellow within a few weeks of running my loop. Distilled + kill coil in a Rasa240 kit.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackofhearts495*
> 
> My inside of my white Primochill started to yellow within a few weeks of running my loop. Distilled + kill coil in a Rasa240 kit.


Sucks but Whites turn yellow. It's probably heat that is the contributing factor in this regard.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> That's rather spendy for tubing bruh. $2.50-$2.70 a foot? No thanks.
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know windows has a built in calculator, right?
> 
> 20' for $27 = $1.35/ft
> 
> No price was given for the 10' piece.
Click to expand...

I did mental math for the 10' piece and at $27 that's $2.70 a foot.

Now the 20' piece I will just chalk up to misreading it. I'm pretty sure the price was given for both, since $25-$27 was mentioned. But I could be wrong.









As far as the Windows calculator goes I only drag it out of Menu if I feel I need to. Don't know why you would have to have a superiority complex about it but that's between you and your Windows Calculator I guess.









~Ceadder


----------



## jackofhearts495

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Sucks but Whites turn yellow. It's probably heat that is the contributing factor in this regard.


That's weird. My loops is always so frost... I don't even bother overclocking my 2500k. Never gets above 38C in Prime95, and the air coming from my rad is also so chilly







Ah well. It's the inside, not the outside.

Oh, and someone (a few pages back) mentioned dirty, white Primochill tubing... I had the same problem after ordering a few feet from Aquatuning.us. Lots of black marks on the tubing. Probably just poorly handled, but there were a lot of sections of the tubing I couldn't use becaues of it.


----------



## GoodInk

Are you a smoker?


----------



## ff02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackofhearts495*
> 
> That's weird. My loops is always so frost... I don't even bother overclocking my 2500k. Never gets above 38C in Prime95, and the air coming from my rad is also so chilly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah well. It's the inside, not the outside.
> Oh, and someone (a few pages back) mentioned dirty, white Primochill tubing... I had the same problem after ordering a few feet from Aquatuning.us. Lots of black marks on the tubing. Probably just poorly handled, but there were a lot of sections of the tubing I couldn't use becaues of it.


ArtiClean will remove them , in my experience. Its probably not poor handling on the part of the seller, the tubing has blemishes out of the box. I've cleaned a lot of that tubing before shipping.


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> As far as the Windows calculator goes I only drag it out of Menu if I feel I need to. Don't know why you would have to have a superiority complex about it but that's between you and your Windows Calculator I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Not a superiority complex. Just making light. If my intent was to flame, you would certainly know it.


----------



## jackofhearts495

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Are you a smoker?


Not sure if this is a serious question, but no









Air is nice and clean, filtered 24/7. Not that it'd matter, I don't think.


----------



## lowfat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Guy on ebay selling a 20' roll of Tygon "Beverage" tube for a good price ($25-27), he's got some listed for a 10' if anyone wants to by a guinea pig
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-20-Foot-Roll-TYGON-B-43-3-3-8-ID-1-2-OD-Beverage-Crystal-Clear-Tubing-Soft-/130590311536?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e67ca0470


Ordered. This is pretty much the only clear Tygon I have yet to try.


----------



## wermad

Here's the 10' roll, ~$17 for 10':

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130631942804?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Yeah, the 20' was the best deal. I think that was the last one









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lowfat*
> 
> Ordered. This is pretty much the only clear Tygon I have yet to try.


Let us know how it fairs? If it works great, I may order some









btw, Ceadder, that was a 20' roll I listed first, so its cheaper ~$1.35/ft









double btw: I didn't see any other size other than 3/8x1/2,







for me, that's what I'm using


----------



## rakunSA

i heard back from jab-tech. they said that their primochill is all about 2-3 months old. which means that it's probably bad tubing :/


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ff02*
> 
> The stuff at Koolertek lives in a warehouse that isn't humid, as its in Texas. Humidity isn't an issue. Even during winter, the temp doesn't drop below 55 degrees where its kept, and at the warmest out there it is 75. Temp and humidity isn't really an issue. The tubing is soft and bendable as it should be.


Thanks for the info. It looks like you guys offer the best deal on Feser tube (though 3/8x1/2).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rakunSA*
> 
> i heard back from jab-tech. they said that their primochill is all about 2-3 months old. which means that it's probably bad tubing :/


Let's keep chipping away. I'm going to try to find a way to contact Primochill directly to let them know what is going on. I'm sure we can get a manufacturer to notice, just like the ek nickel incident (whether they will address it is up in the air tbh).


----------



## Angrybutcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Let's keep chipping away. I'm going to try to find a way to contact Primochill directly to let them know what is going on. I'm sure we can get a manufacturer to notice, just like the ek nickel incident (whether they will address it is up in the air tbh).


I sent an email to FrozenCPU regarding my tubing order from a few weeks ago, to see if they know their manufacture date on the bulk tubing they have. We'll see if I get a response as I did not with my last inquiry about a future order (not related to tubing).


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Here's the 10' roll, ~$17 for 10':
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/130631942804?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
> 
> Yeah, the 20' was the best deal. I think that was the last one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lowfat*
> 
> Ordered. This is pretty much the only clear Tygon I have yet to try.
> 
> 
> 
> Let us know how it fairs? If it works great, I may order some
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> btw, Ceadder, that was a 20' roll I listed first, so its cheaper ~$1.35/ft
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> double btw: I didn't see any other size other than 3/8x1/2,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for me, that's what I'm using
Click to expand...

yeah I saw that. Too bad I'm going large diameter tubing. Well okay not too bad. Cause everyone knows the ladies love large hose.







heheh

Although that does account for the price to some degree. 1/2" tubing is typically more expensive as you kno.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Angrybutcher*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Let's keep chipping away. I'm going to try to find a way to contact Primochill directly to let them know what is going on. I'm sure we can get a manufacturer to notice, just like the ek nickel incident (whether they will address it is up in the air tbh).
> 
> 
> 
> I sent an email to FrozenCPU regarding my tubing order from a few weeks ago, to see if they know their manufacture date on the bulk tubing they have. We'll see if I get a response as I did not with my last inquiry about a future order (not related to tubing).
Click to expand...

I don't know how willing Frozen will be to step in here after they were treated in another thread. I'm not knockin anyone just pointing out that OCN wasn't exactly friendly to the one guy that did step up regarding the issue.









Would be absolutely cool if he did make the attempt though.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> As far as the Windows calculator goes I only drag it out of Menu if I feel I need to. Don't know why you would have to have a superiority complex about it but that's between you and your Windows Calculator I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not a superiority complex. Just making light. If my intent was to flame, you would certainly know it.
Click to expand...

Ah okay, no worries. The net can be rather exasperating at times because the written word can get taken out of context pretty easily.









~Ceadder


----------



## Angrybutcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I don't know how willing Frozen will be to step in here after they were treated in another thread. I'm not knockin anyone just pointing out that OCN wasn't exactly friendly to the one guy that did step up regarding the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would be absolutely cool if he did make the attempt though.


I didn't ask for them to respond, just an inquiry to see if they knew the manufacture date as there may be a "defect" in the tubing from certain periods. I did mention OCN, but said that we were investigating and trying to gather data to see if we can get it fixed by the manufacturer.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Angrybutcher*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I don't know how willing Frozen will be to step in here after they were treated in another thread. I'm not knockin anyone just pointing out that OCN wasn't exactly friendly to the one guy that did step up regarding the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would be absolutely cool if he did make the attempt though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't ask for them to respond, just an inquiry to see if they knew the manufacture date as there may be a "defect" in the tubing from certain periods. I did mention OCN, but said that we were investigating and trying to gather data to see if we can get it fixed by the manufacturer.
Click to expand...

Ah I geet it now. Sorry long night and will be long day.









~Ceadder


----------



## rakunSA

After several back and forth emails, John at Jab-Tech said that he contacted Primochill and will be sending them samples of their old stock to compare with their latest batch. Apparently he already knew about this thread









get it out ppl!


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rakunSA*
> 
> After several back and forth emails, John at Jab-Tech said that he contacted Primochill and will be sending them samples of their old stock to compare with their latest batch. Apparently he already knew about this thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> get it out ppl!


This deserves +Rep.









~Ceadder


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rakunSA*
> 
> After several back and forth emails, John at Jab-Tech said that he contacted Primochill and will be sending them samples of their old stock to compare with their latest batch. Apparently he already knew about this thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> get it out ppl!


Excellent mate







+1 as well.


----------



## Ivan TSI

So which brand of tubing is without issues and safe to buy???


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ivan TSI*
> 
> So which brand of tubing is without issues and safe to buy???


Tygon "Beverage Clear" seems to be getting the nod. Not expensive if you get through ebay (I've linked them above).

edit: only one size though, 3/8x1/2


----------



## Ivan TSI

im a budget/performance guy but in this case im willing to spend for a tubing that does not have any issues.


----------



## wermad

You can get the stuff from Home depot, they have bigger sizes. It is prone to clouding but not immediately like the Primochill.


----------



## rakunSA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ivan TSI*
> 
> So which brand of tubing is without issues and safe to buy???


supposedly the primochill at koolertek is fine according to one of the users here


----------



## Ivan TSI

Koolance brand tubing has the same issues?


----------



## Angrybutcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Excellent mate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +1 as well.


I got a response from FrozenCPU. They said that while there are no manufacture dates stamped on their boxes, they cycle through them roughly every 2-3 months. It doesn't guarantee a manufacture date, but should give a relative idea.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackofhearts495*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Are you a smoker?
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if this is a serious question, but no
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Air is nice and clean, filtered 24/7. Not that it'd matter, I don't think.
Click to expand...

I was, dust filters will not filter smoke, and we all know cigarettes will stain everything yellow overtime. Plus smokers tend to smoke a lot when they are on their PC's, trust me I do. I've seen pics of tar dripping off PC fans before.


----------



## jackofhearts495

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> I was, dust filters will not filter smoke, and we all know cigarettes will stain everything yellow overtime. Plus smokers tend to smoke a lot when they are on their PC's, trust me I do. I've seen pics of tar dripping off PC fans before.


But why would air quality affect a closed loop? The only time I could see the air affecting the loop would be when it's first filled, but even then...

*EDIT:* Quit for your PC's sake!


----------



## GoodInk

Well on the inside of the tuning wouldn't, but the outside it would. I was assuming that you where saying the outside turned yellow and not the inside. You know the old saying when you assume you make an ... of you and me,


----------



## jackofhearts495

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Well on the inside of the tuning wouldn't, but the outside it would. I was assuming that you where saying the outside turned yellow and not the inside. You know the old saying when you assume you make an ... of you and me,


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackofhearts495*
> 
> My *inside* of my white Primochill started to yellow within a few weeks of running my loop. Distilled + kill coil in a Rasa240 kit.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *jackofhearts495*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Are you a smoker?
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if this is a serious question, but no
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Air is nice and clean, filtered 24/7. Not that it'd matter, I don't think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was, dust filters will not filter smoke, and we all know cigarettes will stain everything yellow overtime. Plus smokers tend to smoke a lot when they are on their PC's, trust me I do. I've seen pics of tar dripping off PC fans before.
Click to expand...

Haha but I bet MOST of those pics come from people who don't do a lot of work on their systems if at all. Ex Smoker here







and while I did smoke around my systems, I also maintained them regularly. I am OCD after all. I see something brown and tarry building up on my fans I clean them.









But yeah I have seen first hand what a non technician smoker can do to a system just by smoking around it and not keeping the interior of the case clean. Hell, mine FINALLY has a noticeable buildup of dust after almost 2 years so you know as soon as it's dry outside what I'm gonna be doing. I felt like finger writing "Wash Me" in the dust on top of my ODD that's how bad it is.









~Ceadder


----------



## Angrybutcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Hell, mine FINALLY has a noticeable buildup of dust after almost 2 years so you know as soon as it's dry outside what I'm gonna be doing. I felt like finger writing "Wash Me" in the dust on top of my ODD that's how bad it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Pix or you're lying...and post them in the picture thread


----------



## Doober

okay I read through some of this thread, but not all of it. So what is the consensus as to what is causing this?

I just started water-cooling about 3 months ago.

When I first put together my loop I ran straight distilled water from kroger with no additives, no kill coil, and no dye. The tubing I used was MasterKleer purple. I extensively cleaned every block and rad before I installed my loop, and after about 1 month I stripped down my loop to add another GPU block.

When I took it apart I noticed that the tubing had this same white coating, that when rubbed off turned into a really fine powder. I didnt know what it was nor did I worry about it as I was changing out the tubing and temps were fine.

so any ideas? anything in common amongst these stories?

-doober


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackofhearts495*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Well on the inside of the tuning wouldn't, but the outside it would. I was assuming that you where saying the outside turned yellow and not the inside. You know the old saying when you assume you make an ... of you and me,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *jackofhearts495*
> 
> My *inside* of my white Primochill started to yellow within a few weeks of running my loop. Distilled + kill coil in a Rasa240 kit.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

As Ceadderman would say, I was tired







Going on my 3rd day in arrow with less than 5 hrs of sleep








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Doober*
> 
> okay I read through some of this thread, but not all of it. So what is the consensus as to what is causing this?
> 
> I just started water-cooling about 3 months ago.
> 
> When I first put together my loop I ran straight distilled water from kroger with no additives, no kill coil, and no dye. The tubing I used was MasterKleer purple. I extensively cleaned every block and rad before I installed my loop, and after about 1 month I stripped down my loop to add another GPU block.
> 
> When I took it apart I noticed that the tubing had this same white coating, that when rubbed off turned into a really fine powder. I didnt know what it was nor did I worry about it as I was changing out the tubing and temps were fine.
> 
> so any ideas? anything in common amongst these stories?
> 
> -doober


We all WC'ed our PC's







My guess it that Primochill changed something in the manufacturing about 1-2 years ago and now it's just starting to show up as people are breaking their systems down. Plus more and more people trying dyes now, as we are seeing more people not having problems with it gunking up like in the past.


----------



## Ceadderman

~Ceadder


----------



## jackofhearts495

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> As Ceadderman would say, I was tired
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Going on my 3rd day in arrow with less than 5 hrs of sleep
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Heh, I know that feel, bro. School + procrastination is really screwing up my sleep pattern (or lack thereof)... as I type, I should be working on an essay


----------



## spencer785

Hi there I bought 15ft of white Primochill LRT from FrozenCpu a month ago for my new build. Should I buy different tubing or I shouldn't worry I will be running distilled+pt nuke+silver coil. Thanks


----------



## jackofhearts495

Sounds like it's a little too late now anyway









I wouldn't worry about it too much, since it's opaque white tubing. The cloudiness (generally) doesn't appear to adversely affect loop components, so even if the inside of your tubing does "cloud", it probably won't be a big deal.


----------



## Systemlord

Question is when will Primochill actually do anything about this whole mess?

 






I don't know of any way to contact them other than their ignored emails, why don't members return the defective tubing to where they bought it? This isn't acceptable business practices to do nothing, something must be done or Primochill products will no longer be considered for purchase!


----------



## Angrybutcher

Honestly I'm not sure how many vendors even know of the issue. I've seen a lot of people on here try out different tubing to see if it doesn't happen, but no mention of anyone trying to RMA the tubing, or at least let their vendor know. That said, when I talked to FrozenCPU today, they seemed receptive to our findings. We'll see what my new tubing does in a week or so.


----------



## DevilDriver

To every one thinking about using the tubing from HomeDepot, it gets very cloudy but doesn't appear to effect any thing else in the loop.

The first pic is of my tygon tubing I've been using for almost a year now


This second pic if of the small section of Homedepot tubing I used because I ran out of Tygon. Its been in the loop about 2 1/2 months


----------



## Angrybutcher

Which Tygon tubing is that? They make all kinds. Also, is the Home Depot stuff Watts brand or something else?


----------



## anubis1127

I've got some black Primochill LRT i've been using for around 4 months, now I'm curious what that looks like on the inside. I'm going to be re doing my loop this weekend, so I'll post some pics once take everything apart.


----------



## japanesegorilla

So, I just got a 10ft pack of white LRT from amazon.com. Is this something I should be concerned over? Should I return it and look for something else? Or is this just a problem with clear tubing because people want to be able to see their fluid?


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *japanesegorilla*
> 
> *Or is this just a problem with clear tubing because people want to be able to see their fluid?*


This is the main concern tbh.


----------



## DevilDriver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Angrybutcher*
> 
> Which Tygon tubing is that? They make all kinds. Also, is the Home Depot stuff Watts brand or something else?


The HD tubing is Watts. I'll have to check with my brother which Tygon tubing that is. it was what he had left from one of his builds and sent to me.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DevilDriver*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Angrybutcher*
> 
> Which Tygon tubing is that? They make all kinds. Also, is the Home Depot stuff Watts brand or something else?
> 
> 
> 
> The HD tubing is Watts. I'll have to check with my brother which Tygon tubing that is. it was what he had left from one of his builds and sent to me.
Click to expand...

What a generous brother.









I just gave mine the inverter that came with the FrozenQ Liquid Fusion Res I got, cause his was deader'n dead. Now he'll be able to use his Cats that he's had for a few years and wasn't able to run when he went to hook it all up. I'm gonna get a Lamptron inverter and a switch for my Frozen Q. My PCIs' are pretty well filled.









~Ceadder


----------



## DevilDriver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> What a generous brother.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just gave mine the inverter that came with the FrozenQ Liquid Fusion Res I got, cause his was deader'n dead. Now he'll be able to use his Cats that he's had for a few years and wasn't able to run when he went to hook it all up. I'm gonna get a Lamptron inverter and a switch for my Frozen Q. My PCIs' are pretty well filled.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Yea, with out my brother I wouldn't have my loop. minus my black ice gtx rad and xspc rasa gpu block he gave me my entire loop.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DevilDriver*
> 
> To every one thinking about using the tubing from HomeDepot, it gets very cloudy but doesn't appear to effect any thing else in the loop.
> The first pic is of my tygon tubing I've been using for almost a year now
> 
> This second pic if of the small section of Homedepot tubing I used because I ran out of Tygon. Its been in the loop about 2 1/2 months


I'm aware the Watts from HD won't last long, sadly







. Though, its hella cheap and just a quick drive from my home. I'm really looking forward to the results of the Tygon "Beverage Clear" tube. If there's not decent clear tube available, then I'll go with color tube.


----------



## Sistum Id

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Question is when will Primochill actually do anything about this whole mess?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know of any way to contact them other than their ignored emails, why don't members return the defective tubing to where they bought it? This isn't acceptable business practices to do nothing, something must be done or Primochill products will no longer be considered for purchase!


I've been in contact with a rep from Primochill for the last few days. They are going to replace my tubing and have me send my old tubing back for testing. All I did was go to their website and followed the contact us link, told them the problem and posted a link back to this thread and how other people are having the same issue. I sent them the email early Sunday morning and was responded back afternoon on Monday.


----------



## wermad

^^^ +1 mate


----------



## Ceadderman

Might do that myself.









~Ceadder


----------



## iCrap

I will send them a message also and see what they say...


----------



## GoodInk

I hope I don't have to do this my self, thacks for the heads up and keep us posted if they let you in on any info. +Rep


----------



## wermad

Hey guys. I was at Home Depot to fix a leaky faucet and I stumbled on this guy in the plumbing/irrigation area. It was only $3!!! Grabbed it and I'll run a small sample to see how it fairs against the clear tube. Most likely it will develop a film inside but seeing that its black, aesthetics wise, you won't notice it.


----------



## GoodInk

What sizes and how much flex before it kinks?


----------



## wermad

3/8x1/2, its a little bit rigid but just like the clear Watts, fluid bends and using angled fittings will avoid kinks. I haven't had any kinks with the clear stuff. I also saw 1/2x5/8 and 1/2x3/4


----------



## GoodInk

Weekly update on the test setup running nothing but distilled water running 24/7 on new Primochill clear tubing. I'm going to be taking the pics at night for now on and with the sleeving under the hose. The wide shot is with the flash and the close up is without the flash. I'm going to be doing it like this because it is much easier to control the light at night, and I have found the the flash makes the tubing look more clear than what it really is. The sleeving is for white balance and to have color you can see through the tubing. This first update I'm going to have the pics from when I set it up and the pics from after a week of running it. Now that I have set it up so I can take a consistent pictures with lighting and white balance I will compare the following weeks updates with this weeks pics plus what ever the weeks previous weeks was to. So you'll have three weeks of pics to compare with.

Zero week (9Feb)









Week 1 (18Feb)









Closeup Week 1(18Feb)









I'm pretty sure that it has already started to cloud up, I'm hoping it's just the lighting making it look like it has as I'm running this in may rig now and plan on having a window in my case soon.


----------



## DevilDriver

^^^ I think any tubing will cloud over time. its just a matter of how long it takes. The tygon in my loop isn't to bad but is cloudy compared to the piece I use only when filling my loop.
Comparing the very cloudy Watt's section of tubing in my loop to the rest and to the res, I really don't think it effects the loop.
I do not see any thing floating around, and there is no settlement in my res or a marked water line.


----------



## Ceadderman

It's possible that lines do cloud up over time. But that doesn't esplain why the differences in length of time. Some people never get it, while others get clouding in 6 months or longer, while still others get it in a matter of days to weeks. That makes no sense whatsoever in a chemical reactive world. Tubing (if held to the same processing standard from day 1 to infinity) shouldn't be clouding up with such irregularity unless there's an environmental reaction involved somewhere along the line.

So while it's probably true that all tubing clouds, there is no justification as to exactly why this happens.









~Ceadder


----------



## GoodInk

I 100% agree, what is why I'm running this test, hoping to see if what is in my rig last the same as the test setup. This way I can see if it's the tubing or if there is something in my loop causing the clouding.


----------



## Rops84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> I 100% agree, what is why I'm running this test, hoping to see if what is in my rig last the same as the test setup. This way I can see if it's the tubing or if there is something in my loop causing the clouding.


Maybe the temps of coolant and transfer of heat to tubings can cause that?Maybe the heat is causing a faster chemical reaction(it almost always does), so tubing in hot rigs or rigs where the heat is constant get clouded faster... and temp is the only difference between ur rig and test setup that has only the pump in it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramkatral*
> 
> It's like a fine powder when I wipe it. Very fine. It's odd and has to be something with the tubing.


Is there more of that powder in the tubing after hot blocks or is the powder evenly distributed?


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rops84*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> I 100% agree, what is why I'm running this test, hoping to see if what is in my rig last the same as the test setup. This way I can see if it's the tubing or if there is something in my loop causing the clouding.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the temps of coolant and transfer of heat to tubings can cause that?Maybe the heat is causing a faster chemical reaction(it almost always does), so tubing in hot rigs or rigs where the heat is constant get clouded faster... and temp is the only difference between ur rig and test setup that has only the pump in it.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ramkatral*
> 
> It's like a fine powder when I wipe it. Very fine. It's odd and has to be something with the tubing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there more of that powder in the tubing after hot blocks or is the powder evenly distributed?
Click to expand...

From what I can tell with my old tubing it was pretty even. I will say that this pump and no rad is making some heat. I have moved the PSU so it is blowing on the res to help cool it. This test setup is running hotter than what my rig was.


----------



## jackofhearts495

Hey guys, I finished that spreadsheet I was talking about. It contains all the information from this thread in a neat little spreadsheet (it's Database v1.0 in the thread).

I then made a new spreadsheet so we can get some coherent, updated information. Spread the word!

*OCN WC Tubing Database Thread*


----------



## Rops84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> From what I can tell with my old tubing it was pretty even. I will say that this pump and no rad is making some heat. I have moved the PSU so it is blowing on the res to help cool it. This test setup is running hotter than what my rig was.


Imagine that! so much heat from just a pump...

hm...even spread, i think u can expect the same clouding in ur test rig as in ur system if there is something wrong with the tubes.

I am putting together watercooling for my system next week when all the parts come in and i think i will use tubing from pet shop that is used for aquariums... it is tested to withstand heated water, have minimal impact on the loop and it shouldnt "leek" anything in the water so it doesnt kill the fishes...maybe u should try that also...


----------



## wermad

I'm putting my loop together with the cheap stuff from HD.

Anyone have pics of the Tygon "Beverage" tube?


----------



## opt33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> I'm putting my loop together with the cheap stuff from HD.
> Anyone have pics of the Tygon "Beverage" tube?


Page 21 this thread, post 209, first pic with cloudy tubing is tygon 3603. Second pic with 6 months of still clear tubing (with G11 dye) is tygon beverage b44-3x in 3/8 ID 5/8 OD. I have also used b44-4x like here at sidewinders.


----------



## jackofhearts495

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> I'm putting my loop together with the cheap stuff from HD.
> Anyone have pics of the Tygon "Beverage" tube?


#38 in the Old Database









It's got all the info from this thread in it.


----------



## dseg

I contacted Primochill and they are aware of the issue. I contacted them 2 days ago and they asked for the components in my loop and sent me 10ft of new tubing immediately It should be here Thursday. I am guessing they are trying to find similar components in everyone's loop. They are super nice and understanding and I did not expect them to send me more tubing with no questions asked.


----------



## xyeLz

This is good to know since I was looking at either getting some more Tygon or an alternative for my loop.

Unfortunately I'm still up in the air about this, but the last thing I will ever do is go back to plasticizer (specifically with Tygon R3400 which ruined my first reservoir).


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xyeLz*
> 
> This is good to know since I was looking at either getting some more Tygon or an alternative for my loop.
> 
> Unfortunately I'm still up in the air about this, but the last thing I will ever do is go back to plasticizer (specifically with Tygon R3400 which ruined my first reservoir).


How did it mess up the res?


----------



## xyeLz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> How did it mess up the res?


The water came up to about 3/4 of the wall full. At the top of the water level began to form a yellowish "gluey" substance. I would put my finger in there to wipe it off and it was like wet but drying silicone. It was very difficult to wipe off and over a period of a couple months accumulated so much of this gunk in there that I couldn't take it - I was afraid it was going to do the same to my blocks.

I took the tubing off and the interior of the black tubing was practically all white/yellowish and parts of it were cracking off. It was disgusting to say the least. I switched to Tygon clear plasticizer free tubing and haven't had any problems since - except it doesn't bend at ALL.


----------



## ramkatral

Sounds like Primochill is willing to fix their mistakes. Perhaps I should contact them about my issue.


----------



## mrw1986

Been running about a month with my Primochill ProLRT White 7/16" ID x 5/8" OD and haven't had any leeching whatsoever.


----------



## mybadomen

Got my new clear coming From Primochill so will be trying it again to see if problem is resolved now that it has been a while.Very understanding company and yes they are very aware of the issue its hopefully just a bad batch that went out.There tubing is so damn nice though.And it doesn't seem to effect anything but the tubing everything else was crystal clear.Either way i am giving the clear another shot and if it dont go well i will still be buying Primochill just colored is all.I have had my black tubing apart after weals running and no white inside at all/ so who knows. I just know the tubing is so nice to work with and i am sure they will fix the issue if one still exists.Best bet is to contact them and let them know where you got the clear from so they can try to restock it.

Take Care MybadOmen

Will Post results when get the new tubing and have it setup.


----------



## xxmastermindxx

Just got 12 feet of blue Primochill Pro LRT from Jab-Tech, I'll post up my experience with it too.


----------



## lowfat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> I'm putting my loop together with the cheap stuff from HD.
> Anyone have pics of the Tygon "Beverage" tube?


I just got the Tygon B-44-3 from eBay today. It has a yellow tint to it so unfortunately I won't be using it in my loop. I'll use it for other purposes.


----------



## mybadomen

It seems so funny one of our biggest problems with setting up a cooling system is the least Expensive part.The Tubing. But it can be hell changing it all the time so yeah i am praying my new Primochill comes in perfect.I really want to run clear and really love their tubing so no choice but to try again and make sure everything is perfectly clean when i set it up.


----------



## jackofhearts495

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> It seems so funny one of our biggest problems with setting up a cooling system is the least Expensive part.The Tubing. But it can be hell changing it all the time so yeah i am praying my new Primochill comes in perfect.I really want to run clear and really love their tubing so no choice but to try again and make sure everything is perfectly clean when i set it up.


A lot of people seem to be fine with Primochill's clear tubing. I don't see trends quite yet... I think it may _seem_ like a lot more people are having clouding/plasticizer problems because those with problems are a lot more likely to be vocal about it, falsely exacerbating the problem.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lowfat*
> 
> I just got the Tygon B-44-3 from eBay today. It has a yellow tint to it so unfortunately I won't be using it in my loop. I'll use it for other purposes.


That sucks mate









Im going to try rma'ing with Primochill. At least I have a backup when the cheap tube degrades.


----------



## Ivan TSI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xxmastermindxx*
> 
> Just got 12 feet of blue Primochill Pro LRT from Jab-Tech, I'll post up my experience with it too.


Update?


----------



## GoodInk

that wasn't even 2 days ago


----------



## bringtherain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dseg*
> 
> I contacted Primochill and they are aware of the issue. I contacted them 2 days ago and they asked for the components in my loop and sent me 10ft of new tubing immediately It should be here Thursday. I am guessing they are trying to find similar components in everyone's loop. They are super nice and understanding and I did not expect them to send me more tubing with no questions asked.


well thats new. i still have yet to receive any response for my UV Red Tubing that isn't UV reactive... and its been almost 2 months already >.>


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bringtherain*
> 
> well thats new. i still have yet to receive any response for my UV Red Tubing that isn't UV reactive... and its been almost 2 months already >.>


You have to keep trying.They apologized for the delay in response but they are very busy i was told setting up both there new sites and dealing with the tubing problem.Like i said i was told it was a batch that went out and they are trying to get it all back in.So you have to let them know where you bought it and show them a picture or something.Dudes name is Brian and is very helpful but also very busy.Just keep trying and make sure you include all details like what you used for coolant etc. In my case it was Distilled water 2 drops of Biocide and a kill coil.The water was crystal clear System was flushed really really good as i always do and the tube went totally white in 3 days.But like i said i have bought more tubing since then from them (because its great tubing) and had no issues.Will reply more when i receive the new clear.But i would have to say they do have great support from my experience,but you do have to send a couple emails do to how busy they are with the 2 new sites.

Hope this helps.At least this was my experience with them.

Take Care MybadOmen


----------



## kazenagi

Good news is my Primochill I recently got from PPC is still clear, no film or anything and it's been a month almost. Bad news is both my pumps mysteriously died.. Ignore the slightly dusty tubing, didn't wipe it down







I was running red Ekoolant and running full load 24/7 since the day I installed the loop.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kazenagi*
> 
> Good news is my Primochill I recently got from PPC is still clear, no film or anything and it's been a month almost. Bad news is both my pumps mysteriously died.. Ignore the slightly dusty tubing, didn't wipe it down
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was running red Ekoolant and running full load 24/7 since the day I installed the loop.


What brand and model number were your pumps?


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kazenagi*
> 
> Good news is my Primochill I recently got from PPC is still clear, no film or anything and it's been a month almost. Bad news is both my pumps mysteriously died.. Ignore the slightly dusty tubing, didn't wipe it down
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was running red Ekoolant and running full load 24/7 since the day I installed the loop.


Good news about the tubing but damn sorry bout the Pumps.That really bites man.Hope you can warranty them or something.


----------



## wermad

What's the email or site for Primochill?


----------



## kazenagi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> What brand and model number were your pumps?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> Good news about the tubing but damn sorry bout the Pumps.That really bites man.Hope you can warranty them or something.


Both pumps were from Dazmode, one was pwm the other nonpwm, pwm one works again but I'll be getting an rma for the dead one









I bought my tubing on the 4th at performance pcs for those wondering.


----------



## Striknine

I got some questions. This has no label but it is suppose to be Primochill Primoflex PRO LRT. My last order came unmarked too and suffered from plasticizer. Is there a way to tell what this is? Am I getting a fake?










This is what I see people get and most are happy. Mine just does not have the label like this.


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Striknine*
> 
> I got some questions. This has no label but it is suppose to be Primochill Primoflex PRO LRT. My last order came unmarked too and suffered from plasticizer. Is there a way to tell what this is? Am I getting a fake?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what I see people get and most are happy. Mine just does not have the label like this.


Mine all came in a hard plastic case with a cover. but i bought the 10' length


----------



## Striknine

Ya I have seen that too. Maybe only 10 foot comes prepackaged?


----------



## mybadomen

Here is what the package looked like the last 3 times i bought it: Clear.White and Black all came this way. for me


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> Here is what the package looked like the last 3 times i bought it: Clear.White and Black all came this way. for me


Is it me or are there a bunch of "pieces" in the package? Are those of your doing omen?









~Ceadder


----------



## Striknine

I bought 12 foot and all of the packages I see are 10foot. I wonder if that is why mine is not labeled? Or am I getting duped because it only comes in 10 foot at a time? Are the people who get tube with a hard plastic package also having plasticizer problems?


----------



## kazenagi

10 foot packages are prepackaged with all the labels, the by the foot tubing are pulled and cut from a giant spool at the resellers, I bought my tubing by the foot a few weeks ago and there still hasn't been any signs of leeching. Tubing cut by the foot just comes wrapped around in a circle with plastic without any labeling most of the time.


----------



## Striknine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kazenagi*
> 
> 10 foot packages are prepackaged with all the labels, the by the foot tubing are pulled and cut from a giant spool at the resellers, I bought my tubing by the foot a few weeks ago and there still hasn't been any signs of leeching.


Awesome, thank you!


----------



## GoodInk

Sorry I forgot about the weekly update last night.

Week 1


Week 2


Week 1


Week 2


----------



## Shogon

Well I got a lot of plasticizer in my Black tubing from Jab-Tech (Primochill), weird thing is my white tubing from FrozenCPU has next to none on it. Will post pics soon.









part of the tubing leading from the radiator to the CPU block +^








part of the tubing from chipset to T-line








botton part of my T line








tubing from the pump to the radiator

there's some also on the tubing leading from the T-line to the pump/res.

Theres more buildup near my BitsPower fittings, then it dissipates the farther it is from it inside the tubing. Not as bad as others have posted.


----------



## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Striknine*
> 
> I got some questions. This has no label but it is suppose to be Primochill Primoflex PRO LRT. My last order came unmarked too and suffered from plasticizer. Is there a way to tell what this is? Am I getting a fake?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what I see people get and most are happy. Mine just does not have the label like this.


I believe only the 10' prepackaged version comes with the label. I ordered 15' of Promochill UV Red from FrozenCPU and it came in an unlabeled bag. No plasticizer so far and it's been in my loop for a month.


----------



## Systemlord

I'm not going to buy any Primochill tubing until all this mess is cleaned up, can you buy directly from Primochill?


----------



## bringtherain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> You have to keep trying.They apologized for the delay in response but they are very busy i was told setting up both there new sites and dealing with the tubing problem.Like i said i was told it was a batch that went out and they are trying to get it all back in.So you have to let them know where you bought it and show them a picture or something.Dudes name is Brian and is very helpful but also very busy.Just keep trying and make sure you include all details like what you used for coolant etc. In my case it was Distilled water 2 drops of Biocide and a kill coil.The water was crystal clear System was flushed really really good as i always do and the tube went totally white in 3 days.But like i said i have bought more tubing since then from them (because its great tubing) and had no issues.Will reply more when i receive the new clear.But i would have to say they do have great support from my experience,but you do have to send a couple emails do to how busy they are with the 2 new sites.
> Hope this helps.At least this was my experience with them.
> Take Care MybadOmen


did you get a confirmation email when you sent them one? Just sent one yesterday and on both occasions I never got any email notifications.


----------



## DaXxJaPxX

putting in my new loop with uv red primochill lrt, i'll post some pics if i find any leeching


----------



## Ivan TSI

Can someone verify of PPC has a new batch of tubing or still has the one with the problem?


----------



## (sic)

I don't know about a new batch from PPCs, but I heard a few people state that jab-tech had a huge stock of Promochill from a batch or two before all the plasticizer issues.

Like the Chris avatar!


----------



## Ivan TSI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogon*
> 
> Well I got a lot of plasticizer in my Black tubing from Jab-Tech (Primochill), weird thing is my white tubing from FrozenCPU has next to none on it. Will post pics soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> part of the tubing leading from the radiator to the CPU block +^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> part of the tubing from chipset to T-line
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> botton part of my T line
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tubing from the pump to the radiator
> there's some also on the tubing leading from the T-line to the pump/res.
> Theres more buildup near my BitsPower fittings, then it dissipates the farther it is from it inside the tubing. Not as bad as others have posted.


^ This is from Jab Tech


----------



## Ivan TSI

Its awesome how i have to wait for the cheapest part of the loop.


----------



## (sic)

Hmm, missed that post.

Yeah, I'm in a similar situation. Guess it would be best to wait and see if it's ever cleared up.


----------



## japanesegorilla

Can you guys clarify what the actual danger is here? Is it that it might coat your blocks/rads/res/pump and harm performance? Or is it that it looks ugly when you have clear tubing?


----------



## Angrybutcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *japanesegorilla*
> 
> Can you guys clarify what the actual danger is here? Is it that it might coat your blocks/rads/res/pump and harm performance? Or is it that it looks ugly when you have clear tubing?


Mainly the looks, but there is the threat of blockage over time. I don't believe we've seen any reports of that lately though.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *japanesegorilla*
> 
> Can you guys clarify what the actual danger is here? Is it that it might coat your blocks/rads/res/pump and harm performance? Or is it that it looks ugly when you have clear tubing?


Both, I don't tear down my loop that often unless I'm upgrading, I haven't touched my loop in almost two years,


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Is it me or are there a bunch of "pieces" in the package? Are those of your doing omen?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


yeah making the ends perfectly straight.Just an OCD thing.If it wast absolutely straight i cut it again lol


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Sorry I forgot about the weekly update last night.
> Week 1
> 
> Week 2
> 
> Week 1
> 
> Week 2


oh please let my new stuff be that nice.But that's really not running through a whole loop with heat etc so it might not happen in that scenario


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> oh please let my new stuff be that nice.But that's really not running through a whole loop with heat etc so it might not happen in that scenario


That is kinda the idea that there isn't anything in the loop. We were tossing the idea around that the problem could be related to other things like a kill coil, PT Nuke, rads, dyes, ect, ect, ect. There is plenty of heat from the pump with no rad to cool it. I have the PSU blowing on the res to keep it cool, it's warm enough that the tubing is soft like this. Before I moved the PSU, I was scared the pump would burn up. I have the same tubing running in my rig right now and it was installed about 3 days after I set this up. So if my rig gets it and this never does, we might be on to something.


----------



## Capt Proton

I don't get this talk about the amount of heat from the pump. My PMP-400 does not get any more than warm. I am talking about the delrin (plastic) bttom case, the part you can actually touch while the pump is running.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> I don't get this talk about the amount of heat from the pump. My PMP-400 does not get any more than warm. I am talking about the delrin (plastic) bttom case, the part you can actually touch while the pump is running.


The water is cooling the pump, with out a rad the water does not get cooled. Over time a loop with just a pump will heat the water up as there is no way for the heat to dissipate. You can take my word for it, because I'm not going to go buy an aquarium terminator to put on my res.


----------



## wermad

Here's the HD tube in action. I need to stop procrastinating and send Primochill and email to get me some replacement tube


----------



## Canis-X

Ah man, you guys got me worried now. I don't want to break down my loops to check this out. Real bummer.


----------



## Rangerscott

I got primochill red tubing from Jab-tech a year ago (have to look it up) and it still looks brand new.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X*
> 
> Ah man, you guys got me worried now. I don't want to break down my loops to check this out. Real bummer.


It's nothing you really need to worry about unless it is getting very severe. Unless you see little white flakes in you res, you should be just fine. The is more about clear tubing fogging up and turning colors making the loop look bad.


----------



## Ulver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Here's the HD tube in action. I need to stop procrastinating and send Primochill and email to get me some replacement tube


Nice rig, man!









...but, isn't that tube a bit kinked right at the cpu block inlet?









Maybe is just the picture?


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ulver*
> 
> Nice rig, man!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...but, isn't that tube a bit kinked right at the cpu block inlet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe is just the picture?


Nope, it does look like it but its not. Its just the way the bend is on the crappy angle and photo I took. This tube diameter does have its limitations and I use angled fittings when I know its gonna kink.


----------



## Systemlord

I haven't opened up my loop in almost two years, I can't afford to have any contaminant in the loop! It's clear that this is just a bad batch, I'm sure it will work itself out.


----------



## Ceadderman

I swear you people just wait til I'm system building to discuss, so I can't take part.









On topic... I think you wouldn't want to see "little white flakes" floating inside your system.









~Ceadder


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I swear you people just wait til I'm system building to discuss, so I can't take part.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On topic... I think you wouldn't want to see "little white flakes" floating inside your system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


My bad that was suppose to say *unless* you have little white flakes but this will fix it!


----------



## Ceadderman

Meh, I am gonna use T-Gel in my loop.












~Ceadder


----------



## Kokin

I have been running my Masterkleer UV Blue tubing for about 2 weeks now and it's still clear. Hoping it takes at least a few months to get plasticizer showing up.


----------



## pvt.joker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> My bad that was suppose to say *unless* you have little white flakes but this will fix it!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Meh, I am gonna use T-Gel in my loop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Hahaha.. you guys are wrong in the head.. Just like me!

Hoping to hear about a solution from this thread soon.. I'm pending tax return/diving my rig into water..


----------



## jackofhearts495

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pvt.joker*
> 
> Hahaha.. you guys are wrong in the head.. Just like me!
> Hoping to hear about a solution from this thread soon.. I'm pending tax return/diving my rig into water..


Well some tubing seems okay. I haven't seen anyone have problems with Tygon "Beverage" tubing.


----------



## wermad

Well, I added more Mayhems dye to my loop and my res is a very dark purple, to the point where you can mistake it as black. Sadly, after a couple of days, the tube has a slight haze to it. Its lost that deep darkness. Seems like the new roll of clear tube from HD I used this time is starting to cloud much earlier. Makes me think if all these companies buy them from the same Chinese manufacturer (no malice intended here ppl







),







. Anyways, I'm sending primochill some pics and a good description of my situation tonight. I'm hoping the replacement will last longer.


----------



## rj2

has anybody who has been in contact with primochill received any word back on the plasticizer issue,and if it will be fixed??


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rj2*
> 
> has anybody who has been in contact with primochill received any word back on the plasticizer issue,and if it will be fixed??


Word ^^


----------



## mybadomen

It would be nice to hear from some more people not having the problem and what they are using in there loop.Talking about the Clear tubing only.Would be allot easier to narrow it down.I am going to run the same clear in my new build and want to make damn sure its not something idiotic i am doing.I know how to set up a loop but i am not a chemist.

My loop contained 2 drops of Dead Water Biocide and a kill cool.

Kill coil mounted in Res wrapped around plastic so not in contact with any other metal.

Still running same tubing brand now and same thing 2 drops and same kill coil .

That was my setup , Can others list there setup. even if you didn't have this problem.

would be allot easier to narrow it down if we seen others posting they don't have the problem.

Thanks guys


----------



## R4MP4G3

I had green LRT which didn't plasticize as much but also had black LRT which was coated white on the inside.







This is after about a month.


----------



## anubis1127

I took my watercooling loop apart last weekend, and found very little/if any platicizing. I had been using the black Primochill LRT tubing for around 4 months with just distilled, and silver coil.


----------



## mybadomen

So by the sound of it it could be the biocide causing it? or biocide /silver coil mix? we still need more people to post what they were using in the loop that ended up having the problem or haven't had the problem.

Thanks those who posted and please post more about what you run with the clear. With success or without success.I stayed up all night last night researching this problem and found many different clear tubing's having the same issue. Basically any tubing that bends easily.Is having the issue. sp please guys can we hear more results of what you are running that works.

I myself am mostly concerned with dyes that work well and what additives .

Thanks guys really looking forward to some answers of what has been working and what hasn't.It would actually be cool if a poll was added to the top of this page so we could see what people were running in there loop and who had the problem and who didn't have the problem. because so far only thing i get from this thread is people showing bad tubing including myself but really not explaining what is in the loop.And not many people that are running the clear are posting that have success of it.

I see many on you tube etc running clear with no issues on some really nice builds.

Thanks guys and like i said I keep posting trying to figure this out because i want to run the same clear again in my new build and want to know if it is what i was running that caused it so i don't repeat the issue .

Thank guys and take care


----------



## PARTON

Distilled + kill coil only and I had a nice coat of plasticizer within 48 hours. I'm still running it btw. I bet it's getting thicker by the day.

I did a pretty stout vinegar rinse on my rad. Someone let some tubing sit in some vinegar overnight and see what it does. I guess I could do it myself if I get some free time.


----------



## opt33

The most important variable is amount of plasticizer in the the particular batch of tubing during manufacturing, and whether steps were taken to create plasticizer free inner bore, +/- some unknown manufacturing variables that we have no knowledge or control over. Those variables you wont be able to screen for, and those are likely the ones that matter the most. In the chart that one person made, looks like people with and without every kind of additive had both clear and clouded tubing. Again, sounds like just manufacturing issues on more recent tubing.

You can buy plasticizer free tubing, ie tygon beverage tubing b44-4x and b44-3x, and then not have to worry about plasticizer, but you wont be able to make really tight bends so some limitations, since plasticizer is what gives tubing greater flexibility.

What we need is someone to step up to plate, and start making plasticizer free inner bore and clearly labeling it as such, though will be a little more expensive, I would definitely get it. Only plasticizer free inner bore I know of now is tygon silver tubing, but i am not interested in that color.


----------



## axipher

I'm still thinking of going with some Primochill Black tubing for my loop, but for now I'm running some of this.

I have had it for about a week now, did a flush of each part individually, then a 4L flush with distilled water, then proceeded to fill and close up the loop.

So far flow is completely smooth, no vortex's or micro-bubbles forming anywhere, and hasn't started to get cloudy at all.










Quote:


> Watts 3/4 in. OD x 1/2 in. ID x 10 ft. Clear PVC Tubing is a terrific choice when it comes to building or repairing your drainage lines. Its smooth bore reduces sediment buildup and ensures a high flow rate. This tubing has a high resistance to acids and alkalis.
> 
> 
> Clear vinyl construction uses FDA-approved materials suitable for use in food and beverage applications
> Dense bore maximizes flow rate and reduces sediment buildup
> Can be used with chemicals, gases and liquids
> Resistant to acids, alkalis and solvents
> PVC, PVC tubing, tubing, plastic tubing, vinyl tubing, clear vinyl tubing
> MFG Brand Name : Watts
> MFG Model # : SVLI10
> MFG Part # : 42143811


http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100127878/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=svli10&storeId=10051


----------



## phibrizo

Hey guys, I just took down my water loop since I got new stuff and all that jazz (yay, new parts), I did not see any white residue on the inside of my tubes from the Primochill LRT UV Blue that I bought in November 2011. I still have some left that I am going to be using with the black tubing I just bought. Once my new pump comes in today, I will run her for a bit and see if I get some plasticizes on the inner tubing. I do not think that there was a fraudulent product going out, I just think that a bad batch was made and that is the issue for some of you. I only used distilled water and Swiftech's HydrX. I can not remember if I had issues with the blue tubing before, but if I did, I did not notice it, then I most likely did not have the issue. Only time I remember having any issues was when I switched to water cooling and after the first drain with clear tubing and premixed coolant, my block was gunked, and the entire system was stained blue including the tubing. After that, I decided to only use water and an antifreeze like mixture and the HydrX covered that criteria I wanted.


----------



## seg//fault

Primochill UV Blue and UV green tubing here, with distilled water + biocide. Only took about a week till I started noticing discoloration on the low parts of my loop. Maybe just ****tily distilled water with mineral deposits? Sure looks a lot like the other pics in this thread though.


----------



## superericla

Primochill Pro LRT UV Red with Primochill PC Pure. No plasticizer, algae, or any solids in the loop so far after a month or so of use. Tubing is clear as it was day 1.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *seg//fault*
> 
> Primochill UV Blue and UV green tubing here, with distilled water + biocide. Only took about a week till I started noticing discoloration on the low parts of my loop. Maybe just ****tily distilled water with mineral deposits? Sure looks a lot like the other pics in this thread though.


Distilled has no minerals unless you contaminated the water with tap or "drinking" water (ie, when flushing?). Its happening on color and clear tube. Most notably on the clear tube since you can see it directly


----------



## superericla

Here is a picture of my UV Red after a month of 24/7 use.


----------



## wermad

Emailed Primochill and sent them my pics of the affected tube. I'm hoping they can send a replacement that does not cloud.


----------



## jackofhearts495

Another friendly request for you guys to add to the tubing database (link in sig)









Hopefully we'll start to see some trends.


----------



## Ceadderman

I would add myself but I'm not running anything yet. I got some used PrimoChill White LRT(and 4' of new with it) that looks none the worse for wear, but I cannot add myself to the list yet because my loop isn't completed yet.









Although the gentleman I got my tubing from, only used Distilled and Silver Coil.









~Ceadder


----------



## rj2

well i have ordered some xspc tubing from here in canada,and see if that fares better than my badly leaching primochill tubing


----------



## Ivan TSI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rj2*
> 
> well i have ordered some xspc tubing from here in canada,and see if that fares better than my badly leaching primochill tubing


Please keep us updated on this, we need a alternative to the primochill tubing since this looks like it will take a long time to fix.


----------



## PARTON

They're sending me replacement tubing and a return label so they can inspect the old stuff. A+


----------



## lowfat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *opt33*
> 
> The most important variable is amount of plasticizer in the the particular batch of tubing during manufacturing, and whether steps were taken to create plasticizer free inner bore, +/- some unknown manufacturing variables that we have no knowledge or control over. Those variables you wont be able to screen for, and those are likely the ones that matter the most. In the chart that one person made, looks like people with and without every kind of additive had both clear and clouded tubing. Again, sounds like just manufacturing issues on more recent tubing.
> You can buy plasticizer free tubing, ie tygon beverage tubing b44-4x and b44-3x, and then not have to worry about plasticizer, but you wont be able to make really tight bends so some limitations, since plasticizer is what gives tubing greater flexibility.
> What we need is someone to step up to plate, and start making plasticizer free inner bore and clearly labeling it as such, though will be a little more expensive, I would definitely get it. Only plasticizer free inner bore I know of now is tygon silver tubing, but i am not interested in that color.


Unfortunately you still do need to worry about placitizier/clouding w/ B-44-4X. It was just as bad as R3603 for me. I used a killcoil + PTN w/ distilled. Tubes were starting to cloud within two weeks. So either it isn't plasticizer that is clouding the tubes or the whole inner bore plasticizer-free is not completely true.

I have some B-44-3 here but it has a strong yellow tint to it. Since I use Ice Dragon Cooling nanofluid I need completely clear. But I may dye it black and see if it clouds or not.


----------



## 2thAche

I've had the same Corsair fluid in my loop for years and there's never been anything in the tubing or blocks. No kill coil, nothing else added except some distilled once in a great while.

The only thing I don't like is that it's green.


----------



## anubis1127

I just installed some new blue PrimoFlex PRO LRT tubing three days ago. Today I decided to change my loop order, here is a chunk of tubing after 3 days distilled + killcoil:



not sure if you can tell from the pic, but it's pretty white on the inside, it's not a very thick layer, yet.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anubis1127*
> 
> I just installed some new blue PrimoFlex PRO LRT tubing three days ago. Today I decided to change my loop order, here is a chunk of tubing after 3 days distilled + killcoil:
> 
> 
> 
> not sure if you can tell from the pic, but it's pretty white on the inside, it's not a very thick layer, yet.


Yup, I think you'd have to be blind not to see that.









Drop PrimoChill an email and let em know. They seem to have a handle on this and are taking care of their customers.









~Ceadder


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anubis1127*
> 
> I just installed some new blue PrimoFlex PRO LRT tubing three days ago. Today I decided to change my loop order, here is a chunk of tubing after 3 days distilled + killcoil:
> 
> 
> 
> not sure if you can tell from the pic, but it's pretty white on the inside, it's not a very thick layer, yet.


Three days







I'm really starting to think this isn't from plasticizer. That is just way too fast. How many people with the bad/quick build up would say they have a low flowing setup. I know I did with my black tubing.


----------



## opt33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lowfat*
> 
> Unfortunately you still do need to worry about placitizier/clouding w/ B-44-4X. It was just as bad as R3603 for me. I used a killcoil + PTN w/ distilled. Tubes were starting to cloud within two weeks. So either it isn't plasticizer that is clouding the tubes or the whole inner bore plasticizer-free is not completely true.
> I have some B-44-3 here but it has a strong yellow tint to it. Since I use Ice Dragon Cooling nanofluid I need completely clear. But I may dye it black and see if it clouds or not.


Plasticizer leech is like in post 390. Tubing can yellow or become less clear or uptake dyes/stain from fluid and become cloudy, but not same as plasticizer leech. But no question pic in post 390 is plasticizer, white residue lining tubing. Do you have a pic of yours, or do you remember if tube was cloudy as in discolored/yellow/hazy or had plasticizer buildup, ie post 390. I have seen b44-4x become less clear, but never seen plasticizer residue. B44-3x seems to do a better job of not yellowing. If you had white precipitate, then tubing had plasticizer regardless of what was advertised on tubing.

But I like my primochill pro UV blue the best, 2 yrs old in use, and still same color and perfectly clear (one of the old good batches), have 10 ft extra so good for next build in few months with IVY, and it bends much better than plasticizer free. Hopefully primochill solves their issue before I need to buy again.


----------



## jackofhearts495

I'd really, really appreciate if you guys wouldn't mind posting in the Database









There's a crapton of interesting data floating around.


----------



## PARTON

You notice any trends yet?


----------



## rakunSA

ive been using primochill clear LRT for almost a week. i bought it from jab-tech. it looks fine to me so far (none of this plasticizer in 3 days stuff). using just distilled + killcoil. i'll post pics later tonight when i get home from work lol


----------



## jackofhearts495

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PARTON*
> 
> You notice any trends yet?


Haven't really given it a good look. I'm also waiting for the responses from Primochill that people are waiting for.


----------



## anubis1127

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Yup, I think you'd have to be blind not to see that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drop PrimoChill an email and let em know. They seem to have a handle on this and are taking care of their customers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


I sent them an email, we'll see what they say.


----------



## wermad

I'm throwing in the towel and ditching clear tube and dyes for now. Getting a little impatient but that's just me; Im more at ease when things are complete. I'm going to use the black vinyl tube from HD and and I'm going with just pure distilled and silver. I'm no longer running any EK nickel products so I should have no issues







. I really see no point in running dyes if you can't show it off through the tube imho. I'll report back in a few weeks if this black tube from Home Depot develops plasticizing inside.


----------



## Epicgamers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> I'm throwing in the towel and ditching clear tube and dyes for now. Getting a little impatient but that's just me; Im more at ease when things are complete. I'm going to use the black vinyl tube from HD and and I'm going with just pure distilled and silver. I'm no longer running any EK nickel products so I should have no issues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I really see no point in running dyes if you can't show it off through the tube imho. I'll report back in a few weeks if this black tube from Home Depot develops plasticizing inside.


I given up as well... My new Primochill tubing is clouding up already.







My next plan is to replace most of my tube with copper tubing and it's going to be nickel plating.







That's my plan and I am going to try it!


----------



## jackofhearts495

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Epicgamers*
> 
> I given up as well... My new Primochill tubing is clouding up already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next plan is to replace most of my tube with copper tubing and it's going to be nickel plating.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's my plan and I am going to try it!


That... would be so freaking cool.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Epicgamers*
> 
> I given up as well... My new Primochill tubing is clouding up already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next plan is to replace most of my tube with copper tubing and it's going to be nickel plating.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's my plan and I am going to try it!


One of the mods did a steampunk themed build with copper tube. He used some for the water plumbing and some smaller ones as conduits for the wires. Pretty neat idea and I have seen nickel plated copper pipes used for plumbing in some extreme builds. Good luck mate. I'll look forward to a build log from yah


----------



## bigkahuna360

Hmm I think all of you guys are just getting a bad batch or something cause my Primochill Black LRT is doing just fine. Note I do not use a Kill Coil.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigkahuna360*
> 
> Hmm I think all of you guys are just getting a bad batch or something cause my Primochill Black LRT is doing just fine. Note I do not use a Kill Coil.


Its been more recent tube/purchases. I ran 1/2x3/4 clear Primochill this last fall and it never turned in the few months I had it. I had used Primochill white, black, and red tube and I never once had any plasticizing. So its seems like its a bad production run within the last few months. So ppl are claiming they never had this issue and bought their tube around this. Could have been an older batch or something like that.


----------



## Epicgamers

Thank guys!







I already ordered the metric copper tubing and I need to get some Bitspower multi-link adapter C47. Hopefully it will work!


----------



## Aidic06

I have some 1/2"x3/4" red tubing ordered 2 weeks ago and it was showing white after 1 weeks of use. I only know that because I had some falling out of a compression fitting so I had to drain loop quickly. I dont think the plasticizer was the reason for the disconnection, more I think I was pulling on the tube too much, not enough slack.

What's really bad, I just ordered another 10 feet of the same tubing before I found my issue. Guess I'll be stuck with subpar materials for the next few months. Can't convince my wife to buy new tubing everyday.


----------



## Ulver

Just put together a loop.
I was going to use primochill but since I bought it about the same time as you guys started reporting this I decided to use a cheap Masterkleer (or masterclear or whatever) first and the primochill I used only to connect the top GPU to the 120mm rad, as a test run.









Detailed pics on the link above but I'll post a single one here too:


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ulver*
> 
> Just put together a loop.
> I was going to use primochill but since I bought it about the same time as you guys started reporting this I decided to use a cheap Masterkleer (or masterclear or whatever) first and the primochill I used only to connect the top GPU to the 120mm rad, as a test run.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detailed pics on the link above but I'll post a single one here too:


Which dye are you using? (if any)


----------



## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Which dye are you using? (if any)


Looks like no dye to me. Look at the tubing between cards - it's clear with no color.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superericla*
> 
> Looks like no dye to me. Look at the tubing between cards - it's clear with no color.


Thought so too (gpu connections was my clue as well). But I thought Mastekleer was all clear tube







, ???


----------



## Ulver

Yeah, sorry about that lack of details.

No dye.

Only distilled water and a coil up on the res.


----------



## Dredknot

I have the LRT 1/2 I'd red tubing bought 3 weeks ago from frozencpu was running pure distilled and dead water. After 2 weeks of usage the inside of my tube is solid white. U cant even see through it. Emailed primochill with no response so far. I'm a little annoyed seeing how I ordered 15ft of it!


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dredknot*
> 
> I have the LRT 1/2 I'd red tubing bought 3 weeks ago from frozencpu was running pure distilled and dead water. After 2 weeks of usage the inside of my tube is solid white. U cant even see through it. Emailed primochill with no response so far. I'm a little annoyed seeing how I ordered 15ft of it!


I haven't gotten a reply as well mate







. It seems like this is getting bigger and bigger for them so they possibly aren't dealing with individuals directly anymore.


----------



## Dredknot

It sucks I only tore my build down to add the new blocks and thats all the tubing I have for now so I got to tear it down again when I can find some better red tubing.


----------



## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dredknot*
> 
> It sucks I only tore my build down to add the new blocks and thats all the tubing I have for now so I got to tear it down again when I can find some better red tubing.


I've ordered some primochill pro lrt uv red from frozencpu recently and have yet to get any plasticizer. I ordered some 1 1/2 months ago, and some a week ago and both have yet to plasticize. Order it at a custom length though, as I don't know if the prepackaged sets are the ones having the most issues.


----------



## ramkatral

Awesome. Never started a thread that became this popular. Lol.









Finally did something important!


----------



## Dredknot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramkatral*
> 
> Awesome. Never started a thread that became this popular. Lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally did something important!


haha! that made me laugh. I ordered 15ft of tubing not in a package custom lengh from them last month and it only took 2 weeks to develop the issue.


----------



## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dredknot*
> 
> haha! that made me laugh. I ordered 15ft of tubing not in a package custom lengh from them last month and it only took 2 weeks to develop the issue.


Hmm... That's strange. I've ordered the same tubing from the same place and have been running it for 6 weeks with no issues whatsoever. What coolant are you using?

Edit:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







This is a picture of a piece of tubing I took out literally half an hour ago that's been in my loop running 24/7 for 6 weeks...


----------



## wermad

Well, my black Watts is holding up nicely. This time around, I went with a kill.coil and Feser dye. I'll check it in a month.


----------



## Dredknot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superericla*
> 
> Hmm... That's strange. I've ordered the same tubing from the same place and have been running it for 6 weeks with no issues whatsoever. What coolant are you using?
> Edit:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a picture of a piece of tubing I took out literally half an hour ago that's been in my loop running 24/7 for 6 weeks...


that is strange...


----------



## ramkatral

I should get the title changed to Plasticizer problems/gallery.


----------



## kazenagi

My clear tubing still seems to be clear and free from any plasticizer problems, looks exactly the same as it did filled from day 1 and it's been well over a month now. Guess I'm home free.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kazenagi*
> 
> My clear tubing still seems to be clear and free from any plasticizer problems, looks exactly the same as it did filled from day 1 and it's been well over a month now. Guess I'm home free.


Where and when did you buy it?


----------



## GoodInk

Well my test setup is starting cloud up at the bend but you can see it in the pics. The tubing in my rig is still looking good. I'll try to get it in some pics tonight.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramkatral*
> 
> I should get the title changed to Plasticizer problems/gallery.


----------



## kazenagi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Where and when did you buy it?


Performance PC feb 4.


----------



## ramkatral

I requested to have the title changed to cover more broad plasticizer discussion than just Primochill. I'm gonna put together a spreadsheet off the info and pictures already posted. I'd like to just kinda have an ongoing list of any problems anyone encounters. So, if you have any problems (or LACK of problems) with your current or recent tubing, please post about it. Pictures would be great if you can provide them. I didn't expect this thread to be so popular, so it seems like a good choice to keep the discussion going.

Also, please post what you're running in your loop. Block/rad materials, kill coil, biocides, dyes, or any other additives.


----------



## jackofhearts495

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramkatral*
> 
> I requested to have the title changed to cover more broad plasticizer discussion than just Primochill. I'm gonna put together a spreadsheet off the info and pictures already posted. I'd like to just kinda have an ongoing list of any problems anyone encounters. So, if you have any problems (or LACK of problems) with your current or recent tubing, please post about it. Pictures would be great if you can provide them. I didn't expect this thread to be so popular, so it seems like a good choice to keep the discussion going.
> Also, please post what you're running in your loop. Block/rad materials, kill coil, biocides, dyes, or any other additives.


Would you mind putting a link to the Database in the opening post?


----------



## mybadomen

Guys i have found something for sure from testing some Tubing.(No brands mentioned ) But biocide will turn the Clear tubing white in 3 days flat. Without Biocide same tubing from same bunch on going over 1 weak with no signs of it. So for sure Biocide will kill the clear tubing from what i found so far. Thats the only thing i am going to say for now but still messing with a bunch of tubing from different companies.

The Biocide with Copper Sulfate in it was the one i used for testing which is a popular one. So 100% sure this will turn your Clear tubing White really fast. Also will coat the inside of colored tubing also with the distilled remaining crystal clear.

Just thought i would add what i have found from doing some testing on a 6" piece of different types of tubing.

Testing Kill Coils Next.

Take Care Guys and Good Luck


----------



## ramkatral

Yea, I'm gonna add it in there. Gonna do some editing on the OP in order to clarify the modification of the original thread purpose, and I'll put it in there.


----------



## rakunSA

my primochill LRT 7/16-5/8 from jab-tech (clear color) has been running fine thank god. it's been almost 2 weeks (13 days) and still looks clear. running just distilled plus custom made kill coil from silver strip bought from jab-tech as well.


----------



## superericla

Hmm. I've been running distilled + IandH Deadwater for a week now in my Primochill Pro LRT UV Red with no issues... Maybe it has to do with some reaction between the biocide and certain block metals?


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superericla*
> 
> Hmm. I've been running distilled + IandH Deadwater for a week now in my Primochill Pro LRT UV Red with no issues... Maybe it has to do with some reaction between the biocide and certain block metals?


I thought Copper Sulfate was a big no no for nickel plated blocks or even plain old copper?







It would be nice it every manufacturer provided a ph level for their products.


----------



## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> I thought Copper Sulfate was a big no no for nickel plated blocks or even plain old copper?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It would be nice it every manufacturer provided a ph level for their products.


I haven't had any issues so far and my loop includes one copper waterblock and one nickel-plated copper waterblock.


----------



## ramkatral

I use Petra's PH neutral just to be safe. However, I got buildup with no biocide at all. Got it with biocide too.


----------



## Dredknot

So i redid all my tubing, with the same Primochill as before but this time with no dead water. Ill give it another week and check.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> I thought Copper Sulfate was a big no no for nickel plated blocks or even plain old copper?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It would be nice it every manufacturer provided a ph level for their products.


That was the (and still maybe) the EK nickel issue. Their "findings" said copper sulfate biocides and silver caused the nickel corrosion on their blocks. Only one other company has made the same claim (well, sort of, through rma denials, no official scientific study conducted), Koolance.

As I have said in my thread before, if you plan to use EK nickel products, whether its their new "EN" plating process, don't run silver or biocides with copper sulfate. Even Ek sends you a disclaimer with their nickel products that using these bio control systems may cause "degrading" of the nickel and will void your warranty.

Any other block maker, including those who make nickel plated blocks, have not made such accusations to avoid shoddy manufacturing.

http://www.overclock.net/t/915966/please-read-before-purchasing-ek-nickel-plated-blocks-update-revised-plating-info


----------



## Kokin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> I thought Copper Sulfate was a big no no for nickel plated blocks or even plain old copper?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It would be nice it every manufacturer provided a ph level for their products.


I've been running distilled water + 4 drops of Copper Sulfate (Dead Water) for close to 4 weeks now, so I can vouch for it being fine. My tubing is still as clear as Day1 and all my blocks are copper/acetal. I avoided adding a silver kill though.


----------



## bigkahuna360

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kokin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> I thought Copper Sulfate was a big no no for nickel plated blocks or even plain old copper?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It would be nice it every manufacturer provided a ph level for their products.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been running distilled water + 4 drops of Copper Sulfate (Dead Water) for close to 4 weeks now, so I can vouch for it being fine. My tubing is still as clear as Day1 and all my blocks are copper/acetal. I avoided adding a silver kill though.
Click to expand...

Wow you really put a lot of Dead Water in?! How massive is your loop?


----------



## Kokin

I accidentally put double the amount I wanted to. I thought it was 2 drops per liter, but I was mistaken. Is it bad to have too much though?


----------



## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kokin*
> 
> I accidentally put double the amount I wanted to. I thought it was 2 drops per liter, but I was mistaken. Is it bad to have too much though?


Could (potentially) cause some buildup. Just watch your loop, if you start seeing anything unusual then drain it and use less.


----------



## Kokin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superericla*
> 
> Could (potentially) cause some buildup. Just watch your loop, if you start seeing anything unusual then drain it and use less.


Gotcha thanks.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramkatral*
> 
> I use Petra's PH neutral just to be safe. However, I got buildup with no biocide at all. Got it with biocide too.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramkatral*
> 
> I should get the title changed to Plasticizer problems/gallery.


I would add the word "tube" to the thread title. Just my









Any one get any recent word from Primochill. Its been about two weeks now and they haven't replied to me. I've long given up since I know when a company turns their back on their customers (EK







)


----------



## Dredknot

Any one get any recent word from Primochill. Its been about two weeks now and they haven't replied to me. I've long given up since I know when a company turns their back on their customers (EK







)[/quote]

Nope still waiting for a reply i dont think they are dealing with individual customers anymore.


----------



## Ivan TSI

Can someone get in touch with Performance-pcs to know if they have a new batch from Primochill without problems???


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ivan TSI*
> 
> Can someone get in touch with Performance-pcs to know if they have a new batch from Primochill without problems???


http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=contact_us

Good luck, their cs can be a bit lacking sometimes tbh


----------



## Vrwings

Bought PrimoChill Ice coolant and their PrimoFlex Black Pro LTR tubing from Amazon direct from Tyler Industries. New build underway so no report on problems in performance as yet. However, I was not pleased to see the condition of the products. Heavy shelf/storage damage to packaging. Products seem intact but hard to tell until it is placed into service. No inventory age codes so no way to confirm the "3 year shelf life" limit has been long past (but the look of it suggests this may well be so. This looked exactly like a company flushing out any product they had left in stock before they lock the doors. I hope this is not the case here. If the company expects to survive the current troubles they need to get on top of such problems and reach out to their customers fast. If not they will be history.

Anyone have experience with out-of-date PrimoChill coolant? Only test I know of is the current conductance test. Any others?


----------



## ramkatral

Why use coolant? It's a waste of money. Just use distilled water + biocide


----------



## Vrwings

As first water cooling project I was convinced that the low conductance, favorable (until recently) reviews, and minimizing risks (LOL) seemed the thing to do. I am now giving it a new look.
Thanks...


----------



## ramkatral

Yea, the whole non conductive thing is a scam. As soon as it's in your loop and mingling with dust particles and such, it's conductive again. Not only that, but Distilled water is just as non conductive.


----------



## Buntz

Brought a 10 ft pack of Primochill Pro LRT black tubing on 12/27/2011 from FrozenCPU. Run it for a month and the inside is white. I run Distill water and PTNuke-cu. No Silver Kill coil. Just brought another 10ft pack last Wednesday 3/14/2012. Did not find this thread in time. Did a little experiment on the left is the tubing after I took it out. On the right is after the tubing was soaking in pure vinegar for about 15 mins.



Edit - That did not work. After laying in the vinegar for almost 2 hours I took the piece of tubing out ,wash it off and let it dry. The white film came back..


----------



## jackofhearts495

I'd appreciate it greatly if you'd put that in the Tubing Gallery (link in sig), Buntz


----------



## Buntz

Done


----------



## Mayhem

There is no point testing in a plastic cup. PMSL that all so contains plasticizer.

If you going to run real test then i suggest you get a leech free aluminium bottle. These are used to transport Medical water which has been filtered and sterilised and will keep that way in such bottles. that way your tests are not contaminated from external sources.

If you would like plasticizer less tubing then it will not bend as well as plasticizer tubing. E.g get some John guest tubing as this is stiff how ever does not leach. It comes in many colour and there is no clear version. John Guest tubing is used in water petrifaction systems and has much better tolerance then most branded so called water cooling tubing and its £0.25p a meter.

In our testing we have reverted back to Clearflex because it may not be as bendable as some of the named brands how ever it all so doest seem to cloud up or leach plasticizer like the main brands neither. Its only £1.00 per meter and can be found for as little as £0.50p a meter. If you after better Coloured tubing look at tubing used in the chemical industry for mixing toxic fluids or moving them around.


----------



## Ceadderman

Real glassware is best for running these kinds of tests as there is nothing that can foul the experiment. It truly is leech free, where as aluminum is difficult to guarantee that.









~Ceadder


----------



## Captivate

I bought 10ft of Primochill UV Blue tubing early March. Disassembled my loop after one week and it has a lot of white coating. Not good







Any other tubing that doesn't suck?


----------



## lowfat

Have some results from my Primoflex. Used two different sizes. 3/8" ID 5/8" OD and 3/8" ID 1/2" OD. All blocks and radiators were thoroughly cleaned. Coolant was Ice Dragon Cooling nanofluid. The 3/8" ID 5/8" OD stuff was perfectly clear (bought sometime this winter from either NCIX or PPCS). The 3/8" ID 1/2" OD stuff was cloudy (bought Jan-Feb from PPCS)







You couldn't tell w/ the IDC in the loop though. It still looked perfectly white. Loop was running 24/7 for about 5-6 weeks.


----------



## jackofhearts495

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captivate*
> 
> I bought 10ft of Primochill UV Blue tubing early March. Disassembled my loop after one week and it has a lot of white coating. Not good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any other tubing that doesn't suck?


Would you mind putting that in the tubing database (link in sig)?


----------



## lowfat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lowfat*
> 
> Have some results from my Primoflex. Used two different sizes. 3/8" ID 5/8" OD and 3/8" ID 1/2" OD. All blocks and radiators were thoroughly cleaned. Coolant was Ice Dragon Cooling nanofluid. The 3/8" ID 5/8" OD stuff was perfectly clear (bought sometime this winter from either NCIX or PPCS). The 3/8" ID 1/2" OD stuff was cloudy (bought Jan-Feb from PPCS)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You couldn't tell w/ the IDC in the loop though. It still looked perfectly white. Loop was running 24/7 for about 5-6 weeks.


I lied. The 3/8" ID 5/8" OD Primoflex now has a brown haze to it.


----------



## wermad

So, I'm breaking down my rig for another upgrade (







) and discovered that the Watts black tube has plasticized. Its been a week only and I've ran distilled, Feser dye (instead of Mayhems), and silver. What's interesting is that some pieces have a more thick-whitish film than others. I'm going to double check all pieces and try to find a pattern (ie. more apparant on the pieces that are come after the blocks, pumps, rads, etc.). I'm not surprised, though I really don't mind since the tube is black and I don't see any signs of debris of clogging.


----------



## mybadomen

I have been testing the tubing on my own because i am using it in my next build. Without Biocide i have no issues at all after running 3 weak now i added 1 drop to see the results and it turned white in less then 3 days again.Biocide is a major problem with it. I had no issues without it and its from the same roll that went bad in 3 days.If you did run biocide you have to flush the heck out of it to get all the biocide out of inside your parts and rads.But after that i see no issue at all.That is in my case at least. and its very strange because its a film on the tubing that will come off.I cleaned some of mine and it looked brand new again.So biocide is bad for it i am 100% sure now.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> I have been testing the tubing on my own because i am using it in my next build. Without Biocide i have no issues at all after running 3 weak now i added 1 drop to see the results and it turned white in less then 3 days again.Biocide is a major problem with it. I had no issues without it and its from the same roll that went bad in 3 days.If you did run biocide you have to flush the heck out of it to get all the biocide out of inside your parts and rads.But after that i see no issue at all.That is in my case at least. and its very strange because its a film on the tubing that will come off.I cleaned some of mine and it looked brand new again.So biocide is bad for it i am 100% sure now.


I never run biocides, only silver, but this time around I had this happen with and without. In my situation, I believe silver may not entirely be at fault. As far as liquid biocides, I really don't have a lot of experience with them but I would say it may have a probable chance of interacting (chemical reaction) with tube.

In light of your findings,







, I'm going to remove my silver and run pure distilled. I have a brand new roll of Watts and we'll see what happens with distilled only. I know some ppl have already reported it has happened with just distilled. I wanna find out first hand


----------



## Klinkey

Is the plasticizer problem one of only visuals or is it a technical problem as well? e.g. more leakage, broken pumps and stuff.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klinkey*
> 
> Is the plasticizer problem one of only visuals or is it a technical problem as well? e.g. more leakage, broken pumps and stuff.


I haven't heard of any direct or harmful effects on loops. The most common concern is aesthetics tbh, since ppl invest a bit more for the dyes/liquids/coolants. It may pose a concern with clogging say a cpu block's fins, but that would cause little to no issues. And if you keep tabs of your temps, I'm sure you can spot something wrong with an unusual temp spike. The particulates would probably have little impact on the pump unless its a huge chunk or something.


----------



## Klinkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> I haven't heard of any direct or harmful effects on loops. The most common concern is aesthetics tbh, since ppl invest a bit more for the dyes/liquids/coolants. It may pose a concern with clogging say a cpu block's fins, but that would cause little to no issues. And if you keep tabs of your temps, I'm sure you can spot something wrong with an unusual temp spike. The particulates would probably have little impact on the pump unless its a huge chunk or something.


Thanks


----------



## ramkatral

I have yet to have any performance issues at all from it.


----------



## mybadomen

Hiya Guys i did allot more researching on the correct way to flush Radiators and Vinegar it seems is the correct way to flush them.I removes the Left over flux from the solder you have to use a certain kind though.

Here read this :

Ok, so I found some vinegar in Tesco which is described as being "Distilled vinegar" and claims to be made from barley malt. It's clear in appearance and is about 4.5% acidic. It's only 45p for 17 fl oz. What do you think?

I also managed to dig out the e-mail I got from Steve in March:

The most common way of flushing the radiator is to fill it with warm water and vinegar. Then flush it through with distilled water and then use it. This removes any surplus flux from the soldering or any impurities that might be there.

Kind regards

If anyone is interested in more i can send them some links but it now has been months i have been researching flushing systems and Clear tubing problems including many many hands on tests of Clear tubing's.

First off Biocide containing Copper Sulfate in my tests have every time turned clear tubing white in 3 days or even less.Just one drop will turn it white. I also ran a kill coil and in my tests it had no effects on the tubing but the longest run was roughly 3 week's. I have found that even flushing your new rads with distilled water for hours you still have the chance of having excess flux slowly coming out of the rads and messing up your tubing.

Ever since i had an issue with clear tubing and then seen the problem everywhere and with all brands of clear tubing, I started researching & testing immediately and made it my mission to solve this problem as my Mass Effect build will be running clear tubing.

After some flushing and testing using only a kill coil i have got the same bad tubing staying clear now.

So 2 things Biocide containing Copper Sulfate WILL definitely destroy clear soft tubing.and leave a white film behind in a very short period of time.

Leftover flux will also destroy clear tubing, it just clouds it slower but will eventually destroy the tubing.

Hope this helps guys i have TONS of tubing and will be testing it for a long time to come with different coolants Additives etc as time goes on.Basically it turned into my new hobby. Maby eventually i will contact some companies and try to get them to send me different coolants and additives to see which will ruin the tubing.But for now it has been just a personal hobby of mine that i cant get out of my head until it is 100% solved.

There should be no reason we cant run clear tubing without worrying about it discoloring or clouding and i will do my best to find the best answer
.
Hope you guys find this a little useful because i have many many hours into this little new project of mine.And i wont quit till its solved.

Take Care MybadOmen

Ps here is the right Vinegar type:



Also this is what the Flux stuff looks like that slowly will come out of a rad even after flushing with distilled many times.

(This Test was not performed by me just something i found while researching and this is from a new Radiator that was already flushed with distilled)


----------



## Cheezit73

Hey Mybadomen,

I am getting ready to flush my rads for my first ever loop and am concerned about doing the best way. So it sounds like you have done a lot of research on this vinegar method. I have this at home does it look like it would work?


















It comes from COSTCO.


----------



## wermad

I buy a few gallons of distilled and flush with that. Nuff said


----------



## Systemlord

Isn't flux black in color or am I mistaken? I have also seen member's used distilled/vinegar water to flush their loop, but with an inline filter slowly after time black stuff was collecting in the filter! It's nice to have a filter inline using quick disconnects!


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Isn't flux black in color or am I mistaken? I have also seen member's used distilled/vinegar water to flush their loop, but with an inline filter slowly after time black stuff was collecting in the filter! It's nice to have a filter inline using quick disconnects!


I flush the rads on their own. Most of the debris is whitish, grayish color almost resembling damp cotton.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Isn't flux black in color or am I mistaken? I have also seen member's used distilled/vinegar water to flush their loop, but with an inline filter slowly after time black stuff was collecting in the filter! It's nice to have a filter inline using quick disconnects!
> 
> 
> 
> I flush the rads on their own. Most of the debris is whitish, grayish color almost resembling damp cotton.
Click to expand...

Will dye plug up the filter?


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Will dye plug up the filter?


If it does you'll notice an increase in temps plus the visual flow indicator will slowdown, it would be much easier to remove the plugged up filter (using QDC's) for cleaning rather than disassembling the entire loop for cleaning!


----------



## Capt Proton

"Brian Farrell" from Primochill has sent replacement tubing for my LRT UV Blue. He states that the problem is not with their tubing, it is most likely flux from ROHS rads. I explained that is not the case for me, as my Thermochill rad is over 4 years old and I have never seen issues like this, especially stuff floating on the surface of the water in the reservoir. He still insists it is not the tubing.

Deny it long enough and the issue will fade away. I wish companies would realize they will obtain higher loyalty from their customers if they just stand up and admit when there is a problem and just fix it instead of refusing to take any responsibility. As they are replacing the tubing, to me they are as good as admitting there is a problem.

*THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE!*


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> "Brian Farrell" from Primochill has sent replacement tubing for my LRT UV Blue. He states that the problem is not with their tubing, it is most likely flux from ROHS rads. I explained that is not the case for me, as my Thermochill rad is over 4 years old and I have never seen issues like this, especially stuff floating on the surface of the water in the reservoir. He still insists it is not the tubing.
> Deny it long enough and the issue will fade away. I wish companies would realize they will obtain higher loyalty from their customers if they just stand up and admit when there is a problem and just fix it instead of refusing to take any responsibility. As they are replacing the tubing, to me they are as good as admitting there is a problem.
> *THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE!*


 Very strange because I flushed my rads many times with Distilled and don't believe it till I cleaned my rads with Vinegar flush then the same tubing that turned white in 3 weeks is now running crystal clear.. Also I have been testing the tubing a long time now and know that just 1 drop of biocide destroys it . But like I said and found in the tons of testing I have done of the tubing.i also believe it is to do with the flux and biocides used.

I had a severe problem with this and I fixed it and now can run the exact tubing something is not right there.

Also you do realize its not just Primochill right? If you research the problem it's any clear tubing basically .
I thought Brian did a great job working on resolving the issue and its extremely hard getting in touch with him recently do to the fact they have been testing the tubing and trying to duplicate the problem. Just like I have been doing.

I had crystal clear tubing and the water was crystal clear . And I flushed the hell out of my rads and whole system. And it still didn't resolve the issue so I to believed it was the tubing because my water was crystal clear.

I posted this same thing the other day .It drove me nuts and I had to test the tubing . Almost an obsession .It has become.

Can the white in your tubing be scraped off? Almost like . A powder?If so that sound exactly like the Flux issue to me. Unless you have a different issue.

Was there biocide in the loop? very interested to know because I would like to try and duplicate the issue.

Just want to be clear the couple months of testing is not affiliated in any way with Primochill or Amy other company. I am testing on my own just because I had the issue 3 times . Before I finally figured out it was biocide that was doing it first . Then I flushed everything all day . Overkill flush and went through roughly 4 gallons of Distilled and used air also. Still it started turning white with no biocide after about 2 weeks finally I found the big article where the guy brought the crystal clear water to work and mixed it in some lab machine. Forget the name but it spins it . That's when they found the excess flux was still coming out and they also listed the fix which was a correct flushing of rads which was done with. Distilled malt vinegar under 5 acidity.

Worked for me honestly mate I would try it and then do a good Distilled flush after.

And when done make sure you don't add Copper Sulphate to the loop which is found in most biocides . And some coolants

Hope this helps but I have also spoke with Brian about the issue months ago and got replacement tubing. And you have to realize a few things. They have been testing the tubing for problems since this all came about. And also it's not just Primochill .

Any way I would love to try whatever you ran in your loop to try and duplicate the issue. I am very curious about this whole tubing issue and I don't doubt you at all .that it happened because same thing happened to me and at first people kept saying flush my system . Which I did a ton of times and it was the same rads I used in a few builds.

Any way would love it if you could Pm me with exactly what was in your loop so I can recreate the issue.

Take care mate and thanks for sharing.

Like I said testing tubing just became my new hobby is all and I enjoy doing it. Only Clear I am testing at the moment because you can see the results right away.

MybadOmen

Just another member trying to help out by devoting tons of time on this issue is all.


----------



## Ceadderman

I believe in his case it's not Flux. The Radiator is 4 years old after all. Apparently this is the first time it's happened to him. If it was flux it would have happened near or at the beginning of his foray into water cooling, not later. But I think that if he's using a biocide and may have added too much that could explain it. I wasn't there so I can only speculate as to what the cause of the problem is.









Thanks for doing the testing MBO. I'm sure it's appreciated by all. Definitely deserves Rep.









~Ceadder


----------



## ramkatral

You know, some of the issues may be flux. That doesn't mean every case is going to be flux, mybadomen. I'm pretty sure most rads that are that old and been run that long are pretty cleared of flux.

Just to add a point to the discussion, my BLACK tubing is doing it, which is what started the discussion. Yes, it's a powder that can be scraped off. However, I DID flux my rads thoroughly with vinegar. I always have. After a good flush, I installed the loop and ran water and kill coil only, no copper sulfate. Interestingly enough, it still did it. You can't always cover for the manufacturers. Sometimes they screw up, and PrimoChill especially seems to have had a bad run lately.


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramkatral*
> 
> You know, some of the issues may be flux. That doesn't mean every case is going to be flux, mybadomen. I'm pretty sure most rads that are that old and been run that long are pretty cleared of flux.
> Just to add a point to the discussion, my BLACK tubing is doing it, which is what started the discussion. Yes, it's a powder that can be scraped off. However, I DID flux my rads thoroughly with vinegar. I always have. After a good flush, I installed the loop and ran water and kill coil only, no copper sulfate. Interestingly enough, it still did it. You can't always cover for the manufacturers. Sometimes they screw up, and PrimoChill especially seems to have had a bad run lately.


I am not saying it is only Flux.Biocide i mentioned does it in 1 to 3 days will turn it completely white if it contains copper sulfate. I also stated i was still testing . I actually enjoy doing it and it helps the whole community the more people that are trying to fix the problem.Only letting you know my experience from researching and testing.But there is really so many different combinations of hardware that it takes more then what i can input to solve the whole issue.I can only help play a part in helping.I do know that i had the tubing turn pure white on me .Then i fixed the issue with that specific setup by flushing it and rerunning with no biocide.I had clear tubing with clear water.The for a test i added just 1 drop of biocide to the loop and on day 2 i pulled the tubing from the build it turned white again.

*So i can for sure say this:*

New rads should be flushed with more then just distilled water

Bioceide containing Copper Sulphate will turn the tubing white with a powder substance left on the tubing.

That's about all i can really input on the matter at this time but i do know that Companies, not mentioning their names have been extremely busy testing this issue even in the labs.And they can only sometimes reproduce the issue.And there is just so many new cooling products out there now that it could be any mix of water cooling part causing it.

So basically i am one person. If a bunch more jump on the issue we will eventually solve the issue. But i do not believe that all of a sudden Tubing from all manufacturers changed around the same time.This issue is found in almost any soft tubing available which i would say clearly shows its not a tubing issue.But something else causing it. I have used clear tubing many many times in the past and did everything you could think of wrong and it never turned white.Maby green from not cleaning it or adding biocides but never this new issue.

I believe they changed the name of the thread because its not just one company and it sounds crazy that all those manufacturers that had highly recommended tubing including Primochill would go change there tubing that they had high success with.

Wasting time only chasing after the Tubing being the problem i think is the wrong path.There is definitely something else going on.

Like i said just trying to help by testing different things and reporting the results. I could just come on spit out a company name and say this tubing is no good. But does that help us honestly?

Everyone loved Primochill now all of a sudden its bad tubing? Trust me when i first got the issue i thought that to till after running it flushed with no biocide the same tubing in the same setup for 4 weeks with no discoloration.

So no i don't have all the answers , no Brian don't have all the answers and No none of the companies have all the answers.That leaves us a few choices.

Run hard Tubing we cant make nice bends with.
Run colored tubing so we don't see the problem

Or we can all come together and try to fix the problem.

at least 70% of this thread is just trolling and the rest as actually trying to figure it out.Including the companies . They know the issue is here and they obviously want it solved and are working on it. I try to put my self in their shoes and you know how many different water cooling parts their are and any just one of them could be causing an issue.

Anyway my posts were not meant to say the problem is just do one thing and its all fixed.Their are still issues. But what i can say is i can run the same Tubing in the same setup and run it clear.and run it and turn it pure white in the same machine.So i can purposely cause the white tubing issue now by just adding a little biocide containing copper sulfate.

I will keep testing anyway because like i said i enjoy it. But there is no way i will have all the answers i am just one person.But i did give some good advice right? we know a couple things from the tests i did so far.I had 2 issues clearly in 1 loop. 1 Was a flux issue and and other a biocide issue.

This is Plasticizer and look what brand tubing he fixed the issue with. So please realize there is more then one thing going on here:

Some are running certain brands with no issues while others are running the same exact tubing and having the issue.
*
Read this: http://www.overclock.net/t/1170357/plasticizer-leaching-stay-away-from-tygon-3603-tubing*

*And there are tons more like it from all manufacturers.*

Take care guys and hope we get this issue solved because i need it solved very soon







for my own new build. my new build is all one brand cooling setup dual loop and will be running clear tubing with colored fluids so we can only wait and see. It seems we have 2 issues 1 is Plasticizer the other is a white almost powder coating on the tubing.

Will keep posting the findings of the testing i am doing or if prefer not i wont post them.Just trying to be helpful as i possibly can.

*Thanks guys and sorry such a long post but this whole subject is something i am somewhat obsessed with now.
*

By the way just wanted to add if anyone thinks i am saying this because i am Sponsored by Primochill .I just want them to know Venom had Primochill in it and my white build before that.I had the issue and still bought Primochill tubing because it is great tubing. Only recently did i get Sponsored by them after having the white issue and after still using the tubing. And my sponsorship and this Testing is nothing to do with one another.I am testing the tubing because i will be running the clear in my new dual loop build system and want to make sure its perfect. *This testing is in no way endorsed or has anything to do with Primochill or any of the other brand tubing i am testing. Just wanted to make that clear before it was brought up.*


----------



## GoodInk

Thanks for all the testing, My test setup has not clouded except for a very slight clouding that happened in the first week. You can't hardly even see it and it's not getting any worse. I might try throwing a rad in there that was only flush with hot water and ran less than 1 year.


----------



## Capt Proton

mybadomen

Sorry, but I find that I cannot rally read your extensive posts thoughly and completely. The grammar and lack of proper capitalization makes it too difficult. Probably because writing properly is a big part of what I do for a living, and that makes it hard to actually read without focusing on the errors. Its not too bad for short posts, but yours ..........
Anyway, Same rad, same liquid (distilled with PT Nuke) for years. All tubing I have ever used clouded over time, but never in a matter of days or weeks. My second loop has traditionally been Clearflex 60 with Zalman ZM-G100 for years. Switched to the same batch of Primochill tubing and boom, almost instant clouding.
Evidence may still be circumstantial, but, it is enough for me. No more Primochill tubing.


----------



## ramkatral

Capt Proton,

Well, Mr. Writer-for-a-living, if you want to jump onto other people about their writing skills, perhaps you should proof read your own.

When officially addressing a letter or writing towards a person, and you begin with their name, it should be followed by a comma.

I'm sure you mean you can't REALLY read his posts, not RALLY read his posts.

The correct word is 'THOROUGHLY', not 'THOUGHLY'.

Also, your use of probably to start the sentence would actually be incorrect. The correct way to start that sentence would be: THAT'S probably because...

Also, 'Its' should actually be 'It's'

Ending a sentence incomplete with multiple periods is only acceptable when paraphrasing a comment, in proper grammar.

Your sentence with 'Anyway, Same rad, rame liquid..." isn't even a sentence.

Is that a run on sentence I see when you're discussing Clearflex 60 and Zalman tubing, or is it simply grammatically broken? No, my apologies, I see what happened. You forgot to put an I after the period and before the word switched.

You don't need a comma before AND after but.

THE evidence could be circumstantial...

You lack a subject in your final sentence. Therefore, it is not a grammatically correct sentence. The subject COULD be the Primochill tubing. However, that would require some restructuring.

Perhaps the fact that I played text based MUSH games for many years growing up has made it so hard to actually read without focusing on all your errors. In any event, there you go, big guy.

What is the moral of this little story, you may ask? Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house. I think that about sums it up.

Mybadomen is a huge contributor, and he is a very talented person. I pay attention to the things he has to add to these subjects. I have learned a great many things while reading through his build logs. I don't believe I've ever read one of your build logs.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> mybadomen
> Sorry, but I find that I cannot rally read your extensive posts thoughly and completely. The grammar and lack of proper capitalization makes it too difficult. Probably because writing properly is a big part of what I do for a living, and that makes it hard to actually read without focusing on the errors. Its not too bad for short posts, but yours ..........


Cut him some slack. They guy is a very talented modder and has several builds sponsored that are under the gun. He's got enough going on that he's nice enough to contribute some of his very limited time. I really hate when ppl start nitpicking other's gramm*E*r! I'm sure this is why so many members abandon ocn because they feel persecuted if gramm*A*r is not their forte or their native language. $hi7, I make mistakes all the time but I don't give a crap. And if someone does not understand me, why not simply ask?!?!?!?!? I do that when I don't understand someone but I do it politely.

Anyways, I do agree with your second part of your statement:
Quote:


> Anyway, Same rad, same liquid (distilled with PT Nuke) for years. All tubing I have ever used clouded over time, but never in a matter of days or weeks. My second loop has traditionally been Clearflex 60 with Zalman ZM-G100 for years. Switched to the same batch of Primochill tubing and boom, almost instant clouding.
> Evidence may still be circumstantial, but, it is enough for me. No more Primochill tubing.


----------



## jackofhearts495

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> mybadomen
> Sorry, but I find that I cannot rally read your extensive posts thoughly and completely. The grammar and lack of proper capitalization makes it too difficult. Probably because writing properly is a big part of what I do for a living, and that makes it hard to actually read without focusing on the errors. Its not too bad for short posts, but yours ..........


Probably a product of several days without sleep due to an overwhelming dedication to PC modding.


----------



## iCrap

I broke down my loop today and checked the tubes, there was plasticizer (i think). It was some white powdery stuff (i could scrape some of it off). I have Primochill UV Blue which i got from Performance PCs.

I also bought some new Primochill clear about a week ago from microcenter, has anyone found a way to stop the plasticizer? I read something about about rinsing the rads in vinegar or something but im not sure.


----------



## jackofhearts495

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iCrap*
> 
> I broke down my loop today and checked the tubes, there was plasticizer (i think). It was some white powdery stuff (i could scrape some of it off). I have Primochill UV Blue which i got from Performance PCs.
> I also bought some new Primochill clear about a week ago from microcenter, has anyone found a way to stop the plasticizer? I read something about about rinsing the rads in vinegar or something but im not sure.


Seems like the new "trend" in leaching/clouding is flux from rads. The best thing to do would be to vigorously flush out new components before putting them in a loop.


----------



## wermad

My radiators were preowned so I'm sure by the time I got them, any remaining flux would have been purged by their previous owners. I also flushed them myself when I got them.

This theory doesn't explain why my previous Primochill clear, white, black, and red didn't plasticize and I clearely used quite a few *new* radiators then. I don't buy this thing about the rads. Lets not pull an EK and try to scapegoat something else.


----------



## dakreepy1

anyone else see this happen who's using koolance high performance coolant? I just posted on the tubing database, i got the primochill lrt tubing, worked fine for an hour or so on distilled water. I then drained and put the koolance coolant, it was definitely cloudy at first, which i thought was just bubbles, left it for 2 days and last night i saw a small amount of white dust in one of my reservoirs (just one side) and all the tubing is cloudy. The water is absolutely clear, so its definitely not any growth especially since i filled things up friday.

I suspect that the biocide reacted with the primochill tubing and caused this. I have read on some other board about a guy who tested a few types of tubing and saw that biocide will turn tubes cloudy, quickly in some cases. Can anyone suggest some tubing where this wont happen (or at least not as rapid). I'm thinking of trying the koolance clear UV reactive 3/8-5/8 tubing to see what that does, i also saw that masterkleer seems to be a good brand as well but i thought the same of the primochill.


----------



## DirectOverkill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dakreepy1*
> 
> Can anyone suggest some tubing where this wont happen (or at least not as rapid).


Get rubber tubes, not plastic ones.


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramkatral*
> 
> Capt Proton,
> Well, Mr. Writer-for-a-living, if you want to jump onto other people about their writing skills, perhaps you should proof read your own.
> When officially addressing a letter or writing towards a person, and you begin with their name, it should be followed by a comma.
> I'm sure you mean you can't REALLY read his posts, not RALLY read his posts.
> The correct word is 'THOROUGHLY', not 'THOUGHLY'.
> Also, your use of probably to start the sentence would actually be incorrect. The correct way to start that sentence would be: THAT'S probably because...
> Also, 'Its' should actually be 'It's'
> Ending a sentence incomplete with multiple periods is only acceptable when paraphrasing a comment, in proper grammar.
> Your sentence with 'Anyway, Same rad, rame liquid..." isn't even a sentence.
> Is that a run on sentence I see when you're discussing Clearflex 60 and Zalman tubing, or is it simply grammatically broken? No, my apologies, I see what happened. You forgot to put an I after the period and before the word switched.
> You don't need a comma before AND after but.
> THE evidence could be circumstantial...
> You lack a subject in your final sentence. Therefore, it is not a grammatically correct sentence. The subject COULD be the Primochill tubing. However, that would require some restructuring.
> Perhaps the fact that I played text based MUSH games for many years growing up has made it so hard to actually read without focusing on all your errors. In any event, there you go, big guy.
> What is the moral of this little story, you may ask? Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house. I think that about sums it up.
> Mybadomen is a huge contributor, and he is a very talented person. I pay attention to the things he has to add to these subjects. I have learned a great many things while reading through his build logs. I don't believe I've ever read one of your build logs.


My oh my. The observations above are, for the most part, quite correct. Please note that I started with an apology. My actual intent was not to flame, although I can see how it might be construed as such. To prove that aspect, I shall not attempt to rebut your comments, simply accept the karma that brought it on.
I am wounded.


----------



## DevilDriver

I just put Primochill PrimoFlex PRO LRT uv red tubing in my loop.
After it runs for a wile I'll let you all know how its doing. I'm crossing my fingers it doesn't cloud up..
rinsed out my rad and blocks with distilled, and am using distilled and kill coil only.
Rad was ran by my brother for ever without tygon tubing ever clouding up.


----------



## Dredknot

Well here it is... After only 1 month of using Primochill LRT 1/2 ID tubing this is what my tubing looks like. Running plain distilled water.


----------



## jeffblute

Sorry I don't have any pics.
But I just swapped out my Black promochill LRT tubing and cut a few ends off so I could see if I had any leaching going on. I found nothing inside the tubing I cut open, it was as clean as the day I put it in.
Provided this was only after 2 - 3 months of constant use I was surprised.

Running steam distilled water and Silver Kill Coil, no additives


----------



## wermad

I want to go back to clear









Anyone have any luck with MasterKleer tube?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


----------



## jackofhearts495

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> I want to go back to clear
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone have any luck with MasterKleer tube?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


3 people in the database have tried it without a problem, but for some reason I'm inclined to say that it's not great tubing.

No one's had any problems with the Tygon Beverage tubing to the best of my knowledge.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackofhearts495*
> 
> 3 people in the database have tried it without a problem, but for some reason I'm inclined to say that it's not great tubing.
> No one's had any problems with the Tygon Beverage tubing to the best of my knowledge.


Thanks Jack. I did hear someone say the Tygon Beverage turned yellow after they put it in their loop. Let me find the link...


----------



## GoodInk

Well I've been up and running 24/7 for over a month now with no clouding clear Promochill LRT. Same stuff I had on the test setup that is still clear too. Now time to figure out why my Blood Red keeps getting darker, looks like grape purple now.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Well I've been up and running 24/7 for over a month now with no clouding clear Promochill LRT. Same stuff I had on the test setup that is still clear too. Now time to figure out why my Blood Red keeps getting darker, looks like grape purple now.


Nice









I've been hearing ppl talking about doing a thorough rinse using a vinegar and distilled solution. I'm going to give it a try and then use the cheap Watts tube from HD.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Well I've been up and running 24/7 for over a month now with no clouding clear Promochill LRT. Same stuff I had on the test setup that is still clear too. Now time to figure out why my Blood Red keeps getting darker, looks like grape purple now.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been hearing ppl talking about doing a thorough rinse using a vinegar and distilled solution. I'm going to give it a try and then use the cheap Watts tube from HD.
Click to expand...

Well my rad was wet when I got it. I just guessed they did a leak test, but they could have rinsed it too. I tape some tubing to my sink and run hot water through it for about 20-30 mins. The dump it through a white paper towel or coffee filter to look for any particles or discoloration. I did have to run it about 5-10 more mins because of discoloration. Then a couple rinses with distilled water.

I just thought of something about the people saying that they are using rads for awhile saying it couldn't be flux. The flux is going to stay in your loop no matter how long you run it. Flux needs to be warm to flow, so if you drain your loop and it's not hot, then it stays in your loop. This is why it's sticking to our tubes. I'm not saying this is everyone's problem, as I think we are dealing with more than one cause.


----------



## DevilDriver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Well my rad was wet when I got it. I just guessed they did a leak test, but they could have rinsed it too. I tape some tubing to my sink and run hot water through it for about 20-30 mins. The dump it through a white paper towel or coffee filter to look for any particles or discoloration. I did have to run it about 5-10 more mins because of discoloration. Then a couple rinses with distilled water.
> I just thought of something about the people saying that they are using rads for awhile saying it couldn't be flux. The flux is going to stay in your loop no matter how long you run it. Flux needs to be warm to flow, so if you drain your loop and it's not hot, then it stays in your loop. This is why it's sticking to our tubes. I'm not saying this is everyone's problem, as I think we are dealing with more than one cause.


With that note, it makes me wonder. my tygon tubing didnt cloud bad but my watt's from HomeDepot did.
The 120MM Dangerden Black Ice exterme GTX I have has some thing in it you can hear when you shake it.
Needless to say it is no longer a part of my loop, so curious to see if my new Primochill tubing even clouds up at all.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DevilDriver*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Well my rad was wet when I got it. I just guessed they did a leak test, but they could have rinsed it too. I tape some tubing to my sink and run hot water through it for about 20-30 mins. The dump it through a white paper towel or coffee filter to look for any particles or discoloration. I did have to run it about 5-10 more mins because of discoloration. Then a couple rinses with distilled water.
> I just thought of something about the people saying that they are using rads for awhile saying it couldn't be flux. The flux is going to stay in your loop no matter how long you run it. Flux needs to be warm to flow, so if you drain your loop and it's not hot, then it stays in your loop. This is why it's sticking to our tubes. I'm not saying this is everyone's problem, as I think we are dealing with more than one cause.
> 
> 
> 
> With that note, it makes me wonder. my tygon tubing didnt cloud bad but my watt's from HomeDepot did.
> The 120MM Dangerden Black Ice exterme GTX I have has some thing in it you can hear when you shake it.
> Needless to say it is no longer a part of my loop, so curious to see if my new Primochill tubing even clouds up at all.
Click to expand...

If it is flux sticking to your tubing, maybe its the smoothness of the tubing.


----------



## frank anderson

Hello, I was wondering if anyone has ever found any solution to this problem?

My tubing Primochill LRT Clear is showing the same symptom, cloudy on the inside and it appears to be a chalk like substance..

I previously used Tygon 3603 which was pretty bad also.. I have 2 loops, both running distilled + silver coil, one with red mayhem's dye and the other blue mayhem's dye..

Its not affecting my temperatures or flow in anyway, monitoring via Aquaero + AIDA64, if the problem is just a limit of what these tubes can handle and they all look this way in one time sooner or later, I'll probably just go with blue / red tubings next, but I do prefer to use my dyes..


----------



## GoodInk

You can try vinegar flush, or a hot water flush like I described just a couple posts back. No guarantees to keep it from doing it though.


----------



## lowfat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Thanks Jack. I did hear someone say the Tygon Beverage turned yellow after they put it in their loop. Let me find the link...


The Tygon B-44-3 has a slight yellow tint to it before it even ever gets coolant in it. So if you are using Ice Dragon you do not want to use this tubing as it will look like urine slightly.









But I haven't actually ran coolant through it yet. I do plan to, just need to finish the case first.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> You can try vinegar flush, or a hot water flush like I described just a couple posts back. No guarantees to keep it from doing it though.


That's what I'm suspecting but I'm hearing it will avoid clouding the tube. My rads where peowned so I'm sure they don't have any flux left in them. Well, thanks for confirming my reservations about this idea. I do flush with hot distilled when I'm changing colors though








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lowfat*
> 
> The Tygon B-44-3 has a slight yellow tint to it before it even ever gets coolant in it. So if you are using Ice Dragon you do not want to use this tubing as it will look like urine slightly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I haven't actually ran coolant through it yet. I do plan to, just need to finish the case first.


Thanks Low, I do recall it was you who mentioned this.


----------



## mybadomen

Anyone find a final solution yet to this? Or is it still hit or miss. I am getting ready to run a bunch of Clear tubing in 2 loops and really don't want to redo it all.Anyone use the red tinted Tubing?I do have some of that i could try.


----------



## douglatins

What the deal here, i have white LRT from primo. Can i be in trouble?


----------



## Raul-7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *douglatins*
> 
> What the deal here, i have white LRT from primo. Can i be in trouble?


It shouldn't matter as it doesn't affect performance and white tubing is opaque meaning you will not notice it. Out of sight, out of mind.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> Anyone find a final solution yet to this? Or is it still hit or miss. I am getting ready to run a bunch of Clear tubing in 2 loops and really don't want to redo it all.Anyone use the red tinted Tubing?I do have some of that i could try.


that's no such thing like clean tubing by the end it will going cloud up some how i had used some tinted red tubing i really don't remember the brand but it cloud in 3 weeks

Edited


----------



## douglatins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raul-7*
> 
> It shouldn't matter as it doesn't affect performance and white tubing is opaque meaning you will not notice it. Out of sight, out of mind.


Thanks i though i could clog blocks and pump


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> Anyone find a final solution yet to this? Or is it still hit or miss. I am getting ready to run a bunch of Clear tubing in 2 loops and really don't want to redo it all.Anyone use the red tinted Tubing?I do have some of that i could try.


Just make sure your Radiators are clear of Flux(vinegar flush) and I think you'll be fine. There could still be other issues but if your Rads are new or not very old, you'll want to make sure there is no residual Flux floating around in there to gunk your tubing up. I'm getting a used Radiator that seems to have a bit of residual flux, so I'll be doing the same thing to it even though I'm rolling with the PrimoChill White LRT.









Get that vinegar as hot as you can stand it, pour it in fit plugs onto the ports and give it a good shaking. Rinse and repeat.









~Ceadder


----------



## wermad

Going to buy a roll of Watts tube and test just a small piece. Maybe it has improved but only one way to find out


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Just make sure your Radiators are clear of Flux(vinegar flush) and I think you'll be fine. There could still be other issues but if your Rads are new or not very old, you'll want to make sure there is no residual Flux floating around in there to gunk your tubing up. I'm getting a used Radiator that seems to have a bit of residual flux, so I'll be doing the same thing to it even though I'm rolling with the PrimoChill White LRT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get that vinegar as hot as you can stand it, pour it in fit plugs onto the ports and give it a good shaking. Rinse and repeat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Thanks Mate!


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Just make sure your Radiators are clear of Flux(vinegar flush) and I think you'll be fine. There could still be other issues but if your Rads are new or not very old, you'll want to make sure there is no residual Flux floating around in there to gunk your tubing up. I'm getting a used Radiator that seems to have a bit of residual flux, so I'll be doing the same thing to it even though I'm rolling with the PrimoChill White LRT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get that vinegar as hot as you can stand it, pour it in fit plugs onto the ports and give it a good shaking. Rinse and repeat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Mate!
Click to expand...

No problem.

Just got the Radiator today...


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Random pic from fB to keep y'all interested













Yeah I would say there is some Flux residue in the Radiator.









~Ceadder


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Random pic from fB to keep y'all interested
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


----------



## wermad

Sorry to double post folks









Ok, so went to Homes to grab a new roll of Watts. I had a hunch I needed to find some sort of clue that indicated the tube had been changed. Well, I might have found one. It may seem a bit far fetch, but hey, what the heck. Might as well spend a few bucks and maybe find something. So, the first few rolls of Watts clear vinyl tube I used had several hash marks printed on them. I really don't know what their purpose was; maybe to indicate length or something like that. This time, I dug behind the first ones in the bin and noticed the back ones (most likely the fresh ones) had fewer and thicker marks on them. So this might be the clue I was looking for. I didn't notice anything on the label though I didn't find any manufacturing date (damn, should have looked at the bin box). Brought it home, looks about the same as I remember. Cut a small piece and added it to the end of my loop. I don't have a my new psu yet so I have a few days or a week to run this piece (using a jumped spare psu) to see how it holds


----------



## mybadomen

*Just wanted to show a real quick look at what comes out of a brand new Rad when doing a Vinegar Flush :*
*
Here is my Toilet bowl before dumping the vinegar flush from my Brand new out of the Box Radiators:*



*And here is what comes out pf a Brand new rad. Distilled alone does not clean the rads ad good as this does:

Any way here is what comes out:*



*
If interested i explain and show the Whole process of what i was doing and am still doing as of this moment here:

Please Take a Look : (But if you want to talk about what i did please bring the discusion back here.I rather keep it out of the build log please) :

http://www.overclock.net/t/1222200/sponsored-mass-effect-3-nzxt-switch-810-build-log/580#post_16983478

Love to hear what you guys think of this.*


----------



## Ceadderman

Mine wasn't nearly that dark, but I attribute this to being a used Rad and the flux lining discarded tubing.









~Ceadder


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Mine wasn't nearly that dark, but I attribute this to being a used Rad and the flux lining discarded tubing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Did you use the Warm Distilled Vinegar? Because the distilled water does nothing really at all for flushing them.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Mine wasn't nearly that dark, but I attribute this to being a used Rad and the flux lining discarded tubing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you use the Warm Distilled Vinegar? Because the distilled water does nothing really at all for flushing them.
Click to expand...

500ml of Boiling hot(nuked it in the microwave) vingegar over multiple shake/sits til Pyrex Cup Measure was empty.

2x500ml of 50/50 same as before.

2x500ml of Distilled piping hot same as previous two sessions.

500ml Distilled Cold rinse.

Couldn't get less than 5% acidity Vinegar. Used Wal-Mart brand Distilled. Flux in the thread bungs completely gone.









~Ceadder


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*


So, this pic got me thinking. Could the greenish color be from any patina in the brass or copper? It looks very close to patina coloration when debris in the loop picks up this greenish color.

Well, I have the new tube in, so I'll find out if holds or not


----------



## Ceadderman

Well it very well could be since vinegar is acidic. So I don't think anyone can say for sure without a degree in chemistry werm. It's probably a combination of Flux and Copper Green. I can't say for certain of course but it wouldn't surprise me.









~Ceadder


----------



## frank anderson

Took apart my loop, found this inside..

Red / Blue Mayhem's dye, Silver Coil, Primochill Pro LRT clear tubing..



















Tubing cut.. The substance is not "gui" at all, more like a "powder" feel, a simple touch scrapes it.


















I have since then flushed out everything in my loop and now using Primochill Pro LRT Red and Blue tubings w/ silver coil only.. Lets see where that goes..









Added pics of the blocks, clean as the day I installed them... also note add: The previous loop was only 3 months old..


----------



## cpachris

did it leave the same film inside your blocks also? or just the tubing?


----------



## frank anderson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cpachris*
> 
> did it leave the same film inside your blocks also? or just the tubing?


Just the tubing, I forgot to post pics of the block, will do so now, Thx..


----------



## Ceadderman

I decided to just go straight distilled. No additives no silver killcoil. Only running Copper Brass and Nickel anyway so Killcoil probably would have been overkill. I have it, just am not using it.

GLW your fresh tubing frank. Hope things work out for the best.









~Ceadder


----------



## Kokin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I decided to just go straight distilled. No additives no silver killcoil. Only running Copper Brass and Nickel anyway so Killcoil probably would have been overkill. I have it, just am not using it.
> GLW your fresh tubing frank. Hope things work out for the best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


No type of PT Nuke either? I'm doing the same thing with pure distilled water and a couple drops of Dead Water. Plasticizer has appeared in my tubing, but it is very very light and has not thicken like the pictures above. I'm using UV Blue tubing from Masterkleer.


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kokin*
> 
> No type of PT Nuke either? I'm doing the same thing with pure distilled water and a couple drops of Dead Water. Plasticizer has appeared in my tubing, but it is very very light and has not thicken like the pictures above. I'm using UV Blue tubing from Masterkleer.


I already confirmed with multiple tests even 1 drop of Dead water will destroy the clear tubing in a matter of 2 to 3 days. I did this test multiple times. And every time it destroyed the tubing.Longest it last with Dead Water was 3 days.

So i would avoid and Copper Sulphate additive at the moment .

Just some advice is all.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frank anderson*


Smexy









Day one with the Watts tube and so far so good


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Smexy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Day one with the Watts tube and so far so good


Lol i know i was looking at them cards like 10 times now thinking the same


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kokin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I decided to just go straight distilled. No additives no silver killcoil. Only running Copper Brass and Nickel anyway so Killcoil probably would have been overkill. I have it, just am not using it.
> GLW your fresh tubing frank. Hope things work out for the best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No type of PT Nuke either? I'm doing the same thing with pure distilled water and a couple drops of Dead Water. Plasticizer has appeared in my tubing, but it is very very light and has not thicken like the pictures above. I'm using UV Blue tubing from Masterkleer.
Click to expand...

Nope. Nothing. Straight up Wal-Mart brand Distilled and nothing else.









Of course my tubing isn't opaque so take it for what it's worth. No sunlight shines into my system so no worry about natural light building up algae in the loop. The only bit of Nickel I have in my system is my FC block and there is zero aluminum in the loop. Thought about it and just figured there is no need for my killcoil.









Yes those CARDS are right dead secsi with their copper panties showing.









~Ceadder


----------



## mybadomen

*Ok guys after all the testing i did and eliminating 1 thing at a time from the Loops and flushing the 4 Rads to death (3 different brand Rads)
*
*Here are the results. I am making this short and sweet and will do a full write up on it later!

*
*I discovered from my testing regardless if people want to debate it distilled water flushes did absolutely nothing at all!

Biocides containing Copper sulphate accelerated this problem but wasn't the problem. Nor kill coils.

Did a Vinegar flush immediately followed by many gallons and days of flushing with Steamed distilled water before starting new tests.

Tubing clouding or whitening whatever you would like to call it slowed down after the %5 acidity Distilled vinegar or below Flush followed by days of distilled water flushing.

But was still there Longest tubing lasted 4 days so every single test the tubing failed in 4 days or less running only distilled water and i went through Loads of distilled water and loads of tubing!
*
*Here is what you all seen a million times before. And the whole thing i am trying to help solve which many just spit out BAD TUBING and call it a day without testing anything!*





*Looks very Familiar don't it? Well you can flush your rads to death with distilled and this is what you will still see. Believe me when i say if you knew haw many different times i changes water flushed changed rads you name it the results were always the same.(Photo's above)

Just so you all know when i did the Distilled water flushes not much came out of the rads. but when i did a quick Distilled Vinegar flush this is how pretty the stuff that looked came out. Remember these are brand new rads .Just out of the box and flushed for days with distilled water before trying the Vinegar flush!"" 4 Rads 2 used for roughly close to a year and other 2 brand new out of the box.Same results!""
*
*and isn't that pretty :*



*So here is where the Last and final test comes in place which finally rules the tubing being the Problem out!
*
*Very strange loop i had to set up to do this Test because the pump was to powerful .

Any way loop consisted of "Only" 1 Dual Loop Reservoir , 1 Pump , Primochill Clear Tubing and all matching Nickel Compression fittings and Steamed distilled water!

Nothing else at all ! i had to loop the tubing back through both sides of the reservoir because the pump was to powerful to go through only 1 loop with nothing else but tubing.

Here is setup (Funny looking thing but whats needed to accomplish this test

Only things used for this testing! Same batch of clear also. (I had tons of it)*



*First as i did every test i am flushing the Tubing itself to make sure it is clean.Straight into a bucket and dumped (Yes i spent a fortune in 2 months on distilled water just to try and help solve the issue)*



*Tubing day one.
*


*Just showing had to loop through both Sides of the res to keep the pump from going to fast and sucking air: (Single loop)
*


*Here is my funky test setup for now. All new testing equipment is one the way.*

*Tubing test Day 1 !*







*As you can see the Tubing is brand new and crystal clear at this point (still day 1)
*


*Finally Day 4 !! " I Think i Found the Problem Dear Watson! "
*
*Day 4 and not even the slightest amount of clouding.Tubing finally looks as it should .Just like it cam from the Package.By now every other test the Tubing showed slight clouding later on day one and by day 3 to 4 was total trash!
*






*As you can see there is nothing wrong with this Tubing! It is as brand new and clear as the day i put it in the loop!

So finally Success ! After months are heartache and more testing then you could ever imaging !

So i found the Problem finally!

So now is where we ALL have to come together and find a solution.

Please if you come here to TROLL with no proof of testing i will ignore the post .But if you are here to actually try and help solve the issue my ears are wide open.

Tubing and water samples are being sent to the Labs for testing. The first lab testing is where we found biocide ,Flux and silver in the water!

Now these samples of tubing from the last few tests and the final one are going out to be tested also.

dont know about you guys but i want to know what that green stuff is.And i don't believe its the Flux any more i think its something else.

Sorry but i am not going to mention where the problem lies in this Post but if you look and read and think of the last thing eliminated from the loop it is pretty obvious where the problem Lies.

So please as a community with a passion for water cooling. Can someone with a chemistry background give some help from this pint on and tell us what is causing the tubing to could. And its not 1 brand of tubing doing it.Its just most people buy 1 certain brand because its nice tubing!

I am not being paid or endorsed in anyway to do this testing besides i received some free tubing scraps to test with.The rest was all done and paid for by me to help the community Solve this issue.Because i don't know about you guys but i want to run clear tubing again and not worry!

Hope this this answers allot of un answered questions and again this is only the problem now we need a solution.

So lets do it guys! I have all new test equipment on the way and will try any suggestions?

1 thing we need is a better way to get Rads completely clean inside.

2 another nice thing might be a preventive chemical that just prevents the reaction. ( I am no chemist i cant help with this part)

last thing we need is more people's input on a solution.

I have Photos of tons of the testing and can make a huge post somewhere but its rather pointless until we have a solution to fix it. Also 2 manufacturers are also working on a solution that i know of for sure right now.And thats the labs that test the tubing and water i send out.

I really hope this helps you guys get started on some solution.But for me this is super exciting news this is 100% Proof that we are looking for the problem in the wrong place. It is not the tubing that is the issue!

Take care and please read this whole thing through before commenting on it. ( Yes there is probably bad spelling and yes there is most definitely bad Grammar) But who cares . We now know the tubing stays clear until a certain piece of hardware is added to the loop!

Progress fells so good Finally!









Take care my Friends and talk soon

MybadOmen.









*


----------



## superericla

Fantastic work mybadomen!


----------



## wermad

My suspicion is with the brass causing a reaction on the tube. Fittings are made from brass but they usually have a thick nickel plate on them. I'm currently running a small test with clear tube running my loop a few times a day (rig under contruction). Its been about a week and its holding ok


----------



## Ceadderman

You had me convinced with your initial post on Vinegar flush MBO, but that's a helluva job. Somone needs to sticky those two posts. +Rep like a Mutha!









~Ceadder


----------



## jackofhearts495

I'd be happy to talk to the AP Chem teacher at my school (my chem teacher was no help). What would you like me to say?


----------



## mybadomen

*UPDATE*

*On clear tubing Loop! Forgot all about it running! went in and looked. Still as clear as it was so there is nothing changing at all its running clear as new still.*


----------



## covert ash

Considering most radiators are only made, really, by a couple of manufacturers, it's very likely we are all using (essentially) the same basic radiators with the same innards. If the brass being used has any copper as part of the alloy, that could explain the green toilet water that Omen showed up top and what clouding of the tubes. And also why copper sulfate solutions make the clouding even worse!









+ Rep so hard for you Omen!!!







:

So the question is, who is using what radiators? I have a feeling XSPC and Swiftech are going to be high up there. I have two Swiftech QP's of my own, a 320 and 120.


----------



## mybadomen

Problem is we need an additive to prevent the issue from occurring . Or something has to be done.I mentioned no brands because i know for a fact i tested 3 brands and others had same problems with other brands. So this testing was totally non biased.

Only thing i proved is the tubing manufacturers are not to blame. At least not for the white tubing issue.nor can the blame be put on 1 company. solution would seem a chemical that could prevent it from happening . But like i said before i was just real life testing and eliminating things. Chemist i am not unfortunately. But i do have access to send stuff to a lab for testing.


----------



## covert ash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> Problem is we need an additive to prevent the issue from occurring . Or something has to be done.I mentioned no brands because i know for a fact i tested 3 brands and others had same problems with other brands. So this testing was totally non biased.
> Only thing i proved is the tubing manufacturers are not to blame. At least not for the white tubing issue.nor can the blame be put on 1 company. solution would seem a chemical that could prevent it from happening . But like i said before i was just real life testing and eliminating things. Chemist i am not unfortunately. But i do have access to send stuff to a lab for testing.


I think I can safely speak for the rest in saying we really do appreciate all the work you have done!









What's interesting though is that only recently in the last year or so have we really started seeing this problem. It begs the question what has changed?


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *covert ash*
> 
> I think I can safely speak for the rest in saying we really do appreciate all the work you have done!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's interesting though is that only recently in the last year or so have we really started seeing this problem. It begs the question what has changed?


Very true i used the clear many times before.Only withing the Last year the problem accrued. Its still not solved but i have all new test equipment coming and i am going to try something.If it workd then you guys can be really happy









But lets not count our chickens before they hatch .Lol

At least we have it narrowed down so we can work on the problem now.

I agree with wermad and want to try nad test th all brass fittings.Anyone running aluminum rads? Wonder if they could duplicate it.

Know whats really going to bite.I really enjoyed the testing and don't want to stop .Besides the part where my hands are killing me from changing tubing so many times.They cramp after doing compressions a thousand times.Lol

Also have another 100 feet of tubing coming to play with also so i will destroy all of it if needed


----------



## wermad

Fact is still, this just got big recently. Check out my mayhems vs feser thread and the Primochill tube was in great shape throughout a few months.


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Fact is still, this just got big recently. Check out my mayhems vs feser thread and the Primochill tube was in great shape throughout a few months.


Exactly. Clouding of tubing has been always there, but not like I have seen in my own loop. I have had the rad for over 4 years, and the issue was only really noticeable when I used the Primochill LRT. Boom, instant (almost) clouding. There are probably several different issues, however, it is clear to me in my case. No issue, change tubing, issue begins. Its not rocket science.


----------



## MaFi0s0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Just make sure your Radiators are clear of Flux(vinegar flush) and I think you'll be fine. There could still be other issues but if your Rads are new or not very old, you'll want to make sure there is no residual Flux floating around in there to gunk your tubing up. I'm getting a used Radiator that seems to have a bit of residual flux, so I'll be doing the same thing to it even though I'm rolling with the PrimoChill White LRT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get that vinegar as hot as you can stand it, pour it in fit plugs onto the ports and give it a good shaking. Rinse and repeat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Is vinegar a good idea for radiators, I wonder if rinsing would really prevent corrosion.

btw this is from guys flushing their car radiators:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showpost.php?s=dc371e3e150289d901b14f22c5925d36&p=3828492&postcount=14


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaFi0s0*
> 
> Is vinegar a good idea for radiators, I wonder if rinsing would really prevent corrosion.
> btw this is from guys flushing their car radiators:
> http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showpost.php?s=dc371e3e150289d901b14f22c5925d36&p=3828492&postcount=14


To an extent . I used warm distilled vinegar 5% acidity for only 15 minutes then flushed for 4 days before testing. and then was many tests after.

You definitely want the vinegar out of the rad after.


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> Exactly. Clouding of tubing has been always there, but not like I have seen in my own loop. I have had the rad for over 4 years, and the issue was only really noticeable when I used the Primochill LRT. Boom, instant (almost) clouding. There are probably several different issues, however, it is clear to me in my case. No issue, change tubing, issue begins. Its not rocket science.


Thank's that was very helpful .


----------



## fuadm424

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> *Ok guys after all the testing i did and eliminating 1 thing at a time from the Loops and flushing the 4 Rads to death (3 different brand Rads)
> *
> *Here are the results. I am making this short and sweet and will do a full write up on it later!
> *
> *I discovered from my testing regardless if people want to debate it distilled water flushes did absolutely nothing at all!
> Biocides containing Copper sulphate accelerated this problem but wasn't the problem. Nor kill coils.
> Did a Vinegar flush immediately followed by many gallons and days of flushing with Steamed distilled water before starting new tests.
> Tubing clouding or whitening whatever you would like to call it slowed down after the %5 acidity Distilled vinegar or below Flush followed by days of distilled water flushing.
> But was still there Longest tubing lasted 4 days so every single test the tubing failed in 4 days or less running only distilled water and i went through Loads of distilled water and loads of tubing!
> *
> *Here is what you all seen a million times before. And the whole thing i am trying to help solve which many just spit out BAD TUBING and call it a day without testing anything!*
> 
> 
> *Looks very Familiar don't it? Well you can flush your rads to death with distilled and this is what you will still see. Believe me when i say if you knew haw many different times i changes water flushed changed rads you name it the results were always the same.(Photo's above)
> 
> Just so you all know when i did the Distilled water flushes not much came out of the rads. but when i did a quick Distilled Vinegar flush this is how pretty the stuff that looked came out. Remember these are brand new rads .Just out of the box and flushed for days with distilled water before trying the Vinegar flush!"" 4 Rads 2 used for roughly close to a year and other 2 brand new out of the box.Same results!""
> *
> *and isn't that pretty :*
> 
> 
> *So here is where the Last and final test comes in place which finally rules the tubing being the Problem out!
> *
> *Very strange loop i had to set up to do this Test because the pump was to powerful .
> Any way loop consisted of "Only" 1 Dual Loop Reservoir , 1 Pump , Primochill Clear Tubing and all matching Nickel Compression fittings and Steamed distilled water!
> Nothing else at all ! i had to loop the tubing back through both sides of the reservoir because the pump was to powerful to go through only 1 loop with nothing else but tubing.
> Here is setup (Funny looking thing but whats needed to accomplish this test
> Only things used for this testing! Same batch of clear also. (I had tons of it)*
> 
> *First as i did every test i am flushing the Tubing itself to make sure it is clean.Straight into a bucket and dumped (Yes i spent a fortune in 2 months on distilled water just to try and help solve the issue)*
> 
> *Tubing day one.
> *
> 
> *Just showing had to loop through both Sides of the res to keep the pump from going to fast and sucking air: (Single loop)
> *
> 
> *Here is my funky test setup for now. All new testing equipment is one the way.*
> *Tubing test Day 1 !*
> 
> 
> 
> *As you can see the Tubing is brand new and crystal clear at this point (still day 1)
> *
> 
> *Finally Day 4 !! " I Think i Found the Problem Dear Watson! "
> *
> *Day 4 and not even the slightest amount of clouding.Tubing finally looks as it should .Just like it cam from the Package.By now every other test the Tubing showed slight clouding later on day one and by day 3 to 4 was total trash!
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *As you can see there is nothing wrong with this Tubing! It is as brand new and clear as the day i put it in the loop!
> So finally Success ! After months are heartache and more testing then you could ever imaging !
> So i found the Problem finally!
> So now is where we ALL have to come together and find a solution.
> Please if you come here to TROLL with no proof of testing i will ignore the post .But if you are here to actually try and help solve the issue my ears are wide open.
> Tubing and water samples are being sent to the Labs for testing. The first lab testing is where we found biocide ,Flux and silver in the water!
> Now these samples of tubing from the last few tests and the final one are going out to be tested also.
> dont know about you guys but i want to know what that green stuff is.And i don't believe its the Flux any more i think its something else.
> Sorry but i am not going to mention where the problem lies in this Post but if you look and read and think of the last thing eliminated from the loop it is pretty obvious where the problem Lies.
> So please as a community with a passion for water cooling. Can someone with a chemistry background give some help from this pint on and tell us what is causing the tubing to could. And its not 1 brand of tubing doing it.Its just most people buy 1 certain brand because its nice tubing!
> I am not being paid or endorsed in anyway to do this testing besides i received some free tubing scraps to test with.The rest was all done and paid for by me to help the community Solve this issue.Because i don't know about you guys but i want to run clear tubing again and not worry!
> Hope this this answers allot of un answered questions and again this is only the problem now we need a solution.
> So lets do it guys! I have all new test equipment on the way and will try any suggestions?
> 1 thing we need is a better way to get Rads completely clean inside.
> 2 another nice thing might be a preventive chemical that just prevents the reaction. ( I am no chemist i cant help with this part)
> last thing we need is more people's input on a solution.
> I have Photos of tons of the testing and can make a huge post somewhere but its rather pointless until we have a solution to fix it. Also 2 manufacturers are also working on a solution that i know of for sure right now.And thats the labs that test the tubing and water i send out.
> I really hope this helps you guys get started on some solution.But for me this is super exciting news this is 100% Proof that we are looking for the problem in the wrong place. It is not the tubing that is the issue!
> Take care and please read this whole thing through before commenting on it. ( Yes there is probably bad spelling and yes there is most definitely bad Grammar) But who cares . We now know the tubing stays clear until a certain piece of hardware is added to the loop!
> Progress fells so good Finally!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take care my Friends and talk soon
> MybadOmen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *






The green coloring is from copper acetate, which forms when oxidized copper reacts with acetic acid. That just means your radiator was highly oxidized and you just removed a good layer of material from it by the looks of things. Oxidized copper shouldn't be the problem. If its not too much to ask, you should repeat your tube test with a radiator attached, that way you'll be able to better pinpoint the source of the problem.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaFi0s0*
> 
> Is vinegar a good idea for radiators, I wonder if rinsing would really prevent corrosion.
> btw this is from guys flushing their car radiators:
> http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showpost.php?s=dc371e3e150289d901b14f22c5925d36&p=3828492&postcount=14


Most car radiators are made of aluminum, which is much less reactive. If you use vinegar to clean a rad, make sure work as quickly as possible, and only do it to new rads.


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuadm424*
> 
> The green coloring is from copper acetate, which forms when oxidized copper reacts with acetic acid. That just means your radiator was highly oxidized and you just removed a good layer of material from it by the looks of things. Oxidized copper shouldn't be the problem. If its not too much to ask, you should repeat your tube test with a radiator attached, that way you'll be able to better pinpoint the source of the problem.
> Most car radiators are made of aluminum, which is much less reactive. If you use vinegar to clean a rad, make sure work as quickly as possible, and only do it to new rads.


Yup i did work fast Put it in Warm not hot enough to hurt solder shook the rad .Let sit 15 minutes and dumped. I know the results of the rads hooked up.It clouds with any of the 3 brands.

Before and after Vinegar flush and results were better after the Vinegar flush but still clouded.

Not sure but it seem to me if it clouded only when Rads are hooked up the problem seems to lie somewhere there? And we are not talking 10 tests or so we are talking way over 50+ tests.
With both Brand new Rads and Old rads. 3 different brands. Also if it takes destroying a rad to figure this out then that's what i will do. I want Flexible Clear tubing back!

I have a great idea just waiting for new test equipment to arrive so i can start testing again.Remember i am doing my best i am testing plus trying to learn Corel draw from scratch and Building my Mass Effect 3 build which has a deadline. I am way beyond tired and doing everything i can to get this tubing to work. Its so obvious they didn't change the way tubing is made. And i think we waisted how many pages blaming tubing. I might have been convinced it was tubing if the last tests didn't show what it did.

I know its not the Nickel plating causing the issue because i tested with Nickel blocks in loop so only thing that the problem stopped was when the rads were removed from the loop.

I have a 4 new reservoirs coming 2 tube reservoirs , 2 Dual bay reservoirs , 2 D5 Pumps 100 feet of clear tubing bunch of new fittings (different kinds) also barbs and clamps Special PC only Distilled and tons of other stuff for building a test bench. Also am picking up a kit for PH level testing.

Once this stuff is here i will have more time to mess with it. But i am extremely busy with my build right now and was hoping someone else could go from the info i left for now.

Ok lets say it is the rads for some reason mysteriously all of a sudden reacting with the tubing and there is no way to stop that.Then how can we prevent the reaction? Since it doesn't cause harm to the system then all we need to do is figure a way to stop the white powder stuff. I wouldn't call it leeching because it is something on the tubing itself from what i have seen. White powder substance.

Blah to tired to continue writing & screen is getting blurry as hell. Will be back later if have any other info to input.

Most like wont see new equipment till next weak. Was shipped today.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuadm424*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> *Ok guys after all the testing i did and eliminating 1 thing at a time from the Loops and flushing the 4 Rads to death (3 different brand Rads)
> *
> *Here are the results. I am making this short and sweet and will do a full write up on it later!
> *
> *I discovered from my testing regardless if people want to debate it distilled water flushes did absolutely nothing at all!
> Biocides containing Copper sulphate accelerated this problem but wasn't the problem. Nor kill coils.
> Did a Vinegar flush immediately followed by many gallons and days of flushing with Steamed distilled water before starting new tests.
> Tubing clouding or whitening whatever you would like to call it slowed down after the %5 acidity Distilled vinegar or below Flush followed by days of distilled water flushing.
> But was still there Longest tubing lasted 4 days so every single test the tubing failed in 4 days or less running only distilled water and i went through Loads of distilled water and loads of tubing!
> *
> *Here is what you all seen a million times before. And the whole thing i am trying to help solve which many just spit out BAD TUBING and call it a day without testing anything!*
> 
> 
> *Looks very Familiar don't it? Well you can flush your rads to death with distilled and this is what you will still see. Believe me when i say if you knew haw many different times i changes water flushed changed rads you name it the results were always the same.(Photo's above)
> 
> Just so you all know when i did the Distilled water flushes not much came out of the rads. but when i did a quick Distilled Vinegar flush this is how pretty the stuff that looked came out. Remember these are brand new rads .Just out of the box and flushed for days with distilled water before trying the Vinegar flush!"" 4 Rads 2 used for roughly close to a year and other 2 brand new out of the box.Same results!""
> *
> *and isn't that pretty :*
> 
> 
> *So here is where the Last and final test comes in place which finally rules the tubing being the Problem out!
> *
> *Very strange loop i had to set up to do this Test because the pump was to powerful .
> Any way loop consisted of "Only" 1 Dual Loop Reservoir , 1 Pump , Primochill Clear Tubing and all matching Nickel Compression fittings and Steamed distilled water!
> Nothing else at all ! i had to loop the tubing back through both sides of the reservoir because the pump was to powerful to go through only 1 loop with nothing else but tubing.
> Here is setup (Funny looking thing but whats needed to accomplish this test
> Only things used for this testing! Same batch of clear also. (I had tons of it)*
> 
> *First as i did every test i am flushing the Tubing itself to make sure it is clean.Straight into a bucket and dumped (Yes i spent a fortune in 2 months on distilled water just to try and help solve the issue)*
> 
> *Tubing day one.
> *
> 
> *Just showing had to loop through both Sides of the res to keep the pump from going to fast and sucking air: (Single loop)
> *
> 
> *Here is my funky test setup for now. All new testing equipment is one the way.*
> *Tubing test Day 1 !*
> 
> 
> 
> *As you can see the Tubing is brand new and crystal clear at this point (still day 1)
> *
> 
> *Finally Day 4 !! " I Think i Found the Problem Dear Watson! "
> *
> *Day 4 and not even the slightest amount of clouding.Tubing finally looks as it should .Just like it cam from the Package.By now every other test the Tubing showed slight clouding later on day one and by day 3 to 4 was total trash!
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *As you can see there is nothing wrong with this Tubing! It is as brand new and clear as the day i put it in the loop!
> So finally Success ! After months are heartache and more testing then you could ever imaging !
> So i found the Problem finally!
> So now is where we ALL have to come together and find a solution.
> Please if you come here to TROLL with no proof of testing i will ignore the post .But if you are here to actually try and help solve the issue my ears are wide open.
> Tubing and water samples are being sent to the Labs for testing. The first lab testing is where we found biocide ,Flux and silver in the water!
> Now these samples of tubing from the last few tests and the final one are going out to be tested also.
> dont know about you guys but i want to know what that green stuff is.And i don't believe its the Flux any more i think its something else.
> Sorry but i am not going to mention where the problem lies in this Post but if you look and read and think of the last thing eliminated from the loop it is pretty obvious where the problem Lies.
> So please as a community with a passion for water cooling. Can someone with a chemistry background give some help from this pint on and tell us what is causing the tubing to could. And its not 1 brand of tubing doing it.Its just most people buy 1 certain brand because its nice tubing!
> I am not being paid or endorsed in anyway to do this testing besides i received some free tubing scraps to test with.The rest was all done and paid for by me to help the community Solve this issue.Because i don't know about you guys but i want to run clear tubing again and not worry!
> Hope this this answers allot of un answered questions and again this is only the problem now we need a solution.
> So lets do it guys! I have all new test equipment on the way and will try any suggestions?
> 1 thing we need is a better way to get Rads completely clean inside.
> 2 another nice thing might be a preventive chemical that just prevents the reaction. ( I am no chemist i cant help with this part)
> last thing we need is more people's input on a solution.
> I have Photos of tons of the testing and can make a huge post somewhere but its rather pointless until we have a solution to fix it. Also 2 manufacturers are also working on a solution that i know of for sure right now.And thats the labs that test the tubing and water i send out.
> I really hope this helps you guys get started on some solution.But for me this is super exciting news this is 100% Proof that we are looking for the problem in the wrong place. It is not the tubing that is the issue!
> Take care and please read this whole thing through before commenting on it. ( Yes there is probably bad spelling and yes there is most definitely bad Grammar) But who cares . We now know the tubing stays clear until a certain piece of hardware is added to the loop!
> Progress fells so good Finally!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take care my Friends and talk soon
> MybadOmen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The green coloring is from copper acetate, which forms when oxidized copper reacts with acetic acid. That just means your radiator was highly oxidized and you just removed a good layer of material from it by the looks of things. Oxidized copper shouldn't be the problem. If its not too much to ask, you should repeat your tube test with a radiator attached, that way you'll be able to better pinpoint the source of the problem.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *MaFi0s0*
> 
> Is vinegar a good idea for radiators, I wonder if rinsing would really prevent corrosion.
> btw this is from guys flushing their car radiators:
> http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showpost.php?s=dc371e3e150289d901b14f22c5925d36&p=3828492&postcount=14
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most car radiators are made of aluminum, which is much less reactive. If you use vinegar to clean a rad, make sure work as quickly as possible, and only do it to new rads.
Click to expand...

Not sure it much matters (new/used) but I would agree as quickly as possible and give it a good rinsing afterward. You wouldn't want to put baking soda through it anyhow. The gent in the link even stated that there is salt/sodium in baking soda. Salt is just as corrosive if not more so than vinegar. Ever seen what salt does to car panels from winter roads or ocean communities? Can't believe this guy suggesting such an action while being critical of a vinegar flush. Also suggested to check the PH level of Tap? As cheap as distilled is? It's not like anyone is advocating running 100% vinegar. 5% or less is nothing and more than likely wouldn't harm anything unless it came into sustained contact with your pump.









~Ceadder


----------



## Systemlord

If this post has taught me anything is that distilled water and vinegar is a must for radiator flushing! We really appreciate all of your work mybadomen!


----------



## gdesmo

Most weaker acids will do the same thing provided they are diluted to the same acidity. Flushing generously with warm water is the most important part, Green oxidation happens with acid solution if not cleaned carefully.Look at roofs of old buildings, oxidation from acid rain and naturally occurring corrosives turn them green. Diluted CLR would probably work as well, Have you tried to check for Lead content in solder that holds rad together. Lead may leach out a small amount causing a small amount of clouding as well, some countries have not embraced the use of lead-free solders yet. ps master plumber for 35 years and have designed and built hydronic systems with as many as 24 loops, just under 2 miles of 1/2 inch tubing. Best of luck with your testing and hope you get some good results !


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gdesmo*
> 
> Most weaker acids will do the same thing provided they are diluted to the same acidity. Flushing generously with warm water is the most important part, Green oxidation happens with acid solution if not cleaned carefully.Look at roofs of old buildings, oxidation from acid rain and naturally occurring corrosives turn them green. Diluted CLR would probably work as well, Have you tried to check for Lead content in solder that holds rad together. Lead may leach out a small amount causing a small amount of clouding as well, some countries have not embraced the use of lead-free solders yet. ps master plumber for 35 years and have designed and built hydronic systems with as many as 24 loops, just under 2 miles of 1/2 inch tubing. Best of luck with your testing and hope you get some good results !


Hmmm . isn't CLR supposed to be very safe? If so i think i might try using that as a flush on a test Rad. I don't see why i couldn't leave CLR in overnight and flipping the rad ever few hours?

Do you have any more info about CLR?

and thanks


----------



## Carniflex

Perhaps I have missed it in this thread as I might have skipped few pages over the life of this thread, but has this occurred also if using the car antifreeze ? It's sort of intended for preventing corrosion so while its not as effective for heat transport as distilled perhaps it could prevent this green ooze forming.

Assuming this thing is not going to react with the tubing. As far as I understand antifreeze is usually mix of 50% distilled and 50% ethylene glycol where ethylene glycol competes with water molecules for the hydrogen bonds and thus suppressing corrosion (both regular and galvanic) and also dragging the freezing point down to about -35C.

Just an idea I'm not particularly strong in chemistry.


----------



## gdesmo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> Hmmm . isn't CLR supposed to be very safe? If so i think i might try using that as a flush on a test Rad. I don't see why i couldn't leave CLR in overnight and flipping the rad ever few hours?
> Do you have any more info about CLR?
> and thanks


Have not checked the ph level of clr, you should maybe check it with your new ph kit undiluted and diluted. Would imagine it is 2-4 times stronger than vinegar at 5% acetic acid solution, but only the numbers will tell for sure.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gdesmo*
> 
> Most weaker acids will do the same thing provided they are diluted to the same acidity. Flushing generously with warm water is the most important part, Green oxidation happens with acid solution if not cleaned carefully.Look at roofs of old buildings, oxidation from acid rain and naturally occurring corrosives turn them green. Diluted CLR would probably work as well, Have you tried to check for Lead content in solder that holds rad together. Lead may leach out a small amount causing a small amount of clouding as well, some countries have not embraced the use of lead-free solders yet. ps master plumber for 35 years and have designed and built hydronic systems with as many as 24 loops, just under 2 miles of 1/2 inch tubing. Best of luck with your testing and hope you get some good results !


So that's why the Statue Of Liberty is green, always wondered why. Anyhow is it safe to mix distilled water and vinegar using a Laing D5 Vario that has stainless steel inner body for cooling of the pump? I'm not 100 percent sure it's stainless.


----------



## Systemlord

Double post.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> So that's why the Statue Of Liberty is green, always wondered why. Anyhow is it safe to mix distilled water and vinegar using a Laing D5 Vario that has stainless steel inner body for cooling of the pump? I'm not 100 percent sure it's stainless.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


When copper turns to green, its called patina







. Its basically an oxidization surf (like rust on iron).

You ever noticed this greenish color on building roof shingles? Yup same thing as the Statue of Liberty


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> When copper turns to green, its called patina
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Its basically an oxidization surf (like rust on iron).
> You ever noticed this greenish color on building roof shingles? Yup same thing as the Statue of Liberty


*
Cant wait to get my 2 new test setups!* This CLR thing i think might do the trick. I have used it before and remember it was amazing. And i highly doubt it would hurt anything in the Rad. Obviously i would flush the hell out of it after will fresh distilled.

So busy with the Mass Effect 3 Build that i really should try and stay focused on that for a bit. Deadline is coming fast and i am afraid there is no way i am going to get all my idea into it

Lot of my idea's are always crazy and controversial. That's what makes them fun! I love when people say you cant run that like that .Lol

Anyway Deadline is end of May and i start working May 1st in another State so omg its going to get hard.

*If interested and haven't seen it here is my Mass Effect 3 build and you can see why i want this tubing clear myself also.But more then that i want the whole community to not have to worry about it.

Check out my Build Log if you haven't seen it yet.(Use the INDEX its way faster to see all the work done and being done)

http://www.overclock.net/t/1222200/sponsored-mass-effect-3-nzxt-switch-810-build-log*


----------



## gdesmo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> When copper turns to green, its called patina
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Its basically an oxidization surf (like rust on iron).
> You ever noticed this greenish color on building roof shingles? Yup same thing as the Statue of Liberty


Sorry but your definition of Patina is not quite correct, Patina can be nearly any surface that has a texture or has been altered or has been resurfaced. Copper changing colour to green is the result of oxidization, it leaves a patina but the process is oxidization not Patina.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gdesmo*
> 
> Sorry but your definition of Patina is not quite correct, Patina can be nearly any surface that has a texture or has been altered or has been resurfaced. Copper changing colour to green is the result of oxidization, it leaves a patina but the process is oxidization not Patina.


Thanks for clarifying that. Patina is the end result of oxidation. Patina does happen on other metals too, like brass. As I mentioned its like rust.


----------



## GroupB

This week end I warm vinegar flush my new rad and did a couple of rinse with distilled and shake it by hand, then I hook my 2 EX rad with a home depot pump and they tubing( watt I think) ,, lets it run like 12 hour each rad. Then I wash the pump with ditilled and use another bucket and new tubing and lets each rad do a 20 hour each rad.

Guess what? both Tubing I use before and after final rinse have some plasticizer not a lof but its visible.

I want red primochill but the red is out of stock so I end up with black one... so im pretty sure the platicizer will be there.. hope we will have a fix before I switch to the red one.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GroupB*
> 
> This week end I warm vinegar flush my new rad and did a couple of rinse with distilled and shake it by hand, then I hook my 2 EX rad with a home depot pump and they tubing( watt I think) ,, lets it run like 12 hour each rad. Then I wash the pump with ditilled and use another bucket and new tubing and lets each rad do a 20 hour each rad.
> Guess what? both Tubing I use before and after final rinse have some plasticizer not a lof but its visible.
> I want red primochill but the red is out of stock so I end up with black one... so im pretty sure the platicizer will be there.. hope we will have a fix before I switch to the red one.


So both before and after had equal amounts of plasticizer?


----------



## wermad

My Watts is holding but it looks cloudy in the pics I took. Just to make sure my mind wasn't playing tricks on me, I asked my better half and she confirmed it still looks clear but the color doesn't look as deep as before. So, looks like its ok but not holding as the res is super deep (after adding a ton more dye)







. I hopefully got some new tube coming in and I'm just going to change to colored tube.


----------



## axipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> My Watts is holding but it looks cloudy in the pics I took. Just to make sure my mind wasn't playing tricks on me, I asked my better half and she confirmed it still looks clear but the color doesn't look as deep as before. So, looks like its ok but not holding as the res is super deep (after adding a ton more dye)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I hopefully got some new tube coming in and I'm just going to change to colored tube.


My Watts did the same, it's not as cloudy as a lot of people's, but it is just a little cloudy. Here's a picture of it now that that it's been running for almost 2 months with just distilled water and a kill coil:


----------



## Ceadderman

Yeah uh no Axi chap, it is cloudy. You can't even see the cabling behind the single tube portions of the pic.









~Ceadder


----------



## axipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Yeah uh no Axi chap, it is cloudy. You can't even see the cabling behind the single tube portions of the pic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Yeah, the pictures make it look worst than it is, but I'll probably be putting black tubing in anyway when I change around the loop with the addition of a GPU waterblock. That won't be till I finish work on Project Maple Leaf though.

Then I still have to think about moving it under a full custom loop then having a spare H80 laying around.


----------



## mybadomen

Lol Wish me Luck because its not going to be a fun time Switching this out! (2 full loops in the build hidden away)

Going to try CLR in a spare Rad first and run a test setup.

Also another really funny thing. You know the white stuff in the tubing ? Well i took some of the destroyed tubing from testing and just for the fun of it ran a couple drops of Dollar Store Oxy clean in it. Lol funniest thing ever.The tubing looks like new again. Waiting for new test equipment that should be here any day and i am going to try to see if the old tubing holds up now. Who knows worth a round just to play.But whatever is in the hose i also found a little of the same white stuff in my Dominator block when i changed tops.

Also buying a nice PH test Kit and Filter setup for the new test station i am building. (Test station will be for more then just testing Tubing







)



*
Complete log is here if interested :* http://www.overclock.net/t/1222200/sponsored-mass-effect-3-nzxt-switch-810-build-log


----------



## PCSarge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lowfat*
> 
> Raging Bull, do you still have the old tubing you used? I used Ice Dragon Cooling nanofluid + Mayhems the tubing did start to cloud within a few weeks. However after draining the loop and letting the tubing dry the clouding disappeared. So in my case it definitely wasn't plasticizer.
> I've been using the same tubing now for over a year. Every build I just let the tubing dry. Then give it a light brush cleaning.
> I also do not think the film on the tubing is plasticizer. Buy some Tygon R3603 or other Tygon and you'll see what plasticizer looks like within a couple of weeks. It also gums up blocks, there would be a nasty residue in most of your blocks.


i cant knock tygon, been running tygon silver tubing for well over a year, regular periodic drains and fresh distilled/biocide mix, pulled a piece off last night to look, no leeching, i think its just the 3603/clear tubing from tygon that does it.


----------



## Big Elf

Update to my post at here I've just replaced a graphics card in the first system listed in that post and had to remove some tubing. There's still no sign of deposits on the tubing after 7 months. The water was still clear although I've replaced it this time and the ph level was still 8-9. The water it's been replaced with has a ph level of 7.

Extract from that post:

Brand: Primochill LRT
Source: Specialtech.co.uk
Purchase Date: 05/18/2011
Color: Black
Transparent? (y/n): N
Liquid / Additives: Deionised Water, 1 drop Copper Sulphate
Kill Coil (y/n): Y
PH Balance: 8-9
Block Material(s): Mixture of copper and nickel plated
Tubing Dimensions: 3/8"ID, 5/8"OD
Period of Time: 5 months
Description of Tubing: No sign of deposits after 5 months, Flexible compared to others I've used, not prone to kinking
Notes/Comments:


----------



## wermad

Well, thought the Watts had rolled over and had gone to clouding heaven but I noticed the res was a bit pale. A few more drops of Mayhems and I'm back to a better state. Still, upon close examination the tube does look a bit cloudy but I am happy its holding. This tell me something had changed recently to improve the tube.


----------



## lowfat

Well it seems this batch of Primoflex does not like Ice Dragon nanofluid at all.
The stuff I used on the front is different thankfully. It looks bad, but not this bad.


----------



## Ceadderman

I'm assuming that dogleg in the middle is your drain tube?







why so high up?







:

Sucks that your PrimoChill did that. How'd you flush your Rad lowfat.









~Ceadder


----------



## lowfat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I'm assuming that dogleg in the middle is your drain tube?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> why so high up?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :
> Sucks that your PrimoChill did that. How'd you flush your Rad lowfat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


The drain comes right after the reservoir so it works decently enough. I flushed my radiator w/ 7-8 flushes of boiling water + a good 20 minutes of hot tap water.


----------



## Warrior1986

Cross-posting my question here from my other thread.

Do I want to go with Tygon B-44-3 or B-44-4X? Wanted to go with 2001 because of it not having plasitcizer but it's very cloudy, and it's not clear to me what's the difference between 44-3 and 44-4X other than 4X being for food, milk, and dairy.


----------



## DaXxJaPxX

red primochill LRT, silver kill coil + pt nuke distilled, 2 monhs of running and not a hint of plasitcizer


----------



## Lee17

Tygon R-3603 : Better than the tube that come with the Rasa Kit but... you see









Around 10 month running like that. I stop worrying about the blur (now more white than anything) because I was think that was normal.

I have about 1L of pure water (from my labo : Pass through an osmotic system and a carbon actif filter. I think it is pure enough) with 2 drop of PT-Nuke form petra shop and a silver coil



Here is a close up



I hope it can help









I have the rasa kit so I think I dont have to describe my loop. Only difference is the T line.

I have read all the 58 page (I'm crazy) but I really hope to find the why it is doing that. I have think about the CuSO4 (Copper sulfate) who is white when anhydrous... but lol! It is in water. Second hypothesis, CuSO4 react with water and make CuO (Copper oxide, blue) and H2SO4. That imply adding PT-Nuke make the water to have a lower pH. That low pH may react with the tubing and cause the white thing.

For people who don't have add PT-Nuke (or and source of CuSO4), maybe the pure water had a low pH (under 7) or the tubing contain SO4 that react with copper hand made the with thing.

And other hypothesis is reaction with Silver/Cupper/Nickel tougheter with the tubing by a strange process.

Anyway, this summer, I maybe can test if they have SO4 in the with thing inside my tube in my laboratory (if my boss want).

I hope I can help !

Lee


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> ...
> 
> Also buying a nice PH test Kit and Filter setup for the new test station i am building...


If you have something specific in mind about ph kit and esecially filter please post the realated link here.

I have PrimoflexLRT with 4 Silver KillCoils in 2.5 ltrs Mayhems ultra pure water and my Innovatek filter
http://www.aquatuning.de/product_info.php/info/p8243_Innovatek-particle-filter--without-cartridge-.html/XTCsid/ro1964uuiiajlr7lpi6vjqkdjcba3881

has some yellwish deposits after 6 months of usage as shown here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1246873/mora-3-and-cpu370-temps/10#post_17067815


----------



## lowfat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Cross-posting my question here from my other thread.
> Do I want to go with Tygon B-44-3 or B-44-4X? Wanted to go with 2001 because of it not having plasitcizer but it's very cloudy, and it's not clear to me what's the difference between 44-3 and 44-4X other than 4X being for food, milk, and dairy.


B-44-4X will cloud. I have a bunch of B-44-3 but I have no tested it yet.


----------



## Warrior1986

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lowfat*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Cross-posting my question here from my other thread.
> Do I want to go with Tygon B-44-3 or B-44-4X? Wanted to go with 2001 because of it not having plasitcizer but it's very cloudy, and it's not clear to me what's the difference between 44-3 and 44-4X other than 4X being for food, milk, and dairy.
> 
> 
> 
> B-44-4X will cloud. I have a bunch of B-44-3 but I have no tested it yet.
Click to expand...

Seriously? FFS.









Is there ANY tubing that will not cloud?


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Is there ANY tubing that will not cloud?


Tis a great mystery this question my son







.

Mine seems to be getting worse. Switching back to black, though that does have a layer of plasticize, you can't see it. What is interesting it was holding somewhat ok until I drained my loop to reroute a tube and now its getting worse. Maybe it accelerates with more direct oxygen contact?


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Tis a great mystery this question my son
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Mine seems to be getting worse. Switching back to black, though that does have a layer of plasticize, you can't see it. What is interesting it was holding somewhat ok until I drained my loop to reroute a tube and now its getting worse. Maybe it accelerates with more direct oxygen contact?


*It does. I noticed that myself. Wermad for the hell of it try the Oxy Clean trick and see if it happens again.
*
Monday when my test Setups get here i am going to CLR a rad. Oxy Clean the Tubing and give it a try.

*My new Test Station will be :
*
2 Myriad D5 Dual Bay Reservoirs
2 D5 Pumps
2 Tube Reservoirs
100's of feet of different Tubing (Primochill being the main 1 i am going to be testing) because my build is dual loop system with all Clear Pimochill tubing.
2 Inline Filters (Haven't picked them up yet so not sure which ones)
Tons of Compressions and regular barbs
PH level kit.

This is what i am starting with to build me test station and i will keep improving it from there with some temp sensors etc.

So cant wait! I will mainly be using this to figure out this tubing issue and to test future products or help solve future issues.

Oh yeah by the way guys just thought i would mention.

*I made Maximum PC Magazines Top 25 Kick Ass PC Mods! Even better i even made the Top 10 that were hand picked by Bill Owen himself !!*

Super excited !! And that was just with my Venom Build. I cant wait to see what they think of my new Mass Effect 3 NZXT Switch 810 build. I also was entered into same Hall of Fame. I think it was West Coast Modders but i cant remember i been so busy.

Again take care and please check out my new Build Log if you haven't seen it yet : (And wish me luck with the tons of Clear that's in it)
*
Build Log is here :* http://www.overclock.net/t/1222200/sponsored-mass-effect-3-nzxt-switch-810-build-log

*Take Care*

*MybadOmen*


----------



## homestyle

so after 579 posts, what's the best clear tubes to use to avoid the clouding?


----------



## Lee17

We still don't know. I think we didn't see any Tygon food grade who dont have platisizer to dont cloud easily.

IMO, it will be the safe choice but the primochill clear tubing seem to just to had a bad batch so... our tester need more time to test and try to find what cause the clouding and how to avoid it (aka which brand and model of tubing to use)

Lee


----------



## Systemlord

Shouldn't Primochill be doing the testing since it's their product?


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Shouldn't Primochill be doing the testing since it's their product?


They are. But every experiment needs collaboration so why ask a question that doesn't shouldn't need to be answered?









~Ceadder


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Shouldn't Primochill be doing the testing since it's their product?


They have already decided there tubing is not to blame. In my own situation and communication with them, they have stated that it is flux from my 5 year old rad (really?). They promised to send new tubing, however, it has now been almost 9 weeks since it was "shipped". USPS may have lost it, but, no attempt by Primochill to send more or get USPS to find it. I think it was never sent and the person I was corresponding with was just told it was.
Anyway, I have seen nothing that tells me that Primochill is accepting any responsibility at all, not even admitting there could be a chance that they had a part to play.
No more Primochill products for me.


----------



## frank anderson

I'm curious and I am also very tempted, just buy 10 feet of clear Primochill Pro LRT, use a pump and a acrylic reservoir, and run it with pure distilled, nothing else.. just to see where that takes me..


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Shouldn't Primochill be doing the testing since it's their product?


I speak with the owner of Primochill often and believe me they are testing and they are using their labs also.And if you read closely through the thread its basically all Clear tubing clouding or turning yellow all of a sudden.The yellowish i think has always been around .I remember way back maby 8 years ago having trouble with yellow tubing. But this new white film that can be cleaned off the tubing is the issue we are mostly interested in.

Also the reason allot of us are testing tubing on our own is because we want to solve the issue as soon as possible.I myself love testing anything so i love the challenge of it and i want to run all clear in my Mass Effect build and i want Primochill in it. The tubing was always amazing. Now all of a sudden all tubing starts clouding in tops a weak or so.I think that pretty much rules out only 1 company being to blame

Just read through some of the threads you will see that people testing different tunings are getting the same clouding as the Primochill.

At this point i am looking for just a way to prevent it from happening and others that dig this kind of stuff should be trying also. Worse part of this all is i am not a chemist so am limited to what i can do.Although i do know all my samples get sent to a certain Lab (not to be mentioned) for further testing.

So good luck guys and 2 more days and i can try something that i have been dying to try.

Take soon and i am sure we will eventually figure it all out and fix it .
*
MybadOmen*


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> I speak with the owner of Primochill often and believe me they are testing and they are using their labs also.And if you read closely through the thread its basically all Clear tubing clouding or turning yellow all of a sudden.The yellowish i think has always been around .I remember way back maby 8 years ago having trouble with yellow tubing. But this new white film that can be cleaned off the tubing is the issue we are mostly interested in.*
> MybadOmen*


I would really like it if it turned out my experience with Primochill turned out to be a series of bad luck, however, right now, it leaves me feeling that they have poor customer relations. I like the look of their tubing and how flexible it was (when it was new). Overall, they were just too quick to dismiss my observations out of hand and far too defensive. The old adage "Methinks he doth protest too much" comes to mind.
And, just to be clear, my tubing is blue, not clear. I may have put more PT Nuke in than I did with my Clearflex, and that may be part or all of the problem. I have tried to keep an open mind, but, as I stated, they were just too quick to rule out their tubing as being even partly responsible.
There is only one way we can protest lack of customer satisfaction, with our wallets, and that is what I choose to do.

As the ads say, your results may differ.


----------



## CaptainChaos

I experienced this as well in my black and blue LRT tubing. Sadly for me I also had the nickel from my ek block flake off so I got a raystorm on the way. I'll probably go with Primochill tubing again and I'll be sure to check in if I notice the white film return.


----------



## Ceadderman

Well I've got all new PrimoChill LRT in my new build from day one. It is white though. However I've been running it 24/7 with straight distilled no Killcoil, although I do have the coil in the container it shipped in sitting in the drawer in my desk. Gonna be upgrading my CPU(going on a little over 2 weeks) and adding the new Pump. so I'll report back my findings as soon as I get it done. Should be sometime this week as soon as my new tube of G751 gets here. The tubing itself is less than a year off the shelf though.









~Ceadder


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> I would really like it if it turned out my experience with Primochill turned out to be a series of bad luck, however, right now, it leaves me feeling that they have poor customer relations. I like the look of their tubing and how flexible it was (when it was new). Overall, they were just too quick to dismiss my observations out of hand and far too defensive. The old adage "Methinks he doth protest too much" comes to mind.
> And, just to be clear, my tubing is blue, not clear. I may have put more PT Nuke in than I did with my Clearflex, and that may be part or all of the problem. I have tried to keep an open mind, but, as I stated, they were just too quick to rule out their tubing as being even partly responsible.
> There is only one way we can protest lack of customer satisfaction, with our wallets, and that is what I choose to do.
> As the ads say, your results may differ.


Don't you find it a little strange that Primochill stopped advertising Plasticizer Free? Now it's, "your results may very." All of these plasticizer problems start happening at a time when our economy is weak, Primochill hopes this is swept under the rug. I got news for them, I will *not* be purchasing anything from them ever again!


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> I would really like it if it turned out my experience with Primochill turned out to be a series of bad luck, however, right now, it leaves me feeling that they have poor customer relations. I like the look of their tubing and how flexible it was (when it was new). Overall, they were just too quick to dismiss my observations out of hand and far too defensive. The old adage "Methinks he doth protest too much" comes to mind.
> And, just to be clear, my tubing is blue, not clear. I may have put more PT Nuke in than I did with my Clearflex, and that may be part or all of the problem. I have tried to keep an open mind, but, as I stated, they were just too quick to rule out their tubing as being even partly responsible.
> There is only one way we can protest lack of customer satisfaction, with our wallets, and that is what I choose to do.
> As the ads say, your results may differ.
> 
> 
> 
> *Don't you find it a little strange* that Primochill stopped advertising Plasticizer Free? Now it's, "your results may very." All of these plasticizer problems start happening at a time when our economy is weak, Primochill hopes this is swept under the rug. I got news for them, I will *not* be purchasing anything from them ever again!
Click to expand...

Nope. Not in the least bit. It's only smart business to roll with the punches and remove a statement that may or may not be true. If it is, then what are they saying about their customers. If it's not true 100% of the time they leave themselves open to litigation. I don't find the move strange at all.

As far as not purchasing anything PrimoChill ever again, that's your prerogative. But that's a slippery slope in this game. Other companies just aren't saying anything one way or the other at all. And they ALL of them seem to suffer from this problem. Including Tygon. The more you narrow your choices for tubing the less you'll have to turn to along the replacement line.









~Ceadder


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> I would really like it if it turned out my experience with Primochill turned out to be a series of bad luck, however, right now, it leaves me feeling that they have poor customer relations. I like the look of their tubing and how flexible it was (when it was new). Overall, they were just too quick to dismiss my observations out of hand and far too defensive. The old adage "Methinks he doth protest too much" comes to mind.
> And, just to be clear, my tubing is blue, not clear. I may have put more PT Nuke in than I did with my Clearflex, and that may be part or all of the problem. I have tried to keep an open mind, but, as I stated, they were just too quick to rule out their tubing as being even partly responsible.
> There is only one way we can protest lack of customer satisfaction, with our wallets, and that is what I choose to do.
> As the ads say, your results may differ.


I already stated that most biocides even 1 drop will destroy the tubing .I did multiple tests with this.


----------



## Warrior1986

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> I already stated that most biocides even 1 drop will destroy the tubing .I did multiple tests with this.


This is good to know, so I don't have to buy any biocide. All I'm going to get now is a killcoil.


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> I already stated that most biocides even 1 drop will destroy the tubing .I did multiple tests with this.


Maybe, maybe not. Biocide is same bottle I have been using all along. As I have already admitted, I may have precipitated my own problems by adding too much. That being said, your statement does not explain the issue I am experiencing unless something has changed with tubing since my last purchase, which was, admittedly, several years ago.


----------



## wermad

One month of use. The layer is very chalky in texture and easily wipes off.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> One month of use. The layer is very chalky in texture and easily wipes off.


Is that brand PrimoChill tubing? This problem is happening to all brand radiators new and old, something must have changed in the manufacturing of these tubing! Are their any manufacturers that claim plasticizer free?


----------



## HPF

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> .......something must have changed in the manufacturing of these tubing!


Maybe they moved the production to China. In order to increase profits the chinese will change the formula ever so slightly, little by little, hoping the buyer (Primochill) won't notice. Finally they will notice.


----------



## EasterEEL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> I already stated that most biocides even 1 drop will destroy the tubing .I did multiple tests with this.


I'm thinking of switching from Feser One Green and Tygon 3603 to Tygon R6012 Norprene tubing. Is that going to get destroyed by distilled water plus a couple of drops of Pulse Modding BioClear PT ?

How exactly do biocides destroy the tubing, are we talking clouding, leaching, deforming?


----------



## Warrior1986

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Are their any manufacturers that claim plasticizer free?


Yes, Tygon 2001 tubing is plasticizer free.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Yes, Tygon 2001 tubing is plasticizer free.


I wonder if anyone has seen a post of this Norprene tubing lately, it would be interesting to see if there is any issues with this tubing as well. Then if there is leeching even on this tubing the problem might be elsewhere.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Is that brand PrimoChill tubing? This problem is happening to all brand radiators new and old, something must have changed in the manufacturing of these tubing! Are their any manufacturers that claim plasticizer free?


Its Watts, I had a spare roll that I used for my current setup. But I agree with you mate. I have been preaching something was changed. I'll post some pics of my build this last fall using primochill lrt and Mayhems uv green. I never had an issue.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Its Watts, I had a spare roll that I used for my current setup. But I agree with you mate. I have been preaching something was changed. I'll post some pics of my build this last fall using primochill lrt and Mayhems uv green. I never had an issue.


It would be interesting to see no issues with your tubing and test it with many old and new radiators, then we might have the holy grail of proof that it isn't the flux from old radiators as Primochill says! I believe every manufacturer of tubing must have made a change to cut costs for more profit and perhaps no manufacturer though this would be the outcome, kind of like the nickel plating issues.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HPF*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> .......something must have changed in the manufacturing of these tubing!
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they moved the production to China. In order to increase profits the chinese will change the formula ever so slightly, little by little, hoping the buyer (Primochill) won't notice. Finally they will notice.
Click to expand...

So what you're saying here is Chinese manufacture is garbage?









There are a lot of system components made in Asia. I fail to see how moving a tubing manufacturer overseas would negatively impact the product quality. If anything it should be better because they wouldn't have to pay more in labor costs and if they used the same formula and manufacturing processes they've always used it's Win.









~Ceadder


----------



## frank anderson

I think what he meant was that in terms of "Made in China" which is renown for their cutting corner tactics and "under table" money passing which usually results in the final quality of a product being sub par... Which is in no way a direct attack towards Primochill, just unfortunate that these scenarios do happen and even the higher ups management may not notice or they are in on it, but just get a bigger cut of the *cough* cake..

In all fairness, after looking and doing business in China for the past 10+ years myself, it is getting better.. I really mean that..


----------



## paradoxum

I got some Green UV Primochill LRT a couple months ago to replace the awful plasticizier-filled previous one I had (Feser) so far no signs of plasticizer whatsoever.


----------



## Nano5656

im scared to buy primochill clear tubing


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nano5656*
> 
> im scared to buy primochill clear tubing


go with colored tube mate. So far this has not affected ppls loop, it just looks $hi77y tbh. Even though colored tube maybe affected you won't notice it visually


----------



## Nano5656

Will it be noticeable through clear tube with dye in it?


----------



## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nano5656*
> 
> Will it be noticeable through clear tube with dye in it?


I've used my clear primochill with blue mayhem's dye. Whatever clouding or plasticizing the tubing does will be the same color as the dye used, due to the dye dying the inside of the tubing.


----------



## Capt Proton

My experience is that "Made in China" doesn't mean the same thing anymore. Quality has gone up in many aspects, just look at Honda engine knock offs. That being said, Chinese companies, as do most Asian companies, rely on price for continuing sales, not customer service. We all know the problems whenever our only avenue of seeking resolution to an issue is direct with someone in Asia, be it China, Japan, Korea, India etc. You either receive no answer at all (usually) or something that is translated so poorly it is virtually no help anyway.
The truth is that they do not have anywhere near what we in the west expect in the way of customer service, and we let them get away with it as we still usually go with the cheapest, not the best solution.
Asian companies with reps in Europe and North America are a little better, however, at the end of the day, the western reps must do as they are told, and the owners are not really going to worry about whether you and I are happy. They don't need to be and they know it. Our capitalist society has allowed the proliferation of the big box stores that rely on the cheap prices sweat shops and child labor delivers. Where are the dissidents who led the boycotts of the 80s against such companies as Nike? Going to Walmart like the rest of us.


----------



## frank anderson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nano5656*
> 
> Will it be noticeable through clear tube with dye in it?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> go with colored tube mate. So far this has not affected ppls loop, it just looks $hi77y tbh. Even though colored tube maybe affected you won't notice it visually


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superericla*
> 
> I've used my clear primochill with blue mayhem's dye. Whatever clouding or plasticizing the tubing does will be the same color as the dye used, due to the dye dying the inside of the tubing.


I agree, colored tubings just don't look as good as tubings with dyes running in them.

It's noticeable.. enough to a point where it made me change to red and blue Promochill Pro LRT tubings...

I've used Promochill Pro LRT clear with Mayhem's blue and red dyes (2 separate loop), both have left a film in my tubing's and was noticeable after about a month, worse as time went by, but does not dye my tubing's or parts, it might have been the batch you used..

Which also proves what I said earlier, trying to get a clear tubing that won't leech seems to be not about brand, more so about luck I guess...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> My experience is that "Made in China" doesn't mean the same thing anymore. Quality has gone up in many aspects, just look at Honda engine knock offs. That being said, Chinese companies, as do most Asian companies, rely on price for continuing sales, not customer service. We all know the problems whenever our only avenue of seeking resolution to an issue is direct with someone in Asia, be it China, Japan, Korea, India etc. You either receive no answer at all (usually) or something that is translated so poorly it is virtually no help anyway.
> The truth is that they do not have anywhere near what we in the west expect in the way of customer service, and we let them get away with it as we still usually go with the cheapest, not the best solution.
> Asian companies with reps in Europe and North America are a little better, however, at the end of the day, the western reps must do as they are told, and the owners are not really going to worry about whether you and I are happy. They don't need to be and they know it. Our capitalist society has allowed the proliferation of the big box stores that rely on the cheap prices sweat shops and child labor delivers. Where are the dissidents who led the boycotts of the 80s against such companies as Nike? Going to Walmart like the rest of us.


Very well said my friend.. !!


----------



## Ceadderman

I do not...










...concur.









In any case I do like the look of dyes but...









~Ceadder


----------



## HPF

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> My experience is that "Made in China" doesn't mean the same thing anymore. Quality has gone up in many aspects, just look at Honda engine knock offs.


I've googled that and it seems many disagree about the Honda knock offs.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> That being said, Chinese companies, as do most Asian companies, rely on price for continuing sales, not customer service.


Japanese, Taiwanese and South Korean manufacturers have a total different attitude than their chinese counterparts. Chinese owned factories with chinese managment vs foreign owned facories with foreign managment are in general two different things. When did you last buy a 100% chinese product of good quality? They do of course exist, but if you buy good quality "Made in China" products they will usually come from a factory that have foreigners involved at one or more levels (owner, managment, quality control).

The problem with buying tubing from a wholly owned and operated chinese factory (if that is what Primochill does) is you don't really know what you get. First delivery is OK. Maybe the second. But then, at some point and somewhere in the manufacturing chain, someone will try to increase profit margins. Maybe the tubing manufacturer, maybe one of it's suppliers. If you (the purchaser) don't notice the first costcutting change they may make more costcutting changes. Sooner or later you, or your customers, will notice.

If you like to learn more I suggest you read Poorly Made in China: An Insider's Account of the Tactics Behind China's Production Game. The book is informativ and fun to read. You can read the first chapter for free and learn how the chinese set up a virtual factory.


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HPF*
> 
> When did you last buy a 100% chinese product of good quality? They do of course exist, but if you buy good quality "Made in China" products they will usually come from a factory that have foreigners involved at one or more levels (owner, managment, quality control).


When I bought my Champion generator last year.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HPF*
> 
> If you like to learn more I suggest you read Poorly Made in China: An Insider's Account of the Tactics Behind China's Production Game. The book is informativ and fun to read. You can read the first chapter for free and learn how the chinese set up a virtual factory.


No thanks. I know what I know by experience. Cyberlink. DFI, Gigabyte, etc. I already have enough first hand knowledge.


----------



## JMattes

I was using Primochill 1/4" with only distilled water and a silver coil.. The water in the res is clear and not cloudy but the tubing ended up looking like poop after only a few weeks.


----------



## HPF

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> When I bought my Champion generator last year......No thanks. I know what I know by experience. Cyberlink. DFI, Gigabyte, etc. I already have enough first hand knowledge.


That's one US and three Taiwanese companies. Like I wrote "....if you buy good quality "Made in China" products they will usually come from a factory that have foreigners involved at one or more levels (owner, managment, quality control)."


----------



## Capt Proton

Close enough.


----------



## Mayhem

we use a lot of clearflex tubing. Its not a top named brand how ever it doesn't leach as much as the higher priced counter parts and is 1/4 of the cost. Its has what i would consider a "good" bend radius (not the best, but good enough for water cooling.)

It does slowly go cloudy how ever when i say slowly i mean it takes a good few months but the cloudyness is no were near what ive seen in this thread.


----------



## wermad

Got some replacement tube today. I'm going with colored tube as I .don't have faith in clear at this point.


----------



## Ceadderman

Apparently the Radiator I got had dye put through it or something. Had to pull the outlet tube from my CPU block and the tube has a kind of aquamarine color to it. But my Res is crystal clear. So it's either dye or plasticizer.










I woulda got a pic of the tube but I don't have any real length left where I could replace it.









~Ceadder


----------



## frank anderson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMattes*
> 
> Had my loop running for a month.. Started looking cloudy after a week.. This is what it look like comparing new tubing..
> **snip


You should also include what brand tubing you used, and what else you had in your loop.. eg; distilled, silver coil, dyes..
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I do not...
> **snip
> ...concur. **snip
> In any case I do like the look of dyes but...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Didn't you use that white Dragon Ice stuff that made your tubings turn yellowish? My experience was different, I used mayhem's dyes and a lot of it too, probably around 10 drops to a liter.. it did not dye my tubings or reservoir..

Dyes look pimp, but they are a pain to flush out if you wan't to go back to pure distilled and coil..









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HPF*
> 
> That's one US and three Taiwanese companies. Like I wrote "....if you buy good quality "Made in China" products they will usually come from a factory that have foreigners involved at one or more levels (owner, managment, quality control)."


It's kind of hard to reference a company based on their QA control, among other things, some companies consider it their trade secret. I have seen companies that has tried hiring foreign management and QA managers, only a matter of time before greed sets in then they start biting off a piece of that "cake"... There are other factors too mainly having to deal with politics, it's not like you can just walk into China and get a business licence and open shop, there are other things you need to do which is sort of a "grey" area for most other well established countries...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by HPF
> 
> If you like to learn more I suggest you read Poorly Made in China: An Insider's Account of the Tactics Behind China's Production Game. The book is informativ and fun to read. You can read the first chapter for free and learn how the chinese set up a virtual factory.


I have that book on my shelf, interesting read but not 100% accurate as much of it is debatable, too much personal opinion if you ask me..


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Apparently the Radiator I got had dye put through it or something. Had to pull the outlet tube from my CPU block and the tube has a kind of aquamarine color to it. But my Res is crystal clear. So it's either dye or plasticizer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I woulda got a pic of the tube but I don't have any real length left where I could replace it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


As in Statue Of Liberty aquamarine?


----------



## Ceadderman

I have never used dyes. This is my first custom loop and other than maybe the Radiator it has not seen a drop of dye in the loop.









~Ceadder


----------



## JMattes

Fixed my posting thanks!


----------



## wermad

Whats the ratio of vinegar and distilled to flush out my loop?

Should I run my loop with hot distilled first, then flush each rad with the vinegar/distilled mix? Or, should I run the distilled vinegar mix through my loop?

I'm running Mayhems dye.

I'm ready to to install my new Primochill pearl/metallic blue tube. Going wiith straight distilled for now and I'm thinking of picking up a FrozenQ helix res to jazz up the reservoir.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Whats the ratio of vinegar and distilled to flush out my loop?
> Should I run my loop with hot distilled first, then flush each rad with the vinegar/distilled mix? Or, should I run the distilled vinegar mix through my loop?
> I'm running Mayhems dye.
> I'm ready to to install my new Primochill pearl/metallic blue tube. Going wiith straight distilled for now and I'm thinking of picking up a FrozenQ helix res to jazz up the reservoir.


From where did you purchase the Primochill pearl/metallic blue tubing? I Googled it without much success.


----------



## jackofhearts495

Another friendly request (might be considered spam at this point) to add your info to the Tube Database (link in my sig)


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> From where did you purchase the Primochill pearl/metallic blue tubing? I Googled it without much success.


This is how *I* describe the no-name tube I got from Primochill. I guess it maybe an up coming product and they offered to have me try as a courtesy. It came with the replacement clear tube I had requested a long time ago. I got it on Monday with an extra roll of uv blue. It looks good but I'm still torn between that and the uv blue stuff. It could be a new blue tube and they may need some more feedback from customers. I haven't been told this is nda stuff but I'm always cautious. I'll contact the rep and ask if nda is in effect on this.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> From where did you purchase the Primochill pearl/metallic blue tubing? I Googled it without much success.
> 
> 
> 
> This is how *I* describe the no-name tube I got from Primochill. I guess it maybe an up coming product and they offered to have me try as a courtesy. It came with the replacement clear tube I had requested a long time ago. I got it on Monday with an extra roll of uv blue. It looks good but I'm still torn between that and the uv blue stuff. It could be a new blue tube and they may need some more feedback from customers. I haven't been told this is nda stuff but I'm always cautious. I'll contact the rep and ask if nda is in effect on this.
Click to expand...

Okay, but did you or did you not like the tubing?









~Ceadder


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Okay, but did you or did you not like the tubing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


It looks really good and different than the other offerings from primochill. Its a little lighter blue and matches quite well to the "electric blue" paracord. The uv blue goes a bit better with the R4s. As I've said, this maybe be a new product line.


----------



## derelict

Just checked after pulling my AMS rad out and after roughly two days with just distilled alone, light load (if any) and varying pump speeds the pic is the outcome. Essentially a simple leak test session while still cleaning the loop. Prior to installation, the rad underwent a full vinegar flush (though it was rather spotless) and loop was in process with plain ol' distilled, no coil, nuke, lucky charm or an eye of newt.



The above pic is of fairly low quality but the zip tie through the tubing can be seen just fine through the lower/new and ever so slightly in the top. Tubing is Primochill UV RED, PrimoFlex­™ PRO LRT, 7/16" ID 5/8" OD. It was a recent purchase from Frozen as early as last month along with more tubing of the same brand, just different colors.


----------



## Systemlord

Whenever you have a bad economy companies find ways to cut costs, notice how they changed their advertising from "Plasticizer Free" to "results may vary"?


----------



## frank anderson

Probably has something to do with researchers and marketing team figuring they may be liable for a "false advertisement" lawsuit. Regardless of the nature, I still think Promochill Pro LRT is good tubing until another company has proved to me otherwise.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frank anderson*
> 
> Probably has something to do with researchers and marketing team figuring they may be liable for a "false advertisement" lawsuit. Regardless of the nature, I still think Promochill Pro LRT is good tubing until another company has proved to me otherwise.


This. My tubing is a little green inside. But I've seen none of the telltale white/yellowing that comes from plasticizer. I don't know though. I'm still a n00b at this so maybe the green hue in my tubing is plasticizer. But it sure doesn't look anything like the pics being shown around here in regards to the issue.









~Ceadder


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frank anderson*
> 
> Probably has something to do with researchers and marketing team figuring they may be liable for a "false advertisement" lawsuit. Regardless of the nature, I still think Promochill Pro LRT is good tubing until another company has proved to me otherwise.


Why does it take a company to prove anything, the proof is staring you in the face in the form of residue coating the inner part of the tubing. Primochill took an aggressive and short sighted quick decision and stated it's not our products that is to blame and they did this without any kind of tests, like saying to bad so sad it's your problem now. They didn't even attempt to make things right by working with the customer in any way, just a cold shoulder. So when you say, "is good tubing" kind of sounds ridiculous.


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Why does it take a company to prove anything, the proof is staring you in the face in the form of residue coating the inner part of the tubing. Primochill took an aggressive and short sighted quick decision and stated it's not our products that is to blame and they did this without any kind of tests, like saying to bad so sad it's your problem now. They didn't even attempt to make things right by working with the customer in any way, just a cold shoulder. So when you say, "is good tubing" kind of sounds ridiculous.


LOL they did no testing? And how do you know this? I can tell you for 100% sure they have been doing testing on the tubing since this whole thing started.

The statement you just made is all false info and that's what hurts this thread. I myself have sent many samples to there labs of tubing and water. And know the owner personally and speak with him all the time on the issue. Trust me there is nothing he wants more then this issue resolved. They never changed there tubing.I have tested old stuff he had laying around from years ago to brand new stuff not even released yet. They have a lab that has been testing the water and testing the bad tubing along as the good. I have also been testing at least 100 feet of different tubing in different ways.
He did tell me what was found in a few tests but i cant remember all the chemicals that he found so i am not even going to try and post them in case i say the wrong thing. I have found for 100% sure that copper sulphate destroys the tubing really fast.

But please if going to post something like that about a company at least know what you are talking about. Fact is Primochill /Tyler Industries does Test there tubing and has been working on this problem since it came about. And also they never changed there tubing! The only new tubing they have you will know when you see it.It will be released shortly.

Also lets not forget this is happening with just about every brand of tubing .Just some take a little longer to cloud is all then others.

I still have 2 loops running now testing to tubing and got a Huge filter setup now but i still have nothing new to say. It does seem though some rolls are better then others.

Thanks
*
MybadOmen*


----------



## frank anderson

I am entitled to my opinion as a paying customer, I'm happy with it regardless of the problems I have with it, it flakes, whoopie dee doo.. It's not gunking up my blocks and I still have the same flow as I did since day one.. so all in all, ITS GOOD TUBING !!

I guess we are all entitled to our opinions, Thank You for yours...


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frank anderson*
> 
> I am entitled to my opinion as a paying customer, I'm happy with it regardless of the problems I have with it, it flakes, whoopie dee doo.. It's not gunking up my blocks and I still have the same flow as I did since day one.. so all in all, ITS GOOD TUBING !!
> I guess we are all entitled to our opinions, Thank You for yours...


+1

I will point out, once again, the promise made to me to send me new tubing that never arrived. May have been lost in the mail, but, I rather doubt it. Even if it had been, there was no effort to send more when informed it never arrived. Any company that makes promises and then does not live up to them, or, at least make a reasonable attempt to live up to them, loses my confidence and my business. My actions alone will have no impact on Primochill, however, by letting people know, it may influence other folks buying decision. That is why customer service should remain important.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> LOL they did no testing? And how do you know this? I can tell you for 100% sure they have been doing testing on the tubing since this whole thing started.
> The statement you just made is all false info and that's what hurts this thread. I myself have sent many samples to there labs of tubing and water. And know the owner personally and speak with him all the time on the issue. Trust me there is nothing he wants more then this issue resolved. They never changed there tubing.I have tested old stuff he had laying around from years ago to brand new stuff not even released yet. They have a lab that has been testing the water and testing the bad tubing along as the good. I have also been testing at least 100 feet of different tubing in different ways.
> He did tell me what was found in a few tests but i cant remember all the chemicals that he found so i am not even going to try and post them in case i say the wrong thing. I have found for 100% sure that copper sulphate destroys the tubing really fast.
> But please if going to post something like that about a company at least know what you are talking about. Fact is Primochill /Tyler Industries does Test there tubing and has been working on this problem since it came about. And also they never changed there tubing! The only new tubing they have you will know when you see it.It will be released shortly.
> Also lets not forget this is happening with just about every brand of tubing .Just some take a little longer to cloud is all then others.
> I still have 2 loops running now testing to tubing and got a Huge filter setup now but i still have nothing new to say. It does seem though some rolls are better then others.
> Thanks
> *
> MybadOmen*


I can only speak from *my* experience, are you telling me that Primochill is about to release a fix for the current clouding issues?


----------



## Big Elf

Another update. Last week I fitted a new graphics card and the tubing was still free from deposits. However I had a lot of problems bleeding the pumps, particularly getting air out of the second one. I (eventually) worked out there was likely to be a blockage somewhere and when I dismantled the Kryos it had large deposits of gunk like very fine hair and stained black which was seriously reducing flow rates.

This is the first time I've inspected the block in a year but I'm pretty certain that although there's no deposits on the tubing that there's a good chance that it's plasticiser building up slowly over that period.

After cleaning and refitting I was able to bleed the loop without a problem and the flow rates are noticeably a lot higher. The graphics card was after the CPU in the loop and the load temps for it have dropped substantially from 46ºC to 34ºC in an 18ºC ambient.


----------



## Boweezie

Yay. After only using clear Primoflex for 20 days, I am already seeing clouding. The tubing in the middle is unused just to show the contrast. I have used pure DI water with a kill coil. What do I do? Did I just get a bad batch from Performance PC's? Also, just a quick question, would they ship me the same amount again if I were to show them this? ?Just wondering. I have bought some Mayhems Dye and do not want to use it on this tubing. Should I buy some of the same tubing from my local Micro Center? Thanks for the help everyone!


----------



## dtrunk

I too have this issue, primoflex 7/16" clear tubing; bought on 4/6, installed the weekend after, ran less than 30 days. Loop is distilled water and IandK silver kill coil within my reservoir. cleaned all parts thoroughly with distilled water and tried very hard not to touch anything that would b exposed to water. water in the reservoir and cpu block is CLEAR as day. i emailed performance PC and they ran me through the general questions; no dye, no additives, no mixed metals, etc. I emailed primoflex also, awaiting a reply.


----------



## Boweezie

Sweet, someone in the exact same boat as me. Let me know if you have any updates. I'll be emailing them too!


----------



## anubis1127

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boweezie*
> 
> Sweet, someone in the exact same boat as me. Let me know if you have any updates. I'll be emailing them too!


I had the same issue with the clear tubing, emailed them, and they told me it was my loop basically.


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anubis1127*
> 
> I had the same issue with the clear tubing, emailed them, and they told me it was my loop basically.


Of course they did. Few companies will accept blame if there is any doubt at all as to the exact issue. Far better for the bottom line to blame it on something else and not lose any money. If we all just refused to put up with such crap their long term bottom line would suffer, and maybe they would learn a lesson. Unfortunately, we tend to stick our heads in the sand, convince ourselves that it won't happen to us, and continue to buy.

Not me. Primochill is of my acceptable vendor's list and I heartily recommend others do the same.


----------



## jackofhearts495

Stop trashing the tubing companies until you can prove that it's the tube's fault, not something else's.


----------



## Lee17

I have a question about the clouding... did you wash your tubing before using it? Can it help?

Lee


----------



## jackofhearts495

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lee17*
> 
> I have a question about the clouding... did you wash your tubing before using it? Can it help?
> Lee


The best thing is to flush your radiator(s) with vinegar then distilled water, not necessarily your tubing.


----------



## Lee17

I will clean everything when I will order a new pump/reservoir/tubing... I'm waiting for an answers on an other thread. I really don't want to waste my precious money









I will do the tubing, maybe not with 1/4 or 1/3 vinegar but like 1/10, just to say I have put other thing than distilled water. I will see if I can see a difference... but my tubing will be black :S! I will maybe loop my old pump/res combo with a tube and try. If I clean every thing and my tubing do get cloudy like they have do after 5 day I will claim it is the tubing.

Lee


----------



## hot120

I had issues too with Primochill Clear tubing. After about two months, the tubing was yellowish-green. All I ran was distilled water with a silver Killcoil. I am not sweating the color change. I just changed it out with some Primochill UV Blue tubing. Even if this tubing discolors, I won't be able to tell. As long as the water stays clear, I'm good.


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackofhearts495*
> 
> Stop trashing the tubing companies until you can prove that it's the tube's fault, not something else's.


I might be more inclined to be charitable if they had done something to earn the benefit of the doubt, but, they have not.


----------



## Systemlord

Well you know who's going to get my hard earned money, the first company that fix this discoloration and/or plasticizer problem and not one that immediately blames the customer!


----------



## mav2000

Have been using XSPC tubing for a while with zero issues. Have checked them around 2 weeks ago, after a period of 6 months and they are still clean inside. This is black tubing BTW.


----------



## Capt Proton

Good info. Thanks for taking the time.


----------



## jackofhearts495

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Well you know who's going to get my hard earned money, the first company that fix this discoloration and/or plasticizer problem and not one that immediately blames the customer!


They're "immediately blaming the customer" because nothing definitively points to the tubing as the problem. Vendors are selling the same tubing they've always sold; some batches are new, others are old. The tubing hasn't changed; something else has, which is causing all the clouding.


----------



## lowfat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackofhearts495*
> 
> They're "immediately blaming the customer" because nothing definitively points to the tubing as the problem. Vendors are selling the same tubing they've always sold; some batches are new, others are old. The tubing hasn't changed; something else has, which is causing all the clouding.


The tubing definitely has changed. I use two differerent batches on Primoflex in my loop. One set turns brown, the other does not.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackofhearts495*
> 
> They're "immediately blaming the customer" because nothing definitively points to the tubing as the problem. Vendors are selling the same tubing they've always sold; some batches are new, others are old. The tubing hasn't changed; something else has, which is causing all the clouding.


That's not true, I have friends that have been using the same radiators, reservoirs and pumps for years and if anything changed it was the nickel water blocks when upgrading, so unless someone wants to start blaming the water blocks, come-on give a break.









A link or source where your getting this information...?


----------



## TG_bigboss

So is PrimoChill tubing safe? I'm about to go buy some and heard about this issue.


----------



## Warrior1986

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TG_bigboss*
> 
> So is PrimoChill tubing safe? I'm about to go buy some and heard about this issue.


Apparently NO tubing is safe. PrimoChill, Masterkleer, Tygon, it all seems to be affected.


----------



## wermad

Well, amongst the debacles going on in the water thread, I didn't get any feedback on my tube dilemma







, so I'll ask here if you guys don't mind









Re:

Here's the tube Primochill sent me. I haven't gotten word from them or my contacts if this is nda stuff but I don't have the official name. I just call it "Pearl" or "Metallic" blue. On the right is the UV Blue from them to compare. I'm using "electric blue" paracord to accent my psu sleeved cables and with the blue led R4s. I'm really leaning on this new blue tube to go into my next build, but the uv blue would look nice as well. What do you guys think?


----------



## TG_bigboss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Well, amongst the debacles going on in the water thread, I didn't get any feedback on my tube dilemma
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , so I'll ask here if you guys don't mind
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Re:
> Here's the tube Primochill sent me. I haven't gotten word from them or my contacts if this is nda stuff but I don't have the official name. I just call it "Pearl" or "Metallic" blue. On the right is the UV Blue from them to compare. I'm using "electric blue" paracord to accent my psu sleeved cables and with the blue led R4s. I'm really leaning on this new blue tube to go into my next build, but the uv blue would look nice as well. What do you guys think?


one on the left is sexy!







its like silver mixed with blue!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Apparently NO tubing is safe. PrimoChill, Masterkleer, Tygon, it all seems to be affected.


Well cant you just wash the tubing really well before you use it? let just hope I don't have this issue.


----------



## CaptainChaos

I'm partial to the UV blue (it's what I use) but I bet that pearl/metallic blue would look pretty cool in a different light.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CaptainChaos*
> 
> I'm partial to the UV blue (it's what I use) but I bet that pearl/metallic blue would look pretty cool in a different light.


I'll try to get better pics to compare.

So far its a 1 to 1 count









thanks guys


----------



## Way2grouchy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> I'll try to get better pics to compare.
> So far its a 1 to 1 count
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanks guys


I vote UV Blue.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TG_bigboss*
> 
> one on the left is sexy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> its like silver mixed with blue!
> Well cant you just wash the tubing really well before you use it? let just hope I don't have this issue.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CaptainChaos*
> 
> I'm partial to the UV blue (it's what I use) but I bet that pearl/metallic blue would look pretty cool in a different light.


Definitely need to see that pearl in low lighting conditions, please and thank you!


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TG_bigboss*
> 
> one on the left is sexy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> its like silver mixed with blue!
> Well cant you just wash the tubing really well before you use it? let just hope I don't have this issue.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *CaptainChaos*
> 
> I'm partial to the UV blue (it's what I use) but I bet that pearl/metallic blue would look pretty cool in a different light.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Definitely need to see that pearl in low lighting conditions, please and thank you!
Click to expand...

This and under UV lighting.









Since the next loop is for my Bro's system an he's a fan of Blue, I'm thinking that Pearl would look real sharp in his system. Is that 1/2" werm?









*Edit* okay I am officially the Devil. This is like my 6th thread where I have achieved 666 status. Don't mess with me peeps cause I'll turn the Moon blood Red, plagues of locusts will roam the earth birds will fall dead from the sky and acid will rain down upon ye.









~Ceadder


----------



## Hitokiri Battousai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> This and under UV lighting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since the next loop is for my Bro's system an he's a fan of Blue, I'm thinking that Pearl would look real sharp in his system. Is that 1/2" werm?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Edit* okay I am officially the Devil. This is like my 6th thread where I have achieved 666 status. Don't mess with me peeps cause I'll turn the Moon blood Red, plagues of locusts will roam the earth birds will fall dead from the sky and acid will rain down upon ye.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


mind turning the moon blood red anyway that would look Epic for some pics









and on topic for a future build was gonna go w/ red Primochill think i would be ok?


----------



## wermad

No uv since I won't run uv (I do have lights though). I know you can find lots of pics of the uv blue in action (google).





Its a 1 to 2 count now. Tbh, now I'm leaning towards the uv blue


----------



## pvt.joker

make that another vote for the UV blue. I like that it's a bit darker blue, and not nearly purple..


----------



## Ceadderman

What size is that tubing werm? 1/2"? or 3/8"?









~Ceadder


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> What size is that tubing werm? 1/2"? or 3/8"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


3/8x1/2. I think i'm going with the uv blue....


----------



## CaptainChaos

That pearl/metallic blue does indeed look cool with less light beaming down on it but I still like the look of the UV blue more.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> What size is that tubing werm? 1/2"? or 3/8"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3/8x1/2. I think i'm going with the uv blue....
Click to expand...

Aign't kewl. Lemme know which way you go. I'm considering taking the other roll off your hands. Startin to stockpile for my bro's rig.









~Ceadder


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Aign't kewl. Lemme know which way you go. I'm considering taking the other roll off your hands. Startin to stockpile for my bro's rig.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Sorry for the late reply. I've been scrambling to get things up and running with my new build and now that I found one of the gpu(s) is bad, I'm dealing with getting rid of the extra block (

Yeah, I'm still split. UV Blue does have a great darker color to it. I'll hit you up when I make my decision. It's probably be tonight


----------



## Ceadderman

Kay kewl. No rush. Do your thing bro. Still gotta sell some stuff to grab it from you anyway.









Sorry to hear bout your dead GPU, think our boy can get it RMA'ed or were they used when he got em?









~Ceadder


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Kay kewl. No rush. Do your thing bro. Still gotta sell some stuff to grab it from you anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to hear bout your dead GPU, think our boy can get it RMA'ed or were they used when he got em?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


It throttles really bad and temps are higher than the other three. Sadly I can't have it rma'd but good news is that you can't quad these guys (well, kinda bad news too tbh







). I have to run a custom driver to get it or I could use it as a phyX card but it just more hassles to go through. with the saved money on the 4th gpu I may finally get my ips Surround setup I wants


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> It throttles really bad and temps are higher than the other three. Sadly I can't have it rma'd but good news is that you can't quad these guys (well, kinda bad news too tbh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). I have to run a custom driver to get it or I could use it as a phyX card but it just more hassles to go through. with the saved money on the 4th gpu I may finally get my ips Surround setup I wants


Why can't you have it RMA'ed? Also what brand and model is the bad GPU?


----------



## GoodInk

Came home from a month of leave first thing when I walked in the door I could here my pump making all sorts of racket. I ran over to my PC thinking the pump was sucking air but it wasn't. I then saw that my dye had turned purple from blood red. So I turned the power down to the pump to see if it was pumping still and it was but didn't seem to have as much power. Then I saw there was a bunch of crap floating in my loop. So I tore everything down and this is what I saw.

You can see how it has mixed here to make a gunk like stuff


The other side of the block


You can see the white crap floating in the coolant


In these you can see everything is coated in it




I'm using distilled water, kill coil, and Mayhem's dye (blood red mix). I'm also using Primochill tubing, it looks like it might have started to cloud on me and the dye mixed in with what ever that white crap is that they are having problems with. So if you are running dye, make sure you watch for plastersizer leaching, even with good dye, it can gunk your blocks up. Everything cleans up easy, but the rad is going to be a pain. I'm hoping vinegar will clean it up. I also need to clean up my GPU block, it's a EK 5870 block and I have never opened one up before, does anyone have any tips for the o-rings or are they not that bad? I know a Rasa block can be a pain if the inner o-ring stretches. I'll take any other tips for cleaning this mess up. I still need to test the pump to see if it was just too much head pressure or if it is dieing on me.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Why can't you have it RMA'ed? Also what brand and model is the bad GPU?


Bought it preowned so no warranty. The seller was kind enough to take it back refund me. Good news is that I have enough money now and I'm buying my ips monitors.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Came home from a month of leave first thing when I walked in the door I could here my pump making all sorts of racket. I ran over to my PC thinking the pump was sucking air but it wasn't. I then saw that my dye had turned purple from blood red. So I turned the power down to the pump to see if it was pumping still and it was but didn't seem to have as much power. Then I saw there was a bunch of crap floating in my loop. So I tore everything down and this is what I saw.
> You can see how it has mixed here to make a gunk like stuff
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other side of the block
> 
> You can see the white crap floating in the coolant
> 
> In these you can see everything is coated in it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using distilled water, kill coil, and Mayhem's dye (blood red mix). I'm also using Primochill tubing, it looks like it might have started to cloud on me and the dye mixed in with what ever that white crap is that they are having problems with. So if you are running dye, make sure you watch for plastersizer leaching, even with good dye, it can gunk your blocks up. Everything cleans up easy, but the rad is going to be a pain. I'm hoping vinegar will clean it up. I also need to clean up my GPU block, it's a EK 5870 block and I have never opened one up before, does anyone have any tips for the o-rings or are they not that bad? I know a Rasa block can be a pain if the inner o-ring stretches. I'll take any other tips for cleaning this mess up. I still need to test the pump to see if it was just too much head pressure or if it is dieing on me.


try running hot distilled in the loop and flush out it. Do this a few times as I've seen it helps purge out a lot of the free flowing gunk. Then do a vinegar flush to do a final purge. Sucks mate, good luck and let us know how things transpire. As much as I love Mayhems dye and I know this is not theirs nor any other dye maker's fault, I'm not doing dyes with my new build. Just plain distilled with some colored tube.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Why can't you have it RMA'ed? Also what brand and model is the bad GPU?
> 
> 
> 
> Bought it preowned so no warranty. The seller was kind enough to take it back refund me. Good news is that I have enough money now and I'm buying my ips monitors.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Came home from a month of leave first thing when I walked in the door I could here my pump making all sorts of racket. I ran over to my PC thinking the pump was sucking air but it wasn't. I then saw that my dye had turned purple from blood red. So I turned the power down to the pump to see if it was pumping still and it was but didn't seem to have as much power. Then I saw there was a bunch of crap floating in my loop. So I tore everything down and this is what I saw.
> You can see how it has mixed here to make a gunk like stuff
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other side of the block
> 
> You can see the white crap floating in the coolant
> 
> In these you can see everything is coated in it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using distilled water, kill coil, and Mayhem's dye (blood red mix). I'm also using Primochill tubing, it looks like it might have started to cloud on me and the dye mixed in with what ever that white crap is that they are having problems with. So if you are running dye, make sure you watch for plastersizer leaching, even with good dye, it can gunk your blocks up. Everything cleans up easy, but the rad is going to be a pain. I'm hoping vinegar will clean it up. I also need to clean up my GPU block, it's a EK 5870 block and I have never opened one up before, does anyone have any tips for the o-rings or are they not that bad? I know a Rasa block can be a pain if the inner o-ring stretches. I'll take any other tips for cleaning this mess up. I still need to test the pump to see if it was just too much head pressure or if it is dieing on me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> try running hot distilled in the loop and flush out it. Do this a few times as I've seen it helps purge out a lot of the free flowing gunk. Then do a vinegar flush to do a final purge. Sucks mate, good luck and let us know how things transpire. As much as I love Mayhems dye and I know this is not theirs nor any other dye maker's fault, I'm not doing dyes with my new build. Just plain distilled with some colored tube.
Click to expand...

I 100% agree, I plan on using their dye again, just not tubing with it. I think I'll be using piping with dye's now. But for builds that I just want to work, I'll be doing the same as you.


----------



## AddictedGamer93

Is xspc high flex worth a crap? Id like to know, since the raystorm extreme kits come with the stuff...


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AddictedGamer93*
> 
> Is xspc high flex worth a crap? Id like to know, since the raystorm extreme kits come with the stuff...


The stuff that came with the Rasa crapped out immediately. I'm not certain if XSPC used the same tube with the Raystorm kits of if they have updated it (after many complaints with the Rasa kits).


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *AddictedGamer93*
> 
> Is xspc high flex worth a crap? Id like to know, since the raystorm extreme kits come with the stuff...
> 
> 
> 
> The stuff that came with the Rasa crapped out immediately. I'm not certain if XSPC used the same tube with the Raystorm kits of if they have updated it (after many complaints with the Rasa kits).
Click to expand...

I'll second that, Rasa stuff was crap.


----------



## Eagle1337

Probably the xspc flex tubing I don't think that's the same junk as in the the rasa kits..


----------



## solara2xb

Another Story of this dreaded issue.

Hey All,

I recently finished my TH10 build. (see Intel build log section)
Well I wasn't really happy with my Koolance Res so I decided to change it out and use a External mounted pump mount and stand alone Res. During this process I drained the loop and pulled my Res out and had to re-route some tubing. In the process I was shock to find what I did.

I came across this while film inside my tubing and after some research I found it to be Plasticizer in my tubing. Now this loop as been only running for MAYBE 3 weeks total. The fuild I used was NEW and everything was flushed before I installed into my rig with distilled water. Did a good search and came across this thread. Wish I would have seen this sooner, and now knowing that it was a common problem with Primochill Tubing. Now I am really at aw and Now I am afraid.. So in the next coming weeks I am now going to have to tear down my TH10 Rig so I can change out the tubing. Also I will now need to take my water blocks off and make sure I give them a good cleaning. Rads also... Man what a PAIN in the a$$. Just a heads up for those using this tubing. I might have gotten a bad batch.

I have used this tubing in my 700D before and never encountered this problem. So based on what I have read its a hit or miss depending on batch you buy.

Here some pics of how my tubing looks like when I cut it in half.









By solara2xb at 2012-05-26








By solara2xb at 2012-05-26


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solara2xb*
> 
> Another Story of this dreaded issue.
> Hey All,
> I recently finished my TH10 build. (see Intel build log section)
> Well I wasn't really happy with my Koolance Res so I decided to change it out and use a External mounted pump mount and stand alone Res. During this process I drained the loop and pulled my Res out and had to re-route some tubing. In the process I was shock to find what I did.
> I came across this while film inside my tubing and after some research I found it to be Plasticizer in my tubing. Now this loop as been only running for MAYBE 3 weeks total. The fuild I used was NEW and everything was flushed before I installed into my rig with distilled water. Did a good search and came across this thread. Wish I would have seen this sooner, and now knowing that it was a common problem with Primochill Tubing. Now I am really at aw and Now I am afraid.. So in the next coming weeks I am now going to have to tear down my TH10 Rig so I can change out the tubing. Also I will now need to take my water blocks off and make sure I give them a good cleaning. Rads also... Man what a PAIN in the a$$. Just a heads up for those using this tubing. I might have gotten a bad batch.
> I have used this tubing in my 700D before and never encountered this problem. So based on what I have read its a hit or miss depending on batch you buy.
> Here some pics of how my tubing looks like when I cut it in half.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By solara2xb at 2012-05-26
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By solara2xb at 2012-05-26


Wait a second here!
From what i ve read all these months within this thread, this white powder is not a real issue. Its actually a cosmetic issue, since it does not affect the flow and It can be found only at the tubes walls and NOT in the radiator or fittings or pumps. In about a week i will change the Mayhems Ultra Pure water of my loop after 6 months of use and will also check my Primochill lrt black and UV blue (around 4 meters of tubing).

I will have a look at my cpu , northbridge blocks as well and only if i find deposits there i will start thinking of cleaning my MORA rad. I would suggest you to do the same thing! Bythe way, my innovatek filter became slightly yellowish with few black plastic particles after all these months ofuse. Most probably this yellowish colour is silver ions and/or flux from the radiator. No white deposits on it whatsoever and absolutely no flow difference based on my koolance flowmeter reading!

So, i would suggest you not to get disappointed unless you see that your cpu block has such powder as well, in which case its easily removable (the rad cleaning at least for my case would be an issue).


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solara2xb*
> 
> Another Story of this dreaded issue.
> Hey All,
> I recently finished my TH10 build. (see Intel build log section)
> Well I wasn't really happy with my Koolance Res so I decided to change it out and use a External mounted pump mount and stand alone Res. During this process I drained the loop and pulled my Res out and had to re-route some tubing. In the process I was shock to find what I did.
> I came across this while film inside my tubing and after some research I found it to be Plasticizer in my tubing. Now this loop as been only running for MAYBE 3 weeks total. The fuild I used was NEW and everything was flushed before I installed into my rig with distilled water. Did a good search and came across this thread. Wish I would have seen this sooner, and now knowing that it was a common problem with Primochill Tubing. Now I am really at aw and Now I am afraid.. So in the next coming weeks I am now going to have to tear down my TH10 Rig so I can change out the tubing. Also I will now need to take my water blocks off and make sure I give them a good cleaning. Rads also... Man what a PAIN in the a$$. Just a heads up for those using this tubing. I might have gotten a bad batch.
> I have used this tubing in my 700D before and never encountered this problem. So based on what I have read its a hit or miss depending on batch you buy.
> Here some pics of how my tubing looks like when I cut it in half.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By solara2xb at 2012-05-26
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By solara2xb
> 
> 
> at 2012-05-26


This issue is getting old and I'm tired of hearing member's say that Primochill is actually doing testing to find the cause, well it's about time and how much longer are we going to have to wait? I'm surprised Primochill hasn't bothered to comment on this clouding issue right here in our forums...?


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *solara2xb*
> 
> Another Story of this dreaded issue.
> Hey All,
> I recently finished my TH10 build. (see Intel build log section)
> Well I wasn't really happy with my Koolance Res so I decided to change it out and use a External mounted pump mount and stand alone Res. During this process I drained the loop and pulled my Res out and had to re-route some tubing. In the process I was shock to find what I did.
> I came across this while film inside my tubing and after some research I found it to be Plasticizer in my tubing. Now this loop as been only running for MAYBE 3 weeks total. The fuild I used was NEW and everything was flushed before I installed into my rig with distilled water. Did a good search and came across this thread. Wish I would have seen this sooner, and now knowing that it was a common problem with Primochill Tubing. Now I am really at aw and Now I am afraid.. So in the next coming weeks I am now going to have to tear down my TH10 Rig so I can change out the tubing. Also I will now need to take my water blocks off and make sure I give them a good cleaning. Rads also... Man what a PAIN in the a$$. Just a heads up for those using this tubing. I might have gotten a bad batch.
> I have used this tubing in my 700D before and never encountered this problem. So based on what I have read its a hit or miss depending on batch you buy.
> Here some pics of how my tubing looks like when I cut it in half.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By solara2xb at 2012-05-26
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By solara2xb at 2012-05-26
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait a second here!
> From what i ve read all these months within this thread, this white powder is not a real issue. Its actually a cosmetic issue, since it does not affect the flow and It can be found only at the tubes walls and NOT in the radiator or fittings or pumps. In about a week i will change the Mayhems Ultra Pure water of my loop after 6 months of use and will also check my Primochill lrt black and UV blue (around 4 meters of tubing).
> 
> I will have a look at my cpu , northbridge blocks as well and only if i find deposits there i will start thinking of cleaning my MORA rad. I would suggest you to do the same thing! Bythe way, my innovatek filter became slightly yellowish with few black plastic particles after all these months ofuse. Most probably this yellowish colour is silver ions and/or flux from the radiator. No white deposits on it whatsoever and absolutely no flow difference based on my koolance flowmeter reading!
> 
> So, i would suggest you not to get disappointed unless you see that your cpu block has such powder as well, in which case its easily removable (the rad cleaning at least for my case would be an issue).
Click to expand...

As long as it stays a powder it is harmless, but my problem came from the mix of the powder and dye. The flakes will normal turn to dust under any pressure like going through the cpu block or the pump, this is the powder we are all seeing.

BTW vinegar will clean up the rads.


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> As long as it stays a powder it is harmless, but my problem came from the mix of the powder and dye. The flakes will normal turn to dust under any pressure like going through the cpu block or the pump, this is the powder we are all seeing.
> BTW vinegar will clean up the rads.


So, from what you are saying,iunderstand that the combination of the dye and the powder is capable of getting the powder off the tube walls and create a mess, otherwise with simple plain distilled water the powder can be found only at the tubes walls, correct...?


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> As long as it stays a powder it is harmless, but my problem came from the mix of the powder and dye. The flakes will normal turn to dust under any pressure like going through the cpu block or the pump, this is the powder we are all seeing.
> BTW vinegar will clean up the rads.
> 
> 
> 
> So, from what you are saying,iunderstand that the combination of the dye and the powder is capable of getting the powder off the tube walls and create a mess, otherwise with simple plain distilled water the powder can be found only at the tubes walls, correct...?
Click to expand...

No you'll still get it every where but it's so fine it normally won't clog the blocks. I wouldn't run the tubing long term like this, I'm sure it doesn't help you temps if it gets too thick. Make sure you flush your rad with hot vinegar, some say it helps keep it from happening. When I cleaned up my rad I thought I might as well flush my old ones that I ran for about a year and flushed with hot water for 20-30 mins each. Both had this blue color stuff come out of them, it could have just been tarnish but a lot of other crap came out of them too.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> No you'll still get it every where but it's so fine it normally won't clog the blocks. I wouldn't run the tubing long term like this, I'm sure it doesn't help you temps if it gets too thick. Make sure you flush your rad with hot vinegar, some say it helps keep it from happening. When I cleaned up my rad I thought I might as well flush my old ones that I ran for about a year and flushed with hot water for 20-30 mins each. Both had this blue color stuff come out of them, it could have just been tarnish but a lot of other crap came out of them too.


Any particular brand vinegar? Would you say it's almost a bluish green?


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> No you'll still get it every where but it's so fine it normally won't clog the blocks. I wouldn't run the tubing long term like this, I'm sure it doesn't help you temps if it gets too thick. Make sure you flush your rad with hot vinegar, some say it helps keep it from happening. When I cleaned up my rad I thought I might as well flush my old ones that I ran for about a year and flushed with hot water for 20-30 mins each. Both had this blue color stuff come out of them, it could have just been tarnish but a lot of other crap came out of them too.
> 
> 
> 
> Any particular brand vinegar? Would you say it's almost a bluish green?
Click to expand...

Any brand of vinegar will do so long as the acidic level is 5% or less. Get it as hot as you can stand it. You're gonna be holding a hot tamale otherwise. I used a 500ml pyrex measuring cup and heated the vinegar 3 minutes in a 1k watt microwave and flushed

500ml straight vinegar.
500ml 50/50 with distilled
1000ml Distilled
500ml cold flush

in my used radiator. For a new one I would probably suggest doubling that and running a pump through a strainer and pickup underneath it to get at the clean liquid.

~Ceadder


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Any brand of vinegar will do so long as the acidic level is 5% or less. Get it as hot as you can stand it. You're gonna be holding a hot tamale otherwise. I used a 500ml pyrex measuring cup and heated the vinegar 3 minutes in a 1k watt microwave and flushed
> 500ml straight vinegar.
> 500ml 50/50 with distilled
> 1000ml Distilled
> 500ml cold flush
> in my used radiator. For a new one I would probably suggest doubling that and running a pump through a strainer and pickup underneath it to get at the clean liquid.
> ~Ceadder


Wow 3 minutes I would think it might boil after that amount of time! So the vinegar shouldn't harm my PMP-450 D5 pump?


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Any brand of vinegar will do so long as the acidic level is 5% or less. Get it as hot as you can stand it. You're gonna be holding a hot tamale otherwise. I used a 500ml pyrex measuring cup and heated the vinegar 3 minutes in a 1k watt microwave and flushed
> 500ml straight vinegar.
> 500ml 50/50 with distilled
> 1000ml Distilled
> 500ml cold flush
> in my used radiator. For a new one I would probably suggest doubling that and running a pump through a strainer and pickup underneath it to get at the clean liquid.
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow 3 minutes I would think it might boil after that amount of time! So the vinegar shouldn't harm my PMP-450 D5 pump?
Click to expand...

Shouldn't. You aren't gonna leave it running in the loop long enough and that's what the distilled hot flush is for and the cold flush following.









~Ceadder


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> No you'll still get it every where but it's so fine it normally won't clog the blocks. I wouldn't run the tubing long term like this, I'm sure it doesn't help you temps if it gets too thick. Make sure you flush your rad with hot vinegar, some say it helps keep it from happening. When I cleaned up my rad I thought I might as well flush my old ones that I ran for about a year and flushed with hot water for 20-30 mins each. Both had this blue color stuff come out of them, it could have just been tarnish but a lot of other crap came out of them too.
> 
> 
> 
> Any particular brand vinegar? Would you say it's almost a bluish green?
Click to expand...

Yep, bluish green and other crap. As the vinegar, Ceadderman is right, 5% hot as you can get it. Now running it through the pump, you may not want it too hot.


----------



## wermad

Alright guys, I'm crossing my fingers usps can deliver my res this Saturday and I'll have pics of the new tube installed. After putting my rig together and finishing the sleeve, I've decided to go with the "Pearl Blue" as it matches the sleeve better than the UV Blue.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Yep, bluish green and other crap. As the vinegar, Ceadderman is right, 5% hot as you can get it. Now running it through the pump, you may not want it too hot.


That sounds like corrosion, that's also found clinging to the Statue Of Liberty. Two years ago I pre-flushed my HWLabs GTX480 radiator (using only distilled) and left a bit of moisture inside. When it was time to install the radiator it had Lots of greenish blue stuff growing everywhere inside! I will probably use my retiring DDC 3.25 pump to flush the rads and not my new PMP-450.


----------



## wermad




----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*


Nice I like how you mounted the PSU up front, also I don't think I have ever seen someone fit two 360's in a case that size before. I forgot what pump you were going to use? A DDC would be a better choice since your running restrictive water blocks, I also like that sparkle blue tubing! It will be interesting to find out if Primochill tubing is still clouding up given it's a new color of tubing.


----------



## zander89

I'm just going to hop in here and ask a nubbish question. Apart from the Tygon® Plasticizer Free Tubing ( which is crazy expensive.) is there any tubing which is having less issues with leeching. I started with the junk that came with the xspc rasa kit. 3 weeks and it was like this










I switched to some masterkleer clear UV tubing. When i first installed it. ( nice and clear)









A week later then i installed my 670 and its already starting to cloud.










Are there any ways to minimise the leeching/ postpone it?( Im running with deionised and mayhem biocide.) Would it be worth getting some distilled and killcoil? Will it make ANY difference wtsoever?

Or are any other kinds of tubing taking longer to cloud? Idealy i would like clear UV Blue tubing if possible because of the look. But it seems there are not any options that wont just cloud up and look terrible. Even if it took a few months to cloud i wouldn't mind replacing the tubing every so often, just one week takes the piss.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zander89*
> 
> I'm just going to hop in here and ask a nubbish question. Apart from the Tygon® Plasticizer Free Tubing ( which is crazy expensive.) is there any tubing which is having less issues with leeching. I started with the junk that came with the xspc rasa kit. 3 weeks and it was like this
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I switched to some masterkleer clear UV tubing. When i first installed it. ( nice and clear)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A week later then i installed my 670 and its already starting to cloud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are there any ways to minimise the leeching/ postpone it?( Im running with deionised and mayhem biocide.) Would it be worth getting some distilled and killcoil? Will it make ANY difference wtsoever?
> Or are any other kinds of tubing taking longer to cloud? Idealy i would like clear UV Blue tubing if possible because of the look. But it seems there are not any options that wont just cloud up and look terrible. Even if it took a few months to cloud i wouldn't mind replacing the tubing every so often, just one week takes the piss.


There is, solid copper tubing that's chrome plated will not cloud!


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Nice I like how you mounted the PSU up front, also I don't think I have ever seen someone fit two 360's in a case that size before. I forgot what pump you were going to use? A DDC would be a better choice since your running restrictive water blocks, I also like that sparkle blue tubing! It will be interesting to find out if Primochill tubing is still clouding up given it's a new color of tubing.


Its been done quite a bit but most actually stick it in the front drive bays. I was going that rout but I'm loosing a lot of space to stick my hdd/ssd in. After some careful measuring it fit like a charm. One of the guys did an inverted mb and cut the drive bays to slide the psu there. I didn't want to hack my case so I just squeezed it in as best I could and it did fit







.

I am running a DDC 3.2 with an XSPC top. Its been powering through many of my other and more complex builds (including quad sli).


----------



## zander89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> There is, solid copper tubing that's chrome plated will not cloud!


well that sucks. I suppose my mums bf if a plumber, might just get him to do it in some nice metal







haha


----------



## TomSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zander89*
> 
> well that sucks. I suppose my mums bf if a plumber, might just get him to do it in some nice metal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> haha


Zander, that is EXACTLY how my tubes look after a month or so.

I've been doing a hell of a lot of research on this, and I can pretty safely say, inhibitors, kill coils, or dye is not the problem. It's got to be the tubing leaking plasticizer. I've tried running my loop on distilled only, distilled with dye, distilled with kill coil and dye. All give the same effect.

I'm currently running my loop on the soft Aberdeen tap water we have here lol!. After 4 months, It's just the same as distilled.

However!.

This browny white gunk, it cleans off REAL easy, and you can have the tubing looking like new, I've done it about 3 times now, each time I do it it takes longer to return, I've also changed some tubing and added fresh bits which no doubt sets me back. My theory on this is that once the crap has leeched out, they'll see clear for good. Last flush was about 4 days ago, so heres to hoping







.

TUBE CLEANING:

This is how I return my tubes to normal. Everyone must have those metal wire coathangers at home, you know?, the one's you can untwist into a long peice of wire. I simply untwist the coathanger, find an old peice of sock or cloth, and tie it to the end, rather like a bandana, if you get it right, you can have the ball of the knot just slightly larger than the ID of the tubing. Simply wet the tubing and the peice of cloth on the coathanger, apply some ordinary dish soap, and proceed to rod them thoroughly. Rinse and check before finishing and you'll have brand spanking clear tubes again.


----------



## zander89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TomSG*
> 
> Zander, that is EXACTLY how my tubes look after a month or so.
> I've been doing a hell of a lot of research on this, and I can pretty safely say, inhibitors, kill coils, or dye is not the problem. It's got to be the tubing leaking plasticizer. I've tried running my loop on distilled only, distilled with dye, distilled with kill coil and dye. All give the same effect.
> I'm currently running my loop on the soft Aberdeen tap water we have here lol!. After 4 months, It's just the same as distilled.
> However!.
> This browny white gunk, it cleans off REAL easy, and you can have the tubing looking like new, I've done it about 3 times now, each time I do it it takes longer to return, I've also changed some tubing and added fresh bits which no doubt sets me back. My theory on this is that once the crap has leeched out, they'll see clear for good. Last flush was about 4 days ago, so heres to hoping
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> TUBE CLEANING:
> This is how I return my tubes to normal. Everyone must have those metal wire coathangers at home, you know?, the one's you can untwist into a long peice of wire. I simply untwist the coathanger, find an old peice of sock or cloth, and tie it to the end, rather like a bandana, if you get it right, you can have the ball of the knot just slightly larger than the ID of the tubing. Simply wet the tubing and the peice of cloth on the coathanger, apply some ordinary dish soap, and proceed to rod them thoroughly. Rinse and check before finishing and you'll have brand spanking clear tubes again.


was going to say mate running it on soft water isn't really a good idea. Although it wont effect the tubes persay, it will cause your block to gunk up/corrode! get it out nowwww







youll have to take apart your block in order to see the damage ( it might not be now, but further down the line you will start to get problems. I would say if you cant get distilled, go and buy some deionised water from halford/a car parts shop ( its called battery water).

On another note i think your onto something there. I assume there is only so much plasticiser that can leech out, so once you have run it for a few months you can probably assume that the majority has leeched. I will defo be giving this a go. I assumed that the plasticiser somewhat clung to the tubing. But if its that easy to get off ill probs break down my loop in a few months time ( before i46







) and give it a good old clean


----------



## TomSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zander89*
> 
> was going to say mate running it on soft water isn't really a good idea. Although it wont effect the tubes persay, it will cause your block to gunk up/corrode! get it out nowwww
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> youll have to take apart your block in order to see the damage ( it might not be now, but further down the line you will start to get problems. I would say if you cant get distilled, go and buy some deionised water from halford/a car parts shop ( its called battery water).
> On another note i think your onto something there. I assume there is only so much plasticiser that can leech out, so once you have run it for a few months you can probably assume that the majority has leeched. I will defo be giving this a go. I assumed that the plasticiser somewhat clung to the tubing. But if its that easy to get off ill probs break down my loop in a few months time ( before i46
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and give it a good old clean


It's hard water that'll cause problems. I've been on it for months, soft tap water like here in the hills shouldn't be any different from distilled really, all water is eventually going to be the same after time in a loop. The moment you pour distilled into the plastic bottle its already contaminated. De-ionised will grab back it's ions from your components and anything it touches. So long as the water isn't hard. There shouldn't be any problems using tap water really, but again, totally depends on the supply and it's quality.

Yeah it scubs off to new in no time. Hopefully there is a point where it can leech no more. I'll keep monitoring mine.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TomSG*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *zander89*
> 
> was going to say mate running it on soft water isn't really a good idea. Although it wont effect the tubes persay, it will cause your block to gunk up/corrode! get it out nowwww
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> youll have to take apart your block in order to see the damage ( it might not be now, but further down the line you will start to get problems. I would say if you cant get distilled, go and buy some deionised water from halford/a car parts shop ( its called battery water).
> On another note i think your onto something there. I assume there is only so much plasticiser that can leech out, so once you have run it for a few months you can probably assume that the majority has leeched. I will defo be giving this a go. I assumed that the plasticiser somewhat clung to the tubing. But if its that easy to get off ill probs break down my loop in a few months time ( before i46
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and give it a good old clean
> 
> 
> 
> It's hard water that'll cause problems. I've been on it for months, soft tap water like here in the hills shouldn't be any different from distilled really, all water is eventually going to be the same after time in a loop. The moment you pour distilled into the plastic bottle its already contaminated. De-ionised will grab back it's ions from your components and anything it touches. So long as the water isn't hard. There shouldn't be any problems using tap water really, but again, totally depends on the supply and it's quality.
> 
> Yeah it scubs off to new in no time. Hopefully there is a point where it can leech no more. I'll keep monitoring mine.
Click to expand...

You might take a run over to Martin's Liquid Labs and check out his water review. Might change your mind somewhat. Yeah the interior of the jug does leave some impurities in the Distilled, but nothing close to the impurities that attach themselves to common Tap water.









~Ceadder


----------



## RussianJ

My primochill Had terrible problems. Stained some of my acrylic had to hardcore polish it out.

Never again. Swapped to feser red again. No stains, but stains your hands on the outside.


----------



## wermad

I've been running the Primochill for a few days. I'm breaking down my rig this weekend since I need access to redo some wiring







. I'll check it then to see if it has plasticize.


----------



## superericla

I got some clear Masterkleer tubing in today. I'll let you know how it holds up in a few weeks.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superericla*
> 
> I got some clear Masterkleer tubing in today. I'll let you know how it holds up in a few weeks.


Does Masterkleer tubing bend as well as PrimoChill tubing?


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> There is, solid copper tubing that's chrome plated will not cloud!












Are you talking about me?


----------



## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Does Masterkleer tubing bend as well as PrimoChill tubing?


Because of your question I decided to go a bit more scientific with it and took pictures of each tubing at specified bend diameters. The results are below.

Primochill at 6"


Masterkleer at 6"


Primochill at 5"


Masterkleer at 5"


Primochill at 4"


Masterkleer at 4"


Primochill at 3"


Masterkleer at 3"


If you notice, at a 3" bend diameter, the Primochill tubing has a noticeable and very major kink while the Masterkleer does not. It seems as though the Masterkleer actually bends better than Primochill. Also keep in mind the price. I got my Masterkleer tubing for $0.49 a foot, while Primochill is much more expensive.


----------



## B NEGATIVE

No surprises there,less plasticizer equals more rigidity.
Nice little DIY demo there,I like.


----------



## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> No surprises there,less plasticizer equals more rigidity.
> Nice little DIY demo there,I like.


Basically, based off of this small and very DIY test, I would recommend people buy Masterkleer over Primochill. It bends much better, costs a fraction of Primochill's price, and has less plasticizer, so will likely have less issues when run in a loop long-term. I just tried the same thing with some Tygon 3603 tubing... the results were horrendous.


----------



## zander89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> No surprises there,less plasticizer equals more rigidity.
> Nice little DIY demo there,I like.


thats a bit of a strange one. my masterkleer tubing is not very rigid at all! in comparison with superericla's. So more plasticiser = it being more floppy/less rigid? I found that my masterkleer was much more flexible and less rigid than the stuff that came with my Rasa 750 kit. ( which clouded up much worse and quicker than my masterkleer which indicated to me that it would have had more plasticiser in it, or maybe it was just cheap so it leeched out faster) :s all very confusing. Either way after about 3 weeks my masterkleer is clouding, but not as badly as the xspc stuff. When i add the 670 into the loop ill clear out the old tubing. Its a bit annoying because then ill have to break down the loop again after a month of having my gfx card in to clean out the newer tubing, longgggg. How long has plasticiser leeching been an issue? You thought that companies would have sorted it by now!


----------



## squick3n

Less than two weeks of use. I was replacing a fitting and snipped off the end to shorten the tubing run. I wasn't expecting to see anything after such a short length of time, but there it is. Just running distilled with PT Nuke


----------



## zander89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squick3n*
> 
> Less than two weeks of use. I was replacing a fitting and snipped off the end to shorten the tubing run. I wasn't expecting to see anything after such a short length of time, but there it is. Just running distilled with PT Nuke


yep happens pretty dam quickly. I saw some clouding after 1 week. ( not terrible, but noticeable when you have clear tubing) shal;l run this tubing for another month or so then clean it out when i put my 670 in it!


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you talking about me?


No.









Hay when are the tubing companies going to sort all of this plasticizer problems, we haven't heard not one comment from them! They come off like they care less about the plasticizer problems, no comments so far.


----------



## MaFi0s0

Heres a pic of my loop using Tygon 2001, it takes some inefficient routing and some man handling but its doable.

I wouldnt use it with plastic barbs due to too much friction and it being hard to take off the barb. Also Swiftech fittings have a sharp lip that bites in to the tube so grip is good with compression fittings.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







The hardest piece by far is the short one going from graphics card to top rad on the left there, pretty much the limit of the tubing as its a tiny s bend and had to be cm perfect in length.

The long piece on the right is only so long cause I needed the slack to take out the res.


----------



## Warrior1986

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Hay when are the tubing companies going to sort all of this plasticizer problems, we haven't heard not one comment from them! They come off like they care less about the plasticizer problems, no comments so far.


This is what is REALLY starting to bother me. Clearly this problem is extremely bad and widespread, and yet there's no sign of the problem being worked on or even an acknowledgment. What the hell is going on?


----------



## zander89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> This is what is REALLY starting to bother me. Clearly this problem is extremely bad and widespread, and yet there's no sign of the problem being worked on or even an acknowledgment. What the hell is going on?


agreed. It seems that all the companies are simply digging a hole in the ground and ignoring everything that is being said on all these forums. This isnt just a small localised problem. Its wisespread and there are literally thousands of people having issues.

Also i dont see why this isnt seen as a marketing opportunity for companies, the first one to hop into the market with a range of plasticiser free tubing ( that isnt stupidly expensive) that is avilable to normal people who want to WC, they are going to be quids in. Quite frankly companies are losing out on a lot of money by not listening. The amount of people who would tear apart their loop and redo their tubing to have plasticiser free tubing/ stuff that doesnt cloud would be massive


----------



## skyn3t

I have been subbed on this thread for long time and see all the crazzy stuff caused by Plasticizer Problems, and last week i had to drain my loop and guest what *Plasticizer Problems* i know my tubes had clouded a bit but not this much you can see very much after the water in my tube had dried. i can scrape it off but the question is

1- This is suppose to happen?
2- This happen with any tube brand?
3- What choice do we have for this not happen?

*Tube Brand : Tygon 3603 7/16" ID (5/8" OD) Clear Tubing (TYGON-3603-7/16)* i had take those pic't with my windows Phone 7 Trophy so i think its ok.


----------



## Eagle1337

While i have no pictures but i've been running my primochill for about 6 months so far with just distilled and no plasticizing. Just added newer primochill LRT tubing to my gpu part of the loop... let's see what happens. Friend's Black primochill LRT tubing within 5 months went pure white and has been probably the worst plasticizing i've seen.. minus the guy above me.


----------



## Warrior1986

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I have been subbed on this thread for long time and see all the crazzy stuff caused by Plasticizer Problems, and last week i had to drain my loop and guest what *Plasticizer Problems* i know my tubes had clouded a bit but not this much you can see very much after the water in my tube had dried. i can scrape it off but the question is
> 1- This is suppose to happen?
> 2- This happen with any tube brand?
> 3- What choice do we have for this not happen?
> *Tube Brand : Tygon 3603 7/16" ID (5/8" OD) Clear Tubing (TYGON-3603-7/16)* i had take those pic't with my windows Phone 7 Trophy so i think its ok.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


I'm sorry but HOLY JUMPING *****BALLS that is absolutely HORRIBLE. I cannot believe that tubing used to look clear.


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I have been subbed on this thread for long time and see all the crazzy stuff caused by Plasticizer Problems, and last week i had to drain my loop and guest what *Plasticizer Problems* i know my tubes had clouded a bit but not this much you can see very much after the water in my tube had dried. i can scrape it off but the question is
> 1- This is suppose to happen?
> 2- This happen with any tube brand?
> 3- What choice do we have for this not happen?
> *Tube Brand : Tygon 3603 7/16" ID (5/8" OD) Clear Tubing (TYGON-3603-7/16)* i had take those pic't with my windows Phone 7 Trophy so i think its ok.


Did you find any white deposits also in other parts of your loop eg fittings, rad, waterblocks OR was it only on the tube?


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> I'm sorry but HOLY JUMPING *****BALLS that is absolutely HORRIBLE. I cannot believe that tubing used to look clear.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> Did you find any white deposits also in other parts of your loop eg fittings, rad, waterblocks OR was it only on the tube?


only in the tube , i had drained all the water and checked each part i just found this in the tube no where else, I'm kind of upset about this because WE ( the Consumers ) spend a lot money in this type of material to put in our RiG and in the end look what WE GOT. a junk *Plasticizer Problems* stuck inside the loop * I mean tube * IDK where is get stuck and growing anyways it not supposed to happen. sometimes i think in moving to cooper tubing this way i don't have to deal with this BS. so they got our money and we get ****** up. if i had this stuff in my hardware res,rad,pump and fittings i would call Tygon for some explanation about it and telling them the hardware we user is not cheap for some junk tube i know many people has found this in primochill tube, i had a primochill tube loop white and i still have a peace with i toke my parts out to maintenance and i never found anything inside my tube it was clear like day one. so i think the only thing is left for us is to deal with ourselves.

what is the choices for new tubing without Plasticizer Problems?


----------



## Systemlord

Tygon A-60-G Norprene tubing, granted it's not pretty.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Tygon A-60-G Norprene tubing, granted it's not pretty.


That Tubing is ungly ACK.. any other brand for red tubing or transparent red tubing


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> That Tubing is ungly ACK.. any other brand for red tubing or transparent red tubing


It's either ugly black Norprene or having plasticizer problems, options are limited.


----------



## axipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> That Tubing is ungly ACK.. any other brand for red tubing or transparent red tubing
> 
> 
> 
> It's either ugly black Norprene or having plasticizer problems.
Click to expand...

A little coloured anti-kink coil or tube sleeving would fix that.


----------



## MaFi0s0

Norprene leaches, whats stopping you guys from using Tygon 2001?

I am confused, its expensive by comparison to other tubing but not to the cost of a whole WC loop and computer hardware...


----------



## Marcusk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaFi0s0*
> 
> Norprene leaches, whats stopping you guys from using Tygon 2001?
> I am confused, its expensive by comparison to other tubing but not to the cost of a whole WC loop and computer hardware...


Tygon 2001 is "clouded" already when new, and the clouded look is mostly what people are trying to avoid. Plus Tygon 2001 is supposedly very hard to make bends with.


----------



## Warrior1986

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marcusk*
> 
> Tygon 2001 is "clouded" already when new, and the clouded look is mostly what people are trying to avoid. Plus Tygon 2001 is supposedly very hard to make bends with.


Exactly this. I took a look at 2001 and it's not crystal clear, so there is no point in buying it. And yes, it's tough to make bends with and seems to be more prone to kinking.


----------



## nawon72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaFi0s0*
> Norprene leaches










of it happening to anyone who has pics? I've only seen this one thread, but I don't believe it.


----------



## Falknir

You guys could pickup Superthane Ether, Durelene, Fluorinated ethylene propylen (FEP), FEP inert, or Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) tubing. At least you will get tubing that doesn't leech over time like PVC tubing, and should not cloud horribly.


----------



## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falknir*
> 
> You guys could pickup Superthane Ether, Durelene, Fluorinated ethylene propylen (FEP), FEP inert, or Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) tubing. At least you will get tubing that doesn't leech over time *like PVC tubing*, and should not cloud horribly.


Proof? I've heard the Durelene is similar to Masterkleer.

Edit: Durelene is still PVC tubing

The Excelthane Polyurethane Tubing supposedly contains no plasticizer, but is only sold in 25' intervals.


----------



## Falknir

My mistake, should have checked my wording a bit better. I included it in the list as the few people I knew who used it (including Martinm210), recommended it, as it never clouded on them (yet).


----------



## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falknir*
> 
> My mistake, should have checked my wording a bit better. I included it in the list as the few people I knew who used it (including Martinm210), recommended it, as it never clouded on them (yet).


No problem. It's always good to hear about recommended tubing, especially now that all of these plasticizer issues have shown up.


----------



## MaFi0s0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> of it happening to anyone who has pics? I've only seen this one thread, but I don't believe it.


No pics I came across it somewhere else causing staining.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Exactly this. I took a look at 2001 and it's not crystal clear, so there is no point in buying it. And yes, it's tough to make bends with and seems to be more prone to kinking.


It is tough to make bends with, I have pics of my loop with it, end of page 72, I am using anti kink coils with it.

You wont be able to make good looking loops with it thats for sure.

Maybe a solution is some sort of res before the waterblock with a big filter???


----------



## skyn3t

who want to share The Excelthane Polyurethane Tubing supposedly contains no plasticizer, but is only sold in 25' intervals. with me for testing i can order it and when it get here i can cut half of the length 12'.6 Feet and ship it for who want to share it with me ( partner must pay the shipping cost for he's half) Tubing - 7/16in. ID X 5/8in. OD

shipped to my home any price paid should be fear split fear for both partner.



Tubing Spec

Excelthane tubing is the answer *when you need flexible polyurethane tubing that has high tear strength* and *superior abrasion resistance* as well as weather resistance. Add in its clarity and ability to withstand *extreme temperatures from -100°F to 200°F*, and you've got an excellent alternative to rubber and plastic materials. Made of a tough, ester-based polyurethane, *Excelthane contains no plasticizer that can cause flow contamination or tube hardening*. Excelthane polyurethane tubing is great for oils, greases, fuels and many chemicals, making it ideal for a variety of applications, from transfer of abrasive products to pneumatic lines and cable jacketing. And, it meets FDA criteria for use in food and beverage applications. The combination of product flexibility and manufacturing to tight tolerances allows the Excelthane tubing to attach with ease to standard industry fittings. Durometer is 81 Shore A, specific gravity is 1.20, and tensile strength is 6,050 PSI.

So i guess we found alternative tubing but we need to test it ourselves.

Thanks Falknir post #738 for point us in this direction.


----------



## AzN1337c0d3r

That product is ester-based polyurethane. Water attacks it.

I think you want this instead, but in the pictures it's not very transparent.
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=83856&catid=717


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AzN1337c0d3r*
> 
> That product is ester-based polyurethane. Water attacks it.
> I think you want this instead, but in the pictures it's not very transparent.
> http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=83856&catid=717


I just inveted Martinm210 to visit us in this thread to give us some advice on whether to choice or not i know its kind off difficult but worth the try and i know are so many brand's out there to choice and see if its works or not without the Plasticizer Problems.


----------



## Martinm210

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I just inveted Martinm210 to visit us in this thread to give us some advice on whether to choice or not i know its kind off difficult but worth the try and i know are so many brand's out there to choice and see if its works or not without the Plasticizer Problems.


You guys have more experience with tubing than I have, but I can share the tubing I've used and give you a quick 2c clouding report:

Tygon 3603 - Have had clouding problems, particularly when used with dyes/glycols. Like the durometer, but hated the clouding, typically wanted to replace it after 3 months of use.

Duralene (Saint Gobain) from SWC - Not quite as flexible as the Tygon 3603, but good enough, very low cost and I've run this in water systems for very long periods of time without any clouding issues. This stuff get's my vote for best bang for the buck tubing that doesn't cloud much.

Feser Tube UV colored - I've used blue and green in this in the larger 1/2" x 3/4" size also for extended periods of time in water/PT nuke systems for 2 years without any problems at all. The smaller thinner stuff didn't have clouding issues, but it did get rather stiff compared to the larger size stuff that remained good even after years of use. Only issue I've had is the dye from one tube can transfer onto other tubes when it's very fresh, but it's good stuff...really like it other than the cost.

Home Depot PVC - Total crap, clouds up almost instantly and way too stiff to use, it can get you by in a pinch when you are out of tubing, but this stuff is not at all fun to use.

XSPC UV colored tube - I've used a little bit of this and also didn't have any clouding problems, but it was a bit stiff in durometer for my liking.

That's all I've used and while I have had clouding issues, I've never seen anything to the extent in these threads where a solid white film has formed. Mine has always been more of a translucent clouding issue and seem to be associated with using coolants other than distilled water/PTnuke type solutions. I'm no chemist, but there's all sorts of possibilities between the tubing and many of the coolants out there considering the number of chemicals present and mixed. Never tried Primochill tubing although I've heard good things about it's flexibility.

Hope that helps..
Martin


----------



## skyn3t

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Martinm210*
> 
> You guys have more experience with tubing than I have, but I can share the tubing I've used and give you a quick 2c clouding report:
> Tygon 3603 - Have had clouding problems, particularly when used with dyes/glycols. Like the durometer, but hated the clouding, typically wanted to replace it after 3 months of use.
> Duralene (Saint Gobain) from SWC - Not quite as flexible as the Tygon 3603, but good enough, very low cost and I've run this in water systems for very long periods of time without any clouding issues. This stuff get's my vote for best bang for the buck tubing that doesn't cloud much.
> Feser Tube UV colored - I've used blue and green in this in the larger 1/2" x 3/4" size also for extended periods of time in water/PT nuke systems for 2 years without any problems at all. The smaller thinner stuff didn't have clouding issues, but it did get rather stiff compared to the larger size stuff that remained good even after years of use. Only issue I've had is the dye from one tube can transfer onto other tubes when it's very fresh, but it's good stuff...really like it other than the cost.
> Home Depot PVC - Total crap, clouds up almost instantly and way too stiff to use, it can get you by in a pinch when you are out of tubing, but this stuff is not at all fun to use.
> XSPC UV colored tube - I've used a little bit of this and also didn't have any clouding problems, but it was a bit stiff in durometer for my liking.
> That's all I've used and while I have had clouding issues, I've never seen anything to the extent in these threads where a solid white film has formed. Mine has always been more of a translucent clouding issue and seem to be associated with using coolants other than distilled water/PTnuke type solutions. I'm no chemist, but there's all sorts of possibilities between the tubing and many of the coolants out there considering the number of chemicals present and mixed. Never tried Primochill tubing although I've heard good things about it's flexibility.
> Hope that helps..
> Martin






Thanks Martinm210, for your time and effort to provide us some value information about your experience in your choice and knowledge about Plasticizer Problems you have had in the past, what tube you had had issues with cloud and stiff.

PS: sorry for my typ0 : Invited , you already had quoted my post before me.


----------



## Ceadderman

I think that these vendors are pretty much picking up their product from the same source and could give a rip about the plasticizer issue.

It's not like we can just leave the tubing out of the loop and they know it. So they'll continue to get their tubing from their source and continue to rake in the money cause they know they got us over a barrel. That's the sad reality of it I think.









~Ceadder


----------



## Ganf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I think that these vendors are pretty much picking up their product from the same source and could give a rip about the plasticizer issue.
> It's not like we can just leave the tubing out of the loop and they know it. So they'll continue to get their tubing from their source and continue to rake in the money cause they know they got us over a barrel. That's the sad reality of it I think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


They probably all get it run off in the same factory in China that's set up to produce any mix they want, and they'll keep going with the cheapest mix for the product they want to sell. I'm interested in some of these automotive alternatives people have been posting that're oil and gas resistant though. I'm thinking about swapping half of my solid white tubing out with some clear and trying some dyes in the future, if that ever happens that's what I'll be using. Too many plans on my plate right now to make promises though.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I think that these vendors are pretty much picking up their product from the same source and could give a rip about the plasticizer issue.
> It's not like we can just leave the tubing out of the loop and they know it. So they'll continue to get their tubing from their source and continue to rake in the money cause they know they got us over a barrel. That's the sad reality of it I think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


This ^
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ganf*
> 
> They probably all get it run off in the same factory in China that's set up to produce any mix they want, and they'll keep going with the cheapest mix for the product they want to sell. I'm interested in some of these automotive alternatives people have been posting that're oil and gas resistant though. I'm thinking about swapping half of my solid white tubing out with some clear and trying some dyes in the future, if that ever happens that's what I'll be using. Too many plans on my plate right now to make promises though.


This ^

PS: I'm thinking in stop chasing new tube and going after Ceadderman hes never pass the Beer i will forced to take it using a brutal force


----------



## Warrior1986

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Martinm210*
> 
> Duralene (Saint Gobain) from SWC - Not quite as flexible as the Tygon 3603, but good enough, very low cost and I've run this in water systems for very long periods of time without any clouding issues. This stuff get's my vote for best bang for the buck tubing that doesn't cloud much.


Looks like I've found the tubing I'm going to use. If Martin gives the thumbs up, then that carries some serious weight. Not to mention, HOLY CRAP is this stuff cheap. 69 cents per foot? Putting my order in now...


----------



## Kinru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Looks like I've found the tubing I'm going to use. If Martin gives the thumbs up, then that carries some serious weight. Not to mention, HOLY CRAP is this stuff cheap. 69 cents per foot? Putting my order in now...


Ordered that same stuff 2 days ago after hours of researching online. Seems that this stuff clouds up the slowest and maintains it's clarity the longest. I wouldn't be against paying more for tubing that will never cloud up/ is plasticizer free, but I simply couldn't find it. That said, 69 cents a foot is fantastic









Hopefully I'm happy with it.


----------



## jinsoup

I cant begin to describe how thrilling this Duralene link is making me... after being disappointed by Primochill LRT 1/2x3/4" clear cloud crap....waste of $16.25

But before I do something stupid and buy on impulse again,
anyone have issues with this stuff?

Yellowing, fast evaporation, strength/flexibility problems?


----------



## Warrior1986

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinru*
> 
> Ordered that same stuff 2 days ago after hours of researching online. Seems that this stuff clouds up the slowest and maintains it's clarity the longest. I wouldn't be against paying more for tubing that will never cloud up/ is plasticizer free, but I simply couldn't find it. That said, 69 cents a foot is fantastic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully I'm happy with it.


Be sure to post pictures when you get it, and I'll do the same.


----------



## nawon72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaFi0s0*
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> of it happening to anyone who has pics? I've only seen this one thread, but I don't believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> No pics I came across it somewhere else causing staining.
Click to expand...

Any idea what caused it, and/or a link?


----------



## opt33

Pictures and bend radius of Durelene tubing vs others are here. Looks like it is pretty clear to start, and bend radius with thicker 3/8 5/8 or 1/2 3/4 is decent.


----------



## Martinm210

I like the Duralene for the price, I wouldn't say it stays perfect, but it doesn't do any of that white film stuff.

Out of curiosity, I went and took a picture of my son's system I put together 16months ago using filtered tapwater and PTnuke and Duralene.
Here is a picture of that. I guess there is a little clouding, but not bad for 16months of using tapwater..







Excuse the dust bunnies, they have been running rampant.









Using good clean distilled would probably do even better. Only thing I noticed using it which I've done for lots of testing stuff is the flexibility is a bit more stiff than Tygon 3603 or Feser Tube. My personal favorite would be the UV colored Feser tube if money is no object. I have a couple of pieces of solid blue I've used for all sorts of testing and system builds now that is a couple of years old and it's still in good usable condition.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Martinm210*
> 
> I like the Duralene for the price, I wouldn't say it stays perfect, but it doesn't do any of that white film stuff.
> Out of curiosity, I went and took a picture of my son's system I put together 16months ago using filtered tapwater and PTnuke and Duralene.
> Here is a picture of that. I guess there is a little clouding, but not bad for 16months of using tapwater..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using good clean distilled would probably do even better. Only thing I noticed using it which I've done for lots of testing stuff is the flexibility is a bit more stiff than Tygon 3603 or Feser Tube. My personal favorite would be the UV colored Feser tube if money is no object. I have a couple of pieces of solid blue I've used for all sorts of testing and system builds now that is a couple of years old and it's still in good usable condition.


I know it!..







that you going to come up with something extraordinary like you did now, The Duralene Tubing in the picture above looks very clear looks like 16 hours of using not 16 months old







, to be honest with you i cannot see anything even close to *little clouding* like you mentioned above and the blur is caused by water inside and light reflection.

Do you remember where did you ordered it from?

PS: Thank God I invited you here and you accepted







+rep


----------



## Martinm210

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I know it!..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that you going to come up with something extraordinary like you did now, The Duralene Tubing in the picture above looks very clear looks like 16 hours of using not 16 months old
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , to be honest with you i cannot see anything even close to *little clouding* like you mentioned above and the blur is caused by water inside and light reflection.
> Do you remember where did you ordered it from?
> PS: Thank God I invited you here and you accepted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +rep


Yes, I always order my tubing from Sidewinder.

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/dupvctu7id5o.html

This is the exact stuff I ordered for the photo above which is the 7/16 x 5/8", but I've also has the same good luck with the larger 1/2" x 3/4" stuff.
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/dupvctu1idx3.html

You can't beat this stuff for the price:thumb:


----------



## Ganf

Nice. Looking at the duralene it appears that it's just a slight discoloration, a little greenish, probably coming from that copper waterblock that looks like it's as old as the hills.







But no clouding that I can see. The outside of the tubing is going to dry out over time a little, but Mineral oil would solve that.


----------



## Martinm210

It's an old smoking 9800GT baby! and yeah, old EK copper full cover block/card that was originally Skinnee's, still working just fine though...lol


----------



## Ganf

In that case, that tubing is golden. Tap water will do that to copper almost every time.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Martinm210*
> 
> Yes, I always order my tubing from Sidewinder.
> http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/dupvctu7id5o.html
> This is the exact stuff I ordered for the photo above which is the 7/16 x 5/8", but I've also has the same good luck with the larger 1/2" x 3/4" stuff.
> http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/dupvctu1idx3.html
> You can't beat this stuff for the price:thumb:


I has always ordered my stuff from Gary ( Sidewindercomputers.com ) I have had spoken with him two or tree times over the phone just to make some changes in my orders and he's was very professional the way he handled the changes and they way he explained.







. by the way the size the tubing you mentioned above is the size i always use, by next week my waterblock going to arrive and i will love to change my tubes before i install my new blocks, i can't wait any long to put my FTW's under water but I'm sure the problem about the *Plasticizer* and this *White Film* inside the tube i will going to hold few days more till i put my hand's on new tubing, by doing that I'll going to have some extra time to take all my loop apart and do a very good maintenance before i put everything back together.


----------



## Warrior1986

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Martinm210*
> 
> I like the Duralene for the price, I wouldn't say it stays perfect, but it doesn't do any of that white film stuff.
> Out of curiosity, I went and took a picture of my son's system I put together 16months ago using filtered tapwater and PTnuke and Duralene.
> Here is a picture of that. I guess there is a little clouding, but not bad for 16months of using tapwater..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excuse the dust bunnies, they have been running rampant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using good clean distilled would probably do even better. Only thing I noticed using it which I've done for lots of testing stuff is the flexibility is a bit more stiff than Tygon 3603 or Feser Tube. My personal favorite would be the UV colored Feser tube if money is no object. I have a couple of pieces of solid blue I've used for all sorts of testing and system builds now that is a couple of years old and it's still in good usable condition.


Holy crap, thank god for Martin. If that's what it looks like after 16 MONTHS and on regular tapwater, then this is the only tubing anyone should buy. I'm going to stock up on it, lest god forbid they stop making it or they change something in the plastic formula and it starts to plasticize like all the other worthless crap put out by Primochill, Tygon, Masterkleer, etc etc.


----------



## solara2xb

Thanks for the links.. Look like I found my next set of tubing...


----------



## Kinru

Compared to the nightmarish results of Tygon 3603 and primochill that stuff looks great. I can see some clouding, but with such cheap stuff I have no qualms about replacing it once a year. I'm also guessing that using distilled water will have better results.

My package should come at some point this week. I'll post some pics of it if I get a chance.


----------



## Wild Wally

Just a thought. As an engineer who has worked in the plastics business I can tell you that most plastic tubing contains plasticizer of varing amounts and properties depending on the desired end use. There are several plastics on the market which don't use plasticizers but I don't know how suitable they would be for water cooling. One of these, which is made in a food grade is called PEBAX. It is already used in toothbrushes and other applications needing flexibility. It might be worth seeing if it is extruded into tubing.

WW


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wild Wally*
> 
> Just a thought. As an engineer who has worked in the plastics business I can tell you that most plastic tubing contains plasticizer of varing amounts and properties depending on the desired end use. There are several plastics on the market which don't use plasticizers but I don't know how suitable they would be for water cooling. One of these, which is made in a food grade is called PEBAX. It is already used in toothbrushes and other applications needing flexibility. It might be worth seeing if it is extruded into tubing.
> WW


Not that plasticizer is a bad thing it's not supposed to breakdown to early in it's life, maybe after 5 years but not after only 3 weeks. Seems like all manufacturers are desperately trying to cut cost regardless of how we feel about it. The water cooling of computers and PC hardware is becoming a pain in the you know what, nickel plating failure, plasticizer problems and I believe many more unfavorable changes are headed our way!

Bitspower has already made some unfavorable changes to their process which will have it's own thread once confirmed! At this rate water cooling is getting to be more of a problem everyday, if it continues I will dump water cooling altogether to avoid all of this crap!!


----------



## wermad

The thing a lot of people are over looking is that this didn't happen so quickly back in 2011 or before that. I ran primochill clear in the fall of 2011 and I sold it in pristine condition. I did a multitude of tests with Mayhem's dyes and this never happen. Come 2012 and this thing just exploded. So, 18 month old tube is probably in good shape because of the hard fact it was made well before this year.

I'm breaking down my loop tonight in preparation for a platform swap (downgrade) and removing my leaky reservoir (rma time). I'll inspect this new tube since its been about two weeks now


----------



## Sidewinder_Computers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wild Wally*
> 
> Just a thought. As an engineer who has worked in the plastics business I can tell you that most plastic tubing contains plasticizer of varing amounts and properties depending on the desired end use. There are several plastics on the market which don't use plasticizers but I don't know how suitable they would be for water cooling. One of these, which is made in a food grade is called PEBAX. It is already used in toothbrushes and other applications needing flexibility. It might be worth seeing if it is extruded into tubing.
> WW


This is what I have been told by my supplier also. Pretty much everything includes it unless it is specifically advertised to be Plasticizer free.
There are two parts that I know of now that Tygon makes without Plasticizer. One is Tygon 2001, i.e. AE300038 and the other is the new Tygon E-1000.
E-1000 is the same as Tygon R-1000 ultra-soft, but E-1000 has had a plasticizer chemical pulled out of the manufacturing process.

My experience FWIW, I've seen crap in loops that I suspected came out of Thermochill rads when using Durelene, and I've had loops with R3400 and R3603 be crap-free after two years. It varies from one loop to the next. Durelene / Vincon / Masterclear is all made by Saint Gobain in Akron Ohio, the same folks that bring you Tygon.


----------



## Wild Wally

Plasticizers is nothing special...it's just a solvent that makes the polymer more flexible and easy to process. What may be happening is the materials may be of lower quality causing the plasticizer to volatilize prematurely leaving the hose less flexible and more prone to cracking. UV radiation will also degrade polymers by attacking the chemical bonds which provide stiffness.

While not universally true I have noticed some products sourced from mainland China are not of the same quality as those produced elsewhere. Quality control tends to be spotty in Chinese industry with lower grade materials sometimes being substituted.

WW


----------



## Wild Wally

Oh, by the way, I wish I had wandered on to this thread some time ago. There's a lot of useful information here. The pictures are great too.









WW


----------



## joesaiditstrue

bought some pH/TH/TA/CYA test strips at walmart

my pH level is ~6.5-6.8 which is on the low end. I haven't chopped up any of my tubing to test for plasticizer issues but Mayhem's said higher pH could trigger this right? so try to keep a lower pH?

All I'm using is 1 Kill Coil and Pure Distilled water (~1.7 L of water)


----------



## aqualad

Not to muddy the water anymore, but I just setup a single loop after spending hours cleaning all my parts and rad with semi hot water and then 1 gallon of distilled water all new stuff.
rad was clean no dirt of discoloration. the tubing I used was primochill from FPC. The most messd up part is All this happened in less than 15 hrs. So know what do I do...









BTW I forget to mention I just used distilled water nothing else since I was just doing initial leak test


----------



## squick3n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aqualad*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/image/id/2493668/width/600/height/359[UL] Not to muddy the water anymore, but I just setup a single loop after spending hours cleaning all my parts and rad with semi hot water and then 1 gallon of distilled water all new stuff. rad was clean no dirt of discoloration. the tubing I used was primochill from FPC. The most *******ed up part is All this happened in less than 15 hrs. So know what do I do... BTW I forget to mention I just used distilled water nothing else since I was just doing initial leak test[/URL][/QUOTE]
> 
> I think at this point Primochill is no longer an option. For color it's either dyes or LEDs


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aqualad*
> 
> 
> Not to muddy the water anymore, but I just setup a single loop after spending hours cleaning all my parts and rad with semi hot water and then 1 gallon of distilled water all new stuff.
> rad was clean no dirt of discoloration. the tubing I used was primochill from FPC. The most messed up part is All this happened in less than 15 hrs. So know what do I do...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW I forget to mention I just used distilled water nothing else since I was just doing initial leak test

















not good really not good 15 hours is record time Primochill just when down to the hole. too bad but it is truth, I'm feel bad for you bud because we all have the same issues. but the option is this one here Duralene Tubing from sidewindercomputers.com


----------



## aqualad

I'm still stuck here with over 6-7 feet, and from all that Ive been reading its like these manufactures/distributes are just turning a blind eye to whole fiasco.
This is my first WC setup and it has not been a pleasant ride so far hopefully your suggestion will yield better results for me.

Thanks for the help


----------



## wermad

i just got done draining my loop. and sadly this new primochill is plasticizing







. I've only ran distilled but the color is solid enough that the whitish/grayish film doesn't affect appearance.


----------



## nawon72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *joesaiditstrue*
> 
> bought some pH/TH/TA/CYA test strips at walmart
> 
> my pH level is ~6.5-6.8 which is on the low end. I haven't chopped up any of my tubing to test for plasticizer issues but Mayhem's said higher pH could trigger this right? so try to keep a lower pH?
> 
> All I'm using is 1 Kill Coil and Pure Distilled water (~1.7 L of water)


Keep your pH above 7.0 (alkaline) if you want to minimize corrosion, as more hydrogen ions (lower pH) promotes oxidation. You should aim for a pH of 8-10 except if there is aluminum in the loop, in which case keep it below 8.5. However, your pH is typical of distilled water.

Info from here


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aqualad*
> 
> 
> Not to muddy the water anymore, but I just setup a single loop after spending hours cleaning all my parts and rad with semi hot water and then 1 gallon of distilled water all new stuff.
> rad was clean no dirt of discoloration. the tubing I used was primochill from FPC. The most messed up part is All this happened in less than 15 hrs. So know what do I do...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW I forget to mention I just used distilled water nothing else since I was just doing initial leak test


Wow 15 hours, Primochill doesn't really care if they go out of business, they probably already have and we just don't know it yet!


----------



## joesaiditstrue

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> Keep your pH above 7.0 (alkaline) if you want to minimize corrosion, as more hydrogen ions (lower pH) promotes oxidation. You should aim for a pH of 8-10 except if there is aluminum in the loop, in which case keep it below 8.5. However, your pH is typical of distilled water.
> 
> Info from here


Is Bleach safe if you're using nickel plated copper blocks? If so, I might add a teaspoon to my loop


----------



## nawon72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *joesaiditstrue*
> Is Bleach safe if you're using nickel plated copper blocks? If so, I might add a teaspoon to my loop


I didn't know, so I Googled it. It's definitely not a good idea as it will rapidly corrode copper, and I believe it can be use to strip nickel plating. I would avoid using even a tea spoon of it just to be safe, and look for alternatives to increase the pH of your loop.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *joesaiditstrue*
> 
> bought some pH/TH/TA/CYA test strips at walmart
> my pH level is ~6.5-6.8 which is on the low end. I haven't chopped up any of my tubing to test for plasticizer issues but Mayhem's said higher pH could trigger this right? so try to keep a lower pH?
> All I'm using is 1 Kill Coil and Pure Distilled water (~1.7 L of water)


i always have used kill Coil in my loop but sadly its wont prevent plasticizer.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squick3n*
> 
> I think at this point Primochill is no longer an option. For color it's either dyes or LEDs


for long time
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aqualad*
> 
> I'm still stuck here with over 6-7 feet, and from all that Ive been reading its like these manufactures/distributes are just turning a blind eye to whole fiasco.
> This is my first WC setup and it has not been a pleasant ride so far hopefully your suggestion will yield better results for me.
> Thanks for the help


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> i just got done draining my loop. and sadly this new primochill is plasticizing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I've only ran distilled but the color is solid enough that the whitish/grayish film doesn't affect appearance.










time to find another tubing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> Keep your pH above 7.0 (alkaline) if you want to minimize corrosion, as more hydrogen ions (lower pH) promotes oxidation. You should aim for a pH of 8-10 except if there is aluminum in the loop, in which case keep it below 8.5. However, your pH is typical of distilled water.
> Info from here


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> I didn't know, so I Googled it. It's definitely not a good idea as it will rapidly corrode copper, and I believe it can be use to strip nickel plating. I would avoid using even a tea spoon of it just to be safe, and look for alternatives to increase the pH of your loop.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Wow 15 hours, Primochill doesn't really care if they go out of business, they probably already have and we just don't know it yet!


you may be right
Not to mention but after i seen they website again still looks so poor to me, i don't want to start any war and trolling and pointing who has done bad things with us ( consumers ), look who are they partners.









Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







I just ordered this tubing last for my both loop
Durelene PVC tubing 7/16in. ID 5/8in. OD by Saint-Gobain

For the next few days I'll be doing some tests with those tubing to see how fast the Tygon R-3603 can cloud and how Durelene can hold this test and i will post back.

Durelene PVC tubing - tap water
Durelene PVC tubing - Distilled Water
Durelene PVC tubing - Distilled Water + Mayhems - Red Dye
Tygon R-3603 - tap water
Tygon R-3603 - Distilled Water
Tygon R-3603 - Distilled Water + Mayhems - Red Dye


----------



## cpachris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squick3n*
> 
> I think at this point Primochill is no longer an option. For color it's either dyes or LEDs


Has anyone in this thread tried dyeing your clear tubing, instead of buying colored tubing or adding dye to your water? Like this.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cpachris*
> 
> Has anyone in this thread tried dyeing your clear tubing, instead of buying colored tubing or adding dye to your water? Like this.


Plausible, but why would you go through all that trouble? Plus, you run the risk that it will stain the internals of your loop. Keep it simple and just go with colored tube. This plasticizing issue has not affected a loop's performance, just looks when using clear tube.


----------



## Ganf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cpachris*
> 
> Has anyone in this thread tried dyeing your clear tubing, instead of buying colored tubing or adding dye to your water? Like this.


I would say it's the way to go, since if people begin posting their results consistently we'll soon have a database that will allow people to get any color they want. I'm curious to see which tubings take dye better than the rest too.


----------



## jinsoup

sorry double post


----------



## jinsoup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Be sure to post pictures when you get it, and I'll do the same.


kick ass i just graduated from UIUC.
+1 rep for going to awesome school
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *opt33*
> 
> Pictures and bend radius of Durelene tubing vs others are here. Looks like it is pretty clear to start, and bend radius with thicker 3/8 5/8 or 1/2 3/4 is decent.


Thanks for the input on the Duralene, and awesome article link +1 for helpfulness.

I'm on two koolance blocks so shouldn't have any green, except for the radiator is brass/copper...
it's going to be a long, long part-flushing weekend.. BLEH.


----------



## jinsoup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Martinm210*
> 
> Yes, I always order my tubing from Sidewinder.
> http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/dupvctu7id5o.html
> This is the exact stuff I ordered for the photo above which is the 7/16 x 5/8", but I've also has the same good luck with the larger 1/2" x 3/4" stuff.
> http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/dupvctu1idx3.html
> You can't beat this stuff for the price:thumb:


Not to mention, the 1/2" x 3/4" is only SIXTY NINE CENTS per foot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I just got my 20 feet of Duralene + PT Nuke (CuSO4)

It is quite rigid compared to PrimoChill LRT, but so clear and not a fingerprint magnet.


----------



## Capt Proton

Some input based on actual experience. I shall state up front that I shall have to eat some crow in providing the info.

Tubing is Primochill LRT UV Blue purchased in Jab 12.

After 3 months in my dual loop system.

Loop 1 that uses distilled plus PT Nuke (probably too much). Heavy clouding. No pics as I have not drained the loop. I can tell from the outer appearance and by shining a light through it.

Loop 2, Distilled mixed 3:1 with Zalman G100. If there is any clouding, it is not discernible. Light shines through clearly.


----------



## skyn3t

I will going to receive my Durelene clear tubing 7/16x5/8 today so I will have a long week in other to replace and do some test and fix z bit of my cable I may end up change some of my fittings in my new routing loop but I had drainedy loop last night and guess what the TYGON in my loop looks worse I didn't know if I laugh or crying about this clouding crap plasticity %&%% it is all f&%$%up i will post some pictures by today or tomorrow and l will try to take some natural pictures instead using flash so this way you guys will see how worse it is
Thank God all my parts are clean and neat no sign of anything i did a major clean up yesterday with warn water with pt nuck and i did ran about a gallon 1 1/2 of distilled water.


----------



## anubis1127

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I will going to receive my Durelene clear tubing 7/16x5/8 today so I will have a long week in other to replace and do some test and fix z bit of my cable I may end up change some of my fittings in my new routing loop but I had drainedy loop last night and guess what the TYGON in my loop looks worse I didn't know if I laugh or crying about this clouding crap plasticity %&%% it is all f&%$%up i will post some pictures by today or tomorrow and l will try to take some natural pictures instead using flash so this way you guys will see how worse it is
> Thank God all my parts are clean and neat no sign of anything i did a major clean up yesterday with warn water with pt nuck and i did ran about a 1 1/2 of distilled water.


I may have to order some of that Duralene if you have good results with it. I am using some primochill 3/8" ID clear tubing, well it was clear for about 4 hours, lol. I traded for another h20 loop, and it includes some black 7/16" ID tubing, so at least I won't see the issue, I guess.

I don't understand what primochill did to their tubing. I had been using it last year with no problems, but the last three retail packs I've purchased have been junk.


----------



## lowfat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cpachris*
> 
> Has anyone in this thread tried dyeing your clear tubing, instead of buying colored tubing or adding dye to your water? Like this.


I have some Tygon B-44-3 that I have dyed black. It looks fantastic. But I haven't used it yet.


----------



## Antjel

Hey guys,

I have noticed in the first 30 pages or so (trying to catch up whoah this is big one) of this thread that everyone is using distilled water and no premix coolant. I know the usual rule of thumb is you can't go wrong with distilled and killcoil but I was just curious if anyone has been experiencing the advanced plasticizer rate with a premix? The reason why it's got my curiosity is a premix may be ph balanced correctly and rule out the chance it's your brand of distilled water etc or another localized element causing the issue...?

Interested to hear your ideas!

Oh and I still think the tubing shouldn't do it but just trying to find a commonality among so many diverse systems.

Cheers,
Antjel


----------



## squick3n

I think the PT nuke may be playing a role, though my loop had both Masterkleer and Primochill, and the Masterkleer is still clear


----------



## skyn3t

Hey guys I just received my Durelene Tubing today and i already changed all the tubing in my loop







, so I'm preparing everything with a lot pictures and i will review the Durelene Tubing ( i think for this review i will open a new Thread ( I'm thinking not sure yet ) but all the information that i got in my hands I will going to post here today or tomorrow. i just want to look out for everyone. see you guys in a bit


----------



## Ceadderman

My PrimoChill other than the green patina from my Copper CPU block doesn't look to have any issues whatsoever. Although I'll know more when I drain to temporarily replace 1100T so I can lapp it.









~Ceadder


----------



## skyn3t

Hello Guys here is my Feedback to "Plasticizer Problems / Discussion / Gallery"
After a lot reading, pictures and seeing how people are suffering about Plasticizer and Cloud white film inside the tubing, I have put together all my stuff that I have in hands for you guys.

PS: sorry for my english since it is my third spoken language sometimes I change the words order or eat some words









*Tygon R-3603 Before any water in the loop day 1, Tygon R-3603 its very clear tubing but compared with Durelene Tygon is kind off yellowish color*



Tygon R-3603 After 4 Months in the loop with Distilled Water + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye. about 3 weeks ago I had drained my loop, changed the Distilled Water + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye and with Pure Distilled Water.
As you can see the white film inside the tubing is pure bad.





*Tygon R-3603 with Distilled Water + kill coill very clear tubing.*



At the top - Tygon R-3603 New Tubing added on 6/13/2012
At the bottom - Tygon R-3603 after 4 months with Distilled water and Mayhems Red Dye





*Koolance Res Crystal Clear since Day 1*. Still looks clear and shiny even after the clouded tubing with Distilled water + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye after 4 months nothing found in my blocks, rad and res.





*Durelene PVC tubing 7/16in. ID 5/8in. OD by Saint-Gobain* First bath with Distilled warm water to clean the dust inside and ready to
receive the final run. Compared with Tygon R-3603 the flexibility is not that much in real world.In my first experience with Durelene was very good, even its natural clear color is very bright compared with Tygon R-3603, Tygon R 3603 and It is kind of yellowish color.

*Spec:

Physical Properties*

ENGLISH UNITS METRIC UNITS ASTM TEST METHOD
Durometer Hardness
Shore A, 15s 55 55 D2240-75
Tensile Strength 1650 PSI 116 kg/cm³ D638-76
Ultimate Elongation 450% 450% D638-76
Tensile Set 107% 107% D412-75
Abrasion Resistance,
Wear Factor
(mg lost/1000 cycles)
CS-17 wheel 5.6 5.6 D1044-76
Compression Set
(5)Constant Deflection
(5)Constant Load % 61%
47% 61%
47% D395-69
D395-69
Brittle Temperature -58ºF -50ºF D746-73
Specific Gravity 1.18 1.18 D792-66
Water Absorption, % 0.24 % 0.24 % D570-63
Product Characteristics

Maximum Recommended Operating Temperature 165ºF (74ºC)
Color - Clear
Odor - Slight
Taste - None
Toxicity - Non-Toxic
Aging Characteristics - Non-oxidizing
Chemical Resistance

Strong Acids - Good
Weak Acids - Good
Strong Alkalies - Good
Weak Alkalies - Good
Organic Solvents - Poor
All tests conducted at room temperatures







It does looks sharp












*Durelene PVC tubing 7/16in. ID 5/8in. OD by Saint-Gobain Show Off*

Here is the package i received today in the mail a Big Box with 27" of Durelene Clear tubing I already had cut all the tubing for my RiG i do have less tubing inside this box. it does look very clear no yellowish like Tygon R-3603









*Here is the comparison chart tubing. Tubing in order*
1 - Durelene
2 - Tygon R-3603 ( Virgin )
3 - Tygon R-3603 after 4 months with Distilled water + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye



































*Since i had work of my A$$ yesterday i did forgot to add those pictures* as the result of Distilled Water + kill coil + mayhems dye red, this is the nast part









]Here is a Tygon R-3603 before and after with distilled water + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye.

Mayhems Red Dye - won't crystalize inside the Loop once is mixed it won't separate from water
i had a half gallon distilled water with Mayhems Red Dye seal for 4 months sit in the same shelf collection dust
the color never faded no residues in the bottom found. half gallon was cut in half to make sure it was clear and no
cloud stuff inside i had no kill coil inside the gallon and it was Red rich clean distilled water.









*Black Hawk Down Running New Clear Durelene Tubing Distilled water + kill coil*







*By tomorrow 6/15/2012 i will have 3 container One with Tap Water*, Pure Distilled Water and Contaminated water distilled water from my old loop with tree peace's of tubing inside on each container + kill coil. I like to see how long they can cloud and film. each day in the morning i will going to shake each container I'm going to leave it by my window this way it can warm a bit in simulation of warm water in the loop. i just need to find 3 peace of nickel plate to drop inside of each container.

1- container Tap water - Contaminated Tygon tubing , clean Tygon Tubing and Clean Durelene Tubing

2 - container Distilled Water - clean Tygon Tubing and Clean Durelene Tubing + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye

3 - container Distilled Water - clean Tygon Tubing and Clean Durelene Tubing + kill coil only.

if you guys have any input just drop it below









Thanks for Martinm210 for give us a great feedback about Durelene tubing
Martinm210 Post. and the OP ramkatral for start this thread.


----------



## Fantomau

I'd be interested to know the results of Durelene PVC tubing - Distilled Water + Mayhems - Red Dye

What about their X1 Blood Red Concentrate?


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fantomau*
> 
> I'd be interested to know the results of Durelene PVC tubing - Distilled Water + Mayhems - Red Dye
> What about their X1 Blood Red Concentrate?


I don't have the Mayhems X1 Blood Red in hands but if anyone has it and if want donate some drops for test purpose only will be very welcome.


----------



## Fantomau

Neither do i, So I'd be interested in the red mayhems dye results.


----------



## skyn3t

since i had work of my A$$ yesterday i did forgot to add those pictures as the result of Distilled Water + kill coil + mayhems dye red, this is the nast part









Here is a Tygon R-3603 before and after with distilled water + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye.

Mayhems Red Dye - won't crystalize inside the Loop once is mixed it won't separate from water
i had a half gallon distilled water with Mayhems Red Dye seal for 4 months sit in the same shelf collection dust
the color never faded no residues in the bottom found. half gallon was cut in half to make sure it was clear and no
cloud stuff inside i had no kill coil inside the gallon and it was Red rich clean distilled water.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!













Post 796 Updated "Plasticizer Problems / Discussion / Gallery"


----------



## squick3n

I'll definitely be watching what you are doing there, and greatly appreciate it. I'm going to rebuild my loop in a couple weeks and will use only Masterkleer, silver, and no PT Nuke. Still debating on whether to use dyes. Still can't really get a handle on if this Mayhems stuff is really bad or really good. Seems to be a divisive product


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> since i had work of my A$$ yesterday i did forgot to add those pictures as the result of Distilled Water + kill coil + mayhems dye red, this is the nast part
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a Tygon R-3603 before and after with distilled water + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye.
> 
> Mayhems Red Dye - won't crystalize inside the Loop once is mixed it won't separate from water
> i had a half gallon distilled water with Mayhems Red Dye seal for 4 months sit in the same shelf collection dust
> the color never faded no residues in the bottom found. half gallon was cut in half to make sure it was clear and no
> cloud stuff inside i had no kill coil inside the gallon and it was Red rich clean distilled water.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Post 796 Updated "Plasticizer Problems / Discussion / Gallery"












Yeesh that's bad.









~Ceadder


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> since i had work of my A$$ yesterday i did forgot to add those pictures as the result of Distilled Water + kill coil + mayhems dye red, this is the nast part
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a Tygon R-3603 before and after with distilled water + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye.
> 
> Mayhems Red Dye - won't crystalize inside the Loop once is mixed it won't separate from water
> i had a half gallon distilled water with Mayhems Red Dye seal for 4 months sit in the same shelf collection dust
> the color never faded no residues in the bottom found. half gallon was cut in half to make sure it was clear and no
> cloud stuff inside i had no kill coil inside the gallon and it was Red rich clean distilled water.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Post 796 Updated "Plasticizer Problems / Discussion / Gallery"


I will back up what you said about their dye, here is hoping it isn't reacting with the tubing some how.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squick3n*
> 
> I'll definitely be watching what you are doing there, and greatly appreciate it. I'm going to rebuild my loop in a couple weeks and will use only Masterkleer, silver, and no PT Nuke. Still debating on whether to use dyes. Still can't really get a handle on if this *Mayhems stuff is really bad or really good*. Seems to be a divisive product


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeesh that's bad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


~Ceadder







yes it is bad








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> I will back up what you said about their dye, here is hoping it isn't reacting with the tubing some how.


The reason I'm using the Dye in testing is just to make sure about the reacting of the cloud film in the tubing and see how long its going to take to build up.I do have the same tubing ( Tygon R3603 only with kill coil + distilled water they may cloud for sure but question is ( how long it will take ? If it going to cloud bad like in my first experience so same tubing Durelene , Tygon in 2 and 3 run testing so 1 run - distilled + kill coil + Dye, 2 run - only distilled + kill coil,m 3 run all those tubing in tap water. my hope that is no the Mayhems like squick3n mentioned in the first quoted post.


----------



## GoodInk

Bottle on the left is what came out of my loop after about 2 months of use, the bottle on the right about 6 months old sitting under my sink with way more dye than what was in my loop.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Bottle on the left is what came out of my loop after about 2 months of use, the bottle on the right about 6 months old sitting under my sink with way more dye than what was in my loop.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


what Dye did you used in the both bottle?


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Bottle on the left is what came out of my loop after about 2 months of use, the bottle on the right about 6 months old sitting under my sink with way more dye than what was in my loop.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what Dye did you used in the both bottle?
Click to expand...

Mayhem's, I made the blood red mix my self because I like it a little darker than what the sell in the premix. Plus now I have red and blue dyes


----------



## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Mayhem's, I made the blood red mix my self because I like it a little darker than what the sell in the premix. Plus now I have red and blue dyes


I have most of a bottle of Purple Mayhem's dye left you can have if you'd like.


----------



## squick3n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Mayhem's, I made the blood red mix my self because I like it a little darker than what the sell in the premix. Plus now I have red and blue dyes


What is the pink stuff in the left bottle? Is that plasticizer mixed with dye?


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superericla*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Mayhem's, I made the blood red mix my self because I like it a little darker than what the sell in the premix. Plus now I have red and blue dyes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have most of a bottle of Purple Mayhem's dye left you can have if you'd like.
Click to expand...

I'll pass, I don't see me every using purple for myself.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squick3n*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Mayhem's, I made the blood red mix my self because I like it a little darker than what the sell in the premix. Plus now I have red and blue dyes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the pink stuff in the left bottle? Is that plasticizer mixed with dye?
Click to expand...

Long story short, yes. I forgot to shut off my PC before I left for 30 days and I came home to that.


----------



## skyn3t

"Plasticizer Problems / Discussion / Gallery"

Like i promised the testing and here we are with all I could put together but if you guys have any other input to mix this stuff just let me know. All bottle has a peace of kill coil in it and some with Distilled and others with tap water and off course Mayhems Red Dye. All bottles are labeled and i will going to set all the bottle in my window bay this way it will emulate a bit of warm water and one more thing the water in the bottle are half inch below the top limit so air inside like our reservoir. Each day i will shake it a bit just to move things inside.







*Distilled Water + Kill coil + Durelene*
Let's see how strong Durelene PVC tubing is









Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







*Distilled Water + Kill coil + Tygon R-3603*


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







*Distilled Water + Kill coil + Tygon R-3603 + Durelene*
The objective here is how they going to affect each other and how they to cloud if they cloud and what tubing is going to cloud first!?...


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







*Distilled Water + Kill coil + Tygon R-3603 + Durelene + Mayhems Red Dye*
Now this objective here I added the Mayhems Red Dye. How they going to affect each other and how they to cloud if they cloud and what tubing is going to cloud first!?...


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







*Distilled Water + Kill coil + Tygon R-3603 + Durelene + Tygon R3603 Infected







*
This one here will be very interesting. Cloud stuff? they can transfer the cloud film to another tubing? how they affect water? how the Durelene going to react with this infected tubing ? Is durelene going to get infected and cloud film like Tygon R3603? !!!???..... we will see.









Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






*Distilled Water + Kill coil + Tygon R-3603 + Durelene + Tygon R3603 Infected + Mayhems







*
Mayhems added in here


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







*Tap Water + Kill coil + Tygon R-3603 + Durelene*
Is tap water bad? how bad? how long it will last without problems? its is going to cloud? so many question we have and many question with no right answer !!!!.... below i just added the Mayhems Red Dye.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Tap Water + Kill coil + Tygon R-3603 + Durelene + Tygon R3603 Infected + Mayhems













Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







I need to get some more tubing so i can continue the testing i will try to put my hands on Primochill Tubing by next week and do the same tests. Primochill? or get another brand? because we all know all the Primochill batch are bad at least its looks bad now. all updates will be once week with pictures to see how it goes. I will need more input for you guys and help to find a solution for all of us. thanks for reading this and good lucky







we all going to need.


----------



## GoodInk

I think some likes red









I just thought of something and I'm not sure if it would apply to the tubing you have in the test. But I remember reading once about how Primochill tubing has a layer on the inside of the tubing that is suppose to keep the plasticizer from coming through the tubing. Do you know if any of the tubing you are using is made the same way? If it was, it may pull it from the outside of the tubing before the inside of it.


----------



## Ganf

Just a thought, skyn3t, but I think flowing water is going to be a big factor. Nobody has reported plasticizer on the outside of the tubing yet, so contact with water has to be a key component. If the water is moving, you have much, much more contact over time than if it is stagnant.

I may be wrong, I may just be a ditz, but I think it's going to take much, much longer to see the results of those tests if the water is just sitting there.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ganf*
> 
> Just a thought, skyn3t, but I think flowing water is going to be a big factor. *Nobody has reported plasticizer on the outside of the tubing yet*, so contact with water has to be a key component. If the water is moving, you have much, much more contact over time than if it is stagnant.
> 
> I may be wrong, I may just be a ditz, but I think it's going to take much, much longer to see the results of those tests if the water is just sitting there.


I think this is because we all like to keep the water on the inside of our tubing. I've thought about the flow thing to, if this is more of a problem in low flow or high flow setups. I know I like to keep my systems quiet so I have low flow loops.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> I think some likes red
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just thought of something and I'm not sure if it would apply to the tubing you have in the test. But I remember reading once about how Primochill tubing has a layer on the inside of the tubing that is suppose to keep the plasticizer from coming through the tubing. Do you know if any of the tubing you are using is made the same way? If it was, it may pull it from the outside of the tubing before the inside of it.


As far i had read all Tygon R3603 tubing spec's i could not find any specification about this special layer inside the tubing or even outside, it makes me thinking the Tygon - R3603 is made equal inside out.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ganf*
> 
> Just a thought, skyn3t, but I think flowing water is going to be a big factor. Nobody has reported plasticizer on the outside of the tubing yet, so contact with water has to be a key component. If the water is moving, you have much, much more contact over time than if it is stagnant.
> I may be wrong, I may just be a ditz, but I think it's going to take much, much longer to see the results of those tests if the water is just sitting there.


You may be right i had the same thought over the sitting water instead a movement water.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> I think this is because we all like to keep the water on the inside of our tubing. I've thought about the flow thing to, if this is more of a problem in low flow or high flow setups. I know I like to keep my systems quiet so I have low flow loops.


I have some new parts sitting around here for about a month







for my new htpc project. I may be using it for testing whatcha you guys think? i just need to supply a 12v to pump and done i can build a loop with 2 different tubing Tygon-R3603 and Durelene just for testing. here is the part list that is sitting in my shelf, I may end up doing a small loop for this testing.

XSPC EX360 Triple 120mm Copper / Brass Radiator
XSPC RayStorm CPU WaterBlock
MCP350 Pump
EK-MultiOption RES X2 - 250 Basic
BitsPower Fittings


----------



## Warrior1986

I might be a guinea pig for another solution for the plasticizer problem besides the Duralene. Just got off the phone with someone and have put in an order for a brand new (literally, it's only been out for about a week or so) tubing from Tygon. It's a replacement for R1000 and it's called E1000. However, the kicker is that it's plasticizer free and he said that it's actually a bit clearer than the Duralene and is much lower durometer than the Tygon 2001 plasticizer-free tubing. In short, this could be the tubing of our dreams. I'll snap some pics of the tubing when it comes in.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> I might be a guinea pig for another solution for the plasticizer problem besides the Duralene. Just got off the phone with someone and have put in an order for a brand new (literally, it's only been out for about a week or so) tubing from Tygon. It's a replacement for R1000 and it's called E1000. However, the kicker is that it's plasticizer free and he said that it's actually a bit clearer than the Duralene and is much lower durometer than the Tygon 2001 plasticizer-free tubing. In short, this could be the tubing of our dreams. I'll snap some pics of the tubing when it comes in.


Good Call Warrior1986, in the mead time i will continue to work in my tubing testing and just to you guys know the Durelene still going good with Distilled + kill coil only tubing looks the same since day one. i will snap some pics later one.


----------



## Mayhem

@skyn3t please send me a PM with you address and we will supply you with any products you need for your tests free ofc.

Weve run a few tests our selfs but just for our selfs and what you posted its very good. So if you need any thing we make inc biocide , kill coils, dyes, premix just let us know and we will help you in your testing.

Mick


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mayhem*
> 
> @skyn3t please send me a PM with you address and we will supply you with any products you need for your tests free ofc.
> Weve run a few tests our selfs but just for our selfs and what you posted its very good. So if you need any thing we make inc biocide , kill coils, dyes, premix just let us know and we will help you in your testing.
> Mick


Hey Mick, thanks for stopping by in our thread







. I will be putting a new loop this weekend for testing purpose. I appreciate the help and
for the supplied material.

PM sent


----------



## Ceadderman

Mayhem is the shiz! I may not find dye to be my cup'o tea but ya gotta love and respect a manufacturer/vendor who supports the community they make their living through. Simply awesome.









~Ceadder


----------



## 7evenHeaven

I'm sorry to ask but is the plasticizers will in anyway cause the loop to fail or affect the performance of the loop or not?
If it's not harmful then I'll just get a pre-colored tube.


----------



## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7evenHeaven*
> 
> I'm sorry to ask but is the plasticizers will in anyway cause the loop to fail or affect the performance of the loop or not?
> If it's not harmful then I'll just get a pre-colored tube.


It's pretty much just an aesthetic issue.


----------



## 7evenHeaven

Well in that case, why don't people just go with color-ed tubing


----------



## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7evenHeaven*
> 
> Well in that case, why don't people just go with color-ed tubing


Some people prefer the look of clear tubing. Personally, I think clear tubing with Mayhem's Pastel coolant looks great.


----------



## Marcusk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7evenHeaven*
> 
> Well in that case, why don't people just go with color-ed tubing


Maybe because we don't wan't colored tubing?


----------



## 7evenHeaven

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superericla*
> 
> Some people prefer the look of clear tubing. Personally, I think clear tubing with Mayhem's Pastel coolant looks great.


I'm actually pretty new with WC and I just purchased a RX240 kit for my CPU and a E240 rad for my GPU.
Nothing special expect for the Raystorm CPU & Universal GPU block (trying to save some money here as selling 2nd hand full block is pretty hard in my country) and with some compression fittings.

I would like to ask, won't the plasticizers get stuck around the O ring of the water blocks?
And should I just top-up the water occasionally or drain the system once for a long while and refill it again?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Mayhem

@skyn3t every thing is on its way to you. Weve send pastel, X1, all our dyes, biocide and kill coil

http://www.specialtech.co.uk are supporting this as well by providing us with a samples of all the primochill range (tubing) they hold as well as tygon for testing at our end. Weve have stred testing Clearflex, Masterclear, XSPC and Thermochill all ready.

This will take us a little time to test our self as we have a lot going on atm but ill all so report any thing we find on here too.


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mayhem*
> 
> @skyn3t every thing is on its way to you. Weve send pastel, X1, all our dyes, biocide and kill coil
> http://www.specialtech.co.uk are supporting this as well by providing us with a samples of all the primochill range (tubing) they hold as well as tygon for testing at our end. Weve have stred testing Clearflex, Masterclear, XSPC and Thermochill all ready.
> This will take us a little time to test our self as we have a lot going on atm but ill all so report any thing we find on here too.


This is a very promising and highly respectful effort to achieve the best for your customers (like me







)

Thanks... will be looking forward for the results!


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7evenHeaven*
> 
> I'm actually pretty new with WC and I just purchased a RX240 kit for my CPU and a E240 rad for my GPU.
> Nothing special expect for the Raystorm CPU & Universal GPU block (trying to save some money here as selling 2nd hand full block is pretty hard in my country) and with some compression fittings.
> I would like to ask, *won't the plasticizers get stuck around the O ring of the water blocks?*
> And should I just top-up the water occasionally or drain the system once for a long while and refill it again?
> Thanks in advance!


If get the cloud film stuff in the tubing it will no going to get stuck and reduce your performance inside your rad, res, block and fittings. After my cloud film problem caused by the plasticizers I toke a part all my water blocks and fittings and it was clean like day one even my 60mm reservoir was crystal clear after the plasticizers. we all recommend use Mayhem's products it will never going to create any layer and crystalize inside the rad's and block's this for sure. but if you use any cheap Dye stuff it will create a massive plasticizers and with the long run it will start crystalize inside your loop.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mayhem*
> 
> @skyn3t every thing is on its way to you. Weve send pastel, X1, all our dyes, biocide and kill coil
> http://www.specialtech.co.uk are supporting this as well by providing us with a samples of all the primochill range (tubing) they hold as well as tygon for testing at our end. Weve have stred testing Clearflex, Masterclear, XSPC and Thermochill all ready.
> This will take us a little time to test our self as we have a lot going on atm but ill all so report any thing we find on here too.


Thanks Mick , now I'm just waiting for the mail girl to knock in my door and hand over all the good stuff.







, and today i just start working in my bench test and put things together to be ready for all testing also my Main RiG ( Black Hawk Down ) so this way we all have two testing running at the same time.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!









Behind here i will going to setup the Rad,Res and Pump.

Bench Test and Plasticizer Problems / Loop
System Spec: HTPC running 24/7

CPU: i3 2125 corespeed: 3.3 MHz
RAM: 4GB Corsair XMS3 1600
Cooling: XSPC Raystorm + XSPC EX360 Triple 120mm Copper / Brass Radiator
Keyboard: Lenovo N5902
Audio: Custom Sound Bar with M-Audio BX5a
Motherboard: ASRock Z77E-ITX
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate
Power: OCZ 550w Fatal1ty
Sound: THX TruStudio
Graphics: Intel® HD Graphics Built-in Visuals
Optical Drive: Samsung Bluray SH-B083
Monitor: Samsung LN40C630 - 40
Case: Custom Build still in Graphical Design.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> This is a very promising and highly respectful effort to achieve the best for your customers (like me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> Thanks... will be looking forward for the results!


stay tuned ElGreco, we will going to need you and everyone else here, we need to fill this Roller coaster because the loop of testing is about to began


----------



## Mayhem

tubing has arrived from http://www.specialtech.co.uk we only need a small amount of it to test pic below ill start testing tonight each colour and let you know how it goes.

I wont be commenting on my thoughts as such just showing you pics and information as my comments are invalid

Left is tygon the rest on the right is Primochill we will get other manufacturers tubing as well.










*Test No 1 Tygon R3603*

Start of testing preliminary results

+ Mayhems Ultra Pure water
+ Silver kill coil
Temp 40c (Not exposed to UV light)
TDS = 0.00
Conductivity = 0.005us

*the mixer / Stirer will have no effect on these tests.*










*Test 1 run for 3 Hours Results*

Comparison Photo. Left New Tygon , Right Tygon after 3 hours.

Water TDS = 03.0 (+3 since start of test in 3 Hrs)










*Test No 2 Tygon R3603* (flask sanitised before test so no contamination moves across)

Start of testing preliminary results

Mayhems Ultra Pure water Only
Temp 40c (Not exposed to UV light)
TDS = 0.00
Conductivity = 0.004us










*Test 2 run for 3 Hours Results*

Comparison Photo. Left New Tygon , Middle Test 1 Tygon (after wiping off plasticizer you can still see its cloudy) , Right Tygon Test 3 hours in ultra pure water.

Water TDS = 00.5 (+0.5 since start of test in 3 Hrs)










*Test No 3 Tygon R3603*

Start of testing preliminary results

+ Mayhems X1 Clear Coolant (vegetable extract based + biocide + inhibitors)
Temp 40c (Not exposed to UV light)
TDS = 0.05
Conductivity = 0.03us










*Test 3 run for 3 Hours & 5 Hours Results*

Picture below 3 hours test show no signs of leaching how ever ramping up the Heat to 45 c and 5 hours showed the leaching. (single eyebrow raised moment)










TDS = 0.07 (after 3 hours) (40c) (thats the above pic) (the below pic is at 45c)










TDS = 0.1 (after 5 hours at 45c) what is interesting is not the time frame but the temp difference seem to induce the process of leaching. Because between 0-3 hours no leaching was present yet at 3-5 Hours with a 5c increase in temp you could actually see the leaching happing and the water turning slightly cloudy. Note TDS is rising do to exposure to CO2 emission not due to plasticizer.

*Test No 4 Tygon R3603*

+ Unrealised Product Ethylene Glycol based (Pretty close to what some coolants use except ours has a patented technology.)
Temp 40c (Not exposed to UV light) / then 45c
TDS = 0.03
Conductivity = 0.04us










*Test 5 run for 3 Hours & 5 Hours Results*

Below Tubing after 3 hours at 40c , TDS 0.06










Below Tubing at 5 hours 45c (this is 3 hours at 40c + 2 hours at 45c) Added note - the tubing has deformed a little when going to 45c. The information on Tygon web site say this tubing is rated at 60c .. TDS 0.08










This test is a 1 off to see what happened 8 Hours at 45c, The tubing has become extremely sticky to the touch. All so Noted That there is plasticizer stuck to the side of the glass in small amounts.










Plasticizer stuck to the base of the glass. This is the best pic i can get of it but its defiantly there. This was not seen in any other test so far.










*Test No 5 Tygon R3603*

+ Unreleased Product Propylene Glycol Based (used widely by many coolant makers)
TDS - 0.04
Temp 40c (Not exposed to UV light) / then 45c










*Test 5 run for 3 Hours & 5 Hours Results*

Tubing after 3 Hours at 40c TDS 0.06










*Test No 6 Tygon R3603*

+ Mayhems Biocide Extreme (Copper Sulphate being the main ingredient)

*Test No 7 Tygon R3603*

+ Asda DI water (we need to make sure that our ultra pure isn't the cause of the issue so introducing Other makers DI gives good compassion to make these tests none bias)

*Test No 8 Tygon R3603*

+Exposed directly to UV C light in a water chamber 100 watt light

Tested for 1 hour only (enough time to give a human sunburn badly)










*Test 8, 1 hour Results*

No change what so ever










*Test No 9 Tygon R3603*

+Mayhems Pastel Ice White

*Conclusion for Tygon R3603*

Work in progress


----------



## solara2xb

Great Info... Thanks!


----------



## squick3n

I didn't notice a new post. Seems like you and skynet should coordinate on a new thread. This stuff is too important to be buried this deep in an existing thread


----------



## Warrior1986

Good lord, if I understand those results, that means the tubing goes bad as soon as there is heat involved? WOW......


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mayhem*
> 
> tubing has arrived from http://www.specialtech.co.uk we only need a small amount of it to test pic below ill start testing tonight each colour and let you know how it goes.
> I wont be commenting on my thoughts as such just showing you pics and information as my comments are invalid
> Left is tygon the rest on the right is Primochill we will get other manufacturers tubing as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Test No 1 Tygon R3603*
> Start of testing preliminary results
> + Mayhems Ultra Pure water
> + Silver kill coil
> Temp 40c (Not exposed to UV light)
> TDS = 0.00
> Conductivity = 0.005us
> *the mixer / Stirer will have no effect on these tests.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Test 1 run for 3 Hours Results*
> Comparison Photo. Left New Tygon , Right Tygon after 3 hours.
> Water TDS = 03.0 (+3 since start of test in 3 Hrs)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Test No 2 Tygon R3603* (flask sanitised before test so no contamination moves across)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Start of testing preliminary results
> Mayhems Ultra Pure water Only
> Temp 40c (Not exposed to UV light)
> TDS = 0.00
> Conductivity = 0.004us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Test 2 run for 3 Hours Results*
> Comparison Photo. Left New Tygon , Middle Test 1 Tygon (after wiping off plasticizer you can still see its cloudy) , Right Tygon Test 3 hours in ultra pure water.
> Water TDS = 00.5 (+0.5 since start of test in 3 Hrs)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Test No 3 Tygon R3603*
> Start of testing preliminary results
> + Mayhems X1 Clear Coolant (vegetable extract based + biocide + inhibitors)
> Temp 40c (Not exposed to UV light)
> TDS = 0.05
> Conductivity = 0.03us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Test 3 run for 3 Hours & 5 Hours Results*
> Picture below 3 hours test show no signs of leaching how ever ramping up the Heat to 45 c and 5 hours showed the leaching. (single eyebrow raised moment)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TDS = 0.07 (after 3 hours) (40c)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TDS = 0.1 (after 5 hours at 45c) what is interesting is not the time frame but the temp difference seem to induce the process of leaching. Because between 0-3 hours no leaching was present yet at 3-5 Hours with a 5c increase in temp you could actually see the leaching happing and the water turning slightly cloudy. Note TDS is rising do to exposure to CO2 emission not due to plasticizer.
> *Test No 4 Tygon R3603*
> + Unrealised Product Ethylene Glycol based (Pretty close to what some coolants use except ours has a patented technology.)
> *Test No 5 Tygon R3603*
> + Unreleased Product Propylene Glycol Based (used widely by many coolant makers)
> *Test No 6 Tygon R3603*
> + Mayhems Biocide Extreme (Copper Sulphate being the main ingredient)
> *Test No 7 Tygon R3603*
> + Asda DI water (we need to make sure that our ultra pure isn't the cause of the issue so introducing Other makers DI gives good compassion to make these tests none bias)
> *Test No 8 Tygon R3603*
> Exposed directly to UV C light (need to set up a container for this though.)
> *Test No 9 Tygon R3603*
> +Mayhems Pastel Ice White
> *Conclusion for Tygon R3603*
> Work in progress


Mayhem Nicely and done. can't wait to see more. I'm very exited to start my testing in water loop.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Good lord, if I understand those results, that means the tubing goes bad as soon as there is heat involved? WOW......


Warrior1986 you got it right. Mayhem used the tubing lab and equipment for speed up some his test. I did all my test with long time term in emulate the warm water in contact with tubing. all my glass containers was left in my bay window just to get some part of the sun light ( shade light right beside my orchid ) just some part of the morning hours and all my result are very close like Mayhem lab test. i will post some pics tomorrow.


----------



## Mayhem

These test will take a long time to complete as we need to test as many different types of tubing it would be unfair to just test ones people have shown in this thread, we all so need to test every thing so that it is the same though out. The test are all so only showing the tubing in a glass flask and this is a little bit different to what the tubing has to put up with in a water cooling system as we all so have copper and plating as well.


----------



## Ganf

Watching this avidly. Thank you.


----------



## Warrior1986

Hey guys, just wanted to post an update that I just got the tubing I ordered a few days ago to be the guinea pig for. This stuff is looking REALLY promising.


White background so you can see that it has a very minimal bluish tint to it.


Considering how incredibly cloudy the 2001 tubing is (the only other tubing I know of that doesn't have plasiticizer in it), I was blown away by how clear this tubing is. Here's some text so you can the clarity/lack of cloudiness.



The other interesting thing about is how incredibly low the durometer is on it. It's very floppy and flexible.


----------



## jackofhearts495

Let us know how it holds up! I really need to find a reliable clear tube.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Hey guys, just wanted to post an update that I just got the tubing I ordered a few days ago to be the guinea pig for. This stuff is looking REALLY promising.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> White background so you can see that it has a very minimal bluish tint to it.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Considering how incredibly cloudy the 2001 tubing is (the only other tubing I know of that doesn't have plasiticizer in it), I was blown away by how clear this tubing is. Here's some text so you can the clarity/lack of cloudiness.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other interesting thing about is how incredibly low the durometer is on it. It's very floppy and flexible.


It does looks very clear.







today i had read a bit about this tubing and it does looks promising ( the price is a bit high $2.79 feet compared with some other brands ). but in terms of Plasticiser free is nice may be lets see how it going to hold up.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jackofhearts495*
> 
> Let us know how it holds up! I really need to find a reliable clear tube.


this time we all going to find a new tubing for sure







.
Thanks for Mayhems for provide me all hes products for testing







everything is in my way now so i will going to receive it anytime by next week. i just got all my container opened and review each tubing and making a note in everything and guess what

to be continued








tonight.


----------



## opt33

Almost all plasticizer free tubing is more expensive. E-1000 in 1/8 thickness like 3/8 ID 5/8 OD or 1/2 ID 3/4 OD is $4+ per foot. There is also 2375 which is clear (unlike 2001), but again expensive $4 to $5 per foot range. Some will use thinner tubing, but i wouldnt just to avoid kinking or compressing tubing especially with dual pumps at inlet with soft E-1000 which is meant to be compressed via use with peristaltic pumps, though with 3/8 5/8 wouldnt have to worry. But 40-50 bucks just for 10 ft tubing, ouch. I am wondering if that is why primochill, DD, feser etc dont offer plasticizer free, even though the demand is there, cant do it at a competitive price in more popular tubing sizes.


----------



## lloyd mcclendon

Quick rundown of my experiences: The clear tygon tubing is garbage, it clouds up in a week, no matter what you do (perhaps the new model fixes this). ALLL of that dye stuff is also garbage and should be pulled off of the market. It gunks up your blocks (and I guess now the tubing) within a week. Do not use it.


----------



## Mayhem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lloyd mcclendon*
> 
> ALLL of that dye stuff is also garbage and should be pulled off of the market. It gunks up your blocks (and I guess now the tubing) within a week. Do not use it.


Obversely you aint got a clue what your talking about.


----------



## mandrix

@Mayhem
In test #3 when you say TDS is rising due to CO2 emission, from where is the the CO2 coming? I assume you mean from the tubing?
BTW, before I retired I worked in a water bottling plant in the Lab. I did much water testing everyday including biological testing and Ion Chromatography (Ion Chromatography because ozone disinfectant react with bromides in water to develop bromate). I would suggest to validate your testing procedure to always use a "blank", in this case a known plasticizer free tubing I guess, run under the same conditions and in parallel as whatever else you're testing.
Best of luck to you, glad to see actual testing being carried out.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lloyd mcclendon*
> 
> Quick rundown of my experiences: The clear tygon tubing is garbage, it clouds up in a week, no matter what you do (perhaps the new model fixes this). ALLL of that dye stuff is also garbage and *should be pulled off of the market*. It gunks up your blocks (and I guess now the tubing) within a week. Do not use it.


You did used a very strong word's above. I think you must had a very bad experience with cheap stuff.

I agree with you on cheap tygon tubing but about Dye you are wrong and I can prove to you. If you use any cheap dye like primochill dyebomb for example it does crystallize in blocks and rad and it create wall inside of gunk everywhere the heat and conductivity in water cause the cheap stuff like dye bomb from primochill again create wall crystallize in certain time of use. The best dye out there is Mayhems it won't have any reaction with conductive in water and heat that cause the gunk in loop.

PS: Mayhems has some magic stuff on they mix and dye brother that's why he became the most respectful Dye in the market.







he is the only company in the market that is here with us helping and create a better product everyday.


----------



## Mayhem

@mandrix yeh we plan on doing that how ever as seen the test take a long to to do and we've created a septate thread now on the forum. we plan on testing All tubing we can get our hands on how ever this will take a few weeks, if not months to go though it all, The testing doesn't prove much tbh except that the heat alone can be a issue.

new thread here -> http://www.overclock.net/t/1272759/testing-tubing/0_20


----------



## Falknir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *opt33*
> 
> Almost all plasticizer free tubing is more expensive. E-1000 in 1/8 thickness like 3/8 ID 5/8 OD or 1/2 ID 3/4 OD is $4+ per foot. There is also 2375 which is clear (unlike 2001), but again expensive $4 to $5 per foot range. Some will use thinner tubing, but i wouldnt just to avoid kinking or compressing tubing especially with dual pumps at inlet with soft E-1000 which is meant to be compressed via use with peristaltic pumps, though with 3/8 5/8 wouldnt have to worry. But 40-50 bucks just for 10 ft tubing, ouch. I am wondering if that is why primochill, DD, feser etc dont offer plasticizer free, even though the demand is there, cant do it at a competitive price in more popular tubing sizes.


Superthane Ether can be bought for $0.58/ft to $1.38/ft in ten foot intervals there and is plasticizer free.

The pricing of tubing reminds me of the obscene price differences of buying small parts like screws, washers, grommets, spacers, and nuts. in four-piece packs at $1.50-$5.00 compared to some other brand/reseller where you can get 25/50/100pc cartons for $5-20~ and >1,000-10,000pc cartons for $30-100~. At equal or better quality.

I believe it comes down to the profit they take from every sell they manage to ring out of new and repeat buyers for tubing that costs them less than $0.20/ft at a markup of $1.50 to $5.00 per foot. That they have been getting away with for years even with cheaper alternatives at equal or better quality. Why should they break that stride now?


----------



## error-id10t

Is this mainly a problem for people who have / want clear tubing because it clouds for them, or does this go into blocks etc causing problems for everyone?


----------



## spixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lloyd mcclendon*
> 
> Quick rundown of my experiences: The clear tygon tubing is garbage, it clouds up in a week, no matter what you do (perhaps the new model fixes this). ALLL of that dye stuff is also garbage and should be pulled off of the market. It gunks up your blocks (and I guess now the tubing) within a week. Do not use it.


I used a coolant with green uv dye in it for 4 years without ever changing coolant once and NO blockages in anything.


----------



## lloyd mcclendon

Well perhaps now there is a new dye on the market that would be an exception to my previous statement, which as I said, was purely a summary of my experiences. The feser uv green dye bricked my cpu block within a week and cost me $80. I've seen a number accounts from others using dyes that resulted in the same (or worse) destruction of the block. There are some scary pictures out there, all caused by dye (viewer discretion advised, seriously).

If mayhem's products do in fact solve that problem, then kudos to him.

Getting sligthly OT here though as the subject is tubing - even without any dye the tygon is not a good choice


----------



## Caleal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> Is this mainly a problem for people who have / want clear tubing because it clouds for them, or does this go into blocks etc causing problems for everyone?


It can plug up water blocks too

http://www.markbeiser.com/Images/personal/WC/cloggedWB1.jpg

http://www.markbeiser.com/Images/personal/WC/cloggedWB2.JPG


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caleal*
> 
> It can plug up water blocks too
> http://www.markbeiser.com/Images/personal/WC/cloggedWB1.jpg
> http://www.markbeiser.com/Images/personal/WC/cloggedWB2.JPG


Dude, those pics are not much help. You need macro capability if you want to demonstrate issues that close up.


----------



## Caleal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> Dude, those pics are not much help. You need macro capability if you want to demonstrate issues that close up.


The white plasticizer goo plugging the slots in the jet plate is clearly visible...


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caleal*
> 
> The white plasticizer goo plugging the slots in the jet plate is clearly visible...


I am afraid that i cannot identify the issue due to the blury pictures


----------



## Caleal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> I am afraid that i cannot identify the issue due to the blury pictures


The focus is not perfect, and the resolution is low, but if you can't see the white stuff plugging the slots in the jet plates, something on your end is adding extra blur...


----------



## squick3n

Sorry Caleal, but they were too blurry and low res for me to see anything either. I'm not doubting you, I just can't see what you are talking about in those pictures


----------



## skyn3t

Hey Guys, i know i have been late with this test review that I'm work with all of you. but here we are.
English is my third spoke language so don't expert it to be 100%.

*Test # 1
Distilled Water + Kill coil + Tygon R-3603*

as you can see the top clear Tygon R-3603 is virgin and the bottom tubing is the
one week of testing in the glass container look how the plasticizer has affected the tubing.I just had
it removed from the container you are able to see some water drop inside.




*Test # 2
Distilled Water + Kill coil + Tygon R-3603 + Durelene*

My idea here was to see reaction of the both tubing in the same container or loop as a fact both tubing is Polyvinyl
chloride as know PVC. Tygon R-3603 and Durelene has been inside this container for 7 days and both has the same effect of Plasticizer. The two first tubing is Tygon R-3603 and the two on top are Durelene both sample has clear virgin tubing just to see how plasticizer acted bad in the past seven days.





*Test # 3
Distilled Water + kill coil + durelene + Tygonr R3603 + Tygon R3603 infected with Plasticizer in my old loop.
*
The tree first tubing is Tygon.
#1 Tygonr R3603 used in my recent test Plasticizer.
#2 Tygonr R3603 virgin tubing.
#3 Tygonr R3603 has gone bad you can see how the cloud film has gone worse ( this tubing was in my original loop for four months with Mayhems Red Dye.just to make it clear for everyone. after removed all my loop hardware for examination none of my hardware was affected by Mayhems Dye nothing was found not even plasticizer in fittings and blocks was found my reservoir still crystal clear since day one. Only the tube has gone bad.



*Test # 4
Tap water + kill coil + Tygon R3603 + Durelene*

My intention on this procedure was the same as Test #2 using more chemical conductive water but looks like
the Test #4 has the same result as the Test #2.



*Test # 5
Distilled Water + kill coil + durelene*

Here is the tubing by it self in the container. It has the same result as the others tubing test nothing different was found. It has clouded much faster then the other Test with Distiled water and it has been Plasticizer on Day #2.



*Test # 6
Distilled Water + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye +Ddurelene + Tygonr R3603*

This is to make a lot things clear for who won't believe in Mayhems Product.Two different tubing in same container has the same Plasticizer problem,same affect color in all of those test above and none has even become close to reddish or pinkish with the Mayhems Red Dye.







and none of the tubing has affected the other in terms of Plasticizer color.







*Test # 7
Distilled Water + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye + Durelene + Tygonr R3603 + Tygonr R3603 ( infected in my four months old loop ).*

Plasticizer Film, when it dried it looks very ultra fine powder.So in the beginning of formation Plasticizer film it mixed with the Dye in loop.
PSlasticizer Film is not caused by the DYE used in water, but it is caused by Plasticizer chemical in the material used to make the Tubing.
(Most vinyl products contain plasticizers which dramatically improve their performance characteristic.The most common plasticizers are derivatives of phthalic acid ).
that's why the Plasticizers has become this type of coloration.



*Test # 8
Tap water + kill coil + Mayhems Red Dye + Tygonr R3603 + Tygon R3603 infected with Plasticizer in my old loop
*
Not much to say here, it was compared with Test #2 and #4.
Plasticizer Film is not caused by the Mayhems DYE used in water, but it is caused by Plasticizer chemicalin the material used to make the Tubing.
The most common plasticizers are derivatives of phthalic acid ).
that's why the Plasticizers has become this type of coloration.



*Test # 9*

Now this is going to be interesting.
All those tubing used here Tygonr R3603.Pay attention in the color of the tubing and you will see how the tubing has dramatically been affected by the heat and plasticizers.Of course many loop out there has copper and Plating mixed in the loop.The short tubing became very yellowish, it was cut in half and cleaned good the cloud film inside again (Tygon R3603 infected in my four months old loop). It looks like my
hardware has cooked the tube a bit







take a good look now.











Final thoughts

Both tubing has suffering in all those test with plasticizers as we know cloud stuff with seven days in all type of water used in this
test with Pure Distilled water,Tape Water,Distilled and Tap water with Mayhems Dye.Mayhems has no affected in any of those test







.
None of those test i had used cooper and plating.As you can see clearly cooper and plating has nothing to do with plasticizers acceleration but it may be
has to do with the Plasticizer powder that has grow in tubing.

Plasticizer powder that has grow in tubing. still in progress with cooper and plating but like Mayhems said in couple of post back it is a long processess
and we have to keep up with our own work and life and same time taking a time to do this for all the community. thanks for reading and see you next time.


----------



## Warrior1986

Thanks for the update skyn3t.

That's incredibly disappointing to see the Duralene tubing cloud up just as bad as the crap R3603 Tygon tubing.


----------



## squick3n

Are you heating the water? Are you doing anything else or otherwise to agitate it?


----------



## B NEGATIVE

I currently have Mayhems Thermodynamic on test in my bench for Mayhem (pre-production and not out yet),I swapped out my tubing for clearflex...now,where the tubing is in daylight,its clouded,but at the back out of the light,its still clear...
I would suggest a UV test and repeating these tests in dark conditions.


----------



## covert ash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Thanks for the update skyn3t.
> That's incredibly disappointing to see the Duralene tubing cloud up just as bad as the crap R3603 Tygon tubing.


Agreed.









Thanks sky! I just sent my cancellation request to Gary just now for my Durelene order, and created a new order for Clearflex 60 from McMaster Carr:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/118/123/=i4blig

While Clearflex 60 does cloud over time, it seems to take much longer than a few days to a week, or at least that is what I have read so far.


----------



## superericla

I just threw some Masterkleer, Primochill Clear, Promochill UV Red, and Tygon R-3606 into some water for a bit of a small test. I'll be back with results in a week. I'll be comparing results in darkness versus under UV light.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Thanks for the update skyn3t.
> That's incredibly disappointing to see the Duralene tubing cloud up just as bad as the crap R3603 Tygon tubing.


no problem, but you guys need to wait a bit before place a order i will explain why today i just need to get home and take my Main RiG for photo spin with Durelene + Distilled water. it still clear in loop now don't ask me how it has holding up and my other RiG with Durelene + Distilled Water + Mayhems Red Dye its running since yesterday and it will be running 24/7 no stop.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squick3n*
> 
> Are you heating the water? Are you doing anything else or otherwise to agitate it?


sorry i did forgot to post that info







.
Answer : Water temperature was around 24c to 30c for couple of hours in the morning in my bay window with shade sunlight (PS: Shade Sunlight not pointed directly to sun. ) after this period the temperature was around 23c.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> I currently have Mayhems Thermodynamic on test in my bench for Mayhem (pre-production and not out yet),I swapped out my tubing for clearflex...now,where the tubing is in daylight,its clouded,but at the back out of the light,its still clear...
> I would suggest a UV test and repeating these tests in dark conditions.


Good job









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *covert ash*
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks sky! I just sent my cancellation request to Gary just now for my Durelene order, and created a new order for Clearflex 60 from McMaster Carr:
> http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/118/123/=i4blig
> While Clearflex 60 does cloud over time, it seems to take much longer than a few days to a week, or at least that is what I have read so far.


No problem , but guys I'm going to ask to houlp up in the Durelene results its seems weird because the same day i added those tubing test in the glass container i did exchanged all my tubing to Durelene
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superericla*
> 
> I just threw some Masterkleer, Primochill Clear, Promochill UV Red, and Tygon R-3606 into some water for a bit of a small test. I'll be back with results in a week. I'll be comparing results in darkness versus under UV light.


superericla : depends is the room temperature keep eyes on it in interval of 8 hours and see how it goes.

PS: The Durelene in my Loop still clear no signers of plasticizers and cloud as far i checked last night. i will be home in a bit just hang on.


----------



## skyn3t

I'm back again.This tubing was added on June 15 / 2012 @ 12:07am Post #796. I just got home about few hours a go and i had to use my camera phone for those shot's i toke it outside to get some nice natural light for all photos. today is the RiG clean day so 4 Pcs for clean i like to see my things neat and shine, hope it will be clear enough to see how the Durelene + Distilled water + kill Coil is holding up in LOOP.

Loop drain line


FTW SLI with koolance Plating block


kill coil placement










I know my SSD is kind of getto inside but I'm work on a new ssd support and temp display, that's why it's hanging like that.






XSPC RX360 Cooper Fin.




Our Plasticizer Test Bench as know my HTPC.









I just had this done yesterday and its running very good hardward info is in my sig RiG Plasticizer Test Bench

Hardware parts used










I had no time to play nice with this bench test because i have been busy in the past weeks so I'm work in my own custom case and when it ready i will going to show how it is supposed to look.


----------



## squick3n

Nice setups skyn3t. I ordered some durelene last week and am still waiting to deploy it. Looking forward to more results


----------



## superericla

I've been running Masterkleer for about a month now with Mayhem's X1 UV Clear/Blue with no signs of clouding so far...


----------



## squick3n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superericla*
> 
> I've been running Masterkleer for about a month now with Mayhem's X1 UV Clear/Blue with no signs of clouding so far...


I currently have some Primochill and Mastekleer in my loop. I'll be taking it apart and posting my 1 month results.

btw I really like what you are doing with your build. The only dye I've ever really thought to use was something like that where it looks ocean blue. I'm hoping all of the testing will kind of ease my mind on where the "gunk" come from. If what people are blaming on dye is mostly from the tubing then I think that's a possible eye opener.


----------



## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squick3n*
> 
> I currently have some Primochill and Mastekleer in my loop. I'll be taking it apart and posting my 1 month results.
> btw I really like what you are doing with your build. The only dye I've ever really thought to use was something like that where it looks ocean blue. I'm hoping all of the testing will kind of ease my mind on where the "gunk" come from. If what people are blaming on dye is mostly from the tubing then I think that's a possible eye opener.


My thought was to match the ASUS blue color on my motherboard, but the build turned into a mashup of lighter blue colors. There's a lot more I'm planning on adding soon.


----------



## error-id10t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caleal*
> 
> It can plug up water blocks too
> http://www.markbeiser.com/Images/personal/WC/cloggedWB1.jpg
> http://www.markbeiser.com/Images/personal/WC/cloggedWB2.JPG


Ok thanks, that's no good. Like others said the pictures of course aren't the best but I can see the white stuff I think you implied is the stuff coming off and staying on the block.


----------



## superericla

It's interesting to note that so far in my very small test, the clear Primochill tubing (out of clear primochill, masterkleer, tygon r3603, and uv red primochill) is the only one that has clouded so far after only 1.5 days. All other pieces of tubing are clear so far.


----------



## Agenesis

Haven't been on this thread since January, can anyone tell me what the "go-to" brand for tubing is now?

Just looking for white in particular. Is primochill still good?


----------



## Kinru

It seems that leaving the tubing in direct sunlight might have something to do with the leeching/clouding?


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinru*
> 
> It seems that leaving the tubing in direct sunlight might have something to do with the leeching/clouding?


No. I never put the tubing directly to sun light go back in my post and read what I did. I used shade light from the sun. Shade not directly.


----------



## Warrior1986

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agenesis*
> 
> Haven't been on this thread since January, can anyone tell me what the "go-to" brand for tubing is now?
> Just looking for white in particular. Is primochill still good?


There is no "go-to" brand for tubing right now. That's the whole point of this thread. And AFAIK, Primochill is tied with R3603 as being the worst tubing around.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> There is no "go-to" brand for tubing right now. That's the whole point of this thread. And AFAIK, Primochill is tied with R3603 as being the worst tubing around.


Their making a new name for themselves!


----------



## jinsoup

I ordered the Duralene 1/2" ID x 3/4" OD from Sidewinder Computers a few weeks ago.
It's definitely staying clearer than the Primochill, still as clear as the day it came.

One thing to note however, is that the bore is not as smooth as the Primochill LRT, as there are some small divots or "bumps" in the tubing if you look closely.

Otherwise, it can bend from my CPU to the a universal GPU block without kinking so I highly recommend it.

Am now running Distilled + 2 drops PT Nuke.

Check sig fig for the big picture thing.


----------



## superericla

I put some tubing in regular tap water just 2.5 days ago and now have some somewhat surprising results...

First up is the clear Primochill tubing... which actually appears to be the worst performing in this situation. The tubing is completely clouded inside and out.



Next is the Tygon R-3603. While it performed *much* better than the clear Primochill, there still is some slight clouding present.



Now on to the Masterkleer. So far, it appears as though the Masterkleer has held up best in this limited test, with only minimal clouding.



Finally, the UV Red Primochill. The red color hides the clouding very well, little to no clouding is noticeable. (note: due to camera white balancing, the picture appears more blue than the others. The tubing is actually not noticeably clouded)


----------



## Warrior1986

Yup, just like I thought. Primochill is complete garbage.


----------



## jinsoup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Yup, just like I thought. Primochill is complete garbage.


yea they didnt even bother responding to my ambiguous email to their support email.

I think I said "my tubing is having some problems" or something like that...
Primochill LRT 2012 and newer = fail.

It left so much **** in my expensive nozzles and waterblocks that i needed to brush each of them several minutes with a toothbrush (and they're still gunky)

(Primochill LRT)







<--me


----------



## mybadomen

Ever think its not the tubing? All im going to say for now but pretty obvious . Oh yeah just wipe the white stuff off it comes off very easy. Hence its not the tubing! Any brand!



How anyone can think this is a tubing issue totally boggles me ?


----------



## squick3n

So the white stuff just happens to all tubing and is nothing to worry about?


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superericla*
> 
> I put some tubing in regular tap water just 2.5 days ago and now have some somewhat surprising results...
> First up is the clear Primochill tubing... which actually appears to be the worst performing in this situation. The tubing is completely clouded inside and out.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next is the Tygon R-3603. While it performed *much* better than the clear Primochill, there still is some slight clouding present.
> 
> Now on to the Masterkleer. So far, it appears as though the Masterkleer has held up best in this limited test, with only minimal clouding.
> 
> Finally, the UV Red Primochill. The red color hides the clouding very well, little to no clouding is noticeable. (note: due to camera white balancing, the picture appears more blue than the others. The tubing is actually not noticeably clouded)


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Yup, just like I thought. Primochill is complete garbage.


when Brand Company don't answer they costumers emails is sign that they are going down so bad. even with bad costumer support they should at least replay with something.

can you cut the PrimoChill and show us inside i love to see it. by the way by Saturday i will post more update about Durelene. it still holding up so good under Dist Water+kill C+ Mayhems Red Dye. it does look day one still.


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squick3n*
> 
> So the white stuff just happens to all tubing and is nothing to worry about?


I never said that . I only said its something on the tubing that simply wipes off and this has been known for ages. But still people blaming the tubing? And happens with all brands and started roughly 2 years ago roughly . So question is why do so many think its the tubing? Wipe it off looks brand new again. And all i did in the Photo shown was just lightly wiped it with a dry rag.Plus i have tested Hundreds of feet of tubing . Just haven't posted because been just watching the company bashing . Lol ...so who cares what one turns whiter faster or longer . How about a final solution so none turn white ?

I seen more then 1 company putting huge efforts into resolving this Problem so we should at least give them some credit for it.

Take care and trust me i want it clear as Bad as everyone else or maybe even more.

*MybadOmen*


----------



## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> [/SPOILER]
> when Brand Company don't answer they costumers emails is sign that they are going down so bad. even with bad costumer support they should at least replay with something.
> *can you cut the PrimoChill and show us inside*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i love to see it. by the way by Saturday i will post more update about Durelene. it still holding up so good under Dist Water+kill C+ Mayhems Red Dye. it does look day one still.


I actually just threw it out. I'll put some new tubing back in some water and in a few days I'll have a cut open view.


----------



## superericla

Here's a pic of some Masterkleer I added to my loop ~1 month ago:



Apart from some dust, the tubing is still perfectly clear. I'm running Mayhem's X1 UV Clear/Blue.


----------



## jinsoup

Unfortunately for the comment by mybadomen, this phenomenon doesnt hold true for all tubing.

This is what the tubing looked like after 2-3 weeks:

and up close:


Here is the Primochill LRT 1/2" x 3/4" after just under 1 months use with pure distilled:



Same tubing cut open after under 1 month of usage:


You can "rub" off the white stuff which ends up being a powdery substance, "plasticizer" most of us call it.... I dont think you can rub it off very well when it's in your loop. This stuff will build up in your expensive radiator, waterblock, pump and nozzles as it did in mine.

How do you rub it off when your tubing is not cut open?

I usually hate to recommend people not to buy a product due to just my own experience, however,
DONT BUY PRIMOCHILL LRT it is baddie.

_________
Tygon 2001 series seems to be plasticizer free, but it's Really expensive.
I haven't had any clouding with this $0.69/ft Duralene stuff and it's been half a month. (LRT cloouded in a matter of days)


----------



## Kokin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> I never said that . I only said its something on the tubing that simply wipes off and this has been known for ages. But still people blaming the tubing? And happens with all brands and started roughly 2 years ago roughly . So question is why do so many think its the tubing? Wipe it off looks brand new again. And all i did in the Photo shown was just lightly wiped it with a dry rag.Plus i have tested Hundreds of feet of tubing . Just haven't posted because been just watching the company bashing . Lol ...so who cares what one turns whiter faster or longer . How about a final solution so none turn white ?
> I seen more then 1 company putting huge efforts into resolving this Problem so we should at least give them some credit for it.
> Take care and trust me i want it clear as Bad as everyone else or maybe even more.
> *MybadOmen*


Not true. I just added a parallel bridge recently and while my old tubing was fully clouded after 4 months of usage, it had also changed in color. The clouded tubing was not clear anymore despite wiping the inside of the tubing. It was also not the same shade of blue as it was before. The unused tubing was a very clear translucent true blue while the old tubing had a slightly greener/teal tint to it (not algae).

This isn't a great picture of it and it's hard to distinguish the color differences, but in actual life there was a clear difference. This is Masterkleer UV Blue tubing btw.


----------



## spixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> Ever think its not the tubing? All im going to say for now but pretty obvious . Oh yeah just wipe the white stuff off it comes off very easy. Hence its not the tubing! Any brand!
> 
> How anyone can think this is a tubing issue totally boggles me ?


Yeah, wipe it off by cutting the tubing in half, then superglue it back together.. good as new.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spixel*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> Ever think its not the tubing? All im going to say for now but pretty obvious . Oh yeah just wipe the white stuff off it comes off very easy. Hence its not the tubing! Any brand!
> 
> How anyone can think this is a tubing issue totally boggles me ?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, wipe it off by cutting the tubing in half, then superglue it back together.. good as new.
Click to expand...

Cut small piece from an old rag and push it through with what ever you have, or use a paintball squeegee. Granted it's something we shouldn't have to do every 1-6 month, but its cheaper than buying new tubing until someone finds a solution. Vinegar seems to clean it up very easy.


----------



## jinsoup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Cut small piece from an old rag and push it through with what ever you have, or use a paintball squeegee. Granted it's something we shouldn't have to do every 1-6 month, but its cheaper than buying new tubing until someone finds a solution. Vinegar seems to clean it up very easy.


Mind also pushing that rag through each and every nozzle, pump, ans water block too?
Maybe it was just me that noticed white powder crap in my shiny blocks?

rags leave lint.

I wouldn't mind cleaning once every 6 months, but once a month is absurd. 3 months is the duration when ur supposed to routinely clean right?


----------



## ElGreco

I was wondering...

a. How many people here have observed this powder somewhere else than their tubes?
b. Cleaning the powder would decrease the powder growth rate within the same tube, aka prefer to clean the same tubes instead of replacing them? At least until a final solution is found...

What do you think?


----------



## squick3n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> I was wondering...
> a. How many people here have observed this powder somewhere else than their tubes?
> b. Cleaning the powder would decrease the powder growth rate within the same tube, aka prefer to clean the same tubes instead of replacing them? At least until a final solution is found...
> What do you think?


A couple people have found them in their blocks. I'm taking mine apart over the weekend to look as well. I've never seen the stuff in my reservoir, fwiw


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> I was wondering...
> a. How many people here have observed this powder somewhere else than their tubes?
> b. Cleaning the powder would decrease the powder growth rate within the same tube, aka prefer to clean the same tubes instead of replacing them? At least until a final solution is found...
> What do you think?


in my opinion Durelene for now it's cheap and looks like it more durable than Tygon r3603 and Primochill, the amount of PVC in Durelene make the durometer I bit hard for some small bends but it's make the Powder cloud stuff out the tubing at least looks like it going to have long live than the others brands out there. I have to take some pics and show you guys what I'm doing in this past weeks. Every two days I drain a bit of water from my two RiG system and put a virgin tube beside the tube in my loop, I have so seem much difference in both tubes. A few post back I had showed how the powder stuff had grow in my tubing and how cooked was the tygon after I cleaned a peace inside and outside turned yellowish. If you going to build any loop and don't know what tubing to choose from I do recommend Durele its more cheap than any brand.

Ps: that's no such thing in cleaning tubing that had cloud powder stuff and reused it. How many $20 bucks you just dump with insignificant things each month. So buy new tubing and put it back or now you guys going to start recycle the tubing. No no do it right.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jinsoup*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Cut small piece from an old rag and push it through with what ever you have, or use a paintball squeegee. Granted it's something we shouldn't have to do every 1-6 month, but its cheaper than buying new tubing until someone finds a solution. Vinegar seems to clean it up very easy.
> 
> 
> 
> Mind also pushing that rag through each and every nozzle, pump, ans water block too?
> Maybe it was just me that noticed white powder crap in my shiny blocks?
> 
> rags leave lint.
> 
> I wouldn't mind cleaning once every 6 months, but once a month is absurd. 3 months is the duration when ur supposed to routinely clean right?
Click to expand...

I'm not saying it's the ideal thing but it can be done if needed.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Ps: that's no such thing in cleaning tubing that had cloud powder stuff and reused it. How many $20 bucks you just dump with insignificant things each month. So buy new tubing and put it back or now you guys going to start recycle the tubing. No no do it right.


I agree do it right, but I'm sure many, including me did not plan on having to replace tubing every couple month, and for some a couple weeks. For me, every 6 months would be no big deal, but every other month is a little much. I will be going to copper tubing until there is some fix or someone finds tubing that will last more than 6 months min. In the long run it will be cheaper going copper, in fact it will pay for it's self in about a years time.


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> in my opinion Durelene for now it's cheap and looks like it more durable than Tygon r3603 and Primochill, the amount of PVC in Durelene make the durometer I bit hard for some small bends but it's make the Powder cloud stuff out the tubing at least looks like it going to have long live than the others brands out there. I have to take some pics and show you guys what I'm doing in this past weeks. Every two days I drain a bit of water from my two RiG system and put a virgin tube beside the tube in my loop, I have so seem much difference in both tubes. A few post back I had showed how the powder stuff had grow in my tubing and how cooked was the tygon after I cleaned a peace inside and outside turned yellowish. If you going to build any loop and don't know what tubing to choose from I do recommend Durele its more cheap than any brand.
> Ps: that's no such thing in cleaning tubing that had cloud powder stuff and reused it. How many $20 bucks you just dump with insignificant things each month. So buy new tubing and put it back or now you guys going to start recycle the tubing. No no do it right.


Actually i have all my fittings in the 7/16-5/8 size and am not sure if Durelene has that size OR if its the right solution!

My loop has about 4meters of Primochill black and uv blue tubing and i have another 4m spare. I bought it in Dec 2011 and still havent found the time to check its condition.

Hopefully i will clean my loop within this month, so i was thinking what is best:
a.To reuse my old tubing after ceaning it IF this will cause lower powder growth rate
b.Use my spare primochill (same batch)
c.Buy something new (nothing seems a solid solution currently)

Since I ve spent more than 2000€ for my loop only, buying new tubes is the least of my problem! My problem is -lack of time- to experiment with new tubes OR to clean my MORA3 Pro 9x 140 rad and my 2x komodo 7970 blocks in case the new tubes have such huge powder issues!


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> Hopefully i will clean my loop within this month, so i was thinking what is best:
> a.To reuse my old tubing after ceaning it IF this will cause lower powder growth rate
> b.Use my spare primochill (same batch)
> c.Buy something new (nothing seems a solid solution currently)


Well it might be old enough to be the good stuff, it seems something has changed with their tubing and doesn't seem to last as long as it used to. I really hope all this gets sorted out.


----------



## Agenesis

Primochill white, 5 months. Just took it apart today.



If you go back to the first page you can see that my previous 6 month old black primochill only exhibited a little bit of this powdered plasticizer stuff...now the white tubing is just CAKED in. Oddly enough it is only on my fittings, my cpu/gpu blocks are perfect aside from a little oxidation.

Still waiting for a census on a good brand so I can replace everything


----------



## error-id10t

I've got white Primochill too.. when I've taken the loop apart I haven't seen anything on the fittings thankfully (or in the blocks from what I see) but I did see some in the res which came off easy enough with rubbing it. It's odd it's gone there without touching fittings etc though.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> Actually i have all my fittings in the 7/16-5/8 size and am not sure if Durelene has that size OR if its the right solution!
> My loop has about 4meters of Primochill black and uv blue tubing and i have another 4m spare. I bought it in Dec 2011 and still havent found the time to check its condition.
> Hopefully i will clean my loop within this month, so i was thinking what is best:
> a.To reuse my old tubing after ceaning it IF this will cause lower powder growth rate
> b.Use my spare primochill (same batch)
> c.Buy something new (nothing seems a solid solution currently)
> Since I ve spent more than 2000€ for my loop only, buying new tubes is the least of my problem! My problem is -lack of time- to experiment with new tubes OR to clean my MORA3 Pro 9x 140 rad and my 2x komodo 7970 blocks in case the new tubes have such huge powder issues!


They have all the sizes so no worries here is the link for you Durelene PVCi will suggest you to read more a bit here Plasticizer Problems / Discussion / Gallery - Page 75 you will going to read some very interesting post from a very respectful person Martinm210 that has been in our community for so long hes has more review done here than hair on hes head







Durelene 16 Months Old in a loop and still looks day 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Well it might be old enough to be the good stuff, it seems something has changed with their tubing and doesn't seem to last as long as it used to. I really hope all this gets sorted out.


It will never going to be sorted out, Primochill going down like BFG look the photos below
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agenesis*
> 
> Primochill white, 5 months. Just took it apart today.
> 
> If you go back to the first page you can see that my previous 6 month old black primochill only exhibited a little bit of this powdered plasticizer stuff...now the white tubing is just CAKED in. Oddly enough it is only on my fittings, my cpu/gpu blocks are perfect aside from a little oxidation.
> Still waiting for a census on a good brand so I can replace everything


This Tube and fittings above looks like old car battery when it start getting old and about to explode.









This is not acceptable how a company has fallen a part and ruin they costumes like that, those pictures are the proof of Primochill tubing that have had call out our attention HERE IN THIS THREAD. We put so much time,love and money in our loop hardware to use this kind of tubing look how bad it is and people giving advice to still using it and clean it when its get bad.
How many people don't know about this Plasticizes Problems
How many people still buying it and still recommending it to other?
after since the first post I still don't believe that people still buying it and using it. come on people that's no doughty how bad its become.

Now answer this question.

Would you buy a Maserati and use the cheapest gasoline when you run out and when we need the tire you go to a local Auto parts for some cheap Tire?
Me A: Hell Da **** NO. so this is your hardware what you going to do clean it ? tell how because i don't know i will love to know how you deal with it.

PS: Stop buying Primochill.

Agenesis : Thanks for posting your hardware


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> They have all the sizes so no worries here is the link for you Durelene PVCi will suggest you to read more a bit here Plasticizer Problems / Discussion / Gallery - Page 75 you will going to read some very interesting post from a very respectful person Martinm210 that has been in our community for so long hes has more review done here than hair on hes head
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Durelene 16 Months Old in a loop and still looks day 1
> It will never going to be sorted out, Primochill going down like BFG look the photos below


Thanks for your reply








Martin, Skinnee, Bundymania, Gabe (swiftech), Mick (Mayhems) are some of the people i closely read and with some of them i ve also exchanged quite a few emails








I ve been following the thread you mention from the very beginning with great attention and eventhough i find it very imformative, i think that still we have not finalized what actually is the best tubing currently, if any. Durelene seems nice, but it still needs some test to go and it does not come in colored versions. I use about 4meters of tubing in my loop and i prefer my mayems ultra pure water to be as less as possible in contact with sunlight!


----------



## earthwormjim

Isn't the main issue here that most of the tubing used (tygon R3603 series and its derivatives) is not really intended for long term use with liquids. This is mainly tubing for gasses.

I'm going to try out norprene in my new build, that's a hose rated for fluids (it'll stand up to brake fluid), it definitely will not leech. Doesn't really help people looking for clear tubing though...


----------



## squick3n

Ageneis that looks awful. I'm kind of shocked it isn't in your blocks. I almost looks like corrosion, but that would also show up in your blocks


----------



## n0n44m

I have no hope of avoiding this issue ... especially since my rig runs *24/7 (!!)*

I used Masterkleer 13/10 UV Blue on my build last year, with a bit of Feser 13/10 UV Blue on the external connection

for the first 6 months I had no issues, but then flow steadily started dropping from 110 l/hour to as low as 85 over a course of two months, until I opened my Aquacomputer filter and cleaned it. After that it stayed at 105ish for a week or two before dropping again

I saw more and more particles floating through the reservoir, especially the one time I powered it down for a day and booted it up again

this is what the tube and fitting between CPU and GPU looked like when I removed it last month (again, this ran pretty much 24/7 for about 12 months!)










with my new build I'll be using the same Masterkleer tubing, but now I have the filter on top of the case (see build log







) so I can hopefully clean it much easier

I'll post some pics when I open up my Supreme HF , I'm curious to see if it has the plasticizer in it as well ! Temperatures were *never* noticeably affected though...

edit: using distilled + kill coil


----------



## Neale1993

I dont think its just the piping to take into consideration... Got this in my res after using MasterKleer Clear tubing for around 5 months with PrimoChill Blood Red. Tried to clean it out but just cant do it. You can see a clear spot where i got a piece of cloth in an managed to wipe, confirming there is something there.

(sorry havent got the tubing still, but that was thick coating also)





Used MasterKleer again but with mayhems blood red in one loop and green in another and both seem completely fine 2 months in. Tubing still look completely clear (apart from a bit of dust). I dont think in all cases its just the tubing, a combination of fluid and tubing deffinatly but not really one or the other imo.


----------



## Calistohelix

I just found this thread and don't begin to have time to read all 90 pages of it, but I did go over the last couple of pages and wanted to make sure I'm understanding the conclusions being drawn as I understand it.

This plasticizer issue is primarily with clear tubing correct? I run Tygon-3606 (or whatever the common one with a number along those lines is) in my current loop and I have noticed clouding with an almost green tinge to it. I run with distilled water and a silver coil and nothing else and the rig never sees any light aside from a couple of LED's in my fans. The loop has been running 24/7 since Sept of last year with the only change being replacing most of the distilled water when I changed the GPU this past January.

As I've seen a spike in temps over the last few weeks (which I'm mostly attributing to dying rad fans) I'm planning on taking apart the loop and re-seating both the GPU & CPU blocks, going from a 3 fan pull to a 6 fan push/pull on my 360 rad, and replacing all the tubing with primochill UV red because I've decided I want to go colored and everything I've read says to stay far far away from dyes. Is the issue being discussed here something I need to be worried about?


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neale1993*
> 
> I dont think its just the piping to take into consideration... Got this in my res after using MasterKleer Clear tubing for around 5 months with PrimoChill Blood Red. Tried to clean it out but just cant do it. You can see a clear spot where i got a piece of cloth in an managed to wipe, confirming there is something there.
> 
> (sorry havent got the tubing still, but that was thick coating also)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Used MasterKleer again but with mayhems blood red in one loop and green in another and both seem completely fine 2 months in. Tubing still look completely clear (apart from a bit of dust). I dont think in all cases its just the tubing, a combination of fluid and tubing deffinatly but not really one or the other imo.


The temperature of the water seems to have a big part in it.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1272759/testing-tubing
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Calistohelix*
> 
> I just found this thread and don't begin to have time to read all 90 pages of it, but I did go over the last couple of pages and wanted to make sure I'm understanding the conclusions being drawn as I understand it.
> 
> This plasticizer issue is primarily with clear tubing correct? I run Tygon-3606 (or whatever the common one with a number along those lines is) in my current loop and I have noticed clouding with an almost green tinge to it. I run with distilled water and a silver coil and nothing else and the rig never sees any light aside from a couple of LED's in my fans. The loop has been running 24/7 since Sept of last year with the only change being replacing most of the distilled water when I changed the GPU this past January.
> 
> As I've seen a spike in temps over the last few weeks (which I'm mostly attributing to dying rad fans) I'm planning on taking apart the loop and re-seating both the GPU & CPU blocks, going from a 3 fan pull to a 6 fan push/pull on my 360 rad, and replacing all the tubing with primochill UV red because I've decided I want to go colored and everything I've read says to stay far far away from dyes. Is the issue being discussed here something I need to be worried about?


Primochill clear or color is one of the worse offenders for this problem. The only dye I will use is Mayhems.


----------



## Ovrclck

I just ordered 10 ft Durelene PVC tubing to replace my clear primochill. I'm currently using mayhem uv green and lately I've noticed it's not green anymore!! Just white, ugh


----------



## Neale1993

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> The temperature of the water seems to have a big part in it.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1272759/testing-tubing
> Primochill clear or color is one of the worse offenders for this problem. The only dye I will use is Mayhems.


Any ideas how to clean it out? Im kinda weary about putting it back in my loop, to the point i got out another res an used that instead but i really like this one xD
Tried using hot water, vinegar, mix of both... nothing :/ It seems to float around in the vinegar till i either tip or pump the liquid back out, then it just sits back down again -_-

An yeah... ive been following that thread recently... As said i use mayhems now anyways... much better







Will continue to in future too...


----------



## Kinru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neale1993*
> 
> Any ideas how to clean it out? Im kinda weary about putting it back in my loop, to the point i got out another res an used that instead but i really like this one xD
> Tried using hot water, vinegar, mix of both... nothing :/ It seems to float around in the vinegar till i either tip or pump the liquid back out, then it just sits back down again -_-
> An yeah... ive been following that thread recently... As said i use mayhems now anyways... much better
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will continue to in future too...


Use a toothbrush and scrub. Should do it.


----------



## Neale1993

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinru*
> 
> Use a toothbrush and scrub. Should do it.


Thats the thing... i cant get anything in there. Its a solid res, the front doesnt come off and the only ways to get something in is through the fillport or the ports for tubing. I could possibly fit a toothbrush through the holes but i would only be able to get to a small amount of the res.


----------



## error-id10t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Calistohelix*
> 
> I just found this thread and don't begin to have time to read all 90 pages of it, but I did go over the last couple of pages and wanted to make sure I'm understanding the conclusions being drawn as I understand it.


It'd be good if the main findings were covered in the first post but overall I think this affects everything, people only saw this because of clear tubing. You'll find people posting their fittings being covered with this stuff and also their res (like I found but toothbrush and light rub got it out easily). At least one pic with white stuff on their block was also shown .. so it's everywhere and anything, not just clear tubing.

Correct if wrong please..


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squick3n*
> 
> Ageneis that looks awful. I'm kind of shocked it isn't in your blocks. I almost looks like corrosion, but that would also show up in your blocks


I do agree with you looks like corrosion i have seem things like that before i had a friend of mine with the same thing in the picture above but much worse .
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *n0n44m*
> 
> I have no hope of avoiding this issue ... especially since my rig runs *24/7 (!!)*
> I used Masterkleer 13/10 UV Blue on my build last year, with a bit of Feser 13/10 UV Blue on the external connection
> for the first 6 months I had no issues, but then flow steadily started dropping from 110 l/hour to as low as 85 over a course of two months, until I opened my Aquacomputer filter and cleaned it. After that it stayed at 105ish for a week or two before dropping again
> I saw more and more particles floating through the reservoir, especially the one time I powered it down for a day and booted it up again
> this is what the tube and fitting between CPU and GPU looked like when I removed it last month (again, this ran pretty much 24/7 for about 12 months!)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> with my new build I'll be using the same Masterkleer tubing, but now I have the filter on top of the case (see build log
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) so I can hopefully clean it much easier
> I'll post some pics when I open up my Supreme HF , I'm curious to see if it has the plasticizer in it as well ! Temperatures were *never* noticeably affected though...
> edit: using distilled + kill coil


the only option you have now is change the tubing and pray for it not get more serious that is now. I never used Masterkleer but I read good think about it. if you want to try something cheap and a bit more safe give a Durelene a shot.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neale1993*
> 
> I dont think its just the piping to take into consideration... Got this in my res after using MasterKleer Clear tubing for around 5 months with PrimoChill Blood Red. Tried to clean it out but just cant do it. You can see a clear spot where i got a piece of cloth in an managed to wipe, confirming there is something there.
> (sorry havent got the tubing still, but that was thick coating also)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Used MasterKleer again but with mayhems blood red in one loop and green in another and both seem completely fine 2 months in. Tubing still look completely clear (apart from a bit of dust). I dont think in all cases its just the tubing, *a combination of fluid and tubing deffinatly but not really one or the other imo*.


PrimoChill Blood Red = it's Crystalizer inside of your blocks after weeks of use months this is bad for any kinda loop.
Nice to read one more good thing Masterkleer








About combination of fluid : I'm not here to shoot the first rock in Primochill but it has been serious issue since this Thread started. but something in the chemical in Primochill Tubing is causing this Powder stuff to grow so strong inside they tubing. if you look back you will find a lot cloud tubing but not as heave like Primochill. My Tygon R 3603 had clouded a lot you can see it here Post 796 but one more thing is i never found any POWDER stuff inside my fittings and block even after my Tygon R3603 had milked.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Calistohelix*
> 
> I just found this thread and don't begin to have time to read all 90 pages of it, but I did go over the last couple of pages and wanted to make sure I'm understanding the conclusions beinghttp://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/900# drawn as I understand it.
> This plasticizer issue is primarily with clear tubing correct? I run Tygon-3606 (or whatever the common one with a number along those lines is) in my current loop and I have noticed clouding with an almost green tinge to it. I run with distilled water and a silver coil and nothing else and the rig never sees any light aside from a couple of LED's in my fans. The loop has been running 24/7 since Sept of last year with the only change being replacing most of the distilled water when I changed the GPU this past January.
> As I've seen a spike in temps over the last few weeks (which I'm mostly attributing to dying rad fans) I'm planning on taking apart the loop and re-seating both the GPU & CPU blocks, going from a 3 fan pull to a 6 fan push/pull on my 360 rad, and replacing all the tubing with primochill UV red because I've decided I want to go colored and everything I've read says to stay far far away from dyes. Is the issue being discussed here *something I need to be worried about?*


Yes, get a Durelene + Mayhems and you be safe







trust me i know what I'm talk about.e
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> The temperature of the water seems to have a big part in it.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1272759/testing-tubing
> Primochill clear or color is one of the worse offenders for this problem. The only dye I will use is Mayhems.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BGKris*
> 
> I just ordered 10 ft Durelene PVC tubing to replace my clear primochill. I'm currently using mayhem uv green and lately I've noticed it's not green anymore!! Just white, ugh











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neale1993*
> 
> Any ideas how to clean it out? Im kinda weary about putting it back in my loop, to the point i got out another res an used that instead but i really like this one xD
> Tried using hot water, vinegar, mix of both... nothing :/ It seems to float around in the vinegar till i either tip or pump the liquid back out, then it just sits back down again -_-
> An yeah... ive been following that thread recently... As said i use mayhems now anyways... much better
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will continue to in future too...


that's no way to clean it like you think. you have to keep in mind that this stuff can get into your blocks and late on you have to change no only the tube itself but spend a lot more in new blocks.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinru*
> 
> Use a toothbrush and scrub. Should do it.


cross that out of you mind please do it for your own good.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neale1993*
> 
> Thats the thing... i cant get anything in there. Its a solid res, the front doesnt come off and the only ways to get something in is through the fillport or the ports for tubing. I could possibly fit a toothbrush through the holes but i would only be able to get to a small amount of the res.


cross that out of you mind please do it for your own good.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> It'd be good if the main findings were covered in the first post but overall I think this affects everything, people only saw this because of clear tubing. You'll find people posting their fittings being covered with this stuff and also their res (like I found but toothbrush and light rub got it out easily). At least one pic with white stuff on their block was also shown .. so it's everywhere and anything, not just clear tubing.
> Correct if wrong please..


you are right in certain point. let me clear this out for ya, clear tubing tends to cloud it in certain time of use * cloud* not generate Plasticizes like this one here Post #772 look close to top left corner how the Plasticizes *start to pill of like a skin* this is the stuff you guys seem moving around in the *Tubing and ReS* and this gunk in the rad and blocks and start to create another stuff like *Crystalizer* inside slow your flow and temps start to increase.

PS: I'm here to help not to criticism.

Thank you all for read this i know we had a long run in 91 Pages so 900 Post but in the last 70 pages you guys will find a lot good reading. of course a lot more good reading in all those 900 post but will be a hard to dig so deep.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neale1993*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> The temperature of the water seems to have a big part in it.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1272759/testing-tubing
> Primochill clear or color is one of the worse offenders for this problem. The only dye I will use is Mayhems.
> 
> 
> 
> Any ideas how to clean it out? Im kinda weary about putting it back in my loop, to the point i got out another res an used that instead but i really like this one xD
> Tried using hot water, vinegar, mix of both... nothing :/ It seems to float around in the vinegar till i either tip or pump the liquid back out, then it just sits back down again -_-
> 
> An yeah... ive been following that thread recently... As said i use mayhems now anyways... much better
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will continue to in future too...
Click to expand...

Maybe something like this.

http://www.amazon.com/Small-Bottle-Brush-13-Long/dp/B00274XFXQ


----------



## aqualad

Put some rice (uncook) with small amount of liquid soap and water and try that.


----------



## jinsoup

Agenesis,

The loop I had didn't run nearly as long as your's did, and I saw the same crap caked in my Enzotech fittings and XSPC compression ones too.
It's been almost one month and the Duralene is still clear as the day I installed it.
You have my deep sympathies for your loop and fittings.

Disadvantages of Duralene:

Bore is not as smooth as other brands.
Only comes in Clear
Unknown long-term dye/UV exposure limitations
Advantages:

No white gunk
Bends almost as well as Primochill LRT (1/2 x 3/4" here, see sig rig for CPU to GPU block bend)
Not as sticky to dust and fingerprints.
Only comes in Clear
Oddities, just for the record:
Small divots inside of tubing inner wall
Slightly "oily" feeling on inside turn of sharp bends... Not sure what it could be, uncertain long term effects.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aqualad*
> 
> Put some rice (uncook) with small amount of liquid soap and water and try that.


this method is used when you have a wet pcb with a lot components in it









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jinsoup*
> 
> Agenesis,
> The loop I had didn't run nearly as long as your's did, and I saw the same crap caked in my Enzotech fittings and XSPC compression ones too.
> It's been almost one month and the Duralene is still clear as the day I installed it.
> You have my deep sympathies for your loop and fittings.
> Disadvantages of Duralene:
> 
> Bore is not as smooth as other brands.
> Only comes in Clear
> Unknown long-term dye/UV exposure limitations
> Advantages:
> 
> No white gunk
> Bends almost as well as Primochill LRT (1/2 x 3/4" here, see sig rig for CPU to GPU block bend)
> Not as sticky to dust and fingerprints.
> Only comes in Clear
> Oddities, just for the record:
> Small divots inside of tubing inner wall
> Slightly "oily" feeling on inside turn of sharp bends... Not sure what it could be, uncertain long term effects.


Nice to see one more with Durelene







lets get our brothers out of PrimoChill and by the way i never see any crap stuff stuck on Bitspower fittings. i dunno about the other brands Ezon and XSPC i have seem it with kind of corrosion think and a lot gunk around it.


----------



## jinsoup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Nice to see one more with Durelene
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lets get our brothers out of PrimoChill and by the way i never see any crap stuff stuck on Bitspower fittings. i dunno about the other brands Ezon and XSPC i have seem it with kind of corrosion think and a lot gunk around it.


yea but not all of us have a fortune to spend on fittings








Do you what the oily feeling is, in the inner U-bend of each bend?


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *aqualad*
> 
> Put some rice (uncook) with small amount of liquid soap and water and try that.
> 
> 
> 
> this method is used when you have a wet pcb with a lot components in it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *jinsoup*
> 
> Agenesis,
> The loop I had didn't run nearly as long as your's did, and I saw the same crap caked in my Enzotech fittings and XSPC compression ones too.
> It's been almost one month and the Duralene is still clear as the day I installed it.
> You have my deep sympathies for your loop and fittings.
> Disadvantages of Duralene:
> 
> Bore is not as smooth as other brands.
> Only comes in Clear
> Unknown long-term dye/UV exposure limitations
> Advantages:
> 
> No white gunk
> Bends almost as well as Primochill LRT (1/2 x 3/4" here, see sig rig for CPU to GPU block bend)
> Not as sticky to dust and fingerprints.
> Only comes in Clear
> Oddities, just for the record:
> Small divots inside of tubing inner wall
> Slightly "oily" feeling on inside turn of sharp bends... Not sure what it could be, uncertain long term effects.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice to see one more with Durelene
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lets get our brothers out of PrimoChill and by the way i never see any crap stuff stuck on Bitspower fittings. i dunno about the other brands Ezon and XSPC i have seem it with kind of corrosion think and a lot gunk around it.
Click to expand...

Mine were covered in it.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Mine were covered in it.


the Ezon fittings?


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Mine were covered in it.
> 
> 
> 
> the Ezon fittings?
Click to expand...

Enzotech , my bad, lol. I cleaned them up with a Q-tip.


----------



## GoodInk

double post


----------



## Warrior1986

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agenesis*
> 
> Primochill white, 5 months. Just took it apart today.
> 
> If you go back to the first page you can see that my previous 6 month old black primochill only exhibited a little bit of this powdered plasticizer stuff...now the white tubing is just CAKED in. Oddly enough it is only on my fittings, my cpu/gpu blocks are perfect aside from a little oxidation.
> Still waiting for a census on a good brand so I can replace everything


Just got caught up for the last 50 odd posts while scrolling and my keyboard almost broke from how hard my jaw hit it after seeing these pictures. That is GOD DAMN ABSURD!!!!


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> double post


we are only allowed to post once







. JK bro, I feel sorry for you I really am.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Just got caught up for the last 50 odd posts while scrolling and my keyboard almost broke from how hard my jaw hit it after seeing these pictures. That is GOD DAMN ABSURD!!!!


I just sent a email to my bro about the problem he had with this kind of stuff, now I'm waiting for his reply you all going to be in shocking like Warrior1986.


----------



## n0n44m

haven't been able to open up the Supreme HF yet









but here is a pic of my reservoir instead ... note the color of the small bit of water left lol










again, Feser & Masterkleer 13/10 UV Blue, distilled, kill coil, all copper blocks [supreme hf & aquacomputer gtx480], ran 24/7 for a year

(replacing all nickel plated stop fittings with brass bitspower black ones to rule those out on my new build, but I'm pretty certain its the plasticizer looking at the other posts here)


----------



## Warrior1986

Your pic doesn't work.


----------



## n0n44m

works fine here... can you see other abload pics?

anyway here are some other hosts











http://imgur.com/RzXxo


http://i49.tinypic.com/ojqsde.jpg


----------



## Agenesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Agenesis : Thanks for posting your hardware


No problem.







I too would recommend everyone to stay away from primochill until they fix this issue. Fittings aren't cheap and the plasticizer seemed to have ruined all 8 of my $15 rotary fittings. Shortly after taking that image I tried again to see if the rotating would work but I just ended up scratching the paint off and the fitting is now useless.

The fittings has been sitting in vinegar and rubbing alcohol (two testing areas) since the posting but the stuff is still there and the rotary is still stuck. I even tried boiling it and it still wouldn't come off.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Just got caught up for the last 50 odd posts while scrolling and my keyboard almost broke from how hard my jaw hit it after seeing these pictures. That is GOD DAMN ABSURD!!!!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squick3n*
> 
> Ageneis that looks awful. I'm kind of shocked it isn't in your blocks. I almost looks like corrosion, but that would also show up in your blocks


Yeah my heart sank when I saw it. I also thought it was corrosion at first but my loop only contained copper/nickel so I took the thing apart and saw that the plasticizer only built up on the o-rings and the fittings.

I'll be rebuilding my loop soon with either Norprene tubing or this high end tygon silver tubing . The tygon silver tubing I'm confident won't have plasticizer because my friend has been running it for the past 2 years and I made him take apart his loop just yesterday and it was all clean, the only downside is that it isn't pretty and it cost more than regular tubing ($15 for 20 feet primochll vs $80 for 20 feet silver tygon).


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agenesis*
> 
> No problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I too would recommend everyone to stay away from primochill until they fix this issue. Fittings aren't cheap and the plasticizer seemed to have ruined all 8 of my $15 rotary fittings. Shortly after taking that image I tried again to see if the rotating would work but I just ended up scratching the paint off and the fitting is now useless.
> The fittings has been sitting in vinegar and rubbing alcohol (two testing areas) since the posting but the stuff is still there and the rotary is still stuck. I even tried boiling it and it still wouldn't come off.
> Yeah my heart sank when I saw it. I also thought it was corrosion at first but my loop only contained copper/nickel so I took the thing apart and saw that the plasticizer only built up on the o-rings and the fittings.
> I'll be rebuilding my loop soon with either Norprene tubing or this high end tygon silver tubing . The tygon silver tubing I'm confident won't have plasticizer because my friend has been running it for the past 2 years and I made him take apart his loop just yesterday and it was all clean, the only downside is that it isn't pretty and it cost more than regular tubing ($15 for 20 feet primochll vs $80 for 20 feet silver tygon).


What makes you think Primochill will fix this issue at all? Primochill has given us the cold shoulder here and in our emails! I am having trouble finding the Tygon Silver Antimicrobial Tubing in 3/8" ID x 5/8" OD size, does Tygon make any that size?


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agenesis*
> 
> No problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I too would recommend everyone to stay away from primochill until they fix this issue. Fittings aren't cheap and the plasticizer seemed to have ruined all 8 of my $15 rotary fittings. Shortly after taking that image I tried again to see if the rotating would work but I just ended up scratching the paint off and the fitting is now useless.
> The fittings has been sitting in vinegar and rubbing alcohol (two testing areas) since the posting but the stuff is still there and the rotary is still stuck. I even tried boiling it and it still wouldn't come off.
> Yeah my heart sank when I saw it. I also thought it was corrosion at first but my loop only contained copper/nickel so I took the thing apart and saw that the plasticizer only built up on the o-rings and the fittings.
> I'll be rebuilding my loop soon with either *Norprene tubing* or this high end *tygon silver tubing* . The tygon silver tubing I'm confident won't have plasticizer because my friend has been running it for the past 2 years and I made him take apart his loop just yesterday and it was all clean, the only downside is that it isn't pretty and it cost more than regular tubing ($15 for 20 feet primochll vs $80 for 20 feet silver tygon).


This is not going to happen









If some day i decide to move on in one of those tubing i will sleeve them all because they are ugly.









*Corrosion* read this article this was my friend hardware. when corrosion gets in that's no way to get this out. This is a good read








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> *What makes you think Primochill will fix this issue at all?* Primochill has given us the cold shoulder here and in our emails! I am having trouble finding the Tygon Silver Antimicrobial Tubing in 3/8" ID x 5/8" OD size, does Tygon make any that size?


*This* sadly but is true.

here is all tygon tubing sizes Tygon Tubing by Saint-Gobain Performance Plastics

Hey guys i made a promise in take some photos this weekend but i failed







had long week with family i may doing it tomorrow. i just need a bit a free time but family comes first wife and two kids







but in verbal saying to all of you my Both loop with Durelene still holding so good no cloud and still shine since day one







. I just got a PM from Mayhem and hes going send to me some of they products for testing purpose. so my recomendation still stand on Durelene very cheap stuff and seems to hold good and Dye get always Mayhems.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> *Corrosion* read this article this was my friend hardware. when corrosion gets in that's no way to get this out. This is a good read
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


You forgot the link









This made me think of Martin's write up on corrosion.
http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/01/24/corrosion-explored/


----------



## FearXI

How has Tygon B-44-4X 3/8" ID (5/8" OD) - "Non-Porous" Smooth Tubing held up against the clouding?
I see the silver seems to be good but I want clear tubing.


----------



## opt33

Tygon silver has plasticizer free inner bore and you dont have to worry about discoloration since it is silver color.

I have used both tygon b44-3x and b44-4x, both have plasticizer but supposedly inner bore is coated with something that slows (not stops) plasticizer leach. I did not see any significant plasticizer in a year of using tygon b44-4x, but it does slightly yellow over time, but may have had a fine dusting of plasticizer over long time. It has a low water absorption, so clouding is minimal but temp dependent. I emailed tygon regarding Duralene and beverage b44-4x, and they said if worried about plasticizer leach, the beverage tubing and duralene in time may have the same issue since both have plasticizer, just to lesser degree than tygon 3603, and they suggested one of the plasticizer free tubings, but that is kind of what you would expect. The plasticizer free tubings are much more expensive, like tygon E1000 (which is soft but compressible) and tygon 2375. Both about $4 per foot. Dont know if the the E1000 would have issues since so easily compressible or maybe fine, and dont know if the 2375 is too stiff.

I have some of the 2 year old primochill colored, back when it had less plasticizer issues, but on closer inspection, after 1.5yrs use, it does have some slight dusting of plasticizer, no where near the newer crap they are putting out however. I will probably buy couple feet of 2375 and E1000, then decide which I like most for my next build. Tygon 2375 water absorption is one of the lowest so should cloud the least (and has no plasticizer to leach).


----------



## squick3n

The weekend I tear down my loop to post some pictures and the internet goes out.









My loop had a mix of Primochill black tubing and Masterkleer clear tubing. Total of one month up for the Primochill, and 6 weeks for the Masterkleer. I'm actually kind of confused by the results. The Primochill definitely went bad. But there was also a white substance on the Masterkleer. Previously when mixed with some Primochill that also went bad, this same Masterkleer tubing stayed clear.

I am able to wipe off the powder stuff from inside the Masterkleer, while the Primochill is completely beyond "cleaning up". The inside of the black tubing is now white, for good. So it's possible that what I found in the Masterkleer is just the residue from the Primochill. I also have a ring of the power at the water line in my reservoir. but again, this is easily wiped off. The water itself was still perfectly clear.. And also strangle, my fittings and blocks have no visible sign of the substance. Pictures below


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






http://imgur.com/KdUk6




http://imgur.com/1HLRX




http://imgur.com/Gl2mZ




http://imgur.com/SBPEO




http://imgur.com/UqyK7


----------



## n0n44m

so the Supreme HF pics I promised

*tubing* : Masterkleer & Feser , both UV blue 10/13
*blocks*: Supreme HF & AquagraFX 480
*coolant*: distilled + kill coil
*other*: filter in the same loop but I didn't clean that thing very often ... ow and 4 UV ccfl's in the case?

*ran 24/7 for around 12 months
*
*temps were hardly affected, but flow rate was significantly impacted
*

Supreme HF Top










Supreme HF inside










good news is that cleaning this block was pretty easy; heat a bowl of vinegar in the microwave, drop the base in for about 5 minutes, then rinse it off with distilled and it should be clean.

also interesting were these two fittings; one heavily affected by plasticizer the other one relatively clean. Both were next to each other on a Y-fitting at the exit of my reservoir; the clean one was connected to the bleed port and thus had only standing water in it, whereas the other one was feeding my pumps and had water moving through 24/7. Guess flow does make a difference


----------



## Capt Proton

We need to keep in focus the crappy support offered by Primochill in this whole affair. Although not the only company with issues, they were the very fastest off the mark trying to blame everything but their tubing, even when evidence was provided to show otherwise. False promises, little in the line of apologies or real explanations, they deserve only our contempt.
Use the power we all have. Do not buy their products. There are plenty of companies out there making what we need to water cool. We do not need another company that treats us with contempt and responds to us as if we are idiots.
Boycott PRIMOCHILL!


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> We need to keep in focus the crappy support offered by Primochill in this whole affair. Although not the only company with issues, they were the very fastest off the mark trying to blame everything but their tubing, even when evidence was provided to show otherwise. False promises, little in the line of apologies or real explanations, they deserve only our contempt.
> Use the power we all have. Do not buy their products. There are plenty of companies out there making what we need to water cool. We do not need another company that treats us with contempt and responds to us as if we are idiots.
> Boycott PRIMOCHILL!


Oh come on... I understand your frustration with the whole thing since i already have 8 m of primochill tubing with half of it in my loop, BUT I believe that we have to focus on what is best and promote it, rather than spending a single second of our time to boycott/ blame anything.

What i mean is that at this point, we have to support all the efforts made to find a solution, give feedback of our findings (photos etc) rather than loosing time blaming the "bad" guys


----------



## Capt Proton

You and I can't really "solve" anything. We do not make tubing, we buy product and use it. It is up to the companies to decide if they are really going to stand by their products, or just feign a degree of dismay at the poor performance and keep on taking our money with no real improvement. All we can really do is vote with our wallets, and don't allow them to get away with it. Consumers are the ones that really have the power, we just seldom exercise it. We usually just follow along like a flock of sheep.
So, "come on", lets have something in "common". Lets ensure we keep the companies on their toes by telling it like it is and stop trying to "all get along".


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> You and I can't really "solve" anything. We do not make tubing, we buy product and use it. It is up to the companies to decide if they are really going to stand by their products, or just feign a degree of dismay at the poor performance and keep on taking our money with no real improvement. All we can really do is vote with our wallets, and don't allow them to get away with it. Consumers are the ones that really have the power, we just seldom exercise it. We usually just follow along like a flock of sheep.
> So, "come on", lets have something in "common". Lets ensure we keep the companies on their toes by telling it like it is and stop trying to "all get along".


Of course you are right...

Certainly, I - the consumer cannot solve this issue, I just can use whatever is currently the best solution tube wise. So, instead of spending time to boycott something, i prefer to spend time to help even a little to find what is currently the best solution and support it!

Obviously, i fully agree with your concerns and even feel the same disapointment with all tube producers who have not done their job as they should. I just have a different perspective on how to deal with this issue









For example, I prefer to follow and give feedback here:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1272759/testing-tubing
or here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1218288/please-contribute-ocn-wc-tubing-database

Of course, somebody who has lots of time can follow both ways of dealing with this issue


----------



## Buska103

hmtph.

What's a good and safe tubing now? I want to go underwater very soon, my original plan was Primochill, but after all this it's just not gonna happen. I want either black or white tubing, 1/2ID 3/4OD, maybe even a mix - is Tygon still plasticizer free?


----------



## Falknir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buska103*
> 
> hmtph.
> What's a good and safe tubing now? I want to go underwater very soon, my original plan was Primochill, but after all this it's just not gonna happen. I want either black or white tubing, 1/2ID 3/4OD, maybe even a mix - is Tygon still plasticizer free?


Polyurethane ether-based (various opaque/transparent), e.g. Superthane Ether (transparent, Polyurethane ether), Tygothane C-544-A (transparent, Polyurethane ether), Urebrade (transparent mesh, Polyurethane ether), Surethane (colored opaque/transparent polyurethane ether) tubing; Norprene (opaque white/black, of sufficient working pressure) tubing; Copper or Brass tubing; and Silicone (opaque/translucent white) tubing. In addition. Polyvinyl chloride/PVC tubing that is plasticizer free on the inner-bore or in it's entirety, e.g. Tygon's Silver Antimicrobial (translucent silver), Tygon 2375 (clear), etc.

Durelene still contains plasticizers and manufactured by the same folks that handle Tygon, i.e. Saint-Gobain. The formulation is roughly similar to Tygon R3603 and eventually will plasticizer leech and cloud. However, some folks say they had better luck with it.

Also, Silicone tubing slips onto and off fittings easier with a higher tendency to tear then other tubing; make sure to buy good fittings and take extra care with it's use.


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jinsoup*
> 
> Unfortunately for the comment by mybadomen, this phenomenon doesnt hold true for all tubing.
> This is what the tubing looked like after 2-3 weeks:
> 
> and up close:
> 
> Here is the Primochill LRT 1/2" x 3/4" after just under 1 months use with pure distilled:
> 
> Same tubing cut open after under 1 month of usage:
> 
> You can "rub" off the white stuff which ends up being a powdery substance, "plasticizer" most of us call it.... I dont think you can rub it off very well when it's in your loop. This stuff will build up in your expensive radiator, waterblock, pump and nozzles as it did in mine.
> How do you rub it off when your tubing is not cut open?
> I usually hate to recommend people not to buy a product due to just my own experience, however,
> DONT BUY PRIMOCHILL LRT it is baddie.
> _________
> Tygon 2001 series seems to be plasticizer free, but it's Really expensive.
> I haven't had any clouding with this $0.69/ft Duralene stuff and it's been half a month. (LRT cloouded in a matter of days)


Yeah no do the same thing with any other choice tubing its you will get the same results. I have tested Not in a beaker but in a Overclocked Bench running Prime at 65+c and the results were the same with any brand i tried. They all turned white. The ones that are showing the green stuff flush your rads and look what comes out . Green corrosion that's another issue. You can read through this thread and see every brand tubing has the issue. But the issue is clouded tubing with crystal clear water. For those that have stuff in your blocks thats something different all together. Copper sulphate will destroy tubing really fast at temps between 45 and 60 c really fast. So 1 Its not just Primochill and you guys really really think that all of a sudden every tubing in the world went bad at the same time a couple years ago? I barely read this thread anymore never mind hearing the results of me newest testing that has nothing to do with tubing. I have see multiple Posts in this thread that was user error that has nothing to even do with this whole issue at hand.

Hmm that green stuff in a few of the recent loops looks just like this dont it?



Know what that is? Its not from tubing its what comes out of a brand new rad if you flush it ! I see this build up in many of the loops shown .

Also the white stuff on the tubing wipes off by barely touching it . But i seen it posted it doesn't wipe off?



Are you running Dead Water Biocide. ? If so that's the end of your tubing . testing and said this months ago with many different brands. High temps would last 1 day.

Their is No good tubing in the world right now or there is another problem causing this,Seriously trash on Primochill go by your new great tubing and cry when you get the same results. I have already tested at minimum 300 feet of tubing and just got another 55 feet 2 days ago.

I am testing something completely different now and the problem is known and just waiting on the right fix for it.

believe it or Dont but either way thinking all tubing in the world went bad at the same time is just ridiculous . I love hearing Primochill tubing is the worse you can get a month more with this other brand. Lol well what does that say. Tubing is not the issue. Primochill is not the issue.Tygon is not the issue etc.

This thread started out a really good thread but diffidently went way down hill and way off from the problem.

Take Care and only reason i cant stand reading tubing over and over again is because i think thats the #1 reason we still have this issue. Its time to start looking at other things besides the tubing . Also if going to bash a company Bash them all because i haven't found a tubing a couldn't turn white in under 5 days. Any one thinks they have the magic tubing send me a couple feet and i will test it. Also my test setup has a huge inline filter also to keep the testing fair for all brands.

I want to be able to run clear tubing also . Badly !

And as for Companies not doing anything about it is just crazy. I know Primochill's Owner and know what they are going through right now trying to solve this issue and of course you all see Mayhem working hard also to solve this. Although i don't agree with some of what he has said only because ive been through those tests 1,000 times already but and running in a real overclocked test System vs a jar. but either way it shows that's just 2 right their that are working very hard for us. And you guys must know that they read this thread?

Anyway take care guys not angry or anything just trying to keep things on track a bit so we can have a solution, You can try and tell me 1,000,000 times all the tubing in the world went bad .Lol but sorry not buying it.

*MybadOmen*


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> We need to keep in focus the crappy support offered by Primochill in this whole affair. Although not the only company with issues, they were the very fastest off the mark trying to blame everything but their tubing, even when evidence was provided to show otherwise. False promises, little in the line of apologies or real explanations, they deserve only our contempt.
> Use the power we all have. Do not buy their products. There are plenty of companies out there making what we need to water cool. We do not need another company that treats us with contempt and responds to us as if we are idiots.
> Boycott PRIMOCHILL!


And posts like this is excactly why you have no idea what Companies are doing to solve the issue's. If you were part of the solution im sure they would gladly speak with you. Any of the companies working on the issue. This is how the companies make their money.You really think they are just sitting back doing nothing?


----------



## opt33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> And posts like this is excactly why you have no idea what Companies are doing to solve the issue's. If you were part of the solution im sure they would gladly speak with you. Any of the companies working on the issue. This is how the companies make their money.You really think they are just sitting back doing nothing?


The fact is, IT IS THE TUBING. All tubing that has plasticizer is going to leach, given time and temp. The amount of plasticizer in the tubing can vary from small percentage to very high. St-gobains which makes the tubing clearly stated in an email that all tubing that has plasticizer is going to cloud/leach in time. They suggested if you want clear tubing use plasticizer free tubing and use low water absorbent tubing, ie like tygon 2375. Only issue it is more expensive and doesnt come in different colors.

Fixing the problem is easy, if you know the owner have primochill offer plasticizer free tubing or inner bore plasticizer free tubing. If they are not doing one of those, then they are not going to solve the problem. At best they could lessen the plasticizer leach like it was 2 years ago, but at this point since people are going to be actively looking for it, even that may not be satisfactory. The first company to make plasticizer free tubing would quickly become the preferred tubing vendor.

It is true that plasticizer leach in primochill has gotten worse over past 2 years. My 2 year old tubing, and i am using copper sulfate btw, has only small amounts of plasticizer dusting, much less than newer batches in pics. But leach is going to occur in all tubing with plasticizer, have seen it in all over past 10 years, and it is certainly not a new problem. I have used over years almost every type of coolant, and just distilled, only thing that matters is plasticizer and specs of tubing and temps.


----------



## Buska103

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/tyano1id3odi.html
vs
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/tysiantu1id3.html

(neoprene vs silver antimicrobacterial)
any suggestions?


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> Yeah no do the same thing with any other choice tubing its you will get the same results. I have tested Not in a beaker but in a Overclocked Bench running Prime at 65+c and the results were the same with any brand i tried. They all turned white. The ones that are showing the green stuff flush your rads and look what comes out . Green corrosion that's another issue. You can read through this thread and see every brand tubing has the issue. But the issue is clouded tubing with crystal clear water. For those that have stuff in your blocks thats something different all together. Copper sulphate will destroy tubing really fast at temps between 45 and 60 c really fast. So 1 Its not just Primochill and you guys really really think that all of a sudden every tubing in the world went bad at the same time a couple years ago? I barely read this thread anymore never mind hearing the results of me newest testing that has nothing to do with tubing. I have see multiple Posts in this thread that was user error that has nothing to even do with this whole issue at hand.
> Hmm that green stuff in a few of the recent loops looks just like this dont it?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Know what that is? Its not from tubing its what comes out of a brand new rad if you flush it ! I see this build up in many of the loops shown .
> Also the white stuff on the tubing wipes off by barely touching it . But i seen it posted it doesn't wipe off?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you running Dead Water Biocide. ? If so that's the end of your tubing . testing and said this months ago with many different brands. High temps would last 1 day.
> Their is No good tubing in the world right now or there is another problem causing this,Seriously trash on Primochill go by your new great tubing and cry when you get the same results. I have already tested at minimum 300 feet of tubing and just got another 55 feet 2 days ago.
> *1- I am testing something completely different now and the problem is known and just waiting on the right fix for it.*
> believe it or Dont but either way thinking all tubing in the world went bad at the same time is just ridiculous . *2 - I love hearing Primochill tubing is the worse you can get a month* more with this other brand. Lol well what does that say. Tubing is not the issue. Primochill is not the issue.Tygon is not the issue etc.
> *3 - This thread started out a really good thread but diffidently went way down hill and way off from the problem*.
> Take Care and only reason i cant stand reading tubing over and over again is because i think thats the #1 reason we still have this issue. *4 - Its time to start looking at other things besides the tubing* . Also if going to bash a company Bash them all because *5 - i haven't found a tubing a couldn't turn white in under 5 days*. Any one thinks they have the magic tubing send me a couple feet and i will test it. Also my test setup has a huge inline filter also to keep the testing fair for all brands.
> I want to be able to run clear tubing also . Badly !
> And as for Companies not doing anything about it is just crazy. *6 - I know Primochill's Owner* and know what they are going through right now trying to solve this issue and of course you all see *7 - Mayhem working hard also to solve this*. Although i don't agree with some of what he has said only because ive been through *8 - those tests 1,000 times already but and running in a real overclocked test System vs a jar*. but either way it shows that's just 2 right their that are working very hard for us. And you guys must know that they read this thread?
> Anyway take care guys not angry or anything just trying to keep things on track a bit so we can have a solution, You can try and tell me 1,000,000 times all the tubing in the world went bad .Lol but sorry not buying it.
> *MybadOmen*


*1 -* I love to know what you are testing and how you are making your testing.

*2 -* It is the worse tubing in the market now this is for sure.

*3 -* Why its make you to say that? because now its spread more and more and attract more and member here with worse problem than when the thread started?

*4 -* other things like what? Nickel ? Plating? as far i know cooper is cooper and plating is plating. This formula wont change and never will.

*5 -* i did found one it may be not the answer but its still holding up so good. *Bench Tubing test Distilled water + Kill Coil + Mayhems Red Dye* and *Main RiG Balck Hawk Down Distilled water + Kill Coil* stil look the same since day *1* Tubing is Durelene Clear I almost forgot to tell what tubing are used for testing.almost 3 weeks and looks the same.

*6 -* It's good or its bad that you know the *Primochill's Owner*? why they never show up in this thread? I think i know the answer, I think they don't know how to handle this big mess that just show up in a TON here and by the way OCN has almost any type of Vendor REP why they never show up? dunno the answer too. badly.

*7 -* No.! you are wrong. Mayhem working hard to show and support all water cooler owners that hes product has nothing to do with cloud and white powdering inside the tubes and in the blocks like
Primochill's Dye Bomb's has affected thousands of WC owners around the globe. Crystallizing inside of anything you think of in the loop. Mayhems are the only Dye in market that has been supporting the community and proven for all of us how they products are the BEST.

*8 -* It is only you that have a real system here? you should think before you saying things. My rig won't count my bench test won't count? others Members RiG here won't count? what is count for a REAL overclocked test System? your RiG or a $5000 RiG with the best thing in the market? All the WC Blocks, Rad, RES and Pump are used in REAL overclocked test System and chear overclocked test System around the OCN and Globe.

I'm not angry I'm here just to help our community and just point some of your words mentioned above.
PS: i will have today more new pics of my result with Durelene withg Dye and Pure Distilled water.
*skyn3t
Black Hawk Down*


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> Yeah no do the same thing with any other choice tubing its you will get the same results. I have tested Not in a beaker but in a Overclocked Bench running Prime at 65+c and the results were the same with any brand i tried. They all turned white. The ones that are showing the green stuff flush your rads and look what comes out . Green corrosion that's another issue. You can read through this thread and see every brand tubing has the issue. But the issue is clouded tubing with crystal clear water. For those that have stuff in your blocks thats something different all together. Copper sulphate will destroy tubing really fast at temps between 45 and 60 c really fast. So 1 Its not just Primochill and you guys really really think that all of a sudden every tubing in the world went bad at the same time a couple years ago? I barely read this thread anymore never mind hearing the results of me newest testing that has nothing to do with tubing. I have see multiple Posts in this thread that was user error that has nothing to even do with this whole issue at hand.
> Hmm that green stuff in a few of the recent loops looks just like this dont it?
> 
> Know what that is? Its not from tubing its what comes out of a brand new rad if you flush it ! I see this build up in many of the loops shown .
> Also the white stuff on the tubing wipes off by barely touching it . But i seen it posted it doesn't wipe off?
> 
> Are you running Dead Water Biocide. ? If so that's the end of your tubing . testing and said this months ago with many different brands. High temps would last 1 day.
> Their is No good tubing in the world right now or there is another problem causing this,Seriously trash on Primochill go by your new great tubing and cry when you get the same results. I have already tested at minimum 300 feet of tubing and just got another 55 feet 2 days ago.
> I am testing something completely different now and the problem is known and just waiting on the right fix for it.
> believe it or Dont but either way thinking all tubing in the world went bad at the same time is just ridiculous . I love hearing Primochill tubing is the worse you can get a month more with this other brand. Lol well what does that say. Tubing is not the issue. Primochill is not the issue.Tygon is not the issue etc.
> This thread started out a really good thread but diffidently went way down hill and way off from the problem.
> Take Care and only reason i cant stand reading tubing over and over again is because i think thats the #1 reason we still have this issue. Its time to start looking at other things besides the tubing . Also if going to bash a company Bash them all because i haven't found a tubing a couldn't turn white in under 5 days. Any one thinks they have the magic tubing send me a couple feet and i will test it. Also my test setup has a huge inline filter also to keep the testing fair for all brands.
> I want to be able to run clear tubing also . Badly !
> And as for Companies not doing anything about it is just crazy. I know Primochill's Owner and know what they are going through right now trying to solve this issue and of course you all see Mayhem working hard also to solve this. Although i don't agree with some of what he has said only because ive been through those tests 1,000 times already but and running in a real overclocked test System vs a jar. but either way it shows that's just 2 right their that are working very hard for us. And you guys must know that they read this thread?
> Anyway take care guys not angry or anything just trying to keep things on track a bit so we can have a solution, You can try and tell me 1,000,000 times all the tubing in the world went bad .Lol but sorry not buying it.
> *MybadOmen*


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buska103*
> 
> http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/tyano1id3odi.html
> vs
> http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/tysiantu1id3.html
> (neoprene vs silver antimicrobacterial)
> any suggestions?


both tubing is ugle as hell







. but you do have a option sleeve them all







than you will good to go.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agenesis*
> 
> Haven't been on this thread since January, can anyone tell me what the "go-to" brand for tubing is now?
> 
> Just looking for white in particular. Is primochill still good?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Agenesis*
> 
> Haven't been on this thread since January, can anyone tell me what the "go-to" brand for tubing is now?
> Just looking for white in particular. Is primochill still good?
> 
> 
> 
> There is no "go-to" brand for tubing right now. That's the whole point of this thread. And AFAIK, Primochill is tied with R3603 as being the worst tubing around.
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agenesis*
> 
> Primochill white, 5 months. Just took it apart today.
> 
> 
> 
> If you go back to the first page you can see that my previous 6 month old black primochill only exhibited a little bit of this powdered plasticizer stuff...now the white tubing is just CAKED in. Oddly enough it is only on my fittings, my cpu/gpu blocks are perfect aside from a little oxidation.
> 
> Still waiting for a census on a good brand so I can replace everything


Well I was gonna speak up about your wanting White when I saw this. Have you tried the Feser brand? Not sure how well it holds up against kinks but it's gotta be better than this. 5 months? That green tint in your fittings looks like the green tint inside my tubing from the Copper EK block. but that's a lot of build up of Plasticizer. What additives are you running if any?









~Ceadder


----------



## mybadomen

If your going to blame tubing as you say all tubing in the world suddenly is no longer good. Why blame 1 company when its been shown in this thread alone tons of companies clouding? and you ask what kind of testing have i been doing???? Have you read this thread because its all posted here in it. Ok today im going to say Mastekleer is a bad company and terrible because there tubing clouds. Oh wait Tygon clouds also so maybe we will say Tygon is a terrible company because there tubing either clouds or turns yellow.. Seriously something is causing this . Tubing in the Past did not do this! I have ran Tap water in old loops years ago and the only thing that ever happened was algae grew but NO clouding. This is not the tubing again i say it. And there is no good tubing . There is tubing that can prevent clouding for a longer period of time but there is still no fix to the whole problem. I like Tygon Tubing I Like Masterkleer tubing i like Tygon tubing but every one of them shows clouding . I just dont get why you guys pick one company and slam them when i know for a fact they are working hard to please you guys. I have seen white tubing but i never seen any kind of stuff clogging anything. Thats something totally different .

I think aiming people to different brand tubing's is just giving them false hope because the fact is all tubing clouds right now. Some longer then others.

But honestly this is basically page 1 of this thread. It never goes anywhere just loops in circles. Lol.


----------



## opt33

Again this is not a new problem or confined to Primochill tubing, no one is claiming it is. 10 years ago up until 5 years ago, plasticizer leach was in all builds, look at mine from 2007, first pic, tygon 3603, the king of plasticizer leach, my loop after just 3 months. The fluid looks cloudy, but it was not, it is just white precipitate lining the tubing, this is with distilled water, pt nuke, 10% clear antifreeze. The plasticizer wipes right off, some just cleaned it off with gun bore cleaners, then often it would stay clear after that.

Second pic is my rebuild 2007-2008 after ~ 6 months with tygon 43x beverage tubing which is supposedly coated with something that slows plasticizer leach, exact same coolant (10% AF/pt nuke), except added blue die G11. This loop stayed crystal clear, also did not gunk up my blocks.

People are angry at primochill because the last few years it was the only colored tubing that had minimal plasticizer leach, so it was THE recommended tubing by most. Now it looks same as all the others. And that is a manufacturing issue, not something can be solved on our end.

But yes, all colored tubing now sucks the same, primochill is now no better or worse than others. And there maybe some slight variability batch to batch or between brands, but now they all have same problem.

It amazes me that no company has introduced a plasticizer free colored tubing. Tygon silver is inner bore plasticizer free, so maintains good flexibility that watercoolers want + no plasticizer leach through inner bore. Maybe make some UV colored tubing with inner bore free?


----------



## wermad

I'm sticking with color tube. I don't want to spend more time on crappy clear tube. Besides, i have a helix res so I'm no longer needing dyes for my res (let alone clear tube).


----------



## opt33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> I'm sticking with color tube. I don't want to spend more time on crappy clear tube. Besides, i have a helix res so I'm no longer needing dyes for my res (let alone clear tube).


Many will stick with colored tubing including myself for now, I still have 2 yr old primochill uv blue in mine, and only has feint dusting of plasticizer leach, which i could clean at this point and probably wouldnt come back.

Which is why any company that sells colored tubing with plasticizer free inner bore would get most peoples business.


----------



## skyn3t

Here Am one more time with more result of Durelene.As you guys know i had this new tubing running for 2 weeks, 5 days = 19 Days ago post # 796 of 950. Like a promised a few post back new photos with result's

*Result test of
Black Hawk Down* this is my main RiG.



*Durelene PVC tubing 7/16in. ID 5/8in* *+ Distilled Water + Silver Kill Coil*













No Cloud and Plasticizes Found in this Tubing.

*Result test of
RiG Plasticizer Test Bench* This system has been running for 1 week, 4 days ago = 13 days post #863 of 950

*Durelene PVC tubing 7/16in. ID 5/8in* *+ Distilled Water + Silver Kill Coil+Mayhems Red Dye*

*Plasticizer Test Bench ( as know HTPC 24/7 )*









*Draining the Loop just to check the cloud buildup







*



I had write down my ocn nick in a white paper. can you read it ?













*Now with Mayhems ReD Dye* can you still read it ?

















As you guys can see and read very clear none of cloud and plasticizes powder was found and are no visible in any part of my tubing. Its still clear like day 1.


----------



## squick3n

Thanks for the updates skyn3t. I'll also be installing some Durelene and hope it goes better. If not, I'll have to look in to all new fittings to go to 1/2-3/4 Tygon Tubing


----------



## wermad

+1 Sky. I'm going to look for some Durelene tube to test out.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squick3n*
> 
> Thanks for the updates skyn3t. I'll also be installing some Durelene and hope it goes better. If not, I'll have to look in to all new fittings to go to 1/2-3/4 Tygon Tubing


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> +1 Sky. I'm going to look for some Durelene tube to test out.










it does looks more promised than any other low price tubing out there so at least it holding up so good and my testing still running I'm waiting in some products to arrive this way i will have more things to run for testing purpose. I will be update all my test's once week for some real result's.


----------



## Ovrclck

Never fear! Durelene is here!








I'll be replacing my primochill this weekend, will post my findings. Shout out to sidewinder for the fast shipping!


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BGKris*
> 
> Never fear! Durelene is here!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be replacing my primochill this weekend, will post my findings. Shout out to sidewinder for the fast shipping!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Hey BGKris, Good Job Bud. Nice,smooth and clear. Make sure you do flush all your hardware very good

just in case
tools
Paper Towels
Vinegar ( be careful when and where you do use it )
Toothbrush
Distilled Water

Cleaning:
Yes you must initially clean all your blocks and parts, new or old. Cleaning takes a fair amount of patience. Remember, the less you rush in setting up your loop, the less problem?s you?ll have with it.

Link on the Effects of washing copper with Vinegar.

Update: On NEW Equiptment, all you need to do is rince the blocks with distilled water. Make sure the blocks are particle free.

On the Radiator, you need to heat the distilled water. The water does not need to be boiling, but it needs to be somewhere between that and hot. Heat the water to a boil, and let it sit for 2 min before you pour into the radiator.

Make sure you give the radiator a good shake, but be careful. The Radiator WILL GET HOT VERY QUICKLY with hot liquid inside it. After that give it a good rince with cold distilled and its good to go.

And no deionized is not distilled, and drinking water is not distilled. There is water labeled ?Distilled? that you need to purchase.


----------



## mybadomen

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Here Am one more time with more result of Durelene.As you guys know i had this new tubing running for 2 weeks, 5 days = 19 Days ago post # 796 of 950. Like a promised a few post back new photos with result's
> *Result test of
> Black Hawk Down* this is my main RiG.
> 
> *Durelene PVC tubing 7/16in. ID 5/8in* *+ Distilled Water + Silver Kill Coil*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No Cloud and Plasticizes Found in this Tubing.
> *Result test of
> RiG Plasticizer Test Bench* This system has been running for 1 week, 4 days ago = 13 days post #863 of 950
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *Durelene PVC tubing 7/16in. ID 5/8in* *+ Distilled Water + Silver Kill Coil+Mayhems Red Dye*
> *Plasticizer Test Bench ( as know HTPC 24/7 )*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Draining the Loop just to check the cloud buildup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> I had write down my ocn nick in a white paper. can you read it ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Now with Mayhems ReD Dye* can you still read it ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you guys can see and read very clear none of cloud and plasticizes powder was found and are no visible in any part of my tubing. Its still clear like day 1.






Looks good and Nice Motherboard. Still only time will tell but great results so far. Also thanks you for the testing. Appreciated here. Also please keep us updated.

Thanks again Mate.

MybadOmen


----------



## Ovrclck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> [/SPOILER]
> Hey BGKris, Good Job Bud. Nice,smooth and clear. Make sure you do flush all your hardware very good
> just in case
> tools
> Paper Towels
> Vinegar ( be careful when and where you do use it )
> Toothbrush
> Distilled Water
> Cleaning:
> Yes you must initially clean all your blocks and parts, new or old. Cleaning takes a fair amount of patience. Remember, the less you rush in setting up your loop, the less problem?s you?ll have with it.
> 
> Link on the Effects of washing copper with Vinegar.
> Update: On NEW Equiptment, all you need to do is rince the blocks with distilled water. Make sure the blocks are particle free.
> On the Radiator, you need to heat the distilled water. The water does not need to be boiling, but it needs to be somewhere between that and hot. Heat the water to a boil, and let it sit for 2 min before you pour into the radiator.
> Make sure you give the radiator a good shake, but be careful. The Radiator WILL GET HOT VERY QUICKLY with hot liquid inside it. After that give it a good rince with cold distilled and its good to go.
> And no deionized is not distilled, and drinking water is not distilled. There is water labeled ?Distilled? that you need to purchase.


Thanks man! I'm not really looking forward to taking out the rx480. It was such a pain to put in. lol


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agenesis*
> 
> Link on the Effects of washing copper with Vinegar.


Hate to be the objective voice of reason but the linked experiment is 100% absofrackinglutely false.

If he wanted to do a proper experiment then he should put a piece of copper in the jar. Pour HOT vinegar into it shake it up good for how ever long you would shake a standard size 360 Radiator. Then take close ups of the copper surface using a digital Microscope.

Who the hell leaves vinegar in their Radiator for an hour at a time? NOBODY!; that's who!









Didn't perform a rinse either from what I can see of the thread. And all these people goin on about how ACIDIC vinegar is? If you're using a 100% vinegar solution like Wine or Balsamic vinegar straight from the waste vat then yeah you don't want to use it. But standard white distilled vinegar is diluted with Distilled water down to ~5% by volume give or take ~1/100th of a percent or something along those lines. So basically you're cleaning out your system with Distilled water more than vinegar.

If you're worried about the acidic content of the vinegar, that's why you flush with 50/50 and then 100% distilled for twice the amount of any vinegar you use. Any vinegar molecules should be rendered inert by that amount of Distilled. If you still are leery run the last flush through tubing using a 5gallon bucket as a Reservoir

Oh and in case you weren't aware of it Ketchup is more acidic than vinegar and depending on the brand can contain SALT. Ala Heinz 57. Tomatoes are acidic. Heinz contains(in this order): *Tomato concentrate from red ripe tomatoes, DISTILLED VINEGAR, HFC Syrup, SALT, spice, Onion Powder, Natural Flavoring.*

Does anyone see where WATER is listed here? But yet people say use Ketchup to clean your blocks and that Vinegar is bad for Copper or any other metal besides Aluminum?









Be leery, I understand the need to be leery. But if you can't use vinegar then forget Ketchup. It's at least twice as acidic as vinegar. At least Heinz 57 is. But what I find interesting here is people say "Use Ketchup" but aren't forthcoming with which they use. If you're like me and Heinz 57 is what you generally have in the cupboard that's what you reach for without a second thought.

Also happen to have Del Monte 100% natural on hand. Same ingredients except they add garlic powder at the end of the list.

If you can't use vinegar why the hell are you using and or recommending Ketchup?









Vinegar when used sparingly won't hurt a damned thing. I use vinegar to clean the kitchen all the time. It's safer than bleach and it's non-toxic. Kills any germ that I know of and it's safe for marble, granite, and tile countertops. I can see that a lot of you have zero kitchen experience or are just beginning to find your way round one unsupervised.









If you can eat white distilled vinegar on your fish an chips, I seriously doubt a 15minute flush with the stuff is going to hurt any metal it comes into contact with.

The level of disinformation in that thread based on a faulty outcome of a badly run experiment simply astounds me. Who flushes their radiator for hours?























~Ceadder


----------



## Ganf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> Looks good and Nice Motherboard. Still only time will tell but great results so far. Also thanks you for the testing. Appreciated here. Also please keep us updated.
> Thanks again Mate.
> MybadOmen


I think you're missing something MBO. Mainly that most of us noticed your original thread about flushing a system and have acted upon it. The reason everyone is getting after primochill is because of the degree of clouding and caking on that tubing is bar none. It absolutely is the worst of the worst and it's a company that specifically manufactures tubing for the use in Watercooled computers first, industrial applications second. Half of the other brands just make the stuff for people to use for whatever purpose they deem fit, and the other half of the companies aren't nearly as bad as primochill.

Kind of like the guy who talks a lot of trash at the beginning of the race while buffing a scuff out of his $400 running shoes and doing stretches in a 1 piece leotard made out of some ridiculous synthetic silk, and then comes in dead last against a bunch of kids in chuck tailors and jeans. You do that, you're gonna get trashed.

I have primochill white in my loop. The loop's only been together for 2 months, I flushed it thoroughly before putting the primochill on with the tubing that came with my XSPC kit. After I ran water through it for a few days to ensure everything was loose I did a hot vinegar flush for 10 minutes. After that I cleaned everything thoroughly and have had nothing but distilled water and a kill coil in it. I've pulled the primochill apart and swabbed it once since installing. The caked debris inside the tubing - and it was only inside the tubing and hadn't even touched my fittings or blocks - was ridiculously thick. I just put a GPU block on last week and the film was back and just as thick. Still hasn't appeared in my block or fittings. Water is still clear. I will be changing my tubing as soon as I can see some definitive results on the Durelene (also need to save up some money because I badly want to try some mayhem aurora dyes







, and I'll have to get a new pump/res to do that) because it's only a matter of time before that stuff starts breaking loose and really does clog up my loop.

I cleaned my rad, my blocks, etc... Before hooking it up. I cleaned the tubing after it gummed up. The stuff is back, it won't stop. If primochill is working so hard to fix the problem, they need to put it out to the community that that is exactly what they're doing, and offer some support for those of us who're having problems. Not hide in their basement until the storm blows over and then come to the surface with a fixed product that nobody will buy because they effectively committed economic suicide by ignoring their customers.

Take a look at EK and see what that kind of attitude did for them.

I haven't been on this thread ragging primochill or any other company because they aren't here to see the complaints. Not being a big fan of circle jerks, I'll sit this one out. Will I buy primochill ever again or recommend it to anyone? No. Their product, website, and customer support are gimped. There are no redeeming qualities to this company.

All I'm saying is this: give us some credit. Some of us have tried to do everything right.


----------



## squick3n

That was a very well done post Ganf and puts to words exactly how I feel on the subject. All anyone wants to do is find the cause of this. It sure seems like Primochill plays a big part and it would be nice if MOB could get his sponsor to participate in this thread


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Hate to be the objective voice of reason but the linked experiment is 100% absofrackinglutely false.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> If he wanted to do a proper experiment then he should put a piece of copper in the jar. Pour HOT vinegar into it shake it up good for how ever long you would shake a standard size 360 Radiator. Then take close ups of the copper surface using a digital Microscope.
> Who the hell leaves vinegar in their Radiator for an hour at a time? NOBODY!; that's who!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't perform a rinse either from what I can see of the thread. And all these people goin on about how ACIDIC vinegar is? If you're using a 100% vinegar solution like Wine or Balsamic vinegar straight from the waste vat then yeah you don't want to use it. But standard white distilled vinegar is diluted with Distilled water down to ~5% by volume give or take ~1/100th of a percent or something along those lines. So basically you're cleaning out your system with Distilled water more than vinegar.
> If you're worried about the acidic content of the vinegar, that's why you flush with 50/50 and then 100% distilled for twice the amount of any vinegar you use. Any vinegar molecules should be rendered inert by that amount of Distilled. If you still are leery run the last flush through tubing using a 5gallon bucket as a Reservoir
> Oh and in case you weren't aware of it Ketchup is more acidic than vinegar and depending on the brand can contain SALT. Ala Heinz 57. Tomatoes are acidic. Heinz contains(in this order): *Tomato concentrate from red ripe tomatoes, DISTILLED VINEGAR, HFC Syrup, SALT, spice, Onion Powder, Natural Flavoring.*
> Does anyone see where WATER is listed here? But yet people say use Ketchup to clean your blocks and that Vinegar is bad for Copper or any other metal besides Aluminum?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be leery, I understand the need to be leery. But if you can't use vinegar then forget Ketchup. It's at least twice as acidic as vinegar. At least Heinz 57 is. But what I find interesting here is people say "Use Ketchup" but aren't forthcoming with which they use. If you're like me and Heinz 57 is what you generally have in the cupboard that's what you reach for without a second thought.
> Also happen to have Del Monte 100% natural on hand. Same ingredients except they add garlic powder at the end of the list.
> If you can't use vinegar why the hell are you using and or recommending Ketchup?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vinegar when used sparingly won't hurt a damned thing. I use vinegar to clean the kitchen all the time. It's safer than bleach and it's non-toxic. Kills any germ that I know of and it's safe for marble, granite, and tile countertops. I can see that a lot of you have zero kitchen experience or are just beginning to find your way round one unsupervised.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you can eat white distilled vinegar on your fish an chips, I seriously doubt a 15minute flush with the stuff is going to hurt any metal it comes into contact with.
> The level of disinformation in that thread based on a faulty outcome of a badly run experiment simply astounds me. Who flushes their radiator for hours?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


the reaso I linked it is the reason below this is a good read. Tell me how many mistake we have done when we putting a water cooler setup? A couples years I i almost had a loop running with vinegar and tap water. I had a emergency call and I had to left everything behind. So to short a long history after 24 I had back to work in the loop system. My lucky was that i had leak and I can smell things like a dog hunter.








We all make mistakes this is just a Red Tag remind for everyone even you.because we come from mistakes. Eva&Adam









EXPERIMENT FEATURE
I executed many similar experiments.
I putted metalic copper pieces in a vinegar bath.
I choose accurately the metalic pieces, so I excluded not bright surfaces.
Cleaning reasons suggest me to close the vessel containing the sour liquid, nonetheless I fill not the vessel's space in a manner to guarantee air standing on the vinegar.
I remarked not any changes in a former time-period.
AFTER ONE WEEK environ, I noted a brighter surface.
Vinegar acts in a manner destroying the original metal oxides presents on the surface.
AFTER SEVERAL WEEKS, I noted a pale greenish hue of the sour liquid.
AFTER SEVERAL MONTHS, I noted a strong green hue of the sour liquid.
AFTER ONE AND MORE YEARS, I noted a brownish precipitated at the bottom of the vessel. The sour liquid remains clear without any solid's suspension, so I verify the "heavy" nature of the precipitated.

EXPERIMENTAL NOTES
In the electrochemical notes, you verify that copper is a chemical species more noble than hydrogen. Thus, you might think that not-oxiding acids (e.g. CH3COOH or acetic acid present in vinegar) cannot attacks copper bodies.
You seen this is a false assumpt.
In the vessel air is present so it fournish oxygen to sour liquid.
The latter undergo "aeration phenomenon" and its oxygen's richness permits copper's corrosion events.
Returns in electrochemical series show you a coupling of electrodic reactions, the followings :
-) (CH3COO)2Cu(aq) + 2e --->
---> Cu(s) + 2 CH3COO-(aq)
-) O2(g) + 4 CH3COOH(aq) + 4e --->
---> 2 H2O(l) + 4 CH3COO-(aq)
Since the former half-reaction has lower noble electrodic potential than the second one, you understand what is the anodic reaction (e.g. copper interesting) and what is the cathodic one (e.g. oxygen interesting). The global is written as follows :
2 Cu(s) + O2(g) + 4 CH3COOH(aq) --->
---> 2 (CH3COO)2Cu(aq) + 2 H2O(aq)

CONCLUSIONS
Oxidizing acids corrode copper bodies.
A slower action is led by dipping copper in acidic aqueous solutions. Now, you must guarantee a long-term air-contact.
Many folds slower are the sour aqueous solutions.
Thus, I verified that sour solutions may corrode common metals, among them there are COPPER, IRON and TIN.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ganf*
> 
> I think you're missing something MBO. Mainly that most of us noticed your original thread about flushing a system and have acted upon it. The reason everyone is getting after primochill is because of the degree of clouding and caking on that tubing is bar none. It absolutely is the worst of the worst and it's a company that specifically manufactures tubing for the use in Watercooled computers first, industrial applications second. Half of the other brands just make the stuff for people to use for whatever purpose they deem fit, and the other half of the companies aren't nearly as bad as primochill.
> Kind of like the guy who talks a lot of trash at the beginning of the race while buffing a scuff out of his $400 running shoes and doing stretches in a 1 piece leotard made out of some ridiculous synthetic silk, and then comes in dead last against a bunch of kids in chuck tailors and jeans. You do that, you're gonna get trashed.
> I have primochill white in my loop. The loop's only been together for 2 months, I flushed it thoroughly before putting the primochill on with the tubing that came with my XSPC kit. After I ran water through it for a few days to ensure everything was loose I did a hot vinegar flush for 10 minutes. After that I cleaned everything thoroughly and have had nothing but distilled water and a kill coil in it. I've pulled the primochill apart and swabbed it once since installing. The caked debris inside the tubing - and it was only inside the tubing and hadn't even touched my fittings or blocks - was ridiculously thick. I just put a GPU block on last week and the film was back and just as thick. Still hasn't appeared in my block or fittings. Water is still clear. I will be changing my tubing as soon as I can see some definitive results on the Durelene (also need to save up some money because I badly want to try some mayhem aurora dyes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , and I'll have to get a new pump/res to do that) because it's only a matter of time before that stuff starts breaking loose and really does clog up my loop.
> I cleaned my rad, my blocks, etc... Before hooking it up. I cleaned the tubing after it gummed up. The stuff is back, it won't stop. If primochill is working so hard to fix the problem, they need to put it out to the community that that is exactly what they're doing, and offer some support for those of us who're having problems. Not hide in their basement until the storm blows over and then come to the surface with a fixed product that nobody will buy because they effectively committed economic suicide by ignoring their customers.
> Take a look at EK and see what that kind of attitude did for them.
> I haven't been on this thread ragging primochill or any other company because they aren't here to see the complaints. Not being a big fan of circle jerks, I'll sit this one out. Will I buy primochill ever again or recommend it to anyone? No. Their product, website, and customer support are gimped. There are no redeeming qualities to this company.
> All I'm saying is this: give us some credit. Some of us have tried to do everything right.


This. You just put together every true words @ once.
Thank you. +Rep


----------



## opt33

Pic of my 2+ year old primochill tubing, this section in pic has been in build for 1.5yrs, also have some that has been in build for past 6 weeks from testing cpu blocks, both have minimal leach. Piece on left is untouched, on right I wiped clear with my finger, so you can see the difference.



Compare my 2+yr old tubing leach to jinsoup 3 week old primochill where it is caked on....something must have changed in the manufacturing process in last year with primochill tubing.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/880#post_17582801


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *opt33*
> 
> Pic of my 2+ year old primochill tubing, this section in pic has been in build for 1.5yrs, also have some that has been in build for past 6 weeks from testing cpu blocks, both have minimal leach. Piece on left is untouched, on right I wiped clear with my finger, so you can see the difference.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compare my 2+yr old tubing leach to jinsoup 3 week old primochill where it is caked on....something must have changed in the manufacturing process in last year with primochill tubing.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/880#post_17582801


Sadly but is true a lot things at Promochill Company has changed for worse. Today's Company are fighting to be recognized in the market with better products and most of them are ignored by many BigFish that has the guts to put them in the market but because of the politicians and corruption they never grow strong like they supposed to be. Primochill has been in the top but after all those worse changes they going down like a submarine with a big hole in #%# and no way to submerge. For an existent company that are in PC marketing like Primochill . ......Oh Gosh I just lost my words.


----------



## Ganf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *opt33*
> 
> Pic of my 2+ year old primochill tubing, this section in pic has been in build for 1.5yrs, also have some that has been in build for past 6 weeks from testing cpu blocks, both have minimal leach. Piece on left is untouched, on right I wiped clear with my finger, so you can see the difference.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compare my 2+yr old tubing leach to jinsoup 3 week old primochill where it is caked on....something must have changed in the manufacturing process in last year with primochill tubing.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/880#post_17582801


I don't even think that's plasticizer. It looks more like residue from the components that gradually washed off over the years.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ganf*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *opt33*
> 
> Pic of my 2+ year old primochill tubing, this section in pic has been in build for 1.5yrs, also have some that has been in build for past 6 weeks from testing cpu blocks, both have minimal leach. Piece on left is untouched, on right I wiped clear with my finger, so you can see the difference.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compare my 2+yr old tubing leach to jinsoup 3 week old primochill where it is caked on....something must have changed in the manufacturing process in last year with primochill tubing.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/880#post_17582801
> 
> 
> 
> I don't even think that's plasticizer. It looks more like residue from the components that gradually washed off over the years.
Click to expand...

This. Or maybe dust after having left two pieces of tubing laying on the table for a couple weeks.









I was lookin closely at both and the lighting had me goin... "







I don't see it"









~Ceadder


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> And posts like this is excactly why you have no idea what Companies are doing to solve the issue's. If you were part of the solution im sure they would gladly speak with you. Any of the companies working on the issue. This is how the companies make their money.You really think they are just sitting back doing nothing?


Actually, my posts in this thread will show that I actually was supporting Primochill at first. I sent an Email informing them of my issue and received a reply that they were sending me new tubing. I thought that was very decent, and more than I expected. The tubing never arrived, and Primochill told me it must have gotten lost in the mail. Anything is possible, but really! What a coincidence. I believe the truth is that they realized their tubing was the issue, and never did send me new tubing, knowing it would cloud up just as quickly as the first batch. They also tried to blame everything in my loop other than the tubing, even though I provided data which clearly showed that all that had really changed was the tubing.
I fully realize that we are all human, and, as such, make plenty of mistakes. The measure of a man or a company is not whether you make a mistake, it is what you do to correct the mistake. Do you stand up and take responsibility? The good companies do. The others never admit their mistakes and throw aspersions at any other company or the user themselves.
My growing intolerance of Primochill is not that their tubing clouds, it is the manner in which they chose to duck all responsibility and, in my opinion, failed to follow through on their promise.


----------



## Bekster

What would be a non plasticizing tubing? Looks aside and cost. People in this thread have mention Tygon silver and norpene.


----------



## opt33

yeah, whatever trace dusting is on inside, my primochill uv blue tubing still looks crystal clear from the outside. My tubing after running 6-8 weeks from my build ~1.5yrs ago, and tubing looks just as clear today as then. And I know others with same tubing from same time frame that still is clear. Shame I wont be able to buy anymore when mine is gone since newer supply has severe plasticizer leach. I wonder if primochill outsources their manufacturing and perhaps changed manufacturer or what? Be nice to hear something from them.

Duralene may end up being ok for clear, but will suck if nobody makes good colored tubing anymore.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> Actually, my posts in this thread will show that I actually was supporting Primochill at first. *1- I sent an Email informing them of my issue and received a reply that they were sending me new tubing. I thought that was very decent, and more than I expected. The tubing never arrived, and Primochill told me it must have gotten lost in the mail.* 2- Anything is possible, but really! What a coincidence. I believe the truth is that they realized their tubing was the issue, and never did send me new tubing, knowing it would cloud up just as quickly as the first batch. They also tried to blame everything in my loop other than the tubing, even though I provided data which clearly showed that all that had really changed was the tubing.
> I fully realize that we are all human, and, as such, make plenty of mistakes. The measure of a man or a company is not whether you make a mistake, it is what you do to correct the mistake. Do you stand up and take responsibility? The good companies do. The others never admit their mistakes and throw aspersions at any other company or the user themselves.
> My growing intolerance of Primochill is not that their tubing clouds, it is the manner in which they chose to duck all responsibility and, in my opinion, failed to follow through on their promise.


1- so sadly, but it is true.
2- so it is but not this time. Time frame,responsibility, Quality and honesty they lost for good everything is down the hill.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bekster*
> 
> What would be a non plasticizing tubing? Looks aside and cost. People in this thread have mention Tygon silver and norpene.


any tubing that's says is Plasticizes Free cost a lot more and it should work like no others but a lot things is going on now. I will going to keep it a low cost tubing and keep my testing in the long run this way we all can get something out of it without paying a lot for Plasticizes free tubing because Primochill was good before, now look how they lost the quality they had in few years a go. any company that makes profit with they quality product they should keep it up like that if they decide choice to grow more and more at least keep they quality and they costumers.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *opt33*
> 
> yeah, whatever trace dusting is on inside, my primochill uv blue tubing still looks crystal clear from the outside. My tubing after running 6-8 weeks from my build ~1.5yrs ago, and tubing looks just as clear today as then. And I know others with same tubing from same time frame that still is clear. Shame I wont be able to buy anymore when mine is gone since newer supply has severe plasticizer leach. I wonder if primochill outsources their manufacturing and perhaps changed manufacturer or what? Be nice to hear something from them.
> Duralene may end up being ok for clear, but will suck if *nobody makes good colored tubing anymore.*


You are right about in what you said above. but at least we do have a company that has been working with our community to provide some good quality DYE like Mayhems. This is the only solution for clear tubing. i do love the colored tubing is is beautiful but the lack of quality today's suck's!!!!!....

by the way nice setup and I do love you colored tubing







you want seel the tubing?








j/k


----------



## SilkyJohnson

Well i am using primochill blue and after about a month and a half of distilled and some I and H dead water it was pretty bad. The hose had a very thick coating of it all throughout the entire loop. Could anyone recommend a blue tubing that wont do this?


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SilkyJohnson*
> 
> Well i am using primochill blue and after about a month and a half of distilled and some I and H dead water it was pretty bad. The hose had a very thick coating of it all throughout the entire loop. Could anyone recommend a blue tubing that wont do this?


you have no choice for colored tubing. but you can try Durelene with Blue Mayhems Dye or buy some expensive Plasticizes free tubing for about $3.80 and up per feet. Tygon silver or nopreme ( black tubing ) if you don't like those colors you can sleeve it








this is the only option for now


----------



## Bekster

TYGON 2001 is plasticize free, but cost an arm and a leg. About $4.35 per feet.

I say the cheapest plasticize free is the norprene tubing.


----------



## SilkyJohnson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> you have no choice for colored tubing. but you can try Durelene with Blue Mayhems Dye or buy some expensive Plasticizes free tubing for about $3.80 and up per feet. Tygon silver or nopreme ( black tubing ) if you don't like those colors you can sleeve it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is the only option for now


I wanted to avoid dyes but its looking like im slowly heading that way. Any link to said tubing thats plasticizer free?


----------



## SilkyJohnson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bekster*
> 
> TYGON 2001 is plasticize free, but cost an arm and a leg. About $4.35 per feet.
> I say the cheapest plasticize free is the norprene tubing.


That is pricey but at this point I just want it to be functional. My last 7970 block and radiator and pump addition will be the last to the loop so now I just want function and mostly maintenance free.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SilkyJohnson*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> you have no choice for colored tubing. but you can try Durelene with Blue Mayhems Dye or buy some expensive Plasticizes free tubing for about $3.80 and up per feet. Tygon silver or nopreme ( black tubing ) if you don't like those colors you can sleeve it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is the only option for now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to avoid dyes but its looking like im slowly heading that way. Any link to said tubing thats plasticizer free?
Click to expand...

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/ty1id3odulso.html
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/ty20plfrtu.html


----------



## skyn3t

Got some News for us, if not an news IDK and if you are not happy with this *Tygon None Plasticizes Free and Tygon Plasticizes Free* and Tygon Data Sheet please DON"T TROLL. I'm put my time and effort in this thread to help our community.

I do know about cheap tubing and very priced tubing. I was reading about those tubing and I decide to search bit more about tubing sizes and fittings and much more important Plasticizes Free. Right below i put together the Tygon data sheet sizes, pressure and heat resistance. Many people are saying in change they fittings to 1/2 ID - 3/4 OD because of the sizes of Nopreme, Tygon E1000 and Tygon 2001 Plasticizes Free.I went to saint-gobain.com website data sheet and found another Tubing with the most sizes,pressure and heat resistance. that we do use in our Water cooling loop. but don't get too excite because prices maybe too High just ONE person in terms of Buying it solo. take a look below and match what you do use in your system loop.

*Most sizes used in water loop.*
*Edited : Added more sizes







*


Tygothane® C-210-A Tubing (data sheet)
Type: (.pdf) Size: 131 KB Download

.
Tygon® 2001 Plasticizer Free Tubing
Tygon® 2001 Tubing (data sheet)
Type: (.pdf) Size: 136 KB Download

Data sheet list of Plasticizes Free

Clear - Tygon Tygothane C-210-A Abrasion-Resistant Precision Tubing, 7/16" ID, 5/8" OD, 3/32" Wall, 100' Length - Price: $253.50 & this item ships for FREE with Super Saver Shipping.[/U] so $2.53 per feet. 10 buyers = $25.35 for each person. Now is time to make a deal and no headache about getting Plasticizes and gunk in our loop. each person put $25.35 it's mean 10' Feet for each one and each person will be responsible for they shipping cost. instead of buying it alone and pay too much because i cannot find any small portion available for buy it from. We can calculate the shipping cost for everyone and split is equal parts included me of any responsible Buyer. who going to buy it and ship out doesn't matter, i just had a idea instead buying any cheap tubing and throw in our loop and done, compared with the prices out there i think it will be a good idea.

PrimoFlex Pro LRT UV Red Tubing -7/16in. ID X 5/8in. OD (10ft pack)
Order Summary
Items: $16.25
Shipping & Handling: $8.61
Total Before Tax: $24.86
Estimated Tax To Be Collected: $0.00
Order Total: $24.86

you do have the option for free shipping $16.25 flat.

Tygon R3603 7/16in. ID 5/8in. OD Laboratory Tubing # AAC00033
Subtotal: $20.90
Shipping: $5.87
Tax: $0.00
Total: $26.77
No free shipping

Masterkleer Tubing 7/16" ID 5/8" OD
Delivery method:
Subtotal:
$4.90
Shipping cost:
$9.81
TOTAL:
$14.71

or even
Durelene PVC tubing 7/16in. ID 5/8in. OD by Saint-Gobain
Subtotal: $4.50
Shipping: $5.87
Tax: $0.00
Total: $10.37
( still in testing ) we know how it going to end up down the road but at least it looks to hold up better than the others brand till now
Are you going to use it after all we have been trough?

sorry for my short word's and Typ0 this is my third spoken language and writing after all.


----------



## georr

I'm probably going to go with the *Tygon 2375 ID 1/2in*. I would *LOVE* to avoid the whole "plasticizer" mess. I know the tubing is more expensive, but in the grand scheme of things for a computer, the additional cost is really not that much more. Luckily, I'm not at all worried about aesthetics, so I don't need to worry about coloring.

One thing I'm not so sure about though is how bendable the tubing will be. I saw some pictures of someone who built a loop with *Tygon 2001* (I can't remember where though), and that tubing ended up being quite difficult to bend. Anyway, just wanted to add my 2 cents worth so far.

Cheers everyone.


----------



## wermad

How flexible (and soft) is the Durelene compared to Primochill Lrt?


----------



## Falknir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> ...Clear - Tygon Tygothane C-210-A Abrasion-Resistant Precision Tubing, 7/16" ID, 5/8" OD, 3/32" Wall, 100' Length - Price: $253.50 & this item ships for FREE with Super Saver Shipping.[/U] so $2.53 per feet. 10 buyers = $25.35 for each person. Now is time to make a deal and no headache about getting Plasticizes and gunk in our loop. each person put $25.35 it's mean 10' Feet for each one and each person will be responsible for they shipping cost. instead of buying it alone and pay too much because i cannot find any small portion available for buy it from. We can calculate the shipping cost for everyone and split is equal parts included me of any responsible Buyer. who going to buy it and ship out doesn't matter, i just had a idea instead buying any cheap tubing and throw in our loop and done, compared with the prices out there i think it will be a good idea...


Tygothane® C-210-A polyurethane tubing is ester-based that deteriorates when in contact with water, humidity, and fungus. I linked or listed the proper products some pages ago, but you want Tygothane® C-544-A I.B. and Superthane Ether; both are polyurethane ether-based resin tubing that do not have issues with water and fungus. However, any polyurethane that is ether-based will be good for water-cooling loops and can be found in a wide range of color selections (e.g. Surethane). But, do make sure it is ether-based and not ester-based or you will have bad times. Also, just look around enough and you'll find tubing sold at shorter intervals at various resellers or even at a better price.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> How flexible (and soft) is the Durelene compared to Primochill Lrt?


Durelene is slightly stiffer though less likely to kink in at similar bends.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falknir*
> 
> Tygothane® C-210-A polyurethane tubing is ester-based that deteriorates when in contact with water, humidity, and fungus. I linked or listed the proper products some pages ago, but you want Tygothane® C-544-A I.B. and Superthane Ether; both are polyurethane ether-based resin tubing that do not have issues with water and fungus. However, any polyurethane that is ether-based will be good for water-cooling loops and can be found in a wide range of color selections (e.g. Surethane). But, do make sure it is ether-based and not ester-based or you will have bad times. Also, just look around enough and you'll find tubing sold at shorter intervals at various resellers or even at a better price.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Durelene is slightly stiffer though less likely to kink in at similar bends.


In the two tubing linked to me only one can be used for most of us who's has 3/4 Fittings is fine the rest won't work because all the wall in the most *tubing is 1/16" you can't bend it is like a soda straw* very very thickness wall. As far i know tubing for WC system must have 1/8" to 3/32 minimum wall thicknesses. About the Tygothane® C-210-A polyurethane deteriorates when in contact with water, humidity and fungus. I do have to look it yo it, I may be wrong about it but I have to check it.

I was confuse with wall thickness size of 1/16" I was going to say 1/32" i had too much reading and numbers last night and very very tired.
revised post 986
PS: and the funniest thing is, I do work all day with measurements


----------



## Ganf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> In the two tubing linked to me only one can be used for most of us who's has 3/4 Fittings is fine the rest won't work because all the wall in the most tubing is 1/16" you can't bend it is like a soda straw very very thickness wall. As far i know tubing for WC system must have 1/8" to 3/32 minimum wall thicknesses. About the Tygothane® C-210-A polyurethane deteriorates when in contact with water, humidity and fungus. I do have to look it yo it, I may be wrong about it but I have to check it.


That would depend entirely on the elasticity of the material. Stiffer material won't kink as badly and being that much thinner won't be as hard to work with as stiff material with a 1/8' wall. The actual problem is the inside diameter of the tubing not making a tight fit. Tygothane has the correct measurements, and if this is the same stuff I think it is, it pretty much feels like rubber. Superthane is still usable with barbs, since you can use clamps that don't rely on outer diameter.


----------



## toricred

So I'm new to WC and a little confused. Is the Tygon 3603 also plasticizer free?


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toricred*
> 
> So I'm new to WC and a little confused. Is the Tygon 3603 also plasticizer free?


Just one word , *NOP* look back some of my post on this thread when will see how bad it is. Just go back on page #75


----------



## toricred

Ok so those were just for comparison. Thanks.

If you haven't gotten 10 people to go in on the good stuff then count me in for 10 feet.

Edit:

I forgot to mention the size 7/16 x 5/8.

Actually I have changed my mind on the expense. My wife just informed me that her hours were cut at work. I'll have to figure out a way to put this off for now. Sorry.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ganf*
> 
> That would depend entirely on the elasticity of the material. Stiffer material won't kink as badly and being that much thinner won't be as hard to work with as stiff material with a 1/8' wall. The actual problem is the inside diameter of the tubing not making a tight fit. Tygothane has the correct measurements, and if this is the same stuff I think it is, it pretty much feels like rubber. Superthane is still usable with barbs, since you can use clamps that don't rely on outer diameter.


You are right and I'm wrong in the post above.
I was confuse with wall thickness size of 1/16" I was going to say 1/32" i had too much reading and numbers last night and very very tired.
PS: and the funniest thing is, I do work all day with measurements








.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toricred*
> 
> Ok so those were just for comparison. Thanks.
> If you haven't gotten 10 people to go in on the good stuff then count me in for 10 feet.
> Edit:
> I forgot to mention the size 7/16 x 5/8.
> Actually I have changed my mind on the expense. My wife just informed me that her hours were cut at work. I'll have to figure out a way to put this off for now. Sorry.


you good man no worries


----------



## DevilDriver

Hey all back after a major move across country and just getting set up again.
Back in March I ordered and redid my loop with PrimoChill PrimoFlex PRO LRT Tubing 1/2"ID 3/4"OD with 1/8" Wall - 10ft Retail Pack - UV Red (PFLEXP10-34-R) from frozencpu.

All looked beautiful, till after the move and I've got things running again.
The loop only has distilled water and a silver kill coil in it, no other additives. it seem's there is some kind of build up through out all of the tubing, and in particular right where the kill coil is there is massive build up.

It is lining the tubing only it seems as there is nothing floating around in the res.

Should I contact primochill about this?


----------



## squick3n

They know, they just don't care enough to respond. I'm sure they will replace the tubing but as you can see from this thread, the new tubing would just cloud as well. The only way to be absolutely sure your tubing won't cloud is to buy something plasticizer free


----------



## Systemlord

It most likely be a waist of time contacting PrimoChill as they will ignore you the way they ignored everyone else!


----------



## jinsoup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> It most likely be a waist of time contacting PrimoChill as they will ignore you the way they ignored everyone else!


:c sad to hear that this was the case with other people too...
They must be busy with other restructuring activities in their little company to care about quality control?
Who knows...

All I know is that I'm glad I got Duralene and other people are hopping on board.

Though I do wonder what the oily stuff is on the outside of the tubing?
Anyone else experience this? (Rub your finger on the inside radius of any bend)


----------



## Falknir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> ..About the Tygothane® C-210-A polyurethane deteriorates when in contact with water, humidity and fungus. I do have to look it yo it, I may be wrong about it but I have to check it...


Well, Tygothane C-210-A is ester-based polyurethane, it is listed as such on many resellers and the official company website. Ester-based has issues with hydrolysis, it's not designed for environments where it'll be exposed to water or humidity, and mainly used for transferring fuel, oil, various chemicals, and so forth. Ether-based polyurethane is not hydrolytic. Of course, you are freely allowed to test ester-based polyurethane's rate of physical degradation in water.


----------



## Chris123NT

I actually have been having this problem with my Danger Den Dreamflex Red tubing. I will take pictures when I replace the tubing next week but I am going to try the Durelene and see how that does. Not really concerned about colored tubing and I'm thinking clear tubing with distilled water might actually look pretty cool in my build.

I'm glad I found this thread, I thought the clouding was me doing something wrong, although I couldn't figure out what as I'm only using Distilled + PT Nuke.


----------



## Ganf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DevilDriver*
> 
> Hey all back after a major move across country and just getting set up again.
> Back in March I ordered and redid my loop with PrimoChill PrimoFlex PRO LRT Tubing 1/2"ID 3/4"OD with 1/8" Wall - 10ft Retail Pack - UV Red (PFLEXP10-34-R) from frozencpu.
> All looked beautiful, till after the move and I've got things running again.
> The loop only has distilled water and a silver kill coil in it, no other additives. it seem's there is some kind of build up through out all of the tubing, and in particular right where the kill coil is there is massive build up.
> It is lining the tubing only it seems as there is nothing floating around in the res.
> Should I contact primochill about this?


Curious that you say the buildup is worse around the coil. Makes me wonder if there isn't some sort of reaction between the anti-microbial properties of their tubing and silver.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jinsoup*
> 
> :c sad to hear that this was the case with other people too...
> They must be busy with other restructuring activities in their little company to care about quality control?
> Who knows...
> All I know is that I'm glad I got Duralene and other people are hopping on board.
> Though I do wonder what the oily stuff is on the outside of the tubing?
> Anyone else experience this? (Rub your finger on the inside radius of any bend)


Keeps it from drying out during storage and use. Some of this stuff is meant to be in place for a decade or more. If you're worried about it drying out just rub it down very lightly with some mineral oil every 3 or 4 months. But it shouldn't be necessary, unless you notice any discoloration.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ganf*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DevilDriver*
> 
> Hey all back after a major move across country and just getting set up again.
> Back in March I ordered and redid my loop with PrimoChill PrimoFlex PRO LRT Tubing 1/2"ID 3/4"OD with 1/8" Wall - 10ft Retail Pack - UV Red (PFLEXP10-34-R) from frozencpu.
> All looked beautiful, till after the move and I've got things running again.
> The loop only has distilled water and a silver kill coil in it, no other additives. it seem's there is some kind of build up through out all of the tubing, and in particular right where the kill coil is there is massive build up.
> It is lining the tubing only it seems as there is nothing floating around in the res.
> Should I contact primochill about this?
> 
> 
> 
> Curious that you say the buildup is worse around the coil. Makes me wonder if there isn't some sort of reaction between the anti-microbial properties of their tubing and silver.
Click to expand...

This was my thought too at the beginning of this whole issue. Is why I didn't use the coil I bought when I first built this loop. I have nothing in mine and still no plasticizer that I can see. Next time I'm down, I'll try to get a good pic of my tubing.









~Ceadder


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ganf*
> 
> Curious that you say the buildup is worse around the coil. Makes me wonder if there isn't some sort of *reaction between the anti-microbial properties of their tubing and silver.*
> Keeps it from drying out during storage and use. Some of this stuff is meant to be in place for a decade or more. If you're worried about it drying out just rub it down very lightly with some mineral oil every 3 or 4 months. But it shouldn't be necessary, unless you notice any discoloration.


Very good observation








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> This was my thought too at the beginning of this whole issue. Is why I didn't use the coil I bought when I first built this loop. I have nothing in mine and still no plasticizer that I can see. Next time I'm down, I'll try to get a good pic of my tubing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder




Koolance's product warranty does not cover the use of 3rd-party coolants, coolant additives, or corrosion. Koolance LIQ-702 or LIQ-705 coolants are strongly recommended to help avoid issues with mixed metals or biological growth. Additionally, do not use aluminum with bare (unplated) copper or bare (unplated) brass in the same system. *Do not use silver with nickel in the same system.*







any input on this ?


----------



## drkCrix

What would be the clear tubing of choice to get at this point? Fesser Clear, Thermochill Clear, Duralene or on of the more expensive Tygon types?


----------



## Chris123NT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drkCrix*
> 
> What would be the clear tubing of choice to get at this point? Fesser Clear, Thermochill Clear, Duralene or on of the more expensive Tygon types?


People seem to be getting good results with Durelene. I am going to try it myself and see how it goes, I'll post pics of my old tubing when I replace it and keep everyone updated on how the durelene holds up in my loop.


----------



## chmodlabs

I've started purchasing all of my tubing from mcMaster.Carr and not pc water cooling sites. I've had much better performance and literally no plasticizer build up.
Here's a link to the tubing I've been using -> http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-plastic-and-rubber-tubing/=ibfag0
There are more expensive "ultra-chemical resistant" types of tubing available but unfortunately they cost around $6.25 a foot.

- chmodlabs


----------



## GoodInk

OK so what about this stuff?
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-plastic-and-rubber-tubing/=ibff1g

*Other polyurethane tubing may let water get the best of them, but not this one*-this ether-based tubing shrugs off water and maintains its integrity. This tubing is clear, so you can easily monitor the flow of your line. It is more abrasion resistant than PVC tubing with a higher tear strength, *plus it's made without a plasticizer additive that can contaminate fluid passing through it.* Use with water, air, and food and beverage. Material is FDA compliant. It can be sterilized with gas. Not rated for vacuum.

ID 7/16"
OD 5/8"
Bend Radius 3 3/4" (I'm thinking this is a no go)


----------



## Chris123NT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> OK so what about this stuff?
> http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-plastic-and-rubber-tubing/=ibff1g
> *Other polyurethane tubing may let water get the best of them, but not this one*-this ether-based tubing shrugs off water and maintains its integrity. This tubing is clear, so you can easily monitor the flow of your line. It is more abrasion resistant than PVC tubing with a higher tear strength, *plus it's made without a plasticizer additive that can contaminate fluid passing through it.* Use with water, air, and food and beverage. Material is FDA compliant. It can be sterilized with gas. Not rated for vacuum.
> ID 7/16"
> OD 5/8"
> Bend Radius 3 3/4" (I'm thinking this is a no go)


The link you're providing is going to a BUNCH of different tubing. Which one in particular are you talking about?


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chris123NT*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> OK so what about this stuff?
> http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-plastic-and-rubber-tubing/=ibff1g
> *Other polyurethane tubing may let water get the best of them, but not this one*-this ether-based tubing shrugs off water and maintains its integrity. This tubing is clear, so you can easily monitor the flow of your line. It is more abrasion resistant than PVC tubing with a higher tear strength, *plus it's made without a plasticizer additive that can contaminate fluid passing through it.* Use with water, air, and food and beverage. Material is FDA compliant. It can be sterilized with gas. Not rated for vacuum.
> ID 7/16"
> OD 5/8"
> Bend Radius 3 3/4" (I'm thinking this is a no go)
> 
> 
> 
> The link you're providing is going to a BUNCH of different tubing. Which one in particular are you talking about?
Click to expand...

I guess you can't link to a product with them







I'm guessing chmodlabs tried the same thing. Here is a pic of it


----------



## squick3n

Shore rating of 84 means it is very rigid. Not that you can't use it, but it will kink and otherwise try and keep its shape.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squick3n*
> 
> Shore rating of 84 means it is very rigid. Not that you can't use it, but it will kink and otherwise try and keep its shape.


That's what I was thinking, maybe I'll buy a small amount and try to dip it in hot water to see if it will hold it's shape.


----------



## Bekster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drkCrix*
> 
> What would be the clear tubing of choice to get at this point? Fesser Clear, Thermochill Clear, Duralene or on of the more expensive Tygon types?


I would just try Durelene and if it doesn't work out for you can go for the more expensive Tygon tubing. It's only like .69 per ft for 1/2 in / 3/4 out tubing.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bekster*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *drkCrix*
> 
> What would be the clear tubing of choice to get at this point? Fesser Clear, Thermochill Clear, Duralene or on of the more expensive Tygon types?
> 
> 
> 
> I would just try Durelene and if it doesn't work out for you can go for the more expensive Tygon tubing. It's only like .69 per ft for 1/2 in / 3/4 out tubing.
Click to expand...

Well I'm going copper tubing for both my rigs, but thought I might give this a shot if people would willing to sculpt their tubing.


----------



## Marcusk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bekster*
> 
> I would just try Durelene and if it doesn't work out for you can go for the more expensive Tygon tubing. It's only like .69 per ft for 1/2 in / 3/4 out tubing.


Tygon is suppossedly one of the bad ones, so you probably shouldn't get that right now. (Their normal clear one)


----------



## Mayhem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> I guess you can't link to a product with them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing chmodlabs tried the same thing. Here is a pic of it


Hmm some Glycols can shorten the life of the tubing " Moderate Effect-Some chemical resistance. Some performance degradation. Shortening of product life." How ever that is based on Ethylene Glycol and doesnt say much about Propylene Glycol or Refined Vegetable Extracts all so nothing about copper sulphate or Silver.

Capture.JPG 207k .JPG file


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marcusk*
> 
> Tygon is suppossedly one of the bad ones, so you probably shouldn't get that right now. (Their normal clear one)


Amigo there are a dozen flavor of Tygon or more, and each of them slightly different...and some of them are worse than others. There is no "normal clear one".


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skripka*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Marcusk*
> 
> Tygon is suppossedly one of the bad ones, so you probably shouldn't get that right now. (Their normal clear one)
> 
> 
> 
> Amigo there are a dozen flavor of Tygon or more, and each of them slightly different...and some of them are worse than others. There is no "normal clear one".
Click to expand...

Pretty sure he is talking about R3603


----------



## Marcusk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skripka*
> 
> Amigo there are a dozen flavor of Tygon or more, and each of them slightly different...and some of them are worse than others. There is no "normal clear one".


I meant the most commonly used "R3603" one.


----------



## Ovrclck

*Update*

I tore down my loop this weekend. I didn't have any crazy leeching, just light clouding which can be rubbed off with my finger.


Slight mess in my res but I was able to rub it out.


My pump was clean, EK Supreme HF was clean, scrubbed it anyways,

gpu block..um, I didn't bother cleaning it as I'm afraid the o-ring will be a pain to put back on like my EK spin.


----------



## Marcusk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BGKris*
> 
> gpu block..um, I didn't bother cleaning it as I'm afraid the o-ring will be a pain to put back on like my EK spin.


Their GPU block O-rings are actually very easy to put back, atleast on the 6870 block. It was easier then on the Supreme HF when i tried opening mine.


----------



## stringboi

So, I've gone through a few pages here only to read countless speculations.....has anyone actually found something that works or come to a census as to whats happening here? What products are to be avoided or never mixed?


----------



## theseekeroffun

This is your best bet for now.....http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/ty20plfrtu.html


----------



## Chris123NT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stringboi*
> 
> So, I've gone through a few pages here only to read countless speculations.....has anyone actually found something that works or come to a census as to whats happening here? What products are to be avoided or never mixed?


A bunch of us are trying Durelene now as a few have shown some very promising results with it. I'm waiting for mine to show up and I will be replacing my tubing and reporting here to keep everyone updated on how it holds up.


----------



## Marcusk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *theseekeroffun*
> 
> This is your best bet for now.....http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/ty20plfrtu.html


That tubing is "clouded" already at purchase, so if you wan't clear tubing that is definitely something you should avoid.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?281255-Plasticizer-leach&p=5107313&viewfull=1#post5107313


----------



## theseekeroffun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marcusk*
> 
> That tubing is "clouded" already at purchase, so if you wan't clear tubing that is definitely something you should avoid.
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?281255-Plasticizer-leach&p=5107313&viewfull=1#post5107313


The sample I received is clear?


----------



## Ovrclck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marcusk*
> 
> Their GPU block O-rings are actually very easy to put back, atleast on the 6870 block. It was easier then on the Supreme HF when i tried opening mine.


Alright, I'll give it a try tonight. Thanks


----------



## Marcusk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *theseekeroffun*
> 
> The sample I received is clear?


Here's another source saying it is clouded when new:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1249080/tygon-tubing-b-44-3-or-b-44-4x#post_17087479


----------



## jinsoup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marcusk*
> 
> Here's another source saying it is clouded when new:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1249080/tygon-tubing-b-44-3-or-b-44-4x#post_17087479


I thought it was advertised/test verified to be a non-clear tubing?
Another thread confirmed it as a plasticizer free tubing, the only drawback being that it only comes in translucent/opaque.

Err, the Tygon 2001 that is, over $4/ft tubing if IIRC.


----------



## AzN1337c0d3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marcusk*
> 
> Here's another source saying it is clouded when new:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1249080/tygon-tubing-b-44-3-or-b-44-4x#post_17087479


I own 2001, 2375 and 2475. They are definitely only "translucent" when compared to plasticized tubes like B-44-4X.

FWIW, B-44-4X with Swiftec Hydrx and distilled has been clear for about 4 months for me. Minus some slight yellow staining due to the UV Green dye they use (expected).

I recently installed some new tubing to connect an external radiator I had. You could tell the old tubing had plasticized because it was much harder than the new tubing. The fact that the tubing hadn't turned opaque makes me believe that people with the crazy residue have some kind of chemical reaction going on.

I have nickel, copper, and silver in my loop.


----------



## opt33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AzN1337c0d3r*
> 
> I own 2001, 2375 and 2475. They are definitely only "translucent" when compared to plasticized tubes like B-44-4X.
> FWIW, B-44-4X with Swiftec Hydrx and distilled has been clear for about 4 months for me. Minus some slight yellow staining due to the UV Green dye they use (expected).
> I recently installed some new tubing to connect an external radiator I had. You could tell the old tubing had plasticized because it was much harder than the new tubing. The fact that the tubing hadn't turned opaque makes me believe that people with the crazy residue have some kind of chemical reaction going on.
> I have nickel, copper, and silver in my loop.


Interesting about the 2375 thought it would be clear.

But I never had plasticizer leach with b-44-4x or b-44-3x either, and used both for over a year. Just some slight yellowing over a year, even without running dye. Even a rep from St gobain (tygon) tubing said would get less plasticizer leach from beverage tubing. In past years when discussing, someone had stated that inner bore was coated to reduce plasticizer leach, since it was to be used with milk and other beverages/drinking, but that info came second hand.

It isnt a chemical reaction, just you are using tubing that typically doesnt leach. Perhaps just like Duralene, that also has plasticizer, but apparently tends not to leach.

post 948, first pic is my build with tygon 3603 that had severe plasticizer leach and tygon 3603 is the king of leaking plasticizer, you can replace your tubing with that and you will see white precipitate on walls,...second pic is when I replaced tubing with bev tubing b-44-3x and no leach at all, even using same coolant additive, only added a blue dye.


----------



## Ovrclck

Durelene installed


----------



## toricred

That looks a little blue on my tablet. Is there a little dye in that?


----------



## sahando

Was about to order some duralene from sidewinders, but unfortunately its $47 is the cheapest shipping they have to Australia. Until i can get a group buy going with a few of my friends i will be using my Primoflex LRT tubing, its kind of cloudy at the moment, but im not sure if thats primochill dye bomb being rubbish or what. i got some new fittings and blocks coming in for my build soon, so when they arive and i dismantle the current build, il post back with 2 month old Primoflex LRT tubbing.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BGKris*
> 
> Durelene installed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toricred*
> 
> That looks a little blue on my tablet. Is there a little dye in that?


the blue you see is the light reflection








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> if yuu have this crap primochill dye bomb in your loop remove it it can crystilizer inside the blocks so bad and only run Distilled water and try to find some friend to get the Durelene with ya. and if you want use any DYW use MayHems. This is the only trusted DYE in the market.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sahando*
> 
> Was about to order some duralene from sidewinders, but unfortunately its $47 is the cheapest shipping they have to Australia. Until i can get a group buy going with a few of my friends i will be using my Primoflex LRT tubing, its kind of cloudy at the moment, but im not sure if thats *primochill dye bomb* being rubbish or what. i got some new fittings and blocks coming in for my build soon, so when they arive and i dismantle the current build, il post back with 2 month old Primoflex LRT tubbing.


if you have this crap primochill dye bomb in your loop remove it it can crystilizer inside the blocks so bad and only run Distilled water and try to find some friend to get the Durelene with ya. and if you want use any DYW use MayHems. This is the only trusted DYE in the market.


----------



## AzN1337c0d3r

I'm really interested in Tygon E-1000. It is supposedly plasticizer free, has a low Shore durometer rating (40A!). If it is as clear as B-44-4X it may be my next purchase (even if it is 5x as expensive as what I'm paying for B-44-4X).

Anyone have experience with it?


----------



## skyn3t

Plasticizer Problems Update.

As you guys know I'm running Durelene PVC tubing 7/16in. ID 5/8in. OD by Saint-Gobain + Distilled Water + Silver Kill Coilfor 3 weeks and 6 days ( 27 Days ) and it looks the same since Day One. not signs of Plasticize or Cloud including the Reservoir i have been running my 3570K 4.5Mhz and my GTX 670 FTW @ 1200MHz







24/7. Heat is not the issue as far as i know in my recent test's. I know i had doe some Plasticizer testing with Tygon R-3603 and Durelene in Glass Container but some how all those test when very different in what I have now both my System are running Durelene Tubing the Plasticizer Test Bench had MayHems Red Dye and still the same no Plasticizer or Cloud whatsoever. I'm very happy with my result test's.

Just to you guys know this time i have a more high quality photos compared with my last result so the pictures is much more clear look and don't pay attention in some light reflection in tubes it make it looks *B*lue o even a *B*it *C*loud *B*ut it's *NOT*. When water inside the tubing and some bends it's *M*agnify the letter's, you guys know what I'm talk about.











This is the *DIY Water Cooler Flush System* ( not my invention but it is 



 Invention.

Parts List

One - AgroMax 250 GPH SUBMERSIBLE WATER PUMP
Two - Rubber grommets 3/4 ( Had it in my tool Box don't remember when i got those ) US $17.95 + shipping = $22.44






Durelene PVC tubing 7/16in. ID 5/8in. OD by Saint-Gobain Couple feet.
Two - Bitspower G 1/4 Matte Black 1/2in. ID Barb - BP-MBWP-C01 I Always have some extra fitting's ( Everyone must have ) $2.99 each
GE Opaq Whole House System
$18.97.








Ain't Pay $41.98 just for GE Clear Whole House System. and Shut off Valve.
Two - GE Spun Fiber, Replace Filter 2-Pack $9.97 /EA-Each
One - Leaktite 2-Gal. Bucket with $3.58 Lid $1.98

Total= $62.92









With this System you can FLUSH all your loop







quick and easy.


----------



## Chris123NT

Installed my Durelene today. Tomorrow I'll post pics of my old dreamflex tubing, the stuff looks like hell, white film coating everything inside, so I flushed my rads and blocks and put the Durelene in. Hopefully I see the same results as skyn3t


----------



## DevilDriver

Just to let you all know, I contacted Primochill about my tubing. They got back to me and said in there testing it's not the tubing but another component in the loop causing the issue. They are working on a solution to the problem and have an additive they are sending me to add to my loop to see if it clears the tubing up. Once I get the additive I will report back here and let you all know how it goes as well as email them back to provide input on there additive.


----------



## gerrardo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DevilDriver*
> 
> Just to let you all know, I contacted Primochill about my tubing. They got back to me and said in there testing it's not the tubing but another component in the loop causing the issue. They are working on a solution to the problem and have an additive they are sending me to add to my loop to see if it clears the tubing up. Once I get the additive I will report back here and let you all know how it goes as well as email them back to provide input on there additive.


This rings far too close to the way EK handled the nickel flaking. Adding anything to a loop compromises performance, and for all we know, that "additive" primochill is referring to could end up gunking those lovely micropins we all have in our loops.









Steer clear of that additive from your main loop at all cost!


----------



## DevilDriver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gerrardo*
> 
> This rings far too close to the way EK handled the nickel flaking. Adding anything to a loop compromises performance, and for all we know, that "additive" primochill is referring to could end up gunking those lovely micropins we all have in our loops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steer clear of that additive from your main loop at all cost!


Well I figure I have nothing to loose. My nice loop with less than 3 mo's actual usage is clouded bad. If it works, great. If not I tear the loop down, clean every thing and set it back up.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gerrardo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DevilDriver*
> 
> Just to let you all know, I contacted Primochill about my tubing. They got back to me and said in there testing it's not the tubing but another component in the loop causing the issue. They are working on a solution to the problem and have an additive they are sending me to add to my loop to see if it clears the tubing up. Once I get the additive I will report back here and let you all know how it goes as well as email them back to provide input on there additive.
> 
> 
> 
> This rings far too close to the way EK handled the nickel flaking. Adding anything to a loop compromises performance, and for all we know, that "additive" primochill is referring to could end up gunking those lovely micropins we all have in our loops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steer clear of that additive from your main loop at all cost!
Click to expand...

Yeah... ummmmm no.









People use additives all the time with no loss in performance or gunking up the loop.

That doesn't mean that it doesn't happen occasionally just that you're droppin no knowledge here and claiming it as fact. We don't even know what the additive is and whether PC intends to use it in the manufacturing process or include it with every roll of tubing from here on out. So please don't jump the gun until there is something definitive one way or the other.









~Ceadder


----------



## DevilDriver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Yeah... ummmmm no.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People use additives all the time with no loss in performance or gunking up the loop.
> That doesn't mean that it doesn't happen occasionally just that you're droppin no knowledge here and claiming it as fact. We don't even know what the additive is and whether PC intends to use it in the manufacturing process or include it with every roll of tubing from here on out. So please don't jump the gun until there is something definitive one way or the other.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Thank you for your input Ceadderman! Personally IMOP if PrimoChill says they are looking into the issue and may have a resolution, I'm willing to try it.
It's better than them ignoring the issue completely and saying its not there fault, not there problem, tough luck.


----------



## Chris123NT

There's no way it's not the tubing. If it was something else, ALL tubing would do it regardless of anything, but the fact is there are certain tubes out there that just don't leech plasticizer.


----------



## squick3n

Why risk using this additive? It's a pain but just switch out your tubing. It costs less than $10 for Durelene and MasterKleer


----------



## ElGreco

... If Primochill believes its not he tubes but the rest of the components, how do you believe that they will get unstuck of this idea if nobody checks their solution?

OF COURSE. and the customer should not be the beta tester, BUT at this stage i cannot see any other solution to persuade these guys to search deaper...

If we believe its the tubes and the tube manufacturers believe its the rest of the components and we do not cooperate to find a solution, then no solution will be found... ever!

And let me repeat again, it should never be the customer who beta tests the products he buys, but at this stage, i really have no other idea that would work.

Unfortunately i havent found the time to check my 7 month old primochill lrt uv blue and black tubes, to support this thread with my feedback as well.


----------



## squick3n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> ... If Primochill believes its not he tubes but the rest of the components, how do you believe that they will get unstuck of this idea if nobody checks their solution?
> OF COURSE. and the customer should not be the beta tester, BUT at this stage i cannot see any other solution to persuade these guys to search deaper...
> If we believe its the tubes and the tube manufacturers believe its the rest of the components and we do not cooperate to find a solution, then no solution will be found... ever!
> And let me repeat again, it should never be the customer who beta tests the products he buys, but at this stage, i really have no other idea that would work.
> Unfortunately i havent found the time to check my 7 month old primochill lrt uv blue and black tubes, to support this thread with my feedback as well.


I'd love if they came out and told us "hey this is the problem, this is what is happening, and this is how we are fixing it". But all they are doing is sending him an additive with no scientific explanation about the materials at work


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> ... If Primochill believes its not he tubes but the rest of the components, how do you believe that they will get unstuck of this idea if nobody checks their solution?
> OF COURSE. and the customer should not be the beta tester, BUT at this stage i cannot see any other solution to persuade these guys to search deaper...
> If we believe its the tubes and the tube manufacturers believe its the rest of the components and we do not cooperate to find a solution, then no solution will be found... ever!
> And let me repeat again, it should never be the customer who beta tests the products he buys, but at this stage, i really have no other idea that would work.
> Unfortunately i havent found the time to check my 7 month old primochill lrt uv blue and black tubes, to support this thread with my feedback as well.


I redid my Primochill with a new batch in late May. Still clear...compared to when I redid back in December/January and it clouded to opaque in 2 days. I'm prone to thinking they either fixed the recipe, or people bought or are using older batches.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chris123NT*
> 
> There's no way it's not the tubing. If it was something else, ALL tubing would do it regardless of anything, but the fact is there are certain tubes out there that just don't leech plasticizer.


Well there is other tubing in this thread that have had the same problems that Primochill tubing has been having, this is not just a Primochill problem. Then MBO, I believe, had improved how long his Primochill tubing lasted from rad flushes with vinegar. So something has changed, be it the tubing, the rads, the blocks, and something isn't playing nice in our loops.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> ... If Primochill believes its not he tubes but the rest of the components, how do you believe that they will get unstuck of this idea if nobody checks their solution?
> 
> OF COURSE. and the customer should not be the beta tester, BUT at this stage i cannot see any other solution to persuade these guys to search deaper...
> 
> If we believe its the tubes and the tube manufacturers believe its the rest of the components and we do not cooperate to find a solution, then no solution will be found... ever!
> 
> And let me repeat again, it should never be the customer who beta tests the products he buys, but at this stage, i really have no other idea that would work.
> 
> Unfortunately i havent found the time to check my 7 month old primochill lrt uv blue and black tubes, to support this thread with my feedback as well.


In most cases I would agree about us not beta testing, but the problem is there is a lot of different brands of stuff out there and this would be very, very hard for them to solve on their own. I'm guessing they have been able to reproduce the problems on their own and what ever this stuff is helped or solved it in their shop. So now they are hoping it will help in other systems. Now my main concern is how will this stuff react with other stuff we put in our loops, dyes, PT Nuke, coolants, ect, ect. Then there is how much will it cost the customers to buy it. Finally is it a real fix or a band aid that will vary from system to system.


----------



## gerrardo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Yeah... ummmmm no.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People use additives all the time with no loss in performance or gunking up the loop.
> That doesn't mean that it doesn't happen occasionally just that you're droppin no knowledge here and claiming it as fact. We don't even know what the additive is and whether PC intends to use it in the manufacturing process or include it with every roll of tubing from here on out. So please don't jump the gun until there is something definitive one way or the other.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


I fully understand the use of additives like Mayhems and PT nuke, where there is tested and proven safe interaction. It is chemistry, however, that each time you add something to a solution it changes how it works. I understand your concern though, about jumping to quick conclusions, so I'll restate my opinion on that: I would hold off on the additive until there is some sort of testing around it. The idea of adding something from a company with additive issues like their dye bombs just does not sit well with me. Also, we don't know how that additive will interact with copper radiators or nickel blocks or delicate o-rings, much different than what we know about ethylene glycol and the like. My original post was made probably a little hastily, as I'm tired of the "customer is always wrong" approach companies are taking these days.

Consider it a conservative approach, cheers Ceadder


----------



## opt33

Primochill may claim it isnt the tubing, and in a sense they would be correct, it is an additive, it is the plasticizer in the tubing, though that is an additive on their end.

Tubing like tygon 3603 has been leaching DEHP plasticizer in builds for 10 years that I have been watercooling, and people complained about it before me. Its not like this is a new thing. I contacted ST gobains (tygon) and others did in past many years ago, and we had a rep from tygon interact with some on xtreme at one point years ago. No question it is plasticizer leach. DEHP plasticizer is NOT water soluble, hence it forms white precipitate on tubing.

One way primochill may be able to remove DEHP plasticizer already formed on inner bore, would be to add something like alcohol/ether/acetone ie that DEHP is soluble in and is miscible with water. Unless they are speaking of an additive that reduces leach, but that wont clear what is already there.

They might fix the issue in the long run by using a water soluble plasticizer, just water soluble ones little more expensive.

But I would not put any additive in my loop unless they clearly told me what it was..because if an alcohol, ether, or acetone may cause an acrylic reservoir to crack.

If primochill was upfront and just said, currently using DEHP in tubing, and new tubing has for X plasticizer that wont leach or if does won t show since dissolves in water...they should clearly label new tubing to distinguish it from older tubing.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *opt33*
> 
> Primochill may claim it isnt the tubing, and in a sense they would be correct, it is an additive, it is the plasticizer in the tubing, though that is an additive on their end.
> Tubing like tygon 3603 has been leaching DEHP plasticizer in builds for 10 years that I have been watercooling, and people complained about it before me. Its not like this is a new thing. I contacted ST gobains (tygon) and others did in past many years ago, and we had a rep from tygon interact with some on xtreme at one point years ago. No question it is plasticizer leach. DEHP plasticizer is NOT water soluble, hence it forms white precipitate on tubing.
> One way primochill may be able to remove DEHP plasticizer already formed on inner bore, would be to add something like alcohol/ether/acetone ie that DEHP is soluble in and is miscible with water. Unless they are speaking of an additive that reduces leach, but that wont clear what is already there.
> They might fix the issue in the long run by using a water soluble plasticizer, just water soluble ones little more expensive.
> But I would not put any additive in my loop unless they clearly told me what it was..because if an alcohol, ether, or acetone may cause an acrylic reservoir to crack.
> *If primochill was upfront and just said, currently using DEHP in tubing*, and new tubing has for X plasticizer that wont leach or if does won t show since dissolves in water...they should clearly label new tubing to distinguish it from older tubing.


Primochill may or may not actually know. They may well OEM their tubing to someone else, like lots of folks and they may or may not be allowed to talk about it.

Not trying to make excuses for them, just saying that things are seldom as simple as the public likes to think.


----------



## Chris123NT

Here are my results, first off, here's the old tubing, yummy white stuff:



And here is the Durelene installed in my build, hopefully this stuff doesn't turn cloudy on me, I love the look of the clear tubing in this machine:


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chris123NT*
> 
> Here are my results, first off, here's the old tubing, yummy white stuff:


Thank God you show up with that Cake Powder other wiser i had to go out in a local store for my wife. J/K
Chris123NT : t does looks disgusting man. have you checked all your loop hardware? hope you did

And here is the Durelene installed in my build, hopefully this stuff doesn't turn cloudy on me, I love the look of the clear tubing in this machine:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






[/quote]
It does make it look Good







so far my Durelene already pass 3 weeks and 7 days clear like Day One


----------



## Chris123NT

Yeah I checked all the blocks, suprisingly they were all clean, so was the reservoir. Did a full flush on all 3 of my rads, and re-assembled the loop, so I should be good now.

Btw I should probably mention my old tubing was Danger Den Dreamflex, not only was the plasticizer deposits very extensive, but the tubing was also significantly more rigid than it was when installed. The durelene was way more flexible and easy to work with.


----------



## toricred

Has anybody looked at XSPC High Flex tubing as an alternative? I want to do as much of my shopping as possible at one place. I want to get Monsoon compression fittings. I had wanted to also go with Duralene, but I can't seem to find them in the same store.


----------



## squick3n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toricred*
> 
> Has anybody looked at XSPC High Flex tubing as an alternative? I want to do as much of my shopping as possible at one place. I want to get Monsoon compression fittings. I had wanted to also go with Duralene, but I can't seem to find them in the same store.


I run into this constantly with the stuff I want. No one place has everything. Especially tubing. I just bough 25ft of Masterkller and paid almost as much in shipping as the tubing cost


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toricred*
> 
> Has anybody looked at XSPC High Flex tubing as an alternative? I want to do as much of my shopping as possible at one place. I want to get Monsoon compression fittings. I had wanted to also go with Duralene, but I can't seem to find them in the same store.


you can try sidewinder]sidewindercomputers.com for tubing shipped to my location
25' Feet Subtotal: $11.25
Shipping: $8.12
Tax: $0.00
Total: $19.37


----------



## McRey

Hi there!! Im a noob for water cooling!!
I just order my wc part for my first wc build!! And it include PrimoFlex Pro LRT Clear Tubing -3/8in. ID X 1/2in. OD!!
After a long read on this thread, it makes me doubt with the PrimoFlex Pro LRT Clear Tubing -3/8in. ID X 1/2in. OD that i ordered!!








Can anyone suggest me the other options for clear tubbing?? Coz i planed to use PrimoChill ICE - UV Electric Blue at my clear tubbing!!


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *McRey*
> 
> Hi there!! Im a noob for water cooling!!
> I just order my wc part for my first wc build!! And it include PrimoFlex Pro LRT Clear Tubing -3/8in. ID X 1/2in. OD!!
> After a long read on this thread, it makes me doubt with the PrimoFlex Pro LRT Clear Tubing -3/8in. ID X 1/2in. OD that i ordered!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone suggest me the other options for clear tubbing?? Coz i planed to use PrimoChill ICE - UV Electric Blue at my clear tubbing!!


this is the reply for the post above your head







and welcome to water cooler









you can try sidewinder]sidewindercomputers.com for tubing shipped to my location
25' Feet Subtotal: $11.25
Shipping: $8.12
Tax: $0.00
Total: $19.37

This is the best tubing for you buck! For all the testing i have done and still doing Durelene still holding up so good.IF you have a option not to use Primochill this will be great. return it and order some Durelene.


----------



## McRey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> this is the reply for the post above your head
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and welcome to water cooler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you can try sidewinder]sidewindercomputers.com for tubing shipped to my location
> 25' Feet Subtotal: $11.25
> Shipping: $8.12
> Tax: $0.00
> Total: $19.37
> This is the best tubing for you buck! For all the testing i have done and still doing Durelene still holding up so good.IF you have a option not to use Primochill this will be great. return it and order some Durelene.


Ty Bro it gave me some option for!! next tubbing!! But i already ordered my primochill tubbing 3 days ago!! and now i just wait for it arrived!! I will tested it and if it happened like others, i will try ure suggestion to go with this durelene tubbing!!!


----------



## toricred

So I'm going to go for Duralene. I was planning on going with 7/16 by 5/8, but I can't find any Monsoon compression fittings that size. My options are to go up to 1/2 by 3/4 or down to 3/8 by 1/2.If I'm only cooling my CPU and no graphic cards, does it matter which way I go?


----------



## opt33

Dont use thin walled 1/16 inch tubing like 3/8 ID 1/2 OD, it will kink, it attaches less securely because of thin wall. 3/8 ID 5/8 OD (1/8 inch thick wall tubing...2 walls in diameter) is easiest to work with, bends tighter, looks nicer, and same temps within 0.1C as larger diameter 1/2 ID 3/4 OD.


----------



## toricred

Well I spoke too soon. I just found the fittings in 7/16 by 5/8. Should I go with the 3/8 by 5/8 anyhow?


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *McRey*
> 
> Ty Bro it gave me some option for!! next tubbing!! But i already ordered my primochill tubbing 3 days ago!! and now i just wait for it arrived!! I will tested it and if it happened like others, i will try ure suggestion to go with this durelene tubbing!!!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toricred*
> 
> Well I spoke too soon. I just found the fittings in 7/16 by 5/8. Should I go with the 3/8 by 5/8 anyhow?


7/16 by 5/8 more flow


----------



## DevilDriver

Well I got the additive in from primochill, the directions say to add it to the system and let it run for 4 hours to 4 days, if there is sediment to drain and rinse the cooling system, and it is not guaranteed to resolve the issue.
After a little debate with my self and talking with my brother(Rx7racer) I decided to go ahead and add it to my loop, its been about 12 hours now and there IS a difference.
My tubing has cleared up allot, and I am noticing the water in my res is no longer clear but cloudy. I will need to rinse my cooling loop, but the tubing looks 100% better now.

Before Primochill sys scrubber


12 hours after sys scrubber you can see where there is still some build up in the tubing.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DevilDriver*
> 
> Well I got the additive in from primochill, the directions say to add it to the system and let it run for 4 hours to 4 days, if there is sediment to drain and rinse the cooling system, and it is not guaranteed to resolve the issue.
> After a little debate with my self and talking with my brother(Rx7racer) I decided to go ahead and add it to my loop, its been about 12 hours now and there IS a difference.
> My tubing has cleared up allot, and I am noticing the water in my res is no longer clear but cloudy. I will need to rinse my cooling loop, but the tubing looks 100% better now.
> Before Primochill sys scrubber
> http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/959118/width/525/height/700/flags/
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 12 hours after sys scrubber you can see where there is still some build up in the tubing.
> http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/959122/width/600/height/450/flags/
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Is this additive a prototype product in testing or an actual product for sale?


----------



## DevilDriver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Is this additive a prototype product in testing or an actual product for sale?


It def seems to be a product in testing. Primochill sent it to me in response to my contacting them about my tubing clouding up.
I can not find any info about it doing a google search and they don't list it on there website. The bottle I received on 7-13-2012 had a manufacture date of 7-10-2012 printed on it.
I'm not sure what it is as the bottle doesn't say and the email I received just stated they were doing some testing, that the issue is not the tubing but another component in the system, and they would be willing to send me an additive to put in my loop to try and clean the tubing.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DevilDriver*
> 
> It def seems to be a product in testing. Primochill sent it to me in response to my contacting them about my tubing clouding up.
> I can not find any info about it doing a google search and they don't list it on there website. The bottle I received on 7-13-2012 had a manufacture date of 7-10-2012 printed on it.
> I'm not sure what it is as the bottle doesn't say and the email I received just stated they were doing some testing, that the issue is not the tubing but another component in the system, and they would be willing to send me an additive to put in my loop to try and clean the tubing.


If I were you I would go easy with this additive, what I'm trying to say is you don't know what is it and you don't know the affect its going to cause with your hardware. I nice and weird at the same time Primochill start to step up with they product. BUT the weird parts is the additive has no label saying what is in it and how it react with some Metal, cooper, Plating components even Acrylic. Some how this additive looks like some corrosive product. It eat up the stuff inside the tube like you said above. BUT,How do you know if this additive + build up stuff won't get gunked in the rest of you hardware? Is your system is 24/7 up and running? How it affect when your system if OFF? It does affect? it is a lot things you don't know like all of us here.

is any way you can turn your cathode light off and use some bright light and take some clear shot of you tubing and Res?

PS: We just try to help and understand how we or they can solve this and help others here with the same problem. so please don't get me wrong. we only have hope


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DevilDriver*
> 
> It def seems to be a product in testing. Primochill sent it to me in response to my contacting them about my tubing clouding up.
> I can not find any info about it doing a google search and they don't list it on there website. The bottle I received on 7-13-2012 had a manufacture date of 7-10-2012 printed on it.
> I'm not sure what it is as the bottle doesn't say and the email I received just stated they were doing some testing, that the issue is not the tubing but another component in the system, and they would be willing to send me an additive to put in my loop to try and clean the tubing.


It's nice to know their actually doing something about it, they could improve their communication skills a little bit after all of the angry customer's responses towards Primochill. If your results are typical we could see a fix shortly.


----------



## Capt Proton

So, Primochill says, not for the first time, it isn't the tubing. The manufacturer of any additive in the loop says, it's not the additive. The block manufacturer says it's not the block. The company that provides the distilled water says it's not the water.

So, what is it then? Oh, it must be our imaginations! I mean, these companies wouldn't lie to us just to make more money would they? Only if we are naive enough to believe their hype.

Hmm.... It appears we are.


----------



## opt33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toricred*
> 
> Well I spoke too soon. I just found the fittings in 7/16 by 5/8. Should I go with the 3/8 by 5/8 anyhow?


I prefer thicker tubing, less potential for issues. The flow difference between 7/16 ID and 3/8 ID is roughly 0.1 gpm, and cpu temp difference is 0.1C. Per cathars testing here.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> So, Primochill says, not for the first time, it isn't the tubing. The manufacturer of any additive in the loop says, it's not the additive. The block manufacturer says it's not the block. The company that provides the distilled water says it's not the water.
> 
> So, what is it then? Oh, it must be our imaginations! I mean, these companies wouldn't lie to us just to make more money would they? Only if we are naive enough to believe their hype.
> 
> Hmm.... It appears we are.


Let say the rads have something in them that is reacting with the tubing. You can look at it 2 ways.

1. It's the maker of the rad fault, because the tubing never had a problem until they started using brand X to flush the rads with.
2. It's the tubing's fault, because it can't handle what the rads are being flushed with.

Like I said earlier, something has changed in the loops, we don't know what it is, but at least they are trying to correct it. Maybe this is a quick fix and they are working on a new tubing as we speak or have gone back to their old tubing.


----------



## koxoxok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Let say the rads have something in them that is reacting with the tubing. You can look at it 2 ways.
> 1. It's the maker of the rad fault, because the tubing never had a problem until they started using brand X to flush the rads with.
> 2. It's the tubing's fault, because it can't handle what the rads are being flushed with.
> Like I said earlier, something has changed in the loops, we don't know what it is, but at least they are trying to correct it. Maybe this is a quick fix and they are working on a new tubing as we speak or have gone back to their old tubing.


Just wondering, even after you clean the tubings, will the plasticizer problem still continue to happen?


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *koxoxok*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Let say the rads have something in them that is reacting with the tubing. You can look at it 2 ways.
> 1. It's the maker of the rad fault, because the tubing never had a problem until they started using brand X to flush the rads with.
> 2. It's the tubing's fault, because it can't handle what the rads are being flushed with.
> Like I said earlier, something has changed in the loops, we don't know what it is, but at least they are trying to correct it. Maybe this is a quick fix and they are working on a new tubing as we speak or have gone back to their old tubing.
> 
> 
> 
> Just wondering, even after you clean the tubings, will the plasticizer problem still continue to happen?
Click to expand...

My question is, is it gunking up the block?


----------



## DevilDriver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> My question is, is it gunking up the block?


I hope not. I will be tearing my loop down tomorrow to flush it. the water is very murky after using the additive from primochill. It was clear before.
The tubing is all cleaned up now, and I will get some pic's before I break it down to flush it out.

I can say my temps are the same so so far no adverse effects, which I hope means my blocks are not gunked up any.


----------



## Systemlord

Come-on people haven't you guys been following Testing tubing thread? They put all brand of tubing in lab gars with distilled, distilled with silver coil, distilled with PT Nuke and distilled/silver/ PT Nuke. All of the tubing brands clearly had leeching with distilled water only, something has changed, the tubing! The leeching got worse when water temp pushed to 45C, tubing quality is the change.


----------



## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Come-on people haven't you guys been following Testing tubing thread? They put all brand of tubing in lab gars with distilled, distilled with silver coil, distilled with PT Nuke and distilled/silver/ PT Nuke. All of the tubing brands clearly had leeching with distilled water only, something has changed, the tubing! The leeching got worse when water temp pushed to 45C, tubing quality is the change.


The thing is, they only tested Tygon R3603 and Primochill Primoflex LRT tubing, which I've had issues with both personally. However, I've had no problems with Masterkleer / Durelene and have even conducted my own test showing they plasticize and cloud *much* slower than the Primochill tubing.


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Come-on people haven't you guys been following Testing tubing thread? They put all brand of tubing in lab gars with distilled, distilled with silver coil, distilled with PT Nuke and distilled/silver/ PT Nuke. All of the tubing brands clearly had leeching with distilled water only, something has changed, the tubing! The leeching got worse when water temp pushed to 45C, tubing quality is the change.


I'm not denying other tubing has issues. What I am focused on is the lies Primochill told me in an effort to deny all blame. I am sure other brands are doing the same thing, however, Priomochill are the ones that I was dealing with. They lied, broke their promise and tried their best to avoid any part in this whole mess. Not the way a reputable company acts.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Let say the rads have something in them that is reacting with the tubing. You can look at it 2 ways.
> 1. It's the maker of the rad fault, because the tubing never had a problem until they started using brand X to flush the rads with.
> 2. It's the tubing's fault, because it can't handle what the rads are being flushed with.
> Like I said earlier, something has changed in the loops, we don't know what it is, but at least they are trying to correct it. Maybe this is a quick fix and they are working on a new tubing as we speak or have gone back to their old tubing.


I'll believe that this is more than a public relations exercise when I see it. Proof or no change to my opinion. They have lost my trust and respect. No way they get it back easily.

I vote with my wallet. No more Primochill.


----------



## opt33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *koxoxok*
> 
> Just wondering, even after you clean the tubings, will the plasticizer problem still continue to happen?


I dont know about primochill, but tygon 3603 was first and most popular tubing used many years ago. About 7-9 yrs ago since tygon 3603 always leaches plasticizer, I and many others used gun cleaning equipment about 6 months during a tear down and clean, and cleaned all the tubing runs like cleaning a rifle barrel. After tubing was cleaned, if it did occur it was feint to point it was not noticeable.


----------



## TPE-331

Has anyone ordered the Norprene tubing from McMaster-Carr? I was thinking of buying some.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#norprene-tubing/=iflssj


----------



## AndresR

Guys, what's the best black colored tubing to use?

I was using Tygon R-3400 3/8" ID (1/2" OD) but has the plasticizer problem. Bought some Feeser Black, but it's a deep purple








Not sure if get norprene because I have some tight curves and don't want to use antikinks.


----------



## Lee17

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndresR*
> 
> Guys, what's the best black colored tubing to use?
> I was using Tygon R-3400 3/8" ID (1/2" OD) but has the plasticizer problem. Bought some Feeser Black, but it's a deep purple
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if get norprene because I have some tight curves and don't want to use antikinks.


I have black tubing from dazmode and it is black but I have the UV blue version. You maybe get a bad batch, idk.

I don't know if they have the plasticizer problem... I will see with time.

Im not a veteran in watercooling and I dont really know about which black tubing is currently the best... I only can say that the black UV from Feser look really black (with a tint of blue under day light, because of the UV blue)

Lee17


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lee17*
> 
> I have black tubing from dazmode and it is black but I have the UV blue version. You maybe get a bad batch, idk.
> I don't know if they have the plasticizer problem... I will see with time.
> Im not a veteran in watercooling and I dont really know about which black tubing is currently the best... I only can say that the black UV from Feser look really black (with a tint of blue under day light, because of the UV blue)
> Lee17


What does this mean? You have the black tubing but it is UV Blue? do you mean you have blue lights?


----------



## AndresR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> What does this mean? You have the black tubing but it is UV Blue? do you mean you have blue lights?


It's a dark purple, looks pretty bad in my rig







, here is an example: http://s16.postimage.org/r6hxxw0c5/Imagen_220.jpg, more pictures here: http://www.overclock.net/t/584302/ocn-water-cooling-club-and-picture-gallery/24280#post_17714855.


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndresR*
> 
> It's a dark purple, looks pretty bad in my rig
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , here is an example: http://s16.postimage.org/r6hxxw0c5/Imagen_220.jpg, more pictures here: http://www.overclock.net/t/584302/ocn-water-cooling-club-and-picture-gallery/24280#post_17714855.


My post was directed to the pers whom I quoted, Lee17.

Your post I understood.


----------



## Lee17

Sorry for my bad sentence.. lol second language fail again XD

I was trying to say that I have Feser Black UV Blue tubing and it look really black and not purple. Under UV light, it look blue, but under sunlight, it only have a blue tint . Without, it look dark black.

Sorry again, just trying to help









And yes, your Feser black tubing really look purple, that isn't really great

Lee17


----------



## jinsoup

DEHP (if PrimoChill has a DEHP problem) is soluble in oils...

Any strong smells coming out of the Primochill sample additive? Organic Solvent?

Any more speculation?


----------



## NASzi

Just a FYI Guys, I ordered 10 Ft of Durelene from Sidewinder a week ago and inquired about my order today, got this email from them:

I'm very sorry if you have not gotten an email, you should have received one regarding stock availability on our Durelene.
We have had a much higher demand spike than normal for this tube, and we ripped through the 300 feet we had in stock before last Friday evening.
My Tygon supplier has authorized us to ship in lieu of the Durelene, Tygon R3603 7/16 x 5/8 (AAC00033)
Would you be interested in this instead at the same price?

My Response

No! the reason the Durelene is shipping so fast is because it doesn't plasticize like all the other brands of tubing do and that's why I ordered it haha. Actually I'm in no rush for the tubing, just planned on swapping out my primo chill with this when it came in. Please keep my order the same, I will wait for the Durelene.

Then they replied with this

I'll keep your order handy. I am aware of what has been posted about the Durelene not clouding up, but like R3603 it does have plasticizer in it.
The truly plasticizer free stuff is a lot more expensive.
I'll let you know as soon as we get more in, the best ETA I was given was 7-31 - Saint Gobain was completely out and has to run it for us.


----------



## superericla

I got their last bit of Durelene. I ordered 20 feet of it and got an email saying they were sending me 19 feet since that's all they had left.


----------



## squick3n

I can imagine they are needing more of it. And it's really the only thing we can hope for. That our buying patterns force changes. The shops stop carrying the crap tubing, and start buying the plastecizer free stuff in larger quantities that hopefully brings down the costs


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NASzi*
> 
> Just a FYI Guys, I ordered 10 Ft of Durelene from Sidewinder a week ago and inquired about my order today, got this email from them:
> I'm very sorry if you have not gotten an email, you should have received one regarding stock availability on our Durelene.
> We have had a much higher demand spike than normal for this tube, and we ripped through the 300 feet we had in stock before last Friday evening.
> My Tygon supplier has authorized us to ship in lieu of the Durelene, Tygon R3603 7/16 x 5/8 (AAC00033)
> Would you be interested in this instead at the same price?
> My Response
> No! the reason the Durelene is shipping so fast is because it doesn't plasticize like all the other brands of tubing do and that's why I ordered it haha. Actually I'm in no rush for the tubing, just planned on swapping out my primo chill with this when it came in. Please keep my order the same, I will wait for the Durelene.
> Then they replied with this
> I'll keep your order handy. I am aware of what has been posted about the Durelene not clouding up, but like R3603 it does have plasticizer in it.
> The truly plasticizer free stuff is a lot more expensive.
> I'll let you know as soon as we get more in, the best ETA I was given was 7-31 - Saint Gobain was completely out and has to run it for us.


Nice to see it out of stock







it means this thread did speak OUT LOUD








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superericla*
> 
> I got their last bit of Durelene. I ordered 20 feet of it and got an email saying they were sending me 19 feet since that's all they had left.


Pic's or never happen J/K.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squick3n*
> 
> I can imagine they are needing more of it. And it's really the only thing we can hope for. That our buying patterns force changes. The shops stop carrying the crap tubing, and start buying the plastecizer free stuff in larger quantities that hopefully brings down the costs


This is only matter of time. They going to wipe all the shelves with this crap tubing and start selling some good stuff at low price. that's why I have and will keep saying don't buy anything that cloud's bad and generate creme cheese inside







like Primochill LRT. I know a lot people like colored tubing and it does looks nice but if you look the other side ( your hardware and you pocket $$ ) it wont pay the damage.

Tomorrow i will have some new update in all my tubing Main RiG ( Clear tubing + Distilled water + Kill Coil / Plasticizer Test Bench RiG Distilled Water + Mayhems red Dye.


----------



## Chris123NT

Wow, glad I got 20 feet of the durelene, enough for me to redo my whole loop if necessary.

Anyway after a week my tubing had not clouded AT ALL. So this is looking very promising so far.


----------



## zzzz

z


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chris123NT*
> 
> Wow, glad I got 20 feet of the durelene, enough for me to redo my whole loop if necessary.
> Anyway after a week my tubing had not clouded AT ALL. So this is looking very promising so far.


Nice







, when you have a chance post some pics of you old tubing and new tubing i like to see that.


----------



## Chris123NT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Nice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , when you have a chance post some pics of you old tubing and new tubing i like to see that.


I did right here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/1040#post_17699184

I actually think you saw it already lol.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chris123NT*
> 
> I did right here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/1040#post_17699184
> I actually think you saw it already lol.


UUUUUps


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *McRey*
> 
> Ty Bro it gave me some option for!! next tubbing!! But i already ordered my primochill tubbing 3 days ago!! and now i just wait for it arrived!! I will tested it and if it happened like others, i will try ure suggestion to go with this durelene tubbing!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *toricred*
> 
> Well I spoke too soon. I just found the fittings in 7/16 by 5/8. Should I go with the 3/8 by 5/8 anyhow?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 7/16 by 5/8 more flow
Click to expand...

Flow doesn't matter, the operating temp will even out to be the same one way or the other. If you bought 3/8x5/8 tubing stick with that size fittings. The only time I would recommend using a different size fitting is with a smaller tubing for a clampless setup. i.e. 1/2" barbs with 7/16 ID tubing.









Apologies if I'm late to this conversation.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chris123NT*
> 
> Wow, glad I got 20 feet of the durelene, enough for me to redo my whole loop if necessary.
> 
> Anyway after a week my tubing had not clouded AT ALL. So this is looking very promising so far.


Damn bro how big is that case that you would need 20 feet of tubing?







lol

~Ceadder


----------



## Nanaya Ryougi

I got a phone call from Petras and they told me the same thing. They stocked out on Duralene super quick, with it selling in batches of 30 to 40 ft in a few days and that I may not get mine for a week or so (which I don't mind at all). They are aware of this exact forum thread as well.

Cool guys, calling me directly to tell me. I'm glad they did, that's some awesome customer service right there.


----------



## ElGreco

Obviously, there are many people watching this thread and this sudden-high demand for durelene is the result of it.

What concerns me though is,... Is Durelene the actual solution to the problem, or just a temporary way out of the problems caused by other tubes. In simple words, i would not like to see the other manufacturers stop their efforts to find the REAL solution - reason of the problem, because of the (perhaps temporary) Durelene solution.


----------



## TPE-331

Add me to the Durelene list, just ordered 25 feet of 1/2" x 3/4" from Gary at Sidewinders to replace the Primochill in both of my rigs. The Durelene is a temporary solution until Primochill can resolve their issue.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DevilDriver*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> My question is, is it gunking up the block?
> 
> 
> 
> I hope not. I will be tearing my loop down tomorrow to flush it. the water is very murky after using the additive from primochill. It was clear before.
> The tubing is all cleaned up now, and I will get some pic's before I break it down to flush it out.
> 
> I can say my temps are the same so so far no adverse effects, which I hope means my blocks are not gunked up any.
Click to expand...

Any updates?


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Any updates?


I was supposed to give you guys some update but had some up and down situation and i could not update it







but i think my word count for now, My Durelene still holding up so good still clear and no cloud and I think we just found something that not going to gunk up in our blocks till other brands like Primochill decides to fix they issue. so since 6/15/12 post #796 39 days after its looks the same to me







i will post some pics ASAP


----------



## Nanaya Ryougi

Anyone have any results on any testing for any XSPC Tubing? Or is it safe to assume that there is no safe alternative when it comes to plasticizer issues on colored tubing?


----------



## duhjuh

i had a pump power disconnect on me while the system was live (luckly i was only browsing my cmos) and obviously ly this got the water in my block super hot i saw air runnign slowly through a tube with what seemed to be no flow and realize the pump was off when i touched my oc cool t block and it burnt me a lil(it was obviously sinking the heat) i immediatly powered off and re powered the pump on its own with the system off to cool the loop however not the tube leading from my cpu inlets cloudy is this plastisizer due to exceeding the tubings temp rating? it should be noted a drained a few ml of water into a clear glass to check it out and it was perfect color i am using distilled water a kill coil and primochill dye my tubing is clear primochill 3/8 id 5/8 od tubing
thoughts?
ohyeah and ive been running clamp-less on bitspower deep red barbs for over 3 months though 3 different setups no issues to date in regards to leeks due to tubes popping off
also here is link to my system
http://www.overclock.net/t/1278662/flagshipii-haf-932-triple-120-140/0_20#post_17769837
i did have phobia fitting leak on me though..im sticking to bitspower and oc cool now for rotaries at least


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Any updates?
> 
> 
> 
> I was supposed to give you guys some update but had some up and down situation and i could not update it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but i think my word count for now, My Durelene still holding up so good still clear and no cloud and I think we just found something that not going to gunk up in our blocks till other brands like Primochill decides to fix they issue. so since 6/15/12 post #796 39 days after its looks the same to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i will post some pics ASAP
Click to expand...

I was hoping to find out what the loop looked like after the use of the additive.


----------



## BBHP

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nanaya Ryougi*
> 
> Anyone have any results on any testing for any XSPC Tubing? Or is it safe to assume that there is no safe alternative when it comes to plasticizer issues on colored tubing?


I am using primochill 1/2in and xspc 7/16 tubing, both went cloudy within 2 weeks. Primochill loop is DI water with silver coil, the xspc is DI water and liquid utopia. I might get white tubing for my next build so I won't notice the discolouration.


----------



## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> i had a pump power disconnect on me while the system was live (luckly i was only browsing my cmos) and obviously ly this got the water in my block super hot i saw air runnign slowly through a tube with what seemed to be no flow and realize the pump was off when i touched my oc cool t block and it burnt me a lil(it was obviously sinking the heat) i immediatly powered off and re powered the pump on its own with the system off to cool the loop however not the tube leading from my cpu inlets cloudy is this plastisizer due to exceeding the tubings temp rating? it should be noted a drained a few ml of water into a clear glass to check it out and it was perfect color i am using distilled water a kill coil and primochill dye my tubing is clear primochill 3/8 id 5/8 od tubing
> thoughts?
> ohyeah and ive been running clamp-less on bitspower deep red barbs for over 3 months though 3 different setups no issues to date in regards to leeks due to tubes popping off
> also here is link to my system
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1278662/flagshipii-haf-932-triple-120-140/0_20#post_17769837
> i did have phobia fitting leak on me though..im sticking to bitspower and oc cool now for rotaries at least


anyone on this?


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> i had a pump power disconnect on me while the system was live (luckly i was only browsing my cmos) and obviously ly this got the water in my block super hot i saw air runnign slowly through a tube with what seemed to be no flow and realize the pump was off when i touched my oc cool t block and it burnt me a lil(it was obviously sinking the heat) i immediatly powered off and re powered the pump on its own with the system off to cool the loop however not the tube leading from my cpu inlets cloudy is this plastisizer due to exceeding the tubings temp rating? it should be noted a drained a few ml of water into a clear glass to check it out and it was perfect color i am using distilled water a kill coil and primochill dye my tubing is clear primochill 3/8 id 5/8 od tubing
> thoughts?
> ohyeah and ive been running clamp-less on bitspower deep red barbs for over 3 months though 3 different setups no issues to date in regards to leeks due to tubes popping off
> also here is link to my system
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1278662/flagshipii-haf-932-triple-120-140/0_20#post_17769837
> i did have phobia fitting leak on me though..im sticking to bitspower and oc cool now for rotaries at least
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> anyone on this?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

just get rid of the Primochill tubing and specially the DYE, Primochill DYE do they crystallizer inside the block and it GUNK for good. right now your only option is http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/dupvctu3id5o.html Durelene 3/8 - 5/8 + Mayhems Dye
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BBHP*
> 
> I am using primochill 1/2in and xspc 7/16 tubing, both went cloudy within 2 weeks. Primochill loop is DI water with silver coil, the xspc is DI water and liquid utopia. I might get white tubing for my next build so I won't notice the discolouration.


Here is your option Durelene Tubing I have Durelene in both of my loop. Durelene + Dist Water + kill coil and Durelene + Dist Water + Mayhems Dye Red. and my tubing looks good so far and it has passed 40 days







I'm the one that need to update the tubing test but i cannot find a time to take some nice shots and post back, i will do this this week. sorry for the delay guys but will going to keep my word's.


----------



## Mayhem

We got some new tubing and copper though our door today to run extended testing. Im going to say i feel ashamhed now as i forgot whom sent me it (please speak up) as i would like to thank you for that.

Weve had to take our testing privet because the things we have found out need to be passed onto the resellers , makers so they can have a chance to sort the problems out. we don't want to cause any issues between us and them type thing.we feel there is too much pointing the finger and not enough (here you go hope this helps).

mick


----------



## Ceadderman

Excellent. Glad to hear this.









Finger pointing has never solved a problem in the history of mankind. I don't know why it's such a popular thing to do.









~Ceadder


----------



## squick3n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mayhem*
> 
> We got some new tubing and copper though our door today to run extended testing. Im going to say i feel ashamhed now as i forgot whom sent me it (please speak up) as i would like to thank you for that.
> Weve had to take our testing privet because the things we have found out need to be passed onto the resellers , makers so they can have a chance to sort the problems out. we don't want to cause any issues between us and them type thing.we feel there is too much pointing the finger and not enough (here you go hope this helps).
> mick


I do respect your position since you need to work with these people to make money. But as a consumer, far too much of this is private. Not one of the resellers or manufacturers has spoken out or offered guidance. Their position is simply "Plasticizer leech? I don't know what you are talking about. Buy more fittings and blocks and tubing"


----------



## Mayhem

TBH were working with several resellers to solve this issue in the UK. This shouldn't be down to the resellers as they only supply the products and then have to deal with the backlash which is not there fault. How ever if say a product is de funked and not working and we show the reasons why, then if they are not fixed then said resellers will pull the line of products and replace it with some thing more suitable. In theory ofc ...


----------



## skyn3t

Mayhem, am still waiting very patience.







.
Today I had a send a Email to Gary ( SidewindersComputers.Com ) as we know He is one of our OCN Hardware REP Watercooling Vendor if he can help us with those test. He has done such a great costumer support for all of us and been very honest with the entire community not only OCN but i mean worldwide


----------



## Mayhem

i wish i had more time how ever Mayhems has come on in such leaps and bounds all our time has been taken up with production how ever were still running tests and still trying to see what the route cause is. I can say how ever heat has a massive impact on most makers of tubing and is the biggest enemy. This will explain why every one is getting different results. No matter if you use one brand of DI water or another and no matter what type of coolant or mix you use the end result is the same. We found a 35c is were problems start appearing and going up to 45c you see a massive impact.

All so once tubing starts to leach the fluid starts to precipitate the problem more.

Mind you i have another theory as well and it us the "consumer" to blame too, We maybe asking for too much e.g clear tubing that is more flexible that doesn't leach .. bit like mission impossible unless some one invents such tubing....


----------



## Ceadderman

Uh oh Mayhem, now you gone an done it. Blaming the consumer is rather frowned up here at OCN.









I see what you're saying though. It is rather difficult to make flexible tubing without plasticizer.









~Ceadder


----------



## duhjuh

i know my primochill pro tubing (3/8x5/8) only got cloudly after it hit super high water temps from a pump disconnect ...before that i never had any plasticize problems ever ...i am thinking im going to ditch primochill dyes though it takes waaaayyyyy to much dye to get the effect i wanted (almost black blood red)
you guys think a pastel from mayhem + a large amount of his red would yield an almost solid looking blood red (non transparent blood red?)


----------



## NASzi

not sure but I put about 25-30 drops of red in my distilled water and got a pretty dark red, not black by any means but it looks damn good, seems to me that the pastel would only lighten the color, not darken it. You probably need to mix red and purple somehow to get that affect.


----------



## Mayhem

what colour you after i don't understand. do u have a pic.


----------



## squick3n

I'm using the White Pastel with a few drops of purple. Essentially opaque. Really a cool look. I almost want to buy more colors just to experiment
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> i know my primochill pro tubing (3/8x5/8) only got cloudly after it hit super high water temps from a pump disconnect ...before that i never had any plasticize problems ever ...i am thinking im going to ditch primochill dyes though it takes waaaayyyyy to much dye to get the effect i wanted (almost black blood red)
> you guys think a pastel from mayhem + a large amount of his red would yield an almost solid looking blood red (non transparent blood red?)


----------



## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NASzi*
> 
> not sure but I put about 25-30 drops of red in my distilled water and got a pretty dark red, not black by any means but it looks damn good, seems to me that the pastel would only lighten the color, not darken it. You probably need to mix red and purple somehow to get that affect.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mayhem*
> 
> what colour you after i don't understand. do u have a pic.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squick3n*
> 
> I'm using the White Pastel with a few drops of purple. Essentially opaque. Really a cool look. I almost want to buy more colors just to experiment


i want to go for an extremely dark non transparent red

like this
http://cdn.overclock.net/c/c1/600x450px-LL-c1741370_20120110_204746.jpeg
only darker


----------



## Mayhem

Oky use red and blue, add the red till you get the colour you need and i would use the Mayhems pastel red to start with. Then once you have the deep red add 1 drop of blue at a time and it will turn dark red. When i say 1 drop at a time i really mean that just a tiny drop of blue mix it in then wait, then add a second drop.

Job done


----------



## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mayhem*
> 
> Oky use red and blue, add the red till you get the colour you need and i would use the Mayhems pastel red to start with. Then once you have the deep red add 1 drop of blue at a time and it will turn dark red. When i say 1 drop at a time i really mean that just a tiny drop of blue mix it in then wait, then add a second drop.
> Job done


thanks and of course rep up!


----------



## DevilDriver

ok, sorry pic's are not great, all I have is my old iphone. So I ran the Primochill sys scrubber for a little over a week, directions say run it for four days.
Contacting Primochill after receiving it I was told it may need to be left in the loop for longer than four days to clean heavy deposits.
first pic is before sys scrubber, second pic is what came out of my loop after sys scrubber and following pic's are after sys scrubber.
NOTE: loop is distilled water and silver kill coil only.

Also when I asked how to previent the issue from happening again I was told
"As far as keeping your system clean we recommend NOT using just water and a Silver Coil. We can recommend using our "liquid utopia" in your system with DI water and this will protect your systems at all times against "build up", and other "nasties" that could make there way into your system"


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DevilDriver*
> 
> ok, sorry pic's are not great, all I have is my old iphone. So I ran the Primochill sys scrubber for a little over a week, directions say run it for four days.
> Contacting Primochill after receiving it I was told it may need to be left in the loop for longer than four days to clean heavy deposits.
> first pic is before sys scrubber, second pic is what came out of my loop after sys scrubber and following pic's are after sys scrubber.
> NOTE: loop is distilled water and silver kill coil only.
> Also when I asked how to previent the issue from happening again I was told
> "As far as keeping your system clean we recommend NOT using just water and a Silver Coil. We can recommend using our "liquid utopia" in your system with DI water and this will protect your systems at all times against "build up", and other "nasties" that could make there way into your system"
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


What is that? can you show a side view in a clear cup or whatever you have. to take clear shot photo just use anything like a support for you Iphone and dont use flash or any light just as you did here the phot will be very clear. thank you


----------



## DevilDriver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> What is that? can you show a side view in a clear cup or whatever you have. to take clear shot photo just use anything like a support for you Iphone and dont use flash or any light just as you did here the phot will be very clear. thank you


Sadly I already dumped the liquid from my loop.
That is what came out of my loop after running the Primochill sys scrubber they sent me. The loop was distilled water and silver kill coil only.
So what you see there is what the sys scrubber cleaned off the walls of the tubing.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DevilDriver*
> 
> Sadly I already dumped the liquid from my loop.
> That is what came out of my loop after running the Primochill sys scrubber they sent me. The loop was distilled water and silver kill coil only.
> So what you see there is what the sys scrubber cleaned off the walls of the tubing.


man i was going to ask you to send it to me







but too late now GOSH....
what color is that thing? looks like Petroleum .Is this tick liquid what it looks like ? can you describe it ? sorry for all those question but I have to ask.


----------



## Ceadderman

Hmmm is that dye colored plasticizer I see before me? I think I am glad I didn't use Killcoil.









*yes I am aware that it's Distilled and plasticizer.









~Ceadder


----------



## DevilDriver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> man i was going to ask you to send it to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but too late now GOSH....
> what color is that thing? looks like Petroleum .Is this tick liquid what it looks like ? can you describe it ? sorry for all those question but I have to ask.


It was exactly the purple color it looks like, with abit more haze to it. it wasnt thick at all but the normal consistency of water.
What I'm guessing is that is the plasticizer with dye the tubing is colored with, as the sys scrubber was clear.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Hmmm is that dye colored plasticizer I see before me? I think I am glad I didn't use Killcoil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *yes I am aware that it's Distilled and plasticizer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


I think you nailed it ceadderman, the plasticizer has dye leached from the tubing.


----------



## Systemlord

I am confused, if you started out with DI water and a silver kill coil why is there purple dye in your loop after completely draining your loop?


----------



## sticks435

I believe it's the dye from the tubing. Whatever Primochill gave him to clean the plasticizer must have eaten some color off the tubes too.


----------



## DevilDriver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> I am confused, if you started out with DI water and a silver kill coil why is there purple dye in your loop after completely draining your loop?


As sticks435 stated, what ever is in the sys scrubber that Primochill sent me must have pulled some of the lining of the tubing when it cleaned the plasticizer, or when the plasticizer leached from the tubing it pulled some of the dye from the tubing with it. How ever it happened the purple color in the wataer I drained from my loop is from the tubing.


----------



## gerrardo

I vaguely remember posting something about being weary over anything primochill says to add to the loop. I'm sure glad you emptied that loop and got all of that out of there!


----------



## DevilDriver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gerrardo*
> 
> I vaguely remember posting something about being weary over anything primochill says to add to the loop. I'm sure glad you emptied that loop and got all of that out of there!


I'm glad also, I was very concerned about clogging up my my gpu and cpu blocks. Every thing seems ok, and my tubing is as nice as the day it was initially installed.
What I'm curious about now is if the tubing stays nice or if it gets all hazy/foggy from plasticizer again.

If it stays nice then Primochill has a product that can clean the loops up and a simple flush and refill and they look good again.


----------



## Systemlord

So I am guessing that for those that still have to purchase Primochill tubing needs to flush their loop with this sys scrubber before use...


----------



## DevilDriver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> So I am guessing that for those that still have to purchase Primochill tubing needs to flush their loop with this sys scrubber before use...


From my understanding sys scrubber is a proto type thing. Bottle says not for resale, and use at your own risk. They sent it to me in response to my contacting them about how bad my tubing was that I purchased in March and installed in April.
Over all I'm happy as I still have half the roll of tubing I purchased left and didn't have to redo the loop, but rather just add this stuff and flush and refill.
As stated though, now to see if it lasts or if the tubing fogs/clouds again.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DevilDriver*
> 
> It was exactly the purple color it looks like, with abit more haze to it. it wasnt thick at all but the normal consistency of water.
> What I'm guessing is that is the plasticizer with dye the tubing is colored with, as the sys scrubber was clear.
> I think you nailed it ceadderman, the plasticizer has dye leached from the tubing.


it is for sure
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sticks435*
> 
> I believe it's the dye from the tubing. Whatever Primochill gave him to clean the plasticizer must have eaten some color off the tubes too.


If i were you I would open the block and check everything closely specialty the pump. have you checked the pump speed after the sys scrubber ?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DevilDriver*
> 
> I'm glad also, I was very concerned about clogging up my my gpu and cpu blocks. Every thing seems ok, and my tubing is as nice as the day it was initially installed.
> What I'm curious about now is if the tubing stays nice or if it gets all hazy/foggy from plasticizer again.
> *If it stays nice then Primochill has a product that can clean the loops up and a simple flush and refill and they look good again*.


in certain point you are right but the question is. How long and how often you will need this sys scrubber running in the loop? and how good or bad is this sys scrubber?if this stuff can eat the the stuff inside the tubing and eat a bit of the tubing color how good or bad it will be for the pump? pump is plastic inside at least have some plastic?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> So I am guessing that for those that still have to purchase Primochill tubing needs to flush their loop with this sys scrubber before use...


I haven't stated it before because I did forgot to mention. Lazyman has build a water cooling flush loop to flush all the loop hardware. I have got my own parts and made a very similar Flush system like the one he showed in he's YouTube channel How To 



. I will repost it because I know a lot people has missed it.
A two weeks ago i had flushed one big entire system that was running Distilled Water + PT Nuke + Red Dye ( i don't know the Dye Brand ). After the system has been cleaned all the water in a bucket turn out dark pink because the Red Dye that the Owner has used in the past i assume about 8 months ago. Four months with Red Dye and 4 Months with Clear water and the System had a clear water inside the date I received it to do my work. For the past 15 minutes i was watching it very closely but after that I did left it running for about a hour. When i got back to check it out I saw the water all pink Two ( 2 ) gallon of Distilled water + One table spoon of vinegar was completely PINK. Even when you do a normal flush you do think is all clean but the hardware still have some colored stuff stuck in some point inside the loop maybe not in the hardware but in the Tubing. If you just get rid of the dye and run clear water + any Biocides.The residue of the DYE stays there a bit because i saw it when I flushed the system. The loop water plus this big filter catch's everything. I whish I had take the photos but unfortunally My phone was broken and wife had the camera that day so too bad. But here we go this is what I use to flush my All the RiG's with Water Loop.

This is the *DIY Water Cooler Flush System* ( not my invention but it is 



 Invention.

Parts List

One - AgroMax 250 GPH SUBMERSIBLE WATER PUMP
Two - Rubber grommets 3/4 ( Had it in my tool Box don't remember when i got those ) US $17.95 + shipping = $22.44






Durelene PVC tubing 7/16in. ID 5/8in. OD by Saint-Gobain Couple feet.
Two - Bitspower G 1/4 Matte Black 1/2in. ID Barb - BP-MBWP-C01 I Always have some extra fitting's ( Everyone must have ) $2.99 each
GE Opaq Whole House System
$18.97.








Ain't Pay $41.98 just for GE Clear Whole House System. and Shut off Valve.
Two - GE Spun Fiber, Replace Filter 2-Pack $9.97 /EA-Each
One - Leaktite 2-Gal. Bucket with $3.58 Lid $1.98

Total= $62.92









With this System you can FLUSH all your loop







quick and easy.


----------



## skyn3t

Hey guys got some news. Mayhems ( Mick ) your packaged just got in my door today like you promised. All the good stuff in my hands now check it out below.

Everything was well pack in a bubble wrap and each bottle has child safety caps (







I have two kids )



*Mayhems Dye 10ml Blue | Yellow | Red | Purple | Orange | UV C/B | UV Green | UV Y/G | UV Pink |*



*Mayhems Pastel - Ice White 250ml Concentrate | Mayhems X1 - Clear 250ml Concentrate |*



*Mayhems Fine Silver coil | Mayhems 10ml Biocides ExtremeContains - Contains copper sulphate With PH Chart |*



Now you guys tell me with color you want me to add to the loop for testing.

Today i will going to have some extra time for my updates.

Thanks you Mick / Mayhems for all your support you have and sill doing a great work in our community +Rep. I'm about to build another loop for testing I had sent some email and I'm waiting for the feedback.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Hey guys got some news. Mayhems ( Mick ) your packaged just got in my door today like you promised. All the good stuff in my hands now check it out below.
> 
> Everything was well pack in a bubble wrap and each bottle has child safety caps (
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have two kids )
> 
> 
> 
> *Mayhems Dye 10ml Blue | Yellow | Red | Purple | Orange | UV C/B | UV Green | UV Y/G | UV Pink |*
> 
> 
> 
> *Mayhems Pastel - Ice White 250ml Concentrate | Mayhems X1 - Clear 250ml Concentrate |*
> 
> 
> 
> *Mayhems Fine Silver coil | Mayhems 10ml Biocides ExtremeContains - Contains copper sulphate With PH Chart |*
> 
> 
> 
> Now you guys tell me with color you want me to add to the loop for testing.
> 
> Today i will going to have some extra time for my updates.
> 
> Thanks you Mick / Mayhems for all your support you have and sill doing a great work in our community +Rep. I'm about to build another loop for testing I had sent some email and I'm waiting for the feedback.


You better + Rep him everyday for a year, that's a lot of dye! I say orange


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> You better + Rep him everyday for a year, that's a lot of dye! I say orange


I was thinking on Orange







. since i have two loop what would be the other color?


----------



## Ceadderman

I say you need to make blood red since Mayhem told you how to make it here in this thread.









~Ceadder


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I say you need to make blood red since Mayhem told you how to make it here in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


I think that was for the Pastel, but they have it on their website for the dyes too. Be careful with adding the blue, you need to dilute it first, or it will end up as grape.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I say you need to make blood red since Mayhem told you how to make it here in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> I think that was for the Pastel, but they have it on their website for the dyes too. Be careful with adding the blue, you need to dilute it first, or it will end up as grape.


About the Patel Coolant I will going to start with the pure Ice White and run for few days and after that i can change the color









if you guys want to see some very vivid color and read about Mayhems Dye | UV. just wrote it today

[Review ] Mayhems Dye | UV By skyn3t just a sneak pick


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I say you need to make blood red since Mayhem told you how to make it here in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> I think that was for the Pastel, but they have it on their website for the dyes too. Be careful with adding the blue, you need to dilute it first, or it will end up as grape.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> About the Patel Coolant I will going to start with the pure Ice White and run for few days and after that i can change the color
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if you guys want to see some very vivid color and read about Mayhems Dye | UV. just wrote it today
> 
> [Review ] Mayhems Dye | UV By skyn3t just a sneak pick
Click to expand...

Great pics








You need a black light


----------



## skyn3t

double post sorry


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Great pics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need a black light


I know, sadly that i don't have one in hands now


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Great pics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need a black light
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know, sadly that i don't have one in hands now
Click to expand...

I can mail you a small strip of Modeler's Brand UV LED's to you as a freebee for the work you have been doing. You can check them out in my sig under reviews, they are much brighter that what the pics make them out to be. The pics I put up are for color only, that little strip lit up the room


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> I can mail you a small strip of Modeler's Brand UV LED's to you as a freebee for the work you have been doing. You can check them out in my sig under reviews, they are much brighter that what the pics make them out to be. The pics I put up are for color only, that little strip lit up the room


Hey GoodInk, that will be awesome







bud. I can install it in my RiG and light up with the UV Dye














PM with info on the way

edited: let's round this +rep for 200







for your support.


----------



## GoodInk

50 more to go







Is it just me or do people not + Rep as much with the new look to OCN?


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> 50 more to go
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it just me or do people not + Rep as much with the new look to OCN?


Cause we can't do emoticons in Rep anymore.







lol

I still do it but some people don't.

~Ceadder


----------



## jinsoup

Good to hear that we finally have a larger pool of users taking advice from this thread.
With a larger sample size we can finally begin to take some data on the true integrity of this Duralene tubing.

My 1/2x3/4" still has not clouded so, hope the rest of you have the same results.

+1 rep for all the color reviews, was just reading the most peculiar thing about Mayhem's products though....
bleh just another flamer on the RR forums probably.


----------



## Warrior1986

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> it is for sure
> If i were you I would open the block and check everything closely specialty the pump. have you checked the pump speed after the sys scrubber ?
> in certain point you are right but the question is. How long and how often you will need this sys scrubber running in the loop? and how good or bad is this sys scrubber?if this stuff can eat the the stuff inside the tubing and eat a bit of the tubing color how good or bad it will be for the pump? pump is plastic inside at least have some plastic?
> I haven't stated it before because I did forgot to mention. Lazyman has build a water cooling flush loop to flush all the loop hardware. I have got my own parts and made a very similar Flush system like the one he showed in he's YouTube channel How To
> 
> 
> 
> . I will repost it because I know a lot people has missed it.
> A two weeks ago i had flushed one big entire system that was running Distilled Water + PT Nuke + Red Dye ( i don't know the Dye Brand ). After the system has been cleaned all the water in a bucket turn out dark pink because the Red Dye that the Owner has used in the past i assume about 8 months ago. Four months with Red Dye and 4 Months with Clear water and the System had a clear water inside the date I received it to do my work. For the past 15 minutes i was watching it very closely but after that I did left it running for about a hour. When i got back to check it out I saw the water all pink Two ( 2 ) gallon of Distilled water + One table spoon of vinegar was completely PINK. Even when you do a normal flush you do think is all clean but the hardware still have some colored stuff stuck in some point inside the loop maybe not in the hardware but in the Tubing. If you just get rid of the dye and run clear water + any Biocides.The residue of the DYE stays there a bit because i saw it when I flushed the system. The loop water plus this big filter catch's everything. I whish I had take the photos but unfortunally My phone was broken and wife had the camera that day so too bad. But here we go this is what I use to flush my All the RiG's with Water Loop.
> This is the *DIY Water Cooler Flush System* ( not my invention but it is
> 
> 
> 
> Invention.
> Parts List
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> One - AgroMax 250 GPH SUBMERSIBLE WATER PUMP
> Two - Rubber grommets 3/4 ( Had it in my tool Box don't remember when i got those ) US $17.95 + shipping = $22.44
> 
> 
> 
> Durelene PVC tubing 7/16in. ID 5/8in. OD by Saint-Gobain Couple feet.
> Two - Bitspower G 1/4 Matte Black 1/2in. ID Barb - BP-MBWP-C01 I Always have some extra fitting's ( Everyone must have ) $2.99 each
> GE Opaq Whole House System
> $18.97.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't Pay $41.98 just for GE Clear Whole House System. and Shut off Valve.
> Two - GE Spun Fiber, Replace Filter 2-Pack $9.97 /EA-Each
> One - Leaktite 2-Gal. Bucket with $3.58 Lid $1.98
> Total= $62.92
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With this System you can FLUSH all your loop
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quick and easy.


Wow, this is crazy but I did the EXACT same thing with my build and I haven't seen this video before or know who LazyMan is. What are the odds huh?

From my build log:


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Wow, this is crazy but I did the EXACT same thing with my build and I haven't seen this video before or know who LazyMan is. What are the odds huh?
> From my build log:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Hey Warrior1986 lol.

I just have some new about Durelene tubing my update will be up in about one hour or two. got some new pics and as far all my test it's holding up for sure the tubing is good but no ...... to be continued tonight.


----------



## skyn3t

I'm back again.This tubing was added on June 23 / 2012 post #863 35 Days with Mayhems Red Dye + Distilled Water.Again today is the Dust clean day BHD and Wife's PC down for Dust clean.

Ok now,take a good look in all those pictures because i just found something very strange in this Durelene tubing and i will explain a bit what i think it is and how its occur during the processes.


First Test :
*Durelene* used in the Plasticizer Test Bench for 35 Days with Mayhems Red Dye + Distilled Water 
*Durelene* below Virgin Tubing


B]Durelene[/B] used in the Plasticizer Test Bench


*Durelene* below Virgin Tubing


Here you can see very clear that It had clouded. But don't judge it yet keep looking below


LOL and here you cannot tell which tube is used or virgin







very ODD








the *Top Tubing Durelene* is the tubing used on Plasticizer Test Bench but if you take a good looking you will see that is has water inside ( ODD right ) "WTH" *How far Durelene can cloud?*


*Now look this picture* posted by Martinm210 post #755 16 months with *Filtered tap water and PTnuke and Duralene.*
It does looks the same as Martinm210 posted gosh this is very ODD.

Now both Durelene tubing filled with water.*U*sed and *V*irgin tubing. Can you see any difference?






*Y*ellow cap : Durelene Virgin | *W*hite Cap : Used Durelene for 35 Day 24/7 Distilled Water + Mayhems Red Dye
























*Top tubing* White Cap : Durelene Used for 35 Day 24/7 Distilled Water + Mayhems Red Dye


*R*ight : Virgin Durelene | *L*eft : Used Durelene


*R*ight : Used Durelene | *L*eft : Virgin Durelene


*T*op : Used Durelene | *B*ottom : Virgin Durelene


*A*s you can see Durelene had cloud up a bit and we all know the Durelene is not Plasticizer free.But for 35 days running 24/7 this is good result. and looks like it won't cloud far more ,Post mentioned above . 16months with *Filtered tap water and PTnuke and Duralene.* post #755 and very ODD when tubing is wet ( I mean water inside it won't show any cloud in the tubing only if you get a virgin tubing and put it side by side. My Distilled Water + Mayhems Red Dye had never changed its color while it was running.

I may not be 100% right but a none free plasticizer tubing cloud bad because of the cloud stuff buildup inside that's were the DYE stain it so bad. But looks like this is no the Mayhems Dye







. Durelene had clouded but not stained by Mayhems Dye.

Durelene has resisted cold and heat for the cheap price its not bad at all. This is how it looks like after I had cut the tubing in half and cleaned it with my finger. It come out very easy. I had to rotate the camera view angle for in all my shots to make sure the light reflection won't messed up my pics so no doubt. you know what is the wiped clear tubing below





























Thank for all you guys support. I will continue all my tests for more several months and i will try to keep this thread update as much as I can.

PS: sorry for the Lego and Dinosaurs Books LOL my son kevin "my 7 old" was helping me


----------



## skyn3t

Plasticizer Test Bench now running Distilled Water + Mayhems Biocides + UV Pink ( Wife's choice ) and i did some work in the Test bench added hot swap drive cage from my corsair 800D re-do the cable new tubing.


----------



## Warrior1986

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> *R*ight : Virgin Durelene | *L*eft : Used Durelene
> 
> *R*ight : Used Durelene | *L*eft : Virgin Durelene


Call me crazy, and it's possible that this monitor at work is horribly calibrated, but to me it looks BETTER than it does new as it no longer has the strange greenish tint that the virgin tubing has. If so, holy crap because that would mean tubing that looks better the longer you use it, which is unheard of.


----------



## pvt.joker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Call me crazy, and it's possible that this monitor at work is horribly calibrated, but to me it looks BETTER than it does new as it no longer has the strange greenish tint that the virgin tubing has. If so, holy crap because that would mean tubing that looks better the longer you use it, which is unheard of.


Glad i wasn't the only one that saw that.. the text was easier for me to read through the used tubing than the new..


----------



## NASzi

same thing here haha


----------



## taotree

My XSPC Raystorm kit is arriving on Thursday with 1/2" ID, 3/4" OD Duralene tubing from Sidewinder Computers. It comes with both a killcoil and Petra's Tech PT Nuke Biocide.

I have a somewhat unique situation in that I'll be using very pure water. Supposedly equivalent to "triple distilled water" or so the guy who sold me the purifier said. It uses a resin technology typically only used in commercial applications. TDS meter shows 0 on the water. Ohmeter barely moves when tested for conductivity, as opposed to tap water which conducts very well.

So, I'll be installing Duralene tubing with some pure water in it. Does anyone have any requests on what I can do to help this testing effort?

When I was researching the water purifier I have, this pure water is supposedly very corrosive. I'm nervous about putting it in my WC loop: will it eat at the metal in the loop?


----------



## nawon72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taotree*
> When I was researching the water purifier I have, this pure water is supposedly very corrosive. I'm nervous about putting it in my WC loop: will it eat at the metal in the loop?


Yes, but someone with experience using it will be able to tell you whether or not it's significant enough to worry about it.

This is for Deionized water, but in WC it's essentially the same thing as distilled.

Quote:


> Care must be exercised when using DI water. The very lack of ions also makes this coolant unusually corrosive.


Source (read the bottom half)


----------



## taotree

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> Source (read the bottom half)


Right, which then says "Copper and many other common materials are not compatible with DI water and will contaminate it.".

Looking at the xspc kit: rad is "Copper and Brass Core", block is "Copper Base", res is acrylic, pump is steel? So... I need something to make it so my water isn't going to corrode copper, brass, acrylic, duralene, steel(?)...







hmm...

More stuff:

http://www.finishing.com/147/97.shtml
"Potassium permanganate stabilizes pH in Deionized water"
"adding a bit of sodium carbonate or another non-halogen soluble salt to the water should abate any corrosion in this situation"

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=146011
"DI water will dissolve roughly 30 ppm Cu at ambient T and typical pH of 5, and more at higher T. Enough to visibly contaminate the water."
I think I saw someone with blue(?) water that they thought was from corroding copper. That would make sense given this.
"If the DI water is in contact with a source of oxygen, copper will fail rapidly."
It says deoxygenated neurtral water will not be a problem but since most WC's is open to air (right?), that's not an option.
" Corrosion inhibition comes from azoles [a few ppm of mercaptobenzothiazole (MBT), benzotriazole or tolytriazole; more if chlorine is present]* or sodium silicate."


----------



## nawon72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taotree*
> 
> Right, which then says "Copper and many other common materials are not compatible with DI water and will contaminate it.".
> 
> Looking at the xspc kit: rad is "Copper and Brass Core", block is "Copper Base", res is acrylic, pump is steel? So... I need something to make it so my water isn't going to corrode copper, brass, acrylic, duralene, steel(?)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmm...


I remember Martin tested the conductivity of distilled after being in rad, copper T, and CPU loop. Too bad he didn't test a nickel or stainless steel T.

If the pump is stainless steel, it should be fine. *Edit:* "The DI water will corrode the Copper and lower grades of Stainless and can even leach the Chlorides from PVC Plastics." From your finishing.com link, second from the bottom.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taotree*
> 
> http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=146011
> "DI water will dissolve roughly 30 ppm Cu at ambient T and typical pH of 5, and more at higher T. Enough to visibly contaminate the water."
> I think I saw someone with blue(?) water that they thought was from corroding copper. That would make sense given this.
> "If the DI water is in contact with a source of oxygen, copper will fail rapidly."
> It says deoxygenated neurtral water will not be a problem but since most WC's is open to air (right?), that's not an option.
> " Corrosion inhibition comes from azoles [a few ppm of mercaptobenzothiazole (MBT), benzotriazole or tolytriazole; more if chlorine is present]* or sodium silicate."


DI and Distilled water don't have a pH of 5. More like 7 +/- 0.5.

Most WC systems are a closed loop, so no air will get in.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Call me crazy, and it's possible that this monitor at work is horribly calibrated, but to me it looks BETTER than it does new as it no longer has the strange greenish tint that the virgin tubing has. If so, holy crap because that would mean tubing that looks better the longer you use it, which is unheard of.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pvt.joker*
> 
> Glad i wasn't the only one that saw that.. the text was easier for me to read through the used tubing than the new..


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NASzi*
> 
> same thing here haha


I was going to write this in my review test and decide not.I left it off to see if anyone would catch my message and no one here is crazy LOL the tubing does look very promise the more you use it does looks better and you guys saw it.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taotree*
> 
> My XSPC Raystorm kit is arriving on Thursday with 1/2" ID, 3/4" OD Duralene tubing from Sidewinder Computers. It comes with both a killcoil and Petra's Tech PT Nuke Biocide.
> I have a somewhat unique situation in that I'll be using very pure water. Supposedly equivalent to "triple distilled water" or so the guy who sold me the purifier said. It uses a resin technology typically only used in commercial applications. TDS meter shows 0 on the water. Ohmeter barely moves when tested for conductivity, as opposed to tap water which conducts very well.
> So, I'll be installing Duralene tubing with some pure water in it. Does anyone have any requests on what I can do to help this testing effort?
> When I was researching the water purifier I have, this pure water is supposedly very corrosive. I'm nervous about putting it in my WC loop: will it eat at the metal in the loop?


My advice for you : I know we all want to find some better solution for us in term of Fluid for Water Cooling. But keep in mind,If this stuff were good in the past a lot of us will been using it I may be wrong but if were you i would stick with Distilled Water ( easy to deal with ) not special maintenance need. and one think I'm not here to try to sell Mayhems products but they are the bet in the market. My review above proved the Mayhems Red Dye had no stained the Tubing and clouded the tubing. and it has been running for 35 days 24/7 ( one more thing i did upgrade the CPU on my PTB I got a SB 25k 4.8MHz 24/7 and this mini board can OC this CPU so stable and 4.8MHz add more heat to the system them the SB 3.3MHz 2125 duo core.I hope my little advice can help you in some point. when you have a free time read my review below my avatar it may help too.
PS: i already read all your post and reply on page 116.









BH Now running Pastel Ice White


----------



## taotree

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> Most WC systems are a closed loop, so no air will get in.


Air is in there to begin with. You don't remove every drop of air from the entire system do you? Isn't there some air in the reservoir?


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taotree*
> 
> Air is in there to begin with. You don't remove every drop of air from the entire system do you? Isn't there some air in the reservoir?


yes air is going to always there. when you have a large water loop it is good to have this kind off pressure valve release koolance Pressure Valve Fitting | Phobya Pressure Valve Fitting G1/4" - Black Nickel .If air is a issue for the liquid don't use you may end up with bad result in the end. I do have a Fill Port on top of my case and I use it to release some air constantly and you can see the water in the reservoir lowering about about 1/8" when air is released @ least my setup. my setup
pump/res>>360>>cpu>>240>>vga>>vga>>pump/res and loop again.


----------



## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> yes air is going to always there. when you have a large water loop it is good to have this kind off pressure valve release koolance Pressure Valve Fitting | Phobya Pressure Valve Fitting G1/4" - Black Nickel .If air is a issue for the liquid don't use you may end up with bad result in the end. I do have a Fill Port on top of my case and I use it to release some air constantly and you can see the water in the reservoir lowering about about 1/8" when air is released @ least my setup. my setup
> pump/res>>360>>cpu>>240>>vga>>vga>>pump/res and loop again.


i have a a bay res in my haf 932 and a tube leadign up to the hafs fillport witha danger den fillport in it and i also release air now and then and i only have a phobia 260 pump!
(phobia 260,xspc tripple 120,xspc 140,xspc block xspc bay res) even my meager loop builds up air


----------



## Warrior1986

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> i have a a bay res in my haf 932 and a tube leadign up to the hafs fillport witha danger den fillport in it and i also release air now and then and i only have a phobia 260 pump!
> (phobia 260,xspc tripple 120,xspc 140,xspc block xspc bay res) even my meager loop builds up air


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> yes air is going to always there. when you have a large water loop it is good to have this kind off pressure valve release koolance Pressure Valve Fitting | Phobya Pressure Valve Fitting G1/4" - Black Nickel .If air is a issue for the liquid don't use you may end up with bad result in the end. I do have a Fill Port on top of my case and I use it to release some air constantly and you can see the water in the reservoir lowering about about 1/8" when air is released @ least my setup. my setup
> pump/res>>360>>cpu>>240>>vga>>vga>>pump/res and loop again.


Thanks for the heads up on this guys. I just ordered the Koolance pressure valve, as I also have a fill port setup on my radiator but I'm going to install it on my reservoir. This way I'll have two points of pressure relief.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> i have a a bay res in my haf 932 and a tube leadign up to the hafs fillport witha danger den fillport in it and i also release air now and then and i only have a phobia 260 pump!
> (phobia 260,xspc tripple 120,xspc 140,xspc block xspc bay res) even my meager loop builds up air


Like I mentioned above.If air is the issue for the coolant fluid don't use , Distilled and X1 water is my advice.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Thanks for the heads up on this guys. I just ordered the Koolance pressure valve, as I also have a fill port setup on my radiator but I'm going to install it on my reservoir. This way I'll have two points of pressure relief.










bud try to keep the pressure out you give more life for the pump and water flow a bit more. keep your eye in the res while you turn on the computer after while, You will see the water lowering and if you have to release the air some how it will lower more.


----------



## jinsoup

Thanks Sky for the great pics, you seem to have far more resources ($) available to make a more legitimate review than I ever could =P

I guess our Duralene _is_ clearer than the day we bought it, who would have guessed.

ew, primochill dye.... Distilled + Biocide = no staining! Anything + Dye = nightmare!

I got a tube of Primochill Purple (UV Blue) if anyone wants to buy it... only tested, turns dark blue when diluted.
The syringe was a little "stuck" on its way from Germany and the resulting burst splashed out from the cup to my eye/ big lolz.

Stained my contact lens purple, so if anyone is interested in having UV glowing/purple contacts,
- I think I've finally found better use for Primochill dyes.


----------



## duhjuh

<--- face ill make when tearign open my waterblock


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jinsoup*
> 
> *Thanks Sky for the great pics, you seem to have far more resources ($) available to make a more legitimate review than I ever could =P
> I guess our Duralene is clearer than the day we bought it, who would have guessed.*
> ew, primochill dye.... Distilled + Biocide = no staining! Anything + Dye = nightmare!
> I got a tube of Primochill Purple (UV Blue) if anyone wants to buy it... only tested, turns dark blue when diluted.
> The syringe was a little "stuck" on its way from Germany and the resulting burst splashed out from the cup to my eye/ big lolz.
> Stained my contact lens purple, so if anyone is interested in having UV glowing/purple contacts,
> - I think I've finally found better use for Primochill dyes.


Hey jinsoup, No problemO Amigo j/k, yeah man I did what I could and now I'm running out of Durelene to continue my test. sad but its true I only have a couple feet of it. but I still have my main RiG running Ice Paste White and Plasticizer Test Bench with UV Pink + Biocide we will have some new updates soon.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <--- face ill make when tearign open my waterblock


Like this right  or this 
if you have some extra resources ($) available " like jinsoup mentioned above" can you buy some Durelenefor me


----------



## duhjuh

im want to go with a solid color tubign next time around me thinks perhaps black and orange to match my upcoming mutilation build where im smashing two haf 932 advances together(pending funding)


----------



## n3farious

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Call me crazy, and it's possible that this monitor at work is horribly calibrated, but to me it looks BETTER than it does new as it no longer has the strange greenish tint that the virgin tubing has. If so, holy crap because that would mean tubing that looks better the longer you use it, which is unheard of.


+1 for me too.


----------



## n3farious

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> My advice for you : I know we all want to find some better solution for us in term of Fluid for Water Cooling. But keep in mind,If this stuff were good in the past a lot of us will been using it I may be wrong but if were you i would stick with Distilled Water ( easy to deal with ) not special maintenance need. and one think I'm not here to try to sell Mayhems products but they are the bet in the market. My review above proved the Mayhems Red Dye had no stained the Tubing and clouded the tubing.


Thanks skyn3t for all of your work and updates. I think that you saved me a LOT of heartache in building my first custom loop. I have 25' of Durelene and Mayhems X1 UV Red that will be going inside.









I had to give you some rep for your awesomeness.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *n3farious*
> 
> Thanks skyn3t for all of your work and updates. I think that you saved me a LOT of heartache in building my first custom loop. I have 25' of Durelene and Mayhems X1 UV Red that will be going inside.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had to give you some rep for your awesomeness.


No problem man







. It is always a pleasure to help our community and welcome to water world







.


----------



## bigmac11

Durelene back in stock at Sidewinders http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/dupvctu7id5o.html.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigmac11*
> 
> Durelene back in stock at Sidewinders http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/dupvctu7id5o.html.


Buy me some and send to me







I will need it so bad 7/16 ID 5/8 OD


----------



## Capt Proton

So I finally tore down my loops today. My tubing was Primochill Pro LRT UV Blue. Bought it from NCIX in January. CPU loop using distilled and Petra's PT Nuke (several years old) heavy coating and lots of stuff stuck in the block and in the reservoir and rad. GPU Loop using distilled and Zalman G100, no build up at all, nada. Now, I did put in more PT Nuke than I should have. I am combining my loop and have taken my Exos 2 out. My new loop is as follows

Thermochill PA 120.2, DDC 3.25 (Koolance PMP-400) with XSPC Reservoir top, Apogee XT Rev 1, XSPC Razor GTX 590, Coolgate 240, MCP 35X with Durelene.

I bought 30' of it, no idea why I bought so much.


----------



## AlbertMwugabi

Holy cow, seeing what happened to many peoples tubing and/or blocks is crazy!









Will have this in mind when i buy new tubing for the wc loop later on. And will cut open some of my old Masterkleer white tubing to see if there are any plasticizer going on there. Thanks for a great thread and putting some light on the subject. and a big thanks to skyn3t for doing the tests on different tubing.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlbertMwugabi*
> 
> Holy cow, seeing what happened to many peoples tubing and/or blocks is crazy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will have this in mind when i buy new tubing for the wc loop later on. And will cut open some of my old Masterkleer white tubing to see if there are any plasticizer going on there. Thanks for a great thread and putting some light on the subject. and a big thanks to skyn3t for doing the tests on different tubing.


Hey Man, thanks for your comment







it is really nice when you do something and other people recognize it ( it is for everyone. ) thanks so much and as long I can help our community count me IN. OCN for Life.









Thanks for all you guys that gave me support and thanks for Martinm210 ( for pointed me to the Durelene Tubing ) and he's experience with Durelene for long two years, Mick ( Mayhems ) for supply me with all his products for testing purpose and work closely with us in our community.


----------



## WebsterXC

I don't know if anyone has posted this yet, but FrozenCPU now ofters plasticizer FREE tubing. It's Tygon E-1000 formula. Not to shabby if I do say so myself. I don't run it in a rig, but I've played with it last time I visited the storefront. Unfortunately it's only in 1/2 x 3/4 for all you 3/8" ID people. It's also expensive as crap...

Link: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16794/ex-tub-1368/Tygon_E-1000_12_ID_34_OD_-_Plasticizer_Free_Flexible_Tubing_ADK00038.html


----------



## Warrior1986

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WebsterXC*
> 
> I don't know if anyone has posted this yet, but FrozenCPU now ofters plasticizer FREE tubing. It's Tygon E-1000 formula. Not to shabby if I do say so myself. I don't run it in a rig, but I've played with it last time I visited the storefront. Unfortunately it's only in 1/2 x 3/4 for all you 3/8" ID people. It's also expensive as crap...
> Link: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16794/ex-tub-1368/Tygon_E-1000_12_ID_34_OD_-_Plasticizer_Free_Flexible_Tubing_ADK00038.html


Yup, running this stuff in my build (see link in sig).


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WebsterXC*
> 
> I don't know if anyone has posted this yet, but FrozenCPU now ofters plasticizer FREE tubing. It's Tygon E-1000 formula. Not to shabby if I do say so myself. I don't run it in a rig, but I've played with it last time I visited the storefront. Unfortunately it's only in 1/2 x 3/4 for all you 3/8" ID people. It's also expensive as crap...
> Link: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16794/ex-tub-1368/Tygon_E-1000_12_ID_34_OD_-_Plasticizer_Free_Flexible_Tubing_ADK00038.html


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Warrior1986*
> 
> Yup, running this stuff in my build (see link in sig).


I will stick with my Durelene it is Rock Bottom cheap tubing and still shine since day one. by the way all my fittings is 7/16" x 5/8"







its nice some os the water cooler retailers now offering this tubing.


----------



## MrGrievous

Wow so glad I stumbled across this thread, I was originally going to get some primochill pro ltr but then found out that it is one of the brands incompatable with pastel coolants







but this durelene tubing is dirt cheap lol and has shown great results which = a win win in book


----------



## raw0ats

So i read through about 30 pages of this thread and decided to skip to the last but has anyone tried to set up some type of filter in their loop to see if this gunk can be collected?

EDIT: also has anyone tried the xspc tubing that frozenpc is offering as well??


----------



## duhjuh

does durllene come in solid orange?


----------



## Warrior1986

No, only clear.


----------



## duhjuh

sigh thats unfortunate considering my next build will be black and orange


----------



## Marcusk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> sigh thats unfortunate considering my next build will be black and orange


You could run Mayhems Pastel Gigabyre Orange, that would look great. There's practically no tubing that's actually orange either, most marketed as orange are often red or pink.


----------



## duhjuh

yeah i know im considering mayhems since im totally done with primochill concentrated dye bombs(actually considering not waiting to tear down my loop)
its either mayhems or sleeving my tubes


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raw0ats*
> 
> So i read through about 30 pages of this thread and decided to skip to the last but has anyone tried to set up some type of filter in their loop to see if this gunk can be collected?
> EDIT: also has anyone tried the xspc tubing that frozenpc is offering as well??


I have actually used a gas line filter in my loop (3/8" ID tubing) Worked OK, but wickedly restrictive.


----------



## duhjuh

i use a koolance mesh filter and soo far all ive caught i solitary cat hair and a tiny piece of kill coil


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WebsterXC*
> 
> I don't know if anyone has posted this yet, but FrozenCPU now ofters plasticizer FREE tubing. It's Tygon E-1000 formula. Not to shabby if I do say so myself. I don't run it in a rig, but I've played with it last time I visited the storefront. Unfortunately it's only in 1/2 x 3/4 for all you 3/8" ID people. It's also expensive as crap...
> Link: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16794/ex-tub-1368/Tygon_E-1000_12_ID_34_OD_-_Plasticizer_Free_Flexible_Tubing_ADK00038.html


Elaborate for me, I'm new to fittings. Is 3/8" ID a desired size, and why, or it an oddball size, for example, will the Tygon 1/2 x 3/4 work with normal fittings, say Swiftech? Is 1/2 x 3/4 more common?


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Elaborate for me, I'm new to fittings. Is 3/8" ID a desired size, and why, or it an oddball size, for example, will the Tygon 1/2 x 3/4 work with normal fittings, say Swiftech? Is 1/2 x 3/4 more common?


Tests by Martin and, way back when, Cathar, show that the difference in performance between 3/8 ID and 1/2 ID is minimal. Some like the 3/8 (like me) for the way it looks. I happen to think that 1/2 ID tubing looks clunky. The smaller tubing should also be cheaper. So, only one size being available reduces options, and costs more.


----------



## WebsterXC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marcusk*
> 
> You could run Mayhems Pastel Gigabyre Orange, that would look great. There's practically no tubing that's actually orange either, most marketed as orange are often red or pink.


Not true, XSPC "Red" tubing is marketed as red but is a legit orange.


----------



## WebsterXC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marcusk*
> 
> You could run Mayhems Pastel Gigabyre Orange, that would look great. There's practically no tubing that's actually orange either, most marketed as orange are often red or pink.


Not true, XSPC "Red" tubing is marketed as red but is a legit orange.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Elaborate for me, I'm new to fittings. Is 3/8" ID a desired size, and why, or it an oddball size, for example, will the Tygon 1/2 x 3/4 work with normal fittings, say Swiftech? Is 1/2 x 3/4 more common?


Apparently the current "debate" in some corners of the watercooling world is that temperatures are better with higher velocity (3/8ID). Some are firm believers that more volume is better instead (1/2ID).

Because a pump puts out the same flow rate of water (in a perfect world where there are no restrictions







), 3/8ID tubing will increase the flow rate throughout the whole system because:

*Av=Av* where V is the velocity of water and A is the cross sectional area of the tubing (derrived from Bernoulli's equation). This equation puts velocity and cross sectional area in a diverse relationship; as velocity increases, it requires the cross sectional area (inner diameter) of the tubing to get smaller to maintain the same flow rate. There is a lot of other pressure stuff I could explain, but that's just the quick synopsis for you.

Other people think that more volume of water leads to lower temperatures because more water=more available heat transfer substance (sorry, don't know the equation for this one







).

EDIT: Sorry for double post, I thought I was editing my first one. If someone would be so kind as to delete that, would be much appreciated =)


----------



## Neo Zuko

Well with my MCP35X2 I guess this tubing size thing means even less to me.


----------



## somebadlemonade

i just saw something when i was looking at the chemical compatibility chart for acrylic, http://www.tapplastics.com/uploads/pdf/acrylite_chem_resist.pdf
it show pvc with plasticizers to be incompatible, it seems like it can do more than just gunk up your block, but ruin your acrylic res as well

haha


----------



## DevilDriver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *somebadlemonade*
> 
> i just saw something when i was looking at the chemical compatibility chart for acrylic, http://www.tapplastics.com/uploads/pdf/acrylite_chem_resist.pdf
> it show pvc with plasticizers to be incompatible, it seems like it can do more than just gunk up your block, but ruin your acrylic res as well
> haha


My Swiftech micro res 2 is still crystal clear and no damage even after my Primochill pro lrt tubing clouded so bad I couldn't see through it.
I'm also happy to say that after running the sys scrubber through the system and flushing, the tubing is still clear and hasn't clouded back up.








Just wish we knew what was in the stuff.


----------



## raw0ats

Quote:


> I have actually used a gas line filter in my loop (3/8" ID tubing) Worked OK, but wickedly restrictive.


Quote:


> i use a koolance mesh filter and soo far all ive caught i solitary cat hair and a tiny piece of kill coil


I was thinking more along the lines of filter paper you would use in an organic chemistry lab, they can relatively let a good amount of water through if it is somewhat warm


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raw0ats*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> I have actually used a gas line filter in my loop (3/8" ID tubing) Worked OK, but wickedly restrictive.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> i use a koolance mesh filter and soo far all ive caught i solitary cat hair and a tiny piece of kill coil
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was thinking more along the lines of filter paper you would use in an organic chemistry lab, they can relatively let a good amount of water through if it is somewhat warm
Click to expand...

Koolance makes a filter for watercooling so if you're looking at putting a filter in the loop that's what I would suggest you get. Don't put a paper filter in the loop. It will eventually break down and could clog your pump depending on where you put the filter.



This filter comes with two screens of different sizes. If you wish to run a filter it's what I would suggest.









~Ceadder


----------



## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Koolance makes a filter for watercooling so if you're looking at putting a filter in the loop that's what I would suggest you get. Don't put a paper filter in the loop. It will eventually break down and could clog your pump depending on where you put the filter.
> 
> This filter comes with two screens of different sizes. If you wish to run a filter it's what I would suggest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


+1 i have the cheaper single option version of that


----------



## Eylev

Sorry im new to WC and i want to get the Tygon E-1000 3/8" ID (1/2" OD) "Plasticizer Free" Tubing - Clear with the Koolance Liquid , 700mL Fluorescent Red.. Can i assume that i wont face any plasticizer problem?


----------



## squick3n

No plasicizer issues, but that size of tubing is very prone to kinking. Might want to consider 3/8-5/8. As far as dyes, most people here use Mayhems. I'm not saying the Koolance dyes are bad. Just that they aren't used as much on this forum.


----------



## Eylev

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squick3n*
> 
> No plasicizer issues, but that size of tubing is very prone to kinking. Might want to consider 3/8-5/8. As far as dyes, most people here use Mayhems. I'm not saying the Koolance dyes are bad. Just that they aren't used as much on this forum.


Sorry i dont quite understand the kink meaning... Too bad is all my compression fitting is BP Premium G1/4" Matte Black High Flow 3/8" (1/2" OD)..


----------



## squick3n

That sized tubing has a very thin wall. If you try and make any tight bends with it it will kink and water won't flow through it










It's perfectly fine. Lots of people use it. You'll just have to be careful with it


----------



## Eylev

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squick3n*
> 
> That sized tubing has a very thin wall. If you try and make any tight bends with it it will kink and water won't flow through it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's perfectly fine. Lots of people use it. You'll just have to be careful with it


Ah i see...! Thanks!


----------



## EAnushan

Anyone in Canada picked up some Duralene? Sidewinder Computers won't accept USPS as a shipping method to Canada for some reason. UPS is usable, but I'd be slapped with some huge brokerage fees.


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EAnushan*
> 
> Anyone in Canada picked up some Duralene? Sidewinder Computers won't accept USPS as a shipping method to Canada for some reason. UPS is usable, but I'd be slapped with some huge brokerage fees.


From Sidewinder's Customer support.

"All orders are shipped via the United States Postal Service (USPS) or United Parcel Service (UPS). For domestic U.S. and Canada customers, there is no handling fee, packaging fee, or any hidden fees."

I just got my tubing from them and I can vouch for their statement.


----------



## g00f

What method did you use to ship???

Priority Mail ( Costs $25US to ship to Toronto for 10 feet)
Express Mail (Costs $37US to ship to Toronto for 10 feet)

The above 2 shipping costs are approx double and triple the costs of the product, so did you accept the shipping costs and use one of the above to ship into Canada?

Looks like we need some groups set up to SHARE the high shipping costs.

g00f


----------



## EAnushan

I'm having he same issue, so I emailed Sidewinders to ask if they can setup USPS for Canadian buyers.


----------



## Capt Proton

For your information. I just did a fake order with Performance PCs for 20' of tubing. USPS with them is $32.90 vice $33.83 for UPS, so, no use getting excited. Performance PCs used to have a much cheaper option with USPS that had no insurance. They have stopped offering this, probably because of some low life telling them they never got the package, even though, I am betting, they did.


----------



## dabster

You can still get USPS First Class shipping(no tracking) with performance pcs on really small items, about 5-6 dollars to Toronto. I just ordered some Prolimatech PK-3 it was about 6 dollars shipping. If you add 2 it goes too $25 dollars using USPS priority mail, so I guess it has something to do with weight/size. I have ordered lots of things from the states over the years using USPS, lately it always seems to be about 30 dollars for anything substantial. Kinda sucks. I was also looking at ordering some tubing from sidewinder, kinda sucks when its 30 dollars for shipping. Frozen cpu and performance pcs is about the same.


----------



## BMCG

Just swapped out 2 month old Primo*cloud*....for Duralene

I had been running only distilled with a kill coil...yet this "cocktail" was more than enough to coat the clear primo to the point of opacity...a most unattractive yellow green.....

Reservoir water was transparent....throughout the 2 months.

Many thanks to the esteemed pathfinders on this forum who chased down this alternate..much props.

Am hoping that others success with the Dura replays for me.

FYI - Loop includes a Koolance filter....equipped with the finer mesh....no discernible plasticizer build up observed on it.


----------



## WebsterXC

So I tore apart my loop the other day because I'm re-doing my rig, and lone behold look what I found!



MMMMM! Yummy!







This was supposed to be Primochill black. Ran for about 3-ish months on Distilled Water and 1 drop of I&H Biocide.

Needless to say I've switch to Tygon tubing. I didn't opt for Duralene because FrozenCPU doesn't carry it, and since I live down the street from their storefront, I'm too cheap to pay for shipping costs elsewhere. However I didn't get the E-1000, due to the way my build looks, I'm trying out their B-44-4X IB (Inner Braid) with Swiftech HydrX concentrate. I'll let you guys know the results when I get to running the loop thoroughly.

My waterblock didn't look so happy either. It went from bright orangy copper to some dull brown, half shiny thing. Washing with vinegar helped a lot, suprisingly.


----------



## g00f

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *g00f*
> 
> What method did you use to ship???
> Priority Mail ( Costs $25US to ship to Toronto for 10 feet)
> Express Mail (Costs $37US to ship to Toronto for 10 feet)
> The above 2 shipping costs are approx double and triple the costs of the product, so did you accept the shipping costs and use one of the above to ship into Canada?
> Looks like we need some groups set up to SHARE the high shipping costs.
> g00f


I ended up comparing the cost of shipping to my US based location in Niagara falls versus shipping to Toronto, difference was around $16 dollars, and seeing I would have to pay $5US for the storage pickup, I opted to ship 14ft plus a killcoil and PT Nuke to my home directly. Shipping cost for 14 feet seemed to be best for this length...I tried various lengths for shipping calculations, and this seemed best.

Im a n00b to WC but have tried my best with many fan/fin vendors, and of course building my own PC since the middle 80's....









I think I have collected a great setup for my crossfire and CPU cooled setup and was NOT gonna gunk it up, so many MANY thanks to all in this great read and thread.

g


----------



## ionstorm66

I have had XS-PC clear tubing from my 420 Kit for about 2 weeks, and it is so cloudy I can't even see if the water is moving. I used distilled water, and the free kill coil I got from Frozen CPU.


----------



## duhjuh

i will be tearing down my loop soon enough(within a month) i was running primochill 3/8x5/8 clear with almost an entire bottle of concentrated blood red primochill dyebomb and a koolance filter.. this should be ..erm ..revealing?


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> i will be tearing down my loop soon enough(within a month) i was running primochill 3/8x5/8 clear with almost an entire bottle of concentrated blood red primochill dyebomb and a koolance filter.. this should be ..erm ..revealing?


I don't want to  it


----------



## kkorky

Here is my contribution to the Primochill farce,

I used:

PrimoChill PrimoFlex PRO LRT Tubing UV Blue 13/10mm
Distilled Water
Kill coil

I run my rig 24/7, and the tubing was purchased at the end of April.
I stripped my rig 2 days ago and the photos below clearly show the severe plasticizer problem that i had by using Primochill,the reservoir and fittings also had some plasticizer deposits, but very mild compared to my blocks and tubing- It must be noted that from May up until now i had changed the water and flushed the system 3 times (i like to change my water every 2 months or so).

I have ordered Duralene from the Sidewinder guys, but in the meanwhile, until it arrives, i am using some old Feser TFC UV clear i had ordered about a year ago but never used-cause i use my pc for work amongst other things.

I would post some pics of the TFC tubing when i get the Duralene installed, but it may not be long enough to have any severe problems as did the Primochill 'Tubing"-we'll see when the time comes.

Enjoy the Horror Show









Plasticizer with a blue tinge in my Vid Card block



Another shot of the block with plasticizer deposits



Tubing cut open to reveal severe plasticizer deposits (note at the top unused Blue UV Primochill-what a difference!!)



Feser TFC UV Clear that im using until the Duralene arrives


----------



## Falknir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> i will be tearing down my loop soon enough(within a month) i was running primochill 3/8x5/8 clear with almost an entire bottle of concentrated blood red primochill dyebomb and a koolance filter.. this should be ..erm ..revealing?


Enough dye in that loop?


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Here is my contribution to the Primochill farce,
> I used:
> PrimoChill PrimoFlex PRO LRT Tubing UV Blue 13/10mm
> Distilled Water
> Kill coil
> I run my rig 24/7, and the tubing was purchased at the end of April.
> I stripped my rig 2 days ago and the photos below clearly show the severe plasticizer problem that i had by using Primochill,the reservoir and fittings also had some plasticizer deposits, but very mild compared to my blocks and tubing- It must be noted that from May up until now i had changed the water and flushed the system 3 times (i like to change my water every 2 months or so).
> I have ordered Duralene from the Sidewinder guys, but in the meanwhile, until it arrives, i am using some old Feser TFC UV clear i had ordered about a year ago but never used-cause i use my pc for work amongst other things.
> I would post some pics of the TFC tubing when i get the Duralene installed, but it may not be long enough to have any severe problems as did the Primochill 'Tubing"-we'll see when the time comes.
> Enjoy the Horror Show
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plasticizer with a blue tinge in my Vid Card block
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another shot of the block with plasticizer deposits
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tubing cut open to reveal severe plasticizer deposits (note at the top unused Blue UV Primochill-what a difference!!)
> 
> Feser TFC UV Clear that im using until the Duralene arrives
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So my fellow water coolers, at the risk of flogging a dead horse once again- *DON'T USE THAT PRIMOCHILL CR*P!!*


I don't know what should a do first if I







or







. that's terrible. e for your contribution and







for this worse thing I'm looking at. This is of of my big jump into this THREAD to help our community to find a solution for NEW TUBING. I'm kinda happy and sad at the same time in certain point because I have been monitoring this Thread everyday since I put all my time and effort to help. See many people with this horrendous result with Primochill. Nicely and done *kkorky* for you time to show off this bad experience letting people know how bad Pimochill is and they never stated any solution for this kinda crap problem. *Primochill SCRUB SOLUTION is not what we looking for*. What we looking for is the Colored Tubing like it used to be in the past without this Plasticizer Problem. +rep for you time.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falknir*
> 
> Enough dye in that loop?


*OMG* I wish he can record everything when he start taking apart the loop.

Today i will have some more update of Durelene Guys I have been busy with my LIFE but I have not forget about you Brothers.


----------



## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I don't know what should a do first if I
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . that's terrible. e for your contribution and
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for this worse thing I'm looking at. This is of of my big jump into this THREAD to help our community to find a solution for NEW TUBING. I'm kinda happy and sad at the same time in certain point because I have been monitoring this Thread everyday since I put all my time and effort to help. See many people with this horrendous result with Primochill. Nicely and done *kkorky* for you time to show off this bad experience letting people know how bad Pimochill is and they never stated any solution for this kinda crap problem. *Primochill SCRUB SOLUTION is not what we looking for*. What we looking for is the Colored Tubing like it used to be in the past without this Plasticizer Problem. +rep for you time.
> 
> *OMG* I wish he can record everything when he start taking apart the loop.
> Today i will have some more update of Durelene Guys I have been busy with my LIFE but I have not forget about you Brothers.


yes there is plenty of dye in that loop lol
and i will be taking many many pictures
and until i can get some more moneyz i will be using xspc red/uv orange(it just looks orange that why i bought it before) and no freaking dye ,pulled apart my buddies loop where we used steel blue dye bombs and i had scrub his block with a tooth brush and di water and tear apart his chiller and block..it was a mess lol
luck my im only running a few rads a single block and a res (the will need to be given the viniger treatment because im sure it will be pink after i drain everything
i got a feeling imma need to buy several gallons of distilled to clean out my 360rad
this has all gotta wait a few paychecks though
i will be documenting it for the sake of not many guys run enough primochill blood red dye to turn the water color almost black but not quite (i was going for a monster blood look and achieved that) now its going to be a monster to clean im sure..cant wait for all the dye sediment in my cpu block and rads lol and i can see how pink the filter is already just looking at it
btw my temps are fine i still idle between 24-30 depending on room temp and never go above 40 under max load(intel extreme burn in ) (unlapped phenom II x6 1090t @ 3.8)
should be fun right guys?


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> yes there is plenty of dye in that loop lol
> and i will be taking many many pictures
> and until i can get some more moneyz i will be using xspc red/uv orange(it just looks orange that why i bought it before) and no freaking dye ,pulled apart my buddies loop where we used steel blue dye bombs and i had scrub his block with a tooth brush and di water and tear apart his chiller and block..it was a mess lol
> luck my im only running a few rads a single block and a res (the will need to be given the viniger treatment because im sure it will be pink after i drain everything
> *i got a feeling imma need to buy several gallons of distilled to clean out my 360rad*
> this has all gotta wait a few paychecks though
> i will be documenting it for the sake of not many guys run enough primochill blood red dye to turn the water color almost black but not quite (i was going for a monster blood look and achieved that) now its going to be a monster to clean im sure..cant wait for all the dye sediment in my cpu block and rads lol and i can see how pink the filter is already just looking at it
> btw my temps are fine i still idle between 24-30 depending on room temp and never go above 40 under max load(intel extreme burn in ) (unlapped phenom II x6 1090t @ 3.8)
> should be fun right guys?


you can save your money. just used warm tap water with vinegar and flush it good till you feel comfortable and use one gallon Distilled to clear the tap water and vinegar out of your loop.
take a look here post #1128 of 1214 you may find this helpfull.


----------



## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> you can save your money. just used warm tap water with vinegar and flush it good till you feel comfortable and use one gallon Distilled to clear the tap water and vinegar out of your loop.
> take a look here post #1128 of 1214 you may find this helpfull.


i get it for 80cents a gallon at giant eagle where my brother works so i get an employees discount off of that as well so like ..a fiver will get me plenty...
edit: and i know lol but if you can just used distilled the whole way why wouldn't you?
also: this isnt my first rodeo there cowboy i e been water cooling for about 5 years now


----------



## nleksan

Well I just ordered some apparently fresh-batch Primochill Primoflex Pro LRT White 1/2x3/4 Tubing, hopefully it will be okay :S

Is there any other tubing available in Solid White that doesn't have this issue? I would really prefer to use white Tubing rather than any dyes...


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> Well I just ordered some apparently fresh-batch Primochill Primoflex Pro LRT White 1/2x3/4 Tubing, hopefully it will be okay :S
> Is there any other tubing available in Solid White that doesn't have this issue? I would really prefer to use white Tubing rather than any dyes...


you can use Durelene with Mayhems Pastel ice White . and you be safe for good. Pastel ice white concentrate has Biocide in it so you don't need to mix any kill coil or other algae solution on it. trust me i know how it works and i have been testing it for some time and i do have a good results with it and by the way Mayhems Products are the best out there and he personally give us support directly here at OCN check his Thread and you going to find a lot help there and good review. *Here is my Black Haw with Pastel Ice White* post #43 of 142 this is the best bet in the market.


----------



## Roman736

So without going through all these pages, could someone explain to me WHY plasticizer migration occurs? I wanna know the science behind it so I can find a better answer to the problem without buying all new tubing.


----------



## TPE-331

I had experimented with a few pieces of my new Durelene tubing making very short and funky bends and curves, holy crap! This stuff absolutely refuses to kink! Love it!


----------



## Roman736

So I looked into why plasticizer migration occurs and I don't think there's anything that can be done about it.

One thing I might try is to actually boil some tubing for a couple hours. That would accelerate the rate of diffusion out of the plastic and it would be a preemptive way to lower the amounts of plasticizer in the tubing before I install it into my computer. This would harden the tubing but that could be a good thing considering I'm using some 3/8-1/2 sections in my loop.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roman736*
> 
> So without going through all these pages, could someone explain to me WHY plasticizer migration occurs? I wanna know the science behind it so I can find a better answer to the problem without buying all new tubing.


you will need to read alot. google is your friend








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TPE-331*
> 
> I had experimented with a few pieces of my new Durelene tubing making very short and funky bends and curves, holy crap! This stuff absolutely refuses to kink! Love it!


Nice







told ya guys Durelene is the tubing in the market now








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roman736*
> 
> So I looked into why plasticizer migration occurs and I don't think there's anything that can be done about it.
> One thing I might try is to actually boil some tubing for a couple hours. That would accelerate the rate of diffusion out of the plastic and it would be a preemptive way to lower the amounts of plasticizer in the tubing before I install it into my computer. This would harden the tubing but that could be a good thing considering I'm using some 3/8-1/2 sections in my loop.


if you going to insist on Primochill i would say good lucky because you will need. but if you going into Durele you be all good just flush the system before the final and that all you need.


----------



## Simplynicko

hey bros.

i dont have the time to read through the immense amount of pages. can someone summarize what we ended up concluding?

btw, i'll be using full copper parts and kill coil with distilled water.


----------



## EAnushan

Primochill's recent batches of tubing have severe plasticizer problems.
We've concluding on a few viable tubing alternatives. Mainly Saint Gobain - Duralene (Same company that makes tygon). There are a few other viable alternatives out there, but this one is most accepted. You can take a look at Clearflex and Tygon Plasticizer free or E-1000.


----------



## Simplynicko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EAnushan*
> 
> 
> Primochill's recent batches of tubing have sever plasticizer problems.
> We've concluding on a few viable tubing alternatives. Mainly Saint Gobain - Duralene (Same company that makes tygon). There are a few other viable alternatives out there, but this one is most accepted. You can take a look at Clearflex and Tygon Plasticizer free or E-1000.


do any of those offer black or white tubing?
does the leeching affect blocks? if the tube is all black i dont particularly care what the inside looks like unless its damaging equipment.


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simplynicko*
> 
> do any of those offer black or white tubing?
> does the leeching affect blocks? if the tube is all black i dont particularly care what the inside looks like unless its damaging equipment.


Time to start reading. Try the search function.


----------



## Simplynicko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> Time to start reading. Try the search function.


oh jesus!


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simplynicko*
> 
> oh jesus!


I don't think he is following this thread.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dabster*
> 
> You can still get USPS First Class shipping(no tracking) with performance pcs on really small items, about 5-6 dollars to Toronto. I just ordered some Prolimatech PK-3 it was about 6 dollars shipping. If you add 2 it goes too $25 dollars using USPS priority mail, so I guess it has something to do with weight/size. I have ordered lots of things from the states over the years using USPS, lately it always seems to be about 30 dollars for anything substantial. Kinda sucks. I was also looking at ordering some tubing from sidewinder, kinda sucks when its 30 dollars for shipping. Frozen cpu and performance pcs is about the same.


NEVER Ship First Class from anyone. It costs a little more for the next option but it's worth it to ensure you're going to receive your package. I even pay the insurance(PPCs') now cause USPS lost a package and me an PPCs' went at it. To their credit they eventually sent a replacement package with the upgraded shipping. But it only took one issue to corrupt an otherwise seamless process.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simplynicko*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *EAnushan*
> 
> 
> Primochill's recent batches of tubing have sever plasticizer problems.
> We've concluding on a few viable tubing alternatives. Mainly Saint Gobain - Duralene (Same company that makes tygon). There are a few other viable alternatives out there, but this one is most accepted. You can take a look at Clearflex and Tygon Plasticizer free or E-1000.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> do any of those offer black or white tubing?
> does the leeching affect blocks? if the tube is all black i dont particularly care what the inside looks like unless its damaging equipment.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if any of those manufacturers offer Black or White Tubing. There are very few that do however. Feser, PrimoChill... after that I don't know. Plasticizing can occur in any tubing where plasticizer is used. As far as I know it doesn't affect the blocks much if at all. Although I have read through here a couple people have had issues.

I have the White PC tubing and haven't had an issue with Plasticizer. Although the interior of my tubing is greenish in flavor but that's due to the untreated Copper Block I'm running on my CPU. I'm glad I have solid tubing for that reason.









~Ceadder


----------



## g00f

I saw a Tygon tube that was opaque black, but of course around $4/ft....was used for medical purposes, and that supposedly was "almost" plastercizer free... and I seem to recall it was equal or more then the 1 type of plastercizer free tubing that Saint-Gobain manufactured. I was actually thinking of buying the 100ft and selling, and then better judgement bit me and i bought the Durelene instead.

Heres the link to the site i reviewed, but i forget which one was pure black.

http://www.processsystems.saint-gobain.com/flex-tubing-tygon.aspx

g


----------



## Simplynicko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *g00f*
> 
> I saw a Tygon tube that was opaque black, but of course around $4/ft....was used for medical purposes, and that supposedly was "almost" plastercizer free... and I seem to recall it was equal or more then the 1 type of plastercizer free tubing that Saint-Gobain manufactured. I was actually thinking of buying the 100ft and selling, and then better judgement bit me and i bought the Durelene instead.
> Heres the link to the site i reviewed, but i forget which one was pure black.
> http://www.processsystems.saint-gobain.com/flex-tubing-tygon.aspx
> g


bro try and find it!!!


----------



## WebsterXC

What are the chances of getting a link to Duralene in the OP? Kind of interested...


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WebsterXC*
> 
> What are the chances of getting a link to Duralene in the OP? Kind of interested...


SideWinderComputers.com Durelene Tubing


----------



## douglatins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> SideWinderComputers.com Durelene Tubing


Are those any good, with those prices, i might buy 100f and never worry again


----------



## Roman736

I want red tubing more than low-plasticizer tubing. Don't care if i have to clean it out every few months and it should stop accumulating after a while.


----------



## theseekeroffun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roman736*
> 
> I want red tubing more than low-plasticizer tubing. Don't care if i have to clean it out every few months and it should stop accumulating after a while.


Most red tubing is not a true red. You should consider clear tubing and Mayhem's blood red dye.



Just keeping a couple of drops until you get the color you want.....


----------



## g00f

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simplynicko*
> 
> bro try and find it!!!


K, looked some more today, but cannot find my initial site that allowed me to select various tubing models, and Plastercizer was one of the menu selections.

But the below one could be the one were I thought it was almost plastercizer free; R-3400 which is totally opaque.

http://www.processsystems.saint-gobain.com/product_detail.aspx?id=250468

G


----------



## WebsterXC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roman736*
> 
> I want red tubing more than low-plasticizer tubing. Don't care if i have to clean it out every few months and it should stop accumulating after a while.


Go with Primochill then, that's actually a pretty deep red. Or like theseeker said, clear with red fluid or dye. The XSPC is orange, marketed as red for some reason. The positive with the dye is you can control HOW red you want things to be.


----------



## Simplynicko

can you let the plasticizer accumulate on the tube, then empty out the water and use the same tube with no further leeching?


----------



## WebsterXC

I suppose you could, but you can't be sure that there isn't a constant stream of plasticizes in the tube. The coating on the inside of my Primochill was soft, comparable to chalk. So it's possible that the deposits are always coming off and re-depositing somewhere else in equilibrium. That translates to more gunk in your stuff.


----------



## Simplynicko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WebsterXC*
> 
> I suppose you could, but you can't be sure that there isn't a constant stream of plasticizes in the tube. The coating on the inside of my Primochill was soft, comparable to chalk. So it's possible that the deposits are always coming off and re-depositing somewhere else in equilibrium. That translates to more gunk in your stuff.


damn. i guess i could get a scraper and stick it in there, but it would be more of a challenge for the longer pieces.


----------



## g00f

You can always paint the outside of the tubing







....meaning get the Clear Durelene and paint the outside to you colour prefence....but i guess it could scrap off....nm


----------



## pvt.joker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *g00f*
> 
> You can always paint the outside of the tubing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....meaning get the Clear Durelene and paint the outside to you colour prefence....but i guess it could scrap off....nm


you can sleeve your tubing.. slightly more expensive, but looks awesome..


----------



## NASzi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simplynicko*
> 
> damn. i guess i could get a scraper and stick it in there, but it would be more of a challenge for the longer pieces.


You guys are over thinking this, it's simple as taking a paper towel or piece of cloth and a coat hanger and shoving it right through the tubing, it'l take the white residue right off. If you're a gun freak like me you could even take a brand new gun bore cleaner for a .45 cal and run it though the tubing with the included brass extensions.


----------



## NASzi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roman736*
> 
> I want red tubing more than low-plasticizer tubing. Don't care if i have to clean it out every few months and it should stop accumulating after a while.


This is red primo-chill tubing, about to swap over to durelene though, just waiting on my new pump so I can make all of my changes at one time.


----------



## Simplynicko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NASzi*
> 
> You guys are over thinking this, it's simple as taking a paper towel or piece of cloth and a coat hanger and shoving it right through the tubing, it'l take the white residue right off. If you're a gun freak like me you could even take a brand new gun bore cleaner for a .45 cal and run it though the tubing with the included brass extensions.


amen. that makes the most sense.

after a couple cleanings it should no longer leech, correct?


----------



## Ceadderman

Anyone know how MasterKleer fares?

I'm going to need new tubing soon so I can add GPU blocks to the loop and was thinking of going with MasterKleer as I can get it for $17 for 10' from PPCs' which is .80cents cheaper per foot than PrimoChill. I like PrimoChill but can't beat the price for the MK stuff.

Anyone have any experience good or bad with MK's tubing?









Don't suggest Duralene please they don't have it in colors.









~Ceadder


----------



## taotree

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *douglatins*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> SideWinderComputers.com Durelene Tubing
> 
> 
> 
> Are those any good, with those prices, i might buy 100f and never worry again
Click to expand...

It's only been 20 days for me so far, but it still looks the same as when I installed it:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1218288/please-contribute-ocn-wc-tubing-database/110#post_17997313

No problems with this tubing during installation. I have no experience with other tubing, but this was easy to bend as much as I needed.

I just noticed that that link was for smaller sizes than I got. This would be the size I installed:
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/dupvctu1idx3.html


----------



## NASzi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simplynicko*
> 
> amen. that makes the most sense.
> after a couple cleanings it should no longer leech, correct?


I have no idea about this, however i'm pretty anxious to cut open some of this primo chill when I take it out of my system to see what it looks like inside. I'm pretty sure it's clouded up pretty bad in there, a couple of weeks ago I squeezed a piece of the tube together and a spot stayed on the tube for a while before it disappeared, probably got covered over with plasticizer. I'll let you guys know what I find when I get to that point. Just need my damn Swiftech 655 to get here from canada that I ordered over a week ago. I have all of my other pieces to upgrade my loop. BTW i'm running distilled water with a kill coil and red mayhems dye. The point of upgrading to durelene is so I can actually see the red water in the tubes haha


----------



## ElGreco

After 7 months of usage i opened my loop to check my 3.5meters of Primochill tubing. Just a light powder coat was what i found regarding the tubes... Unfortunately the rest of my components were a mess of galvanic corrosion and oxidation (koolance cpu block and bitspower fittings)









Pictures of the tubes and not only here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1297422/koolance-cpu-370-and-bitspower-corrosion-solution#post_17995944

Edit:
If you check the pictures in my thread, you will notice that the powder leftovers on the q-tip is in both cases of black tubes and uv blue tubes the same.... a bluish green... Is that the case with you guys as well?


----------



## WebsterXC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Anyone know how MasterKleer fares?
> I'm going to need new tubing soon so I can add GPU blocks to the loop and was thinking of going with MasterKleer as I can get it for $17 for 10' from PPCs' which is .80cents cheaper per foot than PrimoChill. I like PrimoChill but can't beat the price for the MK stuff.
> Anyone have any experience good or bad with MK's tubing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't suggest Duralene please they don't have it in colors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Asked about this once when I did one of my "weekly" visits to FrozenCPU. I've heard they don't move much of it for some reason, so be wary. I'm interested to see why though, it doesn't seem like horrible tubing. I read a review somewhere online awhile back saying it fared well against Primochill and XSPC. Let us know how it goes.


----------



## bigmac11

About 8 moths ago I used black Masterkleer and it was the worst tubing I've ever had the displeasure of using. I noticed my temps going up and upon disassembly the inside of the tubing was solid white. After seeing that I ripped apart my blocks and they were coated about an 1/8" with the same white sticky coating. If it matters I bought it from McMaster.

Then I went with blue Primo and the same thing happened only took a lot longer and nowhere near as bad. I'm now running Duralene for about a month and zero problems and hopefully stays that was


----------



## DevilDriver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roman736*
> 
> I want red tubing more than low-plasticizer tubing. Don't care if i have to clean it out every few months and it should stop accumulating after a while.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WebsterXC*
> 
> Go with Primochill then, that's actually a pretty deep red. Or like theseeker said, clear with red fluid or dye. The XSPC is orange, marketed as red for some reason. The positive with the dye is you can control HOW red you want things to be.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simplynicko*
> 
> can you let the plasticizer accumulate on the tube, then empty out the water and use the same tube with no further leeching?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WebsterXC*
> 
> I suppose you could, but you can't be sure that there isn't a constant stream of plasticizes in the tube. The coating on the inside of my Primochill was soft, comparable to chalk. So it's possible that the deposits are always coming off and re-depositing somewhere else in equilibrium. That translates to more gunk in your stuff.


My Primochill red LRT is deff red, and after using the primochill sys scrubber and flushing the loop it has not clouded back up at all.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DevilDriver*
> 
> My Primochill red LRT is deff red, and after using the primochill sys scrubber and flushing the loop it has not clouded back up at all.


I'm interested to see whether or not your system scrubber stuff affected your hardware.









If not I might give PC another shot when I get new tubing.









~Ceadder


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DevilDriver*
> 
> My Primochill red LRT is deff red, and after using the primochill sys scrubber and flushing the loop it has not clouded back up at all.


How is it that you are the only person to receive this so called sys scrubber and will/are they going to be selling it anytime soon? Also how did you contact Primochill as they NEVER return my emails?

Thanks, Systemlord.


----------



## feniks

Primoflex UV Blue after 6 weeks of use with distilled water and silver kill coil (copper/brass/nickel metals in the loop):


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I am a little pissed off with that ... can I scrub and re-use this tubing or rather replace?


----------



## Ceadderman

Yes. Read through the last 2 pages on ideas how to do it.









~Ceadder


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> Primoflex UV Blue after 6 weeks of use with distilled water and silver kill coil (copper/brass/nickel metals in the loop):
> ...[/URL]
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> I am a little pissed off with that ... can I scrub and re-use this tubing or rather replace?


What is the color of the leftovers of the powder when you scrub it?

I have the same metals in my loop as you, same liquid solution and both my Blue AND Black Primochill tubes have the same Bluish Green color of powder... I ask this because i am investigating if everybody has the same OR if the powder is actually white and the color comes out of my copper made MORA3 rad!

Guys.. I would appreciate your input on this!


----------



## xD3aDPooLx

I never ran into any problems with primochill since I started using it... thats 4 different batches and colors too.


----------



## Ceadderman

@ElGreco... If you have any new Copper blocks or Rads I suspect that it's from that bro. At least with the black. My White PC has that patina in it from my exposed Copper CPU block. I'm pretty sure if I replaced all my tubing that it would lessen over time as the internal chamber starts to turn a brownish tinge.









~Ceadder


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Yes. Read through the last 2 pages on ideas how to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Thank you, will do when I get a chance








For now I acquired a long wooden stick and will probably pair it with a piece of sponge and dish soap and try scrubbing it








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> What is the color of the leftovers of the powder when you scrub it?
> I have the same metals in my loop as you, same liquid solution and both my Blue AND Black Primochill tubes have the same Bluish Green color of powder... I ask this because i am investigating if everybody has the same OR if the powder is actually white and the color comes out of my copper made MORA3 rad!
> Guys.. I would appreciate your input on this!


I used Q-tips on it as well and I have the EXACT same color (bluish).


----------



## Systemlord

Could it be a little bit of corrosion mixed with plasticizer?


----------



## EAnushan

Or maybe even a bit of corrosion and radiator flux mixed with plasticizer?


----------



## Ceadderman

In my case? No. It's not thick and it doesn't rub out. It's just surface discoloration and I flushed my Radiator quite thoroughly so I'm reasonably sure it's not flux since I did multiple hot flushes on it.









I would not add dish soap to tubing btw. No need to. The Plasticizer is supposed to rub right off so a stick with a rag or a .12gauge bore snake should get it clean enough.









~Ceadder


----------



## pvt.joker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> a .12gauge bore snake should get it clean enough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


would imagine the wire brush part of the snake might not be the best for the tubing...


----------



## bigmac11

Is anyone using Duralene with Ice Dragon? I just redid my loop a few hours ago to add a 360 rad and decided to try the bottle of ID I had and what a bad move. My tubing is almost to the point of not being able to see thru it. I just now drained again and looks like the damage has been done







Another order of tubing in my near future.


----------



## WebsterXC

Wait, isn't Ice Dragon white? You shouldn't be able to see through milk white fluid...

Just a question to all the more frequent forum goers, is there some massive tubing review somewhere on the forums? I was thinking about getting a bunch of samples of tubing from FrozenCPU when I head up there again, and reviewing all of them (including plasticizers), but if this has been done before I don't want to become redundant.


----------



## bigmac11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WebsterXC*
> 
> Wait, isn't Ice Dragon white? You shouldn't be able to see through milk white fluid...
> Just a question to all the more frequent forum goers, is there some massive tubing review somewhere on the forums? I was thinking about getting a bunch of samples of tubing from FrozenCPU when I head up there again, and reviewing all of them (including plasticizers), but if this has been done before I don't want to become redundant.


Yes its white but when I checked the tubbing I drained down enough to see thru. Upon seeing it looked bad I drained the whole thing and my tubes are now VERY cloudy. Looks like my EK res is stained also.


----------



## DevilDriver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I'm interested to see whether or not your system scrubber stuff affected your hardware.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If not I might give PC another shot when I get new tubing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Ceadderman I didn't crack open ether of my water blocks, but my temps are the same as they have always been. So it doesn't seem the blocks clogged up any. And there was no damage to my acrylic swiftech microres 2. So what ever is in the stuff it doesn't effect acrylic.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> How is it that you are the only person to receive this so called sys scrubber and will/are they going to be selling it anytime soon? Also how did you contact Primochill as they NEVER return my emails?
> Thanks, Systemlord.


Systemlord all I did was email them using the contact form on the primochill website, told them what was going on, provided all the order info for the tubing from frozen cpu, and included a few photobucket links to the same pic's I posted here in the thread. got an email back with in a couple days offering to send this in development product they were testing to clean systems up.
I replied back saying sure I'd test it and provided my mailing info. A few days later I had the stuff.
The bottle does say in small print "Not Intended for resale" so not sure when/if they plan on distributing it, or if its a product to mail out for complaints only.


----------



## feniks

I received a reply from Primochill (used their contact form yesterday) and was offered the System Scrubber for testing as well, agreed to it.

anyways, today I ran a piece of soft sponge soaked with dish soap through the tubing (using a thin long stick) and it came right off. I missed a few spots here and there, but it's more or less clean and shiny as new. of course I flushed it thoroughly first with tap water and then distilled water before re-installation.

Interesting thing is that Primochill says it's not a plasticizer (send them a link to my photo on imageshack.us) and they claim it's something else causing it by coming into reaction or so ... wondering if they just want to bounce the fault elsewhere or what else we come up with ... I have some doubts about my silver kill coil tho ... is it possible it's not a pure silver piece after all?


----------



## DevilDriver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> Interesting thing is that Primochill says it's not a plasticizer (send them a link to my photo on imageshack.us) and they claim it's something else causing it by coming into reaction or so ... wondering if they just want to bounce the fault elsewhere or what else we come up with ... I have some doubts about my silver kill coil tho ... is it possible it's not a pure silver piece after all?


Thats the same thing they told me and the recommended a couple of there products and said to not use distilled and kill coil. Any way it goes I haven't had any issues since sys scrubber.


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DevilDriver*
> 
> Thats the same thing they told me and the recommended a couple of there products and said to not use distilled and kill coil. Any way it goes I haven't had any issues since sys scrubber.


wow. so it might be their tactics - deny all fault, blame all else, but to calm the situation send the customer a bottle of THEIR formula of system scrubber to clean up the mess with THEIR tubing ... interesting.

how do you use that system scrubber? add a few drops then flush thoroughly in order to refill with water or you keep it at all times in there?


----------



## DevilDriver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> how do you use that system scrubber? add a few drops then flush thoroughly in order to refill with water or you keep it at all times in there?


Add the entire contents of the bottle to your loop, let it run for 4+ days until tubing is cleaned, flush and refill system.
For me it took about a week and a half for my tubing to clean. It was kind of cool watching the tubing clean up day by day.

O'yea if you go back through the thread and find my post right after sys scrub flush and look at the pic's, the water you drain from your loop will be colored. My tubing is red, the water came out pink.


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DevilDriver*
> 
> Add the entire contents of the bottle to your loop, let it run for 4+ days until tubing is cleaned, flush and refill system.
> For me it took about a week and a half for my tubing to clean. It was kind of cool watching the tubing clean up day by day.
> O'yea if you go back through the thread and find my post right after sys scrub flush and look at the pic's, the water you drain from your loop will be colored. My tubing is red, the water came out pink.


thanks! I just emailed them my mailing address, will be getting the scrubber soon! will try finding your post with pics to see how it went with you


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DevilDriver*
> 
> ok, sorry pic's are not great, all I have is my old iphone. So I ran the Primochill sys scrubber for a little over a week, directions say run it for four days.
> Contacting Primochill after receiving it I was told it may need to be left in the loop for longer than four days to clean heavy deposits.
> first pic is before sys scrubber, second pic is what came out of my loop after sys scrubber and following pic's are after sys scrubber.
> NOTE: loop is distilled water and silver kill coil only.
> Also when I asked how to previent the issue from happening again I was told
> "As far as keeping your system clean we recommend NOT using just water and a Silver Coil. We can recommend using our "liquid utopia" in your system with DI water and this will protect your systems at all times against "build up", and other "nasties" that could make there way into your system"


OMG! that is nasty!!! did you have to disconnect and remove all components to remove all that colored water? as far as I know a simple drain removes around 70% of fluid, the rest stays in pockets until you disconnect each and every components and flip them over a bucket ...

... so ultimately what causes it, anybody know? dye & plasticizer in primoflex tubing comes into reaction with silver particles? I think I saw someone's post who did NOT use silver kill coil and yet the white powder buildup still happened and in even shorter time (2 weeks) ...

why would De-Ionized water be better over Distilled water (this one has no organic or chemical contaminants)?

once I get that scrubber I will run it for a week in my system and flush it out ... planning to refill with DW+silver again.


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> wow. so it might be their tactics - deny all fault, blame all else, but to calm the situation send the customer a bottle of THEIR formula of system scrubber to clean up the mess with THEIR tubing ... interesting.


This has been my point all along, and I have been following this thread from the beginning. I don't fault Primochill anymore than anyone else for the fact it is happening, I do not have any evidence that it is not happening with other tubing, nor can I state irrevocably that I do not share any of the blame for what happened in my tubing. What I do blame them for is their constant denial of any fault what so ever, when it would seem apparent that they have some part to play. In fact, they flat out lied to me, telling me a new batch was sent to me, then telling me it was lost by th post office, then telling me they would send me some more. Of course, none ever showed up.

End result, I shall certainly never buy anything from Primochill, and I will tell eveyone who will listen every chance I get what crappy customer service they have, and that they do not stand behind their product. They are certainly no OCZ or EVGA, both of whom leave no stone unturned to ensure customer satisfaction.


----------



## nyk20z3

I was initially using Primochill 1/2''x3/4'' Clear tubing for my build but switched to Primochill UV Green.

After removing the clear tubing this past week after it was installed for about 2 weeks i noticed it was all clouded up lol

I am running Distilled Water,Mayhems UV green coolant,Killcoil.

The same thing may or may not happen to my UV green tubing but i don't plan on draining the loop for at least 6 months of use.


----------



## sticks435

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> They are certainly no OCZ or EVGA, both of whom leave no stone unturned to ensure customer satisfaction.


off topic, but really? OCZ and good customer service? First I've heard of that lol.


----------



## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sticks435*
> 
> off topic, but really? OCZ and good customer service? First I've heard of that lol.


my old lan team had minor sponsorship from them way back when.. great products but crappy service...


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> This has been my point all along, and I have been following this thread from the beginning. I don't fault Primochill anymore than anyone else for the fact it is happening, I do not have any evidence that it is not happening with other tubing, nor can I state irrevocably that I do not share any of the blame for what happened in my tubing. What I do blame them for is their constant denial of any fault what so ever, when it would seem apparent that they have some part to play. In fact, they flat out lied to me, telling me a new batch was sent to me, then telling me it was lost by th post office, then telling me they would send me some more. Of course, none ever showed up.
> End result, I shall certainly never buy anything from Primochill, and I will tell eveyone who will listen every chance I get what crappy customer service they have, and that they do not stand behind their product. They are certainly no OCZ or EVGA, both of whom leave no stone unturned to ensure customer satisfaction.


I am afraid this is much more complicated than a simple bad batch problem ... it actually could be their evil marketing strategy boosting sales of their other products (liquid utopia sells much better nowadays I assume) that when used together with primoflex do not cause the problem at all (don't know really just guessing, maybe they still do) ...

it seems there is no single "evil" component in our loops triggering the problem and yet it doesn't happen always ... wondering if it happens mostly because so many of us use Distilled Water with a Silver Kill Coil ...

for future I may simply look elsewhere for transparent UV colored tubing ... but the problem seems unfortunately not limited to Primochill only and their tubing resists kinks nicely unlike so many others ...


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pvt.joker*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> a .12gauge bore snake should get it clean enough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> would imagine the wire brush part of the snake might not be the best for the tubing...
Click to expand...

No, don't use the wire head use the wadding head. It'll put enough pressure against the tubing to remove the gunk. Next you'll think that I'm suggesting the use of gun solvent but I'm not so just in case...









~Ceadder


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sticks435*
> 
> off topic, but really? OCZ and good customer service? First I've heard of that lol.


I have used OCZ products for ten years. I have had issues twice, once with memory, once with a PSU. Both times OCZ took care of me without complaint, without hesitation, without BS.

Your results may vary. Mine were good.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *sticks435*
> 
> off topic, but really? OCZ and good customer service? First I've heard of that lol.
> 
> 
> 
> I have used OCZ products for ten years. I have had issues twice, once with memory, once with a PSU. Both times OCZ took care of me without complaint, without hesitation, without BS.
> 
> Your results may vary. Mine were good.
Click to expand...

Having worked with them, their Customer Service sucks. Mostly due to boiler room help center and Forum. Once the customer finally gets help, they are so happy they forget they were angry about the Crapsistance that OCZ has become world renowned for. I suspect that is why you are satisfied with them Proton.









About the only product I'll consider buying from OCZ anymore is their SSD modules. But even then I'd rather go with Corsair.









On this tubing issue however I think that it's not a case of deflecting the problem. They most certainly are not the only company affected by this and they've come up with a solution that from what I can see is worthwhile. What they oughtta do now is to prophylacticly include a bottle with every hose kit and offer the stuff at reasonable cost for those who buy it by the foot. That is how you make friends and influence enemies like Proton.







j/k mate don't blow a gasket now.







lol

~Ceadder


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> On this tubing issue however I think that it's not a case of deflecting the problem. They most certainly are not the only company affected by this and they've come up with a solution that from what I can see is worthwhile. What they oughtta do now is to prophylacticly include a bottle with every hose kit and offer the stuff at reasonable cost for those who buy it by the foot. That is how you make friends and influence enemies like Proton.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> j/k mate don't blow a gasket now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol
> ~Ceadder


^ha ha LOL! good one


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Having worked with them, their Customer Service sucks. Mostly due to boiler room help center and Forum. Once the customer finally gets help, they are so happy they forget they were angry about the Crapsistance that OCZ has become world renowned for. I suspect that is why you are satisfied with them Proton.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About the only product I'll consider buying from OCZ anymore is their SSD modules. But even then I'd rather go with Corsair.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On this tubing issue however I think that it's not a case of deflecting the problem. They most certainly are not the only company affected by this and they've come up with a solution that from what I can see is worthwhile. What they oughtta do now is to prophylacticly include a bottle with every hose kit and offer the stuff at reasonable cost for those who buy it by the foot. That is how you make friends and influence enemies like Proton.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> j/k mate don't blow a gasket now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol
> ~Ceadder


It would appear that you feel the same way towards OCZ that I feel towards Primochill. At the end of the day, companies should live or die according to the level of customer loyalty they instill. There will always be customers who are unhappy with a company, no matter how many there are that disagree. The more customers you have that are unhappy, the better chance of not meeting your business plan and fading to oblivion. I hope that happens to Primochill, you hope it happens to OCZ. It is similar to that adage, "He who has the most toys when he dies wins".

This "^ha ha LOL! good one wink.gif" just makes no sense to me at all, but, he appears to be having a good time, so laugh on.


----------



## PapaSmurf6768

So I'm setting up my first loop with Primochill blue tubing, and at the end of the day should I not run distilled and a killcoil (like I was planning) and fall for their trap and buy "Liquid Utopia"?


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PapaSmurf6768*
> 
> So I'm setting up my first loop with Primochill blue tubing, and at the end of the day should I not run distilled and a killcoil (like I was planning) and fall for their trap and buy "Liquid Utopia"?


that is the question of the year it appears ... I've got the same one ... it appears also that Clear Utopia syringe for 1 loop fill is just $4.95 +s/h from jabtech tho ...
http://www.jab-tech.com/Primochill-Liquid-Utopia-Clear-pr-3768.html


----------



## PapaSmurf6768

Just went for it, $6.65 shipped to me via USPS. Better safe than sorry I guess, and now primochill can't yell at me if anything goes wrong because ill have primochill tubing, water, and LU!


----------



## feniks

yup, $6.65 shipped (with "facebook" discount code), I took 1 syringe too LOL!








... I guess I was right about that evil marketing strategy which boosts Primochill additive sales ...


----------



## bigmac11

Wow what a brilliant plan...make tubing so it clouds up...market "miracle cure" for only $6.65. Yeah they'll buy it







No disrespect ment toward anyone I just find this to be total BS . Revert back to the original formula that was great and earned Primochill the great rep with tubing.


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigmac11*
> 
> Wow what a brilliant plan...make tubing so it clouds up...market "miracle cure" for only $6.65. Yeah they'll buy it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No disrespect ment toward anyone I just find this to be total BS . Revert back to the original formula that was great and earned Primochill the great rep with tubing.


exactly ... my question stays open - is there any other alternative to colored UV tubing which doesn't follow the same evil path?


----------



## bigmac11

None that I know of and please don't use Ice Dragon on any of your tubbing. Learned my lesson the hard way


----------



## NASzi

Ok guys so I just swapped over from primo-chill to durelene, i cut open a piece of the primo chill that i've been using for a couple of months and it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be, there was a good bit of residue but I think the red dye in my loop dyed the plasticizer so it wasn't really worth taking a picture of it but something was def. there. Here's a shot of my new setup:


----------



## PapaSmurf6768

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigmac11*
> 
> Wow what a brilliant plan...make tubing so it clouds up...market "miracle cure" for only $6.65. Yeah they'll buy it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No disrespect ment toward anyone I just find this to be total BS . Revert back to the original formula that was great and earned Primochill the great rep with tubing.


Yeah I don't like it either, but if it works then I have no complaints. I just wasn't willing save 7 bucks and then knowing I'd get buildup if I used my killcoil. What is this "original formula" you speak of?


----------



## Ceadderman

Can someone link the page to PC? I looked it up on FB and all I get is a new page with no information or anything else at all on it.









~Ceadder


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> @ElGreco... If you have any new Copper blocks or Rads I suspect that it's from that bro. At least with the black. My White PC has that patina in it from my exposed Copper CPU block. I'm pretty sure if I replaced all my tubing that it would lessen over time as the internal chamber starts to turn a brownish tinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Well, Copper in my loop? Just a few "kilometers" found in my new MORA3 rad... Thats why i ask if everybody has this color when he scrubs the powder. Initially i worked on the blue tube and thought it was normal... but when i show the same bluish green color of powder on the black tube i worried?!


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> @ElGreco... If you have any new Copper blocks or Rads I suspect that it's from that bro. At least with the black. My White PC has that patina in it from my exposed Copper CPU block. I'm pretty sure if I replaced all my tubing that it would lessen over time as the internal chamber starts to turn a brownish tinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Copper in my loop? Just a few "kilometers" found in my new MORA3 rad... Thats why i ask if everybody has this color when he scrubs the powder. Initially i worked on the blue tube and thought it was normal... but when i show the same bluish green color of powder on the black tube i worried?!
Click to expand...

If I understand you correctly, I would say no you shouldn't be worried.









~Ceadder


----------



## PapaSmurf6768

Thought I'd share my experience thus far. I ordered 7 feet of Primochill LRT tubing in UV blue for my first loop from FrozenCPU. After I'd rigged up all the hose I started to flush the system with pure distilled for a couple hours. I then drained that and just let it sit for a while with no fluid in it. I covered up the rig with some towels to keep the light out in case anything funky wanted to start growing, and put it aside to wait for the liquid utopia I had ordered. I just checked in on it today and I could already tell it was getting a little cloudy in there, but there was no fluid or anything! Very weird.

I took all the tubing out to look at it, and sure enough it looked like a thin white film was forming on the inside, like the early stages of the more extreme cases you guys have posted. So what I did was I got my sink running with some really hot water, and got some paper towels. I balled up the wet paper towels, then shoved em through the tubes multiple times with a gun cleaning rod, although the stuff came off in one pass I wanted to be thorough. The tubes now look like they did day 1, but after they dry off and settle I'm not sure if the stuff will come back.

My theory is I don't think this stuff is plasticizer, but something else that Primochill put in that is leaching out, whether they designed it that way or not, I don't know. I'll post again in a day or two if I have any updates.


----------



## WebsterXC

Hmm...interesting results. So even with no fluid, the white/cloudiness still occurred. Let us know what else you find out!


----------



## feniks

PapaSmurf, please list all components used in the loop. I also start believing this not plasticizer what we all see. was it more like white powder or chalk residue? was it leaving a blue hint on white clean paper towel?
it's possible that it was coming from your radiator. I haven't flushed my rad the fist time I built a loop and can tell that clear tubing I used turned to garbage (clear 7/16'' x 5/8'' XSPC tubing, garbage anyways, looked like I pushed pieces of $hit through it after 2 weeks).

are you using a silver kill coil? I am not so sure if our kill coils are not the guilty one here, my kill coil actually looked a little corroded after I inspected it closely... not so sure this is a pure silver after all ... what if this is a piece of aluminum (it's very soft) covered with a thin layer of "some" silver plating?


----------



## Hanoverfist

Here is a shot of mine

Brand: Primochill Pro LRT
Source: Performance PCS
Purchase Date: 7/24/2012
Color: Black
Transparent: No
Liquid / Additives: Distilled Water
Kill Coil: Yes, 1
Ph Balance: Unknown
Block Materials: Copper
Tubing Dimension: 1/2 x 3/4
Period of Time: 14 days 8/10 to 8/24
Tubing Conditon: Coated White/ Fine powder
Comments: See Pic

Cut tubing is from Outlet of Res to Pump Inlet


----------



## PapaSmurf6768

My loop at the time of testing consists of:

XPSC D5 Dual Bay Reservoir/Pump Combo
XSPC Raystorm CPU Block
XSPC EX280 Radiator
XSPC Black Nickel Compression FIttings
Primochill LRT UV Blue Tubing, 7/16" x 5/8"
Primochill Deionized Water

I was using only the water in the loop, no additives or silver. When I drained the loop after flushing, everything looked fine. It was after a couple days that I came back and checked and noticed the white film. It was a very thin layer of whiteness, not sure how to describe it. Running water through the tubing didn't get rid of it, but the paper towel got rid of it very easily and even just squeezing the tubing so the two sides touched and then rubbing it a little made it come off. I didn't notice any blue coloring when I ran the paper towel through, in fact I didn't notice anything on the paper towel, the stuff just disappeared.

I've now cleaned the rad out a little better and am hoping when I put the loop back together I won't need to clean it again.


----------



## Simplynicko

here's a question.

could i circulate water thru a bucket with room-temperature water for a couple weeks to leech out the plasticizer? or does the water have to be warm? what brings it out?


----------



## EAnushan

I don't think just water will get it out. I tried running some of my old tubing through water, vinegar and soap. While some of it was removed, I don't know how long it would take to remove it all. Scrubbing it down was far more effective.

Even the cleaner that Primochill offers takes numerous days to completely clean your loop.


----------



## Simplynicko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EAnushan*
> 
> I don't think just water will get it out. I tried running some of my old tubing through water, vinegar and soap. While some of it was removed, I don't know how long it would take to remove it all. Scrubbing it down was far more effective.
> Even the cleaner that Primochill offers takes numerous days to completely clean your loop.


i dont want to clean it. i want it to start forming and then take a rod and napkin to clean it.

will the leeching begin immediately? or do i have to heat it up


----------



## feniks

yeah, that buildup grows slowly when water if flowing through the tubes (as it is on functional system) ... it seems that white film becomes most visible after you actually drain the loop, disassemble it and let it dry ... then it shows up very fast ...

also I tried flushing the tubes with distilled water, then soap and tap water and it did nothing to it at all. however a little piece of sponge, a drop of liquid soap and a stick to push it through cleaned it all almost instantly.

I am still not 100% sure what it is and why some people see a bluish hue to it (e.g. when swiped with white paper towel or a Q-tip) while others don't ...

does anybody using a silver kill coil have seen any kind of build up on it when looking very closely at it?

mine looked like a little corroded maybe (not sure really), but there was some tiny yellowish powder/residue on it in a few spots ... my coil is IandH from FrozenCPU and is only 3 months old ... wondering if I had/have a problem with slight galvanic corrosion or dirty radiator perhaps ... really confused now...

I will surely give a shot to Primochill system scrubber once/if I get it, so far no sign of package, but it's been only 3 days.


----------



## Simplynicko

so i could simply loop 10feet of tube to nothing but a pump and a bucket and it would eventually form after a couple of weeks?


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simplynicko*
> 
> so i could simply loop 10feet of tube to nothing but a pump and a bucket and it would eventually form after a couple of weeks?


I don't know, perhaps this test would explain where this residue is coming from. if it is plasticizer from the tubing itself then yeah, it should form. if it is not then it would mean it's coming from slight galvanic corrosion of copper/brass/nickel/silver components ... I guess...

but first try this, run some distilled water through some short piece of tubing for a day or two and then remove it and let it dry and see if you get the whitish residue on inside walls.


----------



## duhjuh

random thought....stay with me on this
what if the plasticier was always there and was just drying clear and now with a chemical change of tubes(plticiser) its simply drying white and is now visible and the problem was there all along? if anyone has some older (pre problem) primochill tubing maybe we could run a few test to find out..
thoughts?


----------



## Halfdead14

So I just received 10 feet of Tygon E-1000 1/2-3/4" Tubing, and it's not working with compression fittings. I can tug on the tubing barely and it pops right off of the fitting.

Did anyone else get the Tygon E-1000 tubing?


----------



## WebsterXC

I've had the same problem when I got my E-1000. I haven't really figured out how to fix it because it's so waxy. I switched tubing completely so I kind of gave up on the effort.


----------



## nyk20z3

Will this clog or ruin the cpu/gpu blocks over time ?


----------



## Systemlord

There was a thread Mayham started and throughout testing Primochill was the worst offender, they simply cut a piece of tubing to about an inch and let it soak in distilled water overnight in a laboratory grade glass jar and sealed.

By morning they were beginning to turn powder white, the white powder I believe is Primochill's anti-microbial later. They also performed heat testing and at about 40 degrees C water temperature the tubing started showing the most breakdown and producing more white powder!


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Halfdead14*
> 
> So I just received 10 feet of Tygon E-1000 1/2-3/4" Tubing, and it's not working with compression fittings. I can tug on the tubing barely and it pops right off of the fitting.
> Did anyone else get the Tygon E-1000 tubing?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WebsterXC*
> 
> I've had the same problem when I got my E-1000. I haven't really figured out how to fix it because it's so waxy. I switched tubing completely so I kind of gave up on the effort.


For both of you guys aboce. The only fitting that should work with E-1000 is the koolance fittings that's the only fittings in the market that has offer a super tight compression in my experience. or you can use teflon tape over the tubing and tight it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> There was a thread Mayham started and throughout testing Primochill was the worst offender, they simply cut a piece of tubing to about an inch and let it soak in distilled water overnight in a laboratory grade glass jar and sealed.
> By morning they were beginning to turn powder white, the white powder I believe is Primochill's anti-microbial later. They also performed heat testing and at about 40 degrees C water temperature the tubing started showing the most breakdown and producing more white powder!


Primochill still worst offender tubing out there. so i do not recommend it to no one.


----------



## feniks

yeah, I am totally disappointed with Primoflex tubing ... but I chose to keep it for looks (and its flexibility and kink resistance) and will use it with their clear Utopia additive to see if that really helps. added cost I know, and I don't like it either.


----------



## shremi

Ok so i needed to made some changes in my loop in order to perform better and i was using Durelene 1/2 3/4.

Since i didn't knew how many adapters or angles i needed i decided to buy from a member here on OCN a bunch of fittings and angle adapters but they were 7/16 5/8
then i ordered some durelene 7/16 5/8 from sidewinders.

Now the strange thing is that the 7/16 5/8 tube is not nearly as clear as the 1/2 3/4 strange since they are both durelene. I am starting to think that they maybe sent me the wrong tubing.. Does anyone here has both tubes so we can compare ????

Thanks

Shremi


----------



## skyn3t

Gary ( sidewinders owner ) is a trusted guy. he will not going to ripoff us







.

check this link and you will see how I received my Durelene "All the pictures will be Spoiler"

Post Edited: removed all the "Spoiler"


----------



## shremi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Gary ( sidewinders owner ) is a trusted guy. he will not going to ripoff us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> check this link and you will see how I received my Durelene "All the pictures will be Spoiler"
> Post Edited: removed all the "Spoiler"


I know him very well since I purchased a lot of parts from him recently to build 2 entire loops.
He is an amazing guy I am not blaming him I just wanted to see if the 1/2 tubing is clearer than the 7/16 tube. So I asked here.

I'll try to take some pictures later tonight so you can be able to see what I meant. Not blaming anyone here.


----------



## feniks

received the primochill system scrubber, just added it to my loop. will see if it removes some white varnish (my cleaning wasn't thorough it seems), will keep it for 4 days and flush out.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shremi*
> 
> I know him very well since I purchased a lot of parts from him recently to build 2 entire loops.
> He is an amazing guy I am not blaming him I just wanted to see if the 1/2 tubing is clearer than the 7/16 tube. So I asked here.
> I'll try to take some pictures later tonight so you can be able to see what I meant. Not blaming anyone here.


I know you not blaming nobody







I just gave some head up







I will be waiting for those pictures, maybe the 3/4 is more clear because of the ID,Have you thought about it ?


----------



## 47 Knucklehead

Well, after reading a bunch of this thread, I went ahead and pulled the trigger on 20' of Durelene tubing from Sidewinder, a silver coil, and Mayhem Blue dye. I guess next weekend I 'll be tearing down my loop, cleaning it and replacing all the Primochill tubing and FluidXP+ coolant.

Hopefully all goes well.


----------



## bigmac11

Honestly if I had my loop to do over I would run distilled with a coil for a few days or weeks with nothing else. I made the mistake of running distilled to check for leaks and then drained and added Ice Dragon and now my Durelene is clouded







I've used Mayhem in the past and had no issues, but try out your loop w/o it for a while.


----------



## PapaSmurf6768

Quick update on my testing with the UV Blue LRT tubing. Today I gathered up the tubing i was using in my loop before, and threw it in a big bowl of distilled water for an hour or so. I took it out, let it dry and let it sit for a while. About 8 hours from after I removed the tubing from the water, the tubing still looks like new. Basically what I tried to do with this test was replicate the conditions the tubing was in in my loop, without all the components (so basically just filled with water). This is making me think that the tubing is reacting with something in typical water loops, but not silver because I didn't have silver in my loop when I used the tubing for the first time. Either that or after I had cleaned the tubing the first time I wiped away the rest of the coating that would have appeared had i not cleaned it out. This whole thing is really weird to me...


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigmac11*
> 
> Honestly if I had my loop to do over I would run distilled with a coil for a few days or weeks with nothing else. I made the mistake of running distilled to check for leaks and then drained and added Ice Dragon and now my Durelene is clouded
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've used Mayhem in the past and had no issues, but try out your loop w/o it for a while.


I do like to see some pictures if you could please.


----------



## Tom114

So what tubing is the best to get if I'm going with distilled water, a kill coil and mayhems blue dye? I live in the netherlands so I'd have to order durelene from sidewinders and the shipping would cost about 20 dollars for 6 feet of tubing. Is there other tubing that doesn't cloud?


----------



## feniks

just to update. it's been a little over 12 hours with primochill system scrubber in the loop and most (if not all) of the whitish residue is already gone from tubing walls. last night I shook the reservoir a little and saw tiny yellowish/whitish flakes in water, so I guess it's working well. I will keep it until Sunday 6-7pm and drain it out (and then refill with distilled water and drain again).


----------



## Hanoverfist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> just to update. it's been a little over 12 hours with primochill system scrubber in the loop and most (if not all) of the whitish residue is already gone from tubing walls. last night I shook the reservoir a little and saw tiny yellowish/whitish flakes in water, so I guess it's working well. I will keep it until Sunday 6-7pm and drain it out (and then refill with distilled water and drain again).


Interesting..do you have a filter to catch the flakes? I have been using a cut piece of Sponge and a push rod..PITA


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hanoverfist*
> 
> Interesting..do you have a filter to catch the flakes? I have been using a cut piece of Sponge and a push rod..PITA


no filter. I let it circulate for 3 more days then flush out. I did sponge & stick cleaning and it was messy and annoying, but that maybe because my stick was a tad too short haha! however I ran the sponge only once per tube and noticed too late I did not as thorough cleaning as I thought I did (removed around 90% of residue this way though).
however I decided to run the scrubber solution, because I had no idea what might sit inside the older RX240 radiator and Raystorm CPU block (other components are brand new).


----------



## Hanoverfist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> no filter. I let it circulate for 3 more days then flush out. I did sponge & stick cleaning and it was messy and annoying, but that maybe because my stick was a tad too short haha! however I ran the sponge only once per tube and noticed too late I did not as thorough cleaning as I thought I did (removed around 90% of residue this way though).
> however I decided to run the scrubber solution, because I had no idea what might sit inside the older RX240 radiator and Raystorm CPU block (other components are brand new).


Good to know ..Thanks


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Halfdead14*
> 
> So I just received 10 feet of Tygon E-1000 1/2-3/4" Tubing, and it's not working with compression fittings. I can tug on the tubing barely and it pops right off of the fitting.
> 
> Did anyone else get the Tygon E-1000 tubing?


Might be a little late but...

Have you tried dipping the ends of your tubing in hot water to make it a bit more pliable and easier to work with? If not that's what I would suggest. You'll have to let it sit long enough to let the temp soak into the tubing though. Maybe even near boiling point temp?









~Ceadder


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> just to update. it's been a little over 12 hours with primochill system scrubber in the loop and most (if not all) of the whitish residue is already gone from tubing walls. last night I shook the reservoir a little and saw tiny yellowish/whitish flakes in water, so I guess it's working well. I will keep it until Sunday 6-7pm and drain it out (and then refill with distilled water and drain again).


So when will Primochill include this system scrubber so all of us can have a powder free loop or is it still in testing?


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> So when will Primochill include this system scrubber so all of us can have a powder free loop or is it still in testing?


I don't see Primochill making this readily available. That would be admitting thee is a problem, something they seem to refuse to do. I am, frankly, surprised they did anything at all. Their response to date to most people is that it is not their fault, therefore, not their problem, no matter what evidence is provided.


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> So when will Primochill include this system scrubber so all of us can have a powder free loop or is it still in testing?


or you need to do is cut open one small section of tubing, take a pic, upload somewhere and send a link to Primochill via Contact form on their website with short description of problem. they will send you the system scrubber for free (of course they will deny all fault on their side and offer the sys scrubber as a token of good will ha ha!).


----------



## feniks

I don't even know where to start... today I spent a few long hours on draining the system from sys scrubber aftermath (all water became whitish clouded, no longer transparent after 4 days of use) ...

anyways, despite the extreme problems with draining of my loop, I discovered a few disturbing things:
1) water + silver kill coil became white in the loop after 4 days of sys scrubber use, also it was foamy when drained like there was soap in it (probably was)
2) 2 sections of tubing, one long other super short, did NOT get scrubbed, so I replaced the long one with new piece and scrubber the short one manually (ran out of new long enough tubing by now) - that is NOT A GOOD SIGN
3) I flushed most of components (except new pump and new EX360 - both hard to remove and even harder to re-install) under hot tap water and to my dread I discovered 2 small blobs of blue gel that came out of my Raystorm CPU block!
4) I will NEVER use Primochill again, to hell with them! if that is not plasticizer seeping, I don't know what that is, but it created sediment in the loop which deposits in blocks most likely (my Raystorm did) and all the system scrubber can do with it is gelify or liquify that sediment, but mind that water flow of loop will NOT remove it - it still needs to get flushed with hot tap water (or disassemble the block)
5) my formerly "dirty" silver kill coil was looking fresh and brand new today, so the system scrubber did clean it in process. Either way I removed the coil from system entirely and decided not to use silver anymore. Instead I injected Primochill Utopia (3mL) into the fresh refilled loop and will see how it goes from there.

either way it's a FAIL.

Does anybody know any other UV blue tubing 1/2'' x 3/4'' which is free of that darn problem?


----------



## Hanoverfist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> I don't even know where to start... today I spent a few long hours on draining the system from sys scrubber aftermath (all water became whitish clouded, no longer transparent after 4 days of use) ...
> anyways, despite the extreme problems with draining of my loop, I discovered a few disturbing things:
> 1) water + silver kill coil became white in the loop after 4 days of sys scrubber use, also it was foamy when drained like there was soap in it (probably was)
> 2) 2 sections of tubing, one long other super short, did NOT get scrubbed, so I replaced the long one with new piece and scrubber the short one manually (ran out of new long enough tubing by now) - that is NOT A GOOD SIGN
> 3) I flushed most of components (except new pump and new EX360 - both hard to remove and even harder to re-install) under hot tap water and to my dread I discovered 2 small blobs of blue gel that came out of my Raystorm CPU block!
> 4) I will NEVER use Primochill again, to hell with them! if that is not plasticizer seeping, I don't know what that is, but it created sediment in the loop which deposits in blocks most likely (my Raystorm did) and all the system scrubber can do with it is gelify or liquify that sediment, but mind that water flow of loop will NOT remove it - it still needs to get flushed with hot tap water (or disassemble the block)
> 5) my formerly "dirty" silver kill coil was looking fresh and brand new today, so the system scrubber did clean it in process. Either way I removed the coil from system entirely and decided not to use silver anymore. Instead I injected Primochill Utopia (3mL) into the fresh refilled loop and will see how it goes from there.
> either way it's a FAIL.
> Does anybody know any other UV blue tubing 1/2'' x 3/4'' which is free of that darn problem?


God!!!!!! From BAD to Worse with this Company.. I myself will never buy from them again. After what happened in my tubing and reading your story. I cant recommend any tubing but clear Durelene now..


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hanoverfist*
> 
> God!!!!!! From BAD to Worse with this Company.. I myself will never buy from them again. After what happened in my tubing and reading your story. I cant recommend any tubing but clear Durelene now..


yeah, what happened could turn out into a disaster if I didn't flush the components after draining them ... for sure I won't buy Primoflex ever again ... but I might give a shot to 2 other brands carrying UV Blue (I like it), either Feser tubing or Danger Den DreamFlex ... hopefully they are better than PrimoCrap.
for now I will keep the loop as is and keep observing the tubing from time to time, any sign of residue coming back or water changing color, I will throw it all to garbage, I swear.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Here is my contribution to the Primochill farce,
> I used:
> PrimoChill PrimoFlex PRO LRT Tubing UV Blue 13/10mm
> Distilled Water
> Kill coil
> Mayhem's Extreme (Bio)
> 
> I run my rig 24/7, and the tubing was purchased at the end of April.
> I stripped my rig 2 days ago and the photos below clearly show the severe plasticizer problem that i had by using Primochill,the reservoir and fittings also had some plasticizer deposits, but very mild compared to my blocks and tubing- It must be noted that from May up until now i had changed the water and flushed the system 3 times (i like to change my water every 2 months or so).
> I have ordered Duralene from the Sidewinder guys, but in the meanwhile, until it arrives, i am using some old Feser TFC UV clear i had ordered about a year ago but never used-cause i use my pc for work amongst other things.
> I would post some pics of the TFC tubing when i get the Duralene installed, but it may not be long enough to have any severe problems as did the Primochill 'Tubing"-we'll see when the time comes.
> Enjoy the Horror Show
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plasticizer with a blue tinge in my Vid Card block
> 
> Another shot of the block with plasticizer deposits
> 
> Tubing cut open to reveal severe plasticizer deposits (note at the top unused Blue UV Primochill-what a difference!!)
> 
> Feser TFC UV Clear that im using until the Duralene arrives


*UPDATE:*

I have ordered 100ft of duralene 13/10 mm tubing (might sell some on ebay lol just kidding







)
Since the day of my last post, i've been running my loop using:

Feser UV clear Tubing
Distilled Water
Kill coil
Mayhem's Extreme (Bio)
Mayhems Blue Dye (3 drops to achieve the blue tubing effect)

Have a look at the photos (excuse the quality, i have not got round to using the advice from this excellent guide:http://www.overclock.net/t/912437/how-to-photograph-your-rig)

So far there has been absolutely no sign of clouding/powdery deposits etc-i have been running my rig 24/7.

Don't get me wrong, this is not an endorsement for the above products, but rather, more proof that Primochill is the weak link in the so called Plasticizer problem-granted that the time period is not long, but by now, if i were still using Primochill, it would have started to cloud.

REMEMBER, THE FESER UV CLEAR IS NOT CRYSTAL CLEAR DUE TO IT'S UV CAPABILITIES-but trust me when i say that the tubing is 100% deposit free.
I have even tried the trusty 'pinch test' to see if any marks are left on the inside of the tubing.







*BTW:*

@ Feniks: i just came across this product sold by specialtech on Ebay -it seems to be very similar to Primochill's sys scrubber-i cant make out the products name because the photo is not clear -seems to be a generic no name brand imho).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pc-look-Cleaning-Agent-SysClean-HPD-50ml-/320924911126?pt=UK_Computing_Water_Cooling&hash=item4ab89d8616

So has Primochill copied this product? Or is it the other way around? Either way mate, i personally dont like the idea of running such highly abrasive liquids through my rig-just my 2 cents worth to the Plasticizer problem that we face.

With regards to UV blue tubing, you could try the feser uv clear with mayhem's blue dye as i have (see photos for UV effect-again please excuse the amateurish shots, they have been posted as a form of reference as opposed to showing off my rig-that shall come after i read the 'how to' post) or, get Duralene, and add Mayhems uv blue, or make ur own uv blue using UV clear & blue (both from Mayhem's)


----------



## feniks

kkorky, how long was it with feser tubing in 24/7 use, I can't see the date of former post of yours? condition of it is hard to tell from pics, but I trust your word.
my rig is running 24/7 as well, and I am actually seriously considering Feser tubing in near future, something tells me that German quality control might be a win on this one








Primochill failed me in as little as 6 weeks (probably less, but I hadn't noticed the problem until then).

Please post the Feser tubing cut open once you decide to replace it with Duralene, I would be interested in seeing its inside walls.


----------



## kkorky

Ive just provided UV photos(ive also updated the post) the tubing has been in use for 2+wks, but again i stress, that i have used Primochill clear in the past, and the blue LRT that you can see, and BOTH started showing initial signs of clouding after 1+wks, that is not the case with the feser tubing so far-hardly conclusive, but it's still something that can be used as a yardstick.
As for when i get and install the duralene, ofc i will cut the feser open and post photos


----------



## feniks

Thanks!

I am actually googling and binging the internet and can't really find any negative reviews on feser tubing getting clouded or covered with anything (unless dyes were used, some staining might occur). it's a good sign








On other hand I found similar poor reviews of DangerDen DreamFlex tubing (clouding, plasticizer seeping) as for Primoflex... I guess I will get some Feser UV Blue tubing and keep it handy for when the time comes ...


----------



## kkorky

Trial and error is the only way imo, but one thing i know for sure is that Promochill has problems.
-btw, one last bit of info, the Feser tubing is stiffer than the Primochill tubing, which would possibly denote less of that chemical that may be responsible for plasticizer leeching/seeping, whilst at the same time making the tubing softer in certain other types of tubing such as Primochill.


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Trial and error is the only way imo, but one thing i know for sure is that Promochill has problems.
> -btw, one last bit of info, the Feser tubing is stiffer than the Primochill tubing, which would possibly denote less of that chemical that may be responsible for plasticizer leeching/seeping, whilst at the same time making the tubing softer in certain other types of tubing such as Primochill.


yeah, I agree. time will tell. I am getting 10ft (~3m) of Feser UV Blue 1/2''x3/4'' along with a decent tube cutter (god, I'm fed up of using titanium scissors!) from Sidewinder Computers. decided to ditch Primoflex before problems come back.
I don't mind working with a little stiffer tubing if that is what it takes to never see the plasticizer leeching problem again.

thanks for all your posts, it helps!

EDIT: left you a rep+ for former post with lots of pics







thanks!


----------



## kkorky

Thanx for the +rep much appreciated, but my drive behind the posts/pics is to do the same that others did for me in this forum when i was first starting out in WC and i didn't have a clue what was what!
90% of my info/advice on how to build a WC rig came from other posters such as yourself, so i'm just doing my bit to keep the ball rolling, whilst at the same time helping to keep the companies that make WC products on their toes because their products are already very expensive, so the least they could do, is sell quality products & admit their shortcomings, when wrong.
Water and electricity in the same confined space-yea right, that's for nerds, and people who have no life-how wrong i was ....................


----------



## Agenesis

Just a little update from me, no plasticizer on the tygon silver tubing even after a few months. Stiff as hell though.

Has anyone discovered any clear tubing with no clouding yet?


----------



## sticks435

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agenesis*
> 
> Just a little update from me, no plasticizer on the tygon silver tubing even after a few months. Stiff as hell though.
> Has anyone discovered any clear tubing with no clouding yet?


Durelene from Sidewinders.com


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> I don't see Primochill making this readily available. That would be admitting thee is a problem, something they seem to refuse to do. I am, frankly, surprised they did anything at all. Their response to date to most people is that it is not their fault, therefore, not their problem, no matter what evidence is provided.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> or you need to do is cut open one small section of tubing, take a pic, upload somewhere and send a link to Primochill via Contact form on their website with short description of problem. they will send you the system scrubber for free (of course they will deny all fault on their side and offer the sys scrubber as a token of good will ha ha!).


So I'll buy some Primochill tubing and soak it in distilled water for a few days and show the white powder coating then get my system scrubber, boy what a way to do business!

Well if they openly admit there is something wrong with their tubing there would be a massive storm of customer's demanding their money back, I imagine Primochill will fix the issue sooner or later and then deny that there was ever a problem.

It's unbelievable the arrogance that some of these small LC shops have, if they want people to continue to buy their tubing they better do something about their problem, or wait a minute there is nothing wrong with Primochills tubing!


----------



## Ceadderman

I'll be shutting the system down later in the week to lapp the CPU. While it's down I'll be checking my tubing out to see how it looks. Not that it would matter much but after seeing that GPU block, I want to check the inside of my CPU block to see if there are any issues I need to be aware of. I doubt I'm going to have any trouble since this loop has never seen a Silver killcoil, but one never knows til one does the maintenance and gives it the ole thrice over.









~Ceadder


----------



## kkorky

*FURTHER UPDATE*

I had also sent Primochill a link to my original post, and i got a reply:

*Hello K,
Sorry for the late reply been a little crazy with the holiday and short work week.

We are sorry that you are having issues with our tubing. I can assure you that we are aware of the situation and have been working to get it resolved as quickly as possible. We have looked at your post and have a couple simple questions.

Can you tell us all of the components that you used when you had this problem? Fluid, Radiators, Pumps, Fitting etc.
Can you tell us how quickly the "white film" showed up?

Since your tubing is all sliced up, the "scrubber" will not work as intended. But it might up clean up the blocks and other components in the system, if soaking them is an option.

Please let us know what you would like us to you, so we can make sure that your are taking care of and the opinion you might have about PrimoChill is not weighing on you.

Again sorry for the delay, in getting back to you.

Regards,
Brian*

Ok, my opinion on the issue at the moment, is that Primochill are finally starting to come around and *PARTIALLY* accept responsibility-granted they have not stated that directly because, that would open up a can of worms for them, but at least they have not denied culpability either. That in my eyes is a positive, albeit small, nevertheless a positive start.

To be honest, i dont know if i can be bothered to actually list my loop, since there is nothing really that i want from them-*APART FROM DECENT TUBING THAT DOES IT'S JOB -IE RECTIFY THE PROBLEM*, which they claim to be working on.

They have rightly (in a damage control, customer service manner) asked what i would like to be done so i would be somewhat compensated for the faulty tubing, again another plus.
With regards to using the scrubber, i have posted my opinion earlier, stating my view on using such 'solutions', no way!

So, imho, we should just keep the *CONSTRUCTIVE* pressure on Primochill, with a view to both sides coming out winners in the end-they make their money, and in return we get tubing that does it's job properly; sending off to the States for Durelene is such an expensive option.

-i'll keep you guys up to date.

BTW: The feser tubing that im using is still crystal clear, no signs of anything what so ever-kind of makes me regret ordering Durelene, but who knows, i may wake up tomorrow and see the first signs of deposit problems, time will tell









Finally, i have also been given a few litres of Water for injections(NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH SALINE SOLUTION), this is even more 'sterile' than Distilled water-overkill sure







, but it was given for free, so who am i to say no -i'll use it in my next tube change (apparently its only 1 euro per litre)


----------



## feniks

^interesting.

I notified Primochill about my experience with flushing the loop post system scrubber use on yesterday morning. Had no reply from Brian as of yet.
will see, anyways, Primochill has lost me as a customer for good, sadly (I liked that brand!) ... will see how it goes with Feser for me, next weekend will be rebuilding my loop (and flushing all components again), hopefully it works out, because the process is very tiresome for me ...


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> ^interesting.
> I notified Primochill about my experience with flushing the loop post system scrubber use on yesterday morning. Had no reply from Brian as of yet.
> will see, anyways, Primochill has lost me as a customer for good, sadly (I liked that brand!) ... will see how it goes with Feser for me, next weekend will be rebuilding my loop (and flushing all components again), hopefully it works out, because the process is very tiresome for me ...


Sorry to hear that you have to go through that 'routine' again, but it shouldn't be that hard, get Q-tips and do your fittings, same for the innards of your blocks-if the blocks are tarnished-ketchup lol!

The powdery substance actually comes off very easily, as for my rads, i used trusty hot tap water.

I ran the water for about 1/2 hr through the rads (water-bill is going to kill this month), then i flushed out with 2 gallons of De-ionized(cheaper than Distilled water) water i had lying about then i used Distilled water for the final two flushes.

Pump i used q-tips, and the reservoir is self explanatory.


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Sorry to hear that you have to go through that 'routine' again, but it shouldn't be that hard, get Q-tips and do your fittings, same for the innards of your blocks-if the blocks are tarnished-ketchup lol!
> The powdery substance actually comes off very easily, as for my rads, i used trusty hot tap water.
> I ran the water for about 1/2 hr through the rads (water-bill is going to kill this month), then i flushed out with 2 gallons of De-ionized(cheaper than Distilled water) water i had lying about then i used Distilled water for the final two flushes.
> Pump i used q-tips, and the reservoir is self explanatory.


how do you run hot tap water through the rad for 30 minutes? I usually flush it for a couple minutes at most in bathroom sink, each component alone, then flush it twice with distilled water on the end and that pretty much it ... for fittings I usually use a toothbrush and dish soap, then flush them.

not really worried about my pump, res, GPU block and EX360 rad as they are all new components (recently upgraded the loop) and have been used for maybe 2 weeks total (IIRC), so a quick flushing should be sufficient for those, I think.

CPU block looked clean last time after I flushed it with hot tap water (no more blue gel blobs coming out, no more signs of any sediment when peeking inside), so not worried about it either. however I will spend more time on flushing my older RX240 rad this time, god knows what still may sit inside it, was very hard to drain after system scrubber, to the point where I drained the loop downstream of it and disconnected outlet hose from rad and yet there was half a loop full of water upstream from this rad (with the partially clogged CPU block with blue gel, right before the inlet of this rad).


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> how do you run hot tap water through the rad for 30 minutes? I usually flush it for a couple minutes at most in bathroom sink, each component alone, then flush it twice with distilled water on the end and that pretty much it ... for fittings I usually use a toothbrush and dish soap, then flush them.
> not really worried about my pump, res, GPU block and EX360 rad as they are all new components (recently upgraded the loop) and have been used for maybe 2 weeks total (IIRC), so a quick flushing should be sufficient for those, I think.
> CPU block looked clean last time after I flushed it with hot tap water (no more blue gel blobs coming out, no more signs of any sediment when peeking inside), so not worried about it either. however I will spend more time on flushing my older RX240 rad this time, god knows what still may sit inside it, was very hard to drain after system scrubber, to the point where I drained the loop downstream of it and disconnected outlet hose from rad and yet there was half a loop full of water upstream from this rad (with the partially clogged CPU block with blue gel, right before the inlet of this rad).


Either hook up a make shift hose to your tap and tape the other end to one of the two holes on your rad or place your rad directly underneath the high running flow of your tap( hey dude- we're talking high tech stuff here lol)-ideally if the stream is about a foot above it will add to the momentum of the water, but it will be at that 'sweet spot' where it does not damage the fins or channels of your rad.

Also remember to give your rad good hard shakes intermittently (that involves d/cing the rad from the tap if connected) Remember to be careful-THE RAD WILL BE HOT.

Play around with the water flow till you have a strong flow, but not too strong if you follow-better be safe than sorry, ofc there is always the expensive and far more 'professional' method that is employed here:




I don't use vinegar, purely because i'm not sure if the acid content will cause damage-obviously it's also dependent on the gravity of the vinegar, but i never offer advice, if i'm not clear on a particular subject, so someone with better knowledge on the use of vinegar will have to help out there.

As for the use of soap to clean my loop, ive never used it, i don't see the need for it imho -it just seems to prolong the flushing process


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Either hook up a make shift hose to your tap and tape the other end to one of the two holes on your rad or place your rad directly underneath the high running flow of your tap( hey dude- we're talking high tech stuff here lol)-ideally if the stream is about a foot above it will add to the momentum of the water, but it will be at that 'sweet spot' where it does not damage the fins or channels of your rad.
> Play around with the water flow till you have a strong flow, but not too strong if you follow-better be safe than sorry, ofc there is always the expensive and far 'professional' method that is employed here:


hehe thanks, hi-tech or not







I have a problem with it, because my bathroom sink is too small even for a 240 rad LOL! will figure something out, either bath tub tap or the kitchen sink/tap will have to do - it's just the latter one is full of dirty dishes usually and the former one has an un-threaded and wide tap LOL!

so far I did a "semi-automatic flush" (LOL that sounds almost right!) when the rad had short pieces of hoses attached to barbs (fans were attached too actually, but it didn't matter with this method as it's "clean") and I just held one hose to tap securely for a few minutes while other hose was routed to sink drain ... way easier and faster ... but I can't stand like that for 30 minutes LOL!

... will figure something out







thanks for replying.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> hehe thanks, hi-tech or not
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a problem with it, because my bathroom sink is too small even for a 240 rad LOL! will figure something out, either bath tub tap or the kitchen sink/tap will have to do - it's just the latter one is full of dirty dishes usually and the former one has an un-threaded and wide tap LOL!
> so far I did a "semi-automatic flush" (LOL that sounds almost right!) when the rad had short pieces of hoses attached to barbs (fans were attached too actually, but it didn't matter with this method as it's "clean") and I just held one hose to tap securely for a few minutes while other hose was routed to sink drain ... way easier and faster ... but I can't stand like that for 30 minutes LOL!
> ... will figure something out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanks for replying.


Anytime mate


----------



## kkorky

Question to all out there: what would you say is the most commonly used size when it comes to tubing & fittings?
This is not a wind up, i am really interested in finding out.
Thanks in advance for all your replies








*
UPDATE*:

Ive started a poll-please refer to that instead-thanks









Poll:http://www.overclock.net/t/1302668/most-commonly-used-fittings-tubing-size-is


----------



## sticks435

7/16 by 5/8th inch.


----------



## Tom114

My durelene has arrived. 1/2 ID, 3/4OD is pretty big. I think a smaller one could have been enough.


----------



## ElGreco

I just ordered 6 bottles of sysclean by specialtech just to clean ONLY my mora3 rad after 7 months of primochill tubes usage. Has anybody used this product? Is it like the primochill product or we dont know?

http://specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/SysClean-Watercooling-High-Power-Limescale-Remover--Cleaning-Fluid--50ml-pid-5741.html

Specialtech guys (who i trust quite a lot) strongly recommended to use it with distilled water. Other alternatives i had were the tap water with vinegar.

What do you recommend?


----------



## oicwutudidthar

Guys, is there any tubing that DOESN'T have these problems right now?

I was planning on using some black primoflex that i bought, but now I am scared to because of this thread.

I am going to be using Mayhems Ice White Coolant.


----------



## Hanoverfist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicwutudidthar*
> 
> Guys, is there any tubing that DOESN'T have these problems right now?
> I was planning on using some black primoflex that i bought, but now I am scared to because of this thread.
> I am going to be using Mayhems Ice White Coolant.


I assume you wanted the Ice white to show in your res with the Black tubing as well.. I have the Black Primochill and it got coated quite quickly along with the Res at the Waterline.. If you must have black tubing Feser makes it in black but not seeing or finding any comments about leaching.. Its a little spendy though. Not sure what size your after.
http://www.tfc-us.com/shop/en/TUBES/Feser-Tube-1/2-ID-3/4-OD/UV-BLACK/Feser-Tube-Active-UV-Hose-1/2-ID-3/4-OD-UV-BLACK


----------



## duhjuh

so guys this week is the week...im about to tear down my loop and show you guys the results
i was running primochill proflex 3/8,5/8 tubing with *half a bottle* of primochill concentrated blood red dyebomber and a silver kill coil
i tell you just from looking at my res that the water went from dark blood red(almost black) to a now peach color and i can tell it really stained my tubing so when my giant order from xoxide comes in ill be trying out xspc "red"/uv orange(it looks orange even in normal light i have no idea where they got red from) tubing of the the same size with fluid xp uv alien green which me thinks will give a good glowing effect in my tubes and res i will be removing all watercooling parts washing out everything with a water /vinegar solution cutting open my tubing to take pics removing my kill coil and letting it sit in some clean distilled water for a few hours before putting it all back together with my new uv cathodes and taking some pic after the first few hours of leak testing
and yes i know the much dyebomb has no doubt deposited in my water block and ill probably spend a fe hours scrubbing it with an electric tooth brush and vinegar/water mix









be prepare to see my train wreck of stain tubing and pink/peach fluid









this is gonna be fun


----------



## duhjuh

btw does anyone know if fluid xp still make their Jekyll /Hyde fluid anymore? if so where can i get it or how can i replicate it?
EDIT: they still do but its 80 bucks for a 64 oz bottle








wonder in i can replicate this of if mayhems has anything similar
i felt ripped of for the alien green fluid xp i am not about to shell out 80 bucks a bottle no matter how cool the effect is lol
any tips guys?


----------



## GoodInk

You can ask here


----------



## duhjuh

sent mayhem a pm and the one gallon of dr/hyde is a better value but id still rather have mayhems if possible


----------



## feniks

this weekend I finally removed all primochill tubing and flushed all components (no more surprises came out) under hot tap water for good 15-25 minutes each, then rinsed with a gallon of distilled water (each). put everything back together with Feser Active UV Blue (1/2'' x 3/4'' from sidewindercomputers) and a silver kill coil again (not operational yet, waiting for my CPU replacement to arrive in a few days).

I hope Feser + coil stay clean long, not planning to drain it until I acquire the second GPU by the end of year.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> so guys this week is the week...im about to tear down my loop and show you guys the results
> i was running primochill proflex 3/8,5/8 tubing with *half a bottle* of primochill concentrated blood red dyebomber and a silver kill coil
> i tell you just from looking at my res that the water went from dark blood red(almost black) to a now peach color and i can tell it really stained my tubing so when my giant order from xoxide comes in ill be trying out xspc "red"/uv orange(it looks orange even in normal light i have no idea where they got red from) tubing of the the same size with fluid xp uv alien green which me thinks will give a good glowing effect in my tubes and res i will be removing all watercooling parts washing out everything with a water /vinegar solution cutting open my tubing to take pics removing my kill coil and letting it sit in some clean distilled water for a few hours before putting it all back together with my new uv cathodes and taking some pic after the first few hours of leak testing
> and yes i know the much dyebomb has no doubt deposited in my water block and ill probably spend a fe hours scrubbing it with an electric tooth brush and vinegar/water mix
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> be prepare to see my train wreck of stain tubing and pink/peach fluid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is gonna be fun


Take the pictures before you clean the stuff with vinegar mate







(just saying, because you have listed cleaning before the picture taking-mybe im being *n*l)


----------



## duhjuh

oh trust me i will be talcking PLENTY of challenges and taking plenty of photos along the way if xspc + fluid xp works nicely i might give their Jekyll/Hyde formula a try ..is not mayhems has instructed me on how to get a similar effect and we all know that will be perfect esp since if i go mayhems ill just replace my tubes with duralene ones ...


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> oh trust me i will be talcking PLENTY of challenges and taking plenty of photos along the way if xspc + fluid xp works nicely i might give their Jekyll/Hyde formula a try ..is not mayhems has instructed me on how to get a similar effect and we all know that will be perfect esp since if i go mayhems ill just replace my tubes with duralene ones ...


Nice one-looking forward to pictures on all of the areas mentioned-especially the Mayhem's Jekyll/Hyde copy









Btw people, another week has gone by, still no sign whatsoever of depositing in my tubes, they are still crystal clear. (Feser uv clear 13mm/10mm)


----------



## Agenesis

That scrubber stuff works. Anyone know what it is made of? My res is now looking like one of those chrisms snow globes. All I need is some primochill clear tubing and some scrubber stuff to make a Christmas themed build. Maybe some leds too.

Seriously though, thanks for the sample primochill. Cleaned my fittings right up.


----------



## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Nice one-looking forward to pictures on all of the areas mentioned-especially the Mayhem's Jekyll/Hyde copy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Btw people, another week has gone by, still no sign whatsoever of depositing in my tubes, they are still crystal clear. (Feser uv clear 13mm/10mm)


the jykell/hyde copy isnt until next tiem this time im trying xspc uv orange tubing with fluid xp alien green uv...


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> the jykell/hyde copy isnt until next tiem this time im trying xspc uv orange tubing with fluid xp alien green uv...


Ah ok, i misunderstood, due to lazily skimming through your post instead of reading it properly-it was very late at night/early in the morning


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agenesis*
> 
> That scrubber stuff works. Anyone know what it is made of? My res is now looking like one of those chrisms snow globes. All I need is some primochill clear tubing and some scrubber stuff to make a Christmas themed build. Maybe some leds too.
> Seriously though, thanks for the sample primochill. Cleaned my fittings right up.


My humble advice to you is to keep an eye on your fittings and seals/ o rings etc now,
for a solvent to be able to basically strip the stuff from inside a rig, would mean that its very powerful, there is a very good chance of knock on effects.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Agenesis*
> 
> That scrubber stuff works. Anyone know what it is made of? My res is now looking like one of those chrisms snow globes. All I need is some primochill clear tubing and some scrubber stuff to make a Christmas themed build. Maybe some leds too.
> Seriously though, thanks for the sample primochill. Cleaned my fittings right up.
> 
> 
> 
> My humble advice to you is to keep an eye on your fittings and seals/ o rings etc now,
> for a solvent to be able to basically strip the stuff from inside a rig, would mean that its very powerful, there is a very good chance of knock on effects.
Click to expand...

Yep, and think about the o-rings in the cpu block


----------



## Systemlord

It seems like the solution is to buy the Primochill tubing and then run the scrubber stuff through the tubing only before installing it in your loop.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> It seems like the solution is to buy the Primochill tubing and then run the scrubber stuff through the tubing only before installing it in your loop.


Or just not buy their tubing at all


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Or just not buy their tubing at all


+1 this!
I am giving a shot to Feser Active UV Blue, it's already installed, just waiting for new CPU, so I can install the cpu block and complete the loop ... if any problems happen with Feser tubing I will post back here.

also, I don't understand why people say Feser tubing is stiff ... I found it nearly same flexible as Primoflex ... it also carries nearly exact same color (without UV, haven't tested with UV yet) ... hmmm


----------



## Lee17

I have Feser Black / UV Blue tubing in my loop since June and they aren't stiff at all and they look good. I don't plane to break my loop soon but my temp are ok and my water in the reservoir look clean so far.

I haven't test the UV on it since the UV CCFL were out of stock when I upgrade my loop.

Lee17


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lee17*
> 
> I have Feser Black / UV Blue tubing in my loop since June and they aren't stiff at all and they look good. I don't plane to break my loop soon but my temp are ok and my water in the reservoir look clean so far.
> I haven't test the UV on it since the UV CCFL were out of stock when I upgrade my loop.
> Lee17


thanks for sharing your experience with Feser, it sounds like good news to me


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> It seems like the solution is to buy the Primochill tubing and then run the scrubber stuff through the tubing only before installing it in your loop.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Or just not buy their tubing at all


Amen! I have never understood the concept of trying to fix something that can't be fixed. Primochill CLEARLY has problems right now, so many posters have verified this fact, yet some people dont want to listen *sigh* Anyway its their choice.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> +1 this!
> I am giving a shot to Feser Active UV Blue, it's already installed, just waiting for new CPU, so I can install the cpu block and complete the loop ... if any problems happen with Feser tubing I will post back here.
> also, I don't understand why people say Feser tubing is stiff ... I found it nearly same flexible as Primoflex ... it also carries nearly exact same color (without UV, haven't tested with UV yet) ... hmmm


Having gone from Primochill to Feser, i can understand those claims. Feser is indeed stiffer, and kinks before Primochill does, but according to certain theories, its the chemical in some tubing that gives extra elasticity, that is responsible for Clouding and deposits-so it's a trade off.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lee17*
> 
> I have Feser Black / UV Blue tubing in my loop since June and they aren't stiff at all and they look good. I don't plane to break my loop soon but my temp are ok and my water in the reservoir look clean so far.
> I haven't test the UV on it since the UV CCFL were out of stock when I upgrade my loop.
> Lee17


Never use your reservoir as a guide as to whether you tubes are clouded or not. All too often the reservoir remains crystal clear, and so do the fittings -in my case the blocks and tubes had deposits, but the reservoir was clear.

You will not be able to fully tell till you strip down your rig.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> thanks for sharing your experience with Feser, it sounds like good news to me


I have been using UV clear Feser (refer to previous posts) in my loop 24/7 as a temporary measure until my Durelene arrived. The Durelene has arrived and i will not swap out the Feser as yet because there are absolutely NO problems with my Feser tubes









I again attempted to take some photos-the batteries are nearly dead







, but i managed to pull off a few shots-the lettering you can see on the tubes is on the back of the tubes-ie, we are looking through the tube (the 2 walls of the tube) and the lettering is plainly visible. The tubes are 100% clear although my photography is poor at best, i feel that i was able to provide a good enough record.
I am using 10mm/13mm Feser UV Clear, with Distilled Water, 2 drops of Mayhem's Extreme bio, 3 Drops Mayhem's Blue Dye & a silver Kill coil-my system runs 24/7.


----------



## Systemlord

Can't you just use nail polish remover to get rid of the lettering?


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Can't you just use nail polish remover to get rid of the lettering?


I think that you are missing the point of the photos, the photos have been posted as proof of the clarity of the tubes after extended use-the fact that they(the letters) are visible is good, and they have been left on the tube for the expressed purpose of gauging tube clarity


----------



## Lee17

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Never use your reservoir as a guide as to whether you tubes are clouded or not. All too often the reservoir remains crystal clear, and so do the fittings -in my case the blocks and tubes had deposits, but the reservoir was clear.
> You will not be able to fully tell till you strip down your rig.


I know but when I had my R-3603, I press the tubing and it had so much "white gunk" inside it start snowing in my reservoir (imagine my CPU block). It was just like an approximation of the fact. But you are right that I will need to break my loop to see, unfortunately









Anyway, it is good to know that your Feser tubing aren't clouding.

Lee17


----------



## Sazz

can you update my submission for the XSPC 1/2 x 3/4 Clear (UV Blue) tube, I used it for 2month's now and no signs of plastisizer at all.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> I think that you are missing the point of the photos, the photos have been posted as proof of the clarity of the tubes after extended use-the fact that they(the letters) are visible is good, and they have been left on the tube for the expressed purpose of gauging tube clarity


Oh alright, but do you know if nail polish remove will get rid of those letters? I'm going to air cool my new computer build at first before I put everything under water. My board has to prove it's reliabilty before I even start with chipset/VRM blocks!

Much appreciated!


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Oh alright, but do you know if nail polish remove will get rid of those letters? I'm going to air cool my new computer build at first before I put everything under water. My board has to prove it's reliabilty before I even start with chipset/VRM blocks!
> Much appreciated!


Try plain old rubbing alcohol -im not sure about nail polish remover because that's mostly acetone (maybe they are from the same family idk







)
But rubbing alcohol does work, dab a bit onto a cotton bud/ q tip and gently rub on the lettering till it comes off


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Try plain old rubbing alcohol -im not sure about nail polish remover because that's mostly acetone (maybe they are from the same family idk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> But rubbing alcohol does work, dab a bit onto a cotton bud/ q tip and gently rub on the lettering till it comes off


Thank you for that info, but I just had a thought about using MDPC-X sleeving over the tubing as I can't stand clear tubing! It must be a pain to sleeve tubing..?


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Try plain old rubbing alcohol -im not sure about nail polish remover because that's mostly acetone (maybe they are from the same family idk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> But rubbing alcohol does work, dab a bit onto a cotton bud/ q tip and gently rub on the lettering till it comes off
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for that info, but I just had a thought about using MDPC-X sleeving over the tubing as I can't stand clear tubing! It must be a pain to sleeve tubing..?
Click to expand...

Sleeving, no, not messing it up with the fittings, that is another story. I've never done it, but have read some saying it was super hard others said it was easy. I'm guessing it has a lot to do with how tight the fittings have to be to hold the tubing.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Sleeving, no, not messing it up with the fittings, that is another story. I've never done it, but have read some saying it was super hard others said it was easy. I'm guessing it has a lot to do with how tight the fittings have to be to hold the tubing.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Thank you for that info, but I just had a thought about using MDPC-X sleeving over the tubing as I can't stand clear tubing! It must be a pain to sleeve tubing..?


Why don't you have a look at neoprene tubing -ok its only one colour but its a change:

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10487/ex-tub-647/Tygon_A-60-G_Norprene_12_ID_34_OD_-_Industrial_Grade_Thermoplastic_Elastomer_Tubing.html?tl=g30c99s1614

Try feser coloured tubing, or use a few drops of dye in your loop with Durelene clear tubing-trust me it changes the whole look of the tubing.

or

http://www.overclock.net/t/794029/tube-sleeving

This is an old link but the information is still pertinent:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-200137.html


----------



## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Why don't you have a look at neoprene tubing -ok its only one colour but its a change:
> http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10487/ex-tub-647/Tygon_A-60-G_Norprene_12_ID_34_OD_-_Industrial_Grade_Thermoplastic_Elastomer_Tubing.html?tl=g30c99s1614
> Try feser coloured tubing, or use a few drops of dye in your loop with Durelene clear tubing-trust me it changes the whole look of the tuning.
> or
> http://www.overclock.net/t/794029/tube-sleeving
> This is an old link but the information is still pertinent:
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-200137.html


lol i know from experience a single primochill dye bomb will stain just about any tubing...and blocks,,and rez.and hands..and floor...and cat


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> lol i know from experience a single primochill dye bomb will stain just about any tubing...and blocks,,and rez.and hands..and floor...and cat


LOL! a cat too? damn








for cat reason I use only non-toxic and clear water in my loop


----------



## duhjuh

he attacked my half full bottle of concentrated blood red dye bomber..(he is a cappuccino colored cat







)


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> he attacked my half full bottle of concentrated blood red dye bomber..(he is a cappuccino colored cat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


ouch!







poor cat ... yeah, I could have similar trouble, so I stay away from dyes ... or some toxic additives (eg.. automotive coolant mixtures) ... I have an external rad, so even if it leaks some day I don't want to harm my cat friend accidentally...


----------



## Systemlord

I'm just wondering is anybody has seen Primochill's PLASTICIZER RUMOR DEBUNKED!! What do they think we are all that stupid, man why can't manufactures just admit that their product did have a problem? Is it so bad to admit the truth, humans are imperfect by nature yet Primochill is perfection...?

Quote:


> To clarify: PrimoFlex Pro LRT is not defective and has not changed their formulation in the five years of production and is still the best tubing on the market. Production still remains in the United States. 95% of users will not experience an issue with the cloudiness/film. And what about the 5% who are? Well, we want ALL of our customers to be satisfied so we have come up with a couple of solutions.
> 
> Note: The film is purely an aesthetic issue and although ugly we have not found it to be harmful to any of the components. It will however continue to build up over time and this build up may cause performance issues.
> 
> Solution One: Contact PrimoChill to receive a free System Scrubber. This solution will gently clean the inner components of your system and remove the film that is collecting on the tubing.
> 
> Solution Two: Purchase PrimoChill's new PrimoFlex™ Advanced Tubing. This tubing will cover the entire spectrum of system loops and their variable setups and will prevent the film from ever occurring. Estimated Launch Date: Nov 1, 2012
> 
> We are so excited to offer a solution to the watercooling community. We are always inspired that our users share the same passion for watercooling as we do. Again, we thank those who supported us through this issue and continue to aid in the evolution of watercooling.


----------



## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> I'm just wondering is anybody has seen Primochill's PLASTICIZER RUMOR DEBUNKED!! What do they think we are all that stupid, man why can't manufactures just admit that their product did have a problem? Is it so bad to admit the truth, humans are imperfect by nature yet Primochill is perfection...?


well at least they fixed the issue with new tubing and offering the scrubber


----------



## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> ouch!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> poor cat ... yeah, I could have similar trouble, so I stay away from dyes ... or some toxic additives (eg.. automotive coolant mixtures) ... I have an external rad, so even if it leaks some day I don't want to harm my cat friend accidentally...


he was fine lol..just a lil reddish for a while lol he attacked it ..he didnt eat it


----------



## nyk20z3

I just removed all my Primochill UV green tubing after seeing stuff start to build up in my EK spin res.

I have been told a silver killcoil can be causing this issue with primochill tubing or it just speeds up the process. I only had my loop running for maybe 2 months and all my tubing had Plasticizer in it. I started to noticed my res getting a little cloudy plus there was a build up of film forming on the walls and roof of the res. I am going to try some xspc UV green tubing and a pre mixed coolant this time and see what the results are.


----------



## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> I just removed all my Primochill UV green tubing after seeing stuff start to build up in my EK spin res.
> I have been told a silver killcoil can be causing this issue with primochill tubing or it just speeds up the process. I only had my loop running for maybe 2 months and all my tubing had Plasticizer in it. I started to noticed my res getting a little lcoudy plus there was a build up of film forming on the walls and roof of the res. I am going to try some xspc UV green tubing and a pre mixed coolant this time and see what the results are.


yeah thats pretty much what im doing


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> well at least they fixed the issue with new tubing and offering the scrubber


well, we don't know if they fixed that "ugly looking residue eventually causing performance issues" or not, because it will be launched to market in November 2012








it's funny how it seems that only 5% (what do they base this number on?) having issues with Primochill tubing while 95% doesn't ... I'd guess it's the other way around ...


----------



## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> well, we don't know if they fixed that "ugly looking residue eventually causing performance issues" or not, because it will be launched to market on November 2012
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's funny how it seems that only 5% (what do they base this number on?) having issues with Primochill tubing while 95% doesn't ... I'd guess it's the other way around ...


i was referring to the system scrubber(yeah more after the fact fix not a solution)
and lol the 5% is def bs (coming from a primochill guy here)


----------



## Rickles

Quote:


> The film is purely an aesthetic issue and although ugly we have not found it to be harmful to any of the components. It will however continue to build up over time and this build up may cause performance issues


So, they said it was only aesthetic and then the next sentence said it may (I read that as _will_) lead to performance issues....


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rickles*
> 
> So, they said it was only aesthetic and then the next sentence said it may (I read that as _will_) lead to performance issues....


exactly ... and it's funny they say it doesn't harm any other components, because quite recently (after using their system scrubber) I found 2 blue colored snots of 1/4'' diameter inside my Raystorm CPU block (came out when I was flushing the block under tap).


----------



## Rickles

YUCK!!! I am really enjoying durelene, and it is so much cheaper.


----------



## Systemlord

When a manufacture takes responsibility for a product failure, boy do they earn my business and respect, but when they insult my intelligence it disappoints!

There was a thread started (where did it go?) by Mayham where there was testing done in medical sealed glass jars and they simply cut a 4 inch long piece of tubing from every manufacture known to man, anyway to make a long story short, Primochill's tubing overnight had white powder residue all over the inside of the tubing as did other brands just not as bad! Now tell me this, now Primochill knows it's their tubing that's bad and they know that we know, but pretend that we don't know and insult our intelligence! That doesn't make me happy at all.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> well at least they fixed the issue with new tubing and offering the scrubber
> 
> 
> 
> well, we don't know if they fixed that "ugly looking residue eventually causing performance issues" or not, because it will be launched to market in November 2012
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's funny how it seems that only 5% (what do they base this number on?) having issues with Primochill tubing while 95% doesn't ... I'd guess it's the other way around ...
Click to expand...

Thats easy, because they only responded to 5% of the people contacting them about it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rickles*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> The film is purely an aesthetic issue and although ugly we have not found it to be harmful to any of the components. It will however continue to build up over time and this build up may cause performance issues
> 
> 
> 
> So, they said it was only aesthetic and then the next sentence said it may (I read that as _will_) lead to performance issues....
Click to expand...

I guess they forgot to mention that it can cause gunking if dye is used in the system. I still blame my self for leaving my PC on when I knew I was going to be gone for a month.


----------



## hammerforged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rickles*
> 
> YUCK!!! I am really enjoying durelene, and it is so much cheaper.


Just bought 15 feet of this stuff. Gonna rip out the primochill crap next week and see what it looks like. Ill try to report my findings here. Runnign EK premix coolant in the loop with a copper cpu block and nickel gpu block. Gonna just go pure distilled next time and got a nickel cpu block.


----------



## Capt Proton

"To clarify: PrimoFlex Pro LRT is not defective and has not changed their formulation in the five years of production and is still the best tubing on the market. Production still remains in the United States. 95% of users will not experience an issue with the cloudiness/film. And what about the 5% who are? Well, we want ALL of our customers to be satisfied so we have come up with a couple of solutions.

Note: The film is purely an aesthetic issue and although ugly we have not found it to be harmful to any of the components. It will however continue to build up over time and this build up may cause performance issues.

Solution One: Contact PrimoChill to receive a free System Scrubber. This solution will gently clean the inner components of your system and remove the film that is collecting on the tubing.

Solution Two: Purchase PrimoChill's new PrimoFlex™ Advanced Tubing. This tubing will cover the entire spectrum of system loops and their variable setups and will prevent the film from ever occurring. Estimated Launch Date: Nov 1, 2012

We are so excited to offer a solution to the watercooling community. We are always inspired that our users share the same passion for watercooling as we do. Again, we thank those who supported us through this issue and continue to aid in the evolution of watercooling."

What a complete and utter line of Horse Puckey. Primochill must really think their customers have all had frontal lobotomies. If there is no problem, why have solutions?

Well, at least they have remained consistent in their arrogance. They firmly believe that if you deny something long enough, it will go away. If they had stood up from the first and admitted the issue, then the "solutions" would be appreciated as ongoing customer service. Thier approach is simply one of ongoing damage control, done badly and with utter contempt for their customers.

BOYCOTT PRIMOCHILL!!!!


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> "To clarify: PrimoFlex Pro LRT is not defective and has not changed their formulation in the five years of production and is still the best tubing on the market. Production still remains in the United States. 95% of users will not experience an issue with the cloudiness/film. And what about the 5% who are? Well, we want ALL of our customers to be satisfied so we have come up with a couple of solutions.
> Note: The film is purely an aesthetic issue and although ugly we have not found it to be harmful to any of the components. It will however continue to build up over time and this build up may cause performance issues.
> Solution One: Contact PrimoChill to receive a free System Scrubber. This solution will gently clean the inner components of your system and remove the film that is collecting on the tubing.
> Solution Two: Purchase PrimoChill's new PrimoFlex™ Advanced Tubing. This tubing will cover the entire spectrum of system loops and their variable setups and will prevent the film from ever occurring. Estimated Launch Date: Nov 1, 2012
> We are so excited to offer a solution to the watercooling community. We are always inspired that our users share the same passion for watercooling as we do. Again, we thank those who supported us through this issue and continue to aid in the evolution of watercooling."
> What a complete and utter line of Horse Puckey. Primochill must really think their customers have all had frontal lobotomies. If there is no problem, why have solutions?
> Well, at least they have remained consistent in their arrogance. They firmly believe that if you deny something long enough, it will go away. If they had stood up from the first and admitted the issue, then the "solutions" would be appreciated as ongoing customer service. Thier approach is simply one of ongoing damage control, done badly and with utter contempt for their customers.
> BOYCOTT PRIMOCHILL!!!!


Primochill is playing stupid and they know we know but still continue in their denial! I'm going to Primochill webpage where they have asked everyone's input, let's go.


----------



## Systemlord

I just posted a comment on Primochill website since they want our feedback and after I clicked on submit it says,"Your comment is awaiting moderation." I hope Primochill allows free speech with unedited feedback as I was very polite.


----------



## feniks

Primochill lost already and they are going down under ... they must be idiots, sorry.
the guy (Brian) I worked with and who sent me the System Scrubber stopped responding to me after I emailed him back my feedback after using it (I was damn polite like in school) ... they are some bunch of morons or half assed monkeys, all I could truly say about them is against TOS (forgive me). **** Primochill and their ******* dangerous tubing, their PR is led by a chimpanzee and their technologists are refusing to believe they ****ed up at some point. In summary from my own personal point of view, Primochill lost me, Feser won me (while having same flexibility and looks on their tubing). Feser UV active tubing is FTW!
... to hell with Primochill and their Primoflex and Primocrap! they are not even going to help me out after their dangerous tubing (6 weeks old) contaminated my whole loop, if that's so then I say **** you to them. no more comments from me on Primochill.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> I just posted a comment on Primochill website since they want our feedback and after I clicked on submit it says,"Your comment is awaiting moderation." I hope Primochill allows free speech with unedited feedback as I was very polite.


it's funny. I left my comment in Product Support section of their webform and it didn't await moderation. message was very juicy (i'm past polite with them) and I hope they read it. unfortunately I won't be getting a reply.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> ouch!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> poor cat ... yeah, I could have similar trouble, so I stay away from dyes ... or some toxic additives (eg.. automotive coolant mixtures) ... I have an external rad, so even if it leaks some day I don't want to harm my cat friend accidentally...
> 
> 
> 
> he was fine lol..just a lil reddish for a while lol he attacked it ..he didnt eat it
Click to expand...

Cats bathe. He et it, I don't care how well you cleaned him up. He ingested some of it.









Ma is the Crazy Cat lady, so trust me I'm well acquainted with Cats.







lulz

~Ceadder


----------



## kkorky

Wow! i just logged very quickly to scan whats been going on today, and all i will say for now is that i TOTALLY agree with the comments that have been posted in response to their Damage control 'editorial'. i will post a proper response and add my 2 cents worth a bit later on (im busy right now)-i am saying this, NOT because i am some sort of plasticizer Guru, but because i have contributed alot to the info posted here, and more importantly, his e mail to me (posted earlier on in the thread) CLEARLY states that they are aware that their tubing has a problem-this MUST be utilised to debunk that poorly written editorial/junkette and at least arrive at some sort of compensation for us 'mere 5%' (a totally useless figure,such stats are poor at the very best)- My ideas and comments to follow later on.


----------



## skyn3t

Primochill still denied their problems and every time this happen is get more worse. sadly but true.

PS: Durelene and Mayhems is the way to go. any questions jut hit the link in my SiG RiG.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Wow! i just logged very quickly to scan whats been going on today, and all i will say for now is that i TOTALLY agree with the comments that have been posted in response to their Damage control 'editorial'. i will post a proper response and add my 2 cents worth a bit later on (im busy right now)-i am saying this, NOT because i am some sort of plasticizer Guru, but because i have contributed alot to the info posted here, and more importantly, his e mail to me (posted earlier on in the thread) CLEARLY states that they are aware that their tubing has a problem-this MUST be utilised to debunk that poorly written editorial/junkette and at least arrive at some sort of compensation for us 'mere 5%' (a totally useless figure,such stats are poor at the very best)- My ideas and comments to follow later on.


So in his email to you he says they are aware of a problem with their tubing, you should also post on Primochill's *"Truth Next Exit"* editorial! I post on their editorial and my comment has been in (Your comment is awaiting moderation.) for 3 days now!


----------



## nyk20z3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Primochill still denied their problems and every time this happen is get more worse. sadly but true.
> PS: Durelene and Mayhems is the way to go. any questions jut hit the link in my SiG RiG.


If only Durelene made color tubing i would be all over it.


----------



## kj1060

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> Primochill lost already and they are going down under ... they must be idiots, sorry.
> the guy (Brian) I worked with and who sent me the System Scrubber stopped responding to me after I emailed him back my feedback after using it (I was damn polite like in school) ... they are some bunch of morons or half assed monkeys, all I could truly say about them is against TOS (forgive me). **** Primochill and their ******* dangerous tubing, their PR is led by a chimpanzee and their technologists are refusing to believe they ****ed up at some point. In summary from my own personal point of view, Primochill lost me, Feser won me (while having same flexibility and looks on their tubing). Feser UV active tubing is FTW!
> ... to hell with Primochill and their Primoflex and Primocrap! they are not even going to help me out after their dangerous tubing (6 weeks old) contaminated my whole loop, if that's so then I say **** you to them. no more comments from me on Primochill.
> it's funny. I left my comment in Product Support section of their webform and it didn't await moderation. message was very juicy (i'm past polite with them) and I hope they read it. unfortunately I won't be getting a reply.


So no clouding with Feser tubing?


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kj1060*
> 
> So no clouding with Feser tubing?


too early to tell, but I will be disconnecting my loop in a few days for a motherboard swap (crossing over to a different brand), can take a peek inside the tubes and see.


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> So in his email to you he says they are aware of a problem with their tubing, you should also post on Primochill's *"Truth Next Exit"* editorial! I post on their editorial and my comment has been in (Your comment is awaiting moderation.) for 3 days now!


To be fair, your three days does include a weekend.

I was on their site but decided not to comment. First reason is that I do not trust them to publish anything not in their favour, and the other is that they required me to set up an account and provide personal data. Why? In this day and age, provision of any personal data, even the most rudimentary, is a risk. Why would they need it?

So, for all things Primochill, Just Say No.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> To be fair, your three days does include a weekend.
> I was on their site but decided not to comment. First reason is that I do not trust them to publish anything not in their favour, and the other is that they required me to set up an account and provide personal data. Why? In this day and age, provision of any personal data, even the most rudimentary, is a risk. Why would they need it?
> So, for all things Primochill, Just Say No.


All I gave to sing up was my email and user name, the way Primochill carefully chooses words on their editorial I don't expect them to publish my comment the way it was originally typed and if they stoop that low then they must have something to hide! 5% pecent of user's effected my rear-end!


----------



## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Cats bathe. He et it, I don't care how well you cleaned him up. He ingested some of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ma is the Crazy Cat lady, so trust me I'm well acquainted with Cats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lulz
> ~Ceadder


he is just a pycho as before he had a primochill dyebomb spaz attack...









BTW MAJOR UPDATE!!!!!!!
i tore apart and rebuilt my loop this weekend pics incoming after work ..but with *half a bottle* of red dyebomber a silver kill coil distlled water and using primo flex 3/8x5/9th tubing the plasticier wasn't bad at alll!!!!







the tubes sure were stained badly







but there was only a very very very small amount of thin white film after i let it dry out







...so i guess i got a good batch or this problem is blown way out of proportion and dont take that as defending primochills recent actions







..as after all i did switch (back) to xspc uv orange tubing

i did have a an accident were my pump threads stripped out so i hacksawed off half of the pumps inlet to get to the good threads and after much fiddling got a barb on it that sits solid but that pump is getting replaced(it served well in it short time i had it) so if anyone knows some good deals on a ddc or other popular pump(as i want tops/modkits this time) lemme know


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Cats bathe. He et it, I don't care how well you cleaned him up. He ingested some of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ma is the Crazy Cat lady, so trust me I'm well acquainted with Cats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lulz
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he is just a pycho as before he had a primochill dyebomb spaz attack...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW MAJOR UPDATE!!!!!!!
> i tore apart and rebuilt my loop this weekend pics incoming after work ..but with *half a bottle* of red dyebomber a silver kill coil distlled water and using primo flex 3/8x5/9th tubing the plasticier wasn't bad at alll!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the tubes sure were stained badly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but there was only a very very very small amount of thin white film after i let it dry out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...so i guess i got a good batch or this problem is blown way out of proportion and dont take that as defending primochills recent actions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..as after all i did switch (back) to xspc uv orange tubing
> 
> i did have a an accident were my pump threads stripped out so i hacksawed off half of the pumps inlet to get to the good threads and after much fiddling got a barb on it that sits solid but that pump is getting replaced(it served well in it short time i had it) so if anyone knows some good deals on a ddc or other popular pump(as i want tops/modkits this time) lemme know
Click to expand...

How long have you been running it? At 3 months mine was fine, but at 4 months it was horrid. For me and from what I read it sound like once it starts it happens fast.


----------



## duhjuh

about the 3-4 month range


----------



## nyk20z3

My clear Primochill tubing was showing Plasticizer in under a week with mayhems uv green/distilled water/killcoil.


----------



## KaRLiToS

I didn't read through the whole thread, but is there a solution , except durelene. Is there a solution to colored tubing? I have primochill and they get very nasty after a couple of weeks.


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaRLiToS*
> 
> I didn't read through the whole thread, but is there a solution , except durelene. Is there a solution to colored tubing? I have primochill and they get very nasty after a couple of weeks.


As far as I can see, the only 100% solution would be tubing without plasticizer. Failing that, I can only attest to Durelene. Its been in my rig for over a month and, so far, no sign of the clouding. Perhaps Durelene and Mayhem's?


----------



## Hanoverfist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaRLiToS*
> 
> I didn't read through the whole thread, but is there a solution , except durelene. Is there a solution to colored tubing? I have primochill and they get very nasty after a couple of weeks.


Same here. I use primo Black so at least I can't see it . But I know its there. Sigh.. Cleaned One time already but I am curious about Feser brand tubing.


----------



## feniks

drained my water loop yesterday for a motherboard swap. peeked into my Feser Active UV Blue tubing and it's crystal clear, zero problems so far


----------



## bigmac11

Here is a few photos of my Durelene after a few weeks. I'm no photographer so please dont bust my chops.
Old Durelene



Old and new



Was used on a totally flushed and cleaned system. Used Ice Dragon and silver coil.
EDIT should mention I recleaned the whole loop last night and refilled with straight distilled and no silver coil. Installed my last 10' of Durelene. If I can borrow a camera in a few weeks I'll post the results.


----------



## Vrwings

In trying to isolate the components directly affecting the plasticizer film formation, I have looked over the prior tests and loop descriptions and do not recall a discussion about the gas environment for these loops.

Has anyone used a completely air free closed system?

How about other gases like argon as an alternative to displace the oxygen laden air?


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> My clear Primochill tubing was showing Plasticizer in under a week with mayhems uv green/distilled water/killcoil.


Anyone know if there are additives in Mayhems? I don't use the stuff so I've no idea what ingredients they use, but if it contains a biocide the killcoil is overkill considering this is one of the components in PrimoChill LRT. Is it not?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigmac11*
> 
> Here is a few photos of my Durelene after a few weeks. I'm no photographer so please dont bust my chops.
> Old Durelene
> 
> 
> 
> Old and new
> 
> 
> 
> Was used on a totally flushed and cleaned system. Used Ice Dragon and silver coil.
> EDIT should mention I recleaned the whole loop last night and refilled with straight distilled and no silver coil. Installed my last 10' of Durelene. If I can borrow a camera in a few weeks I'll post the results.


Yikees, is that haze from the coolant or is it Plasticizer?









~Ceadder


----------



## corysti

@Ceadderman in the concentrate and the full liters does have multi-metal inhibitors in it...I don't think it has anything to stop plasticizing.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *corysti*
> 
> @Ceadderman in the concentrate and the full liters does have multi-metal inhibitors in it...I don't think it has anything to stop plasticizing.


Stopping plasticizing wasn't my main concern(though would have been a plus), what I'm thinking is that if the coolant you run has a biocide in it and you add a coil into the mix, that it causes the PC tubing to leech the Plasticizer quicker than it would if you ran straight distilled with nothing at all since there is a biocide in the tubing.

Think of it a bit like adding chlorine bleach to your whites. A couple capfuls is great and keeps the whites new looking. Too much and your whites come out looking like someone held them too close to an open fire. Cuffs and neck turn all yellowish brown.









~Ceadder


----------



## nyk20z3

I was using mayhems uv green concentrate + a killcoil so maybe it did cause an accelerated reaction. I had clouding with in 2 days on my Primochill clear tubing and the same with my UV green primochill tubing.

I am going to use a pre mixed coolant this time around with no killcoil and see what happens.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> I was using mayhems uv green concentrate + a killcoil so maybe it did cause an accelerated reaction. I had clouding with in 2 days on my Primochill clear tubing and the same with my UV green primochill tubing.
> 
> I am going to use a pre mixed coolant this time around with no killcoil and see what happens.


Right!







, keep us posted on how things work out.









~Ceadder


----------



## corysti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Right!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , keep us posted on how things work out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Im interested in knowing the results...It's making me think what would really cause the chemical reaction from the mayhem coolant and the kill coil. Would it be the pure silver from the coil?


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *corysti*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Right!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , keep us posted on how things work out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im interested in knowing the results...It's making me think what would really cause the chemical reaction from the mayhem coolant and the kill coil. Would it be the pure silver from the coil?
Click to expand...

Since I don't know the chemical compounds in the Mayhems, I really cannot say. If there is silver in the mix that would probably be the issue. But not knowing doesn't help narrow it down and I doubt any manufacturer is going to freely hand over trade secrets of their product.









~Ceadder


----------



## corysti

I just messaged mayhem on here to ask him basically if he has ever noticed any chemical reaction to his product and a kill-coil and basically asked him if his product contains silver or not and if there would be anything in his product that would react to silver. I bet it something to do with the products used to create the UV for the color.

Your welcome


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

I just got a question about Primochill did anyone try it with just distilled water? no kill coil, ptnuke or dyes. Just asking coz all i can really find in Aus is Primochill


----------



## corysti

You need to use some type of biocide or silver in your loop.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> drained my water loop yesterday for a motherboard swap. peeked into my Feser Active UV Blue tubing and it's crystal clear, zero problems so far


Good for you mate-same with me around 2 months+ 24/7 usage (Feser UV Clear/distilled water/SKC/2 drops extreme, 3 drops blue-both mayhems), not a sign whatsoever. Damn, that durelene that i ordered is gathering dust in a box.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Anyone know if there are additives in Mayhems? I don't use the stuff so I've no idea what ingredients they use, but if it contains a biocide the killcoil is overkill considering this is one of the components in PrimoChill LRT. Is it not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yikees, is that haze from the coolant or is it Plasticizer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Mate i have read more than one post from Dragon ice users, that 'staining' is normal (sorry but its very early in the am, and im not going to look for the links-just google it







)

Dunno if silver is an active ingredient in Primochill LRT -hey! actually yes i do! THERE IS NO ACTIVE INGREDIENT IN LRT, OTHERWISE WE WOULD NOT HAVE THOSE PROBLEMS LOL!









@Mayhems+ SKC, unless you are using Distilled water on its own with Mayhem's dye, using a SKC is not needed- X1,pastel stuff, the liquid nail polish (Aurora







) all have corrosion inhibitors/biocides etc, so you would be correct in saying that a SKC used with them is overkill.

Actually i'm going to pull the trigger on either Pastel UV white, or that Very Berry which is a blue that matches my sleeve job/mobo colours.

I have to do a bit more in-depth research so that i don't order the wrong colour -which reminds me, i have to contact Mick (Mayhems) i haven't spoken to him since he sent me some dyes (red /blue) which i used on my colleague as a payback prank in his coke-*yes people the dyes are that safe-i can vouch for that.
*
I never got to see the results, although staff said it worked a treat -Murphy's law-i was called out on assignment








*
NB:* i promise to post a reply this week to Brian's Editorial & Damage control endeavours (He is the Primochill head honcho)-it just does not add up whatsoever with the e mail he sent me and im not referring only to the stats that have been gleamed from absolutely NO viable data pool-you want to quote % etc, then show me verifiable samples taken from various focus groups/consumer surveys etc-anything else is deemed to be unverifiable, ergo non usable.

Let's not play with stats here please, cause *100%* of us water coolers do not appreciate it!









-those of you that have seen the e mail he sent me will know this, sorry ive been slacking a bit these days -STWOR, and getting ready to offload my 7+ yr of use WOW account(with RL work interspersed inbetween) -sorry but im not mucking about with Pandas and Pokemon pets-im too old for that ****


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> I just got a question about Primochill did anyone try it with just distilled water? no kill coil, ptnuke or dyes. Just asking coz all i can really find in Aus is Primochill


Take this with a large grain of Sodium Chloride because I have White PrimoChill LRT in my loop. It's Opaque and it's white so it might not show as easily.

In any case I do run it with only distilled in my loop. My Res is still as clear as when I cleaned the lime deposits out of it since it was used and the fella rinsed it prior to shipping it. Also my BNIB at purchase HF Supreme v1 Classified block is still clear. Although it is Red. The last time I changed the coolant (about a month and a half ago after 4 months use ) I didn't notice any plasticizer. I did notice the green patina that my Copper block and Radiator left behind but that's it. There was no powdery residue to wipe the green tint off the inside of the tubing.

Prior running this tubing I completely rinsed out the Radiator until there was no particles to be had. Using a hot flush and using a mix of 250ml Vinegar/ 250 Distilled as hot as I could stand it (damn the radiator was smokin hot







) followed by 1000ml of boiling hot distilled and 500ml of cold distilled to render whatever vinegar was left behind inert. Then I thoroughly rinsed the CPU block to make sure there were no particles left behind from the milling, not that I expected there to be but one can never be too careful right?









If I can find the little bit of tubing I have left I can pull the Full Coverage to CPU length and show what it looks like internally later around wednesday. I've got outdoor plumbing work to be doing on Monday an Tuesday so there is no way to do it then, if people are interested in my findings from straight distilled and PC tubing.









~Ceadder


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> I just got a question about Primochill did anyone try it with just distilled water? no kill coil, ptnuke or dyes. Just asking coz all i can really find in Aus is Primochill


Look more carefully mate-there are many good WC stores in your neck of the woods- i discovered this in my lengthy search for an EK HF supreme plexi CPU cooler, i finally found one, but he wont ship to Europe








Im still looking worldwide (even for used blocks), but the search isnt going well, i can get one from Dubai for 144 eu (inc shipping) lol! and one in the Philippines-that as well is ridiculously priced.

http://www.gammods.com.au/store/

http://www.thekoolroom.com/

http://www.au.aquatuning.com/index.php

http://www.jpcomputersolutions.com.au/catalogsearch/result/index/?manufacturer=338&q=tubing (tygon tubing etc)

http://www.techbuy.com.au/searchcat/COOLING_WATER_COOLING_TUBING_AND_CONNECTIONS.asp

Hope this has helped, i know for sure that there are other stores, but i didn't keep their links because they didnt ship outside of Aus


----------



## kkorky

Moderator please delete-double post.

Thanks


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Look more carefully mate-there are many good WC stores in your neck of the woods- i discovered this in my lengthy search for an EK HF supreme plexi CPU cooler, i finally found one, but he wont ship to Europe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im still looking worldwide (even for used blocks), but the search isnt going well, i can get one from Dubai for 144 eu (inc shipping) lol! and one in the Philippines-that as well is ridiculously priced.
> http://www.gammods.com.au/store/
> http://www.thekoolroom.com/
> http://www.au.aquatuning.com/index.php
> http://www.jpcomputersolutions.com.au/catalogsearch/result/index/?manufacturer=338&q=tubing (tygon tubing etc)
> http://www.techbuy.com.au/searchcat/COOLING_WATER_COOLING_TUBING_AND_CONNECTIONS.asp
> Hope this has helped, i know for sure that there are other stores, but i didn't keep their links because they didnt ship outside of Aus


Thanks














ill have a look at them


----------



## bigmac11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Yikees, is that haze from the coolant or is it Plasticizer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


That is what the tubing looked like about 10 hours after I removed it. In the pics what looks like blue dots is actually grey globs of god knows what. All 4 of my blocks were covered in the crap. My EK res is super cloudy after cleaning it for over an hour. I wish I had a camera then to take pics.
I'm running straight distilled with new tubing and a different res and will make sure to report back what happens. I swear I'm getting ready to go back to air. I want to enjoy my pc not wrench on it every few weeks. Taking apart 3 Koolance 470 blocks isn't fun


----------



## Mayhem

We don't use silver in X1, pastel, Aurora only in silver kill coils. We noticed as well in our report that silver does speed up discoloration of certain types of tubing and we don't actually know why.


----------



## NewHighScore

What is a good recommended tubing to use with Mayhems Pastel? Sorry for asking guys I don't want to read the whole thread.


----------



## Mayhem

I prefer to use clearflex 60, its cheap it works and it does the job just fine. How ever All tubing that contains plasticizer leaches especially at 30 to 35c.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mayhem*
> 
> I prefer to use clearflex 60, its cheap it works and it does the job just fine. How ever All tubing that contains plasticizer leaches especially at 30 to 35c.


THanks! Great they sell it at aquatuning my favourite shop.


----------



## corysti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mayhem*
> 
> We don't use silver in X1, pastel, Aurora only in silver kill coils. We noticed as well in our report that silver does speed up discoloration of certain types of tubing and we don't actually know why.


That's what we were wondering thanks man


----------



## kkorky

LOL- your'e welcome-i linked these queries for mick to see









Lets see how the humour meters are running tonight.....................................


----------



## Mayhem

Ive spoken to primochill rep tonight and hes said that the pastel hasn't changed in colour on there tubes. so im gonna ask if we could maybe get a sample some time and check for our self. I know we did see the same on the older tubing how ever its pretty hard to track down who has the latests versions and who has old stock. The problem with all of this is there is so many different types of equipment from loads of different rads, lots of different blocks all of them incorporating different techniques in manufacturing. Then you have users on top of that, did they rise there systems properly, have they used some corrosive substance and not cleaned it out afterwards ect Its one total minefield.

It got to a point were i just stopped testing tubing as there are just to many variables to take into account that is was a total micky take and would be impossible to really find out what is causing the issues.


----------



## feniks

I also suspected that silver kill coil screwed up my primochill tubing much faster than normally it would go bad on its own ... anyways now running feser uv blue tubing with distilled water and a coil and so far it's been crystal clear for 3 weeks.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mayhem*
> 
> I prefer to use clearflex 60, its cheap it works and it does the job just fine. How ever All tubing that contains plasticizer leaches especially at *30 to 35c*.


Am I wrong in assuming this is the point at where the plasticizer starts to leach from the tubing?









~Ceadder


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ill have a look at them


You're welcome?


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> I also suspected that silver kill coil screwed up my primochill tubing much faster than normally it would go bad on its own ... anyways now running feser uv blue tubing with distilled water and a coil and so far it's been crystal clear for 3 weeks.


Whilst i *MAY* admit to silver causing galvanizing in certain loops when mixed with different metals-the only variable, inc usage/temps etc in my system was the tubing-the old feser tubing i had in a box (ordered but never used) was meant to be used as an interim solution till my Durelene arrived-as i said before, Durelene arrived, Feser still crystal clear after 2 months +. Durelene takes Feser's place in storage until needed









So the Primochill tubing was the weak link-as i said, the only change was the tubing, and the Feser has remained clear, whilst two different types of Primochill that i previously used clouded etc, in less than 2 months.

That having been said, when the new Primochill tubing comes out, i will get some and test it-if its substandard, i shall shoot it down, if it works well, i will sing its praises-no witch hunts here, just after good quality products.

I shall also order that cheap tubing that mick suggested and use it with his X1 or Pastel coolant(haven't decided which one as yet)-just to see whats what.


----------



## mybadomen

My Primochill PrimoFlex Pro LRT don't look like a week link to me







still looks the same after months also:

I did have Problems once with many different brand tubing including Primochill till i realized it was user error on my own part.I was using distilled with biocide containing copper sulphate. Since i stopped never another issue and i only use PrimoFlex Pro LRT™ Tubing in all my builds past to present. So 1 time i made a mistake and besides that the stuff has been the best i found.You will aslo it see the same tubing used in my future 2 builds that will be completed shorty.

My suggestion is if your having problems go over your whole loop and find the cause because i don't care what tubing you use you can have the same issue or get lucky and have the right combination and have no issues at all. Out of many many builds i have done i have only had 1 issue with tubing and it had nothing to do with a brand tubing.

I know this thread will just keep lopping over and over with just blame thrown here and there at different manufacturer of the month but honestly its time to find the problem in your own specific loops and ignore all this. I did and finally success after wasting months reading this thread and getting no where.

Just my opinion wish you guys the best of luck. But if you have an issue with your loop don't just keep buying every brand tubing to try and mask the problem. Its not going to go away that way .You have to find the specific issue with your own loop because they are all different and anything can cause it.


*
Take Care Guys*
*
MybadOmen*


----------



## Simplynicko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> My Primochill PrimoFlex Pro LRT don't look like a week link to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> still looks the same after months also:
> I did have Problems once with many different brand tubing including Primochill till i realized it was user error on my own part.I was using distilled with biocide containing copper sulphate. Since i stopped never another issue and i only use PrimoFlex Pro LRT™ Tubing in all my builds past to present. So 1 time i made a mistake and besides that the stuff has been the best i found.You will aslo it see the same tubing used in my future 2 builds that will be completed shorty.
> My suggestion is if your having problems go over your whole loop and find the cause because i don't care what tubing you use you can have the same issue or get lucky and have the right combination and have no issues at all. Out of many many builds i have done i have only had 1 issue with tubing and it had nothing to do with a brand tubing.
> I know this thread will just keep lopping over and over with just blame thrown here and there at different manufacturer of the month but honestly its time to find the problem in your own specific loops and ignore all this. I did and finally success after wasting months reading this thread and getting no where.
> Just my opinion wish you guys the best of luck. But if you have an issue with your loop don't just keep buying every brand tubing to try and mask the problem. Its not going to go away that way .You have to find the specific issue with your own loop because they are all different and anything can cause it.
> 
> *
> Take Care Guys*
> *
> MybadOmen*


just because you have a fancy build doesn't make your observation legitimate. tubing is obviously the issue on many of these builds, especially some that i have seen that have all-copper components.


----------



## Hanoverfist

here is a pic of my Cpu loop res. cleaned the tubing 1 month ago. Primochill black. This loop is Distilled and 1 kill coil.



Here is my Gpu loop res with one month of use. Distilled only. Primochill black. has not been cleaned. So by this, Using a killcoil or not had no affect either way.. its still Leaching.


----------



## nyk20z3

Just picked up the ingredients that Ceadderman suggested so i can clean the Plasticizer out of my Swift maelstrom res -


----------



## nyk20z3

I flushed the res a few times but unless i open the res which i can't there is no way to get this crap out. I emailed Swifttech about replacing the plexi housing so hopefully they can make that happen.


----------



## nyk20z3

Might be hard to tell in this pic but its all over the front face of the res and the sides -


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simplynicko*
> 
> just because you have a fancy build doesn't make your observation legitimate. tubing is obviously the issue on many of these builds, especially some that i have seen that have all-copper components.


Not helpful. All have their own situations to report. Notice he said "just my opinion", which is all most of us can really contribute, as few of us actually conduct organized testing which results in reproducible data. We all need to present information that is identified as fact (with proof), opinion or own experience. We all then read the different information and draw our own conclusions. The only thing that should not be allowed to stand is erroneous information presented as fact with no substantiation or real support, especially if it can cause damage. Unfortunately, this happens way too often and many people still believe everything they read.

In my opinion.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simplynicko*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> My Primochill PrimoFlex Pro LRT don't look like a week link to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> still looks the same after months also:
> I did have Problems once with many different brand tubing including Primochill till i realized it was user error on my own part.I was using distilled with biocide containing copper sulphate. Since i stopped never another issue and i only use PrimoFlex Pro LRT™ Tubing in all my builds past to present. So 1 time i made a mistake and besides that the stuff has been the best i found.You will aslo it see the same tubing used in my future 2 builds that will be completed shorty.
> My suggestion is if your having problems go over your whole loop and find the cause because i don't care what tubing you use you can have the same issue or get lucky and have the right combination and have no issues at all. Out of many many builds i have done i have only had 1 issue with tubing and it had nothing to do with a brand tubing.
> I know this thread will just keep lopping over and over with just blame thrown here and there at different manufacturer of the month but honestly its time to find the problem in your own specific loops and ignore all this. I did and finally success after wasting months reading this thread and getting no where.
> Just my opinion wish you guys the best of luck. But if you have an issue with your loop don't just keep buying every brand tubing to try and mask the problem. Its not going to go away that way .You have to find the specific issue with your own loop because they are all different and anything can cause it.
> 
> *
> Take Care Guys*
> *
> MybadOmen*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just because you have a fancy build doesn't make your observation legitimate. tubing is obviously the issue on many of these builds, especially some that i have seen that have all-copper components.
Click to expand...

Well I have to agree with MBO, it is something in our loops not playing nice with the tubing. In my tests I used the same tubing running just a res and pump and never got any problems, but my rig had major problems. The pump even created enough heat for the water to be hotter in that little loop than my PC. I even put a fan to blow on the res because I was worried about the pump burning up. The real problem is something has changed,
1. Something with the way the tubing is made and it no longer is playing nice in a lot of peoples rigs
or
2. Something in our hardware has changed and this tubing isn't liking it for what ever reason.

Now if companies have started using a different chemical to clean their parts before shipping because laws say they have to use more eco friendly stuff and that chemical is having a bad reaction to the tubing, is that the tubing's fault? The same could be said about the tubing. I have worked in a plastic factory and we used this spray stuff to keep the parts from sticking to the molds, now if the company that makes the tubing has changed does the same thing and has changed brands or has to use some thing new because the old stuff isn't legal to use anymore the formula hasn't changed but the process has, this is something much harder to track down if you do not make it your self. Most tubing brand names do not make the tubing them selves, even Tygon doesn't make their own tubing, they just tell a factory what to use to make it.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Random question from a friend who wants to do water cooling as well he asked do people clean the tubes before there used? incase it is something from the production and not the recipe


----------



## Hanoverfist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Random question from a friend who wants to do water cooling as well he asked do people clean the tubes before there used? incase it is something from the production and not the recipe


All I did is flush the tubing with distilled after i had cut each piece. And it still did this


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hanoverfist*
> 
> All I did is flush the tubing with distilled after i had cut each piece. And it still did this


 wow i didnt expect that


----------



## hammerforged

Heres my contribution to this thread. Found this ***** last night when breaking my loop down. Only 2 months old. Black Primochill Pro LRT with EK clear premix coolant.

Enjoy:


----------



## rdr09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammerforged*
> 
> Heres my contribution to this thread. Found this ***** last night when breaking my loop down. Only 2 months old. Black Primochill Pro LRT with EK clear premix coolant.
> Enjoy:


i think the tube reacted with the coolant you used. i just replaced my primo pro (red) that i used for the same amount of time with dw and didn't see any trace of that stuff. i saved them for future use as a matter of fact.


----------



## JohnnyEars

Has anyone tried silicon hose? (as used in custom car cooling) 1/2" ID silicon automotive hose is really cheap and available in all colours - and is obviously very flexible.


----------



## siffonen

I`m going to change my loop a little, i`ll get a new tubes, but problem is what to get. My local store has a limited amount of tubes, and choises are: Tygon R3400, Primochill Primoflex Pro and Masterkleer.
I`ll get black or white tubes, but which one is best choise looking at Plasticizer problems? t


----------



## nyk20z3

Just ordered 12' of Feser Acid Green tubing and there Pre mixed Acid Green coolant so let's see how this turns out.

I will not add a silvercoil or any other additive but give me a few weeks to report back.


----------



## feniks

It seems to me that silver kill coil accelerates plasticizers leeching in Primochill's Primoflex (and similar super flexible) tubing ... but only when used in real life, meaning when water temperature reaches over 30C - that's when the super quick leeching occurs. other stuff playing some role is the "dirt" in rads (they come with it from factory). actually my RX240 rad had some whitish "chalk" in it before I flushed it with vinegar.

Also Mayhems confirmed a few pages back that he/they observed most or plasticizer leeching problems occur fastest at 30-35C.

The only really disturbing thing here is that Primoflex can build up that whitish residue even when submerged in a bucket of distilled water over night. that's all it needs to get ugly ... someone posted something like that many pages back.


----------



## bamaland

so, im currently build a rig and going w/c, i need to use 3/8ID but also need it to be 5/8OD (as my rad is 1/2ID with compression so i need the extra thickness) but what tubing should i be using to avoid these problems?


----------



## nyk20z3

I know its hard to tell but i got most of the Plasticizer out of my Swifttech res so i am happy about that since i was told by Swifttech they will not sell the plexi housing separate -


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> My Primochill PrimoFlex Pro LRT don't look like a week link to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> still looks the same after months also:
> I did have Problems once with many different brand tubing including Primochill till i realized it was user error on my own part.I was using distilled with biocide containing copper sulphate. Since i stopped never another issue and i only use PrimoFlex Pro LRT™ Tubing in all my builds past to present. So 1 time i made a mistake and besides that the stuff has been the best i found.You will aslo it see the same tubing used in my future 2 builds that will be completed shorty.
> My suggestion is if your having problems go over your whole loop and find the cause because i don't care what tubing you use you can have the same issue or get lucky and have the right combination and have no issues at all. Out of many many builds i have done i have only had 1 issue with tubing and it had nothing to do with a brand tubing.
> I know this thread will just keep lopping over and over with just blame thrown here and there at different manufacturer of the month but honestly its time to find the problem in your own specific loops and ignore all this. I did and finally success after wasting months reading this thread and getting no where.
> Just my opinion wish you guys the best of luck. But if you have an issue with your loop don't just keep buying every brand tubing to try and mask the problem. Its not going to go away that way .You have to find the specific issue with your own loop because they are all different and anything can cause it.
> 
> *
> Take Care Guys*
> *
> MybadOmen*


1) realising that it was error on your part, does not mean that the same applies to others.
2)Why does this sound so much like a put up job coming from the voice of a sponsored rig builder-(hey Brian)
3) why are you completely discounting the common variable that exists for hundreds of users*-Primochill tubing*.
4)You, semi insult fellow people in this thread with masked finger pointing, thats unacceptable, ok so in your opinion blah blah blah, why have you discounted so many other posters opinions? (and whilst you may not have come out and said so directly, one can read between the lines







)
5) Using the Phrase 'it just my opinion' etc etc does not absolve you from the pseudo arrogant tone in which your post was written, there are many many people who have changed from Primochill *WHILST USING ALL THE SAME ITEMS/SET UPS/VARIABLES ETC-THAT HAVE FOUND SUCCESS*-dont they count? (rhetorical question)
6) and im sorry but- basic law of consumerism, 'if a product does not suit me or seems to be substandard, then *I WILL CHANGE THE PRODUCT*'-far too many manufacturers nowadays want to pass the buck onto the consumer-our rights are slowly being eroded, and if we dare complain, we are deemed to be trouble makers-to h*ll with that!
*
And finally, all of what i have posted above, is to quote " just my opinion"







*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Simplynicko*
> 
> just because you have a fancy build doesn't make your observation legitimate. tubing is obviously the issue on many of these builds, especially some that i have seen that have all-copper components.


Nothing to do with his quote: 'fancy rig', good for him, it looks good, and more power to him, i think that in this case, its how his ideas/opinion were delivered, as opposed to what was said. (its not what you say, but the way that you say it)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> Not helpful. All have their own situations to report. Notice he said "just my opinion", which is all most of us can really contribute, as few of us actually conduct organized testing which results in reproducible data. We all need to present information that is identified as fact (with proof), opinion or own experience. We all then read the different information and draw our own conclusions. The only thing that should not be allowed to stand is erroneous information presented as fact with no substantiation or real support, especially if it can cause damage. Unfortunately, this happens way too often and many people still believe everything they read.
> In my opinion.


Amen brother!
But in this case many people have presented photographic proof, logs etc-our Primochill fan, has presented hearsay (granted its hard to prove that your loop isnt clouding up-think outside the box







)

*@Mybadabdomen*
I would stick my head on a block and dare to say, that most people when initially encountering deposits in their tubes, do a thorough 'internal recon mission' within their rigs, looking for the cause, tubing is low on the initial totem pole.

Rad flux,metal mixing, flaking blocks, SKC/PT nuke usage etc etc.

Your post was equally unhelpful in that it basically discarded Primochill LRT as one of the variables-as i said before, 'Its not what you say........., added to the fact that "IMO" does not always absolve a poster from critisism.

Final point (since all the other posts in this thread with 'proof' etc have been ignored)-Read:

This was posted before in this thread-our friend *maybe should have had a look before he posted 'his opinion' because in my opinion his opinion discards all the hard work done by others in the search for a solution.*

E-mail to me from Primochill Head Honcho:

"Hello K,
Sorry for the late reply been a little crazy with the holiday and short work week.
We are sorry that you are having issues with our tubing. *I can assure you that we are aware of the situation and have been working to get it resolved as quickly as possible*. We have looked at your post and have a couple simple questions.

Can you tell us all of the components that you used when you had this problem? Fluid, Radiators, Pumps, Fitting etc.
Can you tell us how quickly the "white film" showed up?

Since your tubing is all sliced up, the "scrubber" will not work as intended. But it might up clean up the blocks and other components in the system, if soaking them is an option.

Please let us know what you would like us to you, so we can make sure that your are taking care of and the opinion you might have about PrimoChill is not weighing on you.

Again sorry for the delay, in getting back to you.

Regards,
Brian "

*Why try to resolve something that is working fine?*

In the interest of fairness, read my prior post vis a vis how i plan to give Primochill another chance, when their 'new' tubing comes out in November-i hope that it works.

*I WOULD NEVER TAKE ANYTHING THAT A SPONSORED RIG BUILDER SAYS AS BEING THE GODS HONEST TRUTH* -like he is going to say that his sponsored products have faults or can be faulty









*Again, just my opinion







*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superericla*
> 
> ^TLDR^
> (skimmed a bit)
> Anyhow, Primochill may have changed the tubing some time recently and may no longer have problems. It would have to be tested with a batch known to be very recent (not back-stock).


Thats the problem as well-TLDR? One cannot properly comment unless they read the whole passage that has been posted at any given time.

Primochill may have changed?? I don't think so, if you follow this thread you will see that Brian recently posted a damage control piece-i am 100% sure, that if he had some new batch out that has been proven to work, he would have made this information accessible to the WC public -Whereas his product has some problems at the moment, i do not think that he is so naive as to not announce a newer batch of working Primochill.

*UPDATE*

http://www.overclock.net/t/915966/please-read-before-purchasing-ek-nickel-plated-blocks-update-revised-plating-info/1390

Here is a similarly, thinly veiled attempt by Mybadomen to cover another of his sponsors-to make matters worse, it actually in the EK nickel thread-as i said before-*DO NOT TAKE THE WORD OF SPONSORED RIG BUILLDERS AS THE TRUTH-THEY ARE OBLIGED TO DEFEND THEIR SPONSORS-THEIR OPINION CAN NEVER TRULY BE OBJECTIVE* read the forums and get a better overall view ,


----------



## superericla

^TLDR^
(skimmed a bit)

Anyhow, Primochill may have changed the tubing some time recently and may no longer have problems. It would have to be tested with a batch known to be very recent (not back-stock).


----------



## Capt Proton

kkorky I won't disagree or argue against anything in your well constructed post. I do agree with the majority of your statements, and do not support mybadomen. My main issue is to, as much as possible, keep this site from getting anywhere near the depository for unfounded, over the top criticisms as found at RRR's site, which specializes in using discussions to cover unabashed unwarranted ridicule, foul language and bullying.

I appreciate the time you took to present your arguments clearly and concisely.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> kkorky I won't disagree or argue against anything in your well constructed post. I do agree with the majority of your statements, and do not support mybadomen. My main issue is to, as much as possible, keep this site from getting anywhere near the depository for unfounded, over the top criticisms as found at RRR's site, which specializes in using discussions to cover unabashed unwarranted ridicule, foul language and bullying.
> I appreciate the time you took to present your arguments clearly and concisely.


Thank you-two things:

I think that i should have edited it a bit better, (have a look now-i have re edited it), it looked like a large chunk was directed at you-that is not the case, my apologies









I am not doing this to be some martyr nor to gain 'brownie' points, its as you said, keeping this thread/site a place where people can come to gain facts and actually learn as i did, when i started visiting here 1yr+ ago. I just had to set the record straight, and not allow comments like his to pass unanswered.

My apologies again if you thought that the brunt was directed at yourself mate.

*BTW*: Over the last year i have come to 'know' by following their threads, many posters, they seem to be genuinely informed/helpful people, not full of false bravado that hiding behind a pc lends itself to-my point, i cannot ever foresee this forum stooping to the level of other offensive/ignorant forums.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> I know its hard to tell but i got most of the Plasticizer out of my Swifttech res so i am happy about that since i was told by Swifttech they will not sell the plexi housing separate -


That's looks pretty sharp nyk20z3. It may take some more rinse/shake and flush but overall what did you think? I know it doesn't help that you can't seperate anything more than the faceplate so I'm hoping that it was just a case of seeing it through.









It really worked for me but I'm able to separate the caps from mine and was able to run a bottle brush through it. After seeing your issue I doubt I'll ever buy a one piece Reservoir in the future.









~Ceadder


----------



## bamaland

guess my question got bypassed








whats everyone using now? feser anti-kink?


----------



## RKTGX95

i know it sounds like a stupid question, but what is the average liquid temp on the typical OCN loop with OCed CPU and/or GPU? (since 30-35C is the reason for leeching)


----------



## siffonen

Decided to go to my local shop that sells almost everythin made from plastic and rubber, got a 3 meter pvc tube just only 1.50€








Much cheaper than tygon and primochill, but very stiff to work with. I`ll report in few weeks that how bad is plasticizer with these tubes, if there is any


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *siffonen*
> 
> Decided to go to my local shop that sells almost everythin made from plastic and rubber, got a 3 meter pvc tube just only 1.50€
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Much cheaper than tygon and primochill, but very stiff to work with. I`ll report in few weeks that how bad is plasticizer with these tubes, if there is any


Plastic and rubber shop-kinky!!!


----------



## siffonen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Plastic and rubber shop-kinky!!!


Not that kind of a shop


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bamaland*
> 
> guess my question got bypassed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whats everyone using now? feser anti-kink?


Durelene seems to be holding up pretty good, it about as flexible as Primo, and super cheap.
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/othertubing.html


----------



## nyk20z3

Here is 2 examples of the Plasticizer issues i had with Primochill tubing -

Clear -










UV Green -










It will come right off when wiped but this is def unacceptable!


----------



## RKTGX95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RKTGX95*
> 
> i know it sounds like a stupid question, but what is the average liquid temp on the typical loop with OCed CPU and/or GPU/s? (since 30-35C is the reason for leeching)


anyone? answer? (please)


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RKTGX95*
> 
> anyone? answer? (please)


There are so many different variables to that question it is hard to answer.


----------



## nyk20z3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RKTGX95*
> 
> i know it sounds like a stupid question, but what is the average liquid temp on the typical OCN loop with OCed CPU and/or GPU? (since 30-35C is the reason for leeching)


I would assume -

30C/35C idle

I was dropping to the mid 20's if i had my ac on and the comp was not being used for a while.

But most loops on OCN are of high quality so those idle temps should be some what accurate.


----------



## RKTGX95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> There are so many different variables to that question it is hard to answer.


true, but a rough average is possible to guess no?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> I would assume -
> 30C/35C idle
> I was dropping to the mid 20's if i had my ac on and the comp was not being used for a while.
> But most loops on OCN are of high quality so those idle temps should be some what accurate.


well, if the 30-35C is average at idle and plasticizer is at the strongest at 30-35C. (scary thoughts are going trough my head now)


----------



## nleksan

I am wondering if it is only the regular PTNuke that is the problem, and if PTNuke PHN would be safe to run? I have Primoflex LRT Pro White 1/2x3/4, and I made extra effort to ensure that there is an absolute minimum of mixed metals in my loop. No nickel plating on anything, in fact it's all copper blocks + the brass that's in the EX420 and (to a much smaller degree) the Alphacool NEXXOS UT60 240. I tried the best I could to absolutely minimize the factors that might contributeto plasticizer leaching,


----------



## nyk20z3

I just posted those numbers from my personal experience and what i have seen here on OCN and other sites.

The way i see it is if we use a tubing that is plasticizer free then we should have nothing to worry about regardless of temps.

Durelene has proven to be plasticizer free.

I will be using Feser UV green tubing next week so i can hopefully add that tubing to the plasticizer free list as well.


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> I am wondering if it is only the regular PTNuke that is the problem, and if PTNuke PHN would be safe to run? I have Primoflex LRT Pro White 1/2x3/4, and I made extra effort to ensure that there is an absolute minimum of mixed metals in my loop. No nickel plating on anything, in fact it's all copper blocks + the brass that's in the EX420 and (to a much smaller degree) the Alphacool NEXXOS UT60 240. I tried the best I could to absolutely minimize the factors that might contributeto plasticizer leaching,


what are your fittings made of? Mine are nickel barbs or compressions (I use both types) as far I know ... I also have copper blocks (Raystorm + Razor), and 2x XSPC rads (RX240 + EX360), I used a silver kill coil with pure distilled water and several dozen pages back in this thread you can find pictures of how my Primochill LRT PRO UV Blue tubing looked like after 6 weeks.
Primochill is not worth wasting my time ever again. Feser seems to be working for me perfectly fine (and looks exactly same).


----------



## JohnnyEars

I've just been looking at the Koolance website at a pump, and it says at the bottom of the page about fluids:

Liquid Coolants

Koolance's product warranty does not cover the use of 3rd-party coolants, coolant additives, or corrosion. Koolance LIQ-702 or LIQ-705 coolants are strongly recommended to help avoid issues with mixed metals or biological growth. Additionally, do not use aluminum with bare (unplated) copper or bare (unplated) brass in the same system. *Do not use silver with nickel in the same system*.

I thought the distilled way was to use silver coil..


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bamaland*
> 
> guess my question got bypassed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whats everyone using now? feser anti-kink?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bamaland*
> 
> guess my question got bypassed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whats everyone using now? feser anti-kink?
> 
> 
> 
> Durelene seems to be holding up pretty good, it about as flexible as Primo, and super cheap.
> http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/othertubing.html
Click to expand...

This, and the Feser is supposed to be good too from what I've read here occasionally. But I'm running without Silver Killcoil in my LRT and no additives. Just straight distilled.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RKTGX95*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RKTGX95*
> 
> i know it sounds like a stupid question, but what is the average liquid temp on the typical loop with OCed CPU and/or GPU/s? (since 30-35C is the reason for leeching)
> 
> 
> 
> anyone? answer? (please)
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RKTGX95*
> 
> anyone? answer? (please)
> 
> 
> 
> There are so many different variables to that question it is hard to answer.
Click to expand...

This. I think if I ran a loop on an Intel CPU, I'd be out of my mind unless my CPU was lapped. 30-35c is probably a reasonable average at Idle for many water coolers. My system runs ~40c at Load.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JohnnyEars*
> 
> I've just been looking at the Koolance website at a pump, and it says at the bottom of the page about fluids:
> 
> Liquid Coolants
> 
> Koolance's product warranty does not cover the use of 3rd-party coolants, coolant additives, or corrosion. Koolance LIQ-702 or LIQ-705 coolants are strongly recommended to help avoid issues with mixed metals or biological growth. Additionally, do not use aluminum with bare (unplated) copper or bare (unplated) brass in the same system. *Do not use silver with nickel in the same system*.
> 
> I thought the distilled way was to use silver coil..


I think they were having issues in the past and they say it was caused by Killcoil. There's was not on the same scale of Fail as EK's but they weren't as widely used as EK either. At least not until EK's customer service caused a mass exodus.









~Ceadder


----------



## RKTGX95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> This, and the Feser is supposed to be good too from what I've read here occasionally. But I'm running without Silver Killcoil in my LRT and no additives. Just straight distilled.


aren't you afraid of growth / bacteria?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> This. I think if I ran a loop on an Intel CPU, I'd be out of my mind unless my CPU was lapped. 30-35c is probably a reasonable average at Idle for many water coolers. My system runs ~40c at Load.


well, then i guess its okay. (btw, i plan oing on clearflex 60 if i'll use dye or MasterKleer if i'll use colored tubing)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I think they were having issues in the past and they say it was caused by Killcoil. There's was not on the same scale of Fail as EK's but they weren't as widely used as EK either. At least not until EK's customer service caused a mass exodus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


i think that they just don't want to take any chances with the kill coil fiasco, so its safer to just stay away from it.


----------



## Ceadderman

My system doesn't sustain much if any Sunlight. The blinds let in just enough light to see without the lights being on while not allowing enough for photo synthesis to occur. Also the tubing is solid in color so basically the only heat entering the system is the heat that is generated from the pump and the blocks. Also PrimoChill LRT is infused with an AntiMicrobial. So no, I'm not worried at all.









I'm hoping this keeps the system from leeching by not running killcoil or any other additives. I do have mixed metals but it's copper, nickel and brass. So I shouldn't have a problem in that regard either.









~Ceadder


----------



## Capt Proton

Water temp 30 - 35 at idle? Wow, does that ever make me feel good. My water temp (measured by Phobya in line temp ring) is around 5-6 C higher than ambient at idle, increases to 7-8 C higher than ambient under load (Prime 95 or 3D Mark 11)


----------



## Ceadderman

My outside temp is 23c, indoor temp is 22c and my current Load is 39c at 3/4 fan speed...

Just cranked up the gas on the fans...

My Load temp... only went down 2c in 5minutes but I know it'll come down some more. My Idle temp is generally below 30c. But I'm rarely at Idle since I Fold.







lol

~Ceadder


----------



## shremi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RKTGX95*
> 
> i know it sounds like a stupid question, but what is the average liquid temp on the typical OCN loop with OCed CPU and/or GPU? (since 30-35C is the reason for leeching)


I really don't know if my readings are accurate from what i have read on this thread but my temps go from 30-32 on load and 25-27 on idle.

BTW i am using this part on my reservoir connected to my fan controler temp sensor...


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shremi*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RKTGX95*
> 
> i know it sounds like a stupid question, but what is the average liquid temp on the typical OCN loop with OCed CPU and/or GPU? (since 30-35C is the reason for leeching)
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't know if my readings are accurate from what i have read on this thread but my temps go from 30-32 on load and 25-27 on idle.
> 
> BTW i am using this part on my reservoir connected to my fan controler temp sensor...
Click to expand...

I'm not a big fan of cap sensors. They probably do pretty well but my problem is that having them installed either limits the flow somewhat or if you don't have it directly within the actual loop itself the readings can be off slightly. For my own piece of mind I'd rather run ring probe fittings within the loop taking/reporting accurate readings without reducing the flow of coolant in any way. I'll be installing 3 of them on my loop to give me the temps for ...

Radiator Out.
Pump to Full Coverage In.
Full Coverage Out.

So that I get a clear and accurate picture of the base temp prior to pump and full coverage and an accurate picture of what the temperature difference is from the Mainboard coolant prior to entering CPU chamber. Although my PC Probe software only allows for two Optional readings. I'll have to get a LCD display and mod it into the top 5.25 grill to display Radiator out however.









Apologies for derailing the topic, just think of this as a Free bump for the thread.









~Ceadder


----------



## Creator

Add me the list of those effected. All I used in my loop (XSPC RX360 kit) was a kill coil and distilled. And not even two weeks in my my tubes are really yellowing. I'm going to drain this tomorrow, and order some new tubing...


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creator*
> 
> Add me the list of those effected. All I used in my loop (XSPC RX360 kit) was a kill coil and distilled. And not even two weeks in my my tubes are really yellowing. I'm going to drain this tomorrow, and order some new tubing...


Was it the stock tubing with the kit or Primo?


----------



## Creator

Stock tubing. It's quite bad now...

9/15/2012 - Leak Testing


TODAY 9/28/2012 - Looks awful!!


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creator*
> 
> Stock tubing. It's quite bad now...
> 9/15/2012 - Leak Testing
> 
> TODAY 9/28/2012 - Looks awful!!


kinda looks like someone pissed in it


----------



## Creator

Those were my thoughts exactly... Anyway I'm taking it apart when I get home later, and will use a spare H60 I laying around in this system for the mean-time. The new tubing and etc will take some time to get here so it'll all be getting rinsed for a few days. I wanted to get black tubing, but I don't know... if I had something like that (and this was happening) I probably wouldn't even have known right now.


----------



## GoodInk

Yeah the stock tubing in those kits are garbage.


----------



## Hanoverfist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> kinda looks like someone pissed in it
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Your right about that...


----------



## Creator

I just pulled some water from the res via a syringe, and it's clean. The PH was also tested to be 6-7 using one of those basic test strips. So this pretty much confirms it's just my tubing right now. But looking through this thread, it looks like others are having problems much worse than just discoloration, so I'm not sure what to buy now...


----------



## Capt Proton

Durelen, durelene. Sing it with me now.


----------



## wot

Feser 13/19 UV clear - distilled, frozencpu "IandH Dead-Water" and "IandH Silver KillCoils"
June 21, 2012
September 29, 2012


----------



## Ceadderman

The more I see the more I am convinced that Kill Coil is not good for the system.

Now it may just be that since pretty much everyone uses Killcoil that Killcoil seems to be the common dynamic. But I can't help feeling this way. Regardless of tubing that is having the issue with Distilled or with Coolants, there is a Killcoil in the loop. I think PrimoChill tubing just shows it quicker due to being impregnated with a BioCide.

I don't know about Duralene but it seems to not show it as quickly if at all. But that could be due to containing little if any plasticizer in the list of materials.









~Ceadder


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

I thought id chime in about the Killcoil or any silver in a loop i was talking to a guy a lastnight about it and he said he had nonstop problems with silver in his loop but once he took it out and just used distilled and ptnuke or liquid utopia he didnt have anywhere near as many problems and he said out of all the tubing yes primochill will go bad the fastest but without the silver it takes a few weeks to months with the silver it only took days to hours. just my


----------



## Creator

Well I went ahead and ordered some durelene clear tubing. I also ordered some PT Nuke. I think I'll be trying that out next.

... I never expecting tubing to be a science.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creator*
> 
> Well I went ahead and ordered some durelene clear tubing. I also ordered some PT Nuke. I think I'll be trying that out next.
> 
> ... I never expecting tubing to be a science.


Life is a Science. Tubing is Life.









~Ceadder


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> The more I see the more I am convinced that Kill Coil is not good for the system.
> 
> Now it may just be that since pretty much everyone uses Killcoil that Killcoil seems to be the common dynamic. But I can't help feeling this way. Regardless of tubing that is having the issue with Distilled or with Coolants, there is a Killcoil in the loop. I think PrimoChill tubing just shows it quicker due to being impregnated with a BioCide.
> 
> I don't know about Duralene but it seems to not show it as quickly if at all. But that could be due to containing little if any plasticizer in the list of materials.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


I'm thinking its the BioCide we are seeing, plasticizer from what I have seen in the past the tubes turn cloudy to yellow to brown. This just keeps getting more and more cloudy and starts to chunk up if left long enough.


----------



## Metaldude

I'll have to upload some pics later but I wanted to go ahead and divulge my most recent info. Previously(buried in this thread somewhere) I had bad leeching on some DD Dreamflex with distilled/killcoil. I swapped that out for Tygon Noprene and EK Clear coolant. Ran it about 6 months before moving into a new case and man that stuff works beautifully. Not one visible speck of corrosion in the blocks, no leeching, just clean through and through.

I am now using Primochill UV blue with the EK coolant, we'll see how things look in a few months.


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creator*
> 
> Stock tubing. It's quite bad now...
> 9/15/2012 - Leak Testing
> 
> TODAY 9/28/2012 - Looks awful!!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Yeah the stock tubing in those kits are garbage.


That is exactly how my stock XSPC clear tubing looked like in 2 weeks of use ... it's garbage, get some Feser or Duralene tubing and be done with it


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

I could see why silver might make galvanic corrosion happen a little faster but I don't see how it could effect tubing. That seems like a stretch.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BababooeyHTJ*
> 
> I could see why silver might make galvanic corrosion happen a little faster but I don't see how it could effect tubing. That seems like a stretch.


What i was told was its nothing to do with the tubing (except maybe primochill if it is really plasticizer) its all the silver having the water flow over it makes it break down quick and or if its not 100% pure high quality silver it may be bring out the copper and crap in it.


----------



## Creator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> That is exactly how my stock XSPC clear tubing looked like in 2 weeks of use ... it's garbage, get some Feser or Duralene tubing and be done with it


I assume your new tubes were okay? Did you have to clean your radiator and blocks out?


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creator*
> 
> I assume your new tubes were okay? Did you have to clean your radiator and blocks out?


I flushed radiator only with warm vinegar and then lots of water, discarded old tubing and back then went with primochill just to discover a new problem down the road 6 weeks later ... now running feser, so far so good after a month.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Creator*
> 
> I assume your new tubes were okay? Did you have to clean your radiator and blocks out?
> 
> 
> 
> I flushed radiator only with warm vinegar and then lots of water, discarded old tubing and back then went with primochill just to discover a new problem down the road 6 weeks later ... now running feser, so far so good after a month.
Click to expand...

What problem did you discover? Spill man, spill.









~Ceadder


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> What problem did you discover? Spill man, spill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


same as nearly everybody else







some white powder residue on inner side of primochill tubing walls
I posted it with pics around page 135 of this thread I think, not sure got lost long ago


----------



## kcuestag

Can someone explain me what exactly is the plasticizer problem?

I've been into water cooling for just 3-4 months, recently changed all tubing on my loop as I added the GPU's to the loop, and I'd like to know what that is so I can be aware.


----------



## siffonen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kcuestag*
> 
> Can someone explain me what exactly is the plasticizer problem?
> I've been into water cooling for just 3-4 months, recently changed all tubing on my loop as I added the GPU's to the loop, and I'd like to know what that is so I can be aware.


Check post #2 there is a good picture of plasticizer problem, it is the white stuff of inside the tube
http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery#post_16177272


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kcuestag*
> 
> Can someone explain me what exactly is the plasticizer problem?
> 
> I've been into water cooling for just 3-4 months, recently changed all tubing on my loop as I added the GPU's to the loop, and I'd like to know what that is so I can be aware.


In a nut shell plasticizer is what they put in tubing to make it more flexible, but it also comes out of the tubing over time.


----------



## Vrwings

Here is a list of suspected variables. Add onto it as you like.

Tubing:
Brand; Model; Color; DOM; Age before Install; Age during install; Sterility; Duration of exposure to open atmosphere; Permeability by gases;

Temp:
Atmospheric Temp; Startup Temp; Average Working Temp; Max Temp; Duration of Max Temp; Temp variation in loop; Rate of Temp Variation

Coolant:
Brand; Model; Color; DOM; Age before install; Age during Install; Sterility; Duration of exposure to open atmosphere; duration no motion; duration in motion; flow rate; coolant loss; rate of loss; make up volume; Makeup frequency; duration loop open to atmosphere during refill; Sterility of makeup fluid;

Atmosphere:
Gas composition of normal open atmosphere; altitude; relative humidity; Closed Loop Atmosphere Gases; Venting; Filtration

Biocide:
Brand; Model; Component chemicals and quantities; placement in loop; maintenance interval; Volume in loop; % of coolant by volume and mass; sterility; DOM; Age before Install; Age during install; Sterility; Duration of exposure to open atmosphere

Additives:
Brand; Model; chemical composition; quantities as % by volume and mass; Color; DOM; Age before Install; Age during install; Sterility; Duration of exposure to open atmosphere;

Metals in loop:
Radiator components; CPU and GPU Block components; Fittings; Pumps; Filter materials;

Observed Contaminants and Corrosion:
Description in standardized terms against standards; sample collection; sterility of collection and storage of samples; time preceding, during and following observed contaminants; rate of growth or accumulation of contaminants; Availability of secure samples for lab testing and analysis;

Qualitative Standardized Description of system setup, testing, measurements, sample collection and processing;

Time, Temp recordings by component throughout the observation period using standardized procedures

Record photographs of systems and components testing conditions and results.

Assure Open public access to data and analysis to promote repeatability and peer review.

Ok, this should be a start...









After this list we can create a standardized form with much of the info made numeric and database accessible for comparative analysis.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vrwings*
> 
> Here is a list of suspected variables. Add onto it as you like.
> Tubing:
> Brand; Model; Color; DOM; Age before Install; Age during install; Sterility; Duration of exposure to open atmosphere; Permeability by gases;
> Temp:
> Atmospheric Temp; Startup Temp; Average Working Temp; Max Temp; Duration of Max Temp; Temp variation in loop; Rate of Temp Variation
> Coolant:
> Brand; Model; Color; DOM; Age before install; Age during Install; Sterility; Duration of exposure to open atmosphere; duration no motion; duration in motion; flow rate; coolant loss; rate of loss; make up volume; Makeup frequency; duration loop open to atmosphere during refill; Sterility of makeup fluid;
> Atmosphere:
> Gas composition of normal open atmosphere; altitude; relative humidity; Closed Loop Atmosphere Gases; Venting; Filtration
> Biocide:
> Brand; Model; Component chemicals and quantities; placement in loop; maintenance interval; Volume in loop; % of coolant by volume and mass; sterility; DOM; Age before Install; Age during install; Sterility; Duration of exposure to open atmosphere
> Additives:
> Brand; Model; chemical composition; quantities as % by volume and mass; Color; DOM; Age before Install; Age during install; Sterility; Duration of exposure to open atmosphere;
> Metals in loop:
> Radiator components; CPU and GPU Block components; Fittings; Pumps; Filter materials;
> Observed Contaminants and Corrosion:
> Description in standardized terms against standards; sample collection; sterility of collection and storage of samples; time preceding, during and following observed contaminants; rate of growth or accumulation of contaminants; Availability of secure samples for lab testing and analysis;
> Qualitative Standardized Description of system setup, testing, measurements, sample collection and processing;
> Time, Temp recordings by component throughout the observation period using standardized procedures
> Record photographs of systems and components testing conditions and results.
> Assure Open public access to data and analysis to promote repeatability and peer review.
> Ok, this should be a start...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After this list we can create a standardized form with much of the info made numeric and database accessible for comparative analysis.


Well out of all that i think we could all agree on if you can get pretty much all the same kinds of metals for your loop ie all nickle or copper or whatever that'll cut that down







.

As for the rest... have fun with that guys


----------



## Vrwings

Lighting: Watts; Brand; Type: LED's,:UV; IR; Grow lamps near...


----------



## kkorky

*UPDATE:*

I promised to post pictures and give feedback once i stripped down my rig and changed the tubing, after the last fiasco with Primochill.

2 months ago i removed my Blue Primochill UV LRT tubing and those of you that read my prior post, saw the ridiculous amount of plasticizer in them. I ordered some Durelene, and as an interim solution, i used some old Feser UV clear tubing i had stashed away in my storeroom, till the Durelene arrived.

I just stripped the rig again last night (2 months later) and what follows are pictures.

The Feser tubing is 13/10 mm, i used WFI (water for injections-NOT SALINE-its of a purer quality than top grade distilled water),silver kill coil,2 drops Mayhem's extreme biocide & two drops of Mayhem's blue dye.

The blocks and the tubing were much clearer than the previous venture that used Primochill (and yes i mean after a two month time frame).

There was some some staining of the Feser tubing, but that is 100% normal-*ALL DYES STAIN TUBING*. There was also some miniscule staining in my blocks, but nothing to write home about.

*
GPU WATERBLOCK:*



*CPU WATERBLOCK:*- it had just a bit of crap in the fins, but thats to be expected after running my rig 24/7 for two months, and under load for at least 6 hrs per day.



Tubing: I have to be fair and say, that apart from the obvious staining, there *were* traces of plasticizer-*BUT NOT ON THE SAME SCALE AS PRIMOCHILL* (the blue tubing is a piece of the old primochill that i had kept for personal reference purposes,the difference is self evident). The Feser tubes look greenish/brown as a direct side effect of the dye-the insides are clearly cleaner than the primochill tubing.



This is *NOT* conclusive proof of anything, but merely my experience & contribution to help solve our tubing problems.
This post just provides a few more variables and their results-i am still hoping to try out the new Primochill tubing in November, and i hope that i get similar positive results with it









I am now going to be testing Mayhems UV white pastel with Clearflex 60 clear tubing(as suggested by Mick from Mayhem's), this will remove the silver kill coil as a variant-i am very interested in seeing what the outcome will be.


----------



## cltitus

I have been running primochill di water and red tubing and when i had to change a radiator because of a small leak I noticed a crap ton of this built up. I didn't change tubing but, I am building a complete new watercooling loop with new pumps rads and everything for my 800D


----------



## Willi

someone please get a sample of the gunk and send it to a cromatography analysis. Determining the composition of it might help deduce the source: If it's the tubing, the fluid, the additive, killcoils, mixed metals in the loop, etc.

I'm no chemist, but I do know that, if you analyse the composition of something in detail, you can deduce by it's basic chemical components how it was formed/obtained.
At least that was the approach that gave the veredict on the EK flaking issue back then (a chemist trying to get to the bottom of the issue).

oh, and please stop throwing blame around. We all know that some rigs represents our e-pen0r, pride or however we call it, but throwing blame around withou any scientific/conclusive basis to do so won't solve the problem, won't open the manufacturer's eyes to a possible issue and won't help the other end-users looking for a quality product for their rigs.

BTW, I just got 5 feet of primochill tubing and then I stumbled on this thread. I'm worried, yes, but I want PROOF that I just wasted my money or not, and if I did, I might go bananas and start using stainless stell braided tubing or actual aeroquip hoses...


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Willi*
> 
> someone please get a sample of the gunk and send it to a cromatography analysis. Determining the composition of it might help deduce the source: If it's the tubing, the fluid, the additive, killcoils, mixed metals in the loop, etc.
> I'm no chemist, but I do know that, if you analyse the composition of something in detail, you can deduce by it's basic chemical components how it was formed/obtained.
> At least that was the approach that gave the veredict on the EK flaking issue back then (a chemist trying to get to the bottom of the issue).


well, I can assure you it's the tubing itself, because in 2-3 weeks it was already visible (from new tubing installation), now running a different new tubing and zero problems in a month while ALL components are exactly same and I do use a silver kill coil and have copper+brass+nickel+chrome in the loop.
does it really matter what the substance is? just stay away from poor quality tubing (or ex-quality tubing which is bad nowadays like Primochill Primoflex is).

I still should have a piece of tainted primoflex tubing in the drawer, can mail it out to somebody for testing if interested.


----------



## Willi

that would be nice, at least we could be sure once and for all about what the hell is that white gunk (that's the curious bastard in me asking questions).

As for the tubing, I might test the primochill suff and see what happens. I don't use a killcoil in my loop and I can get ultrapure water easily at the lab, maybe it'll work. If not, then f*ck this *****, I'm going with stainless steel tubing or something


----------



## feniks

^LOL! I hear ya man, would like to know for certain too, but am no chemist.

stainless steel tubing, eh? kinda stiff a bit if you ask me he he









Feser UV active is working fine for me now. if you like clear then go with Duralene, lots of people likes it and no complaints so far.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Willi*
> 
> someone please get a sample of the gunk and send it to a cromatography analysis. Determining the composition of it might help deduce the source: If it's the tubing, the fluid, the additive, killcoils, mixed metals in the loop, etc.
> 
> I'm no chemist, but I do know that, if you analyse the composition of something in detail, you can deduce by it's basic chemical components how it was formed/obtained.
> At least that was the approach that gave the veredict on the EK flaking issue back then (a chemist trying to get to the bottom of the issue).
> 
> oh, and please stop throwing blame around. We all know that some rigs represents our e-pen0r, pride or however we call it, but throwing blame around withou any scientific/conclusive basis to do so won't solve the problem, won't open the manufacturer's eyes to a possible issue and won't help the other end-users looking for a quality product for their rigs.
> 
> BTW, I just got 5 feet of primochill tubing and then I stumbled on this thread. I'm worried, yes, but I want PROOF that I just wasted my money or not, and if I did, I might go bananas and start using stainless stell braided tubing or actual aeroquip hoses...


Want proof, use the tubing, you might luck out you might not. Some takes longer than others to start, mine took about 3 months to start then over a months time it went fast.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> well, I can assure you it's the tubing itself, because in 2-3 weeks it was already visible (from new tubing installation), now running a different new tubing and zero problems in a month while ALL components are exactly same and I do use a silver kill coil and have copper+brass+nickel+chrome in the loop.
> does it really matter what the substance is? just stay away from poor quality tubing (or ex-quality tubing which is bad nowadays like Primochill Primoflex is).
> I still should have a piece of tainted primoflex tubing in the drawer, can mail it out to somebody for testing if interested.


Same here-just PM me your address and ill send you a small piece(in fact i can also send a piece of Feser tubing so there may be some sort of comparison), but i will want verification/proof of where it will be tested, for obvious reasons







no time wasters please.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Willi*
> 
> someone please get a sample of the gunk and send it to a cromatography analysis. Determining the composition of it might help deduce the source: If it's the tubing, the fluid, the additive, killcoils, mixed metals in the loop, etc.
> I'm no chemist, but I do know that, if you analyse the composition of something in detail, you can deduce by it's basic chemical components how it was formed/obtained.
> At least that was the approach that gave the veredict on the EK flaking issue back then (a chemist trying to get to the bottom of the issue).
> oh, and please stop throwing blame around. We all know that some rigs represents our e-pen0r, pride or however we call it, but throwing blame around withou any scientific/conclusive basis to do so won't solve the problem, won't open the manufacturer's eyes to a possible issue and won't help the other end-users looking for a quality product for their rigs.
> BTW, I just got 5 feet of primochill tubing and then I stumbled on this thread. I'm worried, yes, but I want PROOF that I just wasted my money or not, and if I did, I might go bananas and start using stainless stell braided tubing or actual aeroquip hoses...


Look in this thread some where about a month ago or more, and you will see a copy of the letter from Promochill saying that they are aware of the problem their tubing has-what more proof do you need vis a vis Primochill tubing-nvm their damage control post afterwards.


----------



## Vrwings

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Willi*
> 
> that would be nice, at least we could be sure once and for all about what the hell is that white gunk (that's the curious bastard in me asking questions).
> As for the tubing, I might test the primochill suff and see what happens. I don't use a killcoil in my loop and I can get ultrapure water easily at the lab, maybe it'll work. If not, then f*ck this *****, I'm going with stainless steel tubing or something


Better with copper tubing, as long as your going "all the way" with same metals in the loop. copper and stainless is still an adventure


----------



## Willi

just kidding about the metal thing... but yeah, Duralene is the way then. I just got my tubing a month ago, I'm just praying it won't gunk up from just ultrapure water, otherwiser I'll get the Duralene.
about copper tubing, I would only go for that if the intented result was something like this:

That would probably solve any and every possible issue of gunk-forming in the loop


----------



## Simplynicko

what fittings do they use with copper tubing?


----------



## Lee17

I think they use Swagelok brand fitting.


----------



## Socks keep you warm

All i want to know is since i'm using Primochill tubing right now, will this affect temps?
What is the worse that can happen?
Is there a way to stop this?


----------



## Lee17

Will this affect temps?
Over time, yes. if you have plasticiser building up in your block

What is the worse that can happen?
Overheat, less flow, harder on the pump, bad looking.

Is there a way to stop this?
Primochill is offering a "Scrubber". I don't know if it is safe for copper / nickel / acrylic / etc.
You can find some cheap Durelene tubing who seem to have less plasticiser leak.

Hope I help .


----------



## KaRLiToS

@ Lee17, what is the "Scrubber"? Looks interesting.


----------



## Lee17

Some people on this thread have contact promchill about the issue and receive that "Scrubber".

You can look here (I think it is a good post to learn about)

In my own opinions, I won't consider the scrubber because we don't know what are the effect on other components and we don't know what is in that solution.

Lee17


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaRLiToS*
> 
> @ Lee17, what is the "Scrubber"? Looks interesting.


I fully agree with @Lee17 about the scrubber!
I am about to use Sysclean[=http://specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/SysClean-Watercooling-High-Power-Limescale-Remover--Cleaning-Fluid--50ml-pid-5741.html][/], that seems to do the same job with the scrubber BUT...
a. it is very strong and i will use it only for my MORA3 rad in 1:10 ratio
b. I will use baking soda afterwards (as Mick from Mayhems and the guys from specialtech recommend) to neutralize (pH-wise) the rad

I would not use neither primochill scruber nor the sysclean to clean my entire loop with all these metals, nickel, brass, copper, chrome etc...


----------



## Vrwings

Just Google "steampunk water cooling" Images.


----------



## DiGiCiDAL

If it was already mentioned here I might have missed it - certainly possible after going through over 1500 posts in one sitting...

Plasticizer Rumor Debunked

Naturally, after finally picking up some Black LRT for my system, and then stumbling upon this thread (after receiving it, of course)... imagine my relief at seeing this.

... And then imagine that relief dissolving like so much anti-microbial in water once I actually read it... no actual evidence, images, etc... just a vague reference to doing significant research on different loop components. Apparently 'debunking' isn't what it used to be back in 'my day' - which wasn't all that long ago I thought.

So although there's no problem, and never has been with their tubing... they've got two solutions to the problem anyway. And one of them is A NEW KIND OF TUBING... due out next month. More interesting to me, since the rest is largely conjecture on their part, is that they make clear assurances that the manufacturing process, materials, etc... have not changed at all during the past 5 years.

I might have missed it, but has someone that had problem with new production runs of tube ever try some from an old batch? Or as importantly, would someone that is currently running an old batch with no problems whatsoever, be willing to swap out a new batch to confirm if there is a difference? Just curious... I'll probably be running something different just to be safe (after all... wasting $25 worth of tubing to potentially save $800 worth of everything else seems like a no brainer).


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiGiCiDAL*
> 
> If it was already mentioned here I might have missed it - certainly possible after going through over 1500 posts in one sitting...
> Plasticizer Rumor Debunked
> Naturally, after finally picking up some Black LRT for my system, and then stumbling upon this thread (after receiving it, of course)... imagine my relief at seeing this.
> ... And then imagine that relief dissolving like so much anti-microbial in water once I actually read it... no actual evidence, images, etc... just a vague reference to doing significant research on different loop components. Apparently 'debunking' isn't what it used to be back in 'my day' - which wasn't all that long ago I thought.
> So although there's no problem, and never has been with their tubing... they've got two solutions to the problem anyway. And one of them is A NEW KIND OF TUBING... due out next month. More interesting to me, since the rest is largely conjecture on their part, is that they make clear assurances that the manufacturing process, materials, etc... have not changed at all during the past 5 years.
> I might have missed it, but has someone that had problem with new production runs of tube ever try some from an old batch? Or as importantly, would someone that is currently running an old batch with no problems whatsoever, be willing to swap out a new batch to confirm if there is a difference? Just curious... I'll probably be running something different just to be safe (after all... wasting $25 worth of tubing to potentially save $800 worth of everything else seems like a no brainer).


LOL, yeah, we've been through that so called debunking ... no problem! and yet 2 solutions to non-existent problem touching less than 5% of customers (but how if there was no problem in first place?) ... and a new model of tubing to fix issues ... that never existed LOL! Primochill takes us surely for half-brained idiots... stay away from the brand if you love your precious loop components ... I am yet about to open my Raystorm CPU block for tooth brush scrubbing, but hopefully it's clean after numerous flushes (including their Scrubber which loosened 2 small blobs of blue gel in it, later on flushed out under hot tap water) ... Primochill is as good for me as as they never existed. what company are we talking about, again? Primo-what? never heard of them, but oh wait, I think that's the company that released that ugly bad cheap & dangerous tubing and lied to customers for over a year about it and everybody stopped buying their tubing, so they peacefully went bankrupt.


----------



## DiGiCiDAL

Just looked at your sig rig (R3C0NF1GUR3D)... nearly identical to what I've picked up to put in this build (with the exception of GPU - but that was a budgetary choice mostly as I already had one of the 7970's I'm putting in it). Very nice.


----------



## PapaSmurf6768

Yeah OK Primochill... If they think anyone is going to buy that they are dead wrong. "There's nothing wrong with our tubing, but if you think something was wrong just buy our new stuff!" Absolute garbage...
This is what my Blue LRT looks like after a month:









And now they want me to buy more Primochill junk? I don't know about you but they've completely lost my business. Having a defective product is one thing, but not admitting that there is a problem and even saying that they KNOW there is not a problem without providing any evidence whatsoever is BS.


----------



## feniks

thank you and likewise








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiGiCiDAL*
> 
> Just looked at your sig rig (R3C0NF1GUR3D)... nearly identical to what I've picked up to put in this build (with the exception of GPU - but that was a budgetary choice mostly as I already had one of the 7970's I'm putting in it). Very nice.


----------



## DiGiCiDAL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PapaSmurf6768*
> 
> Yeah OK Primochill... If they think anyone is going to buy that they are dead wrong. "There's nothing wrong with our tubing, but if you think something was wrong just buy our new stuff!" Absolute garbage...
> 
> And now they want me to buy more Primochill junk? I don't know about you but they've completely lost my business. Having a defective product is one thing, but not admitting that there is a problem and even saying that they KNOW there is not a problem without providing any evidence whatsoever is BS.


I completely agree... I guess in that sense I'm lucky - they just missed out on getting my business... or at least any more of it. If I can't return/exchange the tubing I purchased I'll just have to ebay it and/or write it off. Better to regret the purchase than regret not making a better decision later on when I'm spending hours cleaning gunk out of my blocks - especially since this will be my first custom loop build... there's enough variables and conflicting information regarding KC's, additives, components, etc. Don't feel the need to willingly add another question mark to the process.









Just wish I'd have found this thread a little earlier... but to be fair I considered the tubing to be of so little importance that I only really did in-depth research on the rads, res, blocks, and fittings... thought there wasn't a reason to bother researching tubing.


----------



## duhjuh

http://www.overclock.net/a/make-a-suction-syphon-bottle-to-aid-in-drianing-your-loop
a use for all that primochill tubing left over


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/a/make-a-suction-syphon-bottle-to-aid-in-drianing-your-loop
> a use for all that primochill tubing left over


LOL, or just go to KMart and buy a turkey baster.
http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_011W706870110001P?sid=KDx01192011x000001&srccode=cii_17588969&cpncode=31-39352609-2


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PapaSmurf6768*
> 
> Yeah OK Primochill... If they think anyone is going to buy that they are dead wrong. "There's nothing wrong with our tubing, but if you think something was wrong just buy our new stuff!" Absolute garbage...
> This is what my Blue LRT looks like after a month:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now they want me to buy more Primochill junk? I don't know about you but they've completely lost my business. Having a defective product is one thing, but not admitting that there is a problem and even saying that they KNOW there is not a problem without providing any evidence whatsoever is BS.


Seems to me that I have seen this bit of logic used in the past and it worked out so well for EK that they lost a good portion of their Dedicated customer base. I'm not going to blame it all one PrimoChill but their logic is flawed. Especially when they've sent "Scrubber" to a few/couple of PC owners in this thread. Why did/are they sending the stuff to their customers if there is no problem?









~Ceadder


----------



## feniks

LOL at drain pumps







I actually tried 2 and unless I loosen one of fittings upstream there is no force in hell to vacuum the water out ... and I tried strong automotive (hand operated) vacuum pumps








now I usually wrap paper towels around one of my cpu block fittings and loosen it a bit to allow air in and then most of water flows out like crazy at bottom drain, otherwise I can drain only reservoir and GPU by opening the drain port (and res fill port of course) ... that being said, I actually suspect some clog in my cpu block, so I will be opening it up soon for inspection.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiGiCiDAL*
> 
> If it was already mentioned here I might have missed it - certainly possible after going through over 1500 posts in one sitting...
> Plasticizer Rumor Debunked
> Naturally, after finally picking up some Black LRT for my system, and then stumbling upon this thread (after receiving it, of course)... imagine my relief at seeing this.
> ... And then imagine that relief dissolving like so much anti-microbial in water once I actually read it... no actual evidence, images, etc... just a vague reference to doing significant research on different loop components. Apparently 'debunking' isn't what it used to be back in 'my day' - which wasn't all that long ago I thought.
> So although there's no problem, and never has been with their tubing... they've got two solutions to the problem anyway. And one of them is A NEW KIND OF TUBING... due out next month. More interesting to me, since the rest is largely conjecture on their part, is that they make clear assurances that the manufacturing process, materials, etc... have not changed at all during the past 5 years.
> I might have missed it, but has someone that had problem with new production runs of tube ever try some from an old batch? Or as importantly, would someone that is currently running an old batch with no problems whatsoever, be willing to swap out a new batch to confirm if there is a difference? Just curious... I'll probably be running something different just to be safe (after all... wasting $25 worth of tubing to potentially save $800 worth of everything else seems like a no brainer).


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> LOL, yeah, we've been through that so called debunking ... no problem! and yet 2 solutions to non-existent problem touching less than 5% of customers (but how if there was no problem in first place?) ... and a new model of tubing to fix issues ... that never existed LOL! Primochill takes us surely for half-brained idiots... stay away from the brand if you love your precious loop components ... I am yet about to open my Raystorm CPU block for tooth brush scrubbing, but hopefully it's clean after numerous flushes (including their Scrubber which loosened 2 small blobs of blue gel in it, later on flushed out under hot tap water) ... Primochill is as good for me as as they never existed. what company are we talking about, again? Primo-what? never heard of them, but oh wait, I think that's the company that released that ugly bad cheap & dangerous tubing and lied to customers for over a year about it and everybody stopped buying their tubing, so they peacefully went bankrupt.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PapaSmurf6768*
> 
> Yeah OK Primochill... If they think anyone is going to buy that they are dead wrong. "There's nothing wrong with our tubing, but if you think something was wrong just buy our new stuff!" Absolute garbage...
> This is what my Blue LRT looks like after a month:
> 
> And now they want me to buy more Primochill junk? I don't know about you but they've completely lost my business. Having a defective product is one thing, but not admitting that there is a problem and even saying that they KNOW there is not a problem without providing any evidence whatsoever is BS.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Seems to me that I have seen this bit of logic used in the past and it worked out so well for EK that they lost a good portion of their Dedicated customer base. I'm not going to blame it all one PrimoChill but their logic is flawed. Especially when they've sent "Scrubber" to a few/couple of PC owners in this thread. Why did/are they sending the stuff to their customers if there is no problem?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


As a fellow member of the mere 5% (*heavy sarcasm*) of customers who are currently dissatisfied with primochill's products, and their blatant INSULT of a damage control job (*change your marketing staff Primochill-that piece had more holes in it than swiss cheese lol)*, i am glad that the koolade has not been consumed, and i hope that Brian over at Primochill has a read of this thread :http://www.overclock.net/t/915966/please-read-before-purchasing-ek-nickel-plated-blocks-update-revised-plating-info.

*'Those that do not read or learn history are doomed to repeat it'*

No one is trying to do a hatchet job on Primochill. we just want a proper working product and a little bit of respect, instead of taking us for mono celled organisms-sending that 'paid for' sponsored rig builder to spout baseless BS was also a stupid move, EK tried that as well with the same rig builder, see how far that got them. Imagine selling your integrity for a few pieces of hose and some WC gear, how sad.

Keep the feedback and info coming people, its the only way that the consumer can fight back nowadays


----------



## squick3n

Gosh darn I'm in the 5% too







Though I haven't used Primchill is a long while


----------



## Systemlord

If Primochill admitted to a defect in their tubing customers would be insisting on reimbursement or replacement in the form of their newer advanced tubing coming out in November, Primochill would loose financially! If Primochill releases the new advanced tubing and has another issue, then they will be Doomed and no one would trust them again! That's why I believe that Primochill got it right this time, otherwise it will be an epic failure.


----------



## Capt Proton

Primochill knows that we, the customers as a whole, will believe anything if we decide a particular product is what we want based on hype, not research. They know that this whole business will fade away, and they shall continue to sell their product regardless of the crap customer service, unwillingness to admit fault, bold faced lying and disregard for the effects their (and others) faulty products may cause.
At the end of the day, the percentage of people that are participating in this thread or even aware of the issue is very small, and their sales probably will not suffer to any degree that matters. Lets face it, customer service exists only to boost sales and profits. If it is not perceived to do that, it will not be a priority for the company. The end result is the type of customer service (abysmal) we get from Asian companies who rely on sheer volume and the sheep mentality, not customer satisfaction.


----------



## ElGreco

From my point of view, Primochill tries to revert a failure to a succesfull promotion of their new product. There are many reasons, they would not be able to admit publicly their problem and taking into consideration that every major watercooling shop sales primochill stuff to many people and that only a small part of them are following this forum or even have sent an email to PC directly, then yes, PC can also justify the only 5% they refer to! Eventhough, unofficially everybody knows that this is not the correct number..

Now, taking into consideration the abscence of alternatives, if their new product is ok, then they will even have huge profits out of this story.

We will see how it goes... and i just hope that at least they have found a solution that will keep our multi-hundred euros of equipment safe.


----------



## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> LOL, or just go to KMart and buy a turkey baster.
> http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_011W706870110001P?sid=KDx01192011x000001&srccode=cii_17588969&cpncode=31-39352609-2


but i didnt write how to use the turkey baster...and hey im trying to reuse old parts here... besides what if your kmarts on fire..then what?lmao


----------



## Willi

Well... sounds like I'm one of the 5% too XD
****.. the problem in replacing the tubing is that I'm looking at at least 40USD worth of shipping PLUS possible customs taxation, and the only store shipping to south america is Performance PC's (that's brazil for you).
I've been using a 1/2id crystal tubing that felt pretty hard and almost impossible to kink, but it kind of hardened with the loop curves and now the tubing is absolutely impossible to reshape. Feels like there isn't a single gram of plasticizer in that thing, so hard it is.
I wanted to change that because my pump is one noisy bastard and the fittings are all barbs, also because the tubing isn't the best for this.

I decided to go with an XSPC dual bay res + MCP655 and 3/8id 1/2od tubing with a bit more fittings (all compression) and elbows to keep the tube from kinking, and the black Primochill LRT tubing seemed like a good idea, but now I regret the decision...
I still want black tubing on my loop, does anyone know a good brand that wont fill my loop with gunk?

Oh, and I already bought the fittings too >.>


----------



## nyk20z3

They def lost my business from this point on.

I am very happy with my Feser tubing so far!


----------



## DiGiCiDAL

I hear ya Willi... although I'm fortunate to be local (to the US I mean) so it will only cost me as much for the new tubing as it's apparently going to cost you in shipping! Aren't there any local sources for tubing there in Brazil. I know you guys have an economy that's actually expanding and industrializing so I would think there would be something in the way of beverage-class plastic tubing in the size you require. Since some of the people on here have used some of the really cheap stuff from Home Depot in their rigs and claimed great results there might be something similar down there you could get. I'd call your local bottling/beverage company (Coke,Pepsi,Breweries,Bars) - I know you've got those down there!









Hell, the way things are going here in the states... we'll probably have to be buying our stuff from your country soon.









As far as the black is concerned... I'm in the same boat, but I'm now planning on sleeving my tubing so it won't matter if I can only find it in clear or white (or if it's black but it has printing on the side). Since you're going with compression fittings now I would think it would work - don't know if you like the look or not - I think it looks great though YMMV.


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> They def lost my business from this point on.
> I am very happy with my Feser tubing so far!


+1
zero problems with Feser so far!


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Willi*
> 
> Well... sounds like I'm one of the 5% too XD
> ****.. the problem in replacing the tubing is that I'm looking at at least 40USD worth of shipping PLUS possible customs taxation, and the only store shipping to south america is Performance PC's (that's brazil for you).
> I've been using a 1/2id crystal tubing that felt pretty hard and almost impossible to kink, but it kind of hardened with the loop curves and now the tubing is absolutely impossible to reshape. Feels like there isn't a single gram of plasticizer in that thing, so hard it is.
> I wanted to change that because my pump is one noisy bastard and the fittings are all barbs, also because the tubing isn't the best for this.
> I decided to go with an XSPC dual bay res + MCP655 and 3/8id 1/2od tubing with a bit more fittings (all compression) and elbows to keep the tube from kinking, and the black Primochill LRT tubing seemed like a good idea, but now I regret the decision...
> I still want black tubing on my loop, does anyone know a good brand that wont fill my loop with gunk?
> Oh, and I already bought the fittings too >.>


To avoid customs fees mate, contact the retailer that is sending you the tubing, and request that they put gift on the customs form, and also a lower monetary value (just under the amount you are allowed in Brazil)-i do this for all my WC gear that i buy outside of the EEC/EU, it works fine, ive bought Oakleys from Australia lol, tubing/QDS from the States, cables from Hong Kong etc.
Just try what i have said, and you'll be good.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> They def lost my business from this point on.
> I am very happy with my Feser tubing so far!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> +1
> zero problems with Feser so far!


As i said a few months ago, when i suggested the Feser tubing, its ok tubing (not the best, its kinks too easily, and is a bit stiff), but at least you will not encounter plasticizer problems on the scale that Primochill tubing has.

IMHO(if you don't want to use Feser)-Go for either Durelene, and use dyes and everything else, or an even cheaper solution is Clearflex 60, but i know that only works well with stuff such as Mayhems Pastels and Mayhems x1-i cant comment on the other dyes (both the tubings that i mentioned are clear)


----------



## Willi

I just saw these http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=30305
Wonder if that tubing is any good. It's still PVC, but I REALLY want black tubing. And I like the colour under UV, since my mobo also lights up in purple.

The main theme in the case is Purple and BLue/Red mix (Blue + Red = Purple) and it works pretty well with the Enzotech Luna's blue lighting and the very discreet Geil Black Dragon's red LED's.

The problem is: will the masterkleer tubing would also give me plasticizer problems? Is there an opaque black fluid I can use if it does?
Quote:


> To avoid customs fees mate, contact the retailer that is sending you the tubing, and request that they put gift on the customs form, and also a lower monetary value (just under the amount you are allowed in Brazil)-i do this for all my WC gear that i buy outside of the EEC/EU, it works fine, ive bought Oakleys from Australia lol, tubing/QDS from the States, cables from Hong Kong etc.
> Just try what i have said, and you'll be good. thumb.gif


I already do that with every purchase from abroad, but the customs here will open the package and check the contents if you use the "gift form hax", and if there is a purchase invoice inside the box (and it usually is for warranty issues) then they charge based on the value of that invoice. I ask them to place a price below 50USD so that if they charge something, it'll be cheaper and they don't open the package at all. People used the gift form hax too much here in brazil. So much that packages from Performance PC's and FrozenCPU (back when they used to ship down here without charging the abusive shipping) would invariably be opened by the customs and sometimes overtaxated. People stopped doing that then XD

yeah... if I'm getting the new tubing, might as well get a heatsink for the NB and maybe (BIG maybe there) some new noiseblockers NB e-loops. Those are just gorgeous.


----------



## soth

Hi All,

I am currently building a new system with clear tubing,

The tubing will be 1/2ID 3/4 OD and I plan to run a kill coil only (no dead water). I will also most likely use a blue dye (mayhem or similar,).

The goal is to avoid lots of clouding for 3+ months if possible. The tubing should also be relatively see through if possible and not grey/milky white.

I don't mind swapping out the tubing every 3-6 months as I perform maintenance on my builds very regularly.

Options I currently have are:

1) Masterkleer 1/2ID 3/4 OD
2) Tygon 3603 1/2ID 3/4 OD
3) Tygon 2375 Plasticizer free 1/2ID 3/4 OD
4) Durelene PVC tubing 1/2ID 3/4 OD
5) Primochill 1/2ID 3/4 OD
6) ClearFlex 60 1/2ID 3/4 OD
7) Tygon E-1000

Money is not an issue so I do not require the cheapest solution from the bunch









Any assistance you can provide would be greatly appreciated


----------



## Willi

Tygon Plasticizer-free sounds like the best option, since it won't require you to disassemble the blocks very frequently to check for gunk building up. Since you'll be using a killcoil, I'd recomend staying away from anything with plasticizer based on the experience of the people in this tread.


----------



## Ceadderman

I'd recommend against Killcoil altogether. It seems to speed along the Plasticizer issue imho from paying attention to what people here report when they report their plight. Not that silver is the actual cause, just that if the tubing contains an Anti-Microbial, I would think that it's pulling whatever plasticizer there is out of the tubing right along with it. That's the main problem that I can see with having an additive embedded in the tubing formula.









Straight distilled for me. No nothing extree.







lol

~Ceadder


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Willi*
> 
> I just saw these http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=30305
> Wonder if that tubing is any good. It's still PVC, but I REALLY want black tubing. And I like the colour under UV, since my mobo also lights up in purple.
> The main theme in the case is Purple and BLue/Red mix (Blue + Red = Purple) and it works pretty well with the Enzotech Luna's blue lighting and the very discreet Geil Black Dragon's red LED's.
> The problem is: will the masterkleer tubing would also give me plasticizer problems? Is there an opaque black fluid I can use if it does?
> I already do that with every purchase from abroad, but the customs here will open the package and check the contents if you use the "gift form hax", and if there is a purchase invoice inside the box (and it usually is for warranty issues) then they charge based on the value of that invoice. I ask them to place a price below 50USD so that if they charge something, it'll be cheaper and they don't open the package at all. People used the gift form hax too much here in brazil. So much that packages from Performance PC's and FrozenCPU (back when they used to ship down here without charging the abusive shipping) would invariably be opened by the customs and sometimes overtaxated. People stopped doing that then XD
> yeah... if I'm getting the new tubing, might as well get a heatsink for the NB and maybe (BIG maybe there) some new noiseblockers NB e-loops. Those are just gorgeous.


Add Sidewinder to the list of ridiculous overcharging for postage-i get my friends and family to order it for me in the states and then ship it to me here. It's how the retailers make extra money, and raise their profit margins. Not much money to be made by selling 2 m tubing and charging proper postage fee is there? lol!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soth*
> 
> Hi All,
> I am currently building a new system with clear tubing,
> The tubing will be 1/2ID 3/4 OD and I plan to run a kill coil only (no dead water). I will also most likely use a blue dye (mayhem or similar,).
> The goal is to avoid lots of clouding for 3+ months if possible. The tubing should also be relatively see through if possible and not grey/milky white.
> I don't mind swapping out the tubing every 3-6 months as I perform maintenance on my builds very regularly.
> Options I currently have are:
> 1) Masterkleer 1/2ID 3/4 OD
> 2) Tygon 3603 1/2ID 3/4 OD
> 3) Tygon 2375 Plasticizer free 1/2ID 3/4 OD
> 4) Durelene PVC tubing 1/2ID 3/4 OD
> 5) Primochill 1/2ID 3/4 OD
> 6) ClearFlex 60 1/2ID 3/4 OD
> 7) Tygon E-1000
> Money is not an issue so I do not require the cheapest solution from the bunch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any assistance you can provide would be greatly appreciated


You want clear tubing, go for the Durelene-do not be fooled by the cheaper price, most expensive, does not always= best.

BTW Tygon plasticizer free has also been known to cloud up -don't take my word for it do the research online, and you shall see.

Durelene mate, and you are good to go








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I'd recommend against Killcoil altogether. It seems to speed along the Plasticizer issue imho from paying attention to what people here report when they report their plight. Not that silver is the actual cause, just that if the tubing contains an Anti-Microbial, I would think that it's pulling whatever plasticizer there is out of the tubing right along with it. That's the main problem that I can see with having an additive embedded in the tubing formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Straight distilled for me. No nothing extree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol
> ~Ceadder


Im starting to subscribe to C'mans school of thought as well in that my latest loop has only 2 drops of Mayhems extreme biocide-no SKC with Distilled water, when my Mayhems pastel arrives i'll strip the rig down and see whats what.


----------



## Lee17

If I remember right, the tygon plasticizer free isn't really clear, more like yellow/cloud. I saw it somewhere in the thread.

My vote go to the Durelene.

Lee17


----------



## Ceadderman

Stay away from XSPC tubing at all costs. Even with their kits. I've seen people post that their XSPC tubing is not very good for clarity after they've run it. I'd intended to include this warning in my last post but well I was ordering some new fittings and got kinda sidetracked.







lol

~Ceadder


----------



## soth

Thanks for all the responses guys,

If I do not use a kill coil what do you recommend? I've tried straight distilled before and had some algae build up (even after flushing the entire system with 7-10 liters of distilled water and cleaning every rad / block thoroughly (including opening each block and cleaning it out).

Just a drop of Dead water or Mayhem's biocide?

If the plasticizer free tygon is yellowish in color it looks like Durelene is the winner


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soth*
> 
> Thanks for all the responses guys,
> If I do not use a kill coil what do you recommend? I've tried straight distilled before and had some algae build up (even after flushing the entire system with 7-10 liters of distilled water and cleaning every rad / block thoroughly (including opening each block and cleaning it out).
> Just a drop of Dead water or Mayhem's biocide?
> If the plasticizer free tygon is yellowish in color it looks like Durelene is the winner


The SKC is supposed to slow down or stop biological growth such as algae-algae feeds on light, so you could make sure that if you dont use a SKC that you keep your PC away from direct light

-also make sure as soon as you bleed your loop, that you keep it airtight as much as possible, that way foreign objects that promote simple cell organism growth, have less chance of getting into your loop

-also imho, change out your water every 2 months and flush with vinegar/water solution-10 min job tops-then refill with Distilled/biocide once more.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soth*
> 
> Thanks for all the responses guys,
> 
> If I do not use a kill coil what do you recommend? I've tried straight distilled before and had some algae build up (even after flushing the entire system with 7-10 liters of distilled water and cleaning every rad / block thoroughly (including opening each block and cleaning it out).
> 
> Just a drop of Dead water or Mayhem's biocide?
> 
> If the plasticizer free tygon is yellowish in color it looks like Durelene is the winner


A room with blinds almost all the way closed. Just open enough not to allow direct sunlight to enter. That's how mine stays so clean. I also have changed my Distilled about every 3 months or so. As cheap as the stuff is, I don't mind doing it. Although I JUST recently changed the coolant, I'm going to be doing it again to swap out my fittings for a different style. Got bored need a change and Black is too much black for my system. Oh and 24/7 operation helps limit algae growth.







lol

~Ceadder


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lee17*
> 
> If I remember right, the tygon plasticizer free isn't really clear, more like yellow/cloud. I saw it somewhere in the thread.
> My vote go to the Durelene.
> Lee17


Durelene isn't exactly super clear either.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BababooeyHTJ*
> 
> Durelene isn't exactly super clear either.


If we're going to go down that road, then no tubing is super clear, google singularity pcs, and follow his idea of using bitspower crystal links with fittings-thats the only way you will get crystal clear tubing-failing that Durelene is just fine


----------



## 47 Knucklehead

While I've had ZERO issues with my Primochill tubing in over 10 months (and I've checked), I've switched over to clear Durelene tubing + Mayhem dye.

No regrets.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *47 Knucklehead*
> 
> While I've had ZERO issues with my Primochill tubing in over 10 months (and I've checked), I've switched over to clear Durelene tubing + Mayhem dye.
> No regrets.


Gimmee ur bike now!


----------



## 47 Knucklehead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Gimmee ur bike now!


NEVER!

I'd sooner give you all my computers than my '47.


----------



## wermad

My uv blue Primochill tube is still plasticizing. It does make it look darker though









I bought a new roll a week ago; I'll keep an eye out for that piece(s).


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> My uv blue Primochill tube is still plasticizing. It does make it look darker though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought a new roll a week ago; I'll keep an eye out for that piece(s).


bro, just dump that primo-crap and go with colored UV Feser! much better quality (tiny bit stiffer, other than that looks exactly same, at least the UV Blue I have) and for me zero trouble after a month of use








if staying with primo, then at least don't use silver kill coil, it seems it accelerates problems with this tubing.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> bro, just dump that primo-crap and go with colored UV Feser! much better quality (tiny bit stiffer, other than that looks exactly same, at least the UV Blue I have) and for me zero trouble after a month of use
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if staying with primo, then at least don't use silver kill coil, it seems it accelerates problems with this tubing.


Im running naked









I have a ton of the stuff and its not noticeable


----------



## NewHighScore

Anyone have any experience with Feser tubing? I have some sitting in a box upstairs that I was planning to use for my build but I am having second thoughts and wondering if I should order some different stuff. I will be using Mayhems Pastel


----------



## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Stay away from XSPC tubing at all costs. Even with their kits. I've seen people post that their XSPC tubing is not very good for clarity after they've run it. I'd intended to include this warning in my last post but well I was ordering some new fittings and got kinda sidetracked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol
> ~Ceadder


hey mines not bad so far (of course im running fluid xp uv green through the xspc uv orange tubing so go donly know for sure..but my temps haven't gone up...also im using a kill coil)


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Anyone have any experience with Feser tubing? I have some sitting in a box upstairs that I was planning to use for my build but I am having second thoughts and wondering if I should order some different stuff. I will be using Mayhems Pastel


Mate i dont mean to be impolite, but if you read a bit back, you will see that many of us are now using Feser-and we have all provided feedback as to it's reliability









Secondly, if you are using Micks stuff, ie Mayhem's pastel,X1 etc he suggests certain type of tubing to use with his coolants dyes, use the link i've provided below, im sure all your queries/fears will be allayed









Just scroll down and read up on what tubing is suggested for use with Mayhem's pastels:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1286896/mayhems-users-club

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> hey mines not bad so far (of course im running fluid xp uv green through the xspc uv orange tubing so go donly know for sure..but my temps haven't gone up...also im using a kill coil)


Temps are not initially affected by plasticizer problems, firstly it's mostly aesthetic, but as it builds up in the loop over time, it clogs the fins on your blocks and deposits itself in your rads/fittings, then it's a b*tch to remove without certain aftermarket cleaners-please also note, *DO NOT USE YOUR RESERVOIR AS A GUIDE-*one may have plasticizer problems, whilst having a perfectly clear reservoir








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *47 Knucklehead*
> 
> NEVER!
> I'd sooner give you all my computers than my '47.


Damn straight brother!


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Mate i dont mean to be impolite, but if you read a bit back, you will see that many of us are now using Feser-and we have all provided feedback as to it's reliability
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, if you are using Micks stuff, ie Mayhem's pastel,X1 etc he suggests certain type of tubing to use with his coolants dyes, use the link i've provided below, im sure all your queries/fears will be allayed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just scroll down and read up on what tubing is suggested for use with Mayhem's pastels:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1286896/mayhems-users-club
> Temps are not initially affected by plasticizer problems, firstly it's mostly aesthetic, but as it builds up in the loop over time, it clogs the fins on your blocks and deposits itself in your rads/fittings, then it's a b*tch to remove without certain aftermarket cleaners-please also note, *DO NOT USE YOUR RESERVOIR AS A GUIDE-*one may have plasticizer problems, whilst having a perfectly clear reservoir
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damn straight brother!


Thanks for the info. It's not impolite.


----------



## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Mate i dont mean to be impolite, but if you read a bit back, you will see that many of us are now using Feser-and we have all provided feedback as to it's reliability
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, if you are using Micks stuff, ie Mayhem's pastel,X1 etc he suggests certain type of tubing to use with his coolants dyes, use the link i've provided below, im sure all your queries/fears will be allayed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just scroll down and read up on what tubing is suggested for use with Mayhem's pastels:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1286896/mayhems-users-club
> Temps are not initially affected by plasticizer problems, firstly it's mostly aesthetic, but as it builds up in the loop over time, it clogs the fins on your blocks and deposits itself in your rads/fittings, then it's a b*tch to remove without certain aftermarket cleaners-please also note, *DO NOT USE YOUR RESERVOIR AS A GUIDE-*one may have plasticizer problems, whilst having a perfectly clear reservoir
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damn straight brother!


yeah im not using my res as a guide and im aware temps are not the first sign ..however with that fluid in htat tubing the tubing isnt clear enough to see through in the first place! lol esp with the uv lights on


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> yeah im not using my res as a guide and im aware temps are not the first sign ..however with that fluid in htat tubing the tubing isnt clear enough to see through in the first place! lol esp with the uv lights on


if tubing is colored then you need to drain the loop and detach the hose from fitting and peek into it to really see under normal lighting


----------



## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> if tubing is colored then you need to drain the loop and detach the hose from fitting and peek into it to really see under normal lighting


lol not for a lil while...its only been like 3-4 weeks.... i have not the time or energy to do this....i will find out shortly....like i said before as long as my temps dont rise and my pump stays up to its normal self and not under stress then im fine with it ATM...like i said my tubing giant really clear once the uv lights kick on(which is almost always) its not problem for me
now if my pump noise changes at all or i see its rpm drop or my temp start to rise by all means i drain it and check it...lol not that it matter because i end up changing my tubing/fittings every couple months


----------



## wermad

Does TFC make 3/8x5/8 (10mmx16mm) clear tube? I'm interested in picking some up but I can't find anywhere to buy this size







.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> If we're going to go down that road, then no tubing is super clear, google singularity pcs, and follow his idea of using bitspower crystal links with fittings-thats the only way you will get crystal clear tubing-failing that Durelene is just fine


You missed my point. You can't make comments about plasticiser free tygon being yellow and praise Durelene. Its just as yellow. From the pics that I've seen out of the box regular tygon looks very clear but apparently that doesn't always last, hence this thread.

Durelene works great and doesn't appear to have any major issues but you aren't going to use it in a showcase pc.


----------



## NewHighScore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Does TFC make 3/8x5/8 (10mmx16mm) clear tube? I'm interested in picking some up but I can't find anywhere to buy this size
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Here ya go but it's from Canada.









https://www.dazmode.com/store/product/feser_tube_active_uv_hose_-_3_8_id_-_5_8_od_-_clear_not_uv_/

I have some in a box awaiting my build and I must say it looks amazing. I'll have to see how it fares up with my pastel.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewHighScore*
> 
> Here ya go but it's from Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.dazmode.com/store/product/feser_tube_active_uv_hose_-_3_8_id_-_5_8_od_-_clear_not_uv_/
> I have some in a box awaiting my build and I must say it looks amazing. I'll have to see how it fares up with my pastel.


Thanks, but that will be too much of a hassle tbh.


----------



## NewHighScore

Figured so that's why I mentioned Canada. Noone likes customs.


----------



## kkorky

Moderator-please delete-thanks


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BababooeyHTJ*
> 
> You missed my point. You can't make comments about plasticiser free tygon being yellow and praise Durelene. Its just as yellow. From the pics that I've seen out of the box regular tygon looks very clear but apparently that doesn't always last, hence this thread.
> Durelene works great and doesn't appear to have any major issues but you aren't going to use it in a showcase pc.


I didnt miss any point- i havent supported any particular tubing-i have no agenda apart from finding tubing that works, my comments are my opinions/observations, not the gospel









We post our findings/opinions etc here in this thread with the distinct purpose of helping each other out, and hopefully finding tubing that does not have plasticizer problems.

You missed the point actually, in that there is NO *perfectly* crystal clear PVC type tubing-and my comment was tongue in cheek, hence the obviously silly ending vis a vis using crystal links instead-lighten up mate!

I also never said that Tygon is yellow, i commented on Tygon plasticizer free tubing also having been reported as having leeching problems-but if i had made such a comment, i am entitled to my opinion.

Finally, Durelene *HAS* been used in showcase rigs, as have *MOST* of the different types of tubing on the market-this thread isnt really geared towards the varying differences of tubing clarity, it addresses the plasticizer problem hence its title









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Does TFC make 3/8x5/8 (10mmx16mm) clear tube? I'm interested in picking some up but I can't find anywhere to buy this size
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Only place i found it was here mate :

It mentions DD, so i dont know whats going on there-oh, the catch? It's in Russia lol!

http://overhard.ru/water-cooling/shlangi/razmery/10-16/tfc-feser-tube-10-16mm-clear.html

this is the actual Feser link-only clear UV-but at least it's in your neck of the woods-contact them and see whats what mate.

http://www.tfc-us.com/category/38id-58od-tube/


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> I didnt miss any point


Oh, so you were just looking for a disagreement. Got ya.









Quote:


> I also never said that Tygon is yellow, i commented on Tygon plasticizer free tubing also having been reported as having leeching problems-but if i had made such a comment, i am entitled to my opinion.


You aren't even the person that I was originally responding to.









You really are just looking for a disagreement.

I'll throw you on my ignore list.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BababooeyHTJ*
> 
> Oh, so you were just looking for a disagreement. Got ya.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You aren't even the person that I was originally responding to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really are just looking for a disagreement.
> I'll throw you on my ignore list.


*Sigh* dont you just love people that ask and answer their own questions, or who make a comment, but refuse to have comments returned, -

Your comments were directly addressed to me and i replied-if you perceived my reply as looking for a disagreement, well its your opinion(albeit incorrect) and you are entitled to it

Im sorry that you have jumped to your own conclusions-but i wont reward negative behaviour by doing the same mate.

I shall wear my badge of shame on your ignore list with pride









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BababooeyHTJ*
> 
> Dude, what is the problem? Do you not get the main point of my post? **** the heatsink.
> Aren't you the same guy that said "who runs the 35x at full speed"? Unlike the D5 that thing is loud. Even at full speed according to martins testing there is a larger difference than you are giving the D5s credit for. They each have their pros and cons.
> That is my main point. Stop looking for stupid bull**** to argue about.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BababooeyHTJ*
> 
> I'm not sure what testing that is based on.
> I guess that I should just take you word for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is with the 35x2 at 100% power.
> 
> *Oh and take it down a notch, man. Learn to have a discussion without getting all upset when someone questions your opinion*.


That last line was a classic









Although not directed at me, I think that the above speaks for itself









Ok im drawing a line under this-this is way off topic-my apologies to the others for my part in this farce.


----------



## XViper2

Ok, I'm currently building my new rig with Primochill LRT and I also noticed some plasticizing. It's almost instant. I was just leak testing and flushing the system and I took off one of the tubes and it was showing light traces of white already. It was retail packaged 10ft of it. This was with pure distilled water. I haven't put any additives in it yet. I might switch back to Feser if it gets really bad. Primochill states that only 5% of the people have this issue. I'm thinking 95%! This batch was bought 2 weeks ago from FrozenCPU so it should be fairly new but I have no idea how long it's been sitting on their shelf.

I had an older system with all Koolance stuff with Feser Active and there is no sign of plasticizer. None at all. I went about 1 year and all I see is just slight dying of the clear tube since I ran Koolance blue coolant but that was it.


----------



## feniks

swap the tubing before it's too late bro. been there, done that ... if you let it run like that (depositing those sediments) over time you will have that whitish-bluish goo everywhere inside tubing, rads and blocks. for some reason only reservoirs tend to stay clear of it. ... and then you will be flushing it, scrubbing numerous times .... not fun.
my Primo tubing was a UV Blue LRT from a 10ft retail package (got it from frozencpu around June this year), never again. Feser seems to work just fine.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XViper2*
> 
> Ok, I'm currently building my new rig with Primochill LRT and I also noticed some plasticizing. It's almost instant. I was just leak testing and flushing the system and I took off one of the tubes and it was showing light traces of white already. It was retail packaged 10ft of it. This was with pure distilled water. I haven't put any additives in it yet. I might switch back to Feser if it gets really bad. Primochill states that only 5% of the people have this issue. I'm thinking 95%! This batch was bought 2 weeks ago from FrozenCPU so it should be fairly new but I have no idea how long it's been sitting on their shelf.
> I had an older system with all Koolance stuff with Feser Active and there is no sign of plasticizer. None at all. I went about 1 year and all I see is just slight dying of the clear tube since I ran Koolance blue coolant but that was it.


----------



## XViper2

How about XSPC PVC tubing? I'm using 7/16 fittings and Feser doesn't make my size









I think i'm gonna switch to Duralene according to the posts. I hope it lasts.


----------



## duhjuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XViper2*
> 
> How about XSPC PVC tubing? I'm using 7/16 fittings and Feser doesn't make my size
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think i'm gonna switch to Duralene according to the posts. I hope it lasts.


use 1/2" over your barbs


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *XViper2*
> 
> How about XSPC PVC tubing? I'm using 7/16 fittings and Feser doesn't make my size
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think i'm gonna switch to Duralene according to the posts. I hope it lasts.
> 
> 
> 
> use 1/2" over your barbs
Click to expand...

I think you got that backwards, you use 7/16" tubing on 1/2" barbs. If you tried 1/2" tubing on 7/16" barbs it will leak.


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> I think you got that backwards, you use 7/16" tubing on 1/2" barbs. If you tried 1/2" tubing on 7/16" barbs it will leak.


XSPC uses standard 1/2'' barbs and 7/16'' tubing for a tight fit. 1/2'' tubing will fit the 1/2'' barbs just fine if he uses the hose clamps or zip ties to secure the hoses.
only problem would be if he got a kit which came with 7/16'' compression fittings and 7/16'' tubing ... that would be a different story ...


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> I think you got that backwards, you use 7/16" tubing on 1/2" barbs. If you tried 1/2" tubing on 7/16" barbs it will leak.
> 
> 
> 
> XSPC uses standard 1/2'' barbs and 7/16'' tubing for a tight fit. 1/2'' tubing will fit the 1/2'' barbs just fine if he uses the hose clamps or zip ties to secure the hoses.
> only problem would be if he got a kit which came with 7/16'' compression fittings and 7/16'' tubing ... that would be a different story ...
Click to expand...

I read that backwards


----------



## XViper2

Already have compression fittings but I decided to run the primochill for 2 weeks before changing it to duralene. Hope I get lucky and it doesn't cake up too bad.


----------



## nyk20z3

1 week now with Feser Acid Green UV tubing and Mayhems X1 UV Green concentrate with no signs of Plasticizer.

I will report back next week since i need to drain my tube res so i can add a fitting 2 it.


----------



## Willi

just got this tubing on PPC's Masterkleer PVC Black
Hopefully it wont build up gunk like the primochill stuff. At least I have some spare tubing to fill the loop up...


----------



## Ka0sX

has onyone had a problem with build up running jusy coolant along and nothing else?


----------



## kkorky

I Just got :

2m of Clearflex 60 3\8" ID - 1\2" OD (10-13mm) clear tubing,

2m of Masteekleer 7\16" ID - 5\8" OD (11-16mm) clear tubing

1 ltr of Mayhem's Pastel White UV

and a bunch of BP silver rotary fittings (very sweet deal c/o Hellfire toyz-great guy is Eric, i would recommend them unreservedly for watercooling gear)

In the photo , one can clearly see the yellowish tinge of the Masteekleer tubing, whilst the Clearflex 60 is much clearer.

I ordered both types of tubing because:

1) Mick over @ Mayhem's suggested they are good for use with pastel coolants,

2)Im currently running 13/10 tubing, and i may change up to 11/16 tubing.

Anyway, when i do swap out the Feser that im using atm *without SKC*-just 2 drops Mayhems Biocide-(my last photos were Feser tubing *with* a SKC & Biocide), ill post photos of the Feser and see how it fared up to life without a SKC.

(ive included 2 photos because the because the Masteekleer looks slightly different in each photo-you guys be the judge







)


----------



## siffonen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *siffonen*
> 
> Decided to go to my local shop that sells almost everythin made from plastic and rubber, got a 3 meter pvc tube just only 1.50€
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Much cheaper than tygon and primochill, but very stiff to work with. I`ll report in few weeks that how bad is plasticizer with these tubes, if there is any


After 3 weeks, there is no signs of plasticizer, so things are looking good so far, but its only 3 weeks, so i`ll check back in couple of weeks


----------



## wermad

I checked the database I haven't seen anyone report issues with Koolance's tube. It might just be the same stuff as others but I'm curious if anyone has any info or experience? I need to buy an o-ring from them (no one else has this one) so I wouldn't mind placing a small order for some clear tube.

I also thought about getting tube from the local hardware store but they don't have my size







.


----------



## Ceadderman

I thought I updated for my loop... guess not.

Changed out 6 of my fittings a couple days ago and found that yes indeed that I have plasticizer issues with my new(6mo old) tubing.





I only changed the fittings not the tubing. Soon as I can this caca is out of my loop for good.









As most of you know I don't run Killcoil or Additives in my loop. It's a 24/7 system(Fold @ Home) so the likelihood my system having any growth is minimal at best considering that I do change my coolant every 3 months or so.

Well anyway here are some pics of the white stuff that I found on my Black Nickel Compression fittings. It wiped right off when I scratched at it and it hasn't harmed anything but PrimoChill indeed has a problem...




I woulda taken pics of the tubing but it's impossible to hold the section I replaced open and take a pic with my webcam.









So no I can confirm for everyone here that my theory is Invalid. PrimoChill is fail.









~Ceadder


----------



## DiGiCiDAL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I thought I updated for my loop... guess not.
> So no I can confirm for everyone here that my theory is Invalid. PrimoChill is fail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Yeah, although it would be nice (for PrimoChill especially) if there were simply some magic combination of metals or additives that could be avoided - but I think it is obvious that platicizer will leech no matter what - and the more of it used, the worse it will be. I've been examining a few different lengths which I guess I will be using for some experiments (since I won't be using it in my rig) to see what effects heat has - but since people were already seeing it with just DI water after a couple of days... I don't see how there could ever be a magic formula for the current batches of Primo.


----------



## 02ssei

Any idea when their "advanced" tubing is coming out? I've been running blue primochill for just a few days and it's already starting to look a little hazy in some sections. I don't understand how PVC tubing is so hard to get right.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> Any idea when their "advanced" tubing is coming out? I've been running blue primochill for just a few days and it's already starting to look a little hazy in some sections. I don't understand how PVC tubing is so hard to get right.


Brian (head honcho over @Primochill) said November.


----------



## YaboTech

I ran across this thread searching watercooling information and joined the group to hopefully answer your question on the plasticizer leaching. According to my coworker who has over 30 years of chemical technology lab experience, if plasticizer is used in any flexible tubing it will eventually leach. The amount of plasticizer used varies between manufacturers and batches. The common factor is leaching is directly proportional to temperature. The higher your loop temperatures, the quicker the leaching.

YaboTech


----------



## Lee17

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YaboTech*
> 
> I ran across this thread searching watercooling information and joined the group to hopefully answer your question on the plasticizer leaching. According to my coworker who has over 30 years of chemical technology lab experience, if plasticizer is used in any flexible tubing it will eventually leach. The amount of plasticizer used varies between manufacturers and batches. The common factor is leaching is directly proportional to temperature. The higher your loop temperatures, the quicker the leaching.
> YaboTech


I have see the same thing last summer. I ask to a technician if he know something about the leaching or whatever. He know the issue since they use alot of tygon tubing every where and his solution was to change the tubing every years....


----------



## Ceadderman

Thank you both for contributing. While it is very much appreciated we have this information. Primochill stated that it leaches at approximately 30c. So if you're not doing much on your system, at Idle it should never reach that mark. Or at least not if you aren't Overclocking.

But what's the point of watercooling if your system is at constant idle? For 10c difference in idle temp? Seems to me that is costly and pointless. I water cool because my Mainboard requires a cooler temp than on Air and because I Fold. So my system is NEVER at Idle. My average temp is approximately 39c at Load. Also there have been owners(this thread is chock full of instances) people whose tubing didn't last a week before the plasticizer started leaching out of the tubing.

Haven't heard anyone complaining about the Duralene tubing though. Really wish they made white tubing.









~Ceadder


----------



## 02ssei

That's where I'm kind of stuck. My primochill is less than a week old and showing signs of leaching, I don't want plain clear tubing, and I have 7/16 x 5/8 compressions so I can use feser. This new primochill better be good, even though I feel like I should get it for free seeing as the last tubing I bought from them didn't even stay clear a week.


----------



## Kevdog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> That's where I'm kind of stuck. My primochill is less than a week old and showing signs of leaching, I don't want plain clear tubing, and I have 7/16 x 5/8 compressions so I can use feser. This new primochill better be good, even though I feel like I should get it for free seeing as the last tubing I bought from them didn't even stay clear a week.


I haven't read this whole thread but I thought I would share this.

This same thing is happening to me, I just set this loop up 2 weeks ago, in this pic you can see where I pinched the tubing and it rubbed off on the inside, notice the dark spots, when I shine a flashlight under those spots the tubing is clear and the rest looks clouded.


----------



## feniks

you all still using Primo should write complains to them, so the allmighty Brain could respond to your issue from his pedestal and maybe finally recalculate his % number of issues among all sold ... so far the dude states the problem is limited only to 5% of owners and offers some BS Sys Scrubber solution from a good heart (might work or might make things worse as it did for me), but at same time publicly denies the problem ever existed AND at same time announces the launch (in November) of NEW Primochill tubing as free of any issues LOL! sounds like schizophrenia to me ... I persoanlly ditched that tubing and forgot about that psycho PR rep guy and went with other brand, no more trouble.


----------



## Kevdog

Originally Posted by *fenikis*


> you all still using Primo should write complains to them, so the allmighty Brain could respond to your issue from his pedestal and maybe finally recalculate his % number of issues among all sold ... so far the dude states the problem is limited only to 5% of owners and offers some BS Sys Scrubber solution from a good heart (might work or might make things worse as it did for me), but at same time publicly denies the problem ever existed AND at same time announces the launch (in November) of NEW Primochill tubing as free of any issues LOL! sounds like schizophrenia to me ... I persoanlly ditched that tubing and forgot about that psycho PR rep guy and *went with other brand*, no more trouble.


What brand is that?


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Thank you both for contributing. While it is very much appreciated we have this information. Primochill stated that it leaches at approximately 30c. So if you're not doing much on your system, at Idle it should never reach that mark. Or at least not if you aren't Overclocking.
> *But what's the point of watercooling if your system is at constant idle? For 10c difference in idle temp? Seems to me that is costly and pointless. I water cool because my Mainboard requires a cooler temp than on Air and because I Fold. So my system is NEVER at Idle. My average temp is approximately 39c at Load. Also there have been owners(this thread is chock full of instances) people whose tubing didn't last a week before the plasticizer started leaching out of the tubing.*
> Haven't heard anyone complaining about the Duralene tubing though. Really wish they made white tubing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


*THIS* (especially the bold parts)

Only one small addition mate-in hot countries(or in your case hotter states) we have a higher idling temp due to higher ambient temp-so that means leeching from the get go if leeching occurs @ 30c. So we are back to square one-faulty tubing









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kevdog*
> 
> What brand is that?


He means Feser tubing mate-but if you do some reading, there are a couple of other alternatives as well


----------



## tiborrr12

That's why I only use Tygon R6012 (Norprene) and nothing else. Granted it is not the prettiest but you can always sleeve it up







. This is what I always recommend our customers, go with Norprene.

I believe dye breakdowns have been a scapegoat for far too long, I believe the majority of problems come from leeched plasticizer that has been dyed by the colour of the coolant.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EK_tiborrr*
> 
> That's why I only use Tygon R6012 (Norprene) and nothing else. Granted it is not the prettiest but you can always sleeve it up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . This is what I always recommend our customers, go with Norprene.
> 
> *I believe dye breakdowns have been a scapegoat for far too long, I believe the majority of problems come from leeched plasticizer that has been dyed by the colour of the coolant.*


Difficult to argue against that logic. Dye still breaks down and depending on the compound used to make the dye it can still be negative but having seen that plasticizer on my Black Nickel Compressions after removing them from the loop, I can see how plasticizer can take on the color of the dye. The stuff took on the patina from my Copper CPU block and Radiator passes.









~Ceadder


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EK_tiborrr*
> 
> That's why I only use Tygon R6012 (Norprene) and nothing else. Granted it is not the prettiest but you can always sleeve it up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . This is what I always recommend our customers, go with Norprene.
> 
> I believe dye breakdowns have been a scapegoat for far too long, I believe the majority of problems come from leeched plasticizer that has been dyed by the colour of the coolant.


This is what happened to me, when the plasticizer starts to absorb the dye it turns in to clumps, aka gunk.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Came home from a month of leave first thing when I walked in the door I could here my pump making all sorts of racket. I ran over to my PC thinking the pump was sucking air but it wasn't. I then saw that my dye had turned purple from blood red. So I turned the power down to the pump to see if it was pumping still and it was but didn't seem to have as much power. Then I saw there was a bunch of crap floating in my loop. So I tore everything down and this is what I saw.
> 
> You can see how it has mixed here to make a gunk like stuff
> 
> 
> The other side of the block
> 
> 
> You can see the white crap floating in the coolant
> 
> 
> In these you can see everything is coated in it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using distilled water, kill coil, and Mayhem's dye (blood red mix). I'm also using Primochill tubing, it looks like it might have started to cloud on me and the dye mixed in with what ever that white crap is that they are having problems with. So if you are running dye, make sure you watch for plastersizer leaching, even with good dye, it can gunk your blocks up. Everything cleans up easy, but the rad is going to be a pain. I'm hoping vinegar will clean it up. I also need to clean up my GPU block, it's a EK 5870 block and I have never opened one up before, does anyone have any tips for the o-rings or are they not that bad? I know a Rasa block can be a pain if the inner o-ring stretches. I'll take any other tips for cleaning this mess up. I still need to test the pump to see if it was just too much head pressure or if it is dieing on me.


----------



## oicwutudidthar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EK_tiborrr*
> 
> That's why I only use Tygon R6012 (Norprene) and nothing else. Granted it is not the prettiest but you can always sleeve it up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . This is what I always recommend our customers, go with Norprene.
> I believe dye breakdowns have been a scapegoat for far too long, I believe the majority of problems come from leeched plasticizer that has been dyed by the colour of the coolant.


Just like how EK used it's customers as the scapegoat for their shoddy nickel plating?

Scumbags.


----------



## Axehand

G'day lads, I am about to venture into a custom water cooling loop and I'm unsure what tubing to go for. I'm after 1/2 ID, 3/8 OD Green tubing, not sure if I should wait for Primochills new tubing or go for something that is already on the market.

I have everything except the tubing!

Cheers


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicwutudidthar*
> 
> Just like how EK used it's customers as the scapegoat for their shoddy nickel plating?
> Scumbags.


Flogging a dead horse much? mate look, im not the thread starter, nor am i a representative of OCN, but if you feel that strongly about the Nickel plating issue, imho i think that you should post here

:http://www.overclock.net/t/915966/please-read-before-purchasing-ek-nickel-plated-blocks-update-revised-plating-info/1530

One would like to think that this thread is for Plasticizer issues and tubing advice, and any 'trashing' albeit understandable at times due to customer frustration, should have a positive goal -ie to bring to the attention of tubing manufacturers (in this thread) our displeasure or satisfaction with their products.

Trashing EK's past problems here is non productive.

And anyway, im a firm believer in second chances -ok so they messed up-but general consensus seems to show that they are making amends-food for thought perhaps?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axehand*
> 
> G'day lads, I am about to venture into a custom water cooling loop and I'm unsure what tubing to go for. I'm after 1/2 ID, 3/8 OD Green tubing, not sure if I should wait for Primochills new tubing or go for something that is already on the market.
> I have everything except the tubing!
> Cheers


Having been an active member of this thread for a while now, i would safely say that no 'safe' coloured tubing has been brought forward as being without plasticizer problems.
Most users have either decided to 'risk' using coloured tubing, or take the safer route, which is using clear tubing (read up on the various suggested brands in this thread) plus a good dye/coolant from someone like Mayhems.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vrwings*
> 
> I am looking at inert lined tubing like TBL Plastics's Envir-A-Line XX . Claimed to be a unique co-extruded construction, incorporating a highly inert Hytrel™ inner-liner that exhibits excellent dielectric properties and provides a superior gas and moisture barrier. Its moisture permeability is similar to poly-ether based urethanes. The product's data says the outer shell is comprised of a permeable photo-opaque black PVC, so the product can be repeatedly autoclaved without the two materials separating. "...Used widely in the welding industry because of its superior barrier and dielectric characteristics, Hytrel™ contains no plasticizers and does not outgas. The consistant quality and performance of Envir-A-Line is due partly to the industry leading thickness of our Hytrel™ inner-liner thickness.
> http://www.tblplastics.com/tubing_enviraline_1.html
> Does anyone have experience with such hytrel lined products?


Wow! cyber tubing mate









My first concern having digested the information would be, does it bend easily, can it make the tight corners etc that are needed in pc loops









Nice outside the box thinking though


----------



## Vrwings

I am looking at inert lined tubing like TBL Plastics's Envir-A-Line XX . Claimed to be a unique co-extruded construction, incorporating a highly inert Hytrel™ inner-liner that exhibits excellent dielectric properties and provides a superior gas and moisture barrier. Its moisture permeability is similar to poly-ether based urethanes. The product's data says the outer shell is comprised of a permeable photo-opaque black PVC, so the product can be repeatedly autoclaved without the two materials separating. "...Used widely in the welding industry because of its superior barrier and dielectric characteristics, Hytrel™ contains no plasticizers and does not outgas. The consistant quality and performance of Envir-A-Line is due partly to the industry leading thickness of our Hytrel™ inner-liner thickness.

http://www.tblplastics.com/tubing_enviraline_1.html
Does anyone have experience with such hytrel lined products?


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *oicwutudidthar*
> 
> Just like how EK used it's customers as the scapegoat for their shoddy nickel plating?
> Scumbags.
> 
> 
> 
> Flogging a dead horse much? mate look, im not the thread starter, nor am i a representative of OCN, but if you feel that strongly about the Nickel plating issue, imho i think that you should post here
> 
> :http://www.overclock.net/t/915966/please-read-before-purchasing-ek-nickel-plated-blocks-update-revised-plating-info/1530
> 
> One would like to think that this thread is for Plasticizer issues and tubing advice, and any 'trashing' albeit understandable at times due to customer frustration, should have a positive goal -ie to bring to the attention of tubing manufacturers (in this thread) our displeasure or satisfaction with their products.
> 
> Trashing EK's past problems here is non productive.
> 
> And anyway, im a firm believer in second chances -ok so they messed up-but general consensus seems to show that they are making amends-food for thought perhaps?
Click to expand...

Well said kkorky. I've not been a very big fan of EK Nickel , but anything I have to say on the matter don't belong here so I won't wax philosophical on the subject. Needs to remain on point if we hope to get anywhere with the tubing manufacturers.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Axehand*
> 
> G'day lads, I am about to venture into a custom water cooling loop and I'm unsure what tubing to go for. I'm after 1/2 ID, 3/8 OD Green tubing, not sure if I should wait for Primochills new tubing or go for something that is already on the market.
> I have everything except the tubing!
> Cheers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having been an active member of this thread for a while now, i would safely say that no 'safe' coloured tubing has been brought forward as being without plasticizer problems.
> Most users have either decided to 'risk' using coloured tubing, or take the safer route, which is using clear tubing (read up on the various suggested brands in this thread) plus a good dye/coolant from someone like Mayhems.
Click to expand...

Sadlythis is my experience as well. Not sure about the white stuff but the rest of the colored stuff leaches like everything else. We'll have to see if Duralene steps up to fill this void.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Vrwings*
> 
> I am looking at inert lined tubing like TBL Plastics's Envir-A-Line XX . Claimed to be a unique co-extruded construction, incorporating a highly inert Hytrel™ inner-liner that exhibits excellent dielectric properties and provides a superior gas and moisture barrier. Its moisture permeability is similar to poly-ether based urethanes. The product's data says the outer shell is comprised of a permeable photo-opaque black PVC, so the product can be repeatedly autoclaved without the two materials separating. "...Used widely in the welding industry because of its superior barrier and dielectric characteristics, Hytrel™ contains no plasticizers and does not outgas. The consistant quality and performance of Envir-A-Line is due partly to the industry leading thickness of our Hytrel™ inner-liner thickness.
> http://www.tblplastics.com/tubing_enviraline_1.html
> Does anyone have experience with such hytrel lined products?
> 
> 
> 
> Wow! cyber tubing mate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My first concern having digested the information would be, does it bend easily, can it make the tight corners etc that are needed in pc loops
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice outside the box thinking though
Click to expand...

Would they also have colored tubing as well. Specifically White.









~Ceadder


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Well said kkorky. I've not been a very big fan of EK Nickel , but anything I have to say on the matter don't belong here so I won't wax philosophical on the subject. Needs to remain on point if we hope to get anywhere with the tubing manufacturers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sadlythis is my experience as well. Not sure about the white stuff but the rest of the colored stuff leaches like everything else. We'll have to see if Duralene steps up to fill this void.
> Would they also have colored tubing as well. Specifically White.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


My sincere apologies with the double post people but this had to be said:

WE HAVE TO HELP CEADER GET HIS WHITE TUBING!!! I DO NOT KNOW HOW MANY MORE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS HE CAN ENDURE GUYS


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> My sincere apologies with the double post people but this had to be said:
> WE HAVE TO HELP CEADER GET HIS WHITE TUBING!!! I DO NOT KNOW HOW MANY MORE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS HE CAN ENDURE GUYS


----------



## Ceadderman

*TRUTH!*









~Ceadder


----------



## wermad

Run to home depot and buy a roll of Watts black tube in 1/2x3/4 for now. its like $6 Cead


----------



## scaccima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramkatral*
> 
> Yea, but several people here lately have talked about rapid plasticizer build up. Another guy here recently mentioned his clear Primochill was clouding up already after 2 weeks.


I too have Primochill clear tubing and it when cloudy in less than a month. So far, my temps have been very consistent.


----------



## scaccima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raging Bull*
> 
> Hi guys i am also having the same problem. when i initially built my system on 27/12/2011 my tubing was crystal clear but on 1/1/2012 after only 6 days my tubing was cloudy. i was using distilled water with primochill liquid utopia and Mayhems Red dye. i had pre-treated the 5 ltrs off distilled water before filling my loop. Here are the pics off before and after.
> Before when the loop was first built
> 
> After 6 days off running
> 
> haere are the tubes after replacing them with the left over Primoflex LRT 1/2 ID X 3/4 OD
> 
> After replacing the tubes and filling it with the same distilled water and mayhems Pastelle Red dye the tubes have been coated again.
> Replaced tubes on the 10/01/2012 and the tubes have clouded enough to change the dye from blood red to pink on 20/01/2012 thats 10 days after changing out the tubing. *** .
> on the 10th this is what it looked like
> 
> on the 20/01/2012 this is what it looked like
> 
> Primochill really need to fix this if its a problem with their tubing.
> im gonna change out the pipes AGAIN for the third time and this time im gonna mix Mayhems Red Pastelle dye with fresh Distilled water (250 ml of dye with 750 ml off Distilled water= 1 Lt off coolant) and see if it happens again. I have a feeling i may have overtreated the water i used in the previous 2 loops.


I would change out the tubing for red tubing instead. Since the coolant in the res doesn't change colour, at least the red tubing will always stay red. I think it's a combination of tubing, heated liquid and the metals within water blocks that cause tubes to cloud over. I think the only "fix" is to stick with coloured tubing.


----------



## oicwutudidthar

Primotrash pulling an EK.

Companies these days sicken me.


----------



## kj1060

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicwutudidthar*
> 
> Primotrash pulling an EK.
> Companies these days sicken me.


Funny thought: Who or what was the first company to use this tactic? I am trying to imagine a cave man telling a customer he was using the first wheel incorrectly or the fire he sold him was functioning properly when it burned down his cave.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scaccima*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Raging Bull*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hi guys i am also having the same problem. when i initially built my system on 27/12/2011 my tubing was crystal clear but on 1/1/2012 after only 6 days my tubing was cloudy. i was using distilled water with primochill liquid utopia and Mayhems Red dye. i had pre-treated the 5 ltrs off distilled water before filling my loop. Here are the pics off before and after.
> Before when the loop was first built
> 
> After 6 days off running
> 
> haere are the tubes after replacing them with the left over Primoflex LRT 1/2 ID X 3/4 OD
> 
> After replacing the tubes and filling it with the same distilled water and mayhems Pastelle Red dye the tubes have been coated again.
> Replaced tubes on the 10/01/2012 and the tubes have clouded enough to change the dye from blood red to pink on 20/01/2012 thats 10 days after changing out the tubing. *** .
> on the 10th this is what it looked like
> 
> on the 20/01/2012 this is what it looked like
> 
> 
> 
> Primochill really need to fix this if its a problem with their tubing.
> im gonna change out the pipes AGAIN for the third time and this time im gonna mix Mayhems Red Pastelle dye with fresh Distilled water (250 ml of dye with 750 ml off Distilled water= 1 Lt off coolant) and see if it happens again. I have a feeling i may have overtreated the water i used in the previous 2 loops.
> 
> 
> 
> I would change out the tubing for red tubing instead. Since the coolant in the res doesn't change colour, at least the red tubing will always stay red. I think it's a combination of tubing, heated liquid and the metals within water blocks that cause tubes to cloud over. I think the only "fix" is to stick with coloured tubing.
Click to expand...

Wrong, get Sidewinder's stuff, it's cheap and stays clear.

@Raging Bull that tubing coming from the CPU to the GPU has a kink, make it shorter or get an angle fitting to fix it.


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> @Raging Bull that tubing coming from the CPU to the GPU has a kink, make it shorter or get an angle fitting to fix it.


Would you like him to stand to attention and salute as he does it? Tone good sir, tone.


----------



## wermad

I think the QDC are making a smooth run difficult for him. Honestly, its a bit impractical imho having QDC like that. I use qdc(s) for my drainage system.


----------



## Rickles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> I think the QDC are making a smooth run difficult for him. Honestly, its a bit impractical imho having QDC like that. I use qdc(s) for my drainage system.


I also use QDCs for drainage purposes and also I put a temp gauge in over the weekend and with steam updating, 2 browser windows, and hard drive backup my water temp is at 27c. While gaming it goes up to about 37c, but that was playing dota2 with vsync.


----------



## wermad

Here's how mine drain line is setup using a Phobya qdc:


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> @Raging Bull that tubing coming from the CPU to the GPU has a kink, make it shorter or get an angle fitting to fix it.
> 
> 
> 
> Would you like him to stand to attention and salute as he does it? Tone good sir, tone.
Click to expand...

Maybe







no harm indented, just a short and quick reply on what was wrong and how to go about fixing it.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Run to home depot and buy a roll of Watts black tube in 1/2x3/4 for now. its like $6 Cead


Yeah ummmm no.























Remember, I am trying to limit the amount of black I have in my system. It's why I'm selling my EK fittings. Heck at this rate if I was to go black then I think I'd just keep em and go all black.









~Ceadder


----------



## DiGiCiDAL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Heck at this rate if I was to go black then I think I'd just keep em and go all black.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Your ideas appeal to me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.








Black isn't simply a color... it's a way of life.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Wrong, get Sidewinder's stuff, it's cheap and stays clear.
> @Raging Bull that tubing coming from the CPU to the GPU has a kink, make it shorter or get an angle fitting to fix it.


*THIS^*
(the 'stuff' that Good is referring to is called Durelene-he was probably in a rush, so he forgot to mention the name







)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Yeah ummmm no.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, I am trying to limit the amount of black I have in my system. It's why I'm selling my EK fittings. Heck at this rate if I was to go black then I think I'd just keep em and go all black.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Hey at least you can strive towards a higher meaning of the word Stealth PC


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Yeah ummmm no.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, I am trying to limit the amount of black I have in my system. It's why I'm selling my EK fittings. Heck at this rate if I was to go black then I think I'd just keep em and go all black.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Didn't read my post properly???









"For now" as in temporary







Its cheap too


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EK_tiborrr*
> 
> That's why I only use Tygon R6012 (Norprene) and nothing else. Granted it is not the prettiest but you can always sleeve it up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . This is what I always recommend our customers, go with Norprene.
> I believe dye breakdowns have been a scapegoat for far too long, I believe the majority of problems come from leeched plasticizer that has been dyed by the colour of the coolant.


Exactly this.

However.there is an alternative....


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Yeah ummmm no.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, I am trying to limit the amount of black I have in my system. It's why I'm selling my EK fittings. Heck at this rate if I was to go black then I think I'd just keep em and go all black.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't read my post properly???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "For now" as in temporary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its cheap too
Click to expand...

My nerves would be shot on day 0 the moment I put the tubing in my dark azz cave of a 932. This is the only negative about painting the interior of this case Black. As kkorky said I'd at least know the experience of a completely stealth PC.









But nope, cannot see it even for 1 minute. My OCD would be threatening a mutiny and my sanity would back im up.









I'm already out there enough as it is. My GF would leave me if I stepped any further off the precipice that is my sanity.









~Ceadder


----------



## Squallalaha

I have seen this same issue (thanks to fenicks for sending me here).

I had a new loop setup with red and blue 7/16 x 5/8 Primochill from microcenter.

The blue has this issue after 3 weeks, the red, seems fine though. you can see in this pic where I have the CPU loop water, and then the fill port, the loop is no longer opaque as the fill port tube is.
Also the Second loop is new tubing in the pic. So the pump in the top right, for the GPU loop, has new in/out blue tube. The bottom right is the res/fill port for the CPU loop that ran for ~3 weeks.










What proves this further, as a problem with primochill. is in the second pic here, the blue tube after the CPU to the MB, there is actually a piece of 3/8 x 5/8 DangerDen tubing (the barb on the MB is only 3/8), and when I looked at it, it showed NO signs of any film whatsoever.










Anyways, think I would be able to take this back to Microcenter as a defective product? Show them the DD tube and the PC next to each other?

Thanks


----------



## kkorky

Yes mate do that-return it, and if they doubt your claims-then ask them to log onto this site, and show them all the posts about Primochill








They wont be able to say that you are at fault then.


----------



## scaccima

From what I've been told, plasticizer is used to make the tubing more flexible. I haven't seen (or heard) anything proving this. Until the issue of cloudy tubing is fixed (by all tubing manufacturers) I'll stick with coloured tubing.


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Squallalaha*
> 
> I have seen this same issue (thanks to fenicks for sending me here).
> I had a new loop setup with red and blue 7/16 x 5/8 Primochill from microcenter.
> The blue has this issue after 3 weeks, the red, seems fine though. you can see in this pic where I have the CPU loop water, and then the fill port, the loop is no longer opaque as the fill port tube is.
> Also the Second loop is new tubing in the pic. So the pump in the top right, for the GPU loop, has new in/out blue tube. The bottom right is the res/fill port for the CPU loop that ran for ~3 weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What proves this further, as a problem with primochill. is in the second pic here, the blue tube after the CPU to the MB, there is actually a piece of 3/8 x 5/8 DangerDen tubing (the barb on the MB is only 3/8), and when I looked at it, it showed NO signs of any film whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways, think I would be able to take this back to Microcenter as a defective product? Show them the DD tube and the PC next to each other?
> Thanks


wow, do you have a Tt Armor case? same as I do I think, and also painted black








I have a reservoir in spot where you mounted the pump though







pretty interesting how you mounted a radiator at the top! I keep my second one externally mounted (on Swiftech Radbox) though, also made cutouts in MB tray for better cable management.


----------



## Squallalaha

Hey Fen,

yeah its a TT Armor Kandalf LCS. Actually the rad is up front, not on top. There was a factory Rad in a swing out door along the whole front (360) and then the one you can see in the Pic is where the HDD cage would go, so 2 x 360 one internal the other external but mounted to the front.

I have a thread going on the build/rebuild, I believe it was 'r3configur3d' that had a TT Armor he modded, that made me want to do mine.

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?24030-Thermaltake-Kandalf-LCS-Redux&p=169899&posted=1#post169899

and then the Modrigs for it.

http://www.modsrigs.com/detail.aspx?BuildID=30937

Adding this for the DB on Tubing:

Brand: PrimoFlex Pro LRT UV Blue
Source: Microcenter
Purchase Date: July, 2012
Color: Blue
Transparent? (y/n): (um, not clear, but you can see through it..lol..sry.)
Liquid / Additives: Fluid XP+ H2O Industrial Grade Deionized Water UV Invisible Blue
Kill Coil (y/n): No
PH Balance: no idea, sry.
Block Material(s): Copper
Tubing Dimensions: 7/16 x 5/8 x 10ft.
Period of Time: in pics - 4 weeks max.
Tubing Condition & Description: White film on inside of tube.
Notes/Comments: You can see from the previous pics, that the old tubing is no longer clear, as evidenced near the fittings, the new tube, you can see the 'nipple' end of the fitting throught eh tube, the old on, its cloudy and you can no longer see it.

Had a 8 inch piece of Danger Den 3/8 x 5/8 right after the CPU block, where the primochill comes into the cpu block, and it had no signs of this film whatsoever.


----------



## tiborrr12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> Exactly this.
> However.there is an alternative....


Yes, I know how to work copper tubing as you can see from the pic below:









But I don't think that's for everyone, especially beginners.


----------



## Kevdog

How many people have tried this "Scrubber" that Primochill is giving away to people who complain?

I know I read about 1 guy a couple pages back but has anyone else tried it?


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Squallalaha*
> 
> Hey Fen,
> yeah its a TT Armor Kandalf LCS. Actually the rad is up front, not on top. There was a factory Rad in a swing out door along the whole front (360) and then the one you can see in the Pic is where the HDD cage would go, so 2 x 360 one internal the other external but mounted to the front.
> I have a thread going on the build/rebuild, I believe it was 'r3configur3d' that had a TT Armor he modded, that made me want to do mine.
> http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?24030-Thermaltake-Kandalf-LCS-Redux&p=169899&posted=1#post169899
> and then the Modrigs for it.
> http://www.modsrigs.com/detail.aspx?BuildID=30937


great job! yup, Kandalf is pretty much same as Armor, I never had an LCS package with it though, so modded all from scratch















have you had a chance to to look at the rig in my sig?








I feel proud that my work become someone else's inspiration








"he" = me (I am present on different forums)









giving you a +1 in MR too, post some pics over there


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kevdog*
> 
> How many people have tried this "Scrubber" that Primochill is giving away to people who complain?
> I know I read about 1 guy a couple pages back but has anyone else tried it?


I did, results were mediocre and I would personally stay away from this if problems (white residue) already occurred in your tubing AND components (rads, blocks) already has it inside too ... or use it at own responsibility to liquify stuff to make it easier for cleaning/flushing of all components later (you will need to open all blocks and scrub them) and discard the tubing and go with something else.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> I did, results were mediocre and I would personally stay away from this if problems (white residue) already occurred in your tubing AND components (rads, blocks) already has it inside too ... or use it at own responsibility to liquify stuff to make it easier for cleaning/flushing of all components later (you will need to open all blocks and scrub them) and discard the tubing and go with something else.


I've never had the residue combine with the liquid or leave debris on the blocks and rads









Seems to cake/build-up on the inner tube wall and that's it


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> I've never had the residue combine with the liquid or leave debris on the blocks and rads
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems to cake/build-up on the inner tube wall and that's it


not quite so ... this is how my Raystorm block looked alike after being used with Primochill tubing for 6 weeks below. Also upon initial flush under hot tap water (closed block) right after 4 days of using Primo's Sys Scrubber, the block spit out 2 blobs of blue gel from each of ports, each blob the diameter of around 1/4'' ...

BEFORE cleaning (if you zoom in you will see bluish gel particles in jet area):


AFTER cleaning:


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> not quite so ... this is how my Raystorm block looked alike after being used with Primochill tubing for 6 weeks below. Also upon initial flush under hot tap water (closed block) right after 4 days of using Primo's Sys Scrubber, the block spit out 2 blobs of blue gel from each of ports, each blob the diameter of around 1/4'' ...
> BEFORE cleaning (if you zoom in you will see bluish gel particles in jet area):
> 
> AFTER cleaning:


I might have been lucky then because the liquid was pristine. I sold off all my stuff back then and I didn't see anything resembling yours. Might be that yours was excessive









I'll check mine in a month to see how it does


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> not quite so ... this is how my Raystorm block looked alike after being used with Primochill tubing for 6 weeks below. Also upon initial flush under hot tap water (closed block) right after 4 days of using Primo's Sys Scrubber, the block spit out 2 blobs of blue gel from each of ports, each blob the diameter of around 1/4'' ...
> BEFORE cleaning (if you zoom in you will see bluish gel particles in jet area):
> 
> AFTER cleaning:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I might have been lucky then because the liquid was pristine. I sold off all my stuff back then and I didn't see anything resembling yours. Might be that yours was excessive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll check mine in a month to see how it does
Click to expand...

I'll check my blocks when I replace the rest of my fittings. I'm not sure how dirty it is inside my Supreme HF because it's still quite shiny inside when you shine a light over it but the place that I'm worried about plasticizer build up is in the FC block since it's before the CPU. The small bit of tubing connecting them shouldn't leach enough to impact the CPU block that badly. It's the run from the Pumps to the FC Block that has me worried no matter how smooth it is inside the block. Too many places for it to latch onto. Specifically the access plate. I'm hoping that I won't have to remove my block from the Motherboard cause it's such a pain in the azz, as my cutout isn't large enough to do so without pulling the board completely. Might be a good idea to consider modding in an access opening for those points on my Mainboard Tray.









~Ceadder


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EK_tiborrr*
> 
> Yes, I know how to work copper tubing as you can see from the pic below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I don't think that's for everyone, especially beginners.


Liking the condenser coils Niko.

Working copper tube is not hard,ok you might have a bit of waste in the beginning,but its not like learning Esperanto.
At the rate some guys are changing their tube,its probably cheaper too.


----------



## tiborrr12

This is auto-cascading condenser with phase separators to be precise.









Indeed, copper tubes for experienced users and Tygon Norprene R6012 for everyone else!


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EK_tiborrr*
> 
> This is auto-cascading condenser with phase separators to be precise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, copper tubes for experienced users and Tygon Norprene R6012 for everyone else!


Well since Norpene is black( a nice looking tube at that) I would have to go with Copper tubing. Good thing I'm pretty handy with a tubing bender.









For me it's the price per foot that is the killer tho. Still if nobody can get this plasticizer issue figgered out by the time I go to change tubing I'll probably go this direction. I love the look of copper tubing. I'll have to strip the information off the tubing and treat it to keep it looking shiny but NevRDull should work just fine for that. I figure anything that can eat away barnacles of Boat props should work well enough.









~Ceadder


----------



## DiGiCiDAL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I figure anything that can eat away barnacles of Boat props should work well enough.


I once knew this girl who could... nevermind... but I know there's a joke in there somewhere.


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> I might have been lucky then because the liquid was pristine. I sold off all my stuff back then and I didn't see anything resembling yours. Might be that yours was excessive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll check mine in a month to see how it does


hopefully you don't have this trouble if tubes are not in a bad shape. I am just still worried about my RX240 radiator that was used with this cpu block and primochill (and X2O dual bay res pump I sold at time of upgrade to current setup) ... just hoping the inside of my external rad don't look same bad - did flush it with liquid soap, vinegar and lots of hot tap and cold distiller water ... but perhaps I should have flushed it with boiling vinegar & lemon juice/acid mixture ... will never know.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I'll check my blocks when I replace the rest of my fittings. I'm not sure how dirty it is inside my Supreme HF because it's still quite shiny inside when you shine a light over it but the place that I'm worried about plasticizer build up is in the FC block since it's before the CPU. The small bit of tubing connecting them shouldn't leach enough to impact the CPU block that badly. It's the run from the Pumps to the FC Block that has me worried no matter how smooth it is inside the block. Too many places for it to latch onto. Specifically the access plate. I'm hoping that I won't have to remove my block from the Motherboard cause it's such a pain in the azz, as my cutout isn't large enough to do so without pulling the board completely. Might be a good idea to consider modding in an access opening for those points on my Mainboard Tray.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


yup, I'd check on block if primochill's tubing went bad around such components. I haven't checked on GPU Razor 670 block though, it was used for only 1-2 weeks with primochil's tubing and that was after scrubbing and cleaning and flushing of other rads/block and pump+res upgrade. then I swapped tubing to Feser. hopefully I am good to go now and no more trouble down the road.

I modded my case with a dremel to make MB tray cutouts for CPU backplate access (had none before) and cable management cut outs, makes the life so much easier when the time comes!


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> I might have been lucky then because the liquid was pristine. I sold off all my stuff back then and I didn't see anything resembling yours. Might be that yours was excessive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll check mine in a month to see how it does
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hopefully you don't have this trouble if tubes are not in a bad shape. I am just still worried about my RX240 radiator that was used with this cpu block and primochill (and X2O dual bay res pump I sold at time of upgrade to current setup) ... just hoping the inside of my external rad don't look same bad - did flush it with liquid soap, vinegar and lots of hot tap and cold distiller water ... but perhaps I should have flushed it with boiling vinegar & lemon juice/acid mixture ... will never know.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I'll check my blocks when I replace the rest of my fittings. I'm not sure how dirty it is inside my Supreme HF because it's still quite shiny inside when you shine a light over it but the place that I'm worried about plasticizer build up is in the FC block since it's before the CPU. The small bit of tubing connecting them shouldn't leach enough to impact the CPU block that badly. It's the run from the Pumps to the FC Block that has me worried no matter how smooth it is inside the block. Too many places for it to latch onto. Specifically the access plate. I'm hoping that I won't have to remove my block from the Motherboard cause it's such a pain in the azz, as my cutout isn't large enough to do so without pulling the board completely. Might be a good idea to consider modding in an access opening for those points on my Mainboard Tray.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yup, I'd check on block if primochill's tubing went bad around such components. I haven't checked on GPU Razor 670 block though, it was used for only 1-2 weeks with primochil's tubing and that was after scrubbing and cleaning and flushing of other rads/block and pump+res upgrade. then I swapped tubing to Feser. hopefully I am good to go now and no more trouble down the road.
> 
> I modded my case with a dremel to make MB tray cutouts for CPU backplate access (had none before) and cable management cut outs, makes the life so much easier when the time comes!
Click to expand...

Yeah the 932 has an access port that allows me to get at the top and bottom points of the MOSFET mount an the top of the CPU back plate but since I have the EZ Mount kit I don't have to access that. Looks like I have some more Dremeling to do though. I've got my frog tape stuck to the places in the doors that need to be carved badly, but since I don't have my clear plexi for the bigger opening I have planned I'm not carving anything and trashing my doors.









But yeah I was looking at the MB Tray last night and see where I can make a couple holes and not lose my center standoff mounting point. I probably should remove that stand off while there is nothing grounding that point to the board but it shouldn't hurt anything being there. I didn't stop to consider that the block would impede the use of that MB screw until after I got all the other points secured and I was like ... "Oh drat.







", so I'll probably deal with that too if I have to remove the block to check it thoroughly. At least the access plate is the first point of contact so if it has plasticizer in it, hopefully it's limited to the coarser metal of the access plate.









~Ceadder


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Yeah the 932 has an access port that allows me to get at the top and bottom points of the MOSFET mount an the top of the CPU back plate but since I have the EZ Mount kit I don't have to access that. Looks like I have some more Dremeling to do though. I've got my frog tape stuck to the places in the doors that need to be carved badly, but since I don't have my clear plexi for the bigger opening I have planned I'm not carving anything and trashing my doors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yeah I was looking at the MB Tray last night and see where I can make a couple holes and not lose my center standoff mounting point. I probably should remove that stand off while there is nothing grounding that point to the board but it shouldn't hurt anything being there. I didn't stop to consider that the block would impede the use of that MB screw until after I got all the other points secured and I was like ... "Oh drat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ", so I'll probably deal with that too if I have to remove the block to check it thoroughly. At least the access plate is the first point of contact so if it has plasticizer in it, hopefully it's limited to the coarser metal of the access plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


yeah, take your time with it, don't rush any standoffs cutting that you could regret later. I just made a big cut out for CPU backplate (pretty universal should fit all boards except x58) with round corners, very happy with it, using it quite often when removing my cooling block and/or CPU








I don't have any MB blocks (MOSFETS or chipset are not watercooled in my setup).

anyways, good luck with a little dremeling! It's fun to do actually


----------



## Agenesis

Month two of using Durelene - still crystal clear.

I put a few drops of system scrubber into the loop alongside with a silver coil this time just for good measure.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agenesis*
> 
> Month two of using Durelene - still crystal clear.
> 
> I put a few drops of system scrubber into the loop alongside with a silver coil this time just for good measure.


I'm pretty sure that system scrubber isn't for 24/7 use, just for cleaning.


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> I'm pretty sure that system scrubber isn't for 24/7 use, just for cleaning.


yup, Primo says it should be used up to 4 days only.


----------



## Kevdog

I received the system scrubber today and decided to go for it, with in 10 minutes it started working here is a pic and the instructions from Primochill


----------



## Ceadderman

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






*"USE AT YOUR OWN RISK..."*

Yeah um... NO, I don't think so. I'll not be using System scrubber.

If it was MY fault, yeah okay I can do that. It's already leaching I can't make it any worse. But this plasticizer issue is not my fault and I'm using Opaque tubing so I can imagine what could happen to the internals of my loop in 4 days of running it. Don't even know if it's safe for acrylics and to get a replacement top for my CPU block I'd have to order from EK who will drop some wild azz shipping charge on it because if I use this stuff and knackers my blocks it's on me. Forget that noise.









~Ceadder


----------



## NimbleJack

Can i pose a hypothesis?

Could the problem people have with tubing be an issue of the ph level adjusting out of neutral?

All types of water, distilled or tap will work its way up or down the ph scale. Could the plastizer leeching in tubing be from the water falling out of neutral and attacking the tubing? Standard watercooler practise is to use distilled, but every watercooler uses different brands of distilled water, and it is probably safe to say even the same brand has different batches. The water being bought is not gaurenteed to be at a neutral ph, it is just gaurenteed to be free of mineral and deposites.

Water will naturally become more acidic/base, based on the enviornment the water is in. Example being pools and aquariums, would it be worth testing to see if this natural occurance is the issue with the plasticizer leeching?


----------



## Kevdog

I asked if it would damage anything,

Quote:


> Will this scrubber damage any of my water cooling system?
> Kevin
> 
> Kevin,
> The scrubber will not do damage, it has no harsh chemicals. Instructions are included with the scrubber. Have a great day!
> Regards,
> Jennifer
> Customer Support Specialist


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NimbleJack*
> 
> Can i pose a hypothesis?
> 
> Could the problem people have with tubing be an issue of the ph level adjusting out of neutral?
> 
> All types of water, distilled or tap will work its way up or down the ph scale. Could the plastizer leeching in tubing be from the water falling out of neutral and attacking the tubing? Standard watercooler practise is to use distilled, but every watercooler uses different brands of distilled water, and it is probably safe to say even the same brand has different batches. The water being bought is not gaurenteed to be at a neutral ph, it is just gaurenteed to be free of mineral and deposites.


Doubtful. I started off with a PH level below 1(WalMart Brand Distilled which Martin from Liquid Labs recommends) I think the PH level he tested was around .7ph. I doubt that running 0 additives in a closed loop would impact the PH level enough to make it suck the plasticizer out of the tubing. Not to mention that by PC's own admission their tubing leaches at above 30c. Nobody runs Load temps at below 30c without a chiller in the loop. So it would be pointless to run a Water Cooling loop of any sort unless you didn't do anything except browsing.









I thought it might be killcoil cause that's the one thing that most everybody to a man runs. I don't run either coil or additives in my system. Just straight distilled and Distilled is so cheap I change it every 3 months now. I was into my system about a week or so ago now and I found that I didn't dodge any bullets. Got mowed down by Plasticizer like a DDay soldier leaving the protective cover of a Landing Craft. Not to be disrespectful to them in the slightest. You take your chances with PC tubing.









@KevDog.I appreciate that KD, still I'm not gonna screw around with my system. These things cost enough and they could tell me that it would turn my tubes into 18k gold. I still won't use it because of their insistence that they won't accept any liability.









~Ceadder


----------



## XViper2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kevdog*
> 
> I received the system scrubber today and decided to go for it, with in 10 minutes it started working here is a pic and the instructions from Primochill
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1101794/
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1101801/


I'm actually really curious what happens. Someone else tried using it too and said that after he ran the system scrubber, it didn't plasticize anymore. Maybe I want to try the system scrubber too to see what happens.


----------



## 02ssei

Mine is running system scrubber now. Res is all cloudy. My guess is the anti microbial they put in the tubing since the new advanced tubing does not have that.


----------



## Systemlord

I believe Primochill has figured out what is causing the issue with their tubing, the System Scrubber is proof of that! I truly believe Primochill's newer advance tubing will be effective just like the System Scrubber. Call it a hunch if you will.


----------



## mybadomen

Smartest comment i read in this whole thread. Someday people with realize it happens to ALL brand tubing and you can have the same identical tubing from the same roll in 2 systems 1 might cloud one might not. Been testing tubing non stop for over a year now every day its running and threw out tons of it 100's of feet . listened to many comments of the great tubing brands here also thinking someone found a solution, they are also in the trash now. there is a tubing that's perfect and will be available Nov 1st but most here wont try it anyway. Besides that the scrubber is safe stuff i use it all the time just to clean my loop when changing colors.I have said it before and will say it again its not the tubing and def not a particular brand. not meaning to sound harsh but this threads been here like a year now and everyone is just saying the same old thing and bashing the company who solved it. The Tubing is here its only sold in clear and will be available Nov 1st. Believe me or not thats all i can do. I have done my part testing my arse off and i know its good so there is the answer. now maby this thread will go away. LOL

anyway take care guys

MybadOmen

not mad just tired and been testing overtime lately to make damn sure we really have a cloud proof tubing.

here it is by the way still running and i had my cpu to 98C !!! just to see if it affected the tubing and nope.

This photo don't show much besides you can see its way shinier then normal tubing. will take some shots when i change colors again.


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> *Doubtful. I started off with a PH level below 1*(WalMart Brand Distilled which Martin from Liquid Labs recommends) I think the PH level he tested was around .7ph. I doubt that running 0 additives in a closed loop would impact the PH level enough to make it suck the plasticizer out of the tubing. Not to mention that by PC's own admission their tubing leaches at above 30c. Nobody runs Load temps at below 30c without a chiller in the loop. So it would be pointless to run a Water Cooling loop of any sort unless you didn't do anything except browsing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought it might be killcoil cause that's the one thing that most everybody to a man runs. I don't run either coil or additives in my system. Just straight distilled and Distilled is so cheap I change it every 3 months now. I was into my system about a week or so ago now and I found that I didn't dodge any bullets. Got mowed down by Plasticizer like a DDay soldier leaving the protective cover of a Landing Craft. Not to be disrespectful to them in the slightest. You take your chances with PC tubing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @KevDog.I appreciate that KD, still I'm not gonna screw around with my system. These things cost enough and they could tell me that it would turn my tubes into 18k gold. I still won't use it because of their insistence that they won't accept any liability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


PH7 is neutral,PH1 is hydrofluoric acid and the like...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> I believe Primochill has figured out what is causing the issue with their tubing, the System Scrubber is proof of that! I truly believe Primochill's newer advance tubing will be effective just like the System Scrubber. Call it a hunch if you will.


No,if they had figured it out,they would modify the composition to stop it happening,the Sysclean is cleaning,not stopping it from happening.

Sysclean....so safe they put a corrosive warning on the side....


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> *Doubtful. I started off with a PH level below 1*(WalMart Brand Distilled which Martin from Liquid Labs recommends) I think the PH level he tested was around .7ph. I doubt that running 0 additives in a closed loop would impact the PH level enough to make it suck the plasticizer out of the tubing. Not to mention that by PC's own admission their tubing leaches at above 30c. Nobody runs Load temps at below 30c without a chiller in the loop. So it would be pointless to run a Water Cooling loop of any sort unless you didn't do anything except browsing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought it might be killcoil cause that's the one thing that most everybody to a man runs. I don't run either coil or additives in my system. Just straight distilled and Distilled is so cheap I change it every 3 months now. I was into my system about a week or so ago now and I found that I didn't dodge any bullets. Got mowed down by Plasticizer like a DDay soldier leaving the protective cover of a Landing Craft. Not to be disrespectful to them in the slightest. You take your chances with PC tubing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @KevDog.I appreciate that KD, still I'm not gonna screw around with my system. These things cost enough and they could tell me that it would turn my tubes into 18k gold. I still won't use it because of their insistence that they won't accept any liability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PH7 is neutral,PH1 is hydrofluoric acid and the like...
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> I believe Primochill has figured out what is causing the issue with their tubing, the System Scrubber is proof of that! I truly believe Primochill's newer advance tubing will be effective just like the System Scrubber. Call it a hunch if you will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No,if they had figured it out,they would modify the composition to stop it happening,the Sysclean is cleaning,not stopping it from happening.
> 
> Sysclean....so safe they put a corrosive warning on the side....
Click to expand...

Well I guess that It's not .7ph then.







lol Otherwise the stuff woulda eaten it's way through the tubing and I'd have more than plasticizer to worry about.









Thanks for the correcttion BNeg.









~Ceadder


----------



## Simplynicko

yeah i was about to call you out on the pH too. lol


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> Mine is running system scrubber now. Res is all cloudy. My guess is the anti microbial they put in the tubing since the new advanced tubing does not have that.


mine did the same thing within 24hrs, all the water became cloudy (in res), kept it for 4 days and drained it fully, each component alone after initial drain ... I then flushed them all under hot tap water (and a dab of liquid soap) ... that's how I found the CPU block had some loose blue gel inside ... tubes weren't cleaned thoroughly, had still to scrub them with a stick and sponge (and liquid soap) until clean then flush ... afer all was re-installed, the tube clouding returned in a week or so in some spots ...


----------



## scaccima

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kevdog*
> 
> I asked if it would damage anything,


I like that, "Instructions are included" and the "instructions" tell you to "use at your own risk". Nice way of protecting your customers, and portraying a positive atitude about your company at the saime time.


----------



## XViper2

So far the tubing is a bit cloudy. When this new tubing gets released, I'll test it too. Blocks are clean so far. My system runs warm at 60c under load so it should be leeching already. I can't get my money back from the tubing so might as well get as much use out of it as possible.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> Smartest comment i read in this whole thread. Someday people with realize it happens to ALL brand tubing and you can have the same identical tubing from the same roll in 2 systems 1 might cloud one might not. Been testing tubing non stop for over a year now every day its running and threw out tons of it 100's of feet . listened to many comments of the great tubing brands here also thinking someone found a solution, they are also in the trash now. there is a tubing that's perfect and will be available Nov 1st but most here wont try it anyway. Besides that the scrubber is safe stuff i use it all the time just to clean my loop when changing colors.I have said it before and will say it again its not the tubing and def not a particular brand. not meaning to sound harsh but this threads been here like a year now and everyone is just saying the same old thing and bashing the company who solved it. The Tubing is here its only sold in clear and will be available Nov 1st. Believe me or not thats all i can do. I have done my part testing my arse off and i know its good so there is the answer. now maby this thread will go away. LOL
> 
> anyway take care guys
> 
> MybadOmen
> 
> not mad just tired and been testing overtime lately to make damn sure we really have a cloud proof tubing.
> 
> here it is by the way still running and i had my cpu to 98C !!! just to see if it affected the tubing and nope.
> 
> This photo don't show much besides you can see its way shinier then normal tubing. will take some shots when i change colors again.


Yes other tubing will cloud, no one is saying other wise. What people are saying is the Primochill's stuff has started leaving this crap all over are loops, even though in the past it never has like it does now. I'm talking very fast and lots of it, more so than any other tubing even Primochill's tubing of the past. I'm sorry, we all know the tubing will react different in every loop, so your results may very from others, and the fact you have been sponsored by them along with working with them doesn't help your case for trying to clear their name. I don't think this thread is going anywhere until they quit selling the stuff they have now. But if this new stuff isn't any better than Durelene or at the same price point, I don't see a lot of people going back unless they come out with color tubing.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agenesis*
> 
> Month two of using Durelene - still crystal clear.
> I put a few drops of system scrubber into the loop alongside with a silver coil this time just for good measure.


????? why?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> I'm pretty sure that system scrubber isn't for 24/7 use, just for cleaning.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> yup, Primo says it should be used up to 4 days only.


*THIS^*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> I believe Primochill has figured out what is causing the issue with their tubing, the System Scrubber is proof of that! I truly believe Primochill's newer advance tubing will be effective just like the System Scrubber. Call it a hunch if you will.


The Marketing campaign begins









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> Smartest comment i read in this whole thread. Someday people with realize it happens to ALL brand tubing and you can have the same identical tubing from the same roll in 2 systems 1 might cloud one might not. Been testing tubing non stop for over a year now every day its running and threw out tons of it 100's of feet . listened to many comments of the great tubing brands here also thinking someone found a solution, they are also in the trash now. there is a tubing that's perfect and will be available Nov 1st but most here wont try it anyway. Besides that the scrubber is safe stuff i use it all the time just to clean my loop when changing colors.I have said it before and will say it again its not the tubing and def not a particular brand. not meaning to sound harsh but this threads been here like a year now and everyone is just saying the same old thing and bashing the company who solved it. The Tubing is here its only sold in clear and will be available Nov 1st. Believe me or not thats all i can do. I have done my part testing my arse off and i know its good so there is the answer. now maby this thread will go away. LOL
> anyway take care guys
> MybadOmen


*And takes full flight!!!!
*
I really hope that people use their own brains and judgement, instead of listening to sponsored rig builders who are trying to 'cloud' (excuse the pun) the truth, just so they can get their products for free-we already heard from this guy before, and he would have us believe that what so many users of Primochill have suffered is their fault! (as Mybadomen suggested in his last post sometime back)

And i quote again from his passage '*everyone is just saying the same old thing and bashing the company who solved it. The Tubing is here its only sold in clear and will be available Nov 1st*.'

1)solved what?? *I THOUGHT THAT THERE WAS NO PROBLEM-HELL YOU WERE SHOUTING IT FROM THE MOUNTAIN TOPS LOL!*

2)Where is proof of your prior testing that you have mentioned-more to the point who are you that we should pay attention to your results?
In what capacity are you making these unproven statements? I could whip up a batch of false results with excel in 1 hr.

3)Clear tubing without problems already exists-its called Durelene-give it a rest with your snake oil. Sure Primochill may come out with a similar sort of tubing, but stop insulting people's intelligence with marketing crap!

4) ill repeat myself and say the same thing i said the last time this Mybadomen tried to create false impressions-he is a sponsored rig builder and would say anything on behalf of his sponsors-but then again, you guys are smart enough to have figured that out yourselves









He was the same guy when EK had the plating prob, posted words to the effect that all is ok with the nickel products-hey, did i forget to mention that he was being sponsored by EK at the time?

http://www.overclock.net/t/915966/please-read-before-purchasing-ek-nickel-plated-blocks-update-revised-plating-info/1390 (post 1394)Funny how this guy has no problems with any of his sponsored gear........

*The tubing company that has 'solved' all our tubing problems should at least get someone with better marketing communication skills to try to create false flags or belittle people's valid opinions-as an agent provocateur he fails big time








*

You know what gets me? Even if Primochill's tubing was fault free, and they were being wrongly dragged over the coals(which they are not),
they should show some class, instead of sending substandard mouthpieces to insult a wide range of current and ex Primochill users, they should let their products do the talking, the proof is in the pudding, so to speak-because i am sure that if their product is up to par, everyone here would gladly say so (me included)-what better advertising could they wish for than having ex disgruntled customers change their tune


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XViper2*
> 
> So far the tubing is a bit cloudy. When this new tubing gets released, I'll test it too. Blocks are clean so far. My system runs warm at 60c under load so it should be leeching already. I can't get my money back from the tubing so might as well get as much use out of it as possible.


I believe it is the temperature of the water that can encourage leaching, not the component. I don't think it matters what your CPU is running at if your water temp is below 30.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> Smartest comment i read in this whole thread. Someday people with realize it happens to ALL brand tubing and you can have the same identical tubing from the same roll in 2 systems 1 might cloud one might not. Been testing tubing non stop for over a year now every day its running and threw out tons of it 100's of feet . listened to many comments of the great tubing brands here also thinking someone found a solution, they are also in the trash now. there is a tubing that's perfect and will be available Nov 1st but most here wont try it anyway. Besides that the scrubber is safe stuff i use it all the time just to clean my loop when changing colors.I have said it before and will say it again its not the tubing and def not a particular brand. not meaning to sound harsh but this threads been here like a year now and everyone is just saying the same old thing and bashing the company who solved it. The Tubing is here its only sold in clear and will be available Nov 1st. Believe me or not thats all i can do. I have done my part testing my arse off and i know its good so there is the answer. now maby this thread will go away. LOL
> anyway take care guys
> MybadOmen
> not mad just tired and been testing overtime lately to make damn sure we really have a cloud proof tubing.
> here it is by the way still running and i had my cpu to 98C !!! just to see if it affected the tubing and nope.
> This photo don't show much besides you can see its way shinier then normal tubing. will take some shots when i change colors again.


hey, hey!!!! Long time no see buddy! Thanks for your continual commitment and work on this. I'm uv blue; using some Primochill from a few months back and a new roll. I'm going to check later how the new piece does.


----------



## 02ssei

Colored advanced LRT is supposed to be of after the first of the year. My UV blue pro LRT is clearing up pretty well with the scrubber, but there should have never been that much build up in a week. I'll be getting some of the advanced LRT as soon as it comes out to test and see how it compares.


----------



## PTCB

Hate to break it to you, but this is Durelene. Cloudy in less than a month, more like two weeks. The top one is a brand new 1/2" x 3/4" Durelene tubing. The bottom is the 7/16" x 5/8" Durelene tubing which has been in the loop for ~2 weeks. Coolant = Distilled ( from lab distiller) + Corrosion Inhibitor (non-Glycol based) at 5% ratio. I also found some white residue in the reservoir around the waterline.



EDIT: I'll give Norprene a try the next coolant change.


----------



## XViper2

I guess nothing is safe. I don't mind clouding so much as long as it doesn't leave stuff in the loop. Only time will tell if it breaks down. I have ordered duralene for my setup already.


----------



## PTCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XViper2*
> 
> I don't mind clouding so much as long as it doesn't leave stuff in the loop.


Yeah, me too. I haven't opened my blocks so no idea what it's like in there. Also, I'm setting up another loop for my other rig. I'll use pre-mixed XSPC coolant with the 1/2" x 3/4" Durelene tubing I have laying around this time and see how it goes. I'll report back on both loop. Cheers.


----------



## Ceadderman

Okay then that settles it, Cheap or not I won't be buying Duralene.

I'm starting to think that this is somewhat like Radiators. Lots of companies selling, few actual manufacturers makin them. It\s probably the same with tubing.









~Ceadder


----------



## PTCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Lots of companies selling, few actual manufacturers makin them. It\s probably the same with tubing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Yep. And Durelene = Tygon (Saint-Gobain Corporation) anyway.


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Okay then that settles it, Cheap or not I won't be buying Duralene.
> I'm starting to think that this is somewhat like Radiators. Lots of companies selling, few actual manufacturers makin them. It\s probably the same with tubing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


As clear tubing goes tho,its still the best option available....
Primoschill dumps epic amounts of crud into the loop,a little bit of clouding i can deal with....but not a whiteout.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Okay then that settles it, Cheap or not I won't be buying Duralene.
> I'm starting to think that this is somewhat like Radiators. Lots of companies selling, few actual manufacturers makin them. It\s probably the same with tubing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As clear tubing goes tho,its still the best option available....
> Primoschill dumps epic amounts of crud into the loop,a little bit of clouding i can deal with....but not a whiteout.
Click to expand...

Agreed. But I don't plan on buying PC tubing. I'm thinking Feser or Masterkleer in white and seeing how that fares. Can't be any worse than PrimoChill LRT.









~Ceadder


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Agreed. But I don't plan on buying PC tubing. I'm thinking Feser or Masterkleer in white and seeing how that fares. Can't be any worse than PrimoChill LRT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder












Copper Ceadder...copper....

*one of us-one of us-one of us*

we have cookies


----------



## _REAPER_

I went with MasterKleer as per the good advice of many people


----------



## DiGiCiDAL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Copper Ceadder...copper....
> *one of us-one of us-one of us*
> we have cookies


Yeah B Negative... I think I'm on my way to becoming one of you. (Guess the chant worked... or could be the cloudy tubing). I'm gonna run everything with tubing first though... for the experience, and because I'll have to change out all of my fittings... which isn't a cost I'm looking forward to at the moment. However, I just love the look that it gives - and your walkthrough on using it.


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiGiCiDAL*
> 
> Yeah B Negative... I think I'm on my way to becoming one of you. (Guess the chant worked... or could be the cloudy tubing). I'm gonna run everything with tubing first though... for the experience, and because I'll have to change out all of my fittings... which isn't a cost I'm looking forward to at the moment. However, I just love the look that it gives - and your walkthrough on using it.


The average push fit fittings is around £1.75
1m of 12mm copper is around £6
Benders £20
Cutter £10

Its cheaper than you might think.

Im glad my guide helped you,Good luck with your build,if you want any specific help then please PM or post in the pipebending thread


----------



## JohnnyEars

I originally ran XSPC clear hose with Mayhems X1 u/v blue, this went cloudy with a brown haze within 4 weeks.
I then ran Masterkleer clear u/v blue, with Mayhems X1 u/v blue - it went cloudy with a white haze within 4 weeks..
I've just switched to Masterkleer clear with Mayhems pastel blue, I'll see how that goes. (no other additives in all 3 setups)

XSPC hose top, Masterkleer clear u/v blue bottom:


----------



## Willi

well... looks like we are all doomed to tubing clouding regardless of manufacturers.

where is that copper tubing tutorial again? I'd love to take a look


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Agreed. But I don't plan on buying PC tubing. I'm thinking Feser or Masterkleer in white and seeing how that fares. Can't be any worse than PrimoChill LRT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Copper Ceadder...copper....
> 
> *one of us-one of us-one of us*
> 
> we have cookies
Click to expand...

Yeah it'll probably be better to go Copper and you just know how much I love Copper. But that would mean my main system is down for at least a day while I get the routing hammered out, plus then I've also got my Case mod that I have to get started sometime in the near future(Leaving town on the 4th December for an undetermined amount of time) so I doubt that I'll be doing this over the winter, Also let's remember that I *just* purchased my new Monsoon fittings and I'll be getting 6 more so I'm hoping I get quite a bit of my gear sold. Otherwise I'm gonna make a certain lady of mine very unhappy if I miss that flight. And an unhappy lady is not something I tend to have on my hands.

I mean c'mon Mate would you want this lady mad at you?



She might be a little miffed if she knew I posted this pic but after I explained why she'd forgive. I'd have to do penance but yea...









So no atm I've gotta make it as quick and painless and cost effective as possible cause I'm not gonna be home while the Rig is folding.









~Ceadder


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Willi*
> 
> well... looks like we are all doomed to tubing clouding regardless of manufacturers.
> where is that copper tubing tutorial again? I'd love to take a look


Link in my sig


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> As clear tubing goes tho,its still the best option available....
> Primoschill dumps epic amounts of crud into the loop,a little bit of clouding i can deal with....but not a whiteout.


*THIS^*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Agreed. But I don't plan on buying PC tubing. I'm thinking Feser or Masterkleer in white and seeing how that fares. Can't be any worse than PrimoChill LRT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Im stripping my rig next week to change to either Masteekleer or Clearflex 60(i have both) -as suggested by Mick @ Mayhem's for use with His Pastel UV white-ill post pictures of the uv feser clear that i have been using with only WFI @ 2 drops biocide (its still clear right now.)

Im also hoping to get some of the new Primochill tubing-if i do, ill run it with 3 setups, and provide honest feedback-im hoping they have redeemed themselves -ive always said that this isnt about 'hatchet jobs' but rather getting a product that works properly.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Okay then that settles it, Cheap or not I won't be buying Duralene.
> I'm starting to think that this is somewhat like Radiators. Lots of companies selling, few actual manufacturers making them. It\s probably the same with tubing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Until our hobby/obsession or whatever you want to call it grows to the point where its economically viable for a 'serious' tubing manufacturer to actually sink money into tubing that does not cloud, there will always be problems, until then certain tubing will always be better than others.

When people mention Durelene/Feser etc, what i understand from that(as when i do), is people trying to offer a viable solution(albeit temporary) to the above average problems presented by certain types of tubing.

B Negative-time to start copper tubing classes on YOUTUBE mate









Footnote:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Agreed. Every bit. Unfortunately my OCD is that of demanding a limit on the damages to the billfold. So if I buy tubing it at least has to be white. It really sucks when I can't imagine showing off my system without White (or Copper
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) tubing. You should see me when someone cuts me off from finishing a thought cause they know what I'm gonna say next. It's frickin painful Mate.So much so I still gotta say it after they cut me off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I'm tryin ta limit the damage and the amount of time invested during November so I can get off the ground come December. A weather issue I cannot control. A Computer issue, yeah I can control that somewhat. So no excuse will be accepted if I miss the flight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


When i was a serious hc raider in WOW-there was a saying mate: RL B4 WoWlife- if necessary, the pc gathers cobwebs, not your girlfriend mate


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> As clear tubing goes tho,its still the best option available....
> Primoschill dumps epic amounts of crud into the loop,a little bit of clouding i can deal with....but not a whiteout.
> 
> 
> 
> *THIS^*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Agreed. But I don't plan on buying PC tubing. I'm thinking Feser or Masterkleer in white and seeing how that fares. Can't be any worse than PrimoChill LRT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Im stripping my rig next week to change to either Masteekleer or Clearflex 60(i have both) -as suggested by Mick @ Mayhem's for use with His Pastel UV white-ill post pictures of the uv feser clear that i have been using with only WFI @ 2 drops biocide (its still clear right now.)
> 
> Im also hoping to get some of the new Primochill tubing-if i do, ill run it with 3 setups, and provide honest feedback-im hoping they have redeemed themselves -ive always said that this isnt about 'hatchet jobs' but rather getting a product that works properly.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Okay then that settles it, Cheap or not I won't be buying Duralene.
> I'm starting to think that this is somewhat like Radiators. Lots of companies selling, few actual manufacturers making them. It\s probably the same with tubing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Until our hobby/obsession or whatever you want to call it grows to the point where its economically viable for a 'serious' tubing manufacturer to actually sink money into tubing that does not cloud, there will always be problems, until then certain tubing will always be better than others.
> 
> When people mention Durelene/Feser etc, what i understand from that(as when i do), is people trying to offer a viable solution(albeit temporary) to the above average problems presented by certain types of tubing.
> 
> B Negative-time to start copper tubing classes on YOUTUBE mate
Click to expand...

Agreed. Every bit. Unfortunately my OCD is that of demanding a limit on the damages to the billfold. So if I buy tubing it at least has to be white. It really sucks when I can't imagine showing off my system without White (or Copper







) tubing. You should see me when someone cuts me off from finishing a thought cause they know what I'm gonna say next. It's frickin painful Mate.So much so I still gotta say it after they cut me off.









But I'm tryin ta limit the damage and the amount of time invested during November so I can get off the ground come December. A weather issue I cannot control. A Computer issue, yeah I can control that somewhat. So no excuse will be accepted if I miss the flight.









~Ceadder


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PTCB*
> 
> Hate to break it to you, but this is Durelene. Cloudy in less than a month, more like two weeks. The top one is a brand new 1/2" x 3/4" Durelene tubing. The bottom is the 7/16" x 5/8" Durelene tubing which has been in the loop for ~2 weeks. Coolant = Distilled ( from lab distiller) + Corrosion Inhibitor (non-Glycol based) at 5% ratio. I also found some white residue in the reservoir around the waterline.
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: I'll give Norprene a try the next coolant change.


Did you have problems before this? If you did, did you flush your loop and how?


----------



## YaboTech

Has anybody tried the Tygon 2375 Ultra Chemical Resistant? It's clear, plasticizer free, and 1/2" x 3/4" has a 1 1/2" minimum bend radius according to the specifications at Saint-Gobain. $5.00 per foot at US Plastic.


----------



## DiGiCiDAL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> The average push fit fittings is around £1.75
> 1m of 12mm copper is around £6
> Benders £20
> Cutter £10
> Its cheaper than you might think.
> Im glad my guide helped you,Good luck with your build,if you want any specific help then please PM or post in the pipebending thread


The prices on the benders, cutter, and tubing is fine... and in the long run the fittings are fine too... but considering I just purchased and installed about $200 worth of Bitspower compressions in my system... I'd like to go ahead and use them for awhile.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I mean c'mon Mate would you want this lady mad at you?
> 
> She might be a little miffed if she knew I posted this pic but after I explained why she'd forgive. I'd have to do penance but yea...


Well, if she can get past the fact that you apparently don't ever use your furnace (or at least not enough for her it appears) then I'm sure she's forgiving enough to let a 3-4 day build slide by unnoticed.


----------



## Klavins

Distilled water + engine coolant + Primochill Utopia (all 3ml), 8 months old PrimoFlex LRT Pro tubing compared with brand new tubing.

As can be seen, no discolouration or plasticizing, etc:


----------



## Ceadderman

^^^ Probably cause the Anti-Freeze eats the plasticizer. It's in there it's just been absorbed by the Anti-Freeze would be my guess. I would never put that stuff in a loop.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiGiCiDAL*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> The average push fit fittings is around £1.75
> 1m of 12mm copper is around £6
> Benders £20
> Cutter £10
> Its cheaper than you might think.
> Im glad my guide helped you,Good luck with your build,if you want any specific help then please PM or post in the pipebending thread
> 
> 
> 
> The prices on the benders, cutter, and tubing is fine... and in the long run the fittings are fine too... but considering I just purchased and installed about $200 worth of Bitspower compressions in my system... I'd like to go ahead and use them for awhile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I mean c'mon Mate would you want this lady mad at you?
> 
> She might be a little miffed if she knew I posted this pic but after I explained why she'd forgive. I'd have to do penance but yea...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, if she can get past the fact that you apparently don't ever use your furnace (or at least not enough for her it appears) then I'm sure she's forgiving enough to let a 3-4 day build slide by unnoticed.
Click to expand...

Hahaha actually she's out there and it was 43* (46* here) out in the morning. If she's not running her heat I don't think we got anything ta worry about y'know? Might pack up my rig and take it to her place to give me something to do while she's at work. When she's not at work I think we'll be okay. without the furnace.







lol

Besides I doubt it would hurt my tubing anymore to be in a non heated environment. But yeah no I'm not gonna cart a $2500 rig onto the plane and have Homeland flip me guff about it.







Wish I could though. How cool would that be.







lol

~Ceadder


----------



## PTCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Did you have problems before this? If you did, did you flush your loop and how?


First time I've used Durelene. The loop was thoroughly flushed. I just filled the loop up with coolant (distilled+corrosion inhibitor) and let it run for a couple of days at varying speed. Then, drained and filled with coolant. No other chemicals; baking soda, vinegar, etc. If that's what you're asking.

Also, the little section which I cut earlier (seen in previous photo) has now become cloudy in just 24 hours. It's sorta like a white haze, no gunk or thick slimy stuff. All fine by me if it doesn't get worse or leave any nasty residue.


----------



## MrGrievous

Alright so here's my question i want to ask, with monsoon's newly released angled light port fittings how can i get some durelen tubing to get that fogged tubing look. I dont want to deal with any pasticizer problems so that's why im aiming to use the durelen, which seems promising. Any ideas peeps thanks in advance


----------



## MrGrievous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PTCB*
> 
> First time I've used Durelene. The loop was thoroughly flushed. I just filled the loop up with coolant (distilled+corrosion inhibitor) and let it run for a couple of days at varying speed. Then, drained and filled with coolant. No other chemicals; baking soda, vinegar, etc. If that's what you're asking.
> Also, the little section which I cut earlier (seen in previous photo) has now become cloudy in just 24 hours. It's sorta like a white haze, no gunk or thick slimy stuff. All fine by me if it doesn't get worse or leave any nasty residue.


Are you sure it's not causing anything to junk up?


----------



## PTCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrGrievous*
> 
> Are you sure it's not causing anything to junk up?


And clogging up the blocks? No idea as I have not opened them up, but the temps stay nice and cool like when I first installed them. The only visible residue besides in the tubing itself is the white stain in the reservoir. BTW, I had a look in the 200mm Phobya and it seems fine, nothing out of usual.


----------



## Kevdog

So I ran the "SYS SCRUBBER" for 3 days and all the white film was gone but the res looked like it had nonfat milk in it, I took everything apart even the block and rinsed everything off and put it all back together. I didn't see any sediment or gunk and its working great.

I am curious to see if the white film returns though.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klavins*
> 
> Distilled water + engine coolant + Primochill Utopia (all 3ml), 8 months old PrimoFlex LRT Pro tubing compared with brand new tubing.
> As can be seen, no discolouration or plasticizing, etc:


you use engine coolant?


----------



## XViper2

Engine coolant probably wouldn't do anything. Engine coolant is just a corrosion inhibitor.

I have no idea if it would do anything adverse to the blocks though. I'm not sure it would play nice with copper.


----------



## ForNever

I've used engine coolant+distilled 50/50. It doesn't have any problems at all, except you need some kind of growth inhibitor used with it, and it should be changed once a year, because it gets very corrosive over time.


----------



## kkorky

The more chemicals & additives etc that are used, the more variables are added into the equation, and what happens is that one loses sight of the target so to speak.

If you go through this thread and make a list of the various combinations of additives etc that have been used, we would have a quite a long list

-add to that the other variables such a type of tubing/tubing batch/contamination of loop when being built/varying types of coolants/anti freeze/ambient temps/quality of Distilled water/quality of SKC etc etc ad nauseum









The one stable variant is the tubing-and that should be of a certain manufacturing standard which enables us to use it without problems-it seems that the best one can hope for at the moment is tubing that may cloud to an extent, but that should not be mixed up with plastisizer deposits found within certain types of tubing which is a completely different story.

Imho-anti freeze(glycol etc) and the myriad of additives do not help the problem at hand-less is better.

Flushing the rig often(every two months) until we get better tubing prevents most problems-but the holy grail that is crystal clear tubing may still be a way off.

There will always be exceptions to the general rule-hence even some primochill users not having problems, BUT, one has to collate the info and look at the averages, and right now the results are quite conclusive


----------



## PTCB

If you want to know what's in what, look at its MSDS. It tells you most if not all the chemicals.

For example, Swiftech HydrX is simply a rebranded Valvoline Zerex (automotive coolant). Also there aren't that many chemicals in the corrosion inhibitor as you would think. You only need corrosion inhibitor(s), pH buffer, a dye, and surfactant (in some). Since it doesn't have antifreeze/antiboil property, there's no Glycol.

And, automotive coolant (antifreeze) is not the same with automotive corrosion inhibitor. Most coolants have anti corrosion property, while corrosion inhibitor doesn't contain Glycol (no antifreeze/antiboil property).

For people who forgot all about chemistry (me included), here's a nice read regarding coolant (2 part article). Link


----------



## feniks

most of older forumulas of coolants include copper/brass corrosion inhibitors, including (not limited to) Asian cars formula of Zerex (green color) and Toyota Long Life Coolant Concentrate (needs to be diluted to 50/50 with distilled water) which is cherry red color (NOT same as pre-diluted pink colored Super Long Life Coolant which doesn't carry copper corrosion inhibitors).

either way, those coolants are toxic and potentially deadly to household animals like cats/dogs that WILL get attracted to it due to sweet smell if you spill it. be careful.

just my 2 cents.


----------



## PTCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> most of older forumulas of coolants include copper/brass corrosion inhibitors, including (not limited to) Asian cars formula of Zerex (green color) and Toyota Long Life Coolant Concentrate (needs to be diluted to 50/50 with distilled water) which is cherry red color (NOT same as pre-diluted pink colored Super Long Life Coolant which doesn't carry copper corrosion inhibitors).
> either way, those coolants are toxic and potentially deadly to household animals like cats/dogs that WILL get attracted to it due to sweet smell if you spill it. be careful.
> just my 2 cents.


Didn't think about the toxicity, because mine is non-toxic, non-gylcol based. However even with gylcol, it doesn't necessary mean that it is toxic. It depends on what diol is in it. The most common: ethylene glycol, is toxic to people and animals. But, propylene glycol on the other hand is completely safe. Look at your shampoo, facial wash, or even canned food, I'm sure you'll find it in the third if not the first item you picked up.









You're right.







That's why I don't use automotive/engine coolant. A lot of premixed W/C coolants (e.g. XSPC EC6) contain ethylene glycol though. So, necessary steps should be taken when using them.


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PTCB*
> 
> Didn't think about the toxicity, because mine is non-toxic, non-gylcol based. However even with gylcol, it doesn't necessary mean that it is toxic. It depends on what diol is in it. The most common: ethylene glycol, is toxic to people and animals. But, propylene glycol on the other hand is completely safe. Look at your shampoo, facial wash, or even canned food, I'm sure you'll find it in the third if not the first item you picked up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why I don't use automotive/engine coolant. A lot of premixed W/C coolants (e.g. XSPC EC6) contain ethylene glycol though. So, necessary steps should be taken when using them.


yeah, I wouldn't bother with engine coolant for WC'ing ... really, what for .. we don't need anti-freeze (good down to like -40F depending on mixture) and surely we do not need the super high thermal threshold at like 220F of coolant temperature... again what for LOL!









plain distilled with silver kill coil works here perfectly fine


----------



## skyn3t

hey guys i need to catch up with this thread again, after 2 months off. Hope all the best for those had picked Durelene here cuz mine tubes going so strong







still clear and no signs of plasticizers, when the tube are dry it does show something in it but when it wet you cannot tell if you have any kind of cloud stuff on it. BRB short guys and lets keep this thread up


----------



## PTCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> ...when the tube are dry it does show *something* in it but when it wet you cannot tell if you have any kind of cloud stuff on it.


White haze?


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PTCB*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Did you have problems before this? If you did, did you flush your loop and how?
> 
> 
> 
> First time I've used Durelene. The loop was thoroughly flushed. I just filled the loop up with coolant (distilled+corrosion inhibitor) and let it run for a couple of days at varying speed. Then, drained and filled with coolant. No other chemicals; baking soda, vinegar, etc. If that's what you're asking.
> 
> Also, the little section which I cut earlier (seen in previous photo) has now become cloudy in just 24 hours. It's sorta like a white haze, no gunk or thick slimy stuff. All fine by me if it doesn't get worse or leave any nasty residue.
Click to expand...

The reason I asked was, it's a PITA to get that stuff out of the rads once it's in there. So if you had a problem before the Durelene, it could be left over stuff spreading from the rad. This is why that new hose turned so fast, it's not that hose turning, it's just getting coated from whats in there already.


----------



## PTCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> The reason I asked was, it's a PITA to get that stuff out of the rads once it's in there. So if you had a problem before the Durelene, it could be left over stuff spreading from the rad. This is why that new hose turned so fast, it's not that hose turning, it's just getting coated from whats in there already.


I see what you mean now. No, this is my new setup. Durelene is the only tubing used, and all parts are brand new. Now that you mentioned it, I'm beginning to worry about the Durelene leaving stuff behind in the loop as I'll be switching to Norprene soon.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PTCB*
> 
> White haze?


yes haze.
Durelene is very durable when it comes to cloud ( knowing haze or plasticizer ) so far so good this is one of the best cheap tubingm The resistance of this tube is very well in terms of water loop ( cooper, Plating and other metal ) that we have in our loop.


----------



## ionstorm66

I just got a mobo block, and changed my tubing out. The tubing that came with my XSPC Raystorm kit is completely hazed after less than 2 months. I replaced it all with black tubing. I pulled apart my block it is nice and shiny inside. The small section was left over from when I installed the kit, and went unused.


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Still not ready to ditch plastic?


----------



## 02ssei

That looks great. Your copper tubing thread is really tempting me. I figure if I can plumb hard brake lines, this can't be much different.


----------



## PTCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> Still not ready to ditch plastic?


I would if I could. So hard to find supply around here in NZ, unlike back in the US.










And wow, that build just keeps evolving, doesn't it?


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PTCB*
> 
> I would if I could. So hard to find supply around here in NZ, unlike back in the US.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And wow, that build just keeps evolving, doesn't it?


Im in the UK mate.

It has changed a little from the original design aint it?


----------



## PTCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> Im in the UK mate.
> It has changed a little from the original design aint it?


One VERY happy son.







Heading over to the log now.

Yeah, I know. I mean compared to when I was in the US where you can get stuff for your build easily.

Just to keep it on topic, here's another shot of 7/16" x 5/8" Durelene.



Good news is it's not hard to get rid off the haze. I rolled a section of the tubing a few times in hot water (was trying to straighten it), and it became clear again. So I guess whatever stuff that was in there isn't as bad as the Primochill's, which needs scrubbing/rubbing otherwise it won't come off.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PTCB*
> 
> One VERY happy son.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heading over to the log now.
> Yeah, I know. I mean compared to when I was in the US where you can get stuff for your build easily.
> Just to keep it on topic, here's another shot of 7/16" x 5/8" Durelene.
> 
> Good news is it's not hard to get rid off the haze. I rolled a section of the tubing a few times in hot water (was trying to straighten it), and it became clear again. So I guess whatever stuff that was in there isn't as bad as the Primochill's, which needs scrubbing/rubbing otherwise it won't come off.


This haze you only able to see when the tube is dry. I had posted is here before I had come a long way with Durelene.







post #1145 of 1746. *That's no such thing as Tubing scrubbing* this is *tihsllub*


----------



## PTCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> This haze you only able to see when the tube is dry. I had posted is here before I had come a long way with Durelene.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> post #1145 of 1746. *That's no such thing as Tubing scrubbing* this is *tihsllub*


Thanks for the link.









Yes, you basically can't see it or tell the difference when it's filled with water or coolant for that matter. I only found this out when I drained the loop to change my M/B CMOS battery.

How's yours holding up? Judging from the condition, I don't think it'll leave any nasty residue especially on the blocks. But who knows?


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PTCB*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> Still not ready to ditch plastic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would if I could. So hard to find supply around here in NZ, unlike back in the US.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And wow, that build just keeps evolving, doesn't it?
Click to expand...

It should easier, here in the US we normally use inch tubing and all the fittings are in metric. Finding metric tubing in the US means you will have to order it and it's not cheap but will last forever.


----------



## Homeronte

Hi guys, i was going to buy Primochill to replace my crappy and cloudy XSPC tubing and searching on the web i'm glad to find this thread

Now Using Durelene 7/16 5/8 for 2 weeks. I'm Really happy, No clouding and no signs of Plasticizing thanks to you.









PS: Advanced tubing was launched yesterday. I don't know why Primochill don't register here, i've seen them in another forums. I guess they don't have the guts to deal with this thread. Just really curious why they lowered the quality of a good tubing and then launch another tubing that works just as well as the oldPRO tubing of 2 years ago.

Sorry for my bad english.


----------



## NASzi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Homeronte*
> 
> Hi guys, i was going to buy Primochill to replace my crappy and cloudy XSPC tubing and searching on the web i'm glad to find this thread
> Now Using Durelene 7/16 5/8 for 2 weeks. I'm Really happy, No clouding and no signs of Plasticizing thanks to you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: Advanced tubing was launched yesterday. I don't know why Primochill don't register here, i've seen them in another forums. I guess they don't have the guts to deal with this thread. Just really curious why they lowered the quality of a good tubing and then launch another tubing that works just as well as the oldPRO tubing of 2 years ago.
> Sorry for my bad english.


They're scared to join this forum because they don't want to admit that their tubing sucks. They say, and I quote directly from their website, "95% of users will not experience an issue with the cloudiness/film. And what about the 5% who are? Well, we want ALL of our customers to be satisfied so we have come up with a couple of solutions." What's funny is there's someone always playing devil's advocate and I Have yet to see 1 person enter this thread and say that their tubing never clouded. I guess primochill's thoughts are let's just deny it until the end and while doing that, let's offer free system scrubber and design a new tubing that doesn't cloud and let's still pretend there never was a problem even though by developing new tubing and giving away free scrubber we're pretty much admitting that there is a problem with our ****. These guys just keep making themselves look worse and worse. O well, glad we all found a good solution, durelene, it's cheap, soft and clear so our fantastic mayhem's products look great for long periods of time, not just 2 weeks!

Here's the site I quoted from

http://www.primochill.com/blog/plasticizer-rumor-debunked/#comment-6


----------



## Ka0sX

Would like to know when the stores will be getting this tubing


----------



## walden emrys

Alright you guys, I have found 3 different types of Tygon tubing that might solve your problems.

Tygon 2375 - Ultra Chemical Resistance Tubing

http://emurdock.com/tygontubing/tygon-2075.pdf
http://emurdock.com/tygontubing/tygon%202375%20v%202075%20comparison.pdf

Tygon 2475 - High Purity Tubing

http://emurdock.com/tygontubing/tygon-2275.pdf
http://emurdock.com/tygontubing/2475_2275datasheetcomparison.pdf

Tygon S-50-HL - Medical and Surgical Tubing
http://emurdock.com/tygontubing/Tygon-S50HL-Medical-Tubing.pdf

The reason why there's two links on the first two is because the formula for the 2nd Generation of that specific tubing didn't change much from the first. The first link shows the properties that the 1st Generation and 2nd Generation share and the second link shows you what properties have changed, if any. The Medical and Surgical tubing does not have a 2nd Generation as far as I know. Also, I know that the first two are plasticizer free, but not sure of the Medical tubing. It would be nice if someone could test this out, I think somewhere earlier posted a tubing test bench, perhaps he could buy some and test it out. If someone does test it, please test it with Mayhems Pastel, their Pastel coolant was know to cause a greenish hue on Tygon tubing, but perhaps these formulas would yield different results. The reason I ask is because I'm going to have Mayhems Pastel put into a build of mine and it would be cool to know. Also, if the result is positive, please post on the Mayhem's Users Club http://www.overclock.net/t/1286896/mayhems-users-club/730.


----------



## captvizcenzo

This is how it looks after I added a Primochill System Scrubber into my CPU loop. The tubes do look crystal clear though.


----------



## Systemlord

Primochill slipped up on that last reply, "From the testing we performed we did not notice *the film ever breaking free* from the surface of the tube. So Primochill was able to replicate the film even though it never broke free from the surface of the tube. They should blame it on distilled water, a silver kill coil and copper/nickel plated water blocks! l It's all double talk!


----------



## nyk20z3

2 months now and my Feser UV acid green tubing is Plasticizer free.

Distilled water and Mayhems UV green concentrate with no kill coil added.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> 2 months now and my Feser UV acid green tubing is Plasticizer free.
> 
> Distilled water and Mayhems UV green concentrate with no kill coil added.


What's your average temps running 24/7?









~Ceadder


----------



## nyk20z3

The past day or 2 i have observed the following -

Top GPU - 29C

Bottom GPU - 25C

Cpu Cores - 27,29,29,28

Ambient temp outside is 52 but of course it will be warmer in my room.

I will be draining the loop shortly to add a Koolance bay res and new fluid so i will cut open some tubing and take pics then.


----------



## DiGiCiDAL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> The past day or 2 i have observed the following -
> Top GPU - 29C
> Bottom GPU - 25C
> Cpu Cores - 27,29,29,28
> Ambient temp outside is 52 but of course it will be warmer in my room.
> I will be draining the loop shortly to add a Koolance bay res and new fluid so i will cut open some tubing and take pics then.


I sure hope that outside temp is in Fahrenheit and not meant to be meaningfully compared to the PC temps otherwise you need to put out the fire first.









Do you know what either the water temp or the room temps are? It seems that the water getting over the 30C range is the issue... and with those temps it isn't (or not by much).

BTW... those are idle temps right?!? If your core temps are in the high twenties under load... one of us is doing something wrong.


----------



## Rakin

What tubing would you guys recommend except Feser? Amazon and Ebay only lists Feser 3/8ID 1/2OD tubing, I need either 7/16ID or 1/2ID ones. The latter is preferred (Thick Tubing <3). I want either Red tubing or Red coolant, whichever way is cheaper.
Edit: Forgot to mention, my XSPC tubing clouded up and got yellowish in 2 weeks.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rakin*
> 
> What tubing would you guys recommend except Feser? Amazon and Ebay only lists Feser 3/8ID 1/2OD tubing, I need either 7/16ID or 1/2ID ones. The latter is preferred (Thick Tubing <3). I want either Red tubing or Red coolant, whichever way is cheaper.
> Edit: Forgot to mention, my XSPC tubing clouded up and got yellowish in 2 weeks.
> Thanks in advance.


Coloured tubing is proving to be troublesome -imo go with clear tubing and a red Dye such as Mayhem's with Distilled water, or a red coolant such as Mayhem's X1.

Remember though that red dyes severely stain tubing.

Go here and read about the various types of coolants/dyes that Mayhem's make & what type of tubing he himself suggests that we use









http://www.overclock.net/t/1286896/mayhems-users-club

Where you live will play a role in what is the cheapest option-if you are in Europe go with Masteecleer clear tubing :

http://specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Masterkleer-Hi-Flex-716-ID---58-OD-11-16mm-Tubing--Clear-pid-5397.html

or if you are willing to spend more go for Tygon:

http://specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Tygon-R3603-716-ID---58-OD-11-16mm-Tubing--Clear-pid-5834.html

If you are in the States, you also have the choice of getting [email protected] that size :http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/dupvctu7id5o.html

Final note, it seems that from reading the various posts in this thread that no matter what you use or do, there will always be some discolouration of your tubing or a white 'haze' (this is not noticeable when there is fluid in your tubes), and does not affect your loop in anyway at all.

This should not be mixed up with plasticizer deposits from certain types of tubing, that actually deposit unwanted material into your loop, and in the long run may present you with problems.


----------



## Rakin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Coloured tubing is proving to be troublesome -imo go with clear tubing and a red Dye such as Mayhem's with Distilled water, or a red coolant such as Mayhem's X1.
> Remember though that red dyes severely stain tubing.
> Go here and read about the various types of coolants/dyes that Mayhem's make & what type of tubing he himself suggests that we use
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1286896/mayhems-users-club
> Where you live will play a role in what is the cheapest option-if you are in Europe go with Masteecleer clear tubing :
> http://specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Masterkleer-Hi-Flex-716-ID---58-OD-11-16mm-Tubing--Clear-pid-5397.html
> or if you are willing to spend more go for Tygon:
> http://specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Tygon-R3603-716-ID---58-OD-11-16mm-Tubing--Clear-pid-5834.html
> If you are in the States, you also have the choice of getting [email protected] that size :http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/dupvctu7id5o.html
> Final note, it seems that from reading the various posts in this thread that no matter what you use or do, there will always be some discolouration of your tubing or a white 'haze' (this is not noticeable when there is fluid in your tubes), and does not affect your loop in anyway at all.
> This should not be mixed up with plasticizer deposits from certain types of tubing, that actually deposit unwanted material into your loop, and in the long run may present you with problems.


Thank you. I'm going with either of the mentioned ones then. I think dyes look better than colored tubing anyway.








+Rep


----------



## nyk20z3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiGiCiDAL*
> 
> I sure hope that outside temp is in Fahrenheit and not meant to be meaningfully compared to the PC temps otherwise you need to put out the fire first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know what either the water temp or the room temps are? It seems that the water getting over the 30C range is the issue... and with those temps it isn't (or not by much).
> BTW... those are idle temps right?!? If your core temps are in the high twenties under load... one of us is doing something wrong.


Yes that's in Fahrenheit and its getting very cold here in NYC so my temps will drop even lower.

load temps on the cpu are around 40 to 45C at 3.9GHz since i brought the 3770K back to stock specs.


----------



## golfergolfer

Hello all I have been redoing my loop for my Bitfenix Prodigy MATX mod (log here







) and when I was taking the tubing off I came across a white residue on my fittings and I got concerned then I decided to cut open some tubing and was not happy with what I found... I was just wondering is this bad for your loop? It may have said this somewhere already but I missed it... Sorry. Could someone help me with this question?


----------



## nyk20z3

What brand tubing is that ?


----------



## Rakin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> Hello all I have been redoing my loop for my Bitfenix Prodigy MATX mod (log here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and when I was taking the tubing off I came across a white residue on my fittings and I got concerned then I decided to cut open some tubing and was not happy with what I found... I was just wondering is this bad for your loop? It may have said this somewhere already but I missed it... Sorry. Could someone help me with this question?


Which tubing is that?
Its not bad until it clogs up your components and restrict flow. But it looks damn ugly though.


----------



## golfergolfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> What brand tubing is that ?


This would be PrimoFlex Pro LRT UV Red Tubing I cant say I'm happy with it.... But the new tubing I bought for this build is the same stuff in white... I just wish I knew what it was like

EDIT: @ Rakin, Thanks that is very reassuring to know







Does it continuously get worse? or does it stop after a certain amount of time?


----------



## Rakin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> This would be PrimoFlex Pro LRT UV Red Tubing I cant say I'm happy with it.... But the new tubing I bought for this build is the same stuff in white... I just wish I knew what it was like
> EDIT: @ Rakin, Thanks that is very reassuring to know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does it continuously get worse? or does it stop after a certain amount of time?


From what I read, it spreads soon and clogs up your blocks, radiators and fittings. By any chance are you using a kill coil in your loop?


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> This would be PrimoFlex Pro LRT UV Red Tubing I cant say I'm happy with it.... But the new tubing I bought for this build is the same stuff in white... I just wish I knew what it was like
> EDIT: @ Rakin, Thanks that is very reassuring to know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does it continuously get worse? or does it stop after a certain amount of time?


Apart from obvious plasticizer residue in your tubes, you also seem to have a flaking problem with your Monsoon fitting(s) if they are still under warranty i would suggest that you RMA them.

The flaking residue from the fittings will present a much more serious problem right now(the plasticizer can be dealt with afterwards, but not too long afterwards







)

Failure to remove any items in your loop that are flaking will clog up your blocks and also may cause damage (not to mention clogging) to your pump-deal with this now mate.

Edit:do like i suggested to Rakin after you have dealt with your immediate problem, get clear tubing and dye-you will have much less of a plasticizer problem.

A prior reading of this thread will tell you what tubing is suitable, a few posts back i listed a few examples of clear tubing & dye/coolant suitable for your needs.
Dump the white Primochill!


----------



## golfergolfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rakin*
> 
> From what I read, it spreads soon and clogs up your blocks, radiators and fittings. By any chance are you using a kill coil in your loop?


Yup it is in side of my res, Should I be trying to look for other tubing or is this just a one off thing? A bad batch perhaps?


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> Yup it is in side of my res, Should I be trying to look for other tubing or is this just a one off thing? A bad batch perhaps?


It's all PrimoChill.
They have new tubing released on the 1st Nov, called Advanced which stops the growth.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> Hello all I have been redoing my loop for my Bitfenix Prodigy MATX mod (log here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and when I was taking the tubing off I came across a white residue on my fittings and I got concerned then I decided to cut open some tubing and was not happy with what I found... I was just wondering is this bad for your loop? It may have said this somewhere already but I missed it... Sorry. Could someone help me with this question?


This is what i have been doing here at this thread to convince everyone to stop using Primo chill tubing because this is not acceptable. This stuff can harm your components but wont wait to see it. My advice to you is using Durelene tubing Only in clear, if you want to be red get Meyhems Dye check out this thread you may like it. but please don't said you hate Dye before you check out this thread first.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> What brand tubing is that ?


Primo chill LRT Red with Cream cheese inside


----------



## Rakin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> Yup it is in side of my res, Should I be trying to look for other tubing or is this just a one off thing? A bad batch perhaps?


Read back a few pages and you'll see its a Primochill related issue mostly. So avoid Primo for now perhaps?


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> This would be PrimoFlex Pro LRT UV Red Tubing I cant say I'm happy with it.... But the new tubing I bought for this build is the same stuff in white... I just wish I knew what it was like
> EDIT: @ Rakin, Thanks that is very reassuring to know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does it continuously get worse? or does it stop after a certain amount of time?
> 
> 
> 
> Apart from obvious plasticizer residue in your tubes, *you also seem to have a flaking problem with your Monsoon fitting(s)* if they are still under warranty i would suggest that you RMA them.
> 
> The flaking residue from the fittings will present a much more serious problem right now(the plasticizer can be dealt with afterwards, but not too long afterwards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> Failure to remove any items in your loop that are flaking will clog up your blocks and also may cause damage (not to mention clogging) to your pump-deal with this now mate.
> 
> Edit:do like i suggested to Rakin after you have dealt with you immediate problem, get clear tubing and dye-you will have much less of a plasticizer problem.
> 
> A prior reading of this thread will tell you what tubing is suitable, i posted a few back a list of clear tubing & dye/coolant suitable for your needs.
> Dump the white Primochill!
Click to expand...

Not to start another topic within this topic...

This has me concerned. Having just gone with Monsoon fittings I do not like the sound of that.









~Ceadder


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rakin*
> 
> Read back a few pages and you'll see its a Primochill related issue mostly. So avoid Primo for now perhaps?


It's all that's available where I am, just ordered some clear to see the real effects, we have XSPC but that aint any better lol.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> It's all PrimoChill.
> They have new tubing released on the 1st Nov, called Advanced which stops the growth.


And you are sure of its abilities how??

Im not trying to flame you mate, but after so many posts, lets not make statements that are unproven, it wont help anyone.

Lets wait for the feedback before we start saying that 'x' type of tubing works or has solved the problem








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Not to start another topic within this topic...
> This has me concerned. Having just gone with Monsoon fittings I do not like the sound of that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


B Negative also noticed that prob with the fittings mate, if i recall correctly, he mentioned it in the gallery thread.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Did you belive that? I wish I can put my hands in this new brand tubing for testing purpose to make sure it work. I may send a PrimoChill email and ask them for a free sample for testing.


Good luck with that mate-i actually spoke to Brian (CEO of primochill) a while back via e mail, and he offered to make things right by me, over a week ago i contacted him requesting some of the new tubing as compensation for the old tubing-i am yet to have had a reply.
ill give him a few more weeks because i don't think that the new tubing is actually on the market as yet-if he still ignores me, ill post ALL the info that i have, the promises etc, and go from there









Patience young padawan









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> Well they have taking out the ingredient causing the clouding. I forgot what it was and i can't be bothered checking, it was the ingredient that made the tube be able to FLEX so good, so now it don't flex the same, but it fixes the clouding and the tubing is more clear.


PVC is the compound that you are referring to if im not mistaken-other companies also have plasticizer free tubing that still seems to have had problems-as i said, until its tested, by honest, non sponsored, non profit gaining everyday people like me and you, i will not sing its praises.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> It's all PrimoChill.
> They have new tubing released on the 1st Nov, called Advanced which stops the growth.


Did you belive that? I wish I can put my hands in this new brand tubing for testing purpose to make sure it work. I may send a PrimoChill email and ask them for a free sample for testing.


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Did you belive that? I wish I can put my hands in this new brand tubing for testing purpose to make sure it work. I may send a PrimoChill email and ask them for a free sample for testing.


Well they have taking out the ingredient causing the clouding. I forgot what it was and i can't be bothered checking, it was the ingredient that made the tube be able to FLEX so good, so now it don't flex the same, but it fixes the clouding and the tubing is more clear.


----------



## skyn3t

Swiftech and Monsoon fittings are the worse fitting for me in the market the material used for make those fittings are so cheap. the Swiftech fittings if you can bend the Edges with your fingers. The Paint in the Monsoon fittings is nice but paint and material is not durable. PS: i just have build two new system with Monsoon and Swiftech and I know what B Negative talk about


----------



## corysti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Not to start another topic within this topic...
> This has me concerned. Having just gone with Monsoon fittings I do not like the sound of that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


The chipping on the fittings is on the outer ring from the tool that you use. This will not cause any problems with the block as it doesn't come in contact of your acutally loop just the outer tubing. On my monsoons the only parts that ship is on the outer compression where you have to use the tool to tighten the compression down.


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Good luck with that mate-i actually spoke to Brian (CEO of primochill) a while back via e mail, and he offered to make things right by me, over a week ago i contacted him requesting some of the new tubing as compensation for the old tubing-i am yet to have had a reply.
> ill give him a few more weeks because i don't think that the new tubing is actually on the market as yet-if he still ignores me, ill post ALL the info that i have, the promises etc, and go from there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Patience young padawan


not surprised at all that Brian ignored you. he did the same to me after I sent him my experience with the sample of System Scrubber, zero replies, totally ignored me and the problem it caused (blue gel residue loosened by Sys Scrubber nearly clogged my Raystorm CPU block) ... I can email him again asking for a sample of new tubing, but somehow I don't really want to have anything to do with Primochill ever again. they suck and Brian is a dick.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *corysti*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Not to start another topic within this topic...
> This has me concerned. Having just gone with Monsoon fittings I do not like the sound of that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The chipping on the fittings is on the outer ring from the tool that you use. This will not cause any problems with the block as it doesn't come in contact of your acutally loop just the outer tubing. On my monsoons the only parts that ship is on the outer compression where you have to use the tool to tighten the compression down.
Click to expand...

Ummmm I think you're forgetting the inner portion when you use the tool to tighten the fitting to the block. If it chips there (pretty sure mine didn't though) then you surely will have a problem. I think as long as you're careful you shouldn't have an issue but the next time I use my tool, I will be putting a bit of tape on the ring and the fork to cover my azz and make absolutely sure. After putting a minor scratch in one of the collars trying to take it off a piece of tubing with a wrench (had absolutely no choice) I am well aware just how thin the plating is. As much as these babies cost there is no excuse for plating this thin. imho.
















I think that anyone who has LRT and can show that they are affected by this issue should get a coupon on their next purchase of PrimoChill tubing. Running straight distilled should not leach the plasticizer out of the tube under normal operating temperatures.









~Ceadder


----------



## golfergolfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Apart from obvious plasticizer residue in your tubes, you also seem to have a flaking problem with your Monsoon fitting(s) if they are still under warranty i would suggest that you RMA them.
> The flaking residue from the fittings will present a much more serious problem right now(the plasticizer can be dealt with afterwards, but not too long afterwards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> Failure to remove any items in your loop that are flaking will clog up your blocks and also may cause damage (not to mention clogging) to your pump-deal with this now mate.
> Edit:do like i suggested to Rakin after you have dealt with your immediate problem, get clear tubing and dye-you will have much less of a plasticizer problem.
> A prior reading of this thread will tell you what tubing is suitable, a few posts back i listed a few examples of clear tubing & dye/coolant suitable for your needs.
> Dump the white Primochill!


Well addressing the tubing problem first I think I will get rid of the white primochill even though I JUST bought it -.- and will move onto a clear tubing and dye. As for the monsoons I have not figured out why the paint came off of them it seems to be a problem with just one acetal top on my pump and them... The rest of the fittings are fine and I will have to do a very detailed look to make sure that none of it has ended up inside the loop.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> It's all PrimoChill.
> They have new tubing released on the 1st Nov, called Advanced which stops the growth.


hmmm sceptical about this...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> This is what i have been doing here at this thread to convince everyone to stop using Primo chill tubing because this is not acceptable. This stuff can harm your components but wont wait to see it. My advice to you is using Durelene tubing Only in clear, if you want to be red get Meyhems Dye check out this thread you may like it. but please don't said you hate Dye before you check out this thread first.
> Primo chill LRT Red with Cream cheese inside


I personally love dye! never used it before but like the look it gives much better. I agree that the Primochill is unacceptable from here on out. and I actually use PrimoChill LRT Cream Cheese Red for my tubing lol...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rakin*
> 
> Read back a few pages and you'll see its a Primochill related issue mostly. So avoid Primo for now perhaps?


Yup avoiding it will have to look a few pages back for sure
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Not to start another topic within this topic...
> This has me concerned. Having just gone with Monsoon fittings I do not like the sound of that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


I dont feel it is that big of a concern there is just something up with my acetal top I think... Because as I said it only came off there... (also responded to you in my build log about the hanging threads)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Swiftech and Monsoon fittings are the worse fitting for me in the market the material used for make those fittings are so cheap. the Swiftech fittings if you can bend the Edges with your fingers. The Paint in the Monsoon fittings is nice but paint and material is not durable. PS: i just have build two new system with Monsoon and Swiftech and I know what B Negative talk about


LOL well this is funny to me I just got some swiftech fittings as well >.< I dont find them that bad actually I cant bend the edges and for the money I paid for them I cant complain at all... As for the monsoons I would buy them again with out a doubt This is just one small problem I have had with them but I still love them.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *corysti*
> 
> The chipping on the fittings is on the outer ring from the tool that you use. This will not cause any problems with the block as it doesn't come in contact of your acutally loop just the outer tubing. On my monsoons the only parts that ship is on the outer compression where you have to use the tool to tighten the compression down.


There isnt actually any chipping at all on the outer ring of my monsoon's it is just the glare of the lighting that I took it in.

Thank you all for the help in a conclusion... NEVER buy PrimoChill tubing again, go with a quality clear tubing with dye. Monsoons are still great fittings and I will continue to use them and I would buy them again. But I am sad because now I have tubing that I have no use for...









EDIT: missed Ceadderman - I agree just have to be extra careful with these fittings thats all. And I HIGHLY agree with the coupon I am really quite annoyed about it right now.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *golfergolfer*
> 
> NEVER buy PrimoChill tubing again, go with a quality clear tubing with dye. Monsoons are still great fittings and I will continue to use them and I would buy them again. But I am sad because now I have tubing that I have no use for...


Thats what EBay is for


----------



## golfergolfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Thats what EBay is for


HAHAHA Well I think I will use the white stuff for planning and then use the good stuff for the actual loop









EDIT: Also which tubing should I use? Tygon 3603 or Tygon E-1000


----------



## corysti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Ummmm I think you're forgetting the inner portion when you use the tool to tighten the fitting to the block. If it chips there (pretty sure mine didn't though) then you surely will have a problem. I think as long as you're careful you shouldn't have an issue but the next time I use my tool, I will be putting a bit of tape on the ring and the fork to cover my azz and make absolutely sure. After putting a minor scratch in one of the collars trying to take it off a piece of tubing with a wrench (had absolutely no choice) I am well aware just how thin the plating is. As much as these babies cost there is no excuse for plating this thin. imho.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think that anyone who has LRT and can show that they are affected by this issue should get a coupon on their next purchase of PrimoChill tubing. Running straight distilled should not leach the plasticizer out of the tube under normal operating temperatures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Yea thats true... But i didn't have any chipping on the actual barb the tool worked fine there but the outer ring is think plating which is not acceptable and the tool just doesn't sit right.


----------



## XViper2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> This is what i have been doing here at this thread to convince everyone to stop using Primo chill tubing because this is not acceptable. This stuff can harm your components but wont wait to see it. My advice to you is using Durelene tubing Only in clear, if you want to be red get Meyhems Dye check out this thread you may like it. but please don't said you hate Dye before you check out this thread first.
> Primo chill LRT Red with Cream cheese inside


How long did you run this before it started happening? I have the same tubing. I'm switching the tubing out at the end of the month though.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *corysti*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Ummmm I think you're forgetting the inner portion when you use the tool to tighten the fitting to the block. If it chips there (pretty sure mine didn't though) then you surely will have a problem. I think as long as you're careful you shouldn't have an issue but the next time I use my tool, I will be putting a bit of tape on the ring and the fork to cover my azz and make absolutely sure. After putting a minor scratch in one of the collars trying to take it off a piece of tubing with a wrench (had absolutely no choice) I am well aware just how thin the plating is. As much as these babies cost there is no excuse for plating this thin. imho.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think that anyone who has LRT and can show that they are affected by this issue should get a coupon on their next purchase of PrimoChill tubing. Running straight distilled should not leach the plasticizer out of the tube under normal operating temperatures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea thats true... But i didn't have any chipping on the actual barb the tool worked fine there but the outer ring is think plating which is not acceptable and the tool just doesn't sit right.
Click to expand...

Yeah I was a bit disappointed with the depth of the notches and the flimsiness of the tool. I can't say it's actually flimsy but it definitely felt like it bent when I had to apply torque to get the collars to mate up with the threads. There really is nothing you can do about that either. I think that the tool should be a tad thicker and the notches a touch wider with a little more depth to them too. Otherwise I really like them. Just hoping that my barbs don't flake or peel given the thinness of the plating.









~Ceadder


----------



## 02ssei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *corysti*
> 
> The chipping on the fittings is on the outer ring from the tool that you use. This will not cause any problems with the block as it doesn't come in contact of your acutally loop just the outer tubing. On my monsoons the only parts that ship is on the outer compression where you have to use the tool to tighten the compression down.


Maybe it varies with color, but my black monsoons didn't even chip there. I tightened them as much as I could and had no issues. I was a little gentle with how I put the tool in the notches, but I thought that was just common sense.


----------



## captvizcenzo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> Well they have taking out the ingredient causing the clouding. I forgot what it was and i can't be bothered checking, it was the ingredient that made the tube be able to FLEX so good, so now it don't flex the same, but it fixes the clouding and the tubing is more clear.


I guess the system scrubber might remove the ingredient too. My Primochill tubing feels stiffer now. But they are crystal clear, even clearer than the new ones.


----------



## ShadoX

Quick question, whats XSPC tubing like?

Right now all i've really got access too is Primo (Staying away) and XSPC.
Can't get Masterkleer atm cause its sold out with no ETA in my size.

I've got old Primo white tubing which really has 0 issues (been reusing it for like 1,5years, only now has it started to get an ever so slight greenish tinge to it on the inside) but moving to 1/2" Bitspower compression fittings with 1/.2" tube (and was going to get Mayhems Sunset Yellow Pastel).

XSPC got the same issues? (again not a big issue if it clouds slightly when its got Yellow Pastel running through it, but if its going to get a nasty white deposit all through it then might cause blockages and the likes, i best avoid it







)

Cheers


----------



## ea3ot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> not surprised at all that Brian ignored you. he did the same to me after I sent him my experience with the sample of System Scrubber, zero replies, totally ignored me and the problem it caused (blue gel residue loosened by Sys Scrubber nearly clogged my Raystorm CPU block) ... I can email him again asking for a sample of new tubing, but somehow I don't really want to have anything to do with Primochill ever again. they suck and Brian is a dick.


You say is better d,ont use that system Scrubber and forget about it ???


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShadoX*
> 
> Quick question, whats XSPC tubing like?
> Right now all i've really got access too is Primo (Staying away) and XSPC.
> Can't get Masterkleer atm cause its sold out with no ETA in my size.
> I've got old Primo white tubing which really has 0 issues (been reusing it for like 1,5years, only now has it started to get an ever so slight greenish tinge to it on the inside) but moving to 1/2" Bitspower compression fittings with 1/.2" tube (and was going to get Mayhems Sunset Yellow Pastel).
> XSPC got the same issues? (again not a big issue if it clouds slightly when its got Yellow Pastel running through it, but if its going to get a nasty white deposit all through it then might cause blockages and the likes, i best avoid it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> Cheers


Guessing PCCG?
XSPC is the same crap, they have koolance tubing now but am skeptical like all tubing, anybody tried koolance?


----------



## ShadoX

yeah PCCG (And the KoolRoom, though it was out of MasterKleer, only Primo and yeah PCCG has Koolance, only 3/8 in full clear, and 1/2" in Clear/UV Blue (Which i would have guessed would have a slight hue to it like all the other clear UV tubes?)

I'm just gonna try XSPC as i don't really have any option (needed to put my order in tonight







), i'll swap it out to something better if it turns to crap few months down the road, hopefully theres some decent tubing around by then









Though the mayhems post sez it's fine with XSPC, its really just the clouding/deposit issue, so i guess i'll see how bad it really is when its running yellow pastel through it, might not be noticable till its drained, inwhich case visually it doesn't matter, just as long as that white crap doesn't build up and shift into my blocks :O (I'll clean it/replace it before then)


----------



## corysti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> Maybe it varies with color, but my black monsoons didn't even chip there. I tightened them as much as I could and had no issues. I was a little gentle with how I put the tool in the notches, but I thought that was just common sense.


Well the other colors are actually anodized while the black monsoons are probably powdercoated. I mean as soon as you would put any pressure on the tool the tool would move out of the notches and scrap the outer ring.

One thing I noticed is that the tubing is pretty tight on the bars by itself so I finally just screw the rings on the bar by hand till it got tight then I just turned it one time with the wrench. At first I was trying to screw the ring all the way down on every thread but it just gets too tight on my tubing so I did what i said earlier. So far so good the loop has been running 48 hours straight and no leaks yet I hope.


----------



## golfergolfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XViper2*
> 
> How long did you run this before it started happening? I have the same tubing. I'm switching the tubing out at the end of the month though.


My loop was filled and completed on July 3, 2012 When did the actual plasticizer stuff start happening? I dont know


----------



## nyk20z3

I am going out on a limb and claiming Feser tubing is plasticizer free.

I honestly think i escalated the plasticizing with my previous Primochill tubing because i was using a killcoil in addition to Mayhems concentrate. Mayhems concentrate already contains biocides and inhibitors so the killcoil was not needed.


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ea3ot*
> 
> You say is better d,ont use that system Scrubber and forget about it ???


and you think WHY I say don't use the sys scrubber, huh? I used it long time ago, just repeating my experience if anybody missed it, doh!


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> I am going out on a limb and claiming Feser tubing is plasticizer free.
> 
> I honestly think i escalated the plasticizing with my previous Primochill tubing because i was using a killcoil in addition to Mayhems concentrate. Mayhems concentrate already contains biocides and inhibitors so the killcoil was not needed.


I can honestly say that Kill Coil has nothing to do with the Plasticizing issue. Cause I don't use any additives at all and my PrimoChill LRT is leaching right now. PC says that it's because of temperatures over 30c which imho is bunk cause I don't know anyone running a water cooling system that runs it to be Idle at 24/7.

Personally I'm starting to think this is an intentional result to drive customers to their new tubing. Not to mention that I think that it's brought on by the embedded BioCides that are used in the manufacture of the tubing.









~Ceadder


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> Well they have taking out the ingredient causing the clouding. I forgot what it was and i can't be bothered checking, it was the ingredient that made the tube be able to FLEX so good, so now it don't flex the same, but it fixes the clouding and the tubing is more clear.


You gotta be kidding, right? What's the name of this thread?


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> You gotta be kidding, right? What's the name of this thread?


i was asking on the primochill fb page and he was like blah blah blah its not jist our product etc.. etc...
then he said the tubing has taken out the flex ingredient so it dont flex the same.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *captvizcenzo*
> 
> I guess the system scrubber might remove the ingredient too. My Primochill tubing feels stiffer now. But they are crystal clear, even clearer than the new ones.


My dad used to be a dentist (used to be cause he passed away) and he used to have many patients who came to have their teeth whitened-he always warned them though, that although their teeth will be whiter in colour, whitening weakens the tooth enamel

-i'd stick my head on a block and say that the scrubber also weakens the tubing(sure it looks better for 2 secs)- apart from what it's corrosive qualities do to the rest of the system









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShadoX*
> 
> Quick question, whats XSPC tubing like?
> Right now all i've really got access too is Primo (Staying away) and XSPC.
> Can't get Masterkleer atm cause its sold out with no ETA in my size.
> I've got old Primo white tubing which really has 0 issues (been reusing it for like 1,5years, only now has it started to get an ever so slight greenish tinge to it on the inside) but moving to 1/2" Bitspower compression fittings with 1/.2" tube (and was going to get Mayhems Sunset Yellow Pastel).
> XSPC got the same issues? (again not a big issue if it clouds slightly when its got Yellow Pastel running through it, but if its going to get a nasty white deposit all through it then might cause blockages and the likes, i best avoid it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> Cheers


If you are going to use a particular Mayhem's product, just look at the post and see what tubing Mick suggests for use with whichever one of his products you are going to get-i trust his feedback










Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> i was asking on the primochill fb page and he was like blah blah blah its not just our product etc.. etc...
> then he said the tubing has taken out the flex ingredient so it dont flex the same.


He said " its not just our product etc.. etc...!?"

i thought he said that their product had no problems......(im being sarcastic







)

Lol! this is a true comedy of errors, not to mention an insult to past customers.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> Lol! this is a true comedy of errors, *not to mention an insult to past customers*.


You got that right.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> You gotta be kidding, right? What's the name of this thread?
> 
> 
> 
> i was asking on the primochill fb page and he was like blah blah blah its not jist our product etc.. etc...
> then he said the tubing has taken out the flex ingredient so it dont flex the same.
Click to expand...

So he essentially said that their new stuff is *plasticizer* free right?









~Ceadder


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> So he essentially said that their new stuff is *plasticizer* free right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


So much for new tubing technology Ceader lol!


----------



## Axehand

Any word when the advanced tubing from primochill will be available from retailers? Suppose to be released on the 1st of November its now the 5th...


----------



## Ka0sX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axehand*
> 
> Any word when the advanced tubing from primochill will be available from retailers? Suppose to be released on the 1st of November its now the 5th...


I have been wondering the same thing released on the 5th and still no sign of it for sale any where


----------



## ShadoX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> If you are going to use a particular Mayhem's product, just look at the post and see what tubing Mick suggests for use with whichever one of his products you are going to get-i trust his feedback


Yeah XSPC is on his list, so is Masterkleer and a couple others, was more wondering how bad XSPC tubing when it comes to the plasticizer....Guess i'll find out soon cause its on its way


----------



## DiGiCiDAL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShadoX*
> 
> Yeah XSPC is on his list, so is Masterkleer and a couple others, was more wondering how bad XSPC tubing when it comes to the plasticizer....Guess i'll find out soon cause its on its way


I have to throw a few adjustments into my loop at the moment but soon I'll be able to comment on the XSPC tubing. I can say that it must have plenty of plasticizer in it... cuz it flexes identically (in fact, I'm hard pressed to find any difference in feel, look, etc.) however, in my case the decision was somewhat of a strategic one. Let me explain - although I read plenty of negative opinions regarding XSPC tubing, not nearly as many as Primochill but plenty still, I selected the XSPC Raystorm as my CPU block of choice (for performance reasons) and XSPC Razor blocks for my GPUs (for cost/appearance reasons) ... even if some of the plasticizer leeches it's not likely to significantly affect my RADs. So that means that at least 50% of the cost of my loop is in XSPC products. If I'm using their tubing and have a problem significant enough to damage their blocks... the largest scapegoat is their product too.







Not that I would expect them to suddenly ship me out all new stuff if I did have a problem... but I would definitely expect them to listen to my complaints and potentially try some simple remediation if expedient.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> i was asking on the primochill fb page and he was like blah blah blah its not jist our product etc.. etc...
> then he said the tubing has taken out the flex ingredient so it dont flex the same.


Socks... I think Capt Proton was referring to the fact that you keep saying "flex ingredient or whatever" when the title of the thread says "Plasticizer" in it (as well as about 200 individual posts) - therefore it is pretty reasonable to assume that despite saying something to that effect... you obviously have not read through this entire thread - or at least not read with _comprehension_.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShadoX*
> 
> Yeah XSPC is on his list, so is Masterkleer and a couple others, was more wondering how bad XSPC tubing when it comes to the plasticizer....Guess i'll find out soon cause its on its way


Good luck mate, hey maybe using coolants or pastels will lessen the effect on your tubing-i hope so


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiGiCiDAL*
> 
> I have to throw a few adjustments into my loop at the moment but soon I'll be able to comment on the XSPC tubing. I can say that it must have plenty of plasticizer in it... cuz it flexes identically (in fact, I'm hard pressed to find any difference in feel, look, etc.) however, in my case the decision was somewhat of a strategic one. Let me explain - although I read plenty of negative opinions regarding XSPC tubing, not nearly as many as Primochill but plenty still, I selected the XSPC Raystorm as my CPU block of choice (for performance reasons) and XSPC Razor blocks for my GPUs (for cost/appearance reasons) ... even if some of the plasticizer leeches it's not likely to significantly affect my RADs. So that means that at least 50% of the cost of my loop is in XSPC products. If I'm using their tubing and have a problem significant enough to damage their blocks... the largest scapegoat is their product too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not that I would expect them to suddenly ship me out all new stuff if I did have a problem... but I would definitely expect them to listen to my complaints and potentially try some simple remediation if expedient.
> Socks... I think Capt Proton was referring to the fact that you keep saying "flex ingredient or whatever" when the title of the thread says "Plasticizer" in it (as well as about 200 individual posts) - therefore it is pretty reasonable to assume that despite saying something to that effect... you obviously have not read through this entire thread - or at least not read with _comprehension_.


Actually i have been reading it i'm just saying what the spokes person told me.
He stated "It it was plasticizer it would not just come off as seen with the system scrubber.
I know what it is, but i'm just relaying what he told me.


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> Actually i have been reading it i'm just saying what the spokes person told me.
> He stated "It it was plasticizer it would not just come off as seen with the system scrubber.
> I know what it is, but i'm just relaying what he told me.


The point was in reference to this part of your post

"I forgot what it was and i can't be bothered checking, it was the ingredient that made the tube be able to FLEX so good"

Stating that you can't remember when it is the first word in the title of this whole thread, and can't be bothered checking just seems a little incongruous if you are posting seriously.

Just sayin.


----------



## Ceadderman

Not to inject chaos into an already chaotic conversation, nor animosity, but ...

can we shave this C-hair any finer cause I can still see it.









~Ceadder


----------



## DiGiCiDAL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Not to inject chaos into an already chaotic conversation, nor animosity, but ...
> can we shave this C-hair any finer cause I can still see it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Probably need to wax it... Nair chafes I'm told.


----------



## Squallalaha

update, until i find a tubing to use, need to keep this crap tubing going. Primochill, LRT Blue.

I cleaned it once with brush (made for fish tanks filter tube) and after another month of use, it doesnt seem to return. See blow:

Left =

Old, uncleaned tube film in it.
Middle =

Cleaned tube a month ago and run since.
Right =

Brand new


----------



## XViper2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Squallalaha*
> 
> update, until i find a tubing to use, need to keep this crap tubing going. Primochill, LRT Blue.
> I cleaned it once with brush (made for fish tanks filter tube) and after another month of use, it doesnt seem to return. See blow:
> Left =
> 
> Old, uncleaned tube film in it.
> Middle =
> 
> Cleaned tube a month ago and run since.
> Right =
> 
> Brand new


That doesn't look too bad. I too only have duralene as an alternative.


----------



## PTCB

Anyone with Norprene? I'd like hear how it fares compared to other tubings.


----------



## nyk20z3

I am gutting my Feser acid green tubing since i will be using Mayhems Mint Green Pastel shortly and i want everything to match.

I want the best clear tubing i can get -

Tygon and which model ?

Or Durelene ?


----------



## Lee17

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> I am gutting my Feser acid green tubing since i will be using Mayhems Mint Green Pastel shortly and i want everything to match.
> I want the best clear tubing i can get -
> Tygon and which model ?
> Or Durelene ?


After all the reading in this thread, the only tubing that have the lowest chance to leach plasticizer in a short period of time is the Durelene.

I hade few tygon R-3603 and... it was horrible. I manage to keep it for almost a year but when I unmounted my block, I found a surprise









I have read that only one person in all this thread had plasticizer leach so Durelene still in the first position IMO.

Also, I have and idea after reading many post here, the temperature of the water seem to be a big factor and it look like to be logic.

Anyway, TL;DR, Durelene for now









Lee17


----------



## nyk20z3

TY sir.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lee17*
> 
> After all the reading in this thread, the only tubing that have the lowest chance to leach plasticizer in a short period of time is the Durelene.
> I hade few tygon R-3603 and... it was horrible. I manage to keep it for almost a year but when I unmounted my block, I found a surprise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have read that only one person in all this thread had plasticizer leach so Durelene still in the first position IMO.
> Also, I have and idea after reading many post here, the temperature of the water seem to be a big factor and it look like to be logic.
> Anyway, TL;DR, Durelene for now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee17


Well i hope that the temp variable does not play a major role, because most systems on this planet idle at or around the 30c mark that was stated as being the threshold.

If temp is one of the major factors, then that shows gross lack of foresight & incompetence on the part of tubing manufacturers-what were they thinking??

Still no reply from Brian(i re contacted him on the 26th of October)@ Primochill vis a vis my request to honour his offer to 'put the situation right' and replace the two sets of faulty LRT Pro tubing i had previously purchased with the new 'Advanced' tubing.............


----------



## 02ssei

I should have some of the advanced LRT tubing on Thursday. I have the day off so I plan on rearranging my loop a bit and getting some pictures and installing it.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> I should have some of the advanced LRT tubing on Thursday. I have the day off so I plan on rearranging my loop a bit and getting some pictures and installing it.


Where did you get it from?

You might want to provide the info here please seeing that other people have expressed interest in trying it out


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Lee17*
> 
> After all the reading in this thread, the only tubing that have the lowest chance to leach plasticizer in a short period of time is the Durelene.
> I hade few tygon R-3603 and... it was horrible. I manage to keep it for almost a year but when I unmounted my block, I found a surprise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have read that only one person in all this thread had plasticizer leach so Durelene still in the first position IMO.
> Also, I have and idea after reading many post here, the temperature of the water seem to be a big factor and it look like to be logic.
> Anyway, TL;DR, Durelene for now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee17
> 
> 
> 
> Well i hope that the temp variable does not play a major role, because most systems on this planet idle at or around the 30c mark that was stated as being the threshold.
> 
> If temp is one of the major factors, then that shows gross lack of foresight & incompetence on the part of tubing manufacturers-what were they thinking??
> 
> Still no reply from Brian(i re contacted him on the 26th of October)@ Primochill vis a vis my request to honour his offer to 'put the situation right' and replace the two sets of faulty LRT Pro tubing i had previously purchased with the new 'Advanced' tubing.............
Click to expand...

They are thinking most people that buy their tubing are not using it for a PC, most of the tubing we buy is made for labs and the food industry. That is one reason Primo tubing became so popular, they had tubing made for water cooling PC's not some other tubing made for what ever that fit out needs.


----------



## audioxbliss

Wonderful, more stuff I have to watch out for when I disassemble my rig. Any recommendations on how to figure out if my white tubing has plasticizer issues?


----------



## wermad

build up is more notable but my Mayhems Deep blue and distilled are still the same and purrtty color









I'm hearing lots of buzz on Duralene. Might place an order if I end up ordering my fittings from swc.com.


----------



## Squallalaha

looking at the used inside, you can see a difference in the white (say near a fitting, the unscathed fitting area, will be much brighter/whiter than the area of the tube that was only in contact with the fluid.

it will be an off-white/eggshell white color.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

So Durelene vs. Masterkleer: Which do we think is better? I hear a lot of Durelene supporters but I've read all over the Internet masterkleer is great.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NinjaSushi2*
> 
> So Durelene vs. Masterkleer: Which do we think is better? I hear a lot of Durelene supporters but I've read all over the Internet masterkleer is great.


Duralene costs less than Masterkleer so honestly I would have to vote with my wallet on the subject.









~Ceadder


----------



## ceteris

Just bought 30ft of Durelene. Hope it pans out. Too lazy to read through all the posts to figure out what works now lol

The 2 remaining packages of Primochill I'll keep sitting around in case I need to hang myself in the future


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *NinjaSushi2*
> 
> So Durelene vs. Masterkleer: Which do we think is better? I hear a lot of Durelene supporters but I've read all over the Internet masterkleer is great.
> 
> 
> 
> Duralene costs less than Masterkleer so honestly I would have to vote with my wallet on the subject.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
Click to expand...

Do which makes better clear tubing then or does it not matter and only money wise. My wallet votes durelene in that case.


----------



## 02ssei

So I work nights and overslept, but I got my primochill advanced tubing from primochill today. Pics will go up later, but it pretty much looks like clear tubing. The one thing I notice is it is a lot stiffer than the Pro LRT, but can still make very tight bends. I would say its even more kink resistant than the Pro LRT.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> So I work nights and overslept, but I got my primochill advanced tubing from primochill today. Pics will go up later, but it pretty much looks like clear tubing. The one thing I notice is it is a lot stiffer than the Pro LRT, but can still make very tight bends. I would say its even more kink resistant than the Pro LRT.


Who is carrying it and do they have White?









@sushi... Dude go with Duralene. More people here have it than MasterKleer. Go with the more reputable tubing. If nothing else it's cheap enough that it's not gonna matter too much if you have to replace it.









~Ceadder


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> @sushi... Dude go with Duralene. More people here have it than MasterKleer. Go with the more reputable tubing. If nothing else it's cheap enough that it's not gonna matter too much if you have to replace it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


True dat homie. Tru dat.

~Sushi


----------



## 02ssei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Who is carrying it and do they have White?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @sushi... Dude go with Duralene. More people here have it than MasterKleer. Go with the more reputable tubing. If nothing else it's cheap enough that it's not gonna matter too much if you have to replace it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


I don't know if retailers have it yet but it came in a 10ft package with an advanced logo on it so I would guess it's just a matter of time. Clear only for now, and colors after the first of the year. I have dinner plans but am hoping to drain my loop and swap in the new tubing later tonight.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> I don't know if retailers have it yet but it came in a 10ft package with an advanced logo on it so I would guess it's just a matter of time. Clear only for now, and colors after the first of the year. I have dinner plans but am hoping to drain my loop and swap in the new tubing later tonight.


This may sound a bit impolite, so excuse me in advance, but how did you come across the tubing?

Do you have connections with Primochill?

There MUST be some sort of link there if you have it(more than likely) before the actual retailers -alarm bells going off for the time being


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> I don't know if retailers have it yet but it came in a 10ft package with an advanced logo on it so I would guess it's just a matter of time. Clear only for now, and colors after the first of the year. I have dinner plans but am hoping to drain my loop and swap in the new tubing later tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> This may sound a bit impolite, so excuse me in advance, but how did you come across the tubing?
> 
> Do you have connections with Primochill?
> 
> There MUST be some sort of link there if you have it(more than likely) before the actual retailers -alarm bells going off for the time being
Click to expand...

Yeah I wonder too but let's give TBOD here. Could be connections. Could be they sent him some to replace bad LRT. Any number of scenarios are running through my head at the moment. Been a long day for me though. Drama nothin but drama today. My brain is screaming for some peace and quiet.







lol

~Ceadder


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> I don't know if retailers have it yet but it came in a 10ft package with an advanced logo on it so I would guess it's just a matter of time. *Clear only for now, and colors after the first of the year*. I have dinner plans but am hoping to drain my loop and swap in the new tubing later tonight.


Oh no, that pushes my water cooling build into 2013!!









I refuse to use clear tubing and/or dyes in my loop, oh well I'll just buy my new 23-27" monitor now rather than later.

*Updated*

Found this on Primochill's website,
Quote:


> *Available December 2012
> Brilliant UV Blue
> Bloodshed Red
> Elegant White
> Onyx Black*


----------



## Engelskhorn

Since this is an ongoing an pretty annoying issue, I decided that I wanted to try an analyze this a little deeper.

To do so I need data, which is why I would like everyone to send an e-mail with the following data to: [email protected]

1: is your tube slightly clouded, clouded, clouded to the point where it fully blocks vision or not clouded.
2: which metals are present in your loop (not from biocide, so no silver from killcoil or cobber from Nuke)
3: What material do your resoir consist of: acryl, something else, or you dont use one.
4: what kind of tube do you use: plz state as detailed as possible including brand, size, subtype and aproximate date of purchase.
5: what coolant do you use
6: which biocide do you use (list killcoils here)
7: which dyes do you use
8: any other additives
9: for how long have the system been running with the current tubes
10: average ambient temperature in the room where the Pc is
11: water temp during runtime
12: flushing method: tap water, tap water then distilled, tap + distilled with weak acid (vinegar or citric acid), filtered water, no flushing
13: did you reuse any parts from a previous build (state which)
14: corrosion: any signs of corrosion
15: Ph of coolant: no data, below 6, 6 to 8, above 8.

plz submit data even if you dont have any issues, otherwise this wont show anything

if you have suggestions for other things we might need to include, plz feel free to suggest them.

plz excuse my lacking english, i am not a native speaker.


----------



## 02ssei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Yeah I wonder too but let's give TBOD here. Could be connections. Could be they sent him some to replace bad LRT. Any number of scenarios are running through my head at the moment. Been a long day for me though. Drama nothin but drama today. My brain is screaming for some peace and quiet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol
> ~Ceadder


It is a replacement for bad LRT. I just submitted a support ticket and the customer support lady was pretty easy to work with. I was surprised myself as so many people had reported poor service with them in the past. I just need to figure out if I want to do white or blue mayhems dye. So much to do on my build right now and seems like I have no time.


----------



## Squallalaha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> It is a replacement for bad LRT. I just submitted a support ticket and the customer support lady was pretty easy to work with. I was surprised myself as so many people had reported poor service with them in the past. I just need to figure out if I want to do white or blue mayhems dye. So much to do on my build right now and seems like I have no time.


How were you able to get a replacement. As in, did they have you use the Scrubber First? I do NOT want to use the scrubber period.

If not, did you refuse to use the scrubber and demand a replacement?

Please helps others like me by providing more information.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## XViper2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> It is a replacement for bad LRT. I just submitted a support ticket and the customer support lady was pretty easy to work with. I was surprised myself as so many people had reported poor service with them in the past. I just need to figure out if I want to do white or blue mayhems dye. So much to do on my build right now and seems like I have no time.


I actually want to see what happens with this new tubing. I also refuse to use any dyes.


----------



## hammerforged

Thanks to *02ssei* I just got done talking to Primochill. They are going to send me a replacement. Hopefully this stuff is better!


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Squallalaha*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> It is a replacement for bad LRT. I just submitted a support ticket and the customer support lady was pretty easy to work with. I was surprised myself as so many people had reported poor service with them in the past. I just need to figure out if I want to do white or blue mayhems dye. So much to do on my build right now and seems like I have no time.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How were you able to get a replacement. As in, did they have you use the Scrubber First? I do NOT want to use the scrubber period.
> 
> If not, did you refuse to use the scrubber and demand a replacement?
> 
> Please helps others like me by providing more information.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

This. Gonna suck if I have to run this LRT until I can get a better tubing from them to replace this stuff.









~Ceadder


----------



## hammerforged

In my post above I simply told them that I had already replaced the tubing and could not use the scrubber. Said it should be shipping out soon. Just provided proof of purchase and a picture of the problem.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## 02ssei

Jennifer was very helpful. I think it helped that I had purchased so recently.


----------



## Squallalaha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammerforged*
> 
> In my post above I simply told them that I had already replaced the tubing and could not use the scrubber. Said it should be shipping out soon. Just provided proof of purchase and a picture of the problem.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Great! Thanks for this.


----------



## sticks435

I bought some Durelene about 3 months ago and it has some haze to it like the on poster showed some pages back. Happened maybe a month after, but I did follow somebody's suggestion and put dishsoap in my res to try and get the bubbles out so that might be why, left over soap residue. I will probably hold out on cleaning my loop until Dec, to see how the new Advanced tubing does.


----------



## 02ssei

Loop is rearranged and leak testing now. Not a huge fan of clear tubing but I think it would look good with some of the mayhems UV blue, or maybe pastels.


----------



## ceteris

Just got the Durelene tubing and I'm relieved its just as soft and flexible as the Primochill I got. Using it to flush out my 560 rads atm and am very excited to get a loop started with them.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

What tool is that you use to flush them?


----------



## ceteris

Its a system I bit off lazyman from West Coast Mods on 



.

Basically you get a TotalPond Submersible Fountain Pump (500 GPH version), GE Water Filter (model no. GXWH20S), plastic fittings (forgot what brand I think Watts) and a Homer's All-Purpose Bucket from Home Depot. I used some Koolance QDC's, Fittings and Hose Clamps along with it. Click on my Bored Log to see it more in detail.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ceteris*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just got the Durelene tubing and I'm relieved its just as soft and flexible as the Primochill I got. Using it to flush out my 560 rads atm and am very excited to get a loop started with them.


Can you please tell me the part number/brand of the the plastic part that threads into the GE Water Filter? What section was it in?

I was at The Home Depot today and had to forget about the whole thing because I couldn't find anything that was the correct size for the GE Water Filter! I didn't get much help from the people that work there, they are clueless and know next to nothing!


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> It is a replacement for bad LRT. I just submitted a support ticket and the customer support lady was pretty easy to work with. I was surprised myself as so many people had reported poor service with them in the past. I just need to figure out if I want to do white or blue mayhems dye. So much to do on my build right now and seems like I have no time.


Brian must like you ... wondering why ... Primochill shunned me and ignores my emails since a few weeks. I guess Brain the Liar didn't like my description of experience with their PRo LRT tubing and their System Scrubber. (things went sideways).
I guess I will just have to hold on to my word and will LOUDLY recommend ANY other tubing company to everybody I know, not Primochill, never again, not fter my horrible experience with the tubing and even worse experience with their cust support (Brian the Dick). The crap the got loosened from dirty LRT tubing (after using System Scrubber) nearly clogged my Raystorm CPU block, wasted lots of time on flushing components and opening what I could to scrub them, was never offered with a "problem free" advanced tubing (or at least a damn apology!), because Brian the Almighty said that my problem is not coming from their tubing and stopped responding to emails. well, they have one customer less for life ... and many others that I influence in meantime ... I wish Primochill went bankrupt for what they did (not to me, in general).

good luck to you though. perhaps this tubing works out and is finally fixed and free of issues. I will stick to my colored Feser and if going with clear tubing again I will try the most popular ones listed in this thread.


----------



## 02ssei

That sucks. I never dealt with Brian, only Jennifer. Just told them my issues I was having in a calm manner and what I expected from them in return. Sounds like it's hit or miss.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ceteris*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just got the Durelene tubing and I'm relieved its just as soft and flexible as the Primochill I got. Using it to flush out my 560 rads atm and am very excited to get a loop started with them.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you please tell me the part number/brand of the the plastic part that threads into the GE Water Filter? What section was it in?
> 
> I was at The Home Depot today and had to forget about the whole thing because I couldn't find anything that was the correct size for the GE Water Filter! I didn't get much help from the people that work there, they are clueless and know next to nothing!
Click to expand...

I run into half and half there. Either I get someone who knows a crap load or someone who knows nothing.


----------



## ceteris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Can you please tell me the part number/brand of the the plastic part that threads into the GE Water Filter? What section was it in?
> I was at The Home Depot today and had to forget about the whole thing because I couldn't find anything that was the correct size for the GE Water Filter! I didn't get much help from the people that work there, they are clueless and know next to nothing!


Hey SL,

Unfortunately I threw away the packaging for the plastic fittings. I'm 50% sure it was a Watt's branding but I do know at least the ID was 1/2". I found them next to the cheap Watt's PVC tubing in the plumbing section at the Home Depot in Glendale.

I tell you what. I'll drop by Home Depot again on the way back home from Costco later to see what it is again. I need to find a step drill bit anyways. The plastic fittings are like really cheap maybe less than a buck. I'll pick up a couple of them in case you can't find them and maybe you can like trade me a couple of postage stamps for them lol.

EDIT: Oh yeah don't get the copper fittings if you are trying again. The tubing won't stick for long even with clamps when running the flushing loop.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Engelskhorn*
> 
> Since this is an ongoing an pretty annoying issue, I decided that I wanted to try an analyze this a little deeper.
> To do so I need data, which is why I would like everyone to send an e-mail with the following data to: [email protected]
> 1: is your tube slightly clouded, clouded, clouded to the point where it fully blocks vision or not clouded.
> 2: which metals are present in your loop (not from biocide, so no silver from killcoil or cobber from Nuke)
> 3: What material do your resoir consist of: acryl, something else, or you dont use one.
> 4: what kind of tube do you use: plz state as detailed as possible including brand, size, subtype and aproximate date of purchase.
> 5: what coolant do you use
> 6: which biocide do you use (list killcoils here)
> 7: which dyes do you use
> 8: any other additives
> 9: for how long have the system been running with the current tubes
> 10: average ambient temperature in the room where the Pc is
> 11: water temp during runtime
> 12: flushing method: tap water, tap water then distilled, tap + distilled with weak acid (vinegar or citric acid), filtered water, no flushing
> 13: did you reuse any parts from a previous build (state which)
> 14: corrosion: any signs of corrosion
> 15: Ph of coolant: no data, below 6, 6 to 8, above 8.
> plz submit data even if you dont have any issues, otherwise this wont show anything
> if you have suggestions for other things we might need to include, plz feel free to suggest them.
> plz excuse my lacking english, i am not a native speaker.


Which company do you work for dude?

The use of the word *WE* in the sentence "if you have suggestions for other things *we* might need to include" is a dead giveaway, apart from the type of info you are requesting that we provide for you.
and im sure its not a language mistake, your English is fine









Data mining costs money-i may be wrong but if you are working for a company, at least say that you are gathering information (Data Mining) 'on the cheap'-because you are asking for very detailed info, the sort of info that a company looking to address the wc tubing problem would ask








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> Brian must like you ... wondering why ... Primochill shunned me and ignores my emails since a few weeks. I guess Brain the Liar didn't like my description of experience with their PRo LRT tubing and their System Scrubber. (things went sideways).
> I guess I will just have to hold on to my word and will LOUDLY recommend ANY other tubing company to everybody I know, not Primochill, never again, not fter my horrible experience with the tubing and even worse experience with their cust support (Brian the Dick). The crap the got loosened from dirty LRT tubing (after using System Scrubber) nearly clogged my Raystorm CPU block, wasted lots of time on flushing components and opening what I could to scrub them, was never offered with a "problem free" advanced tubing (or at least a damn apology!), because Brian the Almighty said that my problem is not coming from their tubing and stopped responding to emails. well, they have one customer less for life ... and many others that I influence in meantime ... I wish Primochill went bankrupt for what they did (not to me, in general).
> good luck to you though. perhaps this tubing works out and is finally fixed and free of issues. I will stick to my colored Feser and if going with clear tubing again I will try the most popular ones listed in this thread.


It seems that those of us who dared to voice our valid opinions, and post proof as to the Primochill LRT problems will be singled out, and ignored, classy, real classy Primochill.









They should keep a database of customer complaints/addressses etc, and contact the customer with offers of the new tubing (as long as the customer can provide viable proof of purchase etc)-the customers who made claims & complaints in the past should'nt have to go begging cap in hand to any Jennifer, Suzy ,Sandy or whatever.

As i have said many times before, the way that they have approached this matter has been below par-and they should be jumping at the opportunity to implement damage control and turn around peoples opinions towards their products, but they will rely on people that they sponsor to lie for them, and on the other sheeple that will now keep quiet or suck up to Primochill in the hope that they get a few feet of free tubing









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> That sucks. I never dealt with Brian, only Jennifer. Just told them my issues I was having in a calm manner and what I expected from them in return. Sounds like it's hit or miss.


Maybe im taking what you said the wrong way, BUT, most of us that have approached Primochill with tubing problems have done so initially in a calm manner, your possible hidden suggestion of anything else is insulting, people have subsequently become irate after Brian (CEO of Primochill) has repeatedly ignored peoples valid claims & e mails.
Add to that insults, such as the 5% doozy, and empty promises that have not been honoured, and it is logical that people are irate!

I have an e mail promising to set matters right from Brian, and i have written to Brian at Primochill twice over the last 3-4 weeks and i have been ignored, if i so choose, i could easily mount legal action for compensation based on his e mail to me, the ruined substandard/faulty tubing that i bought and all the other information that has been posted, yet i am waiting till the tubing is released properly on the market, if i do not receive a reply by then, i will decide what avenue to take-so please, enough with the Dalai Lama serenity stance.


----------



## kkorky

Sorry Ghosts in the machine-please delete Mr/Mrs mod.
Thanks


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ceteris*
> 
> Hey SL,
> Unfortunately I threw away the packaging for the plastic fittings. I'm 50% sure it was a Watt's branding but I do know at least the ID was 1/2". I found them next to the cheap Watt's PVC tubing in the plumbing section at the Home Depot in Glendale.
> I tell you what. I'll drop by Home Depot again on the way back home from Costco later to see what it is again. I need to find a step drill bit anyways. The plastic fittings are like really cheap maybe less than a buck. I'll pick up a couple of them in case you can't find them and maybe you can like trade me a couple of postage stamps for them lol.
> EDIT: Oh yeah don't get the copper fittings if you are trying again. The tubing won't stick for long even with clamps when running the flushing loop.


Got it, no copper fittings. I would prefer to go with the plastic threads anyway since the filters threads are also plastic, I confirmed earlier tonight that my local Home Depot has them in-stock. I should have the filter system all ready to go before I even get all of my other water blocks, new dual D5 pump top and tubing. I guess that huge GE filter caused a lot of restriction!

Much appreciated!

Systemlord


----------



## Engelskhorn

Quote:


> Which company do you work for dude?
> 
> The use of the word WE in the sentence "if you have suggestions for other things we might need to include" is a dead giveaway, apart from the type of info you are requesting that we provide for you.
> and im sure its not a language mistake, your English is fine
> 
> Data mining costs money-i may be wrong but if you are working for a company, at least say that you are gathering information (Data Mining) 'on the cheap'-because you are asking for very detailed info, the sort of info that a company looking to address the wc tubing problem would ask


Well ...

I am a medical student from Denmark, and i have been interrested in watercooling for a while, and while planning my first system, I ran into several post about cloudy tubing. I do not work for anybody, the "we" simply refers to this community.

What i read about cloudy tubing seemed to suggest all sort of reasons, while not really being conclusive on anything, so I wanted to investigate, which is why I made the list of things i wanted to attempt to correlate to clouding.

You are absolutely right that this kind of data could be used by watercooling companies, but I have no intention but to use it to fínd potential patterns, which could help the WC community keep their tubes clear.

If it freaks you out to send data to the e-mail i created, just post it in this tread. The reason why i want detailed data, is because I believe it isn't possible to locate potential reasons for clouding without that kind of data. I could keep trying to find data through treads like this, but here i usually only get 2-4 to pieces of information at a time, which is why i made my first post, I even created an account to do this.

Engelskhorn
AKA: Rasmus Kastoft, Stud. Med.


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Engelskhorn*
> 
> Well ...
> I am a medical student from Denmark, and i have been interrested in watercooling for a while, and while planning my first system, I ran into several post about cloudy tubing. I do not work for anybody, the "we" simply refers to this community.
> What i read about cloudy tubing seemed to suggest all sort of reasons, while not really being conclusive on anything, so I wanted to investigate, which is why I made the list of things i wanted to attempt to correlate to clouding.
> You are abslutely right that this kind of data could be used by watercooling companies, but I have no intention but to use it to fínd potential patterns, which could help the WC community keep their tubes clear.
> If it freaks you out to send data to the e-mail i created, just post it in this tread. The reason why i want detailed data, is because I believe it isn't possible to locate potential reasons for clouding without that kind of data. I could keep tryinf to find data through treads like this, but here i usually only get 2-4 to pieces of information at a time, which is why i made my first post, I even created an account to do this.
> Engelskhorn
> AKA: Rasmus Kastoft, Stud. Med.


There is not point of this information being gathered though that the only reason it happens is due to plasticiser. It was removed and it doesn't occur anymore.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Engelskhorn*
> 
> Well ...
> I am a medical student from Denmark, and i have been interrested in watercooling for a while,etc etc
> Engelskhorn
> AKA: Rasmus Kastoft, Stud. Med.


Yes you are correct in saying that such research should be conducted-it has been suggested by myself and many others before and after me.

Good luck with your endeavor, and as for 'freaking me out' there is nothing in this whole forum that could even close to doing that-if you knew what i do for a job, you would understand.

I questioned a request out of the blue for very in depth information from a poster that i had never seen in this thread, that's all-totally understandable after what we have heard ,seen and endured in this thread.

On the other side of the coin, you are more than entitled to conduct such a 'study' whether i, or anyone likes it or not-this forum encourages free speech on both sides









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> There is not point of this information being gathered though that the only reason it happens is due to plasticiser. It was removed and it doesn't occur anymore.


Mate please stop making such misleading comments that are far from the truth-whilst the plasticizer compound may have been removed from, or never included in certain types/makes of tubing (eg Tygon Plasticizer free)-making such rash statements is unhelpful and incorrect.

Simple example:Some people have reported Tygon free tubing as still presenting plasticizer problems- look through this thread and you will see for yourself








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> Seems like up do that a lot, not a fan of your disrespectful tone either. First you say it's ringing an alarm that I have the tubing, then you take offense when I tell you how I got it. I didn't kiss anyone's ass, I simply submitted a ticket on primochill's support system and got a replacement for a faulty part that cost me a whopping $12 to begin with. Legal action over something that cost you less than $20? Are you serious?


I took offence at the fact that you suggested we did not approach Primochill calmly without you having any facts whatsoever-if you don't like being asked a simple question, don't bother answering, i am not the only one who has reservations as to how you got the tubing-as for my so called disrespectful tone, i answered in the manner that i was addressed-so deal with it, and what you feel about my ability to pursue compensation by any means at my disposal is inconsequential-i still hear alarms ringing, why are you so bothered in what i want to do-very strange........

Finally , if you want to continue in this tone lets do it in PMs and not bore others, if not, you have said your piece and so have i, you and i are done.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> Lol this thread cracks me up.. Using *Both* Pro LRT and *Advanced* *both* *running great for 6 + months* now. Plasticizer..LOL cant help laughing when i see that.
> Anyways just seeing the latest in the thread Take care guys,
> *
> MybadOmen*


So true to form- you had advanced 6 months ago-wow miracles do happen. I looked through ALL of your posts not once did you mention using it that far back(dont bother going back to add a comment now lol). hmm, being sponsored by Primochill has nothing to do with it does it? Rhetorical question, of course.

What gets me with people like you is that you are 100% interested in yourself only, you don't really care about the spirit in which *this* thread has been operating(i cant and wont comment on other threads you contribute towards), why not try to help people instead of discounting the myriad of clear and valid cases of faulty tubing, not once have i seen you attempt to mediate between your sponsor and the people who have clearly bought faulty tubing!-stop trying to mislead people-kids and others who dont think for themselves look up to builders like yourself-try integrity!

Dont drink the sponsored builders Kool-aid (scroll down and you can see that Primochill sponsor this guy







)
http://www.overclock.net/t/1222200/completed-mass-effect-3-nzxt-switch-810-build-log-sponsored

Also have a look at IT Diva's post on this page(#90)

http://www.overclock.net/t/1303455/mybadomens-new-nzxt-phantom-evolved-build/80


----------



## 02ssei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Maybe im taking what you said the wrong way, BUT, most of us that have approached Primochill with tubing problems have done so initially in a calm manner, your possible hidden suggestion of anything else is insulting, people have subsequently become irate after Brian (CEO of Primochill) has repeatedly ignored peoples valid claims & e mails.
> Add to that insults, such as the 5% doozy, and empty promises that have not been honoured, and it is logical that people are irate!
> I have an e mail promising to set matters right from Brian, and i have written to Brian at Primochill twice over the last 3-4 weeks and i have been ignored, if i so choose, i could easily mount legal action for compensation based on his e mail to me, the ruined substandard/faulty tubing that i bought and all the other information that has been posted, yet i am waiting till the tubing is released properly on the market, if i do not receive a reply by then, i will decide what avenue to take-so please, enough with the Dalai Lama serenity stance.


Seems like up do that a lot, not a fan of your disrespectful tone either. First you say it's ringing an alarm that I have the tubing, then you take offense when I tell you how I got it. I didn't kiss anyone's ass, I simply submitted a ticket on primochill's support system and got a replacement for a faulty part that cost me a whopping $12 to begin with. Legal action over something that cost you less than $20? Are you serious?


----------



## ea3ot

I have sent and email to Promochill opening a ticket . Anyway we have changed 4 mails between. till today.
The begining : : """"We are very sorry to hear about you white film issue. We will be happy to send you a system scrubber, which gently cleans out your system. All we need is a proof of purchase and a current address. Once we receive these, we can start the shipping process. Please don't hesitate to contact with any questions."""
Proof of `purchase.....Is to much!!!. I have buyed this tube in a phisical shop between january or February togheter with some small items, just a few euros,. 3 meters of tube a and few racords. The thing is I dont have any " proof of purchase" beacose I have pay cash .and it was a very low cost all. The thing is they will not probably take care of my conplaint... I have sent also to the Primochill support a lot of pictures of my buiding where they can see the tubes....but they persist in the "proof of purchase"... Must see the end of the movie., the ticket is still open.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?279315-MY-Dimastech-building

.


----------



## Engelskhorn

I have started a new thread dedicated to submitting data for the investigation i mentioned earlier, feel free to post data their, on this thread or to: [email protected]

Data submission thread

Everyone is more than welcome to submit data, to be able to determine anything, it is just as important to get data from people who have perfectly clear tubing.

Use this form, (if you dont have the data for some parts, just write "no data":

1: is your tube slightly clouded, clouded, clouded to the point where it fully blocks vision or not clouded.
2: which metals are present in your loop (not from biocide, so no silver from killcoil or cobber from Nuke)
3: What material do your resoir consist of: acryl, something else, or you dont use one.
4: what kind of tube do you use: plz state as detailed as possible including brand, size, subtype and aproximate date of purchase.
5: what coolant do you use
6: which biocide do you use (list killcoils here)
7: which dyes do you use
8: any other additives
9: for how long have the system been running with the current tubes
10: average ambient temperature in the room where the Pc is
11: water temp during runtime
12: flushing method: tap water, tap water then distilled, tap + distilled with weak acid (vinegar or citric acid), filtered water, no flushing
13: did you reuse any parts from a previous build (state which)
14: corrosion: any signs of corrosion
15: Ph of coolant:below 6, 6 to 8, above 8.

I hope this will produce some statistical evidence.


----------



## wermad

At least the color looks better plasticized

























Foreground is a new piece of Primochill UV blue and in the back is one that has plasticized. I prefer w/ the look of the plasticized one


----------



## mybadomen

Lol this thread cracks me up.. Using Both Pro LRT and Advanced both running great for 6 + months now. Plasticizer..LOL cant help laughing when i see that.

Anyways just seeing the latest in the thread Take care guys,
*
MybadOmen*


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> Lol this thread cracks me up.. Using Both Pro LRT and Advanced both running great for 6 + months now. Plasticizer..LOL cant help laughing when i see that.
> 
> Anyways just seeing the latest in the thread Take care guys,
> 
> *MybadOmen*


I have defended what you have posted in the past but no more. MBO you are one hell of a modder, but suck as a company rep


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> I have defended what you have posted in the past but no more. MBO you are one hell of a modder, but suck as a company rep


I know that my posts are long winded, but this time, all i have to say is LOL!

Have a look at this page as well(the post before mine-IT Divas post)

http://www.overclock.net/t/1303455/mybadomens-new-nzxt-phantom-evolved-build/80

I leave you to your own conclusions


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> Lol this thread cracks me up.. Using Both Pro LRT and Advanced both running great for 6 + months now. Plasticizer..LOL cant help laughing when i see that.
> Anyways just seeing the latest in the thread Take care guys,
> *MybadOmen
> *


Some pics will be nice from you MybadOmen.

I have some updated to be made soon. This weekend I just had my main rig down for fans upgrade and re-alocat the 240 rad and adding some new tubing. Also I will been posting some of my tubing testing.
1- New tubing
2- Used tubing
3- Washed used tubing

On this update you guys will see how the tubing has changed the color during this time. Stay tune


----------



## PTCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Engelskhorn*
> 
> I have started a new thread dedicated to submitting data for the investigation i mentioned earlier, feel free to post data their, on this thread or to: [email protected]
> Data submission thread
> Everyone is more than welcome to submit data, to be able to determine anything, it is just as important to get data from people who have perfectly clear tubing.
> Use this form, (if you dont have the data for some parts, just write "no data":
> 1: is your tube slightly clouded, clouded, clouded to the point where it fully blocks vision or not clouded.
> 2: which metals are present in your loop (not from biocide, so no silver from killcoil or cobber from Nuke)
> 3: What material do your resoir consist of: acryl, something else, or you dont use one.
> 4: what kind of tube do you use: plz state as detailed as possible including brand, size, subtype and aproximate date of purchase.
> 5: what coolant do you use
> 6: which biocide do you use (list killcoils here)
> 7: which dyes do you use
> 8: any other additives
> 9: for how long have the system been running with the current tubes
> 10: average ambient temperature in the room where the Pc is
> 11: water temp during runtime
> 12: flushing method: tap water, tap water then distilled, tap + distilled with weak acid (vinegar or citric acid), filtered water, no flushing
> 13: did you reuse any parts from a previous build (state which)
> 14: corrosion: any signs of corrosion
> 15: Ph of coolant:below 6, 6 to 8, above 8.
> I hope this will produce some statistical evidence.


Perhaps, here's a good start. Please Contribute! - OCN WC Tubing Database. It's been collecting data for almost a year now. Might not have all the data you want, but still worth looking.


----------



## skyn3t

Durelene

Here is the tubing since ???? and before removed and cleaned with cotton rag and a wood stick with soap.


Left tubing Durelene with plasticizer raze inside
Right New Durelene tubing




Right to Left

New tubing - Used tubing after had been cleaned with cotton rag and wood stick , Used tubing with Plasticizer/haze



Durelene with Distilled water. Left to right

New tubing
New Used tubing after cleaned with cotton rag and a wood stick with soap.
Used tubing with Plasticizer/haze



same order, but how those tubing looks better ?




but here you can see it better but i changed the order left to right

Used tubing with Plasticizer/haze
New tubing
New Used tubing after cleaned with cotton rag and a wood stick with soap.



r

I Had to bring it to a dark background to see it better and here is the proof. Left to right

Used tubing with Plasticizer/haze
New Used tubing after cleaned with cotton rag and a wood stick with soap.
New tubing

Over here you can see the plasticizer/haze much better but when its wet you almost cannot see it only if you put a new or a
cleaned tubing side by side. Now is time to know how long Durelene toke to get like this. My tubing was changed on 7/31/12 Post #1154 http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/1150#post_17827918
running Distilled Water with Mayhems Pastel Ice White.







PS : keep in mind my rig was running Distilled water with Mayhems Pastel Ice White, Durelene has prove the durability. even running under premix and die, the plasticizer/haze is not noticeable whem the tubing is wet. like I said above only side by side with new tubing.

Now is BHD wil only run Distilled water with Mayhems Biocide. for the next final test in very heave load.




Thanks for all you guys support and let's keep this thread clean objective with this problems


----------



## squick3n

Fantastic post. Thanks for all that info. I'm tearing down my loop in a week or so and will post some results of some 3 month old Masterkleer and Durelene


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Durelene
> Here is the tubing since ???? and before removed and cleaned with cotton rag and a wood stick with soap.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Left tubing Durelene with plasticizer raze inside
> Right New Durelene tubing
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right to Left
> New tubing - Used tubing after had been cleaned with cotton rag and wood stick , Used tubing with Plasticizer/haze
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Durelene with Distilled water. Left to right
> New tubing
> New Used tubing after cleaned with cotton rag and a wood stick with soap.
> Used tubing with Plasticizer/haze
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> same order, but how those tubing looks better ?
> 
> 
> but here you can see it better but i changed the order left to right
> 
> 
> Used tubing with Plasticizer/haze
> New tubing
> New Used tubing after cleaned with cotton rag and a wood stick with soap.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> r
> 
> 
> I Had to bring it to a dark background to see it better and here is the proof. Left to right
> Used tubing with Plasticizer/haze
> New Used tubing after cleaned with cotton rag and a wood stick with soap.
> New tubing
> Over here you can see the plasticizer/haze much better but when its wet you almost cannot see it only if you put a new or a
> cleaned tubing side by side. Now is time to know how long Durelene toke to get like this. My tubing was changed on 7/31/12 Post #1154 http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/1150#post_17827918
> running Distilled Water with Mayhems Pastel Ice White.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS : keep in mind my rig was running Distilled water with Mayhems Pastel Ice White, Durelene has prove the durability. even running under premix and die, the plasticizer/haze is not noticeable whem the tubing is wet. like I said above only side by side with new tubing.
> Now is BHD wil only run Distilled water with Mayhems Biocide. for the next final test in very heave load.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for all you guys support and let's keep this thread clean objective with this problems


Looks like Im going to wait on purchasing some Duralene









Sticking with the Primochill blue stuff for now.


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> At least the color looks better plasticized
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foreground is a new piece of Primochill UV blue and in the back is one that has plasticized. I prefer w/ the look of the plasticized one


LOL! funny


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> LOL! funny


Yeah
















The film has actually turned blue due to the Mahyems dye and i think that lends to the blue color of the tube. I just hate the original purple-looking uv blue. I had to use a new piece of tube so its gonna look like that for a few weeks before it turns the nice looking blue plasticized color.

It is hilarious that there's some positive from this whole ordeal







.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squick3n*
> 
> Fantastic post. Thanks for all that info. I'm tearing down my loop in a week or so and will post some results of some 3 month old Masterkleer and Durelene


Please do. We need as much data we can get









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Looks like Im going to wait on purchasing some Duralene
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sticking with the Primochill blue stuff for now.


you don't have to wait just buy it and change it. I like I said before this is one of the best cheap clean tubing around with so much durability around.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> LOL! funny


I does looks way better with the white cream cheese inside some how the color kind sparkling in your rig shines way better. but it does hurt your hardware.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Yeah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The film has actually turned blue due to the Mahyems dye and i think that lends to the blue color of the tube. I just hate the original purple-looking uv blue. I had to use a new piece of tube so its gonna look like that for a few weeks before it turns the nice looking blue plasticized color.
> It is hilarious that there's some positive from this whole ordeal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


some of you just make me







like a little kid sometimes.







..

PS: I almost forgot to let you guys know about the Mayhems Pink UV dye that i used with Durelene after all this time the tubing turn out all pink. I never did cleaned it but i still have it in hands. I may be doing it tonight and see how it goes and post back. called haze+pink dye LOL.


----------



## wermad

^^^ I have my liquid in a jug at the moment and no debris, no discoloration or pastel to it. At most some of the buildup is on the tips of the inner piece-barb of my comp fittings.

I might still place an order since its cheap anyways. How flexible is it btw?


----------



## PTCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Durelene
> Here is the tubing since ???? and before removed and cleaned with cotton rag and a wood stick with soap...


Thank you for the detailed post. A few questions though, did you get a chance to open any of your blocks when you replaced the tubing? And, what (if any) sort of residue you found in the reservoir?

I'm running distilled with 5% corrsion inhibitor myself. So far the white haze is the only sign of problem the Durelene is giving (only visible when dry). Will give it time and report back in the next few months.









Thanks, skyn3t.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PTCB*
> 
> Thank you for the detailed post. A few questions though, did you get a chance to open any of your blocks when you replaced the tubing? And, what (if any) sort of residue you found in the reservoir?
> I'm running distilled with 5% corrsion inhibitor myself. So far the white haze is the only sign of problem the Durelene is giving (only visible when dry). Will give it time and report back in the next few months.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, skyn3t.


My rad was clean like day one both of my rad was very clean,I did used a very tiny flash light to look inside. I could not find anything bad build up/raze or anything around the threads to harm my hardware. CPU block was clean too not much to look inside all the fins was very clean, The only think i did found inside the CPU block is a little tiny peace of the Acetal from my Reservoir Base nothing else. VGA Block from the threads and how clean was the rest of my hardware I did not bother to open it. I can tell you for sure if i had anything wrong with Blocks and Rad I would find it in the threads of both of hardware. Thank God nothing has been found.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> ^^^ I have my liquid in a jug at the moment and no debris, no discoloration or pastel to it. At most some of the buildup is on the tips of the inner piece-barb of my comp fittings.
> I might still place an order since its cheap anyways. How flexible is it btw?


For sure Primochill LRT has a better durometer it it was made for better radius. Tygon R-3603 has almost the same Durometer or equal as Primochill LRT but is lake a bit in a very close radius ( IMO ) Durelene PVC type in the chart it has almost the same or close numbers in but is a bit harder then Tygon and PrimoChill LRT but is does the job depends how you going to bend it is does hold well but won't expect to find the flexibility in Durelene like PrimoChill and Tygon-R3603.

PS: Durelene stay in between those brands above in *flexibility*


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Please do. We need as much data we can get
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you don't have to wait just buy it and change it. I like I said before this is one of the best cheap clean tubing around with so much durability around.
> I does looks way better with the white cream cheese inside some how the color kind sparkling in your rig shines way better. but it does hurt your hardware.
> some of you just make me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> like a little kid sometimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..
> PS: I almost forgot to let you guys know about the Mayhems Pink UV dye that i used with Durelene after all this time the tubing turn out all pink. I never did cleaned it but i still have it in hands. I may be doing it tonight and see how it goes and post back. called haze+pink dye LOL.


Great contribution and effort mate, thanks alot for your information-all help with *trusted* proof is very helpful-good job bud









Your pictures are a good example of the type of haze and slight discolouration that occurs with *ALL* tubing (sooner or later.), this type of haze is minute, and as you clearly showed, after a bit of cleaning (if one chooses to do so) returns to a very good state

-it also shows that the haze within the tubes is much different to the plasticizer seen in so many photos from our fellow OCN people-plasticizer also can damage one's loop-hence our ongoing battle to find a suitable product









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> Just to let everyone know if you Send a ticket to Primochill with an invoice they will help you out and they are very nice about it,
> They are willing to replace all my 40Ft of tubing with clear advanced for free.
> I'm a very pleased customer.


Hmm send a ticket?

What about them looking through their complaints and contacting the customers that have already sent in purchase proof, photos as requested, and deal with those complaints?

Why dont they honour the e mails promising to put things right?

As i said, when the time is right, i will act if they do not do the right thing.

Im glad that you will have your tubing replaced, the aim of this thread is to get our fellow members informed and happy with their tubing products, maybe shaking the tree has done some good, if so, then i'm happy , but not satisfied enough, Primochill still have a lot of work ahead of them to make things right.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> They actually reply to them? I've sent a few messages a few months ago and I got squat. I got through to them by one of their sponsored modders.


I wonder whom mate?? lol









(just some harmless fun)

On a serious note though-this is further proof of their selectivity when dealing with customers.


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I does looks way better with the white cream cheese inside some how the color kind sparkling in your rig shines way better. but it does hurt your hardware.


I no longer use Primochill UV Blue LRT Pro tubing at all ... I run Feser Active UV Blue (in new updated pics of mine, old ones show Primo LRT) which looks exactly same LOL and doesn't get covered with white cream cheese inside








I have 3 UV cathodes in my system that cast nice black light almost evenly all over the tubing, hence the color effect


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Just to let everyone know if you Send a ticket to Primochill with an invoice they will help you out and they are very nice about it,
They are willing to replace all my 40Ft of tubing with clear advanced for free.
I'm a very pleased customer.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> Just to let everyone know if you Send a ticket to Primochill with an invoice they will help you out and they are very nice about it,
> They are willing to replace all my 40Ft of tubing with clear advanced for free.
> I'm a very pleased customer.


They actually reply to them? I've sent a few messages a few months ago and I got squat. I got through to them by one of their sponsored modders.


----------



## kkorky

Delete plse Mod sry


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> They actually reply to them? I've sent a few messages a few months ago and I got squat. I got through to them by one of their sponsored modders.


Got a reply in 2 days, first thing monday morning, since i sent it Saturday, My title Was Plasticiser Problem! and i put it to critical.
I attached my invoice and a picture of the problem a girl name Jennifer responded and asked how much i had bought i told her 40Ft i attached more and she said they would cover all of it








Just keep trying and don't be rude i just stated that i wanted a replacement or if i could receive the new advanced tubing and she said she would replaced with advanced so


----------



## kkorky

more damn gremlins sorry again please remove Mr Mod.


----------



## nyk20z3

Ordered 30' of Durelene from sidewinder so lets see how it works out.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PTCB*
> 
> Thank you for the detailed post. A few questions though, did you get a chance to open any of your blocks when you replaced the tubing? And, what (if any) sort of residue you found in the reservoir?
> *I'm running distilled with 5% corrsion inhibitor* myself. So far the white haze is the only sign of problem the Durelene is giving (only visible when dry). Will give it time and report back in the next few months.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, skyn3t.


Which corrsion inhibitor are you referring to?


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Which corrsion inhibitor are you referring to?


I'm lazy a bit to explaim it tonight but here we go
A corrosion inhibitor is a chemical compound that, when added to a liquid or gas, decreases the corrosion rate of a material, typically a metal or an alloy link


----------



## Homeronte

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I'm lazy a bit to explaim it tonight but here we go
> A corrosion inhibitor is a chemical compound that, when added to a liquid or gas, decreases the corrosion rate of a material, typically a metal or an alloy link


I think he is asking you the product or brand that you are using... or thats what i understood...


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I'm lazy a bit to explaim it tonight but here we go
> A corrosion inhibitor is a chemical compound that, when added to a liquid or gas, decreases the corrosion rate of a material, typically a metal or an alloy link


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Homeronte*
> 
> I think he is asking you the product or brand that you are using... or thats what i understood...


*Homeronte* is correct, I just wanted to know brand product of the corrosion inhibitor you are using. I do know what a corrosion inhibitor is and what it does.


----------



## 02ssei

Going on day 3 with the Primochill Advanced tubing. So far so good considering my Primochill Pro LRT was hazy by the third day.

bounce flash off the ceiling


direct flash


----------



## ea3ot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> Got a reply in 2 days, first thing monday morning, since i sent it Saturday, My title Was Plasticiser Problem! and i put it to critical.
> I attached my invoice and a picture of the problem a girl name Jennifer responded and asked how much i had bought i told her 40Ft i attached more and she said they would cover all of it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just keep trying and don't be rude i just stated that i wanted a replacement or if i could receive the new advanced tubing and she said she would replaced with advanced so


The same Jeniffer she told me is nothing she can do without "a proof of purchase" I have buyed this tube cash on a phiscal shop early this year. She dont care about the one million pics I have sent showing the tube on my building.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Homeronte*
> 
> I think he is asking you the product or brand that you are using... or thats what i understood...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> *Homeronte* is correct, I just wanted to know brand product of the corrosion inhibitor you are using. I do know what a corrosion inhibitor is and what it does.


[/I]

I was very tired last night and I should not replay so quickly. But here is my choose, I do recommend Mayhems Biocide 10ml I have been using Mike ( Mayhems Products for quiet some time and I'm very pleasant with the results. Mike was very kinda and still given our community hes support himself. He did provide me all hes products for testing purpose along with me we did some testing and we still on the road doing it. you can find a lot good info here Mayhems users club and if you have any question just drop a msg there or here and we will be happy to answer you.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> Going on day 3 with the Primochill Advanced tubing. So far so good considering my Primochill Pro LRT was hazy by the third day.
> bounce flash off the ceiling
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> direct flash
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


02ssei nice setup bud, and I'll be watch close your results keep us post like i said a couple post back we do need as much data we can find.
PS: The new Primochill Advanced tubing shines well







hope it is good like the looks.


----------



## wermad

Advanced LRT is $10 more than the old LRT (amazon). Its priced right with most other rolls from other water brands (TFC, Koolance, etc.). But still considereably more expensive than the cost-effective brands (ie Duralene, MasterKlear, etc.).


----------



## PTCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Which corrsion inhibitor are you referring to?


Automotive corrosion inhibitor: Nulon Ultra Cool.


----------



## DiGiCiDAL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Yes you are correct in saying that such research should be conducted-it has been suggested by myself and many others before and after me.
> ...
> I took offence at the fact that you suggested we did not approach Primochill calmly without you having any facts whatsoever-if you don't like being asked a simple question, don't bother answering, i am not the only one who has reservations as to how you got the tubing-as for my so called disrespectful tone, i answered in the manner that i was addressed-so deal with it, and what you feel about my ability to pursue compensation by any means at my disposal is inconsequential-i still hear alarms ringing, why are you so bothered in what i want to do-very strange.
> ...
> I looked through ALL of your posts not once did you mention using it that far back(dont bother going back to add a comment now lol). hmm, being sponsored by Primochill has nothing to do with it does it? Rhetorical question, of course.
> ...


As someone who has been burned in the past numerous times by vendors overstating or potentially outright lying about their products' efficacy or durability I can understand your frustration and desire for recompense. On the other hand, even if you are an attorney yourself - or have a business with in-house counsel that's salaried... unless you purchased $1000's of dollars worth of tubing and put it in systems that you warrantied yourself against clouding, clogging, etc. I hardly see legal action as being worth it at all - even drafting a few letters will take more time than the dollars represent in value. I agree that a paid shill's (for lack of a better term) testimony is far from requisite assurance that a company has 'mended it's ways' - but I think perspective here is getting out of hand as well.

Many have compared the Primochill problems and subsequent propaganda campaign to EK's nickel-plating incident. However, I have yet to hear of a single case of actual component failure due to plasticizer. In fact, in most cases the worst issues arose from the 'fix' (sysclean) not the initial residue leaching. Even in those cases the blocks were cleanable and the pump still functioned (admittedly with a potentially shorter lifespan - but no objective proof of this so far).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ea3ot*
> 
> The same Jeniffer she told me is nothing she can do without "a proof of purchase" I have buyed this tube cash on a phiscal shop early this year. She dont care about the one million pics I have sent showing the tube on my building.


Can't say that's a negative on their CS about that - how are they to even verify that it's their product if you have no proof of purchase? I'm not aware of any vendor that will accept returns of a product that you don't have proof of ownership in some form or another.

Don't get me wrong here - I'm no defending the company that obviously tried to cover up (at least twice) issues with their product that were easily documented and tested (i.e. run some 30-35C distilled water through your tubing for a week or two) - but we are talking about the cheapest part of a water cooling loop - and one with tons of alternatives. If you're talking about $300-400 worth of CPU and GPU blocks being ruined - it might be time for a small claims attempt. If it's $30 worth of tubing... I'd call that a write-off (actually, if it were $300 I might too... but that's just because I hate spending hours on the phone or writing letters just trying to get something I've already replaced and moved on).

If their tubing was significantly more attractive or efficient than all of the competition... then I could see a big issue here. Since it's not... why not just never do business with that company again? I guess I'm just confused as to why so many people with $2K+ systems (many much more) are desperate to remediate a loss of less than 2% of that cost. I personally spent many times more in shipping just getting my other parts delivered. Of course, I also figured that building a custom WC loop using aftermarket parts would lead to extra costs and potentially expensive failures - due to all the voided warranties in the process of customization.









Anyway, I am glad this thread exists since it saved me putting the PC tubing in my system - but I'm not worried about getting my money back... I just won't give them any more no matter how great their new tubing is. Just my


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiGiCiDAL*
> 
> As someone who has been burned in the past numerous times by vendors overstating or potentially outright lying about their products' efficacy or durability I can understand your frustration and desire for recompense. On the other hand, even if you are an attorney yourself - or have a business with in-house counsel that's salaried... unless you purchased $1000's of dollars worth of tubing and put it in systems that you warrantied yourself against clouding, clogging, etc. I hardly see legal action as being worth it at all - even drafting a few letters will take more time than the dollars represent in value. I agree that a paid shill's (for lack of a better term) testimony is far from requisite assurance that a company has 'mended it's ways' - but I think perspective here is getting out of hand as well.
> Many have compared the Primochill problems and subsequent propaganda campaign to EK's nickel-plating incident. However, I have yet to hear of a single case of actual component failure due to plasticizer. In fact, in most cases the worst issues arose from the 'fix' (sysclean) not the initial residue leaching. Even in those cases the blocks were cleanable and the pump still functioned (admittedly with a potentially shorter lifespan - but no objective proof of this so far).
> Can't say that's a negative on their CS about that - how are they to even verify that it's their product if you have no proof of purchase? I'm not aware of any vendor that will accept returns of a product that you don't have proof of ownership in some form or another.
> Don't get me wrong here - I'm no defending the company that obviously tried to cover up (at least twice) issues with their product that were easily documented and tested (i.e. run some 30-35C distilled water through your tubing for a week or two) - but we are talking about the cheapest part of a water cooling loop - and one with tons of alternatives. If you're talking about $300-400 worth of CPU and GPU blocks being ruined - it might be time for a small claims attempt. If it's $30 worth of tubing... I'd call that a write-off (actually, if it were $300 I might too... but that's just because I hate spending hours on the phone or writing letters just trying to get something I've already replaced and moved on).
> If their tubing was significantly more attractive or efficient than all of the competition... then I could see a big issue here. Since it's not... *why not just never do business with that company again?* I guess I'm just confused as to why so many people with $2K+ systems (many much more) are desperate to remediate a loss of less than 2% of that cost. I personally spent many times more in shipping just getting my other parts delivered. Of course, I also figured that building a custom WC loop using aftermarket parts would lead to extra costs and potentially expensive failures - due to all the voided warranties in the process of customization.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, I am glad this thread exists since it saved me putting the PC tubing in my system - but I'm not worried about getting my money back... I just won't give them any more no matter how great their new tubing is. Just my


this. that's my approach, plus as I promised to Primochill's CEO Brian in my last emails that if he leaves me in the dark and with no further help (stopped responding to me after I described my experience with Sys Scrubber)I then I will also simply recommend getting OTHER tubing to all folks and friends who ask about advice on that, since Primochill tubing is dangerous and their Customer Service is insulting.

here is what happened to my Raystorm cpu block after only 4 days of using Sys Cleaner, as you can see the crap from Proimochill tubing got liquified and loosened off. there was initially 2 blobs of blue gel that came out of Raystorm CPU block when flushing it under hot water, the picture shows what I found in it AFTER flushing with hot water for 30 mins and using some liquid soap, then I decided to open the block to have a look, not the blue tint to those tiny gel particles around jet area on cooling plate.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> this. that's my approach, plus as I promised to Primochill's CEO Brian in my last emails that if he leaves me in the dark and with no further help (stopped responding to me after I described my experience with Sys Scrubber)I then I will also simply recommend getting OTHER tubing to all folks and friends who ask about advice on that, since Primochill tubing is dangerous and their Customer Service is insulting.
> here is what happened to my Raystorm cpu block after only 4 days of using Sys Cleaner, as you can see the crap from Proimochill tubing got liquified and loosened off. there was initially 2 blobs of blue gel that came out of Raystorm CPU block when flushing it under hot water, the picture shows what I found in it AFTER flushing with hot water for 30 mins and using some liquid soap, then I decided to open the block to have a look, not the blue tint to those tiny gel particles around jet area on cooling plate.
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us


I was waiting for this for long long time and finally someone got the guts to post the real DEAL of bad side of this crap SYS SCRUB cleaner. I know it will leave a lot of crap inside the blocks. This gel stuck in your blocks eventually it will going to transform in some kinda corrosion and from that it will eat the rest of you blocks and rad with NO DOUBT.

have you seen it? *feniks* may turn out like this in the future. who knows







.


I will never wait to see this happen, this is on of my big concern.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I was waiting for this for long long time and finally someone got the guts to post the real DEAL of bad side of this crap SYS SCRUB cleaner. I know it will leave a lot of crap inside the blocks. This gel stuck in your blocks eventually it will going to transform in some kinda corrosion and from that it will eat the rest of you blocks and rad with NO DOUBT.
> have you seen it? *feniks* may turn out like this in the future. who knows
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I will never wait to see this happen, this is on of my big concern.


That is beyond bad, maybe instead of getting the scrubber... just get new tubing seems a little cheaper


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> That is beyond bad, maybe instead of getting the scrubber... just get new tubing seems a little cheaper


this is what I'm trying to explain to all of us here and get rid of the bad tubing till we can get some new data for the next tubing for water cooler. Primochill LRT friends and REP'S what you have to say now? oh... i know. This is users fault. BS.


----------



## DiGiCiDAL

That's what I'm talking about - I can totally understand wanting to sue if there is irreparable damage to multiple components in a loop. But it seems many people are complaining about having to trash $40 or so worth of tubing to have a 'safer' loop - to me that just made good sense despite just having purchased the PC tubing. Do I wish I hadn't given them any of my money? Sure. Am I going to spend even one hour trying to get that $40 back from them? Nope. I realize that everyone's situation is different, but when most of us have more money invested in a few fittings (or one fitting for those monsoon 90-degree guys) it's not the end of the world to just avoid them in the future. I figure I already lost the initial money... I'm not going to waste even more just to get a batch of (thus far) unproven 'better' tubing from the same company. Caveat Emptor (sp?) as the saying goes.


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *theimport*
> 
> Thank god I stumbled upon this. Was about to order some tubing to replace my cloudy Tygon.
> Now the question is, what do I get?


I had some cloudy Tygon and I was able to wash it clear with dish washing soap and hot water. Used a rag and forced it through to scrub. Rinsed with hot water then ran rubbing alcohol through it to for cleanliness then ran some more water for rinse.


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I was waiting for this for long long time and finally someone got the guts to post the real DEAL of bad side of this crap SYS SCRUB cleaner. I know it will leave a lot of crap inside the blocks. This gel stuck in your blocks eventually it will going to transform in some kinda corrosion and from that it will eat the rest of you blocks and rad with NO DOUBT.
> have you seen it? *feniks* may turn out like this in the future. who knows
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will never wait to see this happen, this is on of my big concern.


yup, I've seen it before. I caught it early, but I'm pretty sure that's where it was heading to. I am still unsure of my rads ... not much I can do about them on top of vinegar & hot water flushing, they seem OK now, but who knows what is inside ... THAT is what pisses me really off and makes me want to keep bashing Primochill further. I don't care about money I lost on their tubing (in garbage since 2 months), but what about the rest that can't be opened up for inspection? it sucks.
I just hope that rads have no such residue since the reservoir didn't have it at all, but it could be wishful thinking ...


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I was waiting for this for long long time and finally someone got the guts to post the real DEAL of bad side of this crap SYS SCRUB cleaner. I know it will leave a lot of crap inside the blocks. This gel stuck in your blocks eventually it will going to transform in some kinda corrosion and from that it will eat the rest of you blocks and rad with NO DOUBT.
> have you seen it? *feniks* may turn out like this in the future. who knows
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I will never wait to see this happen, this is on of my big concern.


Not to side with PrimoChill, but they said Sys Scrubber was meant to be in the system for a max of 3 days...


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> Not to side with PrimoChill, but they said Sys Scrubber was meant to be in the system for a max of 3 days...


actually not true. the instructions they send state anywhere from 24 hours to 4 days, that's what I received and followed up to max. it didn't clean all the white film from tubing however (needed to manually scrub anyways) and it caused more trouble with loosening the blue gel particles ... besides after draining some sections of the tubing looked like covered with blue honey inside. some total crap. even after I cleaned it off manually and re-used the white film started coming back in a week or so, after another drain (distilled with Primochill Utopia used, no silver coil) the tubing became clouded and whitish all over inside upon drying. that's what I call a POS tubing being actually dangerous and customer service incapable of admitting the problem and helping the customer to solve the problem leading to potentially endangering all components by using it still. I boycott Primochill.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I was waiting for this for long long time and finally someone got the guts to post the real DEAL of bad side of this crap SYS SCRUB cleaner. I know it will leave a lot of crap inside the blocks. This gel stuck in your blocks eventually it will going to transform in some kinda corrosion and from that it will eat the rest of you blocks and rad with NO DOUBT.
> have you seen it? *feniks* may turn out like this in the future. who knows
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will never wait to see this happen, this is on of my big concern.
> 
> 
> 
> yup, I've seen it before. I caught it early, but I'm pretty sure that's where it was heading to. I am still unsure of my rads ... not much I can do about them on top of vinegar & hot water flushing, they seem OK now, but who knows what is inside ... THAT is what pisses me really off and makes me want to keep bashing Primochill further. I don't care about money I lost on their tubing (in garbage since 2 months), but what about the rest that can't be opened up for inspection? it sucks.
> I just hope that rads have no such residue since the reservoir didn't have it at all, but it could be wishful thinking ...
Click to expand...

I would test your ph levels in your loop to make sure it isn't high.


----------



## captvizcenzo

This is what happened to mine few weeks ago. I used the scrubber for around 40 hours. Tubes are crystal clear, even clearer than a new one. I kept my system running the whole time while the scrubber was in.




I'm currently using the "scrubbed" tubes. If it turns cloudy again, I think I'll demand a replacement. If they honor it though.


----------



## 02ssei

I should have the mayhem's pastel white in the next few days. I think I will take my CPU block apart and see if anything is in there. I only had the plasticizer tubing for 2 weeks before running the scrubber, but I'm curious if any crap is in there.


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Yes you are correct in saying that such research should be conducted-it has been suggested by myself and many others before and after me.
> Good luck with your endeavor, and as for 'freaking me out' there is nothing in this whole forum that could even close to doing that-if you knew what i do for a job, you would understand.
> I questioned a request out of the blue for very in depth information from a poster that i had never seen in this thread, that's all-totally understandable after what we have heard ,seen and endured in this thread.
> On the other side of the coin, you are more than entitled to conduct such a 'study' whether i, or anyone likes it or not-this forum encourages free speech on both sides
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mate please stop making such misleading comments that are far from the truth-whilst the plasticizer compound may have been removed from, or never included in certain types/makes of tubing (eg Tygon Plasticizer free)-making such rash statements is unhelpful and incorrect.
> Simple example:Some people have reported Tygon free tubing as still presenting plasticizer problems- look through this thread and you will see for yourself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I took offence at the fact that you suggested we did not approach Primochill calmly without you having any facts whatsoever-if you don't like being asked a simple question, don't bother answering, i am not the only one who has reservations as to how you got the tubing-as for my so called disrespectful tone, i answered in the manner that i was addressed-so deal with it, and what you feel about my ability to pursue compensation by any means at my disposal is inconsequential-i still hear alarms ringing, why are you so bothered in what i want to do-very strange........
> Finally , if you want to continue in this tone lets do it in PMs and not bore others, if not, you have said your piece and so have i, you and i are done.
> So true to form- you had advanced 6 months ago-wow miracles do happen. I looked through ALL of your posts not once did you mention using it that far back(dont bother going back to add a comment now lol). hmm, being sponsored by Primochill has nothing to do with it does it? Rhetorical question, of course.
> What gets me with people like you is that you are 100% interested in yourself only, you don't really care about the spirit in which *this* thread has been operating(i cant and wont comment on other threads you contribute towards), why not try to help people instead of discounting the myriad of clear and valid cases of faulty tubing, not once have i seen you attempt to mediate between your sponsor and the people who have clearly bought faulty tubing!-stop trying to mislead people-kids and others who dont think for themselves look up to builders like yourself-try integrity!
> Dont drink the sponsored builders Kool-aid (scroll down and you can see that Primochill sponsor this guy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1222200/completed-mass-effect-3-nzxt-switch-810-build-log-sponsored
> Also have a look at IT Diva's post on this page(#90)
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1303455/mybadomens-new-nzxt-phantom-evolved-build/80


Try people like me are the ones working daily to fix the problem if you only had half a clue of what you were talking about .while wait what are you doing? And yes actually been running multiple brands of tubing and coolants for close to a year now non stop 24/7 on 2 test benches with all test equipment . And my comment doesn't apply to Primochill but it just makes me laugh because 2 seconds using Google you can see the same issue with any tubing. Why the hell do i care if a company sponsors me 30 dollars worth of tubing for a 5 to 8 thousand dollar build? I am going to sacrifice everything for that?? Get real will you. I like you and many others tried all the others listed here will all poor results so went back to using what i always have Primochill. I dont see whats so wrong with that. I read Tygon is great in this thread. Thanks guys for the waste of money and piss yellow tubing that was. I tried the Masterkeer listed here total joke. XSPC tried it and wont go there. So what are we supposed to do tell me that rather then thinking im the bad guy. I want what you want .CLEAR Tubing! Thats all i don't care who has it and dont say duraleen however you spell it because i dont want that yellow crap either. Sorry i have no intention of being disrespectful i just dont know how many times i have to say im only trying to help and yes i have close connections NOT sponsorship with a tubing company and am trying and they are trying their very hardest to put out a tubing that wont cloud in anyway. but that's extremely hard as many in water cooling know. And if doing high voltage overclocking its even harder on the tubing as you can see by some that have a section coming from the cpu only that goes bad. But you have to go through this whole thread and really look at some of the photos of CPU & GPU blocks apart and you can def see some of it is def poor loop maintenance and i myself have done it also .

To put it simply i am in the same boat i just want CLEAR Tubing that holds up and im doing my best at trying to make that happen and that goes far into people who make the tubing now.But my posts way back in the beginning i did not have the support or help working on tubing. I used to post here about the testing i was doing but it was just ridiculous post after post so i have continued the testing working closely with the companies on a solution. Thats all not such a bad guy. I also find it so funny before i was sponsored i was a great guy but now that people give me a few things im not anymore?? I still spend Thousands of dollars on each build you know, just like you guys and im still me the same person you knew from before getting support.I dont and wont Lie for a company no matter who it is. I am a Modder that's what i care about and i love the community but the community that i called home here at OCN really hasn't been the same home i once knew where people helped each other ,got together and solved a problem. Now its just bashing,Trolling and insults all over the place. Well i wont say everywhere as many of you guys are still awesome but for some god awful reason have it in their heads that these companies own me or something. Again its 30 dollar tubing ! think about it. Im going to lie to all of you ruin my whole reputation over 30 dollar tubing. No i say what i say because i mean i tried others recommended here and went back to regular Primochill and found ways around the clouding. And when it does cloud ill change it and clean my loop. the joys of water cooling. Nickel plating is another one. i never owned a block that wasnt Nickel plated but i never had a bad one.Def could be just good luck though.As i def had my share of DOA's .

Anyway please don't bring this thread talking about a 5 year old issue into my build logs. Thats kind of disrespectful and i wouldn't do it to you.

And whether you want to believe it or not im on your side ,Actually i don't think anyone is on any other side as we all want the perfect tubing.and i just meant this thread is funny as its still going and its was going years before this thread started with all the brand tubing's also and coolants,and blocks,and pumps. Its water cooling a PC and we don't want H100's so we do it anyway..LOL At least its not Algae like years ago when tubing was the size of a straw.

Take Care guys and i am the same person i have always been just a bit busier ,Love all you guys here as i always have and trust me if i had something that's going to help the situation i would post it
but mostly i try to avoid the thread as i am constantly draining loops and changing tubing almost every day helping to solve this.

Talk Soon
*MybadOmen*


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Advanced LRT is $10 more than the old LRT (amazon). Its priced right with most other rolls from other water brands (TFC, Koolance, etc.). But still considereably more expensive than the cost-effective brands (ie Duralene, MasterKlear, etc.).


Weremad, is it for sale on US Amazon?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiGiCiDAL*
> 
> As someone who has been burned in the past numerous times by vendors overstating or potentially outright lying about their products' efficacy or durability I can understand your frustration and desire for recompense. Etc etc etc Just my


Ok, ill try to keep this short:

1) of course what you say makes sense, but this issue with Primochill has gone from being a mere faulty product issue, to a case of right vs wrong in my eyes. i was promised via e mail to have things set right by Brian (CEO of Primochill) and ever since i have 'dared' to criticise their product, my e mails for new tubing etc have been ignored-he's obviously trying to get back at me for trashing his prior tubing.

2)you would be correct in assuming that i have the financial means and power to 'waste' money on legal avenues-it would take 0.00% of my personal time, and at the very least will provide illumination on Primochill's substandard Customer after service-regardless of the fact that they are trying to clean up their image by giving replacement tubing to others who 'calmly' lol contacted them-one re occurring variant-anyone who has been aggressive in their critisism of their faulty LRT tubing, has been ignored.

3) I do indeed have proof of purchase from *two (2)* different vendors-and i also sent Brian an e mail outlining what my system entailed etc, plus photos of the faulty tubing-i still have samples of the faulty tubing.
He sent me an e mail, which i still have and posted further back in this thread offering to make matters right, to which i replied, that when the time is right(ie when the new tubing is released), i would contact him for some of it-but until then, i do not relinquish in anyway my rights as a consumer









4) That having been said,i appreciate you trying to be the voice of reason-thanks & much appreciated









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> this is what I'm trying to explain to all of us here and get rid of the bad tubing till we can get some new data for the next tubing for water cooler. Primochill LRT friends and REP'S what you have to say now? oh... i know. This is users fault. BS.


your efforts are to be applauded my friend








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiGiCiDAL*
> 
> That's what I'm talking about - I can totally understand wanting to sue if there is irreparable damage to multiple components in a loop. But it seems many people are complaining about having to trash $40 or so worth of tubing to have a 'safer' loop - to me that just made good sense despite just having purchased the PC tubing. Do I wish I hadn't given them any of my money? Sure. Am I going to spend even one hour trying to get that $40 back from them? Nope. I realize that everyone's situation is different, but when most of us have more money invested in a few fittings (or one fitting for those monsoon 90-degree guys) it's not the end of the world to just avoid them in the future. I figure I already lost the initial money... I'm not going to waste even more just to get a batch of (thus far) unproven 'better' tubing from the same company. Caveat Emptor (sp?) as the saying goes.


See above.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> Try people like me are the ones working daily to fix the problem if you only had half a clue of what you were talking about .while wait what are you doing? Etc etc etc
> *MybadOmen*


1)You do not merely have 'close connections' with Primochill, you are sponsored by Primochill :http://www.overclock.net/t/1222200/completed-mass-effect-3-nzxt-switch-810-build-log-sponsored

Scroll down-you have stated this yourself.

2)I came into your log to post a reply to what was said by IT Diva









3) People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones-as i said before, your posts have been insulting to many here, expect replies.

Look, i have said what i have to say, you can think what you want, but my conscience is clear, is yours?(rhetorical question,as im not bothered if it is)

People this is what i posted on his log, just so you can have another side of the coin:http://www.overclock.net/t/1303455/mybadomens-new-nzxt-phantom-evolved-build/90

Posts 91 & 94

MBO, your missing a point here, yes im the one who has actually bothered to reply to your posts, but others are similarly p*ssed off with your posts-just take the time to go through and read some of them

i will end this on a positive note-i fully agree that people should conspire to help each other in these forums, but if we rock other peoples boats, we should expect the same in return









I wish, that you would actually try to help the situation here instead of looking at it from your point of view only-use your gift, your contacts, your sponsors-open up lines of communication between hard done by customers and give them your support when your time allows.

This will create a good name for yourself, please the customers and finally increase sales for your sponsors.

So in the interest of fairness, i will take on board what you have said, and the future shall tell-thank you for taking the time out to post your side of the story-much appreciated


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Weremad, is it for sale on US Amazon?
> Ok, ill try to keep this short:
> 1) of course what you say makes sense, but this issue with Primochill has gone from being a mere faulty product issue, to a case of right vs wrong in my eyes. i was promised via e mail to have things set right by Brian (CEO of Primochill) and ever since i have 'dared' to criticise their product, my e mails for new tubing etc have been ignored-he's obviously trying to get back at me for trashing his prior tubing.
> 2)you would be correct in assuming that i have the financial means and power to 'waste' money on legal avenues-it would take 0.00% of my personal time, and at the very least will provide illumination on Primochill's substandard Customer after service-regardless of the fact that they are trying to clean up their image by giving replacement tubing to others who 'calmly' lol contacted them-one re occurring variant-anyone who has been aggressive in their critisism of their faulty LRT tubing, has been ignored.
> 3) I do indeed have proof of purchase from *two (2)* different vendors-and i also sent Brian an e mail outlining what my system entailed etc, plus photos of the faulty tubing-i still have samples of the faulty tubing.
> He sent me an e mail, which i still have and posted further back in this thread offering to make matters right, to which i replied, that when the time is right(ie when the new tubing is released), i would contact him for some of it-but until then, i do not relinquish in anyway my rights as a consumer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4) That having been said,i appreciate you trying to be the voice of reason-thanks & much appreciated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> your efforts are to be applauded my friend
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


kkorky thank you. I'm happy and very pleasant to help our community. I may be doing a clean test on my Durelene Dye-pink tubing today, stay tune.
_____________________________________________________________

If anyone here with this new *Advanced LRT* can you take a close picture with quality and post back please. I would love to put my hands on this new Primochill Advanced LRT tubing for test just to see how it will handle my testing.


----------



## 02ssei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> _____________________________________________________________
> If anyone here with this new *Advanced LRT* can you take a close picture with quality and post back please. I would love to put my hands on this new Primochill Advanced LRT tubing for test just to see how it will handle my testing.


I posted some pictures in post #1839 and #1894. I wish I had a macro lens to get a really detailed shot, but I do not.


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> I would test your ph levels in your loop to make sure it isn't high.


never tested pH levels, but I can only assure you that loop is maintained very well and the clear distilled water is only thing (plus silver kill coil or Primochill Utopia which I tried once, but never together) is drained out and refilled like once a month or two or sometimes more often when I upgrade components (that's how I spotted the problem with Primochill tubing in first place).


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Yes you are correct in saying that such research should be conducted-it has been suggested by myself and many others before and after me.
> Good luck with your endeavor, and as for 'freaking me out' there is nothing in this whole forum that could even close to doing that-if you knew what i do for a job, you would understand.
> I questioned a request out of the blue for very in depth information from a poster that i had never seen in this thread, that's all-totally understandable after what we have heard ,seen and endured in this thread.
> On the other side of the coin, you are more than entitled to conduct such a 'study' whether i, or anyone likes it or not-this forum encourages free speech on both sides
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mate please stop making such misleading comments that are far from the truth-whilst the plasticizer compound may have been removed from, or never included in certain types/makes of tubing (eg Tygon Plasticizer free)-making such rash statements is unhelpful and incorrect.
> Simple example:Some people have reported Tygon free tubing as still presenting plasticizer problems- look through this thread and you will see for yourself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I took offence at the fact that you suggested we did not approach Primochill calmly without you having any facts whatsoever-if you don't like being asked a simple question, don't bother answering, i am not the only one who has reservations as to how you got the tubing-as for my so called disrespectful tone, i answered in the manner that i was addressed-so deal with it, and what you feel about my ability to pursue compensation by any means at my disposal is inconsequential-i still hear alarms ringing, why are you so bothered in what i want to do-very strange........
> Finally , if you want to continue in this tone lets do it in PMs and not bore others, if not, you have said your piece and so have i, you and i are done.
> So true to form- you had advanced 6 months ago-wow miracles do happen. I looked through ALL of your posts not once did you mention using it that far back(dont bother going back to add a comment now lol). hmm, being sponsored by Primochill has nothing to do with it does it? Rhetorical question, of course.
> What gets me with people like you is that you are 100% interested in yourself only, you don't really care about the spirit in which *this* thread has been operating(i cant and wont comment on other threads you contribute towards), why not try to help people instead of discounting the myriad of clear and valid cases of faulty tubing, not once have i seen you attempt to mediate between your sponsor and the people who have clearly bought faulty tubing!-stop trying to mislead people-kids and others who dont think for themselves look up to builders like yourself-try integrity!
> Dont drink the sponsored builders Kool-aid (scroll down and you can see that Primochill sponsor this guy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1222200/completed-mass-effect-3-nzxt-switch-810-build-log-sponsored
> Also have a look at IT Diva's post on this page(#90)
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1303455/mybadomens-new-nzxt-phantom-evolved-build/80
> 
> 
> 
> Try people like me are the ones working daily to fix the problem if you only had half a clue of what you were talking about .while wait what are you doing? And yes actually been running multiple brands of tubing and coolants for close to a year now non stop 24/7 on 2 test benches with all test equipment . And my comment doesn't apply to Primochill but it just makes me laugh because 2 seconds using Google you can see the same issue with any tubing. Why the hell do i care if a company sponsors me 30 dollars worth of tubing for a 5 to 8 thousand dollar build? I am going to sacrifice everything for that?? Get real will you. I like you and many others tried all the others listed here will all poor results so went back to using what i always have Primochill. I dont see whats so wrong with that. I read Tygon is great in this thread. Thanks guys for the waste of money and piss yellow tubing that was. I tried the Masterkeer listed here total joke. XSPC tried it and wont go there. So what are we supposed to do tell me that rather then thinking im the bad guy. I want what you want .CLEAR Tubing! Thats all i don't care who has it and dont say duraleen however you spell it because i dont want that yellow crap either. Sorry i have no intention of being disrespectful i just dont know how many times i have to say im only trying to help and yes i have close connections NOT sponsorship with a tubing company and am trying and they are trying their very hardest to put out a tubing that wont cloud in anyway. but that's extremely hard as many in water cooling know. And if doing high voltage overclocking its even harder on the tubing as you can see by some that have a section coming from the cpu only that goes bad. But you have to go through this whole thread and really look at some of the photos of CPU & GPU blocks apart and you can def see some of it is def poor loop maintenance and i myself have done it also .
> 
> To put it simply i am in the same boat i just want CLEAR Tubing that holds up and im doing my best at trying to make that happen and that goes far into people who make the tubing now.But my posts way back in the beginning i did not have the support or help working on tubing. I used to post here about the testing i was doing but it was just ridiculous post after post so i have continued the testing working closely with the companies on a solution. Thats all not such a bad guy. I also find it so funny before i was sponsored i was a great guy but now that people give me a few things im not anymore?? I still spend Thousands of dollars on each build you know, just like you guys and im still me the same person you knew from before getting support.I dont and wont Lie for a company no matter who it is. I am a Modder that's what i care about and i love the community but the community that i called home here at OCN really hasn't been the same home i once knew where people helped each other ,got together and solved a problem. Now its just bashing,Trolling and insults all over the place. Well i wont say everywhere as many of you guys are still awesome but for some god awful reason have it in their heads that these companies own me or something. Again its 30 dollar tubing ! think about it. Im going to lie to all of you ruin my whole reputation over 30 dollar tubing. No i say what i say because i mean i tried others recommended here and went back to regular Primochill and found ways around the clouding. And when it does cloud ill change it and clean my loop. the joys of water cooling. Nickel plating is another one. i never owned a block that wasnt Nickel plated but i never had a bad one.Def could be just good luck though.As i def had my share of DOA's .
> 
> Anyway please don't bring this thread talking about a 5 year old issue into my build logs. Thats kind of disrespectful and i wouldn't do it to you.
> 
> And whether you want to believe it or not im on your side ,Actually i don't think anyone is on any other side as we all want the perfect tubing.and i just meant this thread is funny as its still going and its was going years before this thread started with all the brand tubing's also and coolants,and blocks,and pumps. Its water cooling a PC and we don't want H100's so we do it anyway..LOL At least its not Algae like years ago when tubing was the size of a straw.
> 
> Take Care guys and i am the same person i have always been just a bit busier ,Love all you guys here as i always have and trust me if i had something that's going to help the situation i would post it
> but mostly i try to avoid the thread as i am constantly draining loops and changing tubing almost every day helping to solve this.
> 
> Talk Soon
> *MybadOmen*
Click to expand...

The thing you keep forgetting is the fact some people are getting extreme clouding in a month's time or less just with the Primochill tubing. I'm not saying that other tubing won't cloud over time. The way you come across is that you know 100% why it is happening but don't say why. Then you turn around and say there is no problem with the tubing because you don't get the extreme clouding. You are sounding a lot like what Primochill and what they have put in their statement. Well if there isn't a problem, then why have they made a new tubing shortly after people started having a problems with their tubing? Why was this not a problem just 2 years ago? Why when other brands of tubing cloud they don't leave a white powder on the tubing? If it isn't their tubing causing the problem then what is it? We all need to know, even other companies, if it something other than the tubing so the problem can be fixed across the board.

Like I've said from the start, I'm still not 100% sure it is plasticizer we are seeing with the Primochill tubing, with other tubing it turns yellow and brown, not a white dust covering the tubing. The more I think about it and now that the new Primochill tubing is out, I believe it's the antimicrobial they impregnated into the tubing that we are seeing. I'm also thinking that high PH levels are making it worse or happen faster. I know 100% my loop had high a PH level. I hope the new tubing is the best tubing in the world and last years, but only time will tell.


----------



## FearXI

I'm using Tygon R-3603 and clouding up and starting to turning slightly greyish to black.
That's mostly coming from the CPU block so kinda worried about that.
Watching temps closely any changes I'll tear it all down for a good cleaning.
Don't plan on cleaning till spring.

ATM all temps aren't the best but not dangerous yet with my OC at rest hovering at low 30's.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FearXI*
> 
> I'm using Tygon R-3603 and clouding up and starting to turning slightly greyish to black.
> That's mostly coming from the CPU block so kinda worried about that.
> Watching temps closely any changes I'll tear it all down for a good cleaning.
> Don't plan on cleaning till spring.
> ATM all temps aren't the best but not dangerous yet with my OC at rest hovering at low 30's.


Hey FearXI eventually your Tygon R-3603 will turn going bad as this on here soon or later , after Primochill this is one of the bad cloud I ever seen it *790#post_17487045*. it will not going to grow the white stuff inside like Primochill but the cloud will be so bad as you going to see some changes in your ReS, temp will not be affected. It is easy to clear but tubing get yellowish very yellowish but it will shine again.

Durelene vs Tygon R-3603 which one ? I prefer Durelene even after the cloud and yellowish it won't show as bad like Tygon R-3603. Durelene is only able to see "Plast/haze" inside when you put another new tubing side by side. when Durelene is wet "under water" you may not tell if it has a bit of "Plast/haze" or not and the tubing itself is much cheaper than Tygon and other clear brand.


----------



## snapsimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PTCB*
> 
> Anyone with Norprene? I'd like hear how it fares compared to other tubings.


I'd like to know as well. Just got ordered some myself


----------



## FearXI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Hey FearXI eventually your Tygon R-3603 will turn going bad as this on here soon or later , after Primochill this is one of the bad cloud I ever seen it *790#post_17487045*. it will not going to grow the white stuff inside like Primochill but the cloud will be so bad as you going to see some changes in your ReS, temp will not be affected. It is easy to clear but tubing get yellowish very yellowish but it will shine again.
> Durelene vs Tygon R-3603 which one ? I prefer Durelene even after the cloud and yellowish it won't show as bad like Tygon R-3603. Durelene is only able to see "Plast/haze" inside when you put another new tubing side by side. when Durelene is wet "under water" you may not tell if it has a bit of "Plast/haze" or not and the tubing itself is much cheaper than Tygon and other clear brand.


Yup that posts tubing pictures is exactly like what I got except the slightly blacking going in and coming out of my CPU block.
Maybe the tubing doesn't deal well with dyes.

I'll be taking it down spring or if temps rise too much and try just the water and coil.

I'm not too sure why the tubing is only going dark (clouding all over the loop) around the CPU block though.


----------



## PTCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snapsimo*
> 
> I'd like to know as well. Just got ordered some myself


But now, I have your result to look forward to.









Please let us know how it goes.


----------



## Squallalaha

So, should have some New Primo Clear soon to check out and then Blue when its out coming as well.

AS far as I am concerned, this is top notch support, what more could you ask from Primo?

to the guy without the receipt, how can you expect a refund or replacement? wont happen anywhere short of fast-food restaurants.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Squallalaha*
> 
> So, should have some New Primo Clear soon to check out and then Blue when its out coming as well.
> AS far as I am concerned, this is top notch support, what more could you ask from Primo?
> to the guy without the receipt, how can you expect a refund or replacement? wont happen anywhere short of fast-food restaurants.


Ok, so whats your theory on those who have :

1)faulty Primochill LRT tubing
2)receipts for it
3)written promises to have it replaced

AND YET HAVE NOTHING FROM PRIMOCHILL?


----------



## Squallalaha

No theory sorry, maybe a YMMV is in order.

Lets see if I get mine first!?!

oh and this should get a good laugh:
http://www.primochill.com/blog/plasticizer-rumor-debunked/


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Squallalaha*
> 
> No theory sorry, maybe a YMMV is in order.
> Lets see if I get mine first!?!
> oh and this should get a good laugh:
> http://www.primochill.com/blog/plasticizer-rumor-debunked/


Yes mate, that link has provided many a laugh for fellow posters in this thread-my favorite part, is their second suggestion:

'Solution Two: *Purchase* PrimoChill's new PrimoFlex™ Advanced Tubing. This tubing will cover the entire spectrum of system loops and their variable setups and will prevent the film from ever occurring. Estimated Launch Date: Nov 1, 2012.

I know whats wrong with that solution, i wonder what others have to say?

(Hint:two major mistakes at least in solution two)









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammerforged*
> 
> I got mine last night. Havent had a chance to upload pics. Stuff is really stiff and it came with a pre flushing agent??? Sounds like this is just the scrubber but with a different name.
> Tells you to mix it with a gallon of distilled and flush your system with it then fill your loop again. Sounds like a pain....


You're kidding! -Pre flushing agent. this is a comedy of errors which just keeps getting worse.


----------



## hammerforged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Squallalaha*
> 
> No theory sorry, maybe a YMMV is in order.
> Lets see if I get mine first!?!
> oh and this should get a good laugh:
> http://www.primochill.com/blog/plasticizer-rumor-debunked/


I got mine last night. Havent had a chance to upload pics. Stuff is really stiff and it came with a pre flushing agent??? Sounds like this is just the scrubber but with a different name.

Tells you to mix it with a gallon of distilled and flush your system with it then fill your loop again. Sounds like a pain....


----------



## nyk20z3

Lets see how this Durelene holds up -


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> Lets see how this Durelene holds up -


Nice stuff man blim blim , just a heads up for you, make sure you do a good flush before you put your new tubing in action.

*PS: *** Rumors *** Primochill did some re-brand with Durelene in the Primo package.*

that's why I would love to put my hands in the new Primochill Adv tubing


----------



## squick3n

Has anyone used the whole house filtration setup for making sure radiators are free of flux? Are those systems capable of clearing out plasticizer?


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squick3n*
> 
> Has anyone used the whole house filtration setup for making sure radiators are free of flux? Are those systems capable of clearing out plasticizer?


you can use to flush you rad from debris inside the loop, but for plasticizer it may not work well, you may need to use other method to clear you blocks/rad. can you be more specific how you loop looks like so we can put you in the right direction.


----------



## squick3n

Nothing really special. GPU block, cpu block, pump/res, 3x120 rad and 2x120 rad. I was going to take everything out and clean it but was hoping that maybe putting the filter between the rads where I have some quick disconnects would do the trick


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squick3n*
> 
> Nothing really special. GPU block, cpu block, pump/res, 3x120 rad and 2x120 rad. I was going to take everything out and clean it but was hoping that maybe putting the filter between the rads where I have some quick disconnects would do the trick


it does the trick let me put you in the right direction hang on

Edited : with link
This is the DIY Water Cooler Flush System ( not my invention but it is WestCoastMods By LazyMan Invention.

Original link


----------



## 02ssei

So a week and a day running DI and a kill coil in the new Primochill Advanced tubing. So far so good... and then i put in White Mayhem's Pastel.


----------



## GoodInk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> *PS: *** Rumors *** Primochill did some re-brand with Durelene in the Primo package.*


Is this a real rumor or someone's conspiracy theory? You know can't post something like this with out backing it up, lol.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Nice stuff man blim blim , just a heads up for you, make sure you do a good flush before you put your new tubing in action.
> *PS: *** Rumors *** Primochill did some re-brand with Durelene in the Primo package.*
> that's why I would love to put my hands in the new Primochill Adv tubing


Easy there fellah









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoodInk*
> 
> Is this a real rumor or someone's conspiracy theory? You know can't post something like this with out backing it up, lol.


Skyn3t is a serious guy, so i would not think that he is just quoting any old rumour-that having been said and in the interest of transparency & fairness, lets not let this 'rumour' take on a life of it's own in this thread.

Primochill have messed up with their Primochill LRT, but they have claimed to be offering to the market a new product that will function properly, and should be given the time to back up their claims.

Regardless if i have been ignored & lied to by them etc, the idea is not to do a hatchet job on *ANY* tubing supplier/manufacturer, but in fact critisise their products if faulty, or praise them if good-its that simple









My final words to anyone who wants to investigate this 'rumour' further-write directly to Primochill and ask them if their new tubing is actually re branded tubing made by Saint-Gobain (Durelene, like Tygon are brand names of tubing made by Saint-Gobain)-that way they can answer you directly.

The truth comes out eventually anyway, but for now let them try to regain some consumer confidence-i for one will be approaching them formally on Monday to resolve my problem for the last time, if they choose to further ignore me or refuse to honour their written promise, phase two will then kick into action.


----------



## charleybwoy

A little less than 3month
Distilled Water
The Feser Company
Bought in april 2012 @ Dazmode


----------



## squick3n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> it does the trick let me put you in the right direction hang on
> Edited : with link
> This is the DIY Water Cooler Flush System ( not my invention but it is WestCoastMods By LazyMan Invention.
> Original link


Thank you! I thought I had seen someone post that in this thread. Seems like a great setup to remove any dyes if I ever go that route again


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *squick3n*
> 
> Thank you! I thought I had seen someone post that in this thread. Seems like a great setup to remove any dyes if I ever go that route again


Dont forget to add a small amount of vinegar 20-25% will do-otherwise it wont do much.

Secondly, certain colours stain tubing so much that you cant clean the tubing-worse colours are UV pink/pink/red/blue etc in that order.

Have a look at the Mayhem's thread for further info.

Good luck.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *charleybwoy*
> 
> A little less than 3month
> Distilled Water
> The Feser Company
> Bought in april 2012 @ Dazmode


That looks more like tubing 'haze', this is plasticizer :


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *charleybwoy*
> 
> Ewww, thats gross lol. So tubing haze is normal i guess? Pretty much every tubing will do it?
> Well my loop was not too bad for 3month! Good stuff i think.
> Posted it for reference honestly.


No worries mate-you posted in the right place and did the right thing, we're all here to help each other









Yes your tubing is fine, the blue tubing above was after around the same 3 month period that you quoted-so hang on to that tubing mate


----------



## charleybwoy

Ewww, thats gross lol. So tubing haze is normal i guess? Pretty much every tubing will do it?
Well my loop was not too bad for 3month! Good stuff i think.
Posted it for reference honestly.


----------



## PTCB

Haze all around! Durelene included. lol That said, I'd prefer slightly cloudy over peeling white flakes anyday.

I've just ordered some Norprene. Will report back once it's up and running.


----------



## Ceadderman

Yay plasticizer!!! Thank you PrimoChill.









~Ceadder


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> 
> Yay plasticizer!!! Thank you PrimoChill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Hey Ceadder welcome to the *Thread : Plasticizer Problems / Discussion / Gallery*. i'm not laugh of your disgrace but I was waiting for you to speak out and loud since my post on page 80. I'm try to remember wen Primo had a good bath but it was so so long a go that o got lost in the way. I wish all the best for you , now its time to work your a$$ of and clear they mess in your blocks.


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Ok, so whats your theory on those who have :
> 1)faulty Primochill LRT tubing
> 2)receipts for it
> 3)written promises to have it replaced
> AND YET HAVE NOTHING FROM PRIMOCHILL?


I have a tracking number, my advanced tubing will be here soon. So they have done right by me!


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> I have a tracking number, my advanced tubing will be here soon. So they have done right by me!


So you will be send me some of your primo adv tubing?


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> So you will be send me some of your primo adv tubing?


HAHA! Your dreaming bud!


----------



## kkorky

Originally Posted by kkorky

Ok, so whats your theory on those who have :
1)faulty Primochill LRT tubing
2)receipts for it
3)written promises to have it replaced
AND YET HAVE NOTHING FROM PRIMOCHILL?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> I have a tracking number, my advanced tubing will be here soon. So they have done right by me!


So what does this have to do with my post?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> So you will be send me some of your primo adv tubing?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> HAHA! Your dreaming bud!


Actually No! Why should he be dreaming? he was asking for a piece to test-im sure that many of us that had new tubing that was released on the market, would spare a piece to have it tested-we all help each other here-ofc you are under no obligation to do so, but in the spirit of this thread, it would be helpful, but wait, as you said in your post 'they have done right by *ME*', so its ok mate.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> You said "written promises to have it replaced
> AND YET HAVE NOTHING FROM PRIMOCHILL?"
> I am saying i have had my tubing not replaced but i got to keep it and get new tubing free.
> So? They have kept there written promise with me.
> I see the relevance.


Your logic astounds me-you were asked to provide a 'theory', and your reply is 'I got mine'! wow is all i can say, you're also the guy who said that the plasticizer problem has been solved based on an advertising claim-what are you going to do if that new tubing of yours clouds up mate?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XViper2*
> 
> I'm going to have to second that. I also received my tracking number for my new advance tubing.
> I'm not saying it's the best they can do as in some extreme cases, a pump failed. I think it's a start and for now I'm alright.
> If this works good, then I don't see the issue. The company could have just ignored all these posts and bad press but they seem to be trying.


funny how all of a sudden all these new accounts keep popping up praising Primochill-but i digress

Try to read, what was originally posted, and not what you want to see, then answer the question-its not hard to do.
As for ignoring the bad press, well they tried to in the beginning, by initially saying that the problem had nothing to do with their tubing.

Its only after hundreds of unhappy users found a place to voice their displeasure, that Primochill decided to attempt damage control, by releasing an insulting plasticizer dis-claimant, saying that all is ok etc etc etc.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XViper2*
> 
> I'm fairly new yes but Socks is not.
> Try submitting a ticket with a critical and attach the proof of purchase. I don't work for Primochill.


Try reading earlier posts, i even have e mails from the CEO of Primochill promising to fix matters, i had submitted photos etc way before many of you guys even knew that you had plasticizer problems or knew what plasticizer even was









I know that its a pain to have to go through hundreds of previous posts, but one cant objectively comment, or as you did in my case-give advice if you havent seen what transpired before.

Nevertheless thank you for your advice


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> So what does this have to do with my post? -_-


You said "written promises to have it replaced
AND YET HAVE NOTHING FROM PRIMOCHILL?"
I am saying i have had my tubing not replaced but i got to keep it and get new tubing free.
So? They have kept there written promise with me.
I see the relevance.


----------



## XViper2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> You said "written promises to have it replaced
> AND YET HAVE NOTHING FROM PRIMOCHILL?"
> I am saying i have had my tubing not replaced but i got to keep it and get new tubing free.
> So? They have kept there written promise with me.
> I see the relevance.


I'm going to have to second that. I also received my tracking number for my new advance tubing.

I'm not saying it's the best they can do as in some extreme cases, a pump failed. I think it's a start and for now I'm alright.

If this works good, then I don't see the issue. The company could have just ignored all these posts and bad press but they seem to be trying.


----------



## kkorky

Mod plse delete-ive moved the content above to avoid DP-thanks


----------



## XViper2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> You as well?? lol (funny how all of a sudden all these new accounts keep popping up praising Primochill-but i digress)
> Try to read, what was originally posted, and not what you want to see, then answer the question-its not hard to do.


I'm fairly new yes but Socks is not.

Try submitting a ticket with a critical and attach the proof of purchase. I don't work for Primochill.


----------



## kj1060

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> it does the trick let me put you in the right direction hang on
> Edited : with link
> This is the DIY Water Cooler Flush System ( not my invention but it is WestCoastMods By LazyMan Invention.
> Original link


Sorry if this is redundant, but does the method work for cleaning blocks or will blocks have to be taken apart and inspected?


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kj1060*
> 
> Sorry if this is redundant, but does the method work for cleaning blocks or will blocks have to be taken apart and inspected?


It will partially work on the blocks, but the best way to go would be to strip your blocks-the reason being that the cooling fins inside of the block can also act as a filter, trapping any debris inside-so you'll have to make sure that, that's not the case.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kj1060*
> 
> Okay thanks. Again sorry if this is redundant, but what is the suggested method for cleaning blocks, rads, reservoirs, and pumps of possible plasticizer buildup?


Grab a small tooth brush to do the fins, grab some ketchup (for copper blocks/bases) place it on the area that is tarnished or needs cleaning for about 5-10 min, scrub it with your tooth brush rinse with normal water, then rinse again with Distilled water.
Stubborn pieces of plasticizer that may be trapped between fins may be removed with a sewing needle









Same needle process for nickel based blocks, but no ketchup-the vinegar in the ketchup left on for that long in direct contact may ruin the nickel finish-many use nickel cleaner(available at your automotive dealer) and after any tarnishing has been removed, then rinse with distilled water.
Obviously if the block has no signs of anything , just re assemble and you're good to go.

Rads youre in trouble due to the nature of plasticizer-it does not shift easily im afraid to say-you could try boiling water(*WEAR GLOVES!!!!*) and give it a good old shake about, but i doubt it will do much.

Pumps/reservoirs-strip and clean with distilled water and a soft cloth etc. then re rinse to get rid of any fibers the cloth may have left.
(*NOTE:* in most instances, although plasticizer may be heavily present in tubing, it does *NOT* seem to appear in reservoirs, or pumps)

Hope this helped mate


----------



## kj1060

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> It will partially work on the blocks, but the best way to go would be to strip your blocks-the reason being that the cooling fins inside of the block can also act as a filter, trapping any debris inside-so you'll have to make sure that, that's not the case.


Okay thanks. Again sorry if this is redundant, but what is the suggested method for cleaning blocks, rads, reservoirs, and pumps of possible plasticizer buildup?


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> 
> Yay plasticizer!!! Thank you PrimoChill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Ceadder welcome to the *Thread : Plasticizer Problems / Discussion / Gallery*. i'm not laugh of your disgrace but I was waiting for you to speak out and loud since my post on page 80. I'm try to remember wen Primo had a good bath but it was so so long a go that o got lost in the way. I wish all the best for you , now its time to work your a$$ of and clear they mess in your blocks.
Click to expand...

Could you post it again? I've been here pretty much since the beginning. Sometimes I miss a couple days worth of posts an when I do I generally skip ahead.









~Ceadder


----------



## chrisf4lc0n

Here is my input, the tube I was using was an original Zalman Clear Tubing, which comes with Reserator 1 V2:




That is just after 3 months of using it in my loop. Believe it or not it was clear when I installed it!
*Conclusion is not to use Zalman Clear Tubing!!*


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisf4lc0n*
> 
> Here is my input, the tube I was using was an original Zalman Clear Tubing, which comes with Reserator 1 V2:
> 
> 
> That is just after 3 months of using it in my loop. Believe it or not it was clear when I installed it!
> *Conclusion is not to use Zalman Clear Tubing!!*


I hate to say this but the result you posted above is not true.I know how exactly this tubing had become like that. this tubing has been merged into water for quite some time or cooked in a warm water.The tubing has the same color all the way even where the fittings were. Any Tubing with Plasticizer/ haze problem will look like this picture bellow. always like this clean around where the fittings were.



More picture here post #1872 of 1957 a bunch more here post #796 of 1957 even more here this is how the tubing become all white post #811 of 1957 and here posted by very respectful Mike Mayhems post #830 of 1957

PS: i just had to fix what you posted.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Could you post it again? I've been here pretty much since the beginning.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> *Sometimes I miss a couple days worth of posts*
> 
> 
> 
> an when I do I generally skip ahead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
Click to expand...

A many pages a go way way back you said and was thinking you had a good bath of primochill tubing with no sign of plasticizer . so since this day you never had opened your loop to look into it. I may be wrong * sorry if I'm wrong * like you said above *I quoted* sadly in the end you end up like everybody else here.

with spelling now







Quote:


> Hey Ceadder welcome to the Thread : Plasticizer Problems / Discussion / Gallery. i'm not laugh of your disgrace but I was waiting for you to speak out and loud since my post on page 80. I'm try to remember when Primochill had a good bath of tubing. but it was so so long a go that i got lost in the way. I wish all the best for you , now its time to work your a$$ off and clean the mess in your blocks.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> HAHA! Your dreaming bud!


I just posted it to see how you going to react. and I was right.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XViper2*
> 
> I'm going to have to second that. I also received my tracking number for my new advance tubing.
> I'm not saying it's the best they can do as in some extreme cases, a pump failed. I think it's a start and for now I'm alright.
> If this works good, then I don't see the issue. The company could have just ignored all these posts and *bad press but they seem to be trying*.


trying hard to blame us for users,consumers people that had no idea how water cooling works WC beginners fault. this is the only thing i know from primochill even some good pc modders here have sold them out for free stuff. this is ridiculous.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XViper2*
> 
> I'm fairly new yes but Socks is not.
> Try submitting a ticket with a critical and attach the proof of purchase. I don't work for Primochill.


It doesn't mean that he knows what hes talk about.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kj1060*
> 
> Sorry if this is redundant, but does the method work for cleaning blocks or will blocks have to be taken apart and inspected?


This will be up to you,"This is called peace of mind". if you think the blocks needs to be open then do it. can you post some pictures of your bad experience and may be we can tell you what or not to do.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> Don't worry about him mate, we get a few *(deleted by mod)* in the system. He won't be around long


reality is the case like when you spit in the wind, it might come back in your face. says what you like to say but no insults.


----------



## chrisf4lc0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I hate to say this but the result you posted above is not true.I know how exactly this tubing had become like that. this tubing has been merged into water for quite some time or cooked in a warm water.The tubing has the same color all the way even where the fittings were. Any Tubing with Plasticizer/ haze problem will look like this picture bellow. always like this clean around where the fittings were.
> 
> 
> 
> More picture here post #1872 of 1957 a bunch more here post #796 of 1957 even more here this is how the tubing become all white post #811 of 1957 and here posted by very respectful Mike Mayhems post #830 of 1957
> 
> PS: i just had to fix what you posted.


So, that is not a plasticizer? It was submerge in the water, I was using it as an extender inside the Reserator, to allow the warm water to go to the top of the tank.








Does it mean this tubing will not have problems with plasticizer?
Sorry for posting wrong data, but I was sure that it was plasticizer problem


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisf4lc0n*
> 
> So, that is not a plasticizer? It was submerge in the water, I was using it as an extender inside the Reserator, to allow the warm water to go to the top of the tank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does it mean this tubing will not have problems with plasticizer?
> Sorry for posting wrong data, but I was sure that it was plasticizer problem


after it dry it will become clear again. If the tubing has some kinda haze inside them will be plasticizer. I doubt Plasticizer will be generate like that. Plasticizer can be generate in two to tree weeks after this period it become worse like you have seeing here can gunk and can damage some components like pump.

for exemple:

How pump can be damage by gunk+plasticizer?
my pump run a 12v @ 4250RPM, let's say you have gunk in the loop and you notice that your pump won't spin like before 4250RPM to 3750RPM the voltage will be the same 12v but it spin only 3750RPM and it make the pump work hotter than before. is the same think when you drive a car with the E-brake ON. car runbs slow and your well get's hotter right. same this happen with the pump. in another words you are degraded the pump life making the pump work with the same voltage but spinning less by pressure.

GoodInk had his pump damaged by gunk+plasticizer read up Potentia et Decor-WC Lian Li A70F By GoodInk


----------



## chrisf4lc0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> after it dry it will become clear again. If the tubing has some kinda haze inside them will be plasticizer. I doubt Plasticizer will be generate like that. Plasticizer can be generate in two to tree weeks after this period it become worse like you have seeing here can gunk and can damage some components like pump.
> 
> for exemple:
> 
> How pump can be damage by gunk?
> my pump run a 12v @ 4250RPM, let's say you have gunk in the loop and you notice that your pump won't spin like before 4250RPM to 3750RPM the voltage will be the same 12v but it spin only 3750RPM and it make the pump work hotter than before. is the same think when you drive a car with the E-brake ON. car runbs slow and your well get's hotter right. same this happen with the pump. in another words you are degraded the pump life making the pump work with the same voltage but spinning less by pressure.


Hold on, but it has dry out! It had not have any contact with water for about 5 months before the photo was taken!


----------



## rdr09

if you care to know . . . my duralene has been in service for over a month and still as clear as the first time it was installed.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisf4lc0n*
> 
> Hold on, but it has dry out! It had not have any contact with water for about 5 months before the photo was taken!


then you cooked the tubing like a chicken







all white without condiments.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdr09*
> 
> if you care to know . . . my duralene has been in service for over a month and still as clear as the first time it was installed.


rdr09, Nice to know bud you are free of having cream cheese in the loop.


----------



## kj1060

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> It will partially work on the blocks, but the best way to go would be to strip your blocks-the reason being that the cooling fins inside of the block can also act as a filter, trapping any debris inside-so you'll have to make sure that, that's not the case.
> Grab a small tooth brush to do the fins, grab some ketchup (for copper blocks/bases) place it on the area that is tarnished or needs cleaning for about 5-10 min, scrub it with your tooth brush rinse with normal water, then rinse again with Distilled water.
> Stubborn pieces of plasticizer that may be trapped between fins may be removed with a sewing needle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same needle process for nickel based blocks, but no ketchup-the vinegar in the ketchup left on for that long in direct contact may ruin the nickel finish-many use nickel cleaner(available at your automotive dealer) and after any tarnishing has been removed, then rinse with distilled water.
> Obviously if the block has no signs of anything , just re assemble and you're good to go.
> Rads youre in trouble due to the nature of plasticizer-it does not shift easily im afraid to say-you could try boiling water(*WEAR GLOVES!!!!*) and give it a good old shake about, but i doubt it will do much.
> Pumps/reservoirs-strip and clean with distilled water and a soft cloth etc. then re rinse to get rid of any fibers the cloth may have left.
> (*NOTE:* in most instances, although plasticizer may be heavily present in tubing, it does *NOT* seem to appear in reservoirs, or pumps)
> Hope this helped mate


This helps immensely. Never done a water cooled pc before and it kind of sucks that this will be one of the first things I have to deal with.







I haven't seen a general consensus on this, but does plasticizer generally just stay in the tubing? Or should I be worried about the radiators?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> This will be up to you,"This is called peace of mind". if you think the blocks needs to be open then do it. can you post some pictures of your bad experience and may be we can tell you what or not to do.


Yes I was asking because this is the first time I have ever done a liquid cooled pc. I will post some pictures when I break open the loop. I am currently still waiting on some parts for expanding my loop. I will say this though I can not see my two silver kill coils that I put in before the GPU and CPU blocks. I am going to be trying Tygon R3400 this time around.

+rep to both of you.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kj1060*
> 
> This helps immensely. Never done a water cooled pc before and it kind of sucks that this will be one of the first things I have to deal with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't seen a general consensus on this, but does plasticizer generally just stay in the tubing? Or should I be worried about the radiators?
> Yes I was asking because this is the first time I have ever done a liquid cooled pc. I will post some pictures when I break open the loop. I am currently still waiting on some parts for expanding my loop. I will say this though I can not see my two silver kill coils that I put in before the GPU and CPU blocks. I am going to be trying Tygon R3400 this time around.
> +rep to both of you.


I don't know about this Tygon R3400, have you looked into this one here Durelene PVC tubing 3/8in. ID 5/8in. if you are new to WC just go easy on parts it will going to cost a lot before you decide wich parts you going to keep.


----------



## kj1060

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I don't know about this Tygon R3400, have you looked into this one here Durelene PVC tubing 3/8in. ID 5/8in. if you are new to WC just go easy on parts it will going to cost a lot before you decide wich parts you going to keep.


I considered Durelene, but I don't really want clear tubing. I was recommend the Tygon R3400 by Xnine. I still consider myself new to water cooling even though I have had my loop running since May. I switched out the original tubing, Primochill UV Red, in July for the remainder of the tubing I originally bought.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kj1060*
> 
> I considered Durelene, but I don't really want clear tubing. I was recommend the Tygon R3400 by Xnine. I still consider myself new to water cooling even though I have had my loop running since May. I switched out the original tubing, Primochill UV Red, in July for the remainder of the tubing I originally bought.


did you order black tygon yet? if not just give a bit of time i need to look into my invoices here and i think i had got this bath before I'm not sure. this tubing is very different from what we normally use.

Edited: This tubing is very fragil it kink like a straw from MCdonald's lol man I'm serious looks like it made of a cheap plastic. it may work for you but didn't out for me. but I did found a good use for the TygonR3400 i made a giant circle like arena in a cardboard box for my kid to play BayBlade with they friends







I swear of God, that's what i did . I did posted it here.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Could you post it again? I've been here pretty much since the beginning.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> *Sometimes I miss a couple days worth of posts*
> 
> 
> 
> an when I do I generally skip ahead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A many pages a go way way back you said and was thinking you had a good bath of primochill tubing with no sign of plasticizer . so since this day you never had opened your loop to look into it. I may be wrong * sorry if I'm wrong * like you said above *I quoted* sadly in the end you end up like everybody else here.
> 
> with spelling now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Ceadder welcome to the Thread : Plasticizer Problems / Discussion / Gallery. i'm not laugh of your disgrace but I was waiting for you to speak out and loud since my post on page 80. I'm try to remember when Primochill had a good bath of tubing. but it was so so long a go that i got lost in the way. I wish all the best for you , now its time to work your a$$ off and clean the mess in your blocks.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Oh okay I see where you were going with that now. Sadly no I don't have a good batch. It's still localized to my tubing and not getting into my blocks yet but I'll know more when I pull my CPU block to start the RMA process on my CPU.

To clarify though, it wasn't that I had a good batch(that was more hope than anything else) but that I thought that additives could be speeding up the leeching process since the tubing has an additive embedded in it to prevent algae growth from happening. I don't run additives. No Kill Coil no PT Nuke, no nothing. Straight distilled. And nope it's not a good batch of tubing. Leaving the "c" out of the word "batch" was what confused the bejeezies out of me. All good, I now have what you meant figured out now. Thanks for the reminder.









~Ceadder


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Oh okay I see where you were going with that now. Sadly no I don't have a good batch. It's still localized to my tubing and not getting into my blocks yet but I'll know more when I pull my CPU block to start the RMA process on my CPU.
> To clarify though, it wasn't that I had a good batch(that was more hope than anything else) but that I thought that additives could be speeding up the leeching process since the tubing has an additive embedded in it to prevent algae growth from happening. I don't run additives. No Kill Coil no PT Nuke, no nothing. Straight distilled. And nope it's not a good batch of tubing. Leaving the "c" out of the word "batch" was what confused the bejeezies out of me. All good, I now have what you meant figured out now. Thanks for the reminder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


No worries bro, just pass the beer and everything will be good


----------



## kj1060

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> did you order black tygon yet? if not just give a bit of time i need to look into my invoices here and i think i had got this bath before I'm not sure. this tubing is very different from what we normally use.
> Edited: This tubing is very fragil it kink like a straw from MCdonald's lol man I'm serious looks like it made of a cheap plastic. it may work for you but didn't out for me. but I did found a good use for the TygonR3400 i made a giant circle like arena in a cardboard box for my kid to play BayBlade with they friends
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I swear of God, that's what i did .


Yes I have already ordered and received the Tygon. It is definitely stiffer then the Primochill is (still have a couple of pieces I never used).

Edit: As long as it doesn't plasticize like the Primochill I will be happy. I didn't have too much trouble running into kinks before.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kj1060*
> 
> This helps immensely. Never done a water cooled pc before and it kind of sucks that this will be one of the first things I have to deal with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't seen a general consensus on this, but does plasticizer generally just stay in the tubing? Or should I be worried about the radiators?
> Yes I was asking because this is the first time I have ever done a liquid cooled pc. I will post some pictures when I break open the loop. I am currently still waiting on some parts for expanding my loop. I will say this though I can not see my two silver kill coils that I put in before the GPU and CPU blocks. I am going to be trying Tygon R3400 this time around.
> +rep to both of you.


Generally mate its a tubing confined problem, there have been cases of plasticizer metastasising to other components of the loop, but they are in the minority.

Just keep an eye on your tubing ,use a pinch test, and your basic good old eye sight







(pinch test=pinch the tubing to see if it leaves any clear areas there where you have pinched, if so and the difference is very noticeable, id suggest that you swap out your tubing, but we're talking 2-3 months here, so no need to panic.)

The main thing is to enjoy what your doing, and don't worry about such problems, even a Ferrari needs tuning every so often-if i was you, i'd worry more about, where the next set of cash is going to come from to buy new gear, after you get truly bitten by the wc bug









Also if you are worried, just post pics, and describe your problem, there are many people capable of helping you. good luck mate


----------



## hammerforged

Got my Primochill advanced tubing in. Here are some pictures:





Durelene on the left



Durelene on the right





Thoughts:

The new Primochill is much stiffer and has a yellowish tent to it. Not much but when compared to the Durelene it is slightly yellow. The new Primochill is much stiffer than the Durelene and seems to be more resistant to kinking than the Durelene. Im not sure whats up with this whole system prep thing but I cant see myself using it if I were to every use this Primochill tubing. If anyone has any other questions please ask and Ill be sure to answer. Also if anyone wants more pictures or test as well please just let me know.


----------



## kj1060

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Generally mate its a tubing confined problem, there have been cases of plasticizer metastasising to other components of the loop, but they are in the minority.
> Just keep an eye on your tubing ,use a pinch test, and your basic good old eye sight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (pinch test=pinch the tubing to see if it leaves any clear areas there where you have pinched, if so and the difference is very noticeable, id suggest that you swap out your tubing, but we're talking 2-3 months here, so no need to panic.)
> The main thing is to enjoy what your doing, and don't worry about such problems, even a Ferrari needs tuning every so often-if i was you, i'd worry more about, where the next set of cash is going to come from to buy new gear, after you get truly bitten by the wc bug
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also if you are worried, just post pics, and describe your problem, there are many people capable of helping you. good luck mate


That is definitely some sage advice. Unfortunately it can sometime be hard to remember when you have put some much money and time into the project. However I will have to try and keep it in mind once I break down the loop.


----------



## NomNomNom

Been running duralene for two years, slight hazing/yellowing.


----------



## chrisf4lc0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> then you cooked the tubing like a chicken
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> all white without condiments.


I did not know I could cook chicken in 30C







, but I suppose it would be enough to cook a tube


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I just posted it to see how you going to react. and I was right.
> trying hard to blame us for users,consumers people that had no idea how water cooling works WC beginners fault. this is the only thing i know from primochill even some good pc modders here have sold them out for free stuff. this is ridiculous.
> It doesn't mean that he knows what hes talk about.
> This will be up to you,"This is called peace of mind". if you think the blocks needs to be open then do it. can you post some pictures of your bad experience and may be we can tell you what or not to do.
> reality is the case like when you spit in the wind, it might come back in your face. says what you like to say but no insults.


Yeah I just received an infraction, oh well I can't stand people like that so i just blocked him


----------



## skyn3t

Sorry to hear that. But we do learn from our mistakes. I had couple infractions in the past. Just lay low a bit your words and everything will be alright.

Bob Marley


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Sorry to hear that. But we do learn from our mistakes. I had couple infractions in the past. Just lay low a bit your words and everything will be alright.
> Bob Marley


Haha i will, it makes me feel like crap seeing that infraction wanted a good rep in this community., oh well i will have to learn to deal with people how i deal with people in real life.
Also back on topic, i tried a month ago to place a bucket of 60c water with my tubing which had plasticized, left it for an hour and rolled it for a good 10 minutes and nothing happened.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisf4lc0n*
> 
> I did not know I could cook chicken in 30C
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , but I suppose it would be enough to cook a tube


Of course we can cook a chicken with 30c even the tubing lol you just did. Now serious, ask your self this. how long I had my loop running 30C/OC/Gaming/Prime95/Benchmark? you just wet way more than 30C.


----------



## Dontfeedjay

So, as someone who is just now finally getting into WC my PC, I was really wanting to go with red tubing for a black/red color scheme in the case. Any ideas on what brand to use anymore? I keep seeing pics of plasticizer from primochill, so hopefully someone can shed some light on what is a good brand to use.

Also, I am not against going with black tubes with red kink coils.

Thanks!


----------



## kkorky

@skyn3t/Ceaderman,

Information etc sent as promised-now we wait.........................


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dontfeedjay*
> 
> So, as someone who is just now finally getting into WC my PC, I was really wanting to go with red tubing for a black/red color scheme in the case. Any ideas on what brand to use anymore? I keep seeing pics of plasticizer from primochill, so hopefully someone can shed some light on what is a good brand to use.
> Also, I am not against going with black tubes with red kink coils.
> Thanks!


right now you have 2 option.

Sent from Windows Mail
1 - Go with PrimoChill that has your desire color and have a cream cheese for free.








2 - Go with Durelene ( you will have a very slight haze in the end but nothing to harm your system. read up some of my last post when you will see it.). and use Mayhems Dye or Premix this is my recommendation anything off of this will be to gunk you system. Mike ( owner ) he give us a directly support Mayhems users club

I'm try to put my hands on PrimoChill Adv tubing for testing. as soon i have a bit of this tubing i can tell you if it will pass my testing or not.


----------



## Rakin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dontfeedjay*
> 
> So, as someone who is just now finally getting into WC my PC, I was really wanting to go with red tubing for a black/red color scheme in the case. Any ideas on what brand to use anymore? I keep seeing pics of plasticizer from primochill, so hopefully someone can shed some light on what is a good brand to use.
> Also, I am not against going with black tubes with red kink coils.
> Thanks!


I'll suggest you what kkorky suggested me. Clear tubing (Tygon/Masterkleer/Clear Flex/Duraline) with Mayhems Red/Black Dye.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> @skyn3t/Ceaderman,
> Information etc sent as promised-now we wait.........................


got it ccorcy


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> @skyn3t/Ceaderman,
> Information etc sent as promised-now we wait.........................
> 
> 
> 
> got it ccorcy
Click to expand...











~Ceadder


----------



## charleybwoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammerforged*
> 
> Got my Primochill advanced tubing in. Here are some pictures:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Durelene on the left
> 
> Durelene on the right
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thoughts:
> The new Primochill is much stiffer and has a yellowish tent to it. Not much but when compared to the Durelene it is slightly yellow. The new Primochill is much stiffer than the Durelene and seems to be more resistant to kinking than the Durelene. Im not sure whats up with this whole system prep thing but I cant see myself using it if I were to every use this Primochill tubing. If anyone has any other questions please ask and Ill be sure to answer. Also if anyone wants more pictures or test as well please just let me know.


Im actually very interested to know a bit more about it, im about to order some tubing.

Otherwise, what other brand would you suggest for clear tubing (mayhems gigabyte orange) ??


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *charleybwoy*
> 
> Im actually very interested to know a bit more about it, im about to order some tubing.
> Otherwise, what other brand would you suggest for clear tubing (mayhems gigabyte orange) ??


Mick from Mayhem's suggests either Clearflex 60 or Masteekleer mate.

Have a look at his thread, and choose the tubing that suits the type of coolant you want to use:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1286896/mayhems-users-club

Hope this helps make your choice easier


----------



## charleybwoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Mick from Mayhem's suggests either Clearflex 60 or Masteekleer mate.
> Have a look at his thread, and choose the tubing that suits the type of coolant you want to use:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1286896/mayhems-users-club
> Hope this helps make your choice easier


Thank you very much, very appreciated


----------



## kj1060

So I was curious if my block manufacturers had a suggested way of cleaning their blocks and I received a response from Swiftech today. It pointed me to this page on their website.
Quote:


> How Do I Clean My Loop?
> Cleaning your loop the "green way"
> 
> Pine oil (a phenolic disinfectant) is an essential oil used in cleaning products such as Pine-Sol and similar products. We recommend using the original Pine-Sol® brand (which is a Clorox® product), because of its wide-spread availability worldwide, but you can also purchase pine oil from various sources online as well as many local health food stores. Please consult online resources for concentration if preparing your own mix.
> 
> Procedure Pre-requisites
> 
> CRITICAL: Unplug the power connector to the motherboard! Components (CPU, GPU, etc..) should not be running during the cleaning procedure.
> 
> Use either a test-plug, or short-out pin 14 (connecting the green wire to a black wire using a paper-clip) so that your power-supply will start-up and power your pump. Alternatively, use a separate power supply if available to power-up your pump.
> 
> Cleaning procedure
> 
> 1. Mix (1) one to (2) two table-spoons of Pine-Sol® brand detergent to 1 Gallon of Distilled water; for a more vigorous cleaning you may use only 1/2 gallon if your system is very dirty or severely polluted with algae growth.
> 
> 2. Cleaning: fill-up the loop, and run it with this mixture for several hours (no less than 3).
> 
> 3. Rinsing: drain the mixture, then refill the loop with pure distilled water and run the system for no less that 30 min to rinse (you may run it longer if higher concentration of Pine-Sol was used).
> 
> 4. Final rinse: drain the dirty rinse water, and refill the loop again with distilled water, and run the system again for no less than 20 minutes.
> 
> 5. Completely drain the final rinse water; your system is now ready to be refilled with coolant.
> 
> Recommended Coolant: we recommend using a mix of 10% Hydrx + distilled water (1 bottle Hydrx to ½ Liter distilled water).
> 
> Reference:
> 
> Pine-Sol® Contents (per manufacturer)
> Primary ingredient: Pine Oil (about 10%)
> Secondary ingredients: Alkyl alcohol ethoxylates, Isopropyl alcohol, and sodium petroleum sulfonate (sufractants)


While I am very inclined to believe them, however I was just curious if anyone else had heard or tried this before? I have yet to contact XSPC.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kj1060*
> 
> So I was curious if my block manufacturers had a suggested way of cleaning their blocks and I received a response from Swiftech today. It pointed me to this page on their website.
> While I am very inclined to believe them, however I was just curious if anyone else had heard or tried this before? I have yet to contact XSPC.


I always have pine sol at home and it does clean where you need. seams to be good I do not disagree better using a clorox or vinegar to clean the loop. pine sol looks more friendly.


----------



## kj1060

I agree, I am a bit shocked that this is the first time I am seeing this sort of information. I just fired off an email to XSPC asking what they recommended, as well as the effects of Pine-Sol on their block. Hopefully they will get back to me in the near future.


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I was waiting for this for long long time and finally someone got the guts to post the real DEAL of bad side of this crap SYS SCRUB cleaner. I know it will leave a lot of crap inside the blocks. This gel stuck in your blocks eventually it will going to transform in some kinda corrosion and from that it will eat the rest of you blocks and rad with NO DOUBT.
> have you seen it? *feniks* may turn out like this in the future. who knows
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I will never wait to see this happen, this is on of my big concern.


That has nothing to do with plasticizer or sys scrub,that is what happens when you mix Alu and copper

Another Apogee,another Fail....


----------



## chrisf4lc0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I was waiting for this for long long time and finally someone got the guts to post the real DEAL of bad side of this crap SYS SCRUB cleaner. I know it will leave a lot of crap inside the blocks. This gel stuck in your blocks eventually it will going to transform in some kinda corrosion and from that it will eat the rest of you blocks and rad with NO DOUBT.
> have you seen it? *feniks* may turn out like this in the future. who knows
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I will never wait to see this happen, this is on of my big concern.
> 
> 
> 
> That has nothing to do with plasticizer or sys scrub,that is what happens when you mix Alu and copper
> 
> Another Apogee,another Fail....
Click to expand...

You have made me paranoid peeps, so I opened my EK Supremacy... and except a bit of fluff and one pube all clear. I opened it after 9 months of using Masterkleer and Mayhems Blueberry Coolant.









*After cleaning everything I put it back and must have put too much TIM as my temps have gone up








I will have to re-do it tomorrow.*

P.S. For 3 months I was using the block with Zalman Reserator which is made of anodized aluminium and it survived









*Edit: The tubes have become a bit cloudy, but nothing major and no gunk has been released into the loop yet...*


----------



## B NEGATIVE

You have no need to worry about that destruction.
It was caused by the Apogee having an Alu top and a Copper plate....fail by Swiftech.


----------



## DiGiCiDAL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> You have no need to worry about that destruction.
> It was caused by the Apogee having an Alu top and a Copper plate....fail by Swiftech.


And that is troubling in so many ways. It's understandable that an enthusiast (or three) with no plumbing or chemistry knowledge might be ignorant of galvanic corrosion and how it occurs. However, as a manufacturer of a part (on which you are at least betting the company's reputation if not it's liquidity) - you would think you would:
A) Hire someone with experience with metal pipes and fittings used to carry water - I think they might even have one in the phone book.








B) Spend a few minutes reading any of a thousand articles on the web about metals, water, corrosion, etc.
C) Use all of a single material in the construction of your part so that any issues can at least be equally attributable to OTHER parts in the system rather than yours.







(This seems most common unfortunately).

"Fail" doesn't adequately describe that idiocy IMO.

I had to make a change in my loop due to buying a Dell 30" rather than a third 7970 so I pulled my first tube length (pump->GPU1) and cut another section so I could examine it. It's XSPC black tubing from PPC. Absolutely nothing in the tube after ~3 weeks - I mean not even a haze (so I didn't bother taking a pic). However, I think the temperature is a HUGE component in plasticizer leech (especially as it pertains to the Primochill Pro stuff). My loop even under heavy use (benching and BTC mining) never sees the water temperature get over 33C... and at idle the water is ~26C so I'm thinking I probably wouldn't have seen too much leeching even if I'd gone with the Primochill tubing I had. But better safe than sorry for my ~$30!.


----------



## chrisf4lc0n

Everyone is prizing Durelene for the lack of Plasticizer problems, but I could not find it anywhere in Europe...
I will be water cooling my Xbox 360 and I wanted to build a maintenance free loop, so Durelene would be ideal...

Point me in the right direction, please.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisf4lc0n*
> 
> Everyone is prizing Durelene for the lack of Plasticizer problems, but I could not find it anywhere in Europe...
> I will be water cooling my Xbox 360 and I wanted to build a maintenance free loop, so Durelene would be ideal...
> Point me in the right direction, please.


Hey Chris-yes you are correct in saying that it is not sold in Europe, you can get it in the States mainly here:http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/othertubing.html

Im sure that a couple of other places sell it in the States as well, but Sidewinder seems to have the edge on others-*BE PREPARED FOR A RIDICULOUS SHIPPING CHARGE TO EUROPE*- (just use their postage calculator on the page after you enter the amount of tubing that you want-please remember that the tubing is in feet not metres







)
*
EXAMPLE OF SHIPPING RATES TO THE UK:*



BTW-very nice Lian Li X box-very tasty (sorry, for not replying sooner- ive been very busy this week)


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiGiCiDAL*
> 
> And that is troubling in so many ways. It's understandable that an enthusiast (or three) with no plumbing or chemistry knowledge might be ignorant of galvanic corrosion and how it occurs. However, as a manufacturer of a part (on which you are at least betting the company's reputation if not it's liquidity) - you would think you would:
> A) Hire someone with experience with metal pipes and fittings used to carry water - I think they might even have one in the phone book.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B) Spend a few minutes reading any of a thousand articles on the web about metals, water, corrosion, etc.
> C) Use all of a single material in the construction of your part so that any issues can at least be equally attributable to OTHER parts in the system rather than yours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (This seems most common unfortunately).
> "Fail" doesn't adequately describe that idiocy IMO.
> I had to make a change in my loop due to buying a Dell 30" rather than a third 7970 so I pulled my first tube length (pump->GPU1) and cut another section so I could examine it. It's XSPC black tubing from PPC. Absolutely nothing in the tube after ~3 weeks - I mean not even a haze (so I didn't bother taking a pic). However, I think the temperature is a HUGE component in plasticizer leech (especially as it pertains to the Primochill Pro stuff). My loop even under heavy use (benching and BTC mining) never sees the water temperature get over 33C... and at idle the water is ~26C so I'm thinking I probably wouldn't have seen too much leeching even if I'd gone with the Primochill tubing I had. But better safe than sorry for my ~$30!.


It is coated Alu,just not coated well enough...All it takes is a pin hole to start that damage off.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> It is coated Alu,just not coated well enough...All it takes is a pin hole to start that damage off.


Less that that brother


----------



## vaporizer

Subbed


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vaporizer*
> 
> Subbed


Wow.


----------



## discipline

Just ordered some Durelene PVC tubing from sidewinder and some clear blue UV mayhems dye. Replacing some dangerden dreamflex I bought when they just released it. I heavily suspect the inside to be coated with plasticizer since its been about 11 months since I put it together. Holy crap I didn't realize it had been that long. I see a little bit of clear residue build up along the top of the waterline in my res but I'll post my results since there doesn't seem to be too much on the dangerden dreamflex tubing.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discipline*
> 
> Just ordered some Durelene PVC tubing from sidewinder and some clear blue UV mayhems dye. Replacing some dangerden dreamflex I bought when they just released it. I heavily suspect the inside to be coated with plasticizer since its been about 11 months since I put it together. Holy crap I didn't realize it had been that long. I see a little bit of clear residue build up along the top of the waterline in my res but I'll post my results since there doesn't seem to be too much on the dangerden dreamflex tubing.


I will keep my eyes on you result


----------



## goodtobeking

As will I. I have the same dye and need new tubing. So hopefully it works out.

Is Durelene the only safe tubing to use anymore??


----------



## X-Nine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I was waiting for this for long long time and finally someone got the guts to post the real DEAL of bad side of this crap SYS SCRUB cleaner. I know it will leave a lot of crap inside the blocks. This gel stuck in your blocks eventually it will going to transform in some kinda corrosion and from that it will eat the rest of you blocks and rad with NO DOUBT.
> have you seen it? *feniks* may turn out like this in the future. who knows
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I will never wait to see this happen, this is on of my big concern.
> 
> 
> 
> That has nothing to do with plasticizer or sys scrub,that is what happens when you mix Alu and copper
> 
> Another Apogee,another Fail....
Click to expand...

Wooooooah. Which Apogee model is that? My first block was an Apogee XT.....


----------



## goodtobeking

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XNine*
> 
> Wooooooah. Which Apogee model is that? My first block was an Apogee XT.....


I have an XT and still use it on a second build. No problems so I bet it was an earlier model


----------



## X-Nine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *goodtobeking*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *XNine*
> 
> Wooooooah. Which Apogee model is that? My first block was an Apogee XT.....
> 
> 
> 
> I have an XT and still use it on a second build. No problems so I bet it was an earlier model
Click to expand...

Ah! Good good! Thank you


----------



## NomNomNom

Can plasticizer be completely clear? Or is it always an opaque colour?


----------



## PapaSmurf6768

Thought I'd update, I've been using my Duralene tubing for a few months now and it's great stuff. A VERY slight haze developed after a week or so of using it but it hasn't gotten any worse since. I'm using distilled with Mayhems blue dye and it's working great, huge upgrade over the LRT. Love how it's so cheap too.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NomNomNom*
> 
> Can plasticizer be completely clear? Or is it always an opaque colour?


On Durelene the plasticizer will be a very slight haze ( clear, only visible went tubing is dry ) but it will never going to grow like on LRT tubing. you can see it in of my post just go back a few pages. LTR the plasticizer will be opaque and it can accumulate inside it can gunk and slow your loop.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PapaSmurf6768*
> 
> Thought I'd update, I've been using my Duralene tubing for a few months now and it's great stuff. A VERY slight haze developed after a week or so of using it but it hasn't gotten any worse since. I'm using distilled with Mayhems blue dye and it's working great, huge upgrade over the LRT. Love how it's so cheap too.


Hey are you still single Papa? no mama Smurf for you ? LOL j/k bro.
Good to know Papa, I'm very happy to know many of you happy with my recommendation of Durelene tubing it does do the job and very cheap.


----------



## NomNomNom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> On Durelene the plasticizer will be a very slight haze ( clear, only visible went tubing is dry ) but it will never going to grow like on LRT tubing. you can see it in of my post just go back a few pages. LTR the plasticizer will be opaque and it can accumulate inside it can gunk and slow your loop.
> Hey are you still single Papa? no mama Smurf for you ? LOL j/k bro.
> Good to know Papa, I'm very happy to know many of you happy with my recommendation of Durelene tubing it does do the job and very cheap.


Yeah i have duralene right now and its clouded, just wondering if the plasticizer will ever reach my cpu block.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NomNomNom*
> 
> Yeah i have duralene right now and its clouded, just wondering if the plasticizer will ever reach my cpu block.


Only haze in the tubing, there nothing to worry about. It wont spread in blocks. do you mind to post some pics.


----------



## NomNomNom

This is after 2+ years
Also has been under pretty decent heat stress since an i7 860 at 4ghz puts out very large amounts of heat, the radiator and tubes actually get pretty warm after awhile.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NomNomNom*
> 
> 
> This is after 2+ years
> Also has been under pretty decent heat stress since an i7 860 at 4ghz puts out very large amounts of heat, the radiator and tubes actually get pretty warm after awhile.


I think you had confused yourself in certain point. Durelene Tubing has no names, logo of any kind letters on it. It is clear all around.


----------



## NomNomNom

??? this is what i bought http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/dupvctu1idx3.html
It might have changed a bit, i did get it two years ago


----------



## audioxbliss

Took my loop apart before the holiday, and found quite a bit of build up on the inside of my tubing. Luckily, nothing spread onto fittings or blocks except for a couple localized spots. I've now contacted Primochill about it. I really hope the new stuff works better...


----------



## goodtobeking

Anyone have any experience with this Tygon Silver tubing?? It is really what I want, color wise, but dont want to risk it since it is over 5 times the price of the durelene. I have primochill tubing and dont want anymore tubing problems

EDIT: at this site it says the tubing has "Plasticizer-free inner bore" should I take this with a grain of salt??


----------



## X-Nine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *goodtobeking*
> 
> Anyone have any experience with this Tygon Silver tubing?? It is really what I want, color wise, but dont want to risk it since it is over 5 times the price of the durelene. I have primochill tubing and dont want anymore tubing problems
> 
> EDIT: at this site it says the tubing has "Plasticizer-free inner bore" should I take this with a grain of salt??


Tygon is used in a lot of Food-service devices like beverage dispensers and what not. I wouldn't be concerned, personally. I've used Tygon for 2 years (the black), and it's served me extremely well.


----------



## goodtobeking

Thanks Xnine, I just heard the Tygon silver is hard to work with. I guess nothing a couple fittings couldnt fix if it isnt very flexible, I did just buy a MCP35x2 pump. Now I have all the head I need lol


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *goodtobeking*
> 
> Anyone have any experience with this Tygon Silver tubing?? It is really what I want, color wise, but dont want to risk it since it is over 5 times the price of the durelene. I have primochill tubing and dont want anymore tubing problems
> EDIT: at this site it says the tubing has "Plasticizer-free inner bore" should I take this with a grain of salt??


I was running this tubing for two years until two months ago, I disassembled it and found nothing of any concern. The inner bore was spotless, I should have taken pictures.


----------



## vaporizer

Hey all. I just read through this entire thread( skimmed of some of the Primochill bashing ones). My eyeballs hurt. I just installed some Tygon E1000 a couple of weeks ago after seeing some white film in my black Tygon 3603. All is 1/2 x 3/4. I haven't seen much chatter about this tubing so I thought I would give it a try. I had to sell my first born to buy it though. I will post some pics later. The tube has a slight discoloration to start, but it still looks good after the two weeks. I used barbs and clamps to feel comfortable with the hold. The tubing is soft and "waxie". I am using distilled water with Mayham's dye and a kill coil. Blocks are EK copper, rads are swiftech QP, pump is a swiftech MCP655, res is XSPC acrylic. Fittings are all BP shiny silver and a couple of EK barbs that came with some past blocks.


----------



## Socks keep you warm

As you can see the new PrimoChill advanced tubing is very clean, you can see through, I couldn't see through pro.


----------



## joejoe69

I just installed Primochill Pro LRT tubing not knowing about this plasticizer problem and I just noticed it recently.

This is when I first filled and bled the system.









This is one week later.









I previously had XSPC clear tubing and it stayed clear the whole time I had it.


----------



## Eagle1337

You know what's weird? I've been using primochill LRT for about 6 months and I haven't seen any plasticizing. I think it's starting to though as there's a definite difference between the new slice I put in when I added a GPU to the loop and the old stuff.


----------



## Eusbwoa18

This is a picture of my last build using Tygon 2375 Ultra Chemical Resistant Plasticizer Free Tubing. As you can see it's not the clearest tubing out there, but my last rig used the Primo LRT and clouded up over the first few weeks. It's stiff but workable if you heat it and bend it. It is very kink resistant. I'm hoping this will last until I rebuild my system without any clouding or buildup issues inside the tubes.

I'm looking forward to the long term results from people that have tried the LRT advanced.


----------



## MightyAA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kj1060*
> 
> So I was curious if my block manufacturers had a suggested way of cleaning their blocks and I received a response from Swiftech today. It pointed me to this page on their website.
> While I am very inclined to believe them, however I was just curious if anyone else had heard or tried this before? I have yet to contact XSPC.


Anyone try this pinesol rinse yet? I'll be upgrading/rebuilding my rig in a couple weeks and the plasticizer has spread into the radiator and presumably the pump. I'll be using new blocks and tubing, but was going to reuse those older, now contaminated parts....


----------



## Eusbwoa18

I'd be worried about the residue that PineSol would leave. I rinsed all of my gear with vinegar (let the vinegar sit for several hours), then flushed with hot tap water then flushed with distilled.

Also, I did this with the loop disassembled.


----------



## kj1060

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MightyAA*
> 
> Anyone try this pinesol rinse yet? I'll be upgrading/rebuilding my rig in a couple weeks and the plasticizer has spread into the radiator and presumably the pump. I'll be using new blocks and tubing, but was going to reuse those older, now contaminated parts....


I have not tested it yet, since I am waiting on some parts as well. I have also not heard back from XSPC and got no response in the Water Cooling Club when I posted there.


----------



## vaporizer

here are some pics of the tygon E-1000. i put a couple of other tubes around it. Again, it has a little tint to it.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vaporizer*
> 
> Hey all. I just read through this entire thread( skimmed of some of the Primochill bashing ones). My eyeballs hurt. I just installed some Tygon E1000 a couple of weeks ago after seeing some white film in my black Tygon 3603. All is 1/2 x 3/4. I haven't seen much chatter about this tubing so I thought I would give it a try. I had to sell my first born to buy it though. I will post some pics later. The tube has a slight discoloration to start, but it still looks good after the two weeks. I used barbs and clamps to feel comfortable with the hold. The tubing is soft and "waxie". I am using distilled water with Mayham's dye and a kill coil. Blocks are EK copper, rads are swiftech QP, pump is a swiftech MCP655, res is XSPC acrylic. Fittings are all BP shiny silver and a couple of EK barbs that came with some past blocks.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vaporizer*
> 
> here are some pics of the tygon E-1000. i put a couple of other tubes around it. Again, it has a little tint to it.


Personally speaking, thanks for providing this info-imo, any *CONSTRUCTIVE* feedback is helpful, the more info we get based on *FACTS*, the more choices we have as consumers to make purchasing choices-good job bud









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MightyAA*
> 
> Anyone try this pinesol rinse yet? I'll be upgrading/rebuilding my rig in a couple weeks and the plasticizer has spread into the radiator and presumably the pump. I'll be using new blocks and tubing, but was going to reuse those older, now contaminated parts....


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pgdeaner*
> 
> I'd be worried about the residue that PineSol would leave. I rinsed all of my gear with vinegar (let the vinegar sit for several hours), then flushed with hot tap water then flushed with distilled.
> Also, I did this with the loop disassembled.


THe old adage, less is better is what i follow, when we start looking for 'off the road solutions', things get cloudy (excuse the overused pun







)

If it works great, but usually, if those methods go wrong, you usually end up in a position worse off than where you started-my opinion and nothing else, so i agree with pgdeaner on this issue.


----------



## joejoe69

Here's my Primochill Pro LRT before and after comparison:



Again, this is what it looked like when it was first filled:



This is what it looks like when plasticized, one week later:



What it looks like now after 3 flushes with vinegar and distilled water, while back to the same XSPC tubing from my previous loop. Not as clear as Pro LRT but I never had plasticizing issues whatsoever with XSPC tubing:


----------



## ea3ot

You clean the full circuit ( including tubes) with vinegar? .or just the rads and the block?? The vinegar have clean the tubes?


----------



## X-Nine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ea3ot*
> 
> You clean the full circuit ( including tubes) with vinegar? .or just the rads and the block?? The vinegar have clean the tubes?


You could use it to clean the tubes as well, though, I wouldn't run it through a pump (no science to back it up, I just personally wouldn't). To flush, I typically use vegetable vinegar as it's not as intrusive. It's a good cleaning agent.

As for tubing, I still use Tygon. I think R3400 and I've never had an issue with clouding of the water in the loop at all. I've taken tubing off for upgrades or doing other builds and it's nice and clean on the inside. Like I've said before, Tygon is a food-industry grade tubing, and God knows how fast they'd be sued if people's Pepsi came out with plasticizer in it.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XNine*
> 
> You could use it to clean the tubes as well, though, I wouldn't run it through a pump (no science to back it up, I just personally wouldn't). To flush, I typically use vegetable vinegar as it's not as intrusive. It's a good cleaning agent.
> As for tubing, I still use Tygon. I think R3400 and I've never had an issue with clouding of the water in the loop at all. I've taken tubing off for upgrades or doing other builds and it's nice and clean on the inside. Like I've said before, Tygon is a food-industry grade tubing, and God knows how fast they'd be sued if people's Pepsi came out with plasticizer in it.


Only difference is that Pepsi isnt served at 30c


----------



## X-Nine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *XNine*
> 
> You could use it to clean the tubes as well, though, I wouldn't run it through a pump (no science to back it up, I just personally wouldn't). To flush, I typically use vegetable vinegar as it's not as intrusive. It's a good cleaning agent.
> As for tubing, I still use Tygon. I think R3400 and I've never had an issue with clouding of the water in the loop at all. I've taken tubing off for upgrades or doing other builds and it's nice and clean on the inside. Like I've said before, Tygon is a food-industry grade tubing, and God knows how fast they'd be sued if people's Pepsi came out with plasticizer in it.
> 
> 
> 
> Only difference is that Pepsi isnt served at 30c
Click to expand...

LOL, well, that's true. I wonder... and sorry, I haven't read through this entire humongous thread, but has anyone done temperature tests with the tubing to see if that makes any difference?


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XNine*
> 
> LOL, well, that's true. I wonder... and sorry, I haven't read through this entire humongous thread, but has anyone done temperature tests with the tubing to see if that makes any difference?


*Sorry for the double post*

Firstly i was kidding









Secondly, all i can really say to save you going through the whole thread, is that loop temps seem to be one of the variables that have an effect on tubing plasticizer deposits-the only concrete facts we have so far, is that certain tubing is more prone to suffering plasticizer deposits-i don't want to get into names, you can find out that just by reading a few pages back.

That having been said, Tubing that has suffered less plasticizer problems:

Durelene-currently seems to be the best performer, going on feedback provided.

Feser tubing

Tygon

Masteecleer

Apart from Durelene, the order of listing does *NOT* reflect one being better than the other.

Unfortunately, there are so many variables when it comes to a cooling loop, that concrete findings have not been made-that would take a company which is willing to invest alot of time and money into investigating the problem.

Whether the capital outlay to reach an *honest unbiased* opinion is worth investing in at the moment is debatable -imo, i think that until companies can see the possibilities of making huge profits on tubing, such research will not be carried out *properly* and *independently*.

On a closing note, Primochill have (or are) introducing any day now to the WC market their new tubing called LRT Advanced, hopefully their tubing will be one of those that does not present problems, but that will take at *least* 6 months after it is released for its performance to be ascertained-and that is because it will need to be used by a considerable amount of people willing to provide feedback, before a *fair* & *unbiased* review can be made.

Right now the words of the sponsored users are by no means enough to go on or to be trusted (again read a bit back and you will understand)









But if you want to ship me a free NZXT switch 810, ill can become your sex slave lol!

(again a joke







)


----------



## X-Nine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> snippy


Ah, well, thank you for the rundown. I was just wondering if temps had any effect, though I can see where you're coming from on obtaining concrete proof. Too many reservoirs, radiators, pumps, and blocks to sift through, not to mention additives like dyes or kill coils.

I'm not here to point fingers at any company either, I'm a consumer, enthusiast, and watercooler myself. I just want to be on the same page, and going through 220+ pages is not my idea of a fun time, lol.

Thank you for the information. And the S810 has been on sale a lot lately. Pretty cheap too. I think the egg had it for like 115 or something like that a week ago. Pretty cheap for that case.

Anyway, thank you for the info. +Rep.


----------



## Systemlord

There's not many reports on Primochill's new Advanced LRT tubing, anyone have any actual experience with this tubing?


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> There's not many reports on Primochill's new Advanced LRT tubing, anyone have any actual experience with this tubing?


Way too early mate-im not even sure that its fully out on the market as yet-certain samples that you have seen on this thread, have been sent directly to the people from Primochill itself

As i mentioned in my earlier post- its going to take some time before we can actually get a good idea as to its capabilities, but since it's new, it should be given a completely clean slate, and allowed to shine if possible-hey the goal here is to get clear attractive tubing that works


----------



## nleksan

I am going to grab some of the Advanced 1/2x3/4 in White the moment it's available, so I'll be sure to keep a detailed log (like, daily photographs/temps/etc). Gotta contribute to the greater good


----------



## Neo Zuko

Well it's Duralene for me unless that new Primochill Advanced stuff does well.


----------



## wermad

My res is developing some film inside and the caking is getting a bit thick on the tube. Time to toss the Primochill. Placed an order for 20' of Duralene from swc.com. Hope it holds and it shows off my "blue-green" liquid (Mayhems Deep Blue + Emerald Green).


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> I am going to grab some of the Advanced 1/2x3/4 in White the moment it's available, so I'll be sure to keep a detailed log (like, daily photographs/temps/etc). Gotta contribute to the greater good


It's been available for weeks people, I'll have it by Tueday. PrimoChill PrimoFlex™ Advanced LRT™ Tubing


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Way too early mate-im not even sure that its fully out on the market as yet-certain samples that you have seen on this thread, have been sent directly to the people from Primochill itself
> As i mentioned in my earlier post- its going to take some time before we can actually get a good idea as to its capabilities, but since it's new, it should be given a completely clean slate, and allowed to shine if possible-hey the goal here is to get clear attractive tubing that works


I've had my Advanced tubing now for about a week and it looks great, it's a bit more Stiff thought but expected.
At higher temperatures i have noticed that Pro LRT is very very soft and easy to push in the tubing, with advanced it changes from hard to a little softer. This tubing is also much more clear.


----------



## 02ssei

I've had advanced LRT in my system for a little over 3 weeks. I ran distilled with a kill coil for one week, and then switched to Mayhem's ice white pastel the last 2 weeks. I drained my loop yesterday to add a 240 rad and GPU block and the tubing isn't showing any signs of clouding or leeching like the pro LRT did in the first week. I'll take some pictures before refilling and can even take a comparison shot with unused advanced LRT, but the 3 week old stuff is doing great so far.


----------



## Capt Proton

Yeah! Primochill fixed the problem they said doesn't exist! How hypocritical! What liars!


----------



## NostraD

Just FYI:

Lower 2 pieces are Durelene ~2months old under distilled, Mayhems Deep Blue and a kil coil.
Upper piece is the same tubing - new.
Durelene is not immune it seems.


----------



## wot

So guys what is the best combo tube/dye (blue or purple) ?


----------



## DerComissar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NostraD*
> 
> Just FYI:
> 
> Lower 2 pieces are Durelene ~2months old under distilled, Mayhems Deep Blue and a kil coil.
> Upper piece is the same tubing - new.
> Durelene is not immune it seems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Some clouding of the tubing is quite normal, regardless of the brand.
At least the Durelene doesn't have the cream cheese issue


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> I am going to grab some of the Advanced 1/2x3/4 in White the moment it's available, so I'll be sure to keep a detailed log (like, daily photographs/temps/etc). Gotta contribute to the greater good


Coloured tubing is out Quote: 'in Dec' I have a personal e mail from Primochill proving what ive said.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> It's been available for weeks people, I'll have it by Tueday. PrimoChill PrimoFlex™ Advanced LRT™ Tubing


Maybe in the States, but not worldwide(there is life on other planets bud







)-thanks for the link.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> I've had my Advanced tubing now for about a week and it looks great, it's a bit more Stiff thought but expected.
> At higher temperatures i have noticed that Pro LRT is very very soft and easy to push in the tubing, with advanced it changes from hard to a little softer. This tubing is also much more clear.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> I've had advanced LRT in my system for a little over 3 weeks. I ran distilled with a kill coil for one week, and then switched to Mayhem's ice white pastel the last 2 weeks. I drained my loop yesterday to add a 240 rad and GPU block and the tubing isn't showing any signs of clouding or leeching like the pro LRT did in the first week. I'll take some pictures before refilling and can even take a comparison shot with unused advanced LRT, but the 3 week old stuff is doing great so far.


Both of you guys were sent replacement tubing, i did not say that people dont have it, rather i said that it *MAY* not be for sale as yet to the general public









Good to hear that its functioning properly.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> Yeah! Primochill fixed the problem they said doesn't exist! How hypocritical! What liars!


Easy tiger, you know that i don't like unfounded statements either-i hate them, but lets see what comes of their new tubing-they may surprise us all.
As i said in my previous post-a few people saying they have it and it works or doesn't work is of no value, there has to be a substantial amount of feedback before one can pass either positive or negative feedback, thats not to say that people should not post their experiences with the new tubing-its all helpful, but in its early stages, just dont take anything read as being gospel as yet -this applies to anything new on the market.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NostraD*
> 
> Just FYI:
> Lower 2 pieces are Durelene ~2months old under distilled, Mayhems Deep Blue and a kil coil.
> Upper piece is the same tubing - new.
> Durelene is not immune it seems.


That looks like haze, not plasticizer-Durlene is just the best of a bad bunch it seems.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wot*
> 
> So guys what is the best combo tube/dye (blue or purple) ?


???
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DerComissar*
> 
> [/SPOILER]
> Some clouding of the tubing is quite normal, regardless of the brand.
> At least the Durelene doesn't have the cream cheese issue


*THIS^^*


----------



## joejoe69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ea3ot*
> 
> You clean the full circuit ( including tubes) with vinegar? .or just the rads and the block?? The vinegar have clean the tubes?


I just flushed my rads and water blocks only, with 50/50 mix of distilled water and distilled vinegar, while using new XSPC tubing. I didn't want to risk damaging my MCP655 pump. Of course I replaced the flushing tubing with new tubing. As far as how I did it, I used my old XSPC bay res/pump combo to push everything out.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> I've had my Advanced tubing now for about a week and it looks great, it's a bit more Stiff thought but expected.
> At higher temperatures i have noticed that Pro LRT is very very soft and easy to push in the tubing, with advanced it changes from hard to a little softer. This tubing is also much more clear.


The extra stiffness of the new Advanced LRT tubing is most likely why it's staying clear longer after several weeks, again my intuition is telling me that this tubing will be better than all other tubing when it comes to clarity and only time will tell what I already believe!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> I've had advanced LRT in my system for a little over 3 weeks. I ran distilled with a kill coil for one week, and then switched to Mayhem's ice white pastel the last 2 weeks. I drained my loop yesterday to add a 240 rad and GPU block and the tubing isn't showing any signs of clouding or leeching like the pro LRT did in the first week. I'll take some pictures before refilling and can even take a comparison shot with unused advanced LRT, but the 3 week old stuff is doing great so far.


This is actually what I have been expecting and have stated it more than once in this thread, this new Advanced LRT tubing will make or break the company!


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Easy tiger, you know that i don't like unfounded statements either-i hate them, but lets see what comes of their new tubing-they may surprise us all.


Missing the point? Doesn't matter if new tubing is great. It is what has occurred already that forms my opinion, and I shall never, never stop expressing that opinion to all that will listen and read. This is what I do if companies piss me off. I slam them, constantly and vehemently.

Bottom line. They lied. Credibility gone. Never buy from them again.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> Missing the point? Doesn't matter if new tubing is great. It is what has occurred already that forms my opinion, and I shall never, never stop expressing that opinion to all that will listen and read. This is what I do if companies piss me off. I slam them, constantly and vehemently.
> Bottom line. They lied. Credibility gone. Never buy from them again.


No im not missing the point.

Secondly no point preaching to the converted -im hardly the person to keep quiet in such issues, or maybe you have not read my posts









If thats how you feel, go ahead and state your opinion, free forum, and i agree totally with your right to express your opinion, no matter who likes it or not.

Your opinion is valid, ive been through the same.

My reply to your quote was more along the lines of kidding, but if you feel that strongly, more power to you brother









But again, and i *STRESS*, i didn't miss any point, maybe you missed my humour (yes i wont give up my day job to go into comedy-i suck at it)


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> Missing the point? Doesn't matter if new tubing is great. It is what has occurred already that forms my opinion, and I shall never, never stop expressing that opinion to all that will listen and read. This is what I do if companies piss me off. I slam them, constantly and vehemently.
> Bottom line. They lied. Credibility gone. Never buy from them again.


Actually it does matter if new tubing is great especially if it eliminates clouding and cream cheese, are we not trying to find a tubing that doesn't have the earlier mentioned problems? I value your opinion and I'm sure there's a lot more that hate, but is it really worth the aggravation?


----------



## Capt Proton

I refuse to continue to use any supplier that shows such disdain for its customers. The reason that companies can treat us as they do and continue to thrive is because we keep buying from them, no matter what. If we treated on line computer companies like we do auto manufacturers, then they would not keep handing us the crap they do. If you buy a car that turns out to be junk, your next car is probably coming from another manufacturer. Why do we not apply the same yard stick to these jokers?

I do.


----------



## skyn3t

Everyone here are looking for a "Solution" for the Equation we do have ( Loop ). but in order to get t he right result it does takes time and time is money and money won't grow in your backyard. So Patient is the key for the "Solution" that we are looking for. ( damn I must finish Albert Einstein book ). Did you guys know what i mean ? ok than, let me clear up some of my post about my result because.

What I have been telling everyone here is to Get the Durelene because it is the only safe tubing I have found for now and besides that not to BUY Primo chill LTR. We all know anyone can make mistake and we do learn from that. "I'm not saying we have to make it wrong to get the right result, if you start thinking like that you can stop reading my post and walk out the same door you walked in." many here has contributed a lot with this thread and many has not. many has give us a lot positive points but many has given us a lot negative points included ME MY SELF & I. if anyone go back on this thread you will find mistakes that I have made ( I don't know everything like everyone else) keep this in mind. I did take a lot of my free time to make all this test happen to show what I found for all of us. did I did mistakes? "sure I did " did I found a better solution for all of us "damn right I did" sidewinders computers have never sold so many Durelene Tubing like it did in the couple months back. This Thread has spread along the other communities so deep that it did create a lot more debates and bash/slam than we do think. but one thing I do want you guys to do is respect each other and keep this thread at TOPIC. If you want to say something say it but don't use Strong's words like I have seem it here. keep calm and we going to get there. bottom line

Primochill LTR = It does gunk/clog and have Plasticizer and *5uck's all around*
Primochill Adv LTR = results unknown. ( I need extra cash to buy this new ADV LRT to put it under heave load temps and test this *5uck3r*
Durelene + It doesn't gunk/clog and have haze not Plasticizer. * do you have any better tubing?* post it here with real results.

hey kkorky thanks for all your smart reply and keep it clear like you always did. for the hates I ask to control your self and do some inner peace.








and I do stress too.


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> for the hates I ask to control your self and do some inner peace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and I do stress too.


Now that's funny.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> Now that's funny.


damn right it is funny , and I'm happy that i made you smile a bit


----------



## Qu1ckset

Hey guys im using Masterkleer Purple UV tubing, only company that makes this color, but these tubes have the plasticizer issue, i can see the white coating in my tubes (rigs taken apart at the moment) and when i removed my rez i had to wipe the plastic clean.
Will this hurt my rig? will it affect temps? will it damage my radiators, blocks or pumps?
i want to keep using this tubing because the plasticizer isnt noticeable when everything is put together, and masterkleer is the only company with th color i want, but if this issue is damaging i dont want to continue using it....


----------



## paradoxum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Hey guys im using Masterkleer Purple UV tubing, only company that makes this color, but these tubes have the plasticizer issue, i can see the white coating in my tubes (rigs taken apart at the moment) and when i removed my rez i had to wipe the plastic clean.
> Will this hurt my rig? will it affect temps? will it damage my radiators, blocks or pumps?
> i want to keep using this tubing because the plasticizer isnt noticeable when everything is put together, and masterkleer is the only company with th color i want, but if this issue is damaging i dont want to continue using it....


I had green UV masterkleer and the white crap clogged up my CPU block, caused the waterflow to drop significantly enough so that the tubing around the CPU block got so hot that it came loose from the fittings, and water went allover my case.

I switched to Primochill Pro LRT tubing and have been running it almost a year without any plasticizer problems, so anyone looking for tubing without plasticizer I can confirm, at least, that the UV green Pro LRT tubing doesn't have it.


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paradoxum*
> 
> I had green UV masterkleer and the white crap clogged up my CPU block, caused the waterflow to drop significantly enough so that the tubing around the CPU block got so hot that it came loose from the fittings, and water went allover my case.
> I switched to Primochill Pro LRT tubing and have been running it almost a year without any plasticizer problems, so anyone looking for tubing without plasticizer I can confirm, at least, that the UV green Pro LRT tubing doesn't have it.


All PRO LRT has a chance on Plasticizing, you're just lucky tbh. Your water temps are obviously not exceeding the danger temps for this tubing.


----------



## Qu1ckset

so since i already took apart my build i can see a light white coating in alot of the tubes, if i clean it off with something , will it continue to coat itself with the plasticizer ? , and i will definitely check my block before i install, see how bad it is...

this is truly annoying!


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> so since i already took apart my build i can see a light white coating in alot of the tubes, if i clean it off with something , will it continue to coat itself with the plasticizer ? , and i will definitely check my block before i install, see how bad it is...
> this is truly annoying!


Yeah it'll get worse, what i heard you can do is place the tubing for 1-2 hours in 60c water normal hot tap water, and after and hour roll it the tubing in the water, and then leave it for another hour and repeat. Could get rid of it. Try to add a bit of vinegar.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> Yeah it'll get worse, what i heard you can do is place the tubing for 1-2 hours in 60c water normal hot tap water, and after and hour roll it the tubing in the water, and then leave it for another hour and repeat. Could get rid of it. Try to add a bit of vinegar.


is there another company who doesn't use this plasticizer?? why do they use it anyways, if it causes so much problems...


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> is there another company who doesn't use this plasticizer?? why do they use it anyways, if it causes so much problems...


The new advanced tubing does not do this, i've had it in for a week and it looks amazing. Much more clear when new also! Its the same price, what i did was send pics to primochill with invoice and they replaced all 4 meters i had bought.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> The new advanced tubing does not do this, i've had it in for a week and it looks amazing. Much more clear when new also! Its the same price, what i did was send pics to primochill with invoice and they replaced all 4 meters i had bought.


Your talking about the primochill LRT tubing? That's the new advance tubing without plasticizer?


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> I refuse to continue to use any supplier that shows such disdain for its customers. The reason that companies can treat us as they do and continue to thrive is because we keep buying from them, no matter what. If we treated on line computer companies like we do auto manufacturers, then they would not keep handing us the crap they do. If you buy a car that turns out to be junk, your next car is probably coming from another manufacturer. Why do we not apply the same yard stick to these jokers?
> I do.


Then I guess you will not be buying any brand of tubing because they are all bad to some extent, Primochill just might be the worst when it comes to clouding and cream cheese, but their not the only offenders here!


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Then I guess you will not be buying any brand of tubing because they are all bad to some extent, Primochill just might be the worst when it comes to clouding and cream cheese, but their not the only offenders here!


Pay attention. My issue all along has not been so much with the product, it is the lack of integrity and customer service. All companies have bad runs, but, the way you deal with the issue is what really counts.


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Your talking about the primochill LRT tubing? That's the new advance tubing without plasticizer?


The ADVANCED LRT tubing.


----------



## 02ssei

I'm not saying the advanced LRT tubing is the best tubing of all time. I'm just saying that it is still clear after 3 weeks in my particular setup.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> Pay attention. My issue all along has not been so much with the product, *it is the lack of integrity and customer service*. All companies have bad runs, but, the way you deal with the issue is what really counts.


Oh I am paying attention, you will slam them, constantly and vehemently. Bottom line. They lied. Credibility gone. Never buy from them again.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> Missing the point? Doesn't matter if new tubing is great. It is what has occurred already that forms my opinion, and I shall never, never stop expressing that opinion to all that will listen and read. This is what I do if companies piss me off. I slam them, constantly and vehemently.
> Bottom line. They lied. Credibility gone. *Never buy from them again*.


I'm paying attention to what you are saying. It seems to me that you won't be buying any brand of tubing whatsoever when based off your opinion, so does this mean your giving up water cooling?


----------



## SilkyJohnson

Primo chill has sent me some system scrubber I'll be using in a few days. I'll gladly report back with temp and appearance differences. Anyone else used it thus far and got good results?


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SilkyJohnson*
> 
> Primo chill has sent me some system scrubber I'll be using in a few days. I'll gladly report back with temp and appearance differences. Anyone else used it thus far and got good results?


If were you I will put the loop down and use 1/4 wood stick or hard plastick stick with a with a peae of clot with soap. It will going to leave some residues inside the blocks. If you go back some pages you will find what I'm telling you.


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Oh I am paying attention, you will slam them, constantly and vehemently. Bottom line. They lied. Credibility gone. Never buy from them again.
> I'm paying attention to what you are saying. It seems to me that you won't be buying any brand of tubing whatsoever when based off your opinion, so does this mean your giving up water cooling?


OK. Now we both got it.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Everyone here are looking for a "Solution" for the Equation we do have ( Loop ). but in order to get t he right result it does takes time and time is money and money won't grow in your backyard. So Patient is the key for the "Solution" that we are looking for. ( damn I must finish Albert Einstein book ). Did you guys know what i mean ? ok than, let me clear up some of my post about my result because.
> What I have been telling everyone here is to Get the Durelene because it is the only safe tubing I have found for now and besides that not to BUY Primo chill LTR. We all know anyone can make mistake and we do learn from that. "I'm not saying we have to make it wrong to get the right result, if you start thinking like that you can stop reading my post and walk out the same door you walked in." many here has contributed a lot with this thread and many has not. many has give us a lot positive points but many has given us a lot negative points included ME MY SELF & I. if anyone go back on this thread you will find mistakes that I have made ( I don't know everything like everyone else) keep this in mind. I did take a lot of my free time to make all this test happen to show what I found for all of us. did I did mistakes? "sure I did " did I found a better solution for all of us "damn right I did" sidewinders computers have never sold so many Durelene Tubing like it did in the couple months back. This Thread has spread along the other communities so deep that it did create a lot more debates and bash/slam than we do think. but one thing I do want you guys to do is respect each other and keep this thread at TOPIC. If you want to say something say it but don't use Strong's words like I have seem it here. keep calm and we going to get there. bottom line
> Primochill LTR = It does gunk/clog and have Plasticizer and *5uck's all around*
> Primochill Adv LTR = results unknown. ( I need extra cash to buy this new ADV LRT to put it under heave load temps and test this *5uck3r*
> Durelene + It doesn't gunk/clog and have haze not Plasticizer. * do you have any better tubing?* post it here with real results.
> hey kkorky thanks for all your smart reply and keep it clear like you always did. for the hates I ask to control your self and do some inner peace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had green UV masterkleer and the white crap clogged up my CPU block, caused the waterflow to drop significantly enough so that the tubing around the CPU block got so hot that it came loose from the fittings, and water went allover my case.
> I switched to Primochill Pro LRT tubing and have been running it almost a year without any plasticizer problems, so anyone looking for tubing without plasticizer I can confirm, at least, that the UV green Pro LRT tubing doesn't have it.


*-_-*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> All PRO LRT has a chance on Plasticizing, you're just lucky tbh. Your water temps are obviously not exceeding the danger temps for this tubing.


*THIS^^*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> is there another company who doesn't use this plasticizer?? why do they use it anyways, if it causes so much problems...


Plasticizer or DEHP (Phthalate) is what gives certain tubing its extra elasticity -i'll tell you a little secret: we are ALL exposed to plasticizer just a tiny bit everyday, for more info, use google









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Oh I am paying attention, you will slam them, constantly and vehemently. Bottom line. They lied. Credibility gone. Never buy from them again.
> I'm paying attention to what you are saying. It seems to me that you won't be buying any brand of tubing whatsoever when based off your opinion, so does this mean your giving up water cooling?


Hey were on the same side here, ie the search for good quality tubing without plasticizer problems-some of us are more placid/relaxed than others, some of us (myself included- more aggressive at times)-live and let live, we have no right to critisise a persons character/stance (as long as they are not directly offensive to us), incorrect/misleading information, yes.

So Proton has a right to express what he wants to about whatever tubing company without us having a go or questioning his position, each to their own imho.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SilkyJohnson*
> 
> Primo chill has sent me some system scrubber I'll be using in a few days. I'll gladly report back with temp and appearance differences. Anyone else used it thus far and got good results?


*DONT USE THAT CRAP!!! MAYONNAISE IS BETTER* (that is a joke-the mayonnaise part)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> If were you I will put the loop down and use 1/4 wood stick or hard plastick stick with a with a peae of clot with soap. It will going to leave some residues inside the blocks. If you go back some pages you will find what I'm telling you.


The way i see it is this-if tubing has haze, no probs, just carry on.

If tubing has plasticizer, just dump it and use new tubing-ofc i do not presume to know anyone's financial capability to buy new tubing, but even if the tubing has plasticizer, changing it every 3 months roughly will see you good.
I never waste my time cleaning tubes.


----------



## SilkyJohnson

well ive got 2 opinions there, anyone else? This is only a temporary fix until I change the tubing out with some tygon and some mayhems dye. But it will be a ton of work pulling the entire loop apart and hand cleaning all the blocks if this stuff will do it for me. Its not like im having temp issues or anything just cloudy tubes and pump tops.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SilkyJohnson*
> 
> well ive got 2 opinions there, anyone else? This is only a temporary fix until I change the tubing out with some tygon and some mayhems dye. But it will be a ton of work pulling the entire loop apart and hand cleaning all the blocks if this stuff will do it for me. Its not like im having temp issues or anything just cloudy tubes and pump tops.


SilkyJohnson : I can imagine how it will be frustrate for you. but keep in mind even after the sys scrub I do recommend you to take the loop a part to give a good cleaning. the sys scrub will going to leave some gel residue as a leftover. *GoodInk* has posted it in some thread here but I cannot find it. If I can get him in the line I will link you with his result. you will be surprised.

Edited: sorry, he did not use the sys scrub. but the plasticizer has gone bad in his blocks. *Link* anyways it will leave something like this inside. I'm sure i saw something like this in some thread but i cannot find it.


----------



## SilkyJohnson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> SilkyJohnson : I can imagine how it will be frustrate for you. but keep in mind even after the sys scrub I do recommend you to take the loop a part to give a good cleaning. the sys scrub will going to leave some gel residue as a leftover. *GoodInk* has posted it in some thread here but I cannot find it. If I can get him in the line I will link you with his result. you will be surprised.


Well in that case I wont bother even fooling with it until I get my new tubing and dye here and plan a day to tear it all apart and clean it. The general cleaning agent it hot tap and vinegar on everything but the pump correct? Followed by a flush with distilled? Ill likely get the tubing and all in the next few weeks.


----------



## paradoxum

where in the UK can I get the new primochill tubing?


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SilkyJohnson*
> 
> Well in that case I wont bother even fooling with it until I get my new tubing and dye here and plan a day to tear it all apart and clean it. The general cleaning agent it hot tap and vinegar on everything but the pump correct? Followed by a flush with distilled? Ill likely get the tubing and all in the next few weeks.


good call , you will save yourself time and work.

GoodInk Link


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paradoxum*
> 
> where in the UK can I get the new primochill tubing?


Dont think you can atm-as far as i know only stateside:Frozen & PPPc


----------



## paradoxum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Dont think you can atm-as far as i know only stateside:Frozen & PPPc


and according to their website it doesn't come in green anyway which is what I want.... damnit


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paradoxum*
> 
> where in the UK can I get the new primochill tubing?


You may need to contact your closest reseller and ask them.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Dont think you can atm-as far as i know only stateside:Frozen & PPPc


It's hit Australian stores also








In Australia we have also just received the colored Advanced Tubing!


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Socks keep you warm*
> 
> You may need to contact your closest reseller and ask them.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> It's hit Australian stores also
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Australia we have also just received the colored Advanced Tubing!
> 
> 
> 
> Europe sucks lol!
Click to expand...


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Europe sucks lol!


Pretty much aha!


----------



## Qu1ckset

Im on Performance-pcs site and dont see this "Advanced LRT tubing" , on there site all i see is "PrimoFlex Pro LRT" is that the same thing?
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=59_413_292

i really want to get rid of this masterkleer crap, since i been only using it for a month and i see residue in all my fittings and a light coat on the inside of the tubes..


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Im on Performance-pcs site and dont see this "Advanced LRT tubing" , on there site all i see is "PrimoFlex Pro LRT" is that the same thing?
> http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=59_413_292
> i really want to get rid of this masterkleer crap, since i been only using it for a month and i see residue in all my fittings and a light coat on the inside of the tubes..


PRO LRT is the bad tubing it has to say ADVANCED LRT.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Well then performance-pcs.com doesnt carry it, but frozencpu.com has it
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/17585/ex-tub-1577/PrimoChill_PrimoFlex_Advanced_LRT_Tubing_12ID_x_34_OD_-_10ft_Retail_Pack_-_Clear_PFLEXA10-34.html?tl=g30c99s1614


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Im on Performance-pcs site and dont see this "Advanced LRT tubing" , on there site all i see is "PrimoFlex Pro LRT" is that the same thing?
> http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=59_413_292
> i really want to get rid of this masterkleer crap, since i been only using it for a month and i see residue in all my fittings and a light coat on the inside of the tubes..


Frozen definitely has it-ive seen it listed:http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l2/g30/c99/list/p3/Liquid_Cooling-Tubing.html?o=title_az

On what are you basing your decision to buy it, if i may ask?


----------



## paradoxum

Well I just contacted about 7 UK websites that sell watercooling products asking if/when they expect to have the new tubing in stock, hopefully soon if not i'mma have to pay out the ass and import from frozencpu. import tax is such a ripoff







customs


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Frozen definitely has it-ive seen it listed:http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l2/g30/c99/list/p3/Liquid_Cooling-Tubing.html?o=title_az
> On what are you basing your decision to buy it, if i may ask?


being better then masterkleep with platicizer issue... my system looks pretty bad and its only been a month


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> being better then masterkleep with platicizer issue... my system looks pretty bad and its only been a month


Ok. good luck with it


----------



## chrisf4lc0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Europe sucks lol!


I know have lived here for 30 years...


----------



## paradoxum

what US websites are selling the new LRT tubing in red or blue? I can only find the clear on frozencpu and I don't know any other popular US cooling websites that may ship internationally.


----------



## Hamy144

I can say that my change from XSPC to masterkleer has not held any better results than before, i have once again been hit by the plasticizer








I also think that plasticizer absorbs dyes sued in the system, can anyone else confirm my suspicions?
Im most likely not going to take apart my loopo until i have a better alternative which is plasticizer free so im most likely wont be able to show my findings for a while.


----------



## SilkyJohnson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hamy144*
> 
> I can say that my change from XSPC to masterkleer has not held any better results than before, i have once again been hit by the plasticizer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also think that plasticizer absorbs dyes sued in the system, can anyone else confirm my suspicions?
> Im most likely not going to take apart my loopo until i have a better alternative which is plasticizer free so im most likely wont be able to show my findings for a while.


Tygon makes a plasticizer free tubing that may be what you need. Performance PCs sells it though im not sure if they ship internationally. May wanna look into it. Its 4$a foot but at this point im sure you wouldnt mind it for peace of mind.


----------



## Hamy144

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SilkyJohnson*
> 
> Tygon makes a plasticizer free tubing that may be what you need. Performance PCs sells it though im not sure if they ship internationally. May wanna look into it. Its 4$a foot but at this point im sure you wouldnt mind it for peace of mind.


Going to be very expensive.
Then it reccomneds not using compression fittings which i have.
Then it has writing printed on it.
Thats not going to happen but thanks.


----------



## SilkyJohnson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hamy144*
> 
> Going to be very expensive.
> Then it reccomneds not using compression fittings which i have.
> Then it has writing printed on it.
> Thats not going to happen but thanks.


Durelene?


----------



## Hamy144

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SilkyJohnson*
> 
> Durelene?


International shipping?








Still has plasticizer but still dont want to be spending lots of money on tubing that could still cloud up.


----------



## DiGiCiDAL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hamy144*
> 
> International shipping?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still has plasticizer but still dont want to be spending lots of money on tubing that could still cloud up.


If you were willing to go with black but didn't like the writing, and your want to avoid plasticizer but not see clouded tubing - seems like a good candidate for sleeved tubing. That way if it's cloudy you don't see it, and if it's plasticizer-free then you don't have to worry about actual damage - just aesthetics. I realize it's a subjective thing - but I think sleeved tubing looks sweet... second only to copper pipes really. I wanted to do that with mine (and still will I think) but with 3/8X5/8 it's more difficult to find sleeving that fits but is very tight at 5/8" - most of the high-quality stuff is 1/2" (sata) or 3/4".


----------



## Hamy144

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiGiCiDAL*
> 
> If you were willing to go with black but didn't like the writing, and your want to avoid plasticizer but not see clouded tubing - seems like a good candidate for sleeved tubing. That way if it's cloudy you don't see it, and if it's plasticizer-free then you don't have to worry about actual damage - just aesthetics. I realize it's a subjective thing - but I think sleeved tubing looks sweet... second only to copper pipes really. I wanted to do that with mine (and still will I think) but with 3/8X5/8 it's more difficult to find sleeving that fits but is very tight at 5/8" - most of the high-quality stuff is 1/2" (sata) or 3/4".


I did contemplate sleeving my tubes but its not really going to help since my res just looks horrific at the moment.
Two older photos i had after 2 months


----------



## Homeronte

Hi guys, i want to show you my Durelene Tubing after 1 month, it seems to be yellow. I'm using Mayhems Pastel Blueberry. Also, it's worth to clarify that there's no sign of plasticizer on the tubing.

Tygon E-1000, Brand New Durelene, Used Durelene, and Used Durelene Cleaned with water.


As you can see, Tygon E-1000 is not as clear as Durelene.


----------



## ea3ot

Mas que amarillo, se ve como verdoso.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paradoxum*
> 
> what US websites are selling the new LRT tubing in red or blue? I can only find the clear on frozencpu and I don't know any other popular US cooling websites that may ship internationally.


Look back a few pages, i mentioned about the new LRT coloured tubing and when *THEY* (not my assumption







)said to me in an e mail it will be available-although the green is for sale in Australia according to 'Socks keep you warmer'

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hamy144*
> 
> I did contemplate sleeving my tubes but its not really going to help since my res just looks horrific at the moment.
> Two older photos i had after 2 months


I'm sorry to have to say this, but that visible mess looks nothing like plasticizer at all-that could be one of many problems, but i have seen many pics of plasticizer residue, plus i had suffered it myself-nothing like that im afraid to say. start looking at how long since you last cleaned your loop, flux problems, etc etc-i am not saying that is what your problem is, but imo i highly doubt that its plasticizer.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Homeronte*
> 
> Hi guys, i want to show you my Durelene Tubing after 1 month, it seems to be yellow. I'm using Mayhems Pastel Blueberry. Also, it's worth to clarify that there's no sign of plasticizer on the tubing.
> Tygon E-1000, Brand New Durelene, Used Durelene, and Used Durelene Cleaned with water.
> 
> As you can see, Tygon E-1000 is not as clear as Durelene.
> ]


Thanks very much for the pictures, every bit helps us to keep a sort of catalogue of tubing and its reactions to various coolants/liquids used within them.(+1 rep)

Note to those that don't know: the colouration on the tubing is *NOT* plasticizer, but mere staining that happens to *ALL* tubing with the use of dye (go to mayhems page for further info if not convinced), one more thing, and no apologies here:

The point of having this thread is to help each other out with information on tubing, where it can be purchased, how reliable it is etc-i keep seeing people (people that ask the same questions here) going over to the OCN gallery thread and asking where they can buy x tubing, or if x tubing has plasticizer probs etc.

Now im not a mod here, neither do i pretend to be, but firstly those questions over there are way off topic-hence the few replies, and secondly, whats the point of maintaining this thread then?


----------



## Hamy144

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> I'm sorry to have to say this, but that visible mess looks nothing like plasticizer at all-that could be one of many problems, but i have seen many pics of plasticizer residue, plus i had suffered it myself-nothing like that im afraid to say. start looking at how long since you last cleaned your loop, flux problems, etc etc-i am not saying that is what your problem is, but imo i highly doubt that its plasticizer.


Well that was after around two months of use after i last cleaned my loop.
That is exactly as it looked after the first time i build my loop up and tore it down again.
All the rads and blocks were flushed for a LONG time under high pressure filtrated water.
The residue inside the res is exactly the same as the residue on the inside of the tubing.
The single block was copper and the rads are copper and brass.
used a kill koil.

If not plasticizer then what?
Numerous people have said it was plasticizer.

If this looks the same once i move away from using plastic tubing then i will know its not plasticizer.


----------



## XViper2

The e1000 tygon seems pretty clear per the pictures.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paradoxum*
> 
> get off your high horse and stop backseat moderating, this thread is 211 pages long, if someone has a question you expect them to try and find it through here? if you don't want to help them and try to answer it, then DON'T. nobody is forcing you.


Im not backseat moderating at all-i gave you a polite and reasonable answer.

What makes matters worse, is that *THREE* pages back you asked for the same information with regards to the UK, and not only were you given the relevant information by myself without thanks, but you were also given information on where the tubing is available atm in the States-i was merely reminding you-(so much for having to read through 211 pages of information)-so save that unnecessary aggressive reply for the play-ground please.


----------



## wermad

Cleaned up my res yesterday. The liquid still looks uncontaminated but there was a lot of caking up on the tube and some residue on the res. Quick wipe down and it looks good again. The black fittings do show a bit of a whitish film inside of them. I'm going to rinse my loop w/ hot distilled before i drop the colored liquid back in.


----------



## ACallander

So I'm debating on the Tygon E-1000.. good tubing?


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Im not backseat moderating at all-i gave you a polite and reasonable answer.
> What makes matters worse, is that *THREE* pages back you asked for the same information with regards to the UK, and not only were you given the relevant information by myself without thanks, but you were also given information on where the tubing is available atm in the States-i was merely reminding you-(so much for having to read through 211 pages of information)-so save that unnecessary aggressive reply for the play-ground please.


Applause. I support the position that if someone cannot take the time to at least do a search on a thread before asking questions that have been answered many times, then why should anyone else take the time to answer. Nothing more annoying than, "I don't have time to read this thread" at the beginning of a post. I seldom know what the rest of the post says, as I don't have time to read it.

I'm not back seating either when I say that there are a few folks who have actually made a real contribution for us all in this thread. My hat is off to those folks.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ACallander*
> 
> So I'm debating on the Tygon E-1000.. good tubing?


not as flexable, and not as see threw watch this video and he will show the Tygon E-1000


----------



## vaporizer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ACallander*
> 
> So I'm debating on the Tygon E-1000.. good tubing?


I use the Tygon E-1000. Keep in mind that it comes with a slight haze in the tube to start. The tubing is soft so make sure you have the right fittings. I can pull off the tube from my barb/clamp fittings with not a lot of effort. I don't know how much I like that so I ordered some durelene for back up because it is so cheap. I figure if the durelene clouds up, I can just replace the tubing because it is so cheap.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> not as flexable, and not as see threw watch this video and he will show the Tygon E-1000


Hey Qu1ckset is the you in the vid? if yes lets do some cut out on the side panel and show off more the beauty you have inside







by the way the Tygon E-1000 it does looks like ****







you will be happy with Durelene.
like this here


----------



## goodtobeking

Well I couldnt figure out which tubing to buy so I bought both, 4 feet of primochill Advanced and 4 feet of Tygon silver. I really like how clear the primochill tubing is, and want to use that around the upper GPU/CPU area so it doesnt block too much view. But I have a ~2 foot piece I want to use down low running from front to back of my case with the silver.

I know a lot of people are bashing Primochill hard, I have done so as well, but I have a section of tubing in my rig thats over a year old and doesnt have any problems with plasterizer. Even with newer tubing with problems in the same loop. So Im willing to give them a chance, plus I really like how clear/clean it look from SockPirates pics.

Will post my opinions when the tubing comes in, and will try to remember to update after some usage in my rig. I expect to see problems early if I do. Mainly because I run BOINC dam near 24/7 on my CPU and GPUs, and my water temps run on average 90-100F and will go higher if I dont load my cpu(fans run off CPU temp)


----------



## goodtobeking

EDIT: sorry, OCN seems to be acting funny lately


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Hey Qu1ckset is the you in the vid? if yes lets do some cut out on the side panel and show off more the beauty you have inside
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by the way the Tygon E-1000 it does looks like ****
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you will be happy with Durelene.
> like this here


nope not my rig lol, someone else posted that vid somewhere on this forum, dont remember what thread it was or his username


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Hey Qu1ckset is the you in the vid? if yes lets do some cut out on the side panel and show off more the beauty you have inside
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by the way the Tygon E-1000 it does looks like ****
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you will be happy with Durelene.
> like this here


Mate i didnt realise this was yours-very nice piece of work







(+1 rep)


----------



## chrisf4lc0n

I am not sure if anyone will be interested in that, but just recently I asked about Durelene and new Primochill tubing 2 *UK* water cooling companies I use and that was their answer to that:

*Specialtech:*
"We do plan on getting both listed in the near future, however do not have an ETA as we are awaiting these to come into stock with our suppliers."

*C&C Central:*
"Yes we will certainly be stocking the LRT, but I have no definite date at the moment.
I will let you know once we have more info."

That means we just need to sit tight and wait, retailers would like to sell them products they are just waiting for suppliers to get them in stock...


----------



## NinjaSushi2

So is the consensus still Duralene?


----------



## She loved E

After all the nice things I've said about PC, I ran their clear tubing (bought ~2 mos ago from PPCs) for 4 hours and it clouded almost instantly. Bye bye, back to PC green (bought 1 mo ago from Amazon) and its fine.


----------



## paradoxum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *She loved E*
> 
> After all the nice things I've said about PC, I ran their clear tubing (bought ~2 mos ago from PPCs) for 4 hours and it clouded almost instantly. Bye bye, back to PC green (bought 1 mo ago from Amazon) and its fine.


PC = primochill?

my PC green has been fine for a year, too. it's strange, there must be some difference between the materials of the green and clear versions.


----------



## goodtobeking

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paradoxum*
> 
> PC = primochill?
> my PC green has been fine for a year, too. it's strange, there must be some difference between the materials of the green and clear versions.


Either that or its from the old batch. Only the newer PRO LRT tubing has this problem. I have old primochill tubing that doesnt show any problems, right next to newer primochill tubing that has cream cheese on the inside. Both the same color and make, just different batches.

My tubing should be in tomorrow. Will let you guys know my first impressions.


----------



## She loved E

yeah, primochill. the difference is odd... i thought maybe its because you can't see thru the green as much but it doesn't have that cloudy look either.

I heard primochill has been sending newer stuff to ppl who complain so i'm gonna drop them a note.


----------



## Systemlord

I received my 2 foot long Primochill Advanced LRT Tubing (clear) today, I will leave a piece under the hot tap water all night plus soak another piece is distilled water indefinitely. I'll report by end of day today, let the abuse begin.

*Updated*

Here are pictures of my Primochill's new Advanced LRT, the piece on the left was put in a coffie cup while under HOT tap water for 12 hours, can you tell which of the two clear pieces spent 12 hours in distilled water? I think it's safe to say that this new tubing is more resilient than any tubing before it if my memory serves correct, 12 hours under scalding hot tap water!


----------



## kkorky

12 hrs scalding water-thats alot of money to spend for heating in the name of research









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> I put this tubing through hot tap water (46C/115F) for quite a long time compared to previous testing, you may remember earlier what the old Primochill looked like after only a few hours seal in a medical jar with distilled water. We already have member's with more than three weeks using the new Primochill tubing without any signs of clouding, no brand of tubing has lasted this long without showing signs of clouding.


Not exactly true-but that's not the point i want to make;

1) firstly thanks for providing us with feedback with regards to your tubing (+1 rep) much appreciated.

2) 3 weeks is *NOT ENOUGH TIME* to base an informed opinion on.

Heat is only *ONE* of the variables that *MAY* cause plasticizer problems-lets not lose focus on the other variables.

3)Ive said it before, and ill say it again-its going to take a hell of alot more people using the tubing over an extended period of time before any proper conclusion can be made.

I know that everybody is eager to get good tubing, but an objective result cannot be attained unless we have a load of people using the new tubing for an extended period of time and providing feedback on their experience with the tubing-anything else is just sporadic feedback based on a few peoples ongoing 'home' experiments, and no self respecting company or user would base their choices or claims on such limited information.

I can see whats going to happen-10-15 people will say that they have no problems, and its going to catch on like wild fire, a small inconclusive test here, another over there and presto our problem has been solved......

-what happens though, if after a few months the tubing deteriorates? we will be left with a lot of angry consumers, or self apologetic users saying things like 'well at least it lasted longer than the old tubing'. ie compromising to cover their initial comments.

The idea is to get tubing that lasts a reasonable length of time without presenting problems isn't it?

All im saying is slow down people-noone more than myself wants this tubing to work, but i wont allow myself to become optimistic after a few weeks of usage in a few peoples rigs (*all of the above is MY opinion, nothing else*).

That having been said-each to their own









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> the clouding issue is the same as the white plasticizer issue or they two different things? , ive never used clear tubing yet, i had the colored uv tubing.. so far i might order duralene but if the new Advanced LRT tubing wont have the plasticizer issue il use that, its much clearer


All tubing suffers from some form of clouding or Haze as others like to call it-that is different to the 'cream cheese' deposits that plasticizer shows.


----------



## Qu1ckset

meh id rather see it run in a system for a month, thats how long it took my masterkleer tubing to shed its plasticizer...


----------



## ceteris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> 12 hrs scalding water-thats alot of money to spend for heating in the name of research


Not if he's leasing like I am. That's what's silly about SoCal utilities IMO. Lots of apt's here only have 1 meter for the entire building so the landlords usually give out free water. Unfortunately its 4x more in electricity here than it was for us in Washington state. Left practically everything on all night (ie. 2 computers, fall asleep with TV on without using sleep mode, lamps, etc.) back in Seattle and our power bill never exceeded $50 per month.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> meh id rather see it run in a system for a month, thats how long it took my masterkleer tubing to shed its plasticizer...


I put this tubing through hot tap water (46C/115F) for quite a long time compared to previous testing, you may remember earlier what the old Primochill looked like after only a few hours seal in a medical jar with distilled water. We already have member's with more than three weeks using the new Primochill tubing without any signs of clouding, no brand of tubing has lasted this long without showing signs of clouding.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ceteris*
> 
> Not if he's leasing like I am. That's what's silly about SoCal utilities IMO. Lots of *apt's here only have 1 meter for the entire building* so the landlords usually give out *free water*. Unfortunately its 4x more in electricity here than it was for us in Washington state. Left practically everything on all night (ie. 2 computers, fall asleep with TV on without using sleep mode, lamps, etc.) back in Seattle and our power bill never exceeded $50 per month.


You guess correctly! b


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> I put this tubing through hot tap water (46C/115F) for quite a long time compared to previous testing, you may remember earlier what the old Primochill looked like after only a few hours seal in a medical jar with distilled water. We already have member's with more than three weeks using the new Primochill tubing without any signs of clouding, no brand of tubing has lasted this long without showing signs of clouding.


the clouding issue is the same as the white plasticizer issue or they two different things? , ive never used clear tubing yet, i had the colored uv tubing.. so far i might order duralene but if the new Advanced LRT tubing wont have the plasticizer issue il use that, its much clearer


----------



## Systemlord

Something unexpected has happened, I just looked at the piece of tubing I put through hell has for some reason lost a bit of the clouding it had earlier today! Could it be because the tubing absorbed the hot water and is now dryer now? I'm sold on this tubing, buying red as soon as possible!


----------



## Bigbrag

Sweet. I have 20ft of Primochill Advanced clear coming tomorrow. I wrote primochill and told them of my problems and showed them my proof of purchase and got the tubing replaced. I'm pretty happy with the customer service I got. Now I hopeful won't have to worry about any plasticizer.


----------



## goodtobeking

What brand and which tubing is the tortured tubing??

BTW I got my tubing in today. Tygon Silver and Primochill Advanced. Both about the same flexibilty. The Tygon is really interesting. It is actually a clear tubing, with a silver film on the inside. Not as solid as the cream cheese in my Primochill Pro tubing I have now, but not transparent either. I like how it looks, but it has that dam print on it. Hard to see at least since its silver on silver.

Going to tear down my rig after I post this, so I will let you allknow how it goes.

Side note: can I get some opinions in this thread??


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *goodtobeking*
> 
> What brand and which tubing is the tortured tubing??
> BTW I got my tubing in today. Tygon Silver and Primochill Advanced. Both about the same flexibilty. The Tygon is really interesting. It is actually a clear tubing, with a silver film on the inside. Not as solid as the cream cheese in my Primochill Pro tubing I have now, but not transparent either. I like how it looks, but it has that dam print on it. Hard to see at least since its silver on silver.
> Going to tear down my rig after I post this, so I will let you allknow how it goes.
> Side note: can I get some opinions in this thread??


A little rubbing alcohol on some cotton wool, will solve your print problem on your tubing (emphasis on a *LITTLE*)


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *goodtobeking*
> 
> What brand and which tubing is the tortured tubing??
> BTW I got my tubing in today. Tygon Silver and Primochill Advanced. Both about the same flexibilty. The Tygon is really interesting. It is actually a clear tubing, with a silver film on the inside. Not as solid as the cream cheese in my Primochill Pro tubing I have now, but not transparent either. I like how it looks, but it has that dam print on it. Hard to see at least since its silver on silver.
> Going to tear down my rig after I post this, so I will let you allknow how it goes.
> Side note: can I get some opinions in this thread??


PrimochilI is the tubing used for testing abuse. Took apart my loop two months ago that was using the Tygon Silver tubing for two full years without changing the water and there was zero plasticizer, there was a slight haze/stain but nothing worth a second thought since you can't see it anyhow.


----------



## sticks435

My Durelene I installed back in July has turned a slight green/yellow color finally, just like everyone else seems to have reported. Planning on doing some upgrades after the first of the year, so will probably run it like this until then and buy some blue Advanced LRT if it continues to look good.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Well i ordered 10ft of PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT Tubing, decided il take the chance if it ends up having the plasticizer issue, i will switch to duralene


----------



## PCModderMike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sticks435*
> 
> My Durelene I installed back in July has turned a slight green/yellow color finally, just like everyone else seems to have reported. Planning on doing some upgrades after the first of the year, so will probably run it like this until then and buy some blue Advanced LRT if it continues to look good.


Can I see some pics of that? If you have a chance. I've used Primochill in the past, and I'm a new user to Durelene....so I'm interested in seeing others long term experiences with it.


----------



## Systemlord

I don't believe it, that picture of the piece of Primochill Advanced LRT tubing that used to have a white haze after 12 hours under hot tap water is now clear as if it were new again! The only thing I can think of is the hot water caused it to swell up, after cooling down it seems to have returned to a clear state!

Unbelievable!


----------



## wermad

Got my order of Duralene from swc.com. Sadly, they sent the wrong size







. Waiting on response to send the correct size.


----------



## Kevdog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Got my order of Duralene from swc.com. Sadly, they sent the wrong size
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Waiting on response to send the correct size.


Bummer ^

I received replacement tubing from Primochill today in "BLOODSHED RED"


----------



## wermad

^^^Nice on the lrt adv.

Got a reply from Gary himself and he's shipping out the right one for me


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kevdog*
> 
> Bummer ^
> 
> I received replacement tubing from Primochill today in "BLOODSHED RED"
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1163998/


Oh man they already have their shipment of colored tubing, I want some to! Could I buy it directly from Primochill?


----------



## wermad

Looks like I'll be keeping the 20' of 3/8x1/2 Duralene they sent by accident. Any one interested send me a pm. I'm not interested in making a profit just enough to cover shipping


----------



## Qu1ckset

What can I use to flush out the left over plasticizer in my loop, that wont harm my blocks and rads, I've seen pics of what viniger can do to the finishes on chrome colored fittings which I don't have (matte black BP fittings), I'm going to open up my CPU block, but need something to flush my two rads, gpu block and fittings


----------



## sticks435

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCModderMike*
> 
> Can I see some pics of that? If you have a chance. I've used Primochill in the past, and I'm a new user to Durelene....so I'm interested in seeing others long term experiences with it.





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> What can I use to flush out the left over plasticizer in my loop, that wont harm my blocks and rads, I've seen pics of what viniger can do to the finishes on chrome colored fittings which I don't have (matte black BP fittings), I'm going to open up my CPU block, but need something to flush my two rads, gpu block and fittings


Very hot water and vinegar for your Rads (70%/30%)-wear gloves(yes that hot!) and give it the old shake treatment. Chances are though, that the amount of plasticizer residue left in your rads is minimal at best -plasticizer tends to primarily congregate in the tubing itself.

The blocks , simply remove them, open them and clean them with a soft rag, any plasticizer will wipe away very easily-then re assemble-obviously don't forget to fully flush your re assembled system with Distilled water afterwards.

One final tip-if you notice after cracking your blocks open, very little or no plasticizer deposits, then your rads wont even need the water\/vinegar treatment.

Its an easy job to do, but time consuming-have fun, hope this helps









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sticks435*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


That green tinge is absolutely normal for used tubing, the colour may be more intense due to dye usage, but even just Distilled water/SKC & a biocide will do this to *ALL* tubing after some time-and i mean *ALL*.

It isnt visually evident in coloured tubing for the obvious reasons


----------



## PCModderMike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sticks435*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Bummer


----------



## Buzzkill

I used Primochill PrimoFlex Pro LRT with Primochill PC Ice and had Plasticizer Problems. I only use silver kill coil (as instructed by Frozen Cpu). Frozen Cpu recomented PC Ice. Nothing added to PC Ice (Dead Water, Etc). I had XSPC Red/Orange and I didn't show any plasticizer.


----------



## Systemlord

I just purchased my Bloodshed Red Primochill Primoflex Advanced LRT tubing from Amazon, they have about ten in each color! Tuesday is when I get wet!


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> I just purchased my Bloodshed Red Primochill Primoflex Advanced LRT tubing from Amazon, they have about ten in each color! Tuesday is when I get wet!


Ten? explain plse


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Very hot water and vinegar for your Rads (70%/30%)-wear gloves(yes that hot!) and give it the old shake treatment. Chances are though, that the amount of plasticizer residue left in your rads is minimal at best -plasticizer tends to primarily congregate in the tubing itself.
> The blocks , simply remove them, open them and clean them with a soft rag, any plasticizer will wipe away very easily-then re assemble-obviously don't forget to fully flush your re assembled system with Distilled water afterwards.
> One final tip-if you notice after cracking your blocks open, very little or no plasticizer deposits, then your rads wont even need the water\/vinegar treatment.
> Its an easy job to do, but time consuming-have fun, hope this helps


Ya so i opened up my cpu block and didn't notice any plasticizer what so ever, i cleaned it anyways, im going to be cleaning my fittings tho, and then do a flush


----------



## ceteris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> I just purchased my Bloodshed Red Primochill Primoflex Advanced LRT tubing from Amazon, they have about ten in each color! Tuesday is when I get wet!


Oh man! I want to see pics of it all attached!

EDIT: Just checked Amazon and no black yet


----------



## Qu1ckset

im starting to second guess myself about ordering Clear Primochill Primoflex Advanced LRT tubing, no where on the box or there site does it say anything about reduced plasticizer or anything like that, i really hope, its not like my current masterkleer....


----------



## Kevdog

PrimoChill sent a bottle of SysPrep along with the new Adv LRT, I wonder if its the same as the SysScrubber, they want you to run it the first 12 hours and then drain it, and fill as you wish,







makes me wonder!


----------



## Bigbrag

I didn't use the system prep on my new build. I don't see the purpose for it, but I guess I'll find out if I have issues with the new advanced tubing.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> im starting to second guess myself about ordering Clear Primochill Primoflex Advanced LRT tubing, no where on the box or there site does it say anything about reduced plasticizer or anything like that, i really hope, its not like my current masterkleer....


Only one way to find out









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kevdog*
> 
> PrimoChill sent a bottle of SysPrep along with the new Adv LRT, I wonder if its the same as the SysScrubber, they want you to run it the first 12 hours and then drain it, and fill as you wish,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> makes me wonder!


Rhetorical question:Since when have you ever used tubing that necessitated the use of an aggressive substance within your loop for it (your tubing) to work properly-your train of thought imo is correct (comparing it to sys scrubber).

What happens if in the long run, that sysprep causes problems to your blocks/pump etc-does it clearly state what the sysprep entails in so far as chemicals are concerned?

I for one shall not be using sysprep at all.


----------



## goodtobeking

Ok peeps I couldnt decide on which tubing to get so I got 4 feet of Tygon Silver and 4 feet of Primochill Advanced clear. Worked out just how I had planned, beautifully. Tubing wise I really like the Tygon silver, the tubing itself is actually clear but just has a lining(like the plasterizer in Primochill LRT but looks good) which gives it a different look than I had planned. Good thing is I like it better than I thought I would. Only downside I found with it is that it was hard as hell to put the rings on my Monsoon compression fittings. For some reason it seemed like the Tygon is a little larger than 3/4, and a little more "tacky" than the Primochill Adv. The Primochill Adv however was very easy to put the rings for the compression fittings on...almost too easy lol. The Primochill Adv is very clear, and worked very good at being visible, but not taking your eye off the rest of the system. Both tubings seemed to have the same bending radius, which is good.


----------



## paradoxum

Does ANYWHERE outside of Amazon US have the Bloodshed Red tubing in stock yet? www.amazon.com/dp/B00A93CSZS/

I will even buy from another US site if they ship internationally, but that seller on Amazon.com does not.


----------



## ceteris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paradoxum*
> 
> Does ANYWHERE outside of Amazon US have the Bloodshed Red tubing in stock yet? www.amazon.com/dp/B00A93CSZS/
> I will even buy from another US site if they ship internationally, but that seller on Amazon.com does not.


Just a matter of time before Frozen CPU or Performance PCs gets it. Although PPC's has yet to get the clear one. Its on Amazon because its directly from the company and relatively easy and cheaper for them to sell through them than it is to do it on eBay.


----------



## chrisf4lc0n

Masterkleer tubing after nearly 9 months with Mayhems Pastel Blueberry, I do not think it is plasticizer, its a bit cloudy but no leaching...


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisf4lc0n*
> 
> Masterkleer tubing after nearly 9 months with Mayhems Pastel Blueberry, I do not think it is plasticizer, its a bit cloudy but no leaching...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


wow you should see my masterkleer tubing after one month, plasticizer everywhere!


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> wow you should see my masterkleer tubing after one month, plasticizer everywhere!


pics or not happen


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> pics or not happen


Masterkleer Purple UV tubing after 1 month with distilled water and silver killcoil


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Masterkleer Purple UV tubing after 1 month with distilled water and silver killcoil
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


That's was what I want to see.







same powder coat in the tubing and fittings like Primochill but with less cream chease


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> That's was what I want to see.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> same powder coat in the tubing and fittings like Primochill but with less cream chease


Well im hoping the new Primochill Advance LRT tubing doesnt have this problem. Thankfully when i opened up my cpu block there wasnt any sign of the plasticizer in it, so im guessing my rads and gpu block are fine!


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Masterkleer Purple UV tubing after 1 month with distilled water and silver killcoil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


My fittings are looking a bit like this. I'm hoping swc.com sent my correct size tube soon to get started this week.


----------



## paradoxum

I made a ticket with primochill, complained about my CPU block getting filled with their white gunk months ago causing the tubes to heat up around the block and come loose from the fittings, they didn't go so far as to replace my dead graphics card that resulted from the problem (not like I was expecting that) but they did offer to send me some new of their Advanced tubing, if I paid for the shipping. So I agreed and now i'm getting some of that in the mail. Hooray.


----------



## Systemlord

I received my Bloodshed Red Primoflex Advanced LRT today, it's a bit harder than the older Primoflex LRT! What's even more interesting is the clear Advanced LRT is noticeably harder than my Bloodshed Red, my guess is why Primochill did this was because it's more important to keep the clear tubing cleaner since it's very easy to see through.

*The SysPrep Cooling Loop Pre-Treatment Treats 1 US gallon, "use at your own risk!"*


----------



## PTCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> *..."use at your own risk!"*


Yikes!


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PTCB*
> 
> Yikes!


It states this on the box, it would be nice to know the ingredients! Maybe it might be a better idea to use the SysPrep in just the tubing by itself since that's where the problem began, we all know it wasn't our nickel plated blocks, acrylic tops and radiators! *Truth second exit*!


----------



## 02ssei

Kind of strange. I didn't get this sys prep stuff when I was sent the advanced LRT. 1 month with the clear advanced LRT and still looking crystal clear.


----------



## chrisf4lc0n

Just started a test with Blue Alphacool 3/8-1/2" tubing, put it into a glass of water and sat on my radiator... will report back in a few days:


----------



## Hamy144

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisf4lc0n*
> 
> Just started a test with Blue Alphacool 3/8-1/2" tubing, put it into a glass of water and sat on my radiator... will report back in a few days


That's a genius way of testing tubing, im want to see how it fairs


----------



## wermad

Duralene just came in


----------



## ceteris

FYI FrozenCPU just got a bunch of the Primochill Advanced LRT in multiple flavors including red, white, black and blue on top of the clear.

Primochill Advanced LRT @ Frozen CPU


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ceteris*
> 
> FYI FrozenCPU just got a bunch of the Primochill Advanced LRT in multiple flavors including red, white, black and blue on top of the clear.
> Primochill Advanced LRT @ Frozen CPU


Hoorah.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> 
> Duralene just came in


----------



## barracks510

so basically, there's no such thing as placticizer free tubing?


----------



## sticks435

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barracks510*
> 
> so basically, there's no such thing as placticizer free tubing?


Duralene hasn't had any issues so far and the early results for Primochill Advanced look good, so I would say there could be 2.


----------



## PTCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sticks435*
> 
> _Duralene hasn't had any issues so far_ and the early results for Primochill Advanced look good, so I would say there could be 2.


Durelene:
Discoloration and clouding = Yes
Creamy gunk and flaking = No


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PTCB*
> 
> Durelene:
> Discoloration and clouding = Yes
> Creamy gunk and flaking = No


let me correct this

Durelene:
Discoloration and haze = no
Creamy gunk and flaking = No


----------



## goodtobeking

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barracks510*
> 
> so basically, there's no such thing as placticizer free tubing?


Some brands advertise plasterizer free tubing. Like my Tygon Silver tubing IIRC, but who really knows. Nothing is 100% sure yet. I think it depends on the batches as much as the brands. Primochill proved this. But Durelene is what everyone is recommending.

If you need tubing now I would recommend these three, but no promises, Durelene, Tygon, Primochill Advance. Pretty much in that order IMO mainly because Durelene is so cheap compared to the other two.


----------



## PTCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> let me correct this
> Durelene:
> Discoloration and haze = no
> Creamy gunk and flaking = No


What about the folks who have cloudy/hazy Durelene, me included? Sorry, ain't got time to go through the thread again and posting links to all the people who have problem with Durelene. It's only a few pages back anyway.

I guess your Durelene is still clear. If that's the case, then good on you. But, it does NOT mean that it's problem-free.


----------



## sticks435

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barracks510*
> 
> so basically, there's no such thing as placticizer free tubing?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PTCB*
> 
> What about the folks who have cloudy/hazy Durelene, me included? Sorry, ain't got time to go through the thread again and posting links to all the people who have problem with Durelene. It's only a few pages back anyway.
> I guess your Durelene is still clear. If that's the case, then good on you. But, it does NOT mean that it's problem-free.


Notice what barracks510 asked. He asked about plasticizer free tubing, he didn't say problem free tubing. The issues with Duralene are NOT related to plasticizer, they are normal issues with having hot water flow through tubing and being exposed to air and anti bacteria compounds.


----------



## PTCB

Yes, but look at what I wrote:
Quote:


> Durelene:
> Discoloration and clouding = Yes
> Creamy gunk and flaking = No


I did not mention anything about the plastizer problem. I was merely suggesting that while it's plastizicer free (as you called it), it also has other issues. Sorta like FYI. It's only when skyn3t corrected me. And that's another issue entirely.

EDIT: I also believe everyone has the right to know about these other issues. Because, I for one wouldn't get the Durelene if I had known about the white haze.


----------



## PapaSmurf6768

Just got my advanced LRT replacement from PC, I'll be using it once I get my GPU block around Christmas, and I'll report back. This will be coming from a system that got some crazy plasticizer buildup on the old LRT.


----------



## DerComissar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PTCB*
> 
> Yes, but look at what I wrote:
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Durelene:
> Discoloration and clouding = Yes
> Creamy gunk and flaking = No
> 
> 
> 
> I did not mention anything about the plastizer problem. I was merely suggesting that while it's plastizicer free (as you called it), it also has other issues. Sorta like FYI. It's only when skyn3t corrected me. And that's another issue entirely.
> 
> EDIT: I also believe everyone has the right to know about these other issues. Because, I for one wouldn't get the Durelene if I had known about the white haze.
Click to expand...

Be sure to tell us all what tubing you do feel is completely "issue free", and doesn't ever cloud or discolor, when you come across it


----------



## feniks

contacted PC again, this time that nice Jennifer took my ticket, we settled that I cover shipping ($9) and they sent me a 10ft retail pack of 1/2'' x 3/4'' Advanced LRT in Blue UV as a replacement. for now I stick to my Feser UV Active Blue, will keep this one as a replacement for future.

I officially cease fire with PC for now as it got a bit ugly at some point on both sides in past ... let the past stay behind.

so far I like initial reviews coming in on Advanced LRT, hoping it's as good as it seems it is, want no surprises in future like I had with highly recommended (in past) Primoflex...


----------



## wermad

Duralene is slightly smaller than the Primochill. A bit tight on the barb portion of the comp fittings but the top piece screws on with a lot of ease. No leaks so far







. Lets see how it fairs:


----------



## Penryn

Guys let's not bash each other here. This is a haven for information, let's let it stay that way. Thanks~


----------



## chrisf4lc0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisf4lc0n*
> 
> Just started a test with Blue Alphacool 3/8-1/2" tubing, put it into a glass of water and sat on my radiator... will report back in a few days:


All right 3 days have gone and all the water from the glass has evaporated, leaving some scale. My heater must have been something like 60*C+ as I could not touch it (it was cold down here...), so the testing condition were pretty rough, water must have heated up to more that 40*C. Missus chrisf4lc0n did not allow me to carry on the test for any time longer as she kept saying, that I would spill the water all over one day, women know nothing about the science








Anyway these are the results of the test:





No changes to the colour of the tubing, did not go white and definitely did not cook like Zalman's tubes...
I am aware that it has only been 3 days, but that gives me a good reason to install that tubing in my loop.


----------



## discipline

Well I finally tore down my system and replaced the tubing and water and washed my fittings. I was using UV blue Dangerden Dreamflex tubing 1/2" ID 3/4" OD. These are some pics of 11 months after installation:

Ring in the res:



believe it or not the water was actually still clear

here is some buildup on the cathode in the middle of my res:


ok here is the plasticizer it was like this in every single tube except a bit more white in others:


after I saw this I cracked open all my blocks and there wasn't hardly anything in them. Pretty clean for the most part but I'm sure there was some residue.

And here is the after pic. I bought a couple more fittings to clean up the tubing from my old loop and by getting rid of a ton of unnecessary tubing I killed the small vibration problem I was having! So now my comp is whisper quiet woo! Also using duralene for the new tubing


and last just some more comparison shots, used on the left new on the right:


----------



## feniks

DanderDen tubing is known for the same poor performance as Primoflex LRT was, some say it was a re-brand of primoflex... google it ... at some point (before closing the store) DangerDen started selling Feser instead...


----------



## Hokies83

So what are the current suggest tubing brands to use?


----------



## kkorky




----------



## goodtobeking

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *goodtobeking*
> 
> *snip*
> If you need tubing now I would recommend these three, but no promises, Durelene, Tygon, Primochill Advance. Pretty much in that order IMO mainly because Durelene is so cheap compared to the other two.


----------



## DerComissar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*


^
This.
Rep+


----------



## kcuestag

Too bad we can't get Duralene or Primochill Advanced LRT here in Europe, it seems like I have no proper tubing I could buy if I wanted clear tubing to use with some mayhems dye or something.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kcuestag*
> 
> Too bad we can't get Duralene or Primochill Advanced LRT here in Europe, it seems like I have no proper tubing I could buy if I wanted clear tubing to use with some mayhems dye or something.


you can order from sidewindercomputers.com Gary can ship to Europe.


----------



## wermad

And now...the waiting game









So far so good in these last few days


----------



## Hokies83

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> And now...the waiting game
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So far so good in these last few days


Which brand are you using?

Just started following this thread.. and read maybe the first 5 pages..

Im thinking of going with this myself..


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kcuestag*
> 
> Too bad we can't get Duralene or Primochill Advanced LRT here in Europe, it seems like I have no proper tubing I could buy if I wanted clear tubing to use with some mayhems dye or something.


Actually, i have some good news for you









My mate made this post a few days ago, so im guessing that in the new year Europe will be catered for as well








*
POST: 2121*
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisf4lc0n*
> 
> I am not sure if anyone will be interested in that, but just recently I asked about Durelene and new Primochill tubing 2 *UK* water cooling companies I use and that was their answer to that:
> *Specialtech:*
> "We do plan on getting both listed in the near future, however do not have an ETA as we are awaiting these to come into stock with our suppliers."
> *C&C Central:*
> "Yes we will certainly be stocking the LRT, but I have no definite date at the moment.
> I will let you know once we have more info."
> That means we just need to sit tight and wait, retailers would like to sell them products they are just waiting for suppliers to get them in stock...


Contact Adrian Mundy and or Steve Probert over @ Specialtech, they should be able to give you more indepth info-patience young Padawan









NOTE: ofc you can order from the States, but the postage is ridiculous!

Dont believe me, see for yourself-go to the link ( http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/othertubing.html), enter amt (its in feet remember), then afterwards use the shipping calc (use priority mail international-its the cheapest that *they use*),

Then sit back and watch your jaw drop to the floor









Also, you can use clearflex 60 (cheap & available in Europe)-i have tried it out (as per Mick's suggestion-Owner of Mayhem's), and it was fine-i used UV pastel white, and the tubing has only shown the haze/slight staining that is to be expected from all tubing.

He(Mick) also suggested using Masteecleer clear.

Have a read here (scroll down) as to what tubing he recommends for use with his products.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1286896/mayhems-users-club

Two things i will say:

i am not saying that they are the best in the market at present, a general consensus has been reached on that topic -one need only look backwards into the thread









I do not think that he is 'pushing' any type of particular tubing forward-ie endorsing it, if one reads carefully, one can see that he mentions different types of tubing according to which one of his products are used.

You could also try Feser, i myself & others on this thread have used it without any plasticizer problems whatsoever.

I will not comment on the new Primochill tubing, because the tubing is in its infancy in so far as testing/use goes within the consumers sphere of things-3-4 weeks of 'all is clear' isnt enough time-but one hopes that it will work


----------



## kcuestag

Well that's some great news, I'll wait until they stock it in Europe!


----------



## kkorky

you're welcome


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hokies83*
> 
> Which brand are you using?
> Just started following this thread.. and read maybe the first 5 pages..
> Im thinking of going with this myself..


Duralene


----------



## Hokies83

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Duralene


Ah yeah i looked at that stuff to great prices.

But id rather just get some red tubing then clear and add dye to it.

What liked the most was that tubing where nothing grows in it but that stuff was out of my price range and not red =/


----------



## DiGiCiDAL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hokies83*
> 
> So what are the current suggest tubing brands to use?


I'm pretty sure some kittens died as a result of this post.

On a side note: XSPC tubing still working great for me with no signs of plasticizer leeching at all - although if temps are really the biggest factor then I wouldn't expect problems since even benching my water never gets over 33C. I'm redoing my loop soon so I'll see if anything changed in the last month or so.


----------



## Hokies83

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiGiCiDAL*
> 
> I'm pretty sure some kittens died as a result of this post.
> On a side note: XSPC tubing still working great for me with no signs of plasticizer leeching at all - although if temps are really the biggest factor then I wouldn't expect problems since even benching my water never gets over 33C. I'm redoing my loop soon so I'll see if anything changed in the last month or so.


Why is that?

I seen the one user's suggested brands yes but they could have just been his opinion getting more then one is the way to go..


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hokies83*
> 
> Why is that?
> I seen the one user's suggested brands yes but they could have just been his opinion getting more then one is the way to go..


Because the opinions are almost as varied as the brands of tubing available. What one person swears by, another ridicules. There is also a reluctance to, yet once again, attempt to sum up this thread for someone who has not been following it. I could tell you what I am using, however, it would just be recreating what has been said many times already, and others will have to do the same to support their viewpoint.

I suggest you do a search of this thread using different brand names, such as duralene, advanced, feser etc and read the information presented and make up your own mind.


----------



## DerComissar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Hokies83*
> 
> Why is that?
> I seen the one user's suggested brands yes but they could have just been his opinion getting more then one is the way to go..
> 
> 
> 
> Because the opinions are almost as varied as the brands of tubing available. What one person swears by, another ridicules. There is also a reluctance to, yet once again, attempt to sum up this thread for someone who has not been following it. I could tell you what I am using, however, it would just be recreating what has been said many times already, and others will have to do the same to support their viewpoint.
> 
> I suggest you do a search of this thread using different brand names, such as duralene, advanced, feser etc and read the information presented and make up your own mind.
Click to expand...

^
This.
Rep+


----------



## Buzzkill

When you contact Primo Chill they claim there is no PLASTICIZER problem. They link to PLASTICIZER RUMOR DEBUNKED!!. They offer to replace tubing with new advanced tubing; But Shipping and handling is not included in the replacement. Which is reasonable because they are shipping replacement tubing. They claim there is no problem but there is a lot of people with white hazed tubing.

Any one have problems with XSPC tubing. I only had red/orange XSPC and I made test with it. The XSPC didn't show a white film like the Primo chill.


----------



## Hokies83

i got some primo chill advanced otw hope there is no issues


----------



## DiGiCiDAL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzkill*
> 
> Any one have problems with XSPC tubing. I only had red/orange XSPC and I made test with it. The XSPC didn't show a white film like the Primo chill.


I also have not had any problems with XSPC tubing (I have the black) although it obviously has some form of plasticizer in it because it is pretty flexible for 1/4" thick tubing (I'm using 3/8X5/8). Of course, my experience and yours are anecdotal and not necessarily indicative of a trend... unlike the issues with PC Pro were.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hokies83*
> 
> Why is that?
> I seen the one user's suggested brands yes but they could have just been his opinion getting more then one is the way to go..


Capt Proton said it better than I could have - I understand the desire for a cliff's notes version - but that's what thread search is good for. If there were a simple, concise answer to the question then there wouldn't be 2200+ posts in this thread.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Got my pirmochill tubing


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Got my pirmochill tubing


Awesomesauce!









~Ceadder


----------



## kkorky

For those of you interested in Red coloured tubing-TFC Feser have just released a new type of red tubing.

It is not transparent and is a very deep red, i learned about it when i was notified by DazMode videos that i subscribe to.

The link is posted below-I DO NOT KNOW ANY MORE DETAILS, PLEASE USE GOOGLE TO FIND OUT MORE IF INTERESTED









I'm not in the slightest bit interested in red tubing, but i know that many of you out there are, and secondly, as someone who has used Feser tubing in the past, i can personally say that i personally have had no problems with plasticizer.

I have no idea about the new tubing with regards to plasticizer issues, all i will say is that like the new Primochill Advanced tubing, it will take time for any useful feedback to come in (6 months to be safe).

Hope this helps you 'red or dead' guys out there


----------



## Creator

Stock XPSC tubing from about 3 months ago. I finally took it apart and replaced it with durelene. The water that came out looked clean, and was tested at normal ph levels. I didn't have any buildup in my block, just oxidation which I cleaned most of off using ketchup. I wasn't concerned about getting it all because I know it will oxidation again anyway. I also rinsed out my radiator and res.



This time I am not using a kill coil, because it actually looks a little bit "dirty", but the picture may not show this. It's got some yellowing going on, so I am going with PT Nuke. I also went and got some laboratory grade clean DI water from my university, as opposed to buying something from the store. I know DI isn't recommended, but it doesn't take much to ionize it, and we run this water through our equipment (includes some copper) all the time without it corroding anything.

Hopefully it doesn't happen again and the durelene works, because it looks horrible. I am now bleeding the durelene loop overnight, and I will add the PT Nuke after the water level looks stable.


----------



## feniks

my silver k8ill coil looked same covered with some yellowish sediment when I used it with XSPC kit (Dual Bay res 750LPH) and xspc clear tubing which in fact looked exactly same crappy as yours does. water was clean, but it had a distinct smell to it, can't say what it was, but I as well flushed all components with vinegar and distilled water and cleaned the kill coil with a brush.

just an idea ... if you are using a Dual Bay res with 750 X2O pump as I did in past ... do you see a yellowish water line in it? I think those pumps are not sealed well and corrode over time and that yellowish sediment start circulating in the loop staining the tubing to the greenish-yellowish clouded tint and making the silver kill coil look like it does. I am not sure, but maybe X20 750 pump contains some aluminum parts making contact with water, perhaps that's what causes the galvanic corrosion over time? not sure.

I still use the same silver kill coil and plain distilled water now with Feser Tubing and a D5 Strong pump, so the only components that are same (when compared to original XSPC kit) are radiators and block, and zero problems. just a though. besides XSPC tubing clouds over time on its own, just saying what *might* have happened to the coil.


----------



## Creator

I use the D5 pump, and I didn't notice anything water line on the res window. I don't have a spare coil anyway. I'll keep the Feser + coil combination in mind though, if needed (hopefully not though!).

Edit : And yes the smell! I think I totally know what your talking about... The stock tubing doesn't have an odor, but the dirty tubing smells like... really strong... plastic?! Even the outside of the dirty tubing smells.


----------



## feniks

I think I know where it is coming from then ... XSPC rads! I haven't flushed mine during initial install, have you? that smell was weird, almost alkaline or something similar or a very cheap stinky plastic. even the water smelled like it during a few drains on my system. it went away completely after I flushed all components and swapped tubing (primoflex LRT at that time, gave me a different headache later).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creator*
> 
> I use the D5 pump, and I didn't notice anything water line on the res window. I don't have a spare coil anyway. I'll keep the Feser + coil combination in mind though, if needed (hopefully not though!).
> Edit : And yes the smell! I think I totally know what your talking about... The stock tubing doesn't have an odor, but the dirty tubing smells like... really strong... plastic?! Even the outside of the dirty tubing smells.


----------



## PepeLapiu

Okay, so no way I am going to read the whole thread.
But is there a consensus on at least one good brand of tubing?
Are there any tubing known not to leach out plasticizer?


----------



## wermad

sold my 240 rad and I'm waiting on a 3rd 360 to come in. In the mean time, I used a few pieces of the primochill tube to temporarily plumb my loop. Damn, the res got layered quickly all within less then a week. I did use pieces that were already leaching. Decided to break down my loop for now until I can plumb the new rad w/ some of my Duralene I have. Good thing I ordered 20'


----------



## Lareson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PepeLapiu*
> 
> Okay, so no way I am going to read the whole thread.
> But is there a consensus on at least one good brand of tubing?
> Are there any tubing known not to leach out plasticizer?


Durelene looks to be the one to have no plasticizer buildup and is what I've gotten recommendations to use (with Mayhem dyes if you want it colored) hence why I'll be using it in my build.

Sidewider Computers sells it in all sorts of sizes:
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/othertubing.html


----------



## Creator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> I think I know where it is coming from then ... XSPC rads! *I haven't flushed mine during initial install, have you?* that smell was weird, almost alkaline or something similar or a very cheap stinky plastic. even the water smelled like it during a few drains on my system. it went away completely after I flushed all components and swapped tubing (primoflex LRT at that time, gave me a different headache later).


Guilty.









Was flushed this time though.


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creator*
> 
> Guilty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was flushed this time though.


haha, yeah same here








XSPC rads are awesome, but they require an initial flush ... some of them carry so much post-process crap inside... my RX240 was having some whitish stuff coming out of it during the flush, however EX360 was nearly clean as whistle.


----------



## 02ssei

Strange how it is hit or miss. My buddy had black specks come out of his AX480, but I had nothing in my EX360 and RX240.


----------



## Systemlord

Has anyone flushed a Hardware Labs radiator before and if so was there any debris?


----------



## HiTekJeff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Has anyone flushed a Hardware Labs radiator before and if so was there any debris?


I have with the SR-1 models. They did have some debris, but not a lot. Mostly small black specs that came out when rinsed well. What I did was boiled some water, poured it into the rads, plugged the holes and waited 10 minutes for it to sit and loosen. Then I drained a little out, plugged the holes again and shook really good. Repeated about 5 times and they were fine with no trace. Last rinse was with distilled water.

NOTE: I used HOT stove gloves to handle due to heat from the boiling water.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> my silver k8ill coil looked same covered with some yellowish sediment when I used it with XSPC kit (Dual Bay res 750LPH) and xspc clear tubing which in fact looked exactly same crappy as yours does. *water was clean, but it had a distinct smell to it*, can't say what it was, but I as well flushed all components with vinegar and distilled water and cleaned the kill coil with a brush.
> just an idea ... if you are using a Dual Bay res with 750 X2O pump as I did in past ... *do you see a yellowish water line in it*? I think those pumps are not sealed well and corrode over time and that yellowish sediment start circulating in the loop staining the tubing to the greenish-yellowish clouded tint and making the silver kill coil look like it does. I am not sure, but maybe X20 750 pump contains some aluminum parts making contact with water, perhaps that's what causes the galvanic corrosion over time? not sure.
> I still use the same silver kill coil and plain distilled water now with Feser Tubing and a D5 Strong pump, so the only components that are same (when compared to original XSPC kit) are radiators and block, and zero problems. just a though. besides XSPC tubing clouds over time on its own, just saying what *might* have happened to the coil.


The main problems that people seem to complain about in those bay reservoirs is the appearance of dead spots which leads to stagnant water(yes even with D5 x 2 it can happen) where the water does not circulate properly-that may be responsible for what you are describing. (De-aeration/bleeding is also a problem but thats another matter completely)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PepeLapiu*
> 
> Okay, so no way I am going to read the whole thread.
> But is there a consensus on at least one good brand of tubing
> Are there any tubing known not to leach out plasticizer?












Quote:


> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> Strange how it is hit or miss. My buddy had black specks come out of his AX480, but I had nothing in my EX360 and RX240.


Thats more than likely radiator flux (debris left behind within the radiator after the manufacturing process)-the quote below is an excellent way to deal with that problem, or you can go OTT, and use the filter setup in Systemlord's photo and flush the rads out that way-but imho thats severe overkill-still does a great job nevertheless, in fact the best job







.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTekJeff*
> 
> I have with the SR-1 models. They did have some debris, but not a lot. Mostly small black specs that came out when rinsed well. What I did was boiled some water, poured it into the rads, plugged the holes and waited 10 minutes for it to sit and loosen. Then I drained a little out, plugged the holes again and shook really good. Repeated about 5 times and they were fine with no trace. Last rinse was with distilled water.
> NOTE: I used HOT stove gloves to handle due to heat from the boiling water.


Good man-way to go.
That way you avoid problems afterwards.
*Little tip to those flushing rads* (btw this rad issue is way off topic so im not addressing it again







)

Get a glass bowl and empty out the rad that you are cleaning/flushing into it, then hold the bowl up against a dark/light or similar background and you will be able to clearly see if there is any residue left, many times minute particles are not easily visible .


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> The main problems that people seem to complain about in those bay reservoirs is the appearance of dead spots which leads to stagnant water(yes even with D5 x 2 it can happen) where the water does not circulate properly-that may be responsible for what you are describing. (De-aeration/bleeding is also a problem but thats another matter completely)


possibly the water line was just that, a dead spot, because it was in such area that looked like no water movement ever. adding that to some radiator residue (not flushed initially) and probably that explains it all


----------



## ceteris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Has anyone flushed a Hardware Labs radiator before and if so was there any debris?


My GTX 560s had a ton of debris in them. I recommend giving a generous amount of time in flushing your rads. Still had some debris after draining my system to redo the loop.


----------



## sticks435

Strange, I flushed my UT60 for like an hour with boiling hot water over and over and never had anything come out. I haven't broken down my loop since I first installed it, so we'll see if anything broke loose during use the last 4 or 5 months.


----------



## wermad

Didn't have anything come out of my Monsta 360s. I have a new one incoming, and I'll let you guys know if that has debris inside or not.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTekJeff*
> 
> I have with the SR-1 models. They did have some debris, but not a lot. Mostly small black specs that came out when rinsed well. What I did was boiled some water, poured it into the rads, plugged the holes and waited 10 minutes for it to sit and loosen. Then I drained a little out, plugged the holes again and shook really good. Repeated about 5 times and they were fine with no trace. Last rinse was with distilled water.
> NOTE: I used HOT stove gloves to handle due to heat from the boiling water.


Did you ever use vinegar + hot distilled or just very hot distilled?


----------



## theChisel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PepeLapiu*
> 
> Okay, so no way I am going to read the whole thread.
> But is there a consensus on at least one good brand of tubing?
> Are there any tubing known not to leach out plasticizer?


Speaking of consensus, what are the general thoughts on using ether-based polyurethane tubing? I've been in contact with FreelinWade about having a 100ft. batch of their Fre-thane tubing made in 7/16 X 5/8. They can produce it in many colors and even provided some nice samples to prove it. The only issue, however is the price at $4.25 per foot. It's pricey, but not compared to some of the other components we're all throwing in our rigs.


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PepeLapiu*
> 
> Okay, so no way I am going to read the whole thread.
> But is there a consensus on at least one good brand of tubing?
> Are there any tubing known not to leach out plasticizer?


For this, I refer you to a post I made earlier to someone else who felt they should be able to get somebody to provide a succinct answer.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> Because the opinions are almost as varied as the brands of tubing available. What one person swears by, another ridicules. There is also a reluctance to, yet once again, attempt to sum up this thread for someone who has not been following it. I could tell you what I am using, however, it would just be recreating what has been said many times already, and others will have to do the same to support their viewpoint.
> I suggest you do a search of this thread using different brand names, such as duralene, advanced, feser etc and read the information presented and make up your own mind.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ceteris*
> 
> My GTX 560s had a ton of debris in them. I recommend giving a generous amount of time in flushing your rads. Still had some debris after draining my system to redo the loop.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sticks435*
> 
> Strange, I flushed my UT60 for like an hour with boiling hot water over and over and never had anything come out. I haven't broken down my loop since I first installed it, so we'll see if anything broke loose during use the last 4 or 5 months.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Didn't have anything come out of my Monsta 360s. I have a new one incoming, and I'll let you guys know if that has debris inside or not.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Did you ever use vinegar + hot distilled or just very hot distilled?












There is a specific thread for this issue, cmon guys just keep here for plasticizer issues, lets not turn into the mess that occurs on other threads.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *theChisel*
> 
> Speaking of consensus, what are the general thoughts on using ether-based polyurethane tubing? I've been in contact with FreelinWade about having a 100ft. batch of their Fre-thane tubing made in 7/16 X 5/8. They can produce it in many colors and even provided some nice samples to prove it. The only issue, however is the price at $4.25 per foot. It's pricey, but not compared to some of the other components we're all throwing in our rigs.


Quote "

"There are two general classes of polyurethane and both are commonly found in the market: ether-base and ester-base. Chemically, these are made from two different polyol alcohols that cause similar, but different reactions in the isocyanate. From the user's standpoint, the ester-based polymer is less expensive however it degrades when exposed to moisture."

"Ester-based polyurethane offers slightly better fuel and oil resistance; however, water attacks it and significantly reduces its physical properties. Ether-based polyurethane exhibits far superior hydrolytic stability, especially when being used in humid environments. Ether-based tubing will also resist fungus growth much better than the ester-based."

Manufacturer claims:

"Freelin-Wade's Fre-Thane has a high resistance to abrasion while being highly flexible and kink resistant. Its most notable quality though is its "memory." Fre-Thane will stretch and flex but always return to its original shape."

Imo :

1) you would be correct is saying that the price wouldn't be much of an issue.

2) What manufacturers claim and what is the truth has often shown to be poles apart-the only way to find out would be by actually using that sort of tubing under various controlled and monitored variables, or simply put, seeing what feedback it gets after extended use in many loops-that necessitates, a large amount of people using the tubing and reporting their findings.

3) The fact that the tubing has a 'memory' may also cause problems, in that tubing works better if it is able to be 'trained' ie made to keep the shape it is moulded to-memory type tubing will always be trying to revert to its original shape and that imo will always cause undue strain on fittings, water blocks etc.

3)But as Ghandi said, 'many difficult journey's begin with the smallest footstep' so why don't you try it out and share your findings with the thread, im sure that your efforts would be appreciated


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a specefic thread for this issue, cmon guys just keep here for plasticizer issues.


Debris will start to stir up plasticizer on the tube. I think its relavent and not off topic


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a specific thread for this issue, cmon guys just keep here for plasticizer issues, lets not turn into the mess that occurs on other threads.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote "
> "There are two general classes of polyurethane and both are commonly found in the market: ether-base and ester-base. Chemically, these are made from two different polyol alcohols that cause similar, but different reactions in the isocyanate. From the user's standpoint, the ester-based polymer is less expensive however it degrades when exposed to moisture."
> "Ester-based polyurethane offers slightly better fuel and oil resistance; however, water attacks it and significantly reduces its physical properties. Ether-based polyurethane exhibits far superior hydrolytic stability, especially when being used in humid environments. Ether-based tubing will also resist fungus growth much better than the ester-based."
> Manufacturer claims:
> "Freelin-Wade's Fre-Thane has a high resistance to abrasion while being highly flexible and kink resistant. Its most notable quality though is its "memory." Fre-Thane will stretch and flex but always return to its original shape."
> Imo :
> 1) you would be correct is saying that the price wouldn't be much of an issue.
> 2) What manufacturers claim and what is the truth has often shown to be poles apart-the only way to find out would be by actually using that sort of tubing under various controlled and monitored variables, or simply put, seeing what feedback it gets after extended use in many loops-that necessitates, a large amount of people using the tubing and reporting their findings.
> 3) The fact that the tubing has a 'memory' may also cause problems, in that tubing works better if it is able to be 'trained' ie made to keep the shape it is moulded to-memory type tubing will always be trying to revert to its original shape and that imo will always cause undue strain on fittings, water blocks etc.
> 3)But as Ghandi said, 'many difficult journey's begin with the smallest footstep' so why don't you try it out and share your findings with the thread, im sure that your efforts would be appreciated


So you decide to pm and argue my post where it has nothing to do with your argument. Why not help the thread and stop individual attacks without taking a moment to read and maybe consider ppls opinions. Jeeze


----------



## theChisel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> ...3)But as Ghandi said, 'many difficult journey's begin with the smallest footstep' so why don't you try it out and share your findings with the thread, im sure that your efforts would be appreciated


I fully intend to









My interest in FreelinWade is strictly due to the fact that they offer their PU tubing in such a wide color spectrum. That being said, my current hurdle, holidays aside, is trying to negotiate a smaller minimum order. If they can't, the clear PU tubing from McMaster Carr is the next step.


----------



## DiGiCiDAL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Debris will start to stir up plasticizer on the tube. I think its relavent and not off topic


I agree, and although I definitely also agree that discussing rad flushing and debris may be slightly off topic - a secondary purpose of this thread is dispelling 'false positives' which obfuscate the plasticizer leeching problem. Just like discussing dye staining and microbial growth could be considered off topic, yet may be causal factors in people claiming leeching/clouding when in fact the problem is something else entirely.

I guess the summary on that would simply be that unless your system is completely and thoroughly cleaned/flushed and without other oddities - the tubing itself may only be part of the problem.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiGiCiDAL*
> 
> I agree, and although I definitely also agree that discussing rad flushing and debris may be slightly off topic - a secondary purpose of this thread is dispelling 'false positives' which obfuscate the plasticizer leeching problem. Just like discussing dye staining and microbial growth could be considered off topic, yet may be causal factors in people claiming leeching/clouding when in fact the problem is something else entirely.
> I guess the summary on that would simply be that unless your system is completely and thoroughly cleaned/flushed and without other oddities - the tubing itself may only be part of the problem.


Point taken, and yes whilst that may be true, plasticizer leeching is not down to debris from other parts from within the loop-i base my opinion (and thats all it is) on this:

http://www.materialsviews.com/barrier-coating-reduces-plasticizer-leaching-from-pvc/

This is a very new article(6/12/2012), and so its authenticity is up for debate.

I paid specific attention to this part: " The plasticizers often have, however, a tendency to migrate from the bulk of the PVC material to its surface and into the environment."

I cannot see debris influencing that migration/leeching process, since the migration occurs from within the tube outwards, and debris comes into contact with the outer layers of the tubing. (this does not apply to the minority of tubing that has some sort of 'special' inner coating)

If one was to say that it removes the inner layer of some tubing, thusly allowing PVC (plasticizer) into the loop-i would accept that, but most tubing does not have that inner protective layer-the specialized ones that actually state that they have such a layer are few in comparison to the ones we generally use-ergo the leeching/plasticizer problem exists already without the influence of debris.

But the deal clincher for me is that, this inner coating innovation/invention is very new technology so i highly doubt its existence within tubing that we have been referring to in this thread









-thats my train of thought anyway.









But your general message has weight and i agree with it


----------



## DiGiCiDAL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> I cannot see debris influencing that migration/leeching process, since the migration occurs from within the tube outwards, and debris comes into contact with the outer layers of the tubing.


I think I should have been a little more clear on the off chance someone reads that post out of context without reading the entire thread... although that wouldn't happen would it?









I _meant_ to say that although I don't think anything other than fluid temperature and plasticizer content levels in the tubing are likely to cause genuine leeching - that there is a distinct possibility for someone with a buildup of organics, dye solids, flux/sediment, etc... to believe they are experiencing plasticizer leeching when it is merely the aforementioned problems and not their tubing (or at least it's merely a secondary problem).

I wholeheartedly agree that these other factors are unlikely to create or accelerate leeching if present.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiGiCiDAL*
> 
> I think I should have been a little more clear on the off chance someone reads that post out of context without reading the entire thread... although that wouldn't happen would it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I _meant_ to say that although I don't think anything other than fluid temperature and plasticizer content levels in the tubing are likely to cause genuine leeching - that there is a distinct possibility for someone with a buildup of organics, dye solids, flux/sediment, etc... to believe they are experiencing plasticizer leeching when it is merely the aforementioned problems and not their tubing (or at least it's merely a secondary problem).
> I wholeheartedly agree that these other factors are unlikely to create or accelerate leeching if present.


LOL! Touche vis a vis taking the post out of context-i think that we all have been subject to doing that at times


----------



## paradoxum

I've saw that a few US sites have the new bloodshed red advanced primochill tubing in stock now, does anyone know if any EU/UK sites have it yet? the shipping cost from frozencpu is double the price of the actual tubing









Also has anyone used that flushing fluid they include in the retail box? is it worth running it through my loop as a flush, it won't corrode nickel/acetal will it?


----------



## kcuestag

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paradoxum*
> 
> I've saw that a few US sites have the new bloodshed red advanced primochill tubing in stock now, does anyone know if any EU/UK sites have it yet? the shipping cost from frozencpu is double the price of the actual tubing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also has anyone used that flushing fluid they include in the retail box? is it worth running it through my loop as a flush, it won't corrode nickel/acetal will it?


Sadly us Europeans are still far from getting that or Duralene tubing which seems like both are best PLasticizer free tubing.

I can't wait for either to get on stock, so that I can buy some clear tubing and use some Mayhems Dye.


----------



## pauly94

does anyone know how Feser one performs? there is nothing else available here in europe besides primochill pro and masterkleer.


----------



## kkorky

*MERRY XMAS EVERYONE TO YOU AND YOUR LOVED ONES*









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pauly94*
> 
> does anyone know how Feser one performs? there is nothing else available here in europe besides primochill pro and masterkleer.


Feser is great, ill be posting pics of 6 month old tubing in a few days-im currently working on another rig for my wife and the the tubing previously used was Feser Clear UV-sure it stains as all tubing does I used Mayhems red dye(red/pink are the worst culprits when it comes to staining tubing), so it stained badly, but no plasticizer at all.

That does not mean that it is the Holy grail, please remember that, your rig will have different variables to mine









That having been said, a couple of other people have also posted positive feedback in this thread with regards to Feser.

Im going to run Masteekleer with Mayhems UV pastel white in her rig-i was hoping to have been able to use the new Promochill Advanced, some was sent to me just over a month ago or thereabouts, and i still have not received it


----------



## pauly94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> *MERRY XMAS EVERYONE TO YOU AND YOUR LOVED ONES*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feser is great, ill be posting pics of 6 month old tubing in a few days-im currently working on another rig for my wife and the the tubing previously used was Feser Clear UV-sure it stains as all tubing does I used Mayhems red dye(red/pink are the worst culprits when it comes to staining tubing), so it stained badly, but no plasticizer at all.
> That does not mean that it is the Holy grail, please remember that, your rig will have different variables to mine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That having been said, a couple of other people have also posted positive feedback in this thread with regards to Feser.
> Im going to run Masteekleer with Mayhems UV pastel white in her rig-i was hoping to have been able to use the new Promochill Advanced, some was sent to me just over a month ago or thereabouts, and i still have not received it


OK thanks. well i already ordered primochill pro a couple of days ago and today I came across this thread. Guess I will have to use these until the advanced lrt become available here.

Does this plasticising actually damage the blocks,radiators and fittings? If not, im fine with a bit of white on the inside.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pauly94*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> *MERRY XMAS EVERYONE TO YOU AND YOUR LOVED ONES*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feser is great, ill be posting pics of 6 month old tubing in a few days-im currently working on another rig for my wife and the the tubing previously used was Feser Clear UV-sure it stains as all tubing does I used Mayhems red dye(red/pink are the worst culprits when it comes to staining tubing), so it stained badly, but no plasticizer at all.
> That does not mean that it is the Holy grail, please remember that, your rig will have different variables to mine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That having been said, a couple of other people have also posted positive feedback in this thread with regards to Feser.
> Im going to run Masteekleer with Mayhems UV pastel white in her rig-i was hoping to have been able to use the new Promochill Advanced, some was sent to me just over a month ago or thereabouts, and i still have not received it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK thanks. well i already ordered primochill pro a couple of days ago and today I came across this thread. Guess I will have to use these until the advanced lrt become available here.
> 
> Does this plasticising actually damage the blocks,radiators and fittings? If not, im fine with a bit of white on the inside.
Click to expand...

Depends on the severity of the leeching. For a short time it shouldn't matter. Though we have seen instances where the blocks have been affected with what looks to be dye residues filling the cooling vanes inside them. It's more likely plasticizer that took on the tint of the dyes. Soon as you can you should replace it. I ran mine of 6 months so it wasn't too bad for me. System is down while I am away on walkabout. Soon as I get back I will see about replacing my tubing.









~Ceadder


----------



## dqrp6435

yeah so ive sat here and read about 40 pages of people trying to figure stuff out, i give up lwhen i first built my loop a couple months ago i was going to run with primochill lrt... but i was told by a buddy of mine, who was testing the prototype of the advanced tubing to wait... so i did and went with some durelene from sidewinder (local place)....
its nice when its new, but never again unless i need tubing BAD. its the cheapest out there.... so far for 20' ive paid right at $10. (compared to paying $20-25 for 10' of primochill". a LOT of people said this was better than primochill... lol
mine clouded within about a week to two weeks...
-however, i just tested a piece from a month ago, and no plasticizing from what i can tell... just bad clouding...

because i failed to read the last 200 some odd pages, has anyone came up with anything worth using??

btw, helpful info about me, using 3/8x1/2 with mayhems pastel blue/distilled mix...


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dqrp6435*
> 
> because i failed to read the last 200 some odd pages, has anyone came up with anything worth using??
> btw, helpful info about me, using 3/8x1/2 with mayhems pastel blue/distilled mix...


I suggest you search the thread using brand names and read the various results to enable you to form your own opinion.

I just broke down my loop after using Durelene for over four months. A little clouding that was not evident while the loop was in operation, only when it was drained. I am using distilled and Zalman G100.


----------



## shremi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dqrp6435*
> 
> yeah so ive sat here and read about 40 pages of people trying to figure stuff out, i give up lwhen i first built my loop a couple months ago i was going to run with primochill lrt... but i was told by a buddy of mine, who was testing the prototype of the advanced tubing to wait... so i did and went with some durelene from sidewinder (local place)....
> its nice when its new, but never again unless i need tubing BAD. its the cheapest out there.... so far for 20' ive paid right at $10. (compared to paying $20-25 for 10' of primochill". a LOT of people said this was better than primochill... lol
> mine clouded within about a week to two weeks...
> -however, i just tested a piece from a month ago, and no plasticizing from what i can tell... just bad clouding...
> because i failed to read the last 200 some odd pages, has anyone came up with anything worth using??
> btw, helpful info about me, using 3/8x1/2 with mayhems pastel blue/distilled mix...


There is not a definitive product yet but from what I have read and I have been following this thread since the beginning I would say Durelene , the new advanced from primo and feser thos are the 3 top contenders right now IMO


----------



## paradoxum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pauly94*
> 
> OK thanks. well i already ordered primochill pro a couple of days ago and today I came across this thread. Guess I will have to use these until the advanced lrt become available here.
> Does this plasticising actually damage the blocks,radiators and fittings? If not, im fine with a bit of white on the inside.


The platicizer built up in my CPU block and caused very bad flow rate, it went un-noticed by myself and one morning I woke up and the tubing around the CPU block had almost melted due to the heat, and thusly they became loose from their compression fittings, leaking water allover my GPU and case. All I got from primochill was a "sorry" and 6 foot of their new tubing, barely enough to cover my new loop. Oh, and I had to pay for the shipping on it too.


----------



## OsiViper

Well, just decided to replace all of the PrimoFlex Pro Red tubing in my case with the New PrimoFlex Advanced Crystal Clear + Mayhem Red Dye.
I am curious to see how it does considering the Pro red tubing started showing plasticizer after less than 1 week of use.

Here is the start pic, ignore the paper towels. Still in leak test. but just wanted a shot of the tubes clear before anything could fog it up.


Will add pics when i get updates.

Moved from separate thread

Well its been 3 days now and its starting to show a little bit of cloudiness already which isn't looking good so far. Will post updated pics in a few days.


----------



## kcuestag

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OsiViper*
> 
> Well its been 3 days now and its starting to show a little bit of cloudiness already which isn't looking good so far. Will post updated pics in a few days.


Well that sucks, I want some clear tubing to use Mayhems Deep Red dye and I'm not sure which brand of tubing to buy, as all seem to have plasticizer sooner or later.


----------



## wermad

Mine is holding awesome!!!! Obviously its thick tube (10mmx16mm) so its not super duper clear but no hazing so far


----------



## kcuestag

I don't know what to do, I really don't want to buy some clear tubing that will have plasticizer in short amount of time... I wish I could buy Durelene or Primochill Advanced LRT here in Europe.


----------



## ceteris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kcuestag*
> 
> I don't know what to do, I really don't want to buy some clear tubing that will have plasticizer in short amount of time... I wish I could buy Durelene or Primochill Advanced LRT here in Europe.


Its just a matter of time til Primochill Advanced makes it way to Europe.... But how come you cannot order Durelene from the US? I thought Sidewinder Computers ships internationally. Just buy alot of it like I did so you don't have to order again for awhile.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kcuestag*
> 
> I don't know what to do, I really don't want to buy some clear tubing that will have plasticizer in short amount of time... I wish I could buy Durelene or Primochill Advanced LRT here in Europe.


Have you tried to contact Performance-PCs'? I know that they have it. In colors even.









~Ceadder


----------



## kcuestag

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ceteris*
> 
> Its just a matter of time til Primochill Advanced makes it way to Europe.... But how come you cannot order Durelene from the US? I thought Sidewinder Computers ships internationally. Just buy alot of it like I did so you don't have to order again for awhile.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Have you tried to contact Performance-PCs'? I know that they have it. In colors even.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Reason I don't want to buy it from the US is because they're charging me twice of what the actual tubing costs.









If I were to do that, Durelene or Advanced LRT from Primochill?


----------



## ceteris

Hold out for more info on Primochill's Primoflex Advanced LRT then and see how it turns out with the others trying it out.

As far as costs, are you talking about Total Cost after Shipping (and VAT) or did the sites raise the price on the tubing because you are on Europe?


----------



## kcuestag

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ceteris*
> 
> Hold out for more info on Primochill's Primoflex Advanced LRT then and see how it turns out with the others trying it out.
> As far as costs, are you talking about Total Cost after Shipping (and VAT) or did the sites raise the price on the tubing because you are on Europe?


15ft of Durelene would cost me $13.35 plus $48.50 shipping to Spain via Priority International Mail.

What I think I'll do is wait for stores to sell it in Europe, I've contacted a WC store in Spain which says they'll be in touch with Primochill to see if they can provide me the PrimoFlex Adv. LRT tubing, so meanwhile I'll just buy some Masterkleer PVC clear tubing until they sell the Adv. LRT tubing, I don't see my self paying close to $50 to ship tubing worth $13.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kcuestag*
> 
> 15ft of Durelene would cost me $13.35 plus $48.50 shipping to Spain via Priority International Mail.
> What I think I'll do is wait for stores to sell it in Europe, I've contacted a WC store in Spain which says they'll be in touch with Primochill to see if they can provide me the PrimoFlex Adv. LRT tubing, so meanwhile I'll just buy some Masterkleer PVC clear tubing until they sell the Adv. LRT tubing, I don't see my self paying close to $50 to ship tubing worth $13.


Here's hoping the native shop will get some


----------



## kcuestag

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Here's hoping the native shop will get some


Me too, I'll just try out Masterkleer PVC clear tubing in the mean time.









Should be OK for at least a month or two, I mean within a month there should be Adv. LRT in Europeans stores already, hopefully.


----------



## feniks

Last night was draining my loop to add another GPU and had a chance to look into my 3 months old Feser Blue UV Active. I'm simply amazed, no sign of anything! no whitish residue, no clouding, no anything, it simply looks like new.
I cut out one piece of tubing (needed to shorten it) and looking at it after 24 hours it looks same as new pieces I still have.









Received also the UV Blue Primochill Advanced LRT, but I will keep it as spare for now. Feser is doing all righty here!


----------



## kkorky

Ok, so here is a photo of what i plan to be testing over the next few months, and a photo of the Feser that i had been testing in a rig:



Top left : (L->R) is Clearflex 60 clear tubing, next to it is Masteecleer clear tubing which is being used as we speak with Mayhem's UV white pastel (im nearly finished with my wifes rig so photos will be posted then-ive been using the Masteecleer for 3 days)

Top right: 17ft of Primochill Advanced-i just got it today, *my personal thanks to Primochill for replacing the LRT tubing i had been using before, and for posting the replacement out here to me in Europe-kudos







* .

Bottom left: 6 month+ used Feser UV Clear tubing-i had been running Mayhem's red dye, WFI water (water for injections-its purer than Distilled water, and NOT to be confused with saline solution), 2 drops of Mayhem's extreme (biocide)and a SKC.

There is obvious heavy staining(Red and Pink dyes are the worst for staining), but no heavy 'cream cheese' deposits. I run my rigs 24/7 (i am not exaggerating







), and the average temp is between 27-30 celcius (this goes up to 42c max whilst gaming and under load etc).

One final note: the Feser tubing that i had been using was stiffer than the average tubing i had used in the past ie:the Primochill LRT, and now after 6 months it is even stiffer.

The more PVC in tubing the more pliable it is, and it is PVC leeching which is the 'cream cheese' plasticizer build up that we encounter.

Again please refer to this link for more info-you can also read the whole of the recently released study if you have a look on the page ive linked, but it will cost you-it makes things much clearer









http://www.materialsviews.com/barrier-coating-reduces-plasticizer-leaching-from-pvc/

So im taking an educated guess that the new Primochill Advanced tubing has less PVC in it because it is stiffer than the LRT, but i am not 100% sure so *DONT* quote me on that (Primochill feedback would be helpfull here







)

I will post photos of used tubing as and when it is available-i plan on running the Primochill in another rig i have running atm.

Hope this has helped a bit.


----------



## kcuestag

I am so jealous that you were able to get the Advanced LRT shipped to Europe, how did you do it? I'd love to get some as well.


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kcuestag*
> 
> I am so jealous that you were able to get the Advanced LRT shipped to Europe, how did you do it? I'd love to get some as well.


Has anybody contacted the guys at Specialtech? They are very helpful and am sure would be interested to bring new stuff









As an alternative would be aquatuning, but i have no idea how much PC LRT PRO they have already in stock









*EDIT*:
I just sent Specialtech an email about this...


----------



## Systemlord

My educated guess is that the stiffer Advanced LRT tubing from Primochill adds against (strength) staining and cream cheese.


----------



## kcuestag

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> Has anybody contacted the guys at Specialtech? They are very helpful and am sure would be interested to bring new stuff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As an alternative would be aquatuning, but i have no idea how much PC LRT PRO they have already in stock
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EDIT*:
> I just sent Specialtech an email about this...


Let me know how it goes, we really need the new PrimoFlex Advanced LRT to hit stores in Europe!!


----------



## blkdoutgsxr

Is this the problem with plasticizer? Just got to pulling my tubing off and saw that its all yellow inside... Curious because I bought some black Primochill and don't want to use it if this is the issue people are complaining about









Thanks in advance,
Thomas


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blkdoutgsxr*
> 
> 
> Is this the problem with plasticizer? Just got to pulling my tubing off and saw that its all yellow inside... Curious because I bought some black Primochill and don't want to use it if this is the issue people are complaining about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Thomas


Welcome to the club









Contact Primochill if they can send you some Advance


----------



## blkdoutgsxr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Welcome to the club
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contact Primochill if they can send you some Advance


Have they been replacing tubing for people who can provide a receipt? Just curious if I should wait back for a response from them or get some on order so I can put my rig together. Also from what I'm reading it was just their PRO line? Their Advanced LRT is good to go right?


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blkdoutgsxr*
> 
> Have they been replacing tubing for people who can provide a receipt? Just curious if I should wait back for a response from them or get some on order so I can put my rig together. Also from what I'm reading it was just their PRO line? Their Advanced LRT is good to go right?


You need to have a receipt, ie proof of purchase,photographs to prove that you have indeed encountered plasticizer problems and any relevant helpful information that may give Primochill a more complete picture.

(BTW, imo the white tubing you show in the photo does not look like plasticizer to me-also you didnt mention how long you have been running it, and what you have been running through it etc)

You also didn't clarify if the white tubing in the photo is Primochill, secondly, the black Primochill that you have, hasn't been used, if i understood you correctly.

If the Black tubing hasnt been used, id wager that you would have a hard time returning it, but don't take my word for it-go here:

http://www.primochill.com/

Register, then send a ticket with the information i suggested you provide, to Jennifer, and she will help you out.

Yes the PRO LRT seemed to be the one that caused the most problems-no, i cannot (nor should anyone else for that matter) say that the new Advanced Primochill is good to go-its too new a product and has not been run long enough, nor by enough people to give proper feedback-many people are just being overenthusiastic on the hearsay of a few users who themselves have not been running the tubing for a credible time period.

That is not to say that the new Advanced wont do the job (im hoping that it will)-time will tell.....................


----------



## blkdoutgsxr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> You need to have a receipt, ie proof of purchase,photographs to prove that you have indeed encountered plasticizer problems and any relevant helpful information that may give Primochill a more complete picture.
> (BTW, imo the white tubing you show in the photo does not look like plasticizer to me-also you didnt mention how long you have been running it, and what you have been running through it etc)
> You didn't clarify if the white tubing in the photo is Primochill, secondly, the black Primochill that you have, hasn't been used, if i understood you correctly.
> If the Black tubing hasnt been used, id wager that you would have a hard time returning it, but don't take my word for it-go here:
> http://www.primochill.com/
> Register, then send a ticket with the information i suggested you provide, to Jennifer, and she will help you out.
> Yes the PRO LRT seemed to be the one that caused the most problems-no, i cannot (nor should anyone else for that matter) say that the new Advanced Primochill is good to go-its too new a product and has not been run long enough, nor by enough people to give proper feedback-many people are just being overenthusiastic on the hearsay of a few users who themselves have not been running the tubing for a credible time period.
> That is not to say that the new Advanced wont do the job-time will tell.....................


The white tubing I was using was the Primochill Pro line, used for about 9mths. I ran distilled water with a kill coil. I was not looking to return the Black Advanced LRT that I purchased, but wanted to clarify that it was not the tubing that was experiencing problems. I filed a ticket with primochill and am waiting a response, if there is nothing they can do then I will buy some other tubing that is not prone to this problem. I can't really put my finger on what the stuff is on the tubing, I rinsed all components thoroughly before installing and just stumbled upon this thread because of other reviews on tubing. I couldn't find a picture of white tubing affected so I thought I would post it to see what everyone on here thought. The other colors are obvious when they are affected, white seems less obvious, to be anyways. Thanks for the input though!


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blkdoutgsxr*
> 
> The white tubing I was using was the Primochill Pro line, used for about 9mths. I ran distilled water with a kill coil. I was not looking to return the Black Advanced LRT that I purchased, but wanted to clarify that it was not the tubing that was experiencing problems. I filed a ticket with primochill and am waiting a response, if there is nothing they can do then I will buy some other tubing that is not prone to this problem. I can't really put my finger on what the stuff is on the tubing, I rinsed all components thoroughly before installing and just stumbled upon this thread because of other reviews on tubing. I couldn't find a picture of white tubing affected so I thought I would post it to see what everyone on here thought. The other colors are obvious when they are affected, white seems less obvious, to be anyways. Thanks for the input though!


You're welcome


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kcuestag*
> 
> Let me know how it goes, we really need the new PrimoFlex Advanced LRT to hit stores in Europe!!


Of course i will let you all know... still its holidays season with lots of orders i suppose and i am not sure how quick i will get a reply though...


----------



## kkorky

If you look a few pages back-you will find all the information with regards to Specialtech and Durelene and Primochill Advanced


----------



## HGooper

This's PrimoFlex Pro LRT White Tubing and I've already been using it for nearly 1 year, few days ago I decided to do annual clean up for my wc system, then saw lot of white powdery inside the wc system. Is my WC system suffered from plasticizer problem?


----------



## Systemlord

I want to here from those members that have been using the new clear advanced LRT tubing, I don't expect anything but good things to say!


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HGooper*
> 
> 
> This's PrimoFlex Pro LRT White Tubing and I've already been using it for nearly 1 year, few days ago I decided to do annual clean up for my wc system, then saw lot of white powdery inside the wc system. Is my WC system suffered from plasticizer problem?


More than likely , yes.

Dont worry, it can be removed easily, or better yet just get new tubing

PS: personally speaking, id have a look at my loop at least every 6 months, once a year is a bit too much, and exposes you to the possibility of having more problems to deal with, should you have any


----------



## HGooper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> More than likely , yes.
> Dont worry, it can be removed easily, or better yet just get new tubing
> PS: personally speaking, id have a look at my loop at least every 6 months, once a year is a bit too much, and exposes you to the possibility of having more problems to deal with, should you have any


I read a few threads back and apparently PrimoFlex will replace PrimoFlex Advanced to any PrimoFlex Pro buyer that suffers from this problem, am I right?

Even they're willing to replace it for me, I can't wait that long as I need some tubes to run my wc system. I don't have any other tubing, can you recommend cheap and good tubing for temporary use?


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HGooper*
> 
> I read a few threads back and apparently PrimoFlex will replace PrimoFlex Advanced to any PrimoFlex Pro buyer that suffers from this problem, am I right?
> Even they're willing to replace it for me, I can't wait that long as I need some tubes to run my wc system. I don't have any other tubing, can you recommend cheap and good tubing for temporary use?


Well if you read a few posts back-specifically one that i recently posted, that seems to be the case, but you must have receipts to prove that you bought the Primochill LRT, in order to request that they replace it with Primochill advanced.

I would also advise you to send photos, that will strengthen your case for replacement tubing-speak to Jennifer.

To answer your last query, i would usually say look back in the thread since this question has been asked to death, but seeing as its a new year, ill do a one off and answer









If you are in the States, id suggest that you order some Durelene or Feser,.

Durelene is one of the best performing so far & cheap, order it here:http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/othertubing.html

In fact id stay wih Durelene untill the new Primochill has been in use for some time and a reasonable amount of feedback on its performance has been posted-its too early to come to a suitable conclusion at the moment.

If you are in Europe, id try either Feser, clearflex 60 or Masterkleer -Clearflex/Masterkleer may be bought at :http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Tubing-cid-1193.html

Feser which has been performing well at :http://www.eworld.com.gr/eworld/products/index/167/0/%CE%A3%CF%89%CE%BB%CE%AE%CE%BD%CE%B5%CF%82

This is a greek site, i havent been able to find it sold in many other places in the EU-just use google translate to understand the info on the pages









Hope this has helped, cause i know for sure that ive saved you alot of searching


----------



## HGooper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Well if you read a few posts back-specifically one that i recently posted, that seems to be the case, but you must have receipts to prove that you bought the Primochill LRT, in order to request that they replace it with Primochill advanced.
> I would also advise you to send photos, that will strengthen your case for replacement tubing-speak to Jennifer.
> To answer your last query, i would usually say look back in the thread since this question has been asked to death, but seeing as its a new year, ill do a one off and answer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are in the States, id suggest that you order some Durelene or Feser,.
> Durelene is one of the best performing so far & cheap, order it here:http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/othertubing.html
> In fact id stay wih Durelene untill the new Primochill has been in use for some time and a reasonable amount of feedback on its performance has been posted-its too early to come to a suitable conclusion at the moment.
> If you are in Europe, id try either Feser, clearflex 60 or Masterkleer -Clearflex/Masterkleer may be bought at :http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Tubing-cid-1193.html
> Feser which has been performing well at :http://www.eworld.com.gr/eworld/products/index/167/0/%CE%A3%CF%89%CE%BB%CE%AE%CE%BD%CE%B5%CF%82
> This is a greek site, i havent been able to find it sold in many other places in the EU-just use google translate to understand the info on the pages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this has helped, cause i know for sure that ive saved you alot of searching


Thanks a lot bro, really safe me a lot of time of searching.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HGooper*
> 
> Thanks a lot bro, really safe me a lot of time of searching.


You're welcome


----------



## kcuestag

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HGooper*
> 
> Thanks a lot bro, really safe me a lot of time of searching.


Go for Durelene, it's cheap and so far it's proven to be the best tubing plasticizer free.


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> Has anybody contacted the guys at Specialtech? They are very helpful and am sure would be interested to bring new stuff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As an alternative would be aquatuning, but i have no idea how much PC LRT PRO they have already in stock
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EDIT*:
> I just sent Specialtech an email about this...


No answer from Specialtech yet...

Still, aquatuning just informed me that they dont know if OR when they will bring Primochill Advanced Tube. They have no info about it yet.


----------



## kcuestag

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> No answer from Specialtech yet...
> Still, aquatuning just informed me that they dont know if OR when they will bring Primochill Advanced Tube. They have no info about it yet.


The store I asked here in Spain contacted Primochill to get the PrimoFlex Advanced LRT and Primochill literally answered them to just wait...

It seems like Primochill is in no hurry to bring this tubing to Europe.









Speaking of which, I should be recieving Masterkleer PVC Clear 19/13mm tubing with some Mayhems Red Dye sometime today.


----------



## LokSupguller

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kcuestag*
> 
> The store I asked here in Spain contacted Primochill to get the PrimoFlex Advanced LRT and Primochill literally answered them to just wait...
> It seems like Primochill is in no hurry to bring this tubing to Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of which, I should be recieving Masterkleer PVC Clear 19/13mm tubing with some Mayhems Red Dye sometime today.


So is Masterkleer tubing free of this plasticiser problem?


----------



## kcuestag

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LokSupguller*
> 
> So is Masterkleer tubing free of this plasticiser problem?


No, but it's the one that lasts longer out all the options I have (Primochill PrimoFlex Pro, Nalgene, Tygon R3603). So I am just going to use this until Primochill decides to sell some Advanced LRT in Europe.









I currently use some Masterkleer PVC Blue (Check sig rig for pics) tubing, and after 5 months of use, it's in pretty good shape, sure there's a bit of plasticizer, but it's really slight compared to other tubings.


----------



## LokSupguller

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kcuestag*
> 
> No, but it's the one that lasts longer out all the options I have (Primochill PrimoFlex Pro, Nalgene, Tygon R3603). So I am just going to use this until Primochill decides to sell some Advanced LRT in Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I currently use some Masterkleer PVC Blue (Check sig rig for pics) tubing, and after 5 months of use, it's in pretty good shape, sure there's a bit of plasticizer, but it's really slight compared to other tubings.


Ah I see.
In Australia Primoflex Advanced LRT is already being sold, so should I go for that or masterkleer?
I'm sorry if I'm bothering you haha


----------



## kcuestag

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LokSupguller*
> 
> Ah I see.
> In Australia Primoflex Advanced LRT is already being sold, so should I go for that or masterkleer?
> I'm sorry if I'm bothering you haha


Go for the Advanced LRT for sure.


----------



## LokSupguller

SWEET (;
alright thanks man


----------



## Jonation

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LokSupguller*
> 
> So is Masterkleer tubing free of this plasticiser problem?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kcuestag*
> 
> No, but it's the one that lasts longer out all the options I have (Primochill PrimoFlex Pro, Nalgene, Tygon R3603). So I am just going to use this until Primochill decides to sell some Advanced LRT in Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I currently use some Masterkleer PVC Blue (Check sig rig for pics) tubing, and after 5 months of use, it's in pretty good shape, sure there's a bit of plasticizer, but it's really slight compared to other tubings.


Masterkleer is not free of the plasticizer issue. My recent batch (2012) leeched massive amounts within weeks. See my build log


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jonation*
> 
> Masterkleer is not free of the plasticizer issue. My recent batch (2012) leeched massive amounts within weeks. See my build log


This is why I keep saying, the best cheap tubing out there is durelene it just give you a slightly haze and that's it. No bad leech like all others.


----------



## kkorky

Happy New Year to all!









I have a simple question: On what basis are people suggesting that Primochill ADV be used?

I find this highly puzzling...............


----------



## 02ssei

How long does this tubing need to be used before it will get your seal of approval?


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> How long does this tubing need to be used before it will get your seal of approval?


My seal of approval counts for *absolutely nothing*-i have asked a perfectly viable question.

The tubing has been out for only a few months, ergo it cannot have been used by that many people as yet-so logically that would mean very little feedback atm.

So id like to know what people are basing their opinions on-plain and simple.

This thread is there to ask questions,provide answers etc.

Stop trying to make this out as something else, sure i and many others have attacked faulty tubing, and rightly so

-if you took the time to look a few pages back instead of making insinuations, you would see that i also have a batch of Promochill ADV-but im not going to comment on it till i have tested it.

The 'seal of approval' as you put it, will come on its own if the tubing merits it, no matter what i or anyone else says-but i will *not* stop asking questions-if you dont ask, you wont learn.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> Mine is still showing no signs of plasticizer if you were wondering.


Great-good to hear and ty.

Now all we need is more users to start leaving their feedback as well.

You have had yours for a while so imo your feedback is acceptable, but you are one of the few right now that has had Primochill ADV that long-lets hope that your findings so far, are the standard by which this tubing operates.


----------



## 02ssei

Mine is still showing no signs of plasticizer if you were wondering.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *02ssei*
> 
> Mine is still showing no signs of plasticizer if you were wondering.


It would help if you state how long it has been in you loop and what's in your loop. A day, a week , a month?


----------



## barracks510

I think the best solution would be to buy 1000 feet of durelene and never have to worry about it again. Just my two cents. :thumb up:


----------



## 02ssei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> It would help if you state how long it has been in you loop and what's in your loop. A day, a week , a month?


5/8 x 7/16 adv LRT went in 11/10/12 with distilled and a kill coil. 11/17/12 Mayhems ice white pastel was put in the loop, and it was last drained and checked about 2 weeks ago. No signs of leeching, and there may have been a slight haze but I could not tell if it was residual from the white coolant as I did not rinse the tubing before putting the pastel back in.


----------



## kizwan

Hi guys,

My only choices are XSPC high flex & Koolance Clear UV-Reactive tubing. I can't get other brands than these two. I read in this thread XSPC high flex seems good, no plasticizer problem. However, I can't find anyone in this thread talking about Koolance tubing. There is one or two person asking about it. Does anyone have any experience with Koolance tubing, especially Koolance Clear UV-Reactive tube?


----------



## OsiViper

Well i ended up pulling my loop today and refilling because my Mayhem red turned in to grape juice.. dont know how exactly but it was a DARK purple almost black...

The tubing is starting to show some minor plasticizer buildup. Its not happening as fast as it did with the pro but still showing signs.. going to clean it, flush it and try again, give it another week.

not sure what to do about the mayhem dye though.. Dont really want grape juice cooling..


----------



## Hitokiri Battousai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OsiViper*
> 
> Well i ended up pulling my loop today and refilling because my Mayhem red turned in to grape juice.. dont know how exactly but it was a DARK purple almost black...
> The tubing is starting to show some minor plasticizer buildup. Its not happening as fast as it did with the pro but still showing signs.. going to clean it, flush it and try again, give it another week.
> not sure what to do about the mayhem dye though.. Dont really want grape juice cooling..


on the subject of the dye im not the most well versed in the subject but sounds like your PH levels may have been off from what i have seen in the mayhems thread you can ask Mick directly if you like here is a link to the thread

http://www.overclock.net/t/1286896/mayhems-users-club


----------



## OsiViper

Well i replaced the tubing with new Primochill Advanced, ran the loop for 24 hours with their Sysprep then drained and running with distilled water and biocide now and will let that run for a while and see if the dye caused tubing to look cloudy or if it was in fact plasticizer.


----------



## theChisel

Just an update as promised, I finally had some free time to install the ether-based polyurethane tubing. This is the stuff that's readily availible from Mcmaster Carr. Upon close inspection it has a sort of streaky appearance, but nevertheless it is clear. I'll be running straight distilled with copper sulfate and see how it fares.


----------



## HGooper

I've made a ticket to Primochill regarding the white powdery thing on my PrimoFlex Pro LRT White Tubing, and I got the answer here.
Quote:


> This does not look like the same issue you have read about on the internet. It seems as though this may be some sort of residue from a coolant. Try flushing your system and see if the residue returns.


Is it possible that coolant can create this kinda white powdery things or residue? And I was using distilled not coolant.

Here're the pictures of before and after cleaning up the tubing.


----------



## PepeLapiu

Well, I've heard enought problems about plastic tubing.
So I'm making the move to copper tubes.
No mixing metals either, all copper, no silver coil and no nickel plating either.
Copper tubes might be just a little harder to fit but they will last forever, not leave any residue and the push fit fittings will make it so much easier to take down my build.

There is always the issue of tarnishing copper, for that I will just paint my copper, or at least the visible parts of it.
And it will look awesome too!


----------



## PepeLapiu

Well, I've heard enought problems about plastic tubing.
So I'm making the move to copper tubes.
No mixing metals either, all copper, no silver coil and no nickel plating either.
Copper tubes might be just a little harder to fit but they will last forever, not leave any residue and the push fit fittings will make it so much easier to take down my build.

There is always the issue of tarnishing copper, for that I will just paint my copper, or at least the visible parts of it.
And it will look awesome too!


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OsiViper*
> 
> Well i replaced the tubing with new Primochill Advanced, ran the loop for 24 hours with their Sysprep then drained and running with distilled water and biocide now and will let that run for a while and see if the dye caused tubing to look cloudy or if it was in fact plasticizer.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *theChisel*
> 
> Just an update as promised, I finally had some free time to install the ether-based polyurethane tubing. This is the stuff that's readily availible from Mcmaster Carr. Upon close inspection it has a sort of streaky appearance, but nevertheless it is clear. I'll be running straight distilled with copper sulfate and see how it fares.


Thank you both, for your feedback









This is of course personal thanks from my point of view and not the thread (before anyone starts accusing me of speaking on behalf of everyone else







)

I will be keeping an eye out for further info on both fronts seeing as:

1) I too have the new Advanced which i will be using any day now, and id be interested in seeing how it performs in other rigs.

2) New types of wc tubing always interest me, you can never tell if the 'perfect' tubing is out there waiting to be discovered.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HGooper*
> 
> I've made a ticket to Primochill regarding the white powdery thing on my PrimoFlex Pro LRT White Tubing, and I got the answer here.
> Is it possible that coolant can create this kinda white powdery things or residue? And I was using distilled not coolant.
> Here're the pictures of before and after cleaning up the tubing.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


I dont know what other advice i can give you mate apart from the fact, that yes, at times residue can appear in tubing without it being plasticizer, and whilst only using Distilled water and a SKC.

I cant remember if you listed your gear within your loop(not so much the items as opposed to the various metals within it), but sometimes lesser deposits found in tubing may be a direct reaction to a combination of metals,tubing, temperatures and the purity of the water used for example.

I remember saying to you though that i thought that IMO it didn't look like plasticizer problems to me, the depositing was far less in volume.

If you want to post a few more variables within your loop, i or someone else will give you some more feedback, of that im sure.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PepeLapiu*
> 
> Well, I've heard enought problems about plastic tubing.
> So I'm making the move to copper tubes.
> No mixing metals either, all copper, no silver coil and no nickel plating either.
> Copper tubes might be just a little harder to fit but they will last forever, not leave any residue and the push fit fittings will make it so much easier to take down my build.
> There is always the issue of tarnishing copper, for that I will just paint my copper, or at least the visible parts of it.
> And it will look awesome too!


Paint it with what please? Im interested in what you had in mind seeing that i have exposed copper parts in one of my rigs









On a slightly different note-a photo of one of the rigs im testing tubing on-this is Mastercleer 7\16" ID - 5\8" OD (11-16mm) Tubing with Mayhem's pastel coolant (i mixed the colour to suit the sleeving myself).

Its been running for it 2+ weeks,im looking forward to tearing it down to see how it performed.
Ive been running the PC 24/7
Temps 25-27c idle and 30-34 full load.
No biocide or SKC seeing that the Mayhem's pastel coolants already incorporate those properties.


----------



## PepeLapiu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Paint it with what please? Im interested in what you had in mind seeing that i have exposed copper parts in one of my rigs


http://m.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Stops-Rust-11-oz-Gloss-Copper-Metallic-Spray-Paint-6-Pack-/202041220/

http://www.krylon.com/products/premium_metallic/

http://m.lowes.com/pd_303299-90-247567_0__?productId=3728983


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HGooper*
> 
> I've made a ticket to Primochill regarding the white powdery thing on my PrimoFlex Pro LRT White Tubing, and I got the answer here.
> Is it possible that coolant can create this kinda white powdery things or residue? And I was using distilled not coolant.
> Here're the pictures of before and after cleaning up the tubing.


This is the approach I have come to expect from Primochill.

Deny everything! Admit nothing! Refuse to agree with the obvious!


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> This is the approach I have come to expect from Primochill.
> Deny everything! Admit nothing! Refuse to agree with the obvious!


yeah, my first contact with them was similar, ended up in an ugly way ...


----------



## HGooper

I got a new reply again.
Quote:


> I have asked around and nobody has ever seen anything close to what you are experiencing. It may be some kind of residue left over from the manufacturing process of one of your components in the cooling loop.


For my loop, I did wash others parts and make sure all of them are clean to put inside the loop. The only part that's related with white is the Primochill tubing, and those white powdery are sticking inside the wall of the tubing and they are everywhere in the wall of tubing. They're sticky and can't wash them out by just shaking with water, I've to use some small cloth to get it thru inside the tubing and took them out.

So what the hell is this thing?


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HGooper*
> 
> I got a new reply again.
> For my loop, I did wash others parts and make sure all of them are clean to put inside the loop. The only part that's related with white is the Primochill tubing, and those white powdery are sticking inside the wall of the tubing and they are everywhere in the wall of tubing. They're sticky and can't wash them out by just shaking with water, I've to use some small cloth to get it thru inside the tubing and took them out.
> So what the hell is this thing?


Mate i know that i said that it may not be plasticizer, but please remember that i am no pro-i know quite a bit from reading and from first hand experience and from following other posters experiences, but there is always room for error-ergo there is always the possibility that it is plasticizer.

Plasticizer tends to be 'caked' on in the inside walls of the tubing and is dry and either flakes off or can be scraped off when the tubing is dry-you said that your deposits are sticky, is this after the tubing has been removed, and it has dried?

Either way, cleaning tubing is a waste of time-, but i would leave it running and see if you can reason with Primochill. Did you talk to Jennifer as i suggested?

Secondly, if you are not getting heavy deposits, then dont panic, you can still run your system with that tubing, you should just monitor it to make sure that a) its not getting worse and b) that its not migrating to your other loop components(fittings/reservoir. rad etc)

Thirdly, , if you can get replacement tubing, be it either from Primochill or whether you decide to change manufacturer, dump the old tubing and re tube your system with new tubing-cleaning tubing imo is a waste of time as i said before, and a huge time waster.


----------



## HGooper

Take a look on the left hand side, you'll notice there're some deposits stick at the wall, there're all little powdery like things. I really have no idea where and how are they coming from.

I was dealing with Julia(Customer Support Manager), and now my ticket has been closed, the reason for that is that "This ticket has been closed due to violation of company policy." I'm not yet started to argue with her and she already closed the ticket, wow what a good company.









So what next?


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HGooper*
> 
> 
> Take a look on the left hand side, you'll notice there're some deposits stick at the wall, there're all little powdery like things. I really have no idea where and how are they coming from.
> I was dealing with Julia(Customer Support Manager), and now my ticket has been closed, the reason for that is that "This ticket has been closed due to violation of company policy." I'm not yet started to argue with her and she already closed the ticket, wow what a good company.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what next?


take new pics on different background, sign up to their support system using a different e-mail, open a new ticket, hope to meet Jennifer next time









it looks pretty much like plasticizer leeching to me to be honest, especially that you were running plain distilled water (no additives right?) with Primoflex LRT. hwo often were you flushing the system? did water had any specific smell or color to it or nothing out of ordinary?


----------



## HGooper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feniks*
> 
> take new pics on different background, sign up to their support system using a different e-mail, open a new ticket, hope to meet Jennifer next time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it looks pretty much like plasticizer leeching to me to be honest, especially that you were running plain distilled water (no additives right?) with Primoflex LRT. hwo often were you flushing the system? did water had any specific smell or color to it or nothing out of ordinary?


Why does everyone talk about Jennifer? Sorry I just join this thread not too long ago and pretty much know nothing about it.

Yes I was running distilled water and silver coil only, nothing else. I started to build this loop about 1 year ago, never flush it and use it until recently.

Oh you remind me something, it did has strange smell when I flush it, especially I was flushing the radiator. It smells a bit like rusty smell, and somehow it also smells like beer lol. Didn't notice any strange about the color of water.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HGooper*
> 
> Why does everyone talk about Jennifer? Sorry I just join this thread not too long ago and pretty much know nothing about it.
> Yes I was running distilled water and silver coil only, nothing else. I started to build this loop about 1 year ago, never flush it and use it until recently.
> Oh you remind me something, it did has strange smell when I flush it, especially I was flushing the radiator. It smells a bit like rusty smell, and somehow it also smells like beer lol. Didn't notice any strange about the color of water.


1) We only found out about Jennifer recently, and she seems to be helpful, so thats why we suggest that you go through her.

2) The metallic smell from the rads is normal-i get it when i clean my loop, its just the copper.

3)Are you saying that you havent cleaned your rig for a full year?

4)You still havent told us whether you have deposits on your fittings/rad and reservoir mate


----------



## HGooper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> 1) We only found out about Jennifer recently, and she seems to be helpful, so thats why we suggest that you go through her.
> 2) The metallic smell from the rads is normal-i get it when i clean my loop, its just the copper.
> 3)Are you saying that you havent cleaned your rig for a full year?
> 4)You still havent told us whether you have deposits on your fittings/rad and reservoir mate


Yeah nearly one year, just started to clean it lol.

I did find some deposits/white powdery around all other parts, but they're not that many actually, most of them are inside the tubing or sticking at the tubing walls, I would say 80-90%.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HGooper*
> 
> Yeah nearly one year, just started to clean it lol.
> I did find some deposits/white powdery around all other parts, but they're not that many actually, most of them are inside the tubing or sticking at the tubing walls, I would say 80-90%.


Well i dont think i need to say much, if you havent cleaned your system for a whole year, except, that the amount of deposits you are showing for a rig that hasnt been cleaned for a year, imo isnt that much.

Probably not what you wanted to hear, but nevertheless the truth.

Most people that have complained about possible and probable plasticizer deposits, notice such deposits as soon as up to 3 wks of use, but generally after around a month+ of use.

Since you havent been monitoring your loop often enough, its hard to say whether your deposits are normal wear and tear, or plasticizer, but ill take a guess and say that if it were plasticizer, the depositing would be much more after a year of not cleaning your loop-and im pretty sure that you would also find alot of depositing within you blocks/fittings etc.

My 2 cents worth.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt Proton*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *HGooper*
> 
> I've made a ticket to Primochill regarding the white powdery thing on my PrimoFlex Pro LRT White Tubing, and I got the answer here.
> Is it possible that coolant can create this kinda white powdery things or residue? And I was using distilled not coolant.
> Here're the pictures of before and after cleaning up the tubing.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the approach I have come to expect from Primochill.
> 
> Deny everything! Admit nothing! Refuse to agree with the obvious!
Click to expand...

Exactly THIS! I have white LRT in my loop and have never run an additive or dye. I have the EXACT same problem with my tubing except I'm running copper a copper block with a copper and brass Radiator so the stuff took on the Patina of the Copper.









Don't let them bamboozle you. If you have the receipt and are running close to what I am then politely let them know that you would like them to replace the tubing with the White Advanced LRT. It's the least they can do to solve the issue. Cause no dye is gonna leave a grainy residue imho. Not unless you got the cheapest PoS dye on the market.









~Ceadder


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> No answer from Specialtech yet...
> 
> Still, aquatuning just informed me that they dont know if OR when they will bring Primochill Advanced Tube. They have no info about it yet.


I just got email from specialtech.co.uk regarding Primochill Advanced LRT Tubing....

There is stock en route to Europe but they have no firm due date yet. They will let me know as soon as they have any more news.


----------



## Capt Proton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HGooper*
> 
> 
> 
> I was dealing with Julia(Customer Support Manager), and now my ticket has been closed, the reason for that is that "This ticket has been closed due to violation of company policy."


Because they are monitoring this thread (no proof but it seems obvious to me) and saw your post. As a result, they got PO'd at you and have closed you case. Quite a professional approach.

This is, of course, my opinion, and it should be quite clear that I have no time or trust for Primochill.


----------



## HGooper

EK has already ready to send a new 7970 wb to me, the whole RMA process is quite smooth actually, I even asked them to ship to different address and they're ok with it. On the other hand Primochill has been very stinky and unfriendly just for few feets of tubing, more power to them and I'll never buy another product from them again.


----------



## Skivvy

just wanted to share my pics.

This is a 2 month old dual loop system. Silver and distilled only. The tubing in both loops looks exactly the same.

This is Primochill Pro LRT UV Blue and UV Green Model PFLEX-34-B and PFLEX-34-G.

sadly I bought 20 feet each of this stuff.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skivvy*
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad buddy, I do feel sorry for you. Now you have two choices first is deal with the manufactory. Second is decide if going to keep with them.
> just wanted to share my pics.
> 
> This is a 2 month old dual loop system. Silver and distilled only. The tubing in both loops looks exactly the same.
> 
> This is Primochill Pro LRT UV Blue and UV Green Model PFLEX-34-B and PFLEX-34-G.
> 
> sadly I bought 20 feet each of this stuff.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skivvy*
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad buddy, I do feel sorry for you. Now you have two choices first is deal with the manufactory. Second is decide if going to keep with them.
> just wanted to share my pics.
> 
> This is a 2 month old dual loop system. Silver and distilled only. The tubing in both loops looks exactly the same.
> 
> This is Primochill Pro LRT UV Blue and UV Green Model PFLEX-34-B and PFLEX-34-G.
> 
> sadly I bought 20 feet each of this stuff.


----------



## Skivvy

I would like to hear more discussion on the "system scrubber" they are sending out. Seems like this is just adding another problem to the problem, but if anyone had success with it I would be interested in hearing about it.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skivvy*
> 
> I would like to hear more discussion on the "system scrubber" they are sending out. Seems like this is just adding another problem to the problem, but if anyone had success with it I would be interested in hearing about it.


This question has been awnsered many times but none has got a pratic conclusion like just give a bath of syscrub on the tubes or in the hole loop.

1- the hole loop, it will leave residues that you cannot see it or you may not know if it is clean or not causing gely stuff in the fins on cpu block's and may glog in some coners.

2- bath the tube with syscrub. It may be good but this resut still unnknow. You may try it and post back.

3- or do not useit at alI.


----------



## Skivvy

agreed. Is it more or less a self limiting cosmetic issue or is this something that will continue to get worse and worse until it gets addressed?

seems that it may be ok to leave it alone for the next 6 months and just address it during my spring cleaning teardown I normally do anyway. As long as it doesn't tear up my pumps or leave gunk in my rad that I can never get out I think I will just let it ride for now.


----------



## kkorky

Im not going to rehash what has been addressed many times in this thread, the choices that *skyn3t* gave you are basically what you have at your disposal.

I personally would remove the tubing and replace it (have a read in the thread and see what tubing suits your needs).

With regards to your question regarding cosmetic vs problem causing, this is also addressed in this thread.

If you decide to RMA the tubing, contact Primochill directly and send them pictures and a copy of your invoice.

Good Luck


----------



## Systemlord

I will be installing my Loop near the end of the month and will be using System Scrubber, I have a lot of soldering to do and am still waiting for my MDPC stuff in the mail. I will also perform some tests leaving the System Scrubber concentrate on bare tubing and various metals to see what happens.


----------



## OsiViper

Well had the tubing running with the sysprep for a while then another week-week and a half with just clean distilled water and biocide.

You can easily see the plasticizer start to build up on the 1st one and added the dye back and causes kind of a pinkish color to the dyed water.


----------



## Skivvy

My system might have some unique results in the next few weeks due to the way I set up my CPU only loop. In my CPU loop the 1/2" tubing hits the CPU and I have the output reduced to 3/8" to hit the barb on the mosfet block of my z77 formula OC asrock motherboard. I realize this isn't ideal but asrock made the board so the barbs can not be changed, and my pump had lots of overhead so i just bumped it up a notch and flow is great still.

When I ordered th 3/8 tube the only primochill UV blue I could find was the advanced stuff. So my CPU loop currently has 1/2" primochill pro with some 3/8" primochill advanced. It will be interesting to see if the advanced stays clean and clear in the same loop as the pro....

I'll post pics later. I did read all 2000+ posts and didn't see anyone with the situation I described above in the testing/results groups.

EDIT/Update: just opened email from primochill customer service and they are going to replace my tubing with the advanced. Outstanding customer support (no doubt due to those of you that were early in this situation and brought it to light)

Thanks!


----------



## feniks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skivvy*
> 
> 
> 
> just wanted to share my pics.
> 
> This is a 2 month old dual loop system. Silver and distilled only. The tubing in both loops looks exactly the same.
> 
> This is Primochill Pro LRT UV Blue and UV Green Model PFLEX-34-B and PFLEX-34-G.
> 
> sadly I bought 20 feet each of this stuff.


that looks exactly like what I had with Primoflex LRT UV Blue in 2-3 weeks, also using distilled water and silver kill coil...


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skivvy*
> 
> My system might have some unique results in the next few weeks due to the way I set up my CPU only loop. In my CPU loop the 1/2" tubing hits the CPU and I have the output reduced to 3/8" to hit the barb on the mosfet block of my z77 formula OC asrock motherboard. I realize this isn't ideal but asrock made the board so the barbs can not be changed, and my pump had lots of overhead so i just bumped it up a notch and flow is great still.
> 
> When I ordered th 3/8 tube the only primochill UV blue I could find was the advanced stuff. So my CPU loop currently has 1/2" primochill pro with some 3/8" primochill advanced. It will be interesting to see if the advanced stays clean and clear in the same loop as the pro....
> 
> I'll post pics later. I did read all 2000+ posts and didn't see anyone with the situation I described above in the testing/results groups.
> 
> EDIT/Update: just opened email from primochill customer service and they are going to replace my tubing with the advanced. Outstanding customer support (no doubt due to those of you that were early in this situation and brought it to light)
> 
> Thanks!


LOL!









Good result-yes, Primochill seem to have got themselves back on the right path when it comes to CC









So it's one down and one to go-that though, will take some time to ascertain.

Anyway, glad to hear that you got some new tubing.

BTW (not that it matters now), but i was going to say, that if you had mixed tubing with plasticizer problems, with tubing that does not have such problems(or isn't as bad),
you would still more than likely have the same severe plasticizer problems in the better tubing because the plasticizer would migrate, and bond to the other tubing molecules.

Plasticizer does not seem to be able to bond with metal molecules as well, hence the lesser seen amounts of severe plasticizer deposits within fittings and blocks

But if you still feel like torturing yourself go ahead, and please post your feedback, i for one would be very interested in reading your results


----------



## kanaks

If guys at Primochill wantsto redeem themselves they should remove all non-advanced tubing from the shelves. Funny what marketing does, calling "advanced" something because is working (remaining to see) as intended.


----------



## Skivvy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good result-yes, Primochill seem to have got themselves back on the right path when it comes to CC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So it's one down and one to go-that though, will take some time to ascertain.
> 
> Anyway, glad to hear that you got some new tubing.
> 
> BTW (not that it matters now), but i was going to say, that if you had mixed tubing with plasticizer problems, with tubing that does not have such problems(or isn't as bad),
> you would still more than likely have the same severe plasticizer problems in the better tubing because the plasticizer would migrate, and bond to the other tubing molecules.
> 
> Plasticizer does not seem to be able to bond with metal molecules as well, hence the lesser seen amounts of severe plasticizer deposits within fittings and blocks
> 
> But if you still feel like torturing yourself go ahead, and please post your feedback, i for one would be very interested in reading your results


the torture really is the draining and tearing my loops apart. My case is a dangerden doublewide but with two pumps, to rads w/fans and shrouds, and everything it gets darn tight. Seemed like I would have unlimited space but not the situation at all.

I also used those darn monsoon compression fittings and they hate to let go of the tubing once they are tightened on. The look great and they are very secure.... but taking them off is a pain. (I end up holding the tubing with one hand and using the tool and it still twists the heck out of the tube before it releases)

I agree with the advanced tubing getting coated with the plasticizer. / The questions that I hope to explore is how much of that stuff is actually circulating in the loop in the first place. My pro tubing has a good "coat" of that stuff. It could be that at some point that powder layer seals the walls off the tube from contact with the water and the leeching stops. (I know this sort of thing happens in drinking water distrubution systems)

I did look at my blocks, my res and my fittings and they were clean. (for now).

I will do a complete tear down in a month or so.... and I will disect that 3/8 advanced tube and hang a photo here for reference. I will make it painfully clear that anything that appears on my advanced tubing, in this case, was caused by the other tubing in the loop.

When I get 3-4 months of the advanced only loops that will be a different story.


----------



## Agenesis

Haven't visited it this thread in quite a while now so I'm not sure if you guys are aware or not, but all of my Durelene tubing has developed some clouding. Not so serious as the LRT where you can scrape it off and see the layer of plasticizer, but if you scrape enough you can see some build up. I think the total time used was about 3~4 months.

Going to try neoprene this time and see how it stacks up. Unbelievable to see that this is still an issue in an market dominated by an audience of mostly wealthy people.


----------



## Homeronte

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agenesis*
> 
> Haven't visited it this thread in quite a while now so I'm not sure if you guys are aware or not, but all of my Durelene tubing has developed some clouding. Not so serious as the LRT where you can scrape it off and see the layer of plasticizer, but if you scrape enough you can see some build up. I think the total time used was about 3~4 months.
> 
> Going to try neoprene this time and see how it stacks up. Unbelievable to see that this is still an issue in an market dominated by an audience of mostly wealthy people.


Can you post pictures please?


----------



## OsiViper

Well my Clear advanced started to cloud up, but it is nowhere near as bad as the pro. its just a little foggy as compared to the pro going completely opaque.

My mayhem red dye turned purple again.... So I have decided i am gonna go with just plain distilled and get Red Primochill Advanced tubing and hope that goes better. Because purple just does not work with my color scheme..


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OsiViper*
> 
> Well my Clear advanced started to cloud up, but it is nowhere near as bad as the pro. its just a little foggy as compared to the pro going completely opaque.
> 
> My mayhem red dye turned purple again.... So I have decided i am gonna go with just plain distilled and get Red Primochill Advanced tubing and hope that goes better. Because purple just does not work with my color scheme..


Please excuse me if im preaching to the converted, but have you tried contacting Mick from Mayhem's?

He may be able to tell you where you are going wrong with your dye/loop setup etc :

http://www.overclock.net/t/1286896/mayhems-users-club

Try asking there, he always answers, and you may get a solution to your dye problem-imo it's a case of water Ph (im trying to help here







)

Thanks for the feedback on the advanced tubing (how long have you been using it, what are your temps in idle & under load, what hardware are you using), much appreciated, as i have said before, no matter what tubing is used, at least some clouding always eventually appears-but that having been said, its good to hear that the ADV tubing has not been showing signs of severe plasticizer-could you please post a couple of photos so that we may see what the tubing looks like-that would help immensely


----------



## Drakenxile

Is it dangerous too leave the plasticizer pellets in the loop like that or should i flush it right away?

I use Feser tubing is this a common problem also should i be switching tubes?


----------



## Creator

I'm a month in using durelene with lab grade di (not distilled, but di ionizes before you put into your loop anyway) and two drops of PT Nuke. The end result... *still clear!*

Durelene =


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OsiViper*
> 
> Well my Clear advanced started to cloud up, but it is nowhere near as bad as the pro. its just a little foggy as compared to the pro going completely opaque.
> 
> My mayhem red dye turned purple again.... So I have decided i am gonna go with just plain distilled and get Red Primochill Advanced tubing and hope that goes better. Because purple just does not work with my color scheme..


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Please excuse me if im preaching to the converted, but have you tried contacting Mick from Mayhem's?
> 
> He may be able to tell you where you are going wrong with your dye/loop setup etc :
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1286896/mayhems-users-club
> 
> Try asking there, he always answers, and you may get a solution to your dye problem-imo it's a case of water Ph (im trying to help here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> Thanks for the feedback on the advanced tubing (how long have you been using it, what are your temps in idle & under load, what hardware are you using), much appreciated, as i have said before, no matter what tubing is used, at least some clouding always eventually appears-but that having been said, its good to hear that the ADV tubing has not been showing signs of severe plasticizer-could you please post a couple of photos so that we may see what the tubing looks like-that would help immensely


You are not supposed to use biocide with the advanced tubing! It clearly states that on the packaging.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> I believe he left the System Prep for to long of a time, there could be other reasons why his tubing has a slight tint of purple that looks pink. Would like to see what it looks like when fully drained, I think OsiViper ran the System Prep to long, I mean you can only run the System Prep for so long.


Very true, thats another viable factor-imo i wouldnt use Sysprep anyway.

The reason i suggested he consult Mick though, is that others have suffered what he described, and the problem that caused the dye to change colour was the PH level in the coolant/liquid, due to (for example) rads not being flushed properly.

But the sys preb could well be the culprit-what we need is more concise info on whats in his rig etc, only then can we offer better advice


----------



## Bucshman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Very true, thats another viable factor-imo i wouldnt use Sysprep anyway.


Is that just a persona l opinion or is there something wrong with Sysprep? It came in the package with my Advanced LTR I ran it two weeks ago for 12 hours as suggested, and am running a mix of distilled and Liquid Utopia everything seems to be running fine.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucshman*
> 
> Is that just a persona l opinion or is there something wrong with Sysprep? It came in the package with my Advanced LTR I ran it two weeks ago for 12 hours as suggested, and am running a mix of distilled and Liquid Utopia everything seems to be running fine.


I have some as well with my new ADV tubing, its purely personal.

The logic behind my thinking, is that anything that is able to do what it claims to do, must be abrasive to the extent that i wouldn't trust it with my loops hardware, if anything happens to the fittings/blocks etc, im then not covered by their warranty.

But thats just me, some have used it and have had severe problems (look in this thread) and others have claimed to have used it without any problems.

The problem is that no 2 rigs are the same so there is no fixed set of variables on which to go by


----------



## Suwb4643

My XSPC tubes got totally "smokey" and gross.... Are the PrimoChill Advanced LRT (can't remember the name perfectly, sorry) white tubes fine?


----------



## Rakin

Did anyone buy Durelene Tubing from amazon? Amazon/Clearflex already sent me the wrong size once, I want to buy the durelene 10ft pack but scared if they send me the wrong size again.


----------



## Masterstroke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rakin*
> 
> Did anyone buy Durelene Tubing from amazon? Amazon/Clearflex already sent me the wrong size once, I want to buy the durelene 10ft pack but scared if they send me the wrong size again.


The Durelene on Amazon is sold by Sidewinder Computers, a trustworthy retailer.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_in_-2_p_4_13?me=A3JR0YCXC6EG04&rh=p_4%3ADurelene&ie=UTF8&qid=1358633234

I purchased mine yesterday so I can't report on sizing yet.


----------



## Rakin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Masterstroke*
> 
> The Durelene on Amazon is sold by Sidewinder Computers, a trustworthy retailer.
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_in_-2_p_4_13?me=A3JR0YCXC6EG04&rh=p_4%3ADurelene&ie=UTF8&qid=1358633234
> 
> I purchased mine yesterday so I can't report on sizing yet.


Nice. Can you get back to me if they sent you the right size or not when you receive it?

And another question, does durelene have anything written on the tubes like the clearflex or are they plain (Without writing) like the XSPC/Masterkleer tubes?


----------



## Suwb4643

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rakin*
> 
> Nice. Can you get back to me if they sent you the right size or not when you receive it?
> 
> And another question, does durelene have anything written on the tubes like the clearflex or are they plain (Without writing) like the XSPC/Masterkleer tubes?


I can't answer that but I just want to notify you that the XSPC tubes seem like they are "top quality" but sadly they're not. They get "smokey" and it made my EK-Koolant UV Blue to look like CYAN. Highly recommend their blocks, reservoirs, radiators (especially radiators) and fittings but not the tubing


----------



## Rakin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dominox64*
> 
> I can't answer that but I just want to notify you that the XSPC tubes seem like they are "top quality" but sadly they're not. They get "smokey" and it made my EK-Koolant UV Blue to look like CYAN. Highly recommend their blocks, reservoirs, radiators (especially radiators) and fittings but not the tubing


Yeah I know, and their 7/16 tubing are very stiff too. I initially had them.


----------



## Suwb4643

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rakin*
> 
> Yeah I know, and their 7/16 tubing are very stiff too. I initially had them.


I'm using them now. They have KINKED D:
Oh well, it's not affecting the performance at all-it will when I'll add a GPU


----------



## ElGreco

Guys,

i love mayhems products and customer care, but i have an issue...

I wait for primochill advanced tube to arrive in Europe. If biocide is not allowed, would the usage of X1 mayhems liquid be compatible with advanced lrt ? I ask this because i think? it contains biocide?!

any ideas?


----------



## Crooksy

Is the plasticizer an issue with the Primochill Primoflex Pro LRT tubing?


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crooksy*
> 
> Is the plasticizer an issue with the Primochill Primoflex Pro LRT tubing?


Yes.


----------



## Suwb4643

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Yes.


With what 7/16" tubing I'll be fine? I don't want tygon tubing since it gets Smokey


----------



## _REAPER_

I am having no issues with Masterkleer tubing


----------



## Crooksy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_REAPER_*
> 
> I am having no issues with Masterkleer tubing


I think I will have to go with Masterkleer too. How do you like it?


----------



## _REAPER_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crooksy*
> 
> I think I will have to go with Masterkleer too. How do you like it?


It is working really good for me I am having no issues at all.


----------



## Crooksy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_REAPER_*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Crooksy*
> 
> I think I will have to go with Masterkleer too. How do you like it?
> 
> 
> 
> It is working really good for me I am having no issues at all.
Click to expand...

Looks good and no problems with plasticizer? Tubing seems to be the hardest part to pick so far!


----------



## Masterstroke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rakin*
> 
> Nice. Can you get back to me if they sent you the right size or not when you receive it?
> 
> And another question, does durelene have anything written on the tubes like the clearflex or are they plain (Without writing) like the XSPC/Masterkleer tubes?


Certainly, not sure when it will arrive though.


----------



## kkorky

Mod, please delete-i made a mistake -thanks


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rakin*
> 
> And another question, does durelene have anything written on the tubes like the clearflex or are they plain (Without writing) like the XSPC/Masterkleer tubes?


From what i remember it does not, but;

Even if it does have printing on the side of it, all you need do is get a swab of cotton wool, dab a bit of rubbing alcohol (Isopropyl alcohol)on it and gently rub off the printing-it does *NOT* ruin the tubing, nor cloud it









I learned this trick a long while ago, when i had bought some Feser tubing that had external printing.

Mastercleer tubing-no problems whatsoever up till now-nearly 2 months usage, although, i would still rather use Durelene









7/16 btw and no kinks-in fact it's very pliable.



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dominox64*
> 
> With what 7/16" tubing I'll be fine? I don't want tygon tubing since it gets Smokey


*All* tubing eventually gets clouded to some extent (or smokey as you put it)


----------



## Velcrowchickensoup

XSPC tubing an plasticizer issues? Anyone had any?


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Velcrowchickensoup*
> 
> XSPC tubing an plasticizer issues? Anyone had any?


The cheap stuff that comes with their kits is notorious of plasticizing quickly. I've heard their regular tube they sell separately holds pretty good.


----------



## Velcrowchickensoup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> The cheap stuff that comes with their kits is notorious of plasticizing quickly. I've heard their regular tube they sell separately holds pretty good.


I got separate tubing because i didn't want to use dyes just distilled water, Got there black 7/16.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dominox64*
> 
> With what 7/16" tubing I'll be fine? I don't want tygon tubing since it gets Smokey


I haven't heard one single complaint with the "NEW" Primoflex Advanced LRT Tubing, most have been using for about three months no issues reported!


----------



## gavbon

Im in the market for some 1/2 - 3/4 tubing

clear, using with Mayhems Pastel yellow

which should i get? needs to be good stuff, pref stuff thats hard to kink

what you guys reckon?


----------



## Lareson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gavbon*
> 
> Im in the market for some 1/2 - 3/4 tubing
> 
> clear, using with Mayhems Pastel yellow
> 
> which should i get? needs to be good stuff, pref stuff thats hard to kink
> 
> what you guys reckon?


I use Durelene in my setup, which many have recommended if you're using Mayhem dyes. This stuff does bend fairly easy, but doesn't kink unless you're connecting 2 things fairly close together at an odd angle.


----------



## gavbon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lareson*
> 
> I use Durelene in my setup, which many have recommended if you're using Mayhem dyes. This stuff does bend fairly easy, but doesn't kink unless you're connecting 2 things fairly close together at an odd angle.


i shall try some, i just don't want plasticizer in my pump/res etc









Aslong as it doesn't kink as easily as master clear does and its quite flexible then itll be perfect


----------



## Suwb4643

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> From what i remember it does not, but;
> 
> Even if it does have printing on the side of it, all you need do is get a swab of cotton wool, dab a bit of rubbing alcohol (Isopropyl alcohol)on it and gently rub off the printing-it does *NOT* ruin the tubing, nor cloud it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I learned this trick a long while ago, when i had bought some Feser tubing that had external printing.
> 
> Mastercleer tubing-no problems whatsoever up till now-nearly 2 months usage, although, i would still rather use Durelene
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7/16 btw and no kinks-in fact it's very pliable.
> 
> 
> *All* tubing eventually gets clouded to some extent (or smokey as you put it)


TBH, I'm considering switching to the Elegant White from Primo....
Will it get noticeably clouded? Thanks!
What's your tubing btw?
edit:
I meant by what is your tubing rate by your satisfaction (one to ten), sorry if I was misunderstood


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dominox64*
> 
> TBH, I'm considering switching to the Elegant White from Primo....
> Will it get noticeably clouded? Thanks!
> What's your tubing btw?
> edit:
> I meant by what is your tubing rate by your satisfaction (one to ten), sorry if I was misunderstood


I cant give you an opinion on the Elegant white from Primochill- the reason being that its a fairly new product, and no feedback has been posted on it as yet either, and i personally have not used it (atm im testing the clear ADV).

i would rate the the Mastercleer tubing that i am using as 8/10-ill explain.

Firstly, i don't believe that there is a 10 out there as yet









Secondly, because i have only been running it for a few months-its too early to make a proper call on it, but so far it has been perfect, it has not lost its 'shine', and it was very easy to work with (its very pliable, yet does not kink), i also run my rigs 24/7 so 2 months use, is more or less 3-4 months for normal users (temps are between 24-26c idle, and 36-39 under full load)

The pastel that i am using is perfectly visible without any clouding/hazing as yet.

So that having been said-i would give it an 8 for now, i may well change my mind after another 2 months


----------



## Suwb4643

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> I cant give you an opinion on the Elegant white from Primochill- the reason being that its a fairly new product, and no feedback has been posted on it as yet either, and i personally have not used it (atm im testing the clear ADV).
> 
> i would rate the the Mastercleer tubing that i am using as 8/10-ill explain.
> 
> Firstly, i don't believe that there is a 10 out there as yet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, because i have only been running it for a few months-its too early to make a proper call on it, but so far it has been perfect, it has not lost its 'shine', and it was very easy to work with (its very pliable, yet does not kink), i also run my rigs 24/7 so 2 months use, is more or less 3-4 months for normal users (temps are between 24-26c idle, and 36-39 under full load)
> 
> The pastel that i am using is perfectly visible without any clouding/hazing as yet.
> 
> So that having been said-i would give it an 8 for now, i may well change my mind after another 2 months


I hate living here in Israel it's like 30C outside and the CPU gets 40 to 60C when I OC it :d
It also happens because I have two 6870s that exhaust the heat to the inner part of the case.
Anyway I'm a 7/16" 5/8" guy and all I have is Primochill/XSPC (which I have now from the kit)/Tygon which annoys me....
Boy I wish I could run the machine 24/7 but the HDD is defective for over 2 years and the seller agreed to take a look only today


----------



## kj1060

Quick question: How many times do you rinse a radiator after flushing it with vinegar? I did a quick flush of 50/50 distilled and vinegar and then rinsed the radiators 4 times with distilled water. They still smell like there is some trace amounts of vinegar in them.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kj1060*
> 
> Quick question: How many times do you rinse a radiator after flushing it with vinegar? I did a quick flush of 50/50 distilled and vinegar and then rinsed the radiators 4 times with distilled water. They still smell like there is some trace amounts of vinegar in them.


Get a bottle of Windex or other household cleaning product, rinse thoroughly with hot water and you can still smell the odors from all the chemicals. It's a good question nonetheless!


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Im not to sure about the duralene tubes guys im sorry to deliver bad news



i can deal with that clouding tho..
Im not to sure about the ((look alike)) christmas trees pc setups around here,,


----------



## kj1060

So rinse with windex, never heard of that before? I am asking because if I still smell it then I assume it is still in the radiators.

On another note I contacted primochill and they are sending me some replacement tubing was pretty easy, just needed to provide a picture and receipt.


----------



## Lareson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zGunBLADEz*
> 
> Im not to sure about the duralene tubes guys im sorry to deliver bad news
> 
> 
> 
> i can deal with that clouding tho..
> Im not to sure about the ((look alike)) christmas trees pc setups around here,,


Cloudiness is going to happen no matter what kind of tubing you have over a long period of time. Some break down way faster than others. Durelene so far has been the one that has held up the longest with only some slight hazing.

What's making your water that green color, doesn't look like the tubing is causing it. Usually green water means that you're getting copper in your water so something is breaking down. I'd take apart you loop and and see what's causing it.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lareson*
> 
> What's making your water that green color, doesn't look like the tubing is causing it. Usually green water means that you're getting copper in your water so something is breaking down. I'd take apart you loop and and see what's causing it.


something is breaking down?


----------



## Lareson

Breaking down is kind of a harsh term, but you definitely have something causing the copper in your loop to oxidize. It's the same thing as why the Statue of Liberty is green. Whatever it is, it's not the tubing, it's your water that's green.

Someone else might know what's going on, but my chemistry thoughts are telling me that you have copper oxidization in there.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

The pieces are new they were washed too and thats not green it looks like but is not.. More like clouding and light on the picture.
Its not even a month old tube..


----------



## _REAPER_

I am still not having any issues with my masterkleer tubing.


----------



## H4rd5tyl3

Anyone try the new PrimoFlex Advanced LRT and Tygon "Plasticizer Free" tubing yet?


----------



## sticks435

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lareson*
> 
> Breaking down is kind of a harsh term, but you definitely have something causing the copper in your loop to oxidize. It's the same thing as why the Statue of Liberty is green. Whatever it is, it's not the tubing, it's your water that's green.
> 
> Someone else might know what's going on, but my chemistry thoughts are telling me that you have copper oxidization in there.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zGunBLADEz*
> 
> The pieces are new they were washed too and thats not green it looks like but is not.. More like clouding and light on the picture.
> Its not even a month old tube..


Yep, it's the tubing not the water. I also have Duralene and after 5 months the water in my Res is crystal clear but my tubes are greenish haze.


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_REAPER_*
> 
> I am still not having any issues with my masterkleer tubing.


how long have you had it installed?


----------



## _REAPER_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feznz*
> 
> how long have you had it installed?


3 months no issues at all.


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_REAPER_*
> 
> 3 months no issues at all.


Thanks I was hoping you would say 12 months I got some of the masterkleer too. I have never seen that colour coolant before looks awesome!
btw my wife is from Butuan


----------



## kj1060

Quick question for those who got their Pro LRT replaced by Primochill. Did they make you pay for shipping the "new" Advanced tubing to you?


----------



## Skivvy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kj1060*
> 
> Quick question for those who got their Pro LRT replaced by Primochill. Did they make you pay for shipping the "new" Advanced tubing to you?


Nope. Primochill shipped out a replacement inch for inch at no cost to me. They covered shipping 100%.

The advanced has been working perfectly so far and no signs of plasticizer build up or clairity loss so far.


----------



## HiTekJeff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H4rd5tyl3*
> 
> Anyone try the new PrimoFlex Advanced LRT and Tygon "Plasticizer Free" tubing yet?


I am trying some right now and will continue to test for several months. Nothing to report, but it has not been in my loop very long so hard to tell at this time. Will update this thread as time goes on, about once a month.

Also, my XSPC "High Flex" tubing is working quite well. It does have some clouding to it, but not as bad as others and nothing breaking down that would hurt anything. Note, this is the kind you have to buy separate, NOT the cheap version that is known to have issues and usually comes with kits and such.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sticks435*
> 
> Yep, it's the tubing not the water. I also have Duralene and after 5 months the water in my Res is crystal clear but my tubes are greenish haze.


The only reason that the tubing and NOT the reservoir is showing the greenish haze is because tubing is far more porous than the materials used to make your reservoir, or even your blocks/fittings, ergo the green colour that is probably coming from your radiator is, showing up in your tubing









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lareson*
> 
> Cloudiness is going to happen no matter what kind of tubing you have over a long period of time. Some break down way faster than others. Durelene so far has been the one that has held up the longest with only some slight hazing.
> 
> What's making your water that green color, doesn't look like the tubing is causing it. Usually green water means that you're getting copper in your water so something is breaking down. I'd take apart you loop and and see what's causing it.


*
THIS^^^*

*
Some information on the 'Green Topic' that i had posted a few days ago in the OCN Cooling Club and pic Gallery:*
*
EXCUSE THE OT*

Secondly, as far as i was aware, certain coolants actually lower the loop temp and are also quite neutral in their Ph content-my advice to you would be to PM Mick on his thread (Mayhem's), im sure that he will offer you any suitable advice if he can-he's good that way.

The green corrosion is called patina, it is basically tarnish that occurs on the surface of copper/bronze and similar materials when the metal is exposed to various chemicals or acids and in turn oxidation takes place.

Have you had a look at the Ph of your loop (ideal Ph would be around 7 which is neutral), you can get Ph test strips very cheaply at any drugstore.

'Acid' (soft water) water being under Ph 7, and Alkaline water (hard water) being over Ph 7 (i remember this from my old days when i was an Aquarium enthsiast-now those were kick a** pumps







)

Anyway, here is a link to simplify what i have said: http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/ph.html

that may well be the cause of your 'Green' problem.

Hope it helps you solve your 'Green Problem'


----------



## DerComissar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *sticks435*
> 
> Yep, it's the tubing not the water. I also have Duralene and after 5 months the water in my Res is crystal clear but my tubes are greenish haze.
> 
> 
> 
> The only reason that the tubing and NOT the reservoir is showing the greenish haze is because tubing is far more porous than the materials used to make your reservoir, or even your blocks/fittings, ergo the green colour that is probably coming from your radiator is, showing up in your tubing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Lareson*
> 
> Cloudiness is going to happen no matter what kind of tubing you have over a long period of time. Some break down way faster than others. Durelene so far has been the one that has held up the longest with only some slight hazing.
> 
> What's making your water that green color, doesn't look like the tubing is causing it. Usually green water means that you're getting copper in your water so something is breaking down. I'd take apart you loop and and see what's causing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> THIS^^^*
> 
> *
> Some information on the 'Green Topic' that i had posted a few days ago in the OCN Cooling Club and pic Gallery:*
> *
> EXCUSE THE OT*
> 
> Secondly, as far as i was aware, certain coolants actually lower the loop temp and are also quite neutral in their Ph content-my advice to you would be to PM Mick on his thread (Mayhem's), im sure that he will offer you any suitable advice if he can-he's good that way.
> 
> The green corrosion is called patina, it is basically tarnish that occurs on the surface of copper/bronze and similar materials when the metal is exposed to various chemicals or acids and in turn oxidation takes place.
> 
> Have you had a look at the Ph of your loop (ideal Ph would be around 7 which is neutral), you can get Ph test strips very cheaply at any drugstore.
> 
> 'Acid' (soft water) water being under Ph 7, and Alkaline water (hard water) being over Ph 7 (i remember this from my old days when i was an Aquarium enthsiast-now those were kick a** pumps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> Anyway, here is a link to simplify what i have said: http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/ph.html
> 
> that may well be the cause of your 'Green' problem.
> 
> Hope it helps you solve your 'Green Problem'
Click to expand...

Another super-informative post from kkorky that just plain makes sense!








A well-deserved Rep+
And, a Rep+ for Lareson.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

That's the water coming out the loop yesterday night and you see is Crystal clear.

This are the duralene tubes not even 1 month
New vs old









I don't mind the haze as far its not plastizer is good in my book.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

And no you cannot prevent copper from getting tarnish/platina without direct treatment with chemicals in a day to day basics. Just like silver.

My sword knowledge and metal plating is speaking in here.

Try putting some silver in a closed bag with boiled eggs. Xd
Clean the tarnish on the silver? Some baking soda warm water and aluminum would do the trick.


----------



## Lareson

Like what kkorky said, the tubing is absorbing copper particles. It normally should be a white cloudy haze, not green. Your water is acidic enough it's breaking down the copper, suspending it in water, and getting absorbed into the tubing, even though your water is clear, there's copper in it. It's like the older houses that have lead pipes. Even though the water maybe crystal clear, the pipes are putting lead in it.

Need to take a look inside of your rad and/or blocks, just shine a flashlight into one of the ports. If there's even a small amount of green inside, that's the reason your tubing turning green.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

There is not platina I clean the pieces yesterday and looked at them inside out when I was adding some stuff into my loop. That's hazin which is normal.


----------



## _REAPER_

I am going to try out the Advanced to see if it has any issues I will report back the findings


----------



## Bucshman

I have been running red LTR Advanced with distilled and Liquid Utopia for a month to the day today. Happy to report no haze or plasticizer at all. Going to pull the whole system apart at 2 months, will cut the tubes in half and show the results then.


----------



## Fyrwulf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zGunBLADEz*
> 
> There is not platina I clean the pieces yesterday and looked at them inside out when I was adding some stuff into my loop. That's hazin which is normal.


Green isn't normal. If it's not patina, and the only way to verify that it to break down your loop and disassemble your blocks, then it's algae and you need to acquire bloom kill from an aquarium store.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fyrwulf*
> 
> Green isn't normal. If it's not patina, and the only way to verify that it to break down your loop and disassemble your blocks, then it's algae and you need to acquire bloom kill from an aquarium store.












Oh my what part of the "pieces are brand new and they were cleaned twice" as i rebuild my loop for a 2nd time you guys dont understand..

The tubes would absorb so much of this green substance you guys are talking why is there none on the water i drain out of the loop??

Ok i decided to do something.. I took one piece i still had around which i took out when i redid my loop again. Use rubbing alcohol and a qtip in one end and leave the other end untouch..

I ((MAKE SURE)) i take a better picture with better lightning as the one down here where the computer sits its no clear white and is lights for birds..

Now tell me what you call that stuff...



Oh noes the greens...

Some people around here are so paranoid and over exaggerate sometimes XD


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zGunBLADEz*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my what part of the "pieces are brand new and they were cleaned twice" as i rebuild my loop for a 2nd time you guys dont understand..
> 
> The tubes would absorb so much of this green substance you guys are talking why is there none on the water i drain out of the loop??
> 
> Ok i decided to do something.. I took one piece i still had around which i took out when i redid my loop again. Use rubbing alcohol and a qtip in one end and leave the other end untouch..
> 
> I ((MAKE SURE)) i take a better picture with better lightning as the one down here where the computer sits its no clear white and is lights for birds..
> 
> Now tell me what you call that stuff...
> 
> Oh noes the greens...
> 
> Some people around here are so paranoid and over exaggerate sometimes XD


No they are not, all they are trying to do is help you-maybe you should have provided the proper or complete information in the beginning, instead of bits here and there, whilst complaining that people trying to help don't understand.

As for your green colour not being visible in the water, the copper particles suspended in the water may be , and are often too small for the naked eye to see-that's why its not visible in the water if your problem is patina.

One can only understand properly, if you *EXPLAIN* yourself properly-so enough with the 'oh you guys dont understand'









Your tubing problem has been given to you, its one of the two or three solutions that were previously mentioned-you claim that you have cleaned your loop-maybe not well enough.

Everything is subjective.

Tubing problems do not fall under the category of rocket science-you have 1)Hazing 2)Plasticizer 3)Staining 4)Algae 5) Absorbtion of elements from the liquid circulating in the loop 6)CHEAP TUBING

One final question-what is the Ph of your loop, and explain how exactly you clean your radiator. you said, and i quote:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zGunBLADEz*
> 
> There is not platina I clean the pieces yesterday and looked at them inside out when I was adding some stuff into my loop. That's hazin which is normal.


You cleaned your blocks inside and out-but they aren't the cause of the possible patina problem-this is what you are not understanding-its your radiators which usually cause the problems, and im willing to bet that most people do not truly clean their radiators properly how did you manage to loook inside your radiator(s)









I, as are others here, are trying to help you; if you cant provide the information asked for, and not what you choose to give-how can the contributors in this thread help you?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Yeah I know they are trying to help me. But I'm telling you that its not green, platina or algae neither. And you guys keep saying the same stuff over and over.

SD


----------



## mybadomen

*Hiya Guys,*

Just wanted to show why not to run Copper Sulphate in a loop. Yes its great at killing Algae etc but its just as good at killing tubing. I found this out months ago, but here are some more recent tests using different brands of tubing.

Here is 1 drop of Copper Sulphate (Found in most Biocides on the Market) to roughly 1 quart of water to accelerate the damage.Both pieces of tubing were brand new and placed in a glass Cup for only 24 hours (PH level was 7 at start and end of the test).

*Results:*



Even 1 drop to a whole loop with only Steam distilled will do the same.It just takes a bit longer. I been repeating this same test with Biocides in loops ,Jars and side by side systems just running steamed distilled. There is no question Copper Sulphate highly reduces the life of tubing and in my opinion should not even be sold for use in a PC loop.

Just thought i would add this as i now know for sure whether its soft tubing or hard tubing (Not bringing any brand names into it as it doesn't matter) Copper Sulphate will kill it.

*But by no means is this an answer for all the problems in this thread. Just 1 thing to avoid.*

*Take Care.*

*EDIT:* This was using only 1 brand of Biocide containing Copper Sulphate (Dead Water) so results could differ with other brands if anyone wants to try testing the brands they own it might help out a bit.

Just thought i would add that also.in case it was just the brand i was testing with. Trying to get straight Copper Sulphate to test some more. Just still curious to a bunch of different things. At least we have a few good tubing's on the market now to run but still trying different things that i find can cause tubing damage also.


----------



## Lareson

Dang, that's bad... It looks even worse on the bottom tubing, whatever kind it is. This has got me thinking now, but at this point, anyone that's going to buy a biocide, make sure it doesn't have Copper Sulfate. I went with Koolance's coolant so I don't have any issues myself, but I might know a few people that might want to check this out.

Also as a question, what's with the dates on the tubing? They're throwing me off.


----------



## jagz

Durelene still the way to go? I'm going to do some loop maintenence soon.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jagz*
> 
> Durelene still the way to go? I'm going to do some loop maintenence soon.


im loving my primochill advanced lrt, tested out the clear for a month and have zero clouding or plasitcizer issues, so i ordered 10ft of the bloodshed red primochill advanced lrt


----------



## mybadomen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lareson*
> 
> Dang, that's bad... It looks even worse on the bottom tubing, whatever kind it is. This has got me thinking now, but at this point, anyone that's going to buy a biocide, make sure it doesn't have Copper Sulfate. I went with Koolance's coolant so I don't have any issues myself, but I might know a few people that might want to check this out.
> 
> Also as a question, what's with the dates on the tubing? They're throwing me off.


Lol was just the date i put them in as i was thinking i would get at least 3 days . But nope next morning they looked like the photo. remember this was more Biocide then recommended but i also got same results using the proper mixture over a longer period of time compared to using straight distilled. so basically the dates mean nothing because the test didn't last long enough.Still would love to see some others also try it using there biocides or tubing's to see if the results are the same though.


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> *Hiya Guys,*
> 
> Just wanted to show why not to run Copper Sulphate in a loop. Yes its great at killing Algae etc but its just as good at killing tubing. I found this out months ago, but here are some more recent tests using different brands of tubing.
> 
> Here is 1 drop of Copper Sulphate (Found in most Biocides on the Market) to roughly 1 quart of water to accelerate the damage.Both pieces of tubing were brand new and placed in a glass Cup for only 24 hours (PH level was 7 at start and end of the test).
> 
> *Results:*
> 
> 
> 
> Even 1 drop to a whole loop with only Steam distilled will do the same.It just takes a bit longer. I been repeating this same test with Biocides in loops ,Jars and side by side systems just running steamed distilled. There is no question Copper Sulphate highly reduces the life of tubing and in my opinion should not even be sold for use in a PC loop.
> 
> Just thought i would add this as i now know for sure whether its soft tubing or hard tubing (Not bringing any brand names into it as it doesn't matter) Copper Sulphate will kill it.
> 
> *But by no means is this an answer for all the problems in this thread. Just 1 thing to avoid.*
> 
> *Take Care.*
> 
> *EDIT:* This was using only 1 brand of Biocide containing Copper Sulphate (Dead Water) so results could differ with other brands if anyone wants to try testing the brands they own it might help out a bit.
> 
> Just thought i would add that also.in case it was just the brand i was testing with. Trying to get straight Copper Sulphate to test some more. Just still curious to a bunch of different things. At least we have a few good tubing's on the market now to run but still trying different things that i find can cause tubing damage also.




I had long suspected that copper sulphate was a leading cause of plasterisation, mainly because of the biocide we use for work has been causing problems with rubber seals needing replacement every 2 months I remedied the problem by using PTFE seals 12 months later no leaks. (I work in a tannery). I also suspect that silver coils are another cause of build up as everyone says they work because the coil is dissappearing but if it is not suspended in the water then it could only be deposited somewhere in the loop, It has to be some where as it defies physics to completly dissappear.

These photos are from my water loop that have been in storage for over 3 years I had left automotive antifreeze connected in a loop to protect the radiator and cpu from corrosion. one is cheap hardware store pvc and the other is the supplied tubing with my thermaltake armour cooling kit.
I removed the loop because of upgrade to sandy bridge and the waterblock didn't fit and a half decent air cooler was half the price of a cpu waterblock. I had a 4.5 Ghz oc maxing out at 75 degrees on a prime blend.

I seen this thread accidently when trying to decide what to fill my new water loop up with (I tried to kill the water cooling addiction but it came back) in the end I decided again to use automotive antifreeze red in colour. The only reasons I see why people are against this is;
-glycol reduces the themal conductivity by 5-10%
-glycol is conductive
-glycol may attack plexiglass(I have seen evidence of this on some plastics)

I am pulling down my rig to fit gpu blocks and add another radiator next week but still after 2 months my xspc tubing is still crysal clear but will confirm this later.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mybadomen*
> 
> *Hiya Guys,*
> 
> Just wanted to show why not to run Copper Sulphate in a loop. Yes its great at killing Algae etc but its just as good at killing tubing. I found this out months ago, but here are some more recent tests using different brands of tubing.
> 
> Here is 1 drop of Copper Sulphate (Found in most Biocides on the Market) to roughly 1 quart of water to accelerate the damage.Both pieces of tubing were brand new and placed in a glass Cup for only 24 hours (PH level was 7 at start and end of the test).
> 
> *Results:*
> 
> 
> 
> Even 1 drop to a whole loop with only Steam distilled will do the same.It just takes a bit longer. I been repeating this same test with Biocides in loops ,Jars and side by side systems just running steamed distilled. There is no question Copper Sulphate highly reduces the life of tubing and in my opinion should not even be sold for use in a PC loop.
> 
> Just thought i would add this as i now know for sure whether its soft tubing or hard tubing (Not bringing any brand names into it as it doesn't matter) Copper Sulphate will kill it.
> 
> *But by no means is this an answer for all the problems in this thread. Just 1 thing to avoid.*
> 
> *Take Care.*
> 
> *EDIT:* This was using only 1 brand of Biocide containing Copper Sulphate (Dead Water) so results could differ with other brands if anyone wants to try testing the brands they own it might help out a bit.
> 
> Just thought i would add that also.in case it was just the brand i was testing with. Trying to get straight Copper Sulphate to test some more. Just still curious to a bunch of different things. At least we have a few good tubing's on the market now to run but still trying different things that i find can cause tubing damage also.


You never bothered to mention what brand tubing you used in your pictures shown!









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> im loving my primochill advanced lrt, tested out the clear for a month and have zero clouding or plasitcizer issues, so i ordered 10ft of the bloodshed red primochill advanced lrt


Tell us what you're using as far as biocide or silver coils to keep algae from forming, or are you just running distilled?


----------



## kkorky

In reply to this quote : "I had long suspected that copper sulphate was a leading cause of plasterisation"

I say this:

http://www.materialsviews.com/barrier-coating-reduces-plasticizer-leaching-from-pvc/ (i've posted this link 3 times before)

This fully explains the cause of plasticizer seepage (commonly known in water cooling circles as plasticizer problems)

(buy the PDF if you want the in-depth version: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ppap.201200005/abstract;jsessionid=9BDFFDBF729C07E227FF1F81F6A53782.d02t02)

*
Anything* introduced into a loop performs the role of a catalyst-the catalyst depending on it's strength or chemical composition, will be the reason for the increase of speed at which tube deterioration takes place and *not* the initial & main reason for plasticizer problems-*PLASTICIZER PROBLEMS ARE ENDEMIC BY THE VERY FACT THAT IT (PLASTICIZER) IS USED IN TUBING.
*

The problem for tubing manufacturers is being able to make tubing that isn't vulnerable to the catalyst, and more importantly tubing that does not suffer from plasticizer seepage-some tubing companies are closer to the goal than others.

This is in no way meant to demean any feedback or experiments that many of us that are interested in finding a solution have undertaken-such endeavours also play an important role









But it is time to realise that *ALL* tubing eventually suffers from plasticizer seepage-from the moment the tubing is made, the breakdown process begins-some faster than others.

What we water coolers add to the loop does not cause plasticizer, it merely increases the speed at which it appears, and the amount.

The facts are there-all it takes is a little effort to look them up.

Some manufacturers *claim* to have solved the problem, some haven't, and some are quietly working on the problem (if they have any financial sense).

There is no main culprit, there are many variables that *must* be taken into account by the tubing manufacturers-but that isnt of any real interest to 95% of the consumers-what the consumer wants is tubing that works-plain and simple


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> In reply to this quote : "I had long suspected that copper sulphate was a leading cause of plasterisation"
> 
> I say this:
> 
> http://www.materialsviews.com/barrier-coating-reduces-plasticizer-leaching-from-pvc/ (i've posted this link 3 times before)
> 
> This fully explains the cause of plasticizer seepage (commonly known in water cooling circles as plasticizer problems)
> 
> (buy the PDF if you want the in-depth version: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ppap.201200005/abstract;jsessionid=9BDFFDBF729C07E227FF1F81F6A53782.d02t02)
> 
> *
> Anything* introduced into a loop performs the role of a catalyst-the catalyst depending on it's strength or chemical composition, will be the reason for the increase of speed at which tube deterioration takes place and *not* the initial & main reason for plasticizer problems-*PLASTICIZER PROBLEMS ARE ENDEMIC BY THE VERY FACT THAT IT (PLASTICIZER) IS USED IN TUBING.
> *
> 
> The problem for tubing manufacturers is being able to make tubing that isn't vulnerable to the catalyst, and more importantly tubing that does not suffer from plasticizer seepage-some tubing companies are closer to the goal than others.
> 
> This is in no way meant to demean any feedback or experiments that many of us that are interested in finding a solution have undertaken-such endeavours also play an important role
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it is time to realise that *ALL* tubing eventually suffers from plasticizer seepage-from the moment the tubing is made, the breakdown process begins-some faster than others.
> 
> What we water coolers add to the loop does not cause plasticizer, it merely increases the speed at which it appears, and the amount.
> 
> The facts are there-all it takes is a little effort to look them up.
> 
> Some manufacturers *claim* to have solved the problem, some haven't, and some are quietly working on the problem (if they have any financial sense).
> 
> There is no main culprit, there are many variables that *must* be taken into account by the tubing manufacturers-but that isnt of any real interest to 95% of the consumers-what the consumer wants is tubing that works-plain and simple


concidering that the tubing I have tubing that has had over 5 years in contact with antifreeze (2 years in loop 3 years in storage) I must have some super tubing if someone can replcate clouding/plasterisation in 24 hours with copper sulphate.
*Copper sulphate maybe a accelerant to this process to techinically correct.*


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feznz*
> 
> concidering that the tubing I have tubing that has had over 5 years in contact with antifreeze (2 years in loop 3 years in storage) I must have some super tubing if someone can replcate clouding/plasterisation in 24 hours with copper sulphate.
> *Copper sulphate maybe a accelerant to this process to techinically correct.*


Yes that what im trying to get across-you are correct









Catalyst= accelerant.


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Yes that what im trying to get across-you are correct
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Catalyst= accelerant.


lol I had to look up Catalyst as I normally associated that to fiberglass and catalatic converters in cars








I have to ask what would you use for cooling fluid in a loop I am pulling my loop down and am probably going to put the antifreeze back in I like the idea of pure water because of thermal efficiency but corrosion and algae are the main issue I would rather avoid at all cost.

I just looked at you profile of course it would be Mayhems Pastel or any other computer grade coolant.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feznz*
> 
> lol I had to look up Catalyst as I normally associated that to fiberglass and catalatic converters in cars
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to ask what would you use for cooling fluid in a loop I am pulling my loop down and am probably going to put the antifreeze back in I like the idea of pure water because of thermal efficiency but corrosion and algae are the main issue I would rather avoid at all cost.
> 
> I just looked at you profile of course it would be Mayhems Pastel or any other computer grade coolant.


Yes you would be correct in assuming that i use Mayhem's coolants(although my profile is very old, and i will be updating it soon-i am light years ahead of that rig, not to mention, knowledge-wise now)

At present, i am using a white pastel, to which i added coloured dye-very nice effect and no problems whatsoever with regards to plasticizer (as yet) nor algae growth.

Mayhem's also make X1 which is a clear coolant, which also has anti corrosive and anti bacterial properties in it, so you would just use it on it's own in a loop.

If you dont want to pay that much, you could go with Distilled water -try to make sure that the Ph (acid/alkaline level) is at 7-that is neutral).
Then you could buy a dye such as mayhems dye and add it to your loop.

With regards to the SKC and biocide issue-i only know of one tubing at the moment (not including certain Tygon food/beverage type tubing) that *claims* to not need those items, and that is Primochill Advanced, *BUT* do not take my word as gospel, because i have not used it enough, nor in that configuration to make a valid *personal* comment as yet.

There are other users in this thread that have said good things about it, but, the tubing is new(on the market), and i do not know what they have used in their loop (the consumer)- so i could not say with certainty 'x' user has had 'x' results etc.

A good rule of thumb when deciding what to do, is to take advice from people that do not back up their claims (both negative & positive) with properly documented proof, with a pinch of salt, there are many over enthusiastic people out there, many fanboys, and others with hidden agendas.

Decide on which tubing you want to go with by reading up a bit to get a rough idea what you think will work best for you, then go ahead and build your loop-you will soon see if your choice was correct.

Hope this helped, if only a bit, good luck in your battle to stave of algae


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Yes you would be correct in assuming that i use Mayhem's coolants(although my profile is very old, and i will be updating it soon-i am light years ahead of that rig, not to mention, knowledge-wise now)
> 
> At present, i am using a white pastel, to which i added coloured dye-very nice effect and no problems whatsoever with regards to plasticizer (as yet) nor algae growth.
> 
> Hope this helped, if only a bit, good luck in your battle to stave of algae


Thanks for the indepth info I will give you a rep for that.

I simply donot want to use distilled water only, basically because of no corrosion inhibitor. I live in New Zealand and any pc coolant is way too expensive for what it is(60usd 1Lt), we only have one pc shop I am aware of that actually stocks any water cooling parts and only EK. I don't want the hassel of importing coolant, I am currently waiting 4 weeks for radiator + gpu blocks to arrive from USA. almost there tracking make sat or mon delivery.
I used automotive coolant in the past no problems I have a 5 year 250,000km guaratee on this stuff so I am sure it will last till Titans arrive


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feznz*
> 
> Thanks for the indepth info I will give you a rep for that.
> 
> I simply donot want to use distilled water only, basically because of no corrosion inhibitor. I live in New Zealand and any pc coolant is way too expensive for what it is(60usd 1Lt), we only have one pc shop I am aware of that actually stocks any water cooling parts and only EK. I don't want the hassel of importing coolant, I am currently waiting 4 weeks for radiator + gpu blocks to arrive from USA. almost there tracking make sat or mon delivery.
> I used automotive coolant in the past no problems I have a 5 year 250,000km guaratee on this stuff so I am sure it will last till Titans arrive


LOL!


----------



## wermad

Any word if Tyler Ind. will be making green Advance?

My Duralene it starting to give after about two months







. Is there another green tube out there that will hold? Really frustrated in wasting money with tube and dyes.


----------



## fakeblood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feznz*
> 
> Thanks for the indepth info I will give you a rep for that.
> 
> I simply donot want to use distilled water only, basically because of no corrosion inhibitor. I live in New Zealand and any pc coolant is way too expensive for what it is(60usd 1Lt), we only have one pc shop I am aware of that actually stocks any water cooling parts and only EK. I don't want the hassel of importing coolant, I am currently waiting 4 weeks for radiator + gpu blocks to arrive from USA. almost there tracking make sat or mon delivery.
> I used automotive coolant in the past no problems I have a 5 year 250,000km guaratee on this stuff so I am sure it will last till Titans arrive


Hey mate. You could give techworld.co.nz they sell mayhem pastel dyes at a decent price. He also has quite a bit of xspc gears. Been going to him over CL lately.


----------



## Neo Zuko

After reading this thread for months, I still don't have an answer between Duraleen, plasticizer free Tygon, and Advanced Primochill.


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fakeblood*
> 
> Hey mate. You could give techworld.co.nz they sell mayhem pastel dyes at a decent price. He also has quite a bit of xspc gears. Been going to him over CL lately.


OMG thanks thats a rep I think they need to advtise some how lol I probably would have gone there first if I knew about them Thanks
Actually just having a browse now very resonable prices I just spent $640 at frozenpc and $220 on post and tax and still waiting for the delivery oh well live and learn.
Limited selection but I think I would have just changed my order to what they had in stock but I will keep them in mind for the future I am going to order some 120mm fans from them now and some coolant.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feznz*
> 
> OMG thanks thats a rep I think they need to advtise some how lol I probably would have gone there first if I knew about them Thanks


Hey good one-what a result-ill still have a look at things on my end as promised.

BTW, you mentioned that you were using Mastercleer tubing, my wife's rig is using that atm, with Mayhems pastel-no problems at all Coming up to 4 months use 24/7, so thats something you possibly want to have a look at


----------



## Fyrwulf

Okay, time out. Has _anybody_ tried more expensive tubing*? By that I mean the sort of thing you'd only get from a plastics retailer. It baffles me why people would spend all this money on radiators, reservoirs, pumps, etc, etc and then skimp on the _one thing_ that is absolutely necessary to make water cooling work.

* - I mean Saint-Gobain hospital/laboratory-grade tubing with high wall hardness and temperature ratings. The price varies by exactly what you're getting, but it's $2+/ft.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fyrwulf*
> 
> Okay, time out. Has _anybody_ tried more expensive tubing*? By that I mean the sort of thing you'd only get from a plastics retailer. It baffles me why people would spend all this money on radiators, reservoirs, pumps, etc, etc and then skimp on the _one thing_ that is absolutely necessary to make water cooling work.
> 
> * - I mean Saint-Gobain hospital/laboratory-grade tubing with high wall hardness and temperature ratings. The price varies by exactly what you're getting, but it's $2+/ft.


I would say yes.

Imho, i dont think that people want to skimp on tubing, it just seems that at the moment the cheaper tubing, such as Durlene performs better than more expensive tubing out there.

Im not going to delve back into the thread to get examples, but ive seen all kind of tubing types pass before my eyes so to speak, in this thread.

Remember one thing-Saint Gobain are the makers of Tygon, Durelene etc.









Ive seen people that have tried all types of top grade Tygon tubing, in this thread, that though does not preclude you from getting the tubing you suggested, using it and posting some feedback-i, and im sure other followers of this thread would love to get feedback on any tubing-it all adds to the overall picture, good suggestion though


----------



## Fyrwulf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Remember one thing-Saint Gobain are the makers of Tygon, Durelene etc.


I know, which is why I put Saint-Gobain in my post and not one of their trade names.
Quote:


> Ive seen people that have tried all types of top grade Tygon tubing, in this thread, that though does not preclude you from getting the tubing you suggested, using it and posting some feedback-i, and im sure other followers of this thread would love to get feedback on any tubing-it all adds to the overall picture, good suggestion though


Unfortunately my only computer at the moment is a laptop and even when it was alive my Alienware was never easy to work with. That said, when I do build my next desktop I'm certainly going to make sure the tubing is top flight; I don't know that I'll splurge on the stuff rated for acids and radioactive waste, but assuredly FEP tubing or another fluoropolymer.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> After reading this thread for months, I still don't have an answer between Duraleen, plasticizer free Tygon, and Advanced Primochill.


You must have missed a few posts, there have been people using the new Advanced LRT for months without any problems or discoloration, most of those users using clear tubing. I have had both clear and Bloodshed Red sitting in an acid bath for 48 hours with no hint of discoloration or hazing.


----------



## judi924

Wanted to post my experience. I believe it's much the same as others who have contributed to this thread.
My GPU took a dump so I had to RMA it and decided to redo the tubing in my loop. I have Durelene tubing ordered from Sidewinder Comps off Amazon Marketplace.
These are pictures after two months using brand new waterblocks (Heatkiller GPU & Raystorm CPU), brand new bitspower Nickel barbs, & a brand new XSPC RX360 rad.
Coolant is just Safeway Refreshe Distilled water w/Deadwater & 2 silver killcoils inside the reservoir.

This is the loop after I cut out the GPU lines & was draining the water out. Notice the yellow tint.


More pictures of the used tubing.


And some pics of the used tubing compared to brand new.

Also something interesting to note, the following pic is part of the line where I had a drain valve installed. There was no running water though this part of the line. To the right you can see the T-splitter and this tubing went strait down to the bottom of the case. The coolant flows straight through the T-splitter back into the reservoir/pump.


I didn't have the patience to order some other tubing and see how it works, my rig was down for nearly 3 wks waiting for the GPU RMA. I rebuilt the loop with the same Duralene tubing and this time am using H20 brand Distilled water w/PT Nuke & same 2 silver kill coils. I know that recent posts have suggested the additives are causing the plasticizer but I'll see how this goes.


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *judi924*
> 
> Wanted to post my experience. I believe it's much the same as others who have contributed to this thread.
> 
> I didn't have the patience to order some other tubing and see how it works, my rig was down for nearly 3 wks waiting for the GPU RMA. I rebuilt the loop with the same Duralene tubing and this time am using H20 brand Distilled water w/PT Nuke & same 2 silver kill coils. I know that recent posts have suggested the additives are causing the plasticizer but I'll see how this goes.


I am still yet to see someone contribute that when using glycol based coolant with no biocide, have clouding/plasterisation or coolant discolorisation maybe there is something in that? To be truthful I also havn't read all 230+ pages.
I would do this get a cup put 5 drops of PT Nuke in it + water, I know that's way too much but this will give you an idea over night what will happen in 1-2 weeks or months. just I wouldn't like the idea of pulling down a rig if you can replicate a test in a cup and predict the out come
And please post your findings:thumb:


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fyrwulf*
> 
> Okay, time out. Has _anybody_ tried more expensive tubing*? By that I mean the sort of thing you'd only get from a plastics retailer. It baffles me why people would spend all this money on radiators, reservoirs, pumps, etc, etc and then skimp on *the one thing that is absolutely necessary to make water cooling work*..


Because you can have a water cooling system without a coolant or pump?


----------



## Lareson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feznz*
> 
> I am still yet to see someone contribute that when using glycol based coolant with no biocide, have clouding/plasterisation or coolant discolorisation maybe there is something in that?


I've been using the Koolance UV Red coolant in my loop with Durelene tubing for over a month now. I reconfigured it a couple weeks ago and did a complete drain, including replacing a section of tubing.





Bottom is the older tubing, top is a section of new. Ignore the pink spots, that's just dried coolant. You can kind of tell I do have some slight hazing. It did wipe off, but I'm also wondering if it was from when I did my leak testing. Come to find out that when I did it, I used a gal jug of drinking water that I though was distilled. I got it from my dad as that's what he was using in his loop for refilling. If I knew from the beginning that it was drinking, I wouldn't of used it for my tests so this could be mineral buildup from that from the little bit of excess water that was left in the loop.

When I break down my system again in a few months, I'll report how the section of new tubing I installed and the original is doing.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> You must have missed a few posts, there have been people using the new Advanced LRT for months without any problems or discoloration, most of those users using clear tubing. I have had both clear and Bloodshed Red sitting in an acid bath for 48 hours with no hint of discoloration or hazing.


I do kinda skim but I guess I expected far more hands on for sure buy this endorsements by now for the new Advanced Primochill. But you are right, Duraleen or Advanced Primochill seem to be ok based off the results here.


----------



## nleksan

I use nothing but PTNuke-PHN and Distilled Water (my TDS-meter reads 000 fresh out of the 2.5gal container and 002 after 6mo), and I have never had any plasticizer issues....since stopping the use of a Kill Coil and monitoring the PH of my water, and the same goes for a number of friends.

Running with a PH of 7.06 and with nothing but PTN-PHN, one friend has had PrimoFlex Pro LRT tubing running for going on 19 weeks without a hint of plasticizer. In another computer, from the same exact roll of PF PRO LRT, a system has the same Distilled Water (from same container) and is using a Kill Coil and regular PT-Nuke; it started leaching within the first 2 days, and the PH has ranged from ~5.9 to 8.75 over the same period of time!!!

I will have to do some more experimenting, but I think that the Kill Coils and the PH of the loop are keys in this...


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lareson*
> 
> 
> 
> Bottom is the older tubing, top is a section of new. Ignore the pink spots, that's just dried coolant. You can kind of tell I do have some slight hazing. It did wipe off, but I'm also wondering if it was from when I did my leak testing. Come to find out that when I did it, I used a gal jug of drinking water that I though was distilled. I got it from my dad as that's what he was using in his loop for refilling. If I knew from the beginning that it was drinking, I wouldn't of used it for my tests so this could be mineral buildup from that from the little bit of excess water that was left in the loop.
> 
> your hazing did wipe off I can see this clearly in the pic.
> judi924 coolant has clearly penetrated the tubing100%
> 
> http://koolance.com/liq-702-liquid-coolant-bottle-high-performance-700ml-uv-red
> 
> QUOTE FROM THEIR OWN WEBSITE
> "NOTES: Not recommended for polycarbonate plastics or other PC-based plastics. Red coolant can permanently alter the color of some transparent plastics (hoses, reservoirs, etc.) over time. This is a common side effect among red coolants because of the necessary dye concentration to achieve proper color. If you wish to avoid this, another Koolance color or clear coolant is suggested."


----------



## Lareson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feznz*
> 
> your hazing did wipe off I can see this clearly in the pic.
> judi924 coolant has clearly penetrated the tubing100%
> 
> http://koolance.com/liq-702-liquid-coolant-bottle-high-performance-700ml-uv-red
> 
> QUOTE FROM THEIR OWN WEBSITE
> "NOTES: Not recommended for polycarbonate plastics or other PC-based plastics. Red coolant can permanently alter the color of some transparent plastics (hoses, reservoirs, etc.) over time. This is a common side effect among red coolants because of the necessary dye concentration to achieve proper color. If you wish to avoid this, another Koolance color or clear coolant is suggested."


Durelene is PVC, so this shouldn't affect mine. Polyvinyl chloride is completely different chemical makeup than polycarbonate. Also why I'm not using any block, res, or tubing that has polycarbonate, as I knew about the issues with red dye and it ahead of time. Like I said, the pink spots is just dried coolant, tubing itself just has some slight clear haze, no change in color.

Judi924, If you've been running your rig for 2 months with distilled water and what you added and mine has been running for over 1 month and our tubing look completely different with weeks apart, I'm starting to think that any biocide additives may be bad for Durelene.

I have no kill coils, no biocide additives, just the pre-mixed propylene glycol coolant from Koolance. I think I'm the 1st than I know of to run this combo of Koolance coolant and Durelene tubing. It would be great to know if someone else has used the same stuff for a longer period of time.


----------



## Fyrwulf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Because you can have a water cooling system without a coolant or pump?


Nobody sacrifices quality on the altar of cheapness when it comes to those two.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> I do kinda skim but I guess I expected far more hands on for sure buy this endorsements by now for the new Advanced Primochill. But you are right, Duraleen or Advanced Primochill seem to be ok based off the results here.


The problem is that some people only come here to complain or when something goes wrong, but when things are working the way they were suppose to you rarely here of it! I'm sure that if the new Primochill Advanced LRT was still causing problems, believe me we would have heard of it by now!


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lareson*
> 
> Durelene is PVC, so this shouldn't affect mine. Polyvinyl chloride is completely different chemical makeup than polycarbonate. Also why I'm not using any block, res, or tubing that has polycarbonate, as I knew about the issues with red dye and it ahead of time. Like I said, the pink spots is just dried coolant, tubing itself just has some slight clear haze, no change in color.
> 
> Not recommended for polycarbonate plastics or other PC-based plastics.
> 
> pvc in my book is a pc based plastic
> 
> A coolant recommended for pc use says in their own disclaimer has been tested and is not compatable with pc-based plastics I am rather sceptical about that.
> I am rather sceptical about koolance I am wondering if they have put coppersulphate or biocide in their mix. I actually think your pics show no sign of plasterisation but it is hard to tell. But I will say to me it looks likethe coolant it self it breaking down I have seen evidence of some coloured pc coolants/dyes breaking down and leaving a chalky substance blocking waterblocks.
> 
> I am using autmotive coolant and after 3 months no signs of anything amiss ie no clouding xspc pvc tube
> 
> on my last build 5 years ago on my q6600 I used again automotive coolant 2 years use, 3 in storage with coolant in completed loop to prevent corrosion. The water cooling loop looked as good as new. I have posted some pics a few pages back of the hard ware store el cheapo 10c a foot pvc tubing that has zero signs of clouding / plastrisation or mineral buildup
> I suspect because of the natural cycle of heating in automotive eleminates the need of any anti algae additives, unlike pc based purposes.
> I have had the Mayhems range recommended a few times as been tried and tested.
> Just my 2 cents:thumb:


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> The problem is that some people only come here to complain or when something goes wrong, but when things are working the way they were suppose to you rarely here of it! I'm sure that if the new Primochill Advanced LRT was still causing problems, believe me we would have heard of it by now!


Well I think I'll try the Primochill Advanced then. I was thinking red... How does the red look in person... Is it a vivid superman red?


----------



## Bucshman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Well I think I'll try the Primochill Advanced then. I was thinking red... How does the red look in person... Is it a vivid superman red?


The bloodshed red looks great in person, not superman red but a darker red.

I have been running it for over a month using distilled and Liquid Utopia (clear) no problems what so ever.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucshman*
> 
> The bloodshed red looks great in person, not superman red but a darker red.
> 
> I have been running it for over a month using distilled and Liquid Utopia (clear) no problems what so ever.


Oh so it is a bit of a dark translucent red? I was not sure if it was opaque or not. What is liquid utopia?


----------



## Bucshman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Oh so it is a bit of a dark translucent red? I was not sure if it was opaque or not. What is liquid utopia?


Liquid Utopia is a product made by Primochill, it's a biocide and corrosion inhibitor in one.


----------



## Lareson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feznz*
> 
> Not recommended for polycarbonate plastics or other PC-based plastics.
> 
> pvc in my book is a pc based plastic
> 
> A coolant recommended for pc use says in their own disclaimer has been tested and is not compatable with pc-based plastics I am rather sceptical about that.
> I am rather sceptical about koolance I am wondering if they have put coppersulphate or biocide in their mix. I actually think your pics show no sign of plasterisation but it is hard to tell. But I will say to me it looks likethe coolant it self it breaking down I have seen evidence of some coloured pc coolants/dyes breaking down and leaving a chalky substance blocking waterblocks.
> 
> I am using autmotive coolant and after 3 months no signs of anything amiss ie no clouding xspc pvc tube
> 
> on my last build 5 years ago on my q6600 I used again automotive coolant 2 years use, 3 in storage with coolant in completed loop to prevent corrosion. The water cooling loop looked as good as new. I have posted some pics a few pages back of the hard ware store el cheapo 10c a foot pvc tubing that has zero signs of clouding / plastrisation or mineral buildup
> I suspect because of the natural cycle of heating in automotive eleminates the need of any anti algae additives, unlike pc based purposes.
> I have had the Mayhems range recommended a few times as been tried and tested.
> Just my 2 cents


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_chloride - PVC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycarbonate - PC

They are 2 completely difference substances with 2 completely different chemical makeups.

Reason why they don't recommend using the coolant with polycarbonate is that propylene glycol can affect it slightly and having the red in it causes the affect areas to be stained. I have a friend who has been running Koolance coolant for over a year with Tygon black tubing and that's why he recommended me that coolant.

https://koolance.com/files/products/manuals/msds_koolance_liq-702.pdf - Here's the spec sheet for the coolant I'm using. It's mainly distilled water and propylene glycol, nothing else to it. The 3% of additives could be anything from colorant to corrosion inhibitors. I doubt though that they put copper sulphate in it as they would of had to put it as an ingredient due to the semi-toxic nature of it.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fyrwulf*
> 
> Nobody sacrifices quality on the altar of cheapness when it comes to those two.


I saw a guy yelling about how people are always cheaping out on the brand of distilled water that they are using, a while ago.


----------



## Fyrwulf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I saw a guy yelling about how people are always cheaping out on the brand of distilled water that they are using, a while ago.


How does that work? Any DI or distilled water you get at a pharmacy is going to be the same thing, because there are specs for that sort of thing. At least, that's the case in America, I've been told it's not at all the case in the UK.


----------



## judi924

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lareson*
> 
> Judi924, If you've been running your rig for 2 months with distilled water and what you added and mine has been running for over 1 month and our tubing look completely different with weeks apart, I'm starting to think that any biocide additives may be bad for Durelene.
> 
> I have no kill coils, no biocide additives, just the pre-mixed propylene glycol coolant from Koolance. I think I'm the 1st than I know of to run this combo of Koolance coolant and Durelene tubing. It would be great to know if someone else has used the same stuff for a longer period of time.


I read a thread a while ago that I can't find now where a guy was testing different coolants. He was running Distilled water & PT nuke for nearly a year without any problems. I'm coming to the conclusion that my problems are due to the kill coils.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feznz*
> 
> I am still yet to see someone contribute that when using glycol based coolant with no biocide, have clouding/plasterisation or coolant discolorisation maybe there is something in that? To be truthful I also havn't read all 230+ pages.
> I would do this get a cup put 5 drops of PT Nuke in it + water, I know that's way too much but this will give you an idea over night what will happen in 1-2 weeks or months. just I wouldn't like the idea of pulling down a rig if you can replicate a test in a cup and predict the out come
> And please post your findings:thumb:


I'm not sure if that's a good indication. I had Dead Water + Kill Coil + Distilled water sitting in a Durelene tube for 2+ months and it looks like brand new tubing. The running water through the tube seems to play a major role in the plasticizing.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fyrwulf*
> 
> How does that work? Any DI or distilled water you get at a pharmacy is going to be the same thing, because there are specs for that sort of thing. At least, that's the case in America, I've been told it's not at all the case in the UK.


Well, you can get DI water at grocery stores and places like that too. Not all of it is great.


----------



## Lareson

I know there's been issues with combining nickle and silver and also wondering if using it in combination with distilled water and a biocide in a way causes some issues. Judi924, you said you had nickle barbs, right? I think that's your issue there. The silver from the kill coil and the nickle barbs are reacting and causing your tubing to look like that. I say take out the kill coil, leave everything else like it is, redo the tubing and check back with us. It just kind of clicked with me when I was reading about the issues with nickle and silver.

I notice that EK and Koolance said avoid putting in a silver kill coil in your loop in combination with nickle blocks due to running the risk of damaging the nickle plating, so wondering if its the same thing, but instead its your fittings.


----------



## nleksan

I wonder, how many people are using the Cu-Sulphate PTNuke and how many are using PTNuke-PHN, and what percentage of each have had plasticizer issues??

Also, the Primochill Advanced LRT has been good to me; I really like it, especially the fact that the black from the fittings that rubs off onto the white of the tubing can easily be removed! The tubing IS NOTICEABLY STIFFER THAN the PRO LRT, but it holds bends extremely well.
Also, the stuff seems to be slightly different in terms of tolerance than the Primoflex Pro LRT, as when I went to put the first bit of tubing over a Bitspower Compression Barb, it simply wouldn't go! It took me like 5 minutes to get it on there! This is compared to the Pro LRT which did take some effort but not so much that I was worried about breaking something! I HONESTLY THOUGHT that I had gotten a box with the wrong size marked on it, because it felt like trying to put 7/16x3/4 tubing on a 1/2x3/4 compression!

Anyway, here are a couple pics of the "PrimoFlex Advanced LRT 1/2x3/4 WHITE Tubing" in my rig... I know it isn't finished yet; I am having a B!TCH of a time with the last run of tubing, from the EK Multioption Res X2 top outlet to the XSPC Single Bay Res Inlet, as my fill-port is in-between the two so a nice bend is almost impossible (I have at least a half-dozen cuts of tubing that were off by just a few millimeters or so!)....


----------



## Fyrwulf

Why would anyone put uncoated nickle in their loops? It makes me wonder how many of these so-called plasticizer issues are really due to galvanic corrosion.


----------



## zGunBLADEz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *judi924*
> 
> Wanted to post my experience. I believe it's much the same as others who have contributed to this thread.
> My GPU took a dump so I had to RMA it and decided to redo the tubing in my loop. I have Durelene tubing ordered from Sidewinder Comps off Amazon Marketplace.
> These are pictures after two months using brand new waterblocks (Heatkiller GPU & Raystorm CPU), brand new bitspower Nickel barbs, & a brand new XSPC RX360 rad.
> Coolant is just Safeway Refreshe Distilled water w/Deadwater & 2 silver killcoils inside the reservoir.
> 
> This is the loop after I cut out the GPU lines & was draining the water out. Notice the yellow tint.
> 
> 
> More pictures of the used tubing.
> 
> 
> And some pics of the used tubing compared to brand new.
> 
> Also something interesting to note, the following pic is part of the line where I had a drain valve installed. There was no running water though this part of the line. To the right you can see the T-splitter and this tubing went strait down to the bottom of the case. The coolant flows straight through the T-splitter back into the reservoir/pump.
> 
> 
> I didn't have the patience to order some other tubing and see how it works, my rig was down for nearly 3 wks waiting for the GPU RMA. I rebuilt the loop with the same Duralene tubing and this time am using H20 brand Distilled water w/PT Nuke & same 2 silver kill coils. I know that recent posts have suggested the additives are causing the plasticizer but I'll see how this goes.


OH THE GREENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im using only killcoil and distilled water.. Bought also from sidewinders...

can you check if you can clean the pipe like i did with my sample?

Thanks for the feedback..


----------



## Neo Zuko

I'm just planning on bloodshot red advanced Primochill, distilled water, and PT Nuke PTH. All copper, brass, a bit of stainless steel, that's it, I also avoided silver coils and plated products.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Well I think I'll try the Primochill Advanced then. I was thinking red... How does the red look in person... Is it a vivid superman red?


The blood shed red is made from real blood, nah just messing with you but really it's extremely close to the color of blood as one can get! Seriously!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucshman*
> 
> Liquid Utopia is a product made by Primochill, it's a biocide and corrosion inhibitor in one.


Can you recommend it or is it not proven?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lareson*
> 
> I know there's been issues with combining nickle and silver and also wondering if using it in combination with distilled water and a biocide in a way causes some issues. Judi924, you said you had nickle barbs, right? I think that's your issue there. The silver from the kill coil and the nickle barbs are reacting and causing your tubing to look like that. I say take out the kill coil, leave everything else like it is, redo the tubing and check back with us. It just kind of clicked with me when I was reading about the issues with nickle and silver.
> 
> I notice that EK and Koolance said avoid putting in a silver kill coil in your loop in combination with nickle blocks due to running the risk of damaging the nickle plating, so wondering if its the same thing, but instead its your fittings.


On my last loop I had running on my old computer build I used a combination of Bitspower compression fittings, some nickel plated and two black powder coated. The real shocker was the nickel coming off my GPU, CPU and nickel plated Bitspower compression fittings had corrosion on them.

However my powder coated compressions had absolutely nothing wrong with them, I just wiped off the contamination sludge like I was washing dishes!


----------



## SilkyJohnson

Ive combed through the thread and I havent seen anyone mention the tygon E-1000 that PPCS sells. Seeing as my durelene is clouding up over time I was wondering what you guys thought about the E-1000. It says is plasticizer free and while its a little pricey honestly im tired of testing tubing. My durelene looked fine for about a month and slowly lost its shine and clouded up. I think is plasticizer but I wont know for sure until I tear the loop down to move it to the 900D.


----------



## Bucshman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> Can you recommend it or is it not proven?


I have only been using it for going on 6 weeks, so far I am happy with it. As for being proven, I believe it was introduced by PrimoChill sometime around 2007. One thing I have learned here at OCN is that sometimes good-great products don't get talked about that much, it's when someone has issues that they get put on blast. After doing a search and not finding any negative reviews or comments about it I decided to give it a shot. Will keep you guys updated, at 2 months I am going to pull apart everything and check my EK Nickel blocks to see how they are holding up.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lareson*
> 
> I know there's been issues with combining nickle and silver and also wondering if using it in combination with distilled water and a biocide in a way causes some issues. Judi924, you said you had nickle barbs, right? I think that's your issue there. The silver from the kill coil and the nickle barbs are reacting and causing your tubing to look like that. I say take out the kill coil, leave everything else like it is, redo the tubing and check back with us. It just kind of clicked with me when I was reading about the issues with nickle and silver.
> 
> I notice that EK and Koolance said avoid putting in a silver kill coil in your loop in combination with nickle blocks due to running the risk of damaging the nickle plating, so wondering if its the same thing, but instead its your fittings.


*THIS^^* silver and nickel cause galvanic corrosion









*BUT*-in the past i have used a SKC with nickel plated BP comps and not had problems with the nickel flaking.

I personally do not use SKCs anymore, i use Mayhems coolants that have all the necessary inhibitors/biocides included-they work great.

It all depends on the quality of the nickel plating-a little imperfection/hole the size of a few microns can lead to eventual flaking of the nickel coating.

Hence the problem that EK had with their earlier nickel blocks.

That information was afforded to me by the platers that i sent an EK HF supreme that needed de plating.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1265630/new-ek-blocks/310 (Post 319)

I had even toyed with the idea of silver plating the block (same price as nickel plating), but i opted for good old copper-block is working perfectly-excellent temps (OT







)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> I wonder, how many people are using the Cu-Sulphate PTNuke and how many are using PTNuke-PHN, and what percentage of each have had plasticizer issues??
> 
> Also, the Primochill Advanced LRT has been good to me; I really like it, especially the fact that the black from the fittings that rubs off onto the white of the tubing can easily be removed! The tubing IS NOTICEABLY STIFFER THAN the PRO LRT, but it holds bends extremely well.
> Also, the stuff seems to be slightly different in terms of tolerance than the Primoflex Pro LRT, as when I went to put the first bit of tubing over a Bitspower Compression Barb, it simply wouldn't go! It took me like 5 minutes to get it on there! This is compared to the Pro LRT which did take some effort but not so much that I was worried about breaking something! I HONESTLY THOUGHT that I had gotten a box with the wrong size marked on it, because it felt like trying to put 7/16x3/4 tubing on a 1/2x3/4 compression!
> 
> Anyway, here are a couple pics of the "PrimoFlex Advanced LRT 1/2x3/4 WHITE Tubing" in my rig... I know it isn't finished yet; I am having a B!TCH of a time with the last run of tubing, from the EK Multioption Res X2 top outlet to the XSPC Single Bay Res Inlet, as my fill-port is in-between the two so a nice bend is almost impossible (I have at least a half-dozen cuts of tubing that were off by just a few millimeters or so!)....


Have a pot of boiling water or a kettle next to you, dip the end of the tubing in for a while (till is becomes more pliable) then you can overcome the problems encountered with placing stiff tubing over barbs etc









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fyrwulf*
> 
> Why would anyone put uncoated nickle in their loops? It makes me wonder how many of these so-called plasticizer issues are really due to galvanic corrosion.


No such thing as 'un coated' nickel-nickel is used as a coating itself









Nearly 99% of fittings are brass, coated with nickel etc.


----------



## Whalemeal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SilkyJohnson*
> 
> Ive combed through the thread and I havent seen anyone mention the tygon E-1000 that PPCS sells. Seeing as my durelene is clouding up over time I was wondering what you guys thought about the E-1000. It says is plasticizer free and while its a little pricey honestly im tired of testing tubing. My durelene looked fine for about a month and slowly lost its shine and clouded up. I think is plasticizer but I wont know for sure until I tear the loop down to move it to the 900D.


I'm also moving my stuff to 900D 

Anyway, I was quite scared of this plasticizer problem when I first did my WC setup and I tried several plasticizer free tubes. (Namely Tygon 2375 and E-1000). 2375 was pretty stiff and hard. I was able to work on them but it was not an easy job to bend them without kinks. E-1000, however, is on the opposite side in terms of durometer. E-1000 has pretty much rubber-like feeling. You can see the warning in PPCS that it may slip out of compression fittings. I didn't have any issue of slipping out and tubes seemed to be well locked by compression rings. (3/8 ID, 5/8 OD)

Overall, I liked E-1000 better than 2375. It is very easy to work on and it is clearer than 2375. 2375 seems to be more solid and provide better chemical resistance though. I gotta see how E-1000 fares in long term though. It's been only a few months since I put them.


----------



## SilkyJohnson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Whalemeal*
> 
> I'm also moving my stuff to 900D
> 
> Anyway, I was quite scared of this plasticizer problem when I first did my WC setup and I tried several plasticizer free tubes. (Namely Tygon 2375 and E-1000). 2375 was pretty stiff and hard. I was able to work on them but it was not an easy job to bend them without kinks. E-1000, however, is on the opposite side in terms of durometer. E-1000 has pretty much rubber-like feeling. You can see the warning in PPCS that it may slip out of compression fittings. I didn't have any issue of slipping out and tubes seemed to be well locked by compression rings. (3/8 ID, 5/8 OD)
> 
> Overall, I liked E-1000 better than 2375. It is very easy to work on and it is clearer than 2375. 2375 seems to be more solid and provide better chemical resistance though. I gotta see how E-1000 fares in long term though. It's been only a few months since I put them.


Nice. Thanks for the response. Suppose I'll go ahead and try it as well. I use bits power compression fittings though so hopefully they grip well enough. A few months is longer than my durelene made it. 3 weeks and it was cloudy .


----------



## Fyrwulf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> No such thing as 'un coated' nickel-nickel is used as a coating itself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nearly 99% of fittings are brass, coated with nickel etc.


Coated as in paint or powder. And people need to start refusing to buy any cooling product that allows anything other than copper, brass, or chrome to come into contact with water.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucshman*
> 
> I have only been using it for going on 6 weeks, so far I am happy with it. As for being proven, I believe it was introduced by PrimoChill sometime around 2007. One thing I have learned here at OCN is that sometimes good-great products don't get talked about that much, it's when someone has issues that they get put on blast. After doing a search and not finding any negative reviews or comments about it I decided to give it a shot. Will keep you guys updated, at 2 months I am going to pull apart everything and check my EK Nickel blocks to see how they are holding up.


You might find valuable information by just checking the PH level of the distilled water in your loop, this will tell you if you have an acidic (1-5.5 yellow), neutral (6,7, 8 green) and/or alkaline (9-35 purple) chemical reaction! Pool supply store should give you some testing strips for free, dip it in the reservoir and see what colors you get!


----------



## judi924

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> *THIS^^* silver and nickel cause galvanic corrosion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nearly 99% of fittings are brass, coated with nickel etc.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lareson*
> 
> I know there's been issues with combining nickle and silver and also wondering if using it in combination with distilled water and a biocide in a way causes some issues. Judi924, you said you had nickle barbs, right? I think that's your issue there. The silver from the kill coil and the nickle barbs are reacting and causing your tubing to look like that. I say take out the kill coil, leave everything else like it is, redo the tubing and check back with us. It just kind of clicked with me when I was reading about the issues with nickle and silver.
> 
> I notice that EK and Koolance said avoid putting in a silver kill coil in your loop in combination with nickle blocks due to running the risk of damaging the nickle plating, so wondering if its the same thing, but instead its your fittings.


I fished out my two kill coils from my reservoir but they've been in the loop since I re did everything about 4 days ago. I don't have enough tubing ATM to redo the entire loop. Is 4 days a long enough time to cause this type of reaction?


----------



## Lareson

It shouldn't. It's usually a long-term process, like over a month or so like what you had, but with the silver out of the loop, it should stabilize, but if you want to be on even safer side, change out the water just to make sure.

I'd do something like weekly checks on the tubing to see if its doing it again.


----------



## Bucshman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Systemlord*
> 
> You might find valuable information by just checking the PH level of the distilled water in your loop, this will tell you if you have an acidic (1-5.5 yellow), neutral (6,7, 8 green) and/or alkaline (9-35 purple) chemical reaction! Pool supply store should give you some testing strips for free, dip it in the reservoir and see what colors you get!


It should be neutral (6-8 green) right?


----------



## zGunBLADEz

So my fittings barbs and now compression fittings are interacting with the silvercoil?
Because my rads and blocks are copper...


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucshman*
> 
> It should be neutral (6-8 green) right?


*Mayhems Extreme Biocide Instructions*
Quote:


> Dip the test strip in your water cooling loop for 1 second before adding biocide. Check on the the other side of this card to match the color. Use 1 drop of biocide at a time and recheck with new PH test strip. PH 6 to 8 is perfect for water cooling. Anything over or under this, can cause problems with plating or dyes.


Well to be exact 6-8 is the range for a healthy PH level.


----------



## Fyrwulf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zGunBLADEz*
> 
> So my fittings barbs and now compression fittings are interacting with the silvercoil?
> Because my rads and blocks are copper...


There are tons of variables involved with galvanic corrosion. But, to be safe, I would do the following:

1) Remove the silver
2) Flush your system thoroughly (three times, 24 hour runs)
3) Replace your tubing
4) Run SysPrep through your reconstructed loop
5) Use only high quality DI water for about a week
6) Add new dye, concentrate, premix, etc if you want


----------



## Wookieelover

Just want to add my experience with tubing.
Ran some Durelene tubing with Mayhems X1 pre mix and cheap DI water. Ran for almost 3 months and had zero plasticizer or clouding. Water temps also got very hot.
I did flush the rad with water and bi carb prior to use.

Currently running same coolant mix with Primochill Advanced blood red tubing.
End of week one and tubing still clear.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fyrwulf*
> 
> There are tons of variables involved with galvanic corrosion. But, to be safe, I would do the following:
> 
> 1) Remove the silver
> 2) Flush your system thoroughly (three times, 24 hour runs)
> 3) Replace your tubing
> 4) Run SysPrep through your reconstructed loop
> 5) Use only high quality DI water for about a week
> 6) Add new dye, concentrate, premix, etc if you want


I agree with some of what you have said as a possible method of lessening galvanic corrosion EXCEPT the use of sysprep.

TBH all one has to do to avoid the problem is to stop mixing non compatible metals

http://www.engineersedge.com/galvanic_capatability.htm

I wont bother to go into details again (anyone interested in more info can use the search facility in this thread).

Suffice to say imo, a chemical that has such abrasive properties has a very good chance of causing problems within your loop-even if the effects are not initially visible.

But galvanic corrosion is but one of many variables that are possibly responsible for the increase at which plasticizer problems appear

Please remember that plasticizer occurs on its own even without any of the added variables of a watercooling loop.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Does mixing silver with nickel cause galvanic corrosion? they seem fairly far apart in reactivity.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Does mixing silver with nickel cause galvanic corrosion? they seem fairly far apart in reactivity.


Whilst that may be-i can categorically say yes, it does (not to be confused with uncategorically







)

But many others have *NOT SUFFERED* from it, having used the combination you have enquired about.

Koolance state very clearly not to mix silver with any of their nickel products, and come to think of it, so do EK.

For example go here:

http://koolance.com/qd3-mg4-quick-disconnect-no-spill-coupling-male-threaded-g-1-4

and read a bit down-that having been said, it may well be down to the quality of their nickel plating, or they are trying to sell their particular brand of coolant









Their Nickel plating is never going to be as good as getting fittings etc plated at a professional outfit-its simply costs too much.

Ive seen pics of nickel fittings that have supposedly suffered corrosion from the use of a SKC in the loop.


----------



## nighthawk-73

mani almost pulled the trigger on that stuff, thanks for posting!


----------



## nighthawk-73

I am going to try mayhems and the hose they recommend

i also love the color selection


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nighthawk-73*
> 
> I am going to try mayhems and the hose they recommend
> 
> i also love the color selection


Yes thats what ive been doing for the longest while now-it eliminates the need for added biocides and a SKC, and so far ive had no problems what so ever with my tubing on the scale that i used to have in the past.

As for the colour selection that you mentioned-you are 100% correct there -dont forget that you can also 'play' with the various colours and come up with various shades of your own









Capping it all off-Mick (Mr Mayhem lol) is very approachable and will reply to any queries that you may have


----------



## Lee17

I just check my loop pH with dip sticks and I got around 5, maybe 6. That is totally normal, I guess, while using distilled water since the CO2 goes into the water to make H2CO3, HCO3 (-) and CO3 (2-) so the pH drop around 6 normally, maybe lower but not that much.

I will undo my loop soon. I will see how me feser tubing have hold that. I'm not worry about my block since it isn't a very strong acid and it should do any damaged.

Lee17


----------



## Qu1ckset

Well i have to say primochill primoflex advanced tubing is amazing, ran it for two months and had zero plasticizer and clouding, but destroyed my tubing by adding Mayham's Pink UV dye which stained my tubing pretty bad.









** Me draining the Pink UV dye out my loop **









** From left to right primochill primoflex advanced Crystal Clear> Stained Crystal Clear> Bloodshed Red **









** Computer Re-Tubed **


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Well i have to say primochill primoflex advanced tubing is amazing, ran it for two months and had zero plasticizer and clouding, but destroyed my tubing by adding Mayham's Pink UV dye which stained my tubing pretty bad.


1)Mayhems Pink dyes does that to tubing-it says so in the thread

2) Using mayhems coolants seems to reduce if not eliminate tubing problems

Im looking forward to hearing from users that have just run the 'standard' SKC /Biocide and Distilled water


----------



## Fickle Pickle

I'm happy to report that after 7 months of usage, my black XSPC high flex tubing is perfectly fine with no signs of plasticizing.


----------



## Lareson

Yeah, I know red and pink dyes have to have a higher concentration of pigment to get the proper color, so yeah, tube staining will happen.

I really hope that we can help push along the idea that having a silver kill coil and biocide in distilled water isn't always the best solution and as its now showing, it may cause some serious issues. I know the pre-mixes and dyes have came a long way from what they used to be, so people shouldn't be afraid to use them.

I'm really glad Mayhems came into the picture with their dyes. Not only do they produce awesome results, but they seemed to have solved a majority of the problems that previous dye brands had.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wookieelover*
> 
> Just want to add my experience with tubing.
> Ran some Durelene tubing with Mayhems X1 pre mix and cheap DI water. Ran for almost 3 months and had zero plasticizer or clouding. Water temps also got very hot.
> I did flush the rad with water and bi carb prior to use.
> 
> Currently running same coolant mix with Primochill Advanced blood red tubing.
> End of week one and tubing still clear.


I've tried to abuse the Primochill Primoflex Advanced tubing and each time have failed, so now I'm quitting and am just going to use it. Ordered a few retail packages of 10 feet since Primochill got it right this time around!


----------



## Neo Zuko

I am using the advanced on my first wc build too, I just need to decided color... Red, Black, White, Clear, Blue...


----------



## feznz

I just wanted to share some observations I have made and one issue that hasn't been discussed as far as I am aware.
This is my first water block and as you can see why I don't use Plexi/acrylic in my pc at all The cracks are evident this cost me a motherboard
Why did this happen? I can not say for 100% certain it was either a sudden temperature change, coolant attacking the acrylic or overtighten fitting. Either way I personally stay clear of any acrylic and use acetal as garanteed safe alternative.



I thought I would show my tubing after 3 months use I did notice a slight browning to the tube but nothing to be concerned about. But the interest part was where mainly in the windowed area of the side panel. I used 50/50 mix of car antifreeze.



I wanted red tubing and decided to run Materkleer UV reactive red tubing with a lower dose of 30/70 mix of antifreeze as wanted the benefits of the very small gains (1-2degrees) of using pure water+biocide.
I used the red tubing because of now dilute antifeeze is pinkish.
I don't want to go into the water/biocide or coolant PC/car debate but simply I personally would never run any coolant loop without any anticorrsion additives.

Now for my new theory, I work in a tannery and chemicals we use are very corrosive I can tell you that even stainless steel will rust in this envoroment as you can see in following pics.
I am showing a 12 year old pneumatic pvc air line that has gone completly brown but in the control panel it is still completly clear.







As you can see that is still the same air line just one difference the control cabinet is closed ie no UV light exposure, as you can see the surrounding controls are also showing corrosion meaning that this pvc air line has been exposed to a range of chemicals.

I cannot find any data on UV resistance on any PC based tubing but I think it is a plausable theory that this is why some tubing is changing colour.
I have read post of friends using same roll ot tubing and same coolant/biocide but one has tubing problems one has no problems.
I believe the popularity of UV reactive tubing/coolants is promoting us to put in UV lights thus creating a nothing more than sun tanning saloon inside our cases.
This is only one issue amongst many that could lead to discoloured tubing.
I live in New Zealand so we natually know about the hole in the ozone and the effects of UV light exposure on many different materials.



Just another pic of my latest build


----------



## NinjaSushi2

So ALTR, Durelene, or Masterkleer? Clear tubing btw.


----------



## Lareson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NinjaSushi2*
> 
> So ALTR, Durelene, or Masterkleer? Clear tubing btw.


What's the rest of your setup looking like? It may help deciding on what kind you'd like.

I'm about to make a list that I think tubing should go together with. _This does not reflect anyone else's opinion or results in this thread but my own. Take it as a suggestion._

Durelene ---> Only distilled water and Mayhem's Dyes OR a pre-mixed coolant like Koolance or EK - no other additives - use this one if you have nickel in your loop (blocks, fittings, barbs)

Masterklear ---> Distilled water, biocide and silver kill coil - make sure there is zero nickel in your loop for this one due to the silver kill coil, can cause galvanic corrosion and ruin nickel plating

ALTR ----> I'm still not sure about this one as it's too new, but should work with similar cooling setups as the 2 above, either a dye mix or biocide/kill coil combo, without any issues

Remember, if you have any nickel in your loop, whether it's your barbs, fittings or blocks, DO NOT USE A SILVER KILL COIL! It can cause galvanic corrosion and ruin the nickel plating!


----------



## Holynacho

So got the PrimoFlex Advanced, and was wondering how many people are running the SysPrep that comes with it. After seeing "Use at your own risk" on the bottle, and after reading through this thread, seems kinda 50/50 between people using it or people not trusting it. Anyone know what it is exactly, personally I don't like putting mystery substances into my new loop.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Holynacho*
> 
> So got the PrimoFlex Advanced, and was wondering how many people are running the SysPrep that comes with it. After seeing "Use at your own risk" on the bottle, and after reading through this thread, seems kinda 50/50 between people using it or people not trusting it. Anyone know what it is exactly, personally I don't like putting mystery substances into my new loop.


I have it and i refuse to run it through my system, if you look up my more in-depth posts, you will understand why

-that having been said, i know that a certain person heavily involved in the manufacturing side of wc products will be testing it very soon, and no doubt will post their findings in the forum somewhere- i cant say more atm.

This point of view is in no way linked to the New Adv Primochill tubing that seems to be holding up well so far (no complaints per say as yet)

-still early(ish) in the life time of the tubing as a product, but no news is usually good news.


----------



## Bucshman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Holynacho*
> 
> So got the PrimoFlex Advanced, and was wondering how many people are running the SysPrep that comes with it. After seeing "Use at your own risk" on the bottle, and after reading through this thread, seems kinda 50/50 between people using it or people not trusting it. Anyone know what it is exactly, personally I don't like putting mystery substances into my new loop.


"Use at your own risk" is pretty much on the label of every water cooling part and fluid. Lots of things can go wrong when you are mixing metals and chemicals in a loop, companies don't want to be responsible for your mistakes. As for the SysPrep, I used it in my new loop a few months ago, and I have no problems or issues to report.


----------



## Holynacho

Thanks for the help, Rep for both. Still waiting on water blocks for my video cards so have some time to decide.


----------



## Crooksy

Has anyone reported any plasticizer issues with LRT advanced yet?


----------



## 1rkrage

what's the general consensus on the XSPC High Flex tubes so far?

I've been running on Durelene for the past 10 months so far and I think I need to plan on doing a flush soon. Don't think I have issues with durelene yet ; wouldn't know until I replace them at least. But I need to see what my options are.


----------



## khemist

Just a heads up, i drained my loop the other day (mayhems pastel white) after running it for a few weeks and it was as clear as the day i installed it - tygon E1000.


----------



## Wookieelover

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crooksy*
> 
> Has anyone reported any plasticizer issues with LRT advanced yet?


Non yet mate.
My LRT Advanced Blood Red tubing is still looking like brand new. Over a month now.
XT-1 Oil Black + Cheap Distilled


----------



## nleksan

Liking the Advanced LRT 1/2x3/4 so far! not as flexible as Pro LRT, but it just "feels" like it is much better quality.... It does hold nice bends very well, though!!!


----------



## kkorky

*Ok European water cooling people !!*

-your wait is over, for those of you who want to get the ADV Primochill tubing, you can now buy it here :

http://www.ekwb.com/shop/accessories/tubing.html?limit=all (scroll down)

*EKWB/PRIMOCHILL* you owe me for doing your advertising job for you-try reading here *properly* some times









To the rest of the guys here, your wait has ended-have fun people, and please post feedback so that the community can see whats what with regards to its performance-it all helps and since its new tubing, the more info we get from actual users, the better.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feznz*
> 
> I just wanted to share some observations I have made and one issue that hasn't been discussed as far as I am aware.
> 
> 
> 
> Just another pic of my latest build


(i edited it so as to not take up unnecessary space)

Nice work sir-thanks very much for your effort much appreciated









+1 rep


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> *Ok European water cooling people !!*
> 
> Nice work sir-thanks very much for your effort much appreciated


Thanks I understand the edit this thread is getting out of control
BTW that is pic is my res-cpu-rad-gpu-rad-gpu-rad loop in my NZXT 820 case


----------



## markovian

i got primo 7/16 uv blue its been in for about 3 weeks still flawless i run distilled and maby 10% isoproply alcohol i will repost in the thread if i ever have any problem but i doubt it

iv rarly had any problems running this no ali clouding nothing ... when i ran pure distilled only i had clouding and small agi problems

the one who showed me this ... and all my water skills not pc related told me alcohol is the best way its never failed me ... this was in the rv buisness he uced vodka for antifreeze in potable water aka drinking water systems for the winter

iv also heared of running pure vodka works grate to never tried it but 40% alcohol and the rest pure water i cant see why it be to bad it may vap trew tubes at a minute rate but i doubt it


----------



## nleksan

Problem with IPA is that it can have adverse reactions with plastics (Plexiglass in particular, I believe), causing micro-fissures at first but eventually "eating away" at it. Same thing can happen to O-Rings with IPA in the loop; they dry out and can no longer effectively seal, causing leaks.

I'm certainly very glad you haven't had this problem, but I would definitely recommend STOPPING USING IT! If you want something to act as a Biocide as well as provide increased lubricity for the pumps AND provide a small boost to cooling potential, then look at adding RedLine Water Wetter. Been using it in my race/track cars for many years, and on my built, blown, and less-than-50%-original-parts 328Ci, it dropped temps at the track from around 235F to 208-211F during 10+lap runs staying very high in the rev-range (Redline is 8250rpm, swapped in a 6MT from '06 ZHP after having it cryo-treated and strengthened, and diff is a fully custom Quaife Many-Clutch 3.25:1 Limited Slip Diff with variable locking), which means not dropping below around 5200rpm for ~12-15min... That's running PURE DISTILLED WATER and 2x BOTTLES REDLINE WATER WETTER!!!

I figure if it can do that, then it is actually working to decrease the surface tension of the water, which is not something that is temperature dependent. Upon looking at the MSDS, it certainly can act as a Biocide too, lol. Oh, and I know that the surface tension is affected because it is so much easier to bleed when the WW is in the loop vs when it isn't; never get big bubbles with RL WW, the small bubbles don't turn into froth/foam, and the loop will bleed in less than half the time.
I haven't done any SCIENTIFIC comparisons between running DI + RL WW vs running DI + PTNuke-PHN, but I've seen the loop run with a 1.4C better Delta-T using an 85/15 Distilled/WW combination compared to Distilled/PTNuke-PHN.... It could be error on my part, the sensors*, etc, but I have done my best to rule that out.

*


Spoiler: Temp Sensors and Locations



2x Ambient Air Temp sensors (1 in front of the intake, the other 6ft away from the computer area), 2x Water Temp Sensors (1 after each radiator; I am going to add one to the reservoir still), 2x Case Temp Sensors (1x near HDD's in front, 1x above PSU in back), 4x Radiator Air Temp Sensors (2 per rad, one measuring air-in and one air-out), 1x Case Exhaust (measures the air coming out of the case to see difference vs air coming in). Not all are currently hooked up, as I need a Temp Sensor Readout that will allow me to hook up multiple sensors and that is available for purchase independent of anything else; currently I use an LCD Readout with 6x Temp Probe leads from an older case, BP H2O Temp Sensors, 2x Aquarium Temp Sensors (nice bc they have little suction cups), 2 XSPC ones, 2 FrozenCPU ones.... Also have a FLIR camera, but don't exact use that every day lol.
I also have temp sensors on the MB VRM's (one front, one rear), one HDD (it gets the least airflow), the pump base, and the Fan Controller's MOSFET/VRM area (to ensure that the heatsinks I added worked, and then I figured I'd just leave the Probe there).


----------



## wermad

Took the plunge on some primochill uv green (no green adv.) since it was cheap. Looking good so far. I asked a fellow member who bought some recently and he didn't have any plasticize. could be a good batch I guess so I bought some. amazon has the 10' for ~$9

edit: this uv green 3/8x5/8 is much better in terms of overall build quality. Its just a bit better and slight smaller (a good thing for my comps) compared to the crappy uv blue i had a few months ago in the same size.


----------



## 02ssei

Been running clear Primochill Advanced LRT since November 10th. Tore down my loop this week for a few changes and still have clear tubing. My mayhems pastel was settling in my drain tube, eliminated the low point drain tube to prevent my pastels from settling as i drain my loop BMW style from the top with a syringe and some tubing anyways. Tubing is still clear.


----------



## PapaSmurf6768

I've been running Advanced LRT too and mine is still pretty clear as well, definitely better than the Duralene I was using before. This tubing seems like a win for me, it's not as flexible as I would've liked but it looks great.


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> *Ok European water cooling people !!*
> 
> -your wait is over, for those of you who want to get the ADV Primochill tubing, you can now buy it here :
> 
> http://www.ekwb.com/shop/accessories/tubing.html?limit=all (scroll down)
> 
> ...
> 
> Nice work sir-thanks very much for your effort much appreciated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +1 rep


Thank you very much for the heads up on this!









I asked few days ago again Specialtech about this but unfortunately they still have no final day on when they will get it...

Still, its nice to see that European shops start (slowly) making advanced lrt available, so that we Europeans wont have to pay too much for postage fees.

Unfortunately EKWB has not available the 7/16-5/8 black, plus they dont seem to have the 10ft sealed packages available, which i really prefer...


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> Thank you very much for the heads up on this!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked few days ago again Specialtech about this but unfortunately they still have no final day on when they will get it...
> 
> Still, its nice to see that European shops start (slowly) making advanced lrt available, so that we Europeans wont have to pay too much for postage fees.
> 
> Unfortunately EKWB has not available the 7/16-5/8 black, plus they dont seem to have the 10ft sealed packages available, which i really prefer...


Contact them and ask for Niko, he should be able to help you









I have the clear tubing 7/16-5/8 which i got from the states, but i also want the black in the same measurements.


----------



## dr/owned

Just ordered some Tygon E-3603 tubing. Crazy expensive (1/2 ID 3/4 OD), but DEHP plasticizer free and a bit harder than E-1000 (A56 vs A40 durometer), so less likely to kink. Rated for medical use as well, which E-1000 isn't.
Quote:


> Saint Gobain is replacing TYGON R-3603 with TYGON E-3603 June 2013 SGPPL will stop production of all laboratory grade tubing containing DEHP and December 2013 will cease the sale of tubing containing DEHP


Really seems strange that almost no one is using non-DEHP Tygon. Seems vast majority is Primochill, Masterkleer, Duralene, etc.


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Contact them and ask for Niko, he should be able to help you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have the clear tubing 7/16-5/8 which i got from the states, but i also want the black in the same measurements.


Thanks


----------



## skyn3t

how things going around here? Is it *kkorky* still lying for you guys? better not cuz I'm about to 









J/k Guys, kkorky toke my place and told em get out LOL. bad kkorky bad kkorky.


enough for joking around. so how things going here, I haven't come here for wile. how ADV PRIMO tubing is holding. I need some data


----------



## ElGreco

Advanced LRT now available at specialtech:
http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Primochill-PrimoFlex-Advanced-LRT-38-ID---12-OD-10-13mm-Tubing--Clear-pid-17627.htmll

Unfortunately i cannot find other versions than this yet...


----------



## ea3ot

Bad link


----------



## bustacap22

.


----------



## jiJa

sadly just 13/10

try this folks:

specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Primochill-PrimoFlex-Advanced-LRT-38-ID---12-OD-10-13mm-Tubing--Clear-pid-17627.html


----------



## judi924

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *judi924*
> 
> Wanted to post my experience. I believe it's much the same as others who have contributed to this thread.
> My GPU took a dump so I had to RMA it and decided to redo the tubing in my loop. I have Durelene tubing ordered from Sidewinder Comps off Amazon Marketplace.
> These are pictures after two months using brand new waterblocks (Heatkiller GPU & Raystorm CPU), brand new bitspower Nickel barbs, & a brand new XSPC RX360 rad.
> Coolant is just Safeway Refreshe Distilled water w/Deadwater & 2 silver killcoils inside the reservoir.
> 
> This is the loop after I cut out the GPU lines & was draining the water out. Notice the yellow tint.
> 
> 
> More pictures of the used tubing.
> 
> 
> And some pics of the used tubing compared to brand new.
> 
> Also something interesting to note, the following pic is part of the line where I had a drain valve installed. There was no running water though this part of the line. To the right you can see the T-splitter and this tubing went strait down to the bottom of the case. The coolant flows straight through the T-splitter back into the reservoir/pump.
> 
> 
> I didn't have the patience to order some other tubing and see how it works, my rig was down for nearly 3 wks waiting for the GPU RMA. I rebuilt the loop with the same Duralene tubing and this time am using H20 brand Distilled water w/PT Nuke & same 2 silver kill coils. I know that recent posts have suggested the additives are causing the plasticizer but I'll see how this goes.





Wanted to update from my last post since I changed my loop. Many people were saying that yellowish haze I was getting was from the kill coils + nickel barbs. I had the barbs in the new loop for approx 4 days after I replaced all the tubing & put in Distilled water + PT Nuke + 2 Kill Coils. After suggestions from others here I fished out the Kill Coils from my reservoir (they had been in for about 4 days with the loop running) & have been running just PT Nuke + Distilled water for approx 7 wks (after removing kill coils). I took this pics today:


It appears that the yellowish haze is still there. Although it is not nearly as bad as it was when the kill coils were in there. I'm not to the point where I'm going to replace all the tubing again. The last WC tubing setup I replaced after approx 2 months. This tubing has not quite been in there that long.


----------



## ea3ot

Judi, the tube on the pics is Duralene??? Uffff


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> how things going around here? Is it *kkorky* still lying for you guys? better not cuz I'm about to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J/k Guys, kkorky toke my place and told em get out LOL. bad kkorky bad kkorky.
> 
> 
> enough for joking around. so how things going here, I haven't come here for wile. how ADV PRIMO tubing is holding. I need some data


Hey he's alive lol!









Where have you been ?

And ik you are joking (well at least i hope so







) who am i supposed to have been lying for ????


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Hey he's alive lol!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where have you been ?
> 
> I havr been busy with family, i haf to move to another state because of my work and you know we had to go throught a lot changes. Yeah man i was just mess with you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How things going around here? Any news from adv primo tubing ?
> 
> And ik you are joking (well at least i hope so
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) who am i supposed to have been lying for ????


----------



## judi924

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ea3ot*
> 
> Judi, the tube on the pics is Duralene??? Uffff


Yes, from Sidewinder


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ea3ot*
> 
> Bad link


http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Primochill-PrimoFlex-Advanced-LRT-38-ID---12-OD-10-13mm-Tubing--Clear-pid-17627.html


----------



## sticks435

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *judi924*
> 
> Yes, from Sidewinder


I have Duralene from Sidewinder also, but mine only looks like his new install and I've had it in for 9-10 months.


----------



## bustacap22

So I have looking at this thread for a few days now to determine which tubing to purchase. Yes, 1st timer in h20 here....with all the pics I have seen regarding clear tubing....I feel that I am leaning more towards Primochill Advance LTR Clear. Going to be using Mayhem X1 Blood Red. Any final thoughts on this....Pulling the trigger by this friday... Thanks.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sticks435*
> 
> I have Duralene from Sidewinder also, but mine only looks like his new install and I've had it in for 9-10 months.


Mine lasted only a month. Strangely, primochill lrt uv green is still holding perfectly! Could be old stock from many, many months ago since it could be a less desired color.


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bustacap22*
> 
> So I have looking at this thread for a few days now to determine which tubing to purchase. Yes, 1st timer in h20 here....with all the pics I have seen regarding clear tubing....I feel that I am leaning more towards Primochill Advance LTR Clear. Going to be using Mayhem X1 Blood Red. Any final thoughts on this....Pulling the trigger by this friday... Thanks.


I would personally get red hose and forget using a dyed coolant will discolor tube over time
But from what I know the selection you have made is an excellent choice you have made
I guess it is a personal preference.


----------



## bustacap22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feznz*
> 
> I would personally get red hose and forget using a dyed coolant will discolor tube over time
> But from what I know the selection you have made is an excellent choice you have made
> I guess it is a personal preference.


Am I also to assume that going with clear tubing is just like the silicon lottery???? You might get a bad batch that may start to fog up within weeks or might get a good batch and not fog up in several months....I mean I can handle the latter as I am OCD about cleanliness...I figure I will be cleaning loop within 8-10 months...I am just wanting tubing without plasticizer....I have yet to see or hear that Primochill Advance LTR fall into this category. I know that Tygon has plasticizer free tubing. If Tygon is my only choice then I will go with that....Thoughts????


----------



## Lareson

You'll be fine going with a clear tubing and distilled water and a Mayhem dye. Not a fan of the colored tubing, mainly because I've heard them having more issues with clouding and plasticizing. Haven't heard anything negative about the Mayhem dye, it's been all positive feedback and recommendations, and seems to last quite a long time!

Tubing that absorbs the color is not a big deal, since you won't notice it until you drain the loop and there's no adverse affects. I know tubing should be replaced every so often (1-2 years or problems start to appear) due to the possibility of cracking and "drying out" and the same thing with coolant, should be drained and replaced the same time as the tubing.

I know my Dad hasn't replaced the tubing on his Corsair Nautilus watercooler since he got it, think he got it back in 2006 and come to find out that he's been using a jug of drinking water to top it off every once in a while. May have to take a look at that for him so nothing goes wrong in the future.


----------



## kkorky

New Alphacool tubing-i cant vouch for it-i just got sent the update from Alphacool









http://www.alphacool.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=AlphaTube%20HF%2013/10%20%283/8%22ID%29&

It says that it is manufactured in the States, but obviously does not specify which manufacturer.


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bustacap22*
> 
> Am I also to assume that going with clear tubing is just like the silicon lottery???? You might get a bad batch that may start to fog up within weeks or might get a good batch and not fog up in several months....I mean I can handle the latter as I am OCD about cleanliness...I figure I will be cleaning loop within 8-10 months...I am just wanting tubing without plasticizer....I have yet to see or hear that Primochill Advance LTR fall into this category. I know that Tygon has plasticizer free tubing. If Tygon is my only choice then I will go with that....Thoughts????


I have heard that the Tygon plasticizer free is quite stiff but I have never tried it for myself.
I believe all clear tubing will show the Clouding or staining over time, where colored will hide it.
I believe there is so little about the true plasticization in the recent tubing i.e. chunks of tubing breaking off .
A little discoloration /clouding with clear tubing will probably be unavoidable over time and will probably be an aesthetic rather that of a actual problem.

I feel that I am leaning more towards Primochill Advance LTR Clear. Going to be using Mayhem X1 Blood Red.

I would give this as a good choice again I would use it

All comes down to personal preference I used Masterkleer red tubing because I watered down my coolant and wanted red hoses rather pink








water has the best thermal conductivity for coolant and too much glycol/coolant will slightly decrease the viscosity over water.
I have 3 rads and 3 water blocks on one loop with one pump so I paid much more attention to viscosity and thermal conductivity.
if it were 2 rads and 2 water blocks I wouldn't have worried about this.


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bustacap22*
> 
> Am I also to assume that going with clear tubing is just like the silicon lottery???? You might get a bad batch that may start to fog up within weeks or might get a good batch and not fog up in several months....I mean I can handle the latter as I am OCD about cleanliness...I figure I will be cleaning loop within 8-10 months...I am just wanting tubing without plasticizer....I have yet to see or hear that Primochill Advance LTR fall into this category. I know that Tygon has plasticizer free tubing. If Tygon is my only choice then I will go with that....Thoughts????


I currently use Mayhems X1 transparent and the old back primochill pro lrt. In about a month i intend to change the tube to Advanced lrt and use new mayhems x1 liquid.

I would recommend not to use mayhems x1 for more than 6 months and use the red advanced lrt tube with no additives.

By the way, mayhems ultra pure water with kill coil caused quite a galvanic corrosion to my silver shiny bitspower fittings in the past! I did not use galvanic corrosion inhibitors as i should!


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> By the way, mayhems ultra pure water with kill coil caused quite a galvanic corrosion to my silver shiny bitspower fittings in the past! I did not use galvanic corrosion inhibitors as i should!


i am sorry to have to say this but, im doing so, so you have the true facts-not to shoot you down









-Mayhem's couldnt have caused a Galvanic reaction(i e be directly responsible), plain and simple mixing of metals does that.

Various retailers such as Koolance and EKWB have warnings about the mixing of metals and the use of silver,
although, if you ask others on this forum, they will also tell you that poor plating is to blame-i tend to agree with them.

-using any liquid without inhibitors would give you the same result if you mix certain metals.

That is why you should use Mayhems pastels and or X1 if you are using Mayhems products-these both have inhibitors and need no additives.

The X1 as you said should be changed around every 6 months, wheras the Pastel, can easily (and safetly) be used for up to 2 yrs-my pastel has been running for over 6 months and there are no problems whatsoever-even with the cheap Mastercleer tubing that its running through.

A while back, i posted quite a good amount of information on galvanic corrosion, complete with links to charts showing different metal compatability-just use the search function in this thread to find it


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> i am sorry to have to say this but, im doing so, so you have the true facts-not to shoot you down
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Mayhem's couldnt have caused a Galvanic reaction(i e be directly responsible), plain and simple mixing of metals does that.
> quote]
> 
> I agree with this it is because you didn't use a corrosion inhibitor with your Mayhems ultra pure water
> but you did state that


----------



## bustacap22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> i am sorry to have to say this but, im doing so, so you have the true facts-not to shoot you down
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Mayhem's couldnt have caused a Galvanic reaction(i e be directly responsible), plain and simple mixing of metals does that.
> 
> Various retailers such as Koolance and EKWB have warnings about the mixing of metals and the use of silver,
> although, if you ask others on this forum, they will also tell you that poor plating is to blame-i tend to agree with them.
> 
> -using any liquid without inhibitors would give you the same result if you mix certain metals.
> 
> That is why you should use Mayhems pastels and or X1 if you are using Mayhems products-these both have inhibitors and need no additives.
> 
> The X1 as you said should be changed around every 6 months, wheras the Pastel, can easily (and safetly) be used for up to 2 yrs-my pastel has been running for over 6 months and there are no problems whatsoever-even with the cheap Mastercleer tubing that its running through.
> 
> A while back, i posted quite a good amount of information on galvanic corrosion, complete with links to charts showing different metal compatability-just use the search function in this thread to find it


Ok, then I guess I will be going with Primochill Advance LRT Clear tubing w/ Mayhem's Pastel Red.

EK Supremacy Acrylic/Nickel
EK 7970 Nickel-Plexi (2)
EK Bridge Parallel
XT45 420 rad
UT60 240 rad
ST30 120 rad
MCP35x
Bitspower 150 res
Bitspower Black Sparkle fittings.

Thoughts on these....Am I good to go????


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bustacap22*
> 
> Ok, then I guess I will be going with Primochill Advance LRT Clear tubing w/ Mayhem's Pastel Red.
> 
> EK Supremacy Acrylic/Nickel
> EK 7970 Nickel-Plexi (2)
> EK Bridge Parallel
> XT45 420 rad
> UT60 240 rad
> ST30 120 rad
> MCP35x
> Bitspower 150 res
> Bitspower Black Sparkle fittings.
> 
> Thoughts on these....Am I good to go????


No!

You need a case









Very nice choice of gear-, you be fine-enjoy putting it all together, and dont forget to share your end product with the community:

http://www.overclock.net/t/584302/ocn-water-cooling-club-and-picture-gallery

Im sure that people would like to see your pride and joy


----------



## bustacap22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> No!
> 
> You need a case
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very nice choice of gear-, you be fine-enjoy putting it all together, and dont forget to share your end product with the community:
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/584302/ocn-water-cooling-club-and-picture-gallery
> 
> Im sure that people would like to see your pride and joy


Yes, will do. Started to get pics together for a build log....recieved my Alphacool universal pump mount....Key word UNIVERSAL...Ya...I have to do some drilling to house my MCP35x pump w/heatsink/fan.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bustacap22*
> 
> Yes, will do. Started to get pics together for a build log....recieved my Alphacool universal pump mount....Key word UNIVERSAL...Ya...I have to do some drilling to house my MCP35x pump w/heatsink/fan.


Good luck with that bud

-wish i was you, but the wait for the gear for my new rig is going to take at least another month


----------



## nleksan

Very pleased with Primochill Advanced 1/2x3/4 in White! The tubing IS a bit stiffer than the Pro LRT, but the color of the tubing is absolutely perfect; the white is "pearl-like" in that it is somewhere between matte and glossy, and the color is indistinguishable between the various rolls from different boxes (retail boxes of 10ft + SysPrep) I have. It is a near perfect match for the Switch 810, and in fact it is almost the exact same color as BMW's "Alpine White" (as I found out by holding it up to my M3).

The only thing that's frustrated me is that I would no longer consider it "Low Turn Radius" tubing. It's great for making those beautiful long, sweeping bends like I have from my top rad to GPU block and from GPU block to bottom rad, but the tighter bends such as from my EK Multioption X2 150 Advanced Reservoir (top port) to the hodgepodge of fittings leading into my XSPC Single 5.25 Bay Res are extremely difficult. It was such a PITA that it held up my reassembling my loop for a couple weeks (well, that and I'm in the midst of a move) and the way I fixed it was to have a 90deg triple-rotary coming out of the top of the EK res and then the fittings for the XSPC res inlet are (from res outward) a Swiftech Lok-Seal Dual-Triple-Slot SLI Fitting (essentially a Male-Male D-Plug) then a Swiftech Lok-Seal Q-Block with a 45deg dual-rotary Bitspower comp attached to the fillport tubing (leading up to the top just above the window where there is a BP "Bulkhead" fill-port fitting, an XSPC extension, a Swiftech Extension, and a Monsoon Compression), then a 45deg dual-rotary Bitspower compression fitting. It's a lot of fittings and very bulky and ugly, but thankfully hidden from view. I just hope over time that it doesn't cause issues with the plexiglass reservoir threads :S

I would not hesitate to recommend this tubing, but I would also recommend that you strongly consider spending more on fittings, ideally Rotary Angled Adapters, to make it possible for you to run much straighter lines.
Also, ALWAYS fiddle with the fittings so that any curves are following the "natural" curve from the tubing (from having been coiled up), as it is far more flexible when bending it with the curve rather than trying to fight against it.

Anyway, that's my impression!


----------



## bustacap22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> Very pleased with Primochill Advanced 1/2x3/4 in White! The tubing IS a bit stiffer than the Pro LRT, but the color of the tubing is absolutely perfect; the white is "pearl-like" in that it is somewhere between matte and glossy, and the color is indistinguishable between the various rolls from different boxes (retail boxes of 10ft + SysPrep) I have. It is a near perfect match for the Switch 810, and in fact it is almost the exact same color as BMW's "Alpine White" (as I found out by holding it up to my M3).
> 
> The only thing that's frustrated me is that I would no longer consider it "Low Turn Radius" tubing. It's great for making those beautiful long, sweeping bends like I have from my top rad to GPU block and from GPU block to bottom rad, but the tighter bends such as from my EK Multioption X2 150 Advanced Reservoir (top port) to the hodgepodge of fittings leading into my XSPC Single 5.25 Bay Res are extremely difficult. It was such a PITA that it held up my reassembling my loop for a couple weeks (well, that and I'm in the midst of a move) and the way I fixed it was to have a 90deg triple-rotary coming out of the top of the EK res and then the fittings for the XSPC res inlet are (from res outward) a Swiftech Lok-Seal Dual-Triple-Slot SLI Fitting (essentially a Male-Male D-Plug) then a Swiftech Lok-Seal Q-Block with a 45deg dual-rotary Bitspower comp attached to the fillport tubing (leading up to the top just above the window where there is a BP "Bulkhead" fill-port fitting, an XSPC extension, a Swiftech Extension, and a Monsoon Compression), then a 45deg dual-rotary Bitspower compression fitting. It's a lot of fittings and very bulky and ugly, but thankfully hidden from view. I just hope over time that it doesn't cause issues with the plexiglass reservoir threads :S
> 
> I would not hesitate to recommend this tubing, but I would also recommend that you strongly consider spending more on fittings, ideally Rotary Angled Adapters, to make it possible for you to run much straighter lines.
> Also, ALWAYS fiddle with the fittings so that any curves are following the "natural" curve from the tubing (from having been coiled up), as it is far more flexible when bending it with the curve rather than trying to fight against it.
> 
> Anyway, that's my impression!


Ya, I am looking at my price cart for fittings....Its up there. Plus I know that I should get a little extra for those unforseen problems. Tubing, coolant, fittings, and cables and build should be good to go. I did end up getting the XT 420 rad, MCP35x, and those Bgear Blaster you think highly off. Was testing the Bgears RPM and all but 1 was running close to their 1800 rated rpm. The one was only running at 500rpm. Are you using y-splitter or PCB for your fan setup.


----------



## nleksan

That sounds like a great setup, although I am sorry to hear about the fan :S Possibly a bad unit...

I have my Bgears connected to my BitFenix Hydra Pro in 2 sets of 3 fans using 2 BitFenix Alchemy Sleeved 1x3pin-to-3x3pin Fan Splitters. It works great for me...

I really hope you get it sorted with the fan, although my money is on "bad luck" and it's a defective unit.... :/


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bustacap22*
> 
> Ok, then I guess I will be going with Primochill Advance LRT Clear tubing w/ Mayhem's Pastel Red.
> 
> EK Supremacy Acrylic/Nickel
> EK 7970 Nickel-Plexi (2)
> EK Bridge Parallel
> XT45 420 rad
> UT60 240 rad
> ST30 120 rad
> MCP35x
> Bitspower 150 res
> Bitspower Black Sparkle fittings.
> 
> Thoughts on these....Am I good to go????


http://www.overclock.net/t/915966/please-read-before-purchasing-ek-nickel-plated-blocks-update-revised-plating-info

I have no idea if this would applicable for you as are using Mayhem's Pastel Red with corrosion inhibitor and this seems to be one of those things some people experience tubing problems some don't same with nickel plating.
I personally steer clear of all nickel plating and acrylic
and use the plain copper/ acetyl alternative


only because this happened to me and I have read other people with acrylic reservoirs and blocks spontaneously cracking
PS I only lost my motherboard to this leak


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> i am sorry to have to say this but, im doing so, so you have the true facts-not to shoot you down
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Mayhem's couldnt have caused a Galvanic reaction(i e be directly responsible), plain and simple mixing of metals does that.
> 
> Various retailers such as Koolance and EKWB have warnings about the mixing of metals and the use of silver,
> although, if you ask others on this forum, they will also tell you that poor plating is to blame-i tend to agree with them.
> 
> -using any liquid without inhibitors would give you the same result if you mix certain metals.
> 
> That is why you should use Mayhems pastels and or X1 if you are using Mayhems products-these both have inhibitors and need no additives.
> 
> The X1 as you said should be changed around every 6 months, wheras the Pastel, can easily (and safetly) be used for up to 2 yrs-my pastel has been running for over 6 months and there are no problems whatsoever-even with the cheap Mastercleer tubing that its running through.
> 
> A while back, i posted quite a good amount of information on galvanic corrosion, complete with links to charts showing different metal compatability-just use the search function in this thread to find it


Hi there









You are absolutely right!









As I also mentioned







i should have used inhibitors in combination with Mayhems Ultra Pure Water. And to be more specific and clear about Mayhems product, Ultra Pure water even after 6 months of use only with a "few" (4 kill coils) in my 2.5 ltrs setup had a pH of about 7 and still virtually ZERO electrical conductivity. Its a fantastic product, really clean, but it still needs an inhibitor. Having read quite a few threads stating that really clear water and a kill coil is more than enough, i thought i was ok,... but i wasnt. So, to avoid all the fuss with extra inhibitors, i reverted to X1.

Pastel is highly recommended by Mayhems and this is what i intended to use in first place, until i read about .compatibility issues between the Pastel and the 8m spare primochill PRO LRT I had.
http://www.mayhems.co.uk/front/pastel.html#.UVZzu2thiSM
" _.Do not use Mayhems Pastel with Primochill tubing or Tygon tubing as Mayhems Pastel seems to react with it changing the colour of the tubing to a greenish colour. This is not the fault of Primochill, Tygon or Mayhems it is just a incompatibility issue. Pastel works fine with XSPC, Thermochill, Clear Flex, Masterclear and a few other brands._ "

Apart from that, i also read a review ( https://www.overclockerstech.com/mayhems-pastel-x1-roundup/all/1/ ) where the transparent Mayhems X1 had almost same cooling efficiency as the Ultra Pure Water had.

These 2 factors made me decide to use X1 and i am very happy with it for the time being.

I would recommend to our friend, to speak to Mayhems directly and ask if there are any compatibility issues between the new advanced lrt and pastel, because if there are, then imho the best solution would be Advanced LRT and X1 instead of Pastel

Note: As a side-note please allow me to say that Mayhems has provided me a fantastic after-sales support and i am very happy with them in total!


----------



## kkorky

Thank you for taking the time and the effort to give me some advice- +1 rep for your efforts.

I know Mick quite well, and i am in contact with him often (for various matters to do with wc)

- the reason i will be using Pastel with adv Primochill, is because i want to test the Primochill, and then provide Mick with feedback.

In fact-i say that if a person is using Mayhem's pastel, dont waste your money buying expensive tubing if your rig has only copper/brass fittings etc-you can use Mastercleer or Clearflex, they both do a very good job-no yellowing/plasticizer etc.

This is not my personal endorsement (which counts for zero anyway







) of those tubings, its just me giving my experience with them and Mayhem's pastel.

With regular distilled water and a SKC, they fail badly and suffer from severe problems.

Apart from pastel/Primochill adv, i will also be testing some other products of his, if i can twist his arm, but hes been helping me out very recently, and so i think, ill start on the Pastel/Primo adv testing, and not push my luck









I'll order some of the pure water and some dye a little later on-im thinking of not using a SKC at all to see what the result is.

It would be nice, if you could please post your findings with regards to the X1 and the adv tubing, id be very interested in seeing what happens.


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> ...
> 
> It would be nice, if you could please post your findings with regards to the X1 and the adv tubing, id be very interested in seeing what happens.


I would be glad to do so, but currently i still use my old Primochill LRT PRO Tube with X1. I just hope that in about a month i will find some time to replace my old PC PRO LRT with PC ADVANCED LRT and some fresh X1. So, i will have results no sooner than 7 months from now









Keep up the excellent job


----------



## ea3ot

Every day I'm a little more confused. I need to change the tube (Primochill Pro LRT) and the coolant. I bought Duralene to replace it but now I do not know if I should abandon this idea and buy the Advanced. The coolant I used with the LRT has two kill coils and Mayhems Dye. .Any suggestions please?


----------



## nleksan

My suggestion is to use the Pastel and ditch the Kill Coils. As a "man of science", specifically biochemistry (biochemical engineering), I honestly don't see Kill Coils having much of an effect at preventing growth in a loop. I believe that a lot of the "anti-microbial" effects that have been credited to Kill Coils in fact comes from the copper particles that leach into the water from blocks/rads, as copper is a very potent anti-microbial.
Also, Pastels contain biocide, so you can reduce your entire loop's "Galvanic Spread" (not the correct term; but what I mean is the difference between the greatest and lowest metals' Galvanic Index) simply by removing the silver. That SHOULD leave you with nothing but copper and brass (possibly some nickel plating?), which is ideal.

As for Primochill Advanced, it's great tubing, but see my post a few up, about working with it....


----------



## ea3ot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> My suggestion is to use the Pastel and ditch the Kill Coils. As a "man of science", specifically biochemistry (biochemical engineering), I honestly don't see Kill Coils having much of an effect at preventing growth in a loop. I believe that a lot of the "anti-microbial" effects that have been credited to Kill Coils in fact comes from the copper particles that leach into the water from blocks/rads, as copper is a very potent anti-microbial.
> Also, Pastels contain biocide, so you can reduce your entire loop's "Galvanic Spread" (not the correct term; but what I mean is the difference between the greatest and lowest metals' Galvanic Index) simply by removing the silver. That SHOULD leave you with nothing but copper and brass (possibly some nickel plating?), which is ideal.
> 
> As for Primochill Advanced, it's great tubing, but see my post a few up, about working with it....


Thanks for your opinion. Im reading you post-


----------



## ronquilent

Would you guys recommend Tygon E-1000 or Primochill Advance LTR Clear for a distilled water and I and H Dead Water loop? I don't plan to add any other additives to the loop whatsoever. Just white led lighting to illuminate everything so I want the tubing to be and stay as clear as possible.

Thanks!


----------



## Aliff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronquilent*
> 
> Would you guys recommend Tygon E-1000 or Primochill Advance LTR Clear for a distilled water and I and H Dead Water loop? I don't plan to add any other additives to the loop whatsoever. Just white led lighting to illuminate everything so I want the tubing to be and stay as clear as possible.
> 
> Thanks!


I had the E1000. Got plasticizer problem with it. Using dead water + silver.

Now bought the Advanced LTR but yet to install it.


----------



## ElGreco

Hi again,

As per @kkorky advice, I contacted EK guys to ask about the availability of *Primochill Advanced LRT Black 7/16-5/8 Tubing*:
http://www.ekwb.com/shop/accessories/tubing/tube-primochill-primoflextm-advanced-lrttm-11-1-15-9-mm-onyx-black.html

Their response to my enquiry was quite immediate stating the following:
"_We expect to have the tube in stock in middle of next week. From the beginning we will not have retail packaging, only by meters. In a month probably also retail packaging per 10 fft = 3m._"

Now, since I currently use the old Primochill LRT PRO Tube with my MORA3 Rad which is not the easiest rad to clean, I would prefer to get the 10ft retail package that also includes (as many in this forum have stated) the Primochill SysPrep liquid to use it for cleaning my MORA3 rad ONLY. I have quite a few nickel plated water-blocks in my system and I am really not comfortable to use Sysprep on the entire loop!

So, on a second question about the *Sysprep* to EK, their reply was:
"_... I cant confirm we will offer sysprep in our retail packaging. We haven't tested the product properly yet..., we may decide not to offer it just to be safe. Or offer it after we thoroughly test it_.'

Please allow me to say, that this was my first time I contacted directly EK and their response was instant and to the point which I consider quite professional


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ea3ot*
> 
> Every day I'm a little more confused. I need to change the tube (Primochill Pro LRT) and the coolant. I bought Duralene to replace it but now I do not know if I should abandon this idea and buy the Advanced. The coolant I used with the LRT has two kill coils and Mayhems Dye. .Any suggestions please?


I'm getting Durelene. I was going to go with Masterkleer but I want to try Durelene.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> My suggestion is to use the Pastel and ditch the Kill Coils. As a "man of science", specifically biochemistry (biochemical engineering), I honestly don't see Kill Coils having much of an effect at preventing growth in a loop. I believe that a lot of the "anti-microbial" effects that have been credited to Kill Coils in fact comes from the copper particles that leach into the water from blocks/rads, as copper is a very potent anti-microbial.
> Also, Pastels contain biocide, so you can reduce your entire loop's "Galvanic Spread" (not the correct term; but what I mean is the difference between the greatest and lowest metals' Galvanic Index) simply by removing the silver. That SHOULD leave you with nothing but copper and brass (possibly some nickel plating?), which is ideal.
> 
> As for Primochill Advanced, it's great tubing, but see my post a few up, about working with it....


Thanks.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronquilent*
> 
> Would you guys recommend Tygon E-1000 or Primochill Advance LTR Clear for a distilled water and I and H Dead Water loop? I don't plan to add any other additives to the loop whatsoever. Just white led lighting to illuminate everything so I want the tubing to be and stay as clear as possible.
> 
> Thanks!


Stay away from E-1000 and any of the Tygon beverage brand. You need a tubing with a relatively high temperature threshold. R3603 is good and Durelene is the cheaper form of it made for PCs. (Also made by Gobain who makes Tygon.)

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/othertubing.html


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> Very pleased with Primochill Advanced 1/2x3/4 in White! The tubing IS a bit stiffer than the Pro LRT, but the color of the tubing is absolutely perfect; the white is "pearl-like" in that it is somewhere between matte and glossy, and the color is indistinguishable between the various rolls from different boxes (retail boxes of 10ft + SysPrep) I have. It is a near perfect match for the Switch 810, and in fact it is almost the exact same color as BMW's "Alpine White" (as I found out by holding it up to my M3).
> 
> The only thing that's frustrated me is that I would no longer consider it "Low Turn Radius" tubing. It's great for making those beautiful long, sweeping bends like I have from my top rad to GPU block and from GPU block to bottom rad, but the tighter bends such as from my EK Multioption X2 150 Advanced Reservoir (top port) to the hodgepodge of fittings leading into my XSPC Single 5.25 Bay Res are extremely difficult. It was such a PITA that it held up my reassembling my loop for a couple weeks (well, that and I'm in the midst of a move) and the way I fixed it was to have a 90deg triple-rotary coming out of the top of the EK res and then the fittings for the XSPC res inlet are (from res outward) a Swiftech Lok-Seal Dual-Triple-Slot SLI Fitting (essentially a Male-Male D-Plug) then a Swiftech Lok-Seal Q-Block with a 45deg dual-rotary Bitspower comp attached to the fillport tubing (leading up to the top just above the window where there is a BP "Bulkhead" fill-port fitting, an XSPC extension, a Swiftech Extension, and a Monsoon Compression), then a 45deg dual-rotary Bitspower compression fitting. It's a lot of fittings and very bulky and ugly, but thankfully hidden from view. I just hope over time that it doesn't cause issues with the plexiglass reservoir threads :S
> 
> I would not hesitate to recommend this tubing, but I would also recommend that you strongly consider spending more on fittings, ideally Rotary Angled Adapters, to make it possible for you to run much straighter lines.
> Also, ALWAYS fiddle with the fittings so that any curves are following the "natural" curve from the tubing (from having been coiled up), as it is far more flexible when bending it with the curve rather than trying to fight against it.
> 
> Anyway, that's my impression!


Thanks for the feedback-any pictures of the tubing up close?

As for the 'following of the natural curve' that problem can be overcome with straight rotary fittings as well as the ones you previously mentioned

-thats what i use, and it makes routing the loop very easy.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> My suggestion is to use the Pastel and ditch the Kill Coils. As a "man of science", specifically biochemistry (biochemical engineering), I honestly don't see Kill Coils having much of an effect at preventing growth in a loop. I believe that a lot of the "anti-microbial" effects that have been credited to Kill Coils in fact comes from the copper particles that leach into the water from blocks/rads, as copper is a very potent anti-microbial.
> Also, Pastels contain biocide, so you can reduce your entire loop's "Galvanic Spread" (not the correct term; but what I mean is the difference between the greatest and lowest metals' Galvanic Index) simply by removing the silver. That SHOULD leave you with nothing but copper and brass (possibly some nickel plating?), which is ideal.
> 
> As for Primochill Advanced, it's great tubing, but see my post a few up, about working with it....


*THIS^^*

Not only because my friend is a man of science







, but merely because from first hand experience it works-want proof?

The picture below is 6 month + old MASTERCLEER (yes you read correctly) tubing that i ran in a test rig with Mayhem's UV Pastel white with Blue dye.

i just stripped it down, it used to run 24/7.



Judge for yourself the quality of the clarity 'shine''



I'm about to start work on a new Switch 810 rig, and this time i will be using Primochill ADV clear tubing-so i will reserve my opinion till i have something to go on.



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> Hi again,
> 
> As per @kkorky advice, I contacted EK guys to ask about the availability of *Primochill Advanced LRT Black 7/16-5/8 Tubing*:
> http://www.ekwb.com/shop/accessories/tubing/tube-primochill-primoflextm-advanced-lrttm-11-1-15-9-mm-onyx-black.html
> 
> Their response to my enquiry was quite immediate stating the following:
> "_We expect to have the tube in stock in middle of next week. From the beginning we will not have retail packaging, only by meters. In a month probably also retail packaging per 10 fft = 3m._"
> 
> Now, since I currently use the old Primochill LRT PRO Tube with my MORA3 Rad which is not the easiest rad to clean, I would prefer to get the 10ft retail package that also includes (as many in this forum have stated) the Primochill SysPrep liquid to use it for cleaning my MORA3 rad ONLY. I have quite a few nickel plated water-blocks in my system and I am really not comfortable to use Sysprep on the entire loop!
> 
> So, on a second question about the *Sysprep* to EK, their reply was:
> "_... I cant confirm we will offer sysprep in our retail packaging. We haven't tested the product properly yet..., we may decide not to offer it just to be safe. Or offer it after we thoroughly test it_.'
> 
> Please allow me to say, that this was my first time I contacted directly EK and their response was instant and to the point which I consider quite professional


I would'nt use Sys prep in any part of your loop-i, and others have laid out the reasons in this thread(look it up in the thread -sry im just too lazy atm to go through it all again







)

- it has also been analysed by someone much more learned than myself here in Europe-i cannot provide you with any information atm

-all i can say is that this is 1) not a hatchet job, and 2) nor critisism of Primochill ADV-in fact the feedback so far on the tubing is great









There are other makes of Sys prep type products-all of them i would stay away from


----------



## Furball Zen

Ok, so is PrimoChill still having a problem or not? I have brand new 3/8"x5/8" LRT from Jab-tech.com (not 2 weeks old) and within HOURS of running a Sysprep solution after a quick rinse with distilled water, i started getting cloudy tubing. I had to tear the loop apart and the longer it sat dry the whiter the tubing got. I have it back together now and about 75% of the cloudiness is gone, but one portion refuses to even match the rest of the loop. Ironically the 7/16"x5/8" i have on my Swiftech GPU bridge is crystal clear after over 15 hours running the Sysprep.

I would like to say that the more flexible stuff they made 5 years ago never had this problem, was easy to turn into small radii and flexed well over larger fittings. Wish they still made it cause i would trade the shiny exterior for a clear interior.



Here you can see that it can be scraped off



7/16"



3/8" (note the blue tint is from my desk lamp, its just chalky white like the first two pics)


----------



## Cocosalsa

Had a leak and decided to take apart my loop and noticed the tubing had gone yellowish. Its the newer advance primochill tubing. :/

Parts in the loop
-2 XSPC 240 rads
-D5 pump
-XSPC dual bay res
-XSPC raystrom block
-XSPC razor block
-Primochill Advance LRT tubing
-Mayhems Pastel raspberry purple

Had this running since mid Feburary of this year


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furball Zen*
> 
> Ok, so is PrimoChill still having a problem or not? I have brand new 3/8"x5/8" LRT from Jab-tech.com (not 2 weeks old) and within HOURS of running a Sysprep solution after a quick rinse with distilled water, i started getting cloudy tubing. I had to tear the loop apart and the longer it sat dry the whiter the tubing got. I have it back together now and about 75% of the cloudiness is gone, but one portion refuses to even match the rest of the loop. Ironically the 7/16"x5/8" i have on my Swiftech GPU bridge is crystal clear after over 15 hours running the Sysprep.
> 
> I would like to say that the more flexible stuff they made 5 years ago never had this problem, was easy to turn into small radii and flexed well over larger fittings. Wish they still made it cause i would trade the shiny exterior for a clear interior.


I have said *MANY* times-dont use the sysprep (use the search in this thread and look up sysprep)

-some have no problems with it, others do, either way such abrasive chemicals are dubious at best.

That having been said, you haven't given enough finer details as to the composition of your loop for anyone to make an educated guess

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cocosalsa*
> 
> Had a leak and decided to take apart my loop and noticed the tubing had gone yellowish. Its the newer advance primochill tubing. :/
> 
> Parts in the loop
> -2 XSPC 240 rads
> -D5 pump
> -XSPC dual bay res
> -XSPC raystrom block
> -XSPC razor block
> -Primochill Advance LRT tubing
> -Mayhems Pastel raspberry purple
> 
> Had this running since mid Feburary of this year


As much as i would like to 'bash' any faulty tubing-the yellowing in your tubing is perfectly normal-nothing out of the ordinary.

Looking at your picture i can still that the tubing has maintained somewhat of it;s shine, so the tubing seems fine to me-the yellowing may also been accelerated due to the colour Pastel you have been using, Pink etc and colours in that part of the colour spectrum tend to stain tubing more than other colours such as blue-so again, nothing to worry about i would say.

It would also help when seeking to find answers if you could provide info such as average loop temps, how long you run your pc etc, every little bit helps to gain a better picture, if not add info to ones mental database


----------



## skyn3t

just a bit of my 3cents







Primochill ADV from the pictures above looks klike Tygon R 3603 it has the same raze but i t light from where i look. and Durelene Tubing has a very slight raze that make it very unnoticeable. so my vote still go for Durelene. I may dump some cold water in all of you but the best clear tubing around is Durelene


----------



## crazymofo

I did some testing by myself, its not a perfect test environment but I did my best. Found some interesting findings that you all might be interested in









http://www.overclock.net/t/1380775/what-is-plasticizer/10


----------



## ea3ot

Removed yesterday from my pc. Primochill LRT tubes. ( one year of use)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/802/p1000783n.jpg/

The new Duralene tubes and added another D5. in serial . What a change.!! Coolant is Destlided Water+Mayhems Dye Deep Blue+ 2 kill coils

http://img209.imageshack.us/i/p1000794dj.jpg/
http://img838.imageshack.us/i/p1000795r.jpg/
http://img198.imageshack.us/i/p1000796q.jpg/
http://img341.imageshack.us/i/p1000797n.jpg/
http://img850.imageshack.us/i/p1000798i.jpg/
http://img842.imageshack.us/i/p1000799j.jpg/
http://img259.imageshack.us/i/p1000800y.jpg/
http://img402.imageshack.us/i/p1000801u.jpg/
http://img69.imageshack.us/i/p1000802zo.jpg/


----------



## kkorky

IMO 2 SKC for that setup is too much-get rid of one


----------



## ea3ot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> IMO 2 SKC for that setup is too much-get rid of one


Is ready for the graphic now.


----------



## Kriant

Took apart my loop today, been using primoflex UV Blue tubing since end of august 2012 - it's all white from the inside. Didn't have that problem with XSPC tubing. Going to go back to XSPC tubing now


----------



## Furball Zen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Furball Zen*
> 
> Ok, so is PrimoChill still having a problem or not? I have brand new 3/8"x5/8" LRT from Jab-tech.com (not 2 weeks old) and within HOURS of running a Sysprep solution after a quick rinse with distilled water, i started getting cloudy tubing. I had to tear the loop apart and the longer it sat dry the whiter the tubing got. I have it back together now and about 75% of the cloudiness is gone, but one portion refuses to even match the rest of the loop. Ironically the 7/16"x5/8" i have on my Swiftech GPU bridge is crystal clear after over 15 hours running the Sysprep.
> 
> I would like to say that the more flexible stuff they made 5 years ago never had this problem, was easy to turn into small radii and flexed well over larger fittings. Wish they still made it cause i would trade the shiny exterior for a clear interior.
> 
> 
> 
> I have said *MANY* times-dont use the sysprep (use the search in this thread and look up sysprep)
> 
> -some have no problems with it, others do, either way such abrasive chemicals are dubious at best.
> 
> That having been said, you haven't given enough finer details as to the composition of your loop for anyone to make an educated guess
Click to expand...

Dude, dont preach at me, this thread was followed from Bing results. Besides, all i had to do was supply a receipt and Primochill sent me new tubing.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furball Zen*
> 
> Dude, dont preach at me, this thread was followed from Bing results. Besides, all i had to do was supply a receipt and Primochill sent me new tubing.


Preach at you?? (you mean *to* you, dont you?)

Stop being so sensitive, and stop perceiving things for what they are not.

I have no desire to preach to anyone, im sorry if you see things that way









You come here asking questions, and then when you get a reply that you dont like or understand (you totally misunderstood the tone of the reply ), you get irrate?

Nice


----------



## Furball Zen

Saying "ive said MANY times...." implies that everyone posting here should know what your opinion is and that it should be taken as gospel. Hence, preaching.


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furball Zen*
> 
> Saying "ive said MANY times...." implies that everyone posting here should know what your opinion is and that it should be taken as gospel. Hence, preaching.


In your litttle world sure it does.

Actually im not the only one who has said the same about sysprep( if you had taken the time to use the search function, you would verify that), but others who contribute to the thread couldnt be bothered to reply to your question since the issue has been addressed *many* times,

i should have done the same-oh well we live and learn









im done with you and your false impressions-this has gone way OT.


----------



## RavageTheEarth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furball Zen*
> 
> Saying "ive said MANY times...." implies that everyone posting here should know what your opinion is and that it should be taken as gospel. Hence, preaching.


Soooooo...... nice drum set! I have about 9 guitars myself. Lets jam


----------



## Bucshman

I used Sysprep in my loop back in December. I am adding another radiator and changing cases, as we speak, and I was surprised on how clean the inside of the blocks look. I figured I would have to do some cleaning to them before reinstalling them, but they look almost brand new to me. Not sure if the Sysprep helped at all, but I will be using it again.
I'm using Advanced LTR and no signs of plasticizer either. Running distilled and Liquid Utopia.


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> ...
> Also, the Primochill Advanced LRT has been good to me; I really like it, especially the fact that the black from the fittings that rubs off onto the white of the tubing can easily be removed! The tubing IS NOTICEABLY STIFFER THAN the PRO LRT, but it holds bends extremely well.
> Also, the stuff seems to be slightly different in terms of tolerance than the Primoflex Pro LRT, as when I went to put the first bit of tubing over a Bitspower Compression Barb, it simply wouldn't go! It took me like 5 minutes to get it on there! This is compared to the Pro LRT which did take some effort but not so much that I was worried about breaking something! I HONESTLY THOUGHT that I had gotten a box with the wrong size marked on it, because it felt like trying to put 7/16x3/4 tubing on a 1/2x3/4 compression!
> ...


Hi,

I just got my Primochill Advanced LRT Black from Specialtech and compared it to my unused old Primochill PRO LRT Black. I cannot see any difference regarding stiffness, while it was quite easy to fit the 7/16-5/8 ADVANED tube even in my 1/2 inch BP Barb fitting. Even in my BP 7/16-5/8 compression fitting the new advanced lrt was very easily with no extra effort installed. The only difference i noticed is that the ADVANCED LRT has slightly smoother surface than the old PRO LRT.

Even specialtech site says:
"Please Note : Primochill Advanced Tubing is Exceptionally tight on Fittings. We recommend dipping the end of the tubing in warm / hot water for a few seconds to make installation easier."
http://specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Primochill-PrimoFlex-Advanced-LRT-716-ID---58-OD-11-16mm-Tubing--Onyx-Black-pid-17691.html

...which is not my case!

So, my experience is completely oposite from what @nleksan describes above. The guys @specialtech are excellent professionals and i believe they sent me the right stuff. Still, i dont get, why my ADVANCED LRT is not that tight or stiff? Any of you ADVANCED LRT owners, have you noticed the stiffness difference?

Thanks...


----------



## McDoney

My advanced LRTs required heating in water and strenght to fit on my Koolance 16/10 fittings. Without heating it would of nearly been impossible.


----------



## kizwan

My advanced LRT 7/16" ID 5/8" OD can slide in to my XSPC & Monsoon 7/16" ID 5/8" OD compression fittings with little effort. I don't think mine will easily slide in to 1/2" fittings though.


----------



## Edge3903

HIya all. I am new to the WC community. I was read a lot of this thread, and I do have few questions for everyone here. First let me start off by given a list of the parts that I am going to be using in the build.

Case: NZXT Switch 810
CPU Block: RayStorm
GPU Block: Heatkiller GPU-X³ 680 or 780 ver.
Radiator: Alphacool NeXxos XT45 360 Full Copper in the top in Push/Pull
Radiator: Alphacool NeXxos UT60 240 Full Copper in the bottom in Push/Pull
Reservoir: Monsoon Series 2 D5 Premium Dual Bay Reservoir - Red
Pump: XSPC D5 Vario Pump

Here is where my questions start. What I have listed OK together? I have been that people have used the wrong parts together, and have had big issues. Second, I really don't want to use dye, so I am wanting to go with colored tubing. The tubing I was going to go with PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT Tubing 7/16 x 5/8" OD - Bloodshed Red. It has been a few months now and I haven't heard of any says bad things about the new Adv. LRT tubing like they did with the PRO LRT tubing. But if I had to use something else beside just distilled water I was thinking about using Mayhem's Pastel Red or X1. Third, for fitting are the Bitspower Premium G1/4" Black Matte High Flow Compression Fitting ok with this set up? Last, when it comes to Silver Kill Coil or PT Nuke or is there something else out there that works just as good? I have seen that some people think that the Kill Coil is some type of chemical reaction into tubing; however I have not read anything that definitively answering this question....I would also like to thank everyone that has contributed to this thread. It a great resource for everyone who is having issues with tubing problems.


----------



## nleksan

Your setup looks good, although as a fellow Switch water cooler, I'd recommend going with the XT45 420 in the top (quite a bit more surface area than a 360, actually it's even more than a 480!), or an XSPC EX420 is also an excellent choice for a top radiator. Both fit P-P no problem. For the bottom radiator, I'd recommend the UT60 over the XT45, as you can fit the thicker rad easily (fits with P-P using 120x38mm fans + 20mm-thick Phobya shrouds with room to spare) and it offers more cooling capability.

The Primochill Advanced has been nothing but good for me, in the White color. Recently re-did a friend's loop, in which he uses Gigabyte Orange dye from Mayhem, switching from Duralene which had plasticized and stained after less than a month, to Primochill Advanced clear, and after 2 weeks it has zero staining or plasticizer leaching (looks BRAND new!).

Also, if you're not set on the D5 + D5 Bay Res, you might consider the MCP35X... It's my favorite of all the pumps: compact (1/4th the size of the D5), comes with the absolute best top pre-installed, no need for mod kits or "dress-up" kits or aftermarket tops, it's PWM controlled so it will be virtually silent (I have never had mine go above 50%, even under 100% load on all 12 Threads for my CPU and 100% on my GPU at the same time; and I use very aggressive PWM profile), and a single MCP35X will be able to pump at a higher flow-rate through a more complex loop than a D5, due to the increased head pressure.
I seriously DO NOT understand people saying that the MCP35X is loud... I have two, mounted to an XSPC Single Bay res via Bitspower 90deg Single-Rotary Adapter and Male-Male Coupler (so it is NOT "decoupled" from the case), and there is zero noise as I sit here with my head 3ft from the case (it's sitting on my second desk to the right of me) with the side panels off. My friend, with the Gigabyte Orange loop, has the Koolance dual-DDC single-bay res with 2x MCP35X pumps in it (I had three so I gave him one so he could use both pump spots; what a good friend I am







), and the only time you can hear the pumps on his computer, which is quieter to begin with (he uses 10x Cougar 120mm 1800rpm fans P-P on his EX360 and UT60 240 rads and 3x Cougar 140mm 1500rpm case fans; I use 6x Bgears Blaster 140mm P-P on EX420, 4x Koolance FAN-12025HBK 2600rpm P-P on my UT60 currently although I also have FAN-12038HBK for it as well, 3x NZXT RF-FX140LB 2000rpm 140mm case fans for front intake/interior HDD Cage, Scythe Slipstream 1900rpm 110CFM for rear fan as intake to feed top rad, Delta 80x25mm 3800rpm fan hanging from the top rad's interior aka push fans' fan grill via single zip tie to cool front-side MB VRM's, an 80x15mm 3000rpm 33cfm fan mounted to the MCP35X2-Heatsink keeping the pumps at a constant ~23-25C max, and until I figure out a more elegant solution I have a 120x38mm steel and aluminum 120V AC 4000rpm ~190CFM fan blowing directly onto the motherboard rear VRM plates which have pure-copper BGA RAM-Sinks attached via Fujipoly's thinnest Thermal Tape the 18W/mK kind). Needless to say, my rig can get nice and loud! Fortunately, every single fan is hooked up to my BitFenix Hydra Pro via BitFenix Alchemy sleeved 1x3pin to 3x3pin splitters, Phobya 1x3pin-to-4x3pin sleeved splitters, and a few custom-made and sleeved 1x4pin/3pin to 2x/3x/4x 3/4pin splitters...
With all the fans turned down to as low as they go (730rpm for Bgears, 1250rpm for Koolance, 815rpm for Scythe, 1300rpm for Delta, 1125rpm for 80x15mm) and the AC fan unplugged, everything is completely silent except for a slight "whooshing" of air. ZERO PUMP NOISE!!!!


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kizwan*
> 
> My advanced LRT 7/16" ID 5/8" OD can slide in to my XSPC & Monsoon 7/16" ID 5/8" OD compression fittings with little effort. I don't think mine will easily slide in to 1/2" fittings though.


Could you please check the 1/2 barb option as well and let me know?

Thanks...


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *McDoney*
> 
> My advanced LRTs required heating in water and strenght to fit on my Koolance 16/10 fittings. Without heating it would of nearly been impossible.


Sorry, but could you please clarify the exact size of your advanced lrt tube and the koolance fitting you used?
Thanks!


----------



## Edge3903

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> Your setup looks good, although as a fellow Switch water cooler, I'd recommend going with the XT45 420 in the top (quite a bit more surface area than a 360, actually it's even more than a 480!), or an XSPC EX420 is also an excellent choice for a top radiator. Both fit P-P no problem. For the bottom radiator, I'd recommend the UT60 over the XT45, as you can fit the thicker rad easily (fits with P-P using 120x38mm fans + 20mm-thick Phobya shrouds with room to spare) and it offers more cooling capability.
> 
> The Primochill Advanced has been nothing but good for me, in the White color. Recently re-did a friend's loop, in which he uses Gigabyte Orange dye from Mayhem, switching from Duralene which had plasticized and stained after less than a month, to Primochill Advanced clear, and after 2 weeks it has zero staining or plasticizer leaching (looks BRAND new!).
> 
> Also, if you're not set on the D5 + D5 Bay Res, you might consider the MCP35X... It's my favorite of all the pumps: compact (1/4th the size of the D5), comes with the absolute best top pre-installed, no need for mod kits or "dress-up" kits or aftermarket tops, it's PWM controlled so it will be virtually silent (I have never had mine go above 50%, even under 100% load on all 12 Threads for my CPU and 100% on my GPU at the same time; and I use very aggressive PWM profile), and a single MCP35X will be able to pump at a higher flow-rate through a more complex loop than a D5, due to the increased head pressure.
> I seriously DO NOT understand people saying that the MCP35X is loud... I have two, mounted to an XSPC Single Bay res via Bitspower 90deg Single-Rotary Adapter and Male-Male Coupler (so it is NOT "decoupled" from the case), and there is zero noise as I sit here with my head 3ft from the case (it's sitting on my second desk to the right of me) with the side panels off. My friend, with the Gigabyte Orange loop, has the Koolance dual-DDC single-bay res with 2x MCP35X pumps in it (I had three so I gave him one so he could use both pump spots; what a good friend I am
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), and the only time you can hear the pumps on his computer, which is quieter to begin with (he uses 10x Cougar 120mm 1800rpm fans P-P on his EX360 and UT60 240 rads and 3x Cougar 140mm 1500rpm case fans; I use 6x Bgears Blaster 140mm P-P on EX420, 4x Koolance FAN-12025HBK 2600rpm P-P on my UT60 currently although I also have FAN-12038HBK for it as well, 3x NZXT RF-FX140LB 2000rpm 140mm case fans for front intake/interior HDD Cage, Scythe Slipstream 1900rpm 110CFM for rear fan as intake to feed top rad, Delta 80x25mm 3800rpm fan hanging from the top rad's interior aka push fans' fan grill via single zip tie to cool front-side MB VRM's, an 80x15mm 3000rpm 33cfm fan mounted to the MCP35X2-Heatsink keeping the pumps at a constant ~23-25C max, and until I figure out a more elegant solution I have a 120x38mm steel and aluminum 120V AC 4000rpm ~190CFM fan blowing directly onto the motherboard rear VRM plates which have pure-copper BGA RAM-Sinks attached via Fujipoly's thinnest Thermal Tape the 18W/mK kind). Needless to say, my rig can get nice and loud! Fortunately, every single fan is hooked up to my BitFenix Hydra Pro via BitFenix Alchemy sleeved 1x3pin to 3x3pin splitters, Phobya 1x3pin-to-4x3pin sleeved splitters, and a few custom-made and sleeved 1x4pin/3pin to 2x/3x/4x 3/4pin splitters...
> With all the fans turned down to as low as they go (730rpm for Bgears, 1250rpm for Koolance, 815rpm for Scythe, 1300rpm for Delta, 1125rpm for 80x15mm) and the AC fan unplugged, everything is completely silent except for a slight "whooshing" of air. ZERO PUMP NOISE!!!!


Thanks for the advice. Do have a pix of your XT45 420 in the 810? If so, can I see what it looks like? Yeah, the UT60 240 is the rad that I was going to use in the bottom in P/P. I am hopping that the new Adv LRT tubing can hold up. Does anyone that is using the Bloodshed Red tubing have some pix of it in there rig? An yes I am almost set in the D5 + D5 Bay Res combo...sorry. Here is the last one....what is the consensus on additives to the distilled water? Killcoil, Pt Nuke???


----------



## nleksan

I actually use the EX420, not the XT45, but the difference in thickness is only a small amount (7mm or so)....




D5 is not a bad choice of pump at all, it really comes down to preference in the end. Plus with a bay res, you won't have to worry about buying a new top or a mod kit, wasn't thinking about that









As for additives, I would advice PT-Nuke PHN (pH Neutral) and NO silver "kill coil". It's kept my water/loop crystal clear, and one little bottle is enough for years and years (literally; I only needed about 4 drops for my loop, but I gave it an extra 2 just in case). It seems to act as a pH buffer as well, not just being pH Neutral itself, as my water went from a pH of 6.75 to 7.001 after just 72hrs of it circulating! After a month, it was 6.999. It has evened out at 7 +/- .002, which is darn impressive!


----------



## Edge3903

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> I actually use the EX420, not the XT45, but the difference in thickness is only a small amount (7mm or so)....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> D5 is not a bad choice of pump at all, it really comes down to preference in the end. Plus with a bay res, you won't have to worry about buying a new top or a mod kit, wasn't thinking about that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for additives, I would advice PT-Nuke PHN (pH Neutral) and NO silver "kill coil". It's kept my water/loop crystal clear, and one little bottle is enough for years and years (literally; I only needed about 4 drops for my loop, but I gave it an extra 2 just in case). It seems to act as a pH buffer as well, not just being pH Neutral itself, as my water went from a pH of 6.75 to 7.001 after just 72hrs of it circulating! After a month, it was 6.999. It has evened out at 7 +/- .002, which is darn impressive!


What is a better...ex420 or xt420? What did u use to come off the rad with fitting wise? Can u give a good pic of the fill port, and how u did it? I have been looking for someone that has that done to a 810 for a long time. What parts did u use as well. Does anyone else have a say in the additive or tubing ATM? There isn't much talk going on any more. Is everyone just so happy with the new adv tubing that there isn't much to say anymore?


----------



## kizwan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElGreco*
> 
> Could you please check the 1/2 barb option as well and let me know?
> 
> Thanks...


I don't have one to try though. Sorry.


----------



## Muskaos

So, I have a loop in an 800D that I refreshed in August last year, used for about a month, and then it sat for 8.5 months while I was deployed.
I took it all apart yesterday, and was surprised to note that, while some of the tubing had some plasticizer build up on it, it wasn't near as bad as I thought it was. The tubing was a combination of reused and newly installed, with the reuse stuff coming from when I first built the machine in 2011, and I used some new tubing when I put two GTX 680s in the machine last year.

The fittings were all clean on the inside, the CPU block was slightly corroded, but otherwise free of any build up, and the reservoir was fairly clear, as well (pictures to follow when able.)
Tubing is all Tygon (exact type will be noted when I can dig up my receipt), fluid was Koolance clear LIQ-705.

I was expecting the worst, because it had sat for a long time, but if I hadn' t needed to take the loop apart to grab the two video cards and CPU block I had in it, I could have ran it as is for a few more months.


----------



## ElGreco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kizwan*
> 
> I don't have one to try though. Sorry.


No problem, thanks for your feedback


----------



## nleksan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Edge3903*
> 
> What is a better...ex420 or xt420? What did u use to come off the rad with fitting wise? Can u give a good pic of the fill port, and how u did it? I have been looking for someone that has that done to a 810 for a long time. What parts did u use as well. Does anyone else have a say in the additive or tubing ATM? There isn't much talk going on any more. Is everyone just so happy with the new adv tubing that there isn't much to say anymore?


Here are the best pics I have at the moment:





However, I am NOT using that Swiftech 4-way fitting block, as it was a POS and I hate it and it's terrible. I switched to a Primochill acrylic "T" fitting instead, which is infinitely better.

As for which is the better radiator... The EX420 will have more cooling power if you don't mind using stronger fans (Bgears Blasters 140mm 1800rpm 103cfm/3.5mmH2O), and it is slimmer; however, 19 split fins per inch (i.e. 38 fins per linear inch between tubes) simply can't be beat for surface area! The XT45 will work better sub-1200rpm and is thicker, and while it is just ~10-12fpi, this is made up for in part by the use of full copper fins/tubes/tanks.

Priceerformance, I'd buy the EX420 again if I had to pick, and stick with the 6x Bgears Blasters in Push-Pull. I would highly recommend the Phobya 140x140x7mm Radiator Fan Shrouds/Decouplers, for use between the bottom/inside fans (Push Fans) and radiator, as it reduces noise a bit and increases performance a bit.


----------



## kingchris

Im using primoflex clear 1/2 id 3/4 od, using demineralised water and primochill liquid utopia, and i got this.



its also inside my white tubing, this has only happened since i put the clear in.


----------



## Im Batman

Does anyone have a quick reference to this problem happening severely to the standard tubing provided with the XSPC Raystorm kits?


----------



## Im Batman

Does anyone have a quick reference to this problem happening severely to the standard tubing provided with the XSPC Raystorm kits?


----------



## Im Batman

Does anyone have a quick reference to this problem happening severely to the standard tubing provided with the XSPC Raystorm kits?


----------



## Carniflex

Is the plasticizer usually white ? As when I did my loop last night I noticed some stuff building up in my blocks and res, but its not white but more light pink hue. Seems like plastic but very fragile if you scratch it with finger nail. Granted I'm running car antifreeze (red) so perhaps that is capable of coloring the plasticizer ?

Edit: Tubing is some no-name RED UV active 10mm OD 8 mm ID from aquatuning.


----------



## Im Batman

Really sorry for the double posting, wont use phone again.


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Carniflex*
> 
> Is the plasticizer usually white ? As when I did my loop last night I noticed some stuff building up in my blocks and res, but its not white but more light pink hue. Seems like plastic but very fragile if you scratch it with finger nail. Granted I'm running car antifreeze (red) so perhaps that is capable of coloring the plasticizer ?
> 
> Edit: Tubing is some no-name RED UV active 10mm OD 8 mm ID from aquatuning.


evaporated antifreeze will leave a deposit like you described


----------



## Carniflex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feznz*
> 
> evaporated antifreeze will leave a deposit like you described


Hm thats odd, as the loop has not been empty. Granted there was some air in the res so perhaps it was somekind of reaction with that.


----------



## Wookieelover

Loop is 3+months old
New 1/2 Primochill advanced lrt "blood red"
Cheap Demineralised water
Mayhems Oil Black concentrate

Zero clouding
Zero deposits
Looks like the day i filled the system.

Water temps never been past 33c.


----------



## TG_bigboss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wookieelover*
> 
> Loop is 3+months old
> New 1/2 Primochill advanced lrt "blood red"
> Cheap Demineralised water
> Mayhems Oil Black concentrate
> 
> Zero clouding
> Zero deposits
> Looks like the day i filled the system.
> 
> Water temps never been past 33c.


i just bought some from preformance pc because the pro version i had was having the white film issue. I was fed up with it. It started to come into my res. I could see small specs of white in the water. What is the best way to clean out the rads and blocks? i want to make sure none of it is left when i use my new tubing.


----------



## Systemlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TG_bigboss*
> 
> i just bought some from preformance pc because the pro version i had was having the white film issue. I was fed up with it. It started to come into my res. I could see small specs of white in the water. What is the best way to clean out the rads and blocks? i want to make sure none of it is left when i use my new tubing.


Usually a 10:1 distilled water/distilled white vinegar would clean radiators, just don't leave it in there overnight. Flush with distilled water and distilled white vinegar, here's what came out of my radiators after several days using a pond pump with filter! Distilled white vinegar is the only stuff that removed all that crud, hot distilled water did nothing until I added distilled white vinegar!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Pheozero

Guess I'll be picking up some PrimoChill Advanced LRT and some Mayhems Pastel. That or some Durelene.


----------



## magicase

Does the PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT still have this plasticizer issue or has it been fixed? The only other option I have to get tubing is the XSPC High Flex Hose and I have no idea if XSPC have the same issue has PrimoChill.


----------



## Apocalypse Maow

Anyone ever have trouble with this
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10487/ex-tub-647/Tygon_A-60-G_Norprene_12_ID_34_OD_-_Industrial_Grade_Thermoplastic_Elastomer_Tubing.html?id=E3Y5FBAm&mv_pc=149?


----------



## jpongin

Been running Danger Den Dreamflex 1/2"ID x 3/4"OD blue uv tubing with EK Coolant Blue UV since Nov 2011 without flush. I upgraded my GPUs last month so I drained my loop, installed and connected the GPUs, and filled it back up. Upon starting the pump, I almost immediately noticed little flakes swirling around my res. I thought nothing of it, and left it alone.

Yeah, guess what happened to me this past week?

CPU all of sudden spiked to 95C on load for no reason. Upon inspection, flow was completely stuck at CPU block. After Googling around for possible causes, plasticizer kept on popping up (it was the first I ever heard of it). This is my second water-cooling rig, and I never had to flush my previous rig that ran for 7 years (clear tubing from hardware store + distilled water & MCT-5 coolant additive). I bit the bullet proceeded to do a complete tear-down. I am shocked that any vendor selling PC water cooling components would allow such products to be released. As a result of plasticizer leeching from tubing and having not flushed my radiators prior to installing them, I am now having to RMA two cards (because I can't clean the GPU blocks without voiding the warranty), clean CPU block, and completely flush rads with soap + hot water w/ distilled water rinse.

At the moment, I am completely rebuilding my loop (new Durelene tubing, distilled + silver only, new higher flow CPU block, and scrubbing every fitting). Here are some of my plasticizer buildup + possible radiator flakes, and what it did to my EK Supreme block. I hope everyone can learn from my mistake of using Danger Den Dreamflex blue UV tubing + EK coolant blue UV reactive (or anything of the sort). Don't use that combination unless you want this to happen to you:





*Complete blockage*






*Plasticizer samples from CPU block and tube*


This one I scraped off a single tube.


I used these plasticizer samples to see what would dissolve them. Vinegar doesn't do anything to it. However, a de-greaser does dissolve it. I put a couple d drops of Arctic Thermal Material Remover on a small sample, and it immediately started breaking it down. I'd like to know what effect degreasers have on nickel, copper, rubber orings, and plastics.


----------



## kizwan

Arctic Thermal Grease Remover? Do you means Arctic Thermal Material Remover? Thermal Material Remover is a citrus and soy based solvents. Citrus is acid right?! So, it will corrode the metal in your loop if you use in your loop. That's why it come with ArctiClean 2 Thermal Surface Purifier which contain corrosion inhibitor. They only suitable for cleaning thermal paste.

I'm surprised that after running the loop that long, you didn't flush & clean all blocks/radiators before refilling the loop.


----------



## kcuestag

Yeah, I don't think we can really blame it all on tubing. I've only been into water cooling for a bit over a year and I know that everyone recommends cleaning the loop at least once a year, I would never run my loop for over a year without changing the liquid and inspecting the tubing/blocks.


----------



## jpongin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kizwan*
> 
> Arctic Thermal Grease Remover? Do you means Arctic Thermal Material Remover? Thermal Material Remover is a citrus and soy based solvents. Citrus is acid right?! So, it will corrode the metal in your loop if you use in your loop. That's why it come with ArctiClean 2 Thermal Surface Purifier which contain corrosion inhibitor. They only suitable for cleaning thermal paste.
> 
> I'm surprised that after running the loop that long, you didn't flush & clean all blocks/radiators before refilling the loop.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kcuestag*
> 
> Yeah, I don't think we can really blame it all on tubing. I've only been into water cooling for a bit over a year and I know that everyone recommends cleaning the loop at least once a year, I would never run my loop for over a year without changing the liquid and inspecting the tubing/blocks.


Yes I meant Arctic Thermal Material Remover. Yeah, like I said, my previous rig I ran for 7 years without ever having to flush it, and it ran just fine. I still have it, and I'm sure if I broke down that loop, I'd find most of the blocks are oxidized, tubing a bit dirty, but never did I have to flush my radiator and never did I have any issues with plasticizer in the tubing. This rig has *never* clogged any of my components. Flow rate is still good after all these years. When it came time to build my new rig, I just assumed the industry innovated *forward* and improved all things water cooling... boy was I wrong.

Anyway, here's a pic of my rig that has never ever been flushed for 7 years, and it's still running strong:

*Looks like the coolant used here was MCT-5 additive + distilled water*


*Notice some of the first-generation Swiftech blocks on AMD X2 and NVidia 7800 GPUs*


*I don't know... maybe I got lucky? Is this a case of "They don't make'm like they use to"?*


----------



## ronquilent

If I don't take color or UV into account, which tubing would last the longest in terms of minimal to no plasticization? If I'm thinking about this the right way, shouldn't the tubing that is rated ok for beverage use be the best to minimize plasticization? Tygon Noprene? I initially selected PrimoChill primoFlex Advanced LRT but it seems like people are having problems with this too.

Since this is my first loop I was thinking about just putting distilled water and a couple drops of IandH Dead Water Biocide. Do you recommend I something else or in addition to this? Thanks!


----------



## jpongin

Okay, just finished the entire thread - all 260 pages. Wow. So much drama - consumer backlash, finger-pointing, bickering, corporate damage control, brand redemption. It's like a mini-series waiting to happen.

So it looks like Primochill ALRT is the new standard. Darnit, I just ordered $40 worth of Durelene. I'll be putting in an order for 20ft of Primochill ALRT (which will be less than half the length of Durelene @ $50).

I'm happy to see that since 2011, major distributors are off-loading their inventory of bad tubing, but at the same time.. that means a sucker is buying them... hopefully not for PC water cooling. Shockingly, some distributers are still carrying a small inventory of DangerDen Dream Flex!

Now here's a question for the radiator makers:
*Who's going to be the first to offer pre-flushed radiators?*


----------



## dr/owned

SetTitleMatchMode 1
SetTitleMatchMode Fast


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kcuestag*
> 
> Yeah, I don't think we can really blame it all on tubing. I've only been into water cooling for a bit over a year and I know that everyone recommends cleaning the loop at least once a year, I would never run my loop for over a year without changing the liquid and inspecting the tubing/blocks.


good work







, You never leave the loop alone in the dark without doing maintenance. any loop/hardware will going to get damage. Many poeple keep telling others that water loop won't need maintenance. Really? you just put oil,gas,tires and etc.. in a car once? no right. so anything must have maintenance I mean anything. when you don't, this is the result. I may be pick or have OCD but getting used hardware for use with some new parts never going to happen with me. I prefer not to have.because many won't do it right or they don't do it because they don't want to.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jpongin*
> 
> Been running Danger Den Dreamflex 1/2"ID x 3/4"OD blue uv tubing with EK Coolant Blue UV since Nov 2011 without flush. I upgraded my GPUs last month so I drained my loop, installed and connected the GPUs, and filled it back up. Upon starting the pump, I almost immediately noticed little flakes swirling around my res. I thought nothing of it, and left it alone.
> 
> Yeah, guess what happened to me this past week?
> 
> CPU all of sudden spiked to 95C on load for no reason. Upon inspection, flow was completely stuck at CPU block. After Googling around for possible causes, plasticizer kept on popping up (it was the first I ever heard of it). This is my second water-cooling rig, and I never had to flush my previous rig that ran for 7 years (clear tubing from hardware store + distilled water & MCT-5 coolant additive). I bit the bullet proceeded to do a complete tear-down. I am shocked that any vendor selling PC water cooling components would allow such products to be released. As a result of plasticizer leeching from tubing and having not flushed my radiators prior to installing them, I am now having to RMA two cards (because I can't clean the GPU blocks without voiding the warranty), clean CPU block, and completely flush rads with soap + hot water w/ distilled water rinse.
> 
> At the moment, I am completely rebuilding my loop (new Durelene tubing, distilled + silver only, new higher flow CPU block, and scrubbing every fitting). Here are some of my plasticizer buildup + possible radiator flakes, and what it did to my EK Supreme block. I hope everyone can learn from my mistake of using Danger Den Dreamflex blue UV tubing + EK coolant blue UV reactive (or anything of the sort). Don't use that combination unless you want this to happen to you:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Complete blockage*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Plasticizer samples from CPU block and tube*
> 
> 
> This one I scraped off a single tube.
> 
> 
> I used these plasticizer samples to see what would dissolve them. Vinegar doesn't do anything to it. However, a de-greaser does dissolve it. I put a couple d drops of Arctic Thermal Material Remover on a small sample, and it immediately started breaking it down. I'd like to know what effect degreasers have on nickel, copper, rubber orings, and plastics.


----------



## Kriant

Hmmm, I might need to disassemble the blocks sometime in winter then. That looks scary


----------



## Lareson

I know I'll be doing my 6-month checkup on my water-cooling setup here in about a week. Been running Durelene and Koolance UV coolant, so interested to see how things look. Will be doing a full report on here when I get it torn apart and look at the tubing. System been mainly running 24/7 since, with maybe a few days here and there with it shut off.


----------



## magicase

Seems that Primochill tubes have this plasticizer issue whereas XSPC doesn't. Looks like i'll be using XSPC for my next loop.

Out of these 2 tubing, which one should I get?

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=207_160_853&products_id=22670 (2m)
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=207_160_853&products_id=17027 (1m)


----------



## kizwan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *magicase*
> 
> Seems that Primochill tubes have this plasticizer issue whereas XSPC doesn't. Looks like i'll be using XSPC for my next loop.
> 
> Out of these 2 tubing, which one should I get?
> 
> http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=207_160_853&products_id=22670 (2m)
> http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=207_160_853&products_id=17027 (1m)


Primochill *Advanced* LRT tubes so far free from plasticizer. The old one Primochill *Pro* LRT tubes have plasticizer problem.


----------



## Triniboi82

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kizwan*
> 
> Primochill *Advanced* LRT tubes so far free from plasticizer. The old one Primochill *Pro* LRT tubes have plasticizer problem.


Just switched out mine as well to the advanced, used the Pro with only distilled/killcoil/swiftech hydryx for around 6mths and the build up was pretty bad.


----------



## jpongin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> good work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , You never leave the loop alone in the dark without doing maintenance. any loop/hardware will going to get damage. Many poeple keep telling others that water loop won't need maintenance. Really? you just put oil,gas,tires and etc.. in a car once? no right. so anything must have maintenance I mean anything. when you don't, this is the result. I may be pick or have OCD but getting used hardware for use with some new parts never going to happen with me. I prefer not to have.because many won't do it right or they don't do it because they don't want to.


Yes, I've made these changes to prevent this from happening again:
1) Reworked my loop to easily flush my system from an external pump / filter for easy maintenance going forward.
2) Added a pre-filter in my res to catch mechanical debris.
3) Yearly Maintenance - flushing my system with vinegar, inspect tubing, temperature patterns, and flow rates through blocks.

Show of hands - how many people here disassemble their CPU and GPU blocks for cleaning?

Lastly, to the radiator makers: SELL YOUR RADIATORS PRE-FLUSHED. We shouldn't need to do this.


----------



## kizwan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jpongin*
> 
> Show of hands - how many people here disassemble their CPU and GPU blocks for cleaning?


Many people actually. In our local WC forum alone, almost all people disassemble & clean their blocks. Even new blocks go through same process.


----------



## jpongin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kizwan*
> 
> Many people actually. In our local WC forum alone, almost all people disassemble & clean their blocks. Even new blocks go through same process.


Even brand new blocks get disassembled and cleaned? That is overkill unless you buy a block from an untrusted brand. Usually manufactures are pretty good at making sure the block internals are spotless before packaging.

Also, EVGA HydroCopper voids your warranty if you open the block up - which doesn't make any sense. How are you supposed to clean these without breaking the warranty on the entire card?


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jpongin*
> 
> Even brand new blocks get disassembled and cleaned? That is overkill unless you buy a block from an untrusted brand. Usually manufactures are pretty good at making sure the block internals are spotless before packaging.
> 
> Also, EVGA HydroCopper voids your warranty if you open the block up - which doesn't make any sense. How are you supposed to clean these without breaking the warranty on the entire card?


I would have to agree
I still have to laugh I just pulled my loop down after 9 months of use I got lazy and put the same coolant back in because it is the good stuff Car coolant guaranteed for 5years or 250,000km I still got 4years 3months and another 249,950Km to go I have taken it across town a few times







No signs of plasticization on my masterkleer tube so reused that too because I love this planet and I like to recycle as much as possible


----------



## jpongin

*UPDATES!*

*Cleaned the EK Supreme HF blocks nickel top with lime juice soak and scrub + distilled water rinse*



*BUT, after more thought I wanted a block with lower resistance, so I upgraded to the EK Supremacy Clean CSQ nickel top, which had a jet top with a much larger gap for high flow*


*Redesigned my loop to reposition radiators between GPU and CPU for optimal cooling. Also added external flush routing easy maintenance.*


*Durelene tubing with Mayhem Pastel Sunset Yellow - black n' yellow. Looks great. Flow is high, temps are back to normal - (CPU: 32/62, GPUs: 28/42)*


----------



## kizwan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jpongin*
> 
> Even brand new blocks get disassembled and cleaned? That is overkill unless you buy a block from an untrusted brand. Usually manufactures are pretty good at making sure the block internals are spotless before packaging.


It's not overkill. Even new blocks need cleaning before install in the loop. There is no guarantee they're clean. At least run water through the blocks to clean them & then run distilled water through them as well.

Disassembling new blocks are useful too. I have seen several cases water blocks came with manufacturing defect. At the same time cleaning the blocks, you will be able to inspect the block if there is any defect & also whether they're assembled properly. If I remember correctly, there is a case or two where the blocks came with o-ring is not installed properly.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jpongin*
> 
> Also, EVGA HydroCopper voids your warranty if you open the block up - which doesn't make any sense. How are you supposed to clean these without breaking the warranty on the entire card?


Obviously if it will void the warranty, then don't disassembled it. Anyone will not going to disassemble the block if it will void warranty. Many water blocks that I know can be disassembled without voiding the warranty.


----------



## jpongin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kizwan*
> 
> It's not overkill. Even new blocks need cleaning before install in the loop. There is no guarantee they're clean. At least run water through the blocks to clean them & then run distilled water through them as well.
> 
> Disassembling new blocks are useful too. I have seen several cases water blocks came with manufacturing defect. At the same time cleaning the blocks, you will be able to inspect the block if there is any defect & also whether they're assembled properly. If I remember correctly, there is a case or two where the blocks came with o-ring is not installed properly.
> Obviously if it will void the warranty, then don't disassembled it. Anyone will not going to disassemble the block if it will void warranty. Many water blocks that I know can be disassembled without voiding the warranty.


Okay, this is nuts. Here is my challenge to the PC water cooling industry:
1) Take pride in your products from manufacturing to packaging to shipping. No user who buys a water block should need to disassemble and clean before use. I mean we're practically doing your job at this point. I personally know that Swiftech goes through great lengths to ship their blocks pre-cleaned.
2) Radiators - we should not need to flush brand new radiators in fear of ruining our entire loop. Pre-flush your radiators before packaging and shipping.
3) Tubes - don't make crappy ones with high levels of extractibles
4) Make better filters specifically for PC watercooling. Some companies are already doing this, but we need WAY better ones. Ones that you can easily view / change the filter without emptying the loop.

The first brand that does this and markets it as such will dominate the market.

Who wouldn't want to buy a guaranteed pre-flushed radiator?
Wou wouldn't want to buy a guaranteed clean water block?
Who wouldn't want to buy true plasticizer-free tubing? Look at Durelene and PrimoChill ALRT - obviously water cooling enthusiasts will throw money at proven quality parts.


----------



## bigmac11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jpongin*
> 
> Okay, this is nuts. Here is my challenge to the PC water cooling industry:
> 1) Take pride in your products from manufacturing to packaging to shipping. No user who buys a water block should need to disassemble and clean before use. I mean we're practically doing your job at this point. I personally know that Swiftech goes through great lengths to ship their blocks pre-cleaned.
> 2) Radiators - we should not need to flush brand new radiators in fear of ruining our entire loop. Pre-flush your radiators before packaging and shipping.
> 3) Tubes - don't make crappy ones with high levels of extractibles
> 4) Make better filters specifically for PC watercooling. Some companies are already doing this, but we need WAY better ones. Ones that you can easily view / change the filter without emptying the loop.
> 
> The first brand that does this and markets it as such will dominate the market.
> 
> Who wouldn't want to buy a guaranteed pre-flushed radiator?
> Wou wouldn't want to buy a guaranteed clean water block?
> Who wouldn't want to buy true plasticizer-free tubing? Look at Durelene and PrimoChill ALRT - obviously water cooling enthusiasts will throw money at proven quality parts.


----------



## dr/owned

SetTitleMatchMode 1
SetTitleMatchMode Fast


----------



## Wasupwitdat1

I'm glad I read this thread because I was having a serious flow problem and my temps were getting dangerously high. I thought it was a radiator but I read though a lot of this thread and thought I should check the CPU block first. Here's what I found,


I cleaned it with CLR and a wire brush. Now my flow is crazy fast again. And my temps are back down in the mid to high 30 degree range. Thanks people.


----------



## jpongin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wasupwitdat1*
> 
> I'm glad I read this thread because I was having a serious flow problem and my temps were getting dangerously high. I thought it was a radiator but I read though a lot of this thread and thought I should check the CPU block first. Here's what I found,
> 
> 
> I cleaned it with CLR and a wire brush. Now my flow is crazy fast again. And my temps are back down in the mid to high 30 degree range. Thanks people.


If you hadn't done so already make sure you flush your rads to get all the crap out... otherwise you'll be cleaning them again really soon. Also, a $5 aquarium sponge filter at a local pet shop will prevent junk from getting into your blocks. Just filter before it goes into the blocks.


----------



## sticks435

Well finally took my loop apart after a year running just kill coil and distilled water. Pics below. Any recommendations on how to clean the blocks? I won't be using the GPU block again because I have a 780 now, but figured I'd clean it up in case I can sell it.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sticks435*
> 
> Well finally took my loop apart after a year running just kill coil and distilled water. Pics below. Any recommendations on how to clean the blocks? I won't be using the GPU block again because I have a 780 now, but figured I'd clean it up in case I can sell it.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Looks like a bit of allege/oxidation but not too bad.

Edit:didn't see the tube...yeah you should use proper biocide (nuke-phn) and not a live-coil.


----------



## sticks435

Yea, when I rebuild my loop at the end of the month I'll probably go with some Mayhem's Biocide extreme or pt nuke.


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sticks435*
> 
> Yea, when I rebuild my loop at the end of the month I'll probably go with some Mayhem's Biocide extreme or pt nuke.


I would stay away from copper sulfate based biocide (what pt nuke is). Nuke-phn is a chloride base so as not to mess with any sort of conducting metals. Works just as well and what is suggested my the makes of nuke.


----------



## sticks435

Ah yea I had forgotten there was 2 different kinds. Any suggestions on the Mayhem's biocide?


----------



## kcuestag

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sticks435*
> 
> Ah yea I had forgotten there was 2 different kinds. Any suggestions on the Mayhem's biocide?


Mayhems Biocide Extreme works quite well, it's the only thing I recommend to keep the loop clean.


----------



## Bloodbath

I just took apart my rig the other day that used black Primochill tubing and it is full of powdery white residue but strangely enough the CPU block was clean as a whistle, it had even been running for a year with that tubing.


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Hmm I purchased Pro LRT a while back & when I took my loop apart I did notice that I had some residue. This explains a lot.. It also stained my XPSC Dual 5.25'' bay reservoir. I've tried to remove the white residue & was kind of successful using white vinegar + water + rice & shaking. I didn't leave the mix inside for too long because I was scared that the vinegar might start eating through my acrylic reservoir. Does anyone know of anyway to clean this out without harming my reservoir? There is still some stains & I don't want to reuse it unless its spotless. I'm going to try a baby bottle cleaner next.

I also purchased some Black Pro LRT for my little HTPC & have yet to take this apart, but I'll make sure to inspect it & see if there is any plasticizer problems once I do...

I'm actually in the process of ordering some new tubing. I was looking @ Primochill Advanced LRT. Does this have the plasticizer problem?

Here is the rundown of my loop that I am currently building,

Alphacool XT45 180mm
Alphacool ST30 240mm
Alphacool ST30 120mm
Koolance CPU-380i
Koolance GTX 590 Waterblock
XSPC Dual 5.25'' Bay for single D5
Alphacool VPP655
BitsPower Matte Black Fittings

What would you guys recommend for my additive? Silver coil, PT Nuke, or Mayhems Biocide Extreme? On Koolance's website, it mentions not to mix Silver & Nickle.. so I'm trying to avoid using a Silver Kill Coil.

Thanks guys!


----------



## sticks435

I've heard good things about Mayhems Biocide. Btw, they only say that because their nickel plating is crap. I ran a kill coil with the Heatkiller Nickel 570 block for a year and don't have a single thing wrong with it.


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sticks435*
> 
> I've heard good things about Mayhems Biocide. Btw, they only say that because their nickel plating is crap. I ran a kill coil with the Heatkiller Nickel 570 block for a year and don't have a single thing wrong with it.


If it is crap.. I don't want to risk it flaking. Would the Mayhems cause any type of corrosion with the rest of the things in my loop?
Thanks!







+rep


----------



## sticks435

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz*
> 
> If it is crap.. I don't want to risk it flaking. Would the Mayhems cause any type of corrosion with the rest of the things in my loop?
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +rep


Nope shouldn't. That's it's whole point, to be a corrosion and organic growth inhibitor.


----------



## Apocalypse Maow

Mayhems has copper sulfate just like PT nuke. It's almost the same thing








Get the PHN one here
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/peptpcobi1.html


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sticks435*
> 
> Nope shouldn't. That's it's whole point, to be a corrosion and organic growth inhibitor.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Apocalypse Maow*
> 
> Mayhems has copper sulfate just like PT nuke. It's almost the same thing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get the PHN one here
> http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/peptpcobi1.html


Thanks guys, i'm going to be ordering from PPC, do they have Mayhems or PTnuke? Also whats a good way to clean my cloudy XSPC acrylic reservoir from the Plasticizer problem that I had before?


----------



## nleksan

Myself and my friend, both have been running Advanced LRT (me: White 1/2x3/4, him: Clear 1/2x3/4) since it first came out.

I use Distilled Water + PTNuke-PHN (which I HIGHLY recommend).
He (until ~3 days ago) used Mayhem's Gigabyte Orange Dye and Distilled, now running Distilled + PTNuke-PHN.

Absolutely ZERO plasticizer issues!


----------



## Apocalypse Maow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz*
> 
> Thanks guys, i'm going to be ordering from PPC, do they have Mayhems or PTnuke? Also whats a good way to clean my cloudy XSPC acrylic reservoir from the Plasticizer problem that I had before?


PPC doesn't have Nuke (not the PHN kind). They do have Mayhems, but it has copper sulfate... That's what you're trying to stay away from, right?


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Apocalypse Maow*
> 
> PPC doesn't have Nuke (not the PHN kind). They do have Mayhems, but it has copper sulfate... That's what you're trying to stay away from, right?


Im not really sure, is copper sulfate bad for my setup?


----------



## Apocalypse Maow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz*
> 
> Im not really sure, is copper sulfate bad for my setup?


I've heard it causes problems with nickle, but I've never seen it myself! I do know that the dudes using Nuke PHN like it A LOT! I don't think you will have any trouble out of Mayhems. I just saw someone complaining about copper sulfate in PT Nuke. They're obviously not informed, cause it is in Mayhems as well... Nuke PHN is benzalkonium chloride and doesn't have ill effects on Nickel, while copper sulfate can. So! If you really, really want to be safe just go with Nuke PHN or Silver kill coil!

Read this!!!

Distilled water offers the best heat transfer properties of any coolants. Better than ethylene glycol or propylene glycol. It's cheap, and readily available at most grocery stores.

For control of biologicals, including algea, the best commercial option is probably a silver coil. This is readily available from many computer parts vendors.

Copper sulphate based biocides should not be used in systems where there is nickle plated copper, due to galvanic corrosion.

Benzalkonium chloride biocides works well as a biocide. But, I am personallly not a big fan of benzalkonium chloride, as chloride ions can cause corrosion (pitting) in some metals for prolonged durations at high temperatures. At computer temperatues, this should not be much of a problem -- but I tend to be conservative.

Silver coils (as mentioned by Karlitos, above) reportedly work well, and there is research to support the anti-fungal properties of silver ions. Some people have stated concern about galvanic corrosion in systems where there is both silver and copper. Technical, this concern is valid (anodic voltage potential is 0.2 volts, compared to 0.05 for copper-nickle and 0.15 for silver and nickle). There has been some speculation that a potential of even 0.15 volts has been enough to cause galvanic corrosion on one manufacturer's nickle plated copper heat sinks.

Corrosion inhibiton is a tricky subject. Most corrosion in computer water cooling systems is caused by galvanic action -- which is caused by mixing of metals of widely different anodic potential. The best bet is to always use the same (or similar) metals. NEVER mix aluminum with copper or brass. Copper and nickel are generally OK together, notwithstanding the nickle plating issue from one particular water block manufacturer.

There are many different industrial corrosion inhibitors that are used in water-based cooling systems, including on automobile engines. Most of these are optimized for either high temperatures (e.g. engines) or low temperatures (e.g. chillers) and are typically designed for carbon steel piping systems.

I believe the optimal corrosion inhibitor for copper systems is 1,2,4-Triazole -- a commercially available corriosion inhibitor. It is dangerous to handle (a carcinogen), and is very expensive, but should be the ideal inhibitor for computer water cooling systems. The ideal concentration of the triazole in distilled water would be 500 ppmw, based upon the research that I have seen.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Tim
Old Fart Chemical Engineer


----------



## Lee17

First thing that could be interesting to know about the corrosion inhibitor is how it work. Once we understand how it work, it will be easier to choose the right one, or to find one. Same thing for the control of biological grow in water.

That said, from a student in Chemical Engineering


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Apocalypse Maow*
> 
> I've heard it causes problems with nickle, but I've never seen it myself! I do know that the dudes using Nuke PHN like it A LOT! I don't think you will have any trouble out of Mayhems. I just saw someone complaining about copper sulfate in PT Nuke. They're obviously not informed, cause it is in Mayhems as well... Nuke PHN is benzalkonium chloride and doesn't have ill effects on Nickel, while copper sulfate can. So! If you really, really want to be safe just go with Nuke PHN or Silver kill coil!
> 
> Read this!!!
> 
> Distilled water offers the best heat transfer properties of any coolants. Better than ethylene glycol or propylene glycol. It's cheap, and readily available at most grocery stores.
> 
> For control of biologicals, including algea, the best commercial option is probably a silver coil. This is readily available from many computer parts vendors.
> 
> Copper sulphate based biocides should not be used in systems where there is nickle plated copper, due to galvanic corrosion.
> 
> Benzalkonium chloride biocides works well as a biocide. But, I am personallly not a big fan of benzalkonium chloride, as chloride ions can cause corrosion (pitting) in some metals for prolonged durations at high temperatures. At computer temperatues, this should not be much of a problem -- but I tend to be conservative.
> 
> Silver coils (as mentioned by Karlitos, above) reportedly work well, and there is research to support the anti-fungal properties of silver ions. Some people have stated concern about galvanic corrosion in systems where there is both silver and copper. Technical, this concern is valid (anodic voltage potential is 0.2 volts, compared to 0.05 for copper-nickle and 0.15 for silver and nickle). There has been some speculation that a potential of even 0.15 volts has been enough to cause galvanic corrosion on one manufacturer's nickle plated copper heat sinks.
> 
> Corrosion inhibiton is a tricky subject. Most corrosion in computer water cooling systems is caused by galvanic action -- which is caused by mixing of metals of widely different anodic potential. The best bet is to always use the same (or similar) metals. NEVER mix aluminum with copper or brass. Copper and nickel are generally OK together, notwithstanding the nickle plating issue from one particular water block manufacturer.
> 
> There are many different industrial corrosion inhibitors that are used in water-based cooling systems, including on automobile engines. Most of these are optimized for either high temperatures (e.g. engines) or low temperatures (e.g. chillers) and are typically designed for carbon steel piping systems.
> 
> I believe the optimal corrosion inhibitor for copper systems is 1,2,4-Triazole -- a commercially available corriosion inhibitor. It is dangerous to handle (a carcinogen), and is very expensive, but should be the ideal inhibitor for computer water cooling systems. The ideal concentration of the triazole in distilled water would be 500 ppmw, based upon the research that I have seen.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Regards,
> Tim
> Old Fart Chemical Engineer


I'll just order PTNuke with PHN from Sidewinder. I don't want to risk putting a silver coil in my res & then I get some type of corrosion due to the nickel blocks that I'm also using.


----------



## Apocalypse Maow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WizrdSleevz*
> 
> I'll just order PTNuke with PHN from Sidewinder. I don't want to risk putting a silver coil in my res & then I get some type of corrosion due to the nickel blocks that I'm also using.


That is my plan as well.


----------



## WizrdSleevz

Now now that I got that figured out, anyone know how to clean a foggy acrylic xspc reservoir? Its foggy from the plasticizer problem from before. Im probably just going to say screw it & use water & white vinegar & a baby bottle cleaner. Im just scared that the vinegar is going to eat through the acrylic...


----------



## feznz

I did see someone say use small stones like you have in a fish aquarium and put them inside and shake it around with mild soap


----------



## Apocalypse Maow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feznz*
> 
> I did see someone say use small stones like you have in a fish aquarium and put them inside and shake it around with mild soap


I've always heard the same!


----------



## Bloodbath

ewww!


Less than one year old basic CPU loop, funny enough my CPU block is clean as a whistle.


----------



## gdmaddog

Just read about half of this, after a mishap with my first fully self-built loop (skimped on tubing, now seeing buildup in res)

As I've been reading, I see a lot of back and forth over which manufactures are no good, which products have failed, but I'm still fuzzy on any clear answers.

One issue I saw described here and elsewhere was a clouding of DEHP-free (non-placticizer) Tygon E-1000.

My concern was, as I read through the spec sheet on E-1000, I realized it is only rated for 125F, 52C.

In fact, ALL of Tygons food-grade tubing is rated similarly.

While I know my machine hits below that frequently, I'm sure any lengthy heat-soak with Prime95 to test an OC, or a machine running in less than ideal circumstances will pump hotter than 52C fluid out of the GPUs or CPU... at which point, we've exceeded the rating of Tygon food and beverage hoses.

I'm not sure what the original purposes of most of the hoses we use are, but unless I'm mistaken, it would be unwise to consider any hose with DEHP -and- an operating temperature rating that meets or exceeds the maximum temps we could expect our CPU to pump out (I'm thinking a 100C rated hose would offer more than enough head room to avoid breakdown of the material and hazing of the hose?)

With that in mind, I found spec sheets on Tygon E-1000 DEHP-free food and beverage hose, and a lab-spec DEHP-free hose from them labeled E-LFL:

E-1000
http://www.biopharm.saint-gobain.com/en/Products/PDFs/TYGON_E-1000.pdf

E-LFL
http://www.biopharm.saint-gobain.com/en/products/pdfs/TYGON_E-LFL.pdf

While I scramble to fix my issue before it gets out of hand, and prepare for a breakdown of my system and cleaning out of my res and block, I am seriously considering *lab-grade* tubing over food-grade if I can find a supplier. E-LFL looks promising (rated for 165F, 74C operating temperature, non-placticizer). But I'm aware this will be VERY expensive. I'll keep looking for competitors in Lab-grade, high temp, crystal clear, chemical resistant tubing. Of course, the long-term usage may become a factor too.

Has anyone actually called Tygon or one of the other long-standing lab/food grade tubing manufacturers and asked them what their tubing lifespan is? Operating temp and DEHP is obvious, but longevity not so much...

Oh! I'll post pics of the damage when I do the tear down!

Cheap off-brand tubing, Mayhems Blood Red X1 + Deep Red dye (and lots of it), tubing leeched after the dye was added a few weeks after the start of the build, but I also started OCing it then, and may have also exceeded the operating temperature of whatever this junk is. No notable discoloration or hazing of the tube *yet*, just sediment on the bottom of the res and some gunk buildup on the res window.


----------



## Lee17

I don't think the water temperature raise above the limit of the tubing. If your water temperature raise over 50*C, you might want to look to you radiator if it does its job right.

Anyway, I'm personally looking for clear tubing to go with mayhem aurora thing for a show off but right now I'm using black UV reactive Feser and last time I take my loop apart, I didn't see any leaching at all.

Anyway, that thread is really long! Look like we really have an issue that touch a lot of people!


----------



## gdmaddog

post-radiator, certainly not that hot, but immediately after the gpus? I haven't put a probe pre radiator to see what the water does under load, before cooling it back down in the rad.


----------



## Lee17

It take a large amount of heat (4.176 J/kg*K) to raise the water by 1 degree Celsius. And don't forget that the water pass really fast through the block so it didn't have a lot of time to gain a large amount of energies. In a well design loop, the water should not raise that much and will reach an equilibrium temperature after a while.


----------



## kcuestag

Here's the red Primoflex Advanced LRT I was using for 4-5 months:



I compared it to some new red tubing I had left on the box from the time I bough it and it looked exactly the same, really nice to finally see plasticizer-free tubing.


----------



## TheLawIX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kcuestag*
> 
> Here's the red Primoflex Advanced LRT I was using for 4-5 months:
> 
> 
> 
> I compared it to some new red tubing I had left on the box from the time I bough it and it looked exactly the same, really nice to finally see plasticizer-free tubing.


Hmmm, it's definitely a toss between this stuff and Durelene for me.


----------



## kcuestag

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheLawIX*
> 
> Hmmm, it's definitely a toss between this stuff and Durelene for me.


Primoflex Advanced LRT for sure, Durelene does have plasticizer, it just takes longer to appear than normal tubing, but the only tubing with NO plasticizer right now apparently is the Advanced LRT.


----------



## TheLawIX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kcuestag*
> 
> Primoflex Advanced LRT for sure, Durelene does have plasticizer, it just takes longer to appear than normal tubing, but the only tubing with NO plasticizer right now apparently is the Advanced LRT.


I'm still a bit skeptical, all the primoflex tubing I have ever purchased has been a let down. This stuff is pricey too.


----------



## kcuestag

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheLawIX*
> 
> I'm still a bit skeptical, all the primoflex tubing I have ever purchased has been a let down. This stuff is pricey too.


The Primoflex PRO LRT was awful and it made your blocks full of crap, but the Advanced LRT is the best tubing of the market right now and that's why it's a bit pricey.


----------



## TheLawIX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kcuestag*
> 
> The Primoflex PRO LRT was awful and it made your blocks full of crap, but the Advanced LRT is the best tubing of the market right now and that's why it's a bit pricey.


Good to know, I think I'll give it a shot


----------



## kimoswabi

I had to add in my $0.02 to the plasticizing issue.




Just the tube with coolant has been sitting on my desk for about two weeks when I noticed that the coolant was looking a little less brighter than it used to be. It wasn't until I drained the coolant and dried the tube when you can clearly see the plasticizer inside.

The big irony here is that *BOTH* the tube and the coolant is from the EK Kit (EK-KIT H3O - Supreme HFX 240 - which I have yet to use). The coolant is EK UV Blue concentrate mixed with distilled water and I believe the tube that ships w/ this kit is Masterkleer.

Fortunately, I'm not using the Masterkleer tube at all in my loop but I am currently using the EK UV Blue coolant along with PrimoFlex Advanced LRT in my Prodigy. I will be draining and checking the PrimoFlex Advanced LRT tubes this weekend.



These are Mayhems X1 Blood Red concentrate with distilled water (1 drop of Dark Blue added to darken the coolant in PrimoChill Acrylic tubing) and X1 Clear concentrate with distilled water (10 drops of Dark Blue added in PrimoFlex Advanced LRT tubing).
I'm pretty hopeful the PrimoFlex Advanced LRT tubing will turn out great given the quality of the Mayhems products.


----------



## nleksan

Duralene definitely plasticizes, happened in about 2 months for my friend.

He's since been running Primochill Advanced LRT, with the same Mayhem's Gigabyte Orange Pastel with a bit of Mayhem's Red Dye mixture, for about 4-5 months and we just flushed and refilled the loop a few weeks ago. Clear tubing, zero plasticizer to be found anywhere. The dye was rather gunked up, kinda disappointed about that, but the tubing was perfect!

My white Advanced LRT has been running nonstop (well, average is about 22hrs a day, 6 days a week or so) with temps that range from ~16C to ~60C (component temps), and after over 6 months there is not a single hint of even the slightest bit of plasticizer or any other degradation!


----------



## TheLawIX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> Duralene definitely plasticizes, happened in about 2 months for my friend.
> 
> He's since been running Primochill Advanced LRT, with the same Mayhem's Gigabyte Orange Pastel with a bit of Mayhem's Red Dye mixture, for about 4-5 months and we just flushed and refilled the loop a few weeks ago. Clear tubing, zero plasticizer to be found anywhere. The dye was rather gunked up, kinda disappointed about that, but the tubing was perfect!
> 
> My white Advanced LRT has been running nonstop (well, average is about 22hrs a day, 6 days a week or so) with temps that range from ~16C to ~60C (component temps), and after over 6 months there is not a single hint of even the slightest bit of plasticizer or any other degradation!


That settles it, time to order Primo Advanced LRT and Mayhem's Pastel!


----------



## Egami

Think this might be relevant here.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stickg1*
> 
> So I'm not sure what I did wrong. I installed brand new Primochill Advance LRT tubing, started out clear and is starting to get foggy. I flushed everything with distilled water. The only liquid I have run in any of these components is distilled water with a drop or two of mayhems biocide.
> 
> Started clear:
> http://s1061.photobucket.com/user/stickg1/media/closefinished1_zps6b3212f9.jpg.html
> 
> Now it's fogged, 24 hours later.
> http://s1061.photobucket.com/user/stickg1/media/samcam2_zpseecd442b.jpg.html
> 
> EDIT: Notice the water is still crystal clear in the reservoir. I just put in this tubing yesterday....
> 
> http://s1061.photobucket.com/user/stickg1/media/samcam3_zps2d5cb725.jpg.html


----------



## tiborrr12

All PVC tubing will absorb some water, about 1-2% of the volume of PVC tube. If they look cloudy it doesn't mean it's leaching plasticizer.

Once you dry the tube it will go crystal clear again. Only then you can see whether it has leached plasticizer.


----------



## TheLawIX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Egami*
> 
> Think this might be relevant here.


Again I am confused about what to buy


----------



## WiLd FyeR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheLawIX*
> 
> Again I am confused about what to buy


Just go with Primochill Advance LRT, you should be okay. I've had mine for 3 months and no issues. Not sure whats the prob with others but probably something in there block or rad that is causing the issue.


----------



## TheLawIX

I ordered some LRT, now I'll need to wait for AMD to release the 9970. I'll post pics once the build is done.


----------



## mikailmohammed

My clear tubing was cloudy after a few weeks. This was the Primochill advanced LRT clear tubing with feser clear UV blue coolant. I am now buying the XSPC clear UV blue tubing and using distilled water with it. I hope this does not get cloudy.


----------



## kizwan

Primochill Advanced LRT clear tube still clear with Mayhems Pastel coolant after 4 months, no clouding whatsoever.


----------



## Apocalypse Maow

So I have a little bit of a scum-ish looking ring in the top of my res... I should be worried, right...?


----------



## Aparition

I stumbled into this thread while looking for tubing on the cheap side to run Mayhems. Seems that this plasticizer is used to make the tubing flexible.
I think it looks horrible myself.

In an effort to save some cash I got some Watts Home Depot PVC tubing, but that seems it will cloud over in a short period of time.

So I stumbled on this site...
https://www.gvc.net/p/5013/cleargreen-clear-phthalate-free-pvc-tubing

Tubing, Clear Phthalate Free PVC, 70A Durometer, 3/8" ID x 1/2" OD, 50 Ft. Long
Product Code: 101-188581
$26.27

Is this comparable to the Primochill Advanced LRT you guys are using?


----------



## NASzi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aparition*
> 
> I stumbled into this thread while looking for tubing on the cheap side to run Mayhems. Seems that this plasticizer is used to make the tubing flexible.
> I think it looks horrible myself.
> 
> In an effort to save some cash I got some Watts Home Depot PVC tubing, but that seems it will cloud over in a short period of time.
> 
> So I stumbled on this site...
> https://www.gvc.net/p/5013/cleargreen-clear-phthalate-free-pvc-tubing
> 
> Tubing, Clear Phthalate Free PVC, 70A Durometer, 3/8" ID x 1/2" OD, 50 Ft. Long
> Product Code: 101-188581
> $26.27
> 
> Is this comparable to the Primochill Advanced LRT you guys are using?


For that outrageous price why not just buy the primochill?


----------



## Quadricwan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NASzi*
> 
> For that outrageous price why not just buy the primochill?


Outrageous price? I think $26 for 50 feet is super cheap!


----------



## Aparition

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NASzi*
> 
> For that outrageous price why not just buy the primochill?


That is 50ft for $27.00 + 11 shipping = $38 or $00.76 a ft
Amazon has 10ft of PrimoAdvLRT for $26.00 = $02.60 ft.

If it is the same or very similar tubing the GVC option would be better.


----------



## nleksan

RIG ONE
Primochill Advanced LRT 1/2x3/4" White Tubing (X79 rig: 420+240 rads + HK GPUx3 680 Hole Edition GPU Block + Apogee HD CPU Block + EK 150 Adv Res + XSPC Single Bay Res + MCP35X2 + 26x BP Fittings + 8x Monsoon Fittings)
100% Pure Laboratory (Pharmaceutical-use) Distilled Pure Water + 3drops per Liter of PTNuke-PHN Biocide

6 months = ZERO Plasticizer

RIG TWO
Primochill Advanced LRT 1/2x3/4" Clear Tubing (Z77 Rig: 360+240+420 rads + 2x Aquacomputer 680LTG FC Block + Raystorm Block + BP 250 Res + Koolance Dual-DDC Single Bay Res + 2x MCP35X Pumps + 17x BP Fittings + 6x Monsoon Fittings)
Mayhem's Gigabyte Orange Pastel + Mayhem's Deep Red Dye + 100% Pure Distilled Water

5 months = ZERO Plasticizer, Very Slight Staining Occurred After Draining but was Removed After 4 Complete Flushes with Warm Water

PREVIOUS TUBING ISSUES:

Duralene 1/2x3/4 from Sidewinder PC's - discoloration within 14days upon exposure to Mayhem's dyes, unable to remove due to plasticizer "reverse leeching" in which the tubing absorbed the liquid; Discoloration (yellowing) after 14 days when run with just Distilled + PTNuke-PHN, unable to return tubing to original clarity; Discoloration AND heavy plasticizer leeching, enough that the blocks had to be disassembled and scrubbed, when used with Distilled Water and a Silver Kill Coil *NOTE: All tubing was from the same exact roll

Primochill Pro LRT 1/2x3/4 from PPC's and Micro Center - 50/50 on either being "perfect" or having significant leeching, the older tubing (MC) being extremely good but the newer (PPC's) causing a tremendous amount of buildup within 7 days

Masterkleer 1/2x3/4 from I-Don't-Remember - Heavy Yellow Discoloration after between 14-16 days with just H2O and PTNuke PHN; Plasticizer noticed in reservoir after ~25 days; Also, tubing was measurably stiffer after just 30 days of use, when compared to an identical piece from the same roll the used tubing required exactly 75% more to make a 180 degree bend without kinking

XSPC Tubing - Extremely minimal amount of plasticizer leaching; Discoloration was significant and would turn yellow with my normal H2O+PTNuke combo but with dye (Mayhem) it would take on the color of the dye used; similar stiffness issue as Masterkleer; HOWEVER, when used with H2O + Silver Coil, amount of plasticizer leaching (same roll, new pieces) increased to where it was necessary to clean the blocks manually

Feser Tubing - Extreme amount of Plasticizer within just 7 days; Tube became so stiff as to be unusable and I would go so far as to say it was practically brittle; colored so can't speak to hazing/yellowing/dye absorption

3 Different Types of Tygon (not including Norprene) 1/2x3/4 Tubing - all eventually hazed with time taken ranging from 14 to over 45 days; plasticizer leeching was less than any of the above tubing aside from Primochill Advanced; flexibility is "moderate" but it DOES maintain and for 2 of the 3 actually IMPROVE the bend radius post-use; expensive ranging from $0.85 to $2.25 per foot; the best tubing type is that used for carbonated beverage dispensing as it is designed for the acidic environment

Unknown-Make Tubing from Laboratory (Pharmaceutical Lab, all I know is this tubing costs $80 per 15ft roll) Clear 1/2x3/4" Size - Zero Discoloration, Zero Plasticizer Leaching, Zero Change in Malleability after use in both H20+PTNuke as well as Mayhem's Gigabyte Orange + "Blood" Red (?) Dye + Distilled Water; this tubing not only has by far the tightest bend radius I've ever seen (6" will make a perfect circle without kinking), it's also "trainable" in that despite coming coiled it can be made 100% perfectly straight simply by using a dowel rod or something similar throughout the length needed then immersing it in ~140F water for less than 2 minutes followed by simple air drying (ice water trains it "too well" in that it makes later bends harder to hold). Were it not for the price, this is what I'd use, unfortunately our supplier won't sell it in quantities smaller than 250ft ($1100) and no manufacturer is given, but I do know that it is: "Pharmaceutical and Implantable Grade, 100% of UV blocked, organism-proof (solution must be sterile), available with inner-diameters ranging from 1/32" to 2" and wall thicknesses from 1/32" to 3/4"; designed for use in pharmaceutical manufacture, intravenous drug administration or re-hydration solutions including potassium-based "banana bags" and standard sterile saline solution, and recently approved for use with implanted intrathecal drug administration devices aka "Drug Pumps" when used with Baclofen, Hydromorphone, Morphine Sulfate, Oxymorphone, Fentanyl, Alfentanil, Sufentanil, Dihydromorphine and Diacetylmorphine, (see packaging for complete list of certified drug compatibility)", that's a paraphrasing as I don't remember the order the drugs were named in or how they phrased the IV Solution Compatibility, but otherwise it's exactly as stated.

VERDICT:

With same-metal loops (all rads are XSPC EX or Alphacool NexXxoS series, all blocks pure copper, no silver coils used), there is no negative effect resulting from the use of Advanced LRT.
Tubing MAY appear slightly discolored (clear) if used with high quality dyes (I would never touch anything aside from Mayhem's anymore), but simple warm water flushes have removed the discoloration completely, in fact the tubing when held next to a piece of BNIB never-used from the same coil looks almost identical.

Aside from the yet-to-be-determined-make (very expensive) laboratory and medical implant tubing, the absolute no-contest winner is Primochill Advanced LRT.

It IS stiffer than most, but with no (or very little; haven't yet put it in the GCMS) plasticizer, it's actually MORE flexible than I expected. It's quite resistant to kinks, and you're just as likely to be unable to bend the tubing further as you are to have it kink. It holds shape perfectly, with absolutely no changes over 6 months of use.
It does NOT change or loose it's flexibility after use, at least not so far, but even if at some point it does, it's still ahead of the rest by 5 months or more.
The stiffness makes it difficult to fit with Bitspower Compression Fittings (the highest quality fittings available, with there being only 1 that I haven't tried yet) and slightly less so with Monsoon Compression Fittings (easier to get over the barb; lower quality than Bitspower and commensurate lower cost, but higher quality than almost every other compression fitting brand), and with XSPC Compression Fittings it is as difficult to get on as BP but removal is almost impossible without cutting (XSPC low-profile compression fittings, despite their lower price, are the strongest-biting fitting and tie with Monsoon for 2nd best with each having its own ups and downs, but at $3-4/ea for high quality and even low-profile compression fittings, they essentially make barbs pointless, providing a huge amount more holding power not to mention the aesthetic benefit, yet costing the same). *NOTE: Submersion into a warm (NOT too hot) water bath, just the ends of the cut tubing, will make it easier to fit over the barb section but you need to immediately put it into an ice bath once the barb is on which will not only allow the collar to then fit and seal but also "molds" the tubing around the barb section of the compression fitting.


----------



## spikezone2004

After having my first loop going for just over 2 months I have noticed severe discoloration, is this plasticizer?

EDIT: no dyes added to system, just distilled water and silver kill coil


----------



## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spikezone2004*
> 
> After having my first loop going for just over 2 months I have noticed severe discoloration, is this plasticizer?
> 
> EDIT: no dyes added to system, just distilled water and silver kill coil


Too many variables that you have not mentioned within your rig to make a learned assumption.

I say assumption, as someone who contributed heavily to this thread, from as far back as when Primochill had their problems in the past, and when many people did not know what to use-we got heavily into all the types of tubing.

Ive battled sponsored rig builders who blatantly lied and claimed that their tubing did not have plasticizer issues, although it did etc etc.

The only tubing that seems to present less of a plasticizer issue at present, is the Primochill advanced, although it has not been on the market as long as some other tubing.

That having been said

-99.99% of tubing has plasticizer (plasticizer is NOT caused, it is inherent in tubing to make it more pliable) clouding (sometimes)is merely plasticizer deposits that have seeped from the body of the tubing into it's inner walls. (i have also posted scientific proof of this within this thread).

Bottom line, there is no such thing as perfect tubing-unless you go the route of Acrylic,neoprene and or Copper.

Plasticizer is not the only cause of tube discolouration-(that brings us back to the variables you neglected to mention









Rig temp,dyes(USE MAYHEM'S ONLY IMO),metals are but a few of the reasons tubing may cloud.

People have to stop looking for a panacea within the soft tubing market-it does not exist as yet (yes, even tubing advertised as Plasticizer free has presented problems eg the various Tygon models) .

All the information that anyone could ever possibly need is located within this thread-but you have to sift through all the unnecessary posts and pseudo solutions from rep junkies (many around with nothing substantial to say)

Most of the posts are re hashes of info already given (as is this one).

I'll leave you with this thought:

I used Mastercleer tubing for over 7 months(in the past) 24/7-i ran Mayhems white pastel through it, and i had not even the slightest sign of plasticizer deposits.

The thing is that Mastercleer is crap tubing

-so was it the dye that helped, was it the combination of dye,tubing, fittings composition that helped, or was it divine intervention?









Watercooling is not an exact science, ergo there can never be an exact solution, thousands of variables exist within the world of WC, by this i mean that no two rigs can ever be 100% the same.

All one can do is try to use certain products that have presented less of a problem, BUT EVEN THEN THERE IS NO GUARANTEE









Good luck.


----------



## Aparition

Anyone use KuriTec tubing?

http://www.plastixs.com/kuritec_010.html

I've not had any search results come up about it.


----------



## kizwan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spikezone2004*
> 
> After having my first loop going for just over 2 months I have noticed severe discoloration, is this plasticizer?
> 
> EDIT: no dyes added to system, just distilled water and silver kill coil


From the picture, it doesn't look like plasticizer. It's tubing discolouration/clouding. AFAIK, it's normal.


----------



## SkitzoPhr3nia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> Aside from the yet-to-be-determined-make (very expensive) laboratory and medical implant tubing, the absolute no-contest winner is Primochill Advanced LRT.
> 
> It IS stiffer than most, but with no (or very little; haven't yet put it in the GCMS) plasticizer, it's actually MORE flexible than I expected. It's quite resistant to kinks, and you're just as likely to be unable to bend the tubing further as you are to have it kink. It holds shape perfectly, with absolutely no changes over 6 months of use.
> It does NOT change or loose it's flexibility after use, at least not so far, but even if at some point it does, it's still ahead of the rest by 5 months or more.
> The stiffness makes it difficult to fit with Bitspower Compression Fittings (the highest quality fittings available, with there being only 1 that I haven't tried yet) and slightly less so with Monsoon Compression Fittings (easier to get over the barb; lower quality than Bitspower and commensurate lower cost, but higher quality than almost every other compression fitting brand), and with XSPC Compression Fittings it is as difficult to get on as BP but removal is almost impossible without cutting (XSPC low-profile compression fittings, despite their lower price, are the strongest-biting fitting and tie with Monsoon for 2nd best with each having its own ups and downs, but at $3-4/ea for high quality and even low-profile compression fittings, they essentially make barbs pointless, providing a huge amount more holding power not to mention the aesthetic benefit, yet costing the same). *NOTE: Submersion into a warm (NOT too hot) water bath, just the ends of the cut tubing, will make it easier to fit over the barb section but you need to immediately put it into an ice bath once the barb is on which will not only allow the collar to then fit and seal but also "molds" the tubing around the barb section of the compression fitting.


I have had Primochill Advanced LRT tubing 3/8x5/8 in my rig for 9 months now. I can agree with everything you have stated. I has no clouding or platisizer residue, has retained the same flexibility as day 1 and retained all bends from when it was ran through the case.

FWIW I am running red tubing with Distilled water and dead water additive.


----------



## Aithos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Egami*
> 
> Think this might be relevant here.


I'm curious, what kind of radiator are you using? I notice that you're running water through your motherboard, if I recall correctly Asus does not user copper in their MB cooling (aluminum iirc) and so if you're running a copper radiator could that be causing problems? I would think the tubing would be more likely to be coated by a substance more readily than your reservoir, so if you're having issues with mixing metals that might be your first sign.

I'm not an expert by any means, I'm just considering a custom loop for my next build and I noticed in your picture that you're running through your MB and wanted clarification...


----------



## Egami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aithos*
> 
> I'm curious, what kind of radiator are you using? I notice that you're running water through your motherboard, if I recall correctly Asus does not user copper in their MB cooling (aluminum iirc) and so if you're running a copper radiator could that be causing problems? I would think the tubing would be more likely to be coated by a substance more readily than your reservoir, so if you're having issues with mixing metals that might be your first sign.
> 
> I'm not an expert by any means, I'm just considering a custom loop for my next build and I noticed in your picture that you're running through your MB and wanted clarification...


I merely quoted someone there.
It transpired that he had accidentally received old primochill tubing instead of the new advanced lrt - and that's why things got foggy.


----------



## replin

Wow I don't agree at all with your review. My Primochill Advanced tubing UV purple and red I ordered and received just last week is terrible. The tubing is ultra stiff. I've used UV Danger den, Primochill, and Feser, Feser by far is the best stuff. Their tubing is noticeably more flexible than Danger Den and monumentally more flexible than Primochill Advanced. I have had no clouding/plasticizer problems with Feser. Definitely going back to Feser. My primochill advanced UV tubing started developing kinks in the tubing just from a simple bend.


----------



## FireDragon

Thanks for the extensive feedback! I have read through ALL 2676 posts. Clearly the Primochill Advanced LRT is a good choice with respect to plasticizer, but is very stiff. The Duralene is very good for cheap tubing, but is stiff, tends to discolor and there have been one or two reports of plasticizer (but no photos) so the latter may not actually be true.

You mention that you tried 3 Different Types of Tygon tubing, but did not clarify which ones. For the purpose of comparing tubing, differences are crucial! I saw one video repeatedly trashing Tygon E-1000 by name, but the tubing was clearly labeled Tygon E-2001, a completely different tubing.

As far as the E-1000 is concerned, the feed back that I see is 1) No plasticizer build-up, 2) like other tubing, it tends to haze over time, 3) it may be slightly less clear when new than some other tubing, but it is not clear (no pun intended) that the comparison tubing was otherwise good tubing, 4) it is very flexible and can handle very tight bends and 5) it may not fare well in some compression fittings, although Koolance works ok, and a bit of tape on the outside solves the problem in any case.

I see various notes about expense - but the cost of the tubing is such a minor component that it doesn't even make the radar. My compression fittings alone will probably be around $900. My radiators were around $800. Do I really care if I spend $50 instead of $20 on tubing?

At the moment, I am inclined to use the E-1000, because I don't care about hazing over time or a slight initial difference in clarity, as long as it doesn't have plasticizer build up and will work in tight spots. I have about 20' of it I got from Gary, it does work with the Koolance QD4 compression fittings. I could pull the tubing out of the fitting, but it was NOT easy. Certainly, the tubing isn't just going to fall off the fitting.

Very few people have mentioned the E-1000 other than to dismiss it because of it being slightly less clear initially or not fitting some compression fittings. Is there any "real" feedback on this tubing?

I would like to see some direct comparisons of the E-1000, the Primochill Advanced LRT and the Duralene if anyone has used all of them. Especially, comparative before photos for clarity and after photos to compare hazing. Don't use dies, so I don't care about staining. For that, Advanced appears to have a clear edge over Duralene with no information on the E-1000.

On person mentioned Tygon E-LFL, but again no real data other than a higher durometer than the E-1000 and a higher temperature rating. Since the temperature of the water then loop is essentially constant, the water temperature is rarely more than a few degrees above ambient - even when running Prime 95 with a hot cpu. So temperature rating is probably not a real concern.


----------



## Ashuiegi

Anyone know what kind of tube is bundled in swiftech h20 kits ? they are very very clear , a bit stiff but i think they must be good because they says you can leave it for years with their coolant without draining. it s in 19/13


----------



## MrPhysique

I'm using XSPC PVC premium Grade Tubing ($16 for 2m) , started fogging up slightly just after 24 hours. Distilled Water with Dead Water Additive


----------



## wermad

Anyone have pics of Primochill white "elegant" advance? Just purchased a roll for my new build and wanted to see some pics of it in action.


----------



## ajaney

I am also looking at the white PrimoFlex Advanced LRT, very curious to see if anybody has had issues with it. this is my first water build and it would be great to have everything go smoothly. what size and what fittings are you using wermad?


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gaguya*
> 
> I am also looking at the white PrimoFlex Advanced LRT, very curious to see if anybody has had issues with it. this is my first water build and it would be great to have everything go smoothly. what size and what fittings are you using wermad?


I got mine a few days ago. I'm using 3/8x5/8. I did test my enzotech compression fittings and this one has a real tight id. The Atomic green and clear advance weren't so tight bu the od was was a bit too bog and locking the ring was difficult.


----------



## huhh

I've been using advanced lrt (bloodshed red) for the last 8 months. Recently drained my loop and took off some tube for inspection. No plasticizer so far, unlike pro lrt...that was everywhere.


----------



## MrPhysique

Hi guys, just wanted to give you all an update on the tubes that I'm using XSPC PVC premium Grade Tubing ($16 for 2m). Installed them 3 weeks ago and made a post here the next day when I observed light fogging after 24 hours, the fogging seems to have cleared up within a few days and now all is clear 3 weeks later and hope they stay that way.


----------



## The EX1

Wanted to share my plasticizer issue so far.

Loop has ran 24/7 for a little over a week
Coolant is Mayhems Pastel Red
Tubing is clear Primochill Advance LRT (not pro)
Radiator was properly flushed with gallons and gallons of hot distilled and vinegar. Then more distilled!
Coolant temps always stayed around 29-30C.


----------



## Gorki

Please advise me on my new tubing. I'm planing on redoing my loop with 1/2" ID 3/4" OD tube black or red. I don't need UV, I know some brands vary when it comes to color and plasticizer free tubing. This is very important to me since I did not have much luck with PrimoFlex Pro LRT Black Tubing.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Lee17

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gorki*
> 
> Please advise me on my new tubing. I'm planing on redoing my loop with 1/2" ID 3/4" OD tube black or red. I don't need UV, I know some brands vary when it comes to color and plasticizer free tubing. This is very important to me since I did not have much luck with PrimoFlex Pro LRT Black Tubing.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


The answer is in you last line.

I would go for the primochill advance LRT


----------



## Gorki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lee17*
> 
> The answer is in you last line.
> 
> I would go for the primochill advance LRT


Thanks. I was unsure about black and red tube. I'm glad this is sorted out now....


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FireDragon*
> 
> Thanks for the extensive feedback! I have read through ALL 2676 posts. Clearly the Primochill Advanced LRT is a good choice with respect to plasticizer, but is very stiff. The Duralene is very good for cheap tubing, but is stiff, tends to discolor and there have been one or two reports of plasticizer (but no photos) so the latter may not actually be true.
> 
> You mention that you tried 3 Different Types of Tygon tubing, but did not clarify which ones. For the purpose of comparing tubing, differences are crucial! I saw one video repeatedly trashing Tygon E-1000 by name, but the tubing was clearly labeled Tygon E-2001, a completely different tubing.
> 
> As far as the E-1000 is concerned, the feed back that I see is 1) No plasticizer build-up, 2) like other tubing, it tends to haze over time, 3) it may be slightly less clear when new than some other tubing, but it is not clear (no pun intended) that the comparison tubing was otherwise good tubing, 4) it is very flexible and can handle very tight bends and 5) it may not fare well in some compression fittings, although Koolance works ok, and a bit of tape on the outside solves the problem in any case.
> 
> I see various notes about expense - but the cost of the tubing is such a minor component that it doesn't even make the radar. My compression fittings alone will probably be around $900. My radiators were around $800. Do I really care if I spend $50 instead of $20 on tubing?
> 
> At the moment, I am inclined to use the E-1000, because I don't care about hazing over time or a slight initial difference in clarity, as long as it doesn't have plasticizer build up and will work in tight spots. I have about 20' of it I got from Gary, it does work with the Koolance QD4 compression fittings. I could pull the tubing out of the fitting, but it was NOT easy. Certainly, the tubing isn't just going to fall off the fitting.
> 
> Very few people have mentioned the E-1000 other than to dismiss it because of it being slightly less clear initially or not fitting some compression fittings. Is there any "real" feedback on this tubing?
> 
> I would like to see some direct comparisons of the E-1000, the Primochill Advanced LRT and the Duralene if anyone has used all of them. Especially, comparative before photos for clarity and after photos to compare hazing. Don't use dies, so I don't care about staining. For that, Advanced appears to have a clear edge over Duralene with no information on the E-1000.
> 
> On person mentioned Tygon E-LFL, but again no real data other than a higher durometer than the E-1000 and a higher temperature rating. Since the temperature of the water then loop is essentially constant, the water temperature is rarely more than a few degrees above ambient - even when running Prime 95 with a hot cpu. So temperature rating is probably not a real concern.


Good post. +1. How's that E1000 working out? I've been using tygon 2475 for sometime now... Very robust, slight fogging after a year or so, and totally inert to cleaning. But, it is stiff and requires loops, not bends.
Good thread...


----------



## FireDragon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Good post. +1. How's that E1000 working out? I've been using tygon 2475 for sometime now... Very robust, slight fogging after a year or so, and totally inert to cleaning. But, it is stiff and requires loops, not bends.
> Good thread...


I haven't put in the water cooling yet (currently installing the sound system). It will be several months...


----------



## Rakin

Masterkleer hoses suck. :| Got Primochill Advanced LRT, hope these are better. BTW is it safe to run PTNuke and distilled water on the primo advanced?


----------



## Apocalypse Maow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rakin*
> 
> Masterkleer hoses suck. :| Got Primochill Advanced LRT, hope these are better. BTW is it safe to run PTNuke and distilled water on the primo advanced?


I've had no trouble with the black onxy and PTNuke. Should be fine!


----------



## 2pacalypsenow

Code:

mine started turning after 2 days this is after 2 months


should i clean my blocks and reservoir? if so what would be the best method,mixture


----------



## ajaney

iv got my loop finished im useing the white advanced lrt tubes with just plane old distilled water and silver as a antimicrobial. well see how things go i dont plan on changing anything up any time soon


----------



## Lareson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2pacalypsenow*
> 
> Code:


mine started turning after 2 days this is after 2 months


should i clean my blocks and reservoir? if so what would be the best method,mixture

What kind of tubing is it? That'll help determine the cause. Also tell us what else you used in your loop including the kind of blocks, fittings, rad, and any additives or coolants you also used.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gaguya*
> 
> iv got my loop finished im useing the white advanced lrt tubes with just plane old distilled water and silver as a antimicrobial. well see how things go i dont plan on changing anything up any time soon


If you're using silver, make sure you have no nickel in you loop. Silver and nickel can cause galvanic corrosion when in the same system. Doesn't matter if you add any additives, combining these two will cause damage to any nickel in the system. This includes fittings and blocks.


----------



## ajaney

swiftech gtx titan blocks

all bits power fittings

xspc full copper cpu block

360mm nexxxos monsta

mcp655 pump

nothings nickel to my knowledge but feel free to tell me there's much i dont know


----------



## huhh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lareson*
> 
> If you're using silver, make sure you have no nickel in you loop. Silver and nickel can cause galvanic corrosion when in the same system. Doesn't matter if you add any additives, combining these two will cause damage to any nickel in the system. This includes fittings and blocks.


No, it doesn't. That's a lie EK fed everyone because of their horrible plating job. I've had silver in my loop for years with Copper/Nickel blocks and have never had any corrosion issues.


----------



## Lareson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *huhh*
> 
> No, it doesn't. That's a lie EK fed everyone because of their horrible plating job. I've had silver in my loop for years with Copper/Nickel blocks and have never had any corrosion issues.


Eh, so my chemistry is off. I'm still personally against silver in a loop as it adds another variable that could cause something to go wrong. Of course not all metal plating is perfect, hence what EK blocks had. It's not so much that the metal themselves are the thing that's affected, it's the tubing. A few pages back, a few of us came to the conclusion that silver (with possible combination of a biocide and/or nickel) can shorten the life of tubing and cause more hazing than normal. http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2460_30

We even recommended someone who had their tubing cloud up after about 2 months using Deadwater with a kill coil and told them to remove their kill coil.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2430_30#post_19255746
Their results 7 weeks later showed that after removing it, the new tubing was still completely fine.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2490_30#post_19608752

Here's a test someone did showing what happens to tubing when a kill coil is placed near the pump, not near the pump but still in the loop, or no kill coil. Can see that this person had some very interesting results.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/269759-29-experiment-kill-coil-electromagnetism-cloud-tubing

With many people moving past kill coils or biocides and using Mayhems dyes and additives instead, they are achieving much better results. I mean, just take a look in the forum and see how many people rave about Mayhems and have had no issues with them.


----------



## 2pacalypsenow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lareson*
> 
> What kind of tubing is it? That'll help determine the cause. Also tell us what else you used in your loop including the kind of blocks, fittings, rad, and any additives or coolants you also used.
> If you're using silver, make sure you have no nickel in you loop. Silver and nickel can cause galvanic corrosion when in the same system. Doesn't matter if you add any additives, combining these two will cause damage to any nickel in the system. This includes fittings and blocks.


Im using the XSPC RayStorm RD5EX360

http://www.svc.com/rd5ex360.html

with distilled water and PHN Biocide

is there a way to stop this from happening looks really ugly and my waterblock had some green goo when i opened it


----------



## feznz

A wee update, I have got to 14months now on same coolant and 12 months on same tubing no issues apart from reservoir started leaking so got the glue out.
I am not changing tubing or coolant leave it and see how long I can go to see if I have problems.
On my last loop, I went almost 3 years then I changed out my hardware and no sign of any problems


----------



## Lareson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2pacalypsenow*
> 
> Im using the XSPC RayStorm RD5EX360
> 
> http://www.svc.com/rd5ex360.html
> 
> with distilled water and PHN Biocide


Yep, it's your tubing. Looks like that kit came with PrimoChill PrimoFlex PRO LRT, which is currently the worst offender to producing plasticizer.

You need to get the Primoflex Advanced LRT, which so far has been the best of the tubing. If you want to get a little cheaper solution, Durelene seems to be doing pretty good as well, as that's what I'm currently running, some very slight hazing but nothing as bad as the PRO LRT.

Primoflex Advanced LRT
http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g/c99/s809/list/p1/b46/PrimoChill-Tubing-716_x_58_Tubing-Page1.html?id=JztEXjW2

Durelene
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/dupvctu7id5o.html


----------



## 2pacalypsenow

ouch 24$ plus shipping ok i guess ill buy that any other tips?


----------



## Lareson

Other than new tubing, you should be set! Just use the same mix you did before, distilled water and the correct dosage of PHN biocide.

Sad to see that there's some PRO LRT still floating around and that the kit you ordered had it. Looks like SVC still has a whole inventory of it, so I'd stay away from that site when ordering tubing. It's no wonder why they have it on sale right now.


----------



## 2pacalypsenow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lareson*
> 
> Other than new tubing, you should be set! Just use the same mix you did before, distilled water and the correct dosage of PHN biocide.
> 
> Sad to see that there's some PRO LRT still floating around and that the kit you ordered had it. Looks like SVC still has a whole inventory of it, so I'd stay away from that site when ordering tubing. It's no wonder why they have it on sale right now.


ive bought 2 things from SVC both times i had issues , when i bought the water cooling kit it took a week for them to even ship it and i paid extra for 3 day shipping then i buy a wire sleeve kit in red and they send me blue and ask me to ship it back before i get a replacement and then today i get an email that says they shipped my red kit a week later i might use a new website next time


----------



## 2pacalypsenow

got this on my fitting how can i remove it? i tried using a toothbrush to brush it off but nothing anyone?


----------



## Lareson

Depending on what it is, you may have to use vinegar or something acidic to get that off. I've seen people around here use anything from ketchup to Coke to get that kind of build-up off. Just try and not to use anything too abrasive otherwise it could damage the chrome finish.


----------



## 2pacalypsenow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2pacalypsenow*
> 
> got this on my fitting how can i remove it? i tried using a toothbrush to brush it off but nothing anyone?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lareson*
> 
> Depending on what it is, you may have to use vinegar or something acidic to get that off. I've seen people around here use anything from ketchup to Coke to get that kind of build-up off. Just try and not to use anything too abrasive otherwise it could damage the chrome finish.


its from my tubing its got plasticizer on it and it got into my fittings


----------



## huhh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2pacalypsenow*
> 
> its from my tubing its got plasticizer on it and it got into my fittings


10 : 1 ratio of water to vinegar and increase the vinegar if it's still not coming off. Heating up the water (take off orings) will also help the vinegar penetrate the junk, get a tooth brush and have at it.


----------



## Lareson

Alright, time for my input.

After running Koolance UV Red Coolant for a year now with Durelene tubing, here's my results.

Very happy to finally be done with this coolant. Due to the high concentration of dye, it pretty much stains everything with a neon shade of UV pink. Odd enough it didn't stain the tubing, meaning that the tubing didn't absorb the dye. Also was very afraid whenever I had to fill it to not get a single drop of it anywhere because it was electrically conductive. The coolant itself did a pretty good job, but had a few issues with it.

My radiator, don't know if it was from improperly cleaning it when I first installed it or what, but the whole thing reeked of a chemical metal smell. Flushed it several times with a vinegar mixture and the water was blue the first time I cleaned it. I have a feeling the rad reacted with something as everything had a blue tint to it when I cleaned it. Hardest part of cleaning my system was the VRM built onto the motherboard. Couldn't take it off, but that also had a blue tint to everything as well when I rinsed it out.

The block itself wasn't clogged but there was some of the blue sludge in it. I didn't notice anything unusual about the temps, but something obviously clumped up.


Tubing wasn't too bad. I'd give it a B+, did have some cloudiness, but nothing too severe. Does wipe off so thinking, once again, it was the coolant. Does have a blue-copper tint to it now. Looks deceiving in this picture, but it's not that green.


Changed out all of the tubing, went with Durelene again as I still had a ton of it left, but this time, I got Mayhems deep red dye and distilled water instead for coolant. I like this red much better than the faux red the Koolance coolant tried to be. Also did some layout changes as well, picked up a few 90 degree fittings and move my res to where I've been wanting it since I put the system together.


If it came down to picking tubing again and budget strapped, I'd pick up Durelene again. I'd rather pay $0.50 a foot for good tubing that I'm going to be changing out every year than $2.50 a foot for pricey tubing from a company with a spotty history. Hoping with switching to Mayhems dye and distilled water, it'll get rid of a lot of the issues I had previously.


----------



## JackNaylorPE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lareson*
> 
> Does have a blue-copper tint to it now. Looks deceiving in this picture, but it's not that green.


Copper sulfate is oft used as a fungicide / algeacide and is also formed when copper reacts with oxidizing acids. If otherwise present, can be precipitated out if glycols present.

In the presence of oxygen, oxides will form on copper surfaces (think tarnish on a penny), this can be precipated off by reaction with citric acid (lemons) or vinegar. The acid solution weakens the bonds that formed between the copper and oxygen atoms to create the copper oxide.


----------



## Lareson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackNaylorPE*
> 
> Copper sulfate is oft used as a fungicide / algecide and is also formed when copper reacts with acids. If otherwise present, can be precipitated out in glycols present.


I have a feeling that would of been the case. The Koolance coolants are about 30% propylene glycol and I have an all copper system. I know I won't be using their coolants in the near future. I didn't add anything else besides the coolant last time as I knew the coolant alone was enough to prevent algae and bacterial growth.


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackNaylorPE*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Lareson*
> 
> Does have a blue-copper tint to it now. Looks deceiving in this picture, but it's not that green.
> 
> 
> 
> Copper sulfate is oft used as a fungicide / algeacide and is also formed when copper reacts with oxidizing acids. If otherwise present, can be precipitated out if glycols present.
> 
> In the presence of oxygen, oxides will form on copper surfaces (think tarnish on a penny), this can be precipated off by reaction with citric acid (lemons) or vinegar. The acid solution weakens the bonds that formed between the copper and oxygen atoms to create the copper oxide.
Click to expand...

You want to leave any copper oxide on as this forms a highly corrosive resistant coating,by removing it all you are doing is reopening up the block to more oxidization.


----------



## JackNaylorPE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> You want to leave any copper oxide on as this forms a highly corrosive resistant coating,by removing it all you are doing is reopening up the block to more oxidization.


I wasn't suggesting it be removed.... just offering a possible explanation of where his blue sludge came from. Don't see any impact from removing it as in the presence of more oxygen it will simply return over time, returning it to original condition..... and it does take significant time. Just like removing the tarnish off a 30 year old penny.... in another 30 years it will look the same again. If ya did that 20 times.... I imagine the image would begin to suffer but if ya wanna protect it fir 600 years, bet bet would to put it in protective enclosure.

The oxide does affect cooling tho to an extent. Best approach is to avoid the oxidation ever occurring by preventing oxidation from ever taking place. Unlike copper's mineral structure, oxidized copper has a crystalline molecular structure and as such is typically less able to transfer heat.

Since he's already cleaned it, using a corrosion inhibitor could ease concerns about additional oxidation.


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackNaylorPE*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> You want to leave any copper oxide on as this forms a highly corrosive resistant coating,by removing it all you are doing is reopening up the block to more oxidization.
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't suggesting it be removed.... just offering a possible explanation of where his blue sludge came from. Don't see any impact from removing it as in the presence of more oxygen it will simply return over time, returning it to original condition..... and it does take significant time. Just like removing the tarnish off a 30 year old penny.... in another 30 years it will look the same again. If ya did that 20 times.... I imagine the image would begin to suffer but if ya wanna protect it fir 600 years, bet bet would to put it in protective enclosure.
> 
> The oxide does affect cooling tho to an extent. Best approach is to avoid the oxidation ever occurring by preventing oxidation from ever taking place. Unlike copper's mineral structure, oxidized copper has a crystalline molecular structure and as such is typically less able to transfer heat.
> 
> Since he's already cleaned it, using a corrosion inhibitor could ease concerns about additional oxidation.
Click to expand...

We have talked about oxygen scavengers before I think....

The layer is so small that it wont affect temps in any way,much like Nickel or Chrome doesnt affect temps.


----------



## JackNaylorPE

No laughing ..... but I have had extensive discussions on this topic in another arena .... cooking pots..... convection heat is greatly affected by the oxidizing layer.... seems heat gets into it well enough but can be as much as 1/20th coming off..... conduction is less affected but still present.....single digit percentages in cooking but that's with accounting that the insulating layer just sends out heat parallel to the coating where it travel up sides of pot where it will still heat contents.... that effect won't help ya tho on a block as contact area is limited.

Considering the amount of copper in a rad....I would leave one just sitting a round and letting it oxidize while sitting around doing nothing. It's not something that would want me to take apart a loop and get rid of, but taking preventative measures to avoid is to my mind worthwhile.

OTOH, adding an engineered coolant to prevent such occurrences can easily have an equal or greater impact on temps so two sides to the coin.


----------



## M3TAl

Plasticizer problem or something else?

Been using this Durelene since like Dec. 30th 2013 with Mayhems Pastel Ice White. The tubing is turning what looks like to my eyes a greenish color. Hopefully the pics can somewhat show what my eyes are seeing.

Took a wire brush thing that's for scrubbing tubing, it didn't remove anything. Whatever the coloring is it's in the walls of the tubing and doesn't come off so I guess plasticizer?

The tubing in the back is old and looks greenish. The tubing in the front is new from leftover tubing just added few hours ago, looks nice and clear.


----------



## kizwan

If it doesn't come out when you scrub it, then it's not plasticizer. It look to me the tube is yellowing which is normal.


----------



## Lareson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> Plasticizer problem or something else?
> 
> Been using this Durelene since like Dec. 30th 2013 with Mayhems Pastel Ice White. The tubing is turning what looks like to my eyes a greenish color. Hopefully the pics can somewhat show what my eyes are seeing.
> 
> Took a wire brush thing that's for scrubbing tubing, it didn't remove anything. Whatever the coloring is it's in the walls of the tubing and doesn't come off so I guess plasticizer?
> 
> The tubing in the back is old and looks greenish. The tubing in the front is new from leftover tubing just added few hours ago, looks nice and clear.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Pics




It would be the copper in your system turning the tubing green. Mine had the same tint, although it appeared in a 12-mo period versus yours when it's fairly new, as in the image above.



Plasticizer, when it leaches from tubing, is a white powdery substance, as seen in the image above, so it's for sure not that.

Did you rinse out your radiator at all before you installed it? A weak solution of water and vinegar is what many recommend doing when setting up a radiator for the first time. I wouldn't fret over the tubing turning green. Just the way the copper is dissolved in the coolant and is absorbed into the tubing. I'd be more worried if your coolant would be turning green or blue, as that would indicate something is causing the copper in the loop to oxidize rapidly.


----------



## DerComissar

That is a common issue with Durelene tubing, but it isn't plasticizer. I'm also running Durelene tubing and Mayhems Pastel Ice White, and my tubing also developed a greenish tinge after a few months. But after draining the loop, the tubing has no plasticizer deposits on it, just the discoloration. I filtered the Mayhems coolant through a coffee filter to re-use it, as Mick from Mayhems suggested, and it remains nice and white as new.


----------



## M3TAl

The coolant itself still looks fine. Really surprised this happened so fast. The radiators were rinsed heavily on two separate occasions. The 2nd time I gave them the super duper Harlem radiator shake 2-3 times, almost nothing came out. Mostly what came out was the exterior finishing coming off from the G1/4 threads.

I'm just going to live with it for now. Told myself I'm done spending money on the PC and definitely not willing to shell out the $40-50 for premium tubing at the moment.


----------



## DerComissar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> The coolant itself still looks fine. Really surprised this happened so fast. The radiators were rinsed heavily on two separate occasions. The 2nd time I gave them the super duper Harlem radiator shake 2-3 times, almost nothing came out. Mostly what came out was the exterior finishing coming off from the G1/4 threads.
> 
> I'm just going to live with it for now. Told myself I'm done spending money on the PC and definitely not willing to shell out the $40-50 for premium tubing at the moment.


It seems to be an issue with the Durelene tubing, at least in the cases I've seen so far. But I'll take that over plasticizer anytime.
I don't plan on spending big bucks for premium tubing just yet either, I'd rather live with it for now, as it's just cosmetic.


----------



## M3TAl

Sad face







. Wasn't aware of this issue with Durelene. It had a lot of recommendations around the interwebs as the best affordable tubing. I could of gone with white tubing but I'm not fond of the looks. Prefer clear tubing and Ice White







, when it's not turning green tint of course.


----------



## Lareson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> Sad face
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Wasn't aware of this issue with Durelene. It had a lot of recommendations around the interwebs as the best affordable tubing. I could of gone with white tubing but I'm not fond of the looks. Prefer clear tubing and Ice White
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , when it's not turning green tint of course.


I can't imagine it would of been too noticeable, but then again, you were running a white coolant so the tubing could of made it look green. I'd like to know though what it looks like with the Pastel in it.


----------



## M3TAl

I'm not sure I can get an accurate representation of it with a Lumia 920 phone... It doesn't look that bad, it just looks "off" and not how it was when brand new. It just annoys me, wish it looked how it was day one.

The two straight runs with the 4 90 deg fittings is 1 new piece of tubing and one used green tinted one. Maybe that will somewhat show what it looks like. The one on the left (NB to mosfet) is new tubing, the right (cpu to NB) is old tubing.

Notice how that one piece of new tubing looks nicer than all the others. Guess throwing that in makes it much more obvious but didn't have a choice. I had been noticing the past few days the tubing was starting to look different, in a bad way.


----------



## Lareson

That is turning green much faster than I've seen it before. Like I said previously, mine looked that green after a year. Did you check your radiator when you drained it? You probably should of if you didn't as that could be the cause of the copper "leaking" into your loop faster than normal. I would normally not worry about it, but it turning green in a little over a week has me a bit suspicious.


----------



## M3TAl

Check the radiator for what exactly? The inside of the tanks just looked like regular ole copper. My Pastel mix might of been slightly diluted. I leak tested with distilled water for few hours first then drained. Of course there was still some distilled left behind before filling with Pastel. Mixed the Pastel with ~650-700 ml distilled instead of the 750 ml to try and account for this.


----------



## Lareson

Oh, sorry, should of clarified. Should check for any blue or green coloring inside of it. Reason why I'm asking is because your system seems to have an excess amount of copper in it and the tubing is absorbing it. This should only happen over a long period of time, years, not a week.


----------



## DerComissar

I took a couple quick shots of mine, the first photo shows the difference between the "tinted" Durelene top tube, and the new Durelene bottom tube I fitted recently when I replaced my 7950's.
The second photo shows the same tinted tube, compared to the EK acrylic block top. Both shots show the "recycled" Mayhems Pastel coolant.
I flushed my rads, etc. very thoroughly before initially running the loop, and I ran distilled through it for a couple days during the leak test, before draining and filling with the Mayhems.
I have a mostly-copper Alphacool Monsta rad, along with the EK copper block, so there is certainly plenty of copper present.

But it's better than having plasticizer issues.


----------



## M3TAl

Really don't know why it only took 1-2 weeks. It sucks but what can you do. I'm not draining again lol, time to finally put her to use.


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> Check the radiator for what exactly? The inside of the tanks just looked like regular ole copper. My Pastel mix might of been slightly diluted. I leak tested with distilled water for few hours first then drained. Of course there was still some distilled left behind before filling with Pastel. Mixed the Pastel with ~650-700 ml distilled instead of the 750 ml to try and account for this.


The same thing happened to pOPe 's build,it was the coolant,not the radiator.


----------



## kizwan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DerComissar*
> 
> It seems to be an issue with the Durelene tubing, at least in the cases I've seen so far. But I'll take that over plasticizer anytime.
> I don't plan on spending big bucks for premium tubing just yet either, I'd rather live with it for now, as it's just cosmetic.


Even premium tubing like Primochill Primoflex Advanced LRT will also slightly yellowing over time. The Mayhems Pastel Blue Berry that I use, hide it very well. Honestly I don't know any clear tubing that remain clear over time.


----------



## M3TAl

Well this was in little over a week and it's green instead of yellow.


----------



## JackNaylorPE

It would appear, since it doesn't wipe off that's it is staining ...... getting absorbed by the tubing itself..... the statistic too look at here is "water absorption"

Tygon 2475 for example has extremely low water absorption compared to other tubing .... 29:1 ration in two popular tubings from same manufacturer.


----------



## Skoobs

this tubing just came out of my rig which has been running with the same tubing for a year. One fluid change in the middle, I believe.




it scrapes off with my finger... not the nail, just my finger. It is like a powder.

This is the tubing I was using:


----------



## Lareson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skoobs*
> 
> this tubing just came out of my rig which has been running with the same tubing for a year. One fluid change in the middle, I believe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it scrapes off with my finger... not the nail, just my finger. It is like a powder.


That would be plasticizer. What kind of tubing did you have?


----------



## Skoobs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lareson*
> 
> That would be plasticizer. What kind of tubing did you have?




original post updated as well.

I picked up some Tygon S-50-HL which arrived at the same time as my new graphics card (couldnt have been better timing) so when I switched out my graphics card, I switched out half of the tubing. I am sure some people have tried this tubing. What kind of luck have other had with it?


----------



## Lareson

Yep, that'd be why. The Primochill Primoflex Pro LRT is the worst tubing to use as it has the highest rate of plasticizing out of the many that have been used. It's the newer Primoflex Advance LRT that is so far plasticizing-free. It's unfortunate that there are still some shops that carry the Pro tubing, and Primochill themselves discontinued it.

I tried searching in the forums to see if anyone has used that Tygon tubing you posted, but didn't come up with any results. I'm assuming since it's medical grade, should be fine, and since it looks like it works for blood, can't imagine why it wouldn't for water with a few additives.


----------



## Jsmpick

I've had my newly installed loop sat dormant for two weeks (its only been run for < 30mins in its life)

XSPC Clear Tubing
Distilled water only

All components were cleaned out with distilled water prior to install.

Yet I've noticed this white gunk in the tubes... it seems to be coating the tubes, as you can see in the image, where the clump has formed, the tube behind it is clear.

Any ideas what this is?


----------



## PepeLapiu

Hi guys.

I decided to build an all hard pipes loop (10mm copper) partly to avoid the flexible tubing problems. But I want to hang my pumps by their tubing as to avoid all noise and vibrations coming from the pumps. So I will need to put in a couple feet at most of flexible tubing after all.

Any concensus on the best tubing I can use? Color is not important.


----------



## JackNaylorPE

The vibrations will be transmitted along the tubing with no dampening as it is rigid. My build is rigid acrylic and I used two short flexible tubs to dampen vibrations from the pump to the rest of the loop. There used to be a Aeroquip shop near me..... they made custom length stainless steel braided cable ....I needed a pair for the hydraulics on my outboard motor and got them there.... took ten minutes and $3 each. Would love to do a build with that stuff Maybe ya cud use something like this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/COPPER-FLEXIBLE-METAL-HOSE-WITH-BRAID-2-PIECE-LOT-FREE-SHIPPING-USED-AS-IS-/290921279366?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43bc426f86

Tho that guy's nutz at $85


----------



## PepeLapiu

Not too keen on introducing more metals into my loop. I want to keep it strictly copper and brass.
But you get the idea. I want to hang the pump by two flexible tubes to dampen vibrations and noise.
I'm just asking which tubing has the least problems with plasticizer leaching out.


----------



## MengNa

I used Primochill PrimoFlex Pro LRT Black Tubing 3/8 X 5/8in in my previous loop. Bought at PPCs
Components were Koolance 370 CPU block, Swiftech MCR-320 and a Swiftech MCP35X pump with the optional reservoir. Used distilled with a silver killcoil and a couple of drops of Nuke-CU to begin with.
Ran the loop for 2 years with a single top off, and when I pulled it apart the tubing was as good as new, still very supple and no clouding.
There was no noticeable amount of plasticizer in the system, and the only things that seemed to look used was the CPU block internally and the reservoir got a bit cloudy. Forgot to take postmortem pictures of the tubes, unfortunately.
Overall I was very pleased with the quality and for my new loop I got the newer PrimoFlex Advanced LRT that finally comes in purple.


----------



## JackNaylorPE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PepeLapiu*
> 
> Not too keen on introducing more metals into my loop. I want to keep it strictly copper and brass.
> But you get the idea. I want to hang the pump by two flexible tubes to dampen vibrations and noise.
> I'm just asking which tubing has the least problems with plasticizer leaching out.


Don't understand .... mixing copper with copper is bad ?

If it's of any value to ya .... I used Tygon 2475..... be advised there;s a lot of tubing that when they say plasticizer free is not actually platicizer free. For example, look at whereever they sell this .... it is sold as

"Tygon E-1000 3/8" ID (1/2" OD) - Plasticizer Free Flexible Tubing (ADK00027)"

But the fine priny says"

"Tygon® E-1000 Non-DEHP Laboratory Tubing delivers the same superior performance you have come to expect from Tygon® tubing but now in a formulation that contains non-DEHP [Bis (2-ethylhexyl) phthalate] plasticizers."

So it has plasticizers but they are non-DEHP" type









On the other hand Tygon 2475 has no plasticizers whatsover and if ya not going to do tight bends, that is after all why tubing has plasticizers ... to make it bendable..... more importantly it's water absorption is 0.01 compared for example with E-1000's 0.29 .... that is indicative of it's resistance to staining.....lower = better.


----------



## kizwan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackNaylorPE*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *PepeLapiu*
> 
> Not too keen on introducing more metals into my loop. I want to keep it strictly copper and brass.
> But you get the idea. I want to hang the pump by two flexible tubes to dampen vibrations and noise.
> I'm just asking which tubing has the least problems with plasticizer leaching out.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't understand .... mixing copper with copper is bad ?
Click to expand...

LOL. You think too much. What PepeLapiu meant was only two types of metal going to be in the loop or more precisely only two types of metal "touching" the coolant; copper & brass. No nickel & no silver.


----------



## PepeLapiu

Turns out his braided cable he linked to is copper. I don't know what the inside is made of tho. But I didn't bother to click it because he mentionbed Stainless Steel in his message, not copper.

But I think I worry too much anyway. Only a foot or two of soft tubing, even if it leaches out plasticizer, is not likely to cause any great deal of damage.


----------



## kizwan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PepeLapiu*
> 
> Turns out his braided cable he linked to is copper. I don't know what the inside is made of tho. But I didn't bother to click it because he mentionbed Stainless Steel in his message, not copper.
> 
> But I think I worry too much anyway. Only a foot or two of soft tubing, even if it leaches out plasticizer, is not likely to cause any great deal of damage.


Just go get Primochill Primoflex *Advanced* LRT tube. It free plasticizer.


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PepeLapiu*
> 
> Hi guys.
> 
> I decided to build an all hard pipes loop (10mm copper) partly to avoid the flexible tubing problems. But I want to hang my pumps by their tubing as to avoid all noise and vibrations coming from the pumps. So I will need to put in a couple feet at most of flexible tubing after all.
> 
> Any concensus on the best tubing I can use? Color is not important.


Because the tube sits in an o-ring,there is not a lot of transmitted vibration. A pair of D-plugs with the dual o-rings would also serve as an excellent vibration damper.


----------



## JackNaylorPE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kizwan*
> 
> LOL. You think too much. What PepeLapiu meant was only two types of metal going to be in the loop or more precisely only two types of metal "touching" the coolant; copper & brass. No nickel & no silver.


No, that wasn't it, I gave him an example of a custom made hose for my outboard motor saying one "like that" .... and then I pointed him to similar hoses made of copper..... he didn't click the link and thot I was suggesting SS.


----------



## ajaney

dude a system with those tubes in it would look so beast. has anyone ever done that?


----------



## PepeLapiu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> Because the tube sits in an o-ring,there is not a lot of transmitted vibration. A pair of D-plugs with the dual o-rings would also serve as an excellent vibration damper.


I plan on using the Aquatuning 'cheap looking' plastic push-fit fittings. So I am not sure what you are talking about. Got an exampke of "D-plug"?
And you think my push-fits will transmit vibrations?


----------



## B NEGATIVE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PepeLapiu*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *B NEGATIVE*
> 
> Because the tube sits in an o-ring,there is not a lot of transmitted vibration. A pair of D-plugs with the dual o-rings would also serve as an excellent vibration damper.
> 
> 
> 
> I plan on using the Aquatuning 'cheap looking' plastic push-fit fittings. So I am not sure what you are talking about. Got an exampke of "D-plug"?
> And you think my push-fits will transmit vibrations?
Click to expand...

I use the metal versions with no noise issues at all.



BP D plug. Also allows the pump to be removed easily and are also good for GPU bridges


----------



## wermad

Was shopping at Homes when i noticed some of the Watts tubing was a bit more stiff then the stuff I bought a couple of years ago. That old stuff plasticized in a few weeks and it was softer then this new one. I bought a roll of 10' since it was cheap (~$6) and setup a small sample w/ only distilled and some Mayhems UV Green. I've been checking it every few days for the last two weeks and though there's a slight haze, no plasticize on it. I actually bought some of the older LRT from jab-tech (on clearance) and that went within a couple of weeks and you noticed the build up. This Watts, its got a slight haze much like the clear Advance. The color still looks good and so I'm proceeding w/ installing it on my loop and see how lone it lasts. If it does go, I'll get a roll of Pearl Green Advance. I'll take pics in a few days of this test sample.


----------



## PepeLapiu

Yo Werm,
I thought you were going with hard pipes.
Did you change you mind?
Or is this a new build?


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PepeLapiu*
> 
> Yo Werm,
> I thought you were going with hard pipes.
> Did you change you mind?
> Or is this a new build?


I abandoned that since it was uber hard to get the bends right. This was before the forming tools. I'm still not convinced its for me so I'm still using good ol' nylon tube. This is a new build i have going on w/ a new compression fitting size and color. I hope the Watts holds so I don't have to buy a roll of Advance


----------



## M3TAl

I'm interested how the watts hold up.


----------



## wermad

Well, it held ok. Its by no means clear but its a bit more cloudy then the Primochill Adv. clear. This is actually a lot more stiffer then the Advance (and this is considered stiff vs the old LRT). Ind the end, i abandoned this setup since it was putting too much stain on my parts. I have a bunch of blocks so I've decided to downsize and just pick up a roll of pearl green advance.

For those who don't care and are ok w/ it clouding slowly, Watts tube is cheap. 1/2x3/4 is ~$6 for 10' while the 3/8x1/2 is ~$4 at Home Depot. I wouldn't go w/ the 1/2x3/4 for a complex setup tbh.

here's my new tube:


----------



## hajnalka

this is plasticizer?

Flush all water in system

Color water is normal

Any dirt in flushed water.

GPU block is clear

Only CPU block is dirty.Why?What is it?

Tube is normal color is normal transparent.


----------



## feznz

looks like dust from leaving coolant out in the open


----------



## Lareson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hajnalka*
> 
> this is plasticizer?
> 
> Flush all water in system
> 
> Color water is normal
> 
> Any dirt in flushed water.
> 
> GPU block is clear
> 
> Only CPU block is dirty.Why?What is it?
> 
> Tube is normal color is normal transparent.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [


Sorry for the really late reply, but that to me doesn't look like plasticizer. Looks like some sort of gel. Plasticizer is a white powder-like substance that forms only on the tubing and it only separates when there's an excess amount of it built-up. What kind of coolant did you use as some of them has a tendency to separate and gel up.


----------



## lazyfrench

Bought PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT Tubing on 6-10-13 today is 5-7-14. I've only used a Silver Kill Coil and Distilled water.

Yesterday when I went to tear down my loop there were little plasticizer mountains in all of the lines little scratches under the lines. They weren't terrible by any means, but there was definitely a presence.

From reading multiple forums on this, I think anyone is going to run into plasticizer problems with any pipe, and that basic system maintenance will keep it to a minimum.

The Clear PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT Tubing is good to go at 11 months.


----------



## Scarlet-Tech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lazyfrench*
> 
> Bought PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT Tubing on 6-10-13 today is 5-7-14. I've only used a Silver Kill Coil and Distilled water.
> 
> Yesterday when I went to tear down my loop there were little plasticizer mountains in all of the lines. They weren't terrible by any means, but there was definitely a presence.
> 
> From reading multiple forums on this, I think anyone is going to run into plasticizer problems with any pipe, and that basic system maintenance will keep it to a minimum.


I just received my Primochill. What color did you use, and would you mind posting pictures?


----------



## lazyfrench

I used 3/8" x 1/2" Clear that I received from FCPU. I will see what I can get put together for pictures, but it will be several hours away... just started the work day.

Clear PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT Tubing doesn't have ANY ISSUES at 11 months. It's a little dusty and has some scratches but definitely has no plasticizer anywhere.


----------



## Scarlet-Tech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lazyfrench*
> 
> I used 3/8" x 1/2" Clear that I received from FCPU. I will see what I can get put together for pictures, but it will be several hours away... just started the work day.


LOL, no worries. I am 4 hours into a 12 hour shift. I ordered my tubing from Frozen as well, and have the 1/2x3/4. I have been using 3/8x5/ō matte black, and just wanted to see the fluids now.


----------



## hajnalka

This is glue of Alphacool repack









http://www.alphacool.com/product_info.php/info/p1098_Alphacool-Repack---Laing-DDC---5-25-Bay-Station.html

Back side this reservoir is new plastic glued to old type without ddc support.

http://cdn.overclock.net/f/f3/f3e71b32_res_4.jpeg

water push this glue to system water cooling.

This repack don't used 1year using EKWB repack reservoir and ddc

All this glue is maybe come to radiator back to new system water cooling.

http://www.vortez.net/index.php?ct=articles&action=file&id=22322


----------



## 3930sabertooth

So I've been reading this old thread and have Primochill Primoflex PRO LRT and its gone cloudy from Plasticizeing. So I looked on EKWB's website and they had this to say:

http://www.ekwb.com/support/index.php?act=article&code=view&id=25

Also Don't Use Tygon R-3603 Clear Tubing.

I have ordered this:

http://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-tube-zmt-matte-black-15-9-9-5mm.html

Also do people flush their Radiators properly? They have lots of dust, flux, metal particles left inside them from the manufacturing process.

Hope this helps.


----------



## lazyfrench

How old was your Primochill Primoflex PRO LRT. Did you have dyes in it? PT Nuke?


----------



## VidFail

I thought that Primochill Advanced LRT doesn't have plasticizer? So what is this then?



I've been running my loop for about 8 months I'd say. I took it apart yesterday because I'm planning on cleaning it and adding a couple radiators. I found this evenly coated white powder inside every length of tubing in the loop. Additionally, while I was cleaning out my radiators and blocks, there are little black bits of something along with the typical greenish copper oxidation water.



Finally, and I have no idea what this is either, but there is this black residue on my cpu block. Any ideas on what it could be? For a bit more information... I'm using distilled water in my loop with a couple drops of PT Nuke (the copper sulfate version). I've read that this might be oxidation, but isn't oxidation typically green? Either way... is this something I should be concerned about? Will it hurt anything to put the cpu block right back in the system? Is there an effective way of cleaning it without damaging the copper?



Sorry for abundance of questions... some of which are straying off-topic. I almost think I should just make my own thread...


----------



## Megatron_Zero

I am using Clear tubing from a Italian company called AlfaGomma, a company that makes high quality tubing, everything from basic water tubes to high pressure hydraulic tubes.

I bought clear tubing from them that is certified for food and beverage usage in the food industry.
I rinsed my radiators according to this forum and I was very thorough about having them 100% clean before installing them.
After leak testing for 24hrs I added Mayhems UV laser green to my loop under UV lighting, 4 drops of dye and I got a very vibrant and nice green color.
After 1 week the tubing was starting to cloud up and the UV green looked like someone had mixed it with milk, I also saw white particles floating in my reservoir if my system was not running.

I took my loop apart and once it had all dried out my reservoir was coated on the inside with white powder residue, it was not hard to remove, I could wipe it off with my finger and so was my tubing, the white powder had a slight green tint to it, not much but I could notice it.

After cleaning my reservoir and fittings I put the loop back together, I had plenty of tubing left from the first assembly so there was no need to use the old ones. I did not add any dye, just DI water and nothing more. It's now been three weeks and the tubing is just as clear as the day I put it together, no indication of white residue in my reservoir or tubing.

Seems quite obvious that the dye was causing it but I am not going to put that stuff in my loop again, there is no need for me to buy new tubing any time soon if my loop will remain this clean as it has for the last 3 weeks, might buy some coloured tubing someday but not having to worry about this damn plasticizer is a great relief.


----------



## Eze2kiel

Coolant: 25%Glycol+75% Demineralized water.










After 3 months using Durelene tubing. Pump turn on 24/7:



















Conclusion: Durelene RULEZ!


----------



## lazyfrench

As I stated above, I used silver and distilled water in my Primochill Advanced LRT with no issues for 11 months. Nothing else was put in the system.


----------



## indiyet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I'm back again.This tubing was added on June 23 / 2012 post #863 35 Days with Mayhems Red Dye + Distilled Water.Again today is the Dust clean day BHD and Wife's PC down for Dust clean.
> 
> [*] *A*s you can see Durelene had cloud up a bit and we all know the Durelene is not Plasticizer free.But for 35 days running 24/7 this is good result. and looks like it won't cloud far more ,Post mentioned above . 16months with *Filtered tap water and PTnuke and Duralene.* post #755 and very ODD when tubing is wet ( I mean water inside it won't show any cloud in the tubing only if you get a virgin tubing and put it side by side. My Distilled Water + Mayhems Red Dye had never changed its color while it was running.
> 
> [*] I may not be 100% right but a none free plasticizer tubing cloud bad because of the cloud stuff buildup inside that's were the DYE stain it so bad. But looks like this is no the Mayhems Dye
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Durelene had clouded but not stained by Mayhems Dye.
> 
> [*] Durelene has resisted cold and heat for the cheap price its not bad at all. This is how it looks like after I had cut the tubing in half and cleaned it with my finger. It come out very easy. I had to rotate the camera view angle for in all my shots to make sure the light reflection won't messed up my pics so no doubt. you know what is the wiped clear tubing below
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank for all you guys support. I will continue all my tests for more several months and i will try to keep this thread update as much as I can.
> 
> PS: sorry for the Lego and Dinosaurs Books LOL my son kevin "my 7 old" was helping me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/LIST]


This is very useful, great info man.
This completely kick my doubts about whether or not to buy clear hose for my Rig.
You can please confirm if this hose show below is the same one you used? I will buy a couple of feet tomorrow and I don't wanna sorry for that later. Thank you.
http://www.pcmodd.com.ar/index.php?action=carro/showProduct&itmId=647&rbrId=99


----------



## NASzi

the durelene works well though I noticed after around 6 months, mine was starting to show a slight hint of green, no plasticizer though!


----------



## indiyet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NASzi*
> 
> the durelene works well though I noticed after around 6 months, mine was starting to show a slight hint of green, no plasticizer though!


Thanks for your answear dude








Already decided to buy that tubing, now i have a dilemma for the loop in full parallel.
Just started a tread about it today.


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NASzi*
> 
> the durelene works well though I noticed after around 6 months, mine was starting to show a slight hint of green, no plasticizer though!


The green is most likely the Pastel Ice White PH dropping below 7 from crud in the radiators. Same happened to mine.


----------



## JackNaylorPE

Be aware ..... fill a cup with distilled water and leave on table, go to bed.... in morning run pH test .... in morning it will be 5.5 - 5.6.

Water will absorb carbon dioxide from air => carbonic acid. I wonder how this affects the pH / pastel interaction.


----------



## INCREDIBLEHULK

Duralene or Primochill advanced LRT ?

I've been using primochill for a while, after my last flush i've noticed that a nasty coloring on my clear tubing. At first I thought it had something to do with running uv lights 24/7.... I might just leave the tubing on for 3-6months and then do a full breakdown of my rig to clean rads blocks and switch out tubing. ( i have a bad habit of flushing and changing color of coolant monthly







)


----------



## kcuestag

Primochill Advanced LRT. Yellowish colour will always appear on the tubing no matter what brand it is, but at least the Advanced LRT is plasticizer-free.


----------



## INCREDIBLEHULK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NASzi*
> 
> the durelene works well though I noticed after around 6 months, mine was starting to show a slight hint of green, no plasticizer though!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kcuestag*
> 
> Primochill Advanced LRT. Yellowish colour will always appear on the tubing no matter what brand it is, but at least the Advanced LRT is plasticizer-free.


Yeah, this time I was worried because one of the tubes is almost fully yellow and not clear anymore







it is also sitting 1inch from a huge UV LED strip in which I have to assume has a big role in it

What I don't understand is this didn't occur this bad with the mayhems pastel red in the loop... Coolant is milky white inside my blocks but the tubing and reservoir seems to have suffered a bit of discoloring


----------



## JackNaylorPE

I'm going on 9 months on the Tygon 2475 w/ 2 bottles of pastel red + 2 bottled of red dye

95% of it is rigid acrylic but used two short (2.5 - 3.0) lengths of flexible tubing for vibration isolaltion in and out of the 35x2. Looks same as it did day it went in.


----------



## paradoxum

I recently changed my loop from 1/2 ID 3/4 OD tubing, I was using the blood red Primochill Primoflex Pro LRT (damn that stuff is stiff, at least the 3/8" ID - 1/2" OD I switched to (same brand and colour) was easier to work with, but it's still thick tubing. Very hard to kink.

Anyway, after taking it apart and cutting the tubes apart, there was absolutely no leeching or anything at all like that, I was really happy with that after going through so many brands that ended up filling the loop with junk. I was running the tubing since I don't know, a few weeks after it came out in the US? I had to import it at that point. So since then and mine was fine, just adding me experience here.

Oh, and just de-ionized water with biocide.


----------



## YP5 Toronto

Feser Tube UV Hose - 3/8" ID - 1/2" OD - BLACK (non UV)
2 yrs of use.
Distilled Water + Silver Kill Coil

noticed my flow rate was down... wasn't paying attention to the reservoir.

this was what was floating on top (there was more, maybe 3x as much)



Never has issues before.

Looking at tubing there is build up.

Going to leave as is for now as I will be doing a 5960x build or a dual Xeon build in the next few months.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *INCREDIBLEHULK*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *NASzi*
> 
> the durelene works well though I noticed after around 6 months, mine was starting to show a slight hint of green, no plasticizer though!
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kcuestag*
> 
> Primochill Advanced LRT. Yellowish colour will always appear on the tubing no matter what brand it is, but at least the Advanced LRT is plasticizer-free.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, this time I was worried because one of the tubes is almost fully yellow and not clear anymore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it is also sitting 1inch from a huge UV LED strip in which I have to assume has a big role in it
> 
> What I don't understand is this didn't occur this bad with the mayhems pastel red in the loop... Coolant is milky white inside my blocks but the tubing and reservoir seems to have suffered a bit of discoloring
Click to expand...

It's not your UV lights, mine did the same thing with only white LED very subtle behind and my rig is never exposed to any sun light and far from my windows anyways. My desk lamp is also full LED.

It turns yellow for me as well.

- Advanced LRT

- Mayhem Pastel White (that's all 250ml mix with 750ml distilled water)

- All Nickel Plated Blocks

- Nickel fittings

- Copper Rad

It's yellowish and green, it is almost like old school plastic turns color. Super Nintendo, you know what I mean?


----------



## kcuestag

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> It's not your UV lights, mine did the same thing with only white LED very subtle behind and my rig is never exposed to any sun light and far from my windows anyways. My desk lamp is also full LED.
> 
> It turns yellow for me as well.
> 
> - Advanced LRT
> - Mayhem Pastel White (that's all 250ml mix with 750ml distilled water)
> - All Nickel Plated Blocks
> - Nickel fittings
> - Copper Rad
> 
> It's yellowish and green, it is almost like old school plastic turns color. Super Nintendo, you know what I mean?


Yes. Apparently it's normal for the tubing when the coolant inside hits above 35ºC for a long period of time, which sucks, because hitting 35ºC on a loop is very easy, specially in summer.


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> It's not your UV lights, mine did the same thing with only white LED very subtle behind and my rig is never exposed to any sun light and far from my windows anyways. My desk lamp is also full LED.
> 
> It turns yellow for me as well.
> 
> - Advanced LRT
> - Mayhem Pastel White (that's all 250ml mix with 750ml distilled water)
> - All Nickel Plated Blocks
> - Nickel fittings
> - Copper Rad
> 
> It's yellowish and green, it is almost like old school plastic turns color. Super Nintendo, you know what I mean?


Green? What rads are you using. Alphacool/Phobya rads cause this with white pastel if not cleaned with Mayhems Blitz kit. Happened to my white pastel (didn't know about the issues with Alphacool rads at the time).

Also looking in the blocks/res the pastel might seem white compared to the tubing but once you drain... it really isn't very white at all.

Pretty nasty... Fresh pastel vs drained from that green mess.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> It's not your UV lights, mine did the same thing with only white LED very subtle behind and my rig is never exposed to any sun light and far from my windows anyways. My desk lamp is also full LED.
> 
> It turns yellow for me as well.
> 
> - Advanced LRT
> - Mayhem Pastel White (that's all 250ml mix with 750ml distilled water)
> - All Nickel Plated Blocks
> - Nickel fittings
> - Copper Rad
> 
> It's yellowish and green, it is almost like old school plastic turns color. Super Nintendo, you know what I mean?
> 
> 
> 
> Green? What rads are you using. Alphacool/Phobya rads cause this with white pastel if not cleaned with Mayhems Blitz kit. Happened to my white pastel (didn't know about the issues with Alphacool rads at the time).
> 
> Also looking in the blocks/res the pastel might seem white compared to the tubing but once you drain... it really isn't very white at all.
> 
> Pretty nasty... Fresh pastel vs drained from that green mess.
Click to expand...

I have a 200mm Phobya rad but the Pastel Ice White is still white, it's the tube I meant yellowish and a bit of green while running. My CPU and GPU block has a clear view and the Pastel color unchanged for the past 6 months.

As other said, I believe is the temperature because I have a tube sticks out for drain purpose. That tube is filled with White Pastel but never has the same temperature as the running loop. More like the dead end of the tube.

That drain tube remain clear as new compare to the other part of the loop. So I believe if the temp rise up, it changes the color of the tube.


----------



## failwheeldrive

Idiot friend took over computer for a minute, please delete


----------



## valkyrie743

need your guys opinion. want to know if this is plasticizer that's in my system. tubing im using is primochill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT clear. using Mayhems X1 clear coolant with Mayhems Dark Blue dye






here is a picture of the system as a whole. as you can see the tubing is not hazy so i have no idea what's going on.


----------



## YP5 Toronto

Yes.


----------



## valkyrie743

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YP5 Toronto*
> 
> Yes.


what tubing should i buy? I'm going to tear down my rig soon but not sure what tubing i should go for. there's so many different SKU's of tygon so i dont know which to get


----------



## Unicr0nhunter

I suspect it's not plasticizer. Looks to me like whatever is only happening is occurring in spots where coolant manages to squeeze in tight places where the acrylic touches the block and for whatever the reason, perhaps as the block heats up / cools down, the coolant exits but is leaving behind a residue from the dye that is collecting there or something to that effect going on with the dye. If it was plasticizer I'd expect to see visible effects on the tubing and it mostly collecting in the block's microchannels.


----------



## valkyrie743

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unicr0nhunter*
> 
> I suspect it's not plasticizer. Looks to me like whatever is only happening is occurring in spots where coolant manages to squeeze in tight places where the acrylic touches the block and for whatever the reason, perhaps as the block heats up / cools down, the coolant exits but is leaving behind a residue from the dye that is collecting there or something to that effect going on with the dye. If it was plasticizer I'd expect to see visible effects on the tubing and it mostly collecting in the block's microchannels.


thats what i was thinking. the tubing looks fine. i will find out i guess once i get new tubing in and i take this tubing off but it looks fine. the video card thing confused me because i dont understand how the residue or whatever that is got to where it is in the first place lol. as you see in the first pictures, theres something collecting in the fins of the cpu block. that picture is about a month old there is more there now. so i plan on stripping this system down soon.

i really am worried about taking the blocks apart to clean them. dont want to screw something up when putting them back together and have them leak.


----------



## Mayhem

That is not the dye as the blue doesn't leave residue behind. For us to find out what it is we would need a sample of the fluid and a sample from the block so we can get it analysed.

A few questions need to be asked.

1) What was in the system before you used this. What tubing? what liquids? ect ect
2) Did you clean the system and how did you clean it out.

Its going to be hard for any one to give you the correct answer with out some one actually ripping the system apart and having it analysed and knowing the full history of the build.


----------



## kimoswabi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *valkyrie743*
> 
> need your guys opinion. want to know if this is plasticizer that's in my system. tubing im using is primochill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT clear. using Mayhems X1 clear coolant with Mayhems Dark Blue dye
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> here is a picture of the system as a whole. as you can see the tubing is not hazy so i have no idea what's going on.


It's not plasticizer or Mayhems dye.
I've had almost exact same thing happen to me (only noticeable in my GPU waterblock almost exactly like your pic) and I was using Ice Dragon White coolant and acrylic tubing. I did a full flush with just water & distilled water and ran my loop in full speed for about 2 days to get rid of all the gunk/ particles as I didn't want to tear down my loop. Again, everything cleared out in about 2 days and haven't had any problems w/ the gunk since.
It cleared out so I didn't do any further investigation. (yes, I did all the typical rad cleaning prior to installation)
I'm guessing it's a combination of dirty rad & post-manufacturing oxidation that came loose after about a month sitting in nice warm 30C coolant. The gunk seemed to be very small particles that settles in dead zones or when it's sitting still (similar to how nano-particles from Mayhems pastel coolants settle when your system has been off for a long period of time).

I have EK rad with Mayhems X1 + Mayhems purple dye with acrylic tubes.


----------



## RnRollie

Until somebody puts this gunk under a microscope and through a spectroscope i say its fungi spores , some MRSA variant resistant to biocides








Unless you've got a silver coil, then its just silver oxide

Either way, there should not be "seepage" like that.. its a design/quality issue


----------



## valkyrie743

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mayhem*
> 
> That is not the dye as the blue doesn't leave residue behind. For us to find out what it is we would need a sample of the fluid and a sample from the block so we can get it analysed.
> 
> A few questions need to be asked.
> 
> 1) What was in the system before you used this. What tubing? what liquids? ect ect
> 2) Did you clean the system and how did you clean it out.
> 
> Its going to be hard for any one to give you the correct answer with out some one actually ripping the system apart and having it analysed and knowing the full history of the build.


the system was new. (well water cooling parts the computer parts were air cooled before) i flushed the reads with hot distilled water multiple times. as for the blocks and the tubing i didnt flush them (probably why i have that crap in my gpu)

what im thinking is the crap in the cpu fin away is just stuff i missed in the rads (which i dont know how i did spent over an hour shacking and flushing it with hot distilled water) and from not flushing the blocks.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kimoswabi*
> 
> [/SPOILER]
> It's not plasticizer or Mayhems dye.
> I've had almost exact same thing happen to me (only noticeable in my GPU waterblock almost exactly like your pic) and I was using Ice Dragon White coolant and acrylic tubing. I did a full flush with just water & distilled water and ran my loop in full speed for about 2 days to get rid of all the gunk/ particles as I didn't want to tear down my loop. Again, everything cleared out in about 2 days and haven't had any problems w/ the gunk since.
> It cleared out so I didn't do any further investigation. (yes, I did all the typical rad cleaning prior to installation)
> I'm guessing it's a combination of dirty rad & post-manufacturing oxidation that came loose after about a month sitting in nice warm 30C coolant. The gunk seemed to be very small particles that settles in dead zones or when it's sitting still (similar to how nano-particles from Mayhems pastel coolants settle when your system has been off for a long period of time).
> 
> I have EK rad with Mayhems X1 + Mayhems purple dye with acrylic tubes.


that's what i was kinda thinking with the gpu block. it was just residue of some sort left over from manufacturing. EK does a leak test. maybe after their leak test it was not dried properly or something got into it and thats what im looking at now.

i wish i had that kind of stuff to take a sample and figure out what this is. i plan on tearing down the system in the next couple days. waiting for my new tubing to come in.


----------



## kimoswabi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *valkyrie743*
> 
> the system was new. (well water cooling parts the computer parts were air cooled before) i flushed the reads with hot distilled water multiple times. as for the blocks and the tubing i didnt flush them (probably why i have that crap in my gpu)
> 
> what im thinking is the crap in the cpu fin away is just stuff i missed in the rads (which i dont know how i did spent over an hour shacking and flushing it with hot distilled water) and from not flushing the blocks.
> that's what i was kinda thinking with the gpu block. it was just residue of some sort left over from manufacturing. EK does a leak test. maybe after their leak test it was not dried properly or something got into it and thats what im looking at now.
> 
> i wish i had that kind of stuff to take a sample and figure out what this is. i plan on tearing down the system in the next couple days. waiting for my new tubing to come in.


I had my dirty Ice Dragon coolant sitting in a bottle and within a day all the dirty gunk was already settling at the bottom of the bottle. I ended up tossing it since it went away after a full flushing.
I have a pretty simple loop with 1 rad, 1 GPU waterblock and 1 CPU waterblock in about 600-700mL of coolant. There's no way that much crud could come from the GPU & CPU waterblocks. It has to be rad crap.

I also noticed that you have Alphacool rads. Those rads are known for having a ton of crud inside.


----------



## djriful

Those are rads gunk residues, this happened to me as well just using Mayhem Ice White Pastel. I noticed some shiny silvery sparkles at the end of the tube. I already did flush them all out and it looks fine.


----------



## valkyrie743

ok guys, flushed my system. guess it was just rad gunk. its weired because it looks like these are solid little chucks of whatever. but when i started to clean the parts with a q-tip they dissolved into like a liquid. the gross thing was when draining the loop. the last parts of the coolant that came out was a milky blue not clear. looked like pastel blue liquid. guess it was just crap that settled in the bottom of the res/pump combo when moving the whole case around to drain it.

either way i re-filled it with distilled water and let it run for 10 minutes, then flushed it again. took the blocks apart cleaned them, installed them back in and boom. nice and clean. i didn't add dye this time. i just stuck with the X1 coolant (clear) and that's it.

here are some pictures i took. sorry they were taken from my phone. don't and i dont have good light in my apt.


----------



## Mayhem

Thats alot of ..... "crud" ..... Until Alphacool Sort out there cleaning processes we will still see posts like this and some will blame the wrong people and it will never change. How ever we can all educate to improve the situation.

Thks for the update btw


----------



## M3TAl

Ya that is a lot. My 3 alphacool rads (720mm in total) didn't have that much combined. That's some serious crud!


----------



## valkyrie743

indeed it is. and what i dont understand is that i flushed the rads before building the loop. i spent a good hour + putting very hot distilled water. shaking them. letting them sit, then draining them.repeated this probably 10 to 15 times for each rad and still got that much more crap out of them?? that's messed up.


----------



## djriful

What are my other options beside the Advanced LRT Clear? Advanced LRT Clear turns yellowish as soon the liquid warm up to 35'c over time. It gives off a tinted yellow.

Which other clear tubing would you guys recommend?


----------



## Raul-7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> What are my other options beside the Advanced LRT Clear? Advanced LRT Clear turns yellowish as soon the liquid warm up to 35'c over time. It gives off a tinted yellow.
> 
> Which other clear tubing would you guys recommend?


I use Durelene tubing. It's cheap and it hasn't turned yellow, although I do use dye in my loop.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raul-7*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> What are my other options beside the Advanced LRT Clear? Advanced LRT Clear turns yellowish as soon the liquid warm up to 35'c over time. It gives off a tinted yellow.
> 
> Which other clear tubing would you guys recommend?
> 
> 
> 
> I use Durelene tubing. It's cheap and it hasn't turned yellow, although I do use dye in my loop.
Click to expand...

Thanks, i'll keep that in note.

I am trying to avoid import fees into Canada and I've been looking at this PVC tubing here: https://www.dazmode.com/store/product/flexible-tube-38-id-58-od-clear/


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Raul-7*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> What are my other options beside the Advanced LRT Clear? Advanced LRT Clear turns yellowish as soon the liquid warm up to 35'c over time. It gives off a tinted yellow.
> 
> Which other clear tubing would you guys recommend?
> 
> 
> 
> I use Durelene tubing. It's cheap and it hasn't turned yellow, although I do use dye in my loop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks, i'll keep that in note.
> 
> I am trying to avoid import fees into Canada and I've been looking at this PVC tubing here: https://www.dazmode.com/store/product/flexible-tube-38-id-58-od-clear/
Click to expand...

Thats "ordinairy" PVC tubing, also available in any hardware/diy store....
if you really want to pay the markup, then go to a pet shop/aquarium store and get green eHeim tubing


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> What are my other options beside the Advanced LRT Clear? Advanced LRT Clear turns yellowish as soon the liquid warm up to 35'c over time. It gives off a tinted yellow.
> 
> Which other clear tubing would you guys recommend?


Does it really turn yellow? I guess I'll have to look for some other tubing then... At this point though I'm seriously tempted to jsut go for Tygon norprene tubing, at least that will survive for a while...

Either way I'm curious to see what answers you get to this as well since I'm also looking for some good clear tubing for my first open loop.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> What are my other options beside the Advanced LRT Clear? Advanced LRT Clear turns yellowish as soon the liquid warm up to 35'c over time. It gives off a tinted yellow.
> 
> Which other clear tubing would you guys recommend?
> 
> 
> 
> Does it really turn yellow? I guess I'll have to look for some other tubing then... At this point though I'm seriously tempted to jsut go for Tygon norprene tubing, at least that will survive for a while...
> 
> Either way I'm curious to see what answers you get to this as well since I'm also looking for some good clear tubing for my first open loop.
Click to expand...

This is a shot from my phone but I have a better version from my dlsr... I'll do that tomorrow... almost 3am.


----------



## M3TAl

My loops has had advanced LRT in it for at least 3-4 months now. My water goes anywhere from 33-38C when gaming depending on various things. The tubing is only very lightly off color now.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> My loops has had advanced LRT in it for at least 3-4 months now. My water goes anywhere from 33-38C when gaming depending on various things. The tubing is only very lightly off color now.


I think the Mayhem Pastel liquid might had accelerate the discolouration. What do you use in your loop?

Right now I just changed my entire system with the XSPC HighFlex Clear UV, I'll see how long the tube will last or anything build up. Currently using Dazmode Protector: http://www.dazmode.com/store/product/dazmode_protector/

*Previous:*

- Advanced LRT

~750ml Distilled Water

~250ml Mayhem Pastel Ice White

*Now:*

- XSPC HighFlex Clear UV

~900ml Distilled Water

~60ml Dazmode Protector


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> I think the Mayhem Pastel liquid might had accelerate the discolouration. What do you use in your loop?
> 
> Right now I just changed my entire system with the XSPC HighFlex Clear UV, I'll see how long the tube will last or anything build up. Currently using Dazmode Protector: http://www.dazmode.com/store/product/dazmode_protector/
> 
> *Previous:*
> - Advanced LRT
> ~750ml Distilled Water
> ~250ml Mayhem Pastel Ice White
> 
> *Now:*
> - XSPC HighFlex Clear UV
> ~900ml Distilled Water
> ~60ml Dazmode Protector


That coloration will just not do. If you get better experience with the xspc then I mihgt end up going for that, as the flex was sugested to me otherwhere as well. I'm just gonna go with distilled water and some anti micobial or anti corrosion (I won't touch silver after what I have seen it do, but that is a topic for another time). Either way I have a couple of months on me to choose so I'll try to gather as much info as possible


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> I think the Mayhem Pastel liquid might had accelerate the discolouration. What do you use in your loop?
> 
> Right now I just changed my entire system with the XSPC HighFlex Clear UV, I'll see how long the tube will last or anything build up. Currently using Dazmode Protector: http://www.dazmode.com/store/product/dazmode_protector/
> 
> *Previous:*
> - Advanced LRT
> ~750ml Distilled Water
> ~250ml Mayhem Pastel Ice White
> 
> *Now:*
> - XSPC HighFlex Clear UV
> ~900ml Distilled Water
> ~60ml Dazmode Protector


It's just distilled with kill coil right now with all alphacool rads. Before that was Durelene with pastel ice white and it turned very green very fast (tubing and the pastel) due to me not knowing the alphacool rads require hardcore cleaning.


----------



## djriful

Advanced LRT, 8 months of use


----------



## Eze2kiel

*Durelene Tubing Transparency Test*

*First Test*
(MOUNT: 02/27/14 - DISMOUNT 04/10/14 - TOTAL 60 days)




*Second Test*
(FLUID REPLACEMENT: 05/11/2014 - CHECK: 09/06/2014 - TOTAL: 118 days)


Durelene DEHP Free RULEZ!


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> Advanced LRT, 8 months of use


Why is that tubing relatively clear at the fitting and yellow at the top?


----------



## ccRicers

Hmm my advanced LRT is starting to yellow a bit too, and I've only been using it for one week. The reservoir is still very clear, though, so it's likely an issue with the tubing.

I am just using clear distilled water with a kill coil that was used for six months in a previous setup.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> Advanced LRT, 8 months of use
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is that tubing relatively clear at the fitting and yellow at the top?
Click to expand...

It's a dead end tube, the part where the water heat + chemical up over 35-38'c changes the tube colour. The end tip is probably temp around 33'c. Just to shows the heat affects the tube. The entire loop is all yellow like that, and they are all in the trash atm.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ccRicers*
> 
> Hmm my advanced LRT is starting to yellow a bit too, and I've only been using it for one week. The reservoir is still very clear, though, so it's likely an issue with the tubing.
> 
> I am just using clear distilled water with a kill coil that was used for six months in a previous setup.


Yeah, that's the problem. It started to tint. Mine actually started to yellow in 2 days.


----------



## ccRicers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> Yeah, that's the problem. It started to tint. Mine actually started to yellow in 2 days.


Oh man. Well, wish I knew about this before. I bought it after seeing the plasticizer problems with the cheap hardware store tubing (and using it myself). I didn't know Advanced LRT was also prone to discoloration, or it may be just certain batches of it.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ccRicers*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> Yeah, that's the problem. It started to tint. Mine actually started to yellow in 2 days.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh man. Well, wish I knew about this before. I bought it after seeing the plasticizer problems with the cheap hardware store tubing (and using it myself). I didn't know Advanced LRT was also prone to discoloration, or it may be just certain batches of it.
Click to expand...

I don't know, but I have a second rig that uses the same tubing but here is the differences:

- miniITX 3570k

- GTX 670

- Full watercool

- Distilled water (no silver coil, no biocide, no corrosion inhibitor)

- All nickel block and fittings Bitspower White

- Advanced LRT

That rig hasn't change discolour at all, there was nothing else but distilled water and that rig did heat up over 36'c during gaming. Has been running for 9 months.

I suspect one of the chemical react with the heat that causes the discolouration on my main rig.

Either way, tube is still perfect in that miniITX rig, except it need to clean. I think there are some stuff on the GPU block at the moment since it has no biocide or corrosion inhibitor.


----------



## Raul-7

The Durelene tubing I use discolored as well, but it has that faint white powdery residue. It's just the nature of this stuff I guess.


----------



## ccRicers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> I don't know, but I have a second rig that uses the same tubing but here is the differences:
> 
> - miniITX 3570k
> - GTX 670
> - Full watercool
> - Distilled water (no silver coil, no biocide, no corrosion inhibitor)
> - All nickel block and fittings Bitspower White
> - Advanced LRT
> 
> That rig hasn't change discolour at all, there was nothing else but distilled water and that rig did heat up over 36'c during gaming. Has been running for 9 months.
> 
> I suspect one of the chemical react with the heat that causes the discolouration on my main rig.
> 
> Either way, tube is still perfect in that miniITX rig, except it need to clean. I think there are some stuff on the GPU block at the moment since it has no biocide or corrosion inhibitor.


That's a very cool temp for your ITX rig I think. My main rig is also mini ITX so not much water for heat to disspate. It has:

- Xeon E3 1230v2 (so no OC)
- HD 7950
- Kill coil (already discolored from previous use)
- Nickel EK and Bitspower blocks
- EX 280 rad (on fan spinning though, need a splitter for the other one)

What were the gaming temps on your larger rig with the discolored tubing? While gaming my temps reach 60 C which is expected for this setup. So it could be because my rig runs hotter than yours.


----------



## M3TAl

Don't know if my phone camera will even be able to pick up the differences between unused LRT and what's in the loop now. By eye the LRT in the loop is a little yellowed and a little bit hazy but not too bad. I'll edit pic in here in a moment.

The light from the camera flash exaggerates the haziness. CPU block needs a good cleaning too







.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ccRicers*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> I don't know, but I have a second rig that uses the same tubing but here is the differences:
> 
> - miniITX 3570k
> - GTX 670
> - Full watercool
> - Distilled water (no silver coil, no biocide, no corrosion inhibitor)
> - All nickel block and fittings Bitspower White
> - Advanced LRT
> 
> That rig hasn't change discolour at all, there was nothing else but distilled water and that rig did heat up over 36'c during gaming. Has been running for 9 months.
> 
> I suspect one of the chemical react with the heat that causes the discolouration on my main rig.
> 
> Either way, tube is still perfect in that miniITX rig, except it need to clean. I think there are some stuff on the GPU block at the moment since it has no biocide or corrosion inhibitor.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a very cool temp for your ITX rig I think. My main rig is also mini ITX so not much water for heat to disspate. It has:
> 
> - Xeon E3 1230v2 (so no OC)
> - HD 7950
> - Kill coil (already discolored from previous use)
> - Nickel EK and Bitspower blocks
> - EX 280 rad (on fan spinning though, need a splitter for the other one)
> 
> What were the gaming temps on your larger rig with the discolored tubing? While gaming my temps reach 60 C which is expected for this setup. So it could be because my rig runs hotter than yours.
Click to expand...

Main rig temp was at ~38-40'c water temp, it gets hot due to high OC compare to the miniITX which is a much less power system. Oh yeah, I was speaking about watertemp the whole time fyi.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> Don't know if my phone camera will even be able to pick up the differences between unused LRT and what's in the loop now. By eye the LRT in the loop is a little yellowed and a little bit hazy but not too bad. I'll edit pic in here in a moment.
> 
> The light from the camera flash exaggerates the haziness. CPU block needs a good cleaning too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I have the same effect months ago. I didn't get haze but tinted yellow, and it gets deeper as month passes.


----------



## Element2k3

Hello! about 10 days ago, I installed some Primoflex Advanced LRT white tubes. Today when I wanted to test a new reservoir, I noticed that my old res, had some white smeary stuff in it. The same stuff is on the fittings too. I havent opened the res, to see if it comes off, yet. But it looks like it doesn't want to come off the fittings. I only use distilled water with Innovatek Protect in my loop

I had some plasticizer in my Masterkleer, so I know that it comes off. But what is this? Isn't the Advanced LRT supposed to be plasticizer free? Or might the shop have sold me the Pro version instead? Is it normal that the color in white tubes comes off?


----------



## Unicr0nhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Element2k3*
> 
> Hello! about 10 days ago, I installed some Primoflex Advanced LRT white tubes. Today when I wanted to test a new reservoir, I noticed that my old res, had some white smeary stuff in it. The same stuff is on the fittings too. I havent opened the res, to see if it comes off, yet. But it looks like it doesn't want to come off the fittings. I only use distilled water with Innovatek Protect in my loop
> 
> I had some plasticizer in my Masterkleer, so I know that it comes off. But what is this? Isn't the Advanced LRT supposed to be plasticizer free? Or might the shop have sold me the Pro version instead? Is it normal that the color in white tubes comes off?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Image


No, it's not normal for Advanced LRT to do that. If you got a cut to order length not in a box that said it was the Advanced I'd say the chances are pretty good that you got stuck with the Pro LRT instead. Either that or Primochill has been changing their tubing lately which I want to doubt but I suppose it is a possibility. Seeing the previous posts showing Advanced LRT yellowing/hazing seems pretty odd to me as my uncle's rig has been running a loop of the clear for at least 18 months now with just distilled + Nuke and it looks mighty clear to me still.


----------



## Element2k3

the only thing that is strange is, that it doesn't go away.
seen that I had to reapply the termalpaste on one cpu, I opened the cpu block and there was no white gunk in it. but I didn't open the second cpu block. also the radiator on the bottom doesn't show any signs of this gunk where the fittings get attached. could it be some kind of color?


----------



## Layback Bear

I use Primoflex advqanced LRT and after about 10 months my water turned off white.
One day it was clear and the next day it was cloudy. All I use is distilled water and a Kill Coil.
All I did was flush the system about 3 times and every thing was and is still clear after 2 weeks.
The only thing I noticed after the water was clear again is the Kill Coil lost is shine. It's gray in color but no silver shine.
I really can't say what caused the problem but it did happen from one day to the next day.
The Primoflex is still the same color without being cloudy. I don't believe it was the tubing.


----------



## jamsomito

Yep, this is what I've got. I used Tygon 3603 for about 9 months and it was completely clouded over. Nasty stuff. I changed my tubing without checking my blocks as my temps have been fine and flow seems ok. Sure hope there's none actually in my loop though. Water was crystal clear when I changed it all out.



http://imgur.com/rXArbLW


^in the pic: old Tygon tubing with plasticizer, old unused Tygon tubing, new Primochill Advanced LRT tubing.


----------



## Aparition

Yo,

My loop after a full year. Distilled water with clear glycol mix 10:1 ratio. (10 water, 1 glycol).

This is the Home Depot Watts 3/8th ID vinyl tubing "drainage hose". $6 for 20ft. No corrosion, no algae, water stayed clear.
Tubing definitely has plasticizer but no mountainous build up near the fittings. For cheap tubing it doesn't look great anymore but it works fine. No performance problems.



Trying out new Duerelene tubing with a slightly different glycol mixture. Similar conentrate.. 10:1 ratio made with distilled water and 50/50 pre-mixed blue automotive coolant. No silver, no additional additives. Watts tubing noticeably stiffer than Duerelene.


----------



## Tyrannosaurus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> It's a dead end tube, the part where the water heat + chemical up over 35-38'c changes the tube colour. The end tip is probably temp around 33'c. Just to shows the heat affects the tube. The entire loop is all yellow like that, and they are all in the trash atm.
> 
> Yeah, that's the problem. It started to tint. Mine actually started to yellow in 2 days.


I had the exact same issue. I ran my system above the 10C delta for testing for a good amount of time, I let the water temperature really climb at some points, never above the 38C you mentioned though.

Some parts of the tubing remained clear. It was very strange.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jamsomito*
> 
> Yep, this is what I've got. I used Tygon 3603 for about 9 months and it was completely clouded over. Nasty stuff. I changed my tubing without checking my blocks as my temps have been fine and flow seems ok. Sure hope there's none actually in my loop though. Water was crystal clear when I changed it all out.
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/rXArbLW
> 
> 
> ^in the pic: old Tygon tubing with plasticizer, old unused Tygon tubing, new Primochill Advanced LRT tubing.


This is the reason I am done with flex tubing. The cost is too much and the end result seems to be the same. I am sure there are manufactured tubing that is without this issue but to be honest, I'd rather have clean runs, no worries of plasticizer and not fill my cases full of flex tubing after worrying about cable management. That kinda makes zero sense doesn't it?

"Get that cable management tighter"

: "Now I'm gonna water cool with flex tubing"...

It's not bad for airflow due to lack of need, but aesthetically speaking; it just doesn't work. So I've dropped my PrimoChill completely and am going to Monsoon Hardline. Especially after seeing the mess inside my system when I finally got back to it. Green inside white tubes and I'm thinking that my copper Rad flavoured the plasticizer because there was white on my BP barbs and inside my Pump Block.









~Ceadder


----------



## ccRicers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> This is the reason I am done with flex tubing. The cost is too much and the end result seems to be the same. I am sure there are manufactured tubing that is without this issue but to be honest, I'd rather have clean runs, no worries of plasticizer and not fill my cases full of flex tubing after worrying about cable management. That kinda makes zero sense doesn't it?
> 
> "Get that cable management tighter"
> 
> : "Now I'm gonna water cool with flex tubing"...
> 
> It's not bad for airflow due to lack of need, but aesthetically speaking; it just doesn't work. So I've dropped my PrimoChill completely and am going to Monsoon Hardline. Especially after seeing the mess inside my system when I finally got back to it. Green inside white tubes and I'm thinking that my copper Rad flavoured the plasticizer because there was white on my BP barbs and inside my Pump Block.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


I basically agree with you. Not only between brands but within the same brand and product you may find inconsistencies with plasticizer or other kind of discoloration. I didn't like the ugly yellowish tint from the Primochill tubing that got in the way of my mostly silver colored build.

As well as rigid tubing costing about the same, if not cheaper if you shop around well for tubes. 3 meters of acrylic tubing set me back $20- I get just a little more on that for clear Advance LRT tubing for $30. I can get Bitspower C47 fittings for $10 _a pair_ as opposed to a single 1/2" ID comp fitting. I don't really see why most people say it's more expensive to do acrylic tubing. I guess it's due to the initial learning curve of getting your bends right needing extra tubes, or the tools required. But I think it's only more expensive in start up costs, for buying the tools.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ccRicers*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> This is the reason I am done with flex tubing. The cost is too much and the end result seems to be the same. I am sure there are manufactured tubing that is without this issue but to be honest, I'd rather have clean runs, no worries of plasticizer and not fill my cases full of flex tubing after worrying about cable management. That kinda makes zero sense doesn't it?
> 
> "Get that cable management tighter"
> 
> : "Now I'm gonna water cool with flex tubing"...
> 
> It's not bad for airflow due to lack of need, but aesthetically speaking; it just doesn't work. So I've dropped my PrimoChill completely and am going to Monsoon Hardline. Especially after seeing the mess inside my system when I finally got back to it. Green inside white tubes and I'm thinking that my copper Rad flavoured the plasticizer because there was white on my BP barbs and inside my Pump Block.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I basically agree with you. Not only between brands but within the same brand and product you may find inconsistencies with plasticizer or other kind of discoloration. I didn't like the ugly yellowish tint from the Primochill tubing that got in the way of my mostly silver colored build.
> 
> As well as rigid tubing costing about the same, if not cheaper if you shop around well for tubes. 3 meters of acrylic tubing set me back $20- I get just a little more on that for clear Advance LRT tubing for $30. I can get Bitspower C47 fittings for $10 _a pair_ as opposed to a single 1/2" ID comp fitting. I don't really see why most people say it's more expensive to do acrylic tubing. I guess it's due to the initial learning curve of getting your bends right needing extra tubes, or the tools required. But I think it's only more expensive in start up costs, for buying the tools.
Click to expand...

My tools cost me ~$135 so yeah it is a tad expensive but when I finish mine I can bend tubes for other people who want the Hardline look and save them about $70 in the process. My replacement barbs/cushions(Monsoon) set me back $35 and the tubes cost me about $20 for a set of four 2' @ 1/2"x5/8". So yeah it wasn't cheap.

~Ceadder


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ccRicers*
> 
> I basically agree with you. Not only between brands but within the same brand and product you may find inconsistencies with plasticizer or other kind of discoloration. I didn't like the ugly yellowish tint from the Primochill tubing that got in the way of my mostly silver colored build.
> 
> As well as rigid tubing costing about the same, if not cheaper if you shop around well for tubes. 3 meters of acrylic tubing set me back $20- I get just a little more on that for clear Advance LRT tubing for $30. I can get Bitspower C47 fittings for $10 _a pair_ as opposed to a single 1/2" ID comp fitting. I don't really see why most people say it's more expensive to do acrylic tubing. I guess it's due to the initial learning curve of getting your bends right needing extra tubes, or the tools required. But I think it's only more expensive in start up costs, for buying the tools.


Interesting... I didn't knwo that acrylic tubing was cheaper in total. for me it's a no go as I have to transport my stuff home to my own country and the availability of rigid tubing is near non existent there. Thus if I mess up I don't have any replacement. Still it's an interesting thing to hear.

One question for the bunch tough:
More or less though what seems to be the least troublefree tubing? I'm thinking Advanced LRT if I get coloured tubing but maybe XSPC Flex if I get clear (due to yellowing of Primochill).

I may have asked this question before (can't seem to find my post, but I think I did) but as I'm actually gettign coser to a complete build it would be great to have some input. Oh and for me this is a learning process so I apreciate all the help there is to get


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ccRicers*
> 
> I basically agree with you. Not only between brands but within the same brand and product you may find inconsistencies with plasticizer or other kind of discoloration. I didn't like the ugly yellowish tint from the Primochill tubing that got in the way of my mostly silver colored build.
> 
> As well as rigid tubing costing about the same, if not cheaper if you shop around well for tubes. 3 meters of acrylic tubing set me back $20- I get just a little more on that for clear Advance LRT tubing for $30. I can get Bitspower C47 fittings for $10 _a pair_ as opposed to a single 1/2" ID comp fitting. I don't really see why most people say it's more expensive to do acrylic tubing. I guess it's due to the initial learning curve of getting your bends right needing extra tubes, or the tools required. But I think it's only more expensive in start up costs, for buying the tools.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting... I didn't knwo that acrylic tubing was cheaper in total. for me it's a no go as I have to transport my stuff home to my own country and the availability of rigid tubing is near non existent there. Thus if I mess up I don't have any replacement. Still it's an interesting thing to hear.
> 
> One question for the bunch tough:
> More or less though what seems to be the least troublefree tubing? I'm thinking Advanced LRT if I get coloured tubing but maybe XSPC Flex if I get clear (due to yellowing of Primochill).
> 
> I may have asked this question before (can't seem to find my post, but I think I did) but as I'm actually gettign coser to a complete build it would be great to have some input. Oh and for me this is a learning process so I apreciate all the help there is to get
Click to expand...

Monsoon rigid tubing with the Free Center Collars(you can get collars seperately in some instances) coupled with their Hardline lock collars and put together properly can withstand up to 35lbs of force pulling at the fitting. Should be solid enough to withstand moving via air so long as you pack your system properly...

i.e. drained and dismantled from the system at the connectors and packed with soft pliable antistatic materiel (NO FOAM PELLETS for me 







) and secured within the case to keep it from being trashed. An you can get it overseas in lots of instances from places like Performance-PCs'. All you need do is do the research before you go. Heck I haven't been to Aquatuning recently but if they do carry it(my guess would be that they do since they do carry Monsoon last I saw) you can get just about anything shipped directly from them.









I wish I had the answer to your question about flex tubing however. I ran PrimoChill LRT and it sucks imho.









~Ceadder


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Monsoon rigid tubing with the Free Center Collars(you can get collars seperately in some instances) coupled with their Hardline lock collars and put together properly can withstand up to 35lbs of force pulling at the fitting. Should be solid enough to withstand moving via air so long as you pack your system properly...
> 
> i.e. drained and dismantled from the system at the connectors and packed with soft pliable antistatic materiel (NO FOAM PELLETS for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and secured within the case to keep it from being trashed. An you can get it overseas in lots of instances from places like Performance-PCs'. All you need do is do the research before you go. Heck I haven't been to Aquatuning recently but if they do carry it(my guess would be that they do since they do carry Monsoon last I saw) you can get just about anything shipped directly from them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I had the answer to your question about flex tubing however. I ran PrimoChill LRT and it sucks imho.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


My main problem is that I have my PC back home in Norway so I'm only taking back parts for it. I do have access to aquatuning but it is import from Germany so I'll have to check it out in time. The plan is quite simple really, get what I need for a good loop while I'm in the States (partly becuase of all the stores and partly becuase I have access to OCN marketplace) and mount it together when I get back to Norway







Thus I need stuff that fit in a suitcase and acrylic tubing isn't my first priority, still I may think of it as I can get soem if I really need it.


----------



## cloppy007

Any tips on removing plasticizer from my fittings?


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloppy007*
> 
> Any tips on removing plasticizer from my fittings?


As long as you remove your O rings first (very important), you should be able to soak them in high percentage alcohol. As far as I know that makes most tubing just melt, or was that just with acrylic... can't remember, but alcohol should probably loosen it up somewhat.


----------



## Ceadderman

Boil them in distilled. Drain em and wipe em off. Problem solved.









~Ceadder


----------



## Creator

Clear tubing is a tough one. I remember mine went from yellow to brown!



That was with only a CPU too... With GK110 and 5960X monsters, I'm pretty sure my loo is frequently around ~35C so I just went with black tubing. If it's going to discolor I just won't see it. The plasticize issue, almost same deal. It's to the point that's if it's going to happen, I just won't know for a good while. I'll have to clean CPU and GPU blocks every year or so anyway. I just hope my pumps aren't affected by it.

Are there any quick disconnect sections (of tubing line) that can have a filter inside of it? I figure cleaning out the filter every months would be far easier than doing a complete tear down of the loop. And keep the pumps safe as well.


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> As long as you remove your O rings first (very important), you should be able to soak them in high percentage alcohol. As far as I know that makes most tubing just melt, or was that just with acrylic... can't remember, but alcohol should probably loosen it up somewhat.


Rubbing with alcohol worked, but some of the paint of the white fittings fell off








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Boil them in distilled. Drain em and wipe em off. Problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


That didn't work, unfortunately.

I'm now cleaning the rads. They've been filled with hot distilled water and shaked like 10 times, but there is still particles coming out (I drain the rads to an empty glass container to inspect the results). Perhaps it's time to use that Primochill sysprep, or order mayhems blitz.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloppy007*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> As long as you remove your O rings first (very important), you should be able to soak them in high percentage alcohol. As far as I know that makes most tubing just melt, or was that just with acrylic... can't remember, but alcohol should probably loosen it up somewhat.
> 
> 
> 
> Rubbing with alcohol worked, but some of the paint of the white fittings fell off
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Boil them in distilled. Drain em and wipe em off. Problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That didn't work, unfortunately.
> 
> I'm now cleaning the rads. They've been filled with hot distilled water and shaked like 10 times, but there is still particles coming out (I drain the rads to an empty glass container to inspect the results). Perhaps it's time to use that Primochill sysprep, or order mayhems blitz.
Click to expand...

I was referring to your fittings.

About all you can do with your Radiator is run a 50/50 solution of Distilled/Vinegar through Radiators. You do want it to be hot as you can stand while holding the radiator. I flush my new Rads out with a similar solution. You're probably not going to get all of it out but most of it should come out of your Radiator as the plasticizer hangs up mostly on the I/O port end of Radiators. So inspect with a light after rinsing the solution with distilled and rinse and repeat as necessary. Remember that Radiators are soldered so your solution should not be much hotter than boiling.









It's too bad you went with the Alcohol but at least the fittings are cleaned up now.









~Ceadder


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I was referring to your fittings.
> 
> About all you can do with your Radiator is run a 50/50 solution of Distilled/Vinegar through Radiators. You do want it to be hot as you can stand while holding the radiator. I flush my new Rads out with a similar solution. You're probably not going to get all of it out but most of it should come out of your Radiator as the plasticizer hangs up mostly on the I/O port end of Radiators. So inspect with a light after rinsing the solution with distilled and rinse and repeat as necessary. Remember that Radiators are soldered so your solution should not be much hotter than boiling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's too bad you went with the Alcohol but at least the fittings are cleaned up now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


I did boil the fittings, it did nothing.

I'm not happy running vinegar through the radiator, as far as I see it might damage the solder.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloppy007*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I was referring to your fittings.
> 
> About all you can do with your Radiator is run a 50/50 solution of Distilled/Vinegar through Radiators. You do want it to be hot as you can stand while holding the radiator. I flush my new Rads out with a similar solution. You're probably not going to get all of it out but most of it should come out of your Radiator as the plasticizer hangs up mostly on the I/O port end of Radiators. So inspect with a light after rinsing the solution with distilled and rinse and repeat as necessary. Remember that Radiators are soldered so your solution should not be much hotter than boiling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's too bad you went with the Alcohol but at least the fittings are cleaned up now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did boil the fittings, it did nothing.
> 
> I'm not happy running vinegar through the radiator, as far as I see it might damage the solder.
Click to expand...

It won't. I use it w/o issue on my HWLabs Stealth II 360. Just rinse it with straight distilled after a couple flush and shakes. Should be just fine.









~Ceadder


----------



## quipers

So what are the currently recommended brands to avoid plasticizer deposits and cloudiness/discoloration?

Top 3 or 4?


----------



## quipers

While I am waiting for anyone to chime in to the last question








I just realized that I have part of my answer already.

I am doing the initial maintenance on my nearly 2-years-old loop. (Serious family illness, other issues. Life goes on ...)
There was a stretch of several months in which I hardly turned this particular computer on, if at all. However, over the past 6+ months it's up and running on average three days per week, usually for about an hour at a stretch.

The tubing has mostly been hidden under insulating material, so I haven't been watching it carefully. There are a couple of small areas where the tubing passes through twists, or from inside to outside the case, where the insulation has small gaps, so I've been able to watch those areas, and they've appeared grossly unremarkable the whole time.

Most of my gig is clear 1/2"ID Durelene.
There is a short section that is clear 3/8"ID Primoflex Primochill Advanced LRT.
After running for 2 years, all the Durelene is cloudy with a chalky residue. The Primochill Advanced LRT is still crystal clear.

The Advanced LRT is a real mf to work with though. Very stiff and not very forgiving for tight bends.

I was reading the past several months of posts in this thread yesterday and saw a lot of people praising the Advanced LRT. I was very skeptical, especially since I recall a lot of people having praised Durelene in the past, whereas I've found that even Durelene has issues. But it looks like Advanced LRT is the real deal. You just have to put up with the higher cost and the fact that it is a lot harder to work with.


----------



## Sir Beregond

Will be tearing down my current system to reuse my rads for my new build. First full teardown in 2 1/2 years.

I will say this, my Primochill Advance LRT tubing looks as good as it did day 1 from what I can see. Res water looks just as clean as day 1 except for some black specs which I am thinking maybe came from the radiators which I didn't really do a good job flushing.

Will be interested to take a look at the inside of the tubing once I tear down, not to mention the blocks, etc.


----------



## Ceadderman

There really aren't many if any brands unaffected by plasticizer issues. Heat is what promotes leeching and since our coolant easily gets heated above the temperature which plasticizer leeches from the tubing you really cannot be sure whether or not a problem exists just by looking at your tubing without breaking down your loop.

And yes even PC Advanced LRT has had issues with this problem.

~Ceadder


----------



## Unicr0nhunter

I've definitely seen complaints of Advanced LRT clouding and even a few of plasticizer, but I've never seen anything like that myself. We've been running several different loops using different colors of advanced LRT for well over a year now w/ absolutely no plasticizer or noticeable change in color. My brother's bench is the oldest with a loop that's almost 2 years old running uv blue lrt and we just a month ago added another rad, GPU & second D5 pump to it and I can't tell any difference between the old and new tubing. He is using mayhems clear X1 coolant if that makes a difference. I'm running distilled plus Nuke in mine.


----------



## Sir Beregond

Like I said, tubing looks just as good as the day I put it in. Don't see any clouding at all. Distilled water + kill coil. Could be totally different when I tear it down. Guess I'll find out in a couple of weeks.


----------



## M3TAl

I think the Advanced LRT Jabtech sold me wasn't actually Advanced LRT. That stuff was starting to turn chalky. The Adv LRT I got later from PPCS felt completely different. Way stiffer and harder to work with than the stuff from Jabtech...


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Idk if its plasticizer or just the dye setting in after 4-5 years, but here's a good one.


----------



## M3TAl

Keeping the same loop for 5 years, that's impressive considering most water people change something every 2 weeks


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> Keeping the same loop for 5 years, that's impressive considering most water people change something every 2 weeks


yeaaaaaah Im kinda terrified of opening the CPU block to see whats in there, hopefully nothing crazy (I've had crazy before). Thankfully I decided to get another CPU block anyway regardless what happens to get with the times. The whole issue was I completely disregarded servicing my PC for 4 years thanks to college -.-

I emptied the loop out back in June when I changed cases (kept everything the same though and just filled it back up until I got upgraded parts for sale this month), and nothing appeared to be in the liquid thankfully like no detectable algea.


----------



## quipers

Finally got around to taking photos to show how PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT put Durelene to shame in my loop.
As I mentioned in a previous recent post, I did not open the loop for nearly 2 years until about 2 weeks ago. Most of the tubing in the loop was Durelene, but I also used a short length of PrimoFlex Advanced LRT -- all purchased in February 2013 or so.
The cooling mixture I have been using is distilled water with 20% methanol (HEET Gas-Line Antifreeze) and 3% Hy-per Lube Super Coolant. (The Hy-per Lube imparts a light green color to the mixture.)

The photos show just how poorly the Durelene compares to PrimoFlex Advanced LRT. At the time that I purchased the tubing, many on the board were praising Durelene as being one of the least prone to discoloration and plasticizer leaking. Advanced LRT was fairly new at the time, and it was (and still is) much more expensive. I didn't want to invest a lot of money in Advanced LRT because I had already been running Durelene for several weeks in an earlier loop without any problems, and because the earlier version of PrimoFlex LRT (PrimoFlex Pro LRT) was known to be very prone to plasticizer issues.

The clear tube on the left is PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT; it looks essentially the same as when originally installed. The tube on the right is Durelene.


The tube on the left is that same length of Durelene that I had been using for almost 2 years. The tube on the right came from the same batch of Durelene, but was never used; I am including it here just for reference.


You can see how the nasty crap that is coating the inside of the tube can be partly scraped off, as I did here with the Q-Tip.


Now here is the really scary part. As you can see on the right near the bottom of the tube, the Durelene wall has melted so much that the metal end of the fitting is close to eroding completely through the wall. If this had not been caught when it was, I probably would have had a very expensive mess instead of a computer.


Incidentally, I am using that same bit of Advanced LRT tube that was left over for my new loop.


----------



## Ceadderman

Give that primochill advanced 2 Years and THEN compare it.









~Ceadder


----------



## quipers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Give that primochill advanced 2 Years and THEN compare it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


I think you must have misunderstood. The PrimoChill Advanced LRT and the Durelene _were_ in _the same loop_ for exactly the same amount of time -- both for 2 years. That is a direct comparison.


----------



## z3d89

Hello Guys

I'm going to complete my build after 3years of stop and I was looking about tubing and coolants stuffs.

3 Years ago I bought some meters of Tygon R3603 which was a good reputed tubing but now it seems that it isn't anymore; i'd like to put some colour in my build but after reading lasts 10pages of this discussion it seems to me that there is no way to prevent tubings from becoming yellowish or getting some clouding; in top of that I noticed that many people here got plasticizer problems!

So, what should I do in your opinion? I should go with Tygon R3603 (which I own, never used), Masterkleer Clear or Primochill Advanced LRT Clear?
Or instead, should I go for coloured tubing?

Thank you for the advices


----------



## Eze2kiel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *quipers*
> 
> Finally got around to taking photos to show how PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT put Durelene to shame in my loop.
> As I mentioned in a previous recent post, I did not open the loop for nearly 2 years until about 2 weeks ago. Most of the tubing in the loop was Durelene, but I also used a short length of PrimoFlex Advanced LRT -- all purchased in February 2013 or so.
> The cooling mixture I have been using is distilled water with 20% methanol (HEET Gas-Line Antifreeze) and 3% Hy-per Lube Super Coolant. (The Hy-per Lube imparts a light green color to the mixture.)
> 
> The photos show just how poorly the Durelene compares to PrimoFlex Advanced LRT. At the time that I purchased the tubing, many on the board were praising Durelene as being one of the least prone to discoloration and plasticizer leaking. Advanced LRT was fairly new at the time, and it was (and still is) much more expensive. I didn't want to invest a lot of money in Advanced LRT because I had already been running Durelene for several weeks in an earlier loop without any problems, and because the earlier version of PrimoFlex LRT (PrimoFlex Pro LRT) was known to be very prone to plasticizer issues.
> 
> The clear tube on the left is PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT; it looks essentially the same as when originally installed. The tube on the right is Durelene.
> 
> 
> The tube on the left is that same length of Durelene that I had been using for almost 2 years. The tube on the right came from the same batch of Durelene, but was never used; I am including it here just for reference.
> 
> 
> You can see how the nasty crap that is coating the inside of the tube can be partly scraped off, as I did here with the Q-Tip.
> 
> 
> Now here is the really scary part. As you can see on the right near the bottom of the tube, the Durelene wall has melted so much that the metal end of the fitting is close to eroding completely through the wall. If this had not been caught when it was, I probably would have had a very expensive mess instead of a computer.
> 
> 
> Incidentally, I am using that same bit of Advanced LRT tube that was left over for my new loop.


The problem here was the mix with you filled the loop.
I've the Durelene running a year ago with 3% coolant for car radiators and 97% demineralized water and remain transparent as ever.


----------



## Ceadderman

I can't even begin to describe how much I would discourage anyone from using Antifreeze in a loop. Get a leak and you're single with no animals or children (it can be fatal if ingested) then meh okay maybe. But I see NO benefits to using even a 1 percent solution. It doesn't help in the cooling process unless ur cooling Intels new V10 racing motor.









~Ceadder


----------



## Eze2kiel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I can't even begin to describe how much I would discourage anyone from using Antifreeze in a loop. Get a leak and you're single with no animals or children (it can be fatal if ingested) then meh okay maybe. But I see NO benefits to using even a 1 percent solution. It doesn't help in the cooling process unless ur cooling Intels new V10 racing motor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


For "Cooling" the water?








Rather put it to prevent algae from forming and keep the PH of the water.

We all know that if we use coolant for car radiators isn't to "cooling" but to keep water and prevent algae and dirty generated.


----------



## quipers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *z3d89*
> 
> Hello Guys
> 
> I'm going to complete my build after 3years of stop and I was looking about tubing and coolants stuffs.
> 
> 3 Years ago I bought some meters of Tygon R3603 which was a good reputed tubing but now it seems that it isn't anymore; i'd like to put some colour in my build but after reading lasts 10pages of this discussion it seems to me that there is no way to prevent tubings from becoming yellowish or getting some clouding; in top of that I noticed that many people here got plasticizer problems!
> 
> So, what should I do in your opinion? I should go with Tygon R3603 (which I own, never used), Masterkleer Clear or Primochill Advanced LRT Clear?
> Or instead, should I go for coloured tubing?
> 
> Thank you for the advices


If it were me, I'd go with the PrimoChill Advanced LRT. You can see the photos above that that stuff lasted 2 years and is still clear almost like new.
How long are you planning to go before a change out? If you're short of cash and really don't want to waste the Tygon you already have -- and, crucially, you are planning to redo the loop anyway _in the very near future_, you _might_ be able to get away with using the Tygon for a short period. But why take the chance of gumming up your components, which in the long run could cost you even more money and headache. Personally, I'd rather just sleep well without having to worry about whether it was a risk worth taking. Why be penny-wise and pound-foolish?








http://www.overclock.net/t/1170357/plasticizer-leaching-stay-away-from-tygon-3603-tubing/0_100
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eze2kiel*
> 
> The problem here was the mix with you filled the loop.
> I've the Durelene running a year ago with 3% coolant for car radiators and 97% demineralized water and remain transparent as ever.


The question wasn't what caused the Durelene to foul up. The question was whether Durelene and PrimoChill Advanced LRT were equal, and if not, which was superior. The test answered that question pretty decisively, at least for my specific conditions (which, admittedly, are not what most watercoolers are using -- that said, I'd be comfortable choosing Advanced LRT in a typical watercooling setup since it's proven its value handling the much more taxing challenge of running for a longer duration and with a stronger solvent than most custom watercoolers typically use).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I can't even begin to describe how much I would discourage anyone from using Antifreeze in a loop. Get a leak and you're single with no animals or children (it can be fatal if ingested) then meh okay maybe. But I see NO benefits to using even a 1 percent solution. It doesn't help in the cooling process unless ur cooling Intels new V10 racing motor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


My loop was designed for handling chilled water temps, so I was looking for an affordable coolant mixture that would ****** freezing as well as minimize corrosion and slow the growth of algae and other germs for long periods. Aside from the problem with the Durelene, the methanol and Hy-Per Lube Super Coolant seems to have worked well for my needs.
http://www.overclockers.com/pc-water-coolant-chemistry-part-ii/


----------



## Eze2kiel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *quipers*
> 
> The question wasn't what caused the Durelene to foul up. The question was whether Durelene and PrimoChill Advanced LRT were equal, and if not, which was superior. The test answered that question pretty decisively, at least for my specific conditions (which, admittedly, are not what most watercoolers are using -- that said, I'd be comfortable choosing Advanced LRT in a typical watercooling setup since it's proven its value handling the much more taxing challenge of running for a longer duration and with a stronger solvent than most custom watercoolers typically use).


In my humble opinion, each loop is different.

In my case, I've a Koolance 380i, an EK-VGA Supremacy Acetal+Nickel Bridge Edition, a 280mm Koolance radiator and a Laing D5 Vario.

Demineralized water+Mayhems Biocide Extreme smashing the pump at 7 months of use.

With 3% of car radiator coolant and the rest of water, will walk a year without any drama


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *quipers*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *z3d89*
> 
> Hello Guys
> 
> I'm going to complete my build after 3years of stop and I was looking about tubing and coolants stuffs.
> 
> 3 Years ago I bought some meters of Tygon R3603 which was a good reputed tubing but now it seems that it isn't anymore; i'd like to put some colour in my build but after reading lasts 10pages of this discussion it seems to me that there is no way to prevent tubings from becoming yellowish or getting some clouding; in top of that I noticed that many people here got plasticizer problems!
> 
> So, what should I do in your opinion? I should go with Tygon R3603 (which I own, never used), Masterkleer Clear or Primochill Advanced LRT Clear?
> Or instead, should I go for coloured tubing?
> 
> Thank you for the advices
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it were me, I'd go with the PrimoChill Advanced LRT. You can see the photos above that that stuff lasted 2 years and is still clear almost like new.
> How long are you planning to go before a change out? If you're short of cash and really don't want to waste the Tygon you already have -- and, crucially, you are planning to redo the loop anyway _in the very near future_, you _might_ be able to get away with using the Tygon for a short period. But why take the chance of gumming up your components, which in the long run could cost you even more money and headache. Personally, I'd rather just sleep well without having to worry about whether it was a risk worth taking. Why be penny-wise and pound-foolish?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1170357/plasticizer-leaching-stay-away-from-tygon-3603-tubing/0_100
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Eze2kiel*
> 
> The problem here was the mix with you filled the loop.
> I've the Durelene running a year ago with 3% coolant for car radiators and 97% demineralized water and remain transparent as ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question wasn't what caused the Durelene to foul up. The question was whether Durelene and PrimoChill Advanced LRT were equal, and if not, which was superior. The test answered that question pretty decisively, at least for my specific conditions (which, admittedly, are not what most watercoolers are using -- that said, I'd be comfortable choosing Advanced LRT in a typical watercooling setup since it's proven its value handling the much more taxing challenge of running for a longer duration and with a stronger solvent than most custom watercoolers typically use).
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I can't even begin to describe how much I would discourage anyone from using Antifreeze in a loop. Get a leak and you're single with no animals or children (it can be fatal if ingested) then meh okay maybe. But I see NO benefits to using even a 1 percent solution. It doesn't help in the cooling process unless ur cooling Intels new V10 racing motor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My loop was designed for handling chilled water temps, so I was looking for an affordable coolant mixture that would ****** freezing as well as minimize corrosion and slow the growth of algae and other germs for long periods. Aside from the problem with the Durelene, the methanol and Hy-Per Lube Super Coolant seems to have worked well for my needs.
> http://www.overclockers.com/pc-water-coolant-chemistry-part-ii/
Click to expand...

Ahah, I understand the algae thought process but Biocide is the way to go here imho, if you really even need it. Ran nothing in my loop w/o issues involving algae. Only had a problem with the stuff when I improperly drained the loop and let it sit for an extended period wlo opening my blocks and air dry them.









Now makes sense with complete information of using a Chiller. Although most chillers to my knowledge are climate controlled so running @ approximately 40 +/- should be no issue with freezing. I get what you mean tho.









~Ceadder


----------



## z3d89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *quipers*
> 
> If it were me, I'd go with the PrimoChill Advanced LRT. You can see the photos above that that stuff lasted 2 years and is still clear almost like new.
> How long are you planning to go before a change out? If you're short of cash and really don't want to waste the Tygon you already have -- and, crucially, you are planning to redo the loop anyway _in the very near future_, you _might_ be able to get away with using the Tygon for a short period. But why take the chance of gumming up your components, which in the long run could cost you even more money and headache. Personally, I'd rather just sleep well without having to worry about whether it was a risk worth taking. Why be penny-wise and pound-foolish?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1170357/plasticizer-leaching-stay-away-from-tygon-3603-tubing/0_100


So, the only suggested good tubing to go with is Primochill Advanced LRT or are there any others to look at?

What about coloured Primochill Adv. LRT tubing versus same tubing but Clear + Mayhem's Dye? What would you suggest?


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *z3d89*
> 
> So, the only suggested good tubing to go with is Primochill Advanced LRT or are there any others to look at?
> 
> What about coloured Primochill Adv. LRT tubing versus same tubing but Clear + Mayhem's Dye? What would you suggest?


Dye is always somewhat of a risk when in use as it has always been (less so with nano fluids, but still it's there) so dye is always more prone to problems then colored tubing. That said I doubt either or will pose a massive problem and if it does it's not that much work to change out the tubing either as it can be done while doing regular mainenance on the system (which should be done anyways).

On another note:
Now the tubing I'm somewhat curious about is the Tygon Norprene tubing. It seems like a good alternative for a long lasting tubing but I don't know anything about it from practical use. also who doesn't love flat black tubing...


----------



## Unicr0nhunter

FWIW EK ZMT (Zero Maintainance Tubing) is similar to Tygon Norprene and slightly easier to bend which is a common complaint about Norprene. Both are plasticizer free.


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unicr0nhunter*
> 
> FWIW EK ZMT (Zero Maintainance Tubing) is similar to Tygon Norprene and slightly easier to bend which is a common complaint about Norprene. Both are plasticizer free.


But it's only available in 16/10mm ID, isn't it?


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unicr0nhunter*
> 
> FWIW EK ZMT (Zero Maintainance Tubing) is similar to Tygon Norprene and slightly easier to bend which is a common complaint about Norprene. Both are plasticizer free.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloppy007*
> 
> But it's only available in 16/10mm ID, isn't it?


Interesting, I'll try with my celar Primochill Advanced LRT first but it's good to know there is alternatives. Also 16/10 is a not go for me as I have 13/10 compression fittings, but it's good to know there isn't any problems with the Norprene tubing at least.


----------



## BaK2BaK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloppy007*
> 
> But it's only available in 16/10mm ID, isn't it?


Looks like Tygon is also available in smaller size : http://www.ybris-cooling.it/10-13mm/6315-tygon-r6012-tubo-norprene-10-13mm-black.html


----------



## quipers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *z3d89*
> 
> So, the only suggested good tubing to go with is Primochill Advanced LRT or are there any others to look at?
> 
> What about coloured Primochill Adv. LRT tubing versus same tubing but Clear + Mayhem's Dye? What would you suggest?


No, I wouldn't say PrimoChill Advanced LRT is the only tubing that can be recommended. I was just recommending it out of the choices you proposed, which also included Masterkleer and Tygon R3603. I previously linked to a post complaining about problems with the Tygon R3603. Here are some noting plasticizer issues with Masterkleer:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2290#post_18959931
http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2160#post_18803166
http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2290#post_18958894

_Of those specific choices_, I would say the Advanced LRT is the best option in terms of plasticizer issues.

I would leave it to others with more experience to comment on what additional options there may be apart from Advanced LRT if you are trying to avoid plasticizer problems. Sounds like Norprene is an option, where available.

As for clear vs colored, I personally prefer clear tubing because I like being able to directly see what is going on with the tubing without having to break open part of the loop. If plasticizer leaching wasn't an issue at all, I think I would worry less about being able to see the tubing contents, especially in situations in which you have direct visual access to your reservoir fluid.


----------



## Costas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eze2kiel*
> 
> For "Cooling" the water?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rather put it to prevent algae from forming and keep the PH of the water.
> 
> We all know that if we use coolant for car radiators isn't to "cooling" but to keep water and prevent algae and dirty generated.


Another extremely valuable point in regards to most automotive coolants is that they usually have corrosion inhibitors in them.

I have always utilised an automotive coolant blended with distilled water in my loops without any forms of corrosion or plasticizers forming - Currently running Advanced LRT in my 6 month old build and its clear as the day it was removed from its packet.

The toxicity Vs leak issue is usually overstated by many - Sure if you drink it it is toxic to humans and pets and the like but in most instances people do not suffer major leaks with their cooling setups if built correctly.


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Costas*
> 
> Another extremely valuable point in regards to most automotive coolants is that they usually have corrosion inhibitors in them.
> 
> I have always utilised an automotive coolant blended with distilled water in my loops without any forms of corrosion or plasticizers forming - Currently running Advanced LRT in my 6 month old build and its clear as the day it was removed from its packet.
> 
> The toxicity Vs leak issue is usually overstated by many - Sure if you drink it it is toxic to humans and pets and the like but in most instances people do not suffer major leaks with their cooling setups if built correctly.


Something to remember about things like antifreeze though is the presence of alcohol. Now this may not be a problem in some loops but any loop that has acrylic in it will have problems with this, or at least with pure alcohol. The fact is that acrylic "melts" with the contact of alcohol, or at least that is what I have read and it's why I'm not going to use antifreeze and stuff like that in my new loop. This would only be the issue with any additives that contains alcohol though.


----------



## Costas

Yes I am aware of alcohols than can attack acrylic plastics causing crazing or stress fractures etc

Not sure if automotive coolants contain alcohol which can attack acrylics, however many people have used automotive coolants with acrylic reservoirs and other components [eg acrylic cpu/gpu blocks] in the past with no issues.

So not sure as to whether they contain alcohol which can attack acrylics or enough of it in solution to cause an issue.

My current build has an XSPC glass reservoir [Photon 270mm] which has an acrylic centre tube for the lighting. So far after running for 6 months it is fine with the coolant I am running.


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Costas*
> 
> Yes I am aware of alcohols than can attack acrylic plastics causing crazing or stress fractures etc
> 
> Not sure if automotive coolants contain alcohol which can attack acrylics, however many people have used automotive coolants with acrylic reservoirs and other components [eg acrylic cpu/gpu blocks] in the past with no issues.
> 
> So not sure as to whether they contain alcohol which can attack acrylics or enough of it in solution to cause an issue.
> 
> My current build has an XSPC glass reservoir [Photon 270mm] which has an acrylic centre tube for the lighting. So far after running for 6 months it is fine with the coolant I am running.












You are correct, and I know tons of people who has been running with antifreeze in their loop for years without a problem. That said, almost all antifreeze solutions contain alcohol of some kind (ethanol and methanol and any other kind of alcohol depending on the laws in the country) as it's one of the best liquids to use in cold environments. With this in mind though, I am unsure if the low amount of it in a loop could be why it doesn't react as fast (a 5% solution in a loop would put the alcohol amount of somewhere between 2% and 5% alcohol in the loop).

As for my loop I was supposed to run it with PTnuke but when I was going to order it I noticed that the regular kind is copper sulphate (which I have seen varying results with in a loop), luckily they also had the Benzalkonium chloride version, so I'll see how my loop reacts to that. Hopefully my Advanced LRT tubing will hold up against it.


----------



## cloppy007

Those consider masterkleer, please stay away from it. The one I got leached heavily:


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> Interesting, I'll try with my celar Primochill Advanced LRT first but it's good to know there is alternatives. Also 16/10 is a not go for me as I have 13/10 compression fittings, but it's good to know there isn't any problems with the Norprene tubing at least.


Mayhems is working on tubing that should be the best around as far as no plasticizer, no clouding, and no discoloration. They literally just started working on that idea so who knows how many months/year it will take to reach the market.


----------



## Mayhem

lol hold your horses. There is no such thing as plasticizer free in flexible clear tubing. Instead of using DEHP (di-(2-ethylhexyl)-phthalate) we are looking into phthalate free tubing mainly using DEHT aka Dioctyl terephthalate. Ive allready binned a few samples we've had made because they are not upto scratch so yup may take a while for us to find what were looking for.


----------



## M3TAl

I meant not leeching it all over the place


----------



## jotarada

I didnt read all the topics but i can undertand was not supose primoflex advanced lrt tubing got problems...

Só check on image how is mine on 6month using distiled water and kill coil (silver bullet)



that some dust blue ... just on tubing nothing else in the loop ... i go buy now translucid tubing and Aquacomputer Double Protect Ultra blue ... hope doesnt hapen again ....


----------



## Ceadderman

No flex tubing to my knowledge, has been plasticizer free. Whoever can make one, will make a fortune off it to be sure.









~Ceadder


----------



## xxpantherrrxx

I ran Bloodshed red Primochill advanced LRT in my rig for over a year and just redid my loop and the tubing wasn't cloudy and didn't have any build up at all. I could have reused it but I didn't. I just run plain old distilled and a silver kill coil, nothing special.


----------



## Ceadderman

I suspect that leeching plasticizer is due to heat. So if yer not crushing clocks or running load 24/7, you would be less likely to see it. I fold 24/7 so yep I indeed saw it. The plasticizer has a max temp rating and once you hit that the likliehood of it increases.









~Ceadder


----------



## Aparition

I think I posted once or twice before in here.

Just thought I'd give some people an update on my kuhler mod loop.

I switched to durelene tubing.
Mix is 10 parts distilled water. 1 part premixed blue car antifreeze/coolant.

I'll verify later as I'm on my phone but I think it's been 4+ months.
No plasticizer build at all. Still looks very clean.


----------



## OwaN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I suspect that leeching plasticizer is due to heat. So if yer not crushing clocks or running load 24/7, you would be less likely to see it. I fold 24/7 so yep I indeed saw it. The plasticizer has a max temp rating and once you hit that the likliehood of it increases.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


I too fold 24/7 and was seeing some pretty significant plasticizer leeching in my rig. XSPC FLX tubing after 12-14 months



Plasticizer build-up in my XSPC Raystorm after the same period


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I suspect that leeching plasticizer is due to heat. So if yer not crushing clocks or running load 24/7, you would be less likely to see it. I fold 24/7 so yep I indeed saw it. The plasticizer has a max temp rating and once you hit that the likliehood of it increases.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


I'm still building my first loop, but if I end up getting the same leeching problems that some people are posting here... Well let's just say my local plumber will get some more income on copper pipes...


----------



## Eze2kiel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aparition*
> 
> I think I posted once or twice before in here.
> 
> Just thought I'd give some people an update on my kuhler mod loop.
> 
> I switched to durelene tubing.
> Mix is 10 parts distilled water. 1 part premixed blue car antifreeze/coolant.
> 
> I'll verify later as I'm on my phone but I think it's been 4+ months.
> No plasticizer build at all. Still looks very clean.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Yeah!
Durelene Rulez!

In my case I used demineralized water+3% car antifreeze.

One year of use with Durelene:


----------



## Ceadderman

Tbh, you won't notice tubing leech on the outisde looking in. Not 100 percent of the time anyway. REAlly bad cases of it you will. Minor issues are usually found after pulling a tube and inspecting the inside of it.

I didn't realize how bad mine leeched until I noticed my Radiator had some whitish green rings in the bungs. Used a flashlight to inspect how bad it is and noticed that the Intake side of my radiator has a rather large patch of the same stuff on the inner top and the end of the tank that was not there before OR after thorough flushing it. This was done during use. So now I gotta figure a way to get it out and pray that I don't have a blockage in my Radiator.









~Ceadder


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Tbh, you won't notice tubing leech on the outisde looking in. Not 100 percent of the time anyway. REAlly bad cases of it you will. Minor issues are usually found after pulling a tube and inspecting the inside of it.
> 
> I didn't realize how bad mine leeched until I noticed my Radiator had some whitish green rings in the bungs. Used a flashlight to inspect how bad it is and noticed that the Intake side of my radiator has a rather large patch of the same stuff on the inner top and the end of the tank that was not there before OR after thorough flushing it. This was done during use. So now I gotta figure a way to get it out and pray that I don't have a blockage in my Radiator.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


I would jsut run it in reverse with only the rad, res and pump in the loop. And mount a filter after the rad ofcourse...


----------



## Eze2kiel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Tbh, you won't notice tubing leech on the outisde looking in. Not 100 percent of the time anyway. REAlly bad cases of it you will. Minor issues are usually found after pulling a tube and inspecting the inside of it.
> 
> I didn't realize how bad mine leeched until I noticed my Radiator had some whitish green rings in the bungs. Used a flashlight to inspect how bad it is and noticed that the Intake side of my radiator has a rather large patch of the same stuff on the inner top and the end of the tank that was not there before OR after thorough flushing it. This was done during use. So now I gotta figure a way to get it out and pray that I don't have a blockage in my Radiator.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Flush it with hot water and 3% white vinegar.

EDIT: If that doesn't leave...
Try with caustic soda and hot water (but don't leave it too long).
The caustic soda once the use of the washing machine to remove plaque.


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eze2kiel*
> 
> Flush it with hot water and 3% white vinegar.
> 
> EDIT: If that doesn't leave...
> Try with caustic soda and hot water (but don't leave it too long).
> The caustic soda once the use of the washing machine to remove plaque.


Stay away from the caustic soda if you have any aluminium even close to it. I'm guessing you already know that though...


----------



## Eze2kiel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> Stay away from the caustic soda if you have any aluminium even close to it. I'm guessing you already know that though...


Yes I know.
Likewise the idea is to use it sparingly and avoid touching.


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eze2kiel*
> 
> Yes I know.
> Likewise the idea is to use it sparingly and avoid touching.


Personally I would rather use water pressure then chemicals, but there is more then one way to get results. Maybe hooking it up to the faucet and letting it run for 10 min or so (then boiling water to kill bacteria and such). As for Caustic Soda, I'm actually gonna use it to remove some anodizing for my heat sinks in my build







so it's strong stuff for sure.


----------



## quipers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eze2kiel*
> 
> Yeah!
> Durelene Rulez!
> 
> In my case I used demineralized water+3% car antifreeze.
> 
> One year of use with Durelene:
> 
> 
> ...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Tbh, you won't notice tubing leech on the outisde looking in. Not 100 percent of the time anyway. REAlly bad cases of it you will. Minor issues are usually found after pulling a tube and inspecting the inside of it.
> 
> I didn't realize how bad mine leeched until I noticed my Radiator had some whitish green rings in the bungs. Used a flashlight to inspect how bad it is and noticed that the Intake side of my radiator has a rather large patch of the same stuff on the inner top and the end of the tank that was not there before OR after thorough flushing it. This was done during use. So now I gotta figure a way to get it out and pray that I don't have a blockage in my Radiator.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> Durelene
> 
> Here is the tubing since ???? and before removed and cleaned with cotton rag and a wood stick with soap.
> 
> 
> Left tubing Durelene with plasticizer raze inside
> Right New Durelene tubing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right to Left
> 
> New tubing - Used tubing after had been cleaned with cotton rag and wood stick , Used tubing with Plasticizer/haze
> 
> 
> 
> Durelene with Distilled water. Left to right
> 
> New tubing
> New Used tubing after cleaned with cotton rag and a wood stick with soap.
> Used tubing with Plasticizer/haze
> 
> 
> 
> same order, but how those tubing looks better ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but here you can see it better but i changed the order left to right
> 
> Used tubing with Plasticizer/haze
> New tubing
> New Used tubing after cleaned with cotton rag and a wood stick with soap.
> 
> 
> 
> r
> 
> I Had to bring it to a dark background to see it better and here is the proof. Left to right
> 
> Used tubing with Plasticizer/haze
> New Used tubing after cleaned with cotton rag and a wood stick with soap.
> New tubing
> 
> *Over here you can see the plasticizer/haze much better but when its wet you almost cannot see it only if you put a new or a
> cleaned tubing side by side.* Now is time to know how long Durelene toke to get like this. My tubing was changed on 7/31/12 Post #1154 http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/1150#post_17827918
> running Distilled Water with Mayhems Pastel Ice White.
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> PS : keep in mind my rig was running Distilled water with Mayhems Pastel Ice White, Durelene has prove the durability. even running under premix and die, the plasticizer/haze is not noticeable whem the tubing is wet. like I said above only side by side with new tubing.
> ...


bump


----------



## FreeElectron

Opinions?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> I stumbled across this thread while trying to decide for which tubing to use.
> I am not sure which ones should i choose. (Tygon or else and which model)
> 
> Anyway here is what i want.
> 
> *No plasticizer* issues.
> Does *not kink* (or hard to kink)
> Works *safely* with compression fittings (*Least leakage risk*).
> Basically i want something that does *not* have any *problems* and requires *least* *maintenance*.
> Preferred size is *1/2 ID* and *3/4 OD*.
> Does *not* add to *galvanic corrosion*.
> Don't mind using *more fittings* instead of *tight bends*.
> I will be using it in a CPU loop only
> The loop will be in the Thermaltake Core X9 case.
> The tubes will *exit from the back* of the case and then connect to an external radiator.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Opinions?
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> I stumbled across this thread while trying to decide for which tubing to use.
> I am not sure which ones should i choose. (Tygon or else and which model)
> 
> Anyway here is what i want.
> 
> *No plasticizer* issues.
> Does *not kink* (or hard to kink)
> Works *safely* with compression fittings (*Least leakage risk*).
> Basically i want something that does *not* have any *problems* and requires *least* *maintenance*.
> Preferred size is *1/2 ID* and *3/4 OD*.
> Does *not* add to *galvanic corrosion*.
> Don't mind using *more fittings* instead of *tight bends*.
> I will be using it in a CPU loop only
> The loop will be in the Thermaltake Core X9 case.
> The tubes will *exit from the back* of the case and then connect to an external radiator.
Click to expand...

Go with acrylic and that solves everything except Compression Fittings. Unless of course you really *want* Flexible tubing.

~Ceadder


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Go with acrylic and that solves everything except Compression Fittings. Unless of course you really *want* Flexible tubing.
> 
> ~Ceadder


I do want flexible tubing.


----------



## dsmwookie

Tygon Norprene has been very successful for me. I've put it in two of my rigs for several months without a sign of plasticizer.


----------



## Aparition

I'm sticking with durelene.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dsmwookie*
> 
> Tygon Norprene has been very successful for me. I've put it in two of my rigs for several months without a sign of plasticizer.


Which one is the tygon norprene?
I was considering the Tygon 2475 till i found this.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stimr2*
> 
> Do not buy the Tygon 2375 plasticizer free tubing. I've been using Tygon 2375 tubing in my rig for 4 months now. Brand new the tubing wasn't the clearest and would get scuffed up pretty easily.
> 
> 
> Also after a couple months they started to get a very light yellowish tint.


Now i am considering the Primochill primoflex advanced lrt 1/2 id 3/4 od. What do you guys think about it? Is there any reported problems with it? (Advanced not Pro)


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Which one is the tygon norprene?
> I was considering the Tygon 2475 till i found this.
> Now i am considering the Primochill primoflex advanced lrt 1/2 id 3/4 od. What do you guys think about it? Is there any reported problems with it? (Advanced not Pro)


It's named A-60 as far as I know, but I think there is another one with another name as well. It's only non clear tubing though.


----------



## erso44

now I have ordered

1x 280mm rad of phobiya
1x cpu cooler
1x tube
and a connector set

so how can I empty the loop after a year? I can order a valve but I don´t know how to connect it. Maybe you guys can help me if I need an adapter for the tube/valve (my question is which one do I need)...
I would like to buy this valve if you recommend me

http://www.aquatuning.de/wasserkuehlung/anschluesse/kugelhaehne-ventile/14218/phobya-2-wege-kugelhahn-g1/4-geraendelt?c=282


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> It's named A-60 as far as I know, but I think there is another one with another name as well. It's only non clear tubing though.


Is it known to have no issues and meet my requirements?
or Is it just a good experience on your part?

Anyway Tygon A-60 listed for searching
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aparition*
> 
> I'm sticking with durelene.


Same questions and also durelene tubing listed for searching.

How do the durelene and the Tygon A-60 compare to the Primochilll primoflex advanced LRT? Better? Worse? Cheaper?


----------



## Costas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *erso44*
> 
> so how can I empty the loop after a year? I can order a valve but I don´t know how to connect it.


You can install a valve like the one you have linked, however it should be mounted somewhere at the lowest part of the loop to facilitate easy draining. If it is higher up in your loop it becomes difficult to remove all your coolant as you need to lift and tip/rotate your case etc.

Here is a pic of mine - I used a Bitspower valve. When I need to drain my loop I simply remove the cap on the valve and screw in a spare length of tubing which has a male 1/4' connector to suit the valve. I then simply open the tap and the used coolant simply flows out into a bucket. It is basically a hassle free no mess setup.

Once finished I simply close the valve, remove the hose and fit the small screw in stop fitting and then refill my loop via my reservoir top. The stop fitting is not necessary as the valve stops all fluid from escaping when its closed - However it just makes the assembly look better.


----------



## FreeElectron

Tygon A-60-G: Industrial Grade has a reported problem.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xyeLz*
> 
> I prefer a clean look to my builds, rather than the LEDs and whatnot. While cool, it's just not my taste I guess.
> 
> What I'm trying to say is that I prefer either clear or black tubing as well.
> 
> I learned some hard lessons during my first ever build, which happened to be watercooled:
> 
> *Tygon black laboratory tubing is NOT a viable option. Plasticizer will leak everywhere and ruin your loop.*
> *Tygon clear plasticizer-free tubing is an option, but I don't recommend it as it is very inflexible when you need to make a bend. It also has a tendency to come out of the bit if it isn't easily secured into place.*
> 
> I may be purchasing some new tubing since I will be getting a new reservoir. I _do_ really appreciate the quality of Tygon's clear, plasticizer-free tubing, but it just isn't flexible enough.
> 
> Does anyone know where I can find the best plasticizer-free tubing, in black or clear, for my loop? I would prefer clear to be honest... If Tygon offers something more flexible that I bypassed, please let me know! The Tygon laboratory tubing was perfectly flexible, but it yucked everything up beyond belief.


Now, i am trying to decide between Durelene or Primoflex advanced lrt.
I can't seem to find much info about the durelene though.


----------



## Ceadderman

As Costas said, you can install a Valve. But you can install a short piece of tubing with a fitting(Barb or Compression) a fem/fem barrel and a plug. When it's time to drain pull the end out past the caseopening and drain into a bucket. Replace the cap and refill your loop. Easy peasy.









~Ceadder


----------



## quipers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Now, i am trying to decide between Durelene or Primoflex advanced lrt.
> I can't seem to find much info about the durelene though.


Here you go:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1218288/please-contribute-ocn-wc-tubing-database/100_100#post_21342674

http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2800_100#post_23397192
http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2400_100#post_19255746
http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2700_100#post_21522136
http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2400_100#post_19266771
http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2800_100#post_22812007
http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/1800_100#post_18587096

Durelene is much less expensive and a bit more flexibile. If you scroll up in the thread to a week or two ago, you will find Eze2kiel's strong endorsement of Durelene.
However, a number of users have had problems with it, particularly after extended use. There have also been a few reports of problems with PrimChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT after extended use, but as far as I have seen, there are far more reports of problems with Durelene than with the Advanced LRT. (Some of that may be due to a much larger number of people having tried Durelene though, since it was introduced earlier and is a lot cheaper.) It has not been clear to what extent the particular coolant being used, the temperatures involved, and the materials used for the other components in the loop may have contributed to issues with Durelene.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *quipers*
> 
> Here you go:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1218288/please-contribute-ocn-wc-tubing-database/100_100#post_21342674
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2800_100#post_23397192
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2400_100#post_19255746
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2700_100#post_21522136
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2400_100#post_19266771
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2800_100#post_22812007
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/1800_100#post_18587096
> 
> Durelene is much less expensive and a bit more flexibile. If you scroll up in the thread to a week or two ago, you will find Eze2kiel's strong endorsement of Durelene.
> However, a number of users have had problems with it, particularly after extended use. There have also been a few reports of problems with PrimChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT after extended use, but as far as I have seen, there are far more reports of problems with Durelene than with the Advanced LRT. (Some of that may be due to a much larger number of people having tried Durelene though, since it was introduced earlier and is a lot cheaper.) It has not been clear to what extent the particular coolant being used, the temperatures involved, and the materials used for the other components in the loop may have contributed to issues with Durelene.


Extremely appreciated.
The second url you posted compared both durelene and primoflex advanced. and the primoflex advanced wins that one.
I think i will be going with the advanced because of two reasons
1- The price difference isn't worth the trouble.
2- As mentioned, people seem to have less problems with the primoflex Advanced.
Even when comparing the primoflex advanced to the tygon. I have found less complaints about the primoflex advanced than the tygon.


----------



## DerComissar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *quipers*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Now, i am trying to decide between Durelene or Primoflex advanced lrt.
> I can't seem to find much info about the durelene though.
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1218288/please-contribute-ocn-wc-tubing-database/100_100#post_21342674
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2800_100#post_23397192
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2400_100#post_19255746
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2700_100#post_21522136
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2400_100#post_19266771
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2800_100#post_22812007
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/1800_100#post_18587096
> 
> Durelene is much less expensive and a bit more flexibile. If you scroll up in the thread to a week or two ago, you will find Eze2kiel's strong endorsement of Durelene.
> However, a number of users have had problems with it, particularly after extended use. There have also been a few reports of problems with PrimChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT after extended use, but as far as I have seen, there are far more reports of problems with Durelene than with the Advanced LRT. (Some of that may be due to a much larger number of people having tried Durelene though, since it was introduced earlier and is a lot cheaper.) It has not been clear to what extent the particular coolant being used, the temperatures involved, and the materials used for the other components in the loop may have contributed to issues with Durelene.
Click to expand...

Very good post. Rep+









My experience with both has been similar. No plasticizer issues, the Durelene is somewhat softer than the Primo, and a lot cheaper.


----------



## Costas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DerComissar*
> 
> Durelene is somewhat softer than the Primo, and a lot cheaper.


This indicates that Duralene tubing consists of more plasticizer components, as plasticizers are added to plastic products to make them softer and pliable.

I have been using Primochill Advanced LRT for a relatively short time (7 months) but so far it still looks good. This tubing is quite stiff so it can be awkward to work with in the larger diameter variant.

After 7 months it still looks quite transparent with no hint of any buildup etc. I had to empty my loop the other week as I delidded my 4790K - The tubing still looked good. Below is a quick pic I took when I just refilled and started to bleed the system of air.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Costas*
> 
> This indicates that Duralene tubing consists of more plasticizer components, as plasticizers are added to plastic products to make them softer and pliable.
> 
> I have been using Primochill Advanced LRT for a relatively short time (7 months) but so far it still looks good. This tubing is quite stiff so it can be awkward to work with in the larger diameter variant.
> 
> After 7 months it still looks quite transparent with no hint of any buildup etc. I had to empty my loop the other week as I delidded my 4790K - The tubing still looked good. Below is a quick pic I took when I just refilled and started to bleed the system of air.


Thanks for the input.
7 months is more than half a year . Not long but good enough


----------



## Costas

Yeh I agree that 7 months is not exactly a long time but that is only how long I have been running this tubing when I built my new pc.


----------



## Aparition

I'm running durelene with distilled and blue car coolant.

It is softer than other tubing so just something to consider. My loop is from modded kuhler aio's so it is a mix of copper and aluminum.

No silver or additional additives.

I've seen many reports of similar loops having issues with silver compared with those with the same setup without silver, so I am not using silver.

I expect the same performance from LRT tubing.

I got my tubing from Amazon but it came from here...
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/dupvctu3id1o.html

The water absorption is the important part. LRT has a better rate by specs. I believe that the preventive properties of the car coolant I'm using aid in my tubing lasting longer.

I consider a year of use a good life span. I'm getting towards six months now and my loop still looks clean.


----------



## Costas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aparition*
> 
> I believe that the preventive properties of the car coolant I'm using aid in my tubing lasting longer.


Yeh you wonder if that is indeed a valid observation. I also exclusively run an automotive coolant diluted with distilled water (approx 5% concentrate) and nothing else.

One thing you don't really read about on these forums is people having issues with automotive type coolants although that could be because of the lower number of users I guess?


----------



## Aparition

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Costas*
> 
> Yeh you wonder if that is indeed a valid observation. I also exclusively run an automotive coolant diluted with distilled water (approx 5% concentrate) and nothing else.
> 
> One thing you don't really read about on these forums is people having issues with automotive type coolants although that could be because of the lower number of users I guess?


Probably yes. I'm sure only older members go with this method. It also isn't cool, flashy, or come in specific colors, so probably less likely to be considered when designing a custom loop.

Which begs me to wonder how dye might work in this setup...


----------



## Ceadderman

Use Mayhems or EK coolant. Both have additives so you wouldn't need Antifreeze in your loop. I'm old but I've never used AF in my loop and I am not about to start. Worked in Automitive Parts Supply so I wouldn't recommend it. A bottle of Biocide is much cheaper after all. I get it, but nope, no AF for me.

~Ceadder


----------



## Costas

Why wouldn't you recommend it?

If you can manage the toxicity issue (ie don't go drinking it) it works extremely well.

The advantage of this type of coolant is the fact it provides the best corrosion protection, is a biocide and it also provides a better form of lubrication for your pump bearings. It is also much cheaper than other pc specific coolants.

There are many examples where people have been running auto coolants in their loops for extended periods (ie 2yrs plus) and their components still look shiny and brand new on the inside.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Costas*
> 
> Why wouldn't you recommend it?
> 
> If you can manage the toxicity issue (ie don't go drinking it) it works extremely well.
> 
> The advantage of this type of coolant is the fact it provides the best corrosion protection, is a biocide and it also provides a better form of lubrication for your pump bearings. It is also much cheaper than other pc specific coolants.
> 
> There are many examples where people have been running auto coolants in their loops for extended periods (ie 2yrs plus) and their components still look shiny and brand new on the inside.


I will be asking for more details on that later when i start deciding on the coolant and chemicals in the loops


----------



## Costas

I think that the biggest gripe some have with glycol based coolants is the toxic effects if its ingested.


----------



## Ceadderman

Yes; Not to mention that it's a pollutant that should NEVER be disposed of by pouring it down the drain, on the ground, in storm drains. If you use the stuff, use it responsibly. Take it to local disposal sites rather than just chucking it into the environment. This is why I just use Distilled with no additives. Yes I have to flush the loop more often but it's cheap enough to flush my loop four times(or more) with a single gallon jug of WalMart brand Distilled.









~Ceadder


----------



## Costas

^^^

Good point.... In my case my brother works in the auto trade... I usually pass on all my old oils and fluids to him for recycling.


----------



## Aparition

I used car coolant because I own a car, that uses blue coolant, so essentially it was already available to me.

I only needed about 2 ounces of the already 50/50 mix.

If the concern is about using glycol then note that all marketed AIO's use a glycol coolant mix.


----------



## Eze2kiel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aparition*
> 
> I used car coolant because I own a car, that uses blue coolant, so essentially it was already available to me.
> 
> I only needed about 2 ounces of the already 50/50 mix.
> 
> If the concern is about using glycol then note that all marketed AIO's use a glycol coolant mix.


50/50???!!!
OMG!!! Nooooooo!

The drama of alone water is the deterioration.



Up to 5% of the coolant doesn't affect the performance and prevents water put ugly.

I use 3% coolant and 97% demineralized water.

EDIT: If you use 50% car coolant DESTROYS pump.


----------



## Aparition

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eze2kiel*
> 
> 50/50???!!!
> OMG!!! Nooooooo!
> 
> The drama of alone water is the deterioration.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Up to 5% of the coolant doesn't affect the performance and prevents water put ugly.
> 
> I use 3% coolant and 97% demineralized water.
> 
> EDIT: If you use 50% car coolant DESTROYS pump.


Re-read my post. Lol calm down.

I used 2 ounces of a 50/50 mix. You can buy car coolant here that comes in pre-mix 50/50 solution.
10 parts distilled water, 1 part coolant. Probably closer to your ratio. Heavily diluted.


----------



## Eze2kiel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aparition*
> 
> Re-read my post. Lol calm down.
> 
> I used 2 ounces of a 50/50 mix. You can buy car coolant here that comes in pre-mix 50/50 solution.
> 10 parts distilled water, 1 part coolant. Probably closer to your ratio. Heavily diluted.


Now he understood better









Here in Argentina also have the premix ready and pure coolant (for use in WC have to dilute in water).

Good thing you mentioned better what you were trying to say.








I thought you had filled with 50% pure coolant and 50% water.


----------



## Ceadderman

Hahaha geez I hope not.

As far as WOO coolers, only worry withthem is one block and they typically feature Aluminium and the copper cooling plate. Taking them into a licensed recycler gets you a couple of bucks and they generally dispose of them correctly. Or they get shut down for improper disposal(usually for more than a simple AIO mishandling), all I am saying is that I don't suggest using the stuff and if you do to do so responsibly.







not judging just my









~Ceadder


----------



## cmpxchg8b

I started disassembling my loop and... damn! Plasticizer! Quick disconnects have plenty of it. What's strange though is that I have two QDs, and one has lots of plasticizer deposited on it, but the other one has much less. Tubes also seem to have different amount of plastizier deposited in different places. Go figure.

Tubes that are use are PrimoFlex Advanced LRT.

Will remove and open up waterblocks in the next few days. Scared to look inside!


----------



## Unicr0nhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cmpxchg8b*
> 
> I started disassembling my loop and... damn! Plasticizer! Quick disconnects have plenty of it. What's strange though is that I have two QDs, and one has lots of plasticizer deposited on it, but the other one has much less. Tubes also seem to have different amount of plastizier deposited in different places. Go figure.
> 
> Tubes that are use are PrimoFlex Advanced LRT.
> 
> Will remove and open up waterblocks in the next few days. Scared to look inside!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Not so sure that's plasticizer, especially with Advanced LRT. What kind of QDCs are those?

Just asking because that looks a lot like what's been happening to Black Koolance QDC owners that looks a bit like plasticizer but it's not as even people running acrylic or neoprene tubing have had the same whitish gunk buildup on them, damaged finish, and the QDCs failing to operate properly, locking up and such. There's a thread about it ...

http://www.overclock.net/t/1404275/black-koolance-quick-disconnect-owners/


----------



## cmpxchg8b

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unicr0nhunter*
> 
> Not so sure that's plasticizer, especially with Advanced LRT. What kind of QDCs are those?
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1404275/black-koolance-quick-disconnect-owners/


Those are Swiftech QDs. Actually now that I took them apart and let them dry, I am not sure myself. I see two different things going on:

1. Plastic-looking transparent web of residue which I thought is plasticizer (idk, maybe not).
2. Solid black layer of residue, sort of like a film covering the inside areas. When it dries, it sometimes forms bubbles and peels away. Looks pretty nasty and is even worse than item 1.

The QDs are in fact so clogged with all this junk so that they don't even close properly, and I had hard time disconnecting them.

This whole maintenance started in response to one GPU running +10 C hotter than the rest... Hope waterblocks are not beyond repair with all this stuff floating around in the loop.

Thanks for the link; I saw that too and it does in fact look similar to what I see. Looks like the problem is not specific to Koolance QDs. I'll post more pictures as I go through my maintenance chores fun.


----------



## cmpxchg8b

Alright, more pictures. Warning! Disturbing content. Viewer discretion advised.

Quick disconnects:


^^^ This is what I think is the plasticizer.


^^^ Note the chipping black film inside.

And waterblock:



What _is_ this black stuff? It seems to be coming from the chip area which is the hottest. Seems like it is this black junk that clogged the QD above. I noticed that the up-stream QD (before GPUs) is much cleaner, while the downstream one (after GPUs) is all covered in black.


----------



## Costas

3rd pic down looks like a corrosion issue...??


----------



## cmpxchg8b

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Costas*
> 
> 3rd pic down looks like a corrosion issue...??


idk... I think this peeling stuff is some residue deposited on the inside. When it dries up, it starts chipping. Probably the same black stuff that can be seen inside the waterblock.


----------



## Ceadderman

It's corrosion bruh. You gots it bad.

Put ketchup in the chamber of the GPU block and it should clean it right up. Those QDs however are done like burnt toast. YOu will have to ketchup that block a few times to get it clean. Put it in spread it around with. Your finger til it is filled completely and let it sit. I did that with my Copper Supremacy and it cleaned out almost all of the corrosion in it.









~Ceadder


----------



## cmpxchg8b

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> It's corrosion bruh. You gots it bad.
> ~Ceadder


Good to know, thanks for advice!

What's strange though is that corrosion / black residue increases downstream. The picture above is GPU 3; I took apart waterblock from GPU 1, and it is much cleaner. Will check 2 and 4 tomorrow. I wonder what causes corrosion to accumulate like that.

Kinda sucks QDs need to be replaced; those were pretty expensive.

Do you think vinegar would work for cleaning copper blocks instead of ketchup?


----------



## Ceadderman

I use Heinz 57 which has salt in it, so no I don't believe vinegar would do it.

Tomatoes (acidic)
Vinegar
Salt.

Between the 3 ingedients interacting with the corosion it's simply more than eve straight vinegar could do and I would have to know the Ph level of their vinegar to figure out how much to use with distilled, not to damage the blocks.

Whereas Ketcup bath inside the chamber rinsed with hot tap and repeated as necessary won't damage the copper. IT really does work. It will take a few times to clean it thoroughly, especially the microchannels. Which is why you have to push the stuff in with your fingertip.









~Ceadder


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I use Heinz 57 which has salt in it, so no I don't believe vinegar would do it.
> 
> Tomatoes (acidic)
> Vinegar
> Salt.
> 
> Between the 3 ingedients interacting with the corosion it's simply more than eve straight vinegar could do and I would have to know the Ph level of their vinegar to figure out how much to use with distilled, not to damage the blocks.
> 
> Whereas Ketcup bath inside the chamber rinsed with hot tap and repeated as necessary won't damage the copper. IT really does work. It will take a few times to clean it thoroughly, especially the microchannels. Which is why you have to push the stuff in with your fingertip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


From what I have seen though citrus acid will work great on copper as well. One reason to be skeptical to ketchup is if you can't get it entirely away after use. All ketchup contains sugar as far as I know and sugar will not only clog up the loop, but also feed fungus (not sure about algae tough). Other then that the acidic contents of the ketchup will have the desired effect, so you will get rid of the corrosion at least.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I use Heinz 57 which has salt in it, so no I don't believe vinegar would do it.
> 
> Tomatoes (acidic)
> Vinegar
> Salt.
> 
> Between the 3 ingedients interacting with the corosion it's simply more than eve straight vinegar could do and I would have to know the Ph level of their vinegar to figure out how much to use with distilled, not to damage the blocks.
> 
> Whereas Ketcup bath inside the chamber rinsed with hot tap and repeated as necessary won't damage the copper. IT really does work. It will take a few times to clean it thoroughly, especially the microchannels. Which is why you have to push the stuff in with your fingertip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what I have seen though citrus acid will work great on copper as well. One reason to be skeptical to ketchup is if you can't get it entirely away after use. All ketchup contains sugar as far as I know and sugar will not only clog up the loop, but also feed fungus (not sure about algae tough). Other then that the acidic contents of the ketchup will have the desired effect, so you will get rid of the corrosion at least.
Click to expand...

Hence rinsing with HOT tap water. No sugars will remain. Citrus also has sugars of a sort, called Pectin. It's just as sticky imho.









~Ceadder


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Hence rinsing with HOT tap water. No sugars will remain. Citrus also has sugars of a sort, called Pectin. It's just as sticky imho.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Fair enough, I still have to rinse my CPU block though. Not sure if it's plasticizer, algae or corrosion, but it's hard as hell to get away. It's what I get for buying a used block I guess... going to polish the acrylic on it so I want as much reflection from that nickel as possible


----------



## cmpxchg8b

Ok, after reading all this I decided to give vinegar a try. Man, does this stuff work! I poured vinegar into backplate chamber and left it there for an hour and half - just by doing that much of black stuff went away or lightened up considerably. Then I used cotton swab, and the rest was coming off really easily! Since I do not need to look it "like new" and just want to remove the excess, I was done in 10 minutes and rinsed everything thoroughly, and I am pretty happy with the result so far.

Still have to go through 3 more blocks, but the rest seem not as bad as the one in the pictures.

As a side note, I found what I think is a very slow leak in block #4, between the copper thermal plate and the steel cover. Sealing ring looks OK though, so maybe tightening the screws will help. That's the way the block came from the factory. So it's a good thing to take things apart and check them once in a while.


----------



## RnRollie

I may have asked this before...

Since hard, rigid tubing is "the new black" nowadays, why not use PEX (hdpe,xlpe) pipe?

Since it is good enough to be used in domestic plumbing/drinking water, i assume it has passed a lot of health & safety tests and should be (almost) Plasticizer free (as far as i know).
And its cheaper as the known-brand-name-watercooling-specialist-hoses/pipes.... a lot cheaper actually. and no more difficult to work with as the brand-WC-rigid-pipe.
You can even have PEX pipe with alu oxigen barrier... and as long as you dont expose it to UV too much, it lasts a lifetime.

Now, i haven't seen any reports on plasticizer issues with PEX, but maybe i"m wrong.
Anybody knows something about it?

PS: i did see a few reports that suggest that Plasticizer leeching soon will no longer be an issue in "common garden hose".
So, i predict a future where we can use PEX for "rigid" pipe and common garden hose for 'normal' tubing..... a flashback to the 1990's actually


----------



## Aparition

I've never seen PEX come in a clear version. One of the advantages of hard tubing is you can really show off the coolant without worry.


----------



## M3TAl

For inquiring minds:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> At the risk of stealing some of Mick's thunder: http://mayhems.co.uk/store/mayhems-desolation-ultra-clear-tubing-1-2-3-4-19-13mm-tubing.html
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Mayhems Desolation Ultra Clear Tubing is the new standard of Ultra-Clear tubing from Mayhems. Our new flexible liquid cooling tubing surpasses all new high EU standards that are coming into effect and uses new Polymer Additives that do not leach plasticizers into the system causing fouling and blockages. Mayhems Desolation Ultra-Clear Does not use any Phthalate materials again aiding in a higher quality tubing. Mayhems has worked very closely with a leading tubing manufacture with in the UK to bring you this high grade product so you no longer have to take a chance with subpar tubing any more.
> 
> Mayhems Desolation Ultra Clear Tubing has a little secret up it arm as well, if the tubing clouds you can restore it to its Ultra Clear state (just like new / selfheal technology), more information will be forth coming on release.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Mayhem*
> 
> The tubing is going out to testers first before it will be retail, as most of you know this will take some time. More info will come forward once we've finished testing. We've also improved on flexibility to be better than PC but again more infor to come.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Aparition

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> For inquiring minds:


If the method to restore that tubing is to "bake it"


----------



## M3TAl

Looking forward to this. Mayhems always does their homework to release truly refined products


----------



## cmpxchg8b

Finally cleaned all the waterblocks... OK, looks like that was not even plasticizer but copper corrosion, but anyway FWIW.


----------



## Ceadderman

Looks like they are rather in need of some more cleanings. That corrosion will be back otherwise, cause you can clearly see the corosion in the microchannels. But the are looking better for sure. Can't even tell which it was you first started out showing from the others.









~Ceadder


----------



## cmpxchg8b

Corrosion will be back regardless, I think... If it started the first time and nothing changes much this time?


----------



## Unicr0nhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cmpxchg8b*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Alright, more pictures. Warning! Disturbing content. Viewer discretion advised.
> 
> Quick disconnects:
> 
> 
> ^^^ This is what I think is the plasticizer.
> 
> 
> ^^^ Note the chipping black film inside.
> 
> And waterblock:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What _is_ this black stuff? It seems to be coming from the chip area which is the hottest. Seems like it is this black junk that clogged the QD above. I noticed that the up-stream QD (before GPUs) is much cleaner, while the downstream one (after GPUs) is all covered in black.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cmpxchg8b*
> 
> 
> 
> Finally cleaned all the waterblocks... OK, looks like that was not even plasticizer but copper corrosion, but anyway FWIW.


Copper in a loop typically turns totally black-brown in almost no time at all due to normal oxidation. I've yet to see any copper in contact with the fluid in a loop not do it. It's not corrosion, and it doesn't spread to other parts in a loop. It's just a patina that doesn't hurt anything, does not effect cooling performance at all, and actually forms a layer that helps protect copper against corrosion. You can almost always clean up copper back to spotless again with a soak in lemon juice or vinegar solution, but it's totally unnecessary. Only time I ever clean up the patina off of a copper block is before I put it up for sale.

Here's OCN's watercooling editor @Juggalo23451 with a video on cleaning a copper waterblock at the part where he's showing / discussing normal oxidation on copper ...


----------



## cmpxchg8b

I figured as much about patina too, but is does look like water can carry it away and deposit in other places in the loop. In the "before" picture you can see how dark stains follow water flow. And I can see lots of black film residue inside fittings and quick disconnects. It is especially strong downstream from waterblocks. What's worse is that when enough of this film accumulates, it begins flaking and may clog waterblock channels. Hence I thought I'd better clean it up a bit.

Also my loop was under-radded and water temperature reached 50-55 C, which I think contributed to accelerated development of patina. I am in the process of migrating the build to a different case (well, I don't have the case yet...), which should drop water temperature considerably, so hopefully next time I won't have as much of patina contamination.

Thanks for the link!


----------



## Costas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unicr0nhunter*
> 
> Copper in a loop typically turns totally black-brown in almost no time at all due to normal oxidation. I've yet to see any copper in contact with the fluid in a loop not do it. It's not corrosion


If you utilise a glycol based anti-corrosive coolants the copper will tend to stay shiny a not oxidise. I have always stuck with auto based coolants for my builds and copper blocks always remain shiny on their insides.


----------



## Aparition

Funny how the original Concept continues to be a constant and reliable option









Car heater cores, coolant, fish pumps, and chemical tubing.


----------



## chillidog

another way of cleaning copper blocks is by using Ketchup ,its simple and everyone has got in the kitchen . apply it all over and leave it for few minutes then with an soft tooth brush just brush away . when done wash it all off with warm water and let it dry.it what we used to do in the metal detecting when we find any old copper coins its simple and cheap and it works enjoy


----------



## Costas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chillidog*
> 
> another way of cleaning copper blocks is by using Ketchup


Ketchup is usually full of vinegar - so It would be the vinegar doing all the work.


----------



## Unicr0nhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Costas*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *chillidog*
> 
> another way of cleaning copper blocks is by using Ketchup
> 
> 
> 
> Ketchup is usually full of vinegar - so It would be the vinegar doing all the work.
Click to expand...

Ketchup (or catsup) also contains salt which when combined with the acetic acid from the vinegar produces sodium acetate and hydrogen chloride which is a very effective combination for cleaning copper, much more so than vinegar alone.

http://www.chem.umn.edu/outreach/Card-SaltVinCopper.html

Just sayin', it's not just "the vinegar doing all the work".









All that said, I prefer to soak my copper overnight in lemon juice. Works wonders. Blocks look like brand new again.


----------



## Costas

Yeh - forgot about the salt..








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unicr0nhunter*
> 
> Ketchup (or catsup) also contains salt which when combined with the acetic acid from the vinegar produces sodium acetate and hydrogen chloride which is a very effective combination for cleaning


I'll remember that next time I squirt ketchup on my hot dog and gulp it down into my stomach...









I think more of you guys should start running a watered down mix of auto coolant. As these have really good anti corrosive ingredients you never end up having to spend time cleaning blocks - they just stay looking like new...!

Just don't drink the stuff though...


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unicr0nhunter*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Costas*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *chillidog*
> 
> another way of cleaning copper blocks is by using Ketchup
> 
> 
> 
> Ketchup is usually full of vinegar - so It would be the vinegar doing all the work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ketchup (or catsup) also contains salt which when combined with the acetic acid from the vinegar produces sodium acetate and hydrogen chloride which is a very effective combination for cleaning copper, much more so than vinegar alone.
> 
> http://www.chem.umn.edu/outreach/Card-SaltVinCopper.html
> 
> Just sayin', it's not just "the vinegar doing all the work".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that said, *I prefer to soak my copper overnight in lemon juice*. Works wonders. Blocks look like brand new again.
Click to expand...

I think that I will have ta give that a try. I've got an industrial size bottle of that stuff. My girl likes lemon on her seafood.









~Ceadder


----------



## chillidog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Costas*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *chillidog*
> 
> another way of cleaning copper blocks is by using Ketchup
> 
> 
> 
> Ketchup is usually full of vinegar - so It would be the vinegar doing all the work.
Click to expand...

its not all vinegar in ketchup, you also find its an mixture of the vinegar,salt and some other magic ingredients. also to mention while lemon juice will work it can may also dissolve a small amount of the copper too


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chillidog*
> 
> its not all vinegar in ketchup, you also find its an mixture of the vinegar,salt and some other magic ingredients. also to mention while lemon juice will work it can may also dissolve a small amount of the copper too


Which is exactly what the ketchup does as well, all ascids and bases dissolves a bit of the metal. It's just something that you will have to live with, otherwise regular dishsoap will work wonders getting the nasty stuff away. To get corrosion away you will have to use a corrosive solution, it's the same as removing rust from iron (sanding it away). As long as you're carefull with the exposure time it won't pose a problem. I still don't like using ketchup though, although I have done it in the past. IT's just that sugars and such are really dificult to remove and could clog up your system quite fast. As long as you rinse it well enough like @Ceadderman sugested, it should be fine. I'm still hesitant though, but that is more becasue I worry to much.


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I think that I will have ta give that a try. I've got an industrial size bottle of that stuff. My girl likes lemon on her seafood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


I do lemon juice as well, absolutely hate the smell of vinegar. Lemon juice smells pretty good


----------



## cmpxchg8b

Good point about salt. I tried pure vinegar, and it worked really well - next time if it gets bad I'll add salt for extra cleaning performance.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I think that I will have ta give that a try. I've got an industrial size bottle of that stuff. My girl likes lemon on her seafood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do lemon juice as well, absolutely hate the smell of vinegar. Lemon juice smells pretty good
Click to expand...

Did the Lemon bit and it really did a good job cleaning out the microchannels in my Supremacy. Hardly a trace of the corrosion/algae left. You can see where it was but it's a far sight better than that sorry black stuff that greeted me when I opened my block this past summer.









Ketchup







check
Vinegar







double check
Lemon







OMG it's caleeeeaaaaan!









~Ceadder


----------



## dfw-buzzkill

Noticed this build up in my red the other day. I'm using advanced lrt. Certainly looks like plasticizer. Tubing is 6 months old, running distilled water and mayhem blue dye. Gonna tear down my loop this weekend and get everything cleaned out.

Wondering if I just got a bad batch or it had sat in microcenter for too long.


----------



## Ceadderman

Or they sold you LRT instead of Advanced.









~Ceadder


----------



## Costas

What does your tubing look like?


----------



## MrPhysique

I have advanced LRT as well with buildup, all tubing will build up regardless of brand. It's just that some are slower than others. If you want no build up of plasticizer, then go with acrylic..


----------



## Costas

....but his loop is only 6 months old. I suspect theres something else going on than a simple case of plasticiser buildup.

My current loop is 9 months old yet my system is xtal clear - Also using Advanced LRT but a different coolant.


----------



## MrPhysique

One very important factor to consider is heat inside the case, the higher the temperature of the coolant over longer periods the faster the buildup. Keep your temps as low as you can.


----------



## dfw-buzzkill

It was a retail package of the 10 ft advanced lrt, still have the box and 2 ish feet. Feels considerably softer than the new tube I got in the mail though. Air temps inside the case should be fine, but I'll check later before I tear the loop apart.


----------



## dfw-buzzkill

Only thing I can think of is since it is in a air 540 the rear chamber could've gotten hot since both the power supply intake and exaust were in a corner and like 3ish inches from the wall....


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dfw-buzzkill*
> 
> It was a retail package of the 10 ft advanced lrt, still have the box and 2 ish feet. Feels considerably softer than the new tube I got in the mail though. Air temps inside the case should be fine, but I'll check later before I tear the loop apart.


Hmm. Advanced LRT should be somewhat stiff. It's definitely stiffer than the fake Adv LRT I received from Jabtech(probably PRO LRT, cloudly in a few months) and the Durelene I've used.


----------



## dfw-buzzkill

Here's a photo of the tubing I pulled off earlier. Whipes off with a que tip. Fittings have some white build up on the inside. Any recommendations on cleaning them?


----------



## ALT F4

Reading through about durelene and tygon, should I just avoid the risk and buy primochill advanced lrt?


----------



## quipers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ALT F4*
> 
> Reading through about durelene and tygon, should I just avoid the risk and buy primochill advanced lrt?


Yes


----------



## Gil80

Thank god I found this thread.

I've raised this question http://www.overclock.net/t/1556272/what-am-i-doing-wrong-in-my-cooling-loop#post_23925554 because I'm facing plasticise and leeching issues with the primoflex.
So I see that Duralene is doing well, however I cannot find it in Australia. Can someone ship it for me, to the land down under?


----------



## Gil80

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ALT F4*
> 
> Reading through about durelene and tygon, should I just avoid the risk and buy primochill advanced lrt?


What risks with Duralene? because I'm having issues with the Primochill LRT Advanced.


----------



## Gil80

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Costas*
> 
> If you utilise a glycol based anti-corrosive coolants the copper will tend to stay shiny a not oxidise. I have always stuck with auto based coolants for my builds and copper blocks always remain shiny on their insides.


so it's OK to use car coolants on PC water cooling systems?


----------



## Ceadderman

Yes its okay. But I wouldn't because it's toxic and there are additives to reduce friction that aren't required for water cooling pumps as their bearings aren't in the loop itself.

But if you want you can use it, but I suggest caution and be responsible with the waste.

~Ceadder


----------



## Costas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gil80*
> 
> so it's OK to use car coolants on PC water cooling systems?


Many have used them for long periods of time without issue. In fact you will have trouble trying to find any threads where people have had issues when using glycol based coolants.

The main advantage of an automotive based coolant is that it is a proven corrosion inhibitor and it is also a strong biocide.... So there is no requirement for any other additives.

As far as toxicity is concerned you need to be mindful that it is toxic if swallowed...so don't drink the stuff....! Also note that any old coolant can actually be recycled so just take any used coolant to a local auto workshop and they can add it to their coolant recycling stash ie. Don't pour it down the sink etc.

I use a concentrate which I dilute down with distilled water. I mix it at a 5% concentration so a small bottle of the concentrate allows me to mix up quite a lot of coolant ie. It works out quite cheap.

Since you are also in Aus...here is the stuff I and many others use....http://tectaloy.wmehost.com/product/xtra-cool-gold-red-coolant-radiator-corrosion-inhibitor-concentrate/

MSDS for their products: http://tectaloy.wmehost.com/tech-info/msds/

This particular coolant concentrate is specifically formulated as a corrosion inhibitor rather than an antifreeze so its not recommended for use at very low (freezing) temps. Only catch is that it is red.... They also make a concentrate in green if that suits better.


----------



## Gil80

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Costas*
> 
> Many have used them for long periods of time without issue. In fact you will have trouble trying to find any threads where people have had issues when using glycol based coolants.
> 
> The main advantage of an automotive based coolant is that it is a proven corrosion inhibitor and it is also a strong biocide.... So there is no requirement for any other additives.
> 
> As far as toxicity is concerned you need to be mindful that it is toxic if swallowed...so don't drink the stuff....! Also note that any old coolant can actually be recycled so just take any used coolant to a local auto workshop and they can add it to their coolant recycling stash ie. Don't pour it down the sink etc.
> 
> I use a concentrate which I dilute down with distilled water. I mix it at a 5% concentration so a small bottle of the concentrate allows me to mix up quite a lot of coolant ie. It works out quite cheap.
> 
> Since you are also in Aus...here is the stuff I and many others use....http://tectaloy.wmehost.com/product/xtra-cool-gold-red-coolant-radiator-corrosion-inhibitor-concentrate/
> 
> MSDS for their products: http://tectaloy.wmehost.com/tech-info/msds/
> 
> This particular coolant concentrate is specifically formulated as a corrosion inhibitor rather than an antifreeze so its not recommended for use at very low (freezing) temps. Only catch is that it is red.... They also make a concentrate in green if that suits better.


Thanks!
Do they make blue?







that's my colour scheme.

Here is a post I made regarding my tubing and plasticise issue: http://www.overclock.net/t/1218288/please-contribute-ocn-wc-tubing-database/150#post_23928867


----------



## Costas

Tectaloy don't make a blue coolant but Nulon do.....

http://www.nulon.com.au/products/Cooling_Systems/Blue_Long_Life_Premix_Coolant/#.VVvchp-GTMI

Check their website for retail stores in NSW.


----------



## Gil80

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Costas*
> 
> Tectaloy don't make a blue coolant but Nulon do.....
> 
> http://www.nulon.com.au/products/Cooling_Systems/Blue_Long_Life_Premix_Coolant/#.VVvchp-GTMI
> 
> Check their website for retail stores in NSW.


probably stupid question, but I have to ask. It won't have negative effect on acrylic / acetal / plexi components, right?

Oh and it says: Proven performance in aluminium, steel, cast iron, solder, copper and brass

What about Nickel?








my loop contains Nickel plated copper GPU blocks.


----------



## Costas

Not a stupid question...









The only thing it could possibly attack is some acrylics mainly due to the alcohol that is in the coolant. Glycol itself will not harm acrylic. Any metal will be safe same goes for acetal parts.

Bear in mind that in a PC loop we only use a diluted mix of the coolant so the overall content of alcohol is extremely low. Generally I haven't read of any issues when used in a typical PC loop scenario. If you place acrylic in a strong concentration of alcohol it will cause fracturing.

I myself have an acrylic component in my res (XSPC Photon - centre illuminating rod is acrylic) and it has been running for 11 months now with no hint of any problem.


----------



## Gil80

Ok, that's good to know!

I run XSPC dual res bay which is made of acrylic I believe and pump has plexi top and CPU and GPU blocks have acrylic.
My tube res.. I don't know what type of plastic.

I use the EK EVO Supremacy CPU block
2x R9 290 EK Full Nickel cover with Acetal (I believe so)
EK X3 tube res
XSPC dual bay res (acrylic?)

Thanks for all the info. If I won't have luck in the next few months with the EK coolant EVO blue premix, I'll give the car coolant a go.


----------



## Jakusonfire

Even using Automotive coolant is not a guarantee of freedom from any problems.
This thread, despite the crazed and misinformed ranting, does show what can happen when you mix two different types of car coolant that aren't meant to be.
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1740358

I also know that apparently Glycol is safe for use with Acrylic parts according to some info that has been presented elsewhere but it is also true that some of the makers of acrylic parts and tubing specifically forbid using it. So maybe there could be potential problems with other additives that are commonly included with it?


----------



## Gil80

Is it the bad EK block or the aluminium reaction with the coolant ?

What's the blame on this case?

Does EK considered to be good quality nowadays?


----------



## Jakusonfire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gil80*
> 
> Is it the bad EK block or the aluminium reaction with the coolant ?
> 
> What's the blame on this case?
> 
> Does EK considered to be good quality nowadays?


No, No. Pay no attention to what they are raving about. It has nothing to do with the block, and the block does not use any aluminium parts. They are talking nonsense. Its just a chemical reaction in the coolant.

I was hesitant to provide the link because some people have an alarming habit of believing anything they read. Its a good example of the way EK has become a scapegoat and excuse for every noob or accident though.

Its talked about here
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=1069057
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showpost.php?p=15077862&postcount=40


----------



## Ceadderman

Copper blocks don't corrode. They tarnish. I have had my Supreme HF going on 4 years now and the plates are indeed steel(perform magnet test if you don't think so)and the only issue I have had was my block was tarnished and algae growth filled the chamber pretty much all the way on the interior surface.

That was MY fault. I left my system for two years and while I did drain my loop, I left distilled in the block and didn't make sure to dry it before I left.

I dunno wut that dude is smoking but his block looks like every copper block/item made. Copper tarnishes. Ever seen old original Revereware copper bottom pans? The bottoms are ALWAYS tarnished and they're exactly that color unless yer mum uses a copper polish on them. I grew up with a quality set of em and mine usedta polish til she went back to work fulltime.

Judging by that ONE picture, dude doesn't know squat about squat an he's making much ado about nothing.









~Ceadder


----------



## Costas

Good point by Jakusonfire.... Never ever mix any coolants whether it be automotive or pc specific coolants unless specified as safe by the manufacturer.

You can never predict the outcome as you will end up with a chemical soup with who knows what properties.

If you intend on changing a loops coolant brand etc always flush system extremely thoroughly with plain distilled water to be certain that absolutely no traces of the original coolant are left in the system.

You see the same issues where people may use a silver coil then add other products as an added biocide or corrosion inhibitor only to find out that they have problems later on.


----------



## Jakusonfire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Copper blocks don't corrode. They tarnish. I have had my Supreme HF going on 4 years now and the plates are indeed steel(perform magnet test if you don't think so)and the only issue I have had was my block was tarnished and algae growth filled the chamber pretty much all the way on the interior surface.
> 
> That was MY fault. I left my system for two years and while I did drain my loop, I left distilled in the block and didn't make sure to dry it before I left.
> 
> I dunno wut that dude is smoking but his block looks like every copper block/item made. Copper tarnishes. Ever seen old original Revereware copper bottom pans? The bottoms are ALWAYS tarnished and they're exactly that color unless yer mum uses a copper polish on them. I grew up with a quality set of em and mine usedta polish til she went back to work fulltime.
> 
> Judging by that ONE picture, dude doesn't know squat about squat an he's making much ado about nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Its actually a Nickel block but the photo's aren't great and the coolant soup makes it look like copper.
But, yeah that thread is full of nonsense. Its just noobs making a mistake and blaming all around them instead of using some thought.

What's really frightening is the number of people who just back him up with support. Maybe that is to be expected in forum backwaters like that, but even in our local Australian forum it took a fair number of people agreeing to the madness before a few with common sense came along.


----------



## Ceadderman

Sounds like my teenager when she's busted.









Thanks for clearing that up.









~Ceadder


----------



## Gil80

How's the XSPC FLX Tubing Clear? Any good? is it inline with the so called Advanced LRT?

P.S. - I'm getting the ZMT tube


----------



## Bear304

Is this also a case of the plasticizer problem or did i have another problem in my waterloop?

I'm using Primochill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT - 13/10mm clear tubing, it was clear when i put in into my system but now it is pink, i have used distilled water with EK's white pastel mix in it.

The system has only been running for 3 months.



What could cause this reaction ?


----------



## Gil80

Notbreally surprising. Don't believe the marketing hype of LRT.

Plasticize occurs on certain temperatures.
It comes down to the heat that your components emitted and to ambient temps and lastly to the duration of exposure.

This issue will start if your water temp are well above 30degrees and reaching 40.


----------



## Bear304

okay, well i had a temp sensor that was reading 37*c load water temp.

But which tube is the best to get other than Primochill ?


----------



## kizwan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bear304*
> 
> Is this also a case of the plasticizer problem or did i have another problem in my waterloop?
> 
> I'm using Primochill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT - 13/10mm clear tubing, it was clear when i put in into my system but now it is pink, i have used distilled water with EK's white pastel mix in it.
> 
> The system has only been running for 3 months.
> 
> 
> 
> What could cause this reaction ?


That is not plasticizer. That is staining. I just don't know why its turn pink. How did you clean the radiator(s)? I suspect pH unbalanced.

My water temp always in the 30s Celsius minimum & when under load it can go up to 40s Celsius. I stained the tube when running distilled + blood red dye.


----------



## Bear304

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kizwan*
> 
> That is not plasticizer. That is staining. I just don't know why its turn pink. How did you clean the radiator(s)? I suspect pH unbalanced.
> 
> My water temp always in the 30s Celsius minimum & when under load it can go up to 40s Celsius. I stained the tube when running distilled + blood red dye.


I filled the radiators 3/4 up with distilled water and shuck it around, i did a few times.

Could be pH value, but i didn't add anything thing to the loop, only the EK white pastel mix which mixes to 1 L using 750 ml distilled water.


----------



## M3TAl

Turning pink with Adv LRT is weird when there was nothing red/pink in there... Usually from pH imbalance you get Green/Blue staining when using Pastel White (mine did this).


----------



## Ceadderman

My standard LRT went greenish and all I ever used was plain distilled, no dyes or additives. I believe that it's from patina of my copper block and the internal copper of my Radiator more than it is a PH imbalance. Pure distilled should not throw a PH imbalance in 6mos of use. Not saying that it can't only that it seems unlikely.









The plasticizers may have caused that, and since no tubing is 100% free of the stuff same for EKs tubing which is black, it was the reason I decided to go with hardliners for rebuilding my loop with some new components added. My system will have enough black and I needed white tubing to blend with the white accents of my mainboard.









~Ceadder


----------



## Gil80

EK is claiming that their ZMT is the best, since it's made from the same materials used in the car industry. But it's black, not transparent tube. I have it but didn't use it.
I'm still running EK primochill LRT for the 2nd time.


----------



## Ceadderman

Black is the only reason why I won't use ZMT. At least until I change/or build a new system color scheme.









~Ceadder


----------



## Bear304

Yea I beats me what have happened, but all I can do is clean everything with hot distilled water and vinegar.

I have bough EK's ZMT tubing as it would suit my ROG mobo and Define S, also got Mayhems clear premixed coolant and a silver kill coil


----------



## kizwan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bear304*
> 
> Yea I beats me what have happened, but all I can do is clean everything with hot distilled water and vinegar.
> 
> I have bough EK's ZMT tubing as it would suit my ROG mobo and Define S, also got Mayhems clear premixed coolant and a silver kill coil


@Bear304 If you have pH tester, you can check your coolant pH. I also have no idea why it's turn pink & that's definitely not plasticizer. It's pretty easy to check whether it's plasticizer or staining. Flexible tube does absorbs some water as far as I know. I have been using Pastel Blue Berry, then distilled + blood red dye & currently only distilled water. For the first two respectively, the tube yellowing a little bit but only noticeable after draining & tube stained because of the blood red dye. Water temp is 30s Celsius when idle & max out 40s Celsius when under load. NO plasticizer. Primochill Advanced LRT tube is pretty good tube. For radiator, use hot water & distilled water to clean your radiators properly. I have been following Martin's guide on flushing radiators.

https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2011/02/26/flushing-your-block-rads-clean/

Mayhems coolant already contain additives for both corrosion protection & to prevent growth. You don't need to put silver kill coil too.


----------



## Bear304

i'll use boiled water and vinegar 4-1 for the blocks and radiators, plus i'll only be reusing the the CPU and GPU blocks, the rest is either cleaned very well or new, so i hope i won't have any issues again.


----------



## kizwan

That's a bit excessive for blocks. Make sure you didn't damage the seal or o-rings or the plastic parts. I suggest flush all of the radiators whether old or new.


----------



## Gil80

I don't know how silver coil is efficient vs. Biocide. I have seen a system that was affected even though it had silver coil.
Anyway good luck.

Be careful with the hot water and wash that viniger thoroughly


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gil80*
> 
> I don't know how silver coil is efficient vs. Biocide. I have seen a system that was affected even though it had silver coil.
> Anyway good luck.
> 
> Be careful with the hot water and wash that viniger thoroughly


There have been cases where a silver coil has worked against it's purpose (I think I read about a case where it reacted very veyr badly, and this was a notice that EKWB sent out. Or at least that is what my local WC shop claims). Also you should remember that a silver kill coil is not even close to as effective as a fluid that is evenly distributed in the water, ther is no guarantee that the silver will affect all the water and to solely rely on that might be a scary thing to do.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gil80*
> 
> EK is claiming that their ZMT is the best, since it's made from the same materials used in the car industry. But it's black, not transparent tube. I have it but didn't use it.
> I'm still running EK primochill LRT for the 2nd time.


Meaning it's the same as the Tygon Norprene tubing then... Or any other fuel line tubing for cars.

That said, the ZMT tubing has the advantage in that it doesn't have any writing on it (compared to Tygon) and it comes in all the relevant sizes (compared to regualr fuel line tubing).


----------



## Bear304

Hmm maybe i should scratch the idea of adding a .999 silver killcoil to my next loop then.


----------



## toolmaker03

ok let me explain what I do.
first of all I have been water cooling my computers for 20 years and have always used antifreeze.
the mix I use is distilled water 80%, antifreeze 15%, and water wetter 5%.
I have never had any issues with algae, corrosion, or plasticization
I do have to build my loops strong enough to withstand this chemical.
today I use norprene tubing I have 3/8ID 1/2OD,3/8ID 5/8OD,and 1/4ID 3/8OD sizes.
for straight runs the thin wall tubing is fine but if I need to make any bends I need the thick wall tubing because norprene thinwall will kink very easily.
I do not buy anything EK, or Innovatek, when it comes to water cooling I have learned the hard way to stay away from anything cheap.
if you would like a list of what companies I would buy from,and there are some companies that I would only buy certain things from,as it is hard to mess some things up.
for example if I need a rotary fitting the only company that I would by a rotary fitting from is bitspower.

but If I need a T fitting XSPC, alphacool, koolance, or bitspower. will work fine as it is hard to mess up a T fitting.


----------



## Ceadderman

Nothing wrong with EK and they definitely do not fit the bill of "cheap".

The nickel issue (I use Copper only whenever possible) iirc, was a combination of mixed metals incling Silver kill coil which is .999 silver and running a biocide at the same time. It caused a chemical reaction that ate away at the nickel plate of any nickel plated block where the coolant had a chance to stagnate.

You can run your AF coolant all you want, but plasticizer comes in all forms and leeches out not due to the coolant but rather the heated coolant in the rubes that carry that heat away from the components in the loop. So if you were to run a long chain of components to a single Radiator the coolant would carry that heat further from the first component but add to the heat coming from the next in that chain and so on until it was able to be cooled. Yes the temp would stabilize the longer the loop is operational but it still be heated at the outlet side. Once the temp goes above the melting temp of the plasticizers it allows the plasticizers to leech into the coolant.

I myself would never run AF in my loop. Not because it doesn't work (it does) but because should I ever develop a leak, my child may get some on his fingers. Or my dog may think it simply tastes good. There is a reason Beneful has come under fire for intentional poisoning of dogs over the last couple of years. AF is Glycol and they use a glycol dirrititive to keep their chewy bits chewy.

So yeah...









~Ceadder


----------



## toolmaker03

Nothing wrong with EK and they definitely do not fit the bill of "cheap".

Very bad news here.
2 days ago i was playing my favorite game, when my PC shutted of completely.

After a quick search, i have found a LEAK on the EK Supremacy MX block !
the water does not leak from the fittings, but from the body of the waterblock itself.

and the rest of the post
http://www.overclock.net/t/1535931/build-log-extreme-rads-5x180-120-2x-r9-290x-lighting-on-a-silverstone-ft-02-that-fits/10#post_24461565

just one of the many reasons that I will not buy from EK


----------



## Ceadderman

I saw that in the MX review thread. But if you've read the upcoming responses there is a fourth screw under the EK medallion. I'm sure that had you checked over the block in advance you might have found it tbw and avoided the leak entirely. There is no way a block is only going to come with 3 mounting screws securing the top. It just doesn't work like that. Not saying that you *should* have known but your issue certainly doesn't make them "cheap". Not by a long shot. Heck, you yourself even admitted that you went for their cheapest option.

However there have been how many sold without issue? Your one experience is not indicative of their overall quality. You do have the right to be irritated as you are the consumer and your issue is something that shouldn't happen. But c'mon man you of all people should know that issues happen and that things like this have a habit of snowballing on the net. So please in the future keep it clean and in perspective.









EDIT: My apologies for thinking that was you that posted the initial issue in the MX thread if it wasn't. Am on my phone and have mobile setup for no avatar showing. You might see how users tend to blend together at this end.









In any case the issue could've been avoided imho.









~Ceadder


----------



## toolmaker03

that was not me Caedderman
like I said, I would never buy anything from EK.
but I can get hundreds of such links if you like this is not a uncommon issue for EK in general as a company.
i realize that you like them and that is fine its your opinion of the company and apparently you have never had a issue with there products.
i on the other hand, look at the design of products before i buy them, and i look to see what kind of issues that others may have had with a particular product before i buy it.
with that stated there are a lot of products by EK, that people have had issues with.


----------



## Ceadderman

Just a FYI for future reference. When quoting it's helpful to use quotation marks.









~Ceadder


----------



## M3TAl

All my EK blocks have been great and I will continue to look at them for future purchases. You can find horror stories for pretty much anything.


----------



## Mayhem

From some one who has now owned and bought a lot of EK blocks and gear (lost count to be honest)... well .. Nothing wrong with EK stuff and never had an issue even when the odd person has, i stress our components more than most in this whole forum with no issues. Most issues with EK are not EKs fault but user ignorance or error and the Support offered by EK is very good.. (btw no offence meant to any one)


----------



## Jakusonfire

There is one reason and one reason only that that it is easy to find cases of problems with ek hardware ..... They are by far the biggest company and sell by far the largest number of blocks and water cooling hardware.

Anyone who has had experience with gear from all of the major manufactures will tell you they are without doubt one of the highest quality manufactures with arguably the best support in the business.


----------



## Ceadderman

That's essentially my point.

*Actual scenario:

"Yay I got my EK block!









I'm gonna install it right now. Should be simple enough. Fittings go here and it mounts right up! Yes! Time to fill it up and leak test it...

(x)Hrs go by

...well nothing seems out of place and my system is calling for me so I must oblige.

Hours later








why did my system shut down? Must get it back up right now. *cursory glance* me still can't see anything so it must be okay, let's kick this pig!

Happenstance looks inside...Ack! My block is leaking! Darn you EK!"







*

1st step should *ALWAYS* be to RTFM. Regardless how boring it may be.

Although, EK should simply leave the medallion off the MX block so they can be visually inspected by the end user who can put it on as their needs suit. It's not difficult to remove but it would make things much simpler.

I'm not suggesting that this is every experience. Seasoned watercoolors should know to first inspect for tightness and adjust accordingly. But not everybody is experienced, so these things happen.

Unfortunately people read the reviews and instantly jump to the conclusion that it'sthe fault of the manufacturer and take that information and spread it around as gospel.

When reality is something more toward the scenario I am posting now give or take a step. Hades, some people simply skip the leak test entirely.









~Ceadder


----------



## Jakusonfire

That's a pretty unique case. My understanding is the blocks are leak tested at the factory so it's odd that a new block would leak but nothing is impossible in manufacturing.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jakusonfire*
> 
> That's a pretty unique case. My understanding is the blocks are leak tested at the factory so it's odd that a new block would leak but nothing is impossible in manufacturing.


Cannot disagree with this. I've seen some weird things come out of a factory that you'd think would/should never happen. From screws that are too small to crossthreaded. I saw a pump once that the lines weren't but soldered partially in place and simply pulled away from the contacts upon the slightest touch.

But had the end user taken the proper time with the block, I doubt his issue would've been that bad. At worst he would've simply requested RMA and been down a bit longer.









~Ceadder


----------



## Gil80

I use mostly EM and no issues so far the last year or so.
It's true.... Read the manual first and always test your system before turning you pc on.
I learnt a lot by some great people here.


----------



## Ceadderman

I bet if the user had a proper airgauge tester he would've found the issue existed in minutes if not seconds.









~Ceadder


----------



## Costas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I bet if the user had a proper airgauge tester he would've found the issue existed in minutes if not seconds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Exactly - However not many are aware of such a device let alone actually keep one in their watercooling tool arsenal as a mandatory WC loop test device.


----------



## Benjiw

Is Advanced LRT still the best tubing for reducing plasticizer issues?


----------



## kizwan

I have no problem with my Advanced LRT tube. My water temp go up to 40s Celsius quite regularly when gaming. I use Mayhems Pastel a year ago, then distilled+dye & currently using distilled water only. I changed most of the tubing because of the dye stain but there is a couple of tubing that I still use in my loop for two years. I still have the stained tubes. So far no plasticizer.


----------



## Benjiw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kizwan*
> 
> I have no problem with my Advanced LRT tube. My water temp go up to 40s Celsius quite regularly when gaming. I use Mayhems Pastel a year ago, then distilled+dye & currently using distilled water only. I changed most of the tubing because of the dye stain but there is a couple of tubing that I still use in my loop for two years. I still have the stained tubes. So far no plasticizer.


Got some Kid on LTT forum telling me everyone is having issues with A-LRT then provided me with 4 posts that where quite poor, one of them wasn't even about A-LRT so was wondering if it's still the go to tubing or not.


----------



## kizwan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benjiw*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kizwan*
> 
> I have no problem with my Advanced LRT tube. My water temp go up to 40s Celsius quite regularly when gaming. I use Mayhems Pastel a year ago, then distilled+dye & currently using distilled water only. I changed most of the tubing because of the dye stain but there is a couple of tubing that I still use in my loop for two years. I still have the stained tubes. So far no plasticizer.
> 
> 
> 
> Got some Kid on LTT forum telling me everyone is having issues with A-LRT then provided me with 4 posts that where quite poor, one of them wasn't even about A-LRT so was wondering if it's still the go to tubing or not.
Click to expand...

"Everyone" is a bit far fetched. If he is posting a couple years back posts, he probably confused between Pro LRT & Adv LRT. Do you have a link to that thread? I have no doubt that with certain chemical running in the loop, there will be reaction with soft tubing. It's pretty easy to identify plasticizer; creamy substance leaching & sticking on the tube inner wall. If the creamy or any stuff found somewhere else, not in the tube, then most likely it's not plasticizer.


----------



## Benjiw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kizwan*
> 
> "Everyone" is a bit far fetched. If he is posting a couple years back posts, he probably confused between Pro LRT & Adv LRT. Do you have a link to that thread? I have no doubt that with certain chemical running in the loop, there will be reaction with soft tubing. It's pretty easy to identify plasticizer; creamy substance leaching & sticking on the tube inner wall. If the creamy or any stuff found somewhere else, not in the tube, then most likely it's not plasticizer.


Its here: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/509520-water-cooling-tubes-and-fittings/


----------



## Ceadderman

Wermad had issues a few years back with ALRT. So I don't believe there are many flexible tubings that are truly free of the stuff. If you wish to avoid completely and don't care that it 9nly comes in Black, there is EKs rubber tubing offering. You won't have a single plasticizer issue with it. Or do like I am doing and just avoid it altogether with hardline tubing. Fitting cost is similar and if you don't wish to get hip deep into bending, you can use angle fittings to tie it all together.

~Ceadder


----------



## kizwan

Yeah, @wermad have issues with Pro LRT, not Advanced LRT. I'm pretty sure.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benjiw*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kizwan*
> 
> "Everyone" is a bit far fetched. If he is posting a couple years back posts, he probably confused between Pro LRT & Adv LRT. Do you have a link to that thread? I have no doubt that with certain chemical running in the loop, there will be reaction with soft tubing. It's pretty easy to identify plasticizer; creamy substance leaching & sticking on the tube inner wall. If the creamy or any stuff found somewhere else, not in the tube, then most likely it's not plasticizer.
> 
> 
> 
> Its here: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/509520-water-cooling-tubes-and-fittings/
Click to expand...

The first link, there is possibility he got Pro LRT instead. I know the post is 2014 but the tube is 1 year old. The second link is different tube entirely & the third link is from 2012, pretty sure that is Pro LRT tube. The fourth I don't know.


----------



## M3TAl

My adv LRT has been fine. Don't forget Mayhems tubing which is significantly cheaper and as with all Mayhems products it has been painstakingly tested and refined. Have 7ft of it here just haven't used it yet.


----------



## Benjiw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> My adv LRT has been fine. Don't forget Mayhems tubing which is significantly cheaper and as with all Mayhems products it has been painstakingly tested and refined. Have 7ft of it here just haven't used it yet.


I was going to buy some but the place I used didn't have it in stock so I cried a little because I genuinely love the guys over at Mayhems.


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benjiw*
> 
> I was going to buy some but the place I used didn't have it in stock so I cried a little because I genuinely love the guys over at Mayhems.


Assuming you and your shop of choice are in the UK, it shouldn't have taken long for them to re-stock. Isn't Mayhems' tubing actually manufactured in the UK too?


----------



## Benjiw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> Assuming you and your shop of choice are in the UK, it shouldn't have taken long for them to re-stock. Isn't Mayhems' tubing actually manufactured in the UK too?


Yeah probably but I have a pretty disgusting bend of tubing in my rig at the moment so just went with old faithful while waiting, I need some UV green dye soon so I'll just order directly from Mayhems when I get the chance.


----------



## Carniflex

It seems I have encountered some plasticizer as well. The loop was running car engine antifreeze (mobile system, exposed to as low as -20 C sometimes) for about 1 year. The tubing was some no-name general cheap version from aquatuning at 8/10mm size.


----------



## M3TAl

I'm staying away from Durelene now too, especially when Mayhems tubing is available at a similar price.

Currently running Adv LRT and Durelene in the same loop, the Durelene turned greenish/brown while the Adv LRT looks fine. Liquid is Mayhems X1 Blue.

PS: Yes everything is covered in massive amounts of dust.


----------



## barsh90

Which current tubing doesn't suffer from clouding problems? I'm thinking of running EK-Blood red and not sure if i should add a silver coil to seal the deal.


----------



## kizwan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barsh90*
> 
> Which current tubing doesn't suffer from clouding problems? I'm thinking of running EK-Blood red and not sure if i should add a silver coil to seal the deal.


EK-Ekoolant Blood RED already contain additives. You don't need to add silver kill coil.


----------



## xxdarkreap3rxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jakusonfire*
> 
> There is one reason and one reason only that that it is easy to find cases of problems with ek hardware ..... They are by far the biggest company and sell by far the largest number of blocks and water cooling hardware.
> 
> Anyone who has had experience with gear from all of the major manufactures will tell you they are without doubt one of the highest quality manufactures with arguably the best support in the business.


I call this the ASUS effect







Completely true though. There are Civics and Camrys out there that are lemons, it happens.


----------



## Eze2kiel

After one year and 26 days, the Saint Gobain Durelene tubing is the best of the best tubing I've proof!



The fluids we they used is the problem.

In my experience, I don't use commercial fluids.

More info: http://www.overclock.net/t/1542156/diy-prevent-entry-dirt-in-the-case#post_24682878


----------



## RX7-2nr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barsh90*
> 
> Which current tubing doesn't suffer from clouding problems? I'm thinking of running EK-Blood red and not sure if i should add a silver coil to seal the deal.


I'm using Advanced LRT with distilled water and mayhems dye. It's been over a year now and my tubing is just as clear as when I first installed it.


----------



## Benjiw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RX7-2nr*
> 
> I'm using Advanced LRT with distilled water and mayhems dye. It's been over a year now and my tubing is just as clear as when I first installed it.


I haven't been so lucky but then again my system does get quite hot so it might be a heat issue.


----------



## DaClownie

So, I remember reading about Plasticizer issues, and I'm looking to avoid that completely with my new build. Which tubings are recommended other than the EK black rubber tubes? Is there a guide somewhere on how to work with solid tubing? I've never used it and I'd like to see what I'm working with before I commit to that instead.

Thanks!


----------



## Benjiw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaClownie*
> 
> So, I remember reading about Plasticizer issues, and I'm looking to avoid that completely with my new build. Which tubings are recommended other than the EK black rubber tubes? Is there a guide somewhere on how to work with solid tubing? I've never used it and I'd like to see what I'm working with before I commit to that instead.
> 
> Thanks!


Theres loads of tutorials out there on how to do hardline tubing and of course it's plasticiser free.


----------



## ivoryg37

Does XSPC FLX tubing have any plasticizer problem that has been documented? I friend of mine gave me a box for free since he bought the wrong tubing size. I'm considering using it but don't want to run into any issues with plasticizer


----------



## saintruski

Primochill Advanced LRT or Mayhem's Ultra Clear Tubing?

I hear all this good news of Primochill Advanced LRT (including the occasional leeching), but see nothing good of the mayhems stuff, and by nothing good i mean nothing at all. It looks nice and clear, looks leech free, and flexibly.

They sounds like the best two, but i can only find results on one. I'm guessing it's a case of you can't go wrong with either but it's cheaper for Mayhems?


----------



## xxdarkreap3rxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *saintruski*
> 
> Primochill Advanced LRT or Mayhem's Ultra Clear Tubing?
> 
> I hear all this good news of Primochill Advanced LRT (including the occasional leeching), but see nothing good of the mayhems stuff, and by nothing good i mean nothing at all. It looks nice and clear, looks leech free, and flexibly.
> 
> They sounds like the best two, but i can only find results on one. I'm guessing it's a case of you can't go wrong with either but it's cheaper for Mayhems?


http://www.xtremerigs.net/2016/02/07/extreme-rigs-soft-tube-test-take-2/


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *saintruski*
> 
> Primochill Advanced LRT or Mayhem's Ultra Clear Tubing?
> 
> I hear all this good news of Primochill Advanced LRT (including the occasional leeching), but see nothing good of the mayhems stuff, and by nothing good i mean nothing at all. It looks nice and clear, looks leech free, and flexibly.
> 
> They sounds like the best two, but i can only find results on one. I'm guessing it's a case of you can't go wrong with either but it's cheaper for Mayhems?


The Mayhems Tubing probably hasn't been on the market long enough or used by enough people for their to be a large test pool. Only had my Mayhems Tubing in use for a month or so.

Swiftech seems to think Mayhems Tubing is good enough to use in some of their AIO coolers: http://www.swiftech.com/h220x2.aspx
Quote:


> A clear departure from all other AIO's: the use of maintenance free Mayhem ultra-clear tubing, providing the overall custom looks and feel of the product: now, you can clearly see that your system is liquid cooled!


----------



## Benjiw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *saintruski*
> 
> Primochill Advanced LRT or Mayhem's Ultra Clear Tubing?
> 
> I hear all this good news of Primochill Advanced LRT (including the occasional leeching), but see nothing good of the mayhems stuff, and by nothing good i mean nothing at all. It looks nice and clear, looks leech free, and flexibly.
> 
> They sounds like the best two, but i can only find results on one. I'm guessing it's a case of you can't go wrong with either but it's cheaper for Mayhems?


I'm using mayhems tubing at present and I've very happy with it. No issues so far but it's still a fresh build. I can't see anything happening with it to be honest either, I prefer how flexible it is and how soft it is, means that I don't have to have a jug of boiled water for each bit of tubing to get the compression clamp to screw on to the fitting, also my forearms don't feel like I've been watching adult films for 24 hours.


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benjiw*
> 
> I'm using mayhems tubing at present and I've very happy with it. No issues so far but it's still a fresh build. I can't see anything happening with it to be honest either, I prefer how flexible it is and how soft it is, means that I don't have to have a jug of boiled water for each bit of tubing to get the compression clamp to screw on to the fitting, also my forearms don't feel like *I've been watching adult films for 24 hours*.

















Yes


----------



## xxdarkreap3rxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benjiw*
> 
> I'm using mayhems tubing at present and I've very happy with it. No issues so far but it's still a fresh build. I can't see anything happening with it to be honest either, I prefer how flexible it is and how soft it is, means that I don't have to have a jug of boiled water for each bit of tubing to get the compression clamp to screw on to the fitting, also my forearms don't feel like I've been watching adult films for 24 hours.


Have used both. Mayhems is much softer and easier to work with (bends, cutting, etc.). Also way better pricing.


----------



## Fyrwulf

I was reading some things on here and since they relate to my professional wheel house I thought I'd chime in.

*On Antifreeze:* If you're going to use it, you may not mix one kind with another _unless_ one is specifically labeled universal. Ignore this and you're going to end up with a gelatinous slurry that will be impossible to clear from your radiators and will probably kill your pump.

*EK's ZMT Tubing*: There was a claim on here that EK's tubing is the same stuff that is used in automotive applications. That is entirely possible, however it misinforms because the unspoken implication is that it is the same type of tubing that is used in automotive cooling systems. _That is not the case._ Upper and lower radiator hoses are formed from vulcanized rubber and you aren't bending that from its preformed shape no matter how hard you try. If the automotive hose claim meets reality, I would be very hesitant to use it because most all chemically resistant tubing in automotive applications eventually breaks down physically and does so in clumps. Not only that, but the physical failures tend to be spectacular.


----------



## RnRollie

As far as i know, the ZMT is similar , if not the same as Saint-Gobains offerings (eg Norprene) and it is used in automotive / industrial like fuel and hydraulics & brake systems.

and on that: Tygon & Norprene rulez









http://www.processsystems.saint-gobain.com/tygons3-flexible-tubing.aspx


----------



## Fyrwulf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> As far as i know, the ZMT is similar , if not the same as Saint-Gobains offerings (eg Norprene) and it is used in automotive / industrial like fuel and hydraulics & brake systems.


Hoses for those use cases are reinforced rubber, there's not a whole lot to them. I've noted my concerns in that case.


----------



## s74r1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fyrwulf*
> 
> I was reading some things on here and since they relate to my professional wheel house I thought I'd chime in.
> 
> *On Antifreeze:* If you're going to use it, you may not mix one kind with another _unless_ one is specifically labeled universal. Ignore this and you're going to end up with a gelatinous slurry that will be impossible to clear from your radiators and will probably kill your pump.
> 
> *EK's ZMT Tubing*: There was a claim on here that EK's tubing is the same stuff that is used in automotive applications. That is entirely possible, however it misinforms because the unspoken implication is that it is the same type of tubing that is used in automotive cooling systems. _That is not the case._ Upper and lower radiator hoses are formed from vulcanized rubber and you aren't bending that from its preformed shape no matter how hard you try. If the automotive hose claim meets reality, I would be very hesitant to use it because most all chemically resistant tubing in automotive applications eventually breaks down physically and does so in clumps. Not only that, but the physical failures tend to be spectacular.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> As far as i know, the ZMT is similar , if not the same as Saint-Gobains offerings (eg Norprene) and it is used in automotive / industrial like fuel and hydraulics & brake systems.
> 
> and on that: Tygon & Norprene rulez
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.processsystems.saint-gobain.com/tygons3-flexible-tubing.aspx


[UPDATE: Nov 15, 2016] After experimenting with PVC based tubing again (primoflex ALRT) I'm inclined to recommend any decent non-rubber tubing for a few reasons;

Rubber tubing almost always is filthy, and can degrade over time (depending on brand) and flake off chunks of rubber, even after thorough flushes.
Rubber tubing is usually rough inside which adds some flow restriction but most importantly it gives a nice porous surface for algea and bacteria to embed itself and flourish (somehow, even with biocide).
And dust reasons, rubber tubing gets pretty ugly over time.
However, rubber tubing still has some positive points as well. if clean/smooth enough it makes a darn good seal with the right fittings - particularly clamps. It also can absorb pump vibration if using thin walled rubber tubing (I used some 3/8" x 1/2" on a few runs from the pump previously). Also extremely chemical resistant if one were to pump some aggressive cleaner (like MH Blitz P1)

But regarding PVC tubing; I'm not so sure it's as porous as some marketing claims, especially if using thicker walled stuff (3/8" x 5/8", 1/2" x 3/4" etc). I'll have to see if coolant top-offs are necessary after switching to primoflex ALRT. The smoother inner wall combined with a decent coolant should coat the insides enough to hopefully prevent break-down but time will tell, I have a few test systems running so far. There's downsides to PVC as well but it's nice to have other colors rather than rubber black (if using clear coolant).

Also, update on my previous coolant recommendation I'm now looking for alternatives for long-term usage since Mayhems doesn't seem to be releasing their "fixed" formula of XT1. Currently I'm testing Koolance LIQ-702, it's PG yes but rated for 2-3 years supposedly and comes with a nice toxic warning label







so hopefully it'll keep that green gunk in check.

[UPDATE: Aug 3rd, 2016]: Koolance and Swiftech compression fittings are VERY tight on rubber tubing, almost impossible to screw fully down. Swiftech Lok-Seal were the tightest but Koolance can get down with some force. I don't have any Bitspower compression fittings but I've heard they're also tight.

[UPDATE: Sep 2nd, 2016]: Koolance comp fittings work well with whatever Norprene tubing Swiftech uses, but way too tight for EK-ZMT. Also updated my coolant recommendation, Mayhems XT-1's biocide breaks down prematurely at high coolant temps. A new XT1 Plus should be releasing soon.

To add to these, EK ZMT is EPDM rubber not Norprene and while both can be used in industrial situations, I believe Norprene is generally superior but more expensive. Usage in cars is a MUCH more aggressive use case and probably not a good comparison, as coolant temperatures and pressure can be very extreme and cycle with seasons.

I'd like to share my own experiences with EPDM and Norprene tubing in the hopes that it might help someone;

EK's ZMT 10/16 (3/8" x 5/8") was stiff in comparison to Norprene I've used and the sizing was out of spec (thicker wall, smaller ID. 9.5mm x 15.9mm, so it's 0.4mm thicker). it was difficult to get even EK's own EK-ACF compression fittings to work with it, I ended up ruining the paint on some of the compression cuffs - but the major issue was it was gripping too much as I twisted the compression ring on, causing a lot of torsional stress on the barbs and angled fittings. Rubber tubing smaller than the fitting grips a little too well. The thicker wall also didn't bend well, despite EK's claims, causing bending stress. I wasn't comfortable with this, as stress on rotary fittings leads to leaks eventually. I'd only recommend EK ZMT if you're NOT doing short/clean tubing runs like I was. It should work fine if given enough slack, but barbs with appropriate clamps are probably the most optimal. short runs were troublesome with compression fittings.

I also had some Swiftech Norprene tubing (3/8" x 5/8") from an H240-X (and more I acquired through RMA). I am pretty sure they use Tygon's Norprene tubing albeit with one side of the OD scraped a bit to remove the writing. It was MUCH more flexible and easier to work with. seems just as durable with decent kink resistance however it doesn't get as tight of a fit. perhaps this particular tubing was out of spec in the opposite ways the ZMT was, or perhaps just more flexible - but being rubber if it's a clean cut it should vulcanize and form to the barb as long as you don't have excessive force on it.

The above comparisons were both with 3/8" x 5/8" (though EK states 9.5mm/15.9mm) but I am also using some old Swiftech 3/8" x 1/2" Norprene tubing in some tight areas - being so thin it kinks easily, which is probably why it originally came packaged with anti-kink spiral-ring thingies.

I haven't seen plasticizer with rubber tubing, but new tubing can be just as bad if pieces of rubber flake off into the loop - which is why it's very important to flush rubber tubing before use. It's also very easy for dust to get trapped inside it if not using a very clean workspace while you're working with it.

Also, my opinion on antifreeze/coolant... I highly recommend mixing a bit of EG-based concentrate such as Mayhems XT-1. It's durable and lasts forever compared to the common PG based stuff, and the few degrees in temp difference isn't worth potential corrosion. (Edit: It appears XT-1's biocide breaks down with coolant temps above roughly 36c, I found massive algae buildup after 7 months. Mayhems has a new XT1 Plus releasing soon, designed for long term usage in AIO's).
If you're worried about the thermal loss from coolants then just add more radiator or fan if you need better cooling IMO. My experience with just PT Nuke PHN alone was not good, but many people claim to run this just fine. If you're running just copper & brass with CLEAN components (radiators are a huge culprit since they can be very difficult to clean) biocide alone can potentially work fine... but it also depends how long you plan to run before a coolant change. corrosion WILL happen eventually... "coolants" just slow it down. I stay away from the dyed stuff for durability and staining reasons.

To sum this up, my advice if you're choosing rubber tubing of any type is... make sure the barb (or compression barb/cuff) fits properly. compression fittings vary GREATLY to the point that some will leak with even a little bit of stress (Phobya comp fittings fried a TITAN-X of mine) meanwhile others won't tighten down all the way. Barbs with clamps are probably the best for rubber tubing, though not so aesthetically pleasing (there's some decent looking black painted screw-type ones though, but sizing is tricky). Always wet the tubing before fitting it, as rubber can be stubborn, and use a fresh cut - re-using the same end will make the tubing loose, as rubber eventually vulcanizes (shapes itself to the barb). Some fittings with aggressive barb bites (like some Koolance nozzles) require a LOT of force and you likely won't be able to remove the tubing without slicing it. Also if you're planning short tubing runs be aware of the torsional stress some tubing can cause when tightening compression fittings, offset it with an opposite twist before fitting it and be aware of any stress it may be putting on rotary fittings. Always flush new rubber tubing, as there's always debris in it.

One other thing to consider; rubber tubing is an absolute DUST MAGNET...

I have an extensive (unorganized) picture collection on my rig here if anyone is interested in my rubber tubing runs. My case was a tight fit requiring a lot of modding and was difficult to bleed, I'm definitely adding some valves next time to aid the bleeding process as I'm STILL finding air in my radiators after months of use and lots of tilting/turning/shaking and pump bumping. And despite all my noise-proofing attempts, I'm still getting some pump vibration hum due to short tube runs in some areas but I've eliminated all other hiss/whine/chattering sounds.


----------



## DerComissar

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s74r1*
> 
> To add to these, EK ZMT is EPDM rubber not Norprene and while both can be used in industrial situations, I believe Norprene is generally superior but more expensive. Usage in cars is a MUCH more aggressive use case and probably not a good comparison, as coolant temperatures and pressure can be very extreme and cycle with seasons.
> 
> I'd like to share my own experiences with EPDM and Norprene tubing in the hopes that it might help someone;
> 
> EK's ZMT 10/16 (3/8" x 5/8") was stiff in comparison to Norprene I've used and the sizing was out of spec (thicker wall, smaller ID. 9.5mm x 15.9mm, so it's 0.4mm thicker). it was difficult to get even EK's own EK-ACF compression fittings to work with it, I ended up ruining the paint on some of the compression cuffs - but the major issue was it was gripping too much as I twisted the compression ring on, causing a lot of torsional stress on the barbs and angled fittings. Rubber tubing smaller than the fitting grips a little too well. The thicker wall also didn't bend well, despite EK's claims, causing bending stress. I wasn't comfortable with this, as stress on rotary fittings leads to leaks eventually. I'd only recommend EK ZMT if you're NOT doing short/clean tubing runs like I was. It should work fine if given enough slack, but barbs with appropriate clamps are probably the most optimal. short runs were troublesome with compression fittings.
> 
> I also had some Swiftech Norprene tubing (3/8" x 5/8") from an H240-X (and more I acquired through RMA). I am pretty sure they use Tygon's Norprene tubing albeit with one side of the OD scraped a bit to remove the writing. It was MUCH more flexible and easier to work with. seems just as durable with decent kink resistance however it doesn't get as tight of a fit. perhaps this particular tubing was out of spec in the opposite ways the ZMT was, or perhaps just more flexible - but being rubber if it's a clean cut it should vulcanize and form to the barb as long as you don't have excessive force on it.
> 
> The above comparisons were both with 3/8" x 5/8" (though EK states 9.5mm/15.9mm) but I am also using some old Swiftech 3/8" x 1/2" Norprene tubing in some tight areas - being so thin it kinks easily, which is probably why it originally came packaged with anti-kink spiral-ring thingies.
> 
> I haven't seen plasticizer with rubber tubing, but new tubing can be just as bad if pieces of rubber flake off into the loop - which is why it's very important to flush rubber tubing before use. It's also very easy for dust to get trapped inside it if not using a very clean workspace while you're working with it.
> 
> Also, my opinion on antifreeze/coolant... I highly recommend mixing a bit of EG-based concentrate such as Mayhems XT-1. It's durable and lasts forever compared to the common PG based stuff, and the few degrees in temp difference isn't worth potential corrosion. Add more radiator or fan if you need better cooling. My experience with just PT Nuke PHN alone was not good, but many people claim to run this just fine. If you're running just copper & brass with CLEAN components (radiators are a huge culprit) biocide alone can potentially work fine... but it also depends how long you plan to run before a coolant change. corrosion WILL happen eventually... "coolants" just slow it down. I stay away from the dyed stuff for durability and staining reasons.
> 
> To sum this up, my advice if you're choosing rubber tubing of any type is... make sure the barb (or compression barb/cuff) fits properly. compression fittings vary GREATLY to the point that some will leak with even a little bit of stress (Phobya comp fittings fried a TITAN-X of mine) meanwhile others won't tighten down all the way. Barbs with clamps are probably the best for rubber tubing, though not so aesthetically pleasing (there's some decent looking black painted screw-type ones though, but sizing is tricky). Always wet the tubing before fitting it, as rubber can be stubborn, and use a fresh cut - re-using the same end will make the tubing loose, as rubber eventually vulcanizes (shapes itself to the barb). Some fittings with aggressive barb bites (like some Koolance nozzles) require a LOT of force and you likely won't be able to remove the tubing without slicing it. Also if you're planning short tubing runs be aware of the torsional stress some tubing can cause when tightening compression fittings, offset it with an opposite twist before fitting it and be aware of any stress it may be putting on rotary fittings. Always flush new rubber tubing, as there's always debris in it.
> 
> One other thing to consider; rubber tubing is an absolute DUST MAGNET...
> 
> I have an extensive (unorganized) picture collection on my rig here if anyone is interested in my rubber tubing runs. My case was a tight fit requiring a lot of modding and was difficult to bleed, I'm definitely adding some valves next time to aid the bleeding process as I'm STILL finding air in my radiators after months of use and lots of tilting/turning/shaking and pump bumping. And despite all my noise-proofing attempts, I'm still getting some pump vibration hum due to short tube runs in some areas but I've eliminated all other hiss/whine/chattering sounds.





Excellent post, *s74r1*.
Made for a very good read, and I agree with the points you've mentioned, having experienced many of them myself.
Rep+


----------



## Cobra26

Has any one used Tygon Norprene or EK-ZMT for prolonged duration like a year or so? Ive been reading but i can't find any one who did and actually opened up their blocks to inspect there was one negative feedback on XS about norprene claiming it stains your blocks.

So are there people who either used Tygon Norprene or EK-ZMT for prolonged time and also opened up their blocks to see any staining or other gunk or even plasticizer which is unlikely since these rubber tubing is not pvc...feedback is welcome.


----------



## Ceadderman

You won't find and from the ZMT. It's not plastic. So no plasticizers necessary.









~Ceadder


----------



## Cobra26

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> You won't find and from the ZMT. It's not plastic. So no plasticizers necessary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Yeah its no pvc but did you verify it does not stain your blocks or any type of residue from norprene or ek zmt yor self? I rather have people who can confirm this by personal experience by opening up their blocks when they need to clean their system. But so far i have one person who had no issues but more feedback is welcome.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cobra26*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> You won't find and from the ZMT. It's not plastic. So no plasticizers necessary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah its no pvc *but did you verify it does not stain your blocks or any type of residue from norprene or ek zmt yourself*? I rather have people who can confirm this by personal experience by opening up their blocks when they need to clean their system. But so far i have one person who had no issues but more feedback is welcome.
Click to expand...

I don't have to. It's rubber based.









~Ceadder


----------



## Cobra26

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I don't have to. It's rubber based.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


You don't have to? Odd that at times when a new tubing arrives people claim all sorts of things its the new best thing then as time goes on problems...even with Primochill Advanced LTR plasticizer issues specially above a certain temprature treshold. I rather have people who actually use the tubing them selves then people without personal experience chime in and say all sorts of things. At this moment im not even talking about placticizer issues with norprene or e-zmt since they should not have it however i do want to know staining issues or other crap coming from norprene or ek-zmt and this is why its important to have people who used it for prolonged time. To make a calculated choice. Its strange reading this thread and no one has verified using norprene or ek-zmt opened up their blocks and post their findings. Thats what i am interested in. And Cheers to you as well.


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cobra26*
> 
> Yeah its no pvc but did you verify it does not stain your blocks or any type of residue from norprene or ek zmt yor self? I rather have people who can confirm this by personal experience by opening up their blocks when they need to clean their system. But so far i have one person who had no issues but more feedback is welcome.


What kind of staining did you get? Can you post pics? Or describe it in more detail? Are you sure your blocks are not just corroding? This has nothing to do with tubing by the way, copper will corrode...


----------



## Cobra26

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> What kind of staining did you get? Can you post pics? Or describe it in more detail? Are you sure your blocks are not just corroding? This has nothing to do with tubing by the way, copper will corrode...


Hi, i don't use Norprene or ek-zmt yet but i want to use it for a clean system with plain distilled or innovatek protect coolant reason why i want this tubing is no plasticizer its black which helps to prevent algae or completely removes that treat altogether. Yet i did read on XS that it stains i dont know what type of norprene the guy used. Actually it might be possible it could stain your blocks whether its copper or nickel with black residue its a possibility...ive seen no one who used it for quite some time and opened their blocks to see if its clean or not. Exception is one person who sends me a PM telling me it does not stain. I do want more feedback. I understand that copper will corrode eventually and i realize that cleaning the blocks annually is the way to go for me if there are issues with flow or temps. To clarify:

"EK ZMT EPDM type hoses. Only comes in black and looks like a thicker version of AIO rubber tubing, and is effectively the same. Norprene from Tygon is almost identical but has some different properties, and I've heard a few anecdotes of staining blocks black. Nothing so far on the EPDM version having this issue. Even Norprene does not gunk though, *just stains*."

Source:

http://www.dazmode.com/_forum/showthread.php?1291-Coolants-Usage-Discussion

Which led me to this one user on XS:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?226417-Norprene-Tubing-Annual-Review

Who had staining issues pretty bad by using norprene however this is one person only maybe it was his coolant or an unclean rad putting crap inside his loop who knows....you have relative harmless staining and the bad type of staining this is what i am trying to research on Norprene and ek-zmt over prolonged time of usage and find user feedback on it. Maybe i am being paranoid i had plasticizer issues with Masterkleer currently using primochill advanced LTR but not yet opened my blocks will do after they release Broadwell-e and pascal gtx 1070 this is going to be my new rig just trying to make a good choice IF my advanced ltr has plasticizer or not..i do suspect i have little spot of greenish hue on my reservoir might be algae...or copper oxidation from rad...

Problem is not many use Norprene or ek-zmt most use Primochill Advanced LTR or Tygon or Duralene so your bound not finding much feedback on rubber tubing...


----------



## kizwan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cobra26*
> 
> You don't have to? Odd that at times when a new tubing arrives people claim all sorts of things its the new best thing then as time goes on problems...even with Primochill Advanced LTR plasticizer issues specially above a certain temprature treshold. I rather have people who actually use the tubing them selves then people without personal experience chime in and say all sorts of things. At this moment im not even talking about placticizer issues with norprene or e-zmt since they should not have it however i do want to know staining issues or other crap coming from norprene or ek-zmt and this is why its important to have people who used it for prolonged time. To make a calculated choice. Its strange reading this thread and no one has verified using norprene or ek-zmt opened up their blocks and post their findings. Thats what i am interested in. And Cheers to you as well.


I have been using Primochill Advanced LRT tubing from 2013. I have no problem whatsoever with this tube except slightly yellowing/greening which is normal for flex tube & stained from using the red dye after that. The misconception is that PVC must have Plasticizer. This is not always true. Plasticizer is an additive in PVC to make it softer. Primochill Advanced LRT should be DEHP Free / Phthalate Free which means there should be no plasticizer problem. If this is not true, I would have a lot of plasticizer problem by now because my typical water temp when idle is >30C & when under load in high 40s Celsius due to high ambient. There was a lot of times where I ran synthetic bench without A/C which means water temp can go up to lower 50s Celsius.

As far as I know, flex tube can still break down when using with certain chemical. This have been mentioned before but I can't recall what was it. So far I have been using primochill adv LRT tube with Pastel, distilled + blood red dye, distilled only & currently R/O water. I have filtering machine that can remove salt from the water. Distilled is cheap but this is free.







So far so good but I did not check the blocks yet for corrosion.

Honestly, I don't have experience with Norprene nor EK ZMT tube. So far I have not heard anything bad with either tubes except good things. Debris or gunk in the block can come from any source but so far I have not heard such issue with either tubes. Norprene can degrades with certain chemicals too. I don't think there should be any issue if you use distilled only or any premixed/concentrated coolant in the market for water cooling. If you use distilled with biocide/corrosion inhibitor, check whether the inhibitor is compatible with Norprene/ZMT/Adv LRT tube.

*Edit: correction; Norprene, not neoprene.*


----------



## ssateneth

I use black norprene tubing. Coming up on 2 years (or is it 3?). No white film on metal or stuff linked to the tubing itself. I did have an o-ring leave a giant black stain on a GPU waterblock but that was due to choice of coolant at the time (propyelene glycol + water for subfreezing temperatures). I do not recommend compression fittings for norprene as it will slip out of the fitting, even when fully tightened. Learned the hard way. Only using barbs and clamps now.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cobra26*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I don't have to. It's rubber based.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have to? Odd that at times when a new tubing arrives people claim all sorts of things its the new best thing then as time goes on problems...even with Primochill Advanced LTR plasticizer issues specially above a certain temprature treshold. I rather have people who actually use the tubing them selves then people without personal experience chime in and say all sorts of things. At this moment im not even talking about placticizer issues with norprene or e-zmt since they should not have it however i do want to know staining issues or other crap coming from norprene or ek-zmt and this is why its important to have people who used it for prolonged time. To make a calculated choice. Its strange reading this thread and no one has verified using norprene or ek-zmt opened up their blocks and post their findings. Thats what i am interested in. And Cheers to you as well.
Click to expand...

Nope. Don't have to. It's well known that ZMT is Rubber based. In fact if you wade through this thread at least a year back, you will find posts stating such.

I've seen members suggest that ZMT is automotive grade rubber tubing. Not sure how credible the grading opinions are since automotive grade has interior braiding between two layers of vulcanized rubber. But it is a rubber based material.

So nope I think it's safe to say there is no leeching with ZMT as there is no plasticizer in rubber.

~Ceadder


----------



## Cobra26

@Kizwan, thanks for the reply i was a bit worried regarding tempratures exeeding a treshold for primochill advanced ltr when i touch my monsta rad 360 from alphacool (push and pull) its actually pretty warm including the tubing this issue i did not had with my xspc 480 rad (60mm) only pull, both where under heavy gaming sessions. And now i suspect i a little greenish hue on my res either algae or oxidation from rad. This is after 1 year. However my temps on monsta is rather good idle 27c and load 37 to 42c depending on my room temp. This is why i opt for norprene or ek-zmt no light for algae and no plasticizer since its rubber however my concern is staining and perhaps other issues with the tubing currently im leaning towards norprene for my next build. I just could be over worried and after i tear down my rig i won't see any issue with my tubing nor blocks. But yes you read good things about these rubber tubing you start noticing negative feedback when people actually have issues and start posting this is an indication it is positive or it means not many use it...

@ssateneth, thank you for the reply and much appreciate your personal feedback on the tubing i think your feedback may help other with the same questions as i have posted you give me a light at the end of the tunnel:thumb: i do like the look of norprene. I agree completely with not using compression fittings ive done my testing with actual norprene tubing bitspower fitting and a koolance fitting as well as a old school fatty barb with spring clamp. Both the bitspower and koolance compression FAILED it was easy to pull them out i can't do that with primochill advanced ltr i tried and i couldn't not without extreme force...the spring clamp on norprene works great i still have it on my tubbing after 3 years and still grips like a motha here is my testing:

http://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f137/any-one-tygon-norprene-compression-fittings-963610.html

So yeah i wont be using compression ive read some really messed up stories about norprene and compression barb and spring clamp/worm drive is the way to go, not saying compression is bad since people do use them but for peace of mind il stick with barb and spring clamp. I ordered also some 1m ek-zmt together with their 1/2 x 3/4 compression which they tell us is a perfect fit for zmt i will know soon il test them with my bitspower, koolance as well as the ek compression fitting and compare them with the barb/spring clamp the test above was done with a smaller id tubing. Il post my findings here for any one who is interested regarding the various compression fittings with ek-zmt once i have them.

@Ceadderman, thx for your contribution,

Cheers,









Wait a sec don't tell me you are Jack Black...

I know it has no plasticizer a thing a made clear in my first post i qoute my self "or even plasticizer which is unlikely since these rubber tubing is not pvc" yet you mention it 2 times already maybe you had a bit to much cheers







please read my post i specifically asked for staining and perhaps other issues with norprene and ek-zmt from personal experience which you don't have. And i did read the thread beginning at approx page 150 and searching for norprene feedback the information you provide is readily available on the net ie it has no plasticizer so no leeching less evaporation pitch black so no algae contrary to specific personal experience after long usage and its impact on blocks ie staining or other problems caused by rubber tubbing and this is what i am asking. But so far i have a couple of personal experience feedback so its positive... But if you are indeed Jack Black then you rock man cheers to you







cuz YOLO!


----------



## kizwan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cobra26*
> 
> @Kizwan, thanks for the reply i was a bit worried regarding tempratures exeeding a treshold for primochill advanced ltr when i touch my monsta rad 360 from alphacool (push and pull) its actually pretty warm including the tubing this issue i did not had with my xspc 480 rad (60mm) only pull, both where under heavy gaming sessions. And now i suspect i a little greenish hue on my res either algae or oxidation from rad. This is after 1 year. However my temps on monsta is rather good idle 27c and load 37 to 42c depending on my room temp. This is why i opt for norprene or ek-zmt no light for algae and no plasticizer since its rubber however my concern is staining and perhaps other issues with the tubing currently im leaning towards norprene for my next build. I just could be over worried and after i tear down my rig i won't see any issue with my tubing nor blocks. But yes you read good things about these rubber tubing you start noticing negative feedback when people actually have issues and start posting this is an indication it is positive or it means not many use it...


I've just realized I wrote neoprene instead of Norprene. Damn auto-spell correction.









My tubing warm too. In fact my HL Black Ice GTS 360 + SR1 120 + XSPC EX240 running hot. I can not call it warm because water at 40s Celsius do feels hot though. Majority of the heat come from the two 290s.

Norprene or EK ZMT or Primochill Adv LRT; these are the top 3 flex tube I would consider using in my loop. I hope you find the definitive answer regarding Norprene or EK ZMT from person who actually using or have experience using it.


----------



## Cobra26

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kizwan*
> 
> I've just realized I wrote neoprene instead of Norprene. Damn auto-spell correction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My tubing warm too. In fact my HL Black Ice GTS 360 + SR1 120 + XSPC EX240 running hot. I can not call it warm because water at 40s Celsius do feels hot though. Majority of the heat come from the two 290s.
> 
> Norprene or EK ZMT or Primochill Adv LRT; these are the top 3 flex tube I would consider using in my loop. I hope you find the definitive answer regarding Norprene or EK ZMT from person who actually using or have experience using it.


Thx for the reply,

Maybe there is a difference between Monsta 360 push/pull and a xspc 480 (60mm) only pull and it was not warm maybe il upgrade the rad to a Coolgate G2 480 rad.
I could find 2 people who had personal experience one of them is "ssateneth" so that's a pig plus. More feedback is always welcome.


----------



## Cobra26

Ok finally received my EK-ZMT 1/2 x 3/4 tubing and their EK compression fitting.

To compare i also have Tygon Norprene R6016 1/2 x 3/4 as well as Primochill Advanced LTR blood red 1/2 x 3/4.

Fittings used:

1-Bitspower Matt Black 19/13mm G1/4
https://www.caseking.de/en/bitspower-anschluss-1-4-zoll-auf-19-13mm-matt-black-waad-220.html

2-Koolance Black 19/13mm G1/4
http://www.aquatuning.nl/waterkoeling/aansluitingen/compressie-fittingen/1913mm/12197/koolance-19/13mm-id-1/2-od-3/4-anschraubtuelle-gerade-g1/4-black?c=11303

3-EK-ACF Fitting 19/13mm G1/4
https://www.caseking.de/en/ek-water-blocks-ek-acf-fitting-19-13mm-g1-4-elox-schwarz-waek-1028.html

4-Koolance Black Barb 1/2ID (did not used the included clamp spring that one is 5/8)
https://www.caseking.de/en/koolance-fitting-1-4-zoll-auf-id-13mm-black-wasa-034.html

5-Koolance Spring Clamp for 3/4OD tubing
https://www.caseking.de/en/koolance-schlauchschelle-federband-fuer-od-19mm-wazu-231.html

First of all there is hardly any difference between all the compression fittings used on he EK-ZMT tubing in regards of tightness i would say the EK compression as well as the Koolance compression did decently with gripping power i could still pull them out even with the EK compression which EK tells us is a "perfect companion" for ZMT....







The Bitspower has the least gripping power although its decent but compared to EK and Koolance it loses.

The EK-ZMT 1/2 x 3/4 has a thicker OD then Tygon norprene 1/2 x 3/4 and using compression on both tubing i could feel that the compression fittings had a tighter fit on EK-ZMT the difference was about 1mm

The best fitting for gripping power and tightness that i used was the Koolance barb and Koolance spring clamp see numbers 4 & 5 links it holds very well both on Norprene and EK-ZMT used the same force to try to pull it out but it stayed on its place as for the looks these spring clamps are definitely good looking.

So your best bet is using spring clamps it has the best seal of all (yet i never used barbs and spring clamps this is just impression only did not tested with actual loop) if you however want to use compression then EK compression as well as Koolance are a decent/good second choice if you do i would not use very tight bends as you could do with a spring clamp plan your loop and take into account bends ie use if you want angled fittings so as to not have to much stress on the tubing + compression.

And yeah Primochill Advanced LTR is KING with all compression fittings i used couldnt in no way pull it out using the same force i could pull out the rubber tubing from the compression fittings i applied more force to get the LTR out of the fitting even extreme force until i said f**k it i cant pull it out.

*WARNING*

With *the EK-ZMT tubing the inside was COVERED with a thin layer of "dust"* i used a cotton swap and i could remove whatever dust it was i shined a light into the tubing and all i could see was this "dust" this did not occur with the tygon norprene. So I highly recommend flushing the EK-ZMT tubing before use. Regardless of which tubing i go by il be using this tutorial for flushing your radiator with a 5 micron filter. And also to flush your tubing properly all that little dust particles or whatever it is adds up!!! and ends up in your blocks infact flush all types of tubing before use.






Hope this helps


----------



## ronzino

Is this thin layer of dust look like this ? I found this powser in the reservoird on the top of vortex deflector and at the base of the reservoir.

I am using ZMT EKWB since 6 months. All the components in the water loop are brand new



Could be possible that it is plasticizer ?


----------



## s74r1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronzino*
> 
> Is this thin layer of dust look like this ? I found this powser in the reservoird on the top of vortex deflector and at the base of the reservoir.
> 
> I am using ZMT EKWB since 6 months. All the components in the water loop are brand new
> 
> 
> 
> Could be possible that it is plasticizer ?


Are you using the polyether anticyclone foam with the reservoir? (it's known to break down)
Did you thoroughly flush/clean your radiator(s)?
What coolant are you using?


----------



## ronzino

I am not using the anticyclon foam, never used.

I am using EK-Ekoolant EVO CLEAR coolant. It is ready to use, from ekwb.

In order to thoroughly flush/clean my two radiators I filled them with demineralized water and shaked a lot. Then i removed the deminaralized water and installed.


----------



## s74r1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronzino*
> 
> I am not using the anticyclon foam, never used.
> 
> I am using EK-Ekoolant EVO CLEAR coolant. It is ready to use, from ekwb.
> 
> In order to thoroughly flush/clean my two radiators I filled them with demineralized water and shaked a lot. Then i removed the deminaralized water and installed.


Well, I don't think it's plasticizer if you're using all EK-ZMT tubing. I've used it before, it's very stiff rubber tubing.

Two possibilities come to mind:

The EK-ZMT had residual particles inside the tubing (rubber tubing really needs to be flushed before use, it's a dust/debris magnet and can have residue black particles from manufacturing.)
The EK-EKoolant EVO is somehow leaving a flaky residue (which should NOT happen. Most clear glycol coolants will leave a very thin layer of semi-transparent white stuff coated on everything but this is normal and part of the protection process, but I've never seen dusty/flaky particles like that). Could be a bad batch.
Edit: Did you mix your own EK-EKoolant EVO from concentrate? If so, what liquid did you mix it with and how pure/clean was it? Not all DI water is filtered.

Since you said all the parts were new, perhaps some still had some plastic inside from manufacturing - it's always good practice to open up CPU waterblocks and such and rinse/clean those too before use.

If I were you, I would open a support ticket over at https://ekwb.zendesk.com/ they can be very helpful, or try some EK-related forums. Some more information on every item in your loop would be useful too, and if and how you cleaned each item.

Edit2: Also, I usually consider it good practice to flush a entire loop a few times first before use. Sometimes changing coolant as early as 2-3 weeks before putting into permanent usage just for extra cleanliness.


----------



## ronzino

Thanks for your preciou advicies.

I have check, i assembled my waterloop in may, so it is 4 months !

about the hoses, i didn't flush them before use as it was not written at the time i bought on the web site (now is written, damn).
Insted I flushed the two radiators.

No my evo-coolant is not concentrate it is the 1Liter bottle. I bought this coolant premixed and ekwb, the zmt epmd hoses and nickel free waterblocks just to avoid exactly that sort of problems.
I wrote a ticket to ekwb.

Now, for sure i have to flush the loop and clean the reservoir.

Do you suggest me to disassemble the CPU and the GPU waterblock too and look inside-clean them ? I am quite scared about this operation because o-rings and gaskets (especially the GPU one) may fail after reassembly


----------



## s74r1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronzino*
> 
> Thanks for your preciou advicies.
> 
> I have check, i assembled my waterloop in may, so it is 4 months !
> 
> about the hoses, i didn't flush them before use as it was not written at the time i bought on the web site (now is written, damn).
> Insted I flushed the two radiators.
> 
> No my evo-coolant is not concentrate it is the 1Liter bottle. I bought this coolant premixed and ekwb, the zmt epmd hoses and nickel free waterblocks just to avoid exactly that sort of problems.
> I wrote a ticket to ekwb.
> 
> Now, for sure i have to flush the loop and clean the reservoir.
> 
> Do you suggest me to disassemble the CPU and the GPU waterblock too and look inside-clean them ? I am quite scared about this operation because o-rings and gaskets (especially the GPU one) may fail after reassembly


I didn't know EKWB added that to their site about flushing the tubing. I always did it after noticing how dirty the insides of rubber tubing generally is (and it's usually good practice to flush anything new anyways). If these instructions were added to the website after you purchased/assembled your loop then I would definitely ask for some free replacement coolant at least (and it never hurts to over-exaggerate how much trouble and frustration this "zero maintenance" may have caused you. you could end up with a free gift or some store credit)

RE: disassembling/cleaning entire loop:
Eh... it depends. Probably a good flush with a few liter of distilled or DI should do it, but yes there will be some leftover in hard to reach places. If it's not affecting your temps I wouldn't worry too much about it until your next upgrade cycle - then you can do a full cleaning if you wish.

Edit: RE: O-Rings: EK O-Rings (and most rubber ones in general) are good for at least a dozen or two re-uses but you could always ask them for a full set of replacements while you have a ticket open with them.

Edit2: Furthermore regarding O-Rings it depends on the fitting quality (grooves, etc) and O-Ring material quality (some can dry out over time, etc). My estimate was assuming you didn't wreck them by overtightening, but it's hard to do that nowadays the way stuff is designed; you'd probably crack or strip some acrylic or POM before damaging the O-Rings. Also another factor is installation time. Over time rubber will vulcanize but I wouldn't worry too much - I've re-used EK ittings that were screwed in pretty darn tight to radiators and they were fine. Always leak test, of course.


----------



## l187l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronzino*
> 
> Is this thin layer of dust look like this ? I found this powser in the reservoird on the top of vortex deflector and at the base of the reservoir.
> 
> I am using ZMT EKWB since 6 months. All the components in the water loop are brand new
> 
> 
> 
> Could be possible that it is plasticizer ?


did you flush your system properly when you first put it together? Looks like what mined looked like while I was flushing it for the first time. After flushing it a few times with the stuff that comes with the primochill tubing it was gone and my glass reservoir is spotless.


----------



## Benjiw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronzino*
> 
> I am not using the anticyclon foam, never used.
> 
> I am using EK-Ekoolant EVO CLEAR coolant. It is ready to use, from ekwb.
> 
> In order to thoroughly flush/clean my two radiators I filled them with demineralized water and shaked a lot. Then i removed the deminaralized water and installed.


It's either bubbles from bleeding air or dirt from your radiators, you need to flush the radiator several times to make sure it is clean, you can just let the tap run water into the inlet and let it run through the radiator for a few mins.


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## l187l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benjiw*
> 
> It's either bubbles from bleeding air or dirt from your radiators, you need to flush the radiator several times to make sure it is clean, you can just let the tap run water into the inlet and let it run through the radiator for a few mins.


I rinse it with 99% alcohol, let it sit in the rad for about 30 mins, shake it up for a few mins, pour it out, repeat, then rinse with distilled water (this is to get rid of any oils or dirt or anything that might be in the radiator, then I run it through a loop with just the res and pump with distilled water and 10-15% vinegar(or mayhems blitz). Better to do it right the first time than have to take your loop apart again...


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## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benjiw*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ronzino*
> 
> I am not using the anticyclon foam, never used.
> 
> I am using EK-Ekoolant EVO CLEAR coolant. It is ready to use, from ekwb.
> 
> In order to thoroughly flush/clean my two radiators I filled them with demineralized water and shaked a lot. Then i removed the deminaralized water and installed.
> 
> 
> 
> It's either bubbles from bleeding air or dirt from your radiators, you need to flush the radiator several times to make sure it is clean, you can just let the tap run water into the inlet and let it run through the radiator for a few mins.
Click to expand...

I would never run tap water through a loop component at all. There are all sorts of issues with tap water that could be detrimental.

Consider this, citizens of Flint had lead pipes(some still do I am sure) in their homes. Lead is known to cause corrosion in a loop.

This isn't a concern for every enthusiast, but why take the chance? Just get a 5 gallon bucket and a handful of barbs, set up your flushing loop so that there is a filter(coffee filters are cheap enough) to catch any debris using a stainless steel sieve to hold one and set up the rest to have a pickup tube in the bucket. Heat distilled water fill the bucket and the Res so as not to run the pump dry and let it run until you don't see any particles being pushed out of the return line. Viola! Clean radiator(s) and no worries of potential issues as a result of using Tap water.









If you have the funds, you can use Blitz. If not, it's not that big a deal.









~Ceadder


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## Benjiw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I would never run tap water through a loop component at all. There are all sorts of issues with tap water that could be detrimental.
> 
> Consider this, citizens of Flint had lead pipes(some still do I am sure) in their homes. Lead is known to cause corrosion in a loop.
> 
> This isn't a concern for every enthusiast, but why take the chance? Just get a 5 gallon bucket and a handful of barbs, set up your flushing loop so that there is a filter(coffee filters are cheap enough) to catch any debris using a stainless steel sieve to hold one and set up the rest to have a pickup tube in the bucket. Heat distilled water fill the bucket and the Res so as not to run the pump dry and let it run until you don't see any particles being pushed out of the return line. Viola! Clean radiator(s) and no worries of potential issues as a result of using Tap water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you have the funds, you can use Blitz. If not, it's not that big a deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


I just rinse it out with coolant after, we don't really have issues with drinking water here in the UK, I use a mixture of boiling hot water from the kettle to start, then run the tap through it, once that's done, another fill with the kettle then before installing in the loop clean out with de-ionized water.


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## s74r1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Benjiw*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ronzino*
> 
> I am not using the anticyclon foam, never used.
> 
> I am using EK-Ekoolant EVO CLEAR coolant. It is ready to use, from ekwb.
> 
> In order to thoroughly flush/clean my two radiators I filled them with demineralized water and shaked a lot. Then i removed the deminaralized water and installed.
> 
> 
> 
> It's either bubbles from bleeding air or dirt from your radiators, you need to flush the radiator several times to make sure it is clean, you can just let the tap run water into the inlet and let it run through the radiator for a few mins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would never run tap water through a loop component at all. There are all sorts of issues with tap water that could be detrimental.
> 
> Consider this, citizens of Flint had lead pipes(some still do I am sure) in their homes. Lead is known to cause corrosion in a loop.
> 
> This isn't a concern for every enthusiast, but why take the chance? Just get a 5 gallon bucket and a handful of barbs, set up your flushing loop so that there is a filter(coffee filters are cheap enough) to catch any debris using a stainless steel sieve to hold one and set up the rest to have a pickup tube in the bucket. Heat distilled water fill the bucket and the Res so as not to run the pump dry and let it run until you don't see any particles being pushed out of the return line. Viola! Clean radiator(s) and no worries of potential issues as a result of using Tap water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you have the funds, you can use Blitz. If not, it's not that big a deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
Click to expand...

Good points there, I was always uneasy about flushing with tap water - however, Mayhems for some reason recommends doing that before a Blitz. Not sure about water quality in UK vs US though, but all have contaminants.

Your proposed setup I've considered a few times but it's costly and time consuming to set up, especially if distilled isn't readily available in some locations.

Question: How would you heat up distilled without contaminating it? That would require some new pyrex pots or some sort of lab equipment to remain mostly pure.

Coincidentally, I actually have 2 rads I need to flush today. both will be Blitz'd but I'm still considering how I'll initially flush them. I do have more than enough spare pumps and hose, but only 2 gallons of distilled and 1 gallon of DI at the moment.


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## Ceadderman

Heat it on the stove in a pot like you would for pasta w/o oil and salt. Doing so will add a little contaminent. But nothing on the scale of tap water.

I realize that setting up my propose flush loop can be a little time consuming and costly. If done with barbs and two pass through with some ZMT tubing it's not really that expensive. I can get a 5gal bucket for a buck a top for another buck pass through for ~20 and barbs are cheap enough. ~$3 each. Just use your pump and the bucket is your Res. May seem to be a lot for only one loop, but everything can be repurposed for other projects if necessary.









~Ceadder


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## s74r1

off topic a bit but I decided against the extra hassle of heating water. hopefully mayhems blitz (part1) should get the junk out. black ice rads usually aren't too dirty anyways *cough*EK*cough*.

but back on plasticizer topic, I switched from norprene/EPDM tubing to some primoflex A-LRT. wanted some color anyways for the clear coolant. I think some thicker coolants like Koolance LIQ-702 are enough to coat the insides to prevent scaling and stuff. Have not had good luck with Mayhems unfortunately.

regarding rubber tubing; it comes with it's own set of problems... usually comes filthy and not smooth inside. even a few thorough flushes and you'll eventually get junk flaking over time, plus it's a dust magnet (both inside and out.

now my confusion begins over this mysterious "SysPrep"... i have a strange suspicion it's just a soap of some sort, though some have claimed it makes primoflex a bit more rigid after use. but if I do use it, now the decision I'm pondering is whether to use it before or after Mayhems Blitz part2. I think part2 is mostly just a soap as well though but what the F is so magical about this "SysPrep" ugh... must do further research and not rant off topic here, sorry (insomnia posting).

Edit: Also, forgot to get back on topic regarding the previous poster that had floating junk in res. yeah that loop needs better cleaning first, some blitz part2 or a drop or two of dish soap with distilled followed by a few flushes should get particles like that out.

Edit2: further off topic, I spilled blitz part2 on pants today lol. of course it couldn't land on my liquid/chemical resistant lab coat instead... >_>


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## Cobra26

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronzino*
> 
> Is this thin layer of dust look like this ? I found this powser in the reservoird on the top of vortex deflector and at the base of the reservoir.
> 
> I am using ZMT EKWB since 6 months. All the components in the water loop are brand new
> 
> 
> 
> Could be possible that it is plasticizer ?


I my self have been doubting to use either EK ZMT tubing or Tygon Norprene and decided to buy both i can say that the Tygon Norprene has no "dust" inside its way more clean then the EK ZMT tubing.
I was paranoid before i tear down my existing water loop consists of Primochill Advanced LTR and when i tear down my rig i opened up my water blocks inspected my fittings and all where spotless clean even after 3.5 years!!! without opening them except changing the coolant after 2.5 years. The Primochill Advanced LTR that i had been using for 3.5 years was as new not a spot of plastisizer (cut the tubing in half). So i dropped the idea of using EK-ZMT tubing all together seeing the result of my 3.5 year old Advanced LTR tubing.

As s74r1 said its best to flush not only your radiator but also your tubing. If you are still worried about EK-ZMT tubing then i would suggest getting your self Primochill Advanced LTR tubing. And a good Pre mix coolant the one you used i think needs to be annually refreshed. I was using Koolance Liq 702 clear and its the best coolant i have used it keeps your blocks clean and without oxidation for well over 3 years. It is recommended that you change Koolance coolant after 2 to 2.5 years. All my fittings were clean even the threads of my fittings had ZERO signs of discolor nor dirt nor oxidation and no chipping of paint. Maybe because i was using a full Koolance blocks and fittings and their recommended coolant.

Seeing some people had issues with radiators still releasing gunk and other crap even when they properly cleaned their rads i decided to buy a no flux radiator from Aquacomputer and im VERY happy with the result. This was before i tear down my wc rig with a Alphacool Monsta 360 had i know that my Monsta rad was spotless clean i wouldnt have bought the Aquacomputer radiator...but no regrets here.

As you suggested perhaps open up your blocks clean them if necessary and use Primochill Advanced LTR and if you really worried about radiator gunk have a look at Aquacomputer AMS radiators contrary to some reviews it cools like a beast and best of all it has no solder points nor flux but its a bit expensive. Best is to clean your rad with Mayhem blitz if that was the cause of your problem.

Hope you solve your issues its a PITA knowing you have issues while at the same time invested so much of your time and money...


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## s74r1

+1 @Cobra26

LIQ-702 is good stuff, albeit on the high side regarding PG/distilled ratio but is a great industrial grade coolant. Probably similar to stuff Asetek uses in their CLCs. But do note that if using mixed parts, warranties are generally voided (like EK I believe recommends EKoolant or Mayhems). Neither of which I've had good success with, personally.

Regarding rads, yeah AQ rads are nice if you have the space for them but I'm a fan of hardwarelabs rads due to size/performance ratios in compact builds. they are generally VERY clean (no gunk and barely a blue tinge at all even after mayhems part1 soak) and always arrive with nearly perfect fins. They're basically all I use lately, I don't trust many rad brands anymore. I'm curious though how Alphacool welds their "full copper" rads though so I've been testing one of their new fancy looking versions of the XT45. The last EK rads I tested were absolutely filthy and the cores were bent too (which they hide in their fancy looking square black outer enclosure). The aluminum sides also don't provide good support and will bend the fins near the edges. IIRC they don't pressure test them as high as other manufacturers too. I wouldn't touch them with a 10ft pole now personally after my experience with the 360PE and 120PE, I promptly returned them to the store. The majority of rads are all probably made in the same chinese factories anyhow, besides maybe HWL, AQ, and OCOOL. HWL and AQ I believe are the only two that both design *and* manufacture their rads.

Anyway, this is going more on the topic of corrosion potential rather than plasticizer. Back on topic, I still doubt the rads are the cause of floating white gunk - dirty rads would usually spit out black junk, looks more like junk from the coolant or other parts of the system not flushed properly (tubing, waterblocks, etc).


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## KCDC

Hey everyone, it's been a while since anyone has posted anything here, and I apologize in advance if this was already addressed (too many pages to go through and searching the thread didn't provide an answer):

I'm looking for an effective method to clean out any plasticizer in my rads. I've had the gunk pretty bad in three tubing swaps, and my guess is that there's still some in my rads that needs to go. I'm planning to do a full teardown with new tubing this weekend. I have two bottles of Mayhems Blitz part 1, one for each rad (two 420 rads), plenty of part two left for an initial flush after everything is back up and then this primochill sysPrep which is supposed to get rid of the plasticizer (not sure if this is true).

I know it will take a while, but I plan on doing all three. Part 1 for 12 hours in each rad, part two running through system for 6 hrs, then sysprep after for whatever time it needs. Of course, I will be flushing with DI between each step.

Can anyone tell me if this will help in clearing the rads of this crap or am I wasting my time? If not, is there a better solution? Thanks for any assistance. I wish you could break down rads to clean them well.


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## Roadrunners

Blitz part one should clean the rads out. As for the rest of your loop I would open the blocks and clean them by hand with a toothbrush. For the fittings I would use a scouring pad or something which will scrub the insides of the fittings. I found that if you just use a sponge/cloth or something soft the plasticiser would return after it dried out. I used cilit bang on my fittings and it worked a treat. Once it's all cleaned, rinse out properly and then use blitz part 2 once the loop is fully built.


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## KCDC

Thanks mate! Sounds like what I am planning.


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