# [Various] Japan Nuclear Emergency - Continuous Coverage of Damage and Radiation Risks



## 8-Ball

Jesus Christ...


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## Acroma

This isn't good by any means.....


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## ABeta

The island of Japan just needs to be ditched by it's people ASAP. Relocate to Russia or some other country with large unused land.


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## d0gr0ck

Scary yes. I thought the plants that were still operational were supposed to be running at low power and one of them was doing a gas venting procedure of some kind.

The article tells of what materials detected but doesn't bother with values. I can look at my ceiling and point to the tiny amount of radioactive material.

Edit: numbers are starting to turn up


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## nikolauska

Let's just hope we don't end up with another Chernobyl...


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## GIPrice

Awesome now I get to die from it too, damn radiation.


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## 8-Ball

That map isn't going to make sleep tonight...
I live in Cali too...


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## aweir

they're not sure if it was the reactor or not.









..
.
.maybe it was the frickin bathroom? the bathroom exploded...nothing more to see move along, folks. someone ate a giant burrito.

Ok, now let's use some common sense at what it was. Hmm...cores overheating, melting.

Yep, it was the burrito!!


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## Lampen

I've been trolling Google image search and tineye.com and the map has appeared on other websites. Several people have retracted it said it was panic positing. It seems that it's just a theoretical radiation map of the worst case scenario.


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## gunhound45

where did you find that map??

it better not turn Australia (or America) into New Vegas


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## Beric

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


I've been trolling Google image search and tineye.com and the map has appeared on other websites. Several people have retracted it said it was panic positing. It seems that it's just a theoretical radiation map of the worst case scenario.


Looks great though. I'm gonna share it around to see what reactions I get.


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## GIPrice

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiati...xposure_levels

Apparently we would be getting 7.5 Sv which means death, I am pretty sure that diagram is wrong.


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## aweir

that's it I'm not sleeping tonight. this is starting to get really, really scary. this is one of the only times i ever remember a single event turning into a chain reaction of potentially globally catastrophic events.


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## xd_1771

Relax, we'd have 6-10 days to pack up and get the heck outta here if ever


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## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


they're not sure if it was the reactor or not.


NHK reporting that the entire outer structure of the containment building has been blown off.


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## d0gr0ck

The current radiation levels are 8 times background. Background is 300 millirems, Maximum adult exposure over a year is 5000 millirems. Elevated but not especially dangerous. Still no need to be in the area as a civilian though.


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## aweir

the only place to go would be Canada. Mexico would not want us. Can you imagine a giant exodus into northern Canada. that would be truly unprecedented. and the containment dome blowing off would be the worst possible case scenario which has happened.

I don't care what the experts tell us. almost every major event has been downplayed to prevent panic. Obama needs to be prepared because this might affect us. the tsunami has already destroyed harbors in California, now what??


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## XxSilent22xX

I am probably wrong but wouldn't the radiation go the other way?


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## Haphaz

Wow, this is the only time in my life I have ever felt like living in Alaska was a bad thing...


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## xd_1771

Why Canada...


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## The Mad Mule

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


the only place to go would be Canada. Mexico would not want us. Can you imagine a giant exodus into northern Canada. that would be truly unprecedented.


I'm sure they'd be expecting us.









"We knew you guys would invade us eventually. It was simply a matter of time."


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## 8-Ball

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


NHK reporting that the entire outer structure of the containment building has been blown off.


In English!?
Please!?


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## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *8-Ball*


In English!?
Please!?












The outer shell of that marked Containment. If there's a total meltdown and subsequent explosion in the actual reactor, well, guess what, there's no containment shell left to cap that.


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## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gunhound45*


where did you find that map??

it better not turn Australia (or America) into New Vegas


ROFL

Good time for me to visit my mum again in NYC.


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## 8-Ball

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*











The outer shell of that marked Containment. If there's a total meltdown and subsequent explosion in the actual reactor, well, guess what, there's no containment shell left to cap that.


So basically that's what keeps the radiation insulated?

If so...we are screwed and Japan as well if it melts down...


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## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *8-Ball*


So basically that's what keeps the radiation insulated?

If so...we are screwed and Japan as well if it melts down...


The other (lesser) issue is that if there's an actual second explosion, the collateral damage will be greater. Right now nobody really knows what exactly exploded with such force that the outer walls are gone, but I don't think we'll like the answer to that.


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## aweir

This type of nuclear facility is different (safer) from Chernobyl's but the fact is that the containment dome is gone. what does that mean!?


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## d0gr0ck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *XxSilent22xX*


I am probably wrong but wouldn't the radiation go the other way?


It's the jet-stream in effect. A meltdown explosion is capable of launching the fun stuff into the upper atmosphere.


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## HowHardCanItBe

Quote:



oses of 200 to 1000 rems will likely cause serious illness with poor outlook at the upper end of the range


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rad_%28unit%29

my god the entire western sea board is going to have to be evacuated...those exposure levels can cause serious injuries.


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## xd_1771

Looks like I'm the one in the shimmies now








Will the radiation levels
1. seriously hit Canada in the BC area first
2. have that many rems


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## aweir

we need to read up on this pronto

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Containment_building

While the containment plays a critical role in the most severe nuclear reactor accidents, it is only designed to contain or condense steam in the short term (for large break accidents) and long term heat removal still must be provided by other systems


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## 8-Ball

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


The other (lesser) issue is that if there's an actual second explosion, the collateral damage will be greater. Right now nobody really knows what exactly exploded with such force that the outer walls are gone, but I don't think we'll like the answer to that.


Wow..
So I guess we'll need an answer...

I can't sleep...


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## Ocnewb

Holy cow!! I'm in AZ and it's in the PATH







(. I think i should start packing my stuffs and visit my bro in Boston.


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## Lampen

OP updated with plant explosion videos.


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## Beric

Why can I not settle down and get back to my homework?


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## voice

You guys are overreacting. The worst that can happen will be close to Three Mile Island. *A Chernobyl-style meltdown is extremely unlikely. *


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## xd_1771

http://www.www.godlikeproductions.co...ge1389586/pg16
People say the map is fake


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## The Mad Mule

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


http://www.www.godlikeproductions.co...ge1389586/pg16
People say the map is fake


It was mentioned a page or two back that somebody drew that up as a "worst case scenario" type of deal.


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## xd_1771

We will have plenty of days of warning if ever. More than enough time for me to grab my CPU, grab my RAM, grab my video card, grab my HDDs, maybe even my mobo, and make a run for it


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## xD3aDPooLx

time to move yet again... sigh.


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## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *voice*


You guys are overreacting. The worst that can happen will be close to Three Mile Island. *A Chernobyl-style meltdown is extremely unlikely. *


Yep. A partial meltdown is rather likely at this point, but it's not going to be anything like Chernobyl.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


http://www.www.godlikeproductions.co...ge1389586/pg16
People say the map is fake


Like I said. The map should be disregarded completely at this point. I went searching throughout Australian Radiation Services and found nothing. Ideally if one of the mods could kill that map since there's no context that be great. Trying to keep information limited to CONFIRMED only at this point.


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## xd_1771

Excellent then. I have nothing to worry about.
On the other hand I now want to kill that a-hole who apparently decided that Vancouver would go first...


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## d0gr0ck

Edit: Picture was removed, post serves no purpose


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## xd_1771

Found this on SkyscraperPage, thought I'd share with you


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## Beric

I personally like the map. Even though it's unrealistic, it's fun. And fun to theorize... I've posted it on a couple other forums already. With a tiny-text disclaimer...


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## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *NinjaRicer*


That map is probably fake. And even if it is real, it's probably accounting for something along the lines of the actual reactor exploding.


Even if it is a real map something about it is clearly wrong. Chernobyl was certainly worse that this and there's no way we're going to be getting 750 rads/7.5 Sieverts in pretty much the western half of the US. That would be mean half the population would be dead. Bad, misleading map is bad and misleading.


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## Devilmaypoop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *d0gr0ck*


On the subject of the map: detonating atomic weapons in Japan did not cause a radiation release that big, how could a power plant?


Those were extremely low yield bombs. Plants can release much more radiation anyways.


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## aweir

this i don't understand...

Quote:



Analysts say a meltdown would not necessarily lead to a major disaster because light-water reactors would not explode even if they overheated.


Well then what the hell exploded and WHY?


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## xd_1771

EDIT: Oh never mind, now that it's suddenly page 6 again...


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## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


Like I said. The map should be disregarded completely at this point. I went searching throughout Australian Radiation Services and found nothing. Ideally if one of the mods could kill that map since there's no context that be great. Trying to keep information limited to CONFIRMED only at this point.


Agreed. Posts directly referencing the map have been removed. The radiation issue is being really overblown.


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## Lampen

Xd, that photo looks like the one from the oil refinery fire. No fires are currently reported at the nuclear reactor facility.

Also thank you CC for removing the map.


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## xd_1771

It's on Al Jazeera

Also those towers to the right are from the power plant vicinity. They look the same as the ones in the initial explosion vid.


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## 8-Ball

I saw an article saying that *5 units* are affected...


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## HowHardCanItBe

6:10pm

Quote:



Smoke was seen billowing from the ***ushima No. 1 atomic plant after what appeared to be an explosion. Four people were reportedly injured.












http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/asia...an-earthquake#


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## xd_1771

Units as in, individual power plants?
Maybe that article was referring to the plants that automatically shut down, and not actual damage?

Sentinel: I beat you to it


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## aweir

Quote:



Experts said any threat of widespread radiation leaks would be contained as long as the reactor's outer container is intact.


Well that's really nice to know...


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## nukefission

New stalker game?

now what?
+1 to island evacuaction


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## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *8-Ball*


I saw an article saying that *5 units* are affected...



Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


Units as in, individual power plants?
Maybe that article was referring to the plants that automatically shut down, and not actual damage?


Units as in, reactor units; the one we're following is the #1 reactor at ***ushima Daiichi; another reactor at Daiichi is close to overheating, and 3 reactors at ***ushima Daini are experiencing a rise in temperature and loss of control of pressure. Thus, 5 units affected.


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## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


It's on Al Jazeera

Also those towers to the right are from the power plant vicinity. They look the same as the ones in the initial explosion vid.


Strange I've been watching about 5 live feeds covering the site and none of them are showing a fire or plume like that.


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## 8-Ball

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


Units as in, individual power plants?
Maybe that article was referring to the plants that automatically shut down, and not actual damage?

Sentinel: I beat you to it


2 Power Plants.

5 Reactors affected within the 2 Power Plants.

Only 5, not 10.

Just clearing it up.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_japan_quake_power_plant


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## TFL Replica

Everyone too busy worrying about an unlikely (and lesser if existent) risk to themselves to see the real victims. Check.


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## Lampen

BBC news map with PM in front of it is A FAKE. I've been watching BBC for hours and not seen anything even remotely like that come up.

Live BBC Feed on Reactor: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698


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## Chunky_Chimp

Posts with references to the newer pic removed. Trying to keep things factual here.


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## xd_1771

Quote:



6:37pm

TEPCO, the operator of the ***ushima plant, says the blast there happened during an aftershock to Friday's quake.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said the government is taking contingency measures and collecting iodine, with can be used against radiation sickness, as officials said they have detected eight times the normal radiation levels outside the facility.


Al Jazeera


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## Lampen

Last pic with PM was shopped with him from an earlier press conference immediately following the earthquake. Please ignore them as CC has said.


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## aweir

some good news...

Quote:



Light water reactors do not have flammable cores or moderators and are not subject to core fires.


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## Johnny Guitar

They need to place a sarcophagus over that reactor immeditaly to prevent more radiation from leaking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_sarcophagus

also:


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## xd_1771

So definitely no fireball explosions
We just have to worry if the containment building is safe or not
Excellent


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## Johnny Guitar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


So definitely no fireball explosions
We just have to worry if the containment building is safe or not
Excellent


hold me


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## xd_1771

They're explaining on BBC how the reactor cooling works
It is no different than PC water cooling it seems, just I don't think you have to worry as much about leaks since the pipes are likely stronger
What basically happened is the pump stopped


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## Johnny Guitar

If this actually affects Canada, what do?


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## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Johnny Guitar*


They need to place a sarcophagus over that reactor immeditaly to prevent more radiation from leaking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_sarcophagus


Yeah a bit extreme at this point as this is nothing like Chernobyl. We don't even know if the reactor's pressure vessel has been compromised.


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## Chunky_Chimp

This is not the time or place for cooling jokes; it's in very poor taste to make light of the situation as whatever occurs as a result of this incident could determine what direction Japan heads for nuclear power.


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## Johnny Guitar

Lampen said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Johnny Guitar*
> 
> 
> They need to place a sarcophagus over that reactor immeditaly to prevent more radiation from leaking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_sarcophagus
> 
> Yeah a bit extreme at this point as this is nothing like Chernobyl. We don't even know if the reactor vessel has been compromised.
> 
> 
> probably is but not completely compromised


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## d0gr0ck

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


They're explaining on BBC how the reactor cooling works
It is no different than PC water cooling it seems, just I don't think you have to worry as much about leaks since the pipes are likely stronger
What basically happened is the pump stopped


http://www.euronuclear.org/info/energy-uses.htm

At the bottom of the page there's a quick diagram of how the cooling system works for those wondering. This makes this likely a steam explosion.


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## xd_1771

White smoke.... Seems likely that this was a steam explosion.
Which probably means it has something to do with the cooling system.
Which, by extension, would affect the reactor core itself.


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## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *d0gr0ck*


http://www.euronuclear.org/info/energy-uses.htm

At the bottom of the page there's a quick diagram of how the cooling system works for those wondering. This makes this likely a steam explosion.


Looking at the videos of the explosion it does look like a steam explosion is the most likely cause of the collapse. It occurred during/shortly after a strong aftershock so I wonder what was damaged to cause all this.


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## Chunky_Chimp

They were trying to release some pressure at the time of the explosion, so yes, I'm also hedging on it being a steam explosion.


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## Beric

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


They were trying to release some pressure at the time of the explosion, so yes, I'm also hedging on it being a steam explosion.


I think we can agree on that. The main question is whether steam was the _only_ thing that got out.


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## kurt1288

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


This is not the time or place for cooling jokes; it's in very poor taste to make light of the situation as whatever occurs as a result of this incident could determine what direction Japan heads for nuclear power.


Not just Japan, but the developed world. Nuclear power, in my opinion, is a good option and incidents like this are not helping move it forward.

Seems a lot of what I'm reading has been downplaying the explosion at this point, so hopefully that's an indication.


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## Wolfchild

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Beric*


I think we can agree on that. The main question is whether steam was the _only_ thing that got out.



The bbc stream just showed the japanese government confirming a radiation leak. not a video or something, but on the scrolling text bulletin on the bottom.

So i don't think steam's the only thing that got out.


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## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


They were trying to release some pressure at the time of the explosion, so yes, I'm also hedging on it being a steam explosion.


Last I saw the #1 reactor had a pressure level of 1.5 times above normal. Looks like another possible explanation is a hydrogen explosion which was suggested by Walt Patterson of Chatham House.

Quote:



The bbc stream just showed the japanese government confirming a radiation leak. not a video or something, but on the scrolling text bulletin on the bottom.

So i don't think steam's the only thing that got out.


If anything got out it would probably be Iodine-131 and Cesium-137 from what people are saying that the moment. However the reactor is modified to filter releases of steam so the risk of significant amounts of either isotope being released is very low at this point.


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## .:hybrid:.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kurt1288*


Not just Japan, but the developed world. Nuclear power, in my opinion, is a good option and incidents like this are not helping move it forward.


I'm also a supporter of nuclear power, but in light of these events I wouldn't be so quick to build one in an earthquake prone zone :/


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## Skylit

Quote:



The BBC's environment correspondent Roger Harrabin says he understands the blast at the nuclear plant may have been caused by a hydrogen explosion - also one of the possibilities laid out by Walt Patterson of Chatham House. "If nuclear fuel rods overheat and then come into contact with water, this produces a large amount of highly-flammable hydrogen gas which can then ignite," our correspondent says.


Scary D:


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## Decade

Delete post. Skylit quoted what I was posting.


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## Beric

Quote:



Originally Posted by *.:hybrid:.*


I'm also a supporter of nuclear power, but in light of these events I wouldn't be so quick to build one in an earthquake prone zone :/


They just said on the BBC stream that current technology can deal with this no problem, but that the issue is dealing with the plants already built.


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## Siigari

Okay I know a bit about nuclear reactors. With the containment building currently compromised, what are the chances to get in there and dump the rods? With background radiation at still nominal levels, is there a chance to get in and turn off stuff before something compounds the problem?


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## Chunky_Chimp

Now hearing from NHK that the 4 workers injured by the explosion have died from their injuries; no confirmation yet.


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## d0gr0ck

If you've ever seen a hunk of potassium dropped in water you know that stuff is violent. If Caesium is being produced around water... well... that would go bang in grand style.


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## BKsMassive

This power plant was build in the late 60's! and its still running!
What do they expect if they still have nuclear power plants that are over 40 years old.


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## Beric

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Now hearing from NHK that the 4 workers injured by the explosion have died from their injuries; no confirmation yet.


That would be terrible. I had heard previously that they had made it... I guess we can only wait and see.


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## Lampen

OP update -

*Japanese authorities are extending the evacuation zone around the two ***ushima nuclear plants from 10km to 20km, according to local media.*


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## aweir

I would say that the explosion was the 6th and final stage of the core meltdown because soucses say it was a hydrogen explosion... 
I just closed the link >









Corium) Relocation to the lower plenum. "In scenarios of small-break LOCAs, there is generally. a pool of water in the lower plenum of the vessel at the time of core relocation. Release of molten core materials into water always generates large amounts of steam. If the molten stream of core materials breaks up rapidly in water, there is also a possibility of a steam explosion. During relocation, any unoxidized zirconium in the molten material may also be oxidized by steam, and in the process hydrogen is produced. Recriticality also may be a concern if the control materials are left behind in the core and the relocated material breaks up in unborated water in the lower plenum.


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## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


This is not the time or place for cooling jokes; it's in very poor taste to make light of the situation as whatever occurs as a result of this incident could determine what direction Japan heads for nuclear power.


Not to mention economic outcome that this will definitely affect. All those made in Japan keyboards will be even harder to find now!

Man such bad news. I hope the world steps up and helps out.


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## aweir

I found it ...

#
1016: The BBC's environment correspondent Roger Harrabin says he understands the blast at the nuclear plant may have been caused by a hydrogen explosion - also one of the possibilities laid out by Walt Patterson of Chatham House. "If nuclear fuel rods overheat and then come into contact with water, this produces a large amount of highly-flammable hydrogen gas which can then ignite," our correspondent says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698


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## Villosa

Thanks for everyone supplying the news updates. It's hard enough to keep up with multiple sources so an active thread, with reliable and accurate info, is extremely helpful.

Thanks!


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## Lampen

Multiple news sites reporting that 2 to 4 of the four workers injured in the explosion have died.


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## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


Multiple news sites reporting that 2 to 4 of the four workers injured in the explosion have died.


Well, that's basically verified what I (and the NHK) said, then, unless they're simply repeating what the NHK said.


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## yellowtoblerone

Well, it'd be funny if they were all quoting from the same source, from each other.


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## aweir

they are saying the *ceiling of the reactor* collapsed.


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## Beric

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Well, it'd be funny if they were all quoting from the same source, from each other.


I wouldn't be surprised.

News is so scarce right now.


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## jjjc_93

What countries does this stand to threaten if it goes into a meltdown? I assumed a nuclear meltdown only affected the immediate area, but as I understand it this could be a big problem to the entire world?


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## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


they are saying the *ceiling of the reactor* collapsed.


More specific source? So far all we've heard is the outer walls and roof of the containment facility were blown off.


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## aweir

BBC news live reporter. you have to watch the live feeds B/C news articles have a delay.


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## Lampen

I think they were just talking about the building that we saw collapse earlier.

Edit: Just saw it on BBC. They are talking about the ceiling of the reactor itself collapsing. No confirmation as of yet.


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## aweir

the buildup of hydrogen caused the explosion and ceiling of reactor to collapse, that's what they're are speculating. If you don't believe me watch the damn BBC news feed.










sorry for being mad.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698


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## kurt1288

Ya BBC says that it's possible and that they're hearing reports from the prefecture that it just collapsed (they're saying with that that it's not confirmed). But looking at the video, it really looks like something explodes.


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## SmokinWaffle

The BBC also just said that the evac zone has been increased to 30km, and that they got stopped by a Police roadblock 60km away, and were allowed no further.


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## Lampen

Japanese Nuclear Agency reports serious damage to reactor container at nuclear plant unlikely.

Let's hope that's true.

BBC environment correspondent Roger Harrabin says local officials believe the release of radiation following the nuclear plant explosion is likely to be small.


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## alltoasters

Two things could happen, it could be like three mile island and the reactor vessel remains intact, holding most of the radiation in (best case scenario), Or it will be like Chernobyl and the lid will blow off, leaking the contents of the pressure vessel everywhere.


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## Sharaktengu

Latest from from my TV in Nagoya, A person related to the attempts to cool the reactor has stated that according to the radiation levels right after the explosion the reactor is still fine.

My best attempt at translating.


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## Sharaktengu

They are being very skeptical about the statement


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## aweir

Once the pressure is released from the containment dome explosion, there is radiation leakage, but less chance of actual core explosion resulting in mass release.


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## Lampen

Commentators, local and central government officials say that the nuclear fuel is still within the reactor vessel and it is unlikely that a breach will occur given the earlier release of pressure.


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## squall325

I really thought that nuclear power plants explode like the ones in Red Alert. Good thing its just like that. I pray that there will be no widespread radiation leak. I don't want Chernobyl to happen again.


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## aweir

but remember there are 5 reactors that have coolant failures, this is just ONE.


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## nikolauska

Our local news media just posted that the authorities have confirmed radioactive leak from the nuclear plant.


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## Lampen

Neil McKeown in Nakameguro, Tokyo writes: "The evacuation zone has been extended to 20km by the government. However TepCo [the Tokyo Electric Power Company] appeared in a news conference and promised to release new radioactivity readings after 6pm. It is now 7.30pm and they have not done so. People are getting extremely frustrated at the lack of news coming from TepCo and the government - they have yet to confirm if the building that suffered an explosion housed a reactor, and we have no indication how much radiation has been released or in what direction winds are blowing."


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## aweir

Serious damage unlikely however..
Quote:


> In boiling water reactors (such as the one at ***ushima), explosions are caused by an uncontrolled build up of heat in the reactor which can result in hydrogen being produced, which is of course is explosive.


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## Sharaktengu

Ok, the hyper rescue team or whatever it's really called recieved orders to stop their efforts to do whatever to the reactor and return.


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## aweir

Because If the core exploded the radiation would be deadly in the immediate area, so this explains why they have been orded to stop>???

they say the vessel has not been breached..


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## Lampen

Japan's Kyodo news is also reporting that the four people injured in the nuclear plant explosion are conscious and their injuries are not life-threatening.


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## Blameless

Level of fear and panic in this thread is a bit overboard.


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## rocstar96

Damn this is scary


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## Lampen

The earlier posts were when people posted up that fake map. It's much better now.


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## fashric

Quote:



Level of fear and panic in this thread is a bit overboard.


Agreed. Your thoughts should be with the people actually affected by this not yourself sitting safely thousands of miles away in front of your monitor panicking just for the sake of it.


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## SomeDooD

Damn nuclear power plant, you scary!

Srsly though, it seems like its all good so far.


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## McReary

Radiation...


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## Chunky_Chimp

NHK briefly reported a meltdown in the reactor... no details or confirmation yet, could be false like the worker deaths.


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## Blameless

This is really crapping up my energy stocks.


----------



## Sharaktengu

I dunno what's true and what's false anymore, and I'm scared. The problem imo( as in not declared by other people) is that the electric company is trying to solve it on its own and the government can't do anything about it.


----------



## Darkwaddi

wheres superman when you need him?


----------



## AtomicFrost

From what I have heard it sounds like there is a small breach in the containment dome. The news is reporting that they have detected small amounts of cesium and iodine in the air around the plant. Both of which should have been contained in the containment dome.

However, at this point it appears that both plants are mostly ok. They are asking the Ground Self-Defense Force to provide a large amount of additional water to cool the core. Hopefully they can cool it down in time.

EDIT: An expert on CNN just stated that due to the cesium and iodine that was released, it means that one of the rods is probably melting . . .


----------



## molino

can you link me the cnn stream atomic?


----------



## Floy

From a German live text feed:

"Die japanische AtomaufsichtsbehÃ¶rde hat offiziell bestÃ¤tigt, dass es im beschÃ¤digten Atomkraftwerk ***ushima 1 eine Kernschmelze gegeben hat."

The translation:

*"The Japanse Nuclear Agency has officially confirmed, that a meltdown has occurred in the damaged plant ***ushima 1"*

http://www.tagesschau.de/nachrichtenticker/

Please let this be a false piece of news...


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Oh snap.


----------



## Floy

Can anyone else access the JAEA website?

http://www.jaea.go.jp/english/index.shtml


----------



## AtomicFrost

Quote:



Originally Posted by *molino*


can you link me the cnn stream atomic?


I will see if I can find a link to it. They had him call in live on CNN. I believe that he was from Carnegie Mellon.

EDIT: Here is a live stream to some news:http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/l...tream/3&hpt=T1

Just click no when they ask you to install some player. It will still work.

Unfortunately I can't find a direct like to the experts quote, but on their main page they are saying: 
Quote:



The agency said there was a strong possibility that this was caused by the melting of a fuel rod, adding that plant engineers were continuing to cool the fuel rods by pumping water around the rods.


http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/12...uction/?hpt=T1


----------



## aweir

Once the core has melted what's the sense of trying to cool it anymore? Now they should fly in the helicopters and dump layers of concrete on it to seal it.


----------



## Darkwaddi

"Government spokesman says the nuclear reactor container at the ***ushima-Daiichi plant has not been damaged, and the level of radiation has dropped following the explosion earlier on Saturday, AFP reports"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698


----------



## Diabolical999

"***ushima?" A little irony in the name much?


----------



## XiCynx

1050 micro cevert from a lady on CNN.con live stream

she said that is quite high...


----------



## aweir

Don't know who or what to believe. you think with an explosion like that it would have damaged the reactor. Were talking about a hydrogen explosion here.


----------



## Floy

Same here, there is so much contradicting information.

All we can is hope for the best...


----------



## xXjay247Xx

Don't listen to BCC news, they tried to send people close to the plant to get information but got stopped, so they dont have any information on it at all, only the information when the explosion happened.


----------



## AtomicFrost

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


Don't know who or what to believe. you think with an explosion like that it would have damaged the reactor. Were talking about a hydrogen explosion here.


Right, and due to the radioactive elements that were detected, the containment dome must have been slightly breached. Either that or it is now in the steam that they are having to vent.


----------



## TFL Replica

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Diabolical999*


"***ushima?" A little irony in the name much?


If this wasn't serious I'd be laughing.


----------



## aweir

The container has not been affected. Heat and pressure are decreasing. HArd to believe at this point...


----------



## SmokinWaffle

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


The container has not been affected. Heat and pressure are decreasing. HArd to believe at this point...


Source?


----------



## xXjay247Xx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle*


Source?


It was just reported on BBC news, according to them the jab gov told them.


----------



## aweir

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle*


Source?


.....BBC news live feed. but now it's on a video feed loop









they are saying it might just have been steam.


----------



## Fusion Racing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blameless*


Level of fear and panic in this thread is a bit overboard.


I'd have to agree, despite it being an old reactor its not cheaply made and badly designed like Chernobyl was. They're also a hell of a lot better prepared for something like that too.

What I'm hoping is that everyone continues to use nuclear power than suddenly thinking it must be stopped.

I'll just wait until they confirm things properly rather than some mindless speculation by news sources.


----------



## AtomicFrost

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fusion Racing*


I'd have to agree, despite it being an old reactor its not cheaply made and badly designed like Chernobyl was. They're also a hell of a lot better prepared for something like that too.

* What I'm hoping is that everyone continues to use nuclear power than suddenly thinking it must be stopped.*

I'll just wait until they confirm things properly rather than some mindless speculation by news sources.


This. Especially if both plants survive this ordeal. It would show that even a plat built 40 years ago can survive the "perfect storm."

Off Topic: Earth quake moved Japan 8ft and shifted earths axis 4in!
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...rth/index.html


----------



## aweir

well. it's the only info we have.Fox/cnn still say meltdown is possible but BBC confirmed it already happened.


----------



## XiCynx

4 million houses without power, fffufuuuuuuu

Why watch BBC when CNN seem to be so much more reliable as of right now?

CNN just confirmed it as well about 10 seconds ago, they are going over it now


----------



## jprovido

what does a meltdown do?


----------



## XiCynx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jprovido*


what does a meltdown do?


----------



## jprovido

^ so cool but scary at the same time. go japan!


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:



IWAKI, Japan - Japanese authorities confirmed Saturday that radiation had leaked from a quake-hit nuclear plant after an explosion destroyed a building at the site.

Following an explosion at the ***ushima nuclear power plant there are growing fears of a nuclear meltdown NBC's Anne Thompson reports.

The blast at the ***ushima Daiichi nuclear facility occurred just hours after officials said they feared the reactor could melt down.

Footage on Japanese TV showed that the walls of one building had crumbled, leaving only a skeletal metal frame standing. Its roof had also been blown off. Plumes of smoke spewed out of the plant, 20 miles from Iwaki.

Four workers were injured by the blast at ***ushima Unit 1, officials said.
There were conflicting reports about whether or not the damaged building housed the reactor.

The evacuation zone was doubled in size from 6 miles to 12 miles, Japanese broadcaster NHK reported.


source


----------



## Fusion Racing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jprovido*


what does a meltdown do?


Runaway reaction inside the power station. Usually generates excess heat which in Chernobyl's case built up enough steam pressure to blow the top of the reactor clean off.

Generally you don't want a meltdown.


----------



## dafour

http://yokosonews.com/live


----------



## XiCynx

Explosion at nuclear plant

http://www.weatherservice.be/


----------



## TSXmike

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AtomicFrost*


Off Topic: Earth quake moved Japan 8ft and shifted earths axis 4in!
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...rth/index.html



whoa...


----------



## Devilmaypoop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *†Blade†*


Explosion at nuclear plant

http://www.weatherservice.be/


You're kind of late.


----------



## NrGx

Poor Japanese people. It's always very risky living so close to not 2 but 4 plates. Luckily, their infrastructure is very well suited to earthquakes but 8.9 is brutally powerful.

I hope Australia digs deep and gives aid. We know Japan is affluent but honestly, this will rock their economy. I predict a GDP fall of around 5% from the outset and they probably will need to have some fiscal strategy to overcome that.

I guess the one positive is that the entire issue won't be turned into a political escapade from a climate change perspective.


----------



## Blameless

I haven't heard anything that suggested meltdown.

One of the containment buildings looks like it was badly damaged, but with the reactor shut down, there should be very little risk of a substantial leak or meltdown. Obviously some radiation will escape, due to them venting to prevent another explosion, but this is not a big deal in the great scheme of things, not remotely near a Chernobyl type situation.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jprovido*


what does a meltdown do?


It's when the fuel in a reactor, deprived of coolant and not sufficiently controlled by it's control rods, melts itself.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *†Blade†*












No, not even remotely close.

A nuclear explosion is physically impossible in a reactor. The fuel is not enriched anywhere near enough.


----------



## Hatakescreams

what do you guys think about the green peace guy who just said the core is half open, i dont know much about nuclear power


----------



## XiCynx

Might be to soon, but just a little somethin' to lighten up the situation a bit.

http://tinyurl.com/is-it-to-soon

Live stream casting with people asking questions... interesting to listen to in between recast

http://yokosonews.com/live


----------



## AtomicFrost

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hatakescreams*


what do you guys think about the green peace guy who just said the core is half open, i dont know much about nuclear power


I presume that he is at the power station peering into the fiery depths of the exposed fuel rods . . right.









At this point there is no way the containment dome is half melted. If it was we would be reading about it. Green Peace has always been anti-nuclear, and I presume that they are frothing at the mouth thinking about an incident like this that they can make into a total nuclear disaster.


----------



## Hatakescreams

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AtomicFrost*


I presume that he is at the power station peering into the fiery depths of the exposed fuel rods . . right.









At this point there is no way it is half open. If it was we would be reading about it.


Well i hope so, i was wondering how he knew the core was half open


----------



## Blameless

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hatakescreams*


what do you guys think about the green peace guy who just said the core is half open, i dont know much about nuclear power


Greenpeace has a guy close enough to see the core itself?

I suspect he's either full of crap, or was misquoting someone.


----------



## amorph

So what about a SCRAM?


----------



## Blameless

Quote:



Originally Posted by *amurph0*


So what about a SCRAM?


I'd be amazed if this hadn't already happened.

Haven't heard any official word though.


----------



## oventek

A scram is an emergency shutdown of a reactor. Sometimes the terminology used in nuclear power is odd. A "critical" reactor is one that is running normally. In this case all of the reactor have already been shut down.


----------



## Boyboyd

They claim it was a buildup of pressurized hydrogen mixing with oxygen. Atm most news is just speculation though.


----------



## XiCynx

AFTERSHOCK earthquake M 4.9, off the east coast of Honshu, Japan Depth: 24.70 km Mar 12 12:50:28 2011 UTC

3 of them within the past 10 minutes.


----------



## Rising

More news:

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/12...d-destruction/


----------



## AtomicFrost

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Rising*


More news:

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/12...d-destruction/


This doesn't sound good. 
Quote:



*[8:30 a.m. ET, 10:30 p.m. Tokyo] *Japanese authorities are making plans to distribute stable iodine, a treatment to prevent radiation poisoning, to residents near two damaged nuclear plants, the International Atomic Energy Agency says.










They must know something we don't know.


----------



## Floy

Quote:



1330: A magnitude 6 earthquake hit ***ushima at 2215 (1315GMT) on Saturday, Japan's NHK reports.


So, 20 minutes ago.

From BBC live text.


----------



## Pendulum

 the Japanese are just having a rough day...


----------



## Boyboyd

I can't believe the main quake moved the whole country 8'!!!


----------



## Rising

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AtomicFrost*


This doesn't sound good.








They must know something we don't know.


Could just be a "just in case" scenario. Some radiation did leak, did it not? Could be because of that. I prefer not to think of the worst.


----------



## AtomicFrost

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Rising*


Could just be a "just in case" scenario. Some radiation did leak, did it not? Could be because of that. I prefer not to think of the worst.


I hope it's a JIC.

LOL at CNN calling the iodine "a radiation antidote".


----------



## Playapplepie

After I read the article about this on yahoo, it sounds like the containment building collapsed, and that is just dust from the collapse,


----------



## Floy

The Japanese PM just said that there has been a new development at ***ushima. He also said there will be information about this in a bit.


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boyboyd;12703649*
> I can't believe the main quake moved the whole country 8'!!!


if you know anything about the pacific plate you know it moves every year, this quake just speeded that movement up.


----------



## gerikoh

Good god!









I really wish all my folks there are all right.


----------



## Rising

Cnn:
Quote:


> the walls of a concrete building surrounding the reactor container at the ***ushima daiichi nuclear plant collapsed in an explosion, but the reactor and its containment system were not damaged, chief cabinet secretary yukio edano said.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

japan is screwed right now & it sucks. now that the nuclear power plant has exploded this is even more serious.


----------



## Hatakescreams

we should all put to an buy the whole ocn a ticket to japan an help xd

is there no way to detect earthquak/tsunami coming, was japan even prepared for this?


----------



## Dirkonis

I am amazed, almost speechless about what is happening over there. Hope everyone makes it alright and they get that reactor under control.


----------



## Zen00

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nikolauska;12702305*
> Let's just hope we don't end up with another Chernobyl...


We won't. The reason Chernobyl was such a disaster was because they weren't running their plant with proper security in place (the had actually turned off the core cooling and other stuff to run unauthorized experiments) and safety has been dramatically increased since then as well. I would expect that at most, they would collapse the structure in on itself and that would be that, no need for the concrete and such like before, they only needed that because of the explosion to cover the radioactive material. If proper procedure is followed, this will hopefully demonstrate to the public how safe nuclear energy is in all reality today.


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hatakescreams;12703829*
> we should all put to an buy the whole ocn a ticket to japan an help xd
> 
> is there no way to detect earthquake/tsunami coming, was japan even prepared for this?


sure you can detect a tsunami but when they move at 500mph and it started 80 miles off the coast there is mere seconds to warn people, nobody was warned, no time to do it.

and no there is no way and never will be a way to detect an earthquake.


----------



## Zen00

Here's some more interesting tidbits, as far as it goes for now.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=radiation-leaking-from-nuclear-plant


----------



## 4LC4PON3

if japan was prepared for this then there would not have been thousands of lives lost they would of evacuated early. Japan is in the worse spot in the world but thye continue to build & expand.

When will they realize that where they are located isnt worth it.


----------



## Hatakescreams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12703874*
> sure you can detect a tsunami but when they move at 500mph and it started 80 miles off the coast there is mere seconds to warn people, nobody was warned, no time to do it.
> 
> and no there is no way and never will be a way to detect an earthquake.


didnt think so, an i was more or less thinking about the earthquake, as that cause the tsunami, is there litterly no way to even estimate, by maybe tracking the tectonic plates, am not a geologist or anything (as you will guess from my bad spelling) what is the reason we cant predict earthquakes
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4LC4PON3;12703891*
> if japan was prepared for this then there would not have been thousands of lives lost they would of evacuated early. Japan is in the worse spot in the world but thye continue to build & expand.
> 
> When will they realize that where they are located isnt worth it.


TBH i would not move if my countries heritage was in a land sorrounded by earthquakes an i was just asking


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hatakescreams;12703893*
> didnt think so, an i was more or less thinking about the earthquake, as that cause the tsunami, is there litterly no way to even estimate, by maybe tracking the tectonic plates, am not a geologist or anything (as you will guess from my bad spelling) what is the reason we cant predict earthquakes


We can tell that there is stress on a plate but when it comes to geology it can centuries for that stress to break, we can say that there will be a 9.0+ earthquake on the San Andreas Fault in the next 50 years but we can't tell when it will happen beyond that. and even that is a very rough estimate, they have been saying that the New Madrid Fault line in the central US is ready to pop for 20 years and still nothing.


----------



## Hatakescreams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12703922*
> We can tell that there is stress on a plate but when it comes to geology it can centuries for that stress to break, we can say that there will be a 9.0+ earthquake on the San Andreas Fault in the next 50 years but we can't tell when it will happen beyond that. and even that is a very rough estimate, they have been saying that the New Madrid Fault line in the central US is ready to pop for 20 years and still nothing.


Well from what i have read japan did a good building there buildings so +Rep to japan for trying xD, as for the US, i hope you guys have plans, although we have rain most days of the week this kind of stuff kinda makes me glad i live in Manchester


----------



## Toransu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4LC4PON3;12703891*
> if japan was prepared for this then there would not have been thousands of lives lost they would of evacuated early. Japan is in the worse spot in the world but thye continue to build & expand.
> 
> When will they realize that where they are located isnt worth it.


They love their own land too much just to let it go just for safety. Call it naive, but as technologically advanced Japan is, there's a reason they still observe festivals and keep their shrines whole.

Also, considering what has happened, they have been very well-prepared and responsive to the disaster. It could have well been thousands dead in the first hours. If this kind of thing were to happen here where I am (Philippines), you will be fishing my corpse out of the Indian Ocean amidst what used to be bits of Manila. (hope that doesn't discourage xd, though)


----------



## james_ant

The BBC reporter says "its very difficult to find people who speak English." Well ya your in japan, why didn't you bring a translator with you. Or send a reporter who actually speaks the language of the country your in.


----------



## Rowey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nikolauska;12702305*
> Let's just hope we don't end up with another Chernobyl...


Looks like we already got one on our hands. Feel so bad for japan to bit hit like this without any notice.


----------



## amorph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4LC4PON3;12703891*
> if japan was prepared for this then there would not have been thousands of lives lost they would of evacuated early. Japan is in the worse spot in the world but thye continue to build & expand.
> 
> When will they realize that where they are located isnt worth it.


Japan was as prepared as much as they could possibly have been. If they weren't then there would be FAR more people dead.

Take the earthquake in the Indian ocean a few years ago. That earthquake was around the same size as this one but the wave it caused hit poorer countries that were unprepared and hundreds of thousands of people died.

The earthquake in Haiti is another example. This earthquake was far more powerful then that one yet a lot more people were killed in Haiti because they were unprepared.

The Japanese are probably better prepared for this kind of situation then any other country, they have the best earthquake resistant buildings and tsunami defences in the world.


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amurph0;12704016*
> Japan was as prepared as much as they could possibly have been. If they weren't then there would be FAR more people dead.
> 
> Take the earthquake in the Indian ocean a few years ago. That earthquake was around the same size as this one but the wave it caused hit poorer countries that were unprepared and hundreds of thousands of people died.
> 
> The earthquake in Haiti is another example. This earthquake was far more powerful then that one yet a lot more people were killed in Haiti because they were unprepared.
> 
> The Japanese are probably better prepared for this kind of situation then any other country, they have the best earthquake resistant buildings and tsunami defences in the world.


Actually the indian ocean earthquake was slightly bigger, it was a 9.1, this was a 9.0


----------



## Floy

NEWS ADVISORY: 3 evacuees from area near ***ushima nuke plant exposed to radiation

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/

This is from Kyodo...









EDIT:
BBC as well:
Quote:


> 1459: At least three residents evacuated from a town near quake-hit ***ushima No. 1 plant have been exposed to radiation, both Kyodo and NHK report


----------



## Boyboyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12703702*
> if you know anything about the pacific plate you know it moves every year, this quake just speeded that movement up.


Yeah it moves something like 92mm per year. It moved 8m in a few minutes.


----------



## amorph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12704042*
> Actually the indian ocean earthquake was slightly bigger, it was a 9.1, this was a 9.0


Thats why i said "around the same size".

I would call 9.0 and 9.1 to be around the same size.


----------



## _GTech

This is precisely why I'm against nuclear power, because earthquakes and other acts of Nature are something you can't control, no matter how well you have safeguarded the process...


----------



## r4zr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12703874*
> and no there is no way and never will be a way to detect an earthquake.


Detection in advance of arrival is, and was used in Japan. The southern regions had over a minute's notice because of an alert system set up: areas right near to the epicenter sent out an emergency warning through a special system they have.


----------



## Lampen

CNN reports another 6.4 magnitude aftershock stuck near the ***ushima Nuclear Facility.


----------



## amorph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_GTech;12704230*
> This is precisely why I'm against nuclear power, because earthquakes and other acts of Nature are something you can't control, no matter how well you have safeguarded the process...


That plant was built in the 60's. There is a huge difference between the technology in that plant and current nuclear power technologies.

If a natural disaster occurred that was large enough to cause a meltdown in a modern power plant then the meltdown would be the least of you're problems.

In reality a modern nuclear power plant using current day technologies and proper waste disposal is one of the safest, efficient and most environmentally friendly sources of energy.

The problem is with old obsolete power plants, not nuclear power itself.


----------



## Argorn5757

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amurph0;12704277*
> That plant was built in the 60's. There is a huge difference between the technology in that plant and current nuclear power technologies.
> 
> If a natural disaster occurred that was large enough to cause a meltdown in a modern power plant then the meltdown would be the least of you're problems.
> 
> In reality a modern nuclear power plant using current day technologies and proper waste disposal is one of the safest, efficient and most environmentally friendly sources of energy.
> 
> *The problem is with old obsolete power plants, not nuclear power itself.*


even so, considering how old this Japanese reactor is it is handling it remarkably well. if this had happened to any of the old soviet RBMKs there would be no more russia.


----------



## amorph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Argorn5757;12704402*
> even so, considering how old this Japanese reactor is it is handling it remarkably well. if this had happened to any of the old soviet RBMKs there would be no more russia.


Exactly my point.

Considering the fact that this 40 year old plant, using obsolete technology, is actually holding up pretty well, despite the fact that it was near to the epicentre of an incredibly large earthquake with many aftershocks in the 5.0-6.0 range, would actually reinforce the fact that modern nuclear power is safe.


----------



## Argorn5757

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amurph0;12704432*
> Exactly my point.
> 
> Considering the fact that this 40 year old plant, using obsolete technology, is actually holding up pretty well, despite the fact that it was near to the epicentre an incredibly large earthquake with many aftershocks in the 5.0-6.0 range, would actually reinforce the fact that *modern nuclear power is safe*.


I 100% agree. With the safeguards we have today nuclear power is perfectly safe and the 3rd cleanest form of energy available. (besides the rods, but we have ways to deal with those). The worse nuclear accident in American history, at Three Mile Island, caused no deaths or injuries; the radiation dose for people within 10 miles of the plant was 8 millirem (equal to one chest X-Ray) with no person receiving more then 100 millirem (1/3 of what you get naturally in a year).


----------



## Ikon

If you want to find something positive out of this, ***ushima I-1 is a relatively small reactor.

There is no going to reactor hall now, but apparently the containment is still intact.
It's a mess of news so everyone is busy at work.

Apparently some fuel did expose and melt causing higher radiation levels around the plant (1 mSv/h outside), but they got the water level to rise again.


----------



## Boyboyd

Apparently they're using sea water to cool it now. But like Ikon said, it's just a mess of news.


----------



## Hatakescreams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boyboyd;12704577*
> Apparently they're using sea water to cool it now. But like Ikon said, it's just a mess of news.


have they actually started using the sea water, would this not ruin the reactor, i heard it was just a plan


----------



## Rising

CNN said it would take a period of two days, but it looks like they are going to do it


----------



## Hatakescreams

R.I.P. ***ushima I-1


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless;12703502*
> Greenpeace has a guy close enough to see the core itself?
> 
> I suspect he's either full of crap, or was misquoting someone.


or missing their face


----------



## Lampen

OP updated:

Edit 1631 GMT: Japan nuclear agency rates nuclear plant accident in ***ushima at 4 on 0-7 international scale. More information on that figure: The 1986 Chernobyl disaster was rated 7 on the International Nuclear Event Scale; the 1979 Three Mile Island accident was rated 5. The rating of 4 for the ***ushima plant incident comes from an as yet unidentified official at Japan's nuclear safety agency, news wires report.

Edit 1651 GMT: Japanese government confirms that military and civilian units specializing in decontamination have arrived in the exclusion zone. Government also confirms that emergency backup plan to cool the reactor using sea water is underway. The operation is expected to take 36 to 48 hours.


----------



## EvanPitts

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Argorn5757;12704402*
> even so, considering how old this Japanese reactor is it is handling it remarkably well. if this had happened to any of the old soviet RBMKs there would be no more russia.


However, Chornobyl didn't fail because of any regular usage, but rather, that they disabled all of the safety systems and drove the reactor to 150% in a "test". Of course, with a postive temprature coefficient reactor, it went up once the reaction got carried away and the graphite blocks caught fire. RBMK reactors, properly operated with safety systems in place, have actually been operated safely for decades.

The Japanese reactors would have had many significant upgrades, and they were working on four reactors on that site. The reactor didn't fail, but rather, the backup diesel generators that power the cooling pumps in an emergency failed after the tsunami, and the delay was only because they have backup batteries that ran out of charge 8 hours in.

This is remarkable safety and design, considering that the natural gas power plant in Connecticut a few years ago went up like crazy and killed all kinds of people...


----------



## qwertymac93

hmm, I'm not too worried, just because the containment was destroyed, doesn't mean the plant is 10 minutes to melt down. also, i think the "maximum allowed radiation" is a bit lower then what a full grown adult can really handle, small children might have problems though, IF the levels they are quoting actually reach us, that is...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EvanPitts;12705106*
> However, Chornobyl didn't fail because of any regular usage, but rather, that they disabled all of the safety systems and drove the reactor to 150% in a "test". Of course, with a postive temprature coefficient reactor, it went up once the reaction got carried away and the graphite blocks caught fire. RBMK reactors, properly operated with safety systems in place, have actually been operated safely for decades.
> 
> The Japanese reactors would have had many significant upgrades, and they were working on four reactors on that site. The reactor didn't fail, but rather, the backup diesel generators that power the cooling pumps in an emergency failed after the tsunami, and the delay was only because they have backup batteries that ran out of charge 8 hours in.
> 
> This is remarkable safety and design, considering that the natural gas power plant in Connecticut a few years ago went up like crazy and killed all kinds of people...


I think because of all the nuclear accidents in the past people are scared of modern plants more then they need to be, Though its probably the lasting damage that scares people the most(though the nastiest material doesn't stick around too long). a normal plant blows up, kills a few dozen people... sad, but i think its happened enough times in the past that people don't **** themselves when they hear about it. a NUCLEAR plant blows up? just the thought of radiation spreading across the globe is scary(and rightfully so) but people need to realize the sun blasts the planet with radiation every day, our bodies DO have experience in dealing with radiation. You guys have seen too many movies, these are NOT nuclear bombs(which are DESIGNED to kill people) these are devices that are designed to NOT kill people.


----------



## 98uk

Hmm... worrying times. Should be OK in the UK though.


----------



## voice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OP*
> Edit 1631 GMT: *Japan nuclear agency rates nuclear plant accident in ***ushima at 4 on 0-7 international scale. More information on that figure: The 1986 Chernobyl disaster was rated 7 on the International Nuclear Event Scale; the 1979 Three Mile Island accident was rated 5.* The rating of 4 for the ***ushima plant incident comes from an as yet unidentified official at Japan's nuclear safety agency, news wires report.


Told you. Nothing to freak out about. Whenever people hear the word "nuclear" they assume the world is over. If this was an oil power station the same would have happened.


----------



## JY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *98uk;12705215*
> Hmm... worrying times. Should be OK in the UK though.


err... no, it will effect the entire planet like chernobyl did.
any radiation exposure is dangerous and there is no "safe limit", every radio active partical has the potential to damage a human cell and cause mutation its just that the more radiation you are exposed to the greater the risk of mutation. also of course large doses of it do have immediate effects, this is largely due to ionisation.


----------



## 98uk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jy360;12705304*
> err... no, it will effect the entire planet like chernobyl did.
> any radiation exposure is dangerous and there is no "safe limit", every radio active partical has the potential to damage a human cell and cause mutation its just that the more radiation you are exposed to the greater the risk of mutation. also of course large doses of it do have immediate effects.


Where does it say anywhere that the entire world is going to be covered in radiation and cause us all to grow 3rd arms? I'm pretty sure i'm going to wake up like normal for the next few weeks.


----------



## JY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *98uk;12705316*
> Where does it say anywhere that the entire world is going to be covered in radiation and cause us all to grow 3rd arms? I'm pretty sure i'm going to wake up like normal for the next few weeks.


no the whole growing extra limbs thing is really a myth. when I say mutation I mean in the cancer form


----------



## 98uk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jy360;12705349*
> no the whole growing extra lims thing is really a myth. when I say mutation I mean in the cancer form


I think it was fairly obvious I was over exaggerating. But, I don't think the whole world (let alone the UK) will be effected by this, not in a physical sense at least.


----------



## JY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *98uk;12705367*
> I think it was fairly obvious I was over exaggerating. But, I don't think the whole world (let alone the UK) will be effected by this, not in a physical sense at least.


well when chernobyl happened radiation levels increased by something like 35% in the UK due to fallout.


----------



## 98uk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jy360;12705405*
> well when chernobyl happened radiation levels increased by something like 35% in the UK due to fallout.


And Chernobyl was a lot closer, especially because of the wind and was a much stronger disaster. So, like I said, the nuclear thing in Japan won't affect us here.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Theres still massive amounts of Radiation on the sarcophagus in Chernobyl. If that thing collapses, theres going to be trouble.


----------



## Dyson Poindexter

Even with a minor leak of radiation from the plant, you receive more radiation from eating a banana or having sex. I live 10 miles from a NPP in the US.


----------



## xXjay247Xx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock;12705648*
> Theres still massive amounts of Radiation on the sarcophagus in Chernobyl. If that thing collapses, theres going to be trouble.


It wont collapse, they have a team out there that are putting a layer of concrete over it to stop it collapsing.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Japanes engineers are wicked smart i am sure they will not let it collapse at all. they know the risks if it does collapse or completely blow.

I wish I had the funds to go and help out in any way I can or even be able to donate but im completely broke.


----------



## DesertRat

GREAT! now no one will want to build more nuclear power stations.

Considering I didn't think an explosion like this was possible in a western-style reactor, it looks like it's going to be a less extreme Chernobyl, Lovely. I was hoping it'd be another 3 mile island.

One worse is CA will probably get fallout from it if it turns for the worst... anyone post a air currents map yet to see where the fallout will be heading?


----------



## civilian_pr0ject

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyson Poindexter;12705682*
> *Even with a minor leak of radiation from the plant, you receive more radiation from eating a banana or having sex.* I live 10 miles from a NPP in the US.


.......








ok, now explain yourself.


----------



## T-bone Steak

This is pretty scary. Even living in Florida, I am fearful of the possible effects this whole thing could have on life as we know it.


----------



## DesertRat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amurph0;12704277*
> That plant was built in the 60's. There is a huge difference between the technology in that plant and current nuclear power technologies.
> 
> If a natural disaster occurred that was large enough to cause a meltdown in a modern power plant then the meltdown would be the least of you're problems.
> 
> In reality a modern nuclear power plant using current day technologies and proper waste disposal is one of the safest, efficient and most environmentally friendly sources of energy.
> 
> The problem is with old obsolete power plants, not nuclear power itself.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Argorn5757;12704402*
> even so, considering how old this Japanese reactor is it is handling it remarkably well. if this had happened to any of the old soviet RBMKs there would be no more russia.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amurph0;12704432*
> Exactly my point.
> 
> Considering the fact that this 40 year old plant, using obsolete technology, is actually holding up pretty well, despite the fact that it was near to the epicentre of an incredibly large earthquake with many aftershocks in the 5.0-6.0 range, would actually reinforce the fact that modern nuclear power is safe.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Argorn5757;12704477*
> I 100% agree. With the safeguards we have today nuclear power is perfectly safe and the 3rd cleanest form of energy available. (besides the rods, but we have ways to deal with those). The worse nuclear accident in American history, at Three Mile Island, caused no deaths or injuries; the radiation dose for people within 10 miles of the plant was 8 millirem (equal to one chest X-Ray) with no person receiving more then 100 millirem (1/3 of what you get naturally in a year).


I agree w/ what these guys said to be honest. However, the general populace will never realize this and allow modern nuclear plants to be constructed after this incident.


----------



## the.FBI

*sigh* this is going to push the development of nuclear power back another 50 years as the general public is scared that they will all die and get cancer when a natural disaster occurs. Japan is smart, they have stated that radiation is not a significant risk to many right now.


----------



## metroidfreak

http://www.weatherimages.org/data/imag192.html

For those who asked for it. Jest stream map.

Oh CNN and their scare tactics. "Pump system cause nuclear blast".
As far as we know there's been an explosion. Not a full on nuclear blast/meltdown...


----------



## i_hax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *civilian_pr0ject;12705855*
> .......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ok, now explain yourself.


IIRC Banana's contain a lot of potassium, some of which is a naturally occuring radioactive isotope.


----------



## paulerxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12702351*
> I've been trolling Google image search and tineye.com and the map has appeared on other websites. Several people have retracted it said it was panic positing. It seems that it's just a theoretical radiation map of the worst case scenario.


Mind sharing?


----------



## DesertRat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metroidfreak;12705890*
> http://www.weatherimages.org/data/imag192.html
> 
> For those who asked for it. Jest stream map.
> 
> Oh CNN and their scare tactics. "Pump system cause nuclear blast".
> As far as we know there's been an explosion. Not a full on nuclear blast/meltdown...


TY.

To my knowledge it's not physically possible for a nuclear plant to actually explode in an atomic blast. Just melt itself down, cause steam explosions, and bring a lot of fallout depending on the exact type of incident.


----------



## Zen00

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DesertRat;12705913*
> TY.
> 
> To my knowledge it's not physically possible for a nuclear plant to actually explode in an atomic blast. Just melt itself down, cause steam explosions, and bring a lot of fallout depending on the exact type of incident.


Truly.

For a nuclear blast to occur you need a critical mass of nuclear material. They do not use critical masses of that type. Also, it needs to be highly compressed (which is why the original nuclear weapons were so big, they were full of explosives to compress the radioactive material), and so on. The suitcase nukes of today use different technology to achieve fission, which will not be possible here.


----------



## amorph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jy360;12705405*
> well when chernobyl happened radiation levels increased by something like 35% in the UK due to fallout.


a 35% increase of basically nothing = ............basically nothing


----------



## DrDarkTempler

Didn't bother to read all this pages, but So far it seem that the explosion was cause by a Pump failure and not the plant itself

is a hydrogen blast from what CNN said. and is not a nuclear blast


----------



## amorph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrDarkTempler;12706015*
> Didn't bother to read all this pages, but So far it seem that the explosion was cause by a Pump failure and not the plant itself
> 
> is a hydrogen blast from what CNN said. and is not a *nuclear blast*


If you did read the thread you would have learned by now that nuclear power plants can't generate a nuclear blast.


----------



## Artikbot

I think they are safe, as long as they have stopped the plant (which they have) and the moderator bars are fully inside the core (I believe they are).

The steel shell where the reactor is housed is probably the strongest place in Earth.

Let's hope the best.


----------



## justarealguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DesertRat;12706164*
> The problem with Chernobyl was that w/ all the auto-safeties off they ran a test, and when the core got too hot and they tried to drop the rods in the manual scram sequence, the rods were already warped by the heat and were unable to mediate the reaction. The core took off, and melted itself down, exploding it's building from the heated gases, raining down burning radioactive pieces. Unless the mediating rods have been severely damaged in some way by the explosion, a meltdown isn't possible, nothing even close to a Chernobyl-type event should occur. It's still gonna be a messy clean up for the Japanese tho.


It wasn't just the warped rods, it's that the tips of the rods were covered in graphite to displace the coolant before the neutron-absorbing shaft was in place. This momentary contact with the graphite caused a reaction in the lower part of the core that caused more heat to be generated, instead of slowing the reaction down.


----------



## Dyson Poindexter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justarealguy;12706239*
> It wasn't just the warped rods, it's that the tips of the rods were covered in graphite to displace the coolant before the neutron-absorbing shaft was in place. This momentary contact with the graphite caused a reaction in the lower part of the core that caused more heat to be generated, instead of slowing the reaction down.


That, and a positive void coefficient that caused the reaction to run away once the coolant began bubbling.

Nowadays comparing nuclear plants to Chernobyl is like being horrified that the Model T didn't have airbags.


----------



## DesertRat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justarealguy;12706239*
> It wasn't just the warped rods, it's that the tips of the rods were covered in graphite to displace the coolant before the neutron-absorbing shaft was in place. This momentary contact with the graphite caused a reaction in the lower part of the core that caused more heat to be generated, instead of slowing the reaction down.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyson Poindexter;12706276*
> That, and a positive void coefficient that caused the reaction to run away once the coolant began bubbling.
> 
> *Nowadays comparing nuclear plants to Chernobyl is like being horrified that the Model T didn't have airbags*.


Ty for the further clarification.

LOL. True, but people will still compare and need to know these incidents aren't alike.


----------



## justarealguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyson Poindexter;12706276*
> That, and a positive void coefficient that caused the reaction to run away once the coolant began bubbling.
> 
> Nowadays comparing nuclear plants to Chernobyl is like being horrified that the Model T didn't have airbags.


Chernobyl was an extremely unlikely combination of poor design, terrible management, uneducated operators, people ignorant to the effects of radiation and a government that hides vital information from those directly in control of the reactor.


----------



## DesertRat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justarealguy;12706308*
> Chernobyl was an extremely unlikely combination of poor design, terrible management, uneducated operators, people ignorant to the effects of radiation and a government that hides vital information from those directly in control of the reactor.


Yup, it was pretty much Murphy's law embodied in a nuclear accident.


----------



## SugarySnack

Glad to hear the situation is mostly under control. I think Japan has done a very good job thus far (from what I have read/heard) in dealing with the quake(s) and all that has happened due to it.

+1 rep to Japan


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justarealguy;12706308*
> Chernobyl was an extremely unlikely combination of poor design, terrible management, uneducated operators, people ignorant to the effects of radiation and a government that hides vital information from those directly in control of the reactor.


We def dont need another Chernobyl at all. Could you imagine "Chernobyl" in todays age. almost positive it would be worse this day n age then in 1986


----------



## Dyson Poindexter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4LC4PON3;12706392*
> We def dont need another Chernobyl at all. Could you imagine "Chernobyl" in todays age. almost positive it would be worse this day n age then in 1986


If pre-86 RBMK reactors were still running, it could be. Luckily with modern reactors you have to try very hard to cause an incident.

Look at the Japanese plant:

Cooling failure
Generator failure
Battery backup failing
Structural damage
Little to no support infrastructure (Grid power, etc)
Big hydrogen explosion
With all that, there's still no meltdown/ hazardous leak. Even with an epic earthquake and tsunami, the plant has so far remained safe. That's modern plants for you.


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyson Poindexter;12706530*
> If pre-86 RBMK reactors were still running, it could be. Luckily with modern reactors you have to try very hard to cause an incident.
> 
> Look at the Japanese plant:
> 
> Cooling failure
> Generator failure
> Battery backup failing
> Structural damage
> Little to no support infrastructure (Grid power, etc)
> Big hydrogen explosion
> With all that, there's still no meltdown/ hazardous leak. Even with an epic earthquake and tsunami, the plant has so far remained safe. That's modern plants for you.


That, and I think some luck has played the part, by no means is the situation over, if the second Tsunami causes issues or any other aftershocks...then we could be looking at a far worse problems, hence the 20KM evacuation methinks.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE;12706740*
> That, and I think some luck has played the part, by no means is the situation over, if the second Tsunami causes issues or any other aftershocks...then we could be looking at a far worse problems, hence the 20KM evacuation methinks.


I think the 20km exclusion zone is more the result of no-one wanting to be accused of not being careful enough, should the nearly impossible actually happen.


----------



## Epitope

I can't help but laugh at the people who were saying that alternative biofuels are stupid and nuke energy is the obvious safe alternative... There were a lot of people here on OCN saying that on some of the biofuels news articles only days ago.

EDIT: Yes nuke power is rather safe. But when things go wrong they really really REALLY go wrong...


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless;12706885*
> I think the 20km exclusion zone is more the result of no-one wanting to be accused of not being careful enough, should the nearly impossible actually happen.


Oh yeah for sure, people are getting there bases covered which is good with me as it means the public are protected also, but I would not be surprised if behind closed doors the situation is more ominous than is being let out to the media. Not that I am trying to scare monger, but the amount of issues this plant is having would lead me to think that things are NOT under control as much as some people think.


----------



## aweir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12704042*
> Actually the indian ocean earthquake was slightly bigger, it was a 9.1, this was a 9.0


No, this was an *8.9*. There is a BIG difference between 8.9 and 9.0.

A 9.0 is TEN TIMES stronger than a 8.9.

Stop spreading misinformation.


----------



## petran79

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i_hax;12705904*
> IIRC Banana's contain a lot of potassium, some of which is a naturally occuring radioactive isotope.


We have enough radiation and breath enough air from electronic devices around us already.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Epitope;12706937*
> I can't help but laugh at the people who were saying that alternative biofuels are stupid and nuke energy is the obvious safe alternative... There were a lot of people here on OCN saying that on some of the biofuels news articles only days ago.
> 
> EDIT: Yes nuke power is rather safe. But when things go wrong they really really REALLY go wrong...


Even with the accidents that have happened, nuclear energy is still safer, and has caused less harm per unit of delivered power than fossil fuels.

The jury is still out on biofuels, but even if they can be produced cleanly and stably, nuclear power is still going to have considerable advantages in many areas.


----------



## Twinnuke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12706997*
> No, this was an *8.9*. There is a BIG difference between 8.9 and 9.0.
> 
> A 9.0 is TEN TIMES stronger than a 8.9.
> 
> Stop spreading misinformation.


Actually you should stop spreading misinformation. -_- it's only about 40% stronger or 1.41x


----------



## aweir

Saying one thing and doing the opposite are 2 different things. If there is no risk from the radiation, then why are 200,000 people being evacuated?

2123: Reuters: The emergency cooling system is no longer functioning at the ***ushima No. 3 reactor, an official from Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency has told journalists.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12706997*
> No, this was an *8.9*. There is a BIG difference between 8.9 and 9.0.
> 
> A 9.0 is TEN TIMES stronger than a 8.9.
> 
> Stop spreading misinformation.


It's not misinformation.
Quote:


> The U.S. Geological Survey said the quake had a moment magnitude of 9.1, revised from an earlier 8.9 estimate, and said it was the largest quake in Japan since recordkeeping began.


Source: http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110311-713517.html

I've actually been wondering why the news agencies have been reporting 8.9 when USGS and other organizations have stated it was a 9.1.


----------



## Telimektar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Epitope;12706937*
> I can't help but laugh at the people who were saying that alternative biofuels are stupid and nuke energy is the obvious safe alternative... There were a lot of people here on OCN saying that on some of the biofuels news articles only days ago.
> 
> EDIT: Yes nuke power is rather safe. But when things go wrong they really really REALLY go wrong...


More people probably died because of crops being cultivated only for biofuels than because of radiation. The cultivation for biofuels only serve to create famine while some dumb chicks in the West think they are saving the planet.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12706997*
> No, this was an *8.9*. There is a BIG difference between 8.9 and 9.0.


There's conflicting info about that right now actually; the USGS page STILL says "this event has not been reviewed by a seismologist", and the tsunami warning center reportedly revised their own rating of this to 9.1, making it equal in strength.

Edit; beaten to it, I didn't see the USGS re-rated it the same thing. In fact the source link does NOT mention that...


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

Stalker: ***ushima
Would be a cool game.....

Jk, I am glad it was not as bad as I would have expected. Idk about the crops though, there has to be radiation going through the air right now


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

there saying people are testing positive for radiation exposure on cnn


----------



## aweir

Sorry, though I realize that some media outlets are reporting 8.8 too.

I trusts the USGS


----------



## erniv2

Well they cant admit there was a core meltdown, cause of the population density it is about 40 Million ppl in the fallout zone they had to evacuate.

As soon they started to give out iodine pills u could guess something is wrong.

The aftermath will be seen in 5 to 10 years when ppl die to an increased cancer rate.

At the moment its the best to calm down cause the infrastructure is down and there is no way to do a large scale evacuation.


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Epitope;12706937*
> I can't help but laugh at the people who were saying that alternative biofuels are stupid and nuke energy is the obvious safe alternative... There were a lot of people here on OCN saying that on some of the biofuels news articles only days ago.
> 
> EDIT: Yes nuke power is rather safe. But when things go wrong they really really REALLY go wrong...


You do realize things still haven't gone REALLY wrong right? Even with the massive amount of damage done there still hasn't been any large scale issues aside from the initial radiation leak and explosion. Since then they have been successfully cooling all the reactors. Considering the amount of damage done and the fact that a meltdown hasn't already occurred if anything shows just how safe nuclear energy really is nowadays. Sadly this is still probably gonna set back nuclear power another 20 years from fear mongering.


----------



## aweir

Salty seawater + steel = ?

I'm on the USGS site and see NO mention of 9.1 anywhere.

Reactor #3 cooling failure...


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12707232*
> I'm on the USGS site and see NO mention of 9.1 anywhere.


Again, the entry still says the event has *NOT* been reviewed by a seismologist; it's entirely computer-generated. They need to update it manually once they've officially verified its actual strength.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Japanese Gov. distributes Potassium iodine tablets. per CNN


----------



## erniv2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12707232*
> Salty seawater + steel =?


Actually pumping water into the cores is the best to do it cools down and slows down the nuclear reaction water is an excelent insulator for radioactiity.

Cause of the physical propertys water has it absorbs neutrons and protons jumping around and slows down the reaction+the cooling aspect it offers.

If the steel developes rust in 30 years is unintresting today, today the priority is to stop the nuclear reaction and the overheating of the nuclear material.


----------



## Lampen

From Reuters: The number of people exposed to radiation near ***ushima No. 1 nuclear plant could reach 160, an official from the Japan Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency has said. Nine people have shown signs of possible exposure.


----------



## nukefission

now what?
What will happen :|
IM SCARED


----------



## kurt1288

I think there's also different methods of assigning magnitudes. Yes, there's Richter but there are others (and according to wikipedia, the moment has superseded the Richter):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richter_magnitude_scale
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_magnitude_scale


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock;12707269*
> Japanese Gov. distributes Potassium iodine tablets. per CNN


Precautionary measure. If radioactive material has leaked out of the facility its likely to be Iodine-131 and Cesium-137. Taking the Potassium Iodine will saturate your thyroid gland and keep it from trying to absorb the Iodine-131.


----------



## aweir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12707119*
> It's not misinformation.
> 
> Source: http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110311-713517.html
> 
> I've actually been wondering why the news agencies have been reporting 8.9 when USGS and other organizations have stated it was a 9.1.


Link? http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/Tsunami_warning_center_raises_magnitude_of_Japan_quake_to_91.html

how official is this?


----------



## Ikon

This unit was 14 days away from being driven down for good. I could guess that it has not been modernized for a while now.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qwertymac93;12705132*
> hmm, I'm not too worried, just because the containment was destroyed, doesn't mean the plant is 10 minutes to melt down. also, i think the "maximum allowed radiation" is a bit lower then what a full grown adult can really handle, small children might have problems though, IF the levels they are quoting actually reach us, that is...


1 mSv/h (the latest report says it's down to 70 mSv/h. Background radiation meters are offline so these are hand metered somewhere.) is nothing that a healthy adult human can't stand, but everything counts.
When parts of your DNA breaks, sometimes it doesn't get fixed right and it causes a mutation in your DNA. But that doesn't mean you will die in cancer.

Dosage of 50 mSv / year is pretty common for a class A radiation worker around the world. Some plants doesn't allow you to get more then 15 mSv / year, which is good and archievable (again, some plants).
ALARA is for human, from humans.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i_hax;12705904*
> IIRC Banana's contain a lot of potassium, some of which is a naturally occuring radioactive isotope.


Radioactive decay in a banana is far away from what got released from that unit today.

They still might use sea water with added boron (to keep the fuel under critical and prevent radiation) as a coolant. Clean water just became a luxury in Japan.
Prevent melting is the primary misison, but this adds secondary problems.

Venting pressure from the containment means that some contamination do appear outside the plant. Iodine 131 isotope has a half time of 8 days, but cesium 137 has 30 years half time. Some can be filtered before releasing.

There seems to be high pressure in the containment of ***ushima I - 1, 2 and 3. It's not over yet.


----------



## shnur

I'm not sure if the public should be made aware of everything that is going on there, they might just panic and make the situation harder for people to control.
Although on the other side of things, knowing what is going on around you is good...


----------



## aweir

*gulp*


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> There seems to be high pressure in the containment of ***ushima I - 1, 2 and 3. It's not over yet.


You think there could be another explosion?


----------



## 98uk

I am listening to BBC Radio 5 Live and they just said a 2nd reactor is at risk of explosion. It's not over.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

this is not good


----------



## Lampen

I heard it in passing on Al-Jazeera, BBC and CNN. Trying to find it in writing. I'm wondering if they are repeating from what the heard someone else say because I can't find it. I think someone from USGS might have been hinting at an upgraded rating and the news agencies ran with it.


----------



## aweir

If the containment dome can explode without the container vessel being damaged then maybe they want that to happen so they can have access to pump water on the core.


----------



## kurt1288

On BBC:

Integrity of the containment vessel is still intact and they're pumping sea-water in (for Reactor #1).

And sorry if this has already been mentioned (which I'm sure it has).


----------



## Epitope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scyy;12707223*
> You do realize things still haven't gone REALLY wrong right? Even with the massive amount of damage done there still hasn't been any large scale issues aside from the initial radiation leak and explosion. Since then they have been successfully cooling all the reactors. Considering the amount of damage done and the fact that a meltdown hasn't already occurred if anything shows just how safe nuclear energy really is nowadays. Sadly this is still probably gonna set back nuclear power another 20 years from fear mongering.


So the entire world is watching with their fingers crossed because nuke energy is inherently safe?


----------



## Lampen

Thus far there have been six aftershocks with a magnitude rating of 6.0 or higher since the initial earthquake. Seismologist from the University of Leeds(Tim Right(SP?)) on CNN reports that it's likely that at least 1 aftershock of 7.5 - 8.0 will strike.


----------



## aweir

Read this, I'm still trying to understand how an explosion could happen unless the core already began to melt through the reactor vessel and they failed to vent the steam from the containment dome.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12723092


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12707486*
> If the containment dome can explode without the container vessel being damaged then maybe they want that to happen so they can have access to pump water on the core.


The containment building is an idependent structure and can be damaged independently, but there is no way they want to damage the containment building. There are vastly better ways to get water inside than destroying an important layer of protection.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Epitope;12707547*
> So the entire world is watching with their fingers crossed because nuke energy is inherently safe?


The world is watching with fingers crossed because they don't know what is going on and everyone likes to sensationalize things.

No one is saying nuclear energy is inherently safe, but it is cleaner and safer than many other alternatives.


----------



## Floy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12707563*
> Seismologist from the University of Leeds(Tim Right(SP?)) on CNN reports that it's likely that at least 1 aftershock of 7.5 - 8.0 will strike.


And because this scale is logarithmic, an aftershock of that magnitude will be immense...not good...


----------



## aweir

Why are they saying the containment building collapsed when it clearly exploded? they are downplaying it because collapse sounds better than explode...but cmon ....the whole world saw what actually happened!


----------



## 98uk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12707653*
> Why are they saying the containment building collapsed when it clearly exploded?


Because when something explodes, it causes the core building to collapse as it is damaged. IIRC, a lot of nuclear stations are designed to collapse in on themselves so as to cover the reactor.


----------



## Andr3az

So there might be another explosion in second reactor?


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tizmo;12707601*
> And because this scale is logarithmic, an aftershock of that magnitude will be immense...not good...


Although it will still be orders of magnitudes weaker than the 8.9 (not to downplay either. An 8 is still pretty bad).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12707653*
> Why are they saying the containment building collapsed when it clearly exploded? they are downplaying it because collapse sounds better than explode...but cmon ....the whole world saw what actually happened!


Because I think it did both. Part of it exploded and some of what remained collapsed. At least that's what I've understood.


----------



## Rakhasa

Jesus, I feel for Japan right now. What a terrible chain of events for them, my friend is in Osaka, I really hope he'll be okay!


----------



## InterestedThirdParty

this is just depressing


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Epitope;12707547*
> So the entire world is watching with their fingers crossed because nuke energy is inherently safe?


No one said it is inherently safe. I said the fact that there hasn't been a major catastrophe from the plant as of yet after such a major disaster if anything shows that nuclear energy is relatively safe. Aside from the cooling failure at reactor #3 everyone is talking about they have it pretty much under control. This has been an incredibly unlikely chain of events that have lead up to this. Even if the plant were to melt down it still wouldn't be a sign of how unsafe nuclear power is, it would be a sign that the 5th largest earthquake ever recorded along with several tsunamis is unsafe because 99.9999% of the time when there isn't some insane natural disaster occurring it is essentially 100% safe.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andr3az;12707666*
> So there might be another explosion in second reactor?


The cooling systems in reactors two and three have been problematic since the quake. I think most of the concern is now directed at Reactor Three since it's experienced the same type of failures that Reactor one did. Not sure if it will result in an explosion though. We'll have to wait and see what happens.


----------



## Markeh

Even living on the other side of the planet, I read that and crapped bricks.


----------



## aweir

If the building collapsed on the core as designed then how can they cool the reactor with water??
they are saying the control rods are exposed. If the fuel hits the rods the nuclear reaction is started all over again!


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12707759*
> The cooling systems in reactors two and three have been problematic since the quake. I think most of the concern is now directed at Reactor Three since it's experienced the same type of failures that Reactor one did. Not sure if it will result in an explosion though. We'll have to wait and see what happens.


Weren't they fairly certain that the explosion was a chemical reaction and not caused directly by the reactor itself?


----------



## runeazn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Markeh;12707775*
> Even living on the other side of the planet, I read that and crapped bricks.


so did i dude


----------



## aweir

Reports that the rods are exposed AND the meltdown has occured. Biulding collapses ontop of the containment vessel...what happens now?


----------



## molino

where you got this aweir
seems like bbc no longer accurate reports


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12707831*
> Reports that the rods are exposed AND the meltdown has occured. Biulding collapses ontop of the containment vessel...what happens now?


are you being forreal?


----------



## Markeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12707831*
> Reports that the rods are exposed AND the meltdown has occured. Biulding collapses ontop of the containment vessel...what happens now?


According to some sources, chaos.

Slightly off topic, but it is of small concern that my iTunes playlist just decided to play "The Final Countdown". :l it does pick its moments, this stupid program.


----------



## 98uk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *molino;12707840*
> where you got this aweir
> seems like bbc no longer accurate reports


No one has accurate reports because nothing has been officially confirmed or reserached. I would say, if you're going to follow the news, the most reputable stations would be BBC, NHK or Al-Jazeera.


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12707831*
> Reports that the rods are exposed AND the meltdown has occured. Biulding collapses ontop of the containment vessel...what happens now?


Figure out if this will affect Canada and when


----------



## aweir

http://video.godlikeproductions.com/modules/vPlayer/vPlayer.swf?f=http://video.godlikeproductions.com/modules/vPlayer/vPlayercfg.php?fid=3980d4bfd87c6f75870

Ignore the dumbass intro..


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12707831*
> Reports that the rods are exposed AND the meltdown has occured. Biulding collapses ontop of the containment vessel...what happens now?


Link/Proof?


----------



## Rpg2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12707831*
> Reports that the rods are exposed AND the meltdown has occured. Biulding collapses ontop of the containment vessel...what happens now?


....I don't want to think about it. Quake, tsunami, and a nuclear melt down. That's a lot for one country to deal with.


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12707831*
> Reports that the rods are exposed AND the meltdown has occured. Biulding collapses ontop of the containment vessel...what happens now?


Link? Can't find anything stating that.


----------



## Hellfighter

The meltdown is a terrible thing to happen, but I'm more focused on where the winds blow. If the blow in the other direction than the models show, the entire country could be contaminated.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12707864*
> http://video.godlikeproductions.com/modules/vPlayer/vPlayer.swf?f=http://video.godlikeproductions.com/modules/vPlayer/vPlayercfg.php?fid=3980d4bfd87c6f75870


Same website where that fake fallout map came from? Waiting on reputable source.


----------



## xd_1771

Does anyone know which direction the jetstream is going at the moment?


----------



## Markeh

I gave up using Twitter for reports. Purely because it's just the same information from an hour ago, retweeted in different languages.

What effects could this have on the US, or further afield?


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12707900*
> Does anyone know which direction the jetstream is going at the moment?


Forecast for North America.

http://www.weatherimages.org/data/imag192.html


----------



## xd_1771

Oh crap
It's going to drop nuclear waste all over Vancouver it seems--
And in a massive north-south wall too... how perfect


----------



## 8-Ball

Meltdown:
http://e.nikkei.com/e/fr/tnks/Nni20110312D12JFF03.htm

Quote:


> The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA) said Saturday afternoon the explosion at the ***ushima No. 1 nuclear plant could only have been caused by a meltdown of the reactor core.


----------



## Markeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8-Ball;12707919*
> Meltdown:
> http://e.nikkei.com/e/fr/tnks/Nni20110312D12JFF03.htm


I just crapped myself. Meltdown! The number of expletives in my head just quadrupled.


----------



## xd_1771

That doesn't prove that it actually did melt down
or does it?


----------



## the.FBI

Nothing linked has pointed to new reliable information about a nuclear meltdown...


----------



## 98uk

Radio 5 Live just said they are preparing to vent radioactive steam from Reactor #2. That is exactly what they did to the other reactor prior to it exploding.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Yeah, theres no solid info about a meltdown.


----------



## 8-Ball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12707938*
> That doesn't prove that it actually did melt down
> or does it?


I don't know either...
:|

That's the only source I could find anything on a meltdown.

I'll post more info if I come upon it.


----------



## Sharaktengu

yup even the news in japan just confirmed the meltdown , but some semi specialist guy said since they are cooling the stuff with sea water it should have cooled off a bit and people shouldnt worry


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *98uk;12707957*
> Radio 5 Live just said they are preparing to vent radioactive steam from Reactor #2. That is exactly what they did to the other reactor prior to it exploding.


How much steam?


----------



## Lampen

THERE HAS NOT BEEN A MELTDOWN
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8-Ball;12707919*
> Meltdown:
> http://e.nikkei.com/e/fr/tnks/Nni20110312D12JFF03.htm


Drudge Report is headlining MELTDOWN and PajamasMedia has picked it up here, describing the source as a "reliable" news site. No other major media organizations have picked up the story. This is likely because it is erroneous, based on outdated information and hysteria-driven journalism. The article claims that Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency "said Saturday afternoon the explosion at the ***ushima No. 1 nuclear plant could only have been caused by a meltdown of the reactor core." There's just one problem: it does not appear the NISA actually said this.

The explosion occurred at approximately 3:30 PM local time. The Telegraph reports that "as the night wore on, there was more encouraging noise. The nuclear safety agency which had spoken of possible 'meltdown' now declared ***ushima a 'level 4 incident' on the accepted international scale, one with only a limited release of radiation and simply 'local consequences.'"

Furthermore, in an official report released by the NISA - current as of midnight - there was no mention of a meltdown.


----------



## ikem

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/12/japan.nuclear/index.html?hpt=T1


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the.FBI;12707942*
> Nothing linked has pointed to new reliable information about a nuclear meltdown...


This, even if a meltdown did happen until multiple sources cite it with reputable information to back it up it is likely nothing more than sensationalism to try and get hits to their site.


----------



## 98uk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock;12707975*
> How much steam?


No idea, it was passed on by Reuters to the BBC Radio 5 Live. Didn't go into specifics.


----------



## xd_1771

So there's radioactive steam already in the air and heading straight for us in BC


----------



## reflex99




----------



## 8-Ball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sharaktengu;12707967*
> yup even the news in japan just confirmed the meltdown , but some semi specialist guy said since they are cooling the stuff with sea water it should have cooled off a bit and people shouldnt worry


This is what he's talking about.
Quote:


> *The core of a nuclear reactor damaged* by Friday's massive earthquake *has partially melted*, Japan's nuclear safety agency said Saturday, and the company that runs the plant is *pouring seawater into the reactor in an attempt to cool it and prevent it from going critical.*


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42044156/ns/world_news-asia-pacific/?GT1=43001


----------



## Lampen

Reuters: Operators are preparing to release radioactive steam from the number *three* reactor at ***ushima No. 1 plant, after the cooling system failed there.


----------



## xd_1771

Three too!?
*prepares to pack my bags*


----------



## kaxel

Bummer, now all the anti-nuclear power people are going to be like, "omg, so dangerous. look what happened." Yeah, it only took an 8.9 quake and a tsunami.


----------



## xd_1771

IT'S ON TV
CHANNEL 33 IN VANCOUVER, SHAW CABLE
Official meltdown may be under way

Channel 33 is CNN
GO EVERYONE


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12707987*
> So there's radioactive steam already in the air and heading straight for us in BC


your fine.


----------



## kurt1288

Don't start freaking out about the West Coast turning into a wasteland until there are more reputable reports (and maybe a conformation fro officials in Japan). And even then, a meltdown doesn't mean that Canada/the US is going to get radiation.

Keep in mind that the news tends to over exaggerate the worst possibilities. And they want to be the first to say what happening so they could be talking about meltdowns before it's really happening.


----------



## Floy

"Meltdown may be under way at ***ushima nuclear reactor, official with Japan's nuclear safety agency tells CNN."


----------



## xd_1771

West coast, prepare to evacuate now


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12708009*
> IT'S ON TV
> CHANNEL 33 IN VANCOUVER, SHAW CABLE
> Official meltdown may be under way
> 
> Channel 33 is CNN
> GO EVERYONE


Stop freaking out, even if it does fully meltdown it is NEVER going to reach you. If that were the case for a meltdown everywhere east of Chernobyl would have been hit by deadly radiation which we know did NOT happen. Stop playing into the hand of sensationalist media, you have NOTHING to worry about.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scyy;12708039*
> Stop freaking out, even if it does fully meltdown it is NEVER going to reach you. If that were the case for a meltdown everywhere east of Chernobyl would have been hit by deadly radiation which we know did NOT happen.


exactly this.


----------



## 98uk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scyy;12708039*
> Stop freaking out, even if it does fully meltdown it is NEVER going to reach you. If that were the case for a meltdown everywhere east of Chernobyl would have been hit by deadly radiation which we know did NOT happen.


... no... because the winds were Westerly after Chernobyl and instead they dropped all over Scandinavia and the United Kingdom. There was a big issue with farm animals being contaminated. If winds are east, it could well reach you.


----------



## xd_1771

A Japanese nuclear safety agency representative is on CNN at the moment


----------



## Munkypoo7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12708001*
> Three too!?
> *prepares to pack my bags*


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12708009*
> IT'S ON TV
> CHANNEL 33 IN VANCOUVER, SHAW CABLE
> Official meltdown may be under way
> 
> Channel 33 is CNN
> GO EVERYONE


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12708038*
> West coast, prepare to evacuate now


Trying to out do Fox News in the mass hysteria effect are ya?


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *98uk;12708060*
> ... no... because the winds were Westerly after Chernobyl and instead they dropped all over Scandinavia and the United Kingdom. There was a big issue with farm animals being contaminated. If winds are east, it could well reach you.


EDIT. Nevermind.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12708070*
> A Japanese nuclear safety agency representative is on CNN at the moment


That's the Japanese Ambassador and the safety agency is NOT CONFIRMING a full OR partial meltdown. They are discussing Reactor #1 of Plant #1 at the moment. The on that had it's outer building explode earlier. Conflicting information everywhere.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Official says it is not a meltdown


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *98uk;12708060*
> ... no... because the winds were Westerly after Chernobyl and instead they dropped all over Scandinavia and the United Kingdom. There was a big issue with farm animals being contaminated. If winds are east, it could well reach you.


Please play semantics some more, you knew what I meant it doesn't matter which way I said it would go. He is worrying about getting deadly dose of radiation half way across the world which is not going to happen.


----------



## xd_1771

Yeah, he said it is not a meltdown
but has said that a fuel rod has melted. Not the reactor, but a fuel rod.


----------



## 98uk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurt1288;12708083*
> I think what he's getting at is that the radiation wasn't carried the distance of the Pacific Ocean. At least not harmful levels of it.


Yeah, I just picked up that he was saying, it didn't happen then so it won't happen now. Only issue was that then (Chernobyl), it all the radioactive crap went West and hit Europe. If winds are East, it may well go the other way.

No one knows yet


----------



## aweir

Cnn saying this might possibly be a power plant! Foxnews saying it might be a power plant!

I don't believe it...do we have a _reliable_ source?


----------



## phaseshift

man this sucks, my best bud is over there right now


----------



## 98uk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scyy;12708090*
> Please play semantics some more, you knew what I meant. He is worrying about getting deadly dose of radiation half way across the world which is not going to happen.


Aye, true... but never say never D:


----------



## Markeh

xd, you are fairly safe for now. Stop panicking.
However, for the small price of your rig you can have my sofa
Which news channels are relaying this info in the UK, by the way? I can only really pick up BBC, Sky doesn't work on my crap Freeview box.


----------



## Floy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12708107*
> Cnn saying this might possibly be a power plant! Foxnews saying it might be a power plant!
> 
> I don't believe it...do we have a _reliable_ source?


I honestly do not know what to believe. There is just too much contradicting information.


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12708107*
> Cnn saying this might possibly be a power plant! Foxnews saying it might be a power plant!
> 
> I don't believe it...do we have a _reliable_ source?


Until I see a quote from a Japanese official that it was a power plant or something along those lines, I'm not really going to take anything that's said for reliable because as mentioned above, there's too much contradicting info. The news stations could say that there was a meltdown and a nuclear explosion was imminent. If they're right, they're right and they can say they said it first. If they're wrong, chances are they don't say anything and keep going and no one really cares.


----------



## 98uk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Markeh;12708121*
> xd, you are fairly safe for now. Stop panicking.
> However, for the small price of your rig you can have my sofa
> Which news channels are relaying this info in the UK, by the way? I can only really pick up BBC, Sky doesn't work on my crap Freeview box.


I watch Al-Jazeera. Try that, it's very good.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tizmo;12708122*
> I honestly do not know what to believe. There is just too much contradicting information.


Problem is, it's the middle of the night there and a lot of the danger zones are off limits to everyone.


----------



## 8-Ball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12708107*
> Cnn saying this might possibly be a power plant! Foxnews saying it might be a power plant!
> 
> I don't believe it...do we have a _reliable_ source?


That's what I am looking at as well.

CNN has the ambassador on air...
But from what I heard he isn't confirming if it's a meltdown or not...

remember, he said he gets an update every hour.


----------



## Lampen

At this point there's no confirmation of meltdown from any official government sources. Furthermore we do not know if the containment dome/vessel has been compromised.


----------



## aweir

Now they are saying there possibly was a tsunami although it's unconfirmed. Scientists still trying to determine what all that wet stuff was that washed ashore.


----------



## Krymore

I dont belive it has melted down yet. Its on the brink of melt down.

To limit damage to the reactor core, Tokyo Electric Power Company began injecting sea water mixed with boron into the primary containment vessel in an operation that got under way Saturday night, IAEA said.

The use of sea water and boron was described as a "Hail Mary pass" by Robert Alvarez, senior scholar at the Institute for Policy Studies focused on energy policies and a former senior policy adviser to the U.S. secretary of energy.

Another expert said enough was known to conclude that Saturday's nuclear events in Japan rank high on the list of similar incidents. "If this accident stops right now it will already be one of the three worst accidents we have ever had at a nuclear power plant in the history of nuclear power," said Joseph Cirincione, an expert on nuclear materials and president of the U.S.-based Ploughshares Fund, a firm involved in security and peace funding.

So basically if the sea water dosent keep the temps down the reactor is going to blow.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/12/japan.nuclear/index.html?hpt=T1


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *98uk;12708114*
> Aye, true... but never say never D:


And I mean yes, it did travel quite a ways but even then it really wasn't a large hazard anywhere other than in the direct vicinity. Obviously it wasn't good but it seems to me that western Europe is still completely habitable.


----------



## molino

http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream/3&hpt=T1
OFFICIAL PRESS REPORT RIGHT NOW


----------



## phaseshift

any live video feeds? oh man...crymore! another devil dog!


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12708142*
> Now they are saying there possibly was a tsunami although it's unconfirmed. Scientists still trying to determine what all that wet stuff was that washed ashore.


And this contributes what to the conversation?


----------



## 98uk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scyy;12708152*
> And I mean yes, it did travel quite a ways but even then it really wasn't a large hazard anywhere other than in the direct vicinity. Obviously it wasn't good but it seems to me that western Europe is still completely habitable.


I remember seeing that a few hundred farms in Wales still have to have their cattle checked with Geiger counters before they can be sold in the market. That was last year as well, over 20 years after Chernobyl.


----------



## phaseshift

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *molino;12708166*
> http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream/3&hpt=T1
> OFFICIAL PRESS REPORT RIGHT NOW


umm this guy doesn't sound so convincing


----------



## Bwaaaa

If it blows, wouldnt they have to evacuate entire Japan? Where to move so many people to, incase it happens?


----------



## Krymore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bwaaaa;12708183*
> If it blows, wouldnt they have to evacuate entire Japan? Where to move so many people to, incase it happens?


Bring them to America. Plenty of land. ... We could bring back vending machines







I love Japan, you can get anything in a vending machine... even used underwear.


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krymore;12708145*
> I dont belive it has melted down yet. Its on the brink of melt down.
> 
> To limit damage to the reactor core, Tokyo Electric Power Company began injecting sea water mixed with boron into the primary containment vessel in an operation that got under way Saturday night, IAEA said.
> 
> The use of sea water and boron was described as a "Hail Mary pass" by Robert Alvarez, senior scholar at the Institute for Policy Studies focused on energy policies and a former senior policy adviser to the U.S. secretary of energy.
> 
> Another expert said enough was known to conclude that Saturday's nuclear events in Japan rank high on the list of similar incidents. "If this accident stops right now it will already be one of the three worst accidents we have ever had at a nuclear power plant in the history of nuclear power," said Joseph Cirincione, an expert on nuclear materials and president of the U.S.-based Ploughshares Fund, a firm involved in security and peace funding.
> 
> So basically if the sea water dosent keep the temps down the reactor is going to blow.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/12/japan.nuclear/index.html?hpt=T1


It isn't really at the brink either they were reporting the rods being at just over 100c a couple hours ago, full meltdown doesn't occur till 540c+. Partial meltdown is still a bad thing but they have quite a ways before it is anywhere near a global catastrophe.


----------



## the.FBI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scyy;12708203*
> It isn't really at the brink either they were reporting the rods being at just over 100c a couple hours ago, full meltdown doesn't occur till 540c+. Partial meltdown is still a bad thing but they have quite a ways before it is anywhere near a global catastrophe.


My graphics card hits 100C when maxing BFBC2. That doesn't sound anywhere near as bad as people are saying it is. Also, what is the likelihood of the temperature seeing a significant gain if the reactor is not running?


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *98uk;12708177*
> I remember seeing that a few hundred farms in Wales still have to have their cattle checked with Geiger counters before they can be sold in the market. That was last year as well, over 20 years after Chernobyl.


I did not know that, good to know. Still doesn't make it a global catastrophe the way some make it out to be.


----------



## aweir

They are possibly saying there is possible chance of a possible meltdown, possibly.

this link is possibly from Cnn.

possibly click here http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/12/japan.quake.nuclear.failure/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1


----------



## phaseshift

to lighten the mood

http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream/3&hpt=T1

the girl keeps breathing heavy and sounds like she's about to orgasm...


----------



## Andr3az

Quote:


> 2318: US nuclear experts warn that pumping sea water to cool a quake-hit Japanese nuclear reactor is an "act of desperation" that may foreshadow a Chernobyl-like disaster, AFP reports. "The situation has become desperate enough that they apparently don't have the capability to deliver fresh water or plain water to cool the reactor and stabilise it, and now, in an act of desperation, are having to resort to diverting and using sea water," said Robert Alvarez, who works on nuclear disarmament at the Institute for Policy Studies


:s


----------



## Floy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *98uk;12708129*
> Problem is, it's the middle of the night there and a lot of the danger zones are off limits to everyone.


Isn't it 0820 right now over there? They are 9 hours ahead of us here in the UK.


----------



## Krymore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the.FBI;12708231*
> My graphics card hits 100C when maxing BFBC2. That doesn't sound anywhere near as bad as people are saying it is. Also, what is the likelihood of the temperature seeing a significant gain if the reactor is not running?


***ushima fuel cores are melting at 2000C and dropping onto steel floor. Steel melts at 1500C. Could still be brought under control, but Four other ***ushima nuke reactors are struggling with similar problem. If multiple meltdown begins, it will be uncontrollable

Nowhere near 100c according to this.....

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/03/11/nuclear-meltdown-race-to-save-reactors-in-japan/


----------



## scyy

opps where I said

"It isn't really at the brink either they were reporting the rods being at just over 100c a couple hours ago, full meltdown doesn't occur till 540c+."

They were referring to the coolant, not the rods themselves so the rods are likely quite a bit hotter than that. Still likely nowhere near a full meltdown.


----------



## Telimektar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *98uk;12708177*
> I remember seeing that a few hundred farms in Wales still have to have their cattle checked with Geiger counters before they can be sold in the market. That was last year as well, over 20 years after Chernobyl.


The radioactive cloud from Chernobyl passed above where my mom lived during the night (she was carrying me in his belly, maybe that's why I always had a ton of health issues XD), in the morning all the flowers and plants in the garden were dead, not only in our garden but everyone in the immediate surrounding too.


----------



## metroidfreak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the.FBI;12708231*
> My graphics card hits 100C when maxing BFBC2. That doesn't sound anywhere near as bad as people are saying it is. Also, what is the likelihood of the temperature seeing a significant gain if the reactor is not running?


The temps are in Kalvin not Celsius. Meltdown begins to occur at about 1100degree Kalvin when the rods begin to melt.


----------



## xd_1771

The Japanese guy on CNN has said that the reactor itself hasn't melted, but a rod has.


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krymore;12708265*
> ***ushima fuel cores are melting at 2000C and dropping onto steel floor. Steel melts at 1500C. Could still be brought under control, but Four other ***ushima nuke reactors are struggling with similar problem. If multiple meltdown begins, it will be uncontrollable
> 
> *Nowhere near 100c according to this.....*
> 
> http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/03/11/nuclear-meltdown-race-to-save-reactors-in-japan/


I know, I meant to say coolant. Not the rods themselves. Heres where I got the numbers for that.

http://www.dailytech.com/PostEarthquake+Japanese+Reactors+Face+Meltdown+3+Exposed+to+Radiation/article21114.htm


----------



## Lampen

Well as the government has classified this as a INES Level 4 Accident there might be some validity to the claims, but we're not sure yet:

Level 4 Qualifications:
Fuel melt or damage to fuel *resulting in more than 0.1% release of core inventory.
Release of significant quantities of radioactive material within an installation with a high *probability of significant public exposure.


----------



## Krymore

Where is Captian Planet and this sweet mullet when you need him to take a reactor into space









With our powers combined....


----------



## aweir

what you don't realize is that once the fuel seeps through the container and is exposed to oxygen the burning will speed up exponentially and get even hotter resulting the chain reaction we know as "full" meltdown.

someone clarify, the fuels is burning hotter than the temp that steel melts, right?


----------



## scutzi128

This is insane and it happens right after I just took an intro to nuclear reactor theory class.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

I have a strange feeling that Japan may not have control over the nuclear plant at the moment and im hoping there is not a meltdown. Ive been following this since it started.

I really dont see anything good coming from this in all honesty. I read that there having issues with getting water to cool the reactors
*Very informative about Nuclear meltdown & what can happen*
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uhQKAmOw5I&NR=1[/ame]


----------



## 8-Ball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4LC4PON3;12708394*
> I have a strabge feeling that Japan may not have control over the nuclear plant at the moment and im hoping there is not a meltdown. Ive been following this since it started.
> 
> I really dont see anything good coming from this in all honesty


Same.

The Seawater issue seems like a very desperate attempt.

I have little knowledge on how the coolant works, but seawater seems very desperate.


----------



## Lampen

These are light water reactors so the normal coolant is just regular water. The fact that they are using sea water is probably an indicator of pump failure. Also they are using boric acid along with it because Boron-10 absorbs neutrons(to become Boron-11) and should help to slow any reactions currently taking place.


----------



## aweir

Not to be off topic but this is a very valuable site to know when an earthquake has hit almost immediately.
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_all.php


----------



## Floy

Just something I thought about, since they are using sea water to try and cool down the reactors, what happens if small pieces of debris come in contact? Surely they are using filters etc, but what about very small particles?


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12708437*
> These are light water reactors so the normal coolant is just regular water. The fact that they are using sea water is probably an indicator of pump failure. Also they are using boric acid along with it because Boron-10 absorbs neutrons(to become Boron-11) and should help to slow any reactions currently taking place.


Right but non of us or the Japan Society knows anything right now. For all we know they have no control over it & its about to meltdown or has already started. The video I posted above says people should clear back to about 20 miles if this thing goes.

Im praying that Japan does finaly get control over it if they dont already. only time will tell. I also read that Japan is not out of danger yet since Aftershocks can still happen for a couple of days after. its a crappy situation either way if it meltsdown or not. Lives lost, homes, Possible Meltdown causing diseases & deaths you name it it sucks


----------



## Tunapiano

The core partially melted, i don't know why anyone watches CNN, they are all idiots.
Quote:


> The core of a nuclear reactor damaged by Friday's massive earthquake has partially melted, Japan's nuclear safety agency said Saturday, and the company that runs the plant is pouring seawater into the reactor in an attempt to cool it and prevent it from going critical.
> 
> Early Sunday, Japan's nuclear safety agency reported an emergency at a second reactor in the same complex.
> 
> The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said that the cooling system malfunctioned at Unit 3 of the ***ushima Daiichi nuclear plant No. 1. The agency said it was informed of the emergency by Tokyo Electric Co., or TEPCO, the utility that runs the plant.
> 
> No further details of the troubles at Unit 3 were immediately available.


source


----------



## FellsPoint

guys im scared. wut would this mean for the East coast of the US if this does happen?


----------



## 8-Ball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12708507*
> The core partially melted, i don't know why anyone watches CNN, they are all idiots.
> 
> source


From what I saw on CNN (which I RARELY watch), it's very slow paced, and they beat around the bush too much!

Tell us the damn facts!


----------



## Telimektar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FellsPoint;12708524*
> guys im scared. wut would this mean for the East coast of the US if this does happen?


Noting at all, it's far too far to receive any substantial radiation if any.
Anyway there's an official from the Japanese government giving a press conference right now on NHK World (not sure if it's live as it says recorded inthe right corner).

Apparently CNN is broadcasting the feed from NHK too, does it usually happen ?


----------



## Dmoney

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FellsPoint;12708524*
> guys im scared. wut would this mean for the East coast of the US if this does happen?


Nothing, we are fine. Just as long as the Seabrook powerplant never ever fails. I'm like only 12 miles away from it, and I would be completely screwed if it ever failed.


----------



## CryWin

If anyone has a free to air satellite there is basically an entire japanese (english) channel dedicated to this. On AMC 9/3C at 83W.

More footage than you'll ever get from BBC and CNN.


----------



## Krymore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8-Ball;12708536*
> From what I saw on CNN (which I RARELY watch), it's very slow paced, and they beat around the bush too much!
> 
> Tell us the damn facts!


They can only tell the facts when they get them. Do you really think there letting CNN reporters into the unstable reactor to get readings? When you see a giant mushroom cloud you will know if it melted.


----------



## aweir

"going critical" simply means the (normal) nuclear process is underway. when the rods are inserted into the fuel the reaction begins and babies are born that way..


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tizmo;12708497*
> Just something I thought about, since they are using sea water to try and cool down the reactors, what happens if small pieces of debris come in contact? Surely they are using filters etc, but what about very small particles?


Using sea water is going to wreck the reactors so they really aren't concerned about filtering the water anyway. From what I remember reading that reactor was due to be decommissioned soon anyway. At this point they are more concerned about cooling it down than retraining commercial functionality.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4LC4PON3;12708505*
> Right but non of us or the Japan Society knows anything right now. For all we know they have no control over it & its about to meltdown or has already started. The video I posted above says people should clear back to about 20 miles if this thing goes.
> 
> Im praying that Japan does finaly get control over it if they dont already. only time will tell. I also read that Japan is not out of danger yet since Aftershocks can still happen for a couple of days after. its a crappy situation either way if it meltsdown or not. Lives lost, homes, Possible Meltdown causing diseases & deaths you name it it sucks


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12708507*
> The core partially melted, i don't know why anyone watches CNN, they are all idiots.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8-Ball;12708536*
> From what I saw on CNN (which I RARELY watch), it's very slow paced, and they beat around the bush too much!
> 
> Tell us the damn facts!


Yeah at this point there's too much conflicting information to know what's happened.


----------



## FellsPoint

Thanks for not making fun of me. i feel better now.


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krymore;12708552*
> Why would you call them idiots? They report the news. Not some biased network like fox. They dont have an agenda. AC360 great show. CNN is broad cast all over the world. But hey what do I know.


because half the time CNN reports facts they made up or got from another network.


----------



## aweir

wow they keep getting 6.1 quakes.


----------



## mtbiker033

wow this is terrible. this is the danger of nuclear power, no matter how safe the plant is, mother nature can wreck anything at any time.


----------



## Tunapiano

well the plate they sit on moved 18 meters, with that much movement in a matter of minutes it's possible it could cause aftershocks for months to come


----------



## damric

Ex-Navy reactor operator here.

What has happened is a partial meltdown, similar to the TMI incident. The emergency cooling system, and assciated back-ups have mostly failed. Some pumps are running but not at adequate capacity. This causes the fuel plates to overheat and blister and for some of the uranium fuel to get into the cooling water. Water actually helps the fuel fission faster, so it is kind of compounds the problem when trying to cool the fuel plates. What they have done, as per meltdown procedure is inject boron-tetraflouride (fission poison) to the cooling water. This stuff absorbs thermal neutrons much faster than uranium. As long as they keep adding cooling water and poison, the reactor will eventually shut down and cool down. This could take a week or more. Once it does, they can make the necessary repairs.

As far as the radioactive iodine and cesium gases that were released, this is expected. As long as it is on a small scale, it won't cause problems for the local people. The venting of these gases is quite necessary. Reactors are very high pressure closed systems (think 1500-2000 PSI), designed to keep 500F water from boiling. It's really bad to get steam bubbles on the fuel plates, as they don't transfer heat as well as liquid water. Unfortunately with a bad rupture you obviously can't keep the pressure needed to keep steam forming so they have to vent the gas. They should only need to do this minimally as things will cool down.

Commercial accidents like this simply can't happen on Naval Reactors. Even a huge rupture can be contained, and if necessary the whole engine room can be flooded with seawater with firemain pumps, and is even designed to cool down with natural circulation if there are absolutely no pumps.


----------



## Dom_sufc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12708636*
> well the plate they sit on moved 18 meters, with that much movement in a matter of minutes it's possible it could cause aftershocks for months to come


It was 8 last time I heard!


----------



## Floy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12708636*
> well the plate they sit on moved 18 meters, with that much movement in a matter of minutes it's possible it could cause aftershocks for months to come


From what I have heard it moved 8 feet, about 2 metres...


----------



## 8-Ball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtbiker033;12708633*
> wow this is terrible. this is the danger of nuclear power, no matter how safe the plant is, mother nature can wreck anything at any time.


Wow.

Just like another user said, it only took a 8.9 Earthquake + a Tsunami for this to happen on a 40+ year old plant.


----------



## Krymore

Japan news site. Might have news sooner than American sites. Link is in english.

http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201103110812.html


----------



## Andr3az

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8-Ball;12708652*
> Wow.
> 
> Just like another user said, it only took a 8.9 Earthquake + a Tsunami for this to happen on a 40+ year old plant.


And even with that we don't have second chernobyl.


----------



## aweir

http://video.godlikeproductions.com/modules/vPlayer/vPlayer.swf?f=http://video.godlikeproductions.com/modules/vPlayer/vPlayercfg.php?fid=6bbd31b7d6af3f10e8c


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12708677*
> http://video.godlikeproductions.com/modules/vPlayer/vPlayer.swf?f=http://video.godlikeproductions.com/modules/vPlayer/vPlayercfg.php?fid=6bbd31b7d6af3f10e8c


I wouldn't trust them tbh...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andr3az;12708668*
> And even with that we don't have second chernobyl.


Exactly.


----------



## Buzzin92

im not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but a second cooling system is failing in another reactor.


----------



## aweir

He's just explaining the possible outcomes.


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzin92;12708695*
> im not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but a second cooling system is failing in another reactor.


It has and also your avatar totally fits the current situation.


----------



## aweir

what if we have multiple meltdowns?
I don't even....


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krymore;12708575*
> They can only tell the facts when they get them. Do you really think there letting CNN reporters into the unstable reactor to get readings? *When you see a giant mushroom cloud you will know if it melted.*


That's not what happens.


----------



## CryWin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krymore;12708656*
> Japan news site. Might have news sooner than American sites. Link is in english.
> 
> http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201103110812.html


The site for the channel I have been watching on satellite TV:

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/

Live news:

http://wwitv.com/tv_channels/6810.htm


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12708719*
> what if we have multiple meltdowns?
> I don't even....


Well no matter how many they have,, if they have a meltdown everywhere within about 10 miles will be uninhabitable for the next 50 years.


----------



## xd_1771

Nuclear winter anybody?
[sarcasm]BREAKING NEWS: multiple meltdowns in Japan causes a nuclear winter..... global warming reversed!!![/sarcasm]

Perhaps we should discuss the possible consequences.
1. Multiple meltdowns = nuclear winter, definitely
2. A single meltdown could/would screw the west coast of N. America


----------



## aweir

Reliable scientists say if the containment building explodes that means the containment vessel is releasing gasses. There is no other way you'd get hydrogen buildup.
Which means stuff has leaked out of the core.


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12708751*
> Nuclear winter anybody?
> [sarcasm]BREAKING NEWS: multiple meltdowns in Japan causes a nuclear winter..... global warming reversed!!![/sarcasm]
> 
> Perhaps we should discuss the possible consequences.
> 1. Multiple meltdowns = nuclear winter, definitely
> 2. A single meltdown could/would screw the west coast of N. America


Hell ya, we can start living out a real life metro 2033!

And as already said, it's not going to screw over the west coast. Even if you were to get some radiation it won't be enough to cause any truly major damage.


----------



## JY

OMG its actually going to blow. im scared


----------



## Ikon

"The number of people exposed to radiation near ***ushima No. 1 nuclear plant could reach 160"
Just to note people. this doesn't mean that they are in any kind of danger.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock;12707406*
> You think there could be another explosion?


It's a guesswork. I would go for maybe or i don't believe it.

The primary containment of ***ushima I - 1 is still intact. It's the secondary containment that's gone.
There was some wondering about this few pages back.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tizmo;12708497*
> Just something I thought about, since they are using sea water to try and cool down the reactors, what happens if small pieces of debris come in contact? Surely they are using filters etc, but what about very small particles?


To simply say it:
That depris becomes radioactive.

And again, huge risks are still involved.


----------



## damric

Much misinformation going around about control rods and fuel plates. Control rods are made of hafnium, a fission poison. When they are inserted (via gravity + springs during a scram, or intentionally via control drives by the operator) the reactor shuts down due to negative reactivity. There is no such thing as a fuel rod. The uranium fuel is contained in alloyed plate layers. What happens during a partial meltdown is that one or more of these plates overheats and some of the fission fragments enter the cooling water. Since water is also the moderator, this is a bad thing as it feeds the thermal fission process. When this happens they manually add poison (boron-tetraflouride) to the cooling water to keep escaped fission fragments from having more thermal fission reaction (boron absorbs thermal neutrons much easier than uranium).


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12708739*
> Well no matter how many they have,, if they have a meltdown everywhere within about 10 miles will be uninhabitable for the next 50 years.


It entirely depends on the scale. Look at Three Mile Island. The worst nuclear accident in US history and people are still living where they were decades later.


----------



## pjBSOD

I like how when things happen like this everyone automatically becomes a scientist.


----------



## Tunapiano

Well since everyone is watching CNN, they just reported they are detecting 2 types of radiation outside the facility which is why everyone is assuming a meltdown is under way, the Japanese safety agency can't confirm if it has started.


----------



## xd_1771

Think about it: Desperations, cooling system failures.... we're waiting for a meltdown, but I think that's not the real issue. The real issue is whether the meltdown IS going to happen or not.

So what do you think: will it happen no matter what at this stage, or will we be extremely lucky and able to control it?


----------



## aweir

Quote:


> So what do you think: will it happen no matter what at this stage, or will we be extremely lucky and able to control it?


Let's take a poll. All in favor of a meltdown say "yay". All opposed say "nay".


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12708811*
> Think about it: Desperations, cooling system failures.... we're waiting for a meltdown, but I think that's not the real issue. The real issue is whether the meltdown IS going to happen or not.
> 
> So what do you think: will it happen no matter what at this stage, or will we be extremely lucky and able to control it?


I think it will happen, if the rumours of the leaked Radioisotopes are true then it could be too late to contain, the leaked isotopes should be within the inner container of the rods and uranium, if they have leaked then there is a breach in that container.


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dmoney;12708573*
> Nothing, we are fine. Just as long as the Seabrook powerplant never ever fails. I'm like only 12 miles away from it, and I would be completely screwed if it ever failed.


Nuclear plants don't just up and fail randomly. It took a ridiculous amount of damage to get to this point.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12708810*
> Well since everyone is watching CNN, they just reported they are detecting 2 types of radiation outside the facility which is why everyone is assuming a meltdown is under way, the Japanese safety agency can't confirm if it has started.


I am not just watching cnn i have Multiple websites open at this moment with tons of videos im watching on all sites. The reason I am doing this is for my own understanding really. I dont know nothing bout Nuclear power plants at all & i have learned a ton of stuff today.

I am just reading & watching everything I can really. Even tho japan is going through this & I do feel horrible for them I find alot of this fascinating (Not to step on any toes here)


----------



## 8-Ball

Ok...
This site says that there IS a meltdown...

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2011/03/12/Thousands-leave-after-Japan-nuke-meltdown/UPI-79061299930534/


----------



## aweir

Explain how you can have a meltdown WITHOUT the container eventually being breached?


----------



## xXjay247Xx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *98uk;12708177*
> I remember seeing that a few hundred farms in Wales still have to have their cattle checked with Geiger counters before they can be sold in the market. That was last year as well, over 20 years after Chernobyl.


Yea, its kinda sad really, glad I was born after this accident, and don't live in north Wales.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/may/12/farmers-restricted-chernobyl-disaster


----------



## Marin

Get out of here, Stalker.


----------



## 53977

They are now doing a evacuation 20km radius of the site.

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031231-e.html


----------



## JY

im leaving for mars, anyone coming with?


----------



## damric

Even if the fuel plates 100% meltdown, it's not going to be like Chernobyl.

These reactors use U-235 for fuel, a slow, thermal fission fuel. It does not explode like U-238, a fast fission fuel. U-235 absorbs a slow, thermal neutron, then fissions. It needs water to slow down fast neutrons (moderator) into thermal neutrons. Fast neutrons bounce off U-235 nucleus like a ping-pong ball hitting a bowling ball.

Now when I say melt down, that means each alloyed fuel plate blisters and allows fission fragments to enter the cooling water. This contaminated water can be poisoned with boron-tetraflouride pellets to keep further fission from occurring. The shutdown-cooldown process pretty rapid. Natural decay of these fission products is logarithmic. Example: a navy reactor compartment is safe to enter after just a few hours. I would expect these reactors to have safe enough radiation levels to allow repairs after about a week. The longest lived byproduct being cobalt-60.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric;12708924*
> Even if the fuel plates 100% meltdown, it's not going to be like Chernobyl.
> 
> These reactors use U-235 for fuel, a slow, thermal fission fuel. It does not explode like U-238, a fast fission fuel. U-235 absorbs a slow, thermal neutron, then fissions. It needs water to slow down fast neutrons (moderator) into thermal neutrons. Fast neutrons bounce off U-235 nucleus like a ping-pong ball hitting a bowling ball.
> 
> Now when I say melt down, that means each alloyed fuel plate blisters and allows fission fragments to enter the cooling water. This contaminated water can be poisoned with boron-tetraflouride pellets to keep further fission from occurring. The shutdown-cooldown process pretty rapid. Natural decay of these fission products is logarithmic. Example: a navy reactor compartment is safe to enter after just a few hours. I would expect these reactors to have safe enough radiation levels to allow repairs after about a week. The longest lived byproduct being cobalt-60.


Thank you for your contributions to the thread damric. Good to have someone who knows what they are talking about and can dispel peoples fears and irrational claims.


----------



## JY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric;12708924*
> Even if the fuel plates 100% meltdown, it's not going to be like Chernobyl.
> 
> These reactors use U-235 for fuel, a slow, thermal fission fuel. It does not explode like U-238, a fast fission fuel. U-235 absorbs a slow, thermal neutron, then fissions. It needs water to slow down fast neutrons (moderator) into thermal neutrons. Fast neutrons bounce off U-235 nucleus like a ping-pong ball hitting a bowling ball.
> 
> Now when I say melt down, that means each alloyed fuel plate blisters and allows fission fragments to enter the cooling water. This contaminated water can be poisoned with boron-tetraflouride pellets to keep further fission from occurring. The shutdown-cooldown process pretty rapid. Natural decay of these fission products is logarithmic. Example: a navy reactor compartment is safe to enter after just a few hours. I would expect these reactors to have safe enough radiation levels to allow repairs after about a week. The longest lived byproduct being cobalt-60.


won't the water break down at that heat then the hydroyen will explode and radio active particals will escape?


----------



## SmokinWaffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *E-Peen;12708792*
> I like how when things happen like this everyone automatically becomes a scientist.


I was just about about to post this. It's quite funny to read people who know nothing telling us that if there is one meltdown we will all have to evacuate to space for 50 years, or we'll die.

Although, damric knows what he is talking about, and I thank him for his informational and helpful posts.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jy360;12708966*
> *won't the water break down at that heat then the hydroyen will explode* and radio active particals will escape?


The bolded part has supposedly already happened, the latter hasn't since the containment vessel is still intact.


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric;12708924*
> Even if the fuel plates 100% meltdown, it's not going to be like Chernobyl.
> 
> These reactors use U-235 for fuel, a slow, thermal fission fuel. It does not explode like U-238, a fast fission fuel. U-235 absorbs a slow, thermal neutron, then fissions. It needs water to slow down fast neutrons (moderator) into thermal neutrons. Fast neutrons bounce off U-235 nucleus like a ping-pong ball hitting a bowling ball.
> 
> Now when I say melt down, that means each alloyed fuel plate blisters and allows fission fragments to enter the cooling water. This contaminated water can be poisoned with boron-tetraflouride pellets to keep further fission from occurring. The shutdown-cooldown process pretty rapid. Natural decay of these fission products is logarithmic. Example: a navy reactor compartment is safe to enter after just a few hours. I would expect these reactors to have safe enough radiation levels to allow repairs after about a week. The longest lived byproduct being cobalt-60.


Good post, you always seem to have good information when it comes to nuclear energy.


----------



## Villosa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12708982*
> I was just about about to post this. It's quite funny to read people who know nothing telling us that if there is one meltdown we will all have to evacuate to space for 50 years, or we'll die.
> 
> Although, damric knows what he is talking about, and I thank him for his informational and helpful posts.


+1 to that brother! Accurate info is good info.


----------



## damric

The radioactive gases are quite short-lived. The worst one is Nitrogen (I think it is N-18), but it literally decays in minutes. The hydrogen is so chemically reactive (and has such a small neutron absorption rate) that it would never escape the primary coolant. Hydrogen gas is really only a problem during a continuous control rod withdrawal casualty (don't worry it's too late for this to happen), where control rods withdrawal so fast that hydrogen explodes.

I only know all this crap because it was crammed down my throat at gunpoint at Navy Nuclear Power School


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric;12709044*
> The radioactive gases are quite short-lived. The worst one is Nitrogen (I think it is N-18), but it literally decays in minutes. The hydrogen is so chemically reactive (and has such a small neutron absorption rate) that it would never escape the primary coolant. Hydrogen gas is really only a problem during a continuous control rod withdrawal casualty (don't worry it's too late for this to happen), where control rods withdrawal so fast that hydrogen explodes.
> 
> I only know all this crap because it was crammed down my throat at gunpoint at Navy Nuclear Power School


Have any thoughts on the earlier explosion that largely destroyed the building surrounding Reactor One?


----------



## X-Nine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric;12709044*
> The radioactive gases are quite short-lived. The worst one is Nitrogen (I think it is N-18), but it literally decays in minutes. The hydrogen is so chemically reactive (and has such a small neutron absorption rate) that it would never escape the primary coolant. Hydrogen gas is really only a problem during a continuous control rod withdrawal casualty (don't worry it's too late for this to happen), where control rods withdrawal so fast that hydrogen explodes.
> 
> I only know all this crap because it was crammed down my throat at gunpoint at Navy Nuclear Power School


I just want to be clear here, (and no, I'm no nuclear power expert, far from it) that because of the actual fuel used to power the reactors, we're not looking at a large-scale explosion, however we could be looking at land/water contamination should it leak out, correct? Or would it be insignificant?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12709071*
> Have any thoughts on the earlier explosion that largely destroyed the building surrounding Reactor One?


No idea. My guess would be a switchgear fire (arcflash). There's so much electrical controls, motors, generators, hydraulic systems, secondary steam plant systems and other crap that could explode. We had a circuit breaker blow up on the USS Nimitz in #2 reactor aux-room and it was quite the bang, though short lived. Our main danger was a bad lube-oil fire in the engine room, but we did have Halon and AFFF sprinkler systems just in case.

As bad as that sounds, I always felt safe working there. I feel not so safe at the steel mill that I work at now. I swear there is 99 ways to die everywhere I look, even the drive to work is dangerous!
Quote:


> I just want to be clear here, (and no, I'm no nuclear power expert, far from it) that because of the actual fuel used to power the reactors, we're not looking at a large-scale explosion, however we could be looking at land/water contamination should it leak out, correct? Or would it be insignificant


Correct. It's not going to explode. The water isn't going to leak out either. What will leak out is the radioactive gases when they are purposely vented to atmosphere. These are short lived (hours), but they may need to vent several times until it is cooled down. The really bad stuff (heavy metal fission products) are going to stay in the coolant system. Temporarily evacuating the immediate area is not a bad idea. You wouldn't x-ray yourself for fun ~


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric;12709142*
> No idea. My guess would be a switchgear fire (arcflash). There's so much electrical controls, motors, generators, hydraulic systems, secondary steam plant systems and other crap that could explode. We had a circuit breaker blow up on the USS Nimitz in #2 reactor aux-room and it was quite the bang, though short lived. Our main danger was a bad lube-oil fire in the engine room, but we did have Halon and AFFF sprinkler systems just in case.


I figured as much. Japanese Government just reported that the earlier explosion that destroyed the building surrounding Reactor One was caused by a malfunction in the pumping system.


----------



## X-Nine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric;12709142*
> Correct. It's not going to explode. The water isn't going to leak out either. What will leak out is the radioactive gases when they are purposely vented to atmosphere. These are short lived (hours), but they may need to vent several times until it is cooled down. The really bad stuff (heavy metal fission products) are going to stay in the coolant system. Temporarily evacuating the immediate area is not a bad idea. You wouldn't x-ray yourself for fun ~


Interesting. Thank you for the clarification and the intelligent, factual posts. +Rep to you.


----------



## [T]yphoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GIPrice;12702308*
> Awesome now I get to die from it too, damn radiation.


its that or the end of the world (2012)


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

christ thats one hell of a pump malfunction.


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock;12709243*
> christ thats one hell of a pump malfunction.


^This


----------



## pioneerisloud

Okay, I gave up reading after page #20.

Honestly, do those of us on the West Coast have to worry? I mean it sounds quite far fetched that we'd all instantly die within a week's time if it explodes all the way over there in Japan.

But it does make me worry







.


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;12709261*
> Okay, I gave up reading after page #20.
> 
> Honestly, do those of us on the West Coast have to worry? I mean it sounds quite far fetched that we'd all instantly die within a week's time if it explodes all the way over there in Japan.
> 
> But it does make me worry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


No no and no. It's 47 pages with my posts per page and i've read it all.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock;12709243*
> christ thats one hell of a pump malfunction.


The Main Coolant Pumps on USS Nimitz (512MW reactors) were as big as an apartment. I could only imagine how big they are in that huge commercial reactor. These huge centrifugal pumps take a ton of power to operate, so you could image the electrical explosion of you crossed the 3-phase lines under load.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;12709261*
> Okay, I gave up reading after page #20.
> 
> Honestly, do those of us on the West Coast have to worry? I mean it sounds quite far fetched that we'd all instantly die within a week's time if it explodes all the way over there in Japan.
> 
> But it does make me worry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


You don't have anything to worry about.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric;12709281*
> The Main Coolant Pumps on USS Nimitz (512MW reactors) were as big as an apartment. I could only imagine how big they are in that huge commercial reactor. These huge centrifugal pumps take a ton of power to operate, so you could image the electrical explosion of you crossed the 3-phase lines under load.


ooo. See im picturing something very different in my mind.


----------



## the.FBI

This is what most people on this site think of when they hear the word "pump".


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

This is what most people on this site think of when they hear the word "pump".

^^
yes, lmao, thats pretty much exactly what I think of. pretty bad even tho im a air cooling guy.


----------



## damric

Same concept, just on a grand scale









The next question you might ask is..."what about after everything is shutdown and cooled down. That's a lot of contaminated water!"

It gets filtered by a resin ION exchanger until it is at safe levels. They are going to need a TON of resin to clean this up, and the used resin stays radioactive, pretty much forever. They will bury it at some remote nuclear waste facility.

Almost all of the fission fragments are very short lived isotopes. Like I said, the only long lived one is cobalt-60. It can be filtered out with said ion exchanger.


----------



## 161029

I thought the F word was in the title at first







.


----------



## Playapplepie

A meltdown is going to be pretty catastrophic. Radioactive debris along with a tsunami is pretty bad.


----------



## Marc-Olivier Beaudoin

every country should give a bit of a support ... japan is a country worth supporting as they are worth something to the world.

I think france could help A LOT with the reactor as they are the best in the world on this kind of energy production .

I wish them the best as a complete meltdown would be hugely more catastrophic then what already happened with the earthquake


----------



## SmasherBasher

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/12/japan.quake.nuclear.failure/index.html?hpt=T1

Yikes.


----------



## Pwnography

everyone thinks of Chernobyl but back then nuclear fission was a more primitive beast.

Not to play down how bad this is but they got this under control (ish)


----------



## 8-Ball

*A Quick Guide to Japanese "Meltdown" Coverage: 4 Lessons*
Quote:


> We here at Bellum are certainly not trying to downplay the seriousness of the situation at the ***ushima nuclear plant. Our goal is merely to help our readers separate fact from hysteria and identify logical leaps and conclusion-jumping in today's media coverage. Take, for instance, the latest CNN headline: "Official: Meltdown may be under way." Technically true, but what did the official actually say?


http://bellum.stanfordreview.org/?p=3134


----------



## Lampen

OP Updated: Yaroslav Shtrombakh, a Russian nuclear expert, has told the Associated Press that it is unlikely that the Japanese plant will suffer a meltdown like the one in 1986 at Chernobyl, when a reactor exploded and sent a cloud of radiation over much of Europe. That reactor, unlike the reactors at ***ushima, was not housed in a sealed container


----------



## 8-Ball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12709803*
> OP Updated: Yaroslav Shtrombakh, a Russian nuclear expert, has told the Associated Press that it is unlikely that the Japanese plant will suffer a meltdown like the one in 1986 at Chernobyl, when a reactor exploded and sent a cloud of radiation over much of Europe. That reactor, unlike the reactors at ***ushima, was not housed in a sealed container


I think the Chernobyl scare has been stressed enough.

Moving on...


----------



## Pwnography

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8-Ball;12709788*
> *A Quick Guide to Japanese "Meltdown" Coverage: 4 Lessons*
> 
> http://bellum.stanfordreview.org/?p=3134


Ha feels nice to be right without realizing it


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pwnography;12709757*
> everyone thinks of Chernobyl but back then nuclear fission was a more primitive beast.
> 
> Not to play down how bad this is but they got this under control (ish)


Exactly. Chernobyl was designed bad from the start. It used fast fission, positive reactivity coefficient (as temperature of moderator increased, so did fission rate), tiny control rods (which melted before they could be inserted to shut down the reactor), and very minimal containment. It had a bad hydrogen explosion and literally burned through the basement and into the ground, and is still hot to this day.

The two other plants that are having cooling problems probably won't even have a partial meltdown, as they didn't lose flow until hours later after shutdown.

But the one that is having a partial meltdown, I wouldn't want to be within a few miles of the area until they get the mess cleaned up. You really don't want to be within a half-mile of the plant when they need to vent pressure to atmosphere.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8-Ball;12709821*
> I think the Chernobyl scare has been stressed enough.
> 
> Moving on...


Just letting the people who are further into the thread know that the OP has been updated. I've been doing it all day since this all started and figured it's easiest to continue what I've been doing up until now.


----------



## Pwnography

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric;12709849*
> Exactly. Chernobyl was designed bad from the start. It used fast fission, positive reactivity coefficient (as temperature of moderator increased, so did fission rate), tiny control rods (which melted before they could be inserted to shut down the reactor), and very minimal containment. It had a bad hydrogen explosion and literally burned through the basement and into the ground, and is still hot to this day.
> 
> The two other plants that are having cooling problems probably won't even have a partial meltdown, as they didn't lose flow until hours later after shutdown.
> 
> But the one that is having a partial meltdown, I wouldn't want to be within a few miles of the area until they get the mess cleaned up. You really don't want to be within a half-mile of the plant when they need to vent pressure to atmosphere.


Well yes im not suggesting that people go and watch it







, still a nuclear meltdown not the kinda stuff you want to mess with







.

But yes Chernobyl was a mess, trust the Soviets to cut corners.

This real issue if that the media are blowing this so out of proportion that it might set back nuclear power buy a good few years, which looking at the state of the planet we cant afford. I wish they would concentrate on the fact that there will be "minimal" damage and how safe nuclear powerplants are these days. But no scaremongering sells.

However my thoughts do go out to the Japanese, who else is going to make 500 episodes of a kid pirate with a straw hat and bendy arms.


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> (as temperature of moderator increased, so did fission rate)


They shoudn't of overclocked it









But on a serious note, lets just hope that they can keep the core cool. feel sorry for japan :/


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

bill nye the science guy on cnn next! lol, surely he knows how to fix this


----------



## SmokinWaffle

Since the Dawn of media, it's been over-exaggerated. Purely because, that's what sells.

Put the words "Total", "Nuclear", and "Meltdown" in the same article, and people will read, and probably believe it.


----------



## molino

well 8-ball has it, we already know everything there is to know and obviously, taking care of an unstable nuclear core doesn't get fixed in one day hence why i find this quote every revealing
"Most importantly, remember that very little information is actually known. Media organizations get scraps and tidbits, and these are recycled endlessly"

also damric, would you happen to have good reading about chernobyl case for me?


----------



## damric

I think it is very easy for the intelligent OCN crowd to understand basically how nuclear power works since it has many of the same concepts of water cooling when it comes to heat exchange.

To typical person I explain nuclear power like this: *Hot Rock -> makes steam -> turbine goes roundy roundy*.

But you all can understand it more since you know about closed loop heat exchangers. Just think of the fuel as the processor, the fuel plate cladding is metal (not copper, but aluminum-zirconium alloy) much like the heat sink on a processor. Water flows through the plates in highly engineered channels, much like a waterblock. This water is pumped by centrifugal pumps, just like your swiftech, but on a more rugged and grand scale. Instead of a radiator that is air cooled, the water exchanges heat with a boiler (with a seconday loop of water). In this heat exchange in the boiler the primary water flows through very tiny, flat tubes, exchanging heat with the seconday loop's boiler water that flows around these tubes (instead of air passing a radiator's fins).

Quote:



also damric, would you happen to have good reading about chernobyl case for me?


I'm not sure. The one I read was classified _Confidential_ (a low classification). I would bet I can find you something on the internet unclassified with 99% of the same info as in the classified version. It's quite an interesting read. They used helicopters to dump sand on the fire and the pilots would get sick in less than a minute and crash.


----------



## shnur

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


Just letting the people who are further into the thread know that the OP has been updated. I've been doing it all day since this all started and figured it's easiest to continue what I've been doing up until now.


Thanks for the continuous updates Lampen, it's appreciated









Quote:



Originally Posted by *molino*


well 8-ball has it, we already know everything there is to know and obviously, taking care of an unstable nuclear core doesn't get fixed in one day hence why i find this quote every revealing 
"Most importantly, remember that very little information is actually known. Media organizations get scraps and tidbits, and these are recycled endlessly"

also damric, would you happen to have good reading about chernobyl case for me?


I'd like a good read too if it's not too hard.


----------



## Lampen

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *shnur*   Thanks for the continuous updates Lampen, it's appreciated







  
You're welcome









Quote: 
  I'd like a good read too if it's not too hard.  
 Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *molino*   well 8-ball has it, we already know everything there is to know and obviously, taking care of an unstable nuclear core doesn't get fixed in one day hence why i find this quote every revealing 
"Most importantly, remember that very little information is actually known. Media organizations get scraps and tidbits, and these are recycled endlessly"

also damric, would you happen to have good reading about chernobyl case for me?  
These are the two I've read and I really enjoyed them:

Chernobyl Record: The Definitive History of the Chernobyl Catastrophe by Richard F. Mould

  Amazon.com: Chernobyl Record: The Definitive History of the Chernobyl Catastrophe (9780750306706): R.F Mould: Books

Voices from Chernobyl: The Oral History of a Nuclear Disaster by Svetlana Alexievich and Keith Gessen

  Amazon.com: Voices from Chernobyl: The Oral History of a Nuclear Disaster (9780312425845): Svetlana Alexievich, Keith Gessen: Books


----------



## damric

wikipedia is a good start, though it doesn't contain the engineering layout of the plant (probably the classified part).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernob...re_containment


----------



## Blameless

Quote:



Originally Posted by *8-Ball*


Same.

The Seawater issue seems like a very desperate attempt.

I have little knowledge on how the coolant works, but seawater seems very desperate.


Water, for the most part, is water. Nothing really has higher specific heat capacity, so there really isn't a better coolant.

Also, you have to remember that the infrastructure in the area in in shambles, so even if there was a superior alternative, they wouldn't be able to easily get it to the reactors.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tizmo*


Just something I thought about, since they are using sea water to try and cool down the reactors, what happens if small pieces of debris come in contact? Surely they are using filters etc, but what about very small particles?


Nothing.

Raw sewage would work almost as well, as long as it's mostly water and they put a moderator in it. Contamination of the reactor is not an issue, it's already been severely damage and will need an overhaul anyway. The reactor contaminating the water and what to do with the waste is a much bigger deal.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *FellsPoint*


guys im scared. wut would this mean for the East coast of the US if this does happen?


Wall Street panic.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


Perhaps we should discuss the possible consequences.
1. Multiple meltdowns = nuclear winter, definitely
2. A single meltdown could/would screw the west coast of N. America


Those consequences are not remotely possible. The first one is especially ludicrous.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *damric*


Even if the fuel plates 100% meltdown, it's not going to be like Chernobyl.

These reactors use U-235 for fuel, a slow, thermal fission fuel. It does not explode like U-238, a fast fission fuel. U-235 absorbs a slow, thermal neutron, then fissions. It needs water to slow down fast neutrons (moderator) into thermal neutrons. Fast neutrons bounce off U-235 nucleus like a ping-pong ball hitting a bowling ball.

Now when I say melt down, that means each alloyed fuel plate blisters and allows fission fragments to enter the cooling water. This contaminated water can be poisoned with boron-tetraflouride pellets to keep further fission from occurring. The shutdown-cooldown process pretty rapid. Natural decay of these fission products is logarithmic. Example: a navy reactor compartment is safe to enter after just a few hours. I would expect these reactors to have safe enough radiation levels to allow repairs after about a week. The longest lived byproduct being cobalt-60.


The more sensible of us appreciate the insight, but I'm afraid most people find impossible comic book level doomsday scenarios more appealing.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *XNine*


I just want to be clear here, (and no, I'm no nuclear power expert, far from it) that because of the actual fuel used to power the reactors, we're not looking at a large-scale explosion, however we could be looking at land/water contamination should it leak out, correct? Or would it be insignificant?


An atomic explosion is impossible, as in you couldn't make one happen with the materials in a fission plant if you tried. Just not enriched enough.


----------



## damric

Found this: a very simplified drawing of chernobyl plant.










The classified schematic I saw must have had a thousand little coolant loops, quite the engineering nightmare.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Here is a Documentry about the Chernobyl plant. Shows scientist actually going inside the sarcophagus after the accident and stuff. Its broken into 5 parts.

  
 You Tube


----------



## Pwnography

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blameless*


An atomic explosion is impossible, as in you couldn't make one happen with the materials in a fission plant if you tried. Just not enriched enough.


Need some more Neutrons for you Uranium cocktail









Always surprises me when people dont realize that the heat capacity of water is very good. I mean has no1 boiled a kettle, takes the piss









Off topic : my old man builds generators XD (or at least makes sure that they are getting built properly), however most of them go to china or the US (General Electric).

Since we have a man in the know, where are we with fusion ? (damric)


----------



## Blameless

The Monticello reactor in Minnesota is the same type of GE BWR-3 that is used in ***ushima I: http://www.nucleartourist.com/us/monti.htm

Buildings are a bit different, but the diagrams of the reactor itself should be nearly identical to the one that has had the largest issues in Japan.


----------



## damric

If y'all are really interested in this stuff, I'd seriously talk to a Navy recruiter. You make bank whether you are officer or enlisted. I remember when I enlisted back in 1998 I made more than $53,000 in bonuses upon completion of my training, which was a lot of money for a 20 year old. The school they send you to (paid) is almost two years long and as tough as MIT (an ex-nuke friend of mine who went back to MIT said it was actually more difficult). They teach you all the applicable Calculus, Physics, Heat Transfer, Fluid Flow, Mechanics, Electronics, and Reactor Dynamics, then you get to qualify on a prototype reactor before going to your first Aircraft Carrier or Submarine. Submariners make even more money in bonuses, but I chose to be on a Carrier. They start you out as higher rank (E-3), automatically advance you to E-4 after first 6 month school, E-5 a year later, and you typically make E-6 before you enlistment is complete at six years.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Since we have a man in the know, where are we with fusion ?


I wouldn't know much about that. I did visit the wish-I-could-make-fusion-reactor in Princeton, New Jersey, and it couldn't sustain fusion more than a millisecond.

My wife said I gotta log off now, so goodnight all.


----------



## Lampen

BBC News Update: 0232: The plant operator says the top of the fuel rods is 3 metres above water - AFP, quoting Kyodo.


----------



## 8-Ball

Quote:



Originally Posted by *damric*


I wouldn't know much about that. I did visit the wish-I-could-make-fusion-reactor in Princeton, New Jersey, and it couldn't sustain fusion more than a millisecond.

*My wife said I gotta log off now, so goodnight all*.


Sad.

You should be with bros.


----------



## Buzzin92

just watching it now, BBC said a fuel rod is exposed and upto 160 people could be afected by radiation.


----------



## Lampen

BBC News Update 0314 GMT: Tepco, which runs the stricken nuclear power plans, is updating its website regularly with technical briefings on the status of the reactors.


----------



## USFORCES

My posts aren't working or what?

EDITED........ For Chunky


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USFORCES*


My posts aren't working?


Do not post that radiation map. It's been LONG discredited and I've had to delete many references to it as it's only fearmongering based on false/exaggerated information.


----------



## Volvo

2012 came early?

Seriously though, I hope those living in Japan can recover from this, or for now, avoid it.


----------



## USFORCES

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;12710566*
> Do not post that radiation map. It's been LONG discredited and I've had to delete many references to it as it's only fearmongering based on false/exaggerated information.


LOL, was wondering what was happening to them, why don't you just close the thread then


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *USFORCES;12710601*
> LOL, was wondering what was happening to them, why don't you just close the thread then


You have a valid reason for this? I initially closed the VERY FIRST news thread about the quake and immediately got several PMs politely asking that it be re-opened. I re-evaluated everything and complied, and this will also be left open as the result of this incident can determine the future of nuclear power in developed nations worldwide. I know there's a LOT of incomplete information, but that's why updates and new valid information are being posted hourly if not faster. This however does NOT mean you can spread what has already been proven to be false information, that's detrimental to the discussion.


----------



## Lampen

TEPCO Press Release on Status of Facilities
Quote:


> Press Release (Mar 13,2011)
> Impact to TEPCO's Facilities due to Miyagiken-Oki Earthquake (as of 8AM)
> 
> Below is major impact to TEPCO's facilities due to the Miyagiken-Oki
> Earthquake that occurred yesterday at 2:46PM.
> *new items are underlined
> 
> [Nuclear Power Station]
> ***ushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station:
> Units 1 to 3: shutdown due to earthquake
> Units 4 to 6: outage due to regular inspection
> * The national government has instructed evacuation for those local
> residents within 20km radius of the site periphery.
> * The value of radioactive material (iodine, etc) is increasing according
> to the monitoring car at the site (outside of the site). One of the
> monitoring posts is also indicating higher than normal level.
> * Since the amount of radiation at the boundary of the site exceeds the
> limits, we decide at 4:17PM, Mar 12 and we have reported and/or noticed
> the government agencies concerned to apply the clause 1 of the Article 15
> of the Radiation Disaster Measure at 5PM, Mar 12.
> * In addition, a vertical earthquake hit the site and big explosion has
> happened near the Unit 1 and smoke breaks out around 3:36PM, Mar 12th.
> * We started injection of sea water into the reactor core of Unit 1 at
> 8:20PM, Mar 12 and then boric acid subsequently.
> * High Pressure Coolant Injection System of Unit 3 automatically stopped.
> We endeavored to restart the Reactor Core Isolation Cooling System but
> failed. Also, we could not confirm the water inflow of Emergency Core
> Cooling System. As such, we decided at 5.10AM, Mar 12, and we reported
> and/or noticed the government agencies concerned to apply the clause 1 of
> the Article 15 of the Radiation Disaster Measure at 5:58AM, Mar 13.
> In order to fully secure safety, we operated the vent valve to reduce the
> pressure of the reactor containment vessels (partial release of air
> containing radioactive materials) and completed the procedure at 8:41AM,
> Mar 13,
> * We continue endeavoring to secure the safety that all we can do and
> monitoring the periphery.
> 
> ***ushima Daini Nuclear Power Station:
> Units 1 to 4: shutdown due to earthquake
> * The national government has instructed evacuation for those local
> residents within 10km radius of the periphery.
> * At present, we have decided to prepare implementing measures to reduce
> the pressure of the reactor containment vessel (partial discharge of air
> containing radioactive materials) in order to fully secure safety.
> These measures are considered to be implemented in Units 1, 2 and 3 and
> accordingly, we have reported and/or noticed the government agencies
> concerned.
> * Unit 3 has been stopped and being "nuclear reactor cooling hot stop" at
> 12:15PM.
> * The operator trapped in the crane operating console of the exhaust stack
> was transferred to the ground at 5:13PM and confirmed the death at 5:17PM.


Source and Complete Press Release: http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031304-e.html


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *USFORCES;12710601*
> LOL, was wondering what was happening to them, why don't you just close the thread then


why close the thread? just filter out the rubbish and get the proper information to people who want it.


----------



## OcCam

"LOL, was wondering what was happening to them, why don't you just close the thread then"

Probably because there is good info to be had here that is not Fear Mongering and Ignorance


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USFORCES*


LOL, was wondering what was happening to them, why don't you just close the thread then










A lot of us have been working hard to dispel any bad information and use this as a central point for news to be collected and dispersed. Much easier than each of us trying to follow dozens of different sources.


----------



## USFORCES

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


You have a valid reason for this? I initially closed the VERY FIRST news thread about the quake and immediately got several PMs politely asking that it be re-opened. I re-evaluated everything and complied, and this will also be left open as the result of this incident can determine the future of nuclear power in developed nations worldwide. I know there's a LOT of incomplete information, but that's why updates and new valid information are being posted hourly if not faster. This however does NOT mean you can spread what has already been proven to be false information, that's detrimental to the discussion.


Well the jet streams from Japan do flow twards Canada and the US thats a fact.


----------



## Pwnography

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


A lot of us have been working hard to dispel any bad information and use this as a central point for news to be collected and dispersed. Much easier than each of us trying to follow dozens of different sources.










Your Avatar holds a sweet irony to it









Your doing a great job of getting the information out there, much better than certain news networks


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USFORCES*


Well the jet streams from Japan do flow twards Canada and the US thats a fact.


Except for the fact that the map indicates a level of radiation that Chernobyl wouldn't have even been able to produce in even the worst case scenario. The entire West Coast is supposed to get 750 Rems? Yeah that's only lethal dose for more than 70% of those exposed. Completely impossible.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Pwnography*


Your Avatar holds a sweet irony to it









Your doing a great job of getting the information out there, much better than certain news networks


















Yeah I only noticed the irony in my avatar about two hours ago. I'm glad someone else saw it too.









Thanks for the media praise. I try to get multiple sources and make sure it's probable before I post up new information so that OCN stays informed on this.


----------



## c0nnection

Quote:



Originally Posted by *USFORCES*


Well the jet streams from Japan do flow twards Canada and the US thats a fact.


It's not a matter of which way surface winds are blowing at any given moment. The winds always blow toward the east from Japan. Once the plume reaches the upper atmosphere it will spread east. This could be very bad for Japan, whose own citizens will get the first blast.


----------



## Tunapiano

i am not sure if this has been posted before, every second someone is posting in this thread, hard to keep up.

Quote:



A partial meltdown is likely under way at second quake-stricken nuclear reactor, Japan's top government spokesman said Sunday.

Fuel rods were briefly exposed and radiation levels briefly rose above the legal limit at the nuclear plant where both reactors are located, said Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano.

His statement came after Japan's largest electric utility started releasing steam Sunday at the second nuclear reactor while trying to stop a meltdown that began a day earlier in another.

Tokyo Electric Co., or TEPCO, was pouring seawater and boron into its ***ushima Daiichi power plant Unit 1 reactor, whose core partially melted, when it started releasing steam at troubled nuclear reactor container vessel, Unit 3.

Critical cooling systems failed at both reactors and others.
Released steam raised radiation levels above safety limits outside the reactor, TEPCO officials said, adding they informed the government of an "emergency situation." Still, they said, there was no immediate threat to human health.


source


----------



## pjBSOD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock;12710250*
> Here is a Documentry about the Chernobyl plant. Shows scientist actually going inside the sarcophagus after the accident and stuff. Its broken into 5 parts.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHpJ7Z--QLQ


Incredibly interesting, thank you for posting!


----------



## Krymore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *USFORCES;12710694*
> Well the jet streams from Japan do flow twards Canada and the US thats a fact.


So dose the jet stream that runs across Russia. The radiation from chernobly never went east. It actually went west towards those living in eastern Europe and Finland.


----------



## Tunapiano

here is an Image close up of the top blown off the reactor on the #1 reactor.


----------



## Tunapiano

some before and after photos


----------



## Lampen

@Tuna sweet find on the reactor building photo. I've been looking for that for a while now. Also that last photo of the farmland is INSANE.


----------



## Krymore

Those are crazy pics. Even the trees are gone. I can only imagine how much force that wave packed.


----------



## Lampen

Japanese officials have revised up the strength of Friday's quake from 8.8-magnitude to 9.0. US officials had measured it at 8.9.

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698


----------



## Blameless

If you see a modern map or diagram with radiation exposure listed in Rads, it's probably a fake.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krymore;12710776*
> So dose the jet stream that runs across Russia. The radiation from chernobly never went east. It actually went west towards those living in eastern Europe and Finland.


The jet stream in the northern hemisphere does flow from west to east.

Local winds aren't always in the direction of the jet stream.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12710885*
> Japanese officials have revised up the strength of Friday's quake from 8.8-magnitude to 9.0. US officials had measured it at 8.9.
> 
> Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698


Yup, saw that a bit ago on NHK World but was waiting for confirmation.


----------



## Tunapiano

I have some more devastation images i found but i don't want to post them and get yelled at for spam so i'll just post a couple.


----------



## Lampen

God so many pictures of cities that have largely been wiped off the map.


----------



## pjBSOD

Has there actually been a meltdown yet? This is so interesting.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *E-Peen*


Has there actually been a meltdown yet? This is so interesting.


So far it's only a partial meltdown, however a lot of the experts that can actually determine that aren't IN Japan and therefore obviously can't see inside it to figure that out.


----------



## Lampen

BBC Update: The news coming from Japan remains bleak. Government spokesman Yukio Edano: "We do believe that there is a possibility that meltdown has occurred - it is inside the reactor, we can't see. However, we are acting, assuming that a meltdown has occurred and with reactor number 3 we are also assuming the possibility of a meltdown as we carry out measures."


----------



## pjBSOD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;12710986*
> So far it's only a partial meltdown, however a lot of the experts that can actually determine that aren't IN Japan and therefore obviously can't see inside it to figure that out.


Wow, this is ridiculous. I hate to sound cruel but this is incredibly interesting. I've never known much about radioactivity and all of this jazz but after watching documentaries and things I'm really just interested to see how this all pans out in the end.


----------



## Tunapiano

i assume everyone has seen video or photos of the first tsunami wave as it came ashore, if not here you go up close and personal.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12710919*
> I have some more devastation images i found but i don't want to post them and get yelled at for spam so i'll just post a couple.


Thanks for all the pics. Dont know what to say its just crazy


----------



## Tunapiano

here is what they are reporting so far about one of those pics.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tunapiano*


here is an Image close up of the top blown off the reactor on the #1 reactor.











Looks like 2x4's and sheet rock


----------



## xd_1771

So basically... a meltdown has happened.
US/Canada west coast screwed yet?

How much is 3m above water?


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


So basically... a meltdown has happened.
US/Canada west coast screwed yet?

How much is 3m above water?


dude, i dont know if your being serious or trying to scare other people. aint cool bro


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


So basically... a meltdown has happened.
US/Canada west coast screwed yet?


Not a complete meltdown; the reactor containment vessel itself is still intact, they've been repeating that many times now. Right now it just seems like you're fearmongering based on incomplete/unofficial information, so don't comment like that unless you have a factual basis for it.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tunapiano*


here is what they are reporting so far about one of those pics.











I remember seeing that story come up on NBC earlier today. Almost 10,000 missing from a single town. I knew the casualty figures were going to be high, around 10k, but if that's what's missing from a single town it could be much worse than any of us know right now.


----------



## Tunapiano

here is a photo to show how high the tsunami was.....


----------



## Krymore

Quote:



Originally Posted by *E-Peen*


Wow, this is ridiculous. I hate to sound cruel but this is incredibly interesting. I've never known much about radioactivity and all of this jazz but after watching documentaries and things I'm really just interested to see how this all pans out in the end.


What will happen is that farming or any other type of agricultural industry would be dangerous and completely inappropriate for at least 200 years. It will be at least two centuries before there is any chance the situation can change within the 1.5-mile Exclusion Zone. The reactor where the meltdown occurred, would be radio active for roughly 20,000 years before the land would will be fully safe. Radiation is powerfully stuff. Just wait for a good solar flare....


----------



## Tunapiano




----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krymore;12711094*
> What will happen is that farming or any other type of agricultural industry would be dangerous and completely inappropriate for at least 200 years. It will be at least two centuries before there is any chance the situation can change within the 1.5-mile Exclusion Zone. The reactor where the meltdown occurred, would be radio active for roughly 20,000 years before the land would will be fully safe.


Sigh.... The contamination levels that would be required would be of Chernobyl proportions for this to be true. So far from what we know the reactor might have experienced a partial meltdown and the reactor pressure vessel is not compromised so large scale contamination is unlikely at this point.


----------



## AdvanSuper

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Krymore*


What will happen is that farming or any other type of agricultural industry would be dangerous and completely inappropriate for at least *200 *years. It will be at least two centuries before there is any chance the situation can change within the 1.5-mile Exclusion Zone. The reactor where the meltdown occurred, would be radio active for roughly *20,000* years before the land would will be fully safe. Radiation is powerfully stuff. Just wait for a good solar flare....


Where do people get these numbers? And no I'm not being a smart ass or anything I'd actually like to know or if they are even that true.


----------



## Lord Xeb

Just wow...


----------



## Buzzin92

Anyone got the bit about reactor 3 being in critical yet? Just heard that it has a mix of plutoniom and uranium, which, if at meltdown, will be more catastrophic than the other reactors if they go. :/


----------



## Volvo

Local news is talking about the reactor - it's reacting.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Buzzin92*


Anyone got the bit about reactor 3 being in critical yet? Just heard that it has a mix of plutoniom and uranium, which, if at meltdown, will be more catastrophic than the other reactors if they go. :/


Reactor Three's cooling system went offline shortly after Reactor One's pumping system malfunctioned and exploded. Reactor Three is a MOX reactor which uses both plutonium and uranium. MOX fuel tends to run hotter because of lower thermal conductivity so cooling it may be a problem if all its cooling systems fail.


----------



## molino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12711061*
> So basically... a meltdown has happened.
> US/Canada west coast screwed yet?
> 
> How much is 3m above water?


it might be because of the very little sleep i had since this thread has started
but i find this immature comment very annoying


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12711180*
> Reactor Three's cooling system went offline shortly after Reactor One's pumping system malfunctioned and exploded. Reactor Three is a MOX reactor which uses both plutonium and uranium. MOX fuel tends to run hotter because of lower thermal conductivity so cooling it may be a problem if all its cooling systems fail.


So therefor its at a higher risk of meltdown.


----------



## Tunapiano




----------



## Krymore

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AdvanSuper*


Where do people get these numbers? And no I'm not being a smart ass or anything I'd actually like to know or if they are even that true.


While these are the numbers estimated for chernobly, I understand they where using a diffrent type of uranium. I was using it as a refrence. if the Japan reactor fully melted down it wont be as hazardous because its a diffrent type of reactor, uranium, ect. I asume the radiaton exposure in the surronding areas would be of similar proportions. You wouldnt want to live near the thing for a long time..... and yes you wont able to walk inside chernobly reactor for atleast 20,000 years with out dying.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Buzzin92*


So therefor its at a higher risk of meltdown.


Unfortunately. Also something of that nature might be occurring right now.

*BBC Reporting Possible fusion in two reactors - AFP, quoting government*

I'm looking into this right now in addition to any implications.


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


Unfortunately. Also something of that nature might be occurring right now.

*BBC Reporting Possible fusion in two reactors - AFP, quoting government*

I'm looking into this right now in addition to any implications.


Thats not good at all, i hope they have evacuated as far as needed incase this thing goes, as if it does.. it will be within a short time,


----------



## Squeeker The Cat

Quote:



Originally Posted by *8-Ball*


Jesus Christ...


those were my first words too...........


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Krymore*


While these are the numbers estimated for chernobly, I understand they where using a diffrent type of uranium. I was using it as a refrence. if the Japan reactor fully melted down it wont be as hazardous because its a diffrent type of reactor, uranium, ect. I asume the radiaton exposure in the surronding areas would be of similar proportions. You would want to live near the thing for a long time..... and yes you wont able to walk inside chernobly reactor for atleast 20,000 years with out dying.


The Chernobyl reactor rooms and vicinity are quite a bit different from this however. Chernobyl's reactor actually exploded and burned, basically as bad as it can possibly get. The ***ushima reactors are still contained in their vessels and have not been compromised that we know of.


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Buzzin92*


Thats not good at all, i hope they have evacuated as far as needed incase this thing goes, as if it does.. it will be within a short time,


I think you're avatar is very fitting for this thread (and a lot of reactions that are within it).


----------



## xd_1771

I don't think we should really completely ignore and exclude the possibility of the effects hitting N. America.
Also, a "partial meltdown" as they say may not be a full meltdown, but it is still a meltdown.


----------



## cbr600

xd_1771 I feel you are just trying to make people worry! My understanding is it would need to blow up and just blow the hole thing in the air. from my understand this is most likely not going to happen like 99% not going to happen and If it did its not going to kill us all like that map that is fake was saying. Yes it may not be good for us but it seems you just want to scary the **** out of people and its to be truthful irritating me to read anything you post here so move along.


----------



## FellsPoint

"Given the large quantity of irradiated nuclear fuel in the pool, the radioactivity release could be worse than the Chernobyl nuclear reactor catastrophe of 25 years ago." said Kevin Kamps, a nuclear waste specialist.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/

damn im nervous again.


----------



## pjBSOD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


I don't think we should really completely ignore and exclude the possibility of the effects hitting N. America.
Also, a "partial meltdown" as they say may not be a full meltdown, but it is still a meltdown.


You're really over exaggerating, and you're most likely frightening those who haven't been keeping up with news updates. Pretty sure you don't have any real evidence of knowing what you're talking about, so just relax.


----------



## rocstar96

Dont panic, inhale exhale..


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *FellsPoint*


â€œGiven the large quantity of irradiated nuclear fuel in the pool, the radioactivity release could be worse than the Chernobyl nuclear reactor catastrophe of 25 years ago.â€ said Kevin Kamps, a nuclear waste specialist.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/

damn im nervous again.


Don't be. If both reactors have experienced a meltdown(partial or otherwise) they are thus far contained. Short of an act of God there are too many things that would have to go wrong to bring about an event greater than Chernobyl.


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:



Originally Posted by *E-Peen*


You're really over exaggerating, and you're most likely frightening those who haven't been keeping up with news updates. Pretty sure you don't have any real evidence of knowing what you're talking about, so just relax.



Quote:



EDIT 0426 GMT: Japanese government spokesman Yukio Edano says radioactive meltdowns may have occurred in two reactors at the plant - AFP.


It's on the first post of this thread.

What's next...

Also so long as the term "partial *meltdown*" has the word "meltdown" in it... it counts as a meltdown.


----------



## Flack88

I think Japan is in a serious panic, from what I have just seen 5 reactor's are basically in meltdown (they are out of controll). I just watched the bbc live in the uk. I fail to see how they can control 5 reactors without cooling.......at least on a mechanical level!

Also how the hell can they say that the 1st reactor wasnt ruptured.....That explosion moved at least 6ft of concrete wall....For those of you that dont know explosives thats a hell of a lotta power!


----------



## FellsPoint

ok, I just have bad anxiety.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88;12711584*
> I think Japan is in a serious panic, from what I have just seen 5 reactor's are basically in meltdown (they are out of controll). I just watched the bbc live in the uk. I fail to see how they can control 5 reactors without cooling.......at least on a mechanical level!
> 
> Also how the hell can they say that the 1st reactor wasnt ruptured.....That explosion moved at least 6ft of concrete wall....For those of you that dont know explosives thats a hell of a lotta power!


The actual vessels withstand 2000 PSI on a normal day and can take a lot more than that for safety reasons. Think of them as the Black Boxes of Nuclear Power Plants


----------



## Flack88

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

Why in the latest updates are Russia looking for radiation in the far east? Sounds fishy to me...

If i were japan i hope to hell they built all the controls for the reactor core underground and not in that concrete frame!


----------



## Vowels

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88;12711635*
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698
> 
> Why in the latest updates are Russia looking for radiation in the far east? Sounds fishy to me...


So a country can't take precautionary measures without it being a conspiracy? You took a leap in logic by attributing cautionary procedures as confirmation of a problem.


----------



## xd_1771

The radiation couldn't have hit the Russian far east already
If so we'd already be hearing news about it hitting Hokkaido


----------



## Flack88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vowels;12711660*
> So a country can't take precautionary measures without it being a conspiracy? You took a leap in logic by attributing cautionary procedures as confirmation of a problem.


Why would they do that unless they thought it was a serious problem? Btw its not a conspiracy its a natural disaster.


----------



## Vowels

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88;12711693*
> Why would they do that unless they thought it was a serious problem? Btw its not a conspiracy its a natural disaster.


Conspiracy probably wasn't the right word. The point is, the Russians are there just as a cautionary thing. There is no indication that there's any real danger at this time.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88;12711584*
> I think Japan is in a serious panic, from what I have just seen 5 reactor's are basically in meltdown (they are out of controll). I just watched the bbc live in the uk. I fail to see how they can control 5 reactors without cooling.......at least on a mechanical level!
> 
> Also how the hell can they say that the 1st reactor wasnt ruptured.....That explosion moved at least 6ft of concrete wall....For those of you that dont know explosives thats a hell of a lotta power!


The actual vessels withstand 2000 PSI on a normal day and can take a lot more than that for safety reasons. Think of them as the Black Boxes of Nuclear Power Plants


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Washington state has already dispatched people to test the waters on the coast and take radiation samples. No radiation found.


----------



## Flack88

I rest my case? Seriously this is not good in the slightest!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12711737*
> The actual vessels withstand 2000 PSI on a normal day and can take a lot more than that for safety reasons. Think of them as the Black Boxes of Nuclear Power Plants


How the hell do you keep the core cool when half the structure needed to cool is gone?! You cant pour Bouron and sea water on it forever!

Also how do you explain Ceasium being found outside the containment vessle? That stuff is made within the nuclear reaction and cannot escape unless the containment vessle is breached!


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blue Destroyer;12711741*
> Washington state has already dispatched people to test the waters on the coast and take radiation samples. No radiation found.


That's good then, but I doubt it'd be here that fast.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12711760*
> That's good then, but I doubt it'd be here that fast.


I don't think we will but its cool that they are testing


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

unlike chernobyl , Here the reactor is relatively sound and undamaged, it's just a matter working out how to cool the thing, which I'm sure the greatest nuclear eggheads on the planet are advising on as we speak.

seawater and the boronic acid should get the job done.


----------



## robbo2

How can the reactor be relatively sound and undamaged if they have confirmed a partial meltdown?


----------



## imadude10

I'm glad to hear they have the situation under control for the most part. Japan isn't having a good week...

To the person above me, you should read the thread. Meltdown is when the plates get too hot and release.... I'll just quote the OP, which you should have read...

Quote:



What happens during a partial meltdown is that one or more of these plates overheats and some of the fission fragments enter the cooling water. Since water is also the moderator, this is a bad thing as it feeds the thermal fission process. When this happens they manually add poison (boron-tetraflouride) to the cooling water to keep escaped fission fragments from having more thermal fission reaction (boron absorbs thermal neutrons much easier than uranium).


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *robbo2*


How can the reactor be relatively sound and undamaged if they have confirmed a partial meltdown?


A meltdown is when the plant can not properly cool the reactor core.(that is a very vague description but it has been explained much better by others who know more about this than me.) The reactors themselves are still relatively undamaged aside from the the explosion at reactor #1, it is the cooling systems that are damaged that are causing all the issues.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *robbo2*


How can the reactor be relatively sound and undamaged if they have confirmed a partial meltdown?


Cooling systems are damaged, not the reactor itself.


----------



## 53977

First link is a ' detailed interactive graphic on the explosion at the ***ushima nuclear plant. It takes you through what happened step by step.'
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...e-reactor.html

This is second link provides interactive map of the places damaged by the quake and tsunami.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/flas...map/index.html

http://www.news.com.au/world/magnitu...-1226019903430

Update news that gets regularly updated.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Didn't the head of the us nuclear power team say that using seawater is a last ditch effort to save it from having a full meltdown? If seawater is the last resort and cooling levels are still dropping, how is it "ok"?


----------



## rocstar96

What happens if it asplodes?


----------



## 53977




----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blue Destroyer*


Didn't the head of the us nuclear power team say that using seawater is a last ditch effort to save it from having a full meltdown? If seawater is the last resort and cooling levels are still dropping, how is it "ok"?


Considering fresh water is the normal coolant it is hardly a "last ditch effort." It is probably going to effectively destroy the reactors once this is all done because of the salt but they were set to be decommissioned soon anyway so it really doesn't matter. Claims like that are nothing more than sensationalist journalism.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rocstar96*


What happens if it asplodes?


This is exactly what I would like to know. It's not very comforting hearing that thing about Washington state a few pages back. Or whatever it was that said that this could end up bigger than Chernobyl.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *scyy*


Considering fresh water is the normal coolant it is hardly a "last ditch effort." It is probably going to effectively destroy the reactors once this is all done but they were set to be decommissioned soon anyway so it really doesn't matter. Claims like that are nothing more than sensationalist journalism.


Sorry, but I have to disagree, sensational journalism??? This was the leading nuclear power "guru" for the us on cnn. That's hardly someone who would make up facts. If he says it, I have to believe that he is right.


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


This is exactly what I would like to know. It's not very comforting hearing that thing about Washington state a few pages back. Or whatever it was that said that this could end up bigger than Chernobyl.










Read all of damric's posts in this thread, he pretty much explained exactly why this has *NO* chance of being even near Chernobyl scale.


----------



## -Apocalypse-

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


This is exactly what I would like to know. It's not very comforting hearing that thing about Washington state a few pages back. Or whatever it was that said that this could end up bigger than Chernobyl.










Only realistic way this ends up bigger than Chernobyl is if China/Russia/US decides to use a nuke to... well... stop a nuke? Somehow, that's borderline unrealistic from my perspective.....


----------



## Villosa

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blue Destroyer*


Sorry, but I have to disagree, sensational journalism??? This was the leading nuclear power "guru" for the us on cnn. That's hardly someone who would make up facts. If he says it, I have to believe that he is right.


The worse thing you can do is believe what ONE person says...


----------



## CStylen

Just heard on BBC radio that radiation readings were now above legal limits. Something about being exposed to a years worth of radiation in an hour. Apparently the Japanese government said it was still safe though? Did anyone hear that?


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Villosa*


The worse thing you can do is believe what ONE person says...


If you don't believe the experts who are you to believe???


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blue Destroyer*


Sorry, but I have to disagree, sensational journalism??? This was the leading nuclear power "guru" for the us on cnn. That's hardly someone who would make up facts. If he says it, I have to believe that he is right.


It is a last ditch effort in the sense that the cooling systems aren't working and this is the best solution. As already said though fresh water *IS* the normal coolant, salt water will rust and likely ruin the reactors but it will work just as well once they get it more under control.


----------



## AdvanSuper

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blue Destroyer*


If you don't believe the experts who are you to believe???


So if one expert said to jump from a bridge would you do it?


----------



## redhat_ownage

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AdvanSuper*


So if one expert said to jump from a bridge would you do it?


in a heart beat


----------



## Toransu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blue Destroyer*


If you don't believe the experts who are you to believe???


I can't call it credible that you mention a "guru"/"expert" and that he was on the news, but no real name or background on the person.


----------



## theonedub

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blue Destroyer*


If you don't believe the experts who are you to believe???


4 out of 5 dentists rec sugarless gum. Experts have opinions too, they aren't always right


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blue Destroyer*


If you don't believe the experts who are you to believe???


You listen to the consensus or majority of relevant experts who are talking about their own field. Don't take the words of one "expert" at face value. Often times the people quoted in news as experts have agendas they are pushing and often times slant or twist the truth to fit that agenda.(Not saying that about this particular person on cnn but just the claim of "experts" in general.)


----------



## 8-Ball

So now there are *6* reactors in trouble...


----------



## robbo2

Japan's government has warned there is a risk of another explosion at the ***ushima nuclear power plant.


----------



## Krymore

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Toransu*


I can't call it credible that you mention a "guru"/"expert" and that he was on the news, but no real name or background on the person.


Bill Nye said it on CNN.










With a tie like that ... he cant be wrong


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Toransu*


I can't call it credible that you mention a "guru"/"expert" and that he was on the news, but no real name or background on the person.


Lol those are my words. I didn't write down his name or title sorry. Lol. Did anyone else see bill nye in cnn about 5 mins ago?


----------



## Krymore

Yeah he was talking about the reactors.


----------



## damric

Ugh, I woke up. I couldn't sleep knowing that y'all are spreading fear and panic









Again, a partial meltdown is when the alloy cladding surrounding the fuel pellets becomes compromised in the least. What typically happens is they slightly blister. Once any fission fragments get detected in the cooling water, you call it a partial meltdown.

What you need to understand is that these reactors _are_ shut down. Chernobyl was never able to shut down because the control rods melted before they could be inserted for shutdown.

But even though it is shutdown, there is still a tremendous amount of decay heat from fission products. This decay heat does dissipate very fast, on a logarithmic scale. It's most important during the immediate days/hours after the shutdown to keep the fuel plates under water and with some coolant flow.

Explosion is not possible, not nuclear explosion at least







These reactors use thermal fission fuels (typically U-235). They only absorb slow, thermal neutrons. It's not going to explode like a fast neutron chain reaction in fast fission, because U-235 cannot absorb fast neutrons. It's like a ping-pong ball bouncing colliding with a bowling ball, it just won't stick, it bounces off.

Seawater is considered last resort, because once you use it, it fouls the entire coolant system, meaning it's time to build a new reactor. Of course, once you have experienced a partial meltdown of a fuel plate, you pretty much call it done as well.


----------



## Krymore

Thanks damric, I love your information. Always informative.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Just thought I would say this..im not saying that I think its gonna blow. Not by a long shot but I was under the impression that when they use seawater it means all other forms of cooling have failed and considering its dropped from 1m of rod out if water to 3m, doesn't that mean its failing?


----------



## SamuelL421

Firstly, a big thank you to Lampen for keeping this thread rolling and up to date - excellent job sir!

Second, another thank you goes out to damric, really great info and explanations.

_Now, a question..._

Given the current situation, what's likely to happen next? (I ask this knowing any answer is just a shot in the dark, but still the news/media seem to have exactly 0 grasp on this situation so perhaps some info from someone more knowledgeable... damric, I'm looking at you







)


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:



Originally Posted by *damric*


Ugh, I woke up. I couldn't sleep knowing that y'all are spreading fear and panic









Again, a partial meltdown is when the alloy cladding surrounding the fuel pellets becomes compromised in the least. What typically happens is they slightly blister. Once any fission fragments get detected in the cooling water, you call it a partial meltdown.

What you need to understand is that these reactors _are_ shut down. Chernobyl was never able to shut down because the control rods melted before they could be inserted for shutdown.

But even though it is shutdown, there is still a tremendous amount of decay heat from fission products. This decay heat does dissipate very fast, on a logarithmic scale. It's most important during the immediate days/hours after the shutdown to keep the fuel plates under water and with some coolant flow.

Explosion is not possible, not nuclear explosion at least







These reactors use thermal fission fuels (typically U-235). They only absorb slow, thermal neutrons. It's not going to explode like a fast neutron chain reaction in fast fission, because U-235 cannot absorb fast neutrons. It's like a ping-pong ball bouncing colliding with a bowling ball, it just won't stick, it bounces off.

Seawater is considered last resort, because once you use it, it fouls the entire coolant system, meaning it's time to build a new reactor. Of course, once you have experienced a partial meltdown of a fuel plate, you pretty much call it done as well.


This should be put on the first page. And even though I read everything....*BUT OMG IS NUKULAR AND COULD GO BOOM ANY TIME NOW! AND THEN THE RADATION WOULD SPREAD TO THE WEST COAST AND WE'D ALL GET SICK!*


----------



## the.FBI

+rep for Damric and all his helpful information.


----------



## scyy

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavendar/...0/meltdown.wav


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:



Originally Posted by *scyy*


http://www.fortunecity.com/lavendar/...0/meltdown.wav


LOL. "...an unrequested fission surplus". I'm still laughing at that.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Like the others, I must thank you damric for giving us straight facts to dispel the excess fear surrounding the reactor(s). A lot of things can still happen at this point but definitely NOT anything as disastrous as Chernobyl.


----------



## damric

edited by damric. nevermind.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *damric*


1) I wish the news media would stop calling the fuel plates, fuel rods. _There are_ control rods, made of hafnium. These are fully inserted to shut down the reactor, and are adjusted by the operator to control the fission reaction during operation (shim-in, shim-out).

2) If they mean that a single control rod is sticking out because it cannot insert due to structural damage, it's not such a big deal. Several of these control rods are designed to fail and still be able to fully shut down the reactor. Once the core gets flooded with boron-tetraflouride (a fission poison), it's going to take more than a few stuck rods to bring the reactor from a subcritical state.

3) If they mean that fuel plates are exposed at all (1m or 3m makes no difference), this bad, but not awful. Those fuel plates will likely melt due to decay heat (1000F causes damage if I recall). Of course, even if they melt down entirely, and end up in the bottom of the reactor vessel, they can not fission due to negative reactivity of control rods and poison. They are going to get submerged and cool off one way or another











Thanks. Well worded response. Helped me understand it a little better


----------



## SamuelL421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric;12712917*
> 1) I wish the news media would stop calling the fuel plates, fuel rods. _There are_ control rods, made of hafnium. These are fully inserted to shut down the reactor, and are adjusted by the operator to control the fission reaction during operation (shim-in, shim-out).
> 
> 2) If they mean that a single control rod is sticking out because it cannot insert due to structural damage, it's not such a big deal. Several of these control rods are designed to fail and still be able to fully shut down the reactor. Once the core gets flooded with boron-tetraflouride (a fission poison), it's going to take more than a few stuck rods to bring the reactor from a subcritical state.
> 
> 3) If they mean that fuel plates are exposed at all (1m or 3m makes no difference), this bad, but not awful. Those fuel plates will likely melt due to decay heat (1000F causes damage if I recall). Of course, even if they melt down entirely, and end up in the bottom of the reactor vessel, they can not fission due to negative reactivity of control rods and poison. They are going to get submerged and cool off one way or another










Hmm... So all of the current media drama is essentially over nothing, yes? If so, very good news. God I hate American news networks - they spew a continual stream of BS for all those willing to consume it (sadly many, many people).


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SamuelL421;12712955*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm... So all of the current media drama is essentially over nothing, yes? If so, very good news. God I hate American news networks - they spew a continual stream of BS for all those willing to consume it (sadly many, many people).


That's why a lot of people here are using BBC and Al-Jazeera (because regardless of what preconceived notions or whatever you might think about AJ, it is a good news source).


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SamuelL421;12712955*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm... So all of the current media drama is essentially over nothing, yes? If so, very good news. God I hate American news networks - they spew a continual stream of BS for all those willing to consume it (sadly many, many people).


Well there is still a possibility of radiation in the close vicinity of the plants but the fear of it having world wide effects is extremely unlikely. As already said the reactors are off, it is just cooling the excess heat that is the issue. At least thats what I am taking from all of this, still a lot of conflicting information as of yet.


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurt1288;12712970*
> That's why a lot of people here are using BBC and Al-Jazeera (because regardless of what preconceived notions or whatever you might think about AJ, it is a good news source).


"but, but, but they are associated with terrorists!!"


----------



## RotaryKnight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurt1288;12712970*
> That's why a lot of people here are using BBC and Al-Jazeera (because regardless of what preconceived notions or whatever you might think about AJ, it is a good news source).


I havent watch a single American news channel for information on the quake in japan, it has been all Aljeezera, and some BBC.

A HUGE thanks for Damric for his knowledge!!


----------



## damric

I do watch cnn and other networks quite a bit. Honestly I have seen about 80% fear/hype on this subject. There were a few articles on cnn.com that were fairly factual. The intelligent person can usually figure out sensationalism. Unfortunately there's plenty of naive people out there in the general public, and plenty of people willing to make a dollar spreading sensationalism to them.

Like I said before, I never felt like my job as a reactor operator was dangerous. Our worst fear was a bad lube oil fire in the engine room, but we could evacuate and activate AFFF sprinklers or HALON if needed. My current job at the steel mill is way more dangerous, 99 ways to die in every direction I turn my head.

A very good cnn.com article with an excellent diagram of the reactor system. Unfortunately they misnomer it as a "boiling water" reactor, which it is not. The boiling occurs in the boiler, on the secondary loop side (see diagram). Boiling in the reactor itself would be bad, bad.


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric;12713018*
> I do watch cnn and other networks quite a bit. Honestly I have seen about 80% fear/hype on this subject. There were a few articles on cnn.com that were fairly factual. The intelligent person can usually figure out sensationalism. Unfortunately there's plenty of naive people out there in the general public.
> 
> Like I said before, I never felt like my job as a reactor operator was dangerous. Our worst fear was a bad lube oil fire in the engine room, but we could evacuate and activate AFFF sprinklers or HALON if needed. My current job at the steel mill is way more dangerous, 99 ways to die in every direction I turn my head.


So when you joined the navy you were able to enlist to work specifically with reactors? Or was there some luck that you were able to get that job and training?


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric;12713018*
> I do watch cnn and other networks quite a bit. Honestly I have seen about 80% fear/hype on this subject. There were a few articles on cnn.com that were fairly factual. The intelligent person can usually figure out sensationalism. Unfortunately there's plenty of naive people out there in the general public.
> 
> Like I said before, I never felt like my job as a reactor operator was dangerous. Our worst fear was a bad lube oil fire in the engine room, but we could evacuate and activate AFFF sprinklers or HALON if needed. My current job at the steel mill is way more dangerous, 99 ways to die in every direction I turn my head.


i was prob exposed to more raditation in my job as a radar operator then you were working in a reactor room. No suppose to stand within 160 degrees of the front of the radar and we were in fox holes right infront of the radar with it on and no one realized it for 36 hours. We had 2 weeks of raditation tests. army acually takes that crap seriously. if i ever get cancer, it will be connected to my service with approval on the first try.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blue Destroyer;12713055*
> i was prob exposed to more raditation in my job as a radar operator then you were working in a reactor room. No suppose to stand within 160 degrees of the front of the radar and we were in fox holes right infront of the radar with it on and no one realized it for 36 hours. We had 2 weeks of raditation tests. army acually takes that crap seriously. if i ever get cancer, it will be connected to my service with approval on the first try.


100% agree. I probably didn't get half a REM total from all the time I spent working around that stuff, including working inside the reactor compartment during maintenance shutdowns. We tracked our exposure with some pretty cool dosimetry devices.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scyy;12713041*
> So when you joined the navy you were able to enlist to work specifically with reactors? Or was there some luck that you were able to get that job and training?


You choose, but you must qualify. Talk to a recruiter. They will need you to take the ASVAB, and the NFQT. These are tests that measure your ability to learn new things, and determine if you have certain aptitude areas. I was lucky and scored high enough to qualify for Nuclear Machinist Mate, Nuclear Electrician, or Nuclear Electronics technician. I chose nuke-ET, because they are the ones that get to shim rods just like Homer Simpson








If you already have a degree, there's also Nuke officers, and boy do they get paid.


----------



## c0nnection

Thank you, Damric for your informative posts. +1rep


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric;12713090*
> You choose, but you must qualify. Talk to a recruiter. They will need you to take the ASVAB, and the NFQT. These are tests that measure your ability to learn new things, and determine if you have certain aptitude areas. I was lucky and scored high enough to qualify for Nuclear Machinist Mate, Nuclear Electrician, or Nuclear Electronics technician. I chose nuke-ET, because they are the ones that get to shim rods just like Homer Simpson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you already have a degree, there's also Nuke officers, and boy do they get paid.


Alright, good to know. I've been interested in doing something like that for awhile but I've wanted to make sure I can get into a specialized field like that and not get stuck doing menial labor.


----------



## kurt1288

So I decided to read the most up-to-date stories on CNN, AJ, BBC, and Fox and compare them (because I'm bored).

*CNN:*
The article starts with "As Japan buckles from a powerful earthquake and a devastating tsunami, residents on Sunday hoped they are spared an even more catastrophic fate: a widespread release of radiation from damaged nuclear plants.". Some powerful words used there.

Their description of a meltdown: "A meltdown is a catastrophic failure of the reactor core, with a potential for widespread radiation release."

The article does mention the quote by Yukio Edano (Chief Cabinet Secretary) in which he talks about the possibility of a meltdown already having occured inside the reactor, although they can't know for sure right now because it's inside.

*AlJazeera*: 
They say that Yukio Edano said that a *partial* meltdown may have already occured.

Their description of a meltdown: "A meltdown refers to a very serious collapse of a power plant's systems and its ability to manage temperatures. A complete meltdown would release uranium and dangerous byproducts into the environment that can pose serious health risks."

The article talks a little more about how it started/what caused it to begin with (the cooling problem), the explosion and it's probably cause (hydrogen gas), and similar.

*BBC:*
Actually very short, almost bullet points, on what's happening with the reactors. Mentioned the possibility of a meltdown already having occurred. Mention the radiation levels being above "permissible limits". They did mention the part about part of the rods being exposed. This article actually seemed to be the most calm.

*Fox:* 
Well first thing I noticed was the headline on the main page, "URGENT: Risk of New Blast at Japan Nuke Plant, 'Partial Meltdown' Likely". The only site to mention anything about a "new blast". The first paragraph also mentions the Japanese official's comment on the possibility of a meltdown having occurred, but then they add that "there is risk of another explosion at the plant.". None of the other articles said anything about another explosion so either Fox is downright lying with their quote, or the other 3 sites are omitting that part.

They mention that radiation limits had risen above "legal limits" but has since gone down significantly.

They do mention that the explosion was from hydrogen gas.

They even have someone come in and compare it to Chernobyl, but say that it's unlikely that this will be a "Chernobyl-style meltdown".

Honestly, the Fox News article wasn't that bad. The problem with it was that it was by far the longest and filled with a lot of material relating to the earthquake and tsunami (as opposed to the other 3 articles which had considerably less on those). If you actually read the entire article it says much of what the others do in the same way.

*Overall:*
BBC was fastest to read and easiest to get the main points on what's happening. AJ was probably the most well written. CNN was nothing special, but nothing bad really. Fox's article was just too long and the part that most people would read, the beginning, was a little too dramatic. All the articles eventually mentioned the same points, with Fox having something the others didn't. It was just how they were presented.


----------



## damric

Quote:



Originally Posted by *scyy*


Alright, good to know. I've been interested in doing something like that for awhile but I've wanted to make sure I can get into a specialized field like that and not get stuck doing menial labor.


Oh there's plenty of menial and labor







But honestly if you are used to working hard already, you will probably think of it as a breeze. Things unavoidable no matter what job you get in the navy are: cleaning, painting, cleaning, painting, (if you can't get it clean, try painting it), and standing those reactor plant watches gets tedious as well. But the trade-off is you will go see things that the average person never gets to see. As a West Coast Sailor I got to go to Australia, Singapore, Guam, Bahrain, Qatar, Dubai, Hawaii, Canada, Mexico, and around South America. You never have to worry about job security, housing, utilities, food, or health insurance, as these are all free. Much of your gross pay is also tax-exempt. Even if you decide not to do nuclear power, there's plenty of other extremely technical jobs in the navy to choose from.


----------



## HanShotFirst

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Acroma*


......... I live right in its path......


Me too! Anyone know where I can get Potassium Iodide?


----------



## 8-Ball

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *HanShotFirst*   Me too! Anyone know where I can get Potassium Iodide?  
   Amazon.com: WORLD ORGANICS Liquid Potassium Iodide 2 oz: Health & Personal Care


----------



## srsdude

boom


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *damric*


Oh there's plenty of menial and labor







But honestly if you are used to working hard already, you will probably think of it as a breeze. Things unavoidable no matter what job you get in the navy are: cleaning, painting, cleaning, painting, (if you can't get it clean, try painting it), and standing those reactor plant watches gets tedious as well. But the trade-off is you will go see things that the average person never gets to see. As a West Coast Sailor I got to go to Australia, Singapore, Guam, Bahrain, Qatar, Dubai, Hawaii, Canada, Mexico, and around South America. You never have to worry about job security, housing, utilities, food, or health insurance, as these are all free. Much of your gross pay is also tax-exempt. Even if you decide not to do nuclear power, there's plenty of other extremely technical jobs in the navy to choose from.


Once again, good to know. I knew there would still be some menial work to be done no matter what but to have a more specialized position would be why I would want to get into it you know.


----------



## 8-Ball

Thousands evacuated as Japan fears nuclear meltdown is *imminent *following blast at plant

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...#ixzz1GT8guiOr


----------



## xd_1771

So now it's imminent and inevitable!?
Where's the guy with the "o noes" avatar

Or is that just a repeat of already said
140,000 were evacuated and that was much earlier today


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *8-Ball*


Thousands evacuated as Japan fears nuclear meltdown is *imminent *following blast at plant

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...#ixzz1GT8guiOr


They are just using information we have had for over a day and sensationalizing it. They aren't talking about a new blast, they are still talking about the one from yesterday and conjecturing that because of it a melt down *will* occur.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


So now it's imminent and inevitable!?
Where's the guy with the "o noes" avatar

Or is that just a repeat of already said
140,000 were evacuated and that was much earlier today


They are just repeating what we already have heard, nothing new is in that article.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *damric*


Oh there's plenty of menial and labor







But honestly if you are used to working hard already, you will probably think of it as a breeze. Things unavoidable no matter what job you get in the navy are: cleaning, painting, cleaning, painting, (if you can't get it clean, try painting it), and standing those reactor plant watches gets tedious as well. But the trade-off is you will go see things that the average person never gets to see. As a West Coast Sailor I got to go to Australia, Singapore, Guam, Bahrain, Qatar, Dubai, Hawaii, Canada, Mexico, and around South America. You never have to worry about job security, housing, utilities, food, or health insurance, as these are all free. Much of your gross pay is also tax-exempt. Even if you decide not to do nuclear power, there's plenty of other extremely technical jobs in the navy to choose from.


Yea one thing though, 99% of recruiters will lie about anything to get u to sign in. Like my job, I was told id be able to get jobs at airports for radar operations and the only job I was qualified to do when I got back out was army field artillery radar operator. Make sure you research your jobs(mos) carefully so you know what you qualify for when u get out. My brother in law lucked out. He is a blackhawk mechanic and recently his chief retired. He got approached with a job offer that is being held for him for 20 more months when he gets out of the army. He will go from making 30k a year to making 140+k a year. Some jobs pay well when you get out, some the only thing you are qualified for after you get out are landscaper or janitor(your other 2 hidden mos that you are not told about) lol


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blue Destroyer*


*Yea one thing though, 99% of recruiters will lie about anything to get u to sign in.* Like my job, I was told id be able to get jobs at airports for radar operations and the only job I was qualified to do when I got back out was army field artillery radar operator. Make sure you research your jobs(mos) carefully so you know what you qualify for when u get out. My brother in law lucked out. He is a blackhawk mechanic and recently his chief retired. He got approached with a job offer that is being held for him for 20 more months when he gets out of the army. He will go from making 30k a year to making 140+k a year. Some jobs pay well when you get out, some the only thing you are qualified for after you get out are landscaper or janitor(your other 2 hidden mos that you are not told about) lol


That's the main reason I'm so hesitant to consider it. I've heard way to many stories of lying recruiters. That and I have certain views about what the US has been doing militarily recently but that is another topic for another time. I'm not exactly in a bad position atm either, it just sounds like it would be interesting.


----------



## Ocnewb

I should probably order some Potassium Iodine.


----------



## damric

Quote:



Originally Posted by *scyy*


That's the main reason I'm so hesitant to consider it. I've heard way to many stories of lying recruiters. That and I have certain views about what the US has been doing militarily recently but that is another topic for another time. I'm not exactly in a bad position atm either, it just sounds like it would be interesting.


Well, I'm no recruiter, and I've been out since 2006. I won't BS you. Nuclear Power School is grueling and attrition is over 50%. When I go to hell and Satan asks me if I'd rather spend my eternity at nuke school or training with the navy seals at BUDS, I'd pick navy seal without a second thought. But on the other hand, I'm glad I have that experience under my belt. Navy nukes are quite employable


----------



## Hellknight

Lol, all i see here is panic spreading bullshiet.
I actually live in japan and while is true the there was fear because the reactor was getting hot, the situation was controlled long ago. What "exploded" was the water vapor. There was only 1 reactor in danger and NO THERE WONT BE CHERNOBYL STYLE KAZOOM!. - Sorry to burst your bubbles.


----------



## Dom_sufc

Some of you guys need to calm down regarding the meltdown. There's just been an expert on the BBC News, and to summarise the Meltdown is not a huge threat.

- The reactors have been off-line for 3 days
- There's barely any radioactivity left when compared with operational amount
- The fuel housing and inner chambers of R3 are still very much intact
- Following a meltdown, the fuel would likely heat through it's casing and into the ground, where much of it's energy would be absorbed into the floor
- The initial explosion apparently wasn't even that bad, and the building is DESIGNED to explode outwardly in such a fashion, to prevent damage to the reactor. It was caused by gasses PURPOSELY released. And may happen again. Obviously the explosion wasn't desirable, but it wasn't pertaining directly to the integrity of the reactor.
- This is way past Chernobyl, as the reactors have been off-line for 3 days. Chernobyl happened at a plant already deemed unsafe by western standards, in an OPERATING reactor. The power production went from 25% to 500% in 3 seconds during this incident
- Lastly and most importantly, he said a large devastating explosion releasing clouds of gas is very unlikely, nearing impossible at this stage.


----------



## Hawk777th

Just gonna tell you guys once and once only, you should consider getting some Potassium Iodide. It is something to protect your thyroid and body from radiation. I am a cancer survivor and understand how deadly and poisonous even a small amount of radiation is let alone if you were to inhale particles.

NISA is reporting that there is Nuclear Material exposed on the core of #1 and now Japanese authority's are warning that another explosion is possible at another reactor.

The winds will carry the radioactive material around the world and it will affect everyone. This supplement cant hurt you and isnt a bad idea to have on hand or take a couple. The winds could bring the material to America in less than 36hrs if it gets into the jet stream.

Not trying to fearmonger just thought I would give you all a heads up. Amazon is selling it like crazy right now.


----------



## Dirtyworks

Have the 2 posters prior to Hawk really read the thread in its entirety? I doubt it.
EDIT: I think Dom has.


----------



## phaseshift

Quote:



Originally Posted by *scyy*


That's the main reason I'm so hesitant to consider it. I've heard way to many stories of lying recruiters. That and I have certain views about what the US has been doing militarily recently but that is another topic for another time. I'm not exactly in a bad position atm either, it just sounds like it would be interesting.


The military is awesome if you can keep up with all the BS that goes around. I was a combat engineer handled everything from det cord to c4, to clearing minefields to constructing forward operating bases. As well as being attached to a Recon Platoon to sweep the roads of Iraq for IEDs and weapons caches. Loved every second of both deployments to Iraq and hated every day I was back in the states, because being back in the states meant we weren't doing anything except training and blowing stuff up and too much time for BS to come down the pipe, I would have rather been deployed.

In the end I had the opportunity to reenlist for another 70k but I wanted to go back to school + I wasn't going to make the Marines my career so I'm going to school now. But if I were to get called back, I'd go in a heartbeat.


----------



## petran79

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scyy;12707746*
> No one said it is inherently safe. I said the fact that there hasn't been a major catastrophe from the plant as of yet after such a major disaster if anything shows that nuclear energy is relatively safe. Aside from the cooling failure at reactor #3 everyone is talking about they have it pretty much under control. This has been an incredibly unlikely chain of events that have lead up to this. Even if the plant were to melt down it still wouldn't be a sign of how unsafe nuclear power is, it would be a sign that the 5th largest earthquake ever recorded along with several tsunamis is unsafe because 99.9999% of the time when there isn't some insane natural disaster occurring it is essentially 100% safe.


In countries that have good infrastructure and security measures to harness nuclear energy it is safe. Though nuclear waste, leaks and radioactivity around the plant is a serious issue that occurs everywhere.

But when countries with no experience or countries that have archaic reactors from the cold war era insist on nuclear energy, then there is a problem.

Btw this is the first nuclear accident to be caused by natural event and not human error.


----------



## Ikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12710810*
> some before and after photos


It's heart tearing to watch these images. Really gives you some perspective.
To add that there is not enough drinking water, food and and fuel. It's hell on earth.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric;12713018*
> 
> A very good cnn.com article with an excellent diagram of the reactor system. Unfortunately they misnomer it as a "boiling water" reactor, which it is not. The boiling occurs in the boiler, on the secondary loop side (see diagram). Boiling in the reactor itself would be bad, bad.


There has been a mixup. It's a PWR in the picture.
There are some errors in the article, but these ***ushima units are BWR's.









Eating iodine pills for no real reason can't be a good thing and timing is everything? I would wait for official instructions.


----------



## robchaos

Holy crap just reading all the articles associated with this disaster and learning about all this stuff is really interesting.
Just browsing news feeds and other message boards I have seen reports ranging from "everythings peachy" to "prepare for massive fallout."

IMO I think even if anything major has, or will happen, there is not much chance that we will know about it.

While most of the conspiracy theories I have read are very far fetched and not feasible, I still would not put it past governments and TEPCO (nuclear operater) to downplay events to prevent mass panic and limit liability.

for some interesting reading check out the thread here there seems to be some knowledgable people who delve further in depth into the MOX fuel being used in the 3rd Reactor, the one currently in danger (or already in the process) of meltdown. But of course you have to weed through some wackos talking about military created strategic tsunamis and earthquake machines (possible but very unfeasible).

Watching all the news coverage of the Tsunami and just seeing what these people are going through breaks my heart. Best wishes and prayers to anyone who is over in Japan.


----------



## Lampen

Morning everyone. Good to see damric is back and answering questions. I'll get to work updating the OP with relevant information.


----------



## robchaos

I don't know if this is useful but here is a link to tepcos news page, and also a press release covering the states of their 10 total reactors at ***ushima 1 & 2
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031308-e.html (might have to reload a few times to get to it)
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/index-e.html (inaccessible right now probably due to very high traffic)


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Was just watching the news today & they said & here is a link to a ton of images of the wreckage. Make the page full size to see fullsize pics

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42034875/displaymode/1247?beginSlide=1
Quote:


> Japan was fighting to contain what could be the world's worst nuclear disaster in 25 years with the government warning there could be an explosion at a second reactor crippled by Friday's devastating earthquake.
> 
> More than 170,000 people have been evacuated from the area around two nuclear power plants in ***ushima as a precaution, officials said Sunday.
> 
> It was also confirmed that 22 people had been contaminated by radiation.
> 
> There is believed to have been a partial meltdown of the fuel rods following an explosion and leak Saturday from the No. 1 reactor at the ***ushima Dai-ichi power plant, 150 miles north of Tokyo.
> 
> And engineers were pumping in seawater in an attempt to prevent the same thing from happening at Dai-ichi's No. 3 reactor.
> 
> "At the risk of raising further public concern, we cannot rule out the possibility of an explosion," Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told a news briefing.
> 
> ..He said if there was an explosion, "there would be no significant impact on human health."
> 
> Edano said neither ***ushima Dai-ichi reactor was near the point of complete meltdown, and he was confident of escaping the worst scenarios.
> 
> A meltdown at the No. 3 reactor could be more serious than at the other reactors because it is fuelled by both plutonium and uranium, The others have only uranium fuel.


----------



## robchaos

An interesting article that might help alleviate fears.
http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/***ushima-simple-explanation/


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *robchaos;12714344*
> I don't know if this is useful but here is a link to tepcos news page, and also a press release covering the states of their 10 total reactors at ***ushima 1 & 2
> http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031308-e.html (might have to reload a few times to get to it)
> http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/index-e.html (inaccessible right now probably due to very high traffic)


Yep I included a link to TEPCO's press page yesterday at some point and it can be found on the front page in the OP.

Also to everyone else I've updated the OP based on currently available information.


----------



## Hawk777th

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/1116240/1/.html

More problems at the other plant!


----------



## MC-Sammer

That is, quite possibly, the longest post in OCN history.

I hope they get the situation under control, I can't imagine a world without Japan.


----------



## Lampen

OP updated:
*Edit 1411 GMT: The Tohoku Electric Power Company has declared a state of emergency at is Onagawa Nuclear Facility in Northeastern Japan due to excessive radiation levels in the area surrounding the plant. On the 11th a fire caused by the earthquake ravaged part of the facility.*

*Map Showing ***ushima and Onagawa*


----------



## Andr3az

So this is another plant thats having trouble?


----------



## Hawk777th

Yes.


----------



## Floy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andr3az;12714630*
> So this is another plant thats having trouble?


Yes. As you can see on the map posted above your post, you can see that Onagawa is further north than ***ushima.


----------



## Lampen

Yep. We don't have a clear picture of exactly what is going wrong at the Onagawa facility yet though.


----------



## Lampen

OP Updated:

News Flash - IAEA Update on Nuclear Situation - *Japanese authorities have also informed the IAEA that the first (i.e., lowest) state of emergency at the Onagawa nuclear power plant has been reported by Tohoku Electric Power Company. The authorities have informed the IAEA that the three reactor units at the Onagawa nuclear power plant are under control.*

As defined in Article 10 of Japan's Act on Special Measures Concerning Nuclear Emergency Preparedness, the alert was declared as a consequence of radioactivity readings exceeding allowed levels in the area surrounding the plant. Japanese authorities are investigating the source of radiation. The IAEA has offered its "Good Offices" to Japan to support the nation's response to the 11 March earthquake and tsunami. One IAEA capability intended to help member states during crises is the Response and Assistance Network (RANET). The network consists of nations that can offer specialized assistance after a radiation incident or emergency. Such assistance is coordinated by the IAEA within the framework of the Assistance Convention.

The IAEA continues to liaise with the Japanese authorities and is monitoring the situation as it evolves.

It seems that it's not too bad at all. If they are giving it a INES rating of 1 they shouldn't be facing the same problems as the ***ushima facility which is rated at a 4.


----------



## FellsPoint

should i really buy these pills even tho im on the east coast or what


----------



## hak8or

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FellsPoint;12714777*
> should i really buy these pills even tho im on the east coast or what


Read the entire first post, it is nowhere near as serious as three mile island or Chernobyl.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FellsPoint;12714777*
> should i really buy these pills even tho im on the east coast or what


Absolutely not. If any meltdowns have occurred they have been contained by the reactor's pressure vessel.


----------



## Lampen

OP updated: Radiation levels at the Onagawa nuclear power plant in Miyagi prefecture are about 700 times higher than normal but are still low, the Tohoku Electric Power Company has said, according to the Maichi Shinbum website. Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency dismissed the possibility that the Onagawa plant was to blame, saying it was likely caused by the radioactive substances that scattered when a hydrogen explosion hit the troubled ***ushima plant on Saturday


----------



## Zen00

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FellsPoint;12714777*
> should i really buy these pills even tho im on the east coast or what


IF, even if there were a giant release of radiation with enough power to reach the US with deadly force were to come to pass, no little pill will save your life. Its just people trying to steal your money by preying on fear.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zen00;12714916*
> IF, even if there were a giant release of radiation with enough power to reach the US with deadly force were to come to pass, no little pill will save your life. Its just people trying to steal your money by preying on fear.


Our bodies need iodine, though, especially our thyroid glands. Our bodies can absorb iodine into our bloodstream from both our digestive tracts and our lungs. Unfortunately, though, our bodies can't tell the difference between the "safe" iodine-127 and the "dangerous" iodine-131; it sees them all as "iodine" and absorbs them all.

So, what happens is that this radioactive iodine is concentrated in the thyroid, where it suddenly decays to produce high-energy gamma rays that can cause DNA mutations . . . which later in life can lead to thyroid cancer. They can also lead to hyperthyroidism and other problems.

The one saving grace, as it were, though, is that since iodine-131 decays so quickly, it doesn't stay in the body all that long. Plus, the thyroid gland is relatively small, and can only hold so much iodine at any given moment (on the order of 10 milligrams). So, if you can keep the iodine-131 from accumulating in the thyroid over the exposure period, which is normally just a few days, you can minimize the risk.

So, that's where the potassium iodide tablets come in. They contain about 100 milligrams of safe iodine-127, which effectively "floods" the body with safe iodine, and minimizes the likelihood that the dangerous iodine-131 will be taken up by the thyroid before it can be excreted by the body. The risk of getting cancer from exposure to iodine-131 is not even close to 100%, but, obviously, the lower the better.

Obviously though these pills are intended to be used by people close to the site of the disaster, not half a world away. Also if the disaster has emitted an extreme amount of radiation no pill will keep you alive because the radiation will affect too many of your other bodily systems and organs.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zen00;12714916*
> IF, even if there were a giant release of radiation with enough power to reach the US with deadly force were to come to pass, no little pill will save your life. Its just people trying to steal your money by preying on fear.


If you are in an area that is expected to be exposed to iodine-131, making sure you don't metabolize it by saturating your thyroid with potassium iodide could very well protect you from thyroid cancer at some later date, and potentially save your life.

That said, no one in the US has any reason to be stocking up on potassium iodide because of what's going on in Japan.


----------



## Lampen

Breaking News - OP Updated:

A former nuclear power plant designer has said Japan is facing an extremely grave crisis and called on the government to release more information, which he said was being suppressed. Masashi Goto told a news conference in Tokyo that one of the reactors at the ***ushima-Daiichi plant was "highly unstable", and that if there was a meltdown the "consequences would be tremendous". He said such an event might be very likely indeed. So far, the government has said a meltdown would not lead to a sizeable leak of radioactive materials.

Mr Goto said the reactors at the ***ushima-Daiichi nuclear plant were suffering pressure build-ups way beyond that for which they were designed. There was a severe risk of an explosion, with radioactive material being strewn over a very wide area - beyond the 20km evacuation zone set up by the authorities - he added. Mr Goto calculated that because Reactor No 3 at ***ushima-Daiichi - where pressure is rising and there is a risk of an explosion - used a type of fuel known as Mox, a mixture of plutonium oxide and uranium oxide, the radioactive fallout from any meltdown might be twice as bad.


----------



## Zen00

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless;12715185*
> If you are in an area that is expected to be exposed to iodine-131, making sure you don't metabolize it by saturating your thyroid with potassium iodide could very well protect you from thyroid cancer at some later date, and potentially save your life.
> 
> That said, no one in the US has any reason to be stocking up on potassium iodide because of what's going on in Japan.


Ah, I thought the pills he was talking about were the "Rad Away" types, that claim to make you immune to radiation.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

this is ridiculous


----------



## Hawk777th

12:04am Japanese safety officials say the cooling system at the quake-damaged Onagawa nuclear plant has not been damaged, and the rise in reported radiation levels is due to a radiation leak at another plant nearby.

Seems the other one is leaking badly.

12:14am More on the situation at the Onagawa nuclear facility. The "lowest level of a state of emergency" was declared "as a consequence of radioactivity readings exceeding allowed levels in the area surrounding the plant", said the International Atomic Energy Agency. But, according to Japanese authorities, the three reactor units at the Onagawa nuclear power plant "are under control". The IAEA, the UN's nuclear watchdog, said that venting of the damaged Onagawa reactor unit had started at 9:20am in Japan "through a controlled release of vapour." The operation was intended to lower pressure inside the reactor containment. Following the failure of the high pressure injection system and other attempts of cooling the plant, the authorities had first injected water and then sea water into the unit. The authorities have informed the IAEA that accumulation of hydrogen is possible ... The IAEA is continuing to liaise with the Japanese authorities and is monitoring the situation as it evolves.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zen00;12715237*
> Ah, I thought the pills he was talking about were the "Rad Away" types, that claim to make you immune to radiation.


Oh God.... Fallout Series does not equal reality. You do know that right? There's no magical cure that can cleanse your body of radiation...


----------



## pengs

http://theenergycollective.com/barrybrook/53461/***ushima-nuclear-accident-simple-and-accurate-explanation
Quote:


> I am writing this text (Mar 12) to give you some peace of mind regarding some of the troubles in Japan, that is the safety of Japan's nuclear reactors. Up front, the situation is serious, but under control. And this text is long! But you will know more about nuclear power plants after reading it than all journalists on this planet put together.
> 
> There was and will *not* be any significant release of radioactivity.


Quote:


> The big main difference up front: Those radioactive materials have a very short half-life, that means that they decay very fast and split into non-radioactive materials. By fast I mean seconds. So if these radioactive materials are released into the environment, yes, radioactivity was released, but no, it is not dangerous, at all. Why? By the time you spelled "R-A-D-I-O-N-U-C-L-I-D-E", they will be harmless, because they will have split up into non radioactive elements.


Ect. ect.
News organizations are loving the ratings.

Main site: http://theenergycollective.com/


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

they've been saying the pressure has been rising dangerously for awhile now and its still holding. The stict building codes are saving peoples lives in japan


----------



## jprovido

hang on japan


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pengs;12715352*
> http://theenergycollective.com/barrybrook/53461/***ushima-nuclear-accident-simple-and-accurate-explanation
> 
> Ect. ect.
> News organizations are loving the ratings.


the news is scaring the hell out of people, level headed articles like that help.


----------



## twistedbran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless;12714159*
> Shouldn't have.
> 
> A significant minority of any given population are morons.


Honestly, I prefer to call them "Knuckle dragging, Mouth breathers."


----------



## Lampen

Breaking News - Third Nuclear Plant Failure - A pump within the cooling system of one of the reactors at the Tokai nuclear power plant has stopped working, according to the Kyodo news agency. The plant is located in the Naka district of the central prefecture of Ibaraki, and is operated by the Japan Atomic Power Company.


----------



## willis888

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12714871*
> Absolutely not. If any meltdowns have occurred they have been contained by the reactor's pressure vessel.


Perhaps "absolutely" is too strong a term. If there was a partial meltdown in site 1 reactor 1, then bits of radioactive solids would have dropped into the coolant. It's confirmed that coolant was vented from site 1 reactor 1. If there were solids released with that steam, they will fall out of the atmosphere as radioactive dust over a double-digit kilometers area.

Did they vent before or after it started melting?


----------



## Tunapiano

more pics i found on the interwebs today.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willis888;12715393*
> Perhaps "absolutely" is too strong a term. If there was a partial meltdown in site 1 reactor 1, then bits of radioactive solids would have dropped into the coolant. It's confirmed that coolant was vented from site 1 reactor 1. If there were solids released with that steam, they will fall out of the atmosphere as radioactive dust over a double-digit kilometers area.
> 
> Did they vent before or after it started melting?


Read Damric's responses at the bottom of the OP. Don't wanna have to repeat information that's already been covered.

New Map Added To OP:


----------



## Buzzin92

http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2011/03/japan_volcano_resumes_eruption_amid_earthquake_and_tsunami_aftermath.html

not good at all


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twistedbran;12715372*
> Honestly, I prefer to call them "Knuckle dragging, Mouth breathers."


Imprecise and overly presumptive.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12715443*


Looks like someone had trouble parking their boat.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzin92;12715460*
> http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2011/03/japan_volcano_resumes_eruption_amid_earthquake_and_tsunami_aftermath.html
> 
> not good at all


It was unclear if the eruptions were linked to quake. However, the last thing the Japanese need right now is a volcanic eruption...


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12715443*


Excuse me sir you can't park that there...


----------



## Scorpion87

Oh my ...
Earthquake, tsunami, meltdown, volcano...
What comes next ?

My thoughts are with the people of Japan, i hope they manage somehow to overcome all these disasters.
But on another note they should really forward more information to receive appropriate help, especially for the diverse meltdown and cooling situations of their nuclear powers plants.


----------



## Zen00

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12715281*
> Oh God.... Fallout Series does not equal reality. You do know that right? There's no magical cure that can cleanse your body of radiation...


Yes, I do. But some people don't, and some people make fake pills that have magical claims to sell to those who don't.


----------



## molino

job well done covering this tragedy lampen, very well
i can't believe a other nuclear plant is having same pump/cooling issue


----------



## Tunapiano




----------



## Zen00

I wonder if they're experiencing looting, like New Orleans did.


----------



## Lampen

OP Updated - The Japan Atomic Power Company has said the cooling system of a reactor at its Tokai nuclear power plant is working, although two of the three diesel power generators used for cooling are out of order, the Reuters news agency reports. The plant, about 120km (75 miles) north of Tokyo in Ibaraki prefecture, was automatically shut down after Friday's earthquake.


----------



## Tunapiano

this is an image of the guy they rescued today that was 9 miles out to sea on his roof.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zen00;12715727*
> I wonder if they're experiencing looting, like New Orleans did.


If they are I would almost bet it would be looting for food/water, not big screen tv's like in NO. Its a completly different culture there.


----------



## willis888

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12715447*
> Read Damric's responses at the bottom of the OP. Don't wanna have to repeat information that's already been covered.


As interesting as those comments are, I've done additional research and found a relevant answer - venting happened after the tube holding the fuel started to melt. Pieces of that tube were found in the released steam.


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12715762*
> this is an image of the guy they rescued today that was 9 miles out to sea on his roof.


Wow 9 Miles...scary!


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willis888;12715781*
> As interesting as those comments are, I've done additional research and found a relevant answer - venting happened after the tube holding the fuel started to melt. Pieces of that tube were found in the released steam.


Link? I've been looking for information that said something like that since the crisis started and I've found nothing to back it up and nobody is claiming it. Even the scaremongering websites aren't carrying anything like that.


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willis888;12715781*
> As interesting as those comments are, I've done additional research and found a relevant answer - venting happened after the tube holding the fuel started to melt. Pieces of that tube were found in the released steam.


I haven't heard of them finding pieces of a tube.


----------



## Lampen

International blowback on the nuclear crisis starting to occur - The crisis has renewed concern in other countries about the safety of atomic power. In Germany, Chancellor Angela Merkel said it represented a turning point for the world. She said that safety standards at her own country's nuclear power stations would now be reviewed. In the United States, Senator Joe Lieberman said Washington needed to put the brakes on the development of nuclear power plants until lessons were learned from what had happened in Japan.


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12715837*
> International blowback on the nuclear crisis starting to occur - The crisis has renewed concern in other countries about the safety of atomic power. In Germany, Chancellor Angela Merkel said it represented a turning point for the world. She said that safety standards at her own country's nuclear power stations would now be reviewed. In the United States, Senator Joe Lieberman said Washington needed to put the brakes on the development of nuclear power plants until lessons were learned from what had happened in Japan.


Too right ! If we cannot forget about Atomic power then at least make it safer.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE;12715868*
> Too right ! If we cannot forget about Atomic power then at least make it safer.


I'm just worried that it'll set back development of new reactors and plants by years if not decades. Given the projected growth in demand for energy over the next 40 years we're going to need some sort of bridge between coal, oil and gas and renewable resources. Nuclear is the most likely power source to fill that gap. However maybe this incident will also create greater demand for renewable energy development.


----------



## Lampen

Op Updated - Tokai nuclear power plant: A report submitted to the Ibaraki prefectural government by the Japan Atomic Power Company said that one of the two pumps being used to cool the water of a suppression pool for the plant's nuclear reactor had stopped working, according to the Kyodo news agency. However, the other pump was still working and there was no problem with cooling the reactor, the prefectural government said. All control rods were set in completely at the reactor, it added.

Looks like Tokai is stable for the time being. Hopefully it stays that way.


----------



## runeazn

darn it there goes my anime
i hope that the tokyo ban will go away so they make more money on anime







\

lets pray for them..


----------



## Zen00

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE;12715868*
> Too right ! If we cannot forget about Atomic power then at least make it safer.


Quite wrong! Modern Nuclear plants are very safe. It took an earthquake, one of the top 10 strongest ever recorded, to even bring one near meltdown. Most plants will never experience something like this! And they are currently designing new plants based on Thorium, rather than Uranium, which are even safer than current generation plants. We need to put more money into nuclear power, not take it away because of an accident occurring about once every 20 years. That's a safety record much higher than any coal or oil or other "natural" plants can boast. How many people are dying right now because of coal smoke aggravated emphysema? How many are dying from radiation sickness? Hint, I can tell you that there is a large disproportion.

In the end, nuclear is much safer than anything we have today, excepting things like solar power.


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12715914*
> I'm just worried that it'll set back development of new reactors and plants by years if not decades. Given the projected growth in demand for energy over the next 40 years we're going to need some sort of bridge between coal, oil and gas and renewable resources. Nuclear is the most likely power source to fill that gap. However maybe this incident will also create greater demand for renewable energy development.


I think that they ought to look into new energy production methods, Nuclear in the long run is not safe, whichever way you look at it. It may be Cleaner until you have to dispose of the waste but its not safe. Even a natural disaster proves that.


----------



## willis888

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12720219
Quote:


> Before the explosion, Japan's nuclear agency had said that radioactive caesium and iodine had been detected near the number one reactor. The agency said this could indicate that containers of uranium fuel inside the reactor may have begun melting.


The tubes that hold the uranium melt at 2200 degrees C, while the uranium fuel itself melts at 3000 degrees C. Its good that they did not find uranium, but you would expect them to find cesium and iodine in the coolant if the tubes were melting.

Coolant levels dropped as steam was vented, exposing the top of the core to air/steam. Without water to carry away heat produced by short-lived fission byproducts, the temperature of the exposed bits of core increased. Sometime after the cesium and iodine were detected, seawater was pumped in.

Seawater remains irradiated longer than pure water, making clean-up more expensive.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willis888;12715984*
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12720219
> 
> The tubes that hold the uranium melt at 2200 degrees C, while the uranium fuel itself melts at 3000 degrees C. Its good that they did not find uranium, but you would expect them to find cesium and iodine in the coolant if the tubes were melting.
> 
> Coolant levels dropped as steam was vented, exposing the top of the core to air/steam. Without water to carry away heat produced by short-lived fission byproducts, the temperature of the exposed bits of core increased. Sometime after the cesium and iodine were detected, seawater was pumped in.
> 
> Seawater remains irradiated longer than pure water, making clean-up more expensive.


Ah kk. Yeah I didn't post it up because it's too heavily speculated at this point, but it is one of the possibilities.


----------



## Dirtyworks

You know, the "[BBC]" tag could probably be shed from the title now..


----------



## X-Nine

Holy crap.... I just viewed the OP again. They have THAT many plants in Japan?

That's insane. I really hope they get things under control. Even if there's no explosion there's still risk of environmental affects.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XNine;12716140*
> Holy crap.... I just viewed the OP again. They have THAT many plants in Japan?
> 
> That's insane. I really hope they get things under control. Even if there's no explosion there's still risk of environmental affects.


The United States has 104 operation plants, France has 58, and Japan 55.

On an interesting sidenote China has 13 in operation, 27 under construction, 50 planned, and 110 proposed.


----------



## Lampen

OP Updated - A spokesman for the Japan Atomic Power Company has explained that one of the cooling system pumps at its Tokai nuclear power plant failed because of the tsunami. "We then manually stopped one of our cooling systems," Masao Nakano told the AFP news agency. "But the other cooling systems and other pumps are working well, and temperatures of the reactor have continued to fall smoothly.

Looks like things are really stable at the Tokai power plant. I'll keep posting about it until the emergency status is lifted from the plant.


----------



## Blaze051806

hmm. as Cool at nuke energy is.. sticking that many on a Island nation that is prone to earth quakes is well.. stupid..


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blaze051806;12716241*
> hmm. as Cool at nuke energy is.. sticking that many on a Island nation that is prone to earth quakes is well.. stupid..


I don't know look at what it took to make one start to have issues.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blaze051806;12716241*
> hmm. as Cool at nuke energy is.. sticking that many on a Island nation that is prone to earth quakes is well.. stupid..


World Earthquake Risk Map










World Earthquake Risk Map With Nuclear Plants










You have to admit though. At the end of the day it's taken an extreme disaster to bring about these failures. The ***ushima plants were close to being decommissioned, with Reactor #1 supposed to go down toward the end of march if I remember correctly(***ushima Reactors #7 and #8 were are currently in development and were planned to take over as the older BWR reactors were decommissioned). Anyway these are very old plants compared to current technology and Japan is more prepared for disasters like this that pretty much anyone else.


----------



## Telimektar

Lampen, your books suggestions links don't work, you've put http:// twice XD


----------



## Tunapiano

more images of the quake aftermath.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Telimektar;12716369*
> Lampen, your books suggestions links don't work, you've put http:// twice XD










Whoops! Thanks for the heads up. I thought they worked when I updated my sig.


----------



## Tunapiano

Apparently the ***ushima Reactors are american designed by GE.

source


----------



## PriceEddie

Love the scare-mongering done by the media. Not that I should be surprised!

Eddie.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12716476*
> Apparently the ***ushima Reactors are american designed by GE.


The ***ushima Reactors utilize the GE's general design BWR design, but only ***ushima-1 and ***ushima-2 were actually supplied by GE. All the other reactors in both plants are Toshiba and Hitachi heavy industry variants.

Edit: Also ***ushima-6 apparently.


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12716581*
> The ***ushima Reactors utilize the GE's general design BWR design, but only ***ushima-1 and ***ushima-2 was actually supplied by GE. All the other reactors in both plants are Toshiba and Hitachi heavy industry variants.


Ahh, cool. the article didn't state specifics on what reactors actually had any GE designs or parts.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12716476*
> Apparently the ***ushima Reactors are american designed by GE.
> 
> source


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless;12710335*
> The Monticello reactor in Minnesota is the same type of GE BWR-3 that is used in ***ushima I: http://www.nucleartourist.com/us/monti.htm
> 
> Buildings are a bit different, but the diagrams of the reactor itself should be nearly identical to the one that has had the largest issues in Japan.


And actually, now that I've seen some better pictures of ***ushima I, the buildings look pretty similar too.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12716617*
> Ahh, cool. the article didn't state specifics on what reactors actually had any GE designs or parts.


Only reason I knew it was because I was reading up on the different types of BWR and ABWR reactor designs when this story initially broke. Also the Japanese reactors are a bit further along in the development cycle than their US counterparts. I think the Japanese reactors are all BWR-3+ while a lot of the US ones are BWR-1 or 2.


----------



## xd_1771

So has the seawater cooling method actually been working so far?


----------



## Lampen

Op Updated - World Nuclear News has more information on the situation at the Onagawa nuclear power plant: It says a "technical emergency" was declared at 1250 after radiation levels at the site reached 21 microSieverts per hour. Within just 10 minutes, however, the level had dropped to 10 microSieverts per hour, WNN adds. The plant's three reactors remain in a safe shutdown condition at below 100C and the Tohoku Electric Power Company has reported no other issues.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12716672*
> So has the seawater cooling method actually been working so far?


So far it looks like it's keeping the reactors stable at ***ushima. Combined with the boric acid that is.


----------



## Tunapiano

Sounds like it's getting under control though the reactors will be tough to cleanup, i thought i read somewhere that Sea water renders the reactor unusable, that's why it's a last resort option.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12716672*
> So has the seawater cooling method actually been working so far?


yes, the temps have been dropping steadily they said.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12716740*
> Sounds like it's getting under control though the reactors will be tough to cleanup, i thought i read somewhere that Sea water renders the reactor unusable, that's why it's a last resort option.


Yeah once the saltwater hits the cooling system corrosion begins. After everything is stabilized the reactor is basically useless and will have to be decommissioned.


----------



## Andr3az

Pretty insteresting and freaky vid of the ground cracking open and moving:

[ame="[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkHxDZGSM7E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkHxDZGSM7E"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkHxDZGSM7E[/ame[/URL]]


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

i say they just remove the reactor, reapply thermal paste, bolt it back down tighter and stress test it. keep an eye on realtemp.

glad its under control.


----------



## xd_1771

So basically the risk of any meltdown is reducing. That's great to hear.
Is there still a good risk though?


----------



## BKsMassive

This is why we couldn't of let more countries become Nuclear states. should of just kept the original 5.

And the nuclear power station is over 40 years old! this is just ridiculous.


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andr3az;12716803*
> Pretty insteresting and freaky vid of the ground cracking open and moving:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkHxDZGSM7E


haha i like at one point it says this is reclaimed land from the bay haha, it looks like the bay is reclaiming it once again!


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12716855*
> So basically the risk of any meltdown is reducing. That's great to hear.
> Is there still a good risk though?


Yes there is a still a risk but it's greatly diminished at this point. The most worrying one is ***ushima Plant #2's Reactor #3 because it a MOX reactor, using both Uranium and Plutonium fuel. All of the reactors are still classified as a nuclear emergency, but all the news that's come out today has been good so far.


----------



## Andr3az

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BKsMassive;12716871*
> This is why we couldn't of let more countries become Nuclear states. should of just kept the original 5.
> 
> And the nuclear power station is over 40 years old! this is just ridiculous.


Its pretty normal for nuclear power stations to be around 40 years old. Most of the worlds nuclear powerplants are around that age ( well in russia atleast







).


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BKsMassive;12716871*
> This is why we couldn't of let more countries become Nuclear states. should of just kept the original 5.
> 
> And the nuclear power station is over 40 years old! this is just ridiculous.


Hard to keep the nuclear genie in the bottle once it's been let out.

Also nuclear power plants represent a massive amount of capital investment and resources so they are designed to be used for decades like most power plants. I think the average cost of the ***ushima reactors was 1.5 billion each so they are trying to get a good return on their investment. Modern plants that are currently under development cost between 8.5 and 14 billion.

I think it's also a relatively expensive form of electricity compared to coal, oil and natural gas. The initial electrical cost is about 13 US cents per kWh for the first 5 years and 18 US cents ever year after that. The average cost of a full decommissioning is 300-500 million US dollars.


----------



## nukefission

Baaaaad


----------



## Pwnography

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BKsMassive;12716871*
> This is why we couldn't of let more countries become Nuclear states. should of just kept the original 5.
> 
> And the nuclear power station is over 40 years old! this is just ridiculous.


Is it really tho ? you expect them to build and destroy a billion dollar building every 20 years. Not particularly cost effective. Why wont you people realize that this meltdown has killed less people than cars have in the time its taken me to type this post.

And we build new ones every day which are even more safe.

These thins are about a safe as you can get, i dont see anybody saying no to oil after the BP oil spill (which killed more people and did far more environmental damage i might add).

**** happens.

Really dont want to take away from the severity of the disaster but i feel its more important that this doesn't cause mass hysteria and we lose nuclear power as the brilliant source of energy it is.


----------



## Lampen

OP Updated - Special Announcement - The US Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) has said it does not foresee harmful levels of radiation reaching the US from the damaged Japanese nuclear power plants. "All the available information indicates weather conditions have taken the small releases from the ***ushima reactors out to sea away from the population," a statement said. "Given the thousands of miles between the two countries, Hawaii, Alaska, the US Territories and the US West Coast are not expected to experience any harmful levels of radioactivity.


----------



## Dirtyworks

ugh. "should *of*, could *of*, would *of*". Gets more annoying everytime.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12717240*
> OP Updated - Special Announcement - The US Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) has said it does not foresee harmful levels of radiation reaching the US from the damaged Japanese nuclear power plants. "All the available information indicates weather conditions have taken the small releases from the ***ushima reactors out to sea away from the population," a statement said. "Given the thousands of miles between the two countries, Hawaii, Alaska, the US Territories and the US West Coast are not expected to experience any harmful levels of radioactivity.


lol

I interpreted this at first as

"It is not going to affect us, we don't care anymore"

Perpetuating American stereotype


----------



## Lampen

Satellite Photos of Japan, Before and After the Quake and Tsunami
Move the slider to compare satellite images, taken by GeoEye, from before and after the disaster.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/13/world/asia/satellite-photos-japan-before-and-after-tsunami.html


----------



## Pwnography

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12717349*
> Satellite Photos of Japan, Before and After the Quake and Tsunami
> Move the slider to compare satellite images, taken by GeoEye, from before and after the disaster.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/13/world/asia/satellite-photos-japan-before-and-after-tsunami.html


Wow.


----------



## cbr600

Here is some more over head pics. one of them is one of the nuclear plants.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12726589


----------



## Shaman

*puts finger into pot of proverbial broth*

Mmmm... tasty! However, this thread needs more panic, definitely more panic.

And a touch of fake outrage, and perhaps maybe a pinch more of terror and dread.

I swear, the corpses of the greatest generation are rotating at 9000RPM in their graves at the sight of this, and I ain't talking about the stuff going on in Japan.

*Man up for **$*^&*#*!!!*


----------



## Hawk777th

Latest situation update on ***ushima from:hisz.rsoe.hu...

Situation Update No. 21
On 13.03.2011 at 16:40 GMT+2

The level of coolant water in the Number Three reactor at the ***ushima Number One power plant dropped on Sunday, leaving the fuel rods exposed by two meters. The situation continued for at least until 3pm, possibly causing a partial melting of the rods. As a result, masses of hydrogen gas have accumulated in the inside top of the reactor building. The gas may cause an explosion similar to that which occurred at the Number One reactor on Saturday. Tokyo Electric Power Company, also known as TEPCO, is considering ways to remove the hydrogen from the structure. The Number One reactor and its containment structure are being pumped with seawater in an effort to secure cooling. The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency says the amount of seawater should entirely fill the reactor structure, and that the building should be safe as long as the water flow continues. At the Number Two reactor, the amount of coolant continues to be lower than usual, and the pressure within the containment vessel is above normal. TEPCO attempted to restore the functioning of an electrical pressure-relief device by connecting a generator, but has not succeeded. The company is considering other means to relieve the reactor pressure, such as releasing air from the containment vessel. Inadequate cooling is also occurring at the ***ushima Number Two power plant, where the pumps to send seawater to cool the Number One, Two and Four reactors have failed due to the tsunami. TEPCO says it will try to restore the cooling systems by replacing the pump motors overnight.

Latest situation update on Miyagi

Situation Update No. 4
On 13.03.2011 at 16:19 GMT+2

Excessive levels of radiation at a second Japanese nuclear facility at Onagawa after Friday's earthquake have led authorities to report a state of emergency, the UN nuclear agency said. "Japanese authorities have informed the IAEA that the first or lowest state of emergency at the Onagawa nuclear power plant has been reported by Tohoku Electric Power Company," the International Atomic Energy Agency said. The alert was declared "as a consequence of radioactivity readings exceeding allowed levels in the area surrounding the plant. "Japanese authorities are investigating the source of radiation."


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12717240*
> OP Updated - Special Announcement - The US Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) has said it does not foresee harmful levels of radiation reaching the US from the damaged Japanese nuclear power plants. "All the available information indicates weather conditions have taken the small releases from the ***ushima reactors out to sea away from the population," a statement said. "Given the thousands of miles between the two countries, Hawaii, Alaska, the US Territories and the US West Coast are not expected to experience any harmful levels of radioactivity.


THANK YOU SIR








Or does this only apply to the small releases that have happened so far? What if a bigger release were to happen on a worst case scenario?


----------



## Hawk777th

http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFTKG00708120110313


----------



## Lampen

Op Updated - Massive Press Update Incoming

****ushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station*

All 6 units of ***ushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station have been shut down.

[There is no update from the previous press release.]

Unit 1(Shut down)
- Reactor has been shut down. However, the unit is under inspection due to the explosive sound and white smoke that was confirmed after the big quake occurred at 3:36PM.
- We have been injecting sea water and boric acid which absorbs neutron into the reactor pressure vessel.

Unit 2(Shut down)
- Reactor has been shut down and Reactor Core Isolation Cooling System has been injecting water to the reactor. Current reactor water level is lower than normal level, but the water level is steady. After fully
securing safety, measures to lowering the pressure of reactor containment vessel has been taken, under the instruction of the national government.

Unit 3(Shut down)
- Reactor has been shut down. However, as High Pressure Core Injection System has been automatically shut down and water injection to the reactor was interrupted, following the instruction by the government and with fully securing safety, steps to lowering the pressure of reactor containment vessel has been taken. Spraying in order to lower pressure level within the reactor containment vessel has been cancelled.
- After that, safety relief valve has been opened manually, lowering the pressure level of the reactor, which was immediately followed by injection of boric acid water which absorbs neutron, into the reactor pressure vessel.

Unit 4 (shut down due to regular inspection)
- Reactor has been shut down and sufficient level of reactor coolant to ensure safety is maintained.
- Currently, we do not believe there is any reactor coolant leakage inside the reactor containment vessel.

Unit 5 (outage due to regular inspection)
- Reactor has been shut down and sufficient level of reactor coolant to ensure safety is maintained.
- Currently, we do not believe there is any reactor coolant leakage inside the reactor containment vessel.

Unit 6 (outage due to regular inspection)
- Reactor has been shut down and sufficient level of reactor coolant to ensure safety is maintained.
- Currently, we do not believe there is any reactor coolant leakage inside the reactor containment vessel.

Casualty
- 2 workers of cooperative firm were injured at the occurrence of the earthquake, and were transported to the hospital.
- 1 TEPCO employee who was not able to stand by his own with his hand holding left chest was transported to the hospital by an ambulance.
- 1 subcontract worker at important earthquake-proof building was unconscious and transported to the hospital by an ambulance.
- The radiation exposure of 1 TEPCO employee, who was working inside the reactor building, exceeded 100mSv and was transported to the hospital.
- 2 TEPCO employees felt bad during their operation in the central control rooms of Unit 1 and 2 while wearing full masks, and were transferred to ***ushima Daini Power Station for consultation with
a medical advisor.
- 4 workers were injured and transported to the hospital after explosive sound and white smoke were confirmed around the Unit 1.
- Presence of 2 TEPCO employees at the site are not confirmed

Others
- We are currently coordinating with the relevant authorities and departments as to how to secure the cooling water to cool down the water in the spent nuclear fuel pool.
*- We measured radioactive materials inside of the nuclear power station area (outdoor) by monitoring car and confirmed that radioactive materials level is higher than ordinary level. Also, the level at monitoring post is higher than ordinary level. We will continue to monitor in detail the possibility of radioactive material being discharged from exhaust stack or discharge canal. The national government has instructed evacuation for those local residents within 20km radius of the periphery because it's possible that radioactive materials are discharged.*

- We will continue to take all measures to restore the security of the
site and to monitor the environment of the site periphery.

****ushima Daini Nuclear Power Station*

Unit 1 (shut down at 2:48pm on March 11th)
- Reactor is shut down and reactor water level is stable.
- Offsite power is available.
- At 8:19am, Mar 12th, there was an alarm indicating that one of the control rods was not properly inserted, however, at 10:43am, Mar 12th the alarm was spontaneously called off. Other control rods has been confirmed that they are fully inserted (reactor is in subcritical status)
- Status of main steam isolation valve: closed
- Injection of water into the reactor is done by Make-up Water Condensate System.
- We do not believe there is leakage of reactor coolant in the containment vessel at this moment.
- At 5:22am, Mar 12th, the temperature of the suppression chamber exceeded 100 degrees. As the reactor pressure suppression function was lost, at 5:22am, Mar 12th, it was determined that a specific incident
stipulated in article 15, clause 1 has occurred.
*- We decided to prepare implementing measures to reduce the pressure of the reactor containment vessel (partial discharge of air containing radioactive materials) in order to fully secure safety. This preparation work started at around 9:43am, Mar 12th and finished at 6:30pm, Mar 12th.*
- Restoration work in reactor cooling function is in progress to achieve reactor cold shutdown.

Unit 2 (shut down at 2:48pm on March 11th)
- Reactor is shut down and reactor water level is stable.
- Offsite power is available.
- Control rods are fully inserted (reactor is in subcritical status)
- Status of main steam isolation valve: closed
- Injection of water into the reactor is done by Make-up Water Condensate System.
- We do not believe there is leakage of reactor coolant in the containment vessel.
- At 5:32am, Mar 12th, the temperature of the suppression chamber exceeded 100 degrees. As the reactor pressure suppression function was lost, at 5:32am, Mar 12th, it was determined that a specific incident stipulated in article 15, clause 1 has occurred.
*- We decided to prepare implementing measures to reduce the pressure of the reactor containment vessel (partial discharge of air containing radioactive materials) in order to fully secure safety. This preparation work started at around 10:33am, Mar 12th and finished at 10:58pm, Mar 12th.*
- Restoration work in reactor cooling function is in progress to achieve reactor cold shutdown.

Unit 3 (shut down at 2:48pm on March 11th)
- Reactor is shut down and reactor water level is stable.
- Offsite power is available.
- Control rods are fully inserted (reactor is in subcritical status)
- Status of main steam isolation valve: closed
- We do not believe there is leakage of reactor coolant in the containment vessel.
*- We decided to prepare implementing measures to reduce the pressure of the reactor containment vessel (partial discharge of air containing radioactive materials) in order to fully secure safety. The preparation woke started at around 12:08pm, Mar 12th and finished at 12:13pm, Mar 12th.*
- Reactor cold shutdown at 12:15pm, Mar 12th

Unit 4 (shut down at 2:48pm on March 11th)
- Reactor is shut down and reactor water level is stable.
- Offsite power is available.
- At 0:43PM, there was a signal indicating that one of the control rods may have not properly inserted. However, we confirmed that it was inserted completely by another signal. We will inspect the reason of this.
- Status of main steam isolation valve: closed
- Injection of water into the reactor is done by Make-up Water Condensate System.
- We do not believe there is leakage of reactor coolant in the containment vessel.
- In order to cool down the reactor, injection of water into the reactor had been done by the Reactor Core Isolation Cooling System, however, At 6:07am, Mar 12th, the temperature of the suppression chamber exceeded 100 degrees. As the reactor pressure suppression function was lost, at 6:07am, Mar 12th, it was determined that a specific incident stipulated in article 15, clause 1 has occurred.
- We decided to prepare implementing measures to reduce the pressure of the reactor containment vessel (partial discharge of air containing radioactive materials) in order to fully secure safety. The preparation woke started at around 11:44am, Mar 12th and finished at around 11:52am, Mar 12th.
- Restoration work in reactor cooling function is in progress to achieve reactor cold shutdown.

Indication from monitoring posts installed at the site boundary did not show any difference from ordinary level. No radiation impact to the external environment has been confirmed. We will continue to monitor in detail the possibility of radioactive material being discharged from exhaust stack or discharge canal.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

So thats good news.


----------



## aweir

Recent concerns have been raised about Reactor #3 due to its status as a MOX reactor, meaning it utilizes Uranium-235 and Plutonium-239 as fuel.

And what does _that_ mean?


----------



## ThumperSD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12702374*
> that's it I'm not sleeping tonight. this is starting to get really, really scary. this is one of the only times i ever remember a single event turning into a chain reaction of potentially globally catastrophic events.


You live in NY dude! Nothing will happen


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12717833*
> Recent concerns have been raised about Reactor #3 due to its status as a MOX reactor, meaning it utilizes Uranium-235 and Plutonium-239 as fuel.
> 
> And what does _that_ mean?


it could release alot more radiation than the other reactors IF it blew.


----------



## Dirtyworks

I clicked the wrong quote link..


----------



## molino

where did you get this press release from japan lampen??
seems like nhk world doesn't cover the nuclear plants at this moment
where you getting these updates ?


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *molino;12717881*
> where did you get this press release from japan lampen??
> seems like nhk world doesn't cover the nuclear plants at this moment
> where you getting these updates ?


http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/index-e.html

TEPCO - Owner/Operator of Nuclear Plants in ***ushima. I've been trying to get through for updates for quite a while now. It's hit or miss if you can get into their press room.

Coverage is going down because the situation has greatly stabilized and the media is penetrating further into disaster areas so the news diverting it's attention. Sort of like what's happened with Libya. Ghaddfi's forces have been pushing the resistance back further and further and now that the world is distracted by Japan the Libyans are going to experience brutal reprisals.


----------



## Shredicus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *molino;12717881*
> where did you get this press release from japan lampen??
> seems like nhk world doesn't cover the nuclear plants at this moment
> where you getting these updates ?


I think directly from the TEPCO site.


----------



## molino

ahh yes i forgot about tepco


----------



## Lampen

News Update - Professor Patrick Regan, radiation and environmental protection expert from Surrey University, has told the BBC that it appears none of the secure vessels holding radioactive material at the reactors in Japan has broken, and "it looks like the worst is over." Professor Regan said when they vented the first reactor at ***ushima on Saturday - triggering the explosion at the plant - "that vapour would almost certainly have had a little bit of radioactive material called nitrogen 16 - which is in all reactors. That decays away very quickly, in 5 to 10 seconds, but if some of the fuel rods - which appears to have been the case - were compromised, some of the radioactive material from the fuel would have got into the steam and that would also have been taken out." So a key question seems to be to what extent the fuel rods had begun to melt down.


----------



## molino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12717948*
> http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/index-e.html
> 
> TEPCO - Owner/Operator of Nuclear Plants in ***ushima. I've been trying to get through for updates for quite a while now. It's hit or miss if you can get into their press room.
> 
> Coverage is going down because the situation has greatly stabilized and the media is penetrating further into disaster areas so the news diverting it's attention. Sort of like what's happened with Libya. Ghaddfi's forces have been pushing the resistance back further and further and now that the world is distracted by Japan the Libyans are going to experience brutal reprisals.


yeah i understand, they have so much devastation's to cover and interview people who witnessed the tsunami and survived
there is no more tsunami flows going on right now right? seems like the replies of the earthquake have lowered
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_all.php


----------



## Lampen

Interesting announcement - Japan's Earthquake Research Committee estimates Friday's devastating earthquake forced the tectonic plate on which Japan sits to spring eastward by about 20m (66 feet), says NHK. The researchers also say the quake caused some areas, from Iwate to ***ushima prefectures, to sink up to about 75cm.


----------



## Vowels

So a few pages back, someone mentioned that new reactors are started to be built using thorium as the fuel. I remember watching a Google Tech Talk video (which I've embedded below) a few years back about liquid fluoride thorium reactors that showed thorium was MUCH safer than current fuels.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZR0UKxNPh8[/ame]


----------



## AdvanSuper

Lampen, thanks for the constant updates and information you've been posting while this thread has been up.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdvanSuper;12718249*
> Lampen, thanks for the constant updates and information you've been posting while this thread has been up.


You're welcome!


----------



## roberts91

This is going to be a really stupid question because since it obviously hasn't been asked everyone else seems to get it. If the nuclear power plants were shutdown at the time of the earthquake why are the nuclear power plants still producing heat?

At least that's what it sounds like to me or does it just take a really long time to cool down these power plant reactors to a safe level?


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roberts91;12718345*
> This is going to be a really stupid question because since it obviously hasn't been asked everyone else seems to get it. If the nuclear power plants were shutdown at the time of the earthquake why are the nuclear power plants still producing heat?
> 
> At least that's what it sounds like to me or does it just take a really long time to cool down these power plant reactors to a safe level?


It takes a long while to cool one down. use your computer for example.. Turn it off.. It still has heat being produced for a while.. same goes with cars.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roberts91;12718345*
> This is going to be a really stupid question because since it obviously hasn't been asked everyone else seems to get it. If the nuclear power plants were shutdown at the time of the earthquake why are the nuclear power plants still producing heat?
> 
> At least that's what it sounds like to me or does it just take a really long time to cool down these power plant reactors to a safe level?


To my knowledge only the cooling pumps failed.


----------



## AdvanSuper

Not to mention they only had a 15 minute notice before the quake hit.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roberts91;12718345*
> This is going to be a really stupid question because since it obviously hasn't been asked everyone else seems to get it. If the nuclear power plants were shutdown at the time of the earthquake why are the nuclear power plants still producing heat?
> 
> At least that's what it sounds like to me or does it just take a really long time to cool down these power plant reactors to a safe level?


Light water reactors experience decay heat after they shutdown. Basically the reactor continues to make heat as reactions are still occurring. Typically after shutdown a LWR will continue to produce energy equivalent to 7% of the power level it was operating at prior to shutdown. After shutdown it can cool to 1-2% within a couple days, but can take several weeks to months to reach low temperatures. Hence why cooling is important even in reactors that are shutdown.


----------



## Lampen

Weather Update - Winds in the area of the ***ushima nuclear plants were set to turn westerly on Sunday night, Japan's meteorological agency said according to Reuters. "The wind direction is right for people in Japan," it quotes Lennart Carlsson, director of the Nuclear Power Plant Safety in Sweden, as saying. "It's blowing out to the Pacific. I don't think this will be any problem to other countries.


----------



## gdansk

I'd like to point out that this is essentially the worst case scenario. We have a 40 year old reactor that was about to be retired, next month, that gets hit by a 9.0 magnitude earthquake and causes an explosion. Oh, and all this happens in a heavily populated island. The fact that there hasn't be a catastrophic meltdown tells you that the system was designed quite well to survive such a scenario.


----------



## runeazn

and china?

west wind..


----------



## Lampen

OP Updated - Japanese authorities have told the UN nuclear watchdog, the IAEA, that radioactivity levels "at the site boundary" of the Onagawa nuclear power plant have returned to normal, Reuters reports. A state of emergency was declared at the site on Sunday after radioactivity readings exceeding allowed levels in the area.


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE;12715978*
> I think that they ought to look into new energy production methods, Nuclear in the long run is not safe, whichever way you look at it. It may be Cleaner until you have to dispose of the waste but its not safe. Even a natural disaster proves that.


I'm sorry but NO, just NO. Nuclear energy *is* one of the safest forms of power we have now. We have had three issues since we started using it, two were from poor design and human error and this one which took one of the largest earthquakes ever recorded and several tsunamis hitting it to even get it to the point where there is as of now a slim chance of anything other then local issues. Nuclear puts out far more power than anything we have now, is much cleaner than any of the other major sources of energy. Solar, wind, hydro and geothermal excluded as they aren't major players in the grand scheme of things, the list goes on and on. This disaster does not show how unsafe nuclear energy is, it shows how unsafe insane natural disasters are.

Nuclear waste is an overblown issue that really isn't a big deal, you do know that coal ash that is put out in coal plants is radioactive right? And that goes right into the air whereas with nuclear waste we can bury it with really no issues. There is already radioactive material everywhere anyway. Plus with the prospect of reusing spent nuclear fuel to further fuel plants only puts a positive light on nuclear energy. If nuclear energy were truly dangerous I would think there would have been an issue by now in a modern plant that wasn't the result of insane circumstances. PLUS these reactors that are having issues are 40 years old, there are far stricter safety precautions now and if you look at the news even after all this punishment that has been directed at these reactors they STILL haven't been NEAR as bad as the two prior meltdowns that were a direct result of human error and poor design.(which doesn't happen anymore in modern plants)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gdansk;12718555*
> I'd like to point out that this is essentially the worst case scenario. We have a 40 year old reactor that was about to be retired, next month, that gets hit by a 9.0 magnitude earthquake and causes an explosion. Oh, and all this happens in a heavily populated island. The fact that there hasn't be a catastrophic meltdown tells you that the system was designed quite well to survive such a scenario.


Thank you, someone who gets it.


----------



## Lampen

Good article on Coal Ash:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste&print=true
Quote:


> The popular conception of nuclear power is straight out of The Simpsons: Springfield abounds with signs of radioactivity, from the strange glow surrounding Mr. Burn's nuclear power plant workers to Homer's low sperm count. Then there's the local superhero, Radioactive Man, who fires beams of "nuclear heat" from his eyes. Nuclear power, many people think, is inseparable from a volatile, invariably lime-green, mutant-making radioactivity.
> 
> Coal, meanwhile, is believed responsible for a host of more quotidian problems, such as mining accidents, acid rain and greenhouse gas emissions. But it isn't supposed to spawn three-eyed fish like Blinky.
> 
> Over the past few decades, however, a series of studies has called these stereotypes into question. Among the surprising conclusions: the waste produced by coal plants is actually more radioactive than that generated by their nuclear counterparts. In fact, the fly ash emitted by a power plant-a by-product from burning coal for electricity-carries into the surrounding environment 100 times more radiation than a nuclear power plant producing the same amount of energy.


----------



## BlackVenom

Damn, hopefully it'll get under complete control soon. Never really thought about an earthquake hitting a nuclear power plant.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ABeta;12702285*
> The island of Japan just needs to be ditched by it's people ASAP. Relocate to Russia or some other country with large unused land.


They've got a nice island called ostrov Novaya Zemlya. Oh wait...


----------



## molino

god i cant stand the voice of the translator on nhk world anymore


----------



## Tunapiano

more images from the quake.

*An aerial view of the devastation in the town of Onagawa, Japan, on March 13.*










*A train station vanished from where it once stood in Minami Sanriku, Japan, March 13.*










*An "SOS" signal is written on the sports field of a high school in Minami Sanriku, Japan, March 13.*


----------



## Lampen

OP Updated - Breaking News - Radiation Levels at ***ushima Plant #1, Reactor #1 are have again exceeded legal maximum exposure limits.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12719103*
> OP Updated - Breaking News - Radiation Levels at ***ushima Plant #1, Reactor #1 are have again exceeded legal maximum exposure limits.


its going to be doing this off and on for awhile most likely.


----------



## Trigunflame

Those of you making the absurd claims that coal ash is somehow worse on the whole than nuclear, tell me this:
When was the last time 200,000 people within a 12 mile radius has had to be evacuated due to a problem at a coal plant?
Quote:


> McBride and his co-authors estimated that individuals living near coal-fired installations are exposed to a maximum of 1.9 millirems of fly ash radiation yearly. *To put these numbers in perspective, the average person encounters 360 millirems of annual "background radiation" from natural and man-made sources, including substances in Earth's crust, cosmic rays, residue from nuclear tests and smoke detectors.*


We're not concerned with minimal levels of radiation that occur during typical operation.

We're talking about the problems that occur when something Bad happens.

Coal plant? Not really much of a problem.
Nuclear plant? Run, before you grow another arm (exaggeration, obviously).

Cleaner (aside from the spent fuel, newer reactors deal with this better)? Yes.
Safer? Hell no.


----------



## Dyson Poindexter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trigunflame;12719602*
> Those of you making the absurd claims that coal ash is somehow worse on the whole than nuclear, tell me this:
> When was the last time 200,000 people within a 12 mile radius has had to be evacuated due to a problem at a coal plant?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_Fossil_Plant_coal_fly_ash_slurry_spill


----------



## Lampen

Op Updated: Pumping seawater into damaged nuclear reactors in Japan should keep them from a catastrophic full-scale meltdown, but conditions are still so volatile that it is far too early to declare the emergency over, nuclear experts have told Reuters. It is probably the first time in the industry's 57-year history that seawater has been used in this way, a sign of how close Japan is to facing a major nuclear disaster, according to the scientists.

The experts interviewed by Reuters warn it is still far too early to definitively say the day has been saved, especially as the information from the power company and the authorities is incomplete. But they say that with every hour that goes by, the chances of a major catastrophe are diminished - as long as water from the sea or elsewhere keeps reactor cores from overheating. Japanese authorities "appear to be having enough success to have forestalled a definite core melt accident that's difficult to control", said Mark Hibbs of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. "After three days that is very good news." But still, he added, it is "a touch-and-go situation"


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trigunflame;12719602*
> Those of you making the absurd claims that coal ash is somehow worse on the whole than nuclear, tell me this:
> When was the last time 200,000 people within a 12 mile radius has had to be evacuated due to a problem at a coal plant?
> 
> We're not concerned with minimal levels of radiation that occur during typical operation.
> 
> *We're talking about the problems that occur when something Bad happens.*
> 
> Coal plant? Not really much of a problem.
> Nuclear plant? Run, before you grow another arm (exaggeration, obviously).
> 
> Cleaner (aside from the spent fuel, newer reactors deal with this better)? Yes.
> Safer? Hell no.


I never made the claim that coal ash was worse than a nuclear meltdown, it is worse than nuclear waste though. Do a bit of research as well, the evacuation is a safety precaution. Obviously if there is even a slim chance of a nuclear meltdown happening they will evacuate, doesn't mean that it WILL meltdown. On that note Something bad has happened, one of the worst natural disasters in a very long time and guess what, Japan isn't covered in nuclear fallout, infact there is barely even increased radiation levels aside from one reactor and that is only in the direct vicinity. This whole ordeal if anything has shown the resilience of even older well built nuclear reactors even after all cooling systems failed and the country was essentially in chaos there STILL isn't an issue on anything larger than a very local scale(as of yet at least.)

Please do some actual research and stop listening to people with clear agendas against nuclear power, even a tiny bit of research on modern plants will show you EXACTLY why they are considered some of the safest plants around.

By your logic cars are far safer than planes because when a plane DOES crash it kills more than a few people despite the fact that there are far more car accidents and despite the fact that percentage wise planes are by order of magnitudes far less likely to crash.


----------



## Trigunflame

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scyy;12719796*
> I never made the claim that coal ash was worse than a nuclear meltdown, it is worse than nuclear waste though. Do a bit of research as well, the evacuation is a safety precaution. Obviously if there is even a slim chance of a nuclear meltdown happening they will evacuate, doesn't mean that it WILL meltdown. On that note Something bad has happened, one of the worst natural disasters in a very long time and guess what, Japan isn't covered in nuclear fallout, infact there is barely even increased radiation levels aside from one reactor and that is only in the direct vicinity. This whole ordeal if anything has shown the resilience of even older well built nuclear reactors even after all cooling systems failed and the country was essentially in chaos there STILL isn't an issue on anything larger than a very local scale(as of yet at least.)
> 
> Please do some actual research and stop listening to people with clear agendas against nuclear power, even a tiny bit of research on modern plants will show you EXACTLY why they are considered some of the safest plants around.


I'm less concerned with how safe they claim to be, and more so with with how well they prove to be.

If a shake can cause these kinds of problem, what's going to happen if they had been targeted by an opposing military force via air strike?


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trigunflame;12719921*
> I'm less concerned with how safe they claim to be, and more so with with how well they prove to be.
> 
> If a shake can cause these kinds of problem, what's going to happen if they had been targeted by an opposing military force via air strike?


Don't argue in extremes, it makes your case look weak.(which it is)


----------



## Trigunflame

*Extremes* are what matter here. Obviously, you can't or won't accept that.
Either way, I've said all I will about it.


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trigunflame;12720155*
> *Extremes* are what matter here. Obviously, you can't or won't accept that.
> Either way, I've said all I will about it.


I can think up thousands of scenarios that will almost certainly not happen, should we worry about those as legitimate concerns as well? It would be extremely stupid for any force to knowingly attack a nuclear plant, there would be global repercussions and they would likely be dealt with swiftly by a majority of the civilized world.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trigunflame;12719921*
> If a shake can cause these kinds of problem, what's going to happen if they had been targeted by an opposing military force via air strike?


A piece of trivia: According to studies carried out by the U.S. Electric Power Research Institute, both the reactor and the waste fuel storage should withstand an attack comparable to those of 9/11.

I'd say this your so-called "shake" caused a "slightly" bigger issue, don't you think?


----------



## Argorn5757

kitty staying dry. EDIT: Its from 2010


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Argorn5757;12720493*
> kitty staying dry.


aww, poor thing.


----------



## FellsPoint

i would save the kitty and take him home before it drowns or gets eaten.


----------



## Argorn5757

Quote:



Originally Posted by *FellsPoint*


i would save the kitty and take him home before it drowns or gets eaten.


i think the cat was saved

http://translate.google.com/translat...F07153327.html

edit: ah i fail, article and pic are from 2010. thats what i get for finding on a less than reliable site X_X


----------



## Dyson Poindexter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trigunflame;12719921*
> If a shake can cause these kinds of problem, what's going to happen if they had been targeted by an opposing military force via air strike?


I believe there's a video somewhere of a fighter jet being flown into a containment wall. The wall didn't budge.

Edit, found it.

[ame="[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25vlt7swhCM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25vlt7swhCM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25vlt7swhCM[/ame[/URL]]


----------



## Argorn5757

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyson Poindexter;12720600*
> I believe there's a video somewhere of a fighter jet being flown into a containment wall. The wall didn't budge.
> 
> Edit, found it.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25vlt7swhCM


impressive


----------



## FellsPoint

there was a guy floating on a roof for 2 days that got saved today.


----------



## Sylon

Just wanted to thank Lampen for putting this all together.









makes my life easier lol


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sylon*


Just wanted to thank Lampen for putting this all together.









makes my life easier lol


You're welcome.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Indeed, thanks for keeping us posted. It can be pretty difficult to find trusty sources in times of crisis, especially in light of such events. Kudos!


----------



## Lampen

I had my radio turned on the night of the earthquake because I anticipated something would happen with all the reactors. Once I heard the first confirmation of problems I figured I should start a thread where information could be centralized and shared. Plus while I didn't expect to accrue any from a news thread, a lot of people have +REP'd me for it which is great since I want my free Overclocked account at some point









It seems the situation with the reactors has stabilized. Nothing new coming out of the press reports and the news frees I've got running on my screens have slowed down significantly. It probably won't pick up unless something suddenly changes or technicians get a closer look at the reactors once they cool down.


----------



## Zen00

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


I had my radio turned on the night of the earthquake because I anticipated something would happen with all the reactors. Once I heard the first confirmation of problems I figured I should start a thread where information could be centralized and shared. Plus while I didn't expect to accrue any from a news thread, a lot of people have +REP'd me for it which is great since I want my free Overclocked account at some point









It seems the situation with the reactors has stabilized. Nothing new coming out of the press reports and the news frees I've got running on my screens have slowed down significantly. It probably won't pick up unless something suddenly changes or technicians get a closer look at the reactors once they cool down.


The situation has stabilized? Hah! Take that you dirty fear mongerers out there.


----------



## SOCOM_HERO

best consolidation of a major and complex event I have seen on the internet as of yet. Great post OP. Hope that the situation is indeed improving and can be minimized as much as possible, and I hope that the second plant is also saved in swift fashion. Good thing there are such precautions in place in Japan.


----------



## Lampen

Op updated - New York Times - 0319 GMT - As the scale of Japan's nuclear crisis begins to come to light, experts in Japan and the United States say the country is now facing a cascade of accumulating problems that suggest that radioactive releases of steam from the crippled plants could go on for weeks or even months. Japanese reactor operators now have little choice but to periodically release radioactive steam until the radioactive elements in the fuel of the stricken reactors stop generating intense heat, a process that can continue for a year or more even after the fission process has stopped. To control that heat, the plant's operator must constantly try to flood the reactors with seawater, then release the resulting radioactive steam into the atmosphere, several experts familiar with the design of the Daiichi facility said. That suggests that the 200,000 people who have been evacuated may not be able to return to their homes for a considerable period and that shifts in the wind could blow radioactive materials toward Japanese cities rather than out to sea.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/wo...pagewanted=all


----------



## xd_1771

More radioactivity over a year?
Could this become serious enough to accumulate and cause major long-term problems for anyone in the way?
I mean, I could understand having to potentially evacuate for a month (i.e. worst-case-scenario), but a year is pushing it...


----------



## molino

0221: Urgent: Explosion at Reactor 3 - AFP


----------



## xd_1771

Oh boy, an explosion--
What cause?


----------



## molino

#
0224: "Hydrogen blast occurs at ***ushima nuke plant's No 3 reactor" - Kyodo.


----------



## xd_1771

So basically another hydrogen blast like reactor 1.
Are the effects worse? Reactor 3 contains different, more dangerous elements I think (uranium and plutonium right?). This should be a pretty big concern...


----------



## molino

stay tuned on nhk world
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv


----------



## Krymore

A 60-year-old Japanese man was rescued Sunday more than nine miles out at sea after clinging to the swept-away remnants of his home for more than two days.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...ex.html?hpt=T1


----------



## Lampen

Breaking News: Explosion at ***ushima Plant #2, Reactor #3(MOX Reactor).

An estimated 3m (10ft) tsunami has been sighted off the NE cost of Japan. Landfall expected within minutes.


----------



## molino

#
0227: There were two explosions at Reactor 3, the operator Tepco says - AFP.
this could be it :/


----------



## xd_1771

TWO MORE explosions!?
So all three have blown
This is bad... very bad

I wonder what caused that new tsunami apparently


----------



## Krymore

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


Breaking News: Explosion at ***ushima Plant #2, Reactor #3(MOX Reactor).

An estimated 3m (10ft) tsunami has been sighted off the NE cost of Japan. Landfall expected within minutes.


Thats not good


----------



## molino

the tsunami has been discarded apparently but we saw a huge wave on the live feed of the coast like 1 min ago


----------



## xd_1771

Wait
the explosions at the reactors caused ANOTHER new tsunami?
That must mean big, bad explosions, IF it is true...


----------



## Krymore

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


Wait
the explosions at the reactors caused ANOTHER new tsunami?
That must mean big, bad explosions, IF it is true...


No its probably the result of an aftershock. The coast guard just reported a 5.8


----------



## molino

no watch the live feed


----------



## xd_1771

Various things coming no the chat feed on that NHK page
"3 m wave spotted offshore by helicopters. Water receeeding is first sign that it is incoming"
"radiation detected 60 miles from power plant by us helicopter"
Don't trust it 100% but it's there, just saying.

NHK showing about the 2nd/3rd explosions now


----------



## SinX7

Ohh man, I hope they get better asap!


----------



## Capwn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *molino*


no watch the live feed


link?


----------



## xd_1771

The explosion looks rather small
a very small white plume is rising but that's it?


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Capwn*


link?


http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv


----------



## Tha_Real_Smurf

Quote:



Originally Posted by *molino*


stay tuned on nhk world
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Capwn*


link?


There you go









EDIT: ninja'd lol


----------



## Digigami

Geez almost looks like that's steam coming out of the reactor?


----------



## phaseshift

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tha_Real_Smurf*


There you go









EDIT: ninja'd lol


there's more confusion in that chatroom than there is in this thread


----------



## xd_1771

Perhaps that's it, radioactive steam being released again
Unless we're just being shown the wrong footage/they don't have it


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


The explosion looks rather small
a very small white plume is rising but that's it?


It was a chemical reaction, it was *not* a nuclear explosion.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Digigami*


Geez almost looks like that's steam coming out of the reactor?


Well ya, there is water being boiled in there to cool the reactor.


----------



## Lampen

News Flash - 0340 GMT - A second and third explosion have rocked Reactor #3 in ***ushima Plant #2. There is particular concern over this reactor because it is a MOX reactor, meaning it utilizes Uranium-235 and Plutonium-239 as fuel. Initial reports indicate both explosions were generated during a ventilation of the reactor which resulted in hydrogen and oxygen mixing in the building enclosing the reactor pressure vessel and other components. As a result the building has at least partially collapse. It is not known at this time if the pressure vessel has been compromised. For those of you who have been following this story this is very similar to what happened to Reactor #1 in the complex's sister plant earlier in the crisis. Story Developing...


----------



## trivium nate

they might be hit again,

http://www.9wsyr.com/news/local/stor...27Tj8MCfg.cspx


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:



Originally Posted by *scyy*


It was a chemical reaction, it was *not* a nuclear explosion.


I meant in contrast to the reactor 1 explosion
That one seemed much bigger


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


News Flash - 0340 GMT - A second and third explosion have rocked Reactor #3 in ***ushima Plant #2. There is particular concern over this reactor because it is a MOX reactor, meaning it utilizes Uranium-235 and Plutonium-239 as fuel. Initial reports indicate both explosions were generated during a ventilation of the reactor which resulted in hydrogen and oxygen mixing in the building enclosing the reactor pressure vessel and other components. As a result the building has at least partially collapse. It is not known at this time if the pressure vessel has been compromised. For those of you who have been following this story this is very similar to what happened to Reactor #1 in the complex's sister plant earlier in the crisis. Story Developing...


They said the containment is still intact.


----------



## phaseshift

Quote:



Originally Posted by *trivium nate*


they might be hit again,

http://www.9wsyr.com/news/local/stor...27Tj8MCfg.cspx


ABC ewww


----------



## Digigami

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


I meant in contrast to the reactor 1 explosion
That one seemed much bigger


I don't think they have shown the #3 explosion live yet. What we were seeing is the building after, and it puffing smoke/steam or something like that. Judging from the look of the building, I'd say it was a slightly larger explosion.


----------



## 8-Ball

So...are we screwed?


----------



## Vowels

Just announced containment is not breach and little chance of radioactivity being leaked into the air.


----------



## shnur

They are playing it very safe for the evacuated people.
I hope there's nothing wrong with the hydrogen release; especially since reactor 3 is a more dangerous mix. I'm not too worried though; they're releasing it to lower the pressure level so it's an "expected" consequence.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *8-Ball*


So...are we screwed?


Japan, maybe.


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *8-Ball*


So...are we screwed?


No, it is the exact same type of explosion as the one yesterday. The reactor and containment vessel is still completely intact.


----------



## xd_1771

So, potentially bigger explosion, but no containment breach.
That's good at least.


----------



## Capwn

So much for everyone claiming how "safe" nuclear power is


----------



## xd_1771

NHK: "Radiation leak unlikely"


----------



## aweir

Another tsunami headed for japan right now!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03...an-helicopter/


----------



## Tha_Real_Smurf

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


NHK: "Radiation leak unlikely"


Her voice doesnt sound so good does it? I think she needs a drink...


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Capwn*


So much for everyone claiming how "safe" nuclear power is










Ya, it only took one of the worst natural disasters ever recorded to get to the slim possibility of this being anymore than a localized issue.







Please go do some research, I am tired of explaining exactly why people with your view point are wrong.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


Another tsunami headed for japan right now!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03...an-helicopter/


It dissipated.


----------



## Digigami

Before and after explosion at #3 reactor from NHK World


----------



## xd_1771

Yeah, definitely unlike the sexy azn voice who translated the prime minister's words back on Thursday night or so.

*HERE IS THE EXPLOSION FOOTAGE!*
  
 You Tube  



 
 *HERE IS THE EXPLOSION FOOTAGE!*


----------



## molino

god aweri just get out... edit your post and get out...


----------



## Marc-Olivier Beaudoin

it's safe andthis is a proof ... even with an explosion it didn't breach the reactors .

And most power plant are built where there's no major catastrophic event to hit them in the west . japan just didn't have a choice but using it.

not everyone are lucky as quebec and can build immense lake to house humongous hydroelectric facilities to get a clean source of energy . EVEN then hydroelectric energy isn't clean because of the forest you have to flood and all the toxin and gaz contained in the trees and vegetations release . but at least nothing major can happen to the world if it breaks .


----------



## Kailliak

nvm


----------



## xd_1771

Already posted the footage, it's on top of this page
It was huge


----------



## Lampen

Reports coming in that tsunami was a false alarm. Using digigami's and Xd's pics/videos! Thanks guys! I've posted them in the OP!


----------



## hawaiian_geek

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


Another tsunami headed for japan right now!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03...an-helicopter/



It's been canceled.
http://www.jma.go.jp/en/tsunami/


----------



## pioneerisloud

You can see plainly in the after videos, that the containment vessel is still in tact. The steam is rising out of it it looks like.


----------



## shnur

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Capwn*


So much for everyone claiming how "safe" nuclear power is











Quote:



Originally Posted by *scyy*


Ya, it only took one of the worst natural disasters ever recorded to get to the slim possibility of this being anymore than a localized issue.







Please go do some research, I am tired of explaining exactly why people with your view point are wrong.

It dissipated.


When you have an earthquake of ~9.0 and a few tsunamis; anything is as "safe" as you say it


----------



## 8-Ball

Despite the reactor not being affected, it still shows that the thing is OVERHEATING!


----------



## aweir

2 rep that's incredible.

Anyway, only a hydrogen explosion at a nuclear power plant could be downplayed. LOL


----------



## xd_1771

Another interesting video you might want to check out:

  
 You Tube


----------



## Shogon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ABeta*


The island of Japan just needs to be ditched by it's people ASAP. Relocate to Russia or some other country with large unused land.


Theres no more land left to conquer I mean settle. BTW, a HAARP vid


----------



## molino

nice find, nhk wolrd live feed didnt show any blast


----------



## aweir

this is no time to be posting humorous videos when we have a completely safe hydrogen explosion.

Just lettin' off some steam....
You spelled word world wrong. Edit your post and get out.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

HAARP has nothing to do with this, that's even worse fearmongering than was being done before.


----------



## aweir

The plant could've handled the quake perfectly, the problem was the diesel generators that failed. It had nothing to do with the plant itself.


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


The plant could've handled the quake perfectly, the problem was the diesel generators that failed. It had nothing to do with the plant itself.


^This and it wasn't even the quake that took them out it was the tsunami apparently.


----------



## 8-Ball

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


The plant could've handled the quake perfectly, the problem was the diesel generators that failed. It had nothing to do with the plant itself.


I heard that these generators were external which exposes it more dangers?


----------



## aweir

the power supply has not been begun because the information is added to the confusion general about explosion. We are stopping commuting trains and adding confusion to the plan powercuts. There has been a turmoil exaggeration...

that's the way she is translating it.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Thankfully im fluent in Japanese


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


2 rep that's incredible.

Anyway, only a hydrogen explosion at a nuclear power plant could be downplayed. LOL


If it is being downplayed at least it is being done to stop people from thinking the reactor itself blew up and we are all screwed. The structures were designed to blow out like that in the case of an explosion exactly like this. It's not like it was some completely unexpected event.


----------



## aweir

Let's hope they can learn from this and build the generators higher next time and away from tsunamis so they don't get flooded.

And why are these building blowing up?? I thought they were venting them to reduce the buildup of pressure to prevent explosion.

Or are they not venting them because of the risk of radiation and waiting for them to blow up themselves?


----------



## robbo2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


Let's hope they can learn from this and build the generators higher next time and away from tsunamis so they don't get flooded.


How about not building it on a tectonic plate next time.


----------



## scyy

I just really wish the news stations would at least point out that it is not the reactors themselves that are the issue here and it is simply the cooling systems that have failed. All it does is feed fear to people that have no actual understanding of the issues at hand right now and just assume NUCLEAR=BAD!


----------



## 8-Ball

Quote:



Originally Posted by *scyy*


I just really wish the news stations would at least point out that it is not the reactors themselves that are the issue here and it is simply the cooling systems that have failed. All it does is feed fear to people that have no actual understanding of the issues at hand right now and just assume NUCLEAR=BAD!


Still...

If those things aren't cool = kaboom

right?


----------



## aweir

Yeah I wish they would stop saying the "reactor" exploded. these reactors don't explode. They don't have the same type or uranium as a bomb.


----------



## Lampen

Chicago Sun Times Reports 6 injured, all missing found after explosion. Initial report was 3 injured, 6 missing.


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


Let's hope they can learn from this and build the generators higher next time and away from tsunamis so they don't get flooded.

And why are these building blowing up?? I thought they were venting them to reduce the buildup of pressure to prevent explosion.

Or are they not venting them because of the risk of radiation and waiting for them to blow up themselves?


I'm fairly certain they have been venting them as well, reactor #1 and #3 were in the worst shape from the get go though because of the coolant failures.


----------



## aweir

Was it the containment building of reactor #3 that exploded. and is this the one that has the MOX reactor!?


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *8-Ball*


Still...

If those things aren't cool = kaboom

right?


It won't ever explode.(at least these types of reactors) If they don't cool it the fuel will continue to release radioactive material that will have to be vented out over time but as damric has said earlier almost all the radioactive material will dissipate in a matter of hours. They have the situation pretty much under control, the reactors are off, they just need to cool them now and every hour that passes the chances of a major issue occurring get slimmer and slimmer.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


Was it the containment building of reactor #3 that exploded. and is this the one that has the MOX reactor!?


As far as we know yes, that is the MOX reactor. The vessel is intact however.


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


Was it the containment building of reactor #3 that exploded. and is this the one that has the MOX reactor!?


Yes, it was the building over it that exploded, the containment vessel itself and the reactor are still completely intact. As was said earlier they are designed to blow out like that for cases exactly like this. And yes it is a MOX reactor, so the danger is greater with it but as already said they are off and cooling and venting is the last step.(A very long step though)


----------



## aweir

Ok, that's not making sense! Design a building to explode instead of having an emergency release valve?

That just sounds moronically crazy.


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


Ok, that's not making sense! Design a building to explode instead of having an emergency release valve?

That just sounds moronically crazy.


They do have release valves, but if it gets to a point that an explosion is going to happen no matter what they have it designed so the explosion goes completely outwards so there isn't massive pieces of concrete crashing onto the reactor and containment vessel. That is all I meant, it is designed so if worse comes to worse the reactor is still intact. I'm not saying it's a good thing by any stretch.


----------



## aweir

that contradicts what I've heard earlier. that the building it designed to collapse in on itself so as to not kill anyone near it. Apparently they have some sort of explosion fetish in Japan.


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


that contradicts what I've heard earlier. that the building it designed to collapse in on itself so as to not kill anyone near it. Apparently they have some sort of explosion fetish in Japan.


I dunno, I'm just saying what I had heard earlier regarding this. I could be wrong about the exact way it reacts to the explosion but I am almost positive about the fact that it is designed so if an explosion were to happen it is contained in such a way that it wouldn't damage the reactor.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


Ok, that's not making sense! Design a building to explode instead of having an emergency release valve?

That just sounds moronically crazy.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


that contradicts what I've heard earlier. that the building it designed to collapse in on itself so as to not kill anyone near it. Apparently they have some sort of explosion fetish in Japan.


The buildings were largely designed for aesthetics. They are designed to hide the reactors from view but still allow for normal and emergency functions.


----------



## Zen00

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


that contradicts what I've heard earlier. that the building it designed to collapse in on itself so as to not kill anyone near it. Apparently they have some sort of explosion fetish in Japan.


It would make more sense to have it explode out anyways, as anyone around it would have been evacuated by the time it got to that point.


----------



## aweir

So they are designed to break-away in an emergency. That sort of makes sense but you'd think there would be a huge valve to release the pressure without resorting to an explosion which freaks people out.


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


So they are designed to break-away in an emergency. That sort of makes sense but you'd think there would be a huge valve to release the pressure without resorting to an explosion which freaks people out.


Like I said, I could be wrong I am just going off what I had seen several people say, but they seemed to be rather well versed in all this so it sounded believable. You can also look at the results of both explosions at #1 and #3 and aside from #3 looking slightly more damaged they essentially exploded in exactly the same manner and look nearly identical.


----------



## AzO

This thread is so evil.

Everyone is hoping the reactor explodes and turns into a mushroom cloud. People love seeing violence and destruction on TV. People can't get enough of it, because if they did the people would request to see how the relief effort is going and what they can do to help, but instead news agencies are repeating the videos and images of destruction and turmoil 24hrs a day.

What a freak show.


----------



## aweir

The reactor will not explode. We discussed this a hundred times already.


----------



## TaNgY

Video of explosion at Plant #2, Reactor #3 - Thanks to xd_1771 
whys the picture get so dark from 0.28secs - 0.29secs just before the explosion ? added screen filter or something or is my vid card bustardo ?


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

idk about hoping it explodes, but this whole thing is very interesting


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AzO*


This thread is so evil.

Everyone is hoping the reactor explodes and turns into a mushroom cloud. People love seeing violence and destruction on TV. People can't get enough of it, because if they did the people would request to see how the relief effort is going and what they can do to help, but instead news agencies are repeating the videos and images of destruction and turmoil 24hrs a day.

What a freak show.


How is this thread evil? Most of us have been dispelling the fear mongering and lies that have been said.


----------



## aweir

In the middle of 2 extremes you will have the truth.


----------



## Rising

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AzO*


This thread is so evil.

Everyone is hoping the reactor explodes and turns into a mushroom cloud. People love seeing violence and destruction on TV. People can't get enough of it, because if they did the people would request to see how the relief effort is going and what they can do to help, but instead news agencies are repeating the videos and images of destruction and turmoil 24hrs a day.

What a freak show.


This post is so out of context, I'm not sure if it's a troll or not. In a disaster like this, the media is going to cover it. You sound as if people drool over seeing real live destruction like this the same as seeing the fake stuff. Most people don't. The ones that do are current/future psychos.


----------



## Lampen

Op Updated - Full quotes from Yukio Edano on the explosion: "We believe that there is a low possibility that a massive amount of radiation has been leaked. But it is similar to the time when the hydrogen explosion took place in number 1 reactor (which exploded on Saturday). In the case of number 3 reactor, we can see higher level of radiation. We are now collecting information for the concentration of the radiation and the dose."


----------



## Zen00

If I want to see nuclear explosions, I'll go look at testing footage from the 50's. This isn't the place. We're not ghouls. We're trying to help people understand the real situation and dispel the fear mongerers.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

The title should reflect that the outer containment building walls have collapsed, the containment vessel itself is still intact. It can be misread in a way that implies the reactor itself exploded. Edit; the chief cabinet secretary has also said that containment pressure in #3 has stabilized.


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


The title should reflect that the outer containment building walls have collapsed, the containment vessel itself is still intact. It can be misread in a way that implies the reactor itself exploded. Edit; *the chief cabinet secretary has also said that containment pressure in #3 has stabilized.*


Good to hear, and thinks for keeping this thread clean and keeping it open.(I at least assume it has mostly been you since you have consistently been on the actively viewing list.)


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


The title should reflect that the outer containment building walls have collapsed, the containment vessel itself is still intact. It can be misread in a way that implies the reactor itself exploded. Edit; the chief cabinet secretary has also said that containment pressure in #3 has stabilized.


Updating Now.


----------



## Telimektar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AzO*


This thread is so evil.

Everyone is hoping the reactor explodes and turns into a mushroom cloud. People love seeing violence and destruction on TV. People can't get enough of it, because if they did the people would request to see how the relief effort is going and what they can do to help, but instead news agencies are repeating the videos and images of destruction and turmoil 24hrs a day.

What a freak show.


I'm sure the media hopes a big catastrophy will occur, as long as it doesn't endanger themselves. you can see it everytime there's a big natural disaster, journalists photographing people on the verge of dying when they really could help them and save ther lives,


----------



## Lampen

The central control room of Reactor 3 remains intact after the blast, the Japanese government says.


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AzO*


This thread is so evil.

Everyone is hoping the reactor explodes and turns into a mushroom cloud. People love seeing violence and destruction on TV. People can't get enough of it, because if they did the people would request to see how the relief effort is going and what they can do to help, but instead news agencies are repeating the videos and images of destruction and turmoil 24hrs a day.

What a freak show.


Someone hasn't read the thread I see, none of us want the reactors to meltdown and secondly if they did there wouldn't be a mushroom cloud...


----------



## Lampen

News Flash - Op Updated - The Japanese government has just said there was no marked change in the radiation level after the blast at Reactor 3. According to an article in the New York Times, the US aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan, which is sailing in the Pacific, passed through a radioactive cloud from Japan's stricken reactors on Sunday. Crew members received a month's worth of radiation in about an hour, government officials were quoted as saying.

Article: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/wo....html?ref=asia

Quote:



The Pentagon was expected to announce that the aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan, which is sailing in the Pacific, passed through a radioactive cloud from stricken nuclear reactors in Japan, causing crew members on deck to receive a month's worth of radiation in about an hour, government officials said Sunday. The officials added that American helicopters flying missions about 60 miles north of the damaged reactors became coated with particulate radiation that had to be washed off. There was no indication that any of the military personnel had experienced ill effects from the exposure.


----------



## aweir

this just in, there has been a reported earthquake in northern Califorina by the USGS. USGS sensors list the quake as magnitude "?" so far

...

Edit...it must have been a false reading because it was just removed


----------



## -Apocalypse-

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


News Flash - Op Updated - The Japanese government has just said there was no marked change in the radiation level after the blast at Reactor 3. According to an article in the New York Times, the US aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan, which is sailing in the Pacific, passed through a radioactive cloud from Japan's stricken reactors on Sunday. Crew members received a month's worth of radiation in about an hour, government officials were quoted as saying.

Article: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/wo....html?ref=asia


That's the most troublesome news yet. They got that size dose and there hasn't even been a confirmed meltdown yet... Granted, that dose probably won't affect any crewmember's health, but that's still worrisome. Naturally for security reasons they can't say how far off the Ronald Reagan is. Be nice to get that in a couple hours though, once it can't be used to estimate where the ship is.

That said, I can imagine the crew initially went into full containment mode thinking there was a alarm failure and the radiation was from their reactor. Yeesh, I can't imagine being on a carrier with reactor problems... it was stressful enough doing that in Crysis.


----------



## shineon2011

Quote:



Originally Posted by *eagle1337*


someone hasn't read the thread i see, none of us want the reactors to meltdown and secondly if they did there wouldn't be a mushroom cloud...


+1


----------



## Aznboy1993

oh my gosh~
may God help us all


----------



## Eagle1337

Hey lampen remove the bold paragraphs, it's annoying to read, i'd try a slightly bigger font.
edit: well he's not here atm -.-


----------



## Simca

I know it might sound mean, but I wonder if there is video footage of the tidal wave hitting Japan. I'm not trying to get a laugh out of it. I just don't know what one would look like. I'd like to see it if it's available. Not often you see a tidal wave go on by.

Also any footage of all the damage in Japan? I hear it's bad, but haven't seen anything sadly. :\\

Also, OP's icon matches the situation pretty nicely.


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *-Apocalypse-*


That's the most troublesome news yet. They got that size dose and there hasn't even been a confirmed meltdown yet... Granted, that dose probably won't affect any crewmember's health, but that's still worrisome. Naturally for security reasons they can't say how far off the Ronald Reagan is. Be nice to get that in a couple hours though, once it can't be used to estimate where the ship is.

That said, I can imagine the crew initially went into full containment mode thinking there was a alarm failure and the radiation was from their reactor. Yeesh, I can't imagine being on a carrier with reactor problems... it was stressful enough doing that in Crysis.


They are venting radioactive steam, the radioactive material will dissipate soon enough. This isn't the same type of radioactive cloud as say Chernobyl.


----------



## Digigami

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Simca*   I know it might sound mean, but I wonder if there is video footage of the tidal wave hitting Japan. I'm not trying to get a laugh out of it. I just don't know what one would look like. I'd like to see it if it's available. Not often you see a tidal wave go on by.

Also any footage of all the damage in Japan? I hear it's bad, but haven't seen anything sadly. :\\

Also, OP's icon matches the situation pretty nicely.  
Lots of video on youtube already..

  
 You Tube


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Eagle1337*


Hey lampen remove the bold paragraphs, it's annoying to read, i'd try a slightly bigger font.
edit: well he's not here atm -.-


Sorry I'm currently in the OP cleaning it up and posting new information.


----------



## Zen00

It's interesting, watching how well those boats stay upright after going over that ledge.


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


News Flash - Op Updated - The Japanese government has just said there was no marked change in the radiation level after the blast at Reactor 3. According to an article in the New York Times, the US aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan, which is sailing in the Pacific, passed through a radioactive cloud from Japan's stricken reactors on Sunday. Crew members received a month's worth of radiation in about an hour, government officials were quoted as saying.

Article: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/wo....html?ref=asia


So there are radioactive clouds deifnitely heading eastward...
Oh sh--- evacuation time?
EDIT: It appears the doses weren't harmful, nvm


----------



## jjsoviet

Here's hoping the nuclear reactors would be stabilized rather quickly. It's unnerving that even a slight leak in radiation can deal long-term damage to people in the affected area.


----------



## Eagle1337

thanks lampen I can read the op better try size 2 font though.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


So there are radioactive clouds deifnitely heading eastward...
Oh sh--- evacuation time?
EDIT: It appears the doses weren't harmful, nvm


you have your underwear in a suitcase ready to go don't you.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Eagle1337*


thanks lampen I can read the op better try size 2 font though.


Better? Hard for me to tell. I'm using my three computer screens to stream a ton of different feeds and streams and doing all the posting on my TV.

Edit: OP updated - John Keeley from the Nuclear Energy Institute in Washington has told the BBC the hydrogen explosion was similar to the first blast at the plant: "Japanese officials to their credit have come out here quite quickly and suggested that at least at this moment they don't believe there has been any significant radiological release - we will cross our fingers and hope that's the case. It appears that was the case with Unit 1's explosion, we'll hope that's certainly the case with Unit 3.


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


Better? Hard for me to tell. I'm using my three computer screens to stream a ton of different feeds and streams and doing all the posting on my TV.


Now it's nice, not a wall o text but not large enough to be annoying.


----------



## -Apocalypse-

Quote:



Originally Posted by *scyy*


They are venting radioactive steam, the radioactive material will dissipate soon enough. This isn't the same type of radioactive cloud as say Chernobyl.


Oh, I know that. That was still a rather potent cloud however. Now, I don't know the half-lives of the elements, but if they got a month's worth in an hour at 60+ miles out, imagine what that cloud was to the people trying to bring the plant under control.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


Better? Hard for me to tell. *I'm using my three computer screens to stream a ton of different feeds and streams and doing all the posting on my TV.*

Edit: OP updated - John Keeley from the Nuclear Energy Institute in Washington has told the BBC the hydrogen explosion was similar to the first blast at the plant: "Japanese officials to their credit have come out here quite quickly and suggested that at least at this moment they don't believe there has been any significant radiological release - we will cross our fingers and hope that's the case. It appears that was the case with Unit 1's explosion, we'll hope that's certainly the case with Unit 3.


Your eyes are about to either mutiny or go on strike.... But still, I'm envious of that setup. Keep up the flow of information.


----------



## aweir

Remember this is a MOX reactor. http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.ac...81474979135951


----------



## 8-Ball

I don't understand.

First, that a meltdown is possible.

Then some users here say that it is NOT possible.

And they will NEVER explode.

But...if the cooling system is down and it is obviously overheating, then there IS possibility of it exploding due to the heat?

And mass radiation in the air is possible either way right?

I think there should be an FAQ on the OP as well, but the OP has done enough work on the updating.

+REP for him by the way.


----------



## xd_1771

Actually, it's been reported that there's a chance that mass radiation already is in the air


----------



## Lampen

***ushima Nuclear Facility Update:

***ushima I Nuclear Facility- Emergency Cooling Operations being conducted at ***ushima Plant #1, Reactors #1, #2, and#3. Seawater and Boric Acid are being injected into all three reactors in order to slow cool them as quickly as possible. Earlier in the crisis a hydrogen explosion caused by emergency venting of the reactor damaged an external containment building however the reactor pressure vessel is believed to be intact. Officials are still unsure whether a meltdown has occurred, but are actively working to assess the situation as it develops. During the morning of March 14 a second explosion caused by emergency venting of a reactor destroyed the external containment building of Reactor #3 in the ***ushima I Nuclear Facility(Plant #1). All government announcements have indicated that the situation is under control but there is particular concern over this reactor because it is a MOX reactor, meaning it utilizes Uranium-235 and Plutonium-239 as fuel. The pressure in the reactor was last reported as normal. Teams are currently trying to assess how much, if any, radiation or radioactive material was released during the venting and subsequent explosion.

***ushima II Nuclear Facility - Plant operators were able to restore Reactor One's residual heat remover system, which is now being used to cool the reactor. Work is in progress to achieve a cold shutdown of the reactor. Technicians are currently attempting to restore residual heat removal systems for Reactor Two and Four. Reactor Three is currently in safe, shutdown.

It seems that ***ushima II is almost out of the woods at this point. ***ushima has quite a way to go.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *8-Ball*


I don't understand.

First, that a meltdown is possible.

Then some users here say that it is NOT possible.

And they will NEVER explode.

But...if the cooling system is down and it is obviously overheating, then there IS possibility of it exploding due to the heat?

And mass radiation in the air is possible either way right?

I think there should be an FAQ on the OP as well, but the OP has done enough work on the updating.

+REP for him by the way.


Meltdowns are possible but improbable. If a meltdown does occur it will likely be a partial meltdown, only affecting a small amount of the nuclear fuel. If this happens it's highly unlikely that the reactor vessel would be breached and everything would be contained within the vessel.

They can explode from excessive pressure. If the heat is great enough and the cooling is inadequate the reactor vessel could rupture. The Japanese however are doing everything they can to ensure adequate cooling(sea water and boric acid injection) and pressure stability(emergency venting).

Mass radiation would require either a massive rupture of the reactor vessel or numerous (were talking weeks to months) of emergency ventilations.

Edit: And time for me to get some sleep. I sleep with the radio on though so if something major happens and I hear it I'll be back.


----------



## SOCOM_HERO

good news on ***ushima II, but that explosion at reactor 3 sure was unsettling, even if it was a hydrogen one just like reactor 1. Hopefully that plant can completely finish the shutdown and coolant procedures.







The mixed reports on radiation being released and spread to the USS Reagan don't seem good.


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *8-Ball*


I don't understand.

First, that a meltdown is possible.

Then some users here say that it is NOT possible.

And they will NEVER explode.

But...if the cooling system is down and it is obviously overheating, then there IS possibility of it exploding due to the heat?

And mass radiation in the air is possible either way right?

I think there should be an FAQ on the OP as well, but the OP has done enough work on the updating.

+REP for him by the way.


This type of reactor would not explode Chernobyl style from a meltdown. It would release massive amounts of radiation but it would not explode. Don't think massive mushroom cloud, the material isn't nearly enriched enough. The reactor could explode from *pressure* but it wouldn't be a nuclear explosion due to fission.


----------



## gbrilliantq

The amount of nuclear power plants seems alittle much for the size of that island...

I hope everything will be alright. Great thread btw.


----------



## overclockthesun

An extremely shallow thread. Everyone here is worried about how this will affect the US or Canada. Has anyone for once thought about the actual victims: the Japanese. Waht about them if anything does happen? Nope I dont think so. Very insular thinking. Grow up people, you guys will have a couple of days to your behinds outta there. The Japs wont. Seems kinda ironic, if it actually happens would be like a wierd payback for the 2 n bombs.... now start the flaring please


----------



## fg2chase

NOT GOOD... A Good friend of mine is on the Ronald Reagan!


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:



Originally Posted by *overclockthesun*


An extremely shallow thread. Everyone here is worried about how this will affect the US or Canada. Has anyone for once thought about the actual victims: the Japanese.


Most of use do, XD_1171 is a paranoid goat like animal imo.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *overclockthesun;12723592*
> An extremely shallow thread. Everyone here is worried about how this will affect the US or Canada. Has anyone for once thought about the actual victims: the Japanese. Waht about them if anything does happen? Nope I dont think so. Very insular thinking. Grow up people, you guys will have a couple of days to your behinds outta there. The Japs wont. Seems kinda ironic, if it actually happens would be like a wierd payback for the 2 n bombs.... now start the flaring please


People worried about their own safety? how ignorant of them!! human nature bro. if u say you were not worried about yourself and your family about the news before coming into this thread and educating yourself., your a damned liar


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *overclockthesun;12723592*
> An extremely shallow thread. Everyone here is worried about how this will affect the US or Canada. Has anyone for once thought about the actual victims: the Japanese. Waht about them if anything does happen? Nope I dont think so. Very insular thinking. Grow up people, you guys will have a couple of days to your behinds outta there. The Japs wont. Seems kinda ironic, if it actually happens would be like a wierd payback for the 2 n bombs.... now start the flaring please


in all honesty, i will admit, that i was/am more worried about the future of nuclear acceptance. Just like Chernobyl, people will be all paranoid and stuff, and not let society progress.

I'm going to sound like a jerk here, so *flamesuit activate*:

Put it into perspective.

The Japanese populous will recover in a few years max.

Nuclear power was just BEGINNING to be accepted again, 25 years after the Chernobyl meltdown.

No disrespect meant to the Japanese here, my condolences go out to all affected.


----------



## Telimektar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbrilliantq;12723566*
> The amount of nuclear power plants seems alittle much for the size of that island...
> 
> I hope everything will be alright. Great thread btw.


We have 58 plants here in france compared to their 55 and we have less than half their populations, granted we don't have their earthquakes problem.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *overclockthesun;12723592*
> An extremely shallow thread. Everyone here is worried about how this will affect the US or Canada. Has anyone for once thought about the actual victims: the Japanese. Waht about them if anything does happen? Nope I dont think so. Very insular thinking. Grow up people, you guys will have a couple of days to your behinds outta there. The Japs wont. Seems kinda ironic, if it actually happens would be like a wierd payback for the 2 n bombs.... now start the flaring please


People are naturally selfish. The majority of us who frequent this forum live in the US and Canada and of course we'd be worried about our own safety. That's human nature.

Oh and comparing possible nuclear fallout to an event that happened 65 years ago during a time of war is moronic.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ljason8eg;12723720*
> People are naturally selfish. The majority of us who frequent this forum live in the US and Canada and of course we'd be worried about our own safety. That's human nature.
> 
> Oh and comparing possible nuclear fallout to an event that happened 65 years ago during a time of war is moronic.


yep, i practically said the same thing above.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock;12723733*
> yep, i practically said the same thing above.


Didn't see ya there.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

It would really help if the news outlets would emphasize that these issues rooted from the tsunami disabling the backup generators; otherwise there would never have been a problem. I mean, as far as we're aware, the facilities weren't actually damaged by the quake, it was the tsunami that started it.


----------



## XAslanX

A couple of articles I found interesting

http://classic.cnbc.com/id/42065814

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3465322/Tokyo-nuke-cloud-crisis-after-Japan-earthquake.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News


----------



## pjBSOD

Where did XD go? I missed him having scientific replies to every update.

On a side note, if a lot of you are interested in this, I suggest you check out the documentary on scientists exploring Chernobyl's sarcophagus. Very interesting.


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *E-Peen;12723807*
> Where did XD go? I missed him having scientific replies to every update.


He packed his bags and ran when he heard that an american military ship got radiation in the pacific ocean, or are you thinking of damric?


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *E-Peen;12723807*
> Where did XD go? I missed him having scientific replies to every update.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *E-Peen;12723807*
> On a side note, if a lot of you are interested in this, I suggest you check out the documentary on scientists exploring Chernobyl's sarcophagus. Very interesting.


And where did you find that?


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock;12723833*
> And where did you find that?


It's called Inside chernobyl's Sarcophagus, like E-peen said it's very interesting.


----------



## pjBSOD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock;12723833*
> And where did you find that?


Pretty sure an individual linked it earlier in this thread. Definitely wasn't you, though. Pretty sure it was XD.









Heh, for all we know he was the cameraman.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eagle1337;12723844*
> It's called Inside chernobyl's Sarcophagus, like E-peen said it's very interesting.


i keed, i posted the link to it many pages ago. e-peen repped me for it, lol


----------



## Telimektar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;12723771*
> It would really help if the news outlets would emphasize that these issues rooted from the tsunami disabling the backup generators; otherwise there would never have been a problem. I mean, as far as we're aware, the facilities weren't actually damaged by the quake, it was the tsunami that started it.


Regardless it if was the quake or the tsunami people shouldn't discard nuclear power because of that incident, ecologists were protesting today in Paris and I'm really disgusted by that, people shhould realize that if we were to replace our 58 nuclear power plants here in france by windmills (sp?) plants we would need 31500 of them, I'm sick of people pushing for solar and wind power, sure it's a good source for "bonus" power, but if you worked as an electrician in heavy industry like I did you'd realised that it's a joke when it comes to supply any kind of real energy.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *overclockthesun;12723592*
> Has anyone for once thought about the actual victims: the Japanese. Waht about them if anything does happen? Nope I dont think so. Very insular thinking.


Nothing wrong with people looking after themselves.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *overclockthesun;12723592*
> Seems kinda ironic, if it actually happens would be like a wierd payback for the 2 n bombs.... now start the flaring please


This is as idiotic a statement as those who think Japan's current situation is payback for Pearl Harbor.

99% of the people who had anything to do with Pearl Harbor, or the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, are dead. There is no payback of any kind to be had on either side.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

people who think that are just dumb, im sorry. These are human beings trying to save where they were born and raised. How they are doing this after these events is just amazing. They will shutdown these reactors and everyone will be able to focus on building japan again.


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless;12723925*
> This is as idiotic a statement as those who think Japan's current situation is payback for Pearl Harbor.
> 
> 99% of the people who had anything to do with Pearl Harbor, or the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, are dead. There is no payback of any kind to be had on either side.


And as they say old wounds heal with time. Those who were around more then likely wouldn't want payback anyways..


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Telimektar;12723887*
> Regardless it if was the quake or the tsunami people shouldn't discard nuclear power because of that incident, ecologists were protesting today in Paris and I'm really disgusted by that, people shhould realize that if we were to replace our 58 nuclear power plants here in france by windmills (sp?) plants we would need 31500 of them, I'm sick of people pushing for solar and wind power, sure it's a good source for "bonus" power, but if you worked as an electrician in heavy industry like I did you'd realised that it's a joke when it comes to supply any kind of real energy.


I know, it is ridiculous. Even a tiny bit of research on power outputs of both solar and wind shows that it is impossible as of now to use them as main power sources. The best part is while these people who claim to be for the environment attempt to block nuclear advancement they only harm the environment further while we burn more and more fossil fuels and coal to make up for the ever increasing need of energy.


----------



## AdvanSuper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless;12723925*
> This is as idiotic a statement as those who think Japan's current situation is payback for Pearl Harbor.
> 
> 99% of the people who had anything to do with Pearl Harbor, or the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, are dead. There is no payback of any kind to be had on either side.


All the idiots posting on FB and other various places saying it's payback/karma are annoying. We dropped 2 nukes on them and the estimated death toll was around 200k compared to the 2k+ in Pearl Harbor. I'm also fairly certain 100% of the people saying it weren't even born in that time.


----------



## gbrilliantq

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Telimektar;12723708*
> We have 58 plants here in france compared to their 55 and we have less than half their populations, granted we don't have their earthquakes problem.


Really, I guess I haven't really looked into Nuclear plants enough. Thanks for the info.


----------



## CStylen

apparently #2 just lost all of its coolant...

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv

DeltaDataCenter says: Japan Nuclear Safety Commission CONFIRMS Reactor 2 Cooling functions have stopped


----------



## Telimektar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdvanSuper;12724115*
> All the idiots posting on FB and other various places saying it's payback/karma are annoying. We dropped 2 nukes on them and the estimated death toll was around 200k compared to the 2k+ in Pearl Harbor. I'm also fairly certain 100% of the people saying it weren't even born in that time.


Everyone focuses on the nuclear bombings when it comes to atrocitiess commited by the US during WW2 but the fire bombing on Tokyo and other urban areas actually caused more casualties than the bombings on Nagasaki and Hiroshima, regardless nobody can say it was an honorable way to end the war.


----------



## Ocnewb

*I'm not sure if this piece of news is true or not so if someone could verify it pls post:*
Quote:


> Special USAF aircraft have detected large amounts of Radioactivity over the mid-north Pacific region. The radiation cloud could make landfall in western North America within 24 hours.
> 
> The WC-135 Constant Phoenix is a special purpose aircraft derived from the Boeing C-135 and used by the United States Air Force. Its mission is to collect samples from the atmosphere for the purpose of detecting and identifying nuclear explosions. It is also informally referred to as the "weather bird" or "the sniffer" by workers on the program.
> 
> 100 members of the [Canadian Forces] Disaster Assistance Response Team (DART) deployed to Vancouver BC, Canada,
> Province of BC emergency program relocated to Kamploops
> 300 ICU beds made available in Vancouver and Victoria Hospitals
> Scrubbing(decontamination washing) of long range surveillance aircraft at west coast and Hawaii Airbases
> A tip from a reader: Sure sign of imminent radioactive fallout&#8230; milk dairies quit collecting milk for human consumption, this happened previously with large Soviet nuclear test and after Chernobyl.


----------



## Eagle1337

False AFAIK.... but don't let XD see that post... Soon as he sees Radiation + Canada he freaks out.


----------



## XAslanX

^ Very likely, see this map http://www.stormsurfing.com/cgi/display_alt.cgi?a=glob_250


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XAslanX;12724217*
> ^ Very likely, see this map http://www.stormsurfing.com/cgi/display_alt.cgi?a=glob_250


Look at Chernobyl though for example, It went the opposite way.
edit: They seem to be grasping at straws especially with a few sites claiming a Chernobyl is happening.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Cooling pumps in #2 lost power. Pressure in #2 is rising. Emergency venting is being considered. There's a possibility of another explosion.







enough already, dammit!


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12724245*
> Cooling pumps in #2 lost power. Pressure in #2 is rising. Emergency venting is being considered. There's a possibility of another explosion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> enough already, dammit!


This is just not Japans weekend, hopefully they get it back under control. Hadn't heard much about #2 till now.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> *I'm not sure if this piece of news is true or not so if someone could verify it pls post:*
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Special USAF aircraft have detected large amounts of Radioactivity over the mid-north Pacific region. The radiation cloud could make landfall in western North America within 24 hours.
> 
> The WC-135 Constant Phoenix is a special purpose aircraft derived from the Boeing C-135 and used by the United States Air Force. Its mission is to collect samples from the atmosphere for the purpose of detecting and identifying nuclear explosions. It is also informally referred to as the "weather bird" or "the sniffer" by workers on the program.
> 
> 100 members of the [Canadian Forces] Disaster Assistance Response Team (DART) deployed to Vancouver BC, Canada,
> Province of BC emergency program relocated to Kamploops
> 300 ICU beds made available in Vancouver and Victoria Hospitals
> Scrubbing(decontamination washing) of long range surveillance aircraft at west coast and Hawaii Airbases
> A tip from a reader: Sure sign of imminent radioactive fallout&#8230; milk dairies quit collecting milk for human consumption, this happened previously with large Soviet nuclear test and after Chernobyl.
Click to expand...

This has me very worried. What do I do? Is there anything I can do?


----------



## Ocnewb

Although i don't trust Fox news but this piece from them:
Quote:


> U.S. Fleet: Ships, Aircraft Moved Away From Japan Nuke Plant After Low Level Radiation Dose.


And..
Quote:


> U.S. Detects Radiation 60 Miles From Stricken Plant
> 
> "As the scale of Japan's nuclear crisis begins to come to light, experts in Japan and the United States say the country is now facing a cascade of accumulating problems that suggest that radioactive releases of steam from the crippled plants could go on for weeks or even months.
> 
> The emergency flooding of two stricken reactors with seawater and the resulting steam releases are a desperate step intended to avoid a much bigger problem: a full meltdown of the nuclear cores in two reactors at the ***ushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station. "


----------



## Ocnewb

I'm not sure, and i don't even know if that piece of news is true or not so don't take it too seriously imo.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;12724275*
> This has me very worried. What do I do? Is there anything I can do?


----------



## IKIKUINTHENUTZ

/me looks at his CDV-700 just in case for emergency


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ocnewb;12724279*
> Although i don't trust Fox news but this piece from them:


The fox news is correct there is radiation falling in the water around japan, but it also breaks down in hours too.

edit: Kurt this has been reported a few times.


----------



## kurt1288

Posting excepts from Fox on here is likely to get you flamed pretty hard. Until every major news starts reporting it and there's official confirmation on something serious, I'm not going to trust anything. There's too much speculation and fear-mongering, especially on the American news networks (not just Fox).


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;12724275*
> This has me very worried. What do I do? Is there anything I can do?


keep calm?


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;12724275*
> This has me very worried. What do I do? Is there anything I can do?


Considering this hasn't been reported by any credible news source as far as I know of I have doubts of its validity. On top of that considering there *hasn't* been a full meltdown as far as anyone knows and if there is a cloud of radioactive material on its way it is unlikely that it would be very strong and much of it would dissipate prior to reaching the western shore anyway.


----------



## Ocnewb

Edited: Seem like old news.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;12724312*
> keep calm?


I can't keep calm. I was freaking out about a comet possibly hitting the Earth later this year too, until I read up on it more.

This...there IS no reading up on it. All I can do is hit F5 repeatedly here, as its the only place I trust.


----------



## scyy

I see you edited your post, I will as well.


----------



## Scorpion87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;12724342*
> This...there IS no reading up on it. All I can do is hit F5 repeatedly here, as its the only place I trust.


QFT, thats was i do too


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eagle1337;12724305*
> The fox news is correct there is radiation falling in the water around japan, but it also breaks down in hours too.
> 
> edit: Kurt this has been reported a few times.


Where? CNN, BBC, and AJ don't mention anything about radiation being detected in the waters off Japan (or if they did, I missed it).


----------



## DesertRat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;12724342*
> I can't keep calm. I was freaking out about a comet possibly hitting the Earth later this year too, until I read up on it more.
> 
> This...there IS no reading up on it. All I can do is hit F5 repeatedly here, as its the only place I trust.


So far it looks like BBC is trustworthy. CNN is laggy, and if you're wearing a tinfoil hat, liable to be manipulated more so. Fox, is more sensationalist then fix things as they go along, and that's putting it kindly.

so, don't panic over anything till you get solid confirmed news.

TBCH regardless everyone's gonna get at least a lil radiation from this incident eventually. I'm gonna get some potassium iodine pills and some water 2mrw, but besides that I'm not terribly frightened and will take it as it comes.


----------



## Ktulu

lol stop freaking people out. You aren't helping by posting alarming news, its all hearsay at this point.

Also all the information you are posting newb is a a day old. We'd be dead by now if you were sounding the alarm lol.


----------



## solidsteel144

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;12724342*
> I can't keep calm. I was freaking out about a comet possibly hitting the Earth later this year too, until I read up on it more.
> 
> This...there IS no reading up on it. All I can do is hit F5 repeatedly here, as its the only place I trust.


Don't panic...
Though I think reactor 2's roof is about to go boom.


----------



## Ocnewb

I thought the piece about US Navy moved further out of the Nuclear plant is breaking news that just in..boo.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ktulu;12724393*
> lol stop freaking people out. You aren't helping by posting alarming news, its all hearsay at this point.
> 
> Also all the information you are posting newb is a a day old. We'd be dead by now if you were sounding the alarm lol.


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solidsteel144;12724398*
> Don't panic...
> Though I think reactor 2's roof is about to go boom.


More then likely tbh, but it should be like reactor 1 and 3, They'll also vent it too.


----------



## Acroma

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solidsteel144;12724398*
> Don't panic...
> Though I think reactor 2's roof is about to go boom.


This is not good for the west coast..... Meh I don't like this time period anyways. All on my B-day too.... Don't think I'll ever forget this one.


----------



## reflex99

If i understand Nuclear technology correctly:

If some sort of radiation cloud does even reach our shore, it is HIGHLY unlikely that it will cause many problems.

Correct me if wrong please


----------



## solidsteel144

As long as the fuel doesn't breach the containment area it shouldn't be too bad.
Now if it does breach the massive concrete containment area... Oh my.

It wouldn't be as bad as Chernobyl though.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solidsteel144;12724438*
> As long as the fuel doesn't breach the containment area it shouldn't be too bad.
> Now if it does breach the massive concrete containment area... Oh my.
> 
> It wouldn't be as bad as Chernobyl though.


no where close to Chernobyl


----------



## Telimektar

I have only a basic understanding for nuclear power as I only examined it brefly in detail when I was formed to be a electrician but even if it was an event as bad as Chernobyl (which is unlikely) the radioactive cloud would be onlyy as bad as it xas on Western Europe in 1986 on the US and Candian western coast, which means not life threatening at all.


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> After the blast of Unit 3, the cooling function of Unit 2 was stopped. Injection of sea water into Unit 2 is now being prepared.


So in other words the reactor 3 explosion took out number 2's pumps..


----------



## solidsteel144

Maybe the occasional cancer... Birth defects.


----------



## Shredicus

So many whiners and nail-biters in here. Too bad that civilization has caused stagnation in the natural selection process.

yes, all of you are going to get cancer and grow extra arms.

DEAL WITH IT.... .gif


----------



## Speedster159

My TV has been on CNN since friday..


----------



## robchaos

The u.s. Government is now payinga little more attention to the fact that the west cost will be facing some trouble if those reactors have or will go into full melt down. There is so much confliction amongst experts and news sources, but one thing that is for sure is that it seems that no one is sure about anything. All we can do is see how things unfold over the next 24 hours.


----------



## Hawk777th

http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2

Sounds like theres not much water left in the vessel read down the page.


----------



## voice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *robchaos;12725222*
> The u.s. Government is now payinga little more attention to the fact that the west cost will be facing some trouble if those reactors have or will go into full melt down.


No they aren't. These reactors aren't going into full melt down. Besides, the core is completely contained and shielded.
Quote:


> There is so much confliction amongst experts and news sources, but one thing that is for sure is that it seems that no one is sure about anything. All we can do is see how things unfold over the next 24 hours.


No there isn't. If you think there's any conflict, watch something other than Fox news.


----------



## XAslanX

Quote:


> Ron Karzmar, a physicist and engineer, helped develop and manufacture all of the control panels and nuclear sensors inside the plant 40 years ago.


Quote:


> "I'm concerned, I'm very concerned," he says. "I have yet to see anybody from the plant who's an engineer that can actually tell us what's happening - they can't see inside there because it's highly radioactive."
> 
> So far, Japanese officials say the explosion caused no damage to the inside of the reactor. But Karzmar wonders how officials know that.
> 
> "I'm not sure the politicians are terribly right because they're using some phraseology that isn't quite appropriate," he says.


http://www.seattlepi.com/local/437052_reactorman13.html


----------



## robchaos

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/

No. 2 reactor fuel rods are exposed now.
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/77854.html


----------



## Hawk777th

http://www.toledoblade.com/World/2011/03/14/second-blast-at-Japan-nuclear-plant.html

We are pulling our ships back because of radiation. This is such a joke you guys live in some other universe there have been tons of reports of radiation leaks way higher than dangerous levels! They have evacuated people, they are checking little kids for radiation in rad suits but no everything is fine no leakage Yeah right.

Hope that move along citizens nothing to see here works out for ya.


----------



## voice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XAslanX;12725255*
> http://www.seattlepi.com/local/437052_reactorman13.html


This is the only website that is going to give you accurate information:

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/default.aspx


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hawk777th;12725278*
> http://www.toledoblade.com/World/2011/03/14/second-blast-at-Japan-nuclear-plant.html
> 
> We are pulling our ships back because of radiation. This is such a joke you guys live in some other universe there have been tons of reports of radiation leaks way higher than dangerous levels! They have evacuated people, they are checking little kids for radiation in rad suits but no everything is fine no leakage Yeah right.
> 
> Hope that move along citizens nothing to see here works out for ya.


he is correct, we have military ships infected 100 miles offshore now.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42066534/ns/world_news-asiapacific/


----------



## Blameless

Not surprising there would be low level contamination for a fairly significant distance down wind.


----------



## robchaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *voice;12725249*
> No they aren't. These reactors aren't going into full melt down. Besides, the core is completely contained and shielded.
> 
> No there isn't. If you think there's any conflict, watch something other than Fox news.


Yea buddy, they have said from day one that the status of containment chambers is questionable, I have been watching many news outlets including cnn, fox, bbc, and al jazeera as this is all very interesting and heart breaking at the same time, and every few hours it seems that something that was reported as not likely to happen does happen. I am not saying that everyone on the west coast will be growing extra limbs, but the u.s. Government had officially stated that radiation should NOT be a concern UNLESS a total meltdown happens, which is a slight concern right now.


----------



## Hawk777th

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/photo/2011-03/14/c_13777725.htm

Nope no leaks everything's fine!

http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2

Fuel rods are damaged.

Guy on Japanese TV is reporting one of the reactors has MOX in it and plutonium and he is very worried.


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Pity to find out that the Fuel rods are now exposed, hopefully they can get them called asap, currently injecting seawater to try and cool them, however they only have a matter of hours to do this in. If the Fuel rods melt, the container is not designed to hold Molten metal for a long period, then there could be a breach. So let hope they an get that cooled !
Quote:


> Technicians are battling to stabilise a third reactor at a quake-stricken Japanese nuclear plant, after the latest explosion rocked the facility.
> 
> ***ushima Daiichi plant's operators said they could not rule out a fuel rod meltdown, after a cooling system broke.
> 
> *They are frantically injecting more water into reactor 2 after its fuel rods became almost fully exposed.*
> 
> A cooling system breakdown preceded explosions at the plant's reactor 3 on Monday and reactor 1 on Saturday.
> 
> The latest explosion, said to have been caused by a hydrogen build-up, injured 11 people, one of them seriously, and sent a huge column of smoke billowing into the air.
> 
> The operators are playing down any health risk and say the thick containment walls shielding the reactor cores have so far remained intact.
> 
> But the US said it had moved one of its aircraft carriers from the area after detecting low-level radiation 160km (100 miles) offshore.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12733393


----------



## Floy

This is not good at all.


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Kyodo: Fuel Rods now FULLY exposed. I am watching BBC news.


----------



## Floy

All I get on BBC News are recorded videos, strange.


----------



## v639dragoon

this is all bad...


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tizmo;12725563*
> All I get on BBC News are recorded videos, strange.


I am watching the TV but there is a live web broadcast on the website.


----------



## Floy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE;12725577*
> I am watching the TV but there is a live web broadcast on the website.


That is what I am watching now. Just recordings, nothing live. Weird.


----------



## SmokinWaffle

http://yokosonews.com/live

Is a good source for a live feed, guy called Katz, keeping up to date with all the local news and translating it into english.


----------



## Tunapiano

the latest explosion at the nuclear plant from this morning.


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tizmo;12725597*
> That is what I am watching now. Just recordings, nothing live. Weird.


Are you watching BBC news 24 ?


----------



## Tunapiano

another image from the tsunami/earthquake


----------



## SmokinWaffle

Enterprise, link to the online stream of it?


----------



## Floy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE;12725612*
> Are you watching BBC news 24 ?


Seems like the stream on the website is not the 24 hour one. Though it had live newscasting before. Only today has it been showing recordings.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698


----------



## molino

these are the live feeds to follow
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/
http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/index-e.html
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

good morning. not good news to wake to.


----------



## Rebelord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *robbo2;12722246*
> How about not building it on a tectonic plate next time.


The entire crust of the earth is multiple plates. So that won't work.


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rebelord;12725666*
> The entire crust of the earth is multiple plates. So that won't work.


haha so true, maybe build on the moon?


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tizmo;12725639*
> Seems like the stream on the website is not the 24 hour one. Though it had live newscasting before. Only today has it been showing recordings.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698


Hmm they must have changed it


----------



## Epitope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12725617*
> another image from the tsunami/earthquake


That's one tough little building. Everything around it got washed away and it is holding up that big boat and still standing.


----------



## Floy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE;12725681*
> Hmm they must have changed it


Is this stream the same as on TV?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10318089

This is different than the other one, which is only playing recordings.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Reuters: Tepco says it has opened the steam relief valve at Daiichi's no.2 reactor.

*crosses fingers* no boom, please.

EDIT:
Reuters: Tepco says water levels have risen, and the fuel rods are now only half-exposed.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

pictures of these kids getting scanned for radiation breaks my heart.


----------



## SmokinWaffle

On YokosoNews they just said that the Fuel Road is around 3.4M in length, and only 70CM of it is covered, I missed what reactor it was, though.


----------



## Ecchi-BANZAII!!!

REP man, REP to you Lampen.


----------



## Zen00

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12725676*
> haha so true, maybe build on the moon?


Even the moon experiences some earthquakes. Albeit much smaller than the Earths.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12725742*
> On YokosoNews they just said that the Fuel Road is around 3.4M in length, and only 70CM of it is covered, I missed what reactor it was, though.


According to Kyodo News, the water level is now at 2 metres (Reactor #2)


----------



## snoball

So the first explosion was not that bad and controlled now. From what I read here I assume that the explosion last night was the worst so far and now the fuel rods might be melting? That is not good at all. If this ends up being a nuclear disaster it will be the first one in my life, I am 17. My mother says this is much much worse than TMI.


----------



## SmokinWaffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zen00;12725811*
> Even the moon experiences some earthquakes. Albeit much smaller than the Earths.


That, and you know, the no oxygen thing.







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12725814*
> According to Kyodo News, the water level is now at 2 metres (Reactor #2)


Yeah I just read that.

And this, which is interesting.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball;12725817*
> My mother says this is much much worse than TMI.


For the moment your mother is wrong. On the International Nuclear Event Scale (from 0 to 7), TMI is rated 5. ***ushima, at the moment, is at 4 (Chernobyl is, of course, at 7).
Let's all hope it stays that way.


----------



## snoball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12725877*
> For the moment your mother is wrong. On the International Nuclear Event Scale (from 0 to 7), TMI is at 5. ***ushima, at the moment, is at 4.
> Let's all hope it stays that way.


How could that be if explosions have occurred. These Japanese built housings must be good. [cliche]Japanese always build better, higher quality[/cliche] But seriously, I don't see this ending well. I have a suspicion that some information is withheld here. I can not buy in to the idea that I saw a giant explosion and the reactor suffered little damage, just coolant imbalance.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball;12725905*
> How could that be if explosions have occurred. These Japanese built housings must be good. [cliche]Japanese always build better, higher quality[/cliche] But seriously, I don't see this ending well. I have a suspicion that some information is withheld here. I can not buy in to the idea that I saw a giant explosion and the reactor suffered little damage, just coolant imbalance.


Go back to page 80 in this thread and watch the video of a fighter jet crashing into a reactor containment building wall at 500mph. Hope that clears up your doubts


----------



## snoball

Watched that video. Strong freakin walls. The reactor must be OK then. Will check back later. GTG now.


----------



## Lampen

Good morning everyone. Currently reviewing all sites and streams OP update will be incoming in the next 10 minutes.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12726008*
> Good morning everyone. Currently reviewing all sites and streams OP update will be incoming in the next 10 minutes.


Morning~
Thanks for the hard work. Let's cross our fingers and keep knocking wooden surfaces 24/7


----------



## molino

update on ***ushima Daiichi #2 reactor
_Jiji from TEPCO is reporting that the fuel rods have been left fully exposed at the comlpex's number 2 reactor as levels of water coolant have fallen.
_Tepco says parts of the fuel rods have been damaged.
_Tepco says it has opened the steam relief valve at Daiichi's no.2 reactor.
_Tepco says water levels have risen, and the fuel rods are now only half-exposed.
kyodo also reported that the fuel rods has been fully exposed for about 2.5 hours which obviously caused partial meltdown thus radioactive steam released due to the high pressure

edit: the nhk world live english coverage of the Japanese news has ended after the press conference at 9PM EST so our only reliable translated news feed from japan is this broadcast http://yokosonews.com/live more news from tepco to come


----------



## rocstar96

I hope this doest reach the philippines


----------



## Lampen

OP updated with all available, confirmed information and news posts.

Edit: News Flash - Concerns about a possible radiation leak from the ***ushima plant have sparked a run on iodine tablets in Finland, AFP reports. The country's nuclear safety chiefs say there is no need for people there to be buying iodine


----------



## Lampen

New video from Reuters. Thanks to molino for bringing it to my attention.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSs61fEiBQM[/ame]


----------



## Tunapiano

this is a time lapse photo of the explosion this morning.


----------



## Floy

Hmmm.
Quote:


> 1422: Japanese engineer Masashi Goto, who helped design the containment vessel for ***ushima's reactor core, says the design was not enough to withstand earthquakes or tsunamis and the plant's builders, Toshiba, knew this. More on Mr Goto's remarks to follow.


Quote:


> 1426: Mr Goto says his greatest fear is that blasts at number 3 and number 1 reactors may have damaged the steel casing of the containment vessel designed to stop radioactive material escaping into the atmosphere. More to follow.


Quote:


> 1431: More from Japanese nuclear engineer Masashi Goto: He say that as the reactor uses mox (mixed oxide) fuel, the melting point is lower than that of conventional fuel. Should a meltdown and an explosion occur, he says, plutonium could be spread over an area up to twice as far as estimated for a conventional nuclear fuel explosion. The next 24 hours are critical, he says.


----------



## wire

What is the worst case scenario at this current moment?


----------



## rocstar96

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12726517*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is a time lapse photo of the explosion this morning.


it looks like a mushroom cloud?


----------



## IzorkX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rocstar96;12726641*
> it looks like a mushroom cloud?


What I thought too :/ But I guess it's just a regular explosion - 'm not expert at this field tho.


----------



## Lampen

Yeah I saw that interview with Masashi Goto. I'd be interested to see his evidence that Toshiba Heavy Industries knew that their designed wouldn't be able to survive an earthquake/tsunami considering Plant #1 has been taking hits from both for decades. I remember reading somewhere that all the reactors in Plant #1's reactors were all designed to survive at least 8.0 earthquakes. Didn't see anything on tsunami's though.

It looks like a mushroom cloud?

Ok first of all you will never see a mushroom cloud coming out of a nuclear power plant unless some drops an actual NUCLEAR WEAPON on it. The Uranium and Plutonium used in nuclear reactors is barely enriched, usually somewhere between 3-5% purity. You need an absolute minimum of 20% purity to use it in a nuclear device. However when you have incredibly low purity you need a TON of nuclear material to create a weapon. The more pure your material is, the less you need of it. Hence why the nuclear material in modern warheads can typically be held in your cupped hands.

Anyway it doesn't really look like a mushroom cloud, but the shape is generated by the explosion moving upward and outward and then the steam that was still being released from the reactor was continuing to push the debris cloud upward producing the shape.


----------



## SpuddGunn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rocstar96;12726641*
> it looks like a mushroom cloud?


Most large explosions make a 'mushroom' cloud, its not limited to only nuclear/atomic explosions.


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rocstar96;12726115*
> I hope this doest reach the philippines


Probably won't, winds are eastbound this time around so I'm gonna be getting all the horror








I've already seen the explosion, I found the footage on YouTube and posted it here first back around page 69... it looked pretty big, and I'm surprised it didn't damage the containment building


----------



## molino

bbc did a great job covering all the most asked questions
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12732015
also TEPCO posted the lastest status on the Plant Status of ***ushima Daini
Quote:


> Press Release (Mar 14,2011)
> Plant Status of ***ushima Daini Nuclear Power Station (as of 8:00 am March 14th)
> [New Items are underlined]
> 
> Unit 1 (shut down at 2:48pm on March 11th)
> - Reactor is shut down and reactor water level is stable.
> - Offsite power is available.
> - At 8:19am, Mar 12th, there was an alarm indicating that one of the
> control rods was not properly inserted, however, at 10:43am, Mar 12th
> the alarm was spontaneously called off. Other control rods has been
> confirmed that they are fully inserted (reactor is in subcritical
> status)
> - Status of main steam isolation valve: closed
> - Injection of water into the reactor is done by Make-up Water Condensate
> System.
> - We do not believe there is leakage of reactor coolant in the containment
> vessel at this moment.
> - At 5:22am, Mar 12th, the temperature of the suppression chamber exceeded
> 100 degrees. As the reactor pressure suppression function was lost, at
> 5:22am, Mar 12th, it was determined that a specific incident stipulated
> in article 15, clause 1 has occurred.
> - We decided to prepare implementing measures to reduce the pressure of
> the reactor containment vessel (partial discharge of air containing
> radioactive materials) in order to fully secure safety. This preparation
> work started at around 9:43am, Mar 12th and finished at 6:30pm, Mar 12th.
> - Restoration work in reactor cooling function that was conducted to
> achieve reactor cold shutdown has been completed and cooling of the
> reactor has been commenced at 1:24 am, Mar 14th.
> 
> Unit 2 (shut down at 2:48pm on March 11th)
> - Reactor is shut down and reactor water level is stable.
> - Offsite power is available.
> - Control rods are fully inserted (reactor is in subcritical status)
> - Status of main steam isolation valve: closed
> - Injection of water into the reactor is done by Make-up Water Condensate
> System.
> - We do not believe there is leakage of reactor coolant in the containment
> vessel.
> - At 5:32am, Mar 12th, the temperature of the suppression chamber exceeded
> 100 degrees. As the reactor pressure suppression function was lost,
> at 5:32am, Mar 12th, it was determined that a specific incident
> stipulated in article 15, clause 1 has occurred.
> - We decided to prepare implementing measures to reduce the pressure of
> the reactor containment vessel (partial discharge of air containing
> radioactive materials) in order to fully secure safety. This preparation
> work started at around 10:33am, Mar 12th and finished at 10:58pm, Mar
> 12th.
> - Restoration work in reactor cooling function is in progress to achieve
> reactor cold shutdown.
> - Restoration work in reactor cooling function that was conducted to
> achieve reactor cold shutdown has been completed and cooling of the
> reactor has been commenced at 7:13 am, Mar 14th.
> 
> Unit 3 (shut down at 2:48pm on March 11th)
> - Reactor is shut down and reactor water level is stable.
> - Offsite power is available.
> - Control rods are fully inserted (reactor is in subcritical status)
> - Status of main steam isolation valve: closed
> - We do not believe there is leakage of reactor coolant in the containment
> vessel.
> - We decided to prepare implementing measures to reduce the pressure of
> the reactor containment vessel (partial discharge of air containing
> radioactive materials) in order to fully secure safety. The preparation
> woke started at around 12:08pm, Mar 12th and finished at 12:13pm, Mar
> 12th.
> - Reactor cold shutdown at 12:15pm, Mar 12th
> 
> Unit 4 (shut down at 2:48pm on March 11th)
> - Reactor is shut down and reactor water level is stable.
> - Offsite power is available.
> - At 0:43PM, there was a signal indicating that one of the control rods
> may have not properly inserted. However, we confirmed that it was
> inserted completely by another signal. We will inspect the reason of
> this.
> - Status of main steam isolation valve: closed
> - Injection of water into the reactor is done by Make-up Water Condensate
> System.
> - We do not believe there is leakage of reactor coolant in the containment
> vessel.
> - In order to cool down the reactor, injection of water into the reactor
> had been done by the Reactor Core Isolation Cooling System, however,
> At 6:07am, Mar 12th, the temperature of the suppression chamber exceeded
> 100 degrees. As the reactor pressure suppression function was lost, at
> 6:07am, Mar 12th, it was determined that a specific incident stipulated
> in article 15, clause 1 has occurred.
> - We decided to prepare implementing measures to reduce the pressure of
> the reactor containment vessel (partial discharge of air containing
> radioactive materials) in order to fully secure safety. The preparation
> woke started at around 11:44am, Mar 12th and finished at around 11:52am,
> Mar 12th.
> - Restoration work in reactor cooling function is in progress to achieve
> reactor cold shutdown.
> 
> Indication from monitoring posts installed at the site boundary did not
> show any difference from ordinary level.
> No radiation impact to the external environment has been confirmed. We
> will continue to monitor in detail the possibility of radioactive material
> being discharged from exhaust stack or discharge canal.


and also few confirmation on what happened at ***ushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station Unit 3
Quote:


> Press Release (Mar 14,2011)
> Plant Status of ***ushima Daini Nuclear Power Station (as of 8:00 am March 14th)
> At approximately 11:01am, an explosion followed by white smoke occurred
> at the reactor building of Unit 3. It was believed to be a hydrogen
> explosion.
> 
> According to the parameter, it is believed that the reactor containment
> vessel remains intact. However, the status of the plant and the impact
> of radioactive materials to the outside environment are presently under
> investigation. (previously announced)
> 
> As of 1:30 pm, 4 TEPCO employees and 3 workers from other companies have
> sustained injuries (all of them are conscious). 3 ambulances are in
> operation to care for them and 2 have already dispatched the casualties
> to the hospital.
> 
> As of 0:30 pm, the measured value of radiation dose near MP6 was 4μSv/h.
> The increase of the radiation dose cannot be confirmed at this time.
> 
> As of 0:30 pm, the measured value of radiation dose at the monitoring
> post in ***ushima Daini Power Station located approximately 10 km south
> of ***ushima Daiichi Power Station remains at the same level.
> 
> In light of the incidents that have occurred at Units 1 and 3, we are
> considering applying prevention measures to the wall of the reactor
> building to ventilate the hydrogen gas contained in Unit 2.
> 
> TEPCO continues to take all measures to restore the safety and security
> of the site and are monitoring the site's immediate surroundings.


----------



## Lampen

Op Updated with Q&A Section -

*To help people understand what has happened during the Japanese Nuclear Crisis BBC has provided the following Q&A:*

There have been two explosions at the ***ushima Daiichi nuclear power plant in Japan, following Friday's earthquake and tsunami, and a third reactor is reportedly at risk of fuel-rod meltdown.

*Has there been a leakage of radioactive material?*

It appears so. An American warship, the USS Ronald Reagan, has detected low levels of radiation at a distance of 100 miles (161km) from the ***ushima plant.

*How much radioactive material has escaped?*

This is not clear. The Japanese authorities say only very low levels of radiation have been detected outside the plant. The IAEA has described it as a level four event on the International Nuclear and Radiological Event Scale (INES), which is used for an accident "with local consequences". No abnormal levels of radiation have yet been detected in Russia.

*What type of radioactive material has escaped?*

There are reports of radioactive isotopes of caesium and iodine in the vicinity of the plant. Experts say it would be natural for radioactive isotopes of nitrogen and argon to have escaped as well. There is no evidence that any uranium or plutonium has escaped.

*What harm do these radioactive materials cause?*

Radioactive iodine could be harmful to young people in the vicinity of the plant. After the 1986 Chernobyl nuclear disaster there were some cases of thyroid cancer as a result. People who were promptly issued with iodine tablets ought to be safe, however. Radioactive caesium, uranium and plutonium are harmful, but do not target any particular organ of the body. Radioactive nitrogen decays within seconds of its release, and argon poses no threat to health.

_*Q&A: Health effects of radiation*_

*How did the radioactive materials escape?*

It appears that there have been problems with the power supply to pumps that fill the reactors with water, causing the reactors to overheat. When steam has built up to dangerous levels, small amounts have been vented. Experts say that the presence of caesium and iodine in the steam suggests that the metal casing of some of the fuel rods has melted or broken. Uranium has a very high melting point so it is unlikely to have melted, still less vapourised.

*Could radioactive materials have escaped by any other means?*

The authorities have pumped sea water into three reactors. This water will be contaminated by its passage through the reactor, but it is currently unclear whether any of it has been released into the environment.

*How long will any contamination last?*

Radioactive iodine decays quite quickly. Most will have disappeared within a month. Radioactive caesium does not last long in the body - most has gone within a year. However, it lingers in the environment and can continue to present a risk.

*Has there been a meltdown?*

The term "meltdown" is used in a variety of ways. As noted above, the reported detection of radioactive caesium and iodine may indicate that some of the metal casing enclosing the reactors' uranium fuel has melted (a "fuel-rod meltdown"). However, there is as yet no indication that the uranium fuel itself has melted. Still less is there any indication of a "China Syndrome" where the fuel melts, gathers below the reactor and resumes a chain reaction, that enables it to melt everything in its way, and bore a path deep into the earth. If there were to be a serious meltdown, the Japanese reactor is supposed to be able to handle it, preventing the China Syndrome from taking place. Reports suggest that underneath the reactor, within the outer containment vessel, there is a concrete basin designed to capture and disperse any molten fuel.

*Could there be a Chernobyl-like disaster?*

Experts say this is highly unlikely. The chain reaction at all ***ushima reactors has ceased and reactor 1 is reported already to be in a stable condition. The explosions that have occurred have taken place outside the steel and concrete containment vessels enclosing the reactors, which apparently remain solid. At Chernobyl an explosion exposed the core of the reactor to the air, and a fire raged for days sending its contents in a plume up into the atmosphere. At ***ushima the explosions - caused by hydrogen and oxygen vented from the reactor - have damaged only the roof and walls erected around the containment vessels.

*Could there be a nuclear explosion?*

No. A nuclear bomb and a nuclear reactor are different things.

*What caused the hydrogen release from the reactor?*

At high temperatures, steam can separate into hydrogen and oxygen in the presence of zirconium, the metal used for encasing the reactor fuel. This mixture is highly explosive.

How do iodine tablets work?

If the body has all the iodine it needs, it will not absorb further iodine from the atmosphere. The tablets fill the body up with non-radioactive iodine, which prevent it absorbing the radioactive iodine.

*Is any level of exposure to radiation safe?*

In some parts of the world, natural background radiation is significantly higher than others - for example in Cornwall, in south-west England. And yet people live in Cornwall, and many others gladly visit the area. Similarly, every international air flight exposes passengers to higher than normal levels of radiation - and yet people still fly, and cabin crews spend large amounts of time exposed to this radiation. Patients in hospitals regularly undergo X-rays. Scientists dispute whether any level of exposure to radiation is entirely safe, but exposure to some level of radiation - whether at normal background levels or higher - is a fact of life. We do not yet know how much higher than normal the levels around ***ushima are.

*How do ***ushima's problems affect the rest of the world?*

It depends on how much radiation is released. At present, the IAEA says the effects are of a "local" nature.


----------



## Lampen

News Flash - Water level in reactor 2 at ***ushima has fallen and nuclear fuel rods have been exposed again at the ***ushima plant, Kyodo news is reporting.


----------



## Lefty67

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rocstar96;12726641*
> it looks like a mushroom cloud?


Did you see the oil refinery explosion on the first day. Now that was a mushroom cloud.


----------



## 8-Ball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12726829*
> News Flash - Water level in reactor 2 at ***ushima has fallen and nuclear fuel rods have been exposed again at the ***ushima plant, Kyodo news is reporting.


NOW this is bad?


----------



## molino

watch the next reports guys
the reactor #2 at ***ushima Daiichi has been fully exposed twice which is really no good news
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/
watch for any flash news


----------



## Ikon

The water level is getting lower again in ***ushima I-2.


----------



## molino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8-Ball;12726907*
> NOW this is bad?


yes i have a very bad feeling right about now


----------



## JeremiahTheBullfrog

any live feeds still?


----------



## Lampen

News Flash - Fears of a partial meltdown at the ***ushima plant would appear to be growing, as Kyodo news agency reports that fuel rods in number 2 reactor are again "fully exposed".

Thank you for your understand and assistance in this matter,

Lampen


----------



## Exostenza

Great post... really gave me a full understanding of what is going on. I hope the can create a situation where only minimal effects are felt in the end and we all know if any civilization can take care of a nuclear/radiation problem it is the Japanese.

Past experience, high technological efficiency, top experts and a strong collective solidarity will pull them out of this disaster.


----------



## 8-Ball

Yea, I agree.
Lampen has put a great deal of effort into this thread so we can all be updated and discuss rational issues.
Let's not screw it up.


----------



## Rpg2

Shouldn't they be getting as much foreign nuclear help as absolutely possible right now? It's been a few days already. I hope it isn't just the Japanese trying to fix things while everyone is still on their merry way over.


----------



## molino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JeremiahTheBullfrog;12726954*
> any live feeds still?


http://yokosonews.com/live
there is a press conference in japan right now and this is the only feed translating it to english since nhk has stopped live feed at 9pm this morning

and apparently the #1 nuclear reactor at daiichi has been cold shutdown
according to katz who just translated the press conference from the minister secretary itself


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rpg2;12727006*
> Shouldn't they be getting as much foreign nuclear help as absolutely possible right now? It's been a few days already. I hope it isn't just the Japanese trying to fix things while everyone is still on their merry way over.


Japanese culture has played into the situation somewhat. Self-reliance is a venerated quality, but people are also helping one another as much as possible. People have largely been calm and collected after the disaster and are doing everything they can at the moment.

However, the Japanese Government recognizes the mistakes that were made during the Kobe earthquake when Japan was too slow to ask for assistance. In this case Japan is accepting any help that is being given regardless of the country of origin. This includes even rescue teams from China even though they have had particularly nasty disagreements over territory and natural resources lately.

I do have to praise the Japanese people in general though. No looting, rises in crime, etc after the disasters struck. I wouldn't expect to see that in my country, the US. Granted they are very different societies, but still admirable all the same.


----------



## Lampen

News Flash - Japanese broadcaster NHK is saying that pressure inside reactor 2 at ***ushima rose suddenly when the air flow gauge was "accidentally" turned off. That blocked the flow of water into the reactor leading to full exposure of the rods, it says. That report has not been confirmed.


----------



## molino

BREAKING NEWS: Radiation twice the maximum seen so far detected at nuke plant Monday: TEPCO
sry lampen


----------



## 8-Ball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *molino;12727231*
> BREAKING NEWS: Radiation twice the maximum seen so far detected at nuke plant Monday: TEPCO


Japan and the West Coat are going to be heavily exposed now right?


----------



## Red Rabbit

Anyone know if it's possible for the radiation to spread over to the west coast of the US/Canada?


----------



## solidsteel144

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8-Ball;12727249*
> Japan and the West Coat are going to be heavily exposed now right?


Depends on what you define "heavily" and for how long.
These radioactive elements would decay rapidly.


----------



## Vlasov_581

wow......what is maximum allowed time for the fuel rod to be exposed before serious irreparable damage occurs?


----------



## xXjay247Xx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Red Rabbit;12727263*
> Anyone know if it's possible for the radiation to spread over to the west coast of the US/Canada?


not at this moment, the wind is pushing the radiation out to the pacific.


----------



## solidsteel144

It depends on how long the rods are exposed.
If the temps reach around 1800c to 2000c the fuel rods will fully melt.
The concrete container could withstand around 3000c (I'm not sure about this).


----------



## snoball

This continues to get worse, not better. I now am convinced they are delaying the inevitable. I think a meltdown will occur. Too many systems are failing.


----------



## 8-Ball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vlasov_581;12727280*
> wow......what is maximum allowed time for the fuel rod to be exposed before serious irreparable damage occurs?


Moving onward, then the USS Reagan will be exposed more then.


----------



## Ding Chavez

We've had a lot of good news here and from what I've heard nuclear experts say this shouldn't be another Chernobyl. No radiation should reach outside north eastern Japan. Unless you're within 80km you should be safe.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Red Rabbit;12727263*
> Anyone know if it's possible for the radiation to spread over to the west coast of the US/Canada?


At this point it's highly unlikely. The only exposure we're seen over a considerable distance thus far was that the crew of the US Aircraft Carrier Ronald Reagon. They were about 160km from the ***ushima reactor site and passed through some of the vented vapor. However they only received a very small amount of radiation, equivalent to a month's worth of normal background radiation.

You really don't have to worry about west coast exposure.


----------



## solidsteel144

"They are trying to open the vent right now."
Reactor 2.


----------



## Lampen

News Flash - Op Updated - Japan has officially asked the UN nuclear watchdog the IAEA for experts to help in the current nuclear crisis, AFP reports, citing IAEA chief Yukiya Amano.


----------



## mega_option101

Hello Everyone,

Let's keep this thread civilized. I do not want to keep removing posts containing Religious content, these are in fact against the ToS. Please keep the discussion(s) objective and to the point.

Regards,

mega_option101


----------



## Floy

BREAKING NEWS: Radiation twice the maximum seen so far detected at nuke plant Monday: TEPCO


----------



## snoball

Japan is doing a good job managing this, just seems a little screwed up. Like i mentioned the back up failures and exposed full rods. A full meltdown may not occur, I do not fully understand the 1-7 Nuclear rating system, but this might get stepped up to a 5. This is just my own speculation. Just my


----------



## Toransu

Page count down, and thread BS gone.
Here's to the mods.









On-topic: Might not be news, but to give you guys some idea about what the situation is in the surrounding areas, there's been chain mail going about here in the Philippines.

Saying that it'd be dangerous to go out for now because of the radiation in the fumes from the plants being carried over here and causing *ACID* rain.

Yes, you read it right, it says *ACID* rain.









..And it caused a bit of panic...


----------



## Lampen

News Flash - Radiation detected at the ***ushima plant on Monday is twice the maximum seen so far, Kyodo news is reporting citing plant operator Tokyo Electric Power. Earlier in the crisis the maximum level of radiation detected was 1000 times normal background radiation. Pending official confirmation this means radiation levels may be 2000 times normal in the plant.

Also mega_option101, thank you for responding to our reports, cleaning up the offending posts and letting the thread stay open. Cheers


----------



## Kand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Toransu;12727400*
> Page count down, and thread BS gone.
> Here's to the mods.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On-topic: Might not be news, but to give you guys some idea about what the situation is in the surrounding areas, there's been chain mail going about here in the Philippines.
> 
> Saying that it'd be dangerous to go out for now because of the radiation in the fumes from the plants being carried over here and causing *ACID* rain.
> 
> Yes, you read it right, it says *ACID* rain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..And it caused a bit of panic...


And I was like. "Lol. It's fake. I havent read any of this on OCN."


----------



## xXjay247Xx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Toransu;12727400*
> Page count down, and thread BS gone.
> Here's to the mods.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On-topic: Might not be news, but to give you guys some idea about what the situation is in the surrounding areas, there's been chain mail going about here in the Philippines.
> 
> Saying that it'd be dangerous to go out for now because of the radiation in the fumes from the plants being carried over here and causing *ACID* rain.
> 
> Yes, you read it right, it says *ACID* rain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..And it caused a bit of panic...


Nah that's not true Acid rain can only occur when sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides react with rain, but im guessing you could have "Radiation rain"


----------



## Lampen

Multi-Government Announcement - Hong Kong, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore and Taiwan are to screen food imported from Japan for radiation, AFP is reporting.


----------



## Rising

On top of this and everything else, a volcano decided to blow. Last I heard, lava may be forming at the top. These people simply can't win. Natural and man-made disasters are just bearing down on them so heavily. There doesn't seem to be an end.


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xXjay247Xx;12727450*
> Nah that's not true Acid rain can only occur when sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides react with rain, but im guessing you could have "Radiation rain"


You're more likely to have acid rain from power plants burning fossil fuels than you are from this.


----------



## Red Rabbit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xXjay247Xx;12727450*
> Nah that's not true Acid rain can only occur when sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides react with rain, but im guessing you could have "Radiation rain"


Now what's worse, acid rain or radiation rain? lol


----------



## Tunapiano

well if your area is radiated enough to have radiation rain, then you're either dead, dying or in a thick heavy radiation suit.


----------



## xXjay247Xx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mega_option101;12727484*
> You're more likely to have acid rain from power plants burning fossil fuels than you are from this.


I'm pretty sure its not possible to have Acid rain from this as the plants as I am aware are not releasing any form of sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides, actually do Nuclear plants release any at all?








Also I'm guessing its possible for radiation to mix into rain.


----------



## Lampen

You could indeed have radiation rain if a significant amount of fallout was injected into the atmosphere, however there are no indications of any fallout or any radiation at all moving in the direction of the Philippines. I've been following meteorological reports since the story broke and the vast majority of the weather systems that have affected the site have been pushing the vapor released from the reactors eastward, toward the Pacific.


----------



## molino

quotes from a fellow translator on reuters
Quote:


> Rough notes from the CNIC press conference 3/14 that is just finishing.
> Comments from Masashi Goto, former Toshiba Nuclear Power Plant Designer, who helped design the containment vessel for ***ushima's reactor core
> 
> Containment vessels are not invincible and are not an adequate final line of defence. The likelihood of an earthquake directly cracking the containment vessel is very low, but as we've seen, in a natural disaster like this there is great damage to multiple systems surrounding the vessel, which is supposed to be a final, invincible line of defence. it took this earthquake to make this more widely known.
> 
> With 7 active units in close proximity, what would the ramifications be if one of them suffered a total meltdown? People working on cooling other units could no longer continue to work.
> 
> Why was there a difference between the way the two explosions looked?
> Can't say for certain but much larger amounts of hydrogen were released in #3 explosion. How much time has elapsed before hydrogen ignites also effects the severity of the explosion.
> 
> re: equating current radiation exposure to X-rays ...
> There is a fundamental difference between being exposed for an instant, and radiation that clings to your body and your clothes and being exposed for long periods of time. it is not only the momentary levels that you are exposed to that we concerned with but also the amount of time exposed. Any comments that equate these levels of exposure
> to X-rays should be made with great caution. There is no person alive that would expose the same part of their body to X-rays 3 times in a year. Radiation exposure has incremental effect. Every time you expose your body to X-rays you are increasing your level of risk.
> 
> I am skeptical as to whether the people in the government that are in charge have the technical expertise to understand what is happening and whether they have the courage to step up and give unpleasant news.


----------



## Ding Chavez

A reactor meltdown and release of radio-active material won't cause acid rain. Radio-active material can emit alpha particles, beta particles and gamma rays. High energy electro-magnetic radiation such as gamma rays are the most dangerous and cause radiation burns. Ingested radio-active material is also very dangerous.


----------



## Toransu

Well, I knew all along that the plants wouldn't have caused any acid rain, if radiation is the main concern. I had to educate a few people that "Acidity != Radioactivity".









As for the situation in the Philippines, I'm pretty sure they have the areas hit by the tsunami covered. People've been sighing relief left and right, bogus chain messages still circulating, and government still not giving much of a damn.

It's actually unsettling, since I think they fail to realize that we very well may be next. We have a good bit of infrastructure built on artificial land, a good number of volcanoes and faults, and THE worst traffic routing and emergency disaster planning (if at all).

Edit: I'm out for now. I don't feel well, and yet I gotta be up at six. Keep rockin' OCN.


----------



## jjsoviet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Toransu;12727597*
> Well, I knew all along that the plants wouldn't have caused any acid rain, if radiation is the main concern. I had to educate a few people that "Acidity != Radioactivity".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the situation in the Philippines, I'm pretty sure they have the areas hit by the tsunami covered. People've been sighing relief left and right, bogus chain messages still circulating, and government still not giving much of a damn.
> 
> It's actually unsettling, since I think they fail to realize that we very well may be next. We have a good bit of infrastructure built on artificial land, a good number of volcanoes and faults, and THE worst traffic routing and emergency disaster planning (if at all).


Heh, you're in the Phils, bro? I'm originally from there and it's unnerving how our admittedly inferior emergency planning system would respond to such a domino effect of quakes, tsunamis and the possibility of a radiation cloud coming its way. We definitely would be in a far worse situation if a calamity of that magnitude were to happen, especially those in the Manila area.


----------



## strap624

I just hope from all of this that the US doesn't decide to shut down our reactors because they are scared they will have a similar fate. It's already being talked about in the news. it's ridiculous. Just because something bad happens once every 40 years doesn't mean you stop doing it. Chances are a disaster like this will NEVER happen again. I guarantee all reactors that need it will be retrofitted to deal with a tsunami withing the next 5 years.

The truth is nuclear energy is a clean, SAFE, and very effective way of producing energy. If anything it should be implemented even further. The newer reactors in the US are FAR FAR more advanced than those in Japan.

People really need to get it together. There are hundreds of reactors running around the world, there have been 3 incidents since their implementation. You are more likely to die in a plane crash than be killed by a reactor.


----------



## Lampen

Press Release from TEPCO: At approximately 11:01am, an explosion followed by white smoke occurred
at the reactor building of Unit 3. It was believed to be a hydrogen
explosion.

According to the parameter, it is believed that the reactor containment
vessel remains intact. However, the status of the plant and the impact
of radioactive materials to the outside environment are presently under
investigation. (previously announced)

As of 1:30 pm, 4 TEPCO employees and 3 workers from other companies have
sustained injuries (all of them are conscious). 3 ambulances are in
operation to care for them and 2 have already dispatched the casualties
to the hospital.

As of 0:30 pm, the measured value of radiation dose near MP6 was 4μSv/h.
The increase of the radiation dose cannot be confirmed at this time.

As of 0:30 pm, the measured value of radiation dose at the monitoring
post in ***ushima Daini Power Station located approximately 10 km south
of ***ushima Daiichi Power Station remains at the same level.

In light of the incidents that have occurred at Units 1 and 3, we are
considering applying prevention measures to the wall of the reactor
building to ventilate the hydrogen gas contained in Unit 2.

TEPCO continues to take all measures to restore the safety and security
of the site and are monitoring the site's immediate surroundings.


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Well from the BBC, they have stated that the Japan government has officially requested Nuclear Experts from other countries including UK to assist.

Not looking good at all.


----------



## Tunapiano

more images from the quake/tsunami.


----------



## Scorpion87

Off topic: Lampen you probably haven't noticed but your avatar suits this thread perfectly.

On topic: I hope they get this mess fast under control.


----------



## aweir

So all 3 reactors HAVE melted, ARE melting, MIGHT melt... or what. I have never heard so much disinformation in all of my life! I can only imagine the rage that those Japanase feel right now because they are not being told the truth.


----------



## Red Rabbit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion87;12727761*
> Off topic: Lampen you probably haven't noticed but your avatar suits this thread perfectly.


Was just thinking the same thing.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE;12727751*
> Well from the BBC, they have stated that the Japan government has officially requested Nuclear Experts from other countries including UK to assist.
> 
> Not looking good at all.


When you hear that the local government are handing out Iodine tabs, and that they're pump sea water in place of coolant to try to prevent core melt...."not looking good" doesn't cover it....sea water pumping is the last thing you have on your long list of "things to try in pump failure".

It is the equivalent of having your H20 pump die and not having distilled...so you use sewage water out of your toilet. Presuming they save those cores from full melt (I'll bet money they're partially melted already-that is where the Cesium came from)--those core bundles are basically toast after exposure to sea water.


----------



## Tunapiano

maybe a tad off-topic but a close-up image of the Tokyo Tower top needle that was bent from the earthquake.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion87;12727761*
> Off topic: Lampen you probably haven't noticed but your avatar suits this thread perfectly.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Red Rabbit;12727778*
> Was just thinking the same thing.


Yeah I've had it up for a while but didn't think about it until we were well into the crisis.

News Flash - As fears grow of a meltdown at the ***ushima plant, officials in the Philippines are warning residents not to believe hoax messages reporting a meltdown has already happened with radiation dangers for neighbouring countries.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skripka;12727788*
> When you hear that the local government are handing out Iodine tabs, and that they're pump sea water in place of coolant to try to prevent core melt...."not looking good" doesn't cover it....sea water pumping is the last thing you have on your long list of "things to try in pump failure".
> 
> It is the equivalent of having your H20 pump die and not having distilled...so you use sewage water out of your toilet. Presuming they save those cores from full melt (I'll bet money they're partially melted already-that is where the Cesium came from)--those core bundles are basically toast after exposure to sea water.


From what I've been reading about the tablets the JG(Japanese Government)'s main concern was the high concentration of children within the evacuation/exclusion zone. Children are especially sensitive to the absorption of radioactive iodine so if and when they distributing them they will target children first. There are no indications that they don't have an adequate supply though so all the evacuees should be able to receive the recommended dose.


----------



## Marc-Olivier Beaudoin

the core might certainly melt they really perhaps should build some sort of sarcophagus on them already cause it could definitely cause damage .

IMA RIGHT?


----------



## Lampen

Yukiya Amano, head of the UN's nuclear watchdog, says ***ushima's reactor vessels "have held and radioactive release is limited" despite the effects of the earthquake and tsunami.


----------



## Tunapiano

I'm not sure if you posted this info already Lampen.
Quote:


> SOMA, Japan - Water levels dropped precipitously Monday inside one stricken Japanese nuclear reactor, officials said, and the fuel rods inside three reactors at the complex appeared to be melting.
> 
> The water drop twice left the uranium fuel rods completely exposed, increasing the risk of the spread of radiation and the potential for a meltdown, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said.
> 
> Water levels were restored after the first decrease, but the rods remained exposed late Monday night after the second episode at Unit 2 of the ***ushima Dai-ichi plant.
> 
> In addition, a senior government official said the nuclear fuel rods appeared to be melting inside three reactors at the complex, Units 1, 2 and 3.
> 
> "Although we cannot directly check it, it's highly likely happening," Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said.
> 
> Some experts would consider that a partial meltdown of the reactor. Others, though, reserve that term for times when nuclear fuel melts through a reactor's innermost chamber but not through the outer containment shell.
> 
> The cabinet secretary's comments followed a hydrogen explosion at the complex Monday, the second one in three days, injuring 11 workers.


source


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12727913*
> Yukiya Amano, head of the UN's nuclear watchdog, says ***ushima's reactor vessels "have held and radioactive release is limited" despite the effects of the earthquake and tsunami.


All in all it is remarkable.

The scenario with these reactors in Japan is basically the exact same scenario that the idiots responsible for Chernobyl we're testing for. Chernobyl blew up 30 seconds after the first sign that something was wrong...Japan has avoided a full core melt for 4+ days....they are of course completely different reactors, with completely different staff in terms of competency mind you.


----------



## corky dorkelson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skripka;12727940*
> All in all it is remarkable.
> 
> The scenario with these reactors in Japan is basically the exact same scenario that the idiots responsible for Chernobyl we're testing for. Chernobyl blew up 30 seconds after the first sign that something was wrong...Japan has avoided a full core melt for 4+ days....they are of course completely different reactors, with completely different staff in terms of competency mind you.


And a much, much less volatile fuel. The fuel used in Chernobyl was fast reacting, and the fuel in Japan is slow reacting.


----------



## Ikon




----------



## ENTERPRISE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skripka;12727788*
> When you hear that the local government are handing out Iodine tabs, and that they're pump sea water in place of coolant to try to prevent core melt...."not looking good" doesn't cover it....sea water pumping is the last thing you have on your long list of "things to try in pump failure".
> 
> It is the equivalent of having your H20 pump die and not having distilled...so you use sewage water out of your toilet. Presuming they save those cores from full melt (I'll bet money they're partially melted already-that is where the Cesium came from)--those core bundles are basically toast after exposure to sea water.


Dont worry I know just how desperate the situation is.


----------



## Tennobanzai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12727824*
> maybe a tad off-topic but a close-up image of the Tokyo Tower top needle that was bent from the earthquake.


My GF's friend was inside of the Tokyo Tower when it all started. Said it was extremely scary


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *corky dorkelson;12727963*
> And a much, much less volatile fuel. The fuel used in Chernobyl was fast reacting, and the fuel in Japan is slow reacting.


That was in part, because Chernobyl was designed to produce plutonium for use in weapons manufacture. It was a poor design even for that purpose.

Chernobyl blew the 100-ton steel reactor lid off the top like a cork due to a hydrogen bubble-destroying the containment vessel and the building...these reactors in Japan were able to bleed the hydrogen out of the vessel/coolant into the containment building...and then there was some random ignition source-damaging the building but not the vessel.

I'm stunned that the backup diesel generators to drive the pumps failed...that should never happen...and Japan has some of the higher building standards for earthquakes anywhere.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE;12728007*
> Dont worry I know just how desperate the situation is.


Ya never know.


----------



## Lampen

News Flash - The US Nuclear Regulatory Commission says that Japan has asked the US for help with cooling its damaged nuclear reactors, Reuters reports.


----------



## Eagle1337

A lot of repeat news.


----------



## cbr600

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12728020*
> News Flash - The US Nuclear Regulatory Commission says that Japan has asked the US for help with cooling its damaged nuclear reactors, Reuters reports.


To be truthful I think they should have asked us a long time ago like 2 days ago.


----------



## 8-Ball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eagle1337;12728062*
> A lot of repeat news.


Because there is so much uncertainty.


----------



## Lampen

@ Tuna yeah I've seen it but it's still speculation for the most part even though it's very likely at this point. Especially after all the cooling failures in reactor #2.

Updating Op...


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xXjay247Xx;12727520*
> I'm pretty sure its not possible to have Acid rain from this as the plants as I am aware are not releasing any form of sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides, actually do Nuclear plants release any at all?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also I'm guessing its possible for radiation to mix into rain.


By power plants, I was referring to those whom burn fossil fuels (coal, etc.). Nuclear plants do not burn fossil fuels


----------



## Ding Chavez

Doses of radiation at certain levels can cause zombie like symptoms. This could be the start of the zombie apocalypse and a new army of Japanese super zombies will infect all continents starting with the US.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ding Chavez;12728167*
> Doses of radiation at certain levels can cause zombie like symptoms. This could be the start of the zombie apocalypse and a new army of Japanese super zombies will infect all continents starting with the US.


It rather does. Which makes sense, in that computers, tv monitors, etc produce radiation.


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mega_option101;12728156*
> By power plants, I was referring to those whom burn fossil fuels (coal, etc.). Nuclear plants do not burn fossil fuels


Wait whats this...Nuclear reactors don't burn coal?!









Sorry I had to, you would hope people would know that..but I am sure there are few special cases.


----------



## Epitope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ding Chavez;12728167*
> Doses of radiation at certain levels can cause zombie like symptoms. This could be the start of the zombie apocalypse and a new army of Japanese super zombies will infect all continents starting with the US.


Good thing zombies can't swim. Although they might be able to walk along the ocean floor...


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE;12728202*
> Wait whats this...Nuclear reactors don't burn coal?!


They actually use unicorn blood and kitten tears.


----------



## Ding Chavez

Sorry I know that was extremely bad taste I'm just freaked out by all this destruction. Humour is a distraction. Floods and cyclone in Australia. Earthquake in NZ. Now earthquake, tsunami and nuke explosions in Japan. What's next...


----------



## Lampen

Evacuation Status

On 12 March, the Japanese Prime Minister ordered the evacuation of residents living within 10 kilometres of the ***ushima Daini nuclear power plant and within 20 kilometres of the ***ushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA) has reported that about 185,000 residents had been evacuated from the towns listed below as of 13 March, 17:00 (JST).

Populations of evacuated towns near the affected nuclear power plants:

Hirono-cho- 5,387
Naraha-cho- 7,851
Tomioka-cho - 15,786
Okuma-cho- 11,186
Futaba-cho - 6,936
Namie-cho - 20,695
Tamura-shi- 41,428
Minamisouma-shi - 70,975
Kawauchi-mura - 2,944
Kuzuo-mura - 1,482
Total184,670
Iodine Distribution

Japan has distributed 230,000 units of stable iodine to evacuation centres from the area around ***ushima Daiichi and ***ushima Daini nuclear power plants, according to officials. The iodine has not yet been administered to residents; the distribution is a precautionary measure in the event that this is determined to be necessary.


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ding Chavez;12728245*
> Sorry I know that was extremely bad taste I'm just freaked out by all this destruction. Humour is a distraction. Floods and cyclone in Australia. Earthquake in NZ. Now earthquake, tsunami and nuke explosions in Japan. What's next...


There have not been any ''Nuke explosions'' if there were, trust me you would know. They were just hydrogen explosions.


----------



## Tennobanzai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cbr600;12728066*
> To be truthful I think they should have asked us a long time ago like 2 days ago.


I'm pretty sure they have been getting help/support throughout the whole ordeal. Maybe now it's just "official"

This whole disaster is scary. I'm guessing Japan is way more prepared for Tsunamis and earthquakes then us in the west coast. I wonder how we would even find out of tsunami warnings for us in the USA.

Edit: It's amazing they have alarms go off 30 seconds before an earthquake goes off. Anyone know how this is possible?


----------



## Ding Chavez

Yes that's right. I didn't mean a thermo-nuclear explosion like in a hydrogen nuclear weapon. Explosions at nuclear power stations is not very good.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tennobanzai;12728332*
> I'm pretty sure they have been getting help/support throughout the whole ordeal. Maybe now it's just "official"
> 
> This whole disaster is scary. I'm guessing Japan is way more prepared for Tsunamis and earthquakes then us in the west coast. I wonder how we would even find out of tsunami warnings for us in the USA.
> 
> Edit: It's amazing they have alarms go off 30 seconds before an earthquake goes off. Anyone know how this is possible?


earthquakes travel. they can start in one place)10-15) miles off the coast and set off alarms within seconds. thats how people are sometime given warnings of earthquakes. i once called my wife at work(a mile away) cause we were having a earthquake. she didnt beleive me for about 2-3 secs untill it hit where she was.


----------



## Lampen

To clarify the Japanese Government started requesting assistance from the US military and government within hours of reactor problems occurring. Many institutions such as the NRC dispatched technicians and specialists before official requests went through. In crises such as these resources are moving long before they are announced to be.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12728371*
> To clarify the Japanese Government started requesting assistance from the US military and government within hours of reactor problems occurring. Many institutions such as the NRC dispatched technicians and specialists before official requests went through. In crises such as these resources are moving long before they are announced to be.


true, air force was dropping off coolant for the reactors within hours of the tsunami.


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tennobanzai;12728332*
> I'm pretty sure they have been getting help/support throughout the whole ordeal. Maybe now it's just "official"
> 
> This whole disaster is scary. I'm guessing Japan is way more prepared for Tsunamis and earthquakes then us in the west coast. I wonder how we would even find out of tsunami warnings for us in the USA.
> 
> Edit: It's amazing they have alarms go off 30 seconds before an earthquake goes off. Anyone know how this is possible?


30 seconds before an 8.9 earthquake is not a lot of time to get ready









I am sure most people didn't pay much attention to it... You should see how poorly people pay attention to things like fire alarms in the building I work in.


----------



## xXjay247Xx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mega_option101;12728156*
> By power plants, I was referring to those whom burn fossil fuels (coal, etc.). Nuclear plants do not burn fossil fuels


I was just going over on what I said in more detail, don't ask why I quoted you.


----------



## fg2chase

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tennobanzai;12728332*
> Edit: It's amazing they have alarms go off 30 seconds before an earthquake goes off. Anyone know how this is possible?


yeah, Seismographs monitor the activity constantly, they can just tell when it's building up..


----------



## Tennobanzai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mega_option101;12728442*
> 30 seconds before an 8.9 earthquake is not a lot of time to get ready
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure most people didn't pay much attention to it... You should see how poorly people pay attention to things like fire alarms in the building I work in.


I think 30 seconds can be the difference between life and death in some cases. It gives people the time to open there front door, move to a more secure area, etc, etc.


----------



## Lampen

News Flash - Op updated - New satellite imagery available:










From the Left: Reactor #1, Reactor #2, Reactor #3, Reactor #4

Reactor #3 seems to have been the most heavily damaged.


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mega_option101;12728442*
> 30 seconds before an 8.9 earthquake is not a lot of time to get ready
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure most people didn't pay much attention to it... You should see how poorly people pay attention to things like fire alarms in the building I work in.


Very true.

Oh and by the way people it was a 9.0 not 8.9. Now that scientists have collated ALL the data they got from the quake they have actually upgraded it to a 9.0


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE;12728472*
> Very true.
> 
> Oh and by the way people it was a 9.0 not 8.9. Now that scientists have collated ALL the data they got from the quake they have actually upgraded it to a 9.0


I heard something like that, but can't find a source. USGS still calls it an 8.9

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eqinthenews/2011/usc0001xgp/


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xXjay247Xx;12728452*
> I was just going over on what I said in more detail, don't ask why I quoted you.


It's all good


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skripka;12728496*
> I heard something like that, but can't find a source. USGS still calls it an 8.9
> 
> http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eqinthenews/2011/usc0001xgp/


It was on BBC news but I will try and find a source if I can. It is official, atleast to our scientists over here.


----------



## Lampen

I believe the Japanese equivalent of the USGS reevaluated the quake data and declared it to be 9.0. It's posted somewhere in this massive thread I think.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE;12728472*
> Very true.
> 
> Oh and by the way people it was a 9.0 not 8.9. Now that scientists have collated ALL the data they got from the quake they have actually upgraded it to a 9.0


japan upgraded it to 9.0 but usgs is still at 8.9


----------



## Ding Chavez

Think I heard a news report saying it was the 3rd biggest quake ever recorded. Incredible destruction, mainly from the tsunami.


----------



## xXjay247Xx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mega_option101;12728506*
> It's all good


Ha, yea I feel like a tard right now







guess I am









Anyway most news channels are still reporting this thing has a 8.9


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE;12728472*
> Very true.
> 
> Oh and by the way people it was a 9.0 not 8.9. Now that scientists have collated ALL the data they got from the quake they have actually upgraded it to a 9.0


8.9 or 9.0... matters little to me. They are numbers based off a scale... Guess what? All recording apparatus have degrees of error; thus, we'll never really know exactly what it was. 8.9 is good enough for me.

The real tragedy lies in the tsunami.


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mega_option101;12728575*
> 8.9 or 9.0... matters little to me. They are numbers based off a scale... Guess what? All recording apparatus have degrees of error; thus, we'll never really know exactly what it was. 8.9 is good enough for me.
> 
> The real tragedy lies in the tsunami.


You seem to have taken offence of me stating a fact







pity.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xXjay247Xx;12728535*
> Ha, yea I feel like a tard right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guess I am
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway most news channels are still reporting this thing has a 8.9


Most news channels will stick to that figure until the USGS officially upgrades it.


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tennobanzai;12728469*
> I think 30 seconds can be the difference between life and death in some cases. It gives people the time to open there front door, move to a more secure area, etc, etc.


I think that by the time you realize what the meaning of the alarm is and that you stop doing whatever it is you are doing... You're 30 seconds are up... I imagine that some people might now of even heard it (fast asleep etc.). I do not mean to say that they should not have set off the alarm, but there is little you can do when it comes to natural diasters like these.


----------



## Ocnewb

Japan always has lots of earthquake, so i think their citizens really developed a habit when they hear the alarm. They'd know exactly what to do.


----------



## Lampen

I'm off to the gym for a couple hours everyone. Update with relevant information as it's released and I'll use it to update the OP once I return.


----------



## Krymore

For any one wanting to know how the reactors failed, here is a video that makes it easy to understand.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2011/03/14/dnt.japan.reactor.explainer.nhk?hpt=C2


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE;12728608*
> You seem to have taken offence of me stating a fact
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pity.


I am not taking offence towards you stating a fact lol

I am merely pointing out that it is of little concern what the number is without knowing the degree of error associated to it. Please tell me the difference between an 8.9 and a 9.0 earthquake? It is all very blurry to me.

The fact that there is a discrepency between now and what was initially reported suggests that it is of little concern. I think we can all agree that 8.9 and 9.0 are pretty much the same lol (round up) haha

It would be a different story if they said, oh by the way, it was a 5.6 and not 8.9


----------



## TFL Replica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mega_option101;12728575*
> 8.9 or 9.0... matters little to me. They are numbers based off a scale... Guess what? All recording apparatus have degrees of error; thus, we'll never really know exactly what it was. 8.9 is good enough for me.
> 
> The real tragedy lies in the tsunami.


But the richter scale is not linear. Unless the chart in wiki is wrong 9 is twice as powerful as 8.8. That would mean that the difference between 9 and 8.9 while less is still pretty significant. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Tennobanzai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mega_option101;12728639*
> I think that by the time you realize what the meaning of the alarm is and that you stop doing whatever it is you are doing... You're 30 seconds are up... I imagine that some people might now of even heard it (fast asleep etc.). I do not mean to say that they should not have set off the alarm, but there is little you can do when it comes to natural diasters like these.


In my experience most of them know exactly what the alarm is, I saw it first hand. They basically opened the main front door and everyone got under a sturdy desk. It was just a false alarm or too small to feel. Just think if you heard the tsunami warning but your only way to get outside was your front door and it was busted/broken. Those 30 seconds could actually save you a lot of time opening your front door and get to higher ground.


----------



## Hawk777th

http://quinetiam.com/?p=125

Aircraft detects major radiation over Pacific! Not sure on source but worth a post!


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mega_option101;12728700*
> I am not taking offence towards you stating a fact lol
> 
> I am merely pointing out that it is of little concern what the number is without knowing the degree of error associated to it. Please tell me the difference between an 8.9 and a 9.0 earthquake? It is all very blurry to me.
> 
> The fact that there is a discrepency between now and what was initially reported suggests that it is of little concern. I think we can all agree that 8.9 and 9.0 are pretty much the same lol (round up) haha
> 
> It would be a different story if they said, oh by the way, it was a 5.6 and not 8.9


To be fair, the difference between 8.8 and 9.0 is double the strength. meaning a 9.0 is almost like 2 8.8 earthquakes. so yea, it does make a difference.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

i know everyone hates wiki, but it has the easiest to read chart at about the middle of the page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richter_magnitude_scale


----------



## xlBluex

Reuters reports that it is now official that Japan asked US for help:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/14/us-japan-nuclear-assistance-idUSTRE72D6JM20110314


----------



## sLowEnd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blue Destroyer;12728756*
> _*To be fair, the difference between 8.8 and 9.0 is double the strength.*_ meaning a 9.0 is almost like 2 8.8 earthquakes. so yea, it does make a difference.


It's 1.58x the strength


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sLowEnd;12728799*
> It's 1.58x the strength


8.8=238 megatons
9.0=474 megatons

476 would be 2x..so its more like 1.99X


----------



## Red Rabbit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hawk777th;12728746*
> http://quinetiam.com/?p=125
> 
> Aircraft detects major radiation over Pacific! Not sure on source but worth a post!


First comment on that article:
Quote:


> Fake report. No creditable sources other then from this website which has proven to pull hoax's.


So I'd take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## X-Nine

To make matters worse, Mt. Shinmoedake has erupted spewing ash and debris 2 miles into the air, and causing windows up to four miles away to shatter from the force of the explosion.

Currently there's no clear link to the earthquakes and the volcano, as this same volcano erupted in January, however, it's likely that they are all linked directly to one another.

I'm really hoping this thing doesn't spew any magma or lava. Japan has way more than enough to worry about right now.


----------



## l4n b0y

I work at Subaru of Indiana Automotive in Lafayette, IN, and was told today, that all overtime has been cut, both Subaru, and Toyota side, and the situation will be evaluated day by day. If it gets any worse, I think layoff are eminent. So this has already began to affect the US. We get a lot of our parts flown over from Japan, and last I checked all air travel was halted..


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ocnewb;12728673*
> Japan always has lots of earthquake, so i think their citizens really developed a habit when they hear the alarm. They'd know exactly what to do.


I really hope so... We had a 5.6 over the summer and it was total chaos







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TFL Replica;12728724*
> But the richter scale is not linear. Unless the chart in wiki is wrong 9 is twice as powerful as 8.8. That would mean that the difference between 9 and 8.9 while less is still pretty significant. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


You are correct. It is not linear







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blue Destroyer;12728756*
> To be fair, the difference between 8.8 and 9.0 is double the strength. meaning a 9.0 is almost like 2 8.8 earthquakes. so yea, it does make a difference.


8.7: 168 megatons
8.8: 238 megatons
8.9: x megatons ~335 megatons
9.0: 474 megatons

The thing is, we are not taking about an 8.8... We are talking about an 8.9.

Based off the difference between an 8.7 and an 8.8, we can calculate an 8.9 to be ~336 megatons. Which, if multiplied by the same factor would give us the exact same number as what is marked down for the 9.0.

So the difference between an 8.9 and a 9.0 is 138 megatons which is probably close to an 8.7... When you look at it this way I suppose that is a huge difference. How could they mess that up?


----------



## Krymore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l4n b0y;12728889*
> I work at Subaru of Indiana Automotive in Lafayette, IN, and was told today, that all overtime has been cut, both Subaru, and Toyota side, and the situation will be evaluated day by day. If it gets any worse, I think layoff are eminent. So this has already began to affect the US. We get a lot of our parts flown over from Japan, and last I checked all air travel was halted..


Actually both US Airlines and Delta have resumed all flights to Japan.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704893604576198702539637340.html


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TFL Replica;12728724*
> But the richter scale is not linear. Unless the chart in wiki is wrong 9 is twice as powerful as 8.8. That would mean that the difference between 9 and 8.9 while less is still pretty significant. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


Your right, last time I looked there is a difference, hence why I mentioned it


----------



## Tennobanzai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l4n b0y;12728889*
> I work at Subaru of Indiana Automotive in Lafayette, IN, and was told today, that all overtime has been cut, both Subaru, and Toyota side, and the situation will be evaluated day by day. If it gets any worse, I think layoff are eminent. So this has already began to affect the US. We get a lot of our parts flown over from Japan, and last I checked all air travel was halted..


Sorry to hear that. I hope the auto industry doesn't get hit hard.

Btw, not ALL air travel is halted.


----------



## sLowEnd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blue Destroyer;12728816*
> 8.8=238 megatons
> 9.0=474 megatons
> 
> 476 would be 2x..so its more like 1.99X


Ah, my bad. I was confusing magnitude with energy.


----------



## l4n b0y

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tennobanzai;12728951*
> Sorry to hear that. I hope the auto industry doesn't get hit hard.
> 
> Btw, not ALL air travel is halted.


Thats good to hear. We should be ok then, unless the situation worsens. Its all truly devastating though.


----------



## xlBluex

For more information on reactor 3, Massahi Goto, a Japanese engineer, just gave a press conference regarding the situation on reactor 3
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/13320454


----------



## snowful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ABeta;12702285*
> The island of Japan just needs to be ditched by it's people ASAP. Relocate to Russia or some other country with large unused land.


This is why Japan invaded China in WWII
Don't ever mention this again


----------



## 8-Ball

I just have this feeling that they are covering up the issue.

I mean, like as if they don't want to release that a meltdown is going to happen.


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hawk777th;12728746*
> http://quinetiam.com/?p=125
> 
> Aircraft detects major radiation over Pacific! Not sure on source but worth a post!


Yes sir, I do have my underwear packed in a bag at the moment...
May I ask about the credibility of this? Is it true? Alternate news sources? Worst effects?


----------



## aweir

I can't take this crappy news reporting anymore. They keep saying that fuel rods in 3 reactors _appear_ to be melting. Well, If they "appear" to be melting then they probably ARE melting. just say *Fuel Rods are Melting*.

Is that so hard?


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12729214*
> I can't take this crappy news reporting anymore. They keep saying that fuel rods in 3 reactors _appear_ to be melting. Well, If they "appear" to be melting then they probably ARE melting. just say *Fuel Rods are Melting*.
> 
> Is that so hard?


they don't and can't know for sure they are melting, they can't get in there to see, the temp in that room is high enough to melt you....


----------



## xd_1771

Anything about the radioactive cloud on its way that could make landfall within 24 hours?
It looks like a lot of you were wrong and there is in fact a possibility of potentially harmful radioactive fallout within the next 24 hours. I want to be sure first if this is true, if it will happen, and how dangerous it will be - before I hightail it to Calgary where I may have a place to stay.


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12729252*
> Anything about the radioactive cloud on its way that could make landfall within 24 hours?
> It looks like a lot of you were wrong and there is in fact a possibility of potentially harmful radioactive fallout within the next 24 hours. I want to be sure first if this is true, if it will happen, and how dangerous it will be - before I hightail it to Calgary where I may have a place to stay.


Lets go with yes, have fun being paranoid.


----------



## xd_1771

It's unfair to accuse me paranoid. At the moment details are unclear, and what people have been saying including CBC (just found this article) is that it won't be dangerous, however I have every right to take this concern seriously. You probably would if you lived here and knew if anything happened you would likely be the first hit.


----------



## solidsteel144

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12729252*
> Anything about the radioactive cloud on its way that could make landfall within 24 hours?
> It looks like a lot of you were wrong and there is in fact a possibility of potentially harmful radioactive fallout within the next 24 hours. I want to be sure first if this is true, if it will happen, and how dangerous it will be - before I hightail it to Calgary where I may have a place to stay.


Where you are at, you have nothing to worry about.


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12729342*
> It's unfair to accuse me paranoid. At the moment details are unclear, and what people have been saying including CBC (just found this article) is that it won't be dangerous, however I have every right to take this concern seriously. You probably would if you lived here and knew if anything happened you would likely be the first hit.


I will be in the first hit and there isn't anything that would hit that'd be dangerous think of an xray.... and secondly that news report is like a day or two old and hasn't been reported by any credible site.


----------



## ENTERPRISE

I see nothing wrong with being cautious and i would not call it outright paranoia, Nuclear accidents are nothing to be shrugged off.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12729342*
> It's unfair to accuse me paranoid. At the moment details are unclear, and what people have been saying including CBC (just found this article) is that it won't be dangerous, however I have every right to take this concern seriously. You probably would if you lived here and knew if anything happened you would likely be the first hit.


If you're in Vancouver, high tailing it to Calgary is not only paranoid, but probably only going to be marginally effective on the remote chance appreciable fallout does make it across the Pacific.

You are basically saying, "OK there is a fire 20 feet to my left, but I really don't want to be able to smell it, should I move another foot or two to my right?"


----------



## iewgnem

A few:
1 - the major cause of damage was the tsunami, the quake itself was off-shore, if you look at USGS charts the actual quake felt on land was only around 7, not low but the damage would certainly be a lot higher if it was on land.

2 - Each reactor functions as an independent unit in terms of safty, if redundant systems only failed at one reactor, you can say they were unlucky, but its statistically almost impossible for redundant systems fail in three disconnect systems unless there's bad engineering involved. The Japaness likes to talk about their quality standards but reality does not seem to agree with their claims.

3 - The levels of radiation detected 60 miles away from the reactor does not match the claims that only slightly radioactive steam were released into the atmosphere, the dust from the blewn outershell is the most likely canidate for the particulates and the levels detected indicate they were highly radioactive at time of explosion, again, this does not match with claims that radiation level at the site are within "legal limits".


----------



## 8-Ball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE;12729399*
> I see nothing wrong with being cautious and i would not call it outright paranoia, Nuclear accidents are nothing to be shrugged off.


Yup.

Anything is possible especially with this situation.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=13133418

Operators of Japanese nuke plant won't rule out meltdown

http://www.jpost.com/VideoArticles/Video/Article.aspx?id=212123


----------



## corky dorkelson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12729148*
> Yes sir, I do have my underwear packed in a bag at the moment...
> May I ask about the credibility of this? Is it true? Alternate news sources? Worst effects?


You got trolled. Sorry. The link that you clicked that sent you into a tizzy was blatantly false. If you read the thread back a bit it will show you that the source has absolutely no credit. No death clouds reported anywhere (yet?)


----------



## xd_1771

Okay, don't believe in it, don't take it seriously. That's your choice. What we don't know is how bad the radiation is (it's unfair to make statements like this because there hasn't been any confirmation of how bad it will be) and we do know that according to this article, the province itself is taking action and taking it seriously. More hospital beds, relocations, and stopping of dairy production is definitely a sign something's coming. The writer is asking for credible sources just as we are. Go find them.


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12729482*
> Okay, don't believe in it, don't take it seriously. That's your choice. What we don't know is how bad the radiation is (it's unfair to make statements like this because there hasn't been any confirmation of how bad it will be) and we do know that according to this article, the province itself is taking action and taking it seriously. More hospital beds, relocations, and stopping of dairy production is definitely a sign something's coming. The writer is asking for credible sources just as we are. Go find them.


Fake report again........


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE;12729399*
> I see nothing wrong with being cautious and i would not call it outright paranoia, Nuclear accidents are nothing to be shrugged off.


***ushima to Vancouver = ~9,000km

Vancouver to Calgary = ~600km

Even in the case of a full scale meltdown, the reduction in risk to ones health from moving 500-600km further east than already being on the otherside of the pacific is probably not large enough to make up for the risk of the drive.


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12729482*
> The writer is asking for credible sources just as we are. Go find them.


Go.
I could go further than Calgary if inevitable.


----------



## corky dorkelson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12729482*
> Okay, don't believe in it, don't take it seriously. That's your choice. What we don't know is how bad the radiation is (it's unfair to make statements like this because there hasn't been any confirmation of how bad it will be) and we do know that according to this article, the province itself is taking action and taking it seriously. More hospital beds, relocations, and stopping of dairy production is definitely a sign something's coming. The writer is asking for credible sources just as we are. Go find them.


Yeah, that link you quoted was the link that I told you had absolutely no credit. That is a troll/paranoia site.


----------



## Villosa

xd_1771, bro, you need to calm down and stop linking to those idiotic articles that will send the uninformed into a frenzy like you. It's starting to piss me off a little bit bro. I have family in Merced, San Jose, and I myself is in Sacramento California, we're not even going nuts here...why are you??


----------



## xXjay247Xx

Calm down man! I was talking to my family what they did when Chernobyl fallout was coming over Wales, that's all they had to do is stay in side.


----------



## [email protected]

Godzilla must be really pissed off now eh?



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I meant no offense towards them and i wish them safety also. Laughing is good for the soul but yes it's not funny when someone can get killed or injured during the quake.


----------



## Lt.JD

Differences between a full meltdown and partial meltdown.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/science/earth/14meltdown.html?ref=global-home


----------



## cbr600

To be truthful I'm really thinking about taking a trip to the east coast this is bugging me and not like are government is telling us anything. That kinda makes me believe we could be in trouble.


----------



## Aparition

Easy guys there will not be a cloud. Like the link above stated a full meltdown means the rods become liquid and pool into the collector below the reactor.

The plutonium / uranium used is far far below weapons grade. It will not ever explode. The reactors are well shielded.


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless;12729521*
> ***ushima to Vancouver = ~9,000km
> 
> Vancouver to Calgary = ~600km
> 
> Even in the case of a full scale meltdown, the reduction in risk to ones health from moving 500-600km further east than already being on the otherside of the pacific is probably not large enough to make up for the risk of the drive.


Indeed you would have to travel further to make it worthwhile !


----------



## Hyoketsu

Work resumes to pump seawater into troubled reactor unit: TEPCO - Kyodo News


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aparition;12729666*
> Easy guys there will not be a cloud. Like the link above stated a full meltdown means the rods become liquid and pool into the collector below the reactor.
> 
> The plutonium / uranium used is far far below weapons grade. It will not ever explode. The reactors are well shielded.


No one is talking about an atomic explosion/mushroom cloud.

In the case of a full scale meltdown, the fuel will likely vaporise itself and pressure will burst containment. Much of that vaporised fuel and waste will then be in the air, and could travel quite a distance.

Still, even if this turns into a Chernobyl scale disaster (and that is still extremely unlikely, at this point), there would be little cause to evacuate communities 9,000km away.

Even if small amounts of material does make it across the pacific, the recommendation won't consist of more than staying inside for a few day, wiping your feet, taking showers, and not eating dirt.


----------



## Citra

OP get's a rep. Full of important information with detailed explanations.


----------



## Ocnewb

I probably just stay inside my house if anything happens, but anyway i just had my bro in boston (he's a pharmacist and owns a pharmacy store) to ship me some potassium iodine tablets and some other things that he said might be useful. Well personally i'd love to have them in hands just in case i need to take one. I know there are few different particles and this tablet is only for the iodine which might cause thyroid cancer but something is still better than nothing. I'm not a paranoid here, but who knows what might happen next.....


----------



## strap624

I'm so sick of these ******ed news people who use the wrong terminology all the time and pretend like they actually know what they are talking about. Uggghh. They keep saying that if you ran your car with no coolant your engine would meltdown. lol. NO IT WOULD SEIZE.


----------



## Buzzin92

Im sorry if i may be wrong, but i have read that they may need to pump seawater for weeks if they cannot get normal cooling systems working again, wont there be a big build up of salt and other materials in the reactor from the evaporation? if so won't this slow down the cooling process?


----------



## neonlazer

After watching the video on how the safety mechanism's work. Did he really just say he thinks the coolant leaked out?...if it think straight(i could be wrong)..it should be solid steel and shouldn't be cracked by a earthquake. I smell a world wide investigation into nuclear plant design after this...and who would build a power plant on the beach of an ocean where one of the biggest subduction zones were?(meaning biggest chance to have a earthquake/tsunami)


----------



## solidsteel144

It should be solid steel.


----------



## Floy

Talking about ironic and fitting avatars (Lampen and Buzzin92), doesn't xd_1771's user title (Disaster Prevention Guru) strike you as a bit ironic?


----------



## Waffleboy

I have a question for any experts in this thread. It was my understanding that the fuel used in reactors not nearly enriched enough to react uncontrollably, ie any kind of 'nuclear weapon' explosion is impossible. But I was listening to the news today and a guest (who seemed to have some credentials on the subject) said a nuclear explosion (as with a nuclear weapon) is extremely unlikely at this point. I'm I wrong or did the guest not know what he was talking about?


----------



## xXjay247Xx

Water level in rector 2 almost empty, just saw on BBC news :O


----------



## Lt.JD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Waffleboy*


I have a question for any experts in this thread. It was my understanding that the fuel used in reactors not nearly enriched enough to react uncontrollably, ie any kind of 'nuclear weapon' explosion is impossible. But I was listening to the news today and a guest (who seemed to have some credentials on the subject) said a nuclear explosion (as with a nuclear weapon) is extremely unlikely at this point. I'm I wrong or did the guest not know what he was talking about?


You wouldn't get a nuclear explosion with this type of fuel used. You could get a explosion that would release radiation into the atmosphere.


----------



## snoball

Any live streams still up?


----------



## Waffleboy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lt.JD*


You wouldn't get a nuclear explosion with this type of fuel used. You could get a explosion that would release radiation into the atmosphere.


That's what I thought. I guess either I misheard or the guy didn't know what he was talking about







Thanks for the confirmation.


----------



## solidsteel144

Yeah it's very much unlike the Chernobyl incident. 
Where the fuel's contact with water would have made an explosion the size of the Ukraine. 
No such thing can happen in this case.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Waffleboy;12730150*
> I have a question for any experts in this thread. It was my understanding that the fuel used in reactors not nearly enriched enough to react uncontrollably, ie any kind of 'nuclear weapon' explosion is impossible. But I was listening to the news today and a guest (who seemed to have some credentials on the subject) said a nuclear explosion (as with a nuclear weapon) is extremely unlikely at this point. I'm I wrong or did the guest not know what he was talking about?


You're not going to get a mushroom cloud, if that is what you mean.

At this point, the offending reactors have mot likely suffered a partial meltdown IMHO...if they don't keep filling the reactors and boiling off water (which is what they are doing), a full meltdown out the bottom of the containment vessel is likely...which hopefully can be contained inside the concrete/steel bottom of the containment-it depends on how hot the rods are and how much energy they have yet to work off.

The only way off knowing for certain if the core is damaged (melted) is to look-which you cannot do while the core is so hot (radioactively as well as thermally). However the only way cesium gets into the coolant and vented off with the pressurized steam is if there is damage to rods...as such it is easy to deduce that early on there was core damage-which has likely gotten worse without coolant moving.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *neonlazer;12729875*
> After watching the video on how the safety mechanism's work. Did he really just say he thinks the coolant leaked out?...if it think straight(i could be wrong)..it should be solid steel and shouldn't be cracked by a earthquake. I smell a world wide investigation into nuclear plant design after this...and who would build a power plant on the beach of an ocean where one of the biggest subduction zones were?(meaning biggest chance to have a earthquake/tsunami)


The containment vessel itself is steel.

However, there are many ports, pipes, and valves that could have been broken/ruptured by the earthquake or increased pressure. This is assuming the leak wasn't an intentional/designed venting to relieve pressure.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Waffleboy;12730150*
> I have a question for any experts in this thread. It was my understanding that the fuel used in reactors not nearly enriched enough to react uncontrollably, ie any kind of 'nuclear weapon' explosion is impossible. But I was listening to the news today and a guest (who seemed to have some credentials on the subject) said a nuclear explosion (as with a nuclear weapon) is extremely unlikely at this point. I'm I wrong or did the guest not know what he was talking about?


It's flatly impossible. The guest likely didn't know what he was talking about.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lt.JD;12730238*
> You wouldn't get a nuclear explosion with this type of fuel used. You could get a explosion that would release radiation into the atmosphere.


Yep.


----------



## Lt.JD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Waffleboy;12730270*
> That's what I thought. I guess either I misheard or the guy didn't know what he was talking about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the confirmation.


Yea you would need to enrich the nuclear fuel a lot more to for a bomb.
Quote:


> Uranium-235 has an interesting property that makes it handy for the production of both nuclear power and nuclear bombs. U-235 decays naturally, just as U-238 does, by alpha radiation: It throws off an alpha particle, or two neutrons and two protons bound together. U-235 also undergoes spontaneous fission a small percentage of the time. However, U-235 is one of the few materials that can undergo induced fission. If a free neutron runs into a U-235 nucleus, the nucleus will absorb the neutron, become unstable and split immediately. See How Nuclear Radiation Works for complete details.
> 
> The animation to the right shows a uranium-235 nucleus with a neutron approaching from the top. The probability of a U-235 atom capturing a neutron as it passes by is high. In fact, under reactor conditions, one neutron ejected from each fission causes another fission to occur.
> 
> As soon as the nucleus captures the neutron, it splits into two lighter atoms and throws off two or three new neutrons (the number of ejected neutrons depends on how the U-235 atom splits). The process of capturing the neutron and splitting happens very quickly, on the order of picoseconds (1x10-12 seconds).
> 
> The decay of a single U-235 atom releases approximately 200 MeV (million electron volts). That may not seem like much, but there are a lot of uranium atoms in a pound (0.45 kg) of uranium. So many, in fact, that a pound of highly enriched uranium as us*ed to power a nuclear submarine is equal to about a million gallons of gasoline.
> 
> The splitting of an atom releases an incredible amount of heat and gamma radiation, or radiation made of high-energy photons. The two atoms that result from the fission later release beta radiation (super fast electrons) and gamma radiation of their own as well. The energy released by a single fission comes from the fact that the fission products and the neutrons, together, weigh less than the original U-235 atom. The difference in weight is converted directly to energy at a rate governed by the equation E = mc².
> 
> However, for all of this to work, a sample of uranium must be enriched so that it contains 2 to 3 percent more U-235.
> 
> Three-percent enrichment is sufficient for nuclear power plants, but weapons-grade uranium is composed of at least 90 percent U-235.


http://science.howstuffworks.com/nuclear-power1.htm


----------



## Skripka

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blameless*


The containment vessel itself is steel.

However, there are many ports, pipes, and valves that could have been broken/ruptured by the earthquake or increased pressure. This is assuming the leak wasn't an intentional/designed venting to relieve pressure.


Not only is it steel, it is VERY thick steel. The steel lid on Chernobyl Nr4 weighed more than a residential house.


----------



## snoball

Live streams? lol

sorry for repeat posts


----------



## Bull

The water situation is not going to help at this point, those Rods that have been exposed are just to hot...its like spraying water in a 5000 degree oven and then you wonder where the water went...at this point I would look for some lead housing somewhere because it's going to get worse as far as Radiation levels, people are going to start getting very sick and god bless those site workers, they have balls of steel to even try and repair those damaged reactors. One thing I learned in the Army...RAD is BAD.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mega_option101*


30 seconds before an 8.9 earthquake is not a lot of time to get ready










Moment Magnitude recalculated to 9.0: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquak...001xgp_wmt.php

Also, JMA's Earthquake Early Warning broadcasted automated alerts 1 minute before the initial quake hit; quite a big difference in warning time.







The tsunami only took about ten minutes to start affecting the areas, though, from what I heard.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bull;12730518*
> The water situation is not going to help at this point, those Rods that have been exposed are just to hot...its like spraying water in a 5000 degree oven and then you wonder where the water went...at this point I would look for some lead housing somewhere because it's going to get worse as far as Radiation levels, people are going to start getting very sick and god bless those site workers, they have balls of steel to even try and repair those damaged reactors. One thing I learned in the Army...RAD is BAD.


Meh. The containment has done it's job, and probably will continue to do so. The reason Chernobyl 4 blew apart as it did was in part because there was no containment building-at all. Odds are this mess will stay inside the containment. Even if material did get into the atmosphere, it would likely only fallout over the Pacific ocean away from people.

And no, it ain't likely at this point that "people are going to start getting very sick" either.


----------



## Bull

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skripka*


Meh. if material did get into the atmosphere, it would likely only fallout over the Pacific ocean away from people.

And no, it ain't likely at this point that "people are going to start getting very sick" either.


That's fine, I suppose you know which way the wind will blow for the next few weeks right







...You'll see pictures soon enough of people who have radiation sickness, mainly the workers at the plant who have been working on the crisis.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bull;12730688*
> That's fine, I suppose you know which way the wind will blow for the next few weeks right...You'll see pictures soon enough of people who have radiation sickness, mainly the workers at the plant who have been working on the crisis.


The accident, apart from some steam has been thus far contained inside the reactor. Why would workers isolated from the containment building get sick? Especially when even the steam releases probably weren't that hot radioactively?

You likely would get more radiation from a sunburn from vacationing on Key West that you would standing next to one of those containment buildings right now.

Unlike in Soviet Ukraine, these guys wear dose-meters all the time they are on site-and have accurate calibrated Geiger-counters and know how to use them. If they are exceeding an exposure limit they would be rotated out.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bull*


That's fine, I suppose you know which way the wind will blow for the next few weeks right







...You'll see pictures soon enough of people who have radiation sickness, mainly the workers at the plant who have been working on the crisis.


That's fine, I suppose you know the exact current state of the plant and the conditions the personnel are working in, right?









Seriously, speculation is one thing, but when you try to sound all-knowing, the fear-prone people tend to go deeper into panic.

Let's try to keep our doomsday prophecies in check, eh, people? Pessimism isn't helping at all.


----------



## esocid

This is such a sad situation. Seeing the satellite imagery was just stunning.


----------



## Waffleboy

Plus, I bet most/all of them are wearing rad suits.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Waffleboy;12730797*
> Plus, I bet most/all of them are wearing rad suits.


FYI-those don't block more energetic radiation. Alpha particles sure...but beta/gamma radiation needs more than just paper/fabric to stop. Beta needs something say the density of wood, and gamma radiation is only really stopped by lead.


----------



## Floy

What about Hazmat suits?


----------



## Skripka

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tizmo*


What about Hazmat suits?


They keep you from being exposed to things through inhalation or absorbtion through skin/mouth-but more energetic radiation would go through them probably.

If you eat a block of plutonium (there was a FAMOUS bet a famous physicist made with Ralph Nader that he would do this if Nader ate the same amount of pure caffeine, that the later never took up), almost all of the isotope would go in one end and out the other-and you wouldn't be much worse for the wear...pure caffeine on the other hand is highly poisonous.

With radioisotopes in air, once you breathe them in-they settle in certain areas. Iodine settles in the thyroid, iodine tablets are given out to saturate the thyroid with iodine to prevent radioisotopes of iodine from getting in. Others settle in bone marrow etc. Not pleasant...and lead to all manner of health problems.

The workers wearing radiation suits/masks @ Chernobyl, sent to clear the roof of the exploded reactor building-got their entire LIFETIME dosage of radiation in about two minutes. As most of it was more energetic...not surprisingly they died quickly thereafter. AGAIN though, those guys had no badges, no safety conditions, and were volunteer firefighters who knew nothing about what they were doing-apart form the fact it was probably a death sentence.


----------



## paulerxx

My lord...So greatful to live where I do. I'm praying these reactors don't melt down, that will be horrible and Japan obviously has enough on her plate.


----------



## Zen00

From what my nuclear safety officer told me, if your going to get a lethal dose of radiation, make it 50 Rads or more, that will kill you in a half-hour. Under that you'll experience a lingering death taking up to a month as your body melts around you (to 20 Rads) and so on.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:



Originally Posted by *paulerxx*


My lord...So greatful to live where I do. I'm praying these reactors don't melt down, that will be horrible and Japan obviously has enough on her plate.










They likely already have suffered at least partial core melts....but it sounds as though containment is sound on 2 of the 3 reactors as of now.


----------



## Bull

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu*


That's fine, I suppose you know the exact current state of the plant and the conditions the personnel are working in, right?









Seriously, speculation is one thing, but when you try to sound all-knowing, the fear-prone people tend to go deeper into panic.

Let's try to keep our doomsday prophecies in check, eh, people? Pessimism isn't helping at all.


I know as much as you do right?...It was JMO so take it with a grain of salt please...I concur that the RAD levels are low to moderate, but if your the guy mopping up the mess then your more at risk... and I believe neither you, I, or the other (know it all) can predict the weather so a statement that the wind will blow contaminates out to the sea is awesome in itself. The statement about the lead house was just for sick humor even though lead offers one of the best transition factors when dealing with radiation, ever get an xray?...yeah that's lead inside that fabric they put on your chest.

Sincerely,

Lighten Up


----------



## Villosa

Your name is ironic Bull. Your example of sick humor is a bit alarming as there is nothing humorous about what's happening in Japan right now. Lighten up? Please have some respect sir.


----------



## Ando

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skripka;12730727*
> The accident, apart from some steam has been thus far contained inside the reactor. Why would workers isolated from the containment building get sick? Especially when even the steam releases probably weren't that hot radioactively?
> 
> You likely would get more radiation from a sunburn from vacationing on Key West that you would standing next to one of those containment buildings right now.
> .


So how do you know that Japan isnt covering up how bad this actually is?
Do you have any proof that this is all contained in the containment building other then what we have been told?









I cant see them wanting to broadcast how bad this situation is!









you also say "probably" and "likely" in most of your posts - when its a situation that could be VERY bad.....probably & likely doesnt cut it.









(im in no way saying you are wrong! I have no idea! just saying we are all going off what the media and the company who owns the reactors are saying......and I dont trust them.)


----------



## Bull

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Villosa*


Your name is ironic Bull. Your example of sick humor is a bit alarming as there is nothing humorous about what's happening in Japan right now. Lighten up? Please have some respect sir.


No kidding, I have already sent a donation and I'm not laughing either...


----------



## Imglidinhere

How is it that we haven't flown every single one of our best personnel over to Japan to help with this crisis? Who gives a flipping s*** about the terrorist nations and their doings? This is going to impact the world ten times worse if it isn't contained quickly.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Villosa*


Your name is ironic Bull. Your example of sick humor is a bit alarming as there is nothing humorous about what's happening in Japan right now. Lighten up? Please have some respect sir.


wooo, slow down there. some people(acually alot of us) use humor to help with stress. its the natural way of calming our selfs down. relax.


----------



## xXjay247Xx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Imglidinhere*


How is it that we haven't flown every single one of our best personnel over to Japan to help with this crisis? Who gives a flipping s*** about the terrorist nations and their doings? This is going to impact the world ten times worse if it isn't contained quickly.


This! just think about it, if it goes into a meltdown, how are they going to contain the other reactors?


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ando;12731131*
> So how do you know that Japan isnt covering up how bad this actually is?
> Do you have any proof that this is all contained in the containment building other then what we have been told?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cant see them wanting to broadcast how bad this situation is!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you also say probably in most of your posts - when its a situation that could be VERY bad.....probably doesnt cut it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (im in no way saying you are wrong! I have no idea! just saying we are all going off what the media and the company who owns the reactors are saying......and I dont trust them.)


They could be covering it up. But their actions thus far look to be in good faith.

Chernobyl was minimized by authorities. The town surrounding the reactor was not even evacuated for 24+ hours after the accident--only after greatly increased radiation levels were noticed downwind 1000miles....they also did not hand out iodine...they also didn't invite international aid on the topic.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xXjay247Xx*


This! just think about it, if it goes into a meltdown, how are they going to contain the other reactors?


Each reactor has its own containment vessel and building. One reactor going all the way South, by design, should not endanger the others in terms of containment.


----------



## Imglidinhere

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skripka*


They keep you from being exposed to things through inhalation or absorbtion through skin/mouth-but more energetic radiation would go through them probably.

*If you eat a block of plutonium (there was a FAMOUS bet a famous physicist made with Ralph Nader that he would do this if Nader ate the same amount of pure caffeine, that the later never took up), almost all of the isotope would go in one end and out the other-and you wouldn't be much worse for the wear...pure caffeine on the other hand is highly poisonous.*

With radioisotopes in air, once you breathe them in-they settle in certain areas. Iodine settles in the thyroid, iodine tablets are given out to saturate the thyroid with iodine to prevent radioisotopes of iodine from getting in. Others settle in bone marrow etc. Not pleasant...and lead to all manner of health problems.

The workers wearing radiation suits/masks @ Chernobyl, sent to clear the roof of the exploded reactor building-got their entire LIFETIME dosage of radiation in about two minutes. As most of it was more energetic...not surprisingly they died quickly thereafter. AGAIN though, those guys had no badges, no safety conditions, and were volunteer firefighters who knew nothing about what they were doing-apart form the fact it was probably a death sentence.


For the bolded portion, I'd have to completely disagree.

If you had a block of raw plutonium in your hands, you'd be dead before the day ended.


----------



## Ando

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skripka*


They could be covering it up. But their actions thus far look to be in good faith.

Chernobyl was minimized by authorities. The town surrounding the reactor was not even evacuated for 24+ hours after the accident--only after greatly increased radiation levels were noticed downwind 1000miles....they also did not hand out iodine...they also didn't invite international aid on the topic.


They also learnt how to make it look like they were doing more to "fix" the situation.









I dont know - it seems like one second they are saying "its all contained and we are sure there will be no melt down and every thing will be fine" - next thing another reactor blows up.









I just dont know what to think at this point.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ando*


They also learnt how to make it look like they were doing more to "fix" the situation.









I dont know - it seems like one second they are saying "its all contained and we are sure there will be no melt down and every thing will be fine". then next thing another reactor blows up.









I just dont know what to think at this point.










NO reactors have "blown up". If they had, the Jet Stream would have carried lots of fallout off and away by now, and folks downwind would be reporting it.

What those explosions were, were clouds of hydrogen gas that had been bled from the reactor (same idea as bleeding air out of a H2O loop on your computer)--vented into the containment building. You look at the photos/videos, see how pretty much exactly the top half of the building is gone but the bottom is intact? Those facilities were engineered to do _exactly_ that in the even of an explosion-channeling energy up not outwards....thus avoiding damaging surrounding vital equipment/other reactor buildings.


----------



## xXjay247Xx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skripka*


Each reactor has its own containment vessel and building. One reactor going all the way South, by design, should not endanger the others in terms of containment.


Actually what I ment to say was maintain the other plants







its impossible right if one goes into meltdown, they are going to have to evacuate.


----------



## Dyson Poindexter

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Imglidinhere*


For the bolded portion, I'd have to completely disagree.

If you had a block of raw plutonium in your hands, you'd be dead before the day ended.


All depends on the size of the block. I've consumed uranium dust before (don't ask) and as long as it's not alloyed such that your body stores it away, it passes without incident.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dyson Poindexter*


All depends on the size of the block. I've consumed uranium dust before (don't ask) and as long as it's not alloyed such that your body stores it away, it passes without incident.


you sir, are a winner


----------



## Skripka

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Imglidinhere*


For the bolded portion, I'd have to completely disagree.

If you had a block of raw plutonium in your hands, you'd be dead before the day ended.


The lesson of said bet was Nader's repeated statements that plutonium was the "most dangerous/poisonous" substance on Earth. A gent made a bet that gram for gram, and pound for pound he'd eat as much plutonium as he Nader would pure caffeine....since less than a gram of pure caffeine will kill you outright, Nader wisely chose never to put his money where his mouth was.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dyson Poindexter*


All depends on the size of the block. I've consumed uranium dust before (don't ask) and as long as it's not alloyed such that your body stores it away, it passes without incident.


Yup.


----------



## Waffleboy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dyson Poindexter*


All depends on the size of the block. I've consumed uranium dust before (don't ask) and as long as it's not alloyed such that your body stores it away, it passes without incident.


I know you said not to, but I have to ask


----------



## PriceEddie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xXjay247Xx*


Actually what I ment to say was maintain the other plants







its impossible right if one goes into meltdown, they are going to have to evacuate.


If one of the reactors melts down, then it and the pressure vessel would fall through to the 'core catcher'. This allows the materials to spread out and cool, all well within the safe containment zones of the NPP.

Eddie.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Zen00*


From what my nuclear safety officer told me, if your going to get a lethal dose of radiation, make it 50 Rads or more, that will kill you in a half-hour. Under that you'll experience a lingering death taking up to a month as your body melts around you (to 20 Rads) and so on.


Sigh... Math time...

1 rads = 0.01 sieverts
20 rads = 0.20 sieverts
50 rads = 0.50 sieverts
100 rads = 1.00 sieverts

Exposure and Mortality Ratings

1-2 Sv(100 - 200 rads) - Mortality without medical care 0-5%, mortality with medical care 0-5%

2-6 Sv(200-600 rads) - Mortality without medical care 5-100%, mortality with medical care 0-50%

6-8 Sv(600-800 rads) - Mortality without medical care 95-100%, mortality with medical care 95-100%%

8-30 Sv(800-3000 rads) - Mortality without medical care 100%, mortality with medical care 100%

>30 Sv(>3000 rads) - Mortality without medical care 100%, mortality with medical care 100%

You are certainly not going to die from a sudden exposure to 50 rads at once. If you're talking about almost immediate death you need an inordinately high amount of radiation exposure. The kind you get wandering through a reactor or taking a swim in the cooling pool.

I've been exposed to more than 50 rads at a time probably about 4-5 times in my life and I've in total been exposed to about 6400 rads in total that I know of. I localized radiation therapy for cancer several years ago but I received the majority of the radiation to my torso so major organ systems were affected rather badly.


----------



## Lampen

Also OP updates in progress. Searching for any new press releases and information. Should be updated in about 15 minutes.


----------



## xXjay247Xx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


Also OP updates in progress. Searching for any new press releases and information. Should be updated in about 15 minutes.


Good I was watching bbc news a while back and it came up that almost all the water in the rector was almost gone, so I hope you can clarify that for me.


----------



## Zen00

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


Sigh... Math time...

1 rads = 0.01 sieverts
20 rads = 0.20 sieverts
50 rads = 0.50 sieverts
100 rads = 1.00 sieverts

Exposure and Mortality Ratings

1-2 Sv(100 - 200 rads) - Mortality without medical care 0-5%, mortality with medical care 0-5%

2-6 Sv(200-600 rads) - Mortality without medical care 5-100%, mortality with medical care 0-50%

6-8 Sv(600-800 rads) - Mortality without medical care 95-100%, mortality with medical care 95-100%%

8-30 Sv(800-3000 rads) - Mortality without medical care 100%, mortality with medical care 100%

>30 Sv(>3000 rads) - Mortality without medical care 100%, mortality with medical care 100%

You are certainly not going to die from a sudden exposure to 50 rads at once. If you're talking about almost immediate death you need an inordinately high amount of radiation exposure. The kind you get wandering through a reactor or taking a swim in the cooling pool.

I've been exposed to more than 50 rads at a time probably about 4-5 times in my life and I've in total been exposed to about 6400 rads in total that I know of. I localized radiation therapy for cancer several years ago but I received the majority of the radiation to my torso so major organ systems were affected rather badly.


Then it was Greys. Can't remember which unit of measure it was. So sue me, instead of giving me a lecture about "Math", just correct which units I'm using.


----------



## Lampen

OP updated with current relevant news and status of reactors.

Cliff notes:

Reactor #2 and #3 unstable at this point. Emergency cooling underway at both.

Reactor #2 experienced massive cooling failures, rods fully exposed to air multiple times. 
Reactor #2 experienced venting problems which were later cleared. 
Reactor #2's water/coolant level not rising. Might be due to excess heat or a leak, both have been acknowledged as possibilities. The latter is particularly concerning.

Reactor #3 has had a defect identified in it's containment vessel.


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Villosa*


xd_1771, bro, you need to calm down and stop linking to those idiotic articles that will send the uninformed into a frenzy like you. It's starting to piss me off a little bit bro. I have family in Merced, San Jose, and I myself is in Sacramento California, we're not even going nuts here...why are you??


I didn't originally post the article. Due to Jetstream patterns Vancouver, Canada would be hit much earlier and with bigger dose than San Jose if ever.
I wasn't aware this was a _known_ troll/paranoia site though. Nevertheless I'll investigate further in what the province is doing. If dairy really has stopped farming, emergency centres relocated, and hospital beds really cleared, I'll be sure to notify everyone.
Say what you will, but I won't be told to calm down. Plenty of other reports suggest that radioactive material may be already moving over the Pacific, and I'd like to get more info about this if possible as well as determine what exactly to do and when to do it.

Now, concerning the actual reactors...
Reactor 1's containment building is gone, but reports have stated that they may already have been able to put it into cold shutdown.
Reactor 2 only experiencing the beginning of failure
Reactor 3's more dangerous and is still experiencing cooling problems, but the containment is still there...but how much is the balance of good and bad here

Or has more happened since then?


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


I didn't originally post the article. Due to Jetstream patterns Vancouver, Canada would be hit much earlier and with bigger dose than San Jose if ever.

I wasn't aware this was a _known_ troll/paranoia site though. Nevertheless I'll investigate further in what the province is doing. If dairy really has stopped farming, emergency centres relocated, and hospital beds really cleared, I'll be sure to notify everyone.

Say what you will, but I won't be told to calm down. Plenty of other reports suggest that radioactive material may be already moving over the Pacific, and I'd like to get more info about this if possible as well as determine what exactly to do and when to do it.


yes, it is likely that radioactive material MIGHT reach the coast.

Will it effect you at all? Very unlikely


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Zen00*


Then it was Greys. Can't remember which unit of measure it was. So sue me, instead of giving me a lecture about "Math", just correct which units I'm using.


This is not a thread to be free and loose with information. There are plenty of people around here that don't know much about the subject and there are even some ready to hide out in the Arctic Circle if things appear to be going south. Also we've all got the Internet so it's really easy to confirm information based on personal memories. Not trying to bash I just don't need to answering any more panicked questions.

And yes you were probably talking about Grays or Sieverts.

1 Gray = 100 Rads = 1 Sievert.


----------



## xXjay247Xx

Nice cheers for the update.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


Now, concerning the actual reactors...
Reactor 1's containment building is gone, but reports have stated that they may already have been able to put it into cold shutdown.
Reactor 2 only experiencing the beginning of failure
Reactor 3's more dangerous and is still experiencing cooling problems, but the containment is still there...but how much is the balance of good and bad here

Or has more happened since then?


Check the OP. All new information on the reactors from their operator, TEPCO, and all the sources I trust is there.


----------



## xd_1771

So anyways a new article about the Supermoon event soon has come up from Yahoo; the person who discusses is from NASA
Fear mongering, or could this possibly have an effect on this situation? (I don't think so)


----------



## Lampen

The BBC's Roland Buerk says: "In the towns near the ***ushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, people have been scanned for contamination. Officials say a few have shown slightly raised levels of radiation, but nowhere near dangerous levels. Japan relies on nuclear power stations for nearly a third of its electricity. But trust in the technology, and power company officials, is being shaken. 'I don't know whether we can believe them. Not only their comments, but also the Japanese government and those of the prefectures,' one man told me. After being checked, people are being offered places at evacuation centres around ***ushima. But for some that is not far enough. They are leaving for other parts of Japan."


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


So anyways a new article about the Supermoon event soon has come up from Yahoo; the person who discusses is from NASA
Fear mongering, or could this possibly have an effect on this situation? (I don't think so)


People have tried to claim that when the moon is at it's perigee (closest) and apogee (furthest) natural disasters become more frequent but nobody has even been able to produce empirical evidence to support their claims.

The moon will however exert a stronger tidal force, but nothing that people would be able to notice. Also there might be a slight increase in the strength and frequency of moonquakes, but that doesn't affect us at all.

My advice since we only get to see one of these every 20 years or so would be to get some buddies that like astronomy, a couple cases of beer, a warm fire and some lawn chairs. Stare up at the sky and enjoy the view.


----------



## xd_1771

Tidal force... not enough to affect any of the water being used to cool the fuel rods/reactors, am I right? (I'm pretty sure it won't though)


----------



## Lampen

Press Release on ***ushima Daini(Plant #2) - Reactor #1, #2, #3 have all reach full cold shutdown and are stable. Reactor #4's cooling system fully repaired and should reach full cold shutdown in the next 24 hours.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


Tidal force... not enough to affect any of the water being used to cool the fuel rods/reactors, am I right? (I'm pretty sure it won't though)


No the moon will not affect anything. Unless it falls from the sky directly onto the reactors.


----------



## xd_1771

What
It's gone from "failing" to "full shutdown" without many details in between!?
What is this--
Great news though


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Good, now we just need to worry about unit 2 at Daiichi; looks like everything's calming down now.


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Good, now we just need to worry about unit 2 at Daiichi; looks like everything's calming down now.


about time, now Japan can spend the next 20 years rebuilding and recovering.


----------



## Lampen

Before people get confused:

***ushima Daini(Plant #2) - Reactor #1, #2, #3 have all reach full cold shutdown and are stable. Reactor #4's cooling system fully repaired and should reach full cold shutdown in the next 24 hours.

***ushima Daiichi(Plant #1) - Reactor #1 has had no news on it for a while. Emergency cooling operations still on going. Reactor #2 experiencing massive problems and is unstable with a possible containment breach. Reactor #3 also experiencing problems with cooling and is unstable at this time.

Daiichi = where all the explosions have been. We're not out of the woods yet. Daiichi is the last facility reporting problems.

EDIT - INCOMING NEWS 2308 GMT- An explosion is heard at ***ushima's second reactor, the Kyodo news agency reports.


----------



## Lampen

Breaking News - Kyodo now says that the suppression pool may have been damaged at the second reactor.


----------



## xd_1771

What
So it's done and then suddenly there's another explosion!?

WHAT IS THIS--

EDIT: Ohhh, terrible luck... they just reach shut down and then it starts all over again









Nevermind, just figured out the confusion. Two plants, Daiichi & Daini. Daiichi is still having trouble which just escalated now that all 3 reactors have blown their tops. Daini is safe.


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:



SOMA, Japan - An explosion was heard at a third nuclear reactor in northeastern Japan on Tuesday, Japan's nuclear safety agency reported.

An agency spokesman speaking Tuesday on national television said the explosion was heard at 6:10 a.m. local time.

The apparent explosion comes as Japanese engineers pumped seawater into Unit 2 of the Fkushima Daiichi plant after coolant water levels there dropped, exposing uranium fuel rods.


source

It seems the Uranium may have had some part in it?


----------



## Lampen

Breaking News - Tokyo Electric Company confirms some staff are being evacuated from it's ***ushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant site.


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


Breaking News - Kyodo now says that the suppression pool may have been damaged at the second reactor.


Yikes, now this is some of the first really bad news so far. Hopefully they get #2 under control.


----------



## xd_1771

More evacuations + reactor 2's supression pool may be damaged.... = more radiation leaks now?
Oh boy....

EDIT: Realized it's supression pool, not reactor. What about the reactor itself?


----------



## SmokinWaffle

Oh dear.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


Breaking News - Tokyo Electric Company confirms some staff are being evacuated from it's ***ushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant site.


ok now thats some of the worst news so far.


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


More evacuations + reactor 2 may be damaged.... = more radiation leaks now?
Oh boy....


Even if it is damaged unless it has a full meltdown which is still unlikely there won't be anymore than local issues.


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock*


ok now thats some of the worst news so far.


^This.. not good.. Hopefully it's more like the explosions at reactor 1 and 3.. but it doesn't appear to be.....


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:



Originally Posted by *scyy*


Even if it is damaged unless it has a full meltdown which is still unlikely there won't be anymore than local issues.


And if we get the worst luck ever and all 3 have a full meltdown
Then what?

Footage of the explosion? What we do know is that reactor 3's explosion was bigger than reactor 1's... perhaps explosion size could help us tell here


----------



## Lampen

*Breaking News*

Part of the container of a troubled nuclear reactor appears to be damaged, the Japanese government said early Tuesday, indicating possible serious radiation leaks.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told reporters that "damage appears on the suppression pool" -- the bottom part of the container, which contains water used to cool down the reactor and control air pressure inside.

"But we have not recorded any sudden jump in radiation indicators," Edano said without elaborating.

Advertisement: Story continues below
If confirmed, it will be the first direct damage to the reactor since a massive earthquake and tsunami battered Japan's northeast coast on Friday, knocking out nuclear plants in ***ushima, north of Tokyo.


----------



## xd_1771

No sudden jump in radiation indicators?
Could their indicators be untrustable/faulty at all? Just asking, there still seems to be much unclearness over whether radiation is out or not.


----------



## coffeejunky

Watching NHK live on Ustream, they say that radiation levels did jump. Also explosion happened a few hours ago and still no pics/vids...interesting.


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:



Originally Posted by *coffeejunky*


Watching NHK live on Ustream, they say that radiation levels did jump. Also explosion happened a few hours ago and still no pics/vids...interesting.


i just heard that also

they also stated that pressure is dropping in the suppression pool


----------



## Lampen

Yeah was wondering that myself. NHK's cameras are glued to that External Containment Building. If there was an explosion perhaps it wasn't another hydrogen explosion







?

News Flash - The explosion is feared to have damaged the reactor's pressure-suppression system, Kyodo says. It adds that "radiation tops legal limit" after the explosion.


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:



More details on the reported blast at ***ushima's reactor 2. The explosion is feared to have damaged the reactor's pressure-suppression system, Kyodo says. It adds that "radiation tops legal limit" after the explosion


:/

edit: Don nice way to not add to the thread


----------



## Don Queso

For those of us who operate or have operated nuclear reactors, this is where we have been discussing the specifics of this situation in detail.







Nuke Worker Forum







. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions and you don't want to subscribe to the website,
Don Queso


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

no radiation so there evacuating workers for fun

Edit- nvm, radiation did spike


----------



## xd_1771

It's a pre-emptive evacuation. There's a risk, so why not?
They did that with Hawaii and other places when they predicted the tsunamis would reach there... then they turned out to be fairly small


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock*


no radiation so there evacuating workers for fun

Edit- nvm, radiation did spike


there doesn't need to be immediate danger to evacuate people.


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tunapiano*


i just heard that also

they also stated that pressure is dropping in the suppression pool


Drop in pressure... Never a good thing


----------



## Lampen

Tokyo Electric officials are now holding a news briefing. They say the blast at reactor 2 happened "near the pressure vessel". They also confirm that some staff at the nuclear power plant are being evacuated.


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


Tokyo Electric officials are now holding a news briefing. They say the blast at reactor 2 happened "near the pressure vessel". They also confirm that some staff at the nuclear power plant are being evacuated.


Just to add on, they state that around 50 staff members are left behind, no exact figure


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


Tokyo Electric officials are now holding a news briefing. They say the blast at reactor 2 happened "near the pressure vessel". They also confirm that some staff at the nuclear power plant are being evacuated.


In my opinion there is some radioactive material leaking out.


----------



## Lampen

News Flash - Tokyo Electric says that 50 employees are still staying at the ***ushima plant


----------



## Don Queso

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Eagle1337*


In my opinion there is some radioactive material leaking out.


It doesn't need to be your opinion. When there's Cesium-137 being detected outside the reactor vessel, it's pretty damn indicative of a fuel clad failure. Cs-137 is not naturally found and is only a byproduct of nuclear fission. When the water level in the Rx dropped below the fuel rods, the temperature climbed to a point where a partial fuel element failure is pretty imminent.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

now there staying.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

cnn said the containment vessel mite be breached


----------



## Lampen

No word from the NSIA, NRC, IAEA, JP, or anyone who might know what's going on. Massive speculation occurring. Twitter feeds are going insane on my end. Hundreds of posts a minute. Hard to keep track of what's going on.


----------



## Lampen

Radioactive materials are feared to be leaking at ***ushima, Kyodo reports quoting a safety agency.

I just want to say that we don't know anything for sure yet so I don't want people to get too nervous about this yet.


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock*


cnn said the containment vessel mite be breached


Are they flooding it?


----------



## Tunapiano

on NHK they are saying that TEPCO announced that after the explosion the radiation level got to 8,217 micro sieverts(spelled right)? outside the reactor, 3 times a normal amount a person has in one year.


----------



## Sharaktengu

I can't sense the time passing by anymore, it feels too long and too short at the same time.


----------



## paulerxx




----------



## Ando

Told ya they were covering it up! they said #1 #2 #3 were in cold shut down and now this! I dont trust what they are telling us!


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ando*


Told ya they were covering it up! they said #1 #2 #3 were in cold shut down and now this! I dont trust what they are telling us!


Actually they said 1 and 3 were.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ando*


Told ya they were covering it up! they said #1 #2 #3 were in cold shut down and now this! I dont trust what they are telling us!


***ushima Daiini has 1,2,3 in cold shutdown. ***ushima Daiichi's reactors 1,2, and 3 are the ones that are the problem and the ones we are discussing. You could at least take 10 minutes to read the OP where I stated this many times.


----------



## milkman6453

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sharaktengu*


I can't sense the time passing by anymore, it feels too long and too short at the same time.


drugs?


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Not good !


----------



## xd_1771

Still no news?


----------



## strap624

Hope this doesn't turn out so bad.


----------



## Lampen

Press Conference on Reactors. Not hearing too much new information.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv


----------



## Sharaktengu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *milkman6453*


drugs?


Yeah , it's called suspense from having some1dear to you near that place that can't get out of there cause the trains stopped yesterday


----------



## Floy

Not good...

Quote:



URGENT: Radiation shoots up at ***ushima nuke plant after blast heard

TOKYO, March 15, Kyodo

The radiation level at the troubled nuclear plant in ***ushima Prefecture shot up to 8,217 micro sievert per hour temporarily Tuesday morning after an explosion was heard at its No. 2 reactor, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said.

The level as of 8:31 p.m. was more than eight times the 1,000 micro sievert level to which people are usually exposed in one year.

==Kyodo


----------



## CStylen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


Press Conference on Reactors. Not hearing too much new information.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv


its recorded


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


Press Conference on Reactors. Not hearing too much new information.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv


yea just showing recorded stuff now.


----------



## Lampen

It's bizarre how quiet they've become, especially with an explosion near the reactor's pressure vessel. There's no info anywhere.


----------



## molino

still it explains in detail what happened exactly in the earlier press conference 
so listen carefully and do not jump on conclusion please


----------



## oventek

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wor..._Nuclear_Plant

Video of the third reactor explosion

EDIT:The video link shows "the third reactor" exploding, not the "third explosion," even though the Sky News headline on the clip says "third explosion."


----------



## Toransu

Mornin'. (well, it is on my end at least, same with Japan)
Damn, that was a lot of backread. I hate this fever...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jjsoviet*


Heh, you're in the Phils, bro? I'm originally from there and it's unnerving how our admittedly inferior emergency planning system would respond to such a domino effect of quakes, tsunamis and the possibility of a radiation cloud coming its way. We definitely would be in a far worse situation if a calamity of that magnitude were to happen, especially those in the Manila area.


I know, right? The traffic routing here, the poor building codes, the population density, the crappy flood control (as seen in Typhoon Ketsana/Ondoy). It's all a recipe for disaster. As much as people are praying thanks to God here, I'm not ready to call it safe yet.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sharaktengu*


I can't sense the time passing by anymore, it feels too long and too short at the same time.


Hope everything's okay there, Tengu. Tbh though, the Japanese seem calmer than my people. Hang in there.









The radiation thing just does not look good. I wonder if many Japanese people have fled. I think I might take some time off later and visit the "little Tokyo" part of town, maybe the Japanese bakery I usually go to, to check it out.


----------



## Vlasov_581

so are they in the clear with the nuclear issues?


----------



## oventek

http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/n...35-191816.html

Questionable reliability!!!


----------



## Lampen

Just to provide some information on radiation levels. The average American receives about 295 mrem a year from natural background radiation sources. The radiation level reported by TEPCO at the front gate of the ***ushima No. 1 nuclear power station was 821.7 mrems. This is equivalent to about 2.78 years of natural background radiation. Some sites are reporting 3 - 8 years so I just wanted to clear that up.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12733670*
> Just to provide some information on radiation levels. The average American receives about 295 mrem a year from natural background radiation sources. The radiation level reported by TEPCO at the front gate of the ***ushima No. 1 nuclear power station was 821.7 mrems. This is equivalent to about 2.78 years of natural background radiation. Some sites are reporting 3 - 8 years so I just wanted to clear that up.


Keeping in mind, that's basically right at ground zero.

So it should dissipate by the time it reaches the west coast of North America anyway. We might still get very minor amounts, but not enough to be harmful.

At least that's what I'm praying for.....

EDIT:
What about Hawaii? I'm scheduled to be there next week!


----------



## paulerxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;12733692*
> Keeping in mind, that's basically right at ground zero.
> 
> So it should dissipate by the time it reaches the west coast of North America anyway. We might still get very minor amounts, but not enough to be harmful.
> 
> At least that's what I'm praying for.....
> 
> EDIT:
> What about Hawaii? I'm scheduled to be there next week!


What about countries near Japan? How bad do you think it'll be for them?


----------



## Lampen

Hmmm judging by that map it is assuming a constant level of release from the ***ushima reactors...


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paulerxx;12733708*
> What about countries near Japan? How bad do you think it'll be for them?


You know what....my sympathies do go out to them. Seriously, it does.

But its only human nature to be worried about your OWN being. And I don't want to die from radiation poisoning. It's not that I don't care about the REALLY close people to the problem. It's just that I am MORE worried about my own being at this time.


----------



## molino

the winds are currently blowing from north towards japan
that map posted on reuters is prolly coming from german news when the #3 ractor building blow up


----------



## paulerxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12733670*
> Just to provide some information on radiation levels. The average American receives about 295 mrem a year from natural background radiation sources. The radiation level reported by TEPCO at the front gate of the ***ushima No. 1 nuclear power station was 821.7 mrems. This is equivalent to about 2.78 years of natural background radiation. Some sites are reporting 3 - 8 years so I just wanted to clear that up.


May I have your source?


----------



## molino

heres a great resume of the #2 reactor scenario
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78021.html


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;12733726*
> You know what....my sympathies do go out to them. Seriously, it does.
> 
> But its only human nature to be worried about your OWN being. And I don't want to die from radiation poisoning. It's not that I don't care about the REALLY close people to the problem. It's just that I am MORE worried about my own being at this time.


AH HA! I understand that graph now! That graph is utilizing prior weather patterns and projected radiation releases to form a fallout pattern. Look at the dates that go by.

There is simply too much radiation being pushed into the air for that chart to be real at this point. We haven't had that many emergency releases.


----------



## XAslanX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;12733692*
> Keeping in mind, that's basically right at ground zero.
> 
> So it should dissipate by the time it reaches the west coast of North America anyway. We might still get very minor amounts, but not enough to be harmful.
> 
> At least that's what I'm praying for.....
> 
> EDIT:
> What about Hawaii? I'm scheduled to be there next week!


http://www.stormsurfing.com/cgi/display_alt.cgi?a=glob_250


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Hawaii dodges the jet stream pretty well.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paulerxx;12733793*
> May I have your source?


http://www.doh.wa.gov/ehp/rp/factsheets/factsheets-htm/fs10bkvsman.htm

Double checked in my medical books. If you take in account only natural background sources: 295 mrem/year. If you take into account natural and manmade background radiation: 361 mrem/year.

Thus: 8,217 microsieverts = 821.7 mrems.

Natural Only: 821.7 / 295 = 2.785 years of equivalent radiation per hour of exposure.

Natural and Manmade: 821.7 / 361 = 2.276 years of equivalent radiation per hour of exposure.


----------



## oventek

I edited my earlier post about the video of the third video explosion. Sky news had it listed as third explosion, but showed the explosion of reactor 3. Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## paulerxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12733889*
> http://www.doh.wa.gov/ehp/rp/factsheets/factsheets-htm/fs10bkvsman.htm
> 
> Double checked in my medical books. If you take in account only natural background sources: 295 mrem/year. If you take into account natural and manmade background radiation: 361 mrem/year.
> 
> Thus: 8,217 microsieverts = 821.7 mrems.
> 
> Natural Only: 821.7 / 295 = 2.785 years of equivalent radiation per hour of exposure.
> 
> Natural and Manmade: 821.7 / 361 = 2.276 years of equivalent radiation per hour of exposure.


Thanks mate. +1


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Why such a shortage of info? like wth


----------



## Lampen

Also looking at that map some more it looks like its projecting the direction in which Iodine-131 would be traveling during continuous ventilations. Interesting. I think they were trying to project whether the Japanese Government would have to issue Potassium Iodine tablets to Tokyo... God that would be awful. There are simply too many people for there to be enough...

Based on the map it looks like Tokyo would be hit by Iodine-131 particles sometime between the 15-16, but it would be very low level. However we don't really know enough about the map... Are they really assuming continuous venting or have they actually made that using known ventilations? It just seems like there have been too few ventilations to validate that map.


----------



## oventek

Going to edit the map to read questionable reliability


----------



## Toransu

Christ, to think that the wannabe doomsayers sending chain messages and posting all sorts of BS online were enough. Tokyo's governor Ishihara says that this was all "divine punishment for them". This isn't the first piece of trash this old ****** has spouted, though.









Link. (sorry if it's a bit of a niche site. If I find it again from a more reputable source, I'll edit it in.)

(Edit: also, feel free to warn me if this is too political for the thread. I'll have it off straightaway, in that case. )


----------



## Lampen

@ Laz

Yeah considering what may have happened you would think there would be more information at this point. However, the Japanese Government and TEPCO may want to keep a lid on things until they are absolutely certain what happened so as to not cause panic?


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Toransu;12734022*
> Christ, to think that the wannabe doomsayers sending chain messages and posting all sorts of BS online were enough. Tokyo's governor Ishihara says that this was all "divine punishment for them". This isn't the first piece of trash this old ****** has spouted, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link. (sorry if it's a bit of a niche site. If I find it again from a more reputable source, I'll edit it in.)
> 
> (Edit: also, feel free to warn me if this is too political for the thread. I'll have it off straightaway, in that case. )


Nothing like a natural disaster to bring the crazies out... Can't believe people would make such claims in this day and age.


----------



## oventek

Interesting article with a wikileaks document about nuclear procedures, waste. Possibly ot but interesting nontheless

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/175295


----------



## oventek

0139: martyn_williams tweets: "Japan waiting for (PM) Kan. NHK said it would be "message to nation", rather than news conference".


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oventek;12734134*
> 0139: martyn_williams tweets: "Japan waiting for (PM) Kan. NHK said it would be "message to nation", rather than news conference".


o Christ


----------



## Waffleboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oventek;12734134*
> 0139: martyn_williams tweets: "Japan waiting for (PM) Kan. NHK said it would be "message to nation", rather than news conference".


Maybe it will be a very happy message!

Doesn't sound very hopeful though


----------



## metroidfreak

There's been a third explosion "New blast shakes nuclear plant", no CCN link yet

Interesting video if it hasn't been posted yet.

http://cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2011/03/14/dnt.japan.reactor.explainer.nhk


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oventek;12734134*
> 0139: martyn_williams tweets: "Japan waiting for (PM) Kan. NHK said it would be "message to nation", rather than news conference".


Let's hope its a message regarding the rescue operations or the state of the country after the tsunami/earthquake or an inspirational, "we are all together" kind of speech and not something regarding the reactor.


----------



## Toransu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12734070*
> Nothing like a natural disaster to bring the crazies out... Can't believe people would make such claims in this day and age.


It's especially more sickening that he uses the disaster as leverage for his idiotic stances than actually giving statements about the situation of Tokyo. It also unsettles me how he says that they've become "selfish like the USA".

For those not in the know, this man has passed out some questionable bills that seem too biased by his own views, namely one that bans sales of anime and manga to minors without compliance for content, and some massive censorship bills with that. This would have been all well and good, if only his view wasn't that hardcore manga and anime fans, namely the ones who're socially inept ("otaku"), "have corrupt DNA".









(I may need some more elaboration on this, but this is somewhat OT, so... yeah...)

I wouldn't be surprised if he takes the disaster as his win in that stand.

Anyways, I digress. He's to be worried about *when* Japan recovers. I hope Kan speaks on a different note in that message.


----------



## oventek

I am concerned that Tepco began with 謝罪 (an apology) at its briefing this morning. In Japanese culture, that is significant and perhaps portends something very serious....
comment by Dr. Tako Takani at 9:53 PM


----------



## xd_1771

So I thought radioactive fallout here won't be a concern
And yet I see maps here posted of the jetstream, and it's heading straight on over to BC - and many members lurking and posting with worry
yes or no?


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12734251*
> So I thought radioactive fallout here won't be a concern
> And yet I see maps here posted of the jetstream, and it's heading straight on over to BC - and many members lurking and posting with worry
> yes or no?


I'm worried right along with you bro. Granted I admit, I'm a complete noob with nuclear stuff. So I have no idea if we have to worry or not.

I don't have a bag packed either. But I have a full tank of gas, and a good chunk of change in my pocket. I'm ready to hop in my car and drive to the East Coast if need be. I'll just buy clothes / whatever along the way.


----------



## Eagle1337

Has Mr.Kan said anything yet??


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

ITS LIVE, NHK stream


----------



## metroidfreak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eagle1337;12734295*
> Has Mr.Kan said anything yet??


Not yet. NHK is doing a live stream, starting now


----------



## paulerxx

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv it started


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Exclusion zone 10KM larger


----------



## OcCam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12734251*
> So I thought radioactive fallout here won't be a concern
> And yet I see maps here posted of the jetstream, and it's heading straight on over to BC - and many members lurking and posting with worry
> yes or no?


xd_1771: There is no clear information regarding any large or Dangerous release that could seriously affect you in Van at this time.

If such a release happens it wont hit BC for at least 3 Days.


----------



## Lampen

To pioneer and xd, busy watching press conference, just look for my posts about that map. It's more than likely based on CONTINUOUS release, not the releases we've seen so far which are very limited.


----------



## Vlasov_581

dang he just walked out like that


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Number 4 reactor is on fire?


----------



## metroidfreak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vlasov_581;12734383*
> dang he just walked out like that


It's a conference. He's gave information as a whole and it's going to get more specified through it.


----------



## paulerxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock;12734391*
> Number 4 reactor is on fire?


Yep..It's going the way of 1-3 (correct me if I'm wrong)


----------



## Lampen

Reactor #4 - At the time of quake it was in shutdown, but there is now a fire. There are no fuel rods in it but there is spent fuel. The translator said there is a fire in the reactor. I hope her translation is correct.


----------



## SOCOM_HERO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paulerxx;12734399*
> Yep..It's going the way of 1-3 (correct me if I'm wrong)


source??? that's not good


----------



## Eagle1337

Oh god it's just getting worse............. Son of a


----------



## snoball

So all four reactors at the one side of the facility are damaged and potentially leaking radiation. Any possibility of melt? I think that #2 and 3 are damaged. This deal with #4 sounds like a meltdown. I am not so good with this nuclear stuff though so IDK.


----------



## Lampen

Reactor #2 news. A hole is observed in the Reactor #2's pressure vessel due to the explosion from the pressure-suppression system.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Debris from the other explosions fell on Reactor 4 and started the fire


----------



## Flack88

Ill be dammned if that confrence hasnt just caused mass panic!


----------



## metroidfreak

Reactor 4 is down completely. Just stuff is burning. So there wouldn't be a meltdown from there.


----------



## Epitope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock;12734441*
> Debris from the other explosions fell on Reactor 4 and started the fire


Well if it is an external structure fire it shouldn't be that big of a deal. The reactor is shielded inside a strong steel casing and bathed in water. As long as the fire isn't from the reactor itself I am hoping this will not be a huge problem.


----------



## paulerxx

"Reactor number 4 did not have active nuclear fuel inside, only depleted rods." and no I do not have a source, I may be wrong. I hope I am...


----------



## metroidfreak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paulerxx;12734491*
> "Reactor number 4 did not have active nuclear fuel inside, only depleted rods." and no I do not have a source, I may be wrong. I hope I am...


Yes, according to the conference, there are no rods in number 4. Only spent cooling.


----------



## SOCOM_HERO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metroidfreak;12734466*
> Reactor 4 is down completely. Just stuff is burning. So there wouldn't be a meltdown from there.


if that is true, that is very good news, since the alternative source for the fire would sure be a SERIOUS issue indeed. This news conference is full of both good and bad news as far as I can tell.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Epitope;12734486*
> Well if it is an external structure fire it shouldn't be that big of a deal. The reactor is shielded inside a strong steel casing and bathed in water. As long as the fire isn't from the reactor itself I am hoping this will not be a huge problem.


reactor itself is not on fire.


----------



## Buzzin92

is it me or did they just say they are measuring in millie cieverts now :S


----------



## sLowEnd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Epitope;12734486*
> Well if it is an external structure fire it shouldn't be that big of a deal. The reactor is shielded inside a strong steel casing and bathed in water. As long as the fire isn't from the reactor itself I am hoping this will not be a huge problem.


It depends where the spent fuel is being kept in Reactor 4.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

some of these comments are so dumb, people in Florida and Maine saying" well how long do i have do stay indoors?"


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzin92;12734517*
> is it me or did they just say they are measuring in milli cieverts now :S


They are....


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eagle1337;12734535*
> They are....


thats not good


----------



## kurt1288

Really, there's been 3 explosions and now a fire, and nothing serious (like a meltdown) has occured (not to downplay the seriousness of what's already happened). I think that thing could have been much worse already and they haven't, so they're doing something right.


----------



## Krymore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock;12734531*
> some of these comments are so dumb, people in Florida and Maine saying" well how long do i have do stay indoors?"


Thats because 70% of the country is uneducated. Where talking about nuclear power. Some people dont even know how solar or wind power works, let alone nuclear.

Yes you are all going to have kids with 3 eyes or mutate into the hulk. Please do us all a favor and stay inside lol.


----------



## Toransu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock;12734531*
> some of these comments are so dumb, people in Florida and Maine saying" well how long do i have do stay indoors?"


I've said it once, and I'll say it again: comments sections everywhere can be real idiot magnets.

On-topic: a mixed bag, but it doesn't seem so good. It could be far worse, but I wouldn't blame the Japanese if they'd get riled up now...


----------



## Lampen

Did anyone else hear them say a range of 300-400 mSv? Want to confirm that before I post it. That's a dangerous level of radiation if it's per hour.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12734615*
> Did anyone else hear them say a range of 300-400 mSv? Want to confirm that before I post it. That's a dangerous level of radiation if it's per hour.


yes msv


----------



## Buzzin92

i heard mSv but not sure on the amount/h


----------



## Krymore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12734615*
> Did anyone else hear them say a range of 300-400 mSv? Want to confirm that before I post it. That's a dangerous level of radiation if it's per hour.


They said if anyone in this kind of environment would be exposed to more than 3 years' worth of naturally occurring radiation within a single hour.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock;12734634*
> yes msv


Yeah I got the unit, but I thought I heard him say 300something mSv/hr near one of the reactors?


----------



## Buzzin92

oh god, just heard again, its 400mSv at reactor 4

Reactor 3 i mean


----------



## Lampen

Crap they just said it didn't anyone else catch it!?

Edit: Alright buzzin heard it too! Thanks for confirming!


----------



## metroidfreak

Yes, they said mSv.. the news lady said 400 mSv close to the reactor.


----------



## snoball

What is this neutron radiation I hear of?


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12734670*
> Crap they just said it didn't anyone else catch it!?


I can confirm both of your Questions are correct, I wish I couldn't.


----------



## Mapster

Reactor #3 400 milliSv. Reactor #4 100 milliSv


----------



## oventek

confirmed 400 msv.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

omg 400!? theres deff a breach


----------



## SOCOM_HERO

yes 300-400 MICRO sv....it is harmful to human health, 1000x higher than mili.sv

can cause infertility and blood issues according to news reports

edit: Protective gear is necessary with in 20 KM radius


----------



## metroidfreak

They're explaining it now. The levels are enough to damage DNA and cause infertility quickly.

400mSv at reactor 3.
100mSv at reactor 4.

20Km mandatory evacuation order.
20-30Km mandatory indoor order.


----------



## Lampen

News Flash - According to new reports Reactor 4's radiation level is 300 - 400 mSv per hour.

1 Sv = 1000 mSv.

Exposure and Mortality Ratings

1-2 Sv(100 - 200 rads) - Mortality without medical care 0-5%, mortality with medical care 0-5% (3-7 hours unprotected exposure)

2-6 Sv(200-600 rads) - Mortality without medical care 5-100%, mortality with medical care 0-50% (7 - 20 hours unprotected exposure)

6-8 Sv(600-800 rads) - Mortality without medical care 95-100%, mortality with medical care 95-100% (20 - 26.6 hours unprotected exposure)

8-30 Sv(800-3000 rads) - Mortality without medical care 100%, mortality with medical care 100% (26.6 - 100 hours unprotected exposure)

>30 Sv(>3000 rads) - Mortality without medical care 100%, mortality with medical care 100% (100+ hours unprotected exposure)

*Remember the levels being reported are in close proximity to Reactor #3-4, not the rest of the complex or surrounding area.*


----------



## molino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12734429*
> Reactor #2 news. A hole is observed in the Reactor #2's pressure vessel due to the explosion from the pressure-suppression system.


this confirms that the 400 msv is radioactive steam from the #2 nuclear pressure vessel
edit lampen are you sure this major radiation activity is coming from #4?


----------



## Krymore

I like how they are telling people to stay indoors. My ass would be driving far away lol.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

breach anyone?


----------



## gotasavage2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krymore;12734740*
> I like how they are telling people to stay indoors. My ass would be driving far away lol.


I concur


----------



## Buzzin92

i know this is far away from where i live but im still nervous


----------



## Krymore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzin92;12734754*
> i know this is far away from where i live but im still nervous


Afraid of what? Your in the UK. Radiation from this type of reactor would NEVER make it to you.


----------



## pioneerisloud

400 mSv near #3 and 4.


----------



## gotasavage2

How good is this protective clothing there talking about? because this just seems like suicide missions for the workers.


----------



## Fusion Racing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzin92;12734754*
> i know this is far away from where i live but im still nervous


Unless you're planning to fly to Japan for some intimate time with the reactors then its not an issue.

Uber props to Lampen for constantly updating the thread too.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *molino;12734732*
> this confirms that the 400 msv is radioactive steam from the #2 nuclear pressure vessel
> edit lampen are you sure this major radiation activity is coming from #4?


I've heard 4 being stated as the more radioactive one so far. Haven't heard much on 3.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

yeah lampen should get a medal for this


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gotasavage2;12734782*
> How good is this protective clothing there talking about? because this just seems like suicide missions for the workers.


Not a suicide mission, but the gear is quite good. They could work for several hours around the reactors with no problems.


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12734811*
> Not a suicide mission, but the gear is quite good. They could work for several hours around the reactors with no problems.


They've been there for more then several now.


----------



## Waffleboy

This makes me want to order a NBC (nuclear-chemical-biological) suit. Not because the radiation from _this_ disaster could reach me, just as a precaution for future disasters. Plus it could be a cool Halloween costume.


----------



## biaxident

been following this thread since the beggining hope all turn ok and +rep for lampen for the amazing work. (sry for my bad english im still learning)


----------



## molino

#
NEWS ADVISORY: Radiation of up to 9 times normal level briefly detected in Kanagawa
#
11:37 15 March
BREAKING NEWS: Radiation 400 times annual legal limit measured near No. 3 reactor

k this confirms what the secretary briefly said in the conference
source from kyodo


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krymore;12734771*
> Afraid of what? Your in the UK. Radiation from this type of reactor would NEVER make it to you.


Im not afraid, and i know it won't make it anywhere near me. Just nervous for the people that will be affected by this... I know quite a few people in Japan.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12734789*
> I've heard 4 being stated as the more radioactive one so far. Haven't heard much on 3.


Not sure how that's possible since #4 has no nuclear fuel in it; right now the counts are 10 mSv/hr (I think) at unit 1, 30 mSv/hr between units 2 and 3, 300 mSv/hr in close proximity to unit 3, and 100 mSv/hr in close proximity to unit 4.

Remember; the values are in MILLI sV, not MICRO sV.


----------



## Toransu

Yeah, definitely gonna check that bakery later. Maybe buying from there might actually help, knowing my money's going to a real Japanese person, with family that're odds are still out there...

Maybe the workers have shifts? That way no one worker would be out for too long?

In any case, they deserve medals too. I wouldn't imagine myself going out there to deal with that stuff, even with protective suits on...


----------



## Lampen

Op updated with new information. There are still conflicting reports of what reactor is emitting the radiation. It is either #4 or it is a mix of #2 and #3.

Thanks for the radiation info CC. Going to try to confirm.


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;12734869*
> Not sure how that's possible since #4 has no nuclear fuel in it; right now the counts are 10 mSv/hr (I think) at unit 1, 30 mSv/hr between units 2 and 3, 300 mSv/hr in close proximity to unit 3, and 100 mSv/hr in close proximity to unit 4.
> 
> Remember; the values are in MILLI sV, not MICRO sV.


Out of complete curiosity (and as a point of reference), anyone know what the normal numbers here would be?


----------



## sLowEnd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;12734869*
> Not sure how that's possible since #4 has no nuclear fuel in it; right now the counts are 10 mSv/hr (I think) at unit 1, 30 mSv/hr between units 2 and 3, 300 mSv/hr in close proximity to unit 3, and 100 mSv/hr in close proximity to unit 4.
> 
> Remember; the values are in MILLI sV, not MICRO sV.


#4 houses spent fuel


----------



## Rebelord

Great, now there about to get snowed on. So gonna have a bunch of ppl freezing. Hopefully, they can open fireplaces for some heat. Carbon Monoxide would be a bad way to go after surviving so far.


----------



## molino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12734892*
> Op updated with new information. There are still conflicting reports of what reactor is emitting the radiation. It is either #4 or it is a mix of #2 and #3.
> 
> Thanks for the radiation info CC. Going to try to confirm.


the japanese nhk news report said that there is steam radiations coming from #4 reactor due to the fire issue
meanwhile nobody really mentioned any specific reactor causing the 400 msv radiations
kyodo says Radiation 400 times annual legal limit measured near No. 3 reactor
but im still pretty confident that the actual recorded radiation of 300-400msv is coming from the pressure container breach

edit nhk world confirmed which reactor are emitting radiations


----------



## Lampen

OP updated with all new information.


----------



## molino

BREAKING NEWS: Hydrogen explosion occurs at ***ushima No. 4 reactor (11:53)


----------



## paulerxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *molino;12735023*
> BREAKING NEWS: Hydrogen explosion occurs at ***ushima No. 4 reactor (11:53)










WHAT THE ****!!!! Can they not get a goddamn break!!!!


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *molino;12735023*
> BREAKING NEWS: Hydrogen explosion occurs at ***ushima No. 4 reactor (11:53)


Where'd you read this?

Here's a suggestion. When posting an update like this, include the source.


----------



## jjsoviet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *molino;12735023*
> BREAKING NEWS: Hydrogen explosion occurs at ***ushima No. 4 reactor (11:53)


Oh, great. Is that not-that-bad, bad, very bad or horribad?


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *molino;12735023*
> BREAKING NEWS: Hydrogen explosion occurs at ***ushima No. 4 reactor (11:53)


If this is correct son of a gun.....
Kurt: Kyodo news reported it.


----------



## molino

kyodo have direct contact with tepco lastest news that can be confirmed on many news feed( bbc live feed quotes kyodo whenever they can update their website)

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/index.html
also the #4 reactor fire is coming from the 4th floor of the reactor building where the spent fuel is stored. which caused part of the 400 msv radiation


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Source cmon source

NvM ^^^


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paulerxx;12735050*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHAT THE ****!!!! Can they not get a goddamn break!!!!


Please. Ease up on the swearing, really.


----------



## XAslanX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurt1288;12735057*
> Where'd you read this?
> 
> Here's a suggestion. When posting an update like this, include the source.


http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/


----------



## metroidfreak

Explosion 4 was just posted to RT_com twitter


----------



## SOCOM_HERO

source confirmation on that last post?????


----------



## Lampen

Explosion confirmed. Trying to locate photos and video.


----------



## Lampen

Reuters reports Winds over the stricken nuclear plant are blowing slowly towards the Kanto region, which includes Tokyo.

Going to clean OP up a bit so that news on Reactors 1-4 can be readily distinguished.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

So the "Normal Fire" has ignited a nitrogen leak


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12735120*
> Reuters reports Winds over the stricken nuclear plant are blowing slowly towards the Kanto region, which includes Tokyo.
> 
> Going to clean OP up a bit so that news on Reactors 1-4 can be readily distinguished.


Remember, you could use the spoiler tag to shorten what's initially shown.


----------



## paulerxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;12735082*
> Please. Ease up on the swearing, really.


What swearing!? **** = crap.


----------



## Toransu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12735120*
> Reuters reports Winds over the stricken nuclear plant are blowing slowly towards the Kanto region, which includes Tokyo.
> 
> Going to clean OP up a bit so that news on Reactors 1-4 can be readily distinguished.


That means the winds blew southwest, right?

...*gulp*


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Toransu;12735151*
> That means the winds blew southwest, right?
> 
> ...*gulp*


Slightly South West. Tokyo is southern to the left.


----------



## kurt1288

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/ is reporting the fire at Reactor 4 is now put out and that the explosion was a hydrogen explosion.


----------



## Lampen

This map is now relevant due to the large releases of radioactivity being reported.










I will add this to the OP shortly.


----------



## Wildcard36qs

AC360 is looping now...wonder what happened to Anderson? They just mentioned the Reactor 4 fire and now they are showing older footage.


----------



## xd_1771

That map above does show that the winds change and blow towards Tokyo for a bit.... that doesn't seem that good
With radiation levels in the area now hazardous to human health... o noez


----------



## Toransu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock;12735181*
> Slightly South West. Tokyo is southern to the left.


Knew it... Guess what else is in that direction...









Well, at least I know it won't be *Acid* rain, lol. Here's hoping it won't make it here.


----------



## xd_1771

The winds do seem to be blowing in that direction
Radioactivity doesn't necessarily cause acid I think
50 million people about to potentially be mutated... let's hope for the best everyone


----------



## Buzzin92

NHK ustream has just gone off air. Anyone know why?


----------



## jcf1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurt1288;12735184*
> http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/ is reporting the fire at Reactor 4 is now put out and that the explosion was a hydrogen explosion.


Now when they say put out, the question stands was it put out by the crew at the plant or the fact that it burned itself out in, say, a nitrogen explosion.

These poor guys at/ around this plant just can't get a break. So let's see.

First Reactor 1 blows. No containment issues
Then Reactor 3 blows. More damage to building but still no major release.
Subsequently 2 blows and breaks the pressure vessel causing a substantial release which is now being blows toward Tokyo.
Fire starts at the SHUTDOWN reactor 4 and causes that to blow.

Let's how 5 and 6 don't decide to spontaneously catch fire now (I know this isn't possible).


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

mutated, bad choice of words.

anyway, that radiation diminished rather quickly over the Pacific.


----------



## Toransu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock;12735246*
> mutated, bad choice of words.
> 
> anyway, that radiation diminished rather quickly over the Pacific.


I hope the South China Sea's pretty comparable in size...

Edit: I guess we should worry more about the people in Tokyo, though. Population there must be dense right now, and I hope they don't go into a panic.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzin92;12735234*
> NHK ustream has just gone off air. Anyone know why?


second stream

http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv43296023


----------



## TaNgY

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/

official stream


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock;12735283*
> second stream
> 
> http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv43296023


Thanks


----------



## OcCam

Would the forecasted rain actually be a good thing for this situation?

Maybe scrub some of the radioactive particles from the air and wash them from exposed surfaces?

I dont think it would be an issue like Chernobyl as there is no exposed/burning Fuel to react with the water.


----------



## Obakemono

It seems that #4 reactor is on fire now


----------



## XAslanX

nhk ustream is back up.


----------



## robchaos

Wow this is all so horrible. Those 50 workers who stayed behind are heros. Unfortunately they are also probably going to be Martyrs. They are now facing radiation levels that have 50% + fatality rate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_poisoning


----------



## Lampen

OP updated and ***ushima I news now divided into sections devoted to individual reactors and general news. Should make for easier reading.


----------



## Obakemono

This is the bad part about this issue is that there is no clear, accurate news. I have family living in Tokyo, this REALLY worries me.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OcCam;12735330*
> Would the forecasted rain actually be a good thing for this situation?
> 
> Maybe scrub some of the radioactive particles from the air and wash them from exposed surfaces?
> 
> I dont think it would be an issue like Chernobyl as there is no exposed/burning Fuel to react with the water.


Where would the radioactive particulates go? They'd get absorbed by the rain and land right in the area-as opposed to being blown out to sea for the most part....and get into the local water table.

Chernobyl did not burn fuel off. If burned the graphite moderator, which in absorbing neutrons became very radioactive, off. The flames also carried radiosotopes from the fuel rods.


----------



## sLowEnd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *robchaos;12735373*
> Wow this is all so horrible. Those 50 workers who stayed behind are heros. Unfortunately they are also probably going to be Martyrs. They are now facing radiation levels that have 50% + fatality rate
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_poisoning


Much like the Chernobyl Liquidators.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

i havent been on in a couple of days can someone fill me in alittle. I hear there have been fires & such. are they getting it under control or what. I read the front page but i want to hear from you guys


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4LC4PON3;12735408*
> i havent been on in a couple of days can someone fill me in alittle. I hear there have been fires & such. are they getting it under control or what. I read the front page but i want to hear from you guys


A fire at unit 4 was started by debris from previous explosions, however following a hydrogen explosion at the same unit they extinguished that fire.


----------



## metroidfreak

All news crews have been forced to evacuate for safety concerns. Which is why there isn't as many current news feeds.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sLowEnd;12735400*
> Much like the Chernobyl Liquidators.


Pffft. Not even close as of yet. Chernobyl was WAY hotter in terms of radioactivity. In some areas of chernobyl firefighters received lethal doses in a few minutes. This is a mess, and will get worse but it ain't Chernobyl.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *robchaos;12735373*
> Wow this is all so horrible. Those 50 workers who stayed behind are heros. Unfortunately they are also probably going to be Martyrs. They are now facing radiation levels that have 50% + fatality rate
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_poisoning


It's going to take several dozen hours for them to reach those levels of exposure though. Plus those levels are only in very close proximity to the reactor. In the latest reports the control room was ok.

Edit: A fire which broke out Tuesday at ***ushima has now been extinguished, media reports say. Good news!!!!!


----------



## robchaos

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78063.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Reactor 2 Container vessel is damaged. That means pressure can't build up, cores can't be flooded, and radiation will continue to leak. They are worried that this will develop into a "critical meltdown situation"


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skripka;12735439*
> Pffft. Not even close as of yet. Chernobyl was WAY hotter in terms of radioactivity. In some areas of chernobyl firefighters received lethal doses in a few minutes. This is a mess, and will get worse but it ain't Chernobyl.


Sometimes in less than a minute. The radioactivity at Chernobyl was ridiculously high. Nothing compared to this.


----------



## robchaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12735459*
> It's going to take several dozen hours for them to reach those levels of exposure though. Plus those levels are only in very close proximity to the reactor. In the latest reports the control room was ok.
> 
> Edit: A fire which broke out Tuesday at ***ushima has now been extinguished, media reports say. Good news!!!!!


ok thats a relief for them then. I am not sure of the level of protection Rad suits offer, but I don't think they help well against the energetic fierce stuff that the mox rods emit.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skripka;12735439*
> Pffft. Not even close as of yet. Chernobyl was WAY hotter in terms of radioactivity. In some areas of chernobyl firefighters received lethal doses in a few minutes. This is a mess, and will get worse but it ain't Chernobyl.


Those poor guys, some of them didn't even last a day. Chernobyl was an outright deception on the governments part.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

I see it only getting worse


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4LC4PON3;12735506*
> im not sure if i see Japan getting control of this. I see it only getting worse


While also getting better.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *robchaos;12735503*
> 
> Those poor guys, some of them didn't even last a day. Chernobyl was an outright deception on the governments part.


Something to think about. All those aerial photos from helicopters that we have of Chernobyl...all those pilots and photographers got lethal doses taking those photos of the open core.


----------



## kurt1288

Something annoying is the inconsistency in reporting radiation limits: "...8,217 microsieverts an hour from 1,941 about 40 minutes earlier, Tepco said. The annual legal limit is 1,000 microsieverts." I assume they mean 1,000 mSv/hr.

Just bugs me because of all the schooling I did and how much of using correct units was engraved into my brain.


----------



## robchaos

This seems like it has been the perfect storm of conditions for things to just spiral out of control. The plant would have been able to handle the earthquake just fine, or even a smaller tsunami, IIRC the plant could have survived a 7m wave, but the one that hit was 10m. The basement was flooded, the generators had grit and particles in them causing them to fail quickly, then things snowballed from there.


----------



## Lampen

A low level radioactive wind could reach Tokyo in 10 hours, Reuters is quoting the French embassy in the Japanese capital as saying.


----------



## metroidfreak

They went from micro to milli because the amounts have begun to rise.


----------



## robchaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurt1288;12735531*
> Something annoying is the inconsistency in reporting radiation limits: "...8,217 microsieverts an hour from 1,941 about 40 minutes earlier, Tepco said. The annual legal limit is 1,000 microsieverts." I assume they mean 1,000 mSv/hr.
> 
> Just bugs me because of all the schooling I did and how much of using correct units was engraved into my brain.


Actually, the japanese prime minister had clarified during the NHK live feed they actually ment Millisieverts, not Micro.
That is a 50-100% chance of fatality WITH medical treatment.


----------



## molino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;12735393*
> This is the bad part about this issue is that there is no clear, accurate news. I have family living in Tokyo, this REALLY worries me.


yes there is, the main update feeds from tepco latest development are being posted
here
http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/

those two feeds have the latest development concerning the ***ushima nuclear number one plant

meanwhile nhk world will cover the entire disaster including live japanese press conference
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv

also official TEPCO website will report in detail the status the most the of the nuclear reactor in danger
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/index-e.html

every other news channel websites such as BBC/CNN etc will likely quote kyodo's report on the latest development but may also quotes tweets from scientist regarding the overall situation


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *robchaos;12735564*
> Actually, the japanese prime minister had clarified during the NHK live feed they actually ment Millisieverts, not Micro.
> That is almost 100% chance of fatality.


Ya, I was just quoting the article. Regardless of micro or milli, at least they could be consistent and say mSv/hr. There is a difference between mSv and mSv/hr.


----------



## snoball

Off to bed. Hope for updates by morning. Good luck Japan.


----------



## robchaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurt1288;12735581*
> Ya, I was just quoting the article. Regardless of micro or milli, at least they could be consistent and say mSv/hr. There is a difference between mSv and mSv/hr.


yeah I know, but unfortunately consistency does not seem to be something they are good at. Right now I'm sure they are trying to prevent widespread panic over what is turning out to be a complete catastrophe that will effect more then just japan. either way that is a lethal dose of radiation. 8mSv/hr is just as bad if you are there for any amount of time. Smaller fractionated doses can actually be worse then one large dose.


----------



## kurt1288

EDIT. Wrong, THIS says the total dose of Chernobyl was 80,000 Sieverts, although some people received "significantly higher doses).


----------



## Buzzin92

BREAKING NEWS: Small amounts of radioactive substances detected in Tokyo

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/


----------



## Lampen

Indicating the severity of the nuclear crisis and the damage caused by the tsunami and earthquake, the Nikkei has dropped by 14.65% in the last 48 hours.


----------



## Toransu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzin92;12735644*
> BREAKING NEWS: Small amounts of radioactive substances detected in Tokyo
> 
> http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/


Oh lord, no...









Any word on if the people were prepared?


----------



## robchaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurt1288;12735621*
> EDIT. Wrong, THIS says the total dose of Chernobyl was 80,000 Sieverts, although some people received "significantly higher doses).


80 Sv is 100% chance of death within a day or two. While Chernobyl was much worse then this, the people of Japan will still see the effects of this over the years with heightened cancer and birth defect rates.
and there is still the fear that this will turn into a full blown out of control meltdown instead of a "controlled meltdown" like they have had so far


----------



## Buzzin92

the radiation level in Tokyo has risen from 20 cpm three hours ago to 90 cpm as of five minutes ago. park18.wakwak.com park18.wakwak.com This is not a dangerous dosage.

http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2


----------



## molino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzin92;12735644*
> BREAKING NEWS: Small amounts of radioactive substances detected in Tokyo
> 
> http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/


correct, a small amount which is not a dangerous dosage
here you can see the normal level of radiation is between 0-20
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/%E3%82%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AC%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AB%E3%82%A6%E3%83%B3%E3%82%BF


----------



## jjsoviet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzin92;12735698*
> the radiation level in Tokyo has risen from 20 cpm three hours ago to 90 cpm as of five minutes ago. park18.wakwak.com park18.wakwak.com This is not a dangerous dosage.
> 
> http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2


Hope it doesn't rise. We don't want the Japanese people experience severe dosages of radiation.

Any recent news on the containment/damage of reactor #4?


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzin92;12735698*
> the radiation level in Tokyo has risen from 20 cpm three hours ago to 90 cpm as of five minutes ago. park18.wakwak.com park18.wakwak.com This is not a dangerous dosage.
> 
> http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2


Google Translation:
Quote:


> Alpha radiation, beta radiation, gamma radiation total
> The vertical axis of the Geiger counts per minute (CPM)
> 100 CPM microsievert about 1 / hr
> Location: latitude: 35 ° 39 '28.08 ", Tsune Azuma: 139 ° 24'05 .40", altitude: 101m Hitoshi Minami 2-chome, Hino, Tokyo, two-story wooden house near the window
> Measurement start: 2005.11.3
> Every 10 minutes, it comes up, please refer to the latest data reload
> Gaigakaunta
> Nuclear weapon test is done in neighboring countries, it has become dangerous, decided to measure the radiation dose at home. Radiation is measured using a Gaigakaunta, can not get first in the country. The U.S. company called Black Cat Systems, to PCs, sells a Gaigakaunta. You can get a reasonable cost by mail. The type of USB connection, web access with the software, $ 199US was.
> Every minute counts the number of discharges of Geiger tube, the chart displays the values. Is it the blue line and red dot. This is a random event from occurring, and Gaussian. Representation of the average gray lines. The average (Mean), standard deviation (Std Div), minimum (Min), maximum (Max) is calculated, is shown below the graph.
> Unit represents the amount of radiation health effects in Sv, the old units has been used Rem. The 100 rem 1 Sv. That count is measured every minute Gaigakaunta 1 CPM (count per minute) is expressed in the case of 100 CPM microsievert Gaigaaunta purchased about 1 / hr is equivalent to.
> Measurement result, the local average at around 15 CPM = 0.15 microsievert / hr is equivalent to. Global average of 2.4 mSv radiation dose of nature / It seemed a year, and again to 0.27 per hour microsievert / hr, so here it is about half.





















So this is an individual doing all this it seems. Interesting post. Thanks Buzzin. I'm interested to see if any official news reports surface like this.


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12735773*
> Google Translation:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is an individual doing all this it seems. Interesting post. Thanks Buzzin. I'm interested to see if any official news reports surface like this.


no problem, just trying to help with the info. going to bed now. will check back at college.


----------



## robchaos

http://www.radiationnetwork.com/RadiationNetwork.htm For anyone on the west coast who wants to monitor. Unfortunately it does not show Hawaii.

They are trying to get a monitor active in Tokyo but have not had a response yet, but maybe that will change
http://www.radiationnetwork.com/Japan.htm


----------



## Lampen

Official Announcement from Tokyo City Government - Radiation levels within the city are indeed higher than normal. However they are not hazardous levels.


----------



## sLowEnd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skripka;12735439*
> Pffft. Not even close as of yet. Chernobyl was WAY hotter in terms of radioactivity. In some areas of chernobyl firefighters received lethal doses in a few minutes. This is a mess, and will get worse but it ain't Chernobyl.


I was referring to their acts, not their level of exposure.

These workers are still exposing themselves to high levels of radiation.


----------



## jjsoviet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12735805*
> Official Announcement from Tokyo City Government - Radiation levels within the city are indeed higher than normal. However they are not hazardous levels.


Hope it won't go any higher.

Realistically though, given the current developments in containing the nuclear reactors... will radiation levels rise anytime soon?


----------



## robchaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jjsoviet;12735821*
> Hope it won't go any higher.
> 
> Realistically though, given the current developments in containing the nuclear reactors... will radiation levels rise anytime soon?


If you're talking about Japan, yes. The winds are blowing towards Tokyo and levels will slowly rise. If you are talking about the west coast, that has yet to be seen.


----------



## jjsoviet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *robchaos;12735834*
> If you're talking about Japan, yes. The winds are blowing towards Tokyo and levels will slowly rise. If you are talking about the west coast, that has yet to be seen.


I see. Dang hope everything goes all right for these folks. Unnerving, to say the least.


----------



## robchaos

Everyone donate to the red cross if you can spare it. If you want it to go straight towards the Japanese, you have the option to select which cause to donate towards on their website donations page. They will need all the help they can get over there.


----------



## molino

guys remember

_Winds over stricken Japan nuclear plant blowing in southwestern direction: meteorological agency
_Winds over stricken Japan nuclear plant to shift later on Tuesday and blow in westerly direction: meteorological agency


----------



## Lampen

NHK world reported increases in radiation in several cities and towns of 2x - 5x times the normal level at several points. These increases were largely shortlived and all have now returned to normal.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

NHK World Live just reported that a monitoring station in central Tokyo did NOT detect higher than normal radioactivity. I know that conflicts with other reports but it's a separate one.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sLowEnd;12735809*
> I was referring to their acts, not their level of exposure.
> 
> These workers are still exposing themselves to high levels of radiation.


Bear in mind, that most of the people lethally dosed at the plant had no idea what they were doing, or being exposed to. When plant-workers dose-meters were reading off the chart, they thought they had a bad batch of dose-meters that were simply reading incorrectly.

Their acts may have been heroic...but the overwhelming majority were utterly ignorant about what their work would cost, or that there even was a price to pay. Most of the first responders thought they were responding to a mere electrical fire, and not the shattered remains of an open-air nuclear reactor core, that blew off its 2000-ton steel lid, burning off radiosotopes with unprecedented then or since levels of radiation.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12735888*
> NHK world reported increases in radiation in several cities and towns of 2x - 5x times the normal level at several points. These increases were largely shortlived and all have now returned to normal.


that's good to hear. Let's just hope that nothing serious decided to occur again.


----------



## Lampen

Economic crisis possibly in progress... Nikkei currently down 14% for the day so far. Down 21% over the last 48 hours.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;12735893*
> NHK World Live just reported that a monitoring station in central Tokyo did NOT detect higher than normal radioactivity. I know that conflicts with other reports but it's a separate one.


Yep just saw that. Updating OP.


----------



## robchaos

well, bedtime for me. Goodnight and I wish the best of luck to anyone who might be reading this from overseas close to or in japan. Hopefully I will wake up to better news.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skripka;12735898*
> Bear in mind, that most of the people lethally dosed at the plant had no idea what they were doing, or being exposed to. When plant-workers dose-meters were reading off the chart, they thought they had a bad batch of dose-meters that were simply reading correctly.
> 
> Their acts may have been heroic...but the overwhelming majority were utterly ignorant about what their work would cost, or that there even was a price to pay. Most of the first responders thought they were responding to a mere electrical fire, and not the shattered remains of an open-air nuclear reactor core, that blew off its 2000-ton steel lid, burning off radiosotopes.


True, but unlike what's occurring now, everything with Chernobyl was like that. It was all just human errors combined, this on the other hand is kind of out of their hands with mother nature.

Unless that's what you're trying to point out of course


----------



## xd_1771

Great to hear
But I don't want to wake up in the morning with millions half dead mutated zombies who manages to swim across the ocean sitting there on the BC shoreline
(just kidding







I hope that seriously never happens. But with 50 million people who were never evacuated due to 1. the earthquake not devastating the city and 2. tsunami not hitting there, then there is in fact a lot to risk)


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12735962*
> Great to hear
> But I don't want to wake up in the morning with millions half dead mutated zombies who manages to swim across the ocean sitting there on the BC shoreline
> (just kidding
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope that seriously never happens. But with 50 million people who were never evacuated due to 1. the earthquake not devastating the city and 2. tsunami not hitting there, then there is in fact a lot to risk)


careful. They might crucify you for joking like that.


----------



## xxrabid93

Man, this situation seems to keep getting worse.







I really hope it all stabilizes out, and soon!


----------



## Lampen

Thailand is to start doing random tests of imported Japanese food products for possible radiation contamination, the country's food and drug agency is quoted as saying by Reuters.


----------



## s-x

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *robchaos;12735834*
> If you're talking about Japan, yes. The winds are blowing towards Tokyo and levels will slowly rise. If you are talking about the west coast, that has yet to be seen.


wait what????

I have no education in this subject but it seems crazy that the radiation could blow to the west coast of America.

Dont get me wrong, I care about the people in Japan and hope for the best for them, but I'd like to know if what you said is remotely possible.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s-x;12736048*
> wait what????
> 
> I have no education in this subject but it seems crazy that the radiation could blow to the west coast of America.
> 
> Dont get me wrong, I care about the people in Japan and hope for the best for them, but I'd like to know if what you said is remotely possible.


It's possible, but very, VERY unlikely that the West Coast will get anything harmful to human health.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s-x;12736048*
> wait what????
> 
> I have no education in this subject but it seems crazy that the radiation could blow to the west coast of America.
> 
> Dont get me wrong, I care about the people in Japan and hope for the best for them, but I'd like to know if what you said is remotely possible.


Possible? Sure. Is it very likely that any few of such particles reaching the US48 would do at most anything than give you a light sunburn you'd get from living in California anyway? No, not likely.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s-x;12736048*
> wait what????
> 
> I have no education in this subject but it seems crazy that the radiation could blow to the west coast of America.
> 
> Dont get me wrong, I care about the people in Japan and hope for the best for them, but I'd like to know if what you said is remotely possible.


Yes it is possible, but improbable right now. Some particles that are being released could make it to the west coast under the right weather conditions, but for large amounts to make it there it would require large scale release of radioactive materials into the upper atmosphere. Currently the reactor crisis is for the most part a local problem, not a global one.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12736096*
> Yes it is possible, but improbable right now. Some particles that are being released could make it to the west coast under the right weather conditions, but for large amounts to make it there it would require large scale release of radioactive materials into the upper atmosphere. Currently the reactor crisis is for the most part a local problem, not a global one.


Even with large releases a la Chernobyl, it is VERY any considerable amount would make it to the US48 to be any kind of health concern.


----------



## gdansk

I'm surprised by how many people are worrying about radioactive material release in North America... Such a scenario (that this incident will even have a significant effect here) is not going to happen.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skripka;12736126*
> Even with large releases a la Chernobyl, it is VERY any considerable amount would make it to the US48 to be any kind of health concern.


Like I said, it would require a large scale release into the upper atmosphere for it to happen.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12736150*
> Like I said, it would require a large scale release into the upper atmosphere for it to happen.


Simply having an open-air reactor core wouldn't do it. Most of the particulates would fallout over the Pacific and never reach the US48. For any kind of meaningful health risk to occur in the US due to this is so astronomically low that it isn't worth losing sleep over.

That being said, life on earth has been obliterated by astronomically-low probability events like life-ending asteroid strikes. So sleep tight y'all.


----------



## aweir

Part of the fear of radiation is that it's something you can't see that can kill you instantly or not hurt you at all. Radiation is not like a wave that you can see. You can't see it coming, so it just makes people even more frightened because you can't see it. And without a Geiger counter you can't prove it's *not* there.

amirite. Fear of something that can't be seen.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skripka;12736192*
> Simply having an open-air reactor core wouldn't do it. Most of the particulates would fallout over the Pacific and never reach the US48. For any kind of meaningful health risk to occur in the US due to this is so astronomically low that it isn't worth losing sleep over.


Just as I've said to people since this has started. You'd need a Chernobyl like sequence of events for this to occur which quite simply isn't going to happen.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12736197*
> Part of the fear is that something you can't see that can kill you instantly. Radiation is not like a wave that you can see, so it just makes people even more frightened because you can't see it. And without a Geiger counter you can't prove it's not there.
> 
> amirite. Fear of something that can't be seen.


Fear of something that not only cannot be seen...but most of the population does not understand any of the common terms used in discussing radiation to any level beyond a high-school physics class they took a decade ago and forgot.

Most people also forget we are exposed to radiation every second of our lives. Our TVs spit out radiation as does everything around us to a very low but measurable background level.


----------



## aweir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12736218*
> Just as I've said to people since this has started. You'd need a Chernobyl like sequence of events for this to occur which quite simply isn't going to happen.


I'm sure they said "LOL..a _complete_ meltdown???...this will never happen...ROTFL" at Chernobyl, too.


----------



## xd_1771

What about Tokyo though
They are in fairly short range in case of complete meltdown
None of the 50 million people have been evacuated or otherwise have been warned


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12736281*
> I'm sure they said "LOL..a _complete_ meltdown...this will never happen...ROTFL" at Chernobyl, too.


They didn't have time to. Chernobyl went went out of control and exploded in ~30 seconds. The people running Chernobyl at the time also were electrical engineers (not nuclear engineers), who had no idea what a meltdown was.


----------



## aweir

We are experiencing more technical difficulties.Images are not being loaded /are being removed.

but can we discuss this China syndrome everyone is laughing at?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Syndrome


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12736287*
> What about Tokyo though
> They are in fairly short range in case of complete meltdown
> None of the 50 million people have been evacuated or otherwise have been warned


You're presuming that a meltdown results comes with a big boom. A melt down simply refers to the fuel load becoming molten.


----------



## solidsteel144

Time to bring out the Geiger counter.








I do want to buy one, though.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12736281*
> I'm sure they said "LOL..a _complete_ meltdown???...this will never happen...ROTFL" at Chernobyl, too.


Chernobyl had no containment vessel, was using graphite regulators that caught on fire, had safety features purposefully disabled or ignored, and lots of other terribly bad ideas that precipitated that event.

So yeah I can comfortably say that Japan's ***ushima reactors are not, will not or could ever be like Chernobyl:


----------



## Lampen

News Flash - A no-fly zone is set for 30km-radius over the ***ushima nuclear plant, the Kyodo news agency is quoting ministry officials as saying.


----------



## snoball

When you get a chance google "Ghost Town" its a song about Chernobyl. Great song I think it is by Huns & Dr. Beaker


----------



## arson2121

actually, there were plenty of warnings of a possible catastrophic meltdown prior to the "safety test" that caused the chernobyl reactor to explode.


----------



## aweir

Let's say worst case scenario....the fuel burns through the containment vessel and eats it's way through the ground. Won't happen?


----------



## xd_1771

Whatever, it's not going to go boom. But it is going to release a massive amount of radiation that could affect Tokyo anytime if the winds happen to be blowing south. Worst case scenario of course.


----------



## Lampen

On a side note: Amazing Chernobyl picture collection - http://www.boredpanda.com/chernobyl-20-years-after-the-accident/


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12736379*
> Let's say worst case scenario....the fuel burns through the containment vessel and eats it's way through the ground. Won't happen?


I doubt it. The liquified fuel/concrete/steel from Chernobyl-4 melted through the bottom shield of the vessel--but never ate through the bottom of the building....these reactors are much better designed. And I doubt the temps are as high with these as they were with Chernobyl-as much of that heat was caused by burning graphite.

Possible? sure. Likely? At this point I doubt it.


----------



## aweir

EDIT: the question was answered.


----------



## solidsteel144

I would very much like to visit Prypiat some day.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solidsteel144;12736487*
> I would very much like to visit Prypiat some day.


I'll be heading there this Summer







Can't wait to take my new DSLR with me. Probably going to spend 2 or 3 days in the zone. Should be an experience of a lifetime.


----------



## fg2chase

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12736424*
> On a side note: Amazing Chernobyl picture collection - http://www.boredpanda.com/chernobyl-20-years-after-the-accident/


OH yeah I saw that on "after humans" on history ahwhile back


----------



## molino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12736464*
> EDIT: the question was answered.


which reactor at the plant are you referring at
there's been alot of critical report status on the reactor #2 and #4 today that you might of missed
i recommend going threw few pages on this website, all the confirmed updates was posted today
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/


----------



## solidsteel144

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12736501*
> I'll be heading there this Summer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't wait to take my new DSLR with me. Probably going to spend 2 or 3 days in the zone. Should be an experience of a lifetime.


Lucky!
You'll be there before they build the "Arche".


----------



## Hawk777th

Fire at fourth reactor now!

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/14/japan.disaster/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solidsteel144;12736551*
> Lucky!
> You'll be there before they build the "Arche".


Gotta get there before all the depressing Soviet architecture is gone







.










And on that note I'm off to bed. Will listen for updates overnight and update if anything important happens and I wake up enough to post it. If not I'll do a full update once I wake up in about 7 hours.


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12736424*
> On a side note: Amazing Chernobyl picture collection - http://www.boredpanda.com/chernobyl-20-years-after-the-accident/


I read before that all the gas masks and teddy bears are all planted by the photographers.

why would there be masks in school when the plant exploded at like 1:30 am.


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solidsteel144;12736487*
> I would very much like to visit Prypiat some day.


Same here. Something about ghost towns/abandoned places intrigues me greatly. Hearing that they were going to open it to the public (as opposed to controlled tours) was a little disconcerting though. If people who visit the city aren't controlled then it'll be a matter of time before it's changed from what it is/was.


----------



## snoball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12736577*
> Gotta get there before all the depressing Soviet architecture is gone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And on that note I'm off to bed. Will listen for updates overnight and update if anything important happens and I wake up enough to post it. If not I'll do a full update once I wake up in about 7 hours.


What is that?


----------



## solidsteel144

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=chernobyl_2010&num=1

Very good article by the way.


----------



## aweir

No China Syndrome possible...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078966/faq#.2.1.5

however...what the hell happened at reactor #4 that it is on fire now?


----------



## TFL Replica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock;12736578*
> I read before that all the gas masks and teddy bears are all planted by the photographers.
> 
> why would there be masks in school when the plant exploded at like 1:30 am.


They're soviet schools, anything is possible. /sarcasm


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball;12736609*
> What is that?


One of the dry fuel storage facilities near Chernobyl.

@ solid, good looking article will read tomorrow for sure.


----------



## aweir

but this is not good...Asia's biggest utility said the containment chamber of the No 2 reactor may be damaged after a blast at 6:14 a.m. today and radiation leakage is possible.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/03/14/bloomberg1376-LI2M1M6JIJVP01-39T6BGJRDE6M2653OPBO5PKN9I.DTL#ixzz1GdvjuycG


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12736664*
> but this is not good...Asia's biggest utility said the containment chamber of the No 2 reactor may be damaged after a blast at 6:14 a.m. today and radiation leakage is possible.
> 
> Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/03/14/bloomberg1376-LI2M1M6JIJVP01-39T6BGJRDE6M2653OPBO5PKN9I.DTL#ixzz1GdvjuycG


Covered this hours ago. Was discussed for several pages. Thanks though.


----------



## aweir

sorry, I just got home an hour ago. Everything is still new to me.


----------



## SOCOM_HERO

i am not sure about the containment chamber in no. 2 being damaged to the extent that it would meltdown, it seems possible, but they are doing everything possible to prevent this. As for the fire on no. 4, that was extinguished as of the last check I had on the live stream an hour ago. the OP also states this fire was extinguished. The real concern is no.2 and keeping 1 and 3 cool enough for a long time period so to achieve cold/safe shutdown and then they can see if it did really partially meltdown and cleanup.

Off to bed now. been a heck of a night with all of these developments! Hope things really improve over the coming days!


----------



## ice_owl

They should DICE those reactors.


----------



## 53977

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12740843


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12736727*
> sorry, I just got home an hour ago. Everything is still new to me.


Check the OP. I'm constantly updating it with information that I find or that others in the thread track down. Should only take 5 minutes to read the Current Status of Nuclear Emergency section right at the top. It's got 95% of the important information.


----------



## Eagle1337

An editorial in the New York Times says that "the unfolding Japanese tragedy also should prompt Americans to closely study our own plans for coping with natural disasters and with potential nuclear plant accidents to make sure they are, indeed, strong enough. We've already seen how poor defences left New Orleans vulnerable to Hurricane Katrina and how industrial folly and hubris led to a devastating blowout and oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico".


----------



## aweir

I'm looking at Sendai, Japan on Google Earth and it looks so beautiful...like paradise, it's so gut wrenching to think that anything like that happened to such a tranquil place. All those beaches and harbors, farmland, hills, forest. It's just unbelievable.


----------



## amorph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurt1288;12736604*
> Same here. Something about ghost towns/abandoned places intrigues me greatly. Hearing that they were going to open it to the public (as opposed to controlled tours) was a little disconcerting though. If people who visit the city aren't controlled then it'll be a matter of time before it's changed from what it is/was.


It is open to the public.

They have guided tours going through the city. You can even look around inside the abandoned buildings and get a close up look at the sarcophagus.

EDIT: Nevermind. Didn't see the part where you mentioned "controlled tours".


----------



## Hyoketsu

I wonder how long it will be before they manage to put those reactors in a cold shutdown state... After all, further unlike chernobyl, these have been turned OFF ever since the quake and the only thing that's keeping them dangerous is decay heat. The internet is full of "expert" opinions: some say it's a week, others consider ~10 days to be more appropriate. And then there's those who're talking about a month, but I think that's bull. Any links to credible sources on this?

Some good news about a different NPP: Japan atomic power says quake-hit Tokai Daini nuclear plant has safely cooled down (Reuters)


----------



## Tennobanzai

I just had a chat on skype with my friend in Sendai!!! His house is fine, but no oil, hard to get water/food. Funny thing is internet started working today which I thought would take awhile. Kinda obvious but people in Sendai have been disconnected from the world since, he asked me a lot of questions like if I knew about the nuclear plant situation, the size of the earthquake, Sendai getting hit hard by the Tsunami.

This was great news for me to know he's well and actually his house was untouched other then the earthquake breaking stuff.


----------



## max it

It'd be funny to think that the human race would live through this (if it's that bad) just to find out a few years down the road that we all lost the ability to reproduce. That would be pretty ***.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tennobanzai;12737263*
> I just had a chat on skype with my friend in Sendai!!! His house is fine, but no oil, hard to get water/food. Funny thing is internet started working today which I thought would take awhile. Kinda obvious but people in Sendai have been disconnected from the world since, he asked me a lot of questions like if I knew about the nuclear plant situation, the size of the earthquake, Sendai getting hit hard by the Tsunami.
> 
> This was great news for me to know he's well and actually his house was untouched other then the earthquake breaking stuff.


Lady Luck must have shown him one hell of a smile for his house to remain intact







Best regards to your friend; let him know the whole world is rooting for Japan!


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amurph0;12737147*
> It is open to the public.
> 
> They have guided tours going through the city. You can even look around inside the abandoned buildings and get a close up look at the sarcophagus.
> 
> EDIT: Nevermind. Didn't see the part where you mentioned "controlled tours".


To be fair, I went and looked up more about this. I was under the impression that it was open for tourism for a while now, but everything that I've been reading says that the 30km exclusion zone has been closed (at least to "official" tours). Now the government is opening it up with "sanctioned" tour routes, etc. Basically allowing official tours.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurt1288;12737375*
> To be fair, I went and looked up more about this. I was under the impression that it was open for tourism for a while now, but everything that I've been reading says that the 30km exclusion zone has been closed (at least to "official" tours). Now the government is opening it up with "sanctioned" tour routes, etc. Basically allowing official tours.


I wonder what you mean by "now".
Here's a thread with pics from a guy who went on a guided tour in 08' (56K warning)


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12737432*
> I wonder what you mean by "now".
> Here's a thread with pics from a guy who went on a guided tour in 08' (56K warning)


Ya, I agree that it's weird/confusing. I'm just saying what I've read so far in my search as to what exactly I meant before. A few sites that I've read have said that the tours prior to now were technically illegal. The ones now are sanctioned/allowed/official/etc. (not sure exactly on what would be the right word) by the Ukrainian Ministry of Emergency Situations.

Also, not saying you're wrong or trying to argue. Just saying what I've been reading.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurt1288;12737470*
> Ya, I agree that it's weird/confusing. I'm just saying what I've read so far in my search as to what exactly I meant before. A few sites that I've read have said that the tours prior to now were technically illegal. The ones now are sanctioned/allowed/official/etc. (not sure exactly on what would be the right word) by the Ukrainian Ministry of Emergency Situations.


Huuuuh, is that so... Never heard anything of such tours being illegal. You've piqued my curiosity, care to link?

Anyway, once I have the funds for it, I also intend to go on a chernobyl tour. Should be pretty darn awesome. I guess I should hurry, though


----------



## Ocnewb

Guys honestly this thread is for news about Japan not about your tours and stuffs. Please don't thread-crap! I was looking for some updates and the last 2 pages all about u guys which i don't care.


----------



## Toransu

I'm hearing firetruck horns and police car sirens blasting here in Makati, Philippines. I hope it's not related....


----------



## Killam0n

There has now been a 4th explosion!


----------



## kurt1288

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12737484*
> Huuuuh, is that so... Never heard anything of such tours being illegal. You've piqued my curiosity, care to link?
> 
> Anyway, once I have the funds for it, I also intend to go on a chernobyl tour. Should be pretty darn awesome. I guess I should hurry, though


Here's one source (there's a lot more but they all say the same general things):
http://www.cnntraveller.com/2010/12/14/chernobyl-tours-to-start-in-2011/

I too would really love to visit Chernobyl. I just need to get over there. Was looking at the wiki page and supposedly the place is supposed to be "cleared" by 2036 (whatever that means). The Ukraine even passed a law that is supposed to direct towards this goal (LINK). That's just the actual plant though. Not Prypiat.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ocnewb;12737509*
> Guys honestly this thread is for news about Japan not about your tours and stuffs. Please don't thread-crap!


Indeed, sorry for going offtopic








Still, as there are no news and the only speculation we could provide would be of very questionable accuracy and relevance, why not drop the gloom, at least for now?

EDIT:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killam0n;12737517*
> There has now been a 4th explosion!


Right now? Source? Neither Reuters nor Kyodo say anything of the sort.


----------



## amorph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12737536*
> Right now? Source? Neither Reuters nor Kyodo say anything of the sort.


0636: The fire at reactor 4 may have been caused by a *hydrogen explosion*, the IAEA says Japanese authorities have told it.

I don't know if they mean it was caused by a previous explosion in one of the other reactors or if there has in fact been a 4th explosion in Reactor 4 itself.

*SOURCE*


----------



## paulerxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killam0n;12737517*
> There has now been a 4th explosion!










link? which reactor?


----------



## Killam0n

Yea now I am not sure about the legitimacy of the info but I did find info on a couple of news sites about a fourth explosion (they might have meant the third) but afterward the radiation levels sky rocketed









http://www.euronews.net/2011/03/15/fears-raised-of-a-nuclear-meltdown-in-japan/


----------



## Killam0n

I have found a couple sites that are in fact saying the fire at reactor 4 was caused by spent fuel rods burning which is just as bad as containment failure for the main reactor (as far as radiation release is concerned)


----------



## Hyoketsu

Oh, that one. The guy made it look as if it had happened just now.
Sheesh...


----------



## pioneerisloud

Watching NHK right now live.

Radiation levels down from 400 msv, down to 11,000 usv. That's great news!


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12737591*
> Oh, that one. The guy made it look as if it had happened just now.
> Sheesh...


Yeah it got me too.


----------



## Killam0n

@Kanagawa_resident
nanoSievert (nSv) is one thousand millionth of a Sievert (1/1,000,000,000)
microSievert (µSv) is one millionth of a Sievert (1/1,000,000)
milliSievert (mSv) is one thousandth of a Sievert (1/1,000) and for those who need to convert things 1 Sv (Sievert) = 100 rem
* 1 mSv = 100 mrem = 0.1 rem
* 1 μSv = 0.1 mrem
* 1 rem = 0.01 Sv = 10 mSv
* 1 mrem = 0.00001 Sv = 0.01 mSv = 10 μSv


----------



## Ocnewb

Live feed from BBC:
Quote:


> 0738: More on the fire at a spent fuel pond at ***ushima: It is at the number 4 reactor and "radioactivity is being released directly into the atmosphere", AFP quotes the IAEA as saying.


----------



## Amdkillsintel

Gosh, I hope the total of 6 reactors don't all go haywire. Reactors 1-3 need to be kept under control. Hope that with the fire out at 4, that there isn't anymore issues.


----------



## Killam0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ocnewb;12737644*
> Live feed from BBC:
> 0738: More on the fire at a spent fuel pond at ***ushima: It is at the number 4 reactor and "radioactivity is being released directly into the atmosphere", AFP quotes the IAEA as saying.


**** that is BAD, depending on the number of spent fuel rods that are in that "pond" the fallout could actually pose a real problem. I have heard conflicting story's about the fire being put out - however you CAN put out the fire temporarily but if the spent rods are not cooled properly afterwords they will continue to burn.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Woah, Kyodo: BREAKING NEWS: Cooling of No. 5, No. 6 reactors appears not to be working properly: Edano (16:42)

CORRECTED: Water injection into ***ushima No. 1, No. 3 reactors stable: Edano (16:32)
BREAKING NEWS: Remains to be seen if water smoothly injected into No. 2 reactor: Edano (16:39)


----------



## Amdkillsintel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killam0n;12737659*
> **** that is BAD


Great, their best bet is to put a shell over all the reactors in my opinion, once the temps in the core have gone down. Just like they did in Chernobyl.


----------



## Ocnewb

Another feed from BBC:
Quote:


> 0742: Robert Fitzsimmons tweets: "My local village of Ten'ei in ***ushima have asked everyone to avoid going out in the rain. We're about 100km away from the nuclear reactor."


----------



## Amdkillsintel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12737670*
> Woah, Kyodo: BREAKING NEWS: Cooling of No. 5, No. 6 reactors appears not to be working properly: Edano (16:42)


Wow, but I thought they were doing maintenance on those plants and it was shut down? I guess the core is still hot though. Not good at all. Please no more explosions...


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ocnewb;12737644*
> Live feed from BBC:


That's old. The fire has been out for HOURS now, and the radiation levels have gone down VERY significantly. It went from MilliSV down to MicroSV.


----------



## kurt1288

I like to know where BBC (and possibly others) are getting these quotes from the IAEA. Because there is no mention of radiation being directly released into the atmosphere anywhere on their website (but, it also doesn't look like the IAEA's website is being updated that frequently).

Also, from Kyodo:
Quote:


> NEWS ADVISORY: Edano denies continued release of high radiation around No. 4 reactor (16:36)


----------



## Ocnewb

It shouldn't be old because it just appeared in the live feed, or the BBC is slow probably.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ocnewb;12737701*
> It shouldn't be old because it just appeared in the live feed, or the BBC is slow probably.


I just watched the most recent Live broadcast at NHK. They said that things were stabilizing, and the radiation levels have dropped significantly (down to 11,000 uSv if I recall correctly).


----------



## Killam0n

Reuters Live: IAEA says it has been informed by Japan that the fire at the nuclear reactor spent fuel pond has been put out.

however you CAN put out the fire temporarily but if the spent rods are not cooled properly afterwords they will continue to burn, so how much water and for how long can they pump it?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Title updated; I'll leave Lampen to update data when he's back on.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killam0n;12737709*
> Reuters Live: IAEA says it has been informed by Japan that the fire at the nuclear reactor spent fuel pond has been put out.
> 
> however you CAN put out the fire temporarily but if the spent rods are not cooled properly afterwords they will continue to burn, so how much water and for how long can they pump it?


The fires were supposedly on the 4th floor of the building, and were caused by debris falling from the #1 and 3 explosions. Just what I heard on the NHK stream.


----------



## Killam0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;12737717*
> The fires were supposedly on the 4th floor of the building, and were caused by debris falling from the #1 and 3 explosions. Just what I heard on the NHK stream.


For japans sake I hope that is true.


----------



## Killam0n

Reuters:
- "Japan tells U.N. nuclear watchdog a spent fuel storage pond was on fire at the ***ushima power plant and radioactivity was being released "directly" into the atmosphere, the Vienna-based agency said.

Dose rates of up to 400 millisievert per hour have been reported. Exposure to Exposure to over 100 millisieverts a year is a level which can lead to cancer, according to the World Nuclear Association."

????


----------



## pioneerisloud

*UPDATE:*
The current level is very low, and will not affect human health at all.

As of the live stream right now.


----------



## Hyoketsu

BREAKING NEWS: ***ushima's spent nuke fuel pool may be boiling, reducing water (17:29)

Uh oh.

And concerning the NHK feed... I don't know, seems a tad fishy to me. Seriously, a broadcaster getting info before news agencies such as Kyodo and Reuters, not to mention the fact, that those two haven't reported any such information at all? Where's NHK getting the info from?


----------



## Onions

great work on the main post. very informative. its a shame this happened and i hope everything can get sealed up adn back to normal soon.


----------



## IzorkX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Onions;12738047*
> great work on the main post. very informative. its a shame this happened and i hope everything can get sealed up adn back to normal soon.


Unfortunately I think we're over that state..

This is gonna go wrong, I'm sure.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IzorkX;12738073*
> Unfortunately I think we're over that state..
> 
> This is gonna go wrong, I'm sure.


Pardon me asking, but who are you to be so sure? Any credentials? Any expert opinions?
Even though this is unlikely to be resolved in a flash, with every passing hour the potential effects of the worst case scenario are lessened as the reactors cool down.
Nothing personal, but please keep your doomsday prophecies to yourself if you can't back it up. There's enough panic floating around as is.

EDIT: Current status of the reactors


----------



## Killam0n

I really dont know what to believe... after reading this I think Japan is trying to down play what is really going on.

@Maria D: Regarding the danger of spent fuel ponds, this gives an idea: blogs.forbes.com -
"The pool cooling water must be continuously circulated. Without circulation, the still thermally hot irradiated nuclear fuel in the storage pools will begin to boil off the cooling water. Within a day or two, the pool's water could completely boil away. Without cooling water, the irradiated nuclear fuel could spontaneously combust in an exothermic reaction. Since the storage pools are not located within containment, a catastrophic radioactivity release to the environment could occur. Up to 100 percent of the volatile radioactive Cesium-137 content of the pools could go up in flames and smoke, to blow downwind over large distances. Given the large quantity of irradiated nuclear fuel in the pool, the radioactivity release could be worse than the Chernobyl nuclear reactor catastrophe of 25 years ago."


----------



## Killam0n

Report from Kyodo on Prime Minister Naoto Kan's anger at TEPCO:

Japan's prime minister was furious with the power firm at the centre of the nuclear crisis for taking so long to inform his office about a blast at a stricken reactor plant, demanding "What the hell is going on?".

"The TV reported an explosion. But nothing was said to the the premier's office for about an hour," a Kyodo reporter quoted Kan telling power company executives.

Kyodo also reports that Naoto Kan ordered TEPCO not to pull employees out of the ***ushima plant.


----------



## IzorkX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12738265*
> Pardon me asking, but who are you to be so sure? Any credentials? Any expert opinions?
> Even though this is unlikely to be resolved in a flash, with every passing hour the potential effects of the worst case scenario are lessened as the reactors cool down.
> Nothing personal, but please keep your doomsday prophecies to yourself if you can't back it up. There's enough panic floating around as is.
> 
> EDIT: Current status of the reactors


I don't have a quote, but experts in my country are saying it's most likely gonna go wrong, and when it does, it's gonna go wrong. They are also saying that japan is probaly holding back information about how bad it is, judging on the pictures and the press releases.


----------



## Hyoketsu

The reactor status link has been updated; apparently all four ***ushima-Daini reactors have reached a cold shutdown state.


----------



## Shredicus

Lol at all the fearmongering derps on the last couple pages.

"itz gunna esplode b/c experts sed its gonan esplode"


----------



## Boyboyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12738644*
> The reactor status link has been updated; apparently all four ***ushima-Daini reactors have reached a cold shutdown state.


This is great news. Not doubting you, but do you have a source?


----------



## Killam0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12738644*
> The reactor status link has been updated; apparently all four ***ushima-Daini reactors have reached a cold shutdown state.


According to who? japan? get some US regulators in there for conformation and make sure that navy ship drops off some REAL backup generators and pumps and then I can feel like this is under control.


----------



## killa_concept

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12738644*
> The reactor status link has been updated; apparently all four ***ushima-Daini reactors have reached a cold shutdown state.


Oh thank god... I had a good friend who went over there for spring break (great timing). Luckily, she was nowhere near the coast when the earthquake struck but with all this fear concerning the nuclear reactors, her parents finally convinced her to fly back early within the next couple of days.


----------



## Hyoketsu

The link is in the previous page. The source is the kyodo news agency.


----------



## Killam0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killa_concept;12738678*
> Oh thank god... I had a good friend who went over there for spring break (great timing). Luckily, she was nowhere near the coast when the earthquake struck but with all this fear concerning the nuclear reactors, her parents finally convinced her to fly back early within the next couple of days.


If they really care they would also next day air mail her one of these:
http://www.gammascout.com/order.html








or








10 Year battery life too.


----------



## yashau

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12738683*
> The link is in the previous page. The source is the kyodo news agency.


That link only mentions plant #2 has reached cold shutdown state.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yashau;12738707*
> That link only mentions plant #2 has reached cold shutdown state.


Exactly what I was saying. ***ushima Daiichi - 6 reactors. Still being cooled.
***ushima Daini - 4 reactors, cold shutdown.


----------



## robchaos

And that's daini, daiichi is the one in trouble


----------



## Killam0n

Reuters Live Feed:
Official ***ushima Radiation levels at 10:22am:
Reactor 2: 30 milli sieverts
Reactor 3: 400 milli sieverts
Reactor 4: 100 milli sieverts

Officials have confirmed that these levels will cause immediate harm to humans, not just over a long period of time.


----------



## IzorkX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *robchaos;12738735*
> And that's daini, daiichi is the one in trouble


exactly.


----------



## jjsoviet

I dunno if this is new, but...

Al Jazeera - Third Nuke Explosion

EDIT:

Dailymail - Third Reactor Explosion, Radiation Leakage

Feeds, feeds everywhere reporting this third ***ushima Daiichi reactor explosion. Radiation levels are expected to rise, these reports say.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Nevertheless, that's one less thing to worry about, especially considering there were some cooling malfunctions in the second plant as well.


----------



## SpuddGunn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jjsoviet;12738760*
> I dunno if this is new, but...
> 
> Al Jazeera - Third Nuke Explosion
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Dailymail - Third Reactor Explosion, Radiation Leakage
> 
> Feeds, feeds everywhere reporting this third ***ushima Daiichi reactor explosion. Radiation levels are expected to rise, these reports say.


That was last night


----------



## jjsoviet

Possibility of further nuclear leaks are increasing, fire in Reactor #4. Level increased to 6 out of 7.

BBC Breaking
NY Times


----------



## Boyboyd

I can't believe Afghanistan gave $50,000 in aid. I didn't even know that Afghanistan had a foreign aid policy.


----------



## jjsoviet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpuddGunn;12738798*
> That was last night


Sorry brah.


----------



## Killam0n

What I cant understand is why they didn't build the reactors underground then use the whole ocean as a gravity pool to flood the reactors in case of melt down failure worst case scenario conditions?

They had access to the biggest gravity pool backup coolant system and totally decided not to use it.. they could have built steps into it to prevent back flow out in to the ocean too..


----------



## Waffleboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killam0n;12738843*
> What I cant understand is why they didn't build the reactors underground then use the whole ocean as a gravity pool to flood the reactors in case of melt down failure worst case scenario conditions?


Probably expense.


----------



## Fusion Racing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killam0n;12738843*
> What I cant understand is why they didn't build the reactors underground then use the whole ocean as a gravity pool to flood the reactors in case of melt down failure worst case scenario conditions?


I'd have thought that would be pretty costly to build them underground, especially back in the 70's. Easy to say why didn't they do this with hindsight.

Also I'd have thought having the whole reactor underground when its an earthquake wouldn't do it much good.


----------



## Kluit

Not sure if this link was posted yet, but the link shows a live geiger counter in Chiba 50km (~30miles) east of Tokyo.

Geiger Counter Chiba


----------



## Killam0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fusion Racing;12738853*
> I'd have thought that would be pretty costly to build them underground, especially back in the 70's. Easy to say why didn't they do this with hindsight. Also I'd have thought having the whole reactor underground when its an earthquake wouldn't do it much good.


details.. details.. personally I don't think any country should be sparing expenses while building nuclear reactors.

the floating nuclear reactors/ power plants on ships ideas are starting to make more since now..


----------



## Killam0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kluit;12738872*
> Not sure if this link was posted yet, but the link shows a live geiger counter in Chiba 50km (~30miles) east of Tokyo.
> 
> Geiger Counter Chiba


Range I see 0.16 - 0.23 measurement: μSv/h (micro sievert/hour)
(I read that up to 0.27 is fine - 1.8 is max ok)


----------



## Boyboyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killam0n;12738915*
> Range I see 0.16 - 0.23


It says "stream offline" for me.


----------



## Bull

I sort of had a feeling yesterday this was going to happen, now not to take a poll but would you prefer off shore or on shore winds....either way we are looking at red sky's at night...if the jet stream changes like it normally does this time of year then it's more probable any radioactivity will stay north up in Canada. Before I get flamed...no I am not a weatherman, and it's a sad situation no matter which way the weather systems move clouds of radiation.

JMO


----------



## jjsoviet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boyboyd;12738937*
> It says "stream offline" for me.


Try reloading. Works here on my end. Currently hovering between 0.12-0.15 in the counter.


----------



## Killam0n

A roundup of that Kyodo news on the no.4 reactor:

Radiation levels at the reactor have become too high for normal work in the control room. Workers cannot stay in the room long and so are going in and out alongside monitoring from a different room.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killam0n;12738882*
> details.. details.. personally I don't think any country should be sparing expenses while building nuclear reactors.
> 
> the floating nuclear reactors/ power plants on ships ideas are starting to make more since now..


Everything comes down to reasonable precautions and economics.

Underground or floating reactors wouldn't be immune to problems, and have disadvantages in other respects.

Still, in an area prone to large tremors, one would expect some more redundancy.


----------



## Wildcard36qs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killam0n;12738882*
> details.. details.. personally I don't think any country should be sparing expenses while building nuclear reactors.
> 
> the floating nuclear reactors/ power plants on ships ideas are starting to make more since now..


You do realize that there was a tsunami right?


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wildcard36qs;12739109*
> You do realize that there was a tsunami right?


Yeah, unless a floating reactor was kept well off the coast, it could be washed ashore and the exact same problems could result.


----------



## Maou

BREAKING NEWS: TEPCO unable to pour water into No. 4 reactor's storage pool for spent fuel -Kyodo News.


----------



## Killam0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless;12739177*
> Yeah, unless a floating reactor was kept well off the coast, it could be washed ashore and the exact same problems could result.


They could be moved away from the threat, they were proposed to be on movable platforms. - for the size they would be I dont even think the tsunami would have hurt it.


----------



## Killam0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maou;12739291*
> BREAKING NEWS: TEPCO unable to pour water into No. 4 reactor's storage pool for spent fuel -Kyodo News.


This situation has been upgraded to level 6 (out of 7)

Japan: two breaches of 8 meters wide on the No. 4 reactor in ***ushima (translated)
http://fr.news.yahoo.com/68/20110315/tsc-japon-deux-brches-de-8-mtres-de-larg-04aaa9b.html


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killam0n;12739467*
> This situation has been upgraded to level 6 (out of 7)
> 
> Japan: two breaches of 8 meters wide on the No. 4 reactor in ***ushima (translated)
> http://fr.news.yahoo.com/68/20110315/tsc-japon-deux-brches-de-8-mtres-de-larg-04aaa9b.html


oh god no, this is really bad. 8 meteres wide!?


----------



## Keipi

According to a dutch news site, another earthquake just hit south of Tokyo.
The power of the earthquake was 6.2

http://www.nu.nl/buitenland/2468809/krachtige-aardbeving-nabij-tokio.html

Translated version;
http://translate.google.nl/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nu.nl%2Fbuitenland%2F2468809%2Fkrachtige-aardbeving-nabij-tokio.html

The translation will be horrible because of dutch grammar.


----------



## XAslanX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killam0n;12739467*
> This situation has been upgraded to level 6 (out of 7)
> 
> Japan: two breaches of 8 meters wide on the No. 4 reactor in ***ushima (translated)
> http://fr.news.yahoo.com/68/20110315/tsc-japon-deux-brches-de-8-mtres-de-larg-04aaa9b.html


Translated Article


----------



## farmdve

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Keipi;12739522*
> According to a dutch news site, another earthquake just hit south of Tokyo.
> The power of the earthquake was 6.2
> 
> http://www.nu.nl/buitenland/2468809/krachtige-aardbeving-nabij-tokio.html
> 
> Translated version;
> http://translate.google.nl/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nu.nl%2Fbuitenland%2F2468809%2Fkrachtige-aardbeving-nabij-tokio.html
> 
> The translation will be horrible because of dutch grammar.


Actually, the translation looked slightly more accurate than what Google used to spew.


----------



## Fusion Racing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Killam0n;12739367*
> They could be moved away from the threat, they were proposed to be on movable platforms. - for the size they would be I dont even think the tsunami would have hurt it.


That's providing you have enough warning to actually move it far enough. Usually you don't, trying to outrun a tsunami is rather difficult.


----------



## Lampen

God that took a while to sort through... Also those maps on 162 are complete fakes. I've reported them so that they're deleted along with several other posts that were largely trolling or posting bad info.

The INES rating of the situation has been upgraded to six out of seven that I've seen anywhere including the IAEA or the NIAS. It's still currently at 4 out of 7.

The drops in radiation levels have been confirmed by both the NIAS and the IAEA.

I'll be doing a full update on the OP over the next 20 minutes.


----------



## jjsoviet

Hooray, you're back!


----------



## jjjc_93

So, radiation levels have dropped - however the emergency is upgraded to a 6 anyway?

I'm assuming there's more of a chance for disaster here now...


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzin92;12739511*
> oh god no, this is really bad. 8 meteres wide!?


The article says 'the outer wall'. 1 and 3 have been going without one for several days now, this wall isn't structurally important.
I'm assuming you... err... assumed that it was the vessel containment building. We already discussed the monstrous strength of those. For 2x8m holes to appear, someone would have had to divide by zero. Twice.


----------



## solidsteel144

Is it officially a level 6 incident?
If anything it's level 5 now.


----------



## Lampen

France's nuclear agency is the only one that has upgraded its INES rating of the Japanese Nuclear Emergency. Sorry but the French don't know what the hell they're talking about. Here's an example of a Level 6 incident:

Kyshtym disaster at Mayak, Soviet Union, 29 September 1957. A failed cooling system at a military nuclear waste reprocessing facility caused a steam explosion that released 70-80 tons of highly radioactive material into the environment.

We're not even close at this point.

@Killam0n Sorry but unless you are posting stuff from Godlikeproductions.com for a laugh I wouldn't trust that place even if the was coming to and end right in front of me. When you've got Conspiracy Theorists, UFO's and especially Lunatic Fringe in the title it negates any factual basis you might have.

Currently working on the OP, will take a while to update.

News Flash - Helicopter lift operations will shortly be starting at the ***ushima Nuclear Power Plant. Awaiting confirmation on what reactors are targeted in this operation.


----------



## Killam0n

okok trying to stay more on topic, well I have not seen that live geiger counter go higher than accepted normal levels so that is one thing that is good. and seriously lampen chill out I think everyone should do as much research into crack pot theory's as they want, I read up on them for kicks. Who knows maybe some hold more than water but you need to do that research for your self. - I even went back and added the official government HAARP site too.


----------



## Lampen

OP completely updated with all new and confirmed information.


----------



## Killam0n

Radiation Info
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/R/Radiation.html


----------



## Lampen

Tepco says it may start pouring water from a helicopter over ***ushima Daiichi's reactor four in the next few days, to cool the spent-fuel pool.


----------



## Wildcard36qs

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


Tepco says it may start pouring water from a helicopter over ***ushima Daiichi's reactor four in the next few days, to cool the spent-fuel pool.


Wasn't air traffic supposed to be halted?


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu*


The article says 'the outer wall'. 1 and 3 have been going without one for several days now, this wall isn't structurally important.
I'm assuming you... err... assumed that it was the vessel containment building. We already discussed the monstrous strength of those. For 2x8m holes to appear, someone would have had to divide by zero. Twice.


Ahh i must of mistaken the two containments, but although however strong it is... Everything has a breaking point at some point, just with the pressure that can build up, tears that big can happen.


----------



## farmdve

Only aircrafts that will help are allowed to go there.


----------



## Lampen

Michel Jarraud, the secretary general of the UN's World Meteorological Organisation, tells the BBC that at the moment, the dominant wind is blowing any radioactive particles out over the Pacific Ocean. His organisation is monitoring the situation closely, he adds.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wildcard36qs*


Wasn't air traffic supposed to be halted?


That was for normal civilian aviation traffic, not government or emergency aircraft.


----------



## Wildcard36qs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12740290*
> That was for normal civilian aviation traffic, not government or emergency aircraft.


Yea I figured as much, wasn't thinking lol.


----------



## 8-Ball

Quick Answer for this Question:

The situation has gotten worse?

Why so?

Any improvements?


----------



## molino

morning


----------



## Hyoketsu

NEWS ADVISORY: Gov't orders injection of water into No. 4 reactor spent fuel pool at ***ushima pl - Kyodo (the message is cut off, not my fault, heh)
(same info from Reuters: "Japan government orders injections of water into Daiichi No. 4 reactor spent fuel pool: report")

Reactor status update: 
-- Reactor No. 5 - Under maintenance when quake struck, temperature slightly rising at spent fuel pool.

-- Reactor No. 6 - Under maintenance when quake struck, temperature slightly rising at spent fuel pool.

^ Kyodo as well.

TEPCO says the water level at ***ushima Daiichi no.2 reactor is recovering smoothly. - Reuters


----------



## willis888

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Buzzin92*


Ahh i must of mistaken the two containments, but although however strong it is... Everything has a breaking point at some point, just with the pressure that can build up, tears that big can happen.



I was worried about the same thing earlier. What if all the pressure valves failed closed? Would it go up like a giant pipe bomb with a ball of molten uranium at the center?

So I was thinking about it, picturing the layout of a reactor in my head. Six inch thick steel bell sitting on a 30 foot think concrete and graphite pad.

If pressure increases beyond design limits, you know what will pop first? The latch holding the pressure release valve closed (or some other penetration into the bell). The bell itself is not the weakest link, nor is the pad below it.

The valve will break, a jet of radioactive steam will be released, the uranium pellets will melt and the zirconium alloy cladding will catch fire, and radioactive smoke will escape from the broken valve. The graphite pad will catch the molten core, and some years later it will solidify. The busted valve will be filled with sand to prevent the escape of radioactive smoke, and the area around the containment bell will be flooded with cold water to reduce pressure inside the bell.


----------



## Tunapiano

So we are up to a Level 6, any new info? nobody has posted in 40 minutes.


----------



## robchaos

The lack of new info is probably due to it being late night in japan. All the news will probably come flowing around 5 or 6 et. I am hoping for the best.


----------



## Floy

Correct, it is 0200 in Japan right now.


----------



## Buzzin92

well its 1700 in uk now, gotta wait till midnight to 4 in the morning before i can see any new info on the thread. not good concidering i have college lol.


----------



## Citra

Just found out on CNN that the Nuclear company faked many of it's safety tests and lied about what happened many times. Like a few years ago when there was a fire. They said it only burned for a little while and a gallon of radioactive water escaped. From further investigation. People discovered that the fire burned for 2 hours and about a hundred gallons of radioactive water leaked into the sea.


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Citra*


Just found out on CNN that the Nuclear company faked many of it's safety tests and lied about what happened many times. Like a few years ago when there was a fire. They said it only burned for a little while and a gallon of radioactive water escaped. From further investigation. People discovered that the fire burned for 2 hours and about a hundred gallons of radioactive water leaked into the sea.


It seems odd that CNN is now just reporting on this. The other sites mentioned this on the first day..


----------



## Citra

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Eagle1337*


It seems odd that CNN is now just reporting on this. The other sites mentioned this on the first day..


I wasn't following the whole thing. Just thought it was something intresting about the Nuclear power plant.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tunapiano*


So we are up to a Level 6, any new info? nobody has posted in 40 minutes.


The IAEA and the NSIA have not upgraded the INES rating for the Japanese Nuclear Crisis yet. The only agency that has is the French Nuclear Agency and nobody other than the Japanese or the IAEA have enough information to make a qualified assessment of rating is warranted.

Also I'm sorry but we are nowhere near a Level 6 rating yet either.

Now this is a level 6 disaster:

Kyshtym disaster at Mayak, Soviet Union, 29 September 1957. A failed cooling system at a military nuclear waste reprocessing facility caused a steam explosion that released 70-80 tons of highly radioactive material into the environment. Impact on local population is not fully known.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Citra*


Just found out on CNN that the Nuclear company faked many of it's safety tests and lied about what happened many times. Like a few years ago when there was a fire. They said it only burned for a little while and a gallon of radioactive water escaped. From further investigation. People discovered that the fire burned for 2 hours and about a hundred gallons of radioactive water leaked into the sea.


Yeah TEPCO has a bad track record for proper reporting and its safety record is less than exemplary. This is one of the reasons the Japanese people are becoming increasingly nervous about the situation. They believe that the are not getting the entire story.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Eagle1337*


It seems odd that CNN is now just reporting on this. The other sites mentioned this on the first day..


It took them a full 3 days to first cover the earthquake/tsunami all day on day one rebroadcasting the same footage over and over...then over the weekend they spent re-covering the live-updates from twitter on the reactor plants....now with a shortage of info to spend 24hrs covering they are forced to actually do some journalism.

It ain't easy to have a 24hr news network, when you only cover 3-4 topics max per day.


----------



## Lampen

News Flash - Authorities have confirmed that Pressure Vessel of Reactor #2 at the ***ushima Diaichi Nuclear Facility was damaged during the recent explosion. A breach of reactor vessel however has not yet been confirmed.

News Flash - Plant managers may remove part of two reactor buildings to prevent more explosions from hydrogen buildup and venting.


----------



## nukefission

Grr 
my geography teacher ranted at me for asking if japanese could go live in russia 
aparantly 2/3 of russians hate japenese
and thers some lebenese/turkish mafia thats going to take over the world


----------



## Hawk777th

Spent nuke fuel pool may be boiling, further radiation leak feared
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78267.html


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hawk777th*


Spent nuke fuel pool may be boiling, further radiation leak feared
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78267.html


Sorry, but this was posted ages ago & updated several times, the latest update being the planned heli operations. Don't incite unnecessary fears by repeating negative old stuff


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Cleaned. *I will NOT tolerate baseless conspiracy theories, especially in a thread like this.*


----------



## AdvanSuper

Thank you!


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Cleaned. *I will NOT tolerate baseless conspiracy theories, especially in a thread like this.*










Yay CC returns!







Thank you for taking the time to clean the thread up! Now back to business!


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Cleaned. *I will NOT tolerate baseless conspiracy theories, especially in a thread like this.*


Thanks for the cleanup!


----------



## Eagle1337

Thanks chimp!!!

Sent from my GT-I9000M using Tapatalk


----------



## EvanPitts

This disaster is nuts, but they have, so far, managed to contain the reactor core. This is not an easy thing when everything is motorized, and there is no electricity to be had. It's kind of ironic that it was the diesel generators that failed, and not the reactors, that only failed once the generators failed.


----------



## robchaos

I know this was mentioned for a few posts, but I don't think this has been posted, they have pulled out all but a handful of workers. The brave few who stayed to try and keep the water flowing are most likely facing death








http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/15/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29


----------



## Hawk777th

http://jalopnik.com/#!5782082/the-strange-link-between-samurai-swords-and-japans-nuclear-reactors

Sorry if this is too off topic but really interesting read!


----------



## Ryanb213

what are you guys obcessed?


----------



## Pendulum

I'm laughing at the comments.
"THE END IS HERE, REPENT NOW"
^ The above is from a guy who goes by the name of 2012 [insert facepalm .jpg here]


----------



## Telimektar

Quote:


> ***ushima nuke plant situation 'worsened considerably': think tank


http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78374.html


----------



## Hyoketsu

While the situation surely has worsened, it is still far too early to accurately predict and determine the consequences of events that happened so far and of scenarios that may yet unfold. Also, right now, there are more important things to be done than thinking about such crap as a rating on some scale.
Also, "think tank"? Am I the only one who thinks there are lots of far more credible opinions to be found elsewhere?


----------



## Telimektar

It's the Institute for Science and International Security, no idea who they are though, but so far oly the French Nuclear Agency rated the accident at 6, now they are too.


----------



## CStylen

U.S. Surgeon General Encourages West Coast Residents to Buy Iodide Tablets...http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Surgeon-General-Buying-Iodine-Appropriate-118031559.html

I'm not, but wow.


----------



## weidass

Don't know if it's been mentioned, but reactor number 2's control/fuel rods were exposed in the explosion. approximately 2.4m in length. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvBYsHTKePc&feature=related[/ame]


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *weidass;12744923*
> Don't know if it's been mentioned, but reactor number 2's control/fuel rods were exposed in the explosion. approximately 2.4m in length. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvBYsHTKePc&feature=related


When was this? a fourth explosion!?


----------



## omega17

BBC have just reported a new fire in Reactor 4.


----------



## Buzzin92

*sigh* unfortunatly this is where mine and lampen's avatars come into play again







last i heard was Reactor 2 was stabalised in a cold shutdown, along with nuclear plant #2. unless i was reading false information.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CStylen;12744821*
> U.S. Surgeon General Encourages West Coast Residents to Buy Iodide Tablets...http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Surgeon-General-Buying-Iodine-Appropriate-118031559.html
> 
> I'm not, but wow.


Cripes. What was she smoking before wagging her mouth, I mean really?


----------



## 4LC4PON3

I honestly feel that Japan isnt going to get full control over this. It was just reported a another fire in reactor #4


----------



## omega17

Apparently Plant 2 (dai-ni) has indeed all 4 reactors in cold shutdown, which is good.

The fire is in Reactor 4 at Dai-ichi, where a fire started earlier caused by debris from the hydrogen explosion at Reactor 3. Fires are very bad, as radioactive particulates are easily distributed in smoke


----------



## Toonshorty

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12754883

Fire at Reactor 4.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *weidass;12744923*
> Don't know if it's been mentioned, but reactor number 2's control/fuel rods were exposed in the explosion. approximately 2.4m in length. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvBYsHTKePc&feature=related


Any more info on this? I'm at work, so can't watch a youtube vid. Can someone summarize what happened with this with a little more detail?


----------



## Telimektar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;12745375*
> Any more info on this? I'm at work, so can't watch a youtube vid. Can someone summarize what happened with this with a little more detail?


The rods weren't exposed to the atmosphere, they mean half of the rods weren 't submerged by water so they can't be sure they didn't melt.


----------



## molino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;12745375*
> Any more info on this? I'm at work, so can't watch a youtube vid. Can someone summarize what happened with this with a little more detail?


i believe the OP is updated
or you can see all the lastest headlines quoted directly from TEPCO since friday here:
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/

btw guys reuters says: Safety is a priority for our staff and the photographers have been moved back from the ***ushima area after #4 reactor fire so there might a be a good delay between updates


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Telimektar;12745405*
> The rods weren't exposed to the atmosphere, they mean half of the rods weren 't submerged by water so they can't be sure they didn't melt.


Oh, lol, already knew that. I thought he meant the containment was breached.


----------



## XAslanX

Interesting read:
Quote:


> Nuke engineer: Fuel rod fire at ***ushima reactor "would be like Chernobyl on steroids"


Quote:


> Two days later, the nearby building containing the plutonium-uranium (MOX) fueled ***suhima Daichii reactor unit 3 exploded. So why bother about the rubble of reactor No 1? The WaPo quotes a nuclear engineer who knows the answer:
> 
> " Although Tokyo Electric said it also continued to deal with cooling system failures and high pressures at half a dozen of its 10 reactors in the two ***ushima complexes, fears mounted about the threat posed by the pools of water where years of spent fuel rods are stored.
> 
> At the 40-year-old ***ushima Daiichi unit 1, where an explosion Saturday destroyed a building housing the reactor, the spent fuel pool, in accordance with General Electric's design, is placed above the reactor. Tokyo Electric said it was trying to figure out how to maintain water levels in the pools, indicating that the normal safety systems there had failed, too. Failure to keep adequate water levels in a pool would lead to a catastrophic fire, said nuclear experts, some of whom think that unit 1's pool may now be outside.
> 
> "That would be like Chernobyl on steroids," said Arnie Gundersen, a nuclear engineer at Fairewinds Associates and a member of the public oversight panel for the Vermont Yankee nuclear plant, which is identical to the ***ushima Daiichi unit 1.
> 
> People familiar with the plant said there are seven spent fuel pools at ***ushima Daiichi, many of them densely packed.
> 
> Gundersen said the unit 1 pool could have as much as 20 years of spent fuel rods, which are still radioactive. "
> 
> We'd be lucky if we only had to worry about the spent fuel rods from a single holding pool. We're not that lucky. The ***ushima Daiichi plant has seven pools for spent fuel rods. Six of these are (or were) located at the top of six reactor buildings. One "common pool" is at ground level in a separate building. Each "reactor top" pool holds 3450 fuel rod assemblies. The common pool holds 6291 fuel rod assemblies. [The common pool has windows on one wall which were almost certainly destroyed by the tsunami.] Each assembly holds sixty-three fuel rods. This means the ***ushima Daiichi plant may contain over 600,000 spent fuel rods.


http://my.firedoglake.com/kirkmurphy/2011/03/14/nuke-engineer-fuel-rod-fire-at-stricken-reactor-would-be-like-chernobyl-on-steroids/


----------



## omega17

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XAslanX;12745493*
> Interesting read:


^ This is why a fire at Reactor 4 might turn bad. Reactor 4 is housing spent fuel in a temporary tank whilst the main pool is being refurbed, as I understand it.


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XAslanX;12745493*
> Interesting read:
> 
> http://my.firedoglake.com/kirkmurphy/2011/03/14/nuke-engineer-fuel-rod-fire-at-stricken-reactor-would-be-like-chernobyl-on-steroids/


......... .......... Crap


----------



## jjsoviet

So fire in spent fuel rods = big problem? :O


----------



## paulerxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jjsoviet;12745599*
> So fire in spent fuel rods = big problem? :O


Nuke engineer: Fuel rod fire at ***ushima reactor "would be like Chernobyl on steroids" apparently so...


----------



## strap624

1. Get tanker truck full of liquid nitrogen
2. Pump liquid nitrogen into holding tank
3. ?? epic win?
4. japan saves the day?


----------



## Mr.Pie

just got a bbc news flash on my phone

fire happening at the ***ushima Reactor 4
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12754883
Quote:


> There has been a fresh fire at the quake-stricken ***ushima Daiichi nuclear plant in northern Japan.
> 
> The new blaze began at reactor four. The plant has already been hit by four explosions, triggering radiation leaks and sparking health concerns.
> 
> More than 3,000 have been confirmed dead and thousands are missing following Friday's 9.0-magnitude quake and tsunami in north-east Japan.
> 
> The disaster has damaged the nuclear plant's cooling functions.
> 
> Officials have warned people within 20-30km of the site to either leave the area or stay indoors.


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jjsoviet;12745599*
> So fire in spent fuel rods = big problem? :O


seems to be that way, as the rods are combusting, the smoke particals are carrying the radiation into the atmosphere... am i right?


----------



## robchaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omega17;12745560*
> ^ This is why a fire at Reactor 4 might turn bad. Reactor 4 is housing spent fuel in a temporary tank whilst the main pool is being refurbed, as I understand it.


http://www.livestation.com/channels/123-nhk-world-english
The area is inaccessible right now due to extremely high radiation levels. I didn't catch what the lady said the level was but they can not extinguish the fire at this time they are hoping it will go out naturally


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *strap624;12745657*
> 1. Get tanker truck full of liquid nitrogen
> 2. Pump liquid nitrogen into holding tank
> 3. ?? epic win?
> 4. japan saves the day?


Unfortunatly as that may seem a good idea, but the liquid nitrogen can weaken the containment vessel holding the fuel rods. which is bad. the reason why there using water/sea water is because they are pumping boron into the reactor aswell (a poison to stop the fusion process)


----------



## strap624

I'm starting to get a feeling that these guys are getting overwhelmed and don't have the resources to fix the problem.


----------



## Krymore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jjsoviet;12745599*
> So fire in spent fuel rods = big problem? :O


Huge problem actually. Its estimated that the ***ushima Daiichi plant may contain over 600,000 spent fuel rods.

The fuel rods must be kept submerged in water. Why? Outside of the water bath, the radioactivity in the used rods can cause them to become so hot they begin to catch fire. These fires can burn so hot the radioactive rod contents are carried into the atmosphere as vaporized material or as very small particles.

There saying it would be like Chernobyl on steroids. Chernobyl contamination settled upon people and nations thousands of miles from that reactor's location. How far would "Chernobyl on steroids" travel?

No need to worry tho, I am sure they will get the fire put out.... grabs lead suit and runs...


----------



## Flack88

What isnt clear is what is burning....If its the spent fuel its pretty disasterous!


----------



## Krymore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *strap624;12745684*
> I'm starting to get a feeling that these guys are getting overwhelmed and don't have the resources to fix the problem.


Yeah I dont think there are many workers left from what I hear. If GE designed it you would think they would have a team to help or spare parts, something for god sakes.


----------



## Mr.Pie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzin92;12745683*
> Unfortunatly as that may seem a good idea, but the liquid nitrogen can weaken the containment vessel holding the fuel rods. which is bad. the reason why there using water/sea water is because they are pumping boron into the reactor aswell (a poison to stop the *Fission* process)


you mean nuclear fission?


----------



## omega17

The fire was noticed by an employee in the control room of Reactor 4. It is thought to have been caused by water level dropping in the spent fuel pool, then a similar hydrogen explosion to the other explosions. According to NHK, they currently cannot put the fire out, due to increased radiation in the pool.

That being said, as long as this fire is contained within the concrete building, it shouldn't be a huge risk...

scratch that, NHK just confirmed there is a hole in the roof, into which they will attempt to help-drop water to extinguish the fire / cool the spent fuel.

Note that I'm just posting this as I hear it from NHK.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *robchaos;12745666*
> http://www.livestation.com/channels/123-nhk-world-english
> The area is inaccessible right now due to extremely high radiation levels. I didn't catch what the lady said the level was but they can not extinguish the fire at this time they are hoping it will go out naturally


Oh that's cool. So the radiation levels are too high for them to put out the fire, but the fire could potentially be releasing much more radiation every second?

Goodie. Time to order your iodine pills!


----------



## Flack88

I fail to see how it will just go out naturally, this has gone on so long now I think all the power company is trying to do is gain more time before the inevatable happens (whatever that may be).

The guys working round the clock must be physically and metally exhausted!


----------



## strap624

At some point someone is going to have to man up and manually fill these cooling tanks via firetruck hose.


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr.Pie;12745717*
> you mean nuclear fission?


yeah







i always get them mixed up, but i knew what i meant


----------



## robchaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzin92;12745683*
> Unfortunatly as that may seem a good idea, but the liquid nitrogen can weaken the containment vessel holding the fuel rods. which is bad. the reason why there using water/sea water is because they are pumping boron into the reactor aswell (a poison to stop the fusion process)


Also, even though liquid nitrogen might be extremely cold, It would boil off much much quicker and basically be ineffective. Water has the second highest specific heat capacity of any liquid, and a relatively high heat of vaporization, meaning it can hold more and longer before turning to gas and having to be vented then most other liquids that could be used.


----------



## Buzzin92

is it just me or does it seem that using helli's to bomb the plants with water is a last desperate attempt? what more could they do


----------



## Flack88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *strap624;12745756*
> At some point someone is going to have to man up and manually fill these cooling tanks via firetruck hose.


I think somebody would of if this were possible or was actually worth it.

All I can say is things are going from bad to worse even though the smartest people in nukeular power are working to resolve it.

I would like to know what is burning firstly, im guessing its the spent fuel as radiation levels are through the roof again.


----------



## Mr.Pie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *strap624;12745756*
> At some point someone is going to have to man up and manually fill these cooling tanks via firetruck hose.


I'd do it if it would make a difference......but then think of how hot those rods are and how fast the water would evaporate.....it probably wouldn't help as much
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzin92;12745758*
> yeah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i always get them mixed up, but i knew what i meant











.....your avatar seems fitting for this moment in time btw


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *robchaos;12745771*
> Also, even though liquid nitrogen might be extremely cold, It would boil off much much quicker and basically be ineffective. Water has the second highest specific heat capacity of any liquid, and a relatively high heat of vaporization, meaning it can hold more and longer before turning to gas and having to be vented then most other liquids that could be used.


that is correct, thanks for adding


----------



## Krymore

Question: How long dose it take for these dam rods to cool off? You would think they would be cool after 4 days.


----------



## CyberWolf575

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *strap624;12745756*
> At some point someone is going to have to man up and manually fill these cooling tanks via firetruck hose.


Yeah, like the Bionic Robots in Chernobyl.

Ugh, with all this going on, i can only imagine how much panic the people of Japan are in. I have a really good friend living in Tokyo, but i haven't heard from her in more then 24 hours now, i know that Tokyo is in no extreme danger as of right now, but I'm still worried. I hope Japan can pull through this.

Im from Ukraine, and been hearing about Chernobyl since i was a little kid from my parents and my grandparents, and it's scary as to the stories that are told. Hope nothing as bad as that will happen.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *strap624;12745756*
> At some point someone is going to have to man up and manually fill these cooling tanks via firetruck hose.


They've been doing that for four days...


----------



## XAslanX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;12745726*
> Goodie. Time to order your iodine pills!


While iodine pills block some types of radiation, it wont block plutonium and uranium. You would need a lead suit and respirator mask for that.


----------



## CyberWolf575

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krymore;12745794*
> Question: How long dose it take for these dam rods to cool off? You would think they would be cool after 4 days.


Weeks, sometimes months.


----------



## Mr.Pie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krymore;12745794*
> Question: How long dose it take for these dam rods to cool off? You would think they would be cool after 4 days.


those fuel rods are spent fuel just decaying
they continue to produce heat.......iirc

think of everythign thats happened

the whole nuclear facility has practically failed; theres a lot more on their hands than we could imagine


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krymore;12745794*
> Question: How long dose it take for these dam rods to cool off? You would think they would be cool after 4 days.


it would seem so, but even spent fuel rods are still producing heat and need cooling off.

Not to get into any more confusion, but is the half life the time the radioactive material stays... active? if so the the fuel that is used in these reactors have a half life of 700,000,000 years


----------



## Krymore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CyberWolf575;12745821*
> Weeks, sometimes months.


Wow thats crazy. Funny they just said they might use fire trucks to try and refill the reactors water level.


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krymore;12745832*
> Wow thats crazy. Funny they just said they might use fire trucks to try and refill the reactors water level.


That wouldnt be enough, as the water is pretty much being evapourated instantly


----------



## sLowEnd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krymore;12745794*
> Question: How long dose it take for these dam rods to cool off? You would think they would be cool after 4 days.


The rods produce heat because of nuclear decay.

The half-life (The amount of time it would take for half the substance to disappear) of Uranium-235 is 700 Million years.

Even if the rods were made before humans existed, they would still be producing heat today.


----------



## robchaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krymore;12745794*
> Question: How long dose it take for these dam rods to cool off? You would think they would be cool after 4 days.


Partial meltdown and improperly inserted control rods can allow nuclear reaction to continue producing heat. This has turned from a snowball to an avalanche.
well really I shouldn't say snowball, everything was pretty serious to being with, but it has been a domino effect.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XAslanX;12745810*
> While iodine pills block some types of radiation, it wont block plutonium and uranium. You would need a lead suit and respirator mask for that.


It'll block thyroid cancer, which is the biggest long-term effect of light radiation exposure. If the 750 rads that one prediction map I saw actually come through to the US, we're all dead anyway. Even just 100 rads is 100% fatal.


----------



## strap624

They need to figure out a way to pump water into the holding tanks, But it doesn't sound like they have any resources. They could have airlifted in massive generators and diesel fuel and used them to run the electric pumps. I don't know why it hasn't been done yet.

It's almost like they are just sitting in the control room pressing buttons hoping something works. They need to sack up and go outside, take one for the team and fix the problem manually.


----------



## omega17

Those rods were already 'cool' when the earthquake hit. All they need is a supply of water, and regulated pressure to keep them stable. Obviously both of these parameters have failed, hence the problems. If they can be submerged in water again, they will cool sufficiently. However, with the high radiation levels, it's hard to see how that will happen at this time


----------



## Hyoketsu

Apparently, fires are no longer visible - NHK.


----------



## Waffleboy

They just need a giant lead dome (a la The Simpsons Movie) and put it over the reactors. Joking aside, I'm hoping and praying (if that's allowed on OCN) that they will be able to stop this. Does anyone know if the official IAEA rating is still a 5?


----------



## Tunapiano

Sounds like things are worst than ever over there with this nuclear situtation


----------



## omega17

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;12745858*
> It'll block thyroid cancer, which is the biggest long-term effect of light radiation exposure. If the 750 rads that one prediction map I saw actually come through to the US, we're all dead anyway. Even just 100 rads is 100% fatal.


That map was a big hoax. Please ignore that information completely. You could stand on the reactor roof and get less than 750 Rads


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omega17;12745920*
> That map was a big hoax. Please ignore that information completely. You could stand on the reactor roof and get less than 750 Rads


I know that right now, radiation is still low, but if there were to be a huge meltdown and fire coming directly from one of the reactor cores, then much more radiation would be released. My understanding is that the map was a prediction of radioactivity if the plant went into a full, uncontrollable meltdown.


----------



## Krymore

Wonder if this would this work? Put some Copper pipes into the reactor, fill it with Desalinized Water, and release a bunch of Liquid Nitrogen into it for an instantaneous "Freezer".


----------



## xd_1771

So there really hasn't been much news since then? Or is lampen not around to update the OP?
What's been happening with the reactors so far?


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr.Pie;12745822*
> those fuel rods are spent fuel just decaying
> they continue to produce heat.......iirc
> 
> think of everythign thats happened
> *
> the whole nuclear facility has practically failed; theres a lot more on their hands than we could imagine*


No, the whole cooling system failed. If they could get it completely back up and working this wouldn't even be an issue. Most of the facility is likely still in complete working order aside from hydrogen explosions, cooling systems and issues with the one reactors containment.(well thats not entirely true because they used sea water so it is pretty much done for but thats besides the point.)


----------



## strap624

Why is this nuclear engineer saying that this is going to be chernobyl on steroids?? Haven't we discussed in this thread that a situation like that is highly unlikely with this type of reactor??


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scyy;12745986*
> No, the whole cooling system failed. If they could get it completely back up and working this wouldn't even be an issue. Most of the facility is likely still in completely working order aside from hydrogen explosions, cooling systems and issues with the one reactors containment.


They won't be able to reuse the Reactors as they were flooded with sea water causing corrosion in the reactors


----------



## jjsoviet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12745983*
> So there really hasn't been much news since then? Or is lampen not around to update the OP?
> What's been happening with the reactors so far?


Fire in Reactor 4 (though may have been put out by now), people are scrambling to cool those spent nuclear rods. If anything, this is a most crucial moment as these rods can combust if water levels are low.


----------



## robchaos

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78387.html

Estimated No 1. reactor 70% fuel rod damage, No. 2 reactor 33% damage.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;12745951*
> I know that right now, radiation is still low, but if there were to be a huge meltdown and fire coming directly from one of the reactor cores, then much more radiation would be released. My understanding is that the map was a prediction of radioactivity if the plant went into a full, uncontrollable meltdown.


That map actually implied meltdowns in several other plants and breaches of inner reactor containment buildings. It's utter crap.
Rather than the reactor cores melting down, the pressing problem right now is the situation at #4. Since the fuel rods are not in an ultra-thick containment building, the risks of radiation release are much higher.

Ehhh, time to hit the sack. Hopefully, morning will bring some good news, 'cause these last few days, every time I woke up, another thing had gone wrong during the night.


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzin92;12746017*
> They won't be able to reuse the Reactors as they were flooded with sea water causing corrosion in the reactors


I know, I forgot to add that and edited it in before seeing your post. As I said that is still besides the point. I wasn't implying it would work again after this. I was implying that the entire plant isn't completely out of control like saying "the entire plant has failed" implies.


----------



## robchaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scyy;12745986*
> No, the whole cooling system failed. If they could get it completely back up and working this wouldn't even be an issue. Most of the facility is likely still in complete working order aside from hydrogen explosions, cooling systems and issues with the one reactors containment.(well thats not entirely true because they used sea water so it is pretty much done for but thats besides the point.)


They have been uncertain from the start on the issue of whether containment has held up or not.


----------



## Buzzin92

URGENT: Fuel rods damage at ***ushima's 2 reactors estimated at 70%, 33%

TOKYO, March 16, Kyodo

An estimated 70 percent of the nuclear fuel rods have been damaged at the troubled No. 1 reactor of the ***ushima No.1 nuclear power plant and 33 percent at the No. 2 reactor, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Wednesday.

The reactors' cores are believed to have partially melted with their cooling functions lost after Friday's magnitude 9.0 earthquake rocked ***ushima Prefecture and other areas in northeastern and eastern Japan.

==Kyodo


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *robchaos;12746049*
> They have been uncertain from the start on the issue of whether containment has held up or not.


Containment wasn't an issue until reactor #2 as far as anyone knows. If it were an issue there would have been much more radiation at a much more consistent rate rather than this on and off again rate they are seeing.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12746033*
> That map actually implied meltdowns in several other plants and breaches of inner reactor containment buildings. It's utter crap.
> Rather than the reactor cores melting down, the pressing problem right now is the situation at #4. Since the fuel rods are not in an ultra-thick containment building, the risks of radiation release are much higher.
> 
> Ehhh, time to hit the sack. Hopefully, morning will bring some good news, 'cause these last few days, every time I woke up, another thing had gone wrong during the night.


Ah, ok, makes sense.


----------



## robchaos

good news is the reactor 4 fire seems to have gone out http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698


----------



## Tunapiano

more images from the tsunami/quake



















*Vehicles driving south out of ***ushima prefecture, where a troubled nuclear power plant is located, create a traffic jam in Kitaibaraki, north of Tokyo on Tuesday. Conditions at the crippled nuclear power plant deteriorated further Tuesday, with a Japanese nuclear safety official saying that the water inside the waste fuel storage pool for a damaged reactor may be boiling.*










*A long line of vehicles forms along a street waiting for gasoline at Ageo, north of Tokyo, on Tuesday.*










*A Japanese home is seen adrift in the Pacific Ocean, in this photograph taken on March 13 and released on March 14. Ships and aircrafts from the U.S. Navy's Ronald Reagan Carrier Strike Group are searching for survivors in the coastal waters near Sendai*


----------



## Johnny Guitar

just bury it in concrete before we all die


----------



## Waffleboy

^I'm actually surprised traffic isn't a lot worse than in those pictures.


----------



## _CH_Skyline_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12746033*
> Ehhh, time to hit the sack. Hopefully, morning will bring some good news, 'cause these last few days, every time I woke up, another thing had gone wrong during the night.


It's clear then, DO NOT GO TO SLEEP!


----------



## Lampen

OP updated with all recent information.


----------



## kurt1288

Just because people freak out, I thought I'd post this:

"Health Officials Warn Against Taking Potassium Iodide"
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/mar/15/health-officials-warn-against-taking-potassium-iod/


----------



## omega17

Why are the street lights on?







They're trying to conserve electricity to avoid major blackouts, so they leave the street lights on?


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurt1288;12746311*
> Just because people freak out, I thought I'd post this:
> 
> "Health Officials Warn Against Taking Potassium Iodide"
> http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/mar/15/health-officials-warn-against-taking-potassium-iod/


Good post, thanks.


----------



## Johnny Guitar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omega17;12746315*
> Why are the street lights on?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're trying to conserve electricity to avoid major blackouts, so they leave the street lights on?


so people can drive?


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omega17;12746315*
> Why are the street lights on?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're trying to conserve electricity to avoid major blackouts, so they leave the street lights on?


They probably don't want to be blamed for a bad vehicle accident related to a lack of street lighting. IMO though, I'd turn those off too when trying to conserve electricity.

Maybe there's not an easy way to turn all of them off?


----------



## Tennobanzai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omega17;12746315*
> Why are the street lights on?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're trying to conserve electricity to avoid major blackouts, so they leave the street lights on?


It's unsafe? Areas that are being evacuated deserve the electricity they need.


----------



## Obakemono

It needs to be understood that the reactors were at full power or very near full power, or 450-785mw (except for #4, it was being refueled) at the time of the scram, so they had a massive amount of heat built up in the reactor. The cooling system was working FINE , running off of diesel back-up generators, removing the decay heat from the reactors until the tsunami hit (30 mins or less after the earthquake). That knocked out the gen-sets and the reactors had no cooling water to remove the decay heat, so they over-heated and you see the end result. A reactor just does not cool off in 4 hours, it is more like 3 months in a controlled way, or in a scram about 4-5 days to get the core under 100c (boiling point of water).


----------



## omega17

It's not unsafe. Cars have headlights. It's coming up to a full moon also.

I just thought it would be one of the first things to go in a widespread need to conserve energy


----------



## Tennobanzai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omega17;12746463*
> It's not unsafe. Cars have headlights. It's coming up to a full moon also.
> 
> I just thought it would be one of the first things to go in a widespread need to conserve energy


Then why are street lights made in the first place?


----------



## omega17

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Obakemono;12746457*
> *snip* A reactor just does not cool off in 4 hours, it is more like 3 months in a controlled way, or in a scram about 4-5 days to get the core under 100c (boiling point of water).


At the extremely high pressures inside a [working] reactor, water doesn't boil at 100C. It boils much higher. This is the main issue with a loss of pressure in a reactor.

Lets not get into a debate about the necessity of street lighting


----------



## xd_1771

Wasn't the fire in reactor 4 put out quite awhile ago?
That's old news


----------



## Flack88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12746567*
> Wasn't the fire in reactor 4 put out quite awhile ago?
> That's old news


They said it either never whent out or caught fire again...

The VITAL point that they are keeping suspiciously quiet about is what exactly is burning.









From what iv just heard on NHK the reporter asked what exactly is burning. His reply was strange to say the least. He 1st said it was hydrogen, then said it wasnt hydrogen as hydrogen explodes and doesnt burn. He then said there is a possibility that its the fuel dump burning.


----------



## andrewq2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12746567*
> Wasn't the fire in reactor 4 put out quite awhile ago?
> That's old news


It was another fire.

edit:
NINJAED


----------



## v639dragoon

Damn, reactor after reactor keeps going. I feel so bad, I wish there was someway we could all contribute our cooling systems cooling and combine it and cool the reactors from our homes. I know that's impossible, but I'm just saying I wish there was something we could do


----------



## CyberWolf575

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v639dragoon;12746626*
> Damn, reactor after reactor keeps going. I feel so bad, I wish there was someway we could all contribute our cooling systems cooling and combine it and cool the reactors from our homes. I know that's impossible, but I'm just saying I wish there was something we could do


OCN to save the COUNTRY!







That'd be great.


----------



## omega17

It was a new fire, worryingly was only spotted by an employee who was 'carrying batteries'









Details are rather vague, but I like the way the reporters are grilling the TEPCO officials especially; yesterday they were even more forceful with their questionning. Seems like they're tired of being drip-fed half-truths


----------



## willis888

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *strap624;12746000*
> Why is this nuclear engineer saying that this is going to be chernobyl on steroids?? Haven't we discussed in this thread that a situation like that is highly unlikely with this type of reactor??


It is not the reactor(s) that would cause the release of radiation. The core(s) are not at risk of catching on fire while exposed to the atmosphere.

The storage tank filled with old fuel rods is the concern. Those spent fuel rods are cooler than the core of the reactor, but still produce enough heat to light themselves on fire. To prevent a fire, they are kept under water, and that water is circulated through a heat exchange to keep it cool.

If the circulation system is broken and the pools are boiling, that would produce enough hydrogen to cause the explosions we've seen. If the pools are boiling, then the water level is dropping. It would be very bad if the spent fuel became uncovered and started to burn. The pools are not enclosed like the reactor core is - the water is the only shielding between the spent fuel and the atmosphere. If the spent fuel begins to burn, it will send up a cloud of radioactive dust. The radioactive elements in spent fuel rods have a longer half-life than what was released by Chernobyl, and there is more material in a storage pool than was present in that ill-fated reactor. However, unlike Chernobyl, there will not be a partial nuclear detonation that blasts globs of molten uranium for miles in all directions.


----------



## james_ant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willis888;12746805*
> It is not the reactor(s) that would cause the release of radiation. The core(s) are not at risk of catching on fire while exposed to the atmosphere.
> 
> The storage tank filled with old fuel rods is the concern. Those spent fuel rods are cooler than the core of the reactor, but still produce enough heat to light themselves on fire. To prevent a fire, they are kept under water, and that water is circulated through a heat exchange to keep it cool.
> 
> If the circulation system is broken and the pools are boiling, that would produce enough hydrogen to cause the explosions we've seen. If the pools are boiling, then the water level is dropping. It would be very bad if the spent fuel became uncovered and started to burn. The pools are not enclosed like the reactor core is - the water is the only shielding between the spent fuel and the atmosphere. If the spent fuel begins to burn, it will send up a cloud of radioactive dust. The radioactive elements in spent fuel rods have a longer half-life than what was released by Chernobyl, and there is more material in a storage pool than was present in that ill-fated reactor. However, unlike Chernobyl, there will not be a partial nuclear detonation that blasts globs of molten uranium for miles in all directions.


Wow, why does japan rely so much on nuclear power anyway when they are at such risk of s tsunami all the time.


----------



## Waffleboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *james_ant;12746961*
> Wow, why does japan rely so much on nuclear power anyway when they are at such risk of s tsunami all the time.


I heard people discussing this on the radio today, basically they have so few natural resources that they have little choice but to use nuclear power. Plus, they were prepared for normal earthquakes and tsunamis, this was a once-in-500-years earthquake.


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *james_ant;12746961*
> Wow, why does japan rely so much on nuclear power anyway when they are at such risk of s tsunami all the time.


Nuclear power is fine there, it is the fact that the backup generators that would control the cooling when the reactors shutdown were above ground and got knocked out from the tsunami. Had they been below ground like modern plants there would be no issue. Japan will just have to rework their facilities to have the generators below ground in any that are designed like the ones that are giving them issues right now. You have to keep in mind these are 40 year old plants that were set to be decommissioned in a month. Most of Japans nuclear plants are much more modern with much better safety precautions than the ones that are giving them trouble.


----------



## Buzzin92

What i find ironic is that im watching the latest episode of "The Event" and its about uranium and chernobyl...... Im worried now, everything is circling around this disaster!


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Waffleboy;12746994*
> I heard people discussing this on the radio today, basically they have so few natural resources that they have little choice but to use nuclear power. Plus, they were prepared for normal earthquakes and tsunamis, this was a once-in-500-years earthquake.


it's not so once in 500 years when we have had 5 or more world wide earthquakes that were 7.0 - 9.1 in the last 7 years stretching from india to chile to haiti to new zealand to japan and 3 of those were on the same plate.....the pacific plate.


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12747101*
> it's not so once in 500 years when we have had 5 or more world wide earthquakes that were 7.0 - 9.1 in the last 7 years stretching from india to chile to haiti to new zealand to japan and 3 of those were on the same plate.....the pacific plate.


Which is exactly why they need to upgrade their older plants and get them at least near the same level as more modern plants safety wise.(not that they are unsafe but there are always things they can do to make them better) Japan *can not* give up nuclear, they have no means to power their country without it.


----------



## damric

edited by damric. nevermind.


----------



## Tennobanzai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scyy;12747048*
> You have to keep in mind these are 40 year old plants that were set to be decommissioned in a month.


Link of reference?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Awesome, damric's back posting. What's your take on the fuel pools in unit 4?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;12747410*
> Awesome, damric's back posting. What's your take on the fuel pools in unit 4?


Haven't heard anything reliable about that. I just got home from a 13 hour shift at the plant, and I'm going to bed. I'll find out what I can and share my thoughts again tomorrow night. Trust no one, especially news media that earns a profit from advertising.


----------



## Waffleboy

I have a question Damric, about what you said about the Boiling Water Reactors. Even if the name does not accurately describe how the reactor functions, isn't that still a term used for a specific type of reactor? I'm not an expert by any means, but I've been hearing the term for years.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Don't mean to be an asshat, but why should we reject every expert, even the head of the us nuclear power group. Damric has posted some useful info but for him to say what he just did is crazy. I highly doubt the best nuclear power specialist don't know what they are talking about. Dare I say they may be even more informed than damric so we SHOULD listen to what they say..whether someone on here beleives it or not..30 or 40 specialists all saying the same thing should hold a little more weight than 1 person on overclock.net


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blue Destroyer;12747614*
> Don't mean to be an asshat, but why should we reject every expert, even the head of the us nuclear power group. Damric has posted some useful info but for him to say what he just did is crazy. I highly doubt the best nuclear power specialist don't know what they are talking about. Dare I say they may be even more informed than damric so we SHOULD listen to what they say..whether someone on here beleives it or not..30 or 40 specialists all saying the same thing should hold a little more weight than 1 person on overclock.net


They are hardly all saying the same thing. Look at the difference in tone of the specialists between say CNN and fox and places like pbs and bbc. Obviously some are going to know what they are talking about but there are many that clearly are pushing an agenda.


----------



## Flack88

Theres a hell of a lot of dense white smoke comming out of the reactor atm.


----------



## BigFrank

anyone have a link to live news feed I can watch via my pc?


----------



## AdvanSuper

http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv43386411?from=lv43296023


----------



## paulerxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFrank;12747908*
> anyone have a link to live news feed I can watch via my pc?


http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv

My god..Those poor poor people, hundreds in a school gym. Only 4 small heaters, their running out of fuel, no electricity, it JUST snowed, it's about 10 degrees out.


----------



## BigFrank

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88;12747857*
> Theres a hell of a lot of dense white smoke comming out of the reactor atm.


They just showed a live pic of white/gray smoke coming out of #4 reactor. Might be steam?


----------



## Trigunflame

Smoke _or_ Steam? That's the question.


----------



## BigFrank

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trigunflame;12748001*
> Smoke or Steam? That's the question.


Not sure. They wouldnt say. The Chopper is 30km away.


----------



## oventek

It looks like steam. Very white.


----------



## Flack88

Quote:


> 0146 : Tepco says the reactor 3 at ***ushima Daiichi nuclear power plant has been emitting white smoke for about 45 minutes, Kyodo News reports. The plant's reactor 4 was the one where a fire broke out earlier this morning, Tepco said.


Is'nt that the one that uses the mixed fuel?


----------



## biaxident

i think they just said that is white smoke


----------



## BigFrank

white smoke indeed.


----------



## Trigunflame

Too far away IMO to make a distinction.


----------



## metroidfreak

There is going to be a press conference starting very soon.


----------



## BigFrank

Either way it's bad. Steam means they are losing water or hydrogen went off or it's a fire.


----------



## Buzzin92

white smoke usually means water vapour. Just like a cracked head on an engine, ALLOT of hot white steam/smoke is exhausted. basically i think the containment pool holding the spent fuel is basically boiling and causing radiation to emit.

EDIT:

This also may be what is catching fire all the time. Once water levels drop the spent rods will get hot enough to spontaneously combust


----------



## paulerxx

It looks like a post-nuclear war, it's unbelievable. I hate how they keep saying "it's safe for human health." What about the rest of the animals? Nature life?


----------



## Telimektar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paulerxx;12748124*
> It looks like a post-nuclear war, it's unbelievable. I hate how they keep saying "it's safe for human health." What about the rest of the animals? Nature life?


I'd say it's not really a priority at the moment.


----------



## snoball

Press conference beings. http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv


----------



## Buzzin92

Oh wait... the steam is coming from Reactor 3?

AND im sure she just said 1000 mSv














and lower down to 600-800
















That is dangerously high

Either theres a crack in the container (i doubt) or the automatically closed valves have popped


----------



## oventek

At the gate did he say it reached 1 sievert? As opposed to millisievert


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oventek;12748230*
> At the gate did he say it reached 1 sievert? As opposed to millisievert


yes 1 Sievert (1000 millisievert)


----------



## t4ct1c47

Hope nobody living near that place was looking to sell their home, something like this will certainly devalue a person's property.


----------



## Trigunflame

1Sv at the front gate, eek.


----------



## Buzzin92

This is just ridiculusly high radiation, there has to be a breach somewhere...


----------



## snoball

Is Lampen online and seeing this conference?


----------



## Buzzin92

Yes i believe he is. (hes active in the current user list at the bottom of the page)


----------



## BigFrank

Did I hear that right, that they pulled all of the workers out of there?


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigFrank;12748319*
> Did I hear that right, that they pulled all of the workers out of there?


I hope they have, although it could be too late for them. Unless they were wearing protective equipment. Poor souls


----------



## metroidfreak

Yes, they have pulled out everyone as to what I've heard, they don't want to put more water in there either now due to the dangers.

And yeah, there remaining 50 who were in there did have protective suits on.


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metroidfreak;12748343*
> Yes, they have pulled out everyone as to what I've heard, they don't want to put more water in there either now due to the dangers.
> 
> And yeah, there remaining 50 who were in there did have protective suits on.


If they are not feeding water into the reactors then a meltdown will be iminent.

But wait, what was the translator just on about... she's confused me now


----------



## oventek

I think the translator might have messed up. In the questions they said it reached 1000 microsieverts, or 1 millesievert


----------



## paulerxx

So confused.


----------



## metroidfreak

At the gate they were getting a reading of 1000millisievert. and they said they weren't going to drop water from above, not stopping water completely. sorry.


----------



## Waffleboy

Wait, so if they pull everyone out and can't dump water on, what happens??


----------



## BigFrank

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Waffleboy;12748421*
> Wait, so if they pull everyone out and can't dump water on, what happens??


Game Over


----------



## jjsoviet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trigunflame;12748262*
> 1Sv at the front gate, eek.


Oh crap. What now?


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metroidfreak;12748420*
> At the gate they were getting a reading of 1000millisievert. and they said they weren't going to drop water from above, not stopping water completely. sorry.


Confused on the radiation levels now, but i would of thought that dropping water from the air would be more dangerous, i would of thought radiation would rise attached to the smoke/steam.

This seems like a last desperate attempt of cooling the reactors down.


----------



## jjsoviet

White smoke in ***ushima Daiichi plant! D:


----------



## snoball

Lampen, any ideas? I am carrying out a similar thread to this on my FB. Helping to inform people from my school. I have tried my best to post the news.


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jjsoviet;12748474*
> White smoke in ***ushima Daiichi plant! D:


yeah, im guessing its steam. considering its the plutonium and uranium MOX reactor it will run considerably hotter than the other reactors.


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball;12748488*
> Lampen, any ideas? I am carrying out a similar thread to this on my FB. Helping to inform people from my school. I have tried my best to post the news.


im doing the same







posting as much information on my FB to inform college friends.


----------



## Ocnewb

Wow, everything looks so bad right now







. Poor Japan, i try to donate all the extra money i have.


----------



## kboom1

cnn says last 50 workers evacuated because of high raid is this true


----------



## jjsoviet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ocnewb;12748573*
> Wow, everything looks so bad right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Poor Japan, i try to donate all the extra money i have.


Yeah. More than 3,000 confirmed dead? Wow.

I certainly applaud the Japanese for their vigilance and discipline during the quake and tsunami, but unfortunately many still died or went missing after the disaster. Now the nuclear threat is looming, and we cannot confirm if things in ***ushima are going for the better or for the worst.

Best of luck to them.


----------



## snoball

My latest FB update. Can anyone confirm?
US and France up ***ushima Disaster to 6 on the International Nuclear Event Scale. Chernobyl is a 7. All of this is from Reactor #2 which uses Uranium-235 and Plutonium-239 as fuel. This reactor is now smoking/steaming and has damage to its pressure vessel.


----------



## Tunapiano

confirmed
Quote:


> ***USHIMA, Japan - Workers at a quake-damaged atomic power plant suspended operations and evacuated Wednesday after a surge in radiation made it too dangerous to remain there, dealing a setback to Japan's frantic efforts to stem a nuclear crisis.
> 
> "All the workers there have suspended their operations. We have urged them to evacuate, and they have," Japan's chief cabinet secretary, Yukio Edano said, according to a translation by NHK television.


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball;12748628*
> My latest FB update. Can anyone confirm?
> US and France up ***ushima Disaster to 6 on the International Nuclear Event Scale. Chernobyl is a 7. All of this is from Reactor #2 which uses Uranium-235 and Plutonium-239 as fuel. This reactor is now smoking/steaming and has damage to its pressure vessel.


The scale that france used on the ***ushima disaster is different to what the chernobyl disaster is. as far as we know it is still at 4 out of 7 compared to chernobyl. the rest of the statement, however, is true.


----------



## snoball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12748653*
> confirmed
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Paraphrased: Plant Evacuated.
Click to expand...

Not good.


----------



## kboom1

cnn reporting that unit 4 is smoking where the spent fuel pool is thought to be exposed


----------



## Buzzin92

im sure they said 1Sv again at the main gate.

1Sv = 1000 Millisievert
1Sv = 100REM

EDIT BAH its a recording, the translation error happened again.


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kboom1;12748717*
> cnn reporting that unit 4 is smoking where the spent fuel pool is thought to be exposed


nobody is left to stop it, the entire plant is evacuated...this is pretty much going to get out of control in the coming hours. I predict it will be upgraded to a Level 6 tomorrow evening if they don't get back in there.


----------



## CRosko42

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12748740*
> nobody is left to stop it, the entire plant is evacuated...this is pretty much going to get out of control in the coming hours. I predict it will be upgraded to a Level 6 tomorrow evening if they don't get back in there.


Yeah this is going to get bad very very fast.


----------



## jjsoviet

So it's roughly 2-ish millisieverts now in the plant? I haven't heard the report correctly, sorry.


----------



## Ocnewb

In situation like this, i wish we were advanced enough so that we can get some robots in there and do the jobs instead of people.


----------



## Waffleboy

It's gotta be 1-2 sv or they wouldn't be evacuating.


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jjsoviet;12748778*
> So it's roughly 2-ish millisieverts now in the plant? I haven't heard the report correctly, sorry.


the translation seems skittish, not able to get the numbers correctly and what level its measured in. will need to get confirmation from others if possible.


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Waffleboy;12748789*
> It's gotta be 1-2 sv or they wouldn't be evacuating.


NHK is reporting 2 millisiverts

Edit:
Quote:


> The container of the No.3 reactor of the quake-hit ***ushima No.1 nuclear power plant is feared to have been damaged and may have leaked radioactive steam Wednesday, emitting high-level radiation, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said.
> 
> The radiation level briefly topped 2 milisievert at the plant, its operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. separately said.
> 
> The explanations were given after smoke was seen rising from the No.3 reactor since around 8:30 a.m., according to Edano.
> 
> ==Kyodo


----------



## Waffleboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12748795*
> NHK is reporting 2 millisiverts


My post was speculation, and I REALLY hope I'm wrong.


----------



## snoball

2 mSv is low. I doubt they would evac. for that.


----------



## wtRiViaL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ocnewb;12748782*
> In situation like this, i wish we were advanced enough so that we can get some robots in there and do the jobs instead of people.


I was just thinking this. Guided robots are perfect for these disaster rescue operations...we already use them for military operations


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball;12748826*
> 2 mSv is low. I doubt they would evac. for that.


I still think they are covering something up, why else evacuate the workers?

Anyways im off to bed, got college in a couple of hours









Will report back at college.


----------



## snoball

Same here buzz. I got High School.


----------



## Tunapiano

Unfortunately it seems pretty consistent, NHK and Kyodo both reporting the 2 msv radiation level. I don't know what that amounts too but it must have been enough to evacuate.


----------



## jjsoviet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzin92;12748792*
> the translation seems skittish, not able to get the numbers correctly and what level its measured in. will need to get confirmation from others if possible.


I understand how frantic it must have been for both the engineers and the translator to bring the news. Hope things get cleared out by tomorrow.


----------



## jcf1

2mSv isn't enough to evac. There have been worse numbers over the last few days. I'm really starting to question what is real and what is a completely fallacy at this point. I'm terribly concerned if they've really left this plant to essentially burn itself to death.


----------



## kboom1

pob trying to downplay as to not panic the public maybe the start of doomsday pedictions coming true?


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jcf1;12748883*
> 2mSv isn't enough to evac. There have been worse numbers over the last few days. I'm really starting to question what is real and what is a completely fallacy at this point. I'm terribly concerned if they've really left this plant to essentially burn itself to death.


Well it wasn't TEPCO who made the decision to leave, it was the Japanese Safety Agency, so maybe something is being hidden or happened that we aren't being told about.


----------



## jjsoviet

Emergency news - possibility of an earthquake incoming.


----------



## jcf1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12748902*
> Well it wasn't TEPCO who made the decision to leave, it was the Japanese Safety Agency, so maybe something is being hidden or happened that we aren't being told about.


That is my fear. The thought of leaving this out-of-control reactor to do its own this is worrisome. Let's hope they didn't just say "screw it" and let it fall apart.


----------



## Tunapiano

They are warning on NHK against a strong earthquake, Advanced earthquake warning in 4 or 5 prefectures, i can't pronounce them.


----------



## CRosko42

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jjsoviet;12748910*
> Emergency news - possibility of an earthquake incoming.


Edit: Nevermind, found it.


----------



## kboom1

cnn just said 400ms inside plant ??????huh


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jjsoviet;12748910*
> Emergency news - possibility of an earthquake incoming.


Where? At Japan again? Because they've been having severe aftershocks since 3-9 (and before shocks).

EDIT: Nevermind I see it above.


----------



## Tunapiano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;12748932*
> Where? At Japan again? Because they've been having severe aftershocks since 3-9 (and before shocks).


Yes, they are stating in NHK that they are giving advanced warning for people in 4 or 5 prefectures to go indoors, advanced earthquake warning.


----------



## FearSC549

Good thing they shut down one of the plants after radiation level was too high for workers to remain in the factory.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_japan_earthquake


----------



## jjsoviet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;12748932*
> Where? At Japan again? Because they've been having severe aftershocks since 3-9 (and before shocks).


Yep. An advanced emergency warning is already set off, hopefully it won't be that strong, and won't affect ***ushima in any way.


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> I understand how frantic it must have been for both the engineers and the translator to bring the news. Hope things get cleared out by tomorrow.


Yeah, id hate to be in that position...
Quote:


> Unfortunately it seems pretty consistent, NHK and Kyodo both reporting the 2 msv radiation level. I don't know what that amounts too but it must have been enough to evacuate.


2mSv isnt enough to harm human, but prolonged exposure may affect white blood cells and bone marrow (not sure)
Quote:


> Same here buzz. I got High School.


Haha, i get to have fun in building computers against the clock at college, currently the record holder (15 mins and 23 secs done last year







)


----------



## jcf1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FearSC549;12748952*
> Good thing they shut down one of the plants after radiation level was too high for workers to remain in the factory.
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_japan_earthquake


I want to stress to you that they didn't shut it down. They just stopped keeping people there to try and fight this thing. It's a real problem now they there is too much radiation to keep workers there who were preventing doomsday scenarios. The reactors at this plant are still going, there are just no humans to help slow them down.


----------



## snoball

JCF1, you live near me, lol.


----------



## jcf1

You're right I do! I'm hailing from the ever-famous Bucks County with very little fear of growing a third arm. However I can't say the same for these poor people.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/breaking-japanese-workers-at-nuclear-plant-forced-to-evacuate/


----------



## snoball

I hope for better news tomorrow morning. I am off to catch some Zs. Good night and good luck Japan.


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball;12749060*
> I hope for better news tomorrow morning. I am off to catch some Zs. Good night and good luck Japan.


+1 to that


----------



## kboom1

live next to pp&l nuke plant in luzerne. they keep the spent fuel in lead lined cement tombs outside my back yard............. scary


----------



## Ocnewb

Honestly, i don't know what Japan is gonna do now, seems like everything has gone out of hands.


----------



## jjsoviet

Gonna get some shuteye now, ladies and gents. Please, Japan should be able to sort this thing out. It seems things are going downhill here.


----------



## Vlasov_581

earthquake again


----------



## My arms stuck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunapiano;12748946*
> Yes, they are stating in NHK that they are giving advanced warning for people in 4 or 5 prefectures to go indoors, advanced earthquake warning.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jjsoviet;12748953*
> Yep. An advanced emergency warning is already set off, hopefully it won't be that strong, and won't affect ***ushima in any way.


Any more information on this like how powerful it will be or when it will hit? Or a source maybe? I coulda sworn right now on NHK I just heard them say something about an earthquake hitting that might cause another tsunami..no way that's the one we're talking about now is it?

Edit: Sounds like the earthquake they were talking about was rated 6.0 at it's strongest and happened on Monday. Apparently not the one the current warning is about lol.


----------



## xd_1771

Efforts to cool radiators suspended as workers evacuated
True? Extremely bad news if so, now there's absolutely no effort to cool the radiators--


----------



## cgg123321

I saw this from a site someone linked:

_"Contrary to some reports, a core group of workers remain at the ***ushima Daiichi plant. It is not abandoned."
_
https://twitter.com/HirokoTabuchi/status/47851735263354880

NYT tech reporter


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vlasov_581;12749203*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> earthquake again


source?


----------



## metroidfreak

I'm going to believe the Japanese news over a NYT reporter who probably hasn't left the office. NYT has gotten enough information wrong during all of this for me to even pay attention to em.


----------



## cbr600

Its all over the net they have returned as the levels dropped a little


----------



## arson2121

how far away from the reactors is the "gate" where they are actually measuring the radiation levels?


----------



## XAslanX

Picture of the damaged reactors 3 & 4 from the live stream


----------



## gammite

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kboom1;12749101*
> live next to pp&l nuke plant in luzerne. they keep the spent fuel in lead lined cement tombs outside my back yard............. scary


you need to move.


----------



## Vlasov_581

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazloisdavrock;12749314*
> source?


are you watching the stream?......the cam on the tower was shaking
http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv43386411?from=lv43296023


----------



## Red Rabbit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vlasov_581;12749515*
> are you watching the stream?......the cam on the tower was shaking
> http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv43386411?from=lv43296023


Was just an aftershock I believe.


----------



## Vlasov_581

i just checked this


----------



## arson2121

that aftershock would be considered a pretty significant earthquake anywhere else or at any other time heh. weather looks good though with winds coming from the northwest, means anything vented from the daiichi plant will be pushed mostly out to sea.


----------



## slipstream808

My God the stress those workers must be under is insane. I mean if radiation doesn't take years off of them the stress will (bad joke but imagining what they are going through is just exhausting). Trying to avert a disaster for days in a row with what just feels like no end in sight and with nothing going right. And I can only think clearly about it because I'm half a world away where it is safe and sound. As soon as that was over I'd retire and ask for full pension/benefits (no idea how that stuff works in Japan).

Best of luck to them. I just wish the world could see the efforts of these heroes in person.


----------



## arson2121

i have a feeling that those 50 won't have much time to enjoy pension/benefits after the s*** storm blows over.


----------



## ThumperSD

Im a bit surprised no worker volunteered to stay


----------



## aweir

My heart just sank. horrible news folks. The workers had to abandon the plant because of radiation. Now it is left to completely melt down and we can't do anything about it.. Oh, god this is horrible news....


----------



## CStylen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12749996*
> My heart just sank. horrible news folks. The workers had to abandon the plant because of radiation. Now it is left to completely melt down and we can't do anything about it.. Oh, god this is horrible news....


The plant was never abandoned. Workers outside were told to take cover indoors, but never left


----------



## c0nnection

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12749996*
> My heart just sank. horrible news folks. The workers had to abandon the plant because of radiation. Now it is left to completely melt down and we can't do anything about it.. Oh, god this is horrible news....


Actually, you are a bit behind. They've just returned to the site after radiation levels dropped.


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12749996*
> My heart just sank. horrible news folks. The workers had to abandon the plant because of radiation. Now it is left to completely melt down and we can't do anything about it.. Oh, god this is horrible news....


And that's at the mox reactor too..... If they can still somehow cool it down it'll be good..
c0nnection proof?


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12749996*
> My heart just sank. horrible news folks. The workers had to abandon the plant because of radiation. Now it is left to completely melt down and we can't do anything about it.. Oh, god this is horrible news....


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cgg123321;12749309*
> I saw this from a site someone linked:
> 
> _"Contrary to some reports, a core group of workers remain at the ***ushima Daiichi plant. It is not abandoned."
> _
> https://twitter.com/HirokoTabuchi/status/47851735263354880
> 
> NYT tech reporter


^^


----------



## Digigami

Not sure if this has been posted, a live webcam from someone at Yokosnews in Yokkaichi, Mie, Japan. He's just talking about what he has experienced right now but is giving news updates as they get them in Japan.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel-popup/YokosoNews


----------



## r_stanley

Gah, this thread is both good and bad.

I work in nuclear power and have a couple points.

First, please try and get your info from here: http://nei.cachefly.net/newsandevent...n-that-region/

NEI won't be filled with all the fanfare and dramatics of outlet media sources.

Next does Damric work in nuclear power now? Most navy nukes do when they get out. If so he can get into some serious trouble with his employer since ALL companies that own and operate nukes in the US have issued orders for their employees to NOT speculate or discuss these matters to the media, on the web, or any other type of public outlet.

While your work on this thread is much appreciated, a lot of what you have is pure speculation. It's good that you have the updates and such. It's your sources that may be...shall we say skewed.


----------



## aweir

Ok, we have 50 different news agencies saying 50 different things changing their story every 5 minutes. We are expected to know which is right with conflicting information.

One minute they're battling dangerous radiation, the next minute they're sitting in the park drinking coffee.


----------



## AdvanSuper

Edano was vague, said workers would go to a safe place. I checked w/ NISA & TEPCO, who clarified workers were moving inside but not leaving.

https://twitter.com/HirokoTabuchi/st...82019102928896


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

gonna laugh in an hour when everythings shutdown and fine and they all left for drinks


----------



## aweir

Well of course they said workers were still there. They are Brave Japanese, fearless.

Who wants to start a panic if they said they just abandoned the place?
They will die trying to fight this thing even if it's futile. I believe they will have to resort to encapsulating all four reactors with a sarcophagus. I don't believe they will be able to control it, not if the containment domes are being damaged.

We need the true story. It should be getting easier and easier to cool them, not harder and harder. We don't need it sugar coated by an anonymous twitter user.

Quote:



Radiation levels at the plant have surged and dropped repeatedly over the past few days. The most recent spike "probably" occurred "because the containment vessel in reactor No. 3 has been damaged," a spokesman for Japan's nuclear safety agency later told reporters.


----------



## _GTech

Anti-Nuclear protest are growing world-wide, seems like this incident may spark a major revolt by the people of the world to end Nuclear Power Plants all together...

I cannot say, in the light of what's happening in Japan, that they would be wrong to do so.

Quote:



Originally Posted by * CNN*

Berlin, Germany (CNN) -- Thousands of German demonstrators urged their leaders Monday night to shut down nuclear power plants in their country.

The protests were staged in Berlin and other cities days after a powerful earthquake damaged nuclear plants in Japan and spurred fears of radiation there.

Thorben Becker of the Federation for Environmental Protection, an environmental group, said the movement had received a major boost from the crisis in Japan.

Becker said more than 100,000 turned up in more than 400 cities. There were hundreds of people at the Berlin protests and shouts of "turn them off," a reference to Germany nuclear reactors, rang through the demonstration.


To me the aftermath is just as important as the actual original story, so when Japan is done melting-down, what next?


----------



## Villosa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r_stanley;12750051*
> Gah, this thread is both good and bad.
> 
> I work in nuclear power and have a couple points.
> 
> First, please try and get your info from here: http://nei.cachefly.net/newsandevents/information-on-the-japanese-earthquake-and-reactors-in-that-region/
> 
> NEI won't be filled with all the fanfare and dramatics of outlet media sources.
> 
> Next does Damric work in nuclear power now? Most navy nukes do when they get out. If so he can get into some serious trouble with his employer since ALL companies that own and operate nukes in the US have issued orders for their employees to NOT speculate or discuss these matters to the media, on the web, or any other type of public outlet.
> 
> While your work on this thread is much appreciated, a lot of what you have is pure speculation. It's good that you have the updates and such. It's your sources that may be...shall we say skewed.


No worries, Damric works at a steel mill I believe.


----------



## aweir

Heh. Heh.

? was this intended to be a joke because it was a _little_ funny. but I have confidence that he knows what he's talking about and knows more than you and I would ever know put together.


----------



## pjBSOD

So what's going on with this? I don't even bother following the news anymore about this, 50 different stations saying 50 different things.

Is the radiation continuously getting worse, or are the workers back there doing their best to maintain stability?


----------



## GIPrice

Simple question. Is radiation going to make it to California?


----------



## aweir

on air jibtv seems to be up to the date. http://jibtv.com/program/fullscreen.aspx?page=0

Radioactive smoke is leaking from MOX reactor 3. but of course it won't be "confirmed" until next year or when everyone on the site drops dead..


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

That's steam, not smoke. :/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GIPrice;12750683*
> Simple question. Is radiation going to make it to California?


Not unless there's a major MAJOR release.

Also! Kyodo has updated the statuses of all units at plant 1:
Quote:


> -- Reactor No. 1 - Cooling failure, partial melting of core, vapor vented, building damaged Saturday by hydrogen explosion, seawater being pumped in.
> 
> -- Reactor No. 2 - Cooling failure, seawater being pumped in, fuel rods fully exposed temporarily, vapor vented, building damaged Monday by blast at Reactor No. 3, damage to containment vessel on Tuesday, potential meltdown feared.
> 
> -- Reactor No. 3 - Cooling failure, partial melting of core feared, vapor vented, seawater being pumped in, building damaged Monday by hydrogen explosion, high-level radiation measured nearby on Tuesday, plume of smoke observed Wednesday, damage to containment vessel likely.
> 
> -- Reactor No. 4 - Under maintenance when quake struck, fire Tuesday possibly caused by hydrogen explosion at pool holding spent fuel rods, pool water level not observed, fire observed Wednesday at building housing reactor, no water poured in to cool pool.
> 
> -- Reactor No. 5, No. 6 - Under maintenance when quake struck, temperature slightly rising in spent fuel pool.


All 4 reactors at plant 2 have entered cold shutdown and are stable.


----------



## GIPrice

Sweetness because I don't have an iodine pills


----------



## Ocnewb

This feed is not news but after i read it, i really admire the Japanese ppl:

Quote:



0606: markmackinnon tweets: "Amid everything going wrong in Japan, the polite helpfulness ordinary Japanese offer to a stranger astonishes me."


Wish i could volunteer to go to Japan and help out, after all we're asian and we'd help each other out.







too bad school is going on atm.


----------



## Trigunflame




----------



## Ocnewb

Also:

Quote:



0648: The mayor of Koriyama city, near ***ushima, says there's a desperate need for fuel, oil water and food for evacuees. "I really would like to appeal to the world: We need help," the mayor, Masao Hara, tells AFP.


I hope they will get some helps soon







.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Nuclear plant operator says pressure in Daiichi reactor No. 2 container vessel and nuclear core has fallen - Reuters

Nuclear plant operator says Daiichi Reactor No.2 temperatures have stabilised - Reuters


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

NHK World Live now reporting GE is going to send diesel generators over to try to restart the cooling systems; this should make the job much easier.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


NHK World Live now reporting GE is going to send diesel generators over to try to restart the cooling systems; this should make the job much easier.


Errrrr... About darn time?
I wonder what's been keeping them so long. Oh well, better late than never. Hoping for some more good news~


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Well, until then TEPCO has received a water truck from our military and will use it to try to inject water into the fuel pool in unit 4 (I think); as long as they can keep that under control, there shouldn't be too much more trouble. If the water truck doesn't do the job, they'll consider having the JSDF put a helicopter over it to spray water directly into the unit.


----------



## Tennobanzai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;12751034*
> NHK World Live now reporting GE is going to send diesel generators over to try to restart the cooling systems; this should make the job much easier.


I'm wondering why this wasn't done earlier. I would think they should have all the equipment in the world to their disposal by now


----------



## SgtSpike

6.4 msv (not sure the exact abbreviation) was recently detected...


----------



## XAslanX

Quote:



[3:07 a.m. ET Wednesday, 4:07 p.m. Wednesday in Tokyo] As a safety precaution, the Japanese government is now telling people living within a 10-kilometer radius of the Daini plant, the second nuclear power plant in ***ushima, to evacuate.

The Daini plant, which has four reactors, has reported fluctuating temperatures at its suppression pools. The Daini plant's reactors have been stopped, and there has been no radioactivity leakage so far.


http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/16...ch-more-areas/

PDF on the damage of the reactors http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_i...300252224P.pdf


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

They've scrapped the water truck plan due to radiation risks (400 millisV/hr reported) and are air-lifting water to the #1 plant now. Ugh...


----------



## aweir

Sorry, this is like a Kamikaze mission to me.


----------



## IKIKUINTHENUTZ

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Trigunflame*












Great.... some med dosage hitting LA/OC area


----------



## aweir

Is this with or without the MOX reactor in full meltdown?


----------



## FuNkDrSpOt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *IKIKUINTHENUTZ*


Great.... some med dosage hitting LA/OC area


So....S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: California?


----------



## Shredicus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *FuNkDrSpOt*


So....S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: California?


Dude I wish. I want to glow in the dark.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

They've now aborted the mission to release water from the helicopter and are sending another helicopter with instruments instead to monitor radiation above and around the plant. I think they're more confused than me right now...


----------



## Newbie2009

You have to feel for the japanese. As capable as they are the major disaster is just too much for any one nation to deal with.


----------



## Buzzin92

im not suprised that they are confused. Having a 9.0 mag earthquake equivilant to what? 450 Megaton bomb, 33ft Tsunami hitting 2 or 3 miles inland and nearly 300 aftershocks hitting anoth 5 to 7 mag since.


----------



## IKIKUINTHENUTZ

Quote:



Originally Posted by *FuNkDrSpOt*


So....S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: California?


I got my civilian status 3m dust mask ready

















and a CDV-700









BRING IT ONNN


----------



## mobius9

it appears that the simulation does not predict cali until friday


----------



## jthb3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mobius9*


it appears that the simulation does not predict cali until friday


sauce?


----------



## mobius9

gif on p193. looking at the date it's actually going into the future rather than progress that has happened so far. I guess you could say it touches on the 17th. I was just clarifying in case it wasn't clear to some people (such as myself) at first. To be honest I have no idea exactly what data it's displaying. I'm taking triguns word for it that it's radiation. I can't tell if it's accounting for anything other than density of a possibly particle cloud (time related radioactive decay)

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Trigunflame*


----------



## Blameless

Even if accurate (and it very well could be), that animation shouldn't worry anyone in the states.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Killam0n*


**** we can donate a nuclear carrier and park it outside of the plant and after its irradiated they can keep it for all I care- so long as its power is diverted to keeping the cooling systems going over there and radiation fallout off of US land.


Giving away, or even allowing to become irradiated, carriers that are worth upwards of 8 billion dollars (adjusted for inflation) to be used as a portable generator, when there are alternatives that could deliver the same amount of electricity at 1% of the cost is silly.


----------



## Killam0n

*One reactor core 'exposed to the atmosphere' through crack in containment wall*

The ***ushima Dai-ichi plant suffered a third reactor explosion last night, another reactor on the site caught fire - and officials today announced the wall of one reactor was cracked.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1Gl3Ds6qm

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blameless*


Giving away, or even allowing to become irradiated, carriers that are worth upwards of 8 billion dollars (adjusted for inflation) to be used as a portable generator, when there are alternatives that could deliver the same amount of electricity at 1% of the cost is silly.


sorry but I would spare no expense to prevent a nuclear catastrophe, 8billion dollars sounds like a fine investment to prevent japan, china, russia and the united states from potentially becoming irradiated.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Killam0n*


The ***ushima Dai-ichi plant suffered a third reactor explosion last night, another reactor on the site caught fire - and officials today announced the wall of one reactor was cracked.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1Gl3Ds6qm


Geez, man, look at the date of the article before assuming any new explosions: 
"Last updated at 7:10 PM on 15th March 2011"
That's precisely how misinformation and panic spreads.

There have been _*no new explosions*_.
Also, the article takes some crappy and very, VERY unlikely scenarios for granted, e.g. the part about a contamination breach were a full meltdown to occur.
It's a friggin' TABLOID. Use credible and accurate sources that provide official information without rewording it in a way that would only make everyone go "ONOZ WE DOOMED!11!1!!"

Also, nothing has officially been said about any cracks. Damage is feared, but the extent of the potential damage has not been confirmed.


----------



## Boyboyd

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Killam0n*


*One reactor core 'exposed to the atmosphere' through crack in containment wall*

The ***ushima Dai-ichi plant suffered a third reactor explosion last night, another reactor on the site caught fire - and officials today announced the wall of one reactor was cracked.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1Gl3Ds6qm

sorry but I would spare no expense to prevent a nuclear catastrophe, 8billion dollars sounds like a fine investment to prevent japan, china, russia and the united states from potentially becoming irradiated.


Please don't use the daily mail as a source. It's worse than fox news.


----------



## Killam0n

yep no issues every thing looks fine here..


----------



## Hyoketsu

Kyodo has just updated the status of the reactors. THERE IS NOTHING SAID ABOUT ANY CORES BEING EXPOSED TO AIR. Sure, it's possible, but your article is worded as if the core was exposed to friggin sunshine. Don't read friggin tabloids, mate. That's the worst source of information (besides granny gossip) you can find in a situation like this.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Killam0n*


yep no issues every thing looks fine here..


I'd be high tailing out of the area too.


----------



## FuNkDrSpOt

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shredicus*


Dude I wish. I want to glow in the dark.










It's all fun and games until your hair and teeth fall out.


----------



## Hyoketsu

The National Police Agency is considering using a special water cannon truck held by the Metropolitan Police Department to cool a pool storing spent fuel rods at the troubled No. 4 reactor at the ***ushima No. 1 nuclear power plant, police sources said Wednesday.

The operation could start as early as Wednesday night, they said.

==Kyodo

Since it's almost 9PM in Japan, that would imply the operation could start in several hours' time.


----------



## Norse

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu*


The National Police Agency is considering using a special water cannon truck held by the Metropolitan Police Department to cool a pool storing spent fuel rods at the troubled No. 4 reactor at the ***ushima No. 1 nuclear power plant, police sources said Wednesday.

The operation could start as early as Wednesday night, they said.

==Kyodo

Since it's almost 9PM in Japan, that would imply the operation could start in several hours' time.


so squirt water at it from a safe distance using trajectory to get it into it


----------



## Hyoketsu

Sweet!

BREAKING NEWS: No major damage to No. 3 reactor containment vessel at ***ushima No. 1 pla... - Kyodo


----------



## Boyboyd

You'd need something extremely powerful to damage the reactor containment vessel. How many meters of solid steel are they?


----------



## Wildcard36qs

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Boyboyd*


You'd need something extremely powerful to damage the reactor containment vessel. How many meters of solid steel are they?


Last I read, 6 inches thick, not meters.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Boyboyd*


You'd need something extremely powerful to damage the reactor containment vessel. How many meters of solid steel are they?


Meters of solid steel?

No.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wildcard36qs*


Last I read, 6 inches thick, not meters.


Sounds about right.


----------



## Boyboyd

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wildcard36qs*


Last I read, 6 inches thick, not meters.


maybe it's inches for steel, feet for concrete.

Also, the BBC are taking some of the information they've published on radiation directly from Wikipedia, word for word.


----------



## Boyboyd

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pict...d-tsunami.html


----------



## farmdve

The damage will probably be a lot of billions(in US Dollars)...i don't know how Japan will be able to get all those people new homes.


----------



## Hyoketsu

More problems, huh:

NEWS ADVISORY: Spent fuel pool at No. 3 reactor heated, emitting steam: nuke agency (22:27) - Kyodo

NEWS ADVISORY: Water injection into ponds at No. 3, No. 4 reactors priority: agency (22:32) - Kyodo


----------



## _GTech

You guys have to see these shocking videos of the Tsunami, like wow!

  
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-zfCBCq-8I&feature=player_embedded  



 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=LB0WdgkJyPs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=w3AdFjklR50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=foTw09FYviM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=JR3Cb4rk_B4

*The damages I see from some of these videos must be in the billions of dollars!*


----------



## Lampen

Hey everyone,

Sorry for my absence in the last 16 hours or so. My satellite uplink out here went out, but I'm back up and moving now. I'm looking across a lot of new information and I'll be updating the OP here within 30 minutes with all new, verified information and my analysis of the situation.

Again sorry for the delay,

Lampen


----------



## Krusher33

Quote:



Originally Posted by *_GTech*


You guys have to see these shocking videos of the Tsunami, like wow!


Just... wow. Extremely heart breaking.


----------



## willis888

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Norse*


so squirt water at it from a safe distance using trajectory to get it into it



That sounds messy. The water in those pools needs to stay in the pools. With all the seismic activity, pieces of fuel may have chipped off and become suspended in the water. Dropping buckets from a helicopter sounds even messier.


----------



## Hyoketsu

I just lold at reuters. There might be something to what they're posting, but the post about not having info made everything look simply ridiculous:

Breaking News: EU's Energy Commissioner says the situation at the Japanese reactor is "effectively out of control"

EU Energy Commissioner GÃ¼nther Oettinger: There could be catastrophic events within the coming hours

Oettinger's spokeswoman says he does not have any specific extra information on the situation in Japan.

(it interrupted an ongoing Q&A session)

"Dr. Danon, Dr. Caracappa, do you think the situation "is out of control"?"

"I cannot answer this question based on the information we have available."
"I don't think that I am in a position to judge that from where I am"

"Ok, Dr. Danon and Dr. Caracappa don't have enough information to know if the situation is out of control"

^ This is precisely why bigshot know-it-alls on the other side of the world should keep their mouths shut instead of spreading doom prophecies. There isn't enough friggin info to conclude anything at this point.

Update:
NEWS ADVISORY: Water cannon vehicle arrives at ***ushima No. 1 plant to cool No. 4 reactor (00:17) - Kyodo


----------



## Krusher33

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu*


I just lold at reuters. There might be something to what they're posting, but the last post looked simply ridiculous:

Breaking News: EU's Energy Commissioner says the situation at the Japanese reactor is "effectively out of control"

EU Energy Commissioner GÃ¼nther Oettinger: There could be catastrophic events within the coming hours

Oettinger's spokeswoman says he does not have any specific extra information on the situation in Japan.

(it interrupted an ongoing Q&A session)

"Dr. Danon, Dr. Caracappa, do you think the situation "is out of control"?"

"I cannot answer this question based on the information we have available."
"I don't think that I am in a position to judge that from where I am"

"Ok, Dr. Danon and Dr. Caracappa don't have enough information to know if the situation is out of control"

^ This is precisely why bigshot know-it-alls on the other side of the world should keep their mouths shut instead of spreading doom prophecies. There isn't enough friggin info to conclude anything at this point.


^ Agreed! Stupid idiots think they could do a better job in they were in the same situation. How do they know if they've never been in the situation before. And if they don't have all the information to make an assessment, SHUT UP!


----------



## SgtSpike

BBC News - Surprise 'critical' warning raises nuclear fears
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12762608

Quote:



So why is it that the Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco) has warned: "The possibility of re-criticality is not zero"?

If you are in any doubt as to what this means, it is that in the company's view, it is possible that enough fissile uranium is present in enough density to form a critical mass in the cooling pond - meaning that a nuclear fission reaction could start in the building, outside the containment shield that surrounds the actual reactor.


----------



## Lampen

OP Updated With New Information - More Editing to Follow In A Couple Hours

I don't usually post entire articles here, but I think people should read this entire article from the New York Times:

Several of the workers have likely been exposed to more than 250 mSv at this point so these people really are putting their lives on the line. I was watching CNN and BBC this morning and apparently many of the volunteers who have stayed are doing so because they've found out that their families were wiped out by the tsunami and literally have nothing to return to at this point.

Last Defense at Troubled Reactors: 50 Japanese Workers
By KEITH BRADSHER and HIROKO TABUCHI

A small crew of technicians, braving radiation and fire, became the only people remaining at the ***ushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station on Tuesday - and perhaps Japan's last chance of preventing a broader nuclear catastrophe.

They crawl through labyrinths of equipment in utter darkness pierced only by their flashlights, listening for periodic explosions as hydrogen gas escaping from crippled reactors ignites on contact with air.

They breathe through uncomfortable respirators or carry heavy oxygen tanks on their backs. They wear white, full-body jumpsuits with snug-fitting hoods that provide scant protection from the invisible radiation sleeting through their bodies.

They are the faceless 50, the unnamed operators who stayed behind. They have volunteered, or been assigned, to pump seawater on dangerously exposed nuclear fuel, already thought to be partly melting and spewing radioactive material, to prevent full meltdowns that could throw thousands of tons of radioactive dust high into the air and imperil millions of their compatriots.

The workers - and an increasing proportion of soldiers - struggled on Tuesday and Wednesday to keep hundreds of gallons of seawater a minute flowing through temporary fire pumps into the three stricken reactors, Nos. 1, 2 and 3. Among the many problems that officials acknowledged on Wednesday were what appeared to be yet another fire at the plant and indications that the containment vessel surrounding a reactor may have ruptured. That reactor, No. 3, appeared to be releasing radioactive steam.

The reactor's operator, Tokyo Electric Power Company, said it had been able to double the number of people at the plant to 100 as a result of falling radiation levels, but that was before the sudden release of radioactive vapor. It was not immediately clear how many of the workers and soldiers at the plant might have evacuated after that.

Those remaining are being asked to make escalating - and perhaps existential - sacrifices that so far are being only implicitly acknowledged: Japan's Health Ministry said Tuesday it was raising the legal limit on the amount of radiation to which each worker could be exposed, to 250 millisieverts from 100 millisieverts, five times the maximum exposure permitted for American nuclear plant workers.

The change means that workers can now remain on site longer, the ministry said. "It would be unthinkable to raise it further than that, considering the health of the workers," the health minister, Yoko Komiyama, said at a news conference. There was also a suggestion on Wednesday that more workers may be brought to help save the power station.

Tokyo Electric Power, the plant's operator, has said almost nothing at all about the workers, including how long a worker is expected to endure exposure.

The few details Tokyo Electric has made available paint a dire picture. Five workers have died since the quake and 22 more have been injured for various reasons, while two are missing. One worker was hospitalized after suddenly grasping his chest and finding himself unable to stand, and another needed treatment after receiving a blast of radiation near a damaged reactor. Eleven workers were injured in a hydrogen explosion at reactor No. 3.

Nuclear reactor operators say that their profession is typified by the same kind of esprit de corps found among firefighters and elite military units. Lunchroom conversations at reactors frequently turn to what operators would do in a severe emergency.

The consensus is always that they would warn their families to flee before staying at their posts to the end, said Michael Friedlander, a former senior operator at three American power plants for a total of 13 years.

"You're certainly worried about the health and safety of your family, but you have an obligation to stay at the facility," he said. "There is a sense of loyalty and camaraderie when you've trained with guys, you've done shifts with them for years."

Adding to this natural bonding, jobs in Japan confer identity, command loyalty and inspire a particularly fervent kind of dedication. Economic straits have chipped away at the hallowed idea of lifetime employment for many Japanese, but the workplace remains a potent source of community. Mr. Friedlander said that he had no doubt that in an identical accident in the United States, 50 volunteers could be found to stay behind after everyone else evacuated from an extremely hazardous environment. But Japanese are raised to believe that individuals sacrifice for the good of the group.

The reactor operators face extraordinary risks. Tokyo Electric evacuated 750 emergency staff members from the stricken plant on Tuesday, leaving only about 50, when radiation levels soared. By comparison, standard staffing levels at the three active General Electric reactors on the site would be 10 to 12 people apiece including supervisors - an indication that the small crew left behind is barely larger than the contingent on duty on a quiet day.

Daiichi is not synonymous with Chernobyl in terms of the severity of contamination. The Ukrainian reactor blew up and spewed huge amounts of radiation for 10 days in 1986. But workers at the plants have a bond.

Among plant employees and firefighters at Chernobyl, many volunteered to try to tame, and then entomb, the burning reactor - although it is not clear that all were told the truth about the risks. Within three months, 28 of them died from radiation exposure. At least 19 of them were killed by infections that resulted from having large areas of their skin burned off by radiation, according to a recent report by a United Nations scientific committee. And 106 others developed radiation sickness, with nausea, vomiting, diarrhea and dropping blood counts that left them highly vulnerable to infections.

The people who had suffered radiation sickness developed other problems later, according to the report: cataracts, severe scarring from the radiation burns to their skin and an increased number of deaths from leukemia and other blood cancers.

Some of those Chernobyl workers were exposed to levels of radiation far beyond what has been measured to date at Daiichi - especially helicopter pilots who flew through radiation-laden smoke spewing from the reactor to drop fire-extinguishing chemicals on it.

Radiation close to the reactors was reported to reach 400 millisieverts per hour on Tuesday after a blast inside reactor No. 2 and fire at reactor No. 4, but has since dropped back to as low as 0.6 millisieverts at the plant gate. Tokyo Electric and Japanese regulators have not released any statistics on radiation levels inside the containment buildings where engineers are desperately trying to fix electrical systems, pumps and other gear wrecked by Friday's earthquake and tsunami.

But nuclear experts said that indoor radiation levels were likely to be higher because the containment buildings were probably still preventing most radiation from leaving the plant.

The site is now so contaminated with radiation, experts say, that it has become difficult for employees to work near the reactors for extended periods of time. According to one expert's account of nuclear emergency procedures, workers would be cycled in and out of the worst-hit parts of the plant.

In some cases, when dealing with a task in a highly radioactive area of the plant, workers might line up and handle the task only for minutes at a time before passing off to the next worker, said Katsuhiko Ishibashi, a former professor in the Research Center for Urban Safety and Security at Kobe University.

Tokyo Electric has refused to release the names or any other information about the 50 workers who stayed behind, nor have utility executives said anything about how they are being relieved as they become tired or ill.

Some of those battling flames and spraying water at reactors at Daiichi are members of Japan's Self-Defense Force, police officers or firefighters.

Defense Minister Toshimi Kitazawa said Tuesday that Self-Defense Force soldiers might be called on to fly the helicopters Tokyo Electric may use to spray water onto the overheating used fuel storage pool at reactor No. 4. The same day, however, members of Japan's nuclear watchdog group, who had been stationed about three miles from the plant, were moved to a site 18 miles away. (The authorities later said that using helicopters to put spray water on reactor No. 4 might not be feasible.) If the plant operator is limiting the exposure of each worker at Daiichi - and calling on hundreds of volunteers to make up the 50 on site at any given time - then Chernobyl may offer some consolation.

To clean up the Chernobyl site after the accident, the Soviet Union conscripted workers in proportion to the size of each of its republics, and developed a system to limit their exposure.

"They sent up to 600,000 people in to clean up the radioactive debris around the plant and build a sarcophagus," said Dr. John Boice, an author of the study, a professor of medicine at Vanderbilt and the scientific director of the International Epidemiology Institute in Rockvillle, Md. The workers were sent into contaminated zones for limited periods.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

I was wondering how many if these 50 had lost there families. Truly sad in every since. These people staying are heroes.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

This below is very sad knowing your Family is all dead so you decide to stay behind. Try & fix the issues where you might die anyways from being exposed. I cant imagine what is going through the mind of the people who stayed.

*many of the volunteers who have stayed are doing so because they've found out that their families were wiped out by the tsunami and literally have nothing to return to at this point.*


----------



## black06g85

damn


----------



## Hyoketsu

U.S. to fly spy plane over ***ushima nuclear plant for closer look - Kyodo

Looks like some light might finally be shed on the situation in the ponds.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Im posting this cause the link above doesnt work so I figured I will just post what is on the Page itself
Quote:


> U.S. to fly spy plane over ***ushima nuclear plant for closer look
> 
> TOKYO, March 17, Kyodo
> 
> The U.S. military will operate a Global Hawk unmanned high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft over a stricken nuclear power plant in ***ushima Prefecture, possibly on Thursday, to take a closer look at its troubled reactors, a Japanese government source said Wednesday.
> 
> Photographs taken by the plane equipped with infrared sensors could provide a useful clue to what is occurring inside the reactor buildings, around which high-level radiation has been detected.
> 
> The planned mission comes as the Japanese government appears unable to contain the crisis days after the coastal nuclear plant was struck by a magnitude 9.0 earthquake and tsunami.
> 
> It would represent a deepening of Japanese-U.S. cooperation in coping with the escalating crisis, with the U.S. military having already provided logistical transportation, and search and rescue efforts in the wake of the disaster that hit northeastern Japan.
> 
> ==Kyodo


----------



## Hawk777th

http://www.targetmap.com/viewer.aspx?reportId=4870

Radiation levels.

State of plants and outcomes.
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/von%20havenstein/status%20update.jpg


----------



## aweir

I really wish people would stop calling these workers "heroes". They don't really have a choice. they would be ostracized by their peers and families if they abandoned their team and shamed out of the community.

they are not heroes. they are not brave. they are martyrs and they don't have a choice.


----------



## OcCam

I am suprised that there would be so much spent fuel at these locations given that counties with CANDU style reactors could reuse these spent rods for little more than shipping costs. AKA China and India. I should think the Japanese would have been more than happy to get rid of the spent fuel.

I'm just speculating tho.


----------



## mykah89

I was thinking the same thing, however i didnt want to bring any of that into this thread. Since you have already done so, i was thinking that like you said it would be viewed as bringing great shame on their culture and to their family if they didnt do all they could.

At the same time what they are doing is heroic, i just dont believe that they really have a choice in the matter.

Also hello from Buffalo.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12754380*
> I really wish people would stop calling these workers "heroes". They don't really have a choice. they would be ostracized by their peers and families if they abandoned their team and shamed out of the community.
> 
> they are not heroes.


----------



## Tennobanzai

You really think so? It's easy to say that behind a computer desk in a completely safe area. While on the other hand they are risking their lives for Japan and others. I guess with your mindset US troops in war are nothing but hard workers. If they die it was part of the job. Please rethink what you said.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12754380*
> I really wish people would stop calling these workers "heroes". They don't really have a choice. they would be ostracized by their peers and families if they abandoned their team and shamed out of the community.
> 
> they are not heroes. they are not brave. they are martyrs and they don't have a choice.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OcCam;12754419*
> I am suprised that there would be so much spent fuel at these locations given that counties with CANDU style reactors could reuse these spent rods for little more than shipping costs. AKA China and India. I should think the Japanese would have been more than happy to get rid of the spent fuel.
> 
> I'm just speculating tho.


If I understood it correctly, at least the fuel in #4 pool isn't actually spent, but was simply removed from the core for the period of the maintenance prior to the quake. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

@aweir - you're only speculating too. No one can truly know what's going on in other people's minds; especially now, in this sort of a situation.
And even if your assumptions were to be true, that doesn't diminish the significance of their work one bit.


----------



## arson2121

@ radiation level map of japan, i thought Grays measured the general dose received by a person, but Sieverts measured an equivalent dose depending on what part of the body was exposed and the type of radiation in question. so basically nGy doesn't give us much info for human equivalent dose and possible health effects... could anyone please clarify this?


----------



## Ocnewb

Don't know why people would post this kind of comment. If the workers aren't heroes then who would be one? They're risking their lives and long term health just for everyone else and greater good.
*Please read this article from France's news:*
Quote:


> *Japan's faceless heroes*
> A group of 50 Japanese workers have decided to stay behind at the ***ushima power plant, in a bid to prevent a massive radiation leak. Workers' names haven't been revealed but they are thought to be volunteers, firefighters and police officers. Prepared to risk their lives and face Japan's worst catastrophe in decades, the workers are seen as heroes.


They're *VOLUNTEERS*.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12754380*
> I really wish people would stop calling these workers "heroes". They don't really have a choice. they would be ostracized by their peers and families if they abandoned their team and shamed out of the community.
> 
> they are not heroes. they are not brave. they are martyrs and they don't have a choice.


----------



## Rising

Sometimes I truly hate the media. People like Alex Jones need to shut the hell up. Spreading more fear because they're attention whores. He said that Chernobyl was a walk in the park compared to this, on the radio. Is he truly this stupid?


----------



## 8-Ball

They are heroes.

They CHOSE to stay.

/issue


----------



## Tennobanzai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rising;12754877*
> Sometimes I truly hate the media. People like Alex Jones need to shut the hell up. Spreading more fear because they're attention whores. He said that Chernobyl was a walk in the park compared to this, on the radio. Is he truly this stupid?


I think most experts have said this incident does not have the potential to be anywhere near as bad as Chernobyl.

Offtopic but I can't believe the yen is actually getting stronger compared to the dollar in the past week. I know Japan is pumping in money but i'm still surprised. I guess this is a good thing.


----------



## Shredicus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tennobanzai;12754919*
> I think most experts have said this incident does not have the potential to be anywhere near as bad as Chernobyl.
> 
> Offtopic but I can't believe the yen is actually getting stronger compared to the dollar in the past week. I know Japan is pumping in money but i'm still surprised. I guess this is a good thing.


While catastrophic events cause economic loss initially, once the restructuring phase is underway there is almost always growth in the economy due to the number of people put to work rebuilding.


----------



## aweir

they chose to stay...
Quote:


> "You are the only ones who can resolve a crisis. Retreat is unthinkable," Japanese Prime Minister Naota Kan told them, according to the Financial Times.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/16/***ushima-50-stay-prevent-nuclear-meltdown/#ixzz1GmjIyGdF


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12755041*
> they chose to stay...
> 
> Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/16/***ushima-50-stay-prevent-nuclear-meltdown/#ixzz1GmjIyGdF


enough of your posts. thats like saying soldiers are not heroes simply because they cant say no. BS. These people could say no and walk away if they wanted. Stop trying to bring people down to your level so you can feel better about yourself.


----------



## Buzzin92

The idiots saying this is a chernobyl disaster are ******ed. The affected areas consisted of 300 Sieverts/hour. The ***ushima plant bearly breaks 500 MillieSieverts/hour (0.5Sievert)

to put into perspective, 10 Sievert/hour will kill

Edit, sorry i got the numbers mixed up, the Core of the reactor was 300 Sieverts/hour, the affected areas were 10 - 15 Sieverts/hour


----------



## ENTERPRISE

*Doing some cleaning as there are some inappropriate comments.
*
For the record though, these people whether they be employees or not are HEROES for staying at the reactors. They are pretty much laying there lives down to save part of the country. If they didnt it could lead to thousands of deaths, or at the very least very short lifespans in comparison. These people did not HAVE to stay, not even the employees. Heck I would not blame any one of them if they decided to go, the thought of being irradiated is not great !.

Have some respect !


----------



## Boyboyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzin92;12755157*
> The idiots saying this is a chernobyl disaster are ******ed. *The affected areas consisted of 300 Sieverts/hour*. The ***ushima plant bearly breaks 500 MillieSieverts/hour (0.5Sievert)
> 
> to put into perspective, 10 Sievert/hour will kill


Holy hell, i didn't know it was anything like that.


----------



## ENTERPRISE

*Also on a second note, while this is a tense thread in some ways, Please do not swear or use inappropriate language.*


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE;12755165*
> *Doing some cleaning as there are some inappropriate comments.
> *
> For the record though, these people whether they be employees or not are HEROES for staying at the reactors. They are pretty much laying there lives down to save part of the country. If they didnt it could lead to thousands of deaths, or at the very least very short lifespans in comparison. These people did not HAVE to stay, not even the employees. Heck I would not blame any one of them if they decided to go, the thought of being irradiated is not great !.
> 
> Have some respect !


^This, The bio robots were heroes too imo.


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boyboyd;12755200*
> Holy hell, i didn't know it was anything like that.


Sorry i got the numbers wrong, iv edited my post so i don't confuse anyone else.

The core of the reactor was 300 Sieverts/hour, The affected areas were 10 - 15 Sieverts/hour.

Again sorry for any confusion.

But still the ***ushima power plant is no where near these levels of Radiation.


----------



## Shredicus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eagle1337;12755226*
> ^This, The bio robots were heroes too imo.


I just watched some youtube documentary about the Bio Robots. Most of them died from heart attacks :|


----------



## Lampen

Useful new pictures:


















Reactor 1

Explosion on 12 March, ripped off roof.

Reactor 2

Explosion on 15 March, some internal damage, most likely source of radiation spike that day.

Reactor 3

Explosion on 14 March, roof damaged. Fears damage may have led to radiation spike on 16 March - although later reports said it was unclear what caused the leap in levels.

Reactor 4

Under maintenance at time of quake. At least two fires reported since.

Reactors 5 and 6

Under maintenance at time of quake. Fears overheating may lead to explosions.


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shredicus;12755282*
> I just watched some youtube documentary about the Bio Robots. Most of them died from heart attacks :|


Inside Chernobyl's Sarcophagus?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BBC;12755604*
> Our correspondent says there is also growing suspicion that the government and the Tokyo Electric Company (Tepco) are not telling the whole truth about the danger to the public. "We don't trust them," one young mother told him. "They want people to stay calm so they cover up the truth. We are all very afraid she said and we want to find a way to leave the country."


I think we all know that it's being downplayed, but if they were to fully say it chaos would break out; which in turn would make the recovery process much harder.


----------



## arson2121

at least they aren't holding a childrens' day parade outside like they did after chernobyl...


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;12755508*
> Useful new pictures:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reactor 1
> 
> Explosion on 12 March, ripped off roof.
> 
> Reactor 2
> 
> Explosion on 15 March, some internal damage, most likely source of radiation spike that day.
> 
> Reactor 3
> 
> Explosion on 14 March, roof damaged. Fears damage may have led to radiation spike on 16 March - although later reports said it was unclear what caused the leap in levels.
> 
> Reactor 4
> 
> Under maintenance at time of quake. At least two fires reported since.
> 
> Reactors 5 and 6
> 
> Under maintenance at time of quake. Fears overheating may lead to explosions.


Here's what I don't understand... how could the spent fuel rod pool have possibly survived the explosion in reactor #3?










Looking at the diagram, then looking back at the pictures, it seems as though the whole portion of the building that would be holding the spent rods is gone.


----------



## Tennobanzai

The diagram doesn't accurately show the building maybe. If you look at the real life photos theres buildings with the reactor "towers" on top of it.


----------



## Hawk777th

Then men who are working to fix this at the plants are HERO'S NO QUESTION!

Ya if the diagram is close the rods are vaporized. Alot of news sources are reporting that they did indeed go with the explosion.


----------



## Ocnewb

From BBC live feeds:
Quote:


> 1900: Mr Jackzo said the high radiation levels would make it very difficult for workers to get near the reactor. "The doses they could experience would potentially be lethal doses in a very short period of time," he said, but added that the NRC's information on the situation was "very limited".
> 
> 1859: More from NRC chair Gregory Jaczko. He told Congress: "We believe that secondary containment has been destroyed and there is no water in the spent fuel pool and we believe that radiation levels are extremely high which could possibly impact the ability to take corrective measures."
> 
> 1837: Gregory Jaczko, head of the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) has said there is no water left in the spent fuel pool in reactor four, adding: "We believe that radiation levels are extremely high." Mr Jaczko was speaking to Congress in Washington and it was not immediately clear where his information had come from.


----------



## Tunapiano

Closer image of the 3rd and 4rth reactors of the ***ushima Dai-ichi power plant.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ocnewb;12756163*
> From BBC live feeds:


do you have the link for that feed?


----------



## Ocnewb

Right here: Link. It's updated automatically so you don't need to refresh.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blue Destroyer;12756185*
> do you have the link for that feed?


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ocnewb;12756234*
> Right here: Link. It's updated automatically so you don't need to refresh.


thanks


----------



## _GTech

Looks like there are going to be some after effects to this whole situation in Japan..

Nuclear Meltdown in Japan Could Make Major Impact in America

Please do not discuss this article in this discussion, thank you! It was only provided as information, nothing more!


----------



## AdvanSuper

Quote:


> As ***ushima reaches a tipping point, more reports are coming in, which question how unpreventable this was. The earthquake and tsunami helped fuel this fire, but according to the Christian Science Monitor, the Japanese government and the plant owners are now being accused of cutting safety corners.


REALLY??? Yeah lets play the blame game.


----------



## arson2121

i like how they keep saying "this is the first time since world war 2 that japan has recorded so many victims from a natural disaster"... so nuclear bombs are a "natural disaster"?


----------



## koven

Excellent thread, don't forget to rep OP if you haven't already!


----------



## Red Rabbit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arson2121;12756852*
> i like how they keep saying "this is the first time since world war 2 that japan has recorded so many victims from a natural disaster"... so nuclear bombs are a "natural disaster"?


I think they meant to say "nuclear disaster".


----------



## arson2121

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Red Rabbit;12757205*
> I think they meant to say "nuclear disaster".


they talk about number of deaths due to the earthquake/tsunami, so i'm not so sure.


----------



## Lampen

OP timeline updated. I will be updating the status of each reactor and general status of the ***ushima Daiichi power plant later this evening once new information is released. It's becoming rather lengthy and difficult for people to determine what's happened lately.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

You could use the spoiler feature to separate past events from current events; it would make it much easier to read. If you'd like I can work spoilers in for you.


----------



## AdvanSuper

I'd consolidate the older news into newer posts and provide just the links in the OP to those posts.


----------



## Red Rabbit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;12757421*
> You could use the spoiler feature to separate past events from current events; it would make it much easier to read. If you'd like I can work spoilers in for you.


I like this idea.


----------



## SgtSpike

It's basically impossible to find potassium iodide for sale in the states now. Here's to hoping we won't need it...


----------



## CyberWolf575

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;12757421*
> You could use the spoiler feature to separate past events from current events; it would make it much easier to read. If you'd like I can work spoilers in for you.


Chimp i think that would be amazing if you did that for the OP, it would help him a lot with this huge thread he's been keeping up. Thank you for the offer, im sure it will make the job for the OP a lot easier.


----------



## slipstream808

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;12758008*
> It's basically impossible to find potassium iodide for sale in the states now. Here's to hoping we won't need it...


Crap. I'm gonna have to get it off of scalpers aren't I?


----------



## Dirtyworks

Quote:


> As ***ushima reaches a tipping point, more reports are coming in, which question *how unpreventable this was*. The earthquake and tsunami helped fuel this fire, but according to the *Christian Science Monitor*, the Japanese government and the plant owners are now being accused of cutting safety corners.


Wherever this came from, I lol @ it & whomever believes it. Ultimate fear mongering right there.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;12758008*
> It's basically impossible to find potassium iodide for sale in the states now. Here's to hoping we won't need it...


It is laughable that iodide tabs are out of stock in the US. Truly laughable. Folks in the US suffer irrational panic at the hands of the media far too easily.


----------



## gdansk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skripka;12758139*
> It is laughable that iodide tabs are out of stock in the US. Truly laughable. Folks in *most countries* suffer irrational panic at the hands of the media far too easily.


True, but fixed.


----------



## Skaterboydale

I have to admit I fell into the trap and bought one of these, I thought for £20 can't be too safe


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skripka;12758139*
> It is laughable that iodide tabs are out of stock in the US. Truly laughable. Folks in the US suffer irrational panic at the hands of the media far too easily.


True, its sad how the media has such control of some folk


----------



## Double Helix

It's really hard to keep track of what's going on. I hope it's coming to a close soon :\


----------



## Buzzin92

Anybody else heard that reactors 5 and 6 are getting warmer than normal? even though they were reported to be in cold shutdown


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skripka;12758139*
> It is laughable that iodide tabs are out of stock in the US. Truly laughable. Folks in the US suffer irrational panic at the hands of the media far too easily.


Why is it laughable to be prepared? It's very unlikely that we will see radiation in the US from anything happening in Japan, but it's not impossible.


----------



## cbr600

I have not seen this reported anywhere other then my newspaper. I guess there getting close to where they can get power back to the plant if so 5-6 will never have a problem as cooling will get back. Just hope that some how 1,2,3,4 can still be cooled by there pumps.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2014506913_apasjapanearthquake.html

But we will see it may do nothing to help.


----------



## slipstream808

Pretty much everyone says that we wont get radiation here in the US because there wont be an explosion like Chernobyl. While there might be one, it would not be that bad. More than anything I keep hearing about the next few days being beyond pivotal and that worst case scenario a large chunk of Japan becomes uninhabitable.

Its funny in a way. No one I know talks about this. No one I know cares. If there is any panic its just people online it seems. Its all a world away.


----------



## arson2121

GE is getting gas turbine generators over there for power, so contained cores can be cooled. problem will be the ones where the outside shell is cracked and the water may be leaking...


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;12758366*
> Why is it laughable to be prepared? It's very unlikely that we will see radiation in the US from anything happening in Japan, but it's not impossible.


It's way past laughable - it's actually sad. The bull-fed droves aren't buying them in buttloads "just in case", but are actually convinced that a layer of green radioactive goo will cover at least half the world.
Might be a slight exaggeration, but it is more than likely to be true.

Someone needs to add compulsory classes about nuclear safety to the curriculum of every school or, at the very least, all the colleges/universities.
I know, that ain't happening, but a man can dream, can't he?

P.S. Try looking up "potassium iodide" in ebay - stuff's either sold out, has numerous bids or is expensive like hell.

LOL, found a "Radiation Emergency Tablet Family Pack" for $2,5k(bid) $5k(buy it now)








Even if I added all the different facepalm.jpg images floating around the internet to this post, it wouldn't be nearly enough.


----------



## cbr600

As for GE sending the generators maybe two late now where was this 3 days ago why did japan not ask for more help 3 days ago. Seems like everyone just waited to long seems out of control now.


----------



## Tennobanzai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;12758008*
> It's basically impossible to find potassium iodide for sale in the states now. Here's to hoping we won't need it...


Have u been checking every pharmacy in your area?


----------



## SilverPotato

I had friends and family planning to visit Japan, I'm so glad they waited a few weeks before going, no need to add to the death toll. So sad D:


----------



## _GTech

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k7H6lj7xuI&feature=player_detailpage"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k7H6lj7xuI&feature=player_detailpage[/ame</a>]

DJIA - Stock Market









Nasdaq Composite Index


----------



## MisterMalv

Quote:


> why did japan not ask for more help 3 days ago


We are talking about the nuclear industry here, VERY secretive all around the world. They won't admit to major problems until it's too late.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

They DID ask for help, that's why we provided the water truck for unit 4 (they went back and got protective gear for workers and drove it to the plant).


----------



## arson2121

all i've heard has been germany bringing down 7 of their 17 plants (all 7 being built before 1980) until further review.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12758635*
> It's way past laughable - it's actually sad. The bull-fed droves aren't buying them in buttloads "just in case", but are actually convinced that a layer of green radioactive goo will cover at least half the world.
> Might be a slight exaggeration, but it is more than likely to be true.
> 
> Someone needs to add compulsory classes about nuclear safety to the curriculum of every school or, at the very least, all the colleges/universities.
> I know, that ain't happening, but a man can dream, can't he?
> 
> P.S. Try looking up "potassium iodide" in ebay - stuff's either sold out, has numerous bids or is expensive like hell.
> 
> LOL, found a "Radiation Emergency Tablet Family Pack" for $2,5k(bid) $5k(buy it now)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even if I added all the different facepalm.jpg images floating around the internet to this post, it wouldn't be nearly enough.


Well, to each his own. Personally, I'd rather be prepared for even the slightest risk that something could go horribly wrong here. I couldn't care less why other people are buying it (you can make fun of the reasoning you make up in your head all you want) - I'd rather be safe than sorry.


----------



## omega17

Ignoring speculation of any radiation from ***ushima making the 6000 mile journey across the Pacific...

Not sure if anyone's posted this link, but it's from Google's Japan help page and it is the NISA press releases as they happen, in PDF form. Handy to keep an eye on the info being distributed...

http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/index.html


----------



## Flack88

Does anybody know what will happen when these depleted fuel dumps dry out? Fission of some type im guessin. This seems inevatable by they way they are growing more and more desperate.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Waffleboy;12747513*
> I have a question Damric, about what you said about the Boiling Water Reactors. Even if the name does not accurately describe how the reactor functions, isn't that still a term used for a specific type of reactor? I'm not an expert by any means, but I've been hearing the term for years.


Yeah it's quite the misnomer. The secondary "steam plant side" is quite similar to that of a coal or oil fed steam plant. That's where there is a boiler. It's called the steam generator, and the primary loop from the reactor flows through the bottom, although it is isolated, to exchange heat with the secondary water.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blue Destroyer;12747614*
> Don't mean to be an asshat, but why should we reject every expert, even the head of the us nuclear power group. Damric has posted some useful info but for him to say what he just did is crazy. I highly doubt the best nuclear power specialist don't know what they are talking about. Dare I say they may be even more informed than damric so we SHOULD listen to what they say..whether someone on here beleives it or not..30 or 40 specialists all saying the same thing should hold a little more weight than 1 person on overclock.net


I appreciate your skepticism. Trust no one, especially those who speak out on commercially-paid-for news organizations.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88;12747857*
> Theres a hell of a lot of dense white smoke comming out of the reactor atm.


White: class A fire, typical combustibles like cloth, wood, paper, lagging. Electrical components sometimes have a white smoke as well, and sometimes blue. Most smoke coming from the fires on site will be white.

Black: class B fire, oils, tires, plastics. These are pretty common fires in the engineering spaces so you may also see lots of black smoke as well.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r_stanley;12750051*
> Gah, this thread is both good and bad.
> 
> I work in nuclear power and have a couple points.
> 
> First, please try and get your info from here: http://nei.cachefly.net/newsandevents/information-on-the-japanese-earthquake-and-reactors-in-that-region/
> 
> NEI won't be filled with all the fanfare and dramatics of outlet media sources.
> 
> Next does Damric work in nuclear power now? Most navy nukes do when they get out. If so he can get into some serious trouble with his employer since ALL companies that own and operate nukes in the US have issued orders for their employees to NOT speculate or discuss these matters to the media, on the web, or any other type of public outlet.
> 
> While your work on this thread is much appreciated, a lot of what you have is pure speculation. It's good that you have the updates and such. It's your sources that may be...shall we say skewed.


I'm not working in nuclear power at the moment. I won't disclose any proprietary or classified information such as operating specifics and the like. I'm glad I'm not on a gag order so I can at least inform people on facts. Luckily things like physics are unclassified and I can talk about how stuff works all day long about the matter.

Now for my next lesson in radiation: _shielding_. See my next post.


----------



## [-Snake-]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;12759200*
> Well, to each his own. Personally, I'd rather be prepared for even the slightest risk that something could go horribly wrong here. I couldn't care less why other people are buying it (you can make fun of the reasoning you make up in your head all you want) - I'd rather be safe than sorry.


Agreed. Why take such a chance when things are just getting worse and worse over in Japan. Is it really that silly to have some preparation for the worst outcome? It's almost like people here are lying to themselves by sticking their heads in the sand, hoping for the best outcome.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88;12759338*
> Does anybody know what will happen when these depleted fuel dumps dry out? Fission of some type im guessin. This seems inevatable by they way they are growing more and more desperate.


They get hotter, can start a fire, and since the water partial absorbs fission under normal circumstances, they can become supercritical again if not properly submerged. I also read that the spent fuel pools contain about 2x as much fissionable material as the current reactor fuel, indicating that all of that material burning would actually be much worse than the reactor core itself burning.

Just saw this on BBC... apparently, Reactor #4's spent fuel pool is completely dry now. I would bet #3 is nearly in the same predicament, considering the extent of the explosion there.
Quote:


> The Guardian reports that Greg Jaczko, the chairman of the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission, was pressed on his assertion in Congress earlier that there was no water remaining in reactor 4's spent fuel storage pool, which was subsequently denied by Japanese officials. He told reporters: "The information I have is coming from staff people in Tokyo who are interfacing with their Japanese counterparts. I've confirmed that their information is reliable." Mr Jaczko nevertheless added: "It is my great hope that the information is not accurate."


----------



## Hawk777th

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[-Snake-];12759428*
> Agreed. Why take such a chance when things are just getting worse and worse over in Japan. Is it really that silly to have some preparation for the worst outcome? It's almost like people here are lying to themselves by sticking their heads in the sand, hoping for the best outcome.


Couldn't agree more!

And yes I read my article I posted. People are asking for more radiation detectors and the same line is being used that there's no risk lol. Precautionary if there's no risk lol then why add them at all it would be a non issue.

The state of Alaska is considering adding additional radiation monitors in rural areas as a precautionary measure as federal nuclear officials continue to monitor Japan's failing ***ushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

State and federal officials continued to emphasize that they did not expect harmful radiation from Japan to reach North America, including Alaska.


----------



## SgtSpike

I think the biggest reason that people are getting all panicky about this here in the states is that they KNOW they wouldn't be able to find potassium iodide anywhere if something did go horribly wrong. The government only has 50 million pills... that's enough for the west coast for one day. The more that the iodide is out of stock, the more panicky people are going to be about it.


----------



## omega17

It's *not* silly to be prepared.

It *is* silly to take unprescribed unnecessary drugs which have their own adverse side effects, based on pure speculation

Update that a short press-conference with Greg Jaczko aired on NHK, BBC and CNN, in which he confirmed that his officials on the ground in Japan have confirmed that #4 spent fuel pool has boiled dry. Although when questionned about the ramifications of this, once again he stated that he hoped this was incorrent, and no details have been revealed as to what it means, which again leads to speculation that he'd rather we didn't know the answer at this time.

My understanding is that uncovered (uncooled) fuel could continue to heat up, and become disrupted; once that happens, a fire could transport the particulate materials into the atmosphere outside the reactor building. I don't _think_ that old spent fuel can heat enough to melt itself [depending on it's age], but I may be corrected.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;12759200*
> Well, to each his own. Personally, I'd rather be prepared for even the slightest risk that something could go horribly wrong here. I couldn't care less why other people are buying it (you can make fun of the reasoning you make up in your head all you want) - I'd rather be safe than sorry.


Oh, I have nothing against "better safe than sorry", you're completely right in this regard. However, the fact remains, that people's fear is being preyed upon; the cause of the fear being poor understanding and misinformation. And the saddest thing of all is that those misinformed types do not even try to doubt the validity of the information and look for credible sources. I'm currently seeing a perfect example of that in the forum of one of my country's torrent sites. At first glance it seems everyone's posting info from BBC/Reuters, but then you start to notice something amiss. The info is horribly translated/misinterpreted by local broadcasters, the people are swallowing everything up without a shred of doubt, re-posting it and speculating based off it (mostly doomsday prophecies); add a couple of blithering idiots (aka trolls) to this mixture and you'll get a recipe for utter chaos. We actually have an RBMK-type NPP (decommissioned a few years ago). I'm filled with dread as I try to imagine what would the "discussions" look like if something was happening here.
That's why I ~quarter-jokingly suggested compulsory nuclear education (Nuclear Education... it even SOUNDS awesome!







). People need to know about such things.
/endrant

On topic: any news from NHK (is it even streaming live at this time)? I can't stream at the moment and other news sources are silent.


----------



## Hawk777th

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omega17;12759591*
> It's *not* silly to be prepared.
> 
> It *is* silly to take unprescribed unnecessary drugs which have their own adverse side effects, based on pure speculation
> 
> Update that a short press-conference with Greg Jaczko aired on NHK, BBC and CNN, in which he confirmed that his officials on the ground in Japan have confirmed that #4 spent fuel pool has boiled dry. Although when questionned about the ramifications of this, once again though he stated that he hoped this was incorrent, and no details have been revealed as to what it means, which again leads to speculation that he'd rather we didn't know the answer at this time.
> 
> My understanding is that uncovered (uncooled) fuel could continue to heat up, and become disrupted; once that happens, a fire could transport the particulate materials into the atmosphere outside the reactor building. I don't _think_ that old spent fuel can heat enough to melt itself [depending on it's age], but I may be corrected.


Potassium iodide isnt a drug. And it has no side effects other than if you have thyroid problems. And if you have thyroid problems you shouldn't be talking Iodine anyways because it stimulates the thyroid. Shoot that was like biology in 6th grade.

Its like saying milk has side effects. Only if your lactose intolerant lol.

I dont understand why in this thread people keep taking sides? I mean if some people want to get PI here in the US thats great and if not that's great too. Ya of course people are going to freak out over events like these, they are life changing and world events. Ya the people pushing PI right now are making money who cares, that's why its called a free market!

Thats why when we buy crappy video games we know were out the money. We made a bad choice lol its no ones job to save us from ourselves. Or to call everyone an idiot that buys a crappy game due to hype.


----------



## Ryanb213

this thread is sad.. in a bad way


----------



## Krymore

Did you see where they are saying that the next solution may involve nuclear plant workers having to take heroic acts. Asked to be more specific, Robert Alvarez, senior scholar at the Institute for Policy Studies said, "This is a situation where people may be called in to sacrifice their lives. ... It's very difficult for me to contemplate that but it's, it may have reached that point."

These men will be heroes and I will be forever grateful if they have to do this. I am by no means a religious man, but I pray for these workers and there family's.


----------



## omega17

It's a drug. It's used to treat medical problems in the thyroid, it has an effect on a function in the body.

The trouble with your analogy is that people generally know when they're lactose intolerent. People rushing to buy KI (not PI) won't necessarily know if they're sensitive to Iodine


----------



## arson2121

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hawk777th;12759624*
> Potassium iodide isnt a drug. And it has no side effects other than if you have thyroid problems.


please stop while you're behind...

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/potassium-iodide-side-effects.html


----------



## Krymore

People trying to out run the tsunami. Warning this might be disturbing to some people.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2011/03/16/seg.nr.race.survival.video.cnn?hpt=C2


----------



## Hawk777th

Thats a synthetic compound of it. It can be made with out things like chlorine in it to oxidize it. Thats just how most of the cheap companies make it unfortunately. It can be had with out all the crap in it but you have to pay big bucks for it.

Not to mention that stupid side effects page is all liquid.

Acne; diarrhea; loss of appetite; nausea; upset stomach; vomiting. I had worse with food poisoning. And if there is ever a radiation threat youll be glad to trade that for cancer.


----------



## arson2121

living in colorado you're more exposed to radon than anything that could possibly make its way over from the ***ushima reactors. as for the "liquid page"... you really think there's a big difference between KI disolved in a liquid vs solid in a pill that is disolved in your stomach anyways?

i'm really surprised CNN played that clip...


----------



## Hyoketsu

NEWS ADVISORY: Self-Defense Forces chopper monitoring radiation levels above nuke reactor (09:29) - Kyodo

Eagerly awaiting results~
Would be neat if it were safe enough to conduct heli watercooling...


----------



## damric

Shielding: how it works.

Nuclear fission spews forth lots of radiation. Fast neutrons, thermal neutrons, gamma rays, beta particles (electrons), positrons (anti-electrons), alpha particles (helium nucleus), fission products, and other subatomic particles and energy. Some of these things can hurt you under the right circumstances. Most radiation can be greatly reduced with the appropriate shielding.

Shielding is measured in tenth-thickness. A tenth thickness is the amount of shielding you need to reduce the level of radiation to 10%. Example: two tenth-thicknesses would reduce radiation coming from a source to 1% (a tenth of a tenth).

Fission products: these are usually poisonous heavy metals, that may be radioactive or stable, and may be ionized. These are really only a problem in a nuclear bomb, as these contaminate the whole area as fallout. Luckily they *cannot penetrate your skin* so you can wash them off with soap and water. Don't eat them and you should be fine. Right now the workers at the Japanese plants need to wear anti-contamination suits to keep any of these fission products from hurting them. The general public need not worry about these as they won't enter the atmosphere in any significant amount beyond the first level of containment. Alpha particles are pretty much the same thing, and only cause problems if ingested. *They can be blocked by a piece of paper*.

Neutrons: These come in Fast, and the slow moving variety called Thermal. Fast neutrons generally pass through the body without causing any harm, as long as they come in small quantities. When they slow down is when they can hurt the body by ionizing cells as they pass around the body. Luckily they are effectively shielded by water, but it takes quite a bit. The tenth thickness for water is 12" (if I recall correctly). *This means that almost all neutrons never leave the reactor compartment, as it is a huge pressurized water system.*

Electrons and Positrons: these tiny particles could burn you since they can slightly penetrate your skin. Luckily they are so reactive that they are caught in other reactions before they get very far. Absolutely *no risk* unless you ingested a beta-emitting cookie.

Gamma Radiation (photons): Ok this is the bad one. Gamma radiation is naturally comes from the visible and invisible light coming from the sun. Most of the really bad gamma rays are blocked by our magnetic belt and our atmosphere, but some still makes it to earth to give you a sunburn. Every wonder why the X-ray technician hides in a little room while giving you an x-ray? These pass right through your body, and depending on the gamma's energy levels it could cause a few ionizations to damage cells along the way. *Luckily metal makes a very effective shield against gamma's.* Lead has a 2" tenth-thickness, and steel has a 4" tenth thickness. An theres is literally tons of steel surrounding the reactor core. This is why it is safe for radiation workers. Unfortunately, when there is a partial meltdown, you end up with some nasty radioactive gases like Nitrogen that emit gammas. The good thing is that they have an extremely short half-life. *This means that they will detect high radiation levels around the plant when pressure needs to be vented, but significantly less within a short distance, and barely above background levels once you are outside the immediate vicinity.*


----------



## Hawk777th

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12759919*
> NEWS ADVISORY: Self-Defense Forces chopper monitoring radiation levels above nuke reactor (09:29) - Kyodo
> 
> Eagerly awaiting results~
> Would be neat if it were safe enough to conduct heli watercooling...


Hope thats the case!

@ Arson I agree man not making a case for or against. Just making the point, better prepared for the worst and hope for the best then the other way around!


----------



## arson2121

damric:

what are the containment vessels made from in the case of these reactors? i thought in case of neutrons (i think it was neutrons...) if they collide with something dense like lead it can actually cause a chain reaction which would increase the number of neutrons coming out the other side? so if the water is gone from inside the containment vessel due to a leak, there is possibility for higher neutron radiation? not sure if that's right, asking for some clarification.


----------



## Vlasov_581

they just sprayed water on no. 3 reactor......also trying to listen to that lady is giving me a headache


----------



## arson2121

how effective is that water spray? if they aren't successful with powerful pumps, just dumping even 7 tons of water (half of which probably misses anyway) might not work well enough...


----------



## Hyoketsu

Sweet, that should mean the radiation levels really have dropped (Japan nuclear agency says radioactivity levels continue to decline at ***ushima nuclear plant - Reuters, 20 minutes ago).

Gonna hit the sack for now. Hoping for some good news in the morning~


----------



## damric

Quote:



Originally Posted by *arson2121*


damric:

what are the containment vessels made from in the case of these reactors? i thought in case of neutrons (i think it was neutrons...) if they collide with something dense like lead it can actually cause a chain reaction which would increase the number of neutrons coming out the other side? so if the water is gone from inside the containment vessel due to a leak, there is possibility for higher neutron radiation? not sure if that's right, asking for some clarification.


Steel, layers of lead, plastics (also shields neutrons), water, and concrete. Fast neutrons bounce off lead and steel like ping pong balls, and eventually get thermalized by the water, then get absorbed by control rods and the boron poison which they added. The water is not gone. They can pump seawater into the reactor using firepumps if necessary. But yes, in theory if all the water boiled off you could get some nice neutron irradiation if you went beyond the first level of containment and into the reactor compartment to immitate Spock in _Star Trek 2: the Wrath of Khan_.


----------



## sLowEnd

The water drop didn't look like a very effective method of water delivery to me.

It looked like it dispersed a lot before touching the building.


----------



## damric

Quote:



Originally Posted by *arson2121*


how effective is that water spray? if they aren't successful with powerful pumps, just dumping even 7 tons of water (half of which probably misses anyway) might not work well enough...


They are probably using that to fight fires. Engineering fires are scary.


----------



## Digigami

Darmic, quick question regarding the exposed spent fuel in the cooling pools. If reports are correct that the fuel is no longer submerged in water, and according to anything I have seen there is no other kind of shielding over the spent fuel pools, would these just continue to heat and eventually melt, while releasing radiation, or is there any way there could be more violent reactions that start to occur as the temps climb? Is there any way this fuel could get hot enough to kick start a nuclear reaction at all? Since there are no control rods or any other isolation in place in these pools, if the fuel melts and combines at the base of the pool could that start a full on runaway/meltdown?

Also just to note, since the #4 reactor was shut down just days before the quake, I have heard a few unconfirmed reports the fuel which was taken out and placed in the cooling pond is not completely spent fuel, which they had planned on re-installing to the reactor when they were to recommission it.

Any thoughts about this?


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Digigami;12760219*
> Darmic, quick question regarding the exposed spent fuel in the cooling pools. If reports are correct that the fuel is no longer submerged in water, and according to anything I have seen there is no other kind of shielding over the spent fuel pools, would these just continue to heat and eventually melt, while releasing radiation, or is there any way there could be more violent reactions that start to occur as the temps climb? Is there any way this fuel could get hot enough to kick start a nuclear reaction at all? Since there are no control rods or any other isolation in place in these pools, if the fuel melts and combines at the base of the pool could that start a full on runaway/meltdown?
> 
> Also just to note, since the #4 reactor was shut down just days before the quake, I have heard a few unconfirmed reports the fuel which was taken out and placed in the cooling pond is not completely spent fuel, which they had planned on re-installing to the reactor when they were to recommission it.
> 
> Any thoughts about this?


This is where my knowledge is extremely limited because my ship used the same fuel plates for 25 years before needing a refueling. From the quick research I did, storage of spent fuel varies from plant to plant. So, I really have no idea what containment they use in these plants for this spent fuel. What I can tell you is that spent fuel IS radioactive, and does have some decay heat. This decay heat becomes less significant with age. When they decay enough that they are not generating a significant amount of heat, they get encased in cement, and apparently stored on site. Fuel plates are also loaded with poisons (they help shape neutron flux), and it doesn't pose any concern of causing a fission chain reaction due to the totally mixed bag of decay products. But while it decays, it emits radiation, so I wouldn't try eating one, or keeping it in your house.

The last statement about some partially spent fuel...that could be bad. Surely they have it stored in proper containment. They wouldn't keep it in water alone, as water is the catalyst for thermal fission.


----------



## Waffleboy

From what I've read and understand, there's more shielding but it was probably damaged in the fire, partially exposing the fuel.


----------



## HowHardCanItBe

my god...those men are brave


----------



## Vlasov_581

what is the maximum amount of time the rods can be left exposed before irrepable damage occurs?


----------



## SOCOM_HERO

I think that it is seriously a good idea to evacuate more of the area, just my opinion. The US is making the right move there and with the use of Global Hawk...that's just badass. That thing is gonna shed some light on those reactors.


----------



## paulerxx

What kind of radiation is coming out of the reactors compared to yesterday?


----------



## 8-Ball

Anyone post this yet?

Japan nuclear plant: Just 48 hours to avoid 'another Chernobyl'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8387051/Japan-nuclear-plant-Just-48-hours-to-avoid-another-Chernobyl.html


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8-Ball;12760926*
> Anyone post this yet?
> 
> Japan nuclear plant: Just 48 hours to avoid 'another Chernobyl'
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8387051/Japan-nuclear-plant-Just-48-hours-to-avoid-another-Chernobyl.html


*sigh* Im sorry to burst the telegraph's bubble, but this is not going to be anywhere near a chernobyl disaster... Its a totally different situation for a start. ***ushima is from overheating/meltdown. Chernobyl was from overload and an explosion exposing the core and spreading parts of graphite all over the damn place.

Edit: When the heck did any of the volounteers die or go missing? did i miss something??


----------



## arson2121

^ BS to say the least


----------



## Buzzin92

You calling my post BS?


----------



## arson2121

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzin92;12761090*
> You calling my post BS?


yes... i am...

no lol, the article.


----------



## Buzzin92

heh lol, sorry. Just didnt quite know if you meant to point to mypost or the article before.


----------



## damric

Quote:



Originally Posted by *8-Ball*


Anyone post this yet?

Japan nuclear plant: Just 48 hours to avoid 'another Chernobyl'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...Chernobyl.html


This is a sad but accurate example of the misinformation spread by media hoping to make a dollar by scaring the naive.


----------



## Vlasov_581

oh my god i want to punch that translator


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *damric*


This is a sad but accurate example of the misinformation spread by media hoping to make a dollar by scaring the naive.


I just want to know where they are getting their sources from, its just complete nonsense.

Yes the public may/will believe this but im far from a nuclear engineer and i know whats bs and whats not.


----------



## arson2121

@ vlasov, which 1? they switch so much...


----------



## AdvanSuper

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vlasov_581*


oh my god i want to punch that translator


Seriously... What the hell happened to the other translators... I've wanted to kill this lady all day... She's more confusing than anything....

Quote:



Originally Posted by *arson2121*


@ vlasov, which 1? they switch so much...


The one on now who pauses every 5 seconds.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Digigami;12760219*
> Is there any way this fuel could get hot enough to kick start a nuclear reaction at all?


Nuclear decay is happening irrespective of temperature.

If you mean an atomic explosion, that's just not possible with the material in the fuel.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vlasov_581;12760542*
> what is the maximum amount of time the rods can be left exposed before irrepable damage occurs?


What kind of irreparable damage are you talking about?

The reactors are write offs. If they get the situation under control, I suspect they will have to tear everything apart, reprocess all the fuel, and rebuild the reactors completely, if they even intend to use the site to produce power anymore. It's all partially melted and throughly contaminated.

If you mean how long can they stay exposed before cracking open or melting and releasing their contents, I have no idea, but I wouldn't imagine it would take long.


----------



## Tunapiano

This is a Panoramic Photo put together that shows the devastation in Kesennuma, Japan

Source


----------



## Vlasov_581

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blameless*


If you mean how long can they stay exposed before cracking open or melting and releasing their contents, I have no idea, but I wouldn't imagine it would take long.


yeah that's what i meant







.......also this helicopter water dumping idea was a waste of resources.......what they effectively did is take a water hose to an overheating engine with a broken waterpump


----------



## Skripka

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SgtSpike*


Why is it laughable to be prepared? It's very unlikely that we will see radiation in the US from anything happening in Japan, but it's not impossible.


Because the odds of you getting in a car crash are orders of magnitude larger than any amount of fallout coming to the US and being that significant.

REMEMBER- Iodine-131, what iodide tabs are for has a half life of about a week. Any release of iodine from Japan would first be MASSIVELY diluted from travelling 1/2way around the world....and even assuming some did-by the time it got here it would probably already have gone through a 1/2 life...Heck, any I-131 at the reactors already nearly gone through 1 half life by now anyway. I might also add that to do ANY good whatsoever, regular doses of iodide are needed daily.

Buying iodide tabs in the US is not "being prepared". It is the stereotypical US uninformed, uneducated, fear-based knee-jerk reaction that people have to something they don't understand. That "contractors" and corporations love for making a quick buck off people.


----------



## 8-Ball

That panoramic pic is just wow...


----------



## Digigami

Quote:



Originally Posted by *damric*


This is where my knowledge is extremely limited because my ship used the same fuel plates for 25 years before needing a refueling. From the quick research I did, storage of spent fuel varies from plant to plant. So, I really have no idea what containment they use in these plants for this spent fuel. What I can tell you is that spent fuel IS radioactive, and does have some decay heat. This decay heat becomes less significant with age. When they decay enough that they are not generating a significant amount of heat, they get encased in cement, and apparently stored on site. Fuel plates are also loaded with poisons (they help shape neutron flux), and it doesn't pose any concern of causing a fission chain reaction due to the totally mixed bag of decay products. But while it decays, it emits radiation, so I wouldn't try eating one, or keeping it in your house.

The last statement about some partially spent fuel...that could be bad. Surely they have it stored in proper containment. They wouldn't keep it in water alone, as water is the catalyst for thermal fission.


Fair enough, thank you for your thoughts.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blameless*


Nuclear decay is happening irrespective of temperature.

If you mean an atomic explosion, that's just not possible with the material in the fuel.


No, not necessarily an explosion. Just the same fission rocess it undergoes during normal use in the reactor, but now in a relatively unprotected or shielded location, without any means of normal control; what is the end result? Just becoming a super hot molten puddle radiating energy until it is fully decayed or can it elevate to any more critial point beyond that?


----------



## Skripka

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Digigami*


Fair enough, thank you for your thoughts.

No, not necessarily an explosion. Just the same process it undergoes during normal use in the reactor, but now in a relatively unprotected or shielded location, without any means of normal control; what is the end result? Just becoming a super hot molten puddle radiating energy forever or can it elevate to any more critial point beyond that?


It could reach criticality, there's a *chance*. That depends on the density of the fuel. I won't say it is impossible-because 2 weeks ago, no one seriously entertained the idea of 4 relatively modern reactors all suffering complete coolant pump failure and partial melt.

In the dungeons of Chernobyl beneath the Nr4 reactor, robots went and fount puddles of molten concrete/fuel/moderator/steel that looked like like lava flows.


----------



## Digigami

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skripka*


It could reach criticality, there's a *chance*. That depends on the density of the fuel. I won't say it is impossible-because 2 weeks ago, no one seriously entertained the idea of 4 relatively modern reactors all suffering complete coolant pump failure and partial melt.

In the dungeons of Chernobyl beneath the Nr4 reactor, robots went and fount puddles of molten concrete/fuel/moderator/steel that looked like like lava flows.


I could be mistaken, but Chernobyl utilized enriched uranium, whereas these do not. Which is why I'm still uncertain of what an uncontrolled reaction would look like or do.

*Edit* - Perhaps I do have that backwards?

Quote:



U.S. REACTORS versus CHERNOBYL-TYPE REACTORS1

From the foregoing discussion, we see that two of the principal options for reactor design are:
Uranium fuel enriched to 3% in U-235 surrounded by water moderator; this is the option used in all U.S. power reactors.
Natural (or slightly enriched) uranium surrounded by graphite moderator; this is the option used in Chernobyl-type reactors.


http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~blc/book/chapter7.html


----------



## arson2121

pretty sure chernobyl used u-238 as the primary fuel while these are using u-235... u-238 is the primary fuel for nuclear bombs i think.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Digigami*


Just the same fission rocess it undergoes during normal use in the reactor, but now in a relatively unprotected or shielded location, without any means of normal control; what is the end result? Just becoming a super hot molten puddle radiating energy until it is fully decayed or can it elevate to any more critial point beyond that?


It could potentially heat up to the point it melts into the ground and contaminates the soil/water, or it could boil off into a cloud of radioactive gas/particles, or both.

An actual criticality incident (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticality_accident) is extremely unlikely and a nuclear detonation is as impossible as impossible gets.

However, boiling reactor fuel and contaminated waste vaporising into the air is still really bad, obviously.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

TEPCO just said during their press conference that the spent fuel pool at unit 4 DOES have water, but they don't know how much and thus don't know how much fuel is exposed if it is.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:



Originally Posted by *arson2121*


pretty sure chernobyl used u-238 as the primary fuel while these are using u-235... u-238 is the primary fuel for nuclear bombs i think.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Digigami*


I could be mistaken, but Chernobyl utilized enriched uranium, whereas these do not. Which is why I'm still uncertain of what an uncontrolled reaction would look like or do.


Chernobyl used low enrinched Uranium...although it could also use natural Uranium IIRC.

These critters use MOX....which is a handy way of getting rid of excess weapons grade material.


----------



## Playapplepie

I read on yahoo that the power line that is supposed to restore power to the cooling pumps is almost finished.


----------



## Digigami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skripka;12761715*
> Chernobyl used low enrinched Uranium...although it could also use natural Uranium IIRC.
> 
> These critters use MOX....which is a handy way of getting rid of excess weapons grade material.


Yeah I edited my post, pretty sure I had it backwards.

I think reactor #3 is the only MOX reactor, but who knows if theres any depleted plutonium in the cooling pond housed in the #4 shack.


----------



## kenolak

I've refrained from posting here for a while.

I typed out almost an essa but never mind apparently.
Cheers to the well being of Japan.


----------



## OcCam

U-238 is largest portion in Natural Uranium, Enrichment of natural uranium is used to bring up the U-235 level from under 1% to 5-7% for reactors and up to 95% for weapons grade material.


----------



## Vlasov_581

omg 60,000+ chickens will be killed


----------



## sLowEnd

NHK says there's a bird flu outbreak too...yikes...


----------



## arson2121

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OcCam;12762021*
> U-238 is largest portion in Natural Uranium, Enrichment of natural uranium is used to bring up the U-235 level from under 1% to 5-7% for reactors and up to 95% for weapons grade material.


thanks for the clarification.


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Playapplepie;12761756*
> I read on yahoo that the power line that is supposed to restore power to the cooling pumps is almost finished.


I read about that as well. That will be a great turn of events to get some proper flowing coolant in there. Hopefully the people who stayed behind didn't receive to much radiation. Granted it was never going to be anything like the people who worked at Chernobyl but it still definitely won't have been good for them in the long run.


----------



## AdvanSuper

Any other live feeds besides these?

http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv43483520?from=lv43386411

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698


----------



## 4LC4PON3

Can anyone Confirm if this is true or false. I just came across this on 9news. Japan is goign to get a second Quake (7.9). I dont follow the news on who is fake or not so. Im sorry if this is bogus

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8223781/Japan-braces-for-second-earthquake


----------



## Ulver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4LC4PON3;12762976*
> Can anyone Confirm if this is true or false. I just came across this on 9news. Japan is goign to get a second Quake (7.9). I dont follow the news on who is fake or not so. Im sorry if this is bogus
> 
> http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8223781/Japan-braces-for-second-earthquake


True-ish.
I live here and the news are, since last saturday that we should expect another earthquake above magnitude 7 with 70% probability until the 16th and afterward the probability falls to 50% (until when there is any prediction is unclear from news broadcasts here).


----------



## Ulver

By the way, rad is currently (as of 13:00 Japan time) around 87 milisieverts/hour at 300 feet above the power plant (altitude from where Japan's SDF is throwing water with helicopters to try cooling down reactor 3). 
That is something like 322.000 times higher than the average annual exposure to natural background rad (2,4 milisievert/year) converted to milisievert/hour. http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78838.html

Even though, it diminishes very fast with distance (same spot at 1000 feet had only 4.13 milisieverts/hour) so people in north Japan (like me on Hokkaido island) have basically nothing to fear, and people in Hawai'i or US really don't need to worry.









Also, at the gate of the plant (ground level) simultaneous measurements got only 3 milisieverts/hour, which is still more than 11.000 times more than the natural background rad (again corrected for hour instead of year).

Although those numbers are high, nobody will really be exposed for such a long time (like a full day or a year) to these levels, unless they decide to move to the reactor itself.


----------



## molino

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AdvanSuper*


Any other live feeds besides these?

http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv434...rom=lv43386411

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698


http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv

Quote:



Originally Posted by *4LC4PON3*


Can anyone Confirm if this is true or false. I just came across this on 9news. Japan is goign to get a second Quake (7.9). I dont follow the news on who is fake or not so. Im sorry if this is bogus

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/822...ond-earthquake


http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquak...quakes_all.php


----------



## AdvanSuper

Lol that's the same thing as my first link.


----------



## strap624

6.1 Thats quite a big aftershock, damn.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Morning, folks~
Quoting reuters for some kicks:
"Japan trade minister says unexpected, large-scale blackout possible in Tokyo, surrounding areas in evening if power demand exceeds that of this morning"
How would this be "unexpected" if he's already briefing people about it?








A possible mis-TL?

Anyway, any estimate on those coolant pumps coming into operation?

@Ulver: How's the situation in Hokkaido from your perspective, mate? How are you and the others holding up?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu*


Anyway, any estimate on those coolant pumps coming into operation?


None yet, but they are trying to get a tertiary AC power line connected to the cooling systems to restart them; if that doesn't work they'll just ride it out until GE's diesel generators arrive.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


None yet, but they are trying to get a tertiary AC power line connected to the cooling systems to restart them; if that doesn't work they'll just ride it out until GE's diesel generators arrive.


Oh, I see. Seeing some proper cooling restored would be like a breath of fresh air. Having several cooling systems active instead of the last-resort seawater pumps and heli watercooling should greatly reduce the mental strain put on the workers as well - it's always reassuring to have several safety layers in place.


----------



## shoot2thrill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *strap624;12763379*
> 6.1 Thats quite a big aftershock, damn.


http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_big.php

7.9 was their biggest aftershock according to this. The amount of plate movement over there is unbelievable.


----------



## A-E-I-Owned-You

Japobyl :/


----------



## PriceEddie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *A-E-I-Owned-You;12764066*
> Japobyl :/


Not quite. You could say that the media is over reacting (pun intended).... more so than ***ushima NPP in fact!









Eddie.


----------



## robchaos

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78892.html

14 patients die after being moved in accordance with evacuation directives.

http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_images/pdf/ENGNEWS01_1300350525P.pdf
update of the plants condition


----------



## farmdve

Something is very off here. An Earthquake, Tsunami, Volcano eruption, bird flu... It's as if someone wants to wipe Japan off.
And now patients from hospital die..


----------



## snoball

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farmdve;12764445*
> Something is very off here. An Earthquake, Tsunami, Volcano eruption, bird flu... It's as if someone wants to wipe Japan off.
> And now patients from hospital die..


Just unlucky


----------



## farmdve

Oh wait, i forgot to add that there are problems with the reactors....
So 5 disasters happened...


----------



## Zcypot

soo much happening over there I cant keep up :'(


----------



## Krymore

One of the workers at the ***ushima nuclear plant was keeping a blog about workers now battling to prevent a meltdown at the facility. It has been translated into english.

Please read this as the author wants every one to know how hard these men are working (risking there own lives to stop this.

http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Asia/Story/STIStory_646210.html


----------



## strap624

Those aftershocks are no joke, I wouldn't even call them aftershocks @ 7.9! My best wishes go out to everyone over there. This is unbelievable.


----------



## Lefty67

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farmdve;12764445*
> Something is very off here. An Earthquake, Tsunami, Volcano eruption, bird flu... It's as if someone wants to wipe Japan off.
> And now patients from hospital die..


Sickness always happens after disasters. Look at Haiti


----------



## finalturismo

So what do you think of the people that think this is smaller than Chernobyl still?


----------



## Zen00

This is why we need to up the ante on the space program, and go colonize Mars. Any volunteers? I know I'm going first chance!

(not that I think nuclear is unsafe or anything, just that I want to leave behind all the idiots to wallow in their trash)


----------



## nigel

the last I herd were they were trying to reroute power back to the nuclear power plants ..the first one to be hucked up would be reactor number (2)
and that was on CNN.

but I do fell really sorry for them...it just seems to be all going wrong.


----------



## Zen00

Thanks,

Now I should say, my contact in Japan says that there's not nearly the level of danger that is being reported. She says that its all media hype, and I'm content to believe her, who is actually there, to some of the people posting here.


----------



## Zen00

Apparently President Obama will be speaking at 3:30 PM Eastern about Japan.


----------



## arson2121

link to these reports about sailors being exposed to months worth of radiation?


----------



## Blue Destroyer

LINK

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/world/asia/14plume.html


----------



## gammite

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arson2121;12767670*
> link to these reports about sailors being exposed to months worth of radiation?


from the new york times.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/world/asia/14plume.html?_r=2
Quote:


> 11:20pm PT: Likely more directly related to the previous explosion, than this new one, but the New York Times is reporting that U.S. troops headed to Japan to help out may have been dosed with some radioactivity from the troubled nuke plants in Japan...
> 
> *The Pentagon was expected to announce that the aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan, which is sailing in the Pacific, passed through a radioactive cloud from stricken nuclear reactors in Japan, causing crew members on deck to receive a month's worth of radiation in about an hour, government officials said Sunday.*
> The officials added that American helicopters flying missions about 60 miles north of the damaged reactors became coated with particulate radiation that had to be washed off.
> 
> There was no indication that any of the military personnel had experienced ill effects from the exposure. (Everyone is exposed to a small amount of natural background radiation.)
> 
> But the episodes showed that the prevailing winds were picking up radioactive material from crippled reactors in northeastern Japan.
> ...
> Blogs were churning with alarm. But officials insisted that unless the quake-damaged nuclear plants deteriorated into full meltdown, any radiation that reached the United States would be too weak to do any harm.
> 
> The rest of the piece goes on to discuss U.S. monitoring of radiation clouds which could drift eastward towards the United States.


----------



## arson2121

oh, you guys are talking about the reports from sunday/monday when they were trying to vent the vapor from the cores that has short-lived radioactive isotopes in it... yup...


----------



## Blue Destroyer

someone else brought it up. i was just correcting them. they said it wasnt dangerous..most would have to disagree


----------



## damric

I'm sorry I need to recant one thing I told you all. Apparently the fuel is in rods, not thin plates like I thought. minus 10 reps for me ~


----------



## Heavy Light 117

Anyone know how big of an area was covered by the Chernobyl disaster?


----------



## gammite

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy Light 117;12768216*
> Anyone know how big of an area was covered by the Chernobyl disaster?


most of eastern europe saw some form of radiation from chernobyl.


----------



## arson2121

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy Light 117;12768216*
> Anyone know how big of an area was covered by the Chernobyl disaster?


do you want the area of the exclusion zone, the area of the I-131 cloud, the area of increased radiation beyond background thought to be caused by the accident, area where people received such high doses of radiation that many died of radiation sickness, area of increased cancer rate, or ?


----------



## AdvanSuper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric;12768199*
> I'm sorry I need to recant one thing I told you all. Apparently the fuel is in rods, not thin plates like I thought. minus 10 reps for me ~


Does that change anything?


----------



## Citra

If only folding @ home somehow helped them create a way to solve the problem of the nuclear reactors...


----------



## Heavy Light 117

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arson2121;12768233*
> do you want the area of the exclusion zone, the area of the I-131 cloud, the area of increased radiation beyond background thought to be caused by the accident, area where people received such high doses of radiation that many died of radiation sickness, area of increased cancer rate, or ?


the latter


----------



## arson2121

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Citra;12768325*
> If only folding @ home somehow helped them create a way to solve the problem of the nuclear reactors...


discover protein mutation that makes humans immune to the effects of radiation?


----------



## Officer Farva

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *damric;12768199*
> I'm sorry I need to recant one thing I told you all. Apparently the fuel is in rods, not thin plates like I thought. minus 10 reps for me ~


The zirconium rods do not shield radiation so they might as well be "thin plates" if there is not anything else to provide protection (which would be containment vessels in the reactors and about 20 feet of water in the spent fuel pools).

That is why the pools being empty of water is a worst case scenario, there's nothing to shield the radiation coming from the decaying fuel and obviously nothing to keep the rods cool.


----------



## Hyoketsu

@gammite
Alright, not all water from the helies reached the destination. However, water cannons and fire trucks were being used as well. Heck, *the rising vapour confirms that the cooling attempt was effective to some point* - Kyodo. Why has nobody mentioned that yet?
Anyway, don't only highlight things that support your pessimistic views, please. There's enough material to support optimistic standpoints as well.
The newspaper/broadcaster articles are always reworded and their neutrality is veeeeery disputable. Mention the word "crisis" a few times, add several "frantic efforts", a ridiculous comparison or two, an "it is believed the radiation level is extremely high" (though no definite numbers) and you'll have a recipe for fear bordering on panic (aka one of the best environments for the mass media to work under). The last thing the world needs is more fearmongering speculations. While definite information is in scant supply and that could really be a stone in TEPCO's yard, at this point neither doom prophecies nor, of course, dismissal of the situation are the correct standpoints (heck, they never are!). The best thing to do in such a situation is to be objective when considering every news story that comes your way and keep an open mind about things. And while you're doing that, don't forget to have some friggin HOPE, for Overclocking's sake


----------



## Citra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arson2121;12768357*
> discover protein mutation that makes humans immune to the effects of radiation?


Nah, something more of the likes of testing different ways of cooling down the reactors.


----------



## dafour

Hmm it just keeps getting worse,i really feel sorry now for them.
Those people trying to cool down the plants are the heroes now,a bit like the Bio-Robot's from '86...
2011 is a bad year in mankind imo.


----------



## ChickenInferno

Just to add a scientific note to some of the conversations here (and I am sure this had been said in the 22 pages of this thread), it doesn't matter how much radiation you see in a year compared to anything.

Doing 10mS/day*365days is acctually irrelevant and misleading as Arson2121 and several others have done.

Exposure to radiation is reported and should be reported as (S/unit time). Taking away the time factor skews the results and makes them uncomparable. If I say I was exposed to 500,000mS/min for 1 minute, then a doctor would say "My God! You're going to die," but if I just say I was exposed to 500,000mS, then it doesn't mean anything because it could have been small doses over my entire life.

tl;dr: keep the units on radiation exposure as S/time becuase otherwise it doesn't mean anything.

Acute exposure causes damage not small exposure.


----------



## arson2121

that article is all over the place. it mentions dry storage, then wet storage, then storage specifically in each reactor... fear monger more man. sure if all the storage failed for all 10k+tons of spent fuel it would be catastrophic, we're talking small amounts here that are actually in danger compared to all the on site storage.


----------



## arson2121

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChickenInferno;12768475*
> Just to add a scientific note to some of the conversations here (and I am sure this had been said in the 22 pages of this thread), it doesn't matter how much radiation you see in a year compared to anything.
> 
> Doing 10mS/day*365days is acctually irrelevant and misleading as Arson2121 and several others have done.
> 
> Exposure to radiation is reported and should be reported as (S/unit time). Taking away the time factor skews the results and makes them uncomparable. If I say I was exposed to 500,000mS/min for 1 minute, then a doctor would say "My God! You're going to die," but if I just say I was exposed to 500,000mS, then it doesn't mean anything because it could have been small doses over my entire life.
> 
> tl;dr: keep the units on radiation exposure as S/time becuase otherwise it doesn't mean anything.
> 
> Acute exposure causes damage not small exposure.


actually i always had a time unit in mine. i specifically said during a cross-country flight (assuming about 8-10 hours)... then i did it vs an annual dose. i don't know the specifics about the actual nuclear reaction/engineering like demric does but please don't start arguing quantifying human exposure with me... also, if you're exposed to 500,000 mSv over any amount of time during your life, sorry bud, you're screwed.

also, prolonged exposure to small quantities hasn't really been studied well enough, due to various difficulties in establishing a proper cohort, to determine potential health risks. the point you brought up is actually one that's been bothering me about the news reports. they keep saying mSv, uSv, etc, but no one was giving the obviously missing /hr factor. one guy on NHK actually brought it up, but no one really payed attention to it lol.


----------



## damric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdvanSuper;12768251*
> Does that change anything?


not really.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *finalturismo;12766641*
> So what do you think of the people that think this is smaller than Chernobyl still?


The single fact that none of the reactors have exploded instantly makes it smaller than Chernobyl.

Throw in the additional fact that it's been several days as compared to 30 seconds which everything took place - you have no argument.

No one says the situation isn't bad, but not even remotely close to Chernobyl by a long shot. The people in Chernobyl and the surrounding areas were screwed before they could even finish supper.


----------



## AdvanSuper

Obama just debunked anything reaching us.


----------



## AdvanSuper

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=2n&tag=watchnow


----------



## X-Nine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heavy Light 117;12768216*
> Anyone know how big of an area was covered by the Chernobyl disaster?


Roughly 1500KM were contaminated, and upwards of 500KM north of the reactor site.

This, of course, is because of the actual explosion from the reactors, and not just because of a leak. A 30KM radius from the site is the "exclusion zone" in which is uninhabitable.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Between myself and ENTERPRISE this thread has been re-cleaned. Comparing this event to Chernobyl at this point is not fair and is only fearmongering; that is, if you tried to say this is as bad as that was.


----------



## AdvanSuper

Thank you CC!


----------



## X-Nine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;12769147*
> Between myself and ENTERPRISE this thread has been re-cleaned. Comparing this event to Chernobyl at this point is not fair and is only fearmongering; that is, if you tried to say this is as bad as that was.


I wish I could send you some Rep. Stupid stupid mod position!









I hope neither you nor Enterprise took my post a couple above as trying to say that the disaster at ***ushima is anything like Chernobyl, I was just answering someone's question.


----------



## IzorkX

This is bad.. But not as bad as chernobyl, but it is really bad, no doubt.. hope they get it sorted..

We will see huuuuge economy crisis around the world if they do melt..Already now theres crap going on in the economy. A meltdown would be very sad.


----------



## strap624

SO what did the Obaminator say?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IzorkX;12769566*
> This is bad.. But not as bad as chernobyl, but it is really bad, no doubt.. hope they get it sorted..
> 
> We will see huuuuge economy crisis around the world if they do melt..Already now theres crap going on in the economy. A meltdown would be very sad.


A meltdown to the extent that you are thinking is not possible at this point and has been discussed.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdvanSuper;12768978*
> Obama just debunked anything reaching us.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdvanSuper;12768985*
> http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=2n&tag=watchnow


Can someone summarize the video, or is there a transcript? I can't watch video - at work atm.


----------



## [-Snake-]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdvanSuper;12768978*
> Obama just debunked anything reaching us.


The last thing the Govt. would want is a mass panic.

I would take anything they say with a grain of salt but do whatever makes you feel better.


----------



## arson2121

i posted, but i guess it was a bit rough around the edges and taken down by mods.

basically obama said that we are supporting japan as much as we can and are going to ensure recovery. radiation will not reach any US shore (alaska, hawaii, lower 48, any other US owned lands).


----------



## strap624

This is turning into a political situation very quickly it seems. The US government it much more concerned about the situation that they are leading us to believe, not because of environmental risks, but more specifically economic risks.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Reposting maps that were just posted by a... certain member (started to get reports about the user name so had to trash the post):


----------



## ChickenInferno

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arson2121;12768539*
> actually i always had a time unit in mine. i specifically said during a cross-country flight (assuming about 8-10 hours)... then i did it vs an annual dose. i don't know the specifics about the actual nuclear reaction/engineering like demric does but please don't start arguing quantifying human exposure with me... also, if you're exposed to 500,000 mSv over any amount of time during your life, sorry bud, you're screwed.
> 
> also, prolonged exposure to small quantities hasn't really been studied well enough, due to various difficulties in establishing a proper cohort, to determine potential health risks. the point you brought up is actually one that's been bothering me about the news reports. they keep saying mSv, uSv, etc, but no one was giving the obviously missing /hr factor. one guy on NHK actually brought it up, but no one really payed attention to it lol.


Your post was deleted in the cleaning but you specifically stated that each person recieves ~3572mS every year. Yes technically you are stating 3572mS/year, but this logic of comparing 3572mS to the exposure given in a day or a week just simply isn't valid. It is extremely misleading to say see 200mS isn't actually that much because we get 3600mS in a year. I'm being facetious in my slight oversimplification of your statement, but saying a number per year is by itself misleading to the general public who doesn't think of how the units really work. It's always been an issue of mine to simplify units or to compare quantities when the units aren't the same. 9.7mS/day vs. 200mS/min (I'm simplifiying to a 1min exposure) is an effective rate of 288,000mS/day. (200ms/min *60min/hr*24hr/day=288,000). No, they weren't exposed to 288,000mS and no they weren't exposed for a full day, but it finally gives a real hint at the level of radiation they actually recieved. The effective rate of radiation is much more important than the actual dose. Like I had stated with my 500,000mS example: 500,000mS is normal for a person that lives for 136 years. My example is a little high, but it is still valid.

What's really scary (and I am not saying that this is Chernobyl-like, because at this stage it isn't) is that the effective rate of radiation is 29,690x higher (288,000/9.7) than standard for a 1 minute exposure. If the exposure to the individual was longer than 1 minute, then the effective exposure is much lower.

I didn't mean to specifically offend you and thinking back you did state per hour, I just didn't see it when I was looking for the last person that gave mS rather than a mS/time.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;12769774*
> Reposting maps that were just posted by a... certain member (started to get reports about the user name so had to trash the post):


thanks.


----------



## IzorkX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *strap624;12769570*
> SO what did the Obaminator say?
> 
> A meltdown to the extent that you are thinking is not possible at this point and has been discussed.


So what you're saying is taht the fuel rods can't melt? okay, great. I must've heard wrong in all these news aight


----------



## arson2121

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChickenInferno;12769787*
> Your post was deleted in the cleaning but you specifically stated that each person recieves ~3572mS every year. Yes technically you are stating 3572mS/year, but this logic of comparing 3572mS to the exposure given in a day or a week just simply isn't valid. It is extremely misleading to say see 200mS isn't actually that much because we get 3600mS in a year. I'm being facetious in my slight oversimplification of your statement, but saying a number per year is by itself misleading to the general public who doesn't think of how the units really work. It's always been an issue of mine to simplify units or to compare quantities when the units aren't the same. 9.7mS/day vs. 200mS/min (I'm simplifiying to a 1min exposure) is an effective rate of 288,000mS/day. (200ms/min *60min/hr*24hr/day=288,000). No, they weren't exposed to 288,000mS and no they weren't exposed for a full day, but it finally gives a real hint at the level of radiation they actually recieved. The effective rate of radiation is much more important than the actual dose. Like I had stated with my 500,000mS example: 500,000mS is normal for a person that lives for 136 years. My example is a little high, but it is still valid.
> 
> What's really scary (and I am not saying that this is Chernobyl-like, because at this stage it isn't) is that the effective rate of radiation is 29,690x higher (288,000/9.7) than standard for a 1 minute exposure. If the exposure to the individual was longer than 1 minute, then the effective exposure is much lower.
> 
> I didn't mean to specifically offend you and thinking back you did state per hour, I just didn't see it when I was looking for the last person that gave mS rather than a mS/time.


it's all good, you just specifically brought up my name haha.

i agree with you that stating 3572 mSv/year can be a bit generic, but that part was meant to be taken as a general average. so break it down that over the course of the year you are receiving approximately even dose/unit time. what i was trying to compare it to was the low amount of "abnormal" radiation found on the man's coat mentioned in one of the articles of 1 uSv/hr. if you bring it to the annual equivalent dose, then sure this is approximately double what a regular person would be exposed to per average hour during that year, but i was trying to point out that it's really low when you consider what a person flying at high altitude is exposed to and not really abnormal.

you do scare me with that 500k figure though. the average annual dose for a person is 6 mSv, or 600 mSv per hundred years. if you are exposed to 500k mSv... i'm scared lol.

correct me if i'm misunderstanding any of your points here. oh, and a 200 mSv/min dose is insanely high haha, not going to argue that... i think you might be confusing mSv with mRem btw. 1 mSv = 100 mRem


----------



## X-Nine

Quote:



Originally Posted by *IzorkX*


So what you're saying is taht the fuel rods can't melt? okay, great. I must've heard wrong in all these news aight


No. You're thinking of a complete and total melt down, which at this point isn't possible as a lot of the fuel rods have already been cooled. Some may (or have already) melted, but they won't melt on a grand scale.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XNine;12770490*
> No. You're thinking of a complete and total melt down, which at this point isn't possible as a lot of the fuel rods have already been cooled. Some may (or have already) melted, but they won't melt on a grand scale.


Back last week there was little room to doubt that at least one core suffered a partial melt. The only way cesium gets into the coolant and steam vented is if there's a melt to some degree.


----------



## xXjay247Xx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XNine;12770490*
> No. You're thinking of a complete and total melt down, *which at this point isn't possible as a lot of the fuel rods have already been cooled*. Some may (or have already) melted, but they won't melt on a grand scale.


No offence, but where did you get this information from? no one knows the situation on what's exactly going on inside the reactor, there have been loads of different reports going around, the fact they had helicopters trying to drop water on the reactors is worrying to say the least, and if you look at the videos, most of the water missed, because the wind drifted it away, I have seen no reports on rectors 1-4 being cooled efficiently, the only reactors that currently have "Efficient cooling" is 5 and 6, and even if they are being "efficiently cooled" the pressure inside the reactors are fluctuating.


----------



## scyy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xXjay247Xx*


No offence, but where did you get this information from? no one knows the situation on what's exactly going on inside the reactor, there have been loads of different reports going around, the fact they had helicopters trying to drop water on the reactors is worrying to say the least, and if you look at the videos, most of the water missed, because the wind drifted it away, I have seen no reports on rectors 1-4 being cooled efficiently, the only reactors that currently have "Efficient cooling" is 5 and 6, and even if they are being "efficiently cooled" the pressure inside the reactors are fluctuating.


The helicopters are just one of the several ways they are trying to cool them down. No it isn't nearly as efficient as the proper coolant system but it's not like they are trying to cool a running reactor like this, they are dealing with decay heat. On top of that with power just about brought back to the coolant systems that will be the end of any real danger.


----------



## Dirtyworks

They might have got more water inside if they used water bombers, as the water would be moving and the wind would have less control of its direction. 
However, now that I think about it, the speed at which a large amount of water would be travelling out of a plane would probably break stuff.. Nevermind lol


----------



## Hyoketsu

Some good news:
NEWS ADVISORY: Radiation slightly down around reactor since water discharge (07:45) - Kyodo


----------



## willis888

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skripka*


Back last week there was little room to doubt that at least one core suffered a partial melt. The only way cesium gets into the coolant and steam vented is if there's a melt to some degree.



Or through mechanical breakage. The earthquakes shook them and little pieces may have chipped off.

Some melting has been confirmed though:

Quote:



Seventy percent of the fuel rods in Unit 1 and one-third in Unit 2 have been damaged


Nuclear Energy Institute


----------



## Tunapiano

Panoramic view of Sendai Airport devastation.

Source

Aerial view.


----------



## SgtSpike

Giant water balloons? Would be epic to watch at least...


----------



## weidass

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SgtSpike*


Giant water balloons? Would be epic to watch at least...










Would probably be more effective too. But where the hell do you get a 5 ton water balloon?


----------



## Heavy Light 117

You Tube


----------



## Flack88

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Heavy Light 117*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg1ngMKAdL4


USA Epic'nes at its best?

What a load of crap.....People are dying every day in Japan and all that this is....Is a 'Look at the USA we are so great'

No I dont hate the USA its just this stuff REALY ANNOYS ME! Why not make a video about the 50+ people in the NPP who have probably given their lives to save Japan?


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Pretty cool video


----------



## Tennobanzai

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Flack88*


USA Epic'nes at its best?

What a load of crap.....People are dying every day in Japan and all that this is....Is a 'Look at the USA we are so great'

No I dont hate the USA its just this stuff REALY ANNOYS ME! Why not make a video about the 50+ people in the NPP who have probably given their lives to save Japan?


Im glad at least the US is helping in numerous ways. I think it's just the cheesy music that ruins it. Reminds me of old ww2 propaganda clips the US made for there internment/concentration camps.


----------



## westslope

Yeah that is a bit self aggrandizing, I see what you mean, but I have served on those ships with those people, and believe me they are humble and dedicated to serving and have no other agenda than to serve and protect... Just as all the people involved in overcoming this tragedy!


----------



## Flack88

Quote:



Originally Posted by *westslope*


Yeah that is a bit self aggrandizing, I see what you mean, but I have served on those ships with those people, and believe me they are humble and dedicated to serving and have no other agenda than to serve and protect... Just as all the people involved in overcoming this tragedy!


Yeah I would put my all into saving the Japanise people aswell. Im glad most Americans would aswell!

Does anyone know the situation on the spent fuel pools as thats the main concern to me atm. After dumping a few hundred tonnes of water on the reactors thats bound to have filled them so far......Thats if the fuel hasnt reached massive temps and just evaporated the water on impact?.....Which is bound to happen if temps over 100*c are reached, which is inevatable im sure. Especially when dealing with uranium which reacts to oxygen.


----------



## AdvanSuper

There is this - 
https://twitter.com/W7VOA/status/48545896278929408

Quote:



nuke agency now says hopes to restore power for cooling at ***ushima-1 No. 3, 4 reactors Sunday.


And this from the BBC feed

0149: Radiation readings at the stricken ***ushima Daiichi plant have been falling on Friday morning, according to Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency. Measurements taken about a kilometre from the plant were 279.4 microsieverts per hour, against 292.2 microsieverts per hour on Thursday evening.


----------



## Flack88

Not going to happen imo......Half the building/wiring etc is destroyed. Hence why they are having to go to more 'physical' methods! Imo the IIA have persponed the inevatable meltdown enough....


----------



## xd_1771

Japan volcano erupting  



 
 It's far away from ***ushima, but still bad news


----------



## Flack88

Old news but still bad none the less! Thats along with at least 2 erruptions in Russia! Although if you look into tectonic plates you will soon discover most volcanoes lie along tectonic plates which are triggered by earthquakes.


----------



## xd_1771

I get kinda worried that the effects of the quake and potentially the upcoming supermoon is going to cause a whole bunch of other volcanoes along the ring of fire to blow as well
But if Mt. Baker does, I have a great (safe) view of it from my house's rear balcony


----------



## willis888

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Flack88*


Does anyone know the situation on the spent fuel pools as thats the main concern to me atm.



The last I read was that only reactors 3 and 4 had pools that were in trouble. The pool at reactor 4 has had the concrete stripped off it from the explosion earlier and currently one side is a bare steel retaining wall. Pool 4 was hosed already, while the pool at reactor 3 is being hosed right now, and once that is done they expect to be able to reconnect grid power to reactor 2. The cooling pumps for pools at reactor 5 and 6 are being run from a diesel generator. I don't know what the deal is with the pool at reactor 1.

source


----------



## Flack88

Reactor 1 is FUBAR if you ask me. Its been 7 days already but the containment vestle is intact for that one which is great which = no risk. As for the rest of the reactors (3-4) if the pumps come online I hope to god they work as most of the wireing was probably in the concrete surrounding the reactors!

As for the supermoon I wont disagree/agree that it may have an effect on earth. We are talking massive amounts of gravity here! The only certain thing that exists in this universe is physics and math/maths (UK)

If you want real answers on fission etc I reccomend asking damric as he has a vast knowlage of these things from what I have seen.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


I get kinda worried that the effects of the quake and potentially the upcoming supermoon is going to cause a whole bunch of other volcanoes along the ring of fire to blow as well
But if Mt. Baker does, I have a great (safe) view of it from my house's rear balcony










I'm directly in the blast zone of Mt. Rainier, St. Helens, and Adams.









I should only get ash fall over here though.


----------



## Flack88

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*


I'm directly in the blast zone of Mt. Rainier, St. Helens, and Adams.









I should only get ash fall over here though.










Sadly this guy isnt half wrong, do you not see that plate movement has more than one outcome? Not to say that what he has said will come true. For instance Yellowstone has been rising at an alarming rate untill a few years ago and now it has stopped. Either because it is full and ready to erupt (unlikely). Or it is waiting for several plates to align/slip and fill the chamber full of magma to erupt massively. (I think about these things wayyyyy to much)

Also I fail to see how this has nothing to do with Japan as this is inevitable.


----------



## BigFrank

Holy F bomb, is that volcano really going off?


----------



## Flack88

"Radiation levels lowered after water injection" That might have something to do with the rods not being in open air?? LOL

I can see completely why most people dont trust Japan TV, they are not giving specifics at all. Japan are a talented nation which understand radioactivity/isotopes etc.....

Either way all the peole in the USA who are GENUINELY scared.......Take a good hard look at what was in the reactors and the half life of that...You will soon see that you have been OWNED (as I said im not a USA hater....Far from it......im a thinker.....A lot more thinkers are needed in the usa)


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

TEPCO has just pushed out a new press release regarding plant status (new item underlined as it is on the site):

Quote:



Unit 1(Shut down)
- Reactor has been shut down. However, the explosive sound and white smoke
were confirmed after the big quake occurred at 3:36PM Mar 12th. It was 
assumed to be hydrogen explosion.
- We have been injecting sea water into the reactor pressure vessel.

Unit 2(Shut down)
- Reactor has been shut down and Reactor Core Isolation Cooling System has
been injecting water to the reactor. However, the level of reactor
coolant had dropped and the reactor pressure had increased because
the system stopped. The national government instructed that measures are
taken to lower the pressure within the Reactor Containment Vessel and
to inject sea water into the Reactor while carefully confirming safety.
The level of reactor coolant and the pressure of the Reactor had resumed. 
- At approximately 6:00AM on March 15, 2011, an abnormal noise began 
emanating from nearby Pressure Suppression Chamber and the pressure
within this chamber decreased. 
- While we continue sea water injection operations, we temporarily moved
TEPCO employees and workers from other companies not directly involved
in this work to safe places.

Unit 3(Shut down)
- Reactor has been shut down. However, the explosive sound and white smoke
were confirmed at 11:01AM Mar 14th. It was assumed to be hydrogen explosion.
- Fog like steam was confirmed from the reactor building at 8:30AM on
March 16th, 
- We continue monitoring as it was reported that the pressure of
the Suppression Chamber has been temporarily increasing since 
approximately 6:15AM on March 17th.
- We have been injecting sea water into the reactor pressure vessel.

Unit 4 (outage due to regular inspection)
- Reactor has been shut down. However, at approximately 6AM on March 15th.
we have confirmed the explosive sound and the sustained damage around 
the 5th floor rooftop area of the Nuclear Reactor Building.
- On March 15th and 16th, we respectively confirmed the outbreak of fire 
at the 4th floor of the northwestern part of the Nuclear Reactor 
Building. We immediately reported this matter to the fire department and
the related authorities. TEPCO employees confirmed that each fire had 
already died down by itself. We will continue to carefully monitor 
situations.
- Currently, we do not consider any reactor coolant leakage inside 
the reactor containment vessel.

Unit 5 (outage due to regular inspection)
- Reactor has been shut down and the sufficient level of reactor coolant 
to ensure safety is maintained.
- Currently, we do not consider any reactor coolant leakage inside 
the reactor containment vessel.

Unit 6 (outage due to regular inspection)
- Reactor has been shut down and the sufficient level of reactor coolant 
to ensure safety is maintained.
- Currently, we do not consider any reactor coolant leakage inside 
the reactor containment vessel.

Cooling spent fuel pools
•On Unit 3, water discharge by Self-Defense Force's helicopters had been
conducted since 9:48 AM in the morning on March 17th.
•On Unit 3, water discharge by the riot police's high-pressure water
cannon trucks and Self-Defense Force's fire engines had been conducted
since approximately past 7PM on March 17th and they had finished water
discharge at 8:09PM.
•We are considering further water discharge at Unit 3 and others subject 
to the conditions of spent fuel pools when we get ready.

Casualty
- 2 workers of cooperative firm were injured at the occurrence of 
the earthquake, and were transported to the hospital.
- 1 TEPCO employee who was not able to stand by his own holding left chest
with his hand, was transported to the hospital by an ambulance.
- 1 subcontract worker at the key earthquake-proof building was 
unconscious and transported to the hospital by an ambulance.
- The radiation exposure of 1 TEPCO employee, who was working inside 
the reactor building, exceeded 100mSv and he was transported to 
the hospital.
- 2 TEPCO employees felt bad during their operation in the central control
rooms of Unit 1 and 2 while wearing full masks, and were transferred 
to ***ushima Daini Power Station for consultation with a medical advisor.
- 4 workers were injured and transported to the hospital after explosive
sound and white smoke were confirmed around the Unit 1.
- 11 workers were injured and transported to ***ushima Daini Nuclear Power
Station etc. after explosive sound and white smoke were confirmed around
the Unit 3.One of the workers was transported to the ***USHIMA Medical
University Hospital at 10:56AM 
- Presence of 2 TEPCO employees at the site is not confirmed.

Others
- We measured radioactive materials (iodine etc.) inside of the nuclear
power station area (outdoor) by monitoring car and confirmed that 
radioactive materials level is getting higher than ordinary level. 
As listed below, we have determined that specific incidents stipulated
in article 15, clause 1 of Act on Special Measures Concerning Nuclear
Emergency Preparedness (Abnormal increase in radiation dose measured
at site boundary) have occurred.
•Determined at 4:17 PM Mar 12th (Around Monitoring Post 4 )
•Determined at 8:56 AM Mar 13th (Around Monitoring Post 4 )
•Determined at 2:15 PM Mar 13th (Around Monitoring Post 4 )
•Determined at 3:50 AM Mar 14th (Around Monitoring Post 6 )
•Determined at 4:15 AM Mar 14th (Around Monitoring Post 2 ) 
•Determined at 9:27 AM Mar 14th (Around Monitoring Post 3 ) 
•Determined at 9:37 PM Mar 14th (Around main entrance ) 
•Determined at 6:51 AM Mar 15th (Around main entrance ) 
•Determined at 8:11 AM Mar 15th (Around main entrance ) 
•Determined at 4:17 PM Mar 15th (Around main entrance ) 
•Determined at 11:05 PM Mar 15th (Around main entrance )

- The national government has instructed evacuation for those local
residents within 20km radius of the periphery and evacuation to inside
for those residents from 20km to 30km radius of the periphery, because
it's possible that radioactive materials are discharged.
- At approximately 10AM on March 15, we observed 400mSv/h at the inland
side of the Unit 3 reactor building and 100mSv/h at the inland side of
the Unit 4 reactor building.
- We will continue to take all measures to ensure the safety and to 
continue monitoring the surrounding environment aroud the Power Station.


----------



## Zen00

Here's some interesting data from a SciAm article. http://arstechnica.com/science/news/...ear-crisis.ars


----------



## Flack88

Chunky_Chimp Awsome report my freind im looking through it now


----------



## Flack88

Basically its a lost effort on the spent pools as far as im concerned as would most physicists would agree! At best they could pump 100000000000 gallons of water onto these rods but it wont make a difference!....Thats unless they change their attack, we need to cover these rods in water and stop it evaporating which is no.1 priority imo.

The only way around this is to create a concrete barracade of some sorts! With a molten lead lining if possible.....Get me to Japan and I will sort it out! The EU/UK and the USA is just waisting political time!


----------



## BigFrank

Man these news conferences are so confusing.


----------



## xd_1771

So Chunky_Chimp..... with the reactors shut down, this situation is basically done?
Disregard this, I figured it out


----------



## AdvanSuper

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Flack88*


Basically its a lost effort on the spent pools as far as im concerned as would most physicists would agree! *At best they could pump 100000000000 gallons of water onto these rods but it wont make a difference!*....Thats unless they change their attack, we need to *cover these rods in water and stop it evaporating which is no.1 priority imo*.

The only way around this is to create a concrete barracade of some sorts! With a lead lining if possible.....


Contradicting much? I didn't know spraying water to fill the spent fuel pool was any different than covering the rods in a pool of water


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


So Chunky_Chimp..... with the reactors shut down, this situation is basically done?


If it only took the reactors shutting down to relieve the problem, we wouldn't have this thread at all; the reactors automatically shut down right after the earthquake, and their backup generators to operate cooling pumps ran until the tsunami, which flooded the fuel tanks for the generators (they don't like running with water in them, of course).

Right now they have established an alternate power connection to unit 2, and will try for the other units, and once they've done that they'll replace the coolant pumps (which were ruined by the seawater they pumped in); once that's done they'll only have to worry about the spent fuel pools.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AdvanSuper*


Contradicting much? I didn't know spraying water to fill the spent fuel pool was any different than covering the rods in a pool of water










I think he meant that trying to do it the way they are will never work. Ie its all being evaporated before it can build up. Like if they turned the pumps back in, that would work.


----------



## Flack88

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AdvanSuper*


Contradicting much? I didn't know spraying water to fill the spent fuel pool was any different than covering the rods in a pool of water










Its no different from your poor explanation......you have no idea about nukeular reactors........If spent nuclear fuel isnt cooled it can go "tits up" as I prefer to call it. If you can cool it, its all good.

Thank you Blue Destroyer as you can explain this in -16 terms lol.


----------



## the.FBI

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Flack88*


Its no different from your poor explanation......you have no idea about nuclear reactors........If spent nuclear fuel isnt cooled it can go "tits up" as I prefer to call it. If you can cool it, its all good.


It burns...


----------



## Flack88

Quote:



Originally Posted by *the.FBI*


It burns...


Yeah it ignites to the oxygen as any combustable material would! (aka wood/steel/aluminium etc)


----------



## AdvanSuper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88;12773612*
> Its no different from your poor explanation......you have no idea about nukeular reactors........If spent nuclear fuel isnt cooled it can go "tits up" as I prefer to call it. If you can cool it, its all good.
> 
> Thank you Blue Destroyer as you can explain this in -16 terms lol.


Your statement made ZERO sense as you contradicted yourself. Lets see you come up with better ways to fix this without exposing these people to harmful amounts of radiation. It's difficult for someone to just say okay I'll sign my death certificate now or cut my life span by X years. The men in there are brave, but they can only continue this for so long and they are trying their best.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88;12773502*
> Get me to Japan and I will sort it out! The EU/UK and the USA is just waisting political time!


Your ignorance, America bashing, know it all attitude and your constant negative attitude towards this situation have annoyed me quite much thus far.

In before delete.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Guys, come on. You can get your points across better than that.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdvanSuper;12773728*
> Your statement made ZERO sense as you contradicted yourself. Lets see you come up with better ways to fix this without exposing these people to harmful amounts of radiation. It's difficult for someone to just say okay I'll sign my death certificate now or cut my life span by X years. The men in there are brave, but they can only continue this for so long and they are trying their best.
> 
> Your ignorance, America bashing, know it all attitude and your constant negative attitude towards this situation have annoyed me quite much thus far.
> 
> In before delete.


Umm...his statement made sense to me...guess I have a better reading comprehension than some. He also did not bad mouth these heroes. What he did say is pretty much what. The workers know. What they are doing will never fully work. This is a way to buy there selfs some time to come up with a better idea or to hopefully have levels drop so they can get back in there.


----------



## AdvanSuper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blue Destroyer;12773806*
> Umm...his statement made sense to me...*guess I have a better reading comprehension than some*. He also did not bad mouth these heroes. What he did say is pretty much what. The workers know. What they are doing will never fully work. This is a way to buy there selfs some time to come up with a better idea or to hopefully have levels drop so they can get back in there.


This is funny.

He said they can pump 100000000000 gallons into the rods and it won't make a difference then he said they need to cover them with water. How is pumping water into the pool to COVER them in water any different from COVERING them with water. Maybe my comprehension skills are better than others.

What do you think they are trying to do? They aren't just screwing around spraying water at it for fun. They are trying to keep them under water as much as possible.

He then goes on to say he'll have this all figured out if he's sent there, can it get more insulting?


----------



## shnur

As long as they are unable to cool them down after shutdown situation is not done.


----------



## shnur

Do we have any updates on page 1? I've been refreshing a few times and I don't seem to pick up anything new...
I kind of missed all the attempts of cooling stuff down; didn't see any new pictures/videos of the attempts


----------



## Zen00

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdvanSuper;12774033*
> This is funny.
> 
> He said they can pump 100000000000 gallons into the rods and it won't make a difference then he said they need to cover them with water. How is pumping water into the pool to COVER them in water any different from COVERING them with water. Maybe my comprehension skills are better than others.
> 
> What do you think they are trying to do? They aren't just screwing around spraying water at it for fun. They are trying to keep them under water as much as possible.
> 
> He then goes on to say he'll have this all figured out if he's sent there, can it get more insulting?


I think what he's trying to say is, you need them underwater because then the water stays on it. The pump fire things are just splashing on top, and are not as effective.

I agree that running water can be less effective if that is indeed the case of what's going on right now. It will be moving past too fast to efficiently carry waste heat. But for all in all, that's all we can do. building a wall is impossible right now.

Pumping should work in a pinch, but a pool where the waste heat can fully transfer would be better, or at least a slower water transfer system.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shnur;12774199*
> Do we have any updates on page 1? I've been refreshing a few times and I don't seem to pick up anything new...
> I kind of missed all the attempts of cooling stuff down; didn't see any new pictures/videos of the attempts


http://www.overclock.net/12773432-post2203.html

They have a new power connection up to unit 2 and will work on the others, but they have to repair/replace the coolant pumps since injecting seawater ruined them.


----------



## Dirtyworks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shnur;12774199*
> Do we have any updates on page 1? I've been refreshing a few times and I don't seem to pick up anything new...
> I kind of missed all the attempts of cooling stuff down; didn't see any new pictures/videos of the attempts


Its been more than 24 hours since Lampen updated the OP


----------



## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dirtyworks;12774253*
> Its been more than 24 hours since Lampen updated the OP


I think he's been out, sorry for being lazy but what's happened in the last 8-12 hours?


----------



## shnur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;12774225*
> http://www.overclock.net/12773432-post2203.html
> 
> They have a new power connection up to unit 2 and will work on the others, but they have to repair/replace the coolant pumps since injecting seawater ruined them.


Thanks! I've read the whole post, it just seemed less organized than how Lampen presented things; he had them hourly, here it's just a pack of info and it's a bit confusing
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dirtyworks;12774253*
> Its been more than 24 hours since Lampen updated the OP


Yeah, I hope he'll come back!!!









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eagle1337;12774313*
> I think he's been out, sorry for being lazy but what's happened in the last 8-12 hours?


Check Chunky_Chimp's response to the same question


----------



## finalturismo

This just in after efforts to cool reactors with water and establish a electrical connection

March 18, 2011 12:25 a.m. EDT
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/17/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=C1

As workers fought desperately to repair the damaged nuclear plant, radiation levels rose where they were trying to reestablish electrical power -- "the highest registered so far," in that area the TEPCO spokesman said.


----------



## Zen00

Journalist wall of shame. Post your favorite hysterical news reporters!

http://jpquake.wikispaces.com/Journalist+Wall+of+Shame


----------



## Ulver

For any interested, real time radiation monitoring from all over Japan, HERE.
Info taken and provided by the Japanese Gov. from many sites.
Please note that some areas, such as ***ushima are listed as "under survey" but the values are never displayed since the "nuclear crisis" has begun.


----------



## S_V(TM)

Lot of Information... Thanks for updates.....


----------



## Flack88

Basically as I said no matter how much water is being dumped on the fuel rods.....THERE IS NO WAY THE STORAGE POOL CAN BE REPLENESHED! No matter how much water you can spray on the rods in the storage pools! (from ABOVE!)

The only way you can replenish these pools is through mechanical methods underneeth the pools! If I were japan I would feed hoses unerneeth the Reactors, dig out holes and flood the remaining concrete structures (FROM UNDERNEATH)! This to me seems the most sensible idea....So far!

From the NBK live feed all I can see is steam which is not concerning!


----------



## finalturismo

The mainstream media is always the last to know whats going on, in any serious situation. Always remember that, if you go with the mainstream your dumb as a potato and outdated.


----------



## Flack88

Yeah regardless im sure most would agree this is the best Idea most people come across! I hope Japan listens to my idea.

Concrete is water tight! At least up to the level that it was destroyed!

Seriously if people belive EXPOSED uranium is cooled from a few water cannons........Things are getting realy desperate! Especially when the water trucks can only hold so much water!


----------



## aweir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *finalturismo;12774825*
> The mainstream media is always the last to know whats going on, in any serious situation. Always remember that, if you go with the mainstream your dumb as a potato and outdated.


And yet you just posted a link to CNN. http://www.overclock.net/technology-science-news/963222-various-japan-nuclear-emergency-continuous-coverage-223.html#post12774411


----------



## Dirtyworks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ulver;12774597*
> For any interested, real time radiation monitoring from all over Japan, HERE.
> Info taken and provided by the Japanese Gov. from many sites.
> Please note that some areas, such as ***ushima are listed as "under survey" but the values are never displayed since the "nuclear crisis" has begun.


Whats up in Ibaraki? ~10x higher than anywhere else on there


----------



## Ulver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dirtyworks;12775033*
> Whats up in Ibaraki? ~10x higher than anywhere else on there


It's the nearest prefecture south of the nuclear plant in ***ushima, so I'm guessing that's due to the wind direction earlier in the week. Getting better though.


----------



## aweir

As far as the spent fuel rods being housed in the same building as the reactor, well there's a Fortune cookie somewhere that says "Don't put all your eggs in one basket." Maybe they should heed their own advice next time.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12775380*
> As far as the spent fuel rods being housed in the same building as the reactor, well there's a Fortune cookie somewhere that says "Don't put all your eggs in one basket." Maybe they should heed their own advice next time.


Separating them would greatly increase logistical costs, as well as make them harder to secure.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12772829*
> Japan volcano erupting
> It's far away from ***ushima, but still bad news


This was a volcano that erupted months ago. Note the upload date on the video below:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2575Z_jTUw[/ame]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12775380*
> As far as the spent fuel rods being housed in the same building as the reactor, well there's a Fortune cookie somewhere that says "Don't put all your eggs in one basket." Maybe they should heed their own advice next time.


That's why they have 7 "baskets", not just one.


----------



## scyy

12


----------



## aweir

Officials may have to bury reactors in concrete and sand. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/wl_nm/us_japan_quake

Reasons why it won't work include too much heat from the reactors evaporating the water of the cement too fast making it crumble.

An explosion of concrete if a super-heated air bubble gets trapped inside.

I can't think how this would be possible given the amount of heat being released, although I'm not a civil engineer (no surprise).


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12775516*
> Officials may have to bury reactors in concrete and sand. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/wl_nm/us_japan_quake
> 
> Reasons why it won't work include too much heat from the reactors evaporating the water of the cement too fast making it crumble.
> 
> An explosion of concrete if a super-heated air bubble gets trapped inside.
> 
> I can't think how this would be possible given the amount of heat being released, although I'm not a civil engineer (no surprise).


What I find peculiar is the lack of supporting quotes. There were only 2 that were even slightly related:
Quote:


> "It is not impossible to encase the reactors in concrete. But our priority right now is to try and cool them down first," an official from the plant operator, Tokyo Electric Power Co, told a news conference.


Quote:


> "Asked about burying the reactors in sand and concrete, he[Nishiyama Hidehiko; Japan's nuclear agency spokesman] said: "That solution is in the back of our minds, but we are focused on cooling the reactors down." "


Whereas the article boldly states:
Quote:


> Japanese engineers conceded on Friday that burying a crippled nuclear plant in sand and concrete may be the only way to prevent a catastrophic radiation release


Crappy journalistic interpretation or only a failure to add proof?
Difficult to say at this point. Kyodo has yet to report anything on this matter.


----------



## XAslanX

Quote:


> BREAKING NEWS: Japan's nuke safety agency raised accident seriousness level to 5 from 4


http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/


----------



## wontonforevuh

There seems to be a lot of fearmongering about the nuclear problems in Japan. If you want to actually understand what is going on and how it would affect you/others then read this:

http://online.itp.ucsb.edu/online/plecture/bmonreal11/oh/01.html

Its very informative and explains a lot about why the Japan situation is getting blown way out of proportion by the media.


----------



## unexpectedly

I prefer news gets people spun up about this than economy. The most damage ever was people suddenly stop spending their money...


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Cover that thing in molten lead and concrete as a last resort, while even doing that is not ideal, it would limit any fallout.


----------



## Bull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE;12776390*
> Cover that thing in molten lead and concrete as a last resort, while even doing that is not ideal, it would limit any fallout.


I agree, Its more or less a total loss so just bury it...water is just vaporizing anyway.


----------



## farmdve

I am kinda disappointed from our consul(Bulgarian) who, quoted from the news "Ran like a dog from Japan".
I am ashamed of this....


----------



## Bull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farmdve;12776424*
> I am kinda disappointed from our consul(Bulgarian) who, quoted from the news "Ran like a dog from Japan".
> I am ashamed of this....


I'm sure it felt like Armageddon for most everyone and maybe he thought he was going to die, when drastic things happen most people tend to run away from the danger, he just ran further than most folks.


----------



## finalturismo

where are the radiation readings?


----------



## arson2121

the radiation readings on that map are peaks seen since this thing started. so that 750 reading was from when the wind was blowing south when they had to vent the steam from like 4 or 5 days ago.


----------



## finalturismo

The united states has flown a few drones over the site and picked up readings but have yet to release them. The japs haven't released readings near the site either. Iam sure there is a reason for that.......


----------



## EvanPitts

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sLowEnd;12762092*
> NHK says there's a bird flu outbreak too...yikes...


I wonder when the Westboro creeps will show up with their placards???


----------



## robchaos

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/18/source-minuscule-radioactive-fallout-reaches/#ixzz1GxUOAX6a

First sign of fallout radiation arrives in california at levels not harmful to the public, lets hope it stays that way.


----------



## Frost

I'm not really following all the millions of posts here, but I am wondering why the OP news hasn't changed/been updated much(if any) since 2035 on the 16th? Is there nothing to report, or did you give up on it, or what? From the constant posts still being spewed I would think there is still news to post...


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *finalturismo;12777311*
> http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream1&hpt=T2
> experts on nuclear disaster - LIVE
> 
> "no radiation is safe radiation"
> "we should listen to the medical professionals"


Yea...and CNN is full of idiots.

You computer monitor produces radiation grasshopper. As mentioned, thing like bananas carry radiatiosotopes. Heck, YOU produce radiation yourself.


----------



## metroidfreak

Anyway. If this hasn't been brought up yet. The disaster has been increased to a level 5 event.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/18/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T1


----------



## Boyboyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *finalturismo;12777311*
> http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream1&hpt=T2
> 
> experts on nuclear disaster - LIVE
> 
> "no radiation is safe radiation"
> "we should listen to the medical professionals"


These people need to consider what sunlight is.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boyboyd;12777417*
> These people need to consider what sunlight is.


Shhh.

Personally, I FIRMLY believe we should be putting our best efforts forth to ban dihydrogenmonoxide (DHMO).

http://www.dhmo.org/


----------



## Boyboyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skripka;12777432*
> Shhh.
> 
> Personally, I FIRMLY believe we should be putting our best efforts forth to ban dihydrogenmonoxide (DHMO).
> 
> http://www.dhmo.org/


hehehe, very clever.

Thousands of people a year die from breathing dihydrogenmonoxide.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boyboyd;12777446*
> hehehe, very clever.
> 
> Thousands of people a year die from breathing dihydrogenmonoxide.


More than a few US Congresspeople have fallen for it BTW. Does that speak volumes about US politicians or what?


----------



## Tchernobyl

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sakN2hSVxA[/ame]

got this linked by my sister on facebook, she's actually navy and stationed in tokyo :X


----------



## willis888

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flack88;12774805*
> Basically as I said no matter how much water is being dumped on the fuel rods.....THERE IS NO WAY THE STORAGE POOL CAN BE REPLENESHED! No matter how much water you can spray on the rods in the storage pools! (from ABOVE!)
> 
> The only way you can replenish these pools is through mechanical methods underneeth the pools!


The fist bit would only be true if there were holes in the bottom or bottom-sides of the pool. There are not. The blast that destroyed the concrete structure around the pool at reactor 4 did not penetrate the steel lining. None of the other pools have been significantly damaged. A sufficient flow of water from the top will fill them. There are at least 30 water cannons available to provide that flow.

As for piping it in from below - there are no bottom pipes and for good reason. If a pipe breaks below the water line, all the water above it can flow out of it. These pools are intentionally engineered to have no pipes through the bottom or bottom-sides - it's a safety precaution.


----------



## _02

Just out of curiosity, and pardon my ignorance, but where is all this seawater going if they are constantly pumping it in?


----------



## Epitope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_02;12778398*
> Just out of curiosity, and pardon my ignorance, but where is all this seawater going if they are constantly pumping it in?


It is evaporating. The reactors are on the verge of melting down. They are boiling off the water as fast as they can pump it in.


----------



## _02

So, pardon me again, would not this steam include.... radioactive material?


----------



## Kasp1js

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_02;12778430*
> So, pardon me again, would not this steam include.... radioactive material?


Not sure on this, but pure h2o absorbs very little radiation and if the seawater is evaporating all the steam should be clean h2o and the hard particles(salt etc) should stay at the bottom of the reactor plant. Can someone confirm this?


----------



## Epitope

Well I believe they have been talking about radioactive steam being produced from the reactors.


----------



## jjjc_93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Epitope;12778523*
> Well I believe they have been talking about radioactive steam being produced from the reactors.


I'm pretty sure that was due to necessary venting?


----------



## farmdve

Pardon me as well, but if a lot of water is evaporating, doesn't that mean there will be heavy rains?


----------



## Norlig

Why dont they just power up one of the healthy reactors, to power the cooling system of the damaged reactor?


----------



## finalturismo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pangeltveit;12778597*
> Why dont they just power up one of the healthy reactors, to power the cooling system of the damaged reactor?


rofl!


----------



## _02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pangeltveit;12778597*
> Why dont they just power up one of the healthy reactors, to power the cooling system of the damaged reactor?


The systems are physically damaged, I believe.


----------



## sLowEnd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Epitope;12778414*
> It is evaporating. The reactors are on the verge of melting down. They are boiling off the water as fast as they can pump it in.


I wonder what they'll do about the salt and other solutes left behind?


----------



## willis888

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_02;12778430*
> So, pardon me again, would not this steam include.... radioactive material?


There likely are some particles of uranium and transuranics in the steam from reactors that have partial melting. Maybe enough to build one uranium bullet.


----------



## weidass

You know what I don't understand is, it can't just be the fact that the water pumps are not powered. If it was simply an issue of powering the pumps, there are many solutions that anyone with a simple understanding of electronics could implement.

For example, turn on either reactor 5 or 6.
Or if they are really desperate, go get some copper cable, make a voltage transformer, (google how to make one, it's really easy) and hook up every single car in the parking lot to this transformer. That will be enough power for the pumps.

If the pumps themselves are damaged, then no amount of power lines or jiggery pokery will get them working, aside from actually repairing them.


----------



## Boyboyd

What surprised me is that the electricity used in the plant doesn't come from the plant itself. It's cheaper just to buy it from the national grid than step it down just for their own use.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *weidass;12779622*
> You know what I don't understand is, it can't just be the fact that the water pumps are not powered. If it was simply an issue of powering the pumps, there are many solutions that anyone with a simple understanding of electronics could implement.
> 
> For example, turn on either reactor 5 or 6.
> Or if they are really desperate, go get some copper cable, make a voltage transformer, (google how to make one, it's really easy) and hook up every single car in the parking lot to this transformer. That will be enough power for the pumps.
> 
> If the pumps themselves are damaged, then no amount of power lines or jiggery pokery will get them working, aside from actually repairing them.


Reactors 5 and 6 were and still are offline. Odds are those pumps require some serious voltage/current...I almost would not be surprised if they need 3-phase continuous power due to how much water they are supposed to move so far and so fast. I believe the transformers for said pumps are at least partially flooded due to the tsunami....so it isn't close to being like jump-starting a car in terms of getting things working.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boyboyd;12779671*
> What surprised me is that the electricity used in the plant doesn't come from the plant itself. It's cheaper just to buy it from the national grid than step it down just for their own use.


It is probably a safety precaution. The odds of needing to scram the reactors, and not have enough power for the controls etc, is higher than the hookups to the grid going kaput.


----------



## Boyboyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skripka;12779700*
> It is probably a safety precaution. The odds of needing to scram the reactors, and not have enough power for the controls etc, is higher than the hookups to the grid going kaput.


I never thought about that, that's a good point.

It's also true at coal power stations, but i suppose they need power too if the generator fails.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *weidass;12779622*
> You know what I don't understand is, it can't just be the fact that the water pumps are not powered. If it was simply an issue of powering the pumps, there are many solutions that anyone with a simple understanding of electronics could implement.
> 
> For example, turn on either reactor 5 or 6.
> Or if they are really desperate, go get some copper cable, make a voltage transformer, (google how to make one, it's really easy) and hook up every single car in the parking lot to this transformer. That will be enough power for the pumps.
> 
> If the pumps themselves are damaged, then no amount of power lines or jiggery pokery will get them working, aside from actually repairing them.


The water pumps at a single chernobyl reactor required a 5mW deisel generator to turn them. I'm not sure how much power these pumps require, but it sure isn't something you're going to be running off a bunch of car batteries!

My guess is that the pumps themselves are damaged. They already said that the explosion at reactor #3 damaged 4/5 of the pumps, and the fifth failed shortly afterward.

Now that I think about it... how the heck were they powering those pumps to find out they were damaged?


----------



## sLowEnd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;12779769*
> The water pumps at a single chernobyl reactor required a 5mW deisel generator to turn them. I'm not sure how much power these pumps require, but it sure isn't something you're going to be running off a bunch of car batteries!
> 
> My guess is that the pumps themselves are damaged. They already said that the explosion at reactor #3 damaged 4/5 of the pumps, and the fifth failed shortly afterward.
> 
> Now that I think about it... how the heck were they powering those pumps to find out they were damaged?


That's a lot of power.









I wonder why they don't have multiple smaller pumps that require less electricity? Wouldn't that be a little more redundant? (Which would be good)

But then again, I don't know anything about designing a nuke plant.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;12779769*
> The water pumps at a single chernobyl reactor required a 5mW deisel generator to turn them. I'm not sure how much power these pumps require, but it sure isn't something you're going to be running off a bunch of car batteries!
> 
> My guess is that the pumps themselves are damaged. They already said that the explosion at reactor #3 damaged 4/5 of the pumps, and the fifth failed shortly afterward.
> 
> Now that I think about it... how the heck were they powering those pumps to find out they were damaged?


thats what i want to know too...wonder if they had a single generator running for a while that survived the wave


----------



## Epitope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;12779769*
> Now that I think about it... how the heck were they powering those pumps to find out they were damaged?


I would hope they have some sort of backup like a diesel generator. I work in a college science lab building that is 8 stories tall and employs a few hundred scientists. The entire thing is on a diesel backup. It's pretty cool to be here during a thunderstorm and watch the rest of campus lose power yet we still get to keep all of our lights.

The generators are huge, they look like a yellow semi truck trailer missing wheels.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Epitope;12779837*
> I would hope they have some sort of backup like a diesel generator. I work in a college science lab building that is 8 stories tall and employs a few hundred scientists. The entire thing is on a diesel backup. It's pretty cool to be here during a thunderstorm and watch the rest of campus lose power yet we still get to keep all of our lights.
> 
> The generators are huge, they look like a yellow semi truck trailer missing wheels.


They did have backup generators at ***ushima as well, but they were destroyed by the Tsunami.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sLowEnd;12779823*
> That's a lot of power.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder why they don't have multiple smaller pumps that require less electricity? Wouldn't that be a little more redundant? (Which would be good)
> 
> But then again, I don't know anything about designing a nuke plant.


I thought it was 5mW to run all of the pumps for one reactor, but it's 5.5mW to run ONE pump.







Each reactor at Chernobyl had three backup generators capable of generating 5.5mW each. The total hourly water flow required across the Chernobyl plant was 12 million gallons, or about 3300 gallons/second.

EDIT: Found this on wikipedia:
Quote:


> Boiling water reactors have steam-turbine driven emergency core cooling systems that can be directly operated by steam produced after a reactor shutdown and can inject water directly into the reactor. Using these pumps, boiling water reactors can provide water without electrically driven pumps, but only while the reactor is at pressure.


It doesn't really explain why these pumps haven't been running this entire time though, but it's possible these are the failed pumps they were talking about with regards to reactor #2 when reactor #3 exploded.

EDIT 2: Also, this:
Quote:


> After the failure of the diesel generators, emergency power for control systems was supplied by batteries that would last about eight hours.[66] Batteries from other nuclear plants were sent to the site and mobile generators arrived within 13 hours,[67] but work to connect portable generating equipment to power water pumps was still continuing as of 15:04 on 12 March.[68] Generators would normally be connected through switching equipment in a basement area of the buildings, but this basement area had been flooded.[64] It had been conjectured that a new powerline to the complex would revive some of the electric cooling system pumps that have failed.[69] After subsequent efforts to bring water to the plant, efforts would shift to that strategy eventually resulting in cable emplacement reported at approximately 08:30 UTC.


----------



## _02

Nevermind... I was off by an order of magnitude.

Still, 3,300 gallons per second is absurd.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_02;12780091*
> For scale, 3,000 gallons is a swimming pool that is approximately 50 feet long, 20 feet wide and 13 feet deep at one end. PUmping that per second! That's insane.
> 
> edit wait...


when you think about it. with how hot these rods are, and they are just making all the water dumps from the copters vaperize instantly, it makes sense that they would have to use that much water to submerge these things.


----------



## Acroma

CNN reporting low lvl radiation from japan has reached California.


----------



## _02

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Acroma*


CNN reporting low lvl radiation from japan has reached California.


In amounts "billions of times" lower than those which pose any health risk.


----------



## Acroma

Quote:



Originally Posted by *_02*


In amounts "billions of times" lower than those which pose any health risk.


From what I understand this is from day 1. With all the lies about how bad it actually is you never know... I don't think it will be that bad but we won't know until it's 100% over.


----------



## EvanPitts

Quote:



Originally Posted by *farmdve*


Pardon me as well, but if a lot of water is evaporating, doesn't that mean there will be heavy rains?


Only if it was heavy water - which is isn't in this case...


----------



## FuNkDrSpOt

Does anyone know of a site where I can see the radiation levels in realtime in California? I really don't care much about it for myself but I'd like to know if it starts to increase b/c of my daughter.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Acroma;12780174*
> CNN reporting low lvl radiation from japan has reached California.


California seeing no radiation level increase - Reuters


----------



## Acroma

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu*


California seeing no radiation level increase - Reuters










Try reading the whole report......


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Acroma;12781056*
> Try reading the whole report......


I did. The fact stands. What was detected were only a few particles. I doubt you could really call that "a level increase", though, of course, that's semantics.
Also,
Quote:


> "Radiation levels have not shown an increase at any of the monitoring stations up and down the West Coast"


I'm guessing other sources are, as usual, blowing this out of proportion.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Cleaned again. Seriously, enough fearmongering and stay on topic.


----------



## eternal7trance

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Cleaned again. Seriously, enough fearmongering and stay on topic.


Gotta pull out the forum vacuum. lol

So why was the plant guy crying when he gave the news? Is it really that bad? It seems like this would only effect Japan and probably not even Tokyo.


----------



## arson2121

they just said that the workers would be exposed to areas w/10 mSv/hr of radiation during repairs. right there that's nothing like chernobyl. the workers in chernobyl received doses closer to 100-200 mSv/hr. it's still unhealthy doses and approximately 15x what normal background radiation would expose you to.


----------



## willis888

Quote:



Originally Posted by *eternal7trance*


So why was the plant guy crying when he gave the news?


A major earthquake every 30 minutes, no sleep for the last week, entire towns reduced to floatsam, fires and flooding, martyred friends and coworkers at the reactors, missing family members . . . It's been a rough week.


----------



## dominique120

No more updates?


----------



## arson2121

nothing really new. fire trucks seem to be working to keep things somewhat stable. they are still working on laying down the electric line, but it's going to take a while to get everything up and running even after it's laid down.


----------



## robchaos

haven't seen this posted yet.
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/79482.html

Quote:



-- Reactor No. 4 - Under maintenance when quake struck, no fuel rods in reactor core, temperature in spent-fuel storage pool reached 84 C on Monday, fire Tuesday possibly caused by hydrogen explosion at pool holding spent fuel rods, fire observed Wednesday at building housing reactor, pool water level feared receding, renewed nuclear chain reaction feared, only frame remains of reactor building roof.


----------



## Krymore

If any one wants to hear what the earth quake sounded like underground, its quite eery

Also on the same link is new footage of the tsunami hitting a coastal town.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theloo...-massive-quake


----------



## Dirtyworks

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Krymore*


If any one wants to hear what the earth quake sounded like underground, its quite eery

Also on the same link is new footage of the tsunami hitting a coastal town.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theloo...-massive-quake


*sigh* I wish Ant Video Downloader could download that.. I can't stream it. Being on satellite internet (read: extremely slow) makes videos like that extremely buggy. Pausing it, to let it load, doesn't seem to help at all.


----------



## Digigami

It's amazing to see how much activity they have gone through over there.

Quote:



A German geophysicist also created this nifty graphic that shows the seismic activity off the coast of Japan since March 9, the day a 7.2 quake occurred off the coast of Japan. The morning of March 11 shows the massive quake and its aftershocks, and then the seismic activity slowly subsides. But all in all, the region has suffered 428 earthquakes since March 9, even though many were too far or too small to be felt on land.


----------



## jjsoviet

This just in:

Reuters
Quote:


> FLASH: Japan nuclear plant operator starts using water pump at reactor No.5: Jiji News


Good thing they were able to jump-start a working pump to cool a reactor. Hope they will do the same to the others, especially Reactor #4.


----------



## NinjaRicer

So, any updates? Do they have this under control yet, now that power is partly restored? And does California have anything to worry about now?


----------



## arson2121

no, not quite, and they never did.


----------



## aweir

The latest update is this:

The owner of the stricken nuclear power complex in northeastern Japan said Saturday that it will hike the radiation exposure limit for its workers at the plant from 100 millisieverts per shift to 150 millisieverts, Japan's public broadcaster NHK reported.

_The limit for radiation workers in the United States is 50 millisieverts per year, but we try to keep them to less than 5 millisieverts per year."_

1. Engineers are expected to connect a new power line to four quake-damaged reactors at the ***ushima nuclear plant by the end of the day. Firefighters have continued to spray water in a desperate attempt to avert a meltdown.
*[10:38 p.m. ET Friday, 11:38 a.m. Saturday in Tokyo]* Workers have finished laying electrical cable near the ***ushima Daiichi power plant's No. 2 nuclear reactor, the Tokyo Electric Power Company says.
2. Japan raised the accident level at the damaged ***ushima nuclear plant from four to five on a seven-point international danger scale for atomic accidents.
3. The confirmed death toll from the disaster has risen to 7,197 and 10,905 people are listed as missing.
4. The Japanese government is asking local authorities further away from the disaster zone to prepare to receive survivors from the worst-affected areas. Nearly 400,000 people are living in temporary evacuation centres.

Link to timeline: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/18/japan-quake-live-blog-nissan-monitoring-car-exports-for-radiation/?hpt=T2

They have revealed that all the troubled reactors have plutonium in them.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/18/plutonium-troubled-reactors-spent-fuel-pools/


----------



## pioneerisloud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12786717*
> The latest update is this:
> 
> 1. Engineers are expected to connect a new power line to four quake-damaged reactors at the ***ushima nuclear plant by the end of the day. Firefighters have continued to spray water in a desperate attempt to avert a meltdown.
> 2. Japan raised the accident level at the damaged ***ushima nuclear plant from four to five on a seven-point international danger scale for atomic accidents.
> 3. The confirmed death toll from the disaster has risen to 7,197 and 10,905 people are listed as missing.
> 4. The Japanese government is asking local authorities further away from the disaster zone to prepare to receive survivors from the worst-affected areas. Nearly 400,000 people are living in temporary evacuation centres.
> 
> They have revealed that all the troubled reactors have plutonium in them.
> http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/18/plutonium-troubled-reactors-spent-fuel-pools/


Any other source other than Fox News? Sorry, but I just don't trust them. Especially since they're the ones that were claiming Vancouver, BC was preparing for a massive nuclear fallout.


----------



## aweir

I gave you the timeline from BBC. If you Can't you trust BBC, who can you trust.

People complain and rip me apart when I don't help, then when I do they don't believe it. It's a no win situation.

HERE

http://www.newser.com/article/d9m1j0n00/all-troubled-reactors-and-spent-fuel-pools-in-japan-have-plutonium-but-not-weapons-grade.html


----------



## Hyoketsu

NEWS ADVISORY: Putting water into No. 3 reactor successful to some extent: Edano (16:14)
NEWS ADVISORY: Nuclear crisis abating step by step: Edano (16:12)
NEWS ADVISORY: Temperature at 100 C or lower at ***ushima 1-4 reactors: defense chief (15:51)

^Kyodo

Now let's just hope all the reactors have at least some of the pumps in operational condition.


----------



## aweir

Do you have a more reliable source?

NEWS ADVISORY: Putting water into No. 3 reactor successful to some extent: Edano (16:14)
NEWS ADVISORY: Nuclear crisis abating step by step: Edano (16:12)
NEWS ADVISORY: Temperature at 100 C or lower at ***ushima 1-4 reactors: defense chief (15:51)

I have a hard time believing this

the latest BBC update is :
*#0721: Mr Edano said emergency workers at the plant were still working on the restoration of power to the plant.*

If the power hasn't been restored, how are they able to cool the reactors to below 100C on ALL FOUR reactors?


----------



## wilykat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12787596*
> If the power hasn't been restored, how are they able to cool the reactors to below 100C on ALL FOUR reactors?


By pumping water and dumping water from outside source. Not efficient as using internal cooling system but it helped.


----------



## jjsoviet

CNN: Radiation found in food
Quote:


> Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told reporters that abnormally high levels of radiation had been detected in some, but not all tested samples of spinach and milk from the Japanese prefectures of ***ushima and Ibaraki.
> 
> The measurements exceeded the limits stipulated by Japan's food safety law, though Edano insisted they weren't extremely high. If a person consumed these products continuously for a year, he said, they'd take in the same amount of radiation as a single CT scan. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration equates that to roughly 7 millisieverts, over double what a person in an industrialized country naturally gets in a year.


----------



## jehu58

earthquake, tsunami, and pride. How much suffering they bring. you would think that the world community that steps up and orders/threatens kadafe could not of provided assistance. Whether asked for or not it was needed. We sit back and watch, not wishes to offend a friend. We sit idle and watch them struggle against hope. Some where in the world there must be the diesel generator and air transport that could have provided the needed power for the pumps.


----------



## farmdve

Recently there has been no news post of how is the situation with the reactors. Are they cooled or not?


----------



## shnur

I really hope they are, looks like at least they could keep them from melting all at the same time until others come up with a long term solution.


----------



## Imglidinhere

I think the Japanese have stopped talking about the situation... I haven't heard anything new about the issue on the news. o.o


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Imglidinhere*


I think the Japanese have stopped talking about the situation... I haven't heard anything new about the issue on the news. o.o


All the rumors in the media is not helping the situation...

It sickens me to know how little news reporters actually know about Nuclear Power Plants.

From what I have gathered the past few days all of this was under control (yes there were some H-explosions, but they were to be expected). Given that the plant is in fact a BWR/4.


----------



## 98uk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mega_option101*


All the rumors in the media is not helping the situation...

It sickens me to know how little news reporters actually know about Nuclear Power Plants.


You were expecting news reporters to know about nuclear reactors...









There's a reason decent news networks (BBC etc...) have experts on the programme, because no one else has the faintest idea.


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:



Originally Posted by *98uk*


You were expecting news reporters to know about nuclear reactors...









There's a reason decent news networks (BBC etc...) have experts on the programme, because no one else has the faintest idea.


I like to think that reporters would not take on topics that they have no prior knowledge of. It just makes no sense to talk about something that you have no background information on.


----------



## 98uk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mega_option101*


I like to think that reporters would not take on topics that they have no prior knowledge of. It just makes no sense to talk about something that you have no background information on.


You get back to me when you can fill a news crew with people that have a full knowledge of nuclear powerplants. Seriously, stop being ridiculous. I agree that it's frustrating when they try to talk about something they obviously have no idea about, but that's when experts should be brought in.

What channel do you watch btw? I mean no disrespect, but I think it's a global view than US news isn't the most professional or filled with the brightest people. It's perhaps a last resort sort of thing. There are some good international channels to watch things unfold.


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:



Originally Posted by *98uk*


You get back to me when you can fill a news crew with people that have a full knowledge of nuclear powerplants. Seriously, stop being ridiculous. I agree that it's frustrating when they try to talk about something they obviously have no idea about, but that's when experts should be brought in.

What channel do you watch btw? I mean no disrespect, but I think it's a global view than US news isn't the most professional or filled with the brightest people. It's perhaps a last resort sort of thing. There are some good international channels to watch things unfold.


Not sure what has prompted you to take this tone with me on the subject at hand. I am quite offended.

I am not in the US; therefore, I do not watch their news.

I was merely making a remark. If you don't know anything about Nuclear Power Plants, bring in the Experts (of course this is common sense, but news reporters are taking on roles that they should not be by reporting on these situations). You need to find an expert on the type of plant they are speaking of. In this case, we are talking about a BWR/4 if I recall correctly.

Not all Nuclear experts will know how a BWR/4 operates (that's a fact).


----------



## JY

No more updates?


----------



## 98uk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mega_option101*


Not sure what has prompted you to take this tone with me on the subject at hand. I am quite offended.

I am not in the US; therefore, I do not watch their news.

I was merely making a remark. If you don't know anything about Nuclear Power Plants, bring in the Experts (of course this is common sense, but news reporters are taking on roles that they should not be by reporting on these situations). You need to find an expert on the type of plant they are speaking of. In this case, we are talking about a BWR/4 if I recall correctly.

Not all Nuclear experts will know how a BWR/4 operates (that's a fact).


Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as rude, that's not how I intended what I wrote to sound like. What I meant was, it's a bit ridiculous to expect a news reader to know the ins and outs of every single story. A good news channel will accept that and always bring in experts. The rather more cheap, horrible ones try and have hosts bluff their way through technical terms and it comes off as awful.

I was implying that US news agencies (I assumed most broadcast in Canada as well (seemed to when I lived there)) are fairly well known for not being particularly good and therefore if you were getting frustrated with coverage, try and pick up some international channels like BBC or All-Jazeera. IIRC, there is one OK US news channel and that's pretty much it?


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:



Originally Posted by *98uk*


Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as rude, that's not how I intended what I wrote to sound like. What I meant was, it's a bit ridiculous to expect a news reader to know the ins and outs of every single story. A good news channel will accept that and always bring in experts. The rather more cheap, horrible ones try and have hosts bluff their way through technical terms and it comes off as awful.

I was implying that US news agencies (I assumed most broadcast in Canada as well (seemed to when I lived there)) are fairly well known for not being particularly good and therefore if you were getting frustrated with coverage, try and pick up some international channels like BBC or All-Jazeera. IIRC, there is one OK US news channel and that's pretty much it?


I think that there is a difference between: presenting a story with facts and interpreting the facts and telling a story.

I think that news reporters (that don't in fact know what is going on) should be presenting a story with the facts (ie// Japan's government has asked people living within 12 miles to evacuate and those between 12 miles and 18 miles to stay indoors). If they are not qualitfied to speak about the Nuclear Plant and what little information that we get from the officials then they should not be commenting on them unless to say that at xx:xx there was a H-explosion.

Essentially: Leave it to the experts to interpret the information in order to formulate an explanation of what is going on.

From what I gathered: you at least agree with me on that









________________________

With regards to the US news channels: I think that Canada does in fact get CNN. I do not watch TV so I could not tell you more. I listen to the radio (CBC) in order to gather my information. I have had to go else where to find out what they were also trying to convey.


----------



## aweir

these are the only reliable sites to get updates. If you don't find updates here, other sites are just speculating.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv

http://jibtv.com/program/fullscreen.aspx?page=0


----------



## AdvanSuper

1854: Some experts say the situation at the nuclear power plant may be stabilising: "We more or less do not expect to see anything worse than what we are seeing now," Hidehiko Nishiyama of the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency is quoted by the Associated Press news agency as saying.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


these are the only reliable sites to get updates. If you don't find updates here, other sites are just speculating.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv

http://jibtv.com/program/fullscreen.aspx?page=0


Not quite the only ones:

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/japan_nuclear_crisis/

http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2

^ these are news agencies, so they get the information firsthand. The newspapers/sites and the broadcasters either copy-paste the info from the news agencies or attempt to interpret/reword it.

There might be other agencies that are providing breaking news on this matter, but I'm unaware of them.


----------



## AzO

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mega_option101*


All the rumors in the media is not helping the situation...

It sickens me to know how little news reporters actually know about Nuclear Power Plants.

From what I have gathered the past few days all of this was under control (yes there were some H-explosions, but they were to be expected). Given that the plant is in fact a BWR/4.


You got that right.

It's sickening how the news isn't reporting "news" because there's nothing "new" to report, instead they make it sound and look like a *theatrical movie trailer to inject panic and fear* among the population.

What's even more pathetic is how California reported the little waves hitting the coast making sound like the end of the world, oh gimme a break.









Everyday we see these little diagrams made by some idiot trying to explain a meltdown on the news when most of these morons can't even make themselves breakfast.


----------



## Zen00

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AzO*

Everyday we see these little diagrams made by some idiot trying to explain a meltdown on the news when most of these morons can't even make themselves breakfast.


Why bother? That's what having "people" is for.


----------



## Sm3gH3ad

I live in Vancouver, British Columbia which is across the pacific from Japan... will I be affected?


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zen00;12792503*
> Why bother? That's what having "people" is for.










Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sm3gH3ad;12792701*
> I live in Vancouver, British Columbia which is across the pacific from Japan... will I be affected?


----------



## Hyoketsu

NEWS ADVISORY: Self-Defense Forces begin water spraying at ***ushima's No. 4 reactor (08:32) - Kyodo

Water spraying goes on, return of power helps cool down reactor - Kyodo

Looking good so far...
*knocks on wood*


----------



## AdvanSuper

Some BBC updates since the OP hasn't been updated -


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



0000: Welcome to day nine of our live coverage of Japan's earthquake and tsunami disaster. Stay with us for the latest updates - reports from our correspondents on the ground, expert analysis and your reaction from around the world. You can contact us via e-mail, text or twitter. We'll publish what we can.

0001: US Ambassador John Roos in Tokyo tweets: "If we determine that radiation poses a threat to public health, we will immediately share that information and provide relevant guidance."

0016: Joseph Tame in Meguro, Tokyo tweets: "Every day more emails of support for Japan from around the world - many from folks I've not had contact with for years. Appreciated."

0031: Japan's Prime Minister Naoto Kan says he will bring opposition politicians into his cabinet, Reuters reports, quoting the Japanese news agency Jiji.

0037: Engineers are accelerating efforts to restore cooling functions to reactors at the damaged ***ushima plant on Saturday, reports Kyodo news agency. They are hoping to reconnect the electricity to reactor number 2 later today.

0040: Dave in Tokyo writes: "I am in Tokyo without a passport...it's in Hong Kong being proceesed at their regional passport office and I cannot get an emergency travel document until Tuesday because the embassy is closed for the weekend and then on Monday they have a national holiday here which the embassy is observing. They are telling me to go there during normal office hours. This is unbelievable." Have Your Say

0044: Members of Tokyo Fire Department's 'hyper rescue team' have joined the operation to cool down reactor 3 by spraying it with 90 tonnes of water, according to Kyodo.

0051: English language paper The Daily Yomiuri tweets: "Ibaraki Pref's agriculture industry has started radiation checks on produce in a bid to dispel any harmful rumors that could hurt business."

0107: If you're just joining us, welcome to our live coverage of Japan's earthquake and tsunami disaster. Stay with us for the latest updates - reports from our correspondents on the ground, expert analysis and your reaction from around the world. You can contact us via e-mail, text or twitter. We'll publish what we can.

0110: Tokyo Electric Power Company says it will not be carrying out area-by-area power rationing today, according to Kyodo. The company expects electricity demand to stay low since most businesses are not operating at the weekend and there is warm weather expected.

0113: A survivor of the earthquake and tsunami has been found eight days after the disaster, Reuters reports, citing NHK. There have been very few people brought out from the rubble alive in recent days.

0125: More on that survivor - Kyodo reports that it is a man who has been rescued in the town of Kesennuma.

0115: Christopher Jones writing on his personal blog, says: "An interesting tidbit about dinner that you won't hear on Report from the Gates of Hell is that we had salad that came from Disneyland. During the tsunami that followed the earthquake last Friday the parking lot of Tokyo Disneyland was flooded and the park has been closed since. (They are scheduled to reopen on the March 21 from what I hear.) Because they closed unexpectedly they had all of this green salad that they could not use. So it has been distributed to grocery stores and a large bag is being sold for around ¥100 (around US $1.23)."

0131: The confirmed death toll from the quake and tsunami has risen to 7,197, according to Japan's National Police Agency, and another 10,905 people are listed as missing.

0135: Back to the story of the survivor - a relatively young man was rescued from a wrecked house, according to NHK. He is reported to be in a stable physical condition, but in a state of shock and unable to speak.

0137: US expat Ryan McDonald in Kitakata town, ***ushima Prefecture says: "It's a calm, beautiful day here today but people start lining up for petrol at 4am and the stations open at noon. I'm thinking about possibly volunteering at a shelter today. We are getting cabin fever and want to get out and volunteering would be good since we would be out and helping people. We've been stuck inside since Sunday - minus a few times going out for food." Have Your Say

0149: Danny Choo in Tokyo tweets: "Looks like they will be able to restore electricity to power the cooling systems at the reactors today."

0156: BritishEmbassy Tokyo tweets: "The British Embassy is open for emergencies around the clock. See http://ow.ly/4hFPR ."

0201: Tokyo fire department is to resume water spraying operations at ***ushima nuclear plant at noon, local time, NHK reports. The operation to cool fuel rods at the plant comes as workers continue operations to restore electricity to the plant.

0212: Building of some 200 temporary housing units has started in the coastal city of Rikuzentakata in Iwate prefecture, which was severely damaged in the earthquake and tsunami, Kyodo reports.

0216: The Daily Yomiuri tweets: "Govt says a cooling pump is now operating at the spent fuel pool at the No 5 reactor at the ***ushima No 1 nuclear power plant."

0223: "The plight of the thousands still stranded in areas near the stricken reactors, many too old or infirm to move, has underscored what residents say is a striking lack of help from the national government," writes Martin Fackler in a new piece for the New York Times newspaper.

0227: Japan has started using a cooling pump at the ***ushima plant's stricken reactor 5, according to several reports quoting the Japanese government. It is thought to be a diesel-powered pump, rather than a device powered by the still-to-be-reconnected electricity supply.

0242: Ken Mogi tweets: "According to NHK, the name of man rescued from broken house in Kesennuma on the 9th day is Katsuharu Moriya."

0255: Lee Thomas in Tokyo says: "We feel there has been a lot of scaremongering - especially by foreign media. The problem is this then makes our families back in the UK and elsewhere worry. My family doesn't understand why I don't leave. But I've got responsibilities - a wife and a child. It's not that easy to get away. We are trying to get on with our lives. I'm having a meeting with a financial advisor at the moment about mortgages. Yes, there are blackouts and delayed trains but these are inconveniences." Have Your Say

0301: If you're just joining us, welcome to our live coverage of Japan's earthquake and tsunami disaster. Stay with us for the latest updates - reports from our correspondents on the ground, expert analysis and your reaction from around the world. You can contact us via e-mail, text or twitter. We'll publish what we can.

0303: Engineers have yet to attach a cable to the damaged reactors but the plant operator says they hope to be successful either on Saturday or Sunday, Reuters reports.

0326: Japan's Deputy Cabinet Secretary for Public Relations Noriyuki Shikata tweets: "On-site workers continue their utmost efforts to re-connect power to the ***ushima nuclear power plant today."

0340: Earlier reports of a survivor being pulled from the rubble eight days after the quake appear to be incorrect. Kyodo news agency has withdrawn its story, saying the young man in question had been in an evacuation centre but then returned to see his ruined home, where he was 'discovered' by rescue workers.

0349: The operator of the ***ushima power plant says engineers have bored holes in the roofs of the buildings housing reactors 5 and 6 to avoid a potential gas explosion, reports AFP.

0350: ***ushima International Organisation has updated information on its website about what people in the area can do and where they can go: http://www.worldvillage.org/fia/kinkyu_english.php

0356: yankeereview tweets: "gas stations in #***ushima have $20 limits so they don't run out of change, typical japanese common sense!"

0359: Alex Shute in Misawa says: My wife and I are in Misawa, north of Sendai in Japan. We were evacuated here on Monday. Some of the group are currently flying back to the US, some are on the US Air force base in Misawa in the north, and some of us - including my wife and I - are in a hotel waiting for clearance to go back to Sendai to help in relief there. Many of the families on the military base have been donating clothing and other items and sending the supplies back. I was worried at first but I'm not any longer. I feel it is safe enough for us. Since we've been here in Misawa, we've been trying to get in touch with people we know who were living on the coast. We haven't heard back from everyone.." Have Your Say

0403: Tepco says temperatures have fallen in the spent nuclear fuel pool at reactor 5, reports Kyodo.

0409: The Yomiuri Shimbun claims the Japanese government did turn down a US offer of technical help to cool the overheating nuclear reactors, soon after the earthquake. The paper, citing an anonymous senior member of the Democratic Party, said the offer was refused because it was felt to be "premature". Last week Tokyo denied turning down an American offer of help.

0422: The US State Department is strongly urging Americans in Japan to consider leaving and advising those who were planning to go to Japan to defer the trip. The US is also expanding the area for voluntary evacuations for family members of US personnel in Japan.

0434: The BBC's Japan correspondent Roland Buerk says the government is asking local authorities to prepare to receive survivors from disaster-hit areas. He says a stadium near Tokyo which normally hosts pop concerts may be used to house around 5,000 people made homeless by the quake. Nearly 400,000 people are living in evacuation centres amid shortages of food and power blackouts. And rebuilding work in the affected areas is expected to take some time.

0438: Richard Knobbs in Tokyo says: "Like many foreign residents I know, I am staying in Japan until there is no other option but to leave, and I don't believe it will come to that. My house is here, my family is here and my work is here. I have loved living here for over 11 years - it's my home and I still love it. I want to stay and offer the Japanese people the same support they've shown me since I arrived. I can't just pack up and leave." Have Your Say

0441: Sandor Benko in Anjo, Japan, blogs: "There is no running water in most places, which means no showers and issues with flushing the toilets. Not to mention laundry. In a culture that has the same word for 'nice' and 'clean' these are big issues. For the Japanese people I know it would be a pain beyond measure not to take a shower and wear freshly washed clothes every day, or not to have an impeccably clean toilet. I've no doubt this further adds to the stress of the evacuees."

0442: The website UK in Japan has advice on potential food and drink contamination within the exclusion zone around the ***ushima nuclear plant: http://ukinjapan.fco.gov.uk/en/news.

0451: Companies in other Asian countries are having to consider other sources for parts and products they would normally get from Japan, due to the severe damage suffered by Japanese production bases since last week's earthquake, reports the Daily Yomiuri.

0452: The Japan Times is reporting that an innkeeper is opening up his hotel to displaced people: http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110319b2.html

0510: Morgues and crematoriums in quake-hit areas are overwhelmed with the numbers of dead bodies that are being brought to them, the Daily Yomiuri reports. The paper says some local governments are considering burials - a practice that is not common in Japan.

0514: Martin Hollamby in Tsukuba, Ibaraki, Japan, says: "I live in an apartment block and although a lot of the foreigners have left, a group of us are staying. We've been taking the things the people have left behind and redistributed them so they go to those in need. We have a lot of research centres in this area and people with geiger counters and ways of measuring. I feel safe here, so I don't see there being much point in moving." Have Your Say

0521: Rember earlier reports that the Prime Minister was planning to invite opposition politicians into his cabinet to help deal with the crisis? Well, the leader of the main opposition party, the Liberal Democrats, said he would not accept any such request, though he hasn't received one yet, according to Kyodo News.

0524: If you're just joining us, welcome to our live coverage of Japan's earthquake and tsunami disaster. Stay with us for the latest updates - reports from our correspondents on the ground, expert analysis and your reaction from around the world. You can contact us via e-mail, text or twitter. We'll publish what we can.

0531: The Yomiuri reports that last week's tsunami reached heights of around 20 metres on the Sanriku coast, according to investigations by the Port and Airport Research Institute. The Sanriku coastline is jagged, a factor which apparently increased the height of the tsunami. Among their investigations, researchers found wreckage on top of a three-storey building near the ocean.

0545: Dozens of US citizens have been evacuated by bus from the city of Sendai, one of the areas hardest hit by the earthquake and tsunami, Reuters reports. One evacuee, Austin Lantez, said: "we are 100 kilometers away from the radiation and Sendai is starting to register some radiation already. And that is a major concern for me and many of our friends and family".

0555: The Japan Times reports on islanders who have been cut off from the mainland since the tsunami destroyed their bridge. Many of the residents of Miyatojima island are reported to be camped out at a school on a hill, having brought food, blankets and kerosene with them. Sanae Katahira was quoted as saying "it's like people are going back to the old way, to the time they had to sustain themselves as islanders when isolated."

0605: US Ambassador John Roos in Tokyo tweets: "The US Military has conducted 132 helicopter and 641 aircraft missions to assist with recovery and relief efforts in Japan."

0619: Government officials say spinach near the damaged ***ushima nuclear plant has been found to contain high radiation levels, Kyodo news agency reports.

0623: The government plans to lend up to $122bn (£75bn) to help quake-damaged businesses get back on their feet, AP reports, citing the Nihon Kezai newspaper.

0631: Officials say three or four kinds of farm produce have been found to be contaminated, reports Kyodo. Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano is reportedly due to talk about the contaminated food issue around 1600 local time (0700GMT).

0651: Exhausted engineers at the ***ushima have now successfully attached a power cable to the outside of Japan's stricken nuclear plant, Reuters reports, in a first step towards helping cool reactors and stop the spread of radiation.

0654: If engineers are unable to cool the reactor, Reuters says, the last option would be entombing the plant with concrete and sand to prevent a catastrophic radiation leak, the method used at Chernobyl in Ukraine in 1986.

0704: The Japanese army and firemen will aim to douse the nuclear plant with water "round the clock", the government says according to AFP.

0716: Chief cabinet secretary Yukio Edano is giving a news conference. He tells reporters that he believes the situation has been stabilised for the time being at number 3 reactor, where emergency workers have been able capture some water inside.

0720: Mr Edano confirms that abnormally high radiation levels have been detected in samples of milk and spinach from the region close to the nuclear plant.

0721: Mr Edano said emergency workers at the plant were still working on the restoration of power to the plant.

0723: To clarify, Mr Edano said radiation in spinach and milk from near ***ushima power plant broke limits mandated by food safety laws.

0725: Jessica Lynn Simpson in Tokushima, Japan, writes: "I live well outside the evacuation zone, but the fear of radiation is still very strong here. Some of my foreign friends have returned to their home countries, but most of us don't know what to think because of our distance from the crisis and strong ties to our Japanese friends and colleagues. At the moment we're just waiting." Have Your Say

0740: Expat Sophie Knight in Tokyo, writing for Heso magazine, urges foreign media to look at the facts in a balanced and measured way rather than, as she says, "sensationalising" by for example referring to a "toxic cloud" hanging over Tokyo.

0741: Joseph Tame in Tokyo tweets: "Staff at housing office told us that quite a lot of their tenants had left the country - nearly all of them foreigners!"

0748: Water-spraying operations have resumed at the number 3 reactor at the ***ushima nuclear plant, NHK reports. AFP quotes Defence Minister Toshimi Kitazawa as saying: "Instead of dumping water in phases we would like to set up an operation that will allow us to continuously inject water." So far such efforts to cool the reactors at the stricken plant have taken place intermittently, AFP explains.

0759: While levels of radiation were found in milk from ***ushima prefecture and spinach from Ibaraki prefecture that broke food safety limits, Mr Edano said, he also added that they posed no immediate threat to humans. That is unlikely to reassure many Japanese.

0801: Mr Edano said the health ministry had ordered authorities in both prefectures to investigate where the products came from, how they were distributed and - depending on their findings - suspend sales. He urged consumers to remain calm, noting that even if a consumer were to drink the contaminated milk for a year, the radiation level would be the equivalent of one CT scan, AFP says.

0819: An interesting article in Slate magazine suggests that instead of attributing the order and restraint shown by disaster-hit Japanese on circular "cultural" explanations, structural factors - "a robust system of laws that reinforce honesty, a strong police presence, and, ironically, active crime organizations" - may be more pertinent.

0825: The foreign ministers of Japan, China and South Korea are due to discuss co-operation in ensuring disaster preparedness and the safety of nuclear power generation in East Asia in Kyoto, Kyodo reports.

0829: The US Defense Department is preparing to dispatch an expert team trained to operate in areas contaminated with radiation, should the situation deteriorate at the ***ushima nuclear power plant, Yomiuri reports.

0842: Red Cross spokesman Patrick Fuller tells BBC radio's Today programme that the organisation is struggling to cope with the number of people displaced by the twin disasters in Japan. "They have over 700 personnel on the ground, medical teams going out to the evacuation centres, and we have teams down in ***ushima where the evacuation shelters are bursting at the seams. We had a call from one of the Red Cross teams yesterday, saying 'we desperately need more staff'. They were in a sports stadium with 2,400 people and there was just one team of 12 people dealing with the sick and the elderly there."

0850: Peter Payne, an American living in Gunma prefecture, also thinks some journalists have been overdramatising events in Japan. He tells the BBC: "There's a big difference between how some outside journalists have been presenting the situation and the reality here is. Some US journalists in particular have been using the most sensationalist language as if an imminent catastrophe is going to affect the whole country. People in Japan are concerned of course, but life goes on. We are running a business, shipping bento boxes. We've been in touch with all our distributors across the country - they are all open to business. The post office has been functioning every day."

0851: Peter Payne adds: "The main issue for have been the blackouts, but we try to adjust our working lives to them. There are bulletins about the blackouts, trying to be very positive about them - in a very Japanese way - like saying: 'Isn't it good that when there's no TV, the families can sit together and talk?' They are always trying to be positive, the NHK broadcasts feel like a calm hand on your shoulder."

0858: Clint Eastwood and Sandra Bullock are each to donate about $1m (£616,000) to the quake relief efforts in Japan, reports Japan Today. Lady Gaga also raised $250,000 by selling wristbands.

0902: Engineers have attached a power cable to a reactor at ***ushima nuclear plant but electricity has yet to be switched on, the nuclear safety agency said according to Reuters.

0907: Despite encouraging reports about progressing reconnecting power to cooling systems at the ***ushima plant, the BBC's Tim Willcox cautions that they are still nowhere near the process of restarting the pumps as it is unclear whether - given quake and tsunami damage - they even still work. Even if they do initially work, they could quickly short out.

0917: Is Japan's disaster warming often frosty bilateral relations with South Korea and China? As the three countries' foreign ministers prepare to meet in Kyoto, AFP quotes Japan's Takeaki Matsumoto as calling Seoul a "true neighbour" and saying he hoped Tokyo and Beijing could move forward after a bitter row last September sparked by maritime collisions. Both sent rescue teams to Japan.

0928: Jason Fullington in Tokyo tweets: "Latest news about Spinach and Milk already blown out of proportion by US media! They act as if it affects the whole country! #japan #wrong"

0933: Outside the exclusion zone around ***ushima nuclear plant, radiation levels are absolutely miniscule and nothing to worry about, points out the BBC's Tim Willcox in Tokyo. That's interesting, he says, given how many foreign nationals have left Tokyo and other parts of the country.

0942: A warm front in north-east Japan is bringing some respite to hundreds of thousands of homeless tsunami victims after days of freezing temperatures carpeted the region in snow and ice, reports AFP.

1006: Another earthquake has hit Japan, Reuters flashes - Tokyo buildings shook

1010: The quake which has just struck hit Ibaraki prefecture and registered magnitude 6.1, AFP says

1012: There is no tsunami threat and no immediate reports of injuries or damage, NHK says.

1025: There are still no reports of damage following the 6.1-magnitude quake that hit Ibaraki prefecture. Japan has been hit by hundreds of aftershocks since 11 March, many strong, but this one may cause additional concern as its epicentre is close to the damaged nuclear plant at ***ushima.

1041: Efforts by Prime Minister Naoto Kan to form a grand coalition with the conservative opposition in the wake of the disasters that have hit the country have failed after opposition leader Sadakazu Tanigaki refused the offer. But Mr Tanigaki reportedly said he would "spare no efforts to co-operate".

1043: Ben Griffiths from Koriyama city, ***ushima prefecture tells the BBC: "I am confident the [nuclear] situation will be resolved. I had a radiation check yesterday and I'm fine. I think there's too much focus on the nuclear situation and not enough on the humanitarian disaster in the foreign media."

1047: In contrast James Steward, a Canadian who runs an international school in tsunami-hit Sendai, tells the BBC: "The nuclear threat is hanging over people's heads. People here have learnt to cope with earthquakes and tsunami, but it's the not knowing what's happening with the nuclear reactors, which is the most difficult thing to cope with."

1056: There has been a rise in the number of known casualties from the quake and tsunami. Japan's National Police Agency now says 7,348 people have died and 10,947 are missing.

1117: During talks in Kyoto, the foreign ministers of Japan and China agreed to boost bilateral ties, Kyodo reports. Japan's Takeaki Matsumoto told China's Yang Jiechi at the outset of their meeting, "I hope we can take this opportunity to build a relationship of trust and work together to further deepen mutually beneficial and strategic Japan-China ties," it says. Bilateral ties have been strained since maritime collisions between a Chinese trawler and Japan Coast Guard vessels last September near disputed islands in the East China Sea.

1118: Dan Castellano in Tokyo tweets: "#NHK returns to scheduled programming, first time no #quake related news on any channel. Still have news update banners on screen. #jishin_e"

1121: The Oshika peninsula in Miyagi prefecture has moved 5.3m (17.4 feet) and dropped 1.2m since the devastating March 11 quake - both records for land mass movements in Japan - government data show, according to Kyodo.

1138: Russia is testing Pacific Ocean fish and other sea life for radiation as Japan battles the crisis at the ***ushima plant, AFP reports - but so far no increase has been detected.

1142 : The effects of the quake and tsunami are likely to push down gross domestic product (GDP) by a net 0.2% or more in fiscal 2011, which starts next month, Daiwa Institute of Research Ltd says according to Kyodo. The institute said factors including a slump in economic activity in affected areas, a reduction in production due to power rationing and a decline in personal consumption triggered by deteriorating consumer sentiment were likely to pull down GDP by at least 0.7%. But demand for reconstruction work would also buoy GDP by about 0.5%, it said.

1158: Midori Horikawa in Tokyo, writes: "Ungrounded panic and paranoia about the situation in ***ushima are making Tokyo a less than liveable place at the moment. I fear that the alarmist media and reactions of foreign governments are mostly to blame for this mass paranoia. Much of the non-Japanese media's reporting is based on pure speculations, prompting foreigners to leave Tokyo... With foreigners leaving the country, however, even the Japanese are growing distrustful of 'the government stories'. I feel that the whole nuclear scare is just a side show to the very real damage brought by the earthquake and tsunami. Have Your Say

1200: Power lines have been connected to the ***ushima nuclear plant's reactor 2 but electricity has not been restored yet, a spokesman for Japan's nuclear safety agency has said according to AFP. "If the power is turned on without checks it may malfunction. They are checking the facility now. If no problem is found at the facility today, the power will resume as early as tomorrow [Sunday]."

1211: The UN nuclear watchdog the IAEA says Japan has ordered a halt to all sales of food products from ***ushima prefecture, Reuters reports. It comes after the chief cabinet secretary Yukio Edano said radiation levels in milk and spinach from the region of ***ushima nuclear plant exceeded safety standards - though the radiation levels recorded still pose no serious risk to human health.

1216: A doctor at a clinic in the city of Rikuzentakataat, in the north-east of Japan, Usui Tomomichi, says patients there are calming down after the shock of the quake and tsunami. But he added: "I think the numbers of patients with mental illness will increase from now on. They've lost their house, they've lost their family members, and they survived somehow. But they'll think 'how am I going to live from now on? What has happened to my goals for the future?' They will wonder, 'What's the purpose of my life?'"

1238: Power has now been restored to some parts of the ***ushima plant, reports the BBC's Chris Hogg - though reports suggest the power lines to the cooling systems will only now be switched on on Sunday, after system tests.

1250: If you're just joining us, welcome to our live coverage of Japan's earthquake and tsunami disaster. Stay with us for the latest updates - reports from our correspondents on the ground, expert analysis and your reaction from around the world. You can contact us via e-mail, text or twitter. We'll publish what we can.

1300: More on that IAEA statement confirming the presence of radioactive iodine in food products from ***ushima prefecture. The statement says: "There is a short-term risk to human health if radioactive iodine in food is absorbed into the human body... Children and young people are particularly at risk of thyroid damage." But the IAEA stresses that radioactive iodine decays naturally within a matter of weeks, and the Japanese authorities have taken steps to counter any risks. You can find more here.

1305: AFP reports that the foreign ministers of Japan, China and South Korea have agreed to increase co-operation on nuclear power safety and disaster preparedness.

1316: South Korea's foreign minister Kim Sung Hwan has promised ''maximum support'' to people in Japan, Kyodo reports. South Korea will provide additional relief supplies of 100 tonnes of water and 6,000 blankets, a Japanese official is quoted as saying.

1321: Trace amounts of radioactive iodine have also been detected in tap water in Tokyo and five other areas, according to the Associated Press. The Japanese government says the amounts did not exceed government safety limits - but usual tests show no iodine.

1340: Reiko, from Nagoya in Japan, writes: "We Japanese are calm as usual, or at least we are trying. We are thinking about what we can do for the victims. We are trying to help each other. People from foreign countries are running away from Japan now. I understand their fear but I am Japanese. I trust Japan. I trust my country. I trust that we will get over all difficulties." Have Your Say

1345: Yukiko, from Kanazawa in Japan, writes: "My parents, my sisters and their families, and many of my relatives live in north-eastern Ibaraki, about 50 miles from ***ushima Daiichi nuclear plant. They are suffering from continuous aftershocks and the fear of the radiation. They are also in need food or petrol which will enable them to go and search for food. I am trying to find some way to help people there, but cannot access the area because of disruption." Have Your Say

1401: Many Twitterers got flustered about a Wall St Journal report which suggested CNN was assembling a 400-strong team to cover April's British royal wedding - in contrast to the 50 on the ground in Japan. Richard Adams disputes this: "Seriously, that 400 CNN staff for royal wedding number is wrong. It's 125 tops, 50 from US + 75 UK-based staff." He says he has spoken to CNN himself.

1407: Hong Kong will hold a comprehensive nuclear emergency drill early in 2012, prompted by the crisis in Japan, the government says according to AFP.

1421: Japan's nuclear safety agency has told a news conference that cooling systems at two of the six reactors at the ***ushima Daiichi nuclear plant are now operable, NHK reoprts. An emergency diesel generator at reactor 6 has resumed operation and a cooling pump at reactor 5 is confirmed to be usable.

1438: "The power of nuclear fission and fusion belong in the stars. And that is where they should stay. The recent catastrophe in ***ushima is a strong vindication of this truth," argues Tilman Ruff - chair of the International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons - in an opinion piece published by Kyodo News.

1444: The UK's foreign office has issued advice to UK nationals in Japan "on what action you should take if radiation levels increase in any significant way" - including taking shelter, decontaminating, and taking stable iodine tablets. But it cautions that a "significant increase in the radiation levels in Tokyo, well outside the exclusion zone, would only occur in a worst case scenario".

1450: Matthew Reinschmidt tweets: "Whatever happens the '***ushima 50' deserve @Time Magazine's person(s) of the year for 2011. 'Prepared to die to prevent meltdown' #Japan"

1456: The coastal city of Rikuzentakata, Iwate prefecture, became the first among quake-hit municipalities to get temporary housing for evacuees on Saturday as construction of about 200 30-sq-m (323 sq feet) prefabricated housing units started on the grounds of a junior high school, Kyodo reports.

1515: Chris Salzberg at the Global Voices blog translates a series of tweets by @kir_imperial, a member of the Japanese army who was among the first on the scene following the giant tsunami of 11 March. The detail of his experience is fascinating, if horrifying - and he is also capable of humour despite witnessing such devastation: "Does insurance cover exposure to radiation? Hmm..."

1520: The UN has been tracking radiation from the ***ushima plant, showing that levels taken elsewhere in the country, as well as in Russia and California, are minuscule, a diplomat with access to the readings has told AP.

1525: Carsten, from Osaka, Japan, writes: "I am wondering how I can help the people in the disaster areas. I am living in Osaka and life here is as usual. But you can see more foreigners from Tokyo and the hotels are almost booked up. Last week I donated 30,000 yen, but next week I have days off and I am thinking about going to the North East in order to help people." Have Your Say

1536: The British embassy in Tokyo has posted some advice on its website on the risk of food contamination around the ***ushima nuclear plant. It says "the most significant risk from drinking water is microbiological not radiological" but recommends people use bottled water if that is available.

1543: The IAEA is giving a press conference on the situation at the ***ushima Daiichi nuclear power plant. It hopes that power will be restored to reactor 2 today, which will then act as a hub to restore power to reactor 1. However it is not clear if water pumps have been damaged and if they will even work once power has been restored.

1547: Radiation levels in major Japanese cities have not changed since yesterday. The UN nuclear agency took measurements at seven different locations in Tokyo and in the Kanagawa and Chiba prefectures. However, while radiation has been detected, these levels are well below those dangerous to human health, the IAEA spokesman says.

1550: Lee Jay Walker, from Tokyo, Ikebukuro, writes: "Reports in some media outlets are not based on reality and instead they have helped to create mass uncertainty. Tokyoites in general are getting on with it and during the day you will see fashion shops full and the usual daily life - however, at night it does go quiet early because companies are preserving energy and trying to help the government." Have Your Say

1556: Japan's level of nuclear alert was raised on Friday, drawing parallels with the nuclear crisis at Three Mile Island in the US in 1979. But there are stark differences argues this report from the Associated Press which quotes one nuclear engineer who says: "It's probably not politically correct to say it, but TMI was a piece of cake compared to what they're facing over there in ***ushima, in terms of the problem".

1602: Minuscule levels of radiation from Japan's stricken nuclear plant have been detected on the western coast of the US, but officials say it poses no health risk, the Associated Press news agency reports.

1606: The PM's Office of Japan tweets:For people living in Tohoku and Kanto regions - How to protect from radioactive rainfall (Japanese Atomic Energy Commission). "Try not to go out unless it is an emergency. Make sure of covering up hair and skin as much as possible. In case your clothes or skin is exposed to rain, wash it carefully with running water. "

1613: Aid workers in the quake-affected areas have been sharing their experiences: World Vision News tweets: World Vision #Japan aid worker in Miyagi: moved by "many affected people caring for&helping e/o in such an unprecedented crisis"

1620: The IAEA has issued a correction to its earlier statement that Japan had banned food originating from ***ushima prefecture because of the risk of radioactive contamination. It now says that the authorities are merely considering a ban.

1629: If you're just joining us, welcome to our live coverage of Japan's earthquake and tsunami disaster. Stay with us for the latest updates - reports from our correspondents on the ground, expert analysis and your reaction from around the world. You can contact us via e-mail, text or twitter. We'll publish what we can.

1632: The key development so far: Engineers are trying to reconnect some of the plant's six reactors to a power grid. They have made managed to lay down connect one cable but electricity is not yet restored and it is still unclear if their cooling systems will work once power does return.

1635: The US Pacific Command based in Hawaii has just updated its website with the latest details on the relief effort in Japan. Its ships "report sighting much less debris at sea now, unlike a week ago when large debris fields [were spotted] as far as 20 nautical miles offshore."

1639: Eri Fumoto, from Tokyo, writes: "I am an 18 year old girl living with my family in Tokyo. Everyday I see heartbreaking pictures on tv and newspapers. I still cannot believe this is happening here in Japan. Events such as graduation ceremony have been called off. It is very unfortunate but we have to put up with it. I cannot help to hope that people in #Tohoku get back to their normal lives as soon as possible. I will do what I can for example energy saving." Have Your Say

1646: Officials are keen to put the amount of radiation present in tap water in perspective. Drinking one litre of watre with iodine at Thursday's levels [when levels were highest] is the equivalent of receiving 1/88th of the radiation from a chest x-ray, Kazuma Yokota, a spokesman for the ***ushima prefecture disaster response is quoted by the Associated Press news agency as saying.

1659: China's foreign minister has said China will provide "maximum support" to Japan for relief and reconstruction, according to China's Xinhua news agency. His comments came at the trilateral meeting of foreign ministers of Japan, China and South Korea held in Kyoto Saturday.

1713: ITN has this footage of the giant tsunami swell while it was out at sea, shot by the Japan Coast Guard. The coast guard ship, the Matsushima, was apparently five kilometres out at sea at the time. Crew members can be heard gasping and urging each other to hold on to something.

1719: This National Geographic photo gallery of the 20 most unforgettable pictures from the Japanese disaster is making the rounds on twitter.

1734: Notes from a Japan aid worker is the blog by World Vision's Mitsuko Sobata who is on the ground and blogging from the shelters and the ruins of the quake-affected areas .

1753: Six workers at the ***ushima Daiichi nuclear plant have been exposed to more than 100 millisieverts of radiation (Japan's normal limit for those involved in emergency operations) the AP news agency reports. As the crisis escalated, the government raised that limit to 250 millisieverts.

1800: Death tolls have been updated as well: The latest figures say 7,600 people died and more than 11,000 people are still missing.

1803: Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada tweets: "Canadians in #Japan who are not yet registered with our Embassy in #Tokyo should do so now (register online)"

1808: UKinJapan BritishEmbassy tweets: "#Japan: FAQs on the nuclear situation and travel advice to British nationals in Japan - http://ow.ly/4hTxr"

1812: US Nationals were moved by bus from Sendai to Narita airport. English teacher Steven Hatfield told the AP news agency: "I am very thankful to the American embassy, but I have mixed feelings leaving friends and family in Sendai."

1817: Relatives of the 50 workers left at the ***ushima Daiichi nuclear plant have been describing the conditions under which their loved ones are toiling to the Asahi Shimbun newspaper. One relative quoted a worker who was evacuated earlier this week as saying: "I thought I would never meet you again. But I also feel bad about walking away alone." The "***ushima 50" as the workers have come to be known have been the object of profound gratitude and admiration in Japan.

1828: An update on the six workers exposed to more than 100 millisieverts of radiation at the nuclear plant: "There has been no adverse effect on their health," one official from the Tokyo Electric Power Company told the AFP news agency. They are apparently still working at the plant but it is not known if they had been given different tasks.

1830: torque10 tweets: "#WHO Western Pacific Regional Office has issued this latest Situation Report: http://tinyurl.com/4rgeelc "

1838: Russia's Prime Minister Vladimir Putin visited the city of Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk in the Russian Far East to chair a meeting on the development of the country's nuclear power sector in the wake of events in Japan. He said there was no immediate danger from the Japanese plant. "The work is being done properly, in the right way -- 24 hours a day," he said of radiation monitoring efforts by Russian authorities, according to the Reuters news agency.

1841: The cloud plume from ***ushima has now reached the western Atlantic, but radioactivity is likely to be "extremely low" with no impact on health or the environment, France's Institute for Radiological Protection and Nuclear Safety (IRSN) says, according to the AFP news agency.

1842: Victoria F, from Tokyo, writes: "The somewhat shameful mass exodus of foreigners from Tokyo may not be such a bad thing after all. Less people in Tokyo = less electricity being used + less people trying to buy food + less gas guzzlers filling up at the petrol station, and so on." Have Your Say

1854: Some experts say the situation at the nuclear power plant may be stabilising: "We more or less do not expect to see anything worse than what we are seeing now," Hidehiko Nishiyama of the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency is quoted by the Associated Press news agency as saying.

1908: John Loynes is a British citizen with a young child living in Iwaki city, ***ushima prefecture, just 50 km south of the reactor. He told the BBC about conditions there: "Here in Iwaki city it is difficult to get necessary supplies - food is running low...We are not too worried about radiation exposure - we are just staying away from that part of the city."

1920: Some cities in north-eastern Japan are beginning the long process of reconstruction eight days on from the devastating quake and tsunami. In the badly-damaged coastal city of Rikuzentakata in Iwate prefecture construction has begun on 200 temporary housing units, Japan's Kyodo news agency says.

1933: Another smaller quake, possibly an aftershock, has struck off the eastern coast of Honshu, the coastline worst affected by the quake and tsunami on 11 March, the United States Geological Survey reports.

2000: This map purports to show in staggering detail the amount of radiation in the air in each prefecture of Japan.

2005: Fox News is covering the unusual story of animal rescue groups who are trying to reunite pets with their owners after the tsunami.

2011: The UK's Energy Secretary Chris Huhne tells the Observer newspaper that events in Japan may force a rethink of Britain's nuclear strategy.

2017: The UN's nuclear chief Yukiya Amano has arrived in Vienna after his trip to Japan. He tells reporters that the Japanese authorities are strengthening their efforts to deal with the nuclear issue.

2021: Reuters quotes Mr Amano as saying: "My impression is that the Japanese side is strengthening activities to overcome, to stabilise the reactors. I hope that safety, stability will be recovered as soon as possible. But I still don't think it is time to say that I think they are going in a good direction or not."

2024: A reminder that Mr Amano and a team of experts have been in Japan monitoring radiation levels and the actions being taken to sort out the ***ushima reactors. He is set to brief the IAEA's board of governors on Monday.

2030: Esri.com is another site with a remarkable array of maps covering events in Japan.

2035: The New York Times has a thought-provoking piece on the plight of Japan's food industry, with one sushi expert commenting that the seafood industry might face a battle to prove the safety of its produce, "not unlike the challenges faced by gulf fishermen in the US after the BP oil spill".

2042: Russia's Vladimir Putin offers an energy swap deal that he says will help Japan. He wants to boost pipeline gas supplies to Europe, and divert Europe-bound tankers carrying liquid natural gas to Japan.

2044: Alexander Ananenkov, boss of Russian energy firm Gazprom, says supplying Europe with 60m cubic metres of pipeline gas will free up 40,000 tonnes of LNG. Reuters quoted him as saying: "It is possible to do immediately, right now. Such large scale swap operation between Russia and the European Union will provide real help for Japan."

2047: In response to Victoria F's e-mail (see 1842), James, from Tokyo, writes: "I think it is unfair to characterise those who have chosen to leave Tokyo for a short break as 'shameful' or having 'panicked'. Most people who have left understand that of course there is no radiation in Tokyo. They also know that the risk from the reactors in their current state is low. The difference is that most of those who have left Tokyo have taken the time to understand that TEPCO's admissions over the suspected multiple open-air fuel rod fires are very serious, and that the situation could get further out of hand very quickly. " Have Your Say

2049: More on Russia's offer of help: Mr Putin is also saying that Japanese firms can buy stakes in eastern Siberia's huge gas fields. Reuters quote him as saying: "We are offering Japanese companies the opportunity to enter some of the biggest energy projects of the Far East and Siberia, to invest capital and technology to develop large scale deposits such as Kovykta and Chayanda."

2059: Burma has also announced that it will be scanning passengers returning from Japan for radioactivity, Kyodo news agency reports.

2102: Russell Bowley from Kasukabe, Japan writes: "Leaving Tokyo yesterday on a planned trip to see a sick relative, I felt like I wanted to tell everyone that I wasn't another foreigner running away. The situation in Tokyo is showing the early signs of recovery. Supermarket and convenience store stocks are rising; trains are running more frequently. I'll be back for the new school term in April, confident that Japanese efficiency will be winning the battle." Have Your Say

2105: Thirteen long hours after they began spraying water at the ***ushima nuclear reactor, fire fighters have ended their operation, the Kyodo news agency reports.

2109: Three Japanese artists publish their work in the wake of the tsunami in the New York Times.

2114: The financial toll of the earthquake is being assessed by companies with a stake in Japan. General Motors has announced that it will cut spending across the company in an effort to preserve cash - it has a shortage of parts made in Japan, according to the Associated Press news agency.

2125: Foreign businesses have been moving out of Tokyo as a result of the quake, Japanese newspaper Asahi Shimbun reports. It follows an earlier report from the Japan Times that Osaka was the destination of choice for a number of businesses uncertain about the effects of radiation and affected by frequent electricity blackouts.

2130: The Huffington Post has this article about the experiences of Hollywood band Black Veil Brides who were touring in Japan at the time of the earthquake.

2141: Homeless people - about half a million of them - in the north-east of Japan are struggling to stay warm with diminishing supplies of food and fuel, the AFP news agency reports.

2147: Jun Morikawa from Tokyo, writes: "Never was so much owed by so many to so few." Sir Winston Churchill praised those brave and noble soldiers who were at the time fighting the Battle of Britain. His famous speech applies to those few courageous folks (technicians, fire-fighters and Self-Defense Forces officers) fighting the nuclear crisis at the ***ushima plant. No one could ever find the words to thank them for their incredible determination and commitment to save the nation at their own peril." Have Your Say

2158: The impact of the earthquake in figures: At least 1.04 million households were without running water; at least 1170,000 buildings were damaged with at least 14,623 completely destroyed; about 257,000 homes were without electricity and about About 362,580 people have been evacuated and are staying at shelters the Reuters news agency reports.

2208: Japan's 9.0 magnitude earthquake was so poweful that it sent ripples through the ground water in South Floria in the US, the Sun Sentinel newspaper reports. Gauges used by the South Florida Water Management District picked up unusual activity about 30 minutes after the quake, the paper reported.


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## strap624

So this is finally starting to "cool off" huh? Good to hear.


----------



## Imglidinhere

I, and several friends of mine in town, believe that this Nuclear Power Plant crisis is just a cover story for Godzilla terrorizing Tokyo again.


----------



## d0gr0ck

Quote:


> 1211: The UN nuclear watchdog the IAEA says Japan has ordered a halt to all sales of food products from ***ushima prefecture, Reuters reports.


Quote:


> 1620: The IAEA has issued a correction to its earlier statement that Japan had banned food originating from ***ushima prefecture because of the risk of radioactive contamination. It now says that the authorities are merely considering a ban.


That's really not to comforting if the IAEA can't keep its facts straight. The different between banned and still mulling it over has pretty big implications on world opinion of the current situation.


----------



## Lefty67

Im guessing no Japanese mandarin oranges next christmas


----------



## kenolak

Suprised to see only 4 reactors listed as failing cooling. 4 were failing the day of the quake, no less than others days after due to power failures, none of which have been fixed peroply yet, and were statlite noticed for stage 4+ metldown blasts.good thing i have no clue *** i'm talking about. Anyone want xbox/wii games on their ps3... not joking.


----------



## AzO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lefty67;12797248*
> Im guessing no Japanese mandarin oranges next christmas


On a more serious note. If this radiation doesn't get contained and when **** hits the fan, if it hasn't already, Japan's agriculture in the affected area will be useless for decades to come.

I just hope this doesn't affect their most popular fish, maguro (tuna).


----------



## bogey1337

I hope the nuclear reactor problem has turned for the better. Cant find any interesting updates recently. CNN is back on covering Libya. My prayers go to everyone that got devestated in Japan. Also the people working close to the reactors should be honored.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Ty chunky chimp


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Seriously guys, enough with the Godzilla jokes and stay on topic.


----------



## lifeskills

Thanks for keeping this thread going, everyone thats involved, with updates, cleaning, and reliable info. Sure is moving fast, and I have been reading it since it started, just not knowledgeable in the subject so I haven't been posting, just taking it all in. Just wanted to say that, and I have Japan in my thoughts.

Peace.


----------



## Hyoketsu

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/79755.html

^ Info on the current status. Worth a read.

EDIT: Just in:

NEWS ADVISORY: Electricity supplied to ***ushima No. 2 reactor: TEPCO (17:23) - Kyodo


----------



## Killam0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12798800*
> EDIT: Just in:NEWS ADVISORY: Electricity supplied to ***ushima No. 2 reactor: TEPCO (17:23) - Kyodo


Better late then never? IDK.







Japan

AND Yes I am poking japan with a stick.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

They still have to replace the pumps, which we're sending over; they ruined the ones in them when they injected seawater.


----------



## Johnny Guitar

can someone do a tl;dr of what is happening atm?


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Johnny Guitar;12799096*
> can someone do a tl;dr of what is happening atm?


Check my post above.

Also, just in:
NEWS ADVISORY: Water doused on ***ushima No. 4 reactor on Sun. for 2nd time (18:36) - Kyodo


----------



## Hyoketsu

This deserves a double-post bump:

NEWS ADVISORY: Seawater pumped into spent fuel pool of ***ushima No. 2 reactor (20:23)

*BREAKING NEWS: ***ushima No.6 reactor goes into stable condition under cold shutdown (20:04)*

^ Kyodo


----------



## Voidsplit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12799435*
> This deserves a double-post bump:
> 
> NEWS ADVISORY: Seawater pumped into spent fuel pool of ***ushima No. 2 reactor (20:23)
> 
> *BREAKING NEWS: ***ushima No.6 reactor goes into stable condition under cold shutdown (20:04)*
> 
> ^ Kyodo


PM OP so he can update the thread, the last thing this post needs is more pages of random info.


----------



## DeckerDontPlay

Its raining her now as well. That should help.


----------



## Drizzt5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeckerDontPlay;12799529*
> Its raining her now as well. That should help.


Did you have that avatar before this incident?


----------



## DeckerDontPlay

Haha yeah and my system name was still Brain Scorcher as well


----------



## mega_option101

At least they got No. 6 stable


----------



## Hyoketsu

Reactor 5 reached a cold shutdown state as well:
URGENT: ***ushima No. 5, No. 6 reactors stable after cold shutdown - Kyodo


----------



## sLowEnd

hurrah


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu*


Reactor 5 reached a cold shutdown state as well:
URGENT: ***ushima No. 5, No. 6 reactors stable after cold shutdown - Kyodo


Good stuff


----------



## ENTERPRISE

That's good news !


----------



## Hyoketsu

The upper part of reactor 3's containment vessel is apparently at 128C. A shutdown is considered to be "cold" once the water temperature in the reactor drops below ~100C (wiki states ~95C).
No info on the others yet. The GSDF will be using a couple of Type 74 tanks to clear away some rubble that is hampering the water-spraying efforts.

Read more in the following Kyodo article: Electricity returns to some ***ushima reactors, but tension remains

Ah, you might also want to check out the Radioactive spinach article. Now I know where Popeye gets his power boost from


----------



## mega_option101

Almost there... Although, I wonder what the temperatures were at before :/


----------



## shnur

Did they end up firing up the cooling system of the second reactor?


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shnur;12805005*
> Did they end up firing up the cooling system of the second reactor?


Well, the power was restored, but the cooling part is a tad confusing:
Quote:


> Meanwhile, a total of 40 tons of seawater was pumped into the spent-fuel tank of the No. 2 unit, using a makeshift power source.


I don't really know what to make of this, but I'm guessing the cooling hasn't been properly restored yet or the news agencies would be all over it.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

The problem is, like I said, they ruined the pumps when they pumped seawater into the units, so we're sending replacements.


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;12805155*
> The problem is, like I said, they ruined the pumps when they pumped seawater into the units, so we're sending replacements.


I suppose the last thing they were worrying about was getting that seawater filtered









I wonder what kind of damages it will have on the reactors as well


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mega_option101;12805184*
> I suppose the last thing they were worrying about was getting that seawater filtered
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what kind of damages it will have on the reactors as well


It'll cause some rusting I think; at any rate the reactor cores have been rendered useless in units 1-4, though I don't think that matters right now given the reason for them doing it.


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;12805204*
> It'll cause some rusting I think; at any rate the reactor cores have been rendered useless in units 1-4, though I don't think that matters right now given the reason for them doing it.


What they need to focus on is shutting them down safely...

They'll need to rebuild at any rate either way. Hopefully, upgrade this BWR/4


----------



## shnur

I think they're pumping water via the fire trucks like they were before... seems to be working for now...


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mega_option101;12805309*
> What they need to focus on is shutting them down safely...
> 
> They'll need to rebuild at any rate either way. Hopefully, upgrade this BWR/4


***ushima nuclear plant to be decommissioned: Gov't
Not much of a surprise there...
Even though the reactors could probably be rebuilt and modernized, try explaining that to the masses. IMO ***ushima NPP is screwed in this regard.


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12805449*
> ***ushima nuclear plant to be decommissioned: Gov't
> Not much of a surprise there...
> Even though the reactors could probably be rebuilt and modernized, try explaining that to the masses. IMO ***ushima NPP is screwed in this regard.


To be fair though... It was built in the 70's if I recall correctly...









Technology has advanced quite a bit... I hope that they take that into consideration.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Grayish smoke seen billowing from ***ushima No. 3 reactor building
BREAKING NEWS: No change seen in radiation levels at troubled nuke plant after smoke (17:49)

^Kyodo

Quite peculiar. I wonder what that was all about.

EDIT:
BREAKING NEWS: Smoke also seen at ***ushima plant's No. 2 reactor: agency (19:16)
NEWS ADVISORY: Grayish smoke above No. 3 spent nuke fuel pool stopped: agency (19:21)


----------



## Toransu

I dunno if it's somewhat related, but I thought I'd like to share to you guys that we've just felt some small tremors here in the Philippines give or take an hour ago. I was phoned by my mom while I was out getting a haircut, and she warned me about it, even though she's a good 75KM away. She's no seismologist, but she pitches the impact to be at 4 to 5. This doesn't look too good, I'm hoping this isn't a prelude to anything.









Edit: Added source. Turns out it's 5.4

Link


----------



## Boyboyd

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


The problem is, like I said, they ruined the pumps when they pumped seawater into the units, so we're sending replacements.


The US government or General Electric?

If it's General Electric i'll be highly impressed, as they only made half of the reactors at the ***ishima plant.

Does anyone else think that the Sv scale is a bit... wrong?


----------



## shnur

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Boyboyd*


The US government or General Electric?

If it's General Electric i'll be highly impressed, as they only made half of the reactors at the ***ishima plant.

Does anyone else think that the Sv scale is a bit... wrong?


I guess it'd be the US Gov, they're helping some stuff out as far as I know...

Sv scale = severity scale?

If that's what you're talking about; I think we're still too unstable to say that we're ok; but I disagree with France putting it up to a 6 rating since nothing bad really happened yet.


----------



## Boyboyd

no Sv as in Sievert. The SI unit of radiation.

I think it's a crazy scale. The amount of radiation needs to me measured in mili or micro Sv.


----------



## aweir

Just plug in the generator and she'll be running like new.










This guy seems to think that melted fuel will burn through the reactor in about an hour.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP_P5PlqA1Y&feature=player_embedded#at=101
Quote:


> What you've seen in the past week will be insignificant by compare air ison


----------



## Trigunflame

I don't see how a melt through the bottom of the reactor's pressure vessel / containment = massive explosion as this guy seems to suggest.

In addition, I thought it has been said on multiple occasions that an event like Chernobyl was almost completely impossible due to the difference in fuel type?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boyboyd;12811255*
> The US government or General Electric?


I actually don't know but GE was already sending over diesel generators in case they couldn't get external power restored, so it may be a safe guess to say GE is sending the pumps, though it's more likely it would be the government.


----------



## _GTech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12810407*
> Grayish smoke seen billowing from ***ushima No. 3 reactor building
> BREAKING NEWS: No change seen in radiation levels at troubled nuke plant after smoke (17:49)
> 
> ^Kyodo
> 
> Quite peculiar. I wonder what that was all about.
> 
> EDIT:
> BREAKING NEWS: Smoke also seen at ***ushima plant's No. 2 reactor: agency (19:16)
> NEWS ADVISORY: Grayish smoke above No. 3 spent nuke fuel pool stopped: agency (19:21)


I think the severity of the nuclear plant & the aftermath of the damage is definitely not being laid out in open site, for fear of public panic...

The Japanese are downplaying the severity in open media...

The US is claiming they are lying...

The US Puts up multiple Radiation detectors on the West Coast...

The world is at a halt watching this crysis in Japan unfold & the Middle East crysis as well, both of which will have a serious impact on the markets, of this I'm certain...

(We have already seen some declines & stalemates.)

Fear is driving the stock markets over Japan & Middle East, people are pulling money out, including Japan, and many other investors, it's like this craze is going on in the backdrop of the aftermath of this travesty in Japan, though other factors, like the Middle East & Africa, are playing havoc in the Oil Sectors...

Higher Oil Prices means higher Food Prices people, and that's what started the whole thing in the middle east, the poor are revolting for horrible conditions & high food prices...

I'm starting to wonder where this is all going to go in the end, and no I don't think Japan is being honest either, if the death toll continue to rise, this could threaten to send Japan into a major depression... It's the millions of people who are fleeing & homeless in Japan that threatens to make this situation a lot worse than it needs to be...

Furthermore the contamination of food will drive food prices even higher as demand for export rises in the US...

I'm rather sick of the news on this whole thing myself, nothing good is going to come about this, and if chicken little wasn't screaming in my ear, "The Sky is Falling", then I'd have some hope for Japan right now, but as I see it, this nation is in devastation in the aftermath of the monstrous quakes, Tsunamis, and now this Nuclear Crisis.

I think that Japan really needs help right now, and it's the responsibility of nations worldwide to lend a hand, and fast! If there was ever a time for U.N. involvement, now would be the time...


----------



## Hyoketsu

You should read the last few pages, the situation is steadily improving. Even the U.S. is going so far as to acknowledge that.
U.S. regulator says ***ushima nuclear plant stabilizing - Kyodo


----------



## wilykat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trigunflame;12815327*
> I don't see how a melt through the bottom of the reactor's pressure vessel / containment = massive explosion as this guy seems to suggest.
> 
> In addition, I thought it has been said on multiple occasions that an event like Chernobyl was almost completely impossible due to the different in fuel type?


Chernobyl had weird design that made them very unstable when they were running in low power. The low limit was supposed to be something like 700MW and the incompetent operators allowed it to dip to 20 before stabilizing to 200.

Then they started the test in which the turbine was supposed to supply the power to cooling system while the steam was stopped and the reactor in the process of shutting down. But that meant a moment with no cooling.

The lack of understanding of nuclear fission + reactor design + no cooling + fuel rod fully exposed + lack of safety like extra containment meant it blew up. The full detail are in wiki under chernobyl

All reactors design not based on Soviet style are much more stable and safer. The worst that can happen is a 6 on disaster scale with some significant radiation release but no boom-boom.


----------



## omega17

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;12815714*
> You should read the last few pages, the situation is steadily improving. Even the U.S. is going so far as to acknowledge that.
> U.S. regulator says ***ushima nuclear plant stabilizing - Kyodo


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12813937*


If you ignore the video originally posted with that image, it still makes a pretty compelling argument in itself that this is far from improving. What looks like Reactor 3 (with the spent fuel pool problems) appears to be much smaller than it should be, and indeed was a few days ago. Considering the spent fuel pools are housed in the upper portions of that building, and most of it is releasing black smoke, I'd say it's somewhere near a disaster. Not on the Chernobyl 'boom-boom' scale of course, but it's still not looking good


----------



## _GTech

NEWS UPDATE:

*Crowd-sourcing aids Japan crisis*

Quote:


> Man using a Geiger counter Users wishing to contribute to the site will need to buy radiation detection equipment.
> 
> People living close to the stricken ***ushima Daiichi nuclear plant in Japan are collaborating to plot local radiation levels.
> 
> The RDTN.org website allows people to submit their own radiation readings and maps them alongside official data.
> 
> It is one of several so-called crowd-sourcing initiatives set up in the wake of the devastating earthquake and tsunami.
> 
> Another website, JapanStatus.org, also offers similar information.
> 
> To contribute to the RDTN site people will have to purchase a radiation detection device and the site directs people to four sources of such equipment. A typical device currently sells on Amazon for around $78 (£47).
> 
> Readings submitted to the site suggest that radiation levels of between 0.178 - 0.678 microsieverts per hour can be detected in and around Onuma Hitachi City that lies south of ***ushima.
> 
> Progress appears to be being made to restore power to the ***ushima Daiichi plant although, according to official sources, the situation remains very serious.
> 
> Villagers living nearby have been told not to drink tap water due to higher levels of radioactive iodine.


Source

I'm sorry but how is spreading accurate information about the Radiation Levels helping again? Wouldn't it be a bad thing if the public thought for a moment they were going to all die or were in severe danger of dying? Anyway, despite that fact, it looks like the people there are not relying on Government Findings which tend to be polluted by Government filters of Censorship...


----------



## turkishmafia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nukefission;12743105*
> Grr
> my geography teacher ranted at me for asking if japanese could go live in russia
> aparantly 2/3 of russians hate japenese
> and thers some lebenese/turkish mafia thats going to take over the world


Somebody call for me?


----------



## Tchernobyl

http://xkcd.com/radiation/

Probably the best chart for radiation numbers that I've seen.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tchernobyl;12816716*
> http://xkcd.com/radiation/
> 
> Probably the best chart for radiation numbers that I've seen.


*unless its a bananaphone.

Epic, thanks for posting.


----------



## EvanPitts

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trigunflame;12815327*
> I don't see how a melt through the bottom of the reactor's pressure vessel / containment = massive explosion as this guy seems to suggest.
> 
> In addition, I thought it has been said on multiple occasions that an event like Chernobyl was almost completely impossible due to the difference in fuel type?


You would be correct, as the geometry required for prompt criticality would be very difficult to attain. It is difficult to attain even with precisely controlled parts hurled together with precisely times shaped charges. The real problem would be if a geometry formed that started a sustained chain reaction that would create a high neutron flux (making it very difficult to work in the vicinity), and would start to heat up once again to super-boiling temperatures.

Chornobyl "exploded" because of prompt criticality, caused by a reactor design that had an excessive positive void coefficient which, once coolant was removed, allowed for supercriticallity to be attain within 4mS. These beasts, on the other hand, are simply melting into a glassy slop that will probably look like hardened lava.

Dangerous, yes, but probably not set to explode. Considering what happened to the plants, it is lucky that much of it is still on land, at least near where it was prior to the massive earthquake - tsunami that ruined it.


----------



## SgtSpike

I think people are a lot more worried about a radioactive fire than an explosion.


----------



## aweir

I've created a motivational poster. Tell me what you think.


----------



## aweir

Radiation 1,600 times normal level 20 km from ***ushima plant: IAEA

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/80057.html

What is the radiation level near the plant???? it must be almost lethal.


----------



## shnur

1600 times at 20km is not so good... 2000 normal is ok near the plant actually. I'm not sure if it's just a single reading/location or it's spread out like this.


----------



## aweir

That's what they're not telling us.

First they said there was an explosion in the containment building due to a "steam buildup" and that the reactor was safe. Then when we found out there were spent fuel rods in the containment building and that the explosion was because the rods were giving off hydrogen, they played stupid for a few days and then said they were shooting water into the spent fuel pool to "avert a meltdown".. Only problem is... the containment building is GONE... the spent fuel pool is GONE.... So, WHERE ARE the fuel rods and why the hell are they saying they are trying to pump water into the fuel pool to cool it when it's obviously NOT THERE?????


----------



## Licht

No more news?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


I've created a motivational poster. Tell me what you think.











I think your link is broken.


----------



## Maxxa

I know this won't end up as important to be edited in to the first post but I just read somoene walked off with $500000 from a bank in Japan.

Quote:



The earthquake and tsunami that pulverized coastal Japan crippled a bank's security mechanisms and left a vault wide open. That allowed someone to walk off with 40 million yen ($500,000).


Source

You would think someone would be guarding it sheesh!


----------



## Hawk777th

http://www.zamg.ac.at/aktuell/index.php?seite=1&artikel=ZAMG_2011-03-21GMT10:22

Radiation Map German Meteorological Center.


----------



## Hyoketsu

All 6 ***ushima reactors reconnected to external power - Kyodo.
Great stuff


----------



## shnur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12821442*
> That's what they're not telling us.
> 
> First they said there was an explosion in the containment building due to a "steam buildup" and that the reactor was safe. Then when we found out there were spent fuel rods in the containment building and that the explosion was because the rods were giving off hydrogen, they played stupid for a few days and then said they were shooting water into the spent fuel pool to "avert a meltdown".. Only problem is... the containment building is GONE... the spent fuel pool is GONE.... So, WHERE ARE the fuel rods and why the hell are they saying they are trying to pump water into the fuel pool to cool it when it's obviously NOT THERE?????


I dont understand the picture and how you came to these conclusions.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12821234*
> Radiation 1,600 times normal level 20 km from ***ushima plant: IAEA
> 
> http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/80057.html
> 
> What is the radiation level near the plant???? it must be almost lethal.


Yeesh... that hourly rate (161 mSv/Hr) is double the TOTAL exposure for someone living 10 miles from the 3 mile island accident. Think about that... same distance, but hundreds or thousands of times worse radiation. In a day, you've received a years worth of normal radiation. In less than a month, you have enough radiation proven to give you cancer.

So much for people living there...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12821442*
> That's what they're not telling us.
> 
> First they said there was an explosion in the containment building due to a "steam buildup" and that the reactor was safe. Then when we found out there were spent fuel rods in the containment building and that the explosion was because the rods were giving off hydrogen, they played stupid for a few days and then said they were shooting water into the spent fuel pool to "avert a meltdown".. Only problem is... the containment building is GONE... the spent fuel pool is GONE.... So, WHERE ARE the fuel rods and why the hell are they saying they are trying to pump water into the fuel pool to cool it when it's obviously NOT THERE?????


Those hotspots look non too good...


----------



## aweir

This head game the mods are playing....selectively deleting links. Is really irritating me.

There is no spent fuel pool anymore...
Quote:


> I don't understand the picture (which was removed by the mods) and how you came to these conclusions.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12825040*
> This head game the mods are playing....selectively deleting links. Is really irritating me.
> 
> There is no spent fuel pool anymore...












After looking back and forth between the images you posted and the reactor design, I really cannot come to any other conclusion than what you also stated... there's no way the spend fuel pool is still there. You can see through the structure of more than 1/2 of the building.


----------



## PriceEddie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;12805204*
> It'll cause some rusting I think; at any rate the reactor cores have been rendered useless in units 1-4, though I don't think that matters right now given the reason for them doing it.


Rusting isn't really the main problem, to be honest the water will be moving past the reactor to keep the temperature constant. The issue really is the radioactive activation of the other molecules within the seawater which will obviously have to be disposed of once safely the cooling has been done. This is why they ideally used distilled or demineralized water.

Eddie.


----------



## Farfnarkle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;12825213*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After looking back and forth between the images you posted and the reactor design, I really cannot come to any other conclusion than what you also stated... there's no way the spend fuel pool is still there. You can see through the structure of more than 1/2 of the building.


I could be completely wrong, but I was under the impression that that diagram is not accurate for these reactors.


----------



## _02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farfnarkle;12826318*
> I could be completely wrong, but I was under the impression that that diagram is not accurate for these reactors.


I thought so as well.

I was under the impression that there was a large central pool in the reactor, where the rods were submerged in a circular organization. I don't see that in the image there, but I am notably uneducated about nuclear reactor design.

This is what I was working from:


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farfnarkle;12826318*
> I could be completely wrong, but I was under the impression that that diagram is not accurate for these reactors.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_02;12827086*
> I thought so as well.
> 
> I was under the impression that there was a large central pool in the reactor, where the rods were submerged in a circular organization. I don't see that in the image there, but I am notably uneducated about nuclear reactor design.
> 
> This is what I was working from:


You both very well could be right. This is the only diagram I've seen in related news articles, so I assumed it was right, but we all know how accurate news reports can be.


----------



## SgtSpike

This is an image of the actual reactor #4 spent fuel pool.









Here's another image of #4. You can see the blowouts of the walls relative to the crane above the pool.
http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/mar2011/1/5/image-1-for-japan-crisis-close-up-images-of-***ushima-nuclear-power-plant-gallery-500824119.jpg

The more I look around, the more I'd like to claim accuracy for the image I originally linked to as a diagram of the reactor. Every single diagram I find related to the ***ushima I plant has the same basic design: Reactor in the middle, then a boxy spent fuel pool to an upper side of the reactor containment.


----------



## Ikon

That picture cheats a lot.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_02;12827086*
> I thought so as well.
> 
> I was under the impression that there was a large central pool in the reactor, where the rods were submerged in a circular organization. I don't see that in the image there, but I am notably uneducated about nuclear reactor design.
> 
> This is what I was working from:


It looks like the cover of the reactor pressure vessel.
There should be a steel cover (like a dome) on top of that.
This is during a yearly maintenance.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12825040*
> This head game the mods are playing....selectively deleting links. Is really irritating me.


Go back to your post and click "Edit", it's still there; it simply seems like hotlinking that image wouldn't work for unknown reasons. *I did not delete any links.*


----------



## aweir

OK I understand. I was trying to embed a youtube video earlier and it was just appearing as a link. I couldn't get the video to play on the forum. I clicked the "embed" option under the youtube video and tried posting the code, php, I didn't know how to do like other are able to do, so I thought it was being blocked or deleted.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Just post the Youtube URL itself and it will auto-embed, no BBCode involved.


----------



## aweir

wow and thanks for the quick response.


----------



## aweir

The latest update is:

Work halted at reactor 2 after 500 millisieverts detected.

http://enenews.com/news-advisory-repair-work-halted-at-reactor-no-2-after-500-millisieverts-detected

Tokyo says radiation in tap water above limit

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/7486954.html

And it seems like this thread is dead.


----------



## xd_1771

So a good chunk of Tokyo is basically screwed if they drink the tap water.
That's 50 million thirsty people folks. 50 million. I have a bad feeling about this...

EDIT: Infants only, but I could foresee this becoming a serious problem if the levels rise
Nice to see that air radiation is now fine though


----------



## aweir

It's not safe for _infants_. They recommended that babies not be given tap water, although they said the water is not an immediate health risk for adults.

Meanwhile...The Health Ministry also advised a village in ***ushima prefecture not to drink tap water because of radioactive iodine in its supply. It stressed, however, that the amounts remained minuscule and posed no health threat.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/7483470.html

First they say don't drink it, then they say it poses no health risk.









This is the official update for Tuesday night. http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/80280.html

- Reactor No. 4 (Under maintenance when quake struck)

No fuel rods in reactor core, *renewed nuclear chain reaction feared at spent-fuel storage pool*, fire at building housing containment of reactor, only frame remains of reactor building roof, temperature in the pool reached 84 C on March 14, water sprayed at pool for three days through Tuesday.


----------



## shnur

I think it's a question of precautions, for now it's fine, but it could deteriorate quickly and become an issue. Also they can't chec
k every single particle of water for radioactivity level.

Article from Kyodo (March 23rd) has a pretty good update. (credit goes to post above me, user aweir)
Quote:


> -- Reactor No. 1 (Operation suspended after quake)
> 
> Partial melting of core, cooling failure, vapor vented, building housing containment of reactor damaged by hydrogen explosion, roof blown off, seawater being pumped in, work to restore electric power in progress.
> 
> -- Reactor No. 2 (Operation suspended after quake)
> 
> Damage to reactor containment structure feared, cooling failure, seawater being pumped in, fuel rods fully exposed temporarily, vapor vented, building housing containment of reactor damaged by blast at adjacent reactor No. 3, blast heard near suppression chamber of containment vessel, access to external power restored Sunday, steam seen rising Monday, pool holding spent-fuel rods filled with water on Tuesday with water temperature at 51 C.
> 
> -- Reactor No. 3 (Operation suspended after quake)
> 
> Partial melting of core feared, cooling failure, vapor vented, seawater being pumped in, building housing containment of reactor badly damaged by hydrogen explosion, seawater dumped over spent-fuel storage pool by helicopter Thursday, water sprayed at it from the ground for six days through Tuesday, workers temporarily forced to evacuate due to grayish smoke seen billowing from roof on Monday, lighting back on in control room on Tuesday.
> 
> -- Reactor No. 4 (Under maintenance when quake struck)
> 
> No fuel rods in reactor core, renewed nuclear chain reaction feared at spent-fuel storage pool, fire at building housing containment of reactor, only frame remains of reactor building roof, temperature in the pool reached 84 C on March 14, water sprayed at pool for three days through Tuesday.
> 
> -- Reactor No. 5 (Under maintenance when quake struck)
> 
> Some fuel rods left in reactor core, cooling in spent-fuel storage pool resumed Saturday, cold shutdown at reactor on Sunday, access to external power restored, power source switched to external power from emergency power on Monday.
> 
> -- Reactor No. 6 (Under maintenance when quake struck)
> 
> Some fuel rods left in reactor core, emergency power generator and cooling functions restored Saturday, cold shutdown at reactor on Sunday.


Seems like they got some stuff back, lighting in control room in #3, but that seems about it for the good news on that reactor.


----------



## aweir

The Japanese government now refuses to monitor radiation levels, relying on a simulation instead.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12839374*
> The Japanese government now refuses to monitor radiation levels, relying on a simulation instead.


Source? That sounds like a very bad idea...


----------



## aweir

http://www.livestation.com/channels/123-nhk-world-english

Actually it's because they can't afford to, until they cant get about $18,000,000,000 in more loans.


----------



## Tennobanzai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12839707*
> http://www.livestation.com/channels/123-nhk-world-english
> 
> Actually it's because they can't afford to, until they cant get about $18,000,000,000 in more loans.


lol i don't believe the fear mongering.


----------



## aweir

Well I didn't finish my post yet...

They are not reading radiation levels but the radiation levels are being read.


----------



## Buzzin92

not read the latest on here for a while... what was the news about the smoke coming from reactor 3 earlier?


----------



## gbatemper

FUUUUUUUUUUUUU
There goes my yearly trip to Japan.


----------



## aweir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzin92;12841424*
> not read the latest on here for a while... what was the news about the smoke coming from reactor 3 earlier?


The smoke is still coming out...
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/80585.html

Here is the link to all the daily updates on that site.http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/japan_nuclear_crisis/

Keep an eye out for the official "*Status of ***ushima nuclear power plants Wednesday night"* link on that site.


----------



## Buzzin92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12847561*
> The smoke is still coming out...
> http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/80585.html
> 
> Here is the link to all the daily updates on that site.http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/japan_nuclear_crisis/
> 
> Keep an eye out for the official "*Status of ***ushima nuclear power plants Wednesday night"* link on that site.


Thanks for the links. just been busy with college work lately, not had chance to read through the latest news.


----------



## Tennobanzai

Any updates if it's getting better or worse?


----------



## ENTERPRISE

As usual news networks are getting bored of this situation as I notice its not makeing the headlines as much as it was.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Follow the Kyodo feed. They regularly update it and the info is accurate:
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/japan_nuclear_crisis/

The latest news is that freshwater is finally being injected into #1 & #3 (#2 is planned to undergo this change of cooling on saturday), but now leaks (?) have apparently been found.
What the article actually states is:
Quote:


> A day after three workers were exposed to water containing radioactive materials 10,000 times the normal level at the turbine building connected to the No. 3 reactor building, a water pool with similarly highly concentrated radioactive materials was found in the No. 1 reactor's turbine building, causing some restoration work to be suspended, it said.
> 
> Pools of water that may have seeped from either the reactor cores or spent fuel pools were also found in the turbine buildings of the No. 2 and No. 4 reactors, measuring up to 1 meter and 80 centimeters deep, respectively, while those near the No. 1 and No. 3 reactors were up to 40 cm and 1.5 meters deep


Now, doesn't this beg for a "well, DUH, you've been spraying stuff with water cannons for 5 days!" ?
In other news, Tokyo tap water radiation levels have dropped below the 100 becquerel limit intended for babies.
Toddlers, rejoice!


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE;12866353*
> As usual news networks are getting bored of this situation as I notice its not makeing the headlines as much as it was.


Yup. Today's Outrage of the Day is ATC controllers at airports.


----------



## Playapplepie

So are the water pumps actually working? Last I heard they were afraid to turn them on since they could spark a hydrogen explosion.


----------



## aweir

something about a breach at one of the reactors. not sure...http://video.foxnews.com/v/4607358/japan-nuke-plant-reactor-core-may-be-breached


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12867365*
> something about a breach at one of the reactors. not sure...http://video.foxnews.com/v/4607358/japan-nuke-plant-reactor-core-may-be-breached


Lol. "Breach of the core"? At least do your homework, fox, geez:
Quote:


> Early Friday, concern grew that the high-level radiation leak detected with the workers' exposure Thursday could indicate possible damage to the No. 3 reactor vessel, but the government's nuclear safety agency later denied the possibility, saying no data, such as on the pressure level, have suggested the reactor vessel has cracked or been damaged.


^ Kyodo

"A number of workers"? Sure, it's a number - 3 to be precise. Fox makes it sound like it was at least a few dozen, though.

What's the point of watching the news if you later have to confirm whether they were accurate?








The TV nowadays...


----------



## _02

Fox just wanted to say "Potentially causing a severe radiation release" again.


----------



## 8-Ball

*Breach suspected at troubled Japanese power plant
*
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110325/ap_on_bi_ge/as_japan_earthquake


----------



## _02

I don't understand, one article says they fear a breach, but that the gov't maintains that the pressure in the container indicates otherwise, so there is nothing to fear. Then another article states that the pressure is stable, but there is still reason to worry?

Are they basing this all on the fact that someone stepped in radioactive water where they have been dumping water from the sky for a week?

Wouldn't one expect such a thing to be there? Why does this indicate a breach?


----------



## Krusher33

Sounds to me the news outlets are run by a bunch of Freddy Kruegers. They feed off fear.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:



Originally Posted by *_02*


I don't understand, one article says they fear a breach, but that the gov't maintains that the pressure in the container indicates otherwise, so there is nothing to fear. Then another article states that the pressure is stable, but there is still reason to worry?

Are they basing this all on the fact that someone stepped in radioactive water where they have been dumping water from the sky for a week?

Wouldn't one expect such a thing to be there? Why does this indicate a breach?


I'm with you. If pressure is being maintained in the reactor core, there's no way it could be breached. It's more likely the water came from cracks in the spent fuel pools, or just from dripping down from the spray. I don't see dripping water becoming as radioactive as they have found (causing skin burns and such), so I put money on cracks in the spent fuel pools.


----------



## omega17

^ I'm with this.

The spent fuel pools are obviously damaged, otherwise they wouldn't be able to spray water into them _from the side_









The problem still arises that you can't indefinitely have a fire truck there blasting it with water until the rods stop decaying, and until you can surround the spent fuel with water, you can't fix the pool. But you can't fix the pool until you've surrounded the fuel with water....... see where this is going?


----------



## Floy

Quote:


> Reports from Japan say radioactivity in water at reactor 2 at the damaged ***ushima nuclear plant is *10 million times the usual level.*


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12872707


----------



## shnur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tizmo;12885772*
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12872707


Wow... that is a LOT.








It makes me a bit worried about how they'll be dealing with this now...


----------



## aweir

This is all that there is left to say. Take it from someone living in Japan, not by some reporter in a comfy studio half way around the world.http://video.godlikeproductions.com/modules/vPlayer/vPlayer.swf?f=http://video.godlikeproductions.com/modules/vPlayer/vPlayercfg.php?fid=a5a3b1d0cc8fe970376 and when you see a grown man in tears crying out of frustration, anger, fear, know that there are over 4 million other people who feel the same way, who cannot speak out because their voices are being silenced.


----------



## unexpectedly

Well... That's why it's not already handled. They can't just rush in & fix things. This is a problem they get to pick at methodically and carefully. It will get sorted out, just not as quickly as everyone would like. It's still nothing like the 40s & 50s....


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12886676*
> This is all that there is left to say. Take it from someone living in Japan, not by some reporter in a comfy studio half way around the world.http://video.godlikeproductions.com/modules/vPlayer/vPlayer.swf?f=http://video.godlikeproductions.com/modules/vPlayer/vPlayercfg.php?fid=a5a3b1d0cc8fe970376 and when you see a grown man in tears crying out of frustration, anger, fear, know that there are over 4 million other people who feel the same way, who cannot speak out because their voices are being silenced.


Wow... that kind of helps make the whole thing a bit more real.

Wish the audio wasn't so out of sync. I wonder what he said in the last 30 seconds of the video.

Anyone know the actual evacuation numbers from Tokyo? He said he had many friends who were leaving or had left. Just curious what percentage is actually leaving.

And the fact that he has red spots on his face like zits, when he hasn't had them since he was 15. Yeah, that's scary stuff right there.

EDIT: Does anyone think that information is being purposely withheld in order to prevent panic?


----------



## Telimektar

Quote:


> EDIT: Does anyone think that information is being purposely withheld in order to prevent panic?


Of course, and while I support the government hiding some of the worst things so as to not create panic, they still should be a lot more transparent about what's happening, I hate fear mongering but if you listened to 75% on the people who posted on that thread everything is peachy it's just a very minor incident while it's clearly not.


----------



## 161029

Well that explains how small amounts of radiation landed in California.


----------



## Floy

Quote:


> Japan nuclear crisis: Radiation spike report 'mistaken'


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12875327

Hmm. Personally this sounds kind of dodgy. To me it sounds like they are just trying to contain any panic caused by that last report.


----------



## shnur

Quote:


> The UN's nuclear agency International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) has warned the crisis could go on for months.


From that same link as post above ^

It makes me wonder how people will be able to cope with that in a bit... I mean, the people were told to stay inside their house; anybody living between 20-30km radius.
How can you stay at home for such extended period of time? It's already been two weeks.


----------



## sLowEnd

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shnur*


How can you stay at home for such extended period of time? It's already been two weeks.


Search "hikikomori"


----------



## HowHardCanItBe

another earthquake in japan
Quote:


> apan has lifted a tsunami warning after a large tremor struck the devestated north-east coast early today , the weather agency says.
> 
> The Japan Meteorological Agency had earlier issued a 50-centimetre tsunami warning for the Pacific coast of Miyagi prefecture, which was shattered by the huge earthquake and tsunami that hit on March 11.
> 
> The US Geological Survey reported a 6.5-magnitude earthquake but then downgraded its strength. The epicentre was at a depth of 17 kilometres, it added.


http://www.theage.com.au/world/fresh-earthquake-rocks-japan-20110328-1ccf5.html


----------



## shnur

Well, usually they're fine up to 10m... that is a lot of events in a month though.


----------



## Blaze051806

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgr5PNkW7xI&feature=player_embedded[/ame]


----------



## xd_1771

So I've been hearing there's been another earthquake... a 6.5
EDIT: Never mind and tsunami is insignificant 50cm


----------



## robchaos

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-03-27/health/bs-md-radiation-monitoring-20110327_1_state-officials-radiation-traces-radioactive-iodine

Local radio this morning reported radiation had been detected in MD, but this article ambiguously states otherwise. It has been detected in small amounts in MA and PA though.


----------



## pioneerisloud

Have they finally gotten this thing under control yet? Too lazy to go back 100 pages (which is roughly where I left off).

I'm assuming there's still no risk to the West Coast of N.A., but what about Hawaii? My family is in Hawaii right now, I stayed behind because I didn't want to go that close to Japan.


----------



## shnur

It may take a few months or at least a few weeks before they get everything under control as we'd like it.
Most of the radiation that is sent in the air is dissolved within 5 minutes, so the risks for the West coast of US/Canada do not exist at the present state.
As far as I understand, the winds/sea currents naturally pass north of Hawaii and therefore don't affect it. There is actually less chance of radiactivity hitting Hawaii than California/Seattle.
Map of water current:









And these are the winds:









Looking at this, Hawaii is very nicely situated.


----------



## Krusher33

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shnur*


Looking at this, Hawaii is very nicely situated.


Oh but of course it is...


----------



## shnur

I meant its either in stagnant winds location or the water currents take stuff away from it. I wasn't sarcastic.


----------



## Krusher33

I didn't mean to imply that you were. Just saying Hawaii is perfect is all. Always the right weather and in the right spot and all. Only thing is though I'm hearing of increase in gang activities. Same goes for everywhere though.

A friend of mine whose parents is from Japan said "Just bury the dang thing already". He was referring to nuclear plant. Is this pretty much the general consensus or is this more of a hatred of what's happening to his roots I wonder? I didn't want to ask him in fear that it'll tick him off or something.


----------



## shnur

Oh sorry, it's a bit hard to distinguish sometimes. My bad


----------



## Exidous

Nothing wrong here in Hawaii except on Oahu there are too many people and the weather is always 80F.  Many people went to Leeward (west side) to see the Tsunami and were let down. I did hear that Maui and the Big Island got hit a bit hard though. The total damages seem to be over $30m. No radiation news at all either. Too far south for the jet stream to push much to us. It really is in the "perfect" spot.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krusher33;12906247*
> I didn't mean to imply that you were. Just saying Hawaii is perfect is all. Always the right weather and in the right spot and all. Only thing is though I'm hearing of increase in gang activities. Same goes for everywhere though.
> 
> A friend of mine whose parents is from Japan said "Just bury the dang thing already". He was referring to nuclear plant. Is this pretty much the general consensus or is this more of a hatred of what's happening to his roots I wonder? I didn't want to ask him in fear that it'll tick him off or something.


I think burying it has its risks as well... if it is buried, and they have no control over the cooling system, then the rods will eventually heat up again. They could go into a full meltdown state at that point, which means they would have the capability to melt through all of the concrete and steel barriers in the floor. If this happened, obviously, the contamination would be released to the environment, groundwater, etc. It would be pretty awful compared to what they are experiencing right now.

Another possibility is that the new containment or burying device is breached - whether that be through a man-made or natural disaster - and it would release a HUGE amount of radiation built up from the rods in their burning hot state. An earthquake could do it, if they buried it in concrete. A terrorist could also use it as an opportunity to perform some sort of sick radiological warfare, by blowing the containment up. Of course, that could happen at ANY nuclear plant, but you get the point. Burying it wouldn't be a completely risk-free solution.


----------



## Krusher33

Makes sense and he's pretty smart and probably would have thought about that. I think he's pretty upset about it even though he's only been there a few times.


----------



## Captain1337

Japan is in a really bad situation right now.


----------



## ProdigaliNKGaming

She'll be right mate.


----------



## aweir

Man, This just keeps getting crazier and crazier by the minute.
*
Crane collapses on fuel rods at ***ushima*

http://www.picassodreams.com/picasso...***ushima.html


----------



## Krusher33

Oh gosh...


----------



## omega17

SkyNewsBreak (http://twitter.com/#!/SkyNewsBreak) reported a bit sensationalistically that radioactive iodine has been detected in Glasgow (Scotland) and Oxfordshire, England.

Take it with a pinch of salt though. I'm sure a) you can't trace the source, and b) someone else in the 6,000 miles or so inbetween ***ushima and Glasgow might have noticed it first


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;12912850*
> Man, This just keeps getting crazier and crazier by the minute.
> *
> Crane collapses on fuel rods at ***ushima*
> 
> http://www.picassodreams.com/picasso_dreams/2011/03/crane-collapses-on-fuel-rods-at-***ushima.html


Does the video show proof? At work, so I can't watch it at the moment. If so, and the government has been lying about it.... all I have to say is, I told you so!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omega17;12915698*
> SkyNewsBreak (http://twitter.com/#!/SkyNewsBreak) reported a bit sensationalistically that radioactive iodine has been detected in Glasgow (Scotland) and Oxfordshire, England.
> 
> Take it with a pinch of salt though. I'm sure a) you can't trace the source, and b) someone else in the 6,000 miles or so inbetween ***ushima and Glasgow might have noticed it first


Big deal. Of course small amounts of radiation will reach around the world from this incident. As long as it's not anywhere close to harmful levels, it doesn't really matter.


----------



## _02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;12916859*
> Does the video show proof? At work, so I can't watch it at the moment.


I don't doubt there is information being withheld, but I'd like to know if there is any proof too. They show tangled wreckage of what looks like support structures.

When I read this:
Quote:


> The Nikkei, Dow Jones, and maintaining the corrupt nation-state system are more important than human life.


I stop reading seriously...


----------



## SgtSpike

Lol 02, I felt the same way about the article before the video.

Here's something else to chew on, though again, there's no proof:
Quote:


> The radioactive core in a reactor at the crippled ***ushima nuclear power plant appears to have melted through the bottom of its containment vessel and on to a concrete floor, experts say, raising fears of a major release of radiation at the site.


Quote:


> "The indications we have, from the reactor to radiation readings and the materials they are seeing, suggest that the core has melted through the bottom of the pressure vessel in unit two, and at least some of it is down on the floor of the drywell," Lahey said. "I hope I am wrong, but that is certainly what the evidence is pointing towards."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/29/japan-lost-race-save-nuclear-reactor


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Even if it is true its come to the UK, I have enough sense to know it is not a major danger.


----------



## Tweex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;12916859*
> Does the video show proof?


In the video about 3/4 the way in they have an expert giving details on each of the reactors. In one of the shots he shows the green crane pancaked onto the reactor.

Take it for what it's worth, but if I was Japan at this point I would evacuated everything north of Tokyo and possibly start making plans on how to evacuate Tokyo itself. I may be over reacting but I don't want to see what happened to the people in Pripyat, happen to the people in Tokyo.


----------



## nukefission

Can I have a rundown of the situation.
Wall of text is making my head hurt.


----------



## Tweex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nukefission;12917165*
> Can I have a rundown of the situation.
> Wall of text is making my head hurt.


Watch the video about 6 or 7 posts up and you will have a total rundown of each reactor.


----------



## Ikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omega17;12915698*
> SkyNewsBreak (http://twitter.com/#!/SkyNewsBreak) reported a bit sensationalistically that radioactive iodine has been detected in Glasgow (Scotland) and Oxfordshire, England.
> 
> Take it with a pinch of salt though. I'm sure a) you can't trace the source, and b) someone else in the 6,000 miles or so inbetween ***ushima and Glasgow might have noticed it first


Small ammounts of iodine 131 has been found in several countries in europe, but nothing life threatening.


----------



## Double Helix

Dead thread? Anyone have any up to date info?


----------



## fonzye

I hope nothing bad will happen,but if something goes very wrong this will be worse than Chernobyl.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Double Helix*


Dead thread? Anyone have any up to date info?


http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/japan_nuclear_crisis/

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fonzye*


I hope nothing bad will happen,but if something goes very wrong this will be worse than Chernobyl.


No. If you can be bothered to look through this thread (I admit, it's a loooooong one), you'll see plenty of reasons why it won't.


----------



## A-E-I-Owned-You

There are not many reasons it wont here or anywhere else. It is not over yet and the worst part is not behind us.


----------



## Lefty67

Just seen on CNN that they are dumping the contaminated water out to sea, they say it wont do much









There goes their fishing industry


----------



## luches

And now they are dumping tons of radioactive water back into the Sea . Yeh the worst case has yet to come -_- . I pray everyday for safety of those good folks at JP. My admiration for them grows larger everyday T_T . It just like taking another WWII damage in one day !


----------



## shnur

Yeah I was actually looking for info about all this water... I'm pretty sure it'll dillute among the rest and not be as bad as a contamination.


----------



## SgtSpike

The water they are dumping is 100 times over the regulated limit. Honestly, it won't take long for the vastness of the ocean to dilute it to below the limit.

And the vast majority of the radioactivity is still iodide (iodine?), with a half-life of only 8 days. Fishermen have already been warned not to fish in the area.

I'm not too worried about them dumping the water TBH.


----------



## damninhell

7.4 earthquake just hit japan, tsunami warning issued 4/7/2011 
Near the east coast of Honshu, Japan
just heard on my local news
........looking for source
if anyone could help with a source that would be great right now i have to leave


----------



## Licht

This is getting ridiculous.







They just can't catch a break.


----------



## shnur

Yeah; heard about that... Not sure about what's going to happen with waves though... hopefully no tsunami!


----------



## richuwo11

Location of 7.4 quake

There is a map from the US Geological Survey website of the latest 7.4 magnitude quake.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson

I find it strange that this is STILL not really getting any better, and people still don't care or maybe aren't even aware.


----------



## SpuddGunn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aaron_Henderson;13035996*
> I find it strange that this is STILL not really getting any better, and people still don't care or maybe aren't even aware.


The media will always find 'this weeks hot topic' and things soon get forgotten about


----------



## SgtSpike

Tsunami alert lifted.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/04/74-magnitude-earthquake-hits-japan-tsunami-alert-issued/1

On another note, two of the three new power cables they laid to the nuclear plant are no longer providing power.
Quote:


> Update at 12:01 p.m. ET: NHK World TV reports that external electrical power supply has been cut in two of the three lines servicing the Ongawa nuclear power plant in the Miyagi prefecture because of the quake. NKH reports that thepower lines "became unavailable." It says only one line is in service to continue to cool down the nuclear fuel, according to the National Nuclear and Industrial Safety AGency.


----------



## gammite

Quote:



Japan to raise nuke accident severity level to highest 7 from 5 
TOKYO, April 12, Kyodo

Japan has decided to raise the severity level of the accident at the crippled ***ushima Daiichi nuclear plant to 7, *the worst on an international scale*, from the current 5, government sources said Tuesday.


http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/84756.html


----------



## gammite

Quote:



TOKYO - The Japanese government's nuclear safety agency raised the crisis level of the ***ushima Dai-ichi power plant accident from 5 to 7, *the worst on the international scale and on par with the Chernobyl accident 25 years ago*.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42542906...s-asiapacific/


----------



## SgtSpike

So it's officially as bad as Chernobyl? What else has happened recently that they wanted to bring it up to that level?


----------



## Hyoketsu

Apparently, the high amount of radioactive leakage. However,

Quote:



Despite the changed assessment that puts it on a par with the 1986 Chernobyl catastrophe, the chief Cabinet secretary told reporters, ''Unlike in the case of Chernobyl, we have not seen cases of direct damage to health because of the accident.''


 So I'm guessing the issue looks just as bad on paper, but in reality, the fact that most of the stuff that makes you glow green has a short half-life and lands in the pacific saves the day.


----------



## finalturismo

Now i come back to say i told you so.......
This is far worse than Chernobyl

There is radiation being found all over the northern hemisphere...

The EPA is going to raise current "safe" background radiation levels... what a joke i cant believe people fell for all the propaganda the media puts out.

Just do a google news search on japan radiation and start reading

*Health Department: No threat from traces of radiation in Vermont milk*
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/a...yssey=nav|head

*Trace Levels of Radiation Detected in Hawaii Milk*
http://www.civilbeat.com/articles/20...n-hawaii-milk/

*Low levels of radiation all around us every day*
http://www.ajc.com/lifestyle/low-lev...on-905312.html

*US gov't may raise radiation exposure levels in food, drink, soil*
‎http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/305386

And i could get 100s of more articles


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *finalturismo*


Now i come back to say i told you so.......
This is far worse than Chernobyl


Yeah, I still don't get why people are comparing it to Chernobyl. Whether or not the radioactivity is as bad, the fact remains that they're dealing with FOUR reactors that are OFFLINE, not a single reactor that was online the whole time.


----------



## POONBERRY

I don't know why such a big deal is being made over such a small country.


----------



## Hyoketsu

@finalturismo
Oh, and you know this for fact because you rely on google searches, which, no doubt, all produce reliable material.

How is this 
Quote:



Originally Posted by *finalturismo*


far worse than Chernobyl


? Care to explain your PoV? Give _reliable _facts that support that claim?
Choose your words and sources carefully, my friend, 'cause there's still a lot of stuff you can't back up. Sure, for all we know, you might be at least partially right, but posts like that either show your bias or the fact, that you can't be bothered to back up your claims.

Ah, ninjaedit, updating mine in a sec, then.

Alright, now you have sources that either say "*traces* of radioactive material xyz" or come from "citizen reporters" and speculate about things from the few facts they know. 
When chernobyl went ka-blam, stuff was a lot worse. I still don't get how you managed to draw the conclusion that this is worse than chernobyl as of now.


----------



## PoopaScoopa

Another 6.4 Earthquake hit near Tokyo today


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *finalturismo*


Now i come back to say i told you so.......
This is far worse than Chernobyl

There is radiation being found all over the northern hemisphere...

The EPA is going to raise current "safe" background radiation levels... what a joke i cant believe people fell for all the propaganda the media puts out.

Just do a google news search on japan radiation and start reading

*Health Department: No threat from traces of radiation in Vermont milk*
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/a...yssey=nav|head

*Trace Levels of Radiation Detected in Hawaii Milk*
http://www.civilbeat.com/articles/20...n-hawaii-milk/

*Low levels of radiation all around us every day*
http://www.ajc.com/lifestyle/low-lev...on-905312.html

*US gov't may raise radiation exposure levels in food, drink, soil*
‎http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/305386

And i could get 100s of more articles


yawnn


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *POONBERRY*


I don't know why such a big deal is being made over such a small country.


you sir have no idea how important that little country is to the whole world. stupid comment is stupid.


----------



## sLowEnd

Quote:



Originally Posted by *POONBERRY*


I don't know why such a big deal is being made over such a small country.


Japan is only small in landmass. The population, culture, & economy of Japan is large.


----------



## Marc-Olivier Beaudoin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sLowEnd*


Japan is only small in landmass. The population, culture, & economy of Japan is large.


if you want a small country look at canada and you got one with our current states







culture is down the drain . especially French culture as the a guys governing here wants it to be eradicated both English and French. cause culture is poo-poo la culture c'est caca !!

BACK to the point .

japan is just one of the biggest market out there sure it's a not important country









and this is not like Chernobyl the radiation didn't cause as much damage as what was seen then. If there's a new red forest in japan I might say it's borderline equal to the surrounding damage of pripiat and the area around it

all around it's not that bad


----------



## Aaron_Henderson

I like how everyone downplays this like it's no big deal and it won't affect us in any way.


----------



## wilykat

The disaster level may be same as Chernobyl but ***ushima is not going to be that bad. For one thing, it didn't explode and scatter unsafe level of radiation all over 20+km of area like Chernobyl. The residents around the reactor had a month to evacuate so very few would be exposed to high level of radiation.

Plus better safe guard. Chernobyl didn't have anything resembling containment, and many of the men who fought the initial fire were unprotected. ***ushima's was more of a slow leak and cracks rather than an outright explosion.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson

Basically, from what I can tell - because there was no pretty explosion for people to ooh-and-ahh over, nobody cares.


----------



## Masked

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Aaron_Henderson*


Basically, from what I can tell - because there was no pretty explosion for people to ooh-and-ahh over, nobody cares.


When American's sushi starts having 3 eyes and can walk on land...Trust me, they'll start caring.


----------



## Invisible

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Aaron_Henderson*


Basically, from what I can tell - because there was no pretty explosion for people to ooh-and-ahh over, nobody cares.


And it's sad that we have come to this, but we all know this already.

Besides this nuclear crisis, is Japan safe on earthquakes atleast?


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Aaron_Henderson*


I like how everyone downplays this like it's no big deal and it won't affect us in any way.


Just because some of us are not spreading doomsday prophecies and going ape$hit crazy over this matter, doesn't mean we don't recognize its seriousness. Though we will grow no additional arms or legs, such an incident will surely affect us all, an example being the nuclear debate. Oh, and inb4 "nuclear rocks" vs "nuclear sucks"; a few such discussions are already present in this thread, several dozen pages back.

Some more info for dear mr. finalturismo:

Quote:



They noted that the amount of radioactive particles emitted from the ***ushima plant is so far about 10 percent of that from the former Soviet nuclear plant.

However, Junichiro Matsumoto, a senior official of the utility's nuclear power section, said the total radiation from the Japanese plant could eventually be more than that from Chernobyl if leaks continue.


 ^ Kyodo

As you can see, the potential is there, but the current radiation release is 1/10th that of 'nobyl.
Thus I repeat my question: this is wose than chernobyl... exactly how?

P.S. Another interesting piece of info is that the level at each reactor separately is still rated 5; it's the situation as a whole that's a level 7.


----------



## PoopaScoopa

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/12/us-japan-economy-idUSTRE73B0O320110412
Quote:


> (Reuters) - Japan's economics minister warned on Tuesday that the economic damage from last month's earthquake and tsunami is likely to be worse than initially thought as p*ower shortages will crimp factory output and restrict supply chains.*
> 
> The Bank of Japan governor said the economy was in a "severe state," while central bankers were uncertain when efforts to rebuild the tsunami-ravaged northeast would boost growth, according to minutes from a meeting held three days after a record earthquake struck Japan on March 11.
> 
> The government estimates *the material damage alone could top $300 billion*, making it by far the world's costliest natural disaster.


Factory output down means their economy will have a hard time recovering. Computer prices will also rise because of a shortage of supplies. Hard drive and Motherboard prices will be extremely expensive.
Quote:


> http://www.maximumpc.com/article/hard_drive_prices_go_too
> Earlier this week we reported that *motherboard prices could go up* in the second half of 2011 due to component shortages. If that happens, it would be the second time this year that mobo prices increased. Unfortunately, the price hikes don't stop there. Now we're learning that hard drives could cost more as the year goes on, too.
> 
> According to DigiTimes, *a shortage of controller chips for motors used in hard drives* could cause the price of OEM units to jump by 5-10 percent in the second quarter. DigiTimes says that channel pricing has already gone up by 10-15 percent recently.
> 
> As with most of the recent shortages and disruptions in supply, this one is also a result of the earthquake in Japan. The earthquake damaged three wafer plants belonging to Texas Instruments, and shipments aren't expected to resume until September. TI is one of the major suppliers of HDD motors to a number of hard drive makers, including Western Digital and Seagate, DigiTimes says.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *POONBERRY;13093402*
> I don't know why such a big deal is being made over such a small country.


If the mass death and destruction of people's lives wasn't enough for you to care, maybe you'll care about not being able to buy more gadgets at cheap prices.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;13095955*
> Just because some of us are not spreading doomsday prophecies and going ape$hit crazy over this matter, doesn't mean we don't recognize its seriousness. Though we will grow no additional arms or legs, such an incident will surely affect us all, an example being the nuclear debate. Oh, and inb4 "nuclear rocks" vs "nuclear sucks"; a few such discussions are already present in this thread, several dozen pages back.


I just meant in general, people don't even know or care what is going on over there. Sure, there are people obviously that do know. And sure, there are the crackpots. But try having a discussion about anything related to this with just a random person, and see what they have to say. Chances are, not a lot. I'm not trying to "compare this to Chernobyl", or anything like that. Just making an observation on the general lack of interest in this, period.


----------



## shnur

A Sev7 situation does not mean it should be like or worse Chernobyl, it just means it's worse than a Sev6...
Most people are worried about radiation found all over the world, but they forget that we are exposed to radiation every day of our lives, it's part of us living on Earth.

Small radiation is not going to affect America/Europe, maybe something will happen with Japan itself and the fish, but that is about it.
The actual consequences are that the country is devastated and because they are making a lot of our products we will need to pay more for them and live without them.


----------



## PoopaScoopa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aaron_Henderson;13096462*
> I just meant in general, people don't even know or care what is going on over there. Sure, there are people obviously that do know. And sure, there are the crackpots. But try having a discussion about anything related to this with just a random person, and see what they have to say. Chances are, not a lot. I'm not trying to "compare this to Chernobyl", or anything like that. Just making an observation on the general lack of interest in this, period.


I think those experiences have more to do with how us Americans typically view the rest of the world as unimportant. Anything beyond the vast oceans that separate us tends to not be treated with much importance. We only care about ourselves. Only once prices start jumping up and affect their buying power people might start paying more attention.


----------



## Flack88

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM9PL6UPLG_index_1.html#subhead2

Something else to think about.


----------



## Krusher33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Masked;13095581*
> When American's sushi starts having 3 eyes and can walk on land...Trust me, they'll start caring.


Naw. Americans will just say "Hey look! It's the fish from the Simpsons show!"


----------



## gammite

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shnur;13096718*
> Small radiation is not going to affect America/Europe, maybe something will happen with Japan itself and the fish, but that is about it.


millions of gallons of highly radioactive water has leaked into the pacific ocean. the ocean has currents just like the jet stream.

you do the math.

fish swim in the pacific ocean. fish migrate all through the ocean.

you do the math.


----------



## ccrunner863

im gonna bring a gieger counter to the fish market in a few months just for teh lulz

[im not trolling just making a funny







]


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gammite;13098352*
> millions of gallons of highly radioactive water has leaked into the pacific ocean. the ocean has currents just like the jet stream.
> 
> you do the math.
> 
> fish swim in the pacific ocean. fish migrate all through the ocean.
> 
> you do the math.


Most of the radioactive materials that leaked into the pacific have a half-life of 8 hours, iirc.
You do the math.


----------



## gammite

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu*


Most of the radioactive materials that leaked into the pacific have a half-life of 8 hours, iirc.
You do the math.


and you believe that. seriously.


----------



## nukefission

I lol @ flaming *cough* civilized discussion








Anyway any new news?
First post shows last month news


----------



## IcyPimpHand

Quote:



Originally Posted by *POONBERRY*


I don't know why such a big deal is being made over such a small country.


Why is America full of such D*******s and ignorant people. They make me so mad.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *finalturismo*


Now i come back to say i told you so.......
This is far worse than Chernobyl


Please, quit being sensationalistic.

1.) Officials have stated that the radiation leakage so far is only 1/10th of what Chernobyl had emitted in the same amount of time. 
2.) Chernobyl was a complete meltdown almost immediately and had NO cooling take place.
3.) The reactors in Japan still have cooling going on that was been getting better.
4.) The increase of the rating from 5 to 7 is based on the leakage that was measured in the first couple of days, it isn't an indication that things are worsening, they're saying it should've been at that level to begin with.
5.) There aren't hundreds of workers having to sacrifice their lives just to try and contain the reactors in Japan.
6.) There isn't a total meltdown at the reactors in Japan, unlike Chernobyl, and there are currently no indications that a total meltdown will be occurring.

Based on the current info I'd place the severity of this event almost directly in between the incident at Three Mile Island and the disaster at Chernobyl. My guess is that sufficient cooling will be underway at the Japan reactors within a few months that will let them begin to start removing the damaged roofs of the reactor buildings and put shielding in place, and after that (while improving cooling methods) they can begin to remove the highly radioactive water within, and after that the solids. Based on the fact it took 5 years for this to occur at Three Mile Island 35 years ago, which was a smaller scale and had less severity, I'd say this will probably take at least 5 years to fix in Japan. And with 1/10th of the emissions of Japan's reactors compared to Chernobyl and it being next to the ocean there will probably be a lot less impact on the environment overall from this whole thing.


----------



## PoopaScoopa

Radiation leakage certainly isn't as high as Chernobyl but there's going to be a 30KM evacuation "dead zone" around the plant.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:



Originally Posted by *POONBERRY*


I don't know why such a big deal is being made over such a small country.


You do realize that Japan is one of the most populous nations in the world, with one of the largest economies in the world?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gammite*


millions of gallons of highly radioactive water has leaked into the pacific ocean. the ocean has currents just like the jet stream.

you do the math.

fish swim in the pacific ocean. fish migrate all through the ocean.

you do the math.


Drop in a bucket.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gammite*


and you believe that. seriously.


The isotopes of most concern are cesium-137 and iodine-131. The former has a half-life of ~30 years, the latter 8 days.


----------



## Skaterboydale

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless;13101599*
> The isotopes of most concern are cesium-137 and iodine-131. The former has a half-life of ~30 years, the latter 8 days.


And some mistakenly believe after 1 half-life the radioactivity is gone, but it isn't, its just that the intensity is just reduced, decay follows an exponential curve taking a while to completely reach zero.


----------



## theCanadian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless;13101599*
> You do realize that Japan is one of the most populous nations in the world, with one of the largest economies in the world?


Exactly
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless;13101599*
> Drop in a bucket.


Exactly
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless;13101599*
> The isotopes of most concern are cesium-137 and iodine-131. The former has a half-life of ~30 years, the latter 8 days.


I have not heard on what order of magnitude either of these isotopes have escaped into the surrounding environment.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless;13101599*
> The isotopes of most concern are cesium-137 and iodine-131. The former has a half-life of ~30 years, the latter 8 days.


Ah, so it was days, not hours. My bad.

I, personally, agree with the "drop in a bucket" statement. Heck, there's a garbage patch twice the size of Texas floating in the pacific, so I think that's quite a bit more severe that what this accident is causing. I could be wrong, though. If there are any marine experts reading this thread, feel free to correct me


----------



## PoopaScoopa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;13101894*
> Ah, so it was days, not hours. My bad.
> 
> I, personally, agree with the "drop in a bucket" statement. Heck, there's a garbage patch twice the size of Texas floating in the pacific, so I think that's quite a bit more severe that what this accident is causing. I could be wrong, though. If there are any marine experts reading this thread, feel free to correct me


I heard a podcast of someone who went out doing research on that and she said it wasn't really a "patch" but spread out over hundreds of miles. It doesn't actually clump up into one spot like a swirling whirlpool.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *theCanadian;13101689*
> I have not heard on what order of magnitude either of these isotopes have escaped into the surrounding environment.


The last report I heard a few days ago was that radiation in the area surrounding the plant was ~4800 above the legal limit (legal by international standards I believe).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu;13101894*
> Ah, so it was days, not hours. My bad.
> 
> I, personally, agree with the "drop in a bucket" statement. Heck, there's a garbage patch twice the size of Texas floating in the pacific, so I think that's quite a bit more severe that what this accident is causing. I could be wrong, though. If there are any marine experts reading this thread, feel free to correct me


They've said that fishing will be restricted in an area around the plant, not sure what the size of that area was, but the report I heard didn't make it sound huge or anything. They also made it sound like the radiation making it in to the water wasn't long lasting (probably one of the isotopes with a shorter half life), so fishing would eventually return to normal once the plant is fully contained.


----------



## runeazn

omgawd this manga was so precise!

richter scales earthquake 8.1..
and in 20XX
wooowww

http://www.mangareader.net/1117/kanojo-wo-mamoru-51-no-houhou.html


----------



## 45nm

Might be worth checking out this following Youtube Video depicting life in the Japanese 'Zone'.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp9iJ3pPuL8&hd=1[/ame]


----------



## eternal7trance

Aw look at all the dogs.


----------



## shnur

That is something...


----------



## lordikon

That video is crazy. Those guys didn't have any protective gear or anything. Poor animals all abandoned too. Sadly it'll be like that in that area for awhile.


----------



## Mr_Torch

That is an amazing video.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skaterboydale*


And some mistakenly believe after 1 half-life the radioactivity is gone, but it isn't, its just that the intensity is just reduced, decay follows an exponential curve taking a while to completely reach zero.


Half-life is pretty self explanatory.

Still in the case of the iodine, it won't be in the environment enough to cause serious harm.

The cesium is a larger long term concern, depending on exactly how much has been released.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *theCanadian*


I have not heard on what order of magnitude either of these isotopes have escaped into the surrounding environment.


Apparently it is enough for people to want to avoid eating fish from the area for near future.


----------



## Hephasteus

And the yens gone.

http://sherriequestioningall.blogspo...-loan-and.html

Prepare for a world where bear sterns and morgan stanley collapse occurs X10.


----------



## mega_option101

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blameless*


Half-life is pretty self explanatory.

Still in the case of the iodine, it won't be in the environment enough to cause serious harm.

The cesium is a larger long term concern, depending on exactly how much has been released.

Apparently it is enough for people to want to avoid eating fish from the area for near future.


When is the Half-life though?









That is all that really matters


----------



## Flack88

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hephasteus*


And the yens gone.

http://sherriequestioningall.blogspo...-loan-and.html

Prepare for a world where bear sterns and morgan stanley collapse occurs X10.


Thats very interesting either its to do with the radiation or.....Japan sinking slowly into the sea. How true is that article seeing as its comming from a non offical source?


----------



## Double Helix

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Flack88*


Thats very interesting either its to do with the radiation or.....Japan sinking slowly into the sea. How true is that article seeing as its comming from a non offical source?


Yeah the source looks absurd. Looks liek a glossy tabloid rag.


----------



## Hephasteus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Flack88*


Thats very interesting either its to do with the radiation or.....Japan sinking slowly into the sea. How true is that article seeing as its comming from a non offical source?


What do you mean how true is relative to we only report the good instrument reading official source? 
Japan is hurt. People driving their car through the site with personal geiger counters is just as official as reports from the government or main stream media.
The article is not about japan sinking slowly into the sea it's about how commercial real estate is no longer a viable business in a nuclear wasteland. It's about morgan stanley strategically defaulting on blackstone which neck deep in retirement fund business. Which just turned a several billion dollar building into about 10 grand worth of recyclable steel if you are willing to die of radiation poisoning to recycle it and possibly kill the people you sell it to.


----------



## Ironcobra

Incredible vids here:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTqnAwsbfsI[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEf51ax5vWI[/ame]


----------



## pale_neon

have there been any computer models made of the radiation dispersal & how/where it hit the west coast of the U.S.?


----------



## Ironcobra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pale_neon;13156304*
> have there been any computer models made of the radiation dispersal & how/where it hit the west coast of the U.S.?


the truth will not be televised bet ur azz on that


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pale_neon;13156304*
> have there been any computer models made of the radiation dispersal & how/where it hit the west coast of the U.S.?


Not sure about computer models, but here's the most recent flyover data that I found with quick searching:


----------



## kingsnake2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;13156459*
> Not sure about computer models, but here's the most recent flyover data that I found with quick searching:


From my understanding of radiation levels (which is just QA articles and a little wiki), only young children in the orange zone are at any possibility of risk.


----------



## Hephasteus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ironcobra;13156444*
> the truth will not be televised bet ur azz on that


I didn't even pay attention to the japan sinking videos that that webpage brought up. Those are incredible. The people are so calm.


----------



## AblueXKRS

I've just read that no individual reactor was rated above a 5 on the Nuclear Accident scale. Three were rated level 5, one was rated at a level 3, and the situation as a whole was rated level 7.

There's a 20km exclusion zone around the reactor, now.


----------



## Ironcobra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hephasteus;13157473*
> I didn't even pay attention to the japan sinking videos that that webpage brought up. Those are incredible. The people are so calm.


it really is crazy how calm they are, i mean the ground is moving like its just sitting on top of the ocean nuts id be swimmin my ass to korea


----------



## Hephasteus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ironcobra;13158964*
> it really is crazy how calm they are, i mean the ground is moving like its just sitting on top of the ocean nuts id be swimmin my ass to korea


Well I found ANOTHER source for the default thing.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/8804997-morgan-stanley-defaults-in-japan-do-they-know-something-we-dont

I had NO Idea how bad the cover up from chernobyl was.
I've found reports that we got about a month left before shortages show up in a BUNCH of electronics.
June is latest till we start having huge economic upheavels.

But the good news is Japan Disneyland will be distracting anyone who is clueless so the elites can get out more rapidly.

Oh and BRICS just dumped the dollar.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-04-14/news/29417583_1_economies-food-security-local-currencies

IBM is neck deep in japanese foundry work and they rely heavily on hitachi hard drives.


----------



## Killam0n

Second power plant in Onagawa, japan declares emergency situation:

http://www.allvoices.com/s/event-8804997/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5odWZmaW5ndG9ucG9zdC5jb20vMjAxMS8wMy8xMy9qYXBhbi1vbmFnYXdhLW51Y2xlYXItcGxhbnQtc3RhdGUtb2YtZW1lcmdlbmN5X25fODM1MDU5Lmh0bWw=

I tried to tell people that japan is covering things up on DAY 2, Even on this forum and I was shot down for it, people called it fear mongering.. really.. well now there is detectable radiation in my milk and things are just getting worse in japan. If you think things are cool over there and "out of the water" your an idiot. We are not getting strait info from japan or the japanese government. We better be focusing some spy satellites at japan about now and monitoring the radiation levels for ourselves. If your in japan, Leave now.

Chernobyl Cleanup Survivor's Message for Japan: 'Run Away as Quickly as Possible'
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/22/chernobyl-cleanup-survivors-message-for-japan-run-away-as-qui/


----------



## Skripka

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Killam0n*


Second power plant in Onagawa, japan declares emergency situation:

http://www.allvoices.com/s/event-880...M1MDU5Lmh0bWw=


Dude. That article is a MONTH old.


----------



## Flack88

http://squid.nilu.no/~burkhart/sharing/MOVIES/?C=M;O=D

Some Radiation forcasts.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Killam0n*


Second power plant in Onagawa, japan declares emergency situation:

http://www.allvoices.com/s/event-880...M1MDU5Lmh0bWw=

I tried to tell people that japan is covering things up on DAY 2, Even on this forum and I was shot down for it, people called it fear mongering.. really.. well now there is detectable radiation in my milk and things are just getting worse in japan. If you think things are cool over there and "out of the water" your an idiot. We are not getting strait info from japan or the japanese government. We better be focusing some spy satellites at japan about now and monitoring the radiation levels for ourselves. If your in japan, Leave now.

Chernobyl Cleanup Survivor's Message for Japan: 'Run Away as Quickly as Possible'
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/22/ch...n-away-as-qui/


What Skripka said. Check your sources before posting. Also, enough fearmongering. Yes, fearmongering. You said you were "shot down for it". Well, let me shoot another bullet then:

*bang*

Detectable =/= harmful; Chernobyl survivor =/= nuclear expert. 
Leave Japan? Are you REALLY suggesting that?
...

If you want to be taken seriously, put some effort into gathering relevant & unbiased information and refrain from calling people idiots (at least out loud







).
Who knows, your opinion itself might take a 180 degree turn in the process - mine often does when I dig for info on various topics.

Also, some cover-up is always to be expected - I'd go so far as to say it's essential. Exactly how would it help if the operators listed every single possibility of something going wrong? How would it help if they started releasing loads of technical info that only ~0,001% of the world's population could understand? 
The masses do not need to know the details, because fearmongers will just get a ton of info to manipulate and use to spread panic with. It's times like these that people's morale must be kept as high as possible. While some degree of honesty is crucial(especially when it concerns international matters), releasing too much info will NOT help the situation - it'll just make it worse.


----------



## Killam0n

http://www.infowars.com/japanese-gov...mega-disaster/
March 14, 2011"According to the Japanese government, the explosion at the ***ushima Daiichi No. 3 reactor is not much to worry about"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...-leak-cover-up
http://www.prisonplanet.com/massive-...melt-down.html
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/03...a_radiati.html
"Some nuclear experts believe that Japan may be covering up the extent of the radiation leak at the ***ushima Daiichi nuclear plant - claiming that their inability to get a radiation reading is a sign of a coverup.""The actions of the Japanese government are completely contrary to their words. They have evacuated 180,000 people but say there is no radiation. They are certain to have readings but we are being told nothing."


----------



## Skripka

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Killam0n*


http://www.infowars.com/japanese-gov...mega-disaster/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...-leak-cover-up

"According to the Japanese government, the explosion at the ***ushima Daiichi No. 3 reactor is not much to worry about"


Why are you still quoting articles that are over a month old???


----------



## Killam0n

because its still relevant, the fact they said its nothing to worry about should make you a bit conserned, you do know that 600,000 spent fuel rods are stored above the reactors in this melting down power plant right? which if melted and released into the atmosphere is much worse than just if the actual reactors were to melt down.


----------



## Ironcobra

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Killam0n*


because its still relevant, the fact they said its nothing to worry about should make you a bit conserned, you do know that 600,000 spent fuel rods are stored above the reactors in this melting down power plant right? which if melted and released into the atmosphere is much worse than just if the actual reactors were to melt down.


Another thing ive noticed no 1 is talking about the plutonium, isnt that the most deadly substance in a nuclear meltdown? doesnt it have a half life of 10-20 million years?


----------



## Skripka

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ironcobra*


Another thing ive noticed no 1 is talking about the plutonium, isnt that the most deadly substance in a nuclear meltdown? doesnt it have a half life of 10-20 million years?


What exactly do you mean by "deadly"?

Swallow equal amounts of arsenic or pure caffeine and plutonium, and it won't be the plutonium that kills you.


----------



## _02

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skripka*


What exactly do you mean by "deadly"?

Swallow equal amounts of arsenic or pure caffeine and plutonium, and it won't be the plutonium that kills you.


I think he probably means potential.

The same weight plutonium and arsenic spread over great distances probably weighs heavily on Plutonium being more deadly.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:



Originally Posted by *_02*


I think he probably means potential.

The same weight plutonium and arsenic spread over great distances probably weighs heavily on Plutonium being more deadly.


I'd point out the Tacoma Smelter Plume. Shows the contest to be a wash even in that context.

http://www.kingcounty.gov/healthserv...ackground.aspx


----------



## Tennobanzai

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Killam0n*


http://www.infowars.com/japanese-gov...mega-disaster/
March 14, 2011"According to the Japanese government, the explosion at the ***ushima Daiichi No. 3 reactor is not much to worry about"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...-leak-cover-up
http://www.prisonplanet.com/massive-...melt-down.html
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/03...a_radiati.html
"Some nuclear experts believe that Japan may be covering up the extent of the radiation leak at the ***ushima Daiichi nuclear plant â€" claiming that their inability to get a radiation reading is a sign of a coverup.""The actions of the Japanese government are completely contrary to their words. They have evacuated 180,000 people but say there is no radiation. They are certain to have readings but we are being told nothing."


old news is old


----------



## Hephasteus

Web is crawling with rumors that ***ushima is a weapons grade plutonium enriching site and the storage pool is full of super hot MOXed plutonium.

http://www.survivalistboards.com/sho...d.php?t=157820

And absolute latest rumor/news is that there's a new explosion. The pool found some new source of hydrogen to light off.

There was a video of the explosion today that just got yanked within the last 5 minutes 6:30 cst.


----------



## Krusher33

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hephasteus*


Web is crawling with rumors that ***ushima is a weapons grade plutonium enriching site and the storage pool is full of super hot MOXed plutonium.

http://www.survivalistboards.com/sho...d.php?t=157820

And absolute latest rumor/news is that there's a new explosion. The pool found some new source of hydrogen to light off.

There was a video of the explosion today that just got yanked within the last 5 minutes 6:30 cst.


I clicked link and saw hand-guns and stopped right there. I mean really... not exactly a credible site for such info.


----------



## fireman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skripka*


I'd point out the Tacoma Smelter Plume. Shows the contest to be a wash even in that context.

http://www.kingcounty.gov/healthserv...ackground.aspx


Wat.










I touched and played in that soil, am I gonna die?


----------



## Flack88

http://www.fairewinds.com/

Latest updates from a professional.


----------



## fg2chase

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fireman;13181505*
> Wat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I touched and played in that soil, am I gonna die?


Yes, everyone dies.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fg2chase;13187357*
> Yes, everyone dies.


----------



## JeremiahTheBullfrog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krusher33;13181324*
> I clicked link and saw hand-guns and stopped right there. I mean really... not exactly a credible site for such info.


Why would "handguns" lower credibility? Our constitution contains liberties concerning firearms so does that make it less credible as well?

I'd say a video confirms its credibility. Too bad it was pulled.


----------



## Krusher33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JeremiahTheBullfrog;13189012*
> Why would "handguns" lower credibility? Our constitution contains liberties concerning firearms so does that make it less credible as well?
> 
> I'd say a video confirms its credibility. Too bad it was pulled.


Because the web titled "survivalist" and pictures of guns just screams of "paranoia". Had nothing to do with constitutional rights. It reminded me of the new year's day of 2000... a group of guys with guns hanging out in front of their house protecting their property.

And why was video pulled?


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Krusher33*


Because the web titled "survivalist" and pictures of guns just screams of "paranoia". Had nothing to do with constitutional rights. It reminded me of the new year's day of 2000... a group of guys with guns hanging out in front of their house protecting their property.

And why was video pulled?


As much as I'm pro-guns and all that, I'd have to agree. That website is NOT a credible source.


----------



## aweir

When Japan raised the nuclear incident to a level 7, the pro nuclear activists got their panties in a bunch. Why? It is what it is. Why can't they just accept that nuclear power plants are the most dangerous things built besides the NUCLEAR bomb?


----------



## Skripka

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


When Japan raised the nuclear incident to a level 7, the pro nuclear activists got their panties in a bunch. Why? It is what it is. Why can't they just accept that nuclear power plants are the most dangerous things built besides the NUCLEAR bomb?


Because those who make such claims are utterly full of fear-mongering crap?


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;13231661*
> When Japan raised the nuclear incident to a level 7, the pro nuclear activists got their panties in a bunch. Why? It is what it is. Why can't they just accept that nuclear power plants are the most dangerous things built besides the NUCLEAR bomb?











That's YOUR opinion & YOUR interpretation. Some, including me, might completely disagree, but screw that. Let's not start another "nuclear rocks" vs "nuclear sucks" debate. We've seen time and again that many people don't even bother properly reading the opposing side's arguments(though sometimes they're actually not worth reading, haha), not to mention trying to, at least temporarily, assume the opponent's PoV. This would just become another thread-crapping flame-war, were anyone else to join in.


----------



## Ironcobra

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be0ow2Jjs9E&feature=player_embedded[/ame]


----------



## _CH_Skyline_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ironcobra;13247732*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be0ow2Jjs9E&feature=player_embedded


Very informative video, thanks for posting. I made it through 52 minutes, will continue in a bit.


----------



## Ironcobra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_CH_Skyline_;13249443*
> Very informative video, thanks for posting. I made it through 52 minutes, will continue in a bit.


ya its a lil out there but not bad


----------



## Hephasteus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SgtSpike*


As much as I'm pro-guns and all that, I'd have to agree. That website is NOT a credible source.


I said the web is CRAWLING with rumors about it. There were literally dozens of websites that had open discussions about it. Alot of them were kind of picked apart. Alot of them brought up hidden chernobyl stuff.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

So whats the current news with the Power plant at the moment. I have not been able to get on at all in the last few weeks. Thanks


----------



## aweir

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/...iupdate01.html


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/...iupdate01.html


I found this interesting...

Quote:



The reactor pressure vessel temperatures in Unit 1 remain above cold shutdown conditions. The indicated temperature at the feedwater nozzle of the reactor pressure vessel is 154 Â°C and at the bottom of reactor pressure vessel is 113 Â°C.

The reactor pressure vessel temperatures in Unit 2 remain above cold shutdown conditions. The indicated temperature at the feed water nozzle of the reactor pressure vessel is 135 Â°C. *The reactor pressure vessel and the dry well remain at atmospheric pressure.* Fresh water injection (approximately 47 tonnes) to the spent fuel pool via the spent fuel pool cooling line was carried out on 19 April.

The temperature at the bottom of the reactor pressure vessel in Unit 3 remains above cold shutdown conditions. The indicated temperature at the feed water nozzle of the reactor pressure vessel is 100 Â°C and at the bottom of the reactor pressure vessel is 108 Â°C. *The reactor pressure vessel and the dry well remain at atmospheric pressure.*


Is that because they are constantly releasing all extra pressure, or because the reactor pressure vessels actually have leaks?


----------



## Trigunflame

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_CH_Skyline_;13249443*
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ironcobra;13247732*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be0ow2Jjs9E&feature=player_embedded
> 
> 
> 
> Very informative video, thanks for posting. I made it through 52 minutes, will continue in a bit.
Click to expand...

That woman is so full of crap it's pathetic.
I myself do not particularly care for the widespread use of Nuclear power, but her blatant fear mongering is uncalled for.

@ 17:40

"It is 3x more radioactive on the ground than after Chernobyl".

She should have been booed off stage immediately following that statement.


----------



## _CH_Skyline_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trigunflame;13266812*
> That woman is so full of crap it's pathetic.
> I myself do not particularly care for the widespread use of Nuclear power, but her blatant fear mongering is uncalled for.
> 
> @ 17:40
> 
> "It is 3x more radioactive on the ground than after Chernobyl".
> 
> She should have been booed off stage immediately following that statement.


I didn't say that I believed it, but I do like to hear everything. Some of it was a little over the top, mixed with her own opinions.

My step-father has worked @ Three Mile Island for 20+ years so nuclear power is nothing new to my family.


----------



## Ironcobra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trigunflame;13266812*
> That woman is so full of crap it's pathetic.
> I myself do not particularly care for the widespread use of Nuclear power, but her blatant fear mongering is uncalled for.
> 
> @ 17:40
> 
> "It is 3x more radioactive on the ground than after Chernobyl".
> 
> She should have been booed off stage immediately following that statement.


not that i agree with alot of what she said but how do u know its not 3xhigher, those reactors are alot bigger then chernobyl's, and if u dont believe at least 2 of them are in full meltdown i dont know what to think, tepco is def lying


----------



## _02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ironcobra;13279531*
> not that i agree with alot of what she said but how do u know its not 3xhigher, those reactors are alot bigger then chernobyl's, and if u dont believe at least 2 of them are in full meltdown i dont know what to think, tepco is def lying


3x more radioactive on the ground compared to Chernobyl is a comparison of the accident to Chernobyl, when they are very different situations. You can't draw the concern from one when it doesn't apply to the other.

This makes the inference that this accident is 3x worse than Chernobyl, which seems laughable.


----------



## Ironcobra

if/when these reactors meltdown it will be worse then chernobyl yes/no?


----------



## Skripka

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ironcobra*


if/when these reactors meltdown it will be worse then chernobyl yes/no?


Short answer: No.


----------



## Ironcobra

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skripka*


Short answer: No.


not trying to be a dick but why? chernobyl was one reactor, isnt ***ishima multiple reactors twice the size i know the graphite that burned in chernobyl carried most of the radiation but what about them dumping radioactive cooling water into the ocean why are they picking up radiation in stockholm, isnt the mox fuel in reactor 3 very dangerous? what about the spent plutonium, help me understand why


----------



## Skripka

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ironcobra*


not trying to be a dick but why? chernobyl was one reactor, isnt ***ishima multiple reactors twice the size i know the graphite that burned in chernobyl carried most of the radiation but what about them dumping radioactive cooling water into the ocean why are they picking up radiation in stockholm, isnt the mox fuel in reactor 3 very dangerous? what about the spent plutonium, help me understand why


Long answer:

Chernobyl had absolutely zero containment, by design. ***ushima and Chernobyl have/had zero design features in common. Chernobyl #4 failed catastrophically and exploded in about 30 seconds-spewing core materials and moderator all over the surrounding countryside. The explosive was so massive the 100-ton solid steel lid of the reactor blew off and destroyed the reactor hall.

As of yet, within my knowledge, ***ushima has contained all reactor materials within the reactor vessels and their containments. Most of the radiosotopes released from ***ushima in venting steam have short lives. Those that don't are small enough in number to not be that much of a concern as of yet.


----------



## Ironcobra

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skripka*


Long answer:

Chernobyl had absolutely zero containment, by design. ***ushima and Chernobyl have/had zero design features in common. Chernobyl #4 failed catastrophically and exploded in about 30 seconds-spewing core materials and moderator all over the surrounding countryside. The explosive was so massive the 100-ton solid steel lid of the reactor blew off and destroyed the reactor hall.

As of yet, within my knowledge, ***ushima has contained all reactor materials within the reactor vessels and their containments. Most of the radiosotopes released from ***ushima in venting steam have short lives. Those that don't are small enough in number to not be that much of a concern as of yet.


thanks 4 the explanation hopefully it doesnt get that bad


----------



## Flack88

Not that this is surprising. No wonder why the mainstream media has stopped reporting about it for a while.

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/13_03.html

Seeing as Chunky_Chimp doesnt allow it.......Either because he is a fool or refuses to realise the situation!


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

I never said I didn't allow it. I'm just trying to keep it to one thread as was intended.


----------



## Flack88

Quote:



I never said I didn't allow it. I'm just trying to keep it to one thread as was intended.


Ok fair enough but this is deffinately a step up from what has happened.


----------



## lordikon

NPR was talking with experts 3 weeks ago from the Three Mile Island incident and they said it was almost 100% certain that there was some sort of meltdown in this case. So yea, not surprising, pretty much expected.


----------



## Flack88

Yeah im starting to feel as if this was intended/planned - as in corperations. - The proof is in the stock market









There are a lot of isitopes that have been emmited which can only be achived during meltdown! (scientific fact)

I could carry on all day explaining this, but its up to you guys to understand and decide! (no im not a 'conspiracy theorist') I just look at what is going on with the stock market and the earth in general (not to make money)!


----------



## hollowtek

holy shi'ite muslim... there is no good that can come from this.


----------



## aweir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ironcobra;13280319*
> if/when these reactors meltdown it will be worse then chernobyl yes/no?


The "experts" say it is just as bad. TEPCO won't get their heads out of their ....... and admit it.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2011/05/***ushima-full-meltdown-made-official/37671/
Quote:


> The ***ushima disaster is already as bad as Chernobyl according to the International Atomic Energy Association's scale, but the radiation levels released are yet to be determined. Semantics and classifications aside, the people of Japan's situation is scarier than before for one reason: that big hole that's leaking radioactive water puts a serious damper TEPCO's plan to cool the reactor by dousing it with water. Even if they plug the leak, it's unclear how much more radioactive water has seeped into the ground or ocean around the plant. This is the third leak discovered by officials, and it may very well not be the last.


It's well known already that TEPCO will keep revising the safe radiation levels higher and higher until it appears completely safe. And no I'm not being sarcastic, that it the truth!

If you don't believe it then why did they keep raising the safe dosage limit? To let the workers stay on the site and continue to work and make it not appear as dangerous as it is.

Why does the U.S. want a greater evacuation area but Japan refuses to comply?

Why did TEPCO halt radiation readings?

Why did they stop giving out radiation readers to workers?


----------



## Aaron_Henderson

I just think it's sad how anyone who predicted this was pretty much shot down as an idiot or conspiracy theorist.


----------



## Sorobieva

You people are overreacting. The accident will never be as severe as chernobyl, simply due to the fact of the way the reactors are engineered. They might have the same situation, where they are releasing radiation, but the "severity" of a case, doesn't exactly transfer over such things. There are huge differences to the Chernobyl situation compared to ***ushima. A.) The reactor core is not exposed in ***ushima, like it was in Chernobyl. B.) The authorities are doing ALOT more sooner then chernobyl. The problem with the IAEA's disaster scale, is that it makes sweeping generalizations about the severity of an accident, instead of evaluation it on a case by case basis. They are very much overestimating the case.


----------



## Double Helix

Where's the new info? There's been a partial melt situation all along, hasn't there? As referenced by the gasses that were detectable.


----------



## CoolerMasterD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sorobieva;13488219*
> You people are overreacting. The accident will never be as severe as chernobyl, simply due to the fact of the way the reactors are engineered. They might have the same situation, where they are releasing radiation, but the "severity" of a case, doesn't exactly transfer over such things. There are huge differences to the Chernobyl situation compared to ***ushima. A.) The reactor core is not exposed in ***ushima, like it was in Chernobyl. B.) The authorities are doing ALOT more sooner then chernobyl. The problem with the IAEA's disaster scale, is that it makes sweeping generalizations about the severity of an accident, instead of evaluation it on a case by case basis. They are very much overestimating the case.


You sir are narrow minded, please don't drop in on this thread to try and start a flame fest. I will say this, look at the population density in select locations and the SIZE of the island... thank you and have a nice day.


----------



## Killam0n

called it from day 1, now I am just wondering how contained they can keep it.

Im glad tepco isn't 100% lying still.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CoolerMasterD;13488298*
> You sir are narrow minded, please don't drop in on this thread to try and start a flame fest. I will say this, look at the population density in select locations and the SIZE of the island... thank you and have a nice day.


I will say that he is right. People are over-reacting and grasping at the sensationalist headlines.

Sure it is bad. But calling ***ushima as bad as Chernobyl is ludicrous. The only reason it got the 7 monikor was due to ***ushima being several sub-4/5 level incidents at one site at once.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/***ushima7.png


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Double Helix;13488229*
> Where's the new info? *There's been a partial melt situation all along*, hasn't there? As referenced by the gasses that were detectable.


Exactly.
Why is everyone taking this as some sort of horrible breaking news? It was news about a month ago. By now it's just a confirmation. I don't know about you, folks, but I actually feel reassured that the situation is changing for the better, at least in #1. Why? Because it is supported by the bit in that article that is actually NEWS (which the doomsayers seem to have "accidentally" overlooked):
Quote:


> The company believes the melted fuel has cooled down, judging from the reactor's surface temperature.


I'd really like to know the precise temperature, though.
Cold shutdown = core coolant temp below 100C. I wonder how far from it the reactors are atm...


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aaron_Henderson;13488169*
> I just think it's sad how anyone who predicted this was pretty much shot down as an idiot or conspiracy theorist.


No, what is sad is all of the misinformation being thrown around. Anyone thinking this is close to as bad as Chernobyl doesn't know much about nuclear disasters, nuclear power plants, or radiation. This doesn't come close to being as bad as Chernobyl.

Predicting that it could meltdown isn't crazy, it was pretty much predicted by experts within a week or two of the whole thing starting. People hear meltdown and immediately thing of Chernobyl, but the reality is that there are different levels of meltdown, and Chernobyl was on a whole different level.


----------



## aweir

Phew...now I can relax better knowing we have nuclear physicists on OCN to dispel the lies of the International Atomic Energy Association.


----------



## Epitope

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lordikon*


No, what is sad is all of the misinformation being thrown around. Anyone thinking this is close to as bad as Chernobyl doesn't know much about nuclear disasters, nuclear power plants, or radiation. This doesn't come close to being as bad as Chernobyl.

Predicting that it could meltdown isn't crazy, it was pretty much predicted by experts within a week or two of the whole thing starting. People hear meltdown and immediately thing of Chernobyl, but the reality is that there are different levels of meltdown, and Chernobyl was on a whole different level.


Chernobyl didn't melt down as much as blow up. The core of the reactor ended up blowing through the roof not melting into a puddle of lava that melts through the floor... Chernobyl is essentially the worst case scenario.


----------



## driftingforlife

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Epitope*


Chernobyl didn't melt down as much as blow up. The core of the reactor ended up blowing through the roof not melting into a puddle of lava that melts through the floor... Chernobyl is essentially the worst case scenario.


umm, to my knowlege what happend is that the top of the reactor got blown off and 1 or 2 fuel rods with there graphite control rods, it was the graphite that was in the air. The fuel they used did melt though the floor of the reactor to a level under and formed into lava blops which didn't go down any further, thats why they called in loads of miners to dig a hole under the level were the melted fuel was and fit a cooling system but they scraped that idea and filled it will concrate.


----------



## nukefission

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Epitope*


Chernobyl didn't melt down as much as blow up. The core of the reactor ended up blowing through the roof not melting into a puddle of lava that melts through the floor... Chernobyl is essentially the worst case scenario.


ITS RAINING RADIATION








which should be worse than seeping into soil and water I think
any news on ***ushima?
disappeared of news radar


----------



## Aaron_Henderson

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lordikon*


No, what is sad is all of the misinformation being thrown around. Anyone thinking this is close to as bad as Chernobyl doesn't know much about nuclear disasters, nuclear power plants, or radiation. This doesn't come close to being as bad as Chernobyl.

Predicting that it could meltdown isn't crazy, it was pretty much predicted by experts within a week or two of the whole thing starting. People hear meltdown and immediately thing of Chernobyl, but the reality is that there are different levels of meltdown, and Chernobyl was on a whole different level.


I didn't say or imply anything about Chernobyl. Every time something is said, Chernobyl doesn't always need to be brought up. My point was about all the folks downplaying this like it was practically nothing, and couldn't possibly get any worse than it was a long time ago.


----------



## Hephasteus

Looks like the hot mox rumors were true. It's a hot mox site. Chernobyl was 1 nuclear power plant with very very few fuel rods and was encased very soon. This is 4 plants with huge huge fuel storages and it's not just nasty uranium it's extremely nasty plutonium. Radiation reporting sites are coming down.

People are pulling and spreading their hidden projection reports.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haMeP...ature=youtu.be

228 kids just got "food poisoning" in quam. Only their symptons are exactly the same as radiation. My mom went through chemo so I know how it acts on people.
Sharks are floating up on california beaches with internal hemorraging. They even seep through the skin.


----------



## xlink

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Flack88*


Yeah im starting to feel as if this was intended/planned - as in corperations. - The proof is in the stock market









There are a lot of isitopes that have been emmited which can only be achived during meltdown! (scientific fact)

I could carry on all day explaining this, but its up to you guys to understand and decide! (no im not a 'conspiracy theorist') I just look at what is going on with the stock market and the earth in general (not to make money)!



Quote:



Yeah, I'm starting to feel as though this was intended/planned - as in by corporations. The proof is in the stock market.

There are a number of isotopes which have been emitted that can only be achieved through meltdown!

I could carry on all day in explanation of this, but it's up to you to understand and decide. I merely look at what is going on with the stock market and with the Earth in general.


You have much to learn young padawan.


----------



## vinton13

Guys....are we screwed or not?


----------



## CrazyNikel

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vinton13*


Guys....are we screwed or not?










Easy question.

Yes


----------



## Skripka

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vinton13*


Guys....are we screwed or not?










You are unquestionably going to die. Of course this was true even before the Earthquake in Japan.


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Chernobyl is not ***ushima. They are completly different situations. Both are catagorized as lvl 7 and for different reasons. ***ushima will end up being a bigger overall disaster than Chernobyl. it will end up killing more people due to the amount of radiation and the proximity to MAJOR metropolitan areas. ***ushima has 10's of Millions within 200 miles, while Chernobyl only had 750,000-1mill close by. but the whole chernobyl=***ushima is not even a good comparison because they were different types of explosions/radiations.


----------



## [-Snake-]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;13491750*
> Phew...now I can relax better knowing we have nuclear physicists on OCN to dispel the lies of the International Atomic Energy Association.


x2

Interesting video I found on youtube.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB5GPud2KAU[/ame]


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *driftingforlife;13492280*
> umm, to my knowlege what happend is that the top of the reactor got blown off and 1 or 2 fuel rods with there graphite control rods, it was the graphite that was in the air. The fuel they used did melt though the floor of the reactor to a level under and formed into lava blops which didn't go down any further, thats why they called in loads of miners to dig a hole under the level were the melted fuel was and fit a cooling system but they scraped that idea and filled it will concrate.


This is indeed the case, I remember watching video of the workers digging under the building to put concrete flooring so the fuel couldn't get under the plant too far.

It it such a sad thing to watch now knowing how many died soon after or ended up getting serious diseases like cancer in their 30's-40's.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aaron_Henderson;13493201*
> I didn't say or imply anything about Chernobyl. Every time something is said, Chernobyl doesn't always need to be brought up. My point was about all the folks downplaying this like it was practically nothing, and couldn't possibly get any worse than it was a long time ago.


It hasn't gotten worse, weeks ago scientists said it was a level-7 disaster from the very first radiation readings. It's just that everytime somebody hears more news about it they all make it out like things continue to get worse. The truth is that as of about a week ago they've started getting more control of the cooling and radiation levels have now begun to drop in the surrounding area. Additionally they're not planning and working on new containment tanks that will hold excess water until it can be cleaned up.


----------



## Johnny Guitar

op update przz


----------



## Aaron_Henderson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon;13497819*
> This is indeed the case, I remember watching video of the workers digging under the building to put concrete flooring so the fuel couldn't get under the plant too far.
> 
> It it such a sad thing to watch now knowing how many died soon after or ended up getting serious diseases like cancer in their 30's-40's.
> 
> It hasn't gotten worse, weeks ago scientists said it was a level-7 disaster from the very first radiation readings. It's just that everytime somebody hears more news about it they all make it out like things continue to get worse. The truth is that as of about a week ago they've started getting more control of the cooling and radiation levels have now begun to drop in the surrounding area. Additionally they're not planning and working on new containment tanks that will hold excess water until it can be cleaned up.


The situation has gotten worse since the this thread first appeared. Maybe not within the past few weeks or anything, but I don't know all the specifics. I just know if you posted anything about this turning into as big of a disaster as it has thus far, you'd be made out to look like an idiot. You know it's true if you've been following along in this thread from the start. So many "know-it-alls" teaching everyone how things like meltdowns were not possible in whatever certain scenario because blah blah...Chernobyl. That is spreading misinformation as well, wouldn't you say? I'd say overall, the general populous could care less about any of this, because they have probably been hearing the same, "Oh, it's nothing. No big deal." attitude all over the place.


----------



## USFORCES

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[-Snake-]*


x2

Interesting video I found on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB5GPud2KAU


----------



## Hephasteus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Aaron_Henderson*


The situation has gotten worse since the this thread first appeared. Maybe not within the past few weeks or anything, but I don't know all the specifics. I just know if you posted anything about this turning into as big of a disaster as it has thus far, you'd be made out to look like an idiot. You know it's true if you've been following along in this thread from the start. So many "know-it-alls" teaching everyone how things like meltdowns were not possible in whatever certain scenario because blah blah...Chernobyl. That is spreading misinformation as well, wouldn't you say? I'd say overall, the general populous could care less about any of this, because they have probably been hearing the same, "Oh, it's nothing. No big deal." attitude all over the place.


I talked to a guy in sandiego california that bought a geiger counter after it happened. He's getting readings ranging from 4.5 to 11 times normal background reading. It used to come in on wind patterns but is pretty steady now. Not a danger yet If I was healthy I'd walk around that without freaking out but that's just 2 months to turn california into a low level radiation hazard. You have 2 mountain ranges. When you get that configuration, you make a dessert because the air has trouble bringing moisture over both mountain ranges. So the mountain ranges in california buffer the rest of the US but for how long I don't know. The dessert area in nevada and new mexico and such are pretty safe because not enough rainfall to pull it out of the air and colorado river should stay pretty clean for quite a while.

But it keeps belching out the radiation and people focus on wind patterns but it's in the ocean water and nobody is even modeling an ocean movement of it.


----------



## aweir

Latest update. The radiation is so high it can't be read with a Geiger counter. Sorry if it sounds alarmist.

On May 13, 2 Sieverts per hour detected in No. 1 reactor building, exceeding 1,000 millisieverts per hour - Levels too high for Geiger counter to measure. Radiation exposure in No. 1 building would be so high workers could not re-enter area for "several years". Are we talking years...or *DECADES*???

http://enenews.com/officials-radiation-exposure-in-no-1-building-would-be-so-high-workers-could-not-re-enter-area-for-several-years

http://enenews.com/radiation-unit-1-exceeds-1000-millisieverts-hour-levels-high-geiger-counter-unable-measure
Quote:


> Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry on July 11 on the second floor of Unit 1 nuclear reactor Hukushima first TEPCO announced that it has measured high levels of radioactive material exceeding 1000 mSv per hour.


*"Highly dangerous" levels of radiation detected in No. 3 reactor building of 49 to 120 millisieverts per hour. No one can enter the building.*

http://enenews.com/highly-dangerous-levels-of-radiation-detected-in-no-3-reactor-building-double-amount-from-april

*Uncontrolled nuclear chain reactions" may be coming from melted fuel in No. 1 reactor*
http://enenews.com/iaea-melted-fuel-in-no-1-reactor-may-be-causing-uncontrolled-nuclear-chain-reactions-bloomberg

*It is a fact that nuclear fuel melted a hole through Reactor No. 1*
http://enenews.com/govt-official-fact-nuclear-fuel-melted-reactor-1

*Nuclear fuel has melted in three reactors" - Risk of "massive radioactive release"*
Quote:


> Nuclear fuel has melted in three reactors at Japan's ***ushima Daiichi nuclear power plant and fallen to the lower sections of their container vessels, raising the specter of overheated material compromising a container and causing a massive radiation release, the Atomic Energy Society of Japan said in a report released on Friday&#8230;
> 
> Melted fuel rod fragments have sunk to the bottoms of three reactors at the ***ushima No. 1 power plant and could theoretically burn through the pressure vessels if emergency water-pumping operations are seriously disrupted, the Atomic Energy Society of Japan said Friday.
> 
> If too many of the melted fuel fragments puddle at the bottom, they can generate enough concentrated heat to bore a hole in the pressure vessel, which would result in a massive radioactive release to the environment. &#8230;


http://enenews.com/japan-report-fuel-has-melted-in-three-reactors-risk-of-massive-radioactive-release
*
And you need to realize how serious this is...*
Quote:


> Experts have warned of a potentially dangerous radiation leak if Japan proceeds with plans to flood a damaged reactor containment vessel at the ***ushima Daiichi nuclear plant. [...]
> 
> Greenpeace has urged Tepco to abandon plans to flood the container with water, given the likelihood that melted fuel has damaged it. Shaun Burnie, nuclear adviser to Greenpeace Germany, said: "Flooding a reactor that has fuel [that has fallen] through the pressure vessel is not a good idea."
> 
> Outlining a worst-case scenario, Burnie said very large amounts of cold water hitting the melted fuel could cause an explosion, trigger substantial damage to the reactor and create a "high risk of atmospheric release running for days, if not weeks." He added: "I think [the flooding option] will now be scrapped."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/13/***ushima-reactor-meltdown-flooding-warning


----------



## TwistedMind

Seen on the news yesterday that they are going to try and apply a tarp that is made out those suits to cover the buildings containing the reactors from particles escaping also they stated atleast 30 years to start the clean up.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;13509886*
> On May 13, 2 Sieverts per hour detected in No. 1 reactor building, exceeding 1,000 millisieverts per hour - Levels too high for Geiger counter to measure.


It's worth noting, if you read the original source:
Quote:


> *The location that registered the high radiation level was near the valve of the emergency core cooling system.* Measurement was done for 5 minutes starting 12:45PM on May 10 (JST), and at 1.6 meters from the floor the Geiger counter went overscale [and couldn't measure beyond 1,000 millisieverts/hour


Those are not atmospheric levels, only levels INSIDE the buildings. It's not worth overhyping the radioactivity unless you get those levels outdoors. Don't incite fear otherwise.


----------



## aweir

Well OK let's use some common sense..... What's *inside* the buildings will eventually be *OUTSIDE*, right?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Obviously blasting it into space is an unreasonable approach, but to say ALL of that radioactivity will spread outdoors and maintain that level of radioactivity far beyond the facility is quite absurd.


----------



## aweir

Two months ago when anyone had suggested a full meltdown, they scoffed and said that was absurd, too.

It's also important to note that total amount of radiation over a certain amount of time is just as dangerous as that same amount of radiation over a different amount of time. Receiving X amount of radiation in one day is just as dangerous as receiving it over a period of one month, So even if the radiation was not as "intense" when it escapes it will still be a high amount and contribute to the overall total exposure.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

So just because of that, it's reasonable to discredit any assumption that radioactivity will remain below harmful levels a significant distance beyond the Japanese coastline? I'm not sure why it seems worth the trouble to get all Chicken Little about this if you aren't living near the facility. Remember that this all happened only because the tsunami flooded the fuel tanks for the backup generators; had that not occurred, the reactors would all currently be in cold shutdown with spent fuel pools receiving sufficient cooling.


----------



## aweir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;13510292*
> Those are not atmospheric levels, only levels INSIDE the buildings. It's not worth overhyping the radioactivity unless you get those levels outdoors. Don't incite fear otherwise.


I believe you took it out of context to begin with . The problem is that the radiation INSIDE the building is so high that they might not ever be able to send workers in to fix it for years. So the fact that the radiation would be spread out doesn't even matter in the context of the article and it a moot point.


----------



## asuindasun

"concentration gradient" is a term i assume you've never heard.


----------



## Semyon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[-Snake-];13497253*
> x2
> 
> Interesting video I found on youtube.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB5GPud2KAU


That was one of the most ridiculous things i've ever seen.


----------



## aweir

^ Especially the eerie way she smiles after every sentence as if she's happy because she knows she's right.

"Radiation WILL kill you"..........*smile*


----------



## [-Snake-]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;13510487*
> ^ Especially the eerie way she smiles after every sentence as if she's happy because she knows she's right.
> 
> "Radiation WILL kill you"..........*smile*


Yea, I thought that was strange but the video was interesting nonetheless.


----------



## aweir

Quote:



Originally Posted by *asuindasun*


"concentration gradient" is a term i assume you've never heard.


 If I kept pouring salt into a glass of water eventually the water would become saltier and saltier because it had nowhere to go.


----------



## Semyon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


If I kept pouring salt into a glass of water eventually the water would become saltier and saltier because it had nowhere to go.


Actually if you keep pouring salt into water, the solution will quickly become saturated and the salt will simply collect at the bottom of the glass after forming a dynamic equilibrium.

Science FTW.


----------



## asuindasun

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


If I kept pouring salt into a glass of water eventually the water would become saltier and saltier because it had nowhere to go.


that is saturation, which applies to radiation in no way shape or form. chunky is correct, you are fail.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson

No one is "overhyping". This IS a big deal, no matter where you live in the world, whether you believe it is or not. It may not affect your health, but it will affect a myriad of other aspects of daily life. It's sickening to me that every time info is posted, legit or not, people attempt to shoot it down as "overhyping" or "sensationalizing". I don't know how something like this can just be shrugged of as insignificant and no big deal. This is the probably the biggest blow to nuclear energy in history, but yet, not a big deal somehow. This thread is kind of a joke if you look back and read it.


----------



## Domino

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[-Snake-]*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB5GPud2KAU


Her facial expressions. Sounds like she is over exaggerating things to get attention. She wants to see you react.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Aaron_Henderson*


No one is "overhyping". This IS a big deal, no matter where you live in the world, whether you believe it is or not. It may not affect your health, but it will affect a myriad of other aspects of daily life. It's sickening to me that every time info is posted, legit or not, people attempt to shoot it down as "overhyping" or "sensationalizing". I don't know how something like this can just be shrugged of as insignificant and no big deal. This is the probably the biggest blow to nuclear energy in history, but yet, not a big deal somehow. This thread is kind of a joke if you look back and read it.


Yup, this is something serious. But most people who don't understand the severity will cause others to overreact. Social turmoil is worse then everyone getting bone cancer in their 70s.

I'm not saying that we should take this with a grain of salt or leave it to the "professionals" to take care of it. This is indeed something serious that we need to draw attention to.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


Well OK let's use some common sense..... What's *inside* the buildings will eventually be *OUTSIDE*, right?


That's like saying a blast of C4 is really bad when you're standing on top of the C4, so it will also eventually be bad for everyone really far away as well.

You apparently don't understand how radiation works. Which makes you look really dumb when you post stuff like this:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


Phew...now I can relax better knowing we have nuclear physicists on OCN to dispel the lies of the International Atomic Energy Association.


As Chunky Chimp said earlier, please quit trying to incite fear. The real problem with this thread is the fear-mongering coming from people who don't understand nuclear power or how radiation and half-lives work. The levels of radiation coming from this incident are 1/10th of Chernobyl.


----------



## aweir

Quote:



Originally Posted by *asuindasun*


that is saturation, which applies to radiation in no way shape or form. chunky is correct, you are fail.


If you're so smart about it to point out that I'm wrong, then explain it... how a radiation leak in an enclosed space would not keep accumulating radiation so how would "concentration gradient" would apply there and why everyone here twisted the article out of context because they they don't have the greatest reading comprehension.


----------



## [-Snake-]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino;13512184*
> Her facial expressions. Sounds like she is over exaggerating things to get attention. She wants to see you react.


Besides analyzing here facial expressions, can any expert or someone with knowledge about this subject dissect anything she said? Is she 100% correct/incorrect? Half-right/half-wrong?

Anyone?


----------



## aweir

She is 50% fear mongering and 50% sugar coating. Therefore the truth is open to interpretation depending whether you see the glass as half full or half empty.

The answer lies in the question....._is she being paid to promote a book_? when it comes to nuclear energy we have extreme right and extreme left views with everybody so quick to yell fear mongering, which shows how childish they are that they have to label everything as simply black and white....the only way they can understand the world is to divide everything in two categories.


----------



## cdoublejj

to bad they have another 500 plants on coasts and fault lines i can this happening to another plant. Tell me why in the * would you put it on the shore to begin with, let alone near a fault line?


----------



## benyu

can someone make a TL;DR paragraph?


----------



## Semyon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[-Snake-]*


Besides analyzing here facial expressions, can any expert or someone with knowledge about this subject dissect anything she said? Is she 100% correct/incorrect? Half-right/half-wrong?

Anyone?


Utterly fallacious. Not a single scrap of proof or evidence to back up her claims. And her solution? Don't eat for 600 years.

Really.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*


to bad they have another 500 plants on coasts and fault lines i can this happening to another plant. Tell me why in the * would you put it on the shore to begin with, let alone near a fault line?


it will not happen again in Japan. They have shut down all other reactors at risk of a similar fate until they can upgrade the walls and cooling systems.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*


to bad they have another 500 plants on coasts and fault lines i can this happening to another plant. Tell me why in the * would you put it on the shore to begin with, let alone near a fault line?


They put them near the shore because it makes it MUCH easier to cool the plants. Think of it like watercooling your PC with a small lake.


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SgtSpike*


They put them near the shore because it makes it MUCH easier to cool the plants. Think of it like watercooling your PC with a small lake.










Except it needs a pump, in this case a diesel witch was flooded with water. think of it was water cooling like for your pc, except it leaks all over the mobo. while you make a good point they are exposed to tsunamis so it's a double edge sword.

I bet the US is just as bad. i'm sure we have accidents just waiting to happen. It's not all that smart to mess with stuff you don't fully understand and or aren't able to fully contain in worst case scenario.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*


Except it needs a pump, in this case a diesel witch was flooded with water. think of it was water cooling like for your pc, except it leaks all over the mobo. while you make a good point they are exposed to tsunamis so it's a double edge sword.

I bet the US is just as bad. i'm sure we have accidents just waiting to happen. It's not all that smart to mess with stuff you don't fully understand and or aren't able to fully contain in worst case scenario.


???

I never said it was a good idea, I was just saying that's why they did it. No need to get all riled up about it - you already stated your point previously.


----------



## Hawk777th

TEPCO admits nuclear meltdown occurred at ***ushima reactor 16 hours after quake.

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20110516p2a00m0na028000c.html


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hawk777th;13526777*
> TEPCO admits nuclear meltdown occurred at ***ushima reactor 16 hours after quake.
> 
> http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20110516p2a00m0na028000c.html


Dang.

All things considered we've come out of this fairly fortunate so far. Having at least one and possibly 3 fuel stacks in 3 separate reactor vessels liquefied into puddles...and the relatively low radioisotope emissions from the reactor buildings.


----------



## aweir

Oh the horror! Now Obama is monitoring the situation again and warning the Japanese government "to take steps" to stop TEPCO'S stock from declining.

Quote:



The steep drop in Tepco's stock price has already dealt a blow to investment funds in the United States. Nearly 20 percent of its stock is held by non-Japanese investors. This has reportedly led the Obama administration to urge the Kan government to take steps to prevent a further decline in Tepco stock.


http://enenews.com/report-obama-admi...in-tepco-stock

Not to turn this into a political discussion, but GIVE ME A BREAK! Lest any more filthy rich shareholders lose any money. There are more important things in the world besides stocks declining.

All 3 reactor cores are damaged and they say the fuel might have leaked through the bottom of all three now, and all the big cahoots can think of is dollar signs.


----------



## Singular1ty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj;13521992*
> Except it needs a pump, in this case a diesel witch was flooded with water. think of it was water cooling like for your pc, except it leaks all over the mobo. while you make a good point they are exposed to tsunamis so it's a double edge sword.
> 
> I bet the US is just as bad. i'm sure we have accidents just waiting to happen. It's not all that smart to mess with stuff you don't fully understand and or aren't able to fully contain in worst case scenario.


But we do fully understand it.

If you play with fire your gonna get burnt.

But, http://themoderatevoice.com/103840/even-the-worst-nuclear-power-plant-disasters-pale-in-comparison-to-fossil-fuels/

Just because the common man doesn't understand it doesn't mean the experts don't.

Nuclear power plants are incredibly safe. The US plants are literally built to take a direct plane crash/tornado strike and survive without having a disaster.

The Japanese reactor was "succesfully" shut down. Reactor cores four, five, and six had already been shut down to undergo routine maintanence before the earthquake. Cores one, two, and three succesfully underwent the SCRAM sequence due to the earthquake shutting them down.

The problem was that the fuel rods in reactor 1 which the Japanese had hoped were undamaged suffered damage which caused parts of the rods to be uncooled and caused portions of them to melt. This was what caused the disaster at reactor core 1. Because of this, steam was able to come into contact with exposed portions of uranium, oxidizing the metal and releasing hydrogen which later built up and exploded. Usually there are systems that burn away the hydrogen before it can build up, but these apparently failed due to electricity.

As of now the ***ushima I has suffered from a nuclear meltdown in reactor core 1. And there are multiple credible reports that fuel in reactor 4 underwent uncontrolled nuclear fission which is extremely dangerous because it did undergo a SCRAM procedure. But the fission was small enough that it passed unnoticed until scientists collected various chemicals which are the byproducts from nuclear fission. Even though there is not the correct fuel for a multi kilotons explosion from the reactor, there is enough in any one of the cores to create a dirty bomb. The explosion would be pretty small, maybe not even a kiloton, but with that much overheated uranium fuel it could heavily irradiate all of Japan.

funny story. The origin of the word SCRAM is that in the very first nuclear reactor the control rod was held up by a rope to a motor. Should there be an accident there was a man on the balcony in front the rope and control rod. He was given a sharp axe and was told that if there was a problem he was to chop the rope in half so that the control rod would fall into the reactor and shut it off. "SCRAM" is an acronym for "Safety Control Rod Axe Man"


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


Oh the horror! Now Obama is monitoring the situation again and warning the Japanese government "to take steps" to stop TEPCO'S stock from declining.

http://enenews.com/report-obama-admi...in-tepco-stock

Not to turn this into a political discussion, but GIVE ME A BREAK! Lest any more filthy rich shareholders lose any money. There are more important things in the world besides stocks declining.

All 3 reactor cores are damaged and they say the fuel might have leaked through the bottom of all three now, and all the big cahoots can think of is dollar signs.


You know, when "regular" people's retirements are partial holders of such companies, it doesn't just hurt the big cahoots - it hurts your and mine retirements as well.


----------



## aweir

Back on topic.

There is almost no way to continue this conversation now without it becoming politically charged because we have a serious issue... Japan is telling a completely different story about the disaster than the U.S or TEPCO.

Japan is saying that the situation is out of control. Now there is talk of nuclear reactions taking place outside the reactors containment vessel.

May 17: *There have been nuclear explosions" - "Ongoing nuclear reaction taking place now"* http://enenews.com/there-have-been-nuclear-explosions-ongoing-nuclear-reaction-taking-place-now-video

Here are some transcripts for you to read at your delight!
Quote:


> 0:45 Raging radioactive inferno taking place inside the reactor&#8230; we believe probably outside the reactor
> 1:00 The real situation is in fact far worse because there have been nuclear explosions we now know
> 2:15 We know that it is still fissioning&#8230; ongoing nuclear reaction taking place now&#8230; it is still going on
> 3:15 It's very hard to know how you could take control of the situation&#8230; the situation is essentially out of control


*Melted fuel in Reactor No. 3 appears to have burned through pressure vessel - Loaded with rods containing plutonium* http://enenews.com/melted-fuel-reactor-3-appears-burned-pressure-vessel

Ok, now read what the United states Government thinks of the situation.

*Report: Meltdown confirmation led Japan officials to begin evacuating on Tuesday - As U.S. nuclear agency stops monitoring ***ushima 'because the situation had improved'* http://enenews.com/report-meltdown-confirmation-led-japan-officials-begin-evacuating-tuesday-nuclear-agency-stops-monitoring-***ushima-because-situation-improved
Quote:


> The United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission said on Monday that its 24-hour operations center had stopped monitoring the nuclear reactors at the ***ushima Daiichi plant because the situation there had improved. "The conditions at the Japanese reactors are slowly stabilizing," said William Borchardt, the agency's chief staff official. "[...] conditions have continued to improve [...]"


*EPA shut down ***ushima radiation monitoring after finding high levels of radiation in drinking water* http://enenews.com/watchdog-inexplicable-epa-shut-down-***ushima-radiation-monitoring-after-finding-high-levels-radiation-drinking-water
Quote:


> With the Japanese nuclear situation still out of control and expected to continue that way for months and with elevated radioactivity continuing to show up in the U.S., it is inexplicable that EPA would shut down its ***ushima radiation monitoring effort,"


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

In what way do "isotopic ratios" prove there were any "nuclear explosions"? More importantly, why are you ONLY referencing that one website? Because it looks like you're only doing it to help promote the same fear that they are.


----------



## aweir

Do you have any other sites to contribute to the discussion??

Why don't you register an account and ask over there on energy news? I can't think of a more fitting name of a site. Maybe I should be reading the Christian Science Monitor?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

That's not an answer to my question.


----------



## Semyon

nuclear explosions seem a bit far fetched but reactions would make sense since, if the fuel were melted, there would be no control rods, would there?


----------



## PriceEddie

Can't believe that people are still making this out to be a huge ordeal when it really isn't.

There is no escaping overhyping, whether an issue is in the news or not. If it is in the news sources are covering something up and if it isn't then they are intentionally being quiet! There is no pleasing some people!

I am very open for being changing my mind given sufficient quantity and authority of evidence but there is nothing I have seen on this forum or any other that has instill any thought of error.

Eddie.


----------



## aweir

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


That's not an answer to my question.


Well I'm not nuclear scientist, I'm just the messenger so I wouldn't really know the answer to the question. It seems no other news outlet is covering it anymore because everyone's attention is focused on Libya and the U.S media is making it seem like its all over. www.bbc.co.uk isn't even covering it anymore.

doesn't that seem strange to anyone??

AFAIK this is the only place to get updates and they get THEIR information from interviews with nuclear experts. http://enenews.com/
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/


----------



## _02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;13551178*
> doesn't that seem strange to anyone??


Not at all, unfortunately.

Nuclear disaster aint sellin this month.


----------



## Hawk777th

*MIT. Atmosphere Above Japan Heated Rapidly Before M9 Earthquake *

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/26773/


----------



## Singular1ty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


In what way do "isotopic ratios" prove there were any "nuclear explosions"? More importantly, why are you ONLY referencing that one website? Because it looks like you're only doing it to help promote the same fear that they are.


In the same way you can figure out what kind of explosive was used in a bomb after it went off.

The reactors are currently pouring out certain isotopes of iodine, those isotopes are created when exposed to irradiated by fuel rods. But we have also detected other isotopes, those isotopes could have only been created during a nuclear fission reaction.

Its possible that those fission isotopes were created during the plant's operation but have only been released due to the catastrophic events. But that is not very likely at all.

And it is currently well known that scientists have found amounts of fission reaction isotopes. If you see black smoke on the horizon you assume that there is a fire, even though you cannot see the fire you know that's the only cause.

Same thing here, scientists found those isotopes. Those certain isotopes can only be the resultant of a nuclear fission reaction, and a recent one too. Hence, it is fair to say there has been an uncontrolled very small scale nuclear fission reaction in reactor 4 or reactor 1.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Semyon*


nuclear explosions seem a bit far fetched but reactions would make sense since, if the fuel were melted, there would be no control rods, would there?


Semyon, the concept behind a nuclear reaction is that of splitting uranium to release three or four more neutrons. But that's in theory. In a nuclear bomb you need two or more of those neutrons to hit other atoms. When the neutrons released from a bomb create more then one reaction that is called being "super critical". It is when the reaction rate is increasing.

Sub critical is when the average number of reactions is less then one. That means that the reaction rate is steadily decreasing. This is called being "sub critical".

Critical is when it is a perfect 1:1 ratio, but it is impossible to hit and maintain it. The control rods capture neutrons from the reaction, they are constantly moved in and out of the reactor to oscillate between super critical and sub critical so that it averages to just critical.

The overrall shape of the uranium mass is important to. The ideal shape for super criticality is a sphere because then very few neutrons are wasted, but it doesn't have to be a sphere, just any large solid chunk of uranium will do.

The ideal shape for sub criticality is a thin sheet where most of the neutrons escape.

The ideal shape for criticality is cylindrical like the rods in a reactor.

Now that that's out of the way here is the problem. In order to scram a reactor all of the rods must be lowered all the way (or in this sort of reactor they are actually pushed upwards from the bottom). The rods are attached to motors, and between the motor and the rod is a very powerful spring. That way even if you lose electrical power the spring can still push the rod into the reactor easily. It takes maybe four minutes to SCRAM and shut down a reactor.

Here is the scary bit. The nuclear fission reactions seem to have come out of reactor number 1. Number one underwent a supposedly succesful SCRAM sequence. The nuclear control rods were completely inserted into the reactor forcing it to go completely sub critical.

If there was a nuclear fission reaction that means that something in the reactor happened that not only managed to eliminate the ability of several control rods to control the reaction, but to actually jumpstart the nuclear reactor even for a short time.

This is a supreme, incredible hazard.

The biggest danger is because portions of the fuel rods have melted. If those molten pieces start to pool at the bottom of the reactor and if they are in an area where the control rods are unable to control the reaction then it is very possible that they can form a super critical mass.

Once a super critical mass of nuclear material has been created it is extremely easy to set off a reaction. Just a stray set of neutrons from the environment can set if off. One second its just sitting there, the next...Hiroshima.

That is why in a nuclear bomb the nuclear material is stored in such a way that it is sub critical. In the tall boy bomb the uranium was stored in two seperate sub critical chunks and the chunks and once they came together they detonated. In the plutonium bomb the plutonium was a hollowed out sub critical sphere, to make it supercritical shaped charges compressed it into a small enough sphere so that it hit super criticality.

If enough nuclear material melts into a pile in the reactor then in theory it can form a super critical mass. Once a few neutrons hit it then it will set it off, and considering that those radioactive uranium fuel rods that are still intact are literally pouring out loads of neutrons means that it will not take very long (maybe less then a few seconds) between when that pile becomes super critical and when it gets set off. The size of the pile necessary to become super critical depends on the fuel quality, the shape of the reactor, the temperature, and other factors. But since it is only nuclear reactor quality fuel (which is less then that of bomb quality) it would be smaller then a nuclear bomb.

That still means several kilotons of destructive power. What's worse is that the impromptu bomb would literally be surrounded by radioactive material, tons and tons of extremely radioactive uranium either in the other reactors or in the spent fuel pools.

I'm no expert. But the radioactive fall out would be devestating. This would probably irradiate the island of Japan so severely it would necessitate a total evacuation of the island as well as north and south korea, the east coastal areas of China, and the east coastal areas of Russia. As well as serious irradiation in the Phillipines and Pacific islands including Hawaii. Due to the jet stream it would have some effects on the continental United States, Canada, and Central America.

This is a worst case scenario. But it is the implication of an unsuccesful SCRAM and deteriorating control of the nuclear reactor.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *_02*


Not at all, unfortunately.

Nuclear disaster aint sellin this month.


There was an uncontrolled nuclear reaction happening in a reactor which was succesfully SCRAMed and shut down.

That's like shutting down your computer desktop yet your still able to play video games off of a supposedly turned off computer.

The tremendous fear is that if there was a very tiny uncontrolled nuclear fission reaction then there could very easily be a very large uncontrolled nuclear fission explosion. Especially if the rods start melting into a gigantic super critical mass at the bottom of the reactor.

It is possible that reactor 1 could literally be turning into a nuclear explosion fueled dirty bomb.

A dirty bomb is radioactive material in a jacket around a conventional bomb, the bomb scatters the material over a large radius and it can be deadly to anyone within block and extremely unhealthy to anyone within several blocks. Imagine what happens if rather then maybe a few pounds of radioactive material that's being spread its several tons of the stuff. And a lot of it is expended uranium which is extremely radioactive. Then imagine that the conventional bomb is replaced with a low yield nuclear fission device.

That's a disaster that makes Katrina, Chernobyl, 3 Mile island, and the earthquake itself look like jokes.

This is the worst case scenario. Somehow the SCRAM sequence failed in at least one small area of the reactor which is in and of itself scary as all hell. On a scale of one to ten, this is an eleven. If somehow the SCRAM failed or that some control rods were at least somewhat damaged in an area towards the bottom that is significantly large enough for a supercritical mass of uranium to build up then that means there will be a nuclear explosion.

At this point in time, a nuclear melt down of reactor 1 is one of the better case scenarios. A total nuclear explosion of reactor 1 releasing tons of extremely radioactive radioactive fuel across the planet is without a doubt THE worst case scenario.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Singular1ty*


If enough nuclear material melts into a pile in the reactor then in theory it can form a super critical mass. Once a few neutrons hit it then it will set it off, and considering that those radioactive uranium fuel rods that are still intact are literally pouring out loads of neutrons means that it will not take very long (maybe less then a few seconds) between when that pile becomes super critical and when it gets set off. The size of the pile necessary to become super critical depends on the fuel quality, the shape of the reactor, the temperature, and other factors. But since it is only nuclear reactor quality fuel (which is less then that of bomb quality) it would be smaller then a nuclear bomb.


Interesting, but my point is that if an explosion of the magnitude you suggest HAD occurred (and even under those conditions I doubt you'd get a kiloton-plus explosion; no such thing happened at Three Mile Island at any rate), you'd bet the media would go right back to reporting on the power plant.

Another point to consider is this; if TEPCO/Japan's govt. was covering this up, and conditions DID go worst case scenario at at least one reactor, why is OUR media not saying anything about it? We don't have any reason to cover it up, so why not report on THEM covering it up if they're doing that? I won't deny TEPCO's history, but I will say it's worth having some faith in their ability to handle the situation. For a few weeks they were handling it with the whole world watching, and if you were employed by the company at the time, you can bet you wouldn't have had the chance to screw up or even cover up.


----------



## aweir

^interesting question. If they were covering it up, we wouldn't know... unless an unregulated news outlet leaked the news to us through underground channels, or by an insider... but then someone would say "why aren't you providing *other* sources?" and because no other sources would be confirming it, it wouldn't be believed, therefore no reason to suspect coverup.

*Nuclear Engineer: Almost all nuclear engineers have known since early on that the reactors have melted through the core* http://www.huffingtonpost.com/vivian-norris-de-montaigu/interview-with-akira-toku_b_863297.html

U.S Professor Tokuhiro was able to add also included a strong dose of a deep understanding of the Japanese culture.
Quote:


> He added that TEPCO is a large entity which only has to answer to the Prime Minister...The mass media in Japan is only given the information TEPCO and the government want to give them...almost all nuclear engineers following this disaster know, and have known since almost the beginning, that the reactors have melted through the core and that this has not been admitted until just these past few days when access to the computer data from the control rooms was obtained.


----------



## cdoublejj

it's may 19th whats the low down, they gonna put a coffin around it? how the * do you move highly radioactive material thats spewed all over the place.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


^interesting question. If they were covering it up, we wouldn't know... unless an unregulated news outlet leaked the news to us through underground channels, or by an insider... but then someone would say "why aren't you providing *other* sources?" and because no other sources would be confirming it, it wouldn't be believed, therefore no reason to suspect coverup.

*Nuclear Engineer: Almost all nuclear engineers have known since early on that the reactors have melted through the core* http://www.huffingtonpost.com/vivian..._b_863297.html

U.S Professor Tokuhiro was able to add also included a strong dose of a deep understanding of the Japanese culture.


Yes, this has been mentioned a few times already, it was reported weeks ago that this was likely the case, by other credible sources like NPR.


----------



## Singular1ty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Interesting, but my point is that if an explosion of the magnitude you suggest HAD occurred (and even under those conditions I doubt you'd get a kiloton-plus explosion; no such thing happened at Three Mile Island at any rate), you'd bet the media would go right back to reporting on the power plant.

Another point to consider is this; if TEPCO/Japan's govt. was covering this up, and conditions DID go worst case scenario at at least one reactor, why is OUR media not saying anything about it? We don't have any reason to cover it up, so why not report on THEM covering it up if they're doing that? I won't deny TEPCO's history, but I will say it's worth having some faith in their ability to handle the situation. For a few weeks they were handling it with the whole world watching, and if you were employed by the company at the time, you can bet you wouldn't have had the chance to screw up or even cover up.


The thing is that the fission reaction which has probably occured was tiny. It wasn't even enough to cause any noticeable damage to the reactor.

That small fission reaction isn't what's scary. It's the fact that somehow a fission reaction happened in a reactor which was SCRAMed. A SCRAM sequence is made so that once it happens it is literally impossible to kickstart a nuclear fission reaction until the control rods are removed from the reactor.

Dude, I am talking about several tons of uranium and plutonium being shot into the atmosphere by several hundred kilograms of fissioning uranium.

If that happened it would literally be impossible to cover it up. Every person who owns a geiger counter (and there's a lot of people that do) would notice that their geiger counters are going insane. The heat from the reaction would set off every spy satellite in that hemisphere which happened when Chernobyl had a melt down.

Nuclear fuel rods constantly produce tremendous heat, they do not need nuclear fission to keep heating up. That is what a melt down is. It's not a fission reaction, its when the fuel rods have evaporated enough water from the reactor that the air tight reactor room literally pops like a balloon releasing very radioactive steam into the air.

***ushima had an uncontrolled nuclear reaction. Do you have any idea how dangerous that is?

TEPCO can't possibly cover this up, because it makes logical steps:

1. Uncontrolled nuclear reaction implies a partially failed SCRAM.

2. Control rods could have been damaged in a small area allowing the tiny reaction to happen.

3. Other control rods could have been damaged.

4. Portions of uranium has been melted.

5. molten uranium falls to the bottom of the reactor.

6. Uranium creates a large enough mass to go super critical.

7. controls rods at the bottom of the reactor are damaged like the ones that allowed the small reaction to happen. (I'm kinda iffy on this one because it may be possible to skip this step and go straight to number 8)

8. Stray bombardment from neutrons in the reactor cause the super critical mass to detonate.

9. Bang

We know that steps 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 have happened.

Hopefully not much uranium has actually pooled into a mass in the bottom of the reactor. But we do know in reactor 1 that there are portions of uranium rods that could not be cooled and were melted.

In theory since the control rods are inserted through the bottom then the base of a control rod is harder to damage then the top.

Number 8 is the easiest to accomplish. The major obstacle to a fission explosion is that it needs enough uranium to pool together at the bottom of the reactor. Which is the reason for the rush to cool the reactor with any water they could get, even salt water. To prevent that much mass from accumulating.

The chances of a nuclear fission explosion happening are relatively slim. But to say that this disaster is over is far from the truth.


----------



## Singular1ty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*


it's may 19th whats the low down, they gonna put a coffin around it? how the * do you move highly radioactive material thats spewed all over the place.


They are gonna have to, no way they are gonna transport that much radioactive material in so little time.

The design of the fuel rods is such that they are innately sub critical if you add in certain chemicals as well as the control rods. If they can verify that no more uncontrolled reaction will occur then the next step would be to put a large metal circle a foot or two thick ontop of the reactor with two holes maybe a foot in diameter drilled on the top. Then attach two long pipes on top to act as a snorkel and make it at least five feet high. Then add concrete to the top of the circle until it is just below the top of the pipe with a lot of concrete. You do this gradually. The first snorkel is for the steam, the second is for concrete and water. You want to pour in concrete at the same rate as the water is escaping as steam. Otherwise you will either have so much water that it has a melt down and blows off the concrete cap or there is so little that parts of the uranium are exposed to the air, melt, and pool at the bottom. The latter is not as problematic because since the concret is being added the molten chunks will be buried before they attain sufficient mass for super criticality.

Once you fill the entire reactor with conrete you then fill the snorkels with concrete and cap them off.

Then cover the entire reactor in, as you put it, a concrete coffin. That is the point at which we can call it "safe"


----------



## cdoublejj

from my under standing Chernobyl is that even then there is still an unsafe area around the plant noticeable area too. I was taught in science class that this stuff has an very long half life some like some several hundreds years or something if i remember correctly.
My guess is we don't fully under stand this stuff since there is no way to clean it up then again when you have parts of atoms and neurons flying all over the place attaching them selves to what ever (witch is my guess at what radiation is) there may never be.


----------



## Hephasteus

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*   from my under standing Chernobyl is that even then there is still an unsafe area around the plant noticeable area too. I was taught in science class that this stuff has an very long half life some like some several hundreds years or something if i remember correctly.
My guess is we don't fully under stand this stuff since there is no way to clean it up then again when you have parts of atoms and neurons flying all over the place attaching them selves to what ever (witch is my guess at what radiation is) there may never be.  
Well the problem is when it gets in your system or your food Cesium 137 gets sucked up by plant life very readily. All the tea in japan i already too radioactive to sell. It gets in grass that cows graze so it's in milk.

The biggest problem is strontium 90 which gets in bones and teeth. When it's in your bones it can disrupt heme synthesis and cause leukemia. The amount of strontium 90 in peoples bones and teeth in USA and the epidemic of leukemia and bone cancers was what caused bans on nuclear above ground testing.

This is a hot moxed plutonium plant. You take uranium and put it in the fuel pool. The fuel pool is irradiated by the reactors excess neutrons and those excess neutrons build up the fuel in the pool from uranium to plutonium.

The accident at chernobyl they had to inject lead into it to disrupt the reaction and turn it into a molten lava and then encase it. The case needs to be redone and repaired and will need it again in the future.

Since this is so much plutonium and it's on a shoreline and you can't do any of the chernobyl tricks and it's already busted through into the sea and bedrock below it's pretty much unworkable. Even if it was you'd have to keep encasing it every so often for the next 20 thousand years as heat breaks down concrete and this thing puts out a bunch of heat.

You get these with leaked submarine cores but those only use a few hundred lbs of bad stuff. This is several tons of really bad stuff. Exploding bombs are much safer in many ways than leaks. But here's our history.

  
 You Tube


----------



## Singular1ty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*


from my under standing Chernobyl is that even then there is still an unsafe area around the plant noticeable area too. I was taught in science class that this stuff has an very long half life some like some several hundreds years or something if i remember correctly.
My guess is we don't fully under stand this stuff since there is no way to clean it up then again when you have parts of atoms and neurons flying all over the place attaching them selves to what ever (witch is my guess at what radiation is) there may never be.


For all intensive purposes we do fully understand it.

Just because I can't make my skin bullet proof does not mean I don't understand a bullet.

According to your argument humanity does not understand garbage because they cannot get rid of it while leaving no trace.

The kind of physics involved in this is not even close to the frontlines of physics research. Understanding nuclear reactions is basic physics.

Since you seem interested in radiation here it is:

Alpha radiation: Simply a helium nucleus. Two protons, two neutrons, and no electrons. For this reason since it has a large positive charge it will stick to practically any surface it comes across without doing any significant damage. It cannot penetrate more then a piece of paper.

Beta radiation: A free electron. This has a negative charge but since it is so much lighter then an alpha particle it can travel much faster and penetrate a bit deeper then an alpha ray, it is dangerous only if a substance which releases beta rays is ingested.

Gamma radiation (also known as photon radiation): Basically a photon with a high frequency and short wavelength. Because of the nature of the photon it can penetrate extremely deep through surfaces, requiring a very very very thick wall to capture and stop it.

Neutron radiation: A free neutron. Because it is a single neutron it can move faster then an alpha ray but slower then a beta or gamma ray. Since it has no charge the only way it can be stopped is by a direct collision with the nucleus of an atom. The problem is that if a nucleus were a baseball, the electron shell of an atom would be the size of the baseball field. So much of an atom is empty space that a neutron can easily pass through. It can penetrate extremely far into a surface. But when they do get stopped and absorbed into an atom it can make that atom radioactive.

Different unstable elements will release different types of radiation.


----------



## Singular1ty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hephasteus*


Well the problem is when it gets in your system or your food Cesium 137 gets sucked up by plant life very readily. All the tea in japan i already too radioactive to sell. It gets in grass that cows graze so it's in milk.

The biggest problem is strontium 90 which gets in bones and teeth. When it's in your bones it can disrupt heme synthesis and cause leukemia. The amount of strontium 90 in peoples bones and teeth in USA and the epidemic of leukemia and bone cancers was what caused bans on nuclear above ground testing.

This is a hot moxed plutonium plant. You take uranium and put it in the fuel pool. The fuel pool is irradiated by the reactors excess neutrons and those excess neutrons build up the fuel in the pool from uranium to plutonium.

The accident at chernobyl they had to inject lead into it to disrupt the reaction and turn it into a molten lava and then encase it. The case needs to be redone and repaired and will need it again in the future.

Since this is so much plutonium and it's on a shoreline and you can't do any of the chernobyl tricks and it's already busted through into the sea and bedrock below it's pretty much unworkable. Even if it was you'd have to keep encasing it every so often for the next 20 thousand years as heat breaks down concrete and this thing puts out a bunch of heat.

You get these with leaked submarine cores but those only use a few hundred lbs of bad stuff. This is several tons of really bad stuff. Exploding bombs are much safer in many ways than leaks. But here's our history.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCF7vPanrY


Yah, its impractical to have to encase a reactor with concrete. But so what?

Its not like there's an alternative.


----------



## SgtSpike

The whole explosion theory is a pile of .... yeah.

Nuclear power plant fuel is enriched (or purified) to 3%. Nuclear weapons fuel is enriched to something like 97%.

There is no way that power plant fuel can explode like weapons fuel. It is purposefully enriched to ONLY 3% to make it more easily controllable.


----------



## aweir

^question. Not to stray off topic, but if this was the case, why do we freak out when we hear of another country enriching low grade uranium only for nuclear power plants? Like when Iran says they are enriching it only for nuclear fuel, then it would not be possible to make a nuclear bomb out of it???


----------



## Semyon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


^question. Not to stray off topic, but if this was the case, why do we freak out when we hear of another country enriching low grade uranium only for nuclear power plants? Like when Iran says they are enriching it only for nuclear fuel, then it would not be possible to make a nuclear bomb out of it???


because if they are enriching for fuel, they can enrich for weapons. We don't know how much they're enriching the uranium.


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Singular1ty*   For all intensive purposes we do fully understand it.

Just because I can't make my skin bullet proof does not mean I don't understand a bullet.

According to your argument humanity does not understand garbage because they cannot get rid of it while leaving no trace.

The kind of physics involved in this is not even close to the frontlines of physics research. Understanding nuclear reactions is basic physics.

Since you seem interested in radiation here it is:

Alpha radiation: Simply a helium nucleus. Two protons, two neutrons, and no electrons. For this reason since it has a large positive charge it will stick to practically any surface it comes across without doing any significant damage. It cannot penetrate more then a piece of paper.

Beta radiation: A free electron. This has a negative charge but since it is so much lighter then an alpha particle it can travel much faster and penetrate a bit deeper then an alpha ray, it is dangerous only if a substance which releases beta rays is ingested.

Gamma radiation (also known as photon radiation): Basically a photon with a high frequency and short wavelength. Because of the nature of the photon it can penetrate extremely deep through surfaces, requiring a very very very thick wall to capture and stop it.

Neutron radiation: A free neutron. Because it is a single neutron it can move faster then an alpha ray but slower then a beta or gamma ray. Since it has no charge the only way it can be stopped is by a direct collision with the nucleus of an atom. The problem is that if a nucleus were a baseball, the electron shell of an atom would be the size of the baseball field. So much of an atom is empty space that a neutron can easily pass through. It can penetrate extremely far into a surface. But when they do get stopped and absorbed into an atom it can make that atom radioactive.

Different unstable elements will release different types of radiation.  
Not to be an ass but in that case whats radioactive mean?

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *aweir*   ^question. Not to stray off topic, but if this was the case, why do we freak out when we hear of another country enriching low grade uranium only for nuclear power plants? Like when Iran says they are enriching it only for nuclear fuel, then it would not be possible to make a nuclear bomb out of it???  
 Politicians also tend to get riled up easily.

  
 You Tube


----------



## Killam0n

haha man nerf nuke good stuff.


----------



## Hephasteus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SgtSpike*


The whole explosion theory is a pile of .... yeah.

Nuclear power plant fuel is enriched (or purified) to 3%. Nuclear weapons fuel is enriched to something like 97%.

There is no way that power plant fuel can explode like weapons fuel. It is purposefully enriched to ONLY 3% to make it more easily controllable.


Ok mr nuclear scientist. How many neutron bursts did reactor 1 put out on it's meltdown and what kind of fuel you need to do that.


----------



## Killam0n

reactor 3 has been confirmed to be powered by plutonium as it is a MOX reactor and that is the one that is the most dangerous.


----------



## bomfunk

Quote:



For all intensive purposes we do fully understand it.


For all what?


----------



## Blameless

A nuclear explosion is indeed a physical impossibility.

There is not enough fuel in any of these reactors for a critical mass of U235 to form. They are only enriched to a few percent, and at those levels, you would need thousands of kilograms of fuel to collect in a favorable shape and be held there for a long enough period of time without melting through it's container, boiling off, or otherwise becoming sub-critical.

U235 is not going to separate from the other isotopes in the fuel on it's own. If it were so easy, countries wouldn't need to spend billions on the equipment needed to enrich it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Killam0n*


reactor 3 has been confirmed to be powered by plutonium as it is a MOX reactor and that is the one that is the most dangerous.


This is true, but it's no more possible for it to go critical.


----------



## aweir

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Killam0n*


reactor 3 has been confirmed to be powered by plutonium as it is a MOX reactor and that is the one that is the most dangerous.


Isn't this common knowledge by now? They have been saying this since day 1 and people are still like "OMG it has MOX fuel!"


----------



## finalturismo

acually, they have not stopped them from burning....
http://www.euronews.net/2011/05/14/f...all-out-tents/

They could be releasing radioactive material into the atmosphere for the next 5+ years

(thats why they are putting the tents over them)


----------



## Hephasteus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blameless*


A nuclear explosion is indeed a physical impossibility.

This is true, but it's no more possible for it to go critical.


You know you don't have to explode all your nuclear fuel for a nuclear explosion. A couple of grams of the fuel can "bomb" out while the rest gets scattered which is exactly what happened.
Have you ever seen the TSAR bomb? They had to drop the bomb size on it because the original explosion only resulted in 57 percent of the fuel being exploded.
So yes you can have a nuclear explosion, no it's not a physical impossibility. It's a physical impossibiliy for ALL the fuel to go up at once. For that you need a core design and you need to put it in a thick shell even thicker than a containment shell to get it all going off at once.

But a half gram here a gram there can explode all on its own blowing things all over which is what they think happened. The plutonium melted to bottom of the pool and exploded resulting in lifting of fuel and scattering and a big giant hole in the roof and side of the building. The yeild of the explosion was probably only a few hundred pounds tnt equivalancy.


----------



## Singular1ty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


^question. Not to stray off topic, but if this was the case, why do we freak out when we hear of another country enriching low grade uranium only for nuclear power plants? Like when Iran says they are enriching it only for nuclear fuel, then it would not be possible to make a nuclear bomb out of it???


Because one of the easier ways to enrich uranium for weapons grade fuel involves the use of a nuclear reactor.


----------



## Singular1ty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SgtSpike*


The whole explosion theory is a pile of .... yeah.

Nuclear power plant fuel is enriched (or purified) to 3%. Nuclear weapons fuel is enriched to something like 97%.

There is no way that power plant fuel can explode like weapons fuel. It is purposefully enriched to ONLY 3% to make it more easily controllable.


I hate to break it to you. But its already happened, did you not hear the part about the fact that there has already been a small uncontrolled nuclear fission reaction? They do not enrich it as much because it makes it easier to control. Its like the difference between nitroglycerine and gasoline.

Sure the nitro is far easier to detonate and has a bigger bang for the size. But that doesn't mean that with enough gasoline in a small enough space it cannot explode.


----------



## Singular1ty

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*


Not to be an ass but in that case whats radioactive mean?

Politicians also tend to get riled up easily.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUbqbpBX1Us


Well if you take the word apart you get this. "Radioactive" goes to "radiation", which comes from the word "radiate"

To put it simply, the heavier an element becomes above a certain point the more likely it is to have a radioactive isotope.

Radioactive simply means that it is an isotope that gives off some kind of radiation.

And radiation in reality can mean anything from infrared radiation, electromagnetic radiation (all sorts of light in the electromagnetic spectrum) and such.

In the context of nuclear mechanics it pretty much simply means a material that gives off radiation.

"So then why is it that if I put a non radioactive piece of metal in a reactor and then take it out, they say it is radioactive?"

Well the reason is because of the neutron radiation. The fuel rods of the reactor release cr*ploads of the stuff. When a piece of neutron radiation (which is really just a really fast moving lone neutron) impacts an atom and it just so happens to hit the nucleus of the atom and bond to it the atom becomes a different isotope.

But often enough that atom doesn't want an extra neutron and will try and get rid of it through different methods. Usually through radiation because it has become unstable. An atom that becomes unstable wants to become stable again, usually by getting rid of something, that something can be a photon (gamma radiation), two protons with two neutrons (alpha radiation), a single electron (beta radiation), or just spit out another neutron or even two (neutron radiation).

That is why the piece of metal has become radioactive, because a ton of neutrons have attached themselves to the atoms the atoms have become unstable. In order to become stable they need to get rid of something, and that something changes depending on what element it is. Radiation is basically the stuff that the atom has gotten rid of in order to try and become stable again.

I hope I explained it well for you.


----------



## Singular1ty

The one big safeguard in the nature of nuclear power plants is their design by nature.

There have been sixty criticality accidents none of which detonated. Any number of reasons can be contributed to this. For one, none of them involved masses of uranium the size of what can potentially be reached in Reactor core 1.

The big danger is radiation (then again, when isn't it?). A criticality accident is basically when a chunk of uranium somehow becomes super critical for some period of time. Some are environmental reasons or experimental accidents.

A criticality accident releases tremendous amounts of radiation in tiny lengths of time. Cecil Kelley, a chemical operator was irradiated when a larger amount then usual of plutonium entered a reclamation tank.

When the plutonium became super critical Kelley was looking through the window of the tank, technicians said they saw a bright flash of light that knocked him off his ladder, he then ran outside and was in the snow yelling that he was "burning up".

500 rads is more then enough radiation to kill a person. In the span of 200 microseconds Kelley was irradiated with 3,600 rads of neutron and gamma radiation. He died 35 hours later.

That was a very small amount of radioactive material fissioning for a very short period of time, imagine what happens when small portions of a nuclear reactor core filled with the stuff starts to have random criticality accidents. Even if every criticality is small, each one can release tremendous amounts of radiation (including loads of neutron radiation) and the by products of each one can potentially influence more criticality's.

If there are many of these criticalities happening then the situation is an even bigger problem then Chernobyl. Chernobyl did not have too much of a problem with accidental criticalities, if memory serves they did not have any.

But you see, the neutron radiation released makes the area around the reactor (within a hundred feet) radioactive due to the instability caused by the nutrons. As more criticalities occur the area will become extremely, extremely radioactive. At Chernobyl the workers tasked with working near the reactor could only be there for three minutes before their shift ended and the "liquidators" that worked on the roof tops only 40 seconds. I think that if any more criticalities occur, I would say a minute would be really pushing it for anything within 200 feet of the core.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


^question. Not to stray off topic, but if this was the case, why do we freak out when we hear of another country enriching low grade uranium only for nuclear power plants? Like when Iran says they are enriching it only for nuclear fuel, then it would not be possible to make a nuclear bomb out of it???


They can continue enriching nuclear fuel for a power plant to get to weapons-grade fuel. We freak out because enriching uranium for power-grade fuel is a stepping stone towards having nuclear-grade fuel.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hephasteus*


Ok mr nuclear scientist. How many neutron bursts did reactor 1 put out on it's meltdown and what kind of fuel you need to do that.










No clue. I'm not a nuclear scientist.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Singular1ty*


I hate to break it to you. But its already happened, did you not hear the part about the fact that there has already been a small uncontrolled nuclear fission reaction? They do not enrich it as much because it makes it easier to control. Its like the difference between nitroglycerine and gasoline.

Sure the nitro is far easier to detonate and has a bigger bang for the size. But that doesn't mean that with enough gasoline in a small enough space it cannot explode.


Sure, there's uncontrolled nuclear fissions reactions. I'm not arguing that that happens. What I AM arguing against is the people who say that it could explode. No, it cannot. Power-grade uranium cannot explode. It's just impossible, because it's not enriched enough to have a quick enough and large enough chain reaction to cause an explosion.


----------



## Hephasteus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;13580870*
> They can continue enriching nuclear fuel for a power plant to get to weapons-grade fuel. We freak out because enriching uranium for power-grade fuel is a stepping stone towards having nuclear-grade fuel.
> 
> No clue. I'm not a nuclear scientist.


It pulsed 13 times during the meltdown. Any one of those pulses had you been in it you would have died within hours. Nuclear powerplant fuel doesn't do that.

"Sure, there's uncontrolled nuclear fissions reactions. I'm not arguing that that happens. What I AM arguing against is the people who say that it could explode. No, it cannot. Power-grade uranium cannot explode. It's just impossible, because it's not enriched enough to have a quick enough and large enough chain reaction to cause an explosion. "

As soon as that thing pulsed on meltdown it set off everybody's satelites that are sensor packed for nuclear detection which is why they admitted it. Power grade uranium can explode. It is balanced for excess neutrons which are sucked up by the nickle control rods. You remove the control rods and it starts an explosion. It's a very very slow explosion and the core simply melts down before it reaches an explosion but some of the fuel will go off. If it's only a few atoms and results in 10 lb of tnt explosion then that's the end of the explosion. ALL the fuel won't explode because there's not enough excess neutrons to do it. 13 neutron pulses were created one of them hit other fuel and caused a small explosion relative to a nuclear bomb. It was rather large as these buildings are not cracker boxes. They are thick they are rough they are tough and it blew one of them to nearly shreds and put massive I beams in the fuel pool.

So you're sort of right. No a powerplant can't go full nuclear bomb explosive. But they can explode with rather frightening force.


----------



## Odyn

So, is japan safe to travel to?


----------



## Lazloisdavrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Odyn;13597683*
> So, is japan safe to travel to?


yes


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Hmm. TEPCO put out a rather interesting press release on the 20th:

Quote:



We deeply apologize for the anxiety and inconvenience caused to local residents near the site and broader society due to the accident at ***ushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station caused by the Tohoku-Chihou-Taiheiyou-Oki Earthquake that occurred on March 11 2011. Today, we held a Board of Directors meeting where it was decided to decommission Units 1 to 4 and abolish plans to build Units 7 and 8 at ***ushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station.

***ushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station was severely damaged due to the Tohoku-Chihou-Taiheiyou-Oki Earthquake and the tsunami that followed after. In particular, the melting of the fuel pellets inside Units 1 to 4 caused them significant damage. This was followed by a series of explosions. Hence, the decision to decommission them was made. Furthermore, in consideration of the societal impact, we believe that it would be very difficult to gain acceptance from local residents with regards to building additional Units 7 and 8 and therefore, decided to abolish their construction plans.


----------



## KingCuddles

Sweet little app i have found here - could be useful for anyone in Japan

CBRN Survival Guide


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hephasteus;13597312*
> It pulsed 13 times during the meltdown. Any one of those pulses had you been in it you would have died within hours. Nuclear powerplant fuel doesn't do that.
> 
> "Sure, there's uncontrolled nuclear fissions reactions. I'm not arguing that that happens. What I AM arguing against is the people who say that it could explode. No, it cannot. Power-grade uranium cannot explode. It's just impossible, because it's not enriched enough to have a quick enough and large enough chain reaction to cause an explosion. "
> 
> As soon as that thing pulsed on meltdown it set off everybody's satelites that are sensor packed for nuclear detection which is why they admitted it. Power grade uranium can explode. It is balanced for excess neutrons which are sucked up by the nickle control rods. You remove the control rods and it starts an explosion. It's a very very slow explosion and the core simply melts down before it reaches an explosion but some of the fuel will go off. If it's only a few atoms and results in 10 lb of tnt explosion then that's the end of the explosion. ALL the fuel won't explode because there's not enough excess neutrons to do it. 13 neutron pulses were created one of them hit other fuel and caused a small explosion relative to a nuclear bomb. It was rather large as these buildings are not cracker boxes. They are thick they are rough they are tough and it blew one of them to nearly shreds and put massive I beams in the fuel pool.
> 
> So you're sort of right. No a powerplant can't go full nuclear bomb explosive. But they can explode with rather frightening force.












The explosions that did physical damage to the plants were from hydrogen buildup, NOT from the nuclear material itself!

Again, I am not arguing that there are not small nuclear fission events happening, but it will never happen in a large enough sequence with power-grade fuel to cause any sort of large explosion or significant damage.


----------



## Ghoxt

Reuters just reported Japan has just now confirmed 2 of the other suspected Reactors have gone Full Meltdown. They said this likely happened early on and they allude to them keeping it quiet to avoid additional panic in Tokyo in the early days of the disaster.

Idiots, everyone knew all 3 suspect Reactors were going to Meltdown.

Overall what a disaster.


----------



## Hephasteus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;13609154*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The explosions that did physical damage to the plants were from hydrogen buildup, NOT from the nuclear material itself!
> 
> Again, I am not arguing that there are not small nuclear fission events happening, but it will never happen in a large enough sequence with power-grade fuel to cause any sort of large explosion or significant damage.


LOL No. Yes you can have hydrogen build up but it was a nuclear explosion.
Right now they are fighting the core melt down with boron. It's not going too well. The thing just jumped up from 45ish seiverts to 200 plus. Boron should stop soaking up the excess neutrons before too much longer and it should melt down to water table and go critical scattering some 3 or so tons of gaseous plutonium and uranium all over. You just don't get it. Plutonium isn't uranium it's a built up uranium on steroids and it's got so many excess neutrons it just doesn't know what to do with em.

This isn't a hydrogen explosion.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsJT88jX2SA&feature=related[/ame]


----------



## aweir

This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by ***ushima Central Television.

Interesting that the news can be copyrighted!!


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hephasteus*


LOL No. Yes you can have hydrogen build up but it was a nuclear explosion.
Right now they are fighting the core melt down with boron. It's not going too well. The thing just jumped up from 45ish seiverts to 200 plus. Boron should stop soaking up the excess neutrons before too much longer and it should melt down to water table and go critical scattering some 3 or so tons of gaseous plutonium and uranium all over. You just don't get it. Plutonium isn't uranium it's a built up uranium on steroids and it's got so many excess neutrons it just doesn't know what to do with em.

This isn't a hydrogen explosion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsJT8...eature=related


It's not, huh? And what is your source? Where are you getting the information that ALL of the news sources are lying? Not only that, how did such an explosion happen without rupturing the containment vessel, where the nuclear material is stored?


----------



## Hawk777th

Bummer!
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-19/***ushima-may-have-leaked-radiation-before-quake.html

Sorry if old news!


----------



## Semyon

all 3 reactors confirmed to have melted down "early in the crisis"


----------



## TwistedMind

Honshu, Japan. 4.6 Earthquake.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquak...usc0003rgl.php


----------



## aweir

First and earthquake, then a tsunami, and now a typhoon. Like what next, a volcanic eruption?

Quote:



Three of six reactor buildings have no roof after explosions blew them off



Quote:



We are still considering typhoon measures and can't announce detailed plans yet


----------



## Imports>Muscles

I totally forgot about Japan. What is the status right now?


----------



## Licht

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


First and earthquake, then a tsunami, and now a typhoon. Like what next, a volcanic eruption?


God gets tired of waiting and just smites the whole island. Only way it could get any worse.


----------



## aweir

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Imports>Muscles*


I totally forgot about Japan. What is the status right now?


Well for starters a fire erupted in the basement of reactor 1. 
The fire started in the basement of an annexe to Reactor No. 1
The fire broke out on a power distribution board for lights
"There are no reports on injuries or any leakage of radiation because of the fire"
After extinguishing the fire, they are investigating how it started

and a super typhoon. http://enenews.com/us-navy-forecast-...phoon-measures


----------



## Lampen

3 nuclear reactors melted down after quake, Japan confirms - CNN

Japan's ***ushima Daiichi nuclear power plant experienced full meltdowns at three reactors in the wake of an earthquake and tsunami in March, the country's Nuclear Emergency Response Headquarters said Monday.

The nuclear group's new evaluation, released Monday, goes further than previous statements in describing the extent of the damage caused by an earthquake and tsunami on March 11.

The announcement will not change plans for how to stabilize the ***ushima Daiichi plant, the agency said.

Reactors 1, 2 and 3 experienced a full meltdown, it said.

Full Story - http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/06/06/japan.nuclear.meltdown/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=Google+International


----------



## Blue Destroyer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;13774479*
> 3 nuclear reactors melted down after quake, Japan confirms - CNN
> 
> Japan's ***ushima Daiichi nuclear power plant experienced full meltdowns at three reactors in the wake of an earthquake and tsunami in March, the country's Nuclear Emergency Response Headquarters said Monday.
> 
> The nuclear group's new evaluation, released Monday, goes further than previous statements in describing the extent of the damage caused by an earthquake and tsunami on March 11.
> 
> The announcement will not change plans for how to stabilize the ***ushima Daiichi plant, the agency said.
> 
> Reactors 1, 2 and 3 experienced a full meltdown, it said.
> 
> Full Story - http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/06/06/japan.nuclear.meltdown/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=Google+International


Just confirming what we "fear mongers"(what you all called us when we said they had in the beginning) have said since the first week.


----------



## zomgiwin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blue Destroyer;13776158*
> Just confirming what we "fear mongers"(what you all called us when we said they had in the beginning) have said since the first week.


because you "fear mongers" were spouting baseless things as facts.

until now, we had no way of knowing now did we? how did you supposedly "know"? hm?

exactly.

i'm someone who never said either way, because i had no idea, like the rest of you.


----------



## A-E-I-Owned-You

The warning signs were similar to that of other incidents of this level. Lots if info out there.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blue Destroyer*


Just confirming what we "fear mongers"(what you all called us when we said they had in the beginning) have said since the first week.


Well considering most of the "fear mongers" were saying that we had another Chernobyl on our hands and that radiation was going to kill everyone on the west coast...









Speculation is all well and good, but when you just scream Chernobyl with nothing to back it up it really doesn't contribute anything.

_*OP Updated*_


----------



## finalturismo

3 nuclear reactors melted down after quake, Japan confirms
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/06/06/japan.nuclear.meltdown/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

for all the people out there that believed the main stream news and didn't want to admit this, here you go.

"no , your a fear monger they didnt meltdown."

They are still smoking to this day....

U.S. Has yet to release official radiation numbers from the drones, and we have radiation flying around the plant and background radiation is set to double or triple because of this.

100s of times safe levels found in us milk, and the epa raises safe radiation levels. But i bet most of you weren't aware of any of this huh?

But hey, its no big deal.

The new age , gota love em.

I SHOULD PULL UP CLIPS FROM YOUTUBE, ON THE MAIN STREAM PROPAGANDA.

"no word of offical meltdown"
"appears situation is under control"
"1 may have melted down"
"prevented reactor from melting down"

than the war in Libya started and this disappeared from the news.

Maybe this will help people understand how the real world works and they will stop being so dang gullible.

But than again, maybe no one cares about this new article and they dont understand how huge this announcement is. Anyway its the past its all forgotten now, just like everything else.
The wars , broken econ, etc.....

I can play you video clips of Obama saying we were only gonna be in Libya for 2 weeks, and a "no fly zone"

Guess what, we are gonna be over there all the way into next year.
Good job guys, good job.

Morons.....

Just had to rant a lil guys, dont take it personal.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *finalturismo*


3 nuclear reactors melted down after quake, Japan confirms
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...html?hpt=hp_t2

for all the people out there that believed the main stream news and didn't want to admit this, here you go.

"no , your a fear monger they didnt meltdown."

They are still smoking to this day....

U.S. Has yet to release official radiation numbers from the drones, and we have radiation flying around the plant and background radiation is set to double or triple because of this.

100s of times safe levels found in us milk, and the epa raises safe radiation levels. But i bet most of you weren't aware of any of this huh?

But hey, its no big deal.

The new age , gota love em.

I SHOULD PULL UP CLIPS FROM YOUTUBE, ON THE MAIN STREAM PROPAGANDA.

"no word of offical meltdown"
"appears situation is under control"
"1 may have melted down"
"prevented reactor from melting down"

than the war in Libya started and this disappeared from the news.

Maybe this will help people understand how the real world works and they will stop being so dang gullible.

But than again, maybe no one cares about this new article and they dont understand how huge this announcement is. Anyway its the past its all forgotten now, just like everything else. 
The wars , broken econ, etc.....

I can play you video clips of Obama saying we were only gonna be in Libya for 2 weeks, and a "no fly zone"

Guess what, we are gonna be over there all the way into next year. 
Good job guys, good job.

Morons.....


Turismo good to see your back spouting your special brand of crazy and you know everything we don't and we're all idiots. If you're going to claim something like this:

Quote:



"100s of times safe levels found in us milk, and the epa raises safe radiation levels. But i bet most of you weren't aware of any of this huh?"


please provide a source rather than just spam something you found on an conspiracy website that's only source is its own tinfoil-hat-wearing writers/bloggers.

And there's a reason you don't go over an make specious claims like full-blown meltdown, a New Chernobyl, and etc. You check your facts and confirm what information's been released and whether it's reliable. Furthermore you can speculate whether something's happened or not but if someone who was screaming "MELTDOWN MELTDOWN MELTDOWN" and it turned out they were wrong you never hear them say "My bad I was wrong and sewing panic." You do however never hear the end of their self-satisfied pride in wildly speculating that there was indeed a meltdown.


----------



## WorldExclusive

Quote:



Originally Posted by *finalturismo*


3 nuclear reactors melted down after quake, Japan confirms
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...html?hpt=hp_t2

for all the people out there that believed the main stream news and didn't want to admit this, here you go.


Of course we weren't getting the truth, when do we? Also, if the Government told the people the truth about what's going on in the world, do you think people will still be calm about life, or stressed out hiding in fear?

Do the public need to know the real risks of what we face? Yes.
But most people can't handle the truth, flying off the deep end, taking millions of people with them.
Try to contain 300 million fearful Americans. Perception of fear is greater than the reality of it.


----------



## xd_1771

I'm pretty sure at least some of those reactors that did experience meltdown contained a radioactive element other than iodine 131.... I'm pretty sure one was an isotope of plutonium, which is more dangerous and has significantly more half-time. It's been awhile since I've heard of this, so excuse me if my memory's fuzzy. This means that the west coast of NA may have already been affected by radiation, or is the worst yet to come?


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


I'm pretty sure at least some of those reactors that did experience meltdown contained a radioactive element other than iodine 131.... I'm pretty sure one was plutonium, which is more dangerous and has significantly more half-time. The west coast of NA may have already been affected by radiation, or is the worst yet to come?


Cesium-137 is the other isotope. It has a half-life of roughly 30 years and will be the principal source of radiation and contamination around the ***ushima reactor for the foreseeable future. However, you need to look at the total amount of nuclear materials released into the atmosphere and surrounding area. For the ***ushima Daiichi complex they have revised the amount released up to 850,000 terabecquerels. Compared that to the Chernobyl disaster which released 5.2 million terabecquerels. It's still a massive amount of materials released into the environment but it's 1/6 the scale of Chernobyl.

Oh and yes the small amounts of radiation that the US saw several months ago is pretty much all we're every going to see from it.


----------



## finalturismo

heh....

sorry i dont watch cnn and come to these forums to bash on people i dont agree with. i show emotion because iam a lil more educated in the matter. I hope these sources are good enough for you......

Sources on radiation in us milk
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42348512/ns/health-health_care/t/low-levels-radiation-found-us-milk/
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703806304576233221749626458.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-30/u-s-epa-finds-some-radiation-in-milk-will-step-up-monitoring-nationwide.html
http://www.statesman.com/news/nation/nation-digest-small-amount-of-radiation-found-in-1353795.html

Radiation in rainwater
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/27/radiation-rain-water-massachusetts-radioactive_n_841188.html

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4595729/california-scientists-test-rainwater-for-radiation-/

I could really post non stop , 1000s of news articles.

Its very simple

Go to google.com
and click on the news tab


----------



## Ironcobra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;13780999*
> Turismo good to see your back spouting your special brand of crazy and you know everything we don't and we're all idiots. If you're going to claim something like this:
> 
> please provide a source rather than just spam something you found on an conspiracy website that's only source is its own tinfoil-hat-wearing writers/bloggers.
> 
> And there's a reason you don't go over an make specious claims like full-blown meltdown, a New Chernobyl, and etc. You check your facts and confirm what information's been released and whether it's reliable. Furthermore you can speculate whether something's happened or not but if someone who was screaming "MELTDOWN MELTDOWN MELTDOWN" and it turned out they were wrong you never hear them say "My bad I was wrong and sewing panic." You do however never hear the end of their self-satisfied pride in wildly speculating that there was indeed a meltdown.


Nice generalize people who care about the truth in this crazy world as tin foil hat wearers:thinking: Skeptics who think we live in a Disney world where govt and media dont lie and care about the regular people are the reason we are in such sad state right now. why do u types always ask for a reliable source? what is this nowadays? ...are these the sources u want proven liars like bbc cnn fox msnbc skynews dailymail etc? u know thats who u think is a reliable source admit it I mean this is not a forum of stupid people use some common sense step back and look whats happened around the world in the last few years. Im sure u believe were peacekeepin in Lybia, Iraq, and Afganistan and that the oil magically disappeared from the gulf like stated everyday in the MSM Im sure they report radiation is magically gone in a few weeks its becoming so predictable

Back on topic which reactor had the mox fuel in it? What is the implication regarding this?


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *finalturismo*


heh....

sorry i dont watch cnn and coming to these forums to bash on people i dont agree with. i show emotion because iam a lil more educated in the matter. I hope these sources are good enough for you......

Sources on radiation in us milk
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42348512...found-us-milk/
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...749626458.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...ationwide.html
http://www.statesman.com/news/nation...n-1353795.html

Radiation in rainwater
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_841188.html

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4595729/c...or-radiation-/

I could really post non stop , 1000s of news articles.

Its very simple

Go to google.com
and click on the news tab

Its like telling someone there is a white wall in front of them, and they insist its black not white.

Some things just arnt for everyone to know, i learned that in the army.


As I've said in this thread several times: "If you're going to claim something back it up with reputable sources."

And I say that because too many people will take everything in the thread at face value and WILL NOT go to try find other sources to verify it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ironcobra*


Nice generalize people who care about the truth in this crazy world as tin foil hat wearers







Skeptics who think we live in a Disney world where govt and media dont lie and care about the regular people are the reason we are in such sad state right now. why do u types always ask for a reliable source? what is this nowadays? ...are these the sources u want proven liars like bbc cnn fox msnbc skynews dailymail etc? u know thats who u think is a reliable source admit it I mean this is not a forum of stupid people use some common sense step back and look whats happened around the world in the last few years. Im sure u believe were peacekeepin in Lybia, Iraq, and Afganistan and that the oil magically disappeared from the gulf like stated everyday in the MSM







Im sure they report radiation is magically gone in a few weeks its becoming so predictable

Back on topic which reactor had the mox fuel in it? What is the implication regarding this?


I generalize only about one person in this case because turismo's gone out to left field way too many times in several threads without backing up his claims. I've had to fight back against fear mongers and people spreading disinformation in this thread since the first day when someone had the great idea of posting up a radiation dispersal map that indicated everyone on the west coast was going to die.









Oh and while there are many intelligent people in this forums there are several who quite frankly are prone to panic, like pretty much all people, with subjects they don't understand. Go browse the first couple days of posts in this thread and read what some people have asked/said. The posts in regard to that radiation dispersal map are proof enough.

Reputable is official numerous sources, subject matter experts and analysts, etc. Basically if its valid information you'll quickly find it works it's way through most major news outlets and agencies. If the information can't be verified it doesn't really have any value. Speculation can be useful in regard to planning and general discussion but at the end of the day it doesn't really add anything to your understanding of an incident such as this.

And Reactor #2 was the MOX reactor.


----------



## cdoublejj

Wow lots of big posts since i left. a few question we went over the "coffins" but now that there were full melt downs how do they clean up and precede to start making coffins in such a contaminated area? whats the half life of the materials and radiation surround the plant?


----------



## Ironcobra

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*


Wow lots of big posts since i left. a few question we went over the "coffins" but now that there were full melt downs how do they clean up and precede to start making coffins in such a contaminated area? whats the half life of the materials and radiation surround the plant?


Good questions. Also how close is the water table under these reactors, i fear the worst brunt of it will be released into the oceans which is not good, there are already sharks washing up on the west coast of NA with internal bleeding.


----------



## finalturismo

(news is my hobby, i research news and sources more than i visit OCN or play starcraft 2)
Its an addiction, some people do cars, some do computers. 
Mine is information and fact checking.

When i wake up, i check drudge,CNN , nyt, wsj, AP, Reuters,Huntington post etc.. You probably dont even know what some of those are though. I study history non stop, and when you do this 24/7 you tend to get a specific mind set and your not that gullible anymore. But if your the avg person, you would probably disagree harshly , i know i used to be that person.

You know what you need to read, go google a book called eco science. 
by Paul R. Ehrlich, Anne H. Ehrlich, John P. Holdren
In the book, john p holdren calls for sterilization, by contaminating the water.
If you dont know who he is, hes in the white house now. 
But thats a conspiracy. 
Just like that white wall is black. 
http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CEoQ8wIwAA

I would stay and argue back and forth with you like a moron, but i would rather get some sleep.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*


Wow lots of big posts since i left. a few question we went over the "coffins" but now that there were full melt downs how do they clean up and precede to start making coffins in such a contaminated area? whats the half life of the materials and radiation surround the plant?


The two isotopes you'll find around the contaminated area Iodine-131 which has a very short half-life of 8 days and Cesium-137 which has a half-life of 30 years. They are both dangerous in their own right for different reasons. Iodine can be readily absorbed into the body and children are typically more vulnerable to adults over the long-term. However because it decays so quickly it's not much of a concern. Cesium which is the real concern due to it's lengthy half-life and properties. It's highly toxic and you only need about 40-50 μg/kg for a lethal dose. Also it's water soluble so if it works it's way into the water supply you've got a whole new disaster to deal with.

In regard to the coffins and future containment it's something they are not too sure of yet. The reactor vessels were not significantly breached and the vast majority of the reactor fuel might still be contained within them making cleanup much easier. We'll have to wait and see what happens to see if they are going to create a Zone of Alienation like Ukraine did, but it's unlikely at this point due to the amount of materials released and the information available to use about the integrity of the vessels.


----------



## Ironcobra

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lampen*


I generalize only about one person in this case because turismo's gone out to left field way too many times in several threads without backing up his claims. I've had to fight back against fear mongers and people spreading disinformation in this thread since the first day when someone had the great idea of posting up a radiation dispersal map that indicated everyone on the west coast was going to die.

Oh and while there are many intelligent people in this forums there are several who quite frankly are prone to panic, like pretty much all people, with subjects they don't understand. Go browse the first couple days of posts in this thread and read what some people have asked/said. The posts in regard to that radiation dispersal map are proof enough.

Reputable is official numerous sources, subject matter experts and analysts, etc. Basically if its valid information you'll quickly find it works it's way through most major news outlets and agencies. If the information can't be verified it doesn't really have any value. Speculation can be useful in regard to planning and general discussion but at the end of the day it doesn't really add anything to your understanding of an incident such as this..


I def took a look in to his history and he was right about internet caps, right about the reactors, and he definitely never said everyone on the west coast was going to die, he raised valid questions about our food and air quality and backed it up with "sources", and u really need to do some homework on gmo foods especially with reports this week claiming scientists are linking gmo to the bee deaths http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=8436
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...912&context=va
these are two out of a thousand problems/articles about gmo, i just see someone attacking a person, where are your sources for discrediting him/her? that would be a better way of debating him im sure


----------



## crust_cheese

Heard in the news yesterday that radiation had reached up to 4000 mSv/h in certain areas - if true, that's very, _very_ bad. That kind of radiation will cook you dead in two to three hours *at most*.

Apparently, the highest radiation ever reached there is 204 Sv/h... (no, I did not forget a milli prefix)


----------



## cdoublejj

When i was in school in science class we watched a movie based on a true story about nuclear powered submarine that had it's core melt down. Some of the guy on board tried to weld some of the casing and cooling pipes, one puked out his own lung. it ended with one or two or even three dudes dieing and the sub was sunken and left rot. I was told it had a half life of SEVERAL HUNDRED YEARS? so is that how long it will stay? thats also why I don't thin Chernobyl is ready. I am so off/wrong that.. face palm?


----------



## crust_cheese

A half life of, say, one year would mean that half the matter would have radiated away after a year. That is, 
(Note that the products of this can also be dangerous)

For example, Uranium-238 has a half life of about 4.5 billion years.
A slab of 10 kg of U-238 would, after 4.5 billion years, only weigh 5 kg, whilst the rest would've decayed to Thorium-234 and alpha particles (helium ions).


----------



## Semyon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*


When i was in school in science class we watched a movie based on a true story about nuclear powered submarine that had it's core melt down. Some of the guy on board tried to weld some of the casing and cooling pipes, one puked out his own lung. it ended with one or two or even three dudes dieing and the sub was sunken and left rot. I was told it had a half life of SEVERAL HUNDRED YEARS? so is that how long it will stay? thats also why I don't thin Chernobyl is ready. I am so off/wrong that.. face palm?


Yes, that was K-19: The Widowmaker. Very emotional film. @Chernobyl, AFAIK they are planning to build another shell around it, excavate the dangerous insides and dispose of it more safely. The surrounding radiation really isn't bad though; there are now tourism trips through Pripyat IIRC.


----------



## crust_cheese

Yes, they are planning to build another shell because the building might collapse and spew up lots of radioactive dust. That would be bad.


----------



## Lampen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Semyon*


Yes, that was K-19: The Widowmaker. Very emotional film. @Chernobyl, AFAIK they are planning to build another shell around it, excavate the dangerous insides and dispose of it more safely. The surrounding radiation really isn't bad though; there are now tourism trips through Pripyat IIRC.


Yep the new shell is expected to be complete and in place by 2014-2015. As for the Zone of Alienation it is open for tourism now. It costs about 160 USD for an official tour with one of the tour agencies that are allowed to conduct the trips. The background radiation really isn't bad at all. You get more on a transcontinental flight then you do during a couple days in the Zone. However you need to be careful to not kick up dust/dirt and should avoid vegetation inside the Zone because of the high concentrations of Cesium still on the site. I'll be going there sometime this August! Have to get there before the new shell is in place and that iconic image of Reactor 4 is gone.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *finalturismo;13780917*
> 3 nuclear reactors melted down after quake, Japan confirms
> http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/06/06/japan.nuclear.meltdown/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
> 
> for all the people out there that believed the main stream news and didn't want to admit this, here you go.
> 
> "no , your a fear monger they didnt meltdown."
> 
> They are still smoking to this day....
> 
> U.S. Has yet to release official radiation numbers from the drones, and we have radiation flying around the plant and background radiation is set to double or triple because of this.
> 
> 100s of times safe levels found in us milk, and the epa raises safe radiation levels. But i bet most of you weren't aware of any of this huh?
> 
> But hey, its no big deal.
> 
> The new age , gota love em.
> 
> I SHOULD PULL UP CLIPS FROM YOUTUBE, ON THE MAIN STREAM PROPAGANDA.
> 
> "no word of offical meltdown"
> "appears situation is under control"
> "1 may have melted down"
> "prevented reactor from melting down"
> 
> than the war in Libya started and this disappeared from the news.
> 
> Maybe this will help people understand how the real world works and they will stop being so dang gullible.
> 
> But than again, maybe no one cares about this new article and they dont understand how huge this announcement is. Anyway its the past its all forgotten now, just like everything else.
> The wars , broken econ, etc.....
> 
> I can play you video clips of Obama saying we were only gonna be in Libya for 2 weeks, and a "no fly zone"
> 
> Guess what, we are gonna be over there all the way into next year.
> Good job guys, good job.
> 
> Morons.....
> 
> Just had to rant a lil guys, dont take it personal.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *finalturismo;13781212*
> heh....
> 
> sorry i dont watch cnn and come to these forums to bash on people i dont agree with. i show emotion because iam a lil more educated in the matter. I hope these sources are good enough for you......
> 
> Sources on radiation in us milk
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42348512/ns/health-health_care/t/low-levels-radiation-found-us-milk/
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703806304576233221749626458.html
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-30/u-s-epa-finds-some-radiation-in-milk-will-step-up-monitoring-nationwide.html
> http://www.statesman.com/news/nation/nation-digest-small-amount-of-radiation-found-in-1353795.html
> 
> Radiation in rainwater
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/27/radiation-rain-water-massachusetts-radioactive_n_841188.html
> 
> http://video.foxnews.com/v/4595729/california-scientists-test-rainwater-for-radiation-/
> 
> I could really post non stop , 1000s of news articles.
> 
> Its very simple
> 
> Go to google.com
> and click on the news tab


None of those sources regarding the milk says anything about it being 100's of times more than the safe level, which you claimed. Give a source that backs up your claim that the EPA raised the "safe level" of radiation, and that the radiation in milk is 100's of times the previous safe level.


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crust_cheese;13782007*
> Yes, they are planning to build another shell because the building might collapse and spew up lots of radioactive dust. That would be bad.


It's crumbling and if it continues to crumble there would be a higher chance of the so called 'Second Explosion'. They haven't even begun building the other shell. The Sarcophagus was designed to Last for 20-30 Years as a Temporary measure. However they haven't replaced the Sacrophagus and it is rapidly crumbling not only from rust but from the weakining structure due to rain and various weather elements.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;13782296*
> Yep the new shell is expected to be complete and in place by 2014-2015. As for the Zone of Alienation it is open for tourism now. It costs about 160 USD for an official tour with one of the tour agencies that are allowed to conduct the trips. The background radiation really isn't bad at all. You get more on a transcontinental flight then you do during a couple days in the Zone. However you need to be careful to not kick up dust/dirt and should avoid vegetation inside the Zone because of the high concentrations of Cesium still on the site. I'll be going there sometime this August! Have to get there before the new shell is in place and that iconic image of Reactor 4 is gone.


Not with the way the current events are happening. The new Shell won't be in place anytime soon. There are constant Red Tape and delays associated with the Shell. The Sarcophagus will crumble by the time they put in place the new shell. Oh and for the prices I can honestly say that you are being horribly ripped off. They put special Tourist prices like those for you. The real prices aren't even close to that.

I was actually planning to visit The Zone of Alienation especially the KPP Dityaki however I've had to delay and post-pone these plans several times.


----------



## Dromihetes

I always considered Japan the most advanced country in the world tek wise.
Still can t understand how the plant failed when they knew that a huge wave of water is coming.
They know that after an earthquake a tsunami comes so why was the plant still on ?!
Chernobil is something else ,they have vodka in the area.


----------



## The Architect

You cant just hit an off switch. A nuclear plant would probably take like 3-6 hours to fully shut down, not to mention the plant was damaged in the quake.


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Architect;13788605*
> You cant just hit an off switch. A nuclear plant would probably take like 3-6 hours to fully shut down, not to mention the plant was damaged in the quake.


We will never know if the plant failed due to the earthquake or because some people working there ignored the tsunami danger all together.Maybe it survived perfectly well to the earthquake ,it was build to take such.


----------



## Skripka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Architect;13788605*
> You cant just hit an off switch. A nuclear plant would probably take like 3-6 hours to fully shut down, not to mention the plant was damaged in the quake.


It actually takes days to cool off and shutdown, with coolant still being circulated by the pumps. Sure you can kill fission fairly quickly, but the reactor core still puts off lots of decay heat that needs sinked to prevent boil off of the coolant and the resulting core damage.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes;13788725*
> We will never know if the plant failed due to the earthquake or because some people working there ignored the tsunami danger all together.Maybe it survived perfectly well to the earthquake ,it was build to take such.


Huh? Sure we know. The tsunami cut the emergency diesel generators that are used to power the pumps when no other power source is available. With no power, the heat from the cores (whether shut down or not) boiled off the coolant and melted the fuel loads.


----------



## Hyoketsu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dromihetes*


Maybe it survived perfectly well to the earthquake ,it was build to take such.


Nope, it was built to withstand a 7.x, can't remember the precise number, though. Was it, perhaps, 7.8? The number seems familiar, but I'm not sure. Someone correct me on this, please. Anyway, the main quake was, as you know, 9.0. Furthermore, the scale isn't linear, so the actual difference is huge. A 7.0, for example, would be approximately equal to 480 kilotons of TNT explosive force. A 9.0, on the other hand, equals 480 MEGAtons.
Whoops. A difference of a thousandfold. Didn't expect that, huh?


----------



## Semyon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes;13788551*
> I always considered Japan the most advanced country in the world tek wise.
> Still can t understand how the plant failed when they knew that a huge wave of water is coming.
> They know that after an earthquake a tsunami comes so why was the plant still on ?!
> Chernobil is something else ,they have vodka in the area.


Sigh, the reactor automatically "shut down" when the earthquake was shut down. The problem that caused the crisis here was that the tsunami was higher than the wall they had in place for tsunamis. The tsunami then flooded the cooling systems, causing the reactors to overheat.


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Semyon;13793811*
> Sigh, the reactor automatically "shut down" when the earthquake was shut down. The problem that caused the crisis here was that the tsunami was higher than the wall they had in place for tsunamis. The tsunami then flooded the cooling systems, causing the reactors to overheat.


So you are saying that cooling is used even when the plant is off ?!
Sounds strange to me.
If the plant needed cooling (cooling system that brake due to flood ) it means that the plant was on.Or maybe i m wrong.
I always considered Japan to be the country where everything is perfectly set up.


----------



## black06g85

um when you shut a reactor down it doesnt' go off like a light switch, as stateed several times in this thread it will take days for it to"cool" down. Which is why the coolant needs to be constantly circulated.
also in some photos of the area I've seen it looks like some of the large coolant pipes are missing, probably washed out by the wave.
But I still don't understand why you would put emergency back up generators below sea level in an area prone to tsunami's. Doesn't really make sense


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black06g85;13795222*
> But I still don't understand why you would put emergency back up generators below sea level in an area prone to tsunami's. Doesn't really make sense


I agree ,this was like waiting for it to happen.
You may be right regarding the cooling process as well.

It happened and people should learn something from it.
Anyway you can t play with nature , neither control it , nature always wins.


----------



## Semyon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes;13795179*
> So you are saying that cooling is used even when the plant is off ?!
> Sounds strange to me.
> If the plant needed cooling (cooling system that brake due to flood ) it means that the plant was on.Or maybe i m wrong.
> I always considered Japan to be the country where everything is perfectly set up.


The control rods that "stop" the reaction stop the neutrons released from each uranium atom from hitting other uranium atoms. However, the already-fissioned uranium atoms produce many other radioactive atoms which decay on their own and release enormous amounts of heat (5% of no-control rods IIRC) for days, weeks etc. These products must be cooled, or the unchecked heat will melt the entire assembly. Unfortunately, fuel rods were left completely exposed to air, without any cooling at all, and that is exactly what has happened in three reactors. This is a complete meltdown.


----------



## crust_cheese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes;13795179*
> So you are saying that cooling is used even when the plant is off ?!
> Sounds strange to me.
> If the plant needed cooling (cooling system that brake due to flood ) it means that the plant was on.Or maybe i m wrong.
> I always considered Japan to be the country where everything is perfectly set up.


If you keep your stove on for hours and then turn it off, is it not hot for some time _after_ you turned it off?

You can't turn off a nuclear plant "just like that". It needs continuous cooling or stuff _will go terribly wrong._
The ***ushima reactor's cooling was cut off, and so, stuff did indeed _go terribly wrong._


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Semyon;13795245*
> The control rods that "stop" the reaction stop the neutrons released from each uranium atom from hitting other uranium atoms. However, the already-fissioned uranium atoms produce many other radioactive atoms which decay on their own and release enormous amounts of heat (5% of no-control rods IIRC) for days, weeks etc. These products must be cooled, or the unchecked heat will melt the entire assembly. Unfortunately, fuel rods were left completely exposed to air, without any cooling at all, and that is exactly what has happened in three reactors. This is a complete meltdown.


Thank you for the complete expose








You have a 10 (or A+) for today !


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;13782296*
> Yep the new shell is expected to be complete and in place by 2014-2015. As for the Zone of Alienation it is open for tourism now. It costs about 160 USD for an official tour with one of the tour agencies that are allowed to conduct the trips. The background radiation really isn't bad at all. You get more on a transcontinental flight then you do during a couple days in the Zone. However you need to be careful to not kick up dust/dirt and should avoid vegetation inside the Zone because of the high concentrations of Cesium still on the site. I'll be going there sometime this August! Have to get there before the new shell is in place and that iconic image of Reactor 4 is gone.


yeah i saw some articles on it and about the tours just didn't understand the radiation levels. Take many pictures good sir. Wish I could go.


----------



## Asce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black06g85;13795222*
> But I still don't understand why you would put emergency back up generators below sea level in an area prone to tsunami's. Doesn't really make sense


You do know that the tsunami wall dropped nearly 2m in height during the quake. If it hadnt dropped in hieght it may have stopped the tsunami altogether


----------



## aweir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lampen;13782296*
> Yep the new shell is expected to be complete and in place by 2014-2015. As for the Zone of Alienation it is open for tourism now. It costs about 160 USD for an official tour with one of the tour agencies that are allowed to conduct the trips. The background radiation really isn't bad at all. You get more on a transcontinental flight then you do during a couple days in the Zone. However you need to be careful to not kick up dust/dirt and should avoid vegetation inside the Zone because of the high concentrations of Cesium still on the site. I'll be going there sometime this August! Have to get there before the new shell is in place and that iconic image of Reactor 4 is gone.


"You'll be fine, just don't drink the water. Here, have a complimentary oxygen mask."


----------



## cdoublejj

Nuclear fuel has melted through base of ***ushima plant

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/8565020/Nuclear-fuel-has-melted-through-base-of-***ushima-plant.html


----------



## Mr. Original

Any new news??


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr. Original;13855961*
> Any new news??


Not a whole lot. There was a recent report about the high levels of Strontium-89 and Strontium-90 being detected in the water supply near the plants.

Full story:
Quote:


> *Excessive levels of highly toxic strontium have been detected in seawater and groundwater at Japan's ***ushima Daiichi nuclear complex, the plant operator said Monday, a development that suggests an increased risk of radioactive contamination further entering the food chain.*
> 
> Also underscoring the difficulties of trying to stabilize the stricken facility, operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. said six more workers have received more than the permitted annual emergency levels of radiation exposure.
> 
> The Strontium-89 and Strontium-90 isotopes are believed to have been released from the damaged reactors when the fuel cores overheated and melted after the March 11 earthquake and tsunami, Tokyo Electric, also known Tepco, said at a briefing. In all, the amount of contaminated water now flooding the basements and the connected trenches of the plant's reactor buildings is estimated at more than 100,000 tons.
> 
> *Environmental experts said the discovery of the strontium heightens the risk of contaminated seafood in the area, now complicated by the arrival of seasonally heavy rains.*
> 
> "With the arrival of the rainy season, more and more radioactive fallout is being washed into groundwater and the sea, raising the levels of strontium contamination," said Ikuro Anzai, professor emeritus at Ritsumeikan University.
> 
> *Strontium acts like calcium and accumulates in bones. Unlike other radioactive materials, such as cesium and iodine, strontium doesn't emit powerful gamma rays, and therefore, its harmful effects are limited unless it is ingested or inhaled. But once inside the body, it can cause bone cancer or leukemia.*
> 
> "Japanese people often eat small fish, such as sardines, whole, including the bones and head. There is therefore a risk of consumers taking in strontium from contaminated small fish," Prof. Anzai said.
> 
> The government already has undertaken a program of testing of seafood in the nearby area and didn't announce any additional measures because of the latest disclosure. Prof. Anzai said there should be close monitoring for potential contamination because there is a risk of the radiation spreading through the food chain.
> 
> The six workers were found to have been exposed to more than the annual limit of 250 millisieverts now set for an emergency situation, during continuing check-ups on an estimated 3,700 staff who have worked at the plant during the crisis. Tepco said the six are likely to have been exposed to radiation from 265 to 498 millisieverts, according to preliminary results.
> 
> Two male workers were previously confirmed to have exceeded the annual limit, according to Tepco, while two women workers were found to have exceeded the limit of 5 millisieverts set for females in any three-month period. The discoveries come from the testing of all workers at the site. Of the staff, 2,400 have so far gone through check-ups for internal radiation.
> 
> Tepco continues to struggle with ways to reduce the amount of radiation at the site. It announced separately on Monday that it now expects a newly developed system for treating highly radioactive water to start full operation by the end of this week, to filter the rising amount of radioactive water produced by the continuous cooling of the reactor cores.
> 
> The decontamination system was originally scheduled to start operating Wednesday and delays add to concerns that the plant will run out of storage space for the contaminated water.
> 
> The system is made up mainly of zeolite-containing cartridges, developed by Kurion Inc. of the U.S., to absorb radioactive cesium and iodine, and of equipment built by French energy company Areva SA to remove radioactive materials. It can treat up to 1,200 metric tons of water daily.
> 
> After the water is decontaminated, it will be either used as coolant for the reactors or released into the ocean, according to Tepco.
> 
> Tepco said a separate device, set up near the coastline, started operating Monday to remove radioactive materials from seawater. Water is being pumped through the zeolite-filled device to collect cesium and other radioactive materials. But Tepco said it was not clear if it would remove strontium as well.


Source: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303714704576383434056677892.html?mod=googlenews_wsj


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj;13807773*
> Nuclear fuel has melted through base of ***ushima plant
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/8565020/Nuclear-fuel-has-melted-through-base-of-***ushima-plant.html


It hasn't melted through the based of the plant, it melted through the bottom of the pressure vessel. Completely different things.


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;13864209*
> It hasn't melted through the based of the plant, it melted through the bottom of the pressure vessel. Completely different things.


i just copy and pasted it as i saw it on reddit. Question and trust me I am a bad person for asking this but, as bad as it is would dilution help having it spread among such vast area or having it washed away help lower the contamination levels over all?


----------



## Killam0n

***ushima City to give children radiation dosimeters
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13763601


----------



## SgtSpike

***ushima: It's much worse than you think

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/06/201161664828302638.html


----------



## gammite

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;13914801*
> ***ushima: It's much worse than you think
> 
> http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/06/201161664828302638.html


thanks for this. maybe it will open some people's eyes. i am surprised that this is not getting more coverage. i guess a congressman's "member" is more important news.


----------



## Lampen

*OP Updated - 06/18/2011*

*Japan nuclear: Radiation halts water clean-up*










Operators of Japan's ***ushima nuclear plant have suspended an operation to clean contaminated water hours after it began due to a rapid rise in radiation.

Some 110,000 tonnes of water have built up during efforts to cool reactors hit by the 11 March earthquake and tsunami.

The contaminated water, enough to fill 40 Olympic-sized swimming pools, has been at risk of spilling into the sea.

The disaster caused meltdown at three of the reactors, and radiation leaks.

It was the world's worst nuclear accident since Chernobyl in Ukraine in 1986.

The powerful earthquake and the tsunami it generated are now known to have killed more than 15,280 people, while nearly 8,500 remain unaccounted for.

Full Story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13819767


----------



## aweir

Radiation in spots of Tokyo is 3.5 times the legal limit. The only solution to the problem is to raise the legal limit and have the children pet cute little happy Panda bears.


----------



## A-E-I-Owned-You

Ugh. Getting worse and worse. Maybe slowly, but where are the idiots who were riding people like me about saying it was bad? We were paranoid idiots, and now we are correct. Funny how that goes.

Good luck Japan. Dont become Japobyl. :/


----------



## Semyon

Anyone got any data on radiation in countries surrounding japan? What about the US?


----------



## the.FBI

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


Radiation in spots of Tokyo is 3.5 times the legal limit. The only solution to the problem is to raise the legal limit and have the children pet cute little happy Panda bears.


Do you know how low the legal limit is? It is incredibly low, so 3x say .0001 is only .0003 and therefore not actually a harmful amount. I swear to god I must have said this 20 times during the event, people need to stop fear mongering and learn something about radiation, yes it is bad for you but the legal limits are set so low that there is no harmful effect, 3x that level may give .001% of the population a higher risk of cancer.


----------



## charlie97

That is a lot of clicks per minute


----------



## charlie97

Every one is saying "high radiation levels" yet nobody has the info on the clicks per
Minute...


----------



## gammite

Quote:



Originally Posted by *A-E-I-Owned-You*


Ugh. Getting worse and worse. Maybe slowly, but where are the idiots who were riding people like me about saying it was bad? We were paranoid idiots, and now we are correct. Funny how that goes.

Good luck Japan. Dont become Japobyl. :/


some people like to live in the matrix. some of us don't.


----------



## USFORCES

Well we will probably never be told how bad it really is and probably better off not knowing, LOL


----------



## lordikon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aweir*


Radiation in spots of Tokyo is 3.5 times the legal limit. The only solution to the problem is to raise the legal limit and have the children pet cute little happy Panda bears.


The Giant Panda are native to China, not Japan.


----------



## DesertRat

I read a very small blurb in one of the news articles about people in the northwest US being affected, but I've read nothing major on that oir heard/read any major news stories. I know many of us are in the northwest, or have friends up there. I know there must be some effects by now, but I get the feeling it's being silenced *puts on derp foil hat*.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DesertRat;13923803*
> I read a very small blurb in one of the news articles about people in the northwest US being affected, but I've read nothing major on that oir heard/read any major news stories. I know many of us are in the northwest, or have friends up there. I know there must be some effects by now, but I get the feeling it's being silenced *puts on derp foil hat*.


I would think the radiation would have to be quite strong for anyone in the western US to even be able to detect with a basic gieger counter, let alone have it be an amount of radiation that will affect them.

There were stories of radiation be detected in trace amounts in water and milk in parts of the US. By 'trace amounts' they said it was about 1/1000th the legal limit.


----------



## just_nuke_em

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon;13925114*
> I would think the radiation would have to be quite strong for anyone in the western US to even be able to detect with a basic gieger counter, let alone have it be an amount of radiation that will affect them.
> 
> There were stories of radiation be detected in trace amounts in water and milk in parts of the US. By 'trace amounts' they said it was about 1/1000th the legal limit.


They where able to measure the increase in radiation, but it was still under the acceptable limits. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2014693490_nukemonitors06m.html

I for one actually did get a (repeatable) larger reading on my meter when the explosion happen than I did before and a while after. The levels where very small though.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DesertRat;13923803*
> I read a very small blurb in one of the news articles about people in the northwest US being affected, but I've read nothing major on that oir heard/read any major news stories. I know many of us are in the northwest, or have friends up there. I know there must be some effects by now, but I get the feeling it's being silenced *puts on derp foil hat*.


I trust that there are enough individuals with Geiger counters on the west coast that the government couldn't do much hiding if there was a whole bunch of radiation.

We already know what radiation levels can be considered safe, and we already have a bunch of Geiger counters that are NOT government operated. I just don't see any way they could skew that.


----------



## Semyon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *just_nuke_em;13925329*
> They where able to measure the increase in radiation, but it was still under the acceptable limits. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2014693490_nukemonitors06m.html
> 
> I for one actually did get a (repeatable) larger reading on my meter when the explosion happen than I did before and a while after. The levels where very small though.


how much did that meter cost you?


----------



## just_nuke_em

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Semyon;13925720*
> how much did that meter cost you?


$40. You can get them off ebay. CDV-717. Only measures gamma rad, but it looks awesome sitting on my desk, and it matches my "interests" (see user name).


----------



## Helios.be

Just informaton wise:
Lethal dose for 50% gamma radiation is 3.5-4 grays= 3.5-4 sieverts, background radiation is 0.003 sieverts, so triple that and youre stil far off. This is for acute radiation syndrome, longterm wise everyone has about 1/3 chance of getting cancer at some stage of their life, so adding that 0,001% wont mean anything, just dont eat for today and youre cardiovacular risk will have dropped by more than 0,001% and youll be fine.


----------



## Helios.be

Also their have been repports of people having less cancer in high radiotion areas due to high radon concentration.


----------



## FairDoos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Helios.be;13926036*
> Also their have been repports of people having less cancer in high radiotion areas due to high radon concentration.


How can you get less cancer? That doesn't make sense?


----------



## nvvit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FairDoos;13926088*
> How can you get less cancer? That doesn't make sense?


It doesn't. There have been some studies telling that, but I don't think any logical explanation exists. Most probably just flawed research.


----------



## Helios.be

Less cancer? Less people get cancer, thats what i meant. And why not? If your body gets used to small doses of DNA repair, by radiation, it might cope better with endless replications in cells that also need DNA repair. And im Not going to argue if certain studies were false or not, otherwise we can throw everything overboard, theres just no certainty when it comes to small doses of radiation, you better ditch your sellphone if youre afraid of that, way easier then clearing out other background radiation


----------



## Semyon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Helios.be;13926149*
> Less cancer? Less people get cancer, thats what i meant. And why not? If your body gets used to small doses of DNA repair, by radiation, it might cope better with endless replications in cells that also need DNA repair. And im Not going to argue if certain studies were false or not, otherwise we can throw everything overboard, theres just no certainty when it comes to small doses of radiation, you better ditch your sellphone if youre afraid of that, way easier then clearing out other background radiation


cell phone radiation is completely different to nuclear radiation.


----------



## Daegameth

Rationalizing a situation with what you think is common sense only breeds misinformation.

Our cells run DNA repair mechanisms all the time, it's a part of cell reproduction. Errors occur all the time during DNA duplication, but those cells are able to catch ~90%+ of the errors. The stuff that isn't caught has a high probability of happening in an area of DNA that is not used (junk DNA). Increasing radiation increases DNA damage with either would be copied verbatim into more and more cells or increases the errors to be corrected. This increases the amount of errors that each has a chance to affect a "useful" or working part of the DNA.


----------



## Helios.be

First of all both sellphone and gamma radiaton are electromagnetic, and recent studies have been able to confirm high usage to brain tumors ( well offcourse thats what our national news tells me, but if its correct or not, dont know.)

Secondly dna dammage by replication does not happen all time, the percentage would be more like 99,999%, which is a lot less then 90%. Above that, dna dammage occurs spontaniously from all sorts of sources, from oxidatives to uv radiation, forming thymidine dimers etc.
That said i dont know what possible explenations might be, maybe the one i gave isnt. But this seems to be going a little off topic, all i was trying to say was if youre scared to lose some years of your life, their are other things to wory about. There is no need to start a panic over this.


----------



## Semyon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Helios.be;13926698*
> First of all both sellphone and gamma radiaton are electromagnetic, and recent studies have been able to confirm high usage to brain tumors ( well offcourse thats what our national news tells me, but if its correct or not, dont know.)
> 
> Secondly dna dammage by replication does not happen all time, the percentage would be more like 99,999%, which is a lot less then 90%. Above that, dna dammage occurs spontaniously from all sorts of sources, from oxidatives to uv radiation, forming thymidine dimers etc.
> That said i dont know what possible explenations might be, maybe the one i gave isnt. But this seems to be going a little off topic, all i was trying to say was if youre scared to lose some years of your life, their are other things to wory about. There is no need to start a panic over this.


I know of zero recent studies (or any studies at all for that matter) that have ever confirmed a causal relationship between cell phone radiation and brain tumours. If you're referring to the WHO report, that absolutely *did not* confirm a causal relationship; it simply stated that there was too much contrary evidence to disprove a relationship.


----------



## Helios.be

The study im referring to has excluded chance from the equation, p < 0,05, meaning their is statistical significance, which means theirs less than 5% chance to make a type 1 mistake, for this study that is, so it still might be luck, maybe not.
I would look it up myself, since it might be intresting, as i am not 100 %, even though they did state it like this. But right now studying is at hand


----------



## Semyon

Mountain of problems still remains before ***ushima plant brought under control


----------



## Ironcobra

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Semyon*


Mountain of problems still remains before ***ushima plant brought under control


If it melted down how can they bring it under control they can attempt to contain it but thats a long shot, u got to lulz at the media and there wordage.


----------



## Helios.be

Thats japanese style, these guys (according to their national news) have got it all under control.. Dont wory people, only your drinking water is contaminated..


----------



## Semyon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ironcobra*


If it melted down how can they bring it under control they can attempt to contain it but thats a long shot, u got to lulz at the media and there wordage.


It's common and confirmed knowledge that the cores suffered a complete meltdown. Yes, the only thing they can do now is contain it until it's cool enough to extract.


----------



## DesertRat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Semyon;13972614*
> It's common and confirmed knowledge that the cores suffered a complete meltdown. Yes, the only thing they can do now is contain it until it's cool enough to extract.


How do you extract core material that will be "hot" for thousands of years? Even robots can't operate with radiation levels that high.


----------



## Semyon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DesertRat;13974524*
> How do you extract core material that will be "hot" for thousands of years? Even robots can't operate with radiation levels that high.


Well that's the problem, isn't it. The technology doesn't exist.


----------



## DesertRat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Semyon;13974534*
> Well that's the problem, isn't it. The technology doesn't exist.


Only thing I can think of, even fictionally to clean it up, would be transporters. But i doubt even the Enterprise-E's targeting scanners could get through all that radiation


----------



## 45nm

Those interested in learning more about ***ushima should look here:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25327
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25334
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25245
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25204
http://tv.globalresearch.ca/2011/06/***ushima-predicted-regulatory-commission-was-warned-years
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25018
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24971
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24949
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24894
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24854
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24760


----------



## Maxxa

Apparently they got hit again this morning.

6.7 in the same region as "the big one".

Source


----------



## Ironcobra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maxxa;13975955*
> Apparently they got hit again this morning.
> 
> 6.7 in the same region as "the big one".
> 
> Source


Right as we got hit with a massive solar flare/cme.


----------



## Inverse

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DesertRat*


Only thing I can think of, even fictionally to clean it up, would be transporters. But i doubt even the Enterprise-E's targeting scanners could get through all that radiation










*Twitching~* Please don't get me started~ lol XD


----------



## Lampen

Quote:


> Campaigners in Japan are asking people to grow sunflowers, said to help decontaminate radioactive soil, in response to the ***ushima nuclear disaster that followed March's massive quake and tsunami.
> 
> Volunteers are being asked to grow sunflowers this year, then send the seeds to the stricken area where they will be planted next year to help get rid of radioactive contaminants in the plant's fallout zone.
> 
> The campaign, launched by young entrepreneurs and civil servants in ***ushima prefecture last month, aims to cover large areas in yellow blossoms as a symbol of hope and reconstruction and to lure back tourists.
> 
> "We will give the seeds sent back by people for free to farmers, the public sector and other groups next year," said project leader Shinji Handa. The goal is a landscape so yellow that "it will surprise NASA", he said.
> 
> The massive earthquake and tsunami left more than 23,000 people dead or missing on Japan's northeast coast and crippled the ***ushima nuclear power plant that has leaked radiation into the environment since.
> 
> Almost 10,000 packets of sunflower seeds at 500 yen ($6) each have so far been sold to some 30,000 people, including to the city of Yokohama near Tokyo, which is growing sunflowers in 200 parks, Handa said.


Source: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.ea298a6179f170db0cbddba5974710a6.1c1&show_article=1

Article doesn't say it but the plants will try to pull potassium(kalium) from the soil and when none or low amounts is found they'll pull up the radioactive cesium instead. Interesting way of cleaning up some of the radioactive material, but what do you do with the plant waste afterward? Certainly can't go around giving out free sunflower seeds.


----------



## 45nm

Update:

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25383


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *45nm;13989223*
> Update:
> 
> http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25383


The criminals at Health Canada refuse to even acknowledge a danger, but thats no surprise, they certify that uranium projectile weapons are safe for the military that fires it, and civilian population that lives in its dust...

and that breathing and eating uranium oxide from those weapons is completely healthy and safe


----------



## coffeejunky

Quote:


> radioactive materials at a concentration just one-one hundred millionth of that found around the ***ushima plant hit the west coast of North America three days later


Guys you have better things to worry about than this


----------



## Mit Namso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeejunky;13989920*
> Guys you have better things to worry about than this


breathing 1 dust sized spec of plutonium or uranium can easily give you cancer 20 years later

10 of millions of people will die years later from breathing this stuff in, or eating/drinking it. And babies and children are at the greatest risk due to their fast splitting cells as they grow.


----------



## 45nm

Quote:



Originally Posted by *coffeejunky*


Guys you have better things to worry about than this










The Term *Hot Particles* should be a wake up call.


----------



## froogle

Japan is f()cked. 
Its government had done nothing. 
Prime Minister Kan is a joke.

You people in the West (not attempting to be rude) don't have nearly as much access to information to the native Japanese. I'm saying this only once. In 20-30 years time, there will be a spike in cancer patients. There will be more deformed babies. There will be more deaths. It's only then that the Japanese people will start to complain. There is a lack of education and awareness which makes me want to jump off a cliff this instant.

The people in Tokyo...they're living their lives as normal. Breathing in radiation. Internal radiation via food. It's just shocking. The government is letting this happen. I myself lived in Tokyo, but I evacuated myself to the Kyuushuu area. I guess that they have their daily lives to maintain...and causing a nationwide panic would be "excessive"...but this is the decision coming from the IDIOT who decline US help in containing the ***ushima Reactors when they were overheating.

Panic is what Japan needs right now. 
The numbers are out there.
The knowledge is out there.
People are just not wanting to comprehend it.
If the TV and reliable news sources are not "panicking", and all seems to be A-OK, then why run away?
The censorship is awful.

RANT OVER.
I have some other examples of the twisted reality of the situation in Japan if you want to hear some more.


----------



## A-E-I-Owned-You

Quote:



Originally Posted by *coffeejunky*


Guys you have better things to worry about than this










lolfail. Do you realize how far that traveled? One more mistake and it could easily get alot stronger and go alot further. That it touched us at all is no good. I cant believe you said that... :/


----------



## froogle

Radiation equivalent to the Hiroshima nuclear bomb, is being emitted from the ***ushima Nuclear Reactors every day. Every day.


----------



## 100PARIK

Quote:



Originally Posted by *froogle*


Japan is f()cked. 
Its government had done nothing. 
Prime Minister Kan is a joke.

You people in the West (not attempting to be rude) don't have nearly as much access to information to the native Japanese. I'm saying this only once. In 20-30 years time, there will be a spike in cancer patients. There will be more deformed babies. There will be more deaths. It's only then that the Japanese people will start to complain. There is a lack of education and awareness which makes me want to jump off a cliff this instant.

The people in Tokyo...they're living their lives as normal. Breathing in radiation. Internal radiation via food. It's just shocking. The government is letting this happen. I myself lived in Tokyo, but I evacuated myself to the Kyuushuu area. I guess that they have their daily lives to maintain...and causing a nationwide panic would be "excessive"...but this is the decision coming from the IDIOT who decline US help in containing the ***ushima Reactors when they were overheating.

Panic is what Japan needs right now. 
The numbers are out there.
The knowledge is out there.
People are just not wanting to comprehend it.
If the TV and reliable news sources are not "panicking", and all seems to be A-OK, then why run away?
The censorship is awful.

RANT OVER.
I have some other examples of the twisted reality of the situation in Japan if you want to hear some more.



***ushima is a very clear reflection of Chernobyl... You'd think world would learn something, but they didn't. I'm Ukrainian myself, and I lived half of my life in Ukraine. Japs are f__ED big time, for the second time.


----------



## Semyon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mit Namso;13990501*
> breathing 1 dust sized spec of plutonium or uranium can easily give you cancer 20 years later
> 
> 10 of millions of people will die years later from breathing this stuff in, or eating/drinking it. And babies and children are at the greatest risk due to their fast splitting cells as they grow.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *45nm;13992568*
> The Term *Hot Particles* should be a wake up call.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *A-E-I-Owned-You;13993144*
> lolfail. Do you realize how far that traveled? One more mistake and it could easily get alot stronger and go alot further. That it touched us at all is no good. I cant believe you said that... :/


Really. If one-one hundred millionth of this radiation could give you cancer in a few years, then the full radiation at its source would have killed people already.


----------



## A-E-I-Owned-You

All I said is that where there is a little, there is more. The fact that it came this far is of concern for sure. Means the source is still rather strong.


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Semyon;13995383*
> Really. If one-one hundred millionth of this radiation could give you cancer in a few years, then the full radiation at its source would have killed people already.


I strongly advise Re-Reading and Watching the following Material.

[ame]http://vimeo.com/25002205[/ame]

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25383
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25327
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25334
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25245
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25204
http://tv.globalresearch.ca/2011/06/***ushima-predicted-regulatory-commission-was-warned-years
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25018
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24971
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24949
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24894
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24854
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24760


----------



## Helios.be

That guy makes money out of this, this is sick. LETS GO TO SEE HIM, he'll tell us all about who to sew and save our selfs in trade for some cash deposits. So in seatle they breath 1/6th of that in tokyo, even though its >5000 km away? Maybe theres a direct line of cesium going to america, consider it as an attack i would. That guy is a joke.

Nuclear testing was done untill 1992 in nevada, so why scream hell and fire if some stuff leaks 5000 km away? The cesium in your lungs is probably 99% of the weapons testing in your own country.


----------



## coffeejunky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Helios.be;13998976*
> Nuclear testing was done untill 1992 in nevada, so why scream hell and fire if some stuff leaks 5000 km away? The cesium in your lungs is probably 99% of the weapons testing in your own country.


This is why I said that 'you guys have better things to worry about'.
Hot particles or no hot particles, your lungs deal with dust through mucus secretion. It won't be there forever. If it does a small amount of damage your lungs will manage. All of you guys who are foretelling doom, do you use solvents frequently, do you smoke or frequently go to passive smoking environments? All of these can damage your lungs too. While we're on that subject, you should be thinking about your diet over this issue, heart disease and diabetes will be more of a risk to people in North America than radiation.
Lets also consider Chernobyl, there you had a massive event where the reactor blew up, fuel was blown all over, then theres the fire that resulted afterwards. Western Europe got quite a bit of the fallout, and was closer to the Ukraine than Japan is to the States, but we don't have, and I quote, "tens of millions" extra cancer patients and deaths.

Please can we think about those people in Japan, and Korea, China and Russia. They are far, far closer to the source, they actually do have something to worry about. In particular the workers who are exposing themselves to significant amounts of radiation to try to bring this issue under control.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *45nm;13995572*
> I strongly advise Re-Reading and Watching the following Material.
> 
> http://vimeo.com/25002205
> 
> http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25383
> http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25327
> http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25334
> http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25245
> http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25204
> http://tv.globalresearch.ca/2011/06/***ushima-predicted-regulatory-commission-was-warned-years
> http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25018
> http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24971
> http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24949
> http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24894
> http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24854
> http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24760


Fear-mongering.


----------



## Helios.be

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeejunky;13999086*
> This is why I said that 'you guys have better things to worry about'.
> Hot particles or no hot particles, your lungs deal with dust through mucus secretion. It won't be there forever. If it does a small amount of damage your lungs will manage. All of you guys who are foretelling doom, do you use solvents frequently, do you smoke or frequently go to passive smoking environments? All of these can damage your lungs too. While we're on that subject, you should be thinking about your diet over this issue, heart disease and diabetes will be more of a risk to people in North America than radiation.
> Lets also consider Chernobyl, there you had a massive event where the reactor blew up, fuel was blown all over, then theres the fire that resulted afterwards. Western Europe got quite a bit of the fallout, and was closer to the Ukraine than Japan is to the States, but we don't have, and I quote, "tens of millions" extra cancer patients and deaths.
> 
> Please can we think about those people in Japan, and Korea, China and Russia. They are far, far closer to the source, they actually do have something to worry about. In particular the workers who are exposing themselves to significant amounts of radiation to try to bring this issue under control.


Amen.


----------



## 45nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SgtSpike;13999111*
> Fear-mongering.


Perhaps you also wish to call Al-Jazeera fear Mongering with this article:

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/06/201161664828302638.html

Fear Mongering is a typical generic response. I have provided reliable and accurate resources that are Independent Media that do not use Fear Mongering but expose the Seriousness of the situation. Here's also another recent Video Article on the US Situation:

http://tv.globalresearch.ca/2011/06/us-vs-japan-threat-radiation-speculation


----------



## Helios.be

That globalresearch site is a joke, al jazeera just status the situation is bad in japan, to which we al agree, just not in america. So yet again no proof.


----------



## Dylanlip

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeejunky;13999086*
> This is why I said that 'you guys have better things to worry about'.
> Hot particles or no hot particles, your lungs deal with dust through mucus secretion. It won't be there forever. If it does a small amount of damage your lungs will manage. All of you guys who are foretelling doom, do you use solvents frequently, do you smoke or frequently go to passive smoking environments? All of these can damage your lungs too. While we're on that subject, you should be thinking about your diet over this issue, heart disease and diabetes will be more of a risk to people in North America than radiation.
> Lets also consider Chernobyl, there you had a massive event where the reactor blew up, fuel was blown all over, then theres the fire that resulted afterwards. Western Europe got quite a bit of the fallout, and was closer to the Ukraine than Japan is to the States, but we don't have, and I quote, "tens of millions" extra cancer patients and deaths.
> 
> Please can we think about those people in Japan, and Korea, China and Russia. They are far, far closer to the source, they actually do have something to worry about. In particular the workers who are exposing themselves to significant amounts of radiation to try to bring this issue under control.


This. x1000.


----------



## aweir

What's all this fear-mongering nonsense about radiation being harmful?

Even Ann Coulter said a little radiation is good for you.

Just don't tell anyone that an orange will cure scurvy because you might end up in jail.


----------



## 100PARIK

For full article with videos and pictures go to: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25423

All the good stuff is blocked at work.
Quote:


> TEPCO has decided to entomb Reactor 1, which is confirmed in a state of full meltdown, in a sarcophagus shell to contain the high amounts of radiation that escape every day. Simulations have led experts to believe that meltdown occurred after 3.5 hours after the cooling systems stopped. While TEPCO finishes the designs for its containment structure in Japan, in the Ukraine, the Chernobyl sarcophagus is also being re-encased. The installment of the cover is a temporary emergency measure, and its ability to withstand seismic activity is unknown.
> 
> The full situation inside of Reactor 1 has not been released to the public yet, but monitoring of pressure readings inside of the RPV show that the pressure is equal to atmospheric pressure and dropping. Both Reactor 2 and Reactor 3 RPV pressure levels currently register a lower than atomospheric pressure reading.
> 
> Video inside of the plant on June 3rd, provided footage of steam forced out of the reactor that registered over 4 Sieverts. While TEPCO continues to claim the pressure levels recorded in the Containment Vessel mean that the melted core has not yet escaped all containment measures, they do admit that contaminated water continues to leak from the Containment Vessel. There is estimated to be at least one 7 centimeter hole in the CV. TEPCO has announced that they do plan to install a new pressure gauge for the CV at some point in the future, and also must replace the broken radiation detection instrument in the drywell.
> 
> Hiroaki Koide of Kyoto University Research Reactor Institute is quoted by Mainichi Shinbun as saying that the melted core of the Reactor 1 is not just out of the Reactor Pressure Vessel but out of the Containment Vessel.
> 
> From Mainichi Shinbun, Koide's comments only (5/16/2011):
> 
> 小出裕章・京都大原子炉実験所助教は「電源喪失で原子炉が冷やせなくなれば、早い時期に炉心溶融に至ることは想定できていたはずだ。燃料の損傷が限定的だとしてきた東電の説明は完全に誤っていたことになる。データの公表も遅すぎる」と指摘する。
> 
> Hiroaki Koide of Kyoto University Research Reactor Institute points out that TEPCO could have foreseen the core melt at an early stage when the cooling of the reactor stopped due to the power failure. TEPCO's assessment that the damage to the fuel was limited has turned out to be completely wrong. The disclosure of the data came too late."
> 
> 東電は今回の解析で「圧力容器の損傷は大規模ではない」と説明するが、小出助教は「圧力容器は完全に破損し、溶けた燃料が格納容器の底に穴を開け、原子炉建屋の地下に大量の汚染水が漏れ出す原因になっている」と推定する。
> 
> According to TEPCO, the data analysis shows that damage to the RPV is not extensive. However, Koide thinks "The RPV has been completely damaged, the melted core bore a hole at the bottom of the Containment Vessel, causing the large amount of contaminated water to leak into the ground beneath the reactor building."
> 
> While the question of whether the Corium has escaped the building remains unanswered, the radiation levels inside and outside of the Reactor 1 building remain a constant enemy for workers. Beside the 4,000 mSv steam, in May readings inside of the building registered 1,000 mSv on the 2nd floor, 2,000 mSv inside the southeast double door, and it is estimated at least 3,000 tons of contaminated water had leaked into the basement by mid-May. By that point TEPCO had injected over 10,000 tons of water inside of the RPV, and the exact location of the other 7,000 tons was never produced. These are just a few of the many obstacles that face TEPCO as they attempt to keep the situation under control to be able to complete the sarcophagus construction.
> 
> How much melted fuel is at ***ushima Daiichi?
> 
> These estimates are based off of public information regarding amounts of fuel stored in Reactor 1, Reactor 2, and Reactor 3. All listed reactors are currently believed to be in a state of full-meltdown, but the actual amount of corium is likely greater than numbers used as other elements are incorporated during a meltdown.a
> 
> These estimates are based off of public information regarding amounts of fuel stored in Reactor 1, Reactor 2, and Reactor 3. All listed reactors are currently believed to be in a state of full-meltdown, but the actual amount of corium is likely greater than numbers used as other elements are incorporated during a meltdown.
> 
> The covering structure was initially designed with a steel frame and a resin-coated polyester covering, but was redesigned with concrete walls. TEPCO has not provided what information was used to determine the ability of the ground around the sarcophagus to hold the additional weight of the structure and original reactor building. There is also no mention of what would happen if the melted corium, which thought to have escaped containment, were to cause an explosion inside of the structure.
> 
> A model of the structure and cranes used to assemble it.
> 
> Construction on the concrete and steel structure will begin on June 27th, according to the latest updated plans released by TEPCO. High levels of radiation will severely limit the amount of work that can be done on-site, and will also accelerate the aging of materials used for the sarcophagus. This is one of the lessons learned from the construction of the first sarcophagus at Chernobyl, and to combat the on-site radiation, TEPCO will build many parts off-site. The utility hopes to finish prefabrication of the frame and have it shipped to the site by late July.
> 
> The sarcophagus that encases Reactor 4 at Chernobyl was also constructed in haste, and is currently in an desperate need of repair. The greatest problems with the Chernobyl sarcophagus is its lack of stability, which will be a even greater problem at ***ushima Daiichi.
> 
> The assembly process is to be primarily accomplished by remotely controlled cranes and other automated vehicles, in order to limit the amount of radiation workers are exposed to. This is the plan at least, at Chernobyl initially robotic equipment was used to try and clear debris from the roof and around the damaged reactor, but the high levels of radiation caused all the equipment to fail. This forced the Soviet Government to send in over 500,000 bio-robots from all around the Soviet Union.
> 
> The cranes to be used at ***ushima Daiichi are capable of transporting over 750 tons per load, but even the largest cranes in Japan can be rendered scrap if the wiring and electrical components are compromised by radiation. To connect the frame, TEPCO developed a new connection part to try and create a functional fitting connection to keep the workers from entering the assembling area as little as possible.
> 
> A diagram of the newly designed connection parts for the structure
> 
> If the shroud is completed, it must also be able to prevent precipitation from entering the reactors, and limit the emission of radiation from the reactors and spent fuel pools. Despite all of the best made plans, utility officials admit they are unsure of if construction can be completed, if it will perform as expected, and how long it may last.
> 
> Some of the many unanswered questions are, how much radioactive waste will need to be removed prior to construction, and how will TEPCO accomplish this. If the remote-controlled equipment fails, what is the contingency plan?
> 
> Chernobyl Sarcophagus
> 
> Similar to ***ushima, the initial Chernobyl Structure was also constructed as an emergency measure to prevent radiation from being released into the atmosphere and further contaminating the northern hemisphere. Only 200 tons of radioactive corium is locked within the structure, a fraction of the amounts estimated to be in the reactors at ***ushima Daiichi. The radioactivity inside of the sarcophagus prevented work from being completed at the time.
> 
> 1. The structure at Chernobyl was constructed out of more than 7,000 tons of steel and 410,000m3 of concrete
> 2. Due to harsh construction environment the structure was completed even though it had many defects and cracks that still allowed some radiation to be dispersed.
> 
> 3. Has not lived up to design expectations
> 
> 4. Current sarcophagus is not in good shape at all
> 
> 5. Current sarcophagus would collapse in an earthquake measuring 6 or more
> 
> 6. Europe is constructing a new dome over contaminated plant to prevent another nuclear disaster.
> 
> 7. Construction on a new sarcophagus began in 2010 and is expected to be completed in 2012
> 
> 8. Funding for the new containment shelter was paid for by many countries
> 
> 9. The new structure completed in 2011 will require further upgrades in 100 years


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## Helios.be

This does cause the realisation that most of us are surrounded by these, and youre home might be in the next deadzone.. Sure hope theyre going to rebuild the energy sources the green way, could give a boost in ecology/ economy..


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## AzO

Japan's Ohi nuclear reactor shuts down after fault


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## _GTech

All I can say is, I'm sorry that these scientist were permitted to persuade governments that Nuclear Energy was worth the risk of radiation leaking upon the people world wide, causing innumerable problems which, despite the facts that it indeed happened, it cannot be calculated or measured by any means. I see events like these and I think accountability needs to come into effect, those that pass the bills for Nuclear Energy and people die from it, it indicative to sentencing people to death, someone must pay for those deaths as well, it's still murder, and of the highest form of mass murder when you openly chose to allow it to happen.

With that being said, I will bow out of the discussion of Japan's problems, they brought it upon themselves, they knew there was always the chance that a massive earthquake could happen &/or a Tsunami as well, therefore predicting a possible fallout would be easy to calculate, it's about 1 in 20 years something like this most likely would happen, the truth is, given that fact, what were the odds of the plant(s) melting down?

Knowing those odds was it worth all that risk? You gambled with your people's very lives, and you lost that gamble, I say it's time to pay up, and dearly, those people that you killed, and their families deserve to sue their government, the corporations who got rich from the energy, and anyone else that was on the board for those corporations. It's not a matter of IF they are guilty, they are openly guilty of murder here.


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## ljason8eg

You need to look up what murder means. There was no intent to kill.


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## Semyon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *_GTech*


All I can say is, I'm sorry that these scientist were permitted to persuade governments that Nuclear Energy was worth the risk of radiation leaking upon the people world wide, causing innumerable problems which, despite the facts that it indeed happened, it cannot be calculated or measured by any means. I see events like these and I think accountability needs to come into effect, those that pass the bills for Nuclear Energy and people die from it, it indicative to sentencing people to death, someone must pay for those deaths as well, it's still murder, and of the highest form of mass murder when you openly chose to allow it to happen.

With that being said, I will bow out of the discussion of Japan's problems, they brought it upon themselves, they knew there was always the chance that a massive earthquake could happen &/or a Tsunami as well, therefore predicting a possible fallout would be easy to calculate, it's about 1 in 20 years something like this most likely would happen, the truth is, given that fact, what were the odds of the plant(s) melting down?

Knowing those odds was it worth all that risk? You gambled with your people's very lives, and you lost that gamble, I say it's time to pay up, and dearly, those people that you killed, and their families deserve to sue their government, the corporations who got rich from the energy, and anyone else that was on the board for those corporations. It's not a matter of IF they are guilty, they are openly guilty of murder here.


The number of people killed by nuclear energy pales in comparison to the deaths resulting from fossil fuel pollution, nuclear weapons testing, airplane crashes, road crashes, shootings etc. Seriously, get over it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ljason8eg*


You need to look up what murder means. There was no intent to kill.


and this.


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## Dyson Poindexter

Nuclear energy is one of the safest power sources out there. Stop being a bunch of wusses. Light water reactors aren't that bad.


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## Ironcobra

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dyson Poindexter*


Nuclear energy is one of the safest power sources out there. Stop being a bunch of wusses. Light water reactors aren't that bad.


One of the safest???? If your talking from a political stance yes, nuclear power hasnt killed as many as the war for oil, coal, and natural gas....but if your talking from a strictly energy standpoint can i have whatever your smoking? How is radiation from Chernobyl, Japan, and where ever else that has half lives of thosands of years and most likely contributing big time to the astronomically high cancer rates and making landscapes unlivable for thousands of years safe? You pro nukers are hilarious







Wish i could live with my head in the sand.


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## Dyson Poindexter

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ironcobra*


One of the safest???? If your talking from a political stance yes, nuclear power hasnt killed as many as the war for oil, coal, and natural gas....but if your talking from a strictly energy standpoint can i have whatever your smoking? How is radiation from Chernobyl, Japan, and where ever else that has half lives of thosands of years and most likely contributing big time to the astronomically high cancer rates and making landscapes unlivable for thousands of years safe? You pro nukers are hilarious










Except you get more radiation from coal plants than nuclear ones. Coal contains uranium, thorium, strontium, etc. And that goes into the air and water! Ew!

Also, you get more radiation from eating a banana or having sex than you do from a nuke plant.

Getting antsy about Chernobyl is like being distraught that the Ford Model A did not have airbags. Perfectly valid point, but we don't allow those on the road anymore.


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## Dyson Poindexter

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ironcobra*


Wish i could live with my head in the sand.


 I live a few miles from a plant called Browns Ferry. It's the same model as ***ushima.

Do I live in fear? No.

Has that plant hurt anyone? No.

Does it provide me with super cheap, clean energy? Heck yes.


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## Dyson Poindexter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyson Poindexter;14240473*
> I live a few miles from a plant called Browns Ferry. It's the same model as ***ushima.
> 
> Do I live in fear? No.
> 
> Has that plant hurt anyone? No.
> 
> Does it provide me with super cheap, clean energy? Heck yes.


Also, the plant was nearly hit with an F4 tornado back in April. It scrammed automatically and nobody thought anything of it.


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## lordikon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ironcobra*


One of the safest???? If your talking from a political stance yes, nuclear power hasnt killed as many as the war for oil, coal, and natural gas....but if your talking from a strictly energy standpoint can i have whatever your smoking? How is radiation from Chernobyl, Japan, and where ever else that has half lives of thosands of years and most likely contributing big time to the astronomically high cancer rates and making landscapes unlivable for thousands of years safe? You pro nukers are hilarious







Wish i could live with my head in the sand.


You have no idea what you're talking about, the pollution from coal and gas plants has killed many more people than the radiation from a couple of meltdowns. Ignorant people like yourself are what spread fear of Nuclear power and prevent us from building new plants, so we continue to live in the stone age using sources that pollute many times more, and are much more costly and inefficient.

Also, @Dysan (posts above me), please use the Edit button to edit your posts, rather than triple posting.


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## Odyn

Well. I'm off to Japan for 3 weeks. Anything I should be worried about? Please don't say anything without backing it up with SOURCES. I've been trying to find stuff but have been relatively unsuccessful. Any precautions I should be taking? Will me much appreciated!


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## Highrisk

I'm not sure if this has been posted, but I found it thanks to reddit.com. 
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-0...?section=world
- "Radiation levels spike at ***ushima nuclear power plant"
Updated August 02, 2011 09:42:00


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## Mit Namso

Quote:



Geiger counters, used to detect radioactivity, registered more than 10 sieverts an hour, the highest reading the devices are able to record, Junichi Matsumoto, a general manager at the utility, said today. The measurements were taken at the base of the main ventilation stack for reactors No. 1 and No. 2


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...-dai-ichi.html


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## Ironcobra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon;14240577*
> You have no idea what you're talking about, the pollution from coal and gas plants has killed many more people than the radiation from a couple of meltdowns. Ignorant people like yourself are what spread fear of Nuclear power and prevent us from building new plants, so we continue to live in the stone age using sources that pollute many times more, and are much more costly and inefficient.
> 
> Also, @Dysan (posts above me), please use the Edit button to edit your posts, rather than triple posting.


Sorry nuclear power doesn't belong here, we cant even run our governments, schools, etc.. fossil/nuclear radiation will be the downfall of humanity if we do not come up with something alot cleaner i understand the problems with coal and others its just as bad but nuclear is not the solution it destroys the land around it for pretty much a long time period? Watch were your throwing that ignorant word around I'm not advocating fossil fuels here either. There is more than enough sunshine and heat for geothermal/tidal or solar power its people like you believing the company line from these industries that nuclear or fossil fuels are the only way!!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Odyn;14240634*
> Well. I'm off to Japan for 3 weeks. Anything I should be worried about? Please don't say anything without backing it up with SOURCES. I've been trying to find stuff but have been relatively unsuccessful. Any precautions I should be taking? Will me much appreciated!


What parts I'd be eating lots of kelp or seaweed while i was there, good luck!


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## aweir

guys i have a really cool idea to create electricity.

Let's find some really dangerous radioactive element in the ground and use it to boil water. We could spend millions of dollars to enrich it. Then we put it in a big boiler where it has to be encased with many feet of cement, have water running around it for thousands of years, requires constant monitoring for hundreds of years, and the government can spend billions of dollars to control, regulate, and monitor it. Then when it melts down we can evacuate thousands of people from their homes, families, and lives and lie to the public and say everything is all right. Then when the world realizes what is going on, we can cover it up and say "everything is fine" but you cannot live here for the next 100 years.


----------



## Crooksy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;14437991*
> guys i have a really cool idea to create electricity.
> 
> Let's find some really dangerous radioactive element in the ground and use it to boil water. We could spend millions of dollars to enrich it. Then we put it in a big boiler where it has to be encased with many feet of cement, have water running around it for thousands of years, requires constant monitoring for hundreds of years, and the government can spend billions of dollars to control, regulate, and monitor it. Then when it melts down we can evacuate thousands of people from their homes, families, and lives and lie to the public and say everything is all right. Then when the world realizes what is going on, we can cover it up and say "everything is fine" but you cannot live here for the next 100 years.


Moron


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## Ironcobra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crooksy;14438020*
> Moron


I could say the same thing


----------



## bratas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon;14240577*
> You have no idea what you're talking about, the pollution from coal and gas plants has killed many more people than the radiation from a couple of meltdowns. Ignorant people like yourself are what spread fear of Nuclear power and prevent us from building new plants, so we continue to live in the stone age using sources that pollute many times more, and are much more costly and inefficient.
> 
> Also, @Dysan (posts above me), please use the Edit button to edit your posts, rather than triple posting.


Outside of the mining for coal, why don't you give your source of information on how a coal power plant has killed 1 person from the pollution of CO2? Even if there was one death directly related to CO2 inhalation, did that idiot stick their head directly in the exhaust to commit suicide? don't get me wrong I am not advocating using fossil fuels as the best source of energy by any means, but when you are putting a blatant statement of X pollution has killed many more than Y pollution, you should check your numbers.


----------



## SgtSpike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ironcobra;14437786*
> Sorry nuclear power doesn't belong here, we cant even run our governments, schools, etc.. fossil/nuclear radiation will be the downfall of humanity if we do not come up with something alot cleaner i understand the problems with coal and others its just as bad but nuclear is not the solution it destroys the land around it for pretty much a long time period? Watch were your throwing that ignorant word around I'm not advocating fossil fuels here either. There is more than enough sunshine and heat for geothermal/tidal or solar power its people like you believing the company line from these industries that nuclear or fossil fuels are the only way!!
> 
> What parts I'd be eating lots of kelp or seaweed while i was there, good luck!


There is NOT enough sunshine and heat from geothermal to eliminate other energy sources. You can't use sunshine at night, and geothermal only provides so much warmth/cooling, and only in certain areas is it even viable.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;14437991*
> guys i have a really cool idea to create electricity.
> 
> Let's find some really dangerous radioactive element in the ground and use it to boil water. We could spend millions of dollars to enrich it. Then we put it in a big boiler where it has to be encased with many feet of cement, have water running around it for thousands of years, requires constant monitoring for hundreds of years, and the government can spend billions of dollars to control, regulate, and monitor it. Then when it melts down we can evacuate thousands of people from their homes, families, and lives and lie to the public and say everything is all right. Then when the world realizes what is going on, we can cover it up and say "everything is fine" but you cannot live here for the next 100 years.


We do what we have to in order to get the electricity we need.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bratas;14438095*
> Outside of the mining for coal, why don't you give your source of information on how a coal power plant has killed 1 person from the pollution of CO2? Even if there was one death directly related to CO2 inhalation, did that idiot stick their head directly in the exhaust to commit suicide? don't get me wrong I am not advocating using fossil fuels as the best source of energy by any means, but when you are putting a blatant statement of X pollution has killed many more than Y pollution, you should check your numbers.


I believe the person's point was that the radiation released from burning coal is actually much higher than all the radiation released from all the nuclear plants around the world combined, including nuclear accidents. Nuclear plants are more dangerous in the local area if an accident happens, but the coal plants are dangerous everywhere - it's just spread so thin that there's not much in the way of statistics to point to, since it affects everyone.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir;14437991*
> guys i have a really cool idea to create electricity.
> 
> Let's find some really dangerous radioactive element in the ground and use it to boil water. We could spend millions of dollars to enrich it. Then we put it in a big boiler where it has to be encased with many feet of cement, have water running around it for thousands of years, requires constant monitoring for hundreds of years, and the government can spend billions of dollars to control, regulate, and monitor it. Then when it melts down we can evacuate thousands of people from their homes, families, and lives and lie to the public and say everything is all right. Then when the world realizes what is going on, we can cover it up and say "everything is fine" but you cannot live here for the next 100 years.


I've got an even better idea, rather than do that lets just continue burning fossil fuels that do even more damage to the environment and people than a couple Nuclear meltdowns every 50 years do.

Instead we could simply convert to using Thorium powered reactors, which are many times more efficient and produce almost no radioactive waste. That would just be blasphemy though, wouldn't it? And in the mean time we could be putting a lot more money into better reactors rather than continuing to rely on 40+ year old technology.


----------



## Domino

The amount of uneducated, closed minded, and extremist thought of people in this thread, be it either against oil production or nuclear energy, should be no place for OCN. This thread needs to be locked.

This is an absolute joke. It went from attempting to inform people of such an accident, and or helping those exposed to such an accident, to a breading ground of extremists that know nearly nothing on what they are talking about but information being pulled by a google search.


----------



## Ironcobra

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Domino*


The amount of uneducated, closed minded, and extremist thought of people in this thread, be it either against oil production or nuclear energy, should be no place for OCN. This thread needs to be locked.

This is an absolute joke. It went from attempting to inform people of such an accident, and or helping those exposed to such an accident, to a breading ground of extremists that know nearly nothing on what they are talking about but information being pulled by a google search.


Please enlighten us, anyone can toss insults around, what qualifications do you have to call us all uneducated, i thought we were having an amateur argument on energy policies? No one here is pretending they have phd's in nuclear physics. It is a discussion forum.


----------



## Vispor

If you own a business or understand economics you can understand the importance or nuclear power. We have to have it.

Sent from my MB611 using Tapatalk


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