# [swe] Geforce GTX 880 and GTX 870 with Maxwell arrives in autumn



## Alatar

Quote:


> Sources of partner manufacturers now claim to SweClockers that Nvidia recently announced that the launch of the GeForce GTX 880 and GTX 870 takes place in the fourth quarter, probably in October or November.
> 
> Despite the new model series, it is still 28 nanometer technology that applies. The semiconductor manufacturer TSMC is indeed start production in 20 nanometers, but it does not seem to apply to the kind of high-performance circuits used for GPUs.
> 
> The circuit is said to be the "second generation" Maxwell and hinted thus contain more news than higher performance.


Source
Videocardz

Sweclockers have been extremely accurate in the past so I'd say there's a good chance of this being correct info.


----------



## kael13

Oh! Just posted in the other thread that I expected something. Speak of the devil. Mini-Maxwell it is then.


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## zealord

yeah the plot slowly thickens. more and more news and rumours popping up here and there (although many probably just quoting each other). It starts to feel like this time of the year again where you can slowly feel that something is coming in a few months.


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## serothis

the GM200 on 28nm process?

edit: sorry, swedish overclockers are saying gm204 for 880 and videocardz mention the gm200 on the 28nm process..

i'm confused.


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## DADDYDC650

The milking continues!


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## Nemessss

so 8gb vram?

also http://wccftech.com/gtx-880-arrive-oct-nov/


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## raisethe3

I might want to get these cards only if they consume less power than previous gen cards.


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## Cakewalk_S

Even with Maxwell on 28nm the performance increase per Watt is going to be quite remarkable. The early 750 and ti cards really show a difference in power consumption. That definitely means lower temperatures and hopefully higher clocks...


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## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serothis*
> 
> the GM200 on 28nm process?


well if I were Nvidia I would do that in 28nm, because that would leave me with the following options:

- A bigger die GM200 is clearly better than GM204 even at 28nm and I can sell it as a better card
- A GM200 is very likely to be better than anything AMD has to offer at that time
- It leaves the option to bring a 20nm GM 210 with about the same die size or even smaller that is better than the GM200
- I can use the 20nm cards for premium products like the Titans~
- 28nm is way cheaper currently and the maxwell architecture is so good, that it will clearly trump the Titan Black/780 Ti without even breaking a sweat.


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## szeged

October/november just like I've been thinking for a while now lol. Classified version late December? Hmmm.


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## Nemessss

20 nm for Q2 2015 for sure


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## SlackerITGuy

Forget Maxwell, give me Pascal.

I will definitely consider going back to the green team once Pascal releases in ~2016.


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## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DADDYDC650*
> 
> The milking continues!


when will we get a break


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## PMan007

Just in time to give away voucher for Ubi games (FC 4 and AC Unity) and/or Rockstar Games GTA V.


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## i7monkey

Not touching another card until DX12 comes out. 20nm GM210 GTX 980 in Q3/Q4 2015 it is.


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## DADDYDC650

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> when will we get a break


Not for a long time is my guess. Get ready for the GTX 880, GTX 880 TI, GTX TI SE, GTX Titan, GTX Titan Black, GTX Titan XYZ, GTX Titan XYZ Milkage Edition.


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## BulletSponge

Since I see Jacob checking this thread I'd like to volunteer my time to test any 880's EVGA may have laying around.


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## Olivon

Quote:


> The circuit is said to be the "second generation" Maxwell and hinted thus contain *more news than higher performance*.


I'm curious to see what it would be


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## Nemessss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BulletSponge*
> 
> Since I see Jacob checking this thread I'd like to volunteer my time to test any 880's EVGA may have laying around.


me too


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## DETERMINOLOGY

With news like this its great to see nv is getting ready to bomb something out. With that said between now and oct-nov be prepared because anything can happen ive seen it happen with the 700s people was saying a later date and out of thin air release dates got bumped up. If the specs is nice with the gtx 880 ill be getting one


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## Mand12

I'm still not convinced it's 28nm.

People took somewhat vague statements from TSMC and have apparently reverse-engineered from them their entire production schedule. I have extreme doubts about that. Especially since "oh, a press release where they said SoC and not HPC, GPUS ARE DOOMED!!!!!" seems to be the conclusion. Yes, TSMC's production capability has limits, but I don't understand why people think they're so single-purpose.


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## GoldenTiger

I still trust the 20nm around early august give or take a couple of weeks rumors much more







. Regardless from all signs the performance should be monstrous.


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## John Shepard

Just in time for the Witcher 3.
Depending on the specs i might upgrade from my 680


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## DETERMINOLOGY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> I still trust the 20nm around early august give or take a couple of weeks rumors much more
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Regardless from all signs the performance should be monstrous.


True nv hasnt said anything honestly and once they let the cat out the bag as more rumors hit around that time we will know. As for now its still way to early but i do hope nv puts on a heck of a show


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## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Sweclockers have been extremely accurate in the past so I'd say there's a good chance of this being correct info.


Yeah, but it was reported by VideoCardz too, so that makes it instantly false.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DADDYDC650*
> 
> The milking continues!


How? Maxwell is new, 28nm is not. That's not Nvidia's nor AMD's fault, it's GloFo's and TSMC's.


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## Dnic41

Seeing how I just picked up a 780 Classified a few months back, it will be some time before I upgrade most likely.


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## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DADDYDC650*
> 
> Not for a long time is my guess. Get ready for the GTX 880, GTX 880 TI, GTX TI SE, GTX Titan, GTX Titan Black, GTX Titan XYZ, GTX Titan XYZ Milkage Edition.


hahaha... I want to see a 3200 core 880, and then a 870 with 2560 cores, for like 400$. stronger than a 780ti by like 20% which is more than enough for me


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## InfoWarrior

It'll be exciting to see all the used 780 Ti's that can't even go for $500 the closer we get to Maxwell launch. Might just grab one of those.


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## DETERMINOLOGY

I would never touch a used gpu and with that ballpark price i would get a new maxwell instead


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## EnigmaMH

Well.. here we go.


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## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DETERMINOLOGY*
> 
> I would never touch a used gpu


I was never really inclined to do so before, but now that mining has become a thing I _certainly_ will never buy a used GPU.


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## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DETERMINOLOGY*
> 
> I would never touch a used gpu and with that ballpark price i would get a new maxwell instead


Why? It's not like a keyboard that you touch thousands of times a day. It's a card handled once or twice ever that sits inside of your computer case and carries a warranty?


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## DETERMINOLOGY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why? It's not like a keyboard that you touch thousands of times a day. It's a card handled once or twice ever that sits inside of your computer case and carries a warranty?


Yea true but im funny about certain parts in my rig even with the warranty if ima dish out that type of money i want my stuff to be fresh/new


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## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DETERMINOLOGY*
> 
> Yea true but im funny about certain parts in my rig even with the warranty if ima dish out that type of money i want my stuff to be fresh/new


Nah I totally understand the idea, I'm like that on some items too.


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InfoWarrior*
> 
> It'll be exciting to see all the used 780 Ti's that can't even go for $500 the closer we get to Maxwell launch. Might just grab one of those.


Newegg has 780s already under $500 brand new... Where have you been? Lol

I'd expect 780s to drop to $400 new by November/December time if Maxwell comes out then. Pickup a used 780 for $300-350...

Seems like Maxwell is going to be a big jump in performance, so it'll be exciting what games will look like 1-2 years from now...


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## fateswarm

caaaled itttttt


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## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Nah I totally understand the idea, I'm like that on some items too.


Buying a used card is a lot like buying a used car. You don't know what the prior owner was using it for, how they were running it, or how they maintained it. Sometimes you make out ok, but there's definitely risk involved - higher risk, now that you might get a retired miner.


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## Ramzinho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PMan007*
> 
> Just in time to give away voucher for Ubi games (FC 4 and AC Unity) and/or Rockstar Games GTA V.


Reserved









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InfoWarrior*
> 
> It'll be exciting to see all the used 780 Ti's that can't even go for $500 the closer we get to Maxwell launch. Might just grab one of those.


500$ IS too much.. these might MSRP for 599$ if they are true about them being cheaper
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DETERMINOLOGY*
> 
> I would never touch a used gpu and with that ballpark price i would get a new maxwell instead


Used GPUs for right price is probably one of the best investments ... Get your Used stuff OFF ocn.. there are tons of decent people in here









In the end.. DO we Really Need 8GB VRAM now?


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## pterois

Most likely will trump Titan Black/780 Ti but what about the VRAM?


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## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ramzinho*
> 
> Reserved
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 500$ IS too much.. these might MSRP for 599$ if they are true about them being cheaper
> Used GPUs for right price is probably one of the best investments ... Get your Used stuff OFF ocn.. there are tons of decent people in here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the end.. DO we Really Need 8GB VRAM now?


Not if it's on a 256 bit interface.









but actually imagine the witcher 3 at 4k. but titans at 4k surround hit vram max of 6 gig's


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## Shiftstealth

I think 28nm makes 256bit make sense, 512bit would take more of the die so less performance so nvidia slaps some faster memory chips on it and calls it a day.


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## fateswarm

Meh, it's speculating about 256bit again. The 870 maybe.

And about 20nm. TSMC's body is ready for 20nm.


----------



## Ramzinho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deletive*
> 
> Not if it's on a 256 bit interface.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but actually imagine the witcher 3 at 4k. but titans at 4k surround hit vram max of 6 gig's


I wonder how many people can afford 4K surround man? that's like 4000 USD IN money... i don't know.. i think it's too much


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> I think 28nm makes 256bit make sense, 512bit would take more of the die so less performance so nvidia slaps some faster memory chips on it and calls it a day.


Not necessarily. If they design the back-end so 32 ROPs can supply a 512-bit bus instead of 256-bit, then it won't take up any more space. AMD, for example, had the 256-bit Pitcairn and 384-bit Tahiti use the same number of ROPs, even though those usually dictate bus width. Given that GM107 is using 16 ROPs for 128-bit buses, I'd assume that GM204 will follow in GK104's footsteps unfortunately. It's too early to say anything conclusive.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deletive*
> 
> but actually imagine the witcher 3 at 4k. but titans at 4k surround hit vram max of 6 gig's


Are there any tests that suggest 6GB is needed, or just that the program reserves as much VRAM as possible for itself, thus making that much appear to be in use? Titan Black vs 780Ti at the exact frequencies is the only fair way to test.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InfoWarrior*
> 
> In the end.. DO we Really Need 8GB VRAM now?


Duh. For future-proofing, obviously.


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## Dangur

2014 is the worst year ever. Nothing new, bunch of useless refreshes.


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## szeged

X99,


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## DETERMINOLOGY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ramzinho*
> 
> Reserved
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 500$ IS too much.. these might MSRP for 599$ if they are true about them being cheaper
> Used GPUs for right price is probably one of the best investments ... Get your Used stuff OFF ocn.. there are tons of decent people in here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the end.. DO we Really Need 8GB VRAM now?


Yea but i still dont trust but thanks


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## DETERMINOLOGY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> I think 28nm makes 256bit make sense, 512bit would take more of the die so less performance so nvidia slaps some faster memory chips on it and calls it a day.


But slower memory bandwidth possible..Like the 660ti


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## Deletive

Well if you look here, 256bit is only 50gb's short of 780's 288gb's. So lets just hope 8x the cache can make up about 50gb's in real world performance.from 256kb of cache to 2mb can make a huge difference.


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## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DETERMINOLOGY*
> 
> But slower memory bandwidth possible..Like the 660ti


I'm not even sure what you are implying? The 660ti had a 192 bit bus, but carried 2gb of memory. That had nothing to do with bandwidth.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deletive*
> 
> 
> 
> Well if you look here, 256bit is only 50gb's short of 780's 288gb's. So lets just hope 8x the cache can make up about 50gb's in real world performance.from 256kb of cache to 2mb can make a huge difference.


I think it was rumored that the cache doesn't scale per size and they were just increasing it to 2MB.


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## DETERMINOLOGY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deletive*
> 
> 
> 
> 238 gb/s is what i was talking about which is sorta low but fits the 256 bit


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## Forsakenfire

That memory bandwidth is a little worrying(if true), but I think I'm going to sell my 760s and get an 880, considering the Oculus Rift doesn't do well with SLI.


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## Typhoeus

Depending on the price, I'm just hoping to sell off my recently acquired GTX 770 and go for either an 870 (with SLI in the distant future) or just save up and grab an 880. Even if I lose half of my investment into the 770 I think I'll be ok with that.


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## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forsakenfire*
> 
> That memory bandwidth is a little worrying(if true)


Don't believe it. That was "leaked" a long time ago, and there's been nothing whatsoever to substantiate it.


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## Diogenes5

Ugh. Stupid TSMC is so far behind. We've been on this 28nm fab tech for way longer than we should have. Intel is already on 14nm this fall. Come on!


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diogenes5*
> 
> Ugh. Stupid TSMC is so far behind. We've been on this 28nm fab tech for way longer than we should have. Intel is already on 14nm this fall. Come on!


I agree, they are pretty far behind. I mean intel is only one company. TSMC has multiple companies funding them.


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## Yvese

If it's not ridiculously priced like the 780ti and more in the 780 - 290x range, I'd be interested.


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## PyroTechNiK

Was just going to pull the trigger on a 770. Even though this is a rumour, I'm happy I saw this thread. I waited this long..I may as well wait a little more.


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## hatlesschimp

Perfect timing for me Im going to build a new 4K / Oculus Rift rig in Jan. Surely they will have HDMI 2.0!!!


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## DETERMINOLOGY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PyroTechNiK*
> 
> Was just going to pull the trigger on a 770. Even though this is a rumour, I'm happy I saw this thread. I waited this long..I may as well wait a little more.


Yea right now is a bad time. Im holding on a gtx 760 and will be upgrading as well.


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## Deletive

"4K Display Support
 Added support for single-tile 4kx2k @ 60 Hz displays using bridgeless SLI cards."

I was just looking at the 340.43 beta driver to see if it's worth upgrading to and I saw this. can someone clear up the bridgeless sli cards thing or do you think we could be seeing bridgeless sli cards in the 800 series like the 290 and 290x did.


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## vlps5122

780 ti --> 880 looks to be the whole 580 --> 680 thing all over again. guess ill be holding out for the 980


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## XaNaX

how much did 770's cost upon release?


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## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XaNaX*
> 
> how much did 770's cost upon release?


I think 400


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## XaNaX

the 870 and 880 will be 8gb? hope that doesn't affect the price of the 870 too much


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## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XaNaX*
> 
> the 870 and 880 will be 8gb? hope that doesn't affect the price of the 870 too much


pretty sure the "standard" versions are going to be 4GB. I can be wrong, but Nvidia is not known for being generous with Vram.


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## XxOsurfer3xX

At last a solid leak, I hope 28nm is not true though...


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## i7monkey

I bought a 780 in May 2013, sold it and bought a 780Ti in November.

I've barely touched either. Maybe played 10-15 hours of games total using both cards.

What is wrong with me?


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## XaNaX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> I bought a 780 in May 2013, sold it and bought a 780Ti in November.
> 
> I've barely touched either. Maybe played 10-15 hours of games total using both cards.
> 
> What is wrong with me?


idk but i can pm you my address and pay for shipping


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## DADDYDC650

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> I bought a 780 in May 2013, sold it and bought a 780Ti in November.
> 
> I've barely touched either. Maybe played 10-15 hours of games total using both cards.
> 
> What is wrong with me?


Might be time for a new hobby.


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## jdstock76

Just acquired two 770s after ditching two 660tis. Looks like I may ditch those a little after release for the 880s. ;-)


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## gooface

welp, looks like the GTX 780 will go on sale later this year, or I might hold off till the 20nm cards come out.


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## DADDYDC650

I'm going to hold off until the GTX 880 TI Classified is released. Not going to be foolish to spend cash on early GTX 880's.


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## caladbolg

Of course. I order my 780Ti Classified, and this pops up, right outside the time frame of the Step-Up program. Cool. Great. Awesome.


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## vlps5122

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caladbolg*
> 
> Of course. I order my 780Ti Classified, and this pops up, right outside the time frame of the Step-Up program. Cool. Great. Awesome.


and by the time the 880 classified and 880 ti classified are released, talks of the standard 980 are brewing, that is the cycle, get use to it


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## caladbolg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vlps5122*
> 
> and by the time the 880 classified and 880 ti classified are released, talks of the standard 980 are brewing, that is the cycle, get use to it


Yeahh...I was just hoping to dump my planned 3x 1080p screens and run a single 4k assuming the 880 did well with it. I'll just deal and wait for the 980Ti classified and crank the hell out of that.

EDIT: Hell, the 780Ti Classified is on my door step right now according to FedEx.


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## Rmerwede

Looks like I'll get another 780 if necessary, and wait for the true champion... Whatever GM210 @ 20nm turns out to be. Looks like the 980 if they do the same thing as they did with Kepler.


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## vlps5122

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rmerwede*
> 
> Looks like I'll get another 780 if necessary, and wait for the true champion... Whatever GM210 @ 20nm turns out to be. Looks like the 980 if they do the same thing as they did with Kepler.


thats what im thinking and planning my upgrade around


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## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XaNaX*
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> I bought a 780 in May 2013, sold it and bought a 780Ti in November.
> 
> I've barely touched either. Maybe played 10-15 hours of games total using both cards.
> 
> What is wrong with me?
> 
> 
> 
> idk but i can pm you my address and pay for shipping
Click to expand...

No problem.

GTX 780 = $659 + taxes + shipping + customs = ~$800.

- $450 after selling it

+

GTX 780 Ti = $699 + taxes + shipping + customs = ~$850.

So $800 - $450 + 850 = $1200.

$1200 is roughly how much I paid for the 780Ti after the money lost from the 780.

$1200 - generous $150 used discount (plus it's in mint condition, barely been used) - $50 brotherly OCN discount = $1000.

I only accept cash, and it's upfront. What's your address so I can ship you my $1000 GTX 780Ti?


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## StrongForce

Cool...so like 5months+ for the modded cards, I personally don't really need a Ti. but the question is, can I hold this long with my overly old 5870







, like someone said, I've waited this long so I might aswell wait, but 6months, ouchies !

Also I don't really care for the 28nm, as long as the performance improve, and then the VRAM, the efficiency is a bonus yea..

Could it be possible that this time they release maxwell 880's etc on 28nm and they pull out a refresh in 20nm whenever they can ? (or might just be a next gen uh) but I got to say that feels a bit stupid to have 28nm cards since everyone IS waiting for 20nm..


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## hatlesschimp

Whats so good about 20nm vs 28nm?


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## DETERMINOLOGY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> I bought a 780 in May 2013, sold it and bought a 780Ti in November.
> 
> I've barely touched either. Maybe played 10-15 hours of games total using both cards.
> 
> What is wrong with me?


Honestly ive ran with a 780/780 ti and i felt the upgrade wasnt worth it and more so if you have the 780 your pretty solid


----------



## Booty Warrior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vlps5122*
> 
> 780 ti --> 880 looks to be the whole 580 --> 680 thing all over again. guess ill be holding out for the 980


Yes indeed.

I'm not budging until a _fully_ unlocked GM200/210 is available. I'm just hoping they don't screw around and segment big Max's release like the 780, Titan, 780 Ti fiasco.


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## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Booty Warrior*
> 
> Yes indeed.
> 
> I'm not budging until a _fully_ unlocked GM200/210 is available. *I'm just hoping they don't screw around and segment big Max's release like the 780, Titan, 780 Ti fiasco*.


Titan was a huge cash cow, so they will.

GM204 GTX 880

GM210 Titan 2

GM210 GTX 980

GTX 980 TI









Titan 2 Black
















I'm not budging until we see a fully unlocked Big Maxwell either, but the problem is the next big thing (Pascal) will be right around the corner.

We have two choices. Get shafted by a mid-range next gen release and pay high prices or paying WAAAAY too much by waiting for the real deal, only to have the next best thing right around the corner.

I wish Intel could get in on the high end GPU business. They'd be miles ahead of AMD and Nvidia since they have their own fab, no?


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## QSS-5

next lineup of GPUs will be 20nm. do the math.

http://www.coindesk.com/kncminer-unveils-20nm-neptune-chips/


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## Recipe7

Hope someone can answer this for me:

What are the chances the 870 or 880 will only require 2x 6pin PCI connections?

For myself, I won't move from my 2x 670s unless one of the 800s is equivalent to 2x 670s. I also don't want to replace my nice black custom made pci cables


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## CynicalUnicorn

High if they pull a 680 again. No flagship's TDP should be below 200W EVER.


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## DETERMINOLOGY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Titan was a huge cash cow, so they will.
> 
> GM204 GTX 880
> 
> GM210 Titan 2
> 
> GM210 GTX 980
> 
> GTX 980 TI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Titan 2 Black
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not budging until we see a fully unlocked Big Maxwell either, but the problem is the next big thing (Pascal) will be right around the corner.
> 
> We have two choices. Get shafted by a mid-range next gen release and pay high prices or paying WAAAAY too much by waiting for the real deal, only to have the next best thing right around the corner.
> 
> I wish Intel could get in on the high end GPU business. They'd be miles ahead of AMD and Nvidia since they have their own fab, no?


My opinion its way to early to be knowing the specs on 800 series..People jumping the guns way to early lets see final specs before seeing if its worth or not


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## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DETERMINOLOGY*
> 
> My opinion its way to early to be knowing the specs on 800 series..People jumping the guns way to early lets see final specs before seeing if its worth or not


You're right, but Nvidia has no reason to give us a break on this.

They got away with murder with the 600 series and Titan, so I'm sure they'll do that again. There's no reason for them to give a a big die GM200 for cheap.


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## Robertdt

For Nvidia's most recent releases, has the most novel thing been new features, faster performance, or a new $3,000 GPU price point?


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## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Titan was a huge cash cow, so they will.
> 
> GM204 GTX 880
> 
> GM210 Titan 2
> 
> GM210 GTX 980
> 
> GTX 980 TI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Titan 2 Black
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not budging until we see a fully unlocked Big Maxwell either, but the problem is the next big thing (Pascal) will be right around the corner.
> 
> We have two choices. Get shafted by a mid-range next gen release and pay high prices or paying WAAAAY too much by waiting for the real deal, only to have the next best thing right around the corner.
> 
> I wish Intel could get in on the high end GPU business. They'd be miles ahead of AMD and Nvidia since they have their own fab, no?


I'd pick up a Titan 2 if it has Arm chips on the board. that is if 3ds max and vray have uses for it.


----------



## StrongForce

Someone help me decide whether I get a temporary upgrade before these cards or not lol, I was thinking like an Ebay r9 280x.. some sell direct sell for 190 euros thats 200$ roughly.. sounds, good but almost too beefy for just a temporary upgrade (what I mean is I wanted to get that next-gen, uber VRAM card and if I get a r9 280x and it keep working I could probably use it for 2 years before upgrading maybe not MAX all the games but almost), meh lol, the new r9 270x are 150 euros at minimum.. It's hard to make a choice really ! I have to think that I can still sell it once I want to upgrade, but since I never done selling cards (or anythign really) it feels weird..


----------



## fateswarm

I believe the R9 290 is still a confident purchase. It's not a price that hurts, it's marginally very high end, and it will be most likely replaced by AMD after Q1 of 2015. The 780 seemed like a good deal too (non-Ti) though compared to the 290 offers its price hurts and it will be probably replaced by NVIDIA in Autumn.


----------



## Olivon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> And about 20nm. TSMC's body is ready for 20nm.


With Qualcomm announcing their next 20nm chips on 1H'15, I'm cleary not sure the body is strong enough right now.
And they're a big big customer for TSMC, bigger than nVidia.


----------



## fateswarm

Qualcomm doesn't have to call dibs on the whole of TSMC.


----------



## Chargeit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> I bought a 780 in May 2013, sold it and bought a 780Ti in November.
> 
> I've barely touched either. Maybe played 10-15 hours of games total using both cards.
> 
> What is wrong with me?


Some times we just like to have nice things.

My main system is a 4770k / 780. Really nice gaming rig.

I just put together a AMD build using some old parts, and some new. I put in a HD 5450 since the system is just going to used for surfing the web, opening wikis while on my main system, things like that... The HD 5450 did the trick... OF course I couldn't get past the idea of not having a good card in it. Two days after building the system, I was on Newegg ordering a R9 270x. Now I've got a system doing nothing but web browsing with a $180 GPU in it, in the same room as a system with a $520 GPU.

It's called being an enthusiast. It doesn't have to make sense if you enjoy it and it makes you happy.


----------



## Olivon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Qualcomm doesn't have to call dibs on the whole of TSMC.


Qualcomm does little dies compared to gigantic GPU ones and 28nm is yielding good now.
I clearly don't see nVidia going 20nm before them.


----------



## BakerMan1971

I agree with Fateswarm, Strongforce, if you are in the market right now (as I was a few weeks ago) the R9 290 is a fantastic card, which barely even breaks a sweat unless you start throwing 4k at it









As far as advice on ex mining cards goes, I am not 100% sure if they are a terrible idea or not, the lifespan may have been reduced but I am no expert there.

Good luck


----------



## Bluemustang

Mining cards are fine. Most people keep their cards under 80C and ive heard of people running their cards at that for years constantly with no problems. So instead of the card lasting 10 years maybe itll last 8. You wont be using the card then anyway


----------



## Silent Scone

Looks like I'll keep hold of the Ti's till Christmas...


----------



## Serandur

I've had a 780 GHz for two and a half months so far. This news has me conflicted. On the one hand, I'm very happy with my 780's performance in most things, however certain trends of inefficient and/or excessive VRAM usage in recent games has me fearing my 780 isn't adequate enough to remain stutter-free and running higher resolution textures. What should I be thinking other than disappointment (Nvidia







)?







Also, I agree with the people saying it's a tough spot to either swallow the pill on an expensive mid-range chip posed as a high-end one, or wait for the real high-end and have the next-generation chips around the corner.


----------



## Ramzinho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serandur*
> 
> I've had a 780 GHz for two and a half months so far. This news has me conflicted. On the one hand, I'm very happy with my 780's performance in most things, however certain trends of inefficient and/or excessive VRAM usage in recent games has me fearing my 780 isn't adequate enough to remain stutter-free and running higher resolution textures. What should I be thinking other than disappointment (Nvidia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I agree with the people saying it's a tough spot to either swallow the pill on an expensive mid-range chip posed as a high-end one, or wait for the real high-end and have the next-generation chips around the corner.


what you suffer from now is very bad game coding, or driver issues. wait them and the game studio or Nvidia will work it out for you.


----------



## Chrono Detector

Does anybody know will these cards feature HDMI 2.0? I need a GPU that has HDMI 2.0 because I just bought a 4K TV and I would prefer it at 60Hz.


----------



## pterois

They should.


----------



## StrongForce

Yea.. thanks for your advising guys, I think I might jump on that saphire toxic r9 290 for 330 euros.. I had my eyes on the 290 since release anyway, and now that I installed win7 on my ssd I should have no problem memory leak/ AMD wise with bf4 so..

And 6 months is hell of a wait, so yea might rather go for a nice card, I should have a job by then also so the 800's series if it's worthy enough could still be in my reach


----------



## jdstock76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Booty Warrior*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *vlps5122*
> 
> 780 ti --> 880 looks to be the whole 580 --> 680 thing all over again. guess ill be holding out for the 980
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed.
> 
> I'm not budging until a _fully_ unlocked GM200/210 is available. I'm just hoping they don't screw around and segment big Max's release like the 780, Titan, 780 Ti fiasco.
Click to expand...

Yes but 780ti = 880 @ 780 price. Seems like a win.


----------



## szeged

I don't think the 780ti will be equal to the 880


----------



## Emotional Post-it Note

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> I don't think the 780ti will be equal to the 880


I agree. Even if it's cheaper it would look bad for their new 880 to be released and not match the 780 Ti. It has to do that at least, imo.


----------



## Ramzinho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Emotional Post-it Note*
> 
> I agree. Even if it's cheaper it would look bad for their new 880 to be released and not match the 780 Ti. It has to do that at least, imo.


why didn't they bother with that with the titan? the 780 made the titan look awful .. not to mention the ti







.. Nvidia doesn't look very far. they just release expensive stuff that goes oos on spot


----------



## melodystyle2003

Interesting news.
I was upset cause a recently bought gtx 780 which was a good clocker, 1306/1750 @ 1.21V, died in few hours, so i ve left with the disappointment. At least i get the money back.
I guess a gtx760 or a used r9 290 is enough since maxwell arrives sooner that expected. End of off topic.


----------



## DETERMINOLOGY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BakerMan1971*
> 
> I agree with Fateswarm, Strongforce, if you are in the market right now (as I was a few weeks ago) the R9 290 is a fantastic card, which barely even breaks a sweat unless you start throwing 4k at it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as advice on ex mining cards goes, I am not 100% sure if they are a terrible idea or not, the lifespan may have been reduced but I am no expert there.
> 
> Good luck


At this moment i wouldnt go for a gpu even tho the r9 290 is a great card but knowing nv is about to let the hands go i would rather wait then weigh my options instead of possible buy the card now then having buyer remorse it can happen


----------



## StrongForce

I know but I'm getting tired of running bf4 at min settings lol, and have a few $ spare so.. don't know if I can wait 6 more months ! but in the other hand bf4 is the only graphic requiring game I play right now ahh

Perhaps I should just go for a used r9 270x OC.. that's got to be cheap
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *melodystyle2003*
> 
> Interesting news.
> I was upset cause a recently bought gtx 780 which was a good clocker, 1306/1750 @ 1.21V, died in few hours, so i ve left with the disappointment. At least i get the money back.
> I guess a gtx760 or a used r9 290 is enough since maxwell arrives sooner that expected. End of off topic.


you mean you just sent it back to get your money back i guess


----------



## ximatekorange

in response to,

Does anybody know will these cards feature HDMI 2.0? I need a GPU that has HDMI 2.0 because I just bought a 4K TV and I would prefer it at 60Hz.

just thought I would clarify the latest NVidia drivers with everyone here 340.43 beta I own a Samsung UE40HU6900 4k tv which accepts 4k at 60hz via hdmi 2.0. It seems that by magic with the latest NVidia drivers my dreams have come true! yesterday evening I installed the new driver and found that my 4ktv was now running at 4k 60hz via hi-speed hdmi (akord 2160p) cable. Initially I was thinking this can't be right how is this possible as my rig is 4 way gtx titans and the titans support 1.4 not the newer 2.0 version. Anyways it seems the current generation of cards can support 4k 60hz over hdmi now the draw backs,

after finding this out I decided to do some gaming o dear this is where the problems began. Initially I maximised 3d performance to enable 4 way sli in the NVidia control as per usual with any new driver install. Then I ran unigine the screen was a right mess full of artifacts and green horizontal lines. After disabling the benchmark I decided to try a single card and by magic the problem was solved unigine ran fine. The issue to me here is sli no surprise there then NVidia!

I then decided to dig deeper and found in the release notes for 340.43 beta that,



so the issue here is that 4k sli rendering at 60hz seems to be only supported by a bridgeless cards which does not exist with the current gpu's that rely on sli bridges to operate in sli mode. That said the fact that 4k at 60hz is now possible is amazing especially over hdmi as I have owned a 4k monitor and a 4k tv and the tv is by far superior in colour and viewing angles than any tn panel e.g. the ud590d by Samsung. I would rather use a 4ktv over a monitor any day 4k makes so much more sense at 40 inches and above although the mind boggles why they don't put displayport 1.2 on 4ktv but that is a different subject for another day. Well I hope that you guys found this helpful as I felt that I had to share this amazing news on 4k at 60hz over hdmi I await your response's

confirming 60hz at 4k




my rig




Samsung ud590d (previous setup rubbish tn panel)


----------



## melodystyle2003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> I know but I'm getting tired of running bf4 at min settings lol, and have a few $ spare so.. don't know if I can wait 6 more months ! but in the other hand bf4 is the only graphic requiring game I play right now ahh
> 
> Perhaps I should just go for a used r9 270x OC.. that's got to be cheap
> 
> you mean you just sent it back to get your money back i guess


Correct, i am waiting for the refund. Yeah a 270x is enough with custom settings.


----------



## StrongForce

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2013/11/13/amd-radeon-r9-270-review/4

Yea runs high settings flawlessely apparently so that's good for now ! Oh and what the heck, powecolor OC performs less than the core version LOL









Some guy is selling MSI OC version on ebay one with broken blade for 70 euros, noone bid, one without damage 99 euro, 14hours left and no bid yet.. should I contact him saying I buy both at like 120 euro ?







then repair/replace the fan, cause the warranty is most likely void if the blade is broken.. human mistake lol


----------



## Asmodean

So, possibly another 1080p card for 5/600+?. If so, no thanks >.>

I hope the big boys will be out in time for The Witcher 3, though.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asmodean*
> 
> So, possibly another 1080p card for 5/600+?. If so, no thanks >.>
> 
> I hope the big boys will be out in time for The Witcher 3, though.


pretty sure this card, in whatever form it is going to be released, is better across all resolutions than current options (maybe besides Titan Z, 295X and extremely high clocked 780 Ti's).


----------



## Asmodean

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> pretty sure this card, in whatever form it is going to be released, is better across all resolutions than current options (maybe besides Titan Z, 295X and extremely high clocked 780 Ti's).


I dunno tbh, regardless. Really don't think I could bring myself to fork out, for another card with a 256 bit interface. I know the new Maxwell has arch improvements/cache etc., But, 256-bit just bloody nose-dives after 1080p, even at 2560x1440. Memory bandwidth is memory bandwidth. ultimately overall, regardless of arch.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asmodean*
> 
> I dunno tbh, regardless. Really don't think I could bring myself to fork out, for another card with a 256 bit interface. I know the new Maxwell has arch improvements/cache etc., But, 256-bit just bloody nose-dives after 1080p, even at 2560x1440. Memory bandwidth is memory bandwidth. ultimately overall, regardless of arch.


yeah I can totally understand. I might buy one since I am not satisfied with the performance of my 680 on 1080p, but only if it has a really good price/performance ratio when it launches.


----------



## PyroTechNiK

Heh. Was going to wait for a 870 but pulled the trigger on a 770. Got a good deal on it.


----------



## LBear

Well... looks like it time to retire my 670. Came close to dropping money on a 780 a few times. Im glad i didn't.


----------



## Accuracy158

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LBear*
> 
> Well... looks like it time to retire my 670. Came close to dropping money on a 780 a few times. Im glad i didn't.


I'm in the exact same boat. I'm really starting to need a new card for 2560x1440. I really don't mind skipping a release of cards and doing SLI for bang per buck it offers. However at the rate vram has been increasing it presents a problem when considering SLI so I actually want a card that is a little overkill (4GB+).

...All that being said I do believe vram is being over rated. People are frequently considering how much texture a certain game will cash but not necessarily the point at which any less vram effects performance. Just because a game will use 4GBs on a card that has it, doesn't always mean that the game needs all 4GBs to run optimally. It's obvious when you need more vram if you're not getting huge momentary stutters don't worry about it... usually more computing power will do more for performance than addition vram.


----------



## StrongForce

r9 290 should do fine ! if you want over super kill [email protected] the r9 290x 8gb being out of the equation i guess you're not rich







lol


----------



## Ramzinho

i don't know guys. i don't feel this will be as cheap as they say. i believe the 880 will be at least 699$ at release and people will be killing each other over it and there will be a lot of stock issues. anyways we will see how this goes. i might hold back on buying 290Xs if they really give a release date and MSRP.


----------



## szeged

people can kill each other over the reference models all they want, ill be swingin when the classifieds come out


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> people can kill each other over the reference models all they want, ill be swingin when the classifieds come out


Lol ya I don't want a reference cooler again, the only good side though is that it actually blows air out the case ..that's pretty handy especially when you run an FX like me uh lol


----------



## Accuracy158

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> r9 290 should do fine ! if you want over super kill [email protected] the r9 290x 8gb being out of the equation i guess you're not rich
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol


I don't think super overkill is necessary. I'm not considering 4k personally until Microsoft improves windows scaling. 2560x1440 make everything small enough without any scaling.

People are going to judge me on this next part and I hope no one from Nvidia ever reads this, as I don't want to encourage this kind of thought process... but the green team has kind of locked me into their ecosystem for a little bit... Reason being that I really enjoy my Nvidia Shield streaming.


----------



## _Killswitch_

I have a EVGA GTX 680 2GB, been great card but I have been wanting to upgrade to a newer card with higher Vram. If the 880 isn't priced insanely stupid then I will replace it with that and be happy for a few years.

Been holding off because I think video card price's are too high. We have Titan Z/black/ reg, GTX 780 Ti and the plain jane 780's barely under $500? come on now.

and 290/290x's shot up in price...call me cheap if you want.


----------



## Emotional Post-it Note

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_Killswitch_*
> 
> I have a EVGA GTX 680 2GB, been great card but I have been wanting to upgrade to a newer card with higher Vram. If the 880 isn't priced insanely stupid then I will replace it with that and be happy for a few years.
> 
> Been holding off because I think video card price's are too high. We have Titan Z/black/ reg, GTX 780 Ti and the plain jane 780's barely under $500? come on now.
> 
> and 290/290x's shot up in price...call me cheap if you want.


Not cheap at all. I just bought a GTX 780 Ti and I feel like the purchase wasn't exactly a "good deal". Wish I'd waited a few months for some discounts and the new silicon. Oh well! Something better always comes out.


----------



## Chrono Detector

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ximatekorange*
> 
> in response to,
> 
> Does anybody know will these cards feature HDMI 2.0? I need a GPU that has HDMI 2.0 because I just bought a 4K TV and I would prefer it at 60Hz.
> 
> just thought I would clarify the latest NVidia drivers with everyone here 340.43 beta I own a Samsung UE40HU6900 4k tv which accepts 4k at 60hz via hdmi 2.0. It seems that by magic with the latest NVidia drivers my dreams have come true! yesterday evening I installed the new driver and found that my 4ktv was now running at 4k 60hz via hi-speed hdmi (akord 2160p) cable. Initially I was thinking this can't be right how is this possible as my rig is 4 way gtx titans and the titans support 1.4 not the newer 2.0 version. Anyways it seems the current generation of cards can support 4k 60hz over hdmi ***! now the draw backs,
> 
> after finding this out I decided to do some gaming o dear this is where the problems began. Initially I maximised 3d performance to enable 4 way sli in the NVidia control as per usual with any new driver install. Then I ran unigine the screen was a right mess full of artifacts and green horizontal lines. After disabling the benchmark I decided to try a single card and by magic the problem was solved unigine ran fine. The issue to me here is sli no surprise there then NVidia!
> 
> I then decided to dig deeper and found in the release notes for 340.43 beta that,
> 
> 
> 
> so the issue here is that 4k sli rendering at 60hz seems to be only supported by a bridgeless cards which does not exist with the current gpu's that rely on sli bridges to operate in sli mode. That said the fact that 4k at 60hz is now possible is amazing especially over hdmi as I have owned a 4k monitor and a 4k tv and the tv is by far superior in colour and viewing angles than any tn panel e.g. the ud590d by Samsung. I would rather use a 4ktv over a monitor any day 4k makes so much more sense at 40 inches and above although the mind boggles why they don't put displayport 1.2 on 4ktv but that is a different subject for another day. Well I hope that you guys found this helpful as I felt that I had to share this amazing news on 4k at 60hz over hdmi I await your response's
> 
> confirming 60hz at 4k
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my rig
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samsung ud590d (previous setup rubbish tn panel)


That was interesting, I too am using GTX 670 in SLI but having issues at 60Hz with SLI enabled does suck. Hopefully this will be addressed in a future driver update maybe? But thanks for providing your feedback.


----------



## saeedkunna

i too have same problem with sli 4k @60p but when i turn it off it runs very well


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Accuracy158*
> 
> I don't think super overkill is necessary. I'm not considering 4k personally until Microsoft improves windows scaling. 2560x1440 make everything small enough without any scaling.
> 
> People are going to judge me on this next part and I hope no one from Nvidia ever reads this, as I don't want to encourage this kind of thought process... but the green team has kind of locked me into their ecosystem for a little bit... Reason being that I really enjoy my Nvidia Shield streaming.


Personally I wouldn't upgrade to a Nvidia 3gb as the VRAM might become a limit soon (and buying a GPU at this price to be limited next year doesn't feel right) though. especially with a 1440p.

I'm still not sure personally what I'm gonna get for a temporary upgrade, it's either 270x or 280x second hand


----------



## Glottis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serandur*
> 
> I've had a 780 GHz for two and a half months so far. This news has me conflicted. On the one hand, I'm very happy with my 780's performance in most things, however certain trends of inefficient and/or excessive VRAM usage in recent games has me fearing my 780 isn't adequate enough to remain stutter-free and running higher resolution textures. What should I be thinking other than disappointment (Nvidia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I agree with the people saying it's a tough spot to either swallow the pill on an expensive mid-range chip posed as a high-end one, or wait for the real high-end and have the next-generation chips around the corner.


you are disappointed that you've bought a GPU that is almost year old now and that replacement for it will be released in 4 months? welcome to PC world.








also, just because there are new GPUs coming doesn't mean your current one will become slower. next time buy new GPU on release day if you want the feeling of having latest to stay longer


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Glottis*
> 
> you are disappointed that you've bought a GPU that is almost year old now and that replacement for it will be released in 4 months? welcome to PC world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also, just because there are new GPUs coming doesn't mean your current one will become slower. next time buy new GPU on release day if you want the feeling of having latest to stay longer


No, that's not what I'm disappointed about. I know how old the 780 is, I'm only disappointed that it seems like it will be limited due to its VRAM amount, not its speed (much rather prefer the opposite; I don't get abruptly loaded-in textures and stuttering with just less core processing capability). The GK110 is a monster GPU, I don't give a rat's ass that it will have a replacement that will be faster (~6 months minimum after I bought it) because there is nothing the GPU struggles with and I needed a new GPU, no doubt about it, when I bought mine back in March. I'm simply disappointed by the VRAM amount, nothing else. Would have bought a 6 GB model if I could have, but Nvidia didn't allow those because of their damn Titan. Had I bought the 290 instead I would feel perfectly fine, but I really like Nvidia's downsampling support and the 290s certainly weren't cheaper during the mining craze when I bought the card.


----------



## Nickyvida

Annd the milking continues. They cant seem to get enough of cash even after the titan z debacle and they still wanna milk 28nm? Its gone on too far long already.

Looks like i have to wait longer for a 20nm sli card.


----------



## Stay Puft

The complaining continues. I'd gladly take a 1500+ cuda core Maxwell GTX 880 for 500 usd. The 750 Ti is a gem so i could only imagine something with double the cuda cores and memory bandwidth.


----------



## Nickyvida

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> The complaining continues. I'd gladly take a 1500+ cuda core Maxwell GTX 880 for 500 usd. The 750 Ti is a gem so i could only imagine something with double the cuda cores and memory bandwidth.


If the 750ti was a gem it doesn't mean the 880 will be one. Furthermore,buying the 880 at probably a price they will inflate at launch gives them the green light to delay and milk customers on a old processes for minimal performance increases and for a massive premium. This is why I'm holding off till big 20nm true maxwells


----------



## Wezzor

This might a be a little off-topic question and for you even a stupid one. But how do you know if the card you wanna buy blows the hot air out of the case or not?


----------



## spqmax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wezzor*
> 
> This might a be a little off-topic question and for you even a stupid one. But how do you know if the card you wanna buy blows the hot air out of the case or not?


simple way to put it:
reference "blower" cooler = blows air out the back
"custom" coolers (e.g. acx) = blows air around


----------



## Clocknut

Next gen consoles have 8 GB RAM, they'll have ~3-4GB VRAM just for GPU all at 720p. if the game is ported to PC to run even @ just 1080/1440/1600p + higher resolution texture = that means we need a GPU with 8GB Vram to be able to run all consoles ported game effectively.


----------



## pterois

Actually consoles use around 5.5GB for graphics and could use even more if the developer deems it necessary. Certain developers commented that the whole 8GB could be used up quite easily.


----------



## routek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocknut*
> 
> Next gen consoles have 8 GB RAM, they'll have ~3-4GB VRAM just for GPU all at 720p. if the game is ported to PC to run even @ just 1080/1440/1600p + higher resolution texture = that means we need a GPU with 8GB Vram to be able to run all consoles ported game effectively.


PS4 and Xbox One have 5GB allocated for games

This 5GB is for video and system so usually they'll split that in half but they can use 3gb for video and 2gb for system if they want. Xbox One has to go through small ESRAM as well which is very limiting.


----------



## szeged

I love seeing people say games will require at least 6gb vram just because of the label "next gen" they get lol. Back in October everyone was saying games coming out in March/April would require at least 4gb cards just for 1080p, guess my 780ti playing @ 4k kinda kills that argument.


----------



## pterois

What games are you referring to? Next Gen games aren't out yet.


----------



## fateswarm

Badly coded games may require it. It's ironic that some benchmarks appear "good" because the optimization is most probably bad.


----------



## L36

Pretty sure they might skip 20nm entirely and head off to 16nm. Though unlikely, but possible. As for 880 and 870 being 28nm its very likely.

I'm happy with the titan black. Enough OC headroom and vram to last until 16nm.


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wezzor*
> 
> This might a be a little off-topic question and for you even a stupid one. But how do you know if the card you wanna buy blows the hot air out of the case or not?


The ones with 1 fan usually blow air outside, and the one with multiple fans don't


----------



## ASUSfreak

Always fun to read when you just bought the 780Ti









I knew it was comming, but WHEN!!!! And that when has been told now


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nickyvida*
> 
> If the 750ti was a gem it doesn't mean the 880 will be one. Furthermore,buying the 880 at probably a price they will inflate at launch gives them the green light to delay and milk customers on a old processes for minimal performance increases and for a massive premium. This is why I'm holding off till big 20nm true maxwells


Milking customers? Is that how you see it? It's a whole new architecture. Milking would be releasing Kepler again as a rebrand


----------



## NABBO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> just because of the label "next gen" they get lol.


imho, this recent obsession with VRAM.... because of a recent game, optimized by a drunken monkey, with horrible performance with all video cards.

Watch Dogs


----------



## DETERMINOLOGY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> The complaining continues. I'd gladly take a 1500+ cuda core Maxwell GTX 880 for 500 usd. The 750 Ti is a gem so i could only imagine something with double the cuda cores and memory bandwidth.


1500+ cuda cores on a 880 for 500$ usd? I think you got your core numbers out of wack


----------



## MapRef41N93W

I'm expecting:
GTX 880 20%-30% increase over GTX 780 with 6/8GB models and less power usage 512 bit bus @ 549.99
GTX 870 5-10% increase over GTX 780 with 4/6GB models 256 or 384 bit bus (whichever interface works with that memory) @ 399.99

Once AMD releases Volcanic Islands 2.0 we will get GTX 880ti 10-15% increase over GTX 880 @ 699.99


----------



## Clocknut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> I love seeing people say games will require at least 6gb vram just because of the label "next gen" they get lol. Back in October everyone was saying games coming out in March/April would require at least 4gb cards just for 1080p, guess my 780ti playing @ 4k kinda kills that argument.


People are saying the future upcoming titles. At the end of console life cycle, Game developer will use up all the VRAM, stretching the console RAM entirely.

The problem with current generation GPU is that = it has faster GPU with not enough VRAM because the console GPU setup is a 7870GPU with a very Large VRAM. Future games are going to design to run that way.

I am not going to settle anything less than 8GB vram for my next GPU.


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdstock76*
> 
> Yes but 780ti = 880 @ 780 price. Seems like a win.


780ti would be a lot lower performance than a 880 but at a 780 price. I'm expecting 860 ti to be equal to a 780 like 580 was to 660ti. and 780 to be 25-30% better than a 780 ti.. while the 880 will be 40-50%


----------



## Nickyvida

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Milking customers? Is that how you see it? It's a whole new architecture. Milking would be releasing Kepler again as a rebrand


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Milking customers? Is that how you see it? It's a whole new architecture. Milking would be releasing Kepler again as a rebrand


Anything on a 28nm process node is a rebrand, no matter how you put it. We have been on 28nm for 3 years and its high time we moved to 20nm. The process is more than matured. It should be retired seeing how Nvidia has hit the wall with the gk 110


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nickyvida*
> 
> Anything on a 28nm process node is a rebrand, no matter how you put it. We have been on 28nm for 3 years and its high time we moved to 20nm. The process is more than matured. It should be retired seeing how Nvidia has hit the wall with the gk 110


How is a new architecture a re-brand? They have not hit the wall on 28nm, Maxwell is going to bring plenty of improvement.


----------



## DoktorCreepy

Where are people getting this 3 years of 28nm discrete GPU's from?

The 7970 was launched in early January of 2012, the GTX 680 was launched in late March.

Thats currently 2 and half years for AMD 28nm and 2 years 3 months for Nvidia 28nm. Did people forget how to count or what?

By NEXT year we will be at the 3 year mark.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoktorCreepy*
> 
> Where are people getting this 3 years of 28nm discrete GPU's from?
> 
> The 7970 was launched in early January of 2012, the GTX 680 was launched in late March.
> 
> Thats currently 2 and half years for AMD 28nm and 2 years 3 months for Nvidia 28nm. Did people forget how to count or what?
> 
> By NEXT year we will be at the 3 year mark.


If releases come in q4 of this year to q2 of next year it'll pretty much be a 3 year cycle


----------



## DoktorCreepy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> If releases come in q4 of this year to q2 of next year it'll pretty much be a 3 year cycle


Yeah I said 3 years in 2015 in my previous post.

We can thank TSMC for their crappy 20nm process and unwillingness to push foward now that they are getting the sweet pay from Apple.

At least the Samsung and Global Foundries deal is going through for future nodes.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nickyvida*
> 
> Anything on a 28nm process node is a rebrand, no matter how you put it. We have been on 28nm for 3 years and its high time we moved to 20nm. The process is more than matured. It should be retired seeing how Nvidia has hit the wall with the gk 110


No, it isn't a rebrand. It's an entirely new architecture. Just look at the core configuration. Maxwell has a different SPU to TMU ratio than Kepler, for example. That can't be a rebrand.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocknut*
> 
> People are saying the future upcoming titles. At the end of console life cycle, Game developer will use up all the VRAM, stretching the console RAM entirely.
> 
> The problem with current generation GPU is that = it has faster GPU with not enough VRAM because the console GPU setup is a 7870GPU with a very Large VRAM. Future games are going to design to run that way.
> 
> I am not going to settle anything less than 8GB vram for my next GPU.


HA! Consoles. Let's just say that next-gen isn't. Alright, there are a couple things wrong with your VRAM claim:
1) The consoles are APUs, meaning the 8GB is split between system and video RAM
2) The OSes reserve quite a bit, around 2-2.5GB IIRC
So you're left with 5.5-6GB total for games. That's 3GB system memory and 2.5-3GB video memory. Obviously it can be added or subtracted, but 4GB VRAM is the absolute max they'll be able to use.


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> HA! Consoles. Let's just say that next-gen isn't. Alright, there are a couple things wrong with your VRAM claim:
> 1) The consoles are APUs, meaning the 8GB is split between system and video RAM
> 2) The OSes reserve quite a bit, around 2-2.5GB IIRC
> So you're left with 5.5-6GB total for games. That's 3GB system memory and 2.5-3GB video memory. Obviously it can be added or subtracted, but 4GB VRAM is the absolute max they'll be able to use.


While all true, it begs the question of why 780s individually with 3x the rendering power of a PS4's GPU have the same or potentially even less VRAM to work with even though they'll be driving higher resolutions, higher-resolution textures, greater rendering distances/shadows/physics, better AA, etc. Especially for anyone planning on doing SLI/Xfire, there's no way you wouldn't want to be way above what these consoles have to work with as we would be inherently pushing greater... everything, really. Let alone caching textures so they don't need to be streamed in and out as often...


----------



## pterois

The consoles' unified memory is entirely different than the VRAM of a GPU. Let's not forget though that many multi-platform next gen titles will be more advanced on PC therefore require a lot more horsepower and most likely more VRAM to run all that Ultra resolution textures and GameWorks features and enhancements. The option for higher resolutions raises that requirement even higher and even @1080 using downscaling or supersampling can almost double the amount of memory used. There's no question that future GPUs' should have more VRAM. The option for multi GPU setups is always there for increased performance but the memory buffer should also be available. And yes at this point 8GB would be appropriate with 6GB being the bare minimum. Hopefully Nvidia will not disappoint.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serandur*
> 
> While all true, it begs the question of why 780s individually with 3x the rendering power of a PS4's GPU have the same or potentially even less VRAM to work with even though they'll be driving higher resolutions, higher-resolution textures, greater rendering distances/shadows/physics, better AA, etc. Especially for anyone planning on doing SLI/Xfire, there's no way you wouldn't want to be way above what these consoles have to work with as we would be inherently pushing greater... everything, really. Let alone caching textures so they don't need to be streamed in and out as often...


Because 780s are based on a substructure and memory bus that came out some time ago.


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Because 780s are based on a substructure and memory bus that came out some time ago.


A substructure and memory bus that fully supports 6 GBs of VRAM, was debuted as 6 GBs of VRAM (the Titan), and was released as-is with no greater options as Nvidia historically allowed (3 GB 580, 4 GB 680), even with the latest release a mere half a year ago (780 Ti)? Is that an agreement that 780s absolutely could benefit from more VRAM and that we will need more?

It wasn't that long ago, it's still Nvidia's current high-end, and they still currently refuse to allow 6 GB versions of the Tis and have only the sparsest few 6 GB plain 780s just now being available. 2013 was the year of both the 780s' releases and the consoles, people paid a lot of money for their 780 variants, and Nvidia are a major GPU manufacturer that had the greatest insight into where things were heading. I don't think they did or will have the longevity of our cards in mind... at least not in a manner that benefits us. It seems more like planned obsolescence to me.


----------



## Clocknut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> No, it isn't a rebrand. It's an entirely new architecture. Just look at the core configuration. Maxwell has a different SPU to TMU ratio than Kepler, for example. That can't be a rebrand.
> HA! Consoles. Let's just say that next-gen isn't. Alright, there are a couple things wrong with your VRAM claim:
> 1) The consoles are APUs, meaning the 8GB is split between system and video RAM
> 2) The OSes reserve quite a bit, around 2-2.5GB IIRC
> So you're left with 5.5-6GB total for games. That's 3GB system memory and 2.5-3GB video memory. Obviously it can be added or subtracted, but 4GB VRAM is the absolute max they'll be able to use.


U are missing the point dude. I even took that into account already. The consoles are rendering @ 720p @ 30fps. Games that ported to PC are often come with higher resolution textures, then most of us are running at 1080p & above, some even reach 4K + with all kinds of anti-aliasing(4xAA,8xAA )applied + 3D. If u add in all those, 4GB IS very insufficient, infact 8GB is the bare minimum. I will not be surprise we might end up needing 16GB to run everything maxed.


----------



## pterois

So is this their strategy until Pascal is released with it's stacked memory? Wouldn't be more appropriate to go for at least 6GB now with the 880 and probably 8GB with the 900 series later?


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocknut*
> 
> U are missing the point dude. I even took that into account already. The consoles are rendering @ 720p @ 30fps. Games that ported to PC are often come with higher resolution textures, then most of us are running at 1080p & above, some even reach 4K + with all kinds of anti-aliasing(4xAA,8xAA )applied + 3D. If u add in all those, 4GB IS very insufficient, infact 8GB is the bare minimum. I will not be surprise we might end up needing 16GB to run everything maxed.


Non sequitur. The consoles can't run 1080p @ 60FPS for a number of reasons, but VRAM capacity ain't one. First, you have the unified memory: slow 1333MHz DDR3 for the Xbone's VRAM and high latency GDDR5 system memory for the PS4. Second, you have a low-power architecture, Jaguar, running below 2GHz. If you want a desktop equivalent, take a 4770k or an FX-83## and downclock them to 2GHz. They're still faster. Third, devs still aren't using as many cores as they can/should, the only way these APUs can be reasonably powerful. There are a ton of reasons, but lack of VRAM isn't one.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serandur*
> 
> It wasn't that long ago, it's still Nvidia's current high-end, and they still currently refuse to allow 6 GB versions of the Tis and have only the sparsest few 6 GB plain 780s just now being available. 2013 was the year of both the 780s' releases and the consoles, people paid a lot of money for their 780 variants, and Nvidia are a major GPU manufacturer that had the greatest insight into where things were heading. I don't think they did or will have the longevity of our cards in mind... at least not in a manner that benefits us. It seems more like planned obsolescence to me.


My hypotheses is that they want people to buy Titan Blacks for VRAM. That's the only reason they have any appeal for a consumer. Double precision never gets used for those kinds of workloads.


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> My hypotheses is that they want people to buy Titan Blacks for VRAM. That's the only reason they have any appeal for a consumer. Double precision never gets used for those kinds of workloads.


I hate the Titan brand so very, very much.









I agree, but I suppose my real concern is whether there will be actual benefits to that extra VRAM and in which cases, however. It would be interesting to see some Titan vs 780 benchmarks in a few years with the latest games, but I'm having trouble tracking down recent 580 1.5GB vs 3 GB ones as is and don't have much hope anyone will actually inspect the differences several years down the road.


----------



## Silent Scone

As in above posts, if you want the extra VRAM you buy a Titan. The 8GB Vapor 290X is priced at around £600. That's a premium for a 290X...

Granted the Titan Black is more, however that's nothing new...Does make me laugh, Feb last year people were laughing at Titan owners saying 6GB was a ludicrous amount of memory...now they're still moaning it's too expensive because they need the memory.
















Nice one, internet.


----------



## szeged

Rofl saying we need 8 and 16gb model cards just to run games.

Looooooooooooooooooooooooooool


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serandur*
> 
> I agree, but I suppose my real concern is whether there will be actual benefits to that extra VRAM and in which cases, however. It would be interesting to see some Titan vs 780 benchmarks in a few years with the latest games, but I'm having trouble tracking down recent 580 1.5GB vs 3 GB ones as is and don't have much hope anyone will actually inspect the differences several years down the road.


Sigh... You want to start a review site with me and test low-end and outdated hardware? I have seriously considered this. It's incredibly annoying that we can't get 6970 or 580 benchmarks in modern games, and by modern I mean a year old. Nobody seems to test some pretty important aspects.


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Sigh... You want to start a review site with me and test low-end and outdated hardware? I have seriously considered this. It's incredibly annoying that we can't get 6970 or 580 benchmarks in modern games, and by modern I mean a year old. Nobody seems to test some pretty important aspects.


Honestly, if I even knew where to begin, I would. I find it interesting how the older stuff would hold up or what older trends mirroring modern ones actually resulted in. One of these days I'm going to get myself some used x1900s, 7800GTs, and an 8800GT just for the fun of seeing how they fare with newer stuff.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> Rofl saying we need 8 and 16gb model cards just to run games.
> 
> Looooooooooooooooooooooooooool


Said like a 780 owner









Just kidding, don't flame me.


----------



## caladbolg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serandur*
> 
> Honestly, if I even knew where to begin, I would. I find it interesting how the older stuff would hold up or what older trends mirroring modern ones actually resulted in. One of these days I'm going to get myself some used x1900s, 7800GTs, and an 8800GT just for the fun of seeing how they fare with newer stuff.


Judging by my laptop's GTX285m (which is between a 9800 GT and 9800 GTX, apparently), they don't fare, at all. It may be a massive CPU bottleneck because I'm running an i7-820QM (Nehalem, 1.73GHz base, 3.06GHz turbo @ 1 core), but I bought and booted Far Cry 3 yesterday and even at The game's "optimal" (read: everything on low) @ 1080p, the game just could not get a steady frame rate above 30 to save it's life. Thankfully, this tank of a laptop will finish active duty next week.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Said like a 780 owner
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just kidding, don't flame me.


Lol







even when I had titans runnon 3x 2560x1440 monitors 4gb would have been fine. Maybe 3 depending on the game


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caladbolg*
> 
> Judging by my laptop's GTX285m (which is between a 9800 GT and 9800 GTX, apparently), they don't fare, at all. It may be a massive CPU bottleneck because I'm running an i7-820QM (Nehalem, 1.73GHz base, 3.06GHz turbo @ 1 core), but I bought and booted Far Cry 3 yesterday and even at The game's "optimal" (read: everything on low) @ 1080p, the game just could not get a steady frame rate above 30 to save it's life. Thankfully, this tank of a laptop will finish active duty next week.


It may be cheating because of resolution, but I occasionally test stuff out on my laptop with a GT 540M (basically a desktop GT 430) and i7-2670QM (Sandy Bridge, 2.2 GHz base) and I got Far Cry 3 running at 1280x720, a mix of medium and high settings, and pretty consistently in the 30-35 FPS range. Power-wise, it shouldn't be anything above x1950 or 7900GTX level, but architecturally and CPU-wise, it's so different I wouldn't know what to expect of the actually older cards as opposed to today's weak cards.


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nickyvida*
> 
> Anything on a 28nm process node is a rebrand, no matter how you put it. We have been on 28nm for 3 years and its high time we moved to 20nm. The process is more than matured. It should be retired seeing how Nvidia has hit the wall with the gk 110


Maxwell is more efficient in FP32 compute, not just gaming. It also brings back barrel shifter.

Kepler GT 740 is a milking.

---

More on topic, I sure hope the big die GM100 / GM200 / GM210 has FP64 vastly better than 1/32 FP32.

Consumer GPUs are basically tiered by power
<75W , usually same die as mobile stuff (GTX 750 Ti / HD 7750)
<150W (6 pin) --- cards such as GTX 660 , R9 270
<225W (6+6 pin) --- cards such as GTX 670 , GTX 760, R9 280
<300W (6+8 pin) --- cards such as GTX 780 , R9 290


----------



## Stay Puft

A pair of GTX 870's please


----------



## jdstock76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> A pair of GTX 870's please


^this


----------



## dieanotherday

i only upgrade when the next mid-high range hard is 2x performance of the previous gen.

Hence the gtx 970 better be 2x gtx 770.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dieanotherday*
> 
> i only upgrade when the next mid-high range hard is 2x performance of the previous gen.
> 
> Hence the gtx 970 better be 2x gtx 770.


That's a weird rule. How do you know the 870 is close to 970?


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dieanotherday*
> 
> i only upgrade when the next mid-high range hard is 2x performance of the previous gen.
> 
> Hence the gtx 970 better be 2x gtx 770.


860/860 ti is "suppose" to be around the same performance of a 780ti, which is 2 760s pretty much. The 870 is probably going to be about ~20% more powerful than a 780ti which is around where 770 sli is.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serandur*
> 
> A substructure and memory bus that fully supports 6 GBs of VRAM, was debuted as 6 GBs of VRAM (the Titan), and was released as-is with no greater options as Nvidia historically allowed (3 GB 580, 4 GB 680), even with the latest release a mere half a year ago (780 Ti)? Is that an agreement that 780s absolutely could benefit from more VRAM and that we will need more?
> 
> It wasn't that long ago, it's still Nvidia's current high-end, and they still currently refuse to allow 6 GB versions of the Tis and have only the sparsest few 6 GB plain 780s just now being available. 2013 was the year of both the 780s' releases and the consoles, people paid a lot of money for their 780 variants, and Nvidia are a major GPU manufacturer that had the greatest insight into where things were heading. I don't think they did or will have the longevity of our cards in mind... at least not in a manner that benefits us. It seems more like planned obsolescence to me.


For those who need ~10-15% more performance than 780 6gb.. they can get titan black. Not the most agreeable decision, but understandable


----------



## NABBO

I upgrade to a video card that performs better than the 30-40% +

so ... probably update @ GTX880 SLI.


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> For those who need ~10-15% more performance than 780 6gb.. they can get titan black. Not the most agreeable decision, but understandable


The extra performance isn't much of a bother, but Nvidia did refuse 6 GB 780s for nearly the first year of the card's life and only a few have actually recently become in stock, at least where I'm from. I can understand the extra VRAM option not being the standard, but my problem is definitely with the Titans. The damn things didn't exist at all before 2013 and were Nvidia's excuse to deny 6 GB 780s for such a long time (and still to deny the 6 GB 780 Tis). $1000 is ridiculous for a single-GPU card when the highest options (even the extra VRAM versions) were historically available for no higher than the ~$600-700 range. Especially so considering the original Titan wasn't even the full GK110 chip. I suppose I really have a problem with the way Nvidia milked the GK110 and even tried passing off the GK104 as high-end initially, especially in comparison to AMD's efforts. The 880 and 980 are likely going to be a repeat of that with the Titan and everything.

Honestly, to be as blunt as possible, I think Nvidia went _way_ off the deep end with Kepler and I hope AMD humiliate them the moment they dare to make such a move as the Titan/GK110 milking again. That's not me being a fan boy or anything, I've historically gone with Nvidia for quite some time now, but the Titans/780s are such a cluster**** of mindbogglingly absurd gouging and pricing (the Titan Z is just unbelievable), in my opinion. A 780 Ti is a $650 card, it absolutely deserves the option to not have an anemic framebuffer for whatever its owners intend to do for the upcoming few years (especially in SLI) and if the current trends continue and my 780 doesn't have enough VRAM at any point in the next year or two to maintain the highest quality settings that it would otherwise be able to handle, I'm going with AMD and never looking back. In retrospect, the 7970 was absolutely far more well-matched with its framebuffer amount than the 680 and I'm expecting to see similar pressure on my 780 that the 290 doesn't have to deal with soon. All GK110 variants have monstrous Texel throughput, they absolutely can process such an amount of textures, especially in SLI, that 3 GBs just isn't completely sufficient for and for Nvidia's best of the best outside of some ridiculous, historically non-existent price range, it's just an insult to their customers, I feel. I don't feel it's understandable at all, I think the Titan is a shamefully overpriced abomination that should never be replicated.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> I suppose I really have a problem with the way Nvidia milked the GK110 and even tried passing off the GK104 as high-end initially


I blame both sides, they didn't need to bring gk110 to market to match the best performance there and there was no indication that they would ever have to before "next gen" They waited ages, then released titan, then had a massive performance lead (like 70% at OC) for a very long time


----------



## Silent Scone

They're both at it...to a degree. You think 290x is full fat?









One just knows they can charge more than the other.


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> I blame both sides, they didn't need to bring gk110 to market to match the best performance there and there was no indication that they would ever have to before "next gen" They waited ages, then released titan, then had a massive performance lead (like 70% at OC) for a very long time


True enough, the 7970 was the best AMD had for nearly two years for whatever reason (Fixation on a small die size? Troubles with the new GCN architecture? Poor management?) and it wasn't enough to get the proper reaction from Nvidia. I hope whatever difficulties AMD might have been facing at the time are long past and they've got a competing high-end architecture ready in a timely manner this time around.


----------



## cam51037

If the 880's are as efficient as the 750 Ti's I'll definitely be upgrading all my 750 Ti's to 880's.


----------



## Pendulum

The 900 series is scheduled for 2H 2015, which is awesome news for me since that's when I plan on doing a 4K build.
Work + college is taking up about 80 hours a week currently.


----------



## Mako0312

I just wonder what these prices will be. I only was looking to spend around $200-250.

If these new ones come out, and have awesome performance then I might up my budget a little bit. Welllll quite a bit.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mako0312*
> 
> I just wonder what these prices will be. I only was looking to spend around $200-250.
> 
> If these new ones come out, and have awesome performance then I might up my budget a little bit. Welllll quite a bit.


Well we don't know, but I would expect similar prices to the 600er series.


----------



## Mako0312

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Well we don't know, but I would expect similar prices to the 600er series.


I know we don't know. Just pondering prices, or just even how much the 700 series could drop from this lineup.

If my case release soon I might just say screw it, and stick with the 700 series.


----------



## NABBO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mako0312*
> 
> I just wonder what these prices will be. .


-imho-

GTX880 , 500€
GTX870 , 380 - 400€


----------



## flopticalcube

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mako0312*
> 
> I know we don't know. Just pondering prices, or just even how much the 700 series could drop from this lineup.
> 
> If my case release soon I might just say screw it, and stick with the 700 series.


I would think $200-$250 is 860/860ti territory. I wait to be proved pleasantly wrong.


----------



## Antistatic12

-imho-
The whole 780ti 6gb not happening fiasco got me thinking.
GTX870 = rebranded 780ti with 6GB and a 10% perf boost.
GTX880 = small Maxwell. probably 8gb.
That would give weight to the 28nm rumors. leave small maxwell on 28nm and big maxwell on 20nm.

Before you say something about the vram, Its all for marketing. general consumers (NOT OCN'ers) will probably lean toward something with a bigger number like 6GB as opposed to 4GB. Even though they don't fully understand what it means or does. That's business bro.









If I am right about the 870, thats good news. NV can't sell the 870 at the 780ti price, it would have to position it lower. So that would turn out to be the bang for buck card after a few months and a price drop or two.

GTX880 unlikely to be under $699. I would agree with that.


----------



## szeged

8gb to appease the people who scream and shout that games require 500gb of vram to play at 800x600 with all settings turned to ultra low.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> GTX870 = rebranded 780ti with 6GB and a 10% perf boost.


Boost performance how? There's nothing left on the chip to unlock and everybody who's overclocking already has whatever they can do with "stock overclocks"


----------



## szeged

the 770 is a 680 with a slight performance boost, they did it before theyll probably go for it again.


----------



## Antistatic12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> 8gb to appease the people who scream and shout that games require 500gb of vram to play at 800x600 with all settings turned to ultra low.


ahhaha you know it mate.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Boost performance how? There's nothing left on the chip to unlock and everybody who's overclocking already has whatever they can do with "stock overclocks"


well yes, there is that, I guess NV marketing team will really have to go on about how you need 6Gb vram then if they can't squeeze any more performance out of it, that will be funny.
I'm sure they can implement something to boost some performance on the card surely.


----------



## fateswarm

You can't make a small maxwell on 28nm that beats the 780 ti. You don't have to make a big 20nm maxwell. The flagship will be a medium 20nm maxwell the size of r9 290's.


----------



## StrongForce

Well even BF4 can use more than 3gb from what I understood with MSAAx4 ? not sure though..


----------



## Clocknut

Console developers are force to design the game around the console's spec which is...a machine with Low multi-core CPU + midrange GPU with a very high RAM/VRAM capacity. When they are going to run the game @ 720p 30fps, they are not going to leave those extra Ram sitting idle, they are going throw everything they can into the RAM/Vram to use it.

to build A gaming PC to capable to run most next gen console port, we have.
quad core CPU = more than enough vs the 8 core tablet CPU
GPU = a high end GPU is already almost twice as fast.
System ram = we have 8/16GB already

What is not enough is VRAM.

Xbox/PS4 is design to have at least 5yrs life cycle. Keep thinking that we dont need 8GB vram ever. *these people is probably also the same people who think 2GB is excessive 4 yrs ago.









I seriously hope the gtx880 is at least a 384bit/6GB, not another 3GB variant.


----------



## szeged

youre still going on about needing 8gb of vram rofl, 4k isnt even eating 3/4gb so there goes your argument seeing as 1080 is still the mainstream no matter how much nvidia and amd want it to be 4k.


----------



## Silent Scone

Might not need 8 but you definitely need more than 3...(4k)

So much fud on the internet based on not even a minutes experience

The 880 will have 8gb. The mobile chip does...


----------



## szeged

ive been playing @ 4k with 3gb for a while now. 3gb is fine if you arent using 8x msaa with 4k res, which you dont even need at that res, especially since high aa ends up making it look blurry anyways.


----------



## Clocknut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> youre still going on about needing 8gb of vram rofl, 4k isnt even eating 3/4gb so there goes your argument seeing as 1080 is still the mainstream no matter how much nvidia and amd want it to be 4k.


u sure that requirement is going to stay same for a couple of years from now?







I am not talking about now. I am talking about how the extra vram could help gtx880 in future.Assuming the performance gap between PS4 gpu vs gtx880, GTX880 could be another 8800GT/GTX(vs PS3)


----------



## Silent Scone

No, it's not.

Maybe if all you play is Civ 5 and some CounterStrike.

Ultra detail NO AA BF4...hitching

Tomb Raider max settings no AA...hitching

Crysis 3 max settings no AA...hitching...

All gone on my Titans and the games are free to utilise the bigger buffer and not sit at 2.95-3gb

3GB is not enough for 4k...


----------



## szeged

lol, 3gb is definitely enough, ive played almost every popular game since the beginning of 2013 to now on it with high settings and 2/4x AA with no problems. 3gb is enough for 4k. For now at least. Sure we could start seeing games that require at least 4gb for 4k but thats probably not going to happen in the next 4/5 months, and by then ill be sitting here with some 880 classifieds (hopefully)


----------



## Silent Scone

Well then there are two answers...

One,you are lowering detail or not playing the right games.

Two you're fine with games stuttering every so often...
Alternatively you could just be lying









I don't know what else to say to you... I couldn't put all the detail up in games I've been trying without resulting in hitching after a few minutes where the buffer was filling up. It's completely gone in everything on my Titans. I tried all three cards individually, changed the SLI bridge to the same end...
It was 100% VRAM limitation...

Not gonna quibble with you anymore lol


----------



## szeged

playing at maximum settings except AA, no stuttering.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocknut*
> 
> Console developers are force to design the game around the console's spec which is...a machine with Low multi-core CPU + midrange GPU with a very high RAM/VRAM capacity. When they are going to run the game @ 720p 30fps, they are not going to leave those extra Ram sitting idle, they are going throw everything they can into the RAM/Vram to use it.
> 
> to build A gaming PC to capable to run most next gen console port, we have.
> quad core CPU = more than enough vs the 8 core tablet CPU
> GPU = a high end GPU is already almost twice as fast.
> System ram = we have 8/16GB already
> 
> What is not enough is VRAM.
> 
> Xbox/PS4 is design to have at least 5yrs life cycle. Keep thinking that we dont need 8GB vram ever. *these people is probably also the same people who think 2GB is excessive 4 yrs ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I seriously hope the gtx880 is at least a 384bit/6GB, not another 3GB variant.


I totally agree that the GTX 880 has to be at least 384bit/6GB. Otherwise there will be many limitations especially for SLI setups.


----------



## nyk20z3

6GB's of vram is beyond overkill but now we need 8 lmao.


----------



## Bluemustang

You people keep whining over how you don't need more vram, cause you know, you'll never need more than 640k!!


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bluemustang*
> 
> You people keep whining over how you don't need more vram, cause you know, you'll never need more than 640k!!


Yawn, no one said we won't ever need more, but for now we sure don't even at 4k.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Yawn, no one said we won't ever need more, but for now we sure don't even at 4k.


Yes, you do...


----------



## Bluemustang

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Yawn, no one said we won't ever need more, *but for now* we sure don't even at 4k.


Thank you for precisely proving my point for me


----------



## nyk20z3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Yes, you do...


Please justify your claims because I would love to know what needs 6 gigs even at 4K since you have no need for AA at that point etc.


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Antistatic12*
> 
> -imho-
> The whole 780ti 6gb not happening fiasco got me thinking.
> GTX870 = rebranded 780ti with 6GB and a 10% perf boost.
> GTX880 = small Maxwell. probably 8gb.
> That would give weight to the 28nm rumors. leave small maxwell on 28nm and big maxwell on 20nm.
> 
> Before you say something about the vram, Its all for marketing. general consumers (NOT OCN'ers) will probably lean toward something with a bigger number like 6GB as opposed to 4GB. Even though they don't fully understand what it means or does. That's business bro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I am right about the 870, thats good news. NV can't sell the 870 at the 780ti price, it would have to position it lower. So that would turn out to be the bang for buck card after a few months and a price drop or two.
> 
> GTX880 unlikely to be under $699. I would agree with that.


the 870 will not be a 780ti rebrand unless it has 2048 Cuda cores. It'll probably be 2560 Cores, which would have the same performance as 34xx Cuda cores in a 780ti


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> Please justify your claims because I would love to know what needs 6 gigs even at 4K since you have no need for AA at that point etc.


I never said you needed 6gb exactly. However 3gb is NOT enough to max BF4 with no AA. Neither is it enough for Tomb Raider with FXAA or none.

Not all, but that's two *current* games that experience hitching where there is swap out occurring.

Metro Last Light on the other hand only uses 2 to 2.5gb and runs sublime on 780s.

So I do not buy people saying 3gb is enough anymore where 4k is concerned...it just isn't.


----------



## fateswarm

It's irrelevant if you need 4GB or not. Marketing is about perception. They can not market less than 4GB anymore hence the flagship will most likely be 512bit on 4GB with a potential "Titan" on 8.


----------



## nyk20z3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I never said you needed 6gb exactly. However 3gb is NOT enough to max BF4 with no AA. Neither is it enough for Tomb Raider with FXAA or none.
> 
> Not all, but that's two *current* games that experience hitching where there is swap out occurring.
> 
> Metro Last Light on the other hand only uses 2 to 2.5gb and runs sublime on 780s.
> 
> So I do not buy people saying 3gb is enough anymore where 4k is concerned...it just isn't.


Metro LL is the most demanding out of all those games but dosn't use more then 2.5 eh ?


----------



## NABBO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> 6GB's of vram is beyond overkill but now we need 8 lmao.


useful for surround 1440p, 1600p, 2160p (+ 4x Titan







)


----------



## NABBO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Well then there are two answers...
> 
> One,you are lowering detail or not playing the right games.
> 
> Two you're fine with games stuttering every so often...
> Alternatively you could just be lying
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what else to say to you... I couldn't put all the detail up in games I've been trying without resulting in hitching after a few minutes where the buffer was filling up. It's completely gone in everything on my Titans. I tried all three cards individually, changed the SLI bridge to the same end...
> It was 100% VRAM limitation...
> 
> Not gonna quibble with you anymore lol


you always blame the vram for stuttering and auto stop
but if a game has stuttering. depends on many factors.
I had titans with giant 6GB vram and

Bioshock infinite stuttering, stuttering Crysis 3, stuttering Tomb Raider (level Relics Shanty Town), etc. ..

You recently written that Wolfestein auto stop because of 3GB ....
but this game, auto stop even at 1280x720, so I doubt it's a problem of VRAM

My conclusion is that this game is optimized to suck


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I never said you needed 6gb exactly. However 3gb is NOT enough to max BF4 with no AA. Neither is it enough for Tomb Raider with FXAA or none.
> 
> Not all, but that's two *current* games that experience hitching where there is swap out occurring.
> 
> Metro Last Light on the other hand only uses 2 to 2.5gb and runs sublime on 780s.
> 
> So I do not buy people saying 3gb is enough anymore where 4k is concerned...it just isn't.


Hitching isn't only caused by lack of vram,







. I am running 4k and have no hitching issues in either of those games with 3gb vram. You might want to look into something else going on with your system or software setup.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bluemustang*
> 
> Thank you for precisely proving my point for me


I was agreeing







.

Anyway, fateswarm has it nailed. There is a false perception out that 4gb or more is needed, so from a marketing perspective they will probably have it, despite not actually being needed.

Can't wait for these new GPU's! The horsepower should be a treat.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Hitching isn't only caused by lack of vram,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I am running 4k and have no hitching issues in either of those games with 3gb vram. You might want to look into something else going on with your system or software setup.


/denial.

It's not enough! End of story...
I've just gone from Ti's on EXACTLY the same setup and changed nothing. That's over 3 different 780s, 3 different driver branches and even a format reinstall for separate purposes. Guess what cured it...more VRAM. You just don't want to hear the truth









Unless of course - all three of my Ti had some underlying issue and the Titan Black doesn't









lol.

It's subjective... some people are ok with lowering certain detail settings (anti-aliasing aside), I'm not.

Guess what also cured the hitching? Reducing detail settings. Still a problem with my machine? I'll look into that one, thanks.


----------



## hatlesschimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> Please justify your claims because I would love to know what needs 6 gigs even at 4K since you have no need for AA at that point etc.


AA is still needed. Just the minimum of 2x was the sweet spot for Visual vs Performance.

For example with no AA in ARMA 3 I was distracted in towns and near roads by power lines looking choppy. But with 2x it was all smoothed out and they were continuous. However with more than 2x the difference was not as noticeable and for me at my viewing distance of 5 feet from 65" 4k tv lol.


----------



## hatlesschimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocknut*
> 
> Console developers are force to design the game around the console's spec which is...a machine with Low multi-core CPU + midrange GPU with a very high RAM/VRAM capacity. When they are going to run the game @ 720p 30fps, they are not going to leave those extra Ram sitting idle, they are going throw everything they can into the RAM/Vram to use it.
> 
> to build A gaming PC to capable to run most next gen console port, we have.
> quad core CPU = more than enough vs the 8 core tablet CPU
> GPU = a high end GPU is already almost twice as fast.
> System ram = we have 8/16GB already
> 
> What is not enough is VRAM.
> 
> Xbox/PS4 is design to have at least 5yrs life cycle. Keep thinking that we dont need 8GB vram ever. *these people is probably also the same people who think 2GB is excessive 4 yrs ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I seriously hope the gtx880 is at least a 384bit/6GB, not another 3GB variant.


I wouldn't worry about the 384bit but the Vram could be 4GB for the base vanilla model. I hope not!!!!


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> /denial.
> 
> It's not enough! End of story...
> I've just gone from Ti's on EXACTLY the same setup and changed nothing. That's over 3 different 780s, 3 different driver branches and even a format reinstall for separate purposes. Guess what cured it...more VRAM. You just don't want to hear the truth
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless of course - all three of my Ti had some underlying issue and the Titan Black doesn't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol.
> 
> It's subjective... some people are ok with lowering certain detail settings (anti-aliasing aside), I'm not.
> 
> Guess what also cured the hitching? Reducing detail settings. Still a problem with my machine? I'll look into that one, thanks.


Totally agree! 3-4GB not enough especially for an SLI setup which should last you performance wise well into 2016 until Pascal is out. 6GB should be adequate for the GTX 880.


----------



## Bluemustang

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> I was agreeing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Anyway, fateswarm has it nailed. There is a false perception out that 4gb or more is needed, so from a marketing perspective they will probably have it, despite not actually being needed.
> 
> Can't wait for these new GPU's! The horsepower should be a treat.


Which is why we should have a good mount of vram. GPUs cant be made for whats sufficient NOW they need to be made for what may be needed in 2 maybe 3 years from now plus more for a buffer, so you dont have all this power then its wasted by lacking vram. Especially for SLI builds where you can have awesome power for even more time but its not always the best idea with increasing vram needs.


----------



## szeged

it should be, but the way nvidia sees it is if your card doesnt perform well in a year or so, youll have to buy one of their newer cards which = $$$$$ for them.


----------



## vlps5122

on the other spectrum of things people aren't discussing processing power of these next gen games. sure they will use mroe vram but they will need more pocessing power as well. witcher 3 runs at 35-45 fps maxed on 1080p with a titan black, good luck using those 6 gigs of vram at 4k when you will only have the processing power to maintain 20 fps with titan blacks in SLI lol.


----------



## Silent Scone

That's what SLi is for. Who in their right mind wants to bank on running a single card these days







.

Being serious, I think they were quoted as saying recently that's not going to represent the performance of the final product. Also, if it was truly max settings you might find they've done what they did with Witcher 2 and added the super sampling option. If that's the case 35-45FPS isn't too bad at all

As for 4K three or even two cards should be enough to maintain a steady frame rate with the absence of AA


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> That's what SLi is for. Who in their right mind wants to bank on running a single card these days
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Being serious, I think they were quoted as saying recently that's not going to represent the performance of the final product. Also, if it was truly max settings you might find they've done what they did with Witcher 2 and added the super sampling option. If that's the case 35-45FPS isn't too bad at all
> 
> As for 4K three or even two cards should be enough to maintain a steady frame rate with the absence of AA


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> /denial.
> 
> It's not enough! End of story...
> I've just gone from Ti's on EXACTLY the same setup and changed nothing. That's over 3 different 780s, 3 different driver branches and even a format reinstall for separate purposes. Guess what cured it...more VRAM. You just don't want to hear the truth
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless of course - all three of my Ti had some underlying issue and the Titan Black doesn't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol.
> 
> It's subjective... some people are ok with lowering certain detail settings (anti-aliasing aside), I'm not.
> 
> Guess what also cured the hitching? Reducing detail settings. Still a problem with my machine? I'll look into that one, thanks.


What a swell argument, /sarcasm. If you can afford a $500-750 4k display, just splurge for $3000 more, I mean who doesn't have that as pocket change right? For those of us who live in the real world, we won't have enough horsepower to saturate 3gb anyway and if we do we can survive with 99% of the visual quality instead of 100% in those extremely few cases f thousands that more cram would have let us keep said miniscule setting enabled.


----------



## fateswarm

Hm. Can I make a ramdisk out of useless vram?


----------



## hatlesschimp

I thought the povo pack would be the GTX 850/860. I used to buy that range all the time and ring its neck when I was an apprentice.

I guess it all depends where the GTX 880 will eventually sit in the hierarchy for the 8 series. Will there be another 8 series Titan later on? The GTX 680 had 2gb and 4gb variants. Maybe we will se 3gb and 6gb for the GTX 880.


----------



## fateswarm

Hrm. I could open an OpenGL context, translate data into some kind of bogus "asset" data and then have "VRAMdisk" that way. You heard it here first guys, breaking new ground.


----------



## pterois

If you purchase a GPU now that can effectively provide a peak performance for upcoming titles while at the same time being able to support a strong SLI setup in the future when both performance and VRAM requirements can become more demanding is a safer investment that can provide both future proof performance and the option to opt for higher resolution setups.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vlps5122*
> 
> titan blacks will be obsolete in 12 months, by then we'll be going through the 800 series and the 900 series, the 900 series probably be the first series meant for 4k gameplay


If the GTX 880 comes with an adequate memory buffer a dual SLI setup will offer peak performance until Pascal arrives.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Not sure where you got me trying to justify a purchase but you recently switched and sound like you're trying awfully hard to justify your new cards. By the time 99.99999999999 percent of people would run into vram issues with 3gb due to vram capacity rather than gpu horsepower, they'll be upgrading anyway. You are a niche case with a whopping handful of niche configuration samples to justify yourself. The bottom line is for virtually everyone, 3gb is plenty for the foreseeable future even at 4k, I. E. The next couple of years. And that's what I said all along. Thanks for proving my point for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


3gb isn't enough. Don't lose sleep over it.

3gb...hitching in select games...

6gb...no hitching in select games.

/rocket science

I've had reference Ti's on water since they launched...I planned very hard on keeping them till Christmas but wanted to gamble with 4k.

If it makes you feel better assuming I did it blindly and without much thought buying Titans you keep to your 'he's only a niche few' view point and trundle along till you're able to upgrade. I hope you've got more than one Ti for that monitor...if you own one that is.

Notice the trend that only people with Ti's tend to dispute it


----------



## NuclearPeace

According to a few users in OCN, the sky is falling. Apparently you need a 4790k and 6gb 780s just to play future titles.

Sounds an awful lot like kids on YouTube you say you need to spend $3000 on a gaming PC just to play on Low.


----------



## Chargeit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vlps5122*
> 
> titan blacks will be obsolete in 12 months, by then we'll be going through the 800 series and the 900 series, the 900 series probably be the first series meant for 4k gameplay


That's what I'm thinking also.


----------



## mcg75

In regards to Tomb Raider, what kind of "hitching" seems to be happening for some of you?

I'm playing it in 4K SLI with TressFX and AA off. Uses 1.6 to 1.7 GB of vram. The game plays just as smooth as it did at 1440p.

I've played it with AA on and AA off. I've found no change in visual fidelity.


----------



## fateswarm

NVIDIA does not care if it works this year or in 10 years or for weeks. They care if it sells now. That depends on what people think they need, regardless of if they need it, and what they will think they need based on benchmarks of the first month.


----------



## nleksan

Wow, seriously, grow up and act if not friendly than at least polite. This isn't Tom's Hardware, we have a strong reputation as a site because the majority of members are respectful to one another.

Calling people who have 780Ti's peasants? Really?
You have given nothing but anecdotes, which is NOT AT ALL proof or evidence, about how you had to chase your 3gig cards off with a shotgun so they didn'tmurder yyou in your sleep while your Titan Blacks now hold your hand and sing you lullabies every night, or whatever.

You are happy with your cards, that's a good thing, just as I am happy with my 780Ti Kingpins that run faster than theTitan Blacks iI've used.

What's unacceptable is the holier than though attitude, laughing at those who don't own a crystal ball as you apparently do, because it takes tremendous hubris to actively recommend something (especially very expensive somethings) because "it's better in the future", on all those countlessgames yyouhhave no clue as to the performance of because, well, they don't yet exist!

Lastly, many people including myself who have a fair amount of experience with myriad high end configurations, have been vocal about how the whole "NEED MOAR VRAM" FUD exists only in the minds of those who either simply want to believe it, or those who have a need to justify a frankly ridiculousppurchase (face it, pretty much the entire enthusiast segment consists of ridiculously priced everything). The very fewssituations I have seen where "Moar VRAM" was actually "needed", were situations in which the person concocted some kind of ridiculously overkill setup that is representative of only themselves.

People have finite funds, and regardless of the limit of each individual's, the way you keep a healthy amount of funds is by spending wisely, and scare tactics on a site as popular as this can very well result in people spending money they don't necessarilyhhave, because they listen to people who have zero consideration for how far reaching their words can be. Consider that, as I'm certain you have not before...


----------



## TheBlindDeafMute

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chargeit*
> 
> Some times we just like to have nice things.
> 
> My main system is a 4770k / 780. Really nice gaming rig.
> 
> I just put together a AMD build using some old parts, and some new. I put in a HD 5450 since the system is just going to used for surfing the web, opening wikis while on my main system, things like that... The HD 5450 did the trick... OF course I couldn't get past the idea of not having a good card in it. Two days after building the system, I was on Newegg ordering a R9 270x. Now I've got a system doing nothing but web browsing with a $180 GPU in it, in the same room as a system with a $520 GPU.
> 
> *It's called being an enthusiast. It doesn't have to make sense if you enjoy it and it makes you happy*.












Computers and cars, some people will never understand the money spent on them.


----------



## TheBlindDeafMute

Care:

1. Run cool at full load.
2. Less power consumption = more overclocking headroom amirite?
3. Dont charge more than $600 for the nice versions
4. Lots moar cuda and faster memory
5. Speaking of memory, lets *start at 4gb VRAM*

Dont care:

1. Bridgeless SLI? Meh, who cares
2. Less power, same overclocks
3. 2gb and 3gb models on 870 and higher. meh
4. $1300 titan version? Calling it now
5. $800 880gtx? Why?


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> 3gb isn't enough. Don't lose sleep over it.
> 
> 3gb...hitching in select games...
> 
> 6gb...no hitching in select games.
> 
> /rocket science
> 
> I've had reference Ti's on water since they launched...I planned very hard on keeping them till Christmas but wanted to gamble with 4k.
> 
> If it makes you feel better assuming I did it blindly and without much thought buying Titans you keep to your 'he's only a niche few' view point and trundle along till you're able to upgrade. I hope you've got more than one Ti for that monitor...if you own one that is.
> 
> Notice the trend that only people with Ti's tend to dispute it


Even at 1080 there are games that use up the 3GB so its not only for "niche" gamers.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> Wow, seriously, grow up and act if not friendly than at least polite. This isn't Tom's Hardware, we have a strong reputation as a site because the majority of members are respectful to one another.
> 
> Calling people who have 780Ti's peasants? Really?
> You have given nothing but anecdotes, which is NOT AT ALL proof or evidence, about how you had to chase your 3gig cards off with a shotgun so they didn'tmurder yyou in your sleep while your Titan Blacks now hold your hand and sing you lullabies every night, or whatever.
> 
> You are happy with your cards, that's a good thing, just as I am happy with my 780Ti Kingpins that run faster than theTitan Blacks iI've used.
> 
> What's unacceptable is the holier than though attitude, laughing at those who don't own a crystal ball as you apparently do, because it takes tremendous hubris to actively recommend something (especially very expensive somethings) because "it's better in the future", on all those countlessgames yyouhhave no clue as to the performance of because, well, they don't yet exist!
> 
> Lastly, many people including myself who have a fair amount of experience with myriad high end configurations, have been vocal about how the whole "NEED MOAR VRAM" FUD exists only in the minds of those who either simply want to believe it, or those who have a need to justify a frankly ridiculousppurchase (face it, pretty much the entire enthusiast segment consists of ridiculously priced everything). The very fewssituations I have seen where "Moar VRAM" was actually "needed", were situations in which the person concocted some kind of ridiculously overkill setup that is representative of only themselves.
> 
> People have finite funds, and regardless of the limit of each individual's, the way you keep a healthy amount of funds is by spending wisely, and scare tactics on a site as popular as this can very well result in people spending money they don't necessarilyhhave, because they listen to people who have zero consideration for how far reaching their words can be. Consider that, as I'm certain you have not before...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> In regards to Tomb Raider, what kind of "hitching" seems to be happening for some of you?
> 
> I'm playing it in 4K SLI with TressFX and AA off. Uses 1.6 to 1.7 GB of vram. The game plays just as smooth as it did at 1440p.
> 
> I've played it with AA on and AA off. I've found no change in visual fidelity.


I like how you picked up on that even though I wasn't the one who initially used the term 'here in the real world' and then also persisted to attack me as a stereotype for having expensive cards lol...

Thanks for your input though, although don't tell me how to talk. I'm glad you are happy with your Kingpins and they they are faster however that's not the reason for Blacks.

If I wanted three 3 3gb cards for 4K I would of stuck with reference. Especially as I could run 1250 24/7 on stock volts. There isn't much point in owning that many Kingpins.

So thank you for trying to take the higher ground however id rather just be more upfront with people who insist that it IS enough as it's in my opinion gross misinformation. I can only assume these people are happy with some of their games stuttering. What I was experiencing was 100% a VRAM problem. Some are obviously of the mindset that NV are putting 8GB on their mobile chips just for the hell of it.......

I'll be sure to come back next time with some videos and data to avoid the 780 owners club attacking me.

Maybe I'll start a thread "stuttering on my 780ti 4k setup but gone with Titans, help?"

Would probably invoke more truthful and realistic feedback from less particular members. I feel with the majority of people biting being Ti owners, we've established why these debates just go round in circles.

Oh yes, I went there


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBlindDeafMute*
> 
> Care:
> 
> 1. Run cool at full load.
> 2. Less power consumption = more overclocking headroom amirite?
> 3. Dont charge more than $600 for the nice versions
> 4. Lots moar cuda and faster memory
> 5. Speaking of memory, lets *start at 4gb VRAM*
> 
> Dont care:
> 
> 1. Bridgeless SLI? Meh, who cares
> 2. Less power, same overclocks
> 3. 2gb and 3gb models on 870 and higher. meh
> 4. $1300 titan version? Calling it now
> 5. $800 880gtx? Why?


1. at 4k was already have bridgeless SLI so I don't think it would be too much of a difference.
3. I would like 3gb's of the 870 because thats like going to be the sweet spot for 1440p gaming and some games are going to need it
4. If it has arm chips, it's worth more money than a titan is now :')
5. Omg No, AMD should destroy them... even with less power efficiency I'd buy AMD


----------



## mcg75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> So thank you for trying to take the higher ground however id rather just be more upfront with people who insist that it IS enough as it's in my opinion gross misinformation. I can only assume these people are happy with some of their games stuttering. What I was experiencing was 100% a VRAM problem. Some are obviously of the mindset that NV are putting 8GB on their mobile chips just for the hell of it.......
> 
> I'll be sure to come back next time with some videos and data to avoid the 780 owners club attacking me.
> 
> Maybe I'll start a thread "stuttering on my 780ti 4k setup but gone with Titans, help?"
> 
> Would probably invoke more truthful and realistic feedback from less particular members. I feel with the majority of people biting being Ti owners, we've established why these debates just go round in circles.


I can see why you can feel attacked to a point. But I just asked a question because I'm trying to understand.

You keep saying we're happy with our games stuttering. No, that's absurd because it would drive me crazy to the point where I'd be a two time Titan owner now.

The fact is this. I'm playing 4K at my settings using 1.5-2.0 GB of Vram. I can see stuttering happening if I was close to the Vram limit but I'm not.

Are you playing your games with a lot of AA or no AA?


----------



## Silent Scone

Sorry, it was only as he quoted you. That wasn't aimed at you so sorry for the misunderstanding.

I'm now a two time Titan owner so have been in a very similar position. Maybe I will try Tomb Raider again as there may have been FXAA there. If I recall from my testing though it definitely was no where near in the region of 1.7GB when everything was on Ultra (besides SSAA which was off) Although, FXAA is hardly a VRAM hog. In games such as AC4 FXAA helps massively even at 4K, as the image could still do with improvement in parts.

Battlefield 4, same end but with no AA this time. Ultra settings (besides MS etc)...Game will run fine for the first few minutes depending on what is going on. Once the match gets going and sparks are flying, the cache hovers over 2.9 to 3GB. The hitching will start when turning quickly, or when a grenade goes off etc. Sorry but to me, that is without question a VRAM limitation. It's text book. Lowering the detail to high resolves the issue, and I'm able to play.

Now if you're fine with doing that, then ok. However when you're talking about a high end counterpart like the 780Ti, I don't feel you should be having to lower detail. So for those that say "you'll run out of grunt waaay before you run out of memory". It's the biggest load of tosh I've ever read...

It _is_ subjective, I will agree. But it doesn't bode well with me when people are saying 3GB is fine for 4K as it simply isn't. It's very, very easy to run into trouble unless you're conservative with recent titles.

Admit, I have not tried a huge number of games...but for me that was enough to call it a day for my 780s. I'm sure I can't be the only one who feels that way.

I'm having absolutely no trouble with the Titans in this respect now, and games are free to cache the extra, in some instances 1GB into frame buffer, over what they were able to before.

It's simply a smoother experience the more memory there is... People seem to want to see fraps data as proof with low minimums and the usual numbers game...I guess in truth I'm struggling to find the enthusiasm if people are so quick to disregard it. Seems like history is repeating itself


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> I can see why you can feel attacked to a point. But I just asked a question because I'm trying to understand.
> 
> You keep saying we're happy with our games stuttering. No, that's absurd because it would drive me crazy to the point where I'd be a two time Titan owner now.
> 
> The fact is this. I'm playing 4K at my settings using 1.5-2.0 GB of Vram. I can see stuttering happening if I was close to the Vram limit but I'm not.
> 
> Are you playing your games with a lot of AA or no AA?


Tomb Raider without TressFX? It's a shame it adds so much to Lara's look. Given I played it at launch on a GTX 680 back then with TressFX on and there was stuttering. Not my point though...

Watch Dogs being the first major Cross-Gen title with some more demanding than usual requirements needs over 4GB to run Ultra textures properly even at 1080. While it can be argued that it is because of bad optimization and what not, fact is that Ubisoft claims that consoles use 3-4GB of unified memory for the game's graphics therefore any issues of the PC version are due to the lack of VRAM.
One way of remedying this is to say F.... Ubisoft and not care about their games. I personally look forward to some of their upcoming titles including Assassin's Creed Unity, Far Cry 4, The Division, Rainbow Six Siege and The Crew. Being that I am a huge AC fan I would hate to be required to use anything else but the very highest settings including Ultra textures because of any VRAM limitations. I don't care much for AA as I like my image to be sharp so I mostly use SMAA or temporal SMAA if available with the occasional 2xMSAA and rarely 4x. Could be possible as many developers have a focus on consoles that this could be a repeating occurrence.


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> They care if it sells now. That depends on what people think they need.


This sums it up....lol


----------



## Valor958

Maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time justifying upgrading from my 2500K and 7950. I'm fine at 1080p on a 24" monitor and can play anything I want on high/max. I consider myself an enthusiast as well, but dumping hundreds for marginal increases on avg resolution seems like a waste.
I think I'll wait to upgrade until I get a 50% boost in performance across the board for the things I'm already doing. So, maybe a mildly OC'd X99 system with a 2015 top-end gpu? I'm all for progress, but dumping $500 every year for a refresh or incremental hiccup... no thanks. I like being on good terms with my wife and treating my kids with my play money. :


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Valor958*
> 
> upgrading from my 2500K and 7950.


A 2600K and a 2nd GPU would be a great value for money.

If you need the boost/FPS.


----------



## Valor958

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> A 2600K and a 2nd GPU would be a great value for money.
> 
> If you need the boost/FPS.


Possibly, but if I can OC my 2500K a bit I get 2600K performance, and xfire just opens a whole new can of worms I'd rather not mess with. Seems wasteful for a single monitor setup at 1080p. I have high-end enthusiast interests on a modest setup. I'd put myself in the mid-range of everything since I'm like most gamers. I WANT a lot, but can only pay for a little at a time. X99 with new cpu and ram and my current 7950 will be 1st step Q1'15.


----------



## TopicClocker

Hmm, I think I'll wait for the Ti Ti Boost Black Edition Z.
Jokes aside, I wonder how much the 870 will debut for?


----------



## hatlesschimp

Im going to buy 2 or 3 of these GTX 880's but Im undecided what procesor is best for 4K.

4790K or 5960X

This is pure gaming pc.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Valor958*
> 
> Possibly, but if I can OC my 2500K a bit I get 2600K performance, and xfire just opens a whole new can of worms I'd rather not mess with. Seems wasteful for a single monitor setup at 1080p. I have high-end enthusiast interests on a modest setup. I'd put myself in the mid-range of everything since I'm like most gamers. I WANT a lot, but can only pay for a little at a time. X99 with new cpu and ram and my current 7950 will be 1st step Q1'15.


FWIW, the go-to solution at this moment appears to be the 290 (non-X). The price doesn't hurt and it has high end performance. Some models like the Tri-X even beat the stock Titan.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> Im going to buy 2 or 3 of these GTX 880's but Im undecided what procesor is best for 4K.
> 
> 4790K or 5960X
> 
> This is pure gaming pc.


If you're going Tri SLi a 5960X will be a far better solution to remove any CPU bottleneck. Hex core solutions available at the moment like SandyE and IvyE are much better with multi GPU setups than say Haswell is.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> If you're going Tri SLi a 5960X will be a far better solution to remove any CPU bottleneck. Hex core solutions available at the moment like SandyE and IvyE are much better with multi GPU setups than say Haswell is.


Is there something specific to core utilization that makes 6-core significantly better than 4-core specifically for multi-GPU setups? Most talk I've heard is about significant diminishing returns for gaming as you go to more cores/threads, is multi-GPU an exception to that?


----------



## hatlesschimp

I guess the only thing with the new X99 boards is they have a PLX chips that cause latency.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Is there something specific to core utilization that makes 6-core significantly better than 4-core specifically for multi-GPU setups? Most talk I've heard is about significant diminishing returns for gaming as you go to more cores/threads, is multi-GPU an exception to that?


In a word, yes. multi GPU setups are much better off on the x79 platform compared with other offerings. Not so much at higher resolutions but still there. There is a serious CPU bottleneck with three to four 780Tis at 1080/1440p, even on hex core cpus


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> I guess the only thing with the new X99 boards is they have a PLX chips that cause latency.


I was under the impression that X99 didn't need PLX chips, that it had more PCIe lanes from the CPU than something like Z97...


----------



## hatlesschimp

I read it somewhere that they will have a switch for the plx or some boards will automatically engage the plx chip when more than 1 GPU is installed.


----------



## kael13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Valor958*
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time justifying upgrading from my 2500K and 7950. I'm fine at 1080p on a 24" monitor and can play anything I want on high/max. I consider myself an enthusiast as well, but dumping hundreds for marginal increases on avg resolution seems like a waste.
> I think I'll wait to upgrade until I get a 50% boost in performance across the board for the things I'm already doing. So, maybe a mildly OC'd X99 system with a 2015 top-end gpu? I'm all for progress, but dumping $500 every year for a refresh or incremental hiccup... no thanks. I like being on good terms with my wife and treating my kids with my play money. :


What you need to upgrade then is your monitor. 1080p is old hat, my friend.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Is there something specific to core utilization that makes 6-core significantly better than 4-core specifically for multi-GPU setups? Most talk I've heard is about significant diminishing returns for gaming as you go to more cores/threads, is multi-GPU an exception to that?


The enthusiast platforms support more PCI-E lanes, thus you get more bandwidth for your GPUs when have multiple.

I was contemplating buying a second GTX 780 but when I found out that VRAM isn't shared in SLI I was a bit disappointed. For 3440x1440 I'm going to need a 6GB card in the near future.


----------



## thebski

For multi GPU setups and large resolutions (3K or above), I would recommend the X platforms over the Z platforms. The additional CPU cache and PCI lanes do make a difference. Depending on the games, the additional cores could too. In BF4 specifically, my 3930K at 4.8 Ghz was roughly 15% faster than my 3770K at 4.8 GHz with 780 Ti SLI at 5760x1080 (3k). I was actually pretty surprised at how big the difference was.


----------



## Valor958

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kael13*
> 
> What you need to upgrade then is your monitor. 1080p is old hat, my friend.


True, 1080p has been around a long time now, but at 24" there's plenty of resolution to be had. Now, if I bump up to a 28" next update, i'd definitely go 1440p at least. That or two 28", in which case I'd probably consider a gpu upgrade as well. I think after years of struggling for my family, I have a different view on dumping $300-600 per upgrade a few times a year. I can certainly appreciate all that's out there and will continue to live vicariously through you all







At least here I can learn all there is to know for when I do choose to make the leap to a new system. I'm on a 4 year upgrade cycle at the moment.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kael13*
> 
> The enthusiast platforms support more PCI-E lanes, thus you get more bandwidth for your GPUs when have multiple.


This I am aware of, but that doesn't have any impact on a CPU bottleneck that you would avoid by going to hexacore. Does anyone have a reason why six or eight core CPUs would perform preferentially better in a multi-GPU system as compared to four core?


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> This I am aware of, but that doesn't have any impact on a CPU bottleneck that you would avoid by going to hexacore. Does anyone have a reason why six or eight core CPUs would perform preferentially better in a multi-GPU system as compared to four core?


It's going to depend on the game. As I said above, the difference between my 3770K and 3930K was 15% in favor of the 3930K at 5760x1080 with 2x 780 Ti's for BF4 online. My guess why is because the 3930K has more cache, more PCI lanes, and can dedicate 4 full cores to BF4 while BF4 has to share it's 4 cores with Windows and any other background process on the 3770K.

That said, the returns are certainly diminishing. Returns are always going to be diminishing when you're talking the top end hardware. It completely depends on what your definition of "significantly" better performance is and how much you value money.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> This I am aware of, but that doesn't have any impact on a CPU bottleneck that you would avoid by going to hexacore. Does anyone have a reason why six or eight core CPUs would perform preferentially better in a multi-GPU system as compared to four core?


Because games are actually pretty well multi threaded now??


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Because games are actually pretty well multi threaded now??


They're getting to the point where they're starting to use four cores pretty well, but I haven't yet seen evidence that they're starting to properly utilize six or eight yet. Hence why I was asking if you had a more detailed source than "6 > 4 therefore better!"


----------



## Silent Scone

Check various bench threads and game bench threads. There aren't many Tri SLi users with less than 6 cores though unfortunately.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Check various bench threads and game bench threads. There aren't many Tri SLi users with less than 6 cores though unfortunately.


Which is why I'm asking if you had better information...

I guess not.


----------



## Silent Scone

What do you want? An insight into cpu architecture and multi threading in games?

Google.

I'm talking in three to four way SLi scenarios. There won't be a single card bottleneck on say a 780Ti by itself unless you're on something chronically ancient. Unless it's something like the glacier 2 engine which has a ridiculous cpu bottleneck.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Regarding slowdown on bf4 ultra that isn't vram during explosions causing it to slow down in fps, that's simply gpu processing. I can turn everything to minimum but effects ultra and get the same thing Scone, has nothing to do with vram. I stand by what I said, 3gb isn't limiting at 4k for single or even dual gpu setups at this time in 99.9999999999999% of use cases. From r anyone non 4k they're wasting their time even moreso chasing that vram dragon for now. By the time it is needed we'll be talking 980gtx and beyond







. Keep the dream alive..... And play the role of victim when you were attacking anyone who disagreed Mr. Silent Scone.


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> What do you want? An insight into cpu architecture and multi threading in games?
> 
> Google.
> 
> I'm talking in three to four way SLi scenarios. There won't be a single card bottleneck on say a 780Ti by itself unless you're on something chronically ancient. Unless it's something like the glacier 2 engine which has a ridiculous cpu bottleneck.


Edit: I'm stupid and misunderstood some things.


----------



## szeged

Adding more cores won't make a difference unless the game is heavily multithreaded, assuming you are using one gpu for testing said game.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Any data point is more useful than no data points. But it was just said so authoritative-sounding that X99 would be better at avoiding cpu bottlenecks than quad core, I was hoping there was more meat to it.


Of course it will be better at avoiding them. It doesn't mean they will always avoid them or they are going to be as much better at avoiding them as they are more expensive. But again, we're talking at the bleeding edge of consumer technology. Gains will always be marginal and no where near cost effective.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> Of course it will be better at avoiding them.


Are you sure? Much of what I hear says that the extra cores make almost no difference, and even are a hindrance if the chip can't match a lower-core-count chip at single-threaded performance. That's what I'm still trying to get at.


----------



## twerk

Cleaned of disrespectful posts. Keep it civil please.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Are you sure? Much of what I hear says that the extra cores make almost no difference, and *even are a hindrance if the chip can't match a lower-core-count chip at single-threaded performance.* That's what I'm still trying to get at.


Assuming you're comparing same architecture, the only thing that would cause this would be different results out of the silicone lottery. I'm not sure there's any real differences in the clockability of Ivy vs Ivy-E or Sandy vs Sandy-E. If there are differences, I'm betting the numbers are pretty small.

I can't really think of any scenario the Z platform would out perform the same architecture X platform. However, there are times when the X platform has no advantages over the Z platform which makes the X platform a giant waste of money. Whether or not it's worth it is just up to how much you value money and what you will do with the machine.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> silicone


Sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine.

Silicone is a polymer, it is used to make glue and fake boobs.

Silicon is a semiconductor, it is used to make computer things.


----------



## blackhole2013

If 880 can run games 1440p at ultra settings at 60 fps then maybe I will get it if not I will stick with my 780 and 1080p ..


----------



## AlphaC

https://www.zauba.com/import-gm204-hs-code.html or http://www.seair.co.in/gm204-import-data.aspx

18-Jun-2014 85437099 E2724-A01 GM204 NB 8GB GDDR5 POWER MEASU ADP FUNTIONAL TEST PCA BOARDS, 699-12724-0081-100 United States Banglore Air Cargo

60,878 INR --> $1010 USD

Below items Per Unit (INR) = 10,629 --- > $177

17-Jun-2014 84733010 GRAPHICS PROCESSOR INTEGRATED CIRCUITS, INT PART - 45414, GM204-INT41684-A1 United States Banglore Air Cargo
17-Jun-2014 84733010 GRAPHICS PROCESSOR INTEGRATED CIRCUITS, INT PART - 45413, GM204-INT41684-A1 United States Banglore Air Cargo
17-Jun-2014 84733010 GRAPHICS PROCESSOR INTEGRATED CIRCUITS, INT PART - 45415, GM204-INT41684-A1 United States Banglore Air Cargo
17-Jun-2014 84733010 GRAPHICS PROCESSOR INTEGRATED CIRCUITS, INT PART - 45412, GM204-INT41684-A1 United States Banglore Air Cargo

Other items
6-Jun-2014 84733099 PG401-A00 SKU0000 GM204 256BIT 128M COMPUTER GRAPHICS CARDS P NO.699-1G401-0000-000 United States Hyderabad Air Cargo NOS 1 34,034 34,034
3-Jun-2014 84733010 GRAPHICS PROCESSOR INTEGRATED CIRCUITS, GM204-INT0-A1 Taiwan Banglore Air Cargo NOS 15 153,830 10,255
3-Jun-2014 84733010 GRAPHICS PROCESSOR INTEGRATED CIRCUITS, GM204-INT0-A1 Taiwan Banglore Air Cargo NOS 2 20,511 10,256

Compare to
https://www.zauba.com/import-gm107-hs-code.html
$151ish GM107
7-Jun-2014 84733010 FOC/ GRAPHICS PROCESSOR INTEGRATED CIRCUITS, GM107-CS1-A2 Taiwan Banglore Air Cargo


----------



## StrongForce

We gonna see more multithreaded games in the near future thanks to those consoles..

And one thing is sure it's that the -E CPU's are good if you do encoding and that kind of stuff (I heard something about photoshop being mutlithreaded too not sure?) so if you're doing that alot, it surely justify spending 500 on a CPU


----------



## hatlesschimp

MMMM Interesting!!! Im hungry now!!!!


----------



## enyownz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> https://www.zauba.com/import-gm204-hs-code.html or http://www.seair.co.in/gm204-import-data.aspx
> 
> 18-Jun-2014 85437099 E2724-A01 GM204 NB 8GB GDDR5 POWER MEASU ADP FUNTIONAL TEST PCA BOARDS, 699-12724-0081-100 United States Banglore Air Cargo
> 
> 60,878 INR --> $1010 USD
> 
> Below items Per Unit (INR) = 10,629 --- > $177
> 
> 17-Jun-2014 84733010 GRAPHICS PROCESSOR INTEGRATED CIRCUITS, INT PART - 45414, GM204-INT41684-A1 United States Banglore Air Cargo
> 17-Jun-2014 84733010 GRAPHICS PROCESSOR INTEGRATED CIRCUITS, INT PART - 45413, GM204-INT41684-A1 United States Banglore Air Cargo
> 17-Jun-2014 84733010 GRAPHICS PROCESSOR INTEGRATED CIRCUITS, INT PART - 45415, GM204-INT41684-A1 United States Banglore Air Cargo
> 17-Jun-2014 84733010 GRAPHICS PROCESSOR INTEGRATED CIRCUITS, INT PART - 45412, GM204-INT41684-A1 United States Banglore Air Cargo
> 
> Other items
> 6-Jun-2014 84733099 PG401-A00 SKU0000 GM204 256BIT 128M COMPUTER GRAPHICS CARDS P NO.699-1G401-0000-000 United States Hyderabad Air Cargo NOS 1 34,034 34,034
> 3-Jun-2014 84733010 GRAPHICS PROCESSOR INTEGRATED CIRCUITS, GM204-INT0-A1 Taiwan Banglore Air Cargo NOS 15 153,830 10,255
> 3-Jun-2014 84733010 GRAPHICS PROCESSOR INTEGRATED CIRCUITS, GM204-INT0-A1 Taiwan Banglore Air Cargo NOS 2 20,511 10,256
> 
> Compare to
> https://www.zauba.com/import-gm107-hs-code.html
> $151ish GM107
> 7-Jun-2014 84733010 FOC/ GRAPHICS PROCESSOR INTEGRATED CIRCUITS, GM107-CS1-A2 Taiwan Banglore Air Cargo


WHAT DOES THIS ALL MEAN? SOMEONE, QUICK! FIND JA RULE! WE NEED JA TO MAKE SENSE OF ALL THIS.


----------



## hatlesschimp

To me it looks like 880's destined to be tested and eventually sent out to be reviewed.


----------



## enyownz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> To me it looks like 880's destined to be tested and eventually sent out to be reviewed.


Thanks Ja


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> If you're going Tri SLi a 5960X will be a far better solution to remove any CPU bottleneck. Hex core solutions available at the moment like SandyE and IvyE are much better with multi GPU setups than say Haswell is.


5960x is a 8 core


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> MMMM Interesting!!! Im hungry now!!!!


Qty: 1,249

That's a lot of sauce...it must be a "WOOHOO OUR GRAPHICS CARDS ARE DONE, TIME FOR COMPANY BBQ!!!!" indicator.

You heard it here first.


----------



## fateswarm

That database is so leaky that you can't believe it. I still think there might be a random generator behind it playing trolls with us.


----------



## zealord

I genuinely hope that in one way or another the 800 series is going to suprise us positively with something we don't anticipate.


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> To me it looks like 880's destined to be tested and eventually sent out to be reviewed.


So it might eventually mean that it might be out sooner than expected ?


----------



## TheBlindDeafMute

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> We gonna see more multithreaded games in the near future thanks to those consoles..
> 
> And one thing is sure it's that the -E CPU's are good if you do encoding and that kind of stuff (I heard something about photoshop being mutlithreaded too not sure?) so if you're doing that alot, it surely justify spending 500 on a CPU


The one thing I've noticed, it doesn't make a huge difference unless you are running these programs on an ssd. Even on an enthusiast cpu, I don't see the real world gains in applications like ps, ai and the like. My 2700k did just add good as the ivy e. (perhaps not sure scientifically, I'm saying I didn't notice any drastic gain) Now, when I switched to a disk less drive, it was like night and day.


----------



## BeastRider

Coming from SLI 680s, can't wait for SLI 880s once they come out.







I just hope they don't suddenly release an 880 Ti the day after I get an 880, that would just suck. Maybe I should wait for 880 Tis then.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deletive*
> 
> 5960x is a 8 core


Yes , I know .

As for the database, I don't think the big guns will be here till maybe March time

Lol @ BBQ sauce.


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBlindDeafMute*
> 
> The one thing I've noticed, it doesn't make a huge difference unless you are running these programs on an ssd. Even on an enthusiast cpu, I don't see the real world gains in applications like ps, ai and the like. My 2700k did just add good as the ivy e. (perhaps not sure scientifically, I'm saying I didn't notice any drastic gain) Now, when I switched to a disk less drive, it was like night and day.


what you mean AI ?

the difference might not be that big for PS, but say encoding, the benchmarks shows quite a bit of gains for sure









By the way..I might get a r9 280x on ebay tomorow if it doesn't go too high.. I just hope the maxwells won't be release too soon if I do that or I'm gonna feel pretty stupid


----------



## XxOsurfer3xX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> what you mean AI ?
> 
> the difference might not be that big for PS, but say encoding, the benchmarks shows quite a bit of gains for sure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way..I might get a r9 280x on ebay tomorow if it doesn't go too high.. I just hope the maxwells won't be release too soon if I do that or I'm gonna feel pretty stupid


I would not buy a gfx card now, maxwell or 295 according to rumors cannot be too far off. Even if you want a 280X wait for the price drop...


----------



## BakerMan1971

price drops are already happening, I saw a Sapphire Tri-X r9 290 for £269 $458? on offer last week, thats £70 (about $120) less than I paid in March for my MSI r9 290 twin frozr.

something new is incoming soon because current cards are being reduced, even the MSI GTX 780 TF is down to £339 $577

of course these are UK prices, but they are down a fair bit


----------



## hatlesschimp

Wait till October for gtx 880 and then when its a week from release it will be wait for 880ti and then wait for Titan 2 lol. If you have no hdmi 2.0 or dp1.3 ambitions then just buy now and play that card/s brother. Live in the moment and enjoy.


----------



## Silent Scone

^ This.

You'd spend forever waiting...was desperately waiting for the new batch of cards with my Ti's but couldn't stomach it...for reasons I won't go into again as it might spark more upset


----------



## BakerMan1971

^^ I agree with these guys
The way I see it, if the card you currently have is holding you back in any way from doing what you want to do, (even if it is benchmarking not just gaming







) Then go for it, grab the best deal you can , the best card you can and enjoy it for the years of pleasure it will give you.

Upper mid/High end cards need upgrading much less too, as they are usually very well specced and hold their own for longer, than their more budget oriented cards can. IMHO.


----------



## hatlesschimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BakerMan1971*
> 
> ^^ I agree with these guys
> The way I see it, if the card you currently have is holding you back in any way from doing what you want to do, (even if it is benchmarking not just gaming
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) Then go for it, grab the best deal you can , the best card you can and enjoy it for the years of pleasure it will give you.
> 
> *Upper mid/High end cards need upgrading much less too*, as they are usually very well specced and hold their own for longer, than their more budget oriented cards can. IMHO.


On the contrary *Once you buy that HIGH END Gpu you never go back!!!*

Experiencing that blistering performance and knowing that feeling makes it hard not to think of upgrading when the new rumor and news articles come out. I used to play games with 3rd tier cards and ring their necks for years and then buy a new one and do it all again lol. My first High end gpu was the 680 then I added a second for sli and i was so happy and I promised I would not buy again till the 8 series. So some time has passed since then and I've owned 3x titans, 3x 290x and a Alienware 17 laptop with a 780m (660 equivalent probably lol) and now I am eagerly awaiting the 8 series however I am going to buy 3 straight off the bat and water cool them that way they are installed and less likely to pull them out and quiet!!!


----------



## Silent Scone

Ignorance is bliss for your wallet lol.

I'd love to go back to the mindset of some folks "What do you need that card for anyway ? :S"


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> On the contrary *Once you buy that HIGH END Gpu you never go back!!!*
> 
> Experiencing that blistering performance and knowing that feeling makes it hard not to think of upgrading when the new rumor and news articles come out.


Nah, that's just good ol' narcissism.


----------



## BakerMan1971

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> On the contrary *Once you buy that HIGH END Gpu you never go back!!!*
> 
> Experiencing that blistering performance and knowing that feeling makes it hard not to think of upgrading when the new rumor and news articles come out. I used to play games with 3rd tier cards and ring their necks for years and then buy a new one and do it all again lol. My first High end gpu was the 680 then I added a second for sli and i was so happy and I promised I would not buy again till the 8 series. So some time has passed since then and I've owned 3x titans, 3x 290x and a Alienware 17 laptop with a 780m (660 equivalent probably lol) and now I am eagerly awaiting the 8 series however I am going to buy 3 straight off the bat and water cool them that way they are installed and less likely to pull them out and quiet!!!


ah but that's the enthusiast in you







I know that feeling , but being a family man have had to over the years restrict my budget for my hobby.

I went through 3 stages of GPU purchase, back in the mid-late 90's I bought the best cheapest bang for buck cards possible, due to very limited budget.
I found myself needing to upgrade every 6 months.
Then tried just pushing a little extra cash info an around mid-range card Geforce 6600 it was, and that did 18 months, and was about double the previous card so I already saved the price of a cheap card.
did a few mid cards that lasted up to 2 years each.
Then blew a bit more on a GTX570, back in early 2011, and didn't upgrade that until my current r9 290 in March this year. So got around 3 years out of that card, and to be fair it is still good enough to play current games on mid-high settings.

So yeah with a big budget for my hobby I would no doubt give in to the temptation to experiment with different and new cards, but I reckon this one will do at least 2 years (kids left home have a little more money) but if the budget stays, I won't cry if I have to keep it until 2017.


----------



## hatlesschimp

LOL

Its an amazing feeling to buying your first high end card. Setting the settings to ultra and playing at full resolution at max settings and getting decent frame rates is unbelievable. I started with a IBM 486 and dos and then saw windows 95 come along then the first of my graphics cards had 2mb ram and during my high school / apprenticeship years I had 16mb to 256mb ram cards and now we have 6gb titans LOL. Another funny thing is i dont get to play games like I used too and the sessions have gotten a lot smaller. Damn getting old and have responsibilities!!!


----------



## Silent Scone

I remember upgrading my P75 to 12MB RAM for Quake









Even Quake 2 I played with Software rendering IIRC.

How things have progressed


----------



## zealord

the worst thing about buying high end GPUs is that you don't get that excited for a new generation. I can only imagine how it feels like with a 780 Ti Kingpin clocked high. The 880 is probably better than a 780 Ti Kingpin, but the question is if it is really worth it upgrading then.

If the 870 releases as a reasonable priced card with good performance and overclockability then I will take one as an intermediate card until I buy my next rig.


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> the worst thing about buying high end GPUs is that you don't get that excited for a new generation. I can only imagine how it feels like with a 780 Ti Kingpin clocked high. The 880 is probably better than a 780 Ti Kingpin, but the question is if it is really worth it upgrading then.
> 
> If the 870 releases as a reasonable priced card with good performance and overclockability then I will take one as an intermediate card until I buy my next rig.


The worst things about buying high-end GPUs with 250W+ TDP:
resell value = crap (try selling a GTX TITAN or GTX 680 for even 80% of its value)
hotter/louder
more power use
larger case required (i./e. longer and/or wider card)
absymal in summertime

The high end GPUs really are "halo" products. Otherwise, Nvidia wouldn't be able to sell garbage like GT 730 / GT 740 rebrands
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> That database is so leaky that you can't believe it. I still think there might be a random generator behind it playing trolls with us.


It's import/export data.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> It's import/export data.


I know, I exposed it to this forum.


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> Wait till October for gtx 880 and then when its a week from release it will be wait for 880ti and then wait for Titan 2 lol. If you have no hdmi 2.0 or dp1.3 ambitions then just buy now and play that card/s brother. Live in the moment and enjoy.


But there is quite a difference of price between those though at least if you compare to 700 series, like a Ti is already nearly overkill for 1080p but it's cool if you got money to speend and just like a OP gpu also, it's just not quite savy if you're tight on budget lol, personally a GTX 880 OC would do me good.. XD


----------



## BeastRider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> But there is quite a difference of price between those though at least if you compare to 700 series, like a Ti is already nearly overkill for 1080p but it's cool if you got money to speend and just like a OP gpu also, it's just not quite savy if you're tight on budget lol, personally a GTX 880 OC would do me good.. XD


It's a great feeling getting the top of the line card sometimes even if reviews say it's not worth it (ea GTX670 vs GTX680). Just the feeling of knowing you got the top card is just indescribable. For me though, since I did get the top card, I will only upgrade to another top card but a few generations away. My target is the GTX 880 but since they made a 780 Ti, it's a safe bet that they might make an 880 Ti. I'm hoping for at least 70% performance increase with 880 Ti vs my current 680. I might get 2 880 Ti's right away depending on my budget since I'm using 2 680s now. 1 card cash, other card using credit card lol.


----------



## Silent Scone

It's impossible to know with NVIDIA. They might well do the same as they did with 680> all over again but depends what else is in the pipeline. With 20nm manufacture starting this quarter there will undoubtably be something big. I still don't think we will see anything top end till end of Q1 2015.


----------



## fateswarm

It might be earlier than people think since 20nm might be short lived. A medium-sized chip only for a flagship and a crippled-flagship. It might be short lived because 16nm is supposed to be a straight forward update with little cost over 20nm for TSMC.

Then again, this isn't the time to give away shrinks just like that. It may drag. And 16nm's appearance may drag.


----------



## thebski

We don't expect full Maxwell until the 900's, correct?

There's no reason to believe they would do anything other than gradually release the architecture to maximize milking akin to the Kepler generation. That is, unless AMD forces their hand. That would be sweet, but not something I'm going to hold my breath over.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> We don't expect full Maxwell until the 900's, correct?
> 
> There's no reason to believe they would do anything other than gradually release the architecture to maximize milking akin to the Kepler generation. That is, unless AMD forces their hand. That would be sweet, but not something I'm going to hold my breath over.


AMD will release the full Hawaii chip soon the 295X (or 290XT) which will most likely beat the 780Ti and the Titan Black. The GTX 880 will probably be more powerful, so before AMD releases the 390 (late 2015-early 2016) there's no forcing Nvidia to launch the 900 series. According to Nvidia's roadmap Pascal is releasing around the end of 2016 which is about right for the 900s. So there could be a full Maxwell - GTX 880Ti or similar before that. There could also be the Titan variants of course.


----------



## Kosai

Any word on premium elite variants of the high end Maxwell's? Such as a 880 Ti Lightning, 880 Ti Kingpin, etc.

I for one will embrace a 880 Ti KingPing edition if and when available. After a long dedicated loyalty to AMD I will be making the switch, I've had enough with AMD and their broken promises.


----------



## szeged

There will most likely be 880 lightning s and classifieds.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kosai*
> 
> Any word on premium elite variants of the high end Maxwell's? Such as a 880 Ti Lightning, 880 Ti Kingpin, etc.
> 
> I for one will embrace a 880 Ti KingPing edition if and when available. After a long dedicated loyalty to AMD I will be making the switch, I've had enough with AMD and their broken promises.


Probably too soon to learn about non reference editions. Although I do hope that there are some different options at launch.


----------



## szeged

Dcu2 will probably come at launch or right after the same month like always.


----------



## fateswarm

Those are a given.


----------



## Silent Scone

Way too soon for talk about any limited editions. Who knows NV might be listening to enthusiasts this time, and we might get PCBs that overclock well. Can dream...

I still think EVGA have a say in some of it....if you catch my drift.


----------



## Kosai

I'm particularly interested in seeing a high end "gold chip" Maxwell variant equivalent to the 780 Ti Kingpin. A Maxwell that can overclock the most out of the rest of the 880 batch and just have killer performance overall in gaming. I would be more than willing to save and pay for what they are asking for if it's around the same price tag as the 780 ti Kingpin.


----------



## kingduqc

I was wondering if getting maxwell is actually a good time to upgrade. 3d vram memory will triple the bandwith in a year or two. More then a marginal 15 20% a 880 would offet over a 780ti


----------



## PyroTechNiK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BakerMan1971*
> 
> ^^ I agree with these guys
> The way I see it, if the card you currently have is holding you back in any way from doing what you want to do, (even if it is benchmarking not just gaming
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) Then go for it, grab the best deal you can , the best card you can and enjoy it for the years of pleasure it will give you.
> 
> Upper mid/High end cards need upgrading much less too, as they are usually very well specced and hold their own for longer, than their more budget oriented cards can. IMHO.


I was using a GTX470 for close to 4 years. It was definitely holding me back in a lot of games so I recently upgraded to a 770. Very happy with the purchase.


----------



## Mand12

It is a good time to upgrade. Whether there is ever a "best" time to upgrade seems impossible to answer. In this case, Maxwell, DC, Has-E, DDR4, and G-Sync all seem to be lining up relatively close together. As someone with a four and a half year old rig, I am definitely planning to upgrade.

Will there be awesome things in a year or two? No doubt. But if you're always waiting for that awesome thing a year or two away, you'll end up with a decade-old rig before you know it.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pterois*
> 
> AMD will release the full Hawaii chip soon the 295X (or 290XT) which will most likely beat the 780Ti and the Titan Black. The GTX 880 will probably be more powerful, so before AMD releases the 390 (late 2015-early 2016) there's no forcing Nvidia to launch the 900 series. According to Nvidia's roadmap Pascal is releasing around the end of 2016 which is about right for the 900s. So there could be a full Maxwell - GTX 880Ti or similar before that. There could also be the Titan variants of course.


I guess what I'm saying is we won't be seeing real Maxwell until the 900's, just like we didn't see real Kepler until the 700's. I expect the 800's to be the mid-range Maxwell cards and the 900's to be high-end Maxwell cards. AMD is just now bringing out 295X that will best the 780 Ti, so I'm assuming there's no reason nVidia would have to drop big Maxwell until the 900's sometime in late 2015, as AMD isn't likely to push them any time soon unless they have something up their sleeve.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I guess what I'm saying is we won't be seeing real Maxwell until the 900's, just like we didn't see real Kepler until the 700's. I expect the 800's to be the mid-range Maxwell cards and the 900's to be high-end Maxwell cards. AMD is just now bringing out 295X that will best the 780 Ti, so I'm assuming there's no reason nVidia would have to drop big Maxwell until the 900's sometime in late 2015, as AMD isn't likely to push them any time soon unless they have something up their sleeve.


There will likely be a 20nm big maxwell around late 2015-early 2016 but it might not be the 900 series. Then again it could be...


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pterois*
> 
> There will likely be a 20nm big maxwell around late 2015-early 2016 but it might not be the 900 series. Then again it could be...


I think it's really all up to what AMD does. We likely never would have even seen full Kepler had AMD not released the 290X. That forced the 780 Ti and the 780 Ti forced a Titan refresh. Otherwise we still may not have seen full GK110 to this point in time for a consumer card. I hope we eventually see full 20 nm Maxwell, GM200 or whatever they're calling it this time.

I will likely only upgrade my 780 Ti when full Maxwell is available. If it's anything like past generations that would be roughly double the performance in a single 250W card. That would be pretty awesome.


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> It is a good time to upgrade. Whether there is ever a "best" time to upgrade seems impossible to answer. In this case, Maxwell, DC, Has-E, DDR4, and G-Sync all seem to be lining up relatively close together. As someone with a four and a half year old rig, I am definitely planning to upgrade.
> 
> Will there be awesome things in a year or two? No doubt. But if you're always waiting for that awesome thing a year or two away, you'll end up with a decade-old rig before you know it.


Exactly where I am, except my current system is older than 4.5 years... the i7-920 has lasted really well, but it's time.


----------



## ahnafakeef

If I remember correctly, there were Tesla GK110 cards already released some time before the GeForce GK110 cards were released, which is how we got an idea of the number of CUDA cores to expect in the 700 series flagship.

Do we know the number of CUDA cores the Tesla counterparts of the tentative 880/880Ti have?


----------



## fateswarm

Any high end cpu or gpu you get now will not be slow next year. That's a given. The transistor is just harder to be shrinked nowadays and algorithmic advances aren't everything.

There seems to a be a fluke with gpus since the dies of the latest gpus are bigger but that's not that much different, the small ones were just nerfed.

When they go 20nm they won't be able to demolish the GK110 or 290, only surpass it by a little. They can't afford it anyway, they need chips for later.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I think it's really all up to what AMD does. We likely never would have even seen full Kepler had AMD not released the 290X. That forced the 780 Ti and the 780 Ti forced a Titan refresh. Otherwise we still may not have seen full GK110 to this point in time for a consumer card. I hope we eventually see full 20 nm Maxwell, GM200 or whatever they're calling it this time.
> 
> I will likely only upgrade my 780 Ti when full Maxwell is available. If it's anything like past generations that would be roughly double the performance in a single 250W card. That would be pretty awesome.


I'm in the same position but for me the 780 Ti isn't enough. I wanted to do SLI for some time but waiting for the 880 hoping that it will have more VRAM something that will benefit an SLI setup and drive higher resolutions.


----------



## szeged

Maxwell better clock to the moon and back because my new kingpin is doing 1400+ on air with low volts so far lol, gonna be hard to replace it for gaming. I'll still get a 880 for benching though.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pterois*
> 
> I'm in the same position but for me the 780 Ti isn't enough. I wanted to do SLI for some time but waiting for the 880 hoping that it will have more VRAM something that will benefit an SLI setup and drive higher resolutions.


I just got rid of SLI actually. I was running 5760x1080 but am going to have less time to game so have sold some stuff off and will only be running 1080P. One 780 Ti is more than enough for that. What res you planning on driving?


----------



## carlhil2

980ti or bust....


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I just got rid of SLI actually. I was running 5760x1080 but am going to have less time to game so have sold some stuff off and will only be running 1080P. One 780 Ti is more than enough for that. What res you planning on driving?


Planning on getting a 55-inch 4K TV with HDMI 2.0 so I'm hoping that the GTX 880 supports that. More VRAM would be nice too. Even on the 1080 display I use downsampling @ 3200x1800.


----------



## doomlord52

Hopefully it'll support some serious down-sampling. I'd love to be able to run 2880x1620 at 144hz, but unfortunately, not even an R9 290x (or x2) has a high enough fillrate. As is, my GTX 570's can barely handle [email protected] Realistically, I'd like a card with ~70gp/s.


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> If I remember correctly, there were Tesla GK110 cards already released some time before the GeForce GK110 cards were released, which is how we got an idea of the number of CUDA cores to expect in the 700 series flagship.
> 
> Do we know the number of CUDA cores the Tesla counterparts of the tentative 880/880Ti have?


2560 Cores and 3200. Speaking of tesla

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8195/isc-2014-nvidia-tesla-cards-add-arm64-host-compatibility Titan 2 with Arm processors is looking more and more predictable.


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deletive*
> 
> 2560 Cores and 3200. Speaking of tesla
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/8195/isc-2014-nvidia-tesla-cards-add-arm64-host-compatibility Titan 2 with Arm processors is now I think confirmed


Its a rack with arm cores...


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Its a rack with arm cores...


yeah I editing it afterwards, but, maxwell was rumored to have arm cores. now I can see Nvidia, making just a tesla with Arm chips built in the ultimate powerhouse


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deletive*
> 
> 2560 Cores and 3200. Speaking of tesla
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/8195/isc-2014-nvidia-tesla-cards-add-arm64-host-compatibility Titan 2 with Arm processors is looking more and more predictable.


I have the following questions, if you don't mind.

i) We already have cards with 2880 cores. Why would a next gen card have 2560 cores? Wouldn't that mean lower performance if performance is determined primarily by the number of CUDA cores? If not, what am I missing?

ii) In the article, are they talking about adding ARM64 Host Compatibility to the upcoming Tesla cards that the GeForce 800 series will be based on? If yes, would it mean that the GeForce cards would have it too? If yes, how exactly would its addition affect the performance of the upcoming GeForce cards in games?

Thank you.


----------



## leafonthewind

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pterois*
> 
> Planning on getting a 55-inch 4K TV with HDMI 2.0 so I'm hoping that the GTX 880 supports that. More VRAM would be nice too. Even on the 1080 display I use downsampling @ 3200x1800.


I would avoid the really cheap 4k TVs (like the Seiki models) as the dirt cheap chinese ones have very poor QC and really poor color reproduction.


----------



## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> i) We already have cards with 2880 cores. Why would a next gen card have 2560 cores? Wouldn't that mean lower performance if performance is determined primarily by the number of CUDA cores? If not, what am I missing?


Each architecture is different. So each individual core on Fermi, Kepler, or Maxwell GPUs might give different performance, sometimes less per core, sometimes more.

Maybe other members can elaborate because I'm not knowledgeable in this technical stuff.


----------



## IvantheDugtrio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> I have the following questions, if you don't mind.
> 
> i) We already have cards with 2880 cores. Why would a next gen card have 2560 cores? Wouldn't that mean lower performance if performance is determined primarily by the number of CUDA cores? If not, what am I missing?
> 
> ii) In the article, are they talking about adding ARM64 Host Compatibility to the upcoming Tesla cards that the GeForce 800 series will be based on? If yes, would it mean that the GeForce cards would have it too? If yes, how exactly would its addition affect the performance of the upcoming GeForce cards in games?
> 
> Thank you.


ii) I'm pretty sure ARM64 host compatibility will be restricted to their Tesla cards. They don't see a market for consumer grade ARM desktops yet so they aren't going to support it until the ARM server makes more progress against x86. The same goes for IBM Power8 support.

I don't know about the first question. It'll be a new architecture so they might be able to get the same performance with less power consumption using fewer CUDA cores.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Each architecture is different. So *each individual core on Fermi, Kepler, or Maxwell GPUs might give different performance*, sometimes less per core, sometimes more.
> 
> Maybe other members can elaborate because I'm not knowledgeable in this technical stuff.


I don't know much about architectures, but I've never heard of this before. I also have never come across an occasion where the number of CUDA cores on a newer GPU was lower than on an older GPU.

As far as I know, the CUDA cores deliver the same performance across all architectures, regardless of other changes.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IvantheDugtrio*
> 
> ii) I'm pretty sure ARM64 host compatibility will be restricted to their Tesla cards. They don't see a market for consumer grade ARM desktops yet so they aren't going to support it until the ARM server makes more progress against x86. The same goes for IBM Power8 support.
> 
> I don't know about the first question. It'll be a new architecture so they might be able to get the same performance with less power consumption using fewer CUDA cores.


Okay. But would it be beneficial to gaming performance in anyway had they allowed it on GeForce cards?

Also, the next gen GPUs are supposed to have unified memory (would love to know how it affects performance) and the generation after that are supposed to have stacked DRAM (?). How exactly do these features affect the performance of the GPUs? And can we expect any of these on the 800 series cards?

Thank you very much.


----------



## IvantheDugtrio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> I don't know much about architectures, but I've never heard of this before. I also have never come across an occasion where the number of CUDA cores on a newer GPU was lower than on an older GPU.
> 
> As far as I know, the CUDA cores deliver the same performance across all architectures, regardless of other changes.
> Okay. But would it be beneficial to gaming performance in anyway had they allowed it on GeForce cards?
> 
> Also, the next gen GPUs are supposed to have unified memory (would love to know how it affects performance) and the generation after that are supposed to have stacked DRAM (?). How exactly do these features affect the performance of the GPUs? And can we expect any of these on the 800 series cards?
> 
> Thank you very much.


ARM support on GeForce cards is pointless besides building development rigs to expand the ARM desktop ecosystem. Only open-source games would work on the ARM platform since they would have to be recompiled/re-optimized from x86 to ARMv8. I have some experience using Debian on an ARM computer (Raspberry Pi) and you have to recompile most programs to use them.

If game devs hate anything, it's market fragmentation and ARM represents a huge piece of market fragmentation (besides Windows, OS X, and various Linux distros). Until ARM proves it's place as an affordable and efficient alternative to Intel or AMD's x86 it won't be making any headway in the consumer desktop space, much less the PC gaming sphere.

The next gen GPUs with 3D memory are supposed to offer much higher bandwidth than current non-stacked GDDR5 memory. I don't know about latency. It should also cut power consumption down.

Memory bandwidth is important but not that important in raw graphical horsepower. Some games depend on it more than others.


----------



## motherpuncher

Changes in the architecture.

https://devblogs.nvidia.com/parallelforall/5-things-you-should-know-about-new-maxwell-gpu-architecture/


----------



## CalinTM

So what the 880 will have the same junk 256-bit and 28nm ? Oh come on....

U know the irony of this ?

GPU's are stronger by the year, and they all marketed with, extreme gaming performance, bla bla bla, buy this and enjoy gaming proper, etc. And the PC games are WORSE by the year, in terms of porting and optimization. Since the new consoles came out people will focus in the next years only for consoles, and let PC games in the ditch...

Whats the purpose of having a extreme ivy bridge on 4.5ghz and SLI of titan blacks, if the games are crap ported and very hardware limited....8


----------



## Clocknut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> So what the 880 will have the same junk 256-bit and 28nm ? Oh come on....
> 
> U know the irony of this ?
> 
> GPU's are stronger by the year, and they all marketed with, extreme gaming performance, bla bla bla, buy this and enjoy gaming proper, etc. And the PC games are WORSE by the year, in terms of porting and optimization. Since the new consoles came out people will focus in the next years only for consoles, and let PC games in the ditch...
> 
> Whats the purpose of having a extreme ivy bridge on 4.5ghz and SLI of titan blacks, if the games are crap ported and very hardware limited....8


thats the problem we have now lol. basically a GPU that is twice the speed of PS4 GPU should become the new 8800GT.(which was able to play a lot of PS3 port for many years)


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IvantheDugtrio*
> 
> ARM support on GeForce cards is pointless besides building development rigs to expand the ARM desktop ecosystem. Only open-source games would work on the ARM platform since they would have to be recompiled/re-optimized from x86 to ARMv8. I have some experience using Debian on an ARM computer (Raspberry Pi) and you have to recompile most programs to use them.
> 
> If game devs hate anything, it's market fragmentation and ARM represents a huge piece of market fragmentation (besides Windows, OS X, and various Linux distros). Until ARM proves it's place as an affordable and efficient alternative to Intel or AMD's x86 it won't be making any headway in the consumer desktop space, much less the PC gaming sphere.
> 
> The next gen GPUs with 3D memory are supposed to offer much higher bandwidth than current non-stacked GDDR5 memory. I don't know about latency. It should also cut power consumption down.
> 
> *Memory bandwidth is important but not that important in raw graphical horsepower*. Some games depend on it more than others.


Exactly why I am concerned about finding the determining factor for raw graphical horsepower.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *motherpuncher*
> 
> Changes in the architecture.
> 
> https://devblogs.nvidia.com/parallelforall/5-things-you-should-know-about-new-maxwell-gpu-architecture/


So per core performance is different every generation? I had no idea. Thanks.

I was reading a few pages back that a 3930K offers 15% more performance than a 3770K does when multiple GPUs are concerned. Is it true for all resolutions, or just for the big ones such as 5760x1080?

I really wish to upgrade to an SLI setup with the next flagship (given that they keep it within my affordability) and I am not upgrading my CPU until DDR4/8-core becomes a little more affordable. How much performance would I be losing out on, considering resolutions 1080p and 1440p only?


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> I was reading a few pages back that a 3930K offers 15% more performance than a 3770K does when multiple GPUs are concerned. Is it true for all resolutions, or just for the big ones such as 5760x1080?


Those were my tests, and I didn't test any other resolution. My guess is the difference is not as much at smaller resolutions, and likely gets larger as the resolution grows. It probably becomes more about cache size, PCI bandwidth, and potentially even memory bandwidth at large resolutions than pure core count. That is only my speculation though.


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Exactly why I am concerned about finding the determining factor for raw graphical horsepower.
> So per core performance is different every generation? I had no idea. Thanks.


Yeah like every maxwell core is 135% of a kepler core. so that 2560 core Maxwell, is going to be like a 34xx core kepler. And if the 3200 core one comes out well if you multiply it by 0.35% than you'd basically get around 4344 which is a little above rumoured 4224 390x.

Since we don't know what the bit rate is for the cards they should be ~20% better than 780ti for the 2560, and ~45% better than 780ti for the 3200 core.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> Those were my tests, and I didn't test any other resolution. My guess is the difference is not as much at smaller resolutions, and likely gets larger as the resolution grows. It probably becomes more about cache size, PCI bandwidth, and potentially even memory bandwidth at large resolutions than pure core count. That is only my speculation though.


I really hope that my 3770K @4.4GHz proves to be enough for two of the flagships at 1080p/1440p.

Have there been tests by review sites on quad-cores vs hexa-cores on different resolutions? I really would like to see some of them if they exist.

Thank you.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deletive*
> 
> Yeah like every maxwell core is 135% of a kepler core. so that 2560 core Maxwell, is going to be like a 34xx core kepler. And if the 3200 core one comes out well if you multiply it by 0.35% than you'd basically get around 4344 which is a little above rumoured 4224 390x.
> 
> Since we don't know what the bit rate is for the cards they should be ~20% better than 780ti for the 2560, and *~45% better than 780ti for the 3200 core*.


Oh please let that be true and please let the cards be priced reasonably. I've always read and maintained the stance that the performance difference between flagships of adjacent series/generations is minimum and makes the upgrade unworthy. I'd really like to be proven wrong this time.

A higher bit rate contributes to memory bandwidth, right? But an increase of memory bandwidth doesn't contribute much to gaming performance, or so I've read and been told (which is why I never overclock the memory). Then why is bit rate a key factor?

Thank you.


----------



## pterois

Highly doubtful that the GTX 880 will have 3200 cores if that is the case. A 45% increase over the 780 Ti seems far too big, although it would be great if it were true. A 15-20% increase is more plausible.


----------



## Alatar

Honestly what's inside GM204 depends a lot on what it was actually designed for.

If it's a design originally meant for 20nm/16ff but ported to 28nm then you should expect quite a big improvement since it would be a pretty big die on 28nm.

Even on 28nm you could get surprising amounts of cores crammed into GM204 for couple of reasons:

-Maxwell chips so far have had much higher transistor density than Kepler designs (around 15%)
-With a GM204 design almost all FP64 capabilities would be removed. If you count FP64 cores a 780Ti has 3840 cuda cores. Problem is that those aren't used for gaming and unless you're buying a titan you can't even use them for the niche gpgpu loads.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Honestly what's inside GM204 depends a lot on what it was actually designed for.
> 
> If it's a design originally meant for 20nm/16ff but ported to 28nm then you should expect quite a big improvement since it would be a pretty big die on 28nm.
> 
> Even on 28nm you could get surprising amounts of cores crammed into GM204 for couple of reasons:
> 
> -Maxwell chips so far have had much higher transistor density than Kepler designs (around 15%)
> -With a GM204 design almost all FP64 capabilities would be removed. If you count FP64 cores a 780Ti has 3840 cuda cores. Problem is that those aren't used for gaming and unless you're buying a titan you can't even use them for the niche gpgpu loads.


This all assumes GM204 will be 28nm, something I'm not at all convinced of yet, despite the rampant speculation by the tech sites that gets echo chambered into its own source.


----------



## hatlesschimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Honestly what's inside GM204 depends a lot on what it was actually designed for.
> 
> If it's a design originally meant for 20nm/16ff but ported to 28nm then you should expect quite a big improvement since it would be a pretty big die on 28nm.
> 
> Even on 28nm you could get surprising amounts of cores crammed into GM204 for couple of reasons:
> 
> -Maxwell chips so far have had much higher transistor density than Kepler designs (around 15%)
> -With a GM204 design almost all FP64 capabilities would be removed. If you count FP64 cores a 780Ti has 3840 cuda cores. Problem is that those aren't used for gaming and unless you're buying a titan you can't even use them for the niche gpgpu loads.


I love your posts. They are never wasted and always useful!!


----------



## zealord

I don't care if this card has 256bit or "only" 4GB Vram as long as the performance is better than 780 Ti and it is a good card to overclock I am fine. The price should be around 500-550$ as well.

I need a new card for demanding games that are coming out. My 680 doesn't cut it anymore. A custom 870 with a good overclock will probably a very good bang for you buck then.


----------



## jdstock76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> I don't care if this card has 256bit or "only" 4GB Vram as long as the performance is better than 780 Ti and it is a good card to overclock I am fine. The price should be around 500-550$ as well.
> 
> I need a new card for demanding games that are coming out. My 680 doesn't cut it anymore. A custom 870 with a good overclock will probably a very good bang for you buck then.


How is a 680 not good enough? Just curious because that's just a smidge slower than a 770. When I disable SLI I have ZERO issues playing ANY game with one 770. And when did our GPU arrogance become so high that we expect the next generation cards to literally be 2 stages higher than last gen cards? Just curious.

Note: I really don't have an issue with the 880 being better than the 780ti trust me.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdstock76*
> 
> How is a 680 not good enough? Just curious because that's just a smidge slower than a 770. When I disable SLI I have ZERO issues playing ANY game with one 770. And when did our GPU arrogance become so high that we expect the next generation cards to literally be 2 stages higher than last gen cards? Just curious.
> 
> Note: I really don't have an issue with the 880 being better than the 780ti trust me.


Well I game at 120hz and even then the 680 can't even do 60 fps in most modern games. Watch Dogs and Titanfall even require more VRAM. They stutter at Ultra textures.
And I would love to step up to 1440p/144hz.
I don't wanna play Witcher 3, The Division etc. at mid settings with 40-50 fps. I would like to play at high/ultra with a constant 60 fps.


----------



## kingduqc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Well I game at 120hz and even then the 680 can't even do 60 fps in most modern games. Watch Dogs and Titanfall even require more VRAM. They stutter at Ultra textures.
> And I would love to step up to 1440p/144hz.
> I don't wanna play Witcher 3, The Division etc. at mid settings with 40-50 fps. I would like to play at high/ultra with a constant 60 fps.


Thats my boy! Im with a single 670 and 1440p is killing it. Summer job got me plenty o money to pleasure myself aka 870 or 880 sli. I wonder what kind of psu i would need... my 630 bronze wont do it at all if i oc sky high.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingduqc*
> 
> Thats my boy! Im with a single 670 and 1440p is killing it. Summer job got me plenty o money to pleasure myself aka 870 or 880 sli. I wonder what kind of psu i would need... my 630 bronze wont do it at all if i oc sky high.


well I bet Maxwell GPUs will have a very good Performance/Watt ratio, but 630 is probably not enough for SLI


----------



## kingduqc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> well I bet Maxwell GPUs will have a very good Performance/Watt ratio, but 630 is probably not enough for SLI


I know that. Currently shoping a good modular psu that have the fan turn off when idle. 1000w with a 4770k should be plenty right? I will wait reviews of custom pcb for that i guess.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Well I game at 120hz and even then the 680 can't even do 60 fps in most modern games. Watch Dogs and Titanfall even require more VRAM. They stutter at Ultra textures.
> And I would love to step up to 1440p/144hz.
> I don't wanna play Witcher 3, The Division etc. at mid settings with 40-50 fps. I would like to play at high/ultra with a constant 60 fps.


This is why the GTX 880 has to be more capable although I doubt if it's going to be much more powerful than the 780 Ti. Probably around 15 - 25% performance increase max.
But it has to feature a lot more memory to support upcoming games like Assassin's Creed Unity, The Division, Far Cry 4, The Wtcher 3, Dragon Age Inquisition etc that will probably require a lot of VRAM to run Ultra textures. Watch Dogs needed more than 4GB to run properly despite having 3GB as a requirement. Also a larger memory buffer would enable SLI configurations that could easily support higher resolutions. HDMI 2.0 support should be a given.


----------



## mtcn77

I think in Total War series, AMD is already pushing Nvidia's hand.
The only question is whether Nvidia's leading comfort in operating sound profile will be accompanied by sufficient visuals at equal performance.


----------



## serothis

I know this has been brought up before, but is it so hard to believe that the GM204 would be significantly better then the GK110? Consider the transition from Fermi to Kepler. the GK104 very easily surpassed the GF110. I don't remember the percentage difference but I remember it being pretty significant.

For me, it's not hard to believe that going from Kepler to Maxwell will see a similar jump.


----------



## hatlesschimp

Maxwell was always marked as a big jump. When I got my 680 I knew that Maxwell was to be the next gpu. (but I caved and got titans lol)


----------



## Bluemustang

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingduqc*
> 
> I know that. Currently shoping a good modular psu that have the fan turn off when idle. 1000w with a 4770k should be plenty right? I will wait reviews of custom pcb for that i guess.


Thats unnecessary, 850w will do you more than fine. Heck even 750 would likely do but id go 850 to be safe. Remember you want to keep your usage below 90% of total psu output but not too low either. Theres a sweet spot for optimal psu efficiency.


----------



## Dmitriy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> Unless the execution of code to the GPU is highly threaded, "more cores" won't help at all. The difference between the Z and X platforms with tri/quad-SLI amounts to increased cache size, and more PCIe lanes. Most games, even new and upcoming games, are not highly threaded at all.
> 
> What does run on a GPU as a general purpose programming language are programs called shaders. OpenGL is rarely used, and CUDA is a slow language that isn't used for anything except simple physics calculations on the GPU, since the GPU is a massively parallel system that runs many threads slowly, rather than few threads quickly.
> 
> Most game code is executed on the CPU. Most isn't highly threaded. Hence core count amounts to very little difference. Frequency/core and instructions/cycle are what matter more. Much more. CUDA/OpenGL operate @ O, whereas much of what is pushed to the GPU (rather than run directly on the GPU) is O(1).












Seriously my computer science brains are all over the wall.


----------



## RagingCain

I know I say this every time... but I think I am waiting for post-Maxwell cards.


----------



## Alatar

Everyone always says that and still most people on OCN will have current gen hardware in their sigs


----------



## serothis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Everyone always says that and still most people on OCN will have current gen hardware in their sigs


Hey now, i'm still hugging my fermi.


----------



## GTR Mclaren

lets hope the prices FINALLY drop then...GTX 770 and 760 keep the same price forever...too much for the "market"


----------



## caladbolg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dmitriy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> Unless the execution of code to the GPU is highly threaded, "more cores" won't help at all. The difference between the Z and X platforms with tri/quad-SLI amounts to increased cache size, and more PCIe lanes. Most games, even new and upcoming games, are not highly threaded at all.
> 
> What does run on a GPU as a general purpose programming language are programs called shaders. OpenGL is rarely used, and CUDA is a slow language that isn't used for anything except simple physics calculations on the GPU, since the GPU is a massively parallel system that runs many threads slowly, rather than few threads quickly.
> 
> Most game code is executed on the CPU. Most isn't highly threaded. Hence core count amounts to very little difference. Frequency/core and instructions/cycle are what matter more. Much more. CUDA/OpenGL operate @ O, whereas much of what is pushed to the GPU (rather than run directly on the GPU) is O(1).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously my computer science brains are all over the wall.
Click to expand...

Yeahhhh, I just slowly rolled my chair away from my desk. I don't even. CUDA C...slow...yep....yep. And that's not even touching parallelism.


----------



## RagingCain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caladbolg*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Dmitriy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously my computer science brains are all over the wall.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeahhhh, I just slowly rolled my chair away from my desk. I don't even. CUDA C...slow...yep....yep. And that's not even touching parallelism.
Click to expand...



i7 included for good measure.



Why is CUDA slow?


----------



## kpforce1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Everyone always says that and still most people on OCN will have current gen hardware in their sigs


Keeping my Titans for quite some time







8xx series wont make me budge.... 9xx series might but maybe not


----------



## caladbolg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RagingCain*
> 
> i7 included for good measure.
> 
> Why is CUDA slow?


I missed my /sarcasm. CUDA C is the exact opposite of slow. But someone further up the post chain doesn't think so. Apparently it's slow to them...like it's primary focus isn't massively threaded problems or something. lol


----------



## RagingCain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caladbolg*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RagingCain*
> 
> i7 included for good measure.
> 
> Why is CUDA slow?
> 
> 
> 
> I missed my /sarcasm. CUDA C is the exact opposite of slow. But someone further up the post chain doesn't think so. Apparently it's slow to them...like it's primary focus isn't massively threaded problems or something. lol
Click to expand...

Oh I caught your sarcasm, I just wanted to backup the sarcasm with some benchmarks









Virtual High Five!


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> Oh please let that be true and please let the cards be priced reasonably. I've always read and maintained the stance that the performance difference between flagships of adjacent series/generations is minimum and makes the upgrade unworthy. I'd really like to be proven wrong this time.
> 
> A higher bit rate contributes to memory bandwidth, right? But an increase of memory bandwidth doesn't contribute much to gaming performance, or so I've read and been told (which is why I never overclock the memory). Then why is bit rate a key factor?
> 
> Thank you.


Well if you think about it. Nvidia could just put the same amount of cores as a 780ti in a maxwell card and it'll just become 35% faster than a 780ti with the same amount of core

256bit, wasn't really enough for 1440p gaming like in the 680 comapred to the 384 bit. With maxwell have 8x the cache it being 256bit won't bottleneck 1440p. but with 4k the memory bandwidth would need to be greater considering 4k is coming in with it's high end textures and 8 million pixels. right now we don't know how 256 bit will perform with 2mb versus 256kb like in kepler. but the 750ti can handle much more at 128bit than a kepler card can


----------



## fateswarm

Bigger die than even GK110? You dreamin'. If Apple is happily making A8s, NVIDIA is happily making small/medium sized dies on 20nm.

Those process nodes are not released for the lols. *They are only released if they are a transistor count/cost benefit.*


----------



## Alatar

Some GM200 mentions at zauba:


----------



## GoldenTiger

Found this...








http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2577/geforce-gtx-880.html Enjoy!


----------



## Alatar

I wonder when that page was created and edited...


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Some GM200 mentions at zauba:


I'm curious about GK210...


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> I wonder when that page was created and edited...


About 18 hours hours ago according to Google.


----------



## Redeemer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> I'm curious about GK210...


Same here, I aint making the same mistake twice. I bought the GK104 680 thinking it was the real deal!


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redeemer*
> 
> Same here, I aint making the same mistake twice. I bought the GK104 680 thinking it was the real deal!


G*K*210. K, not M. GK210 would be something we have heard absolutely nothing about, and has no parallels at all to the 680 situation.


----------



## Boomstick727

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redeemer*
> 
> Same here, I aint making the same mistake twice. I bought the GK104 680 thinking it was the real deal!


Big Maxwell 'GM210' will likely appear in Feb 2015, probably under the Titan brand and be nice and pricey









Until then we will get variants of GM204 for the mainstream, to take on AMD's cards. Then the big GM210 core will be used in mainstream cards in Q3 2015.

I hope it doesn't happen like this rather not be drip fed upgrades again..

Think I'll hold onto my Titan Black until 20nm appears from AMD and Nvidia.


----------



## DrClaw

i bet they have a super monstrous future 20gig 5120-bit interface gpu hidden somewhere in a special lock chamber guarded by watchdogs and infrared lasers and guards loaded with silenced 50.caliber sniper rifles.


----------



## Richaye

Any guesses on when we can expect the 880ti?


----------



## Boomstick727

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Richaye*
> 
> Any guesses on when we can expect the 880ti?


My guess is Q3 2015.


----------



## Pendulum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serothis*
> 
> Hey now, i'm still hugging my fermi.


I feel ya, I'm still using an old Fermi, I'm going to _try_ to cling to it until Pascal.
College will keep me busy until 2016 so I might actually make it.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redeemer*
> 
> Same here, I aint making the same mistake twice. I bought the GK104 680 thinking it was the real deal!


GK210 = Just another name for GK110. Just like GK180.


----------



## Clocknut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Richaye*
> 
> Any guesses on when we can expect the 880ti?


wont be 256bit.


----------



## kingduqc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redeemer*
> 
> Same here, I aint making the same mistake twice. I bought the GK104 680 thinking it was the real deal!


I don't know for all of you but this "I made a mistake because i bought a 680" I don't get at all. When spend money on the card few years back it wasn't a good deal or what? "real deal" or not you should look at performance improvement/new features vs what ever you have now and decide it's worth the upgrade or not or even ask yourself do you need/want it and does it make sens. Even if the 880 isn't the big die but offer 60% performance over a 780ti (obviously won't but just for the argument shake) would you now jump on it day 1? I know I would.

To me it seem just odd to say that you got shafted because you bought a product without knowing there was a better thing coming up,there always is one anyway. Specially since there is 9-12 months in between most major release and there is always rumor around it few months before. Just like the titan owners. Do they complain of paying 1k at release because a few months later a 780 came out with quite better price/performance ratio? They should not because they got a kick ass product they where *willing* to spend 1k on for the performance it offered that day.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingduqc*
> 
> To me it seem just odd to say that you got shafted because you bought a product without knowing there was a better thing coming up,there always is one anyway. Specially since there is 9-12 months in between most major release and there is always rumor around it few months before. Just like the titan owners. Do they complain of paying 1k at release because a few months later a 780 came out with quite better price/performance ratio? They should not because they got a kick ass product they where *willing* to spend 1k on for the performance it offered that day.


Yup, you'd think people would have gotten used to new stuff coming out around a year after the previous generation. And anyone who read even a bit on forums during the 680 launch knew full well that architecturally the thing was a GF114 replacement.

If anything I'm somewhat annoyed that I don't really have an upgrade path from my ~16 month old titan yet (780Ti classy/kingpin doesn't count).


----------



## StrongForce

Assuming it is going to be release in october/november time frame, when can we expect some official news leak release date or anything I mean, because we're getting closer and closer if that time frame is right !


----------



## Silent Scone

I'm more interested in X99 frankly


----------



## Robertdt

I think many of us are fed up with the drip drip of incremental performance improvements while they set new records instead on price.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robertdt*
> 
> I think many of us are fed up with the drip drip of incremental performance improvements while they set new records instead on price.


gf110 to gk110 (580 to 780ti) was far from an incremental improvement - http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1135?vs=1072 (no 580 listed so i used 480)

what they call "high end" is up for debate, but 580 to 780ti is what happened with a process shrink and 1 architecture change in similar power budgets. Their only crime is selling stuff at market prices instead of heavily undercutting the 7970 and launching gk110 to consumers earlier at far lower price points, which they could have done but chose not to


----------



## ahnafakeef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingduqc*
> 
> I don't know for all of you but this "I made a mistake because i bought a 680" I don't get at all. When spend money on the card few years back it wasn't a good deal or what? "real deal" or not you should look at performance improvement/new features vs what ever you have now and decide it's worth the upgrade or not or even ask yourself do you need/want it and does it make sens. Even if the 880 isn't the big die but offer 60% performance over a 780ti (obviously won't but just for the argument shake) would you now jump on it day 1? I know I would.
> 
> To me it seem just odd to say that you got shafted because you bought a product without knowing there was a better thing coming up,there always is one anyway. Specially since there is 9-12 months in between most major release and there is always rumor around it few months before. Just like the titan owners. Do they complain of paying 1k at release because a few months later a 780 came out with quite better price/performance ratio? They should not because they got a kick ass product they where *willing* to spend 1k on for the performance it offered that day.


The first paragraph I fully support and believe in, especially when a new flagship offers ~40% improvement over the last one.

As for the second paragraph, Titan isn't really an apt example. Although almost 1.5 years from its release it is still only second (or third if you count AMD's offerings) to the best GPU available, a lot of us (especially non-US people) could have got two 780s for the price we paid for our Titan. [After having written all of this, I'm guessing your rolling eyes indicated sarcasm.]

Anyway, I'm happy that my Titan continues to perform very near to the top dog to this day. Whatever is out in Feb/Mar 2015 will hopefully be what I get next.


----------



## curly haired boy

if i'm gaming at 1080p/60fps, do you think i'll need to upgrade my 660 to a 780 ti for witcher 3? i want to be able to max it, but i can't imagine their recommended specs would include cards that aren't released yet (witcher 3 comes out in february)


----------



## Bluemustang

Yeah you're not maxing witcher 3 with just a 660


----------



## caladbolg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curly haired boy*
> 
> if i'm gaming at 1080p/60fps, do you think i'll need to upgrade my 660 to a 780 ti for witcher 3? i want to be able to max it, but i can't imagine their recommended specs would include cards that aren't released yet (witcher 3 comes out in february)


From what I know of the Witcher games, CD Project RED takes a special pride in coming up with settings that absolutely maul GPU's, but for a reason. So I wouldn't be surprised if you needed a 780 for 'max' @ 1080p in the Witcher 3


----------



## BeastRider

Can't wait for dual 880 (Ti?) to replace my dual 680s. Personally I just hope GPU devs (NV and AMD) continue to work on their multi-gpu technologies. I am a firm believer that 1 day getting 200% from 2 GPUs without stuttering is possible. I know not a lot of people have multi-GPU setups, but IMHO it's the largest benefit desktop has vs. consoles with regard to performance. Single GPU setups vs ps4/xb1 are getting closer. I don't hate on consoles at all, but IF the time comes where consoles are as beautiful as desktops, I might just get a console (PS5?). If they continue to work on SLI/xFire though, desktop will always be far more superior with regard to eye candy.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> Assuming it is going to be release in october/november time frame, when can we expect some official news leak


In July or August. Maybe September if you are unlucky. Further unluckiness would mean they don't release it before at least December.

If it's October or November I doubt legit leaks or announcements are after August.


----------



## Alatar

It's doubtful that you will even see any special announcement unless NV decides to talk about Quadro/Tesla maxwells before GTC.

New GeForce series usually doesn't get a special announcement or event. They just come out.


----------



## fateswarm

They will though promote it or leak something if two months or less are behind. It won't just come out to the shops.

At least retailers or distribution usually can't help it anyway.


----------



## Alatar

Leaks will happen beforehand of course. Whether they're controlled or accidental is another discussion entirely though.

But officially NV is unlikely to say anything about geforce until NDA lifts.


----------



## curly haired boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caladbolg*
> 
> From what I know of the Witcher games, CD Project RED takes a special pride in coming up with settings that absolutely maul GPU's, but for a reason. So I wouldn't be surprised if you needed a 780 for 'max' @ 1080p in the Witcher 3


right, i'm budgeting for an upgrade anyway....

i guess now the question is if i should get a 780 ti or an 880, whenever nvidia releases them. thoughts? thanks for the help, folks!


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curly haired boy*
> 
> right, i'm budgeting for an upgrade anyway....
> 
> i guess now the question is if i should get a 780 ti or an 880, whenever nvidia releases them. thoughts? thanks for the help, folks!


As someone who is in the exact same situation, I'm waiting for Maxwell.


----------



## curly haired boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> As someone who is in the exact same situation, I'm waiting for Maxwell.


yeah. my problem is that witcher 3 hits in february and i want to get SOMETHING before then...


----------



## fateswarm

The logical solution at the moment is an R9 290, preferably the Tri-x. It's faster than a stock titan and it can be upgraded to 2x. The 780 looked good too but it costs more and it may be replaced by NVIDIA sooner.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> The logical solution at the moment is an R9 290, preferably the Tri-x. It's faster than a stock titan and it can be upgraded to 2x. The 780 looked good too but it costs more and it may be replaced by NVIDIA sooner.


Unless, like me, you want G-Sync.


----------



## soulwrath

damn.. so should i keep my 590 GTX til Maxwell (2nd batch of 800 series cards) or Pascal.. decisions ;o


----------



## brootalperry

I wonder how much they will cost. Does this mean price drops on GTX 770s and 780s since they will be replacing those cards?
Or will the rumors from last year saying that the GTX 880 will be a mid-high range card and GTX 870 being a midranged card turn out be true?

I've no doubt there will be an increase in performance. That's always a given. What I'm most concerned about is price.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Unless, like me, you want G-Sync.


In my case I figured I would need in total 600 euros more for a feature I may not need while I play single player games or when I have high FPS so I don't care, for now.

Let alone while I wait AMDsync may be out.


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brootalperry*
> 
> I wonder how much they will cost. Does this mean price drops on GTX 770s and 780s since they will be replacing those cards?
> Or will the rumors from last year saying that the GTX 880 will be a mid-high range card and GTX 870 being a midranged card turn out be true?
> 
> I've no doubt there will be an increase in performance. That's always a given. What I'm most concerned about is price.


Like what has happened with the 600 series I wouldn't be expecting much in terms of price drops till the 900 series for the current 700 series. Values hold because of SLI. Rather than buy an 870 for a 20-30% perf increase someone who owns a 770 will just buy a second one.


----------



## BBEG

GTX 680 users are still in that Twilight Zone of knowing we have respectably-better options now (GK110), but not knowing if Maxwell is coming soon enough or will be enough of an increase to justify waiting. I'm pretty sure the ROG Swift is going to choke my 2GB 680s but can't tell if I should wait for 800s or just get 780s.

For people who know how to read those charts and specs and who can extrapolate from 750 Ti, what can we glean about power draw? More similar to Big Kepler or more in keeping with Little Kepler? I'd _love_ to see the 880 claim a 20-30% increase over a 680 with better/more memory (512bit / 4GB or 384bit / 6GB) and similar power draw but I don't know if this is an unreasonable hope or not.


----------



## jdstock76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MapRef41N93W*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *brootalperry*
> 
> I wonder how much they will cost. Does this mean price drops on GTX 770s and 780s since they will be replacing those cards?
> Or will the rumors from last year saying that the GTX 880 will be a mid-high range card and GTX 870 being a midranged card turn out be true?
> 
> I've no doubt there will be an increase in performance. That's always a given. What I'm most concerned about is price.
> 
> 
> 
> Like what has happened with the 600 series I wouldn't be expecting much in terms of price drops till the 900 series for the current 700 series. Values hold because of SLI. Rather than buy an 870 for a 20-30% perf increase someone who owns a 770 will just buy a second one.
Click to expand...

Somewhat agree here. As an owner of two 770s for less than $550 I can say that I'd expect a $700 price opener for the 880 and either $500-600 on the 870.


----------



## Crouch

Hmmm..... I wonder if I should wait till then & grab me self a 870 or just get a 770/780 when I upgrade my rig


----------



## soulwrath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crouch*
> 
> Hmmm..... I wonder if I should wait till then & grab me self a 870 or just get a 770/780 when I upgrade my rig


if only they continued the X90s and not this titan stuff :X


----------



## curly haired boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdstock76*
> 
> Somewhat agree here. As an owner of two 770s for less than $550 I can say that I'd expect a $700 price opener for the 880 and either $500-600 on the 870.


how well (percentage wise) would the 780 ti compare to the 870? any estimates?


----------



## Alatar

Charlie has a paywall article up that claims to know something about the maxwell roadmap including big maxwell and the possible die shrinks...


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Charlie has a paywall article up that claims to know something about the maxwell roadmap including big maxwell and the possible die shrinks...


Oh, really?

Me too!


----------



## ahnafakeef

To everyone who has a good enough setup for now but wants to upgrade to be able to play the upcoming titles better, I think it is better to wait until the new cards are released. That way, you might find that a card from that series is better than the one you would get now for the same amount of money.

Even if that doesn't happen, second hand 780s/780Tis will be selling at a much lower price than market price once the new cards are released, so you can save some money and get the same performance.


----------



## WiLd FyeR

Hopefully the 8 series comes out sooner, just sold my Titan for $800. So in need for another GPU.


----------



## jdstock76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curly haired boy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *jdstock76*
> 
> Somewhat agree here. As an owner of two 770s for less than $550 I can say that I'd expect a $700 price opener for the 880 and either $500-600 on the 870.
> 
> 
> 
> how well (percentage wise) would the 780 ti compare to the 870? any estimates?
Click to expand...

Rumor has it about the same but who knows for sure. I don't. LoL. Would like the 870 to at least be as strong as the 880 thou. But with better power consumption.


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> In July or August. Maybe September if you are unlucky. Further unluckiness would mean they don't release it before at least December.
> 
> If it's October or November I doubt legit leaks or announcements are after August.


Ahh cool..

And yea r9 290 tri OC definately would be what I'd go for if I couldn't wait right now, in fact I saw a bundle of 2 on ebay that's almost tempting to try to get,, because by the time 2 of these in crossfire hit a wall alot of things will happen.. I could even upgrade to a 1600p screen if I get the money too eheh, this and the fact that in the winter it will act as central heater along my FX 8320..







but eh.. I'll say it again, I'll TRY to wait.


----------



## Robertdt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> gf110 to gk110 (580 to 780ti) was far from an incremental improvement - http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1135?vs=1072 (no 580 listed so i used 480)
> 
> what they call "high end" is up for debate, but 580 to 780ti is what happened with a process shrink and 1 architecture change in similar power budgets. Their only crime is selling stuff at market prices instead of heavily undercutting the 7970 and launching gk110 to consumers earlier at far lower price points, which they could have done but chose not to


The 480 to 780ti is a span of four years, during which they approximately doubled the performance. Personally, for the prices they charge for these cards ($700-800.00 for the Ti), I would like to see a lot more than that over a four year period. The biggest jump in anything from Nvidia recently has been in prices for the high end cards. They've set new PRICE records $3000.00 for the Titan Z while actual performance has advanced IMO slowly.


----------



## Robertdt

Here is another way to look at it. At an average of 25% performance improvement per year, and say you sell your current high end card and only have to spend 200-300 to upgrade to the new 700 dollar card, and you are getting 25% more FPS, which is anywhere from say 10-15 FPS depending on if you are starting at 40-60fps, then you are paying around 13-30 dollars per additional frame. When you look at it like that, in terms of what you're actually getting for the price (and that assumes you're upgrading from the prior gen and selling your current card at a good price), the value is just not where it should be IMO.

I wonder how many people actually look at it in terms of dollar / additional frame.


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curly haired boy*
> 
> how well (percentage wise) would the 780 ti compare to the 870? any estimates?


~20% better than a 780ti


----------



## curly haired boy

i honestly don't give a flying flagella about my performance in anything else but witcher 3.....if that wasn't coming out i'd make do with my gtx 660 for another couple years lol

let's just say it's a game that deserves to be maxed


----------



## StrongForce

There are charts like that on some websites like techpowerup and techreport, also on techreport I like the frame time/$ lol

I personally think we should remain optimistic, the leap in performance might be huge this time, I have a good feeling about this ! one of the reasons I really wanna wait, also I like the idea of maxwell being low power consumption..


----------



## mcg75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deletive*
> 
> ~20% better than a 780ti


If it turns out to be the same as last generation 670 vs 580, you'd be just about right.


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curly haired boy*
> 
> i honestly don't give a flying flagella about my performance in anything else but witcher 3.....if that wasn't coming out i'd make do with my gtx 660 for another couple years lol
> 
> let's just say it's a game that deserves to be maxed


What res? 1440p or 1080p?


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> If it turns out to be the same as last generation 670 vs 580, you'd be just about right.


How much might I be able to sell my now three-month old 780 GHz for in such a situation? What if I wait until the GTX 980?


----------



## Strider49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> If it turns out to be the same as last generation 670 vs 580, you'd be just about right.


If we were to follow that rule, then a 870 would be 20% better than a 780, not a 780 Ti, I guess.


----------



## mcg75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strider49*
> 
> If we were to follow that rule, then a 870 would be 20% better than a 780, not a 780 Ti, I guess.


580 to 780 Ti is valid. Remember, the GTX 580 was fully enabled Fermi and the 780 Ti is fully enabled Kepler.

780 would be more comparable to 480 as neither was the full chip.


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> 580 to 780 Ti is valid. Remember, the GTX 580 was fully enabled Fermi and the 780 Ti is fully enabled Kepler.
> 
> 780 would be more comparable to 480 as neither was the full chip.


Yeah, the 780 would, by the same scheme Fermi followed, be like the 680/770 level GPU, the Ti just the plain 780. Kepler's been a very stretched-out and pricy generation in comparison.


----------



## gildadan

will be nice to upgrade to a new 880 from the 2 670's currently residing in my system.

If you need one tested Nvidia feel free to send one over. I will do my best to find any issues with the card.


----------



## curly haired boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deletive*
> 
> What res? 1440p or 1080p?


regular 1080p. i sit 2 feet away from my screen so i'm not looking to up my resolution for a while yet. not until curved OLED screens get their kinks worked out and i can get a really good wraparound setup


----------



## Saiyansnake

Got Tomb Raider during the Steam Sale and to my surprise my 580 cannot run it at max settings, 60fps at 1080p







. My card has officially started showing it's age so an 880 will be a substantial upgrade. Should I get the 880 or wait for the 880ti? I see a trend with these Ti cards being released not long after the regular cards and they perform better.


----------



## Accuracy158

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gildadan*
> 
> will be nice to upgrade to a new 880 from the 2 670's currently residing in my system.
> 
> If you need one tested Nvidia feel free to send one over. I will do my best to find any issues with the card.


There probably wont be a whole lot of performance increase if your going from 2 cards to one, but if nothing else it should help with power consumption and noise.


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curly haired boy*
> 
> regular 1080p. i sit 2 feet away from my screen so i'm not looking to up my resolution for a while yet. not until curved OLED screens get their kinks worked out and i can get a really good wraparound setup


if it's it's the only thing holding you back, just get a bigger desk lol, it's true that right now with my 25.5, on my small desk i feel too close already so upping resolution would certainly mean (not necessary but it would be better) bigger size, so if I were to upgrade to 28-30 maybe i'd go for a bigger desk with more distance from the screen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Saiyansnake*
> 
> Got Tomb Raider during the Steam Sale and to my surprise my 580 cannot run it at max settings, 60fps at 1080p
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . My card has officially started showing it's age so an 880 will be a substantial upgrade. Should I get the 880 or wait for the 880ti? I see a trend with these Ti cards being released not long after the regular cards and they perform better.


Did you try disabling TressFX I did some test and this seemed to be the thing that take the most ressources.. i'd say for 1080p a 880 should be enough ! (if it's really that much better than a 780Ti, let's hope not just 10% ahead though







)


----------



## BBEG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curly haired boy*
> 
> how well (percentage wise) would the 780 ti compare to the 870? any estimates?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deletive*
> 
> ~20% better than a 780ti


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> If it turns out to be the same as last generation 670 vs 580, you'd be just about right.


What is this based on? Not being obstinate, I really want to know. I'm currently thinking to replace my SLI 680s with SLI 880s and a > 20% boost per card with a better memory arrangement would be a Godsend for 1440p.


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Accuracy158*
> 
> There probably wont be a whole lot of performance increase if your going from 2 cards to one, but if nothing else it should help with power consumption and noise.


I'm going from two 670's to two 880's (or three, maybe!) As Emeril says, that should kick it up a notch.


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BBEG*
> 
> What is this based on? Not being obstinate, I really want to know. I'm currently thinking to replace my SLI 680s with SLI 880s and a > 20% boost per card with a better memory arrangement would be a Godsend for 1440p.


880s are going to be way more than 20% over 680s. They are probably going to be 20-25% perf increase over 780s, so 35-45% over 680s.


----------



## Clocknut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> 580 to 780 Ti is valid. Remember, the GTX 580 was fully enabled Fermi and the 780 Ti is fully enabled Kepler.
> 
> 780 would be more comparable to 480 as neither was the full chip.


the diff is price. Nvidia fermi is price competitive against Radeon. But Kepler is often lost the price/performance sector. It does beat AMD's price/performance for a short time, but AMD undercut it again and held it since.

Kepler is expensive.


----------



## BBEG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MapRef41N93W*
> 
> 880s are going to be way more than 20% over 680s. They are probably going to be 20-25% perf increase over 780s, so 35-45% over 680s.


Sounds good. As long as it can let me push those higher framerates (120+) on an ROG Swift without sacrificing graphics settings , I'll be happy.


----------



## fateswarm

inb4 they are max 10% better than 780Ti. They can't afford going further too soon. It's hard to shrink the transistor nowadays.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pterois*
> 
> Highly doubtful that the GTX 880 will have 3200 cores if that is the case. A 45% increase over the 780 Ti seems far too big, although it would be great if it were true. A 15-20% increase is more plausible.


Back in the day cards like the GTX 480 and 5870 used to net almost 100% increases over their predecessors after the drivers matured. Heck the 7970 is almost a 100% increase over the 6970. GPU manufactures got lazy and started milking PC gamers because the 360 and PS3 were so slow. Now that new consoles are out and 4K is becoming a thing you should expect higher performance increases then we have seen with recent cards.


----------



## kingduqc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> inb4 they are max 10% better than 780Ti. They can't afford going further too soon. It's hard to shrink the transistor nowadays.


If the tumors are true a 3200core 880 will be more then only 10%... This whole transistor cost is grtting out of hand. It did not suddenly spike that much.


----------



## Clocknut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> Back in the day cards like the GTX 480 and 5870 used to net almost 100% increases over their predecessors after the drivers matured. Heck the 7970 is almost a 100% increase over the 6970. GPU manufactures got lazy and started milking PC gamers because the 360 and PS3 were so slow. Now that new consoles are out and 4K is becoming a thing you should expect higher performance increases then we have seen with recent cards.


300w tdp will be the new high end GPU standard....







replacing the 250w tdp.

*I actually hope Intel push their top CPU to 200-300w clocking those chips @ 5GHz out of the box, that would be insane single threaded performance on top of their efficient architecture.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> Back in the day cards like the GTX 480 and 5870 used to net almost 100% increases over their predecessors after the drivers matured. Heck the 7970 is almost a 100% increase over the 6970. GPU manufactures got lazy and started milking PC gamers because the 360 and PS3 were so slow. Now that new consoles are out and 4K is becoming a thing you should expect higher performance increases then we have seen with recent cards.


I really hope there is a big increase as well as substantially more memory.


----------



## curly haired boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pterois*
> 
> I really hope there is a big increase as well as substantially more memory.


yeah me too. i'm willing to make a major investment and i want 4+ gigs of VRAM so it won't choke on stuff in the future.


----------



## soulwrath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curly haired boy*
> 
> yeah me too. i'm willing to make a major investment and i want 4+ gigs of VRAM so it won't choke on stuff in the future.


seems to be the trend of things, 400 series was 1gig, 580/590 1.5-2gigs of VRAM, 600 series 2-4 gigs (680/690), now the 780 is 3-6 gigs (780-780ti)

would hope the 880 and 880 Ti would be 4-8 G of VRAM. Watch the 880 have options of 4 to 8 and 880 Ti be just 4 or something

along with power consumption being a bit better

but my thing is that i have read and been told that it is better to just wait for the pascal chipset & just skip the maxwells since they are just not that big of an improvement from the GK110s


----------



## curly haired boy

well if the 800 series isn't a large enough leap forward, i'll just get a 780 ti or something.....prices should drop, right?


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curly haired boy*
> 
> well if the 800 series isn't a large enough leap forward, i'll just get a 780 ti or something.....prices should drop, right?


Nope, as was discussed earlier in this thread, prices do not drop much on a generation till 2 gens later. The simple reason being SLI. You will probably see second hand 780ti's for $500, but brand new ones will probably still run about $600.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curly haired boy*
> 
> well if the 800 series isn't a large enough leap forward, i'll just get a 780 ti or something.....prices should drop, right?


Well if the 800 series isn't a large enough forward, the 780 Ti prices won't drop









The 880 should be atleast 20+% better than the 780 Ti. Everything else would be disappointing. I believe in Maxwell


----------



## hht92

880 20+% better from 780 ti at what price 500$ ?? Sorry but i don't think so.They will make the same with 780, 880 at 700$ then after 6 or 7 months release 880 Ti for 700$ and the 880 500$


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hht92*
> 
> 880 20+% better from 780 ti at what price 500$ ?? Sorry but i don't think so.They will make the same with 780, 880 at 700$ then after 6 or 7 months release 880 Ti for 700$ and the 880 500$


They may do that with the 900 series, but not with the 800. The 800 is more like the 600 series. Smaller die size, but great improvement perf/watt over the previous gen.

I would even bet on the 880 to be around 500-550$ with 20% performance above the 780 Ti (stock vs stock of course). The 980 (Ti) is probably going to be expensive again, but they can't do that with the 880.

Moreover graphics cards aren't selling well at the moment so they need something that makes people want to upgrade.


----------



## supergamer

codename 1421 with a A1 stepping





Guru3d


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *supergamer*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> codename 1421 with a A1 stepping
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guru3d


8+6+6 u wot m8.

I don't know much about PCBs and stuff, but something feels fishy


----------



## StrongForce

The 880 better not be 700-800... that would suck because that's currently the price of OC Ti's..

Also have anyone notice how they put the 780 6gb out, but nothing on the Ti side... why do you think ?

Because the 880's are about to come out ! so if they had 780Ti's with 6gb ram the gap between this and the 880's in terms of performance/Vram amount would be not interesting enough to justify such a higher price.. maybe ? speculating of course.. but you know that seems fishy and that a 780Ti's with 6 or 8 gb of VRAM would be reaally uber, also the price of course there is already so much difference between the 780 and the Ti.. (but not so much between the 7806gb and the Ti.. which doesn't make much sense if you ask me).


----------



## caladbolg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> 8+6+6 u wot m8.
> 
> I don't know much about PCBs and stuff, but something feels fishy


Don't know much about power draws, but maybe the extra 6 is intentional to ensure it can't have too little power. General over engineering.


----------



## fateswarm

Yeah. Don't pay much I attention to inputs since after a point they may be either overkill, or be violating the current specifications anyway. e.g. you know when a motherboard reviewer is clueless when he says "an 8-pin connector, this overclocks well".


----------



## iSlayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robertdt*
> 
> The 480 to 780ti is a span of four years, during which they approximately doubled the performance. Personally, for the prices they charge for these cards ($700-800.00 for the Ti), I would like to see a lot more than that over a four year period. The biggest jump in anything from Nvidia recently has been in prices for the high end cards. They've set new PRICE records $3000.00 for the Titan Z while actual performance has advanced IMO slowly.


Titan Z is definitely a big middle finger to consumers but how has the energy usage changed? Temperatures?

Looked it up and power consumption doesn't seem to have changed and the temperatures are better. GTX 480 was hotttt.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> 8+6+6 u wot m8.
> 
> I don't know much about PCBs and stuff, but something feels fishy


Keep in mind this is allegedly an engineering sample - they can definitely do fishy things with the board peripherals for testing purposes that they have no intention of putting on a retail card.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iSlayer*
> 
> Titan Z is definitely a big middle finger to consumers


Middle finger? That's like saying Lamborghini Diablo was a middle finger. Don't get it, get a Porsche 911 Turbo Instead (Cabrio version).


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Middle finger? That's like saying Lamborghini Diablo was a middle finger. Don't get it, get a Porsche 911 Turbo Instead (Cabrio version).


More like discontinuing the next iteration of the Diablo, rebranding it, and tripling the price for no good reason.


----------



## DFroN

I can't see me upgrading from a 780 until the first cards with DP1.3 are out and ready for 120hz 4k monitors.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Middle finger? That's like saying Lamborghini Diablo was a middle finger. Don't get it, get a Porsche 911 Turbo Instead (Cabrio version).










you cannot compare GPUs to cars. They are completely different markets. How much do you think that Titan Z will sell for in 4 years? A super car's value is found in much more than raw speed unlike GPUs which are valued *only* by their speed which will always become obsolete in afew years.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you cannot compare GPUs to cars.


But you can complain apparently that you can't get a Titan when there are other cards to get. It seems the problem some people have is psychological, not market related.


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> But you can complain apparently that you can't get a Titan when there are other cards to get. It seems the problem some people have is psychological, not market related.


Thanks for ignoring me.







Let me rephrase... the Titan Z has made the 790 a no-show and it's three times the price of Nvidia's historical dual-GPU cards. This Titan stuff is directly influencing Nvidia's decisions with the rest of their lineup and is a historical anomaly for no valid reason other than because they think they can.


----------



## jdstock76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serandur*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> But you can complain apparently that you can't get a Titan when there are other cards to get. It seems the problem some people have is psychological, not market related.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for ignoring me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me rephrase... the Titan Z has made the 790 a no-show and it's three times the price of Nvidia's historical dual-GPU cards. This Titan stuff is directly influencing Nvidia's decisions with the rest of their lineup and is a historical anomaly for no valid reason other than because they think they can.
Click to expand...

I personally never saw the point of the Titan. For half the price you can buy two mid range cards for SLI.

Of course there's the whole small build where only one card is allowed and then there are the guys who always have to have the best. Much like the guy that buys a Porsche.

But hey I suppose if I had the money to blow on two Titan's I would. ;-)


----------



## iSlayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Middle finger? That's like saying Lamborghini Diablo was a middle finger. Don't get it, get a Porsche 911 Turbo Instead (Cabrio version).


Were you the guy who was saying the Titan Z is a great deal and businesses are buying them up like hotcakes?

The price point is just insulting.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdstock76*
> 
> I personally never saw the point of the Titan. For half the price you can buy two mid range cards for SLI.
> 
> Of course there's the whole small build where only one card is allowed and then there are the guys who always have to have the best. Much like the guy that buys a Porsche.
> 
> But hey I suppose if I had the money to blow on two Titan's I would. ;-)


Some people don't like dual GPU setups. I don't and I mostly know what I'm talking about when it comes to user experience with GPUs.

Anyway the real point of the Titan is quite simple. Hint: I've owned one for almost 17 months.


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Daffron*
> 
> I can't see me upgrading from a 780 until the first cards with DP1.3 are out and ready for 120hz 4k monitors.


You mean like Maxwell?


----------



## DFroN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MapRef41N93W*
> 
> You mean like Maxwell?


Is that the case? That's good news. Just a question of how many GPU's will be needed then!


----------



## Olivon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> 8+6+6 u wot m8.
> 
> I don't know much about PCBs and stuff, but something feels fishy


http://www.overclock.net/t/1499537/vc-nvidia-geforce-gtx-880-pictured/0_100#post_22508446


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Some people don't like dual GPU setups. I don't and I mostly know what I'm talking about when it comes to user experience with GPUs.
> 
> Anyway the real point of the Titan is quite simple. Hint: I've owned one for almost 17 months.


The point of the Titan was to raise Nvidia's GPU prices across the board. You would have to be blind not to see that. The 780 would never have looked like a good deal for $650 if i didn't perform close to an overinflated $1000 GPU. Especially given that the 680, 580 and 480 were all priced around the $500 mark. Funny how that flew over so many peoples heads and now they can charge way more than $500 for the 880 and everyone will be okay with it.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iSlayer*
> 
> Were you the guy who was saying the Titan Z is a great deal and businesses are buying them up like hotcakes?


What are you talking about? The price is abysmal and only lunatics get them. Even businesses wouldn't.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Anyway the real point of the Titan is quite simple. Hint: I've owned one for almost 17 months.


That argument you use a lot, and it's not as good as you think it is. Not that many months later, in 2013, people could get an R9 290 for less than 400 in some cases.They could CF those for less than a Titan's cost, while on their own and at stock they are already not a lot different.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> *That argument you use a lot, and it's not as good as you think it is.* Not that many months later, in 2013, people could get an R9 290 for less than 400 in some cases.They could CF those for less than a Titan's cost, while on their own and at stock they are already not a lot different.


WRONG. Don't even go there. Not-that-many months later? Please tell me the exact gap I'm dying to know? As by my count it's practically an entire year....And guess what, the Titan is still the better option for 4K users.

The 290X won't have anywhere near the same life span as that. At least not for many people. I would say the Titan at this stage, and for the considerable future is a solid investment for those who purchased back in Feb 2013.

You'll have to excuse the abruptness but my hotair-metre is particularly sensitive during man flu periods


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> That argument you use a lot, and it's not as good as you think it is. Not that many months later, in 2013, people could get an R9 290 for less than 400 in some cases.They could CF those for less than a Titan's cost, while on their own and at stock they are already not a lot different.


9-10 months is how long I had my Titan before the 290s came out. That's almost twice, or at least 1.5x the legendary Fermi delay. And the Fermi delay is considered to be one of the biggest blunders of the GPU industry. That's almost a whole GPU generation of time. It's a really long time in the PC business.

Not to mention that since I'm an overclocker the Titan is actually faster than even the 290X. Has more memory etc. But you know, those are small details. The point is that while I paid a lot of money for it, I got it much, much earlier than other people. For me that's a good value in PC hardware.

Might be different for other people but I'm not going to wait 9 months to save ~$450 and get slightly less performance. That's what being an early adopter is all about. And my argument is going to be exactly the same when 1 year after me buying a 5960X intel releases a cheaper 8-core based on broadwell or something.


----------



## Silent Scone

It makes me chuckle. With the announcement of the Titan, can you honestly say with a straight face there were Tahiti / GK104 users thinking "Well AMD are going to come up with something shortly I'm sure of it..."

5 or 6 months later "Any time now"...

17, or even 10 months in computing is a lifetime.


----------



## soulwrath

All about direct 12


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> 9-10 months is how long


The example could have used a 780.

And I didn't say you don't have a point. I think it's way weaker than you portray it to be.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> WRONG. Don't even go there. Not-that-many months later? Please tell me the exact gap I'm dying to know? As by my count it's practically an entire year....And guess what, the Titan is still the better option for 4K users.
> 
> The 290X won't have anywhere near the same life span as that. At least not for many people. I would say the Titan at this stage, and for the considerable future is a solid investment for those who purchased back in Feb 2013.
> 
> You'll have to excuse the abruptness but my hotair-metre is particularly sensitive during man flu periods


The 290x is superior to the 780 Ti at 4K so i don't know how the titan with it's decreased core count magically beats it.


----------



## Clocknut

I am actually still torn between running 2 mid range or a single high end. I dont care about power consumption, but is SLI really that bad over single GPU? because SLI is still better than crossfire.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> The 290x is superior to the 780 Ti at 4K so i don't know how the titan with it's decreased core count magically beats it.


Tried 4K on a 290X recently?

Depends how you mean by 'beats'. If you can get it to work flawlessly on a SST panel then in some games, it probably does, yes.


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> The point of the Titan was to raise Nvidia's GPU prices across the board. You would have to be blind not to see that. The 780 would never have looked like a good deal for $650 if i didn't perform close to an overinflated $1000 GPU. Especially given that the 680, 580 and 480 were all priced around the $500 mark. Funny how that flew over so many peoples heads and now they can charge way more than $500 for the 880 and everyone will be okay with it.


This... is the core of the problem with the Titan which I find strangely overlooked and ignored. Guys, $1000 single-GPU flagships are not acceptable by any recent historical metric... you're just feeding the practice by buying them. $500-$600 max for a shiny new, flagship GPU is where Nvidia used to aim things. Does nobody care?

The Titan Black is the modern equivalent to Fermi's 3 GB 580 that was available for ~$550. The Titan Black is nearly twice the price and Nvidia artfically tried to justify it by forbidding double-VRAM 780 models. That's ridiculous, and it will be even more ridiculous when that $1000 card is thrashed by the comparitively cheap next generation chips as its half-price predecessors were.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> The 290x is superior to the 780 Ti at 4K so i don't know how the titan with it's decreased core count magically beats it.


The Titan has 6GB of VRAM, with an SLI setup it can provide both the performance and the memory for upcoming games even at 4K. The 290X only has 4GB and even though it performs relatively okay at 4K now, upcoming games will require more than 4GB for maximum settings especially at higher resolutions with Ultra textures. A 290X crossfire configuration while quite powerful is still limited by the 4GB memory buffer. This refers to the original Titan as the Titan Black is a completely different case.


----------



## fateswarm

I believe the argument goes 4K needs the 512bit bus more than it needs the 4GBs of 290s.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> I believe the argument goes 4K needs the 512bit bus more than it needs the 4GBs of 290s.


512bit bus would be great but 4GB won't be enough for 1080 let alone 4K.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serandur*
> 
> This... is the core of the problem with the Titan which I find strangely overlooked and ignored. Guys, $1000 single-GPU flagships are not acceptable by any recent historical metric... you're just feeding the practice by buying them. $500-$600 max for a shiny new, flagship GPU is where Nvidia used to aim things. Does nobody care?
> 
> The Titan Black is the modern equivalent to Fermi's 3 GB 580 that was available for ~$550. The Titan Black is nearly twice the price and Nvidia artfically tried to justify it by forbidding double-VRAM 780 models. That's ridiculous, and it will be even more ridiculous when that $1000 card is thrashed by the comparitively cheap next generation chips as its half-price predecessors were.


The GTX8800s back when they came out ranged from $700-1200~
I bought my first GPUs at $800 a pop back in like 2007 from EVGA or whenever at those prices.

The Titan was a pretty significant upgrade ~at the time of release~ imo. Now? Yes it direly needs some crazy price drop.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pterois*
> 
> 4GB won't be enough for 1080


wut


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> I believe the argument goes 4K needs the 512bit bus more than it needs the 4GBs of 290s.


Urgh.

The bus on the 290 is a paper tiger in this respect. If it was such andvantage then it would edge the 780Ti considerably. It's great on paper but pair it with crap memory and you might as well be p*ssing in the wind.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> If it was such andvantage then it would edge the 780Ti considerably..


Yeah that would make sense if the GK110 wasn't a better chip on its own.


----------



## jdstock76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Anyway the real point of the Titan is quite simple. Hint: I've owned one for almost 17 months.
> 
> 
> 
> That argument you use a lot, and it's not as good as you think it is. Not that many months later, in 2013, people could get an R9 290 for less than 400 in some cases.They could CF those for less than a Titan's cost, while on their own and at stock they are already not a lot different.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing. But it's funny how my old 660ti's beat the Titan in just about every benchmark.

I understand that people don't like SLI but it's seriously the best way to go.

Hint: I build gaming systems for a living. I happen to know just a little bit. ;-P


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28*
> 
> The GTX8800s back when they came out ranged from $700-1200~
> I bought my first GPUs at $800 a pop back in like 2007 from EVGA or whenever at those prices.
> 
> The Titan was a pretty significant upgrade ~at the time of release~ imo. Now? Yes it direly needs some crazy price drop.


The 8800GTX prices I remember were $600-$650 with overclocked "Ultras" being the ones going any higher. The 8800GTX was also a pretty massive upgrade from its predecessors from what I remember; in my mind it even marks the beginning of the modern GPU market with the introduction of CUDA, Nvidia's first unified shaders, DX10, the massive performance improvements, etc. Nvidia also didn't mess around with all that mid-range as the first-gen nonsense and just flat-out released their best. Within the context of its time (and its potential longevity depending on how you used it), I hold the 8800GTX in high regard and it offered much better performance for its time while still being a potentially much cheaper price relative to the Titans.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serandur*
> 
> The 8800GTX prices I remember were $600-$650 with overclocked "Ultras" being the ones going any higher. The 8800GTX was also a pretty massive upgrade from its predecessors from what I remember; in my mind it even marks the beginning of the modern GPU market with the introduction of CUDA, Nvidia's first unified shaders, DX10, the massive performance improvements, etc. Nvidia also didn't mess around with all that mid-range as the first-gen nonsense and just flat-out released their best. Within the context of its time (and its potential longevity depending on how you used it), I hold the 8800GTX in high regard and it offered much better performance for its time while still being a potentially much cheaper price relative to the Titans.


Yes sorry I was referring mainly about the Ultras, but there were regular GTX8800 models with extra memory that cost more and the such in the same way we have now. I believe I chose the GTXs over the Ultras despite the price being effectively the same for that extra memory vs performance. Why? I dont know, I was a complete noob at the time literally haha

But yes, I do agree, the 8800GTXs were a massive jump at the time and from there onward, Nvidia had a fantastic price value. The 8800GTs were amazing budget GPUs for its time.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Yeah that would make sense if the GK110 wasn't a better chip on its own.


What? The bus width doesn't matter except some niche card designs, the final bandwidth amount does. The r9 290 has about the same bandwidth as the gtx 780 ti but despite having a 33 percent wider bus, due to the poor memory speeds used.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> The bus width doesn't matter except some niche


What?


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> What?


Niche as in asymmetrical memory designs. They are rare. As I said it's normally just the final bandwidth that matters, not the width







.


----------



## Bluemustang

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Niche as in asymmetrical memory designs. They are rare. As I said it's normally just the final bandwidth that matters, not the width
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


What he means is just because one memory has a faster clock doesnt mean bus width is irrelevant lol. Same as you can OC your cpu a lot but itll never make up for extra cores in well multi threaded apps.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bluemustang*
> 
> What he means is just because one memory has a faster clock doesnt mean bus width is irrelevant lol. Same as you can OC your cpu a lot but itll never make up for extra cores in well multi threaded apps.


It's not irrelevant, it's just not the actually important metric for performance. If I tell you two cards have bus widths of 256 and 512, which one is better? Answer: Cannot be determined from information given. Because the actual memory bandwidth is what is being used, in the end. If the 256-bit one has higher total bandwidth, then the wider bus isn't actually providing an advantage.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28*
> 
> The GTX8800s back when they came out ranged from $700-1200~
> I bought my first GPUs at $800 a pop back in like 2007 from EVGA or whenever at those prices.
> 
> The Titan was a pretty significant upgrade ~at the time of release~ imo. Now? Yes it direly needs some crazy price drop.


I don't remember it being very significant at all. The card actually received alot of criticism because at the time of release it was 20-30% faster then the 7970 with more than double the price tag. It was pretty much the same change from 580 -> 680 with the drivers it had for the first few months in terms of performance. It wasn't the huge jump in performance people hyped it up to be, heck it wasn't even the fully unlocked core for that price.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Cannot be determined from information given.


Of course it can not. But some people effectively saying that it's a gimmick to fool children is just *wrong*.


----------



## kingduqc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> I don't remember it being very significant at all. The card actually received alot of criticism because at the time of release it was 20-30% faster then the 7970 with more than double the price tag. It was pretty much the same change from 580 -> 680 with the drivers it had for the first few months in terms of performance. It wasn't the huge jump in performance people hyped it up to be, heck it wasn't even the fully unlocked core for that price.


at one point before tge 780 release you could almost buy 4 7970 on a sale.. yeah 4 7970 would destroy a titan. But Amd drivers for multi gpu where crap really. My friend got 2 befor the driver and sold em withing a month.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Of course it can not. But some people effectively saying that it's a gimmick to fool children is just *wrong*.


What on earth are you talking about? Who said that even?


----------



## Silent Scone

Nobody. I said the 512 bus was a bit of a paper tiger due to the poor memory speeds. Which is true. The actual bandwidth used won't be anywhere near what you'd expect. As I said, because the results would reflect this at high resolutions. Not sure how you could possibly find a way to dispute that.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nobody. I said the 512 bus was a bit of a paper tiger due to the poor memory speeds. Which is true. The actual bandwidth used won't be anywhere near what you'd expect. As I said, because the results would reflect this at high resolutions. Not sure how you could possibly find a way to dispute that.


Yeah, me either. That's spot on. . .


----------



## Wirerat

isnt the GB/S and the amount of vram the important part of memory? looking a bandwidth alone can be misleading.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wirerat*
> 
> isnt the GB/S and the amount of vram the important part of memory? looking a bandwidth alone can be misleading.


Gb/S is the bandwidth, and capacity doesn't affect the speed (except the but rare card that uses an asymmetrical configuration as I noted before).


----------



## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Gb/S is the bandwidth, and capacity doesn't affect the speed (except the but rare card that uses an asymmetrical configuration as I noted before).


i know the amount doesnt affect the speed I was just saying those two are the important specs as far as the memory is concerned.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wirerat*
> 
> i know the amount doesnt affect the speed I was just saying those two are the important see cs as far as the memory is concerned.


Ah, yes then. I thought you were thinking the bandwidth wasn't gb/S, my misunderstanding of your post then







.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Nobody. I said the 512 bus was a bit of a paper tiger due to the poor memory speeds. Which is true. The actual bandwidth used won't be anywhere near what you'd expect. As I said, because the results would reflect this at high resolutions. Not sure how you could possibly find a way to dispute that.


What's so poor about at least 5200MHz 512bit memory?


----------



## Silent Scone

You tell me, doesn't seem to be doing it any favours at Ultra HD

I've just found out my Black does 2.1Ghz. Stick that on a bigger bus width why don't you


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> You tell me, doesn't seem to be doing it any favours at Ultra HD
> 
> I've just found out my Black does 2.1Ghz. Stick that on a bigger bus width why don't you


a 290X would only need to be at 1575 Mhz to equal your bandwidth and that's part of the perks of a bigger bus. The Vram lottery isn't as important. If someone were lucky enough to get a 2.1Ghz on a 512 bus they would be running at 537GB/s.


----------



## Silent Scone

I'm fully aware what it 'equates to'. What I don't see is the proof that that the bus is doing anything to edge other cards at 4K due to the slower memory on it. Hence paper tiger

Next there will be some noob coming along saying TITAN BLACK IS JUST A 780TI With DP enabled and extra 3 dorrar RAMz.

Seeing as we're stating the obvious here


----------



## fateswarm

BTW. I was testing some benchmarks and it seems even from 5200MHz 512bit to 5400MHz I get a benefit, *IF* the test software is huge on textures or antialiasing or other such heavy on the vram things. So make sure you do not test them on a flimsy on the memory test.

As a very rough guide, stress tests that load up very fast, rarely demand high memory speeds.









The latter aren't that realistic anyway.


----------



## Ascii Aficionado

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *supergamer*


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> BTW. I was testing some benchmarks and it seems even from 5200MHz 512bit to 5400MHz I get a benefit, *IF* the test software is huge on textures or antialiasing or other such heavy on the vram things. So make sure you do not test them on a flimsy on the memory test.
> 
> As a very rough guide, stress tests that load up very fast, rarely demand high memory speeds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The latter aren't that realistic anyway.


I'll agree with you there and thought about adding a few examples but couldn't be bothered arguing with my own logic







. We've done some testing across the pond and yes in some scenarios where MSAA is really heavy the 290x takes a lead by a few FPS in certain games. Unless you take the core on a Ti over 1400 which for most is out of reach for regular use.

Not to mention obviously, 8X MSAA when talking about 4K is ludicrous lol. Pretty sure 4GB VRAM wouldn't cut it anyway in most games


----------



## Internet Swag

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> Newegg has 780s already under $500 brand new... Where have you been? Lol
> 
> I'd expect 780s to drop to $400 new by November/December time if Maxwell comes out then. Pickup a used 780 for $300-350...
> 
> Seems like Maxwell is going to be a big jump in performance, so it'll be exciting what games will look like 1-2 years from now...


Like crap because consoles


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Internet Swag*
> 
> Like crap because consoles


Exactly, It's the consoles that set the standard for graphics not high end PC graphics cards. Unfortunately it will be a long time until PC sees the visual quality of exclusive titles like Uncharted 4 and The Order 1886.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pterois*
> 
> It's the consoles that set the standard


The world is not black and white. Don't try to find "the" contribution, everything has a contribution. e.g. right now games on phones or facebook have a big contribution.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> The world is not black and white. Don't try to find "the" contribution, everything has a contribution. e.g. right now games on phones or facebook have a big contribution.


Mobile gaming brought retro back in a big way but on the technical side it's the consoles that govern. More powerful consoles means better looking PC titles, it's disappointing but most developers do focus on consoles.


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pterois*
> 
> Exactly, It's the consoles that set the standard for graphics not high end PC graphics cards. Unfortunately it will be a long time until PC sees the visual quality of exclusive titles like Uncharted 4 and The Order 1886.


Don't these cards only really left overs from the chips they make for quadro and tesla cards?

What I mean is, these cards are going to be made for those anyways so they might as just give us these higher end cards. I don't think they have Gaming in mind compared to 4k rendering when it comes to making these chips.

it'll be a decent improvement... with 4k content creation coming now, they'll need so high end cards for those tasks.


----------



## Strider49

I've been building my first gaming PC for the last couple of months. The only two components missing are the graphics card and the monitor. I wanted to couple a Matrix 780 Ti to the ROG Swift, but Maxwell is around the corner and I don't know what to do anymore. I could wait, but I need a graphics card to be able to play BF3, BF4, the Witcher saga and some more AAA and Indie titles during this summer.

So, should I buy a used AMD card and then sell it right before Maxwell kicks in, or should I get a mid-low end NVIDIA (750 Ti, 660, 660 Ti, 760, 770)? What I want, of course, is to lose the least money possible... but I really have to make a purchase before Maxwell, otherwise I can't use my machine for gaming during summer holiday (I'm in college, so I don't have that much time to game during the rest of the year and I really have to make my holiday worth it).


----------



## Sparda09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strider49*
> 
> I've been building my first gaming PC for the last couple of months. The only two components missing are the graphics card and the monitor. I wanted to couple a Matrix 780 Ti to the ROG Swift, but Maxwell is around the corner and I don't know what to do anymore. I could wait, but I need a graphics card to be able to play BF3, BF4, the Witcher saga and some more AAA and Indie titles during this summer.
> 
> So, should I buy a used AMD card and then sell it right before Maxwell kicks in, or should I get a mid-low end NVIDIA (750 Ti, 660, 660 Ti, 760, 770)? What I want, of course, is to lose the least money possible... but I really have to make a purchase before Maxwell, otherwise I can't use my machine for gaming during summer holiday (I'm in college, so I don't have that much time to game during the rest of the year and I really have to make my holiday worth it).


What are you willing to spend? Id say grab a 760 off amazon and call it a day, save up for the 800 series cards and you will be solid. they are rumored to be cheaper than the 700 series...


----------



## Strider49

Yeah, I'm definitely leaning more towards NVIDIA.
I have the money to buy a 780 Ti now, but I feel it's not the smartest thing to do since the 800 series cards are around the corner and, as you said, they should be cheaper than the 700 series. So I want to grab a low to mid-end graphics card and then sell it around September/October in order to lose the least money possible. That'll cut it off for the next few months until Maxwell kicks in.


----------



## flopticalcube

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strider49*
> 
> Yeah, I'm definitely leaning more towards NVIDIA.
> I have the money to buy a 780 Ti now, but I feel it's not the smartest thing to do since the 800 series cards are around the corner and, as you said, they should be cheaper than the 700 series. So I want to grab a low to mid-end graphics card and then sell it around September/October in order to lose the least money possible. That'll cut it off for the next few months until Maxwell kicks in.


Get an EVGA 750ti. They overclock like crazy giving you 750ti FTW performance without the need for a 6pin power connection which makes resale easier as they are very popular with upgraders of OEM systems that have weak PSUs. Should be able to find one for about 120 Euros or so. You might lose 20 or 30 Euros over a few months at the most.


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flopticalcube*
> 
> Get an EVGA 750ti. They overclock like crazy giving you 750ti FTW performance without the need for a 6pin power connection which makes resale easier as they are very popular with upgraders of OEM systems that have weak PSUs. Should be able to find one for about 120 Euros or so. You might lose 20 or 30 Euros over a few months at the most.


He wants to be able to play Witcher 2, BF4, and other AAAs. A 750ti can really only play them on medium/medium-low 1080p. I'd recommend a 660ti or 760.


----------



## Sparda09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strider49*
> 
> Yeah, I'm definitely leaning more towards NVIDIA.
> I have the money to buy a 780 Ti now, but I feel it's not the smartest thing to do since the 800 series cards are around the corner and, as you said, they should be cheaper than the 700 series. So I want to grab a low to mid-end graphics card and then sell it around September/October in order to lose the least money possible. That'll cut it off for the next few months until Maxwell kicks in.


it also really depends on the resolution and games you are going to play. But even a 750 Ti would do you some justice (again all depending...) and they are super cheap. I wouldn't spend much more than $300 at this point. save up and you should be fine!


----------



## flopticalcube

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MapRef41N93W*
> 
> He wants to be able to play Witcher 2, BF4, and other AAAs. A 750ti can really only play them on medium/medium-low 1080p. I'd recommend a 660ti or 760.


I was under the impression that he wanted to sell right before Maxwell comes out and just be able to play right now. A 750ti will give him the least loss as its cheaper yet still has a higher resale value as a % of original price. Of course, his experience will be much more enjoyable with a 760 if a little more expensive in the end.


----------



## Strider49

Thank you guys for your help! Really appreciate it.







Yeah, this card is just to play BF3/BF4, The Witcher 2, Outlast, Assassin's Creed II, Far Cry 3, GTA IV and a bunch of Indies from the Humble Indie Bundles at 1080p until Maxwell comes out (I'll leave 1440p for when I have a Maxwell high-end card). I doubt I'll have time to cover many more games than that.
So, between a 750 Ti and a 760, which one do you recommend? Should it be easier to resell a 750 Ti than a 760?

Cheers


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strider49*
> 
> Thank you guys for your help! Really appreciate it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, this card is just to play BF3/BF4, The Witcher 2, Outlast, Assassin's Creed II, Far Cry 3, GTA IV and a bunch of Indies from the Humble Indie Bundles at 1080p until Maxwell comes out (I'll leave 1440p for when I have a Maxwell high-end card). I doubt I'll have time to cover many more games than that.
> So, between a 750 Ti and a 760, which one do you recommend? Should it be easier to resell a 750 Ti than a 760?
> 
> Cheers


A 750ti will be easier to sell, but a 760 shouldn't be that hard either. I personally sold one a few months ago on here and only lost 30$ on it.


----------



## curly haired boy

how much does a 660 sell for?


----------



## fateswarm

Why would you care of the "resale value" of an R9 290 when it already costs lower than a mid-end NVIDIA card and it beats a stock Titan in various models? That's the resale value! You already got it low.


----------



## Silent Scone




----------



## jdstock76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curly haired boy*
> 
> how much does a 660 sell for?


I just sold my last 660ti for $200.


----------



## Internet Swag

So the 770 will perform equal to a 860?


----------



## jdstock76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Internet Swag*
> 
> So the 770 will perform equal to a 860?


Most likely.


----------



## Strider49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Why would you care of the "resale value" of an R9 290 when it already costs lower than a mid-end NVIDIA card and it beats a stock Titan in various models? That's the resale value! You already got it low.


That's true. I've just seen a used Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X OC for 300€, bought in February 2014. This is a good deal, right? They sell new for 400€ or so, and a 760 would cost me around 200€.


----------



## StrongForce

no you can find deals new with price being that or close to that on a french shop I seen it at 300 I was hesitating.


----------



## Strider49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> no you can find deals new with price being that or close to that on a french shop I seen it at 300 I was hesitating.


Are you going for a 290 too? Can you send me a PM with the name of that shop? Do they ship to Portugal?

Thanks

EDIT: Yes, I'm seeing it going for ~350€ on Amazon.


----------



## StrongForce

no it's a french website, there must be multiple online shop in portugal (or even spain that shop in port who knows) just look arround there might be deals, not going for a 290, I'll keep the big money for most likely a 880, might get something cheap for the mean time, still haven't decided yet.. I'll keep you updated


----------



## Strider49

Thanks. There are indeed multiple online shops in Portugal, but the prices are too high (23% VAT...). It is usually cheaper to buy hardware abroad (in Spain, France, Germany or the UK) and get it shipped to here. I'll probably end up getting a 750 Ti or 760 new.

Btw, more rumours regarding Maxwell GM204 GPUs: http://videocardz.com/51009/nvidia-preparing-four-maxwell-gm204-skus


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BBEG*
> 
> What is this based on? Not being obstinate, I really want to know. I'm currently thinking to replace my SLI 680s with SLI 880s and a > 20% boost per card with a better memory arrangement would be a Godsend for 1440p.


The 780ti's alone at comparable clock speeds are already basically as fast, with just one card, as sli680.


----------



## StrongForce

Sniped a hd 7950 on ebay.. for 93 euros, not bad uh, for the mean time







. And then according to this article, I might wait for Maxwell 16nm 880 OC versions, which should be pretty badass ..


----------



## bhav

16 nm Maxwell gonna be my next upgrade too, the GK104 replacements, not the higher end GK110 ones though.


----------



## BBEG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> The 780ti's alone at comparable clock speeds are already basically as fast, with just one card, as sli680.


Then I'm gonna love the crap out of SLI 880s... theoretically, anyway.


----------



## Ascii Aficionado

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> The 780ti's alone at comparable clock speeds are already basically as fast, with just one card, as sli680.


So.. coming from reference 570 SLI to an EVGA 780 Ti Classified should be a large improvement.

/dance


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Looking for upgrade to my GTX 670. Still a good card, hasnt givin up on me yet. Hope the 870/880 will be priced reasonable well.


----------



## JoHnYBLaZe

Wonder how many people are going to wait on the 880 after what happened with the 7 series

I like the fact the 8 series will probably run cooler, use less power and heat, my 780ti's are space heaters....

Also logic tells me I could probably get more money for my Ti's by selling them for the 880, instead of waiting for the 980's


----------



## bhav

I just want 16 nm next plus Maxwell efficiency. Looks like there will be a juicy card with more perf than a 780 ti, and less power draw and heat than a 770. I want three of those to power my ROG Swift.

Tbh I don't really need 16 nm CPUs, mine will still last ages. If prices go down, Id rather get another 2 Rog Swifts.


----------



## BBEG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ascii Aficionado*
> 
> So.. coming from reference 570 SLI to an EVGA 780 Ti Classified should be a large improvement.
> 
> /dance


If a 780 Ti is slightly faster than my 680s in SLI, and the 880 is _likely_ to be faster than a 780 Ti, then moving from SLI 680 to SLI 880 should be quite an improvement for me as well. It'll work wonders driving a certain soon-to-release 1440 monitor that would choke my GK104's.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JoHnYBLaZe*
> 
> Wonder how many people are going to wait on the 880 after what happened with the 7 series
> 
> I like the fact the 8 series will probably run cooler, use less power and heat, my 780ti's are space heaters....
> 
> Also logic tells me I could probably get more money for my Ti's by selling them for the 880, instead of waiting for the 980's


I do agree with your logic re: selling the Ti's for the 880s vs waiting.

I won't be waiting if the first leaked reviews are consistent with the current chatter. On my current power supply I top out at 500-530W from the wall with GPUs at 1.212V and 2600k at 1.4V while benching. If GM204 does in fact let an 880 run faster than a 780 Ti, and does so at the same or less power draw as my current GPUs, then it's a no-brainer for me. I already have the headroom on the PSU and will be watercooling, so I can't think of a reason at all not to grab me some Classified's and start bumping up the voltage.

(My debate is more on the CPU side and whether to jump on Haswell-E early or wait... I'm a little miffed about the 5930K not being 8-core. The PCI lane differences between 5820K and 5930K, miniscule differences though they are, are icing on the indecision cake.)


----------



## Mand12

Are people still seriously thinking an 880 won't be faster than a 780 Ti?

Do you really think Nvidia is that stupid?


----------



## fateswarm

I'm been looking into what TSMC is doing with 20nm and it's a bit hazy even though there is a lot of activity, and many names that are out, some confirmed like Apple's A8 for the new iphone, making the activity likely a real thing. There are also some corporate analysts rumors on their financial activity in Q3:

http://blogs.barrons.com/emergingmarketsdaily/2014/07/02/tsmc-apple-propels-strong-q3-jpm-raises-estimates/
Quote:


> According to analysts Gokul Hariharan, JJ Park and Rahul Chadha, the strong revenue momentum in the second half is likely to come from orders from Apple:
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> We believe TSMC should see a very aggressive ramp up of 20nm revenues in 3Q14, with wafer out for Apple rising from 30-40k wfpq to 120-130k wfpq, with quite high yields of a process at such early stage of ramp up.
> 
> Given the staggered launch of new Apple products ( iPhones in September, iPads in 4Q14 and a potential larger iPad in 1H15) which will all migrate to 20nm application processors at TSMC, we expect the strength for 20nm products to continue into 4Q14.
> 
> We are expecting the wafer consumption from Apple to rise to 150-160k wfpq in 4Q14. In addition, 20nm wafer orders for other leading edge customers (Xilinx, *AMD*, Qualcomm) should also start from late 3Q14 onwards, driving 20nm revenue contribution to 20%+ in 4Q14.
Click to expand...

AMD huh? In Q3/4 huh? That looks straight as expected by AMD's GPUs since they are due for a release not before Q1 or Q2 2015.

But NVIDIA? What are they doing in the shadows?


----------



## WiLd FyeR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Are people still seriously thinking an 880 won't be faster than a 780 Ti?
> 
> Do you really think Nvidia is that stupid?


Maybe the 8 series will perform the same but more on the energy efficient side. It's all speculations thus far until it comes out.


----------



## Threx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiLd FyeR*
> 
> Maybe the 8 series will perform the same but more on the energy efficient side. It's all speculations thus far until it comes out.


Still wouldn't make sense. Let's say suppose I've had a 780 Ti for a few months. If the 880 comes out in a few months and has the same performance, is there any reason I would want it? Would the lower power consumption save me money in the long run compared to the losses I would take by selling the 6-8 month old 780Ti?

880 being faster makes all the sense in the world. It would make everyone want to upgrade.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiLd FyeR*
> 
> Maybe the 8 series will perform the same but more on the energy efficient side. It's all speculations thus far until it comes out.


"Hey guys! We came out with our new graphics card line! It's so exciting! It performs the same as the ones you have already, but it will save you a few cents on your monthly electric bill! Buy our stuff!"


----------



## WiLd FyeR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> "Hey guys! We came out with our new graphics card line! It's so exciting! It performs the same as the ones you have already, but it will save you a few cents on your monthly electric bill! Buy our stuff!"


Aahaha.. don't forget, you will only need one 6 pin PCI cable. And maybe a shorter card as well for those mini atx builds.


----------



## fateswarm

But it may be shorter too


----------



## WiLd FyeR

Then once AMD does something about the 8 series cards. NVidia will put a *"Ti"* next to the 8 series name


----------



## flopticalcube

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> "Hey guys! We came out with our new graphics card line! It's so exciting! It performs the same as the ones you have already, but it will save you a few cents on your monthly electric bill! Buy our stuff!"


It will obviously be at least a little better in terms of performance. Power savings by itself will be small although energy consumption can impact in other ways... smaller power supplies, more case choices, less need for sound reduction, smaller rads in loops, etc.. all of which contributes to both the initial outlay as well as the ongoing costs of operating a PC. Dropping a card's per watt performance by 50% like the 750ti did can make a big impact on the overall system.

That said.... I'm looking for some big performance numbers in the mid-range cards.


----------



## Robertdt

I would like to see PC consumers start being more discerning in what they buy, both in the hardware and video game realms. Instead of just pre-purchasing every lop of hyper-trailer crap shoveled out by EA and Ubisoft, or spending 800 dollars for a GPU that will give you a whole 15 more frames than the prior gen card, perhaps start deciding that you won't just purchase something because a company is selling it.

People never used to PRE-purchase games before, we actually used to get FREE DEMOS not even a decade ago (e.g., Battlefield 2 demo, Crysis demo), and you bought the games because the DEMO proved they were good, not the trailer made them look good.

The pendulum has swung too far in the favor of corporations not having to produce quality for a good price.

When people played demos before buying games, we got better games.


----------



## fateswarm

Pre-purchasing is not as big as you imply. Demos aren't a thing because traditional installations aren't a big thing. There's piracy and most money is made through monthly fees and other transactions.


----------



## iSlayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> What are you talking about? The price is abysmal and only lunatics get them. Even businesses wouldn't.


Oh I know that, the other person didn't.

Businesses that let their IT department decide the workstations need them probably go out of business. No one with a need for workstation performance doesn't buy a workstation GPU because of its specialized drivers, support and above all precision.

A program that produces incorrect results twice as fast is infinitely slower.
- John Osterhout
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Are people still seriously thinking an 880 won't be faster than a 780 Ti?
> 
> Do you really think Nvidia is that stupid?


Honestly, I'm not too sure at the moment.

This is the company that thought consumers would rush to the shelves to buy a three grand GPU with almost identical performance to vastly cheaper alternatives. Putting out a next gen flagship with the same performance as the last seems less crazy in comparison.

Who knows what half-baked scheme they'll come with after their next rip. Maybe paying for driver updates?


----------



## Robertdt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Pre-purchasing is not as big as you imply. Demos aren't a thing because traditional installations aren't a big thing. There's piracy and most money is made through monthly fees and other transactions.


There's always someone to argue with you even when you advocating for something that would affect the PC gaming community positively.


----------



## erocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Are people still seriously thinking an 880 won't be faster than a 780 Ti?
> 
> Do you really think Nvidia is that stupid?


Do you have to ask?


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robertdt*
> 
> There's always someone to argue with you even when you advocating for something that would affect the PC gaming community positively.


That's great and all, but what does it have to do with the gtx880 launch other than your flimsy sham to sneak your off topic thoughts into this thread?


----------



## Robertdt

I'm not going to argue with you or your petty insults. My comment is related to purchasing philosophy for GPUs and is actually in keeping with other comments in the thread.


----------



## bhav

Your comment was mainly to do with games, not just hardware. You know some people need better hardware to be able to play at higher resolutions / multiple monitor setups right?

And Nvidia don't make poor quality stuff.


----------



## WiLd FyeR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> That's great and all, but what does it have to do with the gtx880 launch other than your flimsy sham to sneak your off topic thoughts into this thread?


Ahahah I know right.. Was a weird post but I guess thats how he views rumors.


----------



## Robertdt

Ok people who have now spent 5+ posts complaining about my one (at most) semi-off topic post. Very simply:

I am saying that PC gamers should be more discerning in their buying choices and not just buy whatever companies, whether GPU or gaming, decide to sell.

This idea is related to several surrounding posts.

I add an example related to game demos vs. pre-purchasing to illustrate that there is a correlation between a reduction in game quality and willingness to buy (i.e., pre-purchase) regardless of quality.


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> But NVIDIA? What are they doing in the shadows?


Let's hope they start working on it in january 2015







January 1 production starts ! lez go aha


----------



## JoHnYBLaZe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BBEG*
> 
> If a 780 Ti is slightly faster than my 680s in SLI, and the 880 is _likely_ to be faster than a 780 Ti, then moving from SLI 680 to SLI 880 should be quite an improvement for me as well. It'll work wonders driving a certain soon-to-release 1440 monitor that would choke my GK104's.
> I do agree with your logic re: selling the Ti's for the 880s vs waiting.
> 
> I won't be waiting if the first leaked reviews are consistent with the current chatter. On my current power supply I top out at 500-530W from the wall with GPUs at 1.212V and 2600k at 1.4V while benching. If GM204 does in fact let an 880 run faster than a 780 Ti, and does so at the same or less power draw as my current GPUs, then it's a no-brainer for me. I already have the headroom on the PSU and will be watercooling, so I can't think of a reason at all not to grab me some Classified's and start bumping up the voltage.
> 
> (My debate is more on the CPU side and whether to jump on Haswell-E early or wait... I'm a little miffed about the 5930K not being 8-core. The PCI lane differences between 5820K and 5930K, miniscule differences though they are, are icing on the indecision cake.)


I can't buy the 880 right away with the shenanigans nvidia pulled last time, I don't want an 880 if a Ti or whatever more powerful version is going to be released soon after

880 will surely be faster than a Ti, knowing nvidia however, not by much

They've also come out and claimed the prices would be reasonable, but what this all really says to me is that the 880 will really be what the 870 SHOULD be, and of course, they've got something else waiting


----------



## BBEG

Keep in mind that from my position, 2x 880s is a huge upgrade over 2x 680s. It's essentially more than 4x what my 680s can push if it only _equals_ the 780 Ti, nevermind exceeds it. And if it's providing that much performance for the same or _less_ power draw, that's an even bigger win for me: I can push an ROG Swift quite nicely and will have the PSU headroom for overclocking Classy versions.

Remember, whole new architecture from the bottom on up. Nvidia can't really repeat their 700 series launch with the 800 series.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> Let's hope they start working on it in january 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> January 1 production starts ! lez go aha


I was thinking it's more likely they are included in that example parenthesis that had AMD in it, but the corporate analysts didn't care to mention.

Also, why do people believe the conjecture early 2015 will have 16nm? TSMC and corporate analysts clearly indicate they are full-on 20nm.


----------



## bhav

Well, 20 nm then if that's the next GPU die shrink, I kept reading that 20 nms being skipped though and they're going onto 16 nm.

And not early 2015, more like late 2015 / 2016.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> Well, 20 nm then if that's the next GPU die shrink, I kept reading that 20 nms being skipped though and they're going onto 16 nm.


This is nothing more than speculation run wild. People took a vague statement about issues with 20nm, combined with a statement that TSMC was making a lot of 20nm SoC chips, and assumed with no justification whatsoever that there will be no 20nm GPUs.

It's completely bogus, but it's been echo-chambered into something that people "know."

I still expect 20nm Maxwell this fall. TSMC's production issues have been resolved, and they've been going full steam ahead for a while now. Yes, there was a delay. That's why 20nm Maxwell wasn't out this spring. But the 800 series will be 20nm. TSMC is ready, it has always been Nvidia's plan, re-designing away from 20nm to 28nm would be a major headache. The 750Ti was very clearly a test piece, to check out the new architecture on an existing node before the shrink. The existence of a test piece does not mean they're abandoning 20nm.


----------



## fateswarm

Concerning Spring 2014 for 20nm it's not TSMC's/20nm's fault. They generally do not release that early since their last major release (of a whole line of products). If you plot a graph of major releases in the past, it's clearly revealed that AMD is due for a major iteration after Q1/2 2015 and NVIDIA at least in Q4 2014.

AMD checks out on that limitation since their management confirmed they stay as they are for 2014.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Concerning Spring 2014 for 20nm it's not TSMC's/20nm's fault. They generally do not release that early since their last major release (of a whole line of products). If you plot a graph of major releases in the past, it's clearly revealed that AMD is due for a major iteration after Q1/2 2015 and NVIDIA at least in Q4 2014.
> 
> AMD checks out on that limitation since their management confirmed they stay as they are for 2014.


? I'm fairly sure there has been a vast amount of yield issues and drawing boards involved so not sure how you've come to that but carry on


----------



## AK-47

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strider49*
> 
> I've been building my first gaming PC for the last couple of months. The only two components missing are the graphics card and the monitor. I wanted to couple a Matrix 780 Ti to the ROG Swift, but Maxwell is around the corner and I don't know what to do anymore. I could wait, but I need a graphics card to be able to play BF3, BF4, the Witcher saga and some more AAA and Indie titles during this summer.
> 
> So, should I buy a used AMD card and then sell it right before Maxwell kicks in, or should I get a mid-low end NVIDIA (750 Ti, 660, 660 Ti, 760, 770)? What I want, of course, is to lose the least money possible... but I really have to make a purchase before Maxwell, otherwise I can't use my machine for gaming during summer holiday (I'm in college, so I don't have that much time to game during the rest of the year and I really have to make my holiday worth it).


Get SLI R9 290's and you should be good for at least 4 years at 4K


----------



## bhav

If you want the ROG swift or any other Gsync monitor, you'll want an Nvidia card though.


----------



## Bluemustang

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AK-47*
> 
> Get SLI R9 290's and you should be good for at least 4 years at 4K


What is SLI 290s?


----------



## V1ct1m1z3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bluemustang*
> 
> What is SLI 290s?


You know what he meant









I cant wait to upgrade these 660s! Im just hoping Nvidia has reasonable prices of the 800 series at release.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bluemustang*
> 
> What is SLI 290s?


Odd...

There's a 280, a 285, and a 295, but not a 290. What happened to that one?


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Odd...
> 
> There's a 280, a 285, and a 295, but not a 290. What happened to that one?


the cards with 5 instead of a 0 at the end are 55nm products while 280, 260 etc. are 65nm products.


----------



## AK-47

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bluemustang*
> 
> What is SLI 290s?


Damn. such a noob mistake by me
You know I meant CF lol


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> ? I'm fairly sure there has been a vast amount of yield issues and drawing boards involved so not sure how you've come to that but carry on


Nice arrogant response without getting the point. It's meant, whatever delay they had or, they didn't, it doesn't matter now since they would never release something earlier than Q4 2014, or Q1/2 2015 in the case of AMD.

Also the news of delays have been greatly exaggerated, TSMC have reported them themselves last year and again themselves now say they issues are gone now.

But the naysayers keep calling doomsday scenarios. It appears it sells current NVIDIA (or AMD) models.


----------



## Silent Scone

How is that arrogant??? In you saying they don't release that early, the only reason NV _have_ those products is because of lack of pleasing results.


----------



## motherpuncher

So is there any chance that the 870 and 880 are maxwell cards, then they just rebrand the 860 from the 780? Sort of like what AMD with their current line up? I would certainly love to get a rebranded 780 to 860 for like $300!


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *motherpuncher*
> 
> I would certainly love to get a rebranded 780 to 860 for like $300!


An R9 290?


----------



## Mand12

It seems incredibly unlikely that there will be any rebrands in the 800 series.


----------



## fateswarm

Actually I like his point. We never talk about it and it may not be very likely. But it's a potential, and who knows, they might have to dump all the GK110s not sold.

It's actually more possible than I implied now that I think of it.


----------



## amstech

Haswell-E + GTX 870 might be my next build and damn, its been awhile.


----------



## Mand12

But...the whole point of 800 is that it's Maxwell. These wouldn't be Maxwell. Talk about brand confusion?

Seems like not Nvidia's style.


----------



## fateswarm

Is it? It may be, I don't know.

Wait. 700 had Fermi too.


----------



## motherpuncher

I would definitely consider it (r9 290), but I recently bought Gsync and I really enjoy it, so I'll be sticking with the green team at least one more generation before considering a bump to 4k.


----------



## motherpuncher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> But...the whole point of 800 is that it's Maxwell. These wouldn't be Maxwell. Talk about brand confusion?
> 
> Seems like not Nvidia's style.


Yeah that's why I asked. I just wondered maybe with all the talk about is it 28 or 20nm, maybe the 800 series could see the top two be 28nm Maxwell, with the lower cards being the rebrands, then later they release the full line of Maxwell 20nm, 900 series. I guess we'll find out soon enough!


----------



## flopticalcube

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *motherpuncher*
> 
> Yeah that's why I asked. I just wondered maybe with all the talk about is it 28 or 20nm, maybe the 800 series could see the top two be 28nm Maxwell, with the lower cards being the rebrands, then later they release the full line of Maxwell 20nm, 900 series. I guess we'll find out soon enough!


Not likely as the low-end 750ti is already 28nm Maxwell. There is no need for further rebrands if they can knock out top spec cards in 28nm Maxwell as well.


----------



## Strider49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AK-47*
> 
> Get SLI R9 290's and you should be good for at least 4 years at 4K


Ahah, 290 SLI.







I wouldn't make such a statement, we never know what the future will bring us. My guess is that two 290s won't have the muscle nor the VRAM required to keep rocking at 1440p with all settings cranked up to the maximum for that long, let alone 4K, but one never knows. Nevertheless, I would never make such an investment when new cards are around the corner, promising more performance at a lower cost and with an equal or lower TDP. I feel it isn't a wise thing to do. And I'll need a NVIDIA card for G-Sync.
Worst case scenario, the 880 has a 256-bit bus and is only a 10-15% faster than a 780 Ti. In that case, I might even grab a used custom 780 Ti, watercool and OC it, who knows.

Btw, that guy ended up selling the 290 Tri-X OC for 295€. I thought it wasn't a good enough deal for me... My plan now is to buy an ASUS 760 DirectCU II OC and wait until the end of Q1 2015 (or the end of February, when Witcher 3 is out) to make (or not) the jump into Maxwell.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strider49*
> 
> Worst case scenario, the 880 has a 256-bit bus and is only a 10-15% faster than a 780 Ti.


I still don't understand how people think this is even remotely reasonable.


----------



## Strider49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> I still don't understand how people think this is even remotely reasonable.


We'll never know until the real specs and reviews are out. I'm expecting a 20-25% increase in performance (at least!), but I'll wait for the reviews to make my conclusions.


----------



## kingduqc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> I still don't understand how people think this is even remotely reasonable.


Is there anything the competition has to offer for the next months? Nope. The 780ti are already the fastest gpu and they are going to sell a gpu 200$ cheaper and 20% faster how is that a bad deal? It's not worst and there is nothing better out there..

I mean, if AMD released a gpu 50% faster today and then Nvidia does this move it would be terrible but really they are not forced into releasing the big guns and if the yields are not there yet they certainly won't because it's a company and they want more money.I still don't understand how people think this is even remotely not reasonable.


----------



## spqmax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Strider49*
> 
> We'll never know until the real specs and reviews are out. I'm expecting a 20-25% increase in performance (at least!), but I'll wait for the reviews to make my conclusions.


I'm relatively new to the pc hardware scene, but has this been done before? I mean has there been a new entry level card surpassing a last gen flagship by that much, at a much lower price? (not bashing, genuinely asking







)


----------



## mcg75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spqmax*
> 
> I'm relatively new to the pc hardware scene, but has this been done before? I mean has there been a new entry level card surpassing a last gen flagship by that much, at a much lower price? (not bashing, genuinely asking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


No, it hasn't. Not with an entry level card at least.

Last generation had the gtx 680 beating the gtx 580 by about 30%. The 670 beat it by about 20%.

Normally a mid-range card of the next generation will equal the performance of the flagship of the last generation but with much lower power usage.

The 660 Ti was a match for the gtx 580.


----------



## BeerPowered

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spqmax*
> 
> I'm relatively new to the pc hardware scene, but has this been done before? I mean has there been a new entry level card surpassing a last gen flagship by that much, at a much lower price? (not bashing, genuinely asking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


AMD 5800 series was a huge increase over its previous Gen. 8800GT was a huge increase in DX10 games over the AMD Flagship at the time, there are plenty of examples.


----------



## NABBO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> the cards with 5 instead of a 0 at the end are 55nm products while 280, 260 etc. are 65nm products.


Also GTX260 core 216 using 55nm gpu


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NABBO*
> 
> Also GTX260 core 216 using 55nm gpu


True but then again the 216 core version should have been called GTX 265









260 192 core and 260 216 core make little sense.

E: actually I do think that the first 216 cores were still 65nm. They were later moved to 55nm. Took a couple of months for the 55nm 216 cores to appear.


----------



## NABBO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> E: actually I do think that the first 216 cores were still 65nm. They were later moved to 55nm. Took a couple of months for the 55nm 216 cores to appear.


yes, model 216 core 65 and 55nm.









I had XFX GTX 260 216 BE 65nm, and after GAINWARD GTX 260 216 55nm GS

55nm better overclocking

OC core @ 750MHz , 65nm max OC core @ 710Mhz


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NABBO*
> 
> yes, model 216 core 65 and 55nm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had XFX GTX 260 216 BE 65nm, and after GAINWARD GTX 260 216 55nm GS
> 
> 55nm better overclocking
> 
> OC core @ 750MHz , 65nm max OC core @ 710Mhz


I only have a 65nm 192 core (and a bare PCB evga 285) in my collection. And iirc my 260 also maxed out at 710mhz.



Dunno if the 260 still works though.


----------



## fateswarm

The Alatar museum of GPUs. Opening near Helsinki soon!


----------



## NABBO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> I only have a 65nm 192 core (and a bare PCB evga 285) in my collection. And iirc my 260 also maxed out at 710mhz.
> 
> 
> 
> Dunno if the 260 still works though.












XFX BE

http://abload.de/image.php?img=immagine1kk7o.jpg

best overclock for the memory GDDR3 = 2450MHz
this model have the same memory GTX 280/285


----------



## bhav

Yummy, I have to sell my old ones to put towards new ones.


----------



## Silent Scone

Ah dear. If only i'd kept my previous cards. I'd have no where to keep them.

Is that a 3870 I see hiding there?

Kill it, kill it with FIRE


----------



## JoHnYBLaZe

Seriously doubt the 880 or whatever "flagship" will be significantly faster than the Ti

Especially with all this bologna Nvidia's been talking about better pricing

No doubt they have a GPU hiding somewhere aimed at 4k, but this is they're ace in the hole

To be released sometime later and with a steep "nvidia tax"


----------



## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> No, it hasn't. Not with an entry level card at least.
> 
> Last generation had the gtx 680 beating the gtx 580 by about 30%. The 670 beat it by about 20%.
> 
> Normally a mid-range card of the next generation will equal the performance of the flagship of the last generation but with much lower power usage.
> 
> The 660 Ti was a match for the gtx 580.


660ti beats gtx580 at 1080p and it has *half the bandwidth* . I thought thats worth pointing out as ppl seem concerned about the gtx 880 having 256mb memory bandwidth.


----------



## NABBO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wirerat*
> 
> 660ti beats gtx580 at 1080p and it has *half the bandwidth* .


not really ...

GTX 580 have 33% + of bandwidth


----------



## Mand12

Bus width and bandwidth are two different things.


----------



## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NABBO*
> 
> not really ...
> 
> GTX 580 have 33% + of bandwidth


Double the bus width. Yea


----------



## NABBO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wirerat*
> 
> Double the bus width. Yea


yes









660Ti 192bit + GDDR5 @6GHz = Bandwidth 144GB/sec

vs

580 384bit + GDDR5 @4GHz = Bandwidth 192GB/sec


----------



## NABBO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Kill it, kill it with FIRE


3870?

card disappointing.
performance dx9 equal to NV 9600GT gpu G94...
and dx10 sucks:

http://abload.de/image.php?img=immagineh7bo9l.png


----------



## mtcn77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JoHnYBLaZe*
> 
> Seriously doubt the 880 or whatever "flagship" will be significantly faster than the Ti
> 
> Especially with all this bologna Nvidia's been talking about better pricing
> 
> No doubt they have a GPU hiding somewhere aimed at 4k, but this is they're ace in the hole
> 
> To be released sometime later and with a steep "nvidia tax"


750ti can match gtx 660's performance in complex scenes which matter more in order to keep minimum frames up. Notice the 660 has 50% more shaders. That would indicate any Maxwell gpu with 1920 cores(less than half of what they announced for 880) would offer equal performance to 780ti, so Nvidia has definitely elevated the standard this round.


----------



## Alatar

Actual A1 stepping GM200 chips being shipped:



https://www.zauba.com/import-gm200-hs-code.html


----------



## i7monkey

What do you think the price for GM200 will be Alatar?

They won't go nuts again, will they?

Would be awesome if a GM200 880 went for $499 again and a GM204 860 for $229.


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Actual A1 stepping GM200 chips being shipped:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.zauba.com/import-gm200-hs-code.html












Well... time to sell my 780.


----------



## Silent Scone

Cannot be long now then


----------



## Luck100

Valued at 22,245 INR = $370 on that import manifest. I guess we can take that as wholesale value, without retail margin, sales tax, VAT, shipping, etc. So probably best case is $499 retail for that card...whichever one it is.


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Actual A1 stepping GM200 chips being shipped:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.zauba.com/import-gm200-hs-code.html


Hmm could this be like fermi to kepler in the mid range cards? <3 860 with the performance of a 780-780ti and that'll be awesome and the high end cards with the difference from 770 to 780-780ti being like 30% improvement over the 770? (i dont' actually know the numbers) I HAVE HOPES considering it's like 5 months away


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> What do you think the price for GM200 will be Alatar?
> 
> They won't go nuts again, will they?
> 
> Would be awesome if a GM200 880 went for $499 again and a GM204 860 for $229.


Well obviously both AMD and Nvidia want to have all their cards priced at $10K while at the same time selling an endless amount of units and getting close to 100% marketshare...

Honestly though it depends entirely on what NV wants to do with it. The difference between AMD and Nvidia pricing is that Nvidia doesn't have to push for higher marketshare. Also depends a lot on how many orders they have for the HPC market. With GK110 they had way more than before with Oakridge taking tens of thousands of chips etc.

And then you have to consider what's on the market when GM200 could be released. So the real answer to that question is that not even Nvidia knows.

My guess would be that if AMD doesn't have anything matching/close out at that point or for a long while you'll see a Titan 2 and some geforce cards a few months later. If AMD does have something on the market at that point you'd probably see a normal GTX launch first.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Cannot be long now then


First GM204 listings on zauba were in march iirc. So a listing there doesn't mean that launch is imminent... Could be a while.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luck100*
> 
> Valued at 22,245 INR = $370 on that import manifest. I guess we can take that as wholesale value, without retail margin, sales tax, VAT, shipping, etc. So probably best case is $499 retail for that card...whichever one it is.


Nothing being shipped pre-release as testing units matters when it comes to pricing.

Also these are just chips, not cards.


----------



## Silent Scone

I didn't look at the quantity either lol. I'm in no rush for these any who. All money towards X99


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luck100*
> 
> Valued at 22,245 INR = $370 on that import manifest. I guess we can take that as wholesale value, without retail margin, sales tax, VAT, shipping, etc. So probably best case is $499 retail for that card...whichever one it is.


Even if that was the entire GPU and no other manufacturing was needed, ain't no way nvidia is only going to take a 26% margin on their product...not to mention they have to upsell it to the vendor to distribute it, so vendors like ASUS, MSI would all fall in to the category as 'middlemen'... I would imagine those are engineering samples for another product. They also won't just order 2 or 3 of them....
I've seen large purchase order's for a major fortune 100 company, they're usually done in bulk, like 12k, 18k products per order....and typically around $1/4-$4mil...


----------



## Luck100

Yes, I said best case $499. Meaning impossible that it can be any less than that. No limit to how much higher it could actually be.


----------



## melodystyle2003

Is there any chance to see them available this September?


----------



## Mand12

Chance? Sure.

There's no way to know when it will arrive.


----------



## Icekilla

How much will the GTX 870 cost?


----------



## flopticalcube

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Icekilla*
> 
> How much will the GTX 870 cost?


More than an 860, less than an 880.


----------



## curly haired boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flopticalcube*
> 
> More than an 860, less than an 880.


technically correct!


----------



## flopticalcube

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curly haired boy*
> 
> technically correct!


The best kind of correct.... (apologies to any Futurama fans out there).


----------



## Icekilla

That was SOOOOO useful! Thanks!

...not ¬¬


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Icekilla*
> 
> ...not ¬¬


Well, there just isn't any release information at this point.


----------



## JoHnYBLaZe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtcn77*
> 
> 750ti can match gtx 660's performance in complex scenes which matter more in order to keep minimum frames up. Notice the 660 has 50% more shaders. That would indicate any Maxwell gpu with 1920 cores(less than half of what they announced for 880) would offer equal performance to 780ti, so Nvidia has definitely elevated the standard this round.


So your saying the 880 has a possibility to double 780ti performance?

That would be inconceivably awesome....

BUT...If I buy, I want the best card the 8 series has to offer and I don't trust Nvidia


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JoHnYBLaZe*
> 
> So your saying the 880 has a possibility to double 780ti performance?
> 
> That would be inconceivably awesome....
> 
> BUT...If I buy, I want the best card the 8 series has to offer and I don't trust Nvidia


maybe the 880 is the best the 8 series has to offer, but Maxwell might offer more with the 9 series. We don't know yet, but you may wait a long time. I don't think it matters when you buy your next GPU it only is the top dog until Nvidia releases something new.

I buy my next card to play October 2014 and early 2015 games


----------



## bhav

Anyone else want to wait for 9 series with me? Only because I have no more money left after ordering my monitor, keyboard, and now PSU too QQ.

I'm gonna have to bleed my 680s dry.


----------



## fateswarm

GM200 is supposed to be a lowbie chip. right?


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> GM200 is supposed to be a lowbie chip. right?


No

"High end" chips:
GT200
GT200b
GF100
GF110
(GK100)
GK110
GM200


----------



## i7monkey

Hopefully they do this:

GTX 860 GM204
GTX 880 GM200

GTX 980 GM210 (GM200 refresh), like they did with the 480 and 580.

No more Kepler BS!


----------



## fateswarm

That's some weird naming. First the 4 then the 0.


----------



## bhav

That's another reason to wait till the 9 series, if they redo what they did with Kepler.


----------



## JoHnYBLaZe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> maybe the 880 is the best the 8 series has to offer, but Maxwell might offer more with the 9 series. We don't know yet, but you may wait a long time. I don't think it matters when you buy your next GPU it only is the top dog until Nvidia releases something new.
> 
> I buy my next card to play October 2014 and early 2015 games


Best 8 series card is not until AMD releases, we know how this goes...

I know what you mean about the upgrade cycle, but I waited and ended up with 780ti instead of a $650

I'm not waiting for 9 series to upgrade, 780ti won't be worth much at that point


----------



## MeanBruce

Nope, cannot afford to wait on the 900series, 28nm or 20nm or the latest rumor 14nm GTX980, been waiting 4years for a new GPU bought a very inexpensive GTX760 as a placeholder (after the AMD6870 just burned up playing BioShock Infinite at 2560x1440) until Maxwell arrives in any form will be welcome.

Never had a nice GPU in my life, so planning on finally experiencing what everyone here is always talking about high FPS, low temps and noise, that costs real money, thinking the EVGA GTX880Ti KingPin Edition at $849 will work out just fine for the next four years.

Considering running both fans on the card using an Aquaero 6 XT and a mini-pwr adapter and separate designated channel so able to create a working profile for the KPE with fans dialed down to 10% or 5% much lower than the EVGA PCB will allow.

That will work, maybe, in theory it should anyway...









Picked up BioShock Infinite at the Steam Summer Sale for $7.49, cheeeeep









..


----------



## jdstock76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JoHnYBLaZe*
> 
> Wonder how many people are going to wait on the 880 after what happened with the 7 series
> 
> I like the fact the 8 series will probably run cooler, use less power and heat, my 780ti's are space heaters....
> 
> Also logic tells me I could probably get more money for my Ti's by selling them for the 880, instead of waiting for the 980's


Not likely since the last 3 780ti's I've seen on eBay I was bidding on go for around $550.


----------



## bhav

Oh yea it depends on if you need an upgrade now or not, or how much resale value your old cards still have.

I'm sure my 680s will last through another gen.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> I'm sure my 680s will last through another gen.


We already have gpu's that are alone, basically as powerful as 680 sli (15 smx, 384 bit vs 8 smx, 256 bit) - so if maxwell blows our socks off, even 680 users will be jumping for them!


----------



## Mand12

Yeah, I'm in the position of wanting to replace my ancient 5870, but it was only until about late winter before I both felt the need and had the budget for a major system upgrade. At that point there was still some rumor that Maxwell would happen in the spring, so it was only 2-3 months away. I figure I've waited four years, what's a few months? Then spring came and went, with Nvidia's GTC keynote saying a lot about Pascal and nothing about Maxwell, and I thought I'd wait for Computex to see if they said anything. Nope. But now, people are saying this fall, and it seems reasonable, so what's another 2-3 months?







At least I'll be able to time it with the G-Sync displays actually being available, and maybe Haswell-E should I go for that too. Okay, justifiable.

And then there's the GM200 shipping list info, but I don't care. Whatever the thing is that comes out this fall, I'm getting it. There's always going to be something better a year from whenever you buy something. Going up to Maxwell I hope will bode well for potential DX12 support (it was on the slide at the GTC presentation in March as a thing for Maxwell), and it isn't certain enough so that an EVGA step-up would be a good plan.

So, if GM204 comes out this fall, I'll be getting it. Simple as that.


----------



## Cyro999

DX12 is backwards compatible, at least the most important parts


----------



## fateswarm

They would not release games that are only latest API version anyway, even if it weren't.


----------



## Yop

I'm quite sure I can hold out with the lady friends r9 290 until a hof 880 or hof version of the gm200 comes out.


----------



## JoHnYBLaZe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdstock76*
> 
> Not likely since the last 3 780ti's I've seen on eBay I was bidding on go for around $550.


Not sure you understand me....

Whatever I could get for them when the 880 releases will surely be more than when the 980 releases

Also $550 not too shabby for a price drop


----------



## Bluemustang

Can't wait till the 800s release. As long as the performance gains are close to where ive been hoping and heard here (30% give or take 5%) im getting one. Also going to mod a AIO cooler on it for my first time on a gpu. Gonna be sweet.

Between my new 4790k, my incoming antec kuhler dual rad AIO for the cpu and a new GTX 880 with a thermaltake AIO i'm looking at some sweet upgrades


----------



## Alvarez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Yeah, I'm in the position of wanting to replace my ancient 5870, but it was only until about late winter before I both felt the need and had the budget for a major system upgrade. At that point there was still some rumor that Maxwell would happen in the spring, so it was only 2-3 months away. I figure I've waited four years, what's a few months? Then spring came and went, with Nvidia's GTC keynote saying a lot about Pascal and nothing about Maxwell, and I thought I'd wait for Computex to see if they said anything. Nope. But now, people are saying this fall, and it seems reasonable, so what's another 2-3 months?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least I'll be able to time it with the G-Sync displays actually being available, and maybe Haswell-E should I go for that too. Okay, justifiable.
> 
> And then there's the GM200 shipping list info, but I don't care. Whatever the thing is that comes out this fall, I'm getting it. There's always going to be something better a year from whenever you buy something. Going up to Maxwell I hope will bode well for potential DX12 support (it was on the slide at the GTC presentation in March as a thing for Maxwell), and it isn't certain enough so that an EVGA step-up would be a good plan.
> 
> So, if GM204 comes out this fall, I'll be getting it. Simple as that.


It`s not coming this fall, there`s another Maxwell thread which says that Maxwell will be released in Q2 2015. At least that`s what i saw regarding actual Maxwell cards we`re waiting


----------



## Acidfix

Yeah, I was thinking about waiting as well. But since I'm only going to be upgrading to a 27" IPS 1440p Monitor and I wont be using 4k since you need a very large Monitor to even justify it. I decided to go with what is best now. I went for a Gigabyte 290 OC Edition. And it is pretty amazing. I was going to go with a 780 since I had seen some reviews on them and they are good. What changed my mind is the driver updates for the 290 and with 14.6 coming out of beta soon it will even be better.

It just sucks that Monitors cost so much. I mean $800 for a good 1440p Monitor? I really thought prices would have gone down in the last 4 years...

If anything I think I will be going with a new Tower and the 1440p Monitor. Since I've been rocking my Antec 900 for to long now. Then agian it is one of the best Towers if you run on Air. But I've been eyeing out this new Thermaltake Tower and it is gooooood lookin!

Anyway, good luck on playing the waiting game. I hope it's worth it for you!


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bluemustang*
> 
> Can't wait till the 800s release. As long as the performance gains are close to where ive been hoping and heard here (30% give or take 5%) im getting one. Also going to mod a AIO cooler on it for my first time on a gpu. Gonna be sweet.
> 
> Between my new 4790k, my incoming antec kuhler dual rad AIO for the cpu and a new GTX 880 with a thermaltake AIO i'm looking at some sweet upgrades


Sick built it sounds like









the 880, with 2560 would only be the difference from 780 to 780ti. Which is only like 20%. so ~25% from the 780ti... isn't much, like what 8-12fps?

Thats not much. not even compared to the last midranged card as the 680 beating the 580 by a good amount. I'd honestly like to see 2688 core (21 SMM) because atleast that is 35% faster than a TITAN non-black.

I'd be happy with performance like that. a (2176 cores) 870 that is 15% faster than a TITAN on 180w and (1920 core) (160w?) 860 ti that that is like as fast as a titan. honestly. anything in the lower end like a 1536 core 860 (130w?) and 1024 850 ti (90w)? and the 880 on 210w?

I sorta like that lineup because it'll still be rather low power


----------



## Astral Fly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alvarez*
> 
> It`s not coming this fall, there`s another Maxwell thread which says that Maxwell will be released in Q2 2015. At least that`s what i saw regarding actual Maxwell cards we`re waiting


This thread is about the medium sized Maxwell chip called GM204 which romours predict will arrive this fall as the Geforce 800 series. The other thread is about the big Maxwell chip called GM200 which likely will arrive sometime in 2015.


----------



## Alvarez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Astral Fly*
> 
> This thread is about the medium sized Maxwell chip called GM204 which romours predict will arrive this fall as the Geforce 800 series. The other thread is about the big Maxwell chip called GM200 which likely will arrive sometime in 2015.


Whoops, my bad... It was late night when i checked other thread, obviously i missed the parts where it says "TITAN II" for GM200


----------



## bhav

And don't forget when the big Maxwell comes out, the GTX 880 will get a clock speed bump, faster VRAM, and a rename to GTX 970, and cost half as much.

Then all the people who bought GTX880s will be dissapoint


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> And don't forget when the big Maxwell comes out, the GTX 880 will get a clock speed bump, faster VRAM, and a rename to GTX 970, and cost half as much.
> 
> Then all the people who bought GTX880s will be dissapoint


Congratulations on being textbook.


----------



## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> And don't forget when the big Maxwell comes out, the GTX 880 will get a clock speed bump, faster VRAM, and a rename to GTX 970, and cost half as much.
> 
> Then all the people who bought GTX880s will be dissapoint


nvidea only released the small kepler as 680 because it was faster than amds 7970(the ghz edition came later).

I expect it all depends on what amd releases. If nvidea can top it with the midrange chip thats what we will get again.


----------



## flopticalcube

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bluemustang*
> 
> Can't wait till the 800s release. As long as the performance gains are close to where ive been hoping and heard here (30% give or take 5%) im getting one. Also going to mod a AIO cooler on it for my first time on a gpu. Gonna be sweet.
> 
> Between my new 4790k, my incoming antec kuhler dual rad AIO for the cpu and a new GTX 880 with a thermaltake AIO i'm looking at some sweet upgrades


The AIO should keep things nice and cool. I have an Antec 620 on my son's 560ti (170W TDP) and the temps never go above 35C over ambient with a very heavy OC.


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wirerat*
> 
> nvidea only released the small kepler as 680 because it was faster than amds 7970(the ghz edition came later).
> 
> I expect it all depends on what amd releases. If nvidea can top it with the midrange chip thats what we will get again.


The issue with that is that unlike the last time around, where AMD were first to the market with 28nm, it seems like Maxwell will be out before AMD's competitor. How do Nvidia decide what to do then?

In light of what happened last time, I feel like Nvidia will still release the mid-range Maxwell as the top end 800 card for maximum profit and depending on AMD's response, we might see a big die 880 Ti or earlier-than-expected 980 to maintain the affordable performance crown or if AMD fail to threaten Nvidia's performance lead, we'll see GM200 locked to another Titan for some time.

I hope AMD continue to embrace larger die sizes, that was likely a major part of the problem with Tahiti's relative performance, AMD were too conservative on the die size.


----------



## Serandur

sorry, double post


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Not touching another card until DX12 comes out. 20nm GM210 GTX 980 in Q3/Q4 2015 it is.


This! I will Sli my 780 Ti and sit on them until DX 12 cards land.


----------



## bhav

Will GTX 980 / 970 be DX12 too?

I hope so too


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> Will GTX 980 / 970 be DX12 too?
> 
> I hope so too


I would imagine, I also would expect stacked VRAM as well, on top of other new tech goodies/features.


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> Will GTX 980 / 970 be DX12 too?
> 
> I hope so too


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> I would imagine, I also would expect stacked VRAM as well, on top of other new tech goodies/features.


I distinctly recall Nvidia/Microsoft stating DX12 would be supported on DX11 cards instead of being hardware-tied. Also, if the 980/970s are Maxwell, there would be no stacked RAM. Nvidia are saving that for Pascal.

See here:

http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/

"NVIDIA will support the DX12 API on all the DX11-class GPUs it has shipped; these belong to the Fermi, Kepler and Maxwell architectural families"


----------



## machinehead

Q4 for the 800series works out perfectly for me. My 1440p monitor is starving.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serandur*
> 
> I distinctly recall Nvidia/Microsoft stating DX12 would be supported on DX11 cards instead of being hardware-tied. Also, if the 980/970s are Maxwell, there would be no stacked RAM. Nvidia are saving that for Pascal.
> 
> See here:
> 
> http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/
> 
> "NVIDIA will support the DX12 API on all the DX11-class GPUs it has shipped; these belong to the Fermi, Kepler and Maxwell architectural families"


Yea, but the question is; will DX11 cards be able to take full advantage of DX12 features?


----------



## antonio8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serandur*
> 
> The issue with that is that unlike the last time around, where AMD were first to the market with 28nm, it seems like Maxwell will be out before AMD's competitor. How do Nvidia decide what to do then?
> 
> *In light of what happened last time, I feel like Nvidia will still release the mid-range Maxwell as the top end 800 card for maximum profit* and depending on AMD's response, we might see a big die 880 Ti or earlier-than-expected 980 to maintain the affordable performance crown or if AMD fail to threaten Nvidia's performance lead, we'll see GM200 locked to another Titan for some time.
> 
> I hope AMD continue to embrace larger die sizes, that was likely a major part of the problem with Tahiti's relative performance, AMD were too conservative on the die size.


I completely agree with this and if the rumors are true that the 880 (or 880ti) will be 20-30% than the 780ti and/or 300% better than a 750ti.

My opinion, this is the 600 series all over. I skipped the 700 series so i am due for an update.


----------



## zealord

by the time DX12 really matters you guys will upgrade again anyways









I don't expect any DX12 optimised games before 2016. I hope I am wrong though, but adapting new things always takes so long.


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> by the time DX12 really matters you guys will upgrade again anyways
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't expect any DX12 optimised games before 2016. I hope I am wrong though, but adapting new things always takes so long.


The one really exciting feature we know about DX12 is its reduction on CPU overhead and draw call limitations. It's essentially a hardware-agnostic equivalent to Mantle and I have a feeling Nvidia will want to promote it heavily to compete with Mantle.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serandur*
> 
> The one really exciting feature we know about DX12 is its reduction on CPU overhead and draw call limitations. It's essentially a hardware-agnostic equivalent to Mantle and I have a feeling Nvidia will want to promote it heavily to compete with Mantle.


Also core/thread utilization. My understanding is that DX 11 is natively limited to three cores/threads, and anything beyond that has to be added by developers.

Someone might have a more clear idea of it than I.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serandur*
> 
> The one really exciting feature we know about DX12 is its reduction on CPU overhead and draw call limitations. It's essentially a hardware-agnostic equivalent to Mantle and I have a feeling Nvidia will want to promote it heavily to compete with Mantle.


That is indeed a good point . I haven't thought about that, but I still think that DX12 will not be very important in 2015 and I certainly don't expect the 880 to be a card many Overclock.net users will have for a very long time









For me it wouldn't really matter if the 880 is DX12 or not. I am going to look at the performance (including secondary stuff like power draw, thermals, noise etc.) of the 880 and the price. One can always wait for something better and something better will always be on the horizon, but I am gaming in the present and when games like Witcher 3, The Division etc. are coming I don't want to wait for DX12 or a better GPU. I want to play the games then


----------



## SkullTrail

My next card if under $600. Nvidia should face much shame for the price inflation in recent years...


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> That is indeed a good point . I haven't thought about that, but I still think that DX12 will not be very important in 2015 and I certainly don't expect the 880 to be a card many Overclock.net users will have for a very long time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For me it wouldn't really matter if the 880 is DX12 or not. I am going to look at the performance (including secondary stuff like power draw, thermals, noise etc.) of the 880 and the price. One can always wait for something better and something better will always be on the horizon, but I am gaming in the present and when games like Witcher 3, The Division etc. are coming I don't want to wait for DX12 or a better GPU. I want to play the games then


I completely agree. The good news is Nvidia have already stated DX12 will work on all Fermi, Kepler, and Maxwell cards without need for an upgrade however.







A good point was brought up earlier in this thread about a potentially incomplete level of support, but the point remains that DX12 will probably still benefit those of us on older DX11 cards. I personally got the impression DX12 isn't doing anything linked to hardware beyond DX11 level and is just a collection of specific optimizations Microsoft could have done years ago, but didn't until Mantle got the party started. Personally, I'm not upgrading from my 780 until the 980 at the earliest and ideally, I'd love to hang on to the 780 until Pascal or AMD's stacked VRAM equivalent.


----------



## Alatar

The recent linustechtips live show has a nice snippet about NVidia wanting Linus for some secret briefing next monday or something.


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> The recent linustechtips live show has a nice snippet about NVidia wanting Linus for some secret briefing next monday or something.


Shield 2?

I don't think he'll get a review model like 2-3 months early. or give him much infomation untill they're ready to ship. I'm convinced it's for the shield 2.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deletive*
> 
> Shield 2?
> 
> I don't think he'll get a review model like 2-3 months early. or give him much infomation untill they're ready to ship. I'm convinced it's for the shield 2.


Closed doors briefings for press on products that are a couple of months away from launch do actually happen.

That said yeah, there's also the 2nd shield that's coming out at some point so it could just as well be that. However we're still pretty close to GM204 coming out so you never know.


----------



## zealord

lol I just watched that WAN show youtube video aswell and was hoping Nvidia is inviting him for Maxwell GPU related stuff and then you guys say it could be SHIELD 2


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> The recent linustechtips live show has a nice snippet about NVidia wanting Linus for some secret briefing next monday or something.


Good tidbit. Quakecon launch? /I-wish.


----------



## routek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkullTrail*
> 
> My next card if under $600. Nvidia should face much shame for the price inflation in recent years...


I think the 7970 started the jump. 6970 was $370. 7970 was $550+. AMD kept well under the $500 GTX 480 and 580 whether launching before or after.

After that, nvidia was always going to postion the big one above. Of course either company can do something different ,you can argue many aspects and sides.. I don't want to get into some AMD NVidia war.


----------



## nleksan

If I were a betting man, I would put my money back on, well, pretty much what everyone elsehas aalready theorized ad nauseum. It used to be that necessity was the mother of invention (innovation), but now it is competition that drives it forward. Consequently, what we see from Nvidia will be a direct result ofwhat AMD is ccapable of, or what they've done but not yet disclosed.
An important thing to remember is that not only is "technology" the single largest industry, but it is also far and away the most rife with industrial espionage. The amount of money spent on "security consultants" (ie spies) is reflected in theaamount spent on actual security. If AMD has something coming down the pipe, I guarantee you that Nvidia already knows exactly what it will be. I admit that Nvidia has some shadiness, but frankly so do AMD, but there's absolutely no way that NV would release the 800 series cards if they were not at least somewhat stronger than the competition they have already seen to be coming out in the 800 pproduct cycle
People seem to forget, constantly, that AMD/NV/Intel are businesses that exist to generate revenue, and not one is in any way shape or form "better" than the others when it comes to this (I don't mean their ability to generate revenue, because it's blatantly obvious who is better there), and frankly they don't really care what any of usthink so llong as we spend money on their products. The funniest thing to me is that "fanboys" are the ultimate "win" for a company because they have someone who they not only never need to pay but who is in fact paying THEM to advertise on their behalf, trash talk the other company(ies), and whose hilariously misplaced loyalty guarantees a customerno mmatter what the competition isable to pproduce or by how much their product lags behind the other's. This is why you see companies essentially spreading the fanboy virus as much as they can without breaking any kind of laws.
Now, the above may account for the overwhelmingly huge majority of fanboy-ism, and people who have "decided" to beloyal toone ccompany or another for such reasons ("you are stupid, I got 8 cores for $180 and you spent $500/$1000 and only got 6!", or "the 780Ti is stupid, I overclock by randomly banging on the keyboard and I got 4.07536 more frames per ssecond in this single benchmark which I am going to show you after removing all context and results that do not fit the conclusion I drew before I even owned tthe card! I win, you're stoopid!", "I am helping cure cancer because I sold my Porsche 911 GT2 to buy this setup of dozens of 15C/30T Xeon 4P custom servers with Tesla K40 compute cards and 768GB DDR3-1600RE, while your AMD chip is secretly fighting on behalf of cancer!", or the recent skull-crushing agony that is "haha you're so stupid, who in their right mind would ever buy a card with only 2/3/4GB of VRAM?!?! Everyone KNOWS that your Tri-SLI 670's/680's/770's or CFX 7950/7970/280X, or your 1/2/3-way SLI 780/780Ti's (or CFX 290/290X) will be hilariously horrendous at anything more demanding than Solitaire, because 3GB isn't enough to run 4K Ultra with 8xMSAA or 3x3 super-sampling and if you can't do that then you are a pathetic peon who is not worthy of posting on the same forum as myself! (ad nauseum, and add-nausea)"), and while every single one of us is biased to some degree (don't even say otherwise
.. Research has shown that those who actively state that they are unbiased actually show 33-50+ percent more bias when tested than those who admit that their bias exists), the absoluteKEY ddifference is how one comes to "acquire" said bias.
If you have been buying from one company for years, because every single item YOU have bought from them has met or exceeded thedemands placed upon it, and you have not once had a component they made break, then you absolutely are biased towards them, but it is also exactly how "bias" should form.
On the other hand, you have people who for whatever reason (insecurity, low self-esteem or self-worth, inferiority complex, narcissistic personality traits or disorder, or what I like to call being a "one-upper", amongst many other psychological root causes), will alwaysand only talk loudly and iincessantly about the positives of whatever it is they own while only talking about the "negatives" of what others own that's different from them. I am not talking about healthy debate, but rather those who go so far as to essentially (or actually) start creating "pros/cons" that don't actually exist, most infuriatingly, make statements extolling/deriding a product that they haven't and don't own, such as someone with a 780 who has not owned AMD since the 3xxx talking about how horrible the 290(X) is, or someone who owns a 7950 talking about howtthe 780Ti's are a joke because "for $500 I can get a 290X Lightning that'll overclock by (random number) and demolish your $800 card, and while you're unable to even play HL2 at 4K I will be able to run Crysis 3 on Ultra with 8xMSAA no problem, I will prove it (just wait for me to get my parents to buy me a 4K monitor 6 months from now to upgrade from 1080p) but meanwhile these specific benchmarks from a variety of different sites all show my 290X performing faster when OC'd than your box-overclocked 780Ti!", while failing to acknowledge that cherry picked benches are of zero value while failingto aacknowledge that the "enemy" card can be overclocked as well (I see this more often with people who are adamant that the 290X is everythingand then some that the 780Ti is, I am not picking on AMD even though I did find the 290X Lightning to be extremely disappointing even with a full coverage block attached with Fujipoly 17W/mk thermal pads and PK-3/GC-E pastes,ffalling well behind just one of my KPE's (running far from its highest OC, and on ambient, not chilled, water) at 1080p/1200p/1440p/1600p and 3840x1440p, yet where the 290X hit a wall fairly quickly, the KPE just keeps clocking higher and higher).
The whole use of "performance charts/graphs" from reviews, which have any kind of overclocking performance results (99.9pct of the time it's only the specific item being reviewed that has both stock and OC represented), really needs to stop unless the graph consists of true "like with like" with OC resultsffor each, a single game/program results chart is intentional misdirection in most cases, and more importantly the cards compared need to be the equivalent model line, because comparing say an MSI 290X LTG against a pure reference 780Ti says nothing, one being a custom designed card with a plethora of higher grade componentsaattached to a higher grade PCB with power phase quality and quantity drastically increased in part due to the tremendous amount of power required with even a mild overclock let alone the appetite growing to staggeringly heights once the voltage control is REALLY used...yet the 780Tiin this eexample is a reference design, no GPU pr0n under theheatsink atop the PCB, and excluding custom BIOS and such, no voltage control. Switch it around, however, with a 780Ti K|ngp|n review showing The OC results and the AMD 290X reference PCB card but with 3rd party cooler (Vapor-X?) to prevent throttling and provide the ground for a fairer comparison, and you get nothing but AMD's new dual duty marketing/finance department AKA fanboys from whatever "side" to do, well, nothing, just sit


----------



## curly haired boy

did i just see the guy above me hit the word-per-post limit?


----------



## machinehead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curly haired boy*
> 
> did i just see the guy above me hit the word-per-post limit?


IDK TLDR


----------



## USFORCES

II'm cconfused


----------



## nleksan

Mission succeeded!


----------



## Silent Scone

lol. Paragraphs dude!

Nice Brembo kit BTW


----------



## fateswarm

Linus, the Oprah of tech youtube.

Torvalds is the real Linus


----------



## bhav

Nvidia cant always beat AMD though (9700-9800 pro days, then Geforce 5800-5900 fail vs X1800-x1900).

That's when we all laugh at Nvidia.


----------



## curly haired boy

how hard is it to run AMD cards alongside dedicated nvidia physx these days? i know it used to be possible...


----------



## bhav

Almost impossible. The drivers that allow it are so out of date now.


----------



## curly haired boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> Almost impossible. The drivers that allow it are so out of date now.


dang. looks like i'm stuck with whatever nvidia releases, at whatever price...


----------



## bhav

Why is that a problem? Nvidia make great cards.


----------



## skruppe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> Why is that a problem? Nvidia make great cards.


They do, but high-end costs a lot more now than it used to (and I'm not just being nostalgic).


----------



## curly haired boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> Why is that a problem? Nvidia make great cards.


i'm happy with them, i'm just wary of getting gouged


----------



## Roelv

I believe high-end is also higher than it used to be with higher production cost. They could just as well mark their current mid-range as high-end without selling the real high-end.

For example look at the 8800 GTX, sure it was an amazing card when it released but it has a TDP of 155W which is less than the GTX 760. Don't you think they could have created something much faster than the 8800 GTX at that time with a higher TDP and price? That would have made the 8800 GTX look like mid-range as you can see with the GTX 760 now. The simple reason why they started creating faster and more expensive cards is because gaming demands have increased significantly, it has become a full-fledged hobby and we're willing spend the corresponding money for that.

Now what if they would label the GTX 880 as mid-range and label the high-end with a much faster card? Double the performance, double the price and double the TDP. Even if that can only be cooled with water, I bet lots of you would still buy it in favor of SLI setups. I even bet some would still go SLI so they can do 4K surround. If you have the cash, why not?

I got curious about the 8800 GTX because it's known for a giant jump in performance compared to the previous generation. Apparently it released in the same year as the 7900 GTX, so how is such a performance jump possible? Again it all makes sense when looking at the TDP, going from 84W to 155W. I bet there was also quite an increase in price.

*Conclusion:* Nvidia (and AMD) have been redefining high-end with more advanced cards, higher prices and higher TDP.


----------



## curly haired boy

well yeah but even if nvidia has the technological capability to release a doubling of performance every generation, they still couldn't charge double each time. they'd price themselves out of existence. some depreciation has to occur, and my concern is it's not generally happening.


----------



## bhav

Recent high end prices were all AMDs fault though due to the release price of the 7970.


----------



## Fickle Pickle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> Recent high end prices were all AMDs fault though due to the release price of the 7970.


You have to remember that as the cards get more powerful and the manufacturing processes get more advanced, the costs to manufacture alone will go up. High end NVIDIA cards are sold for about 2.5 times the cost to manufacture. The margin has seemingly gone up only a few percentage year after year, but at least according to 2009 and 2011 market research info, that's where it last stood. Remember, manufacturing costs also do not reflect payroll, advertising, R&D, legal, tax, shipping, and the cut retailers get. All of those costs rise as well year after year due to inflation and having so many companies having their hand in the cookie jar. So NVIDIA's and AMD's profit margin likely isn't as high as everybody on this board makes it out to be. Is it higher than before? Yes, but i hope everybody here understands costs always increase. Does it mean they are gouging? Depends on several factors people on this forum probably do not account for. Do I like higher costs for cards? No.

Reminder, I am not defending the increases, I just hope some people understand the true costs of doing business.


----------



## deafboy

Baby die or not, looking forward to it....


----------



## mistermenphis22

Guess its time to upgrade again


----------



## krel

I think there's a good possibility that 4K may actually encourage both Nvidia and AMD to step it up this year beyond the bare minimum they'd normally go for. At least, I hope so.


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krel*
> 
> I think there's a good possibility that 4K may actually encourage both Nvidia and AMD to step it up this year beyond the bare minimum they'd normally go for. At least, I hope so.


I doubt it, there is a change the 3200 core would and has been around for the longest time when it comes to rumors. So there is a good chance, but still doubt it.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krel*
> 
> I think there's a good possibility that 4K may actually encourage both Nvidia and AMD to step it up this year beyond the bare minimum they'd normally go for. At least, I hope so.


It should but unfortunately Nvidia's mentality is that for 4K and multi monitor support there is SLI. They demonstrate similar setups with Titan Black in tri or quad SLI. It would be nice though if they release a powerful enough card with plenty of VRAM that could provide the same performance with a dual card setup.


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krel*
> 
> I think there's a good possibility that 4K may actually encourage both Nvidia and AMD to step it up this year beyond the bare minimum they'd normally go for. At least, I hope so.


I got the impression AMD were stepping it up for 4K a bit with Hawaii. The 290s are comparitively inexpensive, have 64 ROPs, bridgeless crossfire, and come standard with 4 GBs of VRAM. Unfortunately that 512-bit memory bus seems more like cost-saving given the slower VRAM speeds and the results aren't revolutionary or anything, but it shows some promise of intent. The next truly major step is whenever either manufacturer get around to stacked VRAM.


----------



## mtcn77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serandur*
> 
> I got the impression AMD were stepping it up for 4K a bit with Hawaii. The 290s are comparitively inexpensive, have 64 ROPs, bridgeless crossfire, and come standard with 4 GBs of VRAM. Unfortunately that 512-bit memory bus seems more like cost-saving given the slower VRAM speeds andthe results aren't revolutionary or anything, but it shows some promise of intent. The next truly major step is whenever either manufacturer get around to stacked VRAM.


Yet, custom models can harness fast Hynix chips and can overclock to insane bandwidth amounts like 450 GB/s: that makes up for twice the necessary double precision render thoroughput required of 256 bit cards. In fact, that might entitle Hawaii series as the sole survivor at 128 bit texture formats(it should make up for so much visual galore, currently no other can contest AMD on that front.
I don't see your point. Reference models aren't expected to take the majority of the customer base, afaik.


----------



## $ilent

Looks like there is no reason to upgrade my 670 SLIs for Maxwell then...


----------



## fateswarm

People will get serious with 4K when it gives 60FPS, or more, in gaming. Right now it's mainly the venue of TV. Consoles could be related but they are way behind for now.


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtcn77*
> 
> Yet, custom models can harness fast Hynix chips and can overclock to insane bandwidth amounts like 450 GB/s: that makes up for twice the necessary double precision render thoroughput required of 256 bit cards. In fact, that might entitle Hawaii series as the sole survivor at 128 bit texture formats(it should make up for so much visual galore, currently no other can contest AMD on that front.
> I don't see your point. Reference models aren't expected to take the majority of the customer base, afaik.


Merely a caveat that the 290s' bandwidth advantage is generally more conservative than its bus width alone would suggest and the end result of Hawaii's improvements aren't a major breakthrough for 4K performance, though they are nice and useful nonetheless.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> People will get serious with 4K when it gives 60FPS, or more, in gaming. Right now it's mainly the venue of TV. Consoles could be related but they are way behind for now.


You can get 60 FPS with a good dual GPU setup. If maxwell flagships turn out to be considerably faster at a relatively low price such a setup could be more affordable while offering a good performance in upcoming games.


----------



## soulwrath

here are some benchmarks with single -> quad sli/xfire using 780/ti 290/x

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=384741


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pterois*
> 
> You can get 60 FPS with a good dual GPU setup.


Aye. I had it in mind but left it out of the text eventually. I meant for the general public, that could afford the setup, in monitor or GPU (usually singular GPU).


----------



## STIguy312

I'm hoping these will bring the prices down on the other cards. Hopes and dreams.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Aye. I had it in mind but left it out of the text eventually. I meant for the general public, that could afford the setup, in monitor or GPU (usually singular GPU).


Let's hope that we will be able to do dual GTX 880s or get a full GM 200 GTX Titan II for around $1000.


----------



## bhav

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *STIguy312*
> 
> I'm hoping these will bring the prices down on the other cards. Hopes and dreams.


They did last time, at least in the UK, plus MSI renamed all their lightnings to power editions and I got two of thse for a great price.

But now I'm waiting for an extra gen, unless GTX 780s magically drop jn price as low as £200.


----------



## mtcn77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serandur*
> 
> Merely a caveat that the 290s' bandwidth advantage is generally more conservative than its bus width alone would suggest and the end result of Hawaii's improvements aren't a major breakthrough for 4K performance, though they are nice and useful nonetheless.


I think you are overcompensating for the wrong deficiency. When Hawaii is compared to Tahiti, what strikes as Tahiti's bottleneck has never been bandwidth in the first place. They were first and foremost limited at the render output units that needed insane gpu overclocking to overcome that threshold. I'm talking about LN2 benchmarking range to utilize available bandwidth for typical texture format workload of console-ported games.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Looks like there is no reason to upgrade my 670 SLIs for Maxwell then...


You're kidding, right?


----------



## STIguy312

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> They did last time, at least in the UK, plus MSI renamed all their lightnings to power editions and I got two of thse for a great price.
> 
> But now I'm waiting for an extra gen, unless GTX 780s magically drop jn price as low as £200.


Still called lightening here in the US. At least that is what I see on Newegg. I doubt the 780's will drop that low anytime soon at least while they are still sold in retail. A local computer parts store has a GTX 580 for close to $600 when they have a GTX 780 priced lower.... My mind was blown when I walked passed the display. I understand it was a high end card a few years ago, but its old tech at this point. Corporate won't allow the store to lower the price so the salesman tells me.

Edit: Oh look they decided to lower the price.
http://www.microcenter.com/product/352442/VCGGTX580XPB_NVIDIA_GeForce_GTX_580_1536MB_GDDR5_PCIe_20_16x_Video_Card


----------



## soulwrath

LOL MC ftw... omg - they should be selling that for at least $200 and its PNY too jeeze


----------



## STIguy312

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulwrath*
> 
> LOL MC ftw... omg - they should be selling that for at least $200 and its PNY too jeeze


If not less than. Add 8% sales tax on top of that. At least to me that is high sales tax.


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> You're kidding, right?


What would I gain from maxwell? 10% maybe? Not worth £500 by a long shot


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> What would I gain from maxwell? 10% maybe? Not worth £500 by a long shot


You think Maxwell will be a 10% gain over a 670?

That's absurd.


----------



## bhav

No he thinks 10% over two 670s.


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> No he thinks 10% over two 670s.


Even 2-670s perform in the ballpark (+- 5%) of a single 780ti depending upon overclocks right? Aren't people speculating more than 10% for the 880 over the 780ti?

ETA: I'd agree going from SLI'd 670s to a 780ti probably doesn't make sense unless you just want a single card, but it is too soon to tell what kind of performance the 880 will offer.


----------



## krel

I certainly hope a single 880 > SLI'ed 670s.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krel*
> 
> I certainly hope a single 880 > SLI'ed 670s.


It should be no problem.


----------



## Threx

Assuming a 70% average SLI scaling, I'd estimate a single 880 to be about 20% faster than SLI 670.


----------



## cennis

From my experience with 690 and benchmarks from other's 780ti's

780ti overclocked = 690 = 2x underclocked 680s = 2x mild oc 670s

so most likely the stock 880 will be faster than any overclocked 2x 670s since it has to be faster than any (reasonably) overclocked 780ti.

EDIT: im talking synthetic benchmarks (almost perfect scaling), sli scaling issues will bring it too much variance.

680->780 was like a 50% increase in performance right?
maybe 880 will beat 780ti by the same margin?


----------



## deafboy

Depends on his clocks... but when I had my kingpin 780Ti they still didn't match my old 670SLI setup. So unless the 880 can match a 1300-1400MHz 780Ti then there won't be much of a boost.

Sometimes it's not just about raw horse power either. Will likely replace my 290s with the 880s or whatever makes the most sense in the line-up.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cennis*
> 
> From my experience with 690 and benchmarks from other's 780ti's
> 
> 780ti overclocked = 690 = 2x underclocked 680s = 2x mild oc 670s
> 
> so most likely the stock 880 will be faster than any overclocked 2x 670s since it has to be faster than any (reasonably) overclocked 780ti.
> 
> EDIT: im talking synthetic benchmarks (almost perfect scaling), sli scaling issues will bring it too much variance.
> 
> 680->780 was like a 50% increase in performance right?
> maybe 880 will beat 780ti by the same margin?


680 to 780 was something like 40% increase, so you could assume that same increase from 780 to 880. Which would make the 880 about 15% faster than a 780ti.


----------



## cennis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> 680 to 780 was something like 40% increase, so you could assume that same increase from 780 to 880. Which would make the 880 about 15% faster than a 780ti.


yea if thats the case then it would beat out any 670 SLI set up stock vs stock, overclocked vs overclocked.


----------



## bhav

Hmmmm, well maybe if one 880 is quite a bit better than two 680s, and depending on the purchase price to ebaying mine I might get one. Hmmmm, it depends. Would rather wait for the die shrinked version anyway.


----------



## twitchyzero

any updates from reliable sources? ie not WCCF?

timeframe and expected MSRP? 20nm? GM204 vs big Maxwell?

not that I'l be upgrading but it'll be nice to see nvidia come out with new stuff to come closer to affordable 4K gaming on a single GPU...not regurgitated material that they already made a killing on.

I'm sure the R&D on Kepler has already paid itself x9000....since they posted record quarter earnings.


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cennis*
> 
> From my experience with 690 and benchmarks from other's 780ti's
> 
> 780ti overclocked = 690 = 2x underclocked 680s = 2x mild oc 670s
> 
> so most likely the stock 880 will be faster than any overclocked 2x 670s since it has to be faster than any (reasonably) overclocked 780ti.
> 
> EDIT: im talking synthetic benchmarks (almost perfect scaling), sli scaling issues will bring it too much variance.
> 
> 680->780 was like a 50% increase in performance right?
> maybe 880 will beat 780ti by the same margin?


can't OC'd 760 beat stock 670's? so dual 760 can match a 780. so basically 20-30% more performance with a single 880


----------



## sausageson

Anyone think there will be a chance of them being around $400 on launch?


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sausageson*
> 
> Anyone think there will be a chance of them being around $400 on launch?


Not for the 880. but the 870 might be what we think the 880 will be so sorta.


----------



## i7monkey

Keep prices like they used to be!

GM204 GTX 860 $229
Cut down GM200 GTX 870 $349
Less cut down GM200 GTX 880 $499

Full chip GM210 GTX 980 $499


----------



## i7monkey

We've gotten so used to high prices that people are happy if GM204 sold for $499!


----------



## blackhole2013

After I just spent over 500 dollars for my gtx 780 4 months ago I will wait till 900 series maybe they will support 1440p 60fps in all games by then if not I will wait longer . I think a 780 is plenty for my 1080p set up for a while ...


----------



## Clocknut

I dont know man, if a Kaveri can power a 290X without bottleneck on mantle.

with DirectX12 coming(or the era of low level API), I think any i5 from 1155 and up can easily hold a pair of 880 SLI without bottleneck, may be even a pair GTX980(or GM210) without problems.

I guess those hex core socket 2011 users may never need to upgrade their CPU for a very long time lol


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> any updates from reliable sources? ie not WCCF?
> 
> timeframe and expected MSRP? 20nm? GM204 vs big Maxwell?
> 
> not that I'l be upgrading but it'll be nice to see nvidia come out with new stuff to come closer to affordable 4K gaming on a single GPU...not regurgitated material that they already made a killing on.
> 
> I'm sure the R&D on Kepler has already paid itself x9000....since they posted record quarter earnings.


It might not be true but there are rumors that Nvidia will be skipping 20nm going directly to 16nm. 28nm GM 204 will probably release sometime around October - November of this year with the GM 200 somewhere around mid-late 2015. Whether that will be on 16nm remains to be seen.


----------



## Silent Scone

I don't believe the skipping rumors for a second.


----------



## fateswarm

Everything is possible, but, if they skip, don't expect them that easily at Q1/2 2015 as some manufactured news claim. TSMC is full-on advertising 20nm now and the corporate news talk of a ramp up of revenue from it at Q3/Q4 and Q1/2, nothing on 16nm on that.

Chances are TSMC would not release it if 20nm wasn't profitable (to them and clients), but you never know if the margins aren't that much different, and since 16nm is not that much different from 20nm in this particular iteration.

But the big potential delay is a big counterargument. If 16nm goes something like Q1/2 2016, I doubt NVIDIA would hold that long so it's likely NVIDIA already prints on 20nm, if not shortly afterwards.


----------



## mtcn77

I don't suppose yesteryears research articles would be out of date.


Spoiler: http://www.cadence.com/Community/blogs/ii/archive/2013/08/12/memcon-panel-promises-and-pitfalls-of-3d-ic-memory-standards.aspx



Wide I/O, published Dec. 2011 by JEDEC, provides a 512-bit wide interface to memory and up to 17GBps. Wide I/O 2, now in development, ups the ante to 25.6GBps and 51.2GBps.
Hybrid Memory Cube (HMC), developed by Micron and now managed by the HMC Consortium, stacks four or eight TSV-bonded DRAM dies on top of a logic layer, claiming potential performance up to 320 GBps.
High Bandwidth Memory (HBM), an emerging JEDEC standard, leverages Wide I/O and TSV technology to reach speeds up to 256 GBps.


A panel discussion among senior engineers suggest hbm is viable up to 256gb/s while hmc is potent up to 320 gb/s. I hope at least they offer better power management since these don't seem to raise the performance watermark any higher.


----------



## fateswarm

Today's news that a TSMC 16nm FinFET chip may debut in 2015

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20140714PD210.html

I'm not sure though if they are too simplistic chips.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackhole2013*
> 
> After I just spent over 500 dollars for my gtx 780 4 months ago I will wait till 900 series maybe they will support 1440p 60fps in all games by then if not I will wait longer . I think a 780 is plenty for my 1080p set up for a while ...


If you just got your 780, it would probably be wise to wait until the 900 series drops. I went from 580>780 and never felt like I missed anything in terms of visually quality or performance @1200P.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I don't believe the skipping rumors for a second.


Nor do I.

Architectures and nodes are planned _years_ in advance. To think that both Nvidia and TSMC would scrap those plans because of a one-month delay is utterly ludicrous. The contracts involved are massive, aren't changed easily, and are part of a long-term strategy for both of them.

The other important consideration is that TSMC does not just do one thing at a time. Because of how far out their R&D and production plans go out, they could be actively running 28nm, finishing the last touches on new 20nm production, and working on prototype 16nm FINFET all at the same time. But every time any news whatsoever comes out, people jump onto it as proof that they're doing that and nothing else. It's just not the case.


----------



## fateswarm

Not 'could'. They do run old nodes. Intel is making the PCHs on old nodes for example.


----------



## Silent Scone

If this rumor had cropped this time last year it would be believable, but this late in the day and with the recent(ish) announcement of 20nm manufacture being made available outside of Apple contracts, it ties in nicely with other rumors from NV for Q1 2015 release on 20nm


----------



## StrongForce

to be honest I think if it was still 28nm it would have been released by now ! but I may be wrong


----------



## bhav

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> If you just got your 780, it would probably be wise to wait until the 900 series drops. I went from 580>780 and never felt like I missed anything in terms of visually quality or performance @1200P.


Imagine 2 x 680 > 3 x 980









Me wanty.


----------



## sockpirate

Is Nvidia forgoing a 700 series 90 card? 790?


----------



## bhav

No they aren't. That's just the Titan Z and it sucks.


----------



## sockpirate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> No they aren't. That's just the Titan Z and it sucks.


So the titan Z is the 790 ?


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sockpirate*
> 
> So the titan Z is the 790 ?


yes







but it's not mainly for us. it's basically for cuda work in realtime and stuff, better use of a dual chip card i guess.


----------



## sockpirate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sockpirate*
> 
> So the titan Z is the 790 ?


So there will not be a release of an actual 790 like the 690 ? Titan Z is it?


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sockpirate*
> 
> So there will not be a release of an actual 790 like the 690 ? Titan Z is it?


yeah titan z is all you get. no 790 for gamers.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> Imagine 2 x 680 > 3 x 980
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me wanty.


----------



## iSlayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deletive*
> 
> yes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but it's not mainly for us. it's basically for cuda work in realtime and stuff, better use of a dual chip card i guess.


It isn't really for anyone. It's nice and fast but businesses won't touch it because it isn't a workstation-grade component in advertising, functionality, drivers or support. Gamers won't touch it because 3k is a ludicrous price tag for something outclassed by competitors (and themselves!) at half the price.

'Twice as fast but wrong is infinitely slower'


----------



## bhav

The problem with the Titan Zs is only 2 power connectors = too low clock speeds.

If Nvidia let AIBs make custom versions, we would end up seeing something as beastly as that powercolor devil card.


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iSlayer*
> 
> It isn't really for anyone. It's nice and fast but businesses won't touch it because it isn't a workstation-grade component in advertising, functionality, drivers or support. Gamers won't touch it because 3k is a ludicrous price tag for something outclassed by competitors (and themselves!) at half the price.
> 
> 'Twice as fast but wrong is infinitely slower'


Yeah but it's pretty much a middle ground. does neither gaming or cuda the best but it does well in both I guess... sorta like the what the surface pro 3 is


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> to be honest I think if it was still 28nm it would have been released by now ! but I may be wrong


Yes and no. They can't release before ~Q4 2014 anything because that's when they are due approximately, if you draw a plot of their past major product collection releases. Then again, the main indication 20nm may be soon is that TSMC is full-on advertising it that it's being produced now (and Apple is already prepping the iphone with 20nm processors for ~September).


----------



## Silent Scone

Someone I know had a brief chat in person with rep from a certain reputable NV vendor. Not much of any real news, but Maxwell is coming September.

Big guns Q1 2015...

Will probably grab a single Classified just to play with.


----------



## fateswarm

Something tells me if they go that early, they might be replacements of mid-end cards only. But you never know. Maxwell "came" by the way, we had replacements of low-end cards.


----------



## Silent Scone

You know what I mean...

This isn't a mid range/low end thread







.

Whatever it is, the general tone of what I've heard is suggesting quite obviously it's the successor to the 780.


----------



## fateswarm

Then it can't be right because you can't replace both the high end cards and then replace those too with bigger guns a quarter later. He probably read the nonsense speculation that Q1 gets 16nm. Nothing is absolutely certain but for GPUs, that probably goes 2016 or at least late 2015.

In general history proves time and again that if you fill the shelves with a product for a certain market segment, you wait for 1 to 1.5 years in this business until you replace it again.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Big guns Q1 2015...


Do want.

Pretty much already decided to skip GM204 but I know that the wait for GM200 will be annoying.


----------



## Clocknut

I keep wondering, b4 the 880 out, will 780ti ever drop to $400? like all their predecessors?


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocknut*
> 
> I keep wondering, b4 the 880 out, will 780ti ever drop to $400? like all their predecessors?


Unlikely. I guess you might see the 780 drop to $400 or $350 (because Nv probably has quite a bit of 780 inventory) but the 780Ti will probably just be EOL'd


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Then it can't be right because you can't replace both the high end cards and then replace those too with bigger guns a quarter later. He probably read the nonsense speculation that Q1 gets 16nm. Nothing is absolutely certain but for GPUs, that probably goes 2016 or at least late 2015.
> 
> In general history proves time and again that if you fill the shelves with a product for a certain market segment, you wait for 1 to 1.5 years in this business until you replace it again.


What are you talking about? It's morning here, I'm not following.

GM204 is the successor to 780 series, this quarter. Will if I'm guessing sport 4GB VRAM. The 'Big guns' is GM200 which will supersede Titan Black.

And yes, GM204 will be faster than Titan Black/Ti. That's what is much like Alatar is stressing the most annoying part...

It pays to wait sometime with NV


----------



## Clocknut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Unlikely. I guess you might see the 780 drop to $400 or $350 (because Nv probably has quite a bit of 780 inventory) but the 780Ti will probably just be EOL'd


I hate these GPU price inflation.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Unlikely. I guess you might see the 780 drop to $400 or $350 (because Nv probably has quite a bit of 780 inventory) but the 780Ti will probably just be EOL'd


Gibbo from OCUK said it's highly unlikely. NV tend to run the channel dry of inventory before releasing new tech so no need to drop the price. I think most of the 780 range will go EOL come Q1 next year


----------



## Alatar

Just wait when AMD rolls out their ~500mm^2 die and Nvidia launches the ~600mm^2 GM200









Imo next gen pricing depends a lot on how GM204 will do and if Nvidia is making that as a big volume part to maybe even improve marketshare in the high end.


----------



## Silent Scone

God knows, I doubt we'll see any bargains lol. I guess we'll know more about GM200 nearer Christmas, but it's going to be tough for those like myself with little self control to not jump on the 880.

Don't want to start another VRAM onslaught, but I think 4GB is a safe bet this September. They'll be keen not to step on Titans toes till next year.

Like I say, one for my bench table maybe but that's it...


----------



## Alatar

Yeah it'll be hard not to jump on the 880 (or whatever they'll call the GM204 flagship). But I think I'll still be able to restrain myself







the wait for the bigger chips shouldn't be as long as it was with the 680.

Also I think the price of the first GM204 cards might be indicative of when GM200 will come out. If the GM204 cards are priced "low" in the $450-$550 range that would leave an opening for a stack of super high end GM200 cards. However if GM204 comes out at $700 or something I doubt we'll see GM200 soon after.


----------



## Silent Scone

Seems a fair assumption. TBH I'm fully expecting it to be March...ish.

I'll be interested to see if they've changed anything with regards to voltage control. I doubt it though, I think the Ti and Black PCB is the start of a slippery "nope" slope.


----------



## fateswarm

History proves NVIDIA drops prices if AMD forces them too. It happened with the 780 very gloriously recently.

Silent Scone, I meant they will not beat their 780 Tis and Titan blacks and then replace that in 4 months.

Even if they did attempt it, it will not work this time because people will know. Fool me once..


----------



## Silent Scone

I'm not so sure about that. If it is, and it most likely is 'Titan 2' then it doesn't fall into the same tier. This is Nvidia after all, they're the king of confusing end users. And by end users I don't mean us 'select people' reading this thread


----------



## bhav

But when GTX 770s came out there were loads of reduced GTX 680s at OCUK.


----------



## Silent Scone

That is because GK104 is a slow ass chip and they probably got bored of waiting for stock to run dry









(Yes I'm aware 770 was initially GK104)


----------



## fateswarm

You could claim the scenario of beating the Titan Blacks and the 780 Tis early and then the general public having general ignorance they will be replaced a quarter later. But there is a big problem. Leaks are inevitable 2-3 months before release so everyone will know no matter what.

Another argument (I'm playing devil's advocate towards me) is that the first batch on September might be very cost effective but the January batch to be upgraded but also very bad value for money.

I get a sense that won't happen, mainly because the Titan pill was better served a couple of years ago. Now the middle class starts holding more cash again and I believe the mid-end will thrive.


----------



## bhav

GDDR5 can still go faster right? Those Hynix 7 Ghz modules can OC up to 8 Ghz, so I don't why it cant.


----------



## nleksan

I strongly doubt that they would get good enough yields @ 8Ghz to make it a factory clockspeed. Of the different Hynix equipped cards I've had, my two 780Ti KPE will run over 8 (8400+), one 680LTG would hit 8050ish and the other 7925ish, 780LTG's both jjust under 8, and 780Ti Classifieds Non-KPE right around 8.

But for each card that would, 2 would not.

I ddon't remember what my 290X LTG's had (Hynix/Samsung?), but those cards couldn't clock the memory for anything (the core clocks weren't much better).

So while I suppose they could attempt it, I also imagine it would add to the price a fair bit.


----------



## CasualCat

Anyone know how quick to market EK is with their full waterblocks for completely new card lines? And how quick EVGA is on classy models?

ETA:

For example based on history were 880s to get an Oct 2 release date (my arbitrary made up date), we expect waterblocks when, classified model when, and waterblocks for classified model(s) when?


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Someone I know had a brief chat in person with rep from a certain reputable NV vendor. Not much of any real news, but Maxwell is coming September.
> 
> Big guns Q1 2015...
> 
> Will probably grab a single Classified just to play with.


That's something, Maxwell in September is what? a couple of mid-level cards? Reference on September or Evga's Classifieds etc will be available at that time. Big Guns could mean the GM 200 as in Titan II or GTX 880 Ti.


----------



## fateswarm

Hm. They could pull a Titan in Q1 that drags up to the end of 2015 until something better. But they will be so hated if they do that again.

Attributes: 20nm Titan, costing up to $1500, obliterating everything in its path. Mid-ends on 28nm barely beating the current high ends.

Ew...


----------



## Silent Scone

It's still very much a guessing game, but with Linus' comments on being in touch with NV recently and from what I've heard as per the above it would definitely appear that something reasonably big is coming this year


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> It's still very much a guessing game, but with Linus' comments on being in touch with NV recently and from what I've heard as per the above it would definitely appear that something reasonably big is coming this year


Do you recall when or on what video Linus mentioned that? I missed it and I would like to check it out. So from what you were told do you think that EVGA could have something new and relatively powerful soon?
Any word on HDMI 2.0 support?


----------



## curly haired boy

if i can get an 880 around 500, AND it's able to max The Witcher 3 @ 60 fps 1080p, i'll be pretty happy.

honestly, as 4K and higher framerates and resolutions keep coming into the mainstream, a lot of cards become overkill for 1080p, so i'll have a lot of extra overhead/wiggle room for maxing them.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pterois*
> 
> Do you recall when or on what video Linus mentioned that? I missed it and I would like to check it out. So from what you were told do you think that EVGA could have something new and relatively powerful soon?
> Any word on HDMI 2.0 support?


He posted the video a couple of days ago. I can't look for it now unfortunately. I don't know! It's word of mouth, but I trust the source. Something 'interesting' is definitely coming September


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curly haired boy*
> 
> if i can get an 880 around 500, AND it's able to max The Witcher 3 @ 60 fps 1080p, i'll be pretty happy.
> 
> honestly, as 4K and higher framerates and resolutions keep coming into the mainstream, a lot of cards become overkill for 1080p, so i'll have a lot of extra overhead/wiggle room for maxing them.


My ideal scenario would be an early Q1 2015 release (as large purchases are easier for me in Q1/Q2) of a GM200 880Ti with a promotional code for Witcher 3.


----------



## bhav

Also I don't want to upgrade to 256 bit cards. I remembered they struggle at high res / triple monitor.

Gotta get that rumored 4000 Maxwell cores with 512 bit vram.


----------



## iSlayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deletive*
> 
> Yeah but it's pretty much a middle ground. does neither gaming or cuda the best but it does well in both I guess... sorta like the what the surface pro 3 is


Fitting analogy given the 1.2b it has cost MS







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> That is because GK104 is a slow ass chip and they probably got bored of waiting for stock to run dry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Yes I'm aware 770 was initially GK104)


How exactly do I go about checking if my 770 is GK104? I just bought one.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> Also I don't want to upgrade to 256 bit cards. I remembered they struggle at high res / triple monitor.
> 
> Gotta get that rumored 4000 Maxwell cores with 512 bit vram.


Making me less secure about that 770 by the moment lol. As if spending $300 when new cards are right around the corner hasn't already.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iSlayer*
> 
> Fitting analogy given the 1.2b it has cost MS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> *How exactly do I go about checking if my 770 is GK104? I just bought one.*
> Making me less secure about that 770 by the moment lol. As if spending $300 when new cards are right around the corner hasn't already.


GPUZ should tell you.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CasualCat*
> 
> My ideal scenario would be an early Q1 2015 release (as large purchases are easier for me in Q1/Q2) of a GM200 880Ti with a promotional code for Witcher 3.


That would be great but I doubt it will come in time for the Witcher 3. I would love to know something of what's coming though as I want to do an SLI setup for 4K and it would be nice to know with what. I have been putting off a second 780 Ti mostly because of the limited memory and waiting for something new with more VRAM and HDMI 2.0 support.


----------



## thebski

I expect nothing less than a rinse/repeat cycle of the 600/Titan/700 Series. GM204 for the 800's this fall, Double Memory GM200 with DP in a $1K Titan variant in 1H2015, and the rest of the standard memory GM200's with no DP for the 900 series in 2H2015. Of course, if AMD does something that forces something else, that would be great, but I expect nVidia to follow the same profit milking strategy if they're able to.

I will be waiting for non-Titan full GM200 as opposed to buying every iterative flagship along the way this time. It will be hard to resist the GM204 cards, but I'm just going to have to suck it up.


----------



## fateswarm

wait aren't all 770s gk104?


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> wait aren't all 770s gk104?


That is what I thought, but I don't pretend to know everything like some people do.


----------



## iSlayer

What else foes the GTX 770 come as?


----------



## bhav

All GTX 770s are GK104s.


----------



## soulwrath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I expect nothing less than a rinse/repeat cycle of the 600/Titan/700 Series. GM204 for the 800's this fall, Double Memory GM200 with DP in a $1K Titan variant in 1H2015, and the rest of the standard memory GM200's with no DP for the 900 series in 2H2015. Of course, if AMD does something that forces something else, that would be great, but I expect nVidia to follow the same profit milking strategy if they're able to.
> 
> I will be waiting for non-Titan full GM200 as opposed to buying every iterative flagship along the way this time. It will be hard to resist the GM204 cards, but I'm just going to have to suck it up.


not really sure if he is really going to be waiting for the GM200s or not


----------



## bhav

RESIST!!!

Those initial overpriced 256 bit cards. Unless you have worse than GK104 you do not need.

Wait for the most glorious GM200 / 210.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> RESIST!!!


Something tells me NVIDIA is way ahead of you. Unless their marketing department is a bunch of bafoons, they know people are aware of it.

My initial instinct is they won't pull another Titan until late-16nm, but you never know.


----------



## soulwrath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Something tells me NVIDIA is way ahead of you. Unless their marketing department is a bunch of bafoons, they know people are aware of it.
> 
> My initial instinct is they won't pull another Titan until late-16nm, but you never know.


agreed - look @ how much they sold black z - 300 world wide -_-


----------



## bhav

Seriously? They only sold 300 of those? Lol.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulwrath*
> 
> agreed - look @ how much they sold black z - 300 world wide -_-


That was just dumb though. Did they really expect to sell any $3000 cards beginning with GTX?

I think original Titan treated them better than they ever expected, especially when it was the only GK110 card available under the GTX branding.


----------



## soulwrath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> That was just dumb though. Did they really expect to sell any $3000 cards beginning with GTX?
> 
> I think original Titan treated them better than they ever expected, especially when it was the only GK110 card available under the GTX branding.


This is just my opinion of the whole TITAN project
It sucked... I wish they just came out with the 790 2x slightly underclocked GK110s with 6-8 Gigs of Video Ram.. is that too much to ask








I was excited when 780 launched, then the Titan and then 780 Ti i was like.. where is my 790!?


----------



## bhav

Funniest thing about Titan was ...

1) Heres a titan, £££crazy$$$ price tag, 1 disabled shader cluster.
2) Heres GTX 780, mostly identical much lower price
3 & 4) Now heres fully unlocked Titan black and GTX 780ti ...

Everyone that purchased 1 got completely screwed.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulwrath*
> 
> This is just my opinion of the whole TITAN project
> It sucked... I wish they just came out with the 790 2x slightly underclocked GK110s with 6-8 Gigs of Video Ram.. is that too much to ask
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was excited when 780 launched, then the Titan and then 780 Ti i was like.. where is my 790!?


I agree that for consumers it is awful. However, for nVidia, I'm sure it's quite great. Unfortunately, they're the ones making the decisions. I firmly believe the first GM200 card will be under the Titan brand, cost $1K+, and will be the only GM200 card available for several months ala Kepler series.

That is, unless AMD forces otherwise.


----------



## serothis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> RESIST!!!
> 
> Those initial overpriced 256 bit cards. Unless you have worse than GK104 you do not need.
> 
> Wait for the most glorious GM200 / 210.


I'm still sitting on GF110 so....









although that having been said i'm not buying over priced cards...


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> Funniest thing about Titan was ...
> 
> 1) Heres a titan, £££crazy$$$ price tag, 1 disabled shader cluster.
> 2) Heres GTX 780, mostly identical much lower price
> 3 & 4) Now heres fully unlocked Titan black and GTX 780ti ...
> 
> Everyone that purchased 1 got completely screwed.


I don't feel Titan owners got screwed at all. They still have the 2nd fastest single gpu Nvidia card and it is 17 months old! That doesn't happen very often.


----------



## i7monkey

I hope AMD brings some fierce competition so Nvidia doesn't bend us over again.

$229 GM204 860
$499 GM200 880

$499 GM210 980

Just like the olden days..., but I know this won`t happen.

They'll probably give us another mid range 204, charge flagship for it, then Titan 2 will come in at a $1000 or more and ravage everyone's wallet and dignity









I'll pass on GM204.
Same with Titan 2

I'm waiting for the 980 or the 980Ti.


----------



## hipno650

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> Funniest thing about Titan was ...
> 
> 1) Heres a titan, £££crazy$$$ price tag, 1 disabled shader cluster.
> 2) Heres GTX 780, mostly identical much lower price
> 3 & 4) Now heres fully unlocked Titan black and GTX 780ti ...
> 
> Everyone that purchased 1 got completely screwed.


i disagree. Heck I own two Titans and I don't feel screwed at all. I bought my first one on launch and it has remained essentially (Titan Black is obviously better) the fastest GPU I can own for well over a year now. That is an extremely rare occurrence for GPU's and I feel pretty good about it. Now that I own a 4K monitor and a second card I feel even better because if I would have waited for the 780's I would be up a creek trying to run 4K games on even a pair of them compared to the Titans.

The first rule of being an early adopter is that you will never get the best value for something. (This goes for PC's and so many other things in life) that's something anyone who buys and Intel Extreme Edition CPU understand and something most people who bought a Titan understood when they shelled out a thousand bucks for a single graphics card. If Nvidia (Or AMD) creates another "Titan" experience you can bet i'll buy another (maybe even more)

As for the new cards I will be really interested to see how they perform. If the rumors are true that these cards are stuck on a 256bit bus I find it hard to see how they will be able to really shine at high resolutions considering GDDR5 over 8GHz isn't that practical.


----------



## Bluemustang

There is too much uncertainty for the GM200s, possibly 6 months after second maxwells and then it might just be a thousand dollar titan 2 and have to wait even longer for the normal priced GM200s.

Keep in mind that time is money. You pay for gpus to have the power to run your games. If i have to wait 6 months between this launch and the next and then with uncertainty possibly even longer, that time has $ value. I get my moneys worth by enjoying what i can get now for 6-12 months just as the titan users did for far longer.

So I'm not going to wait so long. I'll just buy what they got now (so long as its reasonable, like 30%'ish faster) and enjoy it for 6-12 months then resell it and recoup 70-80% of my cost and buy the new hotness.


----------



## fateswarm

Silent Scone tell us what 770 isn't gk104. come on. Pliz.


----------



## i7monkey

If history is to guide us, Nvidia will only release products about once a year.

This what *Kepler* looked like:

March 2012 680 (GK104)
Feb 2013 Titan (GK110)
May 2013 780 (GK110)
Nov 2013 780Ti (GK110)

I'm assuming *Maxwell* will be similar:

800 series
1 year later
Titan 2
several months later 980

What makes things different this time unlike Kepler and more similar to Fermi (400/500 series), is that Nvidia has a mid-range product (GM204) and a high-end product (GM200).

So I'd expect that Nvidia will release Maxwell in similar fashion to Fermi.

This is what *Fermi* looked like:

March 2010 470/480 (GF100)
July 2010 460 (GF104)
Nov 2010 580/570 (GF110)

So I'd expect Maxwell to look similar in that they keep GM200 as the flagship, GM204 as the midrange, and make a GM210 as Titan 2 and the 980.

What doesn't make sense to me are the multiple release dates, one in supposedly Q3 2014, and one in Q1 2015. It makes no sense.

The only way it makes sense is if they do a bottom to top release and come out with the GM204 860 first, then the big boys 880/870 in Q1 2015.

Assuming there's only 1 release date for the 800 series, Maxwell should look like this:

Q3-Q4 2014 880/870 (cut down GM200), 860 (Gm204)
Q4 2015 Titan 2 (full chip GM210)
Q1 2016 980 (full chip GM210 )


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Assuming there's only 1 release date for the 800 series, Maxwell should look like this:
> 
> Q3-Q4 2014 880/870 (cut down GM200), 860 (Gm204)
> Q4 2015 Titan 2 (full chip GM210)
> Q1 2016 980 (full chip GM210 )


It could be something similar to this. Would be better to have a cut down GM200 for the 880 instead of the GM204. It should also mean a wider bus, although I doubt that it would take them a year to release the Titan 2 after that.


----------



## PhilWrir

How about we get back on topic and back to being respectful and not arguing guys


----------



## Silent Scone

Fair


----------



## WiLd FyeR

Just sold the Original titan for $800, what card should I get for now till the 8 series cards come out?


----------



## flopticalcube

7950's are going for $100 on ebay. Nice holdover until the 800's arrive for very little outlay.


----------



## bhav

Sorry forgot I'm not allowed tho ask that.


----------



## flowfaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiLd FyeR*
> 
> Just sold the Original titan for $800, what card should I get for now till the 8 series cards come out?


A used 770 for around 250. It will still max most games at 1080p without AA of course.


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiLd FyeR*
> 
> Just sold the Original titan for $800, what card should I get for now till the 8 series cards come out?


what games you currently playing ? hd 7950 on ebay for cheap as fateswarm said, some of them been used for mining though some people say it's bad, but haven't noticed anything wrong with my, and it's been use for mining.


----------



## szeged

750ti, beast of a card and can be had for cheap, if youre playing 1080p, turn off AA on newer games and still hit 50+ fps.


----------



## Alatar

Anyone have any idea what this is about...?



The ultimatequest hashtag just leads me to some obscure 2d indie game.


----------



## szeged

half life 3 confirmed.


----------



## Alatar

Considering the quakecon that's going on atm I would have guessed it's about the next doom game.

But the doom reveal is supposed to be in less than a day.


----------



## szeged

doom life 3 confirmed

wait what.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> doom life 3 confirmed
> 
> wait what.


Winrar!


----------



## curly haired boy

just read a review that said the 780 can't hold a steady 60 in far cry 3. and we've got games prettier than that coming out soon.... cmon 880!


----------



## StrongForce

Must have been a bad joke my HD5870 almost was in the 60's all the time, but using Vsync though Vsync 2 was stuck on 30 fps for some reasons, I think the only game a 780 can't get 60 fps (beside some odd vsync setting) would be metro's and Crysis 3 I think


----------



## curly haired boy

yeah, but for 500 bucks you'd expect it to handle even those...


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Considering the quakecon that's going on atm I would have guessed it's about the next doom game.
> 
> But the doom reveal is supposed to be in less than a day.


Was going to say, looks Doomish lol.


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> half life 3 confirmed.


It'll be pretty sick if you got a Half life 3 pre order coupon in the gtx 880 box. but than half life 3 never comes out


----------



## iSlayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> doom life 3 confirmed
> 
> wait what.


Looking forward to it a lot more than the new call of battledutyfield.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Considering the quakecon that's going on atm I would have guessed it's about the next doom game.
> 
> But the doom reveal is supposed to be in less than a day.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Considering the quakecon that's going on atm I would have guessed it's about the next doom game.
> 
> But the doom reveal is supposed to be in less than a day.


Doom 4 reveal is tonight at 7PM EST. This should be for something else. SDCC starts on the 24th, maybe they will have a reveal before the show starts.
It will probably be the shield 2/tablet or the new maxwell cards. The new 800 MX cards seem a better bet though.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iSlayer*
> 
> Looking forward to it a lot more than the new call of battledutyfield.


LOL

Half Life 3 is long overdue. Make it happen Valve. It will rake in the money!


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pterois*
> 
> Quake 4 reveal is tonight at 7PM EST. This should be for something else. SDCC starts on the 24th, maybe they will have a reveal before the show starts.
> It will probably be the shield 2/tablet or the new maxwell cards. The new 800 MX cards seem a better bet though.


Quake 4? Blast from the past there


----------



## spqmax

linus said he had meeting with nvidia on monday, but couldn't say what it was about because of nda etc. etc. maybe it had something to do with this, and it isn't a game.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Quake 4? Blast from the past there


Doom 4 (QuakeCon)

Sorry, typo

Wish it will be a new desktop maxwell reveal but it's doubtful.
Either some new mobile cards (MX) or the new shield tablet.


----------



## Alatar

Another completely random nvidia tweet: https://twitter.com/NVIDIA_UK/status/489783801972023296

Anyone have any ideas for what's happening in 27 days? Any gaming events or lans going on that they might be referring to?


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Another completely random nvidia tweet: https://twitter.com/NVIDIA_UK/status/489783801972023296
> 
> Anyone have any ideas for what's happening in 27 days? Any gaming events or lans going on that they might be referring to?


inb4 20nm maxwells.


----------



## Maintenance Bot

From what anyone can gather or what you know, can we expect an 880 to be faster than a 780 ti?


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Another completely random nvidia tweet: https://twitter.com/NVIDIA_UK/status/489783801972023296
> 
> Anyone have any ideas for what's happening in 27 days? Any gaming events or lans going on that they might be referring to?


Maybe,

Gamescom 2014
August 13 - 17, 2014
Clogne International Expo Centre
Cologne, Germany

http://www.nvidia.com/page/events.html


----------



## Alatar

27 days from now is the 13th of August.

So it's probably gamescom. I wonder if they're going to show anything there.


----------



## fateswarm

inb4.. oh you know.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maintenance Bot*
> 
> From what anyone can gather or what you know, can we expect an 880 to be faster than a 780 ti?


Common sense anyone? When did you last see a flagship launch slower than the last gen?


----------



## pterois

Hopefully it will, although there are many factors that might affect performance and at this point we don't know what chip it will feature or the bus width. It will definitely be faster than the GTX 780 and it could have similar performance to 780 Ti. There have been sources indicating that it will be a mid-level card and not a flagship but with recent leaks and rumors it's starting to seem like it could be anything.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Maybe,
> 
> Gamescom 2014
> August 13 - 17, 2014
> Clogne International Expo Centre
> Cologne, Germany
> 
> http://www.nvidia.com/page/events.html


It's definitely Gamescom, question is why, what are they showing? Maybe they will have The Witcher 3 at their booth as it is already confirmed that the game will have new gameplay. This tweet is from Nvidia UK not Nvidia Geforce. They could be demonstrating the new Shield as well.


----------



## curly haired boy

announcing a witcher 3 pack-in after kicking watch dogs out of everyone's bundle?


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curly haired boy*
> 
> announcing a witcher 3 pack-in after kicking watch dogs out of everyone's bundle?


That would be cool! It got annoying seeing Watch Dogs pop up everywhere.


----------



## thunder12

http://www.overclock.net/t/1502498/wccf-nvidia-maxwell-gtx-880-and-gtx-870-release-date-confirmed-coming-this-november#post_22580622


----------



## Bluemustang

From possible september to....skip october and actually november? nooooes


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thunder12*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1502498/wccf-nvidia-maxwell-gtx-880-and-gtx-870-release-date-confirmed-coming-this-november#post_22580622


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bluemustang*
> 
> From possible september to....skip october and actually november? nooooes


Source is a non crediting forum rumor mill, who cares what they make up as "news" that's "confirmed"?


----------



## iSlayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Common sense anyone? When did you last see a flagship launch slower than the last gen?


Given the Titan Z we aren't too certain what whacky thing Nvidia might do next.


----------



## Serandur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Common sense anyone? When did you last see a flagship launch slower than the last gen?


9800GTX vs 8800GTX Ultra


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serandur*
> 
> 9800GTX vs 8800GTX Ultra


Yeah, as I said... quite a long time ago







. Doesn't happen often







. And the 9800GTX was pretty much the same as the 8800GTX anyway... the 8800 Ultra would be today's "Titan".


----------



## Silent Scone

A little birdie says something big is happening NV related on the 15th/16th of August...


----------



## Ascii Aficionado

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> A little birdie says something big is happening NV related on the 15th/16th of August...


I'm pulling this out of my butt (speculation), but it's likely the 870/880 announcement since Sweclockers has supposedly 'confirmed' the release date of the 870/880 as being in November.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> A little birdie says something big is happening NV related on the 15th/16th of August...


Is this new? They were tweeting for something on the 19th of this month and for the 13th of next month (GamesCom). Linus had a meeting with them on Monday so something important is up but it should be the Shield 2/tablet or new line of mobile cards (MX). Unless they have something really special regarding desktop maxwells like water cooling.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ascii Aficionado*
> 
> I'm pulling this out of my butt (speculation), but it's likely the 870/880 announcement since Sweclockers has supposedly 'confirmed' the release date of the 870/880 as being in November.


Obviously they have to be very careful, but I get the impression it may even be something hitting the shelves...and I've been told I'm going to want it


----------



## Alatar

Imo November sounds too late for the 880 and 870. That's cutting it too close for holiday sales (because launch availability is always meh). Launch at the same time as haswell-E in Sept-Oct sounds much more reasonable.


----------



## Silent Scone

Yeah I get the impression in typical NV fashion we're gonna get slapped with temptation very very shortly.

My Blacks are safe till next year though me thinks.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Obviously they have to be very careful, but I get the impression it may even be something hitting the shelves...and I've been told I'm going to want it


The Ultimate is coming countdown is for the Shield Tablet so there's something else coming next month. Need an SLI setup with plenty of memory and HDMI 2.0 support for 4K. Getting a second GTX 780 Ti won't do.


----------



## Ascii Aficionado

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Imo November sounds too late for the 880 and 870. That's cutting it too close for holiday sales (because launch availability is always meh). Launch at the same time as haswell-E in Sept-Oct sounds much more reasonable.


Don't tease me, I'd totally get an 880 if it only required me to wait 2 months longer compared to when I was planning on getting the 780 Ti Classified.


----------



## Olivon

VRZ Chinese seems to indicate that first 20nm chip is designed for mobile market and could come in Q1'15. (just in time for Broadwell mobile variant)
Only 28nm for nVidia desktop cardz in 2014 according to their sources.

*Translated*


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Imo November sounds too late for the 880 and 870. That's cutting it too close for holiday sales (because launch availability is always meh). Launch at the same time as haswell-E in Sept-Oct sounds much more reasonable.


Yeah. I was about to say the same thing about the coexistence of Haswell-E and NVIDIA releases. But, if that is true, it may mean they may plan for the 880 to be very high end and a good pair to a Haswell-E build.

inb4 20nm Maxwell


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Yeah. I was about to say the same thing about the coexistence of Haswell-E and NVIDIA releases. But, if that is true, it may mean they may plan for the 880 to be very high end and a good pair to a Haswell-E build.
> 
> inb4 20nm Maxwell


The GM204 256-bit doesn't seem very high end especially for 4K.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pterois*
> 
> The GM204 256-bit doesn't seem very high end especially for 4K.


I know. But that's speculation. The GPUs might be 20nm, 512bit bus and with a die the size of a Hawaii.


----------



## flopticalcube

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> with a die the size of a Hawaii.


If we are lucky, that will be literal... but I might need to get a bigger case.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> I know. But that's speculation. The GPUs might be 20nm, 512bit bus and with a die the size of a Hawaii.


That would be good but all those manifests have the GM204 to be a 28nm 256-bit. Personally I think that releasing the GM200 512-bit as the GTX 880 would be more appropriate reserving the GM210 for Titan II and the 900s. The GM204 could be used for the GTX 860 later on.


----------



## fateswarm

I'm not very opposed to the speculation that lowbie boards may be first. But it seems unbelievable they would pull slightly faster models than the 780 Ti and Titan Black and then only 3 months later pull even higher end models. It would kill the sales of the first models since leaks of the latter would come out at least 2 months before release (if they already do). So, it may make more sense the first ones are low ends replacing max the 780 vanilla, unless the extremity happens of having very low cost models now and very high cost models later, but I believe that's very unlikely, it doesn't look like the M.O. of NVIDIA or the era.


----------



## Silent Scone

Guess you'll be surprised then. Although on the face of it, it's weird of you not to assume things coming out later are faster


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> it's weird of you not to assume things coming out later are faster


I guess you skipped parts of what I was saying. I said, it makes sense to do it but not combined with what most people say that the first batch will kill the 780 Tis and Titan Blacks. Because why not wait for the next batch that kills them even further (if the same people speculated only in 3 months they'll get bigger cards)? (unless the first batch is too cheap, but good luck with that, but even in that case it's a problem because there is no way of proving the next batch is not as cheap).


----------



## spqmax

But then how can the "top" be populated by sub 600$ cards while the supposedly "inferior" blacks and tis are still around @ 600+?


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> I guess you skipped parts of what I was saying. I said, it makes sense to do it but not combined with what most people say that the first batch will kill the 780 Tis and Titan Blacks. Because why not wait for the next batch that kills them even further (if the same people speculated only in 3 months they'll get bigger cards)? (unless the first batch is too cheap, but good luck with that, but even in that case it's a problem because there is no way of proving the next batch is not as cheap).


That's why it makes more sense for GM200 GTX 880 and GTX 870 October/November 2014, GM204 GTX 860 Q1 2015 (mid-level), Full GM210 Titan 2 Q2 2015, Full GM210 900s October/November 2015. A GTX 880 Ti could fall somewhere around Q1-Q2 2015.


----------



## fateswarm

Yep. A scenario of an overpriced Titan in Q1/2, the other high ends much later, and mid-ends earlier before it, works, as one scenario. But it's so sad, a deja vu, and possibly a marketing suicide among enthusiasts.

But they may do it if they are financially desperate to follow it.


----------



## iSlayer

AMD needs to follow Sanic's advice and step it up so that doesn't happen. Price competition would be nice.


----------



## skruppe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> I guess you skipped parts of what I was saying. I said, it makes sense to do it but not combined with what most people say that the first batch will kill the 780 Tis and Titan Blacks. Because why not wait for the next batch that kills them even further (if the same people speculated only in 3 months they'll get bigger cards)? (unless the first batch is too cheap, but good luck with that, but even in that case it's a problem because there is no way of proving the next batch is not as cheap).


Or they release the next Titan along with the first batch. Premium price if you want the best (until second batch). Nvidia pulled it off with Titan which was quite a success, so why wouldn't they do something similar again?


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skruppe*
> 
> Or they release the next Titan along with the first batch. Premium price if you want the best (until second batch). Nvidia pulled it off with Titan which was quite a success, so why wouldn't they do something similar again?


I think people will be a little more apprehensive this time if Nvidia tried that again. I believe if they price the next card to high or call it Titan 2, people will wait it out a little longer because something cheaper should be right around the corner.


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flopticalcube*
> 
> If we are lucky, that will be literal... but I might need to get a bigger case.


I have a Mercury S8. I can fit Hawaii in it.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skruppe*
> 
> Or they release the next Titan along with the first batch. Premium price if you want the best (until second batch). Nvidia pulled it off with Titan which was quite a success, so why wouldn't they do something similar again?


Well they could but that's a different scenario. The usual assumption last week is "medium-end card on 28nm naw, 20nm in Q1". Or wait, even 16nm, even more unbelievable, but not all say that.


----------



## Pikaru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pterois*
> 
> That's why it makes more sense for GM200 GTX 880 and GTX 870 October/November 2014, GM204 GTX 860 Q1 2015 (mid-level), Full GM210 Titan 2 Q2 2015, Full GM210 900s October/November 2015. A GTX 880 Ti could fall somewhere around Q1-Q2 2015.


I hope you're right about Q1 at the earliest for 880 Ti. It'd be easier on my wallet.

Also, I'd really like to get some use out of my sli'd 770s before upgrading. A single 780 Ti wouldn't be a worthwhile upgrade and if an 880 is about on par with a 780 Ti or just slightly slower, then that wouldn't be worth it either.

880 Ti... I hope you don't disappoint me!


----------



## SirWaWa

what's the estimated power consumption of 880 Ti?
as long as it's better than my sli 580's, more powerful too I presume as well


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirWaWa*
> 
> what's the estimated power consumption of 880 Ti?
> as long as it's better than my sli 580's, more powerful too I presume as well


Well a 880 or 880 Ti, don't know if there will be 880 Ti, is going to crush your 580 SLI. It is probably 1/3 power consumption of your 2x 580 and 2x the performance


----------



## SirWaWa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Well a 880 or 880 Ti, don't know if there will be 880 Ti, is going to crush your 580 SLI. It is probably 1/3 power consumption of your 2x 580 and 2x the performance


great to hear
is it okay that I have a "legacy" PCI-E 2.0 board and not 3.0
I am no longer happy with SLI and want to return to a single card, preferably as usual the most powerful one as possible


----------



## bhav

I don't recall there being much difference performance wise between PCI-E 2.0 and 3.0 in reviews, not enough to bother about it anyway.

If I do end up going tri SLI, Id be running them at 16x, 8x, 8x PCI-E 2.

Only reason I was thinking of it was for triple Gsync, but tbh all that's gonna be way out of my budget, I'll likely just stick to one monitor and only get 2 big maxwells.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirWaWa*
> 
> great to hear
> is it okay that I have a "legacy" PCI-E 2.0 board and not 3.0
> I am no longer happy with SLI and want to return to a single card, preferably as usual the most powerful one as possible


should be absolutely no problem, I am going to run it on PCIE 2.0 aswell.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> I don't recall there being much difference performance wise between PCI-E 2.0 and 3.0 in reviews, not enough to bother about it anyway.
> 
> If I do end up going tri SLI, Id be running them at 16x, 8x, 8x PCI-E 2.
> 
> Only reason I was thinking of it was for triple Gsync, but tbh all that's gonna be way:thumb: out of my budget, I'll likely just stick to one monitor and only get 2 big maxwells.


higher the resolution and the more GPUs the more it's noticeable. Sometimes double digits. Kind of obvious really if you're pushing the bandwidth


----------



## Pendulum

I'm just hoping the 880 Ti will be in 20nm. I'm looking to do a new build around Q3/Q4 '15 based with a 120Hz 1440p setup.
If the trend of 6 months still goes for the Ti model it'll be out around Q2 15, if it really is going to be cheaper than the outgoing 780 Ti [which I doubt] you could probably pick one up on EVGA B stock for $550.


----------



## bhav

Well I already bought cables and a PSU to handle tri SLI .... I want it so much.

THERES NO HOLDING BACK NOW, SAVE £60 A WEEK THEN SPLURGE!


----------



## ocCuS

Man I can´t decide this.
I have here a 780ti classified kingpin edition waiting for my next build. I planned to buy a second one for a sli config, but as I´m waiting for x99 and I´m willing to wait should I sell my 780ti kingpin and go for 2 880s in sli when they come out or should I keep my kingpin and get a second one?


----------



## Alvarez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ocCuS*
> 
> Man I can´t decide this.
> I have here a 780ti classified kingpin edition waiting for my next build. I planned to buy a second one for a sli config, but as I´m waiting for x99 and I´m willing to wait should I sell my 780ti kingpin and go for 2 880s in sli when they come out or should I keep my kingpin and get a second one?


I was in your position yesterday, made tons of research ask to people around...

And grabbed a 780ti classy. And i had GTX570 as current one, unlike you i didnt have the card already. If we decide to wait each release we wont be buying any card or any component, it is a war we're gonna lose.

Get another kingpin, sli them and enjoy. After days of research i dont think 880s will beat 780tis with ridiculous amount of perf increases anyway. Perhaps 10 or 15 percent but this can be eliminated via overlocking what we have. So get a kingpin and wait for 9xx series.

Considering most of the companies are still releasing titles for both console generations, i dont think we will have a game which will force our cards. We should be good with 780ti s for at least 2 years.


----------



## bhav

780tis are still great cards, and in SLI they will still be good for another few years.

I doubt there will be much difference between 780 Ti and 880 anyway, maybe 10-20% only.


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> 780tis are still great cards, and in SLI they will still be good for another few years.
> 
> I doubt there will be much difference between 780 Ti and 880 anyway, maybe 10-20% only.


yeah but if it's 599$ for 20% better. and 499$ for somethign ats a 780ti. than like 399$ for a gtx 780. it's a win across the board


----------



## Ascii Aficionado

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> 780tis are still great cards, and in SLI they will still be good for another few years.
> 
> I doubt there will be much difference between 780 Ti and 880 anyway, maybe 10-20% only.


If it's less than 25% then I'd consider the 880's to be a scam.


----------



## Millillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ascii Aficionado*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> 780tis are still great cards, and in SLI they will still be good for another few years.
> 
> I doubt there will be much difference between 780 Ti and 880 anyway, maybe 10-20% only.
> 
> 
> 
> If it's less than 25% then I'd consider the 880's to be a scam.
Click to expand...

It's not a scam if you know what you're getting. That word really isn't even applicable here.

Besides, it would only be that little of an increase for people who constantly stay at or near the top of performance, which is, I'd be willing to bet, a tiny portion of even people who build their own computers (myself included).


----------



## bhav

Hardly a scam.

But lets say its 15% faster, theyre also going to consume much less power and run a lot cooler too.


----------



## Ascii Aficionado

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Millillion*
> 
> It's not a scam if you know what you're getting. That word really isn't even applicable here.
> 
> Besides, it would only be that little of an increase for people who constantly stay at or near the top of performance, which is, I'd be willing to bet, a tiny portion of even people who build their own computers (myself included).


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> Hardly a scam.
> 
> But lets say its 15% faster, theyre also going to consume much less power and run a lot cooler too.


Calling it a scam was just my lazy exaggerative label for a 'what if', and it's not something I would share with other people as being fact, it's clearly just my opinion and something I wish would be true (as in hoping for at least that much of a performance increase)

And even then it would only apply if it was blindly purchased without seeing benchmarks, which none of us here would actually do, so the point is mostly moot.

Just clearing it up, I'm not actually calling it or even truly viewing it as a 'scam'.


----------



## Threx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Well a 880 or 880 Ti, don't know if there will be 880 Ti, is going to crush your 580 SLI. It is probably 1/3 power consumption of your 2x 580 and *2x the performance*


I think that's a very optimistic speculation. 40-50% is probably more realistic.


----------



## SirWaWa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pendulum*
> 
> I'm just hoping the 880 Ti will be in 20nm. I'm looking to do a new build around Q3/Q4 '15 based with a 120Hz 1440p setup.
> If the trend of 6 months still goes for the Ti model it'll be out around Q2 15, if it really is going to be cheaper than the outgoing 780 Ti [which I doubt] you could probably pick one up on EVGA B stock for $550.


28nm unless the Ti deviates


----------



## Silent Scone

http://videocardz.com/51078/nvidia-geforce-gtx-880-arrives-gamescom

Seems the little birdie I was speaking of earlier might have been on the money


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> http://videocardz.com/51078/nvidia-geforce-gtx-880-arrives-gamescom
> 
> Seems the little birdie I was speaking of earlier might have been on the money


Nice little birdie!!!


----------



## Silent Scone

Just heard a certain e-tailer is having a launch weekend mid august...


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Just heard a certain e-tailer is having a launch weekend mid august...


And I just heard a certain little bird whispering in the lightest of breezes that the green sky in the midst august summer is upon us.


----------



## curly haired boy

i wanna know how much poorer i'm going to be.







my 660 is fresh from RMA but feeling less than muscular these days...


----------



## StrongForce

you probably gonna be 600$ poorer I'd say but if you wait for custom cooled might be a little more, anyone remember the price of the 780 vanilla at launch?


----------



## fateswarm

650


----------



## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curly haired boy*
> 
> i wanna know how much poorer i'm going to be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my 660 is fresh from RMA but feeling less than muscular these days...


You'll be going from the 660 to an 880 860. You happy with that?


----------



## ladcrooks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DADDYDC650*
> 
> Not for a long time is my guess. Get ready for the GTX 880, GTX 880 TI, GTX TI SE, GTX Titan, GTX Titan Black, GTX Titan XYZ, GTX Titan XYZ Milkage Edition.


there are only 26 letters in the alphabet - what is Nvidia going to do about this? GTXXXX .....


----------



## curly haired boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> You'll be going from the 660 to an 880 860. You happy with that?


i don't care what it's called, so long as it maxes witcher 3 at 60 fps


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curly haired boy*
> 
> i don't care what it's called, so long as it maxes witcher 3 at 60 fps


There's no way that the GTX 860 will max out The Witcher 3 at 60 fps. A single GTX 880 might not be able to do that, hopefully it will though.


----------



## curly haired boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pterois*
> 
> There's no way that the GTX 860 will max out The Witcher 3 at 60 fps. A single GTX 880 might not be able to do that, hopefully it will though.


i'll be getting whatever nvidia card can do it. i'm holding off on buying anything else until i know









also, there's over 6 months of optimization that CDPR has yet to do...so requirements might even be reasonable


----------



## Wezzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pterois*
> 
> There's no way that the GTX 860 will max out The Witcher 3 at 60 fps. A single GTX 880 might not be able to do that, hopefully it will though.


Not even at 1920x1080?


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wezzor*
> 
> Not even at 1920x1080?


The GTX 860 no, the GTX 880 hopefully it will.


----------



## Mand12

I don't understand why people don't think the 880 will be good...


----------



## iSlayer

Because Nvidia does crazy stuff and we expect them to sell us the equivalent of a 780 Ti at the same price in a cash grab attempt and then unveilt the 880 isn't the real flagship but the Titan is. And then later bust out the 880 Ti once they're done milking the people who thought the Titan would be the ultimate and head after those who want that performance but at a lower price point.


----------



## StrongForce

pessimistics







lol or maybe they think that after so many gens on the 28nm there can't be no performance improvements or very little, but I doubt that


----------



## bhav

Correction - many people dont think it will be good enough, for the price point and range its being released as in particular.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> I don't understand why people don't think the 880 will be good...


That is not what the people are afraid of. People who think that the 880 is going to be worse than 780 Ti are not in their right mind.

What some people are actually afraid of is that the 880 is only going to be the fastest GPU for a short time. And especially on overclock.net and other enthusiast places the users strife for ultra High-End.

They wait for something "bigger". They feel cheated because they actually care more about the specifications than the actual performance. Guess this has more to do with being enthusiastic about the hardware and less about the games.

It is a funny phenomenon that the bigger the rig gets the less games the people actually play. I even noticed it with myself and a friend of mine. (not that I actually have a good PC, but I played more with my old PC I guess)

880 is going to be a fine gamer card and will be a good bang for your buck (I hope)


----------



## ladcrooks

if they have come up with way of exploiting an old architecture and it gives way more fps then i wouldn't worry!

I sometimes ponder on all this die shrinkage - something has to give.

bit like a car engine, v8's can be made to go quicker than a bog standard


----------



## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iSlayer*
> 
> Because Nvidia does crazy stuff and we expect them to sell us the equivalent of a 780 Ti at the same price in a cash grab attempt and then unveilt the 880 isn't the real flagship but the Titan is. And then later bust out the 880 Ti once they're done milking the people who thought the Titan would be the ultimate and head after those who want that performance but at a lower price point.


Exactly, except they'll probably release the Ti with the 900 series and milk us there.

880 GM204
~1 year later
Titan 2 GM210
3 months later
980 GM210
5 months later
980Ti GM210 (fully unlocked)

Milk everyone with a GM204, then BAM look at our true high end, only costs $999!

This time I think more people will be more weary with Titan 2, although many will probably go out and buy it anyway


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> Correction - many people dont think it will be good enough, for the price point and range its being released as in particular.


Considering that we have absolutely no idea what the performance, price point, or range of it will be, that seems a bit premature.


----------



## bhav

Another problem with waiting so long for the 980 Ti, and then even longer for the lightning / matrix / classy versions is that by then the next range will already be due in a few months.


----------



## Internet Swag

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> Hardly a scam.
> 
> But lets say its 15% faster, theyre also going to consume much less power and run a lot cooler too.


This is a trend in the tech industry that's really starting to get old imo
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> That is not what the people are afraid of. People who think that the 880 is going to be worse than 780 Ti are not in their right mind.
> 
> What some people are actually afraid of is that the 880 is only going to be the fastest GPU for a short time. And especially on overclock.net and other enthusiast places the users strife for ultra High-End.
> 
> They wait for something "bigger". They feel cheated because they actually care more about the specifications than the actual performance. Guess this has more to do with being enthusiastic about the hardware and less about the games.
> 
> It is a funny phenomenon that the bigger the rig gets the less games the people actually play. I even noticed it with myself and a friend of mine. (not that I actually have a good PC, but I played more with my old PC I guess)
> 
> 880 is going to be a fine gamer card and will be a good bang for your buck (I hope)


It's true, I spend all my time window shopping instead of gaming, I have enough money to upgrade, but I'm always like... 'not yet'. I actually bought an i7 4790 but sold it without even opening it -_-


----------



## fateswarm

The 880 is 20nm 512bit VRAM bus on 4GB.

Or it should be.


----------



## SirWaWa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iSlayer*
> 
> Because Nvidia does crazy stuff and we expect them to sell us the equivalent of a 780 Ti at the same price in a cash grab attempt and then unveilt the 880 isn't the real flagship but the Titan is. And then later bust out the 880 Ti once they're done milking the people who thought the Titan would be the ultimate and head after those who want that performance but at a lower price point.


this
I have a feeling I may have to wait longer than November...


----------



## Doomtomb

If the 880 is more than $500 I have no interest in this series.


----------



## StrongForce

And we have to remember that even if it's "only" a 15% performance increase it's still 15%.. 15% of a 780 is alot I guess.. as the cards power grows exponentially, also 15% with stock card, then overclocked models 20-25%, then when you overclock those 30-35% (hopefully !)


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> That is not what the people are afraid of. *People who think that the 880 is going to be worse than 780 Ti are not in their right mind.*
> 
> What some people are actually afraid of is that the 880 is only going to be the fastest GPU for a short time. And especially on overclock.net and other enthusiast places the users strife for ultra High-End.
> 
> They wait for something "bigger". They feel cheated because they actually care more about the specifications than the actual performance. Guess this has more to do with being enthusiastic about the hardware and less about the games.
> 
> It is a funny phenomenon that the bigger the rig gets the less games the people actually play. I even noticed it with myself and a friend of mine. (not that I actually have a good PC, but I played more with my old PC I guess)
> 
> 880 is going to be a fine gamer card and will be a good bang for your buck (I hope)


Wait a minute, are there people here who have actually said they don't think the 880 will be as fast as the 780Ti??? I can't believe that!!! I think that the 880 will be a bit of a disappointment based on 28nm Maxwell architecture, only besting the 780Ti by 20-30% but it will certainly be faster...


----------



## bhav

I think 20-30% may be a little bit over optimistic


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Lol, I don't think I've ever seen a new flagship card released that didn't beat its predecessor by at least 20%. Maybe I'm wrong though...


----------



## Pantsu

It depends on what the 880 is. If it's using a midrange chip like the 680, then yes, it might not reach 780ti levels, that's depending on what chip size they'll end up with. As it seems the chips are 28 nm you can't expect massive node improvements, just some architectural optimizations.


----------



## bhav

Well the 750 ti does show that the new Maxwell core is mighty power efficient for its performance.

If they just put together 5x 750 ti cores for 3200 shaders and a 256 bit bus, that will be very decent.

But I want big Maxwell.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pantsu*
> 
> It depends on what the 880 is. If it's using a midrange chip like the 680, then yes, it might not reach 780ti levels, that's depending on what chip size they'll end up with.


LOL, not happening.... you clearly haven't been around the game very long if you think that's going to be even a possibility.


----------



## Pantsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> LOL, not happening.... you clearly haven't been around the game very long if you think that's going to be even a possibility.


¨

Long enough to ignore people who fanboy over things with little basis on reality.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pantsu*
> 
> ¨
> 
> Long enough to ignore people who fanboy over things with little basis on reality.


It has nothing to do with brand preference, but feel free to dismiss common sense as a bias. Oh, and here's a rolleyes smiley for you too







!


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Nvidia wouldn't release an 880 that wasn't at least 20% faster than its predecessor...


----------



## Pantsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> It has nothing to do with brand preference, but feel free to dismiss common sense as a bias. Oh, and here's a rolleyes smiley for you too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !


It has everything to do with people expecting some sort of magic from Nvidia every time they release a new generation of cards. 2X perf, ½ power consumption etc. On the same node, for half the price of course. Now yes, it would be common sense that 880 would be faster than a 780Ti. The logic in naming Nvidia GPUs has never been of "common sense". It could be just as well that the new 880 is a successor to the 680, and the 780Ti is replaced by 980Ti. It's all semantics really. What I was getting at is that we don't know what size chip we'll end up getting, and all this talk of 880/880Ti or whatever is simply speculation.

While the 750Ti was a success and improved perf/watt greatly, it doesn't necessarily translate well into high end. Think Fermi and 480 compared to a 460. Going past 780Ti in performance with a smaller chip on the same node will require massive architecture improvements. Of course they'll eventually make a GM110, but as far as I'm aware, it isn't expected for this year.


----------



## Pantsu

double...


----------



## MoBeeJ

gtx 880 is a successor of the gtx 780 (non ti). Am sure we wil see marketing slides saying so (even if is faster than TI).


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> LOL, not happening.... you clearly haven't been around the game very long if you think that's going to be even a possibility.


Why? It's unlikely to not be a successor but it wouldn't be a first. Remember the 8800GT.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Lol, I don't think I've ever seen a new flagship card released that didn't beat its predecessor by at least 20%. Maybe I'm wrong though...


580s were only marginally faster than 480s, especially overclocked.


----------



## Silent Scone

We don't even know what the naming scheme is for these chips either.


----------



## pbvider

I really hope that this new GPU`s are coming in fall because I need to make my sweet 750Ti Oc in to a PhysX Card.


----------



## Silent Scone

Surprised people still bother with using a GPU dedicated to PhysX. Not because I have any aversion to PhysX in games but seeing as it's still rather CPU bound the gains aren't all that spectacular. Especially if you're planning on running a spanking new GM204 in it's place.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pantsu*
> 
> It has everything to do with people expecting some sort of magic from Nvidia every time they release a new generation of cards. 2X perf, ½ power consumption etc. On the same node, for half the price of course. Now yes, it would be common sense that 880 would be faster than a 780Ti. The logic in naming Nvidia GPUs has never been of "common sense". It could be just as well that the new 880 is a successor to the 680, and the 780Ti is replaced by 980Ti. It's all semantics really. What I was getting at is that we don't know what size chip we'll end up getting, and all this talk of 880/880Ti or whatever is simply speculation.
> 
> While the 750Ti was a success and improved perf/watt greatly, it doesn't necessarily translate well into high end. Think Fermi and 480 compared to a 460. Going past 780Ti in performance with a smaller chip on the same node will require massive architecture improvements. Of course they'll eventually make a GM110, but as far as I'm aware, it isn't expected for this year.


To me the 880 needs to be faster than the 780 Ti (even if it is only 5%!) for Nvidia to even bother with the release.


----------



## Wirerat

I cant wait for these to drop. Then I can grab a 780/780ti when the flood of them go on sale used.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wirerat*
> 
> I cant wait for these to drop. Then I can grab a 780/780ti when the flood of them go on sale used.


You might see yourself buying a lower end Maxwell.


----------



## Millillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Pantsu*
> 
> It has everything to do with people expecting some sort of magic from Nvidia every time they release a new generation of cards. 2X perf, ½ power consumption etc. On the same node, for half the price of course. Now yes, it would be common sense that 880 would be faster than a 780Ti. The logic in naming Nvidia GPUs has never been of "common sense". It could be just as well that the new 880 is a successor to the 680, and the 780Ti is replaced by 980Ti. It's all semantics really. What I was getting at is that we don't know what size chip we'll end up getting, and all this talk of 880/880Ti or whatever is simply speculation.
> 
> While the 750Ti was a success and improved perf/watt greatly, it doesn't necessarily translate well into high end. Think Fermi and 480 compared to a 460. Going past 780Ti in performance with a smaller chip on the same node will require massive architecture improvements. Of course they'll eventually make a GM110, but as far as I'm aware, it isn't expected for this year.
> 
> 
> 
> To me the 880 needs to be faster than the 780 Ti (even if it is only 5%!) for Nvidia to even bother with the release.
Click to expand...

This most importantly. If it weren't, they'd just be filling gaps between their own products that don't need to be filled.


----------



## iSlayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Exactly, except they'll probably release the Ti with the 900 series and milk us there.
> 
> 880 GM204
> ~1 year later
> Titan 2 GM210
> 3 months later
> 980 GM210
> 5 months later
> 980Ti GM210 (fully unlocked)
> 
> Milk everyone with a GM204, then BAM look at our true high end, only costs $999!
> 
> This time I think more people will be more weary with Titan 2, although many will probably go out and buy it anyway


I forgot about the Titan Z 2. Where is that going to fit though.


----------



## Capt

I'll have to put my house for sale if I want to get a Titan-Z 2.


----------



## bhav

I am thinking that the GTX 880 will probably be 3200 cores, and 870 2560, based on the 750 ti having 640, but that's with 5 individual clusters so it could be anything in between.

3200 Maxwell cores should beat the 780 ti, and 2560 would probably be around the 780s performance.

All this is speculation and opinion.


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> I am thinking that the GTX 880 will probably be 3200 cores, and 870 2560, based on the 750 ti having 640, but that's with 5 individual clusters so it could be anything in between.
> 
> 3200 Maxwell cores should beat the 780 ti, and 2560 would probably be around the 780s performance.
> 
> All this is speculation and opinion.


Based on the supposed gm204 chip we've seen (that is smaller than the GK110) wouldn't that mean for 3200 cores to happen that it'd have to be on the 20nm process or be the unseen GM200? Or are Maxwell cores also significantly more space efficient?


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CasualCat*
> 
> Based on the supposed gm204 chip we've seen (that is smaller than the GK110) wouldn't that mean for 3200 cores to happen that it'd have to be on the 20nm process or be the unseen GM200? Or are Maxwell cores also significantly more space efficient?


Maxwell cores are significantly more space efficient. Source
Quote:


> NVIDIA hasn't given us hard numbers on SMM power efficiency, but for space efficiency a single 128 CUDA core SMM can deliver 90% of the performance of a 192 CUDA core SMX at a much smaller size.


Edit: Actually, that didn't address your question. I'm not sure if the actual core size is changing (independent of any potential shrink to 20nm, at least). But, one thing this does mean is that the raw CUDA core count for the 880 may be less than we would otherwise expect based on the trendline of Kepler, especially if it's still at 28nm. If it does go 20nm, all bets are off as far as what sort of count we might get.


----------



## MagicBox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I expect nothing less than a rinse/repeat cycle of the 600/Titan/700 Series. GM204 for the 800's this fall, Double Memory GM200 with DP in a $1K Titan variant in 1H2015, and the rest of the standard memory GM200's with no DP for the 900 series in 2H2015. Of course, if AMD does something that forces something else, that would be great, but I expect nVidia to follow the same profit milking strategy if they're able to.
> 
> I will be waiting for non-Titan full GM200 as opposed to buying every iterative flagship along the way this time. It will be hard to resist the GM204 cards, but I'm just going to have to suck it up.


Wise talking, the 880 looks enticing, but given that it's 28nm and not the full Maxwell it's better to wait.. if you can wait.


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Maxwell cores are significantly more space efficient. Source
> Edit: Actually, that didn't address your question. I'm not sure if the actual core size is changing (independent of any potential shrink to 20nm, at least). But, one thing this does mean is that the raw CUDA core count for the 880 may be less than we would otherwise expect based on the trendline of Kepler, especially if it's still at 28nm. If it does go 20nm, all bets are off as far as what sort of count we might get.


Yeah as I read that (and I could be reading it completely wrong) I get the impression it is more space efficient in that it does more with less cores not that it crams more cores into the same space.

Not sure if this is even a legit way to do it but looking at cores per square mm I get this:
chip cores per
gk107 3.254237288
gm107 4.324324324
gk106 4.485981308
gk104 5.224489796
gk110 5.236363636

(edited order)

ETA: Using the GK110's density number and the 2560 number we've seen before would put die size at 488 which is close to what people were estimating based off the die picture of gm204 that was floating around.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MagicBox*
> 
> Wise talking, the 880 looks enticing, but given that it's 28nm and not the full Maxwell it's better to wait.. if you can wait.


That *isn't* a given. We don't know yet.


----------



## iamimpossible

if the 880 is as fast as a 780ti id be quite happy but would like the following:

consumes less power
lower temps
quieter
scales better in sli, tri sli etc
HDMI 2.0 (or at least 1.4b)


----------



## Silent Scone

Well if the leaked score is to believed what so ever, the graphics score seems to be in line (63**) with a reference 780Ti running over 1300 core.



http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/2680262?

...Make of that what you will lol. I'll say no more


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iamimpossible*
> 
> if the 880 is as fast as a 780ti id be quite happy but would like the following:
> 
> consumes less power
> lower temps
> quieter
> scales better in sli, tri sli etc
> HDMI 2.0 (or at least 1.4b)


It should feature all of these and probably be faster than the 780ti.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> Well if the leaked score is to believed what so ever, the graphics score seems to be in line (63**) with a reference 780Ti running over 1300 core.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/2680262?
> 
> ...Make of that what you will lol. I'll say no more


It seems impressive and that is probably reference with standard clocks. Classified should offer substantially more performance and overclocking headroom. The Gigabyte G1 and msi Lightning as well. So far though only Gigabyte has been hinted to release within the launch window.


----------



## iamimpossible

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pterois*
> 
> It should feature all of these and probably be faster than the 780ti.


Also should be faster then an R9 295x2 in SLI


----------



## Cooknn

Hopefully the price of the 780 Ti will come down when these hit the streets. I want to go SLI without breaking the bank


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iamimpossible*
> 
> Also should be faster then an R9 295x2 in SLI


Definitely!!!


----------



## fateswarm

It will be considering the FPS of AMD in SLI is 0.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cooknn*
> 
> Hopefully the price of the 780 Ti will come down when these hit the streets. I want to go SLI without breaking the bank


The price will go down after a while as NVIDIA will want to get rid of their 'old' stock. Pay attention to promotions and even out of box sales. You may make your SLI dream happen at less than you expect. I got a friend who just spent 720 euros on a 780 Ti and when I asked him how does it feel to spend so much money on this when Maxwell is just around the corner he said : 'dude, I am never going back to AMD. This card? I have no words to explain how it runs and I will be getting a second one'.


----------



## Shadowarez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cooknn*
> 
> Hopefully the price of the 780 Ti will come down when these hit the streets. I want to go SLI without breaking the bank


Nvidia could pull what they did with the 780's and just throw in a Ridiculous amount of "Free" games to keep prices up.


----------



## rdr09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pterois*
> 
> Definitely!!!


290 using old driver . . .

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/2098310


----------



## Cooknn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*
> 
> The price will go down after a while as NVIDIA will want to get rid of their 'old' stock. Pay attention to promotions and even out of box sales. You may make your SLI dream happen at less than you expect. I got a friend who just spent 720 euros on a 780 Ti and when I asked him how does it feel to spend so much money on this when Maxwell is just around the corner he said : 'dude, I am never going back to AMD. This card? I have no words to explain how it runs and I will be getting a second one'.


Thanks for the heads up! I've been watching this link at PriceGrabber but I may have to broaden my search in order to find open box deals. I did ask JJ at Asus (on his blog) if they had one laying around the office - to no avail


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdr09*
> 
> 290 using old driver . . .
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/2098310


Nice score! Nevertheless a 780ti SLI setup gives better performance in most games than the R9 295X2, that is why if the GTX 880 has better performance than the GTX 780ti it will fair better than the 295X2 when 2 of them are coupled together. Especially if maxwell scales better in SLI.


----------



## Silent Scone

lol that 290 is balls to wall at 1330. If legitimate that leaked score will be at stock clocks. Not to mention, not all 290s will be able to reach those clocks


----------



## rdr09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pterois*
> 
> Nice score! Nevertheless a 780ti SLI setup gives better performance in most games than the R9 295X2, that is why if the GTX 880 has better performance than the GTX 780ti it will fair better than the 295X2 when 2 of them are couple together. Especially if maxwell scales better in SLI.


that's the advantage of the 780s and so will the 880s for sure. they can oc higher. if only the current Ti's have more than 3GB.


----------



## Boomstick727

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> lol that 290 is balls to wall at 1330. If legitimate that leaked score will be at stock clocks. Not to mention, not all 290s will be able to reach those clocks


+1 if the stock GTX 880 can beat that 290 overclocked to near death, than the 880 might actually be a beast!


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boomstick727*
> 
> +1 if the stock GTX 880 can beat that 290 overclocked to near death, than the 880 might actually be a beast!


Yea man imagine the OC models... OC to the max


----------



## rdr09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boomstick727*
> 
> +1 if the stock GTX 880 can beat that 290 overclocked to near death, than the 880 might actually be a beast!


no need for an 880. your Titan should beat my 290 easy.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> Yea man imagine the OC models... OC to the max


This is why I don't get why people end up pooh-poohing Maxwell's focus on efficiency.

High-end graphics cards are power limited, either in supplying it or exhausting yet. More efficiency = higher performance maximum.


----------



## StrongForce

Yea I like the power efficiency.. after all you save on your electricity bill ! and also, less power = less heat which is good eh ? plus for overclocking..


----------



## Clocknut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bhav*
> 
> Well the 750 ti does show that the new Maxwell core is mighty power efficient for its performance.
> 
> If they just put together 5x 750 ti cores for 3200 shaders and a 256 bit bus, that will be very decent.
> 
> But I want big Maxwell.


how can u get 5x memory bandwidth on 256bit bus? 750ti is already 128bit @ 5400.. I guess Nvidia must have found a way to clock GDDR5 @ 13500Mhz.


----------



## nleksan

All my 780Ti' have exceeded 8Ghz effective memory clock easily, with the Classifieds hitting around 8050-8200, and my KPE'S doing 8300-8400 at 24/7 clocks/voltage.

However, using memory bus width to determine performance is akin to using the cylinder count of the engine of a car to determine performance... There are SO MANY MORE FACTORS that while there is some level of correlation, it's impossible for it to be causation... Otherwise, a 290/290X would be faster than my KPE'S by 60 percent, instead of slower by 15-20 percent...

The Xbox 360 had a fairly unremarkable GPU, just like the current consoles now both do, but a group of people far smarter than us figured a way to use EDRAM to, in almost all real world instances, provide a 50GB/sec+ link to the CPU instead of the GDDR3's throughput of something like 1/6th the speed... Just like the addition of forced induction (turbocharger/supercharger) to a little econobox's 4cyl motor, when done right, can result in a vehicle that is faster than a (pseudo) "sporty-ish" car like a Mustang/Camaro/Challenger which have large V8's between their fenders...

I would be willing to bet that they've been working around this issue for a long time, and within a year or two we'll at least start to see the results. Meanwhile, AMD has reached the practical limit for bus width, via their typical brute force, harder not smarter, approaches to making a hopefully competitive product by these knee Jerk "Moar coarz/ROPS!" designs that have occasionally succeeded (R9) but have failed far worse (CPU's).
If they don't get a big talent into their GPU design team, as Jim Keller is for their processor side, I fear they will continuellosing ground, and that's bad for everyone; I have not found any of the dozens of AMD parts I've owned the last few years to be anything special, with the 7970 and to a lesser extent the 290X Lightnings being "almost", but a company doesn't spill black ink if they are dependent on a flagship or halo product for profit...


----------



## HeadlessKnight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> However, using memory bus width to determine performance is akin to using the cylinder count of the engine of a car to determine performance... There are SO MANY MORE FACTORS that while there is some level of correlation, it's impossible for it to be causation... Otherwise, a 290/290X would be faster than my KPE'S by 60 percent, instead of slower by 15-20 percent... .


That 60% considering the performance scales perfectly with the bus which it isn't. 290 series have less performance impact at higher resolutions due to their wider-bus than your 780 Ti's.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/R9_290_Vapor-X/25.html

780 Ti went from 19% faster at 1600x900 to a meager 5% at 3840x2160 . And it has higher bandwidth than 290X at stock clocks.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> I would be willing to bet that they've been working around this issue for a long time, and within a year or two we'll at least start to see the results. Meanwhile, AMD has reached the practical limit for bus width, via their typical brute force, harder not smarter, approaches to making a hopefully competitive product by these knee Jerk "Moar coarz/ROPS!" designs that have occasionally succeeded (R9) but have failed far worse (CPU's).
> If they don't get a big talent into their GPU design team, as Jim Keller is for their processor side, I fear they will continuellosing ground, and that's bad for everyone; I have not found any of the dozens of AMD parts I've owned the last few years to be anything special, with the 7970 and to a lesser extent the 290X Lightnings being "almost", but a company doesn't spill black ink if they are dependent on a flagship or halo product for profit...


Bottom line filled with AMD hate....
AMD is currently doing pretty well in GPU department and they are innovative. With all things being equal more cores/ rops will always end up bringing more performance than lesser cores/ rops. It is very impressive what AMD did considering the die size. GTX 880 of course will be better if it has 512-bit, and its performance scaling won't be 100% faster due to its double bus than the planned 256-bit, but there will be less fps impact at higher resolutions/ high AA levels and in demanding games due to its higher bus.


----------



## Boomstick727

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdr09*
> 
> no need for an 880. your Titan should beat my 290 easy.


Yeah but the Titan's are priced much higher. If the 880 comes in priced well with that level of performance it will be a good card imho.

I'm running an R9 270 atm, need to update my sig


----------



## Silent Scone

The 512bit bus on Hawaii is a bit of a paper tiger IMO. Yes the extra bandwidth is pushing the card along well at higher resolutions, but not half as well as it should. When Nvidia inevitably put a 512bit bus on their high end parts, I sure as hell hope they use memory that clocks well. There is a lot the 290 does well, it is both in long and short terms a more capable product let down by what can only be described as corner cutting with use of the same PCB and sub par reference cooling.

I wouldn't so much call using a 512bit bus brute force, it's more supplying an adequate one. In their defense they have marketed the 290x at 4K very hard, and this is where it shines in particular, no matter how much (IMO) we're a little short still for that.

I think if asked, Nvidia would tell you they very much optimise everything with the mindset that people still use 1080p. Which is realistic for the most part. I genuinely don't think they have any aces up their sleeve with this bus, it is what it is which is restrictive. The only consolation will be if they use blistering GDDR5, which whilst that will have it's own benefits, is in no way a substitute as if I'm not mistaken even with 2Ghz, would only equate to 256GB/s.

Whilst Maxwell could very well be a super efficient architecture, there is no doubt in my mind this card is crippled both in these terms and others like shader capabilities. Who are we to argue when it will likely still be the fastest thing out there


----------



## fateswarm

As if we know if bus width alone tells anything. It's one factor. Though I doubt the tiny maxwells definitely scale well on large.


----------



## Shadowarez

Has there been any word on the maxwell's that have the Quad-core or Octa-Core SoC built into the gpu? Seems everywere iv looked it was only mentioned in one to sentences then forgotten.


----------



## nyk20z3

Wasn't the 880 suppose to be announced at Gamescom ?


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> I wouldn't so much call using a 512bit bus brute force, it's more supplying an adequate one. In their defense they have marketed the 290x at 4K very hard, and this is where it shines in particular, no matter how much (IMO) we're a little short still for that.
> 
> I think if asked, Nvidia would tell you they very much optimise everything with the mindset that people still use 1080p. Which is realistic for the most part. I genuinely don't think they have any aces up their sleeve with this bus, it is what it is which is restrictive. The only consolation will be if they use blistering GDDR5, which whilst that will have it's own benefits, is in no way a substitute as if I'm not mistaken even with 2Ghz, would only equate to 256GB/s.


I agree and would add...

I also think Nvidia is Primarily focused on their parallel to Intel which is to always apply performance across Business and Consumer lines, and engineer accordingly. One leg of this table is to only deliver the "perceived" needed amount of performance to achieve the next years revenue stream comfortably while not jeopardizing the following years tech by putting all cards on the table.

Obviously Nvidia could have engineered wider bus along with other components to deliver cards to make it work at 4K brilliantly...my opinion. However does this waste money in engineering by going way beyond what the market is actually going to use Now.

By the end of this year, 4K and beyond resolutions will still be such a miniscule niche that basically Nvidia has not really engineered for it. Sure they've let the marketing guys go wild promising everything, but as of yet we've only seen token support for 4K. It's just not here yet in large enough numbers for them to put all their engineers and focus into it to deliver rock solid 4K now.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> Wasn't the 880 suppose to be announced at Gamescom ?


Why are you speaking of Gamescom in the past tense? It isn't over yet... it ends tomorrow night.


----------



## nyk20z3

How was I suppse to know that ?

Also it prob would have been announced by now so I answered my own question then.


----------



## Ghoxt

Here's the live feed just in case you understand German and Jen surprises us all and shows up....doubt it.

http://www.twitch.tv/taketv/


----------



## StrongForce

So tomorow they have to announce the 880 and also if valve could annouce source 2, l4d3 and hl3, would make my day.


----------



## Astral Fly

I think we already know Nvidia have invited selected press to an event in the middle of september where they likely will announce the 800 series gpu's.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> How was I suppse to know that ?
> 
> Also it prob would have been announced by now so I answered my own question then.


If you say so. It's common knowledge and is available on the gamescom event schedule too.

But it's being announced most likely at the nVidia presser.


----------



## nyk20z3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> If you say so. It's common knowledge and is available on the gamescom event schedule too.
> 
> But it's being announced most likely at the nVidia presser.


I've never even heard of Gamescom until this year,I wait for people to post updates here so I would have never checked there site.

Just sold my 780 Lighting so I am willing to dedicate $800 to the best that the 800 series has to offer.I will be gone for 6 months on deployment so that leaves plenty of time for every non reference card to drop for me to choose from.


----------



## seithan

So tomorrow, thete are hopes we get an announcement from Nvidia? Im brimming with expectation, all this hype has finally got under my skin.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *seithan*
> 
> So tomorrow, thete are hopes we get an announcement from Nvidia? Im brimming with expectation, all this hype has finally got under my skin.


There will 100% be an announcement regarding new GPUs. Whether you'll be impressed or not is another matter


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> There will 100% be an announcement regarding new GPUs. Whether you'll be impressed or not is another matter


Did I miss something?

Going by your wording I'd say something boring is going to happen tomorrow? AMD 285?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Did I miss something?
> 
> Going by your wording I'd say something boring is going to happen tomorrow? AMD 285?


lol I genuinely don't know what it will be but it's been confirmed to be a GPU. So far, what has leaked RE GM204 hasn't been all that impressive.

I'm sure some people are itching to upgrade though


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> lol I genuinely don't know what it will be but it's been confirmed to be a GPU. So far, what has leaked RE GM204 hasn't been all that impressive.
> 
> I'm sure some people are itching to upgrade though


would you mind sharing where this confirmation is coming from?


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> There will 100% be an announcement regarding new GPUs. Whether you'll be impressed or not is another matter


So you know for sure that there will be an announcement tomorrow and not just a tease with the official announcement at the press event next month.
The unimpressive argument you are basing on the leaks nothing else that you might have heard.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> I've never even heard of Gamescom until this year,I wait for people to post updates here so I would have never checked there site.
> 
> Just sold my 780 Lighting so I am willing to dedicate $800 to the best that the 800 series has to offer.I will be gone for 6 months on deployment so that leaves plenty of time for every non reference card to drop for me to choose from.


So if you don't know something you should ask, not state things at random in the hopes they're right and spread misinformation.









Silent Scone is not alone in saying what he's saying, seeing another guy claiming the same thing but that retailers already have cards.


----------



## KenjiS

I always wait for the benchmarks...

Spec sheets lie, Benchmarks are all that matter


----------



## zealord

I love this time when we know there is an impending new GeForce series coming and we kind of know what to expect, but we are still all super excited for the actual product


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> I love this time when we know there is an impending new GeForce series coming and we kind of know what to expect, but we are still all super excited for the actual product


Always a fun time







. "Geforce grand finale" at gamescom is 11am Eastern tomorrow morning (8/17). Let's see what happens!


----------



## cutty1998

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocknut*
> 
> Console developers are force to design the game around the console's spec which is...a machine with Low multi-core CPU + midrange GPU with a very high RAM/VRAM capacity. When they are going to run the game @ 720p 30fps, they are not going to leave those extra Ram sitting idle, they are going throw everything they can into the RAM/Vram to use it.
> 
> to build A gaming PC to capable to run most next gen console port, we have.
> quad core CPU = more than enough vs the 8 core tablet CPU
> GPU = a high end GPU is already almost twice as fast.
> System ram = we have 8/16GB already
> 
> What is not enough is VRAM.
> 
> Xbox/PS4 is design to have at least 5yrs life cycle. Keep thinking that we dont need 8GB vram ever. *these people is probably also the same people who think 2GB is excessive 4 yrs ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I seriously hope the gtx880 is at least a 384bit/6GB, not another 3GB variant.


You're right.I remember years ago ,when I got my first desktop PC,and I was so pumped,it was a Sony Vaio back in 97' I think ,and it had an ATI all in wonder graphics card with TV tuner & .................4MB Vram! Anyway ,I was working at some programer's home ,and I told him about my system ,and mentioned it had a 4GB HDD,and he got all annoyed,and scoffed that no one in a million years would ever ,ever need 4GB of Hard drive space ! I disagreed,as I had already got turned onto to winamp player and MP3's .I couldn't believe how cool that was !Some people have tunnel vision.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> So if you don't know something you should ask, not state things at random in the hopes they're right and spread misinformation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Silent Scone is not alone in saying what he's saying, seeing another guy claiming the same thing but that retailers already have cards.


Reference or custom too?


----------



## seithan

So what happened at Gamescon?


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> So if you don't know something you should ask, not state things at random in the hopes they're right and spread misinformation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Silent Scone is not alone in saying what he's saying, seeing another guy claiming the same thing but that retailers already have cards.


I don't pretend to know anything outside of NDA but through various people and old connections with first tier distributors there is definitely something right on the cusp. It's pretty obvious with all the hype that's the case anyway. That said, part of me personally is hoping it's not anything big just yet as I'd rather spend the money on X99









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *seithan*
> 
> So what happened at Gamescon?


Gamescon isn't over yet.


----------



## Threx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Always a fun time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . "Geforce grand finale" at gamescom is 11am Eastern tomorrow morning (8/17). Let's see what happens!


Isn't that 1 hour from now? Anyone know the link to the stream?


----------



## Alatar

http://www.twitch.tv/taketv

some nvidia stuff


----------



## zealord

super cringe stream. be glad if you don't understand what they are saying.

I just don't see them announcing the 880 there. it is way too small and nahh it just won't happen.


----------



## Alatar

Pretty much yeah. And honestly if the thing is launching mid-late next month then they wouldn't talk about it yet.

E: and if NV announces something the announcement will be made by jensen, not some random PR guy.


----------



## Ghoxt

Two days of listening to that stream in German and that girl host on stage screaming Nvidia! is driving me to drink, especially that "Nvidia" is one of the few words I understand.

They are giving away tons of stuff, MITX PC's etc, and the kids look to be having a ball.

OT:

Good thing I'm working at the moment, I'm Oncall this weekend







so really can't get away...so might as well listen to the stream. /kill me please.


----------



## Mand12

It's worth pointing out that we never _knew_ that they were going to announce 880 at Gamescom. Only that they were going, and were excited for some reason. The time fit a plausible window, and it is a gaming event, so it was reasonable to think it was possible, but it was far from guaranteed.

At this point I'm more banking on the press event invites in September.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> It's worth pointing out that we never _knew_ that they were going to announce 880 at Gamescom. Only that they were going, and were excited for some reason. The time fit a plausible window, and it is a gaming event, so it was reasonable to think it was possible, but it was far from guaranteed.
> 
> At this point I'm more banking on the press event invites in September.


I'm not counting it out just yet.... Who knows, Jen may make an appearance at the "GeForce grand finale"...







if we're lucky.

About 30 minutes to go until we know!


----------



## seithan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Threx*
> 
> Isn't that 1 hour from now? Anyone know the link to the stream?


11am has been and gone. Probably referring to 11pm, wgich is yet to come. For the US its 7hours from now.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *seithan*
> 
> 11am has been and gone. Probably referring to 11pm, wgich is yet to come. For the US its 7hours from now.


Nope. It is set for 11am Eastern (GeForce grand finale). Go convert the timezones







. AKA 30 minutes from now.


----------



## CasualCat

They appear to be starting early as it is starting now.

ETA: Ugh my German is so rusty...


----------



## seithan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Nope. It is set for 11am Eastern (GeForce grand finale). Go convert the timezones
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . AKA 30 minutes from now.


Eastern as in "Eastern Pacific Time"? clarification needed.


----------



## Menta

liking the blonds xD


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *seithan*
> 
> Eastern as in "Eastern Pacific Time"? clarification needed.


Go look up Germany's timezone







. Convert to Eastern. Win.


----------



## provost

Haven't seen so many geeks getting excited on techno music since a gaming conference I happen to stumble onto on my trips to San Fran a while back. Quite funny, in a cute way, I guess...lol
Something soon then, it looks like


----------



## kingduqc

anyone got a link for the livestream or how it's named?

edit:

Time to learn german in the next 5 minute.


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingduqc*
> 
> anyone got a link for the livestream or how it's named?


http://www.twitch.tv/taketv/


----------



## John Shepard

So are they going to announce anything or am i just wasting my time watching this garbage?


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *John Shepard*
> 
> So are they going to announce anything or am i just wasting my time watching this garbage?


Someone else claimed there will be an announcement, but who knows.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *John Shepard*
> 
> So are they going to announce anything or am i just wasting my time watching this garbage?


Who knows? We'll find out soon(tm).


----------



## Roelv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *John Shepard*
> 
> So are they going to announce anything or am i just wasting my time watching this garbage?


Probably wasting your time, they are going to hand out a free GTX 760 now.


----------



## John Shepard

Idk,i just don't see them announcing the 800 series on a conference this..small.


----------



## Silent Scone

They're gonna show Shield streaming lol. Oh well roll on September


----------



## mcg75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *John Shepard*
> 
> So are they going to announce anything or am i just wasting my time watching this garbage?


I sincerely doubt it. I could only take watching 15 seconds of that nonsense and turned it off.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> They're gonna show Shield streaming lol. Oh well roll on September


----------



## Ghoxt

Nothing was announced, it's over.... September here we come.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> Nothing was announced, it's over.... September here we come.


Bah, humbug! But yea, they're closing down...


----------



## Menta

SEEMS LIKE THE END? what a load of crap.LOL


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> SEEMS LIKE THE END? what a load of crap.LOL


QFT, why would they call it a "GeForce grand finale" as though it were something special for a T-shirt giveaway...?


----------



## Threx

Nvidia

The way it's meant to be given away.


----------



## i7monkey

"Thank you for an amazing gamescon! Nvidia!"

lolz it's over


----------



## Menta

Nvidia is sneaky as all ways ..keeping the fan base in "check" wondering about...


----------



## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> Nvidia is sneaky as all ways ..keeping the fan base in "check" wondering about...


They do this to build hype and guage desperation level so they know how badly to bend us over when it comes out.

I swear to god by the time Titan 2 rolls out with it's sexy 4000+ core 512-bit body people are gonna say they'll drop $1200 on it


----------



## nemm

I thought earlier that nothing would be announced, shame.
With the only details we have is rumours with nothing concrete I guess my H-E build will be going minus graphics for a while. Thinking about it I may as well just wait until 8x0 release before I buy anything more for the build as prices may have dropped if lucky and any bugs to be ironed out. Not that there is anything wrong with Kepler series but I am not willing to put older tech in a brand new build not knowing anything about the successor due to be released soon(hopefully).

Time to (im)patiently wait


----------



## Icekilla

Would an i7 3770k hold back a GTX 870?


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Icekilla*
> 
> Would an i7 3770k hold back a GTX 870?


no way lol. not even close.


----------



## Exilon

Some of you guys are hilarious. Don't blame Nvidia when your own speculation fails to pan out.


----------



## serothis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nemm*
> 
> I thought earlier that nothing would be announced, shame.
> With the only details we have is rumours with nothing concrete I guess my H-E build will be going minus graphics for a while. Thinking about it I may as well just wait until 8x0 release before I buy anything more for the build as prices may have dropped if lucky and any bugs to be ironed out. Not that there is anything wrong with Kepler series but I am not willing to put older tech in a brand new build not knowing anything about the successor due to be released soon(hopefully).
> 
> Time to (im)patiently wait


would it be a sin to build a haswell-e rig then pop in my old 580 as a place holder until maxwell drops?









In all serious though i'm waiting, before I get anything. hopefully ddr4 prices will come down to reasonable levels...or we hear something about skylake (broadwell isn't out and it already bores me)


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> They do this to build hype and guage desperation level so they know how badly to bend us over when it comes out.
> 
> I swear to god by the time Titan 2 rolls out with it's sexy 4000+ core 512-bit body people are gonna say they'll drop $1200 on it


AMD is having a live webcast on Aug 23 to celebrate 30 years of graphics and gaming and they might announce or introduce something.
Nvidia could be waiting to see what's coming from the red team and have their own press event at the beginning of September to announce what they need to compete with AMD's offerings.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent Scone*
> 
> There will 100% be an announcement regarding new GPUs. Whether you'll be impressed or not is another matter


There wasn't any announcement so what now? If retailers already have cards then the press event should probably be in early September with the release following immediately or soon after.
Maybe they are waiting for AMD's live webcast on Aug 23 to see if they announce anything.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pterois*
> 
> There wasn't any announcement so what now? If retailers already have cards then the press event should probably be in early September with the release following immediately or soon after.
> Maybe they are waiting for AMD's live webcast on Aug 23 to see if they announce anything.


I am pretty sure retailers don't have cards yet. We would have had pictures leaked by now then.


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exilon*
> 
> Some of you guys are hilarious. Don't blame Nvidia when your own speculation fails to pan out.


Actually they have been tweeting and teasing about gamescom for some time now and how they were excited about it, which made it seem like they had something big planned not that lame "jump up" ridicule that took place. Taking into account all the recent leaks it was justified that many of us were hoping for something more.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pterois*
> 
> There wasn't any announcement so what now? If retailers already have cards then the press event should probably be in early September with the release following immediately or soon after.
> Maybe they are waiting for AMD's live webcast on Aug 23 to see if they announce anything.


Why are you looking at me? Lol I didn't say at gamescom!







They streamed shield, announcement will be through September. Be patient it'll get here soon


----------



## i7monkey

I sold my 780Ti for $550 to get this. Hopefully it's not a gimped 680 all over again, I guess we'll wait and see.

I just noticed that I'm more excited talking about future releases, waiting for leaked benchmarks, and buying the product more than I am actually using them.

I barely used my 780Ti, and I mean barely.

I'm such a ******


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> I sold my 780Ti for $550 to get this. Hopefully it's not a gimped 680 all over again, I guess we'll wait and see.
> 
> *I just noticed that I'm more excited talking about future releases, waiting for leaked benchmarks, and buying the product more than I am actually using them.*
> 
> I barely used my 780Ti, and I mean barely.
> 
> I'm such a ******


This is exactly the case for me, but with everything! I can't wait, can't wait, can't wait to buy new things but then once I get them its onto the next want, rather than really using what I just got! The reason I'm not excited about the next cards coming out is because my Titans are still overpowering all my games and I'm still able to keep up somewhat in the benching charts. My guess is that once the masses start eclipsing my bench scores that have held up for going on two full years then I will start getting the itch again. But I have promised myself that I will NOT buy into any marketing gimmicks a-la the GTX 680 this time around! I'll wait until we get the proper GK110 replacement thank you very much!


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> This is exactly the case for me, but with everything! I can't wait, can't wait, can't wait to buy new things but then once I get them its onto the next want, rather than really using what I just got! The reason I'm not excited about the next cards coming out is because my Titans are still overpowering all my games and I'm still able to keep up somewhat in the benching charts. My guess is that once the masses start eclipsing my bench scores that have held up for going on two full years then I will start getting the itch again. But I have promised myself that I will NOT buy into any marketing gimmicks a-la the GTX 680 this time around! I'll wait until we get the proper GK110 replacement thank you very much!


Why don't you just buy one or more 880s? Looking at your rig it seems like you are not looking to hit a good price/performance ratio, but are a hardware enthusiast that can afford to triple GPU dip a year.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I may end up doing so when they start destroying all my bench scores, lol! But I would like to at least TRY being a bit more prudent with my hardware spending. Just got a new motorcycle so I've been spending money on that as of late...


----------



## Pikaru

Wouldn't it be a downgrade to go from titans to some 880s? I know we don't really have anything solid on the specs but I wouldn't think an 880 would be better than a titan...


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pikaru*
> 
> Wouldn't it be a downgrade to go from titans to some 880s? I know we don't really have anything solid on the specs but I wouldn't think an 880 would be better than a titan...


lol no.

Well I don't *know* anything solid either, but the 880 stock is going to be better than the Titan stock. I would bet good money on it. It probably even overclocks aswell/better too.
The only thing that might happen is that the Titan with 6GB VRAM and 384 bit might be more suitable for resolutions like 4K surround or something like that.


----------



## i7monkey

Why are there such low expectations for the 880? Why really don't know anything.

I wouldn't be surprised if these leaks are made by Nvidia to butter us up for a $649 880 flagship that's 25% faster than the 780Ti.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Yes, the 880 will be 20-30% faster than a Titan or 780Ti or Nvidia wouldn't release it. The architecture itself will be the difference as it will net a significant performance advantage over Kepler. Its just like how much faster the 680 as than the 580 even though it was a much smaller chip. The thing is, it will still not be the big Maxwell chip, which is what I am waiting for. That card will be far faster than the 780Ti/Titan and should be out next year sometime....


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Yes, the 880 will be 20-30% faster than a Titan or 780Ti or Nvidia wouldn't release it. The architecture itself will be the difference as it will net a significant performance advantage over Kepler. Its just like how much faster the 680 as than the 580 even though it was a much smaller chip. The thing is, it will still not be the big Maxwell chip, which is what I am waiting for. That card will be far faster than the 780Ti/Titan and should be out next year sometime....


Unless it's cheap and only a replacement for stuff like the 770. In case they don't go 20nm yet. But they would not call it 880 in that case probably.


----------



## StrongForce

still no annoucement for these cards, this is not fun !


----------



## NoDoz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> still no annoucement for these cards, this is not fun !


I hear ya on that. Im ready for a 880


----------



## StrongForce

http://videocardz.com/51195/nvidia-maxwell-gm200-pascal-gp100-confirmed-research-paper

Apparently could still be a few months of wait.. and still, it's not even guaranteed


----------



## Yop

I really hope they don't use stacks dvi again. Single slot with water cooling please.


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yop*
> 
> I really hope they don't use stacks dvi again. Single slot with water cooling please.


There's better odds of Nvidia selling the GTX 880 for $199 than there is for them to go single slot and water cooling


----------



## Yop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> There's better odds of Nvidia selling the GTX 880 for $199 than there is for them to go single slot and water cooling


When I said single slot with water cooling, I mean after you take the stock 2 slot cooler off its single slot (with a new pci-e bracket, like the 295x2 or some 280x out there.


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> There's better odds of Nvidia selling the GTX 880 for $199 than there is for them to go single slot and water cooling


That would be nice, wouldn't it. "I'll take four, please."


----------



## pterois

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yop*
> 
> I really hope they don't use stacks dvi again. Single slot with water cooling please.


That would be nice.


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krel*
> 
> That would be nice, wouldn't it. "I'll take four, please."


Even if they perform just a bit better than GTX 750Ti


----------



## FreeElectron

So?
How long till it hit the market?


----------



## kostacurtas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> So?
> How long till it hit the market?


Probably in about a month.


----------



## szeged

Probably two months at the earliest.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> So?
> How long till it hit the market?


If we are super lucky we could see reference designs as early as september 15th ~


----------



## i7monkey

I wonder how they're gonna try and bend us over.

Will they release 50 different versions of the 880 series? 880/880Ti/880Ti 6GB/880Ti SC FTW hYper X edition?

Will they release a 28nm of the 880 and 4 months later transition to a 20nm 880?


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> I wonder how they're gonna try and bend us over.
> 
> Will they release 50 different versions of the 880 series? 880/880Ti/880Ti 6GB/880Ti SC FTW hYper X edition?
> 
> Will they release a 28nm of the 880 and 4 months later transition to a 20nm 880?


Something like this is likely :

28nm 880 350-400mm² Die size -> 28nm 880 Ti 500~mm² die size -> 20nm 980 350-400mm² die size -> 20nm 980 Ti 500~mm² die size

maybe they will name them Titan 2 or something then.

But I am pretty sure we will see a lot of cards again like with Kepler.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> I wonder how they're gonna try and bend us over.
> 
> Will they release 50 different versions of the 880 series? 880/880Ti/880Ti 6GB/880Ti SC FTW hYper X edition?
> 
> Will they release a 28nm of the 880 and 4 months later transition to a 20nm 880?


I am not understanding why some of you are so eager to be "bent over" anyway? You have a 780Ti, what makes the 880 so appealing? Just curious, not trying to be a jerk.


----------



## szeged

I must have the card with the bigger number in the name!

Also if my 780ti can't play borderlands the pre sequel @ 4k with physx on and all settings at max, I'll either sli them or get a 880 for it.


----------



## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> I am not understanding why some of you are so eager to be "bent over" anyway?


I don't like it, I'm just figuring out a waiting strategy.

Quote:


> You have a 780Ti, what makes the 880 so appealing? Just curious, not trying to be a jerk.


Nah, you're not being a jerk.

I admit I'm pretty foolish with my money. Bought a 780 on launch, sold it then bought a 780Ti on launch, and recently sold that for $550. I've lost $600 from the 780 and 780Ti and now I'm waiting for the next release.


----------



## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Something like this is likely :
> 
> 28nm 880 350-400mm² Die size -> 28nm 880 Ti 500~mm² die size -> 20nm 980 350-400mm² die size -> 20nm 980 Ti 500~mm² die size
> 
> maybe they will name them Titan 2 or something then.
> 
> But I am pretty sure we will see a lot of cards again like with Kepler.


I think we'll see something like this:

28nm small die 880 (GM204)
28nm big die Titan 2 (GM200)

20nm big die Titan 2 Ultra (GM210)
20nm big die 980 (GM210)


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> I think we'll see something like this:
> 
> 28nm small die 880 (GM204)
> 28nm big die Titan 2 (GM200)
> 
> 20nm big die Titan 2 Ultra (GM210)
> 20nm big die 980 (GM210)


yeah Maxwell is going to be expensive for those who can't resist the urge


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> I am not understanding why some of you are so eager to be "bent over" anyway?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like it, I'm just figuring out a waiting strategy.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> You have a 780Ti, what makes the 880 so appealing? Just curious, not trying to be a jerk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nah, you're not being a jerk.
> 
> I admit I'm pretty foolish with my money. Bought a 780 on launch, sold it then bought a 780Ti on launch, and recently sold that for $550. I've lost $600 from the 780 and 780Ti and now I'm waiting for the next release.
Click to expand...

lost 600? How much did you sell your 780 for, $200?


----------



## NuclearPeace

Even in the rare case (IMO) that the 880 is slower than the 780 Ti then there isn't really anything that is making NVIDIA label it the 880. If its truly using GM204, then NVIDIA can label it the 860 Ti or something.


----------



## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> lost 600? How much did you sell your 780 for, $200?


I lost $600 owning both the 780 and the 780Ti.

780 $649 + taxes + shipping + brokerage fees = ~$800
780Ti $699 + taxes + shipping + brokerage fees = ~$800

~$1600 to own both.

Sold the 780 for $450 and the 780Ti for $550.

$1600 -$450 - $550 = $600

Cost me $600 to "rent" the 780 for 5 months and the 780Ti for 9 months.

Pretty sad


----------



## WiLd FyeR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> I lost $600 owning both the 780 and the 780Ti.
> 
> 780 $649 + taxes + shipping + brokerage fees = ~$800
> 780Ti $699 + taxes + shipping + brokerage fees = ~$800
> 
> ~$1600 to own both.
> 
> Sold the 780 for $450 and the 780Ti for $550.
> 
> $1600 -$450 - $550 = $600
> 
> Cost me $600 to "rent" the 780 for 5 months and the 780Ti for 9 months.
> 
> Pretty sad


Not bad, now have to wait for the 8XX series. Sold my OG Titan for $800 a few months back and got me a 750Ti. This little beast might last me till the 9XX series.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

My OG Titans still hanging in there and will do so until GM200/210 releases late next year. I understand the argument for letting them go now while they are still bringing decent returns (seems like they are STILL selling for around $600 even now) but by the time I go with GM200 I will have gotten nearly three full years of usage out of them which will, at that point, fully have justified the ugly initial investment in them. I mean, its rare indeed to buy a couple flagship cards and not only use them for 2+ years but also have them remain at or near the top in performance over that entire time! Of course the price tag was still stupid and a blatant money grab by Nvidia, at least they weren't obsolete in 4 months! I know, I know, they released the full GK110 cards (780Ti) less than a year later for a lot less $$$ but the performance of the 780Ti wasn't really that much of an increase over the OG Titan and Titan still had the 6GB of memory. All said, I have been very satisfied with my Titan purchases back at the beginning of March 2013 and intend to remain so until the true replacements are available (880 need not apply)...


----------



## skruppe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Well they could but that's a different scenario. The usual assumption last week is "medium-end card on 28nm naw, 20nm in Q1". Or wait, even 16nm, even more unbelievable, but not all say that.


There's always something better lurking around the corner.


----------



## Menta

and still no news









next guide "the waiting game", i think i will buy a 750ti been holding back to long and cant take intel 4600 any longer


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> and still no news
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> next guide "the waiting game", i think i will buy a 750ti been holding back to long and cant take intel 4600 any longer


Or a 290. It's unlikely to be a bad value-purchase for at least the next 4 months.


----------



## Menta

750ti will be a temporary solution, will hang on it for a reserve unit or maybe just build a low cost mini pc matx or itx later on


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> I don't like it, I'm just figuring out a waiting strategy.
> Nah, you're not being a jerk.
> 
> I admit I'm pretty foolish with my money. Bought a 780 on launch, sold it then bought a 780Ti on launch, and recently sold that for $550. I've lost $600 from the 780 and 780Ti and now I'm waiting for the next release.


yea the question is why you buy and sell both of these cards







. and now you own a custom Ti ? that's buying syndrome you're suffering mate, lol. not that it's bad eh, if you have the money.. which you seem to have








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> 750ti will be a temporary solution, will hang on it for a reserve unit or maybe just build a low cost mini pc matx or itx later on


.

750ti, just buy a card on ebay m8 can get a r9 280x for cheap... lol.


----------



## rdr09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> I lost $600 owning both the 780 and the 780Ti.
> 
> 780 $649 + taxes + shipping + brokerage fees = ~$800
> 780Ti $699 + taxes + shipping + brokerage fees = ~$800
> 
> ~$1600 to own both.
> 
> Sold the 780 for $450 and the 780Ti for $550.
> 
> $1600 -$450 - $550 = $600
> 
> Cost me $600 to "rent" the 780 for 5 months and the 780Ti for 9 months.
> 
> Pretty sad


you enjoyed the cards . . . that's what matters.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> yea the question is why you buy and sell both of these cards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . and now you own a custom Ti ? that's buying syndrome you're suffering mate, lol. not that it's bad eh, if you have the money.. which you seem to have
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 750ti, just buy a card on ebay m8 can get a r9 280x for cheap... lol.


got a 7950 for $100 to replace my HD7770. Free 2-day shipping. lol


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdr09*
> 
> you enjoyed the cards . . . that's what matters.
> got a 7950 for $100 to replace my HD7770. Free 2-day shipping. lol


Yep same, and there was no single bit of dust on mine, i was shocked, the guy must use some next-gen, nanotube-dust filter.

And I also got 6 months seller warranty bill, also recently learnt (by actually asking an ebayer about the warranty) that the constructor warranty you just need the serial number on the card so most likely you can benefit from it.. that's awesome.

if you can I suggest a sapphire r9 280x toxic.. that card is a beast, only 2 years warranty compare to 3 to most(guess they got scared of their high overclocking), but it's hell of a beast.


----------



## fateswarm

Get a 290 that was mining.


----------



## Arturo.Zise

If these new cards have the 256bit bus, how much of an effect will it have with downsampling in games?

Can buy a used 290 or 780 right now for a decent price, but these new cards are supposedly very close so I'm hesitant to pull the trigger just yet.


----------



## fateswarm

^ Nobody knows the impact of the bus, it's just one attribute. Some have the assumption that the cache is huge so the vram bus is less important. I suspect that won't scale well on the high end.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> ^ Nobody knows the impact of the bus, it's just one attribute. Some have the assumption that the cache is huge so the vram bus is less important. I suspect that won't scale well on the high end.


Worth pointing out that nobody knows what the bus _is_ either. 256 has been quoted in a few rumors, but we have no confirmed technical details whatsoever.


----------



## brandon6199

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Worth pointing out that nobody knows what the bus _is_ either. 256 has been quoted in a few rumors, but we have no confirmed technical details whatsoever.


I thought it was confirmed that we're going to see the GTX 880 in 4GB and possibly 8GB variants, meaning that it would have to be a 256-bit wide memory bus? (unless its 512-bit, but that seems highly unlikely)


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brandon6199*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Worth pointing out that nobody knows what the bus _is_ either. 256 has been quoted in a few rumors, but we have no confirmed technical details whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought it was confirmed that we're going to see the GTX 880 in 4GB and possibly 8GB variants, meaning that it would have to be a 256-bit wide memory bus? (unless its 512-bit, but that seems highly unlikely)
Click to expand...

512bit has been done in the past. Hell, AMD is using it on $350 cards now.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> 512bit has been done in the past. Hell, AMD is using it on $350 cards now.


GTX 280: 512
GTX 480: 384
GTX 580: 384
GTX 680: 256
GTX 780: 384

How people think bus width makes or breaks a card is something I truly don't understand.


----------



## fateswarm

^ There is a loose correlation when high resolutions or high volume assets are used. It's probably related to the high needs of GPU<->VRAM data swapping required in those cases and why a higher cache appears to alleviate the issue (because it practically takes the role of VRAM partially, on even higher speeds). It will always have a contribution since after all, the high speeds between VRAM and GPU are the main reason we have graphics cards since the PCI-E bus is extremely slower than their connection, though as far as I know, very wide buses are more suited for bulk transfers like those of textures.


----------



## Silent Scone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> GTX 280: 512
> GTX 480: 384
> GTX 580: 384
> GTX 680: 256
> GTX 780: 384
> 
> How people think bus width makes or breaks a card is something I truly don't understand.


Then you should do some more testing at 4k


----------



## nyk20z3

I sold my 780 Lighting for $600 last week after paying $775 for it when they first dropped.

Now is the waiting game to see what a worthy successor will be for it!


----------



## WiLd FyeR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> I sold my 780 Lighting for $600 last week after paying $775 for it when they first dropped.
> 
> Now is the waiting game to see what a worthy successor will be for it!


Get yourself a 720, it's going to be a long wait. lol..


----------



## nyk20z3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiLd FyeR*
> 
> Get yourself a 720, it's going to be a long wait. lol..


I got nothing but time i will be deployed for the next 4-6 months keeping track on hopeful releases!


----------



## thunder12

They are supposed to be released next month right? :s


----------



## erocker

I don't care what the specs are. If it has great performance with 1440p and higher and price which isn't ridiculous I'm sold.


----------



## Sideways8LV

I'll take two please!


----------



## Menta

This week Nvidia will announce the full 800 series linup.

calling it now


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> This week Nvidia will announce the full 800 series linup.
> 
> calling it now


Oh man I hope so.
I just want to hear something from them!


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> This week Nvidia will announce the full 800 series linup.
> 
> calling it now


Nah second september week mate.


----------



## Alatar

Mid september during a press event afaik.


----------



## Menta




----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Mid september during a press event afaik.


Do you think the 870 will have 1644 Cuda cores? I don't see almost 900 cores being disabled on Gm204. I can see a 1920 core or 2048 but not a 1644 core 870.


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*


Gtx 880 willl be announce september 10th/12th.

I see Haswell-E being announced at PAX prime.


----------



## Menta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deletive*
> 
> Gtx 880 willl be announce september 10th/12th.
> 
> I see Haswell-E being announced at PAX prime.


http://www.nvidia.com/page/events.html

proberly


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deletive*
> 
> Do you think the 870 will have 1644 Cuda cores? I don't see almost 900 cores being disabled on Gm204. I can see a 1920 core or 2048 but not a 1644 core 870.


You can have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc. GPCs in the full chip.

So 640 cores
or 1280 cores
or 1920 cores
or 2560 cores
or 3200 cores
or 3840 cores
etc.

And from there you can disable one SMM at a time. I wouldn't put much faith in the recent 1644 core rumors, the TMU count wasn't possible. Also if GF104, GF114 and GK104 are anything to go by we will see 4 GPCs and 4 64bit memory controllers.

1664 (not 1644 btw) core part would have 7 SMMs disabled, I could maybe see that in a 860 part or something if NV didn't have anything other than GM204 available but I very much doubt that those are 870 specs.

I'd be really surprised if the full GM204 core only has 1920 cores and 3 GPCs. It would be different from the approach NV has usually taken with the high end mid range die. And the die we've seen is actually relatively big so I would be wondering where all that available space went.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> You can have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc. GPCs in the full chip.
> 
> So 640 cores
> or 1280 cores
> or 1920 cores
> or 2560 cores
> or 3200 cores
> or 3840 cores
> etc.
> 
> And from there you can disable one SMM at a time. I wouldn't put much faith in the recent 1644 core rumors, the TMU count wasn't possible. Also if GF104, GF114 and GK104 are anything to go by we will see 4 GPCs and 4 64bit memory controllers.
> 
> 1664 (not 1644 btw) core part would have 7 SMMs disabled, I could maybe see that in a 860 part or something if NV didn't have anything other than GM204 available but I very much doubt that those are 870 specs.
> 
> I'd be really surprised if the full GM204 core only has 1920 cores and 3 GPCs. It would be different from the approach NV has usually taken with the high end mid range die. And the die we've seen is actually relatively big so I would be wondering where all that available space went.


Really excited!


----------



## Olivon

I agree with Alatar, 2560SP looks like the sweet spot.
GM107 doubles the GK107's performace while having a die around 25% bigger.
If we apply the same math on GK104 and GM204, it sounds good.
66% moar cores (384 vs 640) gives around 2560SP compared to 1536 GK104 ones.
25% die size gives around 375mm² but chips leaked seems a little bigger.
Performance could be around 15% better than 780Ti with a such a configuration IMHO.


----------



## Deletive




----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Olivon*
> 
> I agree with Alatar, 2560SP looks like the sweet spot.
> GM107 doubles the GK107's performace while having a die around 25% bigger.
> If we apply the same math on GK104 and GM204, it sounds good.
> 66% moar cores (384 vs 640) gives around 2560SP compared to 1536 GK104 ones.
> 25% die size gives around 375mm² but chips leaked seems a little bigger.
> Performance could be around 15% better than 780Ti with a such a configuration IMHO.


Hmm so could a 870 have 2560 CUDA cores?
Oh forget it, I'm tired of speculation, I just want to see the cards now!


----------



## TMatzelle60

Really sick of waiting (







). My EVGA themed build is waiting!! on the 800 series

Caselabs S3
i5 4690K
EVGA Z97 Stinger
Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1600 2x4GB
???? EVGA GTX 800 Series ????
EVGA Supernova 750 G2
Prolimatech Megahelm Black Edition.

I really can't wait till my son gets this rig going! Power to older women gamers!


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TMatzelle60*
> 
> Really sick of waiting. My *EVGA themed build* is waiting!! on the 800 series
> 
> Caselabs S3
> i5 4690K
> EVGA Z97 Stinger
> Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1600 2x4GB
> ???? EVGA GTX 800 Series ????
> EVGA Supernova 750 G2
> Prolimatech Megahelm Black Edition.
> 
> I really can't wait till my son gets this rig going! Power to older women gamers!


I'm sorry.


----------



## TMatzelle60

Why are you sorry LOL


----------



## szeged

The cool new thing these days is to hate on evga for no particular reason.

Hope your son gets the build going soon for you


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> The cool new thing these days is to hate on evga for no particular reason.
> 
> Hope your son gets the build going soon for you


They are good. I was the only one to defend their new classifieds on this forum (as possibly "not as bad as the X79").

But forcing yourself to an "EVGA only build" and then getting annoyed one of the parts isn't EVGA is silly.


----------



## TMatzelle60

Honestly, Probably one of the best customer services and probably considered up there with corsair. There motherboards i have owned and never had a problem i have owned there boards all the way back to P67. There new G2 psu is suppose to be top notch and there graphic cards have yet to give my a problem.

my server that we use is a SR-X and i must say all there products have been very well build and no problems "Knock on wood" since electrical components can break sometimes

No I'm not annoyed i just want the 880 lol. I have corsair ram and all i just been a huge fan of evga over the years


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> They are good. I was the only one to defend their new classifieds on this forum (as possibly "not as bad as the X79").
> 
> But forcing yourself to an "EVGA only build" and then getting annoyed one of the parts isn't EVGA is silly.


I defended their z87 and z97 boards as well, I have personally used them , paid with my own money, no sponsorship or review board, they really are some of the best, but they are too expensive imo, which is a problem with a lot of evga products recently.

Justq saw the price on the Gigabyte soc x99 board....for that price I'd rather just get a xpower or rampage 5, Wut r u doin Gigabyte.

Oh wait this is a gpu thread









Waiting for non reference cards this time around instead of buying reference then spending more on non ref and having to lose money reselling.


----------



## TMatzelle60

Szeged,

Its like i bought my parts right when the new gnu are coming out but the wait is solo long. Even if it would come out in 2 weeks it would feel like years because of the anticipation.

When do you think we will see first cards hit the market you think est.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> Justq saw the price on the Gigabyte soc x99 board....for that price I'd rather just get a xpower or rampage 5, Wut r u doin Gigabyte.


I think it's because "E users are big spenders anyway, give it features, moar features".
[/offtopic]


----------



## szeged

I know how that wait feels lol, the wait for the kingpin card was about a month but it felt like an eternity lol.

My guess on when we will actually be able to purchase cards is either the first or second week of October, that's been my guess since January and it hasn't changed yet.


----------



## TMatzelle60

Well my son will have to wait and enjoy his PS4 and NHL 15 for the time being. No point in getting a 780 when 880 is around the corner.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> I know how that wait feels lol, the wait for the kingpin card was about a month but it felt like an eternity lol.
> 
> My guess on when we will actually be able to purchase cards is either the *first or second week of October*, that's been my guess since January and it hasn't changed yet.


Don't say that.


----------



## TMatzelle60

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> Don't say that.


Yea LOL you might get







burnt if your wrong


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TMatzelle60*
> 
> Yea LOL you might get
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> burnt if your wrong


Not even that, hearing October makes me sad, that's a long wait.


----------



## szeged

If I'm wrong, I can only hope it comes soon instead of later lol.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> If I'm wrong, I can only hope it comes soon instead of later lol.


How long till the 880 Ti classified hits the market?


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> How long till the 880 Ti classified hits the market?


well we don't know if there will be a 880 Ti. We also don't know if the card is going to be named 880 Ti or Titan 2. If it will be called Titan 2, chances are that this card won't allow custom designs like Classified etc. Similar to Titan, Titan Black, 690, Titan Z ~

We can only guess and If I were to guess, in the odd chance that there will be 880 Ti that allows custom designs, I'd say March 2015.

The normal 880 Classified/Lightning/HoF on the other hand .. I can see that happening pretty soon. Like october. Well maybe not for the Lightning, MSI always need long.


----------



## Chargeit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> I sold my 780 Lighting for $600 last week after paying $775 for it when they first dropped.
> 
> Now is the waiting game to see what a worthy successor will be for it!


Selling cards now is the smart way to go.

I considered pushing off my 780 now, and using my 750 ti Physx card as a main card for a few months myself... Of course, that would mean I wouldn't have my 780 to put in my back up rig... Though I'm not sure I even want my 780 in my back up rig.

Kind of torn there. I want a 880. I'm not sure if I'm going to buy the 880 and use my 780 for one of my other systems, or, sell my 780. I'll be honest, I don't really think my other rigs need a 780. Those FX CPU aren't the best match for such a card. Also, my ol'lady doesn't need a 780 for Guildwars 2, and I don't need a 780 in a system I use for email...

Maybe I should sell now and deal with a 750 ti for a month or two. First world problems right.


----------



## StrongForce

doesn't EVGA also offers epic warranty if you register the product (and if you live in the USA) or something ? that certainly sounds good to me !
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chargeit*
> 
> Selling cards now is the smart way to go.
> 
> I considered pushing off my 780 now, and using my 750 ti Physx card as a main card for a few months myself... Of course, that would mean I wouldn't have my 780 to put in my back up rig... Though I'm not sure I even want my 780 in my back up rig.
> 
> Kind of torn there. I want a 880. I'm not sure if I'm going to buy the 880 and use my 780 for one of my other systems, or, sell my 780. I'll be honest, I don't really think my other rigs need a 780. Those FX CPU aren't the best match for such a card. Also, my ol'lady doesn't need a 780 for Guildwars 2, and I don't need a 780 in a system I use for email...
> 
> Maybe I should sell now and deal with a 750 ti for a month or two. First world problems right.


750Ti for a temporary solution ? might aswell get a 7950 on ebay







cost me roughly 100$


----------



## Chargeit

I already have a 750 ti as a Physx card.









I also have a R9 270x in my AMD/AMD rig that I could pull and use as a temp card if the 750 ti doesn't cut it. I would have to at least give the 750 ti a go, since I haven't tested it out other then as Physx.

Just thinking of options. I can just buy the thing and keep the 780, but, I really don't want to put it in my other systems. It's too much card for my ol'lady, and that R9-270x matches up great with the 8320 in my back up rig. I don't want to mess that balance up. I could use the 780 as a Physx Card with the 880 I get, but where does that leave my 750 ti. But serious, I don't want a 780 running as a Physx card under my 880.


----------



## nyk20z3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chargeit*
> 
> Selling cards now is the smart way to go.
> 
> I considered pushing off my 780 now, and using my 750 ti Physx card as a main card for a few months myself... Of course, that would mean I wouldn't have my 780 to put in my back up rig... Though I'm not sure I even want my 780 in my back up rig.
> 
> Kind of torn there. I want a 880. I'm not sure if I'm going to buy the 880 and use my 780 for one of my other systems, or, sell my 780. I'll be honest, I don't really think my other rigs need a 780. Those FX CPU aren't the best match for such a card. Also, my ol'lady doesn't need a 780 for Guildwars 2, and I don't need a 780 in a system I use for email...
> 
> Maybe I should sell now and deal with a 750 ti for a month or two. First world problems right.


Actually using my buddies 750 Ti SC right now as a back up,I never use half of the Lightings potential and it didn't match my Asus Gene VI so it had to go.I might do dual 770 or just a single 880,I will most def wait to see what custom cards asus comes out with.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> doesn't EVGA also offers epic warranty if you register the product (and if you live in the USA) or something ? that certainly sounds good to me !


You can use a guest rma with EVGA, no registration required. Here is a post I made earlier today:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> Can look for a used 780 ti or 780 from EVGA and if you have any issues with the card, you can guest RMA with them. I bought a used EVGA Titan locally without a receipt and after a couple months, card went caput.
> 
> Guest RMa'd the card with EVGA and less than two weeks after first contacting them about the dead card, I received a another card. All done through serial number.


I'm also in Canada.


----------



## Chargeit

How's the 750 ti holding up as a back up card?

Dual 770's should easily beat out a single 880. I'd get the 4gb models for peace of mind and future resistance.


----------



## fateswarm

770 is a silly decision when there's 290.


----------



## zealord

290 is a silly decision when you want to Gsync


----------



## nyk20z3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chargeit*
> 
> How's the 750 ti holding up as a back up card?
> 
> Dual 770's should easily beat out a single 880. I'd get the 4gb models for peace of mind and future resistance.


Perfectly fine at 1080 with high quality settings in most games,i am very impressed with the 750 Ti.

At 1440 or higher it would be a no go but any one looking for a cheap card for 1080 this is the def the way to go.

My next monitor is a Swift or LG 34UM95 so a 880 4GB would be ideal!


----------



## szeged

770 and 290 are silly decisions when you can just go over your budget by a lot more and get quad 290x/780ti


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> 290 is a silly decision when you want to Gsync


g-sync is a silly when [email protected]


----------



## InfoWarrior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chargeit*
> 
> How's the 750 ti holding up as a back up card?
> 
> Dual 770's should easily beat out a single 880....


That would be really disappointing considering a 780Ti with a good overclock can nearly match the 770Sli...


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> g-sync is a silly when [email protected]


Anything is better than vaporware.


----------



## Alatar

Announced extremely early with very little details to hurt the sales of the competing product.

Seems like a textbook example.


----------



## Menta

if i had a 780 i would not be to worried about the 800 series,would buy a 780 if i could get one at half price and skip the 800 series for this year


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Announced extremely early with very little details to hurt the sales of the competing product.
> 
> Seems like a textbook example.


A textbook example of not having proof but speculation yes.


----------



## Mand12

Vaporware, to me, implies that something will never end up releasing. I don't think that's the case here, so I avoid the term.

But, they don't have anything yet, and haven't for months, but that hasn't stopped them from engaging in a deceptive smear campaign.


----------



## svenge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Vaporware, to me, implies that something will never end up releasing. I don't think that's the case here, so I avoid the term.


Another valid definition of vaporware is to publicly promise features to counter a competitor's _already-existing_ product, but without disclosing any details of how or when such a feat will be accomplished. By that definition, Freesync certainly qualifies as such.


----------



## Sideways8LV

Despite using PC's for years, this is the first time I have anticipated a graphics card release and had a couple of questions:

1) Do all the major manufacturers (EVGA, MSI, ASUS etc) offer the reference card upon release date or is it just retailers for Nvidia?

2) How long typically before manufacturers release their own variants after the release date of the reference card?

3) Assuming EVGA was to release the reference card, would it make sense from a new build perspective to buy a reference card and then step up when they release one with their own cooler and clocks, providing it is within 3 months of purchase? As I would like to dump my graphics budget into the best card/s I can buy currently.

Thanks for your help.


----------



## Mand12

1) Nearly all of the big players will offer a reference card. Nvidia does not sell any cards itself, it sells the chips that the other companies turn into a complete system.

2) Sometimes non-reference designs take a while, sometimes they're very quick. I'm pretty sure there have been some non-reference at launch for some cards.

3) "EVGA will only release reference versions of its products, NVIDIA reference spec and clock, to the Step-Up program. Step-Up is limited to pre-approved graphics cards only and can only be used for exchange to a different and higher performing GPU." Source. So, no. You can't step-up between two cards with the same GPU, and you can't step-up into a new non-reference. You can only get a reference card in Step-Up.

Do note that as of late Nvidia's reference coolers have been pretty good.


----------



## Sideways8LV

Appreciate that. Here's hoping for a good non-reference card at launch or soon after. Rep'd.

Edit: Although planning on 2 way SLI so blower coolers might work out well, heat wise.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Announced extremely early with very little details to hurt the sales of the *competing product*.
> 
> Seems like a textbook example.


And by competing product you mean the 780 Ti ?
Because iirc the R9 290X wasn't as good as the 780 ti


----------



## StrongForce

Let's hope the september annoucement rumor is true, I'm getting tired of false rumors/leaks such as gamescom for 880 or even valve annoucing something there uh.

meanwhile I still need to find a job to get the extra 200-300 bucks I need for a 880 .. So I'm not gonna beg them to release tomorow, lol.


----------



## Mand12

Well there's certainly _something_ happening in September. Lots of press have received invites to a dedicated press event. Those are really only for one thing, product announcements.

It could not be 800 series, sure. They could always surprise us with something completely new, like they did with the G-Sync announcement.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> And by competing product you mean the 780 Ti ?
> Because iirc the R9 290X wasn't as good as the 780 ti


He means G-Sync and FreeSync. G-Sync is here, real, and tested. FreeSync is an alleged competitor, but it's been smoke and mirrors since the very start. Not one shred of hard evidence that they're actually doing what they claim, or that it will actually end up in a product even.


----------



## nyk20z3

I am really trying to be patient as well,after selling my 780 Lighting i am using a friends 750 Ti which he wont need back any time soon so that leaves me plenty of time to just keep saving.


----------



## Chargeit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> Perfectly fine at 1080 with high quality settings in most games,i am very impressed with the 750 Ti.


I find that I'm more impressed with low/mid ranged GPU then I am with higher end stuff.

It's hard not to think, hell, I'm playing a game that's looks good and runs well on a GPU that's fractions of the price of higher end hardware.

Think about this also, that 750 ti is low end, though priced closer to the mid. If that 750 ti does what it does, think about the 760's or 270x/280.

The 270x in my back up rig is a beast for the price paid ($180 w/2 free games). I really think I could use it as a main GPU and not be disappointed.

I know part of me wants to drop down GPU level simply because the mid ranged stuff performs great, runs cool, and you don't feel like you wasted money moving up the next GPU gen. I won't of course, I'm stuck now with 880 or better without waiting years for a upgrade... That won't happen.









Still, those mid-ranged GPU are great bang for the buck now a days.


----------



## jdstock76

^So true. I've been obsessed with Ultra setting gameplay but in reality I don't notice the difference. Been playing BF4 on Medium the last week and my performance seems marginally better while visually I notice no difference. I purchased a 660ti and thought it was great but then was caught up in the hype and purchased a second. Now I have two 770's and thou they are fantastic, certainly not needed.


----------



## Chargeit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdstock76*
> 
> ^So true. I've been obsessed with Ultra setting gameplay but in reality I don't notice the difference.


Yea. I agree basically.

I notice a difference when I'm switching settings around. However, I if I just install a game on my back up rig and play, I couldn't' pick the difference out.

Take Sleeping dogs for instance. I played it maxed on my main system. I did lower one setting, I don't remember which that was. It looked good and played well. I later installed it on my back up rig, but didn't adjust settings. It looked good and played well. Point being, the difference aren't so huge that it takes a game that looks good (enough), and makes it look like crap.

Sleeping dogs might not be the best example, but it's what I can think of atm.



That's Sleeping Dogs running at default settings on my AMD rig. I of course make sure to adjust to 1080p.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> It could not be 800 series, sure.


wat


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> wat


could (not be)

(could not) be

I see how the emphasis could have been lost in text.


----------



## fateswarm

a ok yeah


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gibbo*
> The 780 won't be available for much longer so anyone wanting a great deal or is considering an SLI upgrade, then do not wait too long.


http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18620315


----------



## Luck100

Also, Amazon is nearly out of stock on EVGA 780ti superclocked with the reference cooler, and the price has spiked way up. Seems pretty clear the 780 and 780ti will be EOL'd soon, to be replaced by Maxwell 870/880. I expect the 870/880 to have better price/performance ratio than the 780/780ti, making them competitive again with R290/R290x (on a price/performance basis).

It's not so clear what's going to happen to the 770. Stock levels still seem good, so I suspect it may solider on for a few more months before the 860 shows up.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18620315


Yup, saw that the other day







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luck100*
> 
> Also, Amazon is nearly out of stock on EVGA 780ti superclocked with the reference cooler, and the price has spiked way up. Seems pretty clear the 780 and 780ti will be EOL'd soon, to be replaced by Maxwell 870/880. I expect the 870/880 to have better price/performance ratio than the 780/780ti, making them competitive again with R290/R290x (on a price/performance basis).
> 
> It's not so clear what's going to happen to the 770. Stock levels still seem good, so I suspect it may solider on for a few more months before the 860 shows up.


That seems to be the most likely case.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18620315


Yup, that's a sign.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luck100*
> 
> Also, Amazon is nearly out of stock on EVGA 780ti superclocked with the reference cooler, and the price has spiked way up. Seems pretty clear the 780 and 780ti will be EOL'd soon, to be replaced by Maxwell 870/880. I expect the 870/880 to have better price/performance ratio than the 780/780ti, making them competitive again with R290/R290x (on a price/performance basis).
> 
> It's not so clear what's going to happen to the 770. Stock levels still seem good, so I suspect it may solider on for a few more months before the 860 shows up.


I hope the launch price of the GTX 870 is similar to both the GTX 670 and GTX 770 or less, between £300-329 would be nice.
Hopefully the GTX 870 offers more performance than the GTX 780 which has received a price cut from Overclockers.co.uk.
I hope they come with 4GB GDDR5 standard.

Can't wait!


----------



## Menta

nice prices on the 780..... dying to know just how much better the 880 will be


----------



## thunder12

Scan are selling 780s off cheaper. As well as this, they usually keep item listings if they run out of stock and allow you to preorder but they are now removing out of stock 780s altogether. Also, they are throwing in borderlands the presequel which suggests that they really want to shift this stock.

Wouldn't be surprised if 800 series simply get released on the 1st.


----------



## Menta

1 st of September! No way


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thunder12*
> 
> 
> 
> Scan are selling 780s off cheaper. As well as this, they usually keep item listings if they run out of stock and allow you to preorder but they are now removing out of stock 780s altogether. Also, they are throwing in borderlands the presequel which suggests that they really want to shift this stock.
> 
> Wouldn't be surprised if 800 series simply get released on the 1st.


Wow, it really must be happening.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> 1 st of September! No way


It would be nice but I don't know of any conferences or events that Nvidia may be at.


----------



## Menta

i would love for that to happen..been waiting for so long now....almost bought a 780 today at a near by store...but turned around and went home









checked my mail and saw the price drop...also a 780 in my country costs 480 euros min. would rather order one from the U.K and save 60 euros


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thunder12*
> 
> Wouldn't be surprised if 800 series simply get released on the 1st.


Surely something/anything would have leaked by now were that the case


----------



## Alatar

Nothing is happening on the 1st...

You'll know when the cards are about to release.


----------



## Stay Puft

Still waiting for some 399.99 780's


----------



## Menta

I did not follow the 700 series release so close, did they simply put the cards on the shelves? cant recall


----------



## brandonb21

it will be late September early October before the 880 is out.


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brandonb21*
> 
> it will be late September early October before the 880 is out.


Announced on the 12th of september and launched on the 19th.


----------



## i7monkey

They better have GM200 somewhere in there


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> They better have GM200 somewhere in there


Gm200 is just too big to be on 28nm


----------



## Alatar

A few months too early for GM200.

Assuming it's going to be brought out asap that is. It most likely wont be.


----------



## Astral Fly

I have this bad feeling the 880 will have 1920 cores and be a tad slower than 780ti, just because Nvidia don't want to cannibalise their own $700 market. A full GM204 could be 2560 cores and be launched as 880ti, but even if that's the case it doesn't seem to be happening in the near future.

My requirement for a new GPU is that it must be able to push the Oculus Rift consumer version. That's 1440p @ 90hz, so I'm not pilling the trigger until I can get something that's about 15% above 780ti.


----------



## szeged

come on 780ti prices, drop to the floor. 780ti quad sli for gaming, single 880 for benching, yes please.


----------



## thunder12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> I did not follow the 700 series release so close, did they simply put the cards on the shelves? cant recall


For some reason I thought 780, 770 and 760 were released on the 1st of august last year, but thinking about it, I'm sure it was around the 5th and 6th.


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Astral Fly*
> 
> I have this bad feeling the 880 will have 1920 cores and be a tad slower than 780ti, just because Nvidia don't want to cannibalise their own $700 market. A full GM204 could be 2560 cores and be launched as 880ti, but even if that's the case it doesn't seem to be happening in the near future.
> 
> My requirement for a new GPU is that it must be able to push the Oculus Rift consumer version. That's 1440p @ 90hz, so I'm not pilling the trigger until I can get something that's about 15% above 780ti.


If a new X80 card comes out and is slower than the 780ti short of it being priced like the 770, I hope it fails miserably. I hope if they come out with a card slower they go ahead and call it a X70.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CasualCat*
> 
> If a new X80 card comes out and is slower than the 780ti short of it being priced like the 770, I hope it fails miserably. I hope if they come out with a card slower they go ahead and call it a X70.


I'm hoping the 870 will perform in between the 780 and 780 Ti.

I really hope they use the beautiful reference coolers they had on the Titan, 780s and the 770 again, but with improved cooling performance, they look fantastic!


----------



## flopticalcube

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> I'm hoping the 870 will perform in between the 780 and 780 Ti.
> 
> I really hope they use the beautiful reference coolers they had on the Titan, 780s and the 770 again, but with improved cooling performance, they look fantastic!


Me as well. I am also hoping for a 150W TDP and a "shorty" card format.


----------



## curly haired boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flopticalcube*
> 
> Me as well. I am also hoping for a 150W TDP and a "shorty" card format.


eh, the 660 was short and ended up 'long'


----------



## flopticalcube

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curly haired boy*
> 
> eh, the 660 was short and ended up 'long'


The 760 is available in short variants as was the 670. I'm hoping the 870 will be too even if it means just a short PCB since I can use it without the stock cooler.


----------



## Chargeit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flopticalcube*
> 
> Me as well. I am also hoping for a 150W TDP and a "shorty" card format.


I like my GPU big and fat, a proper phallic symbol.







Damn, you can barely hold those suckers in one hand! Yea, they're pretty big, but I manage.

Now that's keeping it real.


----------



## flopticalcube

At my age you learn that its not how big it is but how many places you can stick it in that counts.









Since I have to fit it into an SG05, I prefer a short, sub-200W card and the fewer power connectors the better as well since it will be powered by a noisy 450W SFX PSU. The cooler, unless its inaudible, is moot to me as I will strap on some water to it.


----------



## FreeElectron

So...
X99 is up
When will this be up?


----------



## Wezzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> So...
> X99 is up
> When will this be up?


It'll be out soon just be patience.


----------



## TMatzelle60

Who here is staying with there 7xx Series graphic card and going to wait till the next gpu series comes out after this ?


----------



## Chargeit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TMatzelle60*
> 
> Who here is staying with there 7xx Series graphic card and going to wait till the next gpu series comes out after this ?


I know I'm tempted to toss a 2nd 780 into my system instead of getting a 880. I'm just not sure I feel like dealing with possible SLI issues. I'm 80% leaning towards a 880, and 20% towards adding a 2nd 780.


----------



## wb428

I'm so on the fence here. New build ready to go. Kingpins or wait it out for 880s? I'm guessing 3 weeks until 880 launch. arghhhhh


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wb428*
> 
> I'm so on the fence here. New build ready to go. Kingpins or wait it out for 880s? I'm guessing 3 weeks until 880 launch. arghhhhh


I'm definitely waiting. i've been waiting to do this build for a year, what's another three weeks?


----------



## szeged

I'm waiting for non reference pcb cards. I'll never buy a reference model nvidia card again.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> I'm waiting for non reference pcb cards. I'll *never* buy a reference model nvidia card again.


Never say Never, They might pull a Titan stun on next gen, with nothing but reference models. I know you won't resist the urge


----------



## szeged

If they only release reference models then ill wait for the new amd cards and get a lightning


----------



## Chargeit

Yea, I'm waiting for non-reference. That's the crappy part of it. I just hope they put them out quickly. Still, will be good to see how the reference models do.


----------



## szeged

Even the Asus dcu2 model will be fine, I can easily solder and short out the card to unlock the volts lol.


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> I'm waiting for non reference pcb cards. I'll never buy a reference model nvidia card again.


I haven't owned a reference board in years so I'm unfamiliar, but what is wrong with reference Nvidias?


----------



## TMatzelle60

Cooling might not be as good.

I know the nvidia design was alitle warmer.

But the AMD R9 290x reference design had a huge problem i believe


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TMatzelle60*
> 
> Cooling might not be as good.
> 
> I know the nvidia design was alitle warmer.
> 
> But the AMD R9 290x reference design had a huge problem i believe


Not as relevant if you're watercooling?


----------



## TMatzelle60

He was asking about reference cooling. We all know water-cooling will not cause the card to be hot and water cooling is not considered reference cooling


----------



## Menta

actually the 700 series has a solid reference design, if the 900 series is as good no worries, but who knows maybe non reference will be instant as they sure are timing their time to release


----------



## krel

Sorry, I should have asked my question more clearly. If you're going to be watercooling, is there any reason to stay away from a reference design?


----------



## Menta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krel*
> 
> Sorry, I should have asked my question more clearly. If you're going to be watercooling, is there any reason to stay away from a reference design?


none what so ever


----------



## Roelv

I thought water blocks only work on reference cards except for the special classified blocks?


----------



## Menta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krel*
> 
> Sorry, I should have asked my question more clearly. If you're going to be watercooling, is there any reason to stay away from a reference design?


well you might want to check if there is a block for the card and if the pcb has changes....but no reason to stay away unless the pcb is custom, might be more difficult to get a water block

ex.

"EK also introduces ASUS® GTX780TI-DC2 DirectCU II water block"

EK-FC780 GTX Ti DCII - Nickel FC Terminal / HD Tube
EK-FC780 GTX Ti DCII - Acetal+Nickel FC Terminal / HD Tube
EK-FC780 GTX Ti DCII - Nickel (Original CSQ) FC Bridge CS
EK-FC780 GTX Ti DCII - Backplate - Black -


----------



## fateswarm

Graphics boards are simple contraptions. They are a couple of VRMs and chips. The main benefit I notice on better cards is that the vrm has more true phases and better mosfets.

Some people think temperatures are "constant" across boards. Nothing could be further from the truth. Add it better mosfets or/and more phases and it's cooler.

e.g. make a long board and add it 12 or more IR3550s and it will likely run naked without even needing a passive heatsink on them.


----------



## FreeElectron

I have been waiting for 8 months now!


----------



## Menta

"Msi

Exciting times! Next-gen GPUs are upon us and soon you can see all the details of our new Twin Frozr V Thermal Design! Here's a first sneak peak at the design..."



another hint for the 800\900 series ?


----------



## 8472

Looks like they are still going to require sli bridges and still have the same output layout.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> "Msi
> 
> Exciting times! Next-gen GPUs are upon us and soon you can see all the details of our new Twin Frozr V Thermal Design! Here's a first sneak peak at the design..."
> 
> 
> 
> another hint for the 800\900 series ?


looks abit wider than usual.


----------



## BulletSponge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> I'm waiting for non reference pcb cards. I'll never buy a reference model nvidia card again.


^This, so much this.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CasualCat*
> 
> I haven't owned a reference board in years so I'm unfamiliar, but what is wrong with reference Nvidias?


They are voltage locked.


----------



## BackwoodsNC

price drops incoming from AMD.... YES!!!!!!!!!! Gonna get some 290x's lightnings, if they fall far enough. $$$$


----------



## DoktorCreepy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> "Msi
> 
> Exciting times! Next-gen GPUs are upon us and soon you can see all the details of our new Twin Frozr V Thermal Design! Here's a first sneak peak at the design..."
> 
> another hint for the 800\900 series ?


Here is the link, https://www.facebook.com/msiuk

The PCB seems interesting, other manufacturer's will probably start showing their new non reference designs now fairly soon.


----------



## szeged

now things are starting to get interesting.

the first mentions of next gen cards by manufacturers usually indicate big things for the coming month.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoktorCreepy*
> 
> Here is the link, https://www.facebook.com/msiuk
> 
> The PCB seems interesting, other manufacturer's will probably start showing their new non reference designs now fairly soon.


The MSI pic is just a render, it's most likely just a generic PCB (display connectors, power connectors etc.) to avoid NDA violations etc.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> The MSI pic is just a render, it's most likely just a generic PCB (display connectors, power connectors etc.) to avoid NDA violations etc.


this

also keep in mind that early pictures of the r9 290x had crossfire fingers.


----------



## StrongForce

I'm holding my breath, lol.


----------



## TMatzelle60

Can someone post the picture on here i don't like touching Facebook at all thanks lol


----------



## szeged

its a page or two back.


----------



## krel

I really hope they go to multiple displayport connectors. 2x displayport, 1x HDMI, 1x DVI. Heck, just go to 4x displayport, you can buy adapters for anything else.


----------



## TMatzelle60

Yea, Just saw it internet hit a bump so image didn't show. IDK i don't like the design but i can't really tell. Must be getting really close to release. Cant wait to see what evga will have planned and what kind of design there acx cooler will have. Hoping it will be something slick or something different the the older ones. If there the same as the older ones then whatever it would not bother me.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> "Msi
> 
> Exciting times! Next-gen GPUs are upon us and soon you can see all the details of our new Twin Frozr V Thermal Design! Here's a first sneak peak at the design..."
> 
> another hint for the 800\900 series ?


I hope not, because I'm hoping for multiple DP outs.


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> I defended their z87 and z97 boards as well, I have personally used them , paid with my own money, no sponsorship or review board, they really are some of the best, but they are too expensive imo, which is a problem with a lot of evga products recently.
> 
> *Justq saw the price on the Gigabyte soc x99 board....for that price I'd rather just get a xpower or rampage 5, Wut r u doin Gigabyte.*
> 
> Oh wait this is a gpu thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Waiting for non reference cards this time around instead of buying reference then spending more on non ref and having to lose money reselling.


Where exactly can one get a RVE or XPower for 349.99?

Edit: Just saw this post was a week old. OCN took me to those posts as if they were new when I clicked the thread. My bad.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> "Msi
> 
> Exciting times! Next-gen GPUs are upon us and soon you can see all the details of our new Twin Frozr V Thermal Design! Here's a first sneak peak at the design..."
> 
> 
> 
> another hint for the 800\900 series ?


Great find









if noise and thermals are right then this might be my next 880


----------



## fleetfeather

down for a 870/970 if the price it right. I wonder if we'll see a return to the short PCB as per GTX 670?


----------



## th3illusiveman

just how much faster can Maxwell be while still being 28nm? We've all seen how delays in node changes can affect performance. AMD planned both Cayman and Hawaii on smaller manufacturing processes then what they ended up launching on and both suffered for it, Cayman was barely faster than Cypress and Hawaii is a power Hog. Nvidia planned for Maxwell to launch on a smaller process as well...


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> just how much faster can Maxwell be while still being 28nm?


We've no idea what it is. It could be 28nm or it could be 20nm. With this delay to see leaks the 20nm possibility is closer than it was before since TSMC is ripe for printing chips for non-Apple partners and AMD is due to release 20nm chips in probably Q1 or Q2.

Or it could be lower end 28nm replacements of the 770 or barely the 780 and later 20.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> just how much faster can Maxwell be while still being 28nm? We've all seen how delays in node changes can affect performance. AMD planned both Cayman and Hawaii on smaller manufacturing processes then what they ended up launching on and both suffered for it, Cayman was barely faster than Cypress and Hawaii is a power Hog. Nvidia planned for Maxwell to launch on a smaller process as well...


well Maxwell is a lot faster than Kepler core for core/clock for clock/die size for die size, but the more important question is how much faster are the cards we are actually going to get?
Also it is safe to assume that the GM204 GTX 880 is going to have a die size bigger than the GK104 GTX 680 but smaller than the GTX 780 Ti.

I'd be disappointed if the GTX 880 is not atleast 15% faster than the 780 Ti (both at stock clock) and has good overclockability. I am ready and willing to spend 500€ on a GTX 880, but only if it is a performance jump ( well atleast on 1080p/120hz where I am at) . I don't care for 4k or surround so I don't worry about the VRAM / memory interface.
15-20% better on 1080p than a 780 Ti (both reference designs, both stock clocks) and good overclockability would make me buy one.

But I am pretty sure the GTX 880 is going to be trumped by an Nvidia behemoth in a few months. So I'd say the GTX 880 might not be the best buy for people who currently have a good card and can wait. If I had a 780 Ti Kingpin I'd not upgrade to an 880, but wait for something bigger.
Although I don't expect whatever is coming after the GTX 880 to be have a better price/performance ratio. If either a GTX 880 Ti or Titan 2 is coming I am sure it'll be 650-1000€/$.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> But I am pretty sure the GTX 880 is going to be trumped by an Nvidia behemoth in a few months. So I'd say the GTX 880 might not be the best buy for people who currently have a good card and can wait. If I had a 780 Ti Kingpin I'd not upgrade to an 880, but wait for something bigger.
> Although I don't expect whatever is coming after the GTX 880 to be have a better price/performance ratio. If either a GTX 880 Ti or Titan 2 is coming I am sure it'll be 650-1000€/$.


You want to talk about cost-effective and waiting? When you have at least a current end-gen card? Then you to wait for at least 16nm or maybe the end of 20nm if it drags a lot (and it probably will).


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> You want to talk about cost-effective and waiting? When you have at least a current end-gen card? Then you to wait for at least 16nm or maybe the end of 20nm if it drags a lot (and it probably will).


my structure may look like I am referring to people who own a 780 Ti, but I meant people who are in more need of an upgrade, like me, but are not sure whether to upgrade to the 880 or whatever comes after.

I should have put in a gap between those 2 sentences


----------



## Menta

i think it will 20nm now, its been a long wait


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> i think it will 20nm now, its been a long wait


don't wanna burst your bubble mate, but 20nm + Maxwell architecture is too big a jump. There is no challenge/pressure from AMD.
A 20nm GTX 880 with 350-400mm² die size would be like 50+% better than a GTX Titan Black/ 780 Ti. Nvidia would be stupid to fire the strongest weapon, when they can get the most money out of playing it slow step by step with small upgrades. I am pretty sure we will see a 20nm Maxwell next year with a big performance jump, but it won't be this month, it won't be named GTX 880, but it will probably more expensive than 500€/$


----------



## sugarhell

http://wccftech.com/msi-teases-geforce-gtx-980-geforce-gtx-970-gpus-generation-twin-frozr-cooling-solution/

did anyone checked this?


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MapRef41N93W*
> 
> Where exactly can one get a RVE or XPower for 349.99?
> 
> Edit: Just saw this post was a week old. OCN took me to those posts as if they were new when I clicked the thread. My bad.


lol







yeah that was when we thought the price was gonna be $500+ at the price it is now, its a steal.


----------



## Silent Scone

No, couldn't give a crap about the coolers though.

Two 6 pin. Awesome.


----------



## Menta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> don't wanna burst your bubble mate, but 20nm + Maxwell architecture is too big a jump. There is no challenge/pressure from AMD.
> A 20nm GTX 880 with 350-400mm² die size would be like 50+% better than a GTX Titan Black/ 780 Ti. Nvidia would be stupid to fire the strongest weapon, when they can get the most money out of playing it slow step by step with small upgrades. I am pretty sure we will see a 20nm Maxwell next year with a big performance jump, but it won't be this month, it won't be named GTX 880, but it will probably more expensive than 500€/$


You probably right 50% would be massive, but then again 10 to 15 % is nor that impressive, will settle for a 25% jump at 550 euros









i am getting impatient because i want to play a few games got titanfall on sale for 17 euros, and cant play... i can on intel 4600 but.....it handles the game rather well i guess, for onboard


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> i think it will 20nm now, its been a long wait
> 
> 
> 
> don't wanna burst your bubble mate, but 20nm + Maxwell architecture is too big a jump. *There is no challenge/pressure from AMD.*
Click to expand...

No pressure from AMD? *Wat!* AMD is due for a release in Q1 or Q2 and it's most likely to be 20nm and if NVIDIA fills the stocks with suboptimal GPUs when that day comes they'll be caught off guard.

The chances are a miraculous 28nm maxwell that competes with 20nm AMD (*very unlikely*) or an intermediary replacement of the 770 or maybe the 780 on 28nm before a 20nm chip.

A variation of the second scenario could happen with a 780 Ti replacement or the "Titan 2" stories but the first point that AMD is looming with something potentially major is big.

In general, 20nm is looming, so one must be very careful whatever they do on 28nm when their competitor may use 20nm.

Henceforth, NVIDIA may go directly 20nm too.

QED.


----------



## Pikaru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> just how much faster can Maxwell be while still being 28nm? We've all seen how delays in node changes can affect performance. AMD planned both Cayman and Hawaii on smaller manufacturing processes then what they ended up launching on and both suffered for it, Cayman was barely faster than Cypress and Hawaii is a power Hog. Nvidia planned for Maxwell to launch on a smaller process as well...
> 
> 
> 
> well Maxwell is a lot faster than Kepler core for core/clock for clock/die size for die size, but the more important question is how much faster are the cards we are actually going to get?
> Also it is safe to assume that the GM204 GTX 880 is going to have a die size bigger than the GK104 GTX 680 but smaller than the GTX 780 Ti.
> 
> I'd be disappointed if the GTX 880 is not atleast 15% faster than the 780 Ti (both at stock clock) and has good overclockability. I am ready and willing to spend 500€ on a GTX 880, but only if it is a performance jump ( well atleast on 1080p/120hz where I am at) . I don't care for 4k or surround so I don't worry about the VRAM / memory interface.
> 15-20% better on 1080p than a 780 Ti (both reference designs, both stock clocks) and good overclockability would make me buy one.
> 
> But I am pretty sure the GTX 880 is going to be trumped by an Nvidia behemoth in a few months. So I'd say the GTX 880 might not be the best buy for people who currently have a good card and can wait. If I had a 780 Ti Kingpin I'd not upgrade to an 880, but wait for something bigger.
> Although I don't expect whatever is coming after the GTX 880 to be have a better price/performance ratio. If either a GTX 880 Ti or Titan 2 is coming I am sure it'll be 650-1000€/$.
Click to expand...

What is it that you're not able to run at 1080p with a 780ti that makes you want to upgrade already?


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> No pressure from AMD? *Wat!* AMD is due for a release in Q1 or Q2 and it's most likely to be 20nm and if NVIDIA fills the stocks with suboptimal GPUs when that day comes they'll be caught off guard.
> 
> The chances are a miraculous 28nm maxwell that competes with 20nm AMD (*very unlikely*) or an intermediary replacement of the 770 or maybe the 780 on 28nm before a 20nm chip.
> 
> A variation of the second scenario could happen with a 780 Ti replacement or the "Titan 2" stories but the first point that AMD is looming with something potentially major is big.
> 
> In general, 20nm is looming, so one must be very careful whatever they do on 28nm when their competitor may use 20nm.
> 
> Henceforth, NVIDIA may go directly 20nm too.
> 
> QED.


Maybe they'll "launch" the 880 on 20nm but with very little product available. Paper launch, I think that's called?


----------



## Menta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krel*
> 
> Maybe they'll "launch" the 880 on 20nm but with very little product available. Paper launch, I think that's called?


many are eager for the new series would be a huge let down, but seeing how even MSI is showing off their cooler, i dont think so, Nvidia is going big on the hype train


----------



## TMatzelle60

Lets all hope its not like the Nvidia hype when they showed there new processor coming out for the FX series and it was just a relaunch with a water cooler included.


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> many are eager for the new series would be a huge let down, but seeing how even MSI is showing off their cooler, i dont think so, Nvidia is going big on the hype train


I'd love to get three 880's on 20nm in a month or so...


----------



## Wirerat

so nvidea is skipping 800 and moving right into 900.
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2014/08/29/nvidia-gtx-900-rumour/1


----------



## Mand12

Yeah, I don't believe that for a second.


----------



## TMatzelle60

Wirerat,

Yea that is the rumor. Videocardz.com was the first to post it. But as all rumors we don't know what there doing till the official word.

PS Your avatar is so true lol what my son does at night after being on the pc


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pikaru*
> 
> What is it that you're not able to run at 1080p with a 780ti that makes you want to upgrade already?


Well I don't have a 780 Ti.

If I had a 780 Ti I probably would not upgrade to a 880.


----------



## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Yeah, I don't believe that for a second.


it is rumor mill however nvidea has skipped for the same reason before.

There was no desktop 380, 370 ect.


----------



## Menta




----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*


Translated as, "you think the price on the Titan Z was bad? Just wait!"

I'd put a







on there but it's not really all that funny, is it?


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*


Interesting. That "to celebrate gaming" though sounds lackluster. But, you never know.

It's likely a 770 replacement maxwell on 28nm.


----------



## Menta

well it could be"lets get them drunk first at the party"


----------



## ad hoc

Man, I am super excited. I'm really hoping the 870/970 will fall somewhere around the $400 price-range. My 6300 will probably bottleneck, but I can't resist the new hotness.


----------



## fateswarm

Ah, wait a minute. There is a whole website on the tweet. http://game24.nvidia.com/#/info



It doesn't sound like GPUs.

Still a chance though.


----------



## Menta

there is way to many to many threads on the same subject...i think a merge is needed


----------



## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> there is way to many to many threads on the same subject...i think a merge is needed


Ya, can a mod please merge all these threads together?


----------



## ref

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Ya, can a mod please merge all these threads together?


Yeah, I gotta agree, it's annoying going from one thread to another regarding news on the next Nvidia cards.


----------



## TMatzelle60

I just flagged the first post to get a mod attention about trying to put these together. Really excited to see the hopefully new cards come out.


----------



## i7monkey

Can a MOD please merge all GTX 880/980/Titan 2/Maxwell threads please?

THANK YOU.


----------



## delusion87

Here i'm hoping 970/870 price will fall between 350-400 euros.
4890 needs an upgrade







.
But its taking tooooooooooooooooooooooo long already. Been checking all the news on multiple forums since the rumors.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *delusion87*
> 
> Here i'm hoping 970/870 price will fall between 350-400 euros.
> 4890 needs an upgrade
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> But its taking tooooooooooooooooooooooo long already. Been checking all the news on multiple forums since the rumors.


lol even a 290X would be almost 6 times as fast as that card. You've been very patient.


----------



## Darkpriest667

LOL I'd bet 100 dollars its a shield or tegra announcement. We gotta admit AMD is good at deceiving it's customers and Nvidia are the masters at trolling theirs. Good God nvidia quit playing tantra and blow your load already. It's probably not that impressive anyway!


----------



## szeged

i pretty much watch every nvidia event hoping for a new gpu, but expecting a new mobile device. sad but true.


----------



## TMatzelle60

How do you know the 290x will be faster?


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> i pretty much watch every nvidia event hoping for a new gpu, but expecting a new mobile device. sad but true.


Hopefully it isn't a repeat of gamescom just chanting and t-shirts


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Ah, wait a minute. There is a whole website on the tweet. http://game24.nvidia.com/#/info
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't sound like GPUs.
> 
> Still a chance though.


Techpowerup says it is likely the next gen -gtx 980 and 970 launch







!


----------



## delusion87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> lol even a 290X would be almost 6 times as fast as that card. You've been very patient.


Yea, till now i can still play all games (that i now play at least on high settings no AA). The card is a beast still but i'm not able to play BF4 and other shooters + new engine games.
And yea, patience has almost ran out lol.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Ah, wait a minute. There is a whole website on the tweet. http://game24.nvidia.com/#/info
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't sound like GPUs.
> 
> Still a chance though.
> 
> 
> 
> Techpowerup says it is likely the next gen -gtx 980 and 970 launch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !
Click to expand...

Could be. The date is right.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> LOL I'd bet 100 dollars its a shield or tegra announcement. We gotta admit AMD is good at deceiving it's customers and Nvidia are the masters at trolling theirs. Good God nvidia quit playing tantra and blow your load already. It's probably not that impressive anyway!


It's Maxwell.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> http://videocardz.com/52108/nvidia-announces-game24-24-gaming-event-maxwelliscoming


----------



## FreeElectron

Are we there yet?


----------



## Yop

Still hope for no stacked DVI.


----------



## Serandur

Originally, I was planning on simply keeping my 780 for this next round, but 1440p changed my mind. Bring on an affordable 880/980 and I'll sell my 780 for one.


----------



## Wezzor

This might a bit off-top, but how much do I need to pay for a decent 1440p screen?


----------



## soulwrath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wezzor*
> 
> This might a bit off-top, but how much do I need to pay for a decent 1440p screen?


in America it would be around $400-500 for a decent 120hz 28" 1440P monitor or the RoG swift which is like $700?


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulwrath*
> 
> in America it would be around $400-500 for a decent 120hz 28" 1440P monitor or the RoG swift which is like $700?


There are no decent 120 Hz 1440p other than the Swift. There are the "overclocked" Korean panels, but I truly doubt the actual performance of any of those claiming to get 120 Hz.


----------



## fateswarm

I've derived the best "enthusiast" monitor option that doesn't feel "too cost ineffective" or "locked into NVIDIA or AMD" is a monitor with a strobe backlight function. It looks good, it feels good, and since the user will likely be of the calibre of very high end GPUs, it may not even need variable syncing. In fact, ironically, many g-sync users ended up using that feature more than the sync (it can't be used simultaneously) since they rarely have fps issues and it looks great in itself.


----------



## Cr4zy

Just found this on OCUK, Gibbo claiming 4 and 8GB with a minimal gain over current single card performance?
Quote:


> 980 / 970 4GB reference cards with 8GB coming at a later date with custom coolers. Can't say any more but don't expect a huge leap in performance over current single GPU stuff.


ocuk

oh and its a replacement for the 780 might not even match a 780ti?
Quote:


> They replace 780, not 780Ti.
> 
> Performance wise, my lips are sealed on how it compares to 780Ti, but of course 980 is quicker than 780 for sure!


ocuk


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cr4zy*
> 
> Just found this on OCUK, Gibbo claiming 4 and 8GB with a minimal gain over current single card performance?
> ocuk
> 
> oh and its a replacement for the 780 might not even match a 780ti?
> ocuk


Brilliant find!

I think there's a good chance these cards will be priced really well then!

Also, if that's the case the 980 Ti is sounding more logical.


----------



## Mand12

Forgive me, but who is Gibbo and why should I believe this any more than the dozen other rumors?

I'm inclined to believe nothing on performance until the post-NDA-lift reviews.


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> There are no decent 120 Hz 1440p other than the Swift. There are the "overclocked" Korean panels, *but I truly doubt the actual performance of any of those claiming to get 120 Hz*.


What does that even mean? Certain Korean panels(Qnix, certain Catleaps) do indeed overclock to 120hz or beyond, you can "doubt" it all you want, but it's a fact.


----------



## Mand12

Oh, I have no doubt whatsoever that they're issuing a command to update the pixels 120 times a second.

Doesn't mean the pixels are actually updating that quickly.


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Oh, I have no doubt whatsoever that they're issuing a command to update the pixels 120 times a second.
> 
> Doesn't mean the pixels are actually updating that quickly.


Well you need to do some research then, because it's been tested. I advise going to blurbusters. Or...just ask anyone who's had " real " 120hz panels and overclocked korean panels.


----------



## jojoenglish85

i love when these card wars breakout, last year when the 2XX series dropped people were paying well over 450 for a card now im looking at them going for 200+, pretty sad actually, but a win win for people wanting to taste the next gen.


----------



## szeged

If the 980 is the same performance as a 780ti but with 4gb vram....then many lols will be coming nvidias way from me.


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> If the 980 is the same performance as a 780ti but with 4gb vram....then many lols will be coming nvidias way from me.


If the performance is the same, I certainly hope they're a lot cheaper.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Oh, I have no doubt whatsoever that they're issuing a command to update the pixels 120 times a second.
> 
> Doesn't mean the pixels are actually updating that quickly.


People have tested for actual pixel timings updating, actually







. On the vast majority of panels there is no frameskipping/refresh issues at 120hz for the Korean ones.


----------



## zealord

I'd actually be really mad when the performance is around the 780 Ti lol.

I hope he is just referring to the naming and not the performance. Meaning that a 880 Ti / 980 Ti as a "replacement" for the 780 Ti might be highly likely.

15% on a 780 Ti and a good overclockability like the 750 Ti would be enough to make me buy one, but let's say within 5% of the 780 Ti, but still 500€ --> mad and disappointed.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> If the 980 is the same performance as a 780ti but with 4gb vram....then many lols will be coming nvidias way from me.


I wouldn't complain about the equivalent of a 4gb ti with a $399 price tag








and better overclockability being Maxwell potentially.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> I'd actually be really mad when the performance is around the 780 Ti lol.
> 
> I hope he is just referring to the naming and not the performance. Meaning that a 880 Ti / 980 Ti as a "replacement" for the 780 Ti might be highly likely.
> 
> 15% on a 780 Ti and a good overclockability like the 750 Ti would be enough to make me buy one, but let's say within 5% of the 780 Ti, but still 500€ --> mad and disappointed.


I read it that way too, and would be disappointed if it was only within +/-5% of a 780 Ti and still cost $500+ at this point in time. It needs to have good overclockability and 15% better at least to command that price tag now in my opinion and feel like I'm getting a reasonable deal.


----------



## specopsFI

Gibbo said two things. One: you shouldn't expect a single GPU performance leap. Two: the 980 will be faster than 780.

So that puts the 980 somewhere from slightly slower than 780Ti to slightly faster than 780Ti. Sounds about right to me, as my running prediction is similar performance to 780Ti, max 200W TDP and launch price of $499. And then there is the extra GB of VRAM.

BTW: just sold my 780 for the same $$$ as I bought it. Gonna have to get by with my secondary 670 for a while, but everything is pointing towards a nice launch day 980 for me. Or maybe a 970, that remains to be seen


----------



## CasualCat

Guess my question is what is a leap to him? Is the 15% ppl are hoping for considered a leap?


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *specopsFI*
> 
> Gibbo said two things. One: you shouldn't expect a single GPU performance leap. Two: the 980 will be faster than 780.
> 
> So that puts the 980 somewhere from slightly slower than 780Ti to slightly faster than 780Ti. Sounds about right to me, as my running prediction is similar performance to 780Ti, max 200W TDP and launch price of $499. And then there is the extra GB of VRAM.
> 
> BTW: just sold my 780 for the same $$$ as I bought it. Gonna have to get by with my secondary 670 for a while, but everything is pointing towards a nice launch day 980 for me. Or maybe a 970, that remains to be seen


Very nice, I sold my 780 wayyyyy too early (but got a good bit back out of it, not really far off from what I paid) and have been on a gtx 750 ti for about a month now. Can't wait to grab a pair of GTX 970's for SLI







if they come in at $399/ea. And yeah, you are correct, he did a very good job of writing something that sounds like one thing, but actually doesn't say it. All he actually firmly says in that post is what you commented on: don't expect a giant leap (what does that mean to him? is 30% a leap? 40%? 70%?), and that it'll be faster than a 780.

I'd argue he also just about says the price range is competing on the 780 spectrum, not the Ti but that's not written completely bluntly.


----------



## Mand12

People have been saying the same unsubstantiated rumors for months. Why should I believe this one?


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CasualCat*
> 
> Guess my question is what is a leap to him? Is the 15% ppl are hoping for considered a leap?


Isn't the 780 Ti around 12-15% faster than a 780?


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> Isn't the 780 Ti around 12-15% faster than a 780?


20% or so depending on game/resolution.


----------



## specopsFI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> People have been saying the same unsubstantiated rumors for months. Why should I believe this one?


Because Gibbo represents a major retailer and is known to spill some minor beans before NDAs are lifted. He did it with 780Ti, too. This is the first performance indication that I, personally, believe in.


----------



## Alatar

It'll be absolutely hilarious if 780Ti Classys and Titans will still have the performance crown for OC'd cards









My 2c:

If GM204 is a 4 GPC part (2560 cores, this is what I've considered the most likely config), It'll likely outperform the 780Ti without much issue. Not by a huge margin but still a healthy jump, especially if the clocks are reasonable.

If GM204 is a 3 GPC part (1920 cores, I don't see why NV would go this route when they didn't with GK104 or GF104 or GF114), It'll struggle against the GK110 cards, especially at high clocks, maybe beating them by a tiny bit.


----------



## Mand12

I just can't see how it's plausible that Nvidia makes a huge deal about a new architecture only to end up saying "Just as good as what you have already, and you might save on your electric bill!"

Really, do people think they're _that_ suicidal as a business?


----------



## specopsFI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> I just can't see how it's plausible that Nvidia makes a huge deal about a new architecture only to end up saying "Just as good as what you have already, and you might save on your electric bill!"
> 
> Really, do people think they're _that_ suicidal as a business?


That's not a suicide at all. Better perf/$ with less noise and heat is actually a pretty strong showing. Of course I hope for faster than 780Ti (especially when both OC'd on air), but seeing how Nvidia played their hand with the 750Ti, my bet is on similar performance to 780Ti with power/heat/noise savings and a smaller price tag. If this was 980Ti or Titan 2, then yes, it would have to be way faster than 780Ti.


----------



## Mand12

You can't possibly believe that "better perf/$, same perf" is anywhere close to as good a strategy as "better perf." Not for a major architecture update.

Perf/$ matters, but if you're not making something _actually better_ people are not going to upgrade...because it's not an upgrade.

Do you have any idea how much Maxwell cost them? To not have a performance increase would, actually, be suicidal for them as a business.


----------



## specopsFI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> You can't possibly believe that "better perf/$, same perf" is anywhere close to as good a strategy as "better perf." Not for a major architecture update.
> 
> Perf/$ matters, but if you're not making something _actually better_ people are not going to upgrade...because it's not an upgrade.
> 
> Do you have any idea how much Maxwell cost them? To not have a performance increase would, actually, be suicidal for them as a business.


Dude, chill.

You're talking about GK110 to GM204. Same performance for less money, power, heat and noise is actually spot on. The time for performance leap will come, it's just not here yet.


----------



## Mand12

So, what you're saying is 680 didn't beat the prior gen?


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> So, what you're saying is 680 didn't beat the prior gen?


This is where I at least care about the name. If it comes out comparable to the 780ti it better not be a _80 part and be a _70 part instead. Otherwise they're basically throwing out all precedence.


----------



## specopsFI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> So, what you're saying is 680 didn't beat the prior gen?


Where did I say that?









You can scream and shout all you want, that won't make a difference. GK110 is way bigger than GM204 and there is no process advantage either.

I've made my point and until you counter with something way more substantial than "it MUST be faster", I'm done here.


----------



## i7monkey

Part of me hopes it's really disappointing so it lowers my urge to buy it.

Give me 20nm big-die GM200/210 or go screw yourself


----------



## kostacurtas

Quote:


> 980 / 970 4GB reference cards with 8GB coming at a later date with custom coolers. Can't say any more but don't expect a huge leap in performance over current single GPU stuff.


Huge leap in my mind is +35% or more, so is still possible to have for the 980 +15% of 780ti. That is what I am hoping for, because as he said 980 replaces 780, not 780ti.

So the 980 with +15% of 780ti, about 499$, +1GB VRAM, probably better OC/thermal/noise levels, maybe DX12 support and extras like new thermal designs like Twin Frozr V is totally fine for me as a upgrade from my 780ti.

My 780ti died about a month ago and I choose to take credit and not a replacement of my card, so I am ready for a 980.


----------



## zeroknight

I'm waiting just to see where prices fall versus performance against the 780ti. I currently upgraded to a 1440p 144hz monitor (ROG Swift) and I am currently operating it off of a GTX 670. I'm not 100% sure based on what I've heard whether I should upgrade to a 780ti or the new 900 series or wait still further to the next cards. Also torn about SLI to boost frame rates at this higher resolution. Decisions decisions.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> I just can't see how it's plausible that Nvidia makes a huge deal about a new architecture only to end up saying "Just as good as what you have already, and you might save on your electric bill!"
> 
> Really, do people think they're _that_ suicidal as a business?


This

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CasualCat*
> 
> This is where I at least care about the name. If it comes out comparable to the 780ti it better not be a _80 part and be a _70 part instead. Otherwise they're basically throwing out all precedence.


And this

I understand what some of you are saying, but anybody thinking that naming a card a 980 and having it be the slightly slower or the same performance as a card named 780Ti is silly. Either it needs to be called a 970 (heck, even 970Ti would make more sense) or it needs to be faster than the 780Ti. Nvidia only uses the Ti on the _80 part when it has to (you know, to take back the performance crown), so why start off the 900 series with an eventual need for a 980Ti part?


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *specopsFI*
> 
> GK110 is way bigger than GM204 and there is no process advantage either.


You don't know that there is no process advantage.


----------



## Serandur

Frankly, Maxwell is a failure of an architecture if the full GM204 part isn't enough to surpass a 780Ti by at least 20%, process node advantage or not. The only other way to make sense of that not occurring would be the GM204 being extremely piss-poor in comparison to the supposed GM200, in which case people are going to be really pissed off.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serandur*
> 
> Frankly, Maxwell is a failure of an architecture if the full GM204 part isn't enough to surpass a 780Ti by at least 20%, process node advantage or not. The only other way to make sense of that not occurring would be the GM204 being extremely piss-poor in comparison to the supposed GM200, in which case people are going to be really pissed off.


And if that is the case, the GM200 part should be the 980, even if it has to come out at a later date.

Unless, Nvidia is going to a new naming scheme. GTX990 for the top card and GTX990X2 if they release a dual gpu card. Yes, you heard the rumor here first.


----------



## ambientblue

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> And if that is the case, the GM200 part should be the 980, even if it has to come out at a later date.
> 
> Unless, Nvidia is going to a new naming scheme. GTX990 for the top card and GTX990X2 if they release a dual gpu card. Yes, you heard the rumor here first.


Alright, contact WCCF


----------



## specopsFI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> You don't know that there is no process advantage.


You can be just as much of a nihilist as you want about this but I won't budge on my stand without some _evidence_ to counter it. I don't know and neither does anyone else who isn't in the inner circle but as this is a speculation thread in the rumors sub forum, speculation is much more on topic than nihilism.

If the GM204 somehow, miraculously, turns out to actually be built on 20nm, _then_ you'd have a point: it really _should_ be way faster than 780Ti.


----------



## NABBO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> ,
> 
> If GM204 is a 3 GPC part (1920 cores, I don't see why NV would go this route when they didn't with GK104 or GF104 or GF114)


because of pp...

no improvement, always 28nm.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *specopsFI*
> 
> You can be just as much of a nihilist as you want about this but I won't budge on my stand without some _evidence_ to counter it. I don't know and neither does anyone else who isn't in the inner circle but as this is a speculation thread in the rumors sub forum, speculation is much more on topic than nihilism.
> 
> If the GM204 somehow, miraculously, turns out to actually be built on 20nm, _then_ you'd have a point: it really _should_ be way faster than 780Ti.


You ask me for evidence that it's not 28nm, but I'm saying I don't know whether it's 28nm or not.

You on the other hand are _absolutely sure,_ and yet you have no evidence whatsoever. All we have are rumors that got echo chambered by the usual rumor sites into something that "everybody knows." We don't know. We really don't. And we won't for another two weeks.


----------



## Ghoxt

If Maxwell GM204 is released in between 780 and 780 ti whats the point selling it, really? We already have that performance and have had that level of performance for over a year.

There's a good marketing slogan. We're gonna give you the same performance and let you save money on your electric bill? Right...

NVidia caring about "Us" saving money?? Someone is talking about a different Nvidia than the one we know. I'm expecting a performance increase and it being priced according to what the market will bear.


----------



## specopsFI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> You ask me for evidence that it's not 28nm, but I'm saying I don't know whether it's 28nm or not.
> 
> You on the other hand are _absolutely sure,_ and yet you have no evidence whatsoever. All we have are rumors that got echo chambered by the usual rumor sites into something that "everybody knows." We don't know. We really don't. And we won't for another two weeks.


You really like to argue, don't you?

I absolutely 100% sure did not say that I was sure. I absolutely 100% sure did say that I don't know. It is the evidence pointing in the direction of 28nm, not my personal opinion.

If 20nm were ready for GPUs, AMD would most likely be making the jump just as fast as Nvidia, if not faster. Yet there is nothing in the rumor mill suggesting that. On the contrary, AMD _just_ released a new 28nm chip on a refreshed architecture.

Also, nothing in the rumors about the GM204 is making me think 20nm. The chip seems to be relatively big for a mid class GPU. I can't think of a reason why Nvidia would be willing to increase the size of their bread-and-butter chip if they had the process node on their side. A ~400mm2 chip on 20nm should destroy the GK110 and the most reliable source so far on GM204 performance is suggesting against that.

See? I'm not asking for _proof_, I'm asking for _evidence_. I've seen evidence backing up my point of view. If you have something, then please: bring it on. "No one knows nothing" is, in fact, not true. There are people who know. It's just that most of them are keeping it to themselves, not everyone though.


----------



## sugarhell

this doesnt look good

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=26840671&postcount=2638


----------



## Mand12

We've been hearing that same rumor for months. Just because it's repeated by someone with credibility does not make it true.

Wait and see, people. We'll know soon enough. Then we can panic if it's not to our liking.


----------



## frag06

The Gibbo info is interesting. I think I'd be OK with a 980 for $500, if it can be overclocked well and the performance increase is more than just five or ten percent. It would be great to have performance better than the 780 ti, though.

I've had two 770's that I have had problems with, both of which were bought early last month (one was a replacement). At this point, I would rather keep the money and buy a 980. Good performance improvement (over the 770) and only $150 dollars more (if the rumors are true).

Anyone know how long it usually takes for EVGA, Asus, MSI, ect. to release their custom cards?


----------



## szeged

if a stock 980 doesnt beat a stock 780ti or overclocked 780ti, the only thing that would make me get one is if it can overclock to the moon and back...a few times.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> this doesnt look good
> 
> http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=26840671&postcount=2638


Reading that tells me that whatever we get next will be faster than current single gpu stuff. Last I checked a 780Ti is part of that single gpu stuff. So I am still leaning towards a 980 being faster than a 780Ti. No reason to not believe so.


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Reading that tells me that whatever we get next will be faster than current single gpu stuff. Last I checked a 780Ti is part of that single gpu stuff. So I am still leaning towards a 980 being faster than a 780Ti. No reason to not believe so.


http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=26843182&postcount=2662


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=26843182&postcount=2662


From what I have seen in the past with Gibbo, he is pretty spot on when he "leaks" things. But his wink smiley... I am guessing he is just holding back a little bit on information. Still don't see how it makes sense for a newer flagship card to be slower than a last generation card. I guess we will know soon enough.

Edit: I mean it is a given that a 980 has to be faster than a 780. He really isn't telling us anything that is shocking there.


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> From what I have seen in the past with Gibbo, he is pretty spot on when he "leaks" things. But his wink smiley... I am guessing he is just holding back a little bit on information. Still don't see how it makes sense for a newer flagship card to be slower than a last generation card. I guess we will know soon enough.


we dont know if it is a flagship. maybe the ******ed amd and nvidia rebrand thing comes back


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> we dont know if it is a flagship. maybe the ******ed amd and nvidia rebrand thing comes back


This is true. Like I said earlier, GTX990 and GTX990X2 incoming!


----------



## i7monkey

I don't care what anyone says it makes zero business sense for a next-gen flagship like the 980 to be slower than the previous gen's single gpu flagship (780Ti).

It also makes no sense for it to be just as fast or barely faster than the 780Ti. "We've spent 5 billion on R&D for Maxwell [straight from Huang's mouth) and we're going to give you the SAME performance as last year's model! You might even save a couple of bucks on your electricity bill!".

Sorry, NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

At worst it's going to be 10-15% faster than the Ti, which is still a disappointment, but whatever.


----------



## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> This is true. Like I said earlier, GTX990 and GTX990X2 incoming!


Good god! Please no!

They're definitely going to get us on the Maxwell refresh since they won't be using the GTX1080 branding.

GTX Viper flagship!

4 months later

GTX Viper V12 Ti Edition









But in all seriousness, we should always assume they're going to milk u as long as there's cores disabled on their GPUs.


----------



## NABBO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> This is true. Like I said earlier, GTX990 and GTX990X2 incoming!


Imho GTX 990 dual gpu GM204 , Best gpu performance single pcb (







)

and GM200 Q2 2015


----------



## NABBO

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=59531&page=78


----------



## i7monkey

Hurry up AMD, you need to force Nvidia`s hand here.

Release a cheap, beastly R390X on 20nm so Nvidia can give us the good stuff.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> GTX990X2 incoming!


If this means it's a quad GPU in a single card, that would make me


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Hurry up AMD, you need to force Nvidia`s hand here.
> 
> Release a cheap, beastly R390X on 20nm so Nvidia can give us the good stuff.


AMD wont release any performance parts till a smaller Node is in production. The 290X is sadly all you're gonna get against Maxwell for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Menta

Dam not looking good, faster 780 slower 780 ti? 785 gtx really







where have i seen this film


----------



## ref

Ugh, I've waited for like 5 months now with my 670 when I could have gotten 2 780ti's instead of waiting for Maxwell.

Really gonna be disappointed if they are not as powerful as the 780Ti


----------



## CaliLife17

I take Gibbo's comments, more to mean that the next gen card will not be a fully unlocked card. Where as the 780 had 4 Graphic Cluster Processors (GPC) and 12 SMX;s, the 780 Ti, had 5 GPC's and 15 SMX's which was a fully activated die.

So how I see it is he is saying that the 980 will again have some SMX's and GPC's shutdown, and will be a "gimped" chip. Which then leaves Nvidia to release a 980 Ti with the full GPC and SMX count.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Good god! Please no!
> 
> They're definitely going to get us on the Maxwell refresh since they won't be using the GTX1080 branding.
> 
> *GTX Viper flagship!
> *
> 4 months later
> 
> GTX Viper V12 Ti Edition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But in all seriousness, we should always assume they're going to milk u as long as there's cores disabled on their GPUs.


That actually sounds pretty badass to be honest.









Besides, i think this thing will be as fast or around a few percentage points faster than the 780ti while overclocking alot better and consuming alot less power. . *It's still 28nm* and since it's a midrange part then it competing against another 28nm Fully unlocked part is extremely impressive by any metric. Faster than the 290X by 15% is really all Nvidia need to sell the 980.


----------



## i7monkey

Remember these?


----------



## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> That actually sounds pretty badass to be honest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides, i think this thing will be as fast or around a few percentage points faster than the 780ti while overclocking alot better and consuming alot less power. . *It's still 28nm* and since it's a midrange part then it competing against another 28nm Fully unlocked part is extremely impressive by any metric. Faster than the 290X by 15% is really all Nvidia need to sell the 980.


Hmm...so Q1-Q2 then?


----------



## ambientblue

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CaliLife17*
> 
> I take Gibbo's comments, more to mean that the next gen card will not be a fully unlocked card. Where as the 780 had 4 Graphic Cluster Processors (GPC) and 12 SMX;s, the 780 Ti, had 5 GPC's and 15 SMX's which was a fully activated die.
> 
> So how I see it is he is saying that the 980 will again have some SMX's and GPC's shutdown, and will be a "gimped" chip. Which then leaves Nvidia to release a 980 Ti with the full GPC and SMX count.


no no no. Thats because the GTX 780 was a top end chip, and didnt need to be fully utilized to surpass a GTX 680 easily.. The 880/980 or whatever its called isnt a top end silicon. It will be fully utilized, I would expect its successor to follow in the footsteps of the GTX 780 though.


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ambientblue*
> 
> no no no. Thats because the GTX 780 was a top end chip, and didnt need to be fully utilized to surpass a GTX 680 easily.. The 880/980 or whatever its called isnt a top end silicon. It will be fully utilized, I would expect its successor to follow in the footsteps of the GTX 780 though.


That's with the assumption that Nvidia was 100% efficient with the Lithography design of Kepler. Maxwell is different lithography, and even if on 28nm as we expect it could behave completely different in performance. The 750 gave us a taste. Nvidia did not have to release the 750 at all, but did to let us know I would imagine what is ahead in my opinion.

Like a 2014 stock Mustang auto and a stock Corvette. Both have the exact same engineering basically. Yet due to the engineering one will get you to a quarter mile faster.

In our GPU case we are very limited in choices between "car" vendors for discreet GPU's. We take pretty much what they give us. If one of them creates a Turbo in lithography we won't know it we just see it's faster in the end.

I know you are quoting history, but it's all conjecture and right now we really know absolutely nothing about the next release. Nothing at all.


----------



## fleetfeather

Wow, the old Car reference strikes again









Anyways, I'm keen to see the headroom on these upcoming cards. As has been mentioned, the 750Ti clocked pretty well, so there's a good chance we'll see some impressive overclocks underwater, regardless of how cut-down the die is. Give me a 970 with short PCB and heaps of headroom, and I'll give NV my hard earned dosh.


----------



## FreeElectron

How long till a 980/880 Ti non reference (Classified) is released?


----------



## NoDoz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> How long till a 980/880 Ti non reference (Classified) is released?


3 months, 2 days, 5 hours, 23 minutes, and 15 seconds from the time of this post


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> If this means it's a quad GPU in a single card, that would make me


Haha... it was just a joke and was supposed to be directed at Nvidia doing a rename similar to AMD. So no, it would just be the dual gpu version of the new top end card the GTX990.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Haha... it was just a joke


I know...and I tried to make another one


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> I know...and I tried to make another one


Oh sorry, I thought you misunderstood me. But a quad gpu single pcb card would be amazing. And long!


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Oh sorry, I thought you misunderstood me. But a quad gpu single pcb card would be amazing. And long!


Nah, it was a play on mashing together Nvidia's *90 naming for the dual GPU cards with the x2 from AMD's dual GPU card, for a dual _dual_ GPU card.

Which would be pure win. Except, it'd probably start a fire.


----------



## tkenietz

Hi! first post, long time stalker.

Just was curious what you all think qualifies as a "flagship" since the 780 was the 3rd fastest single gpu card this generation. 780 wasn't even fully enabled which should tell you they planned it as a stopgap all along

The 780 was a direct replacement for the 680, slower than the titan. The 980 being supposedly confirmed direct replacement for 780 why would it surpass anything else by much? (Assuming same process)

It took them a year to offer titan performance at a lower price, I predict the same thing. 780ti/titan plus maybe 5% performance coming down another price point in the form of 980 for $500ish.

Really tho, I just hope to snag a sweet deal out of all this. Lol hoping to either pick up a used 780 or new 870 to replace my aging, only stable with underclocked vram, hd 7850 =)


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tkenietz*
> 
> Hi! first post, long time stalker.
> 
> Just was curious what you all think qualifies as a "flagship" since the 780 was the 3rd fastest single gpu card this generation. 780 wasn't even fully enabled which should tell you they planned it as a stopgap all along
> 
> The 780 was a direct replacement for the 680, slower than the titan. The 980 being supposedly confirmed direct replacement for 780 why would it surpass anything else by much? (Assuming same process)
> 
> It took them a year to offer titan performance at a lower price, I predict the same thing. 780ti/titan plus maybe 5% performance coming down another price point in the form of 980 for $500ish.
> 
> Really tho, I just hope to snag a sweet deal out of all this. Lol hoping to either pick up a used 780 or new 870 to replace my aging, only stable with underclocked vram, hd 7850 =)


you can already get some 780s for really really cheap used, also cheap new now that places are price dropping like mad. If you arent an nvidia fanboy only, the r9 290 out performs the 780 in a lot of games and can be had for even cheaper.


----------



## Pikaru

I just picked up a used 780 ti kingpin for 622 cheap and waiting for it to come in the mail. That should tell you how cheap they're coming down to considering it's 799 new I believe.


----------



## tkenietz

Yeah I've been keeping an eye on the bay and have considered the 290s. I've been waiting a while tho, and a little longer to see how everything pans out won't hurt.

I would prefer a new $300 970 to a used $250 r9 290, but that's being a little hopeful. We'll know soon enough!

Also have a friend who upgrades pretty frequently that's running sli classifieds that I would love to talk him out of. Lol


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tkenietz*
> 
> Hi! first post, long time stalker.
> 
> Just was curious what you all think qualifies as a "flagship" since the 780 was the 3rd fastest single gpu card this generation. 780 wasn't even fully enabled which should tell you they planned it as a stopgap all along
> 
> The 780 was a direct replacement for the 680, slower than the titan. The 980 being supposedly confirmed direct replacement for 780 why would it surpass anything else by much? (Assuming same process)
> 
> It took them a year to offer titan performance at a lower price, I predict the same thing. 780ti/titan plus maybe 5% performance coming down another price point in the form of 980 for $500ish.
> 
> Really tho, I just hope to snag a sweet deal out of all this. Lol hoping to either pick up a used 780 or new 870 to replace my aging, only stable with underclocked vram, hd 7850 =)


"Flagship" = largest number (or word) available in a product line at any given point of time, apparently.









I think the 780 was equally as fast as a Titan, minus DP performance and 3GB of VRAM. (same core count, unless I'm suffering from 4am stupidity?)

Not sure if we could've predicted the 780 as a stopgap. Going any larger was hard to picture, given that a fully unlocked GK110 could significantly eat into Quadro profits (which, eventually, they ended up doing anyway...)

Not sure if this smaller die will be capable of pushing past the fully unlocked, large GK110 GPUs. Maybe when overclocked, if the 750Ti is anything to go by (which it probably isn't).

I feel that this card is going to need to significantly outpace the 780 if used 780 prices are to fall heavily. You'd be amazed how much some people base their "used price" on those benchmarking graphs; suddenly not being top dog makes the card 66% of what it was worth the day before


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> "Flagship" = largest number (or word) available in a product line at any given point of time, apparently.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the 780 was equally as fast as a Titan, minus DP performance and 3GB of VRAM. *(same core count, unless I'm suffering from 4am stupidity?)*
> 
> Not sure if we could've predicted the 780 as a stopgap. Going any larger was hard to picture, given that a fully unlocked GK110 could significantly eat into Quadro profits (which, eventually, they ended up doing anyway...)
> 
> Not sure if this smaller die will be capable of pushing past the fully unlocked, large GK110 GPUs. Maybe when overclocked, if the 750Ti is anything to go by (which it probably isn't).
> 
> I feel that this card is going to need to significantly outpace the 780 if used 780 prices are to fall heavily. You'd be amazed how much some people base their "used price" on those benchmarking graphs; suddenly not being top dog makes the card 66% of what it was worth the day before


The Titan has 2688 cores, the 780 has 2304 cores and was a little slower, somewhere around 5% IIRC but a bump in Core speed by a few Megahertz would make it as fast or faster.
Only a couple of days ago I realized the 384 core difference, which is why in another thread I was wondering what Nvidia were going to the with the original Titan's configuration.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> The Titan has 2688 cores, the 780 has 2304 cores and was a little slower, somewhere around 5% IIRC but a bump in Core speed by a few Megahertz would make it as fast or faster.
> Only a couple of days ago I realized the 384 core difference, which is why in another thread I was wondering what Nvidia were going to the with the original Titan's configuration.


Ah-hah! Fair enough then.









Honestly, that original Titan is such an _old, irrelevant dinosaur_ these days that you could forgive a kid for forgetting the specs.

(@skupples, on a scale of 1 to 10, how rustled are your jimmies right now?)


----------



## FreeElectron

The waiting game is haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard.
I am thinking of getting an R9 290 or a 780 ...


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> The waiting game is haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard.
> I am thinking of getting an R9 290 or a 780 ...


we are so close mate, just wait 2 more weeks


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Ah-hah! Fair enough then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly, that original Titan is such an _old, irrelevant dinosaur_ these days that you could forgive a kid for forgetting the specs.
> 
> (@skupples, on a scale of 1 to 10, how rustled are your jimmies right now?)


lol I didn't really know myself until recently.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> The waiting game is haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard.
> I am thinking of getting an R9 290 or a 780 ...


If you're kinda waiting for the next Nvidia cards and also considering the GTX 780 and the R9 290, if you're willing to I'd say hold out for the next couple of days, only a few days left until the new cards are revealed, the prices may even drop a bit more.

That way you'll have no regrets.

I myself was considering a R9 290 a few days ago, it wasn't a particularly great one in terms of cooling but I was considering it since it had an enticing price drop, and then at OCUK the prices dropped on various R9 290s, especially the Tri-X OC which had a tremendous drop.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> we are so close mate, just wait 2 more weeks


2 more weeks for release
+1 more week for actual in stock release
+x more weeks for a custom decent overclockable pcb (Classified for example)
Then
we go again with unknown more weeks until the TI version is released.
Then maybe AMD will release a product that can compete with nvidia's ti

I am so close to give up


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> we are so close mate, just wait 2 more weeks


For looking at the performances and reviews. No one is gonna buy a stock pcb 980. Cmon, we all waiting for GTX980 Lightning from MSI. Or DirectCU II from ASUS.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> 2 more weeks for release
> +1 more week for actual in stock release
> +x more weeks for a custom decent overclockable pcb (Classified for example)
> Then
> we go again with unknown more weeks until the TI version is released.
> Then maybe AMD will release a product that can compete with nvidia's ti
> 
> I am so close to give up


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> For looking at the performances and reviews. No one is gonna buy a stock pcb 980. Cmon, we all waiting for GTX980 Lightning from MSI. Or DirectCU II from ASUS.


Didn't the R9 285 have custom cards out upon on launch, or close to it?
And with all of this talk of Gigabyte's alleged leak and the ASUS listings I hope the custom cards won't take too long.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> For looking at the performances and reviews. No one is gonna buy a stock pcb 980. Cmon, we all waiting for GTX980 Lightning from MSI. Or DirectCU II from ASUS.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> 2 more weeks for release
> +1 more week for actual in stock release
> +x more weeks for a custom decent overclockable pcb (Classified for example)
> Then
> we go again with unknown more weeks until the TI version is released.
> Then maybe AMD will release a product that can compete with nvidia's ti
> 
> I am so close to give up


I don't think it is going to take so long this time. Dunno, I have a good feeling about custom card. A few things pointed to early custom cards aswell, like the thailand shop thing that listet a Strix 970. Also the MSI guy said late september for the 980 Gaming.

you can do it mates


----------



## Menta

I think we will get non reference from day 1, just a lucky guess, can anyone confirm a Nvidia announcement at the gamespot conference or will they announce the new series only on the 18 at the event.

i am thinking the 18th is more of a party thing rather then the announcement

http://www.gamestop.com/expo/info


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> I think we will get non reference from day 1, just a lucky guess, can anyone confirm a Nvidia announcement at the gamespot conference or will they announce the new series only on the 18 at the event.
> 
> i am thinking the 18th is more of a party thing rather then the announcement
> 
> http://www.gamestop.com/expo/info


I would be ecstatic if they launched @ gamestop's thing but I have no guess as to whether they will.... I got the same feeling though!

Custom GTX 970's are already hitting distributor databases so I think it's a safe bet that we'll see them for launch. 980's I have no idea.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> I don't think it is going to take so long this time. Dunno, I have a good feeling about custom card. A few things pointed to early custom cards aswell, like the thailand shop thing that listet a Strix 970. Also the MSI guy said late september for the 980 Gaming.
> 
> you can do it mates











Hopefully


----------



## Menta

Our Official Vendors Include:



seems like the perfect event to me but dunno


----------



## Hl86

Do we even need with rog swift monitor? my 2x670 is rocking fps fine.


----------



## Chargeit

So, assuming these 980's do launch at the $500 range and assuming 970's $350 or so, what do you think the resale is going to be like on 780's? I'm starting to like the idea of picking up a 2nd 780 cheap, going for surround gaming.

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes to just go SLI/surround, unless the 980's blow peoples socks off.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chargeit*
> 
> So, assuming these 980's do launch at the $500 range and assuming 970's $350 or so, what do you think the resale is going to be like on 780's? I'm starting to like the idea of picking up a 2nd 780 cheap, going for surround gaming.
> 
> The more I think about it, the more sense it makes to just go SLI/surround, unless the 980's blow peoples socks off.


As an advice
Get every bit of fps you can.
The smoother the experience the better your muscle memory will become.
Avoid surround if it will decrease fps.


----------



## Chargeit

Yea, I love smooth gameplay. Of course.









I don't play competitive fps, so, would mainly use the surround gaming in slower games, or single player.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chargeit*
> 
> Yea, I love smooth gameplay. Of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't play competitive fps, so, would mainly use the surround gaming in slower games, or single player.


I will try to describe how smoothness feel to you.

Imagine playing Splinter Cell or Hitman Absolution. In those games you can mark a target and execute. When you execute an auto aim shooting will happen and marked targets will die before they trigger any alarm.

Now imagine being able to do that without marking (Not so sure if any alarms will be triggered or not)
The smooth experience is important because it makes you feel in control.
Feeling in control gives you much more enjoyment than a little big better graphics.

Maybe it's just me but, I would advice that you try this regardless of being a competitive gamer or not.
You will not get that feeling fast though. you will need time and a decent mouse.


----------



## Chargeit

Yea, smoothness is why up until this point I have avoided SLI/Xfire, and multi-monitor gaming.

It sucks, it's one of those things that I'd love to be able to try, see how I like it, and then go from there. Too bad the local BestBuy doesn't have any triple monitor setups on the display floor.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chargeit*
> 
> Yea, smoothness is why up until this point I have avoided SLI/Xfire, and multi-monitor gaming.
> 
> It sucks, it's one of those things that I'd love to be able to try, see how I like it, and then go from there. Too bad the local BestBuy doesn't have any triple monitor setups on the display floor.


oh
So, you want to try what you haven't tried before. Well, in that case i wish you luck







.
Also, i had trifire 7970 sapphires and only few games had stutter issues. The rest were fine.
IIRC, i had stutter in medal of honor and need for speed only.


----------



## Chargeit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> oh
> So, you want to try what you haven't tried before. Well, in that case i wish you luck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Also, i had trifire 7970 sapphires and only few games had stutter issues. The rest were fine.
> IIRC, i had stutter in medal of honor and need for speed only.


Oh, hell yea I want to try it.

The only taste of surround gaming I had, was when I was still using AMD based GPU on my main rig. I had two monitors hooked to it, and tested a game out in dual monitor mode just to see what it was like. I could tell just from that that surround gaming was pretty cool.

I'm still not decided of course. It's just one possible option. If the 980's don't look worth it, then why not add a 2nd 780 and go for 3 monitor surround. I guess if it stutters and I don't like it, I can always pull one of the 780's out, and put it in one of my other rigs.


----------



## Pikaru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chargeit*
> 
> Yea, smoothness is why up until this point I have avoided SLI/Xfire, and multi-monitor gaming.
> 
> It sucks, it's one of those things that I'd love to be able to try, see how I like it, and then go from there. Too bad the local BestBuy doesn't have any triple monitor setups on the display floor.


I've had 770s in SLi and only experienced microstutter in Mass Effect 2 I think... but it was unbearable. Granted it was horrible but I hated it. Also, I played the Crew beta and it wasn't playable at all.

Made me just decide to sell them off and get a 780 ti. I've decided to just get the strongest GPU I can. I still have the itch to go back to SLi just to hit that 144fps cap on my RoG Swift


----------



## Pikaru

Wasn't that horrible* I'm unable to edit posts on Tapatalk...


----------



## Chargeit

Yea, the stutter scares me.

Oh, and I have 3 monitors already, but, ones 22" (I use to monitor vitals), and the other two are 24", but different heights. I did have 2 of the same monitors, but I ended up giving them to my ol'lady and ended up with a bunch of mismatched monitors.


*excuse the patch work tables, I'm trying to figure out something better for that also. I just need so much damned table space.

Still, I just got the go ahead to buy 2 more monitors like my main monitor (got to manage the wife aggro). I'm going to set my main rig up for Surround.

I'm still split on the 2nd 780 vs 980. I'm not buying another GPU until the information about them gets released.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chargeit*
> 
> Yea, the stutter scares me.
> 
> Oh, and I have 3 monitors already, but, ones 22" (I use to monitor vitals), and the other two are 24", but different heights. I did have 2 of the same monitors, but I ended up giving them to my ol'lady and ended up with a bunch of mismatched monitors.
> 
> 
> *excuse the patch work tables, I'm trying to figure out something better for that also. I just need so much damned table space.
> 
> Still, I just got the go ahead to buy 2 more monitors like my main monitor (got to manage the wife aggro). I'm going to set my main rig up for Surround.
> 
> I'm still split on the 2nd 780 vs 980. I'm not buying another GPU until the information about them gets released.


Why don't you move the case to the other table?


----------



## Chargeit

Yea, I'll do something like that. I'll need some type of DVI extension.

I really want to reorganize the room, and cut down to one large corner desk.

I just kind of took our guest bedroom over as my computer room, and then pulled in some tables I had in storage without much regard for cosmetics. Now it will be a little work to get it settled up.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chargeit*
> 
> Yea, I'll do something like that. I'll need some type of DVI extension.
> 
> I really want to reorganize the room, and cut down to one large corner desk.
> 
> I just kind of took our guest bedroom over as my computer room, and then pulled in some tables I had in storage without much regard for cosmetics. Now it will be a little work to get it settled up.


You could also utilize space under the side desk.


----------



## Roelv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chargeit*
> 
> Yea, smoothness is why up until this point I have avoided SLI/Xfire, and multi-monitor gaming.
> 
> It sucks, it's one of those things that I'd love to be able to try, see how I like it, and then go from there. Too bad the local BestBuy doesn't have any triple monitor setups on the display floor.


You don't have to sacrifice smoothness in surround. The only reason surround drops fps is because you're driving more pixels, so if you lower the resolution on each screen by a factor of 3 then your total amount of pixels is the same as single screen, just spread over a larger surface for better immersion. Of course LCD screens are best at native resolution or you would need to divide by 4 (1440P to 720P), so I would always go to the lowest graphics settings before lowering the resolution.

Besides you're not forced to use surround when having 3 monitors, you can still use single screens in games where you prefer that and have 2 more screens that you can use without alt-tabbing.


----------



## Chargeit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> You could also utilize space under the side desk.


That would be extra space, but, I'm not putting my rig on the ground. Just not a good idea.

I'll figure something out.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roelv*
> 
> You don't have to sacrifice smoothness in surround. The only reason surround drops fps is because you're driving more pixels, so if you lower the resolution on each screen by a factor of 3 then your total amount of pixels is the same as single screen.


Without a doubt lowering res would help smoothness. I wouldn't play at non-native res though. I have to say I'd lower other settings, or play on a single display before doing that.

I still haven't ordered my monitor. I was going to get 2 more like the main one I'm using, but, for about the same or less, I can get a 144Hz monitor. I do have 2 24" monitors in here already, so, though they'd be different, I can get one better monitor and use my current 24" for the sides. When I'm playing in surround I can set it to 60Hz, or go 144H for single monitor.

I want the BenQ XL2420Z on Newegg, but I'm seeing those are likely the V1, which have issues compared to V2. It kind of sucks. Right now with the deal they're $323 (I don't pay tax from newegg) shipped from newegg, vs $370 from amazon with tax. The amazon ones are V2.

I'm going to tell you, I don't like the idea of spending almost $400 on a 1080p monitor, even if it is 144Hz. Now, these BenQ XL2411Z 144Hz are $280 shipped, but have much worse contrast then the one above from what I've seen. Those are V2.

If I wasn't trying to get my stuff setup for surround, I'd just buy a 1440p monitor and be done with it.

OK, this all is way off topic. Sorry.


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chargeit*
> 
> That would be extra space, but, I'm not putting my rig on the ground. Just not a good idea.
> 
> I'll figure something out.


Pedestal and chimney? Seriously, the temps under my desk were to the point where I couldn't take it anymore. The chimney has a 200mm fan in it, venting the heat towards the ceiling. It actually works really well, although it's a little goofy looking.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krel*
> 
> Pedestal and chimney? Seriously, the temps under my desk were to the point where I couldn't take it anymore. The chimney has a 200mm fan in it, venting the heat towards the ceiling. It actually works really well, although it's a little goofy looking.


My previous rig with 3 7970 ghz used to keep me warm at winter


----------



## TheBlindDeafMute

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Yes, the 880 will be 20-30% faster than a Titan or 780Ti or Nvidia wouldn't release it. The architecture itself will be the difference as it will net a significant performance advantage over Kepler. Its just like how much faster the 680 as than the 580 even though it was a much smaller chip. The thing is, it will still not be the big Maxwell chip, which is what I am waiting for. That card will be far faster than the 780Ti/Titan and should be out next year sometime....


Doubtful. They are not going to cannibalize their own profits. Why would they make a $550-600 card faster than a $1000 card? Doesn't make sense.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBlindDeafMute*
> 
> Doubtful. They are not going to cannibalize their own profits. Why would they make a $550-600 card faster than a $1000 card? Doesn't make sense.


Because they will release another $1k new flagship card.
Because in computer industry new is better than the old.
What is so hard to understand about that?
If they don't do so people will not consider upgrading which means new products won't sell.
So they have to get a selling reason and that is usually done by either better performance or less price or both.


----------



## TheBlindDeafMute

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Because they will release another $1k new flagship card.
> Because in computer industry new is better than the old.
> What is so hard to understand about that?
> If they don't do so people will not consider upgrading which means new products won't sell.
> So they have to get a selling reason and that is usually done by either better performance or less price or both.


Read what he wrote and what I disagree with. He said that a 880 would be 20-30% faster than a titan. First of all, there is no 880, only 980 as we now know. Secondly, Nvidia will not release a $500 card that beats a card they have on sale for $1000 by that high of a percentage, if at all. What is so hard to understand about that? Lol Save your rage for something else.


----------



## ambientblue

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBlindDeafMute*
> 
> Read what he wrote and what I disagree with. He said that a 880 would be 20-30% faster than a titan. First of all, there is no 880, only 980 as we now know. Secondly, Nvidia will not release a $500 card that beats a card they have on sale for $1000 by that high of a percentage, if at all. What is so hard to understand about that? Lol Save your rage for something else.


The 780 ti came out and beat the TITAN for $300 less and bumped the 780 down to $500. The 980 replaces the 780 in terms of the naming scheme but in terms of the chip itself it replaces the 680/770. Considering the 780 is currently about $500 here, and the 680 made its debut at around that price, it makes perfect sense the 980 will follow suit. It doesnt make sense for the 980 to come in at 780 Ti prices as it wont be beating it by a ton, even though being newer and more efficient. Expect a new TITAN in the next few months and a 980 Ti perhaps later on next year to fill the gap between the 980 and "TITAN 2"

Sure the 980 wont be clobbering the TITAN but it will be better at half the cost. Even the 970 will match a TITAN and it should only be $400


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBlindDeafMute*
> 
> Read what he wrote and what I disagree with. He said that a 880 would be 20-30% faster than a titan. First of all, there is no 880, only 980 as we now know. Secondly, Nvidia will not release a $500 card that beats a card they have on sale for $1000 by that high of a percentage, if at all. What is so hard to understand about that? Lol Save your rage for something else.


I don't really care about the prices or the percentages but the concept is still the same.
There was a titan which is an overpriced crap.
Then there was a cheaper 780 which provided slightly less performance for significantly less price which is a *selling point*
Then there was a 780 Ti which overperformed the Titan and the 780 for less price. *selling point*
Then there was a Titan Black with overperformed the 780 ti slightly but with significantly higher price
Then there was the awfully expensive titan z which i personally think was just made to justify buying a titan black
The ones that got famous and did sell were the 780 and the 780 ti not the titans
You might find people here and there with a titan but not as much as the rest.

What i want to elaborate is that they must make a selling point/a reason for us to consider buying their new product.


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> I don't really care about the prices or the percentages but the concept is still the same.
> There was a titan which is an overpriced crap.
> Then there was a cheaper 780 which provided slightly less performance for significantly less price which is a *selling point*
> Then there was a 780 Ti which overperformed the Titan and the 780 for less price. *selling point*
> Then there was a Titan Black with overperformed the 780 ti slightly but with significantly higher price
> Then there was the awfully expensive titan z which i personally think was just made to justify buying a titan black
> The ones that got famous and did sell were the 780 and the 780 ti not the titans
> You might find people here and there with a titan but not as much as the rest.
> 
> What i want to elaborate is that they must make a selling point/a reason for us to consider buying their new product.


You're right man it's mind control, lol.

Also I believe they didn't put more VRAM on 780 on purpose, just so that they can milk at the late stage a 6gb card, and also just to not make the 780 lifetime not tooo long, and make people have another reason to upgrade (other than just raw performance, you see more VRAM so you're yeeees I'm happy I iz got 4gb!) but that said it's useful to have more VRAM so when a friend asked me which card I'd get if I had money I sad : 780 6gb


----------



## Chargeit

Sorry for the off topic, but.

I fully rearranged my computer room yesterday for when I get my 3rd monitor. It worked out great, and now my computer's side view is seen from the center of the room. =D No more ugly front view.



The room is much more open also. Though I still need to do something about the desk. Took a good 5 hours, and though it worked out great in the end, didn't go 100% as planned. I also need some more extension cables. RCA, and longer DVI. That BenQ XL2420Z I'm getting will be end up in the middle of course.



I really can't wait to see just what these 980's are going to run like. If they are stronger then the 780 ti with 4gb of Vram, I think I might just make the move instead of adding a 2nd 780. Even if I only get one for now, I can add a 2nd easily if they come out at the price range they're supposed to.


----------



## Silent Scone

http://videocardz.com/52321/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-pictured

VRMs look to be a lot more busy, who knows maybe we won't see greenlight volt restrictions with the new drivers.


----------



## Bluemustang

I cant easily find a straight up answer to this. I have a pcie x1 sound card and i'm planning to go SLI with the new maxwell cards. My question is, i know SLI requires x8 pcie lanes even when 3.0 so does x1 steal a lane from that chipset on z97, or does it take that elsewhere? Just need to know whether i can use SLI on z97 while using an x1 sound card.


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## mcg75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bluemustang*
> 
> I cant easily find a straight up answer to this. I have a pcie x1 sound card and i'm planning to go SLI with the new maxwell cards. My question is, i know SLI requires x8 pcie lanes even when 3.0 so does x1 steal a lane from that chipset on z97, or does it take that elsewhere? Just need to know whether i can use SLI on z97 while using an x1 sound card.


http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/performance-chipsets/z97-chipset-diagram.html

The cpu is providing the 16 lanes of pcie 3.0 for your board.

The chipset is providing the lanes for other stuff such as sound cards.

So you'll be fine.


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## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bluemustang*
> 
> I cant easily find a straight up answer to this. I have a pcie x1 sound card and i'm planning to go SLI with the new maxwell cards. My question is, i know SLI requires x8 pcie lanes even when 3.0 so does x1 steal a lane from that chipset on z97, or does it take that elsewhere? Just need to know whether i can use SLI on z97 while using an x1 sound card.


Here is what i can find (I am probably wrong)

According to Intel® Core™ i7-4790K Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.40 GHz)
Quote:


>


So, eventually regardless of the motherboard lane management (Plx or no plx) you have only 16 lanes to CPU

But..
According to Intel® Z97 Chipset Platform Diagram
Quote:


>


This might mean that my understanding of the first link is wrong.
Any way this is all the info i could get..


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## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Here is what i can find (I am probably wrong)
> 
> According to Intel® Core™ i7-4790K Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.40 GHz)
> So, eventually regardless of the motherboard lane management (Plx or no plx) you have only 16 lanes to CPU
> 
> But..
> According to Intel® Z97 Chipset Platform Diagram
> This might mean that my understanding of the first link is wrong.
> Any way this is all the info i could get..


it also has 8x pci 2.0 lanes though.


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