# [TPU] Radeon R9 290X Priced at $729.99 on Newegg.com



## greydor

Looks like the 780 might be the way to go then, especially if there's a price drop.


----------



## yanks8981

It says BF4 is included, so that has to add 60 dollars right there to the cost of the game, with probably some markup as well. I can see 599.99 happening when all the hype has settled.


----------



## h4rdcor3

i'm going to be very unhappy if it is $699. I was willing to go $650 because of the game bundles but $799 is out of my reach.


----------



## MaxWaves

If this card is only marginally faster than 780 and more expensive then, 780 is better option right?


----------



## whtchocla7e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaxWaves*
> 
> If this card is only marginally faster than 780 and more expensive then, 780 is better option right?


Not if you plan on playing the upcoming EA games.


----------



## Kaldari

Just when they could have really put some major pressure on Nvidia and made a decent comeback.. $730? Even with Mantle, I think they're passing up a golden opportunity to regain market share.


----------



## Panzerfury

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whtchocla7e*
> 
> Not if you plan on playing the upcoming EA games.


You don't know how much Mantle will improve the performance, nor how many games will support it in the near future. And by that time we probably have maxwell out


----------



## Grindhouse

Regardless of the price, I might change my GTX 780 SLI for a R9 290x crossfire set up. But i have to wait and see what kind of FPS gain mantle will bring in BF4.
I would be sad to sell my GTX 780s, they look so handsome.


----------



## jeffro37

I foresee everybody still buying the 780 over the 290x if this is the real price. Nvidia is a well known brand in gpu's. If true I see a huge fail for AMD and what is with them and all the money grabbing lately? They seem to be trying to overprice their top tier product and then it not selling. I would've grabbed 1 at $599, but this is stupid on their part. Just to much $ for this. If this is true, then I believe they will have to drop the price after a month when they realize they are not selling.


----------



## rdr09

so, is it really 4GB? then it should have 512 bus width?


----------



## yanks8981

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeffro37*
> 
> I foresee everybody still buying the 780 over the 290x if this is the real price. Nvidia is a well known brand in gpu's. If true I see a huge fail for AMD and what is with them and all the money grabbing lately? They seem to be trying to overprice their top tier product and then it not selling. I would've grabbed 1 at $599, but this is stupid on their part. Just to much $ for this. If this is true, then I believe they will have to drop the price after a month when they realize they are not selling.


So much wrong in this post. Nvidia is a well known brand in GPUs? AMD isnt?!? If you don't think people will buy these at whatever price they release at, you are wrong. I am pretty sure AMD's marketing team knows a little more about this than you do. Just because you and I aren't going to buy it at 700 dollars, doesn't mean there isnt a line of people waiting to buy 1-4 of them.


----------



## Sir Beregond

Well...if that's the real price then they are just stupid. I am a trigger happy upgrader (though circumstances has kept me from upgrading much the past year) but both AMD and NVIDIA can forget about it from me. Too bad. I really want a new GPU.


----------



## LTC

Shouldn't the 290X be up there with the Titan regarding performance though?


----------



## MattGordon

I guess I'll watch and see what happens to the AMd stock my father owns... I was really hoping for a cheaper card for what it could do.

This was a perfect opportunity to punch nvidia in the gut, but instead it seems to be about "Muh battlefields" and "muh mantle".


----------



## Newbie2009

Pricey.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Grindhouse*
> 
> Regardless of the price, I might change my GTX 780 SLI for a R9 290x crossfire set up. But i have to wait and see what kind of FPS gain mantle will bring in BF4.
> I would be sad to sell my GTX 780s, they look so handsome.


Why? It would pretty much be a side grade...


----------



## MattGordon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> Why? It would pretty much be a side grade...


Extra Vram for more bells and whistles is not a side grade for some.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattGordon*
> 
> Extra Vram for more bells and whistles is not a side grade for some.


True enough. Though I was specifically asking him why because he indicated that he was looking at the 290x for more fps when Mantle drops.


----------



## keikei

$729? A third 7970 is looking better for my setup then. 780 sales in trouble though. Nvidia has to counter Mantle somehow. I'm guessing a slight price drop.


----------



## Grindhouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> Why? It would pretty much be a side grade...


That's why im saying that i need to wait and see what mantle will bring. If mantle brings, let's say, a 20% FPS increase to the R9 290X over a GTX 780 or a GTX titan, it would not be a side grade.


----------



## Insan1tyOne

Honestly for $729-$749 I would just buy a 7990. Heck, the 7990 is only $699! I don't understand what is up with this serious GPU price inflation. I'd jump on it if it really was $549-$599 but not at those prices.









Edit: Also if the BF4 Edition is actually $1,200 then just buy TWO 7990's!


----------



## wstanci3

Just noticed that if you pull up the entire list of desktop GPU's and click on highest price first option, you can see that the 290x's are positioned between $720 7990 and $730 7990. Welp.


----------



## Just a nickname

That price, I knew I wouldn't buy it anyway. I was expecting something above 500$ but... 700$?!

I am looking for an upgrade from my 5870 but I don't feel like it's the time or worth the money even for the numerous 280$ 7970.


----------



## Ghoxt

Many of us have entered the /popcorn phase. This is too much, swinging from the fences from one extreme to another. Everyone or shall i say many believe they are "entitled" to get something for nothing. So much free Internet content and all. Why not 25% video card extra performance for the old lower price. Who would not love that.









I do wholeheartedly believe that these bundles would outright *Sell Out* at 730+ if arguably anywhere near the Titan performance +/- 10% in some games. And that's what's being marketed as always. Some games, and focus everyone on an optimized title BF4. keep looking at it, keep looking at it you love it, you love it. Gimme your money...thank you very much


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Grindhouse*
> 
> That's why im saying that i need to wait and see what mantle will bring. If mantle brings, let's say, a 20% FPS increase to the R9 290X over a GTX 780 or a GTX titan, it would not be a side grade.


Yeah, I get that. I was thinking of waiting for the 290x to see what it could offer... I couldn't do it. Got a gtx 780 waiting to be installed later this month.








Maybe next year the upgrade itch will hit me and by that time, more developers will start using Mantle. Then I will jump in.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yanks8981*
> 
> It says BF4 is included, so that has to add 60 dollars right there to the cost of the game, with probably some markup as well. I can see 599.99 happening when all the hype has settled.


AMD has never priced their cards higher due to a game being included. They definitely don't need to start now.

If this card is $699, it better be as fast as the Titan in DX11 and really surpass it when Mantle is tapped. Otherwise this card is overpriced by $100-$150.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yanks8981*
> 
> So much wrong in this post. Nvidia is a well known brand in GPUs? AMD isnt?!? If you don't think people will buy these at whatever price they release at, you are wrong. I am pretty sure AMD's marketing team knows a little more about this than you do. Just because you and I aren't going to buy it at 700 dollars, doesn't mean there isnt a line of people waiting to buy 1-4 of them.


Yeah, okay. See 7990 and AMD FX-9590 release prices. AMD failed both times there and had to lower prices pretty quickly.


----------



## scutzi128

All I can do is lol. AMD fails again.


----------



## villain

It seems like the people who said "if it performs better than a 780 it will be priced accordingly" were right.


----------



## Rickles

Maybe I should look into a different mobo and another 7970...


----------



## Insan1tyOne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rickles*
> 
> Maybe I should look into a different mobo and another 7970...


This is my current upgrade path. Jumping to 4770k and an Asus Mobo with room to get 1 (or 2) more 7970's.


----------



## zeddragon

Maybe the R9 290 is $599 and the R9 290x is $729.99, who knows


----------



## Dimaggio1103

What a joke. AMD has been nothing but laughable lately. Selling a FX CPU insanely high and now this? They passed up a great opportunity here.


----------



## Phenomanator53

Bad move AMD, real bad move. The 780 is already $800-900 here is Australia, this thing is gonna be priced near $1000


----------



## lacrossewacker

Could've sworn the recent narrative has been...
"oh nvidia is soo greedy, you need AMD because they don't screen over consumers!"


----------



## cam51037

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Could've sworn the recent narrative has been...
> "oh nvidia is soo greedy, you need AMD because they don't screen over consumers!"


I'm kind of rattled by the price. I thought the R9 290X would be just above GTX 780 performance, in between a 780 and a Titan, but I think $700 is a little expensive for it. I might need to rethink my R9 290X + full waterloop plan for my PC if this is true.


----------



## iamhollywood5

I would have considered $600 fair as long as it came with 3 good free games like the 7900 usually did. But $700 is crazy. The 280X is $300, and the next tier up is going to be more than double the price? and for maybe only 30% more performance?? If you aren't picky about frame time variance and heat management, you might as well just go with two 280Xs for $600 and try getting a little money back selling off 1 of the 2 game bundles.


----------



## wstanci3

*SPECULATION*
It makes me wonder about a past rumor
1. R9 290x is targeting the GTX Titan. It will perform at par or better than the Titan at stock. Whether it can perform better OC vs OC is still in the air.
2. R9 290 is targeting the GTX 780. It will perform at par with GTX 780. The price might be $599.
Even though the performance between a Titan and 780 is minimal (~10%), it makes me question if AMD is trying to pull the same thing Nvidia did with the Titan and 780. Price 290 accordingly but make the 290x cost much more for that added performance.


----------



## keikei

Smart strategy on AMD's part. They could price this card above the 780, and it still would be a better " value". Hopefully Mantle brings the goods.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Could've sworn the recent narrative has been...
> "oh nvidia is soo greedy, you need AMD because they don't screen over consumers!"


----------



## whtchocla7e

Lets be real people. If the card performs at near Titan level then why should it cost 40% less?


----------



## Darklyric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whtchocla7e*
> 
> Lets be real people. If the card performs at near Titan level then why should it cost 40% less?


because it comes with a game bundle duh. Honestly I'm not surprised and was going t
o wait for feedback from everyone on mantle before i bought in anyway as 7950 cf is not obsolete yet .

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*


Lol well played sir well played


----------



## cam51037

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whtchocla7e*
> 
> Lets be real people. If the card performs at near Titan level then why should it cost 40% less?


Benchmarks placed it just above a GTX 780, which sells for around $650. From my experiences, AMD tends to have slightly lower prices than NVIDIA, so I was expecting the R9-290X to be somewhere in the $600 area, not $700.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whtchocla7e*
> 
> Lets be real people. If the card performs at near Titan level then why should it cost 40% less?


Because it is late. Titan will be 9 months and the 780 will be 5 months old when this card launches.


----------



## ledzepp3

You really missed a shot AMD. If the card had been priced just under what the 780 is now, it would have been a hit. Considering the R9-290X has a whole extra gigabyte of VRAM, might be stupidly overclockable (not a word







), and has BF4 included with it. They had a target, and completely missed it.

Still buying one









-Zepp


----------



## LancerVI

I went to Newegg and no price was listed on any of the cards:


But then you highlight and google search and sure enough, there it is:


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Because it is late. Titan will be 9 months and the 780 will be 5 months old when this card launches.










Absolutely this. It's way late out of the gate.

I was really excited to see what they could pull off and at what price. Now, I simply don't care. Seems like they're going down the road nVidia has and I simply won't pay that price. I love the excess of our hobby as much as the next guy, but they go too far. It's unnecessary.


----------



## Newbie2009

I hate to say I told you so regarding the price, but yeah.


----------



## Rtrbtn

If the card will be faster, have an extra 1GB Vram and a 512-bit bus, and in future even have Mantle implemented, why does everyone expect it to be priced cheaper or equal to a 780? People whining here like it's their right to have better tech for cheaper than the competing, inferior product. Why would a company make a better product that the rival equivalent, and then give it away for cheaper? Amd doesn't owe you anything, it's business.


----------



## Rtrbtn

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> I went to Newegg and no price was listed on any of the cards:
> 
> 
> But then you highlight and google search and sure enough, there it is:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely this. It's way late out of the gate.
> 
> I was really excited to see what they could pull off and at what price. Now, I simply don't care. Seems like they're going down the road nVidia has and I simply won't pay that price. I love the excess of our hobby as much as the next guy, but they go too far. It's unnecessary.






But the Titan's are still a grand after being out that long, so where is the initiative for them to make new tech for much less?


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeffro37*
> 
> I foresee everybody still buying the 780 over the 290x if this is the real price. Nvidia is a well known brand in gpu's. If true I see a huge fail for AMD and what is with them and all the money grabbing lately? They seem to be trying to overprice their top tier product and then it not selling. I would've grabbed 1 at $599, but this is stupid on their part. Just to much $ for this. If this is true, then I believe they will have to drop the price after a month when they realize they are not selling.


Honestly, i was just done talking to my friend and i mentioned that if AMD dares to use a cheeky price that i would without a thought take the 780 GTX over the 290x. Especially putting my eyes on these nice overclocked versions, they seem to be GREAT! And price performance seems so much better. Mantle's of no use if the price performance just sucks. All nvidia has to do is drop the price of their 780 by a tiny bit and you've got a buyer.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rtrbtn*
> 
> If the card will be faster, have an extra 1GB Vram and a 512-bit bus, and in future even have Mantle implemented, why does everyone expect it to be priced cheaper or equal to a 780? People whining here like it's their right to have better tech for cheaper than the competing, inferior product. Why would a company make a better product that the rival equivalent, and then give it away for cheaper? Amd doesn't owe you anything, it's business.


It is not about them "owing" anyone.

1.) They are late to the game with their product. Typically people expect a cheaper product if similar performance has already been on the market for a considerable amount of time.
2.) Mantle has not been established yet, so why should that inflate the price? It shouldn't because AMD is offering it as an added advantage to getting their card.
3.) AMD needs sales, sales and more sales. Pricing is key here and I think they missed the mark.


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rtrbtn*
> 
> 
> But the Titan's are still a grand after being out that long, so where is the initiative for them to make new tech for much less?


I hear you and that's why I won't buy a 780 or Titan either. They demand way too much.

I don't care who makes what. I just want a good, flagship for less than $600. Like I said in another thread, I got a 4870x2; a dual GPU card , which was a BEAST for $550 at launch. DUAL GPU. That card was a monster and lasted forever.

Apparently that's wishful thinking for it seems those days are over.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> Honestly, i was just done talking to my friend and i mentioned that if AMD dares to use a cheeky price that i would without a thought take the 780 GTX over the 290x. Especially putting my eyes on these nice overclocked versions, they seem to be GREAT! *And price performance seems so much better.* Mantle's of no use if the price performance just sucks. All nvidia has to do is drop the price of their 780 by a tiny bit and you've got a buyer.


It is like saying hey, I would grab gtx 780 at 600 instead of R9 290X for 600$ and calling it " a good deal according to price/performance""

This never gets old.


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> It is not about them "owing" anyone.
> 
> 1.) They are late to the game with their product. Typically people expect a cheaper product if similar performance has already been on the market for a considerable amount of time.
> 2.) Mantle has not been established yet, so why should that inflate the price? It shouldn't because AMD is offering it as an added advantage to getting their card.
> 3.) AMD needs sales, sales and more sales. Pricing is key here and I think they missed the mark.










There really isn't much more to add to this. I was prepping my budget to buy a R9 290X. I guess I'll buy something for my new Impala instead.


----------



## Archngamin

Well with AMD's current trend in pricing (both CPUs and GPUs) no one can say AMD isn't just as greedy as Intel or Nvidia.


----------



## sugarhell

The bundle is with bf4 + premium so this is just 100 bucks more just for the game


----------



## corky dorkelson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> I hear you and that's why I won't buy a 780 or Titan either. They demand way too much.
> 
> I don't care who makes what. I just want a good, flagship for less than $600. Like I said in another thread, I got a 4870x2; a dual GPU card , which was a BEAST for $550 at launch. DUAL GPU. That card was a monster and lasted forever.
> 
> Apparently that's wishful thinking for it seems those days are over.


I'm with you. I hate how much these cards are costing. Top end cards are getting totally absurd in their pricing. I haven't been able to afford launch prices on nice cards since the HD4000 series.


----------



## Darklyric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really isn't much more to add to this. I was prepping my budget to buy a R9 290X. I guess I'll buy something for my new Impala instead.


20 inch blades on da impala, shot calla


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> The bundle is with bf4 + premium so this is just 100 bucks more just for the game


Premium??? I haven't seen that. It just says battlefield when I've looked.


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darklyric*
> 
> 20 inch blades on da impala, shot calla


LOL........Yeah....NO.

I just got the new 2014 Impala 2LZ....It's Baaaaaad. Was going to get the New Lexus IS250 or the BMW 325i but the Impala was just WOW. It's no longer the rental car agency trash car it used to be. It's fit, finish and drive are every bit as good as the other two. I will say it was weird paying nearly 40K for a chevy that isn't a truck.

Sorry, way OT.

Ummmm...yeah......those 290X's prices are tooo damn high!


----------



## Clockster

There is still no confirmed pricing.
Going off the BF4 pre order is not the actual price of the stand alone card.

Also guys saying AMD are late to the game...What are you smoking? Its been like this for the last 3 Generations. 6 or so months between Nvidia and AMD launching cards.
This is how it has been for ages and it will continue to be this way. It makes no sense to release a new card at the same time as your main and only rival...


----------



## Stay Puft

What a joke. Looks like i'll just wait on the 770 Ti
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> $729? A third 7970 is looking better for my setup then. 780 sales in trouble though. Nvidia has to counter Mantle somehow. I'm guessing a slight price drop.


People need to stop bringing up Mantle. There are NO benchmarks showing it compared to DX11. Amd has said BF4 was "Optimized for BF4" and it was all PR. Nvidia's cards are still faster. Until mantle benchmarks are released we need to stop praising it like its the 2nd coming


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> AMD consumers want a low price - well it's their Mantra... AMD stockholders however look at the GTX Titan which sold way beyond Nvidia's expectations...make no mistake they want a competitive price for the performance. Who wins this argument on where it should be priced?
> 
> $600 - Stockholders see it as a loss, and giving the cards away losing $300+ per card sold. AMD fans rejoice...if performance is as expected. Nvidia guys say meh. Boards implode over OC bench's.
> $700 - Stockholders grumble still... AMD consumers will insist on 3 - 5 Launch Title games at this price....to save face.
> $800 - Stockholders may be happy if numbers sold is the required amount for profit. - AMD consumers will have to eat crow. Nvidia fans might not be able to contain themselves regardless.
> 
> And as of right now we have no concrete info to go on....


I said this days ago, and apparently it still stands... Does anyone here happen to be both an AMD GPU owner and Stockholder of some considerable number of shares? I think the perspective of an actual Stockholder would be fresh to this price discussion on this round of cards and realistic pricing...

AMD is in this after all to make money. Do they have fiduciary responsibility to their Stockholders...I think so. To gamers...to some extent of the product they sell and it's ability to do what is legally stated, though way more murky on remedies if AMD doesn't live up to what they promised. Stockholders will sue you in a hot second if you leave money on the table in essence screwing them out of money. Gamers can't agree on whether the sky is blue much less presenting a class action suit lol.


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> Premium??? I haven't seen that. It just says battlefield when I've looked.


Quote:


> BTW it seems that all pre-orders are based on the Battlefield 4 edition, thus you'll be receiving the game with all extension packs and DLC.


http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/radeon_r9_290x_now_also_listed_at_newegg_for_729_99.html


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clockster*
> 
> There is still no confirmed pricing.
> Going off the BF4 pre order is not the actual price of the stand alone card.
> 
> Also guys saying AMD are late to the game...What are you smoking? Its been like this for the last 3 Generations. 6 or so months between Nvidia and AMD launching cards.
> This is how it has been for ages and it will continue to be this way. It makes no sense to release a new card at the same time as your main and only rival...


If their flagship card doesn't surpass nVidia's; they're late. You can roll your eyes all you want, but if I release a matching or slower card after someone elses launch......LATE.


----------



## Rtrbtn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> It is not about them "owing" anyone.
> 
> 1.) They are late to the game with their product. Typically people expect a cheaper product if similar performance has already been on the market for a considerable amount of time.
> 2.) Mantle has not been established yet, so why should that inflate the price? It shouldn't because AMD is offering it as an added advantage to getting their card.
> 3.) AMD needs sales, sales and more sales. Pricing is key here and I think they missed the mark.


Yeah I get ya. But I think 730 is not too much worse than people expected, and it is only the original price. And who know's what impact this card will have on the market, maybe it triggers a price war with Nvidia and one month later, the prices have already dropped. I think the R290 is being overlooked, which could shape up to be the most relevant card out there.


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/radeon_r9_290x_now_also_listed_at_newegg_for_729_99.html


Hmmmm...That could change the calculus a bit.


----------



## Clockster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> If their flagship card doesn't surpass nVidia's; they're late. You can roll your eyes all you want, but if I release a matching or slower card after someone elses launch......LATE.


Wow so you have seen benchmarks then?? Please share them.
Oh and please forward me the lotto numbers for tomorrow. Thanx in advance.


----------



## Just a nickname

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Could've sworn the recent narrative has been...
> "oh nvidia is soo greedy, you need AMD because they don't screen over consumers!"


Well, I heard a rumour saying it had two bios. One which performs slightly better than 780 and another bringing it to titan's level.
I personally think there is no real competition between nv and amd beside the sub 300$ category. They both keep increasing the high-end prices to milk us as mush as they can. 28nm been out for a while now, high-end cards shouldn't be priced more than the 550$ 7970 were launched at.


----------



## Rtrbtn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> I hear you and that's why I won't buy a 780 or Titan either. They demand way too much.
> 
> I don't care who makes what. I just want a good, flagship for less than $600. Like I said in another thread, I got a 4870x2; a dual GPU card , which was a BEAST for $550 at launch. DUAL GPU. That card was a monster and lasted forever.
> 
> Apparently that's wishful thinking for it seems those days are over.


Yeah. I really wish the 7990 didn't have it's issues, otherwise I'd be all over that. It's €520 in here Germany at the moment. I still think the risk is perhaps worth taking


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clockster*
> 
> Wow so you have seen benchmarks then?? Please share them.
> Oh and please forward me the lotto numbers for tomorrow. Thanx in advance.


There was a word I used....

IF

Did you see. See it now. Calm down brother. We're just having a conversation.


----------



## geoxile

AMD doesn't have the same brand recognition, or more importantly, loyalty as Nvidia. Even with BF4 and Never Settle included this price is a bad idea.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clockster*
> 
> Wow so you have seen benchmarks then?? Please share them.
> Oh and please forward me the lotto numbers for tomorrow. Thanx in advance.


I have the lotto numbers for the next 400 million dollar jackpot but dont worry as i'll buy everyone on the board a Titan


----------



## rationalthinking

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clockster*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> If their flagship card doesn't surpass nVidia's; they're late. You can roll your eyes all you want, but if I release a matching or slower card after someone elses launch......LATE.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow so you have seen benchmarks then?? Please share them.
> Oh and please forward me the lotto numbers for tomorrow. Thanx in advance.
Click to expand...

I reserve my judgement on GK110-400 vs 290X until I have both in hand. At stock clocks, yes 290X looks to beat it but clock for clock I have my doubts.

Have stated previously in other threads, lock them both in @ 1150 core and then run a bench clock for clock.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rtrbtn*
> 
> Yeah I get ya. But I think 730 is not too much worse than people expected, and it is only the original price. And who know's what impact this card will have on the market, maybe it triggers a price war with Nvidia and one month later, the prices have already dropped. I think the R290 is being overlooked, which could shape up to be the most relevant card out there.


Nvidia is stubborn about dropping prices. At $699-749 I don't think they will even bat an eye. And I am not sure if the Titan will ever get a price drop. It doubles as a cheap professional card, so they could just re-market it to that crowd. The 780 might get a price drop if the 290X hits at $599, but I am not even sure it will happen then.


----------



## John Shepard

Too expensive.
Besides i think i will be going with mid range cards from now on.The 680 thought me that high end cards are a waste of money.


----------



## Clockster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I have the lotto numbers for the next 400 million dollar jackpot but dont worry as i'll buy everyone on the board a Titan


You are the man lol

So your verdict? I have a confirmed order from a very good client for 2 cards coming from Europe to South Africa.
So I'll at least get to use them on launch day and see whats what. I'm sticking to my target though $650 is the max I am prepared to spend.


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a joke. Looks like i'll just wait on the 770 Ti


Lol don't lose hope just yet, nothing is official at the moment. No one knows the exact price of 290x at stand alone, the actual stock performance and so on. I'm pretty sure that you will upgrade to 290x's.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Nvidia is stubborn about dropping prices. At $699-749 I don't think they will even bat an eye. And I am not sure if the Titan will ever get a price drop. It doubles as a cheap professional card, so they could just re-market it to that crowd. The 780 might get a price drop if the 290X hits at $599, but I am not even sure it will happen then.


With this BS 290X price Nvidia could easily drop the 780 50 dollars to stick it to Amd.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clockster*
> 
> You are the man lol
> 
> So your verdict? I have a confirmed order from a very good client for 2 cards coming from Europe to South Africa.
> So I'll at least get to use them on launch day and see whats what. I'm sticking to my target though $650 is the max I am prepared to spend.


I set my price limit at 599 per card. Not buying them especially at this ludicrous price

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> Lol don't lose hope just yet, nothing is official at the moment. No one knows the exact price of 290x at stand alone, the actual stock performance and so on. I'm pretty sure that you will upgrade to 290x's.


See above


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whtchocla7e*
> 
> Lets be real people. If the card performs at near Titan level then why should it cost 40% less?


The Titan is not the price/performance yardstick of high-end GPU's.


----------



## whtchocla7e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> People need to stop bringing up Mantle.


Why? Just because it isn't out yet doesn't mean it won't deliver.
It's not like AMD pulled the mantle out of thin air. They need to recover the costs somehow.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> With this BS 290X price Nvidia could easily drop the 780 50 dollars to stick it to Amd.
> I set my price limit at 599 per card. Not buying them especially at this ludicrous price
> See above


True


----------



## Rtrbtn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Nvidia is stubborn about dropping prices. At $699-749 I don't think they will even bat an eye. And I am not sure if the Titan will ever get a price drop. It doubles as a cheap professional card, so they could just re-market it to that crowd. The 780 might get a price drop if the 290X hits at $599, but I am not even sure it will happen then.


Yeah. It will be really interesting to see how Mantle fairs, it could change the whole game. And I am also interested, but doubtful, to see how well the 290x's cooler performs, for me owning a mini ITX machine and knowing that board partners most likely won't be releasing custom coolers for a while, it could be a deal breaker if it sucks. That is where Nvidia have truly out done themselves.


----------



## Clovertail100

This is Newegg's price on a pre-release that includes BF4, so I wouldn't go assuming $730 is the price of the actual card. Newegg's markup could be pretty significant considering demand.
$60 for BF4 and $20 markup courtesy of Newegg would put it right on top of the 780 for price, and that's almost certainly the case. $599 is looking less likely, now.

If it ends up performing between a 780 and Titan, the price-match would make sense.

Now let's hope for a $499 R9 290 that can have the additional shaders unlocked via BIOS flashing.
Sign me up for that any day.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whtchocla7e*
> 
> Why? Just because it isn't out yet doesn't mean it won't deliver.
> It's not like AMD pulled the mantle out of thin air. They need to recover the costs somehow.


Pull your head from out of amd's behind. They've hyped other products that failed horribly. Remember...



So until we get "Mantle" benchmarks showing amd "Domination" you all need to stop. All "mantle" is right now is more Amd PR


----------



## Terse

nVidia won't drop prices on the 780 at all if this is the true price with vanilla BF4. Might as well go with 780 / 770Ti at this point. Maybe by black Friday the 290x drops a ton on more availability. Sadly this matches recent AMD pricing strategy; start ridiculously high, milk a few people then drop like a stone to actual supply/demand levels.


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I set my price limit at 599 per card. Not buying them especially at this ludicrous price


I feel essentially the same way +/- $30.


----------



## youra6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Terse*
> 
> Sadly this matches recent AMD pricing strategy; start ridiculously high, milk a few people then drop like a stone to actual supply/demand levels.


This pricing strategy is not exclusive to just AMD. Nvidia does it too.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> With this BS 290X price Nvidia could easily drop the 780 50 dollars to stick it to Amd.


They'd drop the price if the 780 was under threat. They're not. The R2D2 is too expensive, and NV doesn't need more market share.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *youra6*
> 
> This pricing strategy is not exclusive to just AMD. *Nvidia does it too*.


Minus the price drop later. Titan and 780 still selling for the same price they launched at.


----------



## rationalthinking

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rtrbtn*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Nvidia is stubborn about dropping prices. At $699-749 I don't think they will even bat an eye. And I am not sure if the Titan will ever get a price drop. It doubles as a cheap professional card, so they could just re-market it to that crowd. The 780 might get a price drop if the 290X hits at $599, but I am not even sure it will happen then.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. It will be really interesting to see how Mantle fairs, it could change the whole game. And I am also interested, but doubtful, to see how well the 290x's cooler performs, for me owning a mini ITX machine and knowing that board partners most likely won't be releasing custom coolers for a while, it could be a deal breaker if it sucks. That is where Nvidia have truly out done themselves.
Click to expand...

I don't believe it would drop much. Like stated, it is a cheaper professional card.

Plus... someone has to pay for those 24 - 2GB Samsung modules pasted on that card.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> They'd drop the price if the 780 was under threat. They're not. The R2D2 is too expensive, and NV doesn't need more market share.


There's a Zotac 780 for 624 on newegg so a 599 780 isnt unthinkable


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> There's a Zotac 780 for 624 on newegg so a 599 780 isnt unthinkable


Comes With Batman Arkham Origins too.

How is Zotac?? Never dared to purchase from them.


----------



## rationalthinking

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> There's a Zotac 780 for 624 on newegg so a 599 780 isnt unthinkable
> 
> 
> 
> Comes With Batman Arkham Origins too.
> 
> How is Zotac?? Never dared to purchase from them.
Click to expand...

They are a company who are AMPED when selling products.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> Comes With Batman Arkham Origins too.
> 
> How is Zotac?? Never dared to purchase from them.


Its a reference design so the card is ALL nvidia. The extended warranty is for 3 years


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> There's a Zotac 780 for 624 on newegg so a 599 780 isnt unthinkable


a $24 diff isnt much you're right, I just don't think NV will consider it given AMD's pricing. Price cuts occur when you need to introduce extra incentive for sales. A $730 AMD single gpu which (so far) is ~on par with 9 month old tech isn't much of a case for extra incentive

again,


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rationalthinking*
> 
> They are a company who are AMPED when selling products.


Ok...........What?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Its a reference design so the card is ALL nvidia. The extended warranty is for 3 years


Thanks.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> Ok...........What?
> 
> Any other thoughts?


From what I've heard:

Their products are mid-range,
Their support is mid-range,
Their resale is low

(the Amp'ed comment is directed at their custom-cooler design, which is always a "Amp! Edition")


----------



## rationalthinking

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *rationalthinking*
> 
> They are a company who are AMPED when selling products.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok...........What?
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Its a reference design so the card is ALL nvidia. The extended warranty is for 3 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...

Sorry it was a bad joke about their naming scheme.

Only time I have used any Zotac product was with a 560Ti. No problems at all and performed as expected. I havent dealt with their support so can't chime in on it.


----------



## Exostenza

Meh, R9 290 should be the best way to go. R9 290X is way too expensive.


----------



## whtchocla7e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> All "mantle" is right now is more Amd PR


Yes, the mantle is PR and PR needs to be funded, too. That's all I'm saying dude.


----------



## PontiacGTX

They way by now is hd 7950/7970cfx or wait maxwell


----------



## Terse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> Comes With Batman Arkham Origins too.
> 
> How is Zotac?? Never dared to purchase from them.


Its a reference card, so physically it should be fine. Don't know about their CS though.


----------



## MagicBox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> Honestly, i was just done talking to my friend and i mentioned that if AMD dares to use a cheeky price that i would without a thought take the 780 GTX over the 290x. Especially putting my eyes on these nice overclocked versions, they seem to be GREAT! And price performance seems so much better. Mantle's of no use if the *price performance just sucks*. All nvidia has to do is drop the price of their 780 by a tiny bit and you've got a buyer.


I don't know in what cave you have been camping but price/performance has always been AMD's turf.


----------



## Stay Puft

290X's price is 699 for the card alone. Just saw it posted in another thread


----------



## undeadhunter

Let me get this straight... the 290 is "late" and because it's late we are supposed to ignore the fact that is still a contender to the gtx 780 and possibly faster, also it's ok to bash amd for it being late and on par price wise with the competition, but it's ok to ignore the competition not slashing prices because they don't have competition? lol.... so what excuse you guys will come on for the gtx 690 still 1000$ and has the 7990 at 580$? serioulsy stop whining, the 290 rx if priced around 600$ is an ok price. Most likely the 700$ ish will be the battlefield bundle, and if you do get the premium that alone is 100$ . If you were expecting charity on a rumored 512 bit bus, 4gb vram and gtx 780 performance or better you are just daydreaming, but by all means go grab a titan at 1k


----------



## Outlawed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yanks8981*
> 
> It says BF4 is included, so that has to add 60 dollars right there to the cost of the game, with probably some markup as well. I can see 599.99 happening when all the hype has settled.


I wouldn't doubt that they are getting copies of the game for next to nothing. AMD and Dice seemed to give and take a lot love from each other with BF4, more so than any gpu/dev relationship I have seen recently at least.

So we'll see how low they can actually get it without BF4 being included.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> 290X's price is 699 for the card alone. Just saw it posted in another thread


Bam. Point proven.


----------



## Rtrbtn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *undeadhunter*
> 
> Let me get this straight... the 290 is "late" and because it's late we are supposed to ignore the fact that is still a contender to the gtx 780 and possibly faster, also it's ok to bash amd for it being late and on par price wise with the competition, but it's ok to ignore the competition not slashing prices because they don't have competition? lol.... so what excuse you guys will come on for the gtx 690 still 1000$ and has the 7990 at 580$? serioulsy stop whining, the 290 rx if priced around 600$ is an ok price. Most likely the 700$ ish will be the battlefield bundle, and if you do get the premium that alone is 100$ . If you were expecting charity on a rumored 512 bit bus, 4gb vram and gtx 780 performance or better you are just daydreaming, but by all means go grab a titan at 1k


Amen!


----------



## badtaylorx

Unfortunately these prices have more to do with quantitative easing around the world than price /performance mark.

Inflation SUCKS!!!


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> The bundle is with bf4 + premium so this is just 100 bucks more just for the game


Only webhallen in Sweden added premium to their bundle, they used an unofficial product pic with their logo on it and everything. No other retailer or AMD has any mention of premium being bundled.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *undeadhunter*
> 
> Let me get this straight... the 290 is "late" and because it's late we are supposed to ignore the fact that is still a contender to the gtx 780 and possibly faster, also it's ok to bash amd for it being late and on par price wise with the competition, but it's ok to ignore the competition not slashing prices because they don't have competition? lol.... so what excuse you guys will come on for the gtx 690 still 1000$ and has the 7990 at 580$? serioulsy stop whining, the 290 rx if priced around 600$ is an ok price. Most likely the 700$ ish will be the battlefield bundle, and if you do get the premium that alone is 100$ . If you were expecting charity on a rumored 512 bit bus, 4gb vram and gtx 780 performance or better you are just daydreaming, but by all means go grab a titan at 1k


True words!

I still won't buy a card from either that cost more than $450..


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Only webhallen in Sweden added premium to their bundle, they used an unofficial product pic with their logo on it and everything. No other retailer or AMD has any mention of premium being bundled.


http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/radeon_r9_290x_now_also_listed_at_newegg_for_729_99.html


----------



## Outlawed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> The bundle is with bf4 + premium so this is just 100 bucks more just for the game
> 
> 
> 
> Only webhallen in Sweden added premium to their bundle, they used an unofficial product pic with their logo on it and everything. No other retailer or AMD has any mention of premium being bundled.
Click to expand...

Not to mention half of the OP was used to explain exactly that lol.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/radeon_r9_290x_now_also_listed_at_newegg_for_729_99.html


And yet there is still no mention of premium. Is there something else you are trying to point out that I'm missing?


----------



## wholeeo

Wait for the eventual $200 dollar price drop if true.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/radeon_r9_290x_now_also_listed_at_newegg_for_729_99.html


Yes and their source the "nordic retailer" is the exact one I was talking about, Webhallen.

Nowhere else is premium listed and webhallen uses their own custom product pic for the bundle.


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Yes and their source the "nordic retailer" is the exact one I was talking about, Webhallen.
> 
> Nowhere else is premium listed and webhallen uses their own custom product pic for the bundle.


What? You cant read?

BTW it seems that all pre-orders are based on the Battlefield 4 edition, thus you'll be receiving the game with all extension packs and DLC. Probably guru3d boss know something


----------



## pcfoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a joke. Looks like i'll just wait on the 770 Ti
> People need to stop bringing up Mantle. There are NO benchmarks showing it compared to DX11. Amd has said BF4 was "Optimized for BF4" and it was all PR. Nvidia's cards are still faster. Until mantle benchmarks are released we need to stop praising it like its the 2nd coming


How do you know that nVidia cards are still faster when there are no benchmarks showing R290X in DX11 vs. nVidia offerings then?

Too many try to have it both ways in these threads, it is making me crack smiles every few posts...








Ridiculous points:


Don't mention mantle - do you want me to start counting how many times people mentioned "double point precision" in GK110discusions pre and post launch? How relative is it to gaming today?...yeah...
Mantle is "around the corner" by comparison, and might make some difference.
What about compute? - Another GK110 overhyped "niche" that a small fraction of those talking about it actually use it as a superiority complex feeder in these fora, actually use it or understand it. How important is compute? Well, it is for me, I dropped cash for a (used) Titan, but still, it aches knowing that a 7950 would be faster than my Titan should proper OpenCL were in my repertoire. But it is not as much as CUDA...should I say "don't mention OpenCL just like Mantle, cause it makes me sad panda" ?
If it is not faster than the competition doesn't worth existing: hmm, yeah, cause GK104 based cards were smoking 7970s so readily and were bargain buys by comparison, or the GK110 stopped selling when the 7990 came out...oh, wait, if you throw a dual GPU card in, then more 2 way arguements...right?
nVidia "recognition" / loyalty"...yeah - people are loyal to so many things for no real reason or based on rumors and superstition. Again, it is easy to have it both ways, giving credit to the side you are biased towards, and bashing w/e the "other side" does. Works in religion, works in politics, works in TV/Music/Cinema, works in OCN.
Get real.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcfoo*
> 
> How do you know that nVidia cards are still faster when there are no benchmarks showing R290X in DX11 vs. nVidia offerings then?
> 
> Too many try to have it both ways in these threads, it is making me crack smiles every few posts...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ridiculous points:
> 
> 
> Don't mention mantle - do you want me to start counting how many times people mentioned "double point precision" in GK110discusions pre and post launch? How relative is it to gaming today?...yeah...
> Mantle is "around the corner" by comparison, and might make some difference.
> What about compute? - Another GK110 overhyped "niche" that a small fraction of those talking about it actually use it as a superiority complex feeder in these fora, actually use it or understand it. How important is compute? Well, it is for me, I dropped cash for a (used) Titan, but still, it aches knowing that a 7950 would be faster than my Titan should proper OpenCL were in my repertoire. But it is not as much as CUDA...should I say "don't mention OpenCL just like Mantle, cause it makes me sad panda" ?
> If it is not faster than the competition doesn't worth existing: hmm, yeah, cause GK104 based cards were smoking 7970s so readily and were bargain buys by comparison, or the GK110 stopped selling when the 7990 came out...oh, wait, if you throw a dual GPU card in, then more 2 way arguements...right?
> nVidia "recognition" / loyalty"...yeah - people are loyal to so many things for no real reason or based on rumors and superstition. Again, it is easy to have it both ways, giving credit to the side you are biased towards, and bashing w/e the "other side" does. Works in religion, works in politics, works in TV/Music/Cinema, works in OCN.
> Get real.












All i'm saying is lets wait for some real mantle results before declaring it the 2nd coming of christ


----------



## Renairy

The nerve that AMD have, releasing a GPU that is 9 months late to the generation party.
And then pricing it at $730 USD.

*Why would anybody buy a R9 290X over a GTX 780 ?*
The 780's drivers are mature, they overclock awesome, they have a metal casing, no issues with SLI...the list goes on and on !

Honestly, i hope nobody buys any of the new R9 line.
To AMD, you screwed up and i hope consumers use their heads and go with the 780 as opposed to your silly priced counterpart.

And as for the core card alone, people please stop saying its $699, grow up and say it how it really is.... *$700*


----------



## jojoenglish85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Minus the price drop later. Titan and 780 still selling for the same price they launched at.


Its sucks because we as the consumer are losing and both companies are sitting back and laughing at us lol.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> What? You cant read?
> 
> BTW it seems that all pre-orders are based on the Battlefield 4 edition, thus you'll be receiving the game with all extension packs and DLC. Probably guru3d boss know something


Yes and that part of the article is based on their original source which they mention right at the start of the article:
Quote:


> Earlier today a Nordic etailer leaked specifications and pricing on the Radeon R9 290X, the Battlefield 4 edition that is.


That's where the premium stuff came from. Nowhere else is it listed and the product pic used by webhallen is not official. It's just the box of the BF4 edition 290X with a '+' sign, BF4 premium cover and a webhallen logo shopped next to it.

All other sites and AMD's slides say that the bundle includes "Battlefield 4 game"


----------



## Outlawed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcfoo*
> 
> How do you know that nVidia cards are still faster when there are no benchmarks showing R290X in DX11 vs. nVidia offerings then?


You're right, there is no way to know until it gets some serious benches.

I can take a good guess though and say they won't be quite up to par with the PR they are building. Otherwise they wouldn't be pulling the Xbox 1 tactics by just telling you what you want to hear while leaving out all the physical evidence.


----------



## erocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Renairy*
> 
> The nerve that AMD have, releasing a GPU that is 9 months late to the generation party.
> And then pricing it at $730 USD.
> 
> *Why would anybody buy a R9 290X over a GTX 780 ?*
> The 780's drivers are mature, they overclock awesome, they have a metal casing, no issues with SLI...the list goes on and on !
> 
> Honestly, i hope nobody buys any of the new R9 line.
> To AMD, you screwed up and i hope consumers use their heads and go with the 780 as opposed to your silly priced counterpart.


Funny, I was saying the same for Nvidia's overpriced cards when they were released. That aside I agree with you.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Renairy*
> 
> The nerve that AMD have, releasing a GPU that is 9 months late to the generation party.
> And then pricing it at $730 USD.
> 
> *Why would anybody buy a R9 290X over a GTX 780 ?*
> The 780's drivers are mature, they overclock awesome, they have a metal casing, no issues with SLI...the list goes on and on !
> 
> Honestly, i hope nobody buys any of the new R9 line.
> To AMD, you screwed up and i hope consumers use their heads and go with the 780 as opposed to your silly priced counterpart.


The 780 itself is overpriced. There is no reason to start an argument and say one side is better.


----------



## Slaughterem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcfoo*
> 
> How do you know that nVidia cards are still faster when there are no benchmarks showing R290X in DX11 vs. nVidia offerings then?
> 
> Too many try to have it both ways in these threads, it is making me crack smiles every few posts...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ridiculous points:
> 
> 
> Don't mention mantle - do you want me to start counting how many times people mentioned "double point precision" in GK110discusions pre and post launch? How relative is it to gaming today?...yeah...
> Mantle is "around the corner" by comparison, and might make some difference.
> What about compute? - Another GK110 overhyped "niche" that a small fraction of those talking about it actually use it as a superiority complex feeder in these fora, actually use it or understand it. How important is compute? Well, it is for me, I dropped cash for a (used) Titan, but still, it aches knowing that a 7950 would be faster than my Titan should proper OpenCL were in my repertoire. But it is not as much as CUDA...should I say "don't mention OpenCL just like Mantle, cause it makes me sad panda" ?
> If it is not faster than the competition doesn't worth existing: hmm, yeah, cause GK104 based cards were smoking 7970s so readily and were bargain buys by comparison, or the GK110 stopped selling when the 7990 came out...oh, wait, if you throw a dual GPU card in, then more 2 way arguements...right?
> nVidia "recognition" / loyalty"...yeah - people are loyal to so many things for no real reason or based on rumors and superstition. Again, it is easy to have it both ways, giving credit to the side you are biased towards, and bashing w/e the "other side" does. Works in religion, works in politics, works in TV/Music/Cinema, works in OCN.
> Get real.


True dat. For all we know the R9 290 is faster than a 780 and is priced at $599 and the R9 290X is faster than a titan and will be priced at $699 without BF4.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Renairy*
> 
> The nerve that AMD have, releasing a GPU that is 9 months late to the generation party.
> And then pricing it at $730 USD.
> 
> *Why would anybody buy a R9 290X over a GTX 780 ?*
> The 780's drivers are mature, they overclock awesome, they have a metal casing, no issues with SLI...the list goes on and on !
> 
> Honestly, i hope nobody buys any of the new R9 line.
> To AMD, you screwed up and i hope consumers use their heads and go with the 780 as opposed to your silly priced counterpart.
> 
> And as for the core card alone, people please stop saying its $699, grow up and say it how it really is.... *$700*


If it has 64 ROP's(latest rumor) and outperforms 780 why would AMD price it lower than 650$?


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> The 780 itself is overpriced. There is no reason to start an argument and say one side is better.


How is the 780 overpriced especially when the 290X is 699?







I still remember the time when mainstream desktop processors were 999.99 so these prices dont bother me so much.

Quad 290X rig is officially cancelled. Looks like TRI 780 or 770 Ti will be replacing them


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> How is the 780 overpriced especially when the 290X is 699?


Easy. They are both overpriced.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Renairy*
> 
> The nerve that AMD have, releasing a GPU that is 9 months late to the generation party.
> And then pricing it at $730 USD.
> 
> *Why would anybody buy a R9 290X over a GTX 780 ?*
> The 780's drivers are mature, they overclock awesome, they have a metal casing, no issues with SLI...the list goes on and on !
> 
> Honestly, i hope nobody buys any of the new R9 line.
> To AMD, you screwed up and i hope consumers use their heads and go with the 780 as opposed to your silly priced counterpart.
> 
> And as for the core card alone, people please stop saying its $699, grow up and say it how it really is.... *$700*


You just made up all of that.

None of what you state ate advantages.


----------



## keikei

If R9 290X is faster in BF4 than 780, people will go with AMD. Monetary difference won't matter too much. Thats how i see it.


----------



## MagicBox

The good thing is that I'm not under NDA and can tell you Mantle is going to bring improvements anywhere from a 15% up to a whole 50% depending on frames. Titans will be humiliated


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> If R9 290X is faster in BF4 than 780, people will go with AMD. Monetary difference won't matter too much. Thats how i see it.


Me too. BF4 is the most important game that could actually use that power.


----------



## Mygaffer

Does anyone here really expect a $729 price for the base card? We'll all know in a matter of hours.


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Quad 290X rig is officially cancelled. Looks like TRI 780 or 770 Ti will be replacing them


Awww, so sad to hear this.


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Renairy*
> 
> The nerve that AMD have, releasing a GPU that is 9 months late to the generation party.
> And then pricing it at $730 USD.
> 
> *Why would anybody buy a R9 290X over a GTX 780 ?*
> The 780's drivers are mature, they overclock awesome, they have a metal casing, no issues with SLI...the list goes on and on !
> 
> Honestly, i hope nobody buys any of the new R9 line.
> To AMD, you screwed up and i hope consumers use their heads and go with the 780 as opposed to your silly priced counterpart.
> 
> And as for the core card alone, people please stop saying its $699, grow up and say it how it really is.... *$700*


I'm mostly invested with the green team and I have to say I'm glad you don't represent all of our opinions. Your hoping that no one buys the R9...why? really, and saying their "silly priced counterpart"..







You may receive some feedback on "Silly Priced" when the Titan is not exactly average by any means price wise.... Also you came off as slightly highstrung in the post...just saying


----------



## Outlawed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> How is the 780 overpriced especially when the 290X is 699?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Easy. They are both overpriced.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I own and love my 780. I even upgraded to it from a 680. Still I will be one of the first to tell you that it is defiantly overpriced.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MagicBox*
> 
> The good thing is that I'm not under NDA and can tell you Mantle is going to bring improvements anywhere from a 15% up to a whole 50% depending on frames. Titans will be humiliated


That's cool and all but doesn't that really depend on the resources a dev decides to put into Mantle?

It's not like Mantle will help with anything out now at least (minus the bf4 beta).


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MagicBox*
> 
> The good thing is that I'm not under NDA and can tell you Mantle is going to bring improvements anywhere from a 15% up to a whole 50% depending on frames. Titans will be humiliated


While i think that claim is awesome i dont believe you without proof


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MagicBox*
> 
> The good thing is that I'm not under NDA and can tell you Mantle is going to bring improvements anywhere from a 15% up to a whole 50% depending on frames. Titans will be humiliated


If you're not under NDA,









(yay 400th post)


----------



## MagicBox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> While i think that claim is awesome i dont believe you without proof


Depends on whether you trust my crystal ball or not


----------



## youra6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> If it has 64 ROP's(latest rumor) and outperforms 780 why would AMD price it lower than 650$?


Everywhere I have seen, it will only have 44 ROPs.


----------



## hollowtek

Pricing fail to the max. Hello nvidia.


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Yes and that part of the article is based on their original source which they mention right at the start of the article:
> That's where the premium stuff came from. Nowhere else is it listed and the product pic used by webhallen is not official. It's just the box of the BF4 edition 290X with a '+' sign, BF4 premium cover and a webhallen logo shopped next to it.
> 
> All other sites and AMD's slides say that the bundle includes "Battlefield 4 game"


http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2990542&postcount=2


----------



## assaulth3ro911

I just wanted to buy a 7850... but they will probably price-fix it, I can't get any old GPU's for cheaper brand new for who knows why... So anyways, if the price goes down for the 7790+ GPU's, I'll just get one o fthose. Mantle will do the rest.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *youra6*
> 
> Everywhere I have seen, it will only have 44 ROPs.


http://www.techpowerup.com/191885/radeon-r9-290x-battlefield-4-edition-graphics-cards-up-for-pre-order.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Volcanic_Islands_.28Rx_200.29_Series


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *assaulth3ro911*
> 
> I just wanted to buy a 7850... but they will probably price-fix it, I can't get any old GPU's for cheaper brand new for who knows why... So anyways, if the price goes down for the 7790+ GPU's, I'll just get one o fthose. Mantle will do the rest.


Speaking of old GPU's. I saw someone selling a Reference 5870 1GB for 150 dollars yesterday







When i told him it wasnt worth more then 75 he cursed me out


----------



## Renairy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> I'm mostly invested with the green team and I have to say I'm glad you don't represent all of our opinions. Your hoping that no one buys the R9...why? really, and saying their "silly priced counterpart"..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You may receive some feedback on "Silly Priced" when the Titan is not exactly average by any means price wise.... Also you came off as slightly highstrung in the post...just saying


I'm hoping no one buys the R9 because it is late.
The performance gain, if any, is not going to be enough to compensate for the lengthy delay of the launch.
Everybody knows that AMD is in deep water and i'll tell you something, this launch is NOT going to save them.

Anybody with any knowledge about tech would know the 290X is a major flop *at that price*.

And in regards to the TITAN, yeah i've stated this in many threads, the TITAN is not simply a gamers solution. It's a hybrid that not only works as a workstation card but when slightly overclocked, also performs on par with a GTX 690.

Now i'm no freekin high strung fanboy mate, i'm just a realist that loves his eye candy AND $, all at the same time.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> If it has 64 ROP's(latest rumor) and outperforms 780 why would AMD price it lower than 650$?


so we should just keep climbing the price latter?

Guess all computers should be $100,000 since they're considerably faster than they were 10 years ago.

You have to weigh in that the GTX 780 gave "X" performance. The value of that "X" was $650 back in May.

Had AMD delivered that same "X" performance back then, sure, they can charge within the ballpark.

However, "X" performance depreciates in value over time as technology improves.

Performance "X" looses value, and a new (better) GPU with "Y" performance take over at the same price range.

If AMD wanted to really hurt Nvidia, and be all Pro-consumer as people like to think, then they would've uncut Nvidia at $550 for the card or $600 w/ Bf4


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> so we should just keep climbing the price latter?
> 
> Guess all computers should be $100,000 since they're considerably faster than they were 10 years ago.
> 
> You have to weigh in that the GTX 780 gave "X" performance. The value of that "X" was $650 back in May.
> 
> Had AMD delivered that same "X" performance back then, sure, they can charge within the ballpark.
> 
> However, "X" performance depreciates in value over time as technology improves.
> 
> Performance "X" looses value, and a new (better) GPU with "Y" performance take over at the same price range.
> 
> If AMD wanted to really hurt Nvidia, and be all Pro-consumer as people like to think, then they would've uncut Nvidia at $550 for the card or $600 w/ Bf4


Why don't NV drop 780's price then? What you said you only applied to AMD.

And new products aren't cheaper, sadly. 280x = 7970 and will be priced @ 300$ and you can have 7970 for cheaper now.


----------



## zealord

overwhelmingly disappointing price point.

Why would I want to take a 729$ 290X over a 780 Lightning/Classified/Asus DC2 or something.


----------



## PhantomTaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> overwhelmingly disappointing price point.
> 
> Why would I want to take a 729$ 290X over a 780 Lightning/Classified/Asus DC2 or something.


How about because it trade blows with the Titan without needing to OC? At least from what we've seen. Along with wider bit bus.


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> overwhelmingly disappointing price point.
> 
> Why would I want to take a 729$ 290X over a 780 Lightning/Classified/Asus DC2 or something.


Because Jesus would want you too?


----------



## Stuuut

What a fail


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2990542&postcount=2


+ REP. Well deserved considering the forum situation


----------



## Renairy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Why don't NV drop 780's price then? What you said you only applied to AMD.
> 
> And new products aren't cheaper, sadly. 280x = 7970 and will be priced @ 300$ and you can have 7970 for cheaper now.


Theres a balance with TECH. And in this case its between -

A. the GPU
B: the game
C: FPS

A x B =C

That balance is based on the game and how well the GPU's put out FPS.
This exactly how tech should be appraised.

Its never about a certain price point that GPU's should stick at, game engines and their complexity also play a role in having high priced GPU's.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> overwhelmingly disappointing price point.
> 
> Why would I want to take a 729$ 290X over a *780 HOF/Classified/Asus DC2* or something.


Fixed for you. The Lightning is $769 and seems to be no better than the rest.

This brings up a good point. If reference R9-290X cards do release at $699, how much are they going to ask for a lightning version if/when one is released?


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhantomTaco*
> 
> How about because it trade blows with the Titan without needing to OC? At least from what we've seen. Along with wider bit bus.


$649 Gigabyte windforce 780s already do that... Beating a Titan at stock has been achieved by a ton of different 780 models.

OC'd perf is where the Titan shows it's claws. Even classys can't match it. You need a 150-200mhz higher core clock on the 780 to beat properly OC'd Titans.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Renairy*
> 
> Theres a balance with TECH. And in this case its between.
> 
> A. the GPU
> B: the game
> C: FPS
> 
> A x B =C
> 
> That balance is based on the game and how well the GPU's put out FPS.
> This exactly how tech should be appraised.
> 
> Its never about a certain price point that GPU's should stick it, you can also blame the game engines and their complexity for having high priced GPU's.


....wat

Anyway, Newegg updated their 290x page (including the "hidden" pricing brackets)


----------



## villain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2990542&postcount=2


Interesting, so all you get with the "BF4 Edition" is a Premium key.


----------



## Legitimation

Doesn't look all that pricy, a good $60-120 of the price is coming from BF4 (I doubt they are going to be giving away premium for free). I still think a $650 and under price point is still possible when these things release after thanksgiving. Too bad I still can't preorder them in Canada yet...


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Legitimation*
> 
> Doesn't look all that pricy, a good $60-120 of the price is coming from BF4 (I doubt they are going to be giving away premium for free). I still think a $650 and under price point is still possible when these things release after thanksgiving. Too bad I still can't preorder them in Canada yet...


Read this link

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2990542&postcount=2


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Read this link
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2990542&postcount=2


So... the Never Settle Bundle will probably be more meaningful to me than Premium anyway?


----------



## PhantomTaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> $649 Gigabyte windforce 780s already do that... Beating a Titan at stock has been achieved by a ton of different 780 models.
> 
> OC'd perf is where the Titan shows it's claws. Even classys can't match it. You need a 150-200mhz higher core clock on the 780 to beat properly OC'd Titans.


They're still being overclocked last I checked. I'm saying at reference clocks a 780 doesn't beat a Titan. While at reference clocks a 290x will trade blows/beat a Titan from the benchmarks I've seen. It seems a little unfair to compare a reference model to an aftermarket one. Even then those overclocked 780s don't look like they'd be matching a 290x on the benchmarks we've seen, granted the titles are mostly those optimized via mantle from the looks of it. What I'm getting at is (unfortunately) nvidia fanboys only response right now is so it offers more performance for about the cost of a powerful aftermarket 780, so why pay? How about because it offers more performance, this isn't a complicated subject. And for reference I'm a Titan owner so this isn't one side berating the other, this is one side berating itself for poor arguments.


----------



## Renairy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> ....wat
> 
> Anyway, Newegg updated their 290x page (including the "hidden" pricing brackets)


Don't wat me young man, shouldn't you be in bed ?


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhantomTaco*
> 
> They're still being overclocked last I checked. I'm saying at reference clocks a 780 doesn't beat a Titan. While at reference clocks a 290x will trade blows/beat a Titan from the benchmarks I've seen. It seems a little unfair to compare a reference model to an aftermarket one. Even then those overclocked 780s don't look like they'd be matching a 290x on the benchmarks we've seen, granted the titles are mostly those optimized via mantle from the looks of it. What I'm getting at is (unfortunately) nvidia fanboys only response right now is so it offers more performance for about the cost of a powerful aftermarket 780, so why pay? How about because it offers more performance, this isn't a complicated subject. And for reference I'm a Titan owner so this isn't one side berating the other, this is one side berating itself for poor arguments.


How exactly is a 780 at reference clock supposed to beat a titan with more cuda cores?


----------



## rubicsphere

Looks like people in the know know more than us.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1431036/ggpu-more-game-engines-will-support-mantle/0_100

Mantle has to be somewhat decent in order for "several" engines to adopt. Also someone up there said the 780's OC great. I had two in SLi a while back and they were both absolute dogs. OC was in the 1063Mhz range and they were too hot for my liking (86C even with aggressive fans).


----------



## PhantomTaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> How exactly is a 780 at reference clock supposed to beat a titan with more cuda cores?


I think you misunderstood me. I'm saying a 780 at reference clocks doesn't beat a Titan. A 290x at reference clocks matches/beats from what we've seen, so I don't see the reason for the why not just buy a 780 argument, it seems more like fanboyism than it does logic.


----------



## Mailman377




----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Renairy*
> 
> Don't wat me young man, shouldn't you be in bed ?


Already did that. Got about 2 hours total of sleep in 30 minute increments.

I just need me some 290x

I've been waiting like 12-13 hours for it to release.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhantomTaco*
> 
> I think you misunderstood me. I'm saying a 780 at reference clocks doesn't beat a Titan. A 290x at reference clocks matches/beats from what we've seen, so I don't see the reason for the why not just buy a 780 argument, it seems more like fanboyism than it does logic.


Since we don't have actual official benches or official price points, it's hard to make any kind of comparisons at the moment. That's why I just stay out of that.


----------



## jojoenglish85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Already did that. Got about 2 hours total of sleep in 30 minute increments.
> 
> I just need me some 290x
> 
> I've been waiting like 12-13 hours for it to release.
> Since we don't have actual official benches or official price points, it's hard to make any kind of comparisons at the moment. That's why I just stay out of that.


Ditto


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhantomTaco*
> 
> I think you misunderstood me. I'm saying a 780 at reference clocks doesn't beat a Titan. A 290x at reference clocks matches/beats from what we've seen, so I don't see the reason for the why not just buy a 780 argument, it seems more like fanboyism than it does logic.


290X has turbo so its safe to assume all the leaked benchmarks have it at 1000 core while the titan is under 950 boost clock. Lets all just wait for official benchmarks and reviews before we continue to speculate.


----------



## Kaldari

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*
> 
> Looks like people in the know know more than us.


That's sig-worthy.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mailman377*


LOL yesssss


----------



## Renairy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhantomTaco*
> 
> I think you misunderstood me. I'm saying a 780 at reference clocks doesn't beat a Titan. A 290x at reference clocks matches/beats from what we've seen, so I don't see the reason for the why not just buy a 780 argument, it seems more like fanboyism than it does logic.


lol, dude trust me, if the 290x beat or matched the TITAN, AMD would of already leaked everything to help with pre-orders and hype.
Dont get caught up.


----------



## pac08

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> I said this days ago, and apparently it still stands... Does anyone here happen to be both an AMD GPU owner and Stockholder of some considerable number of shares? I think the perspective of an actual Stockholder would be fresh to this price discussion on this round of cards and realistic pricing...
> 
> AMD is in this after all to make money. Do they have fiduciary responsibility to their Stockholders...I think so. To gamers...to some extent of the product they sell and it's ability to do what is legally stated, though way more murky on remedies if AMD doesn't live up to what they promised. Stockholders will sue you in a hot second if you leave money on the table in essence screwing them out of money. Gamers can't agree on whether the sky is blue much less presenting a class action suit lol.


Seems that the guy i was talking about was right afterall Ghoxt. (Since your post was a reply to mine







)


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Already did that. Got about 2 hours total of sleep in 30 minute increments.
> 
> I just need me some 290x
> 
> I've been waiting like 12-13 hours for it to release.


Salute!


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhantomTaco*
> 
> I think you misunderstood me. I'm saying a 780 at reference clocks doesn't beat a Titan. A 290x at reference clocks matches/beats from what we've seen, so I don't see the reason for the why not just buy a 780 argument, it seems more like fanboyism than it does logic.


From what we've seen you need to flip a bios switch on the 290X to switch to the 1050MHz OC bios that's needed to match a stock Titan.

Besides, aside from marketing material for AMD or NV, who cares about "reference clocks". If stock performance is what you want then you're not going to go for a reference 780 since for the same price there are faster ones.

If OC'd performance is what you want then all we know atm is that GK110 cards OC like beasts and the 290X (assuming the leaked benches are real) will have to OC considerably higher than Tahiti in order to match the NV cards OC'd.

Honestly I'm getting the GTX 680 vibe here, why are people suddenly so interested in stock benches when with the 600 and 7000 series everyone said that they're meaningless and the radeons are a better deal due to OCing potential...


----------



## TooBAMF

Does anyone remember the HD2900? Supposed to be faster than the 8800 GTX...turned out to be a MASSIVE fail and wasn't priced accordingly either. 290X will probably be pretty good but I'm amazed at the number of people assuming it will be with NO reliable benchmarks. Rumors look more and more optimistic the closer we get to release. That is almost always how it is.

Also, remember what was hyped on the 2900? 512-bit vs the 8800 GTX's 384-bit. I hope it turns out better than that.


----------



## PhantomTaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> 290X has turbo so its safe to assume all the leaked benchmarks have it at 1000 core while the titan is under 950 boost clock. Lets all just wait for official benchmarks and reviews before we continue to speculate.


Even assuming these benchmarks are fabricated, the same argument could be used for those on the nvidia side saying why not the 780. At this point I expect it to be around the performance that's been leaked, and that still puts it very much in the foray against the 780 AT THE LEAST.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Honestly I'm getting the GTX 680 vibe here, why are people suddenly so interested in stock benches when with the 600 and 7000 series everyone said that they're meaningless and the radeons are a better deal due to OCing potential...


Al said it perfectly. This is OCN. We dont care about stock clocks.


----------



## rubicsphere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaldari*
> 
> That's sig-worthy.


Haha. Well it's true. We can all sit here and speculate to high heaven on actual price, performance, etc. Until we see anything official we should all hold judgement. ( this is OCN I know we won't) Seeing that many engines will adopt mantle is very promising because it is more work for the developer so it should be advantageous in some way at the very least.


----------



## Legitimation

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Read this link
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2990542&postcount=2


When I checked all of the gpus available on Newegg, they all had the box art of the BF4 limited edition or whatever the preorder edition is called. I can still see this coming in at the $650 price point without the BF4 edition.


----------



## xzamples

i'll stick with nvidia....never been happier since i switched over


----------



## CapnCrunch10

Well, the good news is that if price is an indication of performance like it usually is and they're pricing the card well after the 780 release, one could only assume it must do better in benchmarks at stock to justify the price/specs.

Can't wait to see real benchmarks and OC results though. This new AMD line just gets more interesting/crazy by the week.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhantomTaco*
> 
> Even assuming these benchmarks are fabricated, the same argument could be used for those on the nvidia side saying why not the 780. At this point I expect it to be around the performance that's been leaked, and that still puts it very much in the foray against the 780 AT THE LEAST.


Okay, so if the 290X is $699 and matches a 780 performance wise (clock for clock) then it stands, why not just get a 780?


----------



## wholeeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Renairy*
> 
> lol, dude trust me, if the 290x beat or matched the TITAN, AMD would of already leaked everything to help with pre-orders and hype.
> Dont get caught up.


True story, you would think they'd have new "Fixer" type material up trashing the floor with Nvidia making it be known that they are killing the competition, yet they are as quiet as a church mouse in regards to its performance/benchmarks,


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Okay, so if the 290X is $699 and matches a 780 performance wise (clock for clock) then it stands, why not just get a 780?


Because choice is good?


----------



## rubicsphere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xzamples*
> 
> i'll stick with nvidia....never been happier since i switched over


At this point I can't tell the difference. I've had every GPU under the sun from 7770's, SLi 780's, crossfire 7950's, blah, blah, blah. Nvidia vs. AMD it's all the same. Now only thing that matters is price/performance. Hence the $170 7950 was too good to pass up.


----------



## whtchocla7e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Okay, so if the 290X is $699 and matches a 780 performance wise (clock for clock) then it stands, why not just get a 780?


because clock for clock may not be as relevant for next-gen titles..


----------



## AlphaC

Disappointing.

Unless you can sell Battlefield 4 for more than $80 , why not get a $650 GTX 780 which is out now and doesn't have speculation as benchmarks?

Hopefully the R9-290 will be less disappointing price-wise.


----------



## Dart06

Still waiting...

At least I have had a lot of you lovely people to chat with all night.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CapnCrunch10*
> 
> Well, the good news is that if price is an indication of performance like it usually is and they're pricing the card well after the 780 release, one could only assume it must do better in benchmarks at stock to justify the price/specs.
> 
> Can't wait to see real benchmarks and OC results though. This new AMD line just gets more interesting/crazy by the week.


Totally this. AMD did price 7970 only 50$ above 580 even tho it did perform considerably better. If we can judge by that, 290x will be a beast. But again, let's not speculate too much. When reviews are out we will know.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Because choice is good?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whtchocla7e*
> 
> because clock for clock may not be as relevant for next-gen titles..


Oh I agree on both points. I was just replying to his post.

I have always thought that the Titan and the 780 were both overpriced. If the 290X is priced at $699 to put it's price/performance inline with Nvidia gpus, then AMD is doing it wrong. AMD needs sales right now more than Nvidia. They should price the cards according to the market share they would like to capture. If the 780 is overpriced, so is the 290X if it is released at $699+.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> Disappointing.
> 
> Unless you can sell Battlefield 4 for more than $80 , *why not get a $650 GTX 780* which is out now and doesn't have speculation as benchmarks?
> 
> Hopefully the R9-290 will be less disappointing price-wise.


b/c 290x might perform better?!

I don't get you ppl. Why not just wait, see and then decide...


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Still waiting...
> 
> At least I have had a lot of you lovely people to chat with all night.


All night?







Its noon and im at work


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> b/c 290x might perform better?!


AMD is trying to gain market share , pricing it above the GTX 780 while performing a few percentages (literally a few FPS unless it's a compute heavy title like GRID2 or COH2) is not going to help them do that.

I have hope for the R9-290 once sales start to roll in and price are less artificially inflated. Remember, the HD7950 was a much better value than the HD7970, and still is.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Totally this. AMD did price 7970 only 50$ above 580 even tho it did perform considerably better. If we can judge by that, 290x will be a beast. But again, let's not speculate too much. When reviews are out we will know.


No, not at launch. I remember being very underwhelmed by the 7970 when it was released compared to my 580. I think it was something like 15% (on average) faster than the 580.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> AMD is trying to gain market share , pricing it above the GTX 780 while performing a few percentages (literally a few FPS) is not going to help them do that.


But we don't know how much better (if at all) will it be.


----------



## PhantomTaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Oh I agree on both points. I was just replying to his post.
> 
> I have always thought that the Titan and the 780 were both overpriced. If the 290X is priced at $699 to put it's price/performance inline with Nvidia gpus, then AMD is doing it wrong. AMD needs sales right now more than Nvidia. They should price the cards according to the market share they would like to capture. If the 780 is overpriced, so is the 290X if it is released at $699+.


They need the cash more, and so they're pricing in line with nvidia for cash returns. Probably later they will lower it (is my guess)


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> No, not at launch. I remember being very underwhelmed by the 7970 when it was released compared to my 580. I think it was something like 15% (on average) faster than the 580.


10% in TPU's tests


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Still waiting...
> 
> At least I have had a lot of you lovely people to chat with all night.


You should get some sleep. The R9 290X wont be going anywhere. If they sell out, the restocks usually come within days. I'm basing this of my newegg experience with the 7970s. Either way, you'll get the card(s).


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 10% in TPU's tests


I knew it was something rather low that totally unimpressed me. Thanks


----------



## fineyoung

OMG it is now 799$ !!!


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> No, not at launch. I remember being very underwhelmed by the 7970 when it was released compared to my 580. I think it was something like 15% (on average) faster than the 580.


And it was @925MHz and could OC really high.

But my point still stands. NV is asking 350$ more (1k$) for 10% more performance


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fineyoung*
> 
> OMG it is now 799$ !!!


----------



## TooBAMF

The REAL price shouldn't be more than $700 but this should dispel the $600 (or below) rumors.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fineyoung*
> 
> OMG it is now 799$ !!!


Isn't ASUS usually the most expensive?


----------



## sugarhell

I think newegg just hype the whole thing


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> And it was @925MHz and could OC really high.
> 
> But my point still stands. NV is asking 350$ more (1k$) for 10% more performance


People seem to forget the 580 could do 950+ Core. In that review it was clocked at 772mhz


----------



## PhantomTaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> 10% in TPU's tests


You know that isn't the accurate wayt o measure how much faster it is than the 580. It should be the 580 is base 100 and the 7970 is a multiple. Closer to 13-15% eyeballing it.

EDIT NVM, I've confuzzled myself sry


----------



## Regent Square

IF R9 290X is 1K $ or even 1500$, I gonna buy 3, if it is 2000, then 2.

/


----------



## 8mm

The price makes sense when you consider that this card will be performing on par with a Titan without mantle. Once mantle games come out, these cards are going to perform like next generation cards would. Overclocking a 290x on a mantle enabled game is going to yield results far beyond a 780/titan would because each mhz increase on a 290x will be equivalent to say a 1.3 mhz increase on a titan due to mantle.

I can see a lot of pissed off people on the green side, when mantle enabled games come out and you have 7970s competing with or likely beating 780s/titans on some games. 7970 is about to get a second wind and will be looked back on as a very solid, long-term investment for those who adopted early.


----------



## TooBAMF

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8mm*
> 
> The price makes sense when you consider that this card will be performing on par with a Titan without mantle. Once mantle games come out, these cards are going to perform like next generation cards would. Overclocking a 290x on a mantle enabled game is going to yield results far beyond a 780/titan would because each mhz increase on a 290x will be equivalent to say a 1.3 mhz increase on a titan due to mantle.
> 
> I can see a lot of pissed off people on the green side, when mantle enabled games come out and you have 7970s competing with or likely beating 780s/titans on some games. 7970 is about to get a second wind and will be looked back on as a very solid, long-term investment for those who adopted early.


This could be true, which is why Mantle may be bad for competition if it can't provide some benefit for Nvidia. Mantle is great in the short-medium term for all GCN owners and has nothing to do with the value add of 290X. Long term could be another story.


----------



## wholeeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8mm*
> 
> The price makes sense when you consider that this card will be performing on par with a Titan without mantle. *Once mantle games come out, these cards are going to perform like next generation cards would. Overclocking a 290x on a mantle enabled game is going to yield results far beyond a 780/titan would because each mhz increase on a 290x will be equivalent to say a 1.3 mhz increase on a titan due to mantle.*
> 
> I can see a lot of pissed off people on the green side, when mantle enabled games come out and you have 7970s competing with or likely beating 780s/titans on some games. 7970 is about to get a second wind and will be looked back on as a very solid, long-term investment for those who adopted early.


Really? Got any proof?


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8mm*
> 
> The price makes sense when you consider that this card will be performing on par with a Titan without mantle. Once mantle games come out, these cards are going to perform like next generation cards would. Overclocking a 290x on a mantle enabled game is going to yield results far beyond a 780/titan would because each mhz increase on a 290x will be equivalent to say a 1.3 mhz increase on a titan due to mantle.
> 
> I can see a lot of pissed off people on the green side, when mantle enabled games come out and you have 7970s competing with or likely beating 780s/titans on some games. 7970 is about to get a second wind and will be looked back on as a very solid, long-term investment for those who adopted early.


As said MANY times before. We'd like some concrete benchmarks other then speculation. If Mantle can push GPU usage to say 99% across 3 and 4 cards then i'll be a huge win


----------



## Dart06

Maybe there are no preorders available in the US?


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wholeeo*
> 
> Really? Got any proof?


because AMD said so

derp


----------



## Stay Puft

Anyone else catch that the Asus 290X is a DIRECTCU II TOP card?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121806

X9290X-*DC2T*-4GD5


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Anyone else catch that the Asus 290X is a DIRECTCU II TOP card?
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121806
> 
> X9290X-*DC2T*-4GD5


Could just be an error. The picture is for the reference design.


----------



## keikei

Yay, or nay? The *XFX version* seems to have a lifetime warranty: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150675


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Could just be an error. The picture is for the reference design.


Picture doesnt mean anything. Model number states it's a DC2T


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Picture doesnt mean anything. Model number states it's a DC2T


I thought I had heard all prerelease cards are reference and that non reference wouldn't be out for a little while?


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> because AMD said so
> 
> derp


I agree with this sentiment.........

However........having said that, let me add that I am really hopeful for Mantle. It certainly won't effect my purchase decisions, but I am hopeful. I miss Glide or anything akin to "realmode like" computing. The closer the software is to my hardware, the better. This, of course, is a dumb infantryman's, layman's perspective.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> I thought I had heard all prerelease cards are reference and that non reference wouldn't be out for a little while?


I heard that as a rumor and never saw any confirmation


----------



## 8mm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wholeeo*
> 
> Really? Got any proof?


No, but it's reasonable to expect Mantle to make a significant diference. It cuts out a lot of layers needed to get down to the metal so the coding is more efficient and the games perform better. We have already seen this with consoles. The hardware in them basically sucks, but because they are coding the games to metal, they can do surprising things with the limited power.


----------



## Yungbenny911

This escalated quickly







.

I'll like to see what *Raghu* would say about this; considering he was so sure the 290x will retail at 599$







.

Oh well, i wasn't expecting AMD to make wise decisions







... They still have time to redeem themselves though. Yes, the price is ridiculous right now, but we are yet to see the performance, so we shouldn't be so quick to judge.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> 10% in TPU's tests


That's actually the 7970 being 11.1% faster, and the 580 being 10% slower, but whatevs.


----------



## wholeeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> because AMD said so
> 
> derp


----------



## Rickles

I blame consoles and AMDs project profit in that area if these prices are true.


----------



## Phelan

BTW this is a brand new AMD card that people have been waiting almost 2 years for. People will buy them, and Newegg and other companies are going to price gouge per usual according to demand. I wouldn't be surprised to see the card sell for $600-$650 next month.


----------



## Outlawed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> OC'd perf is where the Titan shows it's claws. Even classys can't match it. You need a 150-200mhz higher core clock on the 780 to beat properly OC'd Titans.


Hmm, haven't looked too much into average 780 overclocks. Going off what you are saying I believe I have a golden 780 with a 1117mhz OC. It's also just a reference model still on the factory cooling.


----------



## PhantomTaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Outlawed*
> 
> Hmm, haven't looked too much into average 780 overclocks. Going off what you are saying, the 1117mhz OC on my reference card/cooler makes it a golden one?


Not particularly. My Titans can hit 1200 on reference coolers, haven't tried since I got my ACX coolers yet though to see if i can push past that.


----------



## BigDaddyBleeder

This is the Battlefield 4 Premium bundle of the R9 290x card.

So seeing that Battlefield 4 costs $60 and the Premium addition is $50 ($110 total) then that actual cost of the R9 290X is $620.

If the leaked benches are actually how it performs I don't see a problem with that price ($620). Now if only we could get some solid benches for it.


----------



## Outlawed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigDaddyBleeder*
> 
> This is the Battlefield 4 Premium bundle of the R9 290x card.
> 
> So seeing that Battlefield 4 costs $60 and the Premium addition is $50 ($110 total) then that actual cost of the R9 290X is $620.
> 
> If the leaked benches are actually how it performs I don't see a problem with that price ($620). Now if only we could get some solid benches for it.


Christ does anyone actually bother to read the OP? Even so it's been answered so many times in this thread. Do people simply reply to the title of post these days?

The whole second part of the OP specifically addresses this. There is no premium included at the $730 price point.


----------



## FtW 420

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Outlawed*
> 
> Christ does anyone actually bother to read the OP? Even so it's been answered so many times in this thread. Do people simply reply to the title of post these days?
> 
> The whole second part of the OP specifically addresses this. There is no premium included at the $730 price point.


Off topic: A while back there was a TIM question in the extreme cooling section, it was obvious that over 50% of the people responding only read the title & posted without ever looking at the OP.


----------



## pcfoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhantomTaco*
> 
> Not particularly. My Titans can hit 1200 on reference coolers, haven't tried since I got my ACX coolers yet though to see if i can push past that.


Yeah, my Titan would do 1200~1240 on ref air too...actually - other that temps being below 38oC or so instead of fixed 78oC - getting it under an XSPC block didn't really help me do wow clocks (1270 is where I'm top without killing the RAM o/c, 1250 is the sweetspot I think).

Won't say that AMD did not screw up with the 9xxx 8cores, but in general GPU pricing is more than fair, and when it is not, price cuts or game deals are coming in fast and hard after a short time (something nVidia is very bad at doing).

Again, people "read" very biased in favor of nVidia - what would change your mind? Radeons with a $300 pricedtag beating 780s and Titan performance for $400?
How about - again - being realistic and stop being trolling for freebies?









And what if Mantle does deliver?
Wonder how much hype it will be and for how long will last speculating if nVidia "shield" (or w/e) API was out it would be all different etc...


----------



## Dart06

The 290x cards on Newegg no longer have prices associated with them.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Well, here was to hoping that pricing on flagship GPUs was going to start coming back down a little....

Though, I suppose there is still hope, considering there isn't anything official yet.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> The 290x cards on Newegg no longer have prices associated with them.


Doesn't matter. We already found them


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Doesn't matter. We already found them


No, you found the placeholders of the prices. They could end up being the real prices, but we don't know yet.

A few of the cards have moved prices twice already.

The look on people's faces if they ended up being 650$ for the bundle would be priceless.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> No, you found the placeholders of the prices. They could end up being the real prices, but we don't know yet.
> 
> A few of the cards have moved prices twice already.
> 
> The look on people's faces if they ended up being 650$ for the bundle would be priceless.


Lawl. You have been on top of this. How much sleep have you gotten?


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> No, you found the placeholders of the prices. They could end up being the real prices, but we don't know yet.
> 
> A few of the cards have moved prices twice already.
> 
> The look on people's faces if they ended up being 650$ for the bundle would be priceless.


Never going to happen. Im not sure why so many of you think prices are going to come down. All the cards on newegg still say 729.99


----------



## BinaryDemon

I wont be buying one but $729 doesn't bother me since AMD tends to drop prices fast. I do want to see some comprehensive reviews. I'm liking the price cut's I've seen on 7990's and GTX690's lately.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> Lawl. You have been on top of this. How much sleep have you gotten?


Hmm I was online when the listings first appeared on Newegg and since then, I've had my laptop auto refresh every 5 seconds on the newegg page with all of the 290x's listed. That was about 14 hours ago.

I got really drowsy at around 6am central time and started sleeping in 30 minute increments from like 6:15 to 6:45 and got back up and watch hoping they would release on an hour mark. I slept in 4 different increments and now I'm back up.

However, I only have 5 hours until I have to be at work, so I'd like them to put these up soon...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Never going to happen. Im not sure why so many of you think prices are going to come down. All the cards on newegg still say 729.99


Oh don't get it twisted. I fully expect having to pay 700+$ for it.


----------



## Bal3Wolf

You guys are blowing this way out many of you know newegg raises prices on new stuff a ton to make as much proffit as they can they know people will buy all the stock they have. They been doing it for ever gpu release i can remmber for atleast the first 2-6 weeks till enugh cards are in stock that people have more choices then they will lower the prices. Take this with a grain of salt till amd comes out with the msrp and if its 700+ then amd must be smoking something or the 290x is on par with a stock titan.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Could've sworn the recent narrative has been...
> "oh nvidia is soo greedy, you need AMD because they don't screen over consumers!"


People should know better...AMD is a business and as such stands to make money. The only moronic thing to do on their part would be to release this at that price and it not beat Titan. Otherwise their behaving as expected. We may not like or agree with it, it is what it is though. It will instill competition which is great. Though if it does beat Titan the real question is..by how much? Releasing a matching product six months late and charging premium for it isn't the best strategy to when over consumers BF4 included or not.

Wonder what all that "not competing with the ultra enthusiast" talk was all about?


----------



## sdlvx

AMD must be really confident in Mantle. This looks about right for how they execute. We saw this with 7990 too.

Release product, software isn't there, software comes later, nobody cares.

I hope they don't botch this as much as they did with the 7990 release. They should have either cancelled it or waited for the driver fixes and released it as an R series card.

Not a lot of people like to buy into the whole "the hardware is here and the software is coming!!!" thing, and for good reason. You're much more likely to get burned.

It's just a shame to see top end GPU parts creeping up like this. But I suppose AMD wants to ditch their image of a "value only" brand that gets laughed at when they release expensive CPUs. They did try the whole "VALUE VALUE!" thing and it didn't get them that much marketshare.

I just hope this doesn't trickle down to Tahiti rebrand and we don't end up seeing them more expensive. It's gonna kill used 7970 prices if that's the case, I was contemplating a cheap used one at some point.

Not sure why Nvidia and AMD are so obsessed with pushing prices on high end products up higher with their GPUs at a time when the economy is in the pooper. Not exactly the time to be selling $700+ luxury products.

EDIT:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> No, you found the placeholders of the prices. They could end up being the real prices, but we don't know yet.
> 
> A few of the cards have moved prices twice already.
> 
> The look on people's faces if they ended up being 650$ for the bundle would be priceless.
> 
> 
> 
> Never going to happen. Im not sure why so many of you think prices are going to come down. All the cards on newegg still say 729.99
Click to expand...

uh, because they always do? Even if release price is high it's become quite common practice to screw over early adopters. Look at Titan and GTX 780. 7970 released at $550 too and now you can find them for half of that after MIR.


----------



## jincuteguy

Don't worry, Nvidia will release something soon. I would never pay that much money for an Amd card. If the card is Nvidia, then I would willing to pay $700+.


----------



## CapnCrunch10

I forgot to add more thing:

I can only hope the idiots/gougers who priced the FX-9590 were not involved in pricing the 290X. Otherwise, eagerly awaiting real details, benchmarks, and OCing ability.


----------



## ASSSETS

You people have so much energy to waste. Can you just wait for official price and benchmarks, before bashing anyone?

One more thing: If everyone can adford top line product, it priced wrong.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdlvx*
> 
> EDIT:
> uh, because they always do? Even if release price is high it's become quite common practice to screw over early adopters. Look at Titan and GTX 780. 7970 released at $550 too and now you can find them for half of that after MIR.


7970 is almost 2 years old


----------



## twerk

With price cuts on the way from Nvidia, are we really going to see the new AMD cards being worse value for money? I'm super surprised at such a high starting price.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jincuteguy*
> 
> Don't worry, Nvidia will release something soon. I would never pay that much money for an Amd card. If the card is Nvidia, then I would willing to pay $700+.


Do what? That has to be the most ridiculous statement i've ever heard. So your telling me that if AMD releases a product 50% faster than Titan while considerably cheaper than Titan you wouldn't buy it, but if Nvidia released it you would? I'm missing the logic here..


----------



## RandySavage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcfoo*
> 
> Again, people "read" very biased in favor of nVidia - what would change your mind? Radeons with a $300 pricedtag beating 780s and Titan performance for $400?
> How about - again - being realistic and stop being trolling for freebies?


I'm building a new rig and I presently have an AMD videocard (and CPU). It appears that: (a) AMD has not caught up to nvidia on the runts issue (although is closing the gap); (b) crossfire support is better, although still not as hassle free as SLI; and (c) stock cooling on reference design cards is better with nvidia. In short, there is a reason why nvidia gets to command a price premium and it's contemptuous to think that nvidia purchasers are simply crazy people who like to pay more for the same product.

At the guestimated price point for the 290x, I'll be buying a 780 and not thinking twice about it. (and I plan on purchasing bf4 to boot). It's a false dilemma to say that people want AMD to price its videocards at nothing... there is a happy medium in there that would likely get me to jump (for example, 7950 xfire can be a tremendous bargain), but if the prices for comparable products are the same between the companies (or even pretty close for that matter), I'm choosing nvidia. [again, this is from someone who switches between each company, with no preference, depending on perceived value]. (hopefully this new card causes some price cuts for the 780, but at the proposed price, I'm not touching it unless the benches are pretty incredible)


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bal3Wolf*
> 
> You guys are blowing this way out many of you know newegg raises prices on new stuff a ton to make as much proffit as they can they know people will buy all the stock they have. They been doing it for ever gpu release i can remmber for atleast the first 2-6 weeks till enugh cards are in stock that people have more choices then they will lower the prices. Take this with a grain of salt till amd comes out with the msrp and if its 700+ then amd must be smoking something or the 290x is on par with a stock titan.


The big issue with the 290X being at $700 or even a little more is that you can buy Titans open box for sub $800. I have seen Titans on Newegg and Amazon for $760 to $799, and they have warranty on them!

Mantle should be great, and 1600P+ resolution for AMD should be great when they clear micro-stuttering, but those are both "should" and not "are". My point is that AMD is pretty much recovering from multiple big issues, profitability, image, performance, etc, and they really can't afford to alienate any of their customer base. They need to be doing everything they can to keep their current customer base, and attract Nvidia customers over to their side of things.

Again, time will only tell, but AMDs Hype Train is running out of steam for a lot of people right now.


----------



## Bartouille

If this is really GTX 780 performance wise then this pricing is a huge fail and AMD has become a huge money grabber just like nVidia. Not only that, this card is like what? 5 months late already? Come on... this should be 550 max -_-


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> The big issue with the 290X being at $700 or even a little more is that you can buy Titans open box for sub $800. I have seen Titans on Newegg and Amazon for $760 to $799, and they have warranty on them!
> 
> Mantle should be great, and 1600P+ resolution for AMD should be great when they clear micro-stuttering, but those are both "should" and not "are". My point is that AMD is pretty much recovering from multiple big issues, profitability, image, performance, etc, and they really can't afford to alienate any of their customer base. They need to be doing everything they can to keep their current customer base, and attract Nvidia customers over to their side of things.
> 
> Again, time will only tell, but AMDs Hype Train is running out of steam for a lot of people right now.


Begs me to ask the question. When is Maxwell expected? January?


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Begs me to ask the question. When is Maxwell expected? January?


No, 20nm isn't going to be ready for production until about June 2014 ish, I would say that would be the earliest we see anything on Maxwell.

EDIT:

I should say late Spring to early Summer 2014.

EDIT 2:

Hell, we could see Maxwell in less than a year; and Maxwell is supposed to be a huge evolution in performance, stacked VRAM, new fab tech, etc.


----------



## xentrox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *greydor*
> 
> Looks like the 780 might be the way to go then, especially if there's a price drop.


Yeah that price line is going to determine whether I will shake hands with the red team or not. It's been well over 10 years since I've owned anything AMD. Mantle looks promising but if they're going to get that greedy then they are no different than the green team and I might as well wait for the 780 to get to the $500-$550 level and snag one.


----------



## 47 Knucklehead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Begs me to ask the question. When is Maxwell expected? January?


Q1 2014 ... so January to April. More like March or April.

Unless the 290X is seriously better than the 780 performance wise (because it sure isn't power wise ... 300w vs 250w), and the price is under $650, I'll either just get a 780 or most likely wait until the 800 series comes out and get a Maxwell or pick up a 780 after the price drops or a used one (actually 2) from a person who just HAS to have the latest and greatest.


----------



## CyberWolf575

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> AMD has never priced their cards higher due to a game being included. They definitely don't need to start now.
> 
> If this card is $699, it better be as fast as the Titan in DX11 and really surpass it when Mantle is tapped. Otherwise this card is overpriced by $100-$150.
> Yeah, okay. See 7990 and AMD FX-9590 release prices. AMD failed both times there and had to lower prices pretty quickly.


The titan is $1k on newegg, so how is this card overpriced if its faster? Im confused...


----------



## rcfc89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BinaryDemon*
> 
> I wont be buying one but $729 doesn't bother me since AMD tends to drop prices fast. I do want to see some comprehensive reviews. I'm liking the price cut's I've seen on 7990's and *GTX690's* lately.


Source?


----------



## Master__Shake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fulvin*
> 
> Remember the time when flagship cards cost half of what they do today?
> 
> Pepperidge farm remembers.


i think i may wait for 20nm


----------



## jojoenglish85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Master__Shake*
> 
> i think i may wait for 20nm


What? You mean wait for even higher prices? Ya me too lol


----------



## youra6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> Source?


The 7990 has been selling for around 600 or lower.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202036&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-Desktop+Graphics+Cards-_-N82E16814202036&gclid=CPrH3vik-7kCFe1AMgodQH8AVA


----------



## Scorpion667

Quick everyone poop in a bag and ship it to AMD HQ!


----------



## di inferi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CyberWolf575*
> 
> The titan is $1k on newegg, so how is this card overpriced if its faster? Im confused...


QFT.

I love people neglecting this fact.


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *di inferi*
> 
> QFT.
> 
> I love people neglecting this fact.


Just because it's faster doesn't mean it's worth $1000.

However, maybe it is. Everything is worth what it's purchaser is willing to pay.

Just not to this guy!
<======

BTW...if you highlight and google search any of the 290X's on newegg. The price comes up in the search result from newegg. Official or no is anyones guess, just saying.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8mm*
> 
> The price makes sense when you consider that this card will be performing on par with a Titan without mantle. Once mantle games come out, these cards are going to perform like next generation cards would. Overclocking a 290x on a mantle enabled game is going to yield results far beyond a 780/titan would because each mhz increase on a 290x will be equivalent to say a 1.3 mhz increase on a titan due to mantle.
> 
> I can see a lot of pissed off people on the green side, when mantle enabled games come out and you have 7970s competing with or likely beating 780s/titans on some games. 7970 is about to get a second wind and will be looked back on as a very solid, long-term investment for those who adopted early.


Yeah, good luck with that AMD has hyped up many of their past products that failed to deliver.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Picture doesnt mean anything. Model number states it's a DC2T


Wasn't some of the original Asus top cards reference designs?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CyberWolf575*
> 
> The titan is $1k on newegg, so how is this card overpriced if its faster? Im confused...


Titan itself as a gaming card is overpriced, but 1.) Titan also doubles as a professional workstation card. 2.) This card is late. It offers performance that we can already get, so why does it deserve a price higher than the 780? 3.) Sorry to say, but it is an AMD card. Refer to the drastic and fast price drop of the 7990. It is faster than the 690, but yet AMD had to drop the prices pretty quickly because the sales were not there.

AMD doesn't need to price this card based around the Titan.They need to price it to compete with the 780 and because they need sales.

I have a question. The never settle bundles came with multiple games and did not increase the cost of the card itself. Why s everyone speculating that BF4 is driving up the cost of the card? If it in fact is and the card sales for $720, then someone could pick up a 780 and BF4 for basically the same price. The 290X should include the game as a bonus, so the game shouldn't drive the card prices up. Am I missing something?


----------



## Gexx

I just picked up a 2nd 7970, lets see how crossfire works


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Yeah, good luck with that AMD has hyped up many of their past products that failed to deliver.
> Wasn't some of the original Asus top cards reference designs?
> Titan itself as a gaming card is overpriced, but 1.) Titan also doubles as a professional workstation card. 2.) This card is late. It offers performance that we can already get, so why does it deserve a price higher than the 780? 3.) Sorry to say, but it is an AMD card. Refer to the drastic and fast price drop of the 7990. It is faster than the 690, but yet AMD had to drop the prices pretty quickly because the sales were not there.
> 
> AMD doesn't need to price this card based around the Titan.They need to price it to compete with the 780 and because they need sales.
> 
> I have a question. The never settle bundles came with multiple games and did not increase the cost of the card itself. Why s everyone speculating that BF4 is driving up the cost of the card? If it in fact is and the card sales for $720, then someone could pick up a 780 and BF4 for basically the same price. The 290X should include the game as a bonus, so the game shouldn't drive the card prices up. Am I missing something?


Well, we don't know official benchmarks yet, and we also don't have Mantle to judge fully yet, and R9 series drivers I am sure are going to need help in the beginning.

The one advantage the 290X will have over the 780 is bandwidth, and those at 1440P+ can always use that.

Still, I have to go back to what I said in a previous post; AMD is not in the position to ask Nvidia pricing, that is simply how it is. All the "fanboy" screaming between people to the side, just looking at the market itself, Nvidia is a stronger brand image. As with everything else in life, image and brand is nearly everything. AMD is still recovering from several major issues, and they need to keep that recovery moment moving forward, and to avoid another FX 9000 series pricing fiasco.


----------



## BigDaddyBleeder

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Outlawed*
> 
> Christ does anyone actually bother to read the OP? Even so it's been answered so many times in this thread. Do people simply reply to the title of post these days?
> 
> The whole second part of the OP specifically addresses this. There is no premium included at the $730 price point.


You seems very uptight about this. Some guy on a forum says that it doesn't include Battlefield so you then believe it doesn't?

Just some points that lead me to believe that this does include Battlefield.

AMD clearly stated that the Battlefield edition would be available for pre-order on October 3rd - today. They didn't say that any other version would be available, just the Battlefield one. If you actually click on the cards listed on Newegg it says that they include Battlefield. So I'm I to believe AMD and one of the largest online retailers or some guy on a forum? And yes I know that he's an Editor and Senior Moderator for TechPowerUp. Big deal - that doesn't mean he has any better insight into this than anyone else.


----------



## kpo6969

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> AMD has never priced their cards higher due to a game being included. They definitely don't need to start now.
> 
> If this card is $699, it better be as fast as the Titan in DX11 and really surpass it when Mantle is tapped. Otherwise this card is overpriced by $100-$150.
> Yeah, okay. See 7990 and AMD FX-9590 release prices. AMD failed both times there and had to lower prices pretty quickly.


This^^


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *di inferi*
> 
> QFT.
> 
> I love people neglecting this fact.


Which Fact?

Titan Cost?
or
R9 290x overpriced?
or
R9 290x being faster?

The Titan cost is the only thing we know of course... And I agree with you, whichever one you are talking about


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Well, we don't know official benchmarks yet, and we also don't have Mantle to judge fully yet, and R9 series drivers I am sure are going to need help in the beginning.
> 
> The one advantage the 290X will have over the 780 is bandwidth, and those at 1440P+ can always use that.
> 
> *Still, I have to go back to what I said in a previous post; AMD is not in the position to ask Nvidia pricing, that is simply how it is. All the "fanboy" screaming between people to the side, just looking at the market itself, Nvidia is a stronger brand image. As with everything else in life, image and brand is nearly everything. AMD is still recovering from several major issues, and they need to keep that recovery moment moving forward, and to avoid another FX 9000 series pricing fiasco*.


Yep, this. I don't want to seem like an Nvidia fanboy by saying they can't charge that much because it is not an Nvidia card, but simple fact is that Nvidia has a stronger brand name.


----------



## Oranuro

I'll stay a generation behind because I have my heart set on 7970 in crossfire come Christmas.


----------



## Stay Puft

I love when people bring up the Titans price. Titan isnt simply a gaming card. It also doubles as a cheap workstation one as well


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I love when people bring up the Titans price. Titan isnt simply a gaming card. It also doubles as a cheap workstation one as well


Without support its not a workstation card at all


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Yep, this. I don't want to seem like an Nvidia fanboy by saying they can't charge that much because it is not an Nvidia card, but simple fact is that Nvidia has a stronger brand name.


Also, people are neglecting the fact that the 780 was $650 because it was 30% faster than the 7970, lack of competition drove that price up.

However, the competition is now showing up to deliver that same performance, for the same $650+ price.... Makes no sense.

Give it a few months, that 290X will be $499.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=radeon+7990&N=-1&isNodeId=1

Speaking of which, how can AMD charge more than their 7990?


----------



## Yungbenny911

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Also, people are neglecting the fact that the 780 was $650 because it was 30% faster than the 7970, lack of competition drove that price up.
> 
> However, the competition is now showing up to deliver that same performance, for the same $650+ price.... Makes no sense.
> 
> *Give it a few months, that 290X will be $499.*
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=radeon+7990&N=-1&isNodeId=1


hahaha, exactly what i'm also thinking....


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oranuro*
> 
> I'll stay a generation behind because I have my heart set on 7970 in crossfire come Christmas.


I would expect, if supplies last till Christmas, some crazy Black Friday and Cyber Monday deals on 7970s. Right now you can buy them new for under $300, god only knows what sort of fire sale we might see on a few lucky selections.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Also, people are neglecting the fact that the 780 was $650 because it was 30% faster than the 7970, lack of competition drove that price up.
> 
> However, the competition is now showing up to deliver that same performance, for the same $650+ price.... Makes no sense.
> 
> Give it a few months, that 290X will be $499.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=radeon+7990&N=-1&isNodeId=1
> 
> *Speaking of which, how can AMD charge more than their 7990?*


Dual GPU vs Single GPU, two different markets. Also, the 290X is the "new" card, thus it will have a higher price.


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Quote:
Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie* 

I would expect, if supplies last till Christmas, some crazy Black Friday and Cyber Monday deals on 7970s. Right now you can buy them new for under $300, god only knows what sort of fire sale we might see on a few lucky selections.


> Dual GPU vs Single GPU, two different markets. Also, the 290X is the "new" card, thus it will have a higher price.


If last year's Black Friday/Cyber Monday deals were of any indication, I highly doubt the 7970 would receive that much of a price cut on those sales days. Amazon/Newegg/NCIX/TigerDirect were pretty much only severely discounting the low end spectrum of cards, not the high end.

One can always hope though!


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Also, people are neglecting the fact that the 780 was $650 because it was 30% faster than the 7970, lack of competition drove that price up.
> 
> However, the competition is now showing up to deliver that same performance, for the same $650+ price.... Makes no sense.
> 
> *Give it a few months, that 290X will be $499.
> *http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=radeon+7990&N=-1&isNodeId=1
> 
> Speaking of which, how can AMD charge more than their 7990?


Yea, 12-16 months seems like worth the wait.


----------



## Regent Square

When will pre orders go LIVE? It is October 3rd and yet only "coming soon" hangs on most sites.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Yea, 12-16 months seems like worth the wait.


The 7990 dropped from $1000 to below $699 within 3 months.

Within 8 months time, we'll have rumors of 20nm products.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> When will pre orders go LIVE? It is October 3rd and yet only "coming soon" hangs on most sites.


Your guess is probably better than mine.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> The *7990* dropped from $1000 to below $699 within 3 months.


----------



## pcfoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ASSSETS*
> 
> You people have so much energy to waste. Can you just wait for official price and benchmarks, before bashing anyone?
> 
> One more thing: If everyone can adford top line product, it priced wrong.


Get your reason and go away!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*


You missed this part:

Within 8 months time, we'll have rumors of 20nm products.

I guarantee you that price drops will be in effect way before your 12 - 16 month prediction.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> You missed this part:
> 
> Within 8 months time, we'll have rumors of 20nm products.
> 
> I guarantee you that price drops will be in effect way before your 12 - 16 month prediction.


I think you are overhyping 20nm.


----------



## Stuuut

They are really missing out on an opportunity to take away some marketshare from Nvidia.... i mean if they would have priced it a bit lower people might have taken the leap to red but with these prices a big part of the Nv users wont take the leap for a few % of performance increase over the Nv counterpart.

To be honest i think these prices are pretty stupid i guess ill bewaitiing for it to get cheaper around the 600 maybe 650 mark... but 730 hell no that means 730 euro thats like 990 dollar.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> If last year's Black Friday/Cyber Monday deals were of any indication, I highly doubt the 7970 would receive that much of a price cut on those sales days. Amazon/Newegg/NCIX/TigerDirect were pretty much only severely discounting the low end spectrum of cards, not the high end.
> 
> One can always hope though!


Except last year on Black Friday and Cyber Monday they weren't just releasing new cards, the 7000 series and 600 series were the new cards and they had no reason to Fire Sale them. They did last year do Fire Sales on the 500 series and 6000 series, my brother bought a 6970 for under $200 new in a box.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> I think you are overhyping 20nm.


How so? I've made no mention of performance, just that new cards will be out.

It's inevitable that these cards will drop in price. Quote me now, and check back later.

I understand you're buying a 290X, so don't let my opinion stop you from ordering one.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> You missed this part:
> 
> Within 8 months time, we'll have rumors of 20nm products.
> 
> I guarantee you that price drops will be in effect way before your *12 - 16* month prediction.


Well, yes. 8-9 months for Maxwell to see 100$ at max, but taking the lesson from previous generation, the price drop will be like a declining curve(aka, 100$ off wont happen immediately). Now add 1-2 months and there u have it


----------



## NateST

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Well, we don't know official benchmarks yet, and we also don't have Mantle to judge fully yet, and R9 series drivers I am sure are going to need help in the beginning.
> 
> The one advantage the 290X will have over the 780 is bandwidth, and those at 1440P+ can always use that.
> 
> Still, I have to go back to what I said in a previous post; AMD is not in the position to ask Nvidia pricing, that is simply how it is. All the "fanboy" screaming between people to the side, just looking at the market itself, Nvidia is a stronger brand image. As with everything else in life, image and brand is nearly everything. AMD is still recovering from several major issues, and they need to keep that recovery moment moving forward, and to avoid another FX 9000 series pricing fiasco.


As far as memory bandwidth goes it really depends on how high you can clock it,I have around 330ish GB/s @ 1700 I think. I can get the exact numbers when I get home, of course clock for clock the R9 will be superior. I wish we have concrete bench numbers, evga is offering 15% off coupon and I could get a classy for $600 which is quite tempting.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> How so? I've made no mention of performance, just that new cards will be out.
> 
> It's inevitable that these cards will drop in price. Quote me now, and check back later.
> 
> I understand you're buying a 290X, so don't let my opinion stop you from ordering one.


It's inevitable that new cards drop old cards prices.

There are just so many people that like to think 20nm is going to dramatically increase GPUs. I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed with the first or second iteration of 20nm.


----------



## jvolkman

Newegg is listing it for $9999.99 now. Do you guys think that's overpriced?


----------



## Terse

The first 20 nm products from either camp are likely to be small dies due to low initial yeilds, the raw performance jump from big die 28 nm to small die 20nm won't be super large, gains in efficiency will be larger though.


----------



## PsYcHo29388

I'll just quote Eminem on this...

"You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow."

And guess what you did AMD...YE BLEW IT.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Terse*
> 
> The first 20 nm products from either camp are likely to be small dies due to low initial yeilds, the raw performance jump from big die 28 nm to small die 20nm won't be super large, gains in efficiency will be larger though.


Both companies would be wise to do a test run of 20nm using mid range parts.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jvolkman*
> 
> Newegg is listing it for $9999.99 now. Do you guys think that's overpriced?


I am in anyways hope they will take two "9s" out before I buy it


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> I am in anyways hope they will take two "9s" out before I buy it


Sure. That'll be 9999.00

We took out the two 9s, as requested.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Sure. That'll be 9999.00
> 
> We took out the two 9s, as requested.


Can afford it. I am SOLD!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> I am in anyways hope they will take two "9s" out before I buy it


Prediction MSRP = $699


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Prediction MSRP = $699


I am not going with BF4 Premium. No way after BF3 Premium does it worth it. 5DLCS with game breaking patches with straight out fps "declivity" being one of the main issues.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> I am not going with BF4 Premium. No way after BF3 Premium does it worth it. 5DLCS with game breaking patches with straight out fps "declivity" being one of the main issues.


I'm saying that's without the Premium.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127757
Quote:


> Battlefield 4 game included, limited offer


Instead of getting a few games like with the other bundles, you're only getting one.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Lmao, some people say 599 is right on, but 699 is outrageous! Sure is a full 100 bucks, and some if us can go a long way with them, but come, but to call 699 outrageous, is outrageous.

At this point in time, I say GK110 is where it's at. Good drivers, good SLI scaling, good single card performance, and for 699, a Classified 780 would be a better option than a reference 290x.


----------



## Regent Square

TPU article says otherwise.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> Lmao, some people say 599 is right on, but 699 is outrageous! Sure is a full 100 bucks, and some if us can go a long way with them, but come, but to call 699 outrageous, is outrageous.
> 
> At this point in time, I say GK110 is where it's at. Good drivers, good SLI scaling, good single card performance, and for 699, *a Classified 780 would be a better option than a reference 290x*.


Ok, then go ahead, buy the card and leave this thread, We are discussing R9 290x here, not what is better. Also, it is a better option for you(not for everyone).

Now go to their owners thread and start praising your astonishing 780.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> TPU article says otherwise.


This one?
http://www.techpowerup.com/191909/radeon-r9-290x-priced-at-729-99-on-newegg-com.html


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> This one?
> http://www.techpowerup.com/191909/radeon-r9-290x-priced-at-729-99-on-newegg-com.html


yea


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> yea


Cool, glad we're on the same page.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Cool, glad we're on the same page.


You just did not see what `s on the bottom.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Ok, then go ahead, buy the card and leave this thread, We are discussing R9 290x here, not what is better. Also, it is a better option for you(not for everyone).
> 
> Now go to their owners thread and start praising your astonishing 780.


Maybe I shouldn't have said what I said. Some people are volatile, gotta blame AMD for that though.

On the bright side, all the new AMD cards below the 290x show better value than the Nvidia cards at the similar price range.


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Yeah, good luck with that AMD has hyped up many of their past products that failed to deliver.
> Wasn't some of the original Asus top cards reference designs?
> Titan itself as a gaming card is overpriced, but 1.) Titan also doubles as a professional workstation card. 2.) This card is late. It offers performance that we can already get, so why does it deserve a price higher than the 780? 3.) Sorry to say, but it is an AMD card. Refer to the drastic and fast price drop of the 7990. It is faster than the 690, but yet AMD had to drop the prices pretty quickly because the sales were not there.
> 
> AMD doesn't need to price this card based around the Titan.They need to price it to compete with the 780 and because they need sales.
> 
> I have a question. The never settle bundles came with multiple games and did not increase the cost of the card itself. Why s everyone speculating that BF4 is driving up the cost of the card? If it in fact is and the card sales for $720, then someone could pick up a 780 and BF4 for basically the same price. The 290X should include the game as a bonus, so the game shouldn't drive the card prices up. Am I missing something?


I'd have to disagree with GTX TITAN as a workstation card , unless you define workstation card as a bunch of CUDA cores to use iray/Octane/Blender on (SLI GTX 580 would be better for that and less than half the cost).

Geforces don't have the benefits of Quadro drivers so it's only good for CUDA cores, which means you might as well get cheap GK104 cards in Tri-SLI. GTX TITAN is faster than the GK104s for workstation "viewports" and not by enough to matter.

i.e. Maya it's neck and neck with GTX 680, also in Autocad , in CATIA you should be using a Quadro, in ensight/Inventor/Lightwave/Pro-E/Solidworks/NX GCN architecture _smokes_ the GTX TITAN

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-titan-opencl-cuda-workstation,3474-23.html

REAL workstation cards http://www.tomshardware.de/Workstation-Grafik-2013-Benchmarks,testberichte-241269.html

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/nvidia-quadro-amd-frirepro.html

The R9-290X might be a better workstation card.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Without support its not a workstation card at all


I'd define it as workstation application performance and drivers though.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> Maybe I shouldn't have said what I said. Some people are volatile, gotta blame AMD for that though.
> 
> On the bright side, all the new AMD cards below the 290x show better value than the Nvidia cards at the similar price range.


Bring more people to promote 780.

1) Titan wins Vally bench, Nvidia guys call it a win and justify their reason why R9 290x is inferior to 780.

2) They will ignore gaming benches and say, nah we don't care about any of that.

3) Nvidia has better drivers


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> You just did not see what `s on the bottom.


Quote:


> FAQ #1: But it says "Battlefield 4 included," so this must be the *costlier* BF4 Edition?
> Ans: *No*. BF4 Edition is a different SKU, which includes BF4 Premium key. BF4 (standard edition) is set to be already part of a Never Settle bundle that R9 290 series owners will be eligible for.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Now read it again.


----------



## Dart06

Waiting for the preorder is like the most disappointing thing ever.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Bring more people to promote 780.
> 
> 1) Titan wins Vally bench, Nvidia guys call it a win and justify their reason why R9 290x is inferior to 780.
> 
> 2) They will ignore gaming benches and say, nah we don't care about any of that.
> 
> 3) Nvidia has better drivers


780 is a beast in games and benchmarks. It's a solid, proven card. It's so good people didn't complain about the price when it launched.

AMD was supposed to beat it at a much lower price. Which is why they had everyone's attention.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Unreal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Waiting for the preorder is like the most disappointing thing ever.


----------



## Redwoodz

Sigh,all this about nothing.
BF4 LIMITED Ed.
PRE_ORDER PRICE (meaning let's gouge the guys who will pay anything to have it first)
Spanks the 780,matches the Titan.
MSRP is $599-649.

/ thread


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> 780 is a beast in games and benchmarks. It's a solid, proven card. It's so good people didn't complain about the price when it launched.
> 
> AMD was supposed to beat it at a much lower price. Which is why they had everyone's attention.


Where is :Nvidia has better drivers" part?!


----------



## BizzareRide

What about 2x 280s for $600? Aren't those 7970 equivalents?


----------



## Hardpro

AMD Gaming Facebook Page "In celebration of the upcoming launches of two of the most important announcements in PC gaming this year, we’ve worked with EA to create the AMD Radeon R9 290X Battlefield 4 Limited Edition available, online for reservation starting today with select resellers and partners. There were only 8,000 of these made so make sure to add your name to the list before they’re all gone! Recommended AMD Radeon R9 290X pricing, specs and performance will be unveiled in the coming weeks. We haven’t released pricing and won’t comment on pricing seen on some e-tail outlets."


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BizzareRide*
> 
> What about 2x 280s for $600? Aren't those 7970 equivalents?


Yes. Pick two of those up and the games that come along with. And sell the ones you don't need. Win win.


----------



## GTR Mclaren

Disgusting price.....amd and nvidia killing the market.......again


----------



## Opcode

This isn't the price of the R9 290X by itself. These are the BF4 limited edition cards. I guess you can only reserve them now and will get them when the cards officially launch.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMD*
> In celebration of the upcoming launches of two of the most important announcements in PC gaming this year, we've worked with EA to create the AMD Radeon R9 290X Battlefield 4 Limited Edition available, online for reservation starting today with select resellers and partners. There were only 8,000 of these made so make sure to add your name to the list before they're all gone! Recommended AMD Radeon R9 290X pricing, specs and performance will be unveiled in the coming weeks. We haven't released pricing and won't comment on pricing seen on some e-tail outlets.


----------



## Bal3Wolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> 780 is a beast in games and benchmarks. It's a solid, proven card. It's so good people didn't complain about the price when it launched.
> 
> AMD was supposed to beat it at a much lower price. Which is why they had everyone's attention.


do you nvida guys ever think sence its priced higher its going to go toe to toe with a titan not a 780 amd has always priced stuff according to the market undercuting nvida so that leaves me to believe its gonna be slightly slower then a titan or trade blows on most apps/games.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bal3Wolf*
> 
> do you nvida guys ever think sence its priced higher its going to go toe to toe with a titan not a 780 amd has always priced stuff according to the market undercuting nvida so that leaves me to believe its gonna be slightly slower then a titan or trade blows on most apps/games.


AMD shouldn't even be chasing the Titan. We all know the Titan is an ultra enthusiast product. AMD already stated they were not competing in the ultra enthusiast market.

I will say it again, AMD needs SALES. The way to get those is to compete with the 780. The way to get even more sales is to match or surpass the performance of the 780 as well as match or undercut the price.


----------



## Redwoodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> AMD shouldn't even be chasing the Titan. We all know the Titan is an ultra enthusiast product. AMD already stated they were not competing in the ultra enthusiast market.
> 
> I will say it again, AMD needs SALES. The way to get those is to compete with the 780. The way to get even more sales is to match or surpass the performance of the 780 as well as match or undercut the price.










So if it readily beats the 780 it should be priced what? Low-end 780's are $650 mind you...


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redwoodz*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if it readily beats the 780 it should be priced what? Low-end 780's are $650 mind you...


If AMD really wants to win over market share, they need to produce a card that stock vs stock beats a gtx 780 and price it at $599 at the most.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redwoodz*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if it readily beats the 780 it should be priced what? Low-end 780's are $650 mind you...


$650 would be the max this card should be priced even if performance matches Titan.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Where is :Nvidia has better drivers" part?!


Well Nvidia drivers for 780 have been really good. While it took AmD more than a year to fix drivers for the 7000 series. Does that tell you anything?


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> Well Nvidia drivers for 780 have been really good. While it took AmD more than a year to fix drivers for the 7000 series. Does that tell you anything?


Now it is complete. Thanks


----------



## mltms

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> Well Nvidia drivers for 780 have been really good. While it took AmD more than a year to fix drivers for the 7000 series. Does that tell you anything?


i have my 7950 from day one i dont see any issue ? and my driver didnt burn my card


----------



## TooBAMF

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mltms*
> 
> i have my 7950 from day one i dont see any issue ? and my driver didnt burn my card


Maybe this is in reference to crossfire. I want to upgrade to a dual GPU setup but AMD continues to ignore my resolution afaik.


----------



## Bal3Wolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> $650 would be the max this card should be priced even if performance matches Titan.


so your telling me if it matches or passes the titan it should be 350 cheaper that makes little sence and amd will have 5-6 games that support mantle down the road to give it a edge in atleast a few games could be more. This is all rummors right now we dont have any benchmarks that we can say are 100% real and the price is mosty a rummor also we don't know how much sites are marking the price up.


----------



## TooBAMF

Mantle should have no effect on the price of the 290X because all GCN cards support it and Mantle won't be usable until December at the earliest. If the 290X should be marked up because of Mantle, so should the 7970 and 7990, yet prices on those continue to fall.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redwoodz*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if it readily beats the 780 it should be priced what? Low-end 780's are $650 mind you...


Can get a reference 780 for 624 on newegg today


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hardpro*
> 
> AMD Gaming Facebook Page "In celebration of the upcoming launches of two of the most important announcements in PC gaming this year, we've worked with EA to create the AMD Radeon R9 290X Battlefield 4 Limited Edition available, online for reservation starting today with select resellers and partners. There were only 8,000 of these made so make sure to add your name to the list before they're all gone! *Recommended AMD Radeon R9 290X pricing, specs and performance will be unveiled in the coming weeks. We haven't released pricing and won't comment on pricing seen on some e-tail outlets*."


This is the stupidest thing I've seen all day! "Hey guys, go ahead and preorder our awesome (or so we say) new 290X but don't worry about how much its actually gonna cost you because, you know, we'll release that info later on (once all the suckers clean out the preorders)!"

Incredible!


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bal3Wolf*
> 
> so your telling me if it matches or passes the titan it should be 350 cheaper that makes little sence and amd will have 5-6 games that support mantle down the road to give it a edge in atleast a few games could be more. This is all rummors right now we dont have any benchmarks that we can say are 100% real and the price is mosty a rummor also we don't know how much sites are marking the price up.


I have already posted numerous times in this thread about the things you mentioned above, so I am not going back there. Fact is that AMD's brand image needs improving right now, so keeping prices lower to sale more products is the wise thing to do.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> This is the stupidest thing I've seen all day! "Hey guys, go ahead and preorder our awesome (or so we say) new 290X but don't worry about how much its actually gonna cost you because, you know, we'll release that info later on (once all the suckers clean out the preorders)!"
> 
> Incredible!


Perfect example of how AMD continues to screw up. Expecting people to buy a product that we have no concrete performance numbers for is ridiculous.


----------



## Ultracarpet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> I have already posted numerous times in this thread about the things you mentioned above, so I am not going back there. Fact is that AMD's brand image needs improving right now, so keeping prices lower to sale more products is the wise thing to do.
> Perfect example of how AMD continues to screw up. Expecting people to buy a product that we have no concrete performance numbers for is ridiculous.


Low price isn't the only way to gain market share...


----------



## rcfc89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *youra6*
> 
> The 7990 has been selling for around 600 or lower.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202036&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-Desktop+Graphics+Cards-_-N82E16814202036&gclid=CPrH3vik-7kCFe1AMgodQH8AVA


I know about the 7990 but all its crossfire issues with bad drivers in high resolutions makes it not attractive at all to me. I was speaking of the 690 (it was in bold) that he mentioned that dropped in price as well.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> Low price isn't the only way to gain market share...


Building superior products that are 30% faster than the competition is also another way.


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> This is the stupidest thing I've seen all day! "Hey guys, go ahead and preorder our awesome (or so we say) new 290X but don't worry about how much its actually gonna cost you because, you know, we'll release that info later on (once all the suckers clean out the preorders)!"
> 
> Incredible!


If you preorder on Newegg can you not just cancel once you see the final price?


----------



## serothis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> This is the stupidest thing I've seen all day! "Hey guys, go ahead and preorder our awesome (or so we say) new 290X but don't worry about how much its actually gonna cost you because, you know, we'll release that info later on (once all the suckers clean out the preorders)!"
> 
> Incredible!


don't forget how totally rad their audio is!


----------



## Regent Square

Then Majin SSJ Eric pre orders and says he/she bought it on a launch day aka no pre order.


----------



## Ultracarpet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Building superior products that are 30% faster than the competition is also another way.


Yes lol... Or they could innovate with things like mantle, huma, hsa....

While controversial and unproven as of yet, they are innovations. If they work, the market share will be their reward. No need for low price penetration.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> Yes lol... Or they could innovate with things like mantle, huma, hsa....
> 
> While controversial and unproven as of yet, they are innovations. If they work, the market share will be their reward. No need for low price penetration.


Oh I agree, but again AMD has had some misfires over the last few years that have hurt their brand image. Mantle could be another misfire, so that shouldn't be a factor in the pricing of the 290/290X. AMD needs to price according to performance offered compared to their on products.

280X = $299
290 = $???
290X = $699?

Appears to be some big gaps there. Nvidia has big gaps as well, but I believe part of theirs was due to being first on the market with no competition. (Price gouging) Nvidia's prices allows them some wiggle room when AMD's new gpus eventually hit the market. So what is AMD's strange pricing coming from? Looks like they are pricing their cards off of Nvidia's pricing. That didn't work out to well for them when it came to the 7990 now did it? They need to stick to their own pricing model and make sure the software side delivers what was promised.


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> Yes lol... Or they could innovate with things like mantle, huma, hsa....
> 
> While controversial and unproven as of yet, they are innovations. If they work, the market share will be their reward. No need for low price penetration.


I don't necessarily disagree, but nVidia is clearly the dominant player here. No one can deny it. I'm rooting heavily for the R9 290X because it's good for everyone; fanboi or not of either company.

Another way to gain market share is by volume. If you can match or nearly match your competitors top tier products in performance, undercut them and make money at the same time, granted, less per unit, why not do so, to gain market share and general good will among us consumers. For me, admittedly a layman, that's what I think they should do.

But as I said, what do I know.


----------



## TooBAMF

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> Yes lol... Or they could innovate with things like mantle, huma, hsa....
> 
> While controversial and unproven as of yet, they are innovations. If they work, the market share will be their reward. No need for low price penetration.


By the time Mantle is a factor, Maxwell will be out and probably be faster in everything that doesn't use Mantle. Mantle is an innovation but it isn't one that will benefit AMD across the board.


----------



## Ultracarpet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Oh I agree, but again AMD has had some misfires over the last few years that have hurt their brand image. Mantle could be another misfire, so that shouldn't be a factor in the pricing of the 290/290X. AMD needs to price according to performance offered compared to their on products.
> 
> 280X = $299
> 290 = $???
> 290X = $699?
> 
> Appears to be some big gaps there. Nvidia has big gaps as well, but I believe part of theirs was due to being first on the market with no competition. (Price gouging) Nvidia's prices allows them some wiggle room when AMD's new gpus eventually hit the market. So what is AMD's strange pricing coming from? Looks like hey are pricing their cards off of Nvidia's pricing. That didn't work out to well for them when it came to the 7990 or the FX9590 now did it? They need to stick to their own pricing model and make sure the software side delivers what was promised.


True.

If they haven't released prices yet though... there is still hope:

280x = $299
290 = $399
290x = $499


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TooBAMF*
> 
> By the time Mantle is a factor, Maxwell will be out and probably be faster in everything that doesn't use Mantle. Mantle is an innovation but it isn't one that will benefit AMD across the board.


Not to mention that if Mantle is a factor (and I hope that it is) nVidia is likely to retaliate with their own special API or what-have-you.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> Not to mention that if Mantle is a factor (and I hope that it is) nVidia is likely to retaliate with their own special API or what-have-you.


They do have their own API but it works alongside DX 11 instead of replacing it.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> True.
> 
> If they haven't released prices yet though... there is still hope:
> 
> 280x = $299
> 290 = $399
> *290x = $499
> *


Hope more, Amd`s got a middle finger for ya!


----------



## georaldc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> Not to mention that if Mantle is a factor (and I hope that it is) nVidia is likely to retaliate with their own special API or what-have-you.


Some games like Battlefield already use nvidia's special sauce (I think its called NVAPI) but it still has to work with directx


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> They do have their own API but it works alongside DX 11 instead of replacing it.


I was thinking of something a little more low level than that.

You guys remember how glide worked in dos??? Awesome! That's why I'm excited for Mantle.


----------



## Ultracarpet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> Not to mention that if Mantle is a factor (and I hope that it is) nVidia is likely to retaliate with their own special API or what-have-you.


I have been thinking about this for the last few days and sorry if it's a little off topic but... If developers are going to have to use mantle and direct x... why directx at all? Why not just mantle and (insert NVidia api here). I understand that there is always going to be people using intels igp to game, but they are not going to be able to play AAA titles on it. So if you are a developer and HAVE to use mantle AND direct x to facilitate just NVidia on those AAA games, it might as well be a direct to metal-ish api no?


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> I have been thinking about this for the last few days and sorry if it's a little off topic but... If developers are going to have to use mantle and direct x... why directx at all? Why not just mantle and (insert NVidia api here). I understand that there is always going to be people using intels igp to game, but they are not going to be able to play AAA titles on it. So if you are a developer and HAVE to use mantle AND direct x to facilitate just NVidia on those AAA games, it might as well be a direct to metal-ish api no?


Yes, that's why DirectX was so attractive. But I'm thinking back to the few titles; way back in the RealMode days that came with their own mem managers and boot disks. Ultima VII, Novalogic Commanche Overkill, Strike Commander. I know that's way back, but those titles were AMAZING. They were so because they essential came with their own "OS" boot disk to be able to run them which allowed direct communication with your hardware. Is anyone here old enough to remember these and the 3dfx glide dos titles when they first started to appear. They were amazing for their time.

Glide and now Mantle offer close to the same thing. That can be only a good thing, even if it's only for a few titles. Not everyone is going to spend the money to develop for it, but the people who do should be able to make some amazing titles.

That's my rational at least and again, I'm a layman, so what the hell do I know.


----------



## bvsbutthd101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> I have been thinking about this for the last few days and sorry if it's a little off topic but... If developers are going to have to use mantle and direct x... why directx at all? Why not just mantle and (insert NVidia api here). I understand that there is always going to be people using intels igp to game, but they are not going to be able to play AAA titles on it. So if you are a developer and HAVE to use mantle AND direct x to facilitate just NVidia on those AAA games, it might as well be a direct to metal-ish api no?


Mantle is only compatible with GCN cards making AMD 6000 series and below useless if they decided not to use directx.


----------



## Ultracarpet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> Yes, that's why DirectX was so attractive. But I'm thinking back to the few titles; way back in the RealMode days that came with their own mem managers and boot disks. Ultima VII, Novalogic Commanche Overkill, Strike Commander. I know that's way back, but those titles were AMAZING. They were so because they essential came with their own "OS" boot disk to be able to run them which allowed direct communication with your hardware. Is anyone here old enough to remember these and the 3dfx glide dos titles when they first started to appear. They were amazing for their time.
> 
> Glide and now Mantle offer close to the same thing. That can be only a good thing, even if it's only for a few titles. Not everyone is going to spend the money to develop for it, but the people who do should be able to make some amazing titles.
> 
> That's my rational at least and again, I'm a layman, so what the hell do I know.


Nah man, you aren't lame at all


----------



## OwnedINC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvsbutthd101*
> 
> Mantle is only compatible with GCN cards making AMD 6000 series and below useless if they decided not to use directx.


Seeing as this would take devs a few months/years before it was implemented, I don't see the issue. Constantly supporting old tech is part of the reason why things advance so slowly *this usually get blamed on consoles but PC is just as much to blame*


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> Nah man, you aren't lame at all


Why thank you!


----------



## bvsbutthd101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OwnedINC*
> 
> Seeing as this would take devs a few years before it was implemented, I don't see the issue. Constantly supporting old tech is part of the reason why things advance so slowly *this usually get blamed on consoles but PC is just as much to blame*


They're lots of people that don't upgrade their hardware too often. Can't just forget about people with old hardware.


----------



## bvsbutthd101

Delete


----------



## Ultracarpet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvsbutthd101*
> 
> It's a sad truth but there are lots of people that don't upgrade their hardware too often. Can't just forget about people with old hardware.


*hides 5870*

Pfff who uses old hardware????


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> $650 would be the max this card should be priced even if performance matches Titan.


Agreed, it's too late to the ball game to be priced at the same premium we've had to pay for the last six months or so.


----------



## bvsbutthd101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> *hides 5870*
> 
> Pfff who uses old hardware????


lol exactly. Of course if this ever did happen it wouldn't be for sometime but it would leave that gpu useless on games that use only mantle


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> Yes, that's why DirectX was so attractive. But I'm thinking back to the few titles; way back in the RealMode days that came with their own mem managers and boot disks. Ultima VII, Novalogic Commanche Overkill, Strike Commander. I know that's way back, but those titles were AMAZING. They were so because they essential came with their own "OS" boot disk to be able to run them which allowed direct communication with your hardware. Is anyone here old enough to remember these and the 3dfx glide dos titles when they first started to appear. They were amazing for their time.
> 
> Glide and now Mantle offer close to the same thing. That can be only a good thing, even if it's only for a few titles. Not everyone is going to spend the money to develop for it, but the people who do should be able to make some amazing titles.
> 
> That's my rational at least and again, I'm a layman, so what the hell do I know.


Hahaha...

I made reference to 3DFX's Glide API in the larger Mantle thread, no one seemed to know what I was talking about.

Glide was amazing, hopefully Mantle can pull off the same level of performance increases, as the ones with Glide were pretty huge.


----------



## drnilly007

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127757

When you look close you cant see and crossfire connectors...


----------



## bvsbutthd101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127757
> 
> When you look close you cant see and crossfire connectors...


Pretty sure they dont have the crossfire connector anymore.


----------



## OwnedINC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> *hides 5870*
> 
> Pfff who uses old hardware????


lol hopefully by the time mantle/directX replacements seen any light of day you'd upgrade, or even "side-grade"


----------



## drnilly007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvsbutthd101*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127757
> 
> When you look close you cant see and crossfire connectors...
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty sure they dont have the crossfire connector anymore.
Click to expand...

Huh? How do you do crossfire then?


----------



## thestache

Everybody complaining about the price being $100 higher than expected is ridiculous. Same thing happened with the GTX Titan and the complainers said they would sell none. Then the same happened with the GTX 780 and yet GK110 has been one of the most successful GPU launches ever.

I was under the impression this competed against the GTX Titan which was $300 more and if it in fact does compete with the GTX Titan, falls between GTX 780 and GTX Titan performance wise, then AMD has a winner here and I'll be all over it. The HD 7970 was more when it dropped so what made people think this would be different.


----------



## thestache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> Huh? How do you do crossfire then?


PCIe.


----------



## 8mm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> Not to mention that if Mantle is a factor (and I hope that it is) nVidia is likely to retaliate with their own special API or what-have-you.


That won't work for nvidia as amd got their hardware in all the consoles, which is the only reason this is going to work with Mantle. Mantle works with the GC architecture so nvidia will have to compete with a combination of excessively powerful (and hot) cards to brute force their way into relevance along with aggressive pricing. The consoles are key here, otherwise Mantle would not take off.


----------



## georaldc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> Huh? How do you do crossfire then?


Correct me if I'm wrong but crossfire works even without the bridge correct? It'll just be slower than normal.


----------



## OwnedINC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *georaldc*
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but crossfire works even without the bridge correct? It'll just be slower than normal.


The crossfire cable really doesn't have much bandwidth, the PCIe lanes between cards are far more than enough.


----------



## Opcode

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *georaldc*
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but crossfire works even without the bridge correct? It'll just be slower than normal.


With previous generations maybe, but with PCI Express 3.0 there is plenty of bandwidth to crossfire via the PCIe lanes.


----------



## Master__Shake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drnilly007*
> 
> Huh? How do you do crossfire then?


sideport


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8mm*
> 
> That won't work for nvidia as amd got their hardware in all the consoles, which is the only reason this is going to work with Mantle. Mantle works with the GC architecture so nvidia will have to compete with a combination of excessively powerful (and hot) cards to brute force their way into relevance along with aggressive pricing. The consoles are key here, otherwise Mantle would not take off.


Pretty much....

I get the feeling that the entire time everyone was mocking AMD and laughing at them, they were tucked away biding their time and setting up a huge play that would pay off hugely. That play has unfolded as AMD hardware in 3 x86 consoles, and Mantle being picked up by several developers and engines.

Should be interesting.


----------



## Opcode

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Master__Shake*
> 
> sideport


Sideports are designed for dual gpu cards that share the same PCB. What powers these newer cards is a new crossfire technology.


----------



## wickedout

I'll just stick with my 7970 and play me some BF4!


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> I have been thinking about this for the last few days and sorry if it's a little off topic but... If developers are going to have to use mantle and direct x... why directx at all? Why not just mantle and (insert NVidia api here). I understand that there is always going to be people using intels igp to game, but they are not going to be able to play AAA titles on it. So if you are a developer and HAVE to use mantle AND direct x to facilitate just NVidia on those AAA games, it might as well be a direct to metal-ish api no?


Too many GPU possibilities to use a direct to the metal only API on PCs. You'd have to have an API for each of the older AMD cards (VLIW), and GCN cards, and Fermi cards, and Kepler cards, and Intel GPUs. Which is why they went to DirectX in the first place, too much market fragmentation. In theory AMD and Nvidia could write DirectX replacements (and Intel also, I guess) but then that would basically just be OpenGL, which we also already have. If Mantle really takes off then Nvidia will have to respond somehow (possibly with a Mantle wrapper) but I don't see DirectX going anywhere anytime soon.


----------



## jprovido

nvidia AND amd sucks. what's with these prices? I remember when I bought my HD5970 the performance blew everything away even after a number of generations it was still the fastest and it was like 550USD from where im from. now we have to pay 699 for a single card? come on!


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Too many GPU possibilities to use a direct to the metal only API on PCs. You'd have to have an API for each of the older AMD cards (VLIW), and GCN cards, and Fermi cards, and Kepler cards, and Intel GPUs. Which is why they went to DirectX in the first place, too much market fragmentation. In theory AMD and Nvidia could write DirectX replacements (and Intel also, I guess) but then that would basically just be OpenGL, which we also already have. If Mantle really takes off then Nvidia will have to respond somehow (possibly with a Mantle wrapper) but I don't see DirectX going anywhere anytime soon.


You're right about the fragmentation and like I said before, not everyone is going to do it though it should be mitigated by the fact that AMD hardware is in all the consoles.

But for the developers that do....boy, those were GREAT GAMES......GREAT! We should be able to expect some cool things.


----------



## Yvese

I don't see Nvidia's version of Mantle taking off if they ever decide to make one. AMD has the dev support since their hardware is already in the consoles.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jprovido*
> 
> nvidia AND amd sucks. what's with these prices? I remember when I bought my HD5970 the performance blew everything away even after a number of generations it was still the fastest and it was like 550USD from where im from. now we have to pay 699 for a single card? come on!


I don't feel bad for anyone paying 699 for a graphics card. It's an expensive hobby. A 7950 or 670 still offer great performance at a good price. People don't have to spend a lot of money to enjoy gaming, some just choose to fork out some cash because they believe its worth it to them.

My games played well on a 680, but I still wanted a Titan and wasn't happy until I owned one for my own satisfaction. Was it worth it? Absolutely. In fact I was so happy that I bought a second one.

No one is forcing anybody to buy the 290x. There are no exclusive games/ software for the 290x, that would make people wanna buy it. Want the best AMD card? Better have that wallet ready then. If not, there are cheaper alternatives.


----------



## ozlay

this is pre order price of $730 i wonder how much newegg is marking it up for pre-order ima guess thats where the 30 extra comes in so the card is around $699 which isnt too badly priced the gtx 780 cost around $650 so if this card beats the 780 for $50 then i find it to be a good deal plus this card comes with BF4 which is a big tittle which makes it even more worth it and the games that come with the 780 are garbage i think not really big tittles and are actually pretty crappy games from what iv seen most come with batman lol i dont know of anyone that plays that game so for a price of $700 its a good deal im not sure how much the 780 cost at pre-order but i am going to guess it was about $700 also so im not sure why people are compalining about price it beats the 780 for $50 more i think its worth it and knowing amd it probably overclocks like crazy so titan levels for only $700


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> I don't feel bad for anyone paying 699 for a graphics card. It's an expensive hobby. A 7950 or 670 still offer great performance at a good price. People don't have to spend a lot of money to enjoy gaming, some just choose to fork out some cash because they believe its worth it to them.
> 
> My games played well on a 680, but I still wanted a Titan and wasn't happy until I owned one for my own satisfaction. Was it worth it? Absolutely. In fact I was so happy that I bought a second one.
> 
> No one is forcing anybody to buy the 290x. There are no exclusive games/ software for the 290x, that would make people wanna buy it. Want the best AMD card? Better have that wallet ready then. If not, there are cheaper alternatives.


You cant compare a titan's price with other cards.. Titan buyers are the minority.


----------



## ozlay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Opcode*
> 
> Sideports are designed for dual gpu cards that share the same PCB. What powers these newer cards is a new crossfire technology.


wonder what they mean by "no performance penalty vs external bridge" does that mean it scales better or does that mean it scales the same as with a bridge


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozlay*
> 
> wonder what they mean by "no performance penalty vs external bridge" does that mean it scales better or does that mean it scales the same as with a bridge


scales same as with a bridge


----------



## Xinoxide

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozlay*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Opcode*
> 
> Sideports are designed for dual gpu cards that share the same PCB. What powers these newer cards is a new crossfire technology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wonder what they mean by "no performance penalty vs external bridge" does that mean it scales better or does that mean it scales the same as with a bridge
Click to expand...

Wow I messed this post up like twice.

I see what you did there...


----------



## S.M.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> AMD shouldn't even be chasing the Titan. We all know the Titan is an ultra enthusiast product. AMD already stated they were not competing in the ultra enthusiast market.
> 
> I will say it again, AMD needs SALES. The way to get those is to compete with the 780. The way to get even more sales is to match or surpass the performance of the 780 as well as match or undercut the price.


AMD shouldn't be chasing the titan, yes. They should be trying to extend a lead.

Sales for AMD are useless without profit margins. AMD doesn't benefit from already sold units as they do not have any paid services. Market share is only a advertising and sales tool for companies like AMD and Nvidia.

The best way for AMD to make money is to have something worth the most money.


----------



## Stay Puft

I was right. The Asus model listed on newegg is the non reference DC2T

http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-r9-290x-listed-newegg-72999-asus-r9-290x-directcu-ii-top-spotted/


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozlay*
> 
> this is pre order price of $730 i wonder how much newegg is marking it up for pre-order ima guess thats where the 30 extra comes in so the card is around $699 which isnt too badly priced the gtx 780 cost around $650 so if this card beats the 780 for $50 then i find it to be a good deal plus this card comes with BF4 which is a big tittle which makes it even more worth it and the games that come with the 780 are garbage i think not really big tittles and are actually pretty crappy games from what iv seen most come with batman lol i dont know of anyone that plays that game so for a price of $700 its a good deal im not sure how much the 780 cost at pre-order but i am going to guess it was about $700 also so im not sure why people are compalining about price it beats the 780 for $50 more i think its worth it and knowing amd it probably overclocks like crazy so titan levels for only $700


you don't know anyone that plays the last two batman games? Have yeour been living under a rock


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I was right. The Asus model listed on newegg is the non reference DC2T
> 
> http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-r9-290x-listed-newegg-72999-asus-r9-290x-directcu-ii-top-spotted/


I popped over to rog.asus.com to see if there was anything posted about the R9s, and it appears their website was hacked.


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> [quote name="Ultracarpet" url="/t/1431059/tpu-radeon-r9-290x-priced-at-729-99-on-newegg-com/350#post_20917497"]I have been thinking about this for the last few days and sorry if it's a little off topic but... If developers are going to have to use mantle and direct x... why directx at all? Why not just mantle and (insert NVidia api here). I understand that there is always going to be people using intels igp to game, but they are not going to be able to play AAA titles on it. So if you are a developer and HAVE to use mantle AND direct x to facilitate just NVidia on those AAA games, it might as well be a direct to metal-ish api no?


Too many GPU possibilities to use a direct to the metal only API on PCs. You'd have to have an API for each of the older AMD cards (VLIW), and GCN cards, and Fermi cards, and Kepler cards, and Intel GPUs. Which is why they went to DirectX in the first place, too much market fragmentation. In theory AMD and Nvidia could write DirectX replacements (and Intel also, I guess) but then that would basically just be OpenGL, which we also already have. If Mantle really takes off then Nvidia will have to respond somehow (possibly with a Mantle wrapper) but I don't see DirectX going anywhere anytime soon.[/QUOTE]
if mantle takes off, and is using gcn architecture, wouldn't they mean AMD would have to keep using the same architecture in the future for it to be compatible, I'd imagine after a few more releases(I.e. 2-3 years) gcn will be getting a bit long in the tooth


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

I
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> You cant compare a titan's price with other cards.. Titan buyers are the minority.


m not comparing. Just a statement. People who really want a 290X are gonna get it no matter what.


----------



## raptor15sc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> I popped over to rog.asus.com to see if there was anything posted about the R9s, and it appears their website was hacked.


How so? What did you see?

Edit: Never mind.


----------



## Durquavian

Also I went in search of confirmation of price and found this https://www.facebook.com/AMDGaming/posts/535192336553258 Yeah trust me I hate facebook but it was the first I could find with something said of price.


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> How so? What did you see?
> 
> Edit: Never mind.


WOW


----------



## fateswarm

Called it. When everyone was dreaming prices for the X, I said hold your horses. They may price the X a "Titan" and 290 to be the reasonably priced model.


----------



## kot0005

Tweet from some AMD dude https://twitter.com/amd_roy/status/385925688278011904


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

You sure did lol.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Called it. When everyone was dreaming prices for the X, I said hold your horses. They may price the X a "Titan" and 290 to be the reasonably priced model.


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Called it. When everyone was dreaming prices for the X, I said hold your horses. They may price the X a "Titan" and 290 to be the reasonably priced model.


Actually you aint called jack. No price confirmation has come down. So far all there is are random prices splattered all over.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *badtaylorx*
> 
> Unfortunately these prices have more to do with quantitative easing around the world than price /performance mark.
> 
> Inflation SUCKS!!!


You are on the right track. Though I suspect it's mainly the energy crisis that is the real source, in basic Physics energy means Work and in basic Economics work means Wealth. In this case those cards (and the GK110) have a bigger die too so the manufacturing may be at least double the cost since they take more space on the wafer and they fail more often.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> If it has 64 ROP's(latest rumor) and outperforms 780 why would AMD price it lower than 650$?


Because not even NVIDIA likes the $650 price. It is obvious from various indications that the sweet spot nowadays for the bulk of profits is around $400 products. It's simply not that desireable for a non-Professional to get $600+ cards for various reasons (they are children, they are on a budget, there is still a global crisis, the rich people are fewer) and in all likelihood the real situation is that those larger AMD dies (and GK110) are just higher cost to produce since they take more space on a wafer and they fail more often (even if they should be dropping in price over time and NVIDIA probably sticks to their original price, but they can't drop that much).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> How so? I've made no mention of performance, just that new cards will be out.
> 
> It's inevitable that these cards will drop in price. Quote me now, and check back later.
> 
> I understand you're buying a 290X, so don't let my opinion stop you from ordering one.


Don't be scared, overhype them. The performance of CPUs might not be that impressive because per-transistor the performance doesn't change that much but for the quantity of transistors they are confident it's around 190% that of 28nm. And GPUs nowadays are beasts of multiprocessing that unlike CPUs can "just use more cores".


----------



## SOCOM_HERO

Not sure about that price. It isn't officially on the page yet, and that source code might get changed. TPU may have jumped the gun, or they may be correct. I am not sure.


----------



## Domino

Hopefully this is launch price for those desperate early adopters... If not, AMD should hold true to their moral sense or they'll only gain less support.


----------



## Usario

$699 is fair but by no means a great deal... somewhat disappointed.


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Pretty much....
> 
> I get the feeling that the entire time everyone was mocking AMD and laughing at them, they were tucked away biding their time and setting up a huge play that would pay off hugely. That play has unfolded as AMD hardware in 3 x86 consoles, and Mantle being picked up by several developers and engines.
> 
> Should be interesting.


http://s1364.photobucket.com/user/provostelite/media/2006_zpsbf748dcd.gif.html


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Pretty much....
> 
> I get the feeling that the entire time everyone was mocking AMD and laughing at them, they were tucked away biding their time and setting up a huge play that would pay off hugely. That play has unfolded as *AMD hardware in 3 x86 consoles*, and Mantle being picked up by several developers and engines.
> 
> Should be interesting.


No they don't


----------



## ozlay

yeah PISTON Console dont count amd isnt making that even if it does have amd hardware its made by xi3 but 2 is still better then none "intel"


----------



## xentrox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Pretty much....
> 
> I get the feeling that the entire time everyone was mocking AMD and laughing at them, they were tucked away biding their time and setting up a huge play that would pay off hugely. That play has unfolded as AMD hardware in 3 x86 consoles, and Mantle being picked up by several developers and engines.
> 
> Should be interesting.


Great observation, that's very much what I'm banking on. If Glide did it back in the day, I don't see why it can't be done today. To be honest I'm thinking dang, about freaking time someone woke up to this.

It's going to be very interesting watching Nvidia prepare for this. But all of that will be determined when Battlefield 4 releases with Mantle support and we get to see, the real numbers. Anything less than 15-20% won't be strong enough to fend off Nvidia. They will need drastic increases.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> No they don't


Ah, yes, my bad, I forgot Nintendo didn't go x86 on the Wii U.....silly bears.

Point stands, they are in 3 consoles though.


----------



## HanSomPa

Everyone sure raised a







storm over this.


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozlay*
> 
> yeah PISTON Console dont count amd isnt making that even if it does have amd hardware its made by xi3 but 2 is still better then none "intel"


I'm sure intel is losing sleep over it


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> I popped over to rog.asus.com to see if there was anything posted about the R9s, and it appears their website was hacked.


Alatar
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> Actually you aint called jack. No price confirmation has come down. So far all there is are random prices splattered all over.


Denials


----------



## fleetfeather

UPDATE: For Aussies:

http://www.centrecom.com.au/gigabyte-amd-radeon-r9-290x-with-battlefield-4-pre-order


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> The note about the comment just shows alatar denials.


Well played.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> UPDATE: For Aussies:
> 
> http://www.centrecom.com.au/gigabyte-amd-radeon-r9-290x-with-battlefield-4-pre-order


Classic. "See http://www.amd.com/battlefield4offer for complete details"

*checks web page*

404 Error Page


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Classic. "See http://www.amd.com/battlefield4offer for complete details"
> 
> *checks web page*
> 
> 404 Error Page


yeah the page has been like that for 1-2 hours now. Apparently, AMD are fixing it...


----------



## sugarhell

http://videocardz.com/46303/amd-radeon-r9-290x-final-specifications-bf4-bundle-available-preorder

64 rops or 44 rops. AMD we need the specs


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> http://videocardz.com/46303/amd-radeon-r9-290x-final-specifications-bf4-bundle-available-preorder
> 
> 64 rops or 44 rops. AMD we need the specs


Yes, this would be good to know. With more ROP's many suspect scaling with OC would be better and match that of the 780.

We are also not sure if 290x will come with 2.8k SP's.

So only thing we know is it will have 512-bit memory bus


----------



## Joa3d43

...had a quick look at the R9 280x BIOS rom posted at TPU...and noticed it was UEFI. What implications (if any) does this have, ie for BIOS modding R9 cards ?


----------



## rocketraid

Centercom in australia:

*Cancellations incur 25% processing and admin fees on deposit amount of $200*


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Joa3d43*
> 
> ...had a quick look at the R9 280x BIOS rom posted at TPU...and noticed it was UEFI. What implications (if any) does this have, ie for BIOS modding R9 cards ?


Can you even mod current bios anymore? I thought the designer stopped supporting the bios editor after the 5 series


----------



## Joa3d43

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Can you even mod current bios anymore? I thought the designer stopped supporting the bios editor after the 5 series


...new tool (VBE at TPU) can do current series


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rocketraid*
> 
> Centercom in australia:
> 
> *Cancellations incur 25% processing and admin fees on deposit amount of $200*


That's kind of shady, considering you don't even know the price.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rocketraid*
> 
> Centercom in australia:
> 
> *Cancellations incur 25% processing and admin fees on deposit amount of $200*


So, they don't know the final price, benchmarks, and will incur a $50 fee if they cancel?

Ummm, Interesting...


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> So, they don't know the final price, benchmarks, and will incur a $50 fee if they cancel?
> 
> Ummm, Interesting...


I bet newegg will do the same thing


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

You'd have to be insane to preorder with that info in mind...


----------



## Sheyster

I'm honestly not an nVidia fanboi. I've owned HD6970's and before that an HD5970 (hated it).

I'm having doubts about the whole Mantle thing. Given AMD's history with drivers and software development, I'm going to take a "show me the money" approach. I just wonder how much better it will actually perform than DirectX, how buggy it will be, who will support it, etc. There are just way too many what-if's. If someone is buying AMD based on the Mantle promised land, frankly they're nuts.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> You'd have to be insane to preorder with that info in mind...


ikr, I'm getting dizzy from the Bulldozer flashbacks.

Found the link:
http://www.centrecom.com.au/gigabyte-amd-radeon-r9-290x-with-battlefield-4-pre-order


----------



## rocketraid

I almost preordered, saw it quite early and added it to cart. Thought i'd do a final check so I went back to the item details and saw the 25% cancellation fee (it wasnt there initially)


----------



## Testier

AMD probably have a reason to why benchmarks are not out yet, and I doubt it is a positive reason.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> AMD probably have a reason to why benchmarks are not out yet, and I doubt it is a positive reason.


IMO its going to beat titan but not at 800 core. Thinking 1100 core should do it


----------



## Sheyster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> AMD probably have a reason to why benchmarks are not out yet, and I doubt it is a positive reason.


Well, it could be they want to keep it under wraps to surprise the competition and not have them adjust their pricing right before launch. It could also be another Bulldozer debacle. Who knows...


----------



## Sheyster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> IMO its going to beat titan but not at 800 core. Thinking 1100 core should do it


That's possible, but GTX 780 also beats Titan when OC'd...


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> AMD probably have a reason to why benchmarks are not out yet, and I doubt it is a positive reason.


b/c they are waiting for NDA to expire maybe?!


----------



## Dart06

I've been at work, what did I miss? I see it hasn't been stocked on Newegg yet.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> IMO its going to beat titan but not at 800 core. Thinking 1100 core should do it


Doesn't it boost to 1.02GHZ out of the box or something?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> I've been at work, what did I miss? I see it hasn't been stocked on Newegg yet.


The pre-order is sold out. Sucks to be you right now.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> I've been at work, what did I miss? I see it hasn't been stocked on Newegg yet.


They'll be for sale tomorrow


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> b/c they are waiting for NDA to expire maybe?!


AMD sets the NDA. I sure they can lets the reviews out early if they want to.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sheyster*
> 
> Well, it could be they want to keep it under wraps to surprise the competition and not have them adjust their pricing right before launch. It could also be another Bulldozer debacle. Who knows...


Right, then it make more sense to just launch the card when its ready and do away with this pre order gimmick. I sure they could do something else for the same amount of hype. Discuss the computing aspect(cough cough, something amd have not talked of) or more info about mantle or lists of games for never settle bundle.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> The pre-order is sold out. Sucks to be you right now.


LIES. Did it really?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> They'll be for sale tomorrow


So maybe midnight Pacific time?


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> Doesn't it boost to 1.02GHZ out of the box or something?


The ES cards that have been benched have had a bios switch that you can flip for 1020-1050MHz.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> The ES cards that have been benched have had a bios switch that you can flip for 1020-1050MHz.


Heh, retail card are dual bios too? I remember the 6970 and 7970 reference are dual bios.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> LIES. Did it really?
> So maybe midnight Pacific time?


he he, you're good. Nothing's happened yet.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> AMD sets the NDA. I sure they can lets the reviews out early if they want to.


Wasn't it like that for pretty much every product before, you set a date?!


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> he he, you're good. Nothing's happened yet.


Good. You KNOW I waited all last night. I'm going to do it again tonight if I have to. I only have one class in the AM and I can sleep the day away.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Wasn't it like that for pretty much every product before, you set a date?!


No pre ordering though. I do not think a pre ordering existed for 7970, only a paper launch, which is much better IMO.


----------



## NateN34

Hopefully this isn't the price.

Thing needs to be priced at or lower than $650 AND outperform the 780. Otherwise would definitely go Nvidia, especially with the drivers.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sheyster*
> 
> Well, it could be they want to keep it under wraps to surprise the competition and not have them adjust their pricing right before launch. It could also be another Bulldozer debacle. Who knows...


Nvidia can change the MSRP of their cards in about as much time as it takes to draft a press release, so that's not really a viable excuse.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Wasn't it like that for pretty much every product before, you set a date?!


Yes, but this is the first time anyone has tried a pre-order before specs were released. Even if they did it before (which I can't remember) it would have been between the soft-launch and retail availability date. This whole Hawaii announcement thing is really kind of unprecedented (and not in a good way).


----------



## davio

Why so much negativity towards the 290X? The way people speak of it is poorly. Consider the scenario it beats the titan, then it priced nicely, which is likely to the case I'm sure, yet people think its way too expensive yet they buy a 780 for $50 cheaper, or a titan. Makes no sense!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davio*
> 
> Why so much negativity towards the 290X? The way people speak of it is poorly. *Consider the scenario it beats the titan*, then it priced nicely, which is likely to the case I'm sure, yet people think its way too expensive yet they buy a 780 for $50 cheaper, or a titan. Makes no sense!


Where are the official benchmarks that reveal this?


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Yes, but this is the first time anyone has tried a pre-order before specs were released. Even if they did it before (which I can't remember) it would have been between the soft-launch and retail availability date. This whole Hawaii announcement thing is really kind of unprecedented (and not in a good way).


Well, if you can cancel your order w/o losing money then I see no problems. With some retailers you can obviously do that. So ppl should be cautious. How will it be on newegg?


----------



## davio

We've all seen the speckle of 'rumor' benchmarks that suggest that it is on par/slightly ahead of titan (depending on game ofc). Regardless, if you want to take that attitude, that we no nothing, then how can you complain? For all we know it could be twice as good as a titan if you take that attitude and be priced at 729.99! I dont see a need to complain either way.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davio*
> 
> Why so much negativity towards the 290X? The way people speak of it is poorly. Consider the scenario it beats the titan, then it priced nicely, which is likely to the case I'm sure, yet people think its way too expensive yet they buy a 780 for $50 cheaper, or a titan. Makes no sense!


I wonder this too knowing that it was NV asking 1k$ for a GPU. That's much worse than anything ppl try to throw at AMD.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> I wonder this too knowing that it was NV asking 1k$ for a GPU. That's much worse than anything ppl try to throw at AMD.


That 1k GPU have the same 1/3 DP as teslas and quadros.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> That 1k GPU have the same 1/3 DP as teslas and quadros.


Gamers dun care. Y did they even bring tesla to gamers? B/c AMD was kicking their butts for the first time maybe?!


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> That 1k GPU have the same 1/3 DP as teslas and quadros.


But still a 7970 matches it in most compute tests.


----------



## hyrule4927

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> That 1k GPU have the same 1/3 DP as teslas and quadros.


And the 7970 has 1/4 FP32 and R9 290X will likely have the same. GTX780 has 1/24 FP32 . . .


----------



## Joa3d43

...speaking of prices, I guess this rumor may / may not have already been posted ? "Nvidia to cut GPU prices in November to compete with AMD"

source: http://www.techspot.com/news/54182-rumor-nvidia-to-cut-gpu-prices-in-november-to-compete-with-amd.html


----------



## Roaches

I don't get it...if they're pricing the R9-280X at $299 where as the 290X is above $600, many would think getting 2 R9-280X considering the better value/performance they would get...Even though it means needing a slightly beefy PSU...


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Gamers dun care. Y did they even bring tesla to gamers? B/c AMD was kicking their butts for the first time maybe?!


No, not even close. Nvidia have the professional market completely locked down. Remember, moet of the top end nvidia dies nowadays are designed as teslas first. There is a reason. There is also a reason why amd is starting to push computing with gcn.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roaches*
> 
> I don't get it...if they're pricing the R9-280X at $299 where as the 290X is above $600, many would think getting 2 R9-280X considering the better value/performance they would get...Even though it means needing a slightly beefy PSU...


Because people buys flagships generally do not care about price vs performance.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> But still a 7970 matches it in most compute tests.


What? On release drivers?


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> What? On release drivers?


Lol now it's obvious you didn't know that.


----------



## Clockster

Well now I know for a fact its faster than a Titan and a factory oc'd 780 I'll be getting one for sure.
Still bugged about the price but you only live once and you should make the most of it (Dribble to justify paying that price)


----------



## Killmassacre

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roaches*
> 
> I don't get it...if they're pricing the R9-280X at $299 where as the 290X is above $600, many would think getting 2 R9-280X considering the better value/performance they would get...Even though it means needing a slightly beefy PSU...


That was the same situation with the 760's and the 780, but many people still buy and prefer the 780 even though it has less performance and costs more. I think the R9 290 might be able to sway people away from 280X CF if they price it at ~$499 and it's <10% slower then the 290x.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

This is nothing new. I rmember when I bought my 560Ti's for less than $500 rather than getting a 580. They were much faster in SLI than a 580 so it made sense to me at the time. Two 280X's would certainly be a smarter bargain provided CF is fully functional. Some people just have a dislike for multi cards however...


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clockster*
> 
> Well now I know for a fact its faster than a Titan and a factory oc'd 780 I'll be getting one for sure.


How do you know that for a fact?


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Lol now it's obvious you didn't know that.


If you are talking about the bench with various computing application showing HD 7970 completely beating or tieing the titan in march, I am aware of it. My comment was merely stating it was on early drivers and various application have yet to optimize it for its arch. As regarding your tone, it seems you are more concerned with proofing my ignorance and thus proofi my statement against amd wrong then this actual discussion.


----------



## Forceman

Boy, I knew guys got screwed on pricing in Canada, but this is extreme.


----------



## carmas

Was the price confirmed? I don't trust these early pricing, for example Aria has the R9-290X for preorder at £11999.99 (link) and that's surely not going to be the final price


----------



## Killmassacre

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Boy, I knew guys got screwed on pricing in Canada, but this is extreme.


I believe the 290x was listed at $750 on newegg.ca but only on their mobile site, so it's only $20 more hopefully lol.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7388/r9290x-preordering-begins-today


----------



## CrazzyRussian

I'm actually pleasantly surprised with the price


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clockster*
> 
> Well now I know for a fact its faster than a Titan and a factory oc'd 780 I'll be getting one for sure. Still bugged about the price but you only live once and you should make the most of it (Dribble to justify paying that price)


you would rather not comment if you are under NDA. if not if you have a sample please post benchmarks with GPU-z screenshots to settle this for all of us at ocn.


----------



## Roaches

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Boy, I knew guys got screwed on pricing in Canada, but this is extreme.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carmas*
> 
> Was the price confirmed? I don't trust these early pricing, for example Aria has the R9-290X for preorder at £11999.99 (link) and that's surely not going to be the final price


Yeah I'm seeing it as a placeholder price as well unless someone very rich and deranged would make such an early purchase


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Boy, I knew guys got screwed on pricing in Canada, but this is extreme.


They're trying to save face after revealing the real price.


----------



## szeged

"its faster than the titan because i want it to be"

k


----------



## Clockster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> you would rather not comment if you are under NDA. if not if you have a sample please post benchmarks with GPU-z screenshots to settle this for all of us at ocn.


I am not under NDA but I was told by a certain overclocker and reviewer (Who is the worlds biggest Nvidia fan) lol


----------



## szeged

this one guy who knows a guy who saw this one guy who saw a gpu once said itll beat a titan.


----------



## Stay Puft

So i'm officially dropping out of the 290X race. Was laying in bed with the wife before and..

"So did you buy your video cards?"
No hun. Not released yet
"How many are you buying"
Four
"Why do you need four?"
Cause i want them
"Well how much are they?"
700
"I thought they were 599"
We all did
"Gives the look"
Ugh alright i'll wait on the 770 Ti
"How much are they?"
Should be 499
"Ok"










That coming from a woman who could drop a thousand dollars on a purse without the blink of an eye.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> this one guy who knows a guy who saw this one guy who saw a gpu once said itll beat a titan.


Don't forget he's the world's biggest NVIDIA fan, so it must be legit.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Don't forget he's the world's biggest NVIDIA fan, so it must be legit.


you can have all the fun for another 11 days. you have enough fodder


----------



## Dart06

22 minutes. Will it finally be up for pre order?


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> Low price isn't the only way to gain market share...


after the disaster of marketing and media pr job that AMD has done. Yes it literally is the ONLY way to gain market share. AMD should fire their entire marketing team. They could hire 6 of us from OCN (just 6 random OCNers) and we could do a better job.

Good lord this has been an atrocious release. Literally.... the ONLY way for AMD to gain market share after this disaster is to release at an extremely low price. if the R9 290x really is 699 USD or heck even 649 USD without performance that is not just a few percentage points ahead of a 780, it will be considered a massive failure.


----------



## Dart06

So did AMD get mad at Newegg for accidentally revealing the price which was what caused the delay or do we not know why it happened?


----------



## Newbie2009

Come on lets not write it off yet, NDA does not expire until 15th. Price gouging always happens with preorders. Patience people. More important things to life than a bloody graphics card.


----------



## raptor15sc

So it is now Oct. 4th on the West Coast, has anyone found anything new available?


----------



## Dart06

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

This is dumb. I think this is a sign to not get a 290x. Maybe just get cfx 290s instead.

Yep, finally calling it quits. It was fun and maybe it will just shed new light on why I should never have considered a 290x in the first place. See you all tomorrow.


----------



## SniperOct

not sure why you guys are waiting, a couple of days ago it was reported that the NDA is lifting on oct 8th. Oct 3 was cancelled. There was a thread here with that info. This waiting confuses me.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-r9-280x-release-date,24528.html


----------



## raptor15sc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SniperOct*
> 
> not sure why you guys are waiting, a couple of days ago it was reported that the NDA is lifting on oct 8th. Oct 3 was cancelled. There was a thread here with that info. This waiting confuses me.
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-r9-280x-release-date,24528.html


Well maybe if you actually read the posts you'd understand.


----------



## edo101

Why? who told them this was a good idea. Make this stuff cheaper and MORE people will buy it. Jesus, you spend time making a quality product and then your marketing team messes it up?


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> When I talk about performance I'm talking stock performance. In some cases it pulls ahead of the TITAN nicely, in others the TITAN pulls ahead. I averaged it out and the TITAN is slightly faster, but not by much. I said TITAN was history before averaging the scores, and thought that a good trumping pulled the 290X further ahead than it really did. *1400 MHz is what the card does on LN2.*


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?286994-Amd-Volcanic-Islands-details/page29


----------



## Redwoodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> after the disaster of marketing and media pr job that AMD has done. Yes it literally is the ONLY way to gain market share. AMD should fire their entire marketing team. They could hire 6 of us from OCN (just 6 random OCNers) and we could do a better job.
> 
> Good lord this has been an atrocious release. Literally.... the ONLY way for AMD to gain market share after this disaster is to release at an extremely low price. if the R9 290x really is 699 USD or heck even 649 USD without performance that is not just a few percentage points ahead of a 780, it will be considered a massive failure.


What disaster,you guys have been going nuts for weeks.
The card will be judged on it's performance and price.If it's priced more you can be dang sure the performance will match it.

Everyone seems to think they are owed something before AMD's stated release. I mean come on that's like blaming a train for being late before the scheduled time.


----------



## SniperOct

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raptor15sc*
> 
> Well maybe if you actually read the posts you'd understand.


what post? the op? nowhere does it say oct 3rd/4th


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redwoodz*
> 
> What disaster,you guys have been going nuts for weeks.
> The card will be judged on it's performance and price.If it's priced more you can be dang sure the performance will match it.
> 
> Everyone seems to think they are owed something before AMD's stated release. I mean come on that's like blaming a train for being late before the scheduled time.


Yep. Ppl have too much time to waste, I can't explain it otherwise. I know it's a pain to wait, but in a week or so we will know everything


----------



## kot0005

The story so far:

Once upon a time in 780 million square kilometers land covered with green and green lush forests, some strange creatures called Titans were found ravaging the land for a long period of time. The Titans reproduced with other animals in the forest and gave birth to 760 pandarians and 770 Voodoo snakes. the pandarians and voodoo snakes mated with each other and gave birth to 770i porkbelly pigs and 750i tomato sauce beef jerky's.

Ok apart from the joke, the real story from AMD so far:

1.Oct 3 will be the pre order dat!! omg omg!

2.Rumoured to beat titan.

3.Rumoured to have 2186 Sp's, 44/64 Rop's , 176 Tmu's, 4Gb DDR5 ram , 512 bit, price can be from $499-$1000 , comes with BF4

4.Can Use mantle and True audio.

5. Lots of amazing rumoured and leaked benchmarks

Thanks that have turned out to be true:

1. Oct 3 is not the pre order date, Specs and price wont be released till the NDA is lifted.

2. Some stores made up they own selfish , customer pant and wallet ripping preorder prices from $15k to$200 with cancellation charges in case the customer didnot want the product.

3.AMD has failed and to impress the majority (Bang for buck GPU buyers)

4. AMD is trying to be elitest and not releasing the specs, price or benches.

5. Teasing and Hyping the consumers to the MaxxX.

I am sensing a Bulldozer with the path AMD has chosen. Someone mentioned that its similar to Apple's iPhone launch. But being an android fan I have to say that Apple is way better at launching their products, none of this AMD BS. Apple gives the specs, price for every device, their pre order dates and availability in the stores.

TLDR: This is the worst product launch in History so far, it even beats Diablo 3's error 3007.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redwoodz*
> 
> What disaster,you guys have been going nuts for weeks.
> The card will be judged on it's performance and price.If it's priced more you can be dang sure the performance will match it.
> 
> Everyone seems to think they are owed something before AMD's stated release. I mean come on that's like blaming a train for being late before the scheduled time.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Yep. Ppl have too much time to waste, I can't explain it otherwise. I know it's a pain to wait, but in a week or so we will know everything


What disaster? where were you guys during their GPU *Product Showcase*

You won't get these 3 hours of your life back I am warning you. But I think it's important necessary for you to watch this so you understand where most of the people who watch the industry are coming from when I say this was one of the worst marketing jobs of all time.

Keep in mind its a GPU product showcase.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1429260/yt-amd-gpu14-product-showcase-livestream


----------



## kot0005

PCCG closed their registration for the cards now.

Quote:


> Pre-order registration limit has been reached! All those who have expressed interest will be contacted by email once the cards arrive in mid October!


----------



## TooBAMF

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> What disaster? where were you guys during their GPU *Product Showcase*
> 
> You won't get these 3 hours of your life back I am warning you. But I think it's important necessary for you to watch this so you understand where most of the people who watch the industry are coming from when I say this was one of the worst marketing jobs of all time.
> 
> Keep in mind its a GPU product showcase.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1429260/yt-amd-gpu14-product-showcase-livestream


This.

I watched all three hours, even as a Titan owner because I want something faster than my Titan without spending another $1000 or going back to 3GB vram. AMD insulted me with that showcase.

They clearly used the 290X as an attention grabber so they could have an audience for their new unproven software solutions Mantle and TrueAudio. The rest was marketing for mostly unimpressive games, besides Star Citizen, which I already support.

They showed prices, specs and performance UNTIL they got to the 290X, just skipped right over it. I thought I missed it, I didn't, then I thought they would reveal it at the end, so I sat through 2 more hours of crap, then they just ended the presentation. Disgusting.


----------



## thestache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> PCCG closed their registration for the cards now.


Some of these pre-orders like centrecoms are ******ed. Put down $200 to pre-order a GPU we know nothing about and don't even know the price for. Shameful.


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thestache*
> 
> Some of these pre-orders like centrecoms are ******ed. Put down $200 to pre-order a GPU we know nothing about and don't even know the price for. Shameful.


It is also what bothers me. Say AMD already has a price in mind like $599 as was leaked before, so with BF4 the Price would be $670. All these site sell pre-orders at an avg of $800, then what is to stop AMD from listing it at $800 or $730 without. I am not a fan of these random prices and likely they are at fault a great deal for higher prices when this particular occurrence happens. Granted AMD shoulders some fault as well by NOT setting a concrete date and price ahead of the stated OCT 3rd pre-order. It opens the door for such chaos.


----------



## Ryan45

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> TLDR: This is the worst product launch in History so far, it even beats Diablo 3's error 3007.


They didn't launch a product, all they did was a preview.


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thestache*
> 
> Some of these pre-orders like centrecoms are ******ed. Put down $200 to pre-order a GPU we know nothing about and don't even know the price for. Shameful.


Plus the fact, how much more will you pay than the rrp on launch, if they have a deposit they will be tempted to stretch the price as high as possible.


----------



## Blindsay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> if the card cost the same as the GTX780 and beat the titan Nv fanboys should say anything... titan cost 1k and people happily get it... i wen the other day to the Titan club here and i see people getting 2 and 3 titans... thats nuts!
> 
> R9 290X leaked bench shows clearly is beating the TITAN leave alone the GTX780...
> when have u seen to many leaks benchmarks saying the same?
> so we should be taking it seriously by now... AMD is stepping up their game and competitiveness, so why a card that is supposed to beat the TITAN should be place on less
> than $599?? even if it is $650... its below the 1k nv counter part wich is likely to be eaten by a less expensive card...
> 
> So Nvidia lovers stop the nosense and preper yourself to get destroy by a better card.


you make it sound like the titan is so far away from the 780....

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/evga_geforce_gtx_780_classified_review,20.html

oh wait is that a 780 beating a titan...


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ryan45*
> 
> They didn't launch a product, all they did was a preview.


Exactly! the preview was on the 25th sept. 3rd oct was supposed to open up pre orders, they did launch the product. They just did not release it. Also announcing that it will be up for pre order on 3rd oct on a stream with 30k-35k viewers isnt a good idea when you cant keep the promise + the tech difficulties during the stream already pissed off a lot of people. So they just made the situation even worse by not doing what they had said.

Compare it to the PS4 and XBOX One launches...They even have their specs and pricing released. I think AMD was never ready for a pre order, they are probably collecting data on how many people are interested in these cards by letting them register their interest and price the card based on that


----------



## fleetfeather

When you host an event in Hawaii called GPU'14, viewers don't expect:

Sound'14 or Rebrand'14...

They expect to hear you preview the flipping GPU with the code-name Hawaii, not everything but it.


----------



## provost

I would not be surprised if there is something in the US commercial law that prevents retailers from selling a product without disclosing what they are selling(ponzi scheme, etc). Given how litigious the us is compared to rest of the world, may be newegg, and others told AMD to take hike with this pre order gimmick until AMD was ready to come clean with the disclosure. Just a theory....

Or

AMD may also have done this pre order crap to test what the market would bear outside of the US before setting the final price for the US market; the largest consumer market in the world in terms of total spending. Just another theory....

Or,

AMD really really needs to hype the product before launch because the real deal has way to many caveats for it to be true i.e

290x only beats the Titan and 780 if all of the below are true:

a). It needs a custom bios through the dual bios switch
b) only in certain games that can utilize Mantle or AMD drivers for turbo
c) only when comparing OC performance to stock performance

I just go back to the basics; if the 290x is really the next big thing to hit the pc gamers, why do all the hype? Just let the results speak for themselves, and hype the real thing instead of hyping hope


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> you make it sound like the titan is so far away from the 780....
> 
> http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/evga_geforce_gtx_780_classified_review,20.html
> 
> oh wait is that a 780 beating a titan...


I believe he was referring to stock models, not factory overclocked cards.


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> When you host an event in Hawaii called GPU'14, viewers don't expect:
> 
> Sound'14 or Rebrand'14...
> 
> They expect to hear you preview the flipping GPU with the code-name Hawaii, not everything but it.


Yep lol, I woke up at 5am to watch it, just to get disappointed that the show was delayed and then it had 3 hours of nonsense. I was expecting a typical hardware launch like the iphone, samsung GS4 or the New XBOX one and PS4 consoles.

I think the event was only meant for the people who got invited/the partners/retailers who got a full briefing on the specs, NDA etc, leaving us customers in the dark.


----------



## Blindsay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> I believe he was referring to stock models, not factory overclocked cards.


I know but in this case its silly not to include them, a +$50 overclocked model matches the titan so we might as well ignore the titan.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> if the card cost the same as the GTX780 and beat the titan Nv fanboys should not say anything... titan cost 1k and people happily get it... i went the other day into the Titan clubs here and i saw people getting 2 and 3 titans... thats nuts!
> 
> R9 290X leaked bench shows clearly is beating the TITAN leave alone the GTX780...
> when have u seen to many leaks benchmarks saying the same?
> so we should be taking it seriously by now... AMD is stepping up their game and competitiveness, so why a card that is supposed to beat the TITAN should be place on less
> than $599?? even if it is $650... its below the 1k nv counter part wich is likely to be eaten by a less expensive card...
> 
> So Nvidia lovers stop the nosense and preper yourself to get destroy by a better card.


Ha, did you even notice the guy you replied to runs 2 Titans?

Anyway, posts like this keeps me from ever taking you seriously. You are so blinded by the red lens that you can't even see what AMD is doing is hurting them more and more. Only loyal followers agree with the stunts AMD has been doing as of late.

They need to release the price and official benchmarks for the 290X already. Stop messing around with your customer base and give some concrete numbers on the price and the performance.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> I know but in this case its silly not to include them, a +$50 overclocked model matches the titan so we might as well ignore the titan.


Especially with cards like the Classified which come way overclocked and have unlocked voltage control.


----------



## MattGordon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> When you host an event in Hawaii called GPU'14, viewers don't expect:
> 
> Sound'14 or Rebrand'14...
> 
> They expect to hear you preview the flipping GPU with the code-name Hawaii, not everything but it.


Tbh it reminded me of the reveal of the Xbox one.

Xbox: TV TV TV sports sports TV Dogs TV TV
Amd 14: Graphics Sound Sound Sound Space ships


----------



## Catscratch

There's still no official word from AMD about the release date right ?


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Catscratch*
> 
> There's still no official word from AMD about the release date right ?


Closest thing i can find to a release date. Its from another thread here. Thank you Regent Square.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1430168/vc-r9-290x-to-be-officially-released-on-october-15th

Quote:


> Moving on to launch date. In few days you will be able to pre-order a R9 290X bundle with Battlefield 4. What is surprising is that the specifications and the price of this bundle remains unknown, and it will stay like this until NDA lifts, which will happen on *October 15th*.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1430168/vc-r9-290x-to-be-officially-released-on-october-15th


----------



## Testier

.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> if the card cost the same as the GTX780 and beat the titan Nv fanboys should not say anything... titan cost 1k and people happily get it... i went the other day into the Titan clubs here and i saw people getting 2 and 3 titans... thats nuts!
> 
> R9 290X leaked bench shows clearly is beating the TITAN leave alone the GTX780...
> when have u seen to many leaks benchmarks saying the same?
> so we should be taking it seriously by now... AMD is stepping up their game and competitiveness, so why a card that is supposed to beat the TITAN should be place on less
> than $599?? even if it is $650... its below the 1k nv counter part wich is likely to be eaten by a less expensive card...
> 
> So Nvidia lovers stop the nosense and preper yourself to get destroy by a better card.


On stock. If r9 290x is slower than a titan when both OCed, then well, I doubt I would be getting an inferior card. Something else to remind you of. K6000 quadro uses a fully enabled GK110. Clocked around 900 by default and uses 2 x 6pin. That's how good the yield of gk110 can be. What is stopping nvidia to launch a titan ultra and drop the price of titan? They have milked their GK110 long enough and 28nm have matured enough.


----------



## Ryan45

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Catscratch*
> 
> There's still no official word from AMD about the release date right ?


You can find updates here http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/r9/Pages/radeon-r9-series-tech-day.aspx
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> Exactly! the preview was on the 25th sept. 3rd oct was supposed to open up pre orders, they did launch the product. They just did not release it. Also announcing that it will be up for pre order on 3rd oct on a stream with 30k-35k viewers isnt a good idea when you cant keep the promise + the tech difficulties during the stream already pissed off a lot of people. So they just made the situation even worse by not doing what they had said.
> 
> Compare it to the PS4 and XBOX One launches...They even have their specs and pricing released. I think AMD was never ready for a pre order, they are probably collecting data on how many people are interested in these cards by letting them register their interest and price the card based on that


Check the twitter feed here. They are available in some countries. 24h ago. Not everything revolves around the USA.

https://twitter.com/AMDRadeon

Or here

https://www.facebook.com/AMDGaming/posts/535192336553258


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> I know but in this case its silly not to include them, a +$50 overclocked model matches the titan so we might as well ignore the titan.


Of course the titan can overclock as well. I see your point though. $699 aint cheap either.

More than I would be willing to pay for a card. Oh how I miss the 500 days.....


----------



## 47 Knucklehead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ryan45*
> 
> They didn't launch a product, all they did was a preview.


They really didn't to a video card preview either. After giving up after hours of delays and about an hour of mindless drivel, what I really got out of that FAILED product showcase is that AMD is really launching some new and wonderful *SOUND CARD* called the R9 290X.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattGordon*
> 
> Amd 14: Graphics Sound Sound Sound Space ships


Don't forget Cow's mooing.


----------



## Demonkev666

wasn't the R 290X benchmarks done with a FX 9590 ?
lack of IPC or even OC probably.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> this one guy who knows a guy who saw this one guy who saw a gpu once said itll beat a titan.


You seem worried.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> You seem worried.


I don't know why you would think he is worried. Even if it is faster than the Titan, Titan owners can probably sell their Titan and have enough money to buy a 290X and a cookie.


----------



## Alatar

And with the latest reports of the 290X only doing 1400MHz on LN2 I doubt Titan users have anything to worry about at all...

If the reports and leaked benches are true that is.


----------



## Yungbenny911

I wonder why this 290x is consistently compared to the TITAN.....









780's can easily surpass Titans in benches even when both are overclocked, so idky i keep hearing 290X Vs Titan here and there. I believe it's real competition should be the 780.


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yungbenny911*
> 
> I wonder why this 290x is consistently compared to the TITAN.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 780's can easily surpass Titans in benches even when both are overclocked, so idky i keep hearing 290X Vs Titan here and there. I believe it's real competition should be the 780.


I have only seen a 1500 780 to surpass a 1300 something titan.So you are wrong about the easily.(Also only custom 780s can do that i would be crazy to put 1.4 on a ref pcb)


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yungbenny911*
> 
> I wonder why this 290x is consistently compared to the TITAN.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 780's can easily surpass Titans in benches even when both are overclocked, so idky i keep hearing 290X Vs Titan here and there. I believe it's real competition should be the 780.


Well, considering that the difference of performance between a 780 and Titan is minimal (~10%) at stock it is not hard to say that AMD should target the Titan. The other point is that the Titan has been out for what, 6 months? People would expect that AMD could compete with a card that has been out for half a year.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> And with the latest reports of the 290X only doing 1400MHz on LN2 I doubt Titan users have anything to worry about at all...
> 
> If the reports and leaked benches are true that is.


How can you say that without knowing how they compare clock for clock?

Why would you be worrying even if 290x beat a titan?

Do even 30% of titans out there overclock beyond 1200 on air?


----------



## Sir Beregond

Price sucks. Only solace I can have in this is that if the 290X is targetting the Titan, then the price of $729 is much lower than $1000. Hopefully if this is a correct assessment, the 290 will be targetting the $650 780 and release at $549-$599 or below. I guess we'll see. But so far I am disappointed.

Maybe I'll upgrade my CPU/MOBO/RAM first.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> How can you say that without knowing how they compare clock for clock?
> 
> Why would you be worrying even if 290x beat a titan?
> 
> Do even 30% of titans out there overclock beyond 1200 on air?


The leaked benches show a 290X that's a bit slower than a Titan clock for clock. So if we assume those are real then yes we know.

And yes Titans do clock well since we now have pretty much unlimited voltage control. Water of course makes them shine but 1200 isn't hard on air.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yungbenny911*
> 
> I wonder why this 290x is consistently compared to the TITAN.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 780's can easily surpass Titans in benches even when both are overclocked, so idky i keep hearing 290X Vs Titan here and there. I believe it's real competition should be the 780.


rubbish. Titan is 10 -12% faster than GTX 780 on a clock for clock basis. you need a 150 mhz higher clock on the GTX 780 to match a GTX Titan , leave alone beat it. if the GTX 780 is so good why isn't it topping the charts. btw I am talking about a Titan which is not throttled by the stock BIOS and its stupid TDP and voltage limit. if you want more proof alatar will oblige


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> Well, considering that the difference of performance between a 780 and Titan is minimal (~10%) at stock it is not hard to say that AMD should target the Titan. The other point is that the Titan has been out for what, 6 months? People would expect that AMD could compete with a card that has been out for half a year.


Titan came out in February.

I still say AMD is better served to compete price wise with the 780, no matter if the 290X is as fast as the Titan.


----------



## Sir Beregond

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Titan came out in February.
> 
> I still say AMD is better served to compete price wise with the 780, no matter if the 290X is as fast as the Titan.


I would agree with this. Unless you are a diehard nvidia enthusiast, those with no allegiance would gobble up the 290X's if they did this. It would have been a smarter move overall for AMD to take. They would have had a long line of people getting these if they performed on par or better than nvidia's offerings at a lower price. As it stands I'm just not even going to bother with either camp at these rediculous prices.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> The leaked benches show a 290X that's a bit slower than a Titan clock for clock. So if we assume those are real then yes we know. And yes Titans do clock well since we now have pretty much unlimited voltage control. Water of course makes them shine but 1200 isn't hard on air.


why assume when its just 11 days away ? and then the forums will burst into an epic benchmarking war







tsm106 vs alatar . thats a nice contest i am waiting to see. hopefully AMD has not messed with any voltage restrictions and allow 1.35v with msi afterburner / sapphire trixx. normally AMD reference designs have been great for water coolers and voltage overclocking.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> And with the latest reports of the 290X only doing 1400MHz on LN2 I doubt Titan users have anything to worry about at all...
> 
> If the reports and leaked benches are true that is.


It is still not confirmed how much it can push on water, a mod called it a baseless rumor.

Even if it does only 1400mz it does not mean It cant beat Titan on air.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> why assume when its just 11 days away ? and then the forums will burst into an epic benchmarking war
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tsm106 vs alatar . thats a nice contest i am waiting to see. hopefully AMD has not messed with any voltage restrictions and allow 1.35v with msi afterburner / sapphire trixx. normally AMD reference designs have been great for water coolers and voltage overclocking.


Assuming is nice for speculating









but yes we need a proper benching thread when these things come out.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Dunno why it would OC worse than 7970. Makes no sense to me. That would probably be the first time ever that newer gen clocked lower. But then again, y not just wait for reviews?!


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> I know but in this case its silly not to include them, a +$50 overclocked model matches the titan so we might as well ignore the titan.


Sure. If you assume a Titan can't be overclocked as well...


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> The leaked benches show a 290X that's a bit slower than a Titan clock for clock. So if we assume those are real then yes we know.
> 
> And yes Titans do clock well since we now have pretty much unlimited voltage control. Water of course makes them shine but 1200 isn't hard on air.


And we know how overclocking scales?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Sure. If you assume a Titan can't be overclocked as well...


I am sure his context is stock for stock buying from a store.

Just the same as you have a Titan SC which is clocked higher than stock.


----------



## Blindsay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Sure. If you assume a Titan can't be overclocked as well...


I was making that point for price/performance ratio

A 780 classified matches a titan for $300 less

But if you want to look at overclocked

http://hwbot.org/benchmark/3dmark_-_fire_strike/rankings?cores=1#start=0#interval=20

gee look which card is #1


----------



## bencher

Lets say R9 290x is slower than titan but faster than 780 and cost $600.
'What can a $1000 Titan do that a $600 R9 290x cant or Gtx 780?

Nothing...


----------



## whyscotty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Titan is junk in games.


yeah ok, if you say so


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> I was making that point for price/performance ratio
> 
> A 780 classified matches a titan for $300 less
> 
> But if you want to look at overclocked
> 
> http://hwbot.org/benchmark/3dmark_-_fire_strike/rankings?cores=1#start=0#interval=20
> 
> gee look which card is #1


LOL i will save this for whenever someones brings Tiatn's performance to me.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Titan can make AMD price the card really high, that is the only thing titan can do


I meant performance wise


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> I was making that point for price/performance ratio
> 
> A 780 classified matches a titan for $300 less
> 
> But if you want to look at overclocked
> 
> http://hwbot.org/benchmark/3dmark_-_fire_strike/rankings?cores=1#start=0#interval=20
> 
> gee look which card is #1


Almost 1900MHz 780 against 1711MHz Titan. Gee I wonder why.

Not that people on hwbot really bench normal FS that much, Firestrike Extreme is the one people bench since that gets you the points over there (was chosen since it's more GPU dependant and peeps didn't want a bench like vantage that would become CPU bound so quickly). Normal firestrike doesn't net you any points at all.

http://hwbot.org/benchmark/3dmark_-_fire_strike_extreme/rankings?cores=1#start=0#interval=20

First 780 is 11th and it needed over 1900MHz for that...


----------



## Blindsay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Lets say R9 290x is slower than titan but faster than 780 and cost $600.
> 'What can a $1000 Titan do that a $600 R9 290x cant or Gtx 780?
> 
> Nothing...


Where is the 290x $600? Also why dont you compare to a card like the 780 classified, Titan performance for $700


----------



## Blindsay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Almost 1900MHz 780 against 1711MHz Titan. Gee I wonder why.


Well fell free to bench a Titan higher than 1711

edit: also for extreme, the 780 is 2nd

http://hwbot.org/submission/2411669_kingpin_3dmark___fire_strike_extreme_geforce_gtx_780_7732_marks he isnt doesnt have it ranked but it would fall in 2nd place


----------



## Sheyster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> But if you want to look at overclocked
> 
> http://hwbot.org/benchmark/3dmark_-_fire_strike/rankings?cores=1#start=0#interval=20
> 
> gee look which card is #1


That card is a beast! Look at the score difference between it and the #2 card!


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> Well fell free to bench a Titan higher than 1711


Why would anyone at hwbot want to risk destroying a really good modded Titan for a bench that doesn't even get you points?

That's like benching 3dm11 entry preset at max clocks...


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Lets say R9 290x is slower than titan but faster than 780 and cost $600.
> 'What can a $1000 Titan do that a $600 R9 290x cant or Gtx 780?
> 
> Nothing...


Forgot to read my entire arguement yesterday about GPGPU? Something else to consider. Frametime on mutigpu setups for mutiple monitors. Also, nvidia provides 10 bit color support in DX applications on geforce card.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Almost 1900MHz 780 against 1711MHz Titan. Gee I wonder why.
> 
> Not that people on hwbot really bench normal FS that much, Firestrike Extreme is the one people bench since that gets you the points over there (was chosen since it's more GPU dependant and peeps didn't want a bench like vantage that would become CPU bound so quickly). Normal firestrike doesn't net you any points at all.
> 
> http://hwbot.org/benchmark/3dmark_-_fire_strike_extreme/rankings?cores=1#start=0#interval=20
> 
> First 780 is 11th and it needed over 1900MHz for that...


I bet the Classy didn't need to be zombiefied for any of its runs though.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> Where is the 290x $600? Also why dont you compare to a card like the 780 classified, Titan performance for $700


That's why I included a gtx 780 in my statement.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> LOL i will save this for whenever someones brings Tiatn's performance to me.


Why dont you build a GTX titan with 780 classified's phases and then overclock it and bench it? I am sure you are ware of the 780 classfiied's PCB compare to titans. What are you trying to compare here?

I think we all understand titan's market is not for you. We get it, stop complaining about something that will not affect you.


----------



## Blindsay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> That's why I included a gtx 780 in my statement.


the 780 classified is no normal 780

for price performance is a better deal than either the titan or a regular 780


----------



## Newbie2009

Someone needs to change the name of this thread.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> Why dont you build a GTX titan with 780 classified's phases and then overclock it and bench it? I am sure you are ware of the 780 classfiied's PCB compare to titans. What are you trying to compare here?


Yeah, no doubt. There really is no single gpu card on the market today that can topple the Titan.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> the 780 classified is no normal 780
> 
> for price performance is a better deal than either the titan or a regular 780


Oh ok understood.


----------



## sdlvx

Uh, kind of just noticed this, but there's an R9 290 non-x version that's supposed to come out.

This is probably the chip you guys are looking for.

R9 290x is the SKU to go against Titan
R9 290 is the SKU to go against GTX 780.

The price gap between 280x and 290x is too large. 290 will fill in quite nicely.

It's too bad a lot of you are acting like R9 290x price is the end and you're all disappointed.

R9 290x is the fully enabled part. It's the equivalent of TItan and GK110 but Titan isn't fully enabled IIRC.

AMD won this generation and if you're flipping out over 290x price you're making a mistake. AMD has a chip with a smaller die that is faster than what Nvidia has. AMD can under-cut Nvidia while having better profits on that item.

r9 290x is just the anti-Titan. The anti-780 will show up soon.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdlvx*
> 
> Uh, kind of just noticed this, but there's an R9 290 non-x version that's supposed to come out.
> 
> This is probably the chip you guys are looking for.
> 
> R9 290x is the SKU to go against Titan
> R9 290 is the SKU to go against GTX 780.
> 
> The price gap between 280x and 290x is too large. 290 will fill in quite nicely.
> 
> It's too bad a lot of you are acting like R9 290x price is the end and you're all disappointed.
> 
> R9 290x is the fully enabled part. It's the equivalent of TItan and GK110 but Titan isn't fully enabled IIRC.
> 
> AMD won this generation and if you're flipping out over 290x price you're making a mistake. AMD has a chip with a smaller die that is faster than what Nvidia has. AMD can under-cut Nvidia while having better profits on that item.
> 
> r9 290x is just the anti-Titan. The anti-780 will show up soon.


Proof for R9 290X is faster than titan? Official benchmarks?


----------



## Regent Square

I talked about Metro 2033

BF3 is a multiplayer game which is why Swordbreaker is not a good example.

These are my reasons.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> the 780 classified is no normal 780
> 
> for price performance is a better deal than either the titan or a regular 780


Oh ok understood.


----------



## Blindsay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> I talked about Metro 2033
> 
> BF3 is a multiplayer game which is why Swordbreaker is not a good example.
> 
> These are my reasons.


Again you have not shown any proof and now whenever i provide some tangible data you come up with some excuse why its not valid. Stop making baseless claims


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> Again you have not shown any proof and now whenever i provide some tangible data you come up with some excuse why its not valid. Stop making baseless claims


Again just as I expected. Your provided proofs are incorrect.

You can search videos on youtube to show Titan`s spikes in BF3 oman and 2033.

Do this and then come back later.


----------



## Blindsay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Again just as I expected. Your provided proofs are incorrect.
> 
> You can search videos on youtube to show Titan`s spikes in BF3 oman and 2033.
> 
> Do this and then come back later.


Yes because youtube videos are more trustworthy than proven review sites


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> Yes because youtube videos are more trustworthy than proven review sites


Lol at this. Youtube videos show BF3 in multiplayer which is what the game all about. And metro 2033 is not even in the review sections of the articles you posted.

So yea, you don't game and make a claim that Titan is a good card.


----------



## Athrun Zala

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darklyric*
> 
> 20 inch blades on da impala, shot calla


Love that song btw.

On topic: This is exactly why I stay in the mid-range when it comes to video cards. Too rich for my blood...


----------



## Blindsay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Lol at this. Youtube videos show BF3 in multiplayer which is what the game all about. And metro 2033 is not even in the review sections of the articles you posted.
> 
> So yea, you don't game and make a claim that Titan is a good card.


The review i posted has Metro last light, no one uses 2033 anyone.

And yes i game i alot and the Titan is a good card and quite frankly you are insane if you think it is not


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Lol at this. Youtube videos show BF3 in multiplayer which is what the game all about. And metro 2033 is not even in the review sections of the articles you posted.
> 
> So yea, you don't game and make a claim that Titan is a good card.


Titan not a good card?









Titan would have been the current 780 if Amd actually had something in the 7 series that performed


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> The review i posted has Metro last light, no one uses 2033 anyone.
> 
> And yes i game i alot and the Titan is a good card and quite frankly you are insane if you think it is not


I play 2033 it is not performing well there as well as in BF3.


----------



## Blindsay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> I play 2033 it is not performing well there as well as in BF3.


must be just you then


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Titan not a good card?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Titan would have been the current 780 if Amd actually had something in the 7 series that performed


I really dont get how Titan's price is AMD's fault.

It is a part of the equation, but not entirely AMD's fault.

Blame yourself for even considering spending $1000 on any gpu. That is where the main problem is.


----------



## iamhollywood5

So I just checked newegg again and the "hidden" price of the R9 290X is now changed to $9,999.99 lol. This was only for the ASUS card, I didn't check the others, but the fact they changed it to an obvious placeholder price makes the $729.99 even more believable. Although I don't know why we can just get an official freaking price for gods sake... The fact that AMD has taken so long to reveal an official price makes me think they are scared to, worried about the backlash


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> must be just you then


Nope


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iamhollywood5*
> 
> So I just checked newegg again and the "hidden" price of the R9 290X is now changed to $9,999.99 lol. This was only for the ASUS card, I didn't check the others, but the fact they changed it to an obvious placeholder price makes the $729.99 even more believable. Although I don't know why we can just get an official freaking price for gods sake... The fact that AMD has taken so long to reveal an official price makes me think they are scared to, worried about the backlash


Since when 730 Is a believable price?


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> I really dont get how Titan's price is AMD's fault.
> 
> It is a part of the equation, but not entirely AMD's fault.
> 
> Blame yourself for even considering spending $1000 on any gpu. That is where the main problem is.


GK100 was originally slated to be the GTX 680 but it was late so Nvidia used GK104 instead because the 7970 wasnt the performance threat Nvidia thought it would be. Full GK104 was originally planned on being the 660 Ti.

Nvidia's high prices can be directly blamed on Amd and their lack of competition.


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> I was making that point for price/performance ratio
> 
> A 780 classified matches a titan for $300 less
> 
> But if you want to look at overclocked
> 
> http://hwbot.org/benchmark/3dmark_-_fire_strike/rankings?cores=1#start=0#interval=20
> 
> gee look which card is #1


Um that's Kingpin and he "Chose" to push a 780 to the 1800 mark on LN2 with all the hard mods. He chose not to do a Titan for that run. So comparing it is apples to oranges. It's also a practical issue. If Firestrike doesn't need the full 6G of video memory and if he could capture the record without the extra cuda cores, why use a Titan. I have no doubt he could have used a Titan if he chose to.

Also the blanket statement that "It matches a Titan for less" is not a clear fact. I thought "at the same clocks", Titan beats it's younger brother.

I really hate comparing the two as my other point is that a 780 = Titan =GK110. Everyone compares them like the are separate divisions in NV. The money goes to the same place. The same Lith designers, same FAB, same GPU wafers. Sure Titan has two extra cylinders in the engine. It's like comparing a 6 cylinder Camaro and an 8 cylinder Camaro.

On Topic: I still hope after 8+ months, a new generation of AMD cards brings something new to the table performance wise. This is OCN so my expectations of a new product launch are different. If it's just matching or even beating the 780 or Titan by 5%, why the fuss. *Everyone who wanted that performance level already completely had the means to do so for 8 months.* AMD says "Look Look Look", and we keep saying "*At what?*"









The new slogan should be "AMD, Welcome to February 2013" if nothing new performance wise is being presented when they actually launch this card. I'm ignoring the "Mantle is coming" marketing pitch as just that, until it is proven and mainstream.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> GK100 was originally slated to be the GTX 680 but it was late so Nvidia used GK104 instead because the 7970 wasnt the performance threat Nvidia thought it would be. Full GK104 was originally planned on being the 660 Ti.
> 
> Nvidia's high prices can be directly blamed on Amd and their lack of competition.


GK110 was not even ready. So please keep that analogy to yourself.


----------



## Blindsay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Nope


Post some hard facts or stop arguing, i posted data from reputable review sites


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> GK110 was not even ready. So please keep that analogy to yourself.


I never said GK110. I said GK100 and as for my analogy being wrong



GK110 is the evolution of GK100


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> Post some hard facts or stop arguing, i posted data from reputable review sites


The data was incorrect.

There are plenty Youtube videos and gamers to prove what I said.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I never said GK110. I said GK100


Blame idiotic pricing on people who pay for them.

If product does not move, price has to fall.

I am pretty sure that is common sense.

That is how I can a $100 printer for $17.


----------



## Blindsay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> Also the blanket statement that "It matches a Titan for less" is not a clear fact. I thought "at the same clocks", Titan beats it's younger brother.


My statement was more so like this

I can spend $700 on a 780 Classified and it matches the stock performance of a $1000 titan


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Blame idiotic pricing on idiots who pay for them.
> 
> If product does not move, price has to fall.
> 
> I am pretty sure that is common sense.
> 
> That is how I can a $100 printer for $17.


You're really believe that Titan and the 780 are priced so high because the people who buy them are idiots?


----------



## Phishy714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Blame idiotic pricing on idiots who pay for them.
> 
> If product does not move, price has to fall.
> 
> I am pretty sure that is common sense.
> 
> That is how I can a $100 printer for $17.


I love how you can call out common sense while at the same time judging someone by how they spend their own money.

Common sense would say that the GTX TITAN is worth that much because people are willing to pay that much for it.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> You're really believe that Titan and the 780 are priced so high because the people who buy them are idiots?


You really believe they are priced that high because people wont pay for them?

Probably shouldn't have used the word idiot. I will edit my post.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> I love how you can call out common sense while at the same time judging someone by how they spend their own money.
> 
> *Common sense would say that the GTX TITAN is worth that much because people are willing to pay that much for it.*


Isn't that what i just said?


----------



## Blindsay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> The data was incorrect.
> 
> There are plenty Youtube videos and gamers to prove what I said.


The data is not incorrect, you are the one who is incorrect


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> You really believe they are priced that high because people wont pay for them?
> 
> Probably shouldn't have used the word idiot. I will edit my post.


Titan and the 780 are priced high due to lack of competition from amd when they were put into production. Plain and simple.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> The data is not incorrect, you are the one who is incorrect


I'm not even sure why you're bothering responding to him. All he's doing is trolling.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Titan and the 780 are priced high due to lack of competition from amd when they were put into production. Plain and simple.
> I'm not even sure why you're bothering responding to him. All he's doing is trolling.


Ok keep telling yourself that.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> The data is not incorrect, you are the one who is incorrect


Man, he is trolling you. And every time you quote his posts, I have to read that crap. Otherwise I don't see his crap because I have him blocked because of his past trolling.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Ok keep telling yourself that.


Well, most of the high pricing of the the 780 and Titan comes from Nvidia, but the lack of competition from AMD also contributes. Quit acting like Nvidia could have these prices if sales were getting affected by AMD products. Basically, AMD hasn't created enough pressure to cause Nvidia to drop prices. Releasing a $699+ R9-290X probably won't help drop prices either. The ball is in AMD's court.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> The data is not incorrect, you are the one who is incorrect


They did not bench the games I play , aka games Titan is terrible at.

Thanks for agreeing on my initial Titan`s thought.


----------



## Regent Square

Criminal, next time try to prove your arguments instead of calling people who are right, trolls.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Man, he is trolling you. And every time you quote his posts, I have to read that crap. Otherwise I don't see his crap because I have him blocked because of his past trolling.
> Well, most of the high pricing of the the 780 and Titan comes from Nvidia, but the lack of competition from AMD also contributes. Quit acting like Nvidia could have these prices if sales were getting affected by AMD products. Basically, AMD hasn't created enough pressure to cause Nvidia to drop prices. Releasing a $699+ R9-290X probably won't help drop prices either. The ball is in AMD's court.


If you spent time to read the conversation you would have a better understanding of what i said.

I DID SAY AMD IS ALSO A FACTOR.

Thank for your opinion.

Blame AMD High pricing on Nvidia now. The ball is in Nvidia's court just the same as it is in AMd's court.

I blame it on people who pay for them. Whether it be AMD or Nvidia.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Blame idiotic pricing on people who pay for them.
> 
> If product does not move, price has to fall.
> 
> I am pretty sure that is common sense.
> 
> That is how I can a $100 printer for $17.


You're that cheap kind huh? Always wanting everything for free or dirt cheap. We payed for TITAN cause its worth it, especially before 780 was around. It plays every game better than anything else, it overclooks well, and has great aesthetics. As far as who is to blame for the high price tag, everything points to AMD, you cant deny that, unless you're a blind fanboy.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> If you spent time to read the conversation you would have a better understanding of what i said.
> 
> I DID SAY AMD IS ALSO A FACTOR.
> 
> Thank for your opinion.
> 
> Blame AMD High pricing on Nvidia now. The ball is in Nvidia's court just the same as it is in AMd's court.
> 
> I blame it on people who pay for them. Whether it be AMD or Nvidia.


Sorry I missed that part.

No doubt that AMD's recent prices (7990 and 9590) were based around what their competitors were charging. But in case you missed it, neither of those products sold at those prices, so prices had to be dropped. The ball is in AMD's court like I said because Nvidia still has no reason to drop prices. AMD needs to give them a reason.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> You're that cheap kind huh? Always wanting everything for free or dirt cheap. We payed for TITAN cause its worth it, especially before 780 was around. It plays every game better than anything else, it overclooks well, and has great aesthetics. As far as who is to blame for the high price tag, everything points to AMD, you cant deny that, unless you're a blind fanboy.


I am not cheap but I want all the expensive goodies to cost a bit less.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> *If you spent time to read the conversation* you would have a better understanding of what i said.
> 
> I DID SAY AMD IS ALSO A FACTOR.
> 
> Thank for your opinion.
> 
> Blame AMD High pricing on Nvidia now. The ball is in Nvidia's court just the same as it is in AMd's court.
> 
> I blame it on people who pay for them. Whether it be AMD or Nvidia.


Dude, he is a troll. Pointless to argue with him


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> If you spent time to read the conversation you would have a better understanding of what i said.
> 
> I DID SAY AMD IS ALSO A FACTOR.
> 
> Thank for your opinion.
> 
> Blame AMD High pricing on Nvidia now. The ball is in Nvidia's court just the same as it is in AMd's court.
> 
> I blame it on people who pay for them. Whether it be AMD or Nvidia.


AMD hasn't released a price, there fore the fate of their 290x in their hands. Has nothing to do with Nvidia. If they choose the 700 path, they will blow their chance of forcing Nvidia to drop prices. If they go the 549 route, they will gain so much momentum, and could force Nvidia to drop prices if they wanna keep up. So yeah, ball is definitely on AMDs court!


----------



## Blindsay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Man, he is trolling you. And every time you quote his posts, I have to read that crap. Otherwise I don't see his crap because I have him blocked because of his past trolling.
> Well, most of the high pricing of the the 780 and Titan comes from Nvidia, but the lack of competition from AMD also contributes. Quit acting like Nvidia could have these prices if sales were getting affected by AMD products. Basically, AMD hasn't created enough pressure to cause Nvidia to drop prices. Releasing a $699+ R9-290X probably won't help drop prices either. The ball is in AMD's court.


fine fine i give up with the troll, i just hate missinformation


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> AMD hasn't released a price, there fore the fate of their 290x in their hands. Has nothing to do with Nvidia. *If they choose the 700 path, they will blow their chance of forcing Nvidia to drop prices. If they go the 549 route, they will gain so much momentum, and could force Nvidia to drop prices if they wanna keep up*. So yeah, ball is definitely on AMDs court!


thats exactly the mistake people like you do. why do you think AMD has to force Nvidia to drop prices ? What if they too want to join in the money grab exercise and milk the market for all its worth. Even if AMD launch at USD 550 and Nvidia responds with a price cut how does that help AMD ? it helps the consumer. but not the companies involved. so both these companies know its not in their interest to enter a bloody price war. there are lot of people with money to throw around . so why not look to improve margins.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> fine fine i give up with the troll, i just hate missinformation


Yeah, but if anyone really believes his posts they deserve to be misinformed.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> thats exactly the mistake people like you do. why do you think AMD has to force Nvidia to drop prices ? What if they too want to join in the money grab exercise and milk the market for all its worth. Even if AMD launch at USD 550 and Nvidia responds with a price cut how does that help AMD ? it helps the consumer. but not the companies involved. so both these companies know its not in their interest to enter a bloody price war. there are lot of people with money to throw around . so why not look to improve margins.


Again, see 7990 and 9590.

AMD has a right to charge what they want, but like it or not their brand name does not carry the followers like Nvidia. Better to price appropriately to begin with instead of having to drop prices quickly and risk more bad light on your brand name. Just my opinion though.

And I see you are running a 6000 series gpu. Are you going to support AMD if they charge $699+ for this gpu?


----------



## bmt22033

It always boggles my mind to see people arguing over the price of the latest high-end video cards. At the risk of stating the obvious, enthusiast-grade cards represent the highest/fastest/best possible (single) GPU product. And like every other commodity, if you want the "best", you're going to pay for it. We'd all love to see the R9 290X priced at $299 or $399 because it would force Nvidia to institute massive price cuts on the 780 and Titan cards. But high-end cards are not volume products. They're high-cost, high-profit parts that a certain target audience (the people reading OCN, for example!  are willing to pay for. AMD and Nvidia both want to find that "perfect" price that maximizes their profits on these kinds of parts. I understand the perspective that AMD has a much smaller share of the discrete GPU market than Nvidia and so therefore it would seem that they should be trying to gain market share by undercutting the green team. But again, these aren't high-volume parts. The R9 290X isn't about market share. It's about e-peen and marketing.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> GK110 was not even ready. So please keep that analogy to yourself.


Gk100


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> thats exactly the mistake people like you do. why do you think AMD has to force Nvidia to drop prices ? What if they too want to join in the money grab exercise and milk the market for all its worth. Even if AMD launch at USD 550 and Nvidia responds with a price cut how does that help AMD ? it helps the consumer. but not the companies involved. so both these companies know its not in their interest to enter a bloody price war. there are lot of people with money to throw around . so why not look to improve margins.


AMD could do whatever they want, it means nothing to me. I don't have a problem with the 700 dollar price tag, I sure won't feel bad for anyone spending 700 for a 290x.

I don't think AMD has to force Nvidia prices to drop, but absolutely can if they want to. That's my argument.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdlvx*
> 
> AMD won this generation and if you're flipping out over 290x price you're making a mistake. AMD has a chip with a smaller die that is faster than what Nvidia has. AMD can under-cut Nvidia while having better profits on that item.
> 
> r9 290x is just the anti-Titan. The anti-780 will show up soon.


AMD won this generation.









290X hasn't even released yet, has no official pricing, no benchmarks, yet AMD won this generation.









For the past 7 months NVIDIA hasn't had the #1 and #2 fastest cards in the world, their 3rd best trades blows with AMD's best, you must be living in an alternate reality.


----------



## Red eyed fiend

So every ones excuse for loving amd over the past 2 generations of products was that they offered price/performance, so now that they are throwing that out the window what do they have?............................mantle? Don't get me wrong, if they want to join nvidia in the overcharging cash milking game I guess I can't fault them, but was hoping they would slap nvidia into place with some very competitive pricing. Bringing both teams down in price.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Red eyed fiend*
> 
> So every ones excuse for loving amd over the past 2 generations of products was that they offered price/performance, so now that they are throwing that out the window what do they have?............................mantle?


Yep, some people are already worshiping Mantle, even without knowing what it can actually do.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> AMD won this generation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 290X hasn't even released yet, has no official pricing, no benchmarks, yet AMD won this generation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the past 7 months NVIDIA hasn't had the #1 and #2 fastest cards in the world, their 3rd best trades blows with AMD's best, you must be living in an alternate reality.


Yeah, not to mention GPUs are used for games and outside of the promise of Mantle, Nvidia has more going for it than AMD does.

I'm still interested in the 290 (the preorder fiasco changed my mind about the 290x I think) but if Nvidia is prepping a 770ti or whatever the rumors say, I'm probably going to spring for that.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Again, see 7990 and 9590.
> 
> AMD has a right to charge what they want, but like it or not their brand name does not carry the followers like Nvidia. Better to price appropriately to begin with instead of having to drop prices quickly and risk more bad light on your brand name. Just my opinion though.


you pick two products which were markedly inferior to the competition. HD 7990 due to frametime issues wrt GTX 690 . 9590 was just a much slower CPU compared to even a 4 core 8 thread core i7 , leave alone 6 core 12 thread core i7. Now why would you compare R9 290X to 2 products with known issues. Atleast if you had waited for reviews to pass judgement on R9 290X its understandable. Instead you put R9 290X in the same category as HD 7990 and 9590. hasty and might I say prejudiced.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdlvx*
> 
> AMD won this generation .


Did it now?









Titan > 780 > 770 > *7970*

Titan was released in February
780 was released in May

It's October and the 290X isnt even out yet but they won this generation?


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> you pick two products which were markedly inferior to the competition. HD 7990 due to frametime issues wrt GTX 690 . 9590 was just a much slower CPU compared to even a 4 core 8 thread core i7 , leave alone 6 core 12 thread core i7. Now why would you compare R9 290X to 2 products with known issues. Atleast if you had waited for reviews to pass judgement on R9 290X its understandable. Instead you put R9 290X in the same category as HD 7990 and 9590. hasty and might I say prejudiced.


Unless you didn't know 7990 and 9590 are AMD's latest products prior to 290X. That's why they belong in the same category. AND if the 290x doesn't deliver, you might as well call it a trio.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> you pick two products which were markedly inferior to the competition. HD 7990 due to frametime issues wrt GTX 690 . 9590 was just a much slower CPU compared to even a 4 core 8 thread core i7 , leave alone 6 core 12 thread core i7. Now why would you compare R9 290X to 2 products with known issues. Atleast if you had waited for reviews to pass judgement on R9 290X its understandable. Instead you put R9 290X in the same category as HD 7990 and 9590. hasty and might I say prejudiced.


No, I am just trying to save them having to drop the price anyway. So why is R9-290X so different that AMD is not going to market it badly? I mean the presentation for it was already botched. And who knows if they are going to handle mantle correctly at this point. It could be another "issue" they have to constantly work on.

You didn't answer my question. Are you going to support AMD's efforts with the 290X by purchasing one even if the price is $699+? Put you money where your bias resides.


----------



## Red eyed fiend

It most likely will deliver, but not at a decent price/performance as it will most likely just match the 780 while being priced around about the same. I say not a decent price/performance as the 780 is not a good price performance compared to previous generations. Sure its better than a titan, but that was most likely they made the titan so they could cut it down and make the 780 look like a great buy at $200 over last generations.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> GK100 was originally slated to be the GTX 680 but it was late so Nvidia used GK104 instead because the 7970 wasnt the performance threat Nvidia thought it would be. Full GK104 was originally planned on being the 660 Ti.
> 
> Nvidia's high prices can be directly blamed on Amd and their lack of competition.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Titan and the 780 are priced high due to lack of competition from amd when they were put into production. Plain and simple.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why these guys have such a hard time grasping this.

7970 started out $550, than GK104 was able to beat it at launch. 7970 pricing went downhill from there.

IF the 680 was slower than 7970, AMD wouldn't have needed to drop prices. Do you remember some of the news that came out, where AMD didn't want to drop prices at first, because the 680 was sold out everywhere?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Sorry I missed that part.
> 
> No doubt that AMD's recent prices (7990 and 9590) were based around what their competitors were charging. But in case you missed it, neither of those products sold at those prices, so prices had to be dropped. The ball is in AMD's court like I said because Nvidia still has no reason to drop prices. AMD needs to give them a reason.


With the 9590, AMD missed the MOST important requirement of having a "Halo Premium Product"

It MUST be the fastest product on the market, not just an overclocked processor they sell for $200.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Yeah, not to mention GPUs are used for games and outside of the promise of Mantle, Nvidia has more going for it than AMD does.
> 
> I'm still interested in the 290 (the preorder fiasco changed my mind about the 290x I think) but if Nvidia is prepping a 770ti or whatever the rumors say, I'm probably going to spring for that.


The 290 will likely be $499 and go up against the 770TI at that price point.

280X - $299
290X - $699

That gap is way too big.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> Unless you didn't know 7990 and 9590 are AMD's latest products prior to 290X. That's why they belong in the same category. AND if the 290x doesn't deliver, you might as well call it a trio.


Yep, yep and yep.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Red eyed fiend*
> 
> It most likely will deliver, but not at a decent price/performance as it will most likely just match the 780 while being priced around about the same. I say not a decent price/performance as the 780 is not a good price performance compared to previous generations. Sure its better than a titan, but that was most likely they made the titan so they could cut it down and make the 780 look like a great buy at $200 over last generations.


This reminds me. The 780 has been mentioned as overpriced and a bad price to performance purchase by AMD guys since it was released. Why is it suddenly okay for AMD to do the same thing now? Because of Mantle?


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Sorry I missed that part.
> 
> *No doubt that AMD's recent prices (7990 and 9590) were based around what their competitors were charging*. But in case you missed it, neither of those products sold at those prices, so prices had to be dropped. The ball is in AMD's court like I said because Nvidia still has no reason to drop prices. AMD needs to give them a reason.


yes that in bold is people voting with their wallets and further prove what I said.

If it doesn't sell, price goes down.

Nvidia doesn't drop prices because they have costumers like you.

I sure as hell wasn't gonna pay $550 for a 7970 or $350 for a 7870.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Did it now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Titan > 780 > 770 > *7970*
> 
> Titan was released in February
> 780 was released in May
> 
> It's October and the 290X isnt even out yet but they won this generation?


7990 greater than them all.

Just wanted to throw that out there and still will be for the next 6 months.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> 7990 greater than them all.
> 
> Just wanted to throw that out there and still will be for the next 6 months.


7990 was a joke until the frame pacing driver was released and would you really buy a 7990 over a 780? I sure wouldn't


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> yes that in bold is people voting with their wallets and further prove what I said.
> 
> If it doesn't sell, price goes down.
> 
> Nvidia doesn't drop prices because they have costumers like you.
> 
> I sure as hell wasn't gonna pay $550 for a 7970 or $350 for a 7870.


I buy what I want when I deem it is worth it to suit my needs. I have owned more ATI/AMD cards than I have Nvidia cards. I can't help AMD didn't have something I wanted to buy when I purchased my Titan. It is not as if I purchased crap mind you. But yes I did overpay because AMD didn't have anything on the market to sway me otherwise. Sorry for being that consumer, but good competition would have swayed me.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roaches*
> 
> I don't get it...if they're pricing the R9-280X at $299 where as the 290X is above $600, many would think getting 2 R9-280X considering the better value/performance they would get...Even though it means needing a slightly beefy PSU...


Because there is still stuttering. Or wait, that may be fixed lately but there may be the _public perception_ of stuttering, and there is also the additional reason of some people needing single-threaded OpenCL which will find a second card not that useful (e.g. I think madVR and SVP still only go singlethreaded).

It also concerns me to make sure it has completely gone to be honest (stuttering).


----------



## Blindsay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> 7990 greater than them all.
> 
> Just wanted to throw that out there and still will be for the next 6 months.


let me run 4x 7990s.....oh wait

let me run 4x titans... no problem

7990 is hardly the best


----------



## youra6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> let me run 4x titans... no problem


Quad SLI Scaling... No thanks.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> I buy what I want when I deem it is worth it to suit my needs. I have owned more ATI/AMD cards than I have Nvidia cards. I can't help AMD didn't have something I wanted to buy when I purchased my Titan. It is not as if I purchased crap mind you. But yes I did overpay because AMD didn't have anything on the market to sway me otherwise. Sorry for being that consumer, but good competition would have swayed me.


i was not calling you a fanboy btw...


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> AMD hasn't released a price, there fore the fate of their 290x in their hands. Has nothing to do with Nvidia. If they choose the 700 path, they will blow their chance of forcing Nvidia to drop prices. If they go the 549 route, they will gain so much momentum, and could force Nvidia to drop prices if they wanna keep up. So yeah, ball is definitely on AMDs court!


You are correct. "AMD's fate", sounds so permanent,







and it is in their hands, though I will say they are not doing it to put pressure on Nvidia to drop prices...how does that put money in their pocket?. That's our view of it that we see talked about here.

They are not that complex. They are in it to make money. Nothing else matters, and they are trying, in what looks to many of us as a desperate attempt to maneuver / spin this into viral sales by holding the partygoer's in line outside the dance club. That in many of our opinions will likely not happen.

I personally hope they do well and push the pace for competition for all of us. I need to change my signature to "Do we have Fluid dynamics yet in Enthusiast GPU's?"

I can only hope this picture below does not represent the AMD faithful if their God...AMD, ends up pricing "The Card" + at 799 or higher on the 15th


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> let me run 4x 7990s.....oh wait
> 
> let me run 4x titans... no problem
> 
> 7990 is hardly the best


You would be a tiny bit more broke though.


----------



## wholeeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> I'm not sure why these guys have such a hard time grasping this.
> 
> 7970 started out $550, than GK104 was able to beat it at launch. 7970 pricing went downhill from there.
> 
> IF the 680 was slower than 7970, AMD wouldn't have needed to drop prices. Do you remember some of the news that came out, where AMD didn't want to drop prices at first, because the 680 was sold out everywhere?
> With the 9590, AMD missed the MOST important requirement of having a "Halo Premium Product"
> 
> It MUST be the fastest product on the market, not just an overclocked processor they sell for $200.
> The 290 will likely be $499 and go up against the 770TI at that price point.
> 
> 280X - $299
> 290X - $699
> 
> That gap is way too big.


Too much logic, please stop,


----------



## Blindsay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *youra6*
> 
> Quad SLI Scaling... No thanks.


But you cant run 4x 7990s is my point, thus comparing a 7990 to a titan is silly.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> i was not calling you a fanboy btw...


I was not taking it like that. My point was that when it came time to buy a new card, I had better options in the past. It seems ever since AMD purchased ATI, those options have gotten fewer and fewer. I really don't care what AMD prices this card at, because I don't plan on upgrading for awhile. I just think they have a better chance at succeeding if they price the card more appropriately.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> The 290 will likely be $499 and go up against the 770TI at that price point.
> 
> 280X - $299
> 290X - $699
> 
> That gap is way too big.


Originally i thought the 770 Ti would be listed at 499 but after looking around it appears the 770 will be price dropped to 349 and the 770 Ti pushed to 449 list.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> 7990 greater than them all.
> 
> Just wanted to throw that out there and still will be for the next 6 months.


7990 is dual GPU. It must be compared with either 2x 780 or 2 x titan


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blindsay*
> 
> But you cant run 4x 7990s is my point, thus comparing a 7990 to a titan is silly.


You cant run 4x sli Titan without $4000. That's my point.

Oh i we were comparing 1 card vs the other...

7990 >>>> titan
7990 >> 690.

Thanks


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> You cant run 4x sli Titan without $4000. That's my point.
> 
> Oh i we were comparing 1 card vs the other...
> 
> 7990 >>>> titan
> 7990 >> 690.
> 
> Thanks


Titan currently at 590 on ebay









http://www.ebay.com/itm/EVGA-GTX-TITAN-SuperClocked-Signature-06G-P4-2793-KR-6GB-Used-MINT-/171141962391?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item27d8db1a97

Can you guess who the high bidder is?


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Titan currently at 590 on ebay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/EVGA-GTX-TITAN-SuperClocked-Signature-06G-P4-2793-KR-6GB-Used-MINT-/171141962391?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item27d8db1a97
> 
> Can you guess who the high bidder is?


let me guess... You?

Hope you win.

That's where it should have been priced to begin with.

I am trying to get a 7970.


----------



## xnorex

So... when are we going to start a rallying call to AMD's twitter account? Because so far It looks like they're doing nothing for the US because no one is complaining. Ok maybe like 2-3 ppl tweeted at them, but that's nothing!

We need tweets at:
@amd_roy
@AMDRadeon
@AMD

c'mon ppl we can't let them get away with this! not one news outlet even mentioned this yesterday, they're all to busy focusing on Newegg's placeholder price found in the HTML.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> let me guess... You?
> 
> Hope you win.
> 
> That's where it should have been priced to begin with.
> 
> I am trying to get a 7970.


We'll see. It has 6 days remaining


----------



## dir_d

Has there been any signs of the R9 290? not the 290x


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> I'm not sure why these guys have such a hard time grasping this.
> 
> 7970 started out $550, than GK104 was able to beat it at launch. 7970 pricing went downhill from there.
> 
> IF the 680 was slower than 7970, AMD wouldn't have needed to drop prices. Do you remember some of the news that came out, where AMD didn't want to drop prices at first, because the 680 was sold out everywhere?
> With the 9590, AMD missed the MOST important requirement of having a "Halo Premium Product"
> 
> It MUST be the fastest product on the market, not just an overclocked processor they sell for $200.
> The 290 will likely be $499 and go up against the 770TI at that price point.
> 
> 280X - $299
> 290X - $699
> 
> That gap is way too big.


Yep but if Nvidia brings out a 770ti I'd be more interested in it than the 290. SLI scaling has always been better for me.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dir_d*
> 
> Has there been any signs of the R9 290? not the 290x


Nothing except the name on a slide.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Originally i thought the 770 Ti would be listed at 499 but after looking around it appears the 770 will be price dropped to 349 and the 770 Ti pushed to 449 list.


That makes sense, since the 280X will be a way better deal at $299 vs a $399 770 currently.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *youra6*
> 
> Quad SLI Scaling... No thanks.


I'd like to mention, without disagreeing with you, that's it's not a technological scaling issue, but more like a pricing scaling issue. This is because with the 2nd you split the picture in 2 and with a 3rd in 3 and so on. Hence, it's not so much that the cards contraption doesn't scale, but that with the 2nd you have a huge cutting in half but with the fourth you only reduce what the 3rd does by 1/3 minus 1/4 = (4-3)/12 = 1/12.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> let me guess... You?
> 
> Hope you win.
> 
> That's where it should have been priced to begin with.
> 
> I am trying to get a 7970.


So you are completely ignoring my argument of 7990 is dual GPU hmm? You simply cannot compare that way. Titan is not in your market, stop complaining about its price.


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Titan currently at 590 on ebay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/EVGA-GTX-TITAN-SuperClocked-Signature-06G-P4-2793-KR-6GB-Used-MINT-/171141962391?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item27d8db1a97
> 
> Can you guess who the high bidder is?


Oh really...







No, I'll not join the bidding war


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> Oh really...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I'll not join the bidding war


I have a 750 dollar limit just because i want the T shirt


----------



## pcfoo

There is a market for everything...dismishing the 7990 - again - is so "easy", isn't it?
AMD does nothing right - ever - i guess.

And saying that you cannot do octa-fire with 4x 7990s , while you can 4x titans is so silly...
What about mITX or mATX systems to the arguement above? What about 2x 7990s being slightly more expensive (today) than 1x Titan?

Once again, fanboys can bend reality however they want just to prove their point, or go to extremes that are irrelevant: "oh, quad-sli, oh 1440p surround" etc.
If it happens for 0.0001% of the time, it tends to be unworthy mentioning as anything more than the exception.

Mentioning Quad SLI/Quad Fire when you are using a single card, proves just as much as the "expert claims" the guy with the "exhaust tuned corolla" makes about 1000HP Lambo's vs. 1000HP GT-Rs. Sure, all of us are entitled to an OPINION.
Don't upsell you authority in the subject tho...if it is just your opinion or preference, try to sound less cocky and "smart".


----------



## PorkchopExpress

through all this nonsense on prices i keep thinking, would amd *make more money* undercutting their competitors and create a war or keep the market artificially high? id guess the latter.


----------



## PapaSmurf6768

Not sure if this point has been brought up, but if the $730 price is true you're not only getting the card but also Battlefield 4 Premium. For people who would be buying BF4 Premium anyway like myself, and assuming BF4 Premium will cost $100, this means I can get the R9 290X for $630 with $100 BF4 along side it, as opposed to my second option right now which is a $650 GTX780 and $100 BF4, which would be $750 total. So for me, this could actually be the better buy. What do you guys think?


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PapaSmurf6768*
> 
> Not sure if this point has been brought up, but if the $730 price is true you're not only getting the card but also Battlefield 4 Premium. For people who would be buying BF4 Premium anyway like myself, and assuming BF4 Premium will cost $100, this means I can get the R9 290X for $630 with $100 BF4 along side it, as opposed to my second option right now which is a $650 GTX780 and $100 BF4, which would be $750 total. So for me, this could actually be the better buy. What do you guys think?


I think one of the many problems with this launch is that we still don't know for sure (from AMD, for example, whose Battlefield 4 offer page returns a 404 error) whether the bundle includes premium or not. So you are risking $50 that it really is Premium.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> You cant run 4x sli Titan without $4000. That's my point.
> 
> Oh i we were comparing 1 card vs the other...
> 
> 7990 >>>> titan
> 7990 >> 690.
> 
> Thanks


Keep dreaming, Titan and 690 both offer better playability than 7990. FPS is only part of the equation.


----------



## nyk20z3

Price seems fine to me,I paid around $775 for my Lighting 780 and I would do it again.

When it comes to high end enthusiast cards you need to pay to play!


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *youra6*
> 
> Quad SLI Scaling... No thanks.


There is a thread here that shows how 4 way TITaNs scale really good once you increase resolution . 3 1440 monitors and 4K take good advantage of 3-4 TITANS.

If someone is spending 3500usd for a 4k monitor, what's 4000usd for four TITANS?


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> Price seems fine to me,I paid around $775 for my Lighting 780 and I would do it again.
> 
> When it comes to high end enthusiast cards you need to pay to play!


Very true!!!


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Lets say R9 290x is slower than titan but faster than 780 and cost $600.
> 'What can a $1000 Titan do that a $600 R9 290x cant or Gtx 780?
> 
> Nothing...


Don't be so biased against NVidia.

The GTX TITAN, while extortionist priced has its uses. AutoCAD, iray rendering, Octane, etc. Basically stuff that uses CUDA cores, possibly can use the double precision (that is chopped off on the GTX 780), and doesn't need specialized drivers (i.e. all engineering applications such as CATIA, NX, PTC Creo, Solidworks,etc). It's not a workstation card unless the only application you use is AutoCAD. ; in AutoCAD the GTX 680 is super close in performance so that's not even a good use of the GTX TITAN.

The GTX TITAN is not cost effective at all, that's the only gripe you should be having. $800 would buy you a Quadro K4000


----------



## rationalthinking

What is all the GK110-400 jealousy in here for?


----------



## Blindsay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcfoo*
> 
> There is a market for everything...dismishing the 7990 - again - is so "easy", isn't it?
> AMD does nothing right - ever - i guess.
> 
> And saying that you cannot do octa-fire with 4x 7990s , while you can 4x titans is so silly...
> What about mITX or mATX systems to the arguement above? What about 2x 7990s being slightly more expensive (today) than 1x Titan?
> 
> Once again, fanboys can bend reality however they want just to prove their point, or go to extremes that are irrelevant: "oh, quad-sli, oh 1440p surround" etc.
> If it happens for 0.0001% of the time, it tends to be unworthy mentioning as anything more than the exception.
> 
> Mentioning Quad SLI/Quad Fire when you are using a single card, proves just as much as the "expert claims" the guy with the "exhaust tuned corolla" makes about 1000HP Lambo's vs. 1000HP GT-Rs. Sure, all of us are entitled to an OPINION.
> Don't upsell you authority in the subject tho...if it is just your opinion or preference, try to sound less cocky and "smart".










Just because my current build has a single card doesnt mean i dont have experience with multi card setups. i have a single card now because i got sick of AMD's ****ty multi drivers

My statements are based on first hand experience

For M-ITX or M-ATX id take a single or a pair of 780 classifieds, thus my current build


----------



## Tobiman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> Don't be so biased against NVidia.
> 
> The GTX TITAN, while extortionist priced has its uses. AutoCAD, iray rendering, Octane, etc. Basically stuff that uses CUDA cores, possibly can use the double precision (that is chopped off on the GTX 780), and doesn't need specialized drivers (i.e. all engineering applications such as CATIA, NX, PTC Creo, Solidworks,etc). It's not a workstation card unless the only application you use is AutoCAD. ; in AutoCAD the GTX 680 is super close in performance so that's not even a good use of the GTX TITAN.
> 
> The GTX TITAN is not cost effective at all, that's the only gripe you should be having. $800 would buy you a Quadro K4000


Oh please, there are tons of people out there running similar software with cheaper cards and they are doing perfectly fine.


----------



## rationalthinking

Quote:


> Oh please, there are tons of people out there running similar software with cheaper cards and they are doing perfectly fine.


You know.. you don't have to purchase one? When Titans launched there was nothing else like it out there. The only problem I have is paying for 24 - 2GB Samsung memory modules instead of 12 - 2GB modules just to get a GK110-400. Damn memory has a lot to do with price.

Titans are awesome cards and I still reserve my doubts that a 290X will beat GK110-400 clock for clock. Can't wait to try it out though!


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> Don't be so biased against NVidia.
> 
> The GTX TITAN, while extortionist priced has its uses. AutoCAD, iray rendering, Octane, etc. Basically stuff that uses CUDA cores, possibly can use the double precision (that is chopped off on the GTX 780), and doesn't need specialized drivers (i.e. all engineering applications such as CATIA, NX, PTC Creo, Solidworks,etc). It's not a workstation card unless the only application you use is AutoCAD. ; in AutoCAD the GTX 680 is super close in performance so that's not even a good use of the GTX TITAN.
> 
> The GTX TITAN is not cost effective at all, that's the only gripe you should be having. $800 would buy you a Quadro K4000


Nice try....


----------



## Tobiman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rationalthinking*
> 
> You know.. you don't have to purchase one? When Titans launched there was nothing else like it out there.


That was exactly my point.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Nice try....


If I am buying a titan, I do not care about cost effectiveness. I would only care about pure single gpu performance. You cannot view titan with price vs performance angle. It is not designed for it. Thats like saying the 7950 are bad cards because they do not beat a 780.


----------



## Tobiman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> If I am buying a titan, I do not care about cost effectiveness. I would only care about pure single gpu performance. You cannot view titan with price vs performance angle. It is not designed for it. Thats like saying the 7950 are bad cards because they do not beat a 780.


Apparently not always the case, if a lot of people who bought titans didn't care about cost effectiveness, they wouldn't have dumped their titans for 780 classys.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> If I am buying a titan, I do not care about cost effectiveness. I would only care about pure single gpu performance. You cannot view titan with price vs performance angle. It is not designed for it. *Thats like saying the 7950 are bad cards because they do not beat a 780.*


That doesn't even make sense...


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> That doesn't even make sense...


What are you referring to? If you really do not understand, I am referring to the fact HD 7950 from a purely performance standpoint, are bad cards.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> What are you referring to? If you really do not understand, I am referring to the fact HD 7950 from a purely performance standpoint, are bad cards.


Uhhmm no they are not.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Uhhmm no they are not.


Comparing to an overclocked titan yes. If both cost the same, which do you pick?


----------



## Erick Silver

Really? You guys are complaining about the price of a new MSI-branded reference-design card for $729.99 when the MSI GTX780 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 Video Card is $649 and probably not reference? The new AMD card has 1GB more Memory and some new features. Its $80 more than the MSI Branded GTX780. I've seen people pay way more for smaller upgades than that. If the new card is indeed an upgrade. This has yet to be proven in Real World situations.

qwityerbichin. I think that its at a price point to still compete since I still see GTX780 at the same price point or higher depending on the brand name. I see a MSI Lightning for $769. So paying $40 less for a reference new released AMD card is not that far out there.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erick Silver*
> 
> Really? You guys are complaining about the price of a new MSI-branded reference-design card for $729.99 when the MSI GTX780 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 Video Card is $649 and probably not reference? The new AMD card has 1GB more Memory and some new features. Its $80 more than the MSI Branded GTX780. I've seen people pay way more for smaller upgades than that. If the new card is indeed an upgrade. This has yet to be proven in Real World situations.
> 
> qwityerbichin. I think that its at a price point to still compete since I still see GTX780 at the same price point or higher depending on the brand name. I see a MSI Lightning for $769.


EVGA has a 15% off code going on till the 10th. 780 Classified is 599


----------



## Erick Silver

But is it REFERENCE? I keep seeing people say that reference is better than non reference.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erick Silver*
> 
> But is it REFERENCE? I keep seeing people say that reference is better than non reference.


Its the Classified so non reference. The best overclocking card available on the market. I believe hardware canucks hit 1400 boost core


----------



## pcfoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erick Silver*
> 
> But is it REFERENCE? I keep seeing people say that reference is better than non reference.


Reference design is better only if you plan on watercooling, as most companies design waterblocks for the "most popular version" of the card.
Custom placed or bigger components might interfere with a full coverage waterblock, so reference designs are always the way to go in order to play it safe with most waterblocks.

Another case, might be that aftermarket "open shroud" coolers, although superior to most "reference design" rear exhaust blower type coolers for single card setups, might choke each other a little bit when used in configurations with 2 or more cards closely together.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> Comparing to an overclocked titan yes. If both cost the same, which do you pick?


Compare $249 7950 to a $1000 titan shows how terrible Titan is.

Not sure what you are getting at.


----------



## Erick Silver

My main point was this though. At $729 retail for a 4GB Newly released reference AMD card with new archetecture(spelling?) is not as bad as people are making it out to be. After all, how much was the GTX780 when first released? How much is the Titan still today? Their complaints fall on deaf ears here. Even though I will not be able to afford a new AMD card, I would buy one of I had the funds for it.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Compare $249 7950 to a $1000 titan shows how terrible Titan is.
> 
> Not sure what you are getting at.


Means that regardless of price. Titan is an amazing card!


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> Means that regardless of price. Titan is an amazing card!


only way these people would accept that titan is the best card on the market atm is if it was made by amd, then it would be gods gift to the world and the price is totally fine.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> only way these people would accept that titan is the best card on the market atm is if it was made by amd, then it would be gods gift to the world and the price is totally fine.


Exactly right!


----------



## sWaY20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> [quote name="Erick Silver" url="/t/1431059/tpu-radeon-r9-290x-priced-at-729-99-on-newegg-com/660#post_20924613"]Really? You guys are complaining about the price of a new MSI-branded reference-design card for $729.99 when the MSI]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127740]MSI GTX780 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 Video Card is $649[/URL] and probably not reference? The new AMD card has 1GB more Memory and some new features. Its $80 more than the MSI Branded GTX780. I've seen people pay way more for smaller upgades than that. If the new card is indeed an upgrade. This has yet to be proven in Real World situations.qwityerbichin. I think that its at a price point to still compete since I still see GTX780 at the same price point or higher depending on the brand name. I see a MSI Lightning for $769.


EVGA has a 15% off code going on till the 10th. 780 Classified is 599[/QUOTE]

Where's the code? I'm tired of waiting, have no patience for amd, I wanna order a classy.

tappin from the Nexus 4


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sWaY20*
> 
> Where's the code? I'm tired of waiting, have no patience for amd, I wanna order a classy.
> 
> tappin from the Nexus 4


check your email if you signed up for the dual bios card giveaway a few months back.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> EVGA has a 15% off code going on till the 10th. 780 Classified is 599


Awesome deal right there!!!


----------



## bmt22033

I'm thinking the hold up at NewEgg must be because AMD hasn't decided/released the final price yet. Unlike a few of the European sites that are taking pre-orders I don't believe US e-tailers like NewEgg and TigerDirect have a standard mechanism in place for customers to pay $X as a deposit and then an as-yet-undisclosed amount of the balance at a later date. Rather than trying to implement that, they must just be waiting for AMD to determine pricing. Why that hasn't been done yet is beyond me.


----------



## sWaY20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> [quote name="sWaY20" url="/t/1431059/tpu-radeon-r9-290x-priced-at-729-99-on-newegg-com/670#post_20924838"]Where's the code? I'm tired of waiting, have no patience for amd, I wanna order a classy.tappin from the Nexus 4


check your email if you signed up for the dual bios card giveaway a few months back.[/QUOTE]

I didn't, so the code isn't for anyone then? No way to get one any other way?

tappin from the Nexus 4


----------



## szeged

idk if the codes are evga account bound or not, but i dont need another classy, can maybe see if i can give it away or something


----------



## Erick Silver

Actually Titan is probably the most expensive overpaying for card you can buy. As it has been proven that a GTX780 perfoms only a few % points lower than a card that has DOUBLE the processing power. And the HD7990 has the same amount of memory and performs about as well as Titan yet costs less. Most expensive HD 7990 6GB 384-bit I found is $729. Titan is $999 minimum new. You can get the most expensive NON Hydro block GTX780 for $769. So why pay $1000 for 6GB card when I can get the HD7990 for $300 less?


----------



## sWaY20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> idk if the codes are evga account bound or not, but i dont need another classy, can maybe see if i can give it away or something


I was completely open to amd's new gpus, but this is ridiculous imo. I'm dead set on ordering a classy this weekend now.

tappin from the Nexus 4


----------



## Biorganic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erick Silver*
> 
> My main point was this though. At $729 retail for a 4GB Newly released reference AMD card with new archetecture(spelling?) is not as bad as people are making it out to be. After all, how much was the GTX780 when first released? How much is the Titan still today? Their complaints fall on deaf ears here. Even though I will not be able to afford a new AMD card, I would buy one of I had the funds for it.


Agree.

Also, this is the price for the *LIMITED* BF4 card. Limited means more expensive, it does not mean we can just subtract price of BF4 and figure out the regular card price. The reality is these will sell fast, AMD has worked the hype well on this. Think about it, everyone is frustrated and eager to hear specs and price, so much so that the web is a buzzin with this release. As soon as the 8000 limited R9 290x go up for sale consider them gone...


----------



## Draygonn

...deleted for off-topic...


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erick Silver*
> 
> Actually Titan is probably the most expensive overpaying for card you can buy. As it has been proven that a GTX780 perfoms only a few % points lower than a card that has DOUBLE the processing power. And the HD7990 has the same amount of memory and performs about as well as Titan yet costs less. Most expensive HD 7990 6GB 384-bit I found is $729. Titan is $999 minimum new. You can get the most expensive NON Hydro block GTX780 for $769. So why pay $1000 for 6GB card when I can get the HD7990 for $300 less?


7990 have 3gb of usable vram.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bmt22033*
> 
> I'm thinking the hold up at NewEgg must be because AMD hasn't decided/released the final price yet. Unlike a few of the European sites that are taking pre-orders I don't believe US e-tailers like NewEgg and TigerDirect have a standard mechanism in place for customers to pay $X as a deposit and then an as-yet-undisclosed amount of the balance at a later date. Rather than trying to implement that, they must just be waiting for AMD to determine pricing. Why that hasn't been done yet is beyond me.


You'd think maybe AMD would give Newegg a call, maybe before you announce this pre-order thing and say, "hey, you onboard with this?". I mean, you know, they are only the biggest computer retailer in the biggest market after all. No reason at all to get their buy-in on something like this before you announce it to the world. What a cluster.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> only way these people would accept that titan is the best card on the market atm is if it was made by amd, then it would be gods gift to the world and the price is totally fine.


Sounds about right, it seems neutrality is lost here. I really could not care less about price vs performance. I buy whatever card I feel like, which probably would be the fastest single gpu.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> only way these people would accept that titan is the best card on the market atm is if it was made by amd, then it would be gods gift to the world and the price is totally fine.


Never was expecting a post like this from you.

AMD still wouldn't have gotten my money.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Never was expecting a post like this from you.
> 
> AMD still wouldn't have gotten my money.


im talking about the die hard amd fans who would take a bullet in the face before buying nvidia, you already made it clear you prefer cheaper cards and thats perfectly fine


----------



## Erick Silver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> im talking about the die hard amd fans who would take a bullet in the face before buying nvidia, you already made it clear you prefer cheaper cards and thats perfectly fine


Now hold on just a tick-tock. I am not a die hard AMD fan. I have had my fair share of Nvidia cards. In fact I use a dual card setup in my rig right now. AMD for folding and Nvidia for my gaming. My wife has a Nvidia card and so does my brother. My points are not to do with the AMD vs Nvidia debacle. It has to do with the pricing of the cards and their comparable performance and honestly right now AMD has that nailed down with the HD7XXX series against the GTX7XX/Titan series..


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erick Silver*
> 
> Now hold on just a tick-tock. I am not a die hard AMD fan. I have had my fair share of Nvidia cards. In fact I use a dual card setup in my rig right now. AMD for folding and Nvidia for my gaming. My wife has a Nvidia card and so does my brother. My points are not to do with the AMD vs Nvidia debacle. It has to do with the pricing of the cards and their comparable performance.


never meant you, never saw you as a fanboy for either side









yes amd wins in price/performance, for the price of a brand new titan at $1000 you can get 4 7950s that would beat it.

now if youre talking pure performance, then you cant really say the titan isnt the best right now.

also saying " well if i overclock a 780 it beats the titan"

the titan overclocks also, a fact people so willingly forget.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> im talking about the die hard amd fans who would take a bullet in the face before buying nvidia, you already made it clear you prefer cheaper cards and thats perfectly fine


Anyone who is a die hard anything in this market is an ignorant person. Brand Loyalty only leads to disappointment. The only thing NV & AMD are loyal to is your wallet.

I hope no one truly believes AMD is looking out for the little guy. The only thing they are looking out for is the bottom line, and the profit margin.

The only thing 290x really needs to "beat" titan is hdmi 2.0 capability. As all GPU's titan and forward are designed to power resolutions WAY above 1080p....

512bit + HDMI 2.0 = titan killer @ 4k resolutions.

The volt modded, bios modded, overclocked to 1300+ performance level of titan needs to cost ~600$ imo.


----------



## Panther Al

A Photo of a card that AMD say will always equal the performance of the Titan has been spotted in the wild...


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!





Good natured laugh here folks....









In all honesty we all want AMD to come out with a blockbuster: we all win that way.


----------



## Erick Silver

No doubt. I truly hope that AMD has a real winner with this new card. They need a little redemption after Bulldozer.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Panther Al*
> 
> A Photo of a card that AMD say will always equal the performance of the Titan has been spotted in the wild...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good natured laugh here folks....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In all honesty we all want AMD to come out with a blockbuster: we all win that way.


----------



## hatlesschimp

I dropped 3k on GTX titans 7 months when I could have waited for the 290x @ $850 AUD.

I'm such an idiot!!!


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> I dropped 3k on GTX titans 7 months when I could have waited for the 290x @ $800 AUD.
> 
> I'm such an idiot!!!


i dropped lots of money on titans also, but if i could do it all again, i would, its been a nice few months with them, and imo they are worth the price.


----------



## PapaSmurf6768

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> I think one of the many problems with this launch is that we still don't know for sure (from AMD, for example, whose Battlefield 4 offer page returns a 404 error) whether the bundle includes premium or not. So you are risking $50 that it really is Premium.


Well even if it's not premium, 290X is $670 + $60 game for $730, GTX 780 for $650 + $60 game is $710, so that's only a $20 loss there for a card that will probably perform better.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

You should have waited, what we're you thinking?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> I dropped 3k on GTX titans 7 months when I could have waited for the 290x @ $800 AUD.
> 
> I'm such an idiot!!!


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> I dropped 3k on GTX titans 7 months when I could have waited for the 290x @ $850 AUD.
> I'm such an idiot!!!


that's a false argument... and if you wait longer the 290x will be history too. No way your titans are not performing up to expectations. and at 4K res, the 6GB DOES make a difference. I drive both red and green, each has their faults and strong points. I certainly hope AMD can launch a card as good as the 7970 was when it launched, I have 2 that have been running (literally) from a day after launch. Great cards. so are my Titans!!


----------



## hatlesschimp

I was think good drivers, no frame pacing lies, quality control, better support, fastest single gpu card ever, 3d vision, motion blur free with light boost.

I guess I can sell them and still buy the 290x without putting any money in and maybe even get some back.


----------



## Panther Al

And to think of not just the 2k I clearly wasted on Titans, it all pales next to the 12.99 in paint!


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> that's a false argument... and if you wait longer the 290x will be history too. No way your titans are not performing up to expectations. and at 4K res, the 6GB DOES make a difference. I drive both red and green, each has their faults and strong points. I certainly hope AMD can launch a card as good as the 7970 was when it launched, I have 2 that have been running (literally) from a day after launch. Great cards. so are my Titans!!


i believe what he posted was a joke, waiting 7 months for a $150 price drop


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> that's a false argument... and if you wait longer the 290x will be history too. No way your titans are not performing up to expectations. and at 4K res, the 6GB DOES make a difference. I drive both red and green, each has their faults and strong points. I certainly hope AMD can launch a card as good as the 7970 was when it launched, I have 2 that have been running (literally) from a day after launch. Great cards. so are my Titans!!


I'm pretty sure he was just kidding. Lol


----------



## rationalthinking

This is still a Titan thread?


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rationalthinking*
> 
> This is still a Titan thread?


yep welcome to the titan club


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> yep welcome to the titan club


You guys are making me ROFL


----------



## skupples

if 290x doesn't have HDMI 2.0 w/ all that bus width, i will be surprised & disappointed.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *provost*
> 
> You guys are making me ROFL


its good to have laughs on ocn for a change, the past weeks have been nothing but anger lol.


----------



## Regent Square

Pre orders start today or tomorrow?


----------



## szeged

if amd continues, we can get pre orders going right after the actual launch of the cards


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> if 290x doesn't have HDMI 2.0 w/ all that bus width, i will be surprised & disappointed.


It most likely will. They were running 4k surround just fine. I don't see them not having it.


----------



## hatlesschimp

All the Titan boys hitting the thread at once was like doing a drive by shooting. Lol


----------



## rationalthinking

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Pre orders start today or tomorrow?


February 18th, 2013 I believe.

Oh wait.. the 290X?


----------



## wstanci3

This thread has been hijacked.
Yeah, I'm good with that.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Pre orders start today or tomorrow?


October 3rd.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> October 3rd.


jk amd


----------



## GunSkillet

Why are people saying that if it is similar to Titan Performance, it has to be priced <$600? Isn't the Titan still $1000+ or am I missing something?


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rationalthinking*
> 
> February 18th, 2013 I believe.
> 
> Oh wait.. the 290X?


I am talking about 290x XXL non premium


----------



## hatlesschimp

Lol

so when can we expect the full details of the card? It's amazing that people would preorder something without knowing full facts of the item.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> Lol
> 
> so when can we expect the full details of the card? It's amazing that people would preorder something without knowing full facts of the item.


Once enough pre orders have been made. The more preorders the higher the price.


----------



## Vesku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> Lol
> 
> so when can we expect the full details of the card? It's amazing that people would preorder something without knowing full facts of the item.


What little evidence is out there points to NDA lift on Oct 15th. I imagine non-special editions would hit retail shortly after that.


----------



## szeged

but amd is our friends, they dont want our money, they want to sell us the best products for as cheap as possible, the prices are obviously placeholders, amd wouldnt dare sell a card thats good for over 499.99


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> but amd is our friends, they dont want our money, they want to sell us the best products for as cheap as possible, the prices are obviously placeholders, amd wouldnt dare sell a card thats good for over 499.99
> 
> At 499 I would totally buy one to play with.


----------



## szeged

im gonna get one(maybe two) to play with and bench off vs 780 and titan no matter the price, but those thinking amd wants to just give away these cards because theyre our friends....







lemme get what youre drinking.


----------



## thestache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> its good to have laughs on ocn for a change, the past weeks have been nothing but anger lol.


Always is leading up to and after a flagship GPU launch. Lol.


----------



## OccamRazor

Sorry wrong thread, for a moment looked like i was in T.O.C.

so many Titan owners...


----------



## greydor

Found a GTX 780 for $500 on ebay shipped BIN, so I pulled the trigger. Sorry, AMD.

But look, I stayed nVidia not just for the price of that card, but because I actually want PhysX in some games and some of the FX options. AMD simply doesn't have that, even if Mantle is a good selling point. However, always keep your options open and pay what you prefer. They're both great companies.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *greydor*
> 
> Found a GTX 780 for $500 on ebay shipped BIN, so I pulled the trigger. Sorry, AMD.


the ebay kung fu is strong in this one


----------



## greydor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *greydor*
> 
> Found a GTX 780 for $500 on ebay shipped BIN, so I pulled the trigger. Sorry, AMD.
> 
> 
> 
> the ebay kung fu is strong in this one
Click to expand...

I bragged, I know. But seriously. A 4-month old GTX 780 for $500 is freaking fantastic.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OccamRazor*
> 
> Sorry wrong thread, for a moment looked like i was in T.O.C.
> 
> so many Titan owners...


They summoned the Titan!


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *greydor*
> 
> I bragged, I know. But seriously. A 4-month old GTX 780 for $500 is freaking fantastic.


i would have bought it instantly so i could resell it for $600







lucky you found it first lol


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

That is an awesome deal provided they actually send it to ya (ask szeged about that one)!


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> That is an awesome deal provided they actually send it to ya (ask szeged about that one)!


yeah..ebay scammers can all burn imo







atleast i got my money back lol. i checked the guys ebay page earlier and hes got a ton of negative feedback now about the titan he tried to sell us.


----------



## greydor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> That is an awesome deal provided they actually send it to ya (ask szeged about that one)!


Hey, don't say that! He had 100% feedback


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *greydor*
> 
> Hey, don't say that! He had 100% feedback


the guy i tried to buy a titan from had 100% positive feedback, until recently, i checked again, hes got like 30 negative feedbacks from the titan he tried to scam us all with lol


----------



## greydor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *greydor*
> 
> Hey, don't say that! He had 100% feedback
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the guy i tried to buy a titan from had 100% positive feedback, until recently, i checked again, hes got like 30 negative feedbacks from the titan he tried to scam us all with lol
Click to expand...

It looks like he's sold 1-2 others just like it with positive feedback. Last Gigabyte 780 he sold was back in August for $550; positive feedback received.


----------



## szeged

well lets hope yours arrives safely so you can give him another positive feedback









lets also hope it doesnt have a stroke when it gets any type of overclock lol


----------



## wstanci3

Lol, you are going to give him nightmares. Stahp.


----------



## greydor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> Lol, you are going to give him nightmares. Stahp.


THIS!


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I'm sure it will be fine. Just odd that it was so cheap.


----------



## skupples

I much rather pay for raw performance in all games, then buy a gpu that may be gimped in the other 49% of the market EA doesn't dominate.(that was an extremely biased comment, i know)

Mantle just makes no sense to me as a proprietary piece of software, for AMD ONRY... Unless it's 99% gimmick, and it's putting a name on something everyone is doing in next gen games.

I hate that physX is proprietary, and so has AMD for all of recorded history. Havok physics are just meh.

*that aside, 290x will beat titan in many high end applicationss if it's hdmi 2.0 & that is sexy.*

That means by the time maxwell refresher comes around, the 1,000$ gpu's from NV wont be necessary for 11million pixel + (780 does it well, i know)


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I think Mantle is a brilliant business move by AMD but may not be so good for us consumers. Will just have to wait and see if it takes off or not...


----------



## Phishy714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> *that aside, 290x will beat titan in many high end applicationss if it's hdmi 2.0 & that is sexy.*


I would love to see the logic in this statement. Unreleased, untested card will do better than another in "high end" applications because of HDMI 2.0?


----------



## Sheyster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I think Mantle is a brilliant business move by AMD but may not be so good for us consumers. Will just have to wait and see if it takes off or not...


It's only brilliant if it's good. It has the potential to be a complete debacle. Guess we'll see...


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Lol, most brilliant decisions involve a lot of risk. We won't know whether this is a win or a fail for some time though...


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Majin SSJ Eric What is with female pictures in your profile? It makes u look like a raper of innocents.


Rape is the first thing that comes to your mind when you look at a picture of a girl? That makes YOU like a rapist.


----------



## GTR Mclaren

So when are we getting reviews ??


----------



## hatlesschimp

What the?????

Uncalled lads.


----------



## kzone75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GTR Mclaren*
> 
> So when are we getting reviews ??


Next week?

Very subtle blurring, btw.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Majin SSJ Eric What is with female pictures in your profile? It makes u look like a raper of innocents.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> Rape is the first thing that comes to your mind when you look at a picture of a girl? That makes YOU like a rapist.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Let's record it cuz this not happen everyday. or it doe's?


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GTR Mclaren*
> 
> So when are we getting reviews ??


15th


----------



## skyn3t

for $729.99 - $49.99 for BF4 = $679.01 so no free BF4 anyways. Nvidia does it better when come to promotion. Or Am wrong









for that price you can get a 780 at egg for 659.99 buy BF4 Premium for 49.99 and save $20.01


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> for $729.99 - $49.99 for BF4 = $679.01 so no free BF4 anyways. Nvidia does it better when come to promotion. Or Am wrong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for that price you can get a 780 at egg for 659.99 buy BF4 Premium for 49.99 and save $20.01


But the 290x is the better card... Wait for it... The titan/780 brigade is coming...


----------



## Yungbenny911

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> *But the 290x is the better card...* Wait for it... The titan/780 brigade is coming...


What? Where? How? Proof?








..... Oh well... I'll just keep my mouth shut till this card is official on OCN, You guys will see that it will trade blows with a 780. Mark my words


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> But the 290x is the better card... Wait for it... The titan/780 brigade is coming...


want to share the confirmed proof with the rest of us? or are you referencing those "leaked rumor benchmarks" still?

if were going by leaked rumors, then the rumor about the 290x only hitting 1400mhz on ln2 must be true as well right?


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> But the 290x is the better card... Wait for it... The titan/780 brigade is coming...


The logic brigade you mean. I have neither of those cards but wait a few days for the independent reviews to come in before *concluding*.


----------



## gooface

well guess what, I have been enjoying my GTX 780 for many moons now and finally AMD is releasing a card that compares to it but for more bones.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> But the 290x is the better card... Wait for it... The titan/780 brigade is coming...


so you just agree then with the prices I listed in my post cuz no free game are coming with that GPU. hey you said better card. I thought you going to say this is the best card.

rumors is rumors to get a 1400Mhz only in LN2 it means no god at all. I can clock my 780 to 1372 under water I bet it under LN2 it does break the 1400 leaked humors in the first try







and blink my green tail light for the 290x.


----------



## szeged

ive had lots of fun with my titans for the past months, glad i got them early, the price was worth it for me, now its amd users turn to be happy, cant wait to fire up the benchs again, its getting kinda boring every result posted in our top 30 threads are 780s and titans







cant wait to see some red again.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> ive had lots of fun with my titans for the past months, glad i got them early, the price was worth it for me, now its amd users turn to be happy, cant wait to fire up the benchs again, its getting kinda boring every result posted in our top 30 threads are 780s and titans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cant wait to see some red again.


I think even after the 290x launch, The Top 30 Valley will be the same LOL


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I think even after the 290x launch, The Top 30 Valley will be the same LOL


if that 1400mhz on ln2 rumor is true then things wont be looking good, my best titan can do just under 1400mhz on water, i need to put just a little bit more volts into it to break 1400, but i havent gotten around to doing it yet









new classified 780 arrives monday, maybe i can get this one to 1500+ without having to tune down the memory this time


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> I think even after the 290x launch, The Top 30 Valley will be the same LOL


I certainly hope not. It would be much more interesting if they were close and we could get back to the 7970 vs 680 days...


----------



## OccamRazor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> if that 1400mhz on ln2 rumor is true then things wont be looking good, my best titan can do just under 1400mhz on water, i need to put just a little bit more volts into it to break 1400, but i havent gotten around to doing it yet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> new classified 780 arrives monday, maybe i can get this one to 1500+ without having to tune down the memory this time


Heck! even my crap weakest Titan can do 1400mhz on water, so! BRING IT ON!!!!!!


















(Sorry i can´t help it)


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I certainly hope not. It would be much more interesting if they were close and we could get back to the 7970 vs 680 days...


let's see how it goes , only time will speak for it.

dang I wish I know how big is the OCN HIT when come to new GPU launch site get's slow as hell. pplz keep coming from everywhere.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OccamRazor*
> 
> Heck! even my crap weakest Titan can do 1400mhz on water, so! BRING IT ON!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Sorry i can´t help it)


My Big brother you have two chooses , stay in the bathroom with a lap to continue reading this or get one of those


----------



## Vesku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> so you just agree then with the prices I listed in my post cuz no free game are coming with that GPU. hey you said better card. I thought you going to say this is the best card.
> 
> rumors is rumors to get a 1400Mhz only in LN2 it means no god at all. I can clock my 780 to 1372 under water I bet it under LN2 it does break the 1400 leaked humors in the first try
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and blink my green tail light for the 290x.


You mean the pre-order limited quantity BF4 SUPER UBER SPECIAL EDITION cards aren't being discounted?


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vesku*
> 
> You mean the pre-order limited quantity BF4 SUPER UBER SPECIAL EDITION cards aren't being discounted?


what is the difference? you going to run,fly.drive, navigate and get shot in the face like me and everyone else.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OccamRazor*
> 
> Heck! even my crap weakest Titan can do 1400mhz on water, so! BRING IT ON!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Sorry i can´t help it)


i only have two really good titans, the one that can do 1400ish with 1.3v and the other that can do just under 1400 with 1.3v i gotta push 1.35 into them and see how it goes


----------



## OccamRazor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> My Big brother you have two chooses , stay in the bathroom with a lap to continue reading this or get one of those


----------



## OccamRazor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> i only have two really good titans, the one that can do 1400ish with 1.3v and the other that can do just under 1400 with 1.3v i gotta push 1.35 into them and see how it goes


Actually both my installed Titans are crap (68.9/69.5) ASIC but love voltage, both can do [email protected]! With my new rads temps are in control! (65/70C)


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OccamRazor*
> 
> Actually both my installed Titans are crap (68.9/69.5) ASIC but love voltage, both can do [email protected]! With my new rads temps are in control! (65/70C)


nice









i wanna put mine under 1.4v but i think i should do 1.35v first to see if i dont blow something up







i did 1.33v on one for just a few runs, the hydro copper blocks really suck for vrm cooling


----------



## OccamRazor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> nice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i wanna put mine under 1.4v but i think i should do 1.35v first to see if i dont blow something up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i did 1.33v on one for just a few runs, the hydro copper blocks really suck for vrm cooling


yeah, get some EK´s and OC those "suckers" !!!









(They are indeed suckers just look at Alatar´s avatars sig... 500W suckers!!!







)


----------



## MrfingerIII

How is it Priced 729.00 when there is no price listed yet I just went to new egg and they only have one that has no pricing


----------



## Joa3d43

...here is s.th. you don't see every day: http://www.overclock.net/t/1431287/amd-r9-series-owners-club/10#post_20926563


----------



## Dart06

It still hasn't been up for pre order in NA? Good lord.


----------



## 6steven9

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrfingerIII*
> 
> How is it Priced 729.00 when there is no price listed yet I just went to new egg and they only have one that has no pricing


Because someone used the feature in Chrome and FF that allowed you to see the source code of a website "show source" and it said teh price since then newegg fixed the hole....


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OccamRazor*


you do how how to use it right ? don't think in doing what i think you going to think in doing kkkakakakaka


----------



## fleetfeather

Interesting... A Screeny from a OCN member....

http://www.overclock.net/t/1431287/lightbox/post/20926563/id/1687048


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Interesting... A Screeny from a OCN member....
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1431287/lightbox/post/20926563/id/1687048


So, 384-bit bus and 3GB

44 ROP's

OC'ed to 1350MHz. So pretty much all rumors were false if this SS is legit ;D

EDIT: Or this is 290 or 280x


----------



## Phelan

I'm calling BS there, unless it's a 290 and not a 290X. The massive mempry clock doesn't sound right or efficient...


----------



## Jared Pace

it's just messed up with an old driver and old gpuz. If he had 13.250.00.00 Volcanic Island preview driver & GPUZ 7.3 it would probably show the correct data.


----------



## fleetfeather

Well the SS is posted in the "R9 Series" owners club, not specifically the R9 290x owners club (was there a Titan owners club established before the specs were released??)


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> So, 384-bit bus and 3GB
> 
> 44 ROP's
> 
> OC'ed to 1350MHz. So pretty much all rumors were false if this SS is legit ;D
> 
> EDIT: Or this is 290 or 280x


From later posts in the thread looks like it was a 280 or 280X.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> From later posts in the thread looks like it was a 280 or 280X.


Too many SP's for 280. 2.8k

But the SS is PS'ed or GPU-Z is reading it wrong most probably.


----------



## kpo6969

290x = 44 ROP
280x = 32 ROP


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Too many SP's for 280. 2.8k
> 
> But the SS is PS'ed or GPU-Z is reading it wrong most probably.


Looks like the post was taken down, so I couldn't see the screenshot. Must be fake or wrong though, if it has 2.8K shaders and 3GB.


----------



## s-x

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PapaSmurf6768*
> 
> Well even if it's not premium, 290X is $670 + $60 game for $730, GTX 780 for $650 + $60 game is $710, so that's only a $20 loss there for a card that will probably perform better.


And it also will almost certainly be added to their never settle bundle (old one, unless they announce a new one), which right now would mean 3 more games + bf4


----------



## Mygaffer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> AMD shouldn't even be chasing the Titan. We all know the Titan is an ultra enthusiast product. AMD already stated they were not competing in the ultra enthusiast market.
> 
> I will say it again, AMD needs SALES. The way to get those is to compete with the 780. The way to get even more sales is to match or surpass the performance of the 780 as well as match or undercut the price.


You know that most of the sales and most of the revenue doesn't come from the flagship product right? They only release the fastest flagship they can because of the bragging rights and more people will buy your lower end and mid-range cards, were all the money is actually made, if they know you have the fastest card out.

Stuff like Titan and R9 290X are NOT where Nividia or AMD make their money. We get so many armchair MBAs on this site.


----------



## Catscratch

So this is the normal behavior of companies in this industry to NOT release the dates even if it's gonna be in this month ?


----------



## Regent Square

730 is not a confirmed price.


----------



## PapaSmurf6768

I don't know if anyone subscribes to Newegg TV on Youtube, but in their most recent episode of Yolk'd (their news show), they referenced the rumored $730 pricing on their site but then ALSO made sure to mention that prerelease prices have shifted in the past and that no one should assume this is the final price. I don't know if it means anything, but they did make a point out of it on the show.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PapaSmurf6768*
> 
> I don't know if anyone subscribes to Newegg TV on Youtube, but in their most recent episode of Yolk'd (their news show), they referenced the rumored $730 pricing on their site but then ALSO made sure to mention that prerelease prices have shifted in the past and that no one should assume this is the final price. I don't know if it means anything, but they did make a point out of it on the show.


i was surprised they even acknowledged they were the source of the $730 leak. I didn't hear them suggest the $699 price rumour was off the mark though..? maybe i should re-watch it lol


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skyn3t*
> 
> for $729.99 - $49.99 for BF4 = $679.01 so no free BF4 anyways. Nvidia does it better when come to promotion. Or Am wrong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for that price you can get a 780 at egg for 659.99 buy BF4 Premium for 49.99 and save $20.01


Also another free AAA game. With the EVGA code, I think you can get a 780 classified for around 600?


----------



## skupples

290x will be a better card at extreme resolution if it has HDMI 2.0. 512 bit plus HDMI 2.0 equals 290 X being greater than Titan. that being said titan is already overkill for anything up to 1600P.

the real competition between are nine and Titan will be at 4k any other application is 100 percent overkill and bragging rightS only.

the simple fact is Titan is a dinosaur it will not be getting the HDMI 2.0 update this is huge for AMD if they are smart enough to put HDMI 2.0 on their new flagship I'm using text to speech Zero punctuation


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> 290x will be a better card at extreme resolution if it has HDMI 2.0. 512 bit plus HDMI 2.0 equals 290 X being greater than Titan. that being said titan is already overkill for anything up to 1600P.
> 
> the real competition between are nine and Titan will be at 4k any other application is 100 percent overkill and bragging rightS only.
> 
> the simple fact is Titan is a dinosaur it will not be getting the HDMI 2.0 update this is huge for AMD if they are smart enough to put HDMI 2.0 on their new flagship I'm using text to speech Zero punctuation


Ah why would I use HDMI 2.0 again? When displayport provides 10 bit color and 4k res?


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> Ah why would I use HDMI 2.0 again? When displayport provides 10 bit color and 4k res?


DP is 30hz @ 4k IIRC? HDMI 2.0 is 60hz


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> DP is 30hz @ 4k IIRC? HDMI 2.0 is 60hz


Heh, ok, I see a point here. Yeah, 30 fps is definitely not acceptable.


----------



## skupples

from m what I understand DisplayPort is stuck at 30 hurt. It doesn't affect me because I won't have a 4k TV for at least 2 more years same for 99.99 percent Of gamers.

look all I'm trying to do is apply a little bit of logic to the extremely emotionally driven debate that people are having right now. put your brand loyalty aside,realize that Titan is the number one GPU on the market. That's why they can charge what they do. AMD needs to pull this off for everyone's sake. If and wins titan will be #2. Until q1 2014 when maxwell hits.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> from m what I understand DisplayPort is stuck at 30 hurt. It doesn't affect me because I won't have a 4k TV for at least 2 more years same for 99.99 percent Of gamers.
> 
> look all I'm trying to do is apply a little bit of logic to the extremely emotionally driven debate that people are having right now. put your brand loyalty aside,realize that Titan is the number one GPU on the market. That's why they can charge what they do. AMD needs to pull this off for everyone's sake. If and wins titan will be #2. Until q1 2014 when maxwell hits.


OK I realize that AMD beating nvidia would be a good thing, I want nvidia to launch a full die GK 110, if the titan still have the throne, they had no need to do it. Two things, even if nvidia get maxwell up and running on Q1 2014, it will be on 28nm. 20nm not ready until at least Q2-Q3. Even if nvidia decide to launch maxwell on 28nm. It would be GM 104, not GM100. The only reason AMD got 28nm so early is because they used low power HKMG instead of high power HKMG. I think. Instead of the 4 nodes 28nm have, TSMC is only offering one.


----------



## skupples

20 nm is in on the road map for NVIDIA until like 2015 and even then its only for Tegra. Elise last time I checked which was awhile ago. Also a full GK 110 right now is known as the Quadro K 6000

At least last time I checked finfet was required for 20nm process. And that wasn't on the map till 2015. Haven't checked in a few months. Like ts could of changed


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> 20 nm is in on the road map for NVIDIA until like 2015 and even then its only for Tegra. Elise last time I checked which was awhile ago. Also a full GK 110 right now is known as the Quadro K 6000


I am aware of the k6000. Hence why I even think nvidia might do it. K6000 is so heavily binned there must be some that does not past its power requirement. Which would be fine for a consumer card use 1x 8pin, 1 x 6pin. 20nm might be on the road, but TSMC cannot produce it until Q2-Q3 2014. If nvidia really want, they could scale their small die on a 28nm, but it would not be good.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> I am aware of the k6000. Hence why I even think nvidia might do it. K6000 is so *heavily binned there must be some that does not past its power requirement.* Which would be fine for a consumer card use 1x 8pin, 1 x 6pin. 20nm might be on the road, but TSMC cannot produce it until Q2-Q3 2014. If nvidia really want, they could scale their small die on a 28nm, but it would not be good.


Yes, those are what we call the Titan and 780. Those chips that failed to meet the standard of K6000, are then passed down to the Titan and 780.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> Yes, those are what we call the Titan and 780. Those chips that failed to meet the standard of K6000, are then passed down to the Titan and 780.


The standard of K6000 is 225w for full Gk 110 at around 900mhz. GTX titan is 14 SMX 250w. K20X is also 14SMX. I am saying, nvidia might be able to do a 250w+ 15SMX card at around titan clock.


----------



## skupples

I just don't see 20nm GPU in desktop app for awhile. Most info points to that being the case. Just cause they can make it next year doesn't mean it will be sold to the masses. I tried telling people this when they thought r9 was going to be 20nm. But they didn't want to listen either.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> The standard of K6000 is 225w for full Gk 110 at around 900mhz. GTX titan is 14 SMX 250w. K20X is also 14SMX. I am saying, nvidia might be able to do a 250w+ 15SMX card at around titan clock.


Ah, I see what you are saying. I didn't read it all the way through, I apologize.
As to whether Nvidia can do that, I am sure they could. But to whether they see any reason in doing so, that would be another matter.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> I just don't see 20nm GPU in desktop app for awhile. Most info points to that being the case. Just cause they can make it next year doesn't mean it will be sold to the masses. I tried telling people this when they thought r9 was going to be 20nm. But they didn't want to listen either.


My point was that when it can be produced at the earliest, not when it will be produced. But you are saying maxwell will be on 28nm?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> Ah, I see what you are saying. I didn't read it all the way through, I apologize.
> As to whether Nvidia can do that, I am sure they could. But to whether they see any reason in doing so, that would be another matter.


Thats fine. Hence my point of nvidia need a push to do that. To release a higher yield GK 110 to consumers. As for realistic performance increase, thats a different question.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Interesting... A Screeny from a OCN member....
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1431287/lightbox/post/20926563/id/1687048


image pulled....


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> My point was that when it can be produced at the earliest, not when it will be produced. But you are saying maxwell will be on 28nm?
> Thats fine. Hence my point of nvidia need a push to do that. To release a higher yield GK 110 to consumers. As for realistic performance increase, thats a different question.


Maxwell 28nm has basically been confirmed hasn't it? IDK, i'm simply watching from the sidelines, it will be two years before i need to replace my tri-titty... at least...

I am in no means a rich man, or hell, i'm barely even a man in modern day USA eye's... See, what I did to afford my titans was this little thing called budgeting, and saving. Oh, and I don't spend $500 @ the bar every week, and I didn't spend 2,000$ on fireworks past independence day (4th of july for those of you who don't know it's true name)

Latest NV road map for mobile and desktop.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> image pulled....


http://cdn.overclock.net/1/16/16fdb237_wEFe2Pb.jpeg


----------



## Tobiman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> http://cdn.overclock.net/1/16/16fdb237_wEFe2Pb.jpeg


Lol, some of the info on that gpu-z just doesn't add up.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tobiman*
> 
> Lol, some of the info on that gpu-z just doesn't add up.


Is that Tahiti on LN2? 1950 core? wuuuuh? only on drive 13.6? Wuhhhhh?


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Is that Tahiti on LN2? 1950 core? wuuuuh?


1950 is memory


----------



## Tobiman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tobiman*
> 
> Lol, some of the info on that gpu-z just doesn't add up.


I think it's fake. It looks awfully similar to my 7970 matrix on gpu-z.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tobiman*
> 
> I think it's fake. It looks awfully similar to my 7970 matrix on gpu-z.


Well, the 280 and below are recycled tahiti, so it's possible its legit.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Maxwell 28nm has basically been confirmed hasn't it? IDK, i'm simply watching from the sidelines, it will be two years before i need to replace my tri-titty... at least...
> 
> I am in no means a rich man, or hell, i'm barely even a man in modern day USA eye's... See, what I did to afford my titans was this little thing called budgeting, and saving. Oh, and I don't spend $500 @ the bar every week, and I didn't spend 2,000$ on fireworks past independence day (4th of july for those of you who don't know it's true name)
> 
> Latest NV road map for mobile and desktop.


Whats the proof of maxwell on 28nm? There is not information on that as far I as I am aware of.


----------



## OccamRazor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> http://cdn.overclock.net/1/16/16fdb237_wEFe2Pb.jpeg


Well i can set my Titan 3D clocks to 2000mhz with AB while running 2D and then run GPUz and finally take a screen shot of the GPUz !
Really?








Yup run an old GPUz and claim i have a misterious pre-maxwell card!!!!


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> Whats the proof of maxwell on 28nm? There is not information on that as far I as I am aware of.


There isn't any proof. There was a rumor that was right after AMD announced the new line of graphics cards. The rumor suggested that since 20nm wasn't ready for mass production, that the first batch of Maxwell would be 28nm.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OccamRazor*
> 
> Well i can set my Titan 3D clocks to 2000mhz with AB while running 2D and then run GPUz and finally take a screen shot of the GPUz !
> Really?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup run an old GPUz and claim i have a misterious pre-maxwell card!!!!


I never thought of that lol


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> There isn't any proof. There was a rumor that was right after AMD announced the new line of graphics cards. The rumor suggested that since 20nm wasn't ready for mass production, that the first batch of Maxwell would be 28nm.


This mind set has been around before the GCN2.0 announcement.

The proof is in the pudding, if NV really plans to push maxwell in Q1 2014, the only thing it can be is 28nm.

90% editorial, 10% logic.

http://videocardz.com/45417/why-maxwell-will-probably-launch-on-28nm-process (read this before commenting, look @ all the hard fact in the charts, and side articles)

http://videocardz.com/45403/nvidia-to-launch-more-cards-this-year-maxwell-in-q1-2014

20nm will not be ready for mass production until summer 2014, at the earliest, this means if the launch of 8xx is Q1, it WILL NOT BE 20NM... This opens the door for a dye shrink refresher late 2014.

Even by june the 20nm process will likely cost too much for it to be a profitable consumer grade product... Unless you want base models starting @ 500$



this chart's data is sourced from q2 2011, so probably slightly out of date, but you get the picture. 20nm is an extremely expensive proposition.


----------



## Master__Shake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Panther Al*
> 
> A Photo of a card that AMD say will always equal the performance of the Titan has been spotted in the wild...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good natured laugh here folks....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In all honesty we all want AMD to come out with a blockbuster: we all win that way.











looks good in red


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> This mind set has been around before the GCN2.0 announcement.
> 
> The proof is in the pudding, if NV really plans to push maxwell in Q1 2014, the only thing it can be is 28nm.
> 
> 90% editorial, 10% logic.
> 
> http://videocardz.com/45417/why-maxwell-will-probably-launch-on-28nm-process (read this before commenting, look @ all the hard fact in the charts, and side articles)
> 
> http://videocardz.com/45403/nvidia-to-launch-more-cards-this-year-maxwell-in-q1-2014
> 
> 20nm will not be ready for mass production until summer 2014, at the earliest, this means if the launch of 8xx is Q1, it WILL NOT BE 20NM... This opens the door for a dye shrink refresher late 2014.
> 
> Even by june the 20nm process will likely cost too much for it to be a profitable consumer grade product... Unless you want base models starting @ 500$
> 
> 
> 
> this chart's data is sourced from q2 2011, so probably slightly out of date, but you get the picture. 20nm is an extremely expensive proposition.


I hope you do not misunderstand my meaning with my post. I saw the rumor as Maxwell hitting Q1 as 28nm, not the hard facts of wafer costs climbing with the processing shrink. I did read that article about the increasing cost of wafers before. When that was posted, I saw that as a very logical and in-depth article. But now, I am a little skeptical of Nvidia releasing 28nm in Q1 2014.
With the rumor(s) circulating of Nvidia releasing a possible 770TI and other cards, why would Nvidia bother with 28nm Maxwell, IF the rumors of 770TI and other cards hitting the market are true?


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> I hope you do not misunderstand my meaning with my post. I saw the rumor as Maxwell hitting Q1 as 28nm, not the hard facts of wafer costs climbing with the processing shrink. I did read that article about the increasing cost of wafers before. When that was posted, I saw that as a very logical and in-depth article. But now, I am a little skeptical of Nvidia releasing 28nm in Q1 2014.
> With the rumor(s) circulating of Nvidia releasing a possible 770TI and other cards, why would Nvidia bother with 28nm Maxwell, IF the rumors of 770TI and other cards hitting the market are true?


you could be totally right, and for some reason NV is miss leading the people writing the stories.

dual gk110 cards could just be "Recycling" the ones that didn't make titan, or 780 quality check.

It could be possible NV is going do push 28 & 20nm gpu's in Q1, the 20nm being the "new titan" @ 1,000$ and the 28's being the normal line. If that's the case, expect 20nm gpu shortage.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> you could be totally right, and for some reason NV is miss leading the people writing the stories.
> 
> dual gk110 cards could just be "Recycling" the ones that didn't make titan, or 780 quality check.
> 
> It could be possible NV is going do push 28 & 20nm gpu's in Q1, the 20nm being the "new titan" @ 1,000$ and the 28's being the normal line. If that's the case, expect 20nm gpu shortage.


I do not see GM 100 on 20nm, maybe GM 104? Depends on how that performs. sw


----------



## Assimilator87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> DP is 30hz @ 4k IIRC? HDMI 2.0 is 60hz


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> from m what I understand DisplayPort is stuck at 30 hurt. It doesn't affect me because I won't have a 4k TV for at least 2 more years same for 99.99 percent Of gamers.
> 
> look all I'm trying to do is apply a little bit of logic to the extremely emotionally driven debate that people are having right now. put your brand loyalty aside,realize that Titan is the number one GPU on the market. That's why they can charge what they do. AMD needs to pull this off for everyone's sake. If and wins titan will be #2. Until q1 2014 when maxwell hits.


DisplayPort 1.2 fully supports 4K @ 60Hz. It's the TVs that don't support it. Newer 4K TVs such as the Panasonic VIERA WT600 already support the feature without using MST.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> I do not see GM 100 on 20nm, maybe GM 104? Depends on how that performs. sw


Yeah, I really don't see it either. It's just too damned expensive, doesn't matter if it's mass producible, it matters if it's profitable.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Assimilator87*
> 
> DisplayPort 1.2 fully supports 4K @ 60Hz. It's the TVs that don't support it. Newer 4K TVs such as the Panasonic VIERA WT600 already support the feature without using MST.


Thank you for the clarification... Does Display Port pass sound like HDMI does?

The only thing(that we know of) left giving 290x an advantage is the 512bit mem, which will only make a difference for people @ high resolutions. Of course, none of this figures in the actual core performance, as we have next to zero information on that... 10 days till we get our look @ some hard facts. /popcorn


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Thank you for the clarification... Does Display Port pass sound like HDMI does?


Display port 1.2 has almost the same amount of bandwidth as hdmi 2.0, and yes it does have audio pass-thru.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Yeah, I really don't see it either. It's just too damned expensive, doesn't matter if it's mass producible, it matters if it's profitable.
> Thank you for the clarification... Does Display Port pass sound like HDMI does?
> 
> The only thing(that we know of) left giving 290x an advantage is the 512bit mem, which will only make a difference for people @ high resolutions. Of course, none of this figures in the actual core performance, as we have next to zero information on that... 10 days till we get our look @ some hard facts. /popcorn


Fail... I actually want to type 28nm, but typed 20nm. GM 100 will be on 20nm, whether it will be something like the titan,tesla or GTX 880 is a different question. We will have to see about 20nm yield. GM 100 might never come out as a consumer card and nvidia would instead launch GM 110 in 2015 as the 900 series as 20nm yield gets better. Also project denver and unified virtual memory are also interesting either.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> Fail... I actually want to type 28nm, but typed 20nm. GM 100 will be on 20nm, whether it will be something like the titan,tesla or GTX 880 is a different question. We will have to see about 20nm yield. GM 100 might never come out as a consumer card and nvidia would instead launch GM 110 in 2015 as the 900 series as 20nm yield gets better. Also project denver and unified virtual memory are also interesting either.


I see... I don't see 20nm being in consumer PC's until LATE LATE 2014, more likely 2015, but of course, this is just one mans poorly educated opinion.

Now that NV is all buddy buddy with the fed, nsa, & national laboratories, i see them getting it ~1 year before we do.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> I see... I don't see 20nm being in consumer PC's until LATE LATE 2014, more likely 2015, but of course, this is just one mans poorly educated opinion.
> 
> Now that NV is all buddy buddy with the fed, nsa, & national laboratories, i see them getting it ~1 year before we do.


nvidia will make more money selling to corporations and governments with teslas. They always prioritized that. Their die is designed for tesla foremost anyways.


----------



## wstanci3

I'm curious to see how much TSMC will charge Nvidia and AMD for 20nm. Especially for Nvidia, since they generally use larger dies. (I'm looking at you, GK 110).
Just out of curiosity, is there any information that breaks down the cost of a reference GTX 780?


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> I'm curious to see how much TSMC will charge Nvidia and AMD for 20nm. Especially for Nvidia, since they generally use larger dies. (I'm looking at you, GK 110).
> Just out of curiosity, is there any information that breaks down the cost of a reference GTX 780?


There is information on how much deploying 22/20nm gpus would cost, and it costs quite a bit.

There is no information however on the manufacturing cost of anything singular product, for obvious reasons.


----------



## FearzUSA

https://twitter.com/amd_roy/status/386617016062205952

Did anyone else see this ?


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FearzUSA*
> 
> https://twitter.com/amd_roy/status/386617016062205952
> 
> Did anyone else see this ?


Nope, never made a twitter account, and I deleted my facebook the day they removed the college email only rule. You should too.

That being said... That makes sense, good thing they have addressed it to the twitter army.


----------



## FearzUSA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Nope, never made a twitter account, and I deleted my facebook the day they removed the college email only rule. You should too.
> 
> That being said... That makes sense, good thing they have addressed it to the twitter army.


I don't register on those sites, I just browse the pages to see if there is any interesting info.


----------



## Ghoxt

OK this thread went way off topic


----------



## skupples

My bad! Though, @ least the thread didn't devolve into poo slinging...

I apologize for driving this off the bridge. I just find it funny how many people believed AMD was going to be putting out 20nm in 2013.


----------



## kot0005

Dont promise if you cant deliver. Especially on a livestream with 35k viewers


----------



## kot0005

Fk tis sht gets me excited! omg




Quote:


> *BRAWLER365* ‏@*BRAWLER365* 4 Oct
> 
> @*NVIDIAGeForce* Lower the price of the 780 to $500-$550 and I'll by one tomorrow...









*[email protected]* ‏@*amd_roy* 32m

@*BRAWLER365* @*NVIDIAGeForce* before you do check out the new Radeons. 


Does this mean 290X will be arround $550-599???


----------



## TrevBlu19

Get me an Hawaii LE for 350 and SOLD


----------



## thestache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> AMD shouldn't even be chasing the Titan. We all know the Titan is an ultra enthusiast product. AMD already stated they were not competing in the ultra enthusiast market.
> 
> I will say it again, AMD needs SALES. The way to get those is to compete with the 780. The way to get even more sales is to match or surpass the performance of the 780 as well as match or undercut the price.


They never said they weren't competing in the ultra enthusiast market. People just didn't read it correctly and took it out of context. He was talking about price points not performance.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMD*
> They're coming in Q4. I can't reveal a pricepoint but we're looking at more traditional enthusiast GPU pricepoints. We're not targeting a $999 single GPU solution like our competition because we believe not a lot of people have that $999. We normally address what we call the ultra-enthusiast segment with a dual-GPU offering like the 7990. So this next-generation line is targeting more of the enthusiast market versus the ultra-enthusiast one.


Ultra enthusiast market to AMD means dual GPU cards at $1000. Not overpriced $1000 single GPUs like the GTX Titan.

It will most certainly compete with GTX Titan but for less money.

Was a stupid statement to make by them.


----------



## kot0005

Hey guys, I have an idea. We should open a petition to get AMD to lift the NDA on R9 290X on change.org ...


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> Hey guys, I have an idea. We should open a petition to get AMD to lift the NDA on R9 290X on change.org ...


Why would you do that when NDA is up in 9 days?

700$ must be the new 500$

either way, by the time I retire the titans to folding, I hope to be buying 1300mhz titan level performance for ~500$


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thestache*
> 
> They never said they weren't competing in the ultra enthusiast market. People just didn't read it correctly and took it out of context. He was talking about price points not performance.
> Ultra enthusiast market to AMD means dual GPU cards at $1000. Not overpriced $1000 single GPUs like the GTX Titan.
> 
> It will most certainly compete with GTX Titan but for less money.
> 
> Was a stupid statement to make by them.


I agree with everything you say. People `ve posting mind blowing ideas which only deserved a laugh.

On 770Ti note, even if Nvidia decides to go with Titan Ultra they wont price it at 1K as it just wont pay off this time around.


----------



## thestache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> I agree with everything you say. People `ve posting mind blowing ideas which only deserved a laugh.
> 
> On 770Ti note, even if Nvidia decides to go with Titan Ultra they wont price it at 1K as it just wont pay off this time around.


I don't think they can but it'll be interesting to see how arrogant they are. They should drop it to be competitive ($800) but you never know they might not and just push more lame marketing out about FCAT and 4K.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thestache*
> 
> They never said they weren't competing in the ultra enthusiast market. People just didn't read it correctly and took it out of context. He was talking about price points not performance.
> Ultra enthusiast market to AMD means dual GPU cards at $1000. Not overpriced $1000 single GPUs like the GTX Titan.
> 
> It will most certainly compete with GTX Titan but for less money.
> 
> Was a stupid statement to make by them.


And I was referring to price. I have no doubt that the 290X can possibly compete with the Titan performance wise, but AMD shouldn't be chasing the Titan's price tag.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thestache*
> 
> I don't think they can but it'll be interesting to see how arrogant they are. They should drop it to be competitive ($800) but you never know they might not and just push more lame marketing out about FCAT and 4K.


I don't see why they should drop the price. If after 290x is out and the titan is still the best performing, people will be willing to pay for the best. You yourself payed for the titan.
$1000 is still completely overpriced imo, but you get my point.


----------



## skupples

This is why I got my third titan USED under warranty @ 780$


----------



## Joa3d43

...this been shared yet ?

"Entire AMD Radeon R9 280X, Radeon R9 270X And Radeon R7 Custom GPU Lineup From HIS, ASUS, MSI, Sapphire, PowerColor Unveiled"

source


----------



## skupples

ohhhh shiny....

299$ 7970 2.0 I could actually see my self buying one of those just to toy around with. As soon as some one confirms we can crack voltage w/ software.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> This mind set has been around before the GCN2.0 announcement.
> 
> The proof is in the pudding, if NV really plans to push maxwell in Q1 2014, the only thing it can be is 28nm.
> 
> 90% editorial, 10% logic.
> 
> http://videocardz.com/45417/why-maxwell-will-probably-launch-on-28nm-process (read this before commenting, look @ all the hard fact in the charts, and side articles)
> 
> http://videocardz.com/45403/nvidia-to-launch-more-cards-this-year-maxwell-in-q1-2014
> 
> 20nm will not be ready for mass production until summer 2014, at the earliest, this means if the launch of 8xx is Q1, it WILL NOT BE 20NM... This opens the door for a dye shrink refresher late 2014.
> 
> Even by june the 20nm process will likely cost too much for it to be a profitable consumer grade product... Unless you want base models starting @ 500$
> 
> 
> 
> this chart's data is sourced from q2 2011, so probably slightly out of date, but you get the picture. 20nm is an extremely expensive proposition.


Absolute nonsense. TSMC is ready to produce chips by Q1, and they *will* since Apple is their main 'hype' client and their reputation will depend on it, plus they have already vetted most of their clients and they will stay with them, and you have to realize the obvious, that their clients themselves will badmouth the next technology in order to not drop sales (e.g. look at AMD *blatantly lying* to us a couple of weeks ago by saying "28nm is better for our customers") and in general when TSMC has made it clear Q1 has 20nm, and in the end just put your mind to think, that means they have obviously asked their clients and they know they like the prices.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Absolute nonsense. TSMC is ready to produce chips by Q1, and they *will* since Apple is their main 'hype' client and their reputation will depend on it, plus they have already vetted most of their clients and they will stay with them, and you have to realize the obvious, that their clients themselves will badmouth the next technology in order to not drop sales (e.g. look at AMD *blatantly lying* to us a couple of weeks ago by saying "28nm is better for our customers") and in general when TSMC has made it clear Q1 has 20nm, and in the end just put your mind to think, that means they have obviously asked their clients and they know they like the prices.


How did you conclude AMD is lying ? TSMC 20nm is in risk production and nowhere near ready for volume production. yields on 20nm are even more difficult than 28nm due to double patterning immersion lithography.

you are quite clueless to think 20nm is ready for Q1 2014. read TSMC Q1 2013 and Q2 2013 earnings call transcript. In Q1 2013 call TSMC said 20nm volume production begins in Q2 2014 which means actual products would ship towards the end of Q2. they even said 20nm wafer volume in 2014 will be more than 28nm wafer volume in 2012.

in the Q2 2013 call TSMC was being vague about start of 20nm volume production in Q2 and started talking of 20nm wafer revenue being high single digit % for 2014. They also said 20nm wafer volume in 2014 will be higher than 28nm wafer volume in its first year of production , which was 2011. thats some serious backtracking on commitments and points to 20nm not being ready till Q3 2014 or even later. Even when 20nm starts Apple gets priority and the others wait in queue behind. so for Qualcomm, Nvidia, AMD 20nm is more of Q4 2014.









http://www.tsmc.com/uploadfile/ir/quarterly/2013/1J5NC/C/TSMC%201Q13%20Transcript.pdf

page 11, 17, 18

http://www.tsmc.com/uploadfile/ir/quarterly/2013/2TGw1/E/TSMC%202Q13%20Transcript.pdf

page 9, 12,13


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> you are quite clueless to think 20nm is ready for Q1 2014.


What are you on about? *I* said absolutely nothing. The sources do.


----------



## Vesku

Never go with foundry press release information, go by actual product launch estimates. Raghu78 did a good job showing how TSMC was gung-ho and then backtracked later and if you went by what GlobalFoundries said about their 28nm it's been in production for over 2 years.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> What are you on about? *I* said absolutely nothing. The sources do.


some useless internet articles vs TSMC statements in an earnings call . I know which one I would believe.







read it. TSMC were just not able to handle the questions in the Q2 2013 call as they backtracked from Q1 2013 statements.


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> Fk tis sht gets me excited! omg
> 
> [*]
> 
> Does this mean 290X will be arround $550-599???


It could also mean that the Radeon will be 50~100 more expensive but offer much more price/performance. But it could also mean what you think it means. :-( I WANNA KNOW!!!


----------



## fleetfeather

according to Linus at LTT, most (if not all) samples of the 290X given out for review after the GPU'14 event feature NON-reference cooler designs.

source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8WrGJ4GLm4 (FF to 50m35s)


----------



## szeged

ooh thats interesting.

does he just mean reference cooler? or is he actually getting a custom pcb card.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> ooh thats interesting.
> 
> does he just mean reference cooler? or is he actually getting a custom pcb card.


from the sound of the whole dialog, I believe they're just referring to the cooler, rather than a pcb


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> (e.g. look at AMD *blatantly lying* to us a couple of weeks ago by saying "28nm is better for our customers")


Have you factored in cost?

Perhaps it IS indeed better for their customers, who don't want to pay over a grand for a desktop card.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> from the sound of the whole dialog, I believe they're just referring to the cooler, rather than a pcb


oh well, would have been nice to have custom pcb right at the launch lol, maybe custom coolers will help the air overclockers atleast


----------



## kot0005

DCUII? DCUIII ?? or Matrix?

source: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=605601756149893&set=a.186749591368447.43127.179161458793927&type=1

Quote:


> ASUS
> 
> Now what may this be? Any guesses?
> 
> Keep your eyes peeled as we won't be keeping you in suspense for much longer!
> 
> Like · · Share · about an hour ago


----------



## szeged

they said they will release a 280x matrix card, no mention of the 290x yet though


----------



## kot0005

why would they tease the pic of a 270/280X? their full pics are already out....


----------



## szeged

full pics of the matrix 280x?


----------



## kot0005

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> full pics of the matrix 280x?


Wow you really have not been following the news on AMD cards have you?

http://www.techpowerup.com/191938/asus-radeon-r9-280x-matrix-graphics-card-pictured.html

http://videocardz.com/46367/asus-msi-sapphire-powercolor-gigabyte-r9-200-lineups-pictures

Its definately not an R9 270X or 280X.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> Wow you really have not been following the news on AMD cards have you?
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/191938/asus-radeon-r9-280x-matrix-graphics-card-pictured.html


nope it all got boring pretty fast


----------



## kot0005

The teaser pic was posted an hour ago and the Asus R9 on newegg had the part name as DCII


----------



## wstanci3

Well on Newegg, the ASUS 290x is listed as DC2T. Wouldn't be too surprising.


----------



## skupples

Well, there is very little in that article about NV... But it does say Apple wont be buying in on it till second half of 2014...

Like i said before... The process being possible doesn't matter. It being profitable does.

AMD went with 28 for two reasons. Price, & to avoid massive GPU shortage.

I still see it being possible that NV could release a 20nm titan 2.0, while everything else in the lineup is 28nm... That would most likely mean another 1,000$ gpu.

Not sure how AMD is "blatantly lying"


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Nope, never made a twitter account, and I deleted my facebook the day they removed the college email only rule. You should too.
> 
> That being said... That makes sense, good thing they have addressed it to the twitter army.


I'm sorry but what? So you have no friends and are a social outcast?


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I'm sorry but what? So you have no friends and are a social outcast?


people had friends and weren't "outcasts" before twitter and facebook existed. it is a hard concept for the younger people to grasp I guess.


----------



## szeged

not having twitter/facebook = automatic social outcast

sorry but


----------



## duhasttas

This may interest those who plan on staying air cooled with the reference cards... I can only imagine how loud the 290 and 290x are going to be









https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oybtyeRhJXs


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhasttas*
> 
> This may interest those who plan on staying air cooled with the reference cards... I can only imagine how loud the 290 and 290x are going to be
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oybtyeRhJXs


good find.


----------



## Sheyster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> people had friends and weren't "outcasts" before twitter and facebook existed. it is a hard concept for the younger people to grasp I guess.


Word... The only reason I have an FB account is to stay in touch with family, and for friends who have moved away from my city. I don't have random people as friends, and no one from work. If I don't have their number in my phone, they are not on my FB friends list. That's my golden rule for FB.









Kids these days have no concept of what it was like growing up in the 70's and 80's.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> people had friends and weren't "outcasts" before twitter and facebook existed. it is a hard concept for the younger people to grasp I guess.


I'm in my 30's so i remember the 90's







but today everything is done online so when someone says "Oh i dont have facebook or twitter" I instantly picture them sitting in a dark basement with 10 cats watching television.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sheyster*
> 
> Word... The only reason I have an FB account is to stay in touch with family, and for friends who have moved away from my city. I don't have random people as friends, and no one from work. If I don't have their number in my phone, they are not on my FB friends list. That's my golden rule for FB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kids these days have no concept of what it was like growing up in the 70's and 80's.


I'm an 89er so not exactly an old adult or a kid, but I remember people trying to have like 2,000-3,000 friends on myspace. Like it was an accomplishment or something...

Out of those 2000-3000, they probably only corresponded with 10 of them, then creeped on the girls from time to time.

Now the one thing I can't grasp is how older people relied on encyclopedia's every year for the latest information! I mean, now, I could speak to my phone "how tall is shaquille o'neall" and it'll give me an audible answer in seconds. It would've been a crapper trying to answer spur of the moment questions like that back then..


----------



## rubicsphere

That doesn't sound too bad considering the GPU is running heaven and it's open case.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*
> 
> That doesn't sound too bad considering the GPU is running heaven and it's open case.


how does it compare to the reference cooler on the 7950?

AMD better step their game up with their cooler on their flagship cards. That was one thing that Nvidia did do right this past year; their reference cooler is both functional and purdy


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I'm in my 30's so i remember the 90's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but today everything is done online so when someone says "Oh i dont have facebook or twitter" I instantly picture them sitting in a dark basement with 10 cats watching television.


Ah, so it's a personal misconception rather than a generational disconnect. Does the internet ever make you feel like an old man? It does for me sometimes.


----------



## Ghoxt

Definitely a chess game ongoing by Nvidia. They lower prices on some competing models, and AMD may be forced into less options for their pricing tier. And it's not consumers that will be burned or annoyed by this. AMD Stockholders are not likely going to be happy with a "Race to the bottom price wise."

Sure AMD will say the prices we sell at are exactly where we intended to, but they of course are in the business to make money and if anyone thinks just gamers are watching this round, ask a technology markets stockbroker their opinion on the matter.


----------



## rubicsphere

I don't have FB/Tw and I don't have a basement or cats


----------



## undeadhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*
> 
> That doesn't sound too bad considering the GPU is running heaven and it's open case.


It's not loud at all, if you watch the asus and msi videos , those are whisper quiet and they sound almos thte same


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I'm sorry but what? So you have no friends and are a social outcast?


This is a joke right? I have heard other people say this... It must be a joke on facebook/twitter that if you don't have an account you are automatically a social outcast... because let me guess, you actually know all 2,000 people you have befriended right? They are people you see EVERY DAY in real life right? You go out to eat with them weekly right? How often do you post lies about your self, to try and sound cool to the horde of "friends" you supposedly have? facebook friends =/= real friends. Hate to break it to you.

You are lucky we are on OCN, and you are lucky that i'm in a good mood today. *The ignorance of your statement is staggering*.

I see no point in getting a program to lie about how awesome my life is. I also see no point in taking a picture of every meal i eat to share with my "friends." I also see no point in broadcasting every move I make through out the day.

I'm only 28, but for some reason I have this strange expectation of privacy in my life. I don't feel like being a marketing statistic w/o getting payed for it. I also don't feel like having YET another line of information for the NSA to datamine & store for the rest of eternity. So, let me clarify. I had a facebook back when only people with college email accounts could be on the service. The day they removed those rules, my self, and probably thousands of other students across the country deleted our facebooks. & don't even get me started with fake facebook accounts. The American Deer leader has over 20,000,000 fake friends on facebook. Literally fake, as in the whitehouse pays people to make fake accounts to befriend "cool" politicians.

As, I said. I do have a linkedin account. This is much more useful as an adult then some silly facebook account. How many multi-millionaire CEO's have you befriended and had dinner with via facebook? I'm at a point in my life where get money>fake friends.

Good Day.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> how does it compare to the reference cooler on the 7950?
> 
> AMD better step their game up with their cooler on their flagship cards. That was one thing that Nvidia did do right this past year; their reference cooler is both functional and purdy


A few posts back i quoted Linus stating that there are most definitely non-reference cooled 290X's in the wild atm too; he actually said the 290X he has for review is a non-reference cooled design


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> This is a joke right? I have heard other people say this... It must be a joke on facebook/twitter that if you don't have an account you are automatically a social outcast... because let me guess, you actually know all 2,000 people you have befriended right? They are people you see EVERY DAY in real life right? You go out to eat with them weekly right? How often do you post lies about your self, to try and sound cool to the horde of "friends" you supposedly have? facebook friends =/= real friends. Hate to break it to you.
> 
> You are lucky we are on OCN, and you are lucky that i'm in a good mood today. *The ignorance of your statement is staggering*.
> 
> I see no point in getting a program to lie about how awesome my life is. I also see no point in taking a picture of every meal i eat to share with my "friends." I also see no point in broadcasting every move I make through out the day.
> 
> I'm only 28, but for some reason I have this strange expectation of privacy in my life. I don't feel like being a marketing statistic w/o getting payed for it. I also don't feel like having YET another line of information for the NSA to datamine & store for the rest of eternity. So, let me clarify. I had a facebook back when only people with college email accounts could be on the service. The day they removed those rules, my self, and probably thousands of other students across the country deleted our facebooks. & don't even get me started with fake facebook accounts. The American Deer leader has over 20,000,000 fake friends on facebook. Literally fake, as in the whitehouse pays people to make fake accounts to befriend "cool" politicians.
> 
> As, I said. I do have a linkedin account. This is much more useful as an adult then some silly facebook account. How many multi-millionaire CEO's have you befriended and had dinner with via facebook? I'm at a point in my life where get money>fake friends.
> 
> Good Day.










Agreed with everything.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> *get money>fake friends.*
> Good Day.


I SAID GOOD DAY.

(Can't actually post the video because I keep getting told off for meme/gif usage sighhh)


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I'm in my 30's so i remember the 90's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but today everything is done online so when someone says "Oh i dont have facebook or twitter" I instantly picture them sitting in a dark basement with 10 cats watching television.




(that's not actually me)

I own two Basenji's, and live in south florida... So, no basement...

Also Linkedin is where it's really popping off... Facebook is just a cesspool.

High end businesses <3 it when you have linkedin.


----------



## PureBlackFire

Asus R9 280X DC2 sound test:




MSI R9 280X Gaming sound test:


----------



## skupples

But do they have waterblock's standing by for release?

ohh, msi got that coil whine. Or is that fan click? Been so long since iv'e had an air cooler.


----------



## OrcishMonkey

so stoked for not having to wrry about coolers that hang over the edge and crossfire bridges


----------



## Ha-Nocri

damn, that ref. cooler looks sexy, much better than all those shiny aftermarket ones. Too bad temps will probably be too high.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> But do they have waterblock's standing by for release?
> 
> ohh, msi got that coil whine. Or is that fan click? Been so long since iv'e had an air cooler.


According to EKs Facebook, they have waterblocks ready for release


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> According to EKs Facebook, they have waterblocks ready for release


Well played AMD... Sounds like ref, non ref, custom, blocked, will all be coming out at once, or close to it.

Maybe NV & EK can learn a thing or two from this next time around!


----------



## keikei

So no price confirmation yet,huh? I'm still seeing 'price coming soon' on Newegg.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> Asus R9 280X DC2 sound test:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MSI R9 280X Gaming sound test:


the asus cooler is unbeatable for low noise.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> So no price confirmation yet,huh? I'm still seeing 'price coming soon' on Newegg.


Looking @ 679-699 w/o games included.


----------



## wholeeo

I so want to go back to black and red theme for my system.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wholeeo*
> 
> I so want to go back to black and red theme for my system.


Seems red & black is the only option these days w/o having to paint 3/4 of your hardware to match green mobo's.

I WAS going to buy EVGA Dark today, but it's sold out everywhere that isn't charging highway robbery prices. It may be an omen to wait for RIVE:BE... I just need to know if RIVE:BE has better CPU_HEADER pwm function then vanilla RIVE.


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> Asus R9 280X DC2 sound test:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MSI R9 280X Gaming sound test:


The owner of that video reckons the 280X is $299-$329.

Anyone know how well the 280x performs? $300 is a great price.


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> The owner of that video reckons the 280X is $299-$329.
> 
> Anyone know how well the 280x performs? $300 is a great price.


Bro, the R9 280X is a 7970 GE with a new name and hopefully some relevant tweaks to efficiency or something. Wanna know how it performs? Ask any 7970 owner.


----------



## cloudzeng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> Bro, the R9 280X is a 7970 GE with a new name and hopefully some relevant tweaks to efficiency or something. Wanna know how it performs? Ask any 7970 owner.


So if I want to know how a 770 performs I ask a 680 owner? Hell no, a 7970 is better than a 680 but a 770 trumps a 7970 so I doubt the R9 280X will just be a rebrand


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloudzeng*
> 
> *So if I want to know how a 770 performs I ask a 680 owner*? Hell no, a 7970 is better than a 680 but a 770 trumps a 7970 so I doubt the R9 280X will just be a rebrand


hell yes. also at stock clocks HD 7970 < GTX 680 < HD 7970 Ghz = GTX 770 . at same clocks HD 7970 > GTX 770 >= GTX 680


----------



## 47 Knucklehead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhasttas*
> 
> This may interest those who plan on staying air cooled with the reference cards... I can only imagine how loud the 290 and 290x are going to be
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oybtyeRhJXs


Yup, at about 50:35 mark.

To me honest, the whole talk starting at about 36:30 onward was VERY interesting about the R9 290X and the whole take on AMD vs nVidia.


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloudzeng*
> 
> So if I want to know how a 770 performs I ask a 680 owner? Hell no, a 7970 is better than a 680 but a 770 trumps a 7970 so I doubt the R9 280X will just be a rebrand


as a matter of fact, you could indeed get a 680 owner to match clocks with a 770 and watch as identical numbers trickle in. as for the validity of the rest of your statement, a 7970 (non GE) is not faster than a 680 (maybe that's what you meant by "better"?). that fact was the entire reason AMD made that GE sku. nvidia responded in kind with the 770 to the same end. the 770 is a 680 with higher clocks to beat the 7970 GE in stock benchmarks. this isn't rocket science. I get it's easy to get caught up in the marketing (names and numbers) but the chip inside is what matters. stop looking at things and start looking into them. the r9 280X is AMD's version of the gtx770. the top end model has been replaced and now they resell the chip in a lower priced sku. wanna make a bet that at 1050/1500 the 7970, 7970GE and R9 280X all perform the same. I'd take some of that action in a heartbeat.


----------



## $ilent

Guys if the 280X is just a 7970, and say its priced at £250, 2x 7970s in CF beat a gtx titan in games by a big margin, in BF3 at 1440p its like 30%.

Would there be any reason why I shouldnt just buy 2x 280X's if they will be the same price as a single 290X for 1440p gaming on BF3 and BF4?


----------



## cloudzeng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> as a matter of fact, you could indeed get a 680 owner to match clocks with a 770 and watch as identical numbers trickle in. as for the validity of the rest of your statement, a 7970 (non GE) is not faster than a 680 (maybe that's what you meant by "better"?). that fact was the entire reason AMD made that GE sku. nvidia responded in kind with the 770 to the same end. the 770 is a 680 with higher clocks to beat the 7970 GE in stock benchmarks. this isn't rocket science. I get it's easy to get caught up in the marketing (names and numbers) but the chip inside is what matters. stop looking at things and start looking into them. the r9 280X is AMD's version of the gtx770. the top end model has been replaced and now they resell the chip in a lower priced sku. wanna make a bet that at 1050/1500 the 7970, 7970GE and R9 280X all perform the same. I'd take some of that action in a heartbeat.


Ah i see now, sorry for the misunderstanding and clearing it up for me


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Guys if the 280X is just a 7970, and say its priced at £250, 2x 7970s in CF beat a gtx titan in games by a big margin, in BF3 at 1440p its like 30%.
> 
> Would there be any reason why I shouldnt just buy 2x 280X's if they will be the same price as a single 290X for 1440p gaming on BF3 and BF4?


assuming crossfire will be a relatively pain free experience, two R9 280X is an awesome high end setup, undoubtedly the best thing going for $600. at those resolutions the 290X's 512 bit bus won't show any advantages so as long as games work well with crossfire it's a much better solution.


----------



## $ilent

What is the possible painful experiences with using crossfire or SLI for that matter?

Im assuming there must be some pretty big complications, otherwise people wouldnt overlook such a big fps advantage in having two cards vs one if the price is the same or better for dual card setup.


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> What is the possible painful experiences with using crossfire or SLI for that matter?
> 
> Im assuming there must be some pretty big complications, otherwise people wouldnt overlook such a big fps advantage in having two cards vs one if the price is the same or better for dual card setup.


well, if you've been paying attention gpu reviews and news for the past year, frame pacing with crossfire is a major issue these days. crossfire and SLI depend on profiles and games to support the setup and can introduce many more problems than a single card setup. all of my crossfire and SLI setups have been fine in the past, but I've seen many people who have experienced the ugly side of both setups. frame pacing is a non issue with a single gpu and for the most part you'll get consistent performance all the time.


----------



## Yungbenny911

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> What is the possible painful experiences with using crossfire or SLI for that matter?
> 
> Im assuming there must be some pretty big complications, otherwise people wouldnt overlook such a big fps advantage in having two cards vs one if the price is the same or better for dual card setup.


Speaking for SLI:

I think SLI'ing GPU's should be a norm nowadays. Games are getting a lot more demanding to run, and GPU's are not getting cheaper. Anyone still sticking to that "single GPU is the best" saying falls into one the following categories.

1, Not running his/her games on Highest Available AA settings.
2, Running at 1920x1080p or lower
3, has a crap load of money to spend on GPU's such as Titan.
and lastly...
4, finds anything above 30FPS "playable" ....









I've been on the SLI train for quite sometime now, and i'll say the only differences that stand out between playing with single GPU and Dual GPU's are....

1, My FPS doubles
2, My GPU's get hotter

I sincerely don't see any performance issues over here. I can't speak for X-fire though


----------



## jojoenglish85

Im waiting to hear back from roger owner of new egg about my preorder. I sent emails to amd and they cc a reply back to me stating they would take care of me and get my preorder choices down with either roger at newegg or the owner of tigerdirect. Until that happens ill be looking at 780s.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> hell yes. also at stock clocks HD 7970 < GTX 680 < HD 7970 Ghz = GTX 770 . at same clocks HD 7970 > GTX 770 >= GTX 680


When did the 7970Ghz become faster then the 770?



Same clocks 770 > 7970



If you want the real story look at the Min fps. 7970 gets beat down


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> When did the 7970Ghz become faster then the 770?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> *at same clocks* HD 7970 > GTX 770 >= GTX 680


whether or not that's 100% the case is anybody's guess until someone proves it, but I'm guessing "at same clocks" is the "when".


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Looking @ *679-699* w/o games included.


----------



## $ilent

Does anyone know if microstutter is a big issue in battlefield 3 on CF 7970s?

I think unless the 290X is relatively cheap I might aswell just get 2 7970s or 280X's if its gonna cost the same.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> some useless internet articles vs TSMC statements in an earnings call . I know which one I would believe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> read it. TSMC were just not able to handle the questions in the Q2 2013 call as they backtracked from Q1 2013 statements.


You may have fooled the average teenager here you are an expert but your personal bias can not help it but escape the facade. You are obviously more interested in being sarcastic against me than finding the truth. The sources pointing to a Q1 release are perfectly valid, and if you are incapable of understanding a deal with Apple requiring them to have it ready by Q1 is something that will force them to do it, sorry but, you are not worth reading.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artikbot*
> 
> Have you factored in cost?
> 
> Perhaps it IS indeed better for their customers, who don't want to pay over a grand for a desktop card.


Yeah, that would make sense if AMD wasn't explicit. They explicitly said the performance is "bad", not the cost. Though it was an Executive, it makes sense that he would blatantly lie and he may just don't know jack about the technology of his own company.


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Does anyone know if microstutter is a big issue in battlefield 3 on CF 7970s?
> 
> I think unless the 290X is relatively cheap I might aswell just get 2 7970s or 280X's if its gonna cost the same.


Not for me. I'm on the latest beta drivers as well. I personally never had the stuttering in BF3, and i've had crossfire for a while.


----------



## tx-jose

Accordint to Roy from AMD they "have everything factored in" from a tweet that I sent regarding the green teams price adjustments


----------



## xquisit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tx-jose*
> 
> Accordint to Roy from AMD they "have everything factored in" from a tweet that I sent regarding the green teams price adjustments












*Argh*, but we expected a price drop at launch because of the news Nvidia just released!


----------



## hueys

Newegg does put a 20-30 dollar premium on these high end cards, so the price likely comes out to 699


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xquisit*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Argh*, but we expected a price drop at launch because of the news Nvidia just released!


What news?


----------



## tx-jose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xquisit*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Argh*, but we expected a price drop at launch because of the news Nvidia just released!


Maybe thats what he ias talkimg about. Hot dam if the 290X hits at $599 its over for nvidia lol


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tx-jose*
> 
> Maybe thats what he ias talkimg about. Hot dam if the 290X hits at $599 its over for nvidia lol


It would be nice if its that cheap, but if this thing competes or betters the gtx 780 that costs over $600 I dont see how they will price it cheaper than the 780.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> It would be nice if its that cheap, but if this thing competes or betters the gtx 780 that costs over $600 I dont see how they will price it cheaper than the 780.


You should really be an "idol" to buy 280x or 7970ghz s at this pont.


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> You should really be an "idol" to buy 280x or 7970ghz s at this pont.


euhhh?


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> euhhh?


Wut?

Go to newegg, read the comment section of 7970ghz and you will understand.

There are tons of crossfire issues people complain about even up to this day. It would be wise to wait till 290x price and if it cheap enough, buy 1 now and the 2nd one later.

Hawaii crossfire will be different than Tihiti, as stated by pcper reviewer a few weeks ago.


----------



## $ilent

I take it you dont know what idol means Regent Square?

i think you meant to say "be an idiot to buy 280x or 7970ghz at this point"?


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> I take it you dont know what idol means Regent Square?
> 
> i think you meant to say "be an idiot to buy 280x or 7970ghz at this point"?


idol means cult figure, not it`s common use but it does have this meaning.


----------



## skupples

What did nv release besides a rumor about a 790 and some price drops to match prices? 780 is already less then the assumed 290x price which makes me think 729 is rather high unless it comes with 5 games.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> What did nv release besides a rumor about a 790 and some price drops to match prices? *780 is already less then the assumed 290x price* which makes me think 729 is rather high unless it comes with 5 games.


Reliable source that this price is final?

exactly, so stay quiet.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tx-jose*
> 
> Maybe thats what he ias talkimg about. Hot dam if the 290X hits at $599 its over for nvidia lol


Amazing that we now think $599 is a good price for a top-end card, to the point that people are excited to think it'll be that low. Two years ago everyone was outraged that the 7970 was $550.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Amazing that we now think $599 is a good price for a top-end card, to the point that people are excited to think it'll be that low. Two years ago everyone was outraged that the 7970 was $550.


If it comes with free games(3 of em) for 600$, I will buy one.


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> idol means cult figure, not it`s common use but it does have this meaning.


So I would be a cult figure if I was to buy 7970 CF now instead of waiting for 280X?

How on Earth does that make sense?


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> So I would be a cult figure if I was to buy 7970 CF now instead of waiting for 280X?
> 
> How on Earth does that make sense?


It means a fan, just to simplify it.

idol - someone who is adored blindly and excessively


----------



## PureBlackFire

still makes no sense at all.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> still makes no sense at all.


I guess, I will simply it next time for ya.


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> I guess, I will *simply* it next time for ya.


you'll what?


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> you'll what?


Simplify.

Simplified it too much, I guess.


----------



## duhasttas

Is this what speculation about a GPU has come to? Glad to see a lack of news can inspire such conversation on OCN


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhasttas*
> 
> Is this what speculation about a GPU has come to? Glad to see a lack of news can inspire such conversation on OCN


Now I know why Americans have SATs.


----------



## thestache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> This is a joke right? I have heard other people say this... It must be a joke on facebook/twitter that if you don't have an account you are automatically a social outcast... because let me guess, you actually know all 2,000 people you have befriended right? They are people you see EVERY DAY in real life right? You go out to eat with them weekly right? How often do you post lies about your self, to try and sound cool to the horde of "friends" you supposedly have? facebook friends =/= real friends. Hate to break it to you.
> 
> You are lucky we are on OCN, and you are lucky that i'm in a good mood today. *The ignorance of your statement is staggering*.
> 
> I see no point in getting a program to lie about how awesome my life is. I also see no point in taking a picture of every meal i eat to share with my "friends." I also see no point in broadcasting every move I make through out the day.
> 
> I'm only 28, but for some reason I have this strange expectation of privacy in my life. I don't feel like being a marketing statistic w/o getting payed for it. I also don't feel like having YET another line of information for the NSA to datamine & store for the rest of eternity. So, let me clarify. I had a facebook back when only people with college email accounts could be on the service. The day they removed those rules, my self, and probably thousands of other students across the country deleted our facebooks. & don't even get me started with fake facebook accounts. The American Deer leader has over 20,000,000 fake friends on facebook. Literally fake, as in the whitehouse pays people to make fake accounts to befriend "cool" politicians.
> 
> As, I said. I do have a linkedin account. This is much more useful as an adult then some silly facebook account. How many multi-millionaire CEO's have you befriended and had dinner with via facebook? I'm at a point in my life where get money>fake friends.
> 
> Good Day.


Pretty much this.

Only thing Facebook is good for other than trying to convince people you're better than them, just like Instagram, is check out if girls you hooked up with the night before/snagged their number are actually hot or to talk crap with your two or three best friends. But since I have a phone and a girlfriend I don't need Facebook, not to mention Instagram is better for checking out girls.

Could care less about what people think and honestly don't know why people have it anymore. It's just advertising now anyways.

Get money!


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thestache*
> 
> Pretty much this.
> 
> Only thing Facebook is good for other than trying to convince people you're better than them, just like Instagram, is check out if girls you hooked up with *the night before/snagged their number are actually hot or to talk crap with your two or three best friends.* But since I have a phone and a girlfriend I don't need Facebook, not to mention Instagram is better for checking out girls.
> 
> Could care less about what people think and honestly don't know why people have it anymore. It's just advertising now anyways.
> 
> Get money!


Damn, never checked out...

Maybe it is cause I don't go to nightclubs









Edit: WAIT,wait, wait...

U said you snagged their number/ hooked up and THEN you check if they are hot via facebook?! How drunk must you had been that night


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhasttas*
> 
> Is this what speculation about a GPU has come to? Glad to see a lack of news can inspire such conversation on OCN


fun times on OCN.









@thestache: I think you meant "couldn't care less".


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Damn, never checked out...
> 
> Maybe it is cause I don't go to nightclubs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: WAIT,wait, wait...
> 
> U said you snagged their number/ hooked up and THEN you check if they are hot via facebook?! How drunk must you had been that night


Beer goggle my friend...

thestache waits until he has sobered up in the morning before adding on facebook haha, as apposed to having to delete people the next day


----------



## thestache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Beer goggle my friend...
> 
> thestache waits until he has sobered up in the morning before adding on facebook haha, as apposed to having to delete people the next day


This. Lol.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> fun times on OCN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @thestache: I think you meant "couldn't care less".


This is what makes OCN; OCN. People speak out against sheep.
And "could care less" makes sense.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thestache*
> 
> This. Lol.


Mind lending me the bear goggles?!

But seriously, I understand what u mean







Grats, how you have everything good in the future


----------



## $ilent

bear goggles?

Is that new?


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> bear goggles?
> 
> Is that new?


Are you an *idol* for bear goggles?
Did I win, Regent?


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> Are you an *idol* for bear goggles?
> Did I win, Regent?


I am an idol for wearing bear goggles to prevent the effects of beer goggles.

Sorry Regent


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Beer goggle my friend...
> 
> thestache waits until he has sobered up in the morning before adding on facebook haha, as apposed to having to delete people the next day










then







then







and finally









+REP for some creativity.

On the idol note..

You should have AMD as your ex girlfriend who breathing a volcano melted passionate air at you to buy 280x or 7970ghz


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> On the idol note..
> 
> You should have AMD as your ex girlfriend who breathing a volcano melted passionate air at you to buy 280x or 7970ghz


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*


Just to keep under the forum rules


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> Are you an *idol* for bear goggles?
> Did I win, Regent?


I would like to wear them in public, would be fun


----------



## $ilent

No, beer goggles are certainly not fun.


----------



## wstanci3

^ No fun and nowhere the same experience as actually being drunk.
Love this thread. We've jumped from AMD's new flagship to beer goggles. Let's keep this going. Or until a mod comes in. Whichever.


----------



## Regent Square

I will check if they are in stock on amazon tomoraw. Every other e tailer sold them all. They also mention that you will be granted a title of an AMD hard core LORD and be given R9 290X for half the price.

I AM SOLD , Aghaghh


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> Wut?
> 
> Go to newegg, read the comment section of 7970ghz and you will understand.
> 
> There are tons of crossfire issues people complain about even up to this day. It would be wise to wait till 290x price and if it cheap enough, buy 1 now and the 2nd one later.
> 
> Hawaii crossfire will be different than Tihiti, as stated by pcper reviewer a few weeks ago.


In all fairness, 99% of AMD driver' issues should be resolved. The only ones left are the crossfire+Eyefinity issues.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> ^ No fun and nowhere the same experience as actually being drunk.
> Love this thread. We've jumped from AMD's new flagship to beer goggles. Let's keep this going. Or until a mod comes in. Whichever.


I would like to try out being drunk and wear the beer goggles


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> I would like to try out being drunk and wear the beer goggles


It's an instant headache, and or vomit, if well enough intoxicated.


----------



## KaiserFrederick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> It's an instant headache, and or vomit, if well enough intoxicated.


Challenge accepted


----------



## hatlesschimp

DOES IT HAVE HDMI 2.0?


----------



## $ilent

What about the r9 290 guys?

rumour has it it will only be about 10% slower than the 290x whilst costing $499!


----------



## TrevBlu19

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> What about the r9 290 guys?
> 
> rumour has it it will only be about 10% slower than the 290x whilst costing $499!


Will it includes games? or bf4 for that matter?


----------



## $ilent

it will include coolness


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> What about the r9 290 guys?
> 
> rumour has it it will only be about 10% slower than the 290x whilst costing $499!


Very likely to be what most enthusiasts without a mountainous budget will go for! I mean, you have a model that is very close in performance, but it will also have to have a very different price to make sense, hence it is extremely likely to be saving at least $100 with it, and I hope for more.


----------



## $ilent

Yeah too right, its strange, but if this thing does actually cost $500 or less ill be so happy.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> What about the r9 290 guys?
> 
> rumour has it it will only be about 10% slower than the 290x whilst costing $499!


in fact R9 290 could mostly be priced at USD 449. given the R9 280X is priced at USD 299, 449 for R9 290 is what would make sense. USD 499 leaves a very big gap between R9 280X and R9 290. AMD is not going to allow that. R9 290 is shaping up to be the card to get for those who want high end performance but without breaking the bank.


----------



## TrevBlu19

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> in fact R9 290 could mostly be priced at USD 449. R9 290 is shaping up to be the card to get for those who want high end performance but without breaking the bank.


if its 449 with games, SOLD!


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> What about the r9 290 guys?
> 
> rumour has it it will only be about 10% slower than the 290x whilst costing $499!


Well, 7950 is within 5-10% of 7970 clock-for-clock, so this wouldn't be a surprise.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> in fact R9 290 could mostly be priced at USD 449. given the R9 280X is priced at USD 299, 449 for R9 290 is what would make sense. USD 499 leaves a very big gap between R9 280X and R9 290. AMD is not going to allow that. R9 290 is shaping up to be the card to get for those who want high end performance but without breaking the bank.


It's robotic thinking like that that creates false rumors on websites that pretend they do "journalism" by inventing stuff or using a rumor from a random guy that unloads boxes in their shop. It is best to think with intervals (between that and that price) and with vague distances (it can't be less than $100 difference from that other model) because going with exact "that + that divided by two" or other such robotic simplicity is just too simplistic. In all likelihood the price will be set by whatever random model their Economist learned at college or whatever the last Intern forced through their minds by having a cute haircut, and it might be best to talk about the 'major factors' that are most likely to be forcing some vague limits.


----------



## $ilent

Yes but the 290 specs seem to indicate we will get gtx 780 performance at a decent price, which for me is a more exciting prospect than the 290x!


----------



## criminal

R9-290 at $499 would be a good bang for your buck product if the performance is indeed comparable to the 780. That card actually interest me more than the 290X.


----------



## $ilent

Since today the 290 also interest me the most too. If its under £400 and performs 10% or less slower than the 290x, i think it will be perfectl for me at 1440p.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> R9-290 at $499 would be a good bang for your buck product if the performance is indeed comparable to the 780. That card actually interest me more than the 290X.


This man know what's going on.


----------



## skupples

Here I had no idea 600$ gpu was mountainous, you guys must think i'm a multimillionaire cuz i have 3 titans.

no disrespect, but why wouldn't amd do that? Please tell me you don't think they are your friend, and trying to help you out n stuff.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Yes but the 290 specs seem to indicate we will get gtx 780 performance at a decent price, which for me is a more exciting prospect than the 290x!


According to Gibbo, it should be right under 780 in most games.


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Here I had no idea 600$ gpu was mountainous, you guys must think i'm a multimillionaire cuz i have 3 titans.
> 
> no disrespect, but why wouldn't amd do that? Please tell me you don't think they are your friend, and trying to help you out n stuff.


Why do you have 3 Titans and a 3570k?


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Here I had no idea 600$ gpu was mountainous, you guys must think i'm a multimillionaire cuz i have 3 titans.
> 
> no disrespect, but why wouldn't amd do that? Please tell me you don't think they are your friend, and trying to help you out n stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you have 3 Titans and a 3570k?
Click to expand...

upgraded from 3 570s okay? Lol... :-(


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Here I had no idea 600$ gpu was mountainous, *you guys must think i'm a multimillionaire cuz i have 3 titans.*
> 
> no disrespect, but why wouldn't amd do that? Please tell me you don't think they are your friend, and trying to help you out n stuff.


Nah, just more money than sense.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Why do you have 3 Titans and a 3570k?


Because one of them is being used as a coaster while I wait for RIVE:BE to drop!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> Nah, just more money than sense.


I respect your opinion, but find it highly ignorant! I decided to buy titans because i knew it would be enough power to be able to drop off of the upgrade path for @least two generations. It will likely save me money in the long run.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Because one of them is being used as a coaster while I wait for RIVE:BE to drop!
> I respect your opinion, but find it highly ignorant! I decided to buy titans because i knew it would be enough power to be able to drop off of the upgrade path for @least two generations. It will likely save me money in the long run.


Future proofing isn't very smart in the computer industry, new technology is always going to come out, and you're going to want it.
And as I recall, you already had titans, but added more despite the fact that there might be possible price drops and a possibility of the 290x being a great competitor.


----------



## $ilent

Those dual triple titans must be held back by that 3570k.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Those dual triple titans must be held back by that 3570k.


I think he is holding off on a cpu upgrade because he is going LGA2011.


----------



## $ilent

ah I see, makes sense!


----------



## Stay Puft

Dont waste your money on X79. Do what i did. Go Dual processor


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Those dual triple titans must be held back by that 3570k.


Only in surround, and only @ extreme resolutions.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> I think he is holding off on a cpu upgrade because he is going LGA2011.


Yessir! Decided to let the bank account fill up while waiting on RIVE:BE to drop... See, I look @ ivy-E and BE as the culmination of the x79, even if it is a now dead chipset.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Dont waste your money on X79. Do what i did. Go Dual processor


wait, aren't almost all dual socket mobo's lga2011?(x79)


----------



## CaliLife17

I was going to go X79 and IVY-E, but at this point in the game i might as well wait for Haswell-E. 8 cores, DDR4, and a new platform. Though seeing BF4 benches always make me want to upgrade now. But i hear X79 is not a very good platform.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Only in surround, and only @ extreme resolutions.
> Yessir! Decided to let the bank account fill up while waiting on RIVE:BE to drop... See, I look @ ivy-E and BE as the culmination of the x79, even if it is a now dead chipset.
> wait, aren't almost all dual socket mobo's lga2011?(x79)


I went with an older dual socket setup. EVGA SR2 with a pair of 6 cores for 700 shipped. In multithreaded applications it will destroy a 4960X


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CaliLife17*
> 
> I was going to go X79 and IVY-E, but at this point in the game i might as well wait for Haswell-E. 8 cores, DDR4, and a new platform. Though seeing BF4 benches always make me want to upgrade now. But i hear X79 is not a very good platform.


If that's your mind set, you may as well wait for broadwell-E. The next E series chip is never more then a year away.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I went with an older dual socket setup. EVGA SR2 with a pair of 6 cores for 700 shipped. In multithreaded applications it will destroy a 4960X
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


I bet! What chip's are you using dual 970's?


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I went with an older dual socket setup. EVGA SR2 with a pair of 6 cores for 700 shipped. In multithreaded applications it will destroy a 4960X


4930k/4960x will kill that in anything that isn't a server related application. I seriously doubt you're using that build for its purpose.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> 4930k/4960x will kill that in anything that isn't a server related application. I seriously doubt you're using that build for its purpose.


I'd look at the title of that system build he has planned. He's living up to its name...


----------



## skupples

I would love for that to be the server I play KF on!


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> I'd look at the title of that system build he has planned. He's living up to its name...


Yeah you're right, the cost is insane.

Games are just starting to like threads and cores, we are far off from multiple cpus. Same goes for a lot of applications. Outside of 24/7 video rendering (that you're making money off) that build is useless. Even if you're hosting a server, renting a rack would be cheaper than what he has built.

I'm not trying to put him down, it's his money he can do whatever he wants. But putting a comment such as destroying a 4960x in "multithreaded applications" is ignorant. BF3 is multithreaded, will that machine destroy a 4960x in BF3? No. Will it destroy a 4960x in x264 which is "multithreaded"? Yes.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> Yeah you're right, the cost is insane.
> 
> Games are just starting to like threads and cores, we are far off from multiple cpus. Same goes for a lot of applications. Outside of 24/7 video rendering (that you're making money off) that build is useless. Even if you're hosting a server, renting a rack would be cheaper than what he has built.
> 
> I'm not trying to put him down, it's his money he can do whatever he wants. But putting a comment such as destroying a 4960x in "multithreaded applications" is ignorant. BF3 is multithreaded, will that machine destroy a 4960x in BF3? No. Will it destroy a 4960x in x264 which is "multithreaded"? Yes.


He says he payed 200$ for each CPU and 250 for the board. So, in total ~700$ I highly doubt the gaming industry will ever benefit from a dual cpu system, unless it's a server. *What the gaming industry needs more then anything is to properly utilize the hardware we already have. Not more OP hardware.*


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> 4930k/4960x will kill that in anything that isn't a server related application. I seriously doubt you're using that build for its purpose.


Like what? Older dual threaded games? BF4 is going to eat 12 cores up
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> Yeah you're right, the cost is insane.
> 
> Games are just starting to like threads and cores, we are far off from multiple cpus. Same goes for a lot of applications. Outside of 24/7 video rendering (that you're making money off) that build is useless. Even if you're hosting a server, renting a rack would be cheaper than what he has built.
> 
> I'm not trying to put him down, it's his money he can do whatever he wants. But putting a comment such as destroying a 4960x in "multithreaded applications" is ignorant. BF3 is multithreaded, will that machine destroy a 4960x in BF3? No. Will it destroy a 4960x in x264 which is "multithreaded"? Yes.


So you think 6 cores of IB-E is going to be able to beat 12 cores of Westmere?







My new rig will destroy a 4960X in BF4 and anything multithreaded


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Like what? Older dual threaded games? BF4 is going to eat 12 cores up


Based on that comment I am implied to think that you built that system for BF4?

There is also a difference between utilizing more cores and utilizing more CPUS. There are many applications (some adobe programs for example) that support more than 2 cores but do not support multiple CPUS.

BF4 beta is out, try it out yourself, see if utilizes all the cores and threads. Even if it does, a high clock speed, which can be achieved with the i7 6 cores, is more valuable in real time applications.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> Based on that comment I am implied to think that you built that system for BF4?
> 
> There is also a difference between utilizing more cores and utilizing more CPUS. There are many applications (some adobe programs for example) that support more than 2 cores but do not support multiple CPUS.
> 
> BF4 beta is out, try it out yourself, see if utilizes all the cores and threads. Even if it does, a high clock speed, which can be achieved with the i7 6 cores, is more valuable in real time applications.


The Xeon's are overclockable. This setup is getting watercooled so 4.2-4.4 is attainable if i want to push it. I got the idea for this build from a member who test his 12 core rig in BF4. Let me find the screenshot.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> The Xeon's are overclockable. This setup is getting watercooled so 4.2-4.4 is attainable if i want to push it. I got the idea for this build from a member who test his 12 core rig in BF4. Let me find the screenshot.


Why not build a system around intel's 6 core cpu?


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Why not build a system around intel's 6 core cpu?


Because IB-E is a waste of money IMO and it was cheaper to grab an SR-2 and a pair of Xeon's then a RIVE and a 4930K


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> The Xeon's are overclockable. This setup is getting watercooled so 4.2-4.4 is attainable if i want to push it. I got the idea for this build from a member who test his 12 core rig in BF4. Let me find the screenshot.


Aren't those CPUs around $1600 each? Plus that expensive motherboard? If you got that for $700 then it is an amazing deal regardless of anything.

Anyway, can you find a comparison of an identical rig using a 4930k/4960x and compare it to yours? See the difference in FPS, valid test imo.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> Aren't those CPUs around $1600 each? Plus that expensive motherboard? If you got that for $700 then it is an amazing deal regardless of anything.
> 
> Anyway, can you find a comparison of an identical rig using a 4930k/4960x and compare it to yours? See the difference in FPS, valid test imo.


Once i have it installed and running i'll run detailed fps tests so i can attempt to compare to a 4930K/4960X system. I'm still deciding on the GPU's. I'm waiting on the 770 Ti's but who knows when they'll be released. If Titan gets price dropped to 699 i will grab 3 of them instead.

Brand new these Xeon's were 1600 bucks a piece but the ones i bought aren't brand new. They're pulls from a server


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Once i have it installed and running i'll run detailed fps tests so i can attempt to compare to a 4930K/4960X system. I'm still deciding on the GPU's. I'm waiting on the 770 Ti's but who knows when they'll be released. If Titan gets price dropped to 699 i will grab 3 of them instead.
> 
> Brand new these Xeon's were 1600 bucks a piece but the ones i bought aren't brand new. They're pulls from a server


I think a nice test would be to test a lower end GPU config and also a high end one, like 3 titans.

1600x2 +400 = $3600, vs 550+400 = $950. Your system better outperform the i7 hexacore by at least 3 fold if someone were to buy it for the sole purpose of gaming.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> I think a nice test would be to test a lower end GPU config and also a high end one, like 3 titans.
> 
> 1600x2 +400 = $3600, vs 550+400 = $950. Your system better outperform the i7 hexacore by at least 3 fold if someone were to buy it for the sole purpose of gaming.


Why are you even bringing up brand new prices? I paid 700 for the setup not 3600 and ofcourse its going to outperform a 4960X/4930K. Dual 4.4Ghz 5680's vs a 4.6Ghz 4960X is laughable.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Why are you even bringing up brand new prices? I paid 700 for the setup not 3600 and ofcourse its going to outperform a 4960X/4930K. Dual 4.4Ghz 5680's vs a 4.6Ghz 4960X is laughable.


What is this system going to be used for?


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> What is this system going to be used for?


Bf4 and benchmarks


----------



## duhasttas

Stay Puft although this is going off tangent (like many other posts regarding AMD's new releases), I must say that I absolutely love your build idea and rational for going dual Xeon... Talk about future proof.


----------



## skupples

699$ titan? Maybe on Ebay! I think a more reasonable expectation of a titan price cut is ~800-850$ (usd)


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Bf4 and benchmarks


Oh ok.

Could your system replace a server rack? Or a part of a server rack?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhasttas*
> 
> Stay Puft although this is going off tangent (like many other posts regarding AMD's new releases), I must say that I absolutely love your build idea and rational for going dual Xeon... Talk about future proof.


I am not sure if this is future proofing....


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Why are you even bringing up brand new prices? I paid 700 for the setup not 3600 and ofcourse its going to outperform a 4960X/4930K. Dual 4.4Ghz 5680's vs a 4.6Ghz 4960X is laughable.


I'm bringing up prices because that is the only fair way to do a comparison. If I didn't, I could say I got a 4960x and RIVE for free which results in a better price to performance ratio vs your $700 dual xeon setup...

Also, don't forget your 5680's are 2 generations behind IVY-E, so comparing clocks is invalid. As a side note, with the RIVE BE and potential for a new bios, we will see clocks way beyond 4.6GHz on water.


----------



## rubicsphere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> I am not sure if this is future proofing....


Yea because all games are going back to using 1 core in the future









Stay Puft is using my screenshot. My SR-2 build was $900 but I bought the mobo brand new for the lifetime warranty that EVGA offers with the SR-2 board. At 4.05Ghz I was killing 4930k's in all things that use the cores. 20.15 was my Cinebench. If 24 threads isn't future proofing that's a future I don't want to be a part of


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*
> 
> Yea because all games are going back to using 1 core in the future
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stay Puft is using my screenshot. My SR-2 build was $900 but I bought the mobo brand new for the lifetime warranty that EVGA offers with the SR-2 board. At 4.05Ghz I was killing 4930k's in all things that use the cores. 20.15 was my Cinebench. If 24 threads isn't future proofing that's a future I don't want to be a part of


By the time any game or any day to day application besides multiple video rendering or benchmark uses 24 threads your CPU's are going to be 100% outdated.


----------



## rubicsphere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> By the time any game or any day to day application besides multiple video rendering or benchmark uses 24 threads your CPU's are going to be 100% outdated.


That's fine because by that time they will have paid themselves off with no need to upgrade in between.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*
> 
> That's fine because by that time they will have paid themselves off with no need to upgrade in between.


What do you mean by paid themselves off? Are you actually using them for work or do you mean that you will not have to upgrade. Stay Puft is using them for games.


----------



## rubicsphere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> What do you mean by paid themselves off? Are you actually using them for work or do you mean that you will not have to upgrade. Stay Puft is using them for games.


I mean the no need to upgrade. I can spend $900 now and not have to spend money on CPU's and motherboards for probably at least 8 years. I use mine for everything including games. I would say 8 years is even a conservative estimate.


----------



## fateswarm

For the 290 we got to see the price difference before deciding (provided the specs are as rumored). It's possibly at least $100 apart. But, there's a huge difference between being $100 apart and $200, because in the first case one may go to the better one anyway, but for $200, especially on X2 setups, it might make more sense to downsize.


----------



## rubicsphere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> For the 290 we got to see the price difference before deciding (provided the specs are as rumored). It's possibly at least $100 apart. But, there's a huge difference between being $100 apart and $200, because in the first case one may go to the better one anyway, but for $200, especially on X2 setups, it might make more sense to downsize.


Yea. It's always better to buy the 2nd strongest GPU. Look at 7950 and GTX 780 such good values compared to 7970 and Titan. I'm not interested at all in 290x or Titan just 290 and 780.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*
> 
> I mean the no need to upgrade. I can spend $900 now and not have to spend money on CPU's and motherboards for probably at least 8 years. I use mine for everything including games. I would say 8 years is even a conservative estimate.


8 years seems extremely exaggerated, I would put a life of about 3 years max on them for games. In 8 years we might have graphene, who knows. You're going to start facing IPC issues, your cpu is already 3 gen behind.

And this is not taking in the fact the actual price of that build. What you got them for has no meaning as a guideline for others to follow.


----------



## rubicsphere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> 8 years seems extremely exaggerated, I would put a life of about 3 years max on them for games. In 8 years we might have graphene, who knows. You're going to start facing IPC issues, your cpu is already 3 gen behind.


Next gen consoles have 8 threads and their life cycle is 10 years. There will be little need for anything above 8 for at least that cycle. Look at the Q6600 it came out 6 years ago on very old architecture and with a decent overclock is still very viable. 8 years is conservative. I'm only talking about myself. IPC is starting to mean less and less. BF4 is maxing 4670K which have IPC that is much higher than FX-8000's yet it plays better on the 8 threaded CPU's


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*
> 
> Next gen consoles have 8 threads and their life cycle is 10 years. There will be little need for anything above 8 for at least that cycle. Look at the Q6600 it came out 6 years ago on very old architecture is with a decent overclock is still very viable. 8 years is conservative.


Consoles have lives that long because the industry updates them every 10 years... New PC hardware comes out every year at least.
And raw performance per 1 core is already low on the xeons, it will show more as time progresses.

"I'm only talking about myself. IPC is starting to mean less and less. BF4 is maxing 4670K which have IPC that is much higher than FX-8000's yet it plays better on the 8 threaded CPU's"

If the Q6600 is enough for you then why on earth do you need dual xeons.

Recent benchmarks show the 4 cores w/o HT still performing better than the 8 core amds.


----------



## skupples

From what I understand this is legit(no prices)


----------



## rubicsphere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> Consoles have lives that long because the industry updates them every 10 years... New PC hardware comes out every year at least.
> And raw performance per 1 core is already low on the xeons, it will show more as time progresses.


If you are saying the the Xeons are outdated as far as uArch goes then yes most definitely. I'm aware of that. The fact that the processing power of 24 threads is so much higher than what is needed for games today is what I'm basing my 8 year estimate off of.

Q6600 isn't enough for me. I said it was very viable. I don't need dual Xeons. I wanted dual Xeons.

All those benches were done on empty servers to make things more "reproduce able" 4 cores choke on BF4 with 64 players on the server.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*
> 
> If you are saying the the Xeons are outdated as far as uArch goes then yes most definitely. I'm aware of that. The fact that the processing power of 24 threads is so much higher than what is needed for games today is what I'm basing my 8 year estimate off of.


The processing power of 24 threads is ridiculous ATM, but in 8 years, a CPU with 11x the micro-arch is going to put out more performance than that cpu. And this is IF the game actually uses 24 threads.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*
> 
> If you are saying the the Xeons are outdated as far as uArch goes then yes most definitely. I'm aware of that. The fact that the processing power of 24 threads is so much higher than what is needed for games today is what I'm basing my 8 year estimate off of.


I understand where you are coming from.

By the time 24 threads are used in games the cpu will be slow compared to the standards.


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*
> 
> Yea. *It's always better to buy the 2nd strongest GPU*. Look at 7950 and GTX 780 such good values compared to 7970 and Titan. I'm not interested at all in 290x or Titan just 290 and 780.


lol sorry, but: http://www.tubechop.com/watch/1537629


----------



## rubicsphere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> lol sorry, but: http://www.tubechop.com/watch/1537629


Haha that means you're last too man


----------



## Arm3nian

We need some valid benchmarks of CPUs in bf4, I don't trust any of the current ones. Maybe they are waiting for the game to actually come out.


----------



## rubicsphere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> We need some valid benchmarks of CPUs in bf4, I don't trust any of the current ones. Maybe they are waiting for the game to actually come out.


Yea nothing is final until the game comes out but look in the thread here about BF4 Beta. People are showing 100% CPU while on full servers even with heavily overclocked quad cores.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> We need some valid benchmarks of CPUs in bf4, I don't trust any of the current ones. Maybe they are waiting for the game to actually come out.


Then you have to wait for the launch. I also have little trust. But it will be trustworthy when random people start getting them from shops and you have tons of benchmarks.


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*
> 
> Haha that's means your last too man


lol yeah, I've just about never been first when it comes to gpus. these are the cards i will claim ownership of (the crappers and headaches are omitted)

TNT2 - not a discrete gpu but was great in '98.
4200 ti
9700pro
6800 GT
X 800 GTO <3
7800 gtx
gtx260
HD4890
5770 cf
6870 cf
gtx560ti
6950 (unlocked)
gtx670
HD7950
HD7870
gtx780


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*
> 
> Yea nothing is final until the game comes out but look in the thread here about BF4 Beta. People are showing 100% CPU while on full servers even with heavily overclocked quad cores.


Don't get me wrong, the Intel 4 cores are a terrible deal imo, especially now when games like BF4 can utilize more cores/threads. For $100 more you can basically double your performance with the HT cpus.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*
> 
> Yea because all games are going back to using 1 core in the future
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stay Puft is using my screenshot. My SR-2 build was $900 but I bought the mobo brand new for the lifetime warranty that EVGA offers with the SR-2 board. At 4.05Ghz I was killing 4930k's in all things that use the cores. 20.15 was my Cinebench. If 24 threads isn't future proofing that's a future I don't want to be a part of


I wouldnt even waste my time with the haters rubic.



Cant wait to push these processors past 4.2Ghz.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhasttas*
> 
> Stay Puft although this is going off tangent (like many other posts regarding AMD's new releases), I must say that I absolutely love your build idea and rational for going dual Xeon... Talk about future proof.


Thank you.







I was all ready to go 4930K/RIVE but this idea is so much cooler. "Moar Cores" it is


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I wouldnt even waste my time with the haters rubic.


*Ignores 3 pages of posts*. *Posts a benchmark that scales almost linearly with more cores*.

You are hopeless. I'm done. At least rubic made some valid claims.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> *Ignores 3 pages of posts*. *Posts a benchmark that scales almost linearly with more cores*.
> 
> You are hopeless. I'm done. At least rubic made some valid claims.


It's my money. I don't care if you don't approve what I do with it.


----------



## CaliLife17

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> If that's your mind set, you may as well wait for broadwell-E. The next E series chip is never more then a year away.


Not really. Haswell-e is a generation leap. DDR4, new platform, and 8-cores. Yes every generation will bring improvements, but the leap from ivy-e to Haswell-e is more than just IPC improvements. That's why I think it could be worth it to wait.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I wouldnt even waste my time with the haters rubic.
> 
> 
> 
> Cant wait to push these processors past 4.2Ghz.
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was all ready to go 4930K/RIVE but this idea is so much cooler. "Moar Cores" it is


So you wont use it for gaming then?


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> it's his money he can do whatever he wants.


Yeah maybe if you read my posts you would see I made that clear quite a while back. Your negligence to facts and reasonable opinions is another story.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I wouldnt even waste my time with the haters rubic.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cant wait to push these processors past 4.2Ghz.
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was all ready to go 4930K/RIVE but this idea is so much cooler. "Moar Cores" it is


No hate here bud, I'm jealous! I'll be happy with my new 4930K but dual XEONS would be so much fun!


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> No hate here bud, I'm jealous! I'll be happy with my new 4930K but dual XEONS would be so much fun!


No doubt... I am so jelly.

I just checked for Opterons on newegg and realize they don't stock them anymore


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> No hate here bud, I'm jealous! I'll be happy with my new 4930K but dual XEONS would be so much fun!


Wasn't talking about you eric. I just don't understand why people are questioning both rubic and myself. Is a 980X slow? Its not as fast as a 4930K but its not slow by any means and having two of them clocked as high as they can go will be awesome.

To put it even clearer to some

6 cores Clocked at 4.6Ghz - Boring
12 Cores Clocked at 4.4Ghz+ - AWESOME


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Oh I agree. I don't know anything about XEONS but two ought to make for a very interesting benching rig! Plus plumbing that SR2 up for water cooling looks amazing!


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Then you have to wait for the launch. I also have little trust. But it will be trustworthy when random people start getting them from shops and you have tons of benchmarks.


It's going to all be magically better, for amd users, when mantle implements. "20% faster!" they just didn't mention the purposely gimping nv part...

(this is a joke haha)


----------



## rubicsphere

Most likely fake but....


----------



## Yungbenny911

fake


----------



## sjwpwpro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> LOL........Yeah....NO.
> 
> I just got the new 2014 Impala 2LZ....It's Baaaaaad. Was going to get the New Lexus IS250 or the BMW 325i but the Impala was just WOW. It's no longer the rental car agency trash car it used to be. It's fit, finish and drive are every bit as good as the other two. I will say it was weird paying nearly 40K for a chevy that isn't a truck.
> 
> Sorry, way OT.
> 
> Ummmm...yeah......those 290X's prices are tooo damn high!


I Agree on the new Impala, its a nice car and I always thought that BMW's were way over priced.

As far as pricing on the card I think that inflation, price of R&D, and the fact that the competition is getting the same amount is the reason for higher prices. It is the same with everything though cars, food, household goods, all of it is slowly going up in price and we (I) am not making anymore money. So its kinda a problem of the economy and a factor of not making any more money that makes these seem so expensive. Really relative to there performance and the performance of the older cards when they came out I would say there not to far off the mark on pricing, we just need to fix the rest of the economy and thus fix our (my) income.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*
> 
> Most likely fake but....


no proof = just another video... Though, it's rare to see a 1440p upload.

hes not even using the in game fps tracker. But he is getting tons of hits, which is obvious #1 goal.


----------



## kpo6969

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> From what I understand this is legit(no prices)


64 ROP's?


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kpo6969*
> 
> 64 ROP's?


I just copy & paste. I'm not the one getting the info leaked to me or anything. The review say's, "store releases specs" then also says "@least 2 AMD sources have told me 64 not 44"


----------



## Ghoxt

OT but since when does BF4 use 12 "Cores"? in an SR2 Rig via CPU affinity? I could have sworn 5680's were 6 core, 12 thread. And of course both CPU's combined have 12 Cores total between them. So someone is alluding to BF4 using Multi CPU if available? If so badass, i just didn't think so.

If not I'd then love to see a 5680 6 core vs a 3960k. You might be surprised on who wins that fight in gaming heads up.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> OT but since when does BF4 use 12 "Cores"? in an SR2 Rig via CPU affinity? I could have sworn 5680's were 6 core, 12 thread. And of course both CPU's combined have 12 Cores total between them. So someone is alluding to BF4 using Multi CPU if available? If so badass, i just didn't think so.
> 
> If not I'd then love to see a 5680 6 core vs a 3960k. You might be surprised on who wins that fight in gaming heads up.


Asingle 5680 will loose to a 3960X, but not by much. 2 5680s OC'd will spank a 3960X or 4960X in most things. IIRC there's not a huge IPC difference between the Nahelem cores and Sandy/Ivy.


----------



## Ghoxt

I know what you are saying but my gist is that BF4 is *NOT* coded to use 2 CPU's. Nor is any other AAA game. Sure a scientific benchmark , folding, video encoding will do great when those apps are coded to actually use 2 CPU's.

I just got the impression that the grandstanding was making the impression of his rig being better at BF4 because of the Xeon's...My point was his rig is stellar at multithreading, but only alot better than a 3960x when that second CPU is put into play. Then he of course blows everything away.

Not knocking him, just trying to keep it in perspective.









And on Topic, I still say Welcome Back to February 2013 if the performance we expect hits reality with the R9 series. Basically nothing to see here other than AMD putting out a product for brand awareness only and some sales to keep the ball rolling. Most of us shopping at the expected price points already have what we need performance wise. If Maxwell is far off this may be a boring cycle.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> I know what you are saying but my gist is that BF4 is *NOT* coded to use 2 CPU's. Nor is any other AAA game. Sure a scientific benchmark , folding, video encoding will do great when those apps are coded to actually use 2 CPU's.
> 
> I just got the impression that the grandstanding was making the impression of his rig being better at BF4 because of the Xeon's...My point was his rig is stellar at multithreading, but only alot better than a 3960x when that second CPU is put into play. Then he of course blows everything away.
> 
> Not knocking him, just trying to keep it in perspective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And on Topic, I still say Welcome Back to February 2013 if the performance we expect hits reality with the R9 series. Basically nothing to see here other than AMD putting out a product for brand awareness only and some sales to keep the ball rolling. Most of us shopping at the expected price points already have what we need performance wise. If Maxwell is far off this may be a boring cycle.


4 GB VRAM, 512 bit bus, hardware level frame metering, and Mantle will make AMD serious this time around though..


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> 4 GB VRAM, 512 bit bus, hardware level frame metering, and *Mantle will make AMD serious* this time around though..


Mantle is still unproven except for marketing done by AMD. Though, I am really curious to see the performance benefits. I just hope this doesn't push Nvidia to make their own low-level API to compete with Mantle. (Not NvAPI).


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> Mantle is still unproven except for marketing done by AMD. Though, I am really curious to see the performance benefits. I just hope this doesn't push Nvidia to make their own low-level API to compete with Mantle. (Not NvAPI).


AMD hasn't been working alone on Mantle, it was pushed by game developers. And they have been working on it over 2 years, and they are in a much better position to push a low-level API than Nvidia (since consoles will use much of it as well). So it's not going to be meaningless.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> AMD hasn't been working alone on Mantle, it was pushed by game developers. And they have been working on it over 2 years, and they are in a much better position to push a low-level API than Nvidia (since consoles will use much of it as well). So it's not going to be meaningless.


Oh, I never thought it was going to be meaningless. I'm just skeptical until I see some real results, which we should see soon. I'm not trying to shoot down the possibilities of Mantle, I'm just cautiously optimistic.


----------



## Rustynails

wow, this is a great thread 80% of the post are people saying amd is late and has failed. yet they have 780 and titans ^^.
months ago all nvdia did was drop 1 new card .... that got beat by a 7990 and was 300$ cheaper.
It's not that they where late they did not need to get any new card out. there 7000 line was a killer card and will be for the nex year+
if things fall as the should the 290x will be fighting the titan 700 vs 1k 290 will be up with the 550 vs 650 .
in anyway how is the a fail?
don't be sad be happy!!!!


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rustynails*
> 
> wow, this is a great thread 80% of the post are people saying amd is late and has failed. yet they have 780 and titans ^^.
> months ago all nvdia did was drop 1 new card .... that got beat by a 7990 and was 300$ cheaper.
> It's not that they where late they did not need to get any new card out. there 7000 line was a killer card and will be for the nex year+
> if things fall as the should the 290x will be fighting the titan 700 vs 1k 290 will be up with the 550 vs 650 .
> in anyway how is the a fail?
> don't be sad be happy!!!!


we should all be happy new cards are coming out no matter what imo


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rustynails*
> 
> wow, this is a great thread 80% of the post are people saying amd is late and has failed. yet they have 780 and titans ^^.
> months ago all nvdia did was drop 1 new card .... that got beat by a 7990 and was 300$ cheaper.
> It's not that they where late they did not need to get any new card out. there 7000 line was a killer card and will be for the nex year+
> if things fall as the should the 290x will be fighting the titan 700 vs 1k 290 will be up with the 550 vs 650 .
> in anyway how is the a fail?
> don't be sad be happy!!!!


1) The HD 7990 was the same price as the Titan @ Titan's release. It was only recently price dropped.

2) The Titan and the HD 7990 compete in completely different consumer purchasing brackets. The Titan is a single GPU card, whereas the HD 7990 is a double GPU card.

3) The reason why this is a "fail" is that AMD has spent ~2 years, and is just now catching up to Nvidia. And considering the fact that this release means they won't be releasing anymore cards anytime soon, means that with Maxwell coming next Spring/Early Summer, that they spent all of this time for pretty much nothing. Not to mention they are locked into GCN because of Mantle.

4) And finally, a surprising amount of Titan/780 owners, like me (or used to be me, since I had to return my 780 because I needed the money after being laid off), are happy that AMD in the end is at least going to match Nvidia's performance, because that means better prices for everyone, because of competition (as is evident by the many news threads that Nvidia is planning/planned on slashing prices due to AMD's launch).


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> 1) The HD 7990 was the same price as the Titan @ Titan's release. It was only recently price dropped.
> 
> 2) The Titan and the HD 7990 compete in completely different consumer purchasing brackets. The Titan is a single GPU card, whereas the HD 7990 is a double GPU card.
> 
> 3) The reason why this is a "fail" is that AMD has spent ~2 years, and is just now catching up to Nvidia. And considering the fact that this release means they won't be releasing anymore cards anytime soon, means that with Maxwell coming next Spring/Early Summer, that they spent all of this time for pretty much nothing. Not to mention they are locked into GCN because of Mantle.
> 
> 4) And finally, a surprising amount of Titan/780 owners, like me, are happy that AMD in the end is at least going to match Nvidia's performance, because that means better prices for everyone, because of competition (as is evident by the many news threads that Nvidia is planning/planned on slashing prices due to AMD's launch).


pretty much this

when released the 7990 was $1000 despite being super late to the party, hell the party already packed up and left at that point.

true the 7990 beats the titan in pure game fps, but a lot of us view the cards very differently, i dont put the 7990 and titan in the same group at all, when i bench my 7990s i view them as two gpus, unlike my titan i bench i consider it just one card. But it is true the 7990 has a higher gameplay value to most.

i wouldnt call this a fail just yet, we really dont know how the card will perform exactly until everything is said and done and labeled official.

a lot of titan/780 owners will obviously defend their products, as amd owners will defend theres, its sad its a "us vs them" mentality but it is what it is.

I being a current owner of titans and 780s, welcome competition in pricing and benchmarking.


----------



## pcfoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Asingle 5680 will loose to a 3960X, but not by much. 2 5680s OC'd will spank a 3960X or 4960X in most things. IIRC there's not a huge IPC difference between the Nahelem cores and Sandy/Ivy.


I am using a 3930K 4.7GHz (don't like me voltages above that, did 5 for a time but meh), and BF4 open beta engine doesn't stress it above 30-35% even in maps with 64 players. Thats <4 threads. (and I do have crap running in the background).

I don't think 2 or 4 or 8 CPUs would matter when you can use only a fraction of one 6 core. Probably a well-clocked i5-2500K would do just fine.
A similarly clocked 3570K would probably do better, as most benchmarks I've seen with a single GPU and Ivy bridge beat 1-2 card configs with SB-E.
Haswell will be even further ahead, and IB-E will probably match closer to the s1155 IB CPUs.

Yeah, you don't have to upgrade your Nahelem per se, but please, multithreaded requirements are not there for a slower 2P to catch up and surpass newer architectures. Just accept it and be happy with what you have.

Oh, and there is no "special treatment" for 2P systems as far as app coding goes really...if the App (i.e. BF4) can can utilize say 12 threads and the OS can use 2P, doesn't really matter if those threads come from 1P or 2P.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> AMD is late. AMD's cards are going to offer performance that some of us have been enjoying for 8 months now. And the 7990 was a year late too. It is a dual gpu card and shouldn't be compared to the 780/Titan.


Don't think AMD was using the 7990 as a "titan killer" per se...
The 7990 plays the game the 690 played. Both are dual GPU cards, both were similarly priced, and both were faster than a single titan, with the 7990 being the fastest "card" out there. Some credit is due.


----------



## caenlen

"pre-orders will be available Oct 3rd" BS AMD


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcfoo*
> 
> I am using a 3930K 4.7GHz (don't like me voltages above that, did 5 for a time but meh), and BF4 open beta engine doesn't stress it above 30-35% even in maps with 64 players. Thats <4 threads. (and I do have crap running in the background).
> 
> I don't think 2 or 4 or 8 CPUs would matter when you can use only a fraction of one 6 core. Probably a well-clocked i5-2500K would do just fine.
> A similarly clocked 3570K would probably do better, as most benchmarks I've seen with a single GPU and Ivy bridge beat 1-2 card configs with SB-E.
> Haswell will be even further ahead, and IB-E will probably match closer to the s1155 IB CPUs.
> 
> Yeah, you don't have to upgrade your Nahelem per se, but please, multithreaded requirements are not there for a slower 2P to catch up and surpass newer architectures. Just accept it and be happy with what you have.
> 
> Oh, and there is no "special treatment" for 2P systems as far as app coding goes really...if the App (i.e. BF4) can can utilize say 12 threads and the OS can use 2P, doesn't really matter if those threads come from 1P or 2P.
> Don't think AMD was using the 7990 as a "titan killer" per se...
> The 7990 plays the game the 690 played. Both are dual GPU cards, both were similarly priced, and both were faster than a single titan, with the 7990 being the fastest "card" out there. Some credit is due.


I was talking about overall performance, not just gaming. And IB with a single card won't beat SB-E with two of the same cards at all. Maybe two smaller cards, but that's a completely different apple. And I dunno how your cpu isn't stressed much on BF4 64, as I stressed my 2550K @5 GHz to 100% most of the time in campaign.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> Mantle is still unproven except for marketing done by AMD. Though, I am really curious to see the performance benefits. I just hope this doesn't push Nvidia to make their own low-level API to compete with Mantle. (Not NvAPI).


If mantle is successful all companies will start doing this. Not just AMD & NV.

Watch the Tech Syndicate review on Mantle(and sub for logan sake), and the PCPER one.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caenlen*
> 
> "pre-orders will be available Oct 3rd" BS AMD


Amd has admitted to issues with the american side of pre-orders... Just didn't say what it was. It's most likely the republicans fault.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caenlen*
> 
> "pre-orders will be available Oct 3rd" BS AMD


Newegg's system cant do preorders


----------



## Master__Shake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> If mantle is successful all companies will start doing this. Not just AMD & NV.
> 
> Watch the Tech Syndicate review on Mantle(and sub for logan sake), and the PCPER one.
> Amd has admitted to issues with the american side of pre-orders... Just didn't say what it was. It's most likely the republicans fault.


no one here likes logan...he "lied" on his 8350 review...







]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Newegg's system cant do preorders


NCIX's can but you have to play full price IIRC, and that would break NDA rules.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Master__Shake*
> 
> no one here likes logan...he "lied" on his 8350 review...


Logan is like those guys at Best Buy who work in the "Geek Squad". He should go back to selling TV's at Tigerdirect


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Master__Shake*
> 
> no one here likes logan...he "lied" on his 8350 review...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ]
> NCIX's can but you have to play full price IIRC, and that would break NDA rules.


And so did linus, big deal.

Logan has admitted many times that he's just a talk box. That's where Qain and wendell come into play.

Tigerdirect has done nothing but go down hill since firing logan & the acquisition of compusa.


----------



## wstanci3

^ What did they lie about?


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> ^ What did they lie about?


some processor that i'll never own. Though, I think it was more that his testing wasn't up to the par of the community.


----------



## rubicsphere

BF4 uses both CPU's just fine:


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*
> 
> BF4 uses both CPU's just fine:


CPU utilization doesn't mean better performance. We need someone with dual xeons and and a 4930k/4960x to play bf4 and report the FPS.


----------



## rubicsphere

4930k will be faster


----------



## Arm3nian

Well you guys were arguing yesterday that the dual xeons would yeild more FPS.


----------



## rubicsphere

Quote me where I said that please


----------



## Arm3nian

Umm, you and StayPuft posted numerous times that the dual xeons would do better in games vs the 6 cores. I argued and said dual xeon would kill the six core in benchies but not bf4 or any games.


----------



## rubicsphere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> Umm, you and StayPuft posted numerous times that the dual xeons would do better in games vs the 6 cores. I argued and said dual xeon would kill the six core in benchies but not bf4 or any games.


Waiting on that quote big guy. Surely if there are numerous posts it wouldn't be hard to find just 1 right?


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> My new rig will destroy a 4960X in BF4 and anything multithreaded


There, that atarted it. You never disagreed with that. I was arguing against that.


----------



## rubicsphere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> There, that atarted it. You never disagreed with that. I was arguing against that.


O ok that makes sense







Another member says something and I never disagree. So technically I said it! Sure pal


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Logan is like those guys at Best Buy who work in the "Geek Squad". He should go back to selling TV's at Tigerdirect


Not all the people at Geek Sqad have no idea what they're doing. And not all geek squad are computer techs. There's a lot more to tech than just computers. BTW I work at Geek Squad...


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*
> 
> Stay Puft is using my screenshot. At 4.05Ghz I was killing 4930k's in all things that use the cores.


He used your screenshot to defend his argument, you had nothing to say.

And right after you said your dual xeon kills 4930k in all things that use the cores. According to your recent screenshot, bf4 uses the cores. I don't care if you never directly said Dual xeon > 4930k in games, you implied it in every post. Don't try to play as a fool, it don't work

Besides, we are in a thread that is talking about a gaming gpu, not a workstation. Are you telling me all of your posts were to convince me that dual xeon is great for multithreaded apps? Thanks everyone already knows that...


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> There, that atarted it. You never disagreed with that. I was arguing against that.


What part of that statement are you objecting too? The BF4 or Multithreaded part? Because you'd be a fool to bet against dual 5680's in benchmarks and programs that are *Multithreaded*. I personally think i'll pull better fps in BF4 then IBE with 3 Titans and i'm sure i can find someone to test against after the rig is completed.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> What part of that statement are you objecting too? The BF4 or Multithreaded part? Because you'd be a fool to bet against dual 5680's in benchmarks and programs that are *Multithreaded*. I personally think i'll pull better fps in BF4 then IBE with 3 Titans and i'm sure i can find someone to test against after the rig is completed.


No one is dumb enough to put a 4930k against dual xeons in a program that uses all threads 100%. I'm talking about bf4. Rubic has dual xeons and he just said what I've been saying.

I gaurantee 4930k will pull more fps. Test it yourself or find someone that can. 5ghz 4930k vs your cpus with titans.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> No one is dumb enough to put a 4930k against dual xeons in a program that uses all threads 100%. I'm talking about bf4. Rubic has dual xeons and he just said what I've been saying.
> 
> *I gaurantee 4930k will pull more fps*. Test it yourself or find someone that can. 5ghz 4930k vs your cpus with titans.


At what resolution? Remember as the resolution goes up, the gpus come into play more so than the processor speed. But I do agree with you that the 4930K @ 5GHz would be faster in BF4 in most scenarios. But dual Xeons are hot.


----------



## rubicsphere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> He used your screenshot to defend his argument, you had nothing to say.
> 
> And right after you said your dual xeon kills 4930k in all things that use the cores. According to your recent screenshot, bf4 uses the cores. I don't care if you never directly said Dual xeon > 4930k in games, you implied it in every post. Don't try to play as a fool, it don't work
> 
> Besides, we are in a thread that is talking about a gaming gpu, not a workstation. Are you telling me all of your posts were to convince me that dual xeon is great for multithreaded apps? Thanks everyone already knows that...


My posts weren't to convince you of anything, and you can put as many words in my mouth (posts?) as you want. Dual Xeons will be better in things that use the cores meaning all 24. BF4 does not use all 24 so no it's not included in what I was talking about.


----------



## skupples

doesn't it take ln2 to get 5.0 out of a 4930k? Last I checked people were QQing about a 4.6ghz wall that wasn't temp or voltage related... Though, I haven't been on the bot lately to see how things are going.


----------



## rubicsphere

Idk but my 3930K I used to have did it on water.

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2144130


----------



## Arm3nian

That wall was due to instant crash on boot, not sure what caused it. But 5 should be doable on a decent loop and decent processor, hoping rive be will be amazing


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> At what resolution? Remember as the resolution goes up, the gpus come into play more so than the processor speed. But I do agree with you that the 4930K @ 5GHz would be faster in BF4 in most scenarios. But dual Xeons are hot.


640x480 obviously, why else would you buy 3 titans? jk







1440p or tripple screens would make a good test. 4k would also be interesting.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> 640x480 obviously, why else would you buy 3 titans? jk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1440p or tripple screens would make a good test. 4k would also be interesting.


I'm not going 4K till i can get a screen under 1K. I run 1600P and a 5Ghz 4930K isnt easy. Most hit the wall at 4.6


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I'm not going 4K till i can get a screen under 1K. I run 1600P and a 5Ghz 4930K isnt easy. Most hit the wall at 4.6


Yeah but it isn't due to voltage or temperatures. It has to do with the board not supporting the cpu properly and a non optimized bios. Many have reported increased clocks as new bioses come out. Also, people have gotten 4000+mhz ram and 6ghz+ 4930k's on the RIVE BE. That proves that it isn't the processors fault.

Currently, you can't draw any conclusions on the limit of IVY-E. Look at hwbot overclocks, how is the average for air higher than water... makes no sense because not enough people have tried it. And many like myself are waiting for the RIVE BE. Asus probably has a new bios specially created for that board, or 2011 motherboards in general, that they are holding out on releasing.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I should find out tomorrow. Slapping my new 4930K into my RIVE. Hoping to get 4.8-5GHz out of her but I won't hold my breath...


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I should find out tomorrow. Slapping my new 4930K into my RIVE. Hoping to get 4.8-5GHz out of her but I won't hold my breath...


Break a transistor!


----------



## rubicsphere

http://www.directdial.com/21226-00-40G.html

Equivalent to $589 USD. That's more like it!!


----------



## thestache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*
> 
> http://www.directdial.com/21226-00-40G.html
> 
> Equivalent to $589 USD. That's more like it!!


Going to be paying attention to that link.


----------



## fleetfeather

My Interest in rumour speculation is rising....


----------



## rusky1

Now that price seems more correct.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## TrevBlu19

400-450 possible for 290?


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Would be an absolute steal at $400 but that ain't happening...


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Would be an absolute steal at $400 but that ain't happening...


One can dream Eric one can dream...sad when one dreams of a card at 450$ lol







it's definitely not happening at first, but with Nvidia's counter who knows right


----------



## Stay Puft

R9 290X










http://www.shopblt.com/item/sapphire-technology-21226-00-40g-sap-radeon-r9/u150_212260040g.html

R9 290

http://www.shopblt.com/item/sapphire-technology-21227-00-40g-sap-radeon-r9/u150_212270040g.html


----------



## fleetfeather

What happens if you try to proceed through checkout?


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> What happens if you try to proceed through checkout?


The cards aren't in stock so they'll charge your card and you'll have to wait


----------



## reoneclipse

Saw those earlier today but I think the price is lower then the newegg so called "leaked" prices because they aren't the BF4 Edition/Bundle. I see no other reason to leave the BF4 info out otherwise.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reoneclipse*
> 
> Saw those earlier today but I think the price is lower then the newegg so called "leaked" prices because they aren't the BF4 Edition/Bundle. I see no other reason to leave the BF4 info out otherwise.


Or newegg is just overcharging


----------



## fleetfeather

do they have the authorisation to charge your card extra later, or by agreeing to 'buy now get later' do you lock in that listed price?


----------



## reoneclipse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Or newegg is just overcharging


Well, why not mention BF4? Surely that would draw more buyers, me included.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> do they have the authorisation to charge your card extra later, or by agreeing to 'buy now get later' do you lock in that listed price?


They can't charge you more then what they have listed without concent. If this were a pricing error they would contact you and ask if you'd like to cancel or pay more if the card actually was more. Money


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reoneclipse*
> 
> Well, why not mention BF4? Surely that would draw more buyers, me included.


It's my understanding that all 290X owners will get the never settle bundle that has BF4 anyway


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> They can't charge you more then what they have listed without concent. If this were a pricing error they would contact you and ask if you'd like to cancel or pay more if the card actually was more. Money


In that case, I'm tempted to just tell them to shut up and take my money. Works out to be $600 AUD before shipping (no clue if they'd even do intl shipping yet), which is guaranteed to be less than what local retailers will charge...


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> It's my understanding that all 290X owners will get the never settle bundle that has BF4 anyway


I don't know why people keep saying this. AMD has said nothing to indicate that BF4 is going in the bundle for these cards, and it would not make any sense to sell a limited edition BF4 bundled card if every card included BF4. Logic dictates that the regular 290X cards will not include BF4, at least not at launch.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*
> 
> http://www.directdial.com/21226-00-40G.html
> 
> Equivalent to $589 USD. That's more like it!!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thestache*
> 
> Going to be paying attention to that link.


Did you guys see how hard the AMD forums got flamed after the 729 price leak? AMD was probably like "ohhhh poop, better drop it down a bill"


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Did you guys see how hard the AMD forums got flamed after the 729 price leak? AMD was probably like "ohhhh poop, better drop it down a bill"


lol i dont check out the AMD forums, but i can definitely see that happening lol

AMD pr team probably had a heart attack


----------



## greydor

When does the NDA expire? Today?


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> lol i dont check out the AMD forums, but i can definitely see that happening lol
> 
> AMD pr team probably had a heart attack


It's entirely possible that AMD purposefully had newegg leak the prices so they could see the reaction consumers have.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *greydor*
> 
> When does the NDA expire? Today?


15th.


----------



## s-x

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> It's entirely possible that AMD purposefully had newegg leak the prices so they could see the reaction consumers have.
> 15th.


Now presenting: Conspiracy theory alatar, with new and improved rumors of AMD.

Newegg wouldnt cater to a request to leak the prices. If AMD asked them to post the prices ahead of the NDA, they would, but not to the degree of hiding them in the page source. Newegg does this stuff all the time, for every company including nvidia. Its not companies testing the waters, its newegg staff being careless, or if you have to spin it some way, its newegg leaking information knowing they will get a ton of page views and hopefully people will come back to buy it, or see something else they want to buy at that time.


----------



## jimreaper218

Even if it does, I assume that it still won't be the full premium edition (includes expansion packs), which costs around $130.00
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> It's my understanding that all 290X owners will get the never settle bundle that has BF4 anyway


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s-x*
> 
> Now presenting: Conspiracy theory alatar, with new and improved rumors of AMD.
> 
> Newegg wouldnt cater to a request to leak the prices. If AMD asked them to post the prices ahead of the NDA, they would, but not to the degree of hiding them in the page source. Newegg does this stuff all the time, for every company including nvidia. Its not companies testing the waters, its newegg staff being careless, or if you have to spin it some way, its newegg leaking information knowing they will get a ton of page views and hopefully people will come back to buy it, or see something else they want to buy at that time.


I said it's possible that it happened, not that it actually happened.

Not like it would be illegal, bad, or anything along those lines either. Would actually be a pretty good, consumer friendly move.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jimreaper218*
> 
> Even if it does, I assume that it still won't be the full premium edition (includes expansion packs), which costs around $130.00


Who cares if it's not premium. Just buy premium yourself


----------



## jimreaper218

Umm, because buying the premium would require additional money. Isn't that your main point, that it's already included in the price. Well, only about $60 of it is included. Really sad that I have to actually point that out, but this is the internet.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Who cares if it's not premium. Just buy premium yourself


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jimreaper218*
> 
> Umm, because buying the premium would require additional money. Isn't that your main point, that it's already included in the price. Well, only about $60 of it is included. Really sad that I have to actually point that out, but this is the internet.


Considering Newegg doesnt state its the special editions at 729 lets just wait and see what they indeed are.


----------



## jimreaper218

http://videocardz.com/46303/amd-radeon-r9-290x-final-specifications-bf4-bundle-available-preorder

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Considering Newegg doesnt state its the special editions at 729 lets just wait and see what they indeed are.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jimreaper218*
> 
> 
> 
> http://videocardz.com/46303/amd-radeon-r9-290x-final-specifications-bf4-bundle-available-preorder


I see nowhere on that box that states its "Premium"


----------



## jimreaper218

Fair enough, but it doesn't actually say $729.00 either so we're all living in a world of assumptions.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I see nowhere on that box that states its "Premium"


----------



## USFORCES

It's ewegg jacking up prices, easy money taking advantage of costumer's. Newegg jacked up the 780 classified to $729.99 for a week after the lighting failed


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jimreaper218*
> 
> Fair enough, but it doesn't actually say $729.00 either so we're all living in a world of assumptions.


But it does actually say 729


----------



## jimreaper218

No, it says $9,999.99.. For that price I sure hope it's Premium. It looks like we both have irrefutable internet evidence!!!!










Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> But it does actually say 729


----------



## Opcode

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> I don't know why people keep saying this. AMD has said nothing to indicate that BF4 is going in the bundle for these cards, and it would not make any sense to sell a limited edition BF4 bundled card if every card included BF4. Logic dictates that the regular 290X cards will not include BF4, at least not at launch.


To shed my thoughts on the subject. These cards will most likely come out before BF4 does (Oct 29), so the idea of getting a limited edition BF4 card is that you also get the game before anyone else. Which could explain as to why the price is sky jacked. And why there is only a limited supply of them (8,000).


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Opcode*
> 
> To shed my thoughts on the subject. These cards will most likely come out before BF4 does (Oct 29), so the idea of getting a limited edition BF4 card is that you also get the game before anyone else. Which could explain as to why the price is sky jacked. And why there is only a limited supply of them (8,000).


My guess is AMD can't afford the surplus amount they had for the other bundles. We all know they had to be taking a hit with the bundles.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jimreaper218*
> 
> No, it says $9,999.99.. For that price I sure hope it's Premium. It looks like we both have irrefutable internet evidence!!!!


......







I'll take four please!
I was going to buy a Cadillac ATS-V, these look like a better deal though. (the new eldorado is still 20k more )
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*
> 
> My guess is AMD can't afford the surplus amount they had for the other bundles. We all know they had to be taking a hit with the bundles.


I think the fact only two cards get the new architecture is proof enough that AMD is low on surplus.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Opcode*
> 
> To shed my thoughts on the subject. These cards will most likely come out before BF4 does (Oct 29), so the idea of getting a limited edition BF4 card is that you also get the game before anyone else. Which could explain as to why the price is sky jacked. And why there is only a limited supply of them (8,000).


Except all you get with the pre-order/bundle is a code for the game, which doesn't unlock until the 29th for everyone. Even if you did get early access somehow, who would you play with? The other 8000 people who pre-ordered?


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Single Player Campaign? That's all I play anyway...


----------



## Tojara

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> I think the fact only two cards get the new architecture is proof enough that AMD is low on surplus.


Rather that it's not profitable (enough) to design new 28nm chips and it's better to spend the effort of on 20nm GPUs instead.


----------



## skupples

Maybe... Watch the 20nm roll out only be two gpu models as well, with rebranded 290's.

20nm = 3x the price of production of 28, still. anyway's, this has been debated to death in other thread (possibly this one too)


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Maybe... Watch the 20nm roll out only be two gpu models as well, with rebranded 290's.
> 
> 20nm = 3x the price of production of 28, still. anyway's, this has been debated to death in other thread (possibly this one too)


This. We should not be surprised to see this trend...continue. We should also expect the first 20nm products to be ridiculously priced.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Let's not forget that the entire 6xx series was made up of basically rebranded GK104's...


----------



## Booty Warrior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Let's not forget that the entire 6xx series was made up of basically rebranded GK104's...












The 600 series was the debut of GK104, how is that rebranding?


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Its not but each card was made from the same exact chip from the 660Ti on up to the 690. The chips were just branded different sku's, aka "rebrands." That's just as bad IMO...


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Its not but each card was made from the same exact chip from the 660Ti on up to the 690. The chips were just branded different sku's, aka "rebrands." That's just as bad IMO...


That's a pretty loose definition of "rebrand". The 7950 is a rebranded 7970? The 7850 is a rebranded 7870? Nvidia covered three SKUs with GK104, right (I don't really pay attention to the lower level chips)? 660Ti, 670, and 680 (and then 690 if you want to include that). So one more than 7950, 7970, and 7990.


----------



## Booty Warrior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> That's a pretty loose definition of "rebrand". The 7950 is a rebranded 7970? The 7850 is a rebranded 7870? Nvidia covered three SKUs with GK104, right (I don't really pay attention tot he lower level chips)? 660Ti, 670, and 680 (and then 690 if you want to include that). So one more than 7950, 7970, and 7990.


Don't forget the 7870 Tahiti LE. AMD had just as many based off of their flagship die in the end.

I'm not sure why he'd single out the 600 series when publishing multiple SKUs based off bins is standard procedure...









I mean look back at Fermi's lineup: GTX 590, 580, 570, 560 Ti-448 were all based off of GF110. None of those are rebrands.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Youre just being dense if you are really comparing 500 series with 600 series. Fermi had gf110, gf104 and gf114 whereas every single chip in the 600 series was a rebranded gk104....


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Oops, just remembered gf104 was 400 series gtx 460. Still, 600 series was s major disappointment to us fermi vets who didn't want our gtx 680 to share a chip with the 660ti...


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Youre just being dense if you are really comparing 500 series with 600 series. Fermi had gf110, gf104 and gf114 whereas every single chip in the 600 series was a rebranded gk104....


GK104, GK106, GK107...


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario*
> 
> GK104, GK106, GK107...


And GK 108 I think.


----------



## Booty Warrior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Youre just being dense if you are really comparing 500 series with 600 series. Fermi had gf110, gf104 and gf114 whereas every single chip in the 600 series was a rebranded gk104....


Umm, no.

The 660 Ti-690 were GK104.

The 650 Ti-660 were GK106.

The lower end 600s were GK107.

And again, different SKUs based off bins aren't rebrands in the first place. That happens with every generation, dude.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I'm talking about at launch. All the 600 series cards at launch were GK104 derivatives. I can't believe you guys of all people have forgotten how much outrage there was around here when that was announced.







How many people have whined that we didn't get a proper GTX 680 and that GK104 was supposed to be the 660Ti blah, blah, blah. You're talking semantics when being picky about the actual definition of rebrand, dude. You know what I meant...


----------



## Booty Warrior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I'm talking about at launch. All the 600 series cards at launch were GK104 derivatives. I can't believe you guys of all people have forgotten how much outrage there was around here when that was announced.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many people have whined that we didn't get a proper GTX 680 and that GK104 was supposed to be the 660Ti blah, blah, blah. You're talking semantics when being picky about the actual definition of rebrand, dude. You know what I meant...


Hahaha, I honestly have no idea what you meant.

Someone was speculating the 20nm parts would be die-shrunk rebrands and you said the 600 series were all rebrands. And I'm supposed to somehow infer that you're _actually_ talking about the 600 series lacking a big die flagship?


----------



## Forceman

And AMD launched the HD 7xxx series with only chips based off Tahiti (7970 and 7950). How is that any different? It sounds like your complaint is that we didn't get GK100/GK110 initially, but that's a completely different argument than "Kepler cards are all rebrands".


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Lol, did you miss my post where I clarified that they weren't actually rebrands but were just as bad IMO? Here let me repost it for you:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> *Its not* but each card was made from the same exact chip from the 660Ti on up to the 690. *The chips were just branded different sku's, aka "rebrands." That's just as bad IMO*...


----------



## Forceman

Did you want them to make a different chip for every SKU? To not re-use dies for different market segments? What would be the point of that? Really, this is nothing new, both AMD and Nvidia have been doing it basically forever.


----------



## Booty Warrior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Lol, did you miss my post where I clarified that they weren't actually rebrands but were just as bad IMO? Here let me repost it for you:


That quote has nothing to do with big vs small dies.









As was pointed out (several times now) SKUs based off different bins of the same chip is the status quo.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

So you guys saw absolutely NOTHING out of the ordinary when Nvidia launched the 600 series? Nothing at all changed from Fermi eh? I mean I'm just talking as a GTX 580 guy who went with a 7970 because I didn't want a 660Ti chip in my 680. In case you didn't notice, AMD has never put the same chip in their flagship card as in their entry level one (at least since I joined OCN) but if you guys see nothing at all wrong with it, well, I'll just shut up then...


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> So you guys saw absolutely NOTHING out of the ordinary when Nvidia launched the 600 series? Nothing at all changed from Fermi eh? I mean I'm just talking as a GTX 580 guy who went with a 7970 because I didn't want a 660Ti chip in my 680. In case you didn't notice, AMD has never put the same chip in their flagship card as in their entry level one (at least since I joined OCN) but if you guys see nothing at all wrong with it, well, I'll just shut up then...


I understood what you meant, but it was confusing the way you were wording it. We never got a true highend sku in the 600 series, but rather a midrange chip with multiple skus.


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> I understood what you meant, but it was confusing the way you were wording it. We never got a true highend sku in the 600 series, but rather a midrange chip with multiple skus.


Yup, the only reason I think it was still worth it over the 7970 was xfire was broken the vast majority of the time I owned 670's.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I'm talking about at launch. All the 600 series cards at launch were GK104 derivatives. I can't believe you guys of all people have forgotten how much outrage there was around here when that was announced.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many people have whined that we didn't get a proper GTX 680 and that GK104 was supposed to be the 660Ti blah, blah, blah. You're talking semantics when being picky about the actual definition of rebrand, dude. You know what I meant...


Ehe, yeah, I had no idea what you meant. If you were saying that the GK 104 die is designed for not for the flagship and the 680 is suppose to be similar to titan then I agree. Speaking of which, we heard absolutely nothing regarding gk 100. Canceled due to untold reasons? Who knows.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

SOmebody was complaining about AMD using rebrands. I made an equivalency argument that it was no worse than what Nvidia did with the 600 series by releasing entry level to flagship level cards with the same GPU's. I actually think that is worse than rebrands as at least the flagship AMD card will have a proper flagship GPU in it...

Oh, and I was at work trying to dictate responses on my phone between patients so, yeah...


----------



## Forceman

The GTX 780 has a flagship GPU in it, doesn't it? So after all the current rebrands (actual rebrands this time) you'll have a flagship GPU in the flagship card from Nvidia and a flagship GPU in the flagship card from AMD, same as always.

Your complaint is basically that Nvidia was able to compete with the top-end AMD part with what would typically be a mid-range GPU, and so they sold it in the top-end card. But that's an argument that's been hashed over hundreds of times in the past 18 months, and is completely different from a "rebrand". It wasn't like Nvidia had much of an alternative at the time - release a not-ready-yet GK100 that was 10-15% faster than a 7970 but had terrible yields, or release the GPU that actually competed head to head with the 7970 and was manufacturable. There aren't really any good options there.

And no, no one was happy about not getting a big Kepler 18 months ago, but I don't think anyone is happy about waiting until late 2014 for 20nm cards either. Sometimes there just isn't an alternative.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I already admitted that, the nomenclature police had a hissy fit about it. Today's products will never change the fact that the 600 series was made up entirely of one GPU for months meanwhile AMD has never tried to hock their low range GPU as a flagship, so which is better?

And btw, I never have bought into that whole farce about Nvidia being unimpressed with the 7970 and then deciding to use GK104 for everything from entry to flagship. GK100 didn't pan out probably for the same reasons GF100 didn't and they were just lucky that Kepler scaled so well because GK104 was simply all they had to compete with at the time...


----------



## skupples

profit>evolution. Such is the way of life, and it will never change. See, they go hand in hand. Same as always, the military get's the good stuff first.


----------



## Forceman

But you keep saying that the entire 600 lineup was made up of one GPU when it wasn't. There are 3 chips in the 600 series, GK104, GK106, and GJK107 - AMD has three also, no? Tahiti, Pitcairn, and Cape Verde (and then later Bonaire, I guess)? AMD has three Tahiti cards and Nvidia has three GK104 cards. Heck, the GTX 560 Ti 448 was a GF110, wasn't it? So you had three during Fermi also. Complaints about which chip they used aside, the product stack from that chip is the same as always. And the AMD 7xxx series was made up of only Tahiti chips for months until the 7870/7850 was released, same as the delay between the 680/670 and 660Ti. So I don't see why you think this generation is any different than any other, except for which chip was used.

And if GK100 didn't exist in a manufacturable condition, does that not make GK104 the top-end chip by default?

Edit: And if you look at the entire 28nm line-up, Tahiti is to Hawaii as GK104 is to GK110, so AMD did use their low-end chip (Tahiti) as a flagship part (7970).


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> But you keep saying that the entire 600 lineup was made up of one GPU when it wasn't. There are 3 chips in the 600 series, GK104, GK106, and GJK107 - AMD has three also, no? Tahiti, Pitcairn, and Cape Verde (and then later Bonaire, I guess)? AMD has three Tahiti cards and Nvidia has three GK104 cards. Heck, the GTX 560 Ti 448 was a GF110, wasn't it? So you had three during Fermi also. Complaints about which chip they used aside, the product stack from that chip is the same as always. And the AMD 7xxx series was made up of only Tahiti chips for months until the 7870/7850 was released, same as the delay between the 680/670 and 660Ti. So I don't see why you think this generation is any different than any other, except for which chip was used.
> 
> And if GK100 didn't exist in a manufacturable condition, does that not make GK104 the top-end chip by default?
> 
> Edit: And if you look at the entire 28nm line-up, Tahiti is to Hawaii as GK104 is to GK110, so AMD did use their low-end chip (Tahiti) as a flagship part (7970).


Read what I posted again, I said for months all they had was GK104. Those other Kepler chips didn't come out until much later and they were all at the very bottom end. It would be like AMD having tried to sell a Barts as the 6970 or a Pitcairn as the 7970. I would rather have rebrands than entry level chips masquerading as a flagship.

Re your Edit - You are making that argument now, in October of 2013. AMD didn't try to release Pitcairn as the 7970 last year did they? Totally different and intellectually dishonest argument and you know it...


----------



## skupples

in case anyone was wondering. Yes you can mix 280x w/ 7970's.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Read what I posted again, I said for months all they had was GK104. Those other Kepler chips didn't come out until much later and they were all at the very bottom end. It would be like AMD having tried to sell a Barts as the 6970 or a Pitcairn as the 7970. I would rather have rebrands than entry level chips masquerading as a flagship.
> 
> Re your Edit - You are making that argument now, in October of 2013. AMD didn't try to release Pitcairn as the 7970 last year did they? Totally different and intellectually dishonest argument and you know it...


And initially all AMD had was Tahiti. Nvidia: 680 - Mar, 670 - May, 660 Ti - Aug, 660 - Sep. AMD: 7970 - Jan, 7950 - Later Jan, 7770 - Feb, 7870 - Mar. So yes, AMD revealed their product stack quicker, but the end result is the same. You keep getting wrapped around GK104 being in the GTX 680, but the product stacks (how many chips and how many cards from each chip) are the same for both manufacturers, and pretty much the same as previous generations.

And yes, I was being facetious about Hawaii, but it does check a lot of the same boxes as GK110. Larger Mem bus - Check, More VRAM- Check, More shaders - Check, Same process - Check, Many months later- Check, Different chip layout - Probably check (the 290X is probably not a straight scaled Tahiti just like GK110 is not a straight scaled GK104). So there are a lot of parallels there.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Got it. Nvidia can do no wrong ever and anybody that disagrees with that must be proven wrong at all costs and no matter how silly and OT the argument gets. I take full responsibility for this thread derail, sorry guys...


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> And initially all AMD had was Tahiti. Nvidia: 680 - Mar, 670 - May, 660 Ti - Aug, 660 - Sep. AMD: 7970 - Jan, 7950 - Later Jan, 7770 - Feb, 7870 - Mar. So yes, AMD revealed their product stack quicker, but the end result is the same. You keep getting wrapped around GK104 being in the GTX 680, but the product stacks (how many chips and how many cards from each chip) are the same for both manufacturers, and pretty much the same as previous generations.
> 
> And yes, I was being facetious about Hawaii, but it does check a lot of the same boxes as GK110. Larger Mem bus - Check, More VRAM- Check, More shaders - Check, Same process - Check, Many months later- Check, Different chip layout - Probably check (the 290X is probably not a straight scaled Tahiti just like GK110 is not a straight scaled GK104). So there are a lot of parallels there.


It is obvious Tahiti was designed as a flagship and GK 104 is not. Simple. Computing.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Got it. Nvidia can do no wrong ever and anybody that disagrees with that must be proven wrong at all costs and no matter how silly and OT the argument gets. I take full responsibility for this thread derail, sorry guys...


Even in this thread, they can do no wrong...

in other news, AMD... INTEL OEM?!

amd, new intel server oem!?


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Testier*
> 
> It is obvious Tahiti was designed as a flagship and GK 104 is not. Simple. Computing.


I never said it wasn't, just that it ended up that way by default. But, does that make Nvidia or AMD look worse? Yes, Nvidia used a midrange GPU in the top end card, but it still competed with the flagship GPU.

And no matter how we got here, the end result is that both companies had three GPUs and a similar number of cards from them for a year or more.


----------



## fateswarm

I was calculating today that according to the most reliable specs available the performance of the 290 against 290X is very roughly about -10%. That means the "fair" price would be in an example price of $650 for the X to have around $590 for the non-X but that would be obviously ridiculous, because everyone would just hand over the flimsy $60 more and get the better model, hence the 290 is all likelihood would have an insanely better performance/price ratio (and even if the lower end cards have traditionaly the best performance/price ratio, it's not a problem since sometimes we go for a better one because a worse one simply doesn't do the job, and in this case -10% won't severe that much even a high end job).


----------



## Forceman

Nothing new there, the second best card is pretty much always the price performance leader. That's why there is so much interest in the 290. Hopefully they don't wait weeks or months to release it.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

So NDA doesn't lift for the 290 on Oct 15?


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Nothing new there, the second best card is pretty much always the price performance leader. That's why there is so much interest in the 290. Hopefully they don't wait weeks or months to release it.


Yeah I don't claim any miraculous originality here, and it's even almost identical to the Titan+780 case (even if Titan overdid it a bit, maybe they figured the name of the card is just awesome). It's mainly interesting because there has been a lot of talk about the X but little about the non-X. But your right, the non-X talk begins to pick up.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> So NDA doesn't lift for the 290 on Oct 15?


I haven't seen a clear answer on that. There's been a lot less talk about the 290 though (although the recent leaks covered both cards). How was the 6970 launch, I can't remember that far back. Did the 6950 get released at the same time?

I was just commenting on the month delay between 7970 and 7950 (and two month delay between 680 and 670)

Edit: I did find this funny (in hindsight) quote though:
Quote:


> The flagship model HD 7990 is still on track for a March 2012 release


----------



## fateswarm

Wait. A huge factor I keep forgetting is that 290 may be released much later. That would make it not an easy decision, then again, AMD has a small time frame to do it, they can't enter close to '04 for example, because the news about 20nm cards will start creeping in.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Wait. A huge factor I keep forgetting is that 290 may be released much later. That would make it not an easy decision, then again, AMD has a small time frame to do it, they can't enter close to '04 for example, because the news about 20nm cards will start creeping in.


Yeah, I think if they release it at the same time they risk losing some early adopters - people who would buy the 290X because they don't want to wait might go for the 290 instead if it was available at the same time.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I guess it would depend on just how close the 290 performs to the 290X. If its as close as the 780 and Titan then its almost certain that the 290 would cannibalize 290X sales unless they were a lot closer in price than we have all been speculating...


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Yeah, I think if they release it at the same time they risk losing some early adopters - people who would buy the 290X because they don't want to wait might go for the 290 instead if it was available at the same time.


I think at this point with the anticipation that has been built up by AMD for the 290X, even a 3-4 week gap between the release of the 290X and the 290 would be enough that people would snatch up the 290X in droves. I mean, it seems as if the Titan still gets quite a few sells even though the 780 is $350 cheaper.


----------



## skupples

People seem to forget that the titan was 2x anything else on the market, thus 2x the price. No one else had it, and wouldn't have it for close to a year. Thus, NV could once again charge what ever the hell they wanted for the enthusiast flagship.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> People seem to forget that the titan was *2x anything else* on the market, thus 2x the price.


What a metric measurement...


----------



## Woodies0351

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> LOL........Yeah....NO.
> 
> I just got the new 2014 Impala 2LZ....It's Baaaaaad. Was going to get the New Lexus IS250 or the BMW 325i but the Impala was just WOW. It's no longer the rental car agency trash car it used to be. *It's fit, finish and drive are every bit as good as the other two.* I will say it was weird paying nearly 40K for a chevy that isn't a truck.
> 
> Sorry, way OT.
> 
> Ummmm...yeah......those 290X's prices are tooo damn high!


Sorry for trolling... but....
The new impala may be pretty damn nice but saying it drives like a BMW... gimme a break... You ever drive a 3 series?


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> So NDA doesn't lift for the 290 on Oct 15?


Yes with release day the 31st


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Yes with release day the 31st


"...once the cards arrive in mid October"

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193_1555&products_id=25294&zenid=6808562a01fda47fe3eba158305bc356

Edit: Or are you specifically talking about the non-X version? Sorry


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> "...once the cards arrive in mid October"
> 
> http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193_1555&products_id=25294&zenid=6808562a01fda47fe3eba158305bc356
> 
> Edit: Or are you specifically talking about the non-X version? Sorry


I guess we'll see. BLT is showing an in stock date of Halloween


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> What a metric measurement...


double the core count, no competition for 1,000+ cores in sight for close to a year?! = double the price!


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> double the core count, no competition for 1,000+ cores in sight for close to a year?! = double the price!


Titan = 2X 660ti 3GB and 3 times the price.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> double the core count, no competition for 1,000+ cores in sight for close to a year?! = double the price!


I respectfully disagree with that logic. In this new pricing system, we're already paying more than what some feel is acceptable. If NV or AMD were to continuously double the flagship price point each time they pulled a substantial performance increase over their competitor, we'll continue to see the enthusiast price go up like it has recently.

I understand manufacturing costs are a hidden but real factor, but I find it hard to believe AMD would've set their new flagship price above $600 if it didn't look like such a great deal compared to a $1000 gpu. It's annoying when the "price/performance manufacturer" is basing prices against a $1000 yardstick.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> I respectfully disagree with that logic. In this new pricing system, we're already paying more than what some feel is acceptable. If NV or AMD were to continuously double the flagship price point each time they pulled a substantial performance increase over their competitor, we'll continue to see the enthusiast price go up like it has recently.
> 
> I understand manufacturing costs are a hidden but real factor, but I find it hard to believe AMD would've set their new flagship price above $600 if it didn't look like such a great deal compared to a $1000 gpu. It's annoying when the "price/performance manufacturer" is basing prices against a $1000 yardstick.


If Nvidia would have been able to put together a GK100 based GTX680, the Titan would have probably never come to be. The Titan would now be the 780 and the 780 would now be the 770. By some luck and a miracle for Nvidia, GK104 scaled really well and competed close enough to the 7970 that we suddenly shifted to a new pricing scale.


----------



## skupples

It's not my logic, it's just how I view NV's logic... Also, the price to manufacture this stuff has gone up considerably... The price of the stuff needed to manufacture has gone up considerably as well. The whole 20nm thing is a double edged sword. That stuff is going to be sky-high, if/when it shows up in desktop units. Luckily silver is back to where it was in 2010 (for now).

Most people are only using emotion when viewing the price of these products. The further they push this stuff, the more re-brands and single unit flagships we will see.

I'm going to speculate that if NV pushes 20nm next year, we will only see one of two of them in the lineup, the rest being GK110 rebrands.

If people think ~650 for 290X is expensive, just imagine what it would of been if they were able to push out 20nm in 2013... That's probably why it didnt happen... Besides the fact that yields are still incredibly low, and the materials needed for mass production are not mass producible yet.


----------



## fateswarm

Don't overthink it. These are difficult economic times globally and they'd both love to have a sweet spot around $400. Titan is a luxury product so it's overpriced, though the fact 780 is at $650 reflects the real price they could go down to due to manufacturing costs at the time of release.


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Don't overthink it. These are difficult economic times globally and they'd both love to have a sweet spot around $400. Titan is a luxury product so it's overpriced, though the fact 780 is at $650 reflects the real price they could go down to due to manufacturing costs at the time of release.


OMG that was a fairly intelligible response and free of conspiracy theory. Gratz


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> It's not my logic, it's just how I view NV's logic... Also, the price to manufacture this stuff has gone up considerably... The price of the stuff needed to manufacture has gone up considerably as well. The whole 20nm thing is a double edged sword. That stuff is going to be sky-high, if/when it shows up in desktop units. Luckily silver is back to where it was in 2010 (for now).
> 
> Most people are only using emotion when viewing the price of these products. The further they push this stuff, the more re-brands and single unit flagships we will see.
> 
> I'm going to speculate that if NV pushes 20nm next year, we will only see one of two of them in the lineup, the rest being GK110 rebrands.
> 
> If people think ~650 for 290X is expensive, just imagine what it would of been if they were able to push out 20nm in 2013... That's probably why it didnt happen... Besides the fact that yields are still incredibly low, and the materials needed for mass production are not mass producible yet.


I was careful not to insinuate that the logic you presented was "yours", and I feel I responded to it in the nature that you intended to present it in. Manufacturing prices will go up, yes. It's the nature of the industry, the materials, and the technology. However, these manufacturing costs aren't transparent, so there's really no way to tell for sure how much of a factor 'cost' is in the enthusiast graphics card marketplace. I'm not trying to act the role of a armchair MBA here, but I feel confident in my suspicion that costs are not the sole nor the most prominent factor in this price rise of 28nm GPUs. See below.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Don't overthink it. These are difficult economic times globally and they'd both love to have a sweet spot around $400. Titan is a luxury product so it's overpriced, though the fact 780 is at $650 reflects the real price they could go down to due to manufacturing costs at the time of release.


This is exactly what I was referring to. The Titan is indeed a luxury product; it is not a typical enthusiast card with a typical enthusiast price. My concern I raised previously is that AMD seems to be basing the price/performance balance of their new (and typical enthusiast card) on that of the Titan, which just feels wrong.

Try to take the Titan out of the marketplace completely for a moment. Imagine it never existed, and the 780 was the top dog. Then look to these rumours of the 290X. The rumoured performance increase feels in-line with the natural progression of performance per generation. But the rumoured price doesn't fit at all for a AMD card, which is typically priced friendlier to entice those consumers who place more emphasis on price-points.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> OMG that was a fairly intelligible response and free of conspiracy theory. Gratz


In addition, since $650 is most likely the price NV could go down to for their die size at the time of release and since prices should be lower now, it means two things. If AMD prices a smaller die card higher, they are pulling a Titan, at least partially. If they are fair, or at least on the 290 (non-X), it might go down to something like $550 or $500 (though it depends on the rate of price drops, word on the street is that we approach smaller process nodes, the price drops are slower, or at least it's related to the economic climate and they haven't figured it out).


----------



## amstech

The 290X's performance will dictate its final price.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Try to take the Titan out of the marketplace completely for a moment. Imagine it never existed, and the 780 was the top dog. Then look to these rumours of the 290X. The rumoured performance increase feels in-line with the natural progression of performance per generation. But the rumoured price doesn't fit at all for a AMD card, which is typically priced friendlier to entice those consumers who place more emphasis on price-points.


Agreed, although this isn't the first time AMD have taken shots at the single GPU crown in the past 5 years.


----------



## skupples

Man made economic problems have man made solutions. Don't for a second thing that some one some where isn't profiting off of this "poor economic climate" Second, what didn't pass quality check for government super computers became K Qaudro's, what didn't pass quadro became titans, what didn't pass titan became ref 780.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Man made economic problems have man made solutions. Don't for a second thing that some one some where isn't profiting off of this "poor economic climate"


They can, though the solutions aren't spectacular. e.g. I was reading in a leaked financial memo from Citibank that they have figured out that luxury products do not drop in demand in a crisis, because the rich remain rich and they buy luxury stuff anyway, which might explain stuff like the Titan, though it's not a strategy without faults since the rich are only so few, and they are fewer and fewer (not necessarily poorer). Then when you find a sweet spot for the "poor masses" (which I suspect it's around the $250 and $400 cards because that's where both companies seem to rush for mid-end products lately), you find out that your production costs are higher, which is reported to be true lately, and I have the impression it is a combined effect of having an energy crisis and the transistor starting reaching quantum mechanical limits, at least for conventional technology.

PS. Professional products are another beast since they seem to be less affected by personal income but more by Business needs, though they should be smaller in a crisis mainly because there are fewer Businesses.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> In addition, since $650 is most likely the price NV could go down to for their die size at the time of release and since prices should be lower now, it means two things. If AMD prices a smaller die card higher, they are pulling a Titan, at least partially. If they are fair, or at least on the 290 (non-X), it might go down to something like $550 or $500 (though it depends on the rate of price drops, word on the street is that we approach smaller process nodes, the price drops are slower, or at least it's related to the economic climate and they haven't figured it out).


When we hit 28nm fabrication and the first 7000 series cards came, and later the 600 series cards, a big stink was made over the price jump, and rightfully so. The manufacturers and foundries responded saying that due to the new technology, and much lower than expected yields, the costs of the cards were higher. A simple supply/demand situation and/or the need to recover costs on a smaller number of units.

Alright, sure, fair enough we guess....so long as that is true.

Flash forward to now, the 700 series and the new R series from AMD....pricing is still high and out of line. Yields are fine, this technology isn't new, we are still on 28nm, yet pricing has gone up again. Every excuse used about 2 years ago for the high prices of these products is invalid now, yet here we are, higher pricing.

Nvidia and AMD are businesses and are in business to make money, but as I said in a previous post of mine in this thread; they are both right on the cusp of pricing themselves out of their own market.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Man made economic problems have man made solutions. Don't for a second thing that some one some where isn't profiting off of this "poor economic climate" Second, what didn't pass quality check for government super computers became K Qaudro's, what didn't pass quadro became titans, what didn't pass titan became ref 780.


----------



## skupples

ai, so then we cross into the whole, rich getting richer, poor getting poorer, faster than ever before. (since it's been tracked starting in the early 1900's)


----------



## fleetfeather

All points made by others thus far seem fair enough to me.

Is civility returning to the rumours section!?


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Every excuse used about 2 years ago for the high prices of these products is invalid now


Waaaait, that's a jump of logic. We are told that prices drop. Not that they drop like a brick, and I personally never expected them to drop more than 10-20% in a year or more (plus there are some NVIDIA graphs showing the pricing situation over time for the various process nodes (from the time they were whining against TSMC prices) that you can google).


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> ai, so then we cross into the whole, rich getting richer, poor getting poorer, faster than ever before. (since it's been tracked starting in the early 1900's)


I'm personally an optimist. People were always the same "level of evil". It's just that now with better technology (in society in general), it's less important to be super rich in order to live a full live hence less people *choose* to be super rich hence they are satisfied with a normal life (or at least that's what I came up with when I *tried* to be optimistic).


----------



## Ultracarpet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> *I'm personally an optimist*. People were always the same "level of evil". It's just that now with better technology (in society in general), it's less important to be super rich in order to live a full live hence less people choose to be super rich hence they are satisfied with a normal life (or at least that's what I came up with when I tried to be optimistic).


Oh, now I see why you have been probably the most cynical person on earth about these new graphics cards and coming up with conspiracy theories about AMD.... because that makes sense....

Optimist.

Right.


----------



## skupples

speaking in generalities is a dangerous proposition. you know what... *Not the place, or the thread, or the website for this nonsense. Anywhoo....*

Time to go make my self useful on my day off... Even if it's my day off i feel like a slob sitting @ my pc all day.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> speaking in generalities is a dangerous proposition. you know what... *Not the place, or the thread, or the website for this nonsense. Anywhoo....*
> 
> Time to go make my self useful on my day off... Even if it's my day off i feel like a slob sitting @ my pc all day.


Same here. Even when I have a day off if I don't do something productive I feel useless.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Waaaait, that's a jump of logic. We are told that prices drop. Not that they drop like a brick, and I personally never expected them to drop more than 10-20% in a year or more (plus there are some NVIDIA graphs showing the pricing situation over time for the various process nodes (from the time they were whining against TSMC prices) that you can google).


I don't think we are talking about the same situation here, as there is no jump in logic.

I am talking about the pricing of flagship GPUs, 7970, 290X, 680, 780, etc, etc, as compared to previous flagship GPUs.

My big beef with the 290X is that it isn't "new", it is the same 28nm fab as the 7970, just bigger. At least Nvidia could argue with the 780 that it is a whole other beast from the 680, which is true being GK110 cut back. With AMD they simple are giving us more through maturity in fabrication and a larger die. The 7970 is ~365mm2, compared to the 290X at ~438mm2; larger die, with higher efficiency in manufacturing, higher performance.

The key thing here though, is it is still the same 28nm, and same architecture, we are just getting more of it! There is no reason other than extra profit that the 290X couldn't have been dropped at $550. 7970s have been selling sub $400 for an extremely long time now. We seen AMD do this crazy $600+ pricing on the 7970 when they entered the market first and didn't have competition, and it bit them in the ass. That isn't the situation now, AMD is coming into a market that has already been tapped, Nvidia with the 780 and Titan.

By coming in at $600+, and coming in late, AMD is just screwing themselves and the consumer. It also puts Nvidia in a prime position to strike back and make a quick price drop on the 780, moving more units.

Really, in the end, I think AMD is pricing around what they BELIEVE Mantle is going to do for them, and have inflated the MSRP.

EDIT:

The whole situation reminds me slightly of the FX 9000 series launch just a couple of months back. AMD thought their hype train was unstoppable, launched a product at a ridiculous price point, and were laughed at by everyone. God only knows how much damage that did to them in the eyes of the consumer.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> I don't think we are talking about the same situation here, as there is no jump in logic.
> 
> I am talking about the pricing of flagship GPUs, 7970, 290X, 680, 780, etc, etc, as compared to previous flagship GPUs.
> 
> My big beef with the 290X is that it isn't "new", it is the same 28nm fab as the 7970, just bigger. At least Nvidia could argue with the 780 that it is a whole other beast from the 680, which is true being GK110 cut back. With AMD they simple are giving us more through maturity in fabrication and a larger die. The 7970 is ~365mm2, compared to the 290X at ~438mm2; larger die, with higher efficiency in manufacturing, higher performance.
> 
> The key thing here though, is it is still the same 28nm, and same architecture, we are just getting more of it! There is no reason other than extra profit that the 290X couldn't have been dropped at $550. 7970s have been selling sub $400 for an extremely long time now. We seen AMD do this crazy $600+ pricing on the 7970 when they entered the market first and didn't have competition, and it bit them in the ass. That isn't the situation now, AMD is coming into a market that has already been tapped, Nvidia with the 780 and Titan.
> 
> By coming in at $600+, and coming in late, AMD is just screwing themselves and the consumer. It also puts Nvidia in a prime position to strike back and make a quick price drop on the 780, moving more units.
> 
> Really, in the end, I think AMD is pricing around what they BELIEVE Mantle is going to do for them, and have inflated the MSRP.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> The whole situation reminds me slightly of the FX 9000 series launch just a couple of months back. AMD thought their hype train was unstoppable, launched a product at a ridiculous price point, and were laughed at by everyone. God only knows how much damage that did to them in the eyes of the consumer.


I basically said all this a while back. Agree completely.


----------



## maneil99

Anything new come out? What is the general opinion, are people still thinking its a Titan Killer? I know we've seen two leaked price points at different ends of the spectrum


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maneil99*
> 
> Anything new come out? What is the general opinion, are people still thinking its a Titan Killer? I know we've seen two leaked price points at different ends of the spectrum


From everything I have read and seen, the 290X will be as fast as a Titan when both are at stock, but once both are overclocked the Titan will pull ahead just because it will clock a little higher. The 290X should be able to handle higher resolutions and anti-aliasing better than the Titan due to having more rops and higher memory bus width. Price is still out, but a few leaks suggest something from $579-$699.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> From everything I have read and seen, the 290X will be as fast as a Titan when both are at stock, but once both are overclocked the Titan will pull ahead just because it will clock a little higher. The 290X should be able to handle higher resolutions and anti-aliasing better than the Titan due to having more rops and higher memory bus width. Price is still out, but a few leaks suggest something from $579-$699.


Looking forward to the benches with both oced. Getting impatient waiting for either titan or r9 290x.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> When we hit 28nm fabrication and the first 7000 series cards came, and later the 600 series cards, a big stink was made over the price jump, and rightfully so. The manufacturers and foundries responded saying that due to the new technology, and much lower than expected yields, the costs of the cards were higher. A simple supply/demand situation and/or the need to recover costs on a smaller number of units.
> 
> Alright, sure, fair enough we guess....so long as that is true.
> 
> Flash forward to now, the 700 series and the new R series from AMD....pricing is still high and out of line. Yields are fine, this technology isn't new, we are still on 28nm, yet pricing has gone up again. Every excuse used about 2 years ago for the high prices of these products is invalid now, yet here we are, higher pricing.
> 
> Nvidia and AMD are businesses and are in business to make money, but as I said in a previous post of mine in this thread; they are both right on the cusp of pricing themselves out of their own market.


Agreed well said too.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

As long as their products continue to fly off the shelves they are nowhere near pricing themselves out of anything in my opinion.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> As long as their products continue to fly off the shelves they are nowhere near pricing themselves out of anything in my opinion.


Whether they fly off the shelves remains to be seen though. I have to agree releasing a card with performance that we've now had since February for 700$ even 650$ isn't enticing. Then again I'm expecting the 780 to drop in the coming weeks.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I don't think AMD is going to have any issues selling the 290X.


----------



## TheOCNoob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I don't think AMD is going to have any issues selling the 290X.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I don't think AMD is going to have any issues selling the 290X.


This. AMD has a massive, dedicated, NV hating following, that has been waiting on this for over a year. A following so deep, they literally get sick to the stomach when they think of having NV products inside their towers. A few of my college buddies were like this. This mindset reflects in all aspects of their live's. Kinda sad really.


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> This. AMD has a massive, dedicated, NV hating following, that has been waiting on this for over a year. A following so deep, they literally get sick to the stomach when they think of having NV products inside their towers. A few of my college buddies were like this. This mindset reflect in all aspects of their live's. Kinda sad really.


Not sure if you are aware but that goes both ways. Doesn't just exist in the red team. There is Green and Blue and it gets nasty and childish everywhere. Neither side is exempt.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> Not sure if you are aware but that goes both ways. Doesn't just exist in the red team. There is Green and Blue and it gets nasty and childish everywhere. Neither side is exempt.


Not sure if you were aware, but my statement did not imply that this does not exist with nvidia. Every company has it's cult following. The only thing i'm loyal to is performance. Titan was the only option when I ran into the 2gig wall on my 670's.(as titan was out long before 780 for those who forget)


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> Not sure if you are aware but that goes both ways. Doesn't just exist in the red team. There is Green and Blue and it gets nasty and childish everywhere. Neither side is exempt.


Neither is exempted or smart for that matter it needs to be a united fan base vs the companies not favoritism of one over the other.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> Oh, now I see why you have been probably the most cynical person on earth about these new graphics cards and coming up with conspiracy theories about AMD.... because that makes sense....
> 
> Optimist.
> 
> Right.


Nah, I'm just not a child. I find it exceptionally impossible to be a "fan" of either brand, especially when I know all three AMD, NV, Intel are practically in pseudo-duopolies and pseudo-monopolies. I try to be critical of all equally as they deserve it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> We seen AMD do this crazy $600+ pricing on the 7970 when they entered the market first and didn't have competition, and it bit them in the ass.


That's an important point. We've been bombarded with propaganda lately "AMD are the good guys, AMD always go for the cheap cards, they help the people". BS, 7970 launch.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> From everything I have read and seen, the 290X will be as fast as a Titan when both are at stock


Nah, I wouldn't be so optimistic even for that. There is talk about more efficient design and process, and I respect that, there is. But I get the impression it's not that spectacular and the die size will be a major indication, with some small variation (also because Titan is very slightly crippled compared to the full die).

PS. Also, what makes you so sure that NV will be better at OC?


----------



## szeged

3 days to go gentlemen, 3 days till my wallet hates me again.


----------



## thestache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> I don't think we are talking about the same situation here, as there is no jump in logic.
> 
> I am talking about the pricing of flagship GPUs, 7970, 290X, 680, 780, etc, etc, as compared to previous flagship GPUs.
> 
> My big beef with the 290X is that it isn't "new", it is the same 28nm fab as the 7970, just bigger. At least Nvidia could argue with the 780 that it is a whole other beast from the 680, which is true being GK110 cut back. With AMD they simple are giving us more through maturity in fabrication and a larger die. The 7970 is ~365mm2, compared to the 290X at ~438mm2; larger die, with higher efficiency in manufacturing, higher performance.
> 
> The key thing here though, is it is still the same 28nm, and same architecture, we are just getting more of it! There is no reason other than extra profit that the 290X couldn't have been dropped at $550. 7970s have been selling sub $400 for an extremely long time now. We seen AMD do this crazy $600+ pricing on the 7970 when they entered the market first and didn't have competition, and it bit them in the ass. That isn't the situation now, AMD is coming into a market that has already been tapped, Nvidia with the 780 and Titan.
> 
> By coming in at $600+, and coming in late, AMD is just screwing themselves and the consumer. It also puts Nvidia in a prime position to strike back and make a quick price drop on the 780, moving more units.
> 
> Really, in the end, I think AMD is pricing around what they BELIEVE Mantle is going to do for them, and have inflated the MSRP.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> The whole situation reminds me slightly of the FX 9000 series launch just a couple of months back. AMD thought their hype train was unstoppable, launched a product at a ridiculous price point, and were laughed at by everyone. God only knows how much damage that did to them in the eyes of the consumer.


I don't feel it's 'just' bigger.

http://videocardz.com/46610/amd-hawaii-r9-290-series-gpu-diagram-leaks


----------



## Sheyster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> Not sure if you are aware but that goes both ways. Doesn't just exist in the red team. There is Green and Blue and it gets nasty and childish everywhere. Neither side is exempt.


Then there are those in the middle, who go with the best they can afford from either team. I fall into that category.









I do my research and buy the best possible technology with what money I have available at the time.


----------



## supergamer

2x geometry processors.
Tessellation performance is gonna go through roof. Watch out for those Unigine scores.


----------



## skupples

AMD is not your friend. Unless you are a share holder.(for those who keep jumping on me)
NV is not your friend. Unless you are a share holder.


----------



## Sheyster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> AMD is not your friend. Unless you are a share holder.(for those who keep jumping on me)
> NV is not your friend. Unless you are a share holder.


This applies to pretty much any large publicly traded company.

Damn Harvard MBA's!


----------



## svenge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> AMD is not your friend. Unless you are a share holder.


Based on AMD's precipitous 90% decline in stock price over the last 7⅔ years, I don't think that their shareholders would be classified as "friends" at this point...


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *svenge*
> 
> Based on AMD's stock price in the last 7⅔ years, I don't think that their shareholders would be classified as "friends" at this point...


did the 7000 series come out early 2009?


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> did the 7000 series come out early 2009?


Your avatar was hilarious when I was listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWKJmbmOOf4


----------



## Tobiman

No one is your friend, ESPECIALLY when cash is involved.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> did the 7000 series come out early 2009?


4890 came out early 2009...


----------



## zooterboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *svenge*
> 
> Based on AMD's precipitous 90% decline in stock price over the last 7⅔ years, I don't think that their shareholders would be classified as "friends" at this point...


Their shareholders *have* to be friends, if they weren't, they would have sold their stock and bailed.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> AMD is not your friend. Unless you are a share holder.(for those who keep jumping on me)
> NV is not your friend. Unless you are a share holder.


AMD is a charity that loves me and wants me to have great low-cost CPUs and GPUs that crush competition while they're busy building non-profit orphanages and hospitals and stuff. NVIDIA on the other hand runs a racket.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario*
> 
> AMD is a charity that loves me and wants me to have great low-cost CPUs and GPUs that crush competition while they're busy building non-profit orphanages and hospitals and stuff. NVIDIA on the other hand runs a racket.


I heard amd is becoming a non-profit! /sarcasm


----------



## ZombieJon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *svenge*
> 
> Based on AMD's precipitous 90% decline in stock price over the last 7⅔ years, I don't think that their shareholders would be classified as "friends" at this point...










Look at that P/E!

Anyways...still better than SUNW.


----------



## fleetfeather

haha, I posted a comment in response to AMD's new 290X video the other day. It seems my sentiments are somewhat shared...


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







(link to the video if you really want, it's a huge waste of time though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQd7cFQfdb0)


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *svenge*
> 
> Based on AMD's precipitous 90% decline in stock price over the last 7⅔ years, I don't think that their shareholders would be classified as "friends" at this point...


A bit OT, but do you know who are "friends" right now?!

Musk and all the Tesla Motor shareholders!!!

I knew I should have bought shares back in February when they were ~$28 each...nothing like a ~450% return in 8 months....


----------



## barkinos98

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *svenge*
> 
> Based on AMD's precipitous 90% decline in stock price over the last 7⅔ years, I don't think that their shareholders would be classified as "friends" at this point...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A bit OT, but do you know who are "friends" right now?!
> 
> Musk and all the Tesla Motor shareholders!!!
> 
> I knew I should have bought shares back in February when they were ~$28 each...nothing like a ~450% return in 8 months....
Click to expand...

dude it would be so awesome if tesla integrated AMD's "good" stuff into their cars


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barkinos98*
> 
> dude it would be so awesome if tesla integrated AMD's "good" stuff into their cars


Lol, just for giggles I think I will buy some AMD stock, it is cheap now. If Mantle ends up blowing up, and they start crushing on Nvidia it only needs to jump to about $50 to make a nice fat return.


----------



## barkinos98

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *barkinos98*
> 
> dude it would be so awesome if tesla integrated AMD's "good" stuff into their cars
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, just for giggles I think I will buy some AMD stock, it is cheap now. If Mantle ends up blowing up, and they start crushing on Nvidia it only needs to jump to about $50 to make a nice fat return.
Click to expand...

sucks to be me man...
afaik i need someone which lives in the US to allow me to buy US stock :/


----------



## Woodies0351

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Lol, just for giggles I think I will buy some AMD stock, it is cheap now. If Mantle ends up blowing up, and they start crushing on Nvidia it only needs to jump to about $50 to make a nice fat return.


It only has to go to 15 for a nice fat return.... ;-)


----------



## skupples

AMD is touting two possible successes right now. The new server software(being ran on intel chips, which is a down side) & mantle. That avrg though, ouch. Jim cramer say's buy...









I think you all have talked me into ~500. I don't see a jump to 50 though, that would be just silly.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> AMD is touting two possible successes right now. The new server software(being ran on intel chips, which is a down side) & mantle. That avrg though, ouch. Jim cramer say's buy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you all have talked me into ~500. I don't see a jump to 50 though, that would be just silly.


I Can't do math while distracted apparently.


----------



## provost

Edit


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> I thought about throwing $5,000 at Tesla Motors this past Winter........
> 
> It would have translated into about $2.4 Million last week.


I think you did that math wrong. It's up from $30 to $180, so $5K would have turned into $30K. Still a nice gain though.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> I think you did that math wrong. It's up from $30 to $180, so $5K would have turned into $30K. Still a nice gain though.


oh, i assumed he ment 5,000 shares, which would still only be 900k.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> I think you did that math wrong. It's up from $30 to $180, so $5K would have turned into $30K. Still a nice gain though.


Yup, sure as hell screwed that up....

% =/= X

Damn I need to stop doing that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> oh, i assumed he ment 5,000 shares, which would still only be 900k.


Nope, did a X not a %....


----------



## fateswarm

Stock? On anything technology? I hope you are doing it short term before anything long term faces the impending doom of the quantum mechanical limits of the common silicon era (exciting things ahead after 7nm/ year 2017, we will either have a hiatus that may last more than 10 years or a new technology paradigm).


----------



## skupples

I didn't say I was putting it down for the retirement fund...









meh, that lolguy kinda implies rudeness.

That is, my perception of him is that of a slightly rude smiley.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Stock? On anything technology? I hope you are doing it short term before anything long term faces the impending doom of the quantum mechanical limits of the common silicon era (exciting things ahead after 7nm/ year 2017, we will either have a hiatus that may last more than 10 years or a new technology paradigm).


I wouldn't worry too much about not having a silicon replacement. It is something they have known was going to be needed for a very long time, and there are several viable options.


----------



## Fyrwulf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Panzerfury*
> 
> You don't know how much Mantle will improve the performance, nor how many games will support it in the near future.


Well, we know that BF4 will run on the hardware that the Xbox One and PS4 are packing, which are low end APU parts. We know that without Mantle similar parts on the market won't run BF4. That's a pretty big hint right there. As for which games, try every one that is released for both console and PC, plus any PC-only game that has any sort of optimization for AMD games (Star Citizen being a good example).


----------



## skupples

Actually, right now mantle is only slated for FROSTBITE engine products.(EA onry)


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> I wouldn't worry too much about not having a silicon replacement. It is something they have known was going to be needed for a very long time, and there are several viable options.


I wouldn't be so sure. I looked at the science behind it and I'm convinced there is a concrete limit on conventional technology, e.g. at a point you simply can't make the transistor contraption any more because the building blocks are too small, without even going to quantum mechanical limits creeping in before even reaching that, which they already start showing up, e.g. notice how it's harder to overclock a processor nowadays (it's not just because "intel goes for laptops", that's a fallacy) and they are generally slower per new iteration (even if they seem to have tried to slow it down even more with smaller dies to save some (market) time).

Then if you go to completely different paradigms - e.g. Graphene, even Intel's own optics, or Graphene-Hybrids - you notice that it is very unclear if they will have a competitor to conventional silicon in years or even decades and even if they are competitors in time, concerning the subject at hand, the stock of these companies, it is not very likely (and I would say it's unlikely) that they would be able to adopt them in their technology before someone else takes their position in the market.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Actually, right now mantle is only slated for FROSTBITE engine products.(EA onry)


Several other studios have signed up to support Mantle on their engines, there is a thread about it here in the news section.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> I wouldn't be so sure. I looked at the science behind it and I'm convinced there is a concrete limit on conventional technology, e.g. at a point you simply can't make the transistor contraption any more because the building blocks are too small, without even going to quantum mechanical limits creeping in before even reaching that, which they already start showing up, e.g. notice how it's harder to overclock a processor nowadays (it's not just because "intel goes for laptops", that's a fallacy) and they are generally slower per new iteration (even if they seem to have tried to slow it down even more with smaller dies to save some (market) time).
> 
> Then if you go to completely different paradigms - e.g. Graphene, even Intel's own optics, or Graphene-Hybrids - you notice that it is very unclear if they will have a competitor to conventional silicon in years or even decades and even if they are competitors in time, concerning the subject at hand, the stock of these companies, it is not very likely (and I would say it's unlikely) that they would be able to adopt them in their technology before someone else takes their position in the market.


The problem isn't the building blocks being too small, the problem is the transistors themselves getting too close to each other. The current smallest node is 22nm, which means the transistors are 22nm apart from one another. Between these transistors is a gate that is controlled by an electrical signal, opening and closing the gate allows current to flow between the transistors.,

The problem we run into is as these transistors get closer together, smaller manufacturing node, we lose the ability to control the electron jump from one transistor to another. Eventually transistors are going to get so close, that they will just jump on their own, we won't be able to control it. This is expected to happen between 5nm and 7nm; which really isn't that far out.

So what options do we have? New materials that will let us get down to that level and still control the transistors, a new type of transistor completely, or actually some say stacking transistors. In stacking the transistors we would take silicon to the smallest controllable level, say 8nm, and then begin stacking transistors to put more on a die.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> So what options do we have? New materials that will let us get down to that level and still control the transistors, a new type of transistor completely, or actually some say stacking transistors. In stacking the transistors we would take silicon to the smallest controllable level, say 8nm, and then begin stacking transistors to put more on a die.


I was thinking about stacking. NVIDIA is planning to use it on 16nm, to stack VRAM on top of their die. From their language, I was getting the idea the main benefit is better latency since VRAM is that way almost part of the GPU, though apart from that it might not be very different from multicorring (since temperature ain't going to be reduced with it most likely).


----------



## Clovertail100

New price confirmed for the R9 290X!

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127758


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mookster*
> 
> New price confirmed for the R9 290X!
> 
> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127758


Damn it. I fell for it. ./hate


----------



## AJR1775

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mookster*
> 
> New price confirmed for the R9 290X!
> 
> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127758


lulz.....16 card bundle?


----------



## zooterboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mookster*
> 
> New price confirmed for the R9 290X!
> 
> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127758


WOW.

Shipping costs are high.


----------



## Dynamo11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mookster*
> 
> New price confirmed for the R9 290X!
> 
> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127758


Deal of the century!


----------



## fateswarm

It's out of stock. You missed out. Next one costs 20,000.


----------



## Phishy714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mookster*
> 
> New price confirmed for the R9 290X!
> 
> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127758


The interesting part is that when this was first leaked (the $729 price in the code), it was QUICKLY replaced by $9,999 (in the code).

So now, that 10k price is showing up - which only furthers to prove that this card will come in at $729....?


----------



## phenom01

I coulda swore all the legit "leaks" were calling for 729.99-749.99.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> The interesting part is that when this was first leaked (the $729 price in the code), it was QUICKLY replaced by $9,999 (in the code).
> 
> So now, that 10k price is showing up - which only furthers to prove that this card will come in at $729....?


Some posts have shown websites showing the card going for under $600.
http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=thispage&thispage=0110040015014_BTF3729P.shtml
Then the Gigabyte one ($700)
http://www.shopblt.com/item/gigabyte-gv-r929xd5-4gd-b-radeon-r9-290x-4gb/gigmbd_gvr929xd54gdb.html
Possibly the 290x without BF4 Limited will cost MSRP $600 and the BF4 Limited will cost $700?


----------



## fateswarm

I suspect the prices were pulled out of the retailers' behinds. *But*. They may contain information, that they know how much it will cost *them*, without having AMD's RRP yet, hence the prices you see might be the lowest ones they can have a profit with, hence e.g. if a retailer has it on 750 and another retailer on 1000, ignore the 1000 and assume the lowest can be 750 with them having a profit (and that it also means the one pulling the 1000 is crooked).


----------



## skupples

pre-order prices often fluctuate. They set a base line number, then change the price if need be @ launch.


----------



## Terse

AMD is starting to cut it pretty close to the BF4 date, especially if you factor in shipping. Wouldn't want to hear the complaints that would come from the BF4 pre-order people.


----------



## skupples

Maybe both are about to get delayed....


----------



## Opcode

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Maybe both are about to get delayed....


R9 290X is definitely launching this month.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Opcode*
> 
> R9 290X is definitely launching this month.


Yeah, they also said you could pre-order on Oct 3. How'd that work out for North America?


----------



## JonnyMark

Times sure have changed, I remember spending $400 getting a high end graphic card that last you for years (Radeon 9800 pro).

Now that price is at $700+?


----------



## fleetfeather

30% Manufacturing costs, 70% Nvidia


----------



## SkillzKillz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JonnyMark*
> 
> Times sure have changed, I remember spending $400 getting a high end graphic card that last you for years (Radeon 9800 pro).
> 
> Now that price is at $700+?


Stick it out, run the mins.









6850 going strong!


----------



## Forceman

Listed on Amazon finally:

http://www.amazon.com/HIS-Boost-2xDLDVI-D-Graphics-H290XF4GD/dp/B00FXLMMK2

Ouch on the [listed] price though.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Listed on Amazon finally:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/HIS-Boost-2xDLDVI-D-Graphics-H290XF4GD/dp/B00FXLMMK2
> 
> Ouch on the [listed] price though.


What happened to 529??


----------



## ebduncan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> What happened to 529??


No idea of actual performance yet. I think a lot of folks thinking these cards are going to go for 599 or 500$ are thinking of the 290 non X. Reviews will be up soon though.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ebduncan*
> 
> No idea of actual performance yet. I think a lot of folks thinking these cards are going to go for 599 or 500$ are thinking of the 290 non X. Reviews will be up soon though.


Some swear on their momma that the 290x was going to be in 549 range!


----------



## fateswarm

It's like they try to blackmail users that want BF4 to not even have a very reliable set of benchmarks before they buy it. Their marketing brains must be really bad. By making deception so obvious you lose customers (it reminds of how they had obvious screen stuttering for years and then only when a few popular websites exposed it they fixed it, NVIDIA didn't wait for a public outcry, they had better QA or just listened to the common players more closely or they may just play with their cards sometimes.)


----------



## svenge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> It's like they try to blackmail users that want BF4 to not even have a very reliable set of benchmarks before they buy it.


Kinda reminiscent of their Bulldozer launch, actually.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *svenge*
> 
> Kinda reminiscent of their Bulldozer launch, actually.


the card is too close to lauch date... i wouldnt be suprised if they actually perform better than TITAN.


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> the card is too close to lauch date... i wouldnt be suprised if they actually perform better than TITAN.


so far if we take all benches seen and averaged em so to speak: the 290X beats the 780 and is on par with Titan.


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> What happened to 529??


This is a shock to the faithful if it holds true...


----------



## Terse

Is that a BF4 bundle? I can't tell.


----------



## skupples

I'm convinced NV & AMD are consorting. & it probably will be as fast as a stock titan @ 950 some mhz.

RAM companies do it all the time.


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> This is a shock to the faithful if it holds true...


Could be true. Based on it's performance and the opposition's pricing of similar product(s). If that is the final price i won't be getting it as that would probably mean $1000 AU. But i'm pretty sure when amazon don't know the price they deliberately over shoot it and refund the difference, pretty sure they did this with the wiiU. I'm hopeful but not confident.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> I'm convinced NV & AMD are consorting. & it probably will be as fast as a stock titan @ 950 some mhz.
> 
> RAM companies do it all the time.


Count me in on this belief as well. It's mighty convenient how things have turned out. Nvidia releases Titan at 1000$, then the 780 months later at 650$ making it look great. Then given time AMD prepares the competition and launches at 650-700$ for flagship and 550$ for second tier (290) thus raising GPU prices across the board despite having competition and them stating they weren't going to price it that high.

It's very much Nvidia & AMD vs the consumer.


----------



## Phishy714

290X NDA will be lifted on the day its released.

October 24th.


----------



## pcfoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> 290X NDA will be lifted on the day its released.
> 
> October 24th.


Hope all the drama queens in this site will realise what the rest of us already know:

you cannot hold your breath long enough to hurt yourself, so...just be patient. It is a stupid card after all, and it will be out soon enough.
Thought we are here to enjoy ourselves, and not live in artificial agony.


----------



## skupples

+1 +1 +1!!! Still not fast enough, but one step closer! I'll re-up on GPU's when it's three or four steps forward.


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Welp, Amazon rarely changes prices on pre-orders, so they generally put what is guaranteed to be the price.

So looks like the Newegg leak was perfectly legitimate @ $729.99. Contained the common Newegg markup, and Amazon contains the better pricing of the two. Basically means that there is pretty much no chance of a $549.99 R9-290X.

Wonder where Stay Puft is?


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> so far if we take all benches seen and averaged em so to speak: the 290X beats the 780 and is on par with Titan.


The benchmarks that most likely are in majority advertising AMD. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Titan destroyed. But truth is truth.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*
> 
> Count me in on this belief as well. It's mighty convenient how things have turned out. Nvidia releases Titan at 1000$, then the 780 months later at 650$ making it look great. Then given time AMD prepares the competition and launches at 650-700$ for flagship and 550$ for second tier (290) thus raising GPU prices across the board despite having competition and them stating they weren't going to price it that high.
> 
> It's very much Nvidia & AMD vs the consumer.


It's becoming more and more evident isn't it.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> Welp, Amazon rarely changes prices on pre-orders, so they generally put what is guaranteed to be the price.
> 
> So looks like the Newegg leak was perfectly legitimate @ $729.99. Contained the common Newegg markup, and Amazon contains the better pricing of the two. Basically means that there is pretty much no chance of a $549.99 R9-290X.
> 
> Wonder where Stay Puft is?


Detention.

btw, I cant even find this, unless i click on the link, and the image has been removed Amazon 290X pre NDA Pricing


----------



## rhino321

Found R9 290X prices at Finnish websites, prices from 687-750 euros (€). It's a little high isn't it? Of course price can drop tomorrow, but think these are final order prices before the price settle in 3-4 weeks after launch.

http://hintavertailu.muropaketti.com/556073/msi-msi-r9-290x-4gd5-amd-4gb-gddr5-vga


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rhino321*
> 
> Found R9 290X prices at Finnish websites, prices from 687-750 euros (€). It's a little high isn't it? Of course price can drop tomorrow, but think these are final order prices before the price settle in 3-4 weeks after launch.
> 
> http://hintavertailu.muropaketti.com/556073/msi-msi-r9-290x-4gd5-amd-4gb-gddr5-vga


We have no idea what's high & low until we know the actual MSRP. Anything else is just speculation, and each persons perceived value of the product.

That does seem high though, that's almost 1,000$ USD


----------



## rhino321

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> We have no idea what's high & low until we know the actual MSRP. Anything else is just speculation, and each persons perceived value of the product.
> 
> That does seem high though, that's almost 1,000$ USD


Usually the Euro price converts 1 = 1 to dollar because of tax in Europe, the price would be 680-750 $.


----------

