# Hyper 212+ testing, Push vs Pull vs Push Pull; Also Horizontal vs Vertical positioning



## chinesethunda

There are frequent questions regarding the Hyper 212+ and whether or not push pull is worth it for the heat sink, so I did a more complete test to find out.

There are also frequent questions regarding whether or not positioning the heat sink vertically would affect performances, so I tested that too.

*Note:*
These tests are done using Prime95 at 20 minute intervals. The graphics card was not under load during the tests therefore results may vary.

Also the case used was a CM Elite 335 with the rear and front fan grills cut out.

The testing is done using a i5 760 overclocked to 3.8GHz at 1.353V using IC Diamond TIM

The wiring may seem like a mess, but it is the best I can do, all of the extra power cables are up top and there is a hole where the fan in the 5.25" bays blow cool air into the case

*Testing Results*

*All temperatures are recorded in degrees Celsius*

*Horizontal Tests*

*First run*








Push/Pull using CM 2000RPM Blademasters with a rear fan
Ambient Temperature: 23.0
CPU Temperature: 61, 59, 57, 58
Average Core Temperature: 58.75
*Temperature Over Ambient: 35.75*

*Second run*








Push/Pull using CM 2000RPM Blademasters without a rear fan
Ambient Temperature: 23.0
CPU Temperature: 59, 56, 55, 56
Average Core Temperature: 56.5
*Temperature Over Ambient: 33.5*

*For the rest of the tests, the rear fan was left off*

*Third run*








Push using 2000RPM Blademaster
Ambient Temperature: 23.2
CPU Temperature: 61, 57, 55, 59
Average Core Temperature: 58
*Temperature Over Ambient: 34.8*

*Fourth run*








Pull using 2000RPM Blademaster
Ambient Temperature: 23.3
CPU Temperature: 61, 57, 55, 58
Average Core Temperature: 57.75
*Temperature Over Ambient: 34.45*

*Fifth run*








Push/Pull using 2500RPM Sickleflows
Ambient Temperature: 22.3
CPU Temperature: 59, 57, 54, 56
Average Core Temperature: 56.5
*Temperature Over Ambient: 34.2*

*Sixth run*








Push using 2500RPM Sickleflow
Ambient Temperature: 23.5
CPU Temperature: 61, 58, 56, 58
Average Core Temperature: 58.25
*Temperature Over Ambient: 34.75*

*Seventh run*








Pull using 2500RPM Sickleflow
Ambient Temperature: 22.6
CPU Temperature: 58, 55, 54, 55
Average Core Temperature: 55.8
*Temperature Over Ambient: 33.9*

*Vertical Tests*

*Eighth run*








Push/Pull using 2000RPM Blademasters
Ambient Temperature: 22.4
CPU Temperature: 59, 56, 54, 58
Average Core Temperature: 56.75
*Temperature Over Ambient: 34.35*

*Ninth run*
I forgot the picture, but I think you get the idea
Push using 2000RPM Blademasters
Ambient Temperature: 22.2
CPU Temperature: 61, 58, 55, 58
Average Core Temperature: 58
*Temperature Over Ambient: 35.8*

*Conclusion:*
http://www.overclock.net/image/id/1599646/width/900/height/600/flags/LL

http://www.overclock.net/image/id/1599645/width/900/height/600/flags/LL

The push/pull sickleflow was best since it had the highest cfm, but the push pull blademasters are also really good. But if someone buys a brand new Hyper 212+ or a Hyper 212 Evo, I would suggest just using the one fan, as shown above it is pretty close in temperature.

As for the being horizontal or vertical, either is good but you would need ball bearing fans because when I tested it, the blademaster was vibrating audibly. However with the cooler vertical, it is best to have either a gaping hole up top or to have a faster fan than the ones on the cooler.

Questions and suggestions are welcome!

Some more results thanks to Captain Mayhem
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> been digging around for a 140 and the one that looks like it would work very well is the BGears B-blaster 2 B, unless anyone knows of a better option.
> Second test is complete.
> Methodology has changed in one aspect, and that was the measurement of ambient temperature. Instead of measuring five centimetres away from the intake fan, I took the measurement directly off the cpu fan blades, resulting in what I think is a better ambient measurement. The other change that was made was the orientation of the HDT from horizontal to VERTICAL.
> With that said, here are the results.
> Ambient: 23.4
> ============
> PUSH direction
> 
> Case panel off
> Idle:
> Core temp 1: 38.0
> Core temp 2: 38.0
> Core temp 3: 40.0
> Core temp 4: 35.0
> TOA: 14.35
> Load:
> Core temp 1: 75.0
> Core temp 2: 74.0
> Core temp 3: 70.0
> Core temp 4: 73.0
> TOA: 49.6
> 
> Case panel on
> Idle
> Core temp 1: 37.0
> Core temp 2: 36.0
> Core temp 3: 38.0
> Core temp 4: 34.0
> TOA: 12.85
> Load
> Core temp 1: 73.0
> Core temp 2: 72.0
> Core temp 3: 69.0
> Core temp 4: 71.0
> TOA: 47.85
> ==============
> PULL direction
> 
> Case panel off
> Idle
> Core temp 1: 39.0
> Core temp 2: 38.0
> Core temp 3: 40.0
> Core temp 4: 36.0
> TOA: 14.85
> Load
> Core temp 1: 75.0
> Core temp 2: 74.0
> Core temp 3: 71.0
> Core temp 4: 73.0
> TOA: 49.85
> 
> Case panel on
> Idle
> Core temp 1: 38.0
> Core temp 2: 37.0
> Core temp 3: 38.0
> Core temp 4: 34.0
> TOA: 13.35
> Load
> Core temp 1: 74.0
> Core temp 2: 73.0
> Core temp 3: 69.0
> Core temp 4: 72.0
> TOA: 48.6
> Afterthoughts: well, it's looking like the numbers are speaking for themselves, and this orientation certainly came as a suprise. After comparing both datasets, I'm starting to lean towards saying that the best orientation and direction for the hyper 212+ with side panel fans pulling in air, is VERTICAL with a PUSH configuration using a high static pressure fan such as the Blademaster.
> Can someone be so kind as to create a graph for these results?
> Next test will be with the Slipstream 1900RPM model.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> Test three has been completed. This is with the Scythe SY1225SL12SH 110.3CFM model (rated at 1900rpm)
> This time, I omitted the case open portion, as it made no discernible difference to TOA. Also, judging by the numbers from the last test, I would expect a significant drop in temperatures from vertical to horizontal orientation using this fan again. Ambient was measured at both fans and averaged out to 22.53 C, well within testing parameters.
> 
> push configuration:
> idle:
> 35
> 34
> 35.7
> 32
> avg: 34.175
> load:
> 68
> 65
> 64
> 65
> avg: 65.5
> TOA: 42.97
> 
> pull configuration
> idle:
> 35
> 33.3
> 35
> 31
> avg: 33.6
> load:
> 66.7
> 63
> 63
> 62.3
> avg: 63.75
> TOA: 41.22
> Thoughts: This further reinforces the theory that using a high CFM fan in the pull configuration/horizontal orientation works just as well, if not better than the Blademaster in the push configuration/vertical orientation, provided that the HDT fan has a supply of fresh exterior air.
> Oh, and I really like the tone the scythe gives off. quite soothing even at full RPM. I'm almost willing to go so far as to mount it permanently in this current orientation using double sided weatherstrip tape.
> Stay tuned for more results. This time, there will be a Delta TFB1212GHE involved. yes, the 220 CFM MONSTER!


Graphical results thanks to axipher
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *axipher*
> 
> Here are results and graphs:
> *From First post testing @ 3.8 GHz*
> Results:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Graph:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *From First post testing @ 4.2 GHz*
> Results:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Graph:


Also similar tests with a grill by mytoyotaco here


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## ehume

I love data. +rep

Those pull fan results are very very interesting -- quite the opposite of other heatsinks. And you had consistent results: both fans produced better cooling on pull alone than with push/pull or push alone.

Opening out the back really shows the effect of an obstacle, even at some distance. I have put my hand on the output side of fans and heard the fans slow down. Now you have shown the open back model makes a big difference.

Those 2500 rpm sickleflows have ball bearings. They also come with their own speed adjustments, so they can be toned down to almost any rpm you like. With ball bearings they can point their airflow up. Pretty good for $4.12 fans.


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## chinesethunda

they are, however without the controller they will not go above 800 rpm, and the only way to get them to max rpm is to press the 2 little prongs they have for the controller together, and then you have to have them on max. That is the only downside, I have not figured out how to get them to all be controlled. Also when i took out the back fan, I felt SO much air coming out simply from the blademaster itself


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## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> . . . when i took out the back fan, I felt SO much air coming out simply from the blademaster itself


I noticed that myself, feeling the wind on my hand inside my case, the feeling the lack of wind outside the case. The rear grill basically shut down any air getting through. Then I cut out that rear grill . . .


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## Captain Mayhem

my thoughts on why the pull works better: since the airflow is away from the heatsink instead of towards, it has the ability to work with more ambient, cooler air.


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## chinesethunda

possibly that might be why.

Also ehume, I had no rear grill but with a fan, maybe it was just because the fan was lower RPM than the blademaster or it was just a bad fan, but i didn't feel much air so I took it out


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## ehume

Would you really want a high-cfm fan on the back? Pretty noisy.


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## chinesethunda

lol, I have 4 of the 2500RPM sickleflows on my main rig, I think il pass lol. Also I have decided against selling it, as it contains most of my first rig parts, so i feel sentimental. Also cuz my roomy is a haggling cheapskate lol.

but that aside let me know if I I can do more tests


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## windfire

+rep for good and useful material.

I like to contribute to this thread by making adjustment for ambient temperature variance:-

*Some previous studies have shown that the relationship between ambient temp and average core temp is linear with a slope of approximately 1.5C. This slope of 1.5 means, for every degree change of ambient, average core temp rises by 1.5C rather than by 1C.*

*Raw data from OP is summarized below:-*

*Test Ambient T Core Temp Ave*

*1**st** 23.0 58.75*

*2**nd* * 23.0 56.5*

*3**rd** 23.2 58*

*4**th** 23.3 57.75*

*5**th** 22.3 56.5*

*6**th** 23.5 58.25*

*7**th* * 22.6 55.8*

*8**th** 22.4 56.75*

*9**th** 22.2 58.0*

*Raw data is adjusted by normalizing to the highest temp (ie 23.5C) of the set:-*

*Test Normalized Amb T Adj. Core Temp Ave* (Temp Over Amb)

*1**st** 23.5 59.5 (toa=36)*

*2**nd** 23.5 57.25 (toa=33.75)*

*3**rd** 23.5 58.45 (toa=34.95)*

*4**th** 23.5 58.05 (toa=34.55)*

*5**th** 23.5 58.3 (toa=34.8)*

*6**th** 23.5 58.25 (toa=34.75)*

*7**th** 23.5 57.15 (toa=33.65)*

*8**th** 23.5 58.4 (toa=34.9)*

*9**th** 23.5 59.95 (toa=36.45)*

*Charting the above Temperature Over Ambient:-*



*Observation*

From Tests 2, 3 and 4, the result exhibits the expected pattern:

a. Push/Pull has the lowest delta.

b. Push only and Pull only trail Push/Pull by 1.x C

c. Push only and Pull only differ by 0.5C

But from Tests 5, 6 and 7, the result is odd and unexpected. Push/Pull gives the highest delta while Pull only is the coolest.

Looking over the raw data, I wonder if the ambient temp of 23.5C for Test 6 was actually 22.5C. A mis-recording?


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## chinesethunda

No they were recorded directly and the temps were lower. But keep in mind there might be a point where too fast of a fan might not perform as well as one. Both fans were on a splitter connected to the mobo. So they are equal in speeds

Sent from my brain using my fingers


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## Matt-Matt

Nice graphs and results!
+rep!

This has been needed for a while!

But all in all it doesn't really make a difference? Your biggest fear is the rear fan/top fan being an obstacle?

This should be link'd on the Hyper 212+ page/club! (;

Goodwork!


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## chinesethunda

Pretty much, I might do this test again in a week to see if the results match still. But yeah for the most part however you want to do it it still cools about the same.


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## Captain Mayhem

I have some Gelid GC2, a couple Ultra Kaze 2000rpm and YL medium speeds on the way, plus I might be able to get that one Nidec I dug up on the way. I'll see if I can replicate your findings. ETA: unknown.

oh and, i also contacted a guy I know who runs CFD simulations, so we can see exactly what is happening with the HDT in terms of airflow.


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## chinesethunda

it would be nice to see how your results match up. lemme know how that goes


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## chinesethunda

take a look people, anything else to add?


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## ehume

I don't find that my net temps vary with ambients that range from 20c to 22c on my D14. I have less data for 19c to 23c, but I'm not seeing any patterns. I'm not sure that the dependence on ambient temps can be generalized to all heatsinks. It may be true for heatsink x, but not for heatsink y.


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## chinesethunda

not quiet sure I understand what you mean, like the ambient temp doesn't really affect the results?


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## ehume

windfire alludes to data obtained with one or more heatsinks that would indicate that the net temperature -- core temp over ambient, what I call TOA -- increases with an increasing ambient temp. So his 1.5c correction factor is that a net temp measured at an ambient of 21c would be 0.5c higher than a net temp measured at 20c on the same system.

I specifically looked for that when I did my pre-test investigations before starting on my D14 work. I didn't see any evidence for it on my test rig.

I'm not saying that the change in ambient would not affect the TOA at higher temps. I'm not saying that a correction factor of 1.1c might be there. I'm also not saying that you won't find a dependence on ambient with other heatsinks. I am saying I didn't find it.

If you have varying ambient temps, you should probably make several identical runs at ambient A, and several identical runs at ambient B, more at ambient C, etc. If you see a trend toward larger TOA's at higher ambients, then you should measure it and apply the correction factor.


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## BradleyW

Well, the general rule is; The higher the ambient temps, the higher the full load temps, given that during the testing, speed and voltage of the system is the same along with the same cooling and degree of airflow.


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## chinesethunda

well it would make sense that the higher the ambient the higher the load, however I don't know if I would say I found that trend in mine, then again I didn't do tests at those temps, I did this all in one run with my window open and cold air flowing in.


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## chinesethunda

bump


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## Captain Mayhem

dropped into the local pc place (for lack of a better term) and my GC2 won't be here til tuesday. Then I can get to testing different orientations with push or pull with just the blademaster. That'll give us a starting point at least until my yate loons and deltas get here.

Just keep in mind that if I don't update, it's par for the course around here. It's a small town and there's not a lot I can do about things.


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## chinesethunda

thats alright, try to get what you can, anythings better than nothing


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## Matt-Matt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> thats alright, try to get what you can, anythings better than nothing


Exactly! You've already done alot of testing!
Well very interesting/useful testing!

Thankyou for that by the way! It makes me feel so much better about spending $15 on an extra fan









*Sarcasm*


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## PontiacGTX

w/ a HAF 912 case you could get much better resullts than that ELITE


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## Cloudpost

thanks thunda. Good to know i should just keep my rear fan blowin! +rep


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## chinesethunda

yeah i know, but the elite was from like last year, it had been sitting in my closet for just about as long since I had upgraded to my phantom, the rig i used to test was comprised purely of parts I had laying around cept for the PSU.

@matt-matt what fan did you buy for 15? the blademasters are only 10 on newegg >_>


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## Captain Mayhem

and of course, this being a small town, almost no one seems to be on the ball here. I went in to the store to pick up what I needed, only to find out I just wasted a trip. Would they have the order in on the day they said they would? no, of course not because that would make sense.


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## chinesethunda

lol, i guess no online orders?


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## Captain Mayhem

haha no. see, i tried him out because he was local right, and I figured it would be faster that way.

nope.

Next time I need parts, I'm just going to do what i did last time, and go into the city myself. I got all the parts for the rig I'm on now, cheap and somewhat easily (think massive hiker backpack, a day to kill and strong legs/back), so I'll just do that from now on.

I've also decided on the fans that I'm going to be using throughout this test. 4x slipstream 1200rpm and a delta AFC1212D. The slipstreams will be used as part of the control (1x in, 1x out), and the blademaster, delta and slipstream 1900rpm as variables.


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## Matt-Matt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> yeah i know, but the elite was from like last year, it had been sitting in my closet for just about as long since I had upgraded to my phantom, the rig i used to test was comprised purely of parts I had laying around cept for the PSU.
> @matt-matt what fan did you buy for 15? the blademasters are only 10 on newegg >_>


I'm from Australia, fans here are actually a bit more.
Afaik the blademasters don't get imported here? I dunno, i couldn't seem to find any at the time of purchase..

My first blademasters cable was dodgy, so i replaced it with two of the same fan. these infact. I almost just bought another Hyper 212 Evo instead.. Then i'd have the newer revision of it and i'd have a single new fan + thermal paste..


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## chinesethunda

those are what come with the new 212 Evo and are weaker than the blademasters, which imo kinda dulls the fact that heat pipes are together


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## Matt-Matt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> those are what come with the new 212 Evo and are weaker than the blademasters, which imo kinda dulls the fact that heat pipes are together


Oh, but these are Red LED ones!









Doesn't bother me at all, if they aren't the best. They still keep my processor at sub 50c


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## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Would you really want a high-cfm fan on the back? Pretty noisy.


It would be fine if it could push something like 120cfm @ 30dba. *cough*Akasa140mmViper*cough*


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## Captain Mayhem

alright, preliminary results with the first fan have been compiled.

This is using the CM Blademaster on the hyper 212+ in a HORIZONTAL setting. Fan is exhausting upwards towards the PSU. The Blademaster was set to 100% for all tests using SpeedFan. The tests will be broken down into two subtypes, where the case panel is on and off.

Testing methodology will be the same unless otherwise noted. Ambient temperature was measured with a Tempgun PE1 IR Thermometer and the TIM used is Gelid GC2. Duration of the tests from start to end was approximately four hours. Load testing was done with StressCPU from [email protected] CPU is an i5 760 clocked to 4.20ghz @ 1.34v. All temperatures are measured in CELCIUS. No drafts or other air movement were involved at any point during the test.

Ambient: 23.5C

TEST 1 (Push direction)

Open Case

Idle:

Core temp 1: 37.3
Core temp 2: 37.0
Core temp 3: 38.7
Core temp 4: 34.0

Load

Core temp 1: 71.7
Core temp 2: 72.0
Core temp 3: 68.0
Core temp 4: 72.0

Closed case

Idle

Core temp 1: 37.0
Core temp 2: 37.0
Core temp 3: 38.7
Core temp 4: 34.0

Load

Core temp 1: 69.0
Core temp 2: 69.7
Core temp 3: 65.0
Core temp 4: 68.7

TEST 2 (Pull direction)

Open Case

Idle:

Core temp 1: 37.0
Core temp 2: 36.3
Core temp 3: 37.7
Core temp 4: 34.7

Load

Core temp 1: 70.0
Core temp 2: 70.0
Core temp 3: 66.0
Core temp 4: 69.0

Closed case

Idle

Core temp 1: 37.0
Core temp 2: 36.0
Core temp 3: 38.0
Core temp 4: 34.7

Load

Core temp 1: 69.0
Core temp 2: 69.7
Core temp 3: 65.3
Core temp 4: 69.0

Initial thoughts:

this seems to be reflecting the previous test that pull gives lower temperatures for push, but more testing with other fans is still needed before any final conclusions are drawn. I also noticed two anomalies, where core two had the highest idle temperature but the lowest load temperature. I'm not sure why this is, perhaps someone can shed some light onto this. And after these tests were concluded, I did notice the Blademaster dropped rpm into the sub 1000's every ten to fifteen seconds, and it dropped to ZERO rpm every ten minutes for about three seconds. It could very well be that I have a bad fan unit and as such, i'm somewhat uncomfortable using this fan in the role it's in from now on.


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## Matt-Matt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> alright, preliminary results with the first fan have been compiled.
> This is using the CM Blademaster on the hyper 212+ in a HORIZONTAL setting. Fan is exhausting upwards towards the PSU. The Blademaster was set to 100% for all tests using SpeedFan. The tests will be broken down into two subtypes, where the case panel is on and off.
> Testing methodology will be the same unless otherwise noted. Ambient temperature was measured with a Tempgun PE1 IR Thermometer and the TIM used is Gelid GC2. Duration of the tests from start to end was approximately four hours. Load testing was done with StressCPU from [email protected] CPU is an i5 760 clocked to 4.20ghz @ 1.34v. All temperatures are measured in CELCIUS. No drafts or other air movement were involved at any point during the test.
> Ambient: 23.5C
> TEST 1 (Push direction)
> Open Case
> 
> Idle:
> Core temp 1: 37.3
> Core temp 2: 37.0
> Core temp 3: 38.7
> Core temp 4: 34.0
> Load
> Core temp 1: 71.7
> Core temp 2: 72.0
> Core temp 3: 68.0
> Core temp 4: 72.0
> Closed case
> 
> Idle
> Core temp 1: 37.0
> Core temp 2: 37.0
> Core temp 3: 38.7
> Core temp 4: 34.0
> Load
> Core temp 1: 69.0
> Core temp 2: 69.7
> Core temp 3: 65.0
> Core temp 4: 68.7
> TEST 2 (Pull direction)
> Open Case
> 
> Idle:
> Core temp 1: 37.0
> Core temp 2: 36.3
> Core temp 3: 37.7
> Core temp 4: 34.7
> Load
> Core temp 1: 70.0
> Core temp 2: 70.0
> Core temp 3: 66.0
> Core temp 4: 69.0
> Closed case
> 
> Idle
> Core temp 1: 37.0
> Core temp 2: 36.0
> Core temp 3: 38.0
> Core temp 4: 34.7
> Load
> Core temp 1: 69.0
> Core temp 2: 69.7
> Core temp 3: 65.3
> Core temp 4: 69.0
> Initial thoughts:
> this seems to be reflecting the previous test that pull gives lower temperatures for push, but more testing with other fans is still needed before any final conclusions are drawn. I also noticed two anomalies, where core two had the highest idle temperature but the lowest load temperature. I'm not sure why this is, perhaps someone can shed some light onto this. And after these tests were concluded, I did notice the Blademaster dropped rpm into the sub 1000's every ten to fifteen seconds, and it dropped to ZERO rpm every ten minutes for about three seconds. It could very well be that I have a bad fan unit and as such, i'm somewhat uncomfortable using this fan in the role it's in from now on.


Nice testing!
Also as for the fan it's probably a dodgy fan cable.. Mine does that too!
I did damage mine myself, on the motherboard tray where the metal wasn't curved.. It's now a sidefan for my graphics cards


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## ehume

For data like this, give the Captain some reps.


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## chinesethunda

+rep, good data, im guessing you only have one fan, but I guess push/pull we all know only drops 2-3 degrees tops anyways, will appreciate the other fans though


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## Captain Mayhem

I just can't wait til the day I can put some slipstreams, and the delta AFC1212D PWM on.

Also have an ADDA pwm fan here that I'll throw on aswell.


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## Jcoffin1981

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> windfire alludes to data obtained with one or more heatsinks that would indicate that the net temperature -- core temp over ambient, what I call TOA -- increases with an increasing ambient temp. So his 1.5c correction factor is that a net temp measured at an ambient of 21c would be 0.5c higher than a net temp measured at 20c on the same system.


Going back to this concept, I have observed a similar phenomenon. I have several thermometers in my room monitoring the ambient (I have some heating problems, but that's besides the point). I don't unfortunately have my data recorded in neat columns like some of the other posters. My ambient floats between 16 and 21C and I fold from 12-24 hours a day. I have noticed that a rise of 4C ambient will result in about 6C CPU temp at load. This had made it difficult to gauge the performance of a cooling configuration, mount, TIM, etc. I do agree with Wildfire about the 1.5C factor based on my own personal observations. However, I can only confirm this with the Mugen 2, as I have not had my Arrow long enough.

I like to do a lot of research before purchasing a product and I have done this for my cooler as well. I'll read a roundup which test 30 coolers and show the Delta based on ambient, but the ambient temps are all different. I'm not sure that you can compare a cooler tested at 14C to a cooler tested at 26C. I am also curious if this 1.5C "correction factor" will work across a range of temps.

In the future I will try to be more systematic and diligent about accurately recording my findings so I can share with others.


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## chinesethunda

I think one way to consistently test is to do a test in a room that is rarely occupied, wait a little for temps to average out again and return to the same ambient as before, and repeat. to maintain consistent testing.


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## Deni

Good job with the tests, +1 rep from me as well.

Since you already have the data, can you try the push down setup with back vent blowing into the case? GPU temp will be also interesting if you can extract it, since the CPU fans are blowing directly onto the GPU.

Another test could be horizontal fans in reverse, and rear vent blowing in, so the cpu gets fresh air from the rear.

Deni


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## Captain Mayhem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> I think one way to consistently test is to do a test in a room that is rarely occupied, wait a little for temps to average out again and return to the same ambient as before, and repeat. to maintain consistent testing.


I would suggest in order to get the most consistent ambient temperature inside a room, you would need to block off any vents, seal all cracks and set a temperature 24 hours prior to measuring with an oil-filled heater.

Quote:


> Since you already have the data, can you try the push down setup with back vent blowing into the case? GPU temp will be also interesting if you can extract it, since the CPU fans are blowing directly onto the GPU.
> 
> Another test could be horizontal fans in reverse, and rear vent blowing in, so the cpu gets fresh air from the rear.


possibly. I'd need to create a baffle for the PSU first, to direct it's exhaust upwards and then forwards to prevent any exhaust air affecting temperatures.


----------



## LUZR4LIFE

Thanks for the testing. but if in a case with 2 top 120 or a 200 at the top, the reading will be much different (I would think).


----------



## Captain Mayhem

only if you have proper airflow from the top, front or both. Fans aren't really necessary for those locations, but ease of intake is. Otherwise, you'll have air being pulled in locations that aren't very beneficial or even counterproductive (GPU fans fighting against air being pulled in from its exhaust port).


----------



## Captain Mayhem

I just had a thought... I think i'm going to try a 140mm fan on the hyper 212+, and see how it affects the operation.


----------



## ehume

I think a 140mm fan on a 212+ is a capital idea.

And for the record, I'm not seeing any changes in TOA, whether the ambient is less than 20c or more than 22c. I mean the TOA's are within 0.1c of each other.


----------



## Captain Mayhem

been digging around for a 140 and the one that looks like it would work very well is the BGears B-blaster 2 B, unless anyone knows of a better option.

Second test is complete.

Methodology has changed in one aspect, and that was the measurement of ambient temperature. Instead of measuring five centimetres away from the intake fan, I took the measurement directly off the cpu fan blades, resulting in what I think is a better ambient measurement. The other change that was made was the orientation of the HDT from horizontal to VERTICAL.

With that said, here are the results.

Ambient: 23.4

============
PUSH direction

Case panel off

Idle:

Core temp 1: 38.0
Core temp 2: 38.0
Core temp 3: 40.0
Core temp 4: 35.0

TOA: 14.35

Load:

Core temp 1: 75.0
Core temp 2: 74.0
Core temp 3: 70.0
Core temp 4: 73.0

TOA: 49.6

Case panel on

Idle

Core temp 1: 37.0
Core temp 2: 36.0
Core temp 3: 38.0
Core temp 4: 34.0

TOA: 12.85

Load

Core temp 1: 73.0
Core temp 2: 72.0
Core temp 3: 69.0
Core temp 4: 71.0

TOA: 47.85

==============
PULL direction

Case panel off

Idle

Core temp 1: 39.0
Core temp 2: 38.0
Core temp 3: 40.0
Core temp 4: 36.0

TOA: 14.85

Load

Core temp 1: 75.0
Core temp 2: 74.0
Core temp 3: 71.0
Core temp 4: 73.0

TOA: 49.85

Case panel on

Idle

Core temp 1: 38.0
Core temp 2: 37.0
Core temp 3: 38.0
Core temp 4: 34.0

TOA: 13.35

Load

Core temp 1: 74.0
Core temp 2: 73.0
Core temp 3: 69.0
Core temp 4: 72.0

TOA: 48.6

Afterthoughts: well, it's looking like the numbers are speaking for themselves, and this orientation certainly came as a suprise. After comparing both datasets, I'm starting to lean towards saying that the best orientation and direction for the hyper 212+ with side panel fans pulling in air, is VERTICAL with a PUSH configuration using a high static pressure fan such as the Blademaster.

Can someone be so kind as to create a graph for these results?

Next test will be with the Slipstream 1900RPM model.


----------



## chinesethunda

im guessing vertical as in it blows front to back or down to up? I have a scythe slipstream 140mm that I am not using, I could probably hook it up and see how it performs.


----------



## Scuba Steve in VA

First off, fantastic post. Reps to you!

That said, my view of all of this (as an admitted noob) is that the testing shows that there isn't a heck of a difference no matter what you do. Is a 2 or 3 degree variance really worth caring about? I suppose if one is really trying to milk every last bit of performance out of their CPU, it may be, but for a mild overclocker, it seems like almost any config is fairly decent...unless I am missing something.

BTW, I am fairly close to buying the 212 Evo and have been considering adding a second fan, so this data is awesome. Thanks again.


----------



## chinesethunda

well that was kind of the point in my thread, it was to show if there was much of a difference as people always debating whether or not a certain orientation was the best, but keep in mind each case is different, the case i tested with had a top psu, bottom psus might be different. but for the most part I know that having a pull fan or a push pull with no rear grill is the way to go overall


----------



## Scuba Steve in VA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> well that was kind of the point in my thread, it was to show if there was much of a difference as people always debating whether or not a certain orientation was the best, but keep in mind each case is different, the case i tested with had a top psu, bottom psus might be different. but for the most part I know that having a pull fan or a push pull with no rear grill is the way to go overall


Excellent. Just checking to see if I missed the point.









Thanks again!


----------



## Matt-Matt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scuba Steve in VA*
> 
> First off, fantastic post. Reps to you!
> That said, my view of all of this (as an admitted noob) is that the testing shows that there isn't a heck of a difference no matter what you do. Is a 2 or 3 degree variance really worth caring about? I suppose if one is really trying to milk every last bit of performance out of their CPU, it may be, but for a mild overclocker, it seems like almost any config is fairly decent...unless I am missing something.
> BTW, I am fairly close to buying the 212 Evo and have been considering adding a second fan, so this data is awesome. Thanks again.


Go for the 212+ if you can grab it from newegg!








It's better! Also if you're wanting a decent overclock on the 2600k maybe you'd be better off with a Thermalright Macho or similar?


----------



## chinesethunda

i used the 212+ as the testing cooler, it works pretty much however you put it


----------



## Captain Mayhem

sorry for the lack of updates on my part. i've been busy with work, errands, etc. i should be able to do something on the weekend. I hope.


----------



## chinesethunda

thats okay, take your time lol


----------



## Captain Mayhem

went to do the test today, but ambients were too unstable for any consistent readings. I'll try again tomorrow.


----------



## chinesethunda

awesome, looking forward to the tests


----------



## Scuba Steve in VA

I find it interesting that push/pull with a rear fan (three fans in the loop total) did so poorly. I assume that the rear fan is restricting airflow in this configuration. Of course, these results seem very dependent on fan model and RPM. For example, if I had push/pull on fairly low RPM and a rear exhaust fan on fairly high RPM, would the results indicate that the rear fan actually helps?

At the moment, I have push and a rear fan. I was planning on adding a pull...to ensure that I can keep the EVO fans running fairly slowly (900 or so RPM)...to keep noise down. My case fans are fairly quiet so I run them full speed...and I have the standard rear and top-rear mounted Fractal Design config. I suppose that I should grab some measurements...but you guys set a high bar for testing.


----------



## chinesethunda

push with rear fan should do decent, i wouldn't advise a push pull with a rear fan because the pull fan would clash with the rear fan, push/pull with no rear grill or rear fan or a push with rear fan would be my suggestion, or pull with no rear grill or rear fan


----------



## Captain Mayhem

Test three has been completed. This is with the Scythe SY1225SL12SH 110.3CFM model (rated at 1900rpm)

This time, I omitted the case open portion, as it made no discernible difference to TOA. Also, judging by the numbers from the last test, I would expect a significant drop in temperatures from vertical to horizontal orientation using this fan again. Ambient was measured at both fans and averaged out to 22.53 C, well within testing parameters.

push configuration:

idle:

35
34
35.7
32

avg: 34.175

load:

68
65
64
65
avg: 65.5

TOA: 42.97

pull configuration

idle:

35
33.3
35
31

avg: 33.6

load:
66.7
63
63
62.3

avg: 63.75

TOA: 41.22

Thoughts: This further reinforces the theory that using a high CFM fan in the pull configuration/horizontal orientation works just as well, if not better than the Blademaster in the push configuration/vertical orientation, provided that the HDT fan has a supply of fresh exterior air.

Oh, and I really like the tone the scythe gives off. quite soothing even at full RPM. I'm almost willing to go so far as to mount it permanently in this current orientation using double sided weatherstrip tape.

Stay tuned for more results. This time, there will be a Delta TFB1212GHE involved. yes, the 220 CFM MONSTER!


----------



## Captain Mayhem

Quote:


> push with rear fan should do decent, i wouldn't advise a push pull with a rear fan because the pull fan would clash with the rear fan, push/pull with no rear grill or rear fan or a push with rear fan would be my suggestion, or pull with no rear grill or rear fan


If i may make a suggestion, I think a better option would be to check both intake/exhaust fans (assuming this is his configuration) and make sure they both produce a higher amount of CFM through the case than what the push/pull setup on the hyper 212+ provide. This would create the effect of pulling air around the HDT faster than the fans are pulling through the fan. This could also cause a secondary effect where the two fans on the 212+ spin a little faster than they would in still or slower moving air, so don't be alarmed if it happens.


----------



## chinesethunda

this would be a good idea, however, having a rear fan faster than the 212+ fans, which normally are the blademasters, which already spin at 2k rpm would make the case really loud, so performance wise it might help a little, but I don't think it would be worth the extra noise it creates, also if you don't mind I will quote your efforts in the first thread?


----------



## axipher

I'm weeding through the results now and I'll compole them in to excel and bang out a quick graph, I have a little down time at work today.


----------



## chinesethunda

Ok looking forward to it

Sent from my brain using my fingers


----------



## axipher

Here are results and graphs:

*From First post testing @ 3.8 GHz*

Results:









Graph:









*From First post testing @ 4.2 GHz*

Results:









Graph:


----------



## conwa

I dont got a full review, but i would like to share this:

Im using a CM elite case (not the best airflow i know) with a simple 120mm intake AND exhaust on the back.

My 2500k OC is 4,3Ghz and i got minus 3 degrees with push/pull (+ exhaust fan) compared to my push config (+exhaust fan) @ full load.

The temp in my room was the same, as i did the tests within an hour. My 212 + got STOCK fans.


----------



## Captain Mayhem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> also if you don't mind I will quote your efforts in the first thread?


nah, go for it. It's what it's here for.


----------



## chinesethunda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *conwa*
> 
> I dont got a full review, but i would like to share this:
> Im using a CM elite case (not the best airflow i know) with a simple 120mm intake AND exhaust on the back.
> My 2500k OC is 4,3Ghz and i got minus 3 degrees with push/pull (+ exhaust fan) compared to my push config (+exhaust fan) @ full load.
> The temp in my room was the same, as i did the tests within an hour. My 212 + got STOCK fans.


if you cut out the back rear grill, and you use push pull, you would get lower temps. push/pull will do lower temps most of the time, but if you don't have the rear fan I believe not only will you lower the noise, but you will also increase your performance


----------



## conwa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> if you cut out the back rear grill, and you use push pull, you would get lower temps. push/pull will do lower temps most of the time, but if you don't have the rear fan I believe not only will you lower the noise, but you will also increase your performance


On friday im getting my 4 sickleflow fans i ordered.
I will do some testing with and without exhaust fan and post the results here!


----------



## axipher

I'm curious to see how the results for Push, Pull, Push/Pull would change if you sealed the area around the fan and heat sink so you have no air escaping, and all air has to pass through the fin array.


----------



## chinesethunda

I thought about that but was wondering how to go about sealing it

Sent from my brain using my fingers


----------



## axipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> I thought about that but was wondering how to go about sealing it
> 
> Sent from my brain using my fingers


Good old Silver Duct Tape would do fine.


----------



## chinesethunda

I know that, but I mean how would you seal the bottom? It's pretty much impossible to have the fan on the cooler before you mount it, and my fingers are too big to reach around to the bottom to put it on lol


----------



## axipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> I know that, but I mean how would you seal the bottom? It's pretty much impossible to have the fan on the cooler before you mount it, and my fingers are too big to reach around to the bottom to put it on lol


Cut a piece, and kind of just slip it under the fan, so you wouldn't have one continuous piece.


----------



## chinesethunda

hmm, possible, I might try it later on when I have some time


----------



## axipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> hmm, possible, I might try it later on when I have some time


No rush, and are you happy with those graphs?


----------



## Thanos1972

You can take a simple black electrical tape and put it there piece by piece to seal it.I wan to ask.currently have the blademaster for push at 1500rpms and of these for pull at 1500 rpms.Question.i have 2 140mm fans from thermaltake psus.can i put them on the hyper some way?or not worth it?they run at 2000rpms.
i believe they are the same as yate loons.


----------



## ihatelolcats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *axipher*
> 
> I'm curious to see how the results for Push, Pull, Push/Pull would change if you sealed the area around the fan and heat sink so you have no air escaping, and all air has to pass through the fin array.


i've tried this on my Xigmatek and found no noticeable difference. but i would like to see the result in comparison with all these other test configurations


----------



## chinesethunda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *axipher*
> 
> No rush, and are you happy with those graphs?


the graphs were great, thanks for doing them, I put them in the first post so people can have a comparison
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thanos1972*
> 
> You can take a simple black electrical tape and put it there piece by piece to seal it.I wan to ask.currently have the blademaster for push at 1500rpms and of these for pull at 1500 rpms.Question.i have 2 140mm fans from thermaltake psus.can i put them on the hyper some way?or not worth it?they run at 2000rpms.
> i believe they are the same as yate loons.


the xigmatek should be okay, but honestly the single blademaster at full speed would probably outperform your push pull at 1500 rpm. Also you can try the 140mm fans, they might work better, i don't know, but you can rig it using zip ties though


----------



## axipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *axipher*
> 
> No rush, and are you happy with those graphs?
> 
> 
> 
> the graphs were great, thanks for doing them, I put them in the first post so people can have a comparison
Click to expand...

Sweet









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Thanos1972*
> 
> You can take a simple black electrical tape and put it there piece by piece to seal it.I wan to ask.currently have the blademaster for push at 1500rpms and of these for pull at 1500 rpms.Question.i have 2 140mm fans from thermaltake psus.can i put them on the hyper some way?or not worth it?they run at 2000rpms.
> i believe they are the same as yate loons.
> 
> 
> 
> the xigmatek should be okay, but honestly the single blademaster at full speed would probably outperform your push pull at 1500 rpm. Also you can try the 140mm fans, they might work better, i don't know, but you can rig it using zip ties though
Click to expand...

Agreed, Push/Pull setups pretty much require both fans to be the same and running at the same RPM.


----------



## Thanos1972

Both fans are running at the same speed.always 1500 rpms with fan profil.I did this cause the air from push blademaster already loses some of it pressure when it passes through the fins so the 1500 helps a bit.will try though the 140mm and post again.


----------



## Captain Mayhem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> I thought about that but was wondering how to go about sealing it
> Sent from my brain using my fingers


double sided weatherstrip tape.


----------



## chinesethunda

its not what kind of tape to use, its how do I put it on the underside where I only have a cm or 2 from the mobo to the cooler?


----------



## Captain Mayhem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> its not what kind of tape to use, its how do I put it on the underside where I only have a cm or 2 from the mobo to the cooler?


it's a little tricky, but it can be done. What you would do is make a loop on the heatsink, and once you have your length, cut to fit. Take off one plastic strip to expose the adhesive, and press onto the 212+. Mount the cooler, then once you're satisfied with how it looks, remove the other plastic strip and stick the fan on.

I hope I explained this well. If not, i'll put on some tape on mine and take a few pics of the process.


----------



## chinesethunda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> it's a little tricky, but it can be done. What you would do is make a loop on the heatsink, and once you have your length, cut to fit. Take off one plastic strip to expose the adhesive, and press onto the 212+. Mount the cooler, then once you're satisfied with how it looks, remove the other plastic strip and stick the fan on.
> I hope I explained this well. If not, i'll put on some tape on mine and take a few pics of the process.


lol you have me so confused, but then again im too tired lol, someone try this and post some results? il test this when i have some time


----------



## liljoey112

What about Pull/Pull or Push/Push For fan ordering?


----------



## chinesethunda

I don't think either of them are good ideas, push push will give you really bad temps, pull pull in a small case is also just as bad, not to mention hot air just goes everywhere


----------



## liljoey112

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> I don't think either of them are good ideas, push push will give you really bad temps, pull pull in a small case is also just as bad, not to mention hot air just goes everywhere


It will never hurt to try would it? I would but i have the sunbeam twister in a open Bench


----------



## chinesethunda

hmm, after my tests and stuff I might try this out, gives me a chance to rearrange my cables too lol


----------



## Captain Mayhem

Next test completed. Same Scythe fan, HDT in a vertical orientation.

push direction

idle:

38
38
39
35

avg: 37.5

load:

76
75.7
70.7
74

avg: 74.1

TOA: 51

pull direction

Idle:

38.7
38
37
34.7

avg: 37.1

Load:

74.3
75
70
73.7

avg: 73.25

TOA: 50.15

Thoughts: What was once a hypothesis has now been confirmed as a fact. This HDT, performs much better when oriented in a horizontal position (airflow going upwards) and with a high CFM fan in the pull configuration. I believe it all comes down to the heatpipes themselves and the laminar airflow through the fins If the heatpipes are below the CPU, the working fluid ends up fighting gravity leading to higher temperatures.

So there you have it. Any other tests will be simply gravy on this nice little thanksgiving dinner.

ok guys, here's what I mean by the double sided tape trick...

Measuring out...



create the loop...



pressed onto the HDT...


----------



## axipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> Next test completed. Same Scythe fan, HDT in a vertical orientation.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Results
> 
> 
> 
> push direction
> 
> idle:
> 
> 38
> 38
> 39
> 35
> 
> avg: 37.5
> 
> load:
> 
> 76
> 75.7
> 70.7
> 74
> 
> avg: 74.1
> 
> TOA: 51
> 
> pull direction
> 
> Idle:
> 
> 38.7
> 38
> 37
> 34.7
> 
> avg: 37.1
> 
> Load:
> 
> 74.3
> 75
> 70
> 73.7
> 
> avg: 73.25
> 
> TOA: 50.15
> 
> 
> 
> Thoughts: What was once a hypothesis has now been confirmed as a fact. This HDT, performs much better when oriented in a horizontal position (airflow going upwards) and with a high CFM fan in the pull configuration. I believe it all comes down to the heatpipes themselves and the laminar airflow through the fins If the heatpipes are below the CPU, the working fluid ends up fighting gravity leading to higher temperatures.
> 
> So there you have it. Any other tests will be simply gravy on this nice little thanksgiving dinner.
> 
> ok guys, here's what I mean by the double sided tape trick...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Pictures
> 
> 
> 
> Measuring out...
> 
> 
> 
> create the loop...
> 
> 
> 
> pressed onto the HDT...


I'm wondering what happened with the results here. Temperatures really jumped compared to the other Scythe fan results. Are the results from this post with the tape on and airflow going horizontal? The picture looks like the thick tape is covering a good 1/4" - 1/2" of the heatsink on each side. Just curious if this is really throwing off the results, or if you increased your voltage or clock speed from the last 4.2 GHz settings you had.

Here's the updated graph


----------



## Captain Mayhem

the only thing that changed during the test was the orientation of the HDT. the tape was only added AFTER the data was compiled. I even tried to place a 120mm fan below the dvd drive to see if the results changed any. It came back with a negligible result (~0.5c difference)

I had to test twice to confirm what I was seeing. it really was that much of a difference.


----------



## chinesethunda

how was the tape results? not sure if I can find where you posted that


----------



## Gnator

Great post!! Thank you for the awesome data. I am wondering, I have HAF 912, with the default case fans that came with it on the top exhaust. If were to have my 212+ placed vertical with the default blade master that comes with the 912 in pull config will the weaker default case fan on the top exhaust worsen the temp?


----------



## Captain Mayhem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> how was the tape results? not sure if I can find where you posted that


Tape results were within 1C of previous results.

The biggest benefit of mounting it with double sided tape is the vibration absorption.


----------



## chinesethunda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gnator*
> 
> Great post!! Thank you for the awesome data. I am wondering, I have HAF 912, with the default case fans that came with it on the top exhaust. If were to have my 212+ placed vertical with the default blade master that comes with the 912 in pull config will the weaker default case fan on the top exhaust worsen the temp?


Probably, especially if the top fan is close to the fan of the 212+
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> Tape results were within 1C of previous results.
> The biggest benefit of mounting it with double sided tape is the vibration absorption.


hmm interesting, I don't have double sided tape, what, if you taped out the sides of the cooler also?


----------



## Captain Mayhem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> hmm interesting, I don't have double sided tape, what, if you taped out the sides of the cooler also?


sort of like.. this?

  

also, doing it like this makes it 140mm fan ready.


----------



## chinesethunda

yeah just like that, not sure how you would mount your fans though lol


----------



## Captain Mayhem

well, there are two ways. One is the ziptie trick, the other is where I pull off the paper backing that protects the adhesive.

One thing I discovered with the Delta earlier today is it pulls so much air, it ends up looping from the exhaust right back into the intake. It might actually come down to a PSU relocation if i want to see what it can do.


----------



## chinesethunda

I was thinking that before, I didn't mention it because I thought you were testing, why not rotate it?


----------



## Captain Mayhem

yeah I probably will. I might need to make an exhaust duct for it aswell.


----------



## chinesethunda

if you cut out your rear grill, you wouldn't need the fan in the back, and your push pull would be much more effective


----------



## AshutoshM

Hey! Guys.
I have a CM Elite 430 cabinet and I'm currently running my stock cooler. I am planning to purchase CM Hyper 212+ cooler. I want to ask you that will I be able to mount all the fans i.e. top two fans and one rear fan in my Elite 430 after installing this big Hyper 212+ cooler? I want to install it in horizontal position with one fan in push/pull condition.

Also, I have currently four fans installed in my system i.e. front 120mm, side panel 120mm, rear 120mm and top front 120mm. I also wanted to install one 120mm fan at top rear but my stock cooler is so high that it doesn't allow me to do so.
So, now I'm planning to buy two more 120mm fans, one for top rear as I think after installing hyper 212+ I will be able to mount both top fans; and another fan for Hyper 212+ to run it in dual mode.
My question is that should I purchase another fan for Hyper 212+ or should I run it with single fan only as I didn't see much difference between dual and single config. in the test mentioned here.


----------



## chinesethunda

you should be able to, but I think just having a intake fan at the top front fan would be good, you might be able to have a rear exhaust but idk if it will help


----------



## AshutoshM

Yeah! exactly, I'm currently having top front fan installed which intakes the air an another at rear as exhaust. I want now for top rear and for hyper 212+ but after seeing that it doesn't help much using two fans in 212+, my only concern is top rear one.

So, you mean to say that I should drop the idea of purchasing two fans, instead I should go for one only???


----------



## axipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AshutoshM*
> 
> Hey! Guys.
> I have a CM Elite 430 cabinet and I'm currently running my stock cooler. I am planning to purchase CM Hyper 212+ cooler. I want to ask you that will I be able to mount all the fans i.e. top two fans and one rear fan in my Elite 430 after installing this big Hyper 212+ cooler? I want to install it in horizontal position with one fan in push/pull condition.
> 
> Also, I have currently four fans installed in my system i.e. front 120mm, side panel 120mm, rear 120mm and top front 120mm. I also wanted to install one 120mm fan at top rear but my stock cooler is so high that it doesn't allow me to do so.
> So, now I'm planning to buy two more 120mm fans, one for top rear as I think after installing hyper 212+ I will be able to mount both top fans; and another fan for Hyper 212+ to run it in dual mode.
> My question is that should I purchase another fan for Hyper 212+ or should I run it with single fan only as I didn't see much difference between dual and single config. in the test mentioned here.


Yes you can, I'm running the same case with a 212+. I have the version with the side plexi window panel and I have:

- Front fan
- Side fan
- Rear fan
- 2x Top fan
- Push/Pull on 212+

The only thing I had to do was install some 1 cm spacers between the side fan and the side panel. When the fan is mounted directly to side panel, there is a very annoying sound produced by the plexi slots.


----------



## chinesethunda

yes, 2 fans and 1 fan is just the difference of 1-2 degrees C, as demonstrated by my first post in the thread


----------



## AshutoshM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *axipher*
> 
> Yes you can, I'm running the same case with a 212+. I have the version with the side plexi window panel and I have:
> - Front fan
> - Side fan
> - Rear fan
> - 2x Top fan
> - Push/Pull on 212+
> The only thing I had to do was install some 1 cm spacers between the side fan and the side panel. When the fan is mounted directly to side panel, there is a very annoying sound produced by the plexi slots.


As you said that you have your fans mounted in 430 elite, I want to know that whether you have provided some space between top two fans (approx 1cm gap) and the mounting grill? Because, if you do not provide some clearance between fans and the mounting grill, they will spin inefficiently, slow and will not be able to move the air properly.

Another thing I want to ask you is that you have mentioned above, you are using push/pull on 212+ with rear fan. In posts mentioned on page 1 of this thread, they say that if you remove the rear fan, you will get more temperature drops!!! Idk why removing one fan will drop the temperature more. Haven't you thought about that?

*Also, do you have your 212+ installed vertically or horizontally???*

One more thing I wanted to know is that as many are saying that due to some gap between heat pipes which have direct contact with the CPU, some heat is trapped there which reduces cooling. Is there any way to cope with this issue without having to buy 212 evo?? Can't we fill up those gaps with thermal compound making sure that we do not make a thick layer of compound between cpu and heat pipes coz that will poorly reduce cooling.


----------



## axipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AshutoshM*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *axipher*
> 
> Yes you can, I'm running the same case with a 212+. I have the version with the side plexi window panel and I have:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> - Front fan
> - Side fan
> - Rear fan
> - 2x Top fan
> - Push/Pull on 212+
> The only thing I had to do was install some 1 cm spacers between the side fan and the side panel. When the fan is mounted directly to side panel, there is a very annoying sound produced by the plexi slots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you said that you have your fans mounted in 430 elite, I want to know that whether you have provided some space between top two fans (approx 1cm gap) and the mounting grill? Because, if you do not provide some clearance between fans and the mounting grill, they will spin inefficiently, slow and will not be able to move the air properly.
> 
> Another thing I want to ask you is that you have mentioned above, you are using push/pull on 212+ with rear fan. In posts mentioned on page 1 of this thread, they say that if you remove the rear fan, you will get more temperature drops!!! Idk why removing one fan will drop the temperature more. Haven't you thought about that?
> 
> *Also, do you have your 212+ installed vertically or horizontally???*
> 
> One more thing I wanted to know is that as many are saying that due to some gap between heat pipes which have direct contact with the CPU, some heat is trapped there which reduces cooling. Is there any way to cope with this issue without having to buy 212 evo?? Can't we fill up those gaps with thermal compound making sure that we do not make a thick layer of compound between cpu and heat pipes coz that will poorly reduce cooling.
Click to expand...

I have my top fans mounted directly to the case as exhaust. Because the top fans are pushing air directly against the case, and the case it metal, you won;t see a real difference at all. As for the side panel, because it is plexi and the slots are so long, when you have the side fan as a pull fan, it creates a almost "buzzing" sound unless you add a little spacing as I did.

As for my 212+, I have it mounted vertically so that the air is flowing through it horizontally from front to back. Because my GPU is folding 24/7 and is in my top slot, the 212+ ends up sucking the hot air off the back of the card which gives me much worse temps then having the 212+ suck fresh air from the front of the case.

I didn't remove my rear fan mainly because my GPU cooler exhausts hot air in to the case rather then out the back, so I need as much exhaust on my case as I can get. The couple degree difference the original post noted with taking off the back panel isn't enough to counter the cooler overall case temps achieved with the extra exhaust fan.

In regards to the space under the CPU cooler that is open, you shouldn't have to worry too much if you have an exhaust fan on the rear of the case, or the 212+ mounted so that airflow flows over your VRM area. If VRM temps are becoming an issue, you could do what I did in my Sig Rig and install a memory cooler on the VRM heat sink.


----------



## AshutoshM

@ axipher, I will do the same as you have done. Instead of buying two new fan I'll now only buy one instead as in order to use 212+ with dual fans I already have a 90mm fan that is a very high rpm (4600rpm) fan. I think I will be able to mount this 90mm fan on 212+ without a problem. Also, as there will be now two different rpm fans i.e. 2000rpm (one that comes with 212+) and one which I have (4500rpm, but I will be running it at around 3000rpm coz it is very loud at 4500rpm). So, how should I mount these two fans i.e. high rpm fan, blowing air into fins or pulling out from fins to rear fan? Lets, say if I mount this high rpm fan pulling air towards rear exhaust fan, then as this is spinning higher than rear fan (2000rpm), is there a possibility that the rear one will be having interruption in its rotation due to heavy air flow coming to it but it cannot handle that heavy air flow due to its slow speed.
What do you think??? What should I do?


----------



## axipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AshutoshM*
> 
> @ axipher, I will do the same as you have done. Instead of buying two new fan I'll now only buy one instead as in order to use 212+ with dual fans I already have a 90mm fan that is a very high rpm (4600rpm) fan. I think I will be able to mount this 90mm fan on 212+ without a problem. Also, as there will be now two different rpm fans i.e. 2000rpm (one that comes with 212+) and one which I have (4500rpm, but I will be running it at around 3000rpm coz it is very loud at 4500rpm). So, how should I mount these two fans i.e. high rpm fan, blowing air into fins or pulling out from fins to rear fan? Lets, say if I mount this high rpm fan pulling air towards rear exhaust fan, then as this is spinning higher than rear fan (2000rpm), is there a possibility that the rear one will be having interruption in its rotation due to heavy air flow coming to it but it cannot handle that heavy air flow due to its slow speed.
> What do you think??? What should I do?


You should separate your post into sections, a big wall of text like that is difficult to read for most people.

To answer your question though:

1) You don't want different fans as push/pull

2) The 212+ doesn't really benefit from having push/pull as the results have shown.

3) RPM is not how to determine a fan's power, blade count and design drastically affect airflow and static pressure of a fan. For example, my Gentle Typhoon AP-15's spin much slower then my Scythe Slipstreams but produce more airflow when put against a RAD or heatsink because they have higher static pressure.


----------



## chinesethunda

as said above, don't use different fans, if you looked at the first post in more detail, you would see that push pull won't help with 2 of the same fans, 2 different fans especially in different sizes would only decrease performance


----------



## AshutoshM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *axipher*
> 
> You should separate your post into sections, a big wall of text like that is difficult to read for most people.
> To answer your question though:
> 1) You don't want different fans as push/pull
> 2) The 212+ doesn't really benefit from having push/pull as the results have shown.
> 3) RPM is not how to determine a fan's power, blade count and design drastically affect airflow and static pressure of a fan. For example, my Gentle Typhoon AP-15's spin much slower then my Scythe Slipstreams but produce more airflow when put against a RAD or heatsink because they have higher static pressure.


Sorry about that. I will divide my post into smaller sections.

Regarding what I had said in my earlier post that when two different fans are used, the one which is slower will bottleneck the one which
blows more air/s.

So, I'll be testing which config. that is two similar fans or two different fans work better.

Regarding the fan RPM, you are right that only RPM can't decide the air flow of a fan but in my case, the larger rpm fan is so louder and
faster that even if I combine two 120mm 2000rpm fans, they can't beat this beast!


----------



## chinesethunda

its not the slower bottlenecking the faster, because the blademaster pushes a lot of air, its also a lot bigger, so it pushes air around it.


----------



## Captain Mayhem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> if you cut out your rear grill, you wouldn't need the fan in the back, and your push pull would be much more effective


rear grille's been cut out. I just need to either get some plasticard to create the duct or find some hardwall dryer flexible ducting to attach to the fan.

sort of like this stuff...


----------



## justanewguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> rear grille's been cut out. I just need to either get some plasticard to create the duct or find some hardwall dryer flexible ducting to attach to the fan.
> sort of like this stuff...


wait! you also cut the mounting holes?


----------



## Captain Mayhem

no, didn't cut any of the mounts out. just the entire screen. Did it when the system was live, but not on.

Taped up both sides to make sure no errant metal particles got away, and pulled it out.


----------



## chinesethunda

sounds good, how do your temps look now?


----------



## Tyreman

I had 2 Excalibur coolermasters on my old 212+

Didn't notice a heck of a lot of difference as has been found here with push-pull configuration

I bought the new 212 evo installed and ran with the stock supplied fan for about 15 minutes, prime 95.

Then shut down swapped out hooked up a single Excalibur fan made by coolermaster, primed away again for 15 minutes

So the stock fan ran oh about 1500's + rpm and the Excalibur runs around 2000's + rpm under prime 95 loads
with no loads the oem fan runs bit slower than the Excalibur maybe 200 rpm-+

As far as I could tell its no way scientific by any means the temps were essentially the same between the two fans
Though the Excalibur turns faster

The 212 evo oem supplied 120mm fan compared to its more expensive Excalibur 120mm has a different bearing system and i believe longer use rating on Excalibur
also the Excalibur has a metal mesh around the circumference of the fan.


----------



## chinesethunda

what were the temps when you tested them? also did you run prime on them?


----------



## darkphantom

Anyone using kaze slipstreams on a 212 evo? I just got a slip-stream to test it out, impressed that it is somewhat quiet at full RPM


----------



## Propflux01

I have the Elite 430 case as well, with 140mm intake, 120mm Side intake, 120mm rear exhaust, and 2X 120MM top exhaust. I am wondering if I should use a pull method (one fan only) or push? Gonna use the stock 212 EVO fan as well. I am thinking Vertical install (bcs of RAM height).


----------



## esCob4r

+red'd Awesome read! I have been fighting with myself over the best way to cool my new i5-2550K. I currently have a Hyper 212+ and do not have the funds to do any upgrades unless I make some sales. I intend to go water cooling but I have been trying to push my i5-2550K as much as I can on air. So far I have been able to actually reach 5.0Ghz on hyper 212+ but temps were to high. I wouldn't even call it stable for I shut down ibt before it even go half way through. I didn't even attempt prime95. Temps were way to high. I currently use a Cooler Master Haf 912. So this read was very helpful. When I get some time to myself I will have to test this all out myself. I already know the best route for me with the hyper 212+ is horizontal blowing air out the rear of the case for when I tried it vertically, blowing air out the top of the case my temps were higher due to the air going through the hyper 212+ were already heated from the back of my gpu.


----------



## esCob4r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Propflux01*
> 
> I have the Elite 430 case as well, with 140mm intake, 120mm Side intake, 120mm rear exhaust, and 2X 120MM top exhaust. I am wondering if I should use a pull method (one fan only) or push? Gonna use the stock 212 EVO fan as well. I am thinking Vertical install (bcs of RAM height).


You can have it run horizontal even if your concerned about ram clearance. All you need to do is install the fans a bit higher then the memory heat spreaders.


----------



## Propflux01

Cool, Thank you. Then I am to assume by moving the fan up, a push configuration would be better than a pull configuration in my case?


----------



## darkphantom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *esCob4r*
> 
> +red'd Awesome read! I have been fighting with myself over the best way to cool my new i5-2550K. I currently have a Hyper 212+ and do not have the funds to do any upgrades unless I make some sales. I intend to go water cooling but I have been trying to push my i5-2550K as much as I can on air. So far I have been able to actually reach 5.0Ghz on hyper 212+ but temps were to high. I wouldn't even call it stable for I shut down ibt before it even go half way through. I didn't even attempt prime95. Temps were way to high. I currently use a Cooler Master Haf 912. So this read was very helpful. When I get some time to myself I will have to test this all out myself. I already know the best route for me with the hyper 212+ is horizontal blowing air out the rear of the case for when I tried it vertically, blowing air out the top of the case my temps were higher due to the air going through the hyper 212+ were already heated from the back of my gpu.


I have mine blowing away from the gpu, and another fan perpendicular to that one. Works well, but I think i've reached the thermal limits of the cooler.


----------



## jdip

I'm wondering why there were higher temps with a rear fan vs not using one. Perhaps it was due to the different air flow of the different fans (your case fan vs the Blademasters). Maybe if you used 2 Blademasters in Push/Pull and another Blademaster it wouldn't behave the same way. Just speculating here.


----------



## chinesethunda

I will do another test with the blademasters in the rear slot, but even with blademasters it will be extra noise, and with the pull fan so close to the rear slot, not having one would be most beneficial since the pull fan will push air out and whatever air is left in the case it can escape on its own, therefore having a balanced airflow inside the case


----------



## axipher

Just let me know if you need updated charts and graphs.


----------



## Tyreman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> what were the temps when you tested them? also did you run prime on them?


Primed with both sets of fans
negligible difference really
temps always in middle to upper 60's, depending on test


----------



## chinesethunda

i guess if the stock fans were slower than the excalibers and cooled just the same, would show that the stock blademasters are better no?


----------



## Tyreman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> i guess if the stock fans were slower than the excalibers and cooled just the same, would show that the stock blademasters are better no?


Yes correct.
In fact I ordered 2 oem blademasters for the 212+ then installed them on the 212 evo which i use now.

Gave the son the excaliburs for his h100 rad if he wants them.
I was hoping for a bit better cooling and longer life bearing system.


----------



## chinesethunda

lol too bad i don't have my gt ap15s with me lol


----------



## jfcarbel

Ok, here is a bizarre one with case on its side (horizontal) my temps at 4.3 Ghz at Prime95 load are 64C and I am very happy with this from a Hyper EVO.

But, If I turn case vertical (normal tower position), then within 2 minutes the temps shot up to 80C
And if I put case back to its side position and restart Prime95, the temps return to normal 64C at load.

Anyone have an ideas on this?

Whats most likely - defective MB that has backpanel plate not working to sustain weight of Hyper EVO cooler. Or that the cooler itself has bad mount and is defective?

The screws to motherboard are fully tightened and when I try to wiggle the cooler it does not give and is very snug to cpu.

I know that with Hyper EVO that there is this tension screw in middle and perhaps it is giving too much when case is vertical.


----------



## jfcarbel

Ok was having some issues with EVO and temps, here is what I discovered. This applies to an LGA2011 socket X79 Gigabyte UD5 MB and i3820 CPU. The third time was a charm so if you are not happy with temps then try, try again. The third time I went back to store and got a new EVO then this time I did not tin the cooler bottom all I did was cleaned it quick with a little arctic surface preparer solution. I use disposable coffee filters for all my cleaning needs as its cheap and easy. I also highly recommend the Artic cleaner along with the surface purifier they make the CPU sparkle no matter how many applications.

For TIM, I used the included CM paste and use a small Pea size in middle of CPU (actually more like half a pea size as your not going to get a 3D pea size with TIM). So its as if you took a raw pea cut it in half and laid it in middle of CPU. Best way I can describe it.

So here is the comparison.

These temps are Prime95 load tests with OC i3820 to 4.3 Ghz using stock vCore.
Also ambient room temp is cool since with A/C its 70F in room.

3rd time: 55C
2nd time: 64C
1st time: 62C

One weird issue I discovered on 1st/2nd tries was was that when case was with case on its side (horizontal) my temps at 4.3 Ghz at Prime95 load are 64C but when I turn case vertical (normal tower position), then within 2 minutes the temps shot up to 80C. And if I put case back to its side position and restart Prime95, the temps return to normal 64C at load. I believe it was either a defective cooler (surface maybe not right) or too much TIM as 1st/2nd times used a 2 line method.

Hope this helps others. I am very happy with 55C OC load from a $36 cooler. These temps are as good as I see for expensive water coolers. So very pleased with this cooler.


----------



## chinesethunda

probably because you might not have screwed it in all the way so it was loose or not enough TIM


----------



## axipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> probably because you might not have screwed it in all the way so it was loose or not enough TIM


I found with my 212+, on AMD sockets anyway was really touchy with how you screwed it down. If you screwed down one corner too much first, the TIM would get spread the opposite way and you wouldn't have even close to a even spread.


----------



## chinesethunda

yeah, most coolers tend to do that, you have to go in diagonals, like 5 rotations for each screw, top left, bottom right, top right, bottom left and so on


----------



## chinesethunda

will post more results comparing to gt ap15s when i get them


----------



## axipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> will post more results comparing to gt ap15s when i get them


Sounds good, if you need a spreadsheet and chart update, let me know.


----------



## chinesethunda

okay good, other people can post results too. It might take me a while to get my ap15s


----------



## chinesethunda

bumpage for people to reference


----------



## chinesethunda

More bump. Has anyone tried 140mm fans on the 212+?


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> More bump. Has anyone tried 140mm fans on the 212+?


I will be doing similar tests one I get my delta pwm 120mm fan in. I am going to do about 6 to 7 different setups in a Rosewill R5 gaming case. This is an amazing thread btw! Should be a sticky on the front of air cooling! I am amazed that the best core temps under load was with just one high static pressure pull fan without a rear exhaust!

I am going to add a top exhaust into the mix and see what happens. I will keep everyone updated~!


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Here are the tests I am thinking of doing:

1) Two front stock fan intake, stock coolermaster evo fan PUSH, one stock rear exhaust (Just as reference)
2) Two front stock fan intake, delta pwm fan PUSH, (no rear exhaust / this would be to compare a push high RPM with no top exhaust / just haven't seen this test done and I am curious)
3) Two front stock fan intake, delta pwm fan PUSH, one stock rear exhaust (This would compare the stock fan, to a higher rpm, static pressure fan)
4) Two front stock fan intake, delta pwm fan PUSH, one stock rear exhaust, one top exhaust
5) Two front stock fan intake, delta pwm fan PUSH, just top exhuast added
6) Two front stock fan intake, delta pwm fan PULL, no rear exhaust
7) Two front stock fan intake, delta pwm fan PULL, no rear exhuast, top exhuast added

I am not going to attempt to do a push/pull because I didn't buy two delta fans. Plus, I am seeing that one fan with much more room to work is much more efficient that 3 in a line/ pull and exhaust setup. But, we will see how much adding a top exhaust will help. Plus, I will do the tests in the above order to see how much they change with the next variable.


----------



## youthagainst

This was an amazing thread. I was just expecting to see something like "Moar fanz iz always better." I was shocked to see the graphs and spreadsheets. I know this must have taken a lot of effort, and I really appreciate that you folks did this.

I just wanted to post that my results using a 212 EVO with the stock fan and the stock fan from my old Xigmatek HDT S1283 in push pull is also ~1-2 C of difference. I decided to leave them in this configuration because not only does it run cooler, but I also appreciate the redundancy in case of failure.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *youthagainst*
> 
> This was an amazing thread. I was just expecting to see something like "Moar fanz iz always better." I was shocked to see the graphs and spreadsheets. I know this must have taken a lot of effort, and I really appreciate that you folks did this.
> I just wanted to post that my results using a 212 EVO with the stock fan and the stock fan from my old Xigmatek HDT S1283 in push pull is also ~1-2 C of difference. I decided to leave them in this configuration because not only does it run cooler, but I also appreciate the redundancy in case of failure.


It certainly is. I did all my testing tonight like I said I would. I found some interesting things. I will post all results tomorrow here and in a new thread. It warrants discussion.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrtoyotaco*
> 
> It certainly is. I did all my testing tonight like I said I would. I found some interesting things. I will post all results tomorrow here and in a new thread. It warrants discussion.


Interesting. I currently haven't done any test except Stock vs Push Pull(Push Pull wins by 3-5C under load)

I did a bit research on Stock Fan used on CPU Cooler and found that high air pressure fans aren't that popular:

NH-D14: the front push fan NF-P12have an max air pressure of 1.68 mm H2O, the middle Pull Fan NF-P14 have only max1.29mm H2O(Total of about 3 mm)
PH-TC14PE: The dual PH-F140 fan only have an max air pressure of 1.21mm H2O(total about 2.4mm)

Hyper 212 Evo: The stock XtraFlo 120 only have an max air pressure of 2.7mm H20

Whereas:
Hyper 212 Plus: The Blademaster 120 mounted on it have max an air pressure of 3.9 mm H2O

Could this be interpreted as High Air Pressure doesn't improve a CPU's cooler power? Else why would better Heatsinks(D14/14PE)'s feature 2 fan whose combined pressure is less than that of 212 Plus's stock fan?

Also, if Hyper 212 Evo is designed to be better than 212 Plus, why would it use a fan with lower max air pressure than the Plus? The only explanation I can think off is that Blademaster's 1.2 mm H2O extra pressure wasn't significant compared to XtraFlow's higher CFM(82 vs 76)


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> Interesting. I currently haven't done any test except Stock vs Push Pull(Push Pull wins by 3-5C under load)
> I did a bit research on Stock Fan used on CPU Cooler and found that high air pressure fans aren't that popular:
> NH-D14: the front push fan NF-P12have an max air pressure of 1.68 mm H2O, the middle Pull Fan NF-P14 have only max1.29mm H2O(Total of about 3 mm)
> PH-TC14PE: The dual PH-F140 fan only have an max air pressure of 1.21mm H2O(total about 2.4mm)
> Hyper 212 Evo: The stock XtraFlo 120 only have an max air pressure of 2.7mm H20
> Whereas:
> Hyper 212 Plus: The Blademaster 120 mounted on it have max an air pressure of 3.9 mm H2O
> Could this be interpreted as High Air Pressure doesn't improve a CPU's cooler power? Else why would better Heatsinks(D14/14PE)'s feature 2 fan whose combined pressure is less than that of 212 Plus's stock fan?
> Also, if Hyper 212 Evo is designed to be better than 212 Plus, why would it use a fan with lower max air pressure than the Plus? The only explanation I can think off is that Blademaster's 1.2 mm H2O extra pressure wasn't significant compared to XtraFlow's higher CFM(82 vs 76)


I always figured you wanted a high static pressure fans when cooling through radiators. You will see tomorrow my test results. I think the Delta PWM high static pressure fan is much better for my EVO than the stock fan. I will post data here too.

Also, they may not be that popular because when running a push/pull setup with 2 HIGH static pressure fan(like two deltas) it can do more harm than good. More isn't always better. And faster RPM/ higher CFM/ higher static pressure isnt always better either like most people think. It is all about the case and cooling setup you implement. They are also MORE expensive.


----------



## axipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *youthagainst*
> 
> This was an amazing thread. I was just expecting to see something like "Moar fanz iz always better." I was shocked to see the graphs and spreadsheets. I know this must have taken a lot of effort, and I really appreciate that you folks did this.
> 
> I just wanted to post that my results using a 212 EVO with the stock fan and the stock fan from my old Xigmatek HDT S1283 in push pull is also ~1-2 C of difference. I decided to leave them in this configuration because not only does it run cooler, but I also appreciate the redundancy in case of failure.


Glad you found the information useful


----------



## sherlock

Question for the OP:

Where did you find the totally transparent SickleFlow with 2500 RPM?


The only Blue Sickle Flow I found are part black and only go up to 2000 RPM

Thinking about going from a Xtraflo 120(stock)+Blademaster 120(pull) to a pair of Blue LED Sickles on my 212 Evo for better look & quieter operation, not sure how much cooling I am giving up.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> okay good, other people can post results too. It might take me a while to get my ap15s


To op:

I submitted my finds and recommendations with my testing in a new thread.

It is here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1305446/different-testing-scenarios-coolermaster-hyper-212-graph-data-findings-recommendations

Feel free to add/update to this as you wish. I do not mind you taking/copying any of my data.

Cheers.


----------



## chinesethunda

I added a link to your results on the front page

the 2500rpm sickleflows are the old ones that I had gotten a link to by ehume, i'll see if i can find a link to them.

Also higher static pressure is better for heat sinks, i don't like the evo's stock fan because the xtraflow doesn't have as high of a static pressure as the blademaster, i think it spins a little faster, but that means more noise, and honestly the blademaster isn't really that loud at all. i had 2 running push pull for the longest of time and if you look at the comparison done by ehume, it performs better than the gt ap15s.

it isn't that people aren't a fan of the higher static pressure, it's because higher static pressure tend to be a result of higher rpm, meaning it is louder, and people want quieter fans, and quieter fans generally means less rpms therefore less static pressure.


----------



## Captain Mayhem

sorry for the.. very. long absence but, I will continue testing when the new hardware arrives, using the HVAC ducting that I was planning on using. Soon, hopefully, we'll see just how well it performs on an i5 3570k.


----------



## chinesethunda

no problem man, i lost my hyper212+, well not lost, but gave it to my cousin, i have a upgrade to the hyper212+, but i don't think i can mention it yet, but i will post some results later when i can find a way to mount some fans to it

Also for those who were interested, the 2500k rpm sickleflow is here http://www.svc.com/y720dcd-25t1-gp.html


----------



## axipher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> no problem man, i lost my hyper212+, well not lost, but gave it to my cousin, i have a upgrade to the hyper212+, but i don't think i can mention it yet, but i will post some results later when i can find a way to mount some fans to it
> 
> Also for those who were interested, the 2500k rpm sickleflow is here http://www.svc.com/y720dcd-25t1-gp.html


If you'd like to post results similar to like you did here, I don't mind doing graphs again for you.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> I added a link to your results on the front page
> the 2500rpm sickleflows are the old ones that I had gotten a link to by ehume, i'll see if i can find a link to them.
> Also higher static pressure is better for heat sinks, i don't like the evo's stock fan because the xtraflow doesn't have as high of a static pressure as the blademaster, i think it spins a little faster, but that means more noise, and honestly the blademaster isn't really that loud at all. i had 2 running push pull for the longest of time and if you look at the comparison done by ehume, it performs better than the gt ap15s.
> it isn't that people aren't a fan of the higher static pressure, it's because higher static pressure tend to be a result of higher rpm, meaning it is louder, and people want quieter fans, and quieter fans generally means less rpms therefore less static pressure.


Thanks! Much appreciated.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> sorry for the.. very. long absence but, I will continue testing when the new hardware arrives, using the HVAC ducting that I was planning on using. Soon, hopefully, we'll see just how well it performs on an i5 3570k.


As chinesethunda said, you should have NO problem whatsoever. Most of around are OC'd in the mid 4.0ghz range and cooling well under TJ Max temps with the EVO 212 or plus.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> no problem man, i lost my hyper212+, well not lost, but gave it to my cousin, i have a upgrade to the hyper212+, but i don't think i can mention it yet, but i will post some results later when i can find a way to mount some fans to it
> Also for those who were interested, the 2500k rpm sickleflow is here http://www.svc.com/y720dcd-25t1-gp.html


I like those. BLUEEEE.


----------



## chinesethunda

yeah, i had bought 6 of them back then, and then i realized you would have to do some simple wiring if you want to hook them up to a fan controller. they come with their own, but they have 2 separate pins for both the rpm setting and the on off for the light. which is neat, but just a tad too much work for a lazy me back then, but it's an easy job if you guys get it and need help.

Does anyone want to test the hyper212+ with 140mm fans and compare them to the blademasters?


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> yeah, i had bought 6 of them back then, and then i realized you would have to do some simple wiring if you want to hook them up to a fan controller. they come with their own, but they have 2 separate pins for both the rpm setting and the on off for the light. which is neat, but just a tad too much work for a lazy me back then, but it's an easy job if you guys get it and need help.
> Does anyone want to test the hyper212+ with 140mm fans and compare them to the blademasters?


I would if I had 140mm fans and use some zip ties. TBH, I think it will increase load temps. Unless you can completely direct the airflow towarrds the rear of the case without losing any on the sides (which will be a heluva lot)

4.99 for those puppies?? CHEAP CHEAP. Lol. I am trying to find some 120mm fans that are a nice blue. The cheapest I can get. At this point, I am not worried about efficiency. I am more than efficient right now with my air setup. Just looking to add some color.


----------



## chinesethunda

i would get a couple if you don't mind doing some of your own wiring for fan control.

i'm pretty sure 140mm fans would be better for cooling, especially if you just used the 140mm fans with 120mm holes and just attached them to the hyper 212+ using the brackets because they will fit


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> i would get a couple if you don't mind doing some of your own wiring for fan control.
> i'm pretty sure 140mm fans would be better for cooling, especially if you just used the 140mm fans with 120mm holes and just attached them to the hyper 212+ using the brackets because they will fit


Can you piggy back all of them to one rpm switch? I love how they have extra wires for the LEDS. I could get a little push button toggle and mount it some where on my case.


----------



## chinesethunda

you could piggy back them all to one switch. although it's just like any other fan though, you can maybe fit 2-3 of them to one controller depending on how much wattage your controller can handle, you could hook it up to a button for the led lights, i was going to do that when i got my fans but was a little too lazy for that lol. anyways they are now replaced with 5 gt ap15s instead


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> you could piggy back them all to one switch. although it's just like any other fan though, you can maybe fit 2-3 of them to one controller depending on how much wattage your controller can handle, you could hook it up to a button for the led lights, i was going to do that when i got my fans but was a little too lazy for that lol. anyways they are now replaced with 5 gt ap15s instead


Nice. I may scoop up about 4 to 5 of those blue sickflows. Do you still have some laying around? I'll buy them from you. Im just looking to get some color in my case. And if I can get a performance kick out of it as well, then okay.

Also, I am thinking of that top exhuast and top intake about the grilles not underneath is going to be a big help. We will see.


----------



## chinesethunda

i only have 2 that are new, they are all opened, but i had cut some of the 4pin molex wires from some of them, and the pins on the other 4 are bent because i had to touch them together for them to run at max rpms when i had it on my case, anyways it might just be cheaper to buy it from the website because shipping would be cheaper from them than from me lol


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> i only have 2 that are new, they are all opened, but i had cut some of the 4pin molex wires from some of them, and the pins on the other 4 are bent because i had to touch them together for them to run at max rpms when i had it on my case, anyways it might just be cheaper to buy it from the website because shipping would be cheaper from them than from me lol


Lol. Alright bro. Just thought I would ask.


----------



## chinesethunda

no hurt in asking, i'd sell them to you with no hesitation were it actually cheaper for you to do so lol


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> no hurt in asking, i'd sell them to you with no hesitation were it actually cheaper for you to do so lol


Do you know much shipping is on that site? I can't get them to give me a shipping quote without putting in paypal or credit card info.


----------



## chinesethunda

the shipping estimator worked for me, it said 9 bucks for shipping for me for 3 day shipping


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> the shipping estimator worked for me, it said 9 bucks for shipping for me for 3 day shipping


K. Maybe because you have purchased from them before? But, it will not give me a shipping quote without me putting credit card info along with my address and stuff.


----------



## chinesethunda

hmm weird, i wasn't logged in, i just put in my zip code at the bottom and their shipping calculator just gave me the shipping cost


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> hmm weird, i wasn't logged in, i just put in my zip code at the bottom and their shipping calculator just gave me the shipping cost


You calling me liar?









Just trolling you... LOL. "I so stupid". I didn't see that thing down there. Thanks for pointing it out. Haha.


----------



## chinesethunda

np i hope shipping for you is less than it is for me


----------



## jtc10512

Have you benched pulling vertically? You know what I mean... Heat sink is technically horizontal but airflow goes up, etc.
It _might_ lower temps a little since I noticed your pulling-only tests signified lower temps.

Oh, forgot to add, i have a bottom-mounted PSU case with open ventilation on top. (gamma/m59 type NZXT case)


----------



## chinesethunda

if you look at my original post, it has me testing the way you described. I was thinking about getting a bottom mounted psu, but haven't gotten one yet, shoulda nabbed the switch 210 when it was on sale


----------



## jtc10512

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> if you look at my original post, it has me testing the way you described. I was thinking about getting a bottom mounted psu, but haven't gotten one yet, shoulda nabbed the switch 210 when it was on sale


Ah I see. I'm sure an open-air-top case would yield a better result when pushing the air out, vs pushing it through the PSU.


----------



## Captain Mayhem

yay! prodigy is in. I think the next step is to get either a pair of 140mm fans -- or a 200mm intake fan, a 140 for the exhaust and a 120mm for balance.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> if you look at my original post, it has me testing the way you described. I was thinking about getting a bottom mounted psu, but haven't gotten one yet, shoulda nabbed the switch 210 when it was on sale


Just a note, when I had my PSU mounted on the bottom UPSIDE DOWn (Exhaust fan pointing up) it added temps to my setup. When I turned it over (THE RIGHT WAY DOWN), with the exhuast downward, my temps went down a little.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> yay! prodigy is in. I think the next step is to get either a pair of 140mm fans -- or a 200mm intake fan, a 140 for the exhaust and a 120mm for balance.


200mm!


----------



## jtc10512

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrtoyotaco*
> 
> Just a note, when I had my PSU mounted on the bottom UPSIDE DOWn (Exhaust fan pointing up) it added temps to my setup. When I turned it over (THE RIGHT WAY DOWN), with the exhuast downward, my temps went down a little.
> 200mm!


Heh, I have a Tt TR2 so the fans are horizontally pushing/pulling air. I guess I don't have to worry about that skewing the temps.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtc10512*
> 
> Heh, I have a Tt TR2 so the fans are horizontally pushing/pulling air. I guess I don't have to worry about that skewing the temps.


Your avatar is rather disturbing sir lol


----------



## jtc10512

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrtoyotaco*
> 
> Your avatar is rather disturbing sir lol


Lol it expresses computer frustration. I had this frustration, then I got upgrades. I also have those frustrations when i'm stuck using another computer.
Also, my friends like the avatar. xD


----------



## Captain Mayhem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrtoyotaco*
> 
> 200mm!


got a recommendation?


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> got a recommendation?


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103072


----------



## jtc10512

This one has 125 CFM vs that 110 CFM but is only 1dB louder.
http://www.xoxide.com/apevia-200m4pledcfan-uvblue.html
Also, compare and contrast other 200MM fans on that site. they have an extensive collection and give you quick access to the specs of the fan like CFM and dB.


----------



## chinesethunda

lol i've seen that gif before and always found it funny

either fan is good, i have the nzxt 200 fans, but iirc they are like 190mm but they do push a lot of air though. otherwise most of the 200mm fans are good enough

next time theres a really good deal on a case i'll get one for my other rig, since it's not my main rig i'm not going to spend a bunch of money for the case, anyways i feel like i'm going to have to mod it again lol


----------



## mrtoyotaco

I think you should buy the cheapest 200mm fan honestly. They all perform about that same and all serve that one purpose.


----------



## Captain Mayhem

ooh, i like the nzxt fan. a good amount of airflow for not much noise. and I can undervolt it for absolute silent operation.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> ooh, i like the nzxt fan. a good amount of airflow for not much noise. and I can undervolt it for absolute silent operation.


Sounds good


----------



## jtc10512

Yeah those NZXT fans are amazing. They only go up to about 1300 RPM at 12v, but they push plenty of air. I have two in my case. One in front to cool the HDDs and one on the side to intake air for the GPU.
Since my case has an open air top, I don't really need fans up there. All three openings are open.









Edit: woops forgot to mention that the 120mm gets 1300RPM. maybe the 200 is more/less the same.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

200mm fans FTW


----------



## mrtoyotaco

UPDATED TESTING THREAD FOUND IN SIG


----------



## Captain Mayhem

I just had a brainwave. Seeing as the prodigy has the exhaust sitting directly BEHIND the 212+'s location, and a vent directly ABOVE the cooler location, I can probably reverse the airflow... so that it gets hit with the coldest air possible.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> I just had a brainwave. Seeing as the prodigy has the exhaust sitting directly BEHIND the 212+'s location, and a vent directly ABOVE the cooler location, I can probably reverse the airflow... so that it gets hit with the coldest air possible.


Who are you referring to?


----------



## Captain Mayhem

Not who, but what.

the Bitfenix Prodigy case.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> Not who, but what.
> the Bitfenix Prodigy case.


AHHH


----------



## Conspiracy

what are you talking about? like having the fan in the top of the case as an intake and the rear as exhaust so it gets fresh air passing through the heat sink much faster?


----------



## jtc10512

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conspiracy*
> 
> what are you talking about? like having the fan in the top of the case as an intake and the rear as exhaust so it gets fresh air passing through the heat sink much faster?


I've tried that in my case. It really disrupts the natural airflow. You don't need fans on top or behind the cooler to get better airflow. A two fan push-pull scenario with the cooler is plenty of airflow to pull through it, as long as you have a decent CFM fan. (which i know those blademasters do.) If you have at least two mesh openings in the front of your case to let the air naturally flow in, you'll have a direct line of flow across the case through the cooler.


----------



## Captain Mayhem

Prodigy sitting on my bench










See the four small cylinders? that's how the motherboard mounts, and the cooler will be jutting up in front of that rear vent.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> Prodigy sitting on my bench
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See the four small cylinders? that's how the motherboard mounts, and the cooler will be jutting up in front of that rear vent.


Mini ITX case?


----------



## Captain Mayhem

yup. almost as big as a microATX case, but much roomier.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> yup. almost as big as a microATX case, but much roomier.


what are you using it for


----------



## Captain Mayhem

I'm planning on migrating as much of my existing rig over to the new case. the motherboard will likely be an EVGA Z77 Stinger, when it appears on the market, with an i5 3570k. Later on down the road, I'll add an SSD into the mix.

But in the meantime, I'll unify the ODD cage and the dual HDD cage into one unit, provided the gfx card will clear it.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> I'm planning on migrating as much of my existing rig over to the new case. the motherboard will likely be an EVGA Z77 Stinger, when it appears on the market, with an i5 3570k. Later on down the road, I'll add an SSD into the mix.
> But in the meantime, I'll unify the ODD cage and the dual HDD cage into one unit, provided the gfx card will clear it.


I really want to sell my PS3 and get a nice GPU for my main rig. (I use it for movies too). But, I eveutally want to move my main rig in another room and build a cheap htpc.


----------



## Captain Mayhem

I paid 80 bucks for the prodigy, and i'm sure you can get a decent ITX board for under 100.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> I paid 80 bucks for the prodigy, and i'm sure you can get a decent ITX board for under 100.


Easy. Gigabyte sells one for 80ish, so does asrock. Asus runs around 100 or so for a good one.


----------



## chinesethunda

reverse air flow is not as great if it's done incorrectly, too much intake from both sides disrupts it, but not a bad idea though


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrtoyotaco*
> 
> Easy. Gigabyte sells one for 80ish, so does asrock. Asus runs around 100 or so for a good one.


Choose mobo very carefully. Many have CPU socket very close to PCI slot. So make sure you have room for your cooler to clear the PCI slot.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Just put a massive noctua cooler on the mini itx board! Oc for the win!


----------



## chinesethunda

i think for something that small you would almost have to go with a closed loop or something really small. but the case air flow would be pretty simple for a case that small though


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> i think for something that small you would almost have to go with a closed loop or something really small. but the case air flow would be pretty simple for a case that small though


Yeah, it shouldn't be a problem. That's a pretty nice case for a mini ITX setup.


----------



## Captain Mayhem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrtoyotaco*
> 
> Just put a massive noctua cooler on the mini itx board! Oc for the win!


I might do that.

or maybe an archon/armageddon.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> I might do that.
> or maybe an archon/armageddon.


I was totally trolling but okay. Lol. It would be beast though.


----------



## jtc10512

Found out today that a noctua NH-D14 can fit in my M59 case. thought my case was too small.








i'm definetly going to buy a Hyper 212+ as my next upgrade though. almost anything else is smaller than the NH-D14


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtc10512*
> 
> Found out today that a noctua NH-D14 can fit in my M59 case. thought my case was too small.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i'm definetly going to buy a Hyper 212+ as my next upgrade though. almost anything else is smaller than the NH-D14


Agreed


----------



## Captain Mayhem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrtoyotaco*
> 
> I was totally trolling but okay. Lol. It would be beast though.


In my book, a troll that's actually a good idea isn't a troll.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> In my book, a troll that's actually a good idea isn't a troll.


Haha. Indeed.


----------



## chinesethunda

wait, if the d14 fits in the case, why replace it?


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Just to let this thread know too,

Hyper 212+ 19.99 at newegg for 72hrs AFTER MAIL IN REBATES!!


----------



## jtc10512

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> wait, if the d14 fits in the case, why replace it?


I dont have the NH-D14 in my case. It would fit, but the cooler is too damn expensive. The next best thing is the hyper 212+ and its only $20 with MIR on newegg right now. I just wish I had some cash.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtc10512*
> 
> I dont have the NH-D14 in my case. It would fit, but the cooler is too damn expensive. The next best thing is the hyper 212+ and its only $20 with MIR on newegg right now. I just wish I had some cash.


Yep.


----------



## chinesethunda

deciding if i want to get a new case to do the same tests, although i might get a new case first and then do tests with top vs bottom psu mounts


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> deciding if i want to get a new case to do the same tests, although i might get a new case first and then do tests with top vs bottom psu mounts


corsair 800d


----------



## chinesethunda

lol i want something cheap though, i've been looking at the case sales for a while, i want something really cheap, but at least semi decent quality, but i have time to wait while i work on my school stuff lol


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> lol i want something cheap though, i've been looking at the case sales for a while, i want something really cheap, but at least semi decent quality, but i have time to wait while i work on my school stuff lol


Rosewill. My case is $80 but I got it on sale for half the price.

They make some pretty nice budget cases as well.


----------



## Conspiracy

i dont know much about cases as i have only built one computer.

but the corsair carbide series, like my 300R is nicely priced and good quality. as Toyotaco mentioned rosewill has some nicely priced stuff, thermaltake (not sure on quality of their cases but i hated my old computer case that was a thermaltake m9, tight space with no room for cable management and just overall kinda meh), antec has a cheap case as well.

i definitely suggest checking out reviews of these cases as all the major manufacturers have budget cases in the $50-75 range but i have no clue if each company makes sure their cheap cases are still good quality.


----------



## Conspiracy

i highly suggest if you want to try out prime lenses going with the 50 1.8. i have no knowledge of the quality of the 50 1.8 that sony makes for their DSLR cameras but if its anything like canon/nikon which im not sure if it is. but needlesstosay the 50 1.8 is generally the best price per overall image quality you can get in a lens. you can always get a cheaper 50mm prime from another system and adapt it to your camera but you will lose auto focus i think. i havent used many sony cameras other than sony video cameras


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conspiracy*
> 
> i dont know much about cases as i have only built one computer.
> but the corsair carbide series, like my 300R is nicely priced and good quality. as Toyotaco mentioned rosewill has some nicely priced stuff, thermaltake (not sure on quality of their cases but i hated my old computer case that was a thermaltake m9, tight space with no room for cable management and just overall kinda meh), antec has a cheap case as well.
> i definitely suggest checking out reviews of these cases as all the major manufacturers have budget cases in the $50-75 range but i have no clue if each company makes sure their cheap cases are still good quality.


I always liked the corsair 300r for the same price as mine.


----------



## 2thAche

I'd want to see the vertical mount test in a case with exhaust fans up top. That config for me has been very effective with H212+, with a vented side door where air can enter.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2thAche*
> 
> I'd want to see the vertical mount test in a case with exhaust fans up top. That config for me has been very effective with H212+, with a vented side door where air can enter.


I would too...

However,

I don't think there would be that much a difference if you have it vertical push with a rear exhaust (with grille) versus horizontal push with a top exhaust (with grille).

I have been noticing that MORE intake air is not always the best for the 212. You can check one of my tests where I added a top intake and it really didn't change anything. In fact, I think I got a few core temps a tad higher.


----------



## jtc10512

You can get a NZXT gamma case for $40 and it has the same build as an M59 (in fact the parts are interchangeable.) I bought a gamma for $40 and asked NZXT RMA for a left side panel and a front side panel for an M59, and i've basically transformed my gamma case into an M59 which is $20 more expensive. (M59=$60,Gamma=$40)

Basic specs: Mid-tower case
bottom mount PSU
rear fan 120mm
top fan 140mmx2
front fan 120mm
side fan depends on side panel: M59 = 1x120mm, Gamma = 2x 120mm

P.S. the M59 side panel comes with a pre-mounted 120mm blue-LED fan. You can easily change it for another 120mm, but a free fan is a plus. I don't know if the M59 comes with a rear fan, but if you buy the gamma and ask RMA for the m59 side panel, you will have a free 120mm fan from the gamma, and a free 120mm fan from the m59 side panel.


----------



## chinesethunda

I know there are so many good cases for cheap, there was a storm scout refurbed on the cm site a while back for 50 bucks i think, shoulda gotten it, but I am fairly familiar with the cases, I'm just waiting for some better price drops. I guess I am willing to wait because I am not in a hurry, but the tests will come, one day I'm just going to take a day and do all the tests over again lol


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> I know there are so many good cases for cheap, there was a storm scout refurbed on the cm site a while back for 50 bucks i think, shoulda gotten it, but I am fairly familiar with the cases, I'm just waiting for some better price drops. I guess I am willing to wait because I am not in a hurry, but the tests will come, one day I'm just going to take a day and do all the tests over again lol


Yeah just wait for a newegg deal. They usually have a really good one with a promo code on a case every 2 weeks at the least.


----------



## Captain Mayhem

awww hell. Looks like I won't be finishing the itx build until the end of next month, due to EVGA suddenly deciding it needs to redesign the stinger.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> awww hell. Looks like I won't be finishing the itx build until the end of next month, due to EVGA suddenly deciding it needs to redesign the stinger.


Could be a good thing.


----------



## chinesethunda

tempted to get the cougar case


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> tempted to get the cougar case


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=11-129-042&nm_mc=EMCPB-102012&cm_mmc=EMCPB-102012-_-PB100612-_-Item-_-11-129-042

EXTRA $15 OFF with promo code EMCJNNF28 (expires 10/10/2012)

You're welcome.


----------



## jtc10512

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrtoyotaco*
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=11-129-042&nm_mc=EMCPB-102012&cm_mmc=EMCPB-102012-_-PB100612-_-Item-_-11-129-042
> EXTRA $15 OFF with promo code EMCJNNF28 (expires 10/10/2012)
> You're welcome.


That gives you the same price of the NZXT Gamma. And the Gamma has a more airy section surrounding the CPU. It has one less fan opening at the hard drive cages, but the gamma has 2x140mm fan openings on top and a 120mm in the back. Plus the side panel has some openings over the CPU & GPU area, but you can close those off if you need to for testing etc. And if you want to go a little more expensive the market opens up for you, but this is the most airy case i know of for $40. And the gamma has 1 more hard drive bay, as well as 1 more 5.25" bay more than that antec. I honestly do think the gamma is way better than that antec, and you dont need a discount to pay $40. It's going to be that cheap 24/7 unless they put a sale on it.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146061&Tpk=gamma


----------



## chinesethunda

i've seen the gamma before, i would get it, shouda picked up the cougar case, give it a go lol
i mean as far as cases go, many of them are really similar especially around the 30-50 ish price range. the cougar was good but the MIR was kinda meh

Also i'm looking for a really good case to do tests in, i only need 2-3 hdd bays and just 1 5.25" for my cd drive if that, so honestly probably just 3-4 5.25" drive bay slots to fit a fan for testing purposes.
2 top fan slots would be nice to do multiple testing, not sure about the side vent but couldn't hard I suppose. depending on how the hard drive cages face, front intake sometimes is useless unless the hard drive cage is parallel with the case sides. the reason I'm looking for cheap ish case is so I can go to town on it with cutting and etc without feeling too bad lol


----------



## jtc10512

Ah, then the latter antec would best suit you. You can expand the vents up top with some dremel or other tool, and you can cut out part of the hard drive cage. Lots of options on a low- quality case like that. I would agree that I would feel bad cutting up my NZXT case. They make such high-quality stuff.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> i've seen the gamma before, i would get it, shouda picked up the cougar case, give it a go lol
> i mean as far as cases go, many of them are really similar especially around the 30-50 ish price range. the cougar was good but the MIR was kinda meh
> Also i'm looking for a really good case to do tests in, i only need 2-3 hdd bays and just 1 5.25" for my cd drive if that, so honestly probably just 3-4 5.25" drive bay slots to fit a fan for testing purposes.
> 2 top fan slots would be nice to do multiple testing, not sure about the side vent but couldn't hard I suppose. depending on how the hard drive cages face, front intake sometimes is useless unless the hard drive cage is parallel with the case sides. the reason I'm looking for cheap ish case is so I can go to town on it with cutting and etc without feeling too bad lol


Just get the ANTEC.


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## chinesethunda

lol the nzxt source was on sale so i got the source, I might have to cut the rear grill, now to decide if i want to test it without cutting the rear grill first just to see the differences. An in depth testing I feel will be required. Here is what I have planned, anything else I missed?

Testing for push, pull, and push/pull will be performed with the following

1. With rear grill and rear exhaust and both top exhaust

2. With rear grill and rear exhaust and both top intake

3. With rear grill and rear exhaust and rear to exhaust and top front intake

4. With rear grill and rear exhaust and top front intake only

5. With rear grill and rear exhaust and rear top exhaust only

6. Without rear grill and tests 1-5

7. Cooler rotated 90 degrees to blow out the top with all test 1-6

8. Without rear grill and tests 1-7


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## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> lol the nzxt source was on sale so i got the source, I might have to cut the rear grill, now to decide if i want to test it without cutting the rear grill first just to see the differences. An in depth testing I feel will be required. Here is what I have planned, anything else I missed?
> Testing for push, pull, and push/pull will be performed with the following
> 1. With rear grill and rear exhaust and both top exhaust
> 2. With rear grill and rear exhaust and both top intake
> 3. With rear grill and rear exhaust and rear to exhaust and top front intake
> 4. With rear grill and rear exhaust and top front intake only
> 5. With rear grill and rear exhaust and rear top exhaust only
> 6. Without rear grill and tests 1-5
> 7. Cooler rotated 90 degrees to blow out the top with all test 1-6
> 8. Without rear grill and tests 1-7


I did some of those tests already. If you are curious you can go look. It is my latest update. I tested 4 and 5 if that helps you any.

Here is what I think we all don't pay attention to. If you have a extremely efficient fan (like a DELTA) as a push on the 212 (like I do), you have to have some pretty good fans with it to decrease temps. If not, the airflow bottlenecks. I didn't see any temp decreases when testing scenario 4 and 5. One of them actually increased temps. But, if I would have had a better fan there, it couldve been the other way around.


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## chinesethunda

I don't have a delta atm, but I have enough the corsair air series fans and gt ap15s to do the testing as well as the blademasters. The reason I was going to redo the tests you did is because to keep them consistent. That way there can be a comparison for the whole thing overall. to compare the before and after effects of rear grill vs non rear grill.


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## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> I don't have a delta atm, but I have enough the corsair air series fans and gt ap15s to do the testing as well as the blademasters. The reason I was going to redo the tests you did is because to keep them consistent. That way there can be a comparison for the whole thing overall. to compare the before and after effects of rear grill vs non rear grill.


Yeah. Like I said, IMO if you have the BEST fan as a push or pull or in a P/P you aren't going to get much better temps with putting less efficient fans as intakes and exhausts. Thats what I have found. But if you have an alright fan in a P/P and better fans as intake and exhaust, the story flips.


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## chinesethunda

possibly, might just try it anyways, i mean most people don't have a huge awesome fan or could handle the loudness. so i'm testing it using what most people could easily get


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## vonss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> possibly, might just try it anyways, i mean most people don't have a huge awesome fan or could handle the loudness. so i'm testing it using what most people could easily get


And we appreciate that! Thanks both for the tests!


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## vonss

There is hardly any difference for me temp-wise with Push/Pull with my rig.


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## chinesethunda

That tends to happen sometimes, depending on how much you have overclocked and how hot your rig can get, can affect how much difference you will notice with push pull, that's why i've been telling people not to worry about push pull because it doesn't help THAT much


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## Danevul

May I ask, is there significance in the fact that when the cooler was horizontal without the rear grill, its temperatures were very close to the temperatures of the vertical mount; but on the vertical mount, the airflow was being blocked by the power supply. So is there a possibility of the temperatures actually being better on the vertical mount, if there were nothing restricting its output? I'm sorry for asking if it has already been answered.


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## chinesethunda

It's very possible that the cooler would be better vertical mounted if there was no PSU blocking the way, if you had no grill or a really thin grill at the top it would possibly be a lower temp


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