# [Gizmodo] Apple Acknowledges iPhone 5 Camera Problem, Says You’re Holding It Wrong



## The Lurking Ninja

Quote:


> After initially denying it, Apple has acknowledged the iPhone 5's purple flare camera problem in an email to a Gizmodo reader. Their solution: "Angle the camera away from the bright light source when taking pictures."


http://gizmodo.com/5947972/apple-acknowledges-iphone-5-camera-problem-says-youre-holding-it-wrong


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## coachmark2

....

....

HAHAHAHA!!! OH wow. It just keeps getting better. Now I'll have to add another link to my sig....


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## exnihilo

It's [probably] called chromatic aberration and a likely cause is the coating on the "lens".

cg


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## Manyak

Wow, a lens that exhibits glare when shot at a light source. Unheard of.










Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exnihilo*
> 
> It's [probably] called chromatic aberration and a likely cause is the coating on the "lens".
> cg


Chromatic Aberration is different. Different wavelengths of light get diverted differently when moving from air to glass and back, so they get split up a bit by the time they hit the sensor on the camera, which are really noticeable at the edges of objects where colors change. Similar to what happens with prisms, like on the cover of Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon. This is most likely caused by internal reflections of that specific wavelength within the lens itself (at least that's my guess).


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## Xero.

Apple refusing to fix any issues had by their customers is going to drive them headfirst fast...

...I hope.


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## born2bwild

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manyak*
> 
> Wow, a lens that exhibits glare when shot at a light source. Unheard of.


I know... it happens with every smartphone (and most cameras), yet people make such a big deal about the iPhone 5 exhibiting it.


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## Riou

That is odd. iPhone 4 looks like sunlight. iPhone 5 looks like a Galick Gun blast.


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## AznDud333

thats probably caused by the crystal that is protecting the lens..lol/ very funny none the less, very much expected of apple


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## QuackPot

Don't worry. In a years time you will be able to buy the Iphone6 with new camera that works properly like every other camera phone has since they first came out...


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## lordikon

While it would be nice to not have this issue, l doubt it will affect many users enough that they will care. I'd rather have the improvements of the new camera and is flaw, then have an iPhone 4S camera.


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## perfectblade

people take phone cameras too seriously. all of them suck, they just suck in different ways


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## Rookie1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Riou*
> 
> 
> That is odd. iPhone 4 looks like sunlight. iPhone 5 looks like a Galick Gun blast.


Now you've done it. You've shown that this is actually an issue that goes beyond something that of course would happen with any camera. Either way it doesn't matter. Some people buy into marketing and some don't. As long Apple isn't the only game in town then I'm not bothered.


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## tsm106

That's hilarious.


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## Manyak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rookie1337*
> 
> Now you've done it. You've shown that this is actually an issue that goes beyond something that of course would happen with any camera. Either way it doesn't matter. Some people buy into marketing and some don't. As long Apple isn't the only game in town then I'm not bothered.


Every camera and every lens has an issue, the only question is what the issue is and whether or not you can live with it or not. Some cameras are super low res, some suck in low light, some leave noise patterns at high ISOs, some have bad lens flare, some have bad CA. This is why high end camera lenses have like, 100 glass elements in them made with some ridiculously rare materials and coatings, and DSLR bodies have super powerful processors in them. To eliminate this type of stuff. You simply can't beat the laws of physics.

At the end of the day, dealing with some bad lens flare is a lot better than dealing with the horrible quality of a plastic lens.


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## kabj06

I remember that Apple's response to the overheating Apple /// was to lift the front 6 inches off the desktop and drop it. They haven't changed a bit since the 80s.


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## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manyak*
> 
> Every camera and every lens has an issue, the only question is what the issue is and whether or not you can live with it or not. Some cameras are super low res, some suck in low light, some leave noise patterns at high ISOs, some have bad lens flare, some have bad CA. This is why high end camera lenses have like, 100 glass elements in them made with some ridiculously rare materials and coatings, and DSLR bodies have super powerful processors in them. To eliminate this type of stuff. You simply can't beat the laws of physics.
> At the end of the day, dealing with some bad lens flare is a lot better than dealing with the horrible quality of a plastic lens.


??

Why the IP4 didn't do that? That is what matters, what shoulda, coulda been. It's their phone, they should know what they're doing so what ever variables, they are in charge. Apparently the laws of physics are different for the IP5??


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## Darkpriest667

Speak of Apple, where has Steelbom been lately? I haven't seen him in any of the recent apple threads.

Also, Seems like the newest iphone was released without the Steve seal of approval. I garuntee you this wouldn't have been allowed if Steve were in charge. Especially the maps thing.


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## Biscuits_N_Gravy

Doesn't matter since everyone seems to love that stupid "Instagram Sepia Filter" crap. You will never even notice, since your picture looks like it was taken in the early 1900's.


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## kabj06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Biscuits_N_Gravy*
> 
> Doesn't matter since everyone seems to love that stupid "Instagram Sepia Filter" crap. You will never even notice, since your picture looks like it was taken in the early 1900's.


Just use a damn Holga and you'll get the same results!


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## doomlord52

Does anything actually work on this thing? Wifi problems, (supposed) 4G problems, maps problems, screen problems, light-leak problems.... now camera problems? Was this thing actually tested?


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## ZealotKi11er

The problem here is that if there is even a small problem with Apple devices you got to make a News thread. All phones have problems. For example my GNex Screen is terrible @ Low Brightness. As long as there will be a Next iPhone or any other device the present one will not be perfect or then you would have no reason to upgrade.


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## wsnnwa

Worst launch ever.


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## orick

saphire crytal on the lense....


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## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Does anything actually work on this thing? Wifi problems, (supposed) 4G problems, maps problems, screen problems, light-leak problems.... now camera problems? Was this thing actually tested?


well, at least you can make phone calls now, unlike the iphone 4


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## Manyak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> ??
> Why the IP4 didn't do that? That is what matters, what shoulda, coulda been. It's their phone, they should know what they're doing so what ever variables, they are in charge. Apparently the laws of physics are different for the IP5??


And the fact that the iP4 and 4S capture very little detail by today's standards is irrelevant? There's no such thing as a perfect lens. There are always tradeoffs. Otherwise there would be no reason for DSLRs to have 500 different lens choices.

Apple's choice gave their camera the best sharpness and dynamic range of any cell phone camera, at the cost of having some bad lens flare. That is all.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Biscuits_N_Gravy*
> 
> Doesn't matter since everyone seems to love that stupid "Instagram Sepia Filter" crap. You will never even notice, since your picture looks like it was taken in the early 1900's.


This coming from the guy with a sepia photo for an avatar?


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## SectorNine50

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> The problem here is that if there is even a small problem with Apple devices you got to make a News thread. All phones have problems. For example my GNex Screen is terrible @ Low Brightness. As long as there will be a Next iPhone or any other device the present one will not be perfect or then you would have no reason to upgrade.


It's because of the stigma Apple and it's fans have created. Talk to any hardcore Apple fan, and they'll tell you about how Apple products "just work," and "never have any problems," and "if a company were to switch to Apple products, they'd no longer need an IT staff" (I hear that one so often it hurts; clearly no idea how much goes into IT beyond the personal computers).

The best is when you ask them about a problem they are having, they play it off like, "Oh, no it's not a big deal that my computer shuts off suddenly every 15 minutes. A new one just came out, and I was thinking about buying it anyway."

Ugh. Working with Apple fanboys from an IT standpoint is an absolute nightmare.


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## ar3f

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Does anything actually work on this thing? Wifi problems, (supposed) 4G problems, maps problems, screen problems, light-leak problems.... now camera problems? Was this thing actually tested?


You missed "a [iPhone5] glitch was chewing up cellular data instead of Wi-Fi data, but customers won't be charged for any overages, says Verizon." - CNET

But it does not matter as long as iPhone 5 has a back cover made of a super extra high tech element invented by Apple: aluminium.


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## SohcSTI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> The problem here is that if there is even a small problem with Apple devices you got to make a News thread. All phones have problems. For example my GNex Screen is terrible @ Low Brightness. As long as there will be a Next iPhone or any other device the present one will not be perfect or then you would have no reason to upgrade.


There's a few apps on the market that fix that issue. Also, trinity kernels settings look pretty good and do away with the low brightness grain.


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## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Manyak*
> 
> Every camera and every lens has an issue, the only question is what the issue is and whether or not you can live with it or not. Some cameras are super low res, some suck in low light, some leave noise patterns at high ISOs, some have bad lens flare, some have bad CA. This is why high end camera lenses have like, 100 glass elements in them made with some ridiculously rare materials and coatings, and DSLR bodies have super powerful processors in them. To eliminate this type of stuff. You simply can't beat the laws of physics.
> At the end of the day, dealing with some bad lens flare is a lot better than dealing with the horrible quality of a plastic lens.
> 
> 
> 
> ??
> 
> Why the IP4 didn't do that? That is what matters, what shoulda, coulda been. It's their phone, they should know what they're doing so what ever variables, they are in charge. Apparently the laws of physics are different for the IP5??
Click to expand...

Very first sentence of his post was "every camera and every lens has an issue".

IPhone 4 and 5 are different cameras, different lenses, different issues...


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## AznDud333

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> Speak of Apple, where has Steelbom been lately? I haven't seen him in any of the recent apple threads.
> Also, Seems like the newest iphone was released without the Steve seal of approval. I garuntee you this wouldn't have been allowed if Steve were in charge. Especially the maps thing.


well honestly it's pretty hard to defend apple now isnt it?


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## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Riou*
> 
> 
> 
> That is odd. iPhone 4 looks like sunlight. iPhone 5 looks like a Galick Gun blast.


That... is... insanely awesome. Tis' a feature








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> Speak of Apple, where has Steelbom been lately? I haven't seen him in any of the recent apple threads.
> 
> Also, Seems like the newest iphone was released without the Steve seal of approval. I garuntee you this wouldn't have been allowed if Steve were in charge. Especially the maps thing.


Oh, I'm around. And I... not in an Apple thread? What is this blasphemy?!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AznDud333*
> 
> well honestly it's pretty hard to defend apple now isnt it?


Nope









>>>>>

I think I'll take a photo of the sun with my dads iPhone 5 and see what happens.


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## Biscuits_N_Gravy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manyak*
> 
> And the fact that the iP4 and 4S capture very little detail by today's standards is irrelevant? There's no such thing as a perfect lens. There are always tradeoffs. Otherwise there would be no reason for DSLRs to have 500 different lens choices.
> Apple's choice gave their camera the best sharpness and dynamic range of any cell phone camera, at the cost of having some bad lens flare. That is all.
> This coming from the guy with a sepia photo for an avatar?


Well, that was Hunter S Thompson before the whole "Instagram" craze. He is (was) way removed from that stuff, lol.


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## CBZ323

Apple would make a trend out of this and make pink lights on pictures cool and trendy


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## Jesse^_^

Hipsters no longer needing to Instagram filter their photo's.


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## MGX1016

Ok so it's not that big a deal but shooting panaramic photos without hitting some sun is just silly sounding...

Any idea on iPhone5S?


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## Stealth Pyros

That's just pathetic and hilarious. Not even talking about the minor flaw here, but the company response is just amazing.


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## G3RG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Does anything actually work on this thing? Wifi problems, (supposed) 4G problems, maps problems, screen problems, light-leak problems.... now camera problems? Was this thing actually tested?


Don't forget the terrible QC with the chipped cases...


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## un1b4ll

the truth is always the opposite of whatever Gizmodo says- on any subject.


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## Remonster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Does anything actually work on this thing? Wifi problems, (supposed) 4G problems, maps problems, screen problems, light-leak problems.... now camera problems? Was this thing actually tested?


Some people experience some of these problems, you make it sound like all iPhones have all of these problems. I have a 5 and don't have a single one of these problems and actually, of the dozens of people I know who already have theirs, exactly zero of them have noticed any of these issues. The only truly widespread issue as far as I'm concerned is the black anodized coating coming off on the black iPhone 5. This isn't really a defect or quality control issue, it's a property of the material and coating they chose (aluminum chips and scratches very easily) but the thing that gets me mad is they could have simply chosen another material. Apple is so obsessed with thinness and lightness even though almost no one in the real world cares, why not make the iPhone 5 out of stainless steel (or whatever) have it be a few grams heavier but much more robust? My 5 is white and has no issues (since it isn't anodized) but my brother had a black one for one day before it had noticeable scuffs and chips, in fact it came out of the box with two small bits of black already chipped off.

The screen and light leaking problems are obviously manufacturing defects so the factories need to tighten up their quality control and Apple should definitely get on their case about that. I don't really know much about the wifi or 4G problems, haven't had any problems myself and haven't really read up on the issues so I can't comment on that but the overall fact is Apple has already sold several million iPhone 5s and there are bound to be quite a few faulty ones in that batch.

I will say that I don't remember any past iPhones having quite as many issues as the 5 does and the recent versions of OS X have been buggier and quite a lot more annoying than they used to be so I do fear that Apple doesn't take the quality of its products as seriously as it should. That was the one and only reason I was ever willing to spend the money to buy (a ton of) their products. And while I'm ranting, why does EVERYTHING I do in iOS6 involve some sort of pop up or warning? "turning on wifi will improve bla bla bla" every time I try to use the Maps, for example? Get the hell out of my way!


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## tompsonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Remonster*
> 
> Some people experience some of these problems, you make it sound like all iPhones have all of these problems. I have a 5 and *don't have a single one of these problems* and actually, of the dozens of people I know who already have theirs, exactly zero of them have noticed any of these issues. The only truly widespread issue as far as I'm concerned is the black anodized coating coming off on the black iPhone 5. This isn't really a defect or quality control issue, it's a property of the material and coating they chose (aluminum chips and scratches very easily) but the thing that gets me mad is they could have simply chosen another material. Apple is so obsessed with thinness and lightness even though almost no one in the real world cares, why not make the iPhone 5 out of stainless steel (or whatever) have it be a few grams heavier but much more robust? My 5 is white and has no issues (since it isn't anodized) but my brother had a black one for one day before it had noticeable scuffs and chips, in fact it came out of the box with two small bits of black already chipped off.
> The screen and light leaking problems are obviously manufacturing defects so the factories need to tighten up their quality control and Apple should definitely get on their case about that. I don't really know much about the wifi or 4G problems, haven't had any problems myself and haven't really read up on the issues so I can't comment on that but the overall fact is Apple has already sold several million iPhone 5s and there are bound to be quite a few faulty ones in that batch.
> I will say that I don't remember any past iPhones having quite as many issues as the 5 does and the recent versions of OS X have been buggier and quite a lot more annoying than they used to be so I do fear that Apple doesn't take the quality of its products as seriously as it should. That was the one and only reason I was ever willing to spend the money to buy (a ton of) their products. And while I'm ranting, why does EVERYTHING I do in iOS6 involve some sort of pop up or warning? "turning on wifi will improve bla bla bla" every time I try to use the Maps, for example? Get the hell out of my way!


Sounds like you have a different set of issues


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## Mootsfox

Uh yeah, it has a lens, so if you want to point it near the sun you need the shade it with a hood or your hand. So yeah, you ARE doing it wrong.


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## G3RG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Remonster*
> 
> Some people experience some of these problems, you make it sound like all iPhones have all of these problems. I have a 5 and don't have a single one of these problems and actually, of the dozens of people I know who already have theirs, exactly zero of them have noticed any of these issues. The only truly widespread issue as far as I'm concerned is the black anodized coating coming off on the black iPhone 5. This isn't really a defect or quality control issue, it's a property of the material and coating they chose (aluminum chips and scratches very easily) but the thing that gets me mad is they could have simply chosen another material. Apple is so obsessed with thinness and lightness even though almost no one in the real world cares, why not make the iPhone 5 out of stainless steel (or whatever) have it be a few grams heavier but much more robust? My 5 is white and has no issues (since it isn't anodized) but my brother had a black one for one day before it had noticeable scuffs and chips, in fact it came out of the box with two small bits of black already chipped off.
> The screen and light leaking problems are obviously manufacturing defects so the factories need to tighten up their quality control and Apple should definitely get on their case about that. I don't really know much about the wifi or 4G problems, haven't had any problems myself and haven't really read up on the issues so I can't comment on that but the overall fact is Apple has already sold several million iPhone 5s and there are bound to be quite a few faulty ones in that batch.
> I will say that I don't remember any past iPhones having quite as many issues as the 5 does and the recent versions of OS X have been buggier and quite a lot more annoying than they used to be so I do fear that Apple doesn't take the quality of its products as seriously as it should. That was the one and only reason I was ever willing to spend the money to buy (a ton of) their products. And while I'm ranting, why does EVERYTHING I do in iOS6 involve some sort of pop up or warning? "turning on wifi will improve bla bla bla" every time I try to use the Maps, for example? Get the hell out of my way!


It actually is a quality control issue. They're clearly doing something very wrong with the anodizing process. Anodized aluminum DOES NOT chip THAT easily.... anodizing is supposed to make the surface tougher anyways.


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## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Very first sentence of his post was "every camera and every lens has an issue".
> IPhone 4 and 5 are different cameras, different lenses, different issues...


so, what is the issue with iphone 4's camera?


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## Sapientia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> The problem here is that if there is even a small problem with Apple devices you got to make a News thread. All phones have problems. For example my GNex Screen is terrible @ Low Brightness. As long as there will be a Next iPhone or any other device the present one will not be perfect or then you would have no reason to upgrade.


Not to mention the burn in, which is even more annoying. No one warned me about that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manyak*
> 
> And the fact that the iP4 and 4S capture very little detail by today's standards is irrelevant? There's no such thing as a perfect lens. There are always tradeoffs. Otherwise there would be no reason for DSLRs to have 500 different lens choices.
> Apple's choice gave their camera the best sharpness and dynamic range of any cell phone camera, at the cost of having some bad lens flare. That is all.
> This coming from the guy with a sepia photo for an avatar?


I think your words are falling on deaf ears.


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## Ghilly

This is fantastic more apple fail, i do enjoy reading my daily dose on OCN, ohh and also the fanbouys clammering to dismiss and play down every story.


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## alpsie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> I think I'll take a photo of the sun with my dads iPhone 5 and see what happens.


You better do







I want to see how it turns out.


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## DiNet

I was scared that there won't be "you holding it wrong" this time.


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## .:hybrid:.

I think it looks sexy











As an owner of a 'dumb phone', I am amazed by the quality of the mobile phone cameras these days.


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## AusNorman

Man I would love a "Galick Gun" mode on my new phone







Call it anime mode (erratic light flashes and zig-zags across the screen) so many peeps would use it


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## AngeloG.

Wait. There are people out there who DON'T think the sun is purple?


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## BizzareRide

Well I think its only natural that Apple products' flaws get their own news thread. Are many blown out of proportion? Absolutely, but its the culture that Apple is guilty of perpetuating and when this mantra no longer fits the situation, we get to call them out on it.


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## Awsan

I swear its just ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz, and people still defending apple GOD i dont want to live on this planet,I own an iPad 3 and i love it and i am an apple hatter.even if nokia had one those problems on the lumia920 i will never buy it because i will be the stupidest person alive to support a company who will keep supplying me each year with a faulty phone,even if i own a company and made a faulty device i will not use it my self it was truley amazing seeing apple fan boys trying to make the purple hue a normal thing xD.


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## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *G3RG*
> 
> It actually is a quality control issue. They're clearly doing something very wrong with the anodizing process. Anodized aluminum DOES NOT chip THAT easily.... anodizing is supposed to make the surface tougher anyways.


They're having an EK moment with their plating lol.


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## 47 Knucklehead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> They're having an EK moment with their plating lol.












Exactly. They screw up, blame the water. Apple camera screws up, blame the light. Apple housing chips when you tap it, blame the Earth.

It's ... ELEMENTAL.

What next? It explodes when you leave it sit out, blame the air?


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## brasco

I think a few people are missing the point, it's not the flaring doesn't matter because _all_ phone cameras are poor, it matters as it seems a step back from the previous model. For a company that prides itself on innovation and improving what they have, it's going to hurt them if they cut corners on testing or materials, it's also a PR disaster because the media are just waiting to pounce on anything and everything (not just the main problems), just as they did when Microsoft was the giant.


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## KhaoticKomputing

I love how Apple is incapable of admitting they made a mistake. I love how they treat their lemmings.. I mean fan boy's... I mean paying customer's.

My Mother, Step dad, brother, and sister all use an Iphone 4, Within 6 months each phone had glitch's or problem's. What are the odd's that 4 people under the same roof buy the same device and all 4 have issue's.
None of the issue's are caused by poor operation of the phone, they just broke or never fully worked. Each one was basicly told "your doing it wrong".

My Step Dad was actually told to smack his phone on the table after turning on Wifi to get it to pick up network's... Oddly enough the phone dosn't respond well to being smacked around..

Here's to hoping that people wise up and move from such an overpriced worthless device. I will take my cheap Samsung Vitality (cricket phone, pretty decent one for the price too!) over an apple any day..


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brasco*
> 
> I think a few people are missing the point, it's not the flaring doesn't matter because _all_ phone cameras are poor, it matters as it seems a step back from the previous model. For a company that prides itself on innovation and improving what they have, it's going to hurt them if they cut corners on testing or materials, it's also a PR disaster because the media are just waiting to pounce on anything and everything (not just the main problems), just as they did when Microsoft was the giant.


I guess $2000 DSLRs with $2000 lenses are a "step back" from the previous iPhone cameras too. After all, they have a similar purple flare...


----------



## mechati

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Does anything actually work on this thing? Wifi problems, (supposed) 4G problems, maps problems, screen problems, light-leak problems.... now camera problems? Was this thing actually tested?


It is being beta tested as we speak..


----------



## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manyak*
> 
> I guess $2000 DSLRs with $2000 lenses are a "step back" from the previous iPhone cameras too. After all, they have a similar purple flare...


Nope,dlsr lenses have strengths and weaknesses, they are made for a particular task, that is why dslrs are great, because they are highly configurable. You can eliminate that flare by using some kind of filter

Point and shoot cameras are different, they are made to be an all rounder, they sould be able to do simple tasks, iphone 4 camera doesn't have this issue, now theiphone 5 does, they overlooked it, they messed up, accept it or not

Pretty sure they will gonna eliminate this problem on their next iphone


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Very first sentence of his post was "every camera and every lens has an issue".
> IPhone 4 and 5 are different cameras, different lenses, different issues...
> 
> 
> 
> so, what is the issue with iphone 4's camera?
Click to expand...

iPhone 4 is 5 megapixel, iPhone 4S and iPhone 5 are 8 megapixel.
iPhone 4S handles low-light situations better than the iPhone 4, and the iPhone 5 handle low-light situations much better than the 4S.
iPhone 4S had 5 plastic optical elements, the iPhone 4 had 4 plastic optical elements.
iPhone 4S added a hybrid IR filter, and had better color accuracy than the iPhone 4.

The iPhone 4 had a problem in certain lighting conditions (often caused by the LED on the iPhone 4) with having a circle of green color in the center of the image, this was fixed in the iPhone 4S.


Here's the differences between the iPhone 4 and 4S as reviewed by Anandtech: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4971/apple-iphone-4s-review-att-verizon/11

The iPhone 5 has better noise reduction for images over the iPhone 4S and 4.



The iPhone 5's lens is protected by sapphire crystal which is more scratch resistant than previous iPhones and also more clear.

There might be more, that's all I can think of at the moment. Here's a review comparing the iPhone 4S, iPhone 5, and Samsung S3: http://mashable.com/2012/09/30/smartphone-camera-shootout/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing*
> 
> I love how Apple is incapable of admitting they made a mistake. I love how they treat their lemmings.. I mean fan boy's... I mean paying customer's.
> 
> My Mother, Step dad, brother, and sister all use an Iphone 4, Within 6 months each phone had glitch's or problem's. What are the odd's that 4 people under the same roof buy the same device and all 4 have issue's.
> None of the issue's are caused by poor operation of the phone, they just broke or never fully worked. Each one was basicly told "your doing it wrong".
> 
> My Step Dad was actually told to smack his phone on the table after turning on Wifi to get it to pick up network's... Oddly enough the phone dosn't respond well to being smacked around..
> 
> Here's to hoping that people wise up and move from such an overpriced worthless device. I will take my cheap Samsung Vitality (cricket phone, pretty decent one for the price too!) over an apple any day..


I think your family may have had some bad luck. The company I work for develops iOS and Android games, we have about 75 iOS devices and 30-40 Android devices laying around, of all of those devices I believe 1 Android and 1 iOS device had to be serviced in the last year (was an iPhone in which the home button didn't always respond). Maybe we got lucky, maybe your family was unlucky, but I'm not sure your case was typical enough that the entire brand should be judged as unreliable.


----------



## ghostrider85

Don't want to be an ass but, Iphone 4s being better than iphone 4 doesn't mean that the iphone 4 have issues, those are just limitations.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> Don't want to be an ass but, Iphone 4s being better than iphone 4 doesn't mean that the iphone 4 have issues, those are just limitations.


Again, I was simply saying that I'll take any issues that iPhone 5 camera brings if I can have all of its improvements as well. It's a camera phone, not a digital SLR (which I also have), I don't need it to be perfect, I need it to be convenient and work well in most everyday situations, and it looks like it will do just fine for that.

OCN puts the iPhone under a microscope, but neglects to do the same with any other brand, it's a childish double standard.


----------



## brasco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manyak*
> 
> I guess $2000 DSLRs with $2000 lenses are a "step back" from the previous iPhone cameras too. After all, they have a similar purple flare...


Again, completely missing or deliberately ignoring my point, flaring on any other device is irrelevant, if this is supposed to be an improvement on the 4S' camera, that's the only thing it needs to be compared to.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brasco*
> 
> Again, completely missing or deliberately ignoring my point, flaring on any other device is irrelevant, if this is supposed to be an improvement on the 4S' camera, that's the only thing it needs to be compared to.


It is by far sharper, captures by far more detail, has more dynamic range, and is better in low light than the iPhone 4S.

To me, that's an improvement.


----------



## Concept_357

OCN members pretending they know how cameras work. It's called flaring, even high-end DSLR lenses exhibit this... sheeeeeeshhh


----------



## Concept_357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> Nope,dlsr lenses have strengths and weaknesses, they are made for a particular task, that is why dslrs are great, because they are highly configurable. You can eliminate that flare by using some kind of filter
> Point and shoot cameras are different, they are made to be an all rounder, they sould be able to do simple tasks, iphone 4 camera doesn't have this issue, now theiphone 5 does, they overlooked it, they messed up, accept it or not
> Pretty sure they will gonna eliminate this problem on their next iphone


Rofl I wish you could eliminate flares using a filter







If said filter existed, they would sell like hotcakes!!!


----------



## Homeles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Concept_357*
> 
> OCN members pretending they know how cameras work. It's called flaring, even high-end DSLR lenses exhibit this... sheeeeeeshhh


Seems particularly bad in the iPhone 5 though.


----------



## orick

I think we need to know if all iphone 5 camera have this issue or only some do.

If they all do, then it's a design limitation. Sucks for you guys who are bothered by it but that's the trade off.

If only some do, then it's a defect and Apple should be able to exchange the defective ones with new ones.

So the letter from Apple says it's normal behavior. Do we know for sure all iphone 5's have this issue? Or is this guy getting suckered into keeping a defective unit?


----------



## Stealth Pyros

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orick*
> 
> I think we need to know if all iphone 5 camera have this issue or only some do.
> 
> If they all do, then it's a design limitation. Sucks for you guys who are bothered by it but that's the trade off.
> 
> If only some do, then it's a defect and Apple should be able to exchange the defective ones with new ones.
> 
> So the letter from Apple says it's normal behavior. Do we know for sure all iphone 5's have this issue? Or is this guy getting suckered into keeping a defective unit?


Likely getting suckered by the looks of it. If it's not happening to every iP5 regardless of it being "normal" of cameras, it's not "normal" at all.


----------



## faMine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Riou*
> 
> 
> That is odd. iPhone 4 looks like sunlight. iPhone 5 looks like a Galick Gun blast.


They built Instagram into the camera?


----------



## Concept_357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stealth Pyros*
> 
> Likely getting suckered by the looks of it. If it's not happening to every iP5 regardless of it being "normal" of cameras, it's not "normal" at all.


Oh then if that's the case, then that's a a real legitimate production problem! My point was just to show how it's impossible to avoid flaring but if flaring is worst on selective IP5s then yea that's a real problem.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Again, I was simply saying that I'll take any issues that iPhone 5 camera brings if I can have all of its improvements as well. It's a camera phone, not a digital SLR (which I also have), I don't need it to be perfect, I need it to be convenient and work well in most everyday situations, and it looks like it will do just fine for that.
> OCN puts the iPhone under a microscope, but neglects to do the same with any other brand, it's a childish double standard.


Incorrect, Apple puts it iPhone on a pedestal and many of it's users do the exact same. Therefore it comes under intense scrutiny from people who view Apple as a shady company that creates crap products, but markets them in a fashion much akin to coercing a well to buy some of your fine 100% H2O, or perhaps getting an Eskimo to pay you an advance on some latest version snow.

There's a reason the iPhone is mockingly called "the Jesus Phone" and there's a reason no one gives half a crap whether or not the Nexus has lens flare.


----------



## jojoenglish85

I seriously hope these Iphone fanatics aren't the same people that BASH AMD for their lackluster CPU's. Because that would be awkward in itself.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Again, I was simply saying that I'll take any issues that iPhone 5 camera brings if I can have all of its improvements as well. It's a camera phone, not a digital SLR (which I also have), I don't need it to be perfect, I need it to be convenient and work well in most everyday situations, and it looks like it will do just fine for that.
> OCN puts the iPhone under a microscope, but neglects to do the same with any other brand, it's a childish double standard.
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect, Apple puts it iPhone on a pedestal and many of it's users do the exact same. Therefore it comes under intense scrutiny from people who view Apple as a shady company that creates crap products, but markets them in a fashion much akin to coercing a well to buy some of your fine 100% H2O, or perhaps getting an Eskimo to pay you an advance on some latest version snow.
> 
> There's a reason the iPhone is mockingly called "the Jesus Phone" and there's a reason no one gives half a crap whether or not the Nexus has lens flare.
Click to expand...

Really tired of hearing that overused argument. Every manufacturer puts their device on a pedestal, Apple is just really good about marketing so you hear more about it.

Is it too much to ask that in my news feed that I get equal coverage, information, and scrutiny of all mobile devices, among other things? I guess so.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> OCN puts the iPhone under a microscope, but neglects to do the same with any other brand, it's a childish double standard.


yep


----------



## orick

Well some one must have a iphone5 here to test and see if its same with all iphone 5's. Steelbom?


----------



## TheBlindDeafMute

Wait in line for days to get an iphone 5.....









....Get it home to find out it's worse than an iPhone 4.


----------



## Lettuceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> OCN puts the iPhone under a microscope, but neglects to do the same with any other brand, it's a childish double standard.
> 
> 
> 
> yep
Click to expand...

It is true, but whats the fun in scrutinizing a product you like?

The reason people do it to Apple is because they have a bad rep here, so it feels good to tear apart their products.


----------



## zylonite

As I said before. people will still buy it even if the device doesn’t boot up because fan flare for apple....


----------



## un1b4ll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> OCN puts the iPhone under a microscope, but neglects to do the same with any other brand, it's a childish double standard.


We're *supposed* to be better than this.


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Really tired of hearing that overused argument. Every manufacturer puts their device on a pedestal, Apple is just really good about marketing so you hear more about it.
> Is it too much to ask that in my news feed that I get equal coverage, information, and scrutiny of all mobile devices, among other things? I guess so.


No, what Apple does it put out an average phone, and calls it the greatest thing ever. Then when problems start happening with it, that should have been avoided, they say that 'its supposed to be like that".

The aluminum chips and scuffs? That's normal.
Maps doesn't work? It's the most powerful maps ever (they did change this).
Cell reception drops when you hold it one way? You're holding it wrong.
Camera does insane purple-lens flare? Don't take pictures of bright things.

The reason we scrutinize the iPhone more than any other is because Apple REFUSES to admit it's made a mistake. Other companies actually own up to them.


----------



## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> No, what Apple does it put out an average phone, and calls it the greatest thing ever. Then when problems start happening with it, that should have been avoided, they say that 'its supposed to be like that".
> The aluminum chips and scuffs? That's normal.
> Maps doesn't work? It's the most powerful maps ever (they did change this).
> Cell reception drops when you hold it one way? You're holding it wrong.
> Camera does insane purple-lens flare? Don't take pictures of bright things.
> The reason we scrutinize the iPhone more than any other is because Apple REFUSES to admit it's made a mistake. Other companies actually own up to them.


Yup, the most powerful maps evar
The military standard anodizing
Etc. Etc.

Now fanboys are defending the camera saying that this purple flare is normal and acceptable, even apple says that "YOU ARE HOLDING IT WRONG!" HA!

"IPHONE 5 CAN TAKE AWESOME PICTURES IN LOW LIGHT"
what they really meant is that it can only take decent pictures in low lights, because it sucks at bright lights.

Have fun taking pictures in the dark.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> No, what Apple does it put out an average phone, and calls it the greatest thing ever. Then when problems start happening with it, that should have been avoided, they say that 'its supposed to be like that".
> The aluminum chips and scuffs? That's normal.
> Maps doesn't work? It's the most powerful maps ever (they did change this).
> Cell reception drops when you hold it one way? You're holding it wrong.
> Camera does insane purple-lens flare? Don't take pictures of bright things.
> The reason we scrutinize the iPhone more than any other is because Apple REFUSES to admit it's made a mistake. Other companies actually own up to them.
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, the most powerful maps evar
> The military standard anodizing
> Etc. Etc.
> 
> Now fanboys are defending the camera saying that this purple flare is normal and acceptable, even apple says that "YOU ARE HOLDING IT WRONG!" HA!
> 
> "IPHONE 5 CAN TAKE AWESOME PICTURES IN LOW LIGHT"
> what they really meant is that it can only take decent pictures in low lights, because it sucks at bright lights.
> 
> Have fun taking pictures in the dark.
Click to expand...

There's a chance you might be blowing this out or proportion a bit. A slight chance.


----------



## Sylon

We are all just mad that Apple has turned technology to fashion. Remember how Consumer Report didn't recommend the iPhone 4? Didn't even scratch their sales because people simply do not care. It's sad, what is popular is rarely the best.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sylon*
> 
> We are all just mad that Apple has turned technology to fashion. Remember how Consumer Report didn't recommend the iPhone 4? Didn't even scratch their sales because people simply do not care. It's sad, what is popular is rarely the best.


Yes but even among those "in-the-know", iPhone is considered to be top-tier, it's not as if it's absolutely terrible in every aspect yet still the top seller. It is near the top in many categories, and many would considering it very well rounded.


----------



## Acroma

Do they have an app to fix it? That could be the "New Feature"!


----------



## andrews2547

I was going to get an iPhone 5, but with all the problems it has had, I will probably just end up getting that Motorola Razr with the Intel Atom.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manyak*
> 
> Wow, a lens that exhibits glare when shot at a light source. Unheard of.


It's about the colour of the glare...


----------



## AznDud333

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Again, I was simply saying that I'll take any issues that iPhone 5 camera brings if I can have all of its improvements as well. It's a camera phone, not a digital SLR (which I also have), I don't need it to be perfect, I need it to be convenient and work well in most everyday situations, and it looks like it will do just fine for that.
> OCN puts the iPhone under a microscope, but neglects to do the same with any other brand, it's a childish double standard.


not true...
take samsung for example..when their gs3 exploded/caught fire, samsung ACTUALLY RESPONDED WITH AN INVESTIGATION, instead of telling the user you're using it wrong LOL...if you can get that from samsung, who makes less profit per phone..you should expect it from apple but nope...i mean look at all these issues/ridiculous lawsuits


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AznDud333*
> 
> not true...
> take samsung for example..when their gs3 exploded/caught fire, samsung ACTUALLY RESPONDED WITH AN INVESTIGATION, instead of telling the user you're using it wrong LOL...if you can get that from samsung, who makes less profit per phone..you should expect it from apple but nope...i mean look at all these issues/ridiculous lawsuits


First, when the GS3 thing happened more than half of OCN said something along the lines of "these things happen sometimes" when the same thing happens to an Apple product they act like it's the end of the world.

Second, Samsung responding with an investigation has nothing to do with the way people reacted about the phone catching fire in the first place.

Third, lawsuits have nothing to do with how good or bad a product is.


----------



## RagingCain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manyak*
> 
> Chromatic Aberration is different. Different wavelengths of light get diverted differently when moving from air to glass and back, so they get split up a bit by the time they hit the sensor on the camera, which are really noticeable at the edges of objects where colors change. Similar to what happens with prisms, like on the cover of Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon. This is most likely caused by internal reflections of that specific wavelength within the lens itself (at least that's my guess).


Its more than likely a defect in the CCD or thin film distortion as you mentioned.

n1 sin (A) = n2 sin (B), where n1 = air ~ 1.00 and n2 is whatever glass they have ~ 1.33, if there are any additional layers then its n layers of comparison with layer prior.

If one knew the wavelength coming in, such as yellow, determine the angle of incidence, and how many thin layers and their index refraction, you could essentially with basic optics prove Apples flaw relatively easy as you have the wavelength of light (purple) out.


----------



## kpriess

What an insult of a product, with all these problems I would be raging for a refund..


----------



## 161029

This made my day.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Riou*
> 
> 
> That is odd. iPhone 4 looks like sunlight. iPhone 5 looks like a Galick Gun blast.


LMAO.


----------



## ghostrider85

iphone 3G = beta
iphone 3GS = full blown and ironed out.
iphone 4 = beta
iphone 4S = full blown and ironed out.
iphone 5= beta
iphone 5S = full blown and ironed out.

POINT= YOU SHOULD HAVE WAITED FOR THE IPHONE 5S, INSTEAD OF BEING A BETA TESTER


----------



## AznDud333

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> First, when the GS3 thing happened more than half of OCN said something along the lines of "these things happen sometimes" when the same thing happens to an Apple product they act like it's the end of the world.
> Second, Samsung responding with an investigation has nothing to do with the way people reacted about the phone catching fire in the first place.
> Third, lawsuits have nothing to do with how good or bad a product is.


i dont think it makes any difference bro
you guys are saying we're biased against apple, that's because they run an closed platform, they are anti competitive and they treat their customers like poo, their response to all these issues are always something amongst the lines of you're holding it wrong(screen issues, scratched casing issues, camera issues..etc)

we're fond of samsung because they don't always screw us over... or is it samsung's fault that someone microwaved their galaxy s3?

and lawsuit does affect products, suing samsung over rectangles was totally out of line..what were they expecting? everyone switch to making triangular phones right after apple enters the market? fact is they are turning this once competitive market into an monopoly.


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AznDud333*
> 
> i dont think it makes any difference bro
> you guys are saying we're biased against apple, that's because they run an closed platform, they are anti competitive and they treat their customers like poo, their response to all these issues are always something amongst the lines of you're holding it wrong(screen issues, scratched casing issues, camera issues..etc)
> we're fond of samsung because they don't always screw us over... or is it samsung's fault that someone microwaved their galaxy s3?
> and lawsuit does affect products, suing samsung over rectangles was totally out of line..what were they expecting? everyone switch to making triangular phones right after apple enters the market? fact is they are turning this once competitive market into an monopoly.


I never said it was Samsungs fault that guy microwaved his phone. What I said about the way people reacted was before it was discovered he microwaved it.

And again, the way a business is run has nothing to do with the products. By the way you say they treat their customers terribly? When I took my PowerBook into an Apple store (and at the time it was 5 years out of warranty) they replaced the hard drive (which is what was wrong with it) free of charge. They also gave me a new battery for it for free as well. No questions asked, other companies would have said tough luck buy another one.


----------



## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> I never said it was Samsungs fault that guy microwaved his phone. What I said about the way people reacted was before it was discovered he microwaved it.
> And again, the way a business is run has nothing to do with the products. By the way you say they treat their customers terribly? When I took my PowerBook into an Apple store (and at the time it was 5 years out of warranty) they replaced the hard drive (which is what was wrong with it) free of charge. They also gave me a new battery for it for free as well. No questions asked, other companies would have said tough luck buy another one.


those aren't free, you actually paid for it the moment you bought your powerbook


----------



## kpriess

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> And again, the way a business is run has nothing to do with the products.


Oh really..?


----------



## orick

I still think its not a design flow and just some defects apple trying to sucker ppl into not returning. Otherwise a lot reviews would have been complaining about it.


----------



## Digikid

Apple makes fantastic stuff but the iPhone 5 seems to be a failure for them.

C'mon Apple...fess up to your mistakes.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alpsie*
> 
> You better do
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want to see how it turns out.


I took a few photos but I'll have to do a few more and compare against the 4S too. The result varied but I didn't get the same result as in the photo in the source -- on one photo I saw a small purple circle to the right of the sun, and in another I saw a red and green streak which were going from left to right across the photo, and in another photo I saw a purple streak, much like the same purple streak in the photo in the source. These were mostly pointed directly towards the sun, or just to the side of it like the photo in the source.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manyak*
> 
> I guess $2000 DSLRs with $2000 lenses are a "step back" from the previous iPhone cameras too. After all, they have a similar purple flare...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manyak*
> 
> It is by far sharper, captures by far more detail, has more dynamic range, and is better in low light than the iPhone 4S.
> 
> To me, that's an improvement.


This, and this.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orick*
> 
> Well some one must have a iphone5 here to test and see if its same with all iphone 5's. Steelbom?


I'll do a small comparison with the 4S and 5 and see what it turns up. See the very top part of my post as well.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> iphone 3G = beta
> iphone 3GS = full blown and ironed out.
> iphone 4 = beta
> iphone 4S = full blown and ironed out.
> iphone 5= beta
> iphone 5S = full blown and ironed out.
> 
> POINT= YOU SHOULD HAVE WAITED FOR THE IPHONE 5S, INSTEAD OF BEING A BETA TESTER


Why are they "betas"? They all worked fine.


----------



## donnybrasco

This is a very generalized and opinionated statement but....

I had a feeling once Steve Jobs passed away, apple was going to head south. How much south? We will see. I have seen significant changes within apple (viewed from the outside) that reinforce my thoughts.


----------



## Awieos

Apple use two way asymmetrical . They forced consumer to change to fix the problem instead apple itself do nothing. However it is not good for long term strategies.
Got incoming final exam asking about this thing.. haha


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> those aren't free, you actually paid for it the moment you bought your powerbook


So by that logic, when my 7 year old Dell broke, they should have replaced it, not questions asked even though the warranty ran out because I already paid for it?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kpriess*
> 
> Oh really..?


Yes really. What company sues another one for patent infringement (stupid patents I know) and then suddenly decides they are going to make a new product or change how well an existing product is made as a direct result of the lawsuit?


----------



## AznDud333

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> I never said it was Samsungs fault that guy microwaved his phone. What I said about the way people reacted was before it was discovered he microwaved it.
> And again, the way a business is run has nothing to do with the products. By the way you say they treat their customers terribly? When I took my PowerBook into an Apple store (and at the time it was 5 years out of warranty) they replaced the hard drive (which is what was wrong with it) free of charge. They also gave me a new battery for it for free as well. No questions asked, other companies would have said tough luck buy another one.


and what why do you think people respond differently? because they hate the fruit apple and never heard of samsung? please... because we are sick and tired of apple, samsung is actually bringing something new(then again, so is apple..suing other phone manufacturers over a pre-existing shape is unheard of) this is an overclocking forum bro..can you overclock your iphone?

let me add to your last part btw, they replaced the hard drive in your out of warranty powerbook? that sounds very inconsistent from what i hear from apple( you're holding it wrong?), so Asus replaced one cracked screen in the nexus 7(refer to xda) all of the sudden they have the best company in the world and they fix all cracked screens(even tho they dont, but they do because they did it once?)
get the irony here?


----------



## grizzlyblunting

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> That... is... insanely awesome. Tis' a feature
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I'm around. And I... not in an Apple thread? What is this blasphemy?!
> Nope
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>>>>
> I think I'll take a photo of the sun with my dads iPhone 5 and see what happens.


I woulda thunk Mr. Apple of OCN would have been first in line for an iphone 5...


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> That... is... insanely awesome. Tis' a feature
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I'm around. And I... not in an Apple thread? What is this blasphemy?!
> Nope
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>>>>
> I think I'll take a photo of the sun with my dads iPhone 5 and see what happens.
> 
> 
> 
> I woulda thunk Mr. Apple of OCN would have been first in line for an iphone 5...
Click to expand...

Maybe people aren't as sheepish as most of OCN would like to think they are. I was defending some Apple products, and criticizing others before I owned an iPhone or iMac. Just as I defend Android phones in many cases and do not own one.

Hating on Apple is just the "cool thing to do" so it seems. I've never been one to care what others think, or follow fads. I like what I like for reasons that are my own, and I don't care what reasons others like other products and don't criticize them for it.

Live and let live, a lesson most of OCN could stand to learn.


----------



## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> So by that logic, when my 7 year old Dell broke, they should have replaced it, not questions asked even though the warranty ran out because I already paid for it?
> Yes really. What company sues another one for patent infringement (stupid patents I know) and then suddenly decides they are going to make a new product or change how well an existing product is made as a direct result of the lawsuit?


Nope, its only applicable to apple, because they charge arm and leg for their products


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> I woulda thunk Mr. Apple of OCN would have been first in line for an iphone 5...


Nah I don't need one. I upgraded from my 3GS to a 4S last year but then I got myself an iPad 3 and I ended up just using the phone for calling, texting and the occasional game, etc., so I sold it and went back to my 3GS. I'll jump on the iPad 4 though.


----------



## Clairvoyant129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> Nope, its only applicable to apple, because they charge arm and leg for their products


I dropped my 32GB iPhone 4S and shattered the front glass but they gave me a new phone of charge. When I bought my retina MacBook Pro, shipping got delayed several times due to high demand so they upgraded my CPU for free.


----------



## AznDud333

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> I dropped my 32GB iPhone 4S and shattered the front glass but they gave me a new phone of charge. When I bought my retina MacBook Pro, shipping got delayed several times due to high demand so they upgraded my CPU for free.


perks of under 200dollar manufacturing cost obtained through the use of slave labour, we're all proud proud people aren't we?


----------



## AusNorman

If you want a good camera... buy one!?

dont ever expect to see a mobile phone ever to beat a CAMERA!

that said, I own a 4s n ipad2


----------



## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AusNorman*
> 
> If you want a good camera... buy one!?
> dont ever expect to see a mobile phone ever to beat a CAMERA!
> that said, I own a 4s n ipad2


we are not expecting too much, we are just expecting it to work correctly, without any discoloration and stuff like that. now we can't even use this phone to shoot bright areas


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *AusNorman*
> 
> If you want a good camera... buy one!?
> dont ever expect to see a mobile phone ever to beat a CAMERA!
> that said, I own a 4s n ipad2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we are not expecting too much, we are just expecting it to work correctly, without any discoloration and stuff like that. now we can't even use this phone to shoot bright areas
Click to expand...

Specifically, bright areas with the Sun directly in the frame.


----------



## banded1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> I dropped my 32GB iPhone 4S and shattered the front glass but they gave me a new phone of charge. When I bought my retina MacBook Pro, shipping got delayed several times due to high demand so they upgraded my CPU for free.


so in other words, its doing what one would expect any company to do.

my 4-almost-5 year old dell (3 years out of warranty), got a free battery replacement (a good battery - not one of the crap ones, as id had mine built with a good battery), charger with an extended cord (woopty do, but whatever it was free), and an illuminated keyboard (previous one wasnt illuminated, but id had issues with their keyboards a few times while under warranty). all because i emailed asking about issues with the battery just cutting out randomly or not completely charging (other inconsistencies too). this was about 6-8 months ago i think?

does this mean everyone will be treated as such? no. does this mean dell has great customer service? no (tbh, theyre pretty shady sometimes). a few peoples experiences with a company dont automatically make them "good" or "bad". now i havent heard much bad about apple services, but then again, most of the people i know who have had issues were still under warranty.


----------



## Recipe7

Apple is the worst. So is Android.

I'll stick with my 7 year old Nokia. Calling and texting work perfectly on it... can't fix something which isn't broken.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Recipe7*
> 
> can't fix something which isn't broken.


yeah but you can add features to it


----------



## Bit_reaper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> No, what Apple does it put out an average phone, and calls it the greatest thing ever. Then when problems start happening with it, that should have been avoided, they say that 'its supposed to be like that".
> The aluminum chips and scuffs? That's normal.
> Maps doesn't work? It's the most powerful maps ever (they did change this).
> Cell reception drops when you hold it one way? You're holding it wrong.
> Camera does insane purple-lens flare? Don't take pictures of bright things.
> The reason we scrutinize the iPhone more than any other is because Apple REFUSES to admit it's made a mistake. Other companies actually own up to them.


As others have said every company will present there product as the greatest thing ever. Also Apple is hardly the only one to avoid confessing to real issues. Does that change the fact there is actually a problem and people should complain. Hell no. People should complain and complain a lot.

The aluminum chips and scuffs? Everyone should be made aware that this is not normal or acceptable and the fact is that Apple made a piss poor job with the coating. Kinda reminds me of how EK never admitted to the fact that there nikel plating was flawed.

Maps doesn't work? One of the few thins Apple actually admitted being sub-pair.

Cell reception drops when you hold it one way? You're holding it wrong. a real design flaw. Good thing most people did not swallow Apples BS on this one.

Camera does insane purple-lens flare? Now some people have made the argument that the camera is actually better then the 4S's but the way I see it is that Apple introduced a very serious issue in an attempt to compete with other makers that where fitting better cameras to there phones. I'm not 100% sure but from tests I have seen it seams that top of the line Nokias and Android phone cameras performance about as well or better then the 4S and do not suffer form the purple sun syndrome.


----------



## pcfoo

This is not a sensor issue, nor processing issue, so highly unlikely to be remedied with a SW update. Maybe offseted a tiny bit by reducing the blooming effect but thats it.
Probably the mistake was to use sapphire the 1st place: its crystallized structure is probably not that easy to produce with consistently passable optical properties - even on that tiny size.

I doubt that the original test samples had that, probably being produced under different conditions and/or handpicked
- who would not cheat a bit to secure a contract with apple supplying those things?









If sapphire was the magic answer to scratches and was workable, I would guess lens manufacturers would have jumped on it for decades now.

You can actually see CA produced even on shady areas.

Apple would not be attacked if they would simply brag less, but they've worked so hard to get on that "pedestal" that now they will admit nothing that would hurt their image.
Exactly because they have fans and loyalists that believe only what the mother-ship says. Which company would do different? Rly...probably none.

Jobs has been apologetic in ages were Apple was in the pit for other mistakes, but back then it was all about selling honesty and the stock of the company was in a completely different spot.
Right now, publicly admitting mistakes would cost the company and key investors BILLIONS with even the slightest of stock depreciation, forget about the endless food for the trolls and vultures that are waiting to bite the fat ox when its not looking for it .

Again, Apple is immoral in many ways, but this stance is in many cases justified. It is a public company, and like such it wont sacrifice anything promised to the shareholders unless all other "resources" have been depleted. And apparently it will take much more than that to "bend" the will of the i-croud. Don't forget that with these faults, it is still probably the best camera they will have, as the best camera is the one you have with you.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Really tired of hearing that overused argument. Every manufacturer puts their device on a pedestal, Apple is just really good about marketing so you hear more about it.
> Is it too much to ask that in my news feed that I get equal coverage, information, and scrutiny of all mobile devices, among other things? I guess so.


It's really not a tired argument at all.

Apple comes in two user flavours. Those that don't like using it/have issues with it, and those that won't shut up about it. That goes across the Apple board spectrum of products.

So, when Apple are all "BESTEST CAMRER EVER" and then it has issues, people make a big deal out of it.

And yes, of course all companies put their stuff on a pedestal, it'd be stupid not to. You couldn't go anywhere this summer without being bombarded with ads for the SGS3, but all the other phone companies seem to do things differently from Apple and all their users seem less uppity than Apple users.

Some of the people on my friends list (IRL and Online) are in actual disgust that I didn't get an iPhone like them. They literally act like the guy in that Mac video. It's super, super annoying. All the guys I know using Android aren't like that. There's a MASSIVE contrast between the two groups of people and therefore, it stands to reason there's a MASSIVE difference between how each device is met by the media.


----------



## un1b4ll

I open these threads to see sheep on a bandwagon high fiving each other as they ride into the sunset of ignorance. It's at the point now that it's comical how inversely proportionate rational thinking and blind Apple hate is. My absolute favorite is "If Steve was here, the company wouldn't be going down the drain". The company isn't going down the drain- You know less than nothing.


----------



## Mike395

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> It's really not a tired argument at all.
> *Apple comes in two user flavours. Those that don't like using it/have issues with it, and those that won't shut up about it.* That goes across the Apple board spectrum of products.
> So, when Apple are all "BESTEST CAMRER EVER" and then it has issues, people make a big deal out of it.
> And yes, of course all companies put their stuff on a pedestal, it'd be stupid not to. You couldn't go anywhere this summer without being bombarded with ads for the SGS3, but all the other phone companies seem to do things differently from Apple and all their users seem less uppity than Apple users.
> Some of the people on my friends list (IRL and Online) are in actual disgust that I didn't get an iPhone like them. They literally act like the guy in that Mac video. It's super, super annoying. All the guys I know using Android aren't like that. There's a MASSIVE contrast between the two groups of people and therefore, it stands to reason there's a MASSIVE difference between how each device is met by the media.


Quite honestly, neither group will shut up about it. There may be some uppity Apple fans, but there's also some snarky Apple haters who will jump on and each every minor issue on an Apple product to use as ammo in their never ending quest to try and prove to the world that Apple products are garbage. Neither group is any more annoying than the other, although on OCN the Apple haters seem to far outnumber the uppity fans you speak of.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Recipe7*
> 
> Apple is the worst. So is Android.
> 
> I'll stick with my 7 year old Nokia. Calling and texting work perfectly on it... can't fix something which isn't broken.


Are you typing that from an Intel 386? It turns out that people do more with their phones than just call and text.


----------



## eternal7trance

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Are you typing that from an Intel 386? It turns out that people do more with their phones than just call and text.


It's taken me forever to upgrade too. I just now upgraded from an old LG brick that is just for talking and texting to a s3.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eternal7trance*
> 
> It's taken me forever to upgrade too. I just now upgraded from an old LG brick that is just for talking and texting to a s3.


use google voice to text. it's kinda awesome.

i tell my phone to call my wife, and it does.

i dont know if that's awesome or not.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eternal7trance*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Are you typing that from an Intel 386? It turns out that people do more with their phones than just call and text.
> 
> 
> 
> It's taken me forever to upgrade too. I just now upgraded from an old LG brick that is just for talking and texting to a s3.
Click to expand...

There's nothing wrong with using something old, if it serves your needs, no need to upgrade. But what I was getting at is that there are those that have different wants or needs, and they're using their phone for more than just calling and texting.


----------



## eternal7trance

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> There's nothing wrong with using something old, if it serves your needs, no need to upgrade. But what I was getting at is that there are those that have different wants or needs, and they're using their phone for more than just calling and texting.


Mine wasn't really a want or a need, my wife just kept bugging me to get one so she could play games with me. It comes in today so who knows. I'm not really a mobile guy.


----------



## Nocturin

dont do it!


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SectorNine50*
> 
> It's because of the stigma Apple and it's fans have created. Talk to any hardcore Apple fan, and they'll tell you about how Apple products "just work," and "never have any problems," and "if a company were to switch to Apple products, they'd no longer need an IT staff" (I hear that one so often it hurts; clearly no idea how much goes into IT beyond the personal computers).
> The best is when you ask them about a problem they are having, they play it off like, "Oh, no it's not a big deal that my computer shuts off suddenly every 15 minutes. A new one just came out, and I was thinking about buying it anyway."
> Ugh. Working with Apple fanboys from an IT standpoint is an absolute nightmare.


I should drive to wherever you are in Oregon and give you a high five!

It makes you want to slam your head against a wall, some of the things they say!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mike395*
> 
> although on OCN the Apple haters seem to far outnumber the uppity fans you speak of.


That is because the more active core group on here have the knowledge and skill set to know better than to fall for Appleism.

I don't own a single Apple device, not because I think they are garbage, I actually like the UI and looks of their products. Their pricing is what keeps myself from making the purchase, I just can't justify buying their product. For every device that has the famous Apple on the cover, there is a much lower cost and typically more effective device I can purchase instead.


----------



## Nocturin

I owned a 32gb iPod once.


----------



## eternal7trance

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> I owned a 32gb iPod once.


Even though I went with an S3 I do like the ipod touch I've had for a few years. No issues with it.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eternal7trance*
> 
> Even though I went with an S3 I do like the ipod touch I've had for a few years. No issues with it.


iPod touch?

hipster.

I had a click wheel


----------



## da tick 07

I came from windows -> android -> ios(iphone4) -> android
I went back to android because of the free apps for the most part and I'm glad I did

Prime example on why people hate on Apple:
They came out and publicly said that the iPhone would crush the GS3 and benchmarks show that it doesn't

I personally like the iPhone 4 and it was a great phone. I have seen many phones where the mute button or home button broke. Also the OEM screen is crap. I got a screen from iphone4part.com and it fell down the stairs and multiple times on concrete(no case) without breaking. The original phone fell off a bed onto carpet and broke. The iphone 5 doesn't show "major" improvements in my eyes. They will always have their loyal fan base but they need to do something amazing to keep drawing more people like insanely huge front and rear cameras with nice lens.

I'm on a Xiaomi Mi 1s right now (for reference)


----------



## eternal7trance

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> iPod touch?
> hipster.
> I had a click wheel


I was holding the iPhone wrong before it was cool. /hipster


----------



## Mygaffer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manyak*
> 
> Every camera and every lens has an issue, the only question is what the issue is and whether or not you can live with it or not. Some cameras are super low res, some suck in low light, some leave noise patterns at high ISOs, some have bad lens flare, some have bad CA. This is why high end camera lenses have like, 100 glass elements in them made with some ridiculously rare materials and coatings, and DSLR bodies have super powerful processors in them. To eliminate this type of stuff. You simply can't beat the laws of physics.
> At the end of the day, dealing with some bad lens flare is a lot better than dealing with the horrible quality of a plastic lens.


I thought the issue here was not the lens flare but its purple color?


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mygaffer*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Manyak*
> 
> Every camera and every lens has an issue, the only question is what the issue is and whether or not you can live with it or not. Some cameras are super low res, some suck in low light, some leave noise patterns at high ISOs, some have bad lens flare, some have bad CA. This is why high end camera lenses have like, 100 glass elements in them made with some ridiculously rare materials and coatings, and DSLR bodies have super powerful processors in them. To eliminate this type of stuff. You simply can't beat the laws of physics.
> At the end of the day, dealing with some bad lens flare is a lot better than dealing with the horrible quality of a plastic lens.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the issue here was not the lens flare but its purple color?
Click to expand...

It was.


----------



## lynxxyarly

I think so many people are so critical of apple (or at least my perception of what other people are thinking based on their reactions to situations involving apple) because of how apple just oozes this smug, better-than-everyone, attitude.

It's one thing to praise your product, and entirely another thing to take to the levels apple (and their buyers) does. I think any kind of scrutiny is brought upon themselves simply by how they perceive themselves and compare themselves to other companies.

To be fair, I like their products, but I refuse to pay the price required to own said products. Their prices are out of control and people just seem to be ok with it - and that's beyond me. I'm not made of money though. I world venture to guess, though, that if I were, I still wouldn't like their prices.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mike395*
> 
> Quite honestly, neither group will shut up about it. There may be some uppity Apple fans, but there's also some snarky Apple haters who will jump on and each every minor issue on an Apple product to use as ammo in their never ending quest to try and prove to the world that Apple products are garbage. Neither group is any more annoying than the other, although on OCN the Apple haters seem to far outnumber the uppity fans you speak of.


Again, ahrdly surprised with the amount of bullcrap coming from Apple users. Noy saying they're all like that, but a lot is generated.


----------



## j3st3r

Man a lot of the people here remind me of the 'autobots' in 1984. You know the 2 minute hate period? OC sometimes reminds me of the 2 day 'hate post' for everything Apple related. Emotional conquest at its best.

Here is what apparently is going in regarding the camera in case anyone wants to become informed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_fringing


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j3st3r*
> 
> Man a lot of the people here remind me of the 'autobots' in 1984. You know the 2 minute hate period? OC sometimes reminds me of the 2 day 'hate post' for everything Apple related. Emotional conquest at its best.
> 
> Here is what apparently is going in regarding the camera in case anyone wants to become informed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_fringing


So the iPhone is out of focus. Gee, I didn't know that.


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j3st3r*
> 
> Here is what apparently is going in regarding the camera in case anyone wants to become informed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_fringing


This is because its out of focus?


----------



## Conspiracy

yea apple chose bad lens coating or something. because that is just awful. shame on them. how did that go unnoticed when testing the phone out...

that is not the same as purple fringing or chromatic aberration which would be more clearly seen on the branches of the trees and the clouds.


----------



## Iblis

Looking through my posts, you'll see I don't comment on Apple - Not really a part of that bandwagon but..

That you can charge nearly a grand for a phone that has thus far:

i. Extremely subpar GPS.
ii. Paint chipping issues.
iii. Quality camera issues.

Among the other interesting stories I hear, is ludicrous.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bit_reaper*
> 
> Camera does insane purple-lens flare? Now some people have made the argument that the camera is actually better then the 4S's but the way I see it is that Apple introduced a very serious issue in an attempt to compete with other makers that where fitting better cameras to there phones. I'm not 100% sure but from tests I have seen it seams that top of the line Nokias and Android phone cameras performance about as well or better then the 4S and do not suffer form the purple sun syndrome.


The tests I've seen show the opposite - that the iP5 camera is better in almost all cases.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mygaffer*
> 
> I thought the issue here was not the lens flare but its purple color?


Lens flares come in all different colors depending on the material the glass and coating are made of. Some are blue, some are green, some are multi-colored, and some don't change the color. Either way, flares are the reason that all professional lenses come with hoods. It's not unique to the iP5 at all.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iblis*
> 
> Looking through my posts, you'll see I don't comment on Apple - Not really a part of that bandwagon but..
> That you can charge nearly a grand for a phone that has thus far:
> i. Extremely subpar GPS.
> ii. Paint chipping issues.
> iii. Quality camera issues.
> Among the other interesting stories I hear, is ludicrous.


Chipping aluminum and a crappy maps app are two different issues altogether. I've always made it a point to avoid anodized aluminum PC cases because of it (and the one time I gave in and bought one - sure enough - it got scratched). And I'm not upgrading my iP4 to iOS6 almost entirely because of the maps. But I really do believe that the whole faulty camera thing is just anti-apple hype. You're not _supposed_ to be able to take perfect pictures shot directly into bright light and have everything come out perfectly exposed or without flare. Could they have done something different that may have given better results? Sure. But that doesn't mean it's faulty.

Complaining about lens flare is like complaining about a PSU that keeps shutting off when you try to overload it. Simple as that.


----------



## Miki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manyak*
> 
> Wow, a lens that exhibits glare when shot at a light source. Unheard of.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *born2bwild*
> 
> I know... it happens with every smartphone (and most cameras), yet people make such a big deal about the iPhone 5 exhibiting it.


But...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Riou*
> 
> 
> 
> That is odd. iPhone 4 looks like sunlight. iPhone 5 looks like a Galick Gun blast.


Yeaaaahhhh someone gets it. ^_^


----------



## Mike395

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> That is because the more active core group on here have the knowledge and skill set to know better than to fall for Appleism.
> I don't own a single Apple device, not because I think they are garbage, I actually like the UI and looks of their products. Their pricing is what keeps myself from making the purchase, I just can't justify buying their product. For every device that has the famous Apple on the cover, there is a much lower cost and typically more effective device I can purchase instead.


I'm not talking about the people who simply don't buy Apple products because they don't appeal to them or they prefer alternatives. I'm talking about those who blow every minor issue out of proportion due to their personal bias against anything Apple. I don't own any Apple products either, but I can't help but roll my eyes at some of the things that incite such strong emotional response when it comes to Apple products. If an LG phone (just as an example, could be any manufacturer) had some lens flare issues, I imagine the responses would be pretty tame, people would talk about it a bit and go on about their business as usual. When an Apple product has an issue, it's untested, a terrible launch, the company's going downhill, inferior product, and we attach scandalous terms to the issue at hand (to be fair, nobody's yet called for "Flare-gate"







).


----------



## j3st3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> So the iPhone is out of focus. Gee, I didn't know that.


I literally posted a 3 1/2 paragraph wiki article and you didn't even read it before coming back with a smartypants comment.
Quote:


> purple fringing (sometimes called PF) is the term for an out-of-focus purple or magenta "ghost" image on a photograph.


It says the purple fringing appears out of focus not the entire photograph.
Quote:


> Most film has relatively low sensitivity to colors outside the visible range, so light spread in the near ultraviolet (UV) or near infrared (IR) rarely has a significant impact on the image recorded. However, sensors used in digital cameras commonly are sensitive to a wider range of wavelengths. Although the lens glass itself filters out much of the UV light, and all digital cameras designed for color photography incorporate filters to reduce red and IR sensitivity, the chromatic aberration can be sufficient for bright out-of-focus violet light to tint nearby dark regions of the image.


3930 you need to stop flaming posts.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mike395*
> 
> I'm not talking about the people who simply don't buy Apple products because they don't appeal to them or they prefer alternatives. I'm talking about those who blow every minor issue out of proportion due to their personal bias against anything Apple. I don't own any Apple products either, but I can't help but roll my eyes at some of the things that incite such strong emotional response when it comes to Apple products. If an LG phone (just as an example, could be any manufacturer) had some lens flare issues, I imagine the responses would be pretty tame, people would talk about it a bit and go on about their business as usual. When an Apple product has an issue, it's untested, a terrible launch, the company's going downhill, inferior product, and we attach scandalous terms to the issue at hand (to be fair, nobody's yet called for "Flare-gate"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).


Again, though, when the company makes a big song and dance about accusing customers of holding their phone "wrong" when there was a glaring hardware issue (Antenna-gate) then they deserve all this kind of media and public attention. Any company that has the guts to blame a hardware problem on users deserves all the belittling they get.


----------



## j3st3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mike395*
> 
> I'm not talking about the people who simply don't buy Apple products because they don't appeal to them or they prefer alternatives. I'm talking about those who blow every minor issue out of proportion due to their personal bias against anything Apple. I don't own any Apple products either, but I can't help but roll my eyes at some of the things that incite such strong emotional response when it comes to Apple products. If an LG phone (just as an example, could be any manufacturer) had some lens flare issues, I imagine the responses would be pretty tame, people would talk about it a bit and go on about their business as usual. When an Apple product has an issue, it's untested, a terrible launch, the company's going downhill, inferior product, and we attach scandalous terms to the issue at hand (to be fair, nobody's yet called for "Flare-gate"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).


You are 100% correct in your observations.


----------



## pratesh

So the company that people praise as being the best in customer support once again blames their customers for their screwups. SMH


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pratesh*
> 
> So the company that people praise as being the best in customer support once again blames their customers for their screwups. SMH


This is my argument.


----------



## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j3st3r*
> 
> I literally posted a 3 1/2 paragraph wiki article and you didn't even read it before coming back with a smartypants comment.
> It says the purple fringing appears out of focus not the entire photograph.
> 3930 you need to stop flaming posts.


What's your point? There is no issue?


----------



## Nocturin

Non-issue is non issue.

You're* just holding it wrong.

*not you


----------



## lurker2501

Who cares, it would still sale like hot cakes even without the camera at all just because it is Apple.


----------



## X-Nine

Ya know, I'm not the average Apple-bashing hooligan.... but even *I* am disenchanted with Apple at this point. First, the Samsung lawsuit, now the iPhone 5 issues. This is not the company I once thought it was. *smh*


----------



## hathornd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Specifically, bright areas with the Sun directly in the frame.


Not particularly. Look back a few pages at the fella who took the picture of the tree, and tell us where the sun is in that one.

-Donny

edit: Page 5, Hybrid's post, not the guy who pointed a camera DIRECTLY at the sun like a genius and took a picture.


----------



## Seid Dark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> people take phone cameras too seriously. all of them suck, they just suck in different ways


There's some phone cameras that are very good, Nokia N8, 808 and Lumia 920 for example.


----------



## ljason8eg

Instead of all this bickering, can someone with this phone take some shots and compare them to the ones in that article? I looked through the thread and couldn't find anything.


----------



## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seid Dark*
> 
> There's some phone cameras that are very good, Nokia N8, 808 and Lumia 920 for example.


and iphone 4/4S


----------



## GTRagnarok

This thing is so overblown. People will find anything to bash Apple with. Same thing happens with the 4S so why wasn't that brought up then?

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/6867454450/quick-review-apple-iphone-5-camera/3

IMO, if you're taking a picture with a really bright light source at the edge, then you really are "holding it wrong".


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AznDud333*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> I dropped my 32GB iPhone 4S and shattered the front glass but they gave me a new phone of charge. When I bought my retina MacBook Pro, shipping got delayed several times due to high demand so they upgraded my CPU for free.
> 
> 
> 
> perks of under 200dollar manufacturing cost obtained through the use of slave labour, we're all proud proud people aren't we?
Click to expand...

What exactly is the point of your comment? He was simply expressing that Apple has great customer service. As if Apple is the only company to use Foxconn? Hardly... all the major companies do. And it's not slave labour either -- you'll want to look at Samsung for that







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *da tick 07*
> 
> I came from windows -> android -> ios(iphone4) -> android
> I went back to android because of the free apps for the most part and I'm glad I did
> 
> Prime example on why people hate on Apple:
> *They came out and publicly said that the iPhone would crush the GS3 and benchmarks show that it doesn't*
> 
> I personally like the iPhone 4 and it was a great phone. I have seen many phones where the mute button or home button broke. Also the OEM screen is crap. I got a screen from iphone4part.com and it fell down the stairs and multiple times on concrete(no case) without breaking. The original phone fell off a bed onto carpet and broke. The iphone 5 doesn't show "major" improvements in my eyes. They will always have their loyal fan base but they need to do something amazing to keep drawing more people like insanely huge front and rear cameras with nice lens.
> 
> I'm on a Xiaomi Mi 1s right now (for reference)


Actually I'm pretty certain that they didn't say that at all. The only benchmark that the GS3 wins in is Geek Bench, which is because it does have a more powerful processor in a multithreaded environment. The 5 however has won most, if not all of the real world tests, and completely slammed it when it comes to graphics performance.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Again, ahrdly surprised with the amount of bullcrap coming from Apple users. Noy saying they're all like that, but a lot is generated.


I see a lot more haters' hatin' than I do fanboys fanboyin'

>>>>>

I was going to post some images but the link posted above by GTRagnarok does the job so I'll just leave it.


----------



## grizzlyblunting

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> What exactly is the point of your comment? He was simply expressing that Apple has great customer service. As if Apple is the only company to use Foxconn? Hardly... all the major companies do. And it's not slave labour either -- you'll want to look at Samsung for that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually I'm pretty certain that they didn't say that at all. The only benchmark that the GS3 wins in is Geek Bench, which is because it does have a more powerful processor in a multithreaded environment. The 5 however has won most, if not all of the real world tests, and completely slammed it when it comes to graphics performance.
> I see a lot more haters' hatin' than I do fanboys fanboyin'
> >>>>>
> I was going to post some images but the link posted above by GTRagnarok does the job so I'll just leave it.


Lower resolution phones will always perform better by comparison. The iphone 5 trash.


----------



## cubanresourceful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> Lower resolution phones will always perform better by comparison. The iphone 5 trash.


Your post makes no sense. Lowering resolution doesn't magically make photos better. By comparison, my iPhone 5 takes better pictures than my GNex. Jelly much?


----------



## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> Lower resolution phones will always perform better by comparison. The iphone 5 trash.


that is just not true, where did you get that? out of your what?


----------



## cubanresourceful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> that is just not true, where did you get that? out of your what?


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> Lower resolution phones will always perform better by comparison. The iphone 5 trash.


I'd love for you to explain how a slightly lower resolution allows the iPhone 5 to best all the real world tests like SunSpider or Peacekeeper. Or how it can achieve roughly double the score of the SGS3 in any graphics benchmark.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> To be fair, since you're located in the US you will never see a quad core option unless you buy an unlocked one from retailers at full price. You also won't get LTE if you do get the international version.
> It doesn't pertain to you at all.


yep this is why ip5 is a better option in the us. it's like samsung wants us not to buy an s3 or something. so they gimped the crap out of it _just for us_


----------



## Clairvoyant129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> yep this is why ip5 is a better option in the us. it's like samsung wants us not to buy an s3 or something. so they gimped the crap out of it _just for us_


Not Samsung's fault. Their Exynos SoC wasn't compatible with US LTE.


----------



## Mike395

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Again, though, when the company makes a big song and dance about accusing customers of holding their phone "wrong" when there was a glaring hardware issue (Antenna-gate) then they deserve all this kind of media and public attention. Any company that has the guts to blame a hardware problem on users deserves all the belittling they get.


I could delve into how other companies paint their product in a glorious light, provide damage control when they feel it necessary, or blatantly lie to their customers, but it would just be a distraction from the bigger picture, which is that when people feel too strongly about a company or product line it makes any rational discussion of said product impossible. That is why OCN, which can _at times_ be an informative place to come to for discussion, degrades into near youtube comment-like drivel whenever Apple products are being discussed.

I get it, there are things about the company that people don't like so they make it a point on their agenda to bash their products whenever possible. It would however be nice if these people came with a disclaimer so that the nonsense could more easily be weeded out.


----------



## xTristinx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> Lower resolution phones will always perform better by comparison. The iphone 5 trash.


As much as i disliked my iPhone 5, I just wanted to bring to your attention that most to all benchmarks are done off screen........ therefore your statement is incorrect to the point where you are comparing benchs.


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> *Sun is usually purple.* Your eyes and all other cameras in the world has a bug. iPhone 5 shows the truth. How can iPhone 5 is wrong ? It is from apple, right?


According to this source, sort of
Quote:


> if you viewed the sun from space it would be a "peach pinkish" hue.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2011/jul/14/weatherwatch-sun-colour-space

I can't find the link to the study that claimed that and I can't be bothered to look for it.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Guys, none of this matters.

You know why none of this matters?

This is why none of this matters......

Edit: When I made this post (about 20 seconds before the end) it was at £3,100 lol.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> Guys, none of this matters.
> 
> You know why none of this matters?
> 
> This is why none of this matters......
> 
> Edit: When I made this post (about 20 seconds before the end) it was at £3,100 lol.


Holy profit batman


----------



## Biscuits_N_Gravy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> Guys, none of this matters.
> You know why none of this matters?
> This is why none of this matters......
> Edit: When I made this post (about 20 seconds before the end) it was at £3,100 lol.


Wow, I'm in the wrong business...


----------



## Rubers

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?!?!







































£6k for a phone?!


----------



## Rubers

LOL

Contact Jake....

Username... princesshelzy

Contact JAKE.

princess


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> Guys, none of this matters.
> You know why none of this matters?
> This is why none of this matters......
> Edit: When I made this post (about 20 seconds before the end) it was at £3,100 lol.


What ever the bidders were smoking must have been strong.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> Guys, none of this matters.
> You know why none of this matters?
> This is why none of this matters......
> Edit: When I made this post (about 20 seconds before the end) it was at £3,100 lol.


With a seller with that low of feedback and considering how much those phones have been going for on average, I have a feeling that's a fake bid.


----------



## HowHardCanItBe

Okay, lets get back on topic shall we? There is no need to pass euphemism or comment about one's sexual orientation. Okay?

Cheers


----------



## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> I wasn't talking sales
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the Alienware performs better and yeah, for the amount you overpaid for the Apple, you bet you got a "free" hard drive replacement.


that's the reason why i told him that "IT'S NOT ACTUALLY FREE, YOU ALREADY PAID FOR IT THE MOMENT YOU BOUGHT YOUR DEVICE"


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> that's the reason why i told him that "IT'S NOT ACTUALLY FREE, YOU ALREADY PAID FOR IT THE MOMENT YOU BOUGHT YOUR DEVICE"


So by that logic, if anything breaks (even when out of warranty) everyone should get a replacement because we already paid for it?


----------



## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> So by that logic, if anything breaks (even when out of warranty) everyone should get a replacement because we already paid for it?


with apple? yes.

i don't know why you still insist that apple customer service is high and mighty even after they blame their hardware issues to their customers.

YOU'RE HOLDING IT WRONG!


----------



## Conspiracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> with apple? yes.


----------



## ghostrider85

ALL CAMERAS HAVE THIS ISSUE, really? there is something wrong with mine then.


----------



## Conspiracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> ALL CAMERAS HAVE THIS ISSUE, really? there is something wrong with mine then.


not the same problem


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> with apple? yes.
> i don't know why you still insist that apple customer service is high and mighty even after they blame their hardware issues to their customers.
> YOU'RE HOLDING IT WRONG!


Quote:


> "IT'S NOT ACTUALLY FREE, YOU ALREADY PAID FOR IT THE MOMENT YOU BOUGHT YOUR DEVICE"


That applies to everything you have paid for with money. I would love to buy something from you one day, that way if whatever it is I bought from you breaks, you have to fix it or give me a new one and if it breaks again you will have to fix/replace it and so on. After all I would have paid for it so technically it wouldn't be free.

By the way, customer service and the CEO/PR guy saying "you're holding it wrong" isn't really customer service.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> ALL CAMERAS HAVE THIS ISSUE, really? there is something wrong with mine then.


Where's the purple in the glare?


----------



## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> That applies to everything you have paid for with money. I would love to buy something from you one day, that way if whatever it is I bought from you breaks, you have to fix it or give me a new one and if it breaks again you will have to fix/replace it and so on. After all I would have paid for it so technically it wouldn't be free.
> By the way, customer service and the CEO/PR guy saying "you're holding it wrong" isn't really customer service.
> Where's the purple in the glare?


yeah, i can sell you my laptop for 1200, i'll give you a free hardrive, hell i'll make it two, make it three!

there is no purple glare with that picture because there is something wrong with my crappy camera, purple glare is normal right?


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> yeah, i can sell you my laptop for 1200, i'll give you a free hardrive, hell i'll make it two, make it three!
> there is no purple glare with that picture because there is something wrong with my crappy camera, purple glare is normal right?


I'm not talking about just hard drives, I'm talking about everything and if it doesn't last forever (and I mean literally forever, not just a long time) then by your logic you ripped me off.

I never said purple glare is normal.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Right, but a £600 laptop will compete in size, weight, battery life and performance AND it doesn't come with OSX. There really is no contest.


Nuh uh. Maybe in performance.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> ALL CAMERAS HAVE THIS ISSUE, really? there is something wrong with mine then.


All cameras have different issues. You can see vertical red and green streaks of light on the tree that's towards the right of the centre of the photo.


----------



## Conspiracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Nuh uh. Maybe in performance.
> All cameras have different issues. You can see vertical red and green streaks of light on the tree that's towards the right of the centre of the photo.


thats called a lens flare. and cameras dont really handle that differently its the lenses that handle it differently more than anything


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conspiracy*
> 
> thats called a lens flare. and cameras dont really handle that differently its the lenses that handle it differently more than anything


Yeah, you're right, that's what I meant to say.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conspiracy*
> 
> thats called a lens flare. and cameras dont really handle that differently its the lenses that handle it differently more than anything


The red and green stripes in that photo don't look like lens flare. They look like they are caused by the plastic cover in front of the lens.

But still, those artifacts, and the fact that 3/4 of that image is completely washed out, just goes to show that no camera is free of flaws, and produces some sort of glare and/or flare when a light source is in the frame or directly hitting the lens.


----------



## Homeles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Apple comes in two user flavours. Those that don't like using it/have issues with it, and those that won't shut up about it. That goes across the Apple board spectrum of products.


Textbook example of a false dichotomy.


----------



## Conspiracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manyak*
> 
> The red and green stripes in that photo don't look like lens flare. They look like they are caused by the plastic cover in front of the lens.
> But still, those artifacts, and the fact that 3/4 of that image is completely washed out, just goes to show that no camera is free of flaws, and produces some sort of glare and/or flare when a light source is in the frame or directly hitting the lens.


any digital camera shot towards the sun and exposed for something backlit will have a washed out low contrast look. happens to my 7D and 70-200 f2.8 mkII when shooting sports into the sun.

the different looks seen from a lens flare are the result of how well the lens is coated and the quality of the glass inside. for a cell phone i wouldnt ever expect it to handle lens flare incredibly well


----------



## perfectblade

alienware is not comparable. for one, only like one of their models is portable.


----------



## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conspiracy*
> 
> any digital camera shot towards the sun and exposed for something backlit will have a washed out low contrast look. happens to my 7D and 70-200 f2.8 mkII when shooting sports into the sun.
> the different looks seen from a lens flare are the result of how well the lens is coated and the quality of the glass inside. for a cell phone i wouldnt ever expect it to handle lens flare incredibly well


This! Purple flare is a different story though, it is just not acceptable.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> This! Purple flare is a different story though, it is just not acceptable.


Why? Why isn't it acceptable? It happens when you practically try and take a picture of the sun! I suck at photography, and know very little, but one thing I do know is you don't ever try and take a photo of something that has a massive and bright light source directly behind it. Pretty sure the sun counts as a massive and bright light source......


----------



## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Why? Why isn't it acceptable? It happens when you practically try and take a picture of the sun! I suck at photography, and know very little, but one thing I do know is you don't ever try and take a photo of something that has a massive and bright light source directly behind it. Pretty sure the sun counts as a massive and bright light source......


This is not just about the sun, campfire, lightbulb, any light source.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> This is not just about the sun, campfire, lightbulb, any light source.


Are you going to finish that statement?

Because if you take just about any camera and take a photo of something with a bright light source behind it, you are going to get some adverse impact.


----------



## grizzlyblunting

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Are you going to finish that statement?
> Because if you take just about any camera and take a photo of something with a bright light source behind it, you are going to get some adverse impact.


The issue here is the distinct purple hue, not the fact there is an adverse effect from poor photography skills. It's a unique effect, akin to instagram. There are various reasons for it, which have been explained numerous times in this thread. it really isn't important to note anymore, the iphone 5 just has a bad lens.


----------



## Conspiracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Are you going to finish that statement?
> Because if you take just about any camera and take a photo of something with a bright light source behind it, you are going to get some adverse impact.


i wouldnt say adverse impact. it seriously depends on the lens itself and the experience level of the person taking the picture. if you leave a camera in auto exposure mode dont expect great results. but when properly exposed, a backlit subject will make for a very nice image especially if fill light is provided to make the subject really pop. also not having the light source in the frame obviously will eliminate the issue of lens flare completely. the image will still need some touching up but honestly there are few images straight out of camera that dont need at least minor touch up to make them pop just a little. so in all honestly using the words 'adverse impact' is a far stretch to put it nicely


----------



## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Are you going to finish that statement?
> Because if you take just about any camera and take a photo of something with a bright light source behind it, you are going to get some adverse impact.


that adverse effect thatyou are talking about is normal and acceptable, we cannot eliminate glare, it WIll be there if you aim your camera at a light source, the unacceptable thing is when this glare becomes a purple glare, which is not normal at all


----------



## Rubers

Yeah, Steve Jobs accuses people of holding the iPhone 4 wrong, then Customer services sell people $29.99 bumpers to stop the issue, that supposedly wasn't an issue. Yeah, GREAT customer service.

Hardware experts called it an hardware issue, Apple called it a software issue (ask DuckieHo for his opinion on it. And DuckieHo > most people) and then magically released a revision without the issue.


----------



## grizzlyblunting

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Yeah, Steve Jobs accuses people of holding the iPhone 4 wrong, then Customer services sell people $29.99 bumpers to stop the issue, that supposedly wasn't an issue. Yeah, GREAT customer service.
> Hardware experts called it an hardware issue, Apple called it a software issue (ask DuckieHo for his opinion on it. And DuckieHo > most people) and then magically released a revision without the issue.


They also had the 'free bumper case' program for a while where you could pick the apple case or any number of competitor's cases and receive them free of charge. That was pretty upstanding, and definitely should have continued throughout the iphone 4's life span.


----------



## j3st3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> with apple? yes.
> i don't know why you still insist that apple customer service is high and mighty even after they blame their hardware issues to their customers.
> YOU'RE HOLDING IT WRONG!


Friends iPhone 3GS'S power button became loose after 6 months of use: gave her a brand new 3GS
Friends Macbook Air hinge became a little wobbly after a few months: transferred data and gave him a brand new Macbook Air
Friends Macbook Pro had his click pad completely get stuck in because pounds away at it: Switched his click pad and upgraded his harddrive for free

My brother had ONE problem with his GPS device on his Samsung - it didn't work. Samsung said hes SOL and never replaced it NOR released a fix. Said it was up to him and the phone company.

Cool story, bros. Apple > Samsung. This also relates to PC companies. If you haven't ever dealt with Apple customer service then stop giving your opinion out. It is hands down the best you can get.


----------



## Yeroon

Looking at some pictures a friend sent me of another friends car (Some of you will like these) it seems to only affect light sources from the edge. Phone was an iphone 4 or 4s, I don't know which.
Purple flare up on top, in a garage, with decent lighting at best:


Again on top, again in garage with sub par lighting:


And reflected sunlight in the center of the picture, with no flare to be seen:


If its the same issue I don't get what the big deal is. If you are looking for a great camera, buy one instead. If you're looking for a great cameraphone, the nokia seems like a good choice, and the iphone5 does seem a decent second there. I'd be more concerned about Apples bad prep for the trim paint then the camera IMO


----------



## X-Nine

Apple customer service really is excellent. I don't understand how people can say it isn't.

When I worked for them, I always replaced stuff for customers, free of charge. I had a Red Cross guy come in the day before he was supposed to fly out to Hurricane Katrina. His iPod wasn't working, and we didn't have his model in stock. I talked to my manager, and we handed him a brand new one, still in the box, and it was an updated model with more space. For FREE. You don't think that meant a lot to a guy who was going to be in a disaster area for 6 months? To have some peace of mind that the one thing he was taking to keep his mind off of things was now working?

Or how a customer bought an mac mini, wasn't satisfied after two weeks, and we returned it without a restocking fee so he could buy an iMac that he loved? How about free classes for people who want to learn how to make home videos, use Powerpoint, or any other number of subjects?

Apple's customer service is by far the best (not to mention you don't have to try and decipher someone in India when you call their tech support.)

While I'm pretty disenchanted with the company as a whole since their Samsung lawsuit, I will give credit where it's due.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j3st3r*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> with apple? yes.
> i don't know why you still insist that apple customer service is high and mighty even after they blame their hardware issues to their customers.
> YOU'RE HOLDING IT WRONG!
> 
> 
> 
> Friends iPhone 3GS'S power button became loose after 6 months of use: gave her a brand new 3GS
> Friends Macbook Air hinge became a little wobbly after a few months: transferred data and gave him a brand new Macbook Air
> Friends Macbook Pro had his click pad completely get stuck in because pounds away at it: Switched his click pad and upgraded his harddrive for free
> 
> My brother had ONE problem with his GPS device on his Samsung - it didn't work. Samsung said hes SOL and never replaced it NOR released a fix. Said it was up to him and the phone company.
> 
> Cool story, bros. Apple > Samsung. This also relates to PC companies. If you haven't ever dealt with Apple customer service then stop giving your opinion out. It is hands down the best you can get.
Click to expand...

No.

Apple's CS is excellent, but most people have never had a single issue with Samsung's. Well, at least the people I know.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yeroon*
> 
> Looking at some pictures a friend sent me of another friends car (Some of you will like these) it seems to only affect light sources from the edge. Phone was an iphone 4 or 4s, I don't know which.
> Purple flare up on top, in a garage, with decent lighting at best:
> 
> Again on top, again in garage with sub par lighting:
> 
> And reflected sunlight in the center of the picture, with no flare to be seen:
> 
> If its the same issue I don't get what the big deal is. If you are looking for a great camera, buy one instead. If you're looking for a great cameraphone, the nokia seems like a good choice, and the iphone5 does seem a decent second there. I'd be more concerned about Apples bad prep for the trim paint then the camera IMO












Pretty sure you were trying to make a point, I was just slightly distracted and missed it.


----------



## Nocturin

PORPLE


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Does anything actually work on this thing? Wifi problems, (supposed) 4G problems, maps problems, screen problems, light-leak problems.... now camera problems? Was this thing actually tested?


Yeah. The Apple logos on it all work great!


----------



## PsYcHo29388

Keep it up apple, hopefully people will start to realise how rediculous you guys are.

-Sent from my Galaxy Player 4.0-


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Yeah, Steve Jobs accuses people of holding the iPhone 4 wrong, then Customer services sell people $29.99 bumpers to stop the issue, that supposedly wasn't an issue. Yeah, GREAT customer service.
> 
> Hardware experts called it an hardware issue, Apple called it a software issue (ask DuckieHo for his opinion on it. And DuckieHo > most people) and then magically released a revision without the issue.


The signal attenuation was a hardware issue, however the way iOS showed signal strength made it look like you were losing a lot more signal than you actually were. Apple released a patch that made the signal bars more representative of your actual signal strength, but of course a case was needed to fix the signal attenuation issue.

The way Apple handled the issue was very disappointing. They should've just come out immediately and said that they screwed up on the antenna design, and offered free cases immediately, rather than dragging it out for 3 weeks in advance.


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> The signal attenuation was a hardware issue, however *the way iOS showed signal strength made it look like you were losing a lot more signal than you actually were.* Apple released a patch that made the signal bars more representative of your actual signal strength, but of course a case was needed to fix the signal attenuation issue.
> The way Apple handled the issue was very disappointing. They should've just come out immediately and said that they screwed up on the antenna design, and offered free cases immediately, rather than dragging it out for 3 weeks in advance.


Actually it was so bad peoples calls were getting dropped because of it.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Yeah, Steve Jobs accuses people of holding the iPhone 4 wrong, then Customer services sell people $29.99 bumpers to stop the issue, that supposedly wasn't an issue. Yeah, GREAT customer service.
> 
> Hardware experts called it an hardware issue, Apple called it a software issue (ask DuckieHo for his opinion on it. And DuckieHo > most people) and then magically released a revision without the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> The signal attenuation was a hardware issue, however the way iOS showed signal strength made it look like you were losing a lot more signal than you actually were. Apple released a patch that made the signal bars more representative of your actual signal strength, but of course a case was needed to fix the signal attenuation issue.
> 
> The way Apple handled the issue was very disappointing. They should've just come out immediately and said that they screwed up on the antenna design, and offered free cases immediately, rather than dragging it out for 3 weeks in advance.
Click to expand...

They had to be taken to small claims before they gave out the free bumpers afaik

Also new avatar, didn't recognize you


----------



## Tennobanzai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> They had to be taken to small claims before they gave out the free bumpers afaik
> Also new avatar, didn't recognize you


That's 100% incorrect


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> The signal attenuation was a hardware issue, however *the way iOS showed signal strength made it look like you were losing a lot more signal than you actually were.* Apple released a patch that made the signal bars more representative of your actual signal strength, but of course a case was needed to fix the signal attenuation issue.
> The way Apple handled the issue was very disappointing. They should've just come out immediately and said that they screwed up on the antenna design, and offered free cases immediately, rather than dragging it out for 3 weeks in advance.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it was so bad peoples calls were getting dropped because of it.
Click to expand...

Yes. It attenuated a few dBs of signal, so if you only had a few dBs it could cause you to drop a call. However, if you had, say a full 5 bars of signal it would appear to drop you down to sometimes 1 bar, which made it look like you had lost 80% of a full signal, rather than what was probably closer to 30-40%. This was fixed by the software patch so that you appeared to lose as much signal bars as you were losing actual signal. This also just made the signal bars more accurate of a representation of the signal in the first place. Honestly I'm not sure why Apple ever did it that way in the first place.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Yeah, Steve Jobs accuses people of holding the iPhone 4 wrong, then Customer services sell people $29.99 bumpers to stop the issue, that supposedly wasn't an issue. Yeah, GREAT customer service.
> 
> Hardware experts called it an hardware issue, Apple called it a software issue (ask DuckieHo for his opinion on it. And DuckieHo > most people) and then magically released a revision without the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> The signal attenuation was a hardware issue, however the way iOS showed signal strength made it look like you were losing a lot more signal than you actually were. Apple released a patch that made the signal bars more representative of your actual signal strength, but of course a case was needed to fix the signal attenuation issue.
> 
> The way Apple handled the issue was very disappointing. They should've just come out immediately and said that they screwed up on the antenna design, and offered free cases immediately, rather than dragging it out for 3 weeks in advance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They had to be taken to small claims before they gave out the free bumpers afaik
> 
> Also new avatar, didn't recognize you
Click to expand...

I believe they were taken to court after they had given out the bumpers. It wasn't until early this year that the case was settled. Unless maybe we're talking about different cases.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> The signal attenuation was a hardware issue, however *the way iOS showed signal strength made it look like you were losing a lot more signal than you actually were.* Apple released a patch that made the signal bars more representative of your actual signal strength, but of course a case was needed to fix the signal attenuation issue.
> The way Apple handled the issue was very disappointing. They should've just come out immediately and said that they screwed up on the antenna design, and offered free cases immediately, rather than dragging it out for 3 weeks in advance.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it was so bad peoples calls were getting dropped because of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. It attenuated a few dBs of signal, so if you only had a few dBs it could cause you to drop a call. However, if you had, say a full 5 bars of signal it would appear to drop you down to sometimes 1 bar, which made it look like you had lost 80% of a full signal, rather than what was probably closer to 30-40%. This was fixed by the software patch so that you appeared to lose as much signal bars as you were losing actual signal. This also just made the signal bars more accurate of a representation of the signal in the first place. Honestly I'm not sure why Apple ever did it that way in the first place.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Yeah, Steve Jobs accuses people of holding the iPhone 4 wrong, then Customer services sell people $29.99 bumpers to stop the issue, that supposedly wasn't an issue. Yeah, GREAT customer service.
> 
> Hardware experts called it an hardware issue, Apple called it a software issue (ask DuckieHo for his opinion on it. And DuckieHo > most people) and then magically released a revision without the issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The signal attenuation was a hardware issue, however the way iOS showed signal strength made it look like you were losing a lot more signal than you actually were. Apple released a patch that made the signal bars more representative of your actual signal strength, but of course a case was needed to fix the signal attenuation issue.
> 
> The way Apple handled the issue was very disappointing. They should've just come out immediately and said that they screwed up on the antenna design, and offered free cases immediately, rather than dragging it out for 3 weeks in advance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They had to be taken to small claims before they gave out the free bumpers afaik
> 
> Also new avatar, didn't recognize you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe they were taken to court after they had given out the bumpers. It wasn't until early this year that the case was settled. Unless maybe we're talking about different cases.
Click to expand...

If that's true, then why is my affected iPhone 4 dropping from 5 to one...?


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> The signal attenuation was a hardware issue, however *the way iOS showed signal strength made it look like you were losing a lot more signal than you actually were.* Apple released a patch that made the signal bars more representative of your actual signal strength, but of course a case was needed to fix the signal attenuation issue.
> The way Apple handled the issue was very disappointing. They should've just come out immediately and said that they screwed up on the antenna design, and offered free cases immediately, rather than dragging it out for 3 weeks in advance.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it was so bad peoples calls were getting dropped because of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. It attenuated a few dBs of signal, so if you only had a few dBs it could cause you to drop a call. However, if you had, say a full 5 bars of signal it would appear to drop you down to sometimes 1 bar, which made it look like you had lost 80% of a full signal, rather than what was probably closer to 30-40%. This was fixed by the software patch so that you appeared to lose as much signal bars as you were losing actual signal. This also just made the signal bars more accurate of a representation of the signal in the first place. Honestly I'm not sure why Apple ever did it that way in the first place.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Yeah, Steve Jobs accuses people of holding the iPhone 4 wrong, then Customer services sell people $29.99 bumpers to stop the issue, that supposedly wasn't an issue. Yeah, GREAT customer service.
> 
> Hardware experts called it an hardware issue, Apple called it a software issue (ask DuckieHo for his opinion on it. And DuckieHo > most people) and then magically released a revision without the issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The signal attenuation was a hardware issue, however the way iOS showed signal strength made it look like you were losing a lot more signal than you actually were. Apple released a patch that made the signal bars more representative of your actual signal strength, but of course a case was needed to fix the signal attenuation issue.
> 
> The way Apple handled the issue was very disappointing. They should've just come out immediately and said that they screwed up on the antenna design, and offered free cases immediately, rather than dragging it out for 3 weeks in advance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They had to be taken to small claims before they gave out the free bumpers afaik
> 
> Also new avatar, didn't recognize you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe they were taken to court after they had given out the bumpers. It wasn't until early this year that the case was settled. Unless maybe we're talking about different cases.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If that's true, then why is my affected iPhone 4 dropping from 5 to one...?
Click to expand...

You're holding it wrong.









Honestly though, I'm not sure. Here's more information about it:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3821/iphone-4-redux-analyzing-apples-ios-41-signal-fix


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Yes. It attenuated a few dBs of signal, so if you only had a few dBs it could cause you to drop a call. However, if you had, say a full 5 bars of signal it would appear to drop you down to sometimes 1 bar, which made it look like you had lost 80% of a full signal, rather than what was probably closer to 30-40%. This was fixed by the software patch so that you appeared to lose as much signal bars as you were losing actual signal. This also just made the signal bars more accurate of a representation of the signal in the first place. Honestly I'm not sure why Apple ever did it that way in the first place.


Oh I understand what you meant now


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> If that's true, then why is my affected iPhone 4 dropping from 5 to one...?


There were two issues:

*1.* *The software "bug"* which appeared to show a drop from five to one bars just from holding the iPhone 4. This was because of the formula Apple was using to display the bars, which favoured showing five bars for a lot of the time. When cupped tightly, the signal strength would decrease by about 25 dBm from attenuation, comparatively the 3GS would drop about 15 dBm. The 4 made up for this somewhat by being able to hold onto a signal lower than -113 dBm down as far as -121 dBm.

*2.* *The bridging of the antennas* was the other which would result in a complete loss of signal. The first issue created a huge amount of hype because it effected so many and was so noticeable, and the second sort of rode on that hype-wave, seeing that the two issues are hard for your average joe to separate.

Perhaps you're experiencing the second issue? If you're still under warranty then perhaps consider returning it.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> They also had the 'free bumper case' program for a while where you could pick the apple case or any number of competitor's cases and receive them free of charge. That was pretty upstanding, and definitely should have continued throughout the iphone 4's life span.


After major backlash regarding the charging for the cases, they gave them away for free.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XNine*
> 
> Apple customer service really is excellent. I don't understand how people can say it isn't.
> When I worked for them, I always replaced stuff for customers, free of charge. I had a Red Cross guy come in the day before he was supposed to fly out to Hurricane Katrina. His iPod wasn't working, and we didn't have his model in stock. I talked to my manager, and we handed him a brand new one, still in the box, and it was an updated model with more space. For FREE. You don't think that meant a lot to a guy who was going to be in a disaster area for 6 months? To have some peace of mind that the one thing he was taking to keep his mind off of things was now working?
> Or how a customer bought an mac mini, wasn't satisfied after two weeks, and we returned it without a restocking fee so he could buy an iMac that he loved? How about free classes for people who want to learn how to make home videos, use Powerpoint, or any other number of subjects?
> Apple's customer service is by far the best (not to mention you don't have to try and decipher someone in India when you call their tech support.)
> While I'm pretty disenchanted with the company as a whole since their Samsung lawsuit, I will give credit where it's due.


Yeah, why not waive the restocking fee, when the guy will be spending more money on Apple stuff anyway? That's not being awesome CS, that's just knowing a good thing when you see it. I'll bet any company will do that for you. "Hi, I've only had this for a couple of weeks, but it's not for me. CAn I return it and buy a more expensive product from you?" Any company that charged a restocking fee would most likely lose or alienate the customer. I've had the exact same thing happen to me from Aria (computer ocmpany) in the UK.

The Red Cross guy example is a good, but that's not going to happen to everyone and there's nothing about that that specifically labels Apple's CS as being excellent because of it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> The signal attenuation was a hardware issue, however the way iOS showed signal strength made it look like you were losing a lot more signal than you actually were. Apple released a patch that made the signal bars more representative of your actual signal strength, but of course a case was needed to fix the signal attenuation issue.
> The way Apple handled the issue was very disappointing. They should've just come out immediately and said that they screwed up on the antenna design, and offered free cases immediately, rather than dragging it out for 3 weeks in advance.


Indeed, but if you were in a low signal area you'd lose signal entirely. They patched up the software display foor the signal, but at the same time, no other phone on the market would lose signal like that without intentionally trying to attenuate the signal. At the time, I had a HTC Desire that I had to cup with both hands in order to kill it. Not something that would happen from simply holding the phone to make a call.

It was a hardware issue, that Apple tried to fob off as a software issue, silently fixed the problem in later revisions of the same phone, all the while Steve Jobs publicly blamed people "holding it wrong" and sold $/£30 silicon cases to people. Then, when no-one was buying the software excuse they gave them away for free (which they should've done in the first place, but my call was for a total recall of all of them and a fix, imho, since not everyone wants a case on their phone)


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> If that's true, then why is my affected iPhone 4 dropping from 5 to one...?


There were two issues:

*1.* *The software "bug"* which appeared to show a drop from five to one bars just from holding the iPhone 4. This was because of the formula Apple was using to display the bars, which favoured showing five bars for a lot of the time. When cupped tightly, the signal strength would decrease by about 25 dBm from attenuation, comparatively the 3GS would drop about 15 dBm. The 4 made up for this somewhat by being able to hold onto a signal lower than -113 dBm down as far as -121 dBm.

*2.* *The bridging of the antennas* was the other which would result in a complete loss of signal. The first issue created a huge amount of hype because it effected so many and was so noticeable, and the second sort of rode on that hype-wave, seeing that the two issues are hard for your average joe to separate.

Perhaps you're experiencing the second issue? If you're still under warranty then perhaps consider returning it.[/quote]
Could you explain no2 further? Selling BNIB phone sounds like a plan.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> The signal attenuation was a hardware issue, however the way iOS showed signal strength made it look like you were losing a lot more signal than you actually were. Apple released a patch that made the signal bars more representative of your actual signal strength, but of course a case was needed to fix the signal attenuation issue.
> The way Apple handled the issue was very disappointing. They should've just come out immediately and said that they screwed up on the antenna design, and offered free cases immediately, rather than dragging it out for 3 weeks in advance.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, but if you were in a low signal area you'd lose signal entirely. They patched up the software display foor the signal, but at the same time, no other phone on the market would lose signal like that without intentionally trying to attenuate the signal. At the time, I had a HTC Desire that I had to cup with both hands in order to kill it. Not something that would happen from simply holding the phone to make a call.
> 
> It was a hardware issue, that Apple tried to fob off as a software issue, silently fixed the problem in later revisions of the same phone, all the while Steve Jobs publicly blamed people "holding it wrong" and sold $/£30 silicon cases to people. Then, when no-one was buying the software excuse they gave them away for free (which they should've done in the first place, but my call was for a total recall of all of them and a fix, imho, since not everyone wants a case on their phone)
Click to expand...

Yea, I explained all of this further in subsequent posts.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Could you explain no2 further? Selling BNIB phone sounds like a plan.


I don't remember too much about it. If you're in for some reading though, check out these articles (on the "antenna" page) from Anandtech: iPhone 4 review, iPhone 4 CDMA review, and iPhone 4S review. That should explain it pretty thoroughly.

What do you mean "Selling BNIB phone sounds like a plan"?


----------



## 3930K

Just tested debug mode, manuall triggering.

-85 to -116.

And held with my left.

-93 to -116.

So it gets to -116 before it either loses strength completely or goes back to normal.
I'll get back to you with a 5-bar test as soon as I can.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Just tested debug mode, manuall triggering.
> 
> -85 to -116.
> 
> And held with my left.
> 
> -93 to -116.
> 
> So it gets to -116 before it either loses strength completely or goes back to normal.
> I'll get back to you with a 5-bar test as soon as I can.


K. I should try that sometime.

I'm off for the night ^^


----------



## grizzlyblunting

To settle this, apple has never been about bang for ur buck. Ever.

How about that thur iphone 5 and its purple camera? Sure seems fancy to me...


----------



## Rubers

^ Yeah, they're apparently a fashion statement


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *XNine*
> 
> No money envy here. I've owned Macs and love OS X, however, I love modding and building. *I could build a computer for half the price,* watercooled, that would run circles around a Mac. So, no, not everyone has money envy. Hell, I could build in the new Murderbox MKII and still have money left compared to buying a mac.
> 
> 
> 
> Same, which is why I still have a PowerBook instead of MacBook.
> 
> Isn't the Muderbox MKII like $3K on it's own?
Click to expand...

1.2K, $50 for 2 120mms. With no frames.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> I'm just not and never have been in the market for a laptop. I don't see the point in them being honest. Unless I travelled a lot and stayed in hotels away from home, then I'd see it. But I'm a PC dude.
> But I disagree, 1366x768 doesn't necessarily look bad on 15" and $200 is not the savings there. It's £2-300 which is around $500, it's a big saving for the fact of the matter of having a slightly heavier laptop.
> Also, I think those two laptops I posted look fine. I don't like the unibody design, personally.


Just like you I like desktops by far more, and my laptop is really just something for light use. I do carry it with me practically everywhere though, as I work in between IT and software development, and having a laptop enables me to work practically anywhere I like. Plus, I often take very long plane trips - between 14 and 18 hours, and whatever laptop I have needs to be able to open up and be usable in a cramped coach seat. And there's no way you can use a 15" laptop in coach.

So you couldn't _pay_ me enough to switch to that 15" laptop you used as an example. The resolution is too low to work on comfortably and it's too big and heavy to carry around comfortably. And 16:9 screens just don't help for work. $500, even $1000 extra, is nothing in comparison to actually owning something that fits my use.

Not that this has anything to do with PC vs Mac. I'm just trying to explain why those two laptops aren't comparable.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> I'm not going overboard. You said you can find a laptop that competes with the Apple laptops for less. Then you go as post two different types of laptops aimed at different markets. All I did was the same as you except in favour of Apple. I'm not denying you found a cheaper laptop because you did, but it didn't compete with the Apple one you chose because they were in *different markets*.
> And you did, but it was ultrabook (I meant ultrabook, not netbook) vs a full sized notebook. Hardly fair comparisons. If you do want to compare the MacBook Air to a non-Apple laptop then make sure you use another ultrabook. Otherwise it's a bias comparison, just like my comparison of the Samsung N102S and Retina MacBook Pro.
> They are...
> They used to be about media production but now the media production software on Mac and Windows are basically the same.


No, I compared 2 laptops. I don't give a rats about the anal limits you want to put on it: both machines had similar specs, but one was cheaper. The two you compared did not have similar specs at all.

And if you read my edit. Take the 15" £1.5k Macbook Pro. Same HDD, CPU, screen size and RAM as the Asus. The difference? A larger battery, the Geforce 650M, a larger resolution and around *£800*. You, again, could still find a laptop with comparable specs and have some money left over from that £800 difference.

The Apple stuff is overpriced and not worth the extra money in my eyes and I can't understand why people feel the need to buy them.

And I'm sorry but computers as a fashion statement is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. They did used to be about the media production and thank god they're not anymore.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anAppleADay*
> 
> Congrats...you make fun of and call Apple users stupid for choosing to buy a "fashion statement". However, for it to be a fashion statement, it would need to be outdoors in the presence of other people. With your 3,440 posts since January, I don't think you've gotten much time outdoors.
> It's ridiculous the double-standard in regards to threads (thread locks) when putting down Apple products vs Samsung/Nokia/etc. I had this discussion with a mod and he claimed it's all moderated the same, but then I see these yahoo's going crazy slandering Apple products while at the same time groveling at the feet of Samsung/Nokia.
> Why not just make Apple topics illegal? I'm fairly certain, at this point, overclock.net can be liable for slander considering all these 14-year olds and the crap they say.












I'm a 25 year old programming student.

And while I'm on the subject, thank the heavens they teach us programming using Windows and Linux







There's a Mac-Lab at the School of Computing and Engineering and it's one of 20 labs. 3 are Linux, one Mac, the rest are Windows. It's the most neglected Lab in the building (and actually, not being racist, but seems to be used by Asians 90% of the time lol. Just an observation).


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> No, I compared 2 laptops. I don't give a rats about the anal limits you want to put on it: both machines had similar specs, but one was cheaper. The two you compared did not have similar specs at all.
> And if you read my edit. Take the 15" £1.5k Macbook Pro. Same HDD, CPU, screen size and RAM as the Asus. The difference? A larger battery, the Geforce 650M, a larger resolution and around *£800*. You, again, could still find a laptop with comparable specs and have some money left over from that £800 difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a 25 year old programming student.
> And while I'm on the subject, thank the heavens they teach us programming using Windows and Linux


*You compared two different types of laptops aimed at two different markets, they are not "comparable" They both have different reasons existing*

It's like comparing a Range Rover to a Ferrari and saying the Range Rover won because it's cheaper and they both have similar engines.
Like the MBA vs that Asus, they both have different purposes.

I can't make it clearer than that.

And I'm not sure why you want to "thank the heavens" for not teaching you OSX. That is a terrible choice, at the moment OSX is rocketing in the market share. Not learning how to program for OSX is a huge mistake.


----------



## Clairvoyant129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Yeah, given your previous posts I highly, highly doubt you've ever compared a SGS3 yourself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You post pro-apple stuff all the time and made a massive fit in the iPhone 5 threads
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> LOL, those start at £1,250. IF I was going to throw that much money on a laptop, I'd at least want to play games with that GPU. Kind of heavily limited on a Mac. There's a comparable 17" Alienware for less


Apples to oranges comparison. 10lb 17" plastic Alienware with a horrendous TN display vs. 4.45lb 15" 2880x1880 IPS ultrabook? Really? When you grow up and start making money you will realize how ridiculous it is to lug around an Alienware to a professional work environment.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manyak*
> 
> Just like you I like desktops by far more, and my laptop is really just something for light use. I do carry it with me practically everywhere though, as I work in between IT and software development, and having a laptop enables me to work practically anywhere I like. Plus, I often take very long plane trips - between 14 and 18 hours, and whatever laptop I have needs to be able to open up and be usable in a cramped coach seat. And there's no way you can use a 15" laptop in coach.
> So you couldn't _pay_ me enough to switch to that 15" laptop you used as an example. The resolution is too low to work on comfortably and it's too big and heavy to carry around comfortably. And 16:9 screens just don't help for work. $500, even $1000 extra, is nothing in comparison to actually owning something that fits my use.
> Not that this has anything to do with PC vs Mac. I'm just trying to explain why those two laptops aren't comparable.


also 16:9 screens take up too much space. I could never fit a 16:9 15" laptop on on of the small "half-desks" the call desks in college. But my rmbp, because of it's thin bezel and 16:10 aspect ratio, fits on these desks (it's close but it fits).

lol at comparing this to an alienware laptop. an alienware doesn't a similar footprint to a 16:9 13" or 14" with larger bezel and it weighs 1O pounds. it is meant to be moved around the house, not a portable workhorse.


----------



## X-Nine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *XNine*
> 
> No money envy here. I've owned Macs and love OS X, however, I love modding and building. *I could build a computer for half the price,* watercooled, that would run circles around a Mac. So, no, not everyone has money envy. Hell, I could build in the new Murderbox MKII and still have money left compared to buying a mac.
> 
> 
> 
> Same, which is why I still have a PowerBook instead of MacBook.
> 
> Isn't the Muderbox MKII like $3K on it's own?
Click to expand...

The MKII is priced at 1200. More than reasonable as no other case in the world is as well designed and hand made.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *XNine*
> 
> No money envy here. I've owned Macs and love OS X, however, I love modding and building. *I could build a computer for half the price,* watercooled, that would run circles around a Mac. So, no, not everyone has money envy. Hell, I could build in the new Murderbox MKII and still have money left compared to buying a mac.
> 
> 
> 
> Same, which is why I still have a PowerBook instead of MacBook.
> 
> Isn't the Muderbox MKII like $3K on it's own?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1.2K, $50 for 2 120mms. With no frames.
Click to expand...

The fans are an optional upgrade and yes, it comes with a slide in frame. That replaces the personalized serial number top plate.

At any rate, I think people are getting too wound up and arguing about nothing, really. Apple provides products and support, and the ease of use is well wortht the money to a lot of people. I assure you, my parents didn't buy a Mac to fit in or be cool. They bought it for the ease of use and the hassle-free environment it provides them. Being in their late 60's, they could care less about their cool factor.

I don't see why people get so worked up over other people's preference. If you like something, buy it. If not, don't. It's not a hard concept.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> *You compared two different types of laptops aimed at two different markets, they are not "comparable" They both have different reasons existing*
> It's like comparing a Range Rover to a Ferrari and saying the Range Rover won because it's cheaper and they both have similar engines.
> Like the MBA vs that Asus, they both have different purposes.
> I can't make it clearer than that.
> And I'm not sure why you want to "thank the heavens" for not teaching you OSX. That is a terrible choice, at the moment OSX is rocketing in the market share. Not learning how to program for OSX is a huge mistake.


No it really wasn't like comparing a range rover to a ferrari. Yes, if the range rover had a faster engine and performed better than the ferrari. But no.

They were comparable because they were around the same price band and had very similar specs. You can whinge about markets all you like but someone lookingat these two laptops may well see the Asus had very similar specs and decide to save the money. They're not going to go "oh, whoa, hold on for a moment, These two laptops are in different markets. Better look at something else" and then go on to look at only ultra books and such. But, then again, someone in the market for a mac isn't going to walk away with a PC anyway.

Again, the market you assign to these two products means diddly squat. They both had similar specs and were reasonably in the same price band and that makes them comparable. If there was a GPU that was cheaper and better spec'd and performing than another GPU... you wouldn't be seen saying that lame argument and you'd be shot down in flames and quite rightly so.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> No it really wasn't like comparing a range rover to a ferrari. Yes, if the range rover had a faster engine and performed better than the ferrari. But no.
> They were comparable because they were around the same price band and had very similar specs. You can whinge about markets all you like but someone lookingat these two laptops may well see the Asus had very similar specs and decide to save the money. They're not going to go "oh, whoa, hold on for a moment, These two laptops are in different markets. Better look at something else" and then go on to look at only ultra books and such. But, then again, someone in the market for a mac isn't going to walk away with a PC anyway.
> Again, the market you assign to these two products means diddly squat. They both had similar specs and were reasonably in the same price band and that makes them comparable. If there was a GPU that was cheaper and better spec'd and performing than another GPU... you wouldn't be seen saying that lame argument and you'd be shot down in flames and quite rightly so.


too bad you ignored specs like weight, form factor, and battery life. laptops are not desktops, obviously.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> Apples to oranges comparison. 10lb 17" plastic Alienware with a horrendous TN display vs. 4.45lb 15" 2880x1880 IPS ultrabook? Really? When you grow up and start making money you will realize how ridiculous it is to lug around an Alienware to a professional work environment.


Really, because someone on my course has no problems bringing one in to work on every day? I guess he wanted his money's worth. And this is the kind of fit you had in the iPhone 5 threads







Keep going.

OH and not that age ever really has anything to do with it, but I can assure you I'm all grown up


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> too bad you ignored specs like weight, form factor, and battery life. laptops are not desktops, obviously.


I ignored weight and form factor. The battery life was the same, and upgradable to better.

And another argument is the MBA would be ideal for it's light weight and ability to do simple work and browse the web? o rly? Well in that case why not get a light 13" laptop with an i3 for around £350? It'll browse the web and perform day to day tasks with ease.

http://www.ebuyer.com/393928-acer-travelmate-b1-laptop-nx-v7qek-001

More than half the price, will do the same job.


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> No it really wasn't like comparing a range rover to a ferrari. Yes, if the range rover had a faster engine and performed better than the ferrari. But no.
> They were comparable because they were around the same price band and had very similar specs. You can whinge about markets all you like but someone lookingat these two laptops may well see the Asus had very similar specs and decide to save the money. They're not going to go "oh, whoa, hold on for a moment, These two laptops are in different markets. Better look at something else" and then go on to look at only ultra books and such. But, then again, someone in the market for a mac isn't going to walk away with a PC anyway.
> Again, the market you assign to these two products means diddly squat. They both had similar specs and were reasonably in the same price band and that makes them comparable. If there was a GPU that was cheaper and better spec'd and performing than another GPU... you wouldn't be seen saying that lame argument and you'd be shot down in flames and quite rightly so.


The Range Rover and Ferrari F430 both have 4.2 litre V8s. The Range Rover is cheaper therefore by your logic the Range Rover is better. Because of course it has nothing to do with the purpose of the two. The only thing that matters is the hardware/engines and price. And I never said Only look at ultrabooks. I said if you're going to compare a non-Apple laptop to a MacBook Air then compare it to another ultrabook. But if you don't want to compare ultrabooks then compare a MacBook Pro to that Asus.

And on the GPU analogy, why did you get a GTX 670 when you could have got an AMD 7850? Both have 2GB RAM, except the 7850 is clocked higher (975MHz instead of the GTX670s 915MHz) and it's half the price? That just doesn't make sense according to your logic.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> I ignored weight and form factor. The battery life was the same, and upgradable to better.
> And another argument is the MBA would be ideal for it's light weight and ability to do simple work and browse the web? o rly? Well in that case why not get a light 13" laptop with an i3 for around £350? It'll browse the web and perform day to day tasks with ease.
> http://www.ebuyer.com/393928-acer-travelmate-b1-laptop-nx-v7qek-001
> *More than half the price, will do the same job.*


Oh, the irony.

By the way, here are the links for the two GPUs I am talking about

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/2gb-point-of-view-gtx670-28nm-pcie-30-6008mhz-gddr5-gpu-915mhz-boost-980mhz-cores-1344-displayport-2

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/2gb-gigabyte-radeon-hd-7850-overclocked-4800mhz-gddr5-28nm-gpu-975mhz-dl-dvi-hdmi-mdp


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> The Range Rover and Ferrari F430 both have 4.2 litre V8s. The Range Rover is cheaper therefore by your logic the Range Rover is better. Because of course it has nothing to do with the purpose of the two. The only thing that matters is the hardware/engines and price. And I never said Only look at ultrabooks. I said if you're going to compare a non-Apple laptop to a MacBook Air then compare it to another ultrabook. But if you don't want to compare ultrabooks then compare a MacBook Pro to that Asus.
> And on the GPU analogy, why did you get a GTX 670 when you could have got an AMD 7850? Both have 2GB RAM, except the 7850 is clocked higher (975MHz instead of the GTX670s 915MHz) and it's half the price? That just doesn't make sense according to your logic.


Well, my GTX670 is 1015Mhz stock, the 7950 was only £30 cheaper at the time (pre GTX660 release) and I wanted to use Physx *boom, your argument out of the water* Your analogies are full of holes.

And sure, if the Range Rover also had the same pretty much everything similar to the ferrari, then sure it'd be the better choice since it's cheaper. A ferrari isn't automatically a better car.... And considering the price difference of the Asus to the Mac (range to the ferrari) then I suppose that is one HELLA expensive range rover. You need to pick better analogies. The Ferrari to Range Rover isn't working for you since they're not even in the same price band, let alone "market" whereas at least the two laptops I'm talking about are in the same price band AND have the same/similar specs.

Do you not watch much Top Gear? How often do they have a better car that is half the price? Price != Worth


----------



## eternal7trance

How did we go from holding phones wrong to money, cars and graphic cards?


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Well, my GTX670 is 1015Mhz stock, the 7950 was only £30 cheaper at the time (pre GTX660 release) and I wanted to use Physx *boom, your argument out of the water* Your analogies are full of holes.
> And sure, if the Range Rover also had the same pretty much everything similar to the ferrari, then sure it'd be the better choice since it's cheaper. A ferrari isn't automatically a better car.... And considering the price difference of the Asus to the Mac (range to the ferrari) then I suppose that is one HELLA expensive range rover. You need to pick better analogies. The Ferrari to Range Rover isn't working for you since they're not even in the same price band, let alone "market" whereas at least the two laptops I'm talking about are in the same price band AND have the same/similar specs.
> Do you not watch much Top Gear? How often do they have a better car that is half the price? Price != Worth


I used a 7850, not a 7950. Which "at the time" was still half the price. And maybe the people wanting OSX want to use some of it's features (such as being a lot easier to use than Windows is)
And the Range Rover is almost £90,000 for the supercharged one. The Ferrari is £100,000 (sort of on sale like the Asus you chose)

Range Rover has 510hp, Ferrari has 483 hp, they both get similar fuel economy (RR 19MPG, Ferrari 18.6MPG) They both have the same similar size fuel tanks (RR 100 liter, Ferrari 95 liter)

See they both have very similar specs. Except one is more than the other.

Do you go out into the real world much? People want something that's reasonable powerful, looks good (opinionated but most people think the MBP is good looking), easy to use, doesn't way 2 tons and has a good battery life.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> I used a 7850, not a 7950. Which "at the time" was still half the price. And maybe the people wanting OSX want to use some of it's features (such as being a lot easier to use than Windows is)
> And the Range Rover is almost £90,000 for the supercharged one. The Ferrari is £100,000 (sort of on sale like the Asus you chose)
> Range Rover has 510hp, Ferrari has 483 hp, they both get similar fuel economy (RR 19MPG, Ferrari 18.6MPG) They both have the same similar size fuel tanks (RR 100 liter, Ferrari 95 liter)
> See they both have very similar specs. Except one is more than the other.
> Do you go out into the real world much? People want something that's reasonable powerful, looks good (opinionated but most people think the MBP is good looking), easy to use, doesn't way 2 tons and has a good battery life.


No, the Asus on sale is cheaper, I listed the non-sale price @ £650.

I understand that fully, but they also don't want to spend a fortune on something when they can get it cheaper elsewhere. And nice one at the personal jabs, but my skin is a lot thicker than that. I personally wouldn't be seen dead with a Mac and wouldn't recommend one to anyone based on the fact that Windows PC's are cheaper, often better, just as easy to use and have the exact same range of software available.

And I'll be quite honest, but I'm not a car guy at all. When you said range rover, I saw this:



and this:










The fact of the matter is it was quite reasonable to compare those laptops because they were similarly priced and had similar hardware. The mac was lighter and thinner and had speedier RAM (some may consider the SSD a pro, but given how small it was it's quite pathetic). Whereas the specs on the Asus were slightly stronger and it had the same battery life, for less money. I even posted a Toshiba notebook, with the exact same specs, but a way better GPU for £100 less than the Asus.

Oh and check the Apple website, they have that £849 MBA listed as a notebook. Asus has their's listed the same. So, yeah, perfectly reasonable to compare the two.


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> No, the Asus on sale is cheaper, I listed the non-sale price @ £650.
> I understand that fully, but they also don't want to spend a fortune on something when they can get it cheaper elsewhere..


Then what's your problem with other people spending their money (not yours) on something they want?

Just because you don't want something doesn't mean the rest of the world wants it either. The world doesn't revolve around you. Some people want looks over performance.


----------



## Rubers

Nice, go ahead and ignore the part of my post that crushes your entire argument for the last two pages:
Quote:


> Oh and check the Apple website, they have that £849 MBA listed as a notebook. Asus has their's listed the same. So, yeah, perfectly reasonable to compare the two.


And most of the world want to save as much money as possible while having a really good computer. Have you ever worked computer tech support or computer sales? Most people cannot even be beguiled into a Mac. Like I said, anyone looking for a Mac is never going to walk away with a PC/Windows-base computer anyway, but those in the market got a Windows-based computer can spend as much or as little as they need and it's quite easy to find a computer that fits their needs but doesn't break the bank.

And why all indignant? Someone was talking about comparable specs but the mac being better in battery life, size and weight and I brought up the issue of being way cheaper for a comparable laptop.

EDIT:

Anyway, if people want to spend their money foolishly, that's fine, but don't expect me to be complacent when they try to assert it as a good buy.

Oh and this: http://www.ebuyer.com/363775-acer-aspire-s3-ultrabook-nx-m10ek-003

Takes a steaming dump over the MacBook Air, it's just a touch more expensive (but if you add the extras from Mac, not really) but has a better HDD, better CPU, 0.5 hours more battery life, a 720p webcam like the MBA and is around the same size and weight. It lacks the USB 3 ports and has a lower resolution and HD 3000 graphics.


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Nice, go ahead and ignore the part of my post that crushes your entire argument for the last two pages:
> And most of the world want to save as much money as possible while having a really good computer. Have you ever worked computer tech support or computer sales? Most people cannot even be beguiled into a Mac. Like I said, anyone looking for a Mac is never going to walk away with a PC/Windows-base computer anyway, but those in the market got a Windows-based computer can spend as much or as little as they need and it's quite easy to find a computer that fits their needs but doesn't break the bank.
> And why all indignant? Someone was talking about comparable specs but the mac being better in battery life, size and weight and I brought up the issue of being way cheaper for a comparable laptop.


I didn't ignore it, I just didn't have anything to say about it.

And Apple (unlike most computer companies) give you a loan, so you don't have to pay the whole £850-£3000 straight away. So in the long term for some people, a Mac would be cheaper. Not only that but if they want to sell it, it will hold it's value a lot better.

And any sensible person would would look at both and take both into consideration. But you are right, there is no way you will convince a Mac fanboy to get a Windows computer and there is no way you will convince a Windows fanboy to get a Mac. Most of the people I have spoken to about Macs vs PCs ("real world people", not "hurr durr GHz people") prefer the the loan you can get with a Mac which AFAIK the only other company that does something similar is Dell. And why would any "real world person" want something that looks worse if in the long run costs around the same and logging onto facebook takes them 0.00001 second longer?


----------



## dantoddd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> I didn't ignore it, I just didn't have anything to say about it.
> And Apple (unlike most computer companies) give you a loan, so you don't have to pay the whole £850-£3000 straight away. So in the long term for some people, a Mac would be cheaper. Not only that but if they want to sell it, it will hold it's value a lot better.
> And any sensible person would would look at both and take both into consideration. But you are right, there is no way you will convince a Mac fanboy to get a Windows computer and there is no way you will convince a Windows fanboy to get a Mac. Most of the people I have spoken to about Macs vs PCs ("real world people", not "hurr durr GHz people") prefer the the loan you can get with a Mac which AFAIK the only other company that does something similar is Dell. And why would any "real world person" want something that looks worse if in the long run costs around the same and logging onto facebook takes them 0.00001 second longer?


how can a loan make things cheaper? loans carry interest rates.


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dantoddd*
> 
> how can a loan make things cheaper? loans carry interest rates.


If you have to pay for bills and you don't have £850 cash, how do you pay for a £850 computer (Mac or PC)? With a loan you will pay £15-£35/month rather than the whole £850 all at once.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> I didn't ignore it, I just didn't have anything to say about it.
> And Apple (unlike most computer companies) give you a loan, so you don't have to pay the whole £850-£3000 straight away. So in the long term for some people, a Mac would be cheaper. Not only that but if they want to sell it, it will hold it's value a lot better.
> And any sensible person would would look at both and take both into consideration. But you are right, there is no way you will convince a Mac fanboy to get a Windows computer and there is no way you will convince a Windows fanboy to get a Mac. Most of the people I have spoken to about Macs vs PCs ("real world people", not "hurr durr GHz people") prefer the the loan you can get with a Mac which AFAIK the only other company that does something similar is Dell. And why would any "real world person" want something that looks worse if in the long run costs around the same and logging onto facebook takes them 0.00001 second longer?


Didn't you earlier ask me if I'd been into the "real world"

You mean, Finance options, which many outlets offer? Off the top of my head, online, Scan. Retail? Wow, who DOESN'T offer you finance. PC world, Dixons, Curry's Comet?

Yeah, most people I've talked _quite rightly_ don't want anything to do with finance. Apple finance are no different to any others. Late payment and early repayment fees, 19-29% APR and is offered by Barclays bank, not Apple. Financing is a rip off. Apple products hold their value because of the asinine value people attach to them not because they're good for the money. Either way, I don't know what planet you live on to be able to make an early full repayment on a loan and not get stung for early repayment charges. Had very many loans? Here's a tip: stay away from them unless they have "Student" in front of it.

And again, have you ever spoken to people or worked in computer sales? "hurr durr Gigahurtzezez" is exactly how you sell stuff to these people.

And here's the hilarious part of your post:
Quote:


> And why would any "real world person" want something that looks worse if in the long run costs around the same and logging onto facebook takes them 0.00001 second longer?


Right, so why spend £850 on a Mac when a £350 laptop will open Facbeook, play Flash games and open eBay just as quick? Also, "looks worse" is incredibly subjective to this debate. Many people would go "oh yeah" to pretty much anything you shove under their noses. People that know what they are talking about and know what they want do not walk into a computer show room and talk to a sales person.

Then again, no offense, but there's way more money in Cambridge than there is in Bradford, so our idea of "Real world people" probably varies wildly. I worked in Newmarket for about 3 months. omgwow that was a different class of people to Bradford and West Yorkshire.


----------



## Riou

Please stay on topic about the iPhone 5, cameras, lenses, smart phones, etc. Talking about laptops or other stuff like that is kind of off topic.


----------



## Rubers

^ Might as well delete the rest of the posts about laptops and stuff, Riou







No point in leaving half of them.


----------



## AznDud333

kinda pisses me off that these guys are talking about "Great customer services"..shows how much their standards have lowered...when you buy a phone you should expect it to work out of box, instead of having to take it back and get a new one..let alone being told "you're holding it wrong"


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AznDud333*
> 
> kinda pisses me off that these guys are talking about "Great customer services"..shows how much their standards have lowered...when you buy a phone you should expect it to work out of box, instead of having to take it back and get a new one..let alone being told "you're holding it wrong"


Well the people that let you do that are really good.

Except at actually getting the specs.

I KNOW for a fact that only the A1429 iPhone 5 will work with EE LTE. I live-chatted them and they said any would work.


----------



## KOBALT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> people take phone cameras too seriously. all of them suck, they just suck in different ways


I disagree. HTC's are known for very good cameras that rival some top quality digital cameras. Do a bit of Googling and you'll see some impressive shots.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KOBALT*
> 
> I disagree. HTC's are known for very good cameras that rival some top quality digital cameras. Do a bit of Googling and you'll see some impressive shots.


I guess that depends on what you consider a top quality digital camera.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ljason8eg*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KOBALT*
> 
> I disagree. HTC's are known for very good cameras that rival some top quality digital cameras. Do a bit of Googling and you'll see some impressive shots.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that depends on what you consider a top quality digital camera.
Click to expand...

True.

Also:

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/10/apples-official-iphone-5-camera-fix-take-a-different-picture-iphone-5/

It gets better and better,


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ljason8eg*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KOBALT*
> 
> I disagree. HTC's are known for very good cameras that rival some top quality digital cameras. Do a bit of Googling and you'll see some impressive shots.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that depends on what you consider a top quality digital camera.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True.
> 
> Also:
> 
> http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/10/apples-official-iphone-5-camera-fix-take-a-different-picture-iphone-5/
> 
> It gets better and better,
Click to expand...

I'm curious what you expect them to say? They're not going to redesign the lens and start replacing everyone's cameras to handle this issue, and that's about the only thing that would fix this. So short of not getting the sun near your picture edge, then there isn't much users can do.

What percentage of iPhone owners actual care about this I wonder? I have yet to hear any complaints about it from owners. Sure some people will care, but if it's a small percentage then it's likely not worth Apple's time. Threads like this are the perfect example of the majority of people complaining about this: A bunch of people who wouldn't own an iPhone anyway. The iPhone 4 has issues with green circles in images, how many people cared? A negligible amount.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ljason8eg*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KOBALT*
> 
> I disagree. HTC's are known for very good cameras that rival some top quality digital cameras. Do a bit of Googling and you'll see some impressive shots.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that depends on what you consider a top quality digital camera.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True.
> 
> Also:
> 
> http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/10/apples-official-iphone-5-camera-fix-take-a-different-picture-iphone-5/
> 
> It gets better and better,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm curious what you expect them to say? They're not going to redesign the lens and start replacing everyone's cameras to handle this issue, and that's about the only thing that would fix this. So short of not getting the sun near your picture edge, then there isn't much users can do.
> 
> What percentage of iPhone owners actual care about this I wonder? I have yet to hear any complaints about it from owners. Sure some people will care, but if it's a small percentage then it's likely not worth Apple's time. Threads like this are the perfect example of the majority of people complaining about this: A bunch of people who wouldn't own an iPhone anyway. The iPhone 4 has issues with green circles in images, how many people cared? A negligible amount.
Click to expand...

MY iPhone 4 would disagree with the last part...


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ljason8eg*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KOBALT*
> 
> I disagree. HTC's are known for very good cameras that rival some top quality digital cameras. Do a bit of Googling and you'll see some impressive shots.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that depends on what you consider a top quality digital camera.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True.
> 
> Also:
> 
> http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/10/apples-official-iphone-5-camera-fix-take-a-different-picture-iphone-5/
> 
> It gets better and better,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm curious what you expect them to say? They're not going to redesign the lens and start replacing everyone's cameras to handle this issue, and that's about the only thing that would fix this. So short of not getting the sun near your picture edge, then there isn't much users can do.
> 
> What percentage of iPhone owners actual care about this I wonder? I have yet to hear any complaints about it from owners. Sure some people will care, but if it's a small percentage then it's likely not worth Apple's time. Threads like this are the perfect example of the majority of people complaining about this: A bunch of people who wouldn't own an iPhone anyway. The iPhone 4 has issues with green circles in images, how many people cared? A negligible amount.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> MY iPhone 4 would disagree with the last part...
Click to expand...

It's only in certain conditions, like this purple flare issue, try Googling it to find out how to do it.


----------



## 3930K

Shot 4 times at a white wall, nada.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Shot 4 times at a white wall, nada.


Don't know what to tell you. Might depend on lighting and flash. There were several iPhone 4 models as well, maybe it was fixed in later models.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AznDud333*
> 
> kinda pisses me off that these guys are talking about "Great customer services"..shows how much their standards have lowered...when you buy a phone you should expect it to work out of box, instead of having to take it back and get a new one..let alone being told "you're holding it wrong"


No one's standards have been lowered, there will always be some defective units.


----------



## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> *No one's standards have been lowered*, there will always be some defective units.


yup, it's been the same "crappy, blame it to someone else" standard, nothing has changed


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> yup, it's been the same "crappy, blame it to someone else" standard, nothing has changed


Or the olde "say there is no problem, then fix the problem"


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> yup, it's been the same "crappy, blame it to someone else" standard, nothing has changed


What? I was talking about consumers, not Apple.


----------



## lordikon

As promised, following up with pictures from my iPhone 5, and iPhone 4S. Let's take a look at the purple haze issue in the following pictures. Also, sorry for not rotating these.

*iPhone 4S*


*iPhone 4S*


*iPhone 5*


*iPhone 5*


I'm sure this whole issue wasn't blown out of proportion or anything.


----------



## Tom1121

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> As promised, following up with pictures from my iPhone 5, and iPhone 4S. Let's take a look at the purple haze issue in the following pictures. Also, sorry for not rotating these.
> *iPhone 4S*
> 
> *iPhone 4S*
> 
> *iPhone 5*
> 
> *iPhone 5*
> 
> I'm sure this whole issue wasn't blown out of proportion or anything.


Oh yes, massively blown out of proportion. Do I think the 5's camera is too easy to induce the flare? Yes. Is it a dealbreaker? Nope. Camera takes very sharp pictures as well as good low light performance.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom1121*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> As promised, following up with pictures from my iPhone 5, and iPhone 4S. Let's take a look at the purple haze issue in the following pictures. Also, sorry for not rotating these.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yes, massively blown out of proportion. Do I think the 5's camera is too easy to induce the flare? Yes. Is it a dealbreaker? Nope. Camera takes very sharp pictures as well as good low light performance.
Click to expand...

Yea it was causing flares more easily, at least in this case, but it's interesting it seems like the sun itself and the sky right around it was a bit sharper looking in the iPhone 5 photos (for example, compare the second picture to the fourth picture).


----------

