# [Guide] Air Cooling Questions Answered Here! (Updated 8/16/10)



## Shadowclock

*2. Fans:* - Personal Favorite (San Ace 9G...H1011 and Yate Loons)

In this *LINK* you will find a review by Vapor at Xtremesystems where he tests out a ton of fans in many different situations. *HERE* is one by Martinm210 with actual YouTube videos so you can hear the exact type of noise each fan makes. Another great fan review done by our very own Ehume *HERE* showing how fans perform on heatsinks specifically. These reviews should help you decide for yourself which is best for what your looking for.

Note before fan installation: Most fans have small arrows on one side that show the direction the blades spin and the direction of the air flow.

*Performance Fans:*
Performance fans are generally used to cool radiators and CPU coolers. Keep in mind that connecting these performance fans to your motherboard is generally a bad idea as they may pull too much power and fry your motherboard's fan header. (Check your motherboard user manual for exact specification ranges)

One 38mm fan in push configuration is usually more than enough to cool most CPU Coolers, if you decide to setup a push / pull with 38mm fans you will most likely only see a 1-2c drop in temperatures and the extra weight on your motherboard may not be worth it.

When using 25mm Performance fans on CPU coolers you may want to utilize a push pull configuration as the 25mm fans do not provide a lot of static pressure unlike the 38mm models (make and model your mileage may vary).

*38mm:*

San Ace(Sanyo Denki) 109R&#8230;H1011 - "The fan of the gods" Most sought after PC fans in the enthusiast market. The 109R's are the older discontinued models. You can still find them on e-bay and the like but they have been replaced with the 9G model which for most purposes is a better fan. PROOF

San Ace(Sanyo Denki) 9G&#8230;H1011 - These new models can be found on a few selective sites.

Panaflo
Panaflo rebrand (Rexus)
*25mm:*

Delta High Speed
Gentle Typhoon - Double Ball bearing, nice and quiet.
Scythe S-Flex G - Another nice and quiet Hydro bearing fan.
Yate Loon High Speed - These are still budget priced but perform in the performance range. *All Yate's are not created equal* SOURCE (Thanks Tator Tot)
Zalman ZM-F3 - Another great fan on a budget. As stated from Xoxide this fan is all that and a bucket of oatmeal! Also comes in red, green, blue LED versions.
Rosewill RFX-120 - Budget fans, Rosewill yes but good dual ball bearing quality. Specs are accurate. Also comes with fan controller & fan guard.

*Budget Fans:*

Budget fans are great for use as case fans as you do not need a lot of static pressure and they don't require high CFM to be effective. These fans are generally cheaper due to them not lasting as long or don't provide as much static pressure even with more "rated" CFM.

Cooler Master-R4 - Comes in multiple LED flavors if wanted.
Yate Loons Mid Speed - the slower, quieter version of this excellent performance fan.
Xigmatek XLF-F1253 - sexy orange fiery look.
*As always when viewing CFM and dBA ratings they can be deceiving. Realize that some manufacturers can rate CFM at max RPM and the dBA at lowest RPM*

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tbF5t7OZPfpYR4q2jqT8Qlg&w=99&h=375 Google Spreadsheet

*Fan Bearings:*

Source

Quote:

The type of bearing used in a fan can affect its performance, noise output and life expectancy.

Most computer fans use one of the following bearing types:

*Sleeve Bearing* fans use two surfaces lubricated with oil or grease as a friction contact. Sleeve bearings are less durable as the contact surfaces can become rough and/or the lubricant dry up, eventually leading to failure. Sleeve bearings may be more likely to fail at higher temperatures, and may perform poorly when mounted in any orientation other than vertical. The lifespan of a sleeve bearing fan may be around 40,000 hours at 50 Â°C. Fans that use sleeve bearings are generally cheaper than fans that use ball bearings, and are quieter at lower speeds early in their life, but can grow considerably noisier as they age.
...
*Ball Bearing* fans use ball bearings. Though generally more expensive, ball bearing fans do not suffer the same orientation limitations as sleeve bearing fans, are more durable especially at higher temperatures, and quieter than sleeve bearing fans at higher rotation speeds. The lifespan of a ball bearing fan may be around 63,000 hours at 50 Â°C.
.
*Fluid Bearing* fans have the advantages of near-silent operation and high life expectancy (comparable to ball bearing fans). However, these fans tend to be the most expensive. The enter bearing fan is a variation of the fluid bearing fan, developed by Everflow.

*3. Fan Controllers:* - Personal Favorite (Lamptron FC-5)

Fan controllers are great if you don't want or need your fans running at full speed all the time. Want to bench and stress, turn those babies up! Want to sleep at night, throttle them back. Fan controllers are also great for trying to find that right Positive/Negative pressure for you case (see section 6 for details) Keep in mind that most fans only pull from 1-7 watts but check your fans specs before hooking them up to your particular fan controller.

*Performance, high watt / channel:*
Performance engineered fan controllers have high enough watt / channel that you can pretty much connect any PC based fan and not worry about frying the controller. If your going with Performance Fans then these controllers are the ones to get. In most cases you can even hookup 2 fans or more per channel.

Rheobus base model gives 20 watt / channel
Rheobus Extreme model gives 30 watts / channel.
*Pretty, but expensive:*
If you want a pretty LCD display style design.

Lamptron FC-5 - 30 watt / channel
*CONTINUED ON NEXT POST...*


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## Shadowclock

*4. TIM a.k.a. Thermal Paste*- Personal Favorite (OCZ Freeze, MX2 or 3, IC7)

I can't say anything better then what BenchmarkReviews has already shown in the below link:

80-way Thermal Paste Shootout

*How to apply TIM* is also covered in the review above.

*Choosing the right TIM* for you? HERE is a guide by Nemesi5.

*TIM Removal:*
When removing TIM you want to make sure all leftover residue is completely gone. Below is another quote from Nemesi5.

Quote:

Materiel used to remove TIM

* ArctiClean - This materiel perfect for removing the TIM off your CPU & Heatsink, it works instantly dissolving the TIM leaving room for another TIM.

* Tuniq T1-R - Just like ArctiClean, very easy to apply. The TIM dissolves very quickly making TIM removal much easier.

* However, if you do not want to purchase the ArtiClean, you can simply use Isopropyl Alcohol commonly known as Rubbing Alcohol to remove the TIM
If you choose to go with (Isopropyl alcohol) Rubbing alcohol make sure it is 80% or higher and wipe it clean and dry with lint free material like a coffee filter.

*5. Fan mounting*

Fan Clips can be used to mount your fans to your CPU Cooler. EXAMPLE

Home-made remedies to mount your CPU cooler:

Make your own fan clips like killa_concept did in THIS post.
Twisty ties can also be used, are cheaper and found in any hardware store.
*6. Positive and Negative Pressure* - Personal Favorite (Positive)

*Positive*

If you have more CFM coming IN, then OUT, you will have hot air cycling in your case waiting to go out, called positive air flow. However, most hot air will be pushed out through your available exhaust fans.

The benefit of having a positive pressure case is that all of your intake air is being cycled in strictly from your intake fans which should have dust filters installed. Therefore, a positive pressure case tends to have much less dust then a Negative pressure case.

*Negative*

If you have more CFM pushing air OUT than IN. This makes a negative airflow.

Basically you need more air OUT, then goes IN using the fans. The additional air needed will be sucked through the mesh and other holes in your case. The benefit, in theory, is that more cold air is being pulled in through the extra gaps and therefore keeping things cooler than a Positive pressure case.

*Don't Go Overboard*

Too much of one pressure can be a bad thing. Too much positive pressure can cause turbulent air inside your case and create pockets of hot air that can't escape in parts of your case. Too much negative pressure can prevent some components from getting any air flow at all. Try to attain a mostly neutral air pressure with a slight pressure change towards the pressure type you want to gain the advantages of that type.

*Simple Pressure Test*

Easiest way to check for what pressure you have is to apply a square of toilet paper to an empty hole on your case (use your watercooling holes if you have them, but any decent sized hole/mesh area where air flow can get through will work) and place the TP over the hole. If the TP is being blown outward then you have positive pressure; if it is being sucked in then you have negative pressure.

*7. Tricks to Better/Quieter Air Flow, CFM and CPU Temps*

*Common Air Flow*

Try to remember that you generally want the Air Flow of your case to run front to back and bottom to top as seen by the picture below:










*Clear Air Flow*
Cut out the mesh on your case where your fans are mounted to and add in some fan guards or if your brave and don't mind losing a finger go commando. Do this mod and watch your CFMs soar and your noise levels drop. I performed this on my own case mod which you can find pictures of HERE.

*Cool and Quiet*
The subject above and below will also help to quiet your system a little by decreasing air turbulence. If your looking for more advice on how to keep your computer more quiet I would like to refer you to Behemoth777's guide HERE.

*Cable Management*
Your best friend when it comes to creating better air flow inside of your case. Shove those wires behind your motherboard tray and make sure your fans have a clear flow through your case. There is so much you can do in regards to managing your cables so I will point you to one of my most watched posts for an idea on how your cables should look. Rate My Cables For specific instructions on how to improve your cables see Deano12345's great guide HERE

*Improve CPU Temps*
Angmaar has a great guide on improving temps via mods directly to your heatsink in his How to: Modify Your Heatsink Guide.
If you are looking for software to stress test and monitor your temperatures go HERE.

*8. Dust Filters*

Dust filters are used on your intake fans to prevent dust from being sucked into your case.EXAMPLE

There is also a cheaper and home made way to make your own dust filter. Panty hoes! That's right, grab your wife's, girlfriend's, strange cousin, or grandma's holey panty hoes and get to modding. This is especially useful for those fans that are oversized that you usually find on the side of some cases such as the HAF 932.

Jmcmtank has a great post with pictures on how to create your own panty hose dust filter HERE

Not sure on how dust filters and mesh will prohibit your CFM? Take a look HERE for actual testing done on different types of mesh and dust filters.

And here is a video guide:







YouTube- Custom Dust Filters Using a Pantyhose
*9. Favorite Vendor List:*

At THIS link you will find a list by OCN members of where to shop online around the world. (Thanks BlankThis)

ChilledPC.co.uk - Gentle Typhoon / Scythe S-Flex / Yate Loon / San Ace (Sanyo Denki)
FrozenCPU.com - IFX-14 / Megahalem / TRUE / Thor's Hammer / Mugen 2 / Dark Knight / OCZ Vendetta 2 / Panaflo / Scythe S-Flex / CM R4 / Yate Loon
Jab-Tech.com - IFX-14 / TRUE / Mugen 2 / Panaflo / Gentle Typhoon / Scythe S-Flex / Yate Loon
Microcenter.com - TRUE / Mugen 2 / Dark Knight / Xig S1283 / OCZ Vendetta 2 / CM Hyper 212+ / Scythe S-Flex / CM R4 / Yate Loon
Newark.com - Panaflo / San Ace(Sanyo Denki)
Newegg.com - Thor's Hammer / Mugen 2 / Dark Knight / Xig S1283 / Panaflo / Scythe S-Flex / CM R4
Performance-PCs.com - IFX-14 / Megahalem / TRUE / Thor's Hammer / Mugen 2 / Dark Knight / Xig S1283 / OCZ Vendetta 2 / CM Hyper 212+ / Panaflo / Gentle Typhoon / Scythe S-Flex / CM R4 / Yate Loon
PetrasTechShop.com - TRUE / Mugen 2 / Panaflo / Scythe S-Flex / Yate Loon
Scythe-usa.com - Mugen 2 / Scythe S-Flex /
SidewinderComputers.com - Megahalem / TRUE / Scythe S-Flex / Lamptron
Xoxide.com - IFX-14 / TRUE / Panaflo / Gentle Typhoon / Scythe S-Flex / CM R4 / Yate Loon
HeatsinkFactory.com - Items list pending
SVC.com - Items list pending
MNPCTech.com - Mod your case and make it look Badass!
Aquatuning
*10. Glossary of Terms*

*CFM* - Cubic Feet per Minute. For our purposes CFM is defined as a unit of measurement of the flow of air that indicates how much volume in cubic feet pass by a stationary point in one minute.

*dBA* - Decibels (A-weighting). A measurement that expresses the magnitude of sound intensity. Some statistics for dBA used for fans can be inaccurate due to the distance of the measuring microphone from a sound source being "forgotten", when measurements are quoted, making the data pretty useless.

*Push / Pull* - Fan configuration that refers to two fans being utilized on a heatsink/radiator so that one fan is pushing air in and one fan pulling the air out.

*Static Pressure* - Static pressure is used to evaluate the amount of impact components (heatsink/radiators) have on the airflow path within a given system. The performance of a fan is defined as the amount of airflow in CFM at a given static pressure. Therefore in order for a fan to overpower the static pressure caused by restrictive heatsinks and radiators, a high static pressure fan is most efficient (see 38mm Performance Fans section). Pa=Pascal is the measurement unit used for Static Pressure. mmH20 is also often given and can be converted to Pa using THIS converter (Thanks Gyro).

*TIM (Thermal Interface Material)* - Also known as thermal paste. This material is used to increase the thermal conductivity of a thermal interface by compensating for the irregular surfaces of the components.

*11. Disclaimer*
*
The lists I provide in this post are of the most popular and well respected brands and models. This is in no way a complete list. If you have a suggestion or addition to the information provided please post here and send a PM so that I will be notified to update this post.

I accept no responsibility whatsoever for anyone using this posts information in any way. All modifications by you are the full responsibility of you. Anything done to your property is done at your own risk. If you happen to find an error, PM me. If I did quote you or utilize your information inappropriately and you don't like this PM me.*


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## boebi

Nice writeup.
+rep


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## UnAimed

hmm looks okay. You should ad some pictures and how to install the tim. Also the thread would need to be constantly updated with the newest best air coolers if it is going to be a sticky.


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## nemesi5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnAimed* 
hmm looks okay. You should ad some pictures and how to install the tim. Also the thread would need to be constantly updated with the newest best air coolers if it is going to be a sticky.


Agreed, thats why I never got mine stickied








Anyways, pretty nice guide, you explain the general areas of air cooling.


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## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boebi* 
Nice writeup.
+rep

Thanks for the Rep









Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnAimed* 
hmm looks okay. You should ad some pictures and how to install the tim. Also the thread would need to be constantly updated with the newest best air coolers if it is going to be a sticky.

Plan on updating and tweaking the guide as time goes by and as I get more requests for changes and updates. Installing TIM request is a good idea...will at least link to a general guide for that if not input my own knowledge. Thanks for the idea +rep EDIT: The link in the TIM section actually has instructions on applying TIM









Quote:


Originally Posted by *nemesi5* 
Agreed, thats why I never got mine stickied








Anyways, pretty nice guide, you explain the general areas of air cooling.

Was very much intended for use as a general guide for sure. Thanks for the props.


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## Shadowclock

Added a bit more info and cleaned up some of the layout. Best way to get this stickied?

Rep + for any additional information you guys might think useful for a General Air Cooling guide.


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## Gyro

It would be nice to have some static pressures listed for any recommended cpu cooler fans.

As alot of specs only show cfm.rpm

Here are few I have found;

xigmatek s1283 stock fan is 1.57mmH2O
DK s1283v stock fan 4.1mmH2O
RS s1283 stock fan 1.516mmH2O

Cooler master R4's 3.09 mmH2O

Gyro


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## Anth0789

Really good info in this thread I think this should be stickied.


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## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gyro* 
It would be nice to have some static pressures listed for any recommended cpu cooler fans.

As alot of specs only show cfm.rpm

Here are few I have found;

xigmatek s1283 stock fan is 1.57mmH2O
DK s1283v stock fan 4.1mmH2O
RS s1283 stock fan 1.516mmH2O

Cooler master R4's 3.09 mmH2O

Gyro

Thanks for looking up some info and for the suggestion Gyro. I will add this to the spreadsheet and try and find the rest. Think I should do a spreadsheet for the Fan section as well?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anth0789* 
Really good info in this thread I think this should be stickied.









Working on talking to a mod to get it stickied...more votes and ratings would help I am sure. Someone rated this guide terrible







(Rating is top right)


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## HughMBeing

Very solid, basic guide. This is just what I need to get my foot in the door.

Many thanks, Shadow.

Rep!


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## Gyro

Here is a link for converting mmH20 to Pascal and/or pascal to mmH20http://www.convertunits.com/from/mmH2O/to/pascal

Gyro


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## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gyro* 
Here is a link for converting mmH20 to Pascal and/or pascal to mmH20http://www.convertunits.com/from/mmH2O/to/pascal

Gyro

Thanks for the link Gyro. Used it to convert a couple more stats.

Added the Fan spreadsheet. I am having a hard time finding the static pressure for the other fans. As you can see I am missing some info here and there for each fan. +rep for any help and findings as always.


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## Chunky_Chimp

Excellent guide. +rep

Just a note, the actual replacement to the 109R1212H1011, the 9G1212*H1011*, is now in stock here*, and they should still have close to 40 fans in stock. Updating the second post with this information would be _fan_tastic.







I've got one on the way since they ship worldwide, and I'll compare it, noise and temperature wise, on all voltages, to my Panaflo U1BX. I should have the time to put up a thread with the comparison, then you can reference it as the Thor's Hammer is as fond of high-pressure fans as the TRUE.

*They will pin it for 2 pounds extra, and sleeve it for 3 pounds extra, just check the "Customers who bought this also bought" links below the description on the product page.


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## awaizy

Nice guide. It'd be nice to see more examples of high end fans and such, but that should come in time.
+Rep


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## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
Excellent guide. +rep

Just a note, the actual replacement to the 109R1212H1011, the 9G1212*H1011*, is now in stock here*, and they should still have close to 40 fans in stock. Updating the second post with this information would be _fan_tastic.







I've got one on the way since they ship worldwide, and I'll compare it, noise and temperature wise, on all voltages, to my Panaflo U1BX. I should have the time to put up a thread with the comparison, then you can reference it as the Thor's Hammer is as fond of high-pressure fans as the TRUE.

*They will pin it for 2 pounds extra, and sleeve it for 3 pounds extra, just check the "Customers who bought this also bought" links below the description on the product page.

Modified and added section for a list of Favorite Vendors. Thanks for finding and sharing the site for San Ace fans Chunky. Not many people would do that. +rep for you as well.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *awaizy* 
Nice guide. It'd be nice to see more examples of high end fans and such, but that should come in time.
+Rep

Not sure how many more examples of fans I want to add. I am trying to stick with the most popular/best fans and coolers used by OCN members as these would be the most suggested if someone were to ask in another new post. If you do have some to add to the list I would be glad to take a look at it as a possibility.


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## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
Modified and added section for a list of Favorite Vendors. Thanks for finding and sharing the site for San Ace fans Chunky. Not many people would do that. +rep for you as well.

Thanks, although the point was to modify it so instead of the Newark link to the H101 (ribbed) you could have the link to the new H1011 (ribless, the new "Fan of the Gods" if you ask me). The vendors list looks good, though.


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## dennyb

Nice guide --but a bit of misinformation on the Dark Knight and S1283
DK=89.45 CFM
S1283=56.3 CFM

Nice to know for selecting one over the other

reps


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## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
Thanks, although the point was to modify it so instead of the Newark link to the H101 (ribbed) you could have the link to the new H1011 (ribless, the new "Fan of the Gods" if you ask me). The vendors list looks good, though.

Good point Chunky...would be better to at least link someone that has them available.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *dennyb* 
Nice guide --but a bit of misinformation on the Dark Knight and S1283
DK=89.45 CFM
S1283=56.3 CFM

Nice to know for selecting one over the other

reps

Caught this earlier...think I fixed it hours before your post but maybe something didn't update quick enough?


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## dominique120

Nice quide
+1


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## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
Good point Chunky...would be better to at least link someone that has them available.









Yup. They should still have stock for a while, even with the water cooling nuts drooling themselves to death while clutching their credit cards.


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## getbigtony

mugen 2 is $38 iirc at newegg; always has been
s1283 has a weaker fan than the dark knight; copper revealed so it'll conduct better, but may slowly corrode


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## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *getbigtony* 
mugen 2 is $38 iirc at newegg; always has been
s1283 has a weaker fan than the dark knight; copper revealed so it'll conduct better, but may slowly corrode

All of the prices shown are not exact hence the "~" symbol which generally meant "about". Shipping, time, and destination are big factors in cost so a semi-accurate median has to be given.

Your talking about my comment on it being the exact same cooler right? Yea I fixed the fan data in the spreadsheet and forgot to fix the comment. +rep thanks for pointing it out


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## FromHell

Er The Mugen 2 is 36 bucks at the egg.


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## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FromHell* 
Er The Mugen 2 is 36 bucks at the egg.

I'll quote my own post from the post right above yours...prices go up and down. I am giving an approximation.

EDIT: By the way, its $47.60 with tax/shipping so my quote was close either way.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
All of the prices shown are not exact hence the "~" symbol which generally meant "about". Shipping, time, and destination are big factors in cost so a semi-accurate median has to be given.


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## Shadowclock

Any one have suggestions?


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## Raiden911

G00d info! Thank you.


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## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *raiden911*


G00d info! Thank you.










Thanks for the rep Raiden







yourself









Anyone have anymore info they would like added? Suggestions/requests?


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## MasterKromm

Nice guide. I think discussing the actual bearing types and possible consequences would prove useful too... Something similar to this:

Quote:











*Sleeve bearing - horizontal orientation*

When a sleeve bearing fan is mounted horizontally, the weight of the fan assembly is supported by thrust bearings at the shaft ends. Lubrication flows out of the sleeve bearing resulting in faster wear.









*Sleeve bearing - vertical orientation*

When a sleeve bearing fan is mounted vertically, the fan assembly is supported by the length of the bearing and lubrication is distributed more evenly.

Ball bearings are pre-loaded so the weight of the blade assembly is distributed through the ball bearings regardless of the orientation.


Oh and I haven't had time to play with my new CPU cooler but I picked up Cooler Master's Hyper 212 Plus for $24 shipped at buy.com a while back. It's currently $30 shipped. Here's a review of the little unit by HWcanucks:

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...er-review.html


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## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MasterKromm*


Nice guide. I think discussing the actual bearing types and possible consequences would prove useful too... Something similar to this:

Oh and I haven't had time to play with my new CPU cooler but I picked up Cooler Master's Hyper 212 Plus for $24 shipped at buy.com a while back. It's currently $30 shipped. Here's a review of the little unit by HWcanucks:

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...er-review.html


Might be a great addition to the fan section MasterKromm. You will have to give me some time (maybe another week) to get it all in and pretty. I am getting married this Sunday so revamp incoming soon. Any additional info that you want to provide would be appreciated.

Thanks again +rep


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## aph

I have a silly question about case fans. I'm looking at getting 2 of the San Ace 120 109R1212M1021's. The specs are on this page: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3432/...9d8357e8_b.jpg

I can't see if this is an exhaust or intake fan. Can I just turn them whichever way I want them to face and still mount them? I've never used aftermarket fans before so I'm clueless.


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## aph

Also, my motherboard has, besides the CPU PWM fan header and the north bridge non-PWM fan header, 3 more fan headers for case fans-- 1 PWM, 2 voltage-modulated. Can I assume that the mobo will still ramp up and down the non-PWM fans the same way it would the PWM fans under load, as long as they are hooked up to the mobo's voltage modulated headers?

Finally, can I daisy chain fans hooked up to these headers or is that only for fans hooked up directly to the power supply? I want to hook up more case fans than just the 3 the mobo supports (top, back, side, and 2 front, so 5 total) and need to find some way to keep them quiet at night (no load.) Daisy chaining them to the mobo would solve that problem because they would be modulated down.


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## aph

If I add a San Ace 120 (non-PWM, I believe they all are) to my TRUE, can I hook it up to the voltage modulated fan header on the mobo and leave the CPU fan header empty? Or is the mobo gonna start throwing errors and refuse to boot?


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## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aph*


I have a silly question about case fans. I'm looking at getting 2 of the San Ace 120 109R1212M1021's. The specs are on this page: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3432/...9d8357e8_b.jpg

I can't see if this is an exhaust or intake fan. Can I just turn them whichever way I want them to face and still mount them? I've never used aftermarket fans before so I'm clueless.


All fans can be flipped one way or the other to be exhaust or intake fans.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aph*


Also, my motherboard has, besides the CPU PWM fan header and the north bridge non-PWM fan header, 3 more fan headers for case fans-- 1 PWM, 2 voltage-modulated. Can I assume that the mobo will still ramp up and down the non-PWM fans the same way it would the PWM fans under load, as long as they are hooked up to the mobo's voltage modulated headers?

Finally, can I daisy chain fans hooked up to these headers or is that only for fans hooked up directly to the power supply? I want to hook up more case fans than just the 3 the mobo supports (top, back, side, and 2 front, so 5 total) and need to find some way to keep them quiet at night (no load.) Daisy chaining them to the mobo would solve that problem because they would be modulated down.


In regards to how many fans you can put on your specific mobo you need to see how many amps/watts can be pulled from your mobo to power the fans (see your user manual or info online about your mobo) When you are talking about performance fans like the San Ace it is always better to plug them directly into your PSU. You can daisy chain the fans but do it only through the PSU because of the power needed.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aph*


If I add a San Ace 120 (non-PWM, I believe they all are) to my TRUE, can I hook it up to the voltage modulated fan header on the mobo and leave the CPU fan header empty? Or is the mobo gonna start throwing errors and refuse to boot?


Your mobo might get errors or fry your fan due to you attempting to pull too much power from it. In reality your best option is to get a fan controller. If your looking for something cheap then go with the base model Rheobus I linked. Read up on the fan controller section and it should be all the help you need for it.


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## aph

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


In regards to how many fans you can put on your specific mobo you need to see how many amps/watts can be pulled from your mobo to power the fans (see your user manual or info online about your mobo)


I can't find that info in the product brief or technical specs:

Product brief
Technical specs

Any ideas?


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## MasterKromm

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aph*


I can't find that info in the product brief or technical specs:

Product brief
Technical specs

Any ideas?


General rule of thumb (if not specified in the manual) when using a fan header on a quality mobo make certain the fan draws less than 1 amp... You're always better off using a fan controller or just running directly off the PSU. However,worst case scenario you damage the fan header. The mobo will still be functional otherwise.









@ shadowclock

I'll give it some thought and edit this post if I think of anything else worth mentioning...

I wish you happiness with both the wedding and marriage, you must be brave...

Each and every time I've ever heard the M word I've bolted. Honestly, it could be two strangers on the street talking and I'd still run. Heck it took me three days just to log back onto OCN after reading what you wrote!!!














(only joking)


----------



## mfb412

i suggest someone finds the coolermaster hyper N620's reviews, apparently it's a bit better than even the 212+


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MasterKromm*


Nice guide. I think discussing the actual bearing types and possible consequences would prove useful too... Something similar to this:

Oh and I haven't had time to play with my new CPU cooler but I picked up Cooler Master's Hyper 212 Plus for $24 shipped at buy.com a while back. It's currently $30 shipped. Here's a review of the little unit by HWcanucks:

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...er-review.html


MasterKromm,

I have added some info on bearings. Hopefully that will be enough general information for the masses to allow them to make the right choice. I don't want to go into too much detail as that isn't what my guide is about. Too much info and everyone will just TLDR (Too Long Didn't Read).

I took a look at that review for the Hyper 212...it looks quite a bit off to me. In the review at 3.8Ghz and 1.45v they have the Megahalem beating the Xig S1283 by only 5 degree under load. That is just impossible as many OCN members see a much larger jump than that in their tests. Has me very skeptical and I would like to wait for more OCN members to chime in with personal experience on that one.

Thanks again for your input and suggestions!


----------



## Yogi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MasterKromm*


Nice guide. I think discussing the actual bearing types and possible consequences would prove useful too... Something similar to this


+rep for this, very helpful. So would it matter if Sflexs or Panaflos were mounted vertically or horizontally?


----------



## MasterKromm

The only fans you really need to worry about their orientation are sleeve bearing. Even then it's not a big deal, @ ~40K MTBF if the number were halved due to horizontal orientation that's still a long time unless you run your PC 24/7... Scythe Sflex fans use Sony's "patent pending" FDB(fluid dynamic bearing) they are incredibly quiet for the amount of air they move and last forever. As for the panaflos in general? I have never owned one so I really can't comment, but (IMHO) depending on application it's either scythe sflex, Sanyo Denki San Ace or bust.

*tangent* Once upon a time, long ago and far away, I exclusively bought the cheapest fans which almost always worked out to be sleeve bearing... Long story short never skimp on the fans, ever. There's just no comparing a sflex to say a yate loon. Even if the specs read the same, IE 30dB(A), the sounds/noises are completely different and for me anyway YL high speed and medium speed fans are unbearable. */end tangent*


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Panaflos are great, really, they work in any orientation and work very well. For me if you're getting a Panaflo, it's either the L1BX for quiet operations without a controller, or if you DO have a controller, the M1BX or U1BX. I'd take the U1BX over everything but San Aces, really; the U1BX is somehow quieter than BOTH of my H1BXes, including at full speed.

As for San Aces, well, I gotta say, the 9G1212H1011 lives up to all the hype I've been trying to give it in the past. The only downside is I somehow got 2-3 degrees better overall from the Panaflo, but other than that, the San Ace, despite being only 100RPM slower than the U1BX, it's VASTLY quieter and smoother at ALL voltages (in fact it sounds better though not quieter than my S-Flex G, which I never expected), it's built like a tank, and the sleeving/heatshrinking that the shop did is top-notch.


----------



## Yogi

Thanks for the replies.
Chunky whats the difference between the M1J and the M1BX?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

The M1J doesn't have an RPM sensor, the M1BX does.


----------



## honk_honk

I accidentally ordered some silent Panaflos from Xixiode because I thought they were the medium types. Would it be possible to use both in a push pull set up, I have a fan controller.


----------



## goodolsen

Might want to remove xoxide.com from the first page, as they are going out of business.

@honk - as long as they fit the cooler you should be fine using them in push/pull.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
Panaflos are great, really, they work in any orientation and work very well. For me if you're getting a Panaflo, it's either the L1BX for quiet operations without a controller, or if you DO have a controller, the M1BX or U1BX. I'd take the U1BX over everything but San Aces, really; the U1BX is somehow quieter than BOTH of my H1BXes, including at full speed.

As for San Aces, well, I gotta say, the 9G1212H1011 lives up to all the hype I've been trying to give it in the past. The only downside is I somehow got 2-3 degrees better overall from the Panaflo, but other than that, the San Ace, despite being only 100RPM slower than the U1BX, it's VASTLY quieter and smoother at ALL voltages (in fact it sounds better though not quieter than my S-Flex G, which I never expected), it's built like a tank, and the sleeving/heatshrinking that the shop did is top-notch.

I couldn't agree more







The sleeving that Chilled PC did with our 9G-H1011 is really very pleasing to the eye


----------



## ceemuk

Does anybody have Sharkoon 120mm 2400RPM\\81CFM fans?

Thinking about using them for my entire system (1x intake 1x exhaust 1x CPU) in conjunction with my fan controller but can't find the watts\\amps specs of them.

Trying to see if they use 3 pin connectors aswell even though I don't need RPM signal as my fan controller doesn't display RPM. As long as it isn't molex.


----------



## Loserdave

Anyone ever tried Liquid solder as a thermal adhesive?
I't can be picked up at autozone

OR i have access to copper roof paint with real copper in it. I was thinking that might make a good thermal adhesive.
Any experience with these?


----------



## sLowEnd

You're about $8 too high on the Mugen 2 price.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goodolsen* 
Might want to remove xoxide.com from the first page, as they are going out of business.

@honk - as long as they fit the cooler you should be fine using them in push/pull.

Removed Xoxide, thanks.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sLowEnd* 
You're about $8 too high on the Mugen 2 price.

Dropped $5 off the price on the list. Prices go up and down so I took the mean of the vendors I found and rounded.

On another note: I added Angmaar's guide on improving CPU temps via lapping and heatsink mods.

+ rep to you both and to Angmaar.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
Removed Xoxide, thanks.

Actually, Xoxide is under new ownership and back in business, so go ahead and add them back.


----------



## Shadowclock

Damnit lol...thats what I get for jumping the gun and not giving it some time.

Just got back from my week long honeymoon so I am out of the "know" at the moment.

Thanks Chunky...will get it back in.


----------



## gymenii

Just a thought... you might want to add a few words under "Tricks" about how to monitor fan speed and list a few monitoring apps.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

King of Budget Coolers imo: Cooler Master Hyper 212 *Plus*

4 heat pipe HDT, push/pull, and bolt-down kit.

$20 before shipping at provantage]


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gymenii*


Just a thought... you might want to add a few words under "Tricks" about how to monitor fan speed and list a few monitoring apps.


Will look into this for monitoring speeds and temp monitoring apps...I might add these in when I try to compile some of the other stickies into my guide. I want my guide to be as comprehensive as possible considering some of the other stickies are very dated.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*


King of Budget Coolers imo: Cooler Master Hyper 212 *Plus*

4 heat pipe HDT, push/pull, and bolt-down kit.

$20 before shipping at provantage]


I am hesitant to add it since the reviews I have seen have put it a good 5 degrees over what the vendetta does. I do agree it has been selling for much lower these days but I would like others to throw in their opinions on that specific cooler as well before I add it. Source


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Will look into this for monitoring speeds and temp monitoring apps...I might add these in when I try to compile some of the other stickies into my guide. I want my guide to be as comprehensive as possible considering some of the other stickies are very dated.

I am hesitant to add it since the reviews I have seen have put it a good 5 degrees over what the vendetta does. I do agree it has been selling for much lower these days but I would like others to throw in their opinions on that specific cooler as well before I add it. Source


Yep well true, but they tested it with the Cooler Master stock fan, and no push/pull setup. A guy on another forum did 2 yate loon mediums in push pull and has gotten pretty good results.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*


King of Budget Coolers imo: Cooler Master Hyper 212 *Plus*

4 heat pipe HDT, push/pull, and bolt-down kit.

$20 before shipping at provantage]


Lars, I added the Hyper 212+ after someone gave me a review where it beat out the Dark Knight....it might have been a situational review as I don't feel that people here on OCN are getting THAT good of results but the review was for the DK and they had the 212 beating it so it couldn't have been biased unless they just wanted to bash on Xigmatek. Whatever the case may be I feel it is a good contender and great bang/buck. Source

Grats on your 1st +rep


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
Lars, I added the Hyper 212+ after someone gave me a review where it beat out the Dark Knight....it might have been a situational review as I don't feel that people here on OCN are getting THAT good of results but the review was for the DK and they had the 212 beating it so it couldn't have been biased unless they just wanted to bash on Xigmatek. Whatever the case may be I feel it is a good contender and great bang/buck. Source

Grats on your 1st +rep

















Thanks!


----------



## CrysisCore

What fans should I get for my Megahalems? Do I need to get the clips too?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

That depends on what your motherboard and RAM are, so we know if there would be enough clearance for a 38mm thick fan.


----------



## CrysisCore

I am getting the G.Skill Ripjaws 4GB (2x2GB) and EVGA P55 LE.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CrysisCore*


What fans should I get for my Megahalems? Do I need to get the clips too?


San Ace 9G-H1011







Here: http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/prod...oducts_id=1353

And yes you need to get the 38mm fan clips for this fan.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

You'll probably only be able to fit one fan on the "pull" side, then. In that case, you should be able to get by with a GentleTyphoon AP-15, or the San Ace kevin posted if you don't mind ordering 38mm clips.


----------



## Tator Tot

I have a question, this guide lists the Delta AFB1212SH as having more static pressure than the San Ace H101, so should I pick up 2 of the Delta's for a Megahalem or is my older information of the San Ace being the best still true?


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I have a question, this guide lists the Delta AFB1212SH as having more static pressure than the San Ace H101, so should I pick up 2 of the Delta's for a Megahalem or is my older information of the San Ace being the best still true?

I found that Delta very interesting too. I have read several good "reps" for the Delta fan from here and at xtremesystems, but IS it "better" then the San Ace...I am not sure, I haven't seen anyone I trust put a good review together with these two fans. Every review I have seen for fans puts San Ace at the top when it comes to static pressure, undervolting, dba, and CFM as the all around best fan. The Deltas DO have better static pressure listed even as a 25mm fan which is amazing if true but again I haven't seen any real reviews on it.


----------



## Tator Tot

That's really odd, and I want information on this. Sadly I don't have the income to test at the moment.

Megahalem (Black) & AM# bracket cost me $80 alone.









Oh well, I'll probably just stick with the San Ace H101's then.


----------



## no1Joeno1

Is ChilledPC down for anyone else?

It was down last night as well, and came back up at like 11.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *no1Joeno1*


Is ChilledPC down for anyone else?

It was down last night as well, and came back up at like 11.










Appears to be down for me as well.


----------



## CrysisCore

I just got http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/prod...oducts_id=1353 and I got to say the fan is huge! I just want to make sure it was the correct one because I never have seen this big fan for a heatsink. It is also very heavy and I want to make sure if it will fit in the case.
Antec 902 Case
Gigabyte P55-UD3R Motherboard
Megahalems Rev.B


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Are you asking if the heatsink will fit in the 902? Because that's what it sounds like.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
Are you asking if the heatsink will fit in the 902? Because that's what it sounds like.

I think he is asking if the Mega+San Ace will fit his mobo. Best place to ask that is the Prolimatech Club.

But your best option is to check the Prolimatech Club on the 1st page is a dimensions chart for the Mega, use it and measure the distance from CPU to RAM and see if Mega + 38mm will fit. You can always mod the fan clips so that the fan sits "on-top" of the RAM.

Again this question of "will it fit" comes up...I swear I am going to make that thread soon =P


----------



## Autox

Just wondering why you don't recommend the Zalman zm-f3 fan? By the review that you linked, it kick serious arse, not to mention that its only $5-6.

Also I believe you gentle typhoon CF/M stat is wrong. Its listed at 98 CM/hour which is a lot less than 98 CF/M


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Autox* 
Just wondering why you don't recommend the Zalman zm-f3 fan? By the review that you linked, it kick serious arse, not to mention that its only $5-6.

Also I believe you gentle typhoon CF/M stat is wrong. Its listed at 98 CM/hour which is a lot less than 98 CF/M

I have contemplated it although it has not been very popular here at OCN...not that I have heard anything bad about it but I am hesitant because I haven't heard anything. Any personal experience with them?

Also, fixed gentle typhoon. +rep and thanks!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Autox* 
Just wondering why you don't recommend the Zalman zm-f3 fan? By the review that you linked, it kick serious arse, not to mention that its only $5-6.

Also I believe you gentle typhoon CF/M stat is wrong. Its listed at 98 CM/hour which is a lot less than 98 CF/M

No, the Scythe GT-15's are 57CF/M

Let google do the math


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
No, the Scythe GT-15's are 57CF/M

Let google do the math

Beat ya to it and fixed it Tator







Except I rounded up to 58


----------



## Autox

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
I have contemplated it although it has not been very popular here at OCN...not that I have heard anything bad about it but I am hesitant because I haven't heard anything. Any personal experience with them?

Also, fixed gentle typhoon. +rep and thanks!









I bought six ZM-F3 fans for about $5.5 each based entirely on the recommendation of that review. Figure I couldn't go wrong given how cheap they were. Should be here next wk. I'll test them out with my new Megahalem. I also got a couple of ultra kaze 2k coming so I can compare them. I'll post the results.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Autox* 
I bought six ZM-F3 fans for about $5.5 each based entirely on the recommendation of that review. Figure I couldn't go wrong given how cheap they were. Should be here next wk. I'll test them out with my new Megahalem. I also got a couple of ultra kaze 2k coming so I can compare them. I'll post the results.

PM me when you make the thread...don't want to miss out on it


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
Beat ya to it and fixed it Tator







Except I rounded up to 58


















It's alright.

I love my GT15's. Probably my favorite fans of all time. Though, they are expensive.

Petra's Yate Loon high speeds are probably the best buy on the market right now. They just need to be in stock. But 4x120mm for $19.50 was just an amazing deal. For cases, rads, or heatsinks they are good.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
I have contemplated it although *it has not been very popular here at OCN*

Yeah, I don't get why it's not something a lot of us use here. It's a superb fan at a VERY good price with equally good availability worldwide, and it performs very well in open air and on a radiator while maintaining a good noise profile. I guess the only reason I'm not using one is because I hadn't noticed it in Vapor's review until after I'd bought the H1BXes and the S-Flex G.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
Yeah, I don't get why it's not something a lot of us use here. It's a superb fan at a VERY good price with equally good availability worldwide, and it performs very well in open air and on a radiator while maintaining a good noise profile. I guess the only reason I'm not using one is because I hadn't noticed it in Vapor's review until after I'd bought the H1BXes and the S-Flex G.

I still think High Speed Yate's from Petra's are a deal.

The 4Pack is worth every penny.


----------



## IEATFISH

For fan covers and other sorts of those things, you should add mnpctech.com.


----------



## CrysisCore

I dont know which way should I install the fan on the Megahalems. Should I do pull or push? Which side is which?


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CrysisCore* 
I dont know which way should I install the fan on the Megahalems. Should I do pull or push? Which side is which?

Push and you can look at my mod link in my sig and see my San Ace in push or go to the Prolimatech club and see what everyone else did. Pictures of the members are all over.


----------



## yeah123

thnx for the info


----------



## vinzend

what's the best 120mm fans? considering performance (cool and noise) and price..
for radiator and cases.. rad, dont need LED, case, prefer LED..


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vinzend*


what's the best 120mm fans? considering performance (cool and noise) and price..
for radiator and cases.. rad, dont need LED, case, prefer LED..










The newer San Ace that I listed. (2nd one) As per the review that I linked from Vapor.


----------



## vinzend

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
The newer San Ace that I listed. (2nd one) As per the review that I linked from Vapor.

dang no stores selling it in canada!









how bout cooler master 90cfm ?


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vinzend*


dang no stores selling it in canada!









how bout cooler master 90cfm ?


If your looking for cheap fans that are LED and do decent on radiators then I would go with the High Speed Yates in the guide.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

There aren't any high-speed LED Yates, though...


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
There aren't any high-speed LED Yates, though...









Well, only 88CFM...not "high" to some, but that's as high as 25mm Yates go.

JAB-TECH


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Interesting. Too bad it's only at Jab-Tech.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
Interesting. Too bad it's only at Jab-Tech.

Yea they sell them at FrozenCPU and probably a couple other places but the fact that Petras is the only one that has "genuine" yates is unfortunate...they still are damn good fans just not AS great quality.


----------



## vinzend

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
If your looking for cheap fans that are LED and do decent on radiators then I would go with the High Speed Yates in the guide.

oh geez, no yateloons as well.. canada is ridiculous..








what stores in US that ship to Canada?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
Yea they sell them at FrozenCPU and probably a couple other places but the fact that Petras is the only one that has "genuine" yates is unfortunate...they still are damn good fans just not AS great quality.

Actually, Aquatuning has "genuine" Yates, as well, but they're more expensive than Petras (though they do ship worldwide).


----------



## vinzend

ive emailed petra store and san ace is out of stock for a while..









so which ones? big typhoon? panaflo?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vinzend*


ive emailed petra store and san ace is out of stock for a while..









so which ones? big typhoon? panaflo?


Delta AFB's have more static pressure. Panaflo's have more static pressure than they do though. So for Heatsink/RAD they'd be better.


----------



## vinzend

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Delta AFB's have more static pressure. Panaflo's have more static pressure than they do though. So for Heatsink/RAD they'd be better.


panaflo then?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vinzend*


panaflo then?


Would be your next best bet.


----------



## vinzend

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Would be your next best bet.










it should be 120mm right for rad?

damn the ultra high speed is soo loud..


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vinzend* 
it should be 120mm right for rad?

damn the ultra high speed is soo loud..









Depends on the RAD

120, 240, 360, & 480.

All use 120mm fans, and either 120mmx25mm fans or 120mmx38mm fans.

They also have 120mmx55mm, 120mmx20mm, & 120mmx32mm fans.

Any will work, but 120x25 & 120x38 are the most common sizes.


----------



## Revenance

Thanks for the info on fans, helped quite a bit.

+ Rep


----------



## vinzend

how good is the yateloon low speed one? ncix is having bundle deal..
5 for $30! im thinking to make it case fans.. or antec 1200 (or cosmos) fans are better / same?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

It's great if you don't have a fan controller.


----------



## vinzend

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
It's great if you don't have a fan controller.









what do u mean? how if i buy a fan controller?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vinzend* 
what do u mean? how if i buy a fan controller?

If you do get a fan controller, then medium or high-speed Yates. What I mean is, the low-speed Yate performs well at full speed while being quiet, so you won't need a controller for it.


----------



## vinzend

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
If you do get a fan controller, then medium or high-speed Yates. What I mean is, the low-speed Yate performs well at full speed while being quiet, so you won't need a controller for it.

medium / high speed needs fan controller to perform max?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vinzend* 
medium / high speed needs fan controller to perform max?

Something like that. If you want more speed, turn them up. If you don't need so much airflow, you can turn them down. Pretty simple.


----------



## vinzend

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
Something like that. If you want more speed, turn them up. If you don't need so much airflow, you can turn them down. Pretty simple.

i will always strive for low deg..









ok i'll buy yateloon low speed then.. i can use it for my rad (if havent got san ace/panaflo/gentle typhoon) or for my case..

5 for $30..


----------



## mav2000

I think its time to add the Baram to the first list....


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mav2000*


I think its time to add the Baram to the first list....


Do you have any backup information from reviewers and OCN members? I am very open minded to adding new components but I require some reviews and not just from commercialized venues. Let me know


----------



## CrysisCore

I am going to build a i7 920 next week.
Is this the best air cool setup?
- 2x http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/prod...oducts_id=1353
- http://www.crazypc.com/store/merchan...gahalem-508600
- 2x http://www.crazypc.com/store/merchan...Category_Code=
Anything else I need to add to have the best air cool setup or should I go with water cooling? I don't want to lap. I don't care how loud the fans are.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nafljhy* 
*Cheapest CPU Only Option:*
CPU*: XSPC Delta V3 - *$44.95*
Pump*: DD Db-1 - *$42.95*
Rad*: Swiftech 220 Rad - *$37.95* - Choose your barbs here. (It will save you $1)
Barbs: 2x Fatboys - Select BP G1/4 1/2" Fittings - *$4*
T-block*: Â½" Nylon T -*$1.35*
Tubing: 10ft durelene - *$4.50*
Fans: 3x Yate Loons - *$9.90*
Misc: PT-Nuke *$2.50*

Total: *$149.10*

Will this push/pull fit in a EVGA X58 Classified motherboard? The Megahalems was sitting on top of my RAM in my i5 build.

EDIT: ChilledPC doesn't have the San Ace fan







.


----------



## mav2000

This is what I have...although its only compared to the OCZ Vendetta2 and the stock cooler.:

http://www.techenclave.com/reviews-a...ew-149355.html


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CrysisCore*


I am going to build a i7 920 next week.
Is this the best air cool setup?
- 2x http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/prod...oducts_id=1353
- http://www.crazypc.com/store/merchan...gahalem-508600
- 2x http://www.crazypc.com/store/merchan...Category_Code=
Anything else I need to add to have the best air cool setup or should I go with water cooling? I don't want to lap. I don't care how loud the fans are.

Will this push/pull fit in a EVGA X58 Classified motherboard? The Megahalems was sitting on top of my RAM in my i5 build.

EDIT: ChilledPC doesn't have the San Ace fan







.


You got the best CPU air cooling possible there









Will it fit...you might want to check out the Prolimatech Club and ask around or look for people that have your board in there sig and show pictures of what they got. I will take a look and post here if I find anything myself. hombredelassrtas has the EVGAx58 Classified and a Megahalem. Shoot him a PM.

On a side note I wouldn't suggest a push/pull for the Mega as Push is enough (I did state this in my guide).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mav2000*


This is what I have...although its only compared to the OCZ Vendetta2 and the stock cooler.:

http://www.techenclave.com/reviews-a...ew-149355.html


That performance isn't quite enough let it in IMO.

First, 5c difference (from what I can tell) below the Vendetta 2; not bad I will need someone else to chime in on that.

Second, the price without a fan is a little high for something that is supposed to be in a budget range of coolers so the price/performance is a little higher than I would like.

+ rep for the research and if you haven't already done so add your review into OCN's reviews to get that under your belt/rep.


----------



## mav2000

Thanks...will add it to the list soon.

From the reviews I have seen its about a degree over or under the TRUE. Unfortunately I dont have a TRUE with me right away or I might have checked it myself.


----------



## CrysisCore

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
You got the best CPU air cooling possible there









Will it fit...you might want to check out the Prolimatech Club and ask around or look for people that have your board in there sig and show pictures of what they got. I will take a look and post here if I find anything myself. hombredelassrtas has the EVGAx58 Classified and a Megahalem. Shoot him a PM.

On a side note I wouldn't suggest a push/pull for the Mega as Push is enough (I did state this in my guide).

Well I wanted the Push/Pull config to have lowest temperatures even if it was 1-2 C lower. But I just email CrazyPC to remove a fan clip from my order and they did







. But there isn't any San Ace fans available and I want to build this as soon as possible.


----------



## vinzend

Look what i got today :



i only need 1 of it to push air through mugen 2 to make i7 below 60c load..
before i used scythe stock fan and it's always above 65..


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vinzend*


Look what i got today :

i only need 1 of it to push air through mugen 2 to make i7 below 60c load..
before i used scythe stock fan and it's always above 65..










That is sexy!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *CrysisCore*


Well I wanted the Push/Pull config to have lowest temperatures even if it was 1-2 C lower. But I just email CrazyPC to remove a fan clip from my order and they did







. But there isn't any San Ace fans available and I want to build this as soon as possible.


Sure they are: http://www.newark.com/sanyo-denki/9g...Ntt=9G1212H101


----------



## mav2000

Hey Vinzend which model is that? Can u link me to that.


----------



## Crunkles

Is the Mugen 2 worth putting in to the system listed in my sig? I'm looking in to doing some OCing and since I'm new to it I'm not sure if it's too big to fit into my case haha. My case is about 8.1" wide and the Mugen 2 is about 6.2" in height, so I don't know if it'll be too tight of a fit with everything in there. I just recently ordered my GPU, CPU, mobo and sound card so haven't received it all yet so I'm just speaking from looking at the specs. Anyone have any experience with these parts? (System sig. is what I'm referring to)


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crunkles*


Is the Mugen 2 worth putting in to the system listed in my sig? I'm looking in to doing some OCing and since I'm new to it I'm not sure if it's too big to fit into my case haha. My case is about 8.1" wide and the Mugen 2 is about 6.2" in height, so I don't know if it'll be too tight of a fit with everything in there. I just recently ordered my GPU, CPU, mobo and sound card so haven't received it all yet so I'm just speaking from looking at the specs. Anyone have any experience with these parts? (System sig. is what I'm referring to)


Best bet is to take a look at THIS thread of the Mugen 2 club. Ask around there and they should be able to tell you specifically if it will fit for you. Sounds like you have the height room for it the big question is whether you have the other dimensional room for it. That is where the Mugen 2 sometimes does not fit, height usually isn't the problem because it is about the same height as other after market coolers.


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Best bet is to take a look at THIS thread of the Mugen 2 club. Ask around there and they should be able to tell you specifically if it will fit for you. Sounds like you have the height room for it the big question is whether you have the other dimensional room for it. That is where the Mugen 2 sometimes does not fit, height usually isn't the problem because it is about the same height as other after market coolers.


Sweet deal, thanks for the link







+rep for the help.


----------



## CrysisCore

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
Sure they are: http://www.newark.com/sanyo-denki/9g...Ntt=9G1212H101

Are you sure? I was looking at those, but it has 1 one missing at the end. Can you check if they are the same because this is the only place that has it since Chilled PC won't have them until December 18, 2009.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CrysisCore* 
Are you sure? I was looking at those, but it has 1 one missing at the end. Can you check if they are the same because this is the only place that has it since Chilled PC won't have them until December 18, 2009.

Those are actually the newer San Ace H101's which have better air flow, same noise level, and greater static pressure.


----------



## CrysisCore

This is the product number in ChilledPC: 9G1212H1011
Newark: 9G1212H101

In the first post, Shadow is linking to the ChilledPC.

http://db.sanyodenki.co.jp/product_d...ing_dcfan.html has both, but the specs are the same.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

*They are not the same fan.* I don't know how many times I've said it now. The H101 is ribbed (closed corners), the H1011 is ribless (open corners). It's a minor difference but there *is* a difference. If you buy the H101 from Newark, you will have to pin it yourself as it comes with bare wires. Chilled PC offers to pin and sleeve the H1011.


----------



## vinzend

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
That is sexy!









Sure they are: http://www.newark.com/sanyo-denki/9g...Ntt=9G1212H101











Quote:


Originally Posted by *mav2000* 
Hey Vinzend which model is that? Can u link me to that.

http://ncix.com/products/?sku=35365&...Bundle%20Deals

5 for $30 man..


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


*They are not the same fan.* I don't know how many times I've said it now. The H101 is ribbed (closed corners), the H1011 is ribless (open corners). It's a minor difference but there *is* a difference. If you buy the H101 from Newark, you will have to pin it yourself as it comes with bare wires. Chilled PC offers to pin and sleeve the H1011.


Lol, yeah you've said it a ton of times now.

Shadowclock, can you update your initial post to include that minor difference?


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*


Lol, yeah you've said it a ton of times now.

Shadowclock, can you update your initial post to include that minor difference?










BAH...sorry Chunky...didn't mean it in that context...don't want you to yell at anyone else for my miscalculation


----------



## Damir Poljak

O boy, I am having a headache from all that thinking how to cool my PC from case to CPU... and on top of everything, I still do not have all the components for my PC. I have to find silent fan for megahalems, probably panaflo medium speed on some speed controller and place all the fans I have into my Cosmos 1000. I think I am going nuts!


----------



## vinzend

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Damir Poljak* 
O boy, I am having a headache from all that thinking how to cool my PC from case to CPU... and on top of everything, I still do not have all the components for my PC. I have to find silent fan for megahalems, probably panaflo medium speed on some speed controller and place all the fans I have into my Cosmos 1000. I think I am going nuts!









yateloon low speed.. just bought 10, applied 1 on my mugen 2 and i cant hear the dam* thing..









only my vga fan that's bothering me..


----------



## Damir Poljak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vinzend* 
yateloon low speed.. just bought 10, applied 1 on my mugen 2 and i cant hear the dam* thing..









only my vga fan that's bothering me..









46.9cfm @25dB? Isn't it a little weak? I need at least 57cfm for megahalems.
And I am still having problems with arranging already bought fans for Cosmos 1000 .
I feel like I am gonna have nerves breakdown LOL









EDIT: Do you guys know anything about this one: http://www.petrastechshop.com/12x38scdfuka1.html???


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Damir Poljak* 
46.9cfm @25dB? Isn't it a little weak? I need at least 57cfm for megahalems.
And I am still having problems with arranging already bought fans for Cosmos 1000 .
I feel like I am gonna have nerves breakdown LOL









EDIT: Do you guys know anything about this one: http://www.petrastechshop.com/12x38scdfuka1.html???

It is a little weak it especially for the Mugen 2 and all its fins not to mention it being massive but if his temps are good then there is nothing to complain about









In regards on what to get for the Mega...San Ace would be great if you have a fan controller, if not Panaflo medium speed...1x38mm fan of either of the above choices is plenty good enough or 1x25mm fan of the performance fans I mentioned in my guide...go 2x with the 25mm fans to get a bit more cooling but its not that necessary as mega doesn't require as much static pressure as a lot of other coolers out there (wider fins).

In regards to the Ultra Kazes...they are ultra loud...and if you put them on a fan controller to undervolt them they are even more annoying and make either a clicking or whining sound that is terrible.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damir Poljak*


46.9cfm @25dB? Isn't it a little weak? I need at least 57cfm for megahalems.
And I am still having problems with arranging already bought fans for Cosmos 1000 .
I feel like I am gonna have nerves breakdown LOL









EDIT: Do you guys know anything about this one: http://www.petrastechshop.com/12x38scdfuka1.html???


CFM/Static pressure depends on the heatsink as to what is needed. Noctua's NH-U12P/SE2 do not need high static pressure or CFM and rarely benefit from it.

Asf or the Ultra Kaze fans, they have a tendancy to click when undervolted, and to my knowledge, do not have the best static pressure. But they are relatively inexpensive.

*1 mm H2O = 9.795Pa*

And according to this review the Ultra Kaze 3k's have .3cmH20. Or 3mmH20.

Convert that over (9.795 x 3) = 29.385Pa on those fans for static pressure.

Not bad and pretty respectable.

But the downside is their undervolting and noise.


----------



## vinzend

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


It is a little weak it especially for the Mugen 2 and all its fins not to mention it being massive but if his temps are good then there is nothing to complain about









In regards on what to get for the Mega...San Ace would be great if you have a fan controller, if not Panaflo medium speed...1x38mm fan of either of the above choices is plenty good enough or 1x25mm fan of the performance fans I mentioned in my guide...go 2x with the 25mm fans to get a bit more cooling but its not that necessary as mega doesn't require as much static pressure as a lot of other coolers out there (wider fins).

In regards to the Ultra Kazes...they are ultra loud...and if you put them on a fan controller to undervolt them they are even more annoying and make either a clicking or whining sound that is terrible.


dont forget that i applied the tim improperly.. let's see tmw when i reapply it..


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


BAH...sorry Chunky...didn't mean it in that context...don't want you to yell at anyone else for my miscalculation

















It's fine, as long as the difference remains clarified. It just gets irritating having to explain that repeatedly.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


It's fine, as long as the difference remains clarified. It just gets irritating having to explain that repeatedly.










Kinda like having to explain the same old questions answered 3 or 4 times on the 1st page of a forum section









I know what you mean...that's why I made my guide...got tired of answering the questions over and over...well if you get tired of answering anything else let me know so I can add it here.


----------



## pReFy

Awesome Guide Shadowclock. I'm looking at doing some upgrading to my HAF 932 stock cooling and this thread has all the information I could ever need!


----------



## Crunkles

Would it be worth buying the Megahalems lapped from this site?

http://www.crazypc.com/products/prol...em-508600.html


----------



## vinzend

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crunkles*


Would it be worth buying the Megahalems lapped from this site?

http://www.crazypc.com/products/prol...em-508600.html


blah megahalem doesnt need to be lapped.. buy the new one..
unless he got crazy deal..


----------



## Crunkles

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vinzend*


blah megahalem doesnt need to be lapped.. buy the new one..
unless he got crazy deal..


By "the new one" I assume you mean one that isn't lapped?


----------



## Damir Poljak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crunkles*


By "the new one" I assume you mean one that isn't lapped?


Yeah, he thinks that.


----------



## vinzend

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crunkles*


By "the new one" I assume you mean one that isn't lapped?


yea, the one that's never used..








the heatsink surface of megahalem is already very flat, no need to be lapped..
wrong lapping can even make it worse..


----------



## Volvo

my heatsink has started to make this grinding sound when the fan is on 100%, a bit like a disc grinder lightly touching sheet metal, where you can see sparks fly, and a lil' high pitched sound etc.
the sound immediately disappears when i lower the fan slightly to 95%.

wth is going on!?


----------



## Damir Poljak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Volvo*


my heatsink has started to make this grinding sound when the fan is on 100%, a bit like a disc grinder lightly touching sheet metal, where you can see sparks fly, and a lil' high pitched sound etc.
the sound immediately disappears when i lower the fan slightly to 95%.

wth is going on!?


Change the fan!


----------



## Volvo

fan replaced, still makes weird noises.
is the vibration really that excessive? =x


----------



## Volvo

okay its not a fan problem =x its pretty silent out of the heatsink, vibrates a bit but makes no such noise.


----------



## kyleax1

I found an interesting article. While it didn't use any san ace in it, it did use panaflo and ultra kaze.

While people say ultra kaze suck I found it interesting that the kaze and panaflo had the same static pressure even though ppl try to dog ultra kaze for having horrible static pressure.

http://martin.skinneelabs.com/FanTesting.html

Just interesting to me


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kyleax1*


While people say ultra kaze suck I found it interesting that the kaze and panaflo had the same static pressure even though ppl try to dog ultra kaze for having horrible static pressure.


Exactly. I try to correct people on its static pressure but just go ignored. Still, Ultra Kazes aren't high quality fans, you'll hear a lot about it making unwanted noise when undervolted so it's generally avoided for that reason (it also doesn't seem to spin as fast as the rated RPM so it gets about the same CFM as a U1BX is rated for).


----------



## Tator Tot

I can't recommend the Ultra Kaze's for the noise. Unless they are on a ridiculous sale like the $3.50 OBO on Newegg.


----------



## vinzend

Here's is how yateloon fans look like










the other 3 fans on top of the radiator can't be seen unfortunately..
awesome fans! very nice airflow, super duper cool, and such a low noise..


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vinzend*


Here's is how yateloon fans look like










the other 3 fans on top of the radiator can't be seen unfortunately..
awesome fans! very nice airflow, super duper cool, and such a low noise..










Sexy work Vizend. Put this up on the Yate Loon club too


----------



## vinzend

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Sexy work Vizend. Put this up on the Yate Loon club too










thanks!


----------



## Shadowclock

Updated: Added link to Download essentials thread to help others stress and monitor temps. This link was provided in section 7. Tricks to Better Air Flow, CFM and CPU Temps.


----------



## drBlahMan

Hey Shadowclock, I think you should add the Xigmatek XLF-F1253 fan to the recommendation list. It's a nice fan for the Megahalems. See for yourself... http://www.overclock.net/air-cooling...ml#post7651284


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *drBlahMan* 
Hey Shadowclock, I think you should add the Xigmatek XLF-F1253 fan to the recommendation list. It's a nice fan for the Megahalems. See for yourself... http://www.overclock.net/air-cooling...ml#post7651284

Thanks for the input DrBlahMan









Updated with fan link and added onto spreadsheet. Also special rep as you have convinced me to purchase 9 of these fans for my case.


----------



## tech_frix

guys, need some comment on Cooler Master Hyper 212+..thanks


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tech_frix*


guys, need some comment on Cooler Master Hyper 212+..thanks


Where are you from?

You might have some better options for your budget.


----------



## Shadowclock

Now how did that double post....


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tech_frix* 
guys, need some comment on Cooler Master Hyper 212+..thanks

One review:
Here
Another (this one shows it doing an amazing job):
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-10.html


----------



## mav2000

Heres one I personally did:

http://www.erodov.com/forums/cooler-...ive/23016.html


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mav2000*


Heres one I personally did:

http://www.erodov.com/forums/cooler-...ive/23016.html


Thanks for that Mav. Your review is spot on, I believe with a 2nd fan it would have done even better. +rep


----------



## mav2000

Thank u once again....now I am going to do a four way fight between the 212+. the V2, the Baram and the Corsair H50...results will be up by next week.


----------



## getbigtony

found it! bump this to front page and forget that other thread!


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *getbigtony*


found it! bump this to front page and forget that other thread!


Haha I see what you did thar









This is stickied though so its always on the front page









Oh and thanks for the props.









EDIT: and yay someone else knows my avatar


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
EDIT: and yay someone else knows my avatar









We have an Anime/Manga Club, they all probably know your avatar as well.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
We have an Anime/Manga Club, they all probably know your avatar as well.









LOL no room in my sig to add it but +rep and I will check it out....although it is a tad bit embarrassing being 30 and watching cartoons right


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
LOL no room in my sig to add it but +rep and I will check it out....although it is a tad bit embarrassing being 30 and watching cartoons right









Tell that to the Club leader Latty...he's like 90. (Not really







)


----------



## Shadowclock

Added a link to Deano12345's guide on cable management in the appropriate section.

Thanks for the guide Deano


----------



## Deano12345

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
Added a link to Deano12345's guide on cable management in the appropriate section.

Thanks for the guide Deano









Cable managment bump









Hey shadow,Do you know how to conver m3h to CFM.Trying to find out some CFM info on these 140mm Noctua fans and cant find any CFM rating on them


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Deano12345*


Cable managment bump









Hey shadow,Do you know how to conver m3h to CFM.Trying to find out some CFM info on these 140mm Noctua fans and cant find any CFM rating on them


THIS site helps you convert anything...find the appropriate section and enter in the number you know and hit the Convert button. Find the appropriate rating your looking for and the number shown is the conversion.


----------



## Tator Tot

*@ShadowClock* you have the Delta AFB's listed as 107 Pa for static pressure, but they are 10.98 Pa


----------



## Danker16

why isn't the TQ120 on the list?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Danker16*


why isn't the TQ120 on the list?


Because the Tuniq Propeller & Tuniq 120 Extreme are out both of which cool better.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


*@ShadowClock* you have the Delta AFB's listed as 107 Pa for static pressure, but they are 10.98 Pa


Tator its actually 10.92 mm HÂ²O listed on Performance PC which is the link I have setup. 10.92 mm H20 is indeed 107Pa listed on this site: http://www.convertunits.com/from/mmH2O/to/pascal

Please do let me know if I am wrong









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Because the Tuniq Propeller & Tuniq 120 Extreme are out both of which cool better.


And aren't suggested very often here. If you could supply some data that proves their worthyness I would be more then happy to add them. Usually would suggest 3 or more reviews along with 1 or 2 OCN member results.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Tator its actually 10.92 mm HÂ²O listed on Performance PC which is the link I have setup. 10.92 mm H20 is indeed 107Pa listed on this site: http://www.convertunits.com/from/mmH2O/to/pascal

Please do let me know if I am wrong











Delta actually lists that, it was my oops, I read Pa on PPC by mistake.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


And aren't suggested very often here. If you could supply some data that proves their worthyness I would be more then happy to add them. Usually would suggest 3 or more reviews along with 1 or 2 OCN member results.


I'll PM you some reviews later. I remember VcheeZ reviewd the Extreme for his site. And a few others did reviews too.

I should be getting a Propeller soon so I can review it for my site.


----------



## Shadowclock

Added ZM-F3 fan, some more opinionated information on the budget fans, and ZM-F3 info into the spreadsheet. If you have more statistical specs on the ZM-F3 please do share along with the other fans as I am missing bits and pieces that I was unable to find with my own research.

Thanks ahead of time and +rep for any solid info.


----------



## Blackhawk4

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ST%20PC%20CORP.

A couple more fan controllers


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blackhawk4*


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ST%20PC%20CORP.

A couple more fan controllers


Bleh...I don't know about those Blackhawk...I mean besides the FC-4 which I like the FC-2 better which is just a Lamptron controller. I don't particularly like the toggle on/off switch because it doesn't allow you to perfectly control the fans which I suggest through quite a few spots in my guide. Also, 100w/channel







....I don't even know what fan you would fit in your case that would need that kind of power....


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Bleh...I don't know about those Blackhawk...I mean besides the FC-4 which I like the FC-2 better which is just a Lamptron controller. I don't particularly like the toggle on/off switch because it doesn't allow you to perfectly control the fans which I suggest through quite a few spots in my guide. Also, 100w/channel







....I don't even know what fan you would fit in your case that would need that kind of power....


Its 100watt for the whole controller, 20watts per channel.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Its 100watt for the whole controller, 20watts per channel.

That makes it much more realistic...the newegg states 100w/channel....liars!









Still, not my kind of fan controller and has limited use. Most people here on OCN don't suggest these types controllers either, I would like to stick to more popular models but I would be willing to hear from a couple of others on the matter


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


That makes it much more realistic...the newegg states 100w/channel....liars!









Still, not my kind of fan controller and has limited use. Most people here on OCN don't suggest these types controllers either, I would like to stick to more popular models but I would be willing to hear from a couple of others on the matter










I don't like Rocker switches, because they usually go, Off/7v/12v which is not my cup'o'tea.

Though, I have the Hummer Black, and it's solid. The only real issue is that the Hummer is a rocker type. Other than that, I can't say anything bad about it.

Maybe it could use black switches?

Possibly some LED's for you silly kids.

How about a black PCB?

But honestly, no it's a great controller if that is your style. Works well, the milling is nice. And it's overall a decent build. Nothing special, but it's not designed to be.


----------



## gymenii

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Added ZM-F3 fan, some more opinionated information on the budget fans, and ZM-F3 info into the spreadsheet. If you have more statistical specs on the ZM-F3 please do share along with the other fans as I am missing bits and pieces that I was unable to find with my own research.

Thanks ahead of time and +rep for any solid info.


ZM-F3 Specs
Rated voltage 12 VDC
Air volume at full speed (12V) - 72.2 CFM Â±10%
Noise level at full speed (12V) - 34 dB(A) (seems louder)
Fan speed at full speed (12V) - 1800 RPM Â±10%
Air volume at reduced speed (7.5V) - 34 CFM Â±10%
Noise level at reduced speed (7.5V) - 20 dB(A)
Fan speed at reduced speed (7.5V) - 900 RPM Â±10%
Power consumption - 4.2W
Warranty 24 months


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gymenii*


ZM-F3 Specs
Rated voltage 12 VDC
Air volume at full speed (12V) - 72.2 CFM Â±10%
Noise level at full speed (12V) - 34 dB(A) (seems louder)
Fan speed at full speed (12V) - 1800 RPM Â±10%
Air volume at reduced speed (7.5V) - 34 CFM Â±10%
Noise level at reduced speed (7.5V) - 20 dB(A)
Fan speed at reduced speed (7.5V) - 900 RPM Â±10%
Power consumption - 4.2W
Warranty 24 months


Well that gives me the CFM and additional info in case someone else asks about the lower settings.

+rep thanks Gymenii


----------



## Griffin

Im buying a sanyo denki 9G1212H1011.
Im also going to buy a Sunbeam Rheobus Black.

how do i regulate the speed of these ? i think you have to have the cpu fan plugged into the motherboard or you get a error when powering on.

so does this mean i will be unable to control the speed of this fan with the Rheobus ?

or is it fine to run the thing at 2600 rpm


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Griffin*


Im buying a sanyo denki 9G1212H1011.
Im also going to buy a Sunbeam Rheobus Black.

how do i regulate the speed of these ? i think you have to have the cpu fan plugged into the motherboard or you get a error when powering on.

so does this mean i will be unable to control the speed of this fan with the Rheobus ?

or is it fine to run the thing at 2600 rpm


Glad you found one









There is an extension wire that should come with the fan controller that basically splits it and has 2 wires ground and RPM (Black/Yellow) and then the traditional 3 color wires ground/RPM/Power (Black/Yellow/Red). The 3 wire goes into your fan controller and the 2 wire goes into your CPU fan. This will prevent the fan error and will actually give a CPU fan readout to your computer. Your computer will be unable to change the speed of the fan though due to it also needing a 4th wire which is the PWM portion of the fan which regulates the RPM based on the CPU temp.

Let me see if I can find a picture of the wire....

EDIT: Well I can't find the wire online but again the wire should come with the controller. I know my Rheobus Extreme did.

Also 2600RPM should be fine especially with the San Ace...I believe I actually kept mine around 1400 and it worked great.


----------



## Griffin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Glad you found one









There is an extension wire that should come with the fan controller that basically splits it and has 2 wires ground and RPM (Black/Yellow) and then the traditional 3 color wires ground/RPM/Power (Black/Yellow/Red). The 3 wire goes into your fan controller and the 2 wire goes into your CPU fan. This will prevent the fan error and will actually give a CPU fan readout to your computer. Your computer will be unable to change the speed of the fan though due to it also needing a 4th wire which is the PWM portion of the fan which regulates the RPM based on the CPU temp.

Let me see if I can find a picture of the wire....

EDIT: Well I can't find the wire online but again the wire should come with the controller. I know my Rheobus Extreme did.

Also 2600RPM should be fine especially with the San Ace...I believe I actually kept mine around 1400 and it worked great.



Thank you

I was not sure as i never had a fan controller before


----------



## gymenii

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Griffin* 
Im buying a sanyo denki 9G1212H1011.
Im also going to buy a Sunbeam Rheobus Black.

how do i regulate the speed of these ? i think you have to have the cpu fan plugged into the motherboard or you get a error when powering on.

so does this mean i will be unable to control the speed of this fan with the Rheobus ?

or is it fine to run the thing at 2600 rpm

This


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gymenii*


This


That works too. Not quite what I was talking about but very similar. +rep


----------



## MIGhunter

Subscribing and anyone know where to get a good fan for my Dark Knight? I was looking at a sans ace but can't ever find them.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MIGhunter* 
Subscribing and anyone know where to get a good fan for my Dark Knight? I was looking at a sans ace but can't ever find them.

Newark.com or ChilledPC which are both on my preferred vendor list are the best places to get the San Ace other then praying at ebay.

Other fan suggestions are already covered in my guide unless your just looking for confirmation from others which is all good


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Yes. Chilled PC has "more than 10" San Aces in stock right now, it's a great time to pick one up.


----------



## MIGhunter

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Newark.com or ChilledPC which are both on my preferred vendor list are the best places to get the San Ace other then praying at ebay.

Other fan suggestions are already covered in my guide unless your just looking for confirmation from others which is all good










Anyone have the links to these 2 sites to the sans ace fans in question? I'm at work and I can't search for them because of the internet blocker.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Here's the ribless (open corner) San Ace, and here's the ribbed (closed corner) version. Hopefully those sites aren't blocked, I recommend the former as you can have the shop pin a 3-pin connector on for you, and even sleeve the cable, it's only about 8 dollars extra to do both.


----------



## MIGhunter

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Here's the ribless (open corner) San Ace, and here's the ribbed (closed corner) version. Hopefully those sites aren't blocked, I recommend the former as you can have the shop pin a 3-pin connector on for you, and even sleeve the cable, it's only about 8 dollars extra to do both.


What's the difference between the open corner and closed corner?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Closed corner fans have plastic channels that run between each side of the frame, usually for additional rigidity or vibration dampening. This is inconvenient for some tower cooler mounting systems though, like Xigmatek's rubber posts, so open corners (without the plastic channels) work much better for that.


----------



## MIGhunter

You ever order from Chilled PC? I live in the states, how is their service for the states? Is their Braiding good?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Yes, actually, and I'm located in Idaho. Look at the 9G1212H1011 review in my sig, I have a thorough description there with a couple of pictures, as well as a "vs. Panaflo U1BX" comparison. The rig where I tested it is currently out of commission until I get new firmware flashed to my SSD, but all the same. I will comment here what I didn't there, though; the sleeving is surprisingly good, with a nice balance between durability and flexibility, something I don't see in Techflex often.


----------



## MIGhunter

Let me ask you another ?. I'm using a HAF 932 and trying to figure out what fan to put on the bottom of the case next to the PSU. Also, is it better to use that fan as in intake or exhaust fan?


----------



## gymenii

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


That works too. Not quite what I was talking about but very similar.


Ops ya it's this one... comes with the Rheobus Extreme.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MIGhunter*


Let me ask you another ?. I'm using a HAF 932 and trying to figure out what fan to put on the bottom of the case next to the PSU. Also, is it better to use that fan as in intake or exhaust fan?


Intake, definitely. I'd use an S-Flex E, you can find them almost anywhere with a simple Google Products search and they shouldn't be too expensive.


----------



## sugiik

excuse me wanna ask....

what the best cpu cooling can be use at rampage extreme board ?

i'm currently using zerotherm core92 , mid tower storm scout case....

for now i got about mid40-early 50 at low usage cpu....
with IBT it reach at about 80C at full load

proc : q9550 [email protected],4ghz cpu volt 1,24V, with fsb 400...
ambient temp : about 27-32...

so i'm thinking to use a cpu air cooling wich use 120mm fan, i dunno what best in case it perform and fit better on my board..is megahalem may fit ? with 2 fans ?


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sugiik* 
excuse me wanna ask....

what the best cpu cooling can be use at rampage extreme board ?

i'm currently using zerotherm core92 , mid tower storm scout case....

for now i got about mid40-early 50 at low usage cpu....
with IBT it reach at about 80C at full load

proc : q9550 [email protected],4ghz cpu volt 1,24V, with fsb 400...
ambient temp : about 27-32...

so i'm thinking to use a cpu air cooling wich use 120mm fan, i dunno what best in case it perform and fit better on my board..is megahalem may fit ? with 2 fans ?

I have seen a couple other members with megahalem and 25mm thick fans so yes it should fit just fine. Megahalem is the best out of the box cooling right now in my opinion.


----------



## sugiik

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


I have seen a couple other members with megahalem and 25mm thick fans so yes it should fit just fine. Megahalem is the best out of the box cooling right now in my opinion.


thx just afraid it won't fit on rex...

gonna order it then ^^


----------



## Deano12345

http://www.overclock.net/air-cooling...14-review.html

Another top cooler from Noctua,it seems.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deano12345* 
http://www.overclock.net/air-cooling...14-review.html

Another top cooler from Noctua,it seems.

Indeed, waiting for OCN review against Mega and will be adding it in. Hopefully someone will start a club for it


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
Indeed, waiting for OCN review against Mega and will be adding it in. Hopefully someone will start a club for it









Wanna buy one for me?

I'll bench it vs my Mega with the Delta AFB's.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Wanna buy one for me?

I'll bench it vs my Mega with the Delta AFB's.

HAHA then I would just buy one for me









Nice try Tator


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
HAHA then I would just buy one for me









Nice try Tator









But I've got 3 of those Delta AFB's....so just sayin...

2 H1011's as well.

Well, two free. The other ones are not finished yet (haven't done the cables yet)


----------



## Deano12345

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
HAHA then I would just buy one for me









Nice try Tator









I might be doing a build for a mate of mine.I might sell him my IFX and buy the Noctua for myself or I'll get him to get it and I can bench it against the IFX...if that helps at all


----------



## Shadowclock

Updated with a new link for the 18 CPU Cooler roundup data in the CPU Cooler section. Give it a good look over.

HERE is the link.


----------



## lardo5150

Ok guys, maybe you can answer me a question.
Check out my sig rig.
I am going to be purchasing a fan for my meg.
According to this guide, the 38mm fans will suck to much juice to be plugged into the cpu fan on the board.
Here is what I want to accomplish. I want something where I can set it at a specific temp to kick the fan into high gear. So for example, if the temp hits 45 degrees, the fan automatically goes into 100%.
A fan controller is not what I am looking for, you manually turn the fan up and down.
With my old board, you could do this in the bios, set it to a specific temp.
You cant do that with the P6t board.
But the problem I am also seeing is if I use the performance fans, then you are going to be using the 4 pin power connector, not plugging it into the board.
So is this even possible?


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lardo5150* 
Ok guys, maybe you can answer me a question.
Check out my sig rig.
I am going to be purchasing a fan for my meg.
According to this guide, the 38mm fans will suck to much juice to be plugged into the cpu fan on the board.
Here is what I want to accomplish. I want something where I can set it at a specific temp to kick the fan into high gear. So for example, if the temp hits 45 degrees, the fan automatically goes into 100%.
A fan controller is not what I am looking for, you manually turn the fan up and down.
With my old board, you could do this in the bios, set it to a specific temp.
You cant do that with the P6t board.
But the problem I am also seeing is if I use the performance fans, then you are going to be using the 4 pin power connector, not plugging it into the board.
So is this even possible?

Actually dependant upon the 38mm fan used the P6T should be able to handle the fan just fine. CPU fan headers on newer mobos have a minimum of 1Amp power in them which is 12 watts. The newer San Ace 38mm fan only pulls ~ 4.6 watts and most decently powered 38mm fans will pull less then 8 watts so you are well within range for your mobo as far as I know. Therefore, you are good to go and need no aftermarket support for your fans









This is why I suggest getting your mobo fan header information from the manual or from the manufacturer. The older boards don't support this much wattage.


----------



## lardo5150

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
Actually dependant upon the 38mm fan used the P6T should be able to handle the fan just fine. CPU fan headers on newer mobos have a minimum of 1Amp power in them which is 12 watts. The newer San Ace 38mm fan only pulls ~ 4.6 watts and most decently powered 38mm fans will pull less then 8 watts so you are well within range for your mobo as far as I know. Therefore, you are good to go and need no aftermarket support for your fans









This is why I suggest getting your mobo fan header information from the manual or from the manufacturer. The older boards don't support this much wattage.

I was looking at pics of your rig, it looks like that is how you have your san ace hooked up?


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lardo5150*


I was looking at pics of your rig, it looks like that is how you have your san ace hooked up?


Actually no I have it plugged into my fan controller but I use a 3 pin splitter to 3 pin/2pin and the 2pin is plugged into the CPU fan header to prevent CPU fan errors and gives RPM readings. The 2 wires in the 2 pin are the ground and RPM sensor. The 3 pin side of the split is of course plugged into my fan controller....hope that helps some.

I personally like controlling my fan speed, I actually leave it at tolerant levels that still cool well. The CPU fan header would turn it up and down and get on my nerves...my pet peeve though


----------



## DannyLaw

Good guide, learnt a thing or two from this.

One question, Im currently using a stock intel cpu cooler and heatsink and I wanted to place a 80mm fan opposite it so that it can help with the cooling and it can bring in more cool air. Is this a good idea? As I remember reading somewhere having two fans next two each other cancel each other out? Well I am not exactly sure what will happen but could u give me your opinions to whether this is a good idea or not.

Thanks


----------



## lardo5150

Shadow, what do you think about these options.

Right now I have a simple coolermaster case fan on my meg. Temps are around 32 idle, and 42 while gaming. I want to overclock.
1. Put another cooler master fan on it for a push/pull. These are not PWM's so I would either run them full out or put it on a controller, but these things are super quiet. Dont know the ratings.
2. Get a panaflow or a sanace, run it either with a controller or let the bios handle it. I am guessing that a controller would be better since the bios does not let me sent the temps I want it to kick in at.

Can I ask why you are not a fan of speedfan? I have not really looked into it that much yet.

You know I actually considered a corsair h50 liquid cooling system since it is only like 80 bucks, but a few people said the meg actually cools better.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DannyLaw*


Good guide, learnt a thing or two from this.

One question, Im currently using a stock intel cpu cooler and heatsink and I wanted to place a 80mm fan opposite it so that it can help with the cooling and it can bring in more cool air. Is this a good idea? As I remember reading somewhere having two fans next two each other cancel each other out? Well I am not exactly sure what will happen but could u give me your opinions to whether this is a good idea or not.

Thanks


Having them in a push/pull configuration "can" help cool it better. Make sure to use very similar if not identical fans though as having two different fans will cause them to fight eachother and wear them out much faster.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lardo5150*


Shadow, what do you think about these options.

Right now I have a simple coolermaster case fan on my meg. Temps are around 32 idle, and 42 while gaming. I want to overclock.
1. Put another cooler master fan on it for a push/pull. These are not PWM's so I would either run them full out or put it on a controller, but these things are super quiet. Dont know the ratings.
2. Get a panaflow or a sanace, run it either with a controller or let the bios handle it. I am guessing that a controller would be better since the bios does not let me sent the temps I want it to kick in at.

Can I ask why you are not a fan of speedfan? I have not really looked into it that much yet.

You know I actually considered a corsair h50 liquid cooling system since it is only like 80 bucks, but a few people said the meg actually cools better.


A second fan in push/pull might help some but getting a 38mm fan would be better. You should be able to run it off the CPU fan header just fine...you could also get a 3 pin fan splitter and run both fans off of one header, the CM fans don't pull enough wattage to effect your mobo.

I am not a fan of speedfan because I like having the manual control of the fan and not having to worry what happens if the software fails for some reason. But thats just me


----------



## sugiik

another noob question....

is it possible to use push/pull config... w/o fan controller ?(that mean 2 fans on cpu cooler) (wicheas it'll follow the cpu temperature(automatic ?)
(just plug it into board ?)

currently using REX board....(it contains 1 4 pin for fan)

on the manual book write that for 2 core cpu, plug it into cha_fan slot (3 pin)

i found that on my board, got about 5-6 total slot for fan (3 pin) and 1 for 4 pin....

(is it okay to plug on anywhere for cpu fan ? )

and i can't find anywhere on manual, that about voltage/A/watt for each slot....all the same maybe ?


----------



## lardo5150

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Having them in a push/pull configuration "can" help cool it better. Make sure to use very similar if not identical fans though as having two different fans will cause them to fight eachother and wear them out much faster.

A second fan in push/pull might help some but getting a 38mm fan would be better. You should be able to run it off the CPU fan header just fine...you could also get a 3 pin fan splitter and run both fans off of one header, the CM fans don't pull enough wattage to effect your mobo.

I am not a fan of speedfan because I like having the manual control of the fan and not having to worry what happens if the software fails for some reason. But thats just me











Shadow, if the SanAces and Panaflo's are not PWM, then how can you run them on the fan controller?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Updated with a new link for the 18 CPU Cooler roundup data in the CPU Cooler section. Give it a good look over.

HERE is the link.


I would have to say this isn't a very good review man.

1.) They don't state ambient (room) temps
2.) There results are off almost every time. 
3.) They don't state if they are using stock fans or XX 25mm fan or XX 38mm fan


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sugiik* 
another noob question....

is it possible to use push/pull config... w/o fan controller ?(that mean 2 fans on cpu cooler) (wicheas it'll follow the cpu temperature(automatic ?)
(just plug it into board ?)

currently using REX board....(it contains 1 4 pin for fan)

on the manual book write that for 2 core cpu, plug it into cha_fan slot (3 pin)

i found that on my board, got about 5-6 total slot for fan (3 pin) and 1 for 4 pin....

(is it okay to plug on anywhere for cpu fan ? )

and i can't find anywhere on manual, that about voltage/A/watt for each slot....all the same maybe ?

I will give you the same answer as I gave Lardo in regards to this:
you could also get a 3 pin fan splitter and run both fans off of cpu header, the CM fans don't pull enough wattage to effect your mobo.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lardo5150* 
Shadow, if the SanAces and Panaflo's are not PWM, then how can you run them on the fan controller?

Fan controllers run off of 3 pin wires and the fan speed is controlled by how much voltage is given to the fan via the dials. PWM fans have that 4th wire I was mentioning and do not work with most fan controllers (none of the ones I suggest using at least).


----------



## lardo5150

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Actually no I have it plugged into my fan controller but I use a 3 pin splitter to 3 pin/2pin and the 2pin is plugged into the CPU fan header to prevent CPU fan errors and gives RPM readings. The 2 wires in the 2 pin are the ground and RPM sensor. The 3 pin side of the split is of course plugged into my fan controller....hope that helps some.

I personally like controlling my fan speed, I actually leave it at tolerant levels that still cool well. The CPU fan header would turn it up and down and get on my nerves...my pet peeve though










I am going to go with this setup.
I am grabbing the panaflo from frozencpu.
Where can I get this 3pin splitter to 3pin/2pin adapter at?
Frozen only has the 3pin to 4pin.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lardo5150*


I am going to go with this setup.
I am grabbing the panaflo from frozencpu.
Where can I get this 3pin splitter to 3pin/2pin adapter at?
Frozen only has the 3pin to 4pin.


I actually tried to find one and couldn't. They come with the fan controller I got. Sorry I can't come up with a better solution then that









Maybe ask around to see if anyone else has ideas...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I would have to say this isn't a very good review man.

1.) They don't state ambient (room) temps
2.) There results are off almost every time. 
3.) They don't state if they are using stock fans or XX 25mm fan or XX 38mm fan


Well unfortunately the page isn't loading...weird. I am going to check on your issues with it and see what I can come up with Tator, in the meantime I think it is a pretty good overview of how some of todays coolers react head to head. Once I can confirm the information that is missing from the site then I will either get them to post it or let you know here. Also, I will add my note that I included on the madshrimps reviews...take their results with "educated" eyes.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Well unfortunately the page isn't loading...weird. I am going to check on your issues with it and see what I can come up with Tator, in the meantime I think it is a pretty good overview of how some of todays coolers react head to head. Once I can confirm the information that is missing from the site then I will either get them to post it or let you know here. Also, I will add my note that I included on the madshrimps reviews...take their results with "educated" eyes.


Trust me Shadow, you sit on OCN for a year and see any Heatsink review and those 3 items are what most people complain about.

Along with, "did they use THE SAME TIM! /#RTRAGE!"


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Trust me Shadow, you sit on OCN for a year and see any Heatsink review and those 3 items are what most people complain about.

Along with, "did they use THE SAME TIM! /#RTRAGE!"


Oh I certainly trust you and understand what your saying but there just aren't a lot of reviews out there that put so many coolers together. Even if the review isn't perfect it at least sets up a generalized overview of how they match up against eachother. I annotated that in my guide already. I may word it a little better....


----------



## Tator Tot

Just a friendly heads up man









Don't wanna have to come into this thread and lay my Smack-talk-knowledge down on some wippersnappers.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Just a friendly heads up man









Don't wanna have to come into this thread and lay my Smack-talk-knowledge down on some wippersnappers.


Well that link hasn't worked for an entire day now so I guess I will just remove it...that's kharma right there


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Well that link hasn't worked for an entire day now so I guess I will just remove it...that's kharma right there










Haha, probably taken down due to my rage points above.

I've seen some sites spammed to death with those in the comments section.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Haha, probably taken down due to my rage points above.

I've seen some sites spammed to death with those in the comments section.


Yea but the whole site seems to be down...man you got a lot of rage Tator


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
Yea but the whole site seems to be down...man you got a lot of rage Tator









I have silent rage. I scrutinize them from my basecamp at OCN till I can Zerg Rush them when they least expect.


----------



## sugiik

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


I will give you the same answer as I gave Lardo in regards to this:
you could also get a 3 pin fan splitter and run both fans off of cpu header, the CM fans don't pull enough wattage to effect your mobo.

Fan controllers run off of 3 pin wires and the fan speed is controlled by how much voltage is given to the fan via the dials. PWM fans have that 4th wire I was mentioning and do not work with most fan controllers (none of the ones I suggest using at least).


so what about using two 4 pin fan ? using splitter than plug onto 4 pin cpu fan slot ?(wich my board got 1 slot for that, haven't tried it out )

and also is it possible to use 4 pin fan n put it onto 3 pin cpu fan header ? ^^

>>>if i'm about to use 3 and 4 pin, << can but the speed must be set manually that off the cpu fan header ?

(my plan is to get two 4 pin fan....)


----------



## Damir Poljak

Hey Shadowclock, what do you think about this one: http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=6634?


----------



## mav2000

Looks like a nicely made fan...now I wonder if those holes in the frame actually help or kill the air pressure. Dont know...


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sugiik*


so what about using two 4 pin fan ? using splitter than plug onto 4 pin cpu fan slot ?(wich my board got 1 slot for that, haven't tried it out )

and also is it possible to use 4 pin fan n put it onto 3 pin cpu fan header ? ^^

>>>if i'm about to use 3 and 4 pin, << can but the speed must be set manually that off the cpu fan header ?

(my plan is to get two 4 pin fan....)



If the fan is 4 pin it can utilize the CPU fan header to control the speed based off temperatures.
If the fan is a 3 pin it can be plugged into the CPU fan header but it cannot be controlled based on temperatures, however it can be controlled via software like speedfan but you will have to set the speeds via that program.
I believe you should be fine utilizing a splitter for the 4 pin (if you can find one for it) and connecting it to the CPU fan header but honestly I have never tried that.
You also should be able to plug a 4 pin fan into a fan header because the connection on the mobo is an "open casing" if it had a closed casing the 4 pin housing would not fit into the slot.
Hope I helped some









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damir Poljak*


Hey Shadowclock, what do you think about this one: http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=6634?


I have actually already seen this fan in the hardware news and replied to it HERE

Quote:



I like the look of it actually. Expensive but if it is indeed a solid performer and with its features I think it is worth it.


In regards to the holes apparently other fans that have this feature it actually helps based on the design of the blades...I am looking forward to someone smarter then me to review these fans.


----------



## Damir Poljak

Agreee ^^
Waiting for some OCN reviews


----------



## sugiik

@shadowclock thank u ^^
last quest...is it okay if 4 pin i convert to 3 pin,(2pieces 4 pin fan) than use splitter then plug it ? ^^
(it don't degrade/slow down the fan ?)


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sugiik* 
@shadowclock thank u ^^
last quest...is it okay if 4 pin i convert to 3 pin,(2pieces 4 pin fan) than use splitter then plug it ? ^^
(it don't degrade/slow down the fan ?)

If your talking about splicing the wires together or separating the 4th pin from the 3 pin fan connection then no this will not slow down the fan.

Splicing the wires together with the same color wire into the 1 connector will not effect the fans performance and will basically allow you to run 2 fans with one connection.

or

If your referring to just removing the 4th pin this will not effect performance either it will only disable the ability for the fan to be controlled via the CPU fan Headers temperature readings.

By the way sugiik you can put your computer specs HERE to make it look prettier


----------



## Shadowclock

Sorry for the double post folks but I have updated some info on the guide:

Added my personal favorites under each section beside each section heading. Getting a lot of people PMing me asking me what I think is best








Thanks for reading and your support guys. Lets educate the new members and point them here if you can please...that is unless you disagree then by all means help me improve the guide!


----------



## sugiik

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
If your talking about splicing the wires together or separating the 4th pin from the 3 pin fan connection then no this will not slow down the fan.

Splicing the wires together with the same color wire into the 1 connector will not effect the fans performance and will basically allow you to run 2 fans with one connection.

or

If your referring to just removing the 4th pin this will not effect performance either it will only disable the ability for the fan to be controlled via the CPU fan Headers temperature readings.

By the way sugiik you can put your computer specs HERE to make it look prettier









thankx ^ ^
so i'll take 3 and 4 pin separate plug, so that will i have to manually set the fan speed , if not another not plug onto cpu fan header, it means that it'll display as optional/ fan beside cpu fan rite ? ^^

o ya, in fan spec , the fan lifespam ex: 40.000hours >> that means the fan run at 100% speed ? /under ? hehehe

me so many asking >_<

anyway great thanks and nice thread... ^^


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sugiik* 
thankx ^ ^
so i'll take 3 and 4 pin separate plug, so that will i have to manually set the fan speed , if not another not plug onto cpu fan header, it means that it'll display as optional/ fan beside cpu fan rite ? ^^

o ya, in fan spec , the fan lifespam ex: 40.000hours >> that means the fan run at 100% speed ? /under ? hehehe

me so many asking >_<

anyway great thanks and nice thread... ^^

Sorry Sugiik, can you try to restate your question...I can tell english is your 2nd language


----------



## sugiik

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Sorry Sugiik, can you try to restate your question...I can tell english is your 2nd language











lol

my bad....hahaha

3 pin > plug into cpu fan header
4 pin > plug into another slot 
could i change the 4 pin fan speed manually ?(w/o fan controller) (via bios can ?)

another Q , about fan lifespam usually says : more - less 40.000-50.000hours <<< is this at fan max rpm ?

sorry for my bad english... >_<


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sugiik*


lol

my bad....hahaha

3 pin > plug into cpu fan header
4 pin > plug into another slot 
could i change the 4 pin fan speed manually ?(w/o fan controller) (via bios can ?)

another Q , about fan lifespam usually says : more - less 40.000-50.000hours <<< is this at fan max rpm ?

sorry for my bad english... >_<


Ok think I got it now.

Why don't you plug the 4 pin fan into the CPU fan header though since it will be automatic?

You can plug the 3 pin into CPU fan header, yes.
You can plug the 4 pin into the other fan header if you modify the connection, yes.
You should be able to control the fan speed of any fan if it is plugged into your mobo by either the bios or software like speedfan.
The fan lifetime is generally speaking but yes they are assuming that lifetime at max RPM but that doesn't mean that it will last a lot longer by turning down the RPM. Expect to get that many hours regardless of RPM settings.


----------



## lardo5150

Ok, so I got my meg installed.
Using Freeze paste, and one Panaflo ultra fast fan pushing air through the meg, towards the rear exhaust fan in the case.
My case has good airflow and cable magagement.
I have not even overclocked this thing yet.
It is getting the same temps as my arctic freezer 7 on idle. Have not run load yet.
temps are:
c1=32
c2=32
c3=25
c4=25

I would think these would be temps for the overclock, not stock.
If this is not normal, do I need to look at reseating?

I have an exhaust fan on the case behind the meg, directly above it. I have two intakes in the front, and one one the side pumping air at the vid card.

What do you think.
For the panaflo, I got it from frozencpu, with a 3pin, to 4pin with a 1pin connector to go to the cpu header for rpm control. The fan is pretty loud


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lardo5150*


Ok, so I got my meg installed.
Using Freeze paste, and one Panaflo ultra fast fan pushing air through the meg, towards the rear exhaust fan in the case.
My case has good airflow and cable magagement.
I have not even overclocked this thing yet.
It is getting the same temps as my arctic freezer 7 on idle. Have not run load yet.
temps are:
c1=32
c2=32
c3=25
c4=25

I would think these would be temps for the overclock, not stock.
If this is not normal, do I need to look at reseating?

I have an exhaust fan on the case behind the meg, directly above it. I have two intakes in the front, and one one the side pumping air at the vid card.

What do you think.
For the panaflo, I got it from frozencpu, with a 3pin, to 4pin with a 1pin connector to go to the cpu header for rpm control. The fan is pretty loud










For an I7 those temps are great actually. I sit between 36-38c on idle with my 3.8 OC. Test your load temps...your doing good bro


----------



## Griffin

I got my reobus extreame setup yesterday it works great.

But my god the leds are too bright









My eyes hurt when i look at the thing i some way to lower the brightness of the 
leds. i googled for an answer and only found guides on how to change the leds to a different color. this involves soldering which i dont know the first thing about.

can someone give me some advice


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Griffin*


I got my reobus extreame setup yesterday it works great.

But my god the leds are too bright









My eyes hurt when i look at the thing i some way to lower the brightness of the 
leds. i googled for an answer and only found guides on how to change the leds to a different color. this involves soldering which i dont know the first thing about.

can someone give me some advice


Get a pair of needle nose pliers, and rip those things out









Because you are not good with soldering you are pretty much stuck. Either take them out, cover them up, or deal with it.


----------



## Griffin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Get a pair of needle nose pliers, and rip those things out









Because you are not good with soldering you are pretty much stuck. Either take them out, cover them up, or deal with it.


Its ok just pull the leds straight out ?

i might just paint over them with black paint or something


----------



## Tator Tot

I did it on my RX & Lamptron FC-2.

I would get an exacto knife and sever the connections, then use plyers to gently lift the LED's out.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Griffin*


Its ok just pull the leds straight out ?

i might just paint over them with black paint or something


Another solution to "dim" them that I did is just to bend them upright or 45 degrees. The more you bend them the more dim they get. You could also get a black marker and put several "layers" of marker over the LEDs.


----------



## Griffin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Another solution to "dim" them that I did is just to bend them upright or 45 degrees. The more you bend them the more dim they get. You could also get a black marker and put several "layers" of marker over the LEDs.


Ok ill try bend them that sounds like a good idea did you use a pliers or something ?


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Griffin*


Ok ill try bend them that sounds like a good idea did you use a pliers or something ?


Actually used those L shaped hex tools as a hook to pull them up


----------



## Griffin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
Actually used those L shaped hex tools as a hook to pull them up









something like these
http://www.labsafety.com/images/xl/B...i_LBM48782.jpg


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Griffin* 
something like these
http://www.labsafety.com/images/xl/B...i_LBM48782.jpg

Yup just like those


----------



## Griffin

That will be little project for the weekend

Thanks for the info


----------



## sugiik

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Ok think I got it now.

Why don't you plug the 4 pin fan into the CPU fan header though since it will be automatic?

You can plug the 3 pin into CPU fan header, yes.
You can plug the 4 pin into the other fan header if you modify the connection, yes.
You should be able to control the fan speed of any fan if it is plugged into your mobo by either the bios or software like speedfan.
The fan lifetime is generally speaking but yes they are assuming that lifetime at max RPM but that doesn't mean that it will last a lot longer by turning down the RPM. Expect to get that many hours regardless of RPM settings.


just got time to open web again >_<

thx alot , can't wait till my megahalem arrive...hope it's not stuck on my rex hoho....


----------



## Maegniziam

Are metal alloy fans e.g. aluminum "better" than plastic ones?
Sure, metals conduct heat but is it enough?
( Let's say 2 identical fans, one metal, one plastic, which will cool components best? )


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maegniziam*


Are metal alloy fans e.g. aluminum "better" than plastic ones?
Sure, metals conduct heat but is it enough?
( Let's say 2 identical fans, one metal, one plastic, which will cool components best? )


I think the difference would be so minute that it makes little difference. I know one thing though, if I get my finger caught in a fan I'd hope it was a plastic one


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maegniziam*


Are metal alloy fans e.g. aluminum "better" than plastic ones?
Sure, metals conduct heat but is it enough?
( Let's say 2 identical fans, one metal, one plastic, which will cool components best? )


Well, the fan housing is not meant to contract heat, for durrability, the metal ones would win.

But the plastic fans are lighter, easier to to run (because of weight) and cheaper to produce.

SO I think the only real difference is that a metal fan could take more abuse than a plastic one could.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


I think the difference would be so minute that it makes little difference. I know one thing though, if I get my finger caught in a fan I'd hope it was a plastic one










Plastic ones can still take a chunk out. I've had it happen before.

God bless you 6k RPM fans. (it was an 80mm Delta I think)


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Plastic ones can still take a chunk out. I've had it happen before.

God bless you 6k RPM fans. (it was an 80mm Delta I think)


Oh I know from experience but how much more would it have hurt if it was a metal blade


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Oh I know from experience but how much more would it have hurt if it was a metal blade










the real question would be how much less of a finger would you have


----------



## aFpoOwnZ

nice guide rep+ 
ty for this


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aFpoOwnZ* 
nice guide rep+
ty for this









Thanks for the appreciation, glad it was useful for you.

Update to the guide, I took off the Vendetta 2 as it is a less popular cooler now in the community. To take its place on the roster I have added the Noctua NH-D14 to the list.

Welcome aboard Noctua!

Still looking into adding the new Venomous X and looking forward to OCN member reviews.









Thanks to all for the reps and support of the guide. As always please let me know if you find any errors or have any suggestions.


----------



## Blackhawk4

Anyone seen anything on http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835103069 ? I'm wondering how it would do as a heatsink fan or rad fan.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blackhawk4* 
Anyone seen anything on http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835103069 ? I'm wondering how it would do as a heatsink fan or rad fan.

This is part of the R4 collection of fans, they generally do well as case fans but are sub par on heatsinks. They should perform decent in push/pull however but generally depends on how dense the fins are on the heatsink. A.K.A. YMMV


----------



## Deano12345

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
Thanks for the appreciation, glad it was useful for you.

Update to the guide, I took off the Vendetta 2 as it is a less popular cooler now in the community. To take its place on the roster I have added the Noctua NH-D14 to the list.

Welcome aboard Noctua!

Still looking into adding the new Venomous X and looking forward to OCN member reviews.









Thanks to all for the reps and support of the guide. As always please let me know if you find any errors or have any suggestions.









I might be doing a build for my brother,I'd be getting the VenX for it (either that or the H50).I can provide a review if I do get it









Also,I've updated my Cable Managment guide


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Deano12345*


I might be doing a build for my brother,I'd be getting the VenX for it (either that or the H50).I can provide a review if I do get it









Also,I've updated my Cable Managment guide










Read on a couple more VenX OCN reviews as of late, will definitely be adding it in soon when I get a good amount of time to update my guide. Looking forward to your review









Thanks for your continued work to your guide Dean









My link to your guide still works right?


----------



## Deano12345

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
Read on a couple more VenX OCN reviews as of late, will definitely be adding it in soon when I get a good amount of time to update my guide. Looking forward to your review









Thanks for your continued work to your guide Dean









My link to your guide still works right?

Yes,still works









Gonna have to look into some reviews on the VenX,see which fans are best


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deano12345* 
Gonna have to look into some reviews on the VenX,see which fans are best

The fin density seems to be a bit looser than the TRUE rev.A, which means any decent 25mm fan will work great; think along the lines of medium-speed Yates, Sharkoon Silent Eagle 2000s, S-Flex Fs/Gs, ZM-F3s, and GT AP-15s. Of course, any 38mm fan will do just as well.


----------



## Deano12345

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


The fin density seems to be a bit looser than the TRUE rev.A, which means any decent 25mm fan will work great; think along the lines of medium-speed Yates, Sharkoon Silent Eagle 2000s, S-Flex Fs/Gs, ZM-F3s, and GT AP-15s. Of course, any 38mm fan will do just as well.


My Nexus real silents will do perfect then,once I fix them


----------



## Calvin.Lee

Hi guys,

New here and this is my first post. Sorry if this has been posted before.

Hope we have some forumes here using a TJ-09 with the Megahalem HSF.

When the Megahalem HSF is mounted to the case, I cannot untilise the TJ-09 motherboard tray as the HSF is a little too high to clear the case motherboard tray compartment.

Is there anyway I can resolve this, or do I have to look for alternative CPU coolers if I insist on using the motherboard tray?

If so, any recommendation of coolers to replace the Megahalem HSF?

Thank you very much.

Regards,
Calvin


----------



## Tator Tot

Nothing you can really do about it.

If you are looking for a shorter heatsink that will work, I would look at these coolers: (in the order specified)
Thermalright APX-140 w/ 1156 Bolt-thru kit & Delta AFC1212D (will allow you to overclock alot.)
Scythe Zipang 2 w/ S-Flex F(modest overclocking)
Scythe Shuriken Rev. B w/ S-Flex F


----------



## KLK93

May I correct something?

The GT has double ball bearing







.

Great guide BTW.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KLK93*


May I correct something?

The GT has double ball bearing







.

Great guide BTW.


Gentle Typhoons?


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KLK93*


May I correct something?

The GT has double ball bearing







.

Great guide BTW.


O you









Thanks for the correction +rep


----------



## gerikoh

best fan for heatsink from newegg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835213005

out of stock though, but it's better than san ace, with tolerable noise


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gerikoh*


best fan for heatsink from newegg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835213005

out of stock though, but it's better than san ace, with tolerable noise










How is it better than a San Ace, static pressure is nice at 11.48mmH20, but does it undervolt well?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gerikoh*


best fan for heatsink from newegg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835213005

out of stock though, but it's better than san ace, with tolerable noise










I can almost guarantee you it won't undervolt as well, and especially not carry the voltage-to-performance ratio that San Aces blitz every other fan at.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


I can almost guarantee you it won't undervolt as well, and especially not carry the voltage-to-performance ratio that San Aces blitz every other fan at.


I wouldn't be surprised if they do though, the Delta AFB1212SH-PWM's undervolt really well. And I would say sound better than San Ace's at 7v & Delta's at 50% (PWM, so you can't really say a voltage)


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I wouldn't be surprised if they do though, the Delta AFB1212SH-PWM's undervolt really well. And I would say sound better than San Ace's at 7v & Delta's at 50% (PWM, so you can't really say a voltage)


Well, being a PWM fan, that's a different story, especially since you can supply MUCH more power to a PWM fan than an analogue one.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gerikoh*


best fan for heatsink from newegg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835213005

out of stock though, but it's better than san ace, with tolerable noise










And how does it differ that much from the Delta I already have linked besides this is non PWM and the one I have linked is PWM which is generally better for a CPU fan, yes?


----------



## gerikoh

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


I can almost guarantee you it won't undervolt as well, and especially not carry the voltage-to-performance ratio that San Aces blitz every other fan at.


how can you say that? most delta fans are decent undervolters.

and also, isn't the f00 different from the non f00 version?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Well, being a PWM fan, that's a different story, especially since you can supply MUCH more power to a PWM fan than an analogue one.


What I'm saying is (to my knowledge) all of the Delta AFB series fans (PWM or Not) are all the same relative design. And are rated the same.

IE: the AFB1212SH comes in versions. 1 is a 4 Pin PWM the other is 3 Pin Voltage adjusted. And then two version for each, a 12v & 24v model.


----------



## LIU_ZOMG

ethanol should work too right?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gerikoh*


how can you say that? most delta fans are decent undervolters.


Well I never said they were bad undervolters, just that San Aces have always been better. If you want raw power, they do that, too.


----------



## gerikoh

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


And how does it differ that much from the Delta I already have linked besides this is non PWM and the one I have linked is PWM which is generally better for a CPU fan, yes?


what link? i only see a *25mm* AFC1212D-PWM fan there


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


And how does it differ that much from the Delta I already have linked besides this is non PWM and the one I have linked is PWM which is generally better for a CPU fan, yes?


Depends, PWM is controlled almost exclusively by the BIOS, while you can use Software, Fan Controllers, voltage reduction wires, ect for nonPWM fans.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gerikoh*


how can you say that? most delta fans are decent undervolters.

and also, isn't the f00 different from the non f00 version?


There's two versions, the R00 & F00. And IIRC, the only difference between the two is one's a 3pin connector, the other is a 4pin molex.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gerikoh*


what link? i only see a *25mm* AFC1212D-PWM fan there










Well that 25mm fan has more static pressure then the 38mm fan you linked....


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
Well that 25mm fan has more static pressure then the 38mm fan you linked....









The AFB1212HHE-F00 is 11.48mmH20
The AFB1212SH-PWM is 10.92mmH20

Which one wins again?


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
The AFB1212HHE-F00 is 11.48mmH20
The AFB1212SH-PWM is 10.92mmH20

Which one wins again?









Hrmmm can you link the info Tator? THIS site gave 9.00mm....wierd. It was the only place I could find the static pressure rating of that fan model.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Hrmmm can you link the info Tator? THIS site gave 9.00mm....wierd. It was the only place I could find the static pressure rating of that fan model.


Post #277 links to Delta's page on that series of fans.

You can get the info there.

FYI: Always go to the companies sites first when it comes to NMB-MAT (Panaflo) Sanyo Denki (San Ace) or Delta


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Post #277 links to Delta's page on that series of fans.

You can get the info there.

FYI: Always go to the companies sites first when it comes to NMB-MAT (Panaflo) Sanyo Denki (San Ace) or Delta


Agreed, but you'd think google being all knowing that they would link to that pdf









Oh well...38mm vs 25mm I think it comes mighty close


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Agreed, but you'd think google being all knowing that they would link to that pdf









Oh well...38mm vs 25mm I think it comes mighty close










All things considered, I would go:
AFB1212SH-PWM for air cooling. 
AFB1212HHE-F00 for water cooling.

Though, this is considering the radiators (heat-sinks are radiators FYI) you are attaching these fans to, have the adequate FPI (fins per inch) & surface area to actually warranty the need of such high powered fans.


----------



## Shadowclock

Added a section for silencing your case in the "Tricks" section for Behemoth777's guide.

Also added the VenomousX on the list of CPU Coolers.


----------



## Behemoth777

Thanks for the mention of my thread in your guide


----------



## izallica

My temp 965be @4ghz 1.58v fulload 64-66. Hsf sunbeam ccf+panaflo 3600rpm. This is normal or should i change it with true black ?


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *izallica*


My temp 965be @4ghz 1.58v fulload 64-66. Hsf sunbeam ccf+panaflo 3600rpm. This is normal or should i change it with true black ?


If you have a TRUE black then you would be better off. If you don't have it there are better options for the price.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *izallica*


My temp 965be @4ghz 1.58v fulload 64-66. Hsf sunbeam ccf+panaflo 3600rpm. This is normal or should i change it with true black ?


You'll need to get your lap on to really see a benefit. But you should do better with it. Or a Megahalems.


----------



## izallica

^ Okay, thanks a lot

I will sell my sunbeam to buy true

Sory about my bad english


----------



## godofdeath

what happens when:
You have a graphics card at the bottom most pci-e x16 slot (one of them dual slot video cards)
and
Below it (when case is upright) the psu is there.

Both SUCK air to cool it, do they get adequate air?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


what happens when:
You have a graphics card at the bottom most pci-e x16 slot (one of them dual slot video cards)
and
Below it (when case is upright) the psu is there.

Both SUCK air to cool it, do they get adequate air?


Depends on the case. Some cases (like my Antec 300 & NZXT Beta EVO) have a fan on the side panel right there, which draws cool air in, so they have plenty of air no matter what. Some other cases that don't have a fan there have a fan in front of the PSU and an intake fan in front that draw plenty of air into the case to balance things out.


----------



## JeevusCompact

Thermalright Venomous X

Just one or two question's in here. Before I hop all over this HS







.[Sounds very promising]

The above, you stated its lapped already, it comes lapped from frozen cpu?
The reason I ask, is that, I cannot find any info in that link stating that it is lapped.

Also if I do go for this HS, I was thinking of push/pull setup on it with 2 Sanyo Denki "Either newer or older model, which ever I may find in US.".
How would I go about mounting the two Denki's to the Ven-X HS?


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JeevusCompact*


Thermalright Venomous X

Just one or two question's in here. Before I hop all over this HS







.[Sounds very promising]

The above, you stated its lapped already, it comes lapped from frozen PC?
The reason I ask, is that, I cannot find any info in that link stating that it is lapped.

Also if I do go for this HS, I was thinking of push/pull setup on it with 2 Sanyo Denki "Either newer or older model, which ever I may find in US.".
How would I go about mounting the two Denki's to the Ven-X HS?


The fact that it has an extremely polished base, not that it is completely flat but it is made specifically for intel chips at this point. Lapping the heatsink with out lapping the IHS in conjunction would probably do nothing to improve temps.

As stated in my guide 1 Sanyo Denki 38mm fan would be ample to cool the heatsink but more air flow never hurt anything


----------



## Tator Tot

Shadow, you should add Rosewill RFX-120-K's to the list of 25mm fans. 3.9mmH20, double ball bearing, 87CFM 38.15dBA

These are very nice fans, obviously though, they are industrial fans (IE: What you would pull from workstation.) 
Haven't figured out which though.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Shadow, you should add Rosewill RFX-120-K's to the list of 25mm fans. 3.9mmH20, double ball bearing, 87CFM 38.15dBA

These are very nice fans, obviously though, they are industrial fans (IE: What you would pull from workstation.) 
Haven't figured out which though.


Looks like a sturdy build and good specs.....got anymore insight on them Tator? Haven't seen a thing on them. Rosewill aren't terrible in all things but they do lean towards a "Payless" brand to me.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
Looks like a sturdy build and good specs.....got anymore insight on them Tator? Haven't seen a thing on them. Rosewill aren't terrible in all things but they do lean towards a "Payless" brand to me.

Got two of them, besides the fact that they sound like ball bearing fans, (not a con, they just make different sound apposed to other bearings) they work better than my Yate Loon High's on my Xigg and dropped the load temp another 2*C. They are very nice, under volt well.

Definitely some re-branded fans from somewhere though. Need to find out which though.

Also, included black grill & PCI fan controller are very nice.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Got two of them, besides the fact that they sound like ball bearing fans, (not a con, they just make different sound apposed to other bearings) they work better than my Yate Loon High's on my Xigg and dropped the load temp another 2*C. They are very nice, under volt well.

Definitely some re-branded fans from somewhere though. Need to find out which though.

Also, included black grill & PCI fan controller are very nice.

Sound awesome...need some static pressure specs to see if I should add it to case fans and/or heatsink fans section.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
Sound awesome...need some static pressure specs to see if I should add it to case fans and/or heatsink fans section.

Heatsink.

While they are fine Case fans, you don't need that much airflow in general, and for the most part, you can get quieter fan (not by dBA but by pitch) for case fans.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Heatsink.

While they are fine Case fans, you don't need that much airflow in general, and for the most part, you can get quieter fan (not by dBA but by pitch) for case fans.

Performance heatsink fans alongside the Yates they go. How would you rate them against the HS Yates?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
Performance heatsink fans alongside the Yates they go. How would you rate them against the HS Yates?

Better.

I would say:
Delta AFB1212SH-PWM
Scythe Gentle Typhoon AP-15's
Rosewill RFX-120's
Scythe S-Flex G's
Yate Loon High Speeds
Xigmatek XLF-X1253/4/5's

Though, that's just out of my general experience. Though, the Rosewill's could potentially have better GT AP-15's. They are not tested yet, but the Rosewill's have 3.9mmH20 to GT AP15's 2.87mmH20


----------



## Shadowclock

Strickly speaking on performance it looks good but how about the noise and tone of the fan in comparison? Gonna hit up some lunch, will convo when I get back


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Strickly speaking on performance it looks good but how about the noise and tone of the fan in comparison? Gonna hit up some lunch, will convo when I get back










Sorry about that drop out man I bounced a few classes, donated blood, and then had new parts arrive today. (More HDD's







)

Either way, when they are in the Blowing up or Down position, they sound better than Yates, on their sides, they sound about the same but the Yates are just a bit quieter.

The Tone it self is a bit more bass-filled. It's a deeper sound, but nothing horrible.

I'd record something, but I don't have the equipment to do so.


----------



## Tator Tot

Just a small little note: I might be able to test the NZXT Fans that come in the new Classic Series (Beta, Beta EVO, Gamma, M59, Alpha, Tempest EVO.)

They are not Retail fans, but they are very quiet, push a fair amount of air (by feel) and have a potentially nice blade design.

NZXT Hasn't said yet if they'll market them as Case fans that you can buy separately. But I'm going to give them a few runs, and see how they do with filters, and different fan grills (billeted, honeycomb, circles)


----------



## bunzrok

Great thread, helped me out a lot when picking my fan and cooler setup.


----------



## Wolfeshaman

I agree with the poster above. this is a great thread. i esp liked the uber cheap way of making a dust filter. (though ill probably just buy regular ones). the pos pressure is def something good to know. +rep (ShadowClock)


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bunzrok*


Great thread, helped me out a lot when picking my fan and cooler setup.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wolfeshaman*


I agree with the poster above. this is a great thread. i esp liked the uber cheap way of making a dust filter. (though ill probably just buy regular ones). the pos pressure is def something good to know. +rep (ShadowClock)


Glad you both found it useful, now take what you have learned and share with the community


----------



## Shadowclock

Updated: Added link to OCN trusted vendors worldwide in my Favorite Vendors List section.


----------



## liberalelephant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Updated: Added link to OCN trusted vendors worldwide in my Favorite Vendors List section.


Add the Cogage Arrow







. It's the IFX-14's successor.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *liberalelephant*


Add the Cogage Arrow







. It's the IFX-14's successor.


I will take out the IFX-14 and replace it with the Arrow if you have a solid trusted review on it for me to check out liberal?


----------



## liberalelephant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


I will take out the IFX-14 and replace it with the Arrow if you have a solid trusted review on it for me to check out liberal?










xbit did one if you trust them.....will edit with linky....it basically lagged the NH-D14 at low and medium speeds and caught up with high speed fans IIRC.

edit: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coo...-zalman_6.html

and

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coo...x_5.html#sect0


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *liberalelephant*


xbit did one if you trust them.....will edit with linky....it basically lagged the NH-D14 at low and medium speeds and caught up with high speed fans IIRC.

edit: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coo...-zalman_6.html

and

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coo...x_5.html#sect0


Xbit is blocked at work so I will have to get back with you on that one. Anyone else wanting to chime in on the IFX/Cogage debate feel free to give your input.

I am sure I will be replacing it but I want to do my research before putting in my extra notes and spec info into the guide.

+rep for the suggestions Liberal


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Xbit is blocked at work so I will have to get back with you on that one. Anyone else wanting to chime in on the IFX/Cogage debate feel free to give your input.

I am sure I will be replacing it but I want to do my research before putting in my extra notes and spec info into the guide.

+rep for the suggestions Liberal


Arrow is a slightly re-designed IFX that's supposed to have a larger accessibility of fans due to a lower FPI

Also, Xbix Put's it like this

OC'd i7 
Noctua D14
VenX
TRUE C
Arrow

Ranked best to worst, all hitting an 81-83*C temp


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Arrow is a slightly re-designed IFX that's supposed to have a larger accessibility of fans due to a lower FPI

Also, Xbix Put's it like this

OC'd i7
Noctua D14
VenX
TRUE C
Arrow

Ranked best to worst, all hitting an 81-83*C temp

...Where is Mega in there according to them? How does the Arrow shape up in regards to needing lapping and how is the mounting...both the shortcomings of the original IFX.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


...Where is Mega in there according to them? How does the Arrow shape up in regards to needing lapping and how is the mounting...both the shortcomings of the original IFX.


Same mounts as the IFX14, same stupid base that all Thermalright's have.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Same mounts as the IFX14, same stupid base that all Thermalright's have.


Well that's poo...obviously they didn't listen to their customers when revising this one. Still sounds better then the original but they could have done so much more.


----------



## liberalelephant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Well that's poo...obviously they didn't listen to their customers when revising this one. Still sounds better then the original but they could have done so much more.


I am thinking they are reserving those improvements for a Thermalright branded update to the IFX 14 since Cogage is their budget brand....although $70 is a bit pricey for a budget brand heatsink lol.

The only reason I think this is because I have been harassing Thermalright and Prolimatech, trying to get them to make a twin tower 6 heatpipe heatsink w/ a VenomX type mounting system and space for a 38mm fan in the center







. Thermalright emailed me back and said "we may have a heatsink just like this under consideration for mass production"....







.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *liberalelephant*


I am thinking they are reserving those improvements for a Thermalright branded update to the IFX 14 since Cogage is their budget brand....although $70 is a bit pricey for a budget brand heatsink lol.

The only reason I think this is because I have been harassing Thermalright and Prolimatech, trying to get them to make a twin tower 6 heatpipe heatsink w/ a VenomX type mounting system and space for a 38mm fan in the center







. Thermalright emailed me back and said "we may have a heatsink just like this under consideration for mass production"....







.


Well hopefully they will listen to you....can't say I would use such a cooler myself as the NH-D14 is beyond to large for me already


----------



## liberalelephant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Well hopefully they will listen to you....can't say I would use such a cooler myself as the NH-D14 is beyond to large for me already










Yea the market would be rather small but having the performance crown in your product lineup is always advantageous even if you don't move a high volume of them. If the heatsink I've described above was produced, I really don't see how air cooling could get any better.....then again I said that about the TRUE, and the Mega, then the NH-D14 and VenomX....lol


----------



## Tator Tot

IFX/Arrow/D14 w/ 39mm space in the middle.....









Though, the the Twin Tower style coolers work really well if you make the middle a wind tunnel with a shroud and have 25's on the sides (2 Delta AFB1212SH-PWM's personally.)

Though, I ask of 3 things right now for heatsinks:
1.) I want a new APX-14 with universal mounting. 
2.) I want a Twin Tower with 39mm middle space & universal mounting out of the box
3.) More new high FPI Tower coolers that come with a high power fan like the Delta AFB1212SH-PWM.


----------



## Kitarist

Great Guide!!!

Thanks!!!


----------



## flamingoyster

Question about fan controllers:

If a fan controller is rated up to 20W, and you're using a 12W rated fan, will the fan controller only put out 12W if its knob is turned to max, or will it put out 20W?

Basically I'm wondering if the "max speed" setting on a fan controller is relative to what the fan is rated for wattage wise.

Edit: Does a 9g...h101 have a low enough rated wattage (or is it current that matters? either way the question stands) to be plugged directly into a mobo i.e. my bloodrage?


----------



## Tator Tot

You'll need to find out for sure, but those fans use 5watts each (roughly, it's slightly less.)

Also, a fan controllers max output is determined by what is drawing from it. So if you put a 2w fan on a 20w controller, its' still only sucking 2w.


----------



## flamingoyster

Thank you! That's exactly what I was wondering


----------



## ROM3000

Hey everyone. I just installed a Noctua NH-U12P in my case. Unfortunately, my top exhaust fan has been reduced to almost non-functional because there is roughly only 1-2 mm of clearance between the HSF and fan. Would I benefit at all from adding a different fan in there? I'm assuming I would need a fan with higher static pressure? Also would a thin fan work better, such as a 20 mm version? Some recommendations would be great. Lastly, here's a picture of the distance between HSF and fan.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ROM3000*


Hey everyone. I just installed a Noctua NH-U12P in my case. Unfortunately, my top exhaust fan has been reduced to almost non-functional because there is roughly only 1-2 mm of clearance between the HSF and fan. Would I benefit at all from adding a different fan in there? I'm assuming I would need a fan with higher static pressure? Also would a thin fan work better, such as a 20 mm version? Some recommendations would be great. Lastly, here's a picture of the distance between HSF and fan.


The top exhaust is made to expel any remaining hot air that is rising from your case. Even if it is a mere 1-2 mm from your heatsink it is still performing that job. Getting a thinner fan will just degrade the amount of air that is being exhausted due to those thinner fans having less performance.

Short Answer: Don't worry about it.


----------



## ROM3000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


The top exhaust is made to expel any remaining hot air that is rising from your case. Even if it is a mere 1-2 mm from your heatsink it is still performing that job. Getting a thinner fan will just degrade the amount of air that is being exhausted due to those thinner fans having less performance.

Short Answer: Don't worry about it.


Shadowclock, thanks for the quick reply. I just feel odd knowing that I went from being able to feel the air being pushed up to feeling almost nothing after installing the HSF. Either way I'll try not to worry about it and keep overclocking!


----------



## JeevusCompact

Wanna thank you Shadowclock for this guide, with it, I was able to find out about the venomous x and good fans & because of it, I have what I have for a HS & fans







.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JeevusCompact* 
Wanna thank you Shadowclock for this guide, with it, I was able to find out about the venomous x and good fans & because of it, I have what I have for a HS & fans







.

Thanks for the props Jeevus, glad my guide could be of help









You have helped me receive my 300th rep


----------



## blizzzy

I noticed that the sanyo denki fan on your chart(9G1212H101) is a slightly different model than the one on the 38mm description (9G1212H1011)

Which is the actual right you test?


----------



## ehume

San Ace fans ending -011 have no "ribs" - an enclosed mounting screw path between flanges. -01 fans have those ribs. For information on converting -01 fans to -011 fans see this thread.


----------



## ai7lcy

Hello folks, I just installed a Delta (AFB 1212HHE) 120 CFM fan on the CPU heatsink in a push pull config with the stock CM heatsink fan( Delta push, CM fan pull). However the temps haven't dropped one bit. Is this how it is supposed to be ? I thought at least 2-3 degrees decrement would be expected ?


----------



## Tator Tot

Are you talking about load temps or idle temps?

What TIM are you using?

Did you take off the CM fan to see if that helped, that delta will burn up your CM in Push/Pull


----------



## ai7lcy

Woah.

1. I am talking of idle temps.

2. CM Thermal Fusion 400

3. No I didn't take the CM fan off. No idea why I should. Will do, if you say so.

@ "..it will burn your CM"....







why ? What should I do now ?

Thanks for replying.


----------



## Hans2k

1. Idle temps dont mean anything, try load.

3. The Delta will make the cm fan spin too fast so it will burn up.


----------



## ai7lcy

^^Thanks for replying. I will get back to this thread once I have run the load tests.

In the meantime, I have taken out the CM stock heatsink fan. Would installing another Delta (same model as the one pushing air into the heatsink) fan in push/pull config be ok ? or does that also have potential problems ?


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ai7lcy* 
^^Thanks for replying. I will get back to this thread once I have run the load tests.

In the meantime, I have taken out the CM stock heatsink fan. Would installing another Delta (same model as the one pushing air into the heatsink) fan in push/pull config be ok ? or does that also have potential problems ?

Considering the sheer power of the Delta fan I don't believe adding a push pull for the CM 212+ will help much. I think you have already reached the "terminal velocity" at which more air flow won't help anymore. However, normally yes getting the same model fan would be ideal in a push/pull config. You can certainly try it though


----------



## ai7lcy

^^Thanks for the assurance !









My eyeballs literally popped out after reading Tator Tot's post.
Oh well, yet another one goes into my tech embarrassing moments.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ai7lcy* 
^^Thanks for the assurance !









My eyeballs literally popped out after reading Tator Tot's post.
Oh well, yet another one goes into my tech embarrassing moments.









We're all hear to learn. I still learn things from Tator at least once a weak


----------



## ai7lcy

Hehe yes.

Btw, just ran the stress test (blend, 8 torture test threads) for 20 minutes & yes, temps are lesser by 3-4 degrees compared to previous configs.

Cheers !


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ai7lcy*


Hehe yes.

Btw, just ran the stress test (blend, 8 torture test threads) for 20 minutes & yes, temps are lesser by 3-4 degrees compared to previous configs.

Cheers !


So with the single Delta vs Delta + CM fan you got a drop of 3-4c? Very nice.


----------



## ai7lcy

Lol no, its a Delta + Delta Vs. Delta +CM.

I couldn't just look at the other Delta lying on the table !


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ai7lcy*


Lol no, its a Delta + Delta Vs. Delta +CM.

I couldn't just look at the other Delta lying on the table !










ah, ic....can you check what a single delta difference would be for kicks and giggles?


----------



## ai7lcy

I can tell about the idle temps regarding that. With single Delta, idle temps (with an instance of firefox running), varied between 39-41. With two Deltas, idle temps(again, with an instance of firefox running) stood at 38 degrees. Occasionally, for a second or two, went to 39 degrees. Maybe these temps are not that revealing, will check regarding load temps some time soon.


----------



## ehume

Y'know, running your fans on auto, the fans will run slowly and the idle temp will rise until it gets your MB's attention. Then the rpm picks up a tad and the idle temp either drops or rises no further. In such a situation, idle temps represent your mb's comfort level, not any measure of your fan's virtues.

Of course, you can run your fans at max all the time. Have fun with that.


----------



## ai7lcy

^^Yup, I am ware of that. I can't risk connecting those Delta fans to the mobo (have read a few reports on such high wattage fans going kaput connecting to the mobo). They get power from the PSU directly, running at max speed, making quite some...sweet noise.


----------



## blizzzy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ehume* 
San Ace fans ending -011 have no "ribs" - an enclosed mounting screw path between flanges. -01 fans have those ribs. For information on converting -01 fans to -011 fans see this thread.

Hey,

Thanks for the answer.
Do -01's work out of the box with venomous-X or do I still need to convert it?
Are there any down sides in using ribs against ribless in my setting? I can't find any -011s anywhere even chilledpc is out of stock.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blizzzy* 
Hey,

Thanks for the answer.
Do -01's work out of the box with venomous-X or do I still need to convert it?
Are there any down sides in using ribs against ribless in my setting? I can't find any -011s anywhere even chilledpc is out of stock.

You'll need to convert them if you want to use the clips.

If, on the other hand, you don't want to convert the fans, you can use Zipties or rubber bands to hold the fans in place.


----------



## ehume

The clips for the Megahalems go around the outside of the fan, so if you don't use a shroud you don't need to convert the fan. With other heatsinks you must convert it.

But what's the problem? A little hacksaw work and you're done. One of the correspondents on that thread broke off the cut walls with his fingers - no need even for pliers. The more difficult issu for some will be hooking up wires. Your choices are to solder a fan tail, crimp a fan tail, or feed the wires into a plug. All of those are much more involved than converting a -101 to a -1011.


----------



## UltimateGamerXFX

Hey..umm... just a quick Yes-No Question. Can i use a hair dryer instead of canned air? u know, for my GPU and CPU coolers, they're full of dust ^^ And i'm too lazy to go buy canned air........


----------



## Tator Tot

Hairdryers can cause static.


----------



## UltimateGamerXFX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Hairdryers can cause static.


Oh ok then! gotta stop being lazy i guess....


----------



## ai7lcy

Hello again folks. I have got a heatsink-specific temps query(CM Hyper 212 Plus). Hope its not the wrong place to ask.

At *3.6 GHz*, *1.216V* load temps after 13 hours of Prime (blend test) were ~75 degrees. Is this fine or should the temps be lower ? If it needs mentioning, the heatsink is placed horizontally (parallel to the pci-e card slots).

TIM used- CM Thermal Fusion 400.


----------



## agent__551

hey,, now that the thread is updated, Why did u ignore the OCZ vendetta 2 and the new Zalman cooler?

cuz that is all i have @ local stores and i need to know where do they stand
plz


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ai7lcy*


Hello again folks. I have got a heatsink-specific temps query(CM Hyper 212 Plus). Hope its not the wrong place to ask.

At *3.6 GHz*, *1.216V* load temps after 13 hours of Prime (blend test) were ~75 degrees. Is this fine or should the temps be lower ? If it needs mentioning, the heatsink is placed horizontally (parallel to the pci-e card slots).

TIM used- CM Thermal Fusion 400.


Those temps are a tad warm. Lookin at what case you have, you'll want to re-mount it so your cooler blows out the back.

Also, CM-TF 400 is a bad paste, you'll wan to look at something better like ICD7, MX-3, or Shin Etsu x23

Possibly a Push/Pull setup as well though.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *agent__551*


hey,, now that the thread is updated, Why did u ignore the OCZ vendetta 2 and the new Zalman cooler?

cuz that is all i have @ local stores and i need to know where do they stand
plz










Which Zalman?

And Vendetta 2 = Xigmatek S1283


----------



## agent__551

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Which Zalman?

And Vendetta 2 = Xigmatek S1283

Zalman CNPS 10X Extreme

and will it differ what CPU i use it for


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *agent__551*


Zalman CNPS 10X Extreme

and will it differ what CPU i use it for


Been discussed in a couple different threads before. Most of the vets here at OCN agree that Zalman is generally overpriced for what it does. If you can get it on sale for $45 or less it is worth it but the reviews that put this cooler at the top in most people's opinions are way off.


----------



## ai7lcy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Those temps are a tad warm. Lookin at what case you have, you'll want to re-mount it so your cooler blows out the back.


Hello, thanks for the reply.

If I mount it vertically, isn't there a chance of the Delta fan burning my stock exhaust CM fan ?(as pointed out by you in my earlier posts on the thread regarding Delta fans) I am saying this because the Delta fans are 38 mm thick, so there isn't much space left between the heatsink fan & the case exhaust fan.

Quote:



Also, CM-TF 400 is a bad paste, you'll wan to look at something better like ICD7, MX-3, or Shin Etsu x23


Thanks for pointing out. In my region, I can get MX-2 easily. Is that fine, or is MX-3 considerbaly better ?

Quote:



Possibly a Push/Pull setup as well though.


Currently in push/pull only. Both Delta fans.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ai7lcy*


Hello, thanks for the reply.

If I mount it vertically, isn't there a chance of the Delta fan burning my stock exhaust CM fan ?(as pointed out by you in my earlier posts on the thread regarding Delta fans) I am saying this because the Delta fans are 38 mm thick, so there isn't much space left between the heatsink fan & the case exhaust fan.


Yes you would be correct, it does have a chance to burn out the fan. If you go with what Tator is saying you can either let it run there or gut the CM make it a shroud for the Delta pull and have no fan set on your case exhaust.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ai7lcy*


Thanks for pointing out. In my region, I can get MX-2 easily. Is that fine, or is MX-3 considerbaly better ?


Difference would be 1-2c maybe.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ai7lcy*


Currently in push/pull only. Both Delta fans.


Solid choice, I too believe you are a tad warm for some reason. Did you use the suggested HDT cooler method of applying the TIM?


----------



## ai7lcy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*

Yes you would be correct, it does have a chance to burn out the fan. If you go with what Tator is saying you can either let it run there or gut the CM make it a shroud for the Delta pull and have no fan set on your case exhaust.


Thanks for the suggestion. Will surely look into the necessary mod for this.

Quote:



Difference would be 1-2c maybe.


Thanks for confirming.

Quote:



Solid choice, I too believe you are a tad warm for some reason. Did you use the suggested HDT cooler method of applying the TIM?


I'll tell you what I did chronologically:
1. For the first install of the heatsink, I used the credit card method, spreading evenly across the surface. But somehow it never looked perfect to me. Filled the gaps between the copper pipes using thin lines of paste.

2. Second install, I put a blob in the middle, and four little dots around the corners. Put a little more amount of paste between the copper pipes this time.

Second method gave me better temps, but the margin wasn't much. In fact 1-2 degrees only.

I guess I took the second method from Anandtech, which I guess is the method for these HDT type coolers. If you could tell me the exact method, that'd be really great.

Also, this "tad bit" warm is making me slightly paranoid (sorry). If you could tell me how much warmer it is getting compared to others, that would be nice too.









Thanks for the reply.


----------



## agent__551

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Been discussed in a couple different threads before. Most of the vets here at OCN agree that Zalman is generally overpriced for what it does. If you can get it on sale for $45 or less it is worth it but the reviews that put this cooler at the top in most people's opinions are way off.


thx


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ai7lcy*


Thanks for the suggestion. Will surely look into the necessary mod for this.

Thanks for confirming.

I'll tell you what I did chronologically:
1. For the first install of the heatsink, I used the credit card method, spreading evenly across the surface. But somehow it never looked perfect to me. Filled the gaps between the copper pipes using thin lines of paste.

2. Second install, I put a blob in the middle, and four little dots around the corners. Put a little more amount of paste between the copper pipes this time.

Second method gave me better temps, but the margin wasn't much. In fact 1-2 degrees only.

I guess I took the second method from Anandtech, which I guess is the method for these HDT type coolers. If you could tell me the exact method, that'd be really great.

Also, this "tad bit" warm is making me slightly paranoid (sorry). If you could tell me how much warmer it is getting compared to others, that would be nice too.









Thanks for the reply.


The best application for HDT coolers is covered in my guide under the TIM section inside the link 80-way TIM shootout. Specifically THIS link will give you a list of TIM applications they tried.

And this is the picture of the best solution they came up with:








Gaps filled and 2 thin lines of TIM applied inbetween the heatpipes.

75c for the 212+ sounds more like a 3.8 overclock with close to 1.3v. With your clock and voltage I would expect closer to 68ish...75 isn't bad but like we said it is a "tad" bit warm.


----------



## kleecomputer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


If you choose to go with (Isopropyl alcohol) Rubbing alcohol make sure it is 80% or higher and wipe it clean and dry with lint free material like a coffee filter.


I thought of another alternative for a lint free material. You could break open a floppy disk and use the cloth/material that is housed on each side of the film. I know I have a ton of these lying around not being used.

Way to go green!


----------



## ai7lcy

@Shadowclock:

Sorry for misquoting the source, but in fact I was using that guide only, which you posted from benchmarkreviews.

I have the made the suggested changes:

1. Install the heatsink vertically (parallel to the RAM slots) and apply the TIM according to the guide (earlier, I had applied TIM to the CPU as well, but this time around, following the guide exactly, I haven't placed any TIM on the CPU.)

2. Remove the stock CM case exhaust fan, replace with Delta.

3. Delta fan pushing air into the heatsink.

Until I can mod the case for placing a shroud, I am using only one Delta fan for the heatsink.

Now, to the results: same. No change observed compared with earlier config. I am guessing the suggested paste (MX-3) can't get the temps down by 7-8 degrees. But still, I have ordered the paste, would get it in a few days.

Maybe I am still doing something not right, but I can't comprehend what that is.

A pic of the config:


----------



## ChickenInferno

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 

Thermalright Venomous X - Already Lapped/shiny base, tested/benched to be the newest top dog, pressure mod is included. RAM height compatibility list(Thanks JeevusCompact). Rampage II Extreme motherboard shorting issue with VenX (Thanks Juravieal)

You have probablly just saved me many hours of pain and suffering trying to figure out what is wrong tommorow. +Rep well deserved.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ai7lcy* 
2. Remove the stock CM case exhaust fan, replace with Delta.

3. Delta fan pushing air into the heatsink.

Until I can mod the case for placing a shroud, I am using only one Delta fan for the heatsink.










I am not the only person to get better results by cutting out the back grill and leaving an open hole (look at how much of that grill is solid metal). Getting rid of all that metal will allow you to put your second Delta on the exhaust side of your cooler where it will do some good.

Check out Andronikos916's posts in this thread. He dropped his temps 10c by cutting out a back grill.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ehume*


I am not the only person to get better results by cutting out the back grill and leaving an open hole (look at how much of that grill is solid metal). Getting rid of all that metal will allow you to put your second Delta on the exhaust side of your cooler where it will do some good.

Check out Andronikos916's posts in this thread. He dropped his temps 10c by cutting out a back grill.


I do believe that should help. However, I am too running out of options to help more.

Is that the lowest voltage for that clock you can get? 
Is Hyperthreading on? This can increase temps considerably with little benefit to normal computer tasks.
Is the mount on solid enough?

You might have gotten a sub par 212+...all in all the temp isn't terrible...you actually have 10c headroom still to mess with before I would consider you starting to reach questionable levels of temps. I like 75c for a 24/7 clock though.


----------



## realcyberbob

Quick question for ya'll. I have a CM 690 II Advanced, as far as adding fans and air flow goes, would it be best to just add some fans on the front or bottom or would it be better to add both front and bottom, along with the sides? It seems to me by adding fans on the sides it would mess up the air flow that's going bottom to top or front to back.


----------



## ai7lcy

@ehume: Thanks for the info & the link! 10 degrees drop is pretty cool (and surprising) !

@Shadowclock

Yup, this is the minimum safe voltage I could get.

I did try hyperthreading off, and it considerably reduced the temps (7-8 degrees drop). And I am thinking whether to keep it that way, as you yourself mentioned it doesn't matter much for everyday apps.

And yes, there's a possibility I could've got a sub-par make.

Even I was fine with the temps, just that others were getting less, so I was confused.

Thanks for all the help, really.

Cheers !


----------



## Rogue1266

Shadowclock. Great Guide you wrote up here. It will Deff. Help me sir. Thanks

Edit: Sorry for the edit. I was wondering if it would be ok with you If I can make this guide as
part of my Signature??? As you can see I have two OC'ing Guides attached.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *realcyberbob*


Quick question for ya'll. I have a CM 690 II Advanced, as far as adding fans and air flow goes, would it be best to just add some fans on the front or bottom or would it be better to add both front and bottom, along with the sides? It seems to me by adding fans on the sides it would mess up the air flow that's going bottom to top or front to back.


More air flow will help keep your system cool for sure so utilizing all fan slots would be preferred. As to the side panel fan, that is usually used as an intake fan that can blow cold air directly over your GPUs. As GPUs can be one of the hottest components in your computer the small loss in overall case temps due to a more turbulent air flow is considered perfectly fine to get much better temps on your GPU.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ai7lcy*


@ehume: Thanks for the info & the link! 10 degrees drop is pretty cool (and surprising) !

@Shadowclock

Yup, this is the minimum safe voltage I could get.

I did try hyperthreading off, and it considerably reduced the temps (7-8 degrees drop). And I am thinking whether to keep it that way, as you yourself mentioned it doesn't matter much for everyday apps.

And yes, there's a possibility I could've got a sub-par make.

Even I was fine with the temps, just that others were getting less, so I was confused.

Thanks for all the help, really.

Cheers !










HT is used for certain applications such as music/video encoding.

Oh and you're welcome...wish I could have helped more.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Rogue1266*


Shadowclock. Great Guide you wrote up here. It will Deff. Help me sir. Thanks

Edit: Sorry for the edit. I was wondering if it would be ok with you If I can make this guide as
part of my Signature??? As you can see I have two OC'ing Guides attached.


It is a public guide, feel free to distribute with no fee's


----------



## Blinkwing

Just wondering if people could help me in this thread I've posted here. I would really appreciate it because I don't know anything about fans/controllers/setups.


----------



## smokerings

Hello, awesome thread.

I'd like to make a suggestion for Papst fans to be added to the list of fans you can get from www.newark.com !


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *smokerings*


Hello, awesome thread.

I'd like to make a suggestion for Papst fans to be added to the list of fans you can get from www.newark.com !


What kind of experience to you have with those fans?


----------



## -=*HERO*=-

I dont know if this has been posted i read a bunch of pages and decided to post this. if u have a graphics card that has rear exhaust vents i suggest this mod to your case, place a fan in the back of your case (i used double sided adhesive) and have it draw air from your GPU and blow it away, my GPU droped 10c and my CPU dropped about 5c. and i know the fan is filthy.


----------



## realcyberbob

Doesn't seem like a bad idea, anybody else try it and have results?


----------



## ai7lcy

UPDATE: Using Arctic Cooling MX-2 instead of CM Thermal Fusion 400 with my current setup, I got a 3 degrees drop in temps at full load. Well, they are still high, but at least I know which paste to use next time. Thanks Tarot Tot for pointing out.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *-=*HERO*=-*


I dont know if this has been posted i read a bunch of pages and decided to post this. if u have a graphics card that has rear exhaust vents i suggest this mod to your case, place a fan in the back of your case (i used double sided adhesive) and have it draw air from your GPU and blow it away, my GPU droped 10c and my CPU dropped about 5c. and i know the fan is filthy.



I tried that with a 120mm Noctua fan but it obstructed 90% of my plugs in the area where it was mounted. I had to resort to this







.










P.S: In the current connfig of my CPU cooler, the side panel fan is obstructed so I cannot add the fan in the door slot. I have to remove one fan off the CPU COOLER.


----------



## Baldy

Finally manged to pull the time out to read this awesome guide!

However, I have a suggestion. Shouldn't you also include a section on what exactly is a push/pull config? Because I'm sure there are some people (including me), who do not really know about it. :/

If it's just me however, then sorry, I'm a narb. >.>


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *smokerings*


Hello, awesome thread.

I'd like to make a suggestion for Papst fans to be added to the list of fans you can get from www.newark.com !


Smokerings, do you have a specific suggestion for one. Possibly somewhere showing how they performed from user reviews?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Baldy*


Finally manged to pull the time out to read this awesome guide!

However, I have a suggestion. Shouldn't you also include a section on what exactly is a push/pull config? Because I'm sure there are some people (including me), who do not really know about it. :/

If it's just me however, then sorry, I'm a narb. >.>


Updated guide in Fan and Glossary of Terms sections. Installation note and Push/Pull definition respectively. +rep to Baldy for the latter

EDIT: Also added some more or my own opinions in the CPU Coolers section and took out the Madshrimps ranking due to it being dated and inconclusive.


----------



## seward

+1 really helpful, trying to decide if I want that Noctua monster in my new rig...otherwise, X.


----------



## smokerings

Other than the Papst Multifan 4312 120mm I found in a surplus store 6-7 years ago I don't have much experience, it has ran for years now and it runs just as good now as it did when I found it. 
Currently I just have two Antec TriCool LED fans on my Ultra120, the Papst is running at 12v MacGuyvered to a stock intel cooler on my spare rig(E5200, IP35 PRO, 8800GT)
There are several models and I believe last I looked it up mine was around 80-90cfm? So it's not quiet at 12v but 7v was quite pleasant with a lower pitched noise. www.ebmpapst.com

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ehume*


What kind of experience to you have with those fans?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Smokerings, do you have a specific suggestion for one. Possibly somewhere showing how they performed from user reviews?


----------



## ehume

Thanks smokerings. Performance PC's has some at $12.95, including some with three wires.


----------



## Cronic

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
...
And aren't suggested very often here. If you could supply some data that proves their worthyness I would be more then happy to add them. Usually would suggest 3 or more reviews along with 1 or 2 OCN member results.

I'm actually in the process of getting one of these this week. Once it gets here I'll give you a thumbs up or down. (I replied to the older quote as a search didn't yield much and the Tuniq 120 extreme still isn't on the list).

According to Frostytech and a few other reviews the cooler appears to be one of the best out there.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *smokerings*


Other than the Papst Multifan 4312 120mm I found in a surplus store 6-7 years ago I don't have much experience, it has ran for years now and it runs just as good now as it did when I found it. 
Currently I just have two Antec TriCool LED fans on my Ultra120, the Papst is running at 12v MacGuyvered to a stock intel cooler on my spare rig(E5200, IP35 PRO, 8800GT)
There are several models and I believe last I looked it up mine was around 80-90cfm? So it's not quiet at 12v but 7v was quite pleasant with a lower pitched noise. www.ebmpapst.com


If you or someone else can give me some more info on their personal experience with whatever model they use I would love to add a papst fan to the list as I have heard they are quality fans.

Unfortunately when you get into these quality fans they have a very wide range of price to them. San Ace being a perfect example. The model listed in my guide fits a perfect niche market for enthusiast users being in the appropriate price range for a very good fan. However, they do supply much more expensive fans that are basically useless to the common enthusiast due to the price.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Cronic*


I'm actually in the process of getting one of these this week. Once it gets here I'll give you a thumbs up or down. (I replied to the older quote as a search didn't yield much and the Tuniq 120 extreme still isn't on the list).

According to Frostytech and a few other reviews the cooler appears to be one of the best out there.


Not too many people here trust Frostytech and for good reason. Their "simulated" tests are basically garbage.

I try to stick with the majority opinions and I have seen a few Tuniq's out there just not enough to add them to the list as of yet.









Give me feedback when you can, its always welcome and taken into consideration.


----------



## ai7lcy

Hello folks, I will be getting my Venomous X tomorrow (hopefully), so thought I'd ask about the ideal way to use TIM on that. Of course there's the benchmarkreviews.com article, but thought I'd ask for some more first hand experiences. I was thinking that since it has a concave base surface, maybe spreading evenly on the heatsink should be avoided ? I will be using MX-2.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ai7lcy* 
Hello folks, I will be getting my Venomous X tomorrow (hopefully), so thought I'd ask about the ideal way to use TIM on that. Of course there's the benchmarkreviews.com article, but thought I'd ask for some more first hand experiences. I was thinking that since it has a concave base surface, maybe spreading evenly on the heatsink should be avoided ? I will be using MX-2.

Pea or rice grain size dot in the center and set the heatsink into place is generally the easiest and best way to apply TIM. Almost always has the best results due to the simplicity of application.


----------



## ai7lcy

I hope so. Thanks.


----------



## McLaren_F1

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
Pea or rice grain size dot in the center and set the heatsink into place is generally the easiest and best way to apply TIM. Almost always has the best results due to the simplicity of application.

So spreading apart the TIM isnt recommended?


----------



## ehume

Dear Lord! Pea sized?? C'mon, Shadowclock, you know better.

High pressure heatsinks will really squeeze the TIM. If your TIM is at all viscous (GC Extreme, for example), a pea-sized glob will make a mess of your cpu. You might even get some on the bottom surface.

Try rice-sized, but a sphere. Press it down, rotate it slightly, then torque your mounting down. On another forum I saw some results: it takes two or three days for a TIM to spread out as far as it will. This is not "setting" but just spreading. Some TIM's spread quicker than others.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *McLaren_F1*


So spreading apart the TIM isnt recommended?


Due to the above stated reasons, no it really isn't recommended in most cases.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ehume*


Dear Lord! Pea sized?? C'mon, Shadowclock, you know better.

High pressure heatsinks will really squeeze the TIM. If your TIM is at all viscous (GC Extreme, for example), a pea-sized glob will make a mess of your cpu. You might even get some on the bottom surface.

Try rice-sized, but a sphere. Press it down, rotate it slightly, then torque your mounting down. On another forum I saw some results: it takes two or three days for a TIM to spread out as far as it will. This is not "setting" but just spreading. Some TIM's spread quicker than others.


I mentioned both, some use pea sized others use rice grain. It's exactly what you stated, it really depends on the TIM and heatsink used.


----------



## Shadowclock

Updated: Replaced the IFX-14 with the Cogage Arrow in the CPU Cooler section.


----------



## Shadowclock

Updated: Section 6 Pressure...Added a "Don't Go Overboard" paragraph.


----------



## Tator Tot

You should update and remove the Dark Knight. It's being phased out for the Balder. It's an S1283 DK with Dual Fan support.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


You should update and remove the Dark Knight. It's being phased out for the Balder. It's an S1283 DK with Dual Fan support.


Same price, same fan...no dark color...same performance (stock) from what I have seen. Gonna keep the DK up just for its well "Branded" name for now. I will keep it in mind when suggesting coolers. When the Balder becomes more popular I will certainly add it.

Now, when you say phased out are you saying Xiggy isn't making the DK anymore?


----------



## Tator Tot

Correct.

Dark Knight is going out of production. They've already sold almost all Red Scorpions (Dark Knight with a Red fan instead.)

And you should still replace it with a note saying "Updated version of the Dark Knight, now supporting two fans & and 1156/1366 bolt through kits."

Also, it's fan is updated some. It's now 28dB instead of 30dB.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Correct.

Dark Knight is going out of production. They've already sold almost all Red Scorpions (Dark Knight with a Red fan instead.)

And you should still replace it with a note saying "Updated version of the Dark Knight, now supporting two fans & and 1156/1366 bolt through kits."

Also, it's fan is updated some. It's now 28dB instead of 30dB.


Updated as stated. +rep


----------



## iCeMaN57

I finally swapped my thermaltake case with my Coolmaster and notice temp drops. I need a after heat sync now and oc it


----------



## Swulle

Hello,

I've been buying a new rig for some time, and I've finally ended up with a core i5 750 processor, Xigmatek Balder processor cooler, HD 5870 gpu, f3 spinpoint hard drive, Asus e-pro mobo, 650W modular corsair power supply and a Fractal Design Define R2 case.

Link to the cases review: http://metku.net/index.html?path=rev...e-r2/index_eng and http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/201...-case-review/1

I'm going to overclock my core i5 up to 3.6-3.8 ghz, and I was thinking of the bad cooling systems of the fractal case. I've heard that if I set up some good fans to it I can overclock with it as well as as some cases more suitable for overclocking.

So, what case fans should I buy to it and how should I set them up? Should I change the fan on balder? Thanks beforehand.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Swulle*


Hello,

I've been buying a new rig for some time, and I've finally ended up with a core i5 750 processor, Xigmatek Balder processor cooler, HD 5870 gpu, f3 spinpoint hard drive, Asus e-pro mobo, 650W modular corsair power supply and a Fractal Design Define R2 case.

Link to the cases review: http://metku.net/index.html?path=rev...e-r2/index_eng and http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/201...-case-review/1

I'm going to overclock my core i5 up to 3.6-3.8 ghz, and I was thinking of the bad cooling systems of the fractal case. I've heard that if I set up some good fans to it I can overclock with it as well as as some cases more suitable for overclocking.

So, what case fans should I buy to it and how should I set them up? Should I change the fan on balder? Thanks beforehand.


Looks like you have 7 slots for fans. Use them all, and I would suggest getting a fan controller even if you only mount it on the interior of the case (for reasons already stated in the guide).

What is your budget? You could get some nice yate loons for case fans which are pretty inexpensive. Same with ZM-F3s...really you can't go wrong with any of the fans I suggested it all boils down to price and/or looks...the more you pay the more quality you get generally speaking.

The higher priced fans are usually hydro or ball bearing which tend to last longer (sleeve last long enough though). Top dog will still be the Gentle Typhoon but something that quality isn't necessary for regular case fans.

To answer your question about the Balder. The fan supplied does a great job. You could add another fan or replace and do a push/pull with Gentle Typhoons but with the stock fan you should be perfectly fine for the overclock you want.

Good luck with your build. You have some quality components there


----------



## Swulle

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Looks like you have 7 slots for fans. Use them all, and I would suggest getting a fan controller even if you only mount it on the interior of the case (for reasons already stated in the guide).

What is your budget? You could get some nice yate loons for case fans which are pretty inexpensive. Same with ZM-F3s...really you can't go wrong with any of the fans I suggested it all boils down to price and/or looks...the more you pay the more quality you get generally speaking.

The higher priced fans are usually hydro or ball bearing which tend to last longer (sleeve last long enough though). Top dog will still be the Gentle Typhoon but something that quality isn't necessary for regular case fans.

To answer your question about the Balder. The fan supplied does a great job. You could add another fan or replace and do a push/pull with Gentle Typhoons but with the stock fan you should be perfectly fine for the overclock you want.

Good luck with your build. You have some quality components there










Thank you. So, the Define R2's moduvent system of blocking some of the fan holes with bitumen plates to optimize airflow, for example front to back style, doesn't make sense?

I'm having a hard time choosing between Zalman F3, Xigmatek XLF-F1253 and SilverStone FM121 for roughly the same price. Which one do you consider to be the best option and why?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Swulle*


Thank you. So, the Define R2's moduvent system of blocking some of the fan holes with bitumen plates to optimize airflow, for example front to back style, doesn't make sense?

I'm having a hard time choosing between Zalman F3, Xigmatek XLF-F1253 and SilverStone FM121 for roughly the same price. Which one do you consider to be the best option and why?











The FM121's have some reliability issues.

The ZM F3's have more static pressure, but a weaker barring type.

The Xig F1253's have a nice baring, but a lower static pressure.

I'd just grab another Xig so you can match it to your current fan. None of them will give you much of a difference in temps.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


The FM121's have some reliability issues.

The ZM F3's have more static pressure, but a weaker barring type.

The Xig F1253's have a nice baring, but a lower static pressure.

I'd just grab another Xig so you can match it to your current fan. None of them will give you much of a difference in temps.


But they do light up your case even further then the Balder fan will. Just be aware which fans come with LEDs whether that is your kind of thing or not.


----------



## Swulle

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
The FM121's have some reliability issues.

The ZM F3's have more static pressure, but a weaker barring type.

The Xig F1253's have a nice baring, but a lower static pressure.

I'd just grab another Xig so you can match it to your current fan. None of them will give you much of a difference in temps.

I dont mind leds if they aint some neon blue eyerapes (no offense), and from the pictures I found of the Xigs, they seem to be fine.









What do you mean by nice baring and static pressure? I read some guides on these forums and none mentioned them.

Also, how should I set them up to my case? Which fan holes for intake, which for exhaust? Heres the link again: http://metku.net/index.html?path=rev...e-r2/index_eng

Thank you for your answers.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Swulle*


I dont mind leds if they aint some neon blue eyerapes (no offense), and from the pictures I found of the Xigs, they seem to be fine.









What do you mean by nice baring and static pressure? I read some guides on these forums and none mentioned them.

Also, how should I set them up to my case? Which fan holes for intake, which for exhaust? Heres the link again: http://metku.net/index.html?path=rev...e-r2/index_eng

Thank you for your answers.


















...the guide your posting on mentions different bearings and static pressure. *looks for facepalm smiley*


----------



## raisethe3

Will this be updated with the Dark Knight on the list? I don't see it in the first post. Great guide by the way!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *raisethe3* 
Will this be updated with the Dark Knight on the list? I don't see it in the first post. Great guide by the way!

It's been updated and replaced by the Xigmatek Balder SD1283, which is the same heatsink as the Dark Knight, but now it supports 2 fans natively and comes with more mounting hardware.


----------



## Blackhawk4

The Zalman Performa (or flex) should be one that's added. It's the same price a the Xigmatek Balder, cool better, can do dual 120mm fans and from reviews is only 1-2 c off from the megahalem at 3.8-4.0ghz. Out of all the zalman CPU coolers this is probably the best one they got and the only one worth buying.


----------



## Shadowclock

Not a fan of the Zalman Coolers, they have their price point but you would have to catch them on sale to be of any value. Seems that all reviewing sites are doing something OCN members are not because they always seem to perform well over what many OCN members find.

UPDATE: Removed the FC-2 from the Fan Controller list due to many issues OCN members are having with them. If you're one of the lucky ones to get a flawless controller I do agree they are great but the Quality Control for these controllers is not good enough for me to suggest them to everyone.


----------



## spacegoast

The Lamptron FC-3 has the same issue as the FC-2. When I set the fans to low, the fan controller makes a humming/buzzing noise. Also my 2 Panaflo's and my 3K Ultra Kaze make a humming noise when I lower the fan speeds. It is rather annoying.


----------



## Blackhawk4

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Not a fan of the Zalman Coolers, they have their price point but you would have to catch them on sale to be of any value. Seems that all reviewing sites are doing something OCN members are not because they always seem to perform well over what many OCN members find.

UPDATE: Removed the FC-2 from the Fan Controller list due to many issues OCN members are having with them. If you're one of the lucky ones to get a flawless controller I do agree they are great but the Quality Control for these controllers is not good enough for me to suggest them to everyone.


.....so just because your not a fan your not gonna consider adding it to the list? I'm not a huge fan either, but a good product is a good product and this is one (and probably zalman's first). The cooler is priced around Xigmatek Balder and cools better than it. I'm not talking about the 9900 or the 9700 or the CNPSX10 Extreme. The only one I'm talking about is the Zalman Performa/Flex (they are the exact same thing). Check the reviews out on it. Just because your not a fan of it doesn't mean you should just discard the company all together. I was surprised myself when I saw how good it performed and that it was actually at a good price.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blackhawk4* 
.....so just because your not a fan your not gonna consider adding it to the list? I'm not a huge fan either, but a good product is a good product and this is one (and probably zalman's first). The cooler is priced around Xigmatek Balder and cools better than it. I'm not talking about the 9900 or the 9700 or the CNPSX10 Extreme. The only one I'm talking about is the Zalman Performa/Flex (they are the exact same thing). Check the reviews out on it. Just because your not a fan of it doesn't mean you should just discard the company all together. I was surprised myself when I saw how good it performed and that it was actually at a good price.

So you have seen its performance first hand? I always ask for personal reviews from OCN members on coolers before adding them in my guide.

I am not a fan of Zalman coolers because everything they have put out has not performed up to par with many of the coolers I have suggested in their respective performance/price area. The CNPS Extreme has had at least 3 reviews that put it well over the top on review sites but no one on OCN has come up with those same results, so just because a review site says it; it doesn't mean I will add it on an OCN suggestion guide.

I always hesitate to add new information because I want to make sure the items suggested are tried and true, not new and cool. Not saying that your suggestion is either but I am looking for some "real" evidence to back your claims of which you haven't given any as of yet. Any help in that area would be much appreciated.

References to OCN veterans not liking the Zalman CNPS and not believing reviews:
HERE
and
HERE

Again, please give any solid info on your suggestion and I will take it into further consideration. I base my suggestions off of my own and/or several valued OCN members experiences. I do appreciate you trying to help out the community and look forward to your further suggestions.

Apologize if I came off as "Snarky" in my previous post.

Just for kicks and giggles here is one review I found:









I can easily deduce from what I have seen here on OCN vs what I see from their temps they are doing something way different or wrong. If I have to point it out I can. One solid thing they did point out is that the fan is horribly loud.

This one is closer:









But again...TRUE and the H50 were beat out by the Noctua 12....nope. They are doing something wrong.


----------



## TheLaw

You should add Gelid GC-Extreme to your thermal pastes. It beats everything on the market right now. Yes including AS5, MX-3 and Diamond 7. Gelid is usually crap in everything else, but this paste is beautiful.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TheLaw*


You should add Gelid GC-Extreme to your thermal pastes. It beats everything on the market right now. Yes including AS5, MX-3 and Diamond 7.


Are there any proven reviews that back you up?


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TheLaw*


You should add Gelid GC-Extreme to your thermal pastes. It beats everything on the market right now. Yes including AS5, MX-3 and Diamond 7. Gelid is usually crap in everything else, but this paste is beautiful.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Are there any proven reviews that back you up?


In the 80-way TIM review I have linked it is already listed as the 4th best TIM. Anything on that "A" page of TIMs are great. I totally agree with you its just not a personal favorite of mine because I have no personal experience with it.

EDIT: I actual think their fans have some potential depending on what you're looking for.

Going to be adding some low profile coolers in my guide here soon. Getting a lot of requests for that in the forum as of late.


----------



## TheLaw

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Are there any proven reviews that back you up?


http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/G...Extreme/4.html

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/286...nd/index5.html

http://www.vortez.co.uk/contenttelle...extreme,4.html

It is on par or better than all of the competition as shown in these articles.


----------



## TheLaw

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


In the 80-way TIM review I have linked it is already listed as the 4th best TIM. Anything on that "A" page of TIMs are great. I totally agree with you its just not a personal favorite of mine because I have no personal experience with it.

EDIT: I actual think their fans have some potential depending on what you're looking for.

Going to be adding some low profile coolers in my guide here soon. Getting a lot of requests for that in the forum as of late.


Oh ok.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
EDIT: I actual think their fans have some potential depending on what you're looking for.

I've got there fans, the temp controlled models are pretty stupid, as they stay on low 90% of the time, and they won't adjust based on the 3pin (it's sensor only.)

PWM fans are PWM, but they do go down pretty low.

There Gamer Wing series (aka, the colored/UV ones) are pretty nice ascetically speaking.

Though, at the end of the day, they're all pretty much the same. Low acoustic profiles, decent airflow. Medium static pressure. (a little less than Yates.) But they do look nice, and they don't cost alot.

Decent fans overall.

Models I've used:
120mm Temp Controlled
120mm PWM
Green Gamer Wing

EDIT: Don't buy GeLID's @ Newegg, look around PPC, FCPU, ect. Better prices, Newegg's are jacked up.

EDIT: I would like to note the rubber screws, fan sleeving, and fan controller are all pretty good quality. I don't know how many Watts/AMPs the fan controller can do.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I've got there fans, the temp controlled models are pretty stupid, as they stay on low 90% of the time, and they won't adjust based on the 3pin (it's sensor only.)

PWM fans are PWM, but they do go down pretty low.

There Gamer Wing series (aka, the colored/UV ones) are pretty nice ascetically speaking.

Though, at the end of the day, they're all pretty much the same. Low acoustic profiles, decent airflow. Medium static pressure. (a little less than Yates.) But they do look nice, and they don't cost alot.

Decent fans overall.

Models I've used:
120mm Temp Controlled
120mm PWM
Green Gamer Wing

EDIT: Don't buy GeLID's @ Newegg, look around PPC, FCPU, ect. Better prices, Newegg's are jacked up.

EDIT: I would like to note the rubber screws, fan sleeving, and fan controller are all pretty good quality. I don't know how many Watts/AMPs the fan controller can do.


I have heard several people enjoying the Gamer Wing series specifically. Good looks and the sleeving/screws/controller were good quality. Glad to see someone else found similar results. Wish they had a higher performing fan available as well. Niche market none the less, I am tempted to add them as you can never get enough "hydro" bearing type quality fans.

Anyone having the Gelids for 2+ years want to chime in









EDIT: Tator...that's you...Avatar through me off LOL...good luck on your chimpin!


----------



## Tator Tot

The Avatar throws me off as well...I think I post alot, and then I'm like "WAIT A TIC< WURZS MAI REPZ!"

Also, I don't think GELID's been producing those fans long enough to have two year owners









Also, I don't know if you knew this, but GELID is the english version of the latin word gelidus aka "Very cold/frozen/iced over"

FYI, for your LP stuff, stay away from the Slim Silence AM2 & S775. They're not good at all compared to stock coolers.

Silverstone NT07-AM2 & S775 are better

Enzotech Extreme is the best "low profile" cooler coming in at 118mm w/ fan. It's also packing a ADDA AD1212UB-A73GL & AS5

AD1212UB-A73GL = 98.6 CFM / 43.3dBA / 4.4mmH20 / Ball baring 
Spec's sheet on fan
EDIT: Checked there site, GELID's founded in 2008... so...


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


The Avatar throws me off as well...I think I post alot, and then I'm like "WAIT A TIC< WURZS MAI REPZ!"

Also, I don't think GELID's been producing those fans long enough to have two year owners









Also, I don't know if you knew this, but GELID is the english version of the latin word gelidus aka "Very cold/frozen/iced over"

FYI, for your LP stuff, stay away from the Slim Silence AM2 & S775. They're not good at all compared to stock coolers.

Silverstone NT07-AM2 & S775 are better

Enzotech Extreme is the best "low profile" cooler coming in at 118mm w/ fan. It's also packing a ADDA AD1212UB-A73GL & AS5

AD1212UB-A73GL = 98.6 CFM / 43.3dBA / 4.4mmH20 / Ball baring 
Spec's sheet on fan
EDIT: Checked there site, GELID's founded in 2008... so...










LOL at the Avatar mixup...maybe put a small tator tot hanging out of his mouth?

Can always rely on your researching skills









What would be your top 3 in LP coolers then? Stock fan seems awfully loud for the Enzo...


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
LOL at the Avatar mixup...maybe put a small tator tot hanging out of his mouth?

Can always rely on your researching skills









What would be your top 3 in LP coolers then? Stock fan seems awfully loud for the Enzo...

On BIOS control it's not to bad at Auto. But when you do load up over 80% on most boards, fans go 100% and yeah...it's loud.

Top 3 LP Coolers: (Performance)
Enzotech Extreme
Nexus LOW-7000 / Scythe Shuriken both have the same performance, but Nexus is much quieter and a much better fan than that slim slipstream. Nexus also is smaller.
Silverstone NT06E

Honorable Mention: Cooler Master GeminII S, just behind the pack, but a meh fan on it.


----------



## Tator Tot

Also, this Evercool cooler looks decent. But I've not used it, so I can't say.


----------



## TheLaw

I just got the GC-Extreme in the mail today. I will be testing it on the new cooler and seeing temps. I will post them. Right now idling at about 40C and air temperature is around 25C (no air conditioning). See if we can get them to drop even with hot room temperatures.


----------



## Danny Boy

I'll vouch for the 212+ being a great cooler, with push/pull it beats the stock h50 by 2-3C at idle.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Danny Boy* 
I'll vouch for the 212+ being a great cooler, with push/pull it beats the stock h50 by 2-3C at idle.


...and idle temps are important?


----------



## Danny Boy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wishmaker* 
...and idle temps are important?









yes they are, otherwise people would not even considering posting idle temps at all, yet they do. Just an FYI, my load temps dropped 6C


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Danny Boy*


yes they are, otherwise people would not even considering posting idle temps at all, yet they do. Just an FYI, my load temps dropped 6C


From ChickenInferno's post HERE:

Quote:



TJ Max is an inherently unreliable and inaccurate method of measuring idle/low temperatures. Due to the way it was designed, the readings are so inaccurate under 50C that Intel says they can only be read as a number temperature below 50C. As the temperature approaches TJ Max, the precision increases and at TJ Max the temperature is considered to be 100% accurate. Because of this error at low temperatures, sub-ambient temperature/very high readings are sometimes given for idle temperatures. With the TJ Max method, your idle temperatures have no accuracy and therefore should be ignored. Under load, the temperatures become much more accurate and should be very carefully monitored.


The same can be said about AMD temp readings. The closer you get to the max temps the more accurate they are. When reading idle temps there is too much room for error. Most seasoned overclockers stay away from reporting their idle temps due to this.


----------



## Tator Tot

Around 20-30% of all my CPU's (around 30 in the past year) have had temp bugs not letting them go below (in the range of) 30-40*C on Idle, but load temps would always report correctly after a certain point.

And again, that's an Idle temp using a TRUE (CPU & TRUE lapped with a San Ace H1011 along with pressure mod) in a 19*C room.

A majority of those CPU's being dual cores (as I've gone through 8 quads total), there's no way the idles were that high.

It's a known fact, Idle are not important and they can be vastly inaccurate unless read from a lazer thermometer, but that's only the IHS temp,and not the die (core) temps, which Core temps are much more important than IHS temps.

EDIT: Fun fact, My Xigmatek S1283 & Cooler Master Hyper 212+ cannot passively cool a modern dual core @ stock (E8400 or x2 550BE)


----------



## raisethe3

That's strange. What temps were you getting with it?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Around 20-30% of all my CPU's (around 30 in the past year) have had temp bugs not letting them go below (in the range of) 30-40*C on Idle, but load temps would always report correctly after a certain point.

And again, that's an Idle temp using a TRUE (CPU & TRUE lapped with a San Ace H1011 along with pressure mod) in a 19*C room.

A majority of those CPU's being dual cores (as I've gone through 8 quads total), there's no way the idles were that high.

It's a known fact, Idle are not important and they can be vastly inaccurate unless read from a lazer thermometer, but that's only the IHS temp,and not the die (core) temps, which Core temps are much more important than IHS temps.

*EDIT: Fun fact, My Xigmatek S1283 & Cooler Master Hyper 212+ cannot passively cool a modern dual core @ stock (E8400 or x2 550BE)*


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *raisethe3*


That's strange. What temps were you getting with it?










Thermal shutdown pre-windows boot.

And it's not that odd, it's a hot chip. Not many coolers can run passively, especially tower coolers, as they don't have the surface area needed to do so.


----------



## Mygaffer

What about some of the new Zalman heatsinks, they seem to be getting some pretty good reviews and my buddy bought one, the "performance" model, and he is getting great results.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mygaffer*


What about some of the new Zalman heatsinks, they seem to be getting some pretty good reviews and my buddy bought one, the "performance" model, and he is getting great results.


Not many here on OCN agree with the results the sites are getting with the Zalman coolers. I go with the responses from most OCN members here and I will just point to the post where Zalman was mentioned again.

HERE it is earlier in this thread.

Too much hate here for it to be suggested here.


----------



## raisethe3

Now I fear that my Dark Knight (which is still new in the box) may not cool an overclock Phenom II X2 555BE (whenever I get it).









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Thermal shutdown pre-windows boot.

And it's not that odd, it's a hot chip. Not many coolers can run passively, especially tower coolers, as they don't have the surface area needed to do so.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *raisethe3*


Now I fear that my Dark Knight (which is still new in the box) may not cool an overclock Phenom II X2 555BE (whenever I get it).










It will cool it just fine. The issue Tator is having is that it cannot cool it PASSIVELY aka without a fan. The fan makes a huge difference in cooling potential.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *raisethe3*


Now I fear that my Dark Knight (which is still new in the box) may not cool an overclock Phenom II X2 555BE (whenever I get it).










Do note, (like Shadow said) I said _*PASSIVELY*_ which means without a fan. But with a fan it cools just fine.

I was simply testing the lowest way it could run and still hold a dual core cool. Which the lowest (120mm) fan I have is a 40CFM one that is dead silent, you can hardly even hear a woosh. ANd with the side panel on, no sound at all. Either way, with that fan it was fine at stock (2.8Ghz, 1.3v, 1800MhzHT/NB 1.1v NB)


----------



## ABeta

I am looking for a fan with lots of air but not ridiculous like delta 160 cfm but with 40 DBa. I just need a fan that will exhaust a lot of air to exhaust all the air coming from CPU and front intakes since the PC-p80 case only has one 120mm exhaust fan, the other exhaust is a 140mm at the top(which is taken care of already)

I wanna know if the slipstreams rated 110 cfm is true or not, otherwise I am looking into the yate loon D12SH's 80 CFM. Any other recommendations are welcome though


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ABeta* 
I am looking for a fan with lots of air but not ridiculous like delta 160 cfm but with 40 DBa. I just need a fan that will exhaust a lot of air to exhaust all the air coming from CPU and front intakes since the PC-p80 case only has one 120mm exhaust fan, the other exhaust is a 140mm at the top(which is taken care of already)

I wanna know if the slipstreams rated 110 cfm is true or not, otherwise I am looking into the yate loon D12SH's 80 CFM. Any other recommendations are welcome though

Slipstreams are completely false ratings.

For noise reasons, I'd recommend a S-FlexG


----------



## ehume

Let's put it this way: as much as I love the Slipstream 1900 - I have two - no way they push as much air as a San Ace 9G1212H101, of which I also have two.

The -H101 is rated at 99 cfm, BTW. Its SPL rating is 39 dBA. In free air that is what I got. On the Megahalems as a push fan I get 40 dBA. I'd say the 9G1212H101 is your fan. But you have to put a plug on it yourself.


----------



## whoisron

how would you rate noise blocker s3? do they fail as heatsink / cooler fans? are they only good as case fans?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *whoisron*


how would you rate noise blocker s3? do they fail as heatsink / cooler fans? are they only good as case fans?


2.3mmH20 on them is not..bad.. but for the price, Gentle Typhoon's, S-Flex, & Rosewill RFX fans all have higher static pressure, and can produce similar noise levels and such.


----------



## whoisron

also i was wondering can you still control fan speeds on a fan controller with 2 fans even if you use a y fan split cable?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *whoisron*


also i was wondering can you still control fan speeds on a fan controller with 2 fans even if you use a y fan split cable?


Correct. I'm controlling 2 Panaflo H1BXes from one knob on my Rheobus.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *whoisron*


also i was wondering can you still control fan speeds on a fan controller with 2 fans even if you use a y fan split cable?


Yes, if the Y cable has 3 wires.

Some come with only 2 wires, and that'd cause you problems. But yes, if it's a 3 pin Y cable or 4 Pin Y Cable, you will be able to.


----------



## whoisron

I read somewhere if you control 2 fans with 1 y split cable the rpm doesn't show on the fan controller is this true? someone told me i have to cut some wire can anyone clarify this? thanks


----------



## Mattb2e

Very nice guide, I would like to add one thing. I saw that you have Fan controllers/Rheobuses. The one I have is a 45/channel Lamptron FC2 Here is the link

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/84...lack_FC-2.html

Its a higher wattage than the Sunbeam you have linked.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *whoisron*


I read somewhere if you control 2 fans with 1 y split cable the rpm doesn't show on the fan controller is this true? someone told me i have to cut some wire can anyone clarify this? thanks











I've never personally done this, but you shouldn't have a problem if the fans are the same model.

AKA, 2 x Gentle Typhoon AP-15's. And now 1 GT-AP15 w/ 1 GT-AP14.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mattb2e*


Very nice guide, I would like to add one thing. I saw that you have Fan controllers/Rheobuses. The one I have is a 45/channel Lamptron FC2 Here is the link

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/84...lack_FC-2.html

Its a higher wattage than the Sunbeam you have linked.



Some people have reported issues with normal/lower watt loads on the controller. I have not had these issues though. But for this reason, it was removed from the guide.


----------



## Mattb2e

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Some people have reported issues with normal/lower watt loads on the controller. I have not had these issues though. But for this reason, it was removed from the guide.


What issues are you aware of with this Rheobus?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mattb2e*


What issues are you aware of with this Rheobus?


Odd fan noises like squeels, or sub par performance.

IE: little dial changes cause huge changes in fan speed.


----------



## Mattb2e

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Odd fan noises like squeels, or sub par performance.

IE: little dial changes cause huge changes in fan speed.


Ive read about some issues with squealing from the unit at anything other than max settings on all 6 knobs, this was an earlier revision pcb part that has been changed, a new revision has been released. Another thing was the unit used to only have 4 blue led's, it now has 6.

I currently have no issues with my unit, everything works like a charm and it powers my 4 yate loon D12SH's and my 2 240mm coolermaster fans no problem. I cant speak for wattage fans such as deltas, but for the lower wattage ones, its working like a charm.


----------



## Tator Tot

Like I said, I've never had any issues with the controller.


----------



## whoisron

will adding a 3rd fan to a noctua d14 provide minimal improvement in temps with regular noctua fans? Will you only see minimal temperature drop with a higher static pressure fan with higher RPM? also you won't see much improvement because the last fan will be a pull?


----------



## UltimateGamerXFX

Is this any good? Is it better than thermal paste??

http://www.links.hr/index.php?naziv=...kl=050.912.093


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *UltimateGamerXFX*


Is this any good? Is it better than thermal paste??

http://www.links.hr/index.php?naziv=...kl=050.912.093


From what I know, modern TIMs outperform that. Can't be too sure, though.


----------



## pike8

would Cooler Master Hyper TX3 be any good for overclocking an E8500?
how high do you think i could go with it?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoisron* 
will adding a 3rd fan to a noctua d14 provide minimal improvement in temps with regular noctua fans? Will you only see minimal temperature drop with a higher static pressure fan with higher RPM? also you won't see much improvement because the last fan will be a pull?

At most, I'd suspect a 2*C change over your current load temps.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UltimateGamerXFX* 
Is this any good? Is it better than thermal paste??

http://www.links.hr/index.php?naziv=...kl=050.912.093

That's a good "paste" per say. But it's a one time use for only a 1*C change over ICD or Shin Etsu.

You'd be better off buying a bulk tube of Arctic Cooling MX-2 for the Price/Performance/How much time you get.

Do Note:
Shin Etsu G751 = for Lapped CPUs
Shin Etsu x23 = for non-lapped CPU's.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pike8* 
would Cooler Master Hyper TX3 be any good for overclocking an E8500?
how high do you think i could go with it?

The TX3 is rather weak, and might have some problems. It'll definitely be better than stock, but if I had to take a rough guess on your limit, I would say around 3.7Ghz


----------



## pike8

thanks for your reply.
and what about those two:
Zalman cnps8700
Zalman 9700nt
?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pike8*


thanks for your reply.
and what about those two:
Zalman cnps8700
Zalman 9700nt
?


TX3 would be better than both.


----------



## blackguard

You do know that MX-3 TIM is out, right?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blackguard* 
You do know that MX-3 TIM is out, right?

Is that directed at me?

Yes I am aware, but MX-3's performance is not that high above MX-2, and you can buy MX-2 in bulk so you have plenty for awhile.


----------



## blackguard

MX-3 outperforms MX-2 and NT-H1 and that was all the reason I needed in order to buy it.

It's not like I change TIM that often to require buying it in bulk...
A tube of that is enough for my CPU and GPU for a year. Maybe more.


----------



## Shroomalistic

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


At most, I'd suspect a 2*C change over your current load temps.

That's a good "paste" per say. But it's a one time use for only a 1*C change over ICD or Shin Etsu.

You'd be better off buying a bulk tube of Arctic Cooling MX-2 for the Price/Performance/How much time you get.

Do Note:
Shin Etsu G751 = for Lapped CPUs
Shin Etsu x23 = for non-lapped CPU's.

The TX3 is rather weak, and might have some problems. It'll definitely be better than stock, but if I had to take a rough guess on your limit, I would say around 3.7Ghz


so would this be the g751 your talking about?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835150080

rmy megahalem and my 955 are both lapped so would that be better then mx-2, pk-1 or tx-2?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shroomalistic*


so would this be the g751 your talking about?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835150080

rmy megahalem and my 955 are both lapped so would that be better then mx-2, pk-1 or tx-2?


Yeah, and I'm pretty sure TX-2 & MX-2 are right along side each other.

My choice usually goes to MX-2 because I can buy the big tube.

a tube of Shin-Etsu is only like 3 CPU's and you're done. Possibly 4 if you're good with it. A little hard to apply as well. Best temps out of all of them though.


----------



## godofdeath

would it be fine to use 5x GT, where 3x are at 1850 on the case and 2x are 1450 on my heatsink (balder)

Case also currently has 3x nzxt 140mm


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


would it be fine to use 5x GT, where 3x are at 1850 on the case and 2x are 1450 on my heatsink (balder)

Case also currently has 3x nzxt 140mm


Yes, you just want the ones on your heatsink to match. Case ones do not matter except for the case itself.


----------



## whoisron

If you undervolt a San Ace 9G1212H101 to run as the same RPM as a GT15 would the noise produced by the San Ace be around the same as a gentle typhoon? and would there be a big difference in how much air is being pushed as well as with static pressure?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoisron* 
If you undervolt a San Ace 9G1212H101 to run as the same RPM as a GT15 would the noise produced by the San Ace be around the same as a gentle typhoon? and would there be a big difference in how much air is being pushed as well as with static pressure?

You cannot compare or match the two fans. They have different blade designs, impellers, and sizes.

Even if you got a San Ace to 1850RPM and it matched up to the GT, it would not produce the same static pressure or CFM.


----------



## whoisron

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


You cannot compare or match the two fans. They have different blade designs, impellers, and sizes.

Even if you got a San Ace to 1850RPM and it matched up to the GT, it would not produce the same static pressure or CFM.










I guess since i am concerned with noise 120mm fans would be a better choice for me? But people have said that san ace fans undervolt well and they can be made whispher quiet, and overall 38mm fans would produce better airflow. Overall I just wanted to have some pretty good performance fans as an option incase I feel like benchmarking or doing stress tests. But for normal everyday use im looking for fans that be run quiet around 19 or 20 db.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *whoisron*









I guess since i am concerned with noise 120mm fans would be a better choice for me? But people have said that san ace fans undervolt well and they can be made whispher quiet, and overall 38mm fans would produce better airflow. Overall I just wanted to have some pretty good performance fans as an option incase I feel like benchmarking or doing stress tests. But for normal everyday use im looking for fans that be run quiet around 19 or 20 db.


San Ace's do undervolt well. But not in the 20dB area. More like 25dB

And San Ace H101/H1011's are 120mm fans. The "38mm" they are referring too is the thickness of the fan.

Most fans are 25mm thick. San Ace fans are nicer for heatsinks because they are 38mm thick and produce more static pressure.

Though, if you're looking for a fan for your H50, look at the Delta AFB1212SH-PWM. It's got higher static pressure, and being PWM it does not "undervolt" per-say, but instead responds better to lower RPM environments. You can get those down to 25dB easily on a Motherboard's PWM controller.


----------



## whoisron

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


San Ace's do undervolt well. But not in the 20dB area. More like 25dB

And San Ace H101/H1011's are 120mm fans. The "38mm" they are referring too is the thickness of the fan.

Most fans are 25mm thick. San Ace fans are nicer for heatsinks because they are 38mm thick and produce more static pressure.

Though, if you're looking for a fan for your H50, look at the Delta AFB1212SH-PWM. It's got higher static pressure, and being PWM it does not "undervolt" per-say, but instead responds better to lower RPM environments. You can get those down to 25dB easily on a Motherboard's PWM controller.


haha yah whoops. i meant 25mm thickness fans. Hmm yeah I actually have two computers one has a noctua d14 and im debating on if i should send it back and get a cogage arrow, but since I have been reading that noctua d14 perform better at lower rpm fans, it's probably going to be quieter for my tastes. I have a corsair h50 with two GT14's but I have a fan controller now so im looking for fans with higher rpm just incase but mostly i want to be using my computer in the 20db range or at least have the option to turn the fans down to 20db when going to sleep.


----------



## godofdeath

are two corners of the screw holes for the GT closed and the other 2 open?
that is what i see fro the pictures


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *whoisron*


haha yah whoops. i meant 25mm thickness fans. Hmm yeah I actually have two computers one has a noctua d14 and im debating on if i should send it back and get a cogage arrow, but since I have been reading that noctua d14 perform better at lower rpm fans, it's probably going to be quieter for my tastes. I have a corsair h50 with two GT14's but I have a fan controller now so im looking for fans with higher rpm just incase but mostly i want to be using my computer in the 20db range or at least have the option to turn the fans down to 20db when going to sleep.


I would stick to the one fan then like the Delta I listed. On PWM header it can be quiet as you can control it's RPMs via BIOS and just set the temp ranges you want on most boards.

IE: 30-40*C = 60% Speed
50-60*C = 80% Speed
60+ = 100% Speed.

Check your BIOS to be sure you can do that, but the option is available on most boards now adays.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


are two corners of the screw holes for the GT closed and the other 2 open?
that is what i see fro the pictures


GT's are all open frames.


----------



## godofdeath

should i go open box for fans then?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
should i go open box for fans then?

Open box as an open item?

If so, shouldn't really matter. As those are Returns usually.

Or do you mean should you go for Open frame fans always?
If so, Open frames are my prefered choice as they're easier to work with for any Ghetto mods to a case, rubber screws, or Heatsinks.


----------



## ehume

My San Ace 9G1212H101 does a quiet growl at 5v, running 22.5 dBA. For reference, it runs 39 dBA in open air (right on spec) and 40 dBA on the Megahalems. Speed is 2500 rpm.

So in open air I would expect the same fan to run about 21.5-22 dBA at 5v.


----------



## whoisron

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ehume*


My San Ace 9G1212H101 does a quiet growl at 5v, running 22.5 dBA. For reference, it runs 39 dBA in open air (right on spec) and 40 dBA on the Megahalems. Speed is 2500 rpm.

So in open air I would expect the same fan to run about 21.5-22 dBA at 5v.


thanks for the info.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Open box as an open item?

If so, shouldn't really matter. As those are Returns usually.

Or do you mean should you go for Open frame fans always?
If so, Open frames are my prefered choice as they're easier to work with for any Ghetto mods to a case, rubber screws, or Heatsinks.

ah sorry yea
open box

got 3x 1850 GT off newegg open box, they ran out of the 1450s so quickly


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
ah sorry yea
open box

got 3x 1850 GT off newegg open box, they ran out of the 1450s so quickly

Yeah, those are fine. Like I said, someone adds more to the cart than they intended and return them.

Besides, there's not alot you can do to a fan to break it besides, break the fan blades.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Yeah, those are fine. Like I said, someone adds more to the cart than they intended and return them.

Besides, there's not alot you can do to a fan to break it besides, break the fan blades.

lol yea i guess, my nzxt from newegg broke the other day when i was taking it out, good thing they didnt make me send it back


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
lol yea i guess, my nzxt from newegg broke the other day when i was taking it out, good thing they didnt make me send it back

Ouch man, sorry to hear about the NZXT.

Neither of mine have broken. It's possibly you got a bad unit. IE: the plastic had a deformation in it, like a bubble or something.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Ouch man, sorry to hear about the NZXT.

Neither of mine have broken. It's possibly you got a bad unit. IE: the plastic had a deformation in it, like a bubble or something.


the blades feel like a thick egg shell lol


----------



## Shroomalistic

anychance we can get a list of prefered 140mm added to the guide? Not sure if its been asked already. I couldnt find any solid information for 140mm so I went ahead and bought 2 x 140mm noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentPro PK-3 for my nzxt gamma thats coming monday. Out of all the 140mm ive seen they have the best specs. hopefully its a good choice.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shroomalistic*


anychance we can get a list of prefered 140mm added to the guide? Not sure if its been asked already. I couldnt find any solid information for 140mm so I went ahead and bought 2 x 140mm noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentPro PK-3 for my nzxt gamma thats coming monday. Out of all the 140mm ive seen they have the best specs. hopefully its a good choice.


I can already list some (Shadowclock feel free to take these)

Yate Loon Medium Speed 140mm
NZXT FN-140-BR
Noiseblocker XKR-14
Noiseblocker PK-14
Koolance FAN-14025HBK 
Noctua P14-FLX**

The stay away from fans:
Thermalright X-Silence 140's
- do not produce rated CFM
Scythe Kaze Maru 140's *
- do not produce rated CFM, have a loud bearing. 
Xigmatek Crystal Series XLF-X145x's 
- Have a close to inaudiable squeel on some fan controllers. Voltage or PWM based. Haven't rooted the issue yet

** Noctua's normally have low Static Pressure, but most 140mm fans are lacking in static pressure to begin with, and the Noctua's are on the same lines as the rest of the pack, but more towards the bottom of the spectrum. 
*(I do knot know about Kaze Maru 2's)


----------



## ehume

You can add the Kaze Maru 2 - absolutely phenomenal fan.


----------



## whoisron

can someone explain how pwm fan work?

im thinking about getting this fan.

I know that PWM has something to do with that it can be controlled by the motherboard, if I plug this into the MB will it automatically set the defaults in by itself or do I have to manually set the parameters? and where would i set in the paramets or settings if i do need it to be controlled, in bios or in a program like speedfan? thanks

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/84...l=c365s936b160


----------



## ehume

Two kinds of PWM (pulse width modulation), as I sadly learned:

The kind you normally see is a 5-volt line that signals along a continuum from 0% to 100%. The fan manufacturer anchors the lowest rpm (which may be at zero, or some other number, like 10%) and the highest rpm. I have a set of PWM fan, for example, that will go far lower on voltage control than on PWM.

But the key thing about PWM is that when they are under PWM they receive 12 volts. That assures that they always exhibit the same clicking (switching noise) at all speeds (hopefully none). Under voltage control a PWM fan may exhibit clicking (I have a PWM fan that does this).

The other kind of PWM is an interruption of the main power to the fan. I once got a 12v PWM controller that does this - no 5v signal line. Of course, it wasn't designed for computers, but it was $15 wasted - except for the education. I guess it was $15 tuition . . .

MB's do control PWM fans, but you usually must select the option in your BIOS.


----------



## whoisron

what can i do if my motherboard only has 4 slots to put in PWM fans and i have more than 4 PWM fans?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *whoisron*


what can i do if my motherboard only has 4 slots to put in PWM fans and i have more than 4 PWM fans?


Most PWM fans can be hooked up to 3pin headers no problem. In that case, they run on Voltage instead of a Pulse.


----------



## whoisron

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Most PWM fans can be hooked up to 3pin headers no problem. In that case, they run on Voltage instead of a Pulse.


hmm meaning but like what if i want to use more PWM fans for the sole purpose of it being able to be controlled and i don't want it to run at full rpm


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *whoisron*


hmm meaning but like what if i want to use more PWM fans for the sole purpose of it being able to be controlled and i don't want it to run at full rpm


You can always use Software like Speed fan to control your fan headers.


----------



## ehume

This wire harness controls up to 3 PWM fans, using a single PWM header for controlling rpm and Molex for power. I have three 0.9-Amp PWM fans. No way I'll put more than one of them on a MB header - they max out at 1 Amp each. The wire harness avoids that problem.


----------



## whoisron

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ehume*


This wire harness controls up to 3 PWM fans, using a single PWM header for controlling rpm and Molex for power. I have three 0.9-Amp PWM fans. No way I'll put more than one of them on a MB header - they max out at 1 Amp each. The wire harness avoids that problem.


oh very nice ehume. how well does this thing work i won't have any problems with this? I plan to set / use this for when i hook up three noiseblocker pwm fans for my noctua d14 on a triple P/P setup.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoisron* 
oh very nice ehume. how well does this thing work i won't have any problems with this? I plan to set / use this for when i hook up three noiseblocker pwm fans for my noctua d14 on a triple P/P setup.

just an fyi theres a 4 dollar version from rosewill at newegg, i bought like 3 of those lol


----------



## ehume

@whoisron: I bought my Akasa harness here, but they don't explain it the way they do at Frozen CPU.

I bought my harness and I bought those three 0.9-amp PWM fans to try them out on the Noctua NH-D14. I have tested the harness with those three fans. It all works.

Found the Roeswill. Identical to the Akasa harness. I'd say buy one when you buy something else, to keep the shipping cost down.


----------



## Shadowclock

Just want to let you guys know that I had a busy weekend but will edit this post with updates as I catch up to all your conversations here. Tator and ehume thanks as always for keeping up and helping those that needed it.


----------



## oni5115

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I can already list some (Shadowclock feel free to take these)

Yate Loon Medium Speed 140mm
NZXT FN-140-BR
Noiseblocker XKR-14
Noiseblocker PK-14
Koolance FAN-14025HBK 
Noctua P14-FLX**

The stay away from fans:
Thermalright X-Silence 140's
- do not produce rated CFM
Scythe Kaze Maru 140's *
- do not produce rated CFM, have a loud bearing. 
Xigmatek Crystal Series XLF-X145x's 
- Have a close to inaudiable squeel on some fan controllers. Voltage or PWM based. Haven't rooted the issue yet

** Noctua's normally have low Static Pressure, but most 140mm fans are lacking in static pressure to begin with, and the Noctua's are on the same lines as the rest of the pack, but more towards the bottom of the spectrum. 
*(I do knot know about Kaze Maru 2's)


I very much appreciate that list. I have a Dragonlord K62 and that pretty much means 1-2 front 140mm fan slots, depending on drive bay usage, and 2 top 140mm fan slots, and then a 120mm exhaust. I was trying to figure out what fans to use for exhaust and the recommendations were helpful.

Originally I was going to go all Xigmatek XLF-F1253 and XLF-F1453 fans, however the newegg reviews seem to show that the 140mm's "Long-life bearing" are fail at horizontal alignments. I still will probably use them on my front, for the looks, but will l likely go for the Koolance (FAN-14025HBK) for my top fans since they are the only Ball Bearing 140mm fans I have seen. Though at least the NZXT FN-140RB are rifle bearings. All the rest seem to be sleeve.

I am curious about how many of the 120mm I will need. I was planning on 2 for the Megatron, and maybe a third for the exhaust - but with the push/pull config coming so close to the exhaust fan is it even needed anymore? Would it just cause excess turbulence?

I really do love this guide and there is only a couple of things I can recommend to improve it. Firstly, there is a wonderful section explaining the different bearing types - and yet the recommended fans don't list what type of bearings they have.







Secondly, it would be nice for them to get marked as 120mm - doubly so if you add 140mm fans into the mix. I would love to see the 140mm fans added too.

That said it is a great guide, very informative and has helped me a lot in choosing fans. Granted, I went for looks more than performance, at least I know what I can get if I need more power.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *oni5115*


I am curious about how many of the 120mm I will need. I was planning on 2 for the Megatron, and maybe a third for the exhaust - but with the push/pull config coming so close to the exhaust fan is it even needed anymore? Would it just cause excess turbulence?


Well, for two fans for your Mega, I would suggest either:
2 Gentle Typhoon AP-14's
or
2 S-Flex e's

You'll get a nice quiet performance with those fans but they'll be perfect for the Megahalems.

You could also get AP-15's or S-Flex G's which are just faster versions of those fans.

As for your back fan question, it won't really do much in a negative aspect, but it'll help suck the hot air out.


----------



## Blackhawk4

I would also consider the Cooler Master 120mm Blade master as a budget/midrange price fan. For the price it does a great job at cooling, has decent/good static pressure for a 120x25mm fan and is not that loud even at full speed. I'm using 2 on my Megahalem and they've been great


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blackhawk4*


I would also consider the Cooler Master 120mm Blade master as a budget/midrange price fan. For the price it does a great job at cooling, has decent/good static pressure for a 120x25mm fan and is not that loud even at full speed. I'm using 2 on my Megahalem and they've been great


These?

I've got a pair that came with my H50.

They're not bad. The motor noise can be a tad annoying on full throttle, but spec wise, they do push a respectable 3.9mmH20

The price is a little on the high side. And being PWM can be limiting to some folks. Also, being a LLS (Long-Life Sleeve) can be a negative aspect as well.

SPeaking of Cooler Master, I'm curious about there new cooler the Vortex Plus.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blackhawk4* 
I would also consider the Cooler Master 120mm Blade master as a budget/midrange price fan. For the price it does a great job at cooling, has decent/good static pressure for a 120x25mm fan and is not that loud even at full speed. I'm using 2 on my Megahalem and they've been great

These. For eight bucks each, get at least two to strap on your Megahalems.

Then remove your exhaust fan and cut out the grill. That will allow the air to exit freely. Or if you're running a negative pressure setup, put the other Blademaster on the case exhaust port . . . after cutting out that grill. Or you can have two Blademasters on the Mega and mount the case exhaust on the ouside of the case (remove that grill).

You can have your exit fan hooked up to your MB with a PWM harness. You can hook two up with a PWM Y cable. $3 and free shipping. Who can beat that? Just remember to cut one of the yellow wires so the MB doesn't see two RPM signals. I have mine reporting to another MB fan header.

For three PWM fans (two on your Megatron and one for case exhaust, for example), use one of these. Buy it here.

And if you set your MB to Auto fan speed control, you only hear those fans when the computer is working hard.


----------



## Blackhawk4

I've already got it set up...I also have a fan control. My airflow is fine







I was offering advice to oni5115


----------



## ehume

I was expanding on your answer, which was a good one IMO.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

is the info here still up to date?
I'm thinking about getting venomous x, fc-5 fan controller, and a view yateloons

so are these still some of the best? or is there some better stuff out there that arent included in this thread?

Edit: D12SH-12 is what I should be getting right? Cause I see some ppl going for D12SL-12 (or something like that)


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever** 
is the info here still up to date?
I'm thinking about getting venomous x, fc-5 fan controller, and a view yateloons

so are these still some of the best? or is there some better stuff out there that arent included in this thread?

VenX isn't the best, and the mount has problems.

The Cogage Arrow & Noctua D14 are both better.

Noctua is THE best though.

Yate Loons are still good fans, but if you get the D14, don't buy new fans. The stock Noctua fans do not need to be replaced because of the loose fin spacing.

And the FC-5 is a good fan controller, but only if you have alot or high wattage fans. Otherwise it can cause some problems.

Also remember, get your Yate Loon's from Petra's Tech Shop


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

- D14, got it
- Yateloons are gonna be used as 2 side fans, and 2 fans for push/pull on HSF .. the D14 will let me do so right? .. oh and which model D12SH-12 or D12SL-12
- FC-5, well I have 2 side fans, 1 fan in front for intake, 1 top fan, and one fan in the back .. besides it looks good lol .. I should have any problems should I?
- Petra tech, I was actually going to buy from frozencpu.com, any reason why I shouldnt?

Edit: also, isnt the D14 heavy? it wont break my mobo or anything will it? :s
Edit2: can you also explain what you mean by loose fin spacing?


----------



## ehume

I don't see any differences between my D12SH-12's. FWIW, I think Jab-Tech may have the cheapest prices. The preference for Petra's Tech Shop dates from 2007. JAB insisted he was also getting real Yate Loons. Based on my personal results, I have no reason to doubt that. I believe things have changed since 2007. YMMV.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever** 
- D14, got it
- Yateloons are gonna be used as 2 side fans, and 2 fans for push/pull on HSF .. the D14 will let me do so right? .. oh and which model D12SH-12 or D12SL-12
- FC-5, well I have 2 side fans, 1 fan in front for intake, 1 top fan, and one fan in the back .. besides it looks good lol .. I should have any problems should I?
- Petra tech, I was actually going to buy from frozencpu.com, any reason why I shouldnt?

Edit: also, isnt the D14 heavy? it wont break my mobo or anything will it? :s
Edit2: can you also explain what you mean by loose fin spacing?

The D14 will let you do that with the Yates.

Personally, I say D12SH-12's as they're the High speeds and you're getting a fan controller.

FC-5 has had some users reporting a few issues with it, but they said the same about the FC-2 and I've not had this problem yet.

Petra's Tech Shop is the only place to get the Yate Loons that are made specifically by Yate loon, and the best quality. FrozenCPU, Jab-Tech (I just got some JT's 2 months ago) and Performance PC's Yate Loons are made by Middle men and do not scale as well with undervolting.

D14 won't break your boards.

And Loose Fin spacing means the spacing between fins on the D14 is wider than normal heatsinks.

For example:
Vendetta 2
S1283
Hyper212+

All of these towers have a fin spacing of 13 Fins Per Inch

D14 & U12P have a fin spacing of 10 fins per inch.

The less fins per inch you have, or the looser your fin spacing is, the less benefit your heatsink gets from high performance fans.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

Thanks Tator Tot, that clarifies everything


----------



## Mattb2e

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


The D14 will let you do that with the Yates.

Personally, I say D12SH-12's as they're the High speeds and you're getting a fan controller.

FC-5 has had some users reporting a few issues with it, but they said the same about the FC-2 and I've not had this problem yet.

Petra's Tech Shop is the only place to get the Yate Loons that are made specifically by Yate loon, and the best quality. FrozenCPU, Jab-Tech (I just got some JT's 2 months ago) and Performance PC's Yate Loons are made by Middle men and do not scale as well with undervolting.

D14 won't break your boards.

And Loose Fin spacing means the spacing between fins on the D14 is wider than normal heatsinks.

For example:
Vendetta 2
S1283
Hyper212+

All of these towers have a fin spacing of 13 Fins Per Inch

D14 & U12P have a fin spacing of 10 fins per inch.

The less fins per inch you have, or the looser your fin spacing is, the less benefit your heatsink gets from high performance fans.


Thanks for that valuable information, I had no idea what the number of fins per inch on a HDT cooler was, or a D14, thats some valuable info. 
I have read that sometimes when using a push pull configuration on such a cooler with the addition of a shroud, some cooling performance can be gained, but the gains are minimal. Could you shed some light on this?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mattb2e* 
Thanks for that valuable information, I had no idea what the number of fins per inch on a HDT cooler was, or a D14, thats some valuable info.
I have read that sometimes when using a push pull configuration on such a cooler with the addition of a shroud, some cooling performance can be gained, but the gains are minimal. Could you shed some light on this?

Well, most reports of "gains" are temp drops by 1-2*C which is within a margin of error in reporting and room temperature shifts.

IE: Generally speaking, during the day your house is warmer than it is at night.
So obviously the temps will shift a little bit.

Though, it is possible to get some increases, most of the times the gains are minimal at best.

But do keep in mind, you can net bigger temp drops from a Push/Pull setup when there's an extreme heat load on the cooler. Suck as slapping a S1283 or Hyper212+ on a i7. Obviously those coolers would not be the first choice, so the added airflow helps to keep up with the overloaded heatpipes

Short and Simple:
It can help, but in most applicable cases, unless you're running an i7 and your current setup is drastically over powered, I would doubt you'll see a huge increase in temp differences.


----------



## Mattb2e

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Well, most reports of "gains" are temp drops by 1-2*C which is within a margin of error in reporting and room temperature shifts.

IE: Generally speaking, during the day your house is warmer than it is at night. 
So obviously the temps will shift a little bit.

Though, it is possible to get some increases, most of the times the gains are minimal at best.

But do keep in mind, you can net bigger temp drops from a Push/Pull setup when there's an extreme heat load on the cooler. Suck as slapping a S1283 or Hyper212+ on a i7. Obviously those coolers would not be the first choice, so the added airflow helps to keep up with the overloaded heatpipes

Short and Simple:
It can help, but in most applicable cases, unless you're running an i7 and your current setup is drastically over powered, I would doubt you'll see a huge increase in temp differences.


Thats what I was gathering from what I read, but I didnt find too much on fan shrouds and didnt know how much that would impact the efficiency of the cooler.

Is it the fact that you can only go so far with air before saturation that prevents these coolers from performing any better than say the Megatron, or is it purely design oriented? I know its impossible to go below ambient on air, but is it possible to achieve ambient temps with an ultra-efficient solution?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mattb2e*


Thats what I was gathering from what I read, but I didnt find too much on fan shrouds and didnt know how much that would impact the efficiency of the cooler.

Is it the fact that you can only go so far with air before saturation that prevents these coolers from performing any better than say the Megatron, or is it purely design oriented? I know its impossible to go below ambient on air, but is it possible to achieve ambient temps with an ultra-efficient solution?


With air cooling, the best you could do is what your ambient temps are.

THough, there is nothing that can perform like that right now.

And yeah, at a certain point, you just don't get any more performance.


----------



## ehume

I did some tests with shrouds on a Megahalems. Temps seemed to go up with 25mm fans, stayed the same with 38mm fans. Never saw any improvements. On radiators, shrouds are very helpful.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ehume*


I did some tests with shrouds on a Megahalems. Temps seemed to go up with 25mm fans, stayed the same with 38mm fans. Never saw any improvements. On radiators, shrouds are very helpful.


Well, some Radiators.

Swiftech Quiet Power series not so much.

Though, anything with a high FPI/fin density is going to benefit from Shrouds and higher static pressure.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

Tator Tot, are there any fan filters you would recommend? 120mm for yateloons..


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever** 
Tator Tot, are there any fan filters you would recommend? 120mm for yateloons..

I use these 99% of the time.

Silverstone makes some Alu Filters that look nice. The Grills cause noise though.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

ah, I cant order anything from newegg.. they dont accept International credit cards..
are the ones in petra's shop any good? (since i'm ordering fans from there anyways)

thanks again


----------



## ehume

There is also this.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

Thanks ehume, I'll take that into consideration


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ehume* 
There is also this.


Quote:


Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever** 
Thanks ehume, I'll take that into consideration









Rosewill's and those are the same. Quiet a few companies use that same design.

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever** 
ah, I cant order anything from newegg.. they dont accept International credit cards..
are the ones in petra's shop any good? (since i'm ordering fans from there anyways)

thanks again









http://www.petrastechshop.com/12plfanfibl.html

Same design again. Cheaper too.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

Thank you Tator Tot .. That will complete the list of stuff I want to order








Edit: Damn, only 1 filter available.. I'll wait for them to restock i guess..


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever** 
Thank you Tator Tot .. That will complete the list of stuff I want to order








Edit: Damn, only 1 filter available.. I'll wait for them to restock i guess..

Ouch man, that sucks. But patience is a virtue


----------



## jelecevic

Hey what is the best cooler for i7 860 to overclock on air with?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jelecevic* 
Hey what is the best cooler for i7 860 to overclock on air with?

Noctua D14
Armageddon
Megahalems
VenemousX


----------



## Tator Tot

*@ShadowClock*

I finally got some freetime, I'd suggest adding Cooler Master Blade Master fans to the OP for suggested fans.
These perform better than the Yate Loon High Speeds I have from *Petra's.
And they stick to their specs pretty well.

Fan Specs:
76.8CFM
3.9mmH20
32dBA
Taken from CM

and Measured by me:
75CFM
4mmH20
33.5dBA

Note: *Yate's from Petra's are still the best performing from my groups which come from Jab-Tech, Performance PC's, & Frozen CPU as well.

My Testing Equipment:
Dwyer 2300-20CM Pressure Gauge (measure in mmH20)
Tenma Digital Sound Meter & My ears
General Tools DCFM8906 Air Flow Meter


----------



## ehume

I'm using the Tenma myself. I like it a lot.

I also like my Blade Masters a lot - got a pair of them. But they cool my Megahalems down to 51.5c (i7 860 at 4GHz) and a pair of YL D12sh-12's cool it down to 50.5c - a repeatable score. It's close, though. And they're only 1 dB apart - 36.5 vs 37.5 dBA (equivalent to 1m).

BTW - the link to the Dwyer seems broken.


----------



## Tator Tot

Apparently I can't direct link that part. Only to the series.

Either way, you can find it.

Also, that's because of the Megahalems doesn't have a high FPI rating. It's only 14 or 15 FPI IIRC.

If it had higher fin density it'd need the added static pressure of the Blade Masters. But it doesn't.


----------



## GeorgieFruit

Well, a while back, I noticed my rig was running a little hot (phenom II x4 idling almost 40Â°C), so I thought it time to replace the stock sink. I also noticed that my side fan, which is shielded only by a wide grate, threw a massive amount of dust right into the guts of my video card, prompting me to switch the fan direction after blasting dust bunny colonies out of my card. Anywho, my current situation is thus (MSpaint owns):


case for reference: (antec ATX 300)


at first, I was a little concerned about having three fans (rear, top, & side) all blowing out, but a little negative pressure is fine with me. Plus, the 120mm scythe center intake fan could crush them all, though I really dislike having it above 42% what with all the noise. Also of note, all of the antec stock fans are 3 speed... with tiny little manual toggles for each individual effin' fan. Of course, I could easily solder up an external control for the whole deal, but I'm kind of lazy. Still, annoying, and completely inaccessible with the case closed. As of now, the fans I control via mobo are the Scythe and the stock xiggy fan, which I usually keep at 42 and 100 percent, respectively. Which brings me to my other gripe: the xiggy fan, when hanging down and blowing up, must be making some kind of contact around the bearing joint, because it won't even run until I crank it to ~65% or else give it a jump-start with my finger. I also fear that the sink is making a crappy connection with the processor, as I've re-seated it twice already, but there is barely any pressure in the flimsy stock binding, and although my cpu is around 40Â°C under load, the entire xiggy rig is cool to the touch. I am planning to buy a custom am3 mount from nafljhy, but even then, would I want my sink facing a different direction?

Anyway, just curious to your thoughts. Thought maybe I could switch fans around and throw some sort of filter over the side fan if I felt like turning it back to intake.

Thanks y'all


----------



## Tator Tot

Most fans will not go down to 6v, and the stock Xig's low level voltage is on average 7v. So that 65% speed is normal.

In an Antec 300 is doesn't really matter that much. I've done it before, I ran stock and with the custom bracket, fine either way. I just wanted more RAM slots readily available.

Also, Antec 300's designed to be negative pressure, just keep it like that.


----------



## Shadowclock

Ehume's fan review link added to the beginning of the fan section. If you haven't checked it out go see all the hard work he put into it.

Still pending more updates to include:
140mm fans
Several other "Tator" updates


----------



## Iozeg

Hello everyone, I need advice on my current fan setup. Here it is:
(click to enlarge)



So here is how it goes:
the front 140mm is the default thermaltake which came with the case, can't say much about it. The top is a Cooler Master Megaflow Red 200mm fan. The 2 exausts on the left, the bottom, the right one on the chassis and one behind the motherboard are Cooler Master R4-L2R-20CR-GP 120mm fans. Then there is the Zalman CNPS10X Extreme cooler face down, its 120mm fan blowing up. And on the second picture you can see that on the left door I have another 2 fans - the bottom is a 140 Slip Stream (SM1425SL12H) and a noname 120mm ~2200 RPM fan.

The Video card is an ASUS reference (so it should pull cold air from the front and exaust it out the back)

In terms of air pressure is my system running good or something can be improved? Please do give advice if you can. Thanks!


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Iozeg* 
Hello everyone, I need advice on my current fan setup. Here it is:
(click to enlarge)
In terms of air pressure is my system running good or something can be improved? Please do give advice if you can. Thanks!

Actually Iozeg, your setup looks very good. I wouldn't really change much at all.









Only thing that would be wrong with the diagram is that the PSU is actually sucking in air and blowing out the back.

As for the pressure system your computer has it really depends on whether you have air filters and what type of mesh guard is on your case itself. As stated in my guide the best way to check whether you have positive or negative pressure is to use a toilet paper or any paper test on an open gap in your case. I like a slightly positive pressure case but again you can check my guide's section on pressure and decide for yourself what you find more advantageous for you.


----------



## Iozeg

Thanks! Yeah got messed up with the psu







Just checked it and it seems like it's positive







the tp is being blown away everywhere except just near the intake fans.

By the way you can see how it is arranged here:
http://www.overclock.net/air-cooling...ml#post9281425


----------



## ROM3000

I have a Noctua NH-U12P with the two stock Noctua fans. I have read that due to the large fin spacing, going to a higher pressure fan will not improve my temperature much. I just wanted to get your opinion on if I should bother with different fans. Thanks.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ROM3000* 
I have a Noctua NH-U12P with the two stock Noctua fans. I have read that due to the large fin spacing, going to a higher pressure fan will not improve my temperature much. I just wanted to get your opinion on if I should bother with different fans. Thanks.

Yeah that's true, I would stick with what you have right now as better fans won't change much.

1-2*C at most.


----------



## ROM3000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Yeah that's true, I would stick with what you have right now as better fans won't change much.

1-2*C at most.

Thanks for the reply. At least these fans are nice and quiet.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ROM3000* 
Thanks for the reply. At least these fans are nice and quiet.










Well Noctua might not always make the most pricefriendly, or best cooling solutions. But they can do quiet.









Now they just need to drop their current fan designs and call up Nidec Servo and get some Gentle Typhoons so they have fans worth the cash.


----------



## Tator Tot

*@ShadowClock*

This is rather old, but very relevant data.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=209801

I completely forgot about it till I dug it up in my bookmarks today.


----------



## Andr3az

I have stock fan on my S1283 at the moment.
But I also have 2 no-name cheapo 120mm fans here, that I could try to use as push-pull. Would one stock fan be better than 2 cheapo ones in push-pull?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Andr3az*


I have stock fan on my S1283 at the moment. 
But I also have 2 no-name cheapo 120mm fans here, that I could try to use as push-pull. Would one stock fan be better than 2 cheapo ones in push-pull?


The stock fan isn't bad, I'd probably stick with it for now.

Post pictures of those "cheapo" fans you have. They might be decent ones.


----------



## Shadowclock

Updated Dust Filter section with Tator's suggestion: Tests done on mesh and dust filters to see how they effect a fans CFM.


----------



## Andr3az

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
The stock fan isn't bad, I'd probably stick with it for now.

Post pictures of those "cheapo" fans you have. They might be decent ones.











Found this pic from the internet. Don't have my camera at the moment.

The big writing is: NJ12025SE made by Ning Jie electronic co. ltd.
Made in china.
DC 12V 0.12A.

Also it seems like these fans are used in codegen PSU-s lol.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Andr3az* 









Found this pic from the internet. Don't have my camera at the moment.

The big writing is: NJ12025SE made by Ning Jie electronic co. ltd.
Made in china.
DC 12V 0.12A.

Also it seems like these fans are used in codegen PSU-s lol.

Well I can tell you right off the bat from blade designs those fans are not going to be better, but they will cause more noise.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Also, that's because of the Megahalems doesn't have a high FPI rating. It's only 14 or 15 FPI IIRC.

If it had higher fin density it'd need the added static pressure of the Blade Masters. But it doesn't.

I was just about to order some D12SH-12's, but then I read your post. Would I be better off with Blade Masters on my 212+? (it has denser fins than the Megahelms, doesn't it?)


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I was just about to order some D12SH-12's, but then I read your post. Would I be better off with Blade Masters on my 212+? (it has denser fins than the Megahelms, doesn't it?)

No, the H212+ is slightly less at 13FPI.

But BladeMasters from tests done by myself & Ehume put the Yate High's & BladeMasters back to back.

I got about 1*C difference in favor of the BM's while he got 1*C in favor of the Yate's.

So it's pretty much up to margin of error at that point.

Personally, if you need the cooling of the Mega? Get it. But I'd buy another BladeMaster to go with it. You'd spend more on two Yate High's.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
No, the H212+ is slightly less at 13FPI.

But BladeMasters from tests done by myself & Ehume put the Yate High's & BladeMasters back to back.

I got about 1*C difference in favor of the BM's while he got 1*C in favor of the Yate's.

So it's pretty much up to margin of error at that point.

Personally, if you need the cooling of the Mega? Get it. But I'd buy another BladeMaster to go with it. You'd spend more on two Yate High's.

Oh, thanks!

Actually, the Yates are about the same price as an extra blade master for me. If I buy another blade master, it's $10+shipping. Whereas, I'm already ordering a GTAP15 from Petra, so it'd be $12 for the two yates.

It really stinks being an indecisive person.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Oh, thanks!

Actually, the Yates are about the same price as an extra blade master for me. If I buy another blade master, it's $10+shipping. Whereas, I'm already ordering a GTAP15 from Petra, so it'd be $12 for the two yates.

It really stinks being an indecisive person.









Well if you're already getting a GT-AP15 & Mega from PTS, just get the yates there as well. It'll save you overall.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Well if you're already getting a GT-AP15 & Mega from PTS, just get the yates there as well. It'll save you overall.

Oh, you got me wrong here. I'm planning to upgrade to a Mega/Venom in the near future, but not just yet. For now, these fans are just to stick on my 212+ until I have the money for a heatsink upgrade. (I'll probably reuse the fans, though.)


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Oh, you got me wrong here. I'm planning to upgrade to a Mega/Venom in the near future, but not just yet. For now, these fans are just to stick on my 212+ until I have the money for a heatsink upgrade. (I'll probably reuse the fans, though.)

Well obviously you need another BladeMaster, and two Yates, along with the Gentle Typhoon AP-15.

That way you have plenty of fans for eVERYTHING!


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Well obviously you need another BladeMaster, and two Yates, along with the Gentle Typhoon AP-15.

That way you have plenty of fans for eVERYTHING!

Haha! That'd probably be my best bet. (this way I could try all these configurations out) But alas, I don't really want to spend extra cash right now. I'll have to flip a coin.


----------



## ehume

Hmm. Tator's tests favor the Blade Masters. Well, my tests were one run of BM's and two runs of YL's. My three YL's range in rpm from 1920 to 2120. Since the issue has come up, when I'm done with my current D14 runs I'll revisit the Mega and do a several runs with BM's and YL's.

Personally, I've found that I can't tell the difference between a PTS YL and a Jab-Tech YL. Jab-Tech says he gets the good fans now. In any case, he sells them for $3.33 with quantities of three or more. Given the variability of the fans, it's probably worth getting several to cull out the fastest fans.

BM's are available directly from CM at $8 each. They have this "refurbished" store. That's where I got mine.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ehume* 
Hmm. Tator's tests favor the Blade Masters. Well, my tests were one run of BM's and two runs of YL's. My three YL's range in rpm from 1920 to 2120. Since the issue has come up, when I'm done with my current D14 runs I'll revisit the Mega and do a several runs with BM's and YL's.

Personally, I've found that I can't tell the difference between a PTS YL and a Jab-Tech YL. Jab-Tech says he gets the good fans now. In any case, he sells them for $3.33 with quantities of three or more. Given the variability of the fans, it's probably worth getting several to cull out the fastest fans.

BM's are available directly from CM at $8 each. They have this "refurbished" store. That's where I got mine.

$3.33 per fan? Wow that's nice. I'd feel safer sticking with Petra, though. (just because of track record)

If the fans are so close in both noise and temperatures, I think the deciding factor would be the quality. (such as, which one supposedly lasts longer/has more consistent performance)

EDIT: Quick question. With Push/Pull set-ups, I usually connect both fans to a separate mobo header. However, if I wanted to set both of these to auto, that could lead to different speeds on both fans. (resulting in stress/built up heat) Anyway to remedy this without a fan controller? Would a fan splitter work? (as in, if I connected the two fans to the splitter, both of them would then change to the same speeds at the same time, correct?)


----------



## Faraz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ROM3000* 
Hey everyone. I just installed a Noctua NH-U12P in my case. Unfortunately, my top exhaust fan has been reduced to almost non-functional because there is roughly only 1-2 mm of clearance between the HSF and fan. Would I benefit at all from adding a different fan in there? I'm assuming I would need a fan with higher static pressure? Also would a thin fan work better, such as a 20 mm version? Some recommendations would be great. Lastly, here's a picture of the distance between HSF and fan.

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4782/1030092.jpg

I just installed this on a stock i7-930. What are your CPU temps like for that 920? I'm getting 37 on idle (ambient 24) and prime95 takes it up to 68 within a few minutes. That seems rather high to me. Are the i7 supposed to run that hot?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
EDIT: Quick question. With Push/Pull set-ups, I usually connect both fans to a separate mobo header. However, if I wanted to set both of these to auto, that could lead to different speeds on both fans. (resulting in stress/built up heat) Anyway to remedy this without a fan controller? Would a fan splitter work? (as in, if I connected the two fans to the splitter, both of them would then change to the same speeds at the same time, correct?)

Sorry, just caught your edit, but yes this will work just fine.


----------



## ROM3000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *faraz1729*


I just installed this on a stock i7-930. What are your CPU temps like for that 920? I'm getting 37 on idle (ambient 24) and prime95 takes it up to 68 within a few minutes. That seems rather high to me. Are the i7 supposed to run that hot?


I'm currently running the 920 at 3.6GHZ. My idle temps are 37Â°C with EIST enabled and my load temps are 69Â°C. Not sure about the ambient temperature in this room, but I'd say its around 70Â° F. How many fans do you have in your case? I have a fan in my optical drive bay directly intaking cool air for the HSF.


----------



## Faraz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ROM3000*


I'm currently running the 920 at 3.6GHZ. My idle temps are 37Â°C with EIST enabled and my load temps are 69Â°C. Not sure about the ambient temperature in this room, but I'd say its around 70Â° F. How many fans do you have in your case? I have a fan in my optical drive bay directly intaking cool air for the HSF.


I have two exhausts (one on top one in rear) and two intakes (lower front and bottom). And I'm using push-pull on the Noctua (with the stock fans). Maybe I should switch to Gentle Typhoons for that.

My room temp is about 5Â° F higher than yours, however, I'm guessing it's that front bay fan that's making the difference with the linear airflow through the cooler. I'll give that a try.


----------



## Yogi

Would there be any negative a/effects(?) if I made my side 230mm into an exhaust?
Current setup is Sflex-G & CM 140mm top exhaust ,no rear exhaust, bottom Sflex-G intake, Panaflo Med drive bay intake, 230mm side and front intake.
Reason I want to do this because I want to get a MK-13 & VRM-R5 for my 5850 and so all the hot air would be exhausting in my case and don't want it to a/effect(? lol) my CPU temps.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Yogi*


Would there be any negative a/effects(?) if I made my side 230mm into an exhaust?
Current setup is Sflex-G & CM 140mm top exhaust ,no rear exhaust, bottom Sflex-G intake, Panaflo Med front intake, 230mm side and front intake.
Reason I want to do this because I want to get a MK-13 & VRM-R5 for my 5850 and so all the hot air would be exhausting in my case and don't want it to a/effect(? lol) my CPU temps.


I think that'll negatively effect your CPU temps by stealing air from your HSF. Could be wrong though.


----------



## Tator Tot

@Shadow,

Hardware Secrets just did a review of the CM Vortex Plus looks to be a pretty good SFF cooler. The fan's a 92mm BladeMaster, so pretty good.


----------



## Yogi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I think that'll negatively effect your CPU temps by stealing air from your HSF. Could be wrong though.


I have a fan in my drive bay blowing towards the cpu. I bought some CM R4s so Im gunna put 4 of them on the side panel. Maybe try a few tests with them.
Bottom 2 intake top 2 exhaust


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Yogi*


I have a fan in my drive bay blowing towards the cpu. I bought some CM R4s so Im gunna put 4 of them on the side panel. Maybe try a few tests with them.
Bottom 2 intake top 2 exhaust










Hmm, tough to call if you ask me. Either the exhaust is going to steal that airflow, or it's not. Easiest way to figure it out is to just test it.


----------



## cyclometric

I have recently found 2 little-known online stores with great prices on cables and fans, and some other accessories. Their prices with shipping beat any of the retailers we all know.

*PCHCables.com*: When you're buying just a couple of splitters or other cables, it's really nice to be able to pay First Class Mail. I had to buy 2 splitters and a 2 12" fan extension cables recently, and the total came out to just $4.63 _including shipping.

_*XSFans.com*: They have great deals on small fans which work great for DIY GPU cooling, or other small fans and other little doo dads, and again, their shipping is very reasonable.

The sites are


and



Just my 2Â¢, hope this helps some folks out (is there somewhere else I should post about these sites, too?)

thanks,


----------



## Reactions

How do I know which direction the air blows from the fan? I've got GentleTyphoons. Is it like this: <--- Air | GentleTyphoon | GentleTyphoon Sticker. Or is it GentleTyphoon | GentleTyphoon Sticker --> Air


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Reactions*


How do I know which direction the air blows from the fan? I've got GentleTyphoons. Is it like this: <--- Air | GentleTyphoon | GentleTyphoon Sticker. Or is it GentleTyphoon | GentleTyphoon Sticker --> Air


In my guides fan section. You might have missed it:

Quote:



Note before fan installation: Most fans have small arrows on one side that show the direction the blades spin and the direction of the air flow.


They can be hard to find sometimes as they are pretty small arrows.


----------



## Yogi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cyclometric* 
I have recently found 2 little-known online stores with great prices on cables and fans, and some other accessories. Their prices with shipping beat any of the retailers we all know.

Nice find








SVC.com has free shipping on most of its cables and wires, but that PCH has way lower prices.


----------



## Duckmaffia

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Reactions*


How do I know which direction the air blows from the fan? I've got GentleTyphoons. Is it like this: <--- Air | GentleTyphoon | GentleTyphoon Sticker. Or is it GentleTyphoon | GentleTyphoon Sticker --> Air


You can just test this by holding a paper in front of the fan.
Gets sucked in (not 'in' lol) or blown away


----------



## Mattb2e

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Duckmaffia*


You can just test this by holding a paper in front of the fan.
Gets sucked in (not 'in' lol) or blown away










Agreed, with lower CFM fans a tissue can be used instead.


----------



## ocnf

Hi , I am new to fans cooling , would like to ask ,
*what's the different between performance fan and without performance fan control ?*

I plan to buy a fan control but worry it'll fry as what on the 1st post guide mention
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/8161/78423120.jpg

*How does a fan control works ? if a fan 3-pin with the speed of 2000rpm , can I adjust it to somewhere between 500rpm ?*
Thank you


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ocnf* 
Hi , I am new to fans cooling , would like to ask ,
*what's the different between performance fan and without performance fan control ?*

I plan to buy a fan control but worry it'll fry as what on the 1st post guide mention

*How does a fan control works ? if a fan 3-pin with the speed of 2000rpm , can I adjust it to somewhere between 500rpm ?*
Thank you

Each fan controller is different. The fan controller should have specs that tell the amount of AMP or wattage it can handle. Same thing can be said about fans: Each fan is different and will tell you what wattage or Amperage it has. As long as the fan's power isn't greater then the fan controller can handle then you will be fine.

Also, some fans have a minimum voltage they can run at so even if the fan controller is turned up half way you may need to turn it further just to get the fan spinning.....just mess with the knob to get it running and find out where you like the speed and noise of it.


----------



## ocnf

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Each fan controller is different. The fan controller should have specs that tell the amount of AMP or wattage it can handle. Same thing can be said about fans: Each fan is different and will tell you what wattage or Amperage it has. As long as the fan's power isn't greater then the fan controller can handle then you will be fine.

Also, some fans have a minimum voltage they can run at so even if the fan controller is turned up half way you may need to turn it further just to get the fan spinning.....just mess with the knob to get it running and find out where you like the speed and noise of it.


I am not sure about the supported AMP on the fan controller.I plan to use it on this fan http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835103163

Quote:



Voltage 12 VDC 12 VDC
Current 0.14A (Max. 0.21A) 0.14A (Max. 0.21A)
Power 1.68W (Max. 2.52W) 1.68W (Max. 2.52W)
Fan speed 1320 RPM 1320 RPM
Wind 31.72 CFM 31.72 CFM
Pressure 1.166 mmH2O 1.166 mmH2O


.How do I actually count the wattage knowing the minimum rpm speed it can run ?


----------



## shyamal890

what temp would I get in room if cooling coil in AC unit gives temp of 25C and room temp is 37C?


----------



## goat

I'm using an nzxt hades case and most of these heatsinks will not fit. It looks like I have about 130mm to work with. Does anyone have any suggestions for me?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goat* 
I'm using an nzxt hades case and most of these heatsinks will not fit. It looks like I have about 130mm to work with. Does anyone have any suggestions for me?

Take off the side panel fan and you'll have plenty of space to work with any tower heatsink up to 160mm tall.


----------



## Azriel1

Hello everyone, I hope you can help solve my dilemma.

I recently purchases Xigmatek's Thors Hammer for my i7-930 and two 120mm fans. However, the push side fan slides in nicely but touches the heat spreaders to my memory. Now it just barely touches it, is this still bad? I assumed it is and move the fan 6 inches away and mounted it in the drive bay in my case (HAF 932). So the pull Fan is mounted directly on the heat sink and the push fan is 6 inches away in the drive bay.

Now, I am considering getting a smaller fan (maybe 90mm) or anothe 120mm fan but smaller width. Whichever way I go if I ensure that the CFM is the same for push and pull am I good to go?

I appreciate the input!


----------



## Tator Tot

Everything has to match, not just CFM in a pushpull setup.

I'd re-put your push fan back on the heatsink, as it doesn't matter if it's slightly touching your RAM. That won't be a problem.


----------



## Azriel1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Everything has to match, not just CFM in a pushpull setup.

I'd re-put your push fan back on the heatsink, as it doesn't matter if it's slightly touching your RAM. That won't be a problem.


That's good to hear since that i what I wanted to do in the first place.

I'll give it go this evening. Thanks!


----------



## DesertPunk

Does anyone know the static pressure of the Panaflo or Rexus fans listed in the guide? Are they comparable to the San Aces cause I rather not have to order fans out of the UK if I could avoid it. Would the Delta 25s listed also be an acceptable choice too for a heatsink, Mugen-2 in this case


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DesertPunk*


Does anyone know the static pressure of the Panaflo or Rexus fans listed in the guide? Are they comparable to the San Aces cause I rather not have to order fans out of the UK if I could avoid it. Would the Delta 25s listed also be an acceptable choice too for a heatsink, Mugen-2 in this case


They also now sell them at Performance PC. The San Ace is just top notch but the Panaflo and Rexus would be 2nd best. The Delta's are great for 25mm fans as well. You truly won't go wrong with any of those but again the San Aces can be had in America and they are the best overall.


----------



## ehume

Here is where to find Panaflo specs.


----------



## DesertPunk

Thank you both, got my San Ace ordered.


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DesertPunk*


Thank you both, got my San Ace ordered.


It's the Prince of Fans, IMO. I use mine as a reference against which all others are measured.


----------



## DesertPunk

I know it pulls less energy then the Delta but considering the delta is listed at higher pressure and more cfm, although more noise too, is it really that much better? Or is it a matter of the overall package kinda thing? Watts, cfm, pressure, noise


----------



## kuya1284

I was just wondering if the VX in the listing could be replaced with the VX-RT. If you need more information on this cooler, please let me know. Thanks.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kuya1284* 
I was just wondering if the VX in the listing could be replaced with the VX-RT. If you need more information on this cooler, please let me know. Thanks.

Hey Kuya, Ven-X actually comes in another "flavor" as well; that being VenX Black. I could be wrong here but I believe they all are basically the same heatsink itself with slight aesthetic differences.

Black being...of course...black.
RT coming with a fan.

I'd like to leave the link and heatsink shown as the basic model as much as possible due to most of OCN wanting to choose their own fan. I would agree with that way of thinking as well due to the fact I don't like Thermalright fans all that much.

I will add a note that their are several versions however. Thanks for your input









+rep (grats virgin)


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:

due to the fact I don't like Thermalright fans all that much.
The Thermalright FDB series are the same as Scythe S-Flex. IE: Sony Fluid Dynamic Baring fans.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


The Thermalright FDB series are the same as Scythe S-Flex. IE: Sony Fluid Dynamic Baring fans.


The same or perform the same Tator? I are enlightened once again









EDIT1: What fan is the RT using...*goes into research mode*.

EDIT2: Including FDB 1300 ultra low noise Fan Cover set. Not bad, I would have picked a faster fan but its good for silence.


----------



## Tator Tot

They are the same as in; if you crack them open, you'll see everything is the same. The only difference is I don't think Thermalright sells a 2000 RPM model.

But other than that; each corresponding RPM model will perform the same (with the fault tolerance of +/- 5% that all fans have.)

The old TRUE that comes with fans uses FDB fans as well.

The Thermalright X-Silence fans are crap though.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


They are the same as in; if you crack them open, you'll see everything is the same. The only difference is I don't think Thermalright sells a 2000 RPM model.

But other than that; each corresponding RPM model will perform the same (with the fault tolerance of +/- 5% that all fans have.)

The old TRUE that comes with fans uses FDB fans as well.

The Thermalright X-Silence fans are crap though.


Roger, again though 1300 is a little too slow for my personal CPU fan use, not to mention the RT color scheme is a little strange, why they didn't go with black on black like previous fan "clips" I have no idea.

Agreed on X-Silence.


----------



## Tator Tot

Eh; I like the white on black.

But I've got a White/Black casemod I've been working on (and re-painted twice) so I might be a bit biased









Either way; I do agree, it should have been a 1900RPM PWM Model.

As Scythe has a new line of fans out; the KAMA-Flex which is just a PWM version of the Sony FDB fan series.

But that's just my personal opinion.


----------



## ehume

Info on S-Flex and TR-FDB fans here.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ehume* 
Info on S-Flex and TR-FDB fans here.

Ehume; you should really link to the individual post instead of the whole thread.

Alot less loading to do then.

http://www.overclock.net/9232288-post31.html


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Ehume; you should really link to the individual post instead of the whole thread.

Alot less loading to do then.

http://www.overclock.net/9232288-post31.html


I thought I did link to the individual post. Let me go edit, then.

-----------------------------

Well, I tried but you still get the whole page. How do you avoid that?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ehume*


I thought I did link to the individual post. Let me go edit, then.

-----------------------------

Well, I tried but you still get the whole page. How do you avoid that?


You see how there's the (permalink) option by a post, and the # option by a post.

Use the number one. The number version will only link to THAT post. And not the thread (but there will be al ink showing what thread it's from.)


----------



## ehume

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
You see how there's the (permalink) option by a post, and the # option by a post.

Use the number one. The number version will only link to THAT post. And not the thread (but there will be al ink showing what thread it's from.)

Nope. Permalink sends you to a single post, but the whole page loads.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ehume*


Nope. Permalink sends you to a single post, but the whole page loads.


Like I said; click on the number (IE: your post number #603) not the permalink button


----------



## dafour

Wich CPU cooling you guys recommend?I would like to keep my Q6600 under 70 on 1.48v wich de h50 cannot.
My budget is a 60€ (75$) for the block with fans /or without.
Thx alot!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dafour*


Wich CPU cooling you guys recommend?I would like to keep my Q6600 under 70 on 1.48v wich de h50 cannot.
My budget is a 60€ (75$) for the block with fans /or without.
Thx alot!


Noctua D14

Unless you're saying W/ VAT

Then Cogage Arrow + 2 x ZM-F3


----------



## kuya1284

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
Hey Kuya, Ven-X actually comes in another "flavor" as well; that being VenX Black. I could be wrong here but I believe they all are basically the same heatsink itself with slight aesthetic differences.

Black being...of course...black.
RT coming with a fan.

I'd like to leave the link and heatsink shown as the basic model as much as possible due to most of OCN wanting to choose their own fan. I would agree with that way of thinking as well due to the fact I don't like Thermalright fans all that much.

I will add a note that their are several versions however. Thanks for your input









+rep (grats virgin)









Hey Shadow, thanks for the virgin rep. LOL. I just brought up the VX-RT, since your chart had various information as to what the products came with.

I honestly can't give an opinion whether I love the stock Thermalright fan or not, but compared to the stock Intel HSF, the VX-RT made a 15 degree difference in my temps. I'm was pretty surprised as I never imagined buying anything this big. A couple years ago, when I used to see these huge HSFs popping up on the shelves at Fry's, I used to wonder who the hell would need such a thing. Now I understand why.

So I just spent the last couple nights OCing my system (as well as documenting setting changes made, temperatures, bsod errors, etc). I'm new to OCing, but been building systems for a long time. I just got my system stable at 3.9GHz on the VX-RT. My max core temps with load are 70|69|68|67. I'm planning on buying 2 GT AP-15s in a couple weeks, and I'm very excited to see any improvements I might gain.

Anyway, I love the info provided. Keep it up.


----------



## sicarii

hi guys,

do you think the megahalems will fit onto my Gigabyte P35-DS3L board in a Thermaltake V4 chassis?

here are some pics:



















Dimensions: 
475.0 x 190.0 x 430.0 mm
(18.7 x 7.5 x 16.9 inch)

Mobo: Gigabyte P35-DS3L


----------



## Tator Tot

It's short enough for the case. And while the board has the CPU socket a little high; I wouldn't worry about it. You may loose a top fan though.


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Like I said; click on the number (IE: your post number #603) not the permalink button


Thanks. Got it now. You've taught me how to fish . . .


----------



## Tator Tot

Good, I'd like some Salmon.

Possibly some halibut


----------



## dafour

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Noctua D14

Unless you're saying W/ VAT

Then Cogage Arrow + 2 x ZM-F3


The D14 is about 86$ without shipping at it cheapest.Too bad







I would like to keep it under 60€ 
Cant seem to find the Arrow in nearest shops too.
How about the U12P SE2 or Mugen2 or TRUE?
thx alot!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dafour*


The D14 is about 86$ without shipping at it cheapest.Too bad







I would like to keep it under 60€ 
Cant seem to find the Arrow in nearest shops too.
How about the U12P SE2 or Mugen2 or TRUE?
thx alot!


TRUE will definitely cool your system well.

U12P...eh I have a love hate relationship with this cooler. It does well and it's stock version (on the U12P-SE2) is very queit and supports all sockets.

But damn does it not cool well. I can equal performance out of the Mugen 2 or S1283 w/ Push-Pull fans


----------



## ehume

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dafour* 
The D14 is about 86$ without shipping at it cheapest.Too bad







I would like to keep it under 60â‚¬
Cant seem to find the Arrow in nearest shops too.
How about the U12P SE2 or Mugen2 or TRUE?
thx alot!

D14 comes with fans. You have to buy fans for the others. Watch these guys for sales. I bought my D14 from them, and the price and shipping was less back then. They have warehouses around the world. I got mine from Vancouver, Canada.


----------



## kuya1284

Hey Shadow, just an idea (and sorry if someone already requested this... the thread is GINORMOUS... haha), but how about adding (general) discussions about fan placement throughout the case as well as HSF positioning and their impact on the CPU's temps. I've seen various discussions on why one may be better off aiming their HSF such that the heat exhausts from the back. I've also read discussions about side panel fans affecting the air flow that gets directed towards the CPU cooler.

I don't think you should I go in depth, especially since these types of considerations are on a Case by Case basis, pardon the pun. Maybe just a blurb telling people that depending on their type of case, airflow and temps MAY be affected and they should conduct their own tests to determine what works best for them.

Just from my personal experience, I ran several tests with and without my side fan. What I noticed was that with the fan off, my CPU temps dropped by only 1 to 2 degrees... mostly 1. However, my IOH/NB and GPU temps jumped up between 3 to 6 degrees. With it on, of course.. the opposite... CPU temps were a little warmer, but my IOH and GPU temps were a lot cooler. Personally, I opt to keep the fan on.

I'll conduct more tests with this as soon as I get my GT's and have some free time to rework the thermal paste on my IOH. I'll also experiment with positioning the cooler such that it exhausts to the top fans.


----------



## ThaJoker

how would i get my 6 case fans to run from cpu-fan header with power? as in get faster the hotter the Cpu gets...?


----------



## ThaJoker

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThaJoker* 
how would i get my 6 case fans to run from cpu temp? as in get faster the hotter the Cpu gets...?

help please!!!!! i dont wanna start a thread.


----------



## ehume

I am currently running six fans from the cpu header: one Noctua P14 in center position on a Noctua NH-D14, two Scythe/Nidec Gentle Typhoon AP-15's in push-pull on the D14, one P14 on top, one AP-12 in front and one AP-13 on the bottom. I am using five Y-cables.

Current:

2 P14's @ 0.10A = 0.20A
2 AP-15's @ 0.083A = 0.166A
1 AP-13 @ 0.034A
1 AP-12 @ 0.023A

= 0.423A

Gigabyte tech support tells me my mb fan headers are good for 1A each.


----------



## ThaJoker

so the same could be said about my mobo cpu-fan header?(sig) ..... That being the case would my Gentle Typhoons still be able to reach thier full 1850rpm on a daisy chain of Y cables from the cpu-fan header...? what could happen fry my mobo!!!?!!


----------



## ehume

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThaJoker* 
so the same could be said about my cpu fan?(sig) ..... That being the case would my Gentle Typhoons still be able to reach thier full 1850rpm on a daisy chain of Y cables from the cpu-fan header...? what could happen fry my mobo!!!?!!

You can put 12 AP-15's on one Gigabyte mb header. I don't think you'll fry a thing.


----------



## ThaJoker

Thanks heaps dude i think that you've puty my mind at ease, i've been looking for fan controllers that can adjust with the cpu but no such thing. I want to run my whole case off of cpu temps!!

Any other opinions out there???


----------



## ehume

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThaJoker* 
Thanks heaps dude i think that you've puty my mind at ease, i've been looking for fan controllers that can adjust with the cpu but no such thing. I want to run my whole case off of cpu temps!

So do I, so I'm doing it.


----------



## ThaJoker

You do realise that i mean "including power" like i dont just want the 3pin to control speed but deliver power too, as i dont want to use molex for power too much clutter otherwise.


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThaJoker*


You do realise that i mean "including power" like i dont just want the 3pin to control speed but deliver power too, as i dont want to use molex for power too much clutter otherwise.


But of course, m'seur. That's how it's done.

I'm just now testing an upgraded cast of fans: the AP-12 in front was replaced by the AP-13. The AP-13 in the bottom was replaced by an AP-14. They are all powered by the five Y-cables, and purring softly in their test run.

Actually, I have accidentally put at least 1.2A on my cpu header with no discernible damage.


----------



## ThaJoker

but surely ampage isnt the issue. i heard that the volts biengs drawn through the mother board will fry it. http://www.overclock.net/air-cooling...ans-molex.html

case and point...


----------



## ThaJoker

BTW im getting this ....http://www.nzxt.com/new/products/fan_control/sentry_lxe

OMG SEXY


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

well, I'm finally in the US for the summer, and I'm getting a cooler.
I got a Hyper 212+ (just because its cheap) and now I'm looking at both Noctua D14 and Megahalems rev b. I can't decide which one to get.

I'll list my understanding of both coolers below

Megahalems:
- Cheaper than D14 by about $20
- Could be used with a pair of Yateloons I got from petra in push/pull
- Include clips for push/pull

Noctua:
- following ehume's review, yateloons on both sides, and kaze maru 2 1700 rpm in the middle
- does not include clips

I can't decide.. I hope someone can help with that (as I might get crazy and buy both)


----------



## Tator Tot

Noctua D14 includes the needed clips....

And I'd get the D14, it's THE BEST air cooler out right now.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

I thought I read somewhere that it only include clips for one fan or something like that.
Or in other words, it doesnt have enough clips for push/pull + middle fan?

I remember reading that you would have to contact noctua for that.

Thanks for the reply


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever**


I thought I read somewhere that it only include clips for one fan or something like that.
Or in other words, it doesnt have enough clips for push/pull + middle fan?

I remember reading that you would have to contact noctua for that.

Thanks for the reply










It's got 2 sets of fan clips. For a third set of clips you'll have to contact them. But at that point it's useless to do so.

Also you should know from reading this guide; YOU SHOULD NOT MIX AND MATCH FANS ON A HEATSINK! It's bad for your fans.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

well according to ehume's review regarding the noctua, kaze maru 2 is at the same range as the yateloons .. which probably wont affect the fans..

So How good is the noctua in relation to the megahalems?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Noctua D14 includes the needed clips....

And I'd get the D14, it's THE BEST air cooler out right now.


Cogage Arrow's better and cheaper.


----------



## Blackhawk4

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Cogage Arrow's better and cheaper.










The chimp speaks the truth.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever**


well according to ehume's review regarding the noctua, kaze maru 2 is at the same range as the yateloons .. which probably wont affect the fans..

So How good is the noctua in relation to the megahalems?


Noctua does a better job cooling.

Mix & Match still bad. Close enough =/= the same.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blackhawk4*


The chimp speaks the truth.


Not really. Partly true. Partly false.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Cogage Arrow's better and *cheaper*.










That's true; except it doesn't come with all the accessories that the Noctua does. And I have yet to see anything saying the IFX-14 or Cogage Arrow cool better. 
Noctua's got a better base as well.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

lol I know it probably does a better cooling job. What I meant is that, is it a noticable difference? or half a degree or something..

I'm this close to actually getting both and trying it myself :/
I just bought an i7-930 earlier today from microcenter (just because)


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
That's true; except it doesn't come with all the accessories that the Noctua does.

What accessories could you want with a cooler? All you really need is the thermal compound (if you don't have any of your own), mounting equipment and bracket(s), the cooler itself, and the fan mount(s).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
And I have yet to see anything saying the IFX-14 or Cogage Arrow cool better.

The IFX-14 is long past its prime so we're probably best off leaving it behind. As for the Arrow...










http://www.overclockerstech.com/wp/w...02/oc-load.jpg


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever** 
lol I know it probably does a better cooling job. What I meant is that, is it a noticable difference? or half a degree or something..

I'm this close to actually getting both and trying it myself :/
I just bought an i7-930 earlier today from microcenter (just because)

It'll do better on higher heatloads. I've seen it personally be a Megahalem with 2 x Yates on a i7 @ 4.2Ghz

Also, I would hold off for the Silver Arrow same MSRP as the D14, same number of accessories, but the fans are better. And match.


----------



## Behemoth777

The d14 is also much quieter than the arrow. I would take the d14 any day over the arrow. Sadly, not enough money..


----------



## ehume

NH-D14 is better than the Megahalems.

With stock fans, nearly the same cooling as a Megahalems with a San Ace -H1011, but less than half the noise.

With a San Ace in push and no other fans, the D14 is at least 2c cooler than a Mega.

With push/pull, you get much better results than you would with a Mega and two fans. Here is where I wonder about an Arrow: it has a wider gap than the D14, so the transition between the two towers may not go as well.

Because of that gap you can put about any two fans you want as push/pull. For example, I used a 9G1212G101 and a 9G1212E1011. I also used a Panaflo medium and an Ultra Kaze 2000.

Then there was the three 9G1212P4G03 setup (130cfm each). Oh how they screamed, but oh how they cooled.

Definitely, the D14.

My own rig's final configuration uses two GT AP-14's as push-pull with a P14 in the middle . . . on the D14. It's my "14" rig. I'll be using my Mega in my non-OC'd rig with a very quiet fan.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Behemoth777* 
The d14 is also much quieter than the arrow. I would take the d14 any day over the arrow. Sadly, not enough money..









You know it depends on the fans, right? Heatsinks don't make noise, their fans do. If you want nice low-speed fans, you can get Zalman ZM-F3s cheap anywhere and use their 7v resistors; you'll get the performance you want at Noctua-ish noise levels, for less money.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
What accessories could you want with a cooler? All you really need is the thermal compound (if you don't have any of your own), mounting equipment and bracket(s), the cooler itself, and the fan mount(s).

Arrow doesn't come with all the mounts that the D14 does. Arrow only comes with the mounts for Intel sockets and not AMD Sockets. Has no fans (which atleast you can sell Noctua fans after you buy the cooler for a pretty penny) and doesn't include clips for 2 or 3 fans. Just one set. The other stuff is optional.

But like I said, the Thermalright Silver Arrow is most likely going to be the BEST value and cooler around.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
The IFX-14 is long past its prime so we're probably best off leaving it behind. As for the Arrow...

Uh... Arrow = IFX w/ strait fins instead of the IFX style fins....

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
http://www.overclockerstech.com/wp/w...02/oc-load.jpg

As for these results; a 1*C difference could be called a bust in most temps. Nor did they note about repeating the tests over to assure consistent results.


----------



## ninjaburrito

make a rank showing the noise level of cpu fans like you did with performance
thanks


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

Well, I dont have time to wait for silver arrow. (Being on a vacation in the states and all)
Out of curiousity, when is it supposed to be out?

I think I'll go with the Noctua. Thanks everyone for contributing


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever** 
Well, I dont have time to wait for silver arrow. (Being on a vacation in the states and all)
Out of curiousity, when is it supposed to be out?

I think I'll go with the Noctua. Thanks everyone for contributing









"Sometime This Week" as of 3 days ago.

So no exact date. But they're probably beign shipped to retailers right now.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

I'll wait a couple of days before i order then. I doubt it will be released by then though.

Thanks for the info


----------



## Tweeky

Cheap TIM 4.3 penny's per gram.








Desitin diaper rash paste contains 40% zinc oxide - #1 choice of Moms.








This stuff kept my AMD Athlon 64 3700 overclock at 2552MHz at 17C above ambient running Prime95.








This CPU has AMD stock cooler from an AMD Phenom II 965 mounted.
See pictures and try this stuff and let me know if it really works.


----------



## Mattb2e

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tweeky* 
Cheap TIM 4.3 pennyâ€™s per gram.








Desitin diaper rash paste contains 40% zinc oxide - #1 choice of Moms.








This stuff kept my AMD Athlon 64 3700 overclock at 2552MHz at 17C above ambient running Prime95.








This CPU has AMD stock cooler from an AMD Phenom II 965 mounted.
See pictures and try this stuff and let me know if it really works.









You used Butt Cream to cool your CPU??????????????????


----------



## Faraz

Haha, that deserves to go in the Ghetto Rigging thread.

*Tweeky*, are you serious, because that's awesome.


----------



## ehume

And Zinc Oxide particles! Borzemoi!


----------



## tiramoko

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835109027

what do you think this fan for hyper 212+ pull/push?

does this produce more static pressure than cm r4?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tiramoko* 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835109027

what do you think this fan for hyper 212+ pull/push?

does this produce more static pressure than cm r4?

Those fans are good.

Though; instead of getting two of those, for the same result you could just pick up another CM Blade Master which would match the fan that comes with the Hyper212+


----------



## tiramoko




----------



## tiramoko

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Those fans are good.

Though; instead of getting two of those, for the same result you could just pick up another CM Blade Master which would match the fan that comes with the Hyper212+


do you think you could recommend me a fan with more static pressure and cheap? if i could get GT, i would get it but its too expensive for meT_T

this guy told me about the blademaster fan and r4

"That's the same fan that's already on the Hyper 212+. Those aren't really the best fans to put on there, even though it does have a little more static pressure than the R4's. You're also getting a quieter fan in the Thermalright one that pushes more air, so it's a better value honestly."


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tiramoko* 
do you think you could recommend me a fan with more static pressure and cheap? if i could get GT, i would get it but its too expensive for meT_T

this guy told me about the blademaster fan and r4

"That's the same fan that's already on the Hyper 212+. Those aren't really the best fans to put on there, even though it does have a little more static pressure than the R4's. You're also getting a quieter fan in the Thermalright one that pushes more air, so it's a better value honestly."

The man doesn't know fans then.

The Thermalright FDB & Scythe S-Flex fans (both Sony Fluid Dynamic Fans) have great barrings and are pretty quiet.

Though CM Blade Masters & CM R4's are drastically different fans.

CM R4 has 1.3mm H20 rating of static pressure.
CM Blade Master has a 3.9mmH20 rating of static Pressure.

Honestly, 2 Blade Masters w/ a GeLID PWM Y Cable are the best solution. The fans are not noisy at all when controlled by a motherboard. And you can usually set them to a specific temp for when you want them to ramp up to full speed.


----------



## tiramoko

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
The man doesn't know fans then.

The Thermalright FDB & Scythe S-Flex fans (both Sony Fluid Dynamic Fans) have great barrings and are pretty quiet.

Though CM Blade Masters & CM R4's are drastically different fans.

CM R4 has 1.3mm H20 rating of static pressure.
CM Blade Master has a 3.9mmH20 rating of static Pressure.

Honestly, 2 Blade Masters w/ a GeLID PWM Y Cable are the best solution. The fans are not noisy at all when controlled by a motherboard. And you can usually set them to a specific temp for when you want them to ramp up to full speed.

do i really need to get the gelid cable if i use the blademaster?

what other fan do you recommend if i dont want the blademaster?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tiramoko* 
do i really need to get the gelid cable if i use the blademaster?

what other fan do you recommend if i dont want the blademaster?

The Thermalright FDB 2000RPM Models are the only other ones worth it for the money.

And the PWM Y cable is a great thing to have. You can have both Blade Masters (or Thermalright fans) hooked up to one header on your motherboard.


----------



## realcyberbob

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
And the PWM Y cable is a great thing to have. You can have both Blade Masters (or Thermalright fans) hooked up to one header on your motherboard.

I thought most people agreed that it wasn't a good idea to have 2 fans hooked up to one header on your motherboard?


----------



## tiramoko

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
The Thermalright FDB 2000RPM Models are the only other ones worth it for the money.

And the PWM Y cable is a great thing to have. You can have both Blade Masters (or Thermalright fans) hooked up to one header on your motherboard.


should i get it? coz i can use hyper212 stock fan for my back case and return the fan that im currently using? is it really worth it?

i


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tiramoko*


should i get it? coz i can use hyper212 stock fan for my back case and return the fan that im currently using? is it really worth it?

i


The Hyper 212+ has a low FPI (Fins Per Inch) so I'd just get the Blade Master and Y Cable, save you some scratch. It's not really worth it to get 2 new fans.


----------



## tiramoko

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


The Hyper 212+ has a low FPI (Fins Per Inch) so I'd just get the Blade Master and Y Cable, save you some scratch. It's not really worth it to get 2 new fans.


is it necessary to get the y cable?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tiramoko* 
is it necessary to get the y cable?

If you wish to run both the fans off the same Mobo Header.


----------



## ehume

Add the Amperage of the fans. Under 1 Amp total, you're OK.


----------



## tiramoko

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
If you wish to run both the fans off the same Mobo Header.

if dont? what will happen?

it seems that the 3pin fan connector is controlling the rpm of my hyper212+ because when everytime i stress my pc, it goes up to 2000rp, when its not it is around 1400rpm..

but what if i put it on different 3pins? is that ok?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ehume* 
Add the Amperage of the fans. Under 1 Amp total, you're OK.

what is this?? im clueless


----------



## kuya1284

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tiramoko* 
what is this?? im clueless









Fans have Amp ratings. Look at the specifications of the fans that you want, then add the values of the amp ratings. If the sum exceeds 1 Amp, you will encounter problems on a single header.


----------



## tiramoko

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kuya1284* 
Fans have Amp ratings. Look at the specifications of the fans that you want, then add the values of the amp ratings. If the sum exceeds 1 Amp, you will encounter problems on a single header.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...6823&CatId=802

it says there current is 0.36A. is this the amp rating?

header means 1 3pin socket? is that ok i put the other fan to another 3 pin socket


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tiramoko*


http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...6823&CatId=802

it says there current is 0.36A. is this the amp rating?

header means 1 3pin socket? is that ok i put the other fan to another 3 pin socket


The 4Pin PWM header on your board can handle 1 AMP total draw.

And yes the .36A is your Amp rating for the fan.

So 2 fans is .72A, which can be powered by your board. ANd it'll be the same as having the 1 fan connected; when your CPU gets stressed it'll increase the fan speed. When it's idle, it willd ecrease.


----------



## mm67

Or get this Akasa PWM splitter, it takes power from PSU and PWM signal from fan header. http://www.akasa.com.tw/update.php?t...model=AK-CB002

I have my 5 case fans connected to Cpu header and running temperature controlled:
2 * Scythe Slip Stream 120 PWM Adjustable
2 * Arctic Cooling AF12025 PWM
1* Akasa Apache


----------



## shade5234

Where can I find silicon pads to put on a coolers blade to make it quieter? 
Thx.


----------



## Dorkseid

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shade5234*


Where can I find silicon pads to put on a coolers blade to make it quieter? 
Thx.


Which blade do you mean...? Fan blade? Sling Blade?? Blade of the Immortal???


----------



## shade5234

Fan blade, isn't it the only blade in the cooler?








don't know anything about this, I just read somewhere that you can make the cooler vibrate less by putting silicon pads and this makes it quieter.
Would appreciate more info.
Questions:
1. Can I put a pad on the psu fan to make it quieter too?
2. Is it worth it?


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shade5234*


Fan blade, isn't it the only blade in the cooler?








don't know anything about this, I just read somewhere that you can make the cooler vibrate less by putting silicon pads and this makes it quieter.
Would appreciate more info.
Questions:
1. Can I put a pad on the psu fan to make it quieter too?
2. Is it worth it?


This.


----------



## tiramoko

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
The 4Pin PWM header on your board can handle 1 AMP total draw.

And yes the .36A is your Amp rating for the fan.

So 2 fans is .72A, which can be powered by your board. ANd it'll be the same as having the 1 fan connected; when your CPU gets stressed it'll increase the fan speed. When it's idle, it willd ecrease.

i already bought the cable, i just need to get the fan.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

Quick question.. jab-tech gets their YT fan shipment directly from YT right?
Edit: anyone know of a coupon code to use with jab-tech?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever** 
Quick question.. jab-tech gets their YT fan shipment directly from YT right?
Edit: anyone know of a coupon code to use with jab-tech?

Jab-Tech says they get their Yate's directly from Yate Loon. But no confirmation on that.

And the Yate's I got from Jab-Tech were not the same as the ones from Petra's.

Use Petra's or DangerDen if you're in the US.
If you're in the EU use Aquatuning


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

eh, I already went ahead and ordered 4 ..
I already have another 4 from petra... How can one tell the difference
(I'm currently in the US on vacation, I live in the middle east)


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever**


eh, I already went ahead and ordered 4 ..
I already have another 4 from petra... How can one tell the difference
(I'm currently in the US on vacation, I live in the middle east)


Well some Jab-Techs are Open Corner; but all Petra's are closed Corner.

My Petra's also had shorter cables than the Jab-Techs. But not all the Jab-Tech's I got had the same cable length.

Jab-Tech's have different internals too. And are a bit lighter.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

Well I just got my noctua D-14, it looks sexy! Too bad I'm not home to actually test use it with my sig rig!

Also, I stated before that I bought a CM hyper 212+ for its good performance + cheapness. I wanted to buy a blademaster fan for it. But it was $14! So I went to microcenter and got a SECOND hyper 212+ cause its only for $20 over there.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Well some Jab-Techs are Open Corner; but all Petra's are closed Corner.

My Petra's also had shorter cables than the Jab-Techs. But not all the Jab-Tech's I got had the same cable length.

Jab-Tech's have different internals too. And are a bit lighter.


when you say open corners, what do you mean?
I received the ones from Jab-tech, they look exactly the same as as the ones ehume posted in his megahalems 65 fan testing thread found here:
http://www.overclock.net/air-cooling...ans-112-a.html

Well, the exaust view is exactly the same. My intake view has the D12SH-12 sticker on it. I'm not sure why his doesnt (I'm guessing he removed it)

as for cable length, and physical differences from petra's, I cant tell till I get back to my country (I have 4 from petra's over there)


----------



## Tator Tot

Close corner fans have that thing inbetween each side of the fan. Open ones do not


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

The place where the screw goes in?
The first picture is closed and the second is open right?

If so, the ones I received are closed..


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever**


The place where the screw goes in?
The first picture is closed and the second is open right?

If so, the ones I received are closed..


Yeah you got it right.

Like I said; Jab-Tech has varying models for some reason. And the only real way to know if they're "Real" yates or not is to test them.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Yeah you got it right.

Like I said; Jab-Tech has varying models for some reason. And the only real way to know if they're "Real" yates or not is to test them.

What should I notice?
ehume couldnt find a difference in performance (He had one from petra, one from jab-tech, and one from a third place I forgot it's name).. so I'm assuming its not something I can really know?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever**


What should I notice?
ehume couldnt find a difference in performance (He had one from petra, one from jab-tech, and one from a third place I forgot it's name).. so I'm assuming its not something I can really know?


Measuring the RPM, CFM, Static Pressure, & dB ratings of the fan.

You can also open them up and compare the motors


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

Opening it up is probably too advanced for me to do. I'm new to this :/

Mind linking me to something easy to read on how to do such a thing? (Measuring.. not opening up)


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever**


Opening it up is probably too advanced for me to do. I'm new to this :/

Mind linking me to something easy to read on how to do such a thing? (Measuring.. not opening up)


You would need tools to do it.

Though for the sounds; you can use your ear to tell you. 
My one last living Jab-Tech yate clicks terribly at 7v And has some terrible motor grind.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

I doubt I would be able to notice any difference by hearing. But I'll try that Thanks.
Thanks for all your help man. I appreciate it.


----------



## Tator Tot

ShadowClock, you'll want to add this thread to the OP as a Note about Yate Loon fans.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


ShadowClock, you'll want to add this thread to the OP as a Note about Yate Loon fans.


Added, thanks Tator! /highfive


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Added, thanks Tator! /highfive












No problem man.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

so..
how can I get a third fan clips set for my D14?
and are there any other alternatives I could be using until I actually get them?


----------



## kuya1284

Quote:



Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever**


so..
how can I get a third fan clips set for my D14?
and are there any other alternatives I could be using until I actually get them?


The alternative would be to use zip ties for now.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever**


so..
how can I get a third fan clips set for my D14?
and are there any other alternatives I could be using until I actually get them?


Email Noctua or use Zip-Ties


----------



## ehume

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever** 
so..
how can I get a third fan clips set for my D14?
and are there any other alternatives I could be using until I actually get them?

You write to Noctua with a copy of your invoice and ask for a third set of fan stuff. I did, and they sent me clips, pegs and pads. However, I use only the pads. Look:










You can see from this diagram that attaching a third fan with Noctua clips will cause the clips for the third fan to interfere with the clips for the middle fan. Instead, use Megahalems clips, either for 25mm fans or 38mm fans (free shipping). That's how I fasten my third fan to my D14:










You can use a fan gasket instead of Noctua pads to damp down any vibrations.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

Thanks guys, and thanks ehume for the explanation. So a third set will interfere with the middle fan huh..
In that case, should I stick with the megahalems clips? does it work perfectly or is it a bit of a hassle to put on? (It's my first time dealing with push/pull so I'm just trying to understand it in theory







)

25mm if using a 25mm fan and 38mm if using a 38mm fan right? .. stupid question I know..









Would you suggest I keep the stock fans or replace them with 2 YT and a kaze maru 2 fan?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever** 
Thanks guys, and thanks ehume for the explanation. So a third set will interfere with the middle fan huh..
In that case, should I stick with the megahalems clips? does it work perfectly or is it a bit of a hassle to put on? (It's my first time dealing with push/pull so I'm just trying to understand it in theory







)

25mm if using a 25mm fan and 38mm if using a 38mm fan right? .. stupid question I know..









Would you suggest I keep the stock fans or replace them with 2 YT and a kaze maru 2 fan?

Yup. 25mm/38mm depends on the fan. They work great. The pic I posted is my final rig, so you can see I believe in Megahalems clips.

When I was fan-testing on the D14 (I have to convert the spreadsheet to a bunch of charts. It'll get done . . . eventually) I used nothing but Megahalems clips because they were far quicker and easier in getting fans on and off, even with Noctua fans. You can't use them in the middle, though. For that you go with Noctua clips or some other flange-grabbing clip, like a Scythe type A.










It's hard to beat the stock D14 fans. I ended up using The Fourteens - a P14 and two AP-14's on the D14 - because I could get cooling equivalent to Noctua fannage (P12+P14+P12) with several DB less noise.

If you use a Kaze Maru in the middle you get a little better cooling and a lot more noise. You also have to file down the ears so the pegs will fit. If you use a Kaze Maru 2, you have to mod the fan:










You get better performance, but it's 5 dB louder (9 dB for the Kaze Maru 1900). Best performance is two UK3K's or two San Ace -H1011's in push-pull with either nothing in the middle or a shroud.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

Thanks for the very clear answer ehume.
Now I'm a bit depressed.. I have lots of fans in hand

Besides the CM led ones already on my case, I have:
4 YT from petra
4 YT from J-T
2 Kaze Maru 2
2 Scythe slip streams
4 CM Red led fans ($5.99 from microcenter)
2 Blademasters from 2 hyper 212+ (The fans cost $14 while the whole cooler costs $20 so I bought two)

So out of these, you would suggest I get P12 for a push/pull, two A14 if I want a few DB less with equivelant cooling, or 2 San Ace with nothing in the middle?

San Ace is a 38mm right? (do the noctua clip fans support 25mm and 38mm?)

Also, do you mind (from your tests) posting temps/db you got using the P12, A14, and 2 San Aces?

Thanks ehume. It seems like I would rep every post you make


----------



## ehume

Single runs on the same day, 4GHz on my sig rig (not the only runs of these fans), from cpu fan header (not Molex):

Stock cooling = 52c over ambient, 27.5 dBA

D12SH-12 > KM2-1700 > D12SH-12 = 48c over ambient, 39.5 dBA (0.5 dB more than a San Ace in free air)

D12SH-12 > KM-1900 > D12SH-12 = 48c over ambient, 40 dBA

9G1212H101 push = 49c over ambient, 40.5 dBA

9G1212H101 > gap > 9G1212H101 47c over ambient, 41 dBA

UK3K push = 47.5c over ambient, 43 dBA
UK3K > gap > UK3K = 47c over ambient, 44.5 dBA

Decibel measurements were actually 20 DBA higher, at 10cm. They were converted to standard 1m distances for theoretical comparison. The noise is generally not attenuated as much as theory would suggest because of case acoustics.

Expect to drop another 0.5c by using a shroud in the middle.


----------



## ehume

Oh, yes. Found this pic of 2x38mm fans (San Aces) with shroud:


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

Thanks a lot ehume.
Well it seems that there is not that much of a difference going from stock to anything else (Although I might try the KM2 & 2 YT setup)..

One thing though, when you said stock cooling, you still meant that you added a second P12 right?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever** 
One thing though, when you said stock cooling, you still meant that you added a second P12 right?

Nope. Stock is stock: P12 > P14 > nofan.

Triple Noctua = P12 > P14 > P12 = 41.5c over ambient, 28.5 dBA equivalent.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

I just thought you made a mistake there








You did make a mistake now though.. its 51.5c I'm guessing









I posted a question in a thread yesterday but it never got answered. I'll post it here again

Quote:

I was thinking.. on a case such as the HAF 922 or 932, if you had a something like hyper 212+ with two identical fans in push/pull setup (for sake of the example lets say high speed yate loons).

Would that mean that the back (exaust fan) or the side exaust fans should be yateloons as well?

My rationalization is based on the fact that yateloons move more air than the regular included fans, so hot air wont move out as fast.

But then again, we have the back, the top AND the side fans for exaust, which evens it out?

I hope you guys understand the question
Applies to D14 as well. Since the cooler blows out to back fan, does it make a difference if it wasnt a YT? (assuming a YT was used in a push/pull)


----------



## ehume

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever** 
I just thought you made a mistake there








You did make a mistake now though.. its 51.5c I'm guessing









I posted a question in a thread yesterday but it never got answered. I'll post it here again

Applies to D14 as well. Since the cooler blows out to back fan, does it make a difference if it wasnt a YT? (assuming a YT was used in a push/pull)

You're right. That is the heatspreader temp over ambient. I'm not used to that yet. On the day that I ran that triple, the cpu temps for both it and the stock setup ran 50c over ambient. This is one of the reasons I am still puzzling out my data: it seemed to vary across days when the system ran at 4GHz. I don't have a triple run on the day the stock ran at 52c.

YL push vs YL pull: seems to be a 2c difference in favor of YL push. This is where I ran into a situation where having a variety of fans, from the YL D12SH to the San Ace, made no difference in temps. It seems that the Noctuas in center and pull would let just so much air through and no more. And with various fans in pull, they were dependent on how much air the Noctuas in push and center gave them. However, putting really studly fans on the back end (like the San Ace) would pull the temps down to the same as having the strong fan in push.

It's all very puzzling to me, and I'm still trying to make sense of it all.

One thing to understand, though. The D14 is really two coolers, linked by heatpipes and airflow. In this they differ from heatsinks like the VX and the Megahalems. For example, you can put fans of differing strengths in push and pull, especially if you leave a gap in the middle. The stronger fan will mot overdrive the other.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

Oh I think I confused you there (even though that info is nice to know)
Cause I believe it was Tater Tot who mentioned a few days ago that having Two non-identical fans will hurt the cooler. From what I understood, being *technically* two coolers and having space in the middle, different fans are ok to use?

What I meant was not the pull fan on the cooler itself, I meant the pull fan in the BACK off the case.

I'm not sure, but I think your case doesnt have a back fan right behind the cooler. Mine does..

Case fan <-- cooler pull fan <-- cooler <-- Push fan..

My question is actually related to the pull fan of the cooler, if that fan is not the same the same as the case fan (lower CFM), will that mean that hot air will be trapped inside the case?

I'm thinking no because the top case fan and the side case fans will get rid of whatever hot air the back fan was not able to get rid of..

Makes sense?


----------



## ehume

Sure, it makes a lot of sense. That's why I cut my back grill off and don't have a fan there: few case exhaust fans can keep up with a good pull fan.

Also, I discovered something cool: if you leave the back gate open, the pull fan will entrain case air so you don't need a case exhaust fan. Check out this thread.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

wow ehume, you threads continue to impress me.
I dont wanna cut into my case though.. I love it :/
However, I will change my back case fan to a Yateloon. That should improve things abit. Might change the 2x CM R4s on the side panel to YT as well

Something I noticed but couldnt understand before. Now that I've seen your thread I'm sure it has to do with negative and positive pressure but I still need help understanding it.
I noticed that I get lower temps if I had the side panel off, and since the side panel is off, then its even better than having it on with the the 2x 120mm CM R4s .. what does this mean?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever** 
wow ehume, you threads continue to impress me.
I dont wanna cut into my case though.. I love it :/
However, I will change my back case fan to a Yateloon. That should improve things abit. Might change the 2x CM R4s on the side panel to YT as well

Something I noticed but couldnt understand before. Now that I've seen your thread I'm sure it has to do with negative and positive pressure but I still need help understanding it.
I noticed that I get lower temps if I had the side panel off, and since the side panel is off, then its even better than having it on with the the 2x 120mm CM R4s .. what does this mean?

The coolest air your computer can get is the ambient atmosphere. Open a whole sidewall and what do you get? Copious amounts of air.

I built my first rig - Meimei - in a hurry to replace a dead Dell. After I built Hotrod, I revisited Meimei. Experimenting with it led me to understand that putting an intake fan in it did nothing but add noise. I learned that putting an exhaust fan in the back made the thing a dust collector. So I cut out the rear grill. There are three fans in the case: the GPU cooling fan, the psu cooling fan (the noisest fan in the rig) and the cpu cooling fan - one very quiet San Ace 9S1212L401 on a Megahalems. I leave the PCI slot covers off, so air gets in there and to a lesser extent though the highly restrictive side grills. No case fans, but air goes out the back, driven by that quiet San Ace, pushing through the Megahalems.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

well even though my country is one of the hottest in the world (around 45-50c), but the aircondions that we use are really powerful. So it's usually cold in overall at home (and my room is the coldest as I NEVER close the AC) .. So I'm not really worried about ambients..

One thing you said in the second paragraph interested me. So you are saying that even an intake fan doesnt really do anything (besides adding noise as you said? lol)

Man, dont tempt me into cutting into my case.. :/

Edit: Quick question, why did you use the A14 with your tests, and not the A15?


----------



## ehume

I tested AP-14's and AP-15's. I went with AP-14's because they were all I needed and they were quieter - air noise only. The P14 I mention in all the testing is the 140mm fan that comes with the heatsink. It can get confusing.

The Antek NSK 4480II is designed so that there is room only for an 80mm fan in the front. Even then, if it pulls much air in, you here a hissing noise from the slots behind the front plate - the only way air can come in the front. The case just wasn't designed for airflow. Of course, I knew nothing about such things when I bought it. I was in a hurry and had time only to research cpu's and mb's. I'd never buy this case again, but it's good enough for the setup I have in it now.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ehume* 
I tested AP-14's and AP-15's. I went with AP-14's because they were all I needed and they were quieter - air noise only. The P14 I mention in all the testing is the 140mm fan that comes with the heatsink. It can get confusing.

So there is no difference in cooling between A14 and A15, and noticable increase in noice?

oh and yes I know the P14, that part didnt confuse me lol

Thanks man


----------



## ehume

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever** 
So there is no difference in cooling between A14 and A15, and noticable increase in noice?

oh and yes I know the P14, that part didnt confuse me lol

Thanks man

I assume you mean AP-14 and AP-15. There is a difference in cooling. With a P14 and 2 AP-15's I had 50c over ambient the last time I compared them on the same day. But the SPL was 30.5 dBA and there was a tiny bit of moan. With a P14 and two AP-14's, I had 52c over ambient, an SPL of 27.5 dBA, and very little moan. This comparison had the fans on Molex. In the case and on the CPU fan header I get zero moan, just air noise, very easy to listen to . . . a half meter from my head.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

Dammit, no idea why I said "A" and not "AP", but yeah that's what I meant.
so are you saying that it matters where the fans are plugged in?
iirc, I have one fan connected to the CPU fan header, the rest connected directly to the PSU rail (my PSU has 3 pin and molex support, so I never bothered with molex and connected it staight ahead to 3pin)

Which also raises another question (a noobish one probably), whats the difference between having a fan plugged in using a 3pin connector, and a molex connector?


----------



## ehume

On my Gigabyte boards the rpm's are always slightly less when the fans are plugged in to the mb than when they get their power from Molex. The benefit of plugging into the mb is that the fan speed can be controlled by the mb.

Other than that, power is power.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

and no difference between molex and 3pin connectors?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever** 
and no difference between molex and 3pin connectors?

I've never noticed any. The fact that you have some make that Corsair worth investigating. I wonder if the HX have the same sockets?


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

I think the HX has less connectors. I read it somewhere before but I cant remember where.

I even think there is a difference between the 850TX and 950TX, but I'm not sure about this one.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Madridi4ever** 
I think the HX has less connectors. I read it somewhere before but I cant remember where.

I even think there is a difference between the 850TX and 950TX, but I'm not sure about this one.

HX850 has 12 SATA, 12 Molex, & 6 PCIe vs the TX's 8, 8, & 4.

Also the TX850 is pretty much crap on todays standards. It's based on the CWT PSH platform. Which isn't really good for 850W.

The TX950 is CWT DSG like the HX850 & HX750. Just the bronze level. Not the Silver level efficiency. But that's not really much of a difference.


----------



## *Madridi4ever*

850TX:
ATX 24 pin & 20 pin compatible x1
EPS/ATX12V 8-4 pin x1
PCI-E 8 pin x4
SATA x8
4 pin Peripheral x8
Floppy x2

850HX:
ATX 24 pin & 20 pin compatible x1
EPS/ATX12V 8-4 pin x1
PCI-E 6+2 pin x6
SATA x12
4 pin Peripheral x12
Floppy x2

----------

Yep seems you are right. I wonder if thats all the cables though. In fact, they dont have the 3 pin listed (My 850TX has it). I'm assuming they counted it as a 4 pin peripheral..


----------



## Tator Tot

Yeah. They are.


----------



## RawrReptar

So i have the Antec 300 and a 212+ as my cpu cooler. I been wondering about this for a while. Is it better to have an push fan on the heatsink? Or the top 140mm fan is pretty close to the heatsink to begin with would an added fan lessen the heat being pulled off that heatsink? The fan i did have attached to it was a weaker fan.


----------



## Faraz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RawrReptar*


So i have the Antec 300 and a 212+ as my cpu cooler. I been wondering about this for a while. Is it better to have an push fan on the heatsink? Or the top 140mm fan is pretty close to the heatsink to begin with would an added fan lessen the heat being pulled off that heatsink? The fan i did have attached to it was a weaker fan.


The top fan wouldn't cool the heatsink as much as a push fan together with the stock back fan of the case would. I'd actually do a push-pull with two good fans instead of just push.


----------



## Agenesis

Where can I find some cheap shipping on fans? I've been trying to find some yate loons but the shipping ends up costing half to double of what my fans cost together, which I find somewhat ridiculous.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Agenesis*


Where can I find some cheap shipping on fans? I've been trying to find some yate loons but the shipping ends up costing half to double of what my fans cost together, which I find somewhat ridiculous.


what country do you live in?


----------



## Agenesis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


what country do you live in?


United States


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Agenesis*


United States










Then order from Danger Den, Petra's Tech Shop, or Side-Winders

They all have high quality Yates.

Right now on the official "Don't buy" list; is Performance-PC's, Jab-Tech, & FrozenCPU. The Yate's that they carry are lower quality Yates that just do not perform. 
Other products from those sites are fine. It's just the Yate's that are not good. 
From other users's photo's; SVC Yate's are also on the list.


----------



## Agenesis

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Then order from Danger Den, Petra's Tech Shop, or Side-Winders

They all have high quality Yates.

Right now on the official "Don't buy" list; is Performance-PC's, Jab-Tech, & FrozenCPU. The Yate's that they carry are lower quality Yates that just do not perform.
Other products from those sites are fine. It's just the Yate's that are not good.
From other users's photo's; SVC Yate's are also on the list.

Thanks, I guess I'm going to order these

How long are the cables for the yate loons? I have four free fan headers and would like to attach two of them to each, so if they're long I'd like to buy four y splitters and call it a day...If they're short then I would have to buy some three pin extension cables along with y splitters... or would the molex method work better in this situation?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Agenesis* 
Thanks, I guess I'm going to order these

How long are the cables for the yate loons? I have four free fan headers and would like to attach two of them to each, so if they're long I'd like to buy four y splitters and call it a day...If they're short then I would have to buy some three pin extension cables along with y splitters... or would the molex method work better in this situation?









Just buy extensions with them.

Yate's cable lengths on my Petra's & Danger Den's are kinda short. Like 6"


----------



## Skaterboydale

How do you think this airflow will work out in my case?


----------



## godofdeath

does anyone know where to get another stock fan that comes with the xigmatek balder?
i want the same thing so i can do push pull with those


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skaterboydale* 









How do you think this airflow will work out in my case?

That'll work well. But you should add a fan to cool your HDD's as well.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
does anyone know where to get another stock fan that comes with the xigmatek balder?
i want the same thing so i can do push pull with those

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835233045


----------



## PapaSmurf

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


That'll work well. But you should add a fan to cool your HDD's as well.


Definitely. Helps them perform at their best and last longer.


----------



## warbird

Hey guys,

Im running my i7 920 at 3.8 Ghz @ 1.25 Vcore + Scythe Mugen 2 (rev. B) + Arctic Silver Ceramique (maybe I should change it for silver? I dunno).

Ambient room temp is 30C*. My cores idle temp are 50/49/50/49, load temps with Prime95 are ~75C*. Is that okay?

Maybe thats because of my thermal grease, because I have never used ceramique before.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *warbird* 
Hey guys,

Im running my i7 920 at 3.8 Ghz @ 1.25 Vcore + Scythe Mugen 2 (rev. B) + Arctic Silver Ceramique (maybe I should change it for silver? I dunno).

Ambient room temp is 30C*. My cores idle temp are 50/49/50/49, load temps with Prime95 are ~75C*. Is that okay?

Maybe thats because of my thermal grease, because I have never used ceramique before.

Thermal grease would change your temps by a max of 5-7c. It is either the way you applied it (check guide) or its just not sitting right. Either way I would attempt a reseat of the Mugen and see if you can get some better results.


----------



## warbird

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Thermal grease would change your temps by a max of 5-7c. It is either the way you applied it (check guide) or its just not sitting right. Either way I would attempt a reseat of the Mugen and see if you can get some better results.


I have checked it and thermal grease was nice and thin all around the processor. I have tried to change fans position and now I have 65-70C* load temps in Prime95

I think I need to ger a pair of Scythe Ultra Kaze 3000 RPM fans =)


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *warbird*


I have checked it and thermal grease was nice and thin all around the processor. I have tried to change fans position and now I have 65-70C* load temps in Prime95

I think I need to ger a pair of Scythe Ultra Kaze 3000 RPM fans =)


What Fan(s) are you using on the Mugen 2?

Also I would invest in some new Thermal Paste. Arctic Silver Ceramique is only good for Sub-Zero cooling.

Noctua NT-H1
OCZ Freeze Extreme
OCZ Freeze
IC Diamond 7 or 24
Arctic Cooling MX-4
Arctic Cooling MX-3
Arctic Cooling MX-2
ShinEtsu X23
Arctic Silver Matrix II

Those are all my suggestions.

Just grab which ever is the cheapest.


----------



## warbird

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


What Fan(s) are you using on the Mugen 2?

Also I would invest in some new Thermal Paste. Arctic Silver Ceramique is only good for Sub-Zero cooling.

Noctua NT-H1
OCZ Freeze Extreme
OCZ Freeze
IC Diamond 7 or 24
Arctic Cooling MX-4
Arctic Cooling MX-3
Arctic Cooling MX-2
ShinEtsu X23
Arctic Silver Matrix II

Those are all my suggestions.

Just grab which ever is the cheapest.


Stock Mugen 2 fan from the package.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *warbird*


I have checked it and thermal grease was nice and thin all around the processor. I have tried to change fans position and now I have 65-70C* load temps in Prime95

I think I need to ger a pair of Scythe Ultra Kaze 3000 RPM fans =)










ugh...please don't. Read my fan section please. UKs are great if you are half deaf and don't mind low quality but there are so much better options.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *warbird*


Stock Mugen 2 fan from the package.


The stock fan is terrible for the Mugen 2. They would have so much better of a product if they would have just put one of their S-flex fans on it. Anyway...yes, new TIM and new fan(s) will help you a ton in this case.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *warbird* 
Stock Mugen 2 fan from the package.

That's a terrible fan.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 







ugh...please don't. Read my fan section please. UKs are great if you are half deaf and don't mind low quality but there are so much better options.

Like Shadow said, read his section.

Or if you're in the US get 2 Thermalright FDB-2000's best value out there.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


That's a terrible fan.

Like Shadow said, read his section.

Or if you're in the US get 2 Thermalright FDB-2000's best value out there.


Yea...I really need to get to updating this thing. I seriously have so much going on I can't get to it....if you want to do some edits and if you can by all means Tator. 140mm section, adding some fans and a low profile CPU Cooler section....those were the things on my list. If not....well I will get to it when I have more then 10 minutes to pop in here and there.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


Yea...I really need to get to updating this thing. I seriously have so much going on I can't get to it....if you want to do some edits and if you can by all means Tator. 140mm section, adding some fans and a low profile CPU Cooler section....those were the things on my list. If not....well I will get to it when I have more then 10 minutes to pop in here and there.


I can't edit it, unless I was the air cooling editor.

Or I can PM you info to add in though if that's good with you?


----------



## Jest

Guys, I need a quick answer but search hasn't really turned anything up. How do I know whether a fan is going to pull air or push air?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jest*


Guys, I need a quick answer but search hasn't really turned anything up. How do I know whether a fan is going to pull air or push air?


It will do either one depending on which way you mount it; air will come out of the side with the hub sticker.


----------



## Faraz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jest*


Guys, I need a quick answer but search hasn't really turned anything up. How do I know whether a fan is going to pull air or push air?


Air will be pulled in from the side where the fan blades are convex (curving out) and pushed out the side where they're concave (curving in).

For example, the side you see here will be pulling air.


----------



## PapaSmurf

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


It will do either one depending on which way you mount it; air will come out of the side with the hub sticker.










Not always. Some fans have stickers on both sides of the hub and some have them on intake side. There are two foolproof ways to tell. One is to look if there is an arrow pointing in one direction that indicates the airflow. The other is look at the fan blades. The side of the fan blades that is convex will be the output side and the concave side of the blades will be the inlet side.

Edit: Beat me too it. Gotta learn to type faster.


----------



## ehume

Well, you can do the psu paperclip mod, or buy one of these. Then you can plug your fan in and see for yourself which way the wind blows.

But really: unless you have an Arctic Cooling Cage fan, the air exits over the struts.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PapaSmurf*


Not always. Some fans have stickers on both sides of the hub and some have them on intake side.


Well, one thing that's consistent is that on fans with stickers on both sides, the sticker with the fan specs on it is the outlet end. Plus the intake side of the hub tends to be a bit fatter than the outlet end. Then there's the mentioned blade shape stuff.


----------



## PapaSmurf

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Well, one thing that's consistent is that on fans with stickers on both sides, the sticker with the fan specs on it is the outlet end.


Nope. That doesn't always work either. I have a number of fans with IDENTICAL stickers on both sides of the hub. Neither have anything but the company name with no specs.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PapaSmurf*


Nope. That doesn't always work either. I have a number of fans with IDENTICAL stickers on both sides of the hub. Neither have anything but the company name with no specs.


Weird.







I guess the fan blades are the only sure way to tell anymore.


----------



## PapaSmurf

That and the arrow if it has one.


----------



## warbird

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


That's a terrible fan.

Like Shadow said, read his section.

Or if you're in the US get 2 Thermalright FDB-2000's best value out there.


Im not from US. Can you recomend something else besides that fan?

Scythe S-Flex (G) 2000 RPM is good ?


----------



## Tator Tot

The S-Flex series & Thermalright FDB series are the same (Sony FDB fans.)

S-Flex G's are only 1900 RPM I think. But yes a great choice


----------



## ehume

Air direction: Not labels. Struts.

Other than the AC cage fans, are any of you aware of any exceptions?


----------



## Anton338

WOW! You pretty much covered everything possible!
Very nice! +rep!

Thanks a bunch everyone!

I'm leaning towards either Thermalright Venomous X or Megahalem

BTW SHADOWCLOCK!
your links for CM Hyper 212+ and Xigmatek Balder on your first post are broken! just fyi

THANKS AGAIN for the amazing information!


----------



## PapaSmurf

If you go with the Ven X don't do like a lot of people do and crank down the adjuster too tight. The tighter you crank it down the higher the temps.


----------



## agent__551

Can anyone tell me the diffrence between kama flix and s-fllex
and help me out here
\\http://www.overclock.net/air-cooling...osing-fan.html


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *agent__551*


Can anyone tell me the diffrence between kama flix and s-fllex
and help me out here
\\http://www.overclock.net/air-cooling...osing-fan.html


Source
The differences lies in the detail. So the S-Flex has a rotor suction magnet. There's an extra magnet that keeps the rotor in place. The IC used for the control of the fan is also a low noise IC. Thats something the Kama Flex doesnt have.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *agent__551* 
Can anyone tell me the diffrence between kama flix and s-fllex
and help me out here
\\http://www.overclock.net/air-cooling...osing-fan.html

Performance wise; they're the same. S-Flex undervolt a bit better, but that's the only real difference you'll see.

Also the S-Flex is rated at 25*C MTBF, but the Kama Flex is rated at 30*C

Not that it makes much of a difference.


----------



## agent__551

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 
Source
The differences lies in the detail. So the S-Flex has a rotor suction magnet. There's an extra magnet that keeps the rotor in place. The IC used for the control of the fan is also a low noise IC. Thats something the Kama Flex doesnt have.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Performance wise; they're the same. S-Flex undervolt a bit better, but that's the only real difference you'll see.

Also the S-Flex is rated at 25*C MTBF, but the Kama Flex is rated at 30*C

Not that it makes much of a difference.

will it perform the same regarding alignment
i plan using it on a rad later by xmas, but for now on my hyper 212+ and as case fan
or should i get the cheaper slip stream as case fans?

thx both and +rep


----------



## Tator Tot

Yeah it's an SFDB bearing. Doesn't matter the positioning.


----------



## agent__551

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Yeah it's an SFDB bearing. Doesn't matter the positioning.

what about a case fan?
and why cant i give u rep?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *agent__551* 
what about a case fan?
and why cant i give u rep?

I've answered the rep question to many time.
But as OCN Staff we forgo Rep in turn for a pretty badge and the ability to manage our respective sections in different way. Mod's handle the users, Editors handle the content.









But as a case fan it'll work great. And it doesn't matter the positioning.


----------



## Beardface

Hey everyone. Would a Noctua U9B SE2 provide enough cooling for my i7 930 at 3.8-4ish GHz? My case is an NZXT Hades. It has a fan on the side that limits the height of a cpu cooler i can use. Thanks!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Beardface*


Hey everyone. Would a Noctua U9B SE2 provide enough cooling for my i7 930 at 3.8-4ish GHz? My case is an NZXT Hades. It has a fan on the side that limits the height of a cpu cooler i can use. Thanks!


It's not going to do a good job.

You should just take the side fan off the case and go for a larger heatsink.


----------



## Shadowclock

Thanks to Tator Tot for the latest addition: Low Profile Coolers. (End of Post 1)

I will be adding more specific info for them like a chart similar to the other CPU Coolers, but for now that information will have to suffice.


----------



## maxextz

subbed


----------



## Shadowclock

Latest update:

Changed Tator Tots review on Yates from different suppliers. Amazing new write up he did HERE if you want to check it out.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

About time you came by again.


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
About time you came by again.









I know right....if anyone has any other updates I am completely available to make them. I just been all over the place besides Air Cooling lately...trying to spread my wings...busy with life in general though so I am still not spending more then 5 minutes in any particular area









Glad to see some well deserved people getting some moderator status


----------



## Stash9876

So I just got a couple of Yate Loons from Petra's, but soon after I noticed the holes on the fan don't appear to be threaded so I can't really get the mounting screws that came with them in. Is this normal? How am I supposed to mount these suckers on my case?


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Stash9876* 
So I just got a couple of Yate Loons from Petra's, but soon after I noticed the holes on the fan don't appear to be threaded so I can't really get the mounting screws that came with them in. Is this normal? How am I supposed to mount these suckers on my case?

Their never threaded, just start screwing them in, they thread themselves. It is very normal, sometimes takes a little force.


----------



## PapaSmurf

You have to work at it a bit. Use a GOOD #2 Phillips Screwdriver that doesn't have a worn out tip and slowly screw them in. I've never had a problem doing it as long as I've followed those guidelines.


----------



## Stash9876

Ok, cool. I didn't want to just force it without checking first. Thanks guys.


----------



## ehume

If you have a number of fan screws, look carefully at them. Some have a cutting edge that really helps them self-thread. That's why they are called self-threading screws. Self-threading screws have a little groove cut into the screw. One side is a blade . . .

If you have a choice, use the self-threading screws.


----------



## PapaSmurf

These are self threading (also called self tapping or thread cutting) fan screws. You can just make out the groove in them that makes them self tapping/threading or thread cutting.
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/svcompucycle_2125_81637605

These are not self threading. Notice the lack of groove. They have the same thread pattern as the above but are much more difficult to use if the threads are not already in the fan holes. Once the holes have been threaded by using the above self tapping screws these will work just fine.
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/svcompucycle_2125_130574007


----------



## clark_b

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowclock* 


Thermalright Venomous X - Already Lapped/shiny base, tested/benched to be the newest top dog, pressure mod is included. RAM height compatibility list(Thanks JeevusCompact). Rampage II Extreme motherboard shorting issue with VenX (Thanks Juravieal)

_*NOTE:* Ven-X comes in 2 other "flavors". A black model and RT which comes with a fan._

you might want to add a note regarding the Rampage II Extreme issue. I just installed my Ven-X RT and the studs mentioned as the culprits in _Juravieal_'s post have semi-transparent silicone or rubber washers stuck to the bottom of them.
so either Thermalright revised the design or his were just missing. I'd suggest ppl double-check theirs JIC


----------



## Shadowclock

Since this thread was recently moved back in its own sticky instead of being "archived" in the guide thread I will be making some serious updates very soon. Keep your eyes peeled in the coming weeks.

Thanks all.


----------



## Wbroach23

i just came from the yate loon website it says they have soem 120mm fans high permormance rated 129.5CFM part number is D12SH-48K and D12BH-48K


----------



## Wbroach23

and one more thing im trying to figure out if high static pressure or high CFM aparently one trumps the other for some reason help me please looking for exhaust fan for my HAF-X i think the stock 140 is inadequate


----------



## kevindd992002

what's the best heatsink plus fan combo nowadays?


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wbroach23*


and one more thing im trying to figure out if high static pressure or high CFM aparently one trumps the other for some reason help me please looking for exhaust fan for my HAF-X i think the stock 140 is inadequate


High static pressure fans are used on heatsinks and radiators. High CFM fans are better for everything else such as open air or the small amount of resistance that the exhaust area of cases have via the mesh.

Specifically speaking in regards to your question about an exhaust fan, a high CFM fan would be best if you are looking at exhausting as much hot air as possible from your rig.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*


what's the best heatsink plus fan combo nowadays?


Short Answer: Not to sure.

TLDR version: I have been trying to catch up on my research, build my HTPC, take care of a PC for my sister and continue my full time job, taking care of the wife.

Suffice to say I am still wanting to put a lot more into this guide but haven't had the chance for more then a 3 -5 min drop in from time to time during the day.


----------



## Wbroach23

the ones that come with my HS, different situation now HS fans lol. Have a static pressure of 4.2mmH2O i found some loud beasts that ide still not be able to here most likely because of my G35, that are 12.55mmH2O static pressure would it be worth it you think to get some or would the cooling differance not be that noticeable?


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wbroach23;12780418*
> the ones that come with my HS, different situation now HS fans lol. Have a static pressure of 4.2mmH2O i found some loud beasts that ide still not be able to here most likely because of my G35, that are 12.55mmH2O static pressure would it be worth it you think to get some or would the cooling differance not be that noticeable?


I cannot tell exactly what it is your asking anymore. I am guessing English is not your first language.

What I gathered from your first post is that this was for the exhaust for your case so the static pressure won't matter much. However, if you want an all around better fan then by all means go for the 12.55mmH2O fan. To answer your question on the difference I cannot tell you because the CFM is more important in regards to exhaust.

Do you have links to the 2 fans you are questioning? And can you confirm that you are indeed looking for an exhaust fan for your case?


----------



## Wbroach23

lol oh no bad english is my first language ive lived in Oklahoma my whole life lol i switched topics sorry i processed and stored your info for high CFM for exhaust fans in the back of my brain somwherelol and now im asking about Heatsink fans sorry should have been more clear about that i ordered the thermaltake frio wednsday it comes with two 101.5CFM fans with an air static pressure rating of 4.2mmH2O i found a 150CFM Delta which is probably as loud as my car at idle lol that has a air static pressure rating of 12.55mmH2O which is three times more than the included fans so i guess im asking if higher static pressure is good for my cooler and the included fans do an awesome job at cooling would fans with three times the static pressure give considerably lower temps or not really so dont spend 40 bucks on two fans lol


----------



## Wbroach23

sorry for the lack of punctuation i disliked english class severely and retained none of it lol


----------



## PapaSmurf

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wbroach23*


sorry for the lack of punctuation i disliked english class severely and retained none of it lol


If you don't respect and value the people's time and knowledge enough to put a minimal amount of effort into using proper grammar (punctuation, capitalization, spelling, etc.) then you shouldn't expect them to waste time trying to decipher your coded messages. It's rude, immature, and unacceptable behaviour, plus it's a violation of the Terms Of Service that you agreed to when you signed up to OCN. While everyone makes mistakes now and again that are easily and willingly overlooked there are limits.

Quote:



You are EXPECTED to:

* Edit your posts for spelling and grammar. Overclock.net's usability depends on this.
o Use capitalization
o No excessive Internet jargon
o Use proper spelling, grammar and punctuation


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wbroach23;12778267*
> i just came from the yate loon website it says they have soem 120mm fans high permormance rated 129.5CFM part number is D12SH-48K and D12BH-48K


The number following the hyphen is the Voltage of the fan. Those are 48-Volt fans. The K may represent a thicker fan, something like a 38mm.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;12784712*
> The number following the hyphen is the Voltage of the fan. Those are 48-Volt fans. The K may represent a thicker fan, something like a 38mm.


Yeah, K's are 32mm thick.


----------



## Wbroach23

Cool!! got my cooler and memory, there amazing 4.14ghz when the Arctic Silver cures alittle more i'll try for higher.


----------



## alpsie

I have a small question, IÂ´m currently using a hyper 212+ with push-pull with two of the stock fans.
what kind of temp decrease should I expect if I go for a Noctua NH-D14 or Cogage Arrow with two SANYO DENKI 120mm x 38mm


----------



## Kaosuonline

Great article!


----------



## PapaSmurf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alpsie;13034369*
> I have a small question, I´m currently using a hyper 212+ with push-pull with two of the stock fans.
> what kind of temp decrease should I expect if I go for a Noctua NH-D14 or Cogage Arrow with two SANYO DENKI 120mm x 38mm


Here is a direct comparison of the 212+ to an NH-D14. It's a different CPU, but it should give you some idea to start with.

Depending on which San Ace 120x38's you use you could more than likely knock 2 to 4C off the temps of the pair of BladeMasters you now have on that 212+, but it would be a LOT louder.


----------



## ehume

A professional review (Vortez.net) of a number of heatsinks, including the SA, the D14 and the 212+, is here. If you use the 9G1212H1011 San Ace, expect another 3-4c cooling.


----------



## PapaSmurf

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ehume*


A professional review (Vortez.net) of a number of heatsinks, including the SA, the D14 and the 212+, is here. If you use the 9G1212H1011 San Ace, expect another 3-4c cooling.


Nice link. I'll have to share that in the Hyper 212+ Club and put it in the FAQ.







:


----------



## abu46

i have a cooler master elite 430 cabby with 2x120mm fans (1 as intake upfront and the other as exhaust on the bank)

now i have an additional 80mm fan with me which i want to put on the top as an addl. exhaust, but the problem is that the top mesh dosent have holes drilled for 80mm fan.
i was able to mount it somehow as two out of four holes matched, but the problem is when the fan spins it vibrates the cabby and makes noise, now i tried to but some packaging material under the other two holes (which didnt match). it has reduced vibration and noise but not completely

any advice on how to eliminate the vibes completely


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *abu46;13278313*
> i have a cooler master elite 430 cabby with 2x120mm fans (1 as intake upfront and the other as exhaust on the bank)
> 
> now i have an additional 80mm fan with me which i want to put on the top as an addl. exhaust, but the problem is that the top mesh dosent have holes drilled for 80mm fan.
> i was able to mount it somehow as two out of four holes matched, but the problem is when the fan spins it vibrates the cabby and makes noise, now i tried to but some packaging material under the other two holes (which didnt match). it has reduced vibration and noise but not completely
> 
> any advice on how to eliminate the vibes completely


80mm fans: the quiet ones don't push much air. The ones that push air are loud.

That's why the standard fan is 120mm. That's why they sell 140mm, 200mm and 230mm fans: larger diameter fans can push more air for a given rpm, and are hence quieter.


----------



## mogg

didn't see this place at first, also the question might have already been asked, but seeing as how many pages there are...
any ways, to the point...
4 pin Molex case fans, they be ok w/ a fan controller?
thanks in advance


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mogg*


didn't see this place at first, also the question might have already been asked, but seeing as how many pages there are...
any ways, to the point...
4 pin Molex case fans, they be ok w/ a fan controller?
thanks in advance










Depends on what controller you want to get.







More than likely you'll need adapters to 3-pin. Check out the pics of this controller for example.


----------



## mogg

solsamurai, thanks for the reply.
Type of controller I am thinking about is either an NZXT Sentry 2 or NZXT SENTRY LX, though, am sure I read something about battery in one of those








just did a little research on site you linked me to (while making this reply, lol), about the above two I mentioned, would seem this has made my mind up between the two, and will be the NZXT Sentry 2, that I will most likely go for.
Again, my thanks for the info.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mogg*


solsamurai, thanks for the reply.
Type of controller I am thinking about is either an NZXT Sentry 2 or NZXT SENTRY LX, though, am sure I read something about battery in one of those








just did a little research on site you linked me to (while making this reply, lol), about the above two I mentioned, would seem this has made my mind up between the two, and will be the NZXT Sentry 2, that I will most likely go for.
Again, my thanks for the info.


Glad I could help! Just be sure it has enough watts per channel for the fans you're going to control. Especially if you plan on controlling more than one fan per channel.







If not you should be good!


----------



## abu46

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;13278587*
> 80mm fans: the quiet ones don't push much air. The ones that push air are loud.
> 
> That's why the standard fan is 120mm. That's why they sell 140mm, 200mm and 230mm fans: larger diameter fans can push more air for a given rpm, and are hence quieter.


totally agree with you

but the thing is that i have an spare 80mm fan with me which i want to put to good use as the summers are here and even after bringing my cpu to stock freq. my temps during crysis2 reach 64 core (ambient 35C)

can you tell if having a 120mm fan at the back or at the top is better
i am asking this as the cabby as proper holes for 80mm fan at the back, so i can shift the 80mm at back and 120mm at top


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *abu46*


totally agree with you

but the thing is that i have an spare 80mm fan with me which i want to put to good use as the summers are here and even after bringing my cpu to stock freq. my temps during crysis2 reach 64 core (ambient 35C)

can you tell if having a 120mm fan at the back or at the top is better
i am asking this as the cabby as proper holes for 80mm fan at the back, so i can shift the 80mm at back and 120mm at top


Click on my profile. My airflow setup is there. You can use a simplified version of that.


----------



## For Victory

I ordered two Blade Master fans for my cpu cooler as per ehume's recommendation in another thread. My motherboard only has one cpu fan header, so I am wondering if I can connect the two blade masters to the one header with a Y cable, or is that unsafe? The motherboard is an MSI Big Bang Xpower. I also have a Cooler Master HAF 932 and need a fan for the bottom 120mm spot for intake. Would something like a Silverstone AP 121 fit the bill? Thanks.


----------



## Tator Tot

Blade Master's are fine for the BigBang XPower, they shouldn't go over the amperage limit of the CPU Fan Header.

I think the BBXP has 2 though?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *For Victory;13297934*
> I ordered two Blade Master fans for my cpu cooler as per ehume's recommendation in another thread. My motherboard only has one cpu fan header, so I am wondering if I can connect the two blade masters to the one header with a Y cable, or is that unsafe? The motherboard is an MSI Big Bang Xpower. I also have a Cooler Master HAF 932 and need a fan for the bottom 120mm spot for intake. Would something like a Silverstone AP 121 fit the bill? Thanks.


If you don't have one, you need a PWM Y-cable. Here is an excellent one - the kind I use - for $3, including shipping.


----------



## PapaSmurf

That will be fine. One like these would work nicely, especially if you are from the USA to get the free shipping.

http://www.svc.com/fc444pwm-12.html Unsleeved $2.49 shiipped

http://www.svc.com/fc444pwm-12bks.html Black Sleeve $2.99 shipped

You might want to clip the yellow wire on one of the leads though otherwise the motherboards sensors will show the combined rpm's of the two fans instead of just the one.


----------



## mogg

hi all, was wondering if it has been tested before or not, if it has, then you can point me in the right direction for the results, if not, then perhaps some one can give it a go, and put results up








Was wondering about the positive/negative thing(forget the term now, sorry) of fans, you know the one where more air in than out, and more air out than in, and also the neutral one too, those i understand and am fine with, what i was thinking about, was this(and only hypothetically speaking) 4 fans in 4 fans out, (neutral), cold in, hot out... hot air rises, out fans at or near top, right? and cold air, in fans, in/near bottom...
so if fans are higher up, the air has already done most of the work to get there, and all the fans need to do, is push it out of the case, inside is warm, so need to get cold air in...
could and would it be beneficial to say, keep same amount of fans, and speed up intake, and slow down outtake, just an idea, as am new to this kind of thing, and like to ask questions, and find out all i can lol
your opinions/tests, thoughts/ideas, be greatly appreciated...
sorry for the rambling,
and thanks


----------



## For Victory

While I'm at this operation, are there any other ways the default HAF 932 can be improved? Am I better off with the top 200mm fan or 3 x 120mm?


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mogg;13303067*
> hi all, was wondering if it has been tested before or not, if it has, then you can point me in the right direction for the results, if not, then perhaps some one can give it a go, and put results up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was wondering about the positive/negative thing(forget the term now, sorry) of fans, you know the one where more air in than out, and more air out than in, and also the neutral one too, those i understand and am fine with, what i was thinking about, was this(and only hypothetically speaking) 4 fans in 4 fans out, (neutral), cold in, hot out... hot air rises, out fans at or near top, right? and cold air, in fans, in/near bottom...
> so if fans are higher up, the air has already done most of the work to get there, and all the fans need to do, is push it out of the case, inside is warm, so need to get cold air in...
> could and would it be beneficial to say, keep same amount of fans, and speed up intake, and slow down outtake, just an idea, as am new to this kind of thing, and like to ask questions, and find out all i can lol
> your opinions/tests, thoughts/ideas, be greatly appreciated...
> sorry for the rambling,
> and thanks


Hey mogg! Beneficial in what sense? If you slow down the outake you would most likely begin to develop a positive pressure case so the benfits of a positive pressure case would begin to show up. Simple as that. There are different benefits to different types of pressure systems so it depends on what benefits your specifically looking for.

Hope that was of some help, feel free to modify your question so I can try to answer more precisely.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *For Victory;13307685*
> While I'm at this operation, are there any other ways the default HAF 932 can be improved? Am I better off with the top 200mm fan or 3 x 120mm?


You are going to get more CFM from 3x120mm for sure. Better off? You might see 1-2c better case temps...there really is no way to tell exactly without trying your exact setup.

Another way you could go is to check the HAF club and ask the question there. I personally prefer the 200mm just because it is nice and quiet.

Thanks to all those still supporting the Air Cooling community in this thread for me. I swear one of these days I am going to get back in here and clean this thing up some....


----------



## PapaSmurf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mogg;13303067*
> hot air rises, out fans at or near top, right? and cold air, in fans, in/near bottom...


First thing you have to learn is that when dealing with ACTIVELY cooled computer cases the whole "hot air rising" principal becomes moot. In older cases without fans it had some impact, but one you throw a couple of fans into a case they completely over ride the entire "hot air rising" effect to the point it becomes a complete non-factor. With that in mind it isn't worth taking it into consideration at all. Just look at flow patterns to allow the air to move direct paths from one side to another in as straight of a direction as possible. The REAL reason why top blow hole fans are effective is NOT because of the natural hot air rising effect, but because they are at the opposite end from the intakes and they have an unobstructed path to the outside allowing free flowing air. In cases with a top mounted psu it was quite common to find a dead air zone near the top of the case between the psu and the optical drives that were heated air would just swirl around trapping heat. A blowhole there evacuated it. This was especially true with older cases that only had a two 80mm fans (1 intake and 1 exhaust) which didn't allow much air movement. People who didn't understand the actual reasons why the blow hole was effective made the incorrect assumption that it was the natural hot air rising effect that caused it.

As far as cooling difference between negative and positive air pressure unless you go to too large of an extreme one way or the other the difference is normally only 1 or 2C as long as the air flows in an orderly fashion past all of the components that need cooling. THAT is the important part. You can have a ton of airflow, but if it doesn't flow past the hot components or you have opposing fans causing dead air hot spots it won't cool as well as having less airflow that is directed towards and past the components that need to be cooled and out the opposite side. That's why side panel fans will quite often raise tempos instead of lowering them as all too often all they do is disrupt the air flow patterns creating those dead air zones that need to be avoided.

It's all about balance. You have to be careful going too high in either direction as that will disrupt the airflow patterns rendering them less effective.


----------



## ehume

Yes. It's all about balance. And one way to achieve balance is to remove any obstructions to outflow and just let the air flow out. Open outlets free you from the need for exhaust fans, which reduces your noise burden.

I was exploring the effects of an open space in lieu of an exhaust fan when I discovered that my cpu pull fan could act as my case exhaust. I was able to generate some negative pressure when I obstructed the intakes, but the whole effect was one of flow rather than static pressure, positive or negative.

So even though my cases now have no fans on them that are assigned to exhaust the case, they have active case exhaust via the cpu heatsinks.


----------



## abu46

i have 2x120mm & 1x80mm fan to work with in my 430 elite

presently i have a 120mm fan upfront as intake, another 120mm at back as exhaust and an 80mm on top as intake

i am considering to move the front 120mm to the side as intake as the air flow path from front is a bit obstructed, will it have negative affect on hdd cooling ?

should i mount the 120mm side closer to the cpu or gpu?


----------



## PapaSmurf

Bad idea. You can add an additional fan to the side panel if you want, but you absolutely need that front fan if you have hard drives in the 3.5" drive bays or they will overheat.

Personally I don't think a side panel fan will do much for you though. You might want to mount an additional 120mm fan in the 5.25" drive bays if you have enough room for it. You can mount it using zip ties. I've seen that help quite a bit on that series of case (I have two of the Elite 330's which are essentially the same chassis with the PSU at the top instead of the bottom like yours).


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *abu46*


i have 2x120mm & 1x80mm fan to work with in my 430 elite

presently i have a 120mm fan upfront as intake, another 120mm at back as exhaust and an 80mm on top as intake

i am considering to move the front 120mm to the side as intake as the air flow path from front is a bit obstructed, will it have negative affect on hdd cooling ?

should i mount the 120mm side closer to the cpu or gpu?


Ditch the 80mm fan. Move the rear fan to top intake in the forward top position. If you want to get a new lowspeed 120mm fan you can put it on the side panel as a supplementary intake. It will help keep your gpu cooler, but remove the unused rear slot covers to give the air somewhere to escape.

Remove your rear grill so the air from your top intake will have an easy outlet.


----------



## abu46

@PapaSmurf

will an 80mm fan at the front be good and a 120mm fan as side intake and one at back

@ehume

you suggest to remove the rear 120mm exhaust completely and there will be no exhaust fan at all, right?
what i have read from diff. sources is that an rear exhaust is a must!!

yes, i was thinking about putting a side intake to cool the gpu

after i moved the 80mm fan at the top from exhaust to intake, my temps dropped by 2 degrees but but the fan makes more noise as compared to when it was mounted as exhaust, what could be the reason for this??


----------



## PapaSmurf

Quote:



Originally Posted by *abu46*


@PapaSmurf

will an 80mm fan at the front be good and a 120mm fan as side intake and one at back

@ehume

you suggest to remove the rear 120mm exhaust completely and there will be no exhaust fan at all, right?
what i have read from diff. sources is that an rear exhaust is a must!!

yes, i was thinking about putting a side intake to cool the gpu

after i moved the 80mm fan at the top from exhaust to intake, my temps dropped by 2 degrees but but the fan makes more noise as compared to when it was mounted as exhaust, what could be the reason for this??


Using the 80 as a front intake probably won't move enough air to do much good.

If you have a Tower style cpu heatsink blowing from front to back you can often times do without the rear case fan and have minimal effect on cooling since the air is being blown that way anyway. If you have a stock heatsink that blows down on the mobo it might not work that well.

Depending on the location of the fan sometimes intake is more effective while in others exhaust is more effective. Unfortunately that's quite common for 80mm fans which is why we've been recommending that you spend a few bucks and get a 120mm fan or two to replace that 80mm and do things in a way that will optimize your cooling and minimize your noise. A couple of 30-40cfm 120mm case fans would work quite well and can be picked up for about $10-12 for the pair.


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *abu46*


@PapaSmurf

will an 80mm fan at the front be good and a 120mm fan as side intake and one at back

@ehume

you suggest to remove the rear 120mm exhaust completely and there will be no exhaust fan at all, right?
what i have read from diff. sources is that an rear exhaust is a must!!

yes, i was thinking about putting a side intake to cool the gpu

after i moved the 80mm fan at the top from exhaust to intake, my temps dropped by 2 degrees but but the fan makes more noise as compared to when it was mounted as exhaust, what could be the reason for this??



Quote:



Originally Posted by *PapaSmurf*


Using the 80 as a front intake probably won't move enough air to do much good.

If you have a Tower style cpu heatsink blowing from front to back you can often times do without the rear case fan and have minimal effect on cooling since the air is being blown that way anyway. If you have a stock heatsink that blows down on the mobo it might not work that well.

Depending on the location of the fan sometimes intake is more effective while in others exhaust is more effective. Unfortunately that's quite common for 80mm fans which is why we've been recommending that you spend a few bucks and get a 120mm fan or two to replace that 80mm and do things in a way that will optimize your cooling and minimize your noise. A couple of 30-40cfm 120mm case fans would work quite well and can be picked up for about $10-12 for the pair.


Listen to Papa.

Look at item 2 of my sig. With the rear grill gone so you have a free path out, your tower-style heatsink can act as your case exhaust.

As fans get larger they can move more air more quietly. A 200mm fan spins slower and makes less noise and puts out more air than a 140mm fan. 140 > 120mm fan. 120 > 92mm, and 92 > 80mm.

Back when I was new to this I bought two 80mm fans for the front of my Antec Tomb. It required an 80mm fan. I bought a Noctua and a Nexus. What did they teach me? That when an 80mm is bearable it puts out little air. When an 80mm puts out adequate air it is unbearable. This was borne out when I tried out salvaged 80mm fans and some from a grab bag. I have lots of the little buggers, all mostly useless.


----------



## PapaSmurf

I did find a use for a rather low speed 80mm fan. Used some double sided tape to stick one blowing through that oddly placed 3.5" drive bay in the BetaEVO. i can't hear it at all, but it cools a 3.5" hard drive to around 32-35C making that bay useful. Now if I could get the rest of the case to cool well. Temps are running about 4C hotter than the same hardware in my old CM Elite 330 case.

The only other use I've found them useful for is for spot cooling on NB heatsinks or ram where you don't need a lot of air, just air focused on a specific spot. Other than that they are fairly useless.


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PapaSmurf*


I did find a use for a rather low speed 80mm fan. Used some double sided tape to stick one blowing through that oddly placed 3.5" drive bay in the BetaEVO. i can't hear it at all, but it cools a 3.5" hard drive to around 32-35C making that bay useful. Now if I could get the rest of the case to cool well. Temps are running about 4C hotter than the same hardware in my old CM Elite 330 case.

The only other use I've found them useful for is for spot cooling on NB heatsinks or ram where you don't need a lot of air, just air focused on a specific spot. Other than that they are fairly useless.












That mid-case fan uses the 3.5 bay as an intake tunnel. It really draws air.

I have twin 80's up on top of the optical drive, held on with Velcro. I have them at 5v.


----------



## TheSonicEmerald

For fans, I currently have a CM R4 140mm as intake in the front, and a CMR4 120mm exhaust in the back. Those are the only case fans I have. I have my TY140 heatsink fans pushing air right into the 120mm exhaust. No more space for a top mounting fan, but I have enough space for one side fan. Should I get the extra side fan?


----------



## PapaSmurf

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ehume*


That mid-case fan uses the 3.5 bay as an intake tunnel. It really draws air.

I have twin 80's up on top of the optical drive, held on with Velcro. I have them at 5v.


But you don't have an actual 3.5" hard drive in that bay like I do which is why I mounted the 80 in front behind the bezel.

I have a 120 in the 5.25" drive bay blowing directly at the push fan on the 212+


----------



## abu46

@Papa
its just that i have a 80mm fan lying with me which i wanted to put to good use as my ambient are about 35C now

i do agree with you that an 120/140mm fan but i have little cash with me that i am saving to buy an 212+ (dont laugh)

@ehume
i saw your thread abt -ve pressure rig, but as papa said you can do away with the exhaust as you have cpu heat sink with push-pull config, but i am using the stock HS
i think i need to have an exhaust at the back

the 80mm fan did bring my temp down by about2 deg(when using it as exhaust on top) and 3-4 deg when usin as intake on top

can you suggest the best config. for cooling my rig with these 3 fans until i can get a 212+


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TheSonicEmerald*


For fans, I currently have a CM R4 140mm as intake in the front, and a CMR4 120mm exhaust in the back. Those are the only case fans I have. I have my TY140 heatsink fans pushing air right into the 120mm exhaust. No more space for a top mounting fan, but I have enough space for one side fan. Should I get the extra side fan?


Lordy. That's a Scout. What happened to the fans that came with it?


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PapaSmurf*


But you don't have an actual 3.5" hard drive in that bay like I do which is why I mounted the 80 in front behind the bezel.


I have my SSD Velcro'd in there. Not as bulky as your HD, but it does take up space.

Quote:



I have a 120 in the 5.25" drive bay blowing directly at the push fan on the 212+


I like that approach. For my next mod adventure I'm swapping my IO panel and optical drive so I can put a 120mm behind the IO panel on top of the OD.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *abu46*


@Papa
its just that i have a 80mm fan lying with me which i wanted to put to good use as my ambient are about 35C now

i do agree with you that an 120/140mm fan but i have little cash with me that i am saving to buy an 212+ (dont laugh)

@ehume
i saw your thread abt -ve pressure rig, but as papa said you can do away with the exhaust as you have cpu heat sink with push-pull config, but i am using the stock HS
i think i need to have an exhaust at the back

the 80mm fan did bring my temp down by about2 deg(when using it as exhaust on top) and 3-4 deg when usin as intake on top

can you suggest the best config. for cooling my rig with these 3 fans until i can get a 212+


I'd say leave everything as you have it. You got your 3-4c drop. That's great for now.


----------



## abu46

ok

but why is that when i mount the 80mm as intake it generates more noise than when i mount the same fan at the same location as exhaust??


----------



## PapaSmurf

Quote:



Originally Posted by *abu46*


@Papa
its just that i have a 80mm fan lying with me which i wanted to put to good use as my ambient are about 35C now

i do agree with you that an 120/140mm fan but i have little cash with me that i am saving to buy an 212+ (dont laugh)

@ehume
i saw your thread abt -ve pressure rig, but as papa said you can do away with the exhaust as you have cpu heat sink with push-pull config, but i am using the stock HS
i think i need to have an exhaust at the back

the 80mm fan did bring my temp down by about2 deg(when using it as exhaust on top) and 3-4 deg when usin as intake on top

can you suggest the best config. for cooling my rig with these 3 fans until i can get a 212+


With 35C ambient temps there really isn't a whole lot you can do. Just try the fans in various configurations and see what provides the best overall temps until you can get some additional fans. the 212+ will help quite a bit once you get that.


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *abu46*


ok

but why is that when i mount the 80mm as intake it generates more noise than when i mount the same fan at the same location as exhaust??


Not sure. But try mounting with Velcro. It will give the fan some distance from the top grill. Velcro also dampens vibrations.


----------



## abu46

can you provide some links on how to go about with mounting fans with velcro?


----------



## PapaSmurf

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ehume*


I have my SSD Velcro'd in there. Not as bulky as your HD, but it does take up space.

I like that approach. For my next mod adventure I'm swapping my IO panel and optical drive so I can put a 120mm behind the IO panel on top of the OD.

I'd say leave everything as you have it. You got your 3-4c drop. That's great for now.


But the 3.5" hard drive sticks out the back so hanging a 120 there would be a lot more difficult to work around the cables.

Not sure why you would want a 120 mounted like that, but it sounds interesting.

And I agree about the 3-4C drop.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *abu46*


ok

but why is that when i mount the 80mm as intake it generates more noise than when i mount the same fan at the same location as exhaust??


It has to do with the grill openings in the case. I run into the same thing on my BetaEVO. Noisest fan openings I've ever run across on a case. Much noisier than any of th CoolerMaster cases I've dealt with. Kinda makes me wish I had gone with the HAF 912 instead of the BetaEVO now. That, and the built in 2.5" drive support that the BetaEVO lacks. Since I can't seem to sell any of the Seagate Constellation.2 SATA 3 drives I have I figure I might as well use them.


----------



## YikesItsGood

I just picked up a HAF 912 and plan on replacing the fans and adding some dust filtration to it before I assemble my new rig. Here's a few questions I have regarding this rig and cooling pertaining to it.

Specs for HAF 912 Fans (Pics: http://bit.ly/mxXnqR):
Top: 120 mm fan x 2 or 200mm fan x 1 (optional)
Front: 120 mm fan x 2 or 1 x 200 mm fan
Side: 120/140 mm fan x 1 (optional)
Rear: 120 mm fan x 1

1) Any way to find out if 2 TY-140's can go on top? Not sure how they work as they're 120mm screws but 140mm in size I believe.
2) Where is the best place to pick up TY-140's (price wise)? I am located in the SF Bay Area, so if there's a good regional seller let me know.
3) Dust Filtration! Is the best route to cough up money for the DEMCiflex filters? If so, do I purchase the pre-made HAF 912 sizes or just buy the generics that would fit the sizes needed? I've seen the DIY Panty Hose mods for 932's, but would like something a bit more reliable.
4) How do I setup intake and exhaust for airflow on this system? The PSU will be bottom mounted.


----------



## PapaSmurf

Quote:



Originally Posted by *YikesItsGood*


I just picked up a HAF 912 and plan on replacing the fans and adding some dust filtration to it before I assemble my new rig. Here's a few questions I have regarding this rig and cooling pertaining to it.

Specs for HAF 912 Fans (Pics: http://bit.ly/mxXnqR):
Top: 120 mm fan x 2 or 200mm fan x 1 (optional)
Front: 120 mm fan x 2 or 1 x 200 mm fan
Side: 120/140 mm fan x 1 (optional)
Rear: 120 mm fan x 1

1) Any way to find out if 2 TY-140's can go on top? Not sure how they work as they're 120mm screws but 140mm in size I believe.
2) Where is the best place to pick up TY-140's (price wise)? I am located in the SF Bay Area, so if there's a good regional seller let me know.
3) I have a Cooler Master 212+, is there a good fan to replace the stock one with? Looking for CFM and quiet, not some monster 2k rpm screamer.
4) Dust Filtration! Is the best route to cough up money for the DEMCiflex filters? If so, do I purchase the pre-made HAF 912 sizes or just buy the generics that would fit the sizes needed? I've seen the DIY Panty Hose mods for 932's, but would like something a bit more reliable.
5) How do I setup intake and exhaust for airflow on this system? The PSU will be bottom mounted.


1) I doubt it as the fans are still 140mm wide. I recommend putting one of the CM 200 mm fans there instead.

2) I have no idea.

3) Unless you want to give up cooling use the stock fan that comes with it. It really isn't that loud, especially if you use PWM fan control. You might want to consider going with a pair of Medium Speed Yate Loons in push/pull or get a second BladeMaster, put them in a P/P setup, then dial the RPMs back to around 1,200-1,300 rpms. That should give you about the same cooling as a single Blademaster running full speed, but be quieter.

Remember, it isn't just the CFM's that affect cooling, it's the Static Pressure and that's where quieter fans will let you down. They simply don't have enough Static Pressure to force the air thru the fins of a heatsink enough to get the job done.

4) It already has front filtration. Since the top would most likely be exhaust it doesn't need to be filtered and neither would the back. The only filter you would need to add is to the side panel intake fan.

5) Front intake, top and rear exhaust. Either leave the side fan opening blank or mount an intake fan there.


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *abu46*


can you provide some links on how to go about with mounting fans with velcro?


Item 6 in my sig.

You can get Velcro in double-sided rectangular pads. Take two, cut them in the middle at 45-degree angels, put 1/2 of each pad on each of the four corners of the fan. Then put the fan where you want, and it just sticks there until you need to service it.

BTW - if the 80mm fan is a sleeve bearing fan, be sure to lubricate it (see my sig).


----------



## abu46

sorry didnt see that before

thnx to you and papa for your support


----------



## xetsog

Anybody know of a decent cooler that will fit in my new case? Clearance from the manufacturer's website is 131.5mm.

My signature rig is accurate and I'm not particularly looking to save money. I just want something that will fit in my case and cool my CPU efficiently while overclocking.


----------



## Tator Tot

Your best option is an Antec Khuler 920


----------



## xetsog

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Your best option is an Antec Khuler 920


What would be the best air cooler in my case? I just want some perspective before I spend just a tad more for a water cooler.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xetsog*


What would be the best air cooler in my case? I just want some perspective before I spend just a tad more for a water cooler.


Well you're pretty much limited to 92mm towers, and none of them are particularly great.

Xigmatek's SD963 is usually cheap, around $20 but it won't really take an overclock all too well.


----------



## xetsog

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Well you're pretty much limited to 92mm towers, and none of them are particularly great.

Xigmatek's SD963 is usually cheap, around $20 but it won't really take an overclock all too well.


Ah, thanks. I was reading on various forums that the Corsair H50 will fit in my case if I move one of the top fans over. Would I benefit from getting the H50 over the Khuler?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xetsog*


Ah, thanks. I was reading on various forums that the Corsair H50 will fit in my case if I move one of the top fans over. Would I benefit from getting the H50 over the Khuler?


The Antec Khuler 620 & 920 are better than the Corsair H50 & H70


----------



## xetsog

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


The Antec Khuler 620 & 920 are better than the Corsair H50 & H70


That's all I needed to know. Thanks very much, kind sir.


----------



## Tator Tot

No problem


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xetsog;13400653*
> Anybody know of a decent cooler that will fit in my new case? Clearance from the manufacturer's website is 131.5mm.
> 
> My signature rig is accurate and I'm not particularly looking to save money. I just want something that will fit in my case and cool my CPU efficiently while overclocking.


How big is your exhaust fan? If you have a 120mm exhaust fan you can fit a full tower cooler like a 212+, Megahalems, D14, Silver Arrow, etc.


----------



## Tator Tot

Just Letting everyone know, the Gentle Typhoon 2150 Group Buy is a go now.


----------



## PapaSmurf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;13406866*
> How big is your exhaust fan? If you have a 120mm exhaust fan you can fit a full tower cooler like a 212+, Megahalems, D14, Silver Arrow, etc.


Not with only 131mm clearance for the heatsink he can't.


----------



## xetsog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PapaSmurf;13407875*
> Not with only 131mm clearance for the heatsink he can't.


I have a Hyper 212+ and I can confirm it doesn't fit. I really should've done more research.


----------



## PapaSmurf

It might fit if you take off the side panel fan. Have you tried that?


----------



## xetsog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PapaSmurf;13408686*
> It might fit if you take off the side panel fan. Have you tried that?


If I take the side panel fan off it leaves a gaping hole on the side of my case. See, I assumed the mesh would stay on if I just took the fan off, but that's not the case.


----------



## PapaSmurf

That makes it more difficult. You could always install a window in the opening. Other than that it's basically one of the options that Tator Tot mentioned.


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xetsog*


If I take the side panel fan off it leaves a gaping hole on the side of my case. See, I assumed the mesh would stay on if I just took the fan off, but that's not the case.


Meshes are generally not part of fans. You will probably need four fan screws to hold on that mesh. As for nuts for those screws, get #8 or #10 nylon nuts from your auto supply store. Like this:









(It's not a mesh, but the finger guard uses fan screws and nylon nuts to remain in place.)


----------



## jut703

I've got a question, given two coolers with pretty similar build and specs (i.e. same fan size (92mm) and similar fan CFM, which is a more efficient design, one with heatpipes and the fan perpendicular to the CPU or that of the stock coolers, where the fan is directly blowing onto the CPU.

The particular HSFs I'm comparing are the Deepcool Ice Edge 200T and Deep Cool Beta 200ST:









http://www.deepcoolglobal.com/Product/ICEEDGE_200T/

vs









http://www.deepcoolglobal.com/Product/BETA200_ST/

Thanks in advance for any insights you guys can offer.


----------



## PapaSmurf

If everything else was the same (as if the tower was basically just flopped over but remained the exact same size) the tower would probably be 2 to 4C cooler than the one blowing down. But, the one blowing down would cool the mosfet's and the rest of the components around the cpu socket better so you would gain enough there to make it close to a toss up.

In the case of the two you mentioned, the tower would probably be a good 5C or more cooler than the Beta 200 ST at the bottom. From what I can tell, the Beta is only a couple of degrees better than the stock cooler so paying any amount of money for it would be a waste. But unless you don't have other options or can get it very cheap there are much better options than either of these.


----------



## jut703

Thanks for the reply PapaSmurf. I've also been thinking that the tower type is better, but I'm not really sure why. Care to explain?


----------



## PapaSmurf

Between the two you showed, the tower has more mass and would allow better overall airflow through the heatsink. That's why it would cool better. When you are talking about Towers in general it's because they can have more mass and because they are oriented to draw in cooler air into the heatsink then blow the hot air directly out the back or top of the case (depending on how the heatsink is oriented). A heatsink that blows down on the motherboard blows all of the hot air down on the mobo and makes it more difficult to expel it out of the case. Plus, due to size restrictions it simply isn't possible to make a heatsink that blows down onto the motherboard with anywhere close the mass of a tower and make it effective. You can get somewhat close in the case of the Noctua NH-NC14, but that's an exception.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PapaSmurf;13515408*
> Between the two you showed, the tower has more mass and would allow better overall airflow through the heatsink. That's why it would cool better. When you are talking about Towers in general it's because they can have more mass and because they are oriented to draw in cooler air into the heatsink then blow the hot air directly out the back or top of the case (depending on how the heatsink is oriented). A heatsink that blows down on the motherboard blows all of the hot air down on the mobo and makes it more difficult to expel it out of the case. Plus, due to size restrictions it simply isn't possible to make a heatsink that blows down onto the motherboard with anywhere close the mass of a tower and make it effective. You can get somewhat close in the case of the Noctua NH-NC14, but that's an exception.


Or get the best of both worlds with the Prolimatech Genesis. And then there's that four-fan thing from Scythe.


----------



## PapaSmurf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;13516156*
> Or get the best of both worlds with the Prolimatech Genesis. And then there's that four-fan thing from Scythe.


Interesting concept, but I would go with the Noctua NH-C14 instead of the Genesis. The Genesis would be good for cooling the ram, but due to the location of the horizontal section it wouldn't have much effect on the mosfets along the sides of the cpu socket, and even less on the opposite side of the cpu socket. The NH_C14 would do a better overall job on all of the mosfets and still be able to cool the ram and do a better job of cooling the cpu. At least that's the way I see it.

I have no idea about which Scythe you are referring to so I can't comment on it.


----------



## jut703

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PapaSmurf;13515408*
> Between the two you showed, the tower has more mass and would allow better overall airflow through the heatsink. That's why it would cool better. When you are talking about Towers in general it's because they can have more mass and because they are oriented to draw in cooler air into the heatsink then blow the hot air directly out the back or top of the case (depending on how the heatsink is oriented). A heatsink that blows down on the motherboard blows all of the hot air down on the mobo and makes it more difficult to expel it out of the case. Plus, due to size restrictions it simply isn't possible to make a heatsink that blows down onto the motherboard with anywhere close the mass of a tower and make it effective. You can get somewhat close in the case of the Noctua NH-NC14, but that's an exception.


Thanks a lot for your enlightening reply sir


----------



## PapaSmurf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jut703;13537068*
> Thanks a lot for your enlightening reply sir


No problem. I do what I can.


----------



## Brickman

Im running a Zalman CNPS9900 120mm fan cooling my stock AMD Phenom II x4 965.
Although this is my 1st gaming computer and a quad core, I wanted to know if my temperatures are normal. Also using Arctic Silver 5 compound.

According to CPUID hardware monitor im getting 85 F (30C) and the highest I could get is in 3Dmark06 is 120.

Is that normal for a stock 965 BE?


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Here are my temps after 10 runs IBT with avx at 1.28v/4500mhz with my hyper 212:

Core 0 - 64c
Core 1 - 72c
Core 2 - 72c
Core 3 - 68c

Do these temps seem high for such a low voltage? I tried bumping to 1.4 to hit 4800mhz but temps got to 90c before I shut it down. I'm fine with my temps and OC for 24/7 but unless I can get lower temps at higher volts I'm stuck at 4500mhz...


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Brickman*


Im running a Zalman CNPS9900 120mm fan cooling my stock AMD Phenom II x4 965.
Although this is my 1st gaming computer and a quad core, I wanted to know if my temperatures are normal. Also using Arctic Silver 5 compound.

According to CPUID hardware monitor im getting 85 F (30C) and the highest I could get is in 3Dmark06 is 120.

Is that normal for a stock 965 BE?


We all use Celsius for standardizing purposes. 120F = 48c. This is well within max temps of 55-62c. You are perfectly fine. Now get to overclocking! I would suggest stopping by the appropriate AMD forum for more help on overclocking your specific CPU. Good Luck









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*


Here are my temps after 10 runs IBT with avx at 1.28v/4500mhz with my hyper 212:

Core 0 - 64c
Core 1 - 72c
Core 2 - 72c
Core 3 - 68c

Do these temps seem high for such a low voltage? I tried bumping to 1.4 to hit 4800mhz but temps got to 90c before I shut it down. I'm fine with my temps and OC for 24/7 but unless I can get lower temps at higher volts I'm stuck at 4500mhz...


Those temps are also just fine. for a 4.5 OC and utilizing a little Hyper 212 I think you are looking great. You are also within the max temps. If you want to go any higher I would suggest a beefier CPU Cooler but for the price the Hyper 212 will do you just fine.


----------



## luXfer

I don't have any questions; rather, I'd like to give some thanks to you for this thread. Because of you, I decided to reseat my heatsink because my temps seemed a little high, even for my heatsink/fan.

That's when I realized that my CPU fan was facing the wrong way.

And now, my CPU is folding at an average of 12 degrees Celsius cooler than before. I also used the opportunity to clean out all the dust (HAF-932 really needs dust filters, no?).

Thanks again







; the temp difference is bewildering. I wonder what a Hyper 212+ will get me...

Water?


----------



## Akusho

Hello!
Can someone, please, advice me on organizing the airflow and optimizing my cooling?
My room temp are usually around 31 or more, and my i7 heats up to 70-71C without OC (~1.25v 2.8Ghz), probably will get around 88 with OC, too much for me.
I have 3x1200rpm exhaust fans and 2x1200rpm intakes


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Akusho;13785194*
> Hello!
> Can someone, please, advice me on organizing the airflow and optimizing my cooling?
> My room temp are usually around 31 or more, and my i7 heats up to 70-71C without OC (~1.25v 2.8Ghz), probably will get around 88 with OC, too much for me.
> I have 3x1200rpm exhaust fans and 2x1200rpm intakes


Adding a 2nd fan for push/pull on your heatsink may net you 2-4c better. Another front intake fan perhaps another 1-3c. Since you are at stock you can probably get away with undervolting if you wanted to go to that extreme, which depending on how much you lower your volts that could be 1-10c drop.

Is your i7 920 a C0 or D0? D0 would give you more flexibility.

Are you getting those max temps with Prime95?


----------



## Akusho

Getting them with OCCT, mine is D0, and I'm not looking for the coolest CPU, i just need it cool enough for an overclock.
Should i add an exhaust on the heatsink or both in?


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Akusho;13785712*
> Getting them with OCCT, mine is D0, and I'm not looking for the coolest CPU, i just need it cool enough for an overclock.
> Should i add an exhaust on the heatsink or both in?


Well as for a DO you can probably get a decent overclock while keeping that same voltage which would keep your temps relatively unchanged.

As for the fan, you would add it so that the air passes through the same direction; also known as push/pull. One fan is pushing air the other is pulling the air out of the heatsink.

f=fan
HS=Heatsink
<--=airflow

<--|f|HS|f|<---

Play around with your overclock. 85c during stressing is about as far as I'd go for a 24/7 overclock. 71c isn't all that bad, especially considering your room is 31c.


----------



## Akusho

Should i remove the back exhaust with the second fan on the heatsink or leave it?


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Akusho;13786225*
> Should i remove the back exhaust with the second fan on the heatsink or leave it?


I tend to leave it. Some people remove it and it works better for them.

If you cut out the mesh (as instructed in my guide) on the back exhaust you won't need a back exhaust for the case with a 2nd fan on your heatsink.

If you do not remove the mesh then hot air will hit the mesh and get dispersed throughout the inside of the case so in that case I would leave the case exhaust fan on.


----------



## luXfer

Hey; several questions that actually kinda tie in with water-cooling...regardless, all of them have to do with fans.

I'm planning on ordering an XSPC Rasa RX-360 kit in the near future; as such, I'm mounting the rad within my CM HAF-932 on the top.

This leads to my first question; I've heard that the RX-360 radiator somehow functions *best* with lower RPM (ie, slower) fans. Would there be any harm in having higher RPM fans though?
The primary reason I ask is because I'm planning on getting x3 Petra's Yate Loons for the rad; since all of the different speed variations are priced exactly the same, why shouldn't I go for the higher speed ones?

Note - I also aim to buy a fan controller for the rad'd Yate Loons, regardless of which speeds I do buy.

My next question has to do with case cooling in general. The bottom of my case has space for one 120mm fan; I plan to buy the fourth Yate Loon for the bargain (







), but I also want a CM SickleFlow Red somewhere in the case. Furthermore, I was hoping for a slightly positive air pressure flow in my case.

As such; what is the optimal fan to place where? For example; would placing the SickleFlow as an intake on the bottom and the Yate Loon as an exhaust through the rear be any different than having the two switch places?

If this proves too troublesome to answer; how would I account for the triple Yate Loon Rad'd exhaust in terms of pressure for the case - or does the rad simply not make a difference in terms of case air flow?

Thanks again OCN; much appreciated


----------



## Meowws

Which is why u need to get a cooler master v10 and bend it this way to get efficient cooling!! 29'C tested with prime at 3.6ghz. Consume 13 watts lesser, suck less dust too!


----------



## elzhi

good day fine gentlemen.

i need the "best" aircooler there is.

i don't want nothing massive like noctua nh-d14.(or thermalight silver arrow)
i'd strap on 1 or 2 Gentle Typhoons on it (1450 rpm ones), my case is atcs 840.

or should i wait for h100 ? how loud are those hx0 corsair coolers ? i know the stock fans are crap but i'd never use the them anyway. but i've read somewhere the pump is noisy, i'd like to have my pc as quiet as possible (which is why i use GT fans and have a fan controller)

thanks for your time.


----------



## Tator Tot

Well the best air cooler is the Thermalright Silver Arrow so it's hard to recommend a cooler now.

As for the Corsair H100; it doesn't perform that well to justify the cost. If you're going liquid cooling, at that price point, you should just build your own.

A SuperMega w/ GT's would be a good alternative, but it's not the best.


----------



## elzhi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Well the best air cooler is the Thermalright Silver Arrow so it's hard to recommend a cooler now.

As for the Corsair H100; it doesn't perform that well to justify the cost. If you're going liquid cooling, at that price point, you should just build your own.

A SuperMega w/ GT's would be a good alternative, but it's not the best.


thanks for reply









SuperMega it is then.

thanks again.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

I don't know if I missed it or not but...
Is the Zalman CNPS 11x worth talking about here? Does it work well or does it stink? If it works well is it close to being competition for say the D14 or the SA?
Are there any 200mm fans that are for exhaust (that aren't pieces of sphincter)?
Anyone know of how I could put a fan in the 5.25" bays? And what fans fit best with what number of bays?
Thanks >_____<


----------



## PapaSmurf

You can mount a 120mm fan in three 5.25" bays any number of ways. Most people just use Zip Ties. You can also pack strips of foam between the fan and the sides of the drive bays. You can also cut down the metal drive bay plates, drill a couple of holes, then screw a fan to it to hold them in place. I've also seen people cut a small piece of plastic that they attach to the front of the drive bays (behind the drive bay covers), cut a hole in the middle for the fan, and then screw the fan to it.

What little I've seen of the Zalman CNPS 11x shows it isn't in the same class as a Silver Arrow, NH-D14, or similar. It is good though, just not as good. It would probably be fine for a dual or quad core (without hyper-threading) and a fairly decent OC, but throw a 6 or 8 core, or an i7-9xx with hyper-threading and try to OC it very much and it would be in over it's head. At least, that's the way I see it. Someone else might have a different opinion.


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


I don't know if I missed it or not but...
Is the Zalman CNPS 11x worth talking about here? Does it work well or does it stink? If it works well is it close to being competition for say the D14 or the SA?
Are there any 200mm fans that are for exhaust (that aren't pieces of sphincter)?
Anyone know of how I could put a fan in the 5.25" bays? And what fans fit best with what number of bays?
Thanks >_____<


Zalman CNPS are somewhere between the Hyper 212+ and the Mugen 2. Not bad, not great; but not on the same level as the Silver Arrow or the NH-D14.

I don't know about 200mm fans. The one I have is slow, quiet and blows some air. That's what you use them for: quietude.

Fans in 5.25 bay. You can fit a 120mm or a 140mm fan there.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Questions! Yea!









Okay, so what is the best CPU cooler you can get for around $40? This is a strict budget and I'm open to suggestions.
The ones I'm looking at:
Zalman CNPS9500A-LED
Cooler Master Hyper 212+
Xigmatek Dark Knight (on Newegg, it comes with a $20 rebate so it ends up a little more than $30.)

Is the Dark Knight the best one? Any other suggestions?
Thanks


----------



## Tator Tot

Corsair A70 $41 Shipped + $20 MIR


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

And that one is better than all of the others I mentioned?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*


And that one is better than all of the others I mentioned?


Oh yeah, the Hyper212+ & Dark Knight are about on par. With them being slightly lower than the Corsair A50.

The CNPS-9500 hasn't been "Mid-Range" in a very long time (it's a very old design.)


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Thank you, again, Mr. Tot.


----------



## Tator Tot

No problem


----------



## Sansoclute

I don't see any Gelid Solutions Tranquillo there...








CM 212+ were out of stock "anywhere" in my city, so I bought this Gelid HSF for US$ 34
Is it bad?


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sansoclute;14615039*
> I don't see any Gelid Solutions Tranquillo there...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CM 212+ were out of stock "anywhere" in my city, so I bought this Gelid HSF for US$ 34
> Is it bad?


The Gelid is about equal in performance to the 212+ so no its not bad at all.

Source


----------



## Sansoclute

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shadowclock*


The Gelid is about equal in performance to the 212+ so no its not bad at all.

Source


Ugh, I'm amazed with Gelid performance in that review, thank's for the link Shadow


----------



## mostowizard

I need a case small enough to take with me on an airplane as carry on:

23 cm x 40 cm x 55 cm
(9 in x 15.5 in x 21.5 in)

Right now I'm planning on buying + modding a lian li pc-a05n. Is there a better option?


----------



## wackyshut

Wow,nice article...

I'm new to this site..i like to experiment with air cooling a lot,and now i have much more information from this article...

Nice share bro...


----------



## andydabeast

Hi all I will be getting a new mobo this black friday and it occurred to me that my cpu cooler may not be good enough to get to 4ghz anyway. the cooler I have now is this-

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835186134

with some of my friend's high quality thermal paste. I have the 1055t which is at 2.8ghz stock. Would it be safe to OC that high? My case has all 5 possible fans in it and I don't live on the equator lol so what are your thoughts?


----------



## Tator Tot

Your current board would be a poor choice for overclocking that chip due to the bad VRM design.

Like wise, the Cooler would most likely not be able to keep your chip below 55*C; so it wouldn't work either.


----------



## andydabeast

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Your current board would be a poor choice for overclocking that chip due to the bad VRM design.

Like wise, the Cooler would most likely not be able to keep your chip below 55*C; so it wouldn't work either.


I know about the board ill be getting the sabertooth or crosshair V or UD3 most likely.

Right now I am at 3.25ghz and 1.31v and I top out at about 43C in a 72F room... If I was at 1.46v for the 4Ghz how hot you think it would get?


----------



## Tator Tot

With that cooler, I could see you getting up to 70*C in Prime95 if not higher.


----------



## andydabeast

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


With that cooler, I could see you getting up to 70*C in Prime95 if not higher.


Really??? that 43C is under prime95 load you know right? ill find out I guess... would be really nice not to have to get a new cooler to get 4ghz...


----------



## andydabeast

just realized that link i had to my cooler didnt work... here it is-

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186134


----------



## Tator Tot

That's still not a good cooler to use on that chip.


----------



## ehume

ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro Rev.2 92mm Fluid Dynamic CPU Cooler - horrible little underpowered overnoisy POS. I have one sitting next to my rig as a reminder to do my homework before making any purchase.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

So why is it the CNPS12x might not do super well? Or am I imagining that I heard that?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14995212*
> ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro Rev.2 92mm Fluid Dynamic CPU Cooler - horrible little underpowered overnoisy POS. I have one sitting next to my rig as a reminder to do my homework before making any purchase.


It was a good cooler when it came out, but that was 2005; when Heatpipes were new and you were just cooling Athlon 64 x2's are Core 2 Duo's.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;14996252*
> So why is it the CNPS12x might not do super well? Or am I imagining that I heard that?


The CNPS12x hasn't been tested yet (not that I have seen at least), but that design from Zalman's been used over an over again in their CNPS 9000 series of coolers. The 9500, 9700, 9900, & 9900MAX have all not been that great as far as cooling goes; so the assumption is that the CNPS12x will not be either.

We'll see though, with the right design, and right price; it could be a good option.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14998937*
> The CNPS12x hasn't been tested yet (not that I have seen at least), but that design from Zalman's been used over an over again in their CNPS 9000 series of coolers. The 9500, 9700, 9900, & 9900MAX have all not been that great as far as cooling goes; so the assumption is that the CNPS12x will not be either.
> 
> We'll see though, with the right design, and right price; it could be a good option.


I hope so. Zalman always seems to be just off when getting the cooling perfect. The 9900CNPS that I have is nice, but it could be better.

Thanks, all-knowing Tot.







+


----------



## Tator Tot

No problem


----------



## MINE

Hello I'm building a new gig and i'm wondering is the CMH212 + one of these http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-BladeMaster-Silent-R4-BMBS-20PK-R0/dp/B0030DL37I/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1316646259&sr=1-1]Amazon.com: Cooler Master BladeMaster 120mm PWM High Air Flow Silent Case Fan R4-BMBS-20PK-R0: Electronics[/URL] is enough to overclock and maintain good tempt or should I look into something else? It will be ocing on a 2500k .

edit: Also can i get any 120MM fan for the cpu cooler, can a 120 case fan work also as a 2nd fan or does it have to be the one i just linked.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MINE;15018597*
> Hello I'm building a new gig and i'm wondering is the CMH212 + one of these Amazon.com: Cooler Master BladeMaster 120mm PWM High Air Flow Silent Case Fan R4-BMBS-20PK-R0: Electronics is enough to overclock and maintain good tempt or should I look into something else? It will be ocing on a 2500k .
> 
> edit: Also can i get any 120MM fan for the cpu cooler, can a 120 case fan work also as a 2nd fan or does it have to be the one i just linked.


The Blade Master is the stock fan with the H212+; so if you're going to run Push-Pull on it, that's the best option to get.


----------



## MINE

So I can pair it with two ultra kaze 2000 or 1 correct , or any 120mm fan onto the cpu cooler?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MINE;15019781*
> So I can pair it with two ultra kaze 2000 or 1 correct , or any 120mm fan onto the cpu cooler?


You don't want to pair it with a UK. But if you want to pair it with the stock H212+ fan, that's fine.

The Blade Master is more powerful than the UK2k


----------



## MINE

Okay just to confirm the blademaster and the stock fan that come with the heatsink , that can help me reach my overclocking need to 4.0-4.5ghz on the 2500k?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MINE*


Okay just to confirm the blademaster and the stock fan that come with the heatsink , that can help me reach my overclocking need to 4.0-4.5ghz on the 2500k?


Yes.


----------



## MINE

Thanks a lot appreciate it.


----------



## Brother Jones

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14995212*
> ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro Rev.2 92mm Fluid Dynamic CPU Cooler - horrible little underpowered overnoisy POS. I have one sitting next to my rig as a reminder to do my homework before making any purchase.


ehume and Shadowclock, I registered this evening to provide a general thank you to everyone here for the wealth of information these posts provide, but I also wanted to thank you in particular. Shadowclock, the OP is a fantastic resource, and ehume, the testing information in your signature, and the general air cooling observations in your posts, have been a huge help as I wrestled with cooling decisions for a new build (still quite modest at this point but I had previously been completely unfamiliar with air cooling).

So many thanks to both of you, and to the other posters on these forums!


----------



## ehume

You're welcome!


----------



## Zippyduda

Just wanted to check that these are absolutely normal temperatures (I believe they are). Signature specifications with stock Intel cooler, AS5 TIM, all fans on lowest setting, GTX570 fan on 40%, Idle on Desktop.

The only thing that is odd is I don't know if the 5 and 12 voltages are bad as they aren't that close to those values (the 12v is 4v off).


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

So I sort of made a thread about newer high end coolers. If it is interfering with this one I'll stop it, but I just thought it was cool at the time.


----------



## Swiftdeathz

@Zippyduda those volts are definitely way off. Try checking with other software or looking in the BIOS. Also if you have a multimeter, you can also test the voltages coming from the molex connectors.

You generally can go +/- 5 or 10%, higher/lower than that and something might be off with the PSU.
Quote:


> voltage tolerance for 3.3v, 5v, and 12v is +/- 5%
> 12v can be between 11.4v and 12.6v
> 5v can be between 4.75v and 5.25v
> 3.3v can be between 3.135v and 3.465v


The 5v isn't that far off, the 12v though is waaaaay off.


----------



## Tator Tot

The voltage tolerance for the +12v lines is +/-5%
The -12v line is 10%


----------



## Swiftdeathz

I stand corrected then. So it's 5% +/- for all 3 voltages? (3.3v, 5v, 12v)


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swiftdeathz;15066153*
> I stand corrected then. So it's 5% +/- for all 3 voltages? (3.3v, 5v, 12v)


& 5vSB.
Then 10% for the -12v


----------



## Zippyduda

Checked my +12v today. It's got a bit better and is sitting at 9.06.

I'll turn my PC off now and replace the 12v cable. Edit: Done that now. No difference in the value even though I did feel the pins go in a little further. Hmmm :/


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zippyduda;15068104*
> Checked my +12v today. It's got a bit better and is sitting at 9.06.
> 
> I'll turn my PC off now and replace the 12v cable. Edit: Done that now. No difference in the value even though I did feel the pins go in a little further. Hmmm :/


Don't trust the Software; it's wrong.

If your rig was running at 9.06v it wouldn't turn on.


----------



## Zippyduda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;15068388*
> Don't trust the Software; it's wrong.
> 
> If your rig was running at 9.06v it wouldn't turn on.


Fair enough. I'm guessing the only true test is by using a multimeter?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zippyduda;15069580*
> Fair enough. I'm guessing the only true test is by using a multimeter?


DMM or any other hardware that can measure voltage accurately; Yup.


----------



## uyas

i have a question....my case is CM690 II plus(white)...i want to buy 2 fan (1 front and 1 back) the front is 140mm and the back side is 120mm....what should i buy?no LED is doesn't matter,silent and good air flow...thx


----------



## Shadowclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brother Jones;15056191*
> ehume and Shadowclock, I registered this evening to provide a general thank you to everyone here for the wealth of information these posts provide, but I also wanted to thank you in particular. Shadowclock, the OP is a fantastic resource, and ehume, the testing information in your signature, and the general air cooling observations in your posts, have been a huge help as I wrestled with cooling decisions for a new build (still quite modest at this point but I had previously been completely unfamiliar with air cooling).
> 
> So many thanks to both of you, and to the other posters on these forums!


You're welcome. Glad this guide is still able to help the community even though I haven't put the effort OCN deserves into keeping it updated as of late.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uyas;15069717*
> i have a question....my case is CM690 II plus(white)...i want to buy 2 fan (1 front and 1 back) the front is 140mm and the back side is 120mm....what should i buy?no LED is doesn't matter,silent and good air flow...thx


Review the fan section of my guide. It is still very relevant today. It is completely up to your own choice on what you want after checking out the stats and specifics that are listed for each fan. Yate Loon and Scythe both make 140mm versions of the listed fans and they work very well.
__________________________
Special thanks again to Tator and Ehume for continuing to support the Air Cooling community through this thread!


----------



## MINE

Hi , i'm getting a 2nd blademaster for my hyper 212 when it come in , is this worth the extra money or no? Also does it come with the bracket to attach to the heatsink? If not where can i get one and what is this call?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MINE;15106937*
> Hi , i'm getting a 2nd blademaster for my hyper 212 when it come in , is this worth the extra money or no? Also does it come with the bracket to attach to the heatsink? If not where can i get one and what is this call?


Not worth the extra money.


----------



## cyclometric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;15106951*
> Not worth the extra money.


(re: investing in a 2nd Blade Master...)

I am so pleased with the performance of my CM Hyper 212+ with just the single stock Blade Master fan on there that I am not sure I will be able to use the 2 barebones GT2150's for when they arrive! Had been planning to put them on the Hyper in Push/Pull and probably will try, just to measure the difference, if any, but really not needing any more cooling unless I want to OC higher or 24/7.


----------



## RussianJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MINE;15106937*
> Hi , i'm getting a 2nd blademaster for my hyper 212 when it come in , is this worth the extra money or no? Also does it come with the bracket to attach to the heatsink? If not where can i get one and what is this call?


Had a second blademaster on my 212+ back when I was on air, only saw a 1C temp drop. NOT worth the extra noise.


----------



## MINE

Found the answer thanks guys.


----------



## WolfenWind

Hey guys I have a question. I recently bought the Noctua S12Bs and have them mounted so that they sandwich a corsair H50 mounted on the rear. For both fans the arrow is pointing towards the back and their sticker sides are also pointed towards the back.

Yet somehow when I measure with my hand I feel the airflow going into my case rather than out. Help? Thanks


----------



## cyclometric

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WolfenWind*


Hey guys I have a question. I recently bought the Noctua S12Bs and have them mounted so that they sandwich a corsair H50 mounted on the rear. For both fans the arrow is pointing towards the back and their sticker sides are also pointed towards the back.

Yet somehow when I measure with my hand I feel the airflow going into my case rather than out. Help? Thanks


Most fans have arrows like these, but even if not, you can usually detect the airflow by feeling both sides with the fan running @ full RPM. I've made the mistake of mounting fans on both sides of a rad and then not being able to see the direction because they were tucked inside fan shrouds -- so good idea to check before mounting.










The blue "air flow" arrow shows which way the air flows, and in most _cases _(pun intended) mount the fan both in front and back so the arrows point from front to back. (i.e. front intake, rear exhaust). The orange arrow "rotation" shows you which way the blades spin. If you have a push/pull setup the fans should be moving air in one direction only, thru the fins of the rad or heatsink.

With most fans @ full speed, you can tell which way the airflows by feeling both sides. I've mounted fans without checking and if it's hard to see the spinning blades thru the case, it can be difficult to tell.


----------



## ehume

The S12B is a standard fan. It's struts are on the output side.

BTW - Noctua designed those to be case fans - good for cfm, not static pressure (it designed the P12's for greater static pressure, to which I can attest). So if you're getting puzzling results, it may be that these fans just can't push much air through a rad.


----------



## armourcore9brker

Hello,

I am building an APU rig and I've run into a problem with the cooling.
So I an using this board:

  Asus mITX With this CPU cooler: Link
I'm using this case: Link

The clearance that the case gives a CPU cooler is around 55mm. I wasn't thinking and got a 100w model APU which is why I had to get the cooler. The problem is that the cooler, when facing the AMD way, blocks either the PCI-e slot, or it runs into the VRM heatsink making it so that it won't fit.

There are a few options that I have figured will work for solving this issue:
1) Buy a new Heatsink
2) Trim down the VRM cooling fins.
3) Manufacture a new mount bracket that will allow the cooler to face 90 degrees.

If:
1) What other 1.5u heatsinks can cool a 100W cpu without sounding like a jet engine?
2) Would trimming the fins on the VRMs have any major effects?
3) Where could I find the exact measurements for the socket area to make a new bracket and what would be some recommendations for it?

I was kinda leaning towards #3 just because I have the tools and the experience cutting metal like this. Just wish to know some pros/cons of each decision, which would be better to do, and any other choices I have that I overlooked.

Thanks a lot in advanced!


----------



## Grimloque

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WolfenWind*


Hey guys I have a question. I recently bought the Noctua S12Bs and have them mounted so that they sandwich a corsair H50 mounted on the rear. For both fans the arrow is pointing towards the back and their sticker sides are also pointed towards the back.

Yet somehow when I measure with my hand I feel the airflow going into my case rather than out. Help? Thanks


The air you feel is probably blowback from the air hitting the radiator.

In almost all fans the side with the mounting strut is the side the air blows out of. Check the pic below. The side with the sticker usually.


----------



## lagittaja

Hopefully this is right thread to ask this, don't feel like creating new one..
I'm thinking about a better cooler for my htpc rig (not sig)
Currently it's housed in a Compucase 6T18BS (..) and the cooler is a Arctic Freezer 7 Pro Rev2.

I am upgrading the htpc on december:
Gigabyte's am3+ matx mobo + phenom ii x4 965be + 2x2gb ddr3 1600 cl6

And I would like to replace the cooler. I will be overclocking the processor as much as I can.
I was looking at Zalman CNPS coolers, 9900NT and 9900MAX
Are they any better?
Atleast the fan is bigger (92mm vs 120/135mm and they're both heavier (590g vs 730/755g)
And which of those two is better ?
NT would cost 38 euros and MAX would cost 45 euros.
I would think the latter would atleast be more quiet (120mm vs 135mm)

Any input guys ?

Sent from my overclocked HTC Desire running Cool3D AceS v3


----------



## GameBoy

Question:

If you have a Heatsink with fins that aren't too tightly packed (i.e. Megahalems/Hyper 212+) would two lower RPM fans (1200-1400RPM) in push-pull be able to perform as well as one single higher RPM fan (1800-2000RPM)?


----------



## Tator Tot

Yes.


----------



## GameBoy

Thanks.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

http://www.overclock.net/online-deals/1159689-frys-corsair-h100-89-99-a.html

At $90, is this a good deal? The shipping is almost $13 is why I'm asking. For that price wouldn't I be able to get a Silver Arrow with faster shipping?

Also, how would I fit this into an HAF X?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl;15576828*
> http://www.overclock.net/online-deals/1159689-frys-corsair-h100-89-99-a.html
> 
> At $90, is this a good deal? The shipping is almost $13 is why I'm asking. For that price wouldn't I be able to get a Silver Arrow with faster shipping?
> 
> Also, how would I fit this into an HAF X?


Get the Silver Arrow.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;15577400*
> get the silver arrow.


+1


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Thanks. Especially to ehume who answered this in two different threads.


----------



## Parish_Rane

HAF 932. Would removing the side fan and then modding the case for 3 230mm fants on the front affect temps much? Anyone tried this before?


----------



## shad0wfax

Thank you OP for posting this thread. You helped me choose a quality air-cooling fan for my system and I'm very pleased with the results. (I went with the Venomous-X RT)


----------



## chinesethunda

modding it for lots of big fans might help, but i doubt you will see too much of a change. you would probably see better gpu temps tho if you had a big fan on the side blowing directly to your gpu


----------



## lagittaja

New cooler for my 2500K arrived today. I'll be transferring the current antec 620 on to my GTX470.
The cooler I ordered is Thermalright True Spirit (120mm version)
What I am wondering about is could I possibly run this passive since I have a rather mild oc on my 2500K ([email protected])
But the fins are rather tightly packed on this so that is why I'm asking.
Wouldn't like to ruin the look of this purrrty heatsink with a bulky GT








And then there is the fact that I have the antec 620 radiator mounted at the rear fan slot like this so the TS will get air flow, but I have no idea how much heat that 470 is going to put out. If the 470 puts out too much heat, which I think it will, I will reverse the airflow so the radiator will suck the air from the cpu through the radiator and out the case.
note, I will remove the transparent fan frame from the radiator so the TS actually fits there and also because a) it looks stupid b) performance difference nill c) it looks stupid d) did I already say it looks stupid?


Oh geez, so confuzzled how packed it's going to be at that area with the TS, with the 620 hoses running up to the 470..








E: Oh wow, now I realized how pain in the arse it will be to mount the TS and/or 620 rad. If I have the 620 radiator mounted first, I don't think I'll have easy access to the screw off the TS to tighten it. If I have the TS mounted first, I don't think I'll have the space to mount the 620. Oh my lord, too much stuff to thinkzor aaargh gotta wait till I have the computer in front of me (after next weekend) before I try to think of anything lmao


----------



## shad0wfax

So I added a second Thermalright 1300 fan to augment the 1300 fan that came stock with my VenomousX-RT.

Noise barely changed at all and cooling improved significantly. I can run my 2500K all-out at 4.7GHz and 1.344Vcore 24/7 folding and won't break 74C and my system stays silent. Even Intel Burn Test caps out at 79C.

I'm very happy with the push-pull on these quiet fans.

And to answer the post above, about running a 2500K at stock settings with a passive cooler, if you have enough case air-flow it will probably work alright but I'd test it out very carefully. You might be fine under normal loads and stabilize at 60C or something but there's always the chance that you could get just enough heat output with some applications going that it turns into a run-away thermal and you approach your TJMax.

I know that I played around with passive cooling at stock speeds and low voltages with my specific heat sink and it worked fine, even in Prime95 but Intel Burn Test would have toasted it if I didn't kill the process once I hit 85C (and it was still climbing).

There are some very low-noise 120mm fans that you could consider which are quite slim and I'd suggest considering them rather than trying passive cooling on that CPU.


----------



## newbrevolution

HI everyone,
I am trying to pick between two coolers but am unsure which would be the best buy. Plus I am worried about clearance and didn't find any definite information regarding that.

*Coolers:*
COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO
COOLER MASTER V6 GT

*It will be going on this mobo:*
ASUS SABERTOOTH P67 (REV 3.0) LGA 1155

*With this RAM:*
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB)

*Going in this case:* (Forgot this the first time...having on of those days..)
COOLER MASTER CM Storm Series Trooper

If anyone see's any clearance issues your input would be greatly appreciated.

If curious the CPU will be a i7 - 2700k

Thank you

Also if someone has a better suggestion for a cooler I am all ears.


----------



## chinesethunda

did you already buy the ram? because if not I would get lower profile ram, if so then nvm

if you have money for the cm v6 gt then you might as well get a NZXT Havik instead, it performs better than the v6 gt

or you could get a nh d14 or silver arrow if you have the money


----------



## newbrevolution

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> did you already buy the ram? because if not I would get lower profile ram, if so then nvm
> if you have money for the cm v6 gt then you might as well get a NZXT Havik instead, it performs better than the v6 gt
> or you could get a nh d14 or silver arrow if you have the money


I have not made any purchases as of yet. I am gathering information at this point and will begin the purchase process in March or April. I am in no rush as my 1366 machine works just fine. Did you have a suggestion for the RAM. There is only two other 16GB (2x8GB) kits I see that have shorter heatsinks.

Crucial Ballistix sport 16GB (2 x 8GB)
and
GeIL Black Dragon 16GB (2 x 8GB) <-- I do not prefer this though

Also, I prefer not to have ram in all four slots and as I don't need 16GB I want more then 8GB. I do web design, database work, some gaming, and run 3 monitors. So I like to have that buffer zone. Are you seeing the G.Skill I picked out not fitting at all or are you just suggesting not to use it??? What does everyone think of the CM Hyper 212 Evo? Reviews looked very good for it plus the other 212 was a raging hit.

To add one more thing, I will intitial OC this system but just to see how it performs, nothing major, and then bring it back to stock clocks. My 1366, Jango, I only had 1GHz OC'd and the RAM + GPU had a mild OC. That is all back to stock now though.


----------



## chinesethunda

for what you do, 8gb of ram is perfectly fine. you could always just get a 2x4gb ram set and then see how much of it you actually use. You said yourself you don't need 16gbs of ram so why waste the money? The Gskill ram you picked out has higher heat sinks that pretty much eliminates many coolers due to its higher heat spreaders, most ram nowadays are 1.65V or lower and have no actual need for the heat spreaders, they are simply there for marketing.

As for the Hyper 212 Evo, it is a really good cooler, it is an upgrade of the Hyper 212+ which I have and it is really good. depending on how much you plan to OC, it is perfect, if you want to go to a higher OC or even lower temps, then you can get a better cooler. Let us know your budget and how much you plan to OC we can help you more to decide which is best.


----------



## newbrevolution

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> for what you do, 8gb of ram is perfectly fine. you could always just get a 2x4gb ram set and then see how much of it you actually use. You said yourself you don't need 16gbs of ram so why waste the money? The Gskill ram you picked out has higher heat sinks that pretty much eliminates many coolers due to its higher heat spreaders, most ram nowadays are 1.65V or lower and have no actual need for the heat spreaders, they are simply there for marketing.
> As for the Hyper 212 Evo, it is a really good cooler, it is an upgrade of the Hyper 212+ which I have and it is really good. depending on how much you plan to OC, it is perfect, if you want to go to a higher OC or even lower temps, then you can get a better cooler. Let us know your budget and how much you plan to OC we can help you more to decide which is best.


I apologize, I forgot to add one key thing I do where the RAM is necessary. I run VM's, I like to run lots of VM's for testing purposes plus playing with thin environments. I have been using VMplayer but also have a V-Sphere and 2008R2 servers managed by Hyper-V. As of now I am running a Domain and Web server but have been playing with a media server. Just haven't decided on all the details yet. I do agree though I may be able to get away with the 8GB most of the time but when I need more then 8GB I will need it now and not later. I have 12GB in Jango and part of the reason I did this last year was in anticipation of knowing I was replacing it. That will turn into a thin client server of sorts, also haven't worked out the fine details as I am obviously not ready yet. So the 16GB is also with the idea that eventually it will be needed, if not right away.

Well like I said suggest me a brand of memory then. I do prefer to buy quality as I do not like to replace parts because I went cheap, I do understand though that even quality parts can be DOA or fall apart as well. As for how much OC'ing...it won't be much like I said I do it just to try it then back it off after about a month. If it doesn't work to well or I am uncomfortable with the temps I just won't bother. Took me awhile to get Jango 1GHz over. Now from what you said about the 212 Evo it seems like that would work well for me. I imagine it takes less space according to the figures which means I could get different sticks in the PC. Also I use a Hyper N 520 with those huge Corsair Vengeance sticks in Jango.

I will PM you my build it may clear up more questions.


----------



## ehume

G.Skill ECO 2x4GB

G.Skill value series 2x4GB


----------



## newbrevolution

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> G.Skill ECO 2x4GB
> G.Skill value series 2x4GB


Thanks for the input but those are 4GB sticks and I don't want to fill all the slots. But I got part of my answer after some more search and am waiting for CM to reply with the last bit of information I need. I was going to go with the NZXT Havik, suggested by chinesethunda, but found a person that with the same setup (different speed of ram but the RipjawsX series) as I am planing and he said there was clearance issues with the first slot. So when I hear back I will post so other know of clearance issues if there are any.


----------



## ChristianUshuaia

sub, rep+1 nice guide ill enjoy this reading!.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Is the SB-E really just going to be better for bigger chips (like SB-E)? I ask because the heatpipes at the edge don't look like they would touch a smaller chip (like regular Sandy).

If it's actually better all around and/or for all chips then I think I'll get it.


----------



## magic8ball88

Okay I need help. I've decided it's time to upgrade my CPU cooler. As much as I love the looks of my stock cooler its time to go









I have no idea what I want though. I'm all over the board. I've considered everything from the cm 212+ to the xspc rs360. I like the idea of a 5.0ghz overclock but it's really not nessisary (is it? How much of a real world performance increase would I see from 4.2 --> 5.0?) all I really want is 4.5 (but more would be cool!)

Obviously the less I spend the better, but I do want to be able to actually run prime95 (something I can't do now)

I also don't want a gigantic air cooler hanging off my motherboard. I don't like the idea of all that weight and I don't like the looks. Because of that I've been considering an h100 (nice compromise between a full blown wc loop and high end air cooling)

And no matter what cooler I get I will be putting antec tricool fans on to match my case.

If you read that thank you and if you have any input I will love you forever lol.


----------



## chinesethunda

actually getting to 5ghz is going to be difficult because some just can't get that high without a high voltage. 4.5 is more than enough. I personally have an rs360 but if your case has good air flow a hyper 212+ will do just fine, but if you want to cool well then nzxt havik will cool really well as well.


----------



## magic8ball88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> actually getting to 5ghz is going to be difficult because some just can't get that high without a high voltage. 4.5 is more than enough. I personally have an rs360 but if your case has good air flow a hyper 212+ will do just fine, but if you want to cool well then nzxt havik will cool really well as well.


I don't have a lot of faith in my 2600k. I don't think I got one of those awesome chips that can get 5.0 ghz @ 1.4 volts. I would however like to see what I can get! And I have seen people getting close to 5.0ghz with a 2500k and a 212. I can tell that the 2500k overclocks better, but how much better?


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

NZXT Havik is pretty darn good, but I do believe the Thermalright True Spirit 140 is cheaper and just as good. The True doesn't come with two fans, but the with the price different you should be able to get one and keep it cheaper.

At the resolution you're playing/using, a bump from 4.5GHz to 5GHz wouldn't do a lot. At higher resolutions you end up needing more graphical power than CPU power.
_However_, I think you should still go for it because...
THIS
IS
OCN!







+


----------



## magic8ball88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*
> 
> NZXT Havik is pretty darn good, but I do believe the Thermalright True Spirit 140 is cheaper and just as good. The True doesn't come with two fans, but the with the price different you should be able to get one and keep it cheaper.
> At the resolution you're playing/using, a bump from 4.5GHz to 5GHz wouldn't do a lot. At higher resolutions you end up needing more graphical power than CPU power.
> _However_, I think you should still go for it because...
> THIS
> IS
> OCN!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +


I really worry about something that big hanging off my motherboard. Does it have any support at all? I was worried about my graphics cards hanging off but at least they are secured to my case with screws.

That brings up another point too, I would like to be able to move my computer. It's not like I plan on taking it every where but I worry about walking with it and then having the weight snap my motherboard. That's another reason I kinda want to get an H100. But can you safely transport a water cooling loop like that? Ugh! Picking PC components is always such a big deal for me lol I'm sorry.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

No biggie.









The heatsinks, no matter how HUEG, are secured with a metal backplate and bracket. They're meant to be able to hold _at least_ the amount the heatsink weighs. You should always be careful, anyway, so being as careful as you normally would be should be fine when moving your computer around.

The H100...is overpriced and loud. Again when moving something like that you would have to be careful. The H100 wouldn't break or snap the motherboard (unless you're the Hulk and enjoy playing tennis with it), however the hoses could mess up and have the water/coolant leak.

What I'm trying to say (I think) is to not worry as much as you're worrying right now.







+


----------



## magic8ball88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*
> 
> No biggie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The heatsinks, no matter how HUEG, are secured with a metal backplate and bracket. They're meant to be able to hold _at least_ the amount the heatsink weighs. You should always be careful, anyway, so being as careful as you normally would be should be fine when moving your computer around.
> The H100...is overpriced and loud. Again when moving something like that you would have to be careful. The H100 wouldn't break or snap the motherboard (unless you're the Hulk and enjoy playing tennis with it), however the hoses could mess up and have the water/coolant leak.
> What I'm trying to say (I think) is to not worry as much as you're worrying right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +


I've seen this infamous backplate you speak of in YouTube videos. I just honestly don't understand what purpose it serves! Doesn't it just attach to the back of the motherboard anyway? I wish the intel cooler was better look how nice it flows with the rest of my computer!


----------



## croy

sup guys. i have a Twin Frozr card that blows hot air above the card instead of the back. and i have my side panel fan as intake. would it be better if i make the side panel fan as a exhaust fan? thanks.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

More people put up videos to complain about the backplate breaking (the motherboard) or being broken than people who say, "Hey, look at my awesome cooler! Everything works like a charm!"
Most of the time the people who get mad about it being broken...have broken it themselves or put it on incorrectly.

There is a *huge* following for coolers like the Thermalright Silver Arrow and Noctua NH-D14, and those are both quite a bit heavier/bigger than the True or the Havik that we recommended. You shouldn't have any problems and if you do, you can go to the clubs that are right here on OCN; you can even come back to this page.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *croy*
> 
> sup guys. i have a Twin Frozr card that blows hot air above the card instead of the back. and i have my side panel fan as intake. would it be better if i make the side panel fan as a exhaust fan? thanks.


No. Just make sure to have a little bit more intake than exhaust, and then take the PCIe slot brackets off of the back of the Antec 600 you have. You don't have to take out all of them, but enough that you have a little bit of extra airflow out of the back of the case. That side panel fan ensures you always have cool air on the card so don't make it exhaust.

On a side note, if that top 200mm fan is exhaust right now, it wouldn't be a bad idea to make it intake. I have my 200mm top fan as intake and it works pretty well. It lowered the CPU temps by a couple degrees Celsius.


----------



## Heysunk

Hello, I've got two Blade Master 120mm fans installed in my case. (http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/product.php?product_id=2945)
I have installed them by splitting a 3,5 inch cable into a 4 pin with this: http://www.kjell.com/images/Product_130399790129313259/product/1/strom-y-kabel-3-5-och-5-25-
I have hooked the 4 pin cable up to a card which splits that to multiple 3 pin connections. I am wondering if this will prevent me from controlling the fans and if so what rpm they will be operating at by default. (min,max etc)

Thanks


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heysunk*
> 
> Hello, I've got two Blade Master 120mm fans installed in my case. ()
> I have installed them by splitting a 3,5 inch cable into a 4 pin with this: http://www.kjell.com/images/Product_130399790129313259/product/1/strom-y-kabel-3-5-och-5-25-
> I have hooked the 4 pin cable up to a card which splits that to multiple 3 pin connections. I am wondering if this will prevent me from controlling the fans and if so what rpm they will be operating at by default. (min,max etc)
> 
> Thanks


PWM only comes 4-pin. You need this.


----------



## croy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*
> 
> No. Just make sure to have a little bit more intake than exhaust, and then take the PCIe slot brackets off of the back of the Antec 600 you have. You don't have to take out all of them, but enough that you have a little bit of extra airflow out of the back of the case. That side panel fan ensures you always have cool air on the card so don't make it exhaust.
> On a side note, if that top 200mm fan is exhaust right now, it wouldn't be a bad idea to make it intake. I have my 200mm top fan as intake and it works pretty well. It lowered the CPU temps by a couple degrees Celsius.


my GPU doesn't really blow air at the back of my case. i don't feel any air coming out from the back of the card. and i don't think that making my 200mm fan as intake is a good idea. i live in a place that dust comes real quick lol. but thank you.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *croy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*
> 
> No. Just make sure to have a little bit more intake than exhaust, and then take the PCIe slot brackets off of the back of the Antec 600 you have. You don't have to take out all of them, but enough that you have a little bit of extra airflow out of the back of the case. That side panel fan ensures you always have cool air on the card so don't make it exhaust.
> On a side note, if that top 200mm fan is exhaust right now, it wouldn't be a bad idea to make it intake. I have my 200mm top fan as intake and it works pretty well. It lowered the CPU temps by a couple degrees Celsius.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my GPU doesn't really blow air at the back of my case. i don't feel any air coming out from the back of the card. and i don't think that making my 200mm fan as intake is a good idea. i live in a place that dust comes real quick lol. but thank you.
Click to expand...

Get a dust filter...or panty hose









Then you won't have to worry about dust, and you'll have positive pressure so the air _will_ go out of the back of the card/computer.


----------



## kevindd992002

Is there a way to connect my TY-140's PWM line to the PWM pin of my MSI Hawk video card without disabling the stock fans of that card?

I hope you guys can help me here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1224400/msi-hawk-gtx-560-ti-pwm-signal

Thanks.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Is there a way to connect my TY-140's PWM line to the PWM pin of my MSI Hawk video card without disabling the stock fans of that card?
> 
> I hope you guys can help me here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1224400/msi-hawk-gtx-560-ti-pwm-signal
> 
> Thanks.


I responded on your thread, though here is probably another good place for it, so BUMP.


----------



## croy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*
> 
> Get a dust filter...or panty hose
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you won't have to worry about dust, and you'll have positive pressure so the air _will_ go out of the back of the card/computer.


lol.. i'll think about it. thanks


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *croy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*
> 
> Get a dust filter...or panty hose
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you won't have to worry about dust, and you'll have positive pressure so the air _will_ go out of the back of the card/computer.
> 
> 
> 
> lol.. i'll think about it. thanks
Click to expand...

Welcome


----------



## Naota

Hi guys, I'm having trouble planning an air cooling solution for my new build, I'm doing it inside an Aerocool X-Predator case I have spare, it can mount fans pretty much anywhere if anyone has some suggestions.









It comes with two big 230mm fans which aren't too good... 750RPM, 49CFM, 27dB. I was thinking of replacing the front one with a BitFenix Spectre Pro 230mm, 900 RPM, 156.27CFM, 25.6dB, big difference! it's to penetrate the dust filter they stuck all over the front, and leave the crappy Aerocool fan in for positive pressure as exhaust on top?

Other than that I'm having trouble, not sure which fan to put at the back (140mm) as exhaust, can anyone recommend a good one? I can also mount a 140mm on the bottom and either a 200mm on the side or 4x140mm if that isn't over kill.

Also if anyone could recommend a good 120mm fan (or two) I can use on my CM 212 Evo instead of the stock fan? I would use Noctua but why the hell are they so ugly!









This build will have a 2500k btw, I'll overclock it later when my air cool is decent.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naota*
> 
> Hi guys, I'm having trouble planning an air cooling solution for my new build, I'm doing it inside an Aerocool X-Predator case I have spare, it can mount fans pretty much anywhere if anyone has some suggestions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It comes with two big 230mm fans which aren't too good... 750RPM, 49CFM, 27dB. I was thinking of replacing the front one with a BitFenix Spectre Pro 230mm, 900 RPM, 156.27CFM, 25.6dB, big difference! it's to penetrate the dust filter they stuck all over the front, and leave the crappy Aerocool fan in for positive pressure as exhaust on top?
> 
> Other than that I'm having trouble, not sure which fan to put at the back (140mm) as exhaust, can anyone recommend a good one? I can also mount a 140mm on the bottom and either a 200mm on the side or 4x140mm if that isn't over kill.
> 
> Also if anyone could recommend a good 120mm fan (or two) I can use on my CM 212 Evo instead of the stock fan? I would use Noctua but why the hell are they so ugly!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This build will have a 2500k btw, I'll overclock it later when my air cool is decent.


How many graphics cards do you have, and what kind? Are you looking for something silent, all out chilly inside the case, or a happy medium?
Also, I would just leave or put a 140mm fan at the back.

http://www.frozencpu.com/search.html?mv_profile=keyword_search&mv_session_id=4Zn8geuQ&searchspec=scythe+gentle+typhoon&go.x=0&go.y=0
Any of the Scythe Gentle Typhoons would be fantastic in push/pull for your 212 Evo.


----------



## Naota

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*
> 
> How many graphics cards do you have, and what kind? Are you looking for something silent, all out chilly inside the case, or a happy medium?
> Also, I would just leave or put a 140mm fan at the back.
> http://www.frozencpu.com/search.html?mv_profile=keyword_search&mv_session_id=4Zn8geuQ&searchspec=scythe+gentle+typhoon&go.x=0&go.y=0
> Any of the Scythe Gentle Typhoons would be fantastic in push/pull for your 212 Evo.


Thanks for the reply!








Anything around 25db is acceptable with me, the case comes with 2 fan controller knobs I can connect 6 fans up to. I haven't decided on a card yet but I won't be going sli or crossfire.
I'm liking the Typhoons, a lot of people are talking about them, I think I may just get some.

I was looking at the Cougar fans, really good stats, 70cfm @ 800rpm with 17.9db? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835553002
Not sure they would attach to the evo though...

Is a bottom mounted fan any good? I've never tried it, on paper looks like a good way of getting air past the drive cages which blocks the front 230mm.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naota*
> 
> Thanks for the reply!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anything around 25db is acceptable with me, the case comes with 2 fan controller knobs I can connect 6 fans up to. I haven't decided on a card yet but I won't be going sli or crossfire.
> I'm liking the Typhoons, a lot of people are talking about them, I think I may just get some.
> 
> I was looking at the Cougar fans, really good stats, 70cfm @ 800rpm with 17.9db? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835553002
> Not sure they would attach to the evo though...
> 
> Is a bottom mounted fan any good? I've never tried it, on paper looks like a good way of getting air past the drive cages which blocks the front 230mm.


I imagine you can use those Cougar fans. However, I'm thinking the 70CFM is when it's at 1500RPM, which would mean it was quite a bit louder. It's probably only 17.9dB at 800RPM, which means the CFM would be cut down from 70CFM. The Scythe GT's have excellent static pressure though and that's what you want with a heatsink I believe.

Also, make that top 230mm fan you have intake. It can lower the CPU temps because you're not sucking all the air away from it before it has a chance to cool.
Is there a side 200/230mm fan, as well? That would help with a hot card, though you may only need one or two 120/140mm fans on the side instead. Depends on what you want.
I also like the idea of the BitFenix Spectre Pro you were talking about. Sounds like it would be quieter, but with more airflow. By the way, all you need to do for that little bit of extra air through the front is to take out all of the HDD holders that you don't need. I think the only reason you would need that bottom HDD cage fan would be if you had _a lot_ of hard drives constantly going or if you had a warmer room (or both.)


----------



## Naota

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*
> 
> I imagine you can use those Cougar fans. However, I'm thinking the 70CFM is when it's at 1500RPM, which would mean it was quite a bit louder. It's probably only 17.9dB at 800RPM, which means the CFM would be cut down from 70CFM. The Scythe GT's have excellent static pressure though and that's what you want with a heatsink I believe.
> Also, make that top 230mm fan you have intake. It can lower the CPU temps because you're not sucking all the air away from it before it has a chance to cool.
> Is there a side 200/230mm fan, as well? That would help with a hot card, though you may only need one or two 120/140mm fans on the side instead. Depends on what you want.
> I also like the idea of the BitFenix Spectre Pro you were talking about. Sounds like it would be quieter, but with more airflow. By the way, all you need to do for that little bit of extra air through the front is to take out all of the HDD holders that you don't need. I think the only reason you would need that bottom HDD cage fan would be if you had _a lot_ of hard drives constantly going or if you had a warmer room (or both.)


Thanks I'll try the top as an intake, I'll see if I can mount it closer to the right of the hsf instead of the left where I know the x-predator has mounts, I'll drill some if it doesn't.








Yes I can mount either 4x 140mm fans or 1x 200mm on the side panel, I think the 230mm fans have 200mm mounts, I'll have to check that.
I was thinking of trying 140mm fans with 120mm mounts on the 212 Evo cooler instead of 120mm fans, it's a little tricky finding such fans though, the Thermalright TY-140 is all I can find. 74cfm, 1300rpm, 21db, ugly as sin though.









Know of any such fans anyone?


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

How about these Deep Cool fans?









If you don't like those, I think I would still recommend the Scythe Gentle Typhoons over all the others. I think there are Scythe Kaze Maru 2's though. However, I don't know much about them. Sorry







+


----------



## Naota

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Samurai Batgirl*
> 
> If you don't like those, I think I would still recommend the Scythe Gentle Typhoons over all the others. I think there are Scythe Kaze Maru 2's though. However, I don't know much about them. Sorry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +


Thanks for help again much appreciated!








I know I said I didn't like Noctua but I think I will get two of these if they're as good as listed: Noctua NF-F12 PWM 120mm.
300 - 1500rpm, 74.3 ~ 93.4 CFM, 18.6 ~ 22.4 dB.

Cost almost twice as the Gentle Typhoons though.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naota*
> 
> Thanks for help again much appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know I said I didn't like Noctua but I think I will get two of these if they're as good as listed: Noctua NF-F12 PWM 120mm.
> 300 - 1500rpm, 74.3 ~ 93.4 CFM, 18.6 ~ 22.4 dB.
> 
> Cost almost twice as the Gentle Typhoons though.


They're PWM, and Noctua is very reliable and awesome. That's why








Welcome. Good luck with everything


----------



## boxwunder13

I am questioning the need of a side fan with my current fan set up and since this is the Air Cooling Question thread I figured I would bring this up here.
When I had my side fan as intake it just sucked dust into my GPU, I don't have a dust filter on it, but it was excessive. My current fan set up has reduced dust and temps overall, but I just am wondering about my side fan at this point, because when I mod my case over summer it may get removed when I put in a window and designs (still a work in progress inside my head haha).

Here is my fan set up as of now;
Front: 200mm intake
Top Front: 120mm intake
Top Rear: 120mm exhaust
Rear: 120mm exhaust
Side: 120mm exhaust
Cooler Master 212 EVO push/pull (new fans on the way with better static pressure







)

My GPU peaks at around 60C with its fans at 75% (with the side fan as exhuast, when it was intake the temps were not much different though, maybe 2-3C)

My CPU never tops 45C when gaming and 50C in Prime95 (OC'd to 3.8 w/ 1.49v, it's a power hungry lil guy)

I have my HDD rack turned in the front and only one HDD in the bottom bay.

I am thinking about adding a 120mm fan behind the DVD drive to give the heat sink some more air, but that will involve trickery with zip ties and I am not sure about that, aesthetic wise.

I have not tested this with the side fan turned off. I just want to know if anyone has run into this dilemma, what did you do about it? Any general thoughts on my fan set up?

Thanks to everyone who takes the time to read this and respond, much appreciated.


----------



## Kornivsky

Hello! I'm looking here for best cooling solution!!! I hope someone will take a look and help me! I'm sorry for quality of pictures!!!

Thanks in advance!!!

*Picture 1*

Intake right to my CPU/MB.

http://www.bildites.lv/viewer.php?file=apsmf6whqeaxueiyak5.jpg

*Picture 2*

Next to my INWIN sign I can place an fan..

http://www.bildites.lv/viewer.php?file=garqp8s3dxmxbaa473kj.jpg

*Picture 3*

220mm fan as intake (tape didnt came with my case).

http://www.bildites.lv/viewer.php?file=p3trq3jm4ioitm3ftlzv.jpg

*Picture 4*

120x120 exhaust

http://www.bildites.lv/viewer.php?file=2ngevoyxx9n4f47orkhb.jpg

*Picture 5*

2 x 120x120 exhaust

http://www.bildites.lv/viewer.php?file=0j70bhsjr0408s88t03.jpg


----------



## gorgando

Does anyone know why a CPU fan connected to molex would spin well on start-up and then stop after that, allowing the CPU to overheat and forcing the PC to shut down? I had it connected to MOBO but was having similar issue. Replaced the fan and still have similar issue.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gorgando*
> 
> Does anyone know why a CPU fan connected to molex would spin well on start-up and then stop after that, allowing the CPU to overheat and forcing the PC to shut down? I had it connected to MOBO but was having similar issue. Replaced the fan and still have similar issue.


That's weird. If it is connected directly to the PSU via a molex then it should spin indefinitely as soon as the system is turned on. If it was connected to PWM, then the start-stop behavior you are experiencing is normal.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gorgando*
> 
> Does anyone know why a CPU fan connected to molex would spin well on start-up and then stop after that, allowing the CPU to overheat and forcing the PC to shut down? I had it connected to MOBO but was having similar issue. Replaced the fan and still have similar issue.


Sounds like a motherboard issue. Or if the Molex is connected directly to the PSU, you may have a PSU issue. You need to post your specs, are probably some pics to fully describe the issue. We know it isn't the fan.


----------



## gorgando

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Sounds like a motherboard issue. Or if the Molex is connected directly to the PSU, you may have a PSU issue. You need to post your specs, are probably some pics to fully describe the issue. We know it isn't the fan.


It is a MSI 880GM-E41 with an AMD Athlon II X2 Dual-Core Processor 245 (2.9 GHz) AM3 and 4GB RAM. The case is an APEX DM-387 Black Steel Micro ATX Media Center / Slim HTPC Computer Case w/ ATX12V Flex 275W Power Supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154087). I just use it as an HTPC and has served me well until the over-heating / fan issue started a couple of weeks ago. Although I did build this machine, I'm pretty much a newb when it comes to hardware.

I also tried multiple molex connections and plugging the fan into the spot on the MOBO reserved for the system fan, neither of which helped.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gorgando*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Sounds like a motherboard issue. Or if the Molex is connected directly to the PSU, you may have a PSU issue. You need to post your specs, are probably some pics to fully describe the issue. We know it isn't the fan.
> 
> 
> 
> It is a MSI 880GM-E41 with an AMD Athlon II X2 Dual-Core Processor 245 (2.9 GHz) AM3 and 4GB RAM. The case is an APEX DM-387 Black Steel Micro ATX Media Center / Slim HTPC Computer Case w/ ATX12V Flex 275W Power Supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154087). I just use it as an HTPC and has served me well until the over-heating / fan issue started a couple of weeks ago. Although I did build this machine, I'm pretty much a newb when it comes to hardware.
> 
> I also tried multiple molex connections and plugging the fan into the spot on the MOBO reserved for the system fan, neither of which helped.
Click to expand...

"multiple molex connections" means the fans were plugged directly into the PSU, right?


----------



## gorgando

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> "multiple molex connections" means the fans were plugged directly into the PSU, right?


I believe so, I'll double check that. If the cable goes to a HD first and then to the fan, would that cause the fan to not get power? I saw there were two open connections and tried them both, but I didn't pay close attention to what it was directly connected to, just assumed that it would get power since it was ultimately connected to the psu. Like I said, I'm a total newb at this







.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gorgando*
> 
> I believe so, I'll double check that. If the cable goes to a HD first and then to the fan, would that cause the fan to not get power? I saw there were two open connections and tried them both, but I didn't pay close attention to what it was directly connected to, just assumed that it would get power since it was ultimately connected to the psu. Like I said, I'm a total newb at this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


No. Molex connectors are actually shorted with each other. Your problem is with your PSU, no doubt.


----------



## gorgando

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> No. Molex connectors are actually shorted with each other. Your problem is with your PSU, no doubt.


So you think replacing the PSU should fix the problem? It just seems odd to me that everything else seems to be powered just fine, and even when the cpu fan is connected to the proper spot on the MOBO, it doesn't spin... I appreciate everyone's help on this!


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gorgando*
> 
> So you think replacing the PSU should fix the problem? It just seems odd to me that everything else seems to be powered just fine, and even when the cpu fan is connected to the proper spot on the MOBO, it doesn't spin... I appreciate everyone's help on this!


Well, I can't say for sure but it's worth a try. Is your PSU still under warranty? It's just that your PSU is connected to the mobo, so it's natural that if your fan has problems when it is directly connected to the PSU then it would also have problems when connected directly to the mobo.

Do you have a voltmeter at hand? You could try measuring the 12V rail and see if the voltage is not fluctuating. Also, you can try removing the PSU from the computer, powering it with the metal short test while the fan is directly connected to one molex connector.

And please fill up your system specs sig so that we can help you better.


----------



## syryanyang

Hey guys, quick question: Scythe Ninja 3 or Thermalright Macho at the same price?
All I want is for the cpu cooler to stay DEAD SILENT when idle. Both of them can work without a fan.


----------



## PontiacGTX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syryanyang*
> 
> Hey guys, quick question: Scythe Ninja 3 or Thermalright Macho at the same price?
> All I want is for the cpu cooler to stay DEAD SILENT when idle. Both of them can work without a fan.


Macho


----------



## doyll

HR-02 is slightly better than Ninja but very close in all respects.
http://www.ixbt.com/cpu/scythe-thermalright-noiseless.shtml


----------



## syryanyang

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> HR-02 is slightly better than Ninja but very close in all respects.
> http://www.ixbt.com/cpu/scythe-thermalright-noiseless.shtml


How do I read this in English?


----------



## bond32

I zip-tied the stock cpu fan to the back cpu bracket. Really did drop my socket temps 8-10 C. I read that in this guide and didn't believe it so I tried it... Great tip!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syryanyang*
> 
> How do I read this in English?


you can use Google webpage translate


----------



## gorgando

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Well, I can't say for sure but it's worth a try. Is your PSU still under warranty? It's just that your PSU is connected to the mobo, so it's natural that if your fan has problems when it is directly connected to the PSU then it would also have problems when connected directly to the mobo.
> 
> Do you have a voltmeter at hand? You could try measuring the 12V rail and see if the voltage is not fluctuating. Also, you can try removing the PSU from the computer, powering it with the metal short test while the fan is directly connected to one molex connector.


It is no longer in warranty. Does it make sense that the PSU would continue to power everything else except for one fan? I guess I don't understand how a PSU picks and chooses what to power. I would have assumed it either powers everything or nothing. I did double-check and the molex connection was directly from the PSU. Unfortunately I do not have a voltmeter (i might be able to borrow one from a friend though). Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "powering it with the metal short test"?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gorgando*
> 
> It is no longer in warranty. Does it make sense that the PSU would continue to power everything else except for one fan? I guess I don't understand how a PSU picks and chooses what to power. I would have assumed it either powers everything or nothing. I did double-check and the molex connection was directly from the PSU. Unfortunately I do not have a voltmeter (i might be able to borrow one from a friend though). Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "powering it with the metal short test"?


No, the PSU cannot distinguish its load from another. It continually supplies +12V and +5V in a molex connection and your fans are drawing a significantly low amperage compared to the PSU's capability so you shouldn't be having any problems.

You can remove the PSU from your computer and power it by shorting (connecting with a metal wire) two specific fins. It's like powering the PSU from the outside of the case without using the power button. Google about this and you'll see a lot of hits.

Hope this helps.


----------



## doyll

If you computer is running with no problems and it's only this fan that is giving you problems it more than likely the fan or the molex connector.


----------



## gorgando

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> No, the PSU cannot distinguish its load from another. It continually supplies +12V and +5V in a molex connection and your fans are drawing a significantly low amperage compared to the PSU's capability so you shouldn't be having any problems.
> 
> You can remove the PSU from your computer and power it by shorting (connecting with a metal wire) two specific fins. It's like powering the PSU from the outside of the case without using the power button. Google about this and you'll see a lot of hits.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> If you computer is running with no problems and it's only this fan that is giving you problems it more than likely the fan or the molex connector.


I have now replaced both the fan and the PSU and the same problem occurs. With the new fan plugged directly into the mobo, which is powered by the new psu, the fan spins for a couple of minutes and then stops, and the CPU overheats. With the new fan connected directly to the mobo with the molex connector, the fan just doesn't spin at all. I'm pulling my hair out!

Does this mean the motherboard has issues? Or that I'm going crazy and missing something obvious?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gorgando*
> 
> I have now replaced both the fan and the PSU and the same problem occurs. With the new fan plugged directly into the mobo, which is powered by the new psu, the fan spins for a couple of minutes and then stops, and the CPU overheats. With the new fan connected directly to the mobo with the molex connector, the fan just doesn't spin at all. I'm pulling my hair out!
> 
> Does this mean the motherboard has issues? Or that I'm going crazy and missing something obvious?


Did you even try what I just suggested earlier using the PSU short test and directly connecting the fan to it? If that works, then your board is most probably the problem. Something in the board is short circuiting the PSU after a few minutes and renders the voltage lines null.


----------



## gorgando

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Did you even try what I just suggested earlier using the PSU short test and directly connecting the fan to it? If that works, then your board is most probably the problem. Something in the board is short circuiting the PSU after a few minutes and renders the voltage lines null.


That sounded complicated and difficult. I thought replacing the PSU would would easier and accomplish the same thing. But I think I get what you're saying. I'll see if I can figure it out or find a vid on youtube to try this. It is pretty consistent that the fan spins until Windows boots now (when connected to mobo). Once Windows loads, the fan stops spinning. I'll also try disconnecting some other components and see what patterns may come up... thanks again!


----------



## gorgando

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Did you even try what I just suggested earlier using the PSU short test and directly connecting the fan to it? If that works, then your board is most probably the problem. Something in the board is short circuiting the PSU after a few minutes and renders the voltage lines null.


OK - I just tried it. I connected the fan directly to the PSU, the PSU plugged into the wall outlet but not into the mobo, and I started up the PSU with a paperclip. The PSU fans spun as expected but the CPU fan that was connected to the PSU via molex connector did not. It kind of "lurched" as if it was going to spin but did not do more than a full revolution before stopping. Weird behavior. Does this mean I need to try a third fan? I don't understand how the mobo could be the issue if the fan won't even spin while connected directly to the PSU. I guess my molex connector that I bought could be bad? Thanks again for any and all help!


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gorgando*
> 
> OK - I just tried it. I connected the fan directly to the PSU, the PSU plugged into the wall outlet but not into the mobo, and I started up the PSU with a paperclip. The PSU fans spun as expected but the CPU fan that was connected to the PSU via molex connector did not. It kind of "lurched" as if it was going to spin but did not do more than a full revolution before stopping. Weird behavior. Does this mean I need to try a third fan? I don't understand how the mobo could be the issue if the fan won't even spin while connected directly to the PSU. I guess my molex connector that I bought could be bad? Thanks again for any and all help!


That's weird indeed. Did you try a different fan model? Or did you try to measure the voltage of the molex connector? 12V and 5V?

Regarding what I said about the mobo, it can short out the PSU when you connect the 24-pin to it but that is very rare.


----------



## gorgando

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> That's weird indeed. Did you try a different fan model? Or did you try to measure the voltage of the molex connector? 12V and 5V?
> 
> Regarding what I said about the mobo, it can short out the PSU when you connect the 24-pin to it but that is very rare.


No, it's the same fan model that I had previously. But the fan worked for 2 years before this issue began... I dont have a way to measure the voltage but my PSU is supposed to output 12V.

At this point does it come down to either the PSU is a dud or the fan is a dud? Even though I've just replaced them both? Or is there any other logical conclusion or something else I can try?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gorgando*
> 
> No, it's the same fan model that I had previously. But the fan worked for 2 years before this issue began... I dont have a way to measure the voltage but my PSU is supposed to output 12V.
> 
> At this point does it come down to either the PSU is a dud or the fan is a dud? Even though I've just replaced them both? Or is there any other logical conclusion or something else I can try?


It is very unlikely that the PSU or the fan is a dud since you've already replaced them both. Are you sure that the power that comes in to the PSU is at rated spec?

When you did the paperclip test, did you totally isolate the PSU cables from the motherboard?


----------



## gorgando

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> It is very unlikely that the PSU or the fan is a dud since you've already replaced them both. Are you sure that the power that comes in to the PSU is at rated spec?
> 
> When you did the paperclip test, did you totally isolate the PSU cables from the motherboard?


Yeah, the PSU cables were 100% isolated from everything, including the motherboard. I'm pretty confident the PSU is the right one, but I'm not sure how I would know for certain. A friend helped me build this initially and neither him nor I have had any issues during the past 2 years until recently when my fan stopped working... The PSU that I bought this week is the exact same model as the original as well...


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gorgando*
> 
> Yeah, the PSU cables were 100% isolated from everything, including the motherboard. I'm pretty confident the PSU is the right one, but I'm not sure how I would know for certain. A friend helped me build this initially and neither him nor I have had any issues during the past 2 years until recently when my fan stopped working... The PSU that I bought this week is the exact same model as the original as well...


No, I mean are you sure that the INPUT (power from the wall socket) of the PSU is at rated spec? I was not referring to the OUTPUT specs of the PSU itself. Basically, are you sure that you're wall socket is providing 110VAC (or 220VAC in my case)? Other than that, I don't know what to suggest anymore, sorry.


----------



## doyll

Try a different fan and different adapter cable. My guess it's one of them.


----------



## gorgando

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> No, I mean are you sure that the INPUT (power from the wall socket) of the PSU is at rated spec? I was not referring to the OUTPUT specs of the PSU itself. Basically, are you sure that you're wall socket is providing 110VAC (or 220VAC in my case)? Other than that, I don't know what to suggest anymore, sorry.


Yeah, I don't think it's the INPUT power. I really appreciate your help. I might have to just take it in somewhere for a diagnostic.


----------



## gorgando

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Try a different fan and different adapter cable. My guess it's one of them.


I've actually been thinking that same thing... I have already replaced the fan so maybe I need to find a different brand or type of fan. And even though the adapter is new, it could possibly have issues....


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gorgando*
> 
> I've actually been thinking that same thing... I have already replaced the fan so maybe I need to find a different brand or type of fan. And even though the adapter is new, it could possibly have issues....


Would be the first time I've seen an adapter be defective.. or a fan for that matter. Sometimes it's these little things that drive us crazy...

Some days we feel like the windshield.









Some days we feel like the bug.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gorgando*
> 
> Yeah, I don't think it's the INPUT power. I really appreciate your help. I might have to just take it in somewhere for a diagnostic.


I don't think it is the problem too but it's worth a try sinc we're in the process of eliminating every variable here.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by gorgando
> 
> Yeah, I don't think it's the INPUT power. I really appreciate your help. I might have to just take it in somewhere for a diagnostic.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think it is the problem too but it's worth a try sinc we're in the process of eliminating every variable here.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's the PSU input power because PSU is running and motherboard is working. PSU is power up just fine and supplying many times more power to other components than the fan can use. But it doesn't hurt to ask.

My money's on adapter or fan being the culprit.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I don't think it's the PSU input power because PSU is running and motherboard is working. PSU is power up just fine and supplying many times more power to other components than the fan can use. But it doesn't hurt to ask.
> 
> My money's on adapter or fan being the culprit.


Yeah, makes sense. I bet mine on the adapter. But I thought he said he directly connected the new fan to the molex cable of the PSU?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Yeah, makes sense. I bet mine on the adapter. But I thought he said he directly connected the new fan to the molex cable of the PSU?


My understanding is gorgando is using a molex to fan adapter to power the fan.


----------



## gorgando

I was finally able to figure this mystery out. Thanks SOOO much for all your help. When my fan died, I bought a replacement fan. Apparently the replacement fan had the same issue that the original fan had developed because when I bought a third fan (a slightly nicer one), it all worked just fine. So the fan was the culprit all the time, *sigh*. Glad to have it working - thanks again!


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gorgando*
> 
> I was finally able to figure this mystery out. Thanks SOOO much for all your help. When my fan died, I bought a replacement fan. Apparently the replacement fan had the same issue that the original fan had developed because when I bought a third fan (a slightly nicer one), it all worked just fine. So the fan was the culprit all the time, *sigh*. Glad to have it working - thanks again!


Now that's some bad luck with the 2nd replacement fan. Glad you got it all sorted.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gorgando*
> 
> I was finally able to figure this mystery out. Thanks SOOO much for all your help. When my fan died, I bought a replacement fan. Apparently the replacement fan had the same issue that the original fan had developed because when I bought a third fan (a slightly nicer one), it all worked just fine. So the fan was the culprit all the time, *sigh*. Glad to have it working - thanks again!


Now that's some bad luck with the 2nd replacement fan. Glad you got it all sorted.


----------



## hfcobra

Alright I have some questions! I am building a new computer here in a couple months and I want to know what the best case fans for air cooling and water cooling are. Right now I have a HAF-X and it moves a lot of air but the problem is is that I'm getting a new case that does not support these massive fans anymore (Corsair 750D) so I am going to need to get some new case fans. I am also looking to cut down on noise a little bit. I don't need it to be absolutely silent but I absolutely do not want it to make more noise than my HAF-X. Right now my HAF has the front bottom fan that came with it, the side fan that came with it, both top fans running, and the back fan as well as the 2 fans on my D14 are the NF-P14's. This is not that loud but it definitely makes the soft sound of moving a lot of air.

The new case has three fans of its own that I can use temporarily until I decide to go water cooling in which I will definitely buy all of one model of fan so that my computer looks good. I need something that has a great static pressure for the rads but also isn't very loud as that is really the whole point of a water cooled setup if you ask me.

Right now I have some Noctua NF-P14's that work well when they need to move air but from what I understand are not the best when it comes to static pressure. Grand total of all the fans I have right now (not including my huge case fans) would be three NF-P14's and one NF-P12. If I need to I don't mind replacing all of these as this next build is all about performance/noise ratio. Also, mixing fan models will not look as good in my opinion so I would like to avoid that.

I will be going for a red/black theme for the new build as well so if they are that color it is a huge plus but that is secondary to performance for sure.

I have read up on some quiet fans and the NF-F12 from Noctua seems to be a really good candidate but I am not well versed on fans. There are so many fans on the market today I figure that it will save me a lot of time if someone who already knows all the models will be able to narrow down my choices considerably.

Thank you!


----------



## ehume

The P in NF-P14 and NF-P12 stands for Pressure. The P fans are designed to produce more static pressure than a thin-bladed fan like the NF-S12 series, which is designed to produce more CFM. But since building this fan, Noctua has gone on to produce the NF-A14 and NF-A15, which are indeed slightly better fans -- quieter, mainly.

As for buying fans, wait until you have that Corsair case running before you make any fan choices. If you really want to add fans, remember that if you can, use a 140mm in every 120mm place. A 120mm fan's blades sweep less than 75% of the available area in a 120x120mm square window. A 140mm fan sweeps all of it, with little going to "waste."

The cheapest good fans are a 1500 RPM descendent of the TR TY-140 fan. But just which one, I will leave to doyll to tell you.

What I will say is that since TY-14x fans are PWM, they can be hooked up to rise and fall with your cooling needs. I love the sound when my fans do that. It's gentle, but it's there.

In any case, buy only PWM fans. The very best are NF-A14's for 140mm screw holes, and NF-A15's for 120mm screw holes. But they are expensive. Others may suit your purpose. And the NF-P14 is a very good fan.

I reviewed the Noctua fans here.


----------



## hfcobra

Thanks! So it seems that the new A15 is slightly better than the P14. Although not by much. I was surprised that the F12 showed no improvement with temps even though it has a significantly higher static pressure. Is static pressure important for a water cooled setup, or should I just get the A15's? I don't really want to keep the fans that corsair provides with the case since they are pretty noisy compared to the fans from Noctua, although I will keep my P14's for sure.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hfcobra*
> 
> Thanks! So it seems that the new A15 is slightly better than the P14. Although not by much. I was surprised that the F12 showed no improvement with temps even though it has a significantly higher static pressure. Is static pressure important for a water cooled setup, or should I just get the A15's? I don't really want to keep the fans that corsair provides with the case since they are pretty noisy compared to the fans from Noctua, although I will keep my P14's for sure.


A14's and A15's have the same blade shape. The differences are differing top speeds and differing frames.

The F12 is 120mm -- the A14 and A15 are 140mm.

The NH-D14 is designed to accommodate moderate static pressure fans -- such as those Noctua make. Right now I've got a review on the Jetflo in the hopper. Bottom line on that fan is that it puts out more than spec. Behind a dust filter it puts out spec -- 95 cfm. Yet with a 30 FPI rad -- the Black Ice GT -- it "only" puts out in the 50's. So if you're going with rads, get a fan with static pressure.

Oh yes, from Vapor's defunct site I learned that pull is better than push for rads.


----------



## hfcobra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> A14's and A15's have the same blade shape. The differences are differing top speeds and differing frames.
> 
> The F12 is 120mm -- the A14 and A15 are 140mm.
> 
> The NH-D14 is designed to accommodate moderate static pressure fans -- such as those Noctua make. Right now I've got a review on the Jetflo in the hopper. Bottom line on that fan is that it puts out more then spec. Behind a dust filter it puts out spec -- 95 cfm. Yet with a 30 FPI rad -- the Black Ice GT -- it "only" puts out in the 50's. So if you're going with rads, get a fan with static pressure.
> 
> Oh yes, from Vapor's defunct site I learned that pull is better than push for rads.


Thank you very much! What fan would you recommend for rads? I know that I would like to own more Noctuas as I am very satisfied with my current fans, I just don't know if there is another option out there since Noctua has just recently been focusing on high static pressure in their fans.


----------



## ehume

I just got my rad, and I have only tested that Jetflo once.

But I recommend you go to the water cooling forum and ask those folks what they would use.

I have some server type 120x38mm fans I have gotten from surplus houses. I also have some San Aces and a Panaflo. If you r-e-a-l-l-y want to push air through a rad, a 38mm fan is the way to go -- unless you have 140mm rads and a bunch of money. Then this is the one to try. But a pair will really cost you.


----------



## hfcobra

Oh I'm not looking to turn my case into a vacuum cleaner lol. I want to have a good static pressure while also maintaining a quiet case. In my opinion water cooling not only gets better temps, but should also give you a quieter build.


----------



## miklkit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I just got my rad, and I have only tested that Jetflo once.
> 
> But I recommend you go to the water cooling forum and ask those folks what they would use.
> 
> I have some server type 120x38mm fans I have gotten from surplus houses. I also have some San Aces and a Panaflo. If you r-e-a-l-l-y want to push air through a rad, a 38mm fan is the way to go -- unless you have 140mm rads and a bunch of money. Then this is the one to try. But a pair will really cost you.


Pfftt. That fan is an overpriced flyweight. If you want real 140mm X 38 fans look to this puppy. 171 CFM @ $17. I have 2 of them on a Silverstone HE01.
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=77923&vpn=FHP%2D141&manufacture=Others


----------



## hfcobra

Those are certainly some extreme fans.


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> Pfftt. That fan is an overpriced flyweight. If you want real 140mm X 38 fans look to this puppy. 171 CFM @ $17. I have 2 of them on a Silverstone HE01.
> http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=77923&vpn=FHP%2D141&manufacture=Others


Heh. Typical overrating. I had that FHP141 and it only pushed 141CFM while being extremely loud. Want a real fan? Buy a san ace!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hfcobra*
> 
> Thank you very much! What fan would you recommend for rads? I know that I would like to own more Noctuas as I am very satisfied with my current fans, I just don't know if there is another option out there since Noctua has just recently been focusing on high static pressure in their fans.


"high" Hell no.


----------



## miklkit

That San Ace is listed at only 117cfm. What does it really put out?

Uhh a Delta fanatic talking about noise?








Seriously, these FHP 141s seem to be getting quieter than they were a few months ago while still turning full rpm. Maybe they are breaking in.


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> That San Ace is listed at only 117cfm. What does it really put out?
> 
> Uhh a Delta fanatic talking about noise?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, these FHP 141s seem to be getting quieter than they were a few months ago while still turning full rpm. Maybe they are breaking in.


117CFM. You can be dead sure it's putting out 117CFM
"breaking in" Uh, sure. Really. -_-


----------



## hfcobra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> Heh. Typical overrating. I had that FHP141 and it only pushed 141CFM while being extremely loud. Want a real fan? Buy a san ace!
> "high" Hell no.


Well high for them, and still decently quiet. Not everyone wants a wind tunnel for a computer, despite the good cooling it will offer.


----------



## ehume

I've been measuring various fans with my anemometer. I will eventually be putting a lot of it together. For now, understand that San Ace and other industrial fan suppliers make fans that exceed their specs -- sometimes by a lot. My take on them is that what they mean is that if you get their fans, essentially all will meet or exceed the spec.

While I have no intention of spending $50 for a fan, my suspicion is that if I put both the San Ace and the Silverstone on the box, the San Ace would win. That said, the price on the Silvestone is wonderful.


----------



## doyll

Have you used your anemometer on any of the Thermalright TY-14x series fans? Just curious how their specs compare.









Very interested in how TY-143 and FHP141 compare.


----------



## miklkit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Have you used your anemometer on any of the Thermalright TY-14x series fans? Just curious how their specs compare.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very interested in how TY-143 and FHP141 compare.


Me too. Even at only 141cfm these make a strong wind out of the back of the case.


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> Me too. Even at only 141cfm these make a strong wind out of the back of the case.


My 83CFM AFB1212H creates a tornado at back of my case ...


----------



## DJXavier

Simple awesome article, thanks a lot!


----------



## Gero2013

hey guys, anyone know a guide to how to adjust speed of fans ? they are all spinning at various speeds.

I have 4 fans bequiet! Shadow Wings 1 Low Speed @800rpm. I tried speedfan but couldn't get it to work, one fan even turned off.

I am willing to try again but need some help.


----------



## eBombzor

Do you want to control them individually? I think Gigabyte's Easytune has a fan controlling feature for Z8x boards.


----------



## Gero2013

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Do you want to control them individually? I think Gigabyte's Easytune has a fan controlling feature for Z8x boards.


I want them to run at the same speed to be honest, dependent on the temperature of the CPU / GPU
Here's how they are connected
Fan 1 - CPU_OPT
Fan 2,3 - 4-pin socket
Fan 4 - 3-pin socket


----------



## eBombzor

You can get one these PWM splitters so that all of your fans can run off of the same PWM signal.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/20988/ele-1196/Swiftech_8-Way_PWM_Cable_Splitter_-_SATA_Power_8W-PWM-SPL-ST.html
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812718001


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gero2013*
> 
> hey guys, anyone know a guide to how to adjust speed of fans ? they are all spinning at various speeds.
> 
> I have 4 fans bequiet! Shadow Wings 1 Low Speed @800rpm. I tried speedfan but couldn't get it to work, one fan even turned off.
> 
> I am willing to try again but need some help.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gero2013*
> 
> I want them to run at the same speed to be honest, dependent on the temperature of the CPU / GPU
> Here's how they are connected
> Fan 1 - CPU_OPT
> Fan 2,3 - 4-pin socket
> Fan 4 - 3-pin socket


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> You can get one these PWM splitters so that all of your fans can run off of the same PWM signal.
> 
> http://www.frozencpu.com/products/20988/ele-1196/Swiftech_8-Way_PWM_Cable_Splitter_-_SATA_Power_8W-PWM-SPL-ST.html
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812718001


Don't know of a Shadow Wings 1 Low Speed, only Shadow Wings Low Speed. There are Silent Wings 2 and Pure Wings 2.

AFAIK Shadow Wings Low Speed fans are 3-pin voltage control.

This means the Swiftech 8-way PWM splitter would not allow any speed adjustment. It is PWM and +12 is supplied from PSU.

Shadow Wings Low Speed specs are:

Rated voltage DC = 12v
Starting voltage DC = 5v
Operating voltage DC = 5 ~ 12v
Current consumption = 0.28a (3.4w)
Safety current = 0.45a (5.42w)
Input power = 5.40w
Motherboard fan headers are usually rated for about 1a (12w). This means 2x Silent Wings on each header is safe, 3 would be questionable.
I don't know what fan headers on your mobo are controlled by SpeedFan so can't help much there.
I'm sure the CPU fan header is SpeedFan controlled and guessing the fan header that the fan stopped spinning on is also.
Many newer mobos have 2 CPU fan headers, CPU_FAN & CPU_OPT. Problem is I do not now if the CPU_OPT is on it's own power or connected to CPU_FAN header. If they are each 1a rated you could run a splitter on each header and control all 4 fans with SpeedFan CPU fan control.


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Don't know of a Shadow Wings 1 Low Speed, only Shadow Wings Low Speed. There are Silent Wings 2 and Pure Wings 2.
> 
> AFAIK Shadow Wings Low Speed fans are 3-pin voltage control.
> 
> This means the Swiftech 8-way PWM splitter would not allow any speed adjustment. It is PWM and +12 is supplied from PSU.
> 
> Shadow Wings Low Speed specs are:
> 
> Rated voltage DC = 12v
> Starting voltage DC = 5v
> Operating voltage DC = 5 ~ 12v
> Current consumption = 0.28a (3.4w)
> Safety current = 0.45a (5.42w)
> Input power = 5.40w
> Motherboard fan headers are usually rated for about 1a (12w). This means 2x Silent Wings on each header is safe, 3 would be questionable.
> I don't know what fan headers on your mobo are controlled by SpeedFan so can't help much there.
> I'm sure the CPU fan header is SpeedFan controlled and guessing the fan header that the fan stopped spinning on is also.
> Many newer mobos have 2 CPU fan headers, CPU_FAN & CPU_OPT. Problem is I do not now if the CPU_OPT is on it's own power or connected to CPU_FAN header. If they are each 1a rated you could run a splitter on each header and control all 4 fans with SpeedFan CPU fan control.


Actually you're right. But usually fans are rated far higher than what they actually draw, case in point I put 4 AFB1212H which is rated 0.5A and it ran fine when I checked their actual current draw they were below 0.3A each.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> Actually you're right. But usually fans are rated far higher than what they actually draw, case in point I put 4 AFB1212H which is rated 0.5A and it ran fine when I checked their actual current draw they were below 0.3A each.


yeah, I know.








Input power & Safety current = 5.4w & 5.42w.. your fan = 0.5a
Current consumption = 3.4w.. your fan =0.3a
5.4w -- 0.5a (6w)
3.4w -- 0.3a (3.6w)
Seem pretty much the same.

Problem could arise when the 3x fans that run nicely at 0.3a (0.9a total) pull more power when starting up using the 0.5a rating (1.5a total) possibly overloading the fan header and damaging it.. or worse the motherboard itself.


----------



## Gero2013

Ok thanks guys for the tips, will check out the BIOS settings.

Yes the bequiet! Shadow Wings Low Speed are 3-pin.
Surely I should be able to control their speed via modified voltages from the motherboard? Or will I need 4-pin for that?


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gero2013*
> 
> Ok thanks guys for the tips, will check out the BIOS settings.
> 
> Yes the bequiet! Shadow Wings Low Speed are 3-pin.
> Surely I should be able to control their speed via modified voltages from the motherboard? Or will I need 4-pin for that?


Not all mobos supports voltage control. And PWM is still far more accurate especially when used with SpeedFan


----------



## Gero2013

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> Not all mobos supports voltage control. And PWM is still far more accurate especially when used with SpeedFan


Ah ok , sorry for noob question but do you know if my mobo has it ? It's a Gigabyte Z87X-UD3H.
Where do I get this PWM signal from, the mobo?


----------



## doyll

Your CPU fan header is PWM.
First link in my sig covers PWM fan control.


----------



## kevindd992002

@doyll

Do you know a guide for using SpeedFan to control PWM- and voltage-controlled fans?


----------



## Gero2013

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Your CPU fan header is PWM.
> First link in my sig covers PWM fan control.


TY I'll have a good read tonight.

One question right ahead, are my fans PWM controlable?
They are 3-pin, here's their full link
https://geizhals.de/be-quiet-shadow-wings-sw1-low-speed-120mm-t12025-lr-2-bl053-a684031.html

Here's a pic of the controls on the MoBo.

GigabyteFanControl.JPG 154k .JPG file
, it has speed control, so it has PWM?

*EDIT*
Ok so appartenly 3-pin fans are not PWM. But I should be able to control the output voltage from the mobo and thus the speed of the fans via software?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gero2013*
> 
> TY I'll have a good read tonight, one question right ahead, are my fans PWM controlable?
> They are 3-pin, here's their full link
> https://geizhals.de/be-quiet-shadow-wings-sw1-low-speed-120mm-t12025-lr-2-bl053-a684031.html


No, they're not. PWM fans are 4-pin.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> @doyll
> 
> Do you know a guide for using SpeedFan to control PWM- and voltage-controlled fans?


Sure don't, sorry.

I use Gigabyte software to adjust Bios, than turn it off.

If you find a good guide / tutorial for SpeedFan please post it or link to it.


----------



## Gero2013

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> No, they're not. PWM fans are 4-pin.


Oki-doki, I had a look into the manual again and at EasyTune which I just installed. Turns out the 4th fan is just constantly running at 12V, ha!, never knew.
Oh well it seems like I can control the others via EasyTune.
One problem though is that I have 4 case fans but CPU_OPT which I have to use for voltage control is connected to the CPU fan in EasyTune, which is not good because obviously I want to control the speed of my case fan and CPU fan seperately.... is there any simple solution for that?

Also how come EasyTune shows me my case fans are spinning at 900+ RPM when they are rated for 800rpm. Is that bad or is that even the real RPM or is it based on some voltage / RPM calculation based off assumed values?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Sure don't, sorry.
> 
> I use Gigabyte software to adjust Bios, than turn it off.
> 
> If you find a good guide / tutorial for SpeedFan please post it or link to it.


Sure, I'll look into it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gero2013*
> 
> Oki-doki, I had a look into the manual again and at EasyTune which I just installed. Turns out the 4th fan is just constantly running at 12V, ha!, never knew.
> Oh well it seems like I can control the others via EasyTune.
> One problem though is that I have 4 case fans but CPU_OPT which I have to use for voltage control is connected to the CPU fan in EasyTune, which is not good because obviously I want to control the speed of my case fan and CPU fan seperately.... is there any simple solution for that?
> 
> Also how come EasyTune shows me my case fans are spinning at 900+ RPM when they are rated for 800rpm. Is that bad or is that even the real RPM or is it based on some voltage / RPM calculation based off assumed values?


I'm not sure if SpeedFan can achieve what you want to do but in my board CPU_OPT is just an "extension" for the CPU fan header so there is nothing I can do with that.

Regarding the RPM reading, don't worry about that because like other ratings there is always a tolerance for them. I can say that you should even be grateful that it runs over the 800RPM rating. I have fans that ran below and above their ratings.


----------



## Faelore

Heres a question: How in all hell does my 8320's stock cooler hold temps below 19c idle and never go above 50c ? HOW

ive seen it idle at 7-10c for 2 hours+


----------



## doyll

What is the temp in the room? My guess is idle temp is low as this is often the case. 50c depends on what load you are running, but considering that CPU shouldn't run above 62c ?? not sure exactly.. 50c sounds about right.


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> What is the temp in the room? My guess is idle temp is low as this is often the case. 50c depends on what load you are running, but considering that CPU shouldn't run above 62c ?? not sure exactly.. 50c sounds about right.


It does actually. AMD Idle temp = worthless to read


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> It does actually. AMD Idle temp = worthless to read


Doesn't what?















That's what I was saying.. at least in my head... worthless unless they are very hot idle temps.


----------



## Gero2013

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> Not all mobos supports voltage control. And PWM is still far more accurate especially when used with SpeedFan


ok ty, my CPU_OPT is connected to the CPU, so I'll need to run 2 fans of 1 connector. Can you guys suggest a splitter?


----------



## Gero2013

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Don't know of a Shadow Wings 1 Low Speed, only Shadow Wings Low Speed. There are Silent Wings 2 and Pure Wings 2.
> 
> AFAIK Shadow Wings Low Speed fans are 3-pin voltage control.
> 
> This means the Swiftech 8-way PWM splitter would not allow any speed adjustment. It is PWM and +12 is supplied from PSU.
> 
> Shadow Wings Low Speed specs are:
> 
> Rated voltage DC = 12v
> Starting voltage DC = 5v
> Operating voltage DC = 5 ~ 12v
> Current consumption = 0.28a (3.4w)
> Safety current = 0.45a (5.42w)
> Input power = 5.40w
> Motherboard fan headers are usually rated for about 1a (12w). This means 2x Silent Wings on each header is safe, 3 would be questionable.
> I don't know what fan headers on your mobo are controlled by SpeedFan so can't help much there.
> I'm sure the CPU fan header is SpeedFan controlled and guessing the fan header that the fan stopped spinning on is also.
> Many newer mobos have 2 CPU fan headers, CPU_FAN & CPU_OPT. Problem is I do not now if the CPU_OPT is on it's own power or connected to CPU_FAN header. If they are each 1a rated you could run a splitter on each header and control all 4 fans with SpeedFan CPU fan control.


btw I think you may have looked up the values for the high speed model, the ones for the low speed one are:

Rated voltage DC (V)12
Starting voltage DC (V)5
Operating voltage DC (V)5 ~ 12
Current consumption (A)0.05
Safety current (A)0.09
Input power (W)1.08

so I should be able to connect them via a splitter to one mobo connector and get the full speed out of them?


----------



## doyll

Indeed I did. Why would you need to slow down their 800rpm fan? It's less than 10dBA


----------



## chumanga

edited


----------



## Coreda

May as well ask in this thread: anyone know if the the Scythe Gentle Typhoon AP-15 comes with threaded grooves for the screws on both sides (intake and exhaust)?

Just flipped some stock fans to intake and they lacked threads, so I need to know if I'll face the same problem with other fans.


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Coreda*
> 
> May as well here: anyone know if the the Scythe Gentle Typhoon AP-15 comes with threaded grooves for the screws on both sides (intake and exhaust)?
> 
> Just flipped some stock fans to intake and they lacked threads, so I need to know if I'll have the same problem with other fans.


Eh ... All fans aside from jetflo 120 (which come with metal threaded inserts) are not threaded. The big fan screws will self-tap the frame


----------



## Coreda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> Eh ... All fans aside from jetflo 120 (which come with metal threaded inserts) are not threaded. The big fan screws will self-tap the frame


Oh, really? Tried using the included screws (1cm long) to create new threads but I can't turn it all the way in - they get too stuck and begin to wear the heads off.

Any tips for threading it all the way in?


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Coreda*
> 
> Oh, really? Tried using the included screws (1cm long) to create new threads but I can't turn it all the way in - they get too stuck and begin to wear the heads off.
> 
> Any tips for threading it all the way in?


Are they like that?
http://www.thewatercoolingshop.co.uk/images/D/80093_0.jpg
If their heads are being worn off, use a bigger screwdriver and apply more torque #0 screwdriver is what should be used. Not a tiny piss-ant screwdriver


----------



## Coreda

So glad I found this post. The tip is to heat up the screws first to ease the thread creation - works a treat and saved me from endless sighs









BTW I also found that keeping track of which screws were used to create the grooves and using those in the same holes when screwing it back on worked best.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> Are they like that?
> http://www.thewatercoolingshop.co.uk/images/D/80093_0.jpg
> If their heads are being worn off, use a bigger screwdriver and apply more torque #0 screwdriver is what should be used. Not a tiny piss-ant screwdriver


Yep, basically the same length. And a good strong screwdriver is most definitely needed, haha.


----------



## ehume

Also, there are self-tapping screws that have cuts running down the length of the screw, beginning about halfway down and deepening to the tip. Save a set of these for tapping threads, then use non-tapping screws for the normal attaching jobs.


----------



## IMKR

Quick quesiton
this guide stats
"Performance Fans:
Performance fans are generally used to cool radiators and CPU coolers. Keep in mind that connecting these performance fans to your motherboard is generally a bad idea as they may pull too much power and fry your motherboard's fan header. (Check your motherboard user manual for exact specification ranges)"

I just bought two SP120L fans to use as case fans and replace the fans that came with my corsair carbide 200r.

Is it a bad idea to hook these two sp120l fans onto my mobo system header?
on my mobo, the rear system header has 4 pin while the front has a 3pin.


----------



## kdon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IMKR*
> 
> Quick quesiton
> this guide stats
> "Performance Fans:
> Performance fans are generally used to cool radiators and CPU coolers. Keep in mind that connecting these performance fans to your motherboard is generally a bad idea as they may pull too much power and fry your motherboard's fan header. (Check your motherboard user manual for exact specification ranges)"
> 
> I just bought two SP120L fans to use as case fans and replace the fans that came with my corsair carbide 200r.
> 
> Is it a bad idea to hook these two sp120l fans onto my mobo system header?
> on my mobo, the rear system header has 4 pin while the front has a 3pin.


That is okay!







You can throw a 3 pin fan on any header it fits on, as long as it doesn't draw more current than the max rating for the header! In this case, you're golden!


----------



## WeAreNotAlone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kdon*
> 
> That is okay!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can throw a 3 pin fan on any header it fits on, as long as it doesn't draw more current than the max rating for the header! In this case, you're golden!


How do you determine what is the max rating for a fan header, if there is no published specs?

*What would the max rating for a fan header be on a LAPTOP?
(Header on laptop is 3-wire, fans are 3-wire)*

Would it be safe to add a 2nd fan of the same specs? (EG: Doubling the current draw, the stock fan being a 3-WIRE FAN, 5vdc, pulling .35amps)

On a DESKTOP it is expected the fans, might be upgraded to a fan that pulls more amps. On a LAPTOP I would assume while there is a safety margin built in, the designer assumes the fan won't be upgraded, the fan will be replaced with exact spec'd fan and for sure a 2nd fan won't be added.

Any thoughts would be appreciated on a control scheme on adding a 2nd fan to a LAPTOP.

*Seems like no-one has any info they'd like to share on how to control a 3-wire fan.*

http://www.overclock.net/t/1471092/adding-a-2nd-fan-laptop-only-1-fan-header-the-only-option-to-add-the-second-fan-is-to-use-a-5v-3-wire-oem-fan


----------



## IMKR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kdon*
> 
> That is okay!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can throw a 3 pin fan on any header it fits on, as long as it doesn't draw more current than the max rating for the header! In this case, you're golden!


so what does this mean then?
"Performance Fans:
Performance fans are generally used to cool radiators and CPU coolers. Keep in mind that connecting these performance fans to your motherboard is generally a bad idea as they may pull too much power and fry your motherboard's fan header. (Check your motherboard user manual for exact specification ranges)"

i can put my SP120L fan onto my system header?

how do i know if its okay to put a certain fan onto the mobo or not? since the guide says to NOT put fans onto mobo


----------



## WeAreNotAlone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IMKR*
> 
> so what does this mean then?
> "Performance Fans:
> Performance fans are generally used to cool radiators and CPU coolers. Keep in mind that connecting these performance fans to your motherboard is generally a bad idea as they may pull too much power and fry your motherboard's fan header. (Check your motherboard user manual for exact specification ranges)"
> 
> i can put my SP120L fan onto my system header?
> 
> how do i know if its okay to put a certain fan onto the mobo or not? since the guide says to NOT put fans onto mobo


Have you contacted the manufacturer of the board you are talking about?

In general what is being said is fans that push more air (Performance fans, and fans which have to push air thru restrictions) draw a good deal of current and that you need to verify with the motherboard vendor how much current the fan header, or headers are rated for.

*Note, Vendors will rate components differently. As a rule designers try to put in a safety margin of say 2 to 1 to compensate for transient loads, wear and tear.
Good company will rate with a 2 to 1 safety factor, other companies will rate the component without a safety cushion.

IMO it's best to use a controller (Relay) in which does the "heavy lifting", the motherboard just sending a signal to the controller.(Relay)

In your earlier post you stated "on my mobo, the rear system header has 4 pin while the front has a 3pin."

The 4-pin header should allow you to connect a powered PWM controller. Signal comes from the 4-pin PWM fan header on board, POWER for the fans comes directly from the powersupply so there is no danger in burning up the fan header.

PS: For desktops while searching for info on fan controllers for motherboards which do not have a 4-wire header I believe I saw 3-wire fan controllers.

.


----------



## IMKR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WeAreNotAlone*
> 
> In general what is being said is fans that push more air (Performance fans) draw more current and that you need to verify with the motherboard vendor how much current it is rated for. Additionally it is saying it's best to pull power off the powersupply vs powering fans off motherboard headers.
> 
> Q: What model, mfg , system, motherboard /model rev number are you talking about? Have you contacted the manufacturer? (I would suggest contacting them via e-mail, and then re-posting what they say...
> (Post "details" like you'd like to run across. EG: Post model numbers, what rev number the motherboard is, details, specs.)
> 
> In your earlier post you stated "on my mobo, the rear system header has 4 pin while the front has a 3pin."
> 
> The 4-pin header should allow you to connect a powered PWM controller. Signal comes from the 4-pin PWM fan header on board, POWER for the fans comes directly from the powersupply so there is no danger in burning up the fan header.
> 
> PS: For desktops while searching for info on fan controllers for motherboards which do not have a 4-wire header I believe I saw 3-wire fan controllers.
> 
> .


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130731&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
this is the mobo i have.
So is it safe to put my SP120L fans directly to the mobo system header?
also, since my rear system header on the mobo has a 4 pin, that means i can control the RPM right? while the 3 pin one will always run at full speed?


----------



## kyosak

Is this safe to use for removing thermal paste from my CPU?

http://www.amazon.com/Philips-SVC1116G-Screen-Plasma-Screens/dp/B004PYD9I2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394006433&sr=8-1&keywords=lcd+cleaning+phillips

I have one at home

Also, which paste is better, the stuff that comes bundled with Noctua CPU fans, or Arctic Silver 5?


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IMKR*
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130731&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
> this is the mobo i have.
> So is it safe to put my SP120L fans directly to the mobo system header?
> also, since my rear system header on the mobo has a 4 pin, that means i can control the RPM right? while the 3 pin one will always run at full speed?


Yes it is ... It's really only 0.18amps per fan.


----------



## IMKR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> Yes it is ... It's really only 0.18amps per fan.


than how do I know which fans shouldnt be hooked directly to the mobo as the guide (OP) suggests?

How do we know what a "performance fan" is? (as defined by this guide)


----------



## WeAreNotAlone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IMKR*
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130731&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
> this is the mobo i have.
> So is it safe to put my SP120L fans directly to the mobo system header?


Sure it's safe, you can connect up to (135 ) SP120L fans to that motherboard !
(Just kidding, POINT IS YOU NEED TO CONTACT THE MANUFACTURER /DOWNLOAD THE OWNERS MANUAL OF THE MOTHERBOARD AND SEE IF IT HAS SPECS on HOW MUCH CURRENT DRAW the HEADER is RATED TO HANDLE. I'D SUGGEST YOU E-MAIL THE MANUFACTURER (Tech Depart, NOT SALES) vs or in addition to calling them so you will have something in WRITING.... On the phone you may be told you can run 135 SP120L fans VERBALLY.

If rep says header will do 2amp, have him put it in writing.)

With that info in hand you compare it against what the fans are rated at trying to keep the load at about 50%.

***********************
Quote:


> also, since my rear system header on the mobo has a 4 pin, that means i can control the RPM right? while the 3 pin one will always run at full speed?


Depends... 3-pin may be variable /programable as well. Go into the BIOS and or Download whatever apps mfg might have to control fan speeds.
3 pin, vs 4-pin

4-pin should use what is called PWM.

The speed of 3-pin fans are controlled via VARYING the supply voltage to the fan. More voltage spins the fan faster.

4-pin fans receive FULL SUPPLY VOLTAGE. "Speed" of 4-pin fans is controlled by a controller chip embedded within the fan which turn the fan on and off rapidly. (In pulses)
(To illustrate plug in a vacuum cleaner, blow dryer etc and rapidly turn the switch on and off... Notice how you can speed it up or slow it down)

The 3 pin way is the old way, the 4-pin control scheme is the new way.

3-pin fans are generally cheaper. *
4-pin fans - have that embedded controller chip in them, which adds to the cost to manufacture.

A 3-pin fan will plug into a 4-pin fan header, result is it will run at full speed.

A "powered" PWM comtroler which gets it power directly from the powersupply, can control /regulate 4 and 3 pin fans AFAIK.

*Note, Depending on where 3 and 4 pin fans are in the "Product Cycle".... (Inverted Bell Curve) 4-pins might be cheaper. Buy it early in lifecycle price is high, when it gets popular price drops, as it is phased out price may increase (somewhat)... as the item (whatever it is) is "rare"... and they know they've "got you" if you need to "match" something up.

Trick to buying is not to be the first guy to the party, nor the last.

.


----------



## WeAreNotAlone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyosak*
> 
> Is this safe to use for removing thermal paste from my CPU?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Philips-SVC1116G-Screen-Plasma-Screens/dp/B004PYD9I2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394006433&sr=8-1&keywords=lcd+cleaning+phillips
> 
> I have one at home
> 
> Also, which paste is better, the stuff that comes bundled with Noctua CPU fans, or Arctic Silver 5?


I'd use 91% rubbing alcohol. Screen cleaner for a LCD, PLASMA, etc is likely to have additives in in.

91% Rubbing Alcohol is available everywhere.


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WeAreNotAlone*
> 
> Sure it's safe, you can connect up to (135 ) SP120L fans to that motherboard !
> (Just kidding, POINT IS YOU NEED TO CONTACT THE MANUFACTURER /DOWNLOAD THE OWNERS MANUAL OF THE MOTHERBOARD AND SEE IF IT HAS SPECS on HOW MUCH CURRENT DRAW the HEADER is RATED TO HANDLE. I'D SUGGEST YOU E-MAIL THE MANUFACTURER (Tech Depart, NOT SALES) vs or in addition to calling them so you will have something in WRITING.... On the phone you may be told you can run 135 SP120L fans VERBALLY.
> 
> If rep says header will do 2amp, have him put it in writing.)
> 
> With that info in hand you compare it against what the fans are rated at trying to keep the load at about 50%.
> 
> ***********************
> Depends... 3-pin may be variable /programable as well. Go into the BIOS and or Download whatever apps mfg might have to control fan speeds.
> 3 pin, vs 4-pin
> 
> 4-pin should use what is called PWM.
> 
> The speed of 3-pin fans are controlled via VARYING the supply voltage to the fan. More voltage spins the fan faster.
> 
> 4-pin fans receive FULL SUPPLY VOLTAGE. "Speed" of 4-pin fans is controlled by a controller chip embedded within the fan which turn the fan on and off rapidly. (In pulses)
> (To illustrate plug in a vacuum cleaner, blow dryer etc and rapidly turn the switch on and off... Notice how you can speed it up or slow it down)
> 
> The 3 pin way is the old way, the 4-pin control scheme is the new way.
> 
> 3-pin fans are generally cheaper. *
> 4-pin fans - have that embedded controller chip in them, which adds to the cost to manufacture.
> 
> A 3-pin fan will plug into a 4-pin fan header, result is it will run at full speed.
> 
> A "powered" PWM comtroler which gets it power directly from the powersupply, can control /regulate 4 and 3 pin fans AFAIK.
> 
> *Note, Depending on where 3 and 4 pin fans are in the "Product Cycle".... (Inverted Bell Curve) 4-pins might be cheaper. Buy it early in lifecycle price is high, when it gets popular price drops, as it is phased out price may increase (somewhat)... as the item (whatever it is) is "rare"... and they know they've "got you" if you need to "match" something up.
> 
> Trick to buying is not to be the first guy to the party, nor the last.
> 
> .


Just a small correction. PWM fans are done by input of the motherboard to the switching transistor. No logic involved. Logic involvement only occurs to the control of the fan.


----------



## WeAreNotAlone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IMKR*
> 
> than how do I know which fans shouldnt be hooked directly to the mobo as the guide (OP) suggests?
> 
> How do we know what a "performance fan" is? (as defined by this guide)


Have you been drinking?









It's really as simple as this:
Contact the mfg, or open the owners manual as see what the fan header(s) are rated at.
Compare that to the amperage the fans are rated at.
Most likely on a desktop board it's 1amp.

Try to shoot for loading the header(s) @ 50% , maybe 80% of whatever it is rated for. Alternatively invest in a powered PWM controller.

DONE.

PS: Once you do find the specs/ get something from manufacturer post back in detail like you'd like to run across right now.
EG: xyx board is rated at xyz amps on xyz header. Safety margin is 2 to 1 (You can run it @ 100% or the rated capacity, example 1amp and the circuit (when new) will supply up to 2amps)

************************

"Performance fan" is typically a fan that "PUSHES MORE AIR" than a "stock" / OEM, Low noise fan does.

The more air a fan moves generally means more noise.
Pushing air thru radiators = Back-pressure, aka "Resistance) vs pushing air thru "free space" (less back-pressure).
The more back-pressure, the more the fan has to work. /more amperage the fan will draw.

.


----------



## WeAreNotAlone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> Just a small correction. PWM fans are done by input of the motherboard to the switching transistor. No logic involved. Logic involvement only occurs to the control of the fan.


Yep,

Since you seem to be up on things, check out this post (and follow the link)

http://www.overclock.net/t/565007/guide-air-cooling-questions-answered-here-updated-8-16-10/1000_100#post_21895623

*Created a thread several days ago and no one has posted ANY useful info.

Seems like "LAPTOPS"... unless it's a high end model don't get much "love" around here.

That said everything is PWM this or that and controlling fans off a 3-pin fan header is rare these days*

http://www.overclock.net/t/1471092/adding-a-2nd-fan-laptop-only-1-fan-header-the-only-option-to-add-the-second-fan-is-to-use-a-5v-3-wire-oem-fan

.

.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IMKR*
> 
> Quick quesiton
> this guide stats
> "Performance Fans:
> Performance fans are generally used to cool radiators and CPU coolers. Keep in mind that connecting these performance fans to your motherboard is generally a bad idea as they may pull too much power and fry your motherboard's fan header. (Check your motherboard user manual for exact specification ranges)"
> 
> I just bought two SP120L fans to use as case fans and replace the fans that came with my corsair carbide 200r.
> 
> Is it a bad idea to hook these two sp120l fans onto my mobo system header?
> on my mobo, the rear system header has 4 pin while the front has a 3pin.


Motherboard fan headers are rated for about 1amp. Few fans draw that much power.
With few exceptions the only 4 pin PWM headers are the CPU fan headers. All other fan headers are not. Other 4 pin headers are not using the 4th pin.


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Motherboard fan headers are rated for about 1amp. Few fans draw that much power.
> With few exceptions the only 4 pin PWM headers are the CPU fan headers. All other fan headers are not. Other 4 pin headers are not using the 4th pin.


In the case of GB UD-series mobos they can handle 2amp surge current (usually fans are labelled as surge current) and slightly more than 1amp constant.


----------



## IMKR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WeAreNotAlone*
> 
> Have you been drinking?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Nope








sry though, i relaize how much of a stupid question this is and that it sounds like im trolling. (which im not)
One of my many reasons why i like this site is because everyone takes it seriously and help me out and dont beret me for calling me a troll or anything.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WeAreNotAlone*
> 
> Have you been drinking?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's really as simple as this:
> Contact the mfg, or open the owners manual as see what the fan header(s) are rated at.
> Compare that to the amperage the fans are rated at.
> Most likely on a desktop board it's 1amp.
> 
> Try to shoot for loading the header(s) @ 50% , maybe 80% of whatever it is rated for. Alternatively invest in a powered PWM controller.
> 
> DONE.
> 
> PS: Once you do find the specs/ get something from manufacturer post back in detail like you'd like to run across right now.
> EG: xyx board is rated at xyz amps on xyz header. Safety margin is 2 to 1 (You can run it @ 100% or the rated capacity, example 1amp and the circuit (when new) will supply up to 2amps)
> 
> ************************
> 
> "Performance fan" is typically a fan that "PUSHES MORE AIR" than a "stock" / OEM, Low noise fan does.
> 
> The more air a fan moves generally means more noise.
> Pushing air thru radiators = Back-pressure, aka "Resistance) vs pushing air thru "free space" (less back-pressure).
> The more back-pressure, the more the fan has to work. /more amperage the fan will draw.
> 
> .


i will call MSI (my motherboards an MSI) today and find out than ill get back to this thread








thx for the help so far guys


----------



## WeAreNotAlone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IMKR*
> 
> Nope
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sry though, i relaize how much of a stupid question this is and that it sounds like im trolling. (which im not)
> One of my many reasons why i like this site is because everyone takes it seriously and help me out and dont beret me for calling me a troll or anything.
> i will call MSI (my motherboards an MSI) today and find out than ill get back to this thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thx for the help so far guys


I understand your concern. I'm trying to add a second fan to a LAPTOP and am extremely concerned about the additional load of (1) dinky 5vdc .35amp overloading (burning out) the (1) fan header on the board.

I know they don't give desktop boards away, but if you burn out a fan header on a laptop replacing the motherboard is a bigger $$$$ /time issue.

The point I was trying to make was someone could say: Hey you can connect (135) SP120L fans to that board !, you'll be "fine "dude... you do so and it burns out the on-board fan header.

PS: Want to trade projects? I don't have the option to use a powered PWM controller /splitter. *It seems NO-ONE here has any experience , nor ideas on how to try to control a 3-wire fan, (On a laptop, Desktop there are some options that fit in 5.25 drive bay. I don't need anything fancy, just some way to vary the speed on the LAPTOP automatically.*

There is no info on the net, info is restricted... Can't find a SERVICE, MAINTENANCE MANUAL as I think TOSHIBA calls it to get any hard info.

.http://www.overclock.net/t/1471092/adding-a-2nd-fan-laptop-only-1-fan-header-the-only-option-to-add-the-second-fan-is-to-use-a-5v-3-wire-oem-fan/0_100

.


----------



## IMKR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WeAreNotAlone*
> 
> Sure it's safe, you can connect up to (135 ) SP120L fans to that motherboard !
> (Just kidding, POINT IS YOU NEED TO CONTACT THE MANUFACTURER /DOWNLOAD THE OWNERS MANUAL OF THE MOTHERBOARD AND SEE IF IT HAS SPECS on HOW MUCH CURRENT DRAW the HEADER is RATED TO HANDLE. I'D SUGGEST YOU E-MAIL THE MANUFACTURER (Tech Depart, NOT SALES) vs or in addition to calling them so you will have something in WRITING.... On the phone you may be told you can run 135 SP120L fans VERBALLY.
> 
> If rep says header will do 2amp, have him put it in writing.)
> 
> With that info in hand you compare it against what the fans are rated at trying to keep the load at about 50%.
> 
> .


Okay, i called them and asked
I told them, my motherboard model, and told them i have 2 system fans, 1 on the rear (4 pin) and 1 on the front (3 pin)
and i asked them how many current draw it can hold
they told me 1 amps and i asked it for it in writing in email.
they sent me this

"They are rated to support 1amp of fan.

Sincerely,
MSI Service & Support Division"

also, does that mean each system header can hold up to 1 amps? or the total from all system headers (in my case 2) can hold up to 1 amps?


----------



## IMKR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WeAreNotAlone*
> 
> Have you been drinking?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's really as simple as this:
> Contact the mfg, or open the owners manual as see what the fan header(s) are rated at.
> Compare that to the amperage the fans are rated at.
> Most likely on a desktop board it's 1amp.
> 
> Try to shoot for loading the header(s) @ 50% , maybe 80% of whatever it is rated for. Alternatively invest in a powered PWM controller.
> 
> DONE.
> 
> PS: Once you do find the specs/ get something from manufacturer post back in detail like you'd like to run across right now.
> EG: xyx board is rated at xyz amps on xyz header. Safety margin is 2 to 1 (You can run it @ 100% or the rated capacity, example 1amp and the circuit (when new) will supply up to 2amps)
> 
> .


how do "aim for 50% load on the headers" ?? does that mean the fan spinning at 50% load?
also, i have 2 system header, the rear one is 4pin and front is 3 pin
does that mean my front fan will spin at full power? (and does that mean 100% load??)
and for the rear one (with a 4 pin) i can control the spin via bios right?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WeAreNotAlone*
> 
> "Performance fan" is typically a fan that "PUSHES MORE AIR" than a "stock" / OEM, Low noise fan does.
> 
> The more air a fan moves generally means more noise.
> Pushing air thru radiators = Back-pressure, aka "Resistance) vs pushing air thru "free space" (less back-pressure).
> The more back-pressure, the more the fan has to work. /more amperage the fan will draw.
> 
> .


also, by that definition, then isnt all fans not from cases "performance fans" then?

how come OP suggests not to directly put fans onto mobo but to hook it up to PSU? (doesnt that mean it runs full power all the time?)


----------



## WeAreNotAlone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IMKR*
> 
> Okay, i called them and asked


I know you linked to the Newegg page for the board, but to help others doing a Google (or whatever search) edit in full name of, model#, revision number, etc of the board When talking about "the motherboard" refer to it by the part number/full name/model so the info in your posts is tied /linked to that "board".

EG: *MSI H81M-P33 LGA 1150 Intel H81 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX* this of that... *MSI H81M-P33 LGA 1150 Intel H81* if you want to shorten it a bit.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130731&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=

Doing such ties any info to that board, helps those that are Googling for info. I don't know about you but I like it when I can type in the part number of something and the search results are product specific.









Doing such also reduces confusion, and helps out in situations a poster may rely on his "sig", his "signature to convey such info and the poster swaps out a component... Updating his sig with the new systems specs. On alot of boards "sigs" may not be archived and instantly a entire thread is completely worthless as the suggestions, tips, fixes people have taken time out of their day to suggestion are not tied to any particular item /component, model, etc.

As a example of this:
Say someone had a Corvette, they are having a problem and say 75 people take the time to post suggestions. The problem is resolved. Great thread with alot of tips. Those 75 people gave a good amount of time in the quest to help the poster.
No where (posted) in the thread is it mentioned what year/model the Corvette is... ALL this info is in the posters "Sig".

Poster buys a Mustang, and updates his profile. Instantly the whole thread's worth drops to ZERO.... When this happens in a round about way the poster just kicked those 75 people in the teeth. (wasted their time).

It only takes a second or two to copy and paste the words 78 Corvette, xyx engine, what trim level it is.

Quote:


> I told them, my motherboard model,*MSI H81M-P33 LGA 1150 Intel H81* and told them i have 2 system fans, 1 on the rear (4 pin) and 1 on the front (3 pin)
> and i asked them how many current draw it can hold
> they told me 1 amps and i asked it for it in writing in email.
> they sent me this
> 
> "They are rated to support 1amp of fan.
> 
> Sincerely,
> MSI Service & Support Division"
> 
> also, does that mean each system header can hold up to 1 amps? or the total from all system headers (in my case 2) can hold up to 1 amps?


E-mail them back and have them VERIFY, how much EACH header of the *MSI H81M-P33 LGA 1150 Intel H81* will run.

Q: Isn't this info in the OWNERS MANUAL? (If it's not, ask them why not?)

Additionally give them the specs on the fans you are wanting to use (or make up some specs with each fan pulling 1.0 amps).

Ask them how much of a "safety margin" they engineer in (Not that they'd tell you)

Ask them if the 1.0amps is spec'd for the life of the board (Over engineered, Robust) to compensate for aging components.

Stuff like that.

.


----------



## WeAreNotAlone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IMKR*
> 
> how do "aim for 50% load on the headers" ?? does that mean the fan spinning at 50% load?


If fan header (or total of the headers) is rated @1.0amp, to be only the safe side keep the total draw (amps @ .5 amp).
Two fans @ .18 each is .36 amps.
That's what that means.

Will a 1.0 amp fan header drive (power) a 1.0 amp fan?
Yes. The point in reducing the loading is to compensate for components as they age.
MSI isn't a "fly-by-name: brand I would assume you could run 1.0amp thru each header, AND that they are engineered with a safety factor of 2 to 1... or at least 1.25 to 1.

Quote:


> also, i have 2 system header, the rear one is 4pin and front is 3 pin
> does that mean my front fan will spin at full power?


Depends on the BIOS.

Have you read thru the MSI H81M-P33 LGA 1150 Intel H81 OWNERS MANUAL?
Have you gone into the bios to check?
Have you read thru the product page on MSI for info on the board?
Does MSI have a "overclocking" /monitoring app? If so run it.
Quote:


> (and does that mean 100% load??)


A good engineer figures the product running at FULL THROTTLE (load).. every component loaded fully... So yes that is 100% Load. He then adds in a safety margin to compensate for components as they age.
Quote:


> and for the rear one (with a 4 pin) i can control the spin via bios right?


The bios will control both the 4-pin and 3-pin headers, to what degree of control is dependent on how advanced the bios is /how it is setup.
Quote:


> also, by that definition, then isnt all fans not from cases "performance fans" then?


Things can be marketed in various ways. "Performance" can take many flavors.
Generally a Performance fan moves more air than a OEM fan, draws more apps.
It's a general term, there is no "law" that states xyz fan has to move so much air.
Quote:


> how come OP suggests not to directly put fans onto mobo but to hook it up to PSU?


Reason is the POWER for the fan(s) is NOT going thru the motherboard. Power=heat, too much heat= failure /burnout.
You can use whatever fan or fans you want.

*To sum all of this up.... On a desktop board I wouldn't worry about running (2) .18 amp fans separately or on the same header.*

Oh, BTW does the board have a warranty?

.


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## IMKR

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WeAreNotAlone*
> 
> I know you linked to the Newegg page for the board, but to help others doing a Google (or whatever search) edit in full name of, model#, revision number, etc of the board When talking about "the motherboard" refer to it by the part number/full name/model so the info in your posts is tied /linked to that "board".
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130731&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
> 
> (In other words add in info YOU would like to run across.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EG: Mfg, model, revision number, etc....
> 
> MSI H81M-P33 LGA 1150 Intel H81 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX this of that... MSI H81M-P33 LGA 1150 Intel H81 if you want to shorten it a bit.
> E-mail them back and have them VERIFY, how much EACH header of the *MSI H81M-P33 LGA 1150 Intel H81* will run.
> 
> Q: Isn't this info in the OWNERS MANUAL? (If it's not, ask them why not?)
> 
> Additionally give them the specs on the fans you are wanting to use (or make up some specs with each fan pulling 1.0 amps).
> 
> Ask them how much of a "safety margin" they engineer in (Not that they'd tell you)
> 
> Ask them if the 1.0amps is spec'd for the life of the board (Over engineered, Robust) to compensate for aging components.
> 
> Stuff like that.
> 
> .





i emailed them back asking for a vertified, legimatie form and this is what i got
"

Dear customer, For H81m-p33 each 3pins header are 1amp each.
"
doesnt seem very "legimate" or "professional" to me lol, so i called them back
and i probed at it a bit more and they told me if i want it to be a vertified, written form, i have to request it towards their HQ, (which I just did) and they told me i should get an email about 1 week from now.

I also asked them why its not in the owners manual and his exact (more or less) response was
"this information wouldnt be on the manual. You can find this information with a quick google search, desktop mobos fan headers are generically/generally 1 amps per header." (which is also what you guys all told me)

for the last 2 question, the guy didnt know, said i have to talk direclty to HQ.

so im guessing these guys are just ordered to give us the general "each fan header is made to hold 1amps" answer ?

and yes to the warranty (i built this PC ~~ 4 months ago)


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## DaveLT

That's because the ATX (I think) standard calls for at least 1amp CONSTANT and 2amps surge


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