# [Official] Mechanical Keyboard Guide



## Manyak

*[Official]* *Mechanical Keyboard Guide*

*Fact:* Nearly all keyboards sold bundled with computers or at retail stores use rubber domes under their keys. This is the same technology used in cheap TV remotes. They're made to be as cheap as possible to manufacture in order to maximize profits. Yes, this even includes "high end" keyboards. So why settle for something that is made as cheap as possible?

*So why should you get a mechanical keyboard?*

There are a few advantages offered by mechanical keyboards over your typical rubber dome keyboard.


The feel: With a rubber dome keyboard you've got to press the key all the way down to the bottom to get it to register. This wastes a lot of energy and causes fatigue, as most of your effort is spent pushing against a solid piece of plastic. Mechanical keyswitches are designed so that they register before you bottom out, so you only need to apply as much force as is necessary to actuate it, not wasting any.


The choice: Mechanical keyboards are available with many different types of switches. Each different type of switch, whether it be one of the many Cherry MX options, Topre or Buckling Spring (among others) have unique characteristics that set them apart. As such, there are a multitude of options for you to choose from, to make your typing experience that much easier.


The durability: Modern mechanical switches such as Cherry MX varieties and Topre switches are built to withstand millions of keypresses, this combined with the modularity of switches like Cherry MX varieties mean that mechanical keyboards can last you far longer than their rubber dome counterparts. 


The customizability: Due to the use of discrete switches with a common stem, mechanical keyboards are great for customizing, whether it be changing the keycaps, modifying switches, or even putting in a whole new set of different switches into the board. This allows the user to tailor their keyboard to make it perfect for them, if they're willing to put in the work.

*Index*:


Terminology and Inputs


Common Switch Types


Keycap Plastic and Shape


Keycap Printing Methods


Frequently Asked Questions and Recommended Mechanical Keyboards


Keycap Layouts and Where To Buy Keycaps


Maintenance and Removing Keycaps


Miscellaneous Resources


Credits and Thanks


----------



## Manyak

*Terminology*

First, check out the Keyboard Glossary for basic terms, these will be used in this guide and throughout the section and will help you make sense of the information presented.

*Key Matrix*

Modern keyboards use a matrix to detect when keys are pressed. This is required so each individual key (of which there may be over 100) doesn't need to be connected to the board controller separately.

*Ghosting*

The event when two keys on the board are pressed, and a third key that you didn't press is triggered. This is very rarely seen on even the cheapest modern boards, because manufacturers have the habit of limiting the rollover so that ghost keys are always blocked.

*Key Blocking*

The event when maximum key rollover is reached and the computer doesn't register certain keys that are pressed. This occurs due to the way the keyboard checks which keys are pressed. To fix the ghosting issue, many boards are set to not register the input of a given key if the input is received at the same time as certain other keys. This can be problematic if you actually want all those keys to register at the same time.

This can be a little hard to comprehend, so consider this example:

Imagine the keys Q, W and E are set up on the board so that if you press Q and W then E might is triggered due to ghosting. Now imagine to combat this, a block is in place so if you press Q and W, E prevented from registering. Now imagine you're playing a game e.g. League of Legends where you may need to use Q, W and E at the same time, but due to key blocking, you can't use all 3 keys. To fix this issue, many board manufacturers use a matrix optimised for gaming, this prevents common key combinations such as Q, W and E from having any troubles with ghosting or key blocking.

*Key Rollover (#KRO & NKRO)*
NKRO is the ideal rollover for a keyboard, no ghosting or key blocking issues and any number of key combinations can be used at the same time. This property is similar to what some peripherals manufacturers incorrectly market as "anti-ghosting", even though Logitech and Razer only apply it to the WASD cluster.

Note that despite the precise definition, there are two different versions of NKRO, true NKRO and simulated NKRO.

As a general rule, if you're looking for true NKRO, then PS/2 is the interface for you. Due to the ways PS/2 and USB handle input, USB is only really capable of simulated NKRO by implementing various tricks e.g. having the computer register it as multiple devices. While this can let you functionally have NKRO in most situations, in some scenarios such as on particular operating systems, you may run into issues.

For many cheaper keyboards use #KRO (where # = any integer), where you can press # keys before experiencing key blocking.

Many USB mechanical Keyboards are labelled as 6KRO, this is generally enough for most users. USB keyboards with 6KRO also allow for a maximum of 4 modifier keys to be used with those 6 normal keys. These modifiers include CTRL, ALT, Shift, & Super (Windows, Command, or Meta Key). Sometimes this also includes the FN key present on select keyboards.

As for what #KRO you'll need, realistically you will never need more than 10KRO (10 fingers and all that), however some people may prefer NKRO for completeness' sake.

*Key Bouncing*
All types of key switches, including rubber domes, can do this. When you press a key, the switch "bounces" on and off very quickly as it sets into place. This causes keys to register multiple times for each press. Because of this, keyboards need to implement some sort of debouncing delay, so that once you press a key, the controller waits a certain amount of time before registering a keypress. As an example, Cherry MX switches need 5ms of debouncing time, while rubber domes need longer (exactly how long depends on their quality).

*Polling Rates and Response Times*
While it is very useful for mice, it's just about meaningless for keyboards. Let's assume for a minute that all switches have the 5ms debouncing time of Cherry MX switches (which is being very generous). Even if you had super human speed and reflexes, every single key would be delayed by at least that much. So really, any polling rate over 200Hz (at best) is absolutely useless, and nothing but market hype. It may even be a bit detrimental, because you'd be wasting CPU time polling the keyboard unneededly. And unlike USB keyboards, PS/2 boards aren't polled at all. They simply send the signal to the PC whenever they are ready to, which causes a hardware interrupt, forcing the CPU to register that keystroke.

*Inputs*

*PS/2*

Advantages:


Supports full NKRO.
PS/2 keyboards aren't polled, but are completely interrupt based.
Impossible for it to be delayed by the USB bus being used by other devices.

Disadvantages:


PS/2 is not natively designed to be hot-swappable, in some situations unplugging and replugging a PS/2 device into the computer will render it unusable until the system is restarted. This is not always the case however, if the system drivers recognize the device then this will not be an issue.
PS/2 connectors aren't as durable as some more modern connectors, as such they can be damaged from repeated unplugging/ replugging and suffer from bent or broken pins.

*USB*

Advantages:


Easily hot-swappable due to the design of USB.
Much more popular interface in modern devices than PS/2

Disadvantages:


Not as compatible with NKRO
Sometimes has issues with BIOS or waking up from sleep


----------



## Manyak

*Common Switch Types*

*Introduction*

Whilst a difference in properties of a switch may seem trivial to some, to those who use computers extensively as part of a hobby or a career, finding a keyboard perfect for you can make those long hours of typing or gaming much more comfortable, and a big part of how the keyboard performs is the switches or technology it uses.

The question is often asked "which switch is the best for gaming/ typing/ programming etc", the answer is simple: *There isn't one.*

There is no switch perfect for a given task for everyone, only personal favourites and subjective recommendations.

Sometimes actuation forces is expressed in grams (g), however the gram is actually a measurement of mass, not force, we should really express the force in Newtons (N), but since we know:

1kg ~ 9.81N ~ 10N

=> 1g ~ 0.01N

We don't want to be using decimals all the time, so instead we use the approximation: 1g = 1 centinewton (cN), a centinewton being 0.01N.

As a reference point your average rubber dome keyboard requires between 55cN and 60cN of force to actuate.

*Common Switch Types*

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GOlfD1-WLaCtABPBLcAsxi8HftuOfaiPwEZQPdg_wfU/pubhtml 

This is not a comprehensive list, there are many other less common varieties of Cherry MX, Alps and Topre switches, aswell as rarer switch types not covered here.



> Below is a chart which shows relative popularity of each of the fairly common switch types.





> The data for this chart is collected from submissions of the membership form for the Mechanical Keyboard Club and updates automatically





>


*Switch Testers*

Looking for a way to try some of these switches before buying a board? Consider getting a switch sampler of some Cherry MX switches such as those from:



Spoiler: Qwerkeys QWER8 V2





*Link*

*Price: *£19.95

*Comes with:*


Cherry MX Red
Cherry MX Black
Cherry MX Brown
Cherry MX Blue
Cherry MX White
Cherry MX Green
Cherry MX Clear
Cherry MX Linear Grey/ Cherry MX Clicky Grey (depending on stock)
Mounting plate
8x Transparent keycaps

*Advantages:*


Looks good as a show piece.
Large selection of switches.

*Disadvantages:*


More expensive than some of the other samplers.
Lack of global availability.






Spoiler: Max Keyboard





*Link*

*Price:* $12

*Comes with:*


Cherry MX Red
Cherry MX Black
Cherry MX Brown
Cherry MX Blue
Mounting PCB board
4x Transparent keycaps
4x O-rings (black)

*Advantages:*


15% coupon off a Max Keyboard board as of Jan 2014.

*Disadvantages:*


Not as many switches as the Qwerkeys sampler.






Spoiler: Max Keyboard Pro





*Link*

*Price: *$20

*Comes with:*


Cherry MX Red
Cherry MX Black
Cherry MX Brown
Cherry MX Blue
Cherry MX Green
Cherry MX Clear
Cherry MX Tactile Grey
Cherry MX White
Red acrylic base
9x Transparent keycaps
8x O-rings (black)
4x Clear rubber feet

*Advantages:*


15% coupon off a Max Keyboard board as of July 2014.

*Disadvantages:*


Shipping costs may be high for non-US customers.






Spoiler: WASD Keyboard Switch Sampler





*Link*

*Price:* $12

*Comes with:*


Cherry MX Red
Cherry MX Black
Cherry MX Brown
Cherry MX Blue
Cherry MX Clear
Cherry MX Green
11x coloured keycaps (Black, White, Light Grey, Dark Grey, Red, Green, Light Blue, Yellow, Orange, Pink, Lilac)
5x O-rings (Red)
5x O-rings (Blue)

*Advantages:*


15% coupon off a Max Keyboard board as of Jan 2014.

*Disadvantages:*


No mounting plate or PCB.






Spoiler: Deck





*Link*

*Price:* $6

*Comes with:*


Cherry MX Red with green LED
Cherry MX Black with white LED
Cherry MX Brown with orange LED
Cherry MX Blue with blue LED
4x backlighting compatible keycaps (D, E, C, K)

*Advantages:*


LED backlit! (powered by USB)
Great value for the money

*Disadvantages:*


More switches would be good






Spoiler: Cooler Master





*Link: NA, EU*

*Price: *$12

*Comes with:*


Cherry MX Red
Cherry MX Black
Cherry MX Brown
Cherry MX Blue
Cherry MX Clear
Cherry MX Green
Mounting PCB board
6x Transparent keycaps
Outer casing

*Advantages:*


$15/ €13.95 coupon off a Cooler Master mechanical keyboard as of Jan 2014.

*Disadvantages:*


Would be nice to see an MX White aswell.






Spoiler: WASD 6-Key Cherry MX Switch Tester





*Link
Price: $15*

*Comes with:*


Cherry MX Red
Cherry MX Black
Cherry MX Brown
Cherry MX Blue
Cherry MX Clear
Cherry MX Green
Steel mounting bracket
6x Transparent keycaps
6x Red O-rings
6x Blue O-rings
*Advantages:*

Good selection of switches.
Two different kinds of O-rings.


*Disadvantages:*


Would be nice to see an MX White aswell.


----------



## Manyak

*Keycap Plastic and Shape*

*Plastics*



> The two most common keycap plastics are ABS and PBT. Each has their own price to performance ratio; though in a general sense, PBT keycaps are generally a better buy. Here's some of the reasons why:





Spoiler: PBT



Advantages:


Heat resistant up to 150*C (although they are sensitive to hot water above 60*C).
Resistant to solvents.
Mechanically strong.
Does not shine as fast.

Disadvantages:


More expensive than ABS.

More information.





Spoiler: ABS



Advantages:


Low cost.
Lightweight.

Disadvantages:


Solvents will "melt" the keys.
Keys develop shine faster.

More information.



*Keycap shine*

Over time, the oils in your fingertips will wear away at the surface of your keycaps and turn the slightly textured surface smooth. The keycaps develop a shine under lighting as seen below, some people use this as a guide to know when to get new keycaps.



Spoiler: A new keycap (left) and a "shiny" keycap (right).







*Keytop Shapes*

Cylindrical: Almost all keyboards today use this shape. This is often referred to as sculpted design. The shape is meant to cradle the finger tip.



Spoiler: Example.















Flat: Frequently found on laptops and "laptop style" keyboards. These are also found on Point Of Sale (POS) keyboards because of the replaceable legends.



Spoiler: Example.















Spherical: This shape is normally found on vintage keyboards and type writers.



Spoiler: Example.


----------



## Manyak

*Keycap Printing Methods

Pad Printing*
This is the type of printing you'll find on 99% of keyboards. It is the cheapest method possible, short of leaving the keys blank. Pad Printed letters are kind of like stickers, or decals, and you can feel the letter raised above the key surface.

Example: (Microsoft Ergo Keyboard)










Advantages:


Low Cost
Easy to use multiple colours
Any face of the key can be pad printed

Disadvantages:


You can feel the lettering
Wears out quickly

*Laser Etching and Laser Engraving*
Laser etched keycaps are produced by using lasers to mark a design into the surface of the keycap. The process traditionally worked best on light colored keys because light keycap colour contrasts with the dark colour of the burnt plastic, and darker coloured keycaps usually had coloured infill to provide better contrast in the etching. However, recent developments in laser etching has meant that darker keycaps can now have lighter coloured etching without the need for any infill.

Laser engraving is similar to etching, but deep grooves are cut into the plastic. This type of keycap is preferred by many enthusiasts as it allows you to see the character on the keycap if you want to, but without the high-contrast look of other types of printing, giving the board most of the sleek look of blank keycaps, but without the impracticality if you can't find a character.

Example: (Dell AT101W)










Advantages:


Doesn't wear out easily
Not as expensive as some competing printing methods

Disadvantages:


You can feel the lettering
Edge of the character not particularly crisp, slightly blurrier than some comparable printing techniques.

*Dye Sublimation*
Dye Sublimation produces much nicer keys than either of the other two printing methods. A dye is set into the plastic, and seeps a tiny bit into it. As such, even as the plastic is worn down from use, the character is still clear.

Example:










Advantages:


Doesn't wear out
Can't feel the lettering
Can print multiple colors on a single key
Can be used on any face of the key
High Visibility

Disadvantages:


High cost compared to some other printing choices
Can only print letters that are darker than the plastic (no white lettering on black plastic, for example)

*Double-Shot Injection Molding*
With this method, the keycap actually consists of two pieces. The first piece is the outside of the keycap with the letter basically cut out of it, and the second piece is placed inside it with the lettering embossed to fit into the top piece. You can see it in this diagram:








This method of printing results in the highest quality keycaps possible. The edges of the letters are perfectly sharp, and it achieves the highest contrast, clearest lettering possible. Unfortunately, because of the very high price, they are relatively uncommon as stock keycaps, meaning you may only be able to source them direct from custom keycap companies or via group buys elsewhere. It's easy to check if a keycap is double-shot or not, just look underneath and you'll be able to see two distinct piece of plastic if it's double-shot

Example: Old OCN Keycap










Advantages:


Doesn't wear out, ever
Perfect edges
Highest contrast and visibility

Disadvantages:


Very high cost compared to other printing types
Limited to two colours per key
On worn keys you can sometimes feel the edge where the plastics meet


----------



## Manyak

*Frequently Asked Questions*

Before you post in the Keyboards section, take a look in the *Frequently Asked Questions thread* to see if it has already been answered.

*Recommended Mechanical Keyboards*

For a list of boards recommended by users of OCN, please see *this thread*.


----------



## Manyak

*Keycap Layouts*

Keycap sets come in a variety of layouts, it's important to know what keycap layout your board has so you can buy the appropriate set of keycaps.

There are two main ways in which a keyboard layout can vary which will affect which keycap sets you can use, these are the location specific layout and the manufacturer/ date layout.



Spoiler: Location Specific Layouts



This covers differences in the layout of boards such as the size of the enter and shift keys. The two most well-known location specific layouts are ANSI and ISO.

ANSI:


Popular in the US and some areas in Europe
Larger Left Shift than ISO
Smaller Enter than ISO

ISO:


Popular in most European countries
Small Left Shift
Large Enter key

Aswell as these two, there are country specific layouts which may take elements from ANSI and ISO e.g. the Japanese keyboard layout which has the large Enter key of ISO and the large Left Shift from ANSI.

There are also language variants for the layouts, will keep the same key layout, but use different characters. Some examples are QWERTZ and AZERTY which are used in Germany and France respectively (among other places).



This covers differences in layouts due to manufacturers adapting the more traditional layouts.

First note that in terms of keycap sizes, we use the alphanumeric keys as a reference point and say they have a size of 1x.

The most popular layout currently is where all of the modifier keys on the bottom row have the same size of 1.25x and the spacebar is 6.25x. If you are planning on replacing your keycaps, it's a good idea to buy a board with this bottom row layout, you will find it much easier to find aftermarket keycap sets in this layout.

*Where To Buy Keycaps*

The following are places to buy either single novelty keycaps or keycap sets:


capcrafter
EliteKeyboards
geek_feng
Imsto
KeyPop
Massdrop (occasionally)
Max Keyboard
Mechanicalkeyboards.com
Originative
pexonpcs
PimpMyKeyboard
Qwerkeys
Signature Plastics/ Keycaps Direct
taobao
techkeys
Vendio
WASDKeyboard

Ducky also offer ABS and PBT sets from various stores globally.


----------



## Manyak

*Maintenance and Removing Keycaps*

Every once in a while you may want to clean your keyboard. There are many ways of doing this, and can take anywhere from a few minutes to several hours depending on how much dirt you're trying to get out of it and exactly what needs to be cleaned. If you've just spilled a can of Pepsi on your board and don't know what to do, you've come to the right place.

A good PC tool for keyboard and general PC cleaning is the DataVac as it can replace canned air and compressors.

Before you try to clean the board, we suggest removing the keycaps. The safe and reliable way to do this is to invest in a wire keycap puller, they are much easier to use on various keycap sizes than the plastic ring pullers and *a lot *less likely to damage a switch than using a screwdriver or coin.

First, remove the small keycaps such as the alphanumeric ones. To do this simply grab two diagonal corners of the keycap with the wire keycap puller and pull directly up whilst holding the board down.

Then, to remove larger keycaps with Cherry stabilisers, use the same technique as with the smaller keycaps.

To remove larger keycaps with Costar stabilisers (wire stabilisers hooking onto the keycap), hook the keycap puller under one side, then *very carefully *lift straight up, the keycap should now be free to wobble about (if not repeat the process on the other side). Once the keycap is free to wobble around, push it to one side and try to lift one side of the keycap off the metal hook as seen below.

*Quick Cleaning*
Keyboards can get dirty pretty quickly. I mean, let's be honest here; it's not like most of us actually wash our hands every single time we're about to sit down at the PC. And on top of that there's always dust and hair that can fall in-between the keys. So it's always good to give your board a quick cleaning every week or two.


Use canned air (or an air compressor if you don't care for convenience) to blow off any loose dust or dirt.
Wipe the keytops and casing down with a clean cloth, dampened with isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol. Pay extra attention to any keys that you might be using the most frequently, such as WASD. Note: On Filcos, use water instead of Alcohol. Filcos have a special coating on them that gets ruined if you use it.
If you're a heavy smoker and the casing seems to be yellowing, wipe it down with Windex.

Doing these things on a regular basis will keep your board looking great.

*Deep Cleaning*
If you've just gotten a used keyboard off of ebay that looks like it was used at a mechanic shop, or just spilled your drink right into it, your board needs a deep cleaning. If you do ever spill anything into it, make sure you clean it *immediately*. The longer you wait, the worse the cleanup is going to be - and may end up being next to impossible.


Take the keycaps off of the switches.
Open up the casing and take the PCB/membranes out. Each keyboard is different, but normally there's a combination of both screws underneath the board and tabs on the sides holding the top and bottom pieces together.
If you don't have a dishwasher or prefer not to use it, put both the keycaps and casing in a bath of warm water and dish soap, and let them soak for at least a good 30 minutes.
The process for cleaning off the circuitry varies depending on what sort of switches you have:
Cherry, Alps, and other similar switches: Place the entire PCB+switch assembly into a container of distilled water. Shake the board around vigorously so that the water can clean out the inside of the switches as well. To dry it out, shake it until you no longer hear any water stuck inside the switches. Then set it either on it's side or upside down to dry. Using a blow dryer to dry it is safe as long as you don't stick to one spot for too long, and canned air can help get the water out of the switches very quickly.
Membrane boards, including rubber domes and Buckling Springs: Separate the layers of membranes, and wipe them down with a damp cloth (distilled water only), and then again with a dry cloth. If the layers are fastened together, dip them into distilled water and flex and shake them around until they are as clean as they can get, then flap them around to get the water out. You may also be able to slip a cloth or paper towel in between them to dry them, but remember to check for any lint that gets stuck. Rubber domes should only be rinsed using distilled water at or close to room temperature (give or take a few degrees) - anything too hot or too cold can permanently alter their feel. The springs, hammers, steel plate, and plastic cover of Buckling Springs shouldn't need more than a quick rinse or wipe-down, but you can always use soap or isopropyl alcohol on them if they need it.
Rubber Dome on PCB, such as Topre: Rinse the domes in distilled water at or close to room temperature, rubbing with your fingers if anything is stuck badly to them. If it's a Topre capacitive board, the springs can be cleaned the same way or with a light concentration of dish soap or isopropyl alcohol. Wipe the PCB down with a cloth dampened with distilled water.

Whatever sort of internals your keyboard has, put them aside to dry at least overnight. If there were any ICs or other surface-mount electrical components that you had to get wet, a good way to speed up the process significantly is to use canned air to blow the water out from under them.
By the time you're done with the internals, the casing and keycaps should be ready. When taking them out of the dishwasher or soap bath, take them out and dry them with a towel one by one. If there is still any amount of dirt on them, rub them down with isopropyl alcohol and/or Windex. Isopropyl normally works better, but Windex gets certain things out without any effort that the dish soap may not have caught in a still bath, such as cigarette smoke residue.
Once you're absolutely positive that everything's dry, put it all back together.


----------



## Manyak

*Miscellaneous Resources*

*Keyboard Customization Guides*
Dye Your Old White/Grey Keyboard

*Switch Technologies*
Qwerter's Clinic Cherry MX Info
NKRO on Microsoft Sidewinder x4 - Resistance method
All About Scissor Switches

*Programming*
SharpKeys - Basic Keyboard Programming
Autohotkey - Advanced Keyboard Programming

*Interfaces and Protocols*
Interfacing the AT and PS/2 Keyboards
PS/2 Keyboard Interface
PS/2 Keyboard Protocol
XT Scancodes
AT, PS/2, and USB Scancodes
USB in a Nutshell

*Switch Matrix and Actuation Design*



Spoiler: Diagrams and explanation



Keyboards use a matrix of wires, in rows and columns. Each key is a switch that connects a row to a column, where each key has it's own unique position, or address, in the matrix.

This is a very simple 4-key matrix. You won't ever see something this simple in a keyboard, but for our purposes it's more than enough.










To detect keypresses, the keyboard will scan column by column and check to see which rows have been activated. In the image below, when the keyboard activates C1, R1 goes hot and therefore it knows that A has been pressed. When it activates C2, neither R1 nor R2 go hot so it knows that B and D haven't been pressed.










Multiple key presses work in the same way. In this image you can see that when C1 is activated, R1 goes hot, giving the letter A. Then when C2 is activated, R2 goes hot, giving the letter D.










But the problem in this matrix shows up as soon as you press three keys at once. In this image A, B, and D are pressed. The B and D switches short R1 with R2 because they are both closed; so when C1 is activated, both R1 and R2 go hot and the keyboard thinks that C has been pressed, and sends it to the PC even though you didn't really press it. This is what's called a "ghost" key.










There are two methods used to prevent ghosting. The first and cheaper option is for the controller to block that third keypress that causes the ghost key. So after pressing A and D, it ignores both B and C because pressing either one will cause the other to ghost. This gives this board 2-key rollover, because only 2 keys can be pressed at once.

The other option is to install a switching diode in series with each switch. The diodes only allow the current to flow in one direction, so the rows no longer get shorted to each other. In the image below you'll see the A, B, and D keys pressed again, but this time there are diodes to control the flow. Notice how R2 no longer goes hot when C1 is activated.










This method allows for each and every key on the board to be detected independently, giving it n-key rollover (NKRO). It's called n-key because n is a variable, representing the number of keys on the keyboard.


----------



## Manyak

*Credits and Thanks*

Original Guide Created by Manyak.

Frequent Updates done by Paradigm84.

Alps Section & Input on Buckling Springs thanks to ch_123.

Animated Pictures of Cherry MX Switches in action are thanks to Lethal Squirrel on Geekhack.

Animated Picture of the Buckling Spring Switch thanks to Qwerter's Clinic.

Pictures of Keycaps thanks to Ripster.


----------



## thecool85

Do any of you know if wireless mechanical keyboards are in production and where I could get one if they are?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thecool85* 
Do any of you know if wireless mechanical keyboards are in production and where I could get one if they are?

Filco makes two bluetooth models - one with Cherry Browns, one with Blacks.

http://www.diatec.co.jp/en/list.php?...1&subcate_sq=5


----------



## Manyak

Well I just found out that there is a brand new distributor for Filco keyboards here in the states, as of less than a month ago. Currently he only carries the models with browns and blacks, with or without n-key rollover, but he is looking for anyone with interest in a model with Cherry blues, which Filco doesn't even offer but would custom make for him if there's enough people who want them.

The website is:
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/


----------



## thecool85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Filco makes two bluetooth models - one with Cherry Browns, one with Blacks.

http://www.diatec.co.jp/en/list.php?...1&subcate_sq=5

Thanks, I'll check it out.


----------



## laurie

He is a good guy! I got some purple key caps from him









Oh and model Ms are great!.
Here are some pics


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## Manyak

hey laurie, you have any idea where to get one of those plastic covers for the model m? Not the silicone ones unicomp makes, but the original one.


----------



## laurie

I don't think they make one to fit the model M I could be wrong.
There is one that fits over a filco. But it sits over the whole thing.
My one in the pic there on the Realforce was from Korea. Made by Bird electronics.
I might make some myself if I ever get round to it!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laurie* 
I don't think they make one to fit the model M I could be wrong.
There is one that fits over a filco. But it sits over the whole thing.
My one in the pic there on the Realforce was from Korea. Made by Bird electronics.
I might make some myself if I ever get round to it!

Oh no I don't mean a cover like that (though I can make some for you out of acrylic if you want by the way, I'd just need the dimensions).

I mean like this, its the original one that used to ship with the keyboards back in the day:


----------



## laurie

Oh I see. No I dont know where to get them.
You make stuff with acrylic too! Cool.
I do like the one on my realforce. You cant tell from the picture I took I dont think but it is actually made from 3 pieces of acrylic. They are mitred and glued. Its open ended which is odd I think.
I would not be able to do the mitre but I would bevel the edges. Might give it a go.
May I ask what you do with acrylic


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## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laurie* 
Oh I see. No I dont know where to get them.
You make stuff with acrylic too! Cool.
I do like the one on my realforce. You cant tell from the picture I took I dont think but it is actually made from 3 pieces of acrylic. They are mitred and glued. Its open ended which is odd I think.
I would not be able to do the mitre but I would bevel the edges. Might give it a go.
May I ask what you do with acrylic









Click on project wraith in my sig









I never finished it though, I went on a long vacation then moved as soon as I got back.

And once I get my new rig a few months from now I'll be making a cool looking res for it.


----------



## laurie

That was looking good! A shame you had to stop but I know how it is







.
What would you want for a couple?
Looks like you have the tools and skills for the job. I tend to make work for myself by doing everything by hand. Tools cost too much


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laurie* 
That was looking good! A shame you had to stop but I know how it is







.
What would you want for a couple?
Looks like you have the tools and skills for the job. I tend to make work for myself by doing everything by hand. Tools cost too much









All I have is a table saw and scroll saw! Then again, that pretty much covers 95% of it, heh







. Been planning on getting a buffing wheel too though, sanding is a real PAIN.

And I dunno, not much I guess, they are pretty simple pieces. I'll send you a PM.


----------



## timw4mail

Laurie, where did you get those blank keycaps for that M2? Do you know of anywhere to find some for Model Ms?


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

This is interesting. I've always thought keyboards like the G15 such were the bomb, but I guess this has changed my mind about gaming keyboards.

Thanks for posting this.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
This is interesting. I've always thought keyboards like the G15 such were the bomb, but I guess this has changed my mind about gaming keyboards.

Thanks for posting this.

Glad it was useful









I've been meaning to update the list of keyboards with a couple more, I think I'll do that now.


----------



## Sparhawk

Anyone know what the Logitech Illuminated Keyboard uses for switches?
I have one... and I love it.
Perfect key recognition even at high speeds and it is actually good looking too


----------



## laurie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
Laurie, where did you get those blank keycaps for that M2? Do you know of anywhere to find some for Model Ms?

Hey.
I don't know what you mean by m2 sorry








I know you can get blank caps and whole keys from Unicomp in black or white.
The blacks are one piece and the white ones are two piece.
Its where I got mine from.

Laurie.

Oh and at a guess on the logitech illuminated I would say a high quality scissor switch. These are the same as on most laptops. The scissor is just a mechanism to help the key stay level and the actuator is still a rubber dome over a pcb or membrane.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sparhawk* 
Anyone know what the Logitech Illuminated Keyboard uses for switches?
I have one... and I love it.
Perfect key recognition even at high speeds and it is actually good looking too









Scissor switches w/rubber domes, like laptops. They're tons better than regular keyboards, that's for sure









Hey as long as you like the feel of it that's great. But whenever you're due for a new keyboard at least try out a tactile mechanical first. I bet it won't be that long from now either, Logitech's scissor switches only last a few months before becoming stiff. Happened with me with both an UltraX and diNovo edge.

By the way, any idea if Unicomp makes _clear_ keytops as well?


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Hey, I'm looking at the Optimus Maximus keyboard. What's your insight on it Manyak?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
Hey, I'm looking at the Optimus Maximus keyboard. What's your insight on it Manyak?

It uses Cherry MLs...short travel, nice feedback.

But do you really want to pay $1500 for it?


----------



## Manyak

I found someone on ebay selling a bunch of Compaq MX11800s (Cherry Browns) brand new. If you wanna try out this switches without paying a ton for a Filco or whatever, here's your chance









Even if you don't care for the switches this is a good board to keep as a spare (especially if you have a headless server in the house) because of the built in trackball.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...%3DI%26otn%3D2


----------



## laurie

Balls. He wont ship to the UK. I don't have any browns any more


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laurie* 
Balls. He wont ship to the UK. I don't have any browns any more


----------



## Manyak

More keyboards added


----------



## Zeper

What keys do the Razer Tarantula have i have that one atm? I just won a SteelSeries 7G is that keyboard good?


----------



## laurie

The Tarantular uses some of the worst rubber domes I have ever used. They are thin and feel mushy and horrible.
It uses cheaper parts than a $20 logitech.
The stealseries 7G on the other hand uses Cherry black mechanical linear switches.
They are one of the best options for gaming and its a fantastic board! I love that you can use it with or without the oversized palm rest.
You should enjoy it very much.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zeper* 
What keys do the Razer Tarantula have i have that one atm? I just won a SteelSeries 7G is that keyboard good?

It uses rubber domes, just like regular cheap keyboards.

The SteelSeries 7G uses Cherry MX Black switches, which are linear (no tactile bump, no click except if you bottom out). Some people really like these switches for typing (who knows, you might be one of them). But even if you don't, IMO they are still the best for a pure gaming keyboard. I've found that I can jump around keys a bit faster with them than any other switch, and I get almost no accidental double-key presses if my finger lands in between keys when I have to move away from the WSAD cluster (which I used to pretty often).

YMMV because everyone's got different tastes, but I'd say that yes its a great board for gaming, and I'd be willing to bet that it won't even take you 1 full minute of use to ditch the Tarantula for good


----------



## xHassassin

I'm interested.








What is tactile feedback like? Is it like a false bottom for the keys? And if you push harder they bottom out? Do you need to overcome the resistance for the keystroke to register or something?
I'm wondering what would be a nice cheap keyboard that I could get to see if these are right for me. What would you recommend? I don't have paypal so I can't get the compaq you posted.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xHassassin* 
I'm interested.








What is tactile feedback like? Is it like a false bottom for the keys? And if you push harder they bottom out? Do you need to overcome the resistance for the keystroke to register or something?
I'm wondering what would be a nice cheap keyboard that I could get to see if these are right for me. What would you recommend? I don't have paypal so I can't get the compaq you posted.

Tactile feedback is basically a sudden change in the force of the key. Some switches do it like you are describing, while others just suddenly give way. For example, buckling springs will increase their resistance gradually until the actuation point, and then the spring buckles to the side which suddenly drops the resistance almost completely until you bottom out.

But without using ebay it's pretty much impossible to get a cheap mechanical keyboard, you're looking at around $60+ for anything brand new. Maybe I can help you though....


----------



## laurie

There are switches that have a very slight tactile feedback. The brown cherry switches for example only have a very slight bump on the way down. The idea being that you develop the muscle memory to not bottom out the key after the little bump.
It helps you type faster and is better for the fingers.
Like manyak says it can be hard to find a cheap new mechanical board.
The switches in a lot of them cost around $1 each. So it soon adds up with all the keys








I wish you luck finding one though. It might be an idea to try boot sales and charity shops. You can get lucky and find Model Ms. Not so much in the UK though as there are laws about selling used electrical equipment sigh.

The big special needs kid is hypnotic. I find my self transfixed for hours at a time.


----------



## timw4mail

I just got my Scorpious M10.
It does have great feedback, although its a lot lighter keystroke than on the Model M. Its just about as noisy, just doesn't have the metalic ring that the M does. I just hope I don't bother the other person in my office at work...

I actually do like the lighter keystroke than the Model M, so I think this is also a great mechanical switch keyboard.


----------



## Ch13f121

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
I just got my Scorpious M10.
It does have great feedback, although its a lot lighter keystroke than on the Model M. Its just about as noisy, just doesn't have the metalic ring that the M does. I just hope I don't bother the other person in my office at work...

I actually do like the lighter keystroke than the Model M, so I think this is also a great mechanical switch keyboard.

I have one of these laying around, and half the board died on me one day so I got pissed and bought a DeCK.

It's funny whenever I tell someone how much I spent on my keyboard....they look at me like I'm stupid.

Seems like a lot of mechanical keyboard fans have came out of the woodwork lately







it's good seeing people invest in proper keyboards.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ch13f121* 
I have one of these laying around, and half the board died on me one day so I got pissed and bought a DeCK.

It's funny whenever I tell someone how much I spent on my keyboard....they look at me like I'm stupid.

Seems like a lot of mechanical keyboard fans have came out of the woodwork lately







it's good seeing people invest in proper keyboards.

Yes it is









It's also good to see some bigger companies use mechanical switches in 'gaming' keyboards like Steelseries and ABS, because more and more people are being introduced to them.


----------



## Ch13f121

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Yes it is









It's also good to see some bigger companies use mechanical switches in 'gaming' keyboards like Steelseries and ABS, because more and more people are being introduced to them.

What switches do these Decks use? I know they're Cherry switches, but I don't know which ones...they don't have the 'pop' that a typical keyboard like my Scorpius had.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ch13f121* 
What switches do these Decks use? I know they're Cherry switches, but I don't know which ones...they don't have the 'pop' that a typical keyboard like my Scorpius had.

Cherry MX Blacks


----------



## Subayai

I type at around 70 to 100 wpm depending on the keyboard, what kind is best for someone like me?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Subayai* 
I type at around 70 to 100 wpm depending on the keyboard, what kind is best for someone like me?

It really depends. Do you type real softly or pound the keys?

If you like to use a lot of force when typing then I'd say go with Buckling Springs (IBM Model M) or Black Alps (ABS M1). Otherwise get Topre Capacitive (Realforce or HHKB Pro 2) or Cherry Browns (Filco Majestouch). Or if you aren't sure, get Cherry Blues (Scorpius M10) - their resistance is somewhere in the middle of the pack, and are a lot of people's favorite anyway.


----------



## Subayai

I type rather hard because of my speed actually, and the fact I only use three fingers per hand when I type means my fingers are prolly hitting the keys at a higher velocity then most. Also, I rather like the ABS M1 as well, thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Subayai* 
I type rather hard because of my speed actually, and the fact I only use three fingers per hand when I type means my fingers are prolly hitting the keys at a higher velocity then most. Also, I rather like the ABS M1 as well, thanks for the suggestion.

Anytime


----------



## el gappo

i have an old emachines keyboard that ive had for about 10 years with a mahusive space bar and a nice clunk it has the rubber domes but ive never typed on a better one, but then again im not a trained typest. i remember in school and college acctually we had tha keyboard 5th picture down on a few machines, always ran to get to them lol. what keyboard has the most resistance do you know? its for my mum who trained on a proper type writer and hates all keyboards


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *el gappo* 
i have an old emachines keyboard that ive had for about 10 years with a mahusive space bar and a nice clunk it has the rubber domes but ive never typed on a better one, but then again im not a trained typest. i remember in school and college acctually we had tha keyboard 5th picture down on a few machines, always ran to get to them lol. what keyboard has the most resistance do you know? its for my mum who trained on a proper type writer and hates all keyboards

Model M, not that the resistance is going to be anything like an actual typewriter, but its about the closest there is.


----------



## el gappo

is there no keyboard like a type writer? (the ones that nearly snap your little figers lol) i really would like one, birthday prezzie


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *el gappo* 
is there no keyboard like a type writer? (the ones that nearly snap your little figers lol) i really would like one, birthday prezzie

Get her a model M for sure. It's not _as_ resistive as a typewriter, but it was designed to feel as close to one of IBM's old typewriters as they could manage (the Selectric). The keys do travel quite far down comparably, and it has a nice springy feel to it as well. Its pretty loud too


----------



## el gappo

thanks for the help +rep you guys will like this, gigabyte new mechanical gaming keyboard http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/...ProductID=2789


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Get her a model M for sure. It's not _as_ resistive as a typewriter, but it was designed to feel as close to one of IBM's old typewriters as they could manage (the Selectric). The keys do travel quite far down comparably, and it has a nice springy feel to it as well. Its pretty loud too









That's pretty much what I meant.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *el gappo* 
thanks for the help +rep you guys will like this, gigabyte new mechanical gaming keyboard http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/...ProductID=2789

That's a step in the right direction, too bad Logitech is still all membrane...


----------



## laurie

I just got myself a Model F origonal AT IBM keyboard!
Born on 05/06/85 It has never done a days work so is like new.
The sound and feel of the keys is like a Model M but lighter and snappier!
I love it.
It has the buckling spring mechanism but unlike the Model M boards that have the hammer hit a membrane this board uses capacitive switching like a Happy hacker! Or realforce.
Now it may not look as snazzy but I paid Â£11 for this compared to the Â£200+ each I paid for the HH and realforce.
If anyone can find one I would strongly recommend it!


----------



## KipH

Have not seen mention of gigabyte GK-K8000 Good or not?

What I want is a quiet and good gamer. I liked the lighting on the G15 and it even feels ok to me. But the lights broke (should have got the 1st model). Oh and cheep too


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laurie* 
I just got myself a Model F origonal AT IBM keyboard!
Born on 05/06/85 It has never done a days work so is like new.
The sound and feel of the keys is like a Model M but lighter and snappier!
I love it.
It has the buckling spring mechanism but unlike the Model M boards that have the hammer hit a membrane this board uses capacitive switching like a Happy hacker! Or realforce.
Now it may not look as snazzy but I paid Â£11 for this compared to the Â£200+ each I paid for the HH and realforce.
If anyone can find one I would strongly recommend it!

I did notice that my Model M doesn't feel nearly as snappy as my M10. So the original AT keyboards before the Model M's were even better?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laurie* 
I just got myself a Model F origonal AT IBM keyboard!
Born on 05/06/85 It has never done a days work so is like new.
The sound and feel of the keys is like a Model M but lighter and snappier!
I love it.
It has the buckling spring mechanism but unlike the Model M boards that have the hammer hit a membrane this board uses capacitive switching like a Happy hacker! Or realforce.
Now it may not look as snazzy but I paid Â£11 for this compared to the Â£200+ each I paid for the HH and realforce.
If anyone can find one I would strongly recommend it!

Nice









Though honestly I don't get why everyone says the model M needs a lot of force to press the keys, the two I've got are extremely light. Then again, I _did_ get both of them unused, so that could be why.

Though how did you connect an XT keyboard to your PC? Did you get a signal converter from somewhere?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
Have not seen mention of gigabyte GK-K8000 Good or not?

What I want is a quiet and good gamer. I liked the lighting on the G15 and it even feels ok to me. But the lights broke (should have got the 1st model). Oh and cheep too









Go with anything with either Cherry MX Blacks if its _just_ for gaming, or with Cherry MX Browns if you will type on it as well.

The two best Cherry Black keyboards are the Steelseries 7G and DeCK Legend.

The best Cherry Brown keyboard is the Filco Majestouch w/ n-key rollover.

All of them cost over $100, but will last you for _years_ as long as you don't smash them with a hammer or something.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Nice









Though honestly I don't get why everyone says the model M needs a lot of force to press the keys, the two I've got are extremely light. Then again, I _did_ get both of them unused, so that could be why.

Though how did you connect an XT keyboard to your PC? Did you get a signal converter from somewhere?

Go with anything with either Cherry MX Blacks if its _just_ for gaming, or with Cherry MX Browns if you will type on it as well.

The two best Cherry Black keyboards are the Steelseries 7G and DeCK Legend.

The best Cherry Brown keyboard is the Filco Majestouch w/ n-key rollover.

All of them cost over $100, but will last you for _years_ as long as you don't smash them with a hammer or something.

I'll throw in a vote for the blue Cherry Switch Scorpius M10. For general typing, and for playing games too, I suppose, its got an excellent feel.


----------



## Kamikaze127

So I don't get it, what makes the mechanical ones better besides the fact that they are loud and... clunky?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kamikaze127* 
So I don't get it, what makes the mechanical ones better besides the fact that they are loud and... clunky?

Well they aren't _all_ clunky, just the Model M









The main reason is that they provide tactile feedback that rubber domes don't - you actually feel when the switch hits, instead of not knowing until noticing that a letter didn't appear on the screen.

They feel a lot more crisp as well. Like, you know how scissor switches (laptop style) boards aren't as mushy as regular keyboards? Mechanical switches take it one step further.

You also don't have to press the keys all the way down while you're typing, and they don't require as much force to press either. This results in less fatigue, and once you get fully accustomed to it, faster typing as well.

Linear switches also give you a good advantage with games because they don't have a tactile bump. Because of this, plus the fact that they actuate before you reach the bottom, you get slightly faster reaction times. Kind of like the difference between a laser mouse and a ball mouse. They suck to actually type on though, heh.

Then there's the weight of the keyboard. Most of them are pretty heavy, which means that they won't slide around on your desk while you're typing.

And the durability. As long as you don't spill anything on it, smash it with a hammer, or try to kill someone with it, a mechanical keyboard can last over 20 years easily.

Not all of them are loud and clunky either. The new ones are no bigger than a regular keyboard (see the ABS M1 or Steelseries 7G on newegg), and you can always stick to Cherry MX Brown or Black switches if you care about the noise. And there are plenty of keyboards that are tenkeyless (no number pad), which take up even less space.


----------



## idgarad

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Well they aren't _all_ clunky, just the Model M








...
And the durability. As long as you don't spill anything on it, smash it with a hammer, or try to kill someone with it, a mechanical keyboard can last over 20 years easily.

...

Actually those older keyboards were damn near indestructible.

2 litres of cola, a chilletto (now called Chili Cheese Burritos), = dead keyboard BUT let it dry out for about a week. Hose it down with soapy water, then hose it clean. Rinse with 50/50 ratio of 90% pure rubbing alcohol (you can use 70% too if needed) and water. (Which btw is also a great home brew LCD cleaner with a soft cloth [I use felt from the fabric store)

RISE FROM THE DEAD KEYBOARD!!


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *idgarad* 
Actually those older keyboards were damn near indestructible.

2 litres of cola, a chilletto (now called Chili Cheese Burritos), = dead keyboard BUT let it dry out for about a week. Hose it down with soapy water, then hose it clean. Rinse with 50/50 ratio of 90% pure rubbing alcohol (you can use 70% too if needed) and water. (Which btw is also a great home brew LCD cleaner with a soft cloth [I use felt from the fabric store)

RISE FROM THE DEAD KEYBOARD!!

Yeah, this Model M is a tank. Not only does it weigh about 5 pounds, its a very solid 5 pounds.


----------



## Acreo Aeneas

I never liked how I had to apply more force to each key when it came to mechanical keyboards. So when I went from those to this plastic domes, I like the less pressure needed to type. I don't really follow the norm of preferring a mechanical keyboard. Instead I want a laptop keyboard feel, but with a longer depression.

I've typed on a few buckling spring keyboards, the now common plastic dome ones, and a few actual chiclet keyboards (not to be confused with the chiclet-style keyboard) - really don't like it.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Acreo Aeneas* 
I never liked how I had to apply more force to each key when it came to mechanical keyboards. So when I went from those to this plastic domes, I like the less pressure needed to type. I don't really follow the norm of preferring a mechanical keyboard. Instead I want a laptop keyboard feel, but with a longer depression.

I've typed on a few buckling spring keyboards, the now common plastic dome ones, and a few actual chiclet keyboards (not to be confused with the chiclet-style keyboard) - really don't like it.

Not all mechanical keyboards actually require more force. The Scorpius M10, for example, has a very light keystroke that caught me off guard at first, being used to the heavier-action Model M. Each kind of mechanical switch is different in feel, and the amount of force required to actuate.


----------



## Manyak

^^ What he said.

I suggest you get an MX11800 from ebay to try out. They shouldn't run more than $30, even brand new. It uses cherry MX brown switches, which require very little force to type on. My laptop keyboard actually requires more force than it does.

And if you want really, really light typing, try a Topre Realforce 87U. The letter keys all need only 35cn of force to actuate. Compare that to the 80cn required for buckling springs







. Its pretty expensive though, and will run around $350....so its really not worth it just to 'try out'.

Edit: Here you go, an MX 11800 for $25+shipping.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
^^ What he said.

I suggest you get an MX11800 from ebay to try out. They shouldn't run more than $30, even brand new. It uses cherry MX brown switches, which require very little force to type on. My laptop keyboard actually requires more force than it does.

And if you want really, really light typing, try a Topre Realforce 87U. The letter keys all need only 35cn of force to actuate. Compare that to the 80cn required for buckling springs







. Its pretty expensive though, and will run around $350....so its really not worth it just to 'try out'.

Edit: Here you go, an MX 11800 for $25+shipping.

If I had known about those, I probably wouldn't have spend twice as much on the M10







The brown switches don't click, correct?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
If I had known about those, I probably wouldn't have spend twice as much on the M10







The brown switches don't click, correct?

Correct, tactile only, and the bump isn't as pronounced as it is on the blues.


----------



## hitman1985

now i got to be the boo man i guess, the g15 i got (old version) i prefer over any other keyboard because of the simple fact that i can see all my temps on the little lcd, i can also see all the folks in teamspeak or ventrillo channel, i dont care if a keyboard looks plain or not, this is the function i bought this keyboard for, the simple fact that its a long lasting and very funtional keyboard, it cost me about 70 bucks last year, so i dont think its a waste if you need those functions. so the 70bucks saved me minimizing the game.

the point of those keyboards (mechanical) is more the daily typing not gaming in my opinion, but everyone has their preferrence.

Greetz
hitman1985


----------



## Enigma8750

Here is a 1599.00 Keyboard. No Joke.










http://www.frozencpu.com/products/59...html?tl=g12c43


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hitman1985* 
now i got to be the boo man i guess, the g15 i got (old version) i prefer over any other keyboard because of the simple fact that i can see all my temps on the little lcd, i can also see all the folks in teamspeak or ventrillo channel, i dont care if a keyboard looks plain or not, this is the function i bought this keyboard for, the simple fact that its a long lasting and very funtional keyboard, it cost me about 70 bucks last year, so i dont think its a waste if you need those functions. so the 70bucks saved me minimizing the game.

the point of those keyboards (mechanical) is more the daily typing not gaming in my opinion, but everyone has their preferrence.

Greetz
hitman1985

Hey that's great for you then







. I'd actually like to have a little gadget on my desk with just that LCD and a few buttons myself.

Hrm....maybe whenever my girlfriend switches keyboards I'll harvest the LCD and circuitry out of her G15 and make one.


----------



## dubz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 









I have one of those in my garage







Bout to check it out!


----------



## tofunater

I bought a scissor key keyboard and love it. The Enermax Cesar. Rated for 1 million button presses and looks quite handsome. I type a lot faster with it too cause of the short throw of the keys. Have to get a hold of one of those mechanical key ones though at some point just for kicks, see whether I like it or not.


----------



## cgg123321

I wish the IBM model m didnt have to weigh a ton, then I would sell the one i have lying around









I <3 backlit keys though =(


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cgg123321* 
I wish the IBM model m didnt have to weigh a ton, then I would sell the one i have lying around









I <3 backlit keys though =(

What's the model number on the back? If it's a 1390120 I'll take it off your hands.

And you know, you can always mod the backlighting in yourself


----------



## cgg123321

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
What's the model number on the back? If it's a 1390120 I'll take it off your hands.

And you know, you can always mod the backlighting in yourself









The only one i can find right now in my Dell one, made by Lexmark

Manufacture date: 04-14-92

part no: 1397651
id:5041087

this thing was originally pretty yucky.. but then i took out all the keys and cleaned out every single speck of dirty and dust and now it looks brand new







its missing 1 keycap though (F4) i put a home one there cause i got almost another whole set of those caps









also got a disgusting black 1989 real IBM model M im too scared and lazy to clean


----------



## Manyak

doh, lol









Well either way I bet if you cleaned the other one up you could probably sell them on ebay for at least $30+shipping each. People who like those boards (like me!) actually like how heavy it is and don't mind paying the shipping cost to get it


----------



## cgg123321

whats the difference between that dell and the Model M anyways? they seem almost identical, I've done a little research on the history of this solid keyboard but that was a while ago









I bet i could love this keyboard if I gave it time, but I love my G15 too much


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cgg123321* 
whats the difference between that dell and the Model M anyways? they seem almost identical, I've done a little research on the history of this solid keyboard but that was a while ago









I bet i could love this keyboard if I gave it time, but I love my G15 too much









Basically its just build quality. IBM > Lexmark > Unicomp. Not that either Lexmark or Unicomp is _bad_, they just aren't as good as IBM. You know, thicker plastic, heavier metal base, that kind of stuff.

Why don't you like, mod the G15 screen and extra buttons into the Model M? And maybe dye it. Then you'd get the best of both!


----------



## cgg123321

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Basically its just build quality. IBM > Lexmark > Unicomp. Not that either Lexmark or Unicomp is _bad_, they just aren't as good as IBM. You know, thicker plastic, heavier metal base, that kind of stuff.

Why don't you like, mod the G15 screen and extra buttons into the Model M? And maybe dye it. Then you'd get the best of both!

I'm way too noob for that kind of modding









Have to say almost no keyboard out there today is even close to the model M in terms of build qulity


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cgg123321* 
I'm way too noob for that kind of modding









Have to say almost no keyboard out there today is even close to the model M in terms of build qulity

Yeah the Model M is a beast of a keyboard. Some of them have been in use for over 20 years, which alone says tons about their quality.


----------



## ColdHardCash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hitman1985* 
now i got to be the boo man i guess, the g15 i got (old version) i prefer over any other keyboard because of the simple fact that i can see all my temps on the little lcd, i can also see all the folks in teamspeak or ventrillo channel, i dont care if a keyboard looks plain or not, this is the function i bought this keyboard for, the simple fact that its a long lasting and very funtional keyboard, it cost me about 70 bucks last year, so i dont think its a waste if you need those functions. so the 70bucks saved me minimizing the game.

the point of those keyboards (mechanical) is more the daily typing not gaming in my opinion, but everyone has their preferrence.

Greetz
hitman1985

I'm the same as you, i hated it when you were talking on a mic and you didn't know who you were talking to without alt/tabbing.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ColdHardCash* 
I'm the same as you, i hated it when you were talking on a mic and you didn't know who you were talking to without alt/tabbing.

Two monitors 4tw


----------



## Murderous Moppet

I have two G15's, a Compaq KB9963 (dome), and a Compaq RT101, which is mechanical, and I greatly prefer the feel of the G15's over both the Compaq keyboards.

EDIT: How long before someone starts a thread about how optical and laser mice suck, and ball mice register and feel better?


----------



## ColdHardCash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Two monitors 4tw


















ahhh i forgot i have a second monitor i could use =/ i wouldn't mind purchasing one of these mechanical keyboards for gaming.


----------



## tweaker123

can anyone recommend me a cheap/good cherry switch keybaord?
i liek the very light clicking noise


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tweaker123* 
can anyone recommend me a cheap/good cherry switch keybaord?
i liek the very light clicking noise









With Cherry blues? The cheapest I know of is the Cherry G80-3000LSCRC-2 (which I can't find on ebay right now). But you could also go with a Scorpius M10.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ColdHardCash* 
ahhh i forgot i have a second monitor i could use =/ i wouldn't mind purchasing one of these mechanical keyboards for gaming.

Go for it







. Cherry blacks are great for gaming since they have no tactile bump at all, but if you think you'd be better off with it maybe go for blues instead!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Murderous Moppet* 
I have two G15's, a Compaq KB9963 (dome), and a Compaq RT101, which is mechanical, and I greatly prefer the feel of the G15's over both the Compaq keyboards.

EDIT: How long before someone starts a thread about how optical and laser mice suck, and ball mice register and feel better?

No two mechanical switches are the same. I don't know what's underneath that RT101, but maybe you could remove one of the keys and take a pic of the switch for us.

And this has nothing to do with "old" and "new". There are plenty of new keyboards with mechanical keys as well.


----------



## ColdHardCash

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Go for it







. Cherry blacks are great for gaming since they have no tactile bump at all, but if you think you'd be better off with it maybe go for blues instead!


What's the difference between the black and blue? Sorry if this has already been asked but I can't remember seeing the question.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ColdHardCash* 
What's the difference between the black and blue? Sorry if this has already been asked but I can't remember seeing the question.

Blacks are linear switches - meaning that they have no tactile bump or click when the switch actuates. Blues are both tactile and clicky.

Keep in mind that with mechanical switches, unlike rubber domes, you don't have to press the key all the way down for it to register - so having that tactile bump while typing is a nice bonus so you don't have to keep bottoming out.


----------



## dan0964

Best move I ever made was buying a steelseries 7G & Ikari


----------



## Atomagenesis

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dan0964* 
Best move I ever made was buying a steelseries 7G & Ikari

FINALLY someone who agrees with me. The SteelSeries keyboard is so freaking awesome. Everyone complains about the price, but once you use it for a couple of months you realize its the best keyboard on the market for gaming. The Ikari is an amazing mouse too, I had it for about 6 months before I sold my rig, It's pretty much the perfect mouse, even though I had to get an RMA because it shorted out on me. But I plan on buying them both again, no question, I wouldn't go with anything else. SteelSeries makes the best gaming hardware, I don't care what anyone says.


----------



## dan0964

Completly agree, its going to take a lot to get me to switch to something else, I love this combo, and the driverless-ness of the Ikari is so damn good, I hate clutter!


----------



## TFL Replica

That's interesting because I've been debating on whether to get a Razer Arctosa or something from Steelseries. I don't have the room for a G15 (nor the need for a little LCD that requires glancing away from the monitor to view).


----------



## dan0964

Well if you get a 7G, you'll be please, I was, and very much still am. So simple, none of that extra crap that you get on most "gaming" keyboards


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

I'm more than happy with my newer Logitech Illuminated. Tactile feedback and "tap" click feedback, but only just enough to know you're typing; not enough to be annoying. Perfect balance and well constructed, and the backlighting is brilliant to say the least. I would like this, but the price translates to a touch under 200 USD (excluding the import costs), so no thank you.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Atomagenesis* 
FINALLY someone who agrees with me. The SteelSeries keyboard is so freaking awesome. Everyone complains about the price, but once you use it for a couple of months you realize its the best keyboard on the market for gaming. The Ikari is an amazing mouse too, I had it for about 6 months before I sold my rig, It's pretty much the perfect mouse, even though I had to get an RMA because it shorted out on me. But I plan on buying them both again, no question, I wouldn't go with anything else. SteelSeries makes the best gaming hardware, I don't care what anyone says.

Amen!







. Right now the Steelseries 7G is one of the two best gaming keyboards out there. The other one is the DeCK Legend. It costs $30 more than the 7G, but it's backlit, and their warranty even covers modding it! They've both got Cherry black switches and full n-key rollover, so it ends up just being a difference of style.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TFL Replica* 
That's interesting because I've been debating on whether to get a Razer Arctosa or something from Steelseries. I don't have the room for a G15 (nor the need for a little LCD that requires glancing away from the monitor to view).

Screw Razer, its just another cheap keyboard with some fancy backlights. The 7G is tons better - its mechanical, and has FULL n-key rollover, so you can press as many keys as you want all over the board and they will all go through with PS/2 (10 keys with USB). Razer only does some cheap trick with the WASD cluster, where they put each of those keys on a different circuit on the matrix. The 7G and DeCK both use diodes on every single key on the entire board so that there's no rollover anywhere.

I'd just advise you to get a second keyboard, maybe a Scorpius M10, for typing. Most people hate linear keys (Cherry Blacks) for typing.


----------



## dan0964

I actually like my 7G for typing, I never find myself reaching for any of my other keyboards, even when im doing a large amount of typing. But everyones different I spose


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dan0964* 
I actually like my 7G for typing, I never find myself reaching for any of my other keyboards, even when im doing a large amount of typing. But everyones different I spose









Well at least that makes it easier for ya


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dan0964* 
Well if you get a 7G, you'll be please, I was, and very much still am. So simple, none of that extra crap that you get on most "gaming" keyboards

The overly large enter button is a bit of a turn off.








Although I'm using a keyboard with the same layout and I think I'm getting used to it. Still would prefer a bigger backspace though.


----------



## Reflux

I've had my Saitek Eclipse I for 3 years now. Solid keyboard.

I do envy you guys, those keyboards do look very, very comfortable for typing on.


----------



## PropNut

I didnt realize that there were other people who shared my preference for the old fashioned IBM type key pressure. Every time I go to an office/computer store I check out the keyboards on sale looking for a "modern" equivalent. Thanks for the excellent info, I am leaning heavily toward the Filco "Tenkeyless". I use a Belkin N52 for gaming so typing is the only requirment I have. I really miss my old XT IBM keyboards. I go through a Logitech/Microsoft wireless desktop every couple of years.


----------



## laurie

I think Manyak deserves a round of applause! 
I have tried to start some threads about keboards here but never managed to get such a lot of responses.
I think its down to his constant surveillance of the thread and his concise and helpful replies. Well done mate. I hope to see a lot of you over on geekhack.com very soon


----------



## PropNut

I have looked around Geekhack.com, but it doesnt fit my general "Uber" computing bent, too narrowly focused. Excellent source for keyboard knowledge though.

And yes, Manyak richly deserves praise. +rep


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PropNut* 
I didnt realize that there were other people who shared my preference for the old fashioned IBM type key pressure. Every time I go to an office/computer store I check out the keyboards on sale looking for a "modern" equivalent. Thanks for the excellent info, I am leaning heavily toward the Filco "Tenkeyless". I use a Belkin N52 for gaming so typing is the only requirment I have. I really miss my old XT IBM keyboards. I go through a Logitech/Microsoft wireless desktop every couple of years.

If it's the pressure you like, and you want something tenkeyless, you might want to just stick with a Model M Mini. Cherry switches require a lot less force to press than BSs, and the tactility of the browns in that Filco isn't as 'crisp' either. If you want something that feels closer to BS but looks modern, go for Cherry blues. They are still pretty light, but have a crisper tactile bump. The guy who owns elitekeyboards.com is planning on getting a shipment of specially made Filcos with them, and if you send him an email he'll reserve one for you.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laurie* 
I think Manyak deserves a round of applause!
I have tried to start some threads about keboards here but never managed to get such a lot of responses.
I think its down to his constant surveillance of the thread and his concise and helpful replies. Well done mate. I hope to see a lot of you over on geekhack.com very soon










Quote:


Originally Posted by *PropNut* 
I have looked around Geekhack.com, but it doesnt fit my general "Uber" computing bent, too narrowly focused. Excellent source for keyboard knowledge though.

And yes, Manyak richly deserves praise. +rep

Thanks guys









It just saddens me to see the sheer number of people on this site who spend hours each day on their PCs, yet give more thought to choosing a case fan than to choosing a keyboard. I mean you can buy whatever you like, but at least make it an informed decision


----------



## Afrodisiac

Cool guide man.

What do you think about the ABS A1 Mechanical keyboard?

My G15 v2 is a flimsy joke for what I paid for it. I am a fan of workhorse products, not gimmicky ones (which is what the G15 is).

For example, instead of a flashy branded glowing gaming headset, I would prefer some solid HD555s.

So, is this keyboard worth it if you've ever tried it?
I'm sick of glowing, macro-key, LCD, flimsy, shiny, matte, overpriced hunks of plastic. I just want a solid keyboard that will work day in day out with no problems and that is comfortable.


----------



## PropNut

I have been looking at the ABS A1 as well, can anyone fill us in on this board?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Afrodisiac*


Cool guide man.

What do you think about the ABS A1 Mechanical keyboard?

My G15 v2 is a flimsy joke for what I paid for it. I am a fan of workhorse products, not gimmicky ones (which is what the G15 is).

For example, instead of a flashy branded glowing gaming headset, I would prefer some solid HD555s.

So, is this keyboard worth it if you've ever tried it?
I'm sick of glowing, macro-key, LCD, flimsy, shiny, matte, overpriced hunks of plastic. I just want a solid keyboard that will work day in day out with no problems and that is comfortable.


The ABS may be just what you're looking for then







. No extra buttons for 'play', 'pause', 'sleep', or 'more lotion', and no clear plastic for hair and crumbs to fall in and grow science experiments.









I haven't tried the ABS itself, but I've tried other keyboards with the same switches (black alps copies) and have only heard good things about ABS's manufacturing quality. I've recommended it to a few people and noones ever complained so it can't be that bad









But really, any mechanical board will be what you're looking for, because they are _all_ workhorses and easily last 10 yrs +. Hell, I'm typing on a keyboard made in 1987 right now lol. You just gotta decide on what kind of switches you want - tactile? clicky? do you like to pound the board or want to barely have to press the keys?


----------



## PropNut

Looks have got to be a consideration for many people though. I want old school quality, but I also want style to go along with my modded and customized equiptment. I would love it if a mechanical keyboard would have a good backlighting system also. I was very interested in the gigabyte keyboard with its USB hub, USB audio, and Cherry black keybs but no backlighting?! And of course, I cannot find one retail anywhere.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


Looks have got to be a consideration for many people though. I want old school quality, but I also want style to go along with my modded and customized equiptment. I would love it if a mechanical keyboard would have a good backlighting system also. I was very interested in the gigabyte keyboard with its USB hub, USB audio, and Cherry black keybs but no backlighting?! And of course, I cannot find one retail anywhere.


Oh I definitely understand about the looks, I'm just pointing out that whatever you get will last you for many years to come (unless its a manufacturing defect or you manage to get coffee on the PCB, heh).

By the way, I've heard some bad things about that gigabyte board, apparently their manufacturing is pretty shoddy.

And if you want a mechanical keyboard with backlighting, there are three options I know of.

For Cherry Blacks, you've got the DeCK (pick blue, red, or green lights), and it has full n-key rollover. Their warranty is the best you can find - 10 years, and they even cover modding as long as you don't ruin the PCB doing it.

Also, I was asking them about their switch model, and they said that pretty soon (maybe in the middle of summer) they will have a model with Cherry Blues. Link to thread. I fully plan on buying one

















For Cherry Blues you've got the Scorpius M10 BL. Pretty hard to find though.









Then there are a couple of keyboards from TG3 Electronics that use a bunch of different Cherry switches (all tactile though, so they are either Blues, Browns, or MLs, I'm just not sure about most of them). They are DeCK's parent company. The only catch is that these keyboards are advertised as industrial grade, so thy may be a bit more expensive (but feel free to contact them anyway). They also custom make keyboards, but there might be a minimum order if you do that.


----------



## Afrodisiac

I want to feel the keys. Pounding would be good. I love mouses whose clicks I can feel.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Afrodisiac*


I want to feel the keys. Pounding would be good. I love mouses whose clicks I can feel.


Well you'll feel the keys with any tactile switch...but for pounding, your best bet is Buckling Springs (Look at Unicomp). However, if you don't like their looks, you'll be happy to know that the Alps switches on the ABS are the second most resistive switches (out of the common ones at least).


----------



## Afrodisiac

Thanks for all the help









Why are those Deck boards expensive?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Afrodisiac* 
Thanks for all the help









Why are those Deck boards expensive?

If you think those are expensive, check out the Topre ones.

But nah you're right, I really don't know why they are that expensive other than they feel like that's their optimum price point. Maybe because of their warranty too.


----------



## Drizzt5

Is there a keyboard out that has light up keys and is mechanical and is not expensive?

I only bought a g11 cause it was cheap and had light up keys... Which was exactly what I needed. So i could see them in the dark.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Drizzt5*


Is there a keyboard out that has light up keys and is mechanical and is not expensive?

I only bought a g11 cause it was cheap and had light up keys... Which was exactly what I needed. So i could see them in the dark.


The ones I listed on the previous page (here) are the only backlit ones I know of. I guess there's also the Deck 82 key but it's still expensive.


----------



## Manyak

Updated the list with links to the boards.


----------



## wierdo124

I don't see any issues with my G15..


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wierdo124*


I don't see any issues with my G15..


If you drive a Honda Civic but have never driven an M5, does that make them equal?

I guess you'll never really know until you try the M5


----------



## dan0964

Quote:



Originally Posted by *manyak*


if you drive a honda civic but have never driven an m5, does that make them equal?

I guess you'll never really know until you try the m5










qft


----------



## timw4mail

Now, if I could only put a mechanical keyboard on my Eee PC and Macbook...


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
Now, if I could only put a mechanical keyboard on my Eee PC and Macbook...

lol you and me both


----------



## Prosiddon

Are there any options for a small mechanical keyboard (80-88 keys I guess) with blank key caps that doesn't cost $300 (HHKB Pro 2)?


----------



## CallmeRoth

Ive grown to like my Lycosa/Arctosa but really after using differant styles and types of keyboards or mice, once I am in a game and concentrating I could be using a Block a wood for all I care.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Prosiddon*


Are there any options for a small mechanical keyboard (80-88 keys I guess) with blank key caps that doesn't cost $300 (HHKB Pro 2)?


Well as far as the blank keycaps though, you can always just use rit dye to turn the keys black, and the letter won't be visible anymore.

The only tenkeyless board you can get _with_ blank keycaps is a Model M Mini. Well, you'd buy it as is, and then get the keycaps from Unicomp - just call them up and you can order any type of replacement part for it.

But if you don't mind dying, the closest keyboard to the HHKB layout is the SIIG Minitouch, with white alps switches. However, only the older models are mechanical, the new ones are all rubber dome and feel like crap. And I can't seem to find any.

Then there's the Cherry ML4100. They use ML Blacks, which are low profile mechanical switches, and the keys are a bit closer together than usual. As long as you don't have big hands you'll be fine with it though.

Then if you just want a tenkeyless board, there's the Filco FKBN87M/EB. It uses cherry MX browns, and is really well made. One of the best boards on the market.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CallmeRoth*


Ive grown to like my Lycosa/Arctosa but really after using differant styles and types of keyboards or mice, once I am in a game and concentrating I could be using a Block a wood for all I care.


Agreed. These are more for typing


----------



## PropNut

I posted on the Deck Forums about a backlit Cherry Blue keyboard and asked if they had plans for one. The admin responded saying that there was no plans for a cherry/blue keyboard but stay tuned for a new, more tactile, keyboard later this summer (as you mentioned before) but this does clear up the question whether it will be with cherry/blue switches or not. (Darn it) I would be perfectly happy with Cherry/brown and blue backlighting though.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


I posted on the Deck Forums about a backlit Cherry Blue keyboard and asked if they had plans for one. The admin responded saying that there was no plans for a cherry/blue keyboard but stay tuned for a new, more tactile, keyboard later this summer (as you mentioned before) but this does clear up the question whether it will be with cherry/blue switches or not. (Darn it) I would be perfectly happy with Cherry/brown and blue backlighting though.


Ah crap, yeah they'll most likely be browns then.

Well, if you want one in blues, you can always buy another keyboard with blues and do some soldering/desoldering!


----------



## Icekilla

I don't want to offend anyone but, for gaming or typing, I prefer a low profile keys, keyboard.

I'm using one right now (It's an acteck AT-SLX700) http://acteck.com/_es/prod_detail.ph...eclados%20Slim and it works fine for me.

But I don't get the point, and i'd like that someone explains me the advantage of a mechanical keyboard, vs. the common gaming keyboards we all use...


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Icekilla*


I don't want to offend anyone but, for gaming or typing, I prefer a low profile keys, keyboard.

I'm using one right now (It's an acteck AT-SLX700) http://acteck.com/_es/prod_detail.ph...eclados%20Slim and it works fine for me.

But I don't get the point, and i'd like that someone explains me the advantage of a mechanical keyboard, vs. the common gaming keyboards we all use...


Why do you like a low profile keyboard? Because they have a nice 'bump' when you press them? Because they are easier to press than full size keyboards? Because you don't have to push as far down to get them to switch?

These are the same reasons why mechanical keyboards are better than both rubber domes and scissor switches. While on the outside you see a plain old keyboard, you only have to press the keys about halfway down before they actuate, there's absolutely no 'mushy' feeling, they can be both extremely light to press or pretty hard depending on which you prefer, and the tactile feel is much more crisp than even the scissor switches you are used to.

And while your fingers get less fatigued on scissor switches than on full size keyboards, they get even less fatigued on good mechanical switches. Because you only have to press the keys down halfway, once your muscles get used to typing on it you will rarely be bottoming out the keys - meaning you put the minimum amount of stress on your fingers. With domes and scissors you still have to press the key all the way down for it to register, which wastes energy since you are pushing against nothing but a solid piece of plastic at the end of each keystroke.

Often enough, people might get a mechanical board, try it out for a few minutes, and be like "I still don't get the point". But once you give yourself enough time to get used to it you won't want to go back anymore.


----------



## G|F.E.A.D|Killa

i like my G15 first gen, end of story, i just like how it feels, and yes i used to use a IBM back in the day and i LOVE that keyboard, but it was just to simple for me.


----------



## PropNut

The Key is (yes, pun intended) to use what you like. The G15 is good keyboard if the person using it is comfortable and productive with it. Few people realize how comfortable a mechanical keyboard is though. I too used an IBM model M back in the day (my first computer was a Z80 so I had many years of good mechanical keyboards) and now find them too simple, that is why I eagerly await a non linier mechanical keyboard from Deck. I want the backlighting, but I would also want a good tactile feel (Brown or blue switches). Unfortunatly none of the companies that I have seen feel that mechanical keyboards should include bells and whistles.


----------



## PropNut

I was just checking the Deck website, did the Legend just jump in price from 129.00 to 159.00?!!


----------



## Gurr

I have been looking at mechanical keyboards for awhile now, I'm looking for something relatively quiet, and simple. Backlit would be wonderful but the only 2 back lit ones I've been able to find are the steelseries and the DeCK which are to expensive for me to purchase.

I was wondering if anyone could point me towards one that suits what I'm looking for.

PS - relatively quiet = the quieter the better

Thanks in advance, great thread.. I've skimmed it but still at a loss for what I would be looking for...


----------



## RpR^

when i saw the 'Don't buy a Logitech or Razer, see what a REAL keyboard is like!' in your signature i stopped reading your whole topic.

In my personal exp i found out that razer is crap, but logitech?
Dude, do you even know what you are talking about?
So they are the leading, number 1 maker of mice and keyboards for no reason right?

Logitech will always be nr1 and make nr1 keyboards, every logitech i had was better then any other keyboard i ever used.

As a competitive (professional) LAN-player, logitech has never let me down..
I always used logitech, the only other keyboard i play with and is not a LGT is a steelseries 6G.

Please base your topic on facts, instead of making a so called GUIDE of personal oppinions..

grts


----------



## IEATFISH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RpR^*


when i saw the 'Don't buy a Logitech or Razer, see what a REAL keyboard is like!' in your signature i stopped reading your whole topic.

In my personal exp i found out that razer is crap, but logitech?
Dude, do you even know what you are talking about?
So they are the leading, number 1 maker of mice and keyboards for no reason right?

Logitech will always be nr1 and make nr1 keyboards, every logitech i had was better then any other keyboard i ever used.

As a competitive (professional) LAN-player, logitech has never let me down..
I always used logitech, the only other keyboard i play with and is not a LGT is a steelseries 6G.

Please base your topic on facts, instead of making a so called GUIDE of personal oppinions..

grts


Have you consistently used a mechanical keyboard? If so, what were your impressions? You don't even mention why the Logitech is better, only that they are the number 1 seller of mice and keyboards. Seems like a pretty weak argument as to why they are the best. Just because McDonald's sells the most bugers in the world, do they make the best burger?

Please base your statements on facts, instead of making a so called self righteous post of personal opinions.


----------



## Gurr

@RpR^

Just because they make the most doesn't make them the best. Windows is the leading OS but that doesn't make it the best. It makes it the most widely used is all.

If you don't like someone's 'guide' you don't go in and bash it. You leave it alone and move on. Arrogance is obnoxious.


----------



## laurie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RpR^* 
snip

An important thing to mention is that a mechanical board is more for typing than gaming in general.
Perhaps if you were a 'professional' typist you would appreciate the mechanical boards more.
You come off as pretty arrogant and simple.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


I was just checking the Deck website, did the Legend just jump in price from 129.00 to 159.00?!!


Yup, a few months ago. lol


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Yup, a few months ago. lol










Glad I bought mine when I did then.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RpR^*


when i saw the 'Don't buy a Logitech or Razer, see what a REAL keyboard is like!' in your signature i stopped reading your whole topic.

In my personal exp i found out that razer is crap, but logitech?
Dude, do you even know what you are talking about?
So they are the leading, number 1 maker of mice and keyboards for no reason right?

Logitech will always be nr1 and make nr1 keyboards, every logitech i had was better then any other keyboard i ever used.

As a competitive (professional) LAN-player, logitech has never let me down..
I always used logitech, the only other keyboard i play with and is not a LGT is a steelseries 6G.

Please base your topic on facts, instead of making a so called GUIDE of personal oppinions..

grts



And I really doubt _anyone_ cares if they are gaming on a mechanical keyboard, a rubber dome keyboard, or a wooden block. Really. Even so, you want technical proof? Look up the term _n-key rollover_. And then see if you can find a Logitech keyboard that can do it.

And by the way - newsflash - *the Steelseries 6G you game on is a mechanical keyboard.* Go ahead, pull off one of the keycaps and look.

So please, next time you want to come in and bash a thread like this, at least get your facts straight first.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gurr*


I have been looking at mechanical keyboards for awhile now, I'm looking for something relatively quiet, and simple. Backlit would be wonderful but the only 2 back lit ones I've been able to find are the steelseries and the DeCK which are to expensive for me to purchase.

I was wondering if anyone could point me towards one that suits what I'm looking for.

PS - relatively quiet = the quieter the better

Thanks in advance, great thread.. I've skimmed it but still at a loss for what I would be looking for...


No worries, its a lot of information to pick up at once and it's all over the place.









But the quietest mechanical boards would be the ones with the Cherry Browns. Well technically, the ones with linear switches (cherry blacks) are the quietest, but when you type on one of those you are likely to keep bottoming out, which is louder than what you get off of cherry browns.

The best cherry brown board is this Filco Majestouch, but it's just as expensive as the others. You can also get an MX11800. There's also a Cherry G80 Model that has them, but I'm not too familiar with their model names to pick it out (each letter or two stands for something, one of them being the switch type, and I have no idea which is which). If I can find the datasheet on it I'll post back and let you know.


----------



## xHassassin

Is an IBM model M 1391401 1988 model good for 26USD?


----------



## Uantyv

Just spent 80$ on brand new steelseries 7g. And i can just say wow where i have been and knowing that i earn my cash by typing /facepalm. And as gaming keyboard no windows button next to ctrl is win cos sometimes you just slip and have to swear







. The difference is as big as going from 7$ mouse to top razer, steelseries mouse.


----------



## HatesFury

I'm utterly dumbfounded by this entire thread. I'll be honest, i didn't read the article in depth, but i did read the entire OP. From what i've gathered the benefits\\bonuses of a mechanical keyboard are: Feedback and durability.

About me:
I'm an IT professional, so lets suffice it to say that i spend plenty of time behind the keyboard, i'm also an avid gamer, so tack that on as well.... I've owned\\used keyboards since the age of 5, and type at well above the average WPM. While i do see that durability might be a plus for some (moving alot, or just HATE change) i don't really see this as a benefit. The G15 that i own is about 3+ years old now and works just as good as the day i got it (even after a few spills that required i pull out all the keys and clean the keyboard), as does the $10.00 Dell keyboard that i own (which is atleast 10 years old). I've used both a mechanical (we have a lot of old dell white keyboards at work) and non-mechanical quite thoroughly, and see no real benefits to a mechanical.

If you are a comfortable "typist" then i don't see the point\
eed for feedback.... I know i pressed the key without any feedback, because i pressed the key. Infact, at the speed i type, you'd never benefit from "click" feedback as it's just a constant stream of thumping if i'm cliping along at a good pace. I don't see a need for a "bump" effect, as again, i can feel the key going down and stopping at the bottom, and can actually tell when i've failed to apply enough force to the key because it doesn't hit the "end" of it's travel range.

My take:
With my G15 i have the features of backlight, software profiling (not sure if USB is a requirement for this), macro keys, and i actually like the "soft touch, low noise" feature of a membrane\\dome keyboard.

The question:
Given my clear lack of need for feedback, and lack of problems with duability, i fail to see any benefit to a mechanical keyboard.... can you convinence me otherwise?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xHassassin*


Is an IBM model M 1391401 1988 model good for 26USD?


Yup, that's a pretty good price, go for it









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Uantyv*


Just spent 80$ on brand new steelseries 7g. And i can just say wow where i have been and knowing that i earn my cash by typing /facepalm. And as gaming keyboard no windows button next to ctrl is win cos sometimes you just slip and have to swear







. The difference is as big as going from 7$ mouse to top razer, steelseries mouse.


lol yes it is









And now you've been hooked!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HatesFury*


I'm utterly dumbfounded by this entire thread. I'll be honest, i didn't read the article in depth, but i did read the entire OP. From what i've gathered the benefits\\bonuses of a mechanical keyboard are: Feedback and durability.

About me:
I'm an IT professional, so lets suffice it to say that i spend plenty of time behind the keyboard, i'm also an avid gamer, so tack that on as well.... I've owned\\used keyboards since the age of 5, and type at well above the average WPM. While i do see that durability might be a plus for some (moving alot, or just HATE change) i don't really see this as a benefit. The G15 that i own is about 3+ years old now and works just as good as the day i got it (even after a few spills that required i pull out all the keys and clean the keyboard), as does the $10.00 Dell keyboard that i own (which is atleast 10 years old). I've used both a mechanical (we have a lot of old dell white keyboards at work) and non-mechanical quite thoroughly, and see no real benefits to a mechanical.

If you are a comfortable "typist" then i don't see the point\
eed for feedback.... I know i pressed the key without any feedback, because i pressed the key. Infact, at the speed i type, you'd never benefit from "click" feedback as it's just a constant stream of thumping if i'm cliping along at a good pace. I don't see a need for a "bump" effect, as again, i can feel the key going down and stopping at the bottom, and can actually tell when i've failed to apply enough force to the key because it doesn't hit the "end" of it's travel range.

My take:
With my G15 i have the features of backlight, software profiling (not sure if USB is a requirement for this), macro keys, and i actually like the "soft touch, low noise" feature of a membrane\\dome keyboard.

The question:
Given my clear lack of need for feedback, and lack of problems with duability, i fail to see any benefit to a mechanical keyboard.... can you convinence me otherwise?



I'm also an IT professional (and programmer), so I know exactly where you're coming from.

The thing is that you're missing one of the fundamental differences between mechanical keyboards and rubber domes - that with mechanicals you only have to press the key halfway down for it to actuate. So while I agree that the clicky aspect of most switches is useless after a certain speed, the tactile feedback is not.

Take Cherry MX Blue switches for example. The full key travel is 4mm, and the actuation point is at 2mm. The tactile bump is placed right before the actuation point - at around 1mm from the rest position - so that as soon as your finger feels it you know that you can prepare to move it to the next key while its momentum finishes the keystroke (without bottoming out).

After a little while of typing like this your finger muscles will get used to it, and you'll end up tapping the keys with just the right amount of force each time. And less key travel + less force = less fatigue.

As for software profiling and macro keys, there's always the program AutoHotkey. Personally, I prefer it over dedicated keys anyway - because it lets you set any key or combination of keys as a macro. So when you game for example, you can use it to disable your Windows key. Or set it as a macro. Or set it as a modifier for macros, to use combinations like windows+s, or windows+right click.

Edit: And there are a few backlit models of boards (I put a list a few pages back, I'll copy it in a second). And you can always mod it yourself.

Edit 2: Link


----------



## HatesFury

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I'm also an IT professional (and programmer), so I know exactly where you're coming from.

The thing is that you're missing one of the fundamental differences between mechanical keyboards and rubber domes - that with mechanicals you only have to press the key halfway down for it to actuate. So while I agree that the clicky aspect of most switches is useless after a certain speed, the tactile feedback is not.

Take Cherry MX Blue switches for example. The full key travel is 4mm, and the actuation point is at 2mm. The tactile bump is placed right before the actuation point - at around 1mm from the rest position - so that as soon as your finger feels it you know that you can prepare to move it to the next key while its momentum finishes the keystroke (without bottoming out).

After a little while of typing like this your finger muscles will get used to it, and you'll end up tapping the keys with just the right amount of force each time. And less key travel + less force = less fatigue.

As for software profiling and macro keys, there's always the program AutoHotkey. Personally, I prefer it over dedicated keys anyway - because it lets you set any key or combination of keys as a macro. So when you game for example, you can use it to disable your Windows key. Or set it as a macro. Or set it as a modifier for macros, to use combinations like windows+s, or windows+right click.


So in other words.... i should just stick with what i like


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HatesFury*


So in other words.... i should just stick with what i like










Yes, but it also doesn't hurt to see if you like something else a little better







You can't know unless you try!


----------



## Uantyv

Spent an hour playing css its was something completly different. My movement felt a lot more fluid, jumps happening instanly when i press space will take time to get used to this.


----------



## IEATFISH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HatesFury*


I'm utterly dumbfounded by this entire thread. I'll be honest, i didn't read the article in depth, but i did read the entire OP. From what i've gathered the benefits\\bonuses of a mechanical keyboard are: Feedback and durability.

About me:
I'm an IT professional, so lets suffice it to say that i spend plenty of time behind the keyboard, i'm also an avid gamer, so tack that on as well.... I've owned\\used keyboards since the age of 5, and type at well above the average WPM. While i do see that durability might be a plus for some (moving alot, or just HATE change) i don't really see this as a benefit. The G15 that i own is about 3+ years old now and works just as good as the day i got it (even after a few spills that required i pull out all the keys and clean the keyboard), as does the $10.00 Dell keyboard that i own (which is atleast 10 years old). I've used both a mechanical (we have a lot of old dell white keyboards at work) and non-mechanical quite thoroughly, and see no real benefits to a mechanical.

If you are a comfortable "typist" then i don't see the point\
eed for feedback.... I know i pressed the key without any feedback, because i pressed the key. Infact, at the speed i type, you'd never benefit from "click" feedback as it's just a constant stream of thumping if i'm cliping along at a good pace. *I don't see a need for a "bump" effect, as again, i can feel the key going down and stopping at the bottom, and can actually tell when i've failed to apply enough force to the key because it doesn't hit the "end" of it's travel range. *

My take:
With my G15 i have the features of backlight, software profiling (not sure if USB is a requirement for this), macro keys, and i actually like the "soft touch, low noise" feature of a membrane\\dome keyboard.

The question:
Given my clear lack of need for feedback, and lack of problems with duability, i fail to see any benefit to a mechanical keyboard.... can you convinence me otherwise?


The biggest thing I understand from the guide is that this is the bad thing. Once you've pressed the key all the way down, you are then only pushing it against the plastic. It puts more strain on your fingertips and muscles. By only pushing the keys part way down, you are never wasting energy by trying to push the key against the keyboard where it cannot moove any further.

At least that is how I understand it.

I have a cheap ($7) Logitech keyboard that I have had for 6 months or so and it is starting to fail. I'll be running in a game and let go of the key and it keeps going in that direction. Also, the keys will stick when I'm typing. I'm looking at getting one of these keyboards, probably the ABS M1. I don't have the money for a very expensive one, but that one seems to be a good balance. I never use the extra features on a 'gaming' keyboard anyway.


----------



## erebus14

What do you mean by the Das having a "badly designed controller"?


----------



## laurie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *erebus14* 
What do you mean by the Das having a "badly designed controller"?

The controller PCB has 12key rollover implemented with software. However there is a delay on the input meaning if two keys are input in very quick concession you would not always get the one you hit first first. The board has priority set for each key and will enter them in the order it has been programmed to do so. You wont notice if you dont touch type though as you are unlikely to press they keys in concession quickly enough.
If you do touch type then you may start to see typos.
I got teh rather than the a lot with mine.


----------



## timw4mail

Just out of curiosity, do you guys know of any (currently-produced) laptops with mechanical switches? Or are they all scissor-switch domes?


----------



## erebus14

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laurie* 
The controller PCB has 12key rollover implemented with software. However there is a delay on the input meaning if two keys are input in very quick concession you would not always get the one you hit first first. The board has priority set for each key and will enter them in the order it has been programmed to do so. You wont notice if you dont touch type though as you are unlikely to press they keys in concession quickly enough.
If you do touch type then you may start to see typos.
I got teh rather than the a lot with mine.

Interesting. I read a lot of reviews (both editorial and customer), and never really heard of this problem. Still, I think it's a minor gripe for such a slick keyboard with a great feel. I'm gonna order it, and I can always return it within 30 days if it's not my cup of tea.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *erebus14* 
Interesting. I read a lot of reviews (both editorial and customer), and never really heard of this problem. Still, I think it's a minor gripe for such a slick keyboard with a great feel. I'm gonna order it, and I can always return it within 30 days if it's not my cup of tea.









Just remember that there are cheaper keyboards with the same switches, like the Scorpius M10, that don't have the same issue.


----------



## Sir Humpsalot

Lots of great info... hard to digest though...

I miss the old "clickety clack" from my sister's old x386. It had an obnoxiously "tinny" sound when each key was depressed and if you bottomed out a key it would sound like you were snapping a ruler on a desk... over and over and over again... but I never found a keyboard that I could type as fast on..

Right now I'm using a logitech wave and it irritates my slight carpal tunnel after awhile. I always have yearned for a clickety keyboard. So which one should I be looking at for that nice old-skool clickety-clack feeling?

I looked at the majestouch, but I don't think that linear feel is what I'm looking for so much as the slight "jolt" through the fingers when the metallic click occurs which made touch typing so easy for me...


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sir Humpsalot* 
Lots of great info... hard to digest though...

I miss the old "clickety clack" from my sister's old x386. It had an obnoxiously "tinny" sound when each key was depressed and if you bottomed out a key it would sound like you were snapping a ruler on a desk... over and over and over again... but I never found a keyboard that I could type as fast on..

Right now I'm using a logitech wave and it irritates my slight carpal tunnel after awhile. I always have yearned for a clickety keyboard. So which one should I be looking at for that nice old-skool clickety-clack feeling?

I looked at the majestouch, but I don't think that linear feel is what I'm looking for so much as the slight "jolt" through the fingers when the metallic click occurs which made touch typing so easy for me...

I think you'd be best off with an IBM Model M, or a Unicomp keyboard. Those have that metalic sound.

I think you're actually looking for an even older keyboard, but I could be wrong.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sir Humpsalot* 
Lots of great info... hard to digest though...

I miss the old "clickety clack" from my sister's old x386. It had an obnoxiously "tinny" sound when each key was depressed and if you bottomed out a key it would sound like you were snapping a ruler on a desk... over and over and over again... but I never found a keyboard that I could type as fast on..

Right now I'm using a logitech wave and it irritates my slight carpal tunnel after awhile. I always have yearned for a clickety keyboard. So which one should I be looking at for that nice old-skool clickety-clack feeling?

I looked at the majestouch, but I don't think that linear feel is what I'm looking for so much as the slight "jolt" through the fingers when the metallic click occurs which made touch typing so easy for me...

Yeah if it had a metallic sound, chances are it was an IBM Model M. But the sound it makes is more like "click" when a key goes down, "clack" when it comes back up.

However, it could also be a board based on one of the noisier Alps switches (most common is White Alps). Those clack like it's nobody's business.

I don't know if you have the money to try both out to see which one it was (or if you remember what it looks like) but here's an IBM and here's a white alps board.


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sir Humpsalot* 
Lots of great info... hard to digest though...

I miss the old "clickety clack" from my sister's old x386. It had an obnoxiously "tinny" sound when each key was depressed and if you bottomed out a key it would sound like you were snapping a ruler on a desk... over and over and over again... but I never found a keyboard that I could type as fast on..

Right now I'm using a logitech wave and it irritates my slight carpal tunnel after awhile. I always have yearned for a clickety keyboard. So which one should I be looking at for that nice old-skool clickety-clack feeling?

I looked at the majestouch, but I don't think that linear feel is what I'm looking for so much as the slight "jolt" through the fingers when the metallic click occurs which made touch typing so easy for me...

Hey, I have a Logitech Wave too!








Wireless if failing though, should've gotten the corded version.









Anyways, my Model M is coming on Wednesday!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xHassassin* 
Hey, I have a Logitech Wave too!








Wireless if failing though, should've gotten the corded version.









Anyways, my Model M is coming on Wednesday!









Sweet, you got it!


----------



## guyladouche

I can't stand clackity-clack keyboards...







I do like the tactile feedback they give back, but man if they don't drive me insane with the noise. I'd rather have a quieter, mushier dome membrane type even though I lose sensitivity/feedback.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *guyladouche* 
I can't stand clackity-clack keyboards...







I do like the tactile feedback they give back, but man if they don't drive me insane with the noise. I'd rather have a quieter, mushier dome membrane type even though I lose sensitivity/feedback.

You can always get something with cherry brown or topre capacitive switches, no click or clack!


----------



## SkoalFineCut

I got a scorpius m10 about a week ago, from a link in this thread no less. After a week of using it I have to say I am extremely pleased. I have no idea if I type faster on it, but I do enjoy typing on it far more.

It also makes the rest of my keyboards feel mushy and slow, except for my old fujitsu one, but the layout of the keys on that one are in the old style (double spaced enter key) and I could never get used to reaching that far for backslash, and I've grown too accustomed to using windows-key shortcuts.


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SkoalFineCut* 
I got a scorpius m10 about a week ago, from a link in this thread no less. After a week of using it I have to say I am extremely pleased. I have no idea if I type faster on it, but I do enjoy typing on it far more.

It also makes the rest of my keyboards feel mushy and slow, except for my old fujitsu one, but the layout of the keys on that one are in the old style (double spaced enter key) and I could never get used to reaching that far for backslash, and I've grown too accustomed to using windows-key shortcuts.

Eh, the backslash you get used to after awhile.
The thing that I never get used to is the \\ key. Always end up pressing enter.


----------



## pow3rtr1p

My Saitek Eclipse has a great backlight, and a pretty good keystroke, but it takes up too much space. Are Deck the only brand that does backlighting on mechanical boards? Also, what all models have small footprints? I know Deck makes mini-boards, and the SIIG Minitouch is obviously small, but anything else? Any other backlit boards?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SkoalFineCut* 
I got a scorpius m10 about a week ago, from a link in this thread no less. After a week of using it I have to say I am extremely pleased. I have no idea if I type faster on it, but I do enjoy typing on it far more.

It also makes the rest of my keyboards feel mushy and slow, except for my old fujitsu one, but the layout of the keys on that one are in the old style (double spaced enter key) and I could never get used to reaching that far for backslash, and I've grown too accustomed to using windows-key shortcuts.

That's great news!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *pow3rtr1p* 
My Saitek Eclipse has a great backlight, and a pretty good keystroke, but it takes up too much space. Are Deck the only brand that does backlighting on mechanical boards? Also, what all models have small footprints? I know Deck makes mini-boards, and the SIIG Minitouch is obviously small, but anything else? Any other backlit boards?

There are only three companies I know of with backlit mechanicals: Deck, their parent company TG3 Electronics, and iOne with their Scorpius M10 BL.

BUT, if you don't mind a bit of modding, you can get custom keycaps made for any keyboard, with the clear lettering for backlighting (see here, here, or here). But I believe that those companies have a minimum order amount, so it might be a bit expensive unless you can get some other people who want the same keycaps to share the cost.

As for a small footprint, there's the Topre HHKB (arguably the best keyswitches ever made, beware of the 'lite' model), the Cherry ML 4100 with short-travel cherry ML switches (pic), the smk-85, and the Filco FKB-86E, both with alps switches (I think they are white alps, but I forget). Oh, and some of those backlit boards as well


----------



## Bartender

I have an old Sun Type 5 Keyboard in my house that I think my dad supposedly took along with an old Sun CRT moniter from Marc Andreessen when the company was moving or something. Is the Type 5 a mechanical?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SkoalFineCut* 
I got a scorpius m10 about a week ago, from a link in this thread no less. After a week of using it I have to say I am extremely pleased. I have no idea if I type faster on it, but I do enjoy typing on it far more.

It also makes the rest of my keyboards feel mushy and slow, except for my old fujitsu one, but the layout of the keys on that one are in the old style (double spaced enter key) and I could never get used to reaching that far for backslash, and I've grown too accustomed to using windows-key shortcuts.

Perhaps the Fujitsu has a mechanical mechanism?
Now if only we coiuld get rid of that infernal Caps Lock key...


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bartender* 
I have an old Sun Type 5 Keyboard in my house that I think my dad supposedly took along with an old Sun CRT moniter from Marc Andreessen when the company was moving or something. Is the Type 5 a mechanical?

I'd take off the keys and look, but if I were to guess I'd go with membrane since they're only like 10USD on ebay.


----------



## Bartender

One key is already off, some key that doesn't really exist on newer keyboards anymore so whatever, but it has an odd design. I don't really see any rubber unless I take off another piece which would probably screw things up


----------



## beanbagofdoom

I just want a quiet/silent high quality keyboard for gaming and typing. Now thats hard to find..


----------



## Emmanuel

I'm fine typing on my notebook keyboard.


----------



## pow3rtr1p

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanbagofdoom* 
I just want a quiet/silent high quality keyboard for gaming and typing. Now thats hard to find..

The new Aluminum Mac boards are quiet, and a bit like a laptop.


----------



## SkoalFineCut

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xHassassin* 
Eh, the backslash you get used to after awhile.
The thing that I never get used to is the \\ key. Always end up pressing enter.









\\ is backslash









Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
Perhaps the Fujitsu has a mechanical mechanism?
Now if only we coiuld get rid of that infernal Caps Lock key...

It is if I remember right, if I ever dig it out of storage I'll take a look.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bartender* 
I have an old Sun Type 5 Keyboard in my house that I think my dad supposedly took along with an old Sun CRT moniter from Marc Andreessen when the company was moving or something. Is the Type 5 a mechanical?

I don't know....you'd have to take a key off and post a pic.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanbagofdoom* 
I just want a quiet/silent high quality keyboard for gaming and typing. Now thats hard to find..

Filco Majestouch FKBN104M/EB. Full n-key rollover with no lag







. And it uses Cherry Brown switches, which aren't clicky. It might be a little bit loud at first while you still bottom out the keys, but in a week or so your fingers should start to get used to it and you won't bottom out as much.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Emmanuel* 
I'm fine typing on my notebook keyboard.

I used to be too.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *pow3rtr1p* 
The new Aluminum Mac boards are quiet, and a bit like a laptop.

And they are absolute garbage to type on! Yuck


----------



## 2Luke2

Been there and done that... grew up with plenty of them. You won't catch me dead with one of those ugly sobs in front of my rig lol...


----------



## laurie

Yeah mechanical boards are ugly as hell.


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SkoalFineCut* 
\\ is backslash









Backspace then.


----------



## timw4mail

Now if only keyboards didn't come with caps lock...


----------



## pow3rtr1p

I think I may end up with a Deck mini keyboard. It will match my mouse all pretty like, and it will be easy to see in the dark and will type all fancy. I may get a non-illuminated one, but the lights are nice sometimes.


----------



## laurie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
Now if only keyboards didn't come with caps lock...

The happy hacker has no Caps lock.
The Realforce has two keys for the Caps lock and ctr positions so you can swap them around.


----------



## xHassassin

Woo! I just got my Model M.
I've got to say, it's pretty heavy, but I've gotten used to it after awhile.








Sound is pretty loud though. Looks in perfect condition, except there are a few marks and some dust under the keys. The keyboard is also a little unbalanced, but it's worth it for only 26 shipped.








I'd take pics but I can't find my camera.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xHassassin*


Woo! I just got my Model M.
I've got to say, it's pretty heavy, but I've gotten used to it after awhile.








Sound is pretty loud though. Looks in perfect condition, except there are a few marks and some dust under the keys. The keyboard is also a little unbalanced, but it's worth it for only 26 shipped.








I'd take pics but I can't find my camera.


Unbalanced like, not sitting perfectly flat on the desk? Just grab it with one hand on each end and twist it back into shape! (you have to twist pretty hard, heh). After that you shouldn't have any trouble.

You can blame the shipping company for it


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Unbalanced like, not sitting perfectly flat on the desk? Just grab it with one hand on each end and twist it back into shape! (you have to twist pretty hard, heh). After that you shouldn't have any trouble.

You can blame the shipping company for it


















The casing is a bit knocked out too, won't fit together.
I thought FeDex was a good shipping company too...








Never had any damaged products by UPS lol, guess I go against the norm.
Although I suppose it could be the shipper's fault since he put the keyboard at the bottom of the box where nothing was protecting it from behind instead of in the middle.


----------



## PropNut

laurie said:


> Yeah mechanical boards are ugly as hell.
> QUOTE]
> 
> True, so I did this to my new (very old) Dell AT101W:


----------



## xHassassin

Nice case man.








You're a pro modder


----------



## laurie

Hehe, That looks lovely. Did you cut all the brass yourself? Looks very cool. I like that you have not gone the whole way and left the key caps, I cant imagine typing on little round metal ones like a lot of steam punk modders do is very comfortable.
Have you made the lettering brown though?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xHassassin*










The casing is a bit knocked out too, won't fit together.
I thought FeDex was a good shipping company too...








Never had any damaged products by UPS lol, guess I go against the norm.
Although I suppose it could be the shipper's fault since he put the keyboard at the bottom of the box where nothing was protecting it from behind instead of in the middle.


Hrm then yeah, it's probably his fault. But I know that I've bought three model Ms, one BNIB (still with the tape holding it to the styrofoam packaging) and two used ones - the two used ones came slightly warped but not damaged, and a quick twist fixed it. Since the BNIB one was perfect I pretty much attributed it to the molded styrofoam that was perfectly shaped to hold it during shipping - meaning the warping could be due either to handling, or temperature changes during shipping.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


True, so I did this to my new (very old) Dell AT101W:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...t/IMG_2644.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...t/IMG_2645.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...t/IMG_2649.jpg


Those stands look so familiar..... is this your site, or did you buy them from there? datamancer.net


----------



## PropNut

x: Thanks man.

Laurie, I agree about the uncomfortable round keys for typing, that is why I left the stock keys on here.

I did indeed do all the milling myself, I purchased a sheet of 1/4" brass plate from a local metal recylers (24"x36") and some barstock (also used). I have all the tooling in my shop so it was a pretty quick mod. I

am very happy with how it turned out, I am not loving the keyboard though. It is an excellent mechanical keyboard but I want something with more of a click, and more resistance. Just personal preference, I stopped by a used computer store that deals with alot of old business machines the other day, he had dozens of model "M"s sitting around, I love the "click" on those. I wonder if they have exactly the same footprint as this Dell?


----------



## PropNut

Manyak: Mr. Datamancer is an artist, but I got the idea from the same place that he did, another steampunk artist by the name of Jake von Slatt. Here is his website: http://steampunkworkshop.com/keyboard.shtml


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


x: Thanks man.

Laurie, I agree about the uncomfortable round keys for typing, that is why I left the stock keys on here.

I did indeed do all the milling myself, I purchased a sheet of 1/4" brass plate from a local metal recylers (24"x36") and some barstock (also used). I have all the tooling in my shop so it was a pretty quick mod. I

am very happy with how it turned out, I am not loving the keyboard though. It is an excellent mechanical keyboard but I want something with more of a click, and more resistance. Just personal preference, I stopped by a used computer store that deals with alot of old business machines the other day, he had dozens of model "M"s sitting around, I love the "click" on those. I wonder if they have exactly the same footprint as this Dell?


The regular, full size model Ms are bigger than the dells. The Unicomp Spacesaver or the Model M like it (I'll be dammed if I can remember the model number for it) should be pretty close though.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


Manyak: Mr. Datamancer is an artist, but I got the idea from the same place that he did, another steampunk artist by the name of Jake von Slatt. Here is his website: http://steampunkworkshop.com/keyboard.shtml


I saw that page too, but I assumed it was the same person (didn't bother looking at the names).

But yeah I agree with Laurie, I like that you didn't change the keycaps, those things look like they are horrible to type on.


----------



## CorporalAris

I'm going to get the Solidtek KB-6600ABU... Anything I should know?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CorporalAris* 
I'm going to get the Solidtek KB-6600ABU... Anything I should know?

Nothing important really. Simplified Alps white are tactile and clicky. That's about it









If you want some more info about them check here.


----------



## PropNut

Good information, especially if you speak Japanese








The translation is a bit confusing. Some excellent information there after sifting through it a bit though.


----------



## -Muggz-

Love my Razer Mirror Lycosa. I say buy what you want. It looks pretty darn slick with a 24" black glossy monitor and the Copperhead.

It was a good read however, and thanks for taking the time to post this information.


----------



## PropNut

My new keyboard!! 
Gotta love flea markets, found this for 10.00


----------



## laurie

Thats stunning! Shame about the condition. Or is it just dirt?


----------



## PropNut

Mostly dirt but alot of surface rust. It needs a good droid bath. I will keep it indoors and one of these days disassemble it for repairs, etc. It actually works though.


----------



## Manyak

Holy crap, that must be from the 1940s or something! Can it even type in lowercase letters? lol


----------



## PropNut

It is a 1924 LC Smith. Yes, it can do lower case, they had been capable of charracter shifts for a very long time before this. I was pretty happy to find it, lol.


----------



## xHassassin

Nice.








I've never used a typewriter lol.









Cleaned my Model M today, good bit of dust underneath it. Happy that the owner didn't eat at his desk though, at least there weren't rotting pieces of chicken or something.









Is there any other way to remove the bolts that connect the two dies together than getting a dedicated tool for it?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xHassassin* 
Nice.








I've never used a typewriter lol.









Cleaned my Model M today, good bit of dust underneath it. Happy that the owner didn't eat at his desk though, at least there weren't rotting pieces of chicken or something.









Is there any other way to remove the bolts that connect the two dies together than getting a dedicated tool for it?


Nope. It's just a simple hex screw, I think it's the same size as computer hex screws or maybe a tiny bit smaller.

Or you could cut it open with a saw


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Nope. It's just a simple hex screw, I think it's the same size as computer hex screws or maybe a tiny bit smaller.

Or you could cut it open with a saw










Yeah but it's like embedded 1.5" into the casing.








I don't feel like spending 5USD just so I can open a 25USD keyboard lol.


----------



## Sir Humpsalot

just picked up an IBM Model M on fleabay....


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sir Humpsalot* 
just picked up an IBM Model M on fleabay....









How much?








Hope you like it!


----------



## PropNut

Model M's are easier to come by than people think. There are several small business system new/used shops all over the country that have stacks of them. 10.00 - 20.00 each.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PropNut* 
Model M's are easier to come by than people think. There are several small business system new/used shops all over the country that have stacks of them. 10.00 - 20.00 each.

Yup. You can also check computer recycling centers if there are any by you, I just picked one up for free last week! It's missing a few keycaps but whatever. Free is free, heh.


----------



## Manyak

I've added a little section to the OP about certain features of keyboards, and some myths that are nothing but market hype to get some extra cash out of gamers.

I'll add info about all (well, most of) the switch types soon


----------



## CorporalAris

I got the ABS M1. I love it.


----------



## PropNut

I found a Das Pro III at a MicroCenter today for 103.99, didnt buy it as I am waiting until I find a backlit cherry blue (or brown I guess) but it was a very near thing. I will only be in D.C. for a few more days and that Das might just call to me before I leave.


----------



## xHassassin

Whoa, I'm going to DC on a school trip next week. Maybe I can sneak out and take a cab to MC.


----------



## PropNut

It is the Rockville location, there is only one there, a special order that was not picked up. Good luck.


----------



## xHassassin

Holy crap, that's like 20 miles away from DC.
D:


----------



## PropNut

Yeah, my wife is doing some research at the National Institute of Health so we are spending a week in Rockville. I am already pretty tired of the tourist thing. I miss my dual monitors, lol.


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


Yeah, my wife is doing some research at the National Institute of Health so we are spending a week in Rockville. I am already pretty tired of the tourist thing. I miss my dual monitors, lol.


Awww cmon tourism is fun.
Unless you're stuck with some hard-asses who only go on vacations to learn history.


----------



## PropNut

Too old and too married for fun


----------



## FieryCoD

This thread is so correct in many ways.

I see people raving on how awesome their G5 or Razer keyboard is.

I have a crappy OEM keyboard from Acer that uses PS/2, and I can game as well as a G5. In fact, I don't feel as though the layout of the G5 is any good.


----------



## Afrodisiac

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FieryCoD* 
This thread is so correct in many ways.

I see people raving on how awesome their G5 or Razer keyboard is.

I have a crappy OEM keyboard from Acer that uses PS/2, and I can game as well as a G5. In fact, I don't feel as though the layout of the G5 is any good.

This mini-rant would have been more credible if the G5 had been a keyboard.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xHassassin* 
Awww cmon tourism is fun.
Unless you're stuck with some hard-asses who only go on vacations to learn history.









Oh man, my mother is one of those. When I was a kid I used to _hate_ it when she dragged me along for "vacations" because they were a complete waste of time.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FieryCoD* 
This thread is so correct in many ways.

I see people raving on how awesome their G5 or Razer keyboard is.

I have a crappy OEM keyboard from Acer that uses PS/2, and I can game as well as a G5. In fact, I don't feel as though the layout of the G5 is any good.

I don't like the layout of the G15 either. The macro keys are too far away from WASD to be useful in fast-paced games (maybe some people manage it but I can't). If they had made the _whole keyboard_ fully programmable at the hardware level, like the old Gateway Anykey, it would be a different story.

Then again, AutoHotkey does the job pretty well too


----------



## Sir Humpsalot

Well I got my Model M from eBay yesterday and I'm putting it through its paces. I have to say it's nice than the mush-key onces I've been using. However, it's not *exactly* what I want. The springs are a little stiffer than I'd like, the clicky action is a little on the tinny side (though I like the sound, I think), and I wish the switch had a shorter throw (not as short as a laptop though.. I can't stand laptop keyboards). Sometimes I also get a bit of a tinny echo sound as I hit the keys, though I love the clicky goodness.

I'll probably keep it for awhile.. but any recommendations based on what I've said above?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sir Humpsalot*


Well I got my Model M from eBay yesterday and I'm putting it through its paces. I have to say it's nice than the mush-key onces I've been using. However, it's not *exactly* what I want. The springs are a little stiffer than I'd like, the clicky action is a little on the tinny side (though I like the sound, I think), and I wish the switch had a shorter throw (not as short as a laptop though.. I can't stand laptop keyboards). Sometimes I also get a bit of a tinny echo sound as I hit the keys, though I love the clicky goodness.

I'll probably keep it for awhile.. but any recommendations based on what I've said above?


You bet there are!

My first two recommendations are either SMK Monterey switches, or Cherry Blues.

Cherry Blues are _very_ light in comparison, and they register keypresses after 2mm of travel (4mm until bottoming out). Their sound is different though, its a bit more higher pitched than the Model M.

The SMK switches are somewhere in between Cherry Blues and the Buckling Springs of the Model M. The thing with these switches is that they feel crisper than both. It's like, their tactile bump is a bit sharper than the blues, but instead of catching your keypress afterward it lets go like BS does. They do have slightly more resistance than the Blues though.

You have plenty of options for Cherry Blues on keyboards, but only one option I know of for SMK switches. Just check the OP for the list!


----------



## VCheeZ

need advice.. is this model a full mechanical? 
http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-VINTAGE-37L0...QQcmdZViewItem


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *VCheeZ*


need advice.. is this model a full mechanical? 
http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-VINTAGE-37L0...QQcmdZViewItem


Nope







. The only black IBM BS boards were the M13's:


----------



## VCheeZ

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Nope







. The only black IBM BS boards were the M13's:











hence the "semi-clicky" caveat....sneaky buggers. Looking at this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Scorpius-M10-Mec...2em118Q2el1247


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *VCheeZ*


hence the "semi-clicky" caveat....sneaky buggers. Looking at this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Scorpius-M10-Mec...2em118Q2el1247


Yup, that's a good one


----------



## tombom

ahahaha, I'm using an ALPS keyboard at the moment. It's at my school. This thing is really old, but still feels really good to type on. However, I'd have to take this thing home to see how good it is gaming wise.


----------



## PropNut

The Alps is EXCELLENT for gaming, great tactile responce and travel. 300 hours of Left4Dead has convinced me, lol.


----------



## Blackhawk4

If G15s, razer keyboards (dont like theses anyways), saitek gaming keyboards etc are so bad then what keyboard would you reccomend? I play FPS games and WoW so a keyboard with macros would be nice, but if there really isnt a good one with extra macro keys then thats ok.


----------



## PropNut

THis is just my opinion, but...Modern gaming computers are not at all bad, they are rather good as a matter of fact. Many here, and I, believe that the mechanical keyboards are better due to thier tactile feel and reliability. I do, however, realize that they are sadly lacking in programable macro keys and multimedia keys. Can you not program (from within the games) macros for normal keys?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blackhawk4*


If G15s, razer keyboards (dont like theses anyways), saitek gaming keyboards etc are so bad then what keyboard would you reccomend? I play FPS games and WoW so a keyboard with macros would be nice, but if there really isnt a good one with extra macro keys then thats ok.


What propnut said!

And by the way, you can use Autohotkey to program any key or combination of keys on any keyboard. So you can get a ton more macros than just the 6 on the left of the G15 (to be more precise, you can get several million macros more).

With gaming as a your priority, these are the boards I'd recommend (in order of preference):
Filco Majestouch FKBN104M/EB (also available with the keyboard and numpad separate)
Any Deck keyboard
Steelseries 7G

The Filco boards have tactile feedback (Cherry Browns) and are very nice to type on, while the Decks and Steelseries use linear switches (Cherry Blacks) which only a few people like. But they all have n-key rollover and are _great_ for gaming.


----------



## Blackhawk4

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PropNut* 
THis is just my opinion, but...Modern gaming computers are not at all bad, they are rather good as a matter of fact. Many here, and I, believe that the mechanical keyboards are better due to thier tactile feel and reliability. I do, however, realize that they are sadly lacking in programable macro keys and multimedia keys. Can you not program (from within the games) macros for normal keys?

Yeah I can do from Wow, but I end up running out of keys








http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/News/Peri...px?NewsID=1378
found this a while ago, but have had no luck finding on. would this be good?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blackhawk4*


Yeah I can do from Wow, but I end up running out of keys








http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/News/Peri...px?NewsID=1378
found this a while ago, but have had no luck finding on. would this be good?


On paper it looks great. But I also have never seen it for sale anywhere and don't know anyone that has it.

If you do find it let me know though, I'd like to get one myself.


----------



## PropNut

I have been looking for a retailer for that one also...


----------



## KipH

I can get them here (Taiwan). If your willing to pay the shipping I can buy some. I would not mind one myself. Perhaps I can save a bit buying 3~5. Anyone?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


I can get them here (Taiwan). If your willing to pay the shipping I can buy some. I would not mind one myself. Perhaps I can save a bit buying 3~5. Anyone?


What would the total cost be?


----------



## Voidsplit

=/ i remember using keyboards at school like these, they all sounded like a spring hammering off when you pushed the keys.. why would you want that?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Voidsplit*


=/ i remember using keyboards at school like these, they all sounded like a spring hammering off when you pushed the keys.. why would you want that?


Because it's so much nicer to type on!

But not all mechanicals sound like that, there _are_ ones that are quiet (like Cherry Browns and Blacks).


----------



## KipH

My quick price is about $4,000.00 TWD or = $122.069 USD
Shipping will be the killer. It looks to be about $1000Nt for fast post (4 or 5 days) ($30us). or $15 for 22 days air/ground.

The gigabyte web sight has them as Cherry MX while everyone else is Blacks. How could we tell?


----------



## PropNut

That is out of my price range right now. I am looking at Digital SLR cameras.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
My quick price is about $4,000.00 TWD or = $122.069 USD
Shipping will be the killer. It looks to be about $1000Nt for fast post (4 or 5 days) ($30us). or $15 for 22 days air/ground.

The gigabyte web sight has them as Cherry MX while everyone else is Blacks. How could we tell?

I'll let you know in a week. I'm about to take a trip to Beirut and supposedly there's a shop there that sells them. If there isn't, or they overprice it, then I'll order one from you


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


I found a Das Pro III at a MicroCenter today for 103.99, didnt buy it as I am waiting until I find a backlit cherry blue (or brown I guess) but it was a very near thing. I will only be in D.C. for a few more days and that Das might just call to me before I leave.


Deck's website is down, but they mentioned something about "tactile" on the page...they might be coming out with a new product when they launch their new website.

That being said, I'm in the market for a high-end keyboard myself. I'm mainly considering the Filco 104ML/EB and Deck Legend Fire, but I'm unsure of which one I'd prefer. I guess I'd prefer less noise which leans me toward Deck more, but I keep hearing mixed reviews of their boards.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


The gigabyte web sight has them as Cherry MX while everyone else is Blacks. How could we tell?


Correct me if I'm wrong here, but don't Cherry MX switches come in Black, Blue, and Brown varieties? My guess is that it's both.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn*


Deck's website is down, but they mentioned something about "tactile" on the page...they might be coming out with a new product when they launch their new website.

That being said, I'm in the market for a high-end keyboard myself. I'm mainly considering the Filco 104ML/EB and Deck Legend Fire, but I'm unsure of which one I'd prefer. I guess I'd prefer less noise which leans me toward Deck more, but I keep hearing mixed reviews of their boards.


This week www.elitekeyboards.com is going to be carrying tenkeyless Blue Cherry Filcos with NKRO. If you care for quiet don't get it, but if you don't then get one because they feel better than the browns and blacks.

If you don't want the blues then you should probably wait and see what switches Deck is going to end up using and make your decision then. And by the way, the brows are pretty quiet as well. They do make a _little_ bit of noise, but the sound of bottoming out keys with blacks is still louder.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn*


Correct me if I'm wrong here, but don't Cherry MX switches come in Black, Blue, and Brown varieties? My guess is that it's both.


Correct. I guess the correct term would be "Cherry MX Black" to distinguish them from the ML and MY blacks, but the MX switches are by far the most common so we just skip the MX identification most of the time.


----------



## Blackhawk4

I'm still looking and gigabyte has yet to respond to my email. I want to try and find a good one off newegg since im buying all of my new rig from there. They dont have a huge selection other than the usual. Any specific one?


----------



## PropNut

They have the ABS mechanical keyboard right?


----------



## Blackhawk4

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


They have the ABS mechanical keyboard right?


yup.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...yboard&x=0&y=0

all the mechanical keyboards they got.


----------



## Manyak

Well if it's gotta be from newegg then either go with the ABS or 7G, depending on if you want a tactile board or a stiff linear board. In other words the ABS is better for typing and the 7G is better for gaming.

I'm actually getting one of those irocks boards this week - the US distributor is sending me one to write a review on. I know it's got cherry browns and it supposedly has 16-key rollover, though I have my doubts about that part since it's USB. Either way I'll be tearing it apart for sure.


----------



## Blackhawk4

Well I got good news and bad news. This is from gigabyte sherri lee sent it

"Hi Trae,

Thank you for your interest in GIGABYTE product.

Unfortunately, GK-K8000 is discontinue, we will come out with a newer model in September called GK-K8100.

Thanks!"


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blackhawk4* 
Well I got good news and bad news. This is from gigabyte sherri lee sent it

"Hi Trae,

Thank you for your interest in GIGABYTE product.

Unfortunately, GK-K8000 is discontinue, we will come out with a newer model in September called GK-K8100.

Thanks!"

lol wow, well I guess we'll have to wait and see what they come up with.

Edit: According to this article it's going to be rubber dome.....


----------



## el gappo

well its a gaming keyboard so it will have just wasd keys to cut down on production costs and then a few other keys programed with noob owned fail and age< (a suffix applicable to all gaming words lol )


----------



## Afrodisiac

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Well if it's gotta be from newegg then either go with the ABS or 7G, depending on if you want a tactile board or a stiff linear board. In other words the ABS is better for typing and the 7G is better for gaming.

I'm actually getting one of those irocks boards this week - the US distributor is sending me one to write a review on. I know it's got cherry browns and it supposedly has 16-key rollover, though I have my doubts about that part since it's USB. Either way I'll be tearing it apart for sure.

So is the 7G a decent board? $140 bucks is kind of wow, especially since it isn't one of the more professional mechanical keyboards (kind of like how non-audiophile brands like Razer charge more for their headsets than Senn HD555s).


----------



## Manyak

Yup, total FAIL on their part.

Maybe if they actually distributed their first keyboard it would have sold enough to keep going - instead of cutting down costs to profit more.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Afrodisiac* 
So is the 7G a decent board? $140 bucks is kind of wow, especially since it isn't one of the more professional mechanical keyboards (kind of like how non-audiophile brands like Razer charge more for their headsets than Senn HD555s).

Yeah it's actually a very good board - the only complaint I have with it is backspace/backslash/enter keys, and I'm not a big fan of Cherry Blacks. But both of those are just nitpicking, the quality of the board is just fine. It's well built and has true n-key rollover. And they gave it both PS/2 and USB capabilities without needing an adapter. So yeah, if you want Cherry Blacks it's a great board.

Also, I'm almost positive that this board, the ABS, the irocks, and the Filco's are all made by the same manufacturer, which is Costar. And the Filcos w/ blacks and NKRO are around the same price, around $10 cheaper or so. And those $10 are made up for with the wrist rest and audio pass-through.


----------



## Manyak

Check out the OP - I added a *ton* of more information!


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Check out the OP - I added a *ton* of more information!


More excellent information, great job.

I'm still torn between the Filco and the upcoming MX White Deck boards however. I'm kind of considering a modding project to get some different color LED keys for the WASD cluster, F-keys, and perhaps a few other commonly used groups so I'm leaning more towards the Deck, but the Filco's do look nice, and I think I'd really like Cherry MX Blue switches.


----------



## Afrodisiac

Hah, here I am asking you all these questions when all of them are covered in the OP :/

Silly me.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn*


More excellent information, great job.

I'm still torn between the Filco and the upcoming MX White Deck boards however. I'm kind of considering a modding project to get some different color LED keys for the WASD cluster, F-keys, and perhaps a few other commonly used groups so I'm leaning more towards the Deck, but the Filco's do look nice, and I think I'd really like Cherry MX Blue switches.


Here's an idea if you like: You can get one of the NKRO Filcos then order the keycaps you want lit up from Deck (they do sell them separately, some with custom logos too - bundled with LEDs). They are interchangeable!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Afrodisiac*


Hah, here I am asking you all these questions when all of them are covered in the OP :/

Silly me.


lol well I only put those keyboards in earlier today


----------



## Afrodisiac

So, have you used all the keyboards? Some of them, I would think not (like that $1250 one). Do you have ways of judging/calculating the scores you give? Or do you get review models sent to you?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Afrodisiac* 
So, have you used all the keyboards? Some of them, I would think not (like that $1250 one). Do you have ways of judging/calculating the scores you give?

Part of the score is a mix of personal preference for key switches and what the general consensus is from others - i.e., Cherry Blacks inherently get a high gaming score but low typing score.

Part of the score is based on technical specs. A board with full NKRO and a PS/2 connection gets a higher gaming score than a board with 3-key rollover and USB. Noise also is taken into consideration for the gaming score.

Part of the score is overall build quality. For example, even though the Scorpius M10 and Filco Majestouch both use Cherry Blues, the Filco still wins because of it's superior build. (And now that I think about it I should add the Das keyboard to the list just to point out how bad it is).

And while I haven't used every keyboard on that list, I _have_ used all the switch types there except Topre and Cherry Whites. But every person who has bought a Topre that I know of considers it one of the best, if not _the_ best switch they've typed on. And Cherry Whites are easy to predict what typing on them is like since they use the Brown Cherry tactile bump combined with the Black Cherry spring.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Here's an idea if you like: You can get one of the NKRO Filcos then order the keycaps you want lit up from Deck (they do sell them separately, some with custom logos too - bundled with LEDs). They are interchangeable!


Ah, they do sell them separately? Their site's been down for a few days, so it's hard to get a real feel for their products, which is part of the reason why I'm waiting. Still, this keyboard probably won't be purchased for another month and a half, so I have a bit more time to keep browsing and hopefully see what Deck comes up with.

I wish Filco made a Cherry MX Black keypad - I'd pick up the FKBN87MC/EB for regular typing and the MX Black keypad for gaming (or if I don't like it, just to have a bloody keypad).


----------



## PropNut

WHAT?!! Cherry Whites on Deck Keyboards?! When? How? Where? Huh?! Tell me more about Cherry Whites.....they sound perfect.


----------



## timw4mail

So, Manyak, do you know which color switches are which according to Cherry's designations of "Linear", "Click Tactile", "Tactile", "Alternate", "Tactile (ergonomic"?


----------



## PropNut

Wow, it appears that Deck bumped thier priced up again (on the blue), to 169.00

I really doubt I can show cause to pay that much for a keyboard (to my wife)


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


Wow, it appears that Deck bumped thier priced up again (on the blue), to 169.00

I really doubt I can show cause to pay that much for a keyboard (to my wife)


Point out how much money she's spent on dumb crap like candles that last for one bath.


----------



## PropNut

actually, my wife is extremely level-headed. She does not spend money on things like candles, etc....more like hog feed, heat lamps for piglets (new litters), but then we get to eat the pork later









She is very very accomedating to my many hobbies.....but she, like most, does not see the reason for extremely expensive keyboards.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


actually, my wife is extremely level-headed. She does not spend money on things like candles, etc....more like hog feed, heat lamps for piglets (new litters), but then we get to eat the pork later









She is very very accomedating to my many hobbies.....but she, like most, does not see the reason for extremely expensive keyboards.


Well, if it lasts 10x longer and costs only 2x as much...I don't see how its that expensive.


----------



## PropNut

She knows my changing desires all too well, lol. This year a blue backlit keyboard from Deck, next year a super duper keyboard (mechanical of course) with three mini LCD screens integrated into it. You get the idea. I have to be choosy. And I personally feel that 169.99 is too high of a price to pay (for me) for a gaming keyboard. Just a personal choice.


----------



## coffeejunky

Very nice guide. I do, however, have a question
I hope it hasn't been asked before.
I use a USB to PS/2 adapter so that I can use the Keyboard98 feature in the BIOS (turn on using keyboard key) using my native USB keyboard. As far as polling goes does the keyboard use USB type polling or PS/2 type?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *coffeejunky* 
Very nice guide. I do, however, have a question
I hope it hasn't been asked before.
I use a USB to PS/2 adapter so that I can use the Keyboard98 feature in the BIOS (turn on using keyboard key) using my native USB keyboard. As far as polling goes does the keyboard use USB type polling or PS/2 type?

My guess is that it still uses the USB polling, unless specifically designed to use PS/2 polling.

Although, for regular use, I don't see USB making that much of a difference compared to PS/2. In a game I would understand, but for regular typing, it doesn't seem like that would make much difference.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn* 
Ah, they do sell them separately? Their site's been down for a few days, so it's hard to get a real feel for their products, which is part of the reason why I'm waiting. Still, this keyboard probably won't be purchased for another month and a half, so I have a bit more time to keep browsing and hopefully see what Deck comes up with.

I wish Filco made a Cherry MX Black keypad - I'd pick up the FKBN87MC/EB for regular typing and the MX Black keypad for gaming (or if I don't like it, just to have a bloody keypad).

Well they sell custom keycaps separately for 100% sure - things like a skull and crossbones, a targeting cursor, I think a Linux penguin key. But I've heard of people getting a full keyset off of them.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PropNut* 
WHAT?!! Cherry Whites on Deck Keyboards?! When? How? Where? Huh?! Tell me more about Cherry Whites.....they sound perfect.

Cherry White = Tactile bump of Cherry Brown (which is a really light bump), with the stiffer springs out of cherry Blacks. They refer to them as Cherry Clear for some reason though.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
So, Manyak, do you know which color switches are which according to Cherry's designations of "Linear", "Click Tactile", "Tactile", "Alternate", "Tactile (ergonomic"?

Click Tactile = Blues
Tactile = Browns
Alternate = Black

I have no idea what the other two are, but I think Red is one of them.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *coffeejunky* 
Very nice guide. I do, however, have a question
I hope it hasn't been asked before.
I use a USB to PS/2 adapter so that I can use the Keyboard98 feature in the BIOS (turn on using keyboard key) using my native USB keyboard. As far as polling goes does the keyboard use USB type polling or PS/2 type?

If it's one of those small pass through adapters (no active circuitry) then it uses PS/2 signals. If you have some sort of converter with a chip inside, then it's still using USB.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PropNut* 
actually, my wife is extremely level-headed. She does not spend money on things like candles, etc....more like hog feed, heat lamps for piglets (new litters), but then we get to eat the pork later









She is very very accomedating to my many hobbies.....but she, like most, does not see the reason for extremely expensive keyboards.

Fair enough - my wife has learned (through trial and error) that it's best for me to get something high-end that I'll be happy with for a good while instead of something cheaper that I'll get sick of after a month.

Fortunately, I don't buy too much stuff too often.


----------



## dookieboy

So now, being the owner of the Apple Extended keyboard II and the IBM Model M, which is better?


----------



## xJumper

Ok so IBM Model M Buckling Springs are Tactile & Clicky and there is a Cherry MX switch that is also Tactile & Clicky.

Which one would you pick, pros & cons?

There both tactile and clicky but which one?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xJumper*


Ok so IBM Model M Buckling Springs are Tactile & Clicky and there is a Cherry MX switch that is also Tactile & Clicky.

Which one would you pick, pros & cons?

There both tactile and clicky but which one?


The Model M BS are stiffer than the Cherry Blues, so they require a bit more force to press. The tactile point is also a bit different - on Cherry Blues it's a bump, but on BS the spring just suddenly gives out.

Personally, I liked Model Ms more for the longest time, but now after fixing my typing style so that I'd actually use the proper fingers on keys I've been leaning towards lighter switches. If they had BS that were as light as the Cherry Blues I'd definitely go with that because of the feel of the tactile point, but they don't so Cherry Blues it is.


----------



## xJumper

Are the Model M's any good for gaming compared to something like the G15 (I currently have) I don't mind the noise from the clicky but the tactile bump or the distance I have to press the keys down might be a disadvantage.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xJumper* 
Are the Model M's any good for gaming compared to something like the G15 (I currently have) I don't mind the noise from the clicky but the tactile bump or the distance I have to press the keys down might be a disadvantage.

Other than being more tiring on the fingers due to the amount of force required in comparison, I really don't mind the Model M for gaming. Of course, I probably push too hard on those keys anyway...

Really, my advice is to find a way to try one out, and see how you like it. Hard to say until you try it.


----------



## xJumper

Is this keyboard any good overall?

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/...ProductID=2789

It's mechanical and uses the Cherry MX series but I don't know which ones, I don't mind it not having clicky because when you bottom out keys it makes a clicky like noise anyways but I sure hope there tactile.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xJumper* 
Is this keyboard any good overall?

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/...ProductID=2789

It's mechanical and uses the Cherry MX series but I don't know which ones, I don't mind it not having clicky because when you bottom out keys it makes a clicky like noise anyways but I sure hope there tactile.

Although it seems to be a good keyboard, it also seems to have been discontinued. It was talked a little while back, and seemed very difficult to find.


----------



## Blackhawk4

new version of it coming out this fall.


----------



## laurie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xJumper* 
Is this keyboard any good overall?

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/...ProductID=2789

It's mechanical and uses the Cherry MX series but I don't know which ones, I don't mind it not having clicky because when you bottom out keys it makes a clicky like noise anyways but I sure hope there tactile.

These are Cherry black switches. They are as smooth as you like. Totally non tactile.
You can get a lot of cheap cherry boards on ebay with blacks if you would like to try them out.

Oh and I find a model M very hard to game on. I preffer something that does not take so much effort to double tap. I guess it depends on what type of game you play but for UTIII its just too much work








HHKB pro2 is my choice for gaming at the moment. Its nice to have the mouse so close to my left hand.


----------



## xJumper

Anyway il get myself a Model M off ebay.

What year did they start using rubber domes, I wouldn't want to get one of those.

Also I have a PS/2 port on my mobo but I was thinking of going really old school with an AT port IBM Model M, if I get a AT to PS/2 adapter will these have any problem/neglect performance?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xJumper* 
Anyway il get myself a Model M off ebay.

What year did they start using rubber domes, I wouldn't want to get one of those.

Also I have a PS/2 port on my mobo but I was thinking of going really old school with an AT port IBM Model M, if I get a AT to PS/2 adapter will these have any problem/neglect performance?

No, if I remember correctly, the PS/2 connector is electrically compatible with the AT connector, so its just like an extender.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xJumper* 
What year did they start using rubber domes, I wouldn't want to get one of those.

It's not that they switched over to rubber domes, it's just that they made certain models with rubber domes in addition to the buckling spring ones. Just you make sure that you are getting a 1391401 model one and you'll be fine. It is considered that ones made before 1992 are the best, you can spot these ones as the IBM logo lettering is black as opposed to blue.

I recognise some people on this thread from Geekhack (particularily Laurie and Manyak). Good to see you folks spreading the good word and fighting the good fight


----------



## TestECull

Bump and a rep+ for the OP. I <3 clicking keyboards.

My preference is for the Model M. No substitutes. Gonna grab one soon before my Logitech dome-type dies. I've already spilled coke in the numpad, so it's gonna go soon enough.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
No, if I remember correctly, the PS/2 connector is electrically compatible with the AT connector, so its just like an extender.


Somewhere in my house I have an adaptor that takes AT and makes it PS/2. Bloody thing weighs a ton too.


----------



## beanbagofdoom

I found 5 brand new dell at102W (BEIGE) going for Â£5 each, I'm just checking with you guys to see if this is a good deal. uk layout too btw, I've heard thats hard to get. I game but I might just sell them on.


----------



## timw4mail

I found a keyboard that claims to have the "alternate" action switches:

http://cgi.ebay.com/I-ROCKS-KR-6230-...3%3A1|294%3A50

Anyone know anything about it?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanbagofdoom* 
I found 5 brand new dell at102W (BEIGE) going for Â£5 each, I'm just checking with you guys to see if this is a good deal. uk layout too btw, I've heard thats hard to get. I game but I might just sell them on.

That's a _great_ deal, I got mine refurbished for $12. And you shouldn't have any trouble gaming on them either, so try it out









Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
I found a keyboard that claims to have the "alternate" action switches:

http://cgi.ebay.com/I-ROCKS-KR-6230-...3%3A1|294%3A50

Anyone know anything about it?

Yup, the manufacturer actually asked me to write a review on it







. http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?t=6364

I just added it to the list of keyboards in the OP about an hour ago as well.


----------



## beanbagofdoom

Ok just picked up the dell at102w before and work and currently using at work







. It feels so light to type with. I'm guessing the switches are black alps? There are another 3 or 4 lying around at the place I bought them and I might just pick them all up. They were apprently taken out of plastics sleeves and are brand new, not a scratch, it is unused. I'll post some photos of it when I get home and get the rest tommorow.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanbagofdoom* 
Ok just picked up the dell at102w before and work and currently using at work







. It feels so light to type with. I'm guessing the switches are black alps? There are another 3 or 4 lying around at the place I bought them and I might just pick them all up. They were apprently taken out of plastics sleeves and are brand new, not a scratch, it is unused. I'll post some photos of it when I get home and get the rest tommorow.

Yup, it's got original black alps.









But hey instead of picking up more of them why not try out different switches as well? You can start on your journey of finding the perfect switch type for yourself


----------



## beanbagofdoom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Yup, it's got original black alps.









But hey instead of picking up more of them why not try out different switches as well? You can start on your journey of finding the perfect switch type for yourself









One for the old man, and another for maybe a paint job







. +Â£5 each aint bad, I'd realy like a mx black tbh it sounds right up my alley. I'll save a bit before going for a 7g.


----------



## [PWN]Schubie

are there any other keyboards that you are aware of that use the cherry ML switches?
im much more a fan of low travel keys


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[PWN]Schubie*


are there any other keyboards that you are aware of that use the cherry ML switches?
im much more a fan of low travel keys










Yup, the Cherry ML-4100. On ebay.


----------



## [PWN]Schubie

lol, shipping is twice the price of the keyboard for me









hmm, looking at new keyboards sucks, i wish stores carried some of these keyboards in store so i could try them before dropping money on one.

i like the layout of the deck 82 key but don't know if i would like the keys, and that's a lot of money to drop on a keyboard for me









also for a typer that hates the old model Ms where there was a big click to let you know that you hit the key what mx switch would be recomended?
blacks, whites, browns? im not experienced with any of them.

EDIT: for example i see on decks site they have some of their 105 keyboards and have them in 'tactile' and 'linear' what i am not familiar with the terminology and have no idea what one i would prefer


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[PWN]Schubie*


lol, shipping is twice the price of the keyboard for me









hmm, looking at new keyboards sucks, i wish stores carried some of these keyboards in store so i could try them before dropping money on one.

i like the layout of the deck 82 key but don't know if i would like the keys, and that's a lot of money to drop on a keyboard for me









also for a typer that hates the old model Ms where there was a big click to let you know that you hit the key what mx switch would be recomended?
blacks, whites, browns? im not experienced with any of them.

EDIT: for example i see on decks site they have some of their 105 keyboards and have them in 'tactile' and 'linear' what i am not familiar with the terminology and have no idea what one i would prefer


I think you are looking for the "brown" or "tactile" switches, they have the tactile bump, but don't have the "click".


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[PWN]Schubie*


lol, shipping is twice the price of the keyboard for me









hmm, looking at new keyboards sucks, i wish stores carried some of these keyboards in store so i could try them before dropping money on one.

i like the layout of the deck 82 key but don't know if i would like the keys, and that's a lot of money to drop on a keyboard for me









also for a typer that hates the old model Ms where there was a big click to let you know that you hit the key what mx switch would be recomended?
blacks, whites, browns? im not experienced with any of them.

EDIT: for example i see on decks site they have some of their 105 keyboards and have them in 'tactile' and 'linear' what i am not familiar with the terminology and have no idea what one i would prefer


Mechanical switches don't actually register keypresses all the way at the end of the keystroke, they register about halfway down (with Cherry MX switches, its 2mm to actuation and 4mm to bottoming out). Tactile switches have a little bump at that actuation point so that you are always sure of when you hit or missed a keystroke. Linear switches don't. With the Deck legend, the Linear model uses Cherry MX Black switches, and the Tactile model uses Cherry MX White.

To compare all the switches to Model Ms:

Blues are much lighter, have a precise tactile bump, and their click is not as loud
Browns are extremely light, have a soft more rounded tactile bump, and don't click
Blacks are a little bit stiffer, and have no tactile feedback or click
Whites have the stiffness of the blacks and the tactile bump of the browns, and don't click.

If you like the stiffness of the Model M keys but just don't want the click, go for Whites. If you want them to require a _lot_ less force to press go for the Browns.


----------



## beanbagofdoom

Ok just got home from work







here are some fresh pics of my at102w. I'm pick up the other 4 tomorrow morning.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *johnny9794* 
Would this be considered a mechanical kboard? needs a little clean up. have a few of these in the house.

Don't think so, can you pull off a keycap?


----------



## Shingetsu

need to try before i buy


----------



## Shingetsu

sorry another post, How are cherry blue switches for gaming>?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shingetsu*


sorry another post, How are cherry blue switches for gaming>?


Depends. If you like an amount of key resistance, you're probably not going to like it. They also "click".

I've no idea if that fourth image is a mechanical switch or not.


----------



## Shingetsu

well im liking the clickyness so far of these, i just need to get a feel for it.


----------



## [PWN]Schubie

man, tough decision, i was probably gonna pick up a logitech illuminated but now im second guessing that, another thing, how loud are most of these mechanical keys?
the deck keyboards more specifically.
i do most of my typing and gaming at night, and ill be in residence next year so quiet is also something i would consider


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[PWN]Schubie*










man, tough decision, i was probably gonna pick up a logitech illuminated but now im second guessing that, another thing, how loud are most of these mechanical keys?
the deck keyboards more specifically.
i do most of my typing and gaming at night, and ill be in residence next year so quiet is also something i would consider


The volume of the "click" depends largely on the keyswitch. Most of Decks use the Cherry black switches, which do not have a "click", just make sure to get the "linear" model.

Linear switches are not very good for typing, though, so keep that in mind. I don't know of any other companies that make mechanical backlit keyboards, so your choice is basically a "linear" switch (Cherry Black) or a "click/tactile" switch, labeled as "tactile" on the Deck website, these are Cherry White/Clear switches.


----------



## Ch13f121

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[PWN]Schubie*










man, tough decision, i was probably gonna pick up a logitech illuminated but now im second guessing that, another thing, how loud are most of these mechanical keys?
the deck keyboards more specifically.
i do most of my typing and gaming at night, and ill be in residence next year so quiet is also something i would consider


Decks don't have a 'click' like ibm clicky boards do. They actually don't make a sound until you bottom out the key itself.

So I guess if you hammer the hell out of your keys (like me) they're sorta loud. However, if you're a light typer you're fine.


----------



## beanbagofdoom

Mmm pulled one of my keys off.... switch pron... black alps in the flesh.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanbagofdoom* 
Ok just got home from work







here are some fresh pics of my at102w. I'm pick up the other 4 tomorrow morning.

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/1646/key1.jpg
http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/7214/key2.jpg
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/3553/key5.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9052/key3o.jpg
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/3495/key4.jpg

Nice!

All the white ones I've ever seen have yellowed and have relatively smooth keycaps, those look pretty sweet. Nicer than my black one which has yellow/gray letters.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *johnny9794* 
a keycap pulled. I see that its not kk.

Edit: Believe I have found one. 4th pic.

Yup, that's a mechanical alright. But I don't recognize the switch type. Do you actually have that keyboard? I'm really curious if you could take it apart and see what's printed on the switches themselves.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shingetsu* 
sorry another post, How are cherry blue switches for gaming>?

The main reason Cherry MX Blacks are usually used for gaming is because when you're really into a game you're going to pressing the keys pretty hard and bottoming out anyway, so the tactile bump doesn't mean squat and the stiffer spring absorbs some of the force so you don't bottom out as hard. The only thing with them is that because they are linear they aren't very nice to type on, so if you play games where you type a lot, like MMOs, you might not enjoy them. Cherry MX Whites, on the other hand, require the same amount of force but add a tactile bump, so they're good for both gaming and typing.

Blues don't really give you that benefit when it comes to games. But don't get me wrong, I'd still game on them before a G15 any day of the week. Just that typing is more comfortable on lighter switches while gaming is more comfortable on stiffer switches. So Whites and Blacks are better for it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *[PWN]Schubie* 








man, tough decision, i was probably gonna pick up a logitech illuminated but now im second guessing that, another thing, how loud are most of these mechanical keys?
the deck keyboards more specifically.
i do most of my typing and gaming at night, and ill be in residence next year so quiet is also something i would consider

The only _really loud_ ones are the Buckling Springs (Model M) and White Alps Copies. Cherry blues are pretty quiet in comparison, but still loud enough that you wouldn't want to sleep in the same room as someone typing on one. Cherry Browns, Whites (used on the Deck Tactile), and Blacks, and original Black Alps, are very quiet once you get used to not bottoming out (which will take just a few days). At that point the only noise they make is when you let go of the key and it springs back into place, which is about the same as any plain old keyboard.

Also, for some real silence you can get a board with Topre capacitive switches, which is basically a really high quality rubber dome with a spring underneath - so you don't have to bottom out and they don't wear out anywhere near as fast. They are pretty expensive, but everyone I know that bought one has no regrets.

Though I see where you're coming from when you said you like low-profile keys. Think of mechanical switches like low profile keys with extra travel after they actuate so that they kind of 'catch' your fingers instead of just letting you hit solid plastic. And you know how scissor switches make plain rubber domes feel mushy? That's pretty much what good mechanical switches do to scissor switches.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
The volume of the "click" depends largely on the keyswitch. Most of Decks use the Cherry black switches, which do not have a "click", just make sure to get the "linear" model.

Linear switches are not very good for typing, though, so keep that in mind. I don't know of any other companies that make mechanical backlit keyboards, so your choice is basically a "linear" switch (Cherry Black) or a "click/tactile" switch, labeled as "tactile" on the Deck website, these are Cherry White/Clear switches.

The Cherry White switches aren't clicky. They are identical to Browns but use the stiffer spring found in Blacks.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
The Cherry White switches aren't clicky. They are identical to Browns but use the stiffer spring found in Blacks.

Thanks for clearing that up, then


----------



## [PWN]Schubie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
The only _really loud_ ones are the Buckling Springs (Model M) and White Alps Copies. Cherry blues are pretty quiet in comparison, but still loud enough that you wouldn't want to sleep in the same room as someone typing on one. Cherry Browns, Whites (used on the Deck Tactile), and Blacks, and original Black Alps, are very quiet once you get used to not bottoming out (which will take just a few days). At that point the only noise they make is when you let go of the key and it springs back into place, which is about the same as any plain old keyboard.

Also, for some real silence you can get a board with Topre capacitive switches, which is basically a really high quality rubber dome with a spring underneath - so you don't have to bottom out and they don't wear out anywhere near as fast. They are pretty expensive, but everyone I know that bought one has no regrets.

Though I see where you're coming from when you said you like low-profile keys. Think of mechanical switches like low profile keys with extra travel after they actuate so that they kind of 'catch' your fingers instead of just letting you hit solid plastic. And you know how scissor switches make plain rubber domes feel mushy? That's pretty much what good mechanical switches do to scissor switches.

thanks again!
I think i know what im going to do, i know i like how the logitech illuminated feels and i can get one locally, so im going to pick one up soon, and in another month or two grab the deck 82 and see if i like it, if i do then ill have a two nice keyboards to switch between, if im not a fan of it (although im pretty sure i will be) ill off-load it on OCN










thanks for all the help guys!


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Yup, that's a mechanical alright. But I don't recognize the switch type. Do you actually have that keyboard? I'm really curious if you could take it apart and see what's printed on the switches themselves.


The 4th pic was a Compaq... Apparently before they switched over to rubber domes they liked using capactive switches. But the label that johnny9794 posted looked identical to the ones on Dell ATs and Quietkeys (also made in Malaysia). So I'm thinking it could also be an alps board and he just misidentified it. Or, it's also possible that it's a rubber dome that looks like a mechanical switch, like the Dell Quietkeys had.

EDIT: It has the same model number as a Dell Quietkey. So it's not a mechnical board, just a well built rubber dome.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *[PWN]Schubie*


thanks again!
I think i know what im going to do, i know i like how the logitech illuminated feels and i can get one locally, so im going to pick one up soon, and in another month or two grab the deck 82 and see if i like it, if i do then ill have a two nice keyboards to switch between, if im not a fan of it (although im pretty sure i will be) ill off-load it on OCN









thanks for all the help guys!


NP









Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


The 4th pic was a Compaq... Apparently before they switched over to rubber domes they liked using capactive switches. But the label that johnny9794 posted looked identical to the ones on Dell ATs and Quietkeys (also made in Malaysia). So I'm thinking it could also be an alps board and he just misidentified it. Or, it's also possible that it's a rubber dome that looks like a mechanical switch, like the Dell Quietkeys had.

EDIT: It has the same model number as a Dell Quietkey. So it's not a mechnical board, just a well built rubber dome.


Good catch on the model number


----------



## Manyak

Ok yeah those are definitely rubber domes. Just that instead of using a single sheet of domes they put them on keys individually.


----------



## Shingetsu

Gonna try to get filco 87 key with Cherry blues when i go to japan in july, if not, ill have to order one. Gotta get me some of those colored WASD keys too. lol Was getting tired of the lack of usefulness of my G15 anyway. My keyboard slides under my desk so i rarely ever use the applications on the lcd screen.

Really wish i could afford a Happy hacker though.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shingetsu* 
Gonna try to get filco 87 key with Cherry blues when i go to japan in july, if not, ill have to order one. Gotta get me some of those colored WASD keys too. lol Was getting tired of the lack of usefulness of my G15 anyway. My keyboard slides under my desk so i rarely ever use the applications on the lcd screen.

Really wish i could afford a Happy hacker though.

Don't we all?


----------



## .Sup

how do these work for gaming?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *.Sup*


how do these work for gaming?


Well, there are many choices:

-Black cherry switches: These are linear, and most similar to regular keyboards (Deck keyboards, and The SteelSeries 7G have these)

-Brown cherry switches: These are tactile, you feel a "bump" about half-way down each keystroke

-Blue cherry switches: These are tactile, and they "click" on each keystroke -- probably not the best choice for gaming

-White cherry switches: Combonation of Brown and Black switches, the "tactile" Deck keyboards have these.

-Buckling Springs - These have a rather "hard" keystroke, and have a "ping" on actuation. I'm not sure of any other keyboards that have them besides the ubiquious Model M, and the Unicomp equivalents. (I use one of these for gaming, but it can be tiring on the hands.

-Capacitive - These don't actually have a physical mechanism, the feel is completely dependent on the keyswitch design. The Happy Hacker Pro has these. Very light keystrokes, so probably not the best for games.


----------



## Wincet

I was looking through the list and I didn't see any keyboards with wrist rests. Personally I like wrist rests with my keyboards, so do you have any suggestions for some that might work well with those keyboards?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wincet* 
I was looking through the list and I didn't see any keyboards with wrist rests. Personally I like wrist rests with my keyboards, so do you have any suggestions for some that might work well with those keyboards?

The Steelseries 7G comes with a wrist rest!

But if you want to use some softer ones elitekeyboards.com has a nice leather one, and right now I'm using a Belkin Waverest that's pretty comfortable.

But really any wrist rest you find comfortable works fine.


----------



## MijnWraak

Okay, Manyak, you and your keyboard disciples (







) have convinced me to switch. I have never tried one yet, however, and have a few worries. Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I cant read through 354 posts.

Can that program that you linked to to make macros be used to make multimedia keys, also? I couldn't be able to stand not being able to change a song mid-game.

Hmm, actually that was the only problem I have. I'm still hesitant to make the switch. Will be posting a trade thread in the marketplace soon, once I get the strength to do it







.

Oh yeah, in most of the mechanical keyboards, how far does the key have to be held to be fully enabled? Like if I push all the way down, and I'm crouching for instance, and I let go a little bit, without it pushing back up, will it still be enabled? This has been a problem with my membrane keyboards, and was wondering if the problem persists in mechanical. I hate dying in games when my W key demands to require more force to continue moving forward.

Thanks.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MijnWraak*


Okay, Manyak, you and your keyboard disciples (







) have convinced me to switch. I have never tried one yet, however, and have a few worries. Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I cant read through 354 posts.

Can that program that you linked to to make macros be used to make multimedia keys, also? I couldn't be able to stand not being able to change a song mid-game.

Hmm, actually that was the only problem I have. I'm still hesitant to make the switch. Will be posting a trade thread in the marketplace soon, once I get the strength to do it







.

Oh yeah, in most of the mechanical keyboards, how far does the key have to be held to be fully enabled? Like if I push all the way down, and I'm crouching for instance, and I let go a little bit, without it pushing back up, will it still be enabled? This has been a problem with my membrane keyboards, and was wondering if the problem persists in mechanical. I hate dying in games when my W key demands to require more force to continue moving forward.

Thanks.


Yup, you can make multimedia keys with that program. You can even make a combination of keys multimedia keys (like ctrl+shift+right for next track for example). You can also use it to remap the Windows key and actually make useful while gaming.









As for the actuation, each switch is a bit different but to use Cherry MX switches as an example, the actuation point is around 2mm from the top with the total travel distance to bottoming out being 4mm. When going back upwards the release point is actually a tiny bit higher than 2mm, somewhere around 1.8mm from the top. So if you're pressing the keys all the way down to the bottom (which I'm sure you are while gaming) there's _no way_ it's letting go by accident. You'll have to allow the key to go over halfway back up for it to let go.

Also, if you get a tactile switch there's a definite bump when it actuates and lets go. Well, technically it's the tiniest bit off but still. There's no way to make a mistake with it.


----------



## MijnWraak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Yup, you can make multimedia keys with that program. You can even make a combination of keys multimedia keys (like ctrl+shift+right for next track for example). You can also use it to remap the Windows key and actually make useful while gaming.









As for the actuation, each switch is a bit different but to use Cherry MX switches as an example, the actuation point is around 2mm from the top with the total travel distance to bottoming out being 4mm. When going back upwards the release point is actually a tiny bit higher than 2mm, somewhere around 1.8mm from the top. So if you're pressing the keys all the way down to the bottom (which I'm sure you are while gaming) there's _no way_ it's letting go by accident. You'll have to allow the key to go over halfway back up for it to let go.

Also, if you get a tactile switch there's a definite bump when it actuates and lets go. Well, technically it's the tiniest bit off but still. There's no way to make a mistake with it.


Aright thanks a bunch. Now I just gotta bite the the bullet and get one. Might do it later, right now is pretty bad timing ($120 suit rental, for instance) so might have to wait till next month.


----------



## Voidsplit

Hmm, i really wanted one of the Deck boards (i need backlight) but for me to get one in canada they want 170 bucks for the board alone, thats nuts!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Voidsplit*


Hmm, i really wanted one of the Deck boards (i need backlight) but for me to get one in canada they want 170 bucks for the board alone, thats nuts!


It's the same in the states









However, you _can_ do the backlighting yourself relatively easy on any Cherry MX based board. Their switches all have a slot for a 3mm LED to fit. There are also custom keycaps for cherry switches that let you stick a piece of paper underneath a clear plastic layer so you can use your own labels. You can just get those, get a black piece of paper, and cut out the letters so that the light shines through.

It's a lot of work, but if you wanna save money that's the way to go!


----------



## PropNut

Deck absolutely priced themselves out of my consideration. I was looking forward to thier "tactile" boards but at 180.00 plus shipping that is too rich for me. I am sure they have very good reasons for the price increases but it makes it just that much harder to get gamers interested in thier excellent keyboards. Uninformed buyers will take one look and say "What Ever!", while informed buys (I do consider myself an informed buyer) will check thier budget and look elsewhere. I can get, and I already have some, excellent mechanical keyboards quite cheap on eaby, flea markets, pawnshops, etc. The only caveat that Deck has for me is backlighting.

Ok, rant off, sorry to take up your time.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PropNut* 
Deck absolutely priced themselves out of my consideration. I was looking forward to thier "tactile" boards but at 180.00 plus shipping that is too rich for me. I am sure they have very good reasons for the price increases but it makes it just that much harder to get gamers interested in thier excellent keyboards. Uninformed buyers will take one look and say "What Ever!", while informed buys (I do consider myself an informed buyer) will check thier budget and look elsewhere. I can get, and I already have some, excellent mechanical keyboards quite cheap on eaby, flea markets, pawnshops, etc. The only caveat that Deck has for me is backlighting.

Ok, rant off, sorry to take up your time.

Agreed.

I also think I'd actually _like_ the Cherry White switches. The only reason I don't like browns so much is because they are _too_ light for me.

But $180....It's the same price as a Tenkeyless Filco w/ Cherry Blues + separate number pad + leather wrist rest + acrylic roof. Or something like that.

If the Deck keyboards were actually fancy looking...maybe something like the Das casing but with backlit keys and a cleaner font, with lighting options for each individual key separately, onboard macro programming like the Anykey, and as many switches to choose from as Filco has, I'd buy it without hesitation.


----------



## PropNut

To be honest, if it were at the old price point (129.99) I too would buy it with no hesitation. But I really must draw a line with my spending. Too many toys I want! Besides, my steampunked Dell 101 (black) is pretty darned nice.


----------



## LETE

With regards to polling rates i just thought i would point out that that higher polling rates would have no effect on the CPU because the keyboard input from keyboard to PC is still handled by interrupts. The processor that is doing the polling is actually on the keyboard, probably some dinky 8086 or something.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LETE* 
With regards to polling rates i just thought i would point out that that higher polling rates would have no effect on the CPU because the keyboard input from keyboard to PC is still handled by interrupts. The processor that is doing the polling is actually on the keyboard, probably some dinky 8086 or something.

This only applies to PS/2 boards (where the board is actually the host). And interrupts generated from a USB keyboard are actually done through BIOS (and therefore the CPU) when 'Legacy USB' is enabled.

Unless you can show some


----------



## PropNut

That is interesting...lete joined specifically to comment on that...hmmmmm


----------



## LETE

Manyak -
I see you know what you're talking about, I've been humbled and educated.

PropNut -
I thought it would be important to mention since this was such a good resource for mechanical keyboard comparison. It was the first thing to come up when i googled "Mechanical Keyboard nkro". I haven't been into mechanical keyboards for very long, in fact i've never owned one, i tried to win a daskeyboard professional on ebay a caouple weeks ago but lost the auction by a dollar, the thing went for $41 total. After spending another week finding another substantial keyboard I realize i should have bid higher, these things are expensive. To add insult to injury i really need a new keyboard now because my f key is fussy all of a sudden.


----------



## PropNut

Lete, thanks for the explaination. Usually when someone chimes in for the first time (thier first post) it is someone trolling for an argument. I apologize if I insulted you with my post. 
I purchased a Dell 101 "clicky" keyboard on Ebay for 12.00, an excellent way to "get my feet wet" so to speak. For 50.00 you can pick up a Scopious M10 (cherry blue switches) if you have a bit more money. This would tide you over until you can afford the specific keyboard that you want.

David


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


Lete, thanks for the explaination. Usually when someone chimes in for the first time (thier first post) it is someone trolling for an argument. I apologize if I insulted you with my post. 
I purchased a Dell 101 "clicky" keyboard on Ebay for 12.00, an excellent way to "get my feet wet" so to speak. For 50.00 you can pick up a Scopious M10 (cherry blue switches) if you have a bit more money. This would tide you over until you can afford the specific keyboard that you want.

David


I can vouch for the iOne Scorpius M10 being a great keyboard, I'm using one now.


----------



## xJumper

What's with people buying the crazy priced Cherry MX switch keyboards? Stick with IBM's Buckling Spring, there Clicky & Tactile, the best of both words. I feel that Cherry MX switches are inferior to these even with there models that do both. The Buckling Spring just have a more sturdy authority feel to them.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xJumper* 
What's with people buying the crazy priced Cherry MX switch keyboards? Stick with IBM's Buckling Spring, there Clicky & Tactile, the best of both words. I feel that Cherry MX switches are inferior to these even with there models that do both. The Buckling Spring just have a more sturdy authority feel to them.

They are new. Some people don't like the noise that a Buckling spring keyboard can generated, some don't like the amount of force needed to actuate a key.
Keyboards are a very personal thing. You can't just say that the Cherry switches are a waste of money if you haven't tried them.

I just got two "new" old keyboards, one with some round SMK switches, and an IBM Model F. I'm liking this one with the SMK switches, they seem to be a nice comprimise between the sheer force of the Model M, and the smaller force required for Blue Cherry switches.

Feel free to use what you like best, but please don't say its the be-all, end-all truth. (And I apologize if you didn't mean it that way).


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xJumper*


What's with people buying the crazy priced Cherry MX switch keyboards? Stick with IBM's Buckling Spring, there Clicky & Tactile, the best of both words. I feel that Cherry MX switches are inferior to these even with there models that do both. The Buckling Spring just have a more sturdy authority feel to them.












One other thing with the Model Ms is that they aren't always consistent. I've got a 1390131, a heavily used -141, and a brand new unused -141. The 131 requires the most force out of the three, and the used 141 has certain keys where you can tell the spring wore out more than others because they are lighter and/or have a different actuation distance. Also, the letters on the 131 look like a Bold, slightly more rounded version of the letters on the 141's (closer to their Selectric's style lettering, even though they are all the same Helvetica font).

But the coolest thing is that Unicomp sells replacement springs so you can fully restore any M you want (and it ends up feeling as light as their own keyboards, about 65cN force needed instead of 75cN, which is nice IMO).

Speaking of which, that reminds me that I've been meaning to order a set lol.


----------



## Jnesses

what would a RT101+ be?

i have an old one from a compuadd pc


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jnesses*


what would a RT101+ be?

i have an old one from a compuadd pc


No idea, pop off a keycap and take a picture of whats underneath!


----------



## getllamasfast

If I'm used to playing games on a G15, do you think that switching to a Filco with cherry blues will degrade my performance? I love the sound of the blues, but I'm worried since you guys are saying they aren't too good for games...


----------



## Mootsfox

My Dell clicky and G15.










I can't stand the Dell for gaming, but it is nicer to type lots of stuff on.


----------



## xJumper

I game on my IBM, my G15 just feels mushy now.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *getllamasfast* 
If I'm used to playing games on a G15, do you think that switching to a Filco with cherry blues will degrade my performance? I love the sound of the blues, but I'm worried since you guys are saying they aren't too good for games...

Its a matter of trying it, and seeing. Really its not possible to judge if it will work for you or not. Personally, I find Model M's a lot easier to use for both gaming and typing, but I also haven't really had the opportunity to game on my Scorpius M10 (Which also has blue Cherry switches).


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *getllamasfast*


If I'm used to playing games on a G15, do you think that switching to a Filco with cherry blues will degrade my performance? I love the sound of the blues, but I'm worried since you guys are saying they aren't too good for games...


Well since you're interested in it, why not buy the Filco and _then_ decide if you want to sell you G15? You _can_ always have more than one keyboard hooked up, and with the G15 being on USB it's easily hot-pluggable.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mootsfox*


My Dell clicky and G15.










I can't stand the Dell for gaming, but it is nicer to type lots of stuff on.


The AT101? Yeah I hated it for gaming too. Cherry Blues were pretty good though, never had a problem with them in games.


----------



## mongoola

Have you ever used a Zeos keyboard? They are still the best mechanical keyboard I have ever used. I still have a couple of them floating around, but would be interested in getting a more modern version (104 key versus 101). Does anyone know what kind of switches they used?


----------



## Manyak

Check this site to see if the model number matches.

If not, just post a pic and we'll identify them for you!


----------



## Mootsfox

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Well since you're interested in it, why not buy the Filco and _then_ decide if you want to sell you G15? You _can_ always have more than one keyboard hooked up, and with the G15 being on USB it's easily hot-pluggable.

The AT101? Yeah I hated it for gaming too. Cherry Blues were pretty good though, never had a problem with them in games.

I'm not sure what model it is. It is PS/2, and requires an active PS/2->USB adapter.


----------



## arekieh

i still dont full get it. whats so good about a model m? and why should i get one over my logi wave?


----------



## bebster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arekieh* 
i still dont full get it. whats so good about a model m? and why should i get one over my logi wave?

It isn't about any special features, it is about HOW the Model M is put together. It is made using a different technology to 99% of modern keyboards. They use small rubber domes under the keys to register a key press, while the Model M uses buckling springs which actuate at a certain point - making it MUCH better to type on.

I type at ~75 WPM, and my speed did not improve at all when I bought a Model M, however my accuracy went from 12 mistakes per minute average to 1.

The Logitech wave has a fancy shape and some funny media keys, the Model M is considerably better to type on - and is virtually indestructible. It is a pretty easy choice in my eyes.


----------



## arekieh

i just want to find one to try out before dropping that much cash on a keyboard that looks like it should be in the trash


----------



## Mootsfox

Quote:



Originally Posted by *arekieh*


i just want to find one to try out before dropping that much cash on a keyboard that looks like it should be in the trash










That's where I found mine


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mootsfox*


That's where I found mine










You know what they say...


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arekieh* 
i just want to find one to try out before dropping that much cash on a keyboard that looks like it should be in the trash









If you've got a computer recycling center near you chances are they'll have one lying around. Or if you watch ebay closely you can get one for around $20 once in a while, sometimes less.


----------



## arekieh

ya, no comp recycling places around here, ill just wait till i get a good deal on ebay as you said








thanks


----------



## judasdoh

theres this place by my house where i can get clicky model m's for $10



















sorry fer big pics


----------



## Manyak

judasdoh, they don't happen to have any Model M Minis do they? As in the models without the number pad?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
judasdoh, they don't happen to have any Model M Minis do they? As in the models without the number pad?

Model M's are nice, but have you tried a Model F? Very clicky, and I'm loving the typing feel. The only disadvantages are the rarity, key layout, and required adapter... oh, and it doesn't have the home row indicators on F and J.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


Model M's are nice, but have you tried a Model F? Very clicky, and I'm loving the typing feel. The only disadvantages are the rarity, key layout, and required adapter... oh, and it doesn't have the home row indicators on F and J.


Nope, actually because of the two reasons you just said lol. I've never managed to find one that isn't XT (and the adapter for XT->AT is stupidly expensive), and because of the layout I wouldn't use it much anyway.


----------



## HardwaterH4ck3r

I've been drooling over one of the Happy Hacking Pros for a couple years, but I can't justify the price, or justify not having function keys....

I want a mechanical keyboard something fierce, but my wife won't let me replace my 5 year old keyboard with a $50 keyboard, let alone one that costs more than $100.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Nope, actually because of the two reasons you just said lol. I've never managed to find one that isn't XT (and the adapter for XT->AT is stupidly expensive), and because of the layout I wouldn't use it much anyway.


The way to find them is to look for "IBM AT Keyboard", as they don't actually say Model F on them. Even with the layout quirks, I think it was worth the $93 I spent on it. The thing's in pristine condition.

Quote:



I want a mechanical keyboard something fierce, but my wife won't let me replace my 5 year old keyboard with a $50 keyboard, let alone one that costs more than $100.


Then try to find an older one on eBay. Mechanical keyboards don't wear the way the membrane/rubber dome keyboards do.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


The way to find them is to look for "IBM AT Keyboard", as they don't actually say Model F on them. Even with the layout quirks, I think it was worth the $93 I spent on it. The thing's in pristine condition.


Alright I'll try and find one for cheap just to try, gotta hold off on expensive keyboards for a little while.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


Then try to find an older one on eBay. Mechanical keyboards don't wear the way the membrane/rubber dome keyboards do.


This. And if you get a Model M, no matter how run down it is you can always get new springs for the keys from Unicomp for just a few bucks (I think they charge something like $5 for a complete set). So you end up with what at least _feels_ brand new.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Alright I'll try and find one for cheap just to try, gotta hold off on expensive keyboards for a little while.


Unfortunately, they are still rather difficult to find. Good luck on finding one


----------



## judasdoh

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
judasdoh, they don't happen to have any Model M Minis do they? As in the models without the number pad?

ill go and look for you tomorrow









maybe ill do some freebie stuff with them. pay for shipping?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *judasdoh*


pay for shipping?


The Model M weighs 5 pounds, so its not exactly cheap shipping...


----------



## LETE

My "J" key is starting to go, i accidentally dropped some brown sugar between the keys. What can be said about the cherry brand keyboards? I noticed allot of them come with magnetic strip card readers. Are they any good? Aren't they the company that started the cherry key switches? I noticed that they are pretty cheap on ebay, you can get two or 14 dollars.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LETE*


My "J" key is starting to go, i accidentally dropped some brown sugar between the keys. What can be said about the cherry brand keyboards? I noticed allot of them come with magnetic strip card readers. Are they any good? Aren't they the company that started the cherry key switches? I noticed that they are pretty cheap on ebay, you can get two or 14 dollars.


Well, just because its a Cherry keyboard doesn't mean its a good keyboard. Yes, they make the Cherry keyswitches.


----------



## Sun

You people are convincing.

I have always used my rubber domes, and have never learned to touch type. I am currently using a Saitek.

I want a quiet keyboard, so the buckling spring is out, and so are Cherry Blues. I am having difficulty choosing between Blacks and Browns.

These are the [Filcos] I am looking at:

Brown
Brown NKRO

Black
Black NKRO

Now, firstly, I understand what the NKRO option offers, but how many keys are supported on the non-NKRO boards? (I find it interesting that these are USB native, can someone explain why they are not PS/2 native?)

Next, which switch is right for me? I am a heavy gamer, and use my keyboard for typing a good bit, and I have recently started to learn how to touch-type. My instincts tell me to get the Brown model simply to get a well rounded option. The blacks seem too specialized, and it has been pointed put that the blacks make typing less pleasing. However, will it be that bad coming from a rubber dome?

Advise me, please.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sun*


You people are convincing.

I have always used my rubber domes, and have never learned to touch type. I am currently using a Saitek.

I want a quiet keyboard, so the buckling spring is out, and so are Cherry Blues. I am having difficulty choosing between Blacks and Browns.

These are the [Filcos] I am looking at:

Brown
Brown NKRO

Black
Black NKRO

Now, firstly, I understand what the NKRO option offers, but how many keys are supported on the non-NKRO boards? (I find it interesting that these are USB native, can someone explain why they are not PS/2 native?)

Next, which switch is right for me? I am a heavy gamer, and use my keyboard for typing a good bit, and I have recently started to learn how to touch-type. My instincts tell me to get the Brown model simply to get a well rounded option. The blacks seem too specialized, and it has been pointed put that the blacks make typing less pleasing. However, will it be that bad coming from a rubber dome?

Advise me, please.










Well, other than the bottoming out you are bound to do at first, I'd say the brown switches are the best option for you. Or, if you can find them, white Cherry switches, as these aren't clicky, but are tactile, and have more resistance than the brown switches. The only keyboard I know of that has the white switches is the rather expensive Deck.

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/product...products_id=96

This keyboard has a slight incidental click, but it is not nearly as pronounced as on the Cherry blue or buckling springs keyboards.

I do not recommend the black Cherry switches, as they are probably just about as bad, or worse, than your existing rubber dome keyboard.

As far as N-key rollover, I've never had an issue, as most of the keys you use for gaming are separate from the rest of the main letter keys, and don't tend to have the rollover problems.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *judasdoh* 
ill go and look for you tomorrow









maybe ill do some freebie stuff with them. pay for shipping?

You bet I'll pay for shipping, that would be awesome









Quote:


Originally Posted by *LETE* 
My "J" key is starting to go, i accidentally dropped some brown sugar between the keys. What can be said about the cherry brand keyboards? I noticed allot of them come with magnetic strip card readers. Are they any good? Aren't they the company that started the cherry key switches? I noticed that they are pretty cheap on ebay, you can get two or 14 dollars.

In general, they are great. The G80 series are all MX switches, so look through those (just watch out for the type you want).

The only thing that really varies between similar boards is the type of printing used for the lettering. Some of them use dot matrix Laser printing (ugly as hell!), some use silk screening (looks nice but wears out), some use dye sublimination (lasts, a little fuzzy around the edges), and some use double-shot molding (perfection).

Here's a guide to Cherry model numbers. Their numbering system is a bit confusing, but even if you can't figure out what models to search for at least you'll be able to identify the model you're looking at.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sun* 
You people are convincing.

I have always used my rubber domes, and have never learned to touch type. I am currently using a Saitek.

I want a quiet keyboard, so the buckling spring is out, and so are Cherry Blues. I am having difficulty choosing between Blacks and Browns.

These are the [Filcos] I am looking at:

Brown
Brown NKRO

Black
Black NKRO

Now, firstly, I understand what the NKRO option offers, but how many keys are supported on the non-NKRO boards? (I find it interesting that these are USB native, can someone explain why they are not PS/2 native?)

Next, which switch is right for me? I am a heavy gamer, and use my keyboard for typing a good bit, and I have recently started to learn how to touch-type. My instincts tell me to get the Brown model simply to get a well rounded option. The blacks seem too specialized, and it has been pointed put that the blacks make typing less pleasing. However, will it be that bad coming from a rubber dome?

Advise me, please.









There's no real number to give you for non-NKRO boards. Depending on the combination of keys you press it could be anywhere from 2 to 20. I don't think you'll have any trouble with the WASD because even the standard IBM matrix can handle it, but I'd still say that the few extra bucks is worth it _just_ to be sure that it works no matter what game you're playing. After all, the keyboard _will_ last practically forever, so you never know what combination you might run in to.

But I agree with timw, you're probably best off going with Cherry Browns or Whites. The thing is, since you're learning to touch type right now, starting off with a light switch like the Browns will be a big help, since you aren't already in the habit of pounding on the keys (and lighter typing = faster with less fatigue). But if you start on a stiffer switch, or even rubber domes, you'll start off with needing the extra force and it'll be hard to loosen up later.

But if you think you'd like the keys stiffer for gaming (since you'll be pounding the keys and bottoming out _anyway_ and the stiffer switch absorbs some of that), then Cherry Whites are your best bet. But that's the only difference between the two switches and since you've got a chance to start typing light I think you should go for that, not the Whites.


----------



## judasdoh

hey manyak, he didnt have any model m's without the number pad. sorry.

but i'd like to thank you for this thread, my friend traded me his 22inch monitor for my g15 and i bought the model m









its the best thing ever.


----------



## Halciet

Well, my Filco just got here about an hour ago, and thus far I really like it. I'm bottoming out a lot, of course, but that will change as I adjust to the keyboard.

Main differences I've noticed thus far:

-Keyboard is way more solid/stable than my MS Natural 4000. Keys always register, the feedback is nice, and the keys don't feel unstable/mushy like the old board.

-The board itself is WAY more compact than I thought it would be; it's going to take some getting used to the new layout, after years of the natural.

-I got the Cherry Brown switches, and I was initially worried I would regret it, wanting the Blues instead. I'm pleased to say that I'm very satisfied with these switches. The tactile feedback is there, and it still makes just enough noise to satisfy me without being ridiculously overbearing.

The only NEGATIVE thing I can comment on thus far, is that the cord is rather short. I can see needing a USB extension at some point if I get a new desk or rearrange my office any.

Other than that, it's an amazing feeling keyboard.. Looks nice, it's simple and solid; just a quality product all-around. It just feels...I dunno...dependable?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Halciet* 
Well, my Filco just got here about an hour ago, and thus far I really like it. I'm bottoming out a lot, of course, but that will change as I adjust to the keyboard.

Main differences I've noticed thus far:

-Keyboard is way more solid/stable than my MS Natural 4000. Keys always register, the feedback is nice, and the keys don't feel unstable/mushy like the old board.

This is one of the primary advantages to mechanical keyboards







Even thought the Model M's can be slightly inconsistent, they still work. Springs are a lot nicer to type on than domes, too! (Mechanical switches generally use leaf springs, except for the buckling springs)

Quote:

-I got the Cherry Brown switches, and I was initially worried I would regret it, wanting the Blues instead. I'm pleased to say that I'm very satisfied with these switches. The tactile feedback is there, and it still makes just enough noise to satisfy me without being ridiculously overbearing.
I've got a board with the blue switches, and it doesn't seem noisy to me, so maybe you just really notice the difference in sound? (Then again I heard the Filco with the blue switches is noisier than my iOne Scorpius M10.)

Quote:

Other than that, it's an amazing feeling keyboard.. Looks nice, it's simple and solid; just a quality product all-around. It just feels...I dunno...dependable?
It should be







I have four different mechanical boards, and only one of them is new. These keyboards last, and last well.


----------



## Halciet

Not THAT sensitive to noise, considering I've got this machine sitting here with 12 case fans in it, haha. But still, it produces more noise than my old keyboard. Not in a bad way; it's kind've pleasant, and I presume it will fade out a bit more once I stop bottoming out so bad.

Other things:

I kind've wish I'd ordered the wrist rest with it when I ordered it. It was hard to justify 40 bucks for a wrist pad from them though, haha.

I really appreciate the fact that it's just a KEYBOARD. No multimedia keys that barely work, no drivers to install. It just works. That's really nice.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *judasdoh* 
hey manyak, he didnt have any model m's without the number pad. sorry.

but i'd like to thank you for this thread, my friend traded me his 22inch monitor for my g15 and i bought the model m









its the best thing ever.










Haha that's awesome! Can't get a much better deal than that









But oh well, too bad they didn't have any. But keep your eyes open, those sell for _stupid_ amounts on ebay for no good reason, even if you don't care to have it you can make some good cash.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Halciet* 
Well, my Filco just got here about an hour ago, and thus far I really like it. I'm bottoming out a lot, of course, but that will change as I adjust to the keyboard.

Main differences I've noticed thus far:

-Keyboard is way more solid/stable than my MS Natural 4000. Keys always register, the feedback is nice, and the keys don't feel unstable/mushy like the old board.

-The board itself is WAY more compact than I thought it would be; it's going to take some getting used to the new layout, after years of the natural.

-I got the Cherry Brown switches, and I was initially worried I would regret it, wanting the Blues instead. I'm pleased to say that I'm very satisfied with these switches. The tactile feedback is there, and it still makes just enough noise to satisfy me without being ridiculously overbearing.

The only NEGATIVE thing I can comment on thus far, is that the cord is rather short. I can see needing a USB extension at some point if I get a new desk or rearrange my office any.

Other than that, it's an amazing feeling keyboard.. Looks nice, it's simple and solid; just a quality product all-around. It just feels...I dunno...dependable?

Ah yeah the cord is kind of short I guess, but yeah that's no big deal since there are a million super cheap ways around it (use an extension like you said, or a USB hub or something).

But I'm glad you like it, you picked a good one for sure


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Halciet*


I really appreciate the fact that it's just a KEYBOARD. No multimedia keys that barely work, no drivers to install. It just works. That's really nice.


I agree. I bet most people don't even use those kinds of things.


----------



## Halciet

I certainly have a whole lot more desk space now. I mean, a TON more desk space.

I really can't get over how solid this thing is. It has some SERIOUS rubber feet on it, it doesn't move whatsoever.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Halciet*


I certainly have a whole lot more desk space now. I mean, a TON more desk space.

I really can't get over how solid this thing is. It has some SERIOUS rubber feet on it, it doesn't move whatsoever.


I can't speak for the Filco, but you haven't felt a solid keyboard until you've felt a Model F. Or, if you can't find one, a Model M is pretty solid too. (The older ones especially).


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Halciet*


I certainly have a whole lot more desk space now. I mean, a TON more desk space.

I really can't get over how solid this thing is. It has some SERIOUS rubber feet on it, it doesn't move whatsoever.


It's not just the feet, it's the weight too. There's a solid metal plate and giant PCB inside that keyboard keeping it from warping or moving. None of those flimsy membrane sheets


----------



## getllamasfast

My Filco Otaku just arrived and there is no comparison between it and my old G15.
This has to be the most comfortable keyboard I've ever used and with the blue cherries it has that wonderful "click clack" sound. I just can't praise it enough and my only gripe about it is, as Halciet said, that the cord is just too short. Besides that this keyboard is FREAKING AMAZING!!!
I'll update with pics later


----------



## Halciet

I picked up one of those Fellowes split palm wrist rests, with the memory foam and microban padding. Makes typing on this thing a bit more comfortable for people who are used to ergonomic boards.

I do miss the ergonomic layout somewhat, but I like the keyboard response a lot better. I reckon I will be sticking with this thing now


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *getllamasfast* 






















My Filco Otaku just arrived and there is no comparison between it and my old G15.
This has to be the most comfortable keyboard I've ever used and with the blue cherries it has that wonderful "click clack" sound. I just can't praise it enough and my only gripe about it is, as Halciet said, that the cord is just too short. Besides that this keyboard is FREAKING AMAZING!!!
I'll update with pics later









Welcome to the fold









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Halciet* 
I picked up one of those Fellowes split palm wrist rests, with the memory foam and microban padding. Makes typing on this thing a bit more comfortable for people who are used to ergonomic boards.

I do miss the ergonomic layout somewhat, but I like the keyboard response a lot better. I reckon I will be sticking with this thing now









There you go









By the way, there are a couple of mechanical boards that are split in half like the MS, some of which you can rotate and bend any way you like. Let me see if I can dig one up for you...

Edit:
Kinesis Advantage









Apple Adjustable
[URL=http:/museo/pictures/donazioni/keyb_adjustable.jpg%5B/IMG]http://www.******************/museo/pictures/donazioni/keyb_adjustable.jpg[/IMG[/URL]]

[URL=http://www.maltron.com/maltron-keyboards.html]Maltron Keyboards[/URL]
[IMG alt=""]http://www.maltron.com/images/keyboards/maltron-usb-dual-l90-uk-pc-qwerty-1-400.jpg

IBM M15


----------



## MijnWraak

Whats with these 122 key Model M's? Anything specifically special with them? I could see the extra buttons being useful for non-existant media keys. I've seen em at the top and bottom of expensive list on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/Unicomp-Model-M-...3%3A2|294%3A50

also, is this any good? http://cgi.ebay.com/Cherry-MX-1800-K...3%3A1|294%3A50 edit: nvm, you say cherry mx black are stiff and springy. Doesnt sound my type









sorry for questions. Really interested in what I can get for $50


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MijnWraak* 
Whats with these 122 key Model M's? Anything specifically special with them? I could see the extra buttons being useful for non-existant media keys. I've seen em at the top and bottom of expensive list on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/Unicomp-Model-M-...3%3A2|294%3A50

also, is this any good? http://cgi.ebay.com/Cherry-MX-1800-K...3%3A1|294%3A50 edit: nvm, you say cherry mx black are stiff and springy. Doesnt sound my type









sorry for questions. Really interested in what I can get for $50









There's nothing special with those model Ms, they just have extra keys that were used back in the days of the S360 terminals and what not. If you're looking to get one, make 100% sure it has a PS/2 connector. Some of them have the old RJ (telephone/ethernet) style plug that plugs into those old terminals, and those models won't work on a PC. And yes you'll be able to program the extra keys with Autohotkey to do whatever you want.

For $50 you can get practially any older keyboard on ebay except the rare ones (like the Cherry Ergo Plus or Model M Mini). For new keyboards you're limited to the Scorpius M10 and ABS M1 (see first post for links).

Do you have an idea of what type of switches you'd like at least?


----------



## gonX

Any suggestions on a keyboard that is fairly common and has Cherry MX blue switches or buckling springs? Been looking at the Scorpius M10 but I can only seem to find an overseas provider for it


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
Any suggestions on a keyboard that is fairly common and has Cherry MX blue switches or buckling springs? Been looking at the Scorpius M10 but I can only seem to find an overseas provider for it









elitekeyboards.com ships their boards to europe, but the boards cost double what the Scorpius does









For BS, did you try ebay.co.uk? They've got several Model M's listed.

You can also ask for those boards in the marketplace on www.geekhack.org. There are plenty of people there in Europe that might have what you're looking for, and I'm sure most of the American guys there won't mind overseas shipping either.


----------



## MijnWraak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


There's nothing special with those model Ms, they just have extra keys that were used back in the days of the S360 terminals and what not. If you're looking to get one, make 100% sure it has a PS/2 connector. Some of them have the old RJ (telephone/ethernet) style plug that plugs into those old terminals, and those models won't work on a PC. And yes you'll be able to program the extra keys with Autohotkey to do whatever you want.

For $50 you can get practially any older keyboard on ebay except the rare ones (like the Cherry Ergo Plus or Model M Mini). For new keyboards you're limited to the Scorpius M10 and ABS M1 (see first post for links).

Do you have an idea of what type of switches you'd like at least?


Hmm, I'm actually wondering if I can trying to increase my budget to. Was looking to get those Cherry blue's, sound perfect for what I need. Was looking at this, actually







. Quite far from $50 but if it'll last 15 years, why not?


----------



## judasdoh

we should make a clicky keyboard club


----------



## PropNut

Judasdoh: Indeed we should. What part of Michigan are you in?


----------



## judasdoh

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


Judasdoh: Indeed we should. What part of Michigan are you in?


grand rapidsss







you?

http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ml#post6660969


----------



## PropNut

Between Howard City, Sand Lake and Greenville (Triangulate)


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *judasdoh*


we should make a clicky keyboard club










Some people like non-clicky mechanical keyboards, too.


----------



## judasdoh

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


Some people like non-clicky mechanical keyboards, too.


i have failed you all...









sorry, can i change titles of threads?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MijnWraak*


Hmm, I'm actually wondering if I can trying to increase my budget to. Was looking to get those Cherry blue's, sound perfect for what I need. Was looking at this, actually







. Quite far from $50 but if it'll last 15 years, why not?


That's the spirit







.

I'm using that one myself too. Well, I actually got the lettered one and bought the blank keycap set separately to keep the lettered set looking new. The only thing that sucks is that when buying the separate keycaps they don't have the matte finish on them, that only gets applied after they've been mounted to a board. So they are shiny. I guess it's kind of like buying pre-worn jeans, lol.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *judasdoh*


we should make a clicky keyboard club










Good idea, and it looks like you already started a thread I haven't seen yet.

To change the title hit "edit" then "advanced".


----------



## judasdoh

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


That's the spirit







.

Good idea, and it looks like you already started a thread I haven't seen yet.

To change the title hit "edit" then "advanced".


oh thanks dude







<3


----------



## RayvinAzn

Decisions, decisions...The new tactile Deck boards sound absolutely superb. I'm not too hooked on the click, but tactile is a must for me. Their price...well, it's about $30 more than I wanted to pay, especially since they're damn near encroaching on Realforce territory. I do enjoy backlighting, and Deck does seem to have nailed that part perfectly what with individual LEDs, very adjustable brightness levels, etc. but I'm not sure if I really like backlighting that much. If I don't go that way I'll be going Filco, but I really do like the look of those new tactile Deck boards.


----------



## grahamcrackuh

DO NOT WANT PS/2

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8147534.stm


----------



## PropNut

Quote:



Originally Posted by *grahamcrackuh*


DO NOT WANT PS/2

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8147534.stm


That is an interesting bit...but...

If anyone were to go through the trouble to buy/steal the equiptment and then find an unobtrusive location to mount said equiptment around my home...they would be much better served to kick the front door down and rifle through my private papers, steal my computer and any other valuables that might be laying around. I (and this goes for me only) am not going to worry about using a PS2 keyboard for now.

Thanks for the heads up though.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn*


Decisions, decisions...The new tactile Deck boards sound absolutely superb. I'm not too hooked on the click, but tactile is a must for me. Their price...well, it's about $30 more than I wanted to pay, especially since they're damn near encroaching on Realforce territory. I do enjoy backlighting, and Deck does seem to have nailed that part perfectly what with individual LEDs, very adjustable brightness levels, etc. but I'm not sure if I really like backlighting that much. If I don't go that way I'll be going Filco, but I really do like the look of those new tactile Deck boards.


Yeah, I can't believe they increased their prices this much, the _only_ thing they've got over other boards is backlighting. And backlighting is not worth ~$60 IMO. Especially with that terrible font









Quote:



Originally Posted by *grahamcrackuh*


DO NOT WANT PS/2

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8147534.stm


Yeah, well. Like propnut said, there are still much easier ways to get private data than that.

Besides, if you're really that worried, just splice your PS/2 cable and shield the ground wire. Or hook up something that generates square waves in the 10kHz-16.7kHz range and you're golden.


----------



## PropNut

I am still grumbling about Deck to my wife...I was all set to plunk down my 129.00 (even after they upped the price from 119.99!!) and then they boosted the price another 60.00!!!!


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Yeah, I can't believe they increased their prices this much, the _only_ thing they've got over other boards is backlighting. And backlighting is not worth ~$60 IMO. Especially with that terrible font









Well, they also use Cherry white switches which (from what I've been reading) sound like the perfect switches for me. Cherry browns sound too light, blacks lack that tactile feel, and the blues might be a bit too loud with their click. If Filco had a board with Cherry white switches (not the tenkeyless Zero board) below $130 I'd buy it in a heartbeat. As it stands I'm still pretty damn torn, and my birthday is two weeks away (I could just buy the board, but I need to have something easy for my wife to buy, and there's no way in hell I'm letting her shop for CPU coolers).

I also wish Filco would release a keypad that used Cherry blacks. That would be perfect to use as a gamepad while I could still have a nice tactile feedback keyboard.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn* 
Well, they also use Cherry white switches which (from what I've been reading) sound like the perfect switches for me. Cherry browns sound too light, blacks lack that tactile feel, and the blues might be a bit too loud with their click. If Filco had a board with Cherry white switches (not the tenkeyless Zero board) below $130 I'd buy it in a heartbeat. As it stands I'm still pretty damn torn, and my birthday is two weeks away (I could just buy the board, but I need to have something easy for my wife to buy, and there's no way in hell I'm letting her shop for CPU coolers).

I also wish Filco would release a keypad that used Cherry blacks. That would be perfect to use as a gamepad while I could still have a nice tactile feedback keyboard.

I actually convinced a friend of mine to buy a good keyboard, and he bought a tactile Deck. He loves it, and can't stand anything else anymore. I wish I could suggest another keyboard with the white Cherry switches, but I don't know of any.


----------



## Halciet

Well, I've been using the cherry brown for a few days now; I'm chiming back in to share an observation. I've been enjoying the keyboard, but I don't think I really noticed how big of a difference the keys really made until I came into the office today. I got back on the MSN4k that I have at my desk at Cisco and started working. After awhile, I thought to myself, man, what is up with the keyboard today, the keys feel kind've mushy...and then I realized what a difference the Filco had made.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
I actually convinced a friend of mine to buy a good keyboard, and he bought a tactile Deck. He loves it, and can't stand anything else anymore. I wish I could suggest another keyboard with the white Cherry switches, but I don't know of any.

I got some mess-around time on my friend's Steelseries 7G, and after that I know I have to get a mechanical switch keyboard. The white switches sound just perfect, but if need be I suppose I could "make-do" with browns or blues.


----------



## honk_honk

Been looking at mechanical keyboards and I've been trying to find a cheaper alternative to the Deck keyboard as I want a back lit keyboard. Just to clarify the 82 key Decks are cherry blacks, correct?
Secondly during my hunt for a back lit mechanical keyboard I found a few posts about the iOne Scorpius m10 bl. The only problem being I can't seem to find them, do you guys know where they can be bought or if then even actually exists, since I've only seen like the same 2 images and posts about them.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *honk_honk*


Been looking at mechanical keyboards and I've been trying to find a cheaper alternative to the Deck keyboard as I want a back lit keyboard. Just to clarify the 82 key Decks are cherry blacks, correct?
Secondly during my hunt for a back lit mechanical keyboard I found a few posts about the iOne Scorpius m10 bl. The only problem being I can't seem to find them, do you guys know where they can be bought or if then even actually exists, since I've only seen like the same 2 images and posts about them.


Unfortunately, I've never seen a backlit Scorpius M10...


----------



## PropNut

I emailed Ione about the M10 BL. They told me that there were plans to rerelease the keyboard this fall but at a price of 179.99.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


I emailed Ione about the M10 BL. They told me that there were plans to rerelease the keyboard this fall but at a price of 179.99.










The Deck is $10 Cheaper


----------



## PropNut

What the proposed retail price is and what it will actually be are two different creatures. I expect it to be around 149.99. That is still too high for an M10 IMHO


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PropNut* 
What the proposed retail price is and what it will actually be are two different creatures. I expect it to be around 149.99. That is still too high for an M10 IMHO

Well, at that expected price, the Deck sounds like a better deal, doesn't it?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn*


Well, they also use Cherry white switches which (from what I've been reading) sound like the perfect switches for me. Cherry browns sound too light, blacks lack that tactile feel, and the blues might be a bit too loud with their click. If Filco had a board with Cherry white switches (not the tenkeyless Zero board) below $130 I'd buy it in a heartbeat. As it stands I'm still pretty damn torn, and my birthday is two weeks away (I could just buy the board, but I need to have something easy for my wife to buy, and there's no way in hell I'm letting her shop for CPU coolers).

I also wish Filco would release a keypad that used Cherry blacks. That would be perfect to use as a gamepad while I could still have a nice tactile feedback keyboard.


You know, you _could_ get their keypad (or any other mechanical keypad for that matter) and replace the switches yourself. It's pretty easy. Digi-key sells individual Cherry switches for about $1 each, and all it takes is a bit of desoldering/soldering. (Catalog)

If you don't wanna do it you can always send the pad and switches over to me, I'm about to do the same thing but with Blues to match my keyboard.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


I emailed Ione about the M10 BL. They told me that there were plans to rerelease the keyboard this fall but at a price of 179.99.










Yeah um, I doubt they'll sell many at that price. Even if they do stick to their plan they'll end up dropping the price pretty quickly I bet.


----------



## Duckydude

I want to get a really nice mechanical switch keyboard and I was looking at these: http://www.elitekeyboards.com, but I cant seem to find where you can chose what style switches you get, I want blue, which overall seems to be the best choice.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Duckydude*


I want to get a really nice mechanical switch keyboard and I was looking at these: http://www.elitekeyboards.com, but I cant seem to find where you can chose what style switches you get, I want blue, which overall seems to be the best choice.


Any of the keyboards with "click" in the name have the blue switches.
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...pid=fkbn87mceb
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...d=fkbn87mcnpek


----------



## honk_honk

179.99 for the m10 bl, bummer does adding LEDs really constitute tripling the price of the keyboard?

Might as well get a deck now, does anyone know if deck will make a tactile 82 keyboard, or are the 82 tactiles by nature?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *honk_honk* 
179.99 for the m10 bl, bummer does adding LEDs really constitute tripling the price of the keyboard?

Might as well get a deck now, does anyone know if deck will make a tactile 82 keyboard, or are the 82 tactiles by nature?

You could ask them, but I'm not sure they'll be quick about it. No, they aren't currently tactile, they are linear switches, with less feedback than a dome/membrane keyboard.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Duckydude* 
I want to get a really nice mechanical switch keyboard and I was looking at these: http://www.elitekeyboards.com, but I cant seem to find where you can chose what style switches you get, I want blue, which overall seems to be the best choice.

If you click on a keyboard and read the description it says it.

You can also tell by the picture - out of the ones with cherries (only the Zero uses alps):

Green LEDs = Blue Switches
Blue LEDs = Brown Switches
Red LEDs = Black Switches


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


You know, you _could_ get their keypad (or any other mechanical keypad for that matter) and replace the switches yourself. It's pretty easy. Digi-key sells individual Cherry switches for about $1 each, and all it takes is a bit of desoldering/soldering. (Catalog)

If you don't wanna do it you can always send the pad and switches over to me, I'm about to do the same thing but with Blues to match my keyboard.


I might do that to the keypad (that's actually a pretty damn good idea), but the keyboard I'd rather just have. I can honestly live with the price I guess, I was just kind of hoping they'd be about the same price as the linear boards, and I wanted a red one (better for night vision).


----------



## LETE

I bought myself a dell at101w, now i just need to find some way to rub the letters off the keys. I took a mars plastic eraser to the DELL logo, it seems to be working pretty well.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LETE*


I bought myself a dell at101w, now i just need to find some way to rub the letters off the keys. I took a mars plastic eraser to the DELL logo, it seems to be working pretty well.


So that's an abrasive?


----------



## LETE

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


So that's an abrasive?


I was too afraid to use sandpaper, an eraser seemed mild enough to try without fear of destroying the plastic. I don't think i would want to do each key this way, they're far to small to handle.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LETE*


I was too afraid to use sandpaper, an eraser seemed mild enough to try without fear of destroying the plastic. I don't think i would want to do each key this way, they're far to small to handle.


Sandblasting the keys works









It's also a good way to get some texture back on shiny, worn out keys as well.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Sandblasting the keys works









It's also a good way to get some texture back on shiny, worn out keys as well.


Can you get blank keycaps for the ALPS switches? If you can, it sure would seem like a better option...


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


Can you get blank keycaps for the ALPS switches? If you can, it sure would seem like a better option...


You could always get them custom made, but most places that do it either have a minimum quantity or minimum charge. Neither of which are cheap.

Of course, if you can find a bunch of people who are interested in it you could order a couple of sets and it ends up pretty cheap that way.


----------



## getllamasfast

What wrist rests do you recommend? I'm used to having the g15's giant wrist rest when I game and now that it's gone I'm getting some bad wrist pain









Also, here are a few pictures that I promised to post a while back.


----------



## Manyak

I'm having a hard time finding a wrist rest that I find comfortable, but so far the best one I've tried is the Belkin Waverest.


----------



## honk_honk

Has anyone tried the Filco Zero series keyboard?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *honk_honk*


Has anyone tried the Filco Zero series keyboard?


Not me.

What do you want to know about it?


----------



## honk_honk

I was wondering how it compares to the filco cherry blue.
Is it louder, how the overall typing experience compares. Sorry that isn't very specific.


----------



## Manyak

I think you'll find everything you want to know here (and here for images).


----------



## tombom

Update: The ABS M1 is only 44 dollars on Newegg.


----------



## PropNut

Good price, almost worth picking up to check it out.


----------



## Manyak

Wow, not bad!


----------



## timw4mail

Dell AT101W's, with similar switches for $20 or best offer:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWNX:IT


----------



## PropNut

I have a Dell AT101W it is pretty good. The ABS's are blue switches right?


----------



## xguntherc

So does a nice keyboard like these make that huge of a difference? I have the Logitech G11... I didn't know any better, and I liked the Ligh6t up keys for the look and night gaming.

What are some good sub $45 dollar choices like that ABS M1 or whatever. and what all are the benefits of these?


----------



## PropNut

No offense Xguntherc...but this thread would be a 1/4 of the size it is not if people would read a few posts. That question has been answered over and over.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xguntherc*


So does a nice keyboard like these make that huge of a difference? I have the Logitech G11... I didn't know any better, and I liked the Ligh6t up keys for the look and night gaming.

What are some good sub $45 dollar choices like that ABS M1 or whatever. and what all are the benefits of these?


The difference is the tactility of the keystroke, and the bounce-back of the key. 
Rubber dome keyboards, like any Microsoft, Logitech, Razor, etc... require you to push the key down the entire way to register a keystroke, do not have a distinct tactile feel, and don't bounce back as quickly as mechanical switches.

These other keyboards also tend to have a much higher build quality than the average keyboard.

There are so many different keyswitches and mechanisms its hard to know where to start describing them.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PropNut* 
I have a Dell AT101W it is pretty good. The ABS's are blue switches right?

Nope, they are Black Alps Copies.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xguntherc* 
So does a nice keyboard like these make that huge of a difference? I have the Logitech G11... I didn't know any better, and I liked the Ligh6t up keys for the look and night gaming.

What are some good sub $45 dollar choices like that ABS M1 or whatever. and what all are the benefits of these?

It all depends on preference. But if you care to hear mine, it's that Logitech's keys make it feel like you're sticking your fingers into a tray of jello and almost any board is better, including other rubber domes.

The biggest benefit of mechanical keyboards is the way they feel. The best way to describe them would probably be...well..you know how scissor switches (laptop keyboards) make normal rubber domes feel mushy? Mechanical switches do the same thing to laptop keyboards. Which by proxy makes regular keyboards feel even worse.

And better yet, they last for decades. Unlike regular boards, the key feel won't start getting uneven with certain keys, and you won't ever have to press a key really hard for it to register. And if for some odd reason one of the keys dies on you, it can be fixed extremely easily, since all you have to do is replace a single switch (with a regular board you'd have to throw it out and get a new one). So at the end of the day the price is pretty justified.

The only _new_ full size mechanical keyboard under $50 is the ABS. But there's also the Scorpius M10 for $50-$60, and IMO it's a better pick than the ABS. But if you don't mind going used, you can pick up a keyboard with practically any type of switch you want for $20 or less.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
But if you don't mind going used, you can pick up a keyboard with practically any type of switch you want for $20 or less.

The ebay auction I mentioned earlier claims to have Dell AT101Ws in new condition, for $20 or best offer...although I do not know how good the black ALPS switches are for typing with.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
The ebay auction I mentioned earlier claims to have Dell AT101Ws in new condition, for $20 or best offer...although I do not know how good the black ALPS switches are for typing with.

They feel almost like cherry browns but you can _barely_ feel the tactile bump.


----------



## CorporalAris

By the way, thanks for this guide. I bought the ABS M1, and now everytime I type on rubber domes, I type MUCH slower. I only like mine. Lol, my typing has improved much.

Rubber domes feel like I am typing in syrup.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CorporalAris*


By the way, thanks for this guide. I bought the ABS M1, and now everytime I type on rubber domes, I type MUCH slower. I only like mine. Lol, my typing has improved much.

Rubber domes feel like I am typing in syrup.


That is the one problem when you get a decent keyboard...You know what you miss in ordinary keyboards...

I guess it really is one of those cases where ignorance is bliss...


----------



## uberjon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


That is the one problem when you get a decent keyboard...You know what you miss in ordinary keyboards...

I guess it really is one of those cases where ignorance is bliss...


yeah. i agree. i have this old old keyboard i use. i have to use an adapter to convert to PS/2









however its starting to show its age.. the I key and the shift key act up every once in a while.. other than that its a dream. (minus the nightmare when i touch another keyboard and want to pull out my hair!!! (note the shift key acted up on those !))

i am hoping sometime soon to pick up a new one with USB.. the ABS looks like a nice option. but from a post in this thread the tactile is not that great.. and considering how old my keyboard is im afraid it might be a downgrade..

Model: KB-5981
Brand (i think?) Chicony
Serial number: (not saying. but it does have its own unique serial number!







)


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *uberjon*


yeah. i agree. i have this old old keyboard i use. i have to use an adapter to convert to PS/2









however its starting to show its age.. the I key and the shift key act up every once in a while.. other than that its a dream. (minus the nightmare when i touch another keyboard and want to pull out my hair!!! (note the shift key acted up on those !))

i am hoping sometime soon to pick up a new one with USB.. the ABS looks like a nice option. but from a post in this thread the tactile is not that great.. and considering how old my keyboard is im afraid it might be a downgrade..

Model: KB-5981
Brand (i think?) Chicony
Serial number: (not saying. but it does have its own unique serial number!







)


Just out of curiosity, what kind of switches does that have? Can you get a picture by removing a keycap?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *uberjon*


yeah. i agree. i have this old old keyboard i use. i have to use an adapter to convert to PS/2









however its starting to show its age.. the I key and the shift key act up every once in a while.. other than that its a dream. (minus the nightmare when i touch another keyboard and want to pull out my hair!!! (note the shift key acted up on those !))

i am hoping sometime soon to pick up a new one with USB.. the ABS looks like a nice option. but from a post in this thread the tactile is not that great.. and considering how old my keyboard is im afraid it might be a downgrade..

Model: KB-5981
Brand (i think?) Chicony
Serial number: (not saying. but it does have its own unique serial number!







)


What kind of switches does that one have? You can always get a replacement switch for your shift key and solder it in. If you can't find it separately you can pick up a cheap keyboard on ebay and take a switch from that.

If you post a pic of the switch and stems it would help a bit


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


What kind of switches does that one have? You can always get a replacement switch for your shift key and solder it in. If you can't find it separately you can pick up a cheap keyboard on ebay and take a switch from that.

If you post a pic of the switch and stems it would help a bit










Sometimes I think you don't read what I've posted...


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


Sometimes I think you don't read what I've posted...


no, you posted while I was typing lol

I took a few minutes to try to find the keyboard before hitting ok


----------



## tombom

I don't really care a whole lot about all this "switch" hullabaloo, but if the difference is as you say it is, I'll probably like them.

The only thing I really want in my keyboard is some good BUILD QUALITY. This Saitek eclipse I have feels super cheap, and flexes pretty easily.


----------



## xxsubzero568xx

I just got back from a month long oversea trip(stuck on laptop), and what I noticed is that the keys on my laptop feels much better then the keys on both my logitech or saitek. I type faster, the keys seem stiffer, more responsive and when I type on other keyboards it feels like typing in mud...

Is there a keyboard that uses the same keys setup as in the laptops (what are they exactly because they don't feel like domes?) or is there a mechanical equivalence?


----------



## tombom

Scissor switch keys. I just read like 20 pages of this thread haha. Check the front for a good board with em'.

Edit: unfortunately, there are none, but these guys can point you in the right direction to a board that accurately emulates it I guess.


----------



## xxsubzero568xx

I think I just like the really low key strokes allows fast response, and the stiffness of the keys. Does this mean that Cherry MX black will feel good or is this something completely different?


----------



## sintricate

I love my scissor switch keyboard


----------



## sintricate

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tombom*


Scissor switch keys. I just read like 20 pages of this thread haha. Check the front for a good board with em'.

Edit: unfortunately, there are none, but these guys can point you in the right direction to a board that accurately emulates it I guess.


Did you say there aren't any scissor switch keyboards?









I've been using this one for over a year:
http://us.kensington.com/html/4826.html

I could never go back to a "normal" keyboard.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tombom* 
I don't really care a whole lot about all this "switch" hullabaloo, but if the difference is as you say it is, I'll probably like them.

The only thing I really want in my keyboard is some good BUILD QUALITY. This Saitek eclipse I have feels super cheap, and flexes pretty easily.

The best quality _new_ keyboards are the Filco boards. Easily. If you don't care for how much noise it'll make then get one with Cherry Blue switches (the ones with the green LEDs in the pictures) because chances are you'll like their feel better, otherwise go for one with Cherry Browns (blue LEDs).

By the way, if you want a full size board (with numberpad) with cherry blues just wait about 2 weeks or so, www.elitekeyboards.com is going to start carrying them. Right now they only have tenkeyless blues.

Either way, whichever switch you want, make sure the board has n-key rollover (indicated by the model number FKB*N*xxxxx).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xxsubzero568xx* 
I just got back from a month long oversea trip(stuck on laptop), and what I noticed is that the keys on my laptop feels much better then the keys on both my logitech or saitek. I type faster, the keys seem stiffer, more responsive and when I type on other keyboards it feels like typing in mud...

Is there a keyboard that uses the same keys setup as in the laptops (what are they exactly because they don't feel like domes?) or is there a mechanical equivalence?

They are called scissor switches, and it's really just rubber domes with a scissor mechanism holding the key in place. But yes, they feel tons better than almost all plain rubber dome boards out there.

If you want to stick with those my recommendation would be the IBM Ultranav. They have the best quality scissor switches I've come across. And once you get used to the trackpoint you can end up using it faster than a mouse for quick dialog box buttons and stuff since you won't have to move your hands off the home row. Obviously it doesn't _replace_ a mouse, it just compliments it.

But to give you a perspective on mechanical boards, the way you find that scissor switches make rubber domes muddy, [most] mechanical switches make scissor switches feel muddy as well.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xxsubzero568xx* 
I think I just like the really low key strokes allows fast response, and the stiffness of the keys. Does this mean that Cherry MX black will feel good or is this something completely different?

Nah that's different. Cherry switches all have an overall key travel of 4mm (about the same as a regular rubber dome board). But you only have to press them halfway, to 2mm, for them to actuate. This way you don't have to hit the bottom while typing, making it less fatiguing.

The difference between the switches is that the Blues and Browns have a tactile bump at the 2mm mark (well, technically right before it) that lets you know that you activated the switch. They also increase their resistance the farther down you travel, so that it can 'catch' your keypress a bit better after you've hit the bump. Blacks have no bump at all, and they are almost completely linear in their force. That's why they aren't so great for typing, but perfect for gaming (since you go all the way down to the bottom while gaming anyway).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sintricate* 
Did you say there aren't any scissor switch keyboards?









I've been using this one for over a year:
http://us.kensington.com/html/4826.html

I could never go back to a "normal" keyboard.

He means there aren't any listed in the OP, not that none exist


----------



## sintricate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 

He means there aren't any listed in the OP, not that none exist









Thanks for clearing that up


----------



## xxsubzero568xx

Ya, definite thanks on helping us clarify these things.

This makes me think what kind of switches are in the gaming mouse? like the logitech G-series? They feel awesome, will there be a keyboard made from those? :0


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xxsubzero568xx* 
Ya, definite thanks on helping us clarify these things.

This makes me think what kind of switches are in the gaming mouse? like the logitech G-series? They feel awesome, will there be a keyboard made from those? :0

My guess is some sort of microswitch, attached to a lever (the "button" on the casing... which I'm sure really wouldn't be that nice to type on.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
My guess is some sort of microswitch, attached to a lever (the "button" on the casing... which I'm sure really wouldn't be that nice to type on.

Yeah, I for one don't think I'd be able to handle it.

Then again, who knows? Maybe just being able to _tap_ the keys can end up being the fastest and easiest way to type after all.


----------



## xxsubzero568xx

I found this video on the internet with the DIY Microswitch keyboard.












The sound reminds me of a type writer, the switches should be as durable,if not more, then mechanical switches.









Maybe I should mention this on GeekHack to see if someone will pursue this.


----------



## sintricate

He's either Jesus or a lost member of the Beatles


----------



## xxsubzero568xx

What does everyone think about the Apple keyboards?

http://www.apple.com/keyboard/

(wired of course)


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xxsubzero568xx*


What does everyone think about the Apple keyboards?

http://www.apple.com/keyboard/

(wired of course)


While it's better than most rubber dome keyboards, its just a step above rubber domes, so it's not high on the list of recommended keyboards.


----------



## Manyak

Just for the record that is NOT a chiclet keyboard like so many people call it, it is just a regular scissor switch board except the sides of the keys are straight instead of slanted.

Chiclet boards are the same as rubber domes except the keys are part of the rubber as well. Like this:


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Just for the record that is NOT a chiclet keyboard like so many people call it, it is just a regular scissor switch board except the sides of the keys are straight instead of slanted.

Chiclet boards are the same as rubber domes except the keys are part of the rubber as well. Like this:











So that would make those roll-up keyboards chiclet keyboards?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


So that would make those roll-up keyboards chiclet keyboards?


I never thought of them that way, but yeah I guess that technically makes them chiclet boards.









I also forgot to mention, there _are_ some chiclet keyboards where plastic is fused onto the rubber to make the keys. They feel a bit better because the keys themselves aren't completely squishy, but they still suck to use.


----------



## Halciet

Man, and I always thought they were called Chiclet boards because the keys looked like chiclets, the candy.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Halciet* 
Man, and I always thought they were called Chiclet boards because the keys looked like chiclets, the candy.

Well yeah that's where their name came from. It just so happens that all those keyboards with the tiny keys that look like the pieces of gum were done in this way.

But even if you define it like that, those apple keyboards still aren't chiclet keyboards like everyone likes to call them.


----------



## IEATFISH

Anyone used the ABS Mechanical board? I'm looking at getting it.


----------



## Afrodisiac

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IEATFISH* 
Anyone used the ABS Mechanical board? I'm looking at getting it.

Quoted from OP:

Quote:

If you're looking for a bang-for-your-buck keyboard for gaming, look no further. The key feel isn't the greatest, but you won't find a better mechanical board for gaming at this price. But if typing feel is important and you are unsure about how all these different switches feel, just skip this board and read on.

Link: Newegg
Price: $44
Switch Type: Black Alps Copies
Key feel: Moderate
Tactile feel: Light Tactile Feedback
Noise: Clacky when bottoming out keys, but not too loud
Rollover: 6-key + modifiers, but rumors say it's not implemented well
Key Delay: Untested
Key travel: Unknown
Typing: 7/10
There's not much to say about this keyboard when it comes to typing. It's just a basic board and doesn't stand out in any area.
Gaming: 9/10
There's only one reason it doesn't get a full score, which is because it's not full NKRO.

I'd say go for it.


----------



## 88EVGAFTW

This thread inspired me to hook up an old dell mech keyboard














, or so I think it's mechanical. Either way it's the old style with the big blocky keys and I like it much more, but I will still use my razer, just wanted to go back to old times


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IEATFISH* 
Anyone used the ABS Mechanical board? I'm looking at getting it.


Most would recommend a Filco, or Scorpius M10 over this ABS, but then again, I don't there has been that much familiarity with that particular 'board.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
Most would recommend a Filco, or Scorpius M10 over this ABS, but then again, I don't there has been that much familiarity with that particular 'board.

Except even the cheapest Filco is $80 while this one is $45. So it comes down to how much you can afford to spend and how much you may or may not like other switches.


----------



## VCheeZ

I just bought 2 of these...
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/ke...ards/index.htm

Did I do good?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VCheeZ* 
I just bought 2 of these...
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/ke...ards/index.htm

Did I do good?









Cherry G83 boards are just rubber domes


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Cherry G83 boards are just rubber domes









was going to ask you before i ordered one aswell







atleast it is programable. i just presumed cherry=mechanicle damnit


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


was going to ask you before i ordered one aswell







atleast it is programable. i just presumed cherry=mechanicle damnit


Well at least they are pretty decent rubber domes, they feel better than Logitech's that's for sure!

Yeah what you're looking for are the G80 boards. They have the standard MX switches that we keep talking about.

The MY switches are also mechanical, but a bit different. Instead of there being contacts within the switch, pressing the key sends a hammer onto a membrane sheet, activating the letter (kind of like Buckling Springs, but the mechanics are different).

And the ML switches are mechanical, but they are low-travel (2mm instead of 4mm). Those boards are also smaller though, so using them as a main keyboard isn't really comfortable.


----------



## VCheeZ

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Cherry G83 boards are just rubber domes










Well...for the price I payed...they are still worth it. Like Vince says...they are made in Germany, so they gotta be good


----------



## VCheeZ

Ok...bought the right one this time...








http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I can change the layout in windows from denmark to US


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *VCheeZ*


Ok...bought the right one this time...








http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I can change the layout in windows from denmark to US










You did read the part about the G84s having smaller keys right? They have 18mm spacing instead of the standard 19mm.

Just making sure you know what you're getting


----------



## VCheeZ

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


You did read the part about the G84s having smaller keys right? They have 18mm spacing instead of the standard 19mm.

Just making sure you know what you're getting











Yea...I don't mind that at all...I am a 4-finger typist, so I am unfazed by such changes


----------



## Manyak

ok then









I've got two G84's myself and I love having them as spare 'beat me up' keyboards. They also take Rit Dye very well


----------



## VCheeZ

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
ok then









I've got two G84's myself and I love having them as spare 'beat me up' keyboards. They also take Rit Dye very well









Wait...what? You dyed them?!?!? Pics nao.


----------



## Manyak

lol if you say so...

It was my first attempt at dying keys so I didn't realize the temp was too high, I partially melted the spacebar and arrow keys (but they're still usable!)


----------



## VCheeZ

You have to break down this dying process for me....very interested!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Higgins

I'm not into the whole clickity clack mechanical keyboards, but my Logitech Wave died on me yesterday and i picked up a scissor-lift style keyboard (HP Wireless Elite).

Even though it isn't a "Mechanical" keyboard that most people here are interested in, i can definitely feel the difference from the crappy rubber-style mounts of the Logitech Wave.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Higgins*


I'm not into the whole clickity clack mechanical keyboards, but my Logitech Wave died on me yesterday and i picked up a scissor-lift style keyboard (HP Wireless Elite).

Even though it isn't a "Mechanical" keyboard that most people here are interested in, i can definitely feel the difference from the crappy rubber-style mounts of the Logitech Wave.











Its still a rubber dome, it just has a stabilizing "scissor". Besides, not all mechanical keyboards are noisy.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VCheeZ* 
You have to break down this dying process for me....very interested!!!!!!!!!!

It's very simple!

1. Heat up some water on the stove
2. Add salt
3. Add whatever color Rit Dye you want.
4. Throw in the keys
5. Let sit for 15 minutes, stirring once every few mins
6. If the color is not dark enough afterwards, rinse and repeat

Just make sure it's not too hot or you'll end up with keys like my spacebar. The temp I used on this board was right under boiling point, probably around 90C. So if you have a thermometer, obviously don't go that high. The dye sinks in faster when the water is hotter, but it's best to be patient and dye it multiple times to get the color you want instead of rushing it and warping your keys.


----------



## VCheeZ

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


It's very simple!

1. Heat up some water on the stove
2. Add salt
3. Add whatever color Rit Dye you want.
4. Throw in the keys
5. Let sit for 15 minutes, stirring once every few mins
6. If the color is not dark enough afterwards, rinse and repeat

Just make sure it's not too hot or you'll end up with keys like my spacebar. The temp I used on this board was right under boiling point, probably around 90C. So if you have a thermometer, obviously don't go that high. The dye sinks in faster when the water is hotter, but it's best to be patient and dye it multiple times to get the color you want instead of rushing it and warping your keys.


Thanks. I have been doing some research into this and plan on modding some boards for fun and profit


----------



## reberto

You show me a mechanical keyboard with media keys and I will buy one


----------



## cgg123321

Check out VCheeZ's dye job, it looks awesome!!!

http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ion-guide.html

Doing multiple dips are extremely important


----------



## TheWolfe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


It's very simple!


Does this work on all keyboard keys?


----------



## IEATFISH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TheWolfe*


Does this work on all keyboard keys?


Should work with anything plastic. Just watch your temps.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TheWolfe*


Does this work on all keyboard keys?


Only ones that aren't black.


----------



## TheWolfe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Only ones that aren't black.


Awww, it wouldn't work with black plastic keys?

Also, you guys talk about how great mech keyboards are...where can I get them for NOT over $50 or some ridiculous price? And why would you want a compact board with an awkwardly placed space bar?


----------



## IEATFISH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TheWolfe*


Awww, it wouldn't work with black plastic keys?

Also, you guys talk about how great mech keyboards are...where can I get them for NOT over $50 or some ridiculous price? And why would you want a compact board with an awkwardly placed space bar?


I looking at getting this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823224001

It has switches that are tactile but not clicky.


----------



## TheWolfe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *IEATFISH*


I looking at getting this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823224001

It has switches that are tactile but not clicky.


Define "tactile"
I think I'd enjoy clicky =(

But again, would black keys not work? And if not, could you somehow make it white and then another color??


----------



## IEATFISH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TheWolfe*


Define "tactile"
I think I'd enjoy clicky =(

But again, would black keys not work? And if not, could you somehow make it white and then another color??


You would not be able to dye those keys. Tactile means you can feel when the switch activates. Clicky means it makes a noise when it activate. You should read the guide linked in the OP for more information.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TheWolfe* 
Awww, it wouldn't work with black plastic keys?

Also, you guys talk about how great mech keyboards are...where can I get them for NOT over $50 or some ridiculous price? And why would you want a compact board with an awkwardly placed space bar?

Yeah it sucks, but there's really no way to dye black keys.

And I like that board! But I have it without windows keys so the space bar
is relatively normal. It sucks terribly as a keyboard to actually use at a desk or whatever, but it's great as something to keep around for when you need a spare board to plug into your home server to configure it, or if you just got some new hardware and have it on your test bench and are messing around, or to plug into your HTPC so you can hit F2 to get to BIOS when something happens because your dinovo mini doesn't have an F2 key.....you get the idea









There are two boards that come to mind that have 'normal' prices. The first is the ABS M1 that IEATFISH linked to. The second is the Scorpius M10. It's got cherry Blue switches that are tactile and clicky. Tactile meaning that you can actually feel when the switch actuates (the key actually gets sent to the PC about halfway down, not all the way at the bottom like rubber domes). IMO they feel better than black Alps.


----------



## timw4mail

I'll vouch that the Scorpius M10 is a nice keyboard, even for the price. And I've not had any reliability issues with it either.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Just thought I'd share that I'm the proud new owner of a Deck Legend Tactile. It was supposed to be Frost but I'm pretty sure they shipped me and Ice board. Not a big deal though, and I'm loving the keyboard so far.


----------



## Shingetsu

Just came back from japan. Went to Akihabara, in the rain, with a crappy umbrella that broke, to find the store "Cleverly" which happens be an all keyboard store specializing in filcos' and realforces'. 
Lots of keyboards but wasted my time as they didnt have any filcos with cherry blue switches and i couldnt just dish out money for a Happy Hacker 2 either. 
Guess i just need to order one.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shingetsu*


Just came back from japan. Went to Akihabara, in the rain, with a crappy umbrella that broke, to find the store "Cleverly" which happens be an all keyboard store specializing in filcos' and realforces'. 
Lots of keyboards but wasted my time as they didnt have any filcos with cherry blue switches and i couldnt just dish out money for a Happy Hacker 2 either. 
Guess i just need to order one.


haha, talk about luck









But yeah it's hard to find the ones with Cherry Blues over there, elitekeyboards.com had to get them specially ordered for US distribution. But Filco does do a limited run of them every once in a while for japan.

But hey at least you got to try out some switches!


----------



## PsikyoJebus

I just ordered myself an ol' reliable Model M from 1990 that I found real cheap on ebay....looking forward to making it my "new" keyboard. I love that clicky sound from model Ms.


----------



## Twysted

I miss the mechanicals









Gotta get another one, I hate this P.O.S. I am using atm....


----------



## MijnWraak

Hopefully the 104-key Filco Cherry Blues come out soon. Can't wait to get my hands on one! Wouldn't mind settling for 87-key, though


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MijnWraak* 
Hopefully the 104-key Filco Cherry Blues come out soon. Can't wait to get my hands on one! Wouldn't mind settling for 87-key, though









They're coming this month


----------



## tombom

I'm planning on getting the ABS keyboard. Is it worth it?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tombom* 
I'm planning on getting the ABS keyboard. Is it worth it?

As long as you think the switches sound like they suit you, then yes it is.









If you're just buying it because it's the cheapest, it's hit and miss as to if you'll like it, and you might be better off going with a Scorpius M10 (only a few bucks more).


----------



## Dark-Asylum

no offense but this thread fails. i would honestly feel more comfortable shelling out 60 bucks for a G11 with all of its USEFUL capabilities and awesome logitech warranty than 150 bucks for some "mechanical" keyboard that is of "higher quality". guess what if you don't sword fight with your keyboard(see: pure pwnage)or throw it against the wall when you play it will be fine. take care of your equipment and it won't break.

no need to spend 140 bucks on some regular ass keyboard with backlights when you might as well just buy a cheap 10 dollar lamp to put next to your standard dell keyboard that you got with your prebuilt 5 years ago.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dark-Asylum* 
no offense but this thread fails. i would honestly feel more comfortable shelling out 60 bucks for a G11 with all of its USEFUL capabilities and awesome logitech warranty than 150 bucks for some "mechanical" keyboard that is of "higher quality". guess what if you don't sword fight with your keyboard(see: pure pwnage)or throw it against the wall when you play it will be fine. take care of your equipment and it won't break.

no need to spend 140 bucks on some regular ass keyboard with backlights when you might as well just buy a cheap 10 dollar lamp to put next to your standard dell keyboard that you got with your prebuilt 5 years ago.

While your opinion is your opinion, at least get the facts straight:

The G11 has no useful capabilities that you can't do with software.

And what exactly does a warranty matter on keyboards that never break, and if they do repairs cost only $1-$2 anyway?

And just as side note, most people who buy these keyboards buy them for the feel, not just the durability. It's like the difference between driving a Honda Civic and a BMW M5. Sure they both get you from point A to point B, and sure there might be a person here and there that still prefers driving the Civic. And even though you can read up about all the specs and reviews about them, are you ever going to know which one _feels_ better to you without trying both?


----------



## VCheeZ

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dark-Asylum* 
no offense but this thread fails. i would honestly feel more comfortable shelling out 60 bucks for a G11 with all of its USEFUL capabilities and awesome logitech warranty than 150 bucks for some "mechanical" keyboard that is of "higher quality". guess what if you don't sword fight with your keyboard(see: pure pwnage)or throw it against the wall when you play it will be fine. take care of your equipment and it won't break.

no need to spend 140 bucks on some regular ass keyboard with backlights when you might as well just buy a cheap 10 dollar lamp to put next to your standard dell keyboard that you got with your prebuilt 5 years ago.

I bought 2 Cherry boards with 43 programmable keys last week on e-bay for $12 that are superior to any "gaming" keyboard I have ever owned. I am glad there are a fair-amount of intelligent OCN members who like to learn about and experience high-quality equipment. Remember, it is not about throwing your keyboard against a wall...it is about 5 million key-presses vs 50 million, and a feel you can only get from certain switches.


----------



## honk_honk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dark-Asylum* 
no offense but this thread fails. i would honestly feel more comfortable shelling out 60 bucks for a G11 with all of its USEFUL capabilities and awesome logitech warranty than 150 bucks for some "mechanical" keyboard that is of "higher quality". guess what if you don't sword fight with your keyboard(see: pure pwnage)or throw it against the wall when you play it will be fine. take care of your equipment and it won't break.

no need to spend 140 bucks on some regular ass keyboard with backlights when you might as well just buy a cheap 10 dollar lamp to put next to your standard dell keyboard that you got with your prebuilt 5 years ago.

This thread isn't a fail, as a guide to mechanical keyboards it is superb.
The point of the thread as the name implies is a guide, so it is built to inform and it does just that.

Keyboards are like mice, there is no real "best one" the best one is the one that feels best to you. So if that means get a logitech then so be it.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dark-Asylum* 
no offense but this thread fails. i would honestly feel more comfortable shelling out 60 bucks for a G11 with all of its USEFUL capabilities and awesome logitech warranty than 150 bucks for some "mechanical" keyboard that is of "higher quality". guess what if you don't sword fight with your keyboard(see: pure pwnage)or throw it against the wall when you play it will be fine. take care of your equipment and it won't break.

no need to spend 140 bucks on some regular ass keyboard with backlights when you might as well just buy a cheap 10 dollar lamp to put next to your standard dell keyboard that you got with your prebuilt 5 years ago.

Except for that there are better keyboards than the G11, for cheaper.


----------



## MijnWraak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dark-Asylum* 
no offense but this thread fails. i would honestly feel more comfortable shelling out 60 bucks for a G11 with all of its USEFUL capabilities and awesome logitech warranty than 150 bucks for some "mechanical" keyboard that is of "higher quality". guess what if you don't sword fight with your keyboard(see: pure pwnage)or throw it against the wall when you play it will be fine. take care of your equipment and it won't break.

no need to spend 140 bucks on some regular ass keyboard with backlights when you might as well just buy a cheap 10 dollar lamp to put next to your standard dell keyboard that you got with your prebuilt 5 years ago.

lol'd. Thanks for the entertainment.

*gets popcorn*

Also noone noticed he contradicted himself?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dark-Asylum* 
no need to spend 140 bucks on some regular ass keyboard with backlights


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dark-Asylum* 
a G11 with all of its USEFUL capabilities

hahaha

If you're going to troll, at least do it correctly.


----------



## timw4mail

I could pay $60 for a G11, but the "features" wouldn't matter, because it's such a mushy keyboard, because it uses rubber domes.

I'd rather pay $100 for a circa 1982-84 IBM Model F, with a very precise buckling spring mechanism with a consistent, capacitive keyswitch, over a $60 keyboard with rubber domes that don't offer precision, but rather, a crutch for lack of typing skills.

I use a noisy keyboard older than I am, because it has better tactility than any normal 'gaming' keyboard.

The Steelseries 7G actually has mechanical switches, but they are linear in feel.

So, before you think about how pointless it is to spend $100 on a keyboard, think about how well the keyboard works at actually being a keyboard.


----------



## PropNut

Gentlemen...dont feed the trolls...


----------



## Kamikaze127

I like my Lycosa because it doesn't take much to get the key pressed.

I'd much rather prefer not even having keys (love the virtual keyboard on my phone). Resistance is ridiculous.


----------



## Chaos Assasson

what type of mechanism is the saitek cyborg


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kamikaze127* 
I like my Lycosa because it doesn't take much to get the key pressed.

I'd much rather prefer not even having keys (love the virtual keyboard on my phone). Resistance is ridiculous.

There are some very light switches available, such as the cherry brown switches.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chaos Assasson* 
what type of mechanism is the saitek cyborg

It's an ordinary rubber dome, as far as I'm aware.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dark-Asylum* 
no offense but this thread fails. i would honestly feel more comfortable shelling out 60 bucks for a G11 with all of its USEFUL capabilities and awesome logitech warranty than 150 bucks for some "mechanical" keyboard that is of "higher quality". guess what if you don't sword fight with your keyboard(see: pure pwnage)or throw it against the wall when you play it will be fine. take care of your equipment and it won't break.

no need to spend 140 bucks on some regular ass keyboard with backlights when you might as well just buy a cheap 10 dollar lamp to put next to your standard dell keyboard that you got with your prebuilt 5 years ago.

As the owner of both the G11 and Deck Legend Frost, I can say with complete confidence that I'd take the Deck ANY day of the week over the G11.


----------



## Manyak




----------



## Afrodisiac

Stupid freakin' rubber domes. I want a keyboard which NOTIFIES me through loud noise or tiny electric shocks that it's deciding to "unpress" the button even though I'm still pushing it down. You know when you're running around killing people then all of a sudden you stop running because W unpressed itself?

Gah.


----------



## MijnWraak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Afrodisiac* 
Stupid freakin' rubber domes. I want a keyboard which NOTIFIES me through loud noise or tiny electric shocks that it's deciding to "unpress" the button even though I'm still pushing it down. You know when you're running around killing people then all of a sudden you stop running because W unpressed itself?

Gah.

Absolutely hate that.

Anyways, elitekeyboards.com ran out of the cherry blues *cries*. Had it bookmarked forever. http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...=fkbn87mcnpek#


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MijnWraak* 
Absolutely hate that.

Anyways, elitekeyboards.com ran out of the cherry blues *cries*. Had it bookmarked forever. http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...=fkbn87mcnpek#

The guy said that they were getting 104 key ones this month, just gotta wait for him to get back home from meeting with vendors.

And this is what he had to say about reordering the 87 key:

Quote:

Demand is all that is required to reorder







Standard or not standard is still in the air; there are always new paths to take.


----------



## Afrodisiac

So Manyak, what is the most basic good-switched mechanical board to buy that would be decent for gaming right now?

I just want something black and basic (does RIT dye work well on black keys?). If it is solidly constructed and has no gimmicks, I will buy one and RIT dye the keys I want.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Afrodisiac* 
So Manyak, what is the most basic good-switched mechanical board to buy that would be decent for gaming right now?

I just want something black and basic (does RIT dye work well on black keys?). If it is solidly constructed and has no gimmicks, I will buy one and RIT dye the keys I want.

Rit dye doesn't work on black keys









The _best_ for gaming would be a board with Cherry MX Black switches - which also happen to be absolutely horrible for typing (they are linear).

The most well constructed board with those switches would be the Filco Majestouch FKBN104ML/EB (also available tenkeyless). These come with a replacement red Esc key and you can also get purple WASD keys.

The Steelseries 7G and the Deck boards aren't too far behind though, so if you like either of these more than the Filco go for it.

I actually wanted to buy a Deck but at their current prices it's as ridiculous as the font they use lol.


----------



## Afrodisiac

Ah I knew the second I typed it that it would be impossible to dye something black but I figured I'd still ask. Is there a way you can get a keyboard with a black frame and beige (dye-able) keys?

The ironic thing is that I just deleted all my games to get ready for the fall semester so I guess pure gaming is out of the question now. Is there something that is equally decent at gaming and typing? I.e. just a neutral keyboard?


----------



## MijnWraak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Afrodisiac* 
Ah I knew the second I typed it that it would be impossible to dye something black but I figured I'd still ask. Is there a way you can get a keyboard with a black frame and beige (dye-able) keys?

The ironic thing is that I just deleted all my games to get ready for the fall semester so I guess pure gaming is out of the question now. Is there something that is equally decent at gaming and typing? I.e. just a neutral keyboard?

Cherry MX blues are great at typing and gaming.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Afrodisiac* 
Ah I knew the second I typed it that it would be impossible to dye something black but I figured I'd still ask. Is there a way you can get a keyboard with a black frame and beige (dye-able) keys?

The ironic thing is that I just deleted all my games to get ready for the fall semester so I guess pure gaming is out of the question now. Is there something that is equally decent at gaming and typing? I.e. just a neutral keyboard?

I'd say Cherry Blues or Browns, blues more balanced towards typing and browns more balanced towards gaming. You can get either switch in a Filco (make sure you pick the ones with n-key rollover) but for blues you've gotta wait a little bit, elitekeybaords is getting them back in stock sometime in the next week or two. For browns you can also get an i-Rocks KR-6230, but the layout might give you some problems (and the Filco is still better anyway). But for blues there's no other choice unless you don't mind a significantly lower quality Scorpius M10. The Das III just doesn't cut it with it's controller problems.

A _true_ neutral board would be a Topre board (fullsize/tenkeyless or HHKB). But those are _really_ expensive









Edit: Btw, there's also Cherry White/Clear switches in the Deck Legend Tactile that you could go with - those feel identical to Cherry Browns but are much stiffer (probably stiffer than anything you've typed on before).


----------



## lordikon

I guess it would be too much to ask for a nice mechanic, back lit, ergonomic keyboard at a reasonable price. I can type much faster on an ergonomic keyboard, and they're nicer on the hands after 10 hours of typing.

Something like this, but mechanical....is all that I ask.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lordikon* 
I guess it would be too much to ask for a nice mechanic, back lit, ergonomic keyboard at a reasonable price. I can type much faster on an ergonomic keyboard, and they're nicer on the hands after 10 hours of typing.

Something like this, but mechanical....is all that I ask.

There are some ergonomic ones but aren't backlit, if you're interested I could give you a list.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
There are some ergonomic ones but aren't backlit, if you're interested I could give you a list.

Yes please!


----------



## Manyak

Well these are the ones I know of, but you might have to go to ebay or obscure PC recycling sites to find some of them.

Kinesis Advantage









Apple Adjustable
[URL=http:/museo/pictures/donazioni/keyb_adjustable.jpg%5B/IMG]http://www.******************/museo/pictures/donazioni/keyb_adjustable.jpg[/IMG[/URL]]

[URL=http://www.maltron.com/maltron-keyboards.html]Maltron Keyboards[/URL]
[IMG alt=""]http://www.maltron.com/images/keyboards/maltron-usb-dual-l90-uk-pc-qwerty-1-400.jpg

IBM M15









Datahand Professional II









Northgate Omnikey Evolution









Chicony KB-7001









Cherry MX 5000 ErgoPlus









Pace Adjustable Keyboard









Kinesis Evolution Chair Mount


----------



## honk_honk

Finally made a decision on what type of mechanical keyboard to get, white alps Solidtek KB 6600ABU.

I was really hoping it was going to show up today, but alas I must wait until tomorrow.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *honk_honk*


Finally made a decision on what type of mechanical keyboard to get, white alps Solidtek KB 6600ABU.

I was really hoping it was going to show up today, but alas I must wait until tomorrow.


Awesome









Let us know how you like it!


----------



## honk_honk

I love it, so much better to type on than my g15 v. 1, the sound is exactly as you described it Manyak. It's sorta like the cherry mx blue, but instead of a *click* you get a *clack*. Compared to my brother's filco cherry blue the keys are a bit stiffer. There is a slight ring when you bottom the keys out, I guess this is my penalty for not being a good typist.

Out of curiosity, are there places to buy alp keys?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *honk_honk*


I love it, so much better to type on than my g15 v. 1, the sound is exactly as you described it Manyak. It's sorta like the cherry mx blue, but instead of a *click* you get a *clack*. Compared to my brother's filco cherry blue the keys are a bit stiffer. There is a slight ring when you bottom the keys out, I guess this is my penalty for not being a good typist.

Out of curiosity, are there places to buy alp keys?


Just the keycaps? You can get custom sets done but they are pretty expensive (more than the price of the keyboard unless you're ordering in large quantities).

Your best bet is to just buy used/broken keyboards on ebay and harvest the caps from them.


----------



## honk_honk

Thanks I think I'm happy with my current set up for the moment then.


----------



## Zerkk

I love this thread! Thanks for all the info, I've put off buying a nice keyboard for awhile and with this I'm going to get one soooooon. I'm between a Filco or the ABS. I'm more towards gaming and those seemed like the best choices, I liked the sound of them and also the priceing is great for what you get. Does anyone have any experiance with the ABS and Filco for gaming? Also the filco is sexy with 87 keys









edit: How does the ***ka differ from the cherry brown on the Filco boards?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Zerkk*


I love this thread! Thanks for all the info, I've put off buying a nice keyboard for awhile and with this I'm going to get one soooooon. I'm between a Filco or the ABS. I'm more towards gaming and those seemed like the best choices, I liked the sound of them and also the priceing is great for what you get. Does anyone have any experiance with the ABS and Filco for gaming? Also the filco is sexy with 87 keys









edit: How does the ***ka differ from the cherry brown on the Filco boards?


The Black Alps on the ABS M1 feel very similar to cherry browns, but cherry browns are lighter, and the travel on the alps is a _tiny_ bit rougher.

Either way I'm sure you'll enjoy it


----------



## Crazy9000

Does anyone know if the das keyboard works better if you use a USB>PS/2 adapter? Or would it still use the shoddy controller?


----------



## PropNut

Manyak, I picture you like a Budda sitting on high with a smile of perfect keyboard Zen on your face









You are da man!


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Does anyone know if the das keyboard works better if you use a USB>PS/2 adapter? Or would it still use the shoddy controller?


From what I understand, it's the deficiency of the matrix, not the controller, per se.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Does anyone know if the das keyboard works better if you use a USB>PS/2 adapter? Or would it still use the shoddy controller?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


From what I understand, it's the deficiency of the matrix, not the controller, per se.


It's not the matrix itself, it's the frequency at which the controller scans it. And by controller I mean the electronics within the keyboard itself, so even an adapter won't fix it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


Manyak, I picture you like a Budda sitting on high with a smile of perfect keyboard Zen on your face









You are da man!



lol, the _last_ thing I need is lettered teeth


----------



## Zerkk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
The Black Alps on the ABS M1 feel very similar to cherry browns, but cherry browns are lighter, and the travel on the alps is a _tiny_ bit rougher.

Either way I'm sure you'll enjoy it









Thanks. What about the cheaper Filco. In the discription it say's "***ka unbranded white ALPS mechanical key switches with clicky tactile feel"


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zerkk* 
Thanks. What about the cheaper Filco. In the discription it say's "***ka unbranded white ALPS mechanical key switches with clicky tactile feel"

Those are a bit stiffer, and really loud, but have a better tactile feel than both the Black Alps and Cherry Browns.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
It's not the matrix itself, it's the frequency at which the controller scans it. And by controller I mean the electronics within the keyboard itself, so even an adapter won't fix it.

Okay, I wasn't sure if the PS/2 controller was a separate thing. I do have a das lying around though, and it gives huge problems when I plug it into the USB so I'll probably get a ps/2 adapter anyways. When I plug it into the USB almost nothing else in the USB ports will work lol.

I do love the switches in the das, what kind are they? I do have a deck also which I use on my main pc, that type of keyswitch is better for gaming, but the das is cool for typing.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Okay, I wasn't sure if the PS/2 controller was a separate thing. I do have a das lying around though, and it gives huge problems when I plug it into the USB so I'll probably get a ps/2 adapter anyways. When I plug it into the USB almost nothing else in the USB ports will work lol.

I do love the switches in the das, what kind are they? I do have a deck also which I use on my main pc, that type of keyswitch is better for gaming, but the das is cool for typing.


They are Cherry MX Blues, defeinitely one of the top 3 switches for typing









As for the USB problem, have you tried using it in a powered hub? It might just be that your PC can't supply enough power.


----------



## Zerkk

Well I think I'm going to go with the Filco Zero Series, it's a bit cheaper than the others and I watched a youtube video to hear the sound and I kinda like it. Plus from what I've been reading in this thead is that Filco are high quality so I'll probably stick to that. I tend to be a bit harder on the keys compared to some people, I don't just litely tap the keys like some people, will that have a major effect on my mech keyboard purchase?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Zerkk*


Well I think I'm going to go with the Filco Zero Series, it's a bit cheaper than the others and I watched a youtube video to hear the sound and I kinda like it. Plus from what I've been reading in this thead is that Filco are high quality so I'll probably stick to that. I tend to be a bit harder on the keys compared to some people, I don't just litely tap the keys like some people, will that have a major effect on my mech keyboard purchase?


Yeah in your case I'd say just to make sure you stick with heavier switches - White Alps, Buckling Springs, and Cherry MX Whites. So the Filco Zero ends up a good choice









Either way, it'll still take you a little bit to get used to not hitting the bottom like you do on rubber domes. I used to type really hard as well and it took me like 2-3 weeks to get used to it :/. But then again, that was on Cherry Browns which are extremely light, so it shouldn't take as long for you.


----------



## lb_felipe

Manyak, congratulation for your topic.

I would like you answer any questions:

What do you find about Key Tronic? Does it use mechanical keys?

For the its price, worth it?

I am sorry for my bad english.

Greetings.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*


Manyak, congratulation for your topic.

I would like you answer any questions:

What do you find about Key Tronic? Does it use mechanical keys?

For the its price, worth it?

I am sorry for my bad english.

Greetings.


No, Key Tronic boards are rubber dome - but from what I hear, good quality rubber dome.


----------



## PsikyoJebus

Yay, my IBM model M from 1993 finally arrived today......I've honestly never typed on a mechanical keyboard like this in AGES and all I have to say is....this keyboard is pure sechs. Typing feels a lot better on this than mushy rubber domes. Only issue with it is that it seems to be missing 4 of the key caps, which I know I can get from that clickykeyboards.com site, but with shipping to canada and all it turns out to be really expensive (I contacted the seller on ebay to see if he still has them lying around....which I doubt it, but it was worth a shot anyways, hahaha). Oh well, maybe once my next paycheck comes in or something...because I blew my current one off on a 1080p monitor for a dual monitor setup.

One question though. How do the cherry blues (the clicky ones) compare to something like these buckling springs in terms of feel?

Also.....would it make me too much of a geek if I consider buying another mechanical keyboard like a filco? Now i'm curious about these cherry switch types as I've never felt them before. Which one would be the best value if I were to get it shipped to Canada?


----------



## honk_honk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


No, Key Tronic boards are rubber dome - but from what I hear, good quality rubber dome.


The school I tutor for uses key tronics, they are good quality rubber domes, almost like using a mechanical. They must be pretty resilient as far as rubber domes go to since the key tronics in the computer lab look pretty old, but they aren't mushy at all.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PsikyoJebus* 
Yay, my IBM model M from 1993 finally arrived today......I've honestly never typed on a mechanical keyboard like this in AGES and all I have to say is....this keyboard is pure sechs. Typing feels a lot better on this than mushy rubber domes. Only issue with it is that it seems to be missing 4 of the key caps, which I know I can get from that clickykeyboards.com site, but with shipping to canada and all it turns out to be really expensive (I contacted the seller on ebay to see if he still has them lying around....which I doubt it, but it was worth a shot anyways, hahaha). Oh well, maybe once my next paycheck comes in or something...because I blew my current one off on a 1080p monitor for a dual monitor setup.

One question though. How do the cherry blues (the clicky ones) compare to something like these buckling springs in terms of feel?

Also.....would it make me too much of a geek if I consider buying another mechanical keyboard like a filco? Now i'm curious about these cherry switch types as I've never felt them before. Which one would be the best value if I were to get it shipped to Canada?

The blue cherry switches are completely different from buckling springs. You only need to press down the switch about half-way, and it registers. The amount of force to actuate the switch is less than a buckling spring mechanism.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PsikyoJebus*


Also.....would it make me too much of a geek if I consider buying another mechanical keyboard like a filco? Now i'm curious about these cherry switch types as I've never felt them before. Which one would be the best value if I were to get it shipped to Canada?


Yes it would make you a big geek! But don't feel bad about it, I've got 10 boards myself









And do you want the best _value_ or the _cheapest_? Because the best value is a Filco, hands down. But the _cheapest_ would be a Chicony KB-5181 - the only thing with the Chicony is that model was made with several different types of keyswitches, so unless the seller removed a key and took a pic you're gonna be gambling on what you get. The other option would be a Scorpius M10 (around $50-$60 USD), but it doesn't have the same construction as the Filco.


----------



## Boyboyd

My god this thread has made me want one of those Happy Hacking Pro IIs now. Along with Vcheese's (i think) keyboard dying thread. I sense a plan emerging... Now to track one down in the UK.


----------



## Greensystemsgo

zomg i love that last one till i saw the price!


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boydyboyd* 
My god this thread has made me want one of those Happy Hacking Pro IIs now. Along with Vcheese's (i think) keyboard dying thread. I sense a plan emerging... Now to track one down in the UK.

tried getting some off vcheez and the shipping was bloody stupid. if you find a way let me know. im thinking getting some shiped to a us adress then forwarded from there


----------



## Zerkk

Call around to just about every PC shop around where I live and no one has any old mech keyboards! I figured maybe 1 of them would but I was sadly mistaken.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zerkk* 
Call around to just about every PC shop around where I live and no one has any old mech keyboards! I figured maybe 1 of them would but I was sadly mistaken.

The easiest keyboards to find (used, at least) are IBM Model Ms and Dell AT101Ws.

It is getting more difficult to find old mechanical keyboards, as they are being thrown out, and are often ending up in landfills.

eBay is probably one of the best ways to find old mechanical keyboards, depending on the keyboard you want, there are several different places to find them new, if they are still being made.


----------



## xJumper

I just got myself a Filco "Otaku" and it's a bit disappointing. I spend $110 for a board that feels very much like the IBM but with less stiff keys.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xJumper*


I just got myself a Filco "Otaku" and it's a bit disappointing. I spend $110 for a board that feels very much like the IBM but with less stiff keys.


That's what I love about it though, it's my favorite typing board (at least until they make a _really_ light buckling spring).









Give it a week or so, maybe once your fingers adjust to it you'll like it better.


----------



## Gurr

I was wondering how the Zero Series Filco's were. They say they're clicky XM white switches. Anyway to better explain this to me?

Link

Thanks!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gurr*


I was wondering how the Zero Series Filco's were. They say they're clicky XM white switches. Anyway to better explain this to me?

Link

Thanks!


They are stiff and pretty loud (stiffer and louder than IBMs), and their tactile bump is precise. Pretty nice to type on if you can get over the noise.


----------



## xJumper

Il probably bring the "Otaku" to work as it isn't as noisy as the IBM.

Anyway what's "Topre Force" I see these boards retail for like $250, now that's really expensive and I heard it's still a rubber dome. What's the difference?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xJumper* 
Il probably bring the "Otaku" to work as it isn't as noisy as the IBM.

Anyway what's "Topre Force" I see these boards retail for like $250, now that's really expensive and I heard it's still a rubber dome. What's the difference?

From what I know, they are a very high quality rubber dome capacitive switch. Most of the resistance on the Topre switch keyboards seems to be the domes themselves, rather than the conical spring under the domes.

As I've never tried them, I can't say how good they are.


----------



## jimwest

A little off topic, but has anybody ever used keyboard cover stickers? I'm planning on using blank stickers on the letter keys when I get my G81. I like a little bit of texture and I hate when keys rub off. (It would seem I secrete a special oil that magically erases all keyboard letters)


----------



## grantb5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


It's not the matrix itself, it's the frequency at which the controller scans it. And by controller I mean the electronics within the keyboard itself, so even an adapter won't fix it.


I'm not familiar with the DAS but this sentence is not the whole story. Most keyboards/keypads scan at a pretty fast rate (25 to 50 times per second is pretty typically). Where the bottleneck usually occurs is moving the data to the PC (and moving the data through the OS to the application).

In the case of PS/2, the keyboard is the master and the data is sent to the PC pretty much immediately. It might take a couple of milliseconds.

In the case of USB, the PC is the master and it polls the keypad at a rate according to the USB descriptors for the device. Most keyboards are low-speed USB devices and the poll rate is almost always 10ms. There are a few full-speed keyboards and keypads around, but I can't think of any names off the top of my head.

There is a thread on here about mouse speed and they do direct comparison between USB and PS/2.
http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ouse-rate.html


----------



## MijnWraak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xJumper* 
Il probably bring the "Otaku" to work as it isn't as noisy as the IBM.

Anyway what's "Topre Force" I see these boards retail for like $250, now that's really expensive and I heard it's still a rubber dome. What's the difference?

If you ever want to sell it, I might be interested once I get some more money rollin' in


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xJumper*


Il probably bring the "Otaku" to work as it isn't as noisy as the IBM.

Anyway what's "Topre Force" I see these boards retail for like $250, now that's really expensive and I heard it's still a rubber dome. What's the difference?


They are rubber domes with springs underneath, but work in a different way than other rubber domes. Instead of having a contact pad underneath that connects membranes together, it has a spring that changes the circuit's capacitance as you press the key downwards. So the weakest point of rubber domes is changed to a mechanism that can't wear out because there's no physical contact needed.

Also, like mechanical switches, they are made so that you get the tactile bump and actuation about halfway down the keystroke instead of at the bottom like other domes. You can also pick exactly how stiff you want them, all the way from 35g (the lightest switches I know of in manufactured boards).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jimwest*


A little off topic, but has anybody ever used keyboard cover stickers? I'm planning on using blank stickers on the letter keys when I get my G81. I like a little bit of texture and I hate when keys rub off. (It would seem I secrete a special oil that magically erases all keyboard letters)


I've used stickers for arabic lettering, but I didn't put them on the top of the keys, I put them on the front. I just didn't like the way they feel.

If you want keys that never wear out (at least not within the board's lifetime) look for boards with double-shot molding or dye sublimation printing. Double shot molding makes the letters actual pieces of plastic that go all the way through, and dye sublimation is where the dye sinks into the plastic and becomes part of it. Just to give you an idea of exactly how long these last - double shot molding was used a lot on super old '60s and '70s typewriters, and dye sublimation was used on the IBM model M. Today, 25-50 years later, the lettering still shows.

Cherry uses all types of printing on their boards (these two, lasering, and silk screening), and I know VCheeZ had a few double-shot molded ones, so if you ordered from him you might be in luck. Either way, when you get it, if you aren't sure what type of printing is used take a really close up picture of the letter and the underside of the key and I'll let you know.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *grantb5*


I'm not familiar with the DAS but this sentence is not the whole story. Most keyboards/keypads scan at a pretty fast rate (25 to 50 times per second is pretty typically). Where the bottleneck usually occurs is moving the data to the PC (and moving the data through the OS to the application).

In the case of PS/2, the keyboard is the master and the data is sent to the PC pretty much immediately. It might take a couple of milliseconds.

In the case of USB, the PC is the master and it polls the keypad at a rate according to the USB descriptors for the device. Most keyboards are low-speed USB devices and the poll rate is almost always 10ms. There are a few full-speed keyboards and keypads around, but I can't think of any names off the top of my head.

There is a thread on here about mouse speed and they do direct comparison between USB and PS/2.
http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ouse-rate.html


While you are mostly correct (except the default polling rate is 125Hz, or 8ms, and most keyboards actually scan the matrix at several kHz), It's not that the Das keyboard is laggy. It's that if you type really fast or press two consecutive keys really fast the keyboard will transpose letters on you. The word "fling" can come out as "filgn". This has nothing to do with the speed of the connection to the PC, only the speed of the matrix scanning and the algorithm used. This was also admitted by the CEO as a problem, and if I can find the quote again I'll come back and edit this post with a link.

And if you want some proper information about PS/2 vs USB, check out these:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t...+USB+ms&page=2
http://www.computer-engineering.org/ps2protocol/
http://www.computer-engineering.org/ps2keyboard/
http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb1.htm
http://www.beyondlogic.org/keyboard/keybrd.htm

It's a lot of info that boils down to two things when it comes to speed: PS/2 has a shorter delay to _first_ keystroke (and then some). So when you first press a key it appears on the screen faster than USB. However, USB has a higher overall bandwidth, so theoretically you can press more keys within a shorter amount of time - but no human can type fast enough to reach the limit of even PS/2.


----------



## Zerkk

OH SNAP! Found an old IMB Model M in the back of the office! Sounds like a paperclip is loose inside of it so I hope it still works! I'm pretty excited that I found one!


----------



## reedo

thanks manyak fer writing this you were the reason i needed a mechanical keyboard, you opened my eyes


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Zerkk*


OH SNAP! Found an old IMB Model M in the back of the office! Sounds like a paperclip is loose inside of it so I hope it still works! I'm pretty excited that I found one!


Its probably a few plastic rivets...a very common occurrence with the Model M, but it shouldn't hurt the workings of the board.


----------



## Micam93

So, if any of you get the Elitekeyboards newsletter, you've read the awesome news








104-key Filco Majestouch Tactile Clicks--with the Cherry MX Blue switches--with full NKRO, in printed keys and "Otaku" (blank keys). Also comes with a free red Esc key, in case you wanted to know







. People who get the newsletter can preorder now; those who don't have to wait until the 27th (admittedly, only two days).


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Micam93* 
So, if any of you get the Elitekeyboards newsletter, you've read the awesome news








104-key Filco Majestouch Tactile Clicks--with the Cherry MX Blue switches--with full NKRO, in printed keys and "Otaku" (blank keys). Also comes with a free red Esc key, in case you wanted to know







. People who get the newsletter can preorder now; those who don't have to wait until the 27th (admittedly, only two days).

I'm so dying to pull the trigger on one :/

And coming soon in Cherry Blue and Brown variants (no joke):

























If you've got a girl in your life who likes pink, this keyboard along with an Iron Lady mouse would be the perfect gift


----------



## KipH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Micam93* 
So, if any of you get the Elitekeyboards newsletter, you've read the awesome news








104-key Filco Majestouch Tactile Clicks--with the Cherry MX Blue switches--with full NKRO, in printed keys and "Otaku" (blank keys). Also comes with a free red Esc key, in case you wanted to know







. People who get the newsletter can preorder now; those who don't have to wait until the 27th (admittedly, only two days).

Any word on price? Or hows about a linky as I am too lazy to Google









I would get that pinky for my daughter if I could get wife to let me spend that sorta $$ on a 3year old







But it may be the only thing she would not destroy, but she would use it to destroy other less well made things.


----------



## timw4mail

Just an anecdote:

I have a Scorpius M10, and I ordered a set of blank Filco keys from Elite Keyboards.

There are only two keys that don't fit, the right Win key, and the Context Menu key.

So, if you are strapped for cash, and can figure out what to do with those two keys, you could make an "Otaku" Scorpius M10.

Although, if you aren't patient with small parts, you might have some difficulty with the keys that require stabilizers.


----------



## Goobers

im confused, they all look like normal keybaords what makes them mechanical


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Goobers*


im confused, they all look like normal keybaords what makes them mechanical


It's the mechanism under the keycaps. The easiest way to tell if a keyboard is mechanical is if there is some sort of switch under a keycap.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


Any word on price? Or hows about a linky as I am too lazy to Google









I would get that pinky for my daughter if I could get wife to let me spend that sorta $$ on a 3year old







But it may be the only thing she would not destroy, but she would use it to destroy other less well made things.


It's not out yet, but by the way he prices the limited edition Cherry Blue boards the same as everything else, I doubt it will cost much more, if _any_ more at all than the standard models.

At worst, the same price as the Red ones.


----------



## honk_honk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


Any word on price? Or hows about a linky as I am too lazy to Google









I would get that pinky for my daughter if I could get wife to let me spend that sorta $$ on a 3year old







But it may be the only thing she would not destroy, but she would use it to destroy other less well made things.


Both of the Filco Blue keyboards are priced at $129

Printed
Otaku


If it bothers anyone that I posted the links because the email said not to, I'll take 'em off.


----------



## urocyon

Stumbled onto this thread from a google tangent and having read through the whole thing I signed up here just so I could add a few random, disjointed comments.

One question which came up a lot is why mechanical is better. Sheer comfort has already been covered extensively enough. Accuracy has been hinted at--many cheaper keyboards are rather inconsistent in their response depending on if you hit the keys perfectly centered or not, in addition to the lack of good feedback as to whether a key has registered. Another reason which I haven't seen mentioned yet is the long term effects on your hands; after some thirty odd years of keyboard use I can definitely say that the standard membrane keyboards do strain my wrists after a while. In fact, it was my hunt for a new keyboard which lead me here.

Someone along the way commented that the old IBM PC/AT keyboards lack the positioning nubs for touch-typing. Many older keyboards had F and J keys which were more concave than the rest, which served the same function and which I found much more comfortable. I hated the nubs when they first started appearing and it took a few years to finally get used to having my fingertips stabbed by the various incarnations, from dots in the middle of the key to the bar-shaped ones at the bottom.

Someone else asked for a programmable mechanical keyboard. Just as the Model M is now made and sold by Unicomp, the old Northgate OmniKeys are now made by Creative Vision. They're based on ALPS switches, white if I remember right, and for programmable keys you want the Avant Stellar.

Speculation was made regarding the keyboards made by Deck's parent company, TG3. I spoke with Brian Carpenter of TG3 and got a few answers already. The mechanical switches they use are Cherry MX black. There's a rubber membrane which helps spillproof them, and which also lends a slight tactile feel. Sorry, no brown or blue switches.

Right now I'm trying out a Deck 87-key. One of the first things I noticed was that Deck uses PCB-mount keyswitches, and there's absolutely nothing protecting the PCB but the keycaps. Any liquid or metal (such as paperclips) accidentally getting between the keys means an almost certain short circuit. This seems like a serious design flaw, since it would take little to include even slight shielding, either molded in as part of the case or as a rubber sheet. I also can't stand the linear keys for typing, so it's going to be returned.

I have a HHKB Lite kicking around too. Despite being membrane, it seems to be built to better tolerances than most, mostlymitigating the problems of hitting keys off-center. Not the best feel, not quite the worst either.

It almost seems like the ideal setup might be a linear response 10-key specifically for gaming in place of the wasd mapping, since it's mainly the directionals which benefit from that type of keyswitch. Something like one of the X-Keys could work pretty well for that, negating the need for one full keyboard for gaming and another for typing.


----------



## killerxx7

I have had my G11 for about 4 years and have been typing heavily on it every day and she is still as good as the day i got it,but i got a g15(second model) and its a nice keyboard the keys feel flimsy and boring to type on.
Iv been looking around for a decent mechanical board to buy. (im kicking myself for throwing out my old IBM model M







)


----------



## Zerkk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *killerxx7*


I have had my G11 for about 4 years and have been typing heavily on it every day and she is still as good as the day i got it,but i got a g15(second model) and its a nice keyboard the keys feel flimsy and boring to type on.
Iv been looking around for a decent mechanical board to buy. (im kicking myself for throwing out my old IBM model M







)


I'm enjoying the model M I found, I've come to the conclusion I don't like playing WoW with it but give me an FPS and I'm in love. It probably doesn't help that I don't have a wrist rest for when I use the Model M so my wood desk kills my writs


----------



## lb_felipe

http://www.roccat.org/Products/Gamin...s/ROCCAT-Valo/ Does this keyboard use mechanical keys?

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/ke.../4740&cl=us,en And this, does it use them?

Quote:



(...)

For those of you who are curious with what I think of other keyboards in terms of typing quality, here's a small list of how I rank them. 100 is the best, 0 is the worst.

100 -
95 - IBM Model M
90 -
85 - IBM Thinkpad keyboard
80 - Logitech DiNovo keyboards (not the Mini though, for obvious reasons)
75 - Logitech G15
70 - Microsoft Sidewinder X6
65 - Logitech Illuminated (the space row's hump costs it a bit)
60 -
55 -
50 - Filco Majestouch
45 -
40 - Logitech Classic Keyboard ($13 and actually has decent feedback; cheap construction means the keys are too stiff to press however)
35 - Razer Lycosa (rubber coating is nice but the keys are too loose)
30 -
25 -
20 - Just about any other keyboard on the market
15 -
10 - Steelseries 7G
5 -
0 -


Source: http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/sh....php?t=2385473

Please, see and comment.


----------



## Izvire

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*


http://www.roccat.org/Products/Gamin...s/ROCCAT-Valo/ Does this keyboard use mechanical keys?

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/ke.../4740&cl=us,en And this, does it use them?

Source: http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/sh....php?t=2385473

Please, see and comment.


Neither use mechanical keys.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *urocyon* 
Stumbled onto this thread from a google tangent and having read through the whole thing I signed up here just so I could add a few random, disjointed comments.

One question which came up a lot is why mechanical is better. Sheer comfort has already been covered extensively enough. Accuracy has been hinted at--many cheaper keyboards are rather inconsistent in their response depending on if you hit the keys perfectly centered or not, in addition to the lack of good feedback as to whether a key has registered. Another reason which I haven't seen mentioned yet is the long term effects on your hands; after some thirty odd years of keyboard use I can definitely say that the standard membrane keyboards do strain my wrists after a while. In fact, it was my hunt for a new keyboard which lead me here.

Someone along the way commented that the old IBM PC/AT keyboards lack the positioning nubs for touch-typing. Many older keyboards had F and J keys which were more concave than the rest, which served the same function and which I found much more comfortable. I hated the nubs when they first started appearing and it took a few years to finally get used to having my fingertips stabbed by the various incarnations, from dots in the middle of the key to the bar-shaped ones at the bottom.

Someone else asked for a programmable mechanical keyboard. Just as the Model M is now made and sold by Unicomp, the old Northgate OmniKeys are now made by Creative Vision. They're based on ALPS switches, white if I remember right, and for programmable keys you want the Avant Stellar.

Speculation was made regarding the keyboards made by Deck's parent company, TG3. I spoke with Brian Carpenter of TG3 and got a few answers already. The mechanical switches they use are Cherry MX black. There's a rubber membrane which helps spillproof them, and which also lends a slight tactile feel. Sorry, no brown or blue switches.

Right now I'm trying out a Deck 87-key. One of the first things I noticed was that Deck uses PCB-mount keyswitches, and there's absolutely nothing protecting the PCB but the keycaps. Any liquid or metal (such as paperclips) accidentally getting between the keys means an almost certain short circuit. This seems like a serious design flaw, since it would take little to include even slight shielding, either molded in as part of the case or as a rubber sheet. I also can't stand the linear keys for typing, so it's going to be returned.

I have a HHKB Lite kicking around too. Despite being membrane, it seems to be built to better tolerances than most, mostlymitigating the problems of hitting keys off-center. Not the best feel, not quite the worst either.

It almost seems like the ideal setup might be a linear response 10-key specifically for gaming in place of the wasd mapping, since it's mainly the directionals which benefit from that type of keyswitch. Something like one of the X-Keys could work pretty well for that, negating the need for one full keyboard for gaming and another for typing.

I can tell you one thing for absolute certain - a good mechanical board _will_ remove some strain off your wrist, so you're on the right track. My girlfriend had the same wrist pains she'd get whenever she used a computer. It lasted for several months before she listened to me and tried out a board with Cherry MX Browns. A week later they were completely gone.

Also, the speculation you were seeing about Deck's keyboards were from when they announced that they were going to release a tactile board this summer but wouldn't say with which switches. They used Cherry Whites/Clears (however you want to call them), which are basically just Cherry Browns with a stiffer spring.

I agree about the extra small mechanical pad for gaming. I was looking at X-Keys as well, but they're pretty expensive. Their 20 key model is too small and won't give you many controls around your fingers, and the pad one step up costs $170 - way more than another whole keyboard costs. So for gaming it's not really worth it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *killerxx7* 
I have had my G11 for about 4 years and have been typing heavily on it every day and she is still as good as the day i got it,but i got a g15(second model) and its a nice keyboard the keys feel flimsy and boring to type on.
Iv been looking around for a decent mechanical board to buy. (im kicking myself for throwing out my old IBM model M







)


If you don't care how old it is, look at the list at the end of the OP, there are a bunch of keyboards you can find on ebay for cheap there!


----------



## urocyon

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
I can tell you one thing for absolute certain - a good mechanical board _will_ remove some strain off your wrist

Oh I know, I have a stack of Model Ms I've collected over the years. I'm currently in need of something in USB, and have been exploring various niceties such as ergo, compact, backlit, programmable, swappable ctrl/capslock, and so forth. I may just wind up getting a ps/2-to-usb adapter for my crusty old IBM boards and be done with it though.

Quote:

Also, the speculation you were seeing about Deck's keyboards
Actually, my comment was about the TG3 keyboards, not Deck.

Quote:

I agree about the extra small mechanical pad for gaming. I was looking at X-Keys as well, but they're pretty expensive.
True, they are a bit spendy. A Filco tenkey would be cheaper and is also available in linear, I just personally liked the flexibility of the X-Keys for use outside of gaming as well, since they're fully programmable; that way you could configure it to conform to wasd controls when gaming instead of remapping all your games, then use it as a tenkey or media controller or whatever else when not gaming. If I don't wind up getting an Avant Steller, I'll probably at least get an X-Keys Stick just for the macroable keyset.

Currently I'm rather attracted to the Filco tenkeyless. Does anyone know if their (non-blank) keycaps are insert molded, making them suitable for backlit mods?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *urocyon*


Oh I know, I have a stack of Model Ms I've collected over the years. I'm currently in need of something in USB, and have been exploring various niceties such as ergo, compact, backlit, programmable, swappable ctrl/capslock, and so forth. I may just wind up getting a ps/2-to-usb adapter for my crusty old IBM boards and be done with it though.

Actually, my comment was about the TG3 keyboards, not Deck.

True, they are a bit spendy. A Filco tenkey would be cheaper and is also available in linear, I just personally liked the flexibility of the X-Keys for use outside of gaming as well, since they're fully programmable; that way you could configure it to conform to wasd controls when gaming instead of remapping all your games, then use it as a tenkey or media controller or whatever else when not gaming. If I don't wind up getting an Avant Steller, I'll probably at least get an X-Keys Stick just for the macroable keyset.

Currently I'm rather attracted to the Filco tenkeyless. Does anyone know if their (non-blank) keycaps are insert molded, making them suitable for backlit mods?


Nope, they are silk screened. And even if they _were_ two-shot molded, the keycap stem that hooks onto the switch is almost always done with the lettering mold, not the surrounding. So if you punch the letter out, the stem will come out with it. You'd have to punch out the lettering, cut it off, and then put the key back together - 104 times. Not very fun.

You _can_ buy ready made keys for backlighting from signature plastics and some other places, but they are pretty expensive (Filco's use DCS style keys where each row is a different height and angle, in case you do call them up to ask for a pricing).

Also - those USB adapters aren't always the greatest. A lot of them have problems with keys being held down. So if you use one with a Model M, you'll need something separate for gaming almost for sure.

And - if you want some real flexibility with programming a keyboard, get Autohotkey. You can program absolutely any key or combination of keys to do anything you want. Much cheaper than using an X-keys. What I do is use the right Ctrl, Alt, and Windows keys as modifiers for macros and program launching (hell, you have two of each, why not make the ones you don't need useful?). Works very well


----------



## Atomagenesis

Woooo! I just ordered my Cherry G80-3000LSCRC-2!

I can't wait to see how these Cherry MX Blue's feel. I used to have a SteelSeries Ikari 7g, but typing on that thing actually made my hands tired because of the black switches. Anyway, I was reading on some other forums and apparently this is like the greatest keyboard on earth. I could only find two sites that had them in stock and one of them had one in stock but it was in Chinese, so I didn't end up getting it, but I got one from another site and it's on its way. I will take pics when I get it, hopefully it will be in good condition.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Atomagenesis* 
Woooo! I just ordered my Cherry G80-3000LSCRC-2!

I can't wait to see how these Cherry MX Blue's feel. I used to have a SteelSeries Ikari 7g, but typing on that thing actually made my hands tired because of the black switches. Anyway, I was reading on some other forums and apparently this is like the greatest keyboard on earth. I could only find two sites that had them in stock and one of them had one in stock but it was in Chinese, so I didn't end up getting it, but I got one from another site and it's on its way. I will take pics when I get it, hopefully it will be in good condition.


The blue switches are nice, although not my favorite switch.

However, they are a nice switch to start with, and are pleasant to type with. I think you managed to find the hardest to find keyboard with the Blue MX switches.

Be sure to report how you like it, or don't like it when you get it.


----------



## KipH

Could you send me a link to the one in Chinese? My wife might like it


----------



## Atomagenesis

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
Could you send me a link to the one in Chinese? My wife might like it









TotalBarcode.com


----------



## Atomagenesis

Well I just got my cherry g80-3000lscrc-2 and it has english and chinese on it, pretty unique and cool. The space bar switch is a little stiffer than I thought it was going to be, but the board types really well nonetheless. It's interesting as I have never typed on Cherry MX Blue's before, but they feel wonderful to type on. It reminds me of a cross between a membrane keyboard and a MX Black board but with a little click. It is very responsive, easy to type quickly with. I can see what people mean about the Cherry MX Black being the best for gaming though, but you can still practically do the same thing with this board, although it has to engage the click switch in order to register, but with an MX black you just lightly press the key and it engages the input data. Anyway, I am going to put a picture of it later.

Cheers.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Atomagenesis* 
Well I just got my cherry g80-3000lscrc-2 and it has english and chinese on it, pretty unique and cool. The space bar switch is a little stiffer than I thought it was going to be, but the board types really well nonetheless. It's interesting as I have never typed on Cherry MX Blue's before, but they feel wonderful to type on. It reminds me of a cross between a membrane keyboard and a MX Black board but with a little click. It is very responsive, easy to type quickly with. I can see what people mean about the Cherry MX Black being the best for gaming though, but you can still practically do the same thing with this board, although it has to engage the click switch in order to register, but with an MX black you just lightly press the key and it engages the input data. Anyway, I am going to put a picture of it later.

Cheers.

Glad you like it









FYI, take the spacebar key off and I bet you'll find that it's actually a Green switch instead of Blue. Cherry likes to make their spacebars stiffer than the rest because people like me tend to hit them really hard.


----------



## Atomagenesis

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Glad you like it









FYI, take the spacebar key off and I bet you'll find that it's actually a Green switch instead of Blue. Cherry likes to make their spacebars stiffer than the rest because people like me tend to hit them really hard.

Heh, yeah I don't think im gonna take it off right now to check but I'm sure you're right about it being a different switch, reminds me a lot of the MX Black space bar. I tend to be kind of gentle on my keys except when im playing Halo PC. I think I might replace the LED's on this board since they look a little dull. Pics go up tonight.


----------



## Atomagenesis

Alright here are the pics of the keyboard. Pretty sweet. The first picture is my office where the horrendous membrane keyboard I had before once sat. And yes, under my desk are three SCSI 15k RPM Cheetah's. Anyway, the new keyboard rules.

Edit: You were right about there being a Cherry MX Green switch under my spacebar, that's pretty cool. I've never seen one before, it has an interesting feel to it, but I will never again take off the space bar to look at the switch, it was the biggest pain in the butt ever to put back on, took me like 45 minutes.


----------



## MijnWraak

Hm, right now I'm torn between the mx blue and mx brown. I consider myself a pretty light typer, I really hated those MY linear springs and my brother's crappy logitech membrane is a PITA to hit keys. Is there much of a difference between the brown and blue? I wouldn't want to bottom out every key, though, so does the blue require that much force?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MijnWraak* 
Hm, right now I'm torn between the mx blue and mx brown. I consider myself a pretty light typer, I really hated those MY linear springs and my brother's crappy logitech membrane is a PITA to hit keys. Is there much of a difference between the brown and blue? I wouldn't want to bottom out every key, though, so does the blue require that much force?

Whichever of the two you get you're gonna be bottoming out for a week or two - it takes a bit to get fully used to them.

But yeah there's quite a difference between the two switches. The tactile bump on the blues is more pronounced and sharp (that's where all your force is needed), but the bump on the browns feels very soft and more gradual.

I used to really, really like Blues myself but I think I'm starting to lean towards using Browns again because of how light they are.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Atomagenesis* 
Alright here are the pics of the keyboard. Pretty sweet. The first picture is my office where the horrendous membrane keyboard I had before once sat. And yes, under my desk are three SCSI 15k RPM Cheetah's. Anyway, the new keyboard rules.

Edit: You were right about there being a Cherry MX Green switch under my spacebar, that's pretty cool. I've never seen one before, it has an interesting feel to it, but I will never again take off the space bar to look at the switch, it was the biggest pain in the butt ever to put back on, took me like 45 minutes.

Good stuffs







. Yeah I've always been wondering why they never made a board completely with Cherry Greens, just for the hell of it maybe someone would like it. And I'd be interested in trying it at least.


----------



## Atomagenesis

Heh, they would never make a board with all Cherry Green's because everyone's hands would fall off after typing on them for more than 5 minutes, they remind me of a Black switch except with a click bump.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Atomagenesis* 
Heh, they would never make a board with all Cherry Green's because everyone's hands would fall off after typing on them for more than 5 minutes, they remind me of a Black switch except with a click bump.

Heh, if you think they're bad try White Alps


----------



## honk_honk

What's wrong with white alps?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *honk_honk* 
What's wrong with white alps?









They need a _ton_ of force to get over their tactile bump.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


They need a _ton_ of force to get over their tactile bump.


Black ALPS are just as bad, I think. (Although I don't have a White ALPS board to compare with them)


----------



## MijnWraak

Just ordered the 104-key MX Blue Filco! Hopefully will be $140 well spent







Can't wait!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


Black ALPS are just as bad, I think. (Although I don't have a White ALPS board to compare with them)



Whites are still worse









Just to make sure we're on the same page though, I'm talking about the simplified ones. One of the few switches I've never tried are the original white alps.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MijnWraak*


Just ordered the 104-key MX Blue Filco! Hopefully will be $140 well spent







Can't wait!


Awesome









They are _so_ much different than the MY switches you tried, I think you'll like them


----------



## MijnWraak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Whites are still worse









Just to make sure we're on the same page though, I'm talking about the simplified ones. One of the few switches I've never tried are the original white alps.

Awesome









They are _so_ much different than the MY switches you tried, I think you'll like them










I hope so







. Will be coming next Thursday, woo! I don't care how loud they are, I need revenge for when my brother blasts his WoW in the room next to mine


----------



## Lr0dy

It's funny, but I signed up just to post in this thread.

So I went searching through my closet of old computers today, and I happened to find two old gems: an IBM PC/AT 84 buckling springs keyboard (holy heavy Batman!), and even better, a Chicony 5161 PC-AT keyboard with Cherry MX Blue switches!

Sadly, I'm stuck on my laptop until all the parts get in for my new computer; but just playing with these keyboards feels _so_ much nicer than my crappy rubber dome board. I can't wait to play with them.

Main reason for posting, though, was as a thank you -- if not for this thread, I never would have gone searching through my closet looking for old mechanicals. I never would have rediscovered the joy of typing on a real keyboard.

So thank you.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lr0dy*


It's funny, but I signed up just to post in this thread.

So I went searching through my closet of old computers today, and I happened to find two old gems: an IBM PC/AT 84 buckling springs keyboard (holy heavy Batman!), and even better, a Chicony 5161 PC-AT keyboard with Cherry MX Blue switches!

Sadly, I'm stuck on my laptop until all the parts get in for my new computer; but just playing with these keyboards feels _so_ much nicer than my crappy rubber dome board. I can't wait to play with them.

Main reason for posting, though, was as a thank you -- if not for this thread, I never would have gone searching through my closet looking for old mechanicals. I never would have rediscovered the joy of typing on a real keyboard.

So thank you.


You found an AT Model F? That's loads better than a lousy Chicony.


----------



## Lr0dy

Didn't realise the IBM keyboard was a model F.

Hm... I hope it works.

It has a birthdate of 30 March 1987, and it's a British Citizen (made in the UK).


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lr0dy*


It's funny, but I signed up just to post in this thread.

So I went searching through my closet of old computers today, and I happened to find two old gems: an IBM PC/AT 84 buckling springs keyboard (holy heavy Batman!), and even better, a Chicony 5161 PC-AT keyboard with Cherry MX Blue switches!

Sadly, I'm stuck on my laptop until all the parts get in for my new computer; but just playing with these keyboards feels _so_ much nicer than my crappy rubber dome board. I can't wait to play with them.

Main reason for posting, though, was as a thank you -- if not for this thread, I never would have gone searching through my closet looking for old mechanicals. I never would have rediscovered the joy of typing on a real keyboard.

So thank you.


You are absolutely welcome







. But hey you don't have to wait - just get some AT->PS/2 and PS/2->USB adapters and you'll be able to use those boards on your laptop









Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


You found an AT Model F? That's loads better than a lousy Chicony.


That sounds more like a Model M Mini. The Model F has 83 keys, and 84 key boards = tenkeyless.


----------



## Lr0dy

Tenkeyless indicates that it has no numeric keypad, correct? Well, this keyboard definitely does. F1 through F10 are on the left, Numeric keypad is on the right, like this:


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lr0dy*


Tenkeyless indicates that it has no numeric keypad, correct? Well, this keyboard definitely does. F1 through F10 are on the left, Numeric keypad is on the right, like this:











Ok then yeah tim was right, that's a model F.

But count the keys...it has 83, not 84.


----------



## Lr0dy

I did, it has 84. The 84th key is the Sys Req key.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lr0dy*


I did, it has 84. The 84th key is the Sys Req key.


Well crap, I didn't pay enough attention to the numpad!


----------



## Lr0dy

She is a beauty, though. I've been typing on it for fun for a little while now, and I don't think I've ever typed on anything so amazing. It just feels faster and more accurate... Precise is an accurate description.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lr0dy*


She is a beauty, though. I've been typing on it for fun for a little while now, and I don't think I've ever typed on anything so amazing. It just feels faster and more accurate... Precise is an accurate description.


If it weren't for my newly discovered liking for the low-force Cherry brown switches, I would be typing on my very noisy Model F now.

Unlike the Model M keyboards, the Model F bottoms out without suddenly tremendously increasing the amount of force. It's easier to bottom out, but bottoming out isn't nearly as hard on your fingers.

On the flipside, I'm really liking black ALPS switches less and less, requiring so much force to actuate, and being so easy to bottom out...it's both tiring and painful on my fingers...and this is coming from someone who used to do gaming on a Model M.

Just curious, have you been able to run your Model F directly on your PS/2 ports on your computer? (With an AT->PS/2 adapter of course). Mine seems to require too much power to run off of my PS/2 ports, and I have to use a USB adapter. This was basically my only frustration with my Model F, having to deal with the keyboard resetting...especially when it decided to reset in the middle of typing something...now I have to type that again...the keyboard reset in the middle of what I was typing...

Anyway, glad you like the Model F. It's definitely one of my all-time favorite keyboards.


----------



## Northdash

I recently viewed this thread a few days ago. After talking to Manyak (thanks for the advice!), I decided to try out a mechanical keyboard. I was hesitant since all I've ever used were your standard free or gaming keyboards. I've used a G15 for the last few years now.

I managed to pick up the ABS M1 for 40 bucks and figured I would give it a shot. I LOVE IT. It took awhile to get used to it but by the third day I was a believer. I love the feel and sound of the keyboard. I honestly have my G15 tucked away for now. It's just kind of a rewarding feeling hearing every keystroke







.

Since I do a lot of gaming, I will be probably picking up the SteelSeries 7G or Majestouch Linear Force.

Thanks for the informative post and opening a whole new world of typing.


----------



## Atomagenesis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Northdash*


I recently viewed this thread a few days ago. After talking to Manyak (thanks for the advice!), I decided to try out a mechanical keyboard. I was hesitant since all I've ever used were your standard free or gaming keyboards. I've used a G15 for the last few years now.

I managed to pick up the ABS M1 for 40 bucks and figured I would give it a shot. I LOVE IT. It took awhile to get used to it but by the third day I was a believer. I love the feel and sound of the keyboard. I honestly have my G15 tucked away for now. It's just kind of a rewarding feeling hearing every keystroke







.

Since I do a lot of gaming, I will be probably picking up the SteelSeries 7G or Majestouch Linear Force.

Thanks for the informative post and opening a whole new world of typing.


If you can, I would look for a cheaper board then the SteelSeries 7g that has black switches. I liked the SteelSeries 6g I had, but it was a bit tiring to type on, so if you type a lot as well as game, you might want to think about a different type of switch. But if I had the money I would probably get one, cause they are amazing for gaming, the black switches that is, the blue are very close behind, but the black's are just a tad bit more sensitive than the blue's.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Atomagenesis*


If you can, I would look for a cheaper board then the SteelSeries 7g that has black switches. I liked the SteelSeries 6g I had, but it was a bit tiring to type on, so if you type a lot as well as game, you might want to think about a different type of switch. But if I had the money I would probably get one, cause they are amazing for gaming, the black switches that is, the blue are very close behind, but the black's are just a tad bit more sensitive than the blue's.


The other problem with blues is that once they actuate you have to go pretty far back up for it to..err..unactuate. But the only games I've seen it matter in are the Unreals (double-tapping to dodge).


----------



## MijnWraak

Just received the Filco! I'm definitely glad I didn't go with the Browns, as the blues are really light as it is. Unfortunately, I think this board is defective. The 'A' key sticks down half way after hitting it and randomly goes off, and the space bar double taps once in awhile. Going to have to wait another week or two for a keyboard. agh!!!!!

You'd think when you pay $140 for a keyboard, they'd get it right and test their boards.

edit: after typing for 5 minutes, the A key seems to be getting a bit better, but still going to get a replacement or even a refund. I will give it a few days to get used to it, but I don't really enjoy typing on this. After the tactile bump, it actuates, but it also un-actuates before you hit the bump again and you can hit the key without feeling the tactile click/bump. I'll still give it a chance, don't worry.

The backspace button is also really pissing me offfffff AND THE F KEY. argh. The backspace button has a deadzone for about 1-2mm, then requires more force than other keys to get through the bump. Now the F key is sticking halfway actuated. This really seems like a complete waste of money to me.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MijnWraak* 
Just received the Filco! I'm definitely glad I didn't go with the Browns, as the blues are really light as it is. Unfortunately, I think this board is defective. The 'A' key sticks down half way after hitting it and randomly goes off, and the space bar double taps once in awhile. Going to have to wait another week or two for a keyboard. agh!!!!!

You'd think when you pay $140 for a keyboard, they'd get it right and test their boards.

edit: after typing for 5 minutes, the A key seems to be getting a bit better, but still going to get a replacement or even a refund. I will give it a few days to get used to it, but I don't really enjoy typing on this. After the tactile bump, it actuates, but it also un-actuates before you hit the bump again and you can hit the key without feeling the tactile click/bump. I'll still give it a chance, don't worry.

The backspace button is also really pissing me offfffff AND THE F KEY. argh. The backspace button has a deadzone for about 1-2mm, then requires more force than other keys to get through the bump. Now the F key is sticking halfway actuated. This really seems like a complete waste of money to me.

Wow, you must have gotten one seriously defective board. Nothing should stick, have a deadzone, or chatter. Wow, lol.

But yeah, the one thing with cherry blues is that they the unactuation point is higher than the actuation point, making it weird double-tapping sometimes.

By the way, the only switches that have an _exact_ correlation between the tactility and the actuation are buckling springs. If you find blues to be really light then they might be better for you anyway (and a lot cheaper lol).


----------



## MijnWraak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Wow, you must have gotten one seriously defective board. Nothing should stick, have a deadzone, or chatter. Wow, lol.

But yeah, the one thing with cherry blues is that they the unactuation point is higher than the actuation point, making it weird double-tapping sometimes.

By the way, the only switches that have an _exact_ correlation between the tactility and the actuation are buckling springs. If you find blues to be really light then they might be better for you anyway (and a lot cheaper lol).









Yeah I'm definitely getting a refuind for this, I type better on my laptop's scissor keys! I can't stand seeing random 'a's in a paragraph, it's just really frustrating knowing you paid $140 and you get this. Really disappointing. And to be honest, I don't really see that big of a difference between this and a G15; the bump, in my opinion, is distracting and an annoyance. Maybe it's just this one I received since there are a lot of variation in the keys which is distracting as well.

Oh well, at least I gave it a shot!









edit: the lightness is fine when the tactile bump actually works correctly, but the backspace in particular just plain feels WRONG!


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MijnWraak*


Yeah I'm definitely getting a refuind for this, I type better on my laptop's scissor keys! I can't stand seeing random 'a's in a paragraph, it's just really frustrating knowing you paid $140 and you get this. Really disappointing. And to be honest, I don't really see that big of a difference between this and a G15; the bump, in my opinion, is distracting and an annoyance. Maybe it's just this one I received since there are a lot of variation in the keys which is distracting as well.

Oh well, at least I gave it a shot!









edit: the lightness is fine when the tactile bump actually works correctly, but the backspace in particular just plain feels WRONG!


That's really strange, as I've never seen as much variation in Cherry switches, whether blue, or brown, as I have in ALPS, buckling springs, or other types of switches.


----------



## MijnWraak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


That's really strange, as I've never seen as much variation in Cherry switches, whether blue, or brown, as I have in ALPS, buckling springs, or other types of switches.


This is obviously the keyboard from Hell, then! The A key sticks, the F key has a slight dead zone, the backspace key is just stupid, and the E key takes more pressure to actuate.

Maybe I should get a replacement instead of refund? Maybe it's just this one...


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MijnWraak*


This is obviously the keyboard from Hell, then! The A key sticks, the F key has a slight dead zone, the backspace key is just stupid, and the E key takes more pressure to actuate.

Maybe I should get a replacement instead of refund? Maybe it's just this one...



I would suggest just trying to get a replacement.


----------



## MijnWraak

Elitekeyboard.com's customer service is excellent, even gave me some info about the blue switches that I haven't read in this thread:

"The Blue Cherry MX switches used in the board have a complicated
[mechanism] inside that sometimes has small manufacturing artifacts that
in a few cases cause the switch to stick before it is "worn in." These
stuck keys can usually be fixed by pressing them hard 50
times"-Brian @ elitekeyboards.com

So after being broken in a bit, it seems to be a bit better. I guess I didn't give it enough time before complaining









I definitely type faster and less mistakes than my laptop keyboard after getting used to it a bit. Less chattering now too! Hopefully I won't need to get a replacement but it's looking good so far


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MijnWraak*


Elitekeyboard.com's customer service is excellent, even gave me some info about the blue switches that I haven't read in this thread:

"The Blue Cherry MX switches used in the board have a complicated
[mechanism] inside that sometimes has small manufacturing artifacts that
in a few cases cause the switch to stick before it is "worn in." These
stuck keys can usually be fixed by pressing them hard 50
times"-Brian @ elitekeyboards.com

So after being broken in a bit, it seems to be a bit better. I guess I didn't give it enough time before complaining









I definitely type faster and less mistakes than my laptop keyboard after getting used to it a bit. Less chattering now too! Hopefully I won't need to get a replacement but it's looking good so far










Yeah you really got the short end of the stick with this board, I've bought about 15 mechanical boards of all different types of switches, and out of those only one key has ever chattered (and it was on a 20 year old board).

And yeah the elitekeyboards guy is awesome. When he first opened up the store I suggested to him maybe try and get the boards on newegg, but he said he wouldn't do business with them because of their shady pricing practices. And even these limited edition Cherry Blues that he gets aren't marked up over the other boards, even though they are generally in higher demand. He's got real business ethics







.

Either way - the nice thing about these switches is that even if you end up with a bad switch after the warranty period is over, you can simply buy a replacement from digi-key for a dollar and change and solder it in yourself.

And yeah the tactile bump is kind of distracting at first, but that's because you're still typing like you do on rubber domes. Try and consider the tactile bump as the bottom of the switch, and once you hit it you can let go. You aren't supposed to be hitting the actual bottoms at all







.


----------



## MijnWraak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Yeah you really got the short end of the stick with this board, I've bought about 15 mechanical boards of all different types of switches, and out of those only one key has ever chattered (and it was on a 20 year old board).

And yeah the elitekeyboards guy is awesome. When he first opened up the store I suggested to him maybe try and get the boards on newegg, but he said he wouldn't do business with them because of their shady pricing practices. And even these limited edition Cherry Blues that he gets aren't marked up over the other boards, even though they are generally in higher demand. He's got real business ethics







.

Either way - the nice thing about these switches is that even if you end up with a bad switch after the warranty period is over, you can simply buy a replacement from digi-key for a dollar and change and solder it in yourself.

And yeah the tactile bump is kind of distracting at first, but that's because you're still typing like you do on rubber domes. Try and consider the tactile bump as the bottom of the switch, and once you hit it you can let go. You aren't supposed to be hitting the actual bottoms at all








.


Yeah it's a hard transition since there's very little feedback before the bump, but I'm sure I'll get used to it eventually haha. But I told the guy I'll give it some time to get broken in, I haven't had it chatter in awhile so it seems to be getting better. I'm sure I'll grow to love it


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MijnWraak*


Yeah it's a hard transition since there's very little feedback before the bump, but I'm sure I'll get used to it eventually haha. But I told the guy I'll give it some time to get broken in, I haven't had it chatter in awhile so it seems to be getting better. I'm sure I'll grow to love it










You probably will







. But don't force it! In maybe two weeks or so grab your G15 back out of the closet and compare them again. If you don't feel that you've grown to like the Cherry Blues a lot more than the G15 then they just aren't for you.


----------



## honk_honk

Then put up your cherry blue for sale









After I use my white alps all keyboard are sorta squishy.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *honk_honk*


Then put up your cherry blue for sale









After I use my white alps all keyboard are sorta squishy.


Most keyboards ARE squishy. Rubber domes aren't exactly great for tactile feedback.

What keyboard do you have with white ALPS?


----------



## pun3D

Hey guys I just ordered this.

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/product...products_id=96

Cant wait for it to come. I got the tactile version. Not really sure which would have been better for gaming I should have asked you guys first. But I'm sure it will be good either way.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pun3D*


Hey guys I just ordered this.

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/product...products_id=96

Cant wait for it to come. I got the tactile version. Not really sure which would have been better for gaming I should have asked you guys first. But I'm sure it will be good either way.


They're both fine for gaming







. Well, the non-tactile one is a tiny bit better, but it absolutely sucks for typing. So at least IMO the tactile one is a better buy since it's your only mechanical. But it's all a personal thing, so you can't know for sure until you get it


----------



## pun3D

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


They're both fine for gaming







. Well, the non-tactile one is a tiny bit better, but it absolutely sucks for typing. So at least IMO the tactile one is a better buy since it's your only mechanical. But it's all a personal thing, so you can't know for sure until you get it










Cool can't wait to get it. Love the way the board looks. So tempted not to buy it since I have a G15 but I couldn't resist.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pun3D*


Cool can't wait to get it. Love the way the board looks. So tempted not to buy it since I have a G15 but I couldn't resist.


Cool







. Just remember to give it a week or two before passing any final judgments, it usually takes your fingers a bit to adjust to not having to bottom out like on rubber domes.


----------



## pun3D

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Cool







. Just remember to give it a week or two before passing any final judgments, it usually takes your fingers a bit to adjust to not having to bottom out like on rubber domes.


Nice.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pun3D*


Hey guys I just ordered this.

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/product...products_id=96

Cant wait for it to come. I got the tactile version. Not really sure which would have been better for gaming I should have asked you guys first. But I'm sure it will be good either way.


I have that same keyboard (Frost version though, not Ice), and I absolutely love it. The backlighting between my old G11 and the Deck can't even be compared - at its lowest setting the Deck completely outshines the G11 at maximum, and thanks to the different font used it looks a hell of a lot better as well.

As for the feel of the keys, they're definitely a bit heavier - you might find your fingers getting tired the first week or so you use the board, but after you get used to it the feel is absolutely incredible. It's much more precise, and I've noticed myself making less silly mistakes while typing.

Overall, I'd say you got an excellent board, and you'll love it.


----------



## pun3D

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn* 
I have that same keyboard (Frost version though, not Ice), and I absolutely love it. The backlighting between my old G11 and the Deck can't even be compared - at its lowest setting the Deck completely outshines the G11 at maximum, and thanks to the different font used it looks a hell of a lot better as well.

As for the feel of the keys, they're definitely a bit heavier - you might find your fingers getting tired the first week or so you use the board, but after you get used to it the feel is absolutely incredible. It's much more precise, and I've noticed myself making less silly mistakes while typing.

Overall, I'd say you got an excellent board, and you'll love it.

Nice thanks man. It definitely looks like a beautiful board.


----------



## honk_honk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
Most keyboards ARE squishy. Rubber domes aren't exactly great for tactile feedback.

What keyboard do you have with white ALPS?


A solidtek kb-6600abu.

Yeah I realize most keyboards are squishy but I didn't really realize it until I got a mechanical keyboard.

I was thinking of getting the Filco Zero but this was cheaper and white alps seemed to be a good choice for me, based on descriptions I heard.


----------



## Extreme_kid

Is mechanical keyboard the same as the old ones we used to get with a computer 486 ?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Extreme_kid*


Is mechanical keyboard the same as the old ones we used to get with a computer 486 ?










Some of them were, but it depended on which brand of computer, and such.


----------



## Dark-Asylum

just curious shouldn't the original definition of ghosting in the first post be where when you hit 2 keys and hold them down at the same time, and then hit a third one, it DOESN'T register? not actually sure about this now since I read this thread as I've read ghosting as being the problem where you can't hit more than X amount of keys at the same time.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dark-Asylum*


just curious shouldn't the original definition of ghosting in the first post be where when you hit 2 keys and hold them down at the same time, and then hit a third one, it DOESN'T register? not actually sure about this now since I read this thread as I've read ghosting as being the problem where you can't hit more than X amount of keys at the same time.


Ghosting is registering a key that isn't being pressed, due to "misreading" of the signals in the keyboard matrix.

If the keyboard simply blocks keystrokes after so many keys, you might not have the issue of ghosting.

I've never seen an issue with ghosting on a keyboard, to be honest.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


Ghosting is registering a key that isn't being pressed, due to "misreading" of the signals in the keyboard matrix.

If the keyboard simply blocks keystrokes after so many keys, you might not have the issue of ghosting.

I've never seen an issue with ghosting on a keyboard, to be honest.


Ghosting: http://www.dribin.org/dave/keyboard/html/ghosting.html

I doubt any new keyboards would have ghosting. However, when most people say ghosting these days they mean the keyboard stops registering keys after they press several. Similar but slightly different issue.


----------



## Manyak

The reason that certain keyboards stop registering keypresses after a certain number of keys is _because_ of ghosting. Take Crazy9000's example - A,B,D are closed, and C becomes ghosted. But if the keyboard controller implemented blocking, when it sees A,D being pressed, it will block any more keys so that neither B or C end up as ghost keys when you press another one.


----------



## Dark-Asylum

okay thanks


----------



## pun3D

Well my keyboard has come today. Gotta get use to it but so far I like it.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pun3D* 
Well my keyboard has come today. Gotta get use to it but so far I like it.

Cool









Don't forget that Deck's warranty fully covers any modding you do to it other than on the PCB, so if you wanna do something like add a USB hub to it or whatever go for it


----------



## pun3D

Well I'm still getting used to the keyboard. It's taking a while. At first I kinda regretted the purchase but now I'm starting to love the board. It was more the loss of the screen of the G15 at first. Now its getting good I still mess up a lot when I type but its cool.

I do wish the longer keys like caps and shift had more lighting on them.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pun3D* 
Well I'm still getting used to the keyboard. It's taking a while. At first I kinda regretted the purchase but now I'm starting to love the board. It was more the loss of the screen of the G15 at first. Now its getting good I still mess up a lot when I type but its cool.

I do wish the longer keys like caps and shift had more lighting on them.

You can always add your own LEDs if you like, or even replace the ones already installed with brighter ones.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pun3D* 
Well I'm still getting used to the keyboard. It's taking a while. At first I kinda regretted the purchase but now I'm starting to love the board. It was more the loss of the screen of the G15 at first. Now its getting good I still mess up a lot when I type but its cool.

I do wish the longer keys like caps and shift had more lighting on them.

The way the Deck is designed each key already has more light than any one key would on a normal backlit keyboard, but it is logistically difficult to disperse light from a focused light source like an LED.


----------



## pun3D

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
The way the Deck is designed each key already has more light than any one key would on a normal backlit keyboard, but it is logistically difficult to disperse light from a focused light source like an LED.

Yea I know its crazy bright. Just wish they would have maybe added a 2nd light in there and I can't mod so its all good.


----------



## VCheeZ

This Dell board I have been using is now officially my favorite. The 0227KN is apparently the same as the AT101W including the Black Alps Switches.

















Oh, and here is another new addition...glass keys
















Working on cleaning her up a bit....will update when I do


----------



## honk_honk

How do the black alps compare to the cherry blues?

Are you gonna sell the dells like you did before?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *honk_honk*


How do the black alps compare to the cherry blues?

Are you gonna sell the dells like you did before?


Black alps are _almost_ linear - they have a tactile bump but it can barely be felt. They are slightly lighter than Cherry Blues, but heavier than Cherry Browns.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Black alps are _almost_ linear - they have a tactile bump but it can barely be felt. They are slightly lighter than Cherry Blues, but heavier than Cherry Browns.


Sort of, but they usually feel much heavier than buckling springs, at least from my experience. (Ironically enough, I like the feel of the AEKII much better, but the only difference is the damped plungers on the switches).


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


Sort of, but they usually feel much heavier than buckling springs, at least from my experience. (Ironically enough, I like the feel of the AEKII much better, but the only difference is the damped plungers on the switches).


Well you've certainly expanded your horizons! How much has geekhack gotten you to spend on keyboards so far?









Though I dunno, are you comparing them to the Model F BS or Model M? And are you sure you're talking about original black alps here? Because this AT101 I've got is _definitely_ really light to the touch.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Well you've certainly expanded your horizons! How much has geekhack gotten you to spend on keyboards so far?









Though I dunno, are you comparing them to the Model F BS or Model M? And are you sure you're talking about original black alps here? Because this AT101 I've got is _definitely_ really light to the touch.


Way too much on keyboards, that's my answer. 
I'm talking original black ALPS, from a New in box Dell AT101W. As for which BS, I was referring to the Model M.

Perhaps I'm just so used to the spring-back effect of the BS mechanism that I find ALPS switches really tiring compared to other switches. In some ways, I've noticed that each type of switch has its own way you need to type on it in order for you to be able to enjoy it best.

I really like the damped ALPS in the AEKII, and I'm reasonably impressed with a white ALPS Suntouch I just got, but something about those black ALPS in that AT101W... I'm not sure what the difference is.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


Way too much on keyboards, that's my answer. 
I'm talking original black ALPS, from a New in box Dell AT101W. As for which BS, I was referring to the Model M.

Perhaps I'm just so used to the spring-back effect of the BS mechanism that I find ALPS switches really tiring compared to other switches. In some ways, I've noticed that each type of switch has its own way you need to type on it in order for you to be able to enjoy it best.

I really like the damped ALPS in the AEKII, and I'm reasonably impressed with a white ALPS Suntouch I just got, but something about those black ALPS in that AT101W... I'm not sure what the difference is.


Hell, I just pulled my dell back out of the closet to double check...and it's definitely lighter than Cherry Blues and Model Ms.

But yeah I get fatigued on the Black Alps as well, I think it's because I couldn't stop bottoming out no matter how much I tried. But if you actually sit it next to a Model M you can tell it's significantly lighter.


----------



## lb_felipe

Please, see and comment: http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...=376&Itemid=65


----------



## Gurr

@lb_felipe: It was a good review, but I feel you left out 2 mechanical keyboards that the average consumer can afford.

First the Scorpius m10
Second the ABS M1

They're not great but they are cheap and mechanical


----------



## Manyak

Very good article, I'm gonna link to it in the op of this thread









I did find a few things that could be changed though:

1: Customizers and Model Ms _do_ feel identical, except for the fact that the Customizer takes less force to press due to the different metal used in the spring.

2: Deck "Frost" is actually white, not light blue. Their camera just sucks, lol.

3: Just a tip, but my college has those Dell keyboards in the labs. The rarely used ones in the high performance labs feel pretty nice and I don't mind typing on them at all, but the ones in the general purpose lab that everyone goes to feel like total garbage. They take even more force to press than my Model M. This is a prime example of what can happen to even the best rubber domes that takes _decades_ to happen on real mechanical switches.

4: The Deck Legend does come in a tactile version now, but they aren't clicky. Also, like I've always said, Linear switches tend to be a bit better for gaming than tactile ones for most people because the tactile switches often don't actuate and release at the same position. Great for typing, horrible for gaming.


----------



## KipH

The article also seems to demand USB on all keyboards but also wants full N key rollover. I was given to believe (mostly from reading this thread daily) that PS2 was better for N-key?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


The article also seems to demand USB on all keyboards but also wants full N key rollover. I was given to believe (mostly from reading this thread daily) that PS2 was better for N-key?


Not that I see any real point in full N-key rollover...

But USB allows for 6 keys, and some modifiers
PS/2 allows for an unlimited number of keys.


----------



## PropNut

ZCheez, Nice model "A" (the old Royal typewriter) keyboard







I have one exactly like that, picked up for 8.00 at a flea market a few months ago. Works excellent.

Ok, I need a good black mechanical keyboard for my simpit. Thinking about picking up another Dell (like my steampunked version) but am leaning toward the cherry blues. Then of course I would need to "Aviator" it.









Simpit build thread: http://www.overclock.net/case-mod-wo...kpit-case.html


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
Not that I see any real point in full N-key rollover...

But USB allows for 6 keys, and some modifiers
PS/2 allows for an unlimited number of keys.

The main point to it for gaming IMO, so you _know_ that no matter what game you play and no matter what combination of keys you use it will always work.


----------



## PropNut

Hey Manyak, I am sure you have answered this before in the thread (somewhere back there) but could you elaborate on Cherry ML-Black switches again? I am looking at a Mini


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


Hey Manyak, I am sure you have answered this before in the thread (somewhere back there) but could you elaborate on Cherry ML-Black switches again? I am looking at a Mini


Stiff and Linear. Actuation point at 2mm, release point at ~1.9mm.

Did you pick up one of the MY switch boards from VCheez a while back? It's like those except less springy - the force only increases slightly from the beginning to end of the travel, while with the MY switches it increased a lot.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Stiff and Linear. Actuation point at 2mm, release point at ~1.9mm.

Did you pick up one of the MY switch boards from VCheez a while back? It's like those except less springy - the force only increases slightly from the beginning to end of the travel, while with the MY switches it increased a lot.


ML switches are low-profile tactile. There's no variations.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


ML switches are low-profile tactile. There's no variations.


Err....crap, I read MX Black.

^^ What he said.

Have you tried cherry browns yet? They're like those except with the first half of travel cut off, so the key rests right at the bump. They are also a bit picky as to where your finger actually presses the key, if it's off to the side a bit then the key gets stuck and won't go down.


----------



## lb_felipe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gurr* 
@lb_felipe: It was a good review, but I feel you left out 2 mechanical keyboards that the average consumer can afford.

First the Scorpius m10
Second the ABS M1

They're not great but they are cheap and mechanical


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Very good article, I'm gonna link to it in the op of this thread









I did find a few things that could be changed though:

1: Customizers and Model Ms _do_ feel identical, except for the fact that the Customizer takes less force to press due to the different metal used in the spring.

2: Deck "Frost" is actually white, not light blue. Their camera just sucks, lol.

3: Just a tip, but my college has those Dell keyboards in the labs. The rarely used ones in the high performance labs feel pretty nice and I don't mind typing on them at all, but the ones in the general purpose lab that everyone goes to feel like total garbage. They take even more force to press than my Model M. This is a prime example of what can happen to even the best rubber domes that takes _decades_ to happen on real mechanical switches.

4: The Deck Legend does come in a tactile version now, but they aren't clicky. Also, like I've always said, Linear switches tend to be a bit better for gaming than tactile ones for most people because the tactile switches often don't actuate and release at the same position. Great for typing, horrible for gaming.

Thanks for the comments.

So we can say that *CVT Avant Stellar* is the best of the best keyboard?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*


Thanks for the comments.

So we can say that *CVT Avant Stellar* is the best of the best keyboard?


I don't think there is such a thing as the best of the best keyboard. Every person has his/her own taste as to what keyswitches they like typing on the best. And to use myself for example, I like different boards for different things - Filco w/ Cherry Blues for typing, Cherry MY switches for gaming, and a DiNovo Edge for the living room - and each board is good for it's purpose and switching them around would make everything unenjoyable.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lb_felipe* 
Thanks for the comments.

So we can say that *CVT Avant Stellar* is the best of the best keyboard?

I personally think the IBM Model F AT is the best all-around keyboard, but as Manyak said, there are different strengths to each keyboard, based on what kind of switches it has. Personally, I'm not very fond of ALPS switches, so I doubt that I'd like the Avant Stellar.


----------



## lb_felipe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I don't think there is such a thing as the best of the best keyboard. Every person has his/her own taste as to what keyswitches they like typing on the best. And to use myself for example, I like different boards for different things - Filco w/ Cherry Blues for typing, Cherry MY switches for gaming, and a DiNovo Edge for the living room - and each board is good for it's purpose and switching them around would make everything unenjoyable.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


I personally think the IBM Model F AT is the best all-around keyboard, but as Manyak said, there are different strengths to each keyboard, based on what kind of switches it has. Personally, I'm not very fond of ALPS switches, so I doubt that I'd like the Avant Stellar.


But, is the CVT Avant Stellar as good as ABS M1 (in exemple) for gaming according the methodology used in the first post of this thread?

Greetings.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*


But, is the CVT Avant Stellar as good as ABS M1 (in exemple) for gaming according the methodology used in the first post of this thread?

Greetings.


But _quality_ wise the ABS M1 is nowhere near most other boards.


----------



## davek

Das II FTW.

Unfortionatly it's not really suited to gaming, but it's the best I've ever used for typing.

I also have a model M, but it's on the other side of the country in a basement right now. (with the original pentium 100MHz IBM and mouse that it shipped with, still booting os/2)


----------



## lb_felipe

I do not understood. I am a completely jerk in terms of english language. My language is portuguÃªs (I am brazilian). I am sorry, sincerely.

So, can the Avant Stellar to be a very good gaming keyboard?

More a time, I am sorry for confusion.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*


I do not understood. I am a completely jerk in terms of english language. My language is portuguÃªs (I am brazilian). I am sorry, sincerely.

So, can the Avant Stellar to be a very good gaming keyboard?

More a time, I am sorry for confusion.


If you can deal with the tactile point, and the click, any keyboard works well for gaming. If you don't like the noise, you won't want an ABS M1 either. If the tactile point gets in your way, you want a Linear Deck keyboard, or a Steelseries 7G.

If you want it quiet but still have a tactile point, you might look for a Dell AT101W, A Compaq MX18000, or a Tactile Deck keyboard.

Basically, if noise or the tactile point of the keyboard get in your way for gaming, than its not a good gaming keyboard for you. If neither of those things bother you, the Avant Stellar would be a fine gaming keyboard.

Unless you play a lot of Real Time Strategy games, rollover probably won't even be worth considering in your keyboard choices.

The hard part is choosing.


----------



## MijnWraak

Hey, my Filco has been doing some "ghost keys" recently. The most recent and one I most remember was when I was typing "/me" in LFS. In the chat box it came up as "/m9e" obviously the 9 is nowhere near either one. Should I get a replacement?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MijnWraak* 
Hey, my Filco has been doing some "ghost keys" recently. The most recent and one I most remember was when I was typing "/me" in LFS. In the chat box it came up as "/m9e" obviously the 9 is nowhere near either one. Should I get a replacement?

This is the same board that was chattering before too, right?

Yeah just get a replacement, I really think you got a defect.


----------



## MijnWraak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


This is the same board that was chattering before too, right?

Yeah just get a replacement, I really think you got a defect.


yeah. agh, such a hassle. I might just sell the replacement on ocn for a bit less than retail. hmm.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MijnWraak*


yeah. agh, such a hassle. I might just sell the replacement on ocn for a bit less than retail. hmm.


Don't give up on the keyboard because you had a dud, seriously.


----------



## MijnWraak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


Don't give up on the keyboard because you had a dud, seriously.


even though it's a dud, it does function 99% correctly. and I don't think it is worth $140. I will probably just get a $40 membrane and spend the $100 elsewhere.


----------



## lb_felipe

Hi, me again.

According to the BmR, a desired trait in a keyboard is the fact that it has sculpted keys.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benchmark Reviews*

"Sculpted keys" means that the tops of the keys are arranged in a curve whose long axis is the width of the keyboard. OK, that's hard to visualize, so here's a side view of a keyboard with sculpted keys, the Unicomp Optimizer 104:










And here's a side view of a keyboard with "flat" keys, the Deck Legend:











The Filco Majestouch has sculpted keys?

Suggestion to Maniak, include a information for each reviewed model in the first post if it has sculpted keys or no.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*


Hi, me again.

According to the BmR, a desired trait in a keyboard is the fact that it has sculpted keys.

The Filco Majestouch has sculpted keys?

Suggestion to Maniak, include a information for each reviewed model in the first post if it has sculpted keys or no.


Some people like sculpted keys, some people don't.

Filcos do have sculpted keys.

But yeah I can include that too.


----------



## lb_felipe

I'm waiting anxiously for this update the first post.

Thank you very much.


----------



## Manyak

There you go, it's added


----------



## MijnWraak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lb_felipe* 

The Filco Majestouch has sculpted keys?

Yes, it does.


----------



## IEATFISH

Just reviewed the Filco Majestouch Touch Click NKRO.

http://www.overclock.net/hardware/sh...p?product=1097


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IEATFISH* 
Just reviewed the Filco Majestouch Touch Click NKRO.

http://www.overclock.net/hardware/sh...p?product=1097

Red ESC key ftw









Much nicer than the ABS huh?


----------



## IEATFISH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Red ESC key ftw









Much nicer than the ABS huh?









It really is. The switches are a different style (clicky and tactile) that the M1 so it isn't a direct comparison but I do prefer this one. Of course, if I didn't like my $130 purchase, I would be rather upset.


----------



## lb_felipe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MijnWraak* 
Yes, it does.

Thanks!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
There you go, it's added









Great! Improved what was already very good.

This thread is the best of the internet about keyboards for PCs!

Now just remains to review more models to enrich it.


----------



## timw4mail

Speaking of keyboards, anyone want a Dell AT101 or a keyboard with clicky ALPS?

I really am not fond of ALPS switches.


----------



## VCheeZ

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


Speaking of keyboards, anyone want a Dell AT101 or a keyboard with clicky ALPS?

I really am not fond of ALPS switches.


I could always use a 2nd one...


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


Speaking of keyboards, anyone want a Dell AT101 or a keyboard with clicky ALPS?

I really am not fond of ALPS switches.


If you've got something with white alps I'll take it.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


If you've got something with white alps I'll take it.


It's an SIIG Suntouch...so I think its some sort of simplified, but Genuine white ALPS, if you are still interested. It's an AT connector keyboard.


----------



## FieryCoD

The best keyboard ever known to man?

The IBM Model M.


----------



## honk_honk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
Speaking of keyboards, anyone want a Dell AT101 or a keyboard with clicky ALPS?

I really am not fond of ALPS switches.

What color are the keyboards, I enjoy ALP switches.
How much for the dell (with black alps right?)


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *honk_honk*


What color are the keyboards, I enjoy ALP switches.
How much for the dell (with black alps right?)


Its the white Dell, with the black alps, but I have a set of black keys on it.

Hows ~$15 and shipping sound? Its nearly brand new.


----------



## PropNut

Does that include shipping Tim?


----------



## honk_honk

His message said and shipping, so I think shipping is added on.


----------



## timw4mail

No, it does not, because shipping keyboards is expensive. But I've already got one interest. I'll keep you guys posted.


----------



## PropNut

Woops, I am not very observant today am I? I thanks Honk Honk.


----------



## timw4mail

Both keyboards are sold.


----------



## honk_honk

To me


----------



## MijnWraak

Received new Ficlo replacement. No defects that I can detect, besides the E being kind of awkward to hit before break-in. Definitely feels better though, travel distance for some odd reason seems (double space, uh oh, not again...)to be shorter...

But yeah, THIS is the keyboard I paid $140 for. Most of the keys are VERY similar in tactility, and is very smooth to type on. Definitely worth the $$$


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MijnWraak*


Received new Ficlo replacement. No defects that I can detect, besides the E being kind of awkward to hit before break-in. Definitely feels better though, travel distance for some odd reason seems (double space, uh oh, not again...)to be shorter...

But yeah, THIS is the keyboard I paid $140 for. Most of the keys are VERY similar in tactility, and is very smooth to type on. Definitely worth the $$$


Yeah the other one had to be just a manufacturing blunder, these keyboards are _designed_ to be consistent between keys as much as physically possible.

I'm glad you're at least happy with it now, I imagine you were probably feeling pretty ripped off before


----------



## MijnWraak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Yeah the other one had to be just a manufacturing blunder, these keyboards are _designed_ to be consistent between keys as much as physically possible.

I'm glad you're at least happy with it now, I imagine you were probably feeling pretty ripped off before









heh yeah, really frustrating to pay that much to have it perform worse than a $5 keyboard. key's are definitely different on this one, comapred top to the red esc key from old one, and these are much "thinner", lower profile. Definitely prefer these to the old ones.


----------



## timw4mail

So, Manyak, have you tried the MY switches? If so what are they like? I've got a keyboard coming with MYs that I bought for the double-shot keycaps, and I'm wondering if the keyboard itself is worth keeping.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


So, Manyak, have you tried the MY switches? If so what are they like? I've got a keyboard coming with MYs that I bought for the double-shot keycaps, and I'm wondering if the keyboard itself is worth keeping.


They feel kind of...springy, for lack of a better word. They are very light at the start, but near the bottom they get extremely stiff (120cN at the bottom). Surprisingly though, this actually makes them a lot easier to get used to than Cherry Blacks because if you just type with the force you'd use normally they travel far enough to actuate and then the spring stops you from bottoming out. It's pretty interesting to try.

However, that being said, I don't think they're as nice as MX Blacks for finger-twitching games or anything tactile for typing. But I do like them better than Blacks for strategy games and 3rd person adventure and stuff like that. Except 2 keyboards on my desk is already enough to deal with!


----------



## Kamek

Hey there, I'm new here but I'm looking for a new keyboard and I can't remember the last time I used a mechanical switch keyboard. I'm looking at either the Majestouch Brown or Blue switch keyboard, which do you think is better for both gaming and typing? Also, do you think that the number keys are necessary or should I go with the 87 key.


----------



## IEATFISH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamek*


Hey there, I'm new here but I'm looking for a new keyboard and I can't remember the last time I used a mechanical switch keyboard. I'm looking at either the Majestouch Brown or Blue switch keyboard, which do you think is better for both gaming and typing? Also, do you think that the number keys are necessary or should I go with the 87 key.


Welcome to the site!! (check out the site features guide in my sig)

Personally, I really like my Majestouch Touch Click NKRO (Blue). I like the clicks and for gaming, I have had no problems. For typing this keyboard has been a dream. Overall, I really like it. I also find myself using the keypad for calculator things as well as entering long strings of numbers. If you don't think you will use it, I'd go without it. You can always buy one of these down the road.

I did a review on my keyboard (link).


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamek*


Hey there, I'm new here but I'm looking for a new keyboard and I can't remember the last time I used a mechanical switch keyboard. I'm looking at either the Majestouch Brown or Blue switch keyboard, which do you think is better for both gaming and typing? Also, do you think that the number keys are necessary or should I go with the 87 key.


At the end of the day it's all just your preference. If you want to type really lightly, get the browns. Otherwise, the blues feel a bit nicer IMO.

And the keypad, well, if you do anything where the keypad would make you faster, then get it. Things like working with money or IP addresses a lot. I mean, how often do you actually go to it? If you use it more than once or twice a day then there's no need for it, and leaving it out can be more comfortable because now you'll be able to keep the mouse closer.


----------



## Kamek

Cool, I think I'll go with the Blue then. Yeah, I'm used to using the keypad, but since I don't use numbers very much I don't think it'll be bad getting used to the standard number keys. Thanks for the advice, I'm sure I'll see you guys around the site.


----------



## MijnWraak

Looks like elitekeyboards are getting some more Cherry Blue tenkeyless's in! Says "Preorder available soon"!
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...=fkbn87mcnpek#


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
They feel kind of...springy, for lack of a better word. They are very light at the start, but near the bottom they get extremely stiff (120cN at the bottom). Surprisingly though, this actually makes them a lot easier to get used to than Cherry Blacks because if you just type with the force you'd use normally they travel far enough to actuate and then the spring stops you from bottoming out. It's pretty interesting to try.

However, that being said, I don't think they're as nice as MX Blacks for finger-twitching games or anything tactile for typing. But I do like them better than Blacks for strategy games and 3rd person adventure and stuff like that. Except 2 keyboards on my desk is already enough to deal with!

Hmm... that sounds really interesting. I can't wait for it to come now.

I just got one of those "business grade numeric keypads" they were highlighting on geekhack...they are pretty nice for the price. And the linear switches aren't quite as bad as I though they would be. I actually ended up putting a linear switch for the spacebars of both of my Cherry brown keyboards, and I actually find it better than having a tactile point on the spacebar.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
Hmm... that sounds really interesting. I can't wait for it to come now.

I just got one of those "business grade numeric keypads" they were highlighting on geekhack...they are pretty nice for the price. And the linear switches aren't quite as bad as I though they would be. I actually ended up putting a linear switch for the spacebars of both of my Cherry brown keyboards, and I actually find it better than having a tactile point on the spacebar.

Hey, that's not a bad idea! I tend to pound the spacebar no matter how light or heavy the switch is so the tactile bump does nothing for me either, and an MX Black switch would probably make it feel better.


----------



## connector

Hi!
I have one question; how does the Cherry G80-3000 with blue switches feel for typing?
I'm afraid it's the only one I can get in this parts of Europe (Italy).

Ione has problems with their mail system; the mails get returned with errors,... the only thing left is Das Keyboard (ordering from Germany), however the costs of sending are some 20-30 euro.

Any ideas?
(or reviews)


----------



## grantb5

Have you guys seen this web site? Kind of hard to read (it's Japanese), but they crack open tons of keyboards and take great photos of them?

http://www.vshopu.com/g_cpad683/index.html

This page might be more interesting generally:
http://www.vshopu.com/kore/index.html


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *connector* 
Hi!
I have one question; how does the Cherry G80-3000 with blue switches feel for typing?
I'm afraid it's the only one I can get in this parts of Europe (Italy).

Ione has problems with their mail system; the mails get returned with errors,... the only thing left is Das Keyboard (ordering from Germany), however the costs of sending are some 20-30 euro.

Any ideas?
(or reviews)

From having a few Cherry keyboards, the best way to experience Cherry switches is probably with Cherry keyboards. If you can find it, that's probably not a bad choice.


----------



## connector

Well, it does not have a ton of enthusiastic reviews; even Ione got few, Cherry none.

I gave a look in the Cherry catalogue-they have three possibilities : Linear, Soft and Click pressure. ?????


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *grantb5*


Have you guys seen this web site? Kind of hard to read (it's Japanese), but they crack open tons of keyboards and take great photos of them?

http://www.vshopu.com/g_cpad683/index.html

This page might be more interesting generally:
http://www.vshopu.com/kore/index.html


I haven't seen that specific one, but you can find a million other japanese sites on keyboards and switches. They're all over the place









Quote:



Originally Posted by *connector*


Well, it does not have a ton of enthusiastic reviews; even Ione got few, Cherry none.

I gave a look in the Cherry catalogue-they have three possibilities : Linear, Soft and Click pressure. ?????


Don't worry about it, Cherry keyboards > Ione in quality, by far. Linear = MX Black, soft = most likely MX Brown, Click = MX Blue. I think your best bet would be the Blues, unless you can find out for sure if the Soft ones really are Browns or not (at which point just pick between the two).


----------



## connector

Thanks Manyak!! I'm really grateful to you.






















I was already exhausted of trying to find a mechanical keyboard. I looked a couple of months ago at the Cherry site, but their menu is really a mess if you try to find something based on technical specifications; considering that nobody was mentioning Cherry keyboards I presumed that they don't make them (even if it was really strange that they would sell only switches).

The Cherry keyboard is readily available for the modest sum of 50 euro.
Much better than buying some glitchy Das Keyboard or similar.

Thanks! 
Uff, I feel better now!
















How certain are you in the Blue version (click)! I'd really like this specific one, you know







.


----------



## Manyak

Nah the reason we don't mention them much here is because they aren't readily available in the US. It's a ton easier to buy a Filco of approximately equal quality than it is to search through ebay day after day and decode model numbers, waiting for the one you want to pop up.


----------



## connector

I searched the web for a review; there are European reviews on the other keyboards, even comparative (between the ones listed in the first post here), but Cherry is just absent. 
I made the mistake of not writing to the Cherry customer support way back.

(I have the same PC chassis as you







)


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Nah the reason we don't mention them much here is because they aren't readily available in the US. It's a ton easier to buy a Filco of approximately equal quality than it is to search through ebay day after day and decode model numbers, waiting for the one you want to pop up.


Yeah, Cherry keyboard model numbers are a nightmare to try to figure out.


----------



## connector

I have a strange feeling they are not overly interesting in making sales; 8 years ago the Cherry keyboards were absolutely prevalent in Europe; you could order any model you liked.
Their website is worth nothing; and they do not strive for reviews or design.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *connector*


I have a strange feeling they are not overly interesting in making sales; 8 years ago the Cherry keyboards were absolutely prevalent in Europe; you could order any model you liked.
Their website is worth nothing; and they do not strive for reviews or design.


It might be that they are more interested in selling their switches. The strange thing is that Cherry's designs for their keyboards seem to be generally nicer to type on than designs that just use the switches. Generally, Cherry has very nice keys on their keyboards, compared to derivative designs.

It would be really nice to find a Cherry keyboard representative, and see if some good data could be compiled as to model numbers, ordering, availability and price of Cherry keyboards.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


It might be that they are more interested in selling their switches. The strange thing is that Cherry's designs for their keyboards seem to be generally nicer to type on than designs that just use the switches. Generally, Cherry has very nice keys on their keyboards, compared to derivative designs.

It would be really nice to find a Cherry keyboard representative, and see if some good data could be compiled as to model numbers, ordering, availability and price of Cherry keyboards.


Some of their keys are terrible though, like the ones that use laser printing (ugly as _hell_). But the good part is that they do have models that use dye sublimation or two-shot molding, which are excellent (for all normal intents and purposes, the lettering on those don't get worn off). Even Filcos only use silk screening, which will fade with time. Of course two-shot is still nicer looking than dye sublimation, but at least the dye doesn't wear off.

It's just one of the things you can decode out of the model numbers.....ugh.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Some of their keys are terrible though, like the ones that use laser printing (ugly as _hell_). But the good part is that they do have models that use dye sublimation or two-shot molding, which are excellent (for all normal intents and purposes, the lettering on those don't get worn off). Even Filcos only use silk screening, which will fade with time. Of course two-shot is still nicer looking than dye sublimation, but at least the dye doesn't wear off.

It's just one of the things you can decode out of the model numbers.....ugh.


Their laser printing for white keys I think is some of the best, but I do agree on the black key laser printing, that's why I got a keyboard with a set of dual-shot molded keys. That's what the "H" means, right?

I'm still waiting on my MY keyboard, I hope I get it tomorrow.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


Their laser printing for white keys I think is some of the best, but I do agree on the black key laser printing, that's why I got a keyboard with a set of dual-shot molded keys. That's what the "H" means, right?

I'm still waiting on my MY keyboard, I hope I get it tomorrow.


I'll be damned if I know what the H means, lol. I could never figure out a thing about those numbers. What some letters stand for depends on if it's a 3- or 4-letter combination after the number, what year it was made, what phase the moon is in, and the alignment of the planets.

Yeah compared to other laser printing it's good, but compared to the looks of two-shot molded or silk screening it's garbage.


----------



## connector

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


It would be really nice to find a Cherry keyboard representative, and see if some good data could be compiled as to model numbers, ordering, availability and price of Cherry keyboards.


they have listed all keyboards on their website (in English)
http://www.cherry.de/english/products/keyboards.htm

each product has a small Adobe icon; clicking it opens a two page Adobe document about a specific model, with all possible technical data
http://www.cherry.de/english/product...a_Keyboard.htm

PDF
http://www.cherry.de/PDF/EN_EASYHUB_...a_Keyboard.pdf

You can imagine the tedious work of going in this manner through some 100 models with the mechanical keyboard around the 60th place.
At least a couple of hours work.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *connector* 
they have listed all keyboards on their website (in English)
http://www.cherry.de/english/products/keyboards.htm

each product has a small Adobe icon; clicking it opens a two page Adobe document about a specific model, with all possible technical data
http://www.cherry.de/english/product...a_Keyboard.htm

PDF
http://www.cherry.de/PDF/EN_EASYHUB_...a_Keyboard.pdf

You can imagine the tedious work of going in this manner through some 100 models with the mechanical keyboard around the 60th place.
At least a couple of hours work.

Those PDFs really don't tell you much either. You can tell more from the picture of the keyboard. Those never detail the kind of switch in the keyboard, one of the biggest considerations when your looking for a Cherry keyboard.

From what I do know about model numbers
G80 = Cherry MX (The whole rainbow)
G81 = Cherry MY
G83 = Rubber dome
G84 = Cherry ML

And I don't know what kind of switches this has, if it even does, but this is pretty neat:
http://www.cherry.de/english/product..._G86-63410.htm


----------



## connector

For the mechanical keyboards they state that they have MX switches. For others they keep silent.
The only option would be to ask their customer support service via email.
The other option is to ask their shop:
http://www.keybo.de/content/keybo.storefront

it has a much better overview.(however not all keyboards are shown):
And they have some very nice custom ones http://www.keybo.de/content/keybo.st...duct/View/1459


----------



## rfjunkie

I just purchased one of these... The price is good and it seems to work alright so far.... It's taking a little bit of getting used to, Since I'm used to a laptop style keyboard for most of my typing. But I did put it on the computer that I use the most and I'm getting used to using it. I do like the "clicky" type feed back that it give when typing.... I like it so much that I ordered another one to put on my #2 computer that I use.... I may even get one of the Filco keyboard to use at work.

http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...pid=fkbn87zeby


----------



## timw4mail

It makes me a little sad that the Cherry keyboard with my least favorite switches has the best build quality and keys...

Here's that keyboard:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWNX:IT

I have a review on Geekhack:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:7463


----------



## USFORCES

I have a couple mechanical keyboards in the attic and would rather use a G15 or a G19 but I guess if I ever decide to write a book I'll get one out...


----------



## thecool85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rfjunkie* 
I just purchased one of these... The price is good and it seems to work alright so far.... It's taking a little bit of getting used to, Since I'm used to a laptop style keyboard for most of my typing. But I did put it on the computer that I use the most and I'm getting used to using it. I do like the "clicky" type feed back that it give when typing.... I like it so much that I ordered another one to put on my #2 computer that I use.... I may even get one of the Filco keyboard to use at work.

http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...pid=fkbn87zeby

I was thinking about snagging one of these as well. When I was looking at them today I noticed that the not B-stock Zero Filcos use ***ka white switches and the B-stock ones use xm white switches. Anyone know if there's a difference and, if so, what it is?


----------



## rfjunkie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thecool85*


I was thinking about snagging one of these as well. When I was looking at them today I noticed that the not B-stock Zero Filcos use ***ka white switches and the B-stock ones use xm white switches. Anyone know if there's a difference and, if so, what it is?


The XM white switches are just a little bit heavier (thats what the sales guy at elitekeyboards said.)... Thats about the only difference. (If you have any questions on the keyboards the elitekeyboards.com sells, just shoot them an e-mail. They were very helpful earlier this week.)

I have a B-stock.... The sales rep at elitekeyboards.com said the non b-stock ones are a little bit lighter key.


----------



## honk_honk

Is there a different between using Rit dye to dye keys versus using Vinyl Dye?

I'm trying to color my whole keyboard, keys and frame.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *honk_honk*


Is there a different between using Rit dye to dye keys versus using Vinyl Dye?

I'm trying to color my whole keyboard, keys and frame.


You dying the Dell?

I think Vinyl Dye is easier to apply for cases, but I haven't heard about it being used for dying keys.


----------



## tombom

Can someone recommend me a quiet mechanical keyboard under $60?

Looking mainly for a good gaming keyboard as my Saitek Eclipse is too flimsy for me.

I saw the ABS M1 and this one:
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...pid=fkbn87zeby

posted earlier.


----------



## IEATFISH

The ABS M1 is a very solid (read heavy and sturdy) keyboard. I personally had problems with it but many people really like it.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tombom* 
Can someone recommend me a quiet mechanical keyboard under $60?

Looking mainly for a good gaming keyboard as my Saitek Eclipse is too flimsy for me.

I saw the ABS M1 and this one:
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...pid=fkbn87zeby

posted earlier.


That, an iRocks kr-6230, or a Filco Majestouch with Cherry Browns (the one with blue LEDs). They are all listed under the OP.


----------



## Yoshimanitsu

Great, so in order to get most of those, I need $100+.

Failblog.


----------



## honk_honk

If I have to spend a little more for a keyboard that helps me type better, I think that is money well spent.


----------



## honk_honk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


You dying the Dell?

I think Vinyl Dye is easier to apply for cases, but I haven't heard about it being used for dying keys.


Yeup and maybe the SIIG. So I guess I'll go Vinyl Dye for the case and Rit dye for the keys.

edit: sorry for the double post


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *honk_honk*


Yeup and maybe the SIIG. So I guess I'll go Vinyl Dye for the case and Rit dye for the keys.

edit: sorry for the double post


So, are you enjoying those keyboards?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Yoshimanitsu*


Great, so in order to get most of those, I need $100+.

Failblog.


Nope, $20 can get you an older one on ebay, and $50 can get you a brand new Scorpius M10, ABS M1, or Filco Zero (from their B-Stock).


----------



## Afrodisiac

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Nope, $20 can get you an older one on ebay, and $50 can get you a brand new Scorpius M10, ABS M1, or Filco Zero (from their B-Stock).

Good to hear. $50 is what I'm expecting to make by raffling off my "uber gaming" G15 v2 to an unsuspecting loser (hey, I was conned into buying one before so I'm a loser too). Which is the better choice out of those 3? I'd say more gaming than typing, but it would be nice to be decent at general usage and crap at everything except gaming.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thecool85* 
I was thinking about snagging one of these as well. When I was looking at them today I noticed that the not B-stock Zero Filcos use ***ka white switches and the B-stock ones use xm white switches. Anyone know if there's a difference and, if so, what it is?

There's a lot of people who dislike the XM switches (read some of the reviews on Geekhack.org) but reckon the ***ka switches are much better. I'd spend the extra to get the better switch if I were you.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Afrodisiac* 
Good to hear. $50 is what I'm expecting to make by raffling off my "uber gaming" G15 v2 to an unsuspecting loser (hey, I was conned into buying one before so I'm a loser too). Which is the better choice out of those 3? I'd say more gaming than typing, but it would be nice to be decent at general usage and crap at everything except gaming.

Personally I'd recommend the Scorpius, as I'm not a fan of ALPS-type switches.

Or you could grab on of these, which have Cherry brown switches, which are a bit better for gaming because they don't have a "click":
http://cgi.ebay.com/Cherry-Credit-Ca...item53dd842ded

I got one for an offer of $35.

It is used, but it's also programmable, so you can set up macros with the additional buttons.

(Mine also had a fully-functional USB 1.1 hub hiding in the casing. )


----------



## xquisit

Thanks to you I'm getting the ABS M1 9/10 for gaming. $44 bucks?! What a steal!

I haven't read many posts, but can someone recommend anything better for gaming around this price?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xquisit* 
Thanks to you I'm getting the ABS M1 9/10 for gaming. $44 bucks?! What a steal!

I haven't read many posts, but can someone recommend anything better for gaming around this price?

The one I listed has quite a few programmable keys.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xquisit* 
Thanks to you I'm getting the ABS M1 9/10 for gaming. $44 bucks?! What a steal!

I haven't read many posts, but can someone recommend anything better for gaming around this price?

Actually, I recommend the board that timw just linked as long as you don't mind the layout, or a Filco Zero B-stock. You won't really be _disappointed_ with the ABS I don't think, but some people have been having quality problems with it recently so I'm not quite sure about it anymore.


----------



## rfjunkie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tombom*


Can someone recommend me a quiet mechanical keyboard under $60?

Looking mainly for a good gaming keyboard as my Saitek Eclipse is too flimsy for me.

I saw the ABS M1 and this one:
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...pid=fkbn87zeby

posted earlier.


That keyboard from elitekeyboards.com is really loud.... That is the one that I currently am using right now. I like it so far. But yes it is very "clicky".


----------



## honk_honk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


So, are you enjoying those keyboards?


I am enjoying the keyboards, the SIIG is actually quite different compared to my Solidtek. The SIIG sounds more like a cherry key, more clicky sounding compared to the clack of the Solidtek.

The black alps are different, I actually haven't tried it out that much yet.


----------



## Monkey92

I just got a Filco Majestouch with the blues, all upon your rating and recommendation. I'm loving it so far







.


----------



## thecool85

Well, after much deliberation, I've got one of these bad boys coming my way. I'll post my impressions when it gets here and I've had some time to formulate an opinion.


----------



## timw4mail

Are any of you new Filco owners going to get a set of blank keys?


----------



## IEATFISH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
Are any of you new Filco owners going to get a set of blank keys?

I've considered it. I'd like to just replace the letters and numpad numbers with them. I like my symbols. Maybe the F keys too...

I wrote them about different colors of WASD since the purple doesn't do much for me. They said:

Quote:

I'm glad to hear you're enjoying your new FILCO. We're always looking
to bring new accessories to our customers and keycaps are an area we're
working on. Lettered black keycaps are probably next, but we are
considering white keycaps in the future as well.

Keycaps for HHKB keyboards do not fit Majestouch keyboards.
White keys would be sweet since you could dye them to your heart's desire.


----------



## timw4mail

It's no fun if you don't out-Das the Das.

I got a set of blank Filco keys for my Scorpius M10, and I've never had more fun typing on it.


----------



## Manyak

I've been using blank keys since the beginning of the summer. I figured that since the regular Filco keys use silk screening the printing does eventually wear off, so by switching them out with the blank ones I can keep the board looking brand new all the time










It's really a lot easier to use than it sounds.


----------



## Monkey92

I really don't get the appeal of blank keys, other than the "keeping it looking new" argument. I never look at my fingers when I type anyway, so it doesn't make a difference.


----------



## IEATFISH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Monkey92*


I really don't get the appeal of blank keys, other than the "keeping it looking new" argument. I never look at my fingers when I type anyway, so it doesn't make a difference.


Deter people from using your computer.

I've heard of people using the Dvorak layout and having blank keys so unless you know Dvorak, it is rather impossible to type with any sort of efficiency.

And it looks cool.


----------



## MadCatMk2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Monkey92*


I really don't get the appeal of blank keys, other than the "keeping it looking new" argument. I never look at my fingers when I type anyway, so it doesn't make a difference.


Just think of people looking at your keyboard. Their faces when you ask them to type something.

And it looks cool.


----------



## timw4mail

An additional benefit, there are no letters to wear off. (Although if you have double-shot molded keys, or dye-sublimated keys, that's irrelevant).


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Monkey92*


I really don't get the appeal of blank keys, other than the "keeping it looking new" argument. I never look at my fingers when I type anyway, so it doesn't make a difference.


There are a few possible reasons really:

1: Keeping it looking new (but we already said that)
2: If you normally need to look at the keys while typing, it helps correct that
3: It lets you learn other layouts (DVORAK, COLEMAK) without letting you cheat by looking down at the keys
4: It stops a lot of people who don't know what they're doing from using your computer
5: Some people just like the look of it better


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


There are a few possible reasons really:

1: Keeping it looking new (but we already said that)
2: If you normally need to look at the keys while typing, it helps correct that
3: It lets you learn other layouts (DVORAK, COLEMAK) without letting you cheat by looking down at the keys
4: It stops a lot of people who don't know what they're doing from using your computer
5: Some people just like the look of it better


6. Most people have only heard of the Das Keyboard because it has the option for blank keys.


----------



## Afrodisiac

This is interesting:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823204017


----------



## rfjunkie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Afrodisiac*


This is interesting:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823204017


That's a decent looking keyboard... I don't like the little backspace button and the huge enter key... (my opinion.) Specs are decent for the switches that are used in it. I'm on a keyboard with MX switches right now. I like them.... I would go for a Filco keyboard over that one for the difference in price... I do have an I-rocks keyboard that has the laptop style keys... It too has the big enter key and small backspace... thats why its on my HTPC... it hardly ever gets used. I use the remote on that the most....

Here is the Filco that I would get over the I-Rocks

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...&pid=fkbn87meb


----------



## Manyak

I have that keyboard, it's pretty nice besides the ?/ key all the way to the right of the shift key instead of in it's normal spot. But at that price, the only time you should get it over a Filco is if you want something with a numberpad to carry around with a laptop or something (it's pretty light for a mechanical board, and the same size as a tenkeyless filco). If you want a full review check the one I wrote here.

I don't mind the backspace/enter keys as much as others though, since I grew up on keyboards with them.


----------



## rfjunkie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I have that keyboard, it's pretty nice besides the ?/ key all the way to the right of the shift key instead of in it's normal spot. But at that price, the only time you should get it over a Filco is if you want something with a numberpad to carry around with a laptop or something (it's pretty light for a mechanical board, and the same size as a tenkeyless filco). If you want a full review check the one I wrote here.

I don't mind the backspace/enter keys as much as others though, since I grew up on keyboards with them.


I'm on that site too... that pretty cool that there is a form on keyboards alone...

That is a pretty bad place for that /? key.... I use them a lot too.... I really would not get that I-rocks keyboard now.


----------



## lmnop

I have a couple questions.

sub-dye and laser etching which one is more beneficial, why, which one is more expensive? and which is preferred.

I understand why Stiffness and the Force needed is good for gaming but why is Tactile and Click bad for gaming? are the mechanisms inside the Cherry MX Black Linear that produce these sensations not present and allows for faster depressing?

is the ABS M1 considered a gaming keyboard because the Tactileness is more subtle than say a Cherry MX Blue?

what is "Key Delay" does it have to do with the Scan Matrix or is it Debounce Time

could G80-3000LPCEU-0 be added to the list under MX Black Linear, it is widely available and significantly cheaper than the Deck Legend 105/82 Linear, SteelSeries 7G, Raptor K-1 and Filco Majestouch Linear Force at $60-70. it is a US Layout however the Number 4 Dollar sign has been replaced by the Euro Sign not sure why.

thank you.


----------



## Afrodisiac

Is there a very simple mechanical keyboard with the best gaming switches who's keys can be dyed?

I wanna dye the ESC key red, the WASD blue and maybe the numberpad yellow or something, just for yucks. I also want the keyboard to be black, and you can't dye black keys, so is there a way to buy blank beige dyeable keys?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I have a couple questions.

sub-dye and laser etching which one is more beneficial, why, which one is more expensive? and which is preferred.

I understand why Stiffness and the Force needed is good for gaming but why is Tactile and Click bad for gaming? are the mechanisms inside the Cherry MX Black Linear that produce these sensations not present and allows for faster depressing?

is the ABS M1 considered a gaming keyboard because the Tactileness is more subtle than say a Cherry MX Blue?

what is "Key Delay" does it have to do with the Scan Matrix or is it Debounce Time

could G80-3000LPCEU-0 be added to the list under MX Black Linear, it is widely available and significantly cheaper than the Deck Legend 105/82 Linear, SteelSeries 7G, Raptor K-1 and Filco Majestouch Linear Force at $60-70. it is a US Layout however the Number 4 Dollar sign has been replaced by the Euro Sign not sure why.

thank you.


Dye sublimation is better than laser etching. The etching is only a surface stain while the dye sinks into the key so it doesn't wear off for _ages_. Laser etching also tends to be a bit blurrier than Dye sublimation, but that all depends on the manufacturer.

Tactile bumps and clicks aren't necessarily _bad_ for gaming, I just personally prefer Linear keys for it. You might end up with a different preference depending on what you try.

The ABS M1 is called a "gaming" keyboard because it has 6+4 key rollover, the max for USB. Keep in mind though, just because a keyboard isn't a gaming board that doesn't mean that it doesn't have 6+4, or even full n-key rollover. "Gaming" is just a word thrown in for marketing.

The Key Delay listed in the op is the shortest amount of time it takes the board to send two keystrokes one after the other. Depending on the design of the board, it may or may not include debouncing.

Can you provide a link to the G80? And that's a UK layout.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Afrodisiac*


Is there a very simple mechanical keyboard with the best gaming switches who's keys can be dyed?

I wanna dye the ESC key red, the WASD blue and maybe the numberpad yellow or something, just for yucks. I also want the keyboard to be black, and you can't dye black keys, so is there a way to buy blank beige dyeable keys?


You'll find any keycaps you want right here.









As for whole keyboards, I think the best thing for you to get would be a Topre Realforce. But if you're looking for something cheaper your best bet would be to scour ebay for a white Cherry G80 board.

A Model M is also an option, but I don't know how much you'll like it for games.


----------



## lmnop

Cherry Keyboard G80-3000LPCEU-0 (US with Euro symbol)

Source

here are some pictures.










































you can buy it here for $73.42. here for $77.97. here for $78.20

I don't even think the € symbol at Number 5 (not 4, my apologies) is a con I think you get both % and € probably 6 NKRO and unfortunately it only comes in Light Grey but thats hardly anything to complain about considering the price tag which makes it the most affordable Cherry MX Black Linear Keyboard and if your thinking "iOne Scorpius M10" don't because I don't think anybody at GeekHack has ever complained about the G80 series build quality.

it's definitely a US layout with € symbol. EU layout has a Alt-Gr key on the right side this does not.


----------



## Manyak

Ok yeah that's a US ANSI layout, they just stuck an extra symbol in.

But if I remember correctly it's not any fixed rollover, just whatever works.

It seems they also have one with Cherry MX Blues.

I'll add it to the OP soon


----------



## lmnop

yes but apparently it's in english AND chinese see here.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
yes here is the Chinese Layout of that one you just posted.

this is interesting.

I find that somewhat more comfortable than the normal dimples, personally.


----------



## lmnop

someone else mentioned it doesn't have full 6 key rollover what exacty is "less" than 6 key rollover?

I edited my last post because there is only 1 layout english and chinese at least thats what I got from a comment "if you can live with the chinese characters"


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
someone else mentioned it doesn't have full 6 key rollover what exacty is "less" than 6 key rollover?

2-5 key rollover, depending on the keyboard.


----------



## innocenceisdeath

What good mechanical keyboards come in the UK 105-key layout aside from the Unicomp ones?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *innocenceisdeath*


What good mechanical keyboards come in the UK 105-key layout aside from the Unicomp ones?


Virtually as many as there are in the US layout, I'm sure. The difficulty is finding a UK supplier.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *innocenceisdeath*


What good mechanical keyboards come in the UK 105-key layout aside from the Unicomp ones?


Unfortunately I can't help you much there, as I try to avoid that layout. But you can ask on geekhack.org (they've got a bunch of European members), or use Autohotkey to program any board you want.


----------



## innocenceisdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Unfortunately I can't help you much there, as I try to avoid that layout. But you can ask on geekhack.org (they've got a bunch of European members), or use Autohotkey to program any board you want.


Thanks for the help anyway







I'll definitely check those places out.

Yes, I believe you are right about just needing to find a UK supplier of mechanical keyboards. They seem to be quite hard to find though









I would just buy a US layout and use autohotkey but the main difference which I am trying to avoid is the different shaped keys such as the smaller return key present on the US layout. This obviously cannot be overcome using software.


----------



## kyle-reece

http://www.keyboardco.com/ UK supplier of mechanical keyboards








the G80s are the ones with standard UK layout


----------



## 88EVGAFTW

Hey, I am looking into getting a mechanical keyboard as I was quite happy with my old Dell KB before i got my Razer lycosa (feels like a POS) but I like the touch screen on it. I'm looking at the ABS M1 keyboard but wasn't too sure what the OP meant about it not feeling right, but he said it was one of the best for gaming.

I just want to know what you guys say about the ABS M1 keyboard and I would likely use it with the Ps2 connection and would that get rid of the "lag or polling" that the USB has?

Also does anyone know if there are any fairly cheap (under 80$) mech keyboards that have a play/pause/volume button?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *88EVGAFTW* 
Hey, I am looking into getting a mechanical keyboard as I was quite happy with my old Dell KB before i got my Razer lycosa (feels like a POS) but I like the touch screen on it. I'm looking at the ABS M1 keyboard but wasn't too sure what the OP meant about it not feeling right, but he said it was one of the best for gaming.

I just want to know what you guys say about the ABS M1 keyboard and I would likely use it with the Ps2 connection and would that get rid of the "lag or polling" that the USB has?

Also does anyone know if there are any fairly cheap (under 80$) mech keyboards that have a play/pause/volume button?

I just prefer the feel of Cherry switches more than Alps ones. But yes if you use that board on PS/2 it will have a better response time - except I think it's only compatible with USB.

Unfortunately I don't know of _any_ Mechanical boards with dedicated media controls except the Matias Tactile Pro (in the OP). However, you _can_ use autohotkey to program your own in. I use RtCtrl+arrows, works pretty well.


----------



## timw4mail

The new Das has fn key Media key combinations.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
The new Das has fn key Media key combinations.

Oh it's already out?

Did they fix the transposition issues the III had?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Oh it's already out?

Did they fix the transposition issues the III had?

It's the Das S, jury's out on the transposition issues.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
It's the Das S, jury's out on the transposition issues.

Well if it's fixed it'll be a nice addition to the list.


----------



## lmnop

Manyak I thought the Windows Key was the modifier in AutoHotKey, you can change it? new Das S series has been out at least a month if not more not much info at GH yet already one complaint you need 2 USB connections


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Manyak I thought the Windows Key was the modifier in AutoHotKey, you can change it? new Das S series has been out at least a month if not more not much info at GH yet already one complaint you need 2 USB connections










Yeah you can use any modifier you want....windows, ctrl...hell you can even use a letter key as a modifier if you really wanted to.

The two USB connections can be modded into one though, and it can be made up for by hooking up your mouse to it instead of directly to the PC. Either way, doesn't everyone have a million spare USB ports these days anyway? Hell, I'm only using 4 out of the 12 my board's got.


----------



## timw4mail

Now, if I could just find a manufacturer for this layout:
http://timshomepage.net/layout.php


----------



## lmnop

I think I will email Adam at TG3/Deck to inquire about custom jobs they strike me as the kind that would do it for the right price.


----------



## Blackhawk4

I'm still trying to find one with a couple more keys for programmable macros etc.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blackhawk4*


I'm still trying to find one with a couple more keys for programmable macros etc.


Gigabyte GK-K8000 would of met your needs. too bad they discontinued it almost immediately.


----------



## Ecchi-BANZAII!!!

There is no love for the most awesome keyboard?


----------



## timw4mail

It's a scissor-switch, a low profile rubber dome with a stabilizing mechanism. It's a step below a mechanical keyboard. It's probably better than the average rubber dome keyboard, but it's still a rubber dome.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


It's a scissor-switch, a low profile rubber dome with a stabilizing mechanism. It's a step below a mechanical keyboard. It's probably better than the average rubber dome keyboard, but it's still a rubber dome.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blackhawk4*


I'm still trying to find one with a couple more keys for programmable macros etc.












according to Yahoo Answers they were not happy with the original OEM some of the laser etching on the Key Caps were misaligned and the CTRL, Space and Enter Keys were not mechanical but the rest were.

Keyboard has Macros, Profile Key, Media Keys, Windows Key Lock, Laser Etched Key Caps, Cherry MX Black Linear with Gold Contacts like the 7G and had a very similar bundle. carrying case, extra macro and non macro key caps, key changer, attachable wrist wrest and to top it off it had a built in C-Media 6300 Audio chip.

one interesting note is the keyboard wasn't hard wired, it comes with a USB to USB cable in the box.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*











according to Yahoo Answers they were not happy with the original OEM some of the laser etching on the Key Caps were misaligned and the CTRL, Space and Enter Keys were not mechanical but the rest were.

Keyboard has Macros, Profile Key, Media Keys, Windows Key Lock, Laser Etched Key Caps, Cherry MX Black Linear with Gold Contacts like the 7G and had a very similar bundle. carrying case, extra macro and non macro key caps, key changer, attachable wrist wrest and to top it off it had a built in C-Media 6300 Audio chip.

one interesting note is the keyboard wasn't hard wired, it comes with a USB to USB cable in the box.


And is next to impossible to confirm that it actually exists. There have been a few people interested in the keyboard, but I don't think any of them actually managed to find one.

Also, linear switches are not very much fun to type on.


----------



## Blackhawk4

I was looking for it but gave up. Nobody I know has it at all. I tried searching everywhere and got nothing. I sent an e-mail to them and they said they aren't making it anymore


----------



## lmnop

tweaktown got a sample, NCIX had it on their website for months. when they launched the Gigabyte Ghost Gaming Series it came out at the same time the Gigabyte GM-M8000 mouse did.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


tweaktown got a sample, NCIX had it on their website for months. when they launched the Gigabyte Ghost Gaming Series it came out at the same time the Gigabyte GM-M8000 mouse did.


That doesn't change the fact that it isn't easy to find.


----------



## lmnop

you can't find it, it's no longer in production. the Yahoo Answers says they are trying to get a new OEM for it but I wouldn't put any stock into it this keyboard came out in 2008 and it's going to be 2010 soon lol


----------



## lmnop

I just contacted Deck and they do custom work. you will have to email with a description, materials to get a quote.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I just contacted Deck and they do custom work. you will have to email with a description, materials to get a quote.










I would think Deck's parent company would actually be doing the work. 
The parent company is TG3. 
http://www.tg3electronics.com/

However, such a custom keyboard would be prohibitively expensive for just one keyboard.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
I would think Deck's parent company would actually be doing the work.
The parent company is TG3.
http://www.tg3electronics.com/

However, such a custom keyboard would be prohibitively expensive for just one keyboard.

yeah they won't be doing any custom fiber glass or thermoplastic castings unless you order enough for a chinese village oh well.

he also told me their spacebar is made out of ABS but every other key is made out of Polyester.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
yeah they won't be doing any custom fiber glass or thermoplastic castings unless you order enough for a chinese village oh well.

he also told me their spacebar is made out of ABS but every other key is made out of Polyester.

Polyester? That sounds weird. Are you sure he didn't mean polycarbonate (PC) or polyvinylchloride (PVC)?


----------



## lmnop

thats what I thought.

Quote:

2. Keycaps are made of Polyester (PBT) except the spacebar which is ABS.

3. There is no additional backplate for the switches on the 82 key model. There is an additional backplate for the 105 key Legend model.

Best Regards,
Adam Martin
IT Administrator/Webmaster
TG3 Electronics, Inc.
http://www.tg3electronics.com

[email protected]
PH: (262)652-2626
FX: (262)652-2121










if you look really close at it the shine gives the perception that the plastic is very pliable and soft.

from wiki

Quote:

Polybutylene terephthalate (PBT) is a plastic that is used as an insulator in the electrical and electronics industries. It is a thermoplastic crystalline polymer, and a type of *polyester*.

PBT is closely related to other thermoplastic polyesters. Compared to PET (Polyethylene terephthalate), PBT has *slightly lower strength and rigidity, slightly better impact resistance*


----------



## timw4mail

I didn't recognize PBT as being a polyester. That makes a little more sense. I understand that Deck keys are double-shot, for the see-through blanks, and then dye-sublimated for the actual key legend.


----------



## lmnop

I am thinking of buying one for Christmas, I am done with my Das Ultimate Professional. I wanted a Custom 105 model in a Fiber Glass housing with a back plate, Cherry MX Black Linear except for the Spacebar I wanted it to be Cherry MX Clear because they are lighter and more tactile.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I am thinking of buying one for Christmas, I am done with my Das Ultimate Professional. I wanted a Custom 105 model in a Fiber Glass housing with a back plate, Cherry MX Black Linear except for the Spacebar I wanted it to be Cherry MX Clear because they are lighter and more tactile.










Odd, I'd want one that has the opposite, all clear, with a linear spacebar.


----------



## lmnop

I grew up with a IBM Model M AT on my XT but once I got my first Celeron I went to a Split Keyboard for a very long time until about a year and a half ago I bought a Das Ultimate Professional. so I "slap chop" (sorry shamwow guy) the corner of my Spacebar with my thumb, it doesn't work on a membrane because it doesn't always register the Das Ultimate Professional definitely improved it. so I inquired about casting a fiber glass split housing and thats when the whole chinese village and hoping they would all go dyslexic over night came in. I had to try









I can't get a split keyboard with Cherry MX Black Linear, only ones available are Membrane and ALPS I think. so if I have to live with a flat keyboard I want to make sure my Spacebar is tactile and light weight the Cherry MX Clear made sense because they are stiff like the Cherry MX Black Linear but lighter so they won't offset the keyboard too much.

here is a nice video of the Deck Legend 105 (turn up volume)


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I can't get a split keyboard with Cherry MX Black Linear, only ones available are Membrane and ALPS I think. so if I have to live with a flat keyboard I want to make sure my Spacebar is tactile and light weight the Cherry MX Clear made sense because they are stiff like the Cherry MX Black Linear but lighter so they won't offset the keyboard too much.


There's a much easier way to get an ergonomic keyboard with MX Black switches.

First, pick a keyboard you want from this list. Some of those use Alps, but I'm pretty sure that at least the Maltron and Kinesis boards use Cherry MX Browns.

Then buy the linear switches from digikey (catalog page), and replace them yourself.


----------



## innocenceisdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kyle-reece*


http://www.keyboardco.com/ UK supplier of mechanical keyboards








the G80s are the ones with standard UK layout


Nice, thanks a lot.

Will probably get this one when it comes back in stock:
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=510
I kind of wish the price wasn't so steep though.


----------



## 88EVGAFTW

I noticed all the Home Depot keyboards were Cherry, but with the Credit Card device built in but the guy asked if I needed one. I didn't ask if I could have one but I just said those Cherry KBs are supposed to be really good.

I also forgot to look under the keyboard but what are the chances that that Cherry KB with Credit Card device built in is the same key type and just as good as the G80s? If it is the same I may be able to get one, he said "Oh man we burn through these quick" so that sorta made me think twice and think maybe they have a lesser model?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *88EVGAFTW*


I noticed all the Home Depot keyboards were Cherry, but with the Credit Card device built in but the guy asked if I needed one. I didn't ask if I could have one but I just said those Cherry KBs are supposed to be really good.

I also forgot to look under the keyboard but what are the chances that that Cherry KB with Credit Card device built in is the same key type and just as good as the G80s? If it is the same I may be able to get one, he said "Oh man we burn through these quick" so that sorta made me think twice and think maybe they have a lesser model?










Well they do make rubber dome boards as well, so it wouldn't be a surprise if they made them with card readers as well.


----------



## Damir Poljak

Got any one cheap with good n-key Rollover (NKRO) to recommend? I am getting frustrated when I can't press D while I am holding SPACE+R in my games.
Thanx +1 for the thread


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damir Poljak*


Got any one cheap with good n-key Rollover (NKRO) to recommend? I am getting frustrated when I can't press D while I am holding SPACE+R in my games.
Thanx +1 for the thread


Cheap and n-key don't happen together. But you can get an n-key rollover Filco from http://elitekeyboards.com.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Damir Poljak* 
Got any one cheap with good n-key Rollover (NKRO) to recommend? I am getting frustrated when I can't press D while I am holding SPACE+R in my games.
Thanx +1 for the thread

it's not mechanical but i-Rocks KR-6820E-BK it's inexpensive, backlit, slim, USB 6 N-Key Rollover, PS/2 11 N-Key Rollover.

according to a GeekHack Review

Quote:

The keys have a nice tactile bump to them for being rubber domes, they feel roughly the same as an n52te keys, but perhaps a bit heavier. I think the two of them together will make a really nice illuminated set for gaming in the dark.

Quote:

In ps/2 mode this keyboard appears to have full n-key rollover, I couldn't get it to fail. It passed all the way from qwas, to qwertasdfg, all the way to 13 till I couldn't press more keys at a time. It has the normal 6 key usb limitations. Its strange though that they don't include a ps/2 adapter, I had to use one of my own.
source

not bad for a membrane.


----------



## BlackHoleSun

So I soon will purchase a mechanical keyboard. I am going to be attending Graduate school starting next summer, and I want a keyboard that is sufficient to type my thesis (about 80 to 120 pages) out on. I saw that Cherry MX-Blue Switches seem to be the best for this and I was looking into which keyboard is right for me. Now I am almost 100% a touch typer, but I do sometimes need to look (read as putz around) until I find that key that I don't commonly use, perhaps maybe one of the keys above the arrow keys.

Now I think the Filco is probably the best fit for me, but they don't seem to have any keyboards left at elitekeyboards.com that don't have blank keycaps. Should I just wait for the non-blanks to come out, or just suck it up and get the blank one? I was also eying up the red chassis keyboards. Red is not anywhere near my favorite color, blue is, but I have everything else in blue and sometimes I just like the look of red.

Sorry for the ramble, but I hope my question can be answered!

EDIT: Well both are gone, so does anyone know when new ones will come in?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlackHoleSun* 
So I soon will purchase a mechanical keyboard. I am going to be attending Graduate school starting next summer, and I want a keyboard that is sufficient to type my thesis (about 80 to 120 pages) out on. I saw that Cherry MX-Blue Switches seem to be the best for this and I was looking into which keyboard is right for me. Now I am almost 100% a touch typer, but I do sometimes need to look (read as putz around) until I find that key that I don't commonly use, perhaps maybe one of the keys above the arrow keys.

Now I think the Filco is probably the best fit for me, but they don't seem to have any keyboards left at elitekeyboards.com that don't have blank keycaps. Should I just wait for the non-blanks to come out, or just suck it up and get the blank one? I was also eying up the red chassis keyboards. Red is not anywhere near my favorite color, blue is, but I have everything else in blue and sometimes I just like the look of red.

Sorry for the ramble, but I hope my question can be answered!

EDIT: Well both are gone, so does anyone know when new ones will come in?

Nope, but if you send him an email he's pretty good with responding!

Either way, blank keys will pretty much turn you into a full touch typist. And I do know that he's planning on selling a lettered keycap set for the Filcos in addition to the blank set sometime in the near future, so even if you pick up a blank board and hate it you'll most likely be able to just buy a set of lettered caps in a few months. This is also something you can ask him in an email, see if he's got a planned date yet









Either way, for _really_ heavy writing like that, I suggest picking up a Topre Realforce instead of a mechanical board if you can afford it (also found on elitekeyboards.com). The keys are a _lot_ lighter and have excellent tactile feedback. And just like mechanicals, you don't have to press the key down to the bottom for it to register. You definitely won't get tired fingers no matter how many hours you use it, and it should last at least 75% as long as a mechanical (in other words, its life still measured in decades).

But yeah if you don't want to spend that much, Cherry Blues are an excellent choice


----------



## timw4mail

Or, if you are perpetually cheap, like I am, you can get a blank Filco keyset for a Scorpius M10, the keysets are completely compatible, with the exception of the Windows keys.


----------



## Zerkk

So guys, I've been using my IBM model M ever since I found it and I love it, but my family does not. It's to loud and it's a bit disturbing to those around me I guess. Any suggestions on a keyboard similar to the model M that's not as loud? Maybe half as loud? I try and type soft at night but it's still to damn loud and I find my self still typing hard at times.

I've read the reviews and stuff watched some videos but it's hard comparing the model M to something that you can't try in person...

Edit: I've looked into the Filco's in the past, I really like the 87 key setup


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Zerkk*


So guys, I've been using my IBM model M ever since I found it and I love it, but my family does not. It's to loud and it's a bit disturbing to those around me I guess. Any suggestions on a keyboard similar to the model M that's not as loud? Maybe half as loud? I try and type soft at night but it's still to damn loud and I find my self still typing hard at times.

I've read the reviews and stuff watched some videos but it's hard comparing the model M to something that you can't try in person...

Edit: I've looked into the Filco's in the past, I really like the 87 key setup










Besides the spacebar, I don't think the Model M is really that noisy. (Especially compared to an IBM Model F AT keyboard) There really isn't much like the Model M that's quiet.

Blue Cherry's actually seem louder to me because of their pitch. Brown cherries aren't clicky, but they also aren't as tactile.

The quietest mechanical keyboards have Cherry MX black, or Cherry MY switches, neither of which offers ANY tactile feedback.


----------



## lmnop

isn't there a rubber insert or washer mod for the Model M?


----------



## MijnWraak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlackHoleSun* 
So I soon will purchase a mechanical keyboard. I am going to be attending Graduate school starting next summer, and I want a keyboard that is sufficient to type my thesis (about 80 to 120 pages) out on. I saw that Cherry MX-Blue Switches seem to be the best for this and I was looking into which keyboard is right for me. Now I am almost 100% a touch typer, but I do sometimes need to look (read as putz around) until I find that key that I don't commonly use, perhaps maybe one of the keys above the arrow keys.

Now I think the Filco is probably the best fit for me, but they don't seem to have any keyboards left at elitekeyboards.com that don't have blank keycaps. Should I just wait for the non-blanks to come out, or just suck it up and get the blank one? I was also eying up the red chassis keyboards. Red is not anywhere near my favorite color, blue is, but I have everything else in blue and sometimes I just like the look of red.

Sorry for the ramble, but I hope my question can be answered!

EDIT: Well both are gone, so does anyone know when new ones will come in?

If you really are interested in getting a cherry-blue filco, I might consider selling mine to you (used for about 2 weeks)







PM me once you decide what you want to do.


----------



## Starbuck5000

Looking at that Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO I could do with getting a machanical keyboard as I have a bad habbit of pummeling keyboards when i type. On the site they say

# 104 Key US ANSI Layout

Do they offer a UK layout?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Starbuck5000* 
Looking at that Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO I could do with getting a machanical keyboard as I have a bad habbit of pummeling keyboards when i type. On the site they say

# 104 Key US ANSI Layout

Do they offer a UK layout?

Unfortunately, no. You can contact Diatec and see if they can do it for you, but there isn't a UK model.


----------



## BlackHoleSun

As much as I would like to go capacitive touch, I can't spend that much on a keyboard, lol. I am really looking for the FILCOs to come back in stock at elitekeyboard.com so I shot them an email. If they don't offer the blank key caps, I might just buy a set, and mix and match. Take all the letter keys and replace them with blanks, but until I become a full touch typist I will leave the other keys intact until I get them all down!

Plus I want the sexy Italian Red chassis! BTW, can you change the LEDs on the board? I assume so as I want to go with red or orange ones.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BlackHoleSun*


As much as I would like to go capacitive touch, I can't spend that much on a keyboard, lol. I am really looking for the FILCOs to come back in stock at elitekeyboard.com so I shot them an email. If they don't offer the blank key caps, I might just buy a set, and mix and match. Take all the letter keys and replace them with blanks, but until I become a full touch typist I will leave the other keys intact until I get them all down!

Plus I want the sexy Italian Red chassis! BTW, can you change the LEDs on the board? I assume so as I want to go with red or orange ones.


They sell sets of blank keys.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BlackHoleSun*


As much as I would like to go capacitive touch, I can't spend that much on a keyboard, lol. I am really looking for the FILCOs to come back in stock at elitekeyboard.com so I shot them an email. If they don't offer the blank key caps, I might just buy a set, and mix and match. Take all the letter keys and replace them with blanks, but until I become a full touch typist I will leave the other keys intact until I get them all down!

Plus I want the sexy Italian Red chassis! BTW, can you change the LEDs on the board? I assume so as I want to go with red or orange ones.


Of course you can, just make sure you do the right voltage calculations. You might need to remove or add a resistor to get the voltage levels to what the new LEDs will need.


----------



## BlackHoleSun

Easy peasy, lol. I guess I can use that Electrical Engineering knowledge junk they keep teaching me.

Maybe just throw some Luxeons in there so I light up the whole room, and then destroy the keyboard because I tried to draw 4 amps worth of current through USB.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BlackHoleSun*


Easy peasy, lol. I guess I can use that Electrical Engineering knowledge junk they keep teaching me.

Maybe just throw some Luxeons in there so I light up the whole room, and then destroy the keyboard because I tried to draw 4 amps worth of current through USB.


That would most likely destroy the computer too...


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


That would most likely destroy the computer too...


Not if it was hooked up to a USB hub!


----------



## Damir Poljak

How about this one: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16823204016?
My wife would like wireless so I am considering this one








If somebody can tell me if this keyboard have more than 5 key rollover?
If not, I would buy http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16823204015.
I am also interested is anti ghosting also work around RFDG keys because I play on those keys (not WASD).
Thank you!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Damir Poljak*


How about this one: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16823204016?
My wife would like wireless so I am considering this one








If somebody can tell me if this keyboard have more than 5 key rollover?
If not, I would buy http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16823204015.
I am also interested is anti ghosting also work around RFDG keys because I play on those keys (not WASD).
Thank you!


Well, neither of them are mechanical, and that's about all I know.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Well, neither of them are mechanical, and that's about all I know.


6520 is Scissor and Wireless.
6820 is Membrane and Back Lighting.

they have similar layouts, both use slim keycaps.


----------



## Damir Poljak

What I am interested is are they having 4+ key roll? I know that 6820 have 11-16 key rollover but I cant find anything about 6520 (wireless one).


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Damir Poljak* 
What I am interested is are they having 4+ key roll? I know that 6820 have 11-16 key rollover but I cant find anything about 6520 (wireless one).

yeah I know only one extensive review, 20 replies and not one word of rollover. you may want to contact the owner of that keyboard and ask him if he knows or to do the NKRO test.


----------



## Damir Poljak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
yeah I know only one extensive review, 20 replies and not one word of rollover. you may want to contact the owner of that keyboard and ask him if he knows or to do the NKRO test.

Where to contact him?


----------



## lmnop

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6264 bottom right.

Quote:

Created by itlnstln, 16 June 2009 at 18:47
Last edited by itlnstln, 16 June 2009 at 18:50
Last comment by ripster on 12 August 2009 at 19:17
20 Comments, 1,626 Views
the Kensington 64365 is a standard 104 with slightly different lay out, scissor switches, wired but has 6 NKRO.


----------



## BlackHoleSun

Elitekeyboards.com got back to me and the FILCO tactile click keyboards with the MX-Blue switches will be back in stock around mid December. That gives me some time to save up some cash for one!


----------



## Damir Poljak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6264 bottom right.

the Kensington 64365 is a standard 104 with slightly different lay out, scissor switches, wired but has 6 NKRO.


Well, to bad, only 2 key rollover :/ I am buying kr-6820e.
Thanx for the advice!


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


There's a much easier way to get an ergonomic keyboard with MX Black switches.

First, pick a keyboard you want from this list. Some of those use Alps, but I'm pretty sure that at least the Maltron and Kinesis boards use Cherry MX Browns.

Then buy the linear switches from digikey (catalog page), and replace them yourself.


I think it is cheaper for me to buy say a Cherry G80 Keyboard with Cherry MX Black Linear versus buying 100-105 Cherry MX Black Linear switches from a supplier. so I buy a Ergonomic that uses say White Alps but some Ergonomics have larger Keys than others so if I replace them with the Cherry G80 Key Caps and Switches i'm going to have a gaping hole in the face plate? and it's apparent no 2 spacebars are the same on a Ergonomic so how do I overcome that?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I think it is cheaper for me to buy say a Cherry G80 Keyboard with Cherry MX Black Linear versus buying 100-105 Cherry MX Black Linear switches from a supplier. so I buy a Ergonomic that uses say White Alps but some Ergonomics have larger Keys than others so if I replace them with the Cherry G80 Key Caps and Switches i'm going to have a gaping hole in the face plate? and it's apparent no 2 spacebars are the same on a Ergonomic so how do I overcome that?


How about you pick an ergonomic with cherry switches, then just put the MX Black switches from the G80 into it. This way you don't have to worry about the keycaps.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


How about you pick an ergonomic with cherry switches, then just put the MX Black switches from the G80 into it. This way you don't have to worry about the keycaps.


how many use Cherry Switches, I know one uses Brown. can't remember which. most use Alps or Tactile Membrane.

this is what I mean










see the escape key, i'm sure the Switch inside whatever it may be is centered but the Keycap is really large it's pretty much 2 Keycaps so if I put a standard Keycap in there is going to be a gaping hole







on a positive note it looks like it uses 2 standard size spacebars but not a lot of Ergonomics do.


----------



## honk_honk

Is it possible to buy blank alps keys somewhere, or do I have to buy a board and cannibalize it?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *honk_honk*


Is it possible to buy blank alps keys somewhere, or do I have to buy a board and cannibalize it?


Call these guys up and ask. Since they won't be printed I don't think it'll cost that much.


----------



## murderbymodem

Hey guys, I'm looking for a keyboard around $50, right now I'm debating between a B-stock Filco, and the ABS M1. Thoughts?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


Hey guys, I'm looking for a keyboard around $50, right now I'm debating between a B-stock Filco, and the ABS M1. Thoughts?


Some people who bought the ABS found that its got terrible quality, so I'd say watch out for that.

As for which one you'll like better - well the Filco Zero has a more significant tactile bump and clicks when you press it, while the ABS's switches aren't as sharp and don't click.

Personally, I'd take the Filco


----------



## timw4mail

I'd really recommend the Scorpius above the ALPS-clones, like the Filco Zero and the ABS M1.


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


I'd really recommend the Scorpius above the ALPS-clones, like the Filco Zero and the ABS M1.


http://www.parkoz.com/zboard/view.ph...album&no=51766

Do not want...


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


http://www.parkoz.com/zboard/view.ph...album&no=51766

Do not want...


I've had my Scorpius for a while and it's never had that kind of issue. They do seem to be better soldered than they used to be.


----------



## grantb5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *honk_honk* 
Is it possible to buy blank alps keys somewhere, or do I have to buy a board and cannibalize it?

Similarly I'm looking for some (cool?) blank Cherry MX keys for a keypad. I don't need sculpted or whatever it's called. I would prefer flat on top, but at this point I'll probably take what I can get.

I bought some relegendable ones from a surplus joint and they were crap. I also bought some blank ones from Deck, but they're goofy (black perimeter with white face). I'm not backlighting them.

These look cool (Tipro), but I'm in the US, not Australia:
http://www.umd.com.au/itd/products/kt_keycaps.html

Any leads in the US for decent looking blank Cherry key tops anyone?


----------



## timw4mail

Here's where you can get some:
http://www.smcelectronics.com/swkey.htm

There's not much variety, and they probably don't have thousands of them, but they are blank.

(The sets of keys are toward the bottom of the page)


----------



## JHeaton

Hello









I've been reading through this thread with interest and have also been doing my own research. I really want a mechanical keyboard, since I spend a lot of my time typing and currently the only thing I have available is a horribly uncomfortable Â£5 keyboard that I really, really do not enjoy typing with.

The unfortunate problem I seem to have is that my options are very limited. My choices is essentially restricted to the Unicomp Customizer or Spacesaver keyboards, the Cherry G80-3000 or the Das Keyboard Model S (if I wait until mid-December). That's not a lot of choice and I would quite like something that fits in with everything else on my desk (borderline OCD, apparently :/) which pretty much rules out the Unicomp. The Cherry looks a little cumbersome, also.

What I'd like to know is, are the Filco Majestouch, ABS M1 or iOne Scorpius M10 available with a UK layout? They all look much nicer and appear to have a smaller footprint, which would be helpful. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be able to cope with a US layout, so if it isn't possible to get one with the UK layout then I'm out of luck. Which would be a shame :/

Any input is appreciated









Kind regards,

Joel.


----------



## Manyak

The Filcos don't come in a UK layout for sure, but I don't know about the other two.

But one question: do you want the UK layout just for the shapes of certain keys (like Enter), or do you only need it for the extra characters and symbol placement like the Â£ sign? Because if it's just for the characters you can just use Autohotkey to program any keyboard you like.


----------



## JHeaton

For both, actually. Having spent thirteen years on a UK layout keyboard, I'm afraid that the habit will be quite hard to break. I know I could just change all of the keys around to work the way that I want using xmodmap, but the extended left Shift key and the backslash being placed above the Enter key is something that I think might throw me. The thing is, I'd have no way of testing because I don't have access to a US-layout keyboard.

I'd be willing to try it on something cheap and then make the decision, but without being able to do that I think the only safe thing is to stick with what I know.

Thanks for replying


----------



## MijnWraak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JHeaton* 
For both, actually. Having spent thirteen years on a UK layout keyboard, I'm afraid that the habit will be quite hard to break. I know I could just change all of the keys around to work the way that I want using xmodmap, but the extended left Shift key and the backslash being placed above the Enter key is something that I think might throw me. The thing is, I'd have no way of testing because I don't have access to a US-layout keyboard.

I'd be willing to try it on something cheap and then make the decision, but without being able to do that I think the only safe thing is to stick with what I know.

Thanks for replying









I really don't think you'd have trouble changing to the US layout. The larger left shift key is great IMO, and noone uses the backslash key that often







.

Also where is the " key on the UK lyt? I can't find it







Seems very convenient next to enter key for me.

edit: nvm found the " key







. Seems pretty out of the way to quote something. Really though I think you'd benefit a lot from a mechanical keyboard even if it is a different layout.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JHeaton* 
For both, actually. Having spent thirteen years on a UK layout keyboard, I'm afraid that the habit will be quite hard to break. I know I could just change all of the keys around to work the way that I want using xmodmap, but the extended left Shift key and the backslash being placed above the Enter key is something that I think might throw me. The thing is, I'd have no way of testing because I don't have access to a US-layout keyboard.

I'd be willing to try it on something cheap and then make the decision, but without being able to do that I think the only safe thing is to stick with what I know.

Thanks for replying









Well the left shift shouldn't be a problem - even if you reach where you normally would the key is still there, there's just some extra hanging off the side.

But yeah there are a couple of extra keys that just aren't there on the US layout. I bet you could get a cheap US one locally somewhere, they shouldn't be that hard to find.


----------



## JHeaton

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MijnWraak* 
I really don't think you'd have trouble changing to the US layout. The larger left shift key is great IMO, and noone uses the backslash key that often







.

Also where is the " key on the UK lyt? I can't find it







Seems very convenient next to enter key for me.

edit: nvm found the " key







. Seems pretty out of the way to quote something. Really though I think you'd benefit a lot from a mechanical keyboard even if it is a different layout.

I don't think there's much difference when it comes to " as they are both next to a shift key on the respective layouts.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak*
Well the left shift shouldn't be a problem - even if you reach where you normally would the key is still there, there's just some extra hanging off the side.

But yeah there are a couple of extra keys that just aren't there on the US layout. I bet you could get a cheap US one locally somewhere, they shouldn't be that hard to find.

Hmm, maybe. I think fear of change is a big part of this, too









Of those I mentioned above, which one would you most recommend? It's not going to be used for any gaming, but typing long documents, programming etc.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JHeaton* 
I don't think there's much difference when it comes to " as they are both next to a shift key on the respective layouts.









Hmm, maybe. I think fear of change is a big part of this, too









Of those I mentioned above, which one would you most recommend? It's not going to be used for any gaming, but typing long documents, programming etc.

You'll probably want either Cherry Blue or Cherry Brown switches. You'll find the Blues on the Filcos and Das, and the Browns on the Filco. The G80-3000 could be anything, there's a whole decryption process to go through with the full model number to figure out what switch you'll be getting. It's a royal pain lol.


----------



## JHeaton

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


You'll probably want either Cherry Blue or Cherry Brown switches. You'll find the Blues on the Filcos and Das, and the Browns on the Filco. The G80-3000 could be anything, there's a whole decryption process to go through with the full model number to figure out what switch you'll be getting. It's a royal pain lol.


The particular that I was looking G80-3000 has the Blues, according to the site I'd be purchasing from. Is the Das Model S actually any good? I hear a lot of people saying it's spectacular and then a lot saying it's trash.


----------



## rfjunkie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


Hey guys, I'm looking for a keyboard around $50, right now I'm debating between a B-stock Filco, and the ABS M1. Thoughts?



I have two of the Filco B-stock tenkeyless keyboards and like them both. They are a little noisy (Very clicky), but that is kind of what I was looking for when I got them. Great keyboard for the price.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JHeaton*


The particular that I was looking G80-3000 has the Blues, according to the site I'd be purchasing from. Is the Das Model S actually any good? I hear a lot of people saying it's spectacular and then a lot saying it's trash.










Couldn't tell you, I haven't heard much about it









But whatever you do don't get the Das III, that keyboard has lots of transposition issues.


----------



## KipH

Here is a harder one. My mother has arthritis and is a deplorable typer. What would be a good keyboard for her? She will probably want quieter and small, to go with her net book.


----------



## JHeaton

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Couldn't tell you, I haven't heard much about it









But whatever you do don't get the Das III, that keyboard has lots of transposition issues.

Which is the Das III? On their website I can only find the Original and Model S variants. The one I was looking at is this one:

http://www.daskeyboard.com/daskeyboa...ofessional.php

Is that the one I should definitely avoid?

Thanks,

Joel.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JHeaton*


Which is the Das III? On their website I can only find the Original and Model S variants. The one I was looking at is this one:

http://www.daskeyboard.com/daskeyboa...ofessional.php

Is that the one I should definitely avoid?

Thanks,

Joel.


Generally, the advice is to avoid the Das. The Das III was the model before the Das S. The Das S was very recently released, then recalled, because it just plain didn't work correctly.


----------



## kyle-reece

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JHeaton*


For both, actually. Having spent thirteen years on a UK layout keyboard, I'm afraid that the habit will be quite hard to break. I know I could just change all of the keys around to work the way that I want using xmodmap, but the extended left Shift key and the backslash being placed above the Enter key is something that I think might throw me. The thing is, I'd have no way of testing because I don't have access to a US-layout keyboard.

I'd be willing to try it on something cheap and then make the decision, but without being able to do that I think the only safe thing is to stick with what I know.

Thanks for replying










heres a cheap us layout keyboard if you wanna test it
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...id=23&subcat=2

as someone who has only recently started using the US layout keyboards IMO the US layout is by far superior in all ways except for the " and @ keys. a real pain to use the right keys, i'm still typing " XXXXX"hotmail.com and he said @[email protected] "







once that's out of the system though i don't see me ever going back

Right now i just gotta figure out how to have the caps lock key act as the backspace key when pressed as well as when held down.


----------



## JHeaton

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


Generally, the advice is to avoid the Das. The Das III was the model before the Das S. The Das S was very recently released, then recalled, because it just plain didn't work correctly.


Ah, I see. That's a shame, because the Das happens to have the kind of look that really appeals to me. :/

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kyle-reece*

heres a cheap us layout keyboard if you wanna test it
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...id=23&subcat=2

as someone who has only recently started using the US layout keyboards IMO the US layout is by far superior in all ways except for the " and @ keys. a real pain to use the right keys, i'm still typing " XXXXX"hotmail.com and he said @[email protected] " once that's out of the system though i don't see me ever going back

Right now i just gotta figure out how to have the caps lock key act as the backspace key when pressed as well as when held down.


Cool. Is that keyboard actually a US layout or have Overclockers UK just taken the image of a US layout keyboard from Microsoft and used it to advertise a UK layout keyboard?


----------



## kyle-reece

Assuming the Q95-00086 is what they send you then yes it is an US layout, if you get a uk layout send it back (not very likely from my experience with them).


----------



## JHeaton

Cool, thanks. I think I'll try one. I need to order something from OCUK soon anyway, so I can just tag that on


----------



## olli3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *laurie*












Does anyone know what board this is? (posted on 1st page)

I've seen my dad has it laying around somewhere not being used, just wondered if it would be worth grabbing next time I'm back from uni.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *olli3* 
Does anyone know what board this is? (posted on 1st page)

I've seen my dad has it laying around somewhere not being used, just wondered if it would be worth grabbing next time I'm back from uni.

SGI AT101. Is it worth it? Well try it out and see if you like it


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


SGI AT101. Is it worth it? Well try it out and see if you like it










It's supposed be slightly better than the Dell AT101W, isn't it?


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rfjunkie*


I have two of the Filco B-stock tenkeyless keyboards and like them both. They are a little noisy (Very clicky), but that is kind of what I was looking for when I got them. Great keyboard for the price.


Thanks, I ordered one. I hope I like it!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


It's supposed be slightly better than the Dell AT101W, isn't it?


I'm pretty sure it uses White ALPS instead of Black, but other than that I think they're the same.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


Thanks, I ordered one. I hope I like it!










Well let us know!









Just give it a week or two before you make your final decision, as it can take your fingers a bit to adjust to not having to bottom out all the time.


----------



## JHeaton

So, the MS keyboard on the OCUK website wasn't in the US layout, but we had a really old US layout keyboard lying around in an old crate in a rather damp store cupboard. It wasn't hard to type with, as I had feared. Alright, I didn't want to touch it because it was disgusting, but after wiping it down I gave it a go. Spent a few hours typing on it (mostly complaints >.>) and decided that I could deal with it if I remapped the keys.

And then...

I ordered the Filco.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JHeaton*


So, the MS keyboard on the OCUK website wasn't in the US layout, but we had a really old US layout keyboard lying around in an old crate in a rather damp store cupboard. It wasn't hard to type with, as I had feared. Alright, I didn't want to touch it because it was disgusting, but after wiping it down I gave it a go. Spent a few hours typing on it (mostly complaints >.>) and decided that I could deal with it if I remapped the keys.

And then...

I ordered the Filco.










Awesome


----------



## JHeaton

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Awesome










Looking forward to it. I have quite a wait (well, couple of weeks) but I'm sure it will be worth it. I went for the tenkeyless model with Cherry Blues. Can't wait for it


----------



## Jimi

I use the cheapest keyboards and mouses i can find. They suite my very well for some reason. I've spent like ~$100 on keyboards twice and they both sucked, so I've never bothered. But I definitely didn't know as much as I do after reading this post. Maybe in the future I'll be interested in a used Realforce


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jimi*


I use the cheapest keyboards and mouses i can find. They suite my very well for some reason. I've spent like ~$100 on keyboards twice and they both sucked, so I've never bothered. But I definitely didn't know as much as I do after reading this post. Maybe in the future I'll be interested in a used Realforce


It's definitely true that most 'gaming' keyboards have nowhere near the quality to justify their price.


----------



## tombom

Okay, I bought a cheap mechanical keyboard at a thrift store. Wondering where I can get a good AT-PS2/USB connector?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tombom* 
Okay, I bought a cheap mechanical keyboard at a thrift store. Wondering where I can get a good AT-PS2/USB connector?

Anywhere, they are simple wiring adapters. AT and PS/2 are electrically identical. If you've got a microcenter or radioshack near you they should have one. There are two types - one piece and two piece. You should put some effort into getting a two-piece one because the one-piece can block all the connectors around the PS/2 port, and sometimes not even fit because some cases have the I/O panel recessed.

What keyboard did you get, out of curiosity?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Anywhere, they are simple wiring adapters. AT and PS/2 are electrically identical. If you've got a microcenter or radioshack near you they should have one. There are two types - one piece and two piece. You should put some effort into getting a two-piece one because the one-piece can block all the connectors around the PS/2 port, and sometimes not even fit because some cases have the I/O panel recessed.

What keyboard did you get, out of curiosity?


He also mentioned to USB. 
This one works great for me:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...9599&CatId=469


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


He also mentioned to USB. 
This one works great for me:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...9599&CatId=469


You know, I've had trouble with all PS/2->USB adapters I've ever tried. Either there's a problem with the repeat rate being extremely slow, a problem with rollover, or a problem with held keys being translated into repeated keys.


----------



## SLeeZeY

Just a heads up, I got a cheap basic keyboard from Tesco's the other day for a 5iver (H16VKEY) to use on my spare machine, its smoother than butter.

No good for gaming, a pleasure to type on though.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SLeeZeY* 
Just a heads up, I got a cheap basic keyboard from Tesco's the other day for a 5iver (H16VKEY) to use on my spare machine, its smoother than butter.

No good for gaming, a pleasure to type on though.

It's a run-of-the-mill rubber dome keyboard. It may be more decent mush than others, but it's still typing on mush.


----------



## iandh

Am I correct in assuming that the Filco tenkeyless with Cherry Browns is the BEST choice if:

-I want a top notch quality keyboard with no frills
-I want a keyboard that is equally good for gaming and typing
-The keyboard must be essentially silent (NO clicks)
-I need a light touch to prevent finger fatigue

Basically, I've found this MS Sidewinder X5 is really starting to hurt my fingers with all the typing I've been doing lately for my business stuff, but I need a good board for gaming still.


----------



## MijnWraak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iandh*


Am I correct in assuming that the Filco tenkeyless with Cherry Browns is the BEST choice if:

-I want a top notch quality keyboard with no frills
-I want a keyboard that is equally good for gaming and typing
-The keyboard must be essentially silent (NO clicks)
-I need a light touch to prevent finger fatigue

Basically, I've found this MS Sidewinder X5 is really starting to hurt my fingers with all the typing I've been doing lately for my business stuff, but I need a good board for gaming still.


I'd say get the one with the keypad. Comes in handy with no media buttons and also for general number input.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iandh* 
Am I correct in assuming that the Filco tenkeyless with Cherry Browns is the BEST choice if:

-I want a top notch quality keyboard with no frills
-I want a keyboard that is equally good for gaming and typing
-The keyboard must be essentially silent (NO clicks)
-I need a light touch to prevent finger fatigue

Basically, I've found this MS Sidewinder X5 is really starting to hurt my fingers with all the typing I've been doing lately for my business stuff, but I need a good board for gaming still.

If my memory serves a Realforce or Happy Hacking Keyboard are a tad lighter than Cherry Browns, and I don't believe they click. They're very high quality, and certainly aren't big on frills either. However, at double the price of a Filco it's up to you whether or not that's really worth it.


----------



## tNok85

How are these things with spills?

I have wrecked a few keyboards with spills - thankfully cheapos - but I'd be very upset if I broke a $100-$150+ with a drink.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tNok85* 
How are these things with spills?

I have wrecked a few keyboards with spills - thankfully cheapos - but I'd be very upset if I broke a $100-$150+ with a drink.

surely you are not that careless. mechanical keyboards are prone to damage by liquids like any other keyboard. there are some liquid resistant mechanical keyboards like some of these. I don't think there are many people who own a mechanical keyboard who don't have basic knowledge of the inner workings it kinda comes with the territory. once you buy one you should have a better understanding and learn tips and tricks, modifications and the inner workings. how does this help against spills? you will hopefully be able to repair it yourself if it's past the warranty.


----------



## Manyak

iandh:

Yup you picked the best mechanical switches for what you're looking for. I'd say you want either those or the Topre switches (Realforce boards). Topre are capacitive, not mechanical, but they feel absolutely great. They're twice the price though, and because they use rubber they'll probably last about 1/2 as long as a mechanical (but still a lot longer than regular contact-base rubber domes).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tNok85*


How are these things with spills?

I have wrecked a few keyboards with spills - thankfully cheapos - but I'd be very upset if I broke a $100-$150+ with a drink.


Some are great, some suck really badly. For example, certain Model Ms and Customizers are almost impossible to wreck with liquid just as long as you don't tip it so that the liquid goes towards the top where the PCB is. If you spill something besides water, then spill a bit of water on it too to flush it out and leave it to dry for a few days and it'll be good. But if you spill something on a Cherry MX11800 you'll need to take it apart and soak the switches in water to get any sticky crap out of them (assuming you spilled something that isn't water), and then dry the whole thing off so that the PCB doesn't corrode.


----------



## v3rt3x.cub3d

Why are these keyboards (for the most part) so ugly? They look like something off of my old 486. This is not what the majority of people want clearly since keyboards are mostly designed today with sleek exteriors and exotic designs.

Also, why would people spend over 100 dollars on a potentially PS/2 only keyboard when motherboard manufacturers seem to want to get rid of PS/2 ports?

I understand that a strong spring would be helpful to prevent misclicked keys for some who like to rest the weight of their hand on the keyboard (I have this issue with my mouse buttons on cheap mice!) but I don't understand how the tactile feedback would be helpful for people. I always have pressed my keys all the way down while typing, and I'm pretty certain the keyboards on my old computers (133Mhz and 233Mhz lol) were mechanical. Granted I have not used one in a very long time so it could just be me forgetting what it was like.

I'm not trying to bash your guide I just want some answers to certain things that weren't quite clarified with your guide.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v3rt3x.cub3d* 
Why are these keyboards (for the most part) so ugly? They look like something off of my old 486. This is not what the majority of people want clearly since keyboards are mostly designed today with sleek exteriors and exotic designs.

Also, why would people spend over 100 dollars on a potentially PS/2 only keyboard when motherboard manufacturers seem to want to get rid of PS/2 ports?

I understand that a strong spring would be helpful to prevent misclicked keys for some who like to rest the weight of their hand on the keyboard (I have this issue with my mouse buttons on cheap mice!) but I don't understand how the tactile feedback would be helpful for people. I always have pressed my keys all the way down while typing, and I'm pretty certain the keyboards on my old computers (133Mhz and 233Mhz lol) were mechanical. Granted I have not used one in a very long time so it could just be me forgetting what it was like.

I'm not trying to bash your guide I just want some answers to certain things that weren't quite clarified with your guide.

By the time computers hit 133MHz mechanical keyboards were already almost forgotten. The only PCs that still came with a mechanical board at the time were the IBMs - and even then it wasn't included with anything but the top of the line models.

Anyway, as for your questions:

- The majority of people don't even know how to touch type. Why would they care about how the keyboard feels when they have to hunt and peck anyway? Keyboards are made with exotic exteriors and shiny plastic that gets fingerprints all over it because that's simply what appeals to people who don't know or care for the difference underneath the hood. No matter what body kit you put on a Toyota you'll never make it a Ferrari. The Ferrari is simply built better and lasts much longer, just like mechanical keyboards. Besides, there are people such as myself who DON'T want all the useless bells and whistles on these "cool" boards. I much prefer the simple, clean look of a Filco to any of that other crap. And since these boards last through decades of heavy use, it's not like you're really spending any more on one of these than you would on the 5 or 6 regular boards that you'd have to go through in the same amount of time.

Don't believe me? Just check ebay for all the Model M boards from the 1980's. Used for 25 years and still kicking.

- The difference between PS/2 and USB is explained in the OP, and PS/2 is better. But none of the newer boards are PS/2 only. Not even _potentially_.

- The whole point of mechanical boards is so that you DON'T press the keys all the way down. Hitting the bottom of the keyboard is a waste of energy and tires out your fingers. The tactile bump is there so that you can _feel_ exactly when the switch actuates, this way you no longer have to bottom out the switch. It takes a while to get used to but when you do it's a much better typing experience. And a strong spring is only nice for gaming really. For typing, when first coming off a rubber dome you'll probably start with a stiff spring, then as you get used to not bottoming out you'll start to prefer lighter and lighter ones.


----------



## v3rt3x.cub3d

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
By the time computers hit 133MHz mechanical keyboards were already almost forgotten. The only PCs that still came with a mechanical board at the time were the IBMs - and even then it wasn't included with anything but the top of the line models.

I had a 486 as well.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Anyway, as for your questions:

- The majority of people don't even know how to touch type. Why would they care about how the keyboard feels when they have to hunt and peck anyway? Keyboards are made with exotic exteriors and shiny plastic that gets fingerprints all over it because that's simply what appeals to people who don't know or care for the difference underneath the hood. No matter what body kit you put on a Toyota you'll never make it a Ferrari. The Ferrari is simply built better and lasts much longer, just like mechanical keyboards. Besides, there are people such as myself who DON'T want all the useless bells and whistles on these "cool" boards. I much prefer the simple, clean look of a Filco to any of that other crap. And since these boards last through decades of heavy use, it's not like you're really spending any more on one of these than you would on the 5 or 6 regular boards that you'd have to go through in the same amount of time.

I've never had a keyboard die on my in my life, and I've only owned three keyboards, I switched the first because my newer computer didn't have a PS/2 port (go figure) and I switched again because I bought a G15 because I like the G15.

I am a touch typist, I do not look at my keyboard and can type in the dark if need be. Most people may not be, but as a touch typist I've never had an issue with membrane keyboards.

And again, I also said that your opinion may differ, but you are not the majority of people, businesses care about who makes them the most money, you do not seem to fall under this category.

As an addition: This still doesn't clarify why these mechanical keyboard makers wouldn't just also make a mechanical keyboard that looks sleek and would get the attention of both people who want a quality keyboard and also something that looks nice? Or am I missing something, are these two groups mutually exclusive?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Don't believe me? Just check ebay for all the Model M boards from the 1980's. Used for 25 years and still kicking.

I never said that mechanical keyboards were less durable than you made them out to be, I wouldn't doubt it either. However the tone of your post seems to be a little elitist and hostile.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
- The difference between PS/2 and USB is explained in the OP, and PS/2 is better. But none of the newer boards are PS/2 only. Not even _potentially_.

I also don't remember asking if PS/2 was better or not, that was quite clear, I was asking why it would be justified to get PS/2 when some mobos were already phasing it out (though I still see a single PS/2 port on some boards like the Rampage II and the Classified I'm assuming for mechanical keyboard enthusiasts).

This is a nice thing to know, however doesn't this completely nullify the so well referenced complete n-rollover when using USB?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
The whole point of mechanical boards is so that you DON'T press the keys all the way down. Hitting the bottom of the keyboard is a waste of energy and tires out your fingers. The tactile bump is there so that you can _feel_ exactly when the switch actuates, this way you no longer have to bottom out the switch. It takes a while to get used to but when you do it's a much better typing experience. And a strong spring is only nice for gaming really. For typing, when first coming off a rubber dome you'll probably start with a stiff spring, then as you get used to not bottoming out you'll start to prefer lighter and lighter ones.

I cannot disagree with this point, as the last mechanical keyboard I would have possibly used would have been 15+ years ago. I remember it being extremely loud and it sounded like a machine gun when my father was programming.

I don't think I would change my typing style though I believe I do understand what you are talking about by not bottoming out the keys, I notice very infrequently sometimes even though I have pressed a key on my G15 it doesn't register, this only happens on a few keys farthest from my typing location, I am probably not giving them enough force to register.


----------



## tylerand

Oh god, these are like the keyboard they used to have at our school... I'm not sure if they've gotten any better since those times, but man did i ever hate those things back then.

They are so hard to type with in my opinion compared to nice flat keyboards (the laptop type, my favorite for gaming and typing).


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tylerand*


Oh god, these are like the keyboard they used to have at our school... I'm not sure if they've gotten any better since those times, but man did i ever hate those things back then.

They are so hard to type with in my opinion compared to nice flat keyboards (the laptop type, my favorite for gaming and typing).


School keyboards are a horrible judge of any types of keyboards.


----------



## tylerand

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


School keyboards are a horrible judge of any types of keyboards.


Yes, but i don't want to spend $100 on a keyboard i'm going to hate. I'm seriously considering these keyboards considering how much i've been hearing about them, but if i'm going to receive it and absolutely hate it... i'll be angry. At myself that is.


----------



## jcky

some of these mech switches keyboards are USB that comes with a PS/2 addon.
Is there a difference between a keyboard that comes with the purple PS/2 addon vs. one that has one built in it wires?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v3rt3x.cub3d* 
I've never had a keyboard die on my in my life, and I've only owned three keyboards, I switched the first because my newer computer didn't have a PS/2 port (go figure) and I switched again because I bought a G15 because I like the G15.

It's not so much that they always _die_, it's mostly that the keys become very uneven, with different keys requiring different amounts of force, and maybe some keys won't register well anymore, and other similar signs of wear. Complete death would mean that the controller itself died, which is extremely unlikely no matter what the keyboard is.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v3rt3x.cub3d* 
I am a touch typist, I do not look at my keyboard and can type in the dark if need be. Most people may not be, but as a touch typist I've never had an issue with membrane keyboards.

Most people don't have any issues, which is why they are fine for 90% of the world's computer users. And hell, there are plenty of membrane keyboards I'd use way before some mechanical switches (all depending on the specific switches and domes you're comparing). I wouldn't touch a Logitech G-keyboard with a 10 ft pole, but give me an IBM Ultranav or Topre Realforce and I'll be more than happy with it.

The thing is that you'll never _really_ know the difference until you try it. Think of it like with cars....if you've never driven anything but a Prius your whole life you'll be more than happy with its performance. But once you get a taste of a Lamborghini you'll never see your car the same way again.

That's actually kind of a bad analogy because keyboard switches aren't as clear-cut to judge as engine performance, but you get the idea.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v3rt3x.cub3d* 
And again, I also said that your opinion may differ, but you are not the majority of people, businesses care about who makes them the most money, you do not seem to fall under this category.

Yup you've got the idea. You get more profits selling a keyboard that costs $1 to make for $50 than you get selling a $50 board for $100 to fewer people.

Though at the same time, certain business do actually save money by buying mechanical keyboards. Newspapers for example. If you have 50 journalists who spend _hours_ every day typing at 160WPM, cheap rubber dome boards will need to be replaced once or twice a year at the very least to keep the journalists' typing speed up. But a mechanical keyboard will still last for ages under that kind of use, and the cost will even out to be cheaper than a rubber dome.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v3rt3x.cub3d* 
As an addition: This still doesn't clarify why these mechanical keyboard makers wouldn't just also make a mechanical keyboard that looks sleek and would get the attention of both people who want a quality keyboard and also something that looks nice? Or am I missing something, are these two groups mutually exclusive?

Well, looking good is all about taste. But here you go, how about this:










But the reason I don't have that one listed in the OP is because it has key transposition problems. If you type faster than 120WPM, even in short bursts, it will switch letters around on you.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v3rt3x.cub3d* 
I never said that mechanical keyboards were less durable than you made them out to be, I wouldn't doubt it either. However the tone of your post seems to be a little elitist and hostile.

Sorry, I was in a rush so I just tried to make the points really quickly







. These are also questions I've been asked a gazillion times so my first responses are pretty much pre-programmed lol.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v3rt3x.cub3d* 
I also don't remember asking if PS/2 was better or not, that was quite clear, I was asking why it would be justified to get PS/2 when some mobos were already phasing it out (though I still see a single PS/2 port on some boards like the Rampage II and the Classified I'm assuming for mechanical keyboard enthusiasts).

This is a nice thing to know, however doesn't this completely nullify the so well referenced complete n-rollover when using USB?

It's the other way around. The complete n-key rollover is with PS/2 only. USB is limited to 6 keys + 4 modifiers (between the two shifts, alts, and ctrls, as they are technically separate keys with different scancodes).

Is it justified to stick to PS/2? IMO yes, simply because it's better in every way. But it's not like you have to make much of a choice when buying a keyboard, as like I said, all the new keyboards are compatible with both. And even if you got an old keyboard that's PS/2 only, they have plenty of PS/2 -> USB converters you can use (some better than others, I'll get you a list if you're interested).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v3rt3x.cub3d* 
I cannot disagree with this point, as the last mechanical keyboard I would have possibly used would have been 15+ years ago. I remember it being extremely loud and it sounded like a machine gun when my father was programming.

lol, it was probably a Model M or something with White Alps. The two loudest switches. But they do have mechanical boards that make absolutely no noise except if you bottom out.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v3rt3x.cub3d* 
I don't think I would change my typing style though I believe I do understand what you are talking about by not bottoming out the keys, I notice very infrequently sometimes even though I have pressed a key on my G15 it doesn't register, this only happens on a few keys farthest from my typing location, I am probably not giving them enough force to register.

Well why don't you try out one or two old $10-$20 boards? Yeah they're ugly and all, but at least you can get an idea of what the difference is between a mechanical and rubber dome. If you happen to pick a board with a switch that you really like then great, we can get you a new one with that same switch (in most cases at least). And if you find that you just generally like the difference between it and your logitech but there are a few aspects you'd like to change (pitch of the sound, no sound at all, preciseness of the tactile bump, softer tactile bump, etc) then we can still find you a switch that you'll like. And if you don't like it at all, then oh well it's just $10.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tylerand* 
Yes, but i don't want to spend $100 on a keyboard i'm going to hate. I'm seriously considering these keyboards considering how much i've been hearing about them, but if i'm going to receive it and absolutely hate it... i'll be angry. At myself that is.

read above


----------



## v3rt3x.cub3d

All very good points, but it also shows me that a mechanical keyboard would be an unnecessary expenditure for me. I think I'll stick to my regular keyboard or perhaps a merc stealth









Oh and just to clear up one of my sentences:

"nullify the so well referenced complete n-rollover when using USB?"

I believe that my sentence does convey that n-rollover is nullified when using USB, perhaps I could have moved nullify to after n-rollover to make it a little clearer, grammar ftl.


----------



## Foooman

I've been using a cheap keyboard for the last 5 years. By now, the entire bottom left corner has completely faded away. Pushing the shift, control, or alt key is completely random in that corner. After a long debate as to whether I'd get a fancy Logitech with the little screen and illuminated keys, or a mechanical keyboard that won't break on me. I decided to go with the latter. I don't need illuminated keys, they'd probably just bother me when I'm asleep. I don't need media keys or a little screen to watch movies on while I play games that's just overkill.

Placed a pre-order for a 104-key Filco with Cherry MX Blue switches. Now the waiting begins.

+REP for the guide. I swear I've read it around 4 times through while debating between a Logitech and a mechanical keyboard.


----------



## [Teh Root]

Keytronic makes Mechanical as well. I found one for $5 from a friend. I have to clean it tomorrow.


----------



## MijnWraak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Foooman* 
I've been using a cheap keyboard for the last 5 years. By now, the entire bottom left corner has completely faded away. Pushing the shift, control, or alt key is completely random in that corner. After a long debate as to whether I'd get a fancy Logitech with the little screen and illuminated keys, or a mechanical keyboard that won't break on me. I decided to go with the latter. I don't need illuminated keys, they'd probably just bother me when I'm asleep. I don't need media keys or a little screen to watch movies on while I play games that's just overkill.

Placed a pre-order for a 104-key Filco with Cherry MX Blue switches. Now the waiting begins.

+REP for the guide. I swear I've read it around 4 times through while debating between a Logitech and a mechanical keyboard.

Grats. You'll love it and it'll last longer than a pet fish will







(that's coming from experience lol)


----------



## PhillyOverclocker

This has always been a great thread. I have recommended it to a few techie-types I know.

I know it sounds weird, but does anybody else find the video of the guy demonstrating the keyboard sounds to be very relaxing?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v3rt3x.cub3d* 
All very good points, but it also shows me that a mechanical keyboard would be an unnecessary expenditure for me. I think I'll stick to my regular keyboard or perhaps a merc stealth









Oh and just to clear up one of my sentences:

"nullify the so well referenced complete n-rollover when using USB?"

I believe that my sentence does convey that n-rollover is nullified when using USB, perhaps I could have moved nullify to after n-rollover to make it a little clearer, grammar ftl.

lol yeah that part was confusing me...

But for real though, any reason not to give a $10 keyboard a try? It's not a lot of money, and worst case scenario you can always sell it for the same price to someone who wants to try one out too.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Foooman* 
I've been using a cheap keyboard for the last 5 years. By now, the entire bottom left corner has completely faded away. Pushing the shift, control, or alt key is completely random in that corner. After a long debate as to whether I'd get a fancy Logitech with the little screen and illuminated keys, or a mechanical keyboard that won't break on me. I decided to go with the latter. I don't need illuminated keys, they'd probably just bother me when I'm asleep. I don't need media keys or a little screen to watch movies on while I play games that's just overkill.

Placed a pre-order for a 104-key Filco with Cherry MX Blue switches. Now the waiting begins.

+REP for the guide. I swear I've read it around 4 times through while debating between a Logitech and a mechanical keyboard.

I have one for sale!!!!!





































Oh well, you'll enjoy it, I'm sure of it









Quote:


Originally Posted by *[Teh Root]* 
Keytronic makes Mechanical as well. I found one for $5 from a friend. I have to clean it tomorrow.

Yes they do....pics!!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PhillyOverclocker* 
This has always been a great thread. I have recommended it to a few techie-types I know.

I know it sounds weird, but does anybody else find the video of the guy demonstrating the keyboard sounds to be very relaxing?











Not me, lol. But I'm so used to the sound of clicky boards now that it's just normal background noise for me.


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v3rt3x.cub3d* 
Why are these keyboards (for the most part) so ugly? They look like something off of my old 486. This is not what the majority of people want clearly since keyboards are mostly designed today with sleek exteriors and exotic designs.

Also, why would people spend over 100 dollars on a potentially PS/2 only keyboard when motherboard manufacturers seem to want to get rid of PS/2 ports?

I understand that a strong spring would be helpful to prevent misclicked keys for some who like to rest the weight of their hand on the keyboard (I have this issue with my mouse buttons on cheap mice!) but I don't understand how the tactile feedback would be helpful for people. I always have pressed my keys all the way down while typing, and I'm pretty certain the keyboards on my old computers (133Mhz and 233Mhz lol) were mechanical. Granted I have not used one in a very long time so it could just be me forgetting what it was like.

I'm not trying to bash your guide I just want some answers to certain things that weren't quite clarified with your guide.

There's a difference between ugly and plain. The keyboards in this guide are not ugly, they're just plain. Which is honestly the way I want it. Which keyboard is going to get stolen at a LAN party, the Logitech with the screen on it, or the boring looking Filco?







(assuming the thief doesn't know the Filco name...)

Also, my Filco is USB. I use a USB > PS/2 adapter because, as stated before, PS/2 is better.


----------



## lmnop

I don't think mechanical keyboards look ugly or plain compared to what they used to look like. they look sexy. Logitech G15 looks like it was manufactured by Fisher Price.

here is some sexy three some action.










Topre is so sexy it hurts.

PS/2 port will never be obsolete. Asus uses these now but they still continue to use a separate PS/2 Keyboard and Mouse port.


----------



## nullface

Any small (88 Key) good ones out there with a euro layout?


----------



## VCheeZ

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nullface* 
Any small (88 Key) good ones out there with a euro layout?

Try looking into the Cherry G84-4100.

I scored pretty good at the local Salvation Army today. Picked up an "Mtek K104" with an old AT connector. Got it home and found out it had Blue Alps switches...twice as soft as my Black Alps!


----------



## grantb5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
It's the other way around. The complete n-key rollover is with PS/2 only. USB is limited to 6 keys + 4 modifiers (between the two shifts, alts, and ctrls, as they are technically separate keys with different scancodes).

I'm curious about this. So the standard USB example from USB.org (and Microsoft) for a keyboard report descriptor uses 6 key bytes. Is every manufacturer too lazy to use something bigger? Have no manufacturers tried to increase the report width? I see no reason why the OS wouldn't support 8 or 10 keys or whatever. Assuming the firmware supported more, and you'd think some do since they also operate in PS/2 mode, the report width is a simple fix.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grantb5* 
I'm curious about this. So the standard USB example from USB.org (and Microsoft) for a keyboard report descriptor uses 6 key bytes. Is every manufacturer too lazy to use something bigger? Have no manufacturers tried to increase the report width? I see no reason why the OS wouldn't support 8 or 10 keys or whatever. Assuming the firmware supported more, and you'd think some do since they also operate in PS/2 mode, the report width is a simple fix.

I think there is a couple keyboards with some kind of integrated memory that record n-key rollover so you can go above USB spec. I can't remember which keyboards I think one of them is the SteelSeries 7G or maybe I am thinking of another keyboard.

maybe Manyak can shed some light.


----------



## grantb5

That's a goofy solution to the problem. There must be some keyboards that have "wider" data pipes. Or not.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I think there is a couple keyboards with some kind of integrated memory that record n-key rollover so you can go above USB spec. I can't remember which keyboards I think one of them is the SteelSeries 7G or maybe I am thinking of another keyboard.

maybe Manyak can shed some light.

The only one I'm 100% sure of is the iRocks KR=6230, and I think the ABS M1 too.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grantb5* 
That's a goofy solution to the problem. There must be some keyboards that have "wider" data pipes. Or not.

Over USB? Nope. It's in the USB spec. It _is_ possible to do, but then it would require a special controller and special drivers. The computer would no longer see it as a HID ether, so you wouldn't be able to use it in BIOS and stuff. That's why noone does it.


----------



## grantb5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
The only one I'm 100% sure of is the iRocks KR=6230, and I think the ABS M1 too.

Over USB? Nope. It's in the USB spec. It _is_ possible to do, but then it would require a special controller and special drivers. The computer would no longer see it as a HID ether, so you wouldn't be able to use it in BIOS and stuff. That's why noone does it.

See that's where we disagree. The spec has an example that shows a report for a 6 byte wide pipe (not including modifiers). But like so many of the other usb devices, it's just an example. The report could be wider if the firmware developer wanted it wider (the only probable exception would be the boot protocol). The early USB devices had endpoints that were quite small, but now it would be nothing to have a 64 byte endpoint. Sticking to the same report, you could have 62 key rollover.







And I think Windows would probably support it.

EDIT: And I think someone's done it:
http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html
"breaks through the USB simultaneously-pressed-switch limit of 6 switches"


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grantb5* 
See that's where we disagree. The spec has an example that shows a report for a 6 byte wide pipe (not including modifiers). But like so many of the other usb devices, it's just an example. The report could be wider if the firmware developer wanted it wider (the only probable exception would be the boot protocol). The early USB devices had endpoints that were quite small, but now it would be nothing to have a 64 byte endpoint. Sticking to the same report, you could have 62 key rollover.







And I think Windows would probably support it.

EDIT: And I think someone's done it:
http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html
"breaks through the USB simultaneously-pressed-switch limit of 6 switches"

Yeah, that breaks through USB's limit because it's PS/2. lol









And like I said, it _is_ possible to do it, noone's denying it. It just won't be within the official spec, and therefore you can't guarantee compatibility outside of whatever OS the drivers are written for.


----------



## nullface

As i dont think all Model M's are equally good, i need your help









I am being offered 2 Model M's, this is the info the seller has given me.

Registreret dato: 02-11-2009

1 - 1993-09-13 - 55-1150077L EC528693 -
Print 06A Build 07A Removable "Spiral" cable Made in UK

2 - 1996-03-25 - 55-1502207F EC528820Y -
Print 04B Build 14B Straight none-removable cable Made in UK

Any good ones?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nullface* 
As i dont think all Model M's are equally good, i need your help









I am being offered 2 Model M's, this is the info the seller has given me.

Registreret dato: 02-11-2009

1 - 1993-09-13 - 55-1150077L EC528693 -
Print 06A Build 07A Removable "Spiral" cable Made in UK

2 - 1996-03-25 - 55-1502207F EC528820Y -
Print 04B Build 14B Straight none-removable cable Made in UK

Any good ones?

Well, if you're looking for the _good_ ones, you want one of the following model numbers:

1390120 - 86/87
1390131 - 86/87
1391401 - 84-92

Then there are the industrial Model Ms (gray casing) and Model M Minis (no numberpad).


----------



## CorporalAris

Is it possible to dye black keyboards? I keep seeing cool colored ones...


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CorporalAris* 
Is it possible to dye black keyboards? I keep seeing cool colored ones...

Nope.


----------



## CorporalAris

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Nope.

Awwww....

Maybe I'll grab a set of white keys.

edit;

where could i get keys that fit the ABS M1?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CorporalAris* 
where could i get keys that fit the ABS M1?

Well, for the letter keys, any ALPS keyboard. For the longer keys, I'm not sure. I think I've heard something about the Filco Zero keys fitting the ABS M1, but those are already black.


----------



## iandh

Woot! My Filco tenkeyless with browns is in the mail.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iandh* 
Woot! My Filco tenkeyless with browns is in the mail.









Sweet


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
The only one I'm 100% sure of is the iRocks KR=6230, and I think the ABS M1 too.

let me ask you something why do you think i-Rocks doesn't get enough credit. would you pick a i-Rocks 6230 over a Filco TenKeyLess?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CorporalAris* 
Awwww....

Maybe I'll grab a set of white keys.

edit;

where could i get keys that fit the ABS M1?

I know you want keycaps but this is all I could find. you may be interested in this mod later and you might want to ask the keycap question here.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
let me ask you something why do you think i-Rocks doesn't get enough credit. would you pick a i-Rocks 6230 over a Filco TenKeyLess?

iRocks definitely doesn't get enough credit. For me, if I wanted Cherry Browns, yes I'd take that iRocks over a Filco tenkeyless. But that's mostly because I've learned that I can't live without the numberpad







. Then again, the /? key is way off where it's supposed to be, which can get annoying if it's not the only keyboard you use.

I don't know if you saw it, but I wrote a review on it for the distributor not too long ago. See here. At the end of the day, I'd say that the layout difference between it and the Filco Tenkeyless is the only major difference. The lettering on the iRocks fades pretty quickly, but the keys on the Filco end up smooth pretty quickly. The Filco is also a bit heavier so it feels a bit better built, but the iRocks isn't exactly _bad_ either.

So if you can live with the layout then yeah it's a great keyboard to pick up.


----------



## iandh

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


iRocks definitely doesn't get enough credit. For me, if I wanted Cherry Browns, yes I'd take that iRocks over a Filco tenkeyless. But that's mostly because I've learned that I can't live without the numberpad







. Then again, the /? key is way off where it's supposed to be, which can get annoying if it's not the only keyboard you use.

I don't know if you saw it, but I wrote a review on it for the distributor not too long ago. See here. At the end of the day, I'd say that the layout difference between it and the Filco Tenkeyless is the only major difference. The lettering on the iRocks fades pretty quickly, but the keys on the Filco end up smooth pretty quickly. The Filco is also a bit heavier so it feels a bit better built, but the iRocks isn't exactly _bad_ either.

So if you can live with the layout then yeah it's a great keyboard to pick up.


The ? key is the reason I went with the Filco. I type on standard keyboards all day at work so I could see it definitely becoming an annoyance. I also have no use at all for the tenkeys.


----------



## lmnop

$99 USD, USB N-KKRO Feature, HUB, Cherry MX Browns. pretty good deal to me. I see what you mean by the /? key.

I don't think it would bother me. would be nice if they made a full size model with a standard enter key so they could put the |\\ and /? in normal positions. I like the Media Key setup on the Das Model S, more Mechanical Keyboards should be like that. maybe add a headphone/microphone audio connector on the HUB.


----------



## xHassassin

Hmm, my model M has served me well for the past few months, but the lack of nkro is killing me. Any advice for a sub 100 keyboard w/ full NKRO? I'm looking at the MX Blue Filcos... Know anywhere I could get them for less than 100 shipped?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xHassassin* 
Hmm, my model M has served me well for the past few months, but the lack of nkro is killing me. Any advice for a sub 100 keyboard w/ full NKRO? I'm looking at the MX Blue Filcos... Know anywhere I could get them for less than 100 shipped?

on Geekhack

Manyak is selling a Filco TenKeyLess with Cherry MX Blue for $103 USD there is also a Filco TenKeyLess with Cherry MX Brown for $90 USD and a Filco TenKeyLess with Cherry MX Blue for $110 USD.


----------



## xHassassin

Does anyone sell them with the number pad? I kind of like big keyboards.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xHassassin*


Does anyone sell them with the number pad? I kind of like big keyboards.










sorry I don't think you will find a new Filco 104 under a $100.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xHassassin* 
Hmm, my model M has served me well for the past few months, but the lack of nkro is killing me. Any advice for a sub 100 keyboard w/ full NKRO? I'm looking at the MX Blue Filcos... Know anywhere I could get them for less than 100 shipped?

Yeah, see my sig


----------



## iandh

I must say, I really, really, REALLY love typing on my new Filco with browns. It was woth every bit of the $141 I had to pay including tax and shipping from elitekeyboards. No more fatigue.

It's also fairly nice for gaming, but I've only logged a few minutes.

Now all I have to do is find a new mouse that matches the quality of this keyboard, and also fits my hand. That may be a challenge.


----------



## xHassassin

Just wondering. Why did you rate the Filco Blues better than browns for both typing and gaming?


----------



## lmnop

I have never used the Cherry MX Browns but I have a Das Ultimate Professional with Cherry MX Blue which are clicky and require more force than the Browns great for typing but they are too soft and slippery for gaming. some people might like the clicky for gaming but I don't.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iandh* 
I must say, I really, really, REALLY love typing on my new Filco with browns. It was woth every bit of the $141 I had to pay including tax and shipping from elitekeyboards. No more fatigue.

It's also fairly nice for gaming, but I've only logged a few minutes.

Now all I have to do is find a new mouse that matches the quality of this keyboard, and also fits my hand. That may be a challenge.

Glad you like it









Mice, unfortunately, are a lot harder to pick out. You should probably start out by going to a best buy or whatever and trying out the mice they have on display to see which ones feel the best. Hell, I've been looking for the 'perfect' mouse for me for years now, and I still haven't found it. And believe me, I've tried plenty.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xHassassin* 
Just wondering. Why did you rate the Filco Blues better than browns for both typing and gaming?

I honestly don't know anymore, because now I find browns better than blues for gaming. At the end of the day it's really just an opinion anyway.


----------



## lmnop

when I look at switches I think of the Blues for typing, Blacks for gaming and Browns for typing and gaming kinda the jack of all trades master of none. I hope to add a Black or Brown to my collection by Christmas. i'm having a hard time choosing. I heard Filco is restocking next week or the week after.

regarding the mouse you should take a look at the SteelSeries Xai if it's in your price range. it has a great sensor and feature set. I like the sleek look it's not hardcore like Logitech or Razer it has a classic shape with similar dimensions to the Wheel Mouse Optical, non-slip surface, great center of gravity, side buttons are clicky, tactile scroll wheel, braided cloth usb cable and I have read comments from owners that have said the teflon feet are really soft and glide even better than aftermarket hyperglides.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
when I look at switches I think of the Blues for typing, Blacks for gaming and Browns for typing and gaming kinda the jack of all trades master of none. I hope to add a Black or Brown to my collection by Christmas. i'm having a hard time choosing. I heard Filco is restocking next week or the week after.

Yeah, that sounds about right. Some people do prefer the feel of Browns over Blues though, just because they're lighter (Browns = less force, not Blues). But yeah so far I haven't seen anyone who actually _enjoys_ typing on Cherry Blacks.


----------



## lmnop

oh you are right my apologies. the Blues do require more force. don't know what I was thinking <smacks her head> the first Cherry MX Black review I read was the SteelSeries 7G at DriverHeaven and the Gigabyte GK-K8000 at TweakTown and both reviewers say they been using them as their daily driver for months. when I watch the Youtube videos of the Deck Legend 105 they don't appear to be as bad as I thought they would. maybe the Cherry MX Blacks are more tolerable if you haven't tried Blue or Browns. I have 2 computers so the consequences are not as great for me if I don't like it.

PS, we are almost at 100 pages!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
oh your right my apologies. the Blues do require more force. don't know what I was thinking <smacks her head> the first Cherry MX Black review I read was the SteelSeries 7G at DriverHeaven and the Gigabyte GK-K8000 at TweakTown and both reviewers say they been using them as their daily driver for months. when I watch the Youtube videos of the Deck Legend 105 they don't appear to be as bad as I thought they would. but I have 2 computers. so the consequences arn't as great for me.

The one thing you should always check when reading reviews on mechanical boards is how much experience the reviewer has with other switches - both mechanical and rubber - and if he's seen the build quality of other solid boards. If you go to the Deck forums you'll see a crapton of people posting how much they love their Deck and it's better than anything they've ever used....except everything they've ever used is a Logitech G15 and the standard crap from OEMs. IMO that's not saying much. I don't know about the two reviews you're talking about, but just watch out









And don't get me wrong, Decks are perfectly fine keyboards. But at the end of the day most of what you get out of a review is an opinion. And with how personal keyboards are, and how much taste can vary, you need to just pick out the details for yourself and make your own decision.


----------



## lmnop

I know







the one thing I have a hard time picturing in my head is the "non tactile" part. I had a Model M when I was a kid I think I can handle Cherry MX Black.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I know







the one thing I have a hard time picturing in my head is the "non tactile" part. I had a Model M when I was a kid I think I can handle Cherry MX Black.

Well, if you're fully adjusted to your Cherry Blues, you'll probably find linear switches a bit....weird. I really don't know how else to describe it lol.

But Model Ms are actually both tactile and clicky (and IMO have the best feeling Tactile Bump anywhere, and if they could make the spring lighter it would be the perfect board).


----------



## kyle-reece

how close to this do cherry blues sound live?


----------



## iandh

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Glad you like it









Mice, unfortunately, are a lot harder to pick out. You should probably start out by going to a best buy or whatever and trying out the mice they have on display to see which ones feel the best. Hell, I've been looking for the 'perfect' mouse for me for years now, and I still haven't found it. And believe me, I've tried plenty.


Yeah I've tried just about every mouse out there. The G5 style doesn't fit my hand very well, same with most of the razer mice, they just plain hurt.

I was stuck on the MS intellimouse explorer 3.0 forever, just because of the shape. That's one of the reasons I like the Sidewinder X5, because it is shaped kinda-sorta similar to the IM3.0

I have really big hands and use palm grip so I have to find a pretty large mouse.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


regarding the mouse you should take a look at the SteelSeries Xai if it's in your price range. it has a great sensor and feature set. I like the sleek look it's not hardcore like Logitech or Razer it has a classic shape with similar dimensions to the Wheel Mouse Optical, non-slip surface, great center of gravity, side buttons are clicky, tactile scroll wheel, braided cloth usb cable and I have read comments from owners that have said the teflon feet are really soft and glide even better than aftermarket hyperglides.


I've been looking at that one, I hope I can find one in person to try out.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kyle-reece*


how close to this do cherry blues sound live?


I'd say they are maybe a tiny bit softer, and a tiny bit lower pitched. The clicks on the blues sounded a little more "gentle" to me when I tried them the other day.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kyle-reece*


how close to this do cherry blues sound live?


The very beginning where he's clicking them slowly sounds about right (but like iandh said, the video is a tiny bit harsher than live), but once he starts moving around he keeps bottoming them out and that doesn't quite sound like normal typing. Maybe when you first get it and still aren't used to them yeah, but it's not normal.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iandh*


Yeah I've tried just about every mouse out there. The G5 style doesn't fit my hand very well, same with most of the razer mice, they just plain hurt.

I was stuck on the MS intellimouse explorer 3.0 forever, just because of the shape. That's one of the reasons I like the Sidewinder X5, because it is shaped kinda-sorta similar to the IM3.0

I have really big hands and use palm grip so I have to find a pretty large mouse.


Have you tried the Ikari? It's the most comfortable mouse I've ever tried for a palm grip (and I have big hands too). The only quirk is that you should have only two fingers up top, not three like I like to use.

But yeah, my problem is that I like to use a fingertip grip so I need a mouse that's very short in the back and not too high (so it doesn't hit my hand when I pull it down with my fingers), but very wide so that my pinky doesn't hurt from holding it too long. Basically, if you put your hand on the home row, the distance between your pinky and thumb right there is how wide I need it.


----------



## rfjunkie

Quick question for someone... I've been looking for a decent 10 key pad to go with my tenkeyless Filco keyboards. I'm left handed and like having it on the left side of the keyboard... I don't want to get one of the Filco ones because it has that double zero key on it. BUT I don't want to pay anymore than I would have to for the Filco one. It doesn't really matter what switches it has in it since my Filco keyboard is one of the B-stock ones. and the switches are kinda heavy on it anyway.

I think that about covers it for now...

Thanks RFJ.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rfjunkie* 
Quick question for someone... I've been looking for a decent 10 key pad to go with my tenkeyless Filco keyboards. I'm left handed and like having it on the left side of the keyboard... I don't want to get one of the Filco ones because it has that double zero key on it. BUT I don't want to pay anymore than I would have to for the Filco one. It doesn't really matter what switches it has in it since my Filco keyboard is one of the B-stock ones. and the switches are kinda heavy on it anyway.

I think that about covers it for now...

Thanks RFJ.

Here.


----------



## rfjunkie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Here.

Thanks.... Figured you would be the first one to respond... I will order one.

Right now I am using a cheap inland one from micro center... it has the rubber dome switches and really sucks to use.... Even though I don't use the 10 key that much.

Edit----> ORDERED!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rfjunkie* 
Thanks.... Figured you would be the first one to respond... I will order one.

Right now I am using a cheap inland one from micro center... it has the rubber dome switches and really sucks to use.... Even though I don't use the 10 key that much.

np









I could have sworn I saw a mechanical left handed one somewhere (0 on the right, +/Enter on the left) but I couldn't find it.


----------



## KipH

How does Kinesis-Ergonomic-Keyboard-Freestyle-International

And did you think about my arthritis question?


----------



## rfjunkie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
np









I could have sworn I saw a mechanical left handed one somewhere (0 on the right, +/Enter on the left) but I couldn't find it.

I think I saw the same thing that your thinking about on the Cherry web site a couple months ago.... I like the face that the tenkeyless takes up less real estate on my desk... I don't have all that much room to begin with. Its kinda cramped quarters in here with all the computers and such... I think I'm addicted to building and buying stuff.

I just picked up an new Nikon camera yesterday evening... the coolpix L100.. seems pretty decent so far. (Starting to go off topic...)

Thanks again on the link. I think I looked at those 10 keys before and didn't know if they would be any good.... since you recommended it, I think I will like it... I see your post on this thread a lot.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
How does Kinesis-Ergonomic-Keyboard-Freestyle-International

And did you think about my arthritis question?

I had completely missed your question, sorry about that.

But that's a pretty good board. There are several other Kinesis models that would work too, and some really ugly Maltron boards. There's also the recently discontinued Kinesis Evolution, which you'd have to scour ebay and geekhack to get.

Out of those I guess have her pick the one she thinks looks the most comfortable.


----------



## rfjunkie

I found the left handed mechanical keyboard...

Here

The enter key is to big and the backspace is too small... I like a smaller enter key and lager backspace...


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rfjunkie* 
I found the left handed mechanical keyboard...

Here

The enter key is to big and the backspace is too small... I like a smaller enter key and lager backspace...

Yeah I don't like that either. But I was just talking about the number pad being flipped around, so you could use your thumb on the 0 and pinky on the +/Enter like right handed people do.


----------



## iandh

So the backspace key on my Filco is starting to squeak and screech and it's only a couple days old. The key switch feels normal, and only squeaks when I hit the key off center. It's a bit of a pain having to try and hit it dead center on every mistake. IMO a $140 keyboard shoudn't squeak.

Suggestions?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iandh*


So the backspace key on my Filco is starting to squeak and screech and it's only a couple days old. The key switch feels normal, and only squeaks when I hit the key off center. It's a bit of a pain having to try and hit it dead center on every mistake. IMO a $140 keyboard shoudn't squeak.

Suggestions?


this happens on Filco. greasing it with wd 40 or silicone grease will fix the problem.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iandh*


So the backspace key on my Filco is starting to squeak and screech and it's only a couple days old. The key switch feels normal, and only squeaks when I hit the key off center. It's a bit of a pain having to try and hit it dead center on every mistake. IMO a $140 keyboard shoudn't squeak.

Suggestions?


No it definitely shouldn't. Try mashing the switch repeatedly for a minute or so, that might fix it.

If it doesn't then call up elitekeyboards and see what they say. Worst case you can always replace the switch, it only costs a few cents to get one.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


this happens on Filco. greasing it with wd 40 or silicone grease will fix the problem.


Yeah that'll work, except it'll also change the feel. Only very slightly, but still. Like iandh said, when you paid $140 for a board it better be perfect.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
No it definitely shouldn't. Try mashing the switch repeatedly for a minute or so, that might fix it.

If it doesn't then call up elitekeyboards and see what they say. Worst case you can always replace the switch, it only costs a few cents to get one.

Yeah that'll work, except it'll also change the feel. Only very slightly, but still. Like iandh said, when you paid $140 for a board it better be perfect.

the spacebar used to squeak on stock Filco until Filco started greasing it. squeaks happen all the time on mechanical keyboards everybody on geekhack suggests greasing.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the spacebar used to squeak on stock Filco until Filco started greasing it. squeaks happen all the time on mechanical keyboards everybody on geekhack suggests greasing.


Yeah I know, especially for sound dampening on Model Ms. I just don't really like it because it mushes up the switches sometimes.

Besides, a bottle of WD40 is still more expensive than just one cherry switch.


----------



## lmnop

nice thing about WD 40 is it doesn't leave any residue. I use it for other things around my house. like my car and mouse. it's handy to have around. any lubricant should work hell somebody suggested butter on geekhack until someone mentioned they might need the oxy clean mechanical keyboard stench remover!

PS, over 1000 posts this thread should be stickied.


----------



## xHassassin

Hmm, I've found some Filco Majestouch Brown/Blues appearing on the Fleabay for 60~80...

Only I've just realized that I spent around 200 bucks on Black Friday, so this probably isn't the best time to make another purchase.


----------



## Afrodisiac

I think I have found a solution to my gaming woes. Instead of getting a mechanical keyboard good for gaming (which is a waste IMO), I'll get one that's good for typing, a better investment, and then just get a gaming keypad thingamajiggy.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Afrodisiac*


I think I have found a solution to my gaming woes. Instead of getting a mechanical keyboard good for gaming (which is a waste IMO), I'll get one that's good for typing, a better investment, and then just get a gaming keypad thingamajiggy.



Funny, mechanical keyboards are usually considered better for typing.


----------



## MijnWraak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


Funny, mechanical keyboards are usually considered better for typing.


I think he means getting a good typing mechanical (cherry mx blue, for example) instead of getting a cherry black linear. then getting a linear keypad/gaming thing for gaming alone


----------



## Ikrin

Are there any relatively inexpensive mechanical keyboards? Maybe $60/preferably less going around (it can be used but in good condition, from eBay, Craigslist, OCN)? I want to get one to use when gaming on my laptop, so that I don't wear out the keys that I need for more general use. I have already tried looking around, but with little luck. I read that someone found some for $40 on Craigslist, but I have not been able to locate those.


----------



## Afrodisiac

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MijnWraak*


I think he means getting a good typing mechanical (cherry mx blue, for example) instead of getting a cherry black linear. then getting a linear keypad/gaming thing for gaming alone


Yeah, that is what I meant. Manyak mentions that the best gaming mechanical board is not so amazing for typing/general usage, so I'll just get a gamepad for gaming.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ikrin* 
Are there any relatively inexpensive mechanical keyboards? Maybe $60/preferably less going around (it can be used but in good condition, from eBay, Craigslist, OCN)? I want to get one to use when gaming on my laptop, so that I don't wear out the keys that I need for more general use. I have already tried looking around, but with little luck. I read that someone found some for $40 on Craigslist, but I have not been able to locate those.

ABS M1

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Afrodisiac* 
Yeah, that is what I meant. Manyak mentions that the best gaming mechanical board is not so amazing for typing/general usage, so I'll just get a gamepad for gaming.

If you don't mind a recommendation, you should try and avoid the new N52TE (but the old N52 is awesome if you can find it). I went through _four_ of them before just returning it, each one of them had a different key that didn't like to work well (needed a crapton of force to get it to actuate). Worst QC I've ever seen. It's been almost a year since I tried so maybe they're better now, but if your mind isn't set on it already maybe just get something else


----------



## Afrodisiac

I was thinking more the G13 but I had no clue it was $80...


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Afrodisiac*


I was thinking more the G13 but I had no clue it was $80...


Yeah they're all overpriced IMO. They do make gaming a bit more comfortable (at least the N52 does, never tried the G13), but they're still nothing more than a keypad with a palmrest.


----------



## Ikrin

I think this is a good faq.

http://www.ergocanada.com/ergo/keybo...yswitches.html


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ikrin* 
I think this is a good faq.

http://www.ergocanada.com/ergo/keybo...yswitches.html

Not all of that FAQ is accurate. For example:

Quote:

Subjectively harder touch due to tactile click which improves typing accuracy and speed (does not apply on light tactile keyswitches)
Light tactile switches _do_ improve typing accuracy and speed. The best switch type to use is the one that works best for _you_, and some people will type faster on lighter switches than they will on stiffer ones.


----------



## Afrodisiac

Maybe I should just get the Razer Naga (since I'm only interested in a gamepad for RPG purposes), and a mechanical keyboard for typing.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Afrodisiac* 
Maybe I should just get the Razer Naga (since I'm only interested in a gamepad for RPG purposes), and a mechanical keyboard for typing.

You want something _really_ nice for RPGs? Check out Xkeys. Here's an example WoW layout on the Pro version:


----------



## Ikrin

Did you even look at the prices? o.0


----------



## Derp

If mechanical keyboards are so good then why wont a large company like logitech or microsoft or even razer release an updated mechanical keyboard with hotkeys/backlighting/media keys? Would production costs on a mechanical G19 just be too damn high to be reasonable?

I was interested in buying a mechanical keyboard to try out but none seem to have the simplest media controls that i enjoy using on cheap $15 membrane keyboards.


----------



## razor_blade

So, quick question here: you list the blue switches as being a 9 at gaming. I have a decent offer up to get one, but I really want to make sure I am not going to regret getting a blue instead of a brown. I have a black on another machine, and it is really tiring to type on. Others have told me that a blue switch sucks for gaming, compared to brown. Thoughts?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Auld* 
If mechanical keyboards are so good then why wont a large company like logitech or microsoft or even razer release an updated mechanical keyboard with hotkeys/backlighting/media keys? Would production costs on a mechanical G19 just be too damn high to be reasonable?

I was interested in buying a mechanical keyboard to try out but none seem to have the simplest media controls that i enjoy using on cheap $15 membrane keyboards.

Simple: Because mechanical keyboards will cut into their profits. Take the G15 for example. It has averaged, over it's lifespan, about $70 at retail. And it costs around $5 to make. Using mechanical switches will increase the production cost to around $40 per keyboard. And if they increase the price any more they won't sell enough units to compensate for the difference in cost. But if you really think the name makes a difference, there's always Steelseries, ABS, IBM, and Gigabyte.

Anyway, you can program in your own media keys with Autohotkey. I like to use Ctrl+Fkeys, some other people like to use the numberpad, but you can use whatever keys or combination of keys that you want.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *razor_blade* 
So, quick question here: you list the blue switches as being a 9 at gaming. I have a decent offer up to get one, but I really want to make sure I am not going to regret getting a blue instead of a brown. I have a black on another machine, and it is really tiring to type on. Others have told me that a blue switch sucks for gaming, compared to brown. Thoughts?

Will you _regret_ getting Blues instead of Browns? I doubt it, unless the only thing you play is UT (with double-taps). But if you want lighter switches to make it less tiring, get the Browns.


----------



## razor_blade

I am not really worried about getting tired, but I do play UT every now and then. I will give the Blues a try, I think my wife is going to kill me...


----------



## Derp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Simple: Because mechanical keyboards will cut into their profits. Take the G15 for example. It has averaged, over it's lifespan, about $70 at retail. And it costs around $5 to make. Using mechanical switches will increase the production cost to around $40 per keyboard. And if they increase the price any more they won't sell enough units to compensate for the difference in cost. But if you really think the name makes a difference, there's always Steelseries, ABS, IBM, and Gigabyte.

Anyway, you can program in your own media keys with Autohotkey. I like to use Ctrl+Fkeys, some other people like to use the numberpad, but you can use whatever keys or combination of keys that you want.

Cool program, kind of annoying but it definitely works.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Auld* 
Cool program, kind of annoying but it definitely works.

it's not annoying it has a learning curve. it has it's own scripting language. you can create more complex macros than Logitech and Razer drivers. if you wanted to you can have over a 100 macros for any application.

Logitech and Razer have the money, market and influence to manufacture a mechanical keyboard but majority of their products have a 50-75% profit margin and a mechanical keyboard would bring up the build cost and to have that kind of profit margin they would have to set the MSRP high probably above $200. I don't think they would have a market for it.

I think if they had a Filco on display at a retail store most gamers would never turn back to rubber dome keyboards except maybe a minority who cannot tolerate the noise. a mechanical keyboard's speed, response, rollover and build quality is what should make a "gaming keyboard" a gaming keyboard not led and paint.


----------



## Manyak

Oh and one other reason I forgot to mention: mechanical boards last for decades. Ok, lets say that starting tomorrow morning all Logitech gaming keyboards become mechanical, and 2 million units are sold within the first year. That's two million people who won't buy another keyboard for the next 20 years (or until they have a big accident). So not only will there be less of a profit margin per unit, but the demand will decrease significantly in the long run. This is exactly what happened with IBM and their Model M, which is why there are BNIB ones on ebay very frequently.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I think if they had a Filco on display at a retail store most gamers would never turn back to rubber dome keyboards except maybe a minority who cannot tolerate the noise. a mechanical keyboard's speed, response, rollover and build quality is what should make a "gaming keyboard" a gaming keyboard not led and paint.

Truer words could not have been spoken.

You know what though, mechanical keyboard awareness (for lack of a better word) has increased _significantly_ since last year. Hell, I remember when I first put up the guide there was an argument in _every_ "I want a keyboard" thread between the three or so people who knew what a mechanical keyboard was, and everyone else who thought that Logitech/Razer was the only way to go. And mechanical boards were "useless junk from 20 years ago". Now most of the people giving keyboard advice properly understand what the benefits and drawbacks are, and most that are _asking_ for the advice do end up with a mechanical one

Anyway, my point is that the demand for them is definitely increasing. I'm just hoping that one day it'll be high enough to take enough of a chunk out of Logitech's/Razer's sales for them to change their mind and make one.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Anyway, my point is that the demand for them is definitely increasing. I'm just hoping that one day it'll be high enough to take enough of a chunk out of Logitech's/Razer's sales for them to change their mind and make one.

I just wish there were as many switch choices as there used to be in the golden age of mechanical keyboards. Now it's about four major types: ALPS-clones, Cherry, Topre or Buckling Spring. There used to be switches from NMB, NEC, SMK, and others.


----------



## Ikrin

Which ones were the preferred of those? Are the IBM Model keyboards still viable?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ikrin* 
Which ones were the preferred of those? Are the IBM Model keyboards still viable?

Yes, the buckling spring IBM keyboards are still very nice, albeit rather heavy switches.

What's preferred? That's a personal question.


----------



## Ikrin

Could you recommend any other budget mechanical keyboards besides the ABS M1?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


Could you recommend any other budget mechanical keyboards besides the ABS M1?


iOne Scorpius M10 - Uses blue Cherry MX switches. I haven't had a bit of trouble with mine, but there have been reports of soldering issues, and seems to be a resolved issue judging from recent reviews.

http://www.amazon.com/Ione-Scorpius-.../dp/B000UC1W3C

If you like the Model M, Unicomp makes the equivalent of new ones for $69
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/keyboards.html

There are also various keyboards that you can buy used on ebay, but they usually aren't a specific model to refer to, so if you find one, make sure to check if it is actually mechanical.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Where would I go to try out a mechanical keyboard? As I think has been said, it's hard to find them on display in retail stores.

I've been using this for three or four years:








It works ok. Seems to have held up well, it's PS/2 and has at least partial NKRO (while gaming I seem to be able to use A, W, R, shift, and space all at once, which is the most keys I use at once--strafe left, forward, reload, run, and jump). It works. But I'd like to see how a mechanical keyboard feels in comparison. I don't think I could justify shelling out for a Filco, at least not right now, but maybe one in the $40 range...


----------



## Derp

I see you said the ABS M1 has a 6 key rollover. Is there a specific way to test this? My $10 logitech classic 200 seems to be able to press sdfjkl just fine over and over but if i try a smaller asdfg it wont work but works with asdf.... kind of confusing. EDIT: qasdew works too.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Where would I go to try out a mechanical keyboard? As I think has been said, it's hard to find them on display in retail stores.

I've been using this for three or four years:








It works ok. Seems to have held up well, it's PS/2 and has at least partial NKRO (while gaming I seem to be able to use A, W, R, shift, and space all at once, which is the most keys I use at once--strafe left, forward, reload, run, and jump). It works. But I'd like to see how a mechanical keyboard feels in comparison. I don't think I could justify shelling out for a Filco, at least not right now, but maybe one in the $40 range...


There's no such thing as "partial NKRO". I get what you're saying, but _every_ keyboard has at least a few keys that can be hit at the same time. The rollover is defined as the _fewest_ number of keys that can be pressed at once. So your keyboard might be 4-key rollover (if you can _always_ press at least 4 keys), maybe more, maybe less.

Anyway, if you want a super cheap mechanical board look on ebay. At the end of the OP there's a list of keyboards, old and new, that you can try (most of them really cheap). Maybe go for a Dell AT101W (original black alps), MX 11800 (Cherry MX Browns), or IBM Model M.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Auld*


I see you said the ABS M1 has a 6 key rollover. Is there a specific way to test this? My $10 logitech classic 200 seems to be able to press sdfjkl just fine over and over but if i try a smaller asdfg it wont work but works with asdf.... kind of confusing.


Yeah it's always like that when a keyboard isn't NKRO. NKRO means that there are diodes put before each and every key in the matrix (think of them as one-way valves for electricity). If a keyboard doesn't have diodes then the rollover depends on the keys' positions in the matrix.


----------



## Afrodisiac

Not to get your hopes up for a sale Manyak, but where does the keyboard you're selling lie in the gaming/typing range?

It looks like it fits right into my plan:

Gamepad + typing mechanical board.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Afrodisiac*


Not to get your hopes up for a sale Manyak, but where does the keyboard you're selling lie in the gaming/typing range?

It looks like it fits right into my plan:

Gamepad + typing mechanical board.


The only quirk it has for gaming is if you use double-taps a lot, and you don't let go of the key completely between taps. This is because the release point of the switch (as the key goes up) is higher than the actuation point as it's going down. But other than this it's great.

But for typing, IMO it's the best.


----------



## Ikrin

What is black alps? How can you tell they're mechanical keyboards?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ikrin* 
What is black alps? How can you tell they're mechanical keyboards?

It's a type of switch. Each switch type has a different feel to it. Many different boards can use the same switch, and they all have almost the exact same feel.

You can tell if it's mechanical either by the obvious way - googling the model number - or by removing a key and seeing what's underneath it.


----------



## rfjunkie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ikrin* 
Could you recommend any other budget mechanical keyboards besides the ABS M1?

I've got a couple Filco 10 Keyless B-stock keyboards a couple of months ago and I am really liking them a lot so far.... The Switches are a little heaver than the other mechanical keyboard that I tried. (Das Professional) (But they seem to be breaking in a little bit after using them a little more. Either that, or my fingers are getting stronger... lol) I like a little heavier switch myself.

B-Stock 10-keyless keyboard

Edit- Forgot to mention that the B-stock keyboards are really "clicky"! they are noisy! But that might be another reason that I like them.

Just another note... I see that Das also sells ear plugs on there site...


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Anyway, if you want a super cheap mechanical board look on ebay. At the end of the OP there's a list of keyboards, old and new, that you can try (most of them really cheap). Maybe go for a Dell AT101W (original black alps), MX 11800 (Cherry MX Browns), or IBM Model M.

If I recall correctly, the At101W has a matrix issue that doesn't allow a strafe-jump combination of keys.


----------



## Ikrin

Can someone help me figure out if the Cherry RS 14000 (G83-14000) uses mechanical switches? I doubt it'd be easy to figure out what kind, if they did, though. I think it might be membrane..


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ikrin* 
Can someone help me figure out if the Cherry RS 14000 (G83-14000) uses mechanical switches? I doubt it'd be easy to figure out what kind, if they did, though. I think it might be membrane..


G83-XXXX are rubber dome keyboards.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
There's no such thing as "partial NKRO". I get what you're saying, but _every_ keyboard has at least a few keys that can be hit at the same time. The rollover is defined as the _fewest_ number of keys that can be pressed at once. So your keyboard might be 4-key rollover (if you can _always_ press at least 4 keys), maybe more, maybe less.

Anyway, if you want a super cheap mechanical board look on ebay. At the end of the OP there's a list of keyboards, old and new, that you can try (most of them really cheap). Maybe go for a Dell AT101W (original black alps), MX 11800 (Cherry MX Browns), or IBM Model M.


Tested around a bit, and if I hold "asdfg" only two keys will register. Pretty crappy, eh?









Thinking about getting the ABS M1. Is $30+$12.50 shipping a good price for one?
EDIT: Hm, it's USB. Exactly how big a drawback will that be?


----------



## MLJS54

Typing on my new Filco tenkeyless cherry brown









Highly recommend it!


----------



## MijnWraak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Tested around a bit, and if I hold "asdfg" only two keys will register. Pretty crappy, eh?









Thinking about getting the ABS M1. Is $30+$12.50 shipping a good price for one?
EDIT: Hm, it's USB. Exactly how big a drawback will that be?

Just get a USB to PS/2 adapter. Native PS/2 isn't necessary for NKRO, but the connection to the PC being PS/2 is.


----------



## MLJS54

Btw, could anyone suggest some good hand rests for the tenkeyless Filcos?

I would preferably like something that's a slope and textured hard surface (kind of like how the steel series mechanical keyboard hand rest is)

Thanks


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MijnWraak* 
Just get a USB to PS/2 adapter. Native PS/2 isn't necessary for NKRO, but the connection to the PC being PS/2 is.

I've read that the M1 won't work through a PS/2 adapter.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MijnWraak* 
Just get a USB to PS/2 adapter. Native PS/2 isn't necessary for NKRO, but the connection to the PC being PS/2 is.

How do you figure it's not necessary? If the controller in the keyboard is programmed for USB only, how the hell is it going to output more than 6+4 keys?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I've also read that USB keyboards won't work in the BIOS, but since I've only ever had PS/2 (at least on machines that I've gone into the BIOS) I don't know if this is always the case.

The M1 for $42 looks very tempting, and I might get it in spite of the shortcomings of USB. 6+4 should be more than adequate for gaming, I think.


----------



## Derp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I've also read that USB keyboards won't work in the BIOS, but since I've only ever had PS/2 (at least on machines that I've gone into the BIOS) I don't know if this is always the case.

The M1 for $42 looks very tempting, and I might get it in spite of the shortcomings of USB. 6+4 should be more than adequate for gaming, I think.


Where is it $42? Newegg has it for $50







.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I've also read that USB keyboards won't work in the BIOS, but since I've only ever had PS/2 (at least on machines that I've gone into the BIOS) I don't know if this is always the case.

The M1 for $42 looks very tempting, and I might get it in spite of the shortcomings of USB. 6+4 should be more than adequate for gaming, I think.


That used to be the case on really old systems, like the Pentium 2. Not anymore though. And as long as Legacy USB is enabled the software can access it the same way as a PS/2 board, using int9h to read from the keyboard buffer.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Auld*


Where is it $42? Newegg has it for $50







.


$30+12.50 shipping. I'd tell you where, but there's only one, and I claim it.


----------



## lmnop

in the summer newegg had the ABS M1 on for about $29 or $39 USD for like 2 months long.

from Adam at Deck.

Quote:

If you plug your Deck Legend with the PS/2 interface into a computer while it is already on and it doesn't work you may want to try a reboot. PS/2 devices are not all that friendly to hot-plugging, but they work *99%* of the time when present at boot.

On a side note, if you ever want to switch your Deck Legend from PS/2 to USB you can do so using a phillips screwdriver and a pair of side cutters. The cable on your Deck has a USB plug on one side and a PS/2 plug on the other side. Simply flip the cable around inside the housing and clip the resistor located at W3 from what I remember (top left corner of the PC board, labeled with 'clip for use with USB').
I must be unlucky because I have had plenty of PS/2 and even a USB mouse lock up during windows install









<cue dramatic music>


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I've read that the M1 won't work through a PS/2 adapter.

true.


----------



## MijnWraak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


How do you figure it's not necessary? If the controller in the keyboard is programmed for USB only, how the hell is it going to output more than 6+4 keys?


_native_ ps/2. Like how the Filco has a USB connector at the end, not a PS/2, and uses an adapter


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MijnWraak*


_native_ ps/2. Like how the Filco has a USB connector at the end, not a PS/2, and uses an adapter










Actually, the Filco is native PS/2, as that's a passive adapter.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MijnWraak*


_native_ ps/2. Like how the Filco has a USB connector at the end, not a PS/2, and uses an adapter










Yeah the connector has nothing to do with it. The controller inside can automatically detect if it's connected to USB or PS/2 and act that way accordingly. So it's native to both.

USB-only keyboards (non-native PS/2) can still only output 6+4 keys.


----------



## honk_honk

If I use a PS/2 splitter, will I lose NKRO in my keyboards?


----------



## headcase9

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
$30+12.50 shipping. I'd tell you where, but there's only one, and I claim it.









I have had the M1 now for about 8 months and absolutely love it. I've never run into any problems with this particular board in any games I play (FPS and RTS), although on the first board they sent me the space key got stuck frequently. (Replaced quickly without any difficulty).

Good if you don't feel like spending outrageous money on a keyboard but still want something decent


----------



## Derp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
in the summer newegg had the ABS M1 on for about $29 or $39 USD for like 2 months long.

Ouch, so basically this thread got popular and newegg said:

"so i herd u like mechanical keyboards, well now they cost more"


----------



## Iceman0803

Nice writeup. I preordered a FILCO FKBN104MC/EB last week and it should be shipping today. Cant wait!


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Auld* 
Ouch, so basically this thread got popular and newegg said:

"so i herd u like mechanical keyboards, well now they cost more"

no not really I think a couple other retailers were selling them real low.you just have to know when to buy and when not to.


----------



## cepxuo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laurie* 
A blank what? I had a blank happy hacker. I also have a set of blank key caps for my IBM mini.
It looks very cool with them on.
I will find a pic.









Does anybody knows, where I can get blank keycap set for 84 IBM Model M keyboard?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cepxuo* 
Does anybody knows, where I can get blank keycap set for 84 IBM Model M keyboard?

From Unicomp
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/

Although you'll have to call them.


----------



## Foooman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Iceman0803* 
Nice writeup. I preordered a FILCO FKBN104MC/EB last week and it should be shipping today. Cant wait!
















Mine just shipped too


----------



## Iceman0803

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Foooman* 
Mine just shipped too









Did you get an email confirmation? I haven't gotten anything yet as far as that goes.


----------



## gre0481

I need to invest in something like this after I get my sig rig back up (YAR evga).

I bought a g15 (v1), and then the new orange version. I couldn't believe what they charge for macro buttons, it was no different then the dell keyboard I have lying around.

I have 3 old IBM's at home circa 83-88. Maybe I should check it out. I wonder what kind of switches Keytronic uses. I had a thing for those a few years back.

While watching the video in the OP link, My wife was ROFL laughing. have I reached a new level of nerd dom?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gre0481* 
I need to invest in something like this after I get my sig rig back up (YAR evga).

I bought a g15 (v1), and then the new orange version. I couldn't believe what they charge for macro buttons, it was no different then the dell keyboard I have lying around.

I have 3 old IBM's at home circa 83-88. Maybe I should check it out. I wonder what kind of switches Keytronic uses. I had a thing for those a few years back.

While watching the video in the OP link, My wife was ROFL laughing. have I reached a new level of nerd dom?

I think Keytronic are one of the nicer companies that uses rubber domes.


----------



## Heady

Thank you very much for this nice guide! The Filco 104 key's are looking really nice


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gre0481* 
I need to invest in something like this after I get my sig rig back up (YAR evga).

I bought a g15 (v1), and then the new orange version. I couldn't believe what they charge for macro buttons, it was no different then the dell keyboard I have lying around.

I have 3 old IBM's at home circa 83-88. Maybe I should check it out. I wonder what kind of switches Keytronic uses. I had a thing for those a few years back.

While watching the video in the OP link, My wife was ROFL laughing. have I reached a new level of nerd dom?

You know what? My girlfriend did the same....but her tune changed quickly once she found out that this geekery cured her wrist pains!


----------



## Foooman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Iceman0803* 
Did you get an email confirmation? I haven't gotten anything yet as far as that goes.









This tracking update has been requested by:

Company Name: EliteKeyboards
Name: B. Kreps
E-mail: [email protected]

Message: Thank you
__________________________________________________ ________

B. Kreps of EliteKeyboards sent Benjamin Stepp of Benjamin Stepp
1 FedEx Home Delivery package(s).

This shipment is scheduled to be sent on 12/10/2009.

Tracking number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


----------



## -munk-

When it comes to usage for heavy gaming, does the Deck Linear or tactile work better?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *-munk-* 
When it comes to usage for heavy gaming, does the Deck Linear or tactile work better?

The Linear is better for gaming. But be warned, only *very* few people like Linear switches for typing. So if you're talking about heavy MMO gaming for example, where you do a lot of typing to chat, then you'll want the tactile.


----------



## GRPace

So is the model 1 keyboard any good for gaming?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GRPace* 
So is the model 1 keyboard any good for gaming?

Model 1? You mean Model M? Or Model F?


----------



## GRPace

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Model 1? You mean Model M? Or Model F?

Lol my bad. M


----------



## -munk-

More like TF2 and half life.
I have never used a Mechanical keyboard extensively before. Or at all to my knowledge. So with linear you have to get the key completely pressed to get it registered?
I'm sorry if this has already been covered, I kinda just gave up reading after pager 15 or so


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GRPace*


Lol my bad. M


Yup it works fine. You might have some trouble if you play stepmania type games because it doesn't have NKRO (so you might find blocked keys like you do on any other keyboard), but other than that it's fine. WASD gaming works perfectly.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *-munk-*


More like TF2 and half life.
I have never used a Mechanical keyboard extensively before. Or at all to my knowledge. So with linear you have to get the key completely pressed to get it registered?
I'm sorry if this has already been covered, I kinda just gave up reading after pager 15 or so


No the MX Black linear switches also actuate halfway down (at 2mm), the difference is that there's no tactile bump when you reach that point. When gaming you're going to be bottoming out the keys _anyway_, so tactile bumps don't really do much, if anything, for you.

When typing, it's better to have that tactile bump so that you have some sort of feedback so you don't bottom out the keys as much.


----------



## -munk-

Thank you, I know what I will purchase in the morning!


----------



## Snowblind

So, I'm going to be getting a mechanical keyboard soon. I've never used one, but with the plethora of great reviews for the things, I may as well. I was "this" close to getting a G15, but then I started doing research on mechical keyboards, and changed my mind.









I've been looking at the Das keyboards, and they look superb. Every single review that I can find for them has great things to say. However, what are your opinions? Should I just get an IBM model M off of e-bay and paint the thing black?

http://www.daskeyboard.com/


----------



## timw4mail

They must clean up reviews everywhere for the Das.

If you want something like the Das, get a Filco:
http://elitekeyboards.com

The Das 3 had key transposition errors, and the Das S just had a recall because the keyboards didn't work even as well as the Das 3.

If you are more interested in buckling springs, you can get a Unicomp Customizer, and order with it a set of blank keys.

http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/keyboards.html

In summary: Don't get a Das.


----------



## Snowblind

What's a key transposition error?


----------



## timw4mail

When the keyboard puts the keystrokes you sent to the computer backwards. 
Ie. "the" to "teh".


----------



## Manyak

Yeah don't get a Das. There are other keyboards with Cherry Blue switches that are much better. If you like I'm selling a Filco with them (see my sig!)


----------



## Kitarist

So guys are these mechanical keyboard like the comodore keyboard in terms of feel


----------



## lmnop

no not really.


----------



## RayvinAzn

I was going through some old boxes the other day, and I ran across a few neat finds - the keyboards from our old Macintosh SE/30 and PowerMac 7500/100. The one from our SE/30 isn't a full-size board exactly - it uses a Control key where Caps Lock usually is, a (locking!) Caps Lock key down where the Control key usually is, a reverse "L"-shape Return (Enter) key, and arrow keys where the right-hand Alt/Ctrl/Win keys usually are. It does have a keypad however. The other is an Apple Extended Keyboard II. Both of these use Alps switches to the best of my knowledge, but with one mitigating factor - they use ADB connections.

I've seen a few ADB-USB adapters going for $50+ on Ebay, but that seems rather pricey for a simple adapter. I was wondering if anyone knows where I might be able to get a cheaper one? Or maybe even an ADB-PS/2 adapter? I'd like to get these boards up and running again, they were great boards to type on and I LOVE the locking caps-lock key.

For some extreme bonus points, I also have the original Macintosh Keyboard + keypad. I'm not sure what type of switches it uses (no discernible tactile feel), but the keys are VERY springy, and I love the feel of typing on it (indeed, it was the first keyboard I ever used with any regularity). Problem is, it uses an RJ-11(?) connector. Is it even possible to get this bad boy hooked up to a modern machine?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn* 
I was going through some old boxes the other day, and I ran across a few neat finds - the keyboards from our old Macintosh SE/30 and PowerMac 7500/100. The one from our SE/30 isn't a full-size board exactly - it uses a Control key where Caps Lock usually is, a (locking!) Caps Lock key down where the Control key usually is, a reverse "L"-shape Return (Enter) key, and arrow keys where the right-hand Alt/Ctrl/Win keys usually are. It does have a keypad however. The other is an Apple Extended Keyboard II. Both of these use Alps switches to the best of my knowledge, but with one mitigating factor - they use ADB connections.

I've seen a few ADB-USB adapters going for $50+ on Ebay, but that seems rather pricey for a simple adapter. I was wondering if anyone knows where I might be able to get a cheaper one? Or maybe even an ADB-PS/2 adapter? I'd like to get these boards up and running again, they were great boards to type on and I LOVE the locking caps-lock key.

For some extreme bonus points, I also have the original Macintosh Keyboard + keypad. I'm not sure what type of switches it uses (no discernible tactile feel), but the keys are VERY springy, and I love the feel of typing on it (indeed, it was the first keyboard I ever used with any regularity). Problem is, it uses an RJ-11(?) connector. Is it even possible to get this bad boy hooked up to a modern machine?

Wow dude, you found yourself some gems









You might want to take a look here for your converters. And then make your own


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Wow dude, you found yourself some gems









You might want to take a look here for your converters. And then make your own









That site wasn't too much help unfortunately - about all I got off it were the same pictures of the connectors used on Wikipedia. And even if I could find a specific schematic I still don't know where I'd find a female ADB connector without tearing up some old computers.

Looks like I might have to shell out some dough for the Griffin iMate unfortunately.


----------



## Iceman0803

I just got my Filco Majestouch Model: FKBN104MC/EB (104 key board with full N-key rollover and Cherry MX "Blue" switches) this afternoon. Man what an amazing board to type on after using garbage membrane/rubber dome based boards. Takes a bit of getting used to as the key presses are a bit lighter than I expected but I'm quickly getting accustomed to the feel of the keys. I actually find myself looking for any excuse to type something out now lol. This keyboard is a prime example of "You get what you pay for."


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn* 
That site wasn't too much help unfortunately - about all I got off it were the same pictures of the connectors used on Wikipedia. And even if I could find a specific schematic I still don't know where I'd find a female ADB connector without tearing up some old computers.

Looks like I might have to shell out some dough for the Griffin iMate unfortunately.

Well the thing about that site is that they have the scancodes and protocol for the Apple Lisa listed, which is ADB. You'd have to take the info to make your own converter, but it's there.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Iceman0803* 
I just got my Filco Majestouch Model: FKBN104MC/EB (104 key board with full N-key rollover and Cherry MX "Blue" switches) this afternoon. Man what an amazing board to type on after using garbage membrane/rubber dome based boards. Takes a bit of getting used to as the key presses are a bit lighter than I expected but I'm quickly getting accustomed to the feel of the keys. I actually find myself looking for any excuse to type something out now lol. This keyboard is a prime example of "You get what you pay for."









Awesome, glad you enjoy it


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Well the thing about that site is that they have the scancodes and protocol for the Apple Lisa listed, which is ADB. You'd have to take the info to make your own converter, but it's there.

I thought the Apple Lisa used a weird headphone-style jack?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn* 
I thought the Apple Lisa used a weird headphone-style jack?

http://oldcomputermuseum.com/macintosh_tam.html


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
http://oldcomputermuseum.com/macintosh_tam.html

That's a special edition version - the original Lisa was over a decade earlier, and didn't use ADB.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

May I ask what's the difference between brown and blue switches?

Is the louder sound of blues the only difference?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
May I ask what's the difference between brown and blue switches?

Is the louder sound of blues the only difference?

The blues have require 5 gram greater actuation force, and have a "click" sound internal to the switch. The browns just have a tactile point, so most of the sound is from bottoming out the switch. The browns also have a more predictable hysteresis compared to the blues.


----------



## Ikrin

How's the IBM Model F compared to the Model M?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ikrin* 
How's the IBM Model F compared to the Model M?

Clickier, more tactile, more travel, less actuation force, and generally more fun. The actuation point is later than on the Model M as well.

Basically, it's noisier, but has better feel.

Finding one is the difficult part, especially since I haven't seen one less than $100 since I got mine.


----------



## Ikrin

What's an XT connector? Is there any sort of adapter for PS/2 or USB?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Appreciate the explanation.

And I jumped on board with another impulse buy.

The only issue really is that when I want backspace I'm getting "\\".


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


What's an XT connector? Is there any sort of adapter for PS/2 or USB?


XT uses the same physical connector as AT, but the protocol is completely different. You would need to buy or make an active converter. And the only pre-made one I know of is here.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Appreciate the explanation.

And I jumped on board with another impulse buy.

The only issue really is that when I want backspace I'm getting "\\".



















Yeah that gets annoying when you're used to US ANSI keyboards. You'll get used to it though.


----------



## Ikrin

Where is here??


----------



## timw4mail

If you're looking at getting a Model F, make sure you get the AT version, commonly listed on ebay as IBM AT keyboard.

The XT version has a virtually unusable layout, and requires a complex XT->AT adapter.


----------



## lmnop

I rather have a standard size enter key than a small backspace key. SteelSeries 7G is another that has a small backspace key. the i-Rocks is a nice keyboard overall.

the Majestouch Linear Force are finally back in stock. looks like i'll be ordering one tomorrow.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Bump for a great thread.

I still getting used to mine. But I see why people rave about these keyboards.


----------



## lmnop

the Filco Majestouch Linear Force came out to $163 CAD so I ordered the SteelSeries 7G instead which came out to $157 CAD and if I make the $20 rebate in time $137 CAD. i'm getting the same Cherry MX Black Linear switches but the SteelSeries 7G has a better bundle with the keycap puller, extra set of keycaps, wrist rest and usb audio hub. i'll have to eat my own words and live with a small backspace key but this one is for gaming and the only time I ever use the backspace is to reset a camera in a third person or simulator. i'll continue to use my Das as my daily driver. i'm kinda disappointed I won't be owning a Filco anytime soon I just thought this was a better deal for me.


----------



## Manyak

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *lmnop*   the Filco Majestouch Linear Force came out to $163 CAD so I ordered the SteelSeries 7G instead which came out to $157 CAD and if I make the $20 rebate in time $137 CAD. i'm getting the same Cherry MX Black Linear switches but the SteelSeries 7G has a better bundle with the keycap puller, extra set of keycaps, wrist rest and usb audio hub. i'll have to eat my own words and live with a small backspace key but this one is for gaming and the only time I ever use the backspace is to reset a camera in a third person or simulator. i'll continue to use my Das as my daily driver. i'm kinda disappointed I won't be owning a Filco anytime soon I just thought this was a better deal for me.  
Nah that's definitely a better deal. And the audio passthrough for a headset is nice too.







. I think it's made by costar too anyway (same manufacturer as the Filco's), but hopefully you can confirm or deny that when you get it.

Can you do something with it though? Can you check the rollover with this program to see if it's a fixed 6+4key or if it does the sequencing like the KR-6230? Like notice in this video how once I press more than 6 keys, the first one gets dropped in favor of the most recent, and how when mashing keys the latency between each set of 6 keys is the same (so you can tell it's using an internal buffer).


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the Filco Majestouch Linear Force came out to $163 CAD so I ordered the SteelSeries 7G instead which came out to $157 CAD and if I make the $20 rebate in time $137 CAD. i'm getting the same Cherry MX Black Linear switches but the SteelSeries 7G has a better bundle with the keycap puller, extra set of keycaps, wrist rest and usb audio hub. i'll have to eat my own words and live with a small backspace key but this one is for gaming and the only time I ever use the backspace is to reset a camera in a third person or simulator. i'll continue to use my Das as my daily driver. i'm kinda disappointed I won't be owning a Filco anytime soon I just thought this was a better deal for me.


I actually tried that keyboard in store. It just doesn't feel good typing.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I actually tried that keyboard in store. It just doesn't feel good typing.


It doesn't just "doesn't feel good", it feels _terrible_, lol









But for pure gaming it's quite nice, I actually prefer those switches to tactile ones.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Just tested the Saitek Eclipse keyboard with that program, and it's as bad as my crappy HP keyboard. Literally the only difference is the shape of the plastic housing and the Saitek has LEDs.

I think it's conclusive then. Standard "gaming" keyboards are a RIPOFF.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Just tested the Saitek Eclipse keyboard with that program, and it's as bad as my crappy HP keyboard. Literally the only difference is the shape of the plastic housing and the Saitek has LEDs.

I think it's conclusive then. Standard "gaming" keyboards are a RIPOFF.


So when, exactly, are you going to get yourself a mechanical one?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Probably fairly soon. I may get a new hard drive first, replace these two old IDEs with a WD Caviar Black 750GB or some such. But I do like the looks, features, and (relative) price point of the ABS M1.

EDIT: I will say, gaming keyboards have one really good feature: the backlighting makes it a lot easier for my grandma to see the keys.







I was going to sell the Saitek, but as soon as my grandma saw the lighted keys she declared it hers.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Probably fairly soon. I may get a new hard drive first, replace these two old IDEs with a WD Caviar Black 750GB or some such. But I do like the looks, features, and (relative) price point of the ABS M1.

EDIT: I will say, gaming keyboards have one really good feature: the backlighting makes it a lot easier for my grandma to see the keys.










lol









I like the mechanical feature better though. Having no letters at all makes them good PC-noob deterrents!


----------



## Phaedrus2129

That's what BIOS passwords were invented for.







I have yet to meet a "nub" who knew the CMOS jumper from a USB port.


----------



## GRPace

Hmm what would you reccomend a ABS M1 over a model M 1992?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


That's what BIOS passwords were invented for.







I have yet to meet a "nub" who knew the CMOS jumper from a USB port.










Well yeah, but what happens when you've got a friend over and he asks "hey can I check my email?" (which is full of virus spam crap of course). If you've got a BIOS password you'll have to put it in for him, but if you've got a blank keyboard he wont even try because he won't know how to type in his password anymore


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GRPace*


Hmm what would you reccomend a ABS M1 over a model M 1992?


Quality wise the IBM wins, and it wins over every other keyboard out there except even older ones like the Model F or Model C).

But as to which one you'll enjoy more, that all depends on your preference. The Model M has a _very_ nice, precise feel to it because the pressure just suddenly drops instead of having a bump, but is pretty stiff (IMO it would be perfect if someone made lighter springs for it), while the M1's keys are lighter, quieter, and have an actual bump on the way down.


----------



## GRPace

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Quality wise the IBM wins, and it wins over every other keyboard out there except even older ones like the Model F or Model C).

But as to which one you'll enjoy more, that all depends on your preference. The Model M has a _very_ nice, precise feel to it because the pressure just suddenly drops instead of having a bump, but is pretty stiff (IMO it would be perfect if someone made lighter springs for it), while the M1's keys are lighter, quieter, and have an actual bump on the way down.


Thanks +1

Gonna try and snipe a Model M on ebay and if that doesnt work Ill just get the m1 after Christmas.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GRPace*


Thanks +1

Gonna try and snipe a Model M on ebay and if that doesnt work Ill just get the m1 after Christmas.


Hope you enjoy it


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GRPace* 
Thanks +1

Gonna try and snipe a Model M on ebay and if that doesnt work Ill just get the m1 after Christmas.

I'm going after one too; hope we don't get into a bidding war. There are a couple of Model Ms with a starting bid of $2.99. Take the one with no bids, k?


----------



## Hanjin

Why the bloody hell is it so damn hard to find used mechanical keyboards in Australia been looking for one for months


----------



## Crazy9000

Is there any USB keyboard that has a working n-key rollover? I know daskeyboards has tried it with their boards by having it count as two keyboards, but they don't seem to have done it very well.


----------



## Dead!

*** is a mechanical keyboard?


----------



## olli3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dead!*


*** is a mechanical keyboard?


read the first post! clue is in the title


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Is there any USB keyboard that has a working n-key rollover? I know daskeyboards has tried it with their boards by having it count as two keyboards, but they don't seem to have done it very well.


http://elitekeyboards.com has n-key rollover Filcos.

USB supports up to 6 regular keys, and 4 modifiers, so USB is the bottleneck.

Regardless of the number of keys you can actually press, this still guarantees that you won't have key blocking with any random combination of keys, up to the 6 key maximum.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


http://elitekeyboards.com has n-key rollover Filcos.

USB supports up to 6 regular keys, and 4 modifiers, so USB is the bottleneck.

Regardless of the number of keys you can actually press, this still guarantees that you won't have key blocking with any random combination of keys, up to the 6 key maximum.


The problem is I need more then 6 key presses at the same time. I am seeing ps/2 being slowly phased out on motherboards today, with them only offering a combination KB/mouse port instead of both now. I think the approach of making the keyboard appear as two is a way around it, if someone gets it working well.

Does anyone know if this is being worked on at least? I'm afraid that the average consumer is too ignorant to care, and the money may just not be there to perfect it. It looks like Daskeyboard has ditched their dual-keyboard attempt with their latest model, due to the issues the older one caused.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


The problem is I need more then 6 key presses at the same time. I am seeing ps/2 being slowly phased out on motherboards today, with them only offering a combination KB/mouse port instead of both now. I think the approach of making the keyboard appear as two is a way around it, if someone gets it working well.

Does anyone know if this is being worked on at least? I'm afraid that the average consumer is too ignorant to care, and the money may just not be there to perfect it. It looks like Daskeyboard has ditched their dual-keyboard attempt with their latest model, due to the issues the older one caused.


PS/2 isn't being phased out. Asus has that multi-PS/2 port but I think it's only on their top of the line models they still continue to use 2 PS/2 ports on their budget and medium models. other manufacturers continue to use 2 PS/2 ports.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


The problem is I need more then 6 key presses at the same time. I am seeing ps/2 being slowly phased out on motherboards today, with them only offering a combination KB/mouse port instead of both now. I think the approach of making the keyboard appear as two is a way around it, if someone gets it working well.

Does anyone know if this is being worked on at least? I'm afraid that the average consumer is too ignorant to care, and the money may just not be there to perfect it. It looks like Daskeyboard has ditched their dual-keyboard attempt with their latest model, due to the issues the older one caused.


Just as a curiosity, what do you need more than 6 keys at a time for?


----------



## Syrillian

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


Just as a curiosity, what do you need more than 6 keys at a time for?


Rage-mashing!


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Syrillian*


Rage-mashing!










Super Mario for the win.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
The problem is I need more then 6 key presses at the same time. I am seeing ps/2 being slowly phased out on motherboards today, with them only offering a combination KB/mouse port instead of both now. I think the approach of making the keyboard appear as two is a way around it, if someone gets it working well.

Does anyone know if this is being worked on at least? I'm afraid that the average consumer is too ignorant to care, and the money may just not be there to perfect it. It looks like Daskeyboard has ditched their dual-keyboard attempt with their latest model, due to the issues the older one caused.

I'm afraid that there's no such USB keyboard. It's _possible_ if they use the isochronous transfer mode, but that would cause problems with not working in BIOS or anywhere that legacy int9h is needed, and would require custom drivers like any other piece of hardware. Not to mention, they'd have to design a completely custom controller for it, and that alone is very expensive.

So if a company did decide to do it the board would have to cost $300+ to make up for the development costs. A company like logitech could probably eat the loss to get higher sales figures in the long run, but it's useless unless they also switch the matrix to something NKRO capable.

The smaller, less mainstream mechanical board companies just can't do it for a reasonable price.


----------



## lmnop

will USB 3.0 change anything?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
will USB 3.0 change anything?

I tried finding that info a while ago, but couldn't. I might just have to look through the official specification (not fun, lol).


----------



## lmnop

in any case I am sure it will be a long time before Costar implements it.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Looks like I'm getting a cheap Model M 1391401. I know these are great for typing, which is good because I type a lot. So that makes it worthwhile. How do they game, though?


----------



## lmnop

I haven't used one in many years. I don't think they are good keyboards for gaming. you should try the Dell AT101W instead there is a dozen of them on eBay.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Looks like I'm getting a cheap Model M 1391401. I know these are great for typing, which is good because I type a lot. So that makes it worthwhile. How do they game, though?

They're fine for it, just as long as you don't need to double-tap keys (double tapping is worse on model Ms even than on cherry blues). And they don't have NKRO so it's possible that some key combinations won't work (if you play stepmania or whatever). But standard WASD gaming won't give you any trouble.


----------



## lmnop

this guy is selling a lot of 9 Dell AT101W. look like they are in good condition.

http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-OF-9-DELL-VI...item2ea9e668e1


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Great.







Nah, don't need to double tap much if at all, so this should be fine. The clicky noise might be annoying at first, but I'll be I get over it... And if not, I still have a great typing keyboard. Just as long as it doesn't get bid up at the last minute. >.>


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Won the bid on a used Model M for $6.50 + $13 shipping. Good deal? I hope so.


----------



## A Legend of Sorts

hmmm am I crazy for wanting the Cherry MX blacks for typing? Everytime I hear tactile I can't help but think of the joint pain from my laptop keyboard and its tactile feel.... I think I want non-tactile, non clicky, and light feel...

Is there any easy way to find out what I like before buying? Or can I buy cheap KBs somewhere find out what I like then buy a good KB with the switch type I prefer?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The only "cheap" mechanical keyboard I know of is the IBM Model M... Search through dumpsters behind office buildings and such, you might get lucky. Otherwise you either get a Model M on ebay... or pay $40+ at minimum for a modern mechanical keyboard.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Won the bid on a used Model M for $6.50 + $13 shipping. Good deal? I hope so.


Good deal for sure









Once you see how big and heavy it is you'll know why the shipping price sounds ridiculous.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *A Legend of Sorts*


hmmm am I crazy for wanting the Cherry MX blacks for typing? Everytime I hear tactile I can't help but think of the joint pain from my laptop keyboard and its tactile feel.... I think I want non-tactile, non clicky, and light feel...

Is there any easy way to find out what I like before buying? Or can I buy cheap KBs somewhere find out what I like then buy a good KB with the switch type I prefer?


Believe me, it's nothing like your laptop. On your laptop you've gotta hit a solid plate with every keystroke. With mechanical switches you never hit the bottom at all.

You can find _tons_ of cheap mechanical boards on ebay. The list at the end of the OP has a bunch of those. The easiest to find (but not the only ones) are the Model M (but it's stiff, so maybe avoid that), Compaq or Cherry MX11800 (Cherry MX Browns), Cherry MX11900 (Cherry MX Blacks), Cherry ML4100 (Cherry ML Blacks), and Dell AT101W (Original Black Alps).

But if you want both a light spring and light tactile bump (nothing that'll cause any sort of fatigue), the three you'd probably enjoy the most are (from heaviest to lightest) Black Alps, Cherry Browns, and Topres.


----------



## brodie337

Tomorrow I'll be picking up my first mechanical board, a chicony KB-5181.

A friend of mine found it destined for the trash at a school she works at. I cant seem to find much on it on the internet though, has anyone seen or used one?

Thanks,
Brodie.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *brodie337*


Tomorrow I'll be picking up my first mechanical board, a chicony KB-5181.

A friend of mine found it destined for the trash at a school she works at. I cant seem to find much on it on the internet though, has anyone seen or used one?

Thanks,
Brodie.


I have. There are two kinds of switches you can find on it - they will either be rectangular (SMK) or a cross (Cherry Blues, I think - not 100% sure on this). I have the one with the SMK switches and I absolutely love it, way more than Cherry Blues. If it had a regular sized backspace key I'd be using it over my Filco for sure.

Now that you reminded me of it I might have to mod it a bit!


----------



## brodie337

Well thats what I had in mind, to build a 'sleeper' keyboard.

Keep it looking stock, but add a USB hub in the back (PS2 connection + USB) and perhaps backlighting around the keys for the geek factor.


----------



## Unknownm

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SgtSpike*


See, I don't understand the mechanical craze over keyboards. I LOVE laptop-feeling keyboards, hence the reason I've bought several of Microsoft's Comfort Curve 2000's. Best keyboard I've ever had the pleasure to type on. And I HAVE tried true mechanical keyboards. I just don't like 'em. You have to press the keys down far too far to acuate (sp?), and it slows me down considerably.


agreed. Laptop keyboards rock. I'm typing this on some crappy Aopen PS/2 keyboard and it sucks. My USB keyboard lags like crap


----------



## A Legend of Sorts

Dell AT101W ordered from ebay for $9.99 + $12.xx shipped, I hope I am not disappointed.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A Legend of Sorts* 
Dell AT101W ordered from ebay for $9.99 + $12.xx shipped, I hope I am not disappointed.

Just be warned, the Dell is not considered to be among the nicer mechanical keyboards. If you really like it, that's great. If you don't, please don't think that all mechanical keyboards are like it. They aren't.


----------



## A Legend of Sorts

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


Just be warned, the Dell is not considered to be among the nicer mechanical keyboards. If you really like it, that's great. If you don't, please don't think that all mechanical keyboards are like it. They aren't.


Do you mean just build quality or comfort as well? This is not a good sign...


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *A Legend of Sorts*


Do you mean just build quality or comfort as well? This is not a good sign...


Keyboards are a very personal thing, so I can't say how much you will or won't like it. That said, I find the Dell to be a fatiguing mechanical keyboard. Some people really like it.

The keycaps may be a little thin, but quality on the Dell really isn't an issue.

It is among the cheapest mechanical keyboards, so if you like it, consider it as a bunch of money saved. And if you don't like it, $20 isn't that bad for a normal keyboard, let alone a mechanical one.


----------



## lmnop

he is right keyboards are very subjective. I didn't find the Dell AT101W to be tiring at all I found the Black Alps to feel lighter than Buckling Springs but they require the same amount of force so maybe it's psychosomatic and no i'm not talking about the AT101


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *brodie337*


Well thats what I had in mind, to build a 'sleeper' keyboard.

Keep it looking stock, but add a USB hub in the back (PS2 connection + USB) and perhaps backlighting around the keys for the geek factor.


You could also get custom keys made from signature plastics (or like 20 other places) so you can have the letters light up. It's pretty expensive though.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *A Legend of Sorts*


Do you mean just build quality or comfort as well? This is not a good sign...


Just think of it as an indicator of the difference between mechanical and rubber. It will have a higher build quality, and it won't have the squishy feel of rubber. And if you can take it and itemize exactly what you do and don't like about it, it becomes a gazillion times easier to point you to a keyboard that you will enjoy for sure.


----------



## BlackHoleSun

So I'm finally ordering my Filco tonight, Cherry Blues, but no NKRO as I don't game enough to utilize it, nor do I when I do game. So I grabbed the lavender WASD keycaps and the Italian Red option for the board, but I'm not sure how it will look. I'll post pics when I get it!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlackHoleSun* 
So I'm finally ordering my Filco tonight, Cherry Blues, but no NKRO as I don't game enough to utilize it, nor do I when I do game. So I grabbed the lavender WASD keycaps and the Italian Red option for the board, but I'm not sure how it will look. I'll post pics when I get it!

Do it!


----------



## BlackHoleSun

Hopefully Wednesday I'll have it. I'm truly grateful because I am really getting tired of this rubber dome guy that I'm using. It serves its purpose pretty well, but my fingers are just aching after a good type, which happens often with the amount of labs and projects that i have to do.

Cherry Blues, A red chassis, Red ESC key and blue WASD cluster. It's going to be great, plus I plan to switch out the LEDs for Red ones, just to match the rest of the build.


----------



## Keatonus

w00t! I'm getting a Deck keyboard for christmas! Red LED backlit with Cherry MX Blacks. This will be my first mechanical keyboard!


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Keatonus*


w00t! I'm getting a Deck keyboard for christmas! Red LED backlit with Cherry MX Blacks. This will be my first mechanical keyboard!


I almost got one of those, but I'm happy I opted for a tactile version instead. Still, it would have been nice to get red backlights, although the whites are nice if only because almost nobody uses them.


----------



## brodie337

i got my Chicony the other day, and I'm a convert, much to the disgust of the rest of the house, thanks to the racket it makes. Aww well, but even after a short time on this board, I don't think I'll buy another dome keyboard.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *brodie337*


i got my Chicony the other day, and I'm a convert, much to the disgust of the rest of the house, thanks to the racket it makes. Aww well, but even after a short time on this board, I don't think I'll buy another dome keyboard.


Does that have the square blue sliders?


----------



## yawnbox

It came a day early! I was so excited for this keyboard to come in I decided to sand and paint my case red in the mean time... Typing on this... and the clicking... it's so sexy, like woh

Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO w/ Cherry MX *Blue *Switches



















Thank you, Manyak, for showing me the light


----------



## brodie337

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
Does that have the square blue sliders?

Yep, it's the Monterey switches.

Incredibly crisp and almost crunchy to type on, really satisfying, but I don't know if thats just me being acclimatised to a rubber dome.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *brodie337*


Yep, it's the Monterey switches.

Incredibly crisp and almost crunchy to type on, really satisfying, but I don't know if thats just me being acclimatised to a rubber dome.


Yup, now you know why a lot of people like mechanical boards so much









Just watch, after typing on it for a while try and go back to your old board. It just won't feel the same anymore.


----------



## BlankThis

I wish I could afford a decent board








Traded a Geforce 5200 for my 1st gen. G15


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Yup, now you know why a lot of people like mechanical boards so much









Just watch, after typing on it for a while try and go back to your old board. It just won't feel the same anymore.


So... What you're saying is that once we use a mechanical keyboard we won't be able to get used to cheap rubber domes anymore? We'll be stuck in a never ending spiral buying more and more expensive mechanical keyboards until we end up with some $200 Filco and recoil in horror at the sight of a normal keyboard, and we can't hold a regular typing job so we end up in some back alley with nothing but a Model M plugged into a cardboard box?









Thanks a lot Manyak. Thanks a _lot._


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


So... What you're saying is that once we use a mechanical keyboard we won't be able to get used to cheap rubber domes anymore? We'll be stuck in a never ending spiral buying more and more expensive mechanical keyboards until we end up with some $200 Filco and recoil in horror at the sight of a normal keyboard, and we can't hold a regular typing job so we end up in some back alley with nothing but a Model M plugged into a cardboard box?









Thanks a lot Manyak. Thanks a _lot._










lol









Well, if a friend let you drive his Ferrari one day, would you still look at your car the same way?

Or are you laughing right now because you actually own one? lol


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Well, still waiting on the Model M to arrive. USPS said I should expect it between the 22nd and the 30th. So... Big window. And there's always the possibility that the guy on ebay is just stiffing me, or that the keyboard got run over by a truck at some point (though I don't think that would do much to a Model M







).


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Well, still waiting on the Model M to arrive. USPS said I should expect it between the 22nd and the 30th. So... Big window. And there's always the possibility that the guy on ebay is just stiffing me, or that the keyboard got run over by a truck at some point (though I don't think that would do much to a Model M







).


Yeah, plus its right around christmas and shipping is _always_ crazy this time of year.


----------



## -munk-

So i got my Deck ToXic keyboard. I have to say it.. oh my gawd! This thing is amazing. Ultra fast, super sensitive, and just plain awesome looking to boot! Easily one of the better purchases I have ever made. I went with the ps/2 interface and absolutely love this thing. thank you for the advice!


----------



## BlackHoleSun

Has there ever been anybody who disliked a mechanical keyboard? Mine comes tomorrow, and even though I have no reason to write anything on it, I might start crunching away at a thesis or something.

Funny aside, I was talking to my mom about my Filco and I asked her if she remembered working with Model Ms back before her job at DOT threw them all out. She said that she remembered what they were like and noticed that the transition to rubber dome was not easy. She says she can tell the difference and realizes the more dropped keys she gets now a days as compared to the model M. BTW, my mom is computer ILLITERATE so it goes to show you that even the inexperienced can tell the difference.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BlackHoleSun*


Has there ever been anybody who disliked a mechanical keyboard?


Back in the days before rubber domes were common, many people disliked the excess noise they made. Some types of switches also don't agree with certain types of people - soft typists won't like a heavier switch, and people who rely on silence to type won't like buckling springs too much. I have never heard anyone say that mechanical keyboards actually feel worse than rubber domes however. Heard lots of people say they're not worth the money, or that they need media keys, etc. but I don't believe I know of anyone who has spent any significant amount of time with a mechanical keyboard that can genuinely say they dislike the feel of typing on one.


----------



## brodie337

Ditto.

My girlfriend isn't a huge fan of my board, she prefers the softness of a rubber dome, and isn't a fan of the racket this thing makes.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlackHoleSun* 
Has there ever been anybody who disliked a mechanical keyboard? Mine comes tomorrow, and even though I have no reason to write anything on it, I might start crunching away at a thesis or something.

Funny aside, I was talking to my mom about my Filco and I asked her if she remembered working with Model Ms back before her job at DOT threw them all out. She said that she remembered what they were like and noticed that the transition to rubber dome was not easy. She says she can tell the difference and realizes the more dropped keys she gets now a days as compared to the model M. BTW, my mom is computer ILLITERATE so it goes to show you that even the inexperienced can tell the difference.

Lol, writing a thesis just for the hell of it. Yeah, ok









But yeah it doesn't have anything to do with being computer illiterate, it's just a matter of being a typist or not. I mean, if you did the hunt-and-peck thing, do you think you'd care what the keyboard felt like at all?

I _have_ actually seen a few people who don't like the feel of mechanicals, but it's mostly because the one switch they tried just doesn't fit their typing style and they just gave up after it. I mean, if I was in the same situation and the first thing I tried was something with Cherry MY's, I'd have been pissed (FYI, MY's are linear and _very_ springy). And that happens once in a while with _any_ switch type. So if for whatever reason you don't like the feel of the Cherry Blues, and you can pinpoint exactly what it is that you don't like (the resistance of the spring, the sharpness of the tactile bump, or whatever), that makes it very easy to find you a switch that you _will_ like.


----------



## Keatonus

Quote:


Originally Posted by *-munk-* 
So i got my Deck ToXic keyboard. I have to say it.. oh my gawd! This thing is amazing. Ultra fast, super sensitive, and just plain awesome looking to boot! Easily one of the better purchases I have ever made. I went with the ps/2 interface and absolutely love this thing. thank you for the advice!

congrats man! I'm getting mine for christmas, I can't wait!


----------



## tombom

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823224001

ABS is now 49.99 btw, not 44.99.


----------



## Iceman0803

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I mean, if you did the hunt-and-peck thing, do you think you'd care what the keyboard felt like at all?


Yes.

I do the "hunt-and peck thing" (I dont have the dexterity in the fingers of my left hand to type the "correct" way.) and even though I'm still not as fast as most, the feel of the Cherry "blue" switches actually help my speed a little. I spend far less time looking up at the screen to make sure a press registered correctly because I can feel whether it has or not. Plus I get the added bonus of not having to bottom out the keys to register a press (like I did with my rubber dome based board) which for me makes typing more pleasurable and far less tiresome (even though I only use 3 fingers). So yes, even though I'm not a "typist" in the true sense of the word, key feel is still important to me. I do admit that your statement probably does apply to most other "hunt-and-peck" types though.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Iceman0803*


Yes.

I do the "hunt-and peck thing" (I dont have the dexterity in the fingers of my left hand to type the "correct" way.) and even though I'm still not as fast as most, the feel of the Cherry "blue" switches actually help my speed a little. I spend far less time looking up at the screen to make sure a press registered correctly because I can feel whether it has or not. Plus I get the added bonus of not having to bottom out the keys to register a press (like I did with my rubber dome based board) which for me makes typing more pleasurable and far less tiresome (even though I only use 3 fingers). So yes, even though I'm not a "typist" in the true sense of the word, key feel is still important to me. I do admit that your statement probably does apply to most other "hunt-and-peck" types though.










Well damn, I never thought that would be the case. I guess I should stop making that statement


----------



## Iceman0803

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Well damn, I never thought that would be the case. I guess I should stop making that statement










LOL, you're probably right about most, just not me.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


So... What you're saying is that once we use a mechanical keyboard we won't be able to get used to cheap rubber domes anymore? We'll be stuck in a never ending spiral buying more and more expensive mechanical keyboards until we end up with some $200 Filco and recoil in horror at the sight of a normal keyboard, and we can't hold a regular typing job so we end up in some back alley with nothing but a Model M plugged into a cardboard box?









Thanks a lot Manyak. Thanks a _lot._










...you _are_ at overclock.net. There's no going back...no more slow computers, no more cheap headphones, no more rubber dome keyboards... Its a lifelong upward spiral ending with someone from your credit card company showing up at your parent's front door to talk to you about your debts...and yes your parent's house because you'll still be living with them.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Iceman0803*


Yes.

I do the "hunt-and peck thing" (I dont have the dexterity in the fingers of my left hand to type the "correct" way.) and even though I'm still not as fast as most, the feel of the Cherry "blue" switches actually help my speed a little. I spend far less time looking up at the screen to make sure a press registered correctly because I can feel whether it has or not. Plus I get the added bonus of not having to bottom out the keys to register a press (like I did with my rubber dome based board) which for me makes typing more pleasurable and far less tiresome (even though I only use 3 fingers).


There is no such thing as not having the dexterity to type properly unless you can pretty much not use the hand at all. You just need to take they time to learn. I think it's welll worth the time for any average computer user. You just need to learn enough to do it slowly, and normal typing will do the rest.


----------



## lmnop

don't all rubber domes have to be bottomed out?


----------



## Afrodisiac

On good days I can type using all fingers but as soon as I get worked up about something, I become good ole' Lightnin' Jimmy with my 2 pointing fingers.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


don't all rubber domes have to be bottomed out?


Not Topre ones. But those are capacitive, so nothing actually needs to contact for the switch to be made.


----------



## Iceman0803

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


There is no such thing as not having the dexterity to type properly unless you can pretty much not use the hand at all. You just need to take they time to learn. I think it's welll worth the time for any average computer user. You just need to learn enough to do it slowly, and normal typing will do the rest.


I have Cerebral Palsy. One of the side effects of this is limited motor function. In my case (especially my left hand) I have a difficult time moving my fingers (middle finger to pinky) independently of each other. So yes, I have a physical limitation that prohibits me from typing in the proper fashion. Because of this I use a three finger (Index and middle finger on my right hand and index finger on my left) hunt-and-peck style that works pretty well for me. No, it's not as fast as the proper method but it gets the job done.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Iceman0803*


I have Cerebral Palsy. One of the side effects of this is limited motor function. In my case (especially my left hand) I have a difficult time moving my fingers (middle finger to pinky) independently of each other. So yes, I have a physical limitation that prohibits me from typing in the proper fashion. Because of this I use a three finger (Index and middle finger on my right hand and index finger on my left) hunt-and-peck style that works pretty well for me. No, it's not as fast as the proper method but it gets the job done.


Can you move your fingers at least a _little_ bit independently - like, at least a little twitch? Because there _is_ a keyboard that might work for you if you can - the Datahand Pro II


----------



## Iceman0803

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Can you move your fingers at least a _little_ bit independently - like, at least a little twitch? Because there _is_ a keyboard that might work for you if you can - the Datahand Pro II


















Right hand, no problem. Left hand, not sure to be honest. My thumb and index finger on my left are fine it's just the remaining 3 that are difficult to move independently.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Iceman0803*


Right hand, no problem. Left hand, not sure to be honest. My thumb and index finger on my left are fine it's just the remaining 3 that are difficult to move independently.


Ah well, figured it was at least worth a shot.

There are also a few right-hand only keyboards if you think you'd be more comfortable like that, but you'll probably end up slower with them than what you're doing now.


----------



## BlackHoleSun

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Lol, writing a thesis just for the hell of it. Yeah, ok









But yeah it doesn't have anything to do with being computer illiterate, it's just a matter of being a typist or not. I mean, if you did the hunt-and-peck thing, do you think you'd care what the keyboard felt like at all?

I _have_ actually seen a few people who don't like the feel of mechanicals, but it's mostly because the one switch they tried just doesn't fit their typing style and they just gave up after it. I mean, if I was in the same situation and the first thing I tried was something with Cherry MY's, I'd have been pissed (FYI, MY's are linear and _very_ springy). And that happens once in a while with _any_ switch type. So if for whatever reason you don't like the feel of the Cherry Blues, and you can pinpoint exactly what it is that you don't like (the resistance of the spring, the sharpness of the tactile bump, or whatever), that makes it very easy to find you a switch that you _will_ like.


Some people get into the writing zone, and just love to type things out. I am one of those people, which is why decently long reports never really bothered me at all. Currently I am typing on my brandy new FILCO Majestouch keyboard and I honestly have to say how much I actually love this thing. The tactile feel of the sucker is just out of this world, and the click ability is perfect for speeding up my response time for knowing when the key is fully down and reacting. I honestly am unsure if I could ever make the transition back to non mechanical style switches now, as this is just too nice to type on.

BTW, the lavender WASD keys, the red ESC, all on the Italian Red frame is just downright awesome. This was so worth the money I spent for it.


----------



## Iceman0803

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Ah well, figured it was at least worth a shot.

There are also a few right-hand only keyboards if you think you'd be more comfortable like that, but you'll probably end up slower with them than what you're doing now.

Ya I do fine. Thx for the suggestion though.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlackHoleSun* 
Some people get into the writing zone, and just love to type things out. I am one of those people, which is why decently long reports never really bothered me at all. Currently I am typing on my brandy new FILCO Majestouch keyboard and I honestly have to say how much I actually love this thing. The tactile feel of the sucker is just out of this world, and the click ability is perfect for speeding up my response time for knowing when the key is fully down and reacting. I honestly am unsure if I could ever make the transition back to non mechanical style switches now, as this is just too nice to type on.

BTW, the lavender WASD keys, the red ESC, all on the Italian Red frame is just downright awesome. This was so worth the money I spent for it.

Well what are you waiting for, take a pic







. I've never actually seen all the colored keys on the red frame, so I'm pretty curious to how it turned out.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Iceman0803* 
Ya I do fine. Thx for the suggestion though.









Just trying to help


----------



## BlackHoleSun

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Well what are you waiting for, take a pic







. I've never actually seen all the colored keys on the red frame, so I'm pretty curious to how it turned out.




















Well, how do you like it? Personally I think it rocks!


----------



## Manyak

That's hot







. Maybe the next time I get a Filco I'll get a red one.

You know what you could use though, to make your setup look even better? An Xtrac Ripper XXL. It'll cover up that desk that looks like it survived WWII, act as a stabilizer and sound dampener for the keyboard, and give you a nice big surface for your mouse.


----------



## BlackHoleSun

Funny thing, this sucker actually did survive World War II, lol.

It was my Grandmother's Desk when she was a girl, and she is 76 now. Since it is a family heirloom, and I honestly love it to death, I will never get rid of it. Probably will build an extension to move my monitors up higher, and so I can put my speakers back on my desk. They used to be here when I only had one monitor, but alas the need for two 24" are a necessity now, so the speakers sit on top of the tower. I'm not favoring the response I get now due to being to high up, and next to each other so I don't sit at the intersection point anymore = not as good sounding music.

Anyway, I should invest in a good mat like that one.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlackHoleSun* 
Funny thing, this sucker actually did survive World War II, lol.

It was my Grandmother's Desk when she was a girl, and she is 76 now. Since it is a family heirloom, and I honestly love it to death, I will never get rid of it. Probably will build an extension to move my monitors up higher, and so I can put my speakers back on my desk. They used to be here when I only had one monitor, but alas the need for two 24" are a necessity now, so the speakers sit on top of the tower. I'm not favoring the response I get now due to being to high up, and next to each other so I don't sit at the intersection point anymore = not as good sounding music.

Anyway, I should invest in a good mat like that one.

ROFL, I don't think I could have called that any better









But nah definitely don't get rid of it. Even if it wasn't an heirloom, quality furniture like that is very hard to find these days (and pretty expensive). Hell, my bedroom set is like 50 years old, and I can definitely say it's the best quality furniture I have in the house. Handmade = win. But just like your desk, it could definitely use a refinishing







.


----------



## BlackHoleSun

+1 on the refinishing part. I'm also running out of places to put things, as these two monitors are killer on space, but so utterly useful. Funny thing is that very little on this sucker needs to be refinished, mainly the areas where there are constant movement, like where I rest my palms.

And I agree with Handmade = win. My Dad and I have been building furniture on the cheap since I was a kid, and it always outlasts anything store bought.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I agree that handmade furniture is _sooo_ much better than cheap, mass produced plywood/particleboard furniture. But for cheapness, you can't match $0 for an unused door blank from my grandpa's shop, laid across two old filing cabinets.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlackHoleSun* 
+1 on the refinishing part. I'm also running out of places to put things, as these two monitors are killer on space, but so utterly useful. Funny thing is that very little on this sucker needs to be refinished, mainly the areas where there are constant movement, like where I rest my palms.

And I agree with Handmade = win. My Dad and I have been building furniture on the cheap since I was a kid, and it always outlasts anything store bought.

Well hey if you actually make your own furniture like that, instead of building an extension to the desk for the monitors, why not build your own extra-tall tower speakers and put them right on the sides? I mean, you'd have to learn a little bit about how the box size/shape affects the sound and what to do to work around that, but it's _so_ worth it in the end. For $300 in drivers and whatever the materials cost you end up with the sound quality of a $1000 speaker system.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I agree that handmade furniture is _sooo_ much better than cheap, mass produced plywood/particleboard furniture. But for cheapness, you can't match $0 for an unused door blank from my grandpa's shop, laid across two old filing cabinets.









haha, yeah I think that tops it all


----------



## Iceman0803

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
That's hot







. Maybe the next time I get a Filco I'll get a red one.

You know what you could use though, to make your setup look even better? An Xtrac Ripper XXL. It'll cover up that desk that looks like it survived WWII, act as a stabilizer and sound dampener for the keyboard, and give you a nice big surface for your mouse.










That mat is pretty sweet but I don't think I would need that thing as my Filco weighs what seems like a ton. This puppy hasn't moved since I set it on my keyboard tray.

I kinda feel safer with it in my house cause I could probably knock an intruder out cold with it and then go right back to typing no problem lol.

EDIT: Merry Christmas!


----------



## KipH

My wife rolls her eyes every time I read this thread or drool over one of the sales pages that Manyak or others post. I must have been to the FILCO Majestouch keyboard page 10 times before Xmas, but nothing under the tree









BTW, the red ESC, all on the Italian Red frame are downright awesome. But the lavender WASD keys don't do it for me. I think I would do red keys there also. But I would love a green frame and gold or yellow keys to mach my green case. I think I still have some RC car model paint in my cans. Come here G15!

PS. Anyone want to by a picky G15 g2 with some paint thrown on it?


----------



## BlackHoleSun

The WASD cluster does take some time to get used to, but I find that it really breaks up the monotony on the keyboard, and it just seems to fit well.

Granted I honestly don't look down at my keyboard all that much, as I am 98.97% touch typist. I expect to get there fully soon, but there are some stupid things that I just haven't mastered yet, mostly with remembering totally where \\ and / are, just because I usually get them confused, but since I never really use them it's not that bad.

I'm also rethinking the LED change. I'm not quite happy with the green, but I think if I changed them to red it would be kind of dumb. Maybe white ones, or orange to somewhat match my "red" cathodes, since they really are orange.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Iceman0803* 
I kinda feel safer with it in my house cause I could probably knock an intruder out cold with it and then go right back to typing no problem lol.

You're thinking about the Model M.


----------



## Oscuro

Having used a pos $15 Benq generic white board for the past...4-5 years, I thought it was time for an upgrade, especially since I upgraded my old and trusty MX310 mouse (thing's been with me for 3-4 years...)

Ordered a Solidtek...we'll see how it works out. At the very least...it'll match the rest of my accessories...black mouse, black monitor, black case...


----------



## kyle-reece

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
You're thinking about the Model M.









nope, the model M can break through brick wall and crush a skull, filcos are the ones for knocking out...and while i'm at it zeniths are for projectile launching


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Heard a story about the Model M...

Some guy found six of them in a garbage can. He renovated two of them for himself, sent three to ClickyKebyoards, but one he decided to "test". He wanted to see if they really were indestructible.

First he set it down and walked on it. Worked fine. No big deal for a Model M. Next he set it down behind his SUV and backed over it. It shot out from under the rear tire and flew across the street... No damage but scratches.

Next day he went downtown for work. He set it in front of the rear wheel of a city bus. Bus ran over it, he got to work, plugged it in, still worked, every key. On his lunch break he went up on the roof of the three story building and chucked the keyboard as far as it could go. Every single key cap flew off and the outer housing cracked, but he found most of the keycaps, and when he plugged it in... Still worked.

Next he took it home and went over to his neighbor's. They took a propane torch to it. Only the outside layer of plastic turned black and melted; it would have taken them probably fifteen minutes to melt through.

Finally he took it into his garage and beat on it with a sledgehammer some two or three dozen times. That finally did it; when he tested it a handful of keys had stopped working. For the most part it was still functional, though.

They should have named that keyboard the Model M1 Abrams.


----------



## Su77en187

What are the differences between the Cherry White and Blues? I'm deciding which one to go with, either the Deck Frost or Filco Cherry MX Blues.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Su77en187* 
What are the differences between the Cherry White and Blues? I'm deciding which one to go with, either the Deck Frost or Filco Cherry MX Blues.

Cherry Whites are basically Cherry Browns with the springs from Cherry Blacks. Not like that means much to you right now....

Basically, they have a soft tactile bump, don't click, but have a stiff spring. Cherry Blues have a sharp tactile bump, are clicky, and have a lighter spring.


----------



## Su77en187

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Cherry Whites are basically Cherry Browns with the springs from Cherry Blacks. Not like that means much to you right now....

Basically, they have a soft tactile bump, don't click, but have a stiff spring. Cherry Blues have a sharp tactile bump, are clicky, and have a lighter spring.

Yeah, I need to try these out myself, but I don't know any retailer that carry these keyboards. I'm still going towards the Filco Cherry MX Blues. It sounds more like this old mechanical keyboard I've used before.


----------



## Manyak

If you've got a microcenter near you they carry the Das, which has Cherry Blues.

Do you know which board you used? At least maybe if we can figure out those switches we can find something that uses them (or is close).


----------



## Phaedrus2129

EDIT: nevermind

Let's see what switches I've heard of...
Cherry MX Blue/Black/Brown/White, ML Black, more...?
Black/White Alps and imitators
Model M buckling spring and imitators

Any others out there?


----------



## Su77en187

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


If you've got a microcenter near you they carry the Das, which has Cherry Blues.

Do you know which board you used? At least maybe if we can figure out those switches we can find something that uses them (or is close).


Does all Microcenter have the Das? I've never been to one, but there is one in Tustin/Santa Ana which is about 30 mins from where I live. I'll probably drive down there today if holiday traffic isn't hectic from and to the OC.

I don't what board I used, but it's very old bought back in 1998-99. It was a generic brand, I believe, but it had a very good feel to it when typing. I know for sure it was clicky, but not sure what kind of switch it used. I watched that video from hot hardware and it does sound like the third keyboard which is the M10.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Let's see what switches I've heard of...
Cherry MX Blue/Black/Brown/White, ML Black, more...?
Black/White Alps and imitators
Model M buckling spring and imitators

Any others out there?


Those, and Cherry MY's, are by far the most common ones, and pretty much the only ones you'll find on boards manufactured today AFAIK. But if you want to go back a few years to the 80's and 90's:
- SMK
- NMB
- Fujitsu
- Futaba
- NEC
- Marquardt
- Omron

And FYI, there aren't any Buckling Spring imitators per se. The license was just passed on from IBM to Lexmark to Unicomp. The mechanism - and even the entire keyboard - is still exactly the same as when it was originally made with only a few minor differences (drainage channels were added, a ribbon cable was used internally instead of a few wires on a connector, they use single-piece keycaps instead of dual-piece now, the plastic is a tiny bit thinner, and Unicomp's springs are a bit lighter).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Su77en187*


Does all Microcenter have the Das? I've never been to one, but there is one in Tustin/Santa Ana which is about 30 mins from where I live. I'll probably drive down there today if holiday traffic isn't hectic from and to the OC.

I don't what board I used, but it's very old bought back in 1998-99. It was a generic brand, I believe, but it had a very good feel to it when typing. I know for sure it was clicky, but not sure what kind of switch it used. I watched that video from hot hardware and it does sound like the third keyboard which is the M10.


_All_ Microcenters? Possibly not, because at the end of the day the store makes the choice on what to keep in stock. But most likely it should be there. Hey, worst case, at least you'll get to check out the place









Yeah the M10 uses Cherry Blues, but SMKs sound pretty close too. If you _really_ want to find the exact same switch I can point you to a couple of older (and cheaper) boards to order and try out before getting an expensive one.


----------



## rfjunkie

I picked up a Das Professional today... I received a gift card for Micro Center for Christmas this year and used it to pay for part of a Das Professional.... So far I like it. I'm not to worried about the rollover on it, Since I'm not that fast of a typist. I do like the feeling of the keys compared to my cheaper Filco B-Stock keyboards. The keys on the B-stock are a little heavy. This Das seems pretty smooth so far.

I think I remember seeing a post saying that this Das has blue cherry switches. (I just might have to replace my tenkeyless keyboard that is on my "Daily driver" with one that has blue cherries..)

To bad that I own 2 of the B-stock Filco's already...

It's going to be kinda weird to go back and forth between the 2 different keyboard for now.... Until I can get a Filco tenkeyless with blue cherries.

BTW- For the person that was asking if all Micro Centers carry the DAS keyboard... You can always check to see if your local store has it in stock online. Just have to pick your location. I'd to the search for the product first, then pick your store location, and finally do a refresh of your browser... It will tell you if there in stock or not then.

Here is the link to the DAS keyboard-->DAS keyboard at Micro Center


----------



## Odel

Got myself a steelseries 7G for christmas!!!


----------



## rfjunkie

Looks like my Gigabyte motherboards don't like the DAS keyboard that much.... Works fine on my ASUS boards and Zotac. No matter what I do with the bios setting on the gigabyte boards I cannot seem to get the DAS to work right. I need to have another keyboard with a PS2 plugged in at the same time to get it to work right. It seemed to work alright at first but I couldn't get into the bios. So I changed the setting in the bio to accept a USB keyboard and Windows 7 couldn't find the right drivers after a reboot.

And since the DAS has a USB hub, I wasn't able to get it to work with a PS2 adapter. 
I should have just stuck with a brand that I know works and that didn't have a USB hub in it.

So it looks like I will be taking it back tomorrow sometime and waiting for Elite Keyboards to get some more Filco tenkeyless blue cherry keyboards in.

I was wondering what the smaller DECK keyboards have in them for switches. I see they list whats in there fullsize keyboards, but not the small form factor ones.

Well thats it for my complaining about the DAS I just got... Other than the driver problems its a nice feeling keyboard... But I'm not going to put in on a machine that I don't use that often. I would like to use it on one of the ones that I use all the time.

There! now I'm done complaining.


----------



## Josh81

Theres too many choices so I might as well ask.

I am a very fast typer, and a competitive gamer. I have a price range of ~125$, what do I buy?


----------



## Afrodisiac

Steelseries 7G for gaming.


----------



## Ikrin

It it worth it to get some old Apple ADB keyboards and ADB to USB adapters?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Odel*


Got myself a steelseries 7G for christmas!!!


.....and?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *rfjunkie*


Looks like my Gigabyte motherboards don't like the DAS keyboard that much.... Works fine on my ASUS boards and Zotac. No matter what I do with the bios setting on the gigabyte boards I cannot seem to get the DAS to work right. I need to have another keyboard with a PS2 plugged in at the same time to get it to work right. It seemed to work alright at first but I couldn't get into the bios. So I changed the setting in the bio to accept a USB keyboard and Windows 7 couldn't find the right drivers after a reboot.

And since the DAS has a USB hub, I wasn't able to get it to work with a PS2 adapter. 
I should have just stuck with a brand that I know works and that didn't have a USB hub in it.

So it looks like I will be taking it back tomorrow sometime and waiting for Elite Keyboards to get some more Filco tenkeyless blue cherry keyboards in.

I was wondering what the smaller DECK keyboards have in them for switches. I see they list whats in there fullsize keyboards, but not the small form factor ones.

Well thats it for my complaining about the DAS I just got... Other than the driver problems its a nice feeling keyboard... But I'm not going to put in on a machine that I don't use that often. I would like to use it on one of the ones that I use all the time.

There! now I'm done complaining.


It might simply be a problem of power delivery. Because it has a USB hub it needs more power than just a keyboard by itself. If you've got any powered hubs lying around, try connecting the keyboard to one of those first. That might fix your problem.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Josh81*


Theres too many choices so I might as well ask.

I am a very fast typer, and a competitive gamer. I have a price range of ~125$, what do I buy?


Unfortunately there are just as many answers as there are choices









How would _you_ like them to feel? Stiff or light? _Sharp_, _soft_, or _no_ tactile bump? Do you care if anyone can hear the keyboard?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


It it worth it to get some old Apple ADB keyboards and ADB to USB adapters?


Well not all ADB keyboards were mechanical, so I assume you only mean the ones that were (like the AEKII - which had different models for different switches). But yeah if you've got a Mac, then by all means go for it.


----------



## rfjunkie

The DAS keyboard came with a Y adapter to hook it up to 2 usb ports and I did so right away and it still didn't seem to work... I already took it back.

I prefer the tenkeyless Filco foot print. Takes up less space and I can have my Kinesis 10 key on the left side of the keyboard this way.

I will just wait for Elite to get some more in stock and use my b-stock one for now.

The b-stock one works good, I just liked the feeling of that DAS a lot better. And if you say that the DAS is blue cherries, I'm just going to be patient and wait for the Filco to become available at Elite Keyboards.


----------



## Crazy9000

If you figure out which one does the hub, you should be able to connect the das to the ps/2 port and the hub's usb connector to the USB.

I would advise against plugging the das keyboard into any USB hub, powered or not. They just don't seem to like hubs, they need to plug straight into the motherboard.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Well not all ADB keyboards were mechanical, so I assume you only mean the ones that were (like the AEKII - which had different models for different switches). But yeah if you've got a Mac, then by all means go for it.









Actually, I do not. I just assumed they could be used with PCs/Windows as well, neglecting the fact that they do not have Windows/Start keys. I heard some had pink alps switches, which seem to be recommended.


----------



## rfjunkie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
If you figure out which one does the hub, you should be able to connect the das to the ps/2 port and the hub's usb connector to the USB.

I would advise against plugging the das keyboard into any USB hub, powered or not. They just don't seem to like hubs, they need to plug straight into the motherboard.

It's to late to try anything to it... I already returned it.

The Y adapter is an add on... the keyboard its self has only one USB plug.
It seems like the DAS is wired to the USB hub first when it was installing the drivers the hub came up first then the keyboard.... I think that is the whole problem with the keyboard... If they wouldn't have added the hub to it, I'm sure it would have worked just fine. But they have to add extra crap to the keyboard that a person doesn't really need.

I will just wait for the Filco keyboard... I would rather use a PS2 adapter and plug it in to the ps2 port. It frees up a USB port that way and I can access the bios with out having to plug in another keyboard with a PS2.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rfjunkie*


It's to late to try anything to it... I already returned it.

The Y adapter is an add on... the keyboard its self has only one USB plug. 
It seems like the DAS is wired to the USB hub first when it was installing the drivers the hub came up first then the keyboard.... I think that is the whole problem with the keyboard... If they wouldn't have added the hub to it, I'm sure it would have worked just fine. But they have to add extra crap to the keyboard that a person doesn't really need.

I will just wait for the Filco keyboard... I would rather use a PS2 adapter and plug it in to the ps2 port. It frees up a USB port that way and I can access the bios with out having to plug in another keyboard with a PS2.


The problem with daskeyboard is they tried to make nkey rollover work via USB. The thing they tried was to get the keyboard to register as two keyboards, theoretically giving 12 instead of 6 key presses. This ended up just causing tons of issues like you experienced. They gave up on it with the new model of their keyboards, which are due out soon.


----------



## Ikrin

Are these mechanical keyboards?

http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-VINTAGE-37L0...item51839724b1


----------



## rfjunkie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


Are these mechanical keyboards?

http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-VINTAGE-37L0...item51839724b1


If they are thats a steal of a price.


----------



## Odel

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Josh81*


Theres too many choices so I might as well ask.

I am a very fast typer, and a competitive gamer. I have a price range of ~125$, what do I buy?


Steelseries 7G


----------



## Odel

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


.....and?










And I love it! The build quality and response time are so good!


----------



## rfjunkie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Odel*


And I love it! The build quality and response time are so good!


You must have just received your daily e-mail too...


----------



## Martkilu

Got my ABS M1 for Christmas... Absolutely love it







Feels so much better to type on than my old keyboard and well, everything about it is better


----------



## rfjunkie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Martkilu* 
Got my ABS M1 for Christmas... Absolutely love it







Feels so much better to type on than my old keyboard and well, everything about it is better









I just looked at the pics of what you got on New Egg... Looks like a decent keyboard.... I should have maybe ordered one of them instead of trying the DAS yesterday. Oh well... Live and learn.

Early reviews on there are kinda bad... Looks like they got better later on.


----------



## Mootsfox

Well my G15 bit the dust today. So I pulled out the blacked-out Dell Clicky I made... It's going to take me a bit to learn that I can't look down at the keys


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
If you figure out which one does the hub, you should be able to connect the das to the ps/2 port and the hub's usb connector to the USB.

I would advise against plugging the das keyboard into any USB hub, powered or not. They just don't seem to like hubs, they need to plug straight into the motherboard.

Nah even if it was two plugs coming out of the keyboard, chances are that one of them is power only, similar to how external HDD's do it.

Keyboards with hubs normally connect the keyboard controller to the hub internally, not as two separate connections.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ikrin* 
Actually, I do not. I just assumed they could be used with PCs/Windows as well, neglecting the fact that they do not have Windows/Start keys. I heard some had pink alps switches, which seem to be recommended.

I'm pretty sure they can, but don't quote me on it. And yes some of them have pink alps (more like a cream color) and are quite nice, but there are also some with other types of switches and there's no way of telling the difference unless you remove the keycap and check. So if you do buy one, ask the seller to take a pic of what's underneath first so you know what you're getting. They are all supposedly good except the ones with white alps (which, for some very strange reason, aren't like any other white alps in that they aren't clicky at all).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ikrin* 
Are these mechanical keyboards?

http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-VINTAGE-37L0...item51839724b1

No those are rubber dome. Don't fall for that "Semi-Clicky" crap.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rfjunkie* 
I just looked at the pics of what you got on New Egg... Looks like a decent keyboard.... I should have maybe ordered one of them instead of trying the DAS yesterday. Oh well... Live and learn.

Early reviews on there are kinda bad... Looks like they got better later on.

Yeah they had problems at the start but have since been fixed. They still don't have the best build quality out there, but at least their electronics are in order now.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mootsfox* 
Well my G15 bit the dust today. So I pulled out the blacked-out Dell Clicky I made... It's going to take me a bit to learn that I can't look down at the keys









Well you can always look down, it just won't be of much use


----------



## rfjunkie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Nah even if it was two plugs coming out of the keyboard, chances are that one of them is power only, similar to how external HDD's do it.

Keyboards with hubs normally connect the keyboard controller to the hub internally, not as two separate connections.

I'm pretty sure they can, but don't quote me on it. And yes some of them have pink alps (more like a cream color) and are quite nice, but there are also some with other types of switches and there's no way of telling the difference unless you remove the keycap and check. So if you do buy one, ask the seller to take a pic of what's underneath first so you know what you're getting. They are all supposedly good except the ones with white alps (which, for some very strange reason, aren't like any other white alps in that they aren't clicky at all).

No those are rubber dome. Don't fall for that "Semi-Clicky" crap.

Yeah they had problems at the start but have since been fixed. They still don't have the best build quality out there, but at least their electronics are in order now.

Well you can always look down, it just won't be of much use









You sure have a lot of answers about this mechanical keyboard stuff.. I sure am glad that I came across it a while back.

Edit-- I always look for your avatar for a response for a question or comment that I have posted. It always seems to be good advise.

Like the Kinesis 10 key you suggested. I ended up ordering one that night on Amazon. It sure beats the cheap Inland one that I picked up from Micro Center, even though I don't use a 10 key that often at home, It's just nice to have. (it doesn't really have a tactilefeel though, you can tell its quality built and will last.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rfjunkie*


You sure have a lot of answers about this mechanical keyboard stuff.. I sure am glad that I came across it a while back.

Edit-- I always look for your avatar for a response for a question or comment that I have posted. It always seems to be good advise.

Like the Kinesis 10 key you suggested. I ended up ordering one that night on Amazon. It sure beats the cheap Inland one that I picked up from Micro Center, even though I don't use a 10 key that often at home, It's just nice to have. (it doesn't really have a tactilefeel though, you can tell its quality built and will last.


Just glad to help









But yeah Cherry Browns have a very soft tactile bump, not a sharp, satisfying one like Blues or most of the other switches.


----------



## Su77en187

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Those, and Cherry MY's, are by far the most common ones, and pretty much the only ones you'll find on boards manufactured today AFAIK. But if you want to go back a few years to the 80's and 90's:
- SMK
- NMB
- Fujitsu
- Futaba
- NEC
- Marquardt
- Omron

And FYI, there aren't any Buckling Spring imitators per se. The license was just passed on from IBM to Lexmark to Unicomp. The mechanism - and even the entire keyboard - is still exactly the same as when it was originally made with only a few minor differences (drainage channels were added, a ribbon cable was used internally instead of a few wires on a connector, they use single-piece keycaps instead of dual-piece now, the plastic is a tiny bit thinner, and Unicomp's springs are a bit lighter).

_All_ Microcenters? Possibly not, because at the end of the day the store makes the choice on what to keep in stock. But most likely it should be there. Hey, worst case, at least you'll get to check out the place









Yeah the M10 uses Cherry Blues, but SMKs sound pretty close too. If you _really_ want to find the exact same switch I can point you to a couple of older (and cheaper) boards to order and try out before getting an expensive one.


Haha correct. Haven't made my way there yet, but I soon will.

Definitely, I don't really want to spend that amount for the Filco, but my cheap-o keyboard is dying, and I need a replacement as soon as possible. Please do recommend me alternatives keyboards that are similar to Cherry Blues. Very much appreciated!


----------



## lmnop

iOne Scorpius M10 is currently $49.99 USD + $9.99 USD shipping at Buy.com right now I don't think it's been that cheap since early summer.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Nah even if it was two plugs coming out of the keyboard, chances are that one of them is power only, similar to how external HDD's do it.

Everyone keyboard with a USB hub I've ever seen just has a separate cable for the hub. That way they can just take a hub and stick it in the keyboard casing.

Haven't seen the das with two cables though, mine only has one.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Everyone keyboard with a USB hub I've ever seen just has a separate cable for the hub. That way they can just take a hub and stick it in the keyboard casing.

Haven't seen the das with two cables though, mine only has one.

Well here you go. Here's an irocks KR-6230:










And a Das:


















With the iRocks the keyboard is clearly connected to the hub internally, and if you cut those wires you can completely bypass it. With the Das it's done on the controller PCB, which also has only a single USB header for the cable.


----------



## timw4mail

With my iMate, my AEKII works with Windows, the Command key is mapped to the Windows key.


----------



## MLJS54

I just sold my Filco Tenkeyless (Cherry Brown) - was an amazing keyboard but I could not get used to it daily after typing on a full-size IBM M like Bloomberg KB for 10+ hours a day at work. By sunday nights I was a machine on it but on the weeknights I could barely complete a sentence without a slew of typos.

Ordered the SteelSeries 7G from Newegg. Was going to go for a Filco linear full size (this is the KB I originally wanted but I just happen to win the cherry brown for real cheap on eBay) but since I have never used Cherry Blacks before I wanted to be able to return it in case I did not like the feel of the keys and Newegg return policy is pretty good about that. I also like the integrated sloped palm rest it has.

If I have the same problem with the 7G as I did with the Filco, back to the ole Model M for both work and home PC

P.S. Any other 7G owners out there, how do you like the board? I know a major complaint is the backspace key being too small. Anything else?


----------



## timw4mail

Good luck with the linear switches...I don't think they are very fun to type on.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

My Model M should be arriving today or tomorrow. USPS sure is taking its damn time (assuming the seller didn't stiff me).

Is the Model M sculpted or flat?


----------



## Manyak

Sculpted


----------



## hxcnero

i have an HP SK-2501A keyboard with white colored switches and is PS2. keyboard is old...really old.
any idea what white switches from the early 90s would be? the keys on it require a fair amount of force to press but by no means are difficult to press.

google only shows drivers. if its any good and i can find more info on it i may spray paint it and use it as my primary.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hxcnero* 
i have an HP SK-2501A keyboard with white colored switches and is PS2. keyboard is old...really old.
any idea what white switches from the early 90s would be? the keys on it require a fair amount of force to press but by no means are difficult to press.

google only shows drivers. if its any good and i can find more info on it i may spray paint it and use it as my primary.

Can you remove one of the keys and take a picture of the switch?


----------



## hxcnero

heres a pic. sorry for the low quality


----------



## Manyak

I have _no_ idea what that is. Then again, I can barely see it to begin with









But to be honest, I think it's just a plain rubber dome. A lot of the early ones were made with a slider for the keycap to sit on, and from what I can tell it looks like that slider is going straight into the plastic base. With a mechanical board you'd see each switch individually.


----------



## hxcnero

you wold be correct sir. it just an old school rubber dome. i just took the whole thing apart.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Hello, folks, this is my inaugural message with my new IBM Model M which just landed on my porch fifteen minutes ago. This thing is _nice_. I think I'm gonna go over it with some isopropyl and Q-tips later on, get it looking shiny again, but still... I can already tell I'm typing faster. I'll probably get even faster when I stop bottoming out the keys.









Thanks for putting me onto these Manyak, this is _way_ nicer than that HP multimedia rubber-dome board.


----------



## Manyak




----------



## Derp

I have a question, Razer claims their arctosa and lycosa have "ultra polling 1000hz 1ms response time" just like gaming mice have, which i have come to love after upgrading from my MX518 (125hz 8ms response time) to various 1000hz 1ms response mice, it is a very noticeable improvement.

What hz do regular $20 USB keyboards have? What hz do bargain USB mechanical keyboards like the ABS m1 have? and finally what is the hz of the $100+ NKRO PS/2 keyboards have?

Sorry for all the questions lol, just want to know if razer is trying to scam with a gimmick or if it is indeed faster then other keyboards that do not advertise their polling rate.


----------



## kyle-reece

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Auld* 
I have a question, Razer claims their arctosa and lycosa have "ultra polling 1000hz 1ms response time" just like gaming mice have, which i have come to love after upgrading from my MX518 (125hz 8ms response time) to various 1000hz 1ms response mice, it is a very noticeable improvement.

What hz do regular $20 USB keyboards have? What hz do bargain USB mechanical keyboards like the ABS m1 have? and finally what is the hz of the $100+ NKRO PS/2 keyboards have?

Sorry for all the questions lol, just want to know if razer is trying to scam with a gimmick or if it is indeed faster then other keyboards that do not advertise their polling rate.

first post

----------------------------

*Key Bouncing*
All types of key switches - including rubber domes - do this. When you press a key, the switch "bounces" on and off very quickly as it sets into place. This causes keys to register multiple times for each press. Because of this, keyboards need to implement some sort of debouncing delay - so that once you press a key, the controller waits a certain amount of time before registering a keypress. As an example, Cherry MX switches need 5ms of debouncing time, while rubber domes need longer (exactly how long depends on their quality).

*Polling Rates and Response Times*
While it is very useful for mice, it's just about meaningless for keyboards. Let's assume for a minute that all switches have the 5ms debouncing time of Cherry MX switches (which is being very generous). Even if you had super human speed and reflexes, every single key would be delayed by at least that much. So really, any polling rate over 200Hz (at best) is absolutely useless, and nothing but market hype. It may even be a bit detrimental, because you'd be wasting CPU time polling the keyboard unneededly. And unlike USB keyboards, PS/2 boards aren't polled at all. They simply send the signal to the PC whenever they are ready to, which causes a hardware interrupt, forcing the CPU to register that keystroke.

*PS/2 or USB?*
PS/2 wins on three fronts: First, it supports full n-key rollover. Second, PS/2 keyboards aren't polled, but are completely interrupt based. And third, it is impossible for it to be delayed by the USB bus being used by other devices. There are two types of USB transfer modes - the interrupt transfer mode (USB polls keyboard, when key is sensed the USB controller sends the interrupt to the CPU), and the isochronous transfer mode, which reserves a certain amount of bandwidth for the keyboard with a guaranteed latency on the bus. Unfortunately, there are absolutely no keyboards made that use the latter, because special controllers would have to be used, thus making it cost prohibitive.

So if your keyboard supports both PS/2 and USB, and your PC has a PS/2 port, there's no reason not to use it.

-----------------------------

PS/2 of any kind beats usb for input speed.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kyle-reece* 
first post

----------------------------

*Key Bouncing*
All types of key switches - including rubber domes - do this. When you press a key, the switch "bounces" on and off very quickly as it sets into place. This causes keys to register multiple times for each press. Because of this, keyboards need to implement some sort of debouncing delay - so that once you press a key, the controller waits a certain amount of time before registering a keypress. As an example, Cherry MX switches need 5ms of debouncing time, while rubber domes need longer (exactly how long depends on their quality).

*Polling Rates and Response Times*
While it is very useful for mice, it's just about meaningless for keyboards. Let's assume for a minute that all switches have the 5ms debouncing time of Cherry MX switches (which is being very generous). Even if you had super human speed and reflexes, every single key would be delayed by at least that much. So really, any polling rate over 200Hz (at best) is absolutely useless, and nothing but market hype. It may even be a bit detrimental, because you'd be wasting CPU time polling the keyboard unneededly. And unlike USB keyboards, PS/2 boards aren't polled at all. They simply send the signal to the PC whenever they are ready to, which causes a hardware interrupt, forcing the CPU to register that keystroke.

*PS/2 or USB?*
PS/2 wins on three fronts: First, it supports full n-key rollover. Second, PS/2 keyboards aren't polled, but are completely interrupt based. And third, it is impossible for it to be delayed by the USB bus being used by other devices. There are two types of USB transfer modes - the interrupt transfer mode (USB polls keyboard, when key is sensed the USB controller sends the interrupt to the CPU), and the isochronous transfer mode, which reserves a certain amount of bandwidth for the keyboard with a guaranteed latency on the bus. Unfortunately, there are absolutely no keyboards made that use the latter, because special controllers would have to be used, thus making it cost prohibitive.

So if your keyboard supports both PS/2 and USB, and your PC has a PS/2 port, there's no reason not to use it.

-----------------------------

PS/2 of any kind beats usb for input speed.

Thanks, i read through it and completely missed it.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The ABS M1 isn't really a bargain gaming keyboard; it has mechanical switches so it costs quite a bit more to make and is a bargain only in that instead of paying $80 for a keyboard that cost $10 to make, you're paying $50 for one that cost $35 to make.


----------



## MLJS54

Just got the Steelseries 7g today. Played a few games of CS:S and so far so good. Going to test drive it further for about a week to see how I feel about it then. Also, typing on it isn't as bad I thought it would be but I like stiff keys to begin with.


----------



## Derp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


The ABS M1 isn't really a bargain gaming keyboard; it has mechanical switches so it costs quite a bit more to make and is a bargain only in that instead of paying $80 for a keyboard that cost $10 to make, you're paying $50 for one that cost $35 to make.


I was going to buy one until i stumbled upon many people posting about the ABS M1 having key rollover problems as well as others mentioned here: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:7122


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I've heard they've resolved that problem, that was just in the first batch.


----------



## Derp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I've heard they've resolved that problem, that was just in the first batch.


That would be great because it is the only mechanical keyboard i can afford but many bad reviews are late this year, there is even a newegg review as recent as 12/17/09 complaining about the slow scan rate that was mentioned in the geekhack review.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Ah well. See if you can find a cheap Model M on ebay, I got mine for $6.50+shipping (totaled around $19). It's a great typing keyboard and does okay for gaming, though the clicking is slightly distracting in those cases.


----------



## Manyak

Yes the ABS M1 was fixed, that problem only applied to the first few batches. If by some stroke of luck you get one that doesn't work they will replace it for you with one that does.


----------



## tombom

JUST GOT AN IBM KEYBOARD!

This one: (Mine's not as new, and I don't have the little nub for the mouse that it comes with.

http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-Model-M13-Tr...item1e59bfa333

Model:13H6705 Which is an M13 I guess.

Wow a great quality one is going for like 130 on ebay and I got this thing for 4 dollars at goodwill. From what I can tell the typing is very different from the rubber domes I'm used to, and vaguely fatiguing. But, the feedback is very crisp and it feels pretty good to type on, other than the fact that it is a bit loud. For 4 dollars, I'm definitely not complaining and I think I'll give this board some more time to see how much I acclimate to it.


----------



## vinton13

What about the logitech black deluxe 255 dt? Is that good enough? And what about wireless keyboards?


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vinton13*


What about the logitech black deluxe 255 dt? Is that good enough? And what about wireless keyboards?










No, it's just another rubber dome. Also, as far as I'm aware, there is one wireless mechanical keyboard, but it's not available for sale in the US.

On a side note, here's a cheap "starter" keyboard. It's got clicky Cherry-copy switches. 
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Chicony-KB-5...ht_3487wt_1167


----------



## clownfart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vinton13*


What about the logitech black deluxe 255 dt? Is that good enough? And what about wireless keyboards?










I know Filco made a wireless keyboard. It wasn't very good so they stopped making it. I've heard that they might come back though.

If you really want a wireless keyboard, I actually enjoy the chiclet type scissor switch keyboards a lot. I know Apple makes one, so I'm sure there's copies out there that are decent.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

After a week of typing on my Model M I decided to try typing on my HP multimedia keyboard again to see if I noticed a difference. Woof! It's like I'm typing on a sheet of bubble wrap or something, it's just mushy as hell!

Mechanical keyboards rock. Never goin' back.


----------



## tombom

Hurm. Interesting. Wonder if I'll feel the same.


----------



## MLJS54

So after a week of using the 7G I can safely say its a great keyboard and I definitely prefer the stiffer key feel of the black switches over that of the browns (pls keep in mind I have a heavy hand when typing). *Edit:* Also, the small backspace key does not bother me - however, this may be because I always hit my backspace key at the top right edge

Gaming on it is fantastic. I even PvP'd a bit on my friends WoW mage to make sure it's not an FPS only good feel.

I just don't know if I can justify keeping it because of the cost. It's good but I don't know if it's $150 good and that much better than my spare Model M. However, if I was to drop $100 or more for a gaming board this would be my choice. Selling point of this over the Filco for me is definitely the integrated palm rest.

How do the keys on the ABS feel when compared to the cherry blacks?

At the end of the day I think I like it too much and am probably going to keep it


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MLJS54* 
So after a week of using the 7G I can safely say its a great keyboard and I definitely prefer the stiffer key feel of the black switches over that of the browns (pls keep in mind I have a heavy hand when typing). *Edit:* Also, the small backspace key does not bother me - however, this may be because I always hit my backspace key at the top right edge

Gaming on it is fantastic. I even PvP'd a bit on my friends WoW mage to make sure it's not an FPS only good feel.

I just don't know if I can justify keeping it because of the cost. It's good but I don't know if it's $150 good and that much better than my spare Model M. However, if I was to drop $100 or more for a gaming board this would be my choice. Selling point of this over the Filco for me is definitely the integrated palm rest.

How do the keys on the ABS feel when compared to the cherry blacks?

At the end of the day I think I like it too much and am probably going to keep it









Cherry Whites sound like the perfect switches for you. They're about as stiff as Blacks, but use the same tactile bump present in the Brown switches. The only keyboard I know of that uses them is the Deck Legend tactile versions, but those are even pricier than the 7G.


----------



## wonderlust

Hi

I have 3 IBM Model M keyboards (1391406s) the one I am currently using is dated 16-5-89 (yep thats 20 years old







) but the other two are in need of some rear feet/rises.

Does anyone know if these are available anywhere?


----------



## clownfart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MLJS54*


So after a week of using the 7G I can safely say its a great keyboard and I definitely prefer the stiffer key feel of the black switches over that of the browns (pls keep in mind I have a heavy hand when typing). *Edit:* Also, the small backspace key does not bother me - however, this may be because I always hit my backspace key at the top right edge

Gaming on it is fantastic. I even PvP'd a bit on my friends WoW mage to make sure it's not an FPS only good feel.

I just don't know if I can justify keeping it because of the cost. It's good but I don't know if it's $150 good and that much better than my spare Model M. However, if I was to drop $100 or more for a gaming board this would be my choice. Selling point of this over the Filco for me is definitely the integrated palm rest.

How do the keys on the ABS feel when compared to the cherry blacks?

At the end of the day I think I like it too much and am probably going to keep it










I haven't tried the MX blacks, but the black alps have a harder tactile bump and the keys are a bit stiffer than MX Blacks.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clownfart*


I haven't tried the MX blacks, but the black alps have a harder tactile bump and the keys are a bit stiffer than MX Blacks.


I wouldn't say that the black ALPS have a hard tactile bump, but rather a tactile cliff that makes it difficult to keep from bottoming out. Cherry MX blacks are linear, so there's no tactile bump at all.


----------



## cd_rom

Can you get some of these model from retailer(s) in UK? Im a cs student and coding/writing report quite often so im thinking of getting one of those mechanical keyboards but i can't find any except ebay which i dont like. Google dont help much as it seems no distributor in UK. I try scan.com website and they have some Cherry keyboard but they are like Â£20-Â£50 so i wonder if they any good? Here is the link to those keyboards http://www.scan.co.uk/Shop/Computer-...yboards/Corded


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Those Cherry boards look like regular rubber domes.

Unicomp will ship to the UK:
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/customizer.html
But it's going to be expensive, those keyboards are heavy.

These folks ship to the UK as well, but again shipping will be killer:
http://elitekeyboards.com/

There doesn't seem to be anything local.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cd_rom* 
Can you get some of these model from retailer(s) in UK? Im a cs student and coding/writing report quite often so im thinking of getting one of those mechanical keyboards but i can't find any except ebay which i dont like. Google dont help much as it seems no distributor in UK. I try scan.com website and they have some Cherry keyboard but they are like Â£20-Â£50 so i wonder if they any good? Here is the link to those keyboards http://www.scan.co.uk/Shop/Computer-...yboards/Corded

Yup, right here









They are also getting Filcos with the UK layout soon if you want to wait for them.


----------



## cd_rom

sigh, i will just stick with this logitech keyboard for now.

Thx anyway

I didn't see ur post manyak lol thx for the link!


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Ack, read Manyak's post!


----------



## cd_rom

yeah i will wait for the Uk layout then since im in no rush. I didnt' see ur post. Thanks a bunch


----------



## yawnbox

took a better picture today...









and of my case which i painted to match the keyboard


----------



## Ikrin

Which keyboard is that?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Looks like a Filco Majestouch.


----------



## yawnbox

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


Which keyboard is that?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Looks like a Filco Majestouch.


Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO w/ Cherry MX Blue Switches in Italian Red!! it's better than sex!


----------



## clownfart

I almost got the Italian red one. I could find a full red key set though. I think it'd look way better with one.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Manyak, you seem to be in the loop about these things. Is there any talk at EliteKeyboards (or anywhere else for that matter) about getting colored keycaps for Cherry MX-based boards Stateside? I know I'd really love a few sets of colored keycaps, but buying them from the Chinese websites strikes me as expensive at best, and rather dodgy at worst. I know you can dye them, but my efforts thus far haven't been quite to my liking (maybe I just suck at mixing colors). Given the sudden resurgence of the love for mech boards, hopefully we'll be able to get little niceties like these imported as well.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn* 
Manyak, you seem to be in the loop about these things. Is there any talk at EliteKeyboards (or anywhere else for that matter) about getting colored keycaps for Cherry MX-based boards Stateside? I know I'd really love a few sets of colored keycaps, but buying them from the Chinese websites strikes me as expensive at best, and rather dodgy at worst. I know you can dye them, but my efforts thus far haven't been quite to my liking (maybe I just suck at mixing colors). Given the sudden resurgence of the love for mech boards, hopefully we'll be able to get little niceties like these imported as well.

Unfortunately right now the only way to get different keycaps is to special order them, which is _really_ expensive for full sets unless you order in bulk.

I would really like to get a bunch of people in for a bulk order of something, this way we can drop the price per set to something reasonable. But the problem is that we'd all have to order the same thing.

Maybe when I get back to the states at the end of the month I'll try and organize something.


----------



## yawnbox

i'd be down for getting in on an order. perhaps as close to an overclock.net-blue-flame-colored-keycaps set


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yawnbox*


i'd be down for getting in on an order. perhaps as close to an overclock.net-blue-flame-colored-keycaps set










Yeah I was just thinking of having the OCN logo on the ESC key


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Yeah I was just thinking of having the OCN logo on the ESC key










That would probably have to be dye-sublimated, wouldn't it?


----------



## pow3rtr1p

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Yeah I was just thinking of having the OCN logo on the ESC key










I would rather it on the Windows Key, personally. Then OCN-Blue WASD Keys on top of that, and a blank keyset besides that.


----------



## clownfart

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn* 
Manyak, you seem to be in the loop about these things. Is there any talk at EliteKeyboards (or anywhere else for that matter) about getting colored keycaps for Cherry MX-based boards Stateside? I know I'd really love a few sets of colored keycaps, but buying them from the Chinese websites strikes me as expensive at best, and rather dodgy at worst. I know you can dye them, but my efforts thus far haven't been quite to my liking (maybe I just suck at mixing colors). Given the sudden resurgence of the love for mech boards, hopefully we'll be able to get little niceties like these imported as well.

I've heard talk about elitekeyboards getting some orange keys in. The best way to get colored keys there would be to ask for it.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Unfortunately right now the only way to get different keycaps is to special order them, which is _really_ expensive for full sets unless you order in bulk.

I would really like to get a bunch of people in for a bulk order of something, this way we can drop the price per set to something reasonable. But the problem is that we'd all have to order the same thing.

Maybe when I get back to the states at the end of the month I'll try and organize something.

You can put me down for a blank red set and blank white set.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Know what would make me fall in love? A backlit Filco keyboard.

Filco Majestouch 104-key NKRO Cherry MX Blues with blue backlighting... Talk about a dream keyboard, eh?


----------



## clownfart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Know what would make me fall in love? A backlit Filco keyboard.

Filco Majestouch 104-key NKRO Cherry MX Blues with blue backlighting... Talk about a dream keyboard, eh?










Blank keys > back lighting


----------



## Phaedrus2129

What's the big deal about blank keys? I rarely look at mine; only reason backlighting would be nice is so that at night I can find homerow quicker. Blank keycaps would just confuse people who can't touch type.

Heh, I typed on Dvorak for a little while, my mom tried to use my computer once, then screamed to me saying, "Your keyboard is dying! It's just putting out random garbage!"


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Unfortunately right now the only way to get different keycaps is to special order them, which is _really_ expensive for full sets unless you order in bulk.

I would really like to get a bunch of people in for a bulk order of something, this way we can drop the price per set to something reasonable. But the problem is that we'd all have to order the same thing.

Maybe when I get back to the states at the end of the month I'll try and organize something.


I'm in for at least a set of orange, yellow and blue. Possibly more depending on what funds are like, and I could adjust those colors if they're not popular.


----------



## Milkman128

I'm in the market for a gaming keyboard and was starting to settle on the razer lycosa due to its 1 ms response time.

It was between the 
lycosa

saitek cyborg
http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/cykey.htm

merc stealth
http://www.amazon.com/Ideazon-Stealt.../dp/B000V62BZU

or logitch G15

in the initial post a claim is made that ultrapolling is pointless because the key will be delayed by 5ms anyway(so the signal begins to transmit @ the beginning of the debounce delay?). Forgive my potential ignorance but... I would think it doesn't send the signal until the switch registers a key press making it a 5ms bounce + 1ms transmit for total latency vs a standard keyboard 5ms bounce + 8ms transmit for total latency.

What is the average delay on a rubber dome switch? sorry if i missed that.

does your recommendation of Deck Keyboards still stand? anything new & great coming out? Low latency is my primary goal, secondary is back lighting.

Great article & thread, I love endless amounts of data when I'm researching a product it makes the process much more enjoyable.


----------



## clownfart

I have never notices any input delay from my keyboard. I really don't think its an issue. I'd skip the Lycosa, its the worst rubber dome I have ever used.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

You will never notice a "5+8ms" delay. Anything less than 100ms is perceived as instantaneous to everyone but Super Man. A keyboard could have a 20ms latency, and you'd never notice. Low latency on keyboards is a gimmick.

Deck 'boards aren't as nice to type on as, say, a Filco, but they're still better than 99% of rubber domes, and they have backlighting and media keys. That'd be my pick.


----------



## Milkman128

thanks for the replys and suggestions it is appreciated.

I do understand that I wont notice the lower latency but the ideology I'm basing my low latency goal on isn't so much what I'll notice but getting an overall latency advantage on my opponents by trimming fat where ever I can.

"its the worst rubber dome I have ever used"
is it the feel or overall quality that you dont like?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


That would probably have to be dye-sublimated, wouldn't it?


Yeah most likely. Well, it _could_ be dual-shot molded, but then we'd have to pay for them to buy a custom mold. That obviously isn't worth it unless we're ordering tens of thousands of them.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pow3rtr1p*


I would rather it on the Windows Key, personally. Then OCN-Blue WASD Keys on top of that, and a blank keyset besides that.


That doesn't sound too bad either









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Know what would make me fall in love? A backlit Filco keyboard.

Filco Majestouch 104-key NKRO Cherry MX Blues with blue backlighting... Talk about a dream keyboard, eh?











Quote:



Originally Posted by *Milkman128*


I'm in the market for a gaming keyboard and was starting to settle on the razer lycosa due to its 1 ms response time.

It was between the 
lycosa

saitek cyborg
http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/cykey.htm

merc stealth
http://www.amazon.com/Ideazon-Stealt.../dp/B000V62BZU

or logitch G15

in the initial post a claim is made that ultrapolling is pointless because the key will be delayed by 5ms anyway(so the signal begins to transmit @ the beginning of the debounce delay?). Forgive my potential ignorance but... I would think it doesn't send the signal until the switch registers a key press making it a 5ms bounce + 1ms transmit for total latency vs a standard keyboard 5ms bounce + 8ms transmit for total latency.

What is the average delay on a rubber dome switch? sorry if i missed that.

does your recommendation of Deck Keyboards still stand? anything new & great coming out? Low latency is my primary goal, secondary is back lighting.

Great article & thread, I love endless amounts of data when I'm researching a product it makes the process much more enjoyable.


It's 5ms debouncing time for Cherry MX switches ONLY. Each switch needs a certain amount of time, and virtually all mechanical switches are by far better than rubber domes with this. Domes need roughly anywhere from 8ms to 20ms depending on their quality. And today, because companies love to give up quality to keep the the price down (as long as it doesn't interfere with marketing), I'd say that they're closer to 20ms.

Also, 8ms isn't an accurate measure of the latency. That's only the time in between polls. You want to measure the time it takes for the full transmission. So what you want is a PS/2 board, not USB.

PS/2 boards only send key information upon a change of state (once when you press the key, again when you release it), while USB boards have to send all keys with every packet. That's why PS/2 supports full NKRO and USB doesn't.

Ok check it out. Lets assume that you press a key on a PS/2 board. It has to send the following information:

1 start bit
8 data bits
1 parity bit
1 stop bit
1 ack bit
Total: 11 bits

PS/2 boards send 1 bit per clock high, which means that a total of 11 clock cycles are needed to transmit the data. And while some extended keys require more than a single scan code (like the Pause/Break key), even the uberl33t mama's boy doesn't care about those. So let's ignore them.

At 16.7kHz, each clock cycle is 0.058ms. In addition, the clock must remain high for 0.05ms before any data is sent.

So that delay and 11 Clock cycles comes out to a 0.693ms maximum delay for a single keystroke, unless you somehow magically manage to press two keys at the exact same moment in time. In which case the second key is delayed.

This is already faster than just the USB polling rate alone, even at 1000Hz, without even calculating in the protocol overhead (which is extremely large once you factor in all the different layers).


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Milkman128*


thanks for the replys and suggestions it is appreciated.

I do understand that I wont notice the lower latency but the ideology I'm basing my low latency goal on isn't so much what I'll notice but getting an overall latency advantage on my opponents by trimming fat where ever I can.


If you use any half decent ps/2 keyboard, it will be faster then your fingers. The type of switch used in the board will be the only thing you should look at, as the keyboards latency won't make a difference.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

What do you think the odds are that Filco will ever make a backlit keyboard? Because I'm serious, a Filco Majestouch 104-key NKRO Cherry MX Brown with backlighting would be my dream gaming keyboard and probably a really great typing keyboard as well. Probably cost $170-200 though.

Maybe a petition...


----------



## clownfart

Here instead of back lighting you can have this dino Filco board.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

That is amazing. I want one to put on my wall.


----------



## clownfart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Milkman128*


thanks for the replys and suggestions it is appreciated.

I do understand that I wont notice the lower latency but the ideology I'm basing my low latency goal on isn't so much what I'll notice but getting an overall latency advantage on my opponents by trimming fat where ever I can.

"its the worst rubber dome I have ever used" 
is it the feel or overall quality that you dont like?


If you're holding down a key, like say "W" it's very easy to lift up just a little and it will stop registering. You get used to it after a while since in game you can see you stopped moving. But there's some instances, like for me with vent it would cut out without me realizing it.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 

Deck 'boards aren't as nice to type on as, say, a Filco, but they're still better than 99% of rubber domes, and they have backlighting and media keys. That'd be my pick.

Dunno about that. I'd take a tactile Deck Legend over any brown or black-based Filco board. Over a blue..well, maybe not. The contoured keys are indeed nice though, but that's usually a personal thing. It doesn't do much for me, but I suppose for some users it is more important.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn*


Dunno about that. I'd take a tactile Deck Legend over any brown or black-based Filco board. Over a blue..well, maybe not. The contoured keys are indeed nice though, but that's usually a personal thing. It doesn't do much for me, but I suppose for some users it is more important.


And this is why it's impossible to tell someone flat out which keyboard they'd like the best. You can make some good guesses depending on what they _say_ they want, but it's absolutely impossible to be certain until they've tried it.

When it comes to manufacturing differences (type and thickness of the plastic, if there's a metal plate or not, if it's heavy enough not to move around, things like that) then yes, you can say as a fact that Keyboard A is better than Keyboard B. But even so, at the end of the day someone can still come around and say "even though Keyboard B isn't as good in these things, I like the way it feels a LOT better".

Now, all that being said, certain keyboards are still better recommendations for people who've never used mechanical boards than others. Between Filcos and Decks, for example, most people tend to like Blues and Browns over Whites, simply because they are lighter and a lot of people are trying to reduce fatigue as much as they can. So without knowing a single thing about that person's preference or what they want to do with it, I'd think they have a better chance with the Filco than with a Deck.


----------



## rfjunkie

I've been in search of the perfect keyboard for a while now... I used to really like the ones with the laptop style keys... Then I started using the Filco B-stock Tenkeyless boards. I like the Filco for its size, but the tactile break on the b-stock is kind of heavy. Will be getting a Filco with Cherry Blue switches soon.

But for now, I've got a Happy Hacker lite 2 that is supposed to be showing up tomorrow, and will be giving that I try on my "Daily Driver" for a while. Not sure if I'm going to be able to get used to where the key placement is on some of the keys on the Happy Hacker.

I should have a Model M showing up soon too. (eBay) I think I will be taking the Model M to work and tossing out the Microsoft keyboard that I use there now. It's a P.O.S.... Our IT guy at work swears by the Microsoft keyboards, just because the ones he gets are PS2.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rfjunkie*


I've been in search of the perfect keyboard for a while now... I used to really like the ones with the laptop style keys... Then I started using the Filco B-stock Tenkeyless boards. I like the Filco for its size, but the tactile break on the b-stock is kind of heavy. Will be getting a Filco with Cherry Blue switches soon.

But for now, I've got a Happy Hacker lite 2 that is supposed to be showing up tomorrow, and will be giving that I try on my "Daily Driver" for a while. Not sure if I'm going to be able to get used to where the key placement is on some of the keys on the Happy Hacker.

I should have a Model M showing up soon too. (eBay) I think I will be taking the Model M to work and tossing out the Microsoft keyboard that I use there now. It's a P.O.S.... Our IT guy at work swears by the Microsoft keyboards, just because the ones he gets are PS2.


Just an FYI, but the HHKB Lite is absolutely terrible. The domes it has are _nothing_ like the capacitive ones in the HHKB Pro and Realforces.


----------



## rfjunkie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Just an FYI, but the HHKB Lite is absolutely terrible. The domes it has are _nothing_ like the capacitive ones in the HHKB Pro and Realforces.


I'm just going to be giving it a try... It just showed up a little bit ago. not sure how I'm going to like it.... The backspace key is in a bad sot... It's one row down from normal. I keep hitting the wrong key when going for it.

It feels better than some of the domes that I have felt. I might end up just using it for a little bit and adding it to the pile of keyboards I have sitting around already. Thats if I cannot get used to some of the key placements on it. I'm really picky on where my backspace is and the size of the enter and backspace key. I like the larger BS key and the smaller enter key. Not the one that is "L" shaped.

Now I'm rambling just to give this keyboard a try...









Looks like I'm still in search of the perfect compact keyboard... I will have to check elite keyboard's site here soon and see if they have the Filco's with the blues in stock yet...

Thanks again for your input Manyak. (But for a dome keyboard, this thing really feels better than the Microsoft keyboard at work, Which isn't that hard to do.)


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rfjunkie*


I'm just going to be giving it a try... It just showed up a little bit ago. not sure how I'm going to like it.... The backspace key is in a bad sot... It's one row down from normal. I keep hitting the wrong key when going for it.

It feels better than some of the domes that I have felt. I might end up just using it for a little bit and adding it to the pile of keyboards I have sitting around already. Thats if I cannot get used to some of the key placements on it. I'm really picky on where my backspace is and the size of the enter and backspace key. I like the larger BS key and the smaller enter key. Not the one that is "L" shaped.

Now I'm rambling just to give this keyboard a try...









Looks like I'm still in search of the perfect compact keyboard... I will have to check elite keyboard's site here soon and see if they have the Filco's with the blues in stock yet...

Thanks again for your input Manyak. (But for a dome keyboard, this thing really feels better than the Microsoft keyboard at work, Which isn't that hard to do.)


lol well, I guess I can give it that much at least (especially since I imagine the one at your job is already pretty worn out). But still, if you do end up liking the layout, just know that their capacitive switches are a million times better - at the same level of quality and feel as mechanical switches.


----------



## Ragsters

I don't think it is fair that OP is not recommending the Das keyboard "due to badly designed controller". Are you sure they still have the issues with the release of the Model S?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ragsters* 
I don't think it is fair that OP is not recommending the Das keyboard "due to badly designed controller". Are you sure they still have the issues with the release of the Model S?

That post was written before the Model S was released, and so far there isn't any real information about it for me to include anyway. The only piece of information I have is that it was recalled due to problems too (except I have no idea what problems it had this time). And because of their past problems, I'm hesitant to put it up until I see proof of it working.

But for the Das III Pro, I don't think it's unfair at all. I can't recommend a keyboard that I know has problems with speed. It's like recommending a Bentley that won't go over 50mph (it looks nice, but is useless and a huge waste of money). Even the CEO of Das acknowledged the problem and offered a refund to anyone who typed fast enough to see it.

But hey, if you like it that much that you don't mind taking the risk of keyboard-induced typos, then by all means go for it.


----------



## Ragsters

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
That post was written before the Model S was released, and so far there isn't any real information about it for me to include anyway. The only piece of information I have is that it was recalled due to problems too (except I have no idea what problems it had this time). And because of their past problems, I'm hesitant to put it up until I see proof of it working.

But for the Das III Pro, I don't think it's unfair at all. I can't recommend a keyboard that I know has problems with speed. It's like recommending a Bentley that won't go over 50mph (it looks nice, but is useless and a huge waste of money). Even the CEO of Das acknowledged the problem and offered a refund to anyone who typed fast enough to see it.

But hey, if you like it that much that you don't mind taking the risk of keyboard-induced typos, then by all means go for it.

Well then maybe you should edit the thread to say that there has been improvements since the the older model where they were supposed to have fixed the older issues but it is too new for you to recommend it to anyone. Also here is a review where they talk about the recall and what Das has done to fix it.
http://skattertech.com/2009/11/das-k...-professional/


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ragsters* 
Well then maybe you should edit the thread to say that there has been improvements since the the older model where they were supposed to have fixed the older issues but it is to new for you to recommend it to anyone. Also here is a review where they talk about the recall and what Das has done to fix it.
http://skattertech.com/2009/11/das-k...-professional/

At least the recall fixed something then, I'll give them that much.

But read this:

Quote:

As with the earlier model, the new Das Keyboard S Professional maintains its advertised guarantee of quality with precision, speed, and comfort.
That's fine and all, except the earlier model FAILED on it's guarantee of precision and speed, and this reviewer doesn't even know it. He doesn't even mention the switches anywhere. And he didn't do any tests to see if the transposition problems were still there.

It's obvious that either the reviewer simply doesn't know much about mechanical boards (or the Das he's reviewing), or he was paid to make it sound pretty.

Sorry, but that review doesn't say much of anything other than about the recall.


----------



## timw4mail

Perhaps this is more insightful?
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:8300


----------



## Ragsters

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
Perhaps this is more insightful?
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:8300

Thanks timw4mail,

This is actually the review that talked me into getting mine and I couldn't be happier.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


Perhaps this is more insightful?
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:8300


I should start visiting geekhack again.

Either way the review didn't say much, but at least he cleared it up in the discussion. So I guess the new Das ist gud.


----------



## soloz2

I figured I'd post here... Seriously considering a mechanical keyboard in my near future. I've spent the last week researching and reading forums and I think I want to get a board with cherry browns or clears. I'm also thinking that a tenkeyless board would be really nice. I don't use the ten keys often and I could really use the extra space for my big 'ol mousepad.

I've been looking at different options and I think the FILCO tenkeyless looks the best due to being a standard layout, most of the other 'compact' or tenkeyless boards I've seen haven't been a standard layout. But before I shell out $$$ for a keyboard does anyone have any other boards I should look at?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The Filco tenkeyless is probably what I'd pick, hard to beat them for quality when you want Cherry MX switches.


----------



## Ragsters

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
I figured I'd post here... Seriously considering a mechanical keyboard in my near future. I've spent the last week researching and reading forums and I think I want to get a board with cherry browns or clears. I'm also thinking that a tenkeyless board would be really nice. I don't use the ten keys often and I could really use the extra space for my big 'ol mousepad.

I've been looking at different options and I think the FILCO tenkeyless looks the best due to being a standard layout, most of the other 'compact' or tenkeyless boards I've seen haven't been a standard layout. But before I shell out $$$ for a keyboard does anyone have any other boards I should look at?

I think the Filco is the way to go with your needs.


----------



## soloz2

That's what I was thinking... Don't really want to drop so much though... Wasd keycaps and a wrist rest all add up!


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Unfortunately, mechanical keyboards fall into three categories:

$0-50: used Model Ms and similar
$50-90: ABS M1, Unicomp Customizer, iRocks KR-6230
$90+: everything else

Actually, the iRocks KR-6230 might be a good fit for you, usually goes for around $90, uses Cherry MX Browns, and though it isn't tenkeyless it's still more compact than the average keyboard. Unfortunately it has a nonstandard layout. And it isn't as nice as the Filco.


----------



## clownfart

Check this keyboard out...

http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=1...postcount=2496


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Unfortunately, mechanical keyboards fall into three categories:

$0-50: used Model Ms and similar
$50-90: ABS M1, Unicomp Customizer, iRocks KR-6230
$90+: everything else

Actually, the iRocks KR-6230 might be a good fit for you, usually goes for around $90, uses Cherry MX Browns, and though it isn't tenkeyless it's still more compact than the average keyboard. Unfortunately it has a nonstandard layout. And it isn't as nice as the Filco.


so I've noticed. I did take a good look at the iRocks board, but decided against it due to the non-standard layout. It's the same with the tenkeyless Deck board, I would really like another backlit board, but want a standard layout.


----------



## Manyak

Just as you figured, your best bet is with the Filco. The only other board I can think of with Cherry Browns and a standard layout is the Cherry G80, but that only comes in full size.


----------



## soloz2

I'm curious why blues are rated higher for gaming. on geekhack, which is where I've done most of my reading they seem to prefer browns or blacks for gaming, and browns seem to be the clear winner between browns and blacks for typing... so I figured browns would be a good 'general' purpose gaming/browsing/typing board.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


I'm curious why blues are rated higher for gaming. on geekhack, which is where I've done most of my reading they seem to prefer browns or blacks for gaming, and browns seem to be the clear winner between browns and blacks for typing... so I figured browns would be a good 'general' purpose gaming/browsing/typing board.


As I said in the OP, it's just my own preference. Besides the usual stuff there are only two differences between blues and browns with gaming:

1 - With blues, the release point is not the same as the actuation point. You have to let it go a bit higher than the bump for it to release. This is the main reason they are considered worse than browns, but in reality if you don't play any games that require double-tapping (like Unreal Tournament) then you'd never know. But with the others - Browns, Blacks, Whites - the two points are the same.

2 - They are clicky, so if you're playing at a LAN you're basically telling everyone there what you're doing the entire time.


----------



## IEATFISH

I'll just leave this here as well:

http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ease-read.html


----------



## lmnop

I received my steelseries 7G a couple days ago in the mail. it took so long because of holiday service and there must of been a problem because they slapped a stick-on on my door and told me to go pick it up at the post office. when I unboxed it and plugged it in it wouldn't work so I called NCIX and instead of returning it I got my money back. I liked the switches but the modifier keys felt a bit hard I think it might have to do with the stabilizers. I didn't like the wrist rest because it was too big for my desk. i'm sorry I won't be able to do that test Manyak. I asked 2 people who got a steelseries 7G for Christmas before me but none ended up doing it. I think I am going to get a steelseries xai or a Filco. I haven't decided.


----------



## clownfart

DOA keyboard? Sucks.

I'm using a Xai and Filco right now, both great. Tough choice.


----------



## lmnop

it wouldn't power up I tried other usb ports.


----------



## Holyaxe

I got my Das Keyboard Model S Ultimate today, this thing is great =)


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I received my steelseries 7G a couple days ago in the mail. it took so long because of holiday service and there must of been a problem because they slapped a stick-on on my door and told me to go pick it up at the post office. when I unboxed it and plugged it in it wouldn't work so I called NCIX and instead of returning it I got my money back. I liked the switches but the modifier keys felt a bit hard I think it might have to do with the stabilizers. I didn't like the wrist rest because it was too big for my desk. i'm sorry I won't be able to do that test Manyak. I asked 2 people who got a steelseries 7G for Christmas before me but none ended up doing it. I think I am going to get a steelseries xai or a Filco. I haven't decided.


Well that blows. But hey at least now you were able to try the switches AND you have a whole keyboard to harvest them off of if you ever need to fix a different one.


----------



## Izvire

I'm getting an Steelseries 7G for review next week, I'll post a link when its done


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I received my steelseries 7G a couple days ago in the mail. it took so long because of holiday service and there must of been a problem because they slapped a stick-on on my door and told me to go pick it up at the post office. when I unboxed it and plugged it in it wouldn't work so I called NCIX and instead of returning it I got my money back. I liked the switches but the modifier keys felt a bit hard I think it might have to do with the stabilizers. I didn't like the wrist rest because it was too big for my desk. i'm sorry I won't be able to do that test Manyak. I asked 2 people who got a steelseries 7G for Christmas before me but none ended up doing it. I think I am going to get a steelseries xai or a Filco. I haven't decided.



I would like to purchase some keycaps from you, at least the number/symbol caps.


----------



## SSGTroyer

I am in the market for a keyboard, and I can't seem to find the perfect ONE. I'm wondering if you can help me.

In short, I'm looking for a backlit multimedia keyboard that's very well-built and has tactile response. Pass-through USB and volume controls are also high on the priority list&#8230;in fact, I won't consider a keyboard without them. I guess that's the "multimedia" part of my requirements. Backlighting would be nice, but mechanical switches are of the highest priority.

So:
1.Well built. Can take a beating. We breed GSDs, so I want this thing to be able to survive being knocked off the desk and stepped on by a 80lb dog&#8230;
2.104 mechanical switches, minimum. I've lived with membranes too long, and the numpad is part of my life&#8230;
3.Pass-through USB port(s) and volume control so I don't have to reach the 5 feet to the back of my desk to adjust the volume.
4.Backlit.

Price is little to no object. The Optimus is too much, but I'll consider anything under $400...

Can you help me? Thanks for your time...


----------



## Evil-Jester

hey guys im looking into getting the Deck Legend - 105 Keys, Ice (linear) i mostly game with fps. any reason why i should or should not get this keyboard? also i need it to be backlit thats why im looking at Deck keyboards


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SSGTroyer* 
I am in the market for a keyboard, and I canâ€™t seem to find the perfect ONE. Iâ€™m wondering if you can help me.

In short, Iâ€™m looking for a backlit multimedia keyboard thatâ€™s very well-built and has tactile response. Pass-through USB and volume controls are also high on the priority listâ€¦in fact, I wonâ€™t consider a keyboard without them. I guess thatâ€™s the â€œmultimediaâ€ part of my requirements. Backlighting would be nice, but mechanical switches are of the highest priority.

So:
1.Well built. Can take a beating. We breed GSDs, so I want this thing to be able to survive being knocked off the desk and stepped on by a 80lb dogâ€¦
2.104 mechanical switches, minimum. Iâ€™ve lived with membranes too long, and the numpad is part of my lifeâ€¦
3.Pass-through USB port(s) and volume control so I donâ€™t have to reach the 5 feet to the back of my desk to adjust the volume.
4.Backlit.

Price is little to no object. The Optimus is too much, but I'll consider anything under $400...

Can you help me? Thanks for your time...

Unfortunately you're going to have to do one of two things: either compromise, or mod the keyboard. There isn't a single backlit mechanical keyboard with media keys. The Das S (Cherry Blues) has media keys and a USB hub, and the Deck (Cherry Blacks or Whites) has backlighting.

Whichever you pick you can mod in the missing option. To put backlighting in the Das you'd have to install the LEDs on the switches (each cherry switch has a place to put them) and buy custom keycaps to let the light through (google signature plastics or fentek). To mod the Deck you'd just have to buy a mini USB hub and any old membrane keyboards, and put the hub and media keys in yourself.

So pick whichever option is easiest for you







.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evil-Jester* 
hey guys im looking into getting the Deck Legend - 105 Keys, Ice (linear) i mostly game with fps. any reason why i should or should not get this keyboard? also i need it to be backlit thats why im looking at Deck keyboards

The only thing you need to know is that most people don't enjoy typing on Linear switches. You may be one of the few that do, but if you're disappointed don't be surprised







. Either way, Deck offers a full refund if you don't like it, and you can always switch to the tactile version (same stiffness as the linears, but with a tactile bump).


----------



## Evil-Jester

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
same stiffness as the linears, but with a tactile bump

do you think you could explain a little more in detail the difference i dont understand the "bump" your talking about


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evil-Jester* 
do you think you could explain a little more in detail the difference i dont understand the "bump" your talking about

Unlike rubber domes, mechanical switches don't need to be pressed all the way to the bottom for them to actuate. More specifically, the Cherry MX switches used in the Deck only need to pressed down halfway. So what they do is they put a little bump in at that point so that you can feel when you've hit it. But linear switches don't have that bump.

For almost all people, that bump (and sometimes a click) is a very good feedback mechanism so that they're always sure when they've pressed each key. With linear switches you're left with no feedback at all.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Unlike rubber domes, mechanical switches don't need to be pressed all the way to the bottom for them to actuate. More specifically, the Cherry MX switches used in the Deck only need to pressed down halfway. So what they do is they put a little bump in at that point so that you can feel when you've hit it. But linear switches don't have that bump.

For almost all people, that bump (and sometimes a click) is a very good feedback mechanism so that they're always sure when they've pressed each key. With linear switches you're left with no feedback at all.

It's not just to know you've hit the key; for some reason the click feels good when typing.

However I prefer the linear for gaming


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
It's not just to know you've hit the key; for some reason the click feels good when typing.

However I prefer the linear for gaming

Agreed.


----------



## Evil-Jester

well im not a typer im a finger pecker and im damn fast at it lol and i do ALOT of gaming so when i do buy one i think i will go for linear and if i dont like it i can always send it back also and a nother note? has anyone used the 82 key deck?? how is that for gaming? also what type of keys do they use?


----------



## lmnop

the Deck Legend 82 uses Cherry MX Black Linear switches. every keycap is made out of polyester except for the spacebar which is made out of standard abs. the keycaps are also double shot molded and the legends are sub-dye printed.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 

However I prefer the linear for gaming

I thought I did as well, until I felt a Cherry White switch. Same stiff feeling with a noticeable but not overly pronounced tactile bump. Very nice for typing, and still excellent for games.


----------



## lmnop

there is a nice deal on eBay a guy is selling a lot of 10 brand new Cherry G84-4100 keyboards for $18 USD. they use Cherry ML Switches I don't know much about them but they are very low force and have a low activation point. Manyak can fill you in. if you are familiar with the Deck Legend 82 it has a similar layout if not the same. it has an AT connection in the picture but says PS/2 in any case you can buy a AT to PS/2 converter for under $5 USD.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
there is a nice deal on eBay a guy is selling a lot of 10 brand new Cherry G84-4100 keyboards for $18 USD. they use Cherry ML Switches I don't know much about them but they are very low force and have a low activation point. Manyak can fill you in. if you are familiar with the Deck Legend 82 it has a similar layout if not the same. it has an AT connection in the picture but says PS/2 in any case you can buy a AT to PS/2 converter for under $5 USD.

I actually have two of those. The switches feel pretty nice, but the keys/spacing are smaller than normal (think netbook) and if you hit them too far off center they won't go down. If you want something for a rarely used computer that doesn't take up room then they fit the bill perfectly, but other than that don't even bother IMO.


----------



## Hanjin

Just received this from the post this morning brand spanking new sealed in box along with cover:





































Not bad for $15 AUD.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hanjin* 
Just received this from the post this morning brand spanking new sealed in box along with cover:










Sweet, I loved those old things. I remember one being offered for old Macintosh systems that has a touchpad integrated into the palm rest, though I never got to see how well those worked.


----------



## Ikrin

What company is that from? An ergonomic mechanical keyboard?


----------



## Hanjin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


What company is that from? An ergonomic mechanical keyboard?


Its the Chicony KB-7001.


----------



## Hanjin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Sweet, I loved those old things. I remember one being offered for old Macintosh systems that has a touchpad integrated into the palm rest, though I never got to see how well those worked.


Yeah I remember my Uncle owning one of these and was surprised too see it on ebay for so cheap and brand spanking new for $10 Aussie dollars.


----------



## LainKura

Scored a NOS blue label Model M 1391401 (The non-cost-cutting design) for 35USD shipped.

I am quite proud of my self ^_^


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hanjin*


Yeah I remember my Uncle owning one of these and was surprised too see it on ebay for so cheap and brand spanking new for $10 Aussie dollars.


Wow nice find. How do the keyswitches feel?


----------



## smash_mouth01

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hanjin* 
Just received this from the post this morning brand spanking new sealed in box along with cover:










Not bad for $15 AUD.


I got mine for free, but not new not by a long shot.
I modded it also, I put a new PS2 cable on it and gave it a black paint job.


----------



## tombom

Guhhh. I think my keyboard is broke. It's spamming shift commands and I can't operate. Any idea what's going on?


----------



## Hanjin

Decided to paint the sucker:


----------



## Evil-Jester

o0o0o0o0o that looks way better then the stock color







now dye your keys and make it look AWESOMO lol also +rep for coolness


----------



## Hanjin

Haha yeah going to look around for some black dye today and make my keys blank Das style.


----------



## IEATFISH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hanjin* 
Haha yeah going to look around for some black dye today and make my keys blank Das style.

Don't know if you've seen this...but here it is:

http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ion-guide.html


----------



## silentpuss

nice guide...I use a filco. =D


----------



## olli3

hanjin that looks great







what did you paint it with?


----------



## Hanjin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *olli3* 
hanjin that looks great







what did you paint it with?

Used some Tamiya paint and Tamiya top coat.


----------



## Hanjin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IEATFISH* 
Don't know if you've seen this...but here it is:

http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ion-guide.html

Thanks for the link just got to find a place that sells Rit dye in Australia.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hanjin* 
Haha yeah going to look around for some black dye today and make my keys blank Das style.

From all the reviews they say that the Das gets dirty so quicky due to its glossy black, so it may not be good to paint your keys like them.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
From all the reviews they say that the Das gets dirty so quicky due to its glossy black, so it may not be good to paint your keys like them.

The glossy back is on the body of the keyboard, not the keys. Anyways his point was to blank out the letters on the keys, which probably won't be done with glossy black.


----------



## LIU_ZOMG

i'm realyl confused as to what a mechanical keyboard is... like how to i set them apart from teh ordinary keyboard? =SS

ill upload a pic soon of my keyboard - it's a logitech s520 if that helps - i've also got a Benq keyboard which makes a clicky noise when you type and i got an ibm keyboard somewhere which sounds like a chopping board and a microsoft multimedia keyboard

*actually dw i looked into my s520 and it was a rubber dome, the benq was a scissor and the microsoft was a rubber... i'm going to look for my ibm*

*ohh god i realised i sold my ibm keyboard lol. it looked like this keyboard







*


----------



## Crazy9000

The mechanical keyboards don't have a rubber membrane under the keys. You can tell pretty quickly by popping off a key and looking. It's fine to just pop a key off on most keyboards unless they are low profile laptop type.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
The mechanical keyboards don't have a rubber membrane under the keys. You can tell pretty quickly by popping off a key and looking. It's fine to just pop a key off on most keyboards unless they are low profile laptop type.

You mean most laptop keyboards, unless they're off Lenovo laptops... Those are a real pain to put back on, and the scissor switches are too fragile. Wish there were oleophobic keyboards...


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LIU_ZOMG* 
i'm realyl confused as to what a mechanical keyboard is... like how to i set them apart from teh ordinary keyboard? =SS

ill upload a pic soon of my keyboard - it's a logitech s520 if that helps - i've also got a Benq keyboard which makes a clicky noise when you type and i got an ibm keyboard somewhere which sounds like a chopping board and a microsoft multimedia keyboard

*actually dw i looked into my s520 and it was a rubber dome, the benq was a scissor and the microsoft was a rubber... i'm going to look for my ibm*

*ohh god i realised i sold my ibm keyboard lol. it looked like this keyboard







*

That's not a mechnical keyboad, if that's what you're getting at.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ikrin* 
You mean most laptop keyboards, unless they're off Lenovo laptops... Those are a real pain to put back on, and the scissor switches are too fragile. Wish there were oleophobic keyboards...

Oh yeah laptop keyboards especially. Not only are the keys a pain to get back on, but you can break something if you just blindly pop them off like you would a desktop key. My point was that some of the low profile desktop keyboards are probably similar.


----------



## LIU_ZOMG

seems like i don't own a mechanical keyboard =\\

but i swear i have had a mechanical keyboard in my household before... it looked like this the brown "+" it was probably on my family's first pc









would the difference b/w a scissor switch and rubber dome be significant?
if so - ima steal my sister's keyboard until i find a mechanical keyboard


----------



## Ikrin

Scissor switches employ rubber domes to register keystrokes.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LIU_ZOMG* 
would the difference b/w a scissor switch and rubber dome be significant?
if so - ima steal my sister's keyboard until i find a mechanical keyboard

It's a matter of preference and the switches themselves. Like with any type of switches, there will be ones that you really like and ones you can't stand. Sure you can get into which is technically better, but comfort > all.


----------



## Thran

Odd question but what type of switch is for me if I prefer switches like Omron switches like in arcade machines?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Thran* 
Odd question but what type of switch is for me if I prefer switches like Omron switches like in arcade machines?

Those are microswitches, and if you want a keyboard with them you'll have to build it on your own. Read this.


----------



## Izvire

Got the Steelseries 7G today. Amazing. Easily the best keyboard I've ever used. I made a review on it in a Finnish forum, google translated it if someone wants to take a peak









http://translate.google.com/translat...ml&sl=fi&tl=en


----------



## pow3rtr1p

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Those are microswitches, and if you want a keyboard with them you'll have to build it on your own. Read this.

Tommy Chong makes keyboards?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Wow thats a lot of work!

Here's your chance to own a filco:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fancy-Filco-Keyb...#ht_500wt_1182


----------



## cd_rom

I notice http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_search.asp?SG=10021 have stock available for one of those filco majetouch keyboards!! Im gonna order one but not sure which one i need to go for? what is a fundamental difference between them??


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The "tactile" one has Cherry MX Brown switches. It has a very light keypress and a tactile bump (the amount of force required increases just a little bit before the switch activates, then drops off so you know the keystroke was registered). This is a good keyboard for both gaming and typing.

The "click" one has Cherry MX Blue switches. They take a fraction more pressure than the Browns but still have a tactile bump. In addition they also make a clicky noise when the switch activates. These are probably some of the best typing keyswitches around, but not so great for gaming.

The "linear" ones use Cherry MX Black switches. These have a very heavy keypress (twice as much force as the MX Blues, more even than the IBM buckling springs). They have no tactile bump; the force required is the same all the way down. Many people like these for gaming, but they are usually a literal pain to type on for extended periods of time.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
wow thats a lot of work!

Here's your chance to own a filco:

http://cgi.ebay.com/fancy-filco-keyb...#ht_500wt_1182

lol?


----------



## LainKura

Today in the mail arrived my model M (least to say I rushed out the door as fast as I could when I heard the truck honk).
The box said international business machines, and had something quite heavy inside it... I carefully open the box at the seams and find inside a styrofoam holder, and inside of that... a NEVER USED 1391401 Blue-Label Model M in absolutely PERFECT condition! I really cannot find one blemish on it aside from the fact that it came with a detachable AT cable vs. PS2 (though it did come with an adapter which mostly nullifies that complaint).

I am typing on it atm and am happy as a clam ^_^
Best 35 I ever spent.

*Pictures when I get over how awesome this board is and stop being lazy*


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Nice! What's the date on it? I think the AT versions were from '85-86.


----------



## cd_rom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
The "tactile" one has Cherry MX Brown switches. It has a very light keypress and a tactile bump (the amount of force required increases just a little bit before the switch activates, then drops off so you know the keystroke was registered). This is a good keyboard for both gaming and typing.

The "click" one has Cherry MX Blue switches. They take a fraction more pressure than the Browns but still have a tactile bump. In addition they also make a clicky noise when the switch activates. These are probably some of the best typing keyswitches around, but not so great for gaming.

The "linear" ones use Cherry MX Black switches. These have a very heavy keypress (twice as much force as the MX Blues, more even than the IBM buckling springs). They have no tactile bump; the force required is the same all the way down. Many people like these for gaming, but they are usually a literal pain to type on for extended periods of time.

Thx, i just order the Cherry MX tactile one!


----------



## Thran

Maybe I should rephrase the question. Are there any keyboards out there now that have the tactile feel of a microswitch? Thank you for the response tho interesting read but very much out of my price range with omrons being so expensive.


----------



## LainKura

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Nice! What's the date on it? I think the AT versions were from '85-86.

It's a 1994 Blue-Label/Lexmark made version, though it uses the original 1391401 design instead of the cost cutting 42H1292 version.

I wonder if maybe the person who ordered this put in a special order to include an AT cable vs a PS2 because they were using an AT computer? But that doesn't make a whole lot of sense considering it's never been used.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LainKura* 
Today in the mail arrived my model M (least to say I rushed out the door as fast as I could when I heard the truck honk).
The box said international business machines, and had something quite heavy inside it... I carefully open the box at the seams and find inside a styrofoam holder, and inside of that... a NEVER USED 1391401 Blue-Label Model M in absolutely PERFECT condition! I really cannot find one blemish on it aside from the fact that it came with a detachable AT cable vs. PS2 (though it did come with an adapter which mostly nullifies that complaint).

I am typing on it atm and am happy as a clam ^_^
Best 35 I ever spent.

*Pictures when I get over how awesome this board is and stop being lazy*

You can actually order an SDL->PS/2 cable from unicomp if the AT plug annoys you







.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Thran* 
Maybe I should rephrase the question. Are there any keyboards out there now that have the tactile feel of a microswitch? Thank you for the response tho interesting read but very much out of my price range with omrons being so expensive.

The closest switch I've felt to those would have to be the SMKs on the Chicony KB-5181 (it can come with circle or square stems, you want the square ones). Cherry blues would be second.


----------



## LainKura

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
You can actually order an SDL->PS/2 cable from unicomp if the AT plug annoys you









Well the cable and adaptor do not annoy me per-say, but I think the use of the adapter is messing with my LEDs as they do not light up (plus this cable is straight and you cannot top the awesome factor of a coiled keyboard cable xD)


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


lol?


Looks like the listing was removed. It was selling a filco used by someone for 500 usd.


----------



## lmnop

Manyak can you check this post.

need closure









Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Manyak can you check this post.

need closure









Christine

Yes the ABS M1 and Filco Zero with ***kas do have key transposition problems similar to the Das III. But I've never heard of the Filco not working on PS/2.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Yes the ABS M1 and Filco Zero with ***kas do have key transposition problems similar to the Das III. But I've never heard of the Filco not working on PS/2.


no the ABS M1 has problems with a PS/2 adapter. so all Costar did was change the switches they didn't fix anything else?

Christine


----------



## Dolan

I have heard that the texture on the buttons on the Deck keyboard doesn't wear off, is it the same with the steelseries 7g?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
no the ABS M1 has problems with a PS/2 adapter. so all Costar did was change the switches they didn't fix anything else?

Christine

Well they never said the M1 would work with PS/2, it's advertised as USB only. So you can't count that as a problem, it's just their design choice.

But the transposition problems only happened on those boards AFAIK. The older Filco Zeros (XM switches) didn't have the problem, and neither do the Cherry-based ones. And the new Das S doesn't get those errors anymore, so they at least fixed that.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dolan* 
I have heard that the texture on the buttons on the Deck keyboard doesn't wear off, is it the same with the steelseries 7g?

yes. Deck Legend keycaps are sublimated printed. steelseries keycaps are laser etched.

Christine


----------



## Dolan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
yes. Deck Legend keycaps are sublimated printed. steelseries keycaps are laser etched.

Christine

Okey, thanks! so it should be safe to get the 7g, with it's quality?


----------



## lmnop

yes.

we need more Deck and steelseries owners









Christine


----------



## Izvire

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
yes.

we need more Deck and steelseries owners









Christine

Reporting in, Steelseries 7g owner,


----------



## Dolan

haha, yea! but it's sad that i can't get the Deck's keyboards without paying more than twice as much as it's real price because of the shipping prices and taxes :/


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


yes.

we need more Deck and steelseries owners









Christine


Deck Legend Frost here.


----------



## yawnbox

some news:
*Review of Das Keyboard Model S Professional*
http://www.testfreaks.com/blog/revie...-professional/

Quote:



The main difference though is that the Model S version now includes multi-media keys for quick access to volume, ply, pause, stop, forward and back. These new keys are accessed by using the FN or function key like you would on your laptop and they truly do add functionality and usability to the Das Keyboard. So continue on to learn more&#8230;



Quote:



Das Keyboard Model S Professional

Das Keyboard Model S Professional sports high end mechanical key switches and 2-port USB 2.0 hub. The newly redesigned electronics provides full N-key rollover and media functions.

*Specifications*:
Das Keyboard has been designed for people who spend many hours a day working on a computer and for whom typing productivity and comfort matters.

Both Das Keyboard Professional and Ultimate models are identical except that the Ultimate is a blank keyboard (there are no inscriptions on the keys).

German-engineered mechanical key switches:
Das Keyboard compares to the legendary IBM model M. Its best-in-class mechanical gold-plated key switches provide a tactile and audio click that makes typing a pure joy.


----------



## Manyak

I love this part:

Quote:



Das Keyboard compares to the legendary IBM model M. Its best-in-class mechanical gold-plated key switches provide a tactile and audio click that makes typing a pure joy.


The way they say it kind of sounds like comparing a BMW M3 to a Hummer H1 (you can guess which represents the IBM







). Sure they're both great, but they're also so different from each other that putting them together in a sentence like this just sounds funny.


----------



## lmnop

with the Das Model S Media Keys all you are paying for are the legends on the F1-9 keys because they turned the left Windows Key into a Function Key. AutoHotKey can do the same thing. silly.

looks like the Model S has a new finish on it no more black sheen like the previous series.

I like this part

Quote:



German-engineered mechanical key switches:
Das Keyboard compares to the legendary IBM model M. Its best-in-class mechanical gold-plated key switches provide a tactile and audio click that makes typing a pure joy.


that's about all that is german about it









Deck Legend 105/82 and steelseries 7g need more owners. pretty soon I am going to have to create some Haiti adoption ads.

Christine


----------



## Dolan

i've just ordered the Steelseries 7G, i'll hope it's good








Edit:Someone knows if the laser etched button texture rub off?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dolan* 
i've just ordered the Steelseries 7G, i'll hope it's good








Edit:Someone knows if the laser etched button texture rub off?

no they don't. the legends are physically engraved like this.










Christine


----------



## brodie337

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


yes. Deck Legend keycaps are sublimated printed. steelseries keycaps are laser etched.

Christine


I don't think this is correct.

I'm think Deck use double shot keycaps on any backlit keyboards (all of their range?).

Correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *brodie337*


I don't think this is correct.

I'm think Deck use double shot keycaps on any backlit keyboards (all of their range?).

Correct me if I'm wrong.


You're wrong.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *brodie337*


I don't think this is correct.

I'm think Deck use double shot keycaps on any backlit keyboards (all of their range?).

Correct me if I'm wrong.


actually it's both.

from geekhack.

Quote:



They double-shot-mold a piece of translucent plastic into a piece of black plastic, then they dye-sublimate the "negative" of the legend on each cap, so the only visible part of the translucent plastic left is the legend itself.

I hope that made some kind of sense. I'm not sure why the don't just double-shot the character into the key, but it might cost more to create molds with their funky font than doing this, seemingly, more complex process.


from deck.

Quote:



2. Keycaps are made of Polyester (PBT) except the spacebar which is ABS.

Best Regards,
Adam Martin
IT Administrator/Webmaster
TG3 Electronics, Inc.
http://www.tg3electronics.com

[email protected]
PH: (262)652-2626
FX: (262)652-2121



Quote:



Will the letters on the keycaps wear off eventually?

NEVER! Characters can't chip off the key caps or wear down because we use a sublimated negative printing process which drives the ink into the plastic keycaps at 525Â°F. This means permanent printing from the inside out, not just on the top, and gives the letters a permanent place inside the plastic.


TG3 82 Model










Quote:



Important Features

* Low cost
* Low profile, full size keys
* Tactile full travel key switches for superior feel vs. rubber keys
* LED backlighting good for life of product (200,000 hr LED's = 22yrs. continuous on)
* Standard red backlighting (Other colors available, please contact factory)
* Black keycaps with backlit legends - *unique 2 shot and sublimated proces*s (patent pending)
* Water resistant splash guard (Mil Std 810 compliantÂ² from top side)
* FCC, UL, CE, and RoHS compliantÂ²
* Large backlit characters for ease of viewing

Mechanical Specifications

* 82 key compact design
* Overall dimensions: 12 in x 6 in x 1.5 in (305 mm x 152 mm x 38 mm)
* Weight: 2 lbs (907 g)
* 50 million cycle key switches with gold contacts
* Temperature:
Storage: -55Â°C to +85Â°C
Operating: -40Â°C to +70Â°C
* Plastic injection molded top with metal bottom for ease of customizing mounting techniques

Electrical Specifications

* +5VDC @ 220mA typical with red backlighting. Current consumption depends on LED color. Consult factory for details.
* Interface: USB and PS2 (Other interfaces possible, please consult factory)
* Radiated immunity: 20 volts/meter
* Dimming has eight levels of intensity controlled by "Fn" + "Ã˜" - "7" keys or "Fn" Up/Down cursor keys


so final answer. they are double-shot molded, made out of polyester which is a soft, high impact plastic and the printing is sublimated dye.

if it wasn't for the font these would probably be the best keycaps you can get.

Christine


----------



## Dolan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


no they don't. the legends are physically engraved like this.










Christine


Okey, but i've heard that some people have problem with their buttons rubbing of on the 7g, but i'll hope you're right


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dolan*


Okey, but i've heard that some people have problem with their buttons rubbing of on the 7g, but i'll hope you're right










I have a deck keyboard. You would have to wear a hole in the key to rub off the key.


----------



## jimwest

I'm looking at another keyboard. The first choice at the moment would be the Cherry ML4100 mini keyboard. I believe it's Black switches, but I haven't been able to find the specs for it. Is anyone here familiar with this keyboard?

I'm also looking at some Model M's and Dell 101's. During my search, I've found several Packard Bell keyboards. Does anyone know what kind of switches these use?


----------



## Dolan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I have a deck keyboard. You would have to wear a hole in the key to rub off the key.

Yes, i would love to have that keyboard, but the tax in my country is pricey, so it would end on about 250$


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jimwest* 
I'm looking at another keyboard. The first choice at the moment would be the Cherry ML4100 mini keyboard. I believe it's Black switches, but I haven't been able to find the specs for it. Is anyone here familiar with this keyboard?

I'm also looking at some Model M's and Dell 101's. During my search, I've found several Packard Bell keyboards. Does anyone know what kind of switches these use?

The ML4100 uses black *ML* switches, not MX like you're thinking. The switches are low profile and don't feel too bad, but the key size/spacing on that board is smaller than standard, kind of like a netbook keyboard. So unless you've got a use for something like that you probably want to avoid it.

No idea about the Packard Bell boards, but my guess is that they're all rubber dome (because they were made for cheap computers).


----------



## RonindeBeatrice

So, I have had about a week with my Deck 82 Fire. It should definitely be mentioned that the layout is supremely non-standard. The keys are all over the place. The keyboard is solid and using it is a joy, but it will take some getting used to. The ~ is to the left of the spacebar, with the alt, and then ctrl neighboring it. The windows key is at the far upper right corner, while the del key can be found to the right of the space bar. There are other slight differences, but these stood out the most to me.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RonindeBeatrice*


So, I have had about a week with my Deck 82 Fire. It should definitely be mentioned that the layout is supremely non-standard. The keys are all over the place. The keyboard is solid and using it is a joy, but it will take some getting used to. The ~ is to the left of the spacebar, with the alt, and then ctrl neighboring it. The windows key is at the far upper right corner, while the del key can be found to the right of the space bar. There are other slight differences, but these stood out the most to me.


Yeah, I hate it when they do stuff like that. The only compact keyboard that's close to normal, at least that I know of, is the iRocks KR-6230. All it needs is for the /? key to be placed on the left side of the shift key again, and for the Backspace, \\, and Enter keys to be made standard US ANSI.

But I'm pretty sure the Windows key being way off in the corner was done for gaming, since a lot of people prefer the key not being in it's regular spot so they don't hit it accidentally.


----------



## tombom

I like the fact that my Model M doesn't even have a windows key.

Actually, I'm not sure it is a Model M. I got:

This one: (Mine's not as new, and I don't have the little nub for the mouse that it comes with.

http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index...parentcat/9244

Model:13H6705 Which is an M13 I guess.

Any info on it Manyek?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Believe me those aren't problems on the irocks. The Del key is also between f12 and insert. However the main issue is where the alt key is. The left alt key is where the windows key is on normal keyboards, forcing your left hand to rotate to the right for the thumb to reach it while typing.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tombom*


I like the fact that my Model M doesn't even have a windows key.

Actually, I'm not sure it is a Model M. I got:

This one: (Mine's not as new, and I don't have the little nub for the mouse that it comes with.

http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index...parentcat/9244

Model:13H6705 Which is an M13 I guess.

Any info on it Manyek?


Yeah, it's a model M with a trackpoint. I don't know how much more info you want than that









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Believe me those aren't problems on the irocks. The Del key is also between f12 and insert. However the main issue is where the alt key is. The left alt key is where the windows key is on normal keyboards, forcing your left hand to rotate to the right for the thumb to reach it while typing.


Except when you actually use it you get the hang of using the numberpad for del/ins/home/end/pgup/pgdn. The nice thing is that even if numlock is on, if you hold ctrl it temporarily turns it off for you so you can use them. So having Del and Ins where they are isn't an issue.

And I dunno I didn't have any problem with the Alt key.


----------



## IBuyJunk

I love these old mechanical keyboards.

I had a slight collection going - 2 Model Ms, a Dell keyboard and an Acer mechanical keyboard. The Dell died one day so I replaced it with a BRAND NEW Unicomp M.

The problem with the unicomp is it is euro and it has a small shift key. Kinda makes gaming not so easy but oh well









These keyboards areally are the best


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RonindeBeatrice*


So, I have had about a week with my Deck 82 Fire. It should definitely be mentioned that the layout is supremely non-standard. The keys are all over the place. The keyboard is solid and using it is a joy, but it will take some getting used to. The ~ is to the left of the spacebar, with the alt, and then ctrl neighboring it. The windows key is at the far upper right corner, while the del key can be found to the right of the space bar. There are other slight differences, but these stood out the most to me.


where did you get a Deck 82 Fire? they stopped making Fire and Gold editions a while ago.










ugh that font...

Christine


----------



## pow3rtr1p

Just E-Mailed Elite Keyboards about when they will get the Otaku Cherry Blue 87-Key FILCOs in again. I'll buy it once it comes in.


----------



## Rapid7

I love mechanical keyboards,owned my Raptor Gaming K1 for around 5 years or so.Managed to find another one for sale on ebay for Â£20.00 as a back up as they haven't been available for a few years now.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I don't think I can use a board with MX Browns.

I just did the nickel trick to measure activation force. My Model M, just as it should, activated right at 80g (16 nickels). When I tested my old HP Multimedia board, which I can't stand to type on now, it activated at 35g (7 nickels)--the same activation force as needed for the Cherry MX Brown switches.

Now, there are more reasons why I hate that HP board than just its light activation force--shallow keys, no tactile feel, Windows keys, sleep button next to Escape--but I think that after typing on this Model M for so long (like... two months







) it would take me weeks to get used to typing on something that light.

'Course, just like Goldilocks I think the Model M is just a tad heavy for me. Something in the 50-60g range would probably be perfect. And I like the tactile feel, but I could do without the clicking...

WHICH IS WHY FILCO NEEDS TO HURRY UP AND GET BOARDS WITH MX CLEARS! :swearing:


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I don't think I can use a board with MX Browns.

I just did the nickel trick to measure activation force. My Model M, just as it should, activated right at 80g (16 nickels). When I tested my old HP Multimedia board, which I can't stand to type on now, it activated at 35g (7 nickels)--the same activation force as needed for the Cherry MX Brown switches.

Now, there are more reasons why I hate that HP board than just its light activation force--shallow keys, no tactile feel, Windows keys, sleep button next to Escape--but I think that after typing on this Model M for so long (like... two months







) it would take me weeks to get used to typing on something that light.

'Course, just like Goldilocks I think the Model M is just a tad heavy for me. Something in the 50-60g range would probably be perfect. And I like the tactile feel, but I could do without the clicking...

WHICH IS WHY FILCO NEEDS TO HURRY UP AND GET BOARDS WITH MX CLEARS! :swearing:

Clears are 80g just like MX Blacks. If you want something just a little bit lighter, get a Unicomp, something with MX Blues, or a Chicony KB-5181. They all click, but at least they'll match the feel you're looking for a bit better.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I thought I heard the MX Clears have 55g switches?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I thought I heard the MX Clears have 55g switches?


Nope. Clears have the same mechanism as Browns (the same slight tactile bump) but with the spring of Blacks. You can actually make them yourself by buying a Filco with browns, and then picking up a cheap Cherry MX-11900 on ebay (blacks) to harvest the springs from.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

That might be something to consider, actually. The Model M is a little heavier than I like, but it's certainly bearable. And I think I'd rather have slightly too heavy than way too light. Thanks for the idea.


----------



## Sorian

So I've been thinking about ordering a Filco with MX Browns, just been waiting for them to get the otaku version in stock.

My current keyboard (G15) takes 11 nickels to activate a key, so that's 55g. And the MX Browns take 35g. When I think about it enough, the G15 does feel rather annoying to type on and sometimes too heavy, but would going down 20g be too much of a difference?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Ok, I've been trying to find out more about the Cherry MX keyswitches, but there isn't a lot of info for the ones that aren't really common. Help?

Brown - 35g activation, tactile, non-clicky
Blue - 45g activation, tactile, clicky
Black - 80g activation, linear, non-clicky
Clear - 80g activation, tactile, non-clicky
White - ?
Green - ?
Grey - ?


----------



## kyle-reece

you wouldn't happen to know the force needed to actuate a cherry red mx switch would you manyak?


----------



## soloz2

I thought clears were 55g
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?tit...rted+By+Switch


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
I thought clears were 55g
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?tit...rted+By+Switch

That's what I heard, but Manyak said it was 80g. *shrug*


----------



## brodie337

Hey folks. This is a repost that I originally made at GeekHack, and I wanted as many opinions as possible.

OK, so after getting a new job, I have decided to reward myself by blowing my paycheck on a shiny (or matte) new keyboard.

My current board is a Chicony KB-5181, with what I think are Monterey SMK switches, but I'm looking to replace it with a Filco "Otaku" Tenkeyless with either Blue or Brown switches.

My question is which switches should I go for?

I'd rather not have the noise of the blues, but I'm worried the browns will be too light after the switches that I currently use, and that the tactile bump ill be too soft.

I don't mind spending more, as long as I know that this keyboard will be properly suited to me.

The keyboard, must, however, be a compact 'board, ideally a standard(ish) layout (I don't mind a large enter key), but hopefully a normal board, just tenkeyless. A sharper tactile bump would be nice, but not essential, as long as its noticeable. Also, if possible, the option of blank keys would be nice.

My main concern is about the switches though. Also, money is not an object here.


----------



## clownfart

Have you considered Topre switches?


----------



## brodie337

I have, but I don't think they are for me. the fact that they are both light and soft is something of a turn off, but then again, the browns are both fairly light and soft.

Also, the fact that cherry switches "catch" you at the end of their stroke is something of a selling point.

The cherry clear switches used in the Deck Legend seem like a good choice, but I can't find any compact keyboards that use them.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


That's what I heard, but Manyak said it was 80g. *shrug*


I think he's closer to the mark. I laid down all my G9 weights (44g total) along with all the change I have on me (two 5g nickels, one 5.5g quarter, three 2.5g pennies, and one 2g dime for a grand total of ~70g including the mouse weights) on my Deck Legend Frost, and the key did not actuate.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *brodie337*


Hey folks. This is a repost that I originally made at GeekHack, and I wanted as many opinions as possible.

OK, so after getting a new job, I have decided to reward myself by blowing my paycheck on a shiny (or matte) new keyboard.

My current board is a Chicony KB-5181, with what I think are Monterey SMK switches, but I'm looking to replace it with a Filco "Otaku" Tenkeyless with either Blue or Brown switches.

My question is which switches should I go for?

I'd rather not have the noise of the blues, but I'm worried the browns will be too light after the switches that I currently use, and that the tactile bump ill be too soft.

I don't mind spending more, as long as I know that this keyboard will be properly suited to me.

The keyboard, must, however, be a compact 'board, ideally a standard(ish) layout (I don't mind a large enter key), but hopefully a normal board, just tenkeyless. A sharper tactile bump would be nice, but not essential, as long as its noticeable. Also, if possible, the option of blank keys would be nice.

My main concern is about the switches though. Also, money is not an object here.


I know you said you thought Topre switches might be too light, but have you checked out the all 55g Topre 87u Tenkeyless? 55g is reasonably meaty, and capacitive switches are definitely a delight to type on.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


I thought clears were 55g
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?tit...rted+By+Switch


The problem is that there are three Whites/Clears, and there's no way to know which one anyone is talking about.Read this.

But I just checked on Decks site, and came up with the official value of 2.1oz, which is 60g.

Also, I think they put a heavier switch in the spacebar, probably a gray switch. They do it on the non tactile models, so I'm pretty sure they do it for the tactile ones too.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *brodie337*


Hey folks. This is a repost that I originally made at GeekHack, and I wanted as many opinions as possible.

OK, so after getting a new job, I have decided to reward myself by blowing my paycheck on a shiny (or matte) new keyboard.

My current board is a Chicony KB-5181, with what I think are Monterey SMK switches, but I'm looking to replace it with a Filco "Otaku" Tenkeyless with either Blue or Brown switches.

My question is which switches should I go for?

I'd rather not have the noise of the blues, but I'm worried the browns will be too light after the switches that I currently use, and that the tactile bump ill be too soft.

I don't mind spending more, as long as I know that this keyboard will be properly suited to me.

The keyboard, must, however, be a compact 'board, ideally a standard(ish) layout (I don't mind a large enter key), but hopefully a normal board, just tenkeyless. A sharper tactile bump would be nice, but not essential, as long as its noticeable. Also, if possible, the option of blank keys would be nice.

My main concern is about the switches though. Also, money is not an object here.


I think the best choice for your are Topres. There isn't a single switch I've ever seen that has the sharp tactile bump similar to the SMK montereys or Cherry Blues, but doesn't click. And the bump on the Browns is pretty soft, and will take you quite a while to start to notice after coming off of SMKs.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Ok, I've been trying to find out more about the Cherry MX keyswitches, but there isn't a lot of info for the ones that aren't really common. Help?

Brown - 35g activation, tactile, non-clicky
Blue - 45g activation, tactile, clicky
Black - 80g activation, linear, non-clicky
Clear - 80g activation, tactile, non-clicky
White - ?
Green - ?
Grey - ?


Also, read this.


----------



## Izvire

lmnop sent me a private message regarding a question with the Steelseries 7G.

*"http://www.overclock.net/7922653-post1106.html

can you post the results in the mechanical keyboard guide it's on page 2 of the peripheral section.

please and thank you.

Christine"
*

I've checked the rollover with PassMark KeyboardTest and it registers every key I press, so it isn't limited to only 6 keys at a time. The latency also keeps changing when I press multiple sets at a time. Don't know if this was the real question or not though, my english ain't so good


----------



## lmnop

Thanks again.

Manyak if you're reading this, this was the test you wanted me to do a month ago with the steelseries 7g but mine came DOA (USB Cable) if you have any questions ask Izvire.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Izvire* 
lmnop sent me a private message regarding a question with the Steelseries 7G.

*"http://www.overclock.net/7922653-post1106.html

can you post the results in the mechanical keyboard guide it's on page 2 of the peripheral section.

please and thank you.

Christine"
*

I've checked the rollover with PassMark KeyboardTest and it registers every key I press, so it isn't limited to only 6 keys at a time. The latency also keeps changing when I press multiple sets at a time. Don't know if this was the real question or not though, my english ain't so good









Is it connected through USB or PS/2?

Sounds like PS/2, but I just want to be absolutely sure.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Is it connected through USB or PS/2?

I hope this thread gets stickied.

add the Cherry Keyboard G80-3000LPCEU-0 to the list on the OP under Cherry MX Black Linear.

remember this one?










*you have it on the list but listed under Brown.*

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I hope this thread gets stickied.

add the Cherry Keyboard G80-3000LPCEU-0 to the list on the OP under Cherry MX Black Linear.

remember this one?










*you have it on the list but listed under Brown.*

Christine

There are a bunch of G80s, with all different types of MX switches. There's one under Blue too!

But yes I still need to add the G80s and Das S to the main list.


----------



## lmnop

I think the OP needs more meat. it's really become a warning message, quick info on some popular models and a keyboards sorted by switch with some dead links.

diagram of a switch like the ad sheet or box of a ABS M1
switch info (audio, force, actuation, other info)
legend printing info (silk, pad, laser, double, sub-dye)
replace links on the keyboards sorted by switch list to manufacturing or company sites because some store links are dead
useful stuff like keycap pullers, cleaning supplies (friendly solvents, isopropyl/isopropanol)
tools autohotkey, remappers, n-key test, etc

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I think the OP needs more meat. it's really become a warning message, quick info on some popular models and a keyboards sorted by switch with some dead links.

diagram of a switch like the ad sheet or box of a ABS M1
switch info (audio, force, actuation, other info)
legend printing info (silk, pad, laser, double, sub-dye)
replace links on the keyboards sorted by switch list to manufacturing or company sites because some store links are dead
useful stuff like keycap pullers, cleaning supplies (friendly solvents, isopropyl/isopropanol)
tools autohotkey, remappers, n-key test, etc

Christine

good idea, I like it. I think I can also get rid of the part that says "I found a good guide..." and just write something myself.

I have to go to class soon, maybe I'll work on it there. If not then tomorrow morning, I don't have anything to do then.


----------



## Izvire

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Is it connected through USB or PS/2?

Sounds like PS/2, but I just want to be absolutely sure.

Yeah its through PS/2.


----------



## Ikrin

Are Space Savers with trackpoint clicky keyboards?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Izvire* 
Yeah its through PS/2.









try USB

Christine


----------



## PhotonFanatic

Which one is going to have that truely old sound? The sound that just says "I'm a keyboard from 1985". Would that be the buckling spring?

And if so, does the buckling spring have a very deep keystroke? I don't want to feel like I am having to push down for _too long._ But I want that loud clack from the keys.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PhotonFanatic* 
Which one is going to have that truely old sound? The sound that just says "I'm a keyboard from 1985". Would that be the buckling spring?

And if so, does the buckling spring have a very deep keystroke? I don't want to feel like I am having to push down for _too long._ But I want that loud clack from the keys.

Yeah, that would be buckling spring.

And as for the stroke distance:

Quote:

2.3mm to actuation, 4mm to bottom


----------



## Hoodcom

I've been looking back at this thread several times the past few months. I do have interests in Mechanical keyboards, but I'm pretty darn well confused on quite a few things.

Mainly the whole deal about the switches and all, due to there being a lot of different types.

Right now, on my desktop, I'm a Logitech G-15 user...
Please don't throw me in a dungeon with the key thrown away.









...and as for my laptop I use the keyboard it has built on it.

Anyway, what mechanical keyboard would you recommend to me, that is great at both typing and gaming, that is full sized, offers both USB and PS/2 connectivity, and possibly LED back lit. (I like LED lit keyboards, but I could live with out one if I must.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoodcom* 
I've been looking back at this thread several times the past few months. I do have interests in Mechanical keyboards, but I'm pretty darn well confused on quite a few things.

Mainly the whole deal about the switches and all, due to there being a lot of different types.

Right now, on my desktop, I'm a Logitech G-15 user...
Please don't throw me in a dungeon with the key thrown away.









...and as for my laptop I use the keyboard it has built on it.

Anyway, what mechanical keyboard would you recommend to me, that is great at both typing and gaming, that is full sized, offers both USB and PS/2 connectivity, and possibly LED back lit. (I like LED lit keyboards, but I could live with out one if I must.

Well the only backlit mechanical keyboard you can currently get your hands on is the Deck. Which, if you prefer stiffer keys and don't mind the stupid font, is a good board (you'll probably want the tactile one, with Cherry Whites/Clears). If you prefer lighter keys, then a Filco w/ Cherry Browns is what you're looking for.

If you want something balanced a bit more towards typing, then you want Cherry Blues (Filco or Das S). It's resistance is somewhere in between the Whites and Browns but has a more pronounced tactile bump, and is clicky. The only downside to them is that double-tapping when gaming isn't as easy because the release point is higher up than the actuation point.


----------



## IEATFISH

I use my Filco for gaming and typing and it is a good mix between the two. I did a review on it in our review section here:

http://www.overclock.net/hardware/sh...p?product=1097


----------



## Hoodcom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Well the only backlit mechanical keyboard you can currently get your hands on is the Deck. Which, if you prefer stiffer keys and don't mind the stupid font, is a good board (you'll probably want the tactile one, with Cherry Whites/Clears). If you prefer lighter keys, then a Filco w/ Cherry Browns is what you're looking for.

If you want something balanced a bit more towards typing, then you want Cherry Blues (Filco or Das S). It's resistance is somewhere in between the Whites and Browns but has a more pronounced tactile bump, and is clicky. The only downside to them is that double-tapping when gaming isn't as easy because the release point is higher up than the actuation point.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *IEATFISH* 
I use my Filco for gaming and typing and it is a good mix between the two. I did a review on it in our review section here:

http://www.overclock.net/hardware/sh...p?product=1097

Thanks guys. Right now the Filco looks pretty good to me, though is Green the only color they have for the Cherry Blues? Not that I have an issue with that, it's just I might want it to match what ever my computer will have.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoodcom* 
Thanks guys. Right now the Filco looks pretty good to me, though is Green the only color they have for the Cherry Blues? Not that I have an issue with that, it's just I might want it to match what ever my computer will have.









Yeah.

But, what you should do is email elitekeyboards and ask what voltage/amps the green LEDs are rated at. Then you can just pick up any color LEDs you want and replace them, worst case scenario they'll just need an inline resistor added.


----------



## Manyak

Stickied


----------



## PhotonFanatic

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Yeah, that would be buckling spring.

And as for the stroke distance:

How deep would you say that the kestroke is on the buckling spring, in comparison to the newer membrane style keyboards? I am afraid I have no frame of reference.

Also, how hard would you say that they are to press, in comparison with the newer style membrane boards? And do you hear a metal "twang" sound? Or not really?

I really want to buy one, I just don't want any chance of my gaming, to suffer. Basically I don't want to start to suffer in games due to my keyboard.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PhotonFanatic* 
How deep would you say that the kestroke is on the buckling spring, in comparison to the newer membrane style keyboards? I am afraid I have no frame of reference.

Also, how hard would you say that they are to press, in comparison with the newer style membrane boards? And do you hear a metal "twang" sound? Or not really?

I really want to buy one, I just don't want any chance of my gaming, to suffer. Basically I don't want to start to suffer in games due to my keyboard.

They're a little bit harder to press than most membrane boards when they're new, but they also snap back into place a lot quicker.

Whether or not you'll suffer really depends on you though. In all technical respects no you won't suffer unless you need to press some weird key combinations (WASD gaming works fine on those boards though so don't worry about that). But in the end it all comes down to how you like the feel of the keys. Personally, when gaming I couldn't care if I had to pound on the keys like I was trying to resuscitate 101 dead rats, so it works for me. But some people just don't like it. And there's no way to know for sure unless you try it for a week or two (because it always takes a little bit of time to properly adjust to new switches).

BUT....if you try it and find out you don't like it, at least you'll be introduced to mechanical switches and it'll be very easy to pick a switch that you _will_ like.


----------



## Manyak

I'm in the middle of updating the OP with lots more information.

Anyone reading this, if you have any suggestions on what to change/add please say so. Also, take a look at the new Das S entry, that's the format I'm thinking of using for the others as well.


----------



## xeysz

Just a minor pricing fix: the ABS M1 is $50 at Newegg now and the iOne Scorpius is $60. Maybe list their MSRP instead?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xeysz* 
Just a minor pricing fix: the ABS M1 is $50 at Newegg now and the iOne Scorpius is $60. Maybe list their MSRP instead?

Yeah those prices were from a year ago. Nah I'll just stick with the actual price, MSRPs are always way off from what you actually get it at.


----------



## IEATFISH

Yeah, most of those keyboards are only sold at a few locations. I'd list a good average price and then any 'deal' can be posted here or in the Online Deals section as they most likely won't be permanent.


----------



## clownfart

There's some better force/travel diagrams in this pdf:
http://www.cherry.de/english/switche...dule-mx-en.pdf

Also there's a diagram for white switches in this pdf:
http://docs-europe.electrocomponents...6b8014611b.pdf

And here's some info on how cherry MX switches operate:
http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_cherry_mx.htm

There's a link to an Alps page on that site too.


----------



## Manyak

Aha, there's the white one! I'll get those in later


----------



## clownfart

One day I will buy a Filco and solder these in. Unless they can beat me to it and make one for me.


----------



## KipH

Red, nice. What is it?


----------



## clownfart

Low force linear switch.


----------



## hondajt

Does anyone else think that a keyboard that has pressure sensitive keys would be awesome? Think about it. Just push the button harder for a capital letter. That would be awesome.

Wow, that's actually not that hard to do.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hondajt* 
Does anyone else think that a keyboard that has pressure sensitive keys would be awesome? Think about it. Just push the button harder for a capital letter. That would be awesome.

Wow, that's actually not that hard to do.


----------



## Ragsters

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hondajt* 
Does anyone else think that a keyboard that has pressure sensitive keys would be awesome? Think about it. Just push the button harder for a capital letter. That would be awesome.

Wow, that's actually not that hard to do.

I think that would be cool except you would need a switch or something to turn that feature on or off. People type different depending on their mood. It would be hard to relax your typing force when, for example, writing a break up letter to a girlfriend.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ragsters* 
I think that would be cool except you would need a switch or something to turn that feature on or off. People type different depending on their mood. It would be hard to relax your typing force when, for example, writing a break up letter to a girlfriend.

Well then it'll come out in all caps, and she'll _really_ know you're pissed off


----------



## hondajt

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ragsters* 
I think that would be cool except you would need a switch or something to turn that feature on or off. People type different depending on their mood. It would be hard to relax your typing force when, for example, writing a break up letter to a girlfriend.

Seem's like a sleezeball way out of that. Seem's like your typing skills should be overlooked for some manners?

lol.

It's really hard to do "sarcasm" online.


----------



## Farih

Are these boards i have mechanical to ?


Microsft reclusa


Chicony KB-0512


----------



## Izvire

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Farih* 
Are these boards i have mechanical to ?


Microsft reclusa


Chicony KB-0512

Nope.


----------



## hondajt

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Izvire* 
Nope.

No need to quote giant pictures btw. lol

This is an awesome thread btw. Very informative. +rep!


----------



## PhotonFanatic

Does buckling spring have a loud metal "twang!", or is it just more of a "clack!" ?

And if it starts out with a "clack!" do they get more of a "Twang!" as they wear?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PhotonFanatic* 
Does buckling spring have a loud metal "twang!", or is it just more of a "clack!" ?

And if it starts out with a "clack!" do they get more of a "Twang!" as they wear?

No it's just a clack. But there's a very subtle twang-ish sound when you _release_ the key, from the spring snapping back into place.


----------



## Kyleson

Hello, I've been lurking in this very informative thread for a while now before finally deciding to register and post.

After reading through some of the information, I've decided I want to purchase a Filco Tenkeyless keyboard to replace my aging Saitek Eclipse 2. The only thing I would like to know about is the switches.

I play a game that does a lot of double tapping, how are the linear cherry black switches best for doing double tapping?

Also are elitekeyboards the only place to buy filco keyboards? Are they reliable?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kyleson* 
Hello, I've been lurking in this very informative thread for a while now before finally deciding to register and post.

After reading through some of the information, I've decided I want to purchase a Filco Tenkeyless keyboard to replace my aging Saitek Eclipse 2. The only thing I would like to know about is the switches.

I play a game that does a lot of double tapping, how are the linear cherry black switches best for doing double tapping?

Also are elitekeyboards the only place to buy filco keyboards? Are they reliable?

Linear switches, in general, are best for gaming for two reasons. 1) Because the actuation and release point are at the exact same place, and 2) because the tactile bump doesn't get in your way (since you bottom out keys while gaming anyway).

But remember, most people don't like them for typing, in which case Cherry Browns or Clears are your best bet - they've got a really nice balance between typing and gaming. But you never know, you just might like typing on them after all








.

And yes, elitekeyboards is the only place to get them, at least in the US. In the UK you have thekeyboardco (but elitekeyboards still ships to europe too), and in japan you have them all over the place.


----------



## Kyleson

I'm worried about the blacks being too stiff for typing. I dont know if it will be stiffer than the rubber dome keyboard I am using right now that I bottom out when I type. *keep in mind I've only used rubber dome keyboards

I've been trying to find a Steelseries 7G board to test the switch but no one seems to sell that keyboard in a retail store.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kyleson* 
I'm worried about the blacks being too stiff for typing. I dont know if it will be stiffer than the rubber dome keyboard I am using right now that I bottom out when I type. *keep in mind I've only used rubber dome keyboards

I've been trying to find a Steelseries 7G board to test the switch but no one seems to sell that keyboard in a retail store.

IIRC, the force for the Cherry MX blacks is about the same as the force for a Model M buckling spring keyboard although it seems to feel either stiffer or lighter depending on how far you actuate the key, as you don't have a tactile point.


----------



## soloz2

I recently replaced my Saitek Eclipse II with a FILCO Tenkeyless with browns and haven't looked back. I wish the switches had a bit more resistance, but I didn't want the click of the blues.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


I recently replaced my Saitek Eclipse II with a FILCO Tenkeyless with browns and haven't looked back. I wish the switches had a bit more resistance, but I didn't want the click of the blues.


You should check out the whites, they're great.


----------



## kyle-reece

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kyleson*


I'm worried about the blacks being too stiff for typing. I dont know if it will be stiffer than the rubber dome keyboard I am using right now that I bottom out when I type. *keep in mind I've only used rubber dome keyboards

I've been trying to find a Steelseries 7G board to test the switch but no one seems to sell that keyboard in a retail store.


If you're worried about the stiffness of the mx blacks and want a linear switch then consider the cherry mx red switches.


----------



## clownfart

I don't think getting one imported will be cheap.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn* 
You should check out the whites, they're great.

and clicky


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
and clicky

Whites aren't clicky. They are just stiffer browns.


----------



## Kyleson

"If you're worried about the stiffness of the mx blacks and want a linear switch then consider the cherry mx red switches."

Elitekeyboards dont offer filco tenkeyless with red switches, where would I go to order one?

" Originally Posted by soloz2
I recently replaced my Saitek Eclipse II with a FILCO Tenkeyless with browns and haven't looked back. I wish the switches had a bit more resistance, but I didn't want the click of the blues."

Is it a lighter press to generate a keystroke compared to the rubber membrane saitek eclipse 2? I would like to know the difference of the amount of force to generate a keystroke between my rubber dome saitek eclipse 2 and a linear cherry black.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kyleson* 
"If you're worried about the stiffness of the mx blacks and want a linear switch then consider the cherry mx red switches."

Elitekeyboards dont offer filco tenkeyless with red switches, where would I go to order one?

" Originally Posted by soloz2
I recently replaced my Saitek Eclipse II with a FILCO Tenkeyless with browns and haven't looked back. I wish the switches had a bit more resistance, but I didn't want the click of the blues."

Is it a lighter press to generate a keystroke compared to the rubber membrane saitek eclipse 2? I would like to know the difference of the amount of force to generate a keystroke between my rubber dome saitek eclipse 2 and a linear cherry black.

you can't even compare a mechanical switch to a rubber dome.

only ways to get Cherry MX Red switches is to 1) go to Asia and buy a Cherry G80-3600LYC 2) try and order a Ducky keyboard or 3) order a minimum of 1000 from digi-key for $625 and solder them in yourself.

Christine


----------



## clownfart

Someone order 1000 and I will by 100 from you. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to sell the rest.


----------



## KipH

I am in Asia! Taiwan to be exact. If there is some secret Asian dealer or something let me know. I can buy them and ship to you at cost +shipping. My CNY present to you all


----------



## MLJS54

Manyak et al,

Can you suggest a good solution to a cheap Cherry Black kb w/ a standard layout? Someone on geekhack pointed me to something like this http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...E:B:SS:US:1123 but that layout kills it for me. Or is there really no cheap alternative and I might as well keep a lookout for a used one from the usual suspects (Filco, 7G etc)?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Hey Manyak, on the standard IBM matrix is it normal for "ctrl+alt+numpad7" to result in numpad 8 and 9 to register as well?

If so it will be the first time the Model M has disappointed me.

Nevermind. Mistake while setting up Autohotkeys.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MLJS54* 
Manyak et al,

Can you suggest a good solution to a cheap Cherry Black kb w/ a standard layout? Someone on geekhack pointed me to something like this http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...E:B:SS:US:1123 but that layout kills it for me. Or is there really no cheap alternative and I might as well keep a lookout for a used one from the usual suspects (Filco, 7G etc)?











Cherry G80-3000LPCEU-0 about $75. I don't think you will find a used one though.

Sorry









Christine


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Cherry G80-3000LPCEU-0
http://www.provantage.com/cherry-ele...u~7CHER0FT.htm

So those are available.


----------



## Iceman0803

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ragsters* 
I think that would be cool except you would need a switch or something to turn that feature on or off. People type different depending on their mood. It would be hard to relax your typing force when, for example, *writing a break up letter to a girlfriend*.

That's why God invented text messaging.


----------



## TwoCables

I've been using the Lycosa for several months now and I'm honestly quite tired of it. I admit that I find the backlit keys to be very useful, but there are just little things about this keyboard that I hate.

So, I'm seriously considering buying the Das Model S Professional. You see, here are my requirements:

Must have a USB port on it
Must have the Backspace and Enter keys shaped like this keyboard's
Must have no extra stuff to the sides (in other words, I hated the G15 because it does not meet this requirement)
Must not have a wristwrist (or must be removable)
Must not be wireless
Must have NKRO
Must have Play/Pause, Stop, Prev/Next, Vol Up/Down and Mute buttons
Must be able to program any key on the keyboard to do whatever I need it to do (just like the Lycosa)
Must be able to have 2 different profiles that automatically switch depending on what's in focus (just like the Lycosa)
Must be able to re-map keys around (for example, I require that the Fn and WinKey keys be swapped with each other because I require a left-sided WinKey key)
Must be a pleasure to type on
I've heard that with a little bit of help, the Model S Professional can meet every single one of these requirements as opposed to just _most_ of them.

So I have one question: is there a better mechanical keyboard that meets all of these requirements? Or, did I find my dream keyboard?

Just for the fun of it, is there one that has good backlit keys that meets all of these requirements?

*Edit:* I just realized that I have plenty of time to decide because I won't be able to make any purchase until March 3rd. I also want to use this time to learn exactly how I'm going to be able to have multiple profiles that automatically switch when I open assigned programs, how I'm going to customize any key to anything I want (such as customizing F8 to open a Notepad document, and F10 to open Paint), and how I'm going to re-map the Fn and WinKey keys so that they're swapped.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MLJS54* 
Manyak et al,

Can you suggest a good solution to a cheap Cherry Black kb w/ a standard layout? Someone on geekhack pointed me to something like this http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...E:B:SS:US:1123 but that layout kills it for me. Or is there really no cheap alternative and I might as well keep a lookout for a used one from the usual suspects (Filco, 7G etc)?

This one and the one Imnop linked are the only two super cheap MX Black keyboards there are. And I really doubt you're going to find a used one anytime soon, it's very rare to find one of the good mechanical boards for sale here. And on geekhack its very rare to find Cherry Blacks.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I've been using the Lycosa for several months now and I'm honestly quite tired of it. I admit that I find the backlit keys to be very useful, but there are just little things about this keyboard that I hate.

So, I'm seriously considering buying the Das Model S Professional. You see, here are my requirements:

Must have a USB port on it
Must have the Backspace and Enter keys shaped like this keyboard's
Must have no extra stuff to the sides (in other words, I hated the G15 because it does not meet this requirement)
Must not have a wristwrist (or must be removable)
Must not be wireless
Must have NKRO
Must have Play/Pause, Stop, Prev/Next, Vol Up/Down and Mute buttons
Must be able to program any key on the keyboard to do whatever I need it to do (just like the Lycosa)
Must be able to have 2 different profiles that automatically switch depending on what's in focus (just like the Lycosa)
Must be able to re-map keys around (for example, I require that the Fn and WinKey keys be swapped with each other because I require a left-sided WinKey key)
Must be a pleasure to type on
I've heard that with a little bit of help, the Model S Professional can meet every single one of these requirements as opposed to just _most_ of them.

So I have one question: is there a better mechanical keyboard that meets all of these requirements? Or, did I find my dream keyboard?

Just for the fun of it, is there one that has good backlit keys that meets all of these requirements?

*Edit:* I just realized that I have plenty of time to decide because I won't be able to make any purchase until March 3rd. I also want to use this time to learn exactly how I'm going to be able to have multiple profiles that automatically switch when I open assigned programs, how I'm going to customize any key to anything I want (such as customizing F8 to open a Notepad document, and F10 to open Paint), and how I'm going to re-map the Fn and WinKey keys so that they're swapped.

Out of that whole list, the only thing you're going to have trouble with is switching around the Fn and Meta keys. Fn doesn't send any scancodes to the PC, meaning that you can't reprogram it using software. So you're going to have to do it physically: open up the keyboard, cut the traces going to it, and run wires to the ones going to the Meta key. And vice versa. On the other hand, if you get a Filco then you won't have to do this but you'd have to mod in a USB hub. So I guess you should just pick the one you feel is going to be easier to mod and go with it.

But as for programming/remapping it, check out Autohotkey. You'll find that it's a lot more powerful than Razer's drivers. Even if you pick a keyboard without media keys at all, you can program them in. You can even pick new modifiers or create new layers for current ones. For example, you could leave LeftCtrl as Ctrl, but then turn RightCtrl into a "media modifier" so you can have access to media keys through it. Or hell, you could even use the letter "M" as a modifier. So you don't need to restrict yourself just to the Das just because of the media keys.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
This one and the one Imnop linked are the only two super cheap MX Black keyboards there are. And I really doubt you're going to find a used one anytime soon, it's very rare to find one of the good mechanical boards for sale here. And on geekhack its very rare to find Cherry Blacks.

Out of that whole list, the only thing you're going to have trouble with is switching around the Fn and Meta keys. Fn doesn't send any scancodes to the PC, meaning that you can't reprogram it using software. So you're going to have to do it physically: open up the keyboard, cut the traces going to it, and run wires to the ones going to the Meta key. And vice versa. On the other hand, if you get a Filco then you won't have to do this but you'd have to mod in a USB hub. So I guess you should just pick the one you feel is going to be easier to mod and go with it.

But as for programming/remapping it, check out Autohotkey. You'll find that it's a lot more powerful than Razer's drivers. Even if you pick a keyboard without media keys at all, you can program them in. You can even pick new modifiers or create new layers for current ones. For example, you could leave LeftCtrl as Ctrl, but then turn RightCtrl into a "media modifier" so you can have access to media keys through it. Or hell, you could even use the letter "M" as a modifier. So you don't need to restrict yourself just to the Das just because of the media keys.

oh really I thought the Fn key had a scan code. my apologies TwoCables. most media keys are global and play, pause, stop, forward, back, etc but don't always work in some media players and with AutoHotKey you can create separate ones for Winamp, Windows Media Player, Video LAN, etc.

if you're not purchasing until March you should start working on your AutoHotKey script.

I think either Das model suits your needs and you will be very happy with your purchase however one last tip you can get a refurbished Das Professional for $99. Filco has a variety of models but the thin keycaps, silk screen printing and paint that wears off is quite annoying for the price they sell for.

the EKB rep at geekhack said they have some surprises this year I hope it's a lot better than a pink keyboard.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
oh really I thought the Fn key had a scan code. my apologies TwoCables. most media keys are global and play, pause, stop, forward, back, etc but don't always work in some media players and with AutoHotKey you can create separate ones for Winamp, Windows Media Player, Video LAN, etc.

I think either Das model suits your needs and you will be very happy with your purchase however you can get a refurbished Das Professional for $99 or Filco has a variety of models but the thin keycaps, silk screen printing and paint that wears off annoys me for the price.

Christine

I'd stay away from the Das Professional though, because of it's trasnposition problems.

But no, Fn keys never send scancodes to the PC, on any keyboard. They are used for a separate layer within the keyboard's controller.


----------



## lmnop

hey! that's my keyboard









it depends how fast he types.

Thank you for that piece of info.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


hey! that's my keyboard









it depends how fast he types.

Thank you for that piece of info.

Christine


Well yeah, but is it worth the risk when there's a better alternative?









By the way, I might be getting rid of one of my Sonys soon. I'm hoping to get a nice 30" IPS, and depending on how things pan out I'm either going to put it on the other side of my desk (it's a giant U) or replace one of the CRTs with it. Just thought you might want to know


----------



## clownfart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Out of that whole list, the only thing you're going to have trouble with is switching around the Fn and Meta keys. Fn doesn't send any scancodes to the PC, meaning that you can't reprogram it using software. So you're going to have to do it physically: open up the keyboard, cut the traces going to it, and run wires to the ones going to the Meta key. And vice versa. On the other hand, if you get a Filco then you won't have to do this but you'd have to mod in a USB hub. So I guess you should just pick the one you feel is going to be easier to mod and go with it.


That's actually a pretty easy mod, but you'll have to destroy the OK sticker. >


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
oh really I thought the Fn key had a scan code. my apologies TwoCables. most media keys are global and play, pause, stop, forward, back, etc but don't always work in some media players and with AutoHotKey you can create separate ones for Winamp, Windows Media Player, Video LAN, etc.

Aw, it's all good. I'm having fun learning all of this stuff!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
if you're not purchasing until March you should start working on your AutoHotKey script.

hehe my script will be so simple that I'll be able to make it in about 5 or 10 minutes. I'll only need to program F8 and F11 (a Notepad document and MS Paint, respectively), and I'll only need 2 profiles: 1 with these programmed keys, and another that has no programmed keys that gets automatically selected when I open a specific game where I frequently use each of the Function keys.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I think either Das model suits your needs and you will be very happy with your purchase however one last tip you can get a refurbished Das Professional for $99. Filco has a variety of models but the thin keycaps, silk screen printing and paint that wears off is quite annoying for the price they sell for.

the EKB rep at geekhack said they have some surprises this year I hope it's a lot better than a pink keyboard.

Christine

But that's not the Model S! Eeewwww, Christine! How could you recommend that? Err, I mean: thank you for the heads up, but I must pass. hehe









Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
hey! that's my keyboard









it depends how fast he types.

Thank you for that piece of info.

Christine

I type roughly 65-85 WPM, depending on what I'm typing.

*Edit:* I forgot about one thing: with the way I'd have to modify the Model S to suit my needs, it looks like I'm gonna have to either just take the time to get used to it, or find a keyboard that has the left WinKey and still meets all of my requirements. I don't mind if I end up with a non-mechanical keyboard, but I know myself very well: I know that I would prefer one if I knew the difference.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Aw, it's all good. I'm having fun learning all of this stuff!!

hehe my script will be so simple that I'll be able to make it in about 5 or 10 minutes. I'll only need to program F8 and F11 (a Notepad document and MS Paint, respectively), and I'll only need 2 profiles: 1 with these programmed keys, and another that has no programmed keys that gets automatically selected when I open a specific game where I frequently use each of the Function keys.

But that's not the Model S! Eeewwww, Christine! How could you recommend that? Err, I mean: thank you for the heads up, but I must pass. hehe









I type roughly 65-85 WPM, depending on what I'm typing.

*Edit:* I forgot about one thing: with the way I'd have to modify the Model S to suit my needs, it looks like I'm gonna have to either just take the time to get used to it, or find a keyboard that has the left WinKey and still meets all of my requirements. I don't mind if I end up with a non-mechanical keyboard, but I know myself very well: I know that I would prefer one if I knew the difference.

I go to liquidators all the time and have bought plenty of refurbished products. the Das Professional is refurbished by Metadot the company that sells them not a third party.

because of the tactile and audible feedback and reading comments from first time buyers mechanical keyboards add an extra 10 wpm on average. as long as you don't reach 100-120 wpm you shouldn't notice the transposition error on the _Das Professional_.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I go to liquidators all the time and have bought plenty of refurbished products. the Das Professional is refurbished by Metadot the company that sells them not a third party.

because of the tactile and audible feedback and reading comments from first time buyers mechanical keyboards add an extra 10 wpm on average. as long as you don't reach 100-120 wpm you shouldn't notice the transposition error on the _Das Professional_.

Christine

But if I'm going to go with a Das keyboard, then I would much prefer the Model S.


----------



## TwoCables

Bump for a new question: which switches does the Das *Original* Professional have?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But if I'm going to go with a Das keyboard, then I would much prefer the Model S.

Metadot has a 30 day return policy. try it. it's very rare to get a bad experience with a mechanical keyboard and return it. people just fall in love with the switches. there was a thread last week here in the peripheral section about a person complaining the ***ka switches in the ABS M1 were too loud and they are louder than some of the Cherry MX switches but I think he didn't give up and ended up asking for another mechanical keyboard that was quieter.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Bump for a new question: which switches does the Das *Original* Professional have?

the Das Original, Das Model S Professional and Das Model S Ultimate use Cherry MX Blue switches. the Das Model S Professional Silent uses Cherry MX Brown switches.

the difference between Professional and Ultimate models are the keycaps. Ultimate models have blanks for touch typing.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

lmnop said:


> Metadot has a 30 day return policy. try it. it's very rare to get a bad experience with a mechanical keyboard and return it. people just fall in love with the switches. there was a thread last week here in the peripheral section about a person complaining the ***ka switches in the ABS M1 were too loud and they are louder than some of the Cherry MX switches but I think he didn't give up and ended up asking for another mechanical keyboard that was quieter.[/quotes]
> That's a coincidence. I know somebody who is considering the ABS M1. I'll tell him about this right now!
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lmnop*
> the Das Original, Das Model S Professional and Das Model S Ultimate use Cherry MX Blue switches. the Das Model S Professional Silent uses Cherry MX Brown switches.
> 
> the difference between Professional and Ultimate models are the keycaps. Ultimate models have blanks for touch typing.
> 
> Christine
> 
> I know about those other differences; I was only concerned about the switches. But thank you for making sure and thank you for telling me the answer to the question at hand. I'm only considering the Original because it has a left WinKey and I can always use something like AutoHotKey to make media keys if I really need them. Plus, it sounds like AHK allows multiple profiles that switch automatically when something is opened, such as a media player!


----------



## lmnop

with rubber dome keyboards you have to depress the key all the way down about 3-4mm with more force to ensure the keystroke registers (bottoming out)

but with mechanical switch keyboards you only need to depress the key about 2mm to the actuation point to ensure the keystroke registers and with less force, how much? as much as the tactile and audible feedback provide.

switches like the Cherry MX Black Linear, Alps Black and Alps Black copies that require more force make a clacking noise when you bottom them out because of the back plate.

we warned him not to bottom out. it's a habit that needs to be broken and it takes about 3 weeks to acclimate to a mechanical switch keyboard.

you can be very creative with AutoHotKey. they have a helpful forum and a variety of media scripts already available for Windows Vista and 7. I would learn the AutoHotKey language because there might be other macros you might want in the future.

Christine


----------



## RayvinAzn

Twocables, if you can forgo the USB hub (maybe just buy one for your desk?), a Deck Legend sounds perfect for you. No extra buttons, bone standard layout, left Win key, and admittedly no wrist wrest but those are easy enough to purchase. They're also the only backlit mechanical keyboards I know of, so you gain a feature for the loss of the USB hub. They come in two variants - linear and tactile. The linear version probably isn't for you, but the tactile version is very nice indeed.

One word of warning however - the tactile (and linear) switches are a bit heavy. I did a weight test of 70g on my board and the key still did not actuate. It's great for gaming, but it'll likely take you a few weeks to get used to the heavy throw of the switches for regular typing.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn*


Twocables, if you can forgo the USB hub (maybe just buy one for your desk?), a Deck Legend sounds perfect for you. No extra buttons, bone standard layout, left Win key, and admittedly no wrist wrest but those are easy enough to purchase. They're also the only backlit mechanical keyboards I know of, so you gain a feature for the loss of the USB hub. They come in two variants - linear and tactile. The linear version probably isn't for you, but the tactile version is very nice indeed.

One word of warning however - the tactile (and linear) switches are a bit heavy. I did a weight test of 70g on my board and the key still did not actuate. It's great for gaming, but it'll likely take you a few weeks to get used to the heavy throw of the switches for regular typing.


I found one that I'm really, really liking. Plus, I can just get one of these three USB cables and plug my mouse into it as though it were plugged right into the keyboard! I can easily attach one of those to where I need to place it!

Anyway, on with the keyboard that I am really liking!

The Deck Legend - Ice (tactile) 105-key keyboard!

Man. If I had this combined with one of those USB extension cables and also combined with AutoHotKey, then I would be absolutely set! Yeah, it's super expensive, but I'm ready to shell out this much money. Plus, it has the Cherry MX Clears (or probably the Cherry MX Browns by now).

What I like about this keyboard is that I'll get to stay with the backlit keys (which I've found to be extremely useful), I'll be able to have Cherry MX Clear or Brown switches (either one is fine, but I would rather have the Browns), I'll be able to use PS/2, and of course I'll use AutoHotKey!

Plus, it has the left WinKey which is probably the most important thing to me.

But hey: I have 3 weeks to decide, so this isn't over yet.


----------



## PropNut

Twocables, my Deck Legend ICE (Tactile) should be here today! I agree with everything you mentioned, I would like a USB port but I do have a hub built into my desk so that is almost as convenient.

I also picked up an IBM Model M off ebay the other day (37.00 with shipping) that I plan on modding into a Steampunk keyboard with antique keys, going a bit further with this one than I did with my Dell AT101W. I very much like the buckling spring switches.....takes me back to the day


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PropNut* 
Twocables, my Deck Legend ICE (Tactile) should be here today! I agree with everything you mentioned, I would like a USB port but I do have a hub built into my desk so that is almost as convenient.

I also picked up an IBM Model M off ebay the other day (37.00 with shipping) that I plan on modding into a Steampunk keyboard with antique keys, going a bit further with this one than I did with my Dell AT101W. I very much like the buckling spring switches.....takes me back to the day









Oh wow! I most definitely want to know what you think of this keyboard the minute you have something to say about it!

These next 3 weeks are sure to be fun for me.


----------



## Manyak

Well hey, just go with whatever you think you'll like







.

And by the way, the Das also supports PS/2. It has two plugs at the end, one for the keyboard one for the hub, and the keyboard plug can be used with one of those little USB->PS/2 plugs (which I think it comes with anyway).


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Well hey, just go with whatever you think you'll like







.

And by the way, the Das also supports PS/2. It has two plugs at the end, one for the keyboard one for the hub, and the keyboard plug can be used with one of those little USB->PS/2 plugs (which I think it comes with anyway).

Yeah, I'm definitely going to make sure I can use PS/2 instead.

By the way: how loud are the Cherry MX Blues anyway?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Yeah, I'm definitely going to make sure I can use PS/2 instead.

By the way: how loud are the Cherry MX Blues anyway?

It's kind of hard to gauge loudness







. They'd probably annoy anyone sitting in the room with you, but if you close the door noone outside should hear them without sticking their ear to the door. Of course, we're only talking about the click here, not the sound of you bottoming out like you will at first.

Though the thing with clicky switches is that by the time you stop bottoming out, your mind also kind of blocks out their sound. Like if you've ever lived on a busy street or by a train station, eventually you just stop hearing the cars/train pass by? Kind of like that. Except in this case, when the noise skips a bit (like if you miss a key or hit one extra) you notice immediately.


----------



## Kyleson

I am wondering why the cherry blues have a 9 compared to cherry browns 8 for gaming out of 10?

Also I can't seem to find the geekhack website that showed the amount of force needed to actuate a keystroke. Can someone please link me it?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kyleson* 
I am wondering why the cherry blues have a 9 compared to cherry browns 8 for gaming out of 10?

Also I can't seem to find the geekhack website that showed the amount of force needed to actuate a keystroke. Can someone please link me it?

I think the GeekHack page is this one:

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?tit...l+things+topre

Anyway, the reason why the Browns aren't as good as the Blues for gaming is because the Browns are slightly easier to press and therefore it's easier to accidentally activate keys that you didn't intend to activate. Some people have accuracy problems that are nearly impossible to overcome, so that's why the MX Blacks have a the best gaming rating among these three MX switches. That's why Steelseries used the Cherry MX Black switch in the 7G. They require more force and are smoother and so they're best suited for gaming.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I think the GeekHack page is this one:

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?tit...l+things+topre

Anyway, the reason why the Browns aren't as good as the Blues for gaming is because the Browns are slightly easier to press and therefore it's easier to accidentally activate keys that you didn't intend to activate. Some people have accuracy problems that are nearly impossible to overcome, so that's why the MX Blacks have a the best gaming rating among these three MX switches. That's why Steelseries used the Cherry MX Black switch in the 7G. They require more force and are smoother and so they're best suited for gaming.


Another reason that MX Blacks are best for gaming is simply because they are linear. When gaming you're going to be bottoming out no matter what switch you get or how used to typing on them you are. So the tactile bump is pretty useless. And the actuation and release points are at the _exact_ same positions when depressing/releasing the key. With Blues and Browns they aren't. You can see this in the force graph in the OP.


----------



## clownfart

I don't believe that light keys are worse for gaming. Like touch typing, gaming is all about muscle memory. This is a non issue unless you're new to PC gaming.

I do agree that a linear switch is better though, but I think a red MX switch would be superior.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clownfart* 
I don't believe that light keys are worse for gaming. Like touch typing, gaming is all about muscle memory. This is a non issue unless you're new to PC gaming.

I do agree that a linear switch is better though, but I think a red MX switch would be superior.

Whoa How many MX switches _are_ there?

Oh, and to everyone: does the lettering on the Majestouch keys wear off after a while? How about these other keyboards below?

iOne Scorpius M10
Deck Legend - Ice (tactile)
Das Original Professional
Unicomp SpaceSaver 104


----------



## Crazy9000

Well it's basically impossible for the lettering to wear off on the decks.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Whoa How many MX switches _are _there?

Oh, and to everyone: does the lettering on the Majestouch keys wear off after a while? Yes How about these other keyboards below?

iOne Scorpius M10 - I forget
Deck Legend - Ice (tactile) - won't wear off, dyesub
Das Original Professional - won't wear off, lasered
Unicomp SpaceSaver 104 - won't wear off, dyesub


http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?tit...hes+and+boards

Rest of the answers are in the quote.


----------



## PropNut

My Deck Legend Ice (Tactile) arrived today....so far it is disappointing. The keys feel pretty much the same as my Dell AT101W. I do like the keyboard but I am not sure the backlighting was worth 180.00.

What might be annoying me is that my IBM Model M arrived yesterday and there is no comparison, the IBM buckling springs are far superior to the Cherry clear switches. (well, they just feel better to me) and it was only 24.00 (ebay) in almost new condition. Again, I really like the backlighting but I am not at all sure I like the feel of these keys...they feel...sloppy compared to the IBM (even to the Dell for that matter but that might be familiarity with the Dell)


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


My Deck Legend Ice (Tactile) arrived today....so far it is disappointing. The keys feel pretty much the same as my Dell AT101W. I do like the keyboard but I am not sure the backlighting was worth 180.00.

What might be annoying me is that my IBM Model M arrived yesterday and there is no comparison, the IBM buckling springs are far superior to the Cherry clear switches. (well, they just feel better to me) and it was only 24.00 (ebay) in almost new condition. Again, I really like the backlighting but I am not at all sure I like the feel of these keys...they feel...sloppy compared to the IBM (even to the Dell for that matter but that might be familiarity with the Dell)


The tactile bump you're feeling works a _lot_ better on browns. Yeah it's still very 'rounded', but after your fingers adjust to the really light force the bumps become a lot more noticeable on their own. But with Clears, because they require more force, they will always feel a bit sloppy.

If anything you could pick up a super cheap cherry-based keyboard off of ebay with another switch type and just swap them into the Deck. Or just take advantage of their 30-day "return it if you don't like it" policy.


----------



## PropNut

I know you have gone over this before (I read it maybe a year ago) but to save me some time, how hard is it to change the switches?


----------



## clownfart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


I know you have gone over this before (I read it maybe a year ago) but to save me some time, how hard is it to change the switches?


Dunno how they are mounted on Deck boards, but this guide should give you a pretty good starting point.

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:7486


----------



## lmnop

the iOne Scorpius M10 keycaps are laser etched.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clownfart*


Dunno how they are mounted on Deck boards, but this guide should give you a pretty good starting point.

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:7486


Those pictures make it look so much harder than it really is, lol.

There are two contact pins on the bottom of each switch. Desolder these from the PCB and you can pop the switch right out.


----------



## lmnop

looks like Deck stopped making the 82 Toxic edition. only the 82 Ice edition is available on their website.

Christine


----------



## yawnbox

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


looks like Deck stopped making the 82 Toxic edition. only the 82 Ice edition is available on their website.

Christine


I noticed this too and am disappointed. If I were to purchase a Deck, it would have been that one.


----------



## Kaankin

Well i had to register to post a comment, read all posts from last year and was about to pull the trigger on the Deck Frost tactile until i read the last comment from PropNut and now i'm back to square one!








Well just to add to the fire i found this website http://www.guru-board.com/ looks like you can configure and do a lot of things to it and has hub and 3 types of cherry keys including reds! Bad thing no 10key and wont be available until 4thQ.


----------



## IEATFISH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kaankin* 
Well i had to register to post a comment, read all posts from last year and was about to pull the trigger on the Deck Frost tactile until i read the last comment from PropNut and now i'm back to square one!








Well just to add to the fire i found this website http://www.guru-board.com/ looks like you can configure and do a lot of things to it and has hub and 3 types of cherry keys including reds! Bad thing no 10key and wont be available until 4thQ.

Those look pretty sweet. I'd definitely consider picking one of those up if I didn't have my Filco. And depending on the configuration options, I might even have to get one anyway.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kaankin* 
Well i had to register to post a comment, read all posts from last year and was about to pull the trigger on the Deck Frost tactile until i read the last comment from PropNut and now i'm back to square one!








Well just to add to the fire i found this website http://www.guru-board.com/ looks like you can configure and do a lot of things to it and has hub and 3 types of cherry keys including reds! Bad thing no 10key and wont be available until 4thQ.

Wow, those are nice. I just might pick one up when they're out to carry with me when I travel. My only concern is the printing method on the keys. I kind of hope that they're double-shot but I'm afraid to get my hopes up.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Those look nice. I'll have to wait to see what their pricing is though.

Apparently it was started by a group from GeekHack?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Those look nice. I'll have to wait to see what their pricing is though.

Apparently it was started by a group from GeekHack?


It was actually started by just one guy who made his own keyboard like that. But yeah, on geekhack.


----------



## clownfart

Actually I'm pretty sure some guy modded a keyboard and everyone liked it, so he decided to start selling them.

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:4917


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Whoa How many MX switches _are _there?

Oh, and to everyone: does the lettering on the Majestouch keys wear off after a while? Yes How about these other keyboards below?

iOne Scorpius M10 - I forget
Deck Legend - Ice (tactile) - won't wear off, dyesub
Das Original Professional - won't wear off, lasered
Unicomp SpaceSaver 104 - won't wear off, dyesub


http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?tit...hes+and+boards

Rest of the answers are in the quote.


Whoa, this is good to know. Thank you! Approximately how long did it take for the lettering to wear off on your Majestouch?

Oh yeah, and I watched a video yesterday of some guy who was reviewing the Das Original Professional who complained that the lettering wore off on his, so he no longer recommends this board. Here's the video:





 (I purposely made sure it's not embedded)

So, I guess if this is true, then I may have to re-think it. I guess I'm so picky that I would much rather not have the lettering wear off.

But fortunately, I have a little over 2Â½ weeks before I'm able to make a purchase.


----------



## lmnop

lowpoly is the one with the Cherry MX 5000 Ergoplus. bastard.

that is impossible. the keycaps on the Das are laser etched. my Microsoft Comfort Curve 3000 is silk screened and it only took about 8 months before I started losing letters. it varies.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Whoa, this is good to know. Thank you! Approximately how long did it take for the lettering to wear off on your Majestouch?

Oh yeah, and I watched a video yesterday of some guy who was reviewing the Das Original Professional who complained that the lettering wore off on his, so he no longer recommends this board. Here's the video:





 (I purposely made sure it's not embedded)

So, I guess if this is true, then I may have to re-think it. I guess I'm so picky that I would much rather not have the lettering wear off.

But fortunately, I have a little over 2Â½ weeks before I'm able to make a purchase.


That's the Das III. The Das S uses Laser Etched keys which won't wear off.

And the lettering hasn't worn off of my Filco at all. But that's only because I'm using blank keys


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


That's the Das III. The Das S uses Laser Etched keys which won't wear off.


I just noticed that the Das Original Professional does not have laser etched keys whereas the Model S mentions it.

So is the Das Original Professional the Das III?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


And the lettering hasn't worn off of my Filco at all. But that's only because I'm using blank keys










lol

So if it had lettering, do you suppose that it would be completely worn off by now? I mean, if so, then how long have you had it?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I just noticed that the Das Original Professional does not have laser etched keys whereas the Model S mentions it.

So is the Das Original Professional the Das III?

lol

So if it had lettering, do you suppose that it would be completely worn off by now? I mean, if so, then how long have you had it?

Yeah the Das Original = Das III. Technically it's the 3rd model they've released, and the Das S is the 4th. The first two were both rubber domes, and only came with blank keys.

Well I bought this board second hand (I originally had a tenkeyless one, but I sold it and got this instead). The person who owned it before me had bought it last August, and used it until November with lettered keys. And they didn't show any sign of wear.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Yeah the Das Original = Das III. Technically it's the 3rd model they've released, and the Das S is the 4th. The first two were both rubber domes, and only came with blank keys.

Well I bought this board second hand (I originally had a tenkeyless one, but I sold it and got this instead). The person who owned it before me had bought it last August, and used it until November with lettered keys. And they didn't show any sign of wear.

Hmm. I'm thinking that if the lettering wears off, then I'll just get blank key caps. I'm kinda testing it right now with my Lycosa's backlighting turned off, and meh.. it's not so bad at all. The only time I need to look down is for when I intend to press Ctrl+C or Ctrl+B and then miss. So if I miss, I look down to make sure I don't miss again.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Hmm. I'm thinking that if the lettering wears off, then I'll just get blank key caps. I'm kinda testing it right now with my Lycosa's backlighting turned off, and meh.. it's not so bad at all.

The nice thing with blank keycaps is that it keeps nubs off your PC


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
The nice thing with blank keycaps is that it keeps nubs off your PC









rofl then I guess I'm lucky because I don't have that problem.







At least not yet.


----------



## Manyak

Well I just finished some more work on the OP. It now includes info on keycap printing methods.


----------



## Crazy9000

For the blank keycaps, I have a problem when I try to do $ or something like that, but as far as the typing goes it's fine. Just keep in mind you usually don't notice glancing down for F keys, ect.


----------



## Ikrin

Whew... Just spent the last two hours or so cleaning each key on the IBM Model M that arrived today. It is rather a pleasure to type on, but still demands much adjustment, since I prefer the low profile keys of laptop keyboards. The keys aren't as bad as all the hair, lint, and dust under them... >.> Glad the keys come off easily. Will need to get a PS/2 to USB adapter before I can really test it.


----------



## MikersSU

Rep for Manyak. I've been sitting on the fence for a while and I think I may go for the Das S Professional. I've tried out the regular Professional at a Microcenter store a few hours ago and I really like it. From the description you've provided for the black switch, I think the blue would be the best fit for me.

I noticed that you haven't provided a score for the Das keyboards. I'd like some opinions on the Das S Professional. I do game and I switch back and forth from FPS to RPG's like Dragon Age and Neverwinter Nights.


----------



## Crazy9000

I really like the switches the das has for typing, but I wouldn't like them in a game myself.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MikersSU* 
Rep for Manyak.

O rly?

I saw the thread got updated with a ton of information and details about the different switches, went for the rep button and..... hes a Mod now, rep denied.


----------



## MikersSU

rep...in spirit.

Edit: I really wish some brick and mortar stores carried mechanical keyboards. Microcenter had the SIIG and the Das Professional. I wish I could try out the black switches and see for myself why they're better for gaming.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Wow, those are nice. I just might pick one up when they're out to carry with me when I travel. My only concern is the printing method on the keys. I kind of hope that they're double-shot but I'm afraid to get my hopes up.

For the price those things are likely to go for, you could probably pick up a HHKB Pro II.

Still, they do look very nice. I might have to pick one up just for the reds.


----------



## dmreeves

Excellent resource. I feel like I just learned everything I need to know. Now just get me to spend more than $10 on a keyboard!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Well I just finished some more work on the OP. It now includes info on keycap printing methods.

Nice! Thank you very much for doing that!!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MikersSU* 
rep...in spirit.

Edit: I really wish some brick and mortar stores carried mechanical keyboards. Microcenter had the SIIG and the Das Professional. I wish I could try out the black switches and see for myself why they're better for gaming.

One reason is because it's harder to accidentally press keys that you didn't intend to press. Some people hit more than 1 key at a time with most of their force being on the key they intend to hit, however this sometimes actuates the 2nd key. So the stiffer feel of the blacks helps to reduce the chances of this happening.

Or, sometimes people rest their fingers on other keys thereby accidentally pressing them. So the stiffer feel of the blacks helps to reduce the chances of this happening too.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn* 
For the price those things are likely to go for, you could probably pick up a HHKB Pro II.

Still, they do look very nice. I might have to pick one up just for the reds.

You mean the one that costs 260 dollars?

Btw has anyone mentioned that the das gets dirty, very quickly? its one of its downfalls of being so sleek and glossy.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
You mean the one that costs 260 dollars?

Btw has anyone mentioned that the das gets dirty, very quickly? its one of its downfalls of being so sleek and glossy.

Yeah, I've seen it mentioned a few times.


----------



## Manyak

Well crap, I've reached the limit for images in the OP. I can't add more info!!!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Well crap, I've reached the limit for images in the OP. I can't add more info!!!

Whoa lol

I was kinda wondering why the pic of the Deck board disappeared.


----------



## Syrillian

What an incredible guide. So informative and helpful.

Massive Mod-rep for Manyak.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Well crap, I've reached the limit for images in the OP. I can't add more info!!!


use tinypic.com and hotlink the image with img tags. I don't like uploading images to forums.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Except the limit is on IMG tags, not on uploaded pics. That includes off-site stuff.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


You mean the one that costs 260 dollars?

Btw has anyone mentioned that the das gets dirty, very quickly? its one of its downfalls of being so sleek and glossy.


it's like wearing white shoes they are going to show more visible dirt than black shoes but it doesn't mean they are going to accumulate more dirt.

the Das Model S has a new finish on it.

Christine


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Except the limit is on IMG tags, not on uploaded pics. That includes off-site stuff.


can't you use both?









Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


can't you use both?









Christine


Even uploaded pics need an IMG tag. So it doesn't make a difference.

The only way to get the guide finished and looking good seems to be to delete the first 4-5 pages of replies, this way I can have a few of my own posts right after each other.

I dunno how good of an idea it is though.


----------



## lmnop

ok when I suggested you spruce up the old mechanical keyboard guide I didn't think you would add this much.

for the key section what you should of did was write 4 short sentences describing pad printing vs. silk screening, laser etch, double shot and sub-dye than link them to the geekhack guide for more info. now the page lags when you load it because there is too many pictures.

you should remove the retro reviews on the mainstream models and rate them for gaming and typing under the switch technology section for example

change

Quote:



Link: Datasheet
Tactile: No
Clicky: No
Actuation Force: 60g (40g-80g overall)
Key Travel: 2mm to actuation, 4mm to bottom


to

Quote:



Link: Datasheet
Tactile: No
Clicky: No
Actuation Force: 60g (40g-80g overall)
Key Travel: 2mm to actuation, 4mm to bottom
Subjective Gaming:
Subjective Typing:


Christine


----------



## Manyak

Yeah the reviews are going to be changed to the way the Das S review is, except I think I'm also going to add "Case and Keycap Materals" to the list.

Link: Das Keyboard
Price: $129-$135
Switch Type: Cherry MX Blues (Professional, Ultimate), Cherry MX Browns (Silent)
Keycap Printing: Lasered (Professional, Silent), Blank (Ultimate)
Key Shape: Sculpted
Interface: PS/2, USB
Rollover: NKRO on PS/2, 6+4 key on USB
Layout: US ANSI, Left meta key replaced by Fn key
Extra Features: Media Keys (through Fn layer), USB Hub
Drawbacks: Shiny case attracts fingerprints, USB hub requires separate port

And the lag is because some of the pictures are large and are being resized on the fly, especially in the second post. They're taking up a nice chunk of memory. The new pics I've been putting up - of the switches and what not - are all very small.

Then again, you shouldn't be lagging at all. Even my laptop's SU7300 is coping with them perfectly.


----------



## lmnop

it's probably lagging because of the resizing. to solve your other dilemma what you can do is create a normal post in this thread, go back to the guide and hotlink the post id like this. a Table of Contents.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

I hate that though, it makes it too much of a pain to go through.


----------



## lmnop

<light bulb> you could create a PDF.









Christine


----------



## Manyak

Hrm, that's an idea. I think I'll do it.


----------



## olli3

There is a lot of pictures that are next to each other that could be made into 1 single image. For example the 2 pictures under the "blue" heading. Easy enough to do in paint/photoshop or whatever if you need to free up some IMG tags.


----------



## lmnop

if he makes a PDF he can have more freedom and a better palette to work with.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Good point.


----------



## olli3

true but I don't know if people would actually look at it if it were in PDF format, unless there is some way to display it in the forum? In fact what about those google documents you get, I've seen them embedded into the forum and if you could put pictures into that perhaps that would work, just an idea anyway


----------



## lmnop

I don't see the problem if he keeps it under a reasonable size. I think I know what your talking about olli. Manyak should look into that.

I still think PDF is the way to go. the mechanical keyboard guide has become bigger than a forum post.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Ok so I'm just going to clean up the first few pages of the thread to split the guide up into multiple posts. This way there can be a post on switches, a post on keycaps, a post listing keyboards, and so on.

Then when I'm done I'll also make it a PDF for people to download.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I think I heard someone say that the Model M's keycaps are double shot, but looking at them they look more dye sublimated than anything else.

But is there really a point to double shot molding? My keyboard is 21 years old and has probably had millions of keystrokes, and the letters aren't worn at _all_. Not one of them. And they look pretty high contrast to me.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I think I heard someone say that the Model M's keycaps are double shot, but looking at them they look more dye sublimated than anything else.

But is there really a point to double shot molding? My keyboard is 21 years old and has probably had millions of keystrokes, and the letters aren't worn at _all_. Not one of them. And they look pretty high contrast to me.

Model M keys _are_ dyesub. You might have misinterpreted "two-piece keycaps" as double-shot molding. Or maybe the person who told you did.










Look at the pics at the beginning of the thread, and compare the two cherry keycaps. Not all dye sublimation is as nice as IBM's was. And the contrast difference is a lot more noticeable on black keys.


----------



## clownfart

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
it's probably lagging because of the resizing. to solve your other dilemma what you can do is create a normal post in this thread, go back to the guide and hotlink the post id like this. a Table of Contents.

Christine

I think permalinks work better for that.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

That's probably what happened.

But how much more does doubleshot injection cost than dyesub? Just a guess, I mean, doesn't need to be exact. But it seems to me that dyesub is good enough for anyone if it can last this long without fading or wearing down.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
That's probably what happened.

But how much more does doubleshot injection cost than dyesub? Just a guess, I mean, doesn't need to be exact. But it seems to me that dyesub is good enough for anyone if it can last this long without fading or wearing down.

Yeah dyesub and double shot are pretty much equal in the fact that you can't complain about either one.

The cost difference between the two depends on how many you order. With double shot molding, they have to create _two_ custom molds for each key depending on what lettering you want and the stem you want, and that's where 90% of the cost comes from. If you're ordering 500,000 of each key there won't be much of a difference. But if you're ordering only like 100 sets you're better off just buying replacement keyboards than getting double shot molded caps.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

You are truly an infinite font of knowledge and wisdom.


----------



## lmnop

March 2009.

Quote:

Mellisa from Signature Plastics took the time to fill out a nice quote for me:
Pricing for the full 104 keyboard:

Blanks / Pad Printed / Sublimated
1 set $ 518.71 / set $ 795.79 / set $ 792.69 /
set
2 sets $ 269.01 / set $ 443.56 / set $ 420.40 /
set
3 sets $ 185.78 / set $ 326.14 / set $ 296.30 /
set
4 sets $ 144.15 / set $ 267.44 / set $ 234.25 /
set
5 sets $ 119.18 / set $ 232.21 / set $ 197.03 /
set
10 sets $ 69.24 / set $ 161.76 / set $ 122.56 / set

Pricing for the 'Alphabet and Number' section (total of 36 single size keys)
Blanks / Pad Printed / Sublimated
1 set $ 148.33 / set $ 232.33 / set $ 265.09 /
set
2 sets $ 76.98 / set $ 128.90 / set $ 145.65 /
set
3 sets $ 53.20 / set $ 94.42 / set $ 105.80 /
set
4 sets $ 41.31 / set $ 77.19 / set $ 85.89 /
set
5 sets $ 34.18 / set $ 68.84 / set $ 73.94 /
set
10 sets $ 19.91 / set $ 46.16 / set $ 50.05 / set
Christine


----------



## Manyak

Damn, no quote for double shot.


----------



## lmnop

it wouldn't be cheap. for something like this you need a group order and geekhack has tried that a couple times I think. you're always going to have people that drop out or people that don't want what you're ordering.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
it wouldn't be cheap. for something like this you need a group order and geekhack has tried that a couple times I think. you're always going to have people that drop out or people that don't want what you're ordering.

Christine

Yeah I know, I was just talking about having it for reference.


----------



## Ikrin

How about screenshots of each pdf page as an image, which can be viewed from the thumbnails?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ikrin* 
How about screenshots of each pdf page as an image, which can be viewed from the thumbnails?

Do you mean attaching the images instead of relying on inserting them into the post? Because regardless of how they are inserted, there is still a limit. But if you attach the ones that cannot be inserted due to the limit, then you can type "See attached image named _______".


----------



## Dolan

How can Steelseries 7G have laser etched keycaps when it's black?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dolan*


How can Steelseries 7G have laser etched keycaps when it's black?


From the OP of this thread:

Quote:



*Laser Etching*
Laser etched keys are...well...the name says it all. They feel a bit scratchy. The process works best on light colored keys because the letter _always_ comes out black, since that's the color of burnt plastic. So when it's used on black keys, *a paint filler is poured into it*, as is done with the Das S.


----------



## Bizong

I'm going to be buying one of the Filco keyboards soon, but before i do i want to know which key switch i should get. I game much more than i type, the only time i really type is on forums and i usually don't type walls of text. I game a good bit but the only game i play alot is World of Warcraft. I guess my question is if i only play that game is it worth getting the cherry black's or should i go for browns or maybe even blues. I'm not really sure, Also i've never used a mechanical keyboard before. I don't want to blow my money and then not like the keyboard because of the switch i chose.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bizong* 
I'm going to be buying one of the Filco keyboards soon, but before i do i want to know which key switch i should get. I game much more than i type, the only time i really type is on forums and i usually don't type walls of text. I game a good bit but the only game i play alot is World of Warcraft. I guess my question is if i only play that game is it worth getting the cherry black's or should i go for browns or maybe even blues. I'm not really sure, Also i've never used a mechanical keyboard before. I don't want to blow my money and then not like the keyboard because of the switch i chose.

Do you ever have a problem where you sometimes apply too much pressure on keys you have no intention or pressing? Or, do you sometimes hit 2 keys at once and activate both even though you're applying much more pressure to the key you intended to press?

I mean, the thing that people like about the Blacks is that they help reduce the chances of accidental key presses because the switch requires a little bit more force to activate them.

But considering that the main game is WoW, I'm going to guess that the Cherry MX Blues might be the best bet.


----------



## Bizong

Nah i don't really have a problem with applying more pressure to the key i don't want to press. I generally always have my middle finger on the W key with my pointer finger wanting to press "4" for example and i never accidentally press W. I have a fairly light key press i would say, I generally stay relaxed while playing games. So this is sounding like i should go blue. Oh and also i use my pinky finger alot for "control" would blacks make my pinky finger get tired easier. I do game for long amounts of time even though it is just wow.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Do you mean attaching the images instead of relying on inserting them into the post? Because regardless of how they are inserted, there is still a limit. But if you attach the ones that cannot be inserted due to the limit, then you can type "See attached image named _______".

No, it is just as I said. Take each PDF PAGE of the information, which should not exceed the amount of images that have been posted, and turn them into images that are then attached. Or, they can be directly inserted, thus saving lots of room either way.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Do you mean attaching the images instead of relying on inserting them into the post? Because regardless of how they are inserted, there is still a limit. But if you attach the ones that cannot be inserted due to the limit, then you can type "See attached image named _______".


No, it is just as I said. Take each PDF PAGE of the information, which should not exceed the amount of images that have been posted, and turn them into images that are then attached.


That's what I meant when I asked "Do you mean attaching the images instead of relying on inserting them into the post".

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


Or, they can be directly inserted, thus saving lots of room either way.


This is exactly what I'm talking about: insert as many as possible, then attach the ones that cannot be inserted using the







tags. In fact, I should have remembered that attached images can be inserted anywhere by just using the code (more on that later, if necessary).

So, we were on the same page.


----------



## TwoCables

If I bought the original Majestouch that does not have the full NKRO, and if I used the included PS/2 adapter, then would I still be limited to 6 simultaneous keystrokes plus 4 modifiers?

The only thing that's drawing me to the NKRO model is just because I'm an All-or-Nothing type of guy, but the non-NKRO model is $120 shipped while the NKRO model is $145.


----------



## Manyak

The non NKRO one is like any other keyboard. Certain combinations will work, others won't. I actually don't know a single person that bought it though, so I don't know who to ask to find out what the matrix is like. But if it's the standard IBM one then at least WASD gaming will be fine.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
The non NKRO one is like any other keyboard. Certain combinations will work, others won't. I actually don't know a single person that bought it though, so I don't know who to ask to find out what the matrix is like. But if it's the standard IBM one then at least WASD gaming will be fine.

Hmm, then I'm goin' with my instincts and getting the NKRO model.


----------



## Crazy9000

The main problem I have with non-NKRO keyboards is when I'm playing tony hawk, I can't do spacebar+v+up+right+z usually.


----------



## lmnop

having trouble deciding on what colored switch to get? look no further.

Gaming 90%, Talk to Yahoo Ho's 10% = Cherry MX Black
Gaming 50%, Talk to Yahoo Ho's 50% = Cherry MX Brown
Gaming 10%, Talk to Yahoo Ho's 90% = Cherry MX Blue

cue applause

Christine


----------



## olli3

Do all boards with MX blue switches feel the same? I thinking about buying a cherry board but its a considerable amount cheaper than say a Filco, is that just because of the general build quality, or is the typing quality actually better on a Filco than a cheaper MX blue keyboard?

This is the board im looking at getting - http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=510

Anyone used it and can tell me if its good?


----------



## lmnop

not really the audible and tactile feedback slightly vary keyboard to keyboard. one factor is how the Cherry MX Blue switches are mounted for example if they are mounted with a backplate or not. another factor is how they are mounted to the backplate the iOne Scorpius M10 and Das Ultimate Professional both have a backplate but sound differently. another factor is the type of keycaps used.

that keyboard has 2 n-Key rollover and no backplate. according to a korean site the housing have been known to warp probably due to the weight of the switches with no support of a backplate.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
having trouble deciding on what colored switch to get? look no further.

Gaming 90%, Talk to Yahoo Ho's 10% = Cherry MX Black
Gaming 50%, Talk to Yahoo Ho's 50% = Cherry MX Brown
Gaming 10%, Talk to Yahoo Ho's 90% = Cherry MX Blue

cue applause

Christine

Oh cmon, Blues aren't as bad at gaming as Blacks are at typing.


----------



## kppanic

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
having trouble deciding on what colored switch to get? look no further.

Gaming 90%, Talk to Yahoo Ho's 10% = Cherry MX Black
Gaming 50%, Talk to Yahoo Ho's 50% = Cherry MX Brown
Gaming 10%, Talk to Yahoo Ho's 90% = Cherry MX Blue

cue applause

Christine

Ahh a blue hater, aren't we?









Blue isn't that bad, I myself find it better than other switches!


----------



## yawnbox

i've really enjoyed gaming with blues. but i have no comparison. it is better than my old razer lycosa.


----------



## pow3rtr1p

Freaking Filco needs to get off their butts and ship some Otaku boards before I break down and buy a Realforce...


----------



## kppanic

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pow3rtr1p*


Freaking Filco needs to get off their butts and ship some Otaku boards before I break down and buy a Realforce...


Yeah i've been waiting for Filco Brown Tenkeyless....

I've been eyeing the HHKB2 now JUST BECAUSE! haha


----------



## lmnop

what are you talking about I am typing on blues as we speak. I don't like the click for gaming. I never got to use my steelseries 7g because it came DOA but when I depressed a couple blacks my instincts told me they were better for gaming.

Christine


----------



## olli3

Just bought a Filco 105 key with MX browns, whooops! Hope its worth it lol.


----------



## MikersSU

I love the blue switches and I game. I play FPS's and RPG's mostly. I really like the blue switches but as Manyak pointed out a good number of times in this thread, it's all about personal preferences.

Now I just have to decide whether I want to sell my G19 or not...


----------



## wanderer

I've decided to get a Filco Majestouch Brown, since I both type and play games a lot. The only thing I'm wondering is how useful NKRO would be. Right now I'm using some crappy HP keyboard, and I haven't noticed myself pressing so many that they don't register. Then again, I'll already be spending a bunch of money on this.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wanderer*


I've decided to get a Filco Majestouch Brown, since I both type and play games a lot. The only thing I'm wondering is how useful NKRO would be. Right now I'm using some crappy HP keyboard, and I haven't noticed myself pressing so many that they don't register. Then again, I'll already be spending a bunch of money on this.


I think it's worth it. These boards last forever, and you might as well be guaranteed that you won't ever run into problems no matter what you do.


----------



## olli3

Yeah that's what I figured as well, since these boards last so long you may as well get all the features that you may want in the future so you don't end up having to buy a new one







Although knowing me I will end up with about 100 keyboards like I did with mice Â¬_Â¬ Always end up going back to the first one I had anyway haha.


----------



## getllamasfast

Does anyone know if I can use autohotkey to make a virtual numpad for my tenkeyless?


----------



## soloz2

loving my brown tenkeyless


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *getllamasfast*


Does anyone know if I can use autohotkey to make a virtual numpad for my tenkeyless?


Absolutely


----------



## TwoCables

I hope to be ordering the Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO as early as March 3rd, and I'm definitely going to use AutoHotKey. But I'm worried about a few things since I'm so new to this. You see, I'm currently using the Lycosa's media keys and I also have 2 profiles: in 1 profile, I have F8 and F10 programmed to open a specific Notepad document and MS Paint, respectively. But in the other profile, I purposely don't have any keys programmed at all, except that I have the left WinKey disabled. Also, when I open the specifed game that uses the 2nd Profile, the Lycosa driver automatically switches to the profile that has no programmed keys and a disabled WinKey.

So, here's why I'm posting: can AHK be configured to behave exactly as described above? Not only would I need it to be like above, I would also need to use AHK to configure the keyboard so that I always have media keys no matter which profile I'm in.

In other words, I'll need AHK to do this:

Have 2 profiles where they are switched automatically upon opening a specific game.
Have 1 of those profiles have no programmed keys except for a disabled WinKey.
Have media keys (Play/Pause, Stop, Prev, Next, Vol Up, Vol Down, Mute) regardless of which profile is in use.
Maybe be able to disable the WinKey whenever I want.
Can all of these things be done? If not, then what will I be able to do? And of course, I will definitely need help setting AHK up when I finally have the new keyboard.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Haven't tinkered with it a *whole* lot, but what you're specifying doesn't seem too complicated at all.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Haven't tinkered with it a *whole* lot, but what you're specifying doesn't seem too complicated at all.


Ok, but I'm looking for a definitive answer. I am hoping somebody can answer based on their own experience with it.


----------



## getllamasfast

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Absolutely










Awesome!

I just made the script and here it is in case anyone else wants it.









It maps the numpad to your right hand's default position on the keyboard.

Code:


Code:


^!u::Send {Numpad1}
^!i::Send {Numpad2}
^!o::Send {Numpad3}
^!j::Send {Numpad4}
^!k::Send {Numpad5}
^!l::Send {Numpad6}
^!n::Send {Numpad7}
^!m::Send {Numpad8}
^!,::Send {Numpad9}


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Ok, but I'm looking for a definitive answer. I am hoping somebody can answer based on their own experience with it.

you use if title statements like this

Quote:

SetTitleMatchMode, 2
IfWinExist, Hotmail
{
MsgBox, Already signed in.
}
Else
{
var=USERNAME
var2=PASSWORD

etc...
there are 3 SetWinTitleMatchMode(s)

SetWinTitleMatchMode 1 must have string at the beginning of the titlebar (ex Windows Live Hotmail)
SetWinTitleMatchMode 2 can have the string anywhere in the titlebar (ex Hotmail)
SetWinTitleMatchMode 3 must contain the exact string in titlebar (ex Windows Live Hotmail - Windows Internet Explorer)

AutoHotKey can be as complicated as you want it to be like I said it has a very complex language. i'm pretty sure it can do everything you're asking.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
you use if title statements like this

Code:



Code:


SetTitleMatchMode, 2
IfWinExist, Hotmail
 {
  MsgBox, Already signed in.
 }
Else
 {
  var=USERNAME
  var2=PASSWORD

etc...

there are 3 SetWinTitleMatchMode(s)

SetWinTitleMatchMode 1 must have string at the beginning of the titlebar (ex Windows Live Hotmail)
SetWinTitleMatchMode 2 can have the string anywhere in the titlebar (ex Hotmail)
SetWinTitleMatchMode 3 must contain the exact string in titlebar (ex Windows Live Hotmail - Windows Internet Explorer)

AutoHotKey can be as complicated as you want it to be like I said it has a very complex language. i'm pretty sure it can do everything you're asking.

Christine

I admit that it's cool being able to have AHK automatically perform things like logging me into OCN when it sees "Overclock.net" in the titlebar, however I'm currently only interested in having it feel like there are multiple profiles.

So let's say I'm just doing my thing here on OCN and then I want to play that one game. So, I open that game, and the current behavior of the Lycosa driver is that it switches to a different profile where I have different keyboard customizations. That's what I need. And I also need to be able to set each profile up differently (that is, if AHK can do separate profiles like that).

But, I also need it to *always* have media keys programmed to keys that I will obviously designate.

I will also need the WinKey to be disabled when I open this game. So, I'll need to either be able to disable it whenever I want, or I will need to be able to set that up in the profile.

So, I need multiple profiles, automatic profile switching when the assigned program is open, and the ability to disable the WinKey for the profile that I'll need to use for that specific game (it's a game where it's particularly easy to accidentally press it). But I also need to be able to have media keys at all times no matter what.

To be clear, I don't need AHK to automatically perform tasks for me, such as logging me in as soon as it sees a specific title (at least not yet).


----------



## lmnop

someone once asked if AutoHotKey can access Razer driver settings and one person replied yes you could use dllcall but you would have to create a dll for it.

if you can do that i'm pretty sure you can open a script or create a profile.

you can even create graphics for example OSD (on screen display)

Quote:

;_________________________________________________
;_______User Settings_____________________________

; Make customisation only in this area or hotkey area only!!

; The percentage by which to raise or lower the volume each time:
vol_Step = 4

; How long to display the volume level bar graphs:
vol_DisplayTime = 2000

; Master Volume Bar color (see the help file to use more
; precise shades):
vol_CBM = Red

; Wave Volume Bar color
vol_CBW = Blue

; Background color
vol_CW = Silver

; Bar's screen position. Use -1 to center the bar in that dimension:
vol_PosX = -1
vol_PosY = -1
vol_Width = 150 ; width of bar
vol_Thick = 12 ; thickness of bar

; If your keyboard has multimedia buttons for Volume, you can
; try changing the below hotkeys to use them by specifying
; Volume_Up, ^Volume_Up, Volume_Down, and ^Volume_Down:
HotKey, #Up, vol_MasterUp ; Win+UpArrow
HotKey, #Down, vol_MasterDown
HotKey, +#Up, vol_WaveUp ; Shift+Win+UpArrow
HotKey, +#Down, vol_WaveDown

;___________________________________________
;_____Auto Execute Section__________________

; DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING HERE (unless you know what you're doing).

vol_BarOptionsMaster = 1:B ZH%vol_Thick% ZX0 ZY0 W%vol_Width% CB%vol_CBM% CW%vol_CW%
vol_BarOptionsWave = 2:B ZH%vol_Thick% ZX0 ZY0 W%vol_Width% CB%vol_CBW% CW%vol_CW%

; If the X position has been specified, add it to the options.
; Otherwise, omit it to center the bar horizontally:
if vol_PosX >= 0
{
vol_BarOptionsMaster = %vol_BarOptionsMaster% X%vol_PosX%
vol_BarOptionsWave = %vol_BarOptionsWave% X%vol_PosX%
}

; If the Y position has been specified, add it to the options.
; Otherwise, omit it to have it calculated later:
if vol_PosY >= 0
{
vol_BarOptionsMaster = %vol_BarOptionsMaster% Y%vol_PosY%
vol_PosY_wave = %vol_PosY%
vol_PosY_wave += %vol_Thick%
vol_BarOptionsWave = %vol_BarOptionsWave% Y%vol_PosY_wave%
}

#SingleInstance
SetBatchLines, 10ms
Return

;___________________________________________

vol_WaveUp:
SoundSet, +%vol_Step%, Wave
Gosub, vol_ShowBars
return

vol_WaveDown:
SoundSet, -%vol_Step%, Wave
Gosub, vol_ShowBars
return

vol_MasterUp:
SoundSet, +%vol_Step%
Gosub, vol_ShowBars
return

vol_MasterDown:
SoundSet, -%vol_Step%
Gosub, vol_ShowBars
return

vol_ShowBars:
; To prevent the "flashing" effect, only create the bar window if it
; doesn't already exist:
IfWinNotExist, vol_Wave
Progress, %vol_BarOptionsWave%, , , vol_Wave
IfWinNotExist, vol_Master
{
; Calculate position here in case screen resolution changes while
; the script is running:
if vol_PosY < 0
{
; Create the Wave bar just above the Master bar:
WinGetPos, , vol_Wave_Posy, , , vol_Wave
vol_Wave_Posy -= %vol_Thick%
Progress, %vol_BarOptionsMaster% Y%vol_Wave_Posy%, , , vol_Master
}
else
Progress, %vol_BarOptionsMaster%, , , vol_Master
}
; Get both volumes in case the user or an external program changed them:
SoundGet, vol_Master, Master
SoundGet, vol_Wave, Wave
Progress, 1:%vol_Master%
Progress, 2:%vol_Wave%
SetTimer, vol_BarOff, %vol_DisplayTime%
return

vol_BarOff:
SetTimer, vol_BarOff, off
Progress, 1:Off
Progress, 2:Off
return
what this does is when you press Fn + Cursor Up or Cursor Down (master volume) or Fn + Shift + Cursor Up or Cursor Down (wave volume) a small graphic bar comes on screen like a progress bar in either green or red that indicates a volume increase or volume decrease.

there is a dozen different ways to create a media key you can make a OSD, a popup a dialog with a editbox to enter a value, automatic, etc.

you should ask on the AutoHotKey forum I have only spent 20 mins with it but I have programming experience.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Whoa. It looks like this is something that will only get better for me with time (due to me learning, as I've never done any programming). Thank you, Christine!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


In other words, I'll need AHK to do this:

Have 2 profiles where they are switched automatically upon opening a specific game.
Have 1 of those profiles have no programmed keys except for a disabled WinKey.
Have media keys (Play/Pause, Stop, Prev, Next, Vol Up, Vol Down, Mute) regardless of which profile is in use.
Maybe be able to disable the WinKey whenever I want.
Can all of these things be done? If not, then what will I be able to do? And of course, I will definitely need help setting AHK up when I finally have the new keyboard.


I know for a fact that the last 3 are definitely doable, but I never really looked at the fancier commands because I never needed them. It looks like christine's got it anyway. Worst case scenario what you could do is convert the AHK script into an exe (pretty simple, there are directions on the site), and then create a batch file that loads the script exe and then the game.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I know for a fact that the last 3 are definitely doable, but I never really looked at the fancier commands because I never needed them. It looks like christine's got it anyway. Worst case scenario what you could do is convert the AHK script into an exe (pretty simple, there are directions on the site), and then create a batch file that loads the script exe and then the game.


Interesting! It actually sounds worth the effort to me. I also took a peek at AHK's site and I noticed there are many pages that will be able to help me out, so I'm sure that once my desire to do this is strong enough (like once I actually get the keyboard), then I might even be helping others with their scripts.

I owe it all to you guys, though.


----------



## olli3

Never knew that AHK could do things that in depth, pretty cool! Defiantly going to have a play around with it when I get my new board.


----------



## TwoCables

I'm happy to announce that Phase 1 - which is eliminating the need to have a USB port on my keyboard - is complete. I purchased a 6-foot USB extension cable from MonoPrice.com and attached it to a convenient place for my mouse. This allows me to retain a completely wireless feel by eliminating the weight of the cable. Now the entire weight of the cable is resting on my keyboard tray!

I also purchased a little 1.5-foot USB extension cable to extend the short cable of the Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO. After measuring, I discovered that I'm going to need it!

So yeah, I'm 1 step closer!


----------



## Manyak

The guide has been updated again.

But it's still got a ways to go.


----------



## Kaankin

Regarding the Filco full KB would it be possible to add a mini usb hub? I can't seem to find any pics from the front and side right to see if there is any room. Is there?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kaankin*


Regarding the Filco full KB would it be possible to add a mini usb hub? I can't seem to find any pics from the front and side right to see if there is any room. Is there?


Yes, but it'll have to be one of those ultra small ones.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kaankin*


Regarding the Filco full KB would it be possible to add a mini usb hub? I can't seem to find any pics from the front and side right to see if there is any room. Is there?


I don't think there is. I suppose you could mod it, but it would probably be easier to get a board that already has one. I recommend Das if you want a keyboard with a USB hub and/or media keys.


----------



## TwoCables

The Das doesn't have the Mini-B 5-pin USB port on it. It just has the Female A-type.


----------



## Kaankin

Well I just had a look at the DAS this weekend and didn't like the feel of the whole KB and didn't like the clicky cherry blues (too loud) so I'm thinking browns will be better for me, I also had a look at Steel Series G7 and keys are too hard for everyday typing didn't like it.
I've been looking around online for cherry reds but nothing so far just that miniguru which won't be out until this fall but then that doesn't have Fn keys.
Filco seems pretty solid so I was thinking of mod to it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kaankin*


Well I just had a look at the DAS this weekend and didn't like the feel of the whole KB and didn't like the clicky cherry blues (too loud) so I'm thinking browns will be better for me, I also had a look at Steel Series G7 and keys are too hard for everyday typing didn't like it.
I've been looking around online for cherry reds but nothing so far just that miniguru which won't be out until this fall but then that doesn't have Fn keys.
Filco seems pretty solid so I was thinking of mod to it.


Have you seen any YouTube videos of what the Cherry MX Browns sound like? They're still loud, but they just don't have that tiny little metallic-like click. It's still kinda clacky.

Here are my search results for "filco majestouch cherry mx brown":

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rch_type=&aq=f


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Have you seen any YouTube videos of what the Cherry MX Browns sound like? They're still loud, but they just don't have that tiny little metallic-like click. It's still kinda clacky.

Here are my search results for "filco majestouch cherry mx brown":

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rch_type=&aq=f


They only make a sound when they're bottomed out. And of course when they snap back into the rest position, but every keyboard does that.


----------



## Kaankin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Yes, but it'll have to be one of those ultra small ones.


Cool thx!


----------



## Kaankin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Have you seen any YouTube videos of what the Cherry MX Browns sound like? They're still loud, but they just don't have that tiny little metallic-like click. It's still kinda clacky.

Here are my search results for "filco majestouch cherry mx brown":

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rch_type=&aq=f

I have seen some, I'm just going by what I've actually touched and didn't like the Das(blues) and the Steel Series(blacks). And didn't like the feel of the Das body which I'm sure it would be the same as the Silent model(brown keys). So either I'm going to got with Filco brns or wait a little longer and see if i can find something with cherry reds!


----------



## Kaankin

OOh hold a tick, my g/f is going to Hong Kong in a couple of weeks, think she can maybe find a board with cherry reds?


----------



## Bizong

I just bought the Filco Tactile Click NKRO in Italian Red. Does elitekeyboards give out tracking numbers or not?


----------



## olli3

Look what I just got in the post!



















Filco Majestouch NKRO 105 UK layout MX brown switches.

Its amazing! I was wondering if it would be worth the money but after trying it out for a few hours I can happily say id pay double for it if I had to. Once you get used to not bottoming out the keys its so nice and soft to type on, and it is faster to type on too because I'm not bottoming out each key. My fingers just glide across it! Defiantly glad that I got the brown switches, after using them I think the click would be a bit unnecessary for me and perhaps annoying, although I suspect I'd learn to love it lol.

Seriously it should be a law to have this keyboard if you type more than 5 words a day, its great!









Now I'm going to do some of my uni work because that means lots of typing


----------



## Izvire

Quote:


Originally Posted by *olli3* 
-snip-


Man, that must be one the best looking keyboards *ever*.


----------



## goobergump

Ok, so I've been looking at the Deck keyboards, anyone able to give a review on them?

Also, it says they use the cherry mechanical switches, but I don't know what color switches they are.


----------



## Izvire

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goobergump* 
Ok, so I've been looking at the Deck keyboards, anyone able to give a review on them?

Also, it says they use the cherry mechanical switches, but I don't know what color switches they are.

It says
"Switch Type: Cherry MX Black or White
Key feel: Stiff Linear (Blacks), Stiff Tactile (Whites)"
on the front page so I'd assume they come in Blacks and Whites, depending on the model.

So,
Ice (linear) (tactile) = Black/white
Frost (tactile) = White
Fire (linear) = Black
ToXic (linear) = Black


----------



## detroitpc313

I just got this in.Ill never ever go back to any other keyboard. I am so happy that I sold my old G15 and bought this.


----------



## goobergump

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Izvire* 
It says
"Switch Type: Cherry MX Black or White
Key feel: Stiff Linear (Blacks), Stiff Tactile (Whites)"
on the front page so I'd assume they come in Blacks and Whites, depending on the model.

So,
Ice (linear) (tactile) = Black/white
Frost (tactile) = White
Fire (linear) = Black
ToXic (linear) = Black









Crap, where did it say that? Thanks


----------



## PropNut

My Deck Legend Ice (Tactile) arrived last week. It is heading back to them this week. The keyboard just feels cheap. The cherry clears are "mushy" compared to even my Dell AT101W and are in no way as tactile as my Model M. A huge dissapointment for 189.00 (that is with shipping across Lake Michigan).


----------



## goobergump

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PropNut* 
My Deck Legend Ice (Tactile) arrived last week. It is heading back to them this week. The keyboard just feels cheap. The cherry clears are "mushy" compared to even my Dell AT101W and are in no way as tactile as my Model M. A huge dissapointment for 189.00 (that is with shipping across Lake Michigan).

Oh fooey, well there goes that bucket.


----------



## detroitpc313

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


My Deck Legend Ice (Tactile) arrived last week. It is heading back to them this week. The keyboard just feels cheap. The cherry clears are "mushy" compared to even my Dell AT101W and are in no way as tactile as my Model M. A huge dissapointment for 189.00 (that is with shipping across Lake Michigan).


Get a Das or Filco!


----------



## PropNut

I think I will stick with the Model M. I am, of course, going to steampunk it









I really wish there were an alternate choice for a mechanical keyboard with backlighting.


----------



## goobergump

Yeah, I was almost sold when I saw the 1 led per key. I'm also not a fan of clicky and when I heard that they came in black switches I was about to hop on that.

Maaaaan...


----------



## PropNut

I am sure they are good keyboards, but I am not happy with the feel of the switches nor the fit of the keyboard. The case is pretty much the same as my Model M, just a black sparkly color. I figured for that much money it would be better....more modern, etc.


----------



## goobergump

Any idea if there's another manufacturer of mechanicals that offer led backlit keyboards?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kaankin* 
OOh hold a tick, my g/f is going to Hong Kong in a couple of weeks, think she can maybe find a board with cherry reds?

I've never actually seen one, but I'm pretty sure that Cherry themselves make a keyboard with them. Maybe you should ask on geekhack.org, someone there might know.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bizong* 
I just bought the Filco Tactile Click NKRO in Italian Red. Does elitekeyboards give out tracking numbers or not?

I dunno, but check the paypal payment to see if he entered it there, and if not then email him.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *olli3* 
Its amazing! I was wondering if it would be worth the money but after trying it out for a few hours I can happily say id pay double for it if I had to. Once you get used to not bottoming out the keys its so nice and soft to type on, and it is faster to type on too because I'm not bottoming out each key. My fingers just glide across it! Defiantly glad that I got the brown switches, after using them I think the click would be a bit unnecessary for me and perhaps annoying, although I suspect I'd learn to love it lol.

Seriously it should be a law to have this keyboard if you type more than 5 words a day, its great!









Now I'm going to do some of my uni work because that means lots of typing


















Welcome to the club! Now you know what all the rage is about









Quote:


Originally Posted by *goobergump* 
Any idea if there's another manufacturer of mechanicals that offer led backlit keyboards?

There's the Scorpius M10 BL, but I really doubt you'll be able to find it anywhere. Deck's parent company - TG3 Electronics - also makes backlit keyboards. Here's a list, but not all of them are mechanical. If I remember correctly I think they use Cherry Browns.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PropNut* 
I am sure they are good keyboards, but I am not happy with the feel of the switches nor the fit of the keyboard. The case is pretty much the same as my Model M, just a black sparkly color. I figured for that much money it would be better....more modern, etc.

they are not the same materials. Model M housing is made out of ABS and the Deck Legend housing is made out of polycarbonate aka thermoplastic which doesn't yellow like ABS and is impact resistant (shatter proof) overall it is a stronger and lighter plastic.

and just how advanced can a housing get?

the Deck Legend is one of the highest quality mechanical keyboards from the controller, keycaps, led, switches, soldering, plastics to the warranty.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
they are not the same materials. Model M housing is made out of ABS and the Deck Legend housing is made out of polycarbonate aka thermoplastic which doesn't yellow like ABS and is impact resistant (shatter proof).

and just how advanced can a housing get?

the Deck Legend is one of the highest quality mechanical keyboards from the controller, keycaps, led, switches, soldering, plastics to the warranty.

Christine

It's not actually the plastics themselves that yellow anyway, it's because of the flame ******ant chemicals they add to it. This is a good read.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
It's not actually the plastics themselves that yellow anyway, it's because of the flame ******ant chemicals they add to it. This is a good read.

I know that already.









Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I know that already.









Christine


It wasn't necessarily directed to you


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


It wasn't necessarily directed to you










i'm sorry I don't mean to be *****y it feels like it's -20'c in my apartment.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *goobergump*


Quote:



Originally Posted by *Izvire*


Quote:



Originally Posted by *goobergump*


Ok, so I've been looking at the Deck keyboards, anyone able to give a review on them?

Also, it says they use the cherry mechanical switches, but I don't know what color switches they are.


It says 
"Switch Type: Cherry MX Black or White
Key feel: Stiff Linear (Blacks), Stiff Tactile (Whites)"
on the front page so I'd assume they come in Blacks and Whites, depending on the model.

So, 
Ice (linear) (tactile) = Black/white
Frost (tactile) = White
Fire (linear) = Black
ToXic (linear) = Black










Crap, where did it say that? Thanks










On the right hand side, look for the Deck Tech category. Then click on "What does Linear/Tactile mean?" (or click here).

On this page, they say that their keyboards come with either a soft tactile (MX1A-C1NW), or a linear switch (MX1A-11NW).

But this still doesn't answer the question of which switches these are. So, click on the link that says "Cherry MX series mechanical keyswitches" (or click here). On this page, you can find out which switch it is in 1 of 3 ways:

The picture shows the Black, White and Blue ones. To the left of the pic, it says "Choice of feel: linear, soft tactile, click tactile". The black is linear, the blue is the "click tactile" one, and so the white is the "soft tactile" one.
Click "download PDF" underneath the picture (or click here). In this PDF, navigate to page 4. Next, use the "ordering code" on the bottom-right to decipher which switches MX1A-C1NW and MX1A-11NW are. Unfortunately, "C" is not listed here. So, I guess I would pretend that it's "G"(which is actually the Brown switch, as determined by process of elimination combined with the description of each switch in the OP of this thread).
*But here's the best way to find out in order to be 100% sure, even though the picture makes it quite plain: *Scroll down to the bottom where it says both "Ordering Information", and "Ordering information - build a part number". Check out the codes.







Fortunately, they're still listing the clear (or "white") stem here.
Don't feel bad though: I mean, I spent a bunch of time trying to figure this out a few days ago, so that's how I was able to post this.









_Disclaimer: I have no hands-on experience with Deck keyboards._


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kaankin*


OOh hold a tick, my g/f is going to Hong Kong in a couple of weeks, think she can maybe find a board with cherry reds?


Ok I found a model for you with Cherry Reds: Cherry G80-3600LYCEU-0

It's got NKRO too.


----------



## Kaankin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Ok I found a model for you with Cherry Reds: Cherry G80-3600LYCEU-0

It's got NKRO too.


AWESOME! I will look into it thx!!


----------



## xguntherc

Is there many Mechanical Keyboards with Backlights.. I have a G11 and I do not like the new G15. I'd like to move to a Mechanical possibly. but I'd love to have a back lit keyboard. It helps during gaming, and for dim rooms.

Any suggestions? Thanks for the amazing post and information OP


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xguntherc* 
Is there many Mechanical Keyboards with Backlights.. I have a G11 and I do not like the new G15. I'd like to move to a Mechanical possibly. but I'd love to have a back lit keyboard. It helps during gaming, and for dim rooms.

Any suggestions? Thanks for the amazing post and information OP

Deck is the only company I know of that makes backlit mechanical keyboards.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xguntherc*


Is there many Mechanical Keyboards with Backlights.. I have a G11 and I do not like the new G15. I'd like to move to a Mechanical possibly. but I'd love to have a back lit keyboard. It helps during gaming, and for dim rooms.

Any suggestions? Thanks for the amazing post and information OP


Deck, TG3, and there's the Scorpius M10 BL. But you can't find the backlit m10 anywhere, and TG3 is more expensive because they don't sell their boards retail, they make them for cop cars, hospitals, and so on.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Deck, TG3, and there's the Scorpius M10 BL. But you can't find the backlit m10 anywhere, and TG3 is more expensive because they don't sell their boards retail, they make them for cop cars, hospitals, and so on.


IIRC, TG3 is the parent company of Deck anyway.


----------



## Manyak

Yup it is.


----------



## rpsgc

Say... is the Steelseries 6G a good mechanical keyboard? I might get it *relatively* cheap.


----------



## brodie337

The 6G, according to Steelseries' website, has 65 gram mechanical switches, which are tactile, but not clicky. My guess is it uses Cherry Clears, as browns are about 50 grams.

Hmm... on second thoughts, I'm not so sure... Cherry Clears are pretty rare, and I think they're heavier than 65 grams.

Hope that helps,
Brodie.


----------



## rpsgc

The switches are Cherry Black. I assume those are good for gaming?










http://www.4gamer.net/news.php?url=/..._keys_6g.shtml


----------



## brodie337

They claim to be tactile on the Steelseries website. I know the 7G uses blacks, but it says nothing about the 6G.

Unless they have a different idea of tactile to me...

EDIT: Cherry blacks are the favoured switch for gamers, but not the greatest for typing on... see the first page for more info.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *brodie337*


The 6G, according to Steelseries' website, has 65 gram mechanical switches, which are tactile, but not clicky. My guess is it uses Cherry Clears, as browns are about 50 grams.

Hmm... on second thoughts, I'm not so sure... Cherry Clears are pretty rare, and I think they're heavier than 65 grams.

Hope that helps,
Brodie.


According to the OP of this thread/guide, the Clears are 55g. They also have the internal mechanism of the Browns, but with the spring of the Blacks.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rpsgc*


The switches are Cherry Black. I assume those are good for gaming?










http://www.4gamer.net/news.php?url=/..._keys_6g.shtml


According to everything in the OP of this thread/guide, the Blacks are the best switches for gaming (at least when referring to Cherry MX switches).

*Edit:* "Tactile" means that you get a physical tactile response from the switch. Blacks are linear, which means there's no tactile response.


----------



## lmnop

the steelseries 6g uses Cherry MX Black Linear switches, has 8 or 9 PS/2 n-Key rollover. Key Caps are silk screened. Backspace is large and it has a nicer wrist rest than the 7g.

if you can find one you should buy it.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Nope, it uses Cherry Blacks. I've heard it's good, but I don't know the specifics other than it's not NKRO.


----------



## olli3

Either way, if its cheap, get it







It should certainly be good for gaming.


----------



## clownfart

Uh oh, geekhackers found out about this thread.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=8902


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clownfart* 
Uh oh, geekhackers found out about this thread.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=8902


"That guy didn't give a Unicomp a 10/10 for typing! "

Uh oh hahaha.

Hey Manyak, for a person who've used both the tenkeyless and the 104 version of the filco, which one do you like better in terms of desk organization and spacing? Does it feel any different for not having a num pad at all?


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
According to the OP of this thread/guide, the Clears are 55g. They also have the internal mechanism of the Browns, but with the spring of the Blacks.

My own in-house testing done with mouse weights and all the change I had on me confirmed that Cherry Clears (or the ones used in the Deck Legend at least) don't actuate below 65g. They seemed very close though - I'm guessing around 70g is their actuation point.


----------



## soloz2

I want a tenkeyless with reds... anyone find one let me know!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
"That guy didn't give a Unicomp a 10/10 for typing! "

Uh oh hahaha.

Hey Manyak, for a person who've used both the tenkeyless and the 104 version of the filco, which one do you like better in terms of desk organization and spacing? Does it feel any different for not having a num pad at all?

My desk couldn't care less about the extra space. The _section_ I sit at is 72"x48", just about big enough to be a small dining table lol.

But the tenkeyless was better in that it let the mouse stay closer to the center, so I didn't have to reach out as far to the right to use it. But I found that with how much I type in IP addresses and stuff while working at it I was going absolutely nuts not having the keypad.

When I get myself a separate gaming keyboard it won't have a numpad for sure though.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
I want a tenkeyless with reds... anyone find one let me know!

Here. You'll have to wait a little bit though.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn* 
My own in-house testing done with mouse weights and all the change I had on me confirmed that Cherry Clears (or the ones used in the Deck Legend at least) don't actuate below 65g. They seemed very close though - I'm guessing around 70g is their actuation point.

Yeah those graphs are a bit off, even though they _are_ directly from the Cherry Corp datasheet. So I went with other user's reports over the graphs.

Can you retest them using just nickels?


----------



## elbowglue

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


I want a tenkeyless with reds... anyone find one let me know!


Greetings ya'll. Heres a cheap option (non nkro) for spacesaver keyboard with reds. Requires some modifying but you aren't afraid of a little elbowgrease?
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=8795
Total is $47 shipped, spacesaver board with cherry reds, (not NKRO) do it yourself style.

Check out geekhack for more info about mech keyboards then you would ever want.

Just wanted to chime in about spacesaver size and midline mouse positioning-
________________
My keyboards: Compaq MX 11800, G86-62410EUAGSA "Ricecar SPOS", Topre 86UK, Pinkalicious Filco Blue Cherry, Chicony KB-5181, Dell AT101W

Keyboard dimensions in inches (Length X Height) - Length is most important for a midline mouse position
HHKB: 11.6 x 4.3
Filco Tenkeyless: 14 x 5.3
Cherry G86-62410EUAGSA: 14 x 7.75
Topre Realforce 86u 14.4 x 6.65
IBM Model M Spacesaver: 15.3 x 7
Compaq Mx11800 / Cherry G80-11900: 16.25 x 7.5
Filco Standard: 17.3 x 5.4 
Unicomp Endurapro: 17.9 x 7.1
Cherry G80-3000: 18.5 x 7.6
IBM Model M / Unicomp Customizer: 19.3 x 8.27


----------



## Manyak

Yup there's always the option to make them yourself


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Yeah those graphs are a bit off, even though they _are_ directly from the Cherry Corp datasheet. So I went with other user's reports over the graphs.

Can you retest them using just nickels?


I want to, but I keep forgetting to pick up a roll when I'm at the bank. I'll try to remember though.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I wanted to buy some keyboards off the classified from Geekhack. However during my registration it asked the question what was the first three letter synonym for input devices like keyboard, mouse. I tried three times and couldn't get the answer. Then I said screw it and ordered a tenkeyless from elitekeyboards XD

I'm not very smart, no.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I wanted to buy some keyboards off the classified from Geekhack. However during my registration it asked the question what was the first three letter synonym for input devices like keyboard, mouse. I tried three times and couldn't get the answer. Then I said screw it and ordered a tenkeyless from elitekeyboards XD

I'm not very smart, no.


USB?

Although I'll admit I tried PS2 first.


----------



## KipH

hid?


----------



## clownfart

It's and anti bot question, it's supposed to be easy. The actual question on the site is:
*Name the three letter acronym of a common computer interface used for peripherals such as keyboards and mice.*

Just fyi.


----------



## brodie337

I just ordered a Filco tenkeyless with cherry browns as my second mechanical board, as well as a set of blank keycaps...

Now I have to wait till the first week of next month when Brian at Elite Keyboards can get a set of blank keycaps. I'm looking forward to it.

Brian himself was excellent, and promptly answered any questions I had, so I'll probably go back there when I can afford to swap all the keyboards in the house to mechanicals. I'd strongly recommend shopping there.


----------



## Manyak

+1 to Brian being awesome


----------



## Kaankin

Well I was reading over at geekhack and read about this Cherry G80-3
000, which looks like is what I want, since cherry reds will be out of the question for awhile. I like this KB http://www.datacal.com/p-1254-cherry...-switches.aspx it's a good price and I think it has more room for mods rather than the Filco.
So I think I might of found a winner!


----------



## waylo88

Just ordered myself an ABS M1. It'll be my first mechanical keyboard.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kaankin*


Well I was reading over at geekhack and read about this Cherry G80-3
000, which looks like is what I want, since cherry reds will be out of the question for awhile. I like this KB http://www.datacal.com/p-1254-cherry...-switches.aspx it's a good price and I think it has more room for mods rather than the Filco.
So I think I might of found a winner!


a couple things you should know about this keyboard. it only has 2 n-Key rollover. there is no backplate and according to a Korean site the faceplate or housing can warp on you because the switches are mounted to the PCB instead of a backplate which provides stability.

at that price range there are alternatives like the i-Rocks KR-6230 or iOne Scorpius M10.

Christine


----------



## Kaankin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
a couple things you should know about this keyboard. it only has 2 n-Key rollover. there is no backplate and according to a Korean site the faceplate or housing can warp on you because the switches are mounted to the PCB instead of a backplate which provides stability.

at that price range there are alternatives like the i-Rocks KR-6230 or iOne Scorpius M10.

Christine

Aah i did not know that, i was going to research it more but thx for the info!!


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kaankin* 
Aah i did not know that, i was going to research it more but thx for the info!!









the i-Rocks KR-6230 has Cherry MX Browns, backplate mounted, 6+4 n-Key rollover with a memory system, rubber feet, 2x USB 2.0 ports, no Windows Key, 97 key layout.

good keyboard for light typing and gaming.

the / key has been repositioned and I think the key caps are silk screened.

mwave has it for $79 with free shipping.

the iOne Scorpius M10 has Cherry MX Blues, backplate mounted, 2 n-Key rollover, laser etched key caps, full layout.

good keyboard for typing.

Amazon/Ergogeek has it for $59 + $9 shipping.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Here's the iOne Scorpius M10 for $59.94 shipped through Buy.com:

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.as...ingid=18341587

($49.95 plus $9.99 shipping)


----------



## xguntherc

So if I want a back lit keyboard that is also mechanical basically my only option I was able to FIND that has 10 key was the Deck, and they are $170 at performancepc's...

uh.. thats worse than the G19 with it's screen. lol. maybe I'll just get the G110


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Yes, but the Deck will last a decade, while the G19 will last maybe two to five years.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Yes, but the Deck will last a decade, while the G19 will last maybe two to five years.


This.

The G110 is still a rubber dome keyboard, and therefore I consider it to be extremely overpriced and extremely over-hyped junk. Granted, it'll be really nice at first and you'll just be like "I'm so glad I didn't waste my money on a mechanical keyboard", but it's still just an extremely expensive rubber dome keyboard.

For the price of the G110, you could get a really good mechanical keyboard that will be an absolute dream to use, and plus it'll last "forever". Yes, I grant you that it's impossible to find an affordable backlit mechanical keyboard, and like none of them have media keys or other keys like that, but I have one thing to say about that: do what I did and ask some mechanical keyboard owners what they think about such features, and they'll tell you the same thing they told me: they're absolutely unnecessary. They said that once you have a keyboard that doesn't have any extra features other than a great build quality and mechanical switches that you like, you will wonder why you ever cared about those other features.

Here's something else I want to say: the rubber dome "switch technology" is like a turd. So, do you know what these keyboards (like the G15 and G19) _really_ are?? They are disgusting little turds wrapped in fancy packaging. If you polish a turd, then it's still a turd. Those features like the G-keys, backlighting, media keys, and even that LCD display are all things that help fool people into buying a disgusting little turd. But can you imagine how much the G11, G110, G15 or the G19 would cost if it came with Cherry MX switches?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xguntherc*


So if I want a back lit keyboard that is also mechanical basically my only option I was able to FIND that has 10 key was the Deck, and they are $170 at performancepc's...

uh.. thats worse than the G19 with it's screen. lol. maybe I'll just get the G110


you live in America why don't you order directly from Deck? it's cheaper.

Christine


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
you live in America why don't you order directly from Deck? it's cheaper.

Christine

Yeah, the full-size deck's start at $150 on their website.


----------



## clownfart

Here is another manufacture of backlit keyboards.

http://devlin.co.uk/keyboards/index.html


----------



## yellowtoblerone

why do you need a backlit keyboard? just for looks?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clownfart*


Here is another manufacture of backlit keyboards.

http://devlin.co.uk/keyboards/index.html


I don't think that is mechanical.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Yeah, the full-size deck's start at $150 on their website.


you only order from performance-pcs.com if the Deck website is down or if you live outside of America. I see no reason why not to order directly from them.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I don't think that is mechanical.

you only order from performance-pcs.com if the Deck website is down or if you live outside of America. I see no reason why not to order directly from them.

Christine


Well, it does say that the keys are "Tactile, full travel".


----------



## lmnop

I don't think the indirect light technique that Logitech, Saitek, Razer, etc use to illuminate they're keyboards will work with a mechanical keyboard.

mechanical keyboards require special mounting for LED.










Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xguntherc*


So if I want a back lit keyboard that is also mechanical basically my only option I was able to FIND that has 10 key was the Deck, and they are $170 at performancepc's...

uh.. thats worse than the G19 with it's screen. lol. maybe I'll just get the G110


If you _need_ the backlight - like if you don't know how to touch type and you use your PC in the dark - then that's one thing. If you can't touch type it's kind of dumb to get a mechanical keyboard anyway. But if you're just getting it for looks, maybe you _should_ try out a mechanical board. Worst case, if you don't like it, you can return it and get your money back.

And any of the higher quality boards - Filco, Das, Deck, etc - can last for decades. Buy a G110 for $65 and it'll last for 4 years _at most_ - $65/4 = $16.25 a year. But with the Deck, even if it only lasts for 10 years (which is a pretty conservative estimate), $150/10 = $15 a year. If it lasts for 20 years, $150/20 = $7.50 a year. So in the long run, buying keyboards like the G110 is actually _more_ expensive.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I have a friend who is a very, very fast typist, and he also hits the keys fairly hard. His last keyboard only lasted him about eight months. He opened it up and found that he had actually _torn a hole_ through the membrane sheet.









He's going to be saving up for a Unicomp board (he'd get a used Model M, but he needs it to be USB and can't have a bulky adapter).


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I have a friend who is a very, very fast typist, and he also hits the keys fairly hard. His last keyboard only lasted him about eight months. He opened it up and found that he had actually _torn a hole_ through the membrane sheet.









He's going to be saving up for a Unicomp board (he'd get a used Model M, but he needs it to be USB and can't have a bulky adapter).

LOL yup, Unicomp for him


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Thing is he's an engineering student, so when I told him the cost cutting changes Unicomp had made to the original--using 0.8mm steel instead of 1.0mm, using lighterweight plastic--he tut-tutted and said that he'd have a word with them. And knowing him he'll probably write and send an actual email telling them to beef up the design again.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Thing is he's an engineering student, so when I told him the cost cutting changes Unicomp had made to the original--using 0.8mm steel instead of 1.0mm, using lighterweight plastic--he tut-tutted and said that he'd have a word with them. And knowing him he'll probably write and send an actual email telling them to beef up the design again.









He might want to find a Model F AT and adapters for it, then. It's probably the most durable keyboard that is compatible with modern computers.


----------



## Kaankin

Ok pps, getting closer lol!







Well after doing some measurements of some KB's , I think the Deck is too long and the Filco about .50in shorter than the Deck and all other full size KB's about the same. So the thing is i really don't need a full KB, I use the G13 gamepad so basically i can go for tenkeyless! And i think it will be more comfortable, I can just get a wireless tenkey for work.
So besides the Filco and Deck(out of stock) is there any other out there that has cherry browns or similar?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kaankin*


Ok pps, getting closer lol!







Well after doing some measurements of some KB's , I think the Deck is too long and the Filco about .50in shorter than the Deck and all other full size KB's about the same. So the thing is i really don't need a full KB, I use the G13 gamepad so basically i can go for tenkeyless! And i think it will be more comfortable, I can just get a wireless tenkey for work.
So besides the Filco and Deck(out of stock) is there any other out there that has cherry browns or similar?


There's the iRocks KR-6230, Cherry or Compaq MX-11800, and Kinesis Advantage.


----------



## Kaankin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


There's the iRocks KR-6230, Cherry or Compaq MX-11800, and Kinesis Advantage.


Awesome thx! U da man!


----------



## Manyak




----------



## savagebunny

Let me add my Cherry G81 I bought from VCheeZ. Spray painted it with automotive paint


----------



## clownfart

I'm interested in buckling spring boards, what are the differences between Unicomps and Model M's? I know about the space saver versions, but is there any very compact boards?


----------



## pcnuttie

I type really fast and i sometimes press the wrong key and i'm a crazy gamer and i hate it when you melee in battle via modern warfare 2 and it doesn't go in contact makes me feel like i pressed it twice to make it work. This is my keyboard. http://www.xoxide.com/superslim-illu...ard-black.html I know.. VERY CHEAP and stupid of me to get it,it has done nothing but give me stress and i wanna snap it. PLEASE recommend me a better keyboard in the range of 30 to 60 dollars that'll last a long time and only 1 keyboard that costs 80 bucks. Help!







Even my letters worn out. I only got this because i needed a lit keyboard for nights.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clownfart* 
I'm interested in buckling spring boards, what are the differences between Unicomps and Model M's? I know about the space saver versions, but is there any very compact boards?

There's the tenkeyless one, and there's one without the giant bezel around the board. That's it.

There are a bunch of differences between Unicomp and IBM. Unicomp switches are about 5g lighter, they have a thinner steel backplate, thinner plastic, 1-piece keycaps, drainage holes, the entire board is a bit lighter...and I'm really tired I can't remember what else.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pcnuttie* 
I type really fast and i sometimes press the wrong key and i'm a crazy gamer and i hate it when you melee in battle via modern warfare 2 and it doesn't go in contact makes me feel like i pressed it twice to make it work. This is my keyboard. http://www.xoxide.com/superslim-illu...ard-black.html I know.. VERY CHEAP and stupid of me to get it,it has done nothing but give me stress and i wanna snap it. PLEASE recommend me a better keyboard in the range of 30 to 60 dollars that'll last a long time and only 1 keyboard that costs 80 bucks. Help!







Even my letters worn out. I only got this because i needed a lit keyboard for nights.









If you want the ultimate in durability, get a Model M 1390120, 1390131, or 1391401 off of ebay. You can expect them to last at least half your lifetime.









But for something a little bit more modern, try an ABS M1 (newegg) or MX-11900 (ebay).


----------



## MLJS54

Quote:



Originally Posted by *savagebunny*


Let me add my Cherry G81 I bought from VCheeZ. Spray painted it with automotive paint


















Sick paint job. Which switches does that board use?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MLJS54*


Sick paint job. Which switches does that board use?


Cherry MY


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MLJS54* 
Sick paint job. Which switches does that board use?

Cherry MY switches.

Christine


----------



## MLJS54

Thanks. How are the MY relative to other Cherry switches?

P.S. just got the Dell AT101W in the mail this morning for my home rig. Black ALPS - really liking it so far. I'm still on the hunt for a Black Cherry standard layout board for under $100


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MLJS54* 
Thanks. How are the MY relative to other Cherry switches?

P.S. just got the Dell AT101W in the mail this morning for my home rig. Black ALPS - really liking it so far. I'm still on the hunt for a Black Cherry standard layout board for under $100


















They are linear, like MX blacks, except the force curve is very different. They both actuate at 60cN, but MX Blacks start at 40cN and end at 80cN, while MY switches start at 25cN and end at 125cN. So the curve is a lot steeper.


----------



## mtbiker033

ok guys, I'm ready to take the mechanical plunge, what would you recommend for the 1st try? Unfortunately there are no places around me to try them out so I thought about ordering an ABS M1 from newegg as it's not too expensive. I also checked the for sale section and didn't see anything there. I would love to buy one used to try but can't find any.

What would a be a good choice for a 1st time mech keyboard try?


----------



## IEATFISH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mtbiker033*


ok guys, I'm ready to take the mechanical plunge, what would you recommend for the 1st try? Unfortunately there are no places around me to try them out so I thought about ordering an ABS M1 from newegg as it's not too expensive. I also checked the for sale section and didn't see anything there. I would love to buy one used to try but can't find any.

What would a be a good choice for a 1st time mech keyboard try?


I bought an M1 first. Mine had problems so I sent it back but it was enough to know I loved the feel. I then jumped straight to a Filco. Many people don't have problems with the M1 and from what I've seen, it is about 50/50 chance or having errors. If nothing else, it will help you to see if you like it or not.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

For a first board I recommend something cheap, so if you don't like it it wasn't a huge loss. Used IBM Model Ms can be had on ebay for as low as $20-$30 shipped CONUS, and Dell AT101Ws for as low as $15-$25 SCONUS (sales prices are generally the same, but the Model M is a lot heavier so shipping is more). There are also various Cherry and Chicony boards that use mechanical switches, but they both also have rubber domes and the only way to tell them apart is by model number... and there are a lot of models!

The IBM Model M has a heavy keypress (~70g), and is tactile and clicky. They use buckling spring switches, which are only found on IBM boards and their direct descendents (IBM/Lexmark Model M and Unicomp Customizer) and cousins (Model F, M15, etc). They're built like tanks and even the oldest ones (~22-23 years) still function perfectly. Mine is just over 21 years old and is still one of the best keyboards I've ever owned. They're very durable, but they're heavy and huge, and loud. But they're a great starter board.

Dell AT101W uses Black Alps switches and has a moderately heavy keypress (~60g) and are tactile, but not clicky. However they still make more noise than most rubber dome keyboards. They're another good starter board because they're usually fairly cheap when used. They're not as bulletproof as the Model M but are still relatively durable, and can take a fair bit of abuse. They aren't as physically huge as the Model M, but they're still fairly weighty.


----------



## PropNut

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


they are not the same materials. Model M housing is made out of ABS and the Deck Legend housing is made out of polycarbonate aka thermoplastic which doesn't yellow like ABS and is impact resistant (shatter proof) overall it is a stronger and lighter plastic.

and just how advanced can a housing get?

the Deck Legend is one of the highest quality mechanical keyboards from the controller, keycaps, led, switches, soldering, plastics to the warranty.

Christine


Well...a more modern housing would be very nice, I did not ask for a more advanced housing. Das, Filco, etc, all use a modern style of housing. Considering the cost (delivered within 100 miles) was almost twice that of the Das or the Filco, I would have liked a more modern housing. Yes, I am being picky with my 189.00.

As I said, I am sure it is a good keyboard, but just not right for me.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


you live in America why don't you order directly from Deck? it's cheaper.

Christine


Not cheaper, I ordered directly from them and it was the same price (but with really high shipping charges).


----------



## mtbiker033

I decided to go with a Das Keyboard Model S Ultimate. I really like the look of it, it's a little cheaper than the filco and had free shipping.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


Well...a more modern housing would be very nice, I did not ask for a more advanced housing. Das, Filco, etc, all use a modern style of housing. Considering the cost (delivered within 100 miles) was almost twice that of the Das or the Filco, I would have liked a more modern housing. Yes, I am being picky with my 189.00.

As I said, I am sure it is a good keyboard, but just not right for me.

Not cheaper, I ordered directly from them and it was the same price (but with really high shipping charges).


_lights are rated at 200,000 hours of life. That's pushing 22 years if the Deck™ is never turned off. It has seven different intensity levels and full brightness is tweaked to 5.25 milliamps." So not only can you guarantee that your LEDs will last 22 years, but they are the brightest available on the market. I wanted a bit more information so I posed the question to Deck. I was asked not to quote him as he is not in the purchasing department, but know that for the average John Doe at Radio Shack, a single blue LED of the brightness and quality they use would cost about $1.50 USD. They buy them in the thousands; he said that even at this quantity that the LEDs still cost them about $0.90 each. On an 82-key keyboard like the one I have received there are 84 LEDs sent (one under each key, one under the caps lock indicator, and one in the end of the USB cable) and this equates to roughly $75.60 for those of you a little weak in the number crunching. So almost $76 of their $120 price point is spent on using the best LEDs money can buy.

According to our contact at Deck, there is actually very little profit involved. These keyboards are a part of their product line simply because they can be, and if people would like to invest in having the best of the best, they make it. If not, then go with something else. Their theory is that they aren't around to make a killing in gaming, but they can make the best damn keyboard available to gamers. _

that is where your money went.

Cherry makes the perfect switch for the perfect situation not the perfect person. one of the first things I noticed at geekhack was how everybody has something to complain about the click, bump or force. always to little or to much.

the Filco Majestouch uses the same finish the ABS M1 and iOne Scorpius M10 have it's called a silt finish and the Das has a sheen finish. I much rather purchase some aerosol based paints like Plasti Kote Engine Enamel and some Mirror Finish Wax and make the faceplate look like the hood of a Ferrari. your Deck Legend warranty covers this and if you mess up you can purchase another stock faceplate from them how cool is that?

Christine


----------



## PropNut

All very cool Christine, but as I mentioned...it was not right "for me". You can stop defending Deck, all is good. Take a very deep breath...hold....release....relax......breath....


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

alright i know i am getting annoying with which keyboard, but i really do have my heart on the FILCO majestouch. But theres the Das silent im into.
My questions:
1. does FILCO majestouch support media buttons? like autohotkeys (w.e theyre called) to open apps like internet and itunes ect. [quick opens] what about the das?
2. Which FILCO majestouch verison is the best for gaming. Theres 5 different ones, which with different cherry (i want the quietest cherry which is brown [from what i hear]) and is n-roll really worth the extra $20?
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...estouch_104key


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234*


alright i know i am getting annoying with which keyboard, but i really do have my heart on the FILCO majestouch. But theres the Das silent im into.
My questions:
1. does FILCO majestouch support media buttons? like autohotkeys (w.e theyre called) to open apps like internet and itunes ect. [quick opens] what about the das?
2. Which FILCO majestouch verison is the best for gaming. Theres 5 different ones, which with different cherry (i want the quietest cherry which is brown [from what i hear]) and is n-roll really worth the extra $20?
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...estouch_104key


1. Any keyboard in the world can be 'programmed' with autohotkey.

2. The best for gaming are the cherry blacks, which also happen to be the worst for typing. At least that's the general opinion. And if NKRO is worth it is really up to you. I mean, the way I see it, NKRO is just a sort of insurance guarantee that you'll never have any keys blocked. And with how long these keyboards last and how much they cost , I want to be sure I'll never run into trouble.


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


1. Any keyboard in the world can be 'programmed' with autohotkey.

2. The best for gaming are the cherry blacks, which also happen to be the worst for typing. At least that's the general opinion. And if NKRO is worth it is really up to you. I mean, the way I see it, NKRO is just a sort of insurance guarantee that you'll never have any keys blocked. And with how long these keyboards last and how much they cost , I want to be sure I'll never run into trouble.


alright, it'll be used for both gaming and school work ect. So ill go with the brown cherry full n-roll, since i wont be buying any keyboard for another 5 years to hope
browns since theyre the queitest ones i guess


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234* 
alright i know i am getting annoying with which keyboard, but i really do have my heart on the FILCO majestouch. But theres the Das silent im into.
My questions:
1. does FILCO majestouch support media buttons? like autohotkeys (w.e theyre called) to open apps like internet and itunes ect. [quick opens] what about the das?
2. Which FILCO majestouch verison is the best for gaming. Theres 5 different ones, which with different cherry (i want the quietest cherry which is brown [from what i hear]) and is n-roll really worth the extra $20?
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...estouch_104key

Just to add to what Manyak said, here's more information on AutoHotKey:

http://www.autohotkey.com

Almost anything can be done with it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234* 
alright, it'll be used for both gaming and school work ect. So ill go with the brown cherry full n-roll, since i wont be buying any keyboard for another 5 years to hope
browns since theyre the queitest ones i guess

They won't be quiet like rubber. Any time a key cap is bottomed out, it still makes that "loud" clacky noise. Manyak cautioned me that almost everyone who is new to mechanical keyboards will be bottoming out for the first few weeks. But once adjusted, the only noise will be any loose "chatter" of the keys and any noise the switch makes.

For some good examples of what the different switches generally sound like, I recommend searching YouTube for different things, such as:

Cherry MX Blue
Cherry MX Brown
Cherry MX Black
Filco Majestouch Tactile Click
Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch
Topre Realforce (these suckers are very quiet, very high-end and very expensive)
But of course, I also recommend YouTubing other things like "Das Model S", or "Steelseries 7G", or whatever you can think of. You can also YouTube the model numbers like "FKBN104M/EB" for the Tactile Touch NKRO.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


All very cool Christine, but as I mentioned...it was not right "for me". You can stop defending Deck, all is good. Take a very deep breath...hold....release....relax......breath....


i'm not defending TG3. in your original post I thought this guy can't be this stupid can he? so I gave you the benefit of the doubt and judging by your reply it is more than most people probably give you.

Christine


----------



## PropNut

All you can do is smile. Shall we get back on track?


----------



## rpsgc

Damn it! I can't get the Steelseries 6G any more







I don't want to be stuck with the crappy 7G (Stupid oversized Enter, no left Windows key, etc...)


----------



## lmnop

what are you going to use the backspace and windows key for when your gaming?

Christine


----------



## PropNut

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rpsgc* 
Damn it! I can't get the Steelseries 6G any more







I don't want to be stuck with the crappy 7G (Stupid oversized Enter, no left Windows key, etc...)

Here is one:
http://www.fadfusion.com/selection.p...er=20260801267

I just did a google search, I know nothing about this company.

Hope it helps.

EDIT: Darn....the first time I clicked on that site it said in stock...they second time it said discontinued. Sorry to raise your hopes.


----------



## PropNut

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
what are you going to use the backspace and windows key for when your gaming?

Christine

More and more simulations are using the left windows key and backspace, as well as all the other keys on the keyboard, to utilize certain features. I had to remap my keyboard for Arma2 as I do not have a left Windows key on my Model M.

Christine....you like to give you opinion pretty much cutting off everyone else's. Your comment above seems to indicate that you discount everyone elses needs based on your own. Something you might think about in the future is whether or not your comment is pertinent to the conversation or not. From glancing back through this thread it seems that they have not been. Something to think about.


----------



## rpsgc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


what are you going to use the backspace and windows key for when your gaming?

Christine


Maybe I use the keyboard for more than gaming, like, you know, using Windows?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rpsgc*


Maybe I use the keyboard for more than gaming, like, you know, using Windows?


than you shouldn't be buying a keyboard with Cherry MX Black Linear switches. Cherry MX Browns would be better.

one forum member from geekhack went to Mexico last year and came back with a LOT of IBM Model M that were used at a school, all they needed was a cleaning. my point is your country probably has a lot more mechanical keyboards than you think.

Christine


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


what are you going to use the backspace and windows key for when your gaming?

Christine


Typing in game? 
Multi-key binds?
ect.

A good keyboard (when it's standard size and note a Mini and such.) Should have all keys. Both Windows keys, backspace, ect.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Typing in game? 
Multi-key binds?
ect.

A good keyboard (when it's standard size and note a Mini and such.) Should have all keys. Both Windows keys, backspace, ect.


the steelseries 7g has a function key instead of a windows key. what is wrong with using your right hand to use the right windows key? when I was a teenager my brother and I owned a XT do you know how many mice and keyboards were available at the time? not many. you used what you had and adapted. rule of acquisition number 45 expand or die...

Christine


----------



## Tator Tot

Function keys are not always as ergonomic to use as the windows keys are.

But for that matter, as far back as I can remember PC Gaming wise (~97/98) any old keyboard I could pick up looked pretty much like this the key difference being color.

And most keyboards you get now a days have that same shape and key layout.


----------



## lmnop

the steelseries 7g is a gaming keyboard. the layout was designed for gaming not typing. it is the perfect mechanical keyboard if you spend majority of your time on the PC playing video games rather than typing or if have multiple computers one assigned to video games and the other assigned to typing.

if you have problem with it than I suggest another switch and there is lots of them. Cherry MX Brown, Alps Black, Alps Black Copies, etc.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the function key. it's useful. you don't have to worry about hitting the windows key by accident and you can turn the volume up, down or mute.

Christine


----------



## pow3rtr1p

I know it's not mechanical, but the more modern Dell keyboards are really great. I'm using one from their Optiplex 960 series, and it's a great typing experience, for sure. It's still rubber dome, and maybe a little mushy for some people, and it doesn't have NKRO, obviously. However, for general typing purposes, it's one of the best cheap keyboards I've used.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pow3rtr1p* 
I know it's not mechanical, but the more modern Dell keyboards are really great. I'm using one from their Optiplex 960 series, and it's a great typing experience, for sure. It's still rubber dome, and maybe a little mushy for some people, and it doesn't have NKRO, obviously. However, for general typing purposes, it's one of the best cheap keyboards I've used.

not all rubber dome keyboards are bad. the i-Rocks KR-6820E-BK and Saitek Eclipse use square sliders which have a tactile feedback. the i-Rocks KR-6820E-BK requires 60-65g of force to ensure a keystroke is registered which is more than some Cherry MX switches. one reviewer on geekhack said the i-Rocks KR-6820E-BK has more tactile feedback than a Cherry MX Brown switch however a Cherry MX Brown switch has more benefits such as speed and durability.

the i-Rocks KR-6820E-BK uses the same indirect light technique rubber dome keyboards that are marketed as "gaming keyboards" use and the back lighting is comparable to the Razer Lycosa. it's also ergonomic because of it's compact layout and slimline housing you don't have to worry about strain. it's only $25 shipped and once connected through a PS/2 adapter it doesn't technically have full n-Key rollover but there doesn't seem to be any blocking combinations up to 16 keystrokes.

compare this to more expensive rubber dome keyboards that are marketed as "gaming keyboards" like the Eclipse I - II - III, Reclusa, Sidewinder X4, Sidewinder X8, Cyborg, Tarantula, Lycosa, Arctosa, G11, G110, G15, G19 and you have not only a bang for your buck "gaming keyboard" but you could argue a better rubber dome keyboard.

Christine


----------



## PropNut

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pow3rtr1p*


I know it's not mechanical, but the more modern Dell keyboards are really great. I'm using one from their Optiplex 960 series, and it's a great typing experience, for sure. It's still rubber dome, and maybe a little mushy for some people, and it doesn't have NKRO, obviously. However, for general typing purposes, it's one of the best cheap keyboards I've used.


You are right, there are some very good cheap keyboards out there. You should use what you like/can afford. I use a cheap dell keyboard in my simpit, but I prefer to type on a mechanical keyboard when writing research papers, etc. My opinion is that you would like typing on a mechanical keyboard better than the rubber dome but ultimately the final opinion that matters is yours. I certainly wish more local stores carried mechanical keyboards so the general public could experience the difference.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


More and more simulations are using the left windows key and backspace, as well as all the other keys on the keyboard, to utilize certain features. I had to remap my keyboard for Arma2 as I do not have a left Windows key on my Model M.

Christine....you like to give you opinion pretty much cutting off everyone else's. Your comment above seems to indicate that you discount everyone elses needs based on your own. Something you might think about in the future is whether or not your comment is pertinent to the conversation or not. From glancing back through this thread it seems that they have not been. Something to think about.


PropNut: I support your constructive criticism of Christine. I also agree.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


nobody is going to be using no ****ing windows key or backspace for gaming. the only time I ever use the backspace key is when I am playing a third person shooter as the backspace is usually assigned to reset the camera.

the steelseries 6g was discontinued when moses wore short pants.

Propnut go away you dolt. I don't care. when I want your opinion i'll ask for it.

rpsgc go here and here and start looking.

Christine


Just because the primary use of the keyboard is for gaming, it doesn't mean that somebody won't be typing with it. And there are MANY people (including me) who absolutely _hate_ that tiny Backspace key and that massive Enter key.

I wouldn't care of I spent 99% of my time using the keyboard for gaming! *I'D STILL BE USING IT FOR TYPING ON OCCASION!*

Why is it that whenever somebody expresses a preference, you have to come along and tell them that they're wrong?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


than you shouldn't be buying a keyboard with Cherry MX Black Linear switches. Cherry MX Browns would be better.


Says YOU. But that's just your opinion. But not everyone will have the same opinion as you. You have to be flexible and allow people to form their own opinion! You can't just tell them what their opinion is! But that is exactly what you're doing!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the steelseries 7g has a function key instead of a windows key. what is wrong with using your right hand to use the right windows key?


Do you remember why I prefer having a Left WinKey? It's because I've been using the Left WinKey shortcuts (plus just using the Left WinKey to open the Start menu whenever I don't feel like using the mouse) since the days of Windows 95. That's right: that's 15 years of Left WinKey habits! *I have never used my Right WinKey. Ever.* It is the one key on every keyboard I have eever used (and of the 3 that I have owned) that I _never_ use or touch.

So what's wrong with it? It's personal preference. When somebody expresses a preference, RESPECT IT! However, you can still gently suggest things that might enable them to see a better way (at least, according to their opinion again).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


when I was a teenager my brother and I owned a XT do you know how many mice and keyboards were available at the time? not many. you used what you had and adapted. rule of acquisition number 45 expand or die...

Christine


So what? Does that mean everyone has to be exactly the same as you? Does that mean that I'm wrong for absolutely REFUSING to buy a keyboard like the Model S? I dare you to tell me I'm wrong, Christine! Just go ahead! Because you know what? I'm not going to let anyone tell me that my preference is wrong. *I would rather enjoy my keyboard from day one than spend a few weeks - or a few months - getting USED to the damn thing! Is that okay with you?*

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the steelseries 7g is a gaming keyboard. the layout was designed for gaming not typing. it is the perfect mechanical keyboard if you spend majority of your time on the PC playing video games rather than typing or if have multiple computers one assigned to video games and the other assigned to typing.

if you have problem with it than I suggest another switch and there is lots of them. Cherry MX Brown, Alps Black, Alps Black Copies, etc.


This has nothing to do with the switch right now. It has to do with preferring keyboards that have the normal Backspace and Enter keys. Just because the majority of a user's time on the PC is spent gaming, it doesn't mean that they are wrong if they refuse to buy a keyboard because of little things like not having a Left WinKey, and not having normal-sized Backspace and Enter keys. As I said before: the keyboard is still used for typing, and therefore the user still needs to consider EVERY ASPECT OF THE KEYBOARD. Therefore, it's every user's right to refuse to buy any keyboard with such design characteristics.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I don't think there is anything wrong with the function key. it's useful. you don't have to worry about hitting the windows key by accident and you can turn the volume up, down or mute.

Christine


That doesn't mean that everyone needs to have the same opinions and preferences as you. What works the absolute best for ONE person may not work AT ALL for another.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


Wow, so everyone should be happy to do what you think best for them? Hmm....


I know, right? I've been getting along with Christine for the past week or 2, but she's still been a bit abrasive.

Christine, I want you to know that I am not alone when I say that you are a bit arrogant, condescending and whatever else can be related to those adjectives. You tend to appear as though you think your opinion and/or preferences are the only ones that matter and that everyone would be happiest if they would do everything the same way you do them (and *have* done them).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


I too had an XT (8088) when I was a young man, I am certainly glad computers have progressed beyond that stage...and I am very glad that games have also. Be a little more aware of other peoples needs and opinions, not everyone will change thier opinion to match yours just because you rant the most, or pull stats out of your bag o'ammo.


This.

Christine, be more like Manyak: the only thing he is interested in is enabling people to find what's best for THEM. He never tells people what they should or should not use. He just shows them what's out there and enables them to make an informed decision rather than forcing his opinions and preferences down on them.

Absolutely NOBODY likes it when they have somebody helping them who is also trying to make them have the same opinions and preferences.

/rant.

Christine: please understand that if I hated you, or if I didn't respect you, then I would have just kept silent. Only a friend would step up to the plate like this.

*To everyone else:* I sincerely apologize, but I know full-well that some of you feel that Christine has had this coming since the day she joined OCN (10/25/09).


----------



## phospholipid

This is a guide, please only help other people. Please only state facts, do not insult other members.


----------



## Manyak

Wow, I'm gone all day playing mass effect 2 and I come back to this









How about we don't scare away anyone else from posting in the thread, hmm?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pow3rtr1p*


I know it's not mechanical, but the more modern Dell keyboards are really great. I'm using one from their Optiplex 960 series, and it's a great typing experience, for sure. It's still rubber dome, and maybe a little mushy for some people, and it doesn't have NKRO, obviously. However, for general typing purposes, it's one of the best cheap keyboards I've used.


I've heard from many people in IT that the Dell keybaord was great. Still, I've never typed faster than on the mechanical.


----------



## waylo88

Got my ABS M10 from Newegg today. I've never owned a mechanical keyboard before, so I wasn't sure what to expect. I absolutely love it. The key presses are all very accurate. I'm not screwing up multiple words anymore like I was with my G15 or my Tarantula. I'm also loving the sound of the board.

The size and weight of the board is great as well. I never used those dumb hot keys on my other boards, or the media keys, so that stuff was just wasted space. Now I can have my mouse snug right up next to the board. It's also nice and heavy so it doesn't slide around on my desk.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Could you do us a favor and test the rollover?

Try hitting these key combinations all at the exact same time, and tell us how many keys register on the screen:

WASD

ERXC

HJKL

ASDERW Shift

Try each one multiple times, and only count the ones that show up when you press the keys, not when you release them.

I'm asking this because ABS claims the M1 has 6+4KRO, meaning that any six letter/number keys AND any four modifiers (shift, ctrl, etc.) can be pressed at the exact same time and still show up on the screen. But some people say this isn't true. So I'd like to see what someone who just got a brand new board, presumably the latest revision, can tell us.


----------



## waylo88

WASD = doesn't work
ERXC = doesn't work
HJKL = doesn't work
ASDERW Shift = doesn't work

I can hit like two or three keys at a time. It's weird, it seems noticeable now that you pointed it out, but I just played some COD for about 20 minutes and had zero problems pressing multiple keys down. Not once was I hindered by not being able to use a certain key combo.

Would getting a USB > PS2 adapter somewhat resolve that?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Nope, it's a controller thing.

Those are unusual key combinations. I mean, you won't be running forward _and_ back and left _and_ right at the same time, you know?







But standard gaming combinations will work fine. Try this:

shift AWER space

That should work on virtually any keyboard. But it's nice to have NKRO (ANY key combination will work), just in case you ever do need those functions. But for standard WASD gaming the M1's matrix is just fine.


----------



## mechtech

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waylo88* 
WASD = doesn't work
ERXC = doesn't work
HJKL = doesn't work
ASDERW Shift = doesn't work

I can hit like two or three keys at a time. It's weird, it seems noticeable now that you pointed it out, but I just played some COD for about 20 minutes and had zero problems pressing multiple keys down. Not once was I hindered by not being able to use a certain key combo.

Would getting a USB > PS2 adapter somewhat resolve that?

That board doesn't have NKRO, which is fine even for most gaming. A USB > PS2 adaptor shouldn't make a difference for that.

I've only ran into problems with a standard keyboard when gaming what I wanted to lean while walking sidestep and crouching. Doesn't happen very much! (actually I've only done that in the STALKER games while sneaking around)


----------



## waylo88

AWER

That works just fine. I'm really too concerned with it. Like you said, when am I going to be in-game trying to go back, forward, left, and right all at the same time.


----------



## lmnop

it's essentially 2 n-Key rollover which will accept certain combinations. ABS used to advertise 6+4 n-Key rollover until the transposition problem was discovered they removed it from their advertisement. both the ABS M1 and Filco Zero originally had XM switches but they changed them to ***kas sometime last year. the ABS M1 is incompatible with a PS/2 adapter for some strange reason.

I think that is about all you need to know about the ABS M1, correct me if I am wrong. try and not hold this against Costar they are only as good as the company that pays them meaning they manufacture a lot of mechanical keyboards and they all vary in quality. if it makes you feel better the Saitek Eclipse which is arguably more popular also blocks W, S, A, D.

Christine


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Yeah, NKRO is only seen on very high end boards. The NKRO Filco keyboards cost about $30 more than the non-NKRO ones I think.

The standard IBM matrix which the majority (or at least a large minority) of keyboards use works fine for standard gaming. Just don't go play in a Stepmania tournament on one is all.


----------



## mtbiker033

I get my das ultimate on thursday I can't wait to try it out and retire the G15


----------



## lmnop

Manyak. I didn't notice this before but on the Cherry switches and boards island on geekhack there are 3 versions of Cherry MX Clear.

MX1A-C which is soft tactile, 55g.
MX1A-A which is tactile, 80g.

Deck Legend tactile models use MX1A-C

not much info on the third version except it is very old and clicky.

I remember before you decided to edit the Mechanical Keyboard Guide someone inquired about the Cherry MX Clear switches and one member replied "55g" and you said "80g". I guess you were both right.

or is this old news?

by the way does anybody remember that forum member who was in the Mechanical Keyboard Guide last week or so who mentioned he was going to Asia?

Christine


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Manyak. I didn't notice this before but on the Cherry switches and boards island on geekhack there are 3 versions of Cherry MX Clear.

MX1A-C which is soft tactile, 55g.
MX1A-A which is tactile, 80g.

Deck Legend tactile models use MX1A-C


I've done a bit of in-home testing, and while it wasn't done with all nickels (I had to "cheat" with some mouse weights), I can confirm that the switches on a Deck Legend Frost do not actuate anywhere near 55g. I had at least 70g of weights on one of my keys and it hadn't actuated yet.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Manyak. I didn't notice this before but on the Cherry switches and boards island on geekhack there are 3 versions of Cherry MX Clear.

MX1A-C which is soft tactile, 55g.
MX1A-A which is tactile, 80g.

Deck Legend tactile models use MX1A-C

not much info on the third version except it is very old and clicky.

I remember before you decided to edit the Mechanical Keyboard Guide someone inquired about the Cherry MX Clear switches and one member replied "55g" and you said "80g". I guess you were both right.

or is this old news?

by the way does anybody remember that forum member who was in the Mechanical Keyboard Guide last week or so who mentioned he was going to Asia?

Christine

lol yeah I figured that out a while ago now. I was looking through the deck forum one day and saw that they mentioned the MX1A-C, and was like wait a minute I think I messed up.

But one other thing I noticed while looking at the graphs I was posting in the guide is that on the graph for the MX1A-C, the actuation point is at 55g but the tactile bump you have to get over goes up to 65g. So it _should_ be listed as 65. I also remember someone said that they put 70g or 75g on it and it still didn't actuate. So I'm not sure anymore.

And do you mean this member?

Edit: there you go, 70g







. That's what I get for taking my sweet time to answer.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn*


I've done a bit of in-home testing, and while it wasn't done with all nickels (I had to "cheat" with some mouse weights), I can confirm that the switches on a Deck Legend Frost do not actuate anywhere near 55g. I had at least 70g of weights on one of my keys and it hadn't actuated yet.


in the PDF it says

initial force: 40 cN 
actuation force: 60 cN + 20 cN (linear and latching)
45 cN + 20 cN (pressure point)
55 cN + 20 cN

all this is german to me.

I don't think it should be changed. the actuation point is all that really matters. to be honest it doesn't sound like these are all that great compared to the linear for gaming. yes that is him. thank you.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

By the way, I'm really, really liking these MY switches for gaming. I just took the board I got from VCheez out again and I don't even know why I put it away in the first place anymore. They're linear, but they require such a high force near the end of the travel that you _never_ bottom out. And they're a lot easier to get used to than MX blacks, because subtle variations in the force you apply barely make a difference.

They royally suck for typing though. Even worse than the blacks.


----------



## RayvinAzn

I'm still looking into getting some more nickels, Logitech might have lied about how much their mouse weights actually weigh.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


By the way, I'm really, really liking these MY switches for gaming. I just took the board I got from VCheez out again and I don't even know why I put it away in the first place anymore. They're linear, but they require such a high force near the end of the travel that you _never_ bottom out. And they're a lot easier to get used to than MX blacks, because subtle variations in the force you apply barely make a difference.

They royally suck for typing though. Even worse than the blacks.


I know which one you're talking about the G81-7000. it has a back plate and nice double shot key caps which fit the Filco Majestouch.

Christine


----------



## PropNut

My second set of antique Royal Typewriter keys should arrive in a few days (gotta love ebay).I will post a link to my "Steampunk a Model M" thread. I have a few ideas on how to add leds to each key. Muhahahhhaaa! I was thinking of selling my steampunked Dell AT101w, still have not decided. It makes a great backup keyboard.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I was thinking of picking up an AT101W off of ebay, they're like $15-20. How much would you sell your steampunked one for?


----------



## PropNut

Hmm...not cheap, sorry


















but we should discuss that in PMs if you really are interested. I just wanted to mention my intention to ruin a perfectly good Model M, lol.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


And do you mean this member?

Edit: there you go, 70g







. That's what I get for taking my sweet time to answer.


next on the list is either a new monitor or a keyboard and I want a G80-5000. I wanted to ask Kip if he could find one. you know that scene in Christmas Vacation when Clark looks at the Tree and it's glowing? enough said









Christine


----------



## PropNut

The G80-5000 has Cherry Blues? Or am I misremebering? So many good keyboards out there....too bad I am so cheap


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


The G80-5000 has Cherry Blues? Or am I misremebering? So many good keyboards out there....too bad I am so cheap










both Cherry MX Brown and Cherry MX Black (Windows Keys on the Left)










there is another model with a standard backspace and enter key.










Christine


----------



## Manyak

I'd love one of those, if only they put the B on the right side instead.


----------



## PropNut

Oh I like it! Hmmm, add a bit of brass here, copper there....definate potential, lol.

I am reading through Cherry's gamer website. I did not know they had a gaming division.

http://www.raptor-gaming.de/raptor/Produkte/k1.htm


----------



## lmnop

it's become such a collectors item. if these were on eBay they would easily go $200-300 in a auction. webwit and lowpoly on geekhack own one. webwit totally customized his with a new set of key caps.










looks like he didn't have any spacebar issues.

Christine


----------



## BigMak911

Can anyone recommend an efficient way to avoid bottom out on a mechanical keyboard? I picked up the DAS Model-S Professional, I'm trying REALLY hard to like it, but I've always bottomed out the keys and do it EASILY on this one... are the blue switches just too light?


----------



## PropNut

BigMak, you might try using felt under the keys. I have also seen the use of sound deadening rubber adhesive panels being used under keys. I am not sure that would be a good fit for a Das though as I do not have one to experiment with.

Christine, I will keep an eye out for two. There is a local computer recycler that I visit once in a while, you never know.


----------



## BigMak911

@Prop: Thanks for the response, but the issue is less with noise than with weird feel... I can get used to the noise if the noise isn't a problem... I PMmed Manyak about the issue earlier and he said that the crunchy noise is because I was bottoming out the keys and it's almost painful to only press down until the bump and to prevent bottoming out so I was wondering if there's any way to retrain my fingers... or will the felt help with preventing bottoming?


----------



## Crazy9000

Try typing lighter, that should make it easier to stop pressing the key. It will just take time to make the muscle memory for it though.


----------



## lmnop

I am pretty sure light force switches are easier not to bottom out.

here some more pictures and info.

looks like Height and Tilt Feet.










Rubber?










Sculpted Keys.










Double Shot Key Caps










Back Plate










Cherry MX Black Linear switches










Cherry MX Brown switches










thanks but if you find one keep it to yourself!

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Propnut: Keep an eye out for three, I might just find a way to move that B key









Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigMak911* 
Can anyone recommend an efficient way to avoid bottom out on a mechanical keyboard? I picked up the DAS Model-S Professional, I'm trying REALLY hard to like it, but I've always bottomed out the keys and do it EASILY on this one... are the blue switches just too light?

If it's _that_ much trouble for you, it's possible that you're one of the people who need to really concentrate on not bottoming out to get used to it (like I was). So try pushing down on each key really slow while you're typing, and always make sure you don't bottom out. The more used to it you get the faster you'll type. And if you start to bottom out again, slow down again. It took me 2 days of this to get used to it, and then a few hours again a week later after I started slipping up.

If in a few days you're not significantly better then yeah, you'd probably enjoy a heavier switch more.


----------



## olli3

Not sure how long you have had your board but after about a week im still getting used to my filco with brown MX switches. Im pretty much there with not bottoming the keys out but I have to concentrate to do it all the time, but i type much faster when i do it, its quite amazing! Id just try and really make an attempt to lightly touch the keys and let your fingers glide on the board, after a while you will get it and you will probably type alot faster.

I guess it also depends on how you type, if you touch type it will probably be easier to pick up touching the keys lighter as your fingers are moving faster anyway. (no evidence for this, just me thinking...)


----------



## PropNut

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
thanks but if you find one keep it to yourself!

Christine

Naa, you would be welcome to it. I do not collect keyboards, I just like to play with them. (as in cut them up and make them differenct). It would be a shame to do if they are that rare.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Propnut: Keep an eye out for three, I might just find a way to move that B key









there are 2 models.

the one with the L shaped enter key is the one with the strange layout.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
take a look at my second to last post. there are 2 models.

Christine

Yeah, the first one's got a german layout, the second is US ANSI. But on both models the B key is on the left hand's section. I hit it with my right index.

I'm talking about the actual letter B, not Backspace


----------



## PropNut

Hmm, in that case Manyak, you would need to rewire the entire keyboard. Lucky for you I have been reading up on installing and configuring HID devices!


----------



## lmnop

you're probably going to laugh but my favorite key caps are Compaq. I don't know what they do to make them so soft.

look at the size of the tabs key compared to the shift key. there should be a rule the tabs key shouldn't be bigger than the shift key!

doesn't look like anything in that layout is where it belongs. Germans are backwards people.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PropNut* 
Hmm, in that case Manyak, you would need to rewire the entire keyboard. Lucky for you I have been reading up on installing and configuring HID devices!









lol I know, I'm fully prepared to. I've wanted to use an ergonomic board for so long but never found one that's just right. So the only choice is to mod one.

And it's not too hard to rewire it. All I'll have to do is run a pair of wires from the original traces over to the other side.

Then again, extending that metal plate is gonna be real tricky :/


----------



## PropNut

Hmmm...I was envisioning a complete upgrade.....dual joysticks, with several extra axis' thrown in for good measure.....perhaps 20-30 joystick buttons....hmmm....you know this is all do-able right?









http://www.leobodnar.com/


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PropNut*


Hmmm...I was envisioning a complete upgrade.....dual joysticks, with several extra axis' thrown in for good measure.....perhaps 20-30 joystick buttons....hmmm....you know this is all do-able right?









http://www.leobodnar.com/


Oh yeah, the physical mod work is actually more difficult than the electrical/software part of it.


----------



## PropNut

Not at all....a sheet of 3/4"x4'x8' plywood (cabinet grade birch or maple...perhaps a nice cherry...get it...cherry) would do wonders!


----------



## Manyak

True, true. You do have that wood look going. But it would look kind of weird for my setup :/


----------



## PropNut

Ok, enough sillyness...I have students to torture tomorrow. Good night all.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

well on ebay there's someone selling custom wood framed keyboards with either blues or browns for 1k each.

Btw, what's this bottoming out issue I hear. Is it something that is evident on all mechanical keyboards and I've yet to notice or something

BTW I think I'm fully immersed into this thing; I just got another board in addition to the Irocks browns - a tenkeyless filco blue, the one manyak originally had on sale on the forum.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Btw, what's this bottoming out issue I hear. Is it something that is evident on all mechanical keyboards and I've yet to notice or something

Bottoming out is exactly what it sounds like - when you push your key all the way down so the keycap contacts the keyboard frame, usually resulting in a rather loud noise. I wouldn't really call it an issue, more a law of physics.


----------



## bengore

just received my Filco 10keyless MechKB BlueCherry, excited to Open it Up and here the lOud Noise, hehe


----------



## drjoey1500

I never really got used to the black alps switches. I guess I got a little better about not bottoming them out, but it is really hard. It takes a little force to get past the tactile bump, and when you do it gives way and is really easy to bottom out (in fact its pretty hard not to).

Ah well, linear switches until I mod the other one.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
well on ebay there's someone selling custom wood framed keyboards with either blues or browns for 1k each.

Btw, what's this bottoming out issue I hear. Is it something that is evident on all mechanical keyboards and I've yet to notice or something

BTW I think I'm fully immersed into this thing; I just got another board in addition to the Irocks browns - a tenkeyless filco blue, the one manyak originally had on sale on the forum.

yea it's not a issue/problem with the keyboard. You already bottom out membrane boards to actuate anyway. with switches like Cherry Browns or Blues, they actually activate half way down the push, so you technically dont need to push all the way down to type. You can use a lot less force to type on Blues.

when i get back on my MS Natural Pro at home, i find it hard to type on...and it's supposed to be "natural" lol


----------



## PropNut

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
well on ebay there's someone selling custom wood framed keyboards with either blues or browns for 1k each.

I have a CNC router system on order for my cabinet shop...I was thinking about making keyboard housings just like those on ebay....I will have to look further into it though. (and no, they will not run 1000.00 each, lol)


----------



## KipH

I did some looking for the Cherry Ergo. Interesting history for it. It was made in limited numbers and discontinued in 97. Then 30 were found in a box in Japan. The have become a "collectors" item. My wife nearly dropped out of her chair when she seen the price. I could buy to good used scooters for one of them.

The Chinese usually put no value on old things (old ideas yes) but building and items are not cherished as antiques except in specific categories (pottery). So, if there is a more resent version of that let me know. Also Cherry seems mostly Japan, but does anyone know the OEM for them? Is there an switch factory in Taiwan or China? I know Gigabyte got out of the business. I will have to write them and see where they got theirs.


----------



## lmnop

I wish I had more information









in a old geekhack thread for a eBay auction one sold for $405 in 2008.

there has to be some in Asia!

anyways... back to reality.

see look at these Dr. Louis G-Power Mechanical Keyboards (scroll to bottom). they are not available in North America. looks like they have Cherry MX Blue switches, Media Keys, USB 2.0 Hub, MAC Compatible, Silicone Wrist Rest, Key Cap Puller and USB to PS/2 adapter all for 1999 Taiwan Dollar = $62 USD?

ridiculous!

Christine


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Have to see what shipping is like. If someone's in Asia they could buy them and ship them over to the US. If it's under $30 shipping then that would be amazing.


----------



## lmnop

I think Kip should start a export business


























looks like Costar manufactured them. pretty similar to the Matias Tactile Pro 2.0 which sold for $149 USD and had ***ka switches.

Christine


----------



## KipH

Wow. That Matias got me real excited, then I seen it was blue









I am a bad typist. Blues are not for me. My wife keeps saying "You have an awesome board (G15 mkII) why you want a new one." And with 2 kids under 3 I get little time to game any more
















But I could definitely buy one ore more and ship to you if you wanted. I would only charge you 1 Dr. Pepper ($35Nt) for my time. I would guess (and its a real guess) about $20 US for shipping ($600Nt or so).


----------



## lmnop

I found that online retailer and Dr. Louis G-Power Mechanical Keyboard series by random it is a complete bargain for the price all I can tell you is it was manufactured by Costar which probably have a plant in Taiwan. you live in the mecca of mechanical keyboards.

i'm sure Manyak can give you a couple rare keyboards to search for.

here is another the Cherry G80-3494LYCUS (1099 TwD = $34 USD)

this keyboard is great US Layout, Cherry MX Red switches and it has full n-key rollover with PS/2.

if I am reading the translation right.
G80-3494LYCUS-0 (White) housing is made out of Polystyrol, Key Caps are made out of PBT and Laser Etch.
G80-3494LYCUS-2 (Black) housing is made out of ABS, Key Caps are made out of POM and Laser Etch.

Christine


----------



## KipH

And what is this? http://www.armygroup.com.tw/shop/goods.php?id=1651

Rubber dome laptop type or something else? "Patent Scissor key design "

And they raised the killing, always a good thing!

Quote:



Dear, Hello ~ we have raised to the next kill will be automatically reply to original price ^ _ ^ from time to time we will release the next killing Thank you ^ _ ^


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


And what is this? http://www.armygroup.com.tw/shop/goods.php?id=1651

Rubber dome laptop type or something else? "Patent Scissor key design "

And they raised the killing, always a good thing!


The scissor switch is now explained in the OP of this thread (whereas it wasn't in the recent past).


----------



## Kaankin

Hey Kip! Do you know of any stores in HK? My g/f is going there this Sunday and will be there for 2 weeks, well between there and Vietnam. I was wondering if you might know of some places where she could go to? I already made up my mind with the Filco 10 keyless browns but i'f she finds one of those mentioned boards for cheap it would be nice to have an extra.







Thx!


----------



## lmnop

one thing I noticed is Filco and Topre are not cheaper in Asia









Christine


----------



## rpsgc

Would a Unicomp SpaceSaver be worth the trouble of buying it from the US, with the shipping cost and taxes, waiting time and customs versus simply buying a 7G ?


----------



## KipH

I have only been computer shopping once in Hong Kong and was greatly disappointed.
HK you buy cameras, watches and suits.
Nam you buy clothes, cigarettes and pirate movies.

But the bread and Pho in Vietnam are great!


----------



## Bizong

got my majestouch tactile click and oh boy is it nice. Is it normal to bottom out the space bar alot?


----------



## mtbiker033

my das ultimate is out for delivery! I can't wait to try it out, pics forthcoming.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rpsgc*


Would a Unicomp SpaceSaver be worth the trouble of buying it from the US, with the shipping cost and taxes, waiting time and customs versus simply buying a 7G ?


That's up to you. I guess it really depends on how much you'd like buckling springs and if you can or can't find an old Model M over there.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bizong*


got my majestouch tactile click and oh boy is it nice. Is it normal to bottom out the space bar alot?


Yeah if you're only bottoming out the spacebar don't worry about it, it's the rest of the fingers that are important. But if it bothers you, get a single MX Black switch and put its spring into the spacebar switch, this way it becomes stiffer.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bizong*


got my majestouch tactile click and oh boy is it nice. Is it normal to bottom out the space bar alot?


I have a M_ajestouch Tactile Click "Otaku" NKRO _and I happen to do the same thing alot. I would go with what Manyak said, and change the switch if it bothers you.

I left it how it is, as I used the board as a gaming one for awhile before I moved over to my _Majestouch Linear Force NKRO_ which uses Cherry MX Black switches. Which I can say doesn't have that issue on the space bar at all any more. 
It's not as nice for typing though. But it's better than my laptop's scissor switches, or my basic PS/2 Keyboard. 
The switch on the typing side is a bit of an undertaking, but if you get used to the blacks, it's not so bad.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I have a M_ajestouch Tactile Click "Otaku" NKRO _and I happen to do the same thing alot. I would go with what Manyak said, and change the switch if it bothers you.


Not change the switch, just the spring inside it. So it becomes a stiffer Cherry Blue (which is = to a Cherry Green)









Of course you could change the whole switch too, but then it feels a little weird.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Not change the switch, just the spring inside it. So it becomes a stiffer Cherry Blue (which is = to a Cherry Green)









Of course you could change the whole switch too, but then it feels a little weird.


I've considered using my old Otaku and changing it so that it was Cherry MX Browns on the whole board, besides Space/Ship/WSAD being MX Blacks.

And possibly putting stiffer switches into the Num Pad. As I attack that thing like an old adding machine.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I've considered using my old Otaku and changing it so that it was Cherry MX Browns on the whole board, besides Space/Ship/WSAD being MX Blacks.

And possibly putting stiffer switches into the Num Pad. As I attack that thing like an old adding machine.

Hey if it works for you then go for it. I'd go absolutely _nuts_ having only WASD and shift as linear keys while typing, lol.


----------



## Kaankin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
I have only been computer shopping once in Hong Kong and was greatly disappointed.
HK you buy cameras, watches and suits.
Nam you buy clothes, cigarettes and pirate movies.

But the bread and Pho in Vietnam are great!

Ok well thx!







She is getting me a watch thou!







. I'll have her ask and look around when she is shopping. Thx again!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Hey if it works for you then go for it. I'd go absolutely _nuts_ having only WASD and shift as linear keys while typing, lol.

That's why I'm going to try it, I don't know how it will go.

My left hand always "hovers" above keys, while my right rests on keys. So I don't think it will bug me that much. But it could also be very odd.

I'm just trying to look for a nice balance of gaming & typing. As I type all the time (OCN Post per day







) but I also spend a large amount of time gaming. And the tactile feedback of the blacks is just so much nicer for me. It's like when they put rumble into controllers. Life felt complete.


----------



## Manyak

Why don't you try expanding a keyboard instead? Like, build an additional part on the left with a bunch of keys for gaming. Then you could wire the terminals of the black switches to the ones of the browns on the main section and be done with it.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Why don't you try expanding a keyboard instead? Like, build an additional part on the left with a bunch of keys for gaming. Then you could wire the terminals of the black switches to the ones of the browns on the main section and be done with it.

I've considered the option before.

Though, to the same regard, I'd always to put media keys at the top, and the whole endeavor seems to be a bit more time consuming that what I have right now.

I would definitely love if someone actually started building quality keyboards Like the Z-Boards with mechanical switches.
That, or have a keyboard that you can just fold up and swap out a whole key-layout. One custom one for gaming that slides into the frame. And nother that better designed for typing.


----------



## Manyak

Well if you could swap the entire key layout, including going from brown to black switches, you might as well just stick with using two separate boards.

But I think that if the 2 big companies ever start making mechanical boards - namely Logitech and Microsoft - then we might end up seeing some really fancy stuff. With the recent jump in popularity of mechanical boards they'd make a killing.


----------



## olli3

Just glue a filco MX black to the under side of a filco MX brown and flip it over when you want to game







lol


----------



## Tator Tot

It's all about marketing.

If they both started marketing the Logitech G Series & Microsoft Sidewinder series of products with Mechanical switches and saying that (whatever switch they use) is the best for gaming, they'll sell like hot cakes.

On the same side, if they take their Business Oriented products and do the same, claiming that the Mechanical switches will help people with typing then again, it'll be the same experience.

It's all about the investment and marketing.

I'd love to see the prices drop. Right now my favorite board that's good at typing and gaming (ABS M1) is only $50. The lack of NKRO and it's tendency to bottom out a bit easier than other boards is the only downfall.
It's a great price as a trail though. And I still keep it around at my "workstation" where I repair other computers for folks.


----------



## UnAimed

What does my Logitech g19 use?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *UnAimed*


What does my Logitech g19 use?


I think it uses Scissor switches, but I could be wrong. The G15/G13 were Rubber Domes.


----------



## UnAimed

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I think it uses Scissor switches, but I could be wrong. The G15/G13 were Rubber Domes.


Can I just pull the key off to check?


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *UnAimed*


Can I just pull the key off to check?


yeah, well if its scissor, then it'll be hard to put back on
But they are rubber domes, i just dont know if theyre scissor which i mostly doubt


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *UnAimed*


Can I just pull the key off to check?


It won't be fun to put it back on, but yes you can.


----------



## UnAimed

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234*


yeah, well if its scissor, then it'll be hard to put back on
But they are rubber domes, i just dont know if theyre scissor which i mostly doubt


Im scared to break the keyboard I don't want to just pull them off lol.


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *UnAimed*


Im scared to break the keyboard I don't want to just pull them off lol.


what keyboard do u have?
g19 as u were askin?


----------



## UnAimed

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234*


what keyboard do u have?
g19 as u were askin?


I have the logitech G19 yes. I am typing from it right now.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *UnAimed*


What does my Logitech g19 use?


Rubber membrane. A cheap quality one that degrades quickly over time.


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *UnAimed*


I have the logitech G19 yes. I am typing from it right now.


yeah it uses rubber dome so its aeasy to take the key out


----------



## UnAimed

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234*


yeah it uses rubber dome so its aeasy to take the key out


I just removed one and yes its rubber dome thing







I like the keyboard though because I always use it in the night for long gaming sessions etc... And also the Display is very usefull.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Try picking up a cheap mechanical board to see if you like it. You can get a used Dell AT101W on ebay for like $15-20. They use the same switches as the ABS M1 Tator Tot mentioned earlier.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


It's all about marketing.

If they both started marketing the Logitech G Series & Microsoft Sidewinder series of products with Mechanical switches and saying that (whatever switch they use) is the best for gaming, they'll sell like hot cakes.

On the same side, if they take their Business Oriented products and do the same, claiming that the Mechanical switches will help people with typing then again, it'll be the same experience.

It's all about the investment and marketing.

I'd love to see the prices drop. Right now my favorite board that's good at typing and gaming (ABS M1) is only $50. The lack of NKRO and it's tendency to bottom out a bit easier than other boards is the only downfall. 
It's a great price as a trail though. And I still keep it around at my "workstation" where I repair other computers for folks.


Exactly. The problem for them is the long term strategy. Right now we estimate a 20 year average lifespan for mechanical boards (excluding any manufacturing defects). But when you think about it, the oldest mechanical boards still in use are the Model Ms and Fs, and after 25 years we're still waiting to find out when they're going to fail. Not needing to buy replacement keyboards as often means much lower sales.

But at the same time, if they made a keyboard with:
- Proper 104 key layout
- Choice of Cherry Blues or Browns
- gaming cluster on the left with choice of Cherry Blacks or Reds
- NKRO
- All keys fully hardware programmable and remappable (no need for drivers, like the Gateway Anykey)
- Thick, black ABS casing
- Steel plate mounted switches
- Double-shot and Dyesub ABS/PBT, DCS style keycaps with RGB backlighting
- A small, really wide S-IPS panel on top that works as a standard monitor - maybe around 800x320 or 600x200
- media buttons around the screen that use microswitches
- Powered USB hub with 2 ports on the back and 2 on each side, 1A per port
- pass-through audio ports
- built in KVM with dual-link DVI (2560x1600) support, that switches all the board's USB ports with it

I'd gladly pay $500 for something like this. That right there is my dream keyboard.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Try picking up a cheap mechanical board to see if you like it. You can get a used Dell AT101W on ebay for like $15-20. They use the same switches as the ABS M1 Tator Tot mentioned earlier.


Not exactly. The ones on the Dell are the original Alps switches. The ones on the ABS are simplified.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

ahhhhh just got my filco blues, tried it out..mmmm feels good man


----------



## Izvire

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


ahhhhh just got my filco blues, tried it out..mmmm feels good man


Pictures?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Exactly. The problem for them is the long term strategy. Right now we estimate a 20 year average lifespan for mechanical boards (excluding any manufacturing defects). But when you think about it, the oldest mechanical boards still in use are the Model Ms and Fs, and after 25 years we're still waiting to find out when they're going to fail. Not needing to buy replacement keyboards as often means much lower sales.

But at the same time, if they made a keyboard with:
- Proper 104 key layout
- Choice of Cherry Blues or Browns
- gaming cluster on the left with choice of Cherry Blacks or Reds
- NKRO
- All keys fully hardware programmable and remappable (no need for drivers, like the Gateway Anykey)
- Thick, black ABS casing
- Steel plate mounted switches
- Double-shot and Dyesub ABS/PBT, DCS style keycaps with RGB backlighting
- A small, really wide S-IPS panel on top that works as a standard monitor - maybe around 800x320 or 600x200
- media buttons around the screen that use microswitches
- Powered USB hub with 2 ports on the back and 2 on each side, 1A per port
- pass-through audio ports
- built in KVM with dual-link DVI (2560x1600) support, that switches all the board's USB ports with it

I'd gladly pay $500 for something like this. That right there is my dream keyboard.

Not exactly. The ones on the Dell are the original Alps switches. The ones on the ABS are simplified.


That would indeed be an amazing keyboard, and well worth the price, though I don't think I could justify the $500.









What kind of feel differences are there between the originals and the simplified?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Try picking up a cheap mechanical board to see if you like it. You can get a used Dell AT101W on ebay for like $15-20. They use the same switches as the ABS M1 Tator Tot mentioned earlier.


As Manyak said, it uses Simplified Alps, but the feel is very similar. And hard to distinguish between.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Exactly. The problem for them is the long term strategy. Right now we estimate a 20 year average lifespan for mechanical boards (excluding any manufacturing defects). But when you think about it, the oldest mechanical boards still in use are the Model Ms and Fs, and after 25 years we're still waiting to find out when they're going to fail. Not needing to buy replacement keyboards as often means much lower sales.

But at the same time, if they made a keyboard with:
- Proper 104 key layout
- Choice of Cherry Blues or Browns
- gaming cluster on the left with choice of Cherry Blacks or Reds
- NKRO
- All keys fully hardware programmable and remappable (no need for drivers, like the Gateway Anykey)
- Thick, black ABS casing
- Steel plate mounted switches
- Double-shot and Dyesub ABS/PBT, DCS style keycaps with RGB backlighting
- A small, really wide S-IPS panel on top that works as a standard monitor - maybe around 800x320 or 600x200
- media buttons around the screen that use microswitches
- Powered USB hub with 2 ports on the back and 2 on each side, 1A per port
- pass-through audio ports
- built in KVM with dual-link DVI (2560x1600) support, that switches all the board's USB ports with it

I'd gladly pay $500 for something like this. That right there is my dream keyboard.


My keyboard wet dream just was typed up.


----------



## mtbiker033

I just got my Das hooked up, and omg I love typing on it!!

pics!

I need to find a nice wrist rest though, I am used to having one.


----------



## The Rider

Quick question regarding the use of the ps/2 port.

In manyak's excellent guide, the case for use of the ps/2 port vs the usb port is clear, and that when a keyboard supports both the ps/2 port should always be used.

However, on a standard usb keyboard is there any advantage to be gained by attaching the keyboard to the ps/2 port via an adapter??


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The Rider* 
Quick question regarding the use of the ps/2 port.

In manyak's excellent guide, the case for use of the ps/2 port vs the usb port is clear, and that when a keyboard supports both the usb port should always be used.

However, on a standard usb keyboard is there any advantage to be gained by attaching the keyboard to the usb port via an adapter??

You mean the PS/2 port should always be used. And why would you use an adapter to attach a usb keyboard to a usb port?


----------



## The Rider

sorry; yes I meant always use ps/2 port and should I attach a standard usb keyboard via the ps/2 port.

You replied as I was editing my original post!!!


----------



## TwoCables

So are you wondering if there's any advantage in taking a regular USB keyboard, buying a regular USB to PS/2 adapter, and then using that as opposed to just not using such an adapter for keyboards that don't come with a PS/2 adapter?


----------



## The Rider

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
So are you wondering if there's any advantage in taking a regular USB keyboard, buying a regular USB to PS/2 adapter, and then using that as opposed to just not using such an adapter for keyboards that don't come with a PS/2 adapter?

Correct. Would this be more responsive, avoid USB bus conflicts etc??


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The Rider* 
sorry; yes I meant always use ps/2 port and should I attach a standard usb keyboard via the ps/2 port.

You replied as I was editing my original post!!!

lol









Well first off, the board has to support PS/2 as well. Most cheap-o USB boards are USB only. Plugging one of these into a PS/2 port requires an active adapter, which is nothing but a mess (and quite frankly, I'm not even sure they make them except the other way around).

But yes, you still gain the fact that it uses hardware interrupts.


----------



## The Rider

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
lol









Well first off, the board has to support PS/2 as well. Most cheap-o USB boards are USB only. Plugging one of these into a PS/2 port requires an active adapter, which is nothing but a mess (and quite frankly, I'm not even sure they make them except the other way around).

But yes, you still gain the fact that it uses hardware interrupts.

Gotcha. Not sure if my keyboard even supports this but will try it when I get home from work.

btw - your guide has inspired me - after 25yrs of hunting & pecking - to actually learn to type!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The Rider* 
Gotcha. Not sure if my keyboard even supports this but will try it when I get home from work.

btw - your guide has inspired me - after 25yrs of hunting & pecking - to actually learn to type!

Unfortunately, the Reclusa doesn't support it. It could end up being more trouble than it's worth. However, I'm not saying that it won't function. I'm just more or less guessing that it won't make any difference, and so it could be a waste of time.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The Rider* 
Gotcha. Not sure if my keyboard even supports this but will try it when I get home from work.

btw - your guide has inspired me - after 25yrs of hunting & pecking - to actually learn to type!

Awesome









You should pick up a mechanical board before you even start, this way you can form the muscle memory required not to bottom out the keys very easily


----------



## The Rider

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Unfortunately, the Reclusa doesn't support it. It could end up being more trouble than it's worth.

I suspected as much. Thanks anyway. rep +


----------



## The Rider

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Awesome









You should pick up a mechanical board before you even start, this way you can form the muscle memory required not to bottom out the keys very easily









Already ordered


----------



## TwoCables

There's nothing quite like knowing how to Touch Type. I remember when I was first able to type without looking at the keyboard; it was pretty cool being able to watch the monitor while I typed. Up to that point, I was absolutely unable to do it.

There are many other benefits, but they're all so hard for me to describe.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I took a class on touch typing completely on accident in seventh grade. I thought it was a programming class. But I said, "eh, ok, at least this will be an easy A." Probably one of the most beneficial classes of my entire K-12 school career.


----------



## Tator Tot

I've known how to type without looking since ~5 thanks to my Apple II.

It's never been a "new" thing to me. But that falls back on the fact that I was learning sentence structure, spelling, math, ect at that point in time (I was at private school 3-5), so my idea of typing was that it was just a required skill that everyone should learn. (like Math/Writing/ect)


----------



## olli3

Lol I have been meaning to learn how to touch type for about 6 years xD At the moment I type with 3 fingers on each hand and have just got my own way of typing. I don't ever look at the keys so I could probably learn to touch type fairly fast if I tried to do it...now I think about it, I really should do given the amount that I do type.

*forces self to touch type from now on* Currently at about 5 words per min! lmao


----------



## RayvinAzn

I had trouble touch-typing when I was younger. My school used Windows boxes that have the nubs on the "F" and "J" keys, but the family Apples we had at home either utilized nubs on the "D" and "K" keys or had none. They also had fairly dissimilar layouts (see the original Macintosh Keyboard M0110 and the Apple Keyboard M0116), so while I was still trying to figure out the home row things kept switching on me from school to home, and even between the two different computers we had there. I didn't really get good at touch-typing until we got a PowerMac 7500/100 and subsequently upgraded to the much more standard Apple Extended Keyboard II which was basically identical to all the machines at school.


----------



## The Rider

I'm trying to do 30 mins a day on this.

http://www.typingweb.com/

It's slow & painful but I'm persevering...

Any other tips gladly appreciated!


----------



## Crazy9000

Yeah just play those things where they put words up and they type them, until you can touch type, no matter how slow it is. From that point when you can first start to actually touch-type, just start typing like that for everything. You will start being able to type at a reasonable speed amazingly fast.


----------



## TwoCables

I taught myself how to type out of a fairly old book. It is an excellent book though because I was able to touch type pretty damn well over the time period of about 1 summer.

But this was something that I *really* wanted to do, so I learned very quickly (I was quite determined). I was very enthusiastic about it and it was actually very fun for me. But if it were just something that I was supposed to do (or something I was told to do), then it would have taken me an extremely long time because I would have always felt like doing other things instead.

I don't really remember exactly why I wanted to learn how to type, but I am extremely grateful for learning how.


----------



## drjoey1500

I think its also helpful to learn part of the time from typing from a book, so you can't look at the screen or keyboard. I can't even tell you how nice it is to be able to copy something down from a page without needing to check the screen or keys. Definitely try to avoid looking at the keys as much as possible.

Luckily for me, my parents made me learn to touch type when I was younger.


----------



## clownfart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *The Rider*


I'm trying to do 30 mins a day on this.

http://www.typingweb.com/

It's slow & painful but I'm persevering...

Any other tips gladly appreciated!


I used that website to learn a few months ago. After doing the first three tests I pretty much knew all the keys. I figured out punctuation and numbers on my own. Took about 2 weeks before I reached my previous speed, and a month to surpass it.

Don't give up people, it's much better to touch type and it's very easy to learn.


----------



## olli3

OK I've been forcing myself to touch type for about half a day now and I'm at a speed where its bearable to do so. Only trouble I'm having so far is backspace with little finger and I ALWAYS keep pressing caps lock instead of shift! Shift just seems like a stretch compared to all the other keys but I think the problem is that im still a bit too glued to the home row and need to loosen up a little bit.

I have to admit though it is great fun, its like I couldn't consciously tell you where any of the keys are without looking but my fingers go to them automatically! At this rate I imagine I will be back to my normal speed in a week, I already knew all the fingers to use for which keys so its just forcing myself to do it









edit- also, just wanted to rant about typing tutor software. I tried it, and I think its awful. Making me type asdf fdsa jkl; ;lkj over and over for me is impossible, yet I can type a sentence with no trouble. Its teaching something un natural and pointless, like teaching someone to talk by making them say tongue twisters repeatedly, its just not a skill that I need!! Yet someone must find it useful since every bit of software seems to make you do it...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *olli3* 
OK I've been forcing myself to touch type for about half a day now and I'm at a speed where its bearable to do so. Only trouble I'm having so far is backspace with little finger and I ALWAYS keep pressing caps lock instead of shift! Shift just seems like a stretch compared to all the other keys but I think the problem is that im still a bit too glued to the home row and need to loosen up a little bit.

I have to admit though it is great fun, its like I couldn't consciously tell you where any of the keys are without looking but my fingers go to them automatically! At this rate I imagine I will be back to my normal speed in a week, I already knew all the fingers to use for which keys so its just forcing myself to do it









I learned "by the book", so just in case you need to check yourself regarding which keys are hit with the left and which are with the right, here are some commonly confused keys:

Left:

5
T
G
B
Right:

6
Y
H
N
Notice how this section of keys follows the angle of all of the keys on the left side (1, Q, A, Z) as well as the angle of all the keys on the right (0, P, ;:, ?/). It's a huge backslash shape.

I can even show the key assignments for each finger should it be requested. After all, I have loads of time. But I just wanted to make sure and get this one out of the way since I see confusion about this sometimes.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *olli3* 
edit- also, just wanted to rant about typing tutor software. I tried it, and I think its awful. Making me type asdf fdsa jkl; ;lkj over and over for me is impossible, yet I can type a sentence with no trouble. Its teaching something un natural and pointless, like teaching someone to talk by making them say tongue twisters repeatedly, its just not a skill that I need!! Yet someone must find it useful since every bit of software seems to make you do it...









It's much more beneficial than you might ever realize (or, you might realize it when it's too late). I don't know how to verbalize why it's helpful, but try to believe me when I tell you that there's a very, very, very, very good reason as to why they do it. I guess I can describe it by saying that it has to do with "muscle memory".

When I learned by the book, I had to repeat keystrokes like that over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, etc. All I can say is this: I'm glad I went through it. I'm extremely grateful for the thorough lessons. I'm extremely grateful for having a very firm foundation on which to build my typing skills. If it weren't for all of that, then I'd have a weak, hollow and fragile foundation.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I learned "by the book", so just in case you need to check yourself regarding which keys are hit with the left and which are with the right, here are some commonly confused keys:

Left:

5
T
G
B
Right:

6
Y
H
N


There is no reason you can't hit B with either hand; it's perfectly in the middle.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


There is no reason you can't hit B with either hand; it's perfectly in the middle.


He's just talking about doing it by the book. The book says that B is with your left hand.

Though I hit it with my right hand too


----------



## Crazy9000

It actually makes no sense to always hit it with the left hand if you use left shift, as B is quite a stretch.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


It actually makes no sense to always hit it with the left hand if you use left shift, as B is quite a stretch.


The proper way to do it is to use the shift of the opposite hand. So if you're hitting the letter with the left hand, you use right shift. If the letter is hit with the right hand, you use the left shift. This way you never stretch for anything.


----------



## ljason8eg

For some reason I never use the right shift. Even on like A, Q, and Z I use left shift.


----------



## clownfart

Quote:


Originally Posted by *olli3* 
edit- also, just wanted to rant about typing tutor software. I tried it, and I think its awful. Making me type asdf fdsa jkl; ;lkj over and over for me is impossible, yet I can type a sentence with no trouble. Its teaching something un natural and pointless, like teaching someone to talk by making them say tongue twisters repeatedly, its just not a skill that I need!! Yet someone must find it useful since every bit of software seems to make you do it...









It's actually teaching you muscle memory. All the basic courses will be like that. After you learn the whole board, they usually give you paragraphs to improve speed.


----------



## Tator Tot

Anyone have info on this SIIG Board's switch type?

Also, anyone know what Cherry Gold switches are like?


----------



## Manyak

They are rebranded Solidtek 6600's. Which use Simplified White Alps.

Edit: Almost forgot the second part. The Cherry "gold crosspoint" means the contacts inside the switch are actual gold, not the stem color. G84 means it uses ML switches.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Not change the switch, just the spring inside it. So it becomes a stiffer Cherry Blue (which is = to a Cherry Green)









Of course you could change the whole switch too, but then it feels a little weird.

Personally, I don't mind a linear spacebar, and that has the advantage of bottoming out more slowly. On some keyboards with the Cherry brown switches, the spacebar is so absurdly stiff.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I learned "by the book", so just in case you need to check yourself regarding which keys are hit with the left and which are with the right, here are some commonly confused keys:

Left:

5
T
G
B
Right:

6
Y
H
N
Notice how this section of keys follows the angle of all of the keys on the left side (1, Q, A, Z) as well as the angle of all the keys on the right (0, P, ;:, ?/). It's a huge backslash shape.

I can even show the key assignments for each finger should it be requested. After all, I have loads of time. But I just wanted to make sure and get this one out of the way since I see confusion about this sometimes.

It's much more beneficial than you might ever realize (or, you might realize it when it's too late). I don't know how to verbalize why it's helpful, but try to believe me when I tell you that there's a very, very, very, very good reason as to why they do it. I guess I can describe it by saying that it has to do with "muscle memory".

When I learned by the book, I had to repeat keystrokes like that over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, etc. All I can say is this: I'm glad I went through it. I'm extremely grateful for the thorough lessons. I'm extremely grateful for having a very firm foundation on which to build my typing skills. If it weren't for all of that, then I'd have a weak, hollow and fragile foundation.


I always hit B with my right hand. I learned it wrong. I guess I knew I was supposed to use the left hand but the right hand just felt more natural and I guess I figured it didn't really matter.

Like Manyak pointed out, it makes for a really awkward typing experience on a ergonomic keyboard lol.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clownfart*


It's actually teaching you muscle memory. All the basic courses will be like that. After you learn the whole board, they usually give you paragraphs to improve speed.


Yep. It helps when you have to copy down a complicated word that you don't know how to spell. It's also useful if you ever get into stuff like programming where the words don't always make sense.

I didn't really go the whole way, I never got to the point of working in special characters and numbers into my normal typing without slowing down. It takes a few tries to find the ^ or & or something, or numbers. I can type them, but not at full speed. Maybe I should go back and learn it all the way







.


----------



## mtbiker033

first off I just wanted to say that you all have corrupted me and are responsible for this madness!!









i am in love with my first mech keyboard!

I just found a cool website for typing practice and type racing against other people:

http://app.typrx.com/#

I haven't really practiced in awhile and got 51wpm on my first practice run!

One issue I'm having with my das though, when I first booted with it connected, windows goes looking for drivers, though there are none needed for the keyboard. The kb and usb ports work fine and every time I boot up windows goes on a driver hunt, I took some pics of it (I <3 the snipping tool!).

I have a support ticket in with das and they responded quickly (a few hours) though they asked for more information to be clear on what was happening.


----------



## Manyak

Is it plugged in via PS/2 or USB?


----------



## mtbiker033

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Is it plugged in via PS/2 or USB?


ps/2 using the adapter


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mtbiker033*


ps/2 using the adapter


Try booting without the USB hub plugged in, just the keyboard. If it doesn't fix it, try it the other way around (the USB hub plugged in, but not the keyboard).

This way we can narrow down which part is causing the problem.


----------



## mtbiker033

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Try booting without the USB hub plugged in. See what happens.


will do! and btw thanks for the help!

brb


----------



## Manyak

anytime









But read my post again, I edited it while you were replying.


----------



## rpsgc

Oh great Manyak, guru of keyboards that klack klack, would you be so kind as to visit my newly created thread, as to not tarnish this one, and enlighten this poor soul?

http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...es-others.html

Much obliged.


----------



## mtbiker033

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


anytime









But read my post again, I edited it while you were replying.


i left too quick, I did just boot with only the ps/2 adapter plugged in and not the usb hub and now there was only 1 device not detected instead of 3 that happens when they both are.

I'm going to try it the other way around now and brb.

update:

with just the usb hub plugged in, it did the same thing. then I had to restart to get my keyboard connected and got the same single device error with them both connected.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
They are rebranded Solidtek 6600's. Which use Simplified White Alps.

Edit: Almost forgot the second part. The Cherry "gold crosspoint" means the contacts inside the switch are actual gold, not the stem color. G84 means it uses ML switches.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up man.

So that SIG Board looks to be about the same as my M1. I may pick it up to see if it's any different. And possibly sell it off later.

I'm looking at a new job soon, if so, buy more hardware and launch my review site.

+Ninjarep


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtbiker033* 
i left too quick, I did just boot with only the ps/2 adapter plugged in and not the usb hub and now there was only 1 device not detected instead of 3 that happens when they both are.

I'm going to try it the other way around now and brb.

update:

with just the usb hub plugged in, it did the same thing. then I had to restart to get my keyboard connected and got the same single device error with them both connected.

I don't know then. I mean, it still works so its as if there's something extra there that's not supposed to be. I guess see what Das says.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Ah, thanks for clearing that up man.

So that SIG Board looks to be about the same as my M1. I may pick it up to see if it's any different. And possibly sell it off later.

I'm looking at a new job soon, if so, buy more hardware and launch my review site.

+Ninjarep

There's also the SIIG minitouch if you want something a bit more compact with the same switches. But no it's nothing like the M1, that uses Black alps. These use white.

And hey feel free to throw any keyboards my way, I'll review the crap out of them for ya


----------



## mtbiker033

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
I don't know then. I mean, it still works so its as if there's something extra there that's not supposed to be. I guess see what Das says.

exactly, it works so no worries really! thanks for your help!


----------



## olli3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


It's much more beneficial than you might ever realize (or, you might realize it when it's too late). I don't know how to verbalize why it's helpful, but try to believe me when I tell you that there's a very, very, very, very good reason as to why they do it. I guess I can describe it by saying that it has to do with "muscle memory".

When I learned by the book, I had to repeat keystrokes like that over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, etc. All I can say is this: I'm glad I went through it. I'm extremely grateful for the thorough lessons. I'm extremely grateful for having a very firm foundation on which to build my typing skills. If it weren't for all of that, then I'd have a weak, hollow and fragile foundation.


OK I took note of what you said and just spent over an hour on a typing tutor program, and I'm beginning to get what you mean, my accuracy has definitely improved so far, so I'm going to try stick with it and see how it goes









On a side note, I keep pressing the space bar twice by accident, but not any other key. It happens often enough for it to become annoying, and I was hoping it would stop as I got used to the keyboard, but no luck so far! Would it feel weird to put black switch on the keyboard? Or is there another fix for this?

Perhaps it could even be fixed on the software side of things, it must be milliseconds apart as both spaces seem to appear at the same time, is there something that could do this?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
There's also the SIIG minitouch if you want something a bit more compact with the same switches. But no it's nothing like the M1, that uses Black alps. These use white.

And hey feel free to throw any keyboards my way, I'll review the crap out of them for ya









What's the difference between the Blacks & Whites?

I'll definitely have to pick it up to experience the difference though


----------



## aintz

i have a deck legend keyboard (used for about 2month now) but the A key is not responding anymore, is there someway i can go about fixing it myself? thanks in advanced


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


There is no reason you can't hit B with either hand; it's perfectly in the middle.


He's just talking about doing it by the book. The book says that B is with your left hand.

Though I hit it with my right hand too










In order to correctly follow the logic behind the reason why 5, T and G are hit with the left hand (in order to follow that physical angle on the keyboard), the 'B' key must be included too.

However, I do fully understand why it can be more efficient to use the right-index to press 'B' - especially when typing words that begin with a capital 'B' and ending with letters that are only typed with the right hand. When I think about it that way, it explains to me why ergonomic keyboards have the 'B' key on the right side. It's a very tiny nod to DVORAK. Although, I don't know what was first: ergonomic keyboards, or DVORAK.

But regardless, I learned by the book, and so I press the letter 'b' with my left index. And y'know, now that I am fully aware of it every time I type a word with the letter 'b' in it, I'm very grateful for it because it divides the work between my hands quite evenly each time.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


It actually makes no sense to always hit it with the left hand if you use left shift, as B is quite a stretch.


The proper way to do it is to use the shift of the opposite hand. So if you're hitting the letter with the left hand, you use right shift. If the letter is hit with the right hand, you use the left shift. This way you never stretch for anything.


The book I learned from taught me to use the right-shift key for the letter 'B' since it teaches pressing the 'B' key with the left hand.

What made you think that I was pressing the Left Shift key in order to press the 'B' key with my left hand? Was it because you are using the Left Shift key to press the 'B' key with your right hand?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *olli3*


OK I took note of what you said and just spent over an hour on a typing tutor program, and I'm beginning to get what you mean, my accuracy has definitely improved so far, so I'm going to try stick with it and see how it goes










The more disciplined you are about learning how to type exactly as you are taught without trying to find any shortcuts, the stronger your foundation will be. It is exactly like building a house or some other kind of building: the foundation needs to be very strong, otherwise there's really no point in building anything on top of it.

If you can acquire a good book that teaches how to type as well as a stand of some kind, then you'll strengthen your foundation even more because learning how to type from a book forces you to look away from the monitor while you type. With this skill, you won't need to depend on watching what you type as it appears on the monitor; you can close your eyes and go strictly by feel. As a result, you will be able to type with your eyes closed and find it extremely easy to detect any mistakes in your typing. It becomes instinctive and it allows for faster typing.

Although, this skill is partially enabled or given by the muscle memory learning where you're told to repeat keys over and over and over. But still, it's completed by learning how to type without needing to see what you're typing. Being able to detect typographical errors by feel alone will enable you to *instinctively* correct mistakes as you're typing instead of correcting them because you can see that you've typed it incorrectly. So, the corrections you make while typing can happen much faster since they will be nearly instantaneous as opposed to relying upon your sight. It's almost a way to realize that the hand is truly quicker than the eye.

So, learning from software is ok, but learning from a book is superior. Otherwise, you will end up building an imperfection into your foundation that will be very difficult to fix. Or you can think of it as never learning how to ride a bicycle that doesn't have training wheels.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *olli3*


On a side note, I keep pressing the space bar twice by accident, but not any other key. It happens often enough for it to become annoying, and I was hoping it would stop as I got used to the keyboard, but no luck so far! Would it feel weird to put black switch on the keyboard? Or is there another fix for this?

Perhaps it could even be fixed on the software side of things, it must be milliseconds apart as both spaces seem to appear at the same time, is there something that could do this?











I think that it's due to pressing the Spacebar too long or perhaps pressing it too hard. But I recommend testing the Spacebar by itself by tapping it with your index finger or something just to see if it's working properly. If it is, then you know that it's your physical approach. Now that I think about it, I think I did the same thing.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


What's the difference between the Blacks & Whites?

I'll definitely have to pick it up to experience the difference though










Kind of like the difference between cherry browns and blues. The whites are clicky and have a sharper tactile bump. And they are stiffer.


----------



## v193r

wat does the happy hacking keyboard feel like?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


wat does the happy hacking keyboard feel like?



Very light switches, great tactility. So far I haven't heard of anyone regretting buying it (or any of the other Topre boards for that matter).


----------



## v193r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Very light switches, great tactility. So far I haven't heard of anyone regretting buying it (or any of the other Topre boards for that matter).


best for typing?
ur prob not goin to answer that strait forward. is their responce time the fastest thou?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


best for typing?
ur prob not goin to answer that strait forward. is their responce time the fastest thou?


lol









They're good for anything you want to do with them.

And I don't know if Topre programmed a debouncing time in, but theoretically they shouldn't need one at all. So yes I think it's safe to say that they have the fastest response time.


----------



## v193r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


lol









They're good for anything you want to do with them.

And I don't know if Topre programmed a debouncing time in, but theoretically they shouldn't need one at all. So yes I think it's safe to say that they have the fastest response time.


my keyboard dream is to own a Happy Hacking Professional 2 (Dark Gray) with blank keys and learn colemak with it. It would be really useful if i become a programmer or hacker hehe. I love the crl key being where caps is.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Kind of like the difference between cherry browns and blues. The whites are clicky and have a sharper tactile bump. And they are stiffer.


Well, considering I've only had Cherry Blacks & Red's, I'll have to give them a shot.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Well, considering I've only had Cherry Blacks & Red's, I'll have to give them a shot.


If you liked gaming on blacks, whites are absolutely awesome. They're just as stiff, and they feature the same tactile bump as the browns. They feel very precise as far as Cherry MX-based switches go, and they're easily my choice for almost any sort of gaming.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *aintz*


i have a deck legend keyboard (used for about 2month now) but the A key is not responding anymore, is there someway i can go about fixing it myself? thanks in advanced


e-mail Adam at TG3/Deck or ask in the General/Support section on the Deck Legend forums.

Christine


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn*


If you liked gaming on blacks, whites are absolutely awesome. They're just as stiff, and they feature the same tactile bump as the browns. They feel very precise as far as Cherry MX-based switches go, and they're easily my choice for almost any sort of gaming.


I may really have to check them out then, see if I like gaming on them more.

I still haven't found my "perfect" switch type yet. So I'm in the road with experimenting with what I want and like. 
Though, it's all about balance, because I type while I game; it's hard to find something that's nice to use while playing my games, but also is a smooth typer.

Oddly enough, I do like typing on my Red's more than I did the browns.


----------



## Manyak

Tator, exactly which switches have you tried so far and what do you and don't you like about each?

Let's see if we can narrow down some choices for you.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Tator, exactly which switches have you tried so far and what do you and don't you like about each?

Let's see if we can narrow down some choices for you.


Cherry MX Blacks (Majestouch Linear Force)
Cherry MX Browns (Majestouch Tactile Touch)
Cherry MX Reds ( G80-3600)
Cherry MX Blue (Majestouch Tactile Click "Otaku") 
Simplified Black Alps (ABS M1) 
Alps Strongman (Matias Tactile Pro 2.0)

I didn't get much time with the Alps strongman though, I picked the board up for a friend who did alot of typing and programing on his Mac (he is a tad of a total fanboy.) 
Though, I didn't like them to much. I bottomed them out way fast and the noise was annoying to me.

Cherry Blacks:
Great for gaming, I love the stiff feel and the no noise from them. I don't bottom them out very often, unless I honestly start key spamming (rapid pressing of the same key in succession.) Typing is a little lack luster as it's more of a chore to type because they are so stiff

Cherry Reds:
Gaming not quiet as good as the blacks, but they still work well. Typing is better, but if I really get into gaming, I can bottom out the keyswhen I start using multi-key combos

Browns/Blues: To light and I don't like the clicks.

Simplified Black Alps:
They were nice, but my M1's lack of full NKRO has caused me some issues in the first place. And I don't like the click they make either. (from bottoming out.)

In the end, I'm a fan of my blacks, but I would like to find something that's just inbetween the blacks & the reds.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Is that before or after the Filco? lol










Flat Chicklets (like the apples) kills my GWAM (all with over 98% accuracy)

Rubber Dome = 92.4 GWAM
Chicklets = 83.6 GWAM
MX Reds = 104 GWAM
MX Blacks = 100 GWAM
MX Blues = 119.4 GWAM
MX Browns = 122.3 GWAM
Simplified Alps = 106.2 GWAM

By far, Blues and browns max out my typing speed. (These are 5 runs averages by the way.) Though, chicklets kill my typing speed, the rubber domes did better than expected. 
Reds & Blacks were expected as I always seem to hold the keys down just a tad longer than Blues or Browns. Alps are the same.

This was 5 tests on each switch type for a 500word Paper, requiring over 98% accuracy (or you fail the test,) which I did not fail at all.


----------



## PaulHDietz

Hello Keyboard Afficionados!

I'm the researcher behind the new anti-ghosting feature in Microsoft's SideWinder X4 keyboard. I just wanted to let you know that we have a new site up that discusses the ghosting issue, and it includes a simple browser-based, on-screen keyboard so you can quickly get an idea of what ghosting issues you have with your own keyboard. The front page is here:

http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscie...iGhosting.mspx

As a caveat, I should point out that a browser-based keyboard tester is limited by what keystrokes get passed up from the system through the browser. So it won't tell you everything. But it should give you a feel for the capabilities of your keyboard.

The site also includes a detailed description of what the limitations of the X4 are with respect to simultaneous key presses. I'm very pleased that we are able to provide this sort of information. It should help clear up some confusion about what is and is not possible.

By the way, I know some of you will take issue with the definition of anti-ghosting as pressed keys that fail to function correctly. I know this is not what may have been originally meant, but it is how it is currently used by the industry.

Thanks!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PaulHDietz*


Hello Keyboard Afficionados!

I'm the researcher behind the new anti-ghosting feature in Microsoft's SideWinder X4 keyboard. I just wanted to let you know that we have a new site up that discusses the ghosting issue, and it includes a simple browser-based, on-screen keyboard so you can quickly get an idea of what ghosting issues you have with your own keyboard. The front page is here:

http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscie...iGhosting.mspx

As a caveat, I should point out that a browser-based keyboard tester is limited by what keystrokes get passed up from the system through the browser. So it won't tell you everything. But it should give you a feel for the capabilities of your keyboard.

The site also includes a detailed description of what the limitations of the X4 are with respect to simultaneous key presses. I'm very pleased that we are able to provide this sort of information. It should help clear up some confusion about what is and is not possible.

By the way, I know some of you will take issue with the definition of anti-ghosting as pressed keys that fail to function correctly. I know this is not what may have been originally meant, but it is how it is currently used by the industry.

Thanks!


But by calling it Anti-Ghosting, Microsoft is enabling people to remain uneducated regarding what Anti-Ghosting really is. What Microsoft is marketing as "Anti-Ghosting" is really "N-Key Rollover". "Ghosting" is when you press like 2 keys, and a third character (which you did not press or even _accidentally_ press) appears. N-Key Rollover refers to how many keys can register simultaneously. Microsoft needs to learn and teach this difference in order to help people feel confident in buying from them so that they can further increase sales.

Why not use the ads and marketing to teach the difference and sell the keyboard at the same time? I'd be much more comfortable buying from a company who knows what they're talking about instead of just using terms in order to make money. It's hard to explain what I'm trying to say, but it's like Microsoft is taking advantage of the lack of education and capitalizing on it. I don't like buying from a company who's willing to do that. It shows no respect to the customer.

I'm not sure how else to attempt to convey what I'm trying to say, so I apologize if this only confuses people.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I agree with tator about the browns. They're too light sometimes. Although I have to say I've never been able to type faster than on those browns, but I bottom out so much. Maybe it's just an old habit from the g15's.

BTW the Microsoft Sidewinder x4 does look pretty danm sleek and neat. I wonder if those macro keyes are close enough to the keyboard layout or not for quick presses.

Here's my new blues:


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Cherry MX Blacks (Majestouch Linear Force)
Cherry MX Browns (Majestouch Tactile Touch)
Cherry MX Reds ( G80-3600)
Cherry MX Blue (Majestouch Tactile Click "Otaku") 
Simplified Black Alps (ABS M1) 
Alps Strongman (Matias Tactile Pro 2.0)

I didn't get much time with the Alps strongman though, I picked the board up for a friend who did alot of typing and programing on his Mac (he is a tad of a total fanboy.) 
Though, I didn't like them to much. I bottomed them out way fast and the noise was annoying to me.

Cherry Blacks:
Great for gaming, I love the stiff feel and the no noise from them. I don't bottom them out very often, unless I honestly start key spamming (rapid pressing of the same key in succession.) Typing is a little lack luster as it's more of a chore to type because they are so stiff

Cherry Reds:
Gaming not quiet as good as the blacks, but they still work well. Typing is better, but if I really get into gaming, I can bottom out the keyswhen I start using multi-key combos

Browns/Blues: To light and I don't like the clicks.

Simplified Black Alps:
They were nice, but my M1's lack of full NKRO has caused me some issues in the first place. And I don't like the click they make either.

In the end, I'm a fan of my blacks, but I would like to find something that's just inbetween the blacks & the reds.


So it sounds like you want to stick to linear switches then. You're going to need something a bit obscure.

There are four linear Alps switches - Greens, Yellows, Darker Yellows, and Reds. But the Reds are even lighter than the Cherry ones, so we'll skip those.

Greens: Start at 25g, end at 55g. Travel depth is 3.5mm
Yellows: Start at 30g, end at 60g. Travel depth is 4.0mm
Dark Yellows: Start at 25g, end at 70g. Travel depth is 4.0mm

I think Yellows will fit you best, but it's up to you.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PaulHDietz*


Hello Keyboard Afficionados!

I'm the researcher behind the new anti-ghosting feature in Microsoft's SideWinder X4 keyboard. I just wanted to let you know that we have a new site up that discusses the ghosting issue, and it includes a simple browser-based, on-screen keyboard so you can quickly get an idea of what ghosting issues you have with your own keyboard. The front page is here:

http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscie...iGhosting.mspx

As a caveat, I should point out that a browser-based keyboard tester is limited by what keystrokes get passed up from the system through the browser. So it won't tell you everything. But it should give you a feel for the capabilities of your keyboard.

The site also includes a detailed description of what the limitations of the X4 are with respect to simultaneous key presses. I'm very pleased that we are able to provide this sort of information. It should help clear up some confusion about what is and is not possible.

By the way, I know some of you will take issue with the definition of anti-ghosting as pressed keys that fail to function correctly. I know this is not what may have been originally meant, but it is how it is currently used by the industry.

Thanks!


Wow, this thread is that noticeable?

I do appreciate that the meaning of words can change over time, especially in a fast moving industry. And to be fair, a major reason membrane keyboards don't have NKRO is because keys are blocked to _prevent_ ghosting, among other reasons. So anti-ghosting is a reasonable name for the technology, though I'd prefer "expanded rollover" or some such.

I also like the keyboard test thing on there. Essentially the same functionality as KeyboardTest without having to deal with a trial period or buying it.

What would be really helpful to consumers, however, is a map of some sort showing what keys on the Sidewinder x4 can be pressed at once. Unfortunately this is a very complicated chunk of information and probably hard to represent two dimensionally. So maybe list common key combinations that the standard IBM matrix is incapable of, and compare them to the combinations the x4 can do.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PaulHDietz*


Hello Keyboard Afficionados!

I'm the researcher behind the new anti-ghosting feature in Microsoft's SideWinder X4 keyboard. I just wanted to let you know that we have a new site up that discusses the ghosting issue, and it includes a simple browser-based, on-screen keyboard so you can quickly get an idea of what ghosting issues you have with your own keyboard. The front page is here:

http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscie...iGhosting.mspx

As a caveat, I should point out that a browser-based keyboard tester is limited by what keystrokes get passed up from the system through the browser. So it won't tell you everything. But it should give you a feel for the capabilities of your keyboard.

The site also includes a detailed description of what the limitations of the X4 are with respect to simultaneous key presses. I'm very pleased that we are able to provide this sort of information. It should help clear up some confusion about what is and is not possible.

By the way, I know some of you will take issue with the definition of anti-ghosting as pressed keys that fail to function correctly. I know this is not what may have been originally meant, but it is how it is currently used by the industry.

Thanks!


Thanks, that's a great reference for the x4's capabilities. Though most of us here aren't actually limited by our current keyboards. Using PS/2 and having diodes in series with each keyswitch makes things pretty worry free.

I've got one question though: How does the keyboard report more than the standard 6 alphanumeric + 4 modifier keys over USB? I'm very curious as to the specifics of how the limitation was avoided.


----------



## TwoCables

I don't see how the term "Anti-Ghosting" can refer to allowing multiple, simultaneous keystrokes so that they can all register at the same time (for the sake of gaming, of course). I mean, how does the term "ghosting" even fit in? What's the term referring to?

This is why the term "Ghosting" refers to when you press 2 or more keys, and then another character appears that you did not press (or even _accidentally_ press). It's just a ghost that appears out of nowhere - get it?

Yeah, I know I can't single-handedly correct it all, but it's rather annoying.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I don't see how the term "Anti-Ghosting" can refer to allowing multiple, simultaneous keystrokes so that they can all register at the same time (for the sake of gaming, of course). I mean, how does the term "ghosting" fit in? What's the term referring to?

This is why the term "Ghosting" refers to when you press 2 or more keys, and then another character appears that you did not press (or even _accidentally_ press). It's just a ghost that appears out of nowhere - get it?

Yeah, I know I can't single-handedly correct it all, but it's rather annoying.

By my understanding, the way the traces on a membrane keyboard are set up certain key combinations can make it appear that an additional key has been pressed. Thus ghosting. To compensate for that, manufacturers modify the controller to block the keys that "appear" when used with other key combinations, to prevent ghosting. The downside is that if you _want_ to press said key, but it's blocked to prevent ghosting, then you're out of luck.

By _preventing_ or at least reducing ghosting on the membrane itself, or somehow telling a normal keystroke from a ghost, a manufacturer can unblock keys and allow them to be registered, without picking up ghosted keys. Thus anti-ghosting means more keys can be unblocked, leading to greater rollover.

However, I can see why they did not use the term rollover, because rollover is dependent on the _minimum_ number of keys that can register, and if the antighosting tech is only applied to one section of a keyboard then other parts may still be blocked. Thus the rollover hasn't been increased, just the maximum.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Also, we may wish to consider emailing this guy in case he never comes back to read any responses.


----------



## Tator Tot

@*PaulHDietz

You are referring NKRO not Ghosting. That's use of an improper term. That's like when people say Mac's are not PC's (Personal Computers.)

* You're going to sound up uneducated to your market. While gamers in the past may have been easier to fool, and computer users easier to get things by on, that's not the case.
Many users are crossing over into the enthusiast world and actually buying things based on information gathered.

I know just in the last year, without I even having to mention things, many people come into the local computer shop and ask for Mechanical keyboards and Item's that would not have normally been asked for or mentioned before.

I'm not trying to be insulting, on the flipside, I'm a Business Administration & Marketing major. I have a fairly good understanding of how these things work. And Wording in your adverts is very important.

I would hate to see (as I've already witnessed similar circumstances) a review site or personal blog give your boards bad remarks just because you marketed it wrong.

That will happen, more so with the way keyboards are right now. Like Power supplies, the few sites that do know what they are talking about and have a more "proper" (even though it's much harder to test a keyboard comparatively to a Power Supply in some regards) testing conditions and methods. And will most likely harp on your board just for the inaccurate wording.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
So it sounds like you want to stick to linear switches then. You're going to need something a bit obscure.

There are four linear Alps switches - Greens, Yellows, Darker Yellows, and Reds. But the Reds are even lighter than the Cherry ones, so we'll skip those.

Greens: Start at 25g, end at 55g. Travel depth is 3.5mm
Yellows: Start at 30g, end at 60g. Travel depth is 4.0mm
Dark Yellows: Start at 25g, end at 70g. Travel depth is 4.0mm

I think Yellows will fit you best, but it's up to you.

I'm not aware of any boards that use Yellow Alps.

Do you have any in mind? Perhaps with just the basic layout like my Filco's or ABS M1?
It can have extra buttons as well, but I would prefer to stick to that standard layout.

Though, I'm considering getting a board with Cherry MX Browns that's a natural as well, if you have any in mind that would be nice.

Again, Danke for helping me with boards in the past and now Manyak.


----------



## Crazy9000

What's the big deal, it seems the industry is adopting the term ghosting, does it really matter what term they use? I can't remember the last time I saw a board that actually ghosted anyways.

Out of curiosity, how does the sidewinder x4 get past the limitation of 6+4 key-presses on USB?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I'm not aware of any boards that use Yellow Alps.

Do you have any in mind? Perhaps with just the basic layout like my Filco's or ABS M1?
It can have extra buttons as well, but I would prefer to stick to that standard layout.

Though, I'm considering getting a board with Cherry MX Browns that's a natural as well, if you have any in mind that would be nice.

Again, Danke for helping me with boards in the past and now Manyak.









There are only two keyboards I know of with them - the Zenith ZKB-2, and the keyboard that came with the NEC PC98 (an original IBM PC clone). Either way you're going to have to search ebay for them.

And by natural I take it you mean ergonomic. With Cherry Browns, there's the Kinesis Evolution, Kinesis Advantage, all Maltron keyboards, and the Cherry MX-5000.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
What's the big deal, it seems the industry is adopting the term ghosting, does it really matter what term they use? I can't remember the last time I saw a board that actually ghosted anyways.

Out of curiosity, how does the sidewinder x4 get past the limitation of 6+4 key-presses on USB?

Tator Tot and I explained why it matters to use terms correctly; especially when you're as big as Microsoft is. I guess they don't mind allowing people to be ignorant.

If I were to start my own company, I would make DAMN sure that my customers could use my advertisements and Product Pages to simultaneously be educated while they shop. I would want my customers to see me as a company who doesn't lie (or hide). I would want my customers to trust me. I would want my customers to feel more comfortable shopping from me than from other companies because I know what I'm talking about. And we all know what it feels like to buy from a store or a company who knows what they're talking about vs. one that doesn't.

I understand how weak of an argument this is, but I'm really tired and I'm not able to properly convey the importance.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Tator Tot and I explained why it matters to use terms correctly; especially when you're as big as Microsoft is.

You're stating your opinion as fact, just the thing you were so pissed about someone else doing the other day.

If the industry adopts the term ghosting to mean what used to be referred to as NKRO, then it will just be called ghosting in the future. I don't see anything wrong with it at all. Also, ghosting seems like a term that's easier to understand for "average joe gamer."


----------



## PaulHDietz

Yes, I'm still here.

I am personally sympathetic to the discussion of terminology, but you have to realize that Microsoft would get a lot of criticism if we didn't use terminology in the same way as the rest of the industry. By providing explicit information about SideWinder X4's capabilities, I think we are taking a huge step forward in eliminating confusion, whatever the terminology.

In the research community, I am best known for DiamondTouch, the first large scale, multi-user touch screen. So what we did is take some of the concepts of multitouch, and apply them to keyboard matrices. For the EE's in the crowd, X4 is a resistive multitouch system. It's very similar to capacitive multitouch, except that instead of measuring the capacitance from row to column, it measures the resistance. It is fairly straightforward to do this in a way that lets you measure each site fairly independently. The basic technique is described in here:

http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscie...eKeyboard.mspx

While this technique theoretically allows the system to see any number of simultaneous key presses, internal processing and the USB interface set some practical limits. We play some tricks with the USB protocol to send extra data in fairly elegant way.

Anyhow, I hope that helps. It's not often that we see real advances in underlying keyboard technology, and I appreciate the opportunity to get the word out!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Tator Tot and I explained why it matters to use terms correctly; especially when you're as big as Microsoft is. I guess they don't mind allowing people to be ignorant.

If I were to start my own company, I would make DAMN sure that my customers could use my advertisements and Product Pages to simultaneously be educated while they shop. I would want my customers to see me as a company who doesn't lie (or hide). I would want my customers to trust me. I would want my customers to feel more comfortable shopping from me than from other companies because I know what I'm talking about. And we all know what it feels like to buy from a store or a company who knows what they're talking about vs. one that doesn't.

I understand how weak of an argument this is, but I'm really tired and I'm not able to properly convey the importance.


It's counter productive for a company, or any person to use their own resources and time to try and change a terminology when there's no investment return for it. I understand your original posts, but it's something I don't think will ever happen unless it was a personal issue on part of Microsoft to change the way the mass thought of ghosting, than for profit and more.

Personally I'm just glad that researchers have a connection with consumers and enthusiasts to make products better. However, they can also be the consultant types that don't fix the problem, but make a lot of money in prolonging the problem.

BTW PaulH, do you mind sharing with us which part of WA you're in?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


You're stating your opinion as fact, just the thing you were so pissed about someone else doing the other day.

If the industry adopts the term ghosting to mean what used to be referred to as NKRO, then it will just be called ghosting in the future. I don't see anything wrong with it at all. Also, ghosting seems like a term that's easier to understand for "average joe gamer."


What she was doing is different from what I'm doing. I'm trying to explain something (and failing at it) that is not my opinion. It's fact, even though I'm lacing it with some of my opinions on the matter (*edit: *failed sentence... I'm sorry). Actually, I'm sharing my feelings on the facts just because I'm a human being.

Anyway, here's my response to what you said:

But how can the term "Anti-Ghosting" fit? As we know, the reason the term became "Ghosting" is because of the extra "ghost" character that appears even though no extra key was accidentally pressed. But with the way they're using it now, it would take quite a creative person to say "this is why it's called Anti-Ghosting......." when it is actually N-Key Rollover. I'd love to see them try and explain why their technology that allows for a large number of simultaneous key presses to register is called "Anti-Ghosting". The term just doesn't fit.

This kind of marketing assumes that the customer is stupid. But that's not true because I'm really stupid, but yet I fully understood it when this Mechanical Keyboard Guide corrected me a few weeks ago. All it took was for me to read about 2 sentences, and then I understood the difference. I was then also able to explain it to others and help them understand. It's a simple concept that these companies think is too difficult for their customers to grasp, so they just continue using "Anti-Ghosting" since they don't want to have to educate their customers.

This new Sidewinder keyboard is calling it Anti-Ghosting when they're not talking about ghost characters appearing out of nowhere when you didn't intend to type that character (or even accidentally press that key). They're talking about N-Key Rollover.

I remember looking at a mechanical keyboard manufacturer's website somewhere that boldly declared that it's not Anti-Ghosting or Ghosting, but N-Key Rollover. I wish Microsoft or Razer and the like had the balls to do that.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PaulHDietz*


Yes, I'm still here.

I am personally sympathetic to the discussion of terminology, but you have to realize that Microsoft would get a lot of criticism if we didn't use terminology in the same way as the rest of the industry. By providing explicit information about SideWinder X4's capabilities, I think we are taking a huge step forward in eliminating confusion, whatever the terminology.


I think that an even better way to eliminate confusion is to briefly state things like "this is what is commonly - and mistakenly - referred to as Anti-Ghosting" while explaining that the keyboard has improved N-Key Rollover. It enables the consumer's light-bulb to turn on and then say "Oh, I get it now!"

Is it really that difficult to use the Product Page to simultaneously teach the customer that this is actually called N-Key Rollover and not Anti-Ghosting? I know that I would feel *much* better about buying from a company who shows that they know what they're talking about than a company who decides to be a follower instead. It would make me feel very confident about my purchase because I'd have the confidence in knowing that my keyboard was built by people who know what they're talking about (by experts).

Forgive me for causing confusion (if any).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PaulHDietz*


In the research community, I am best known for DiamondTouch, the first large scale, multi-user touch screen. So what we did is take some of the concepts of multitouch, and apply them to keyboard matrices. For the EE's in the crowd, X4 is a resistive multitouch system. It's very similar to capacitive multitouch, except that instead of measuring the capacitance from row to column, it measures the resistance. It is fairly straightforward to do this in a way that lets you measure each site fairly independently. The basic technique is described in here:

http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscie...eKeyboard.mspx

While this technique theoretically allows the system to see any number of simultaneous key presses, internal processing and the USB interface set some practical limits. We play some tricks with the USB protocol to send extra data in fairly elegant way.

Anyhow, I hope that helps. It's not often that we see real advances in underlying keyboard technology, and I appreciate the opportunity to get the word out!


Simultaneous key presses registering? That's N-Key Rollover. Anti-Ghosting is something entirely different.

When somebody asks why this simultaneous key pressing stuff is called "Anti-Ghosting", or "Ghosting", then what is the explanation going to be? To me, "N-Key _Rollover_" makes perfect sense. If you want to avoid confusion, then why use terms that technically don't make sense?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PaulHDietz*


While this technique theoretically allows the system to see any number of simultaneous key presses, internal processing and the USB interface set some practical limits. We play some tricks with the USB protocol to send extra data in fairly elegant way.


Interesting. So you're not doing anything to change the USB keyboard protocol or anything, so the board will still function in BIOS or without a driver. I'm assuming that there's some neat work going on behind the scenes with the controller and driver. I'll hazard a guess that the anti-ghosting does _not_ work without a driver, ie. in BIOS or before a driver is installed/loaded. You don't need those capabilities then anyway.

I understand if some of this info is confidential, but I'm curious:
Does the keyboard send additional information per packet, or does it send additional packets following the first one to account for the additional keypresses? Any more information would be fascinating, but again I respect that some of this may be stuff you don't want leaking to competitors.

Also, the pressure touch system... I think I see what you did. The pressure touch system allowed voltage to vary continuously, rather than the standard on/off system. That way pressing harder caused a higher voltage (or capacitance.... not an EE







) to reach the controller, which detects it and outputs the correct information on how hard the key is pressed, which can be picked up by a program, yadda yadda. In the case of the X4 I'm guessing you put that varying voltage concept to a different use: determining which keys were actually pressed, and which are an artifact of the circuit layout. The keyboard's controller can thus figure out which keys the user meant to send, and which were a result of ghosting (the original definition). Probably ghosted keys have a higher/lower voltage... Say each keypress gives X voltage, so three keys would give 3X while two keys and a ghost would give 2X. The controller can see the difference there and figure out what the user actually intended to send. There's probably more to it, and there's obviously the usual amount of engineering detail work, but I'm guessing that's the general concept.

But it isn't perfect, right? There's uncertainty involved. As the number of keys pressed increases the voltage variability probably increases as well. Say that twenty six keys are pressed... Multiple circuits, so let's say one line has 10X volts. Maybe the sensor or the controller can't tell which keypresses are real and which are ghosts. The margin of error increases. And past a certain point you have to start blocking keys again. Which is why you still can't claim NKRO.

Is that about right?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Interesting. So you're not doing anything to change the USB keyboard protocol or anything, so the board will still function in BIOS or without a driver. I'm assuming that there's some neat work going on behind the scenes with the controller and driver. I'll hazard a guess that the anti-ghosting does _not_ work without a driver, ie. in BIOS or before a driver is installed/loaded. You don't need those capabilities then anyway.

I understand if some of this info is confidential, but I'm curious:
Does the keyboard send additional information per packet, or does it send additional packets following the first one to account for the additional keypresses? Any more information would be fascinating, but again I respect that some of this may be stuff you don't want leaking to competitors.

Also, the pressure touch system... I think I see what you did. The pressure touch system allowed voltage to vary continuously, rather than the standard on/off system. That way pressing harder caused a higher voltage (or capacitance.... not an EE







) to reach the controller, which detects it and outputs the correct information on how hard the key is pressed, which can be picked up by a program, yadda yadda. In the case of the X4 I'm guessing you put that varying voltage concept to a different use: determining which keys were actually pressed, and which are an artifact of the circuit layout. The keyboard's controller can thus figure out which keys the user meant to send, and which were a result of ghosting (the original definition).

But it isn't perfect, right? There's uncertainty involved. As the number of keys pressed increases the voltage variability probably increases as well. The margin of error increases. And past a certain point you have to start blocking keys again. Which is why you still can't claim NKRO.

Is that about right?


I'd buy that explanation if it is actually technically Anti-Ghosting in order to improve upon the N-Key Rollover.


----------



## Crazy9000

I think the pressure sensitive keys could be a very nice feature. Shame that the games would probably need to be coded to recognize it though.

I hold the world record in thps3, and use the keyboard to play. If the sidewinder keyboard was able to be recognized as a gamepad so that the game would recognize the varied force (I.E register the arrows like the joysticks), I would be very interested to see how the ability to vary the force would affect gameplay.

I might get the sidewinder anyways just to see if I can finally have a USB keyboard that's usable, seeing I have to press more then 6 keys at times. I'm curious how the keys will register after the 6th; on the das keyboard, it just pulsed the keys, which may be fine for typing, but doesn't work at all in a game that you have to hold the key down, not just press it. It sounds like the microsoft board is using a completely different method though.


----------



## clownfart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PaulHDietz*


Hello Keyboard Afficionados!

I'm the researcher behind the new anti-ghosting feature in Microsoft's SideWinder X4 keyboard. I just wanted to let you know that we have a new site up that discusses the ghosting issue, and it includes a simple browser-based, on-screen keyboard so you can quickly get an idea of what ghosting issues you have with your own keyboard. The front page is here:

http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscie...iGhosting.mspx

As a caveat, I should point out that a browser-based keyboard tester is limited by what keystrokes get passed up from the system through the browser. So it won't tell you everything. But it should give you a feel for the capabilities of your keyboard.

The site also includes a detailed description of what the limitations of the X4 are with respect to simultaneous key presses. I'm very pleased that we are able to provide this sort of information. It should help clear up some confusion about what is and is not possible.

By the way, I know some of you will take issue with the definition of anti-ghosting as pressed keys that fail to function correctly. I know this is not what may have been originally meant, but it is how it is currently used by the industry.

Thanks!


Sorry what? I think you came to the wrong thread, sir. This is for mechanical keyboards.

Pressing this many keys at once is not as easy as it seems. I managed to do it, and press print screen.


----------



## TwoCables

See that description of Ghosting? *It is incorrect!* It's talking about N-Key Rollover, not Ghosting!


----------



## soloz2

so something odd happened. I booted to my Vista partition the other day and for some reason it won't allow me to log in using my FILCO. I haven't unboxed my Eclipse II yet, but it didn't want to work


----------



## v193r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clownfart*


Sorry what? I think you came to the wrong thread, sir. This is for mechanical keyboards.

Pressing this many keys at once is not as easy as it seems. I managed to do it, and press print screen.










do u like ur abs m1 better or ur filco browns?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clownfart*


Sorry what? I think you came to the wrong thread, sir. This is for mechanical keyboards.

Pressing this many keys at once is not as easy as it seems. I managed to do it, and press print screen.










I'm guessing you're on your Filco. On mechanical keyboards it's easy since you just need to dedicate a a diode to each key. Plus you're using PS/2.

Membrane keyboards are a completely different technology and are _very_ difficult to make NKRO, without dedicating a circuit to each key which would be prohibitively costly. Plus it's USB, which normally has a limit of 6+4 keys.


----------



## TwoCables

http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscie...Explained.mspx

This whole pages needs to be changed. This isn't Ghosting!! It's N-Key Rollover! Ghosting is when you press like 2 keys simultaneously and then get a 3rd character that you did not press at all (not even accidentally).

The description of why it's called "Ghosting" is stupid and it's made up. Sigh. Yes, I am bothered.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscie...Explained.mspx

This whole pages needs to be changed. This isn't Ghosting!! It's N-Key Rollover! Ghosting is when you press like 2 keys simultaneously and then get a 3rd character that you did not press at all (not even accidentally).


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*












Yeah, I know. But I don't care. I feel like voicing my opinion since this Microsoft guy is here. Perhaps I will help them decide to be a leader instead of a follower in this respect.

Now people will say "No, you're wrong because Microsoft said that it's called Ghosting/Anti-Ghosting". Thanks, Microsoft.


----------



## clownfart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


do u like ur abs m1 better or ur filco browns?


I like the Cherry switches a lot more.


----------



## Prosiddon

I just bought my second mechanical keyboard, a unicomp spacesaver and I swapped out all the keycaps with blank black ones and I have to say this is great. The keys even feel light since I've been using a dell at101w for the past 6 months.


----------



## clownfart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Prosiddon*


I just bought my second mechanical keyboard, a unicomp spacesaver and I swapped out all the keycaps with blank black ones and I have to say this is great. The keys even feel light since I've been using a dell at101w for the past 6 months.


Where did you get the keycaps for the Unicomp? I'm thinking about getting one, and I wouldn't mind getting a set of blank keycaps along with it.


----------



## Prosiddon

In the checkout comments for the keyboard I just asked them to add a bag of blank black keys for $20. I got the whole idea from this geekhack article if you want to check it out http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:5649


----------



## PaulHDietz

First, let me say that I didn't work on the USB interface, but I can say that the anti-ghosting feature does not depend on a special driver. Just for the fun of it, I've tried it on some alternative operating systems, and enjoyed pressing many keys and watching them work. Of course, not every feature is going to be supported on every OS. And I don't think anything other than Windows is officially supported, so your experiences may be different.

Unfortunately, your description of how it all works isn't quite right. The problem is that you have to think about both voltage and current. I know the difference can be confusing, but it's kind of like the difference between water pressure and water flow. When measuring a key state, all rows and columns are held at about the same voltage, EXCEPT one column, which is held at a different, but constant voltage. What is measured is the resulting current in the row of the key of interest. To first order, it is the only thing the varies significantly. This is a fundamental difference with this technique. Most keyboards measure voltage changes to detect a key press. This one measures current. Because there is virtually no voltage difference across any of the other switches that connect to this row, they can not contribute significant current no matter what the switch states are. Thus, you can measure each switch independently. This is really just a simple threshold measurement.

There are error terms which can accumulate if you consider second order non-idealities. But to first order, there is no accumulation of error. And as a practical matter, it's not an issue for our keyboard.

I've been thinking of finding an artist to draw up the water analogy to help people understand. It is kind of tricky. Anyhow, I hope this helps...

--- paul

P.S. Just to be clear - the X4 is not pressure sensitive. I refered to the paper because the measurement technique is similar...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Interesting. So you're not doing anything to change the USB keyboard protocol or anything, so the board will still function in BIOS or without a driver. I'm assuming that there's some neat work going on behind the scenes with the controller and driver. I'll hazard a guess that the anti-ghosting does _not_ work without a driver, ie. in BIOS or before a driver is installed/loaded. You don't need those capabilities then anyway.

I understand if some of this info is confidential, but I'm curious:
Does the keyboard send additional information per packet, or does it send additional packets following the first one to account for the additional keypresses? Any more information would be fascinating, but again I respect that some of this may be stuff you don't want leaking to competitors.

Also, the pressure touch system... I think I see what you did. The pressure touch system allowed voltage to vary continuously, rather than the standard on/off system. That way pressing harder caused a higher voltage (or capacitance.... not an EE







) to reach the controller, which detects it and outputs the correct information on how hard the key is pressed, which can be picked up by a program, yadda yadda. In the case of the X4 I'm guessing you put that varying voltage concept to a different use: determining which keys were actually pressed, and which are an artifact of the circuit layout. The keyboard's controller can thus figure out which keys the user meant to send, and which were a result of ghosting (the original definition). Probably ghosted keys have a higher/lower voltage... Say each keypress gives X voltage, so three keys would give 3X while two keys and a ghost would give 2X. The controller can see the difference there and figure out what the user actually intended to send. There's probably more to it, and there's obviously the usual amount of engineering detail work, but I'm guessing that's the general concept.

But it isn't perfect, right? There's uncertainty involved. As the number of keys pressed increases the voltage variability probably increases as well. Say that twenty six keys are pressed... Multiple circuits, so let's say one line has 10X volts. Maybe the sensor or the controller can't tell which keypresses are real and which are ghosts. The margin of error increases. And past a certain point you have to start blocking keys again. Which is why you still can't claim NKRO.

Is that about right?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I'm a power supply geek, so I understand the difference between voltage and current. P=VI and such. So you're saying that in a standard membrane keyboard voltage is the variable, while in the X4 it's current?

Maybe a diagram or example showing a cluster of keys, and how current/voltage change with given keybpresses.

Interesting that it doesn't require a driver, though. And non-pulsed? Or... Ah, maybe it is "pulsed" but...

Keys pressed: QWEASDZXC

Standard "pulse" pattern, as used on the Das Professional S:

P1: QWEASD
P2: ZXC
P3: QWEASD
P4: ZXC

etc, alternating.

But perhaps with the X4 it's more like

P1: QWEASD
P2: WEASDZ
P3: EASDZX
P4: ASDZXC

So that gets around the issue the Das has, where a keystroke registers intermittently. Instead a key will be registering for the vast majority of the time it is pressed, and only "off" for a fraction of that time. Of course I'm probably wrong, or there's more to it. Because that runs into the issue of if you have 13+ keys then the pulse problem will be exactly the same as if you were pressing 7+ keys on the Das. The amount of time a given key spends not registering for any given "n" keys increases as n does.

I'm sure there's a *lot* that went into this, and I doubt that the ideas I'm throwing out are even as sophisticated than what was heard in the initial brainstorming sessions.

But it is a neat technology. I'm just limited by my understanding of keyboards and of EE in general.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


There are only two keyboards I know of with them - the Zenith ZKB-2, and the keyboard that came with the NEC PC98 (an original IBM PC clone). Either way you're going to have to search ebay for them.

And by natural I take it you mean ergonomic. With Cherry Browns, there's the Kinesis Evolution, Kinesis Advantage, all Maltron keyboards, and the Cherry MX-5000.


Oe gawd... mai feengurz.

All those boards look horrid to type on. I was trying to find something a bit more like the Logitech Wave series, with that raised middle and sweeping curve.

I like that feel when my wrists rest in that position.

As for the Yellow Alps boards.... those are not only the most horrid things I've ever had the displeasure to look at, I can only find them for $80 (Zenith board) with missing keyes







and $200 for the NEC Board with discoloration.

So those look like a no go right now.









Can I just get a large set of those switches and use a current board with Alps to and replace the switches in them?


----------



## PaulHDietz

Yes, current is the variable of interest. Imagine you have a column wire and a row wire connected by a resistor. Assume the row is at ground, and the column is at 5V. Current will flow from the 5V column to the 0V row. (I = V/R to be specific.) Now imagine there are other columns, all at ground, which connect to the row via resistors. Because these columns are at 0V and the row is also at 0V, no current flows from them into the row. It doesn't matter how big the resistors are, or how many there are. If there is no voltage across them, they don't add any current into the row.

So that's how you measure only the resistor connecting that driven column to the row you are measuring...

Hope that helps explain...

I'm not familar with the Das keyboard, so I can't really comment on that...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I'm a power supply geek, so I understand the difference between voltage and current. P=VI and such. So you're saying that in a standard membrane keyboard voltage is the variable, while in the X4 it's current?

Maybe a diagram or example showing a cluster of keys, and how current/voltage change with given keybpresses.

Interesting that it doesn't require a driver, though. And non-pulsed? Or... Ah, maybe it is "pulsed" but...

Keys pressed: QWEASDZXC

Standard "pulse" pattern, as used on the Das Professional S:

P1: QWEASD
P2: ZXC
P3: QWEASD
P4: ZXC

etc, alternating.

But perhaps with the X4 it's more like

P1: QWEASD
P2: WEASDZ
P3: EASDZX
P4: ASDZXC

So that gets around the issue the Das has, where a keystroke registers intermittently. Instead a key will be registering for the vast majority of the time it is pressed, and only "off" for a fraction of that time. Of course I'm probably wrong, or there's more to it. Because that runs into the issue of if you have 13+ keys then the pulse problem will be exactly the same as if you were pressing 7+ keys on the Das. The amount of time a given key spends not registering for any given "n" keys increases as n does.

I'm sure there's a *lot* that went into this, and I doubt that the ideas I'm throwing out are even as sophisticated than what was heard in the initial brainstorming sessions.

But it is a neat technology. I'm just limited by my understanding of keyboards and of EE in general.


----------



## Tator Tot

*@PaulHDietz*

You said other folks in the Keyboard industry are using the same definition for Ghosting that you are, who would this be precisely?
From what I have read, every Mechanical Keyboard maker that discusses Ghosting & NKRO uses the same definitions in this thread.


----------



## clownfart

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
*@PaulHDietz*

You said other folks in the Keyboard industry are using the same definition for Ghosting that you are, who would this be precisely?
From what I have read, every Mechanical Keyboard maker that discusses Ghosting & NKRO uses the same definitions in this thread.

The same ones that use dpi instead of cpi.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clownfart* 
The same ones that use dpi instead of cpi.

That'd be most companies though.

Pixxo & Steelseries mice are the only ones I remember off the top of my head that used CPI.

Though, I think the old Creative F4TAL1TY Mouse used CPI as well.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PaulHDietz* 
----snip----

Let me try and explain in a different way too.

Say you have this simple matrix in a standard switch based keyboard:








If you press A, B, and D, while the keyboard is scanning Column 1, it will think that C was pressed as well because both Row 1 and Row 2 will have a voltage going across them.

Now, if you add resistors in series to each switch, you get two sources of info: the row that "lights up", plus the current going across it. When scanning Column 1, the controller will still "see" that there is a current on Row 2 even though the key hasn't been pressed. However, because the current has to go through 3 resistors instead of just 1 (the resistor for A, B, and D), the current drop is much larger than if the letter C _had_ actually been pressed. Therefore it is ignored.

At least that's how I always understood it









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Oe gawd... mai feengurz.

All those boards look horrid to type on. I was trying to find something a bit more like the Logitech Wave series, with that raised middle and sweeping curve.

I like that feel when my wrists rest in that position.

As for the Yellow Alps boards.... those are not only the most horrid things I've ever had the displeasure to look at, I can only find them for $80 (Zenith board) with missing keyes







and $200 for the NEC Board with discoloration.

So those look like a no go right now.









Can I just get a large set of those switches and use a current board with Alps to and replace the switches in them?

You're right, they look absolutely horrible (though you shouldn't judge what your experience will be just by looks!). But if you like the switches, they are still Alps switches and therefore they will fit in any Alps board. A simple switch swap with your ABS M1 will give you what you're looking for.

You can try the Green ones really, really cheap if you want to do that instead. Just get a Dell AT101 and remove the tactile leaf in one of the switches. That's what a Green Alps feels like.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
You're right, they look absolutely horrible (though you shouldn't judge what your experience will be just by looks!). But if you like the switches, they are still Alps switches and therefore they will fit in any Alps board. A simple switch swap with your ABS M1 will give you what you're looking for.

You can try the Green ones really, really cheap if you want to do that instead. Just get a Dell AT101 and remove the tactile leaf in one of the switches. That's what a Green Alps feels like.

I know not to judge by looks. But they are still damned ugly. I'd really have to try out any of those Ergonomic boards before using them. The layout just kills me to imagine it as usable.

I might have to go looking for Yellow Alps then. Or, get a Dell AT101 and try the mod (considering they're only $20 it's not so bad.)

But I like the idea of a switch swap (say that 10x fast







) instead.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PaulHDietz* 
Yes, current is the variable of interest. Imagine you have a column wire and a row wire connected by a resistor. Assume the row is at ground, and the column is at 5V. Current will flow from the 5V column to the 0V row. (I = V/R to be specific.) Now imagine there are other columns, all at ground, which connect to the row via resistors. Because these columns are at 0V and the row is also at 0V, no current flows from them into the row. It doesn't matter how big the resistors are, or how many there are. If there is no voltage across them, they don't add any current into the row.

So that's how you measure only the resistor connecting that driven column to the row you are measuring...

Hope that helps explain...

I'm not familar with the Das keyboard, so I can't really comment on that...

I'm not quite sure.

Clarify one thing. If you have a 1A @5V meeting a 5ohm resistor, does that make it 1A at 0V?

From what I can see what you're describing differs from standard keyboards in only two ways: that you are measuring current instead of voltage, and the addition of a resistor after the contact pad.


----------



## lmnop

Manyak ever seen a steelseries 7g with Alps strongman? I have. i'm trying to find the page in the mechanical keyboard guide it was maybe a month ago someone reviewed it and took pictures. the Print Screen used a Alps Strongman, i'm guessing the Scroll Lock and Pause Break did as well.

Christine


----------



## lmnop

Found it. Izvire reviewed it. http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmurobbs.plaza.fi% 2Fkayttajien-tuotetestit%2F638641-steelseries-7g.html&sl=fi&tl=en` probably marketing photos.

Christine


----------



## PaulHDietz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I'm not quite sure.

Clarify one thing. If you have a 1A @5V meeting a 5ohm resistor, does that make it 1A at 0V?

From what I can see what you're describing differs from standard keyboards in only two ways: that you are measuring current instead of voltage, and the addition of a resistor after the contact pad.

A 5 Ohm resistor with 1A going through it drops 5V. So the voltage on one end of the resistor will be 5 volts lower than the other end. It also gets pretty hot because you are dropping 5 Watts!









You are basically correct that the main difference between X4 and standard keyboards is that there is a resistor in series with each switch, and there is a circuit on each row to see if the current exceeded some threshold. This is why we can finally make a keyboard which allows lots of simultaneous key presses for a very reasonable price.

Of course, there are lots of other details, like figuring out how to send all the extra data...


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I know not to judge by looks. But they are still damned ugly. I'd really have to try out any of those Ergonomic boards before using them. The layout just kills me to imagine it as usable.

I might have to go looking for Yellow Alps then. Or, get a Dell AT101 and try the mod (considering they're only $20 it's not so bad.)

But I like the idea of a switch swap (say that 10x fast







) instead.

I wonder if there is a stiffer spring that would fit in the black alps switch. That would seem to be the simplest solution.


----------



## PaulHDietz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Let me try and explain in a different way too.

Say you have this simple matrix in a standard switch based keyboard:








If you press A, B, and D, while the keyboard is scanning Column 1, it will think that C was pressed as well because both Row 1 and Row 2 will have a voltage going across them.

Now, if you add resistors in series to each switch, you get two sources of info: the row that "lights up", plus the current going across it. When scanning Column 1, the controller will still "see" that there is a current on Row 2 even though the key hasn't been pressed. However, because the current has to go through 3 resistors instead of just 1 (the resistor for A, B, and D), the current drop is much larger than if the letter C _had_ actually been pressed. Therefore it is ignored.

At least that's how I always understood it









This isn't how X4 works, and I don't know of any keyboard that does it this way. The cool thing about the technique used in X4 is that setting all the voltages equal (except the one column) effectively prevents the current from coming from any place other than the one you are measuring.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Found it. Izvire reviewed it. http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmurobbs.plaza.fi% 2Fkayttajien-tuotetestit%2F638641-steelseries-7g.html&sl=fi&tl=en` probably marketing photos.

Christine

Well I'll be damned. Must be a pre-production model or something.


----------



## lmnop

this comment is interesting not sure if it relates to the steelseries 7g or not.

Quote:

@Ed: It was marketed as a 'left handed keyboard' without a brand attached. It was made by Strong Man who apparently went out of business so they disappeared from most of the shops. I notice a couple of places are expecting new stocks but with Cherry MX switches this time instead of the Strongman copies of the Alps design mine has so I assume they're now being manufactured by someone else. There's also a cheaper one using what looks like scissor switches (laptop keys) from Evoluent under the name of 'mouse friendly keyboard' but that unfortunately uses a mangled and squashed together layout.
http://www.trustedreviews.com/periph...board/comments

also according to another comment from the same source the steelseries 7g is manufactured by Datacomp not Costar.

Quote:

As it's Taiwanese (the 7G is built by Datacomp AFAIK) I suspect it's hardware which means you can't even rebind it to function as a windows key (which wouldn't be ideal as it's not portable, but it'd be something at least).
the source below is a Computex 2009 Floor Plan that list the manufacturer and what products they showcased at the event.

Quote:

i-rocks - I-ROCKS (official website): B1234
Products: KR-6220G, KR-6523, KR-6820E, KR-6230

Gigabyte - Gigabyte Technology (official website): D002
Product: GK-K8000

COSTAR - Li-Po Electronics (official website): G619
Product: Filco Cable Edition

*DATACOMP - Mingzhe (official website): C838
Products: Jaki, SteelSeries 7G, Filco Bluetooth*
http://translate.google.ca/translate...%3Den%26sa%3DN

and yes you`re reading that right there was a Filco Wireless (Bluetooth) it was in short production and has been discontinued because they were not FCC licensed and had some Bluetooth issues. apparently Diatec is developing a new version.

Christine


----------



## thiru

Hi

Does anyone know where I could get _any_ US/UK (QWERTY) mechanical keyboard in France (now that's a challenge







)?

As for what I'm looking for, I have no idea, I don't understand some of the words in the guide... What's tactile? the difference between release point/bottoming out/actuating?

All I know is that I have a rubber key dome keyboard which I hate for typing and I have a Thinkpad whose keyboard I absolutely love (scissor switch with rubber dome). I'd rather not have a loud keyboard. My most "demanding" games keyboard-wise would be FPS, but I don't really see how that would influence which keyboard would be the best for me (when I game the way my keys feel doesn't bother me).

Thanks (especially if you can find a seller here







)


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Hi

Does anyone know where I could get _any_ US/UK (QWERTY) mechanical keyboard in France (now that's a challenge







)?

As for what I'm looking for, I have no idea, I don't understand some of the words in the guide... What's tactile? the difference between release point/bottoming out/actuating?

All I know is that I have a rubber key dome keyboard which I hate for typing and I have a Thinkpad whose keyboard I absolutely love (scissor switch with rubber dome). I'd rather not have a loud keyboard. My most "demanding" games keyboard-wise would be FPS, but I don't really see how that would influence which keyboard would be the best for me (when I game the way my keys feel doesn't bother me).

Thanks (especially if you can find a seller here







)


Thinkpads are _known_ for their keyboards, it's no surprise that you like it that much. They do make thinkpad-style keyboards for desktops in you're interested in that.

And yeah, I still have to add some definitions to the guide, sorry about that

Bottoming out = pressing the key all the way to the bottom.
Actuate = when the switch makes the electrical contact
Tactile = there's a bump at the point where the switch actuates, so you can feel it
Release point = when the switch opens the electrical contact

Sorry I'm not explaining more, I'm in class and got to close the laptop now because we've got a quiz


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Thinkpads are _known_ for their keyboards, it's no surprise that you like it that much. They do make thinkpad-style keyboards for desktops in you're interested in that.

And yeah, I still have to add some definitions to the guide, sorry about that

Bottoming out = pressing the key all the way to the bottom.
Actuate = when the switch makes the electrical contact
Tactile = there's a bump at the point where the switch actuates, so you can feel it
Release point = when the switch *opens* the electrical contact

Sorry I'm not explaining more, I'm in class and got to close the laptop now because we've got a quiz









By "open" you mean release point is when the key stops being registered right ?

I used to think that Thinkpads actually had the best keyboards _ever_ but after reading this guide it seems like there's even _better_ stuff for desktops








I've found Cherry keyboards here but since they don't mention mechanical switches in their description I suppose it means they're the rubber type...

Good luck on your quiz!


----------



## ryanmh

I was thinking about buying the Filco Majestouch, is EliteKeyboards a reputable site? If it's not, are there any other places I could purchase this keyboard?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

On the mx brown and blue switches, after they actuate, are they a linear pressure feel?


----------



## Izvire

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ryanmh* 
I was thinking about buying the Filco Majestouch, *is EliteKeyboards a reputable site?* If it's not, are there any other places I could purchase this keyboard?

Yeah it is


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I got my keyboard from Elitekeyboards in a few days.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


By "open" you mean release point is when the key stops being registered right ?

I used to think that Thinkpads actually had the best keyboards _ever_ but after reading this guide it seems like there's even _better_ stuff for desktops








I've found Cherry keyboards here but since they don't mention mechanical switches in their description I suppose it means they're the rubber type...

Good luck on your quiz!


Thanks, I did good









But yes, a switch being open means that the contacts aren't touching anymore, therefore there is no current.

If you want to identify a Cherry keyboard to see what switches it has and what not, compare it's model number to this guide.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ryanmh*


I was thinking about buying the Filco Majestouch, is EliteKeyboards a reputable site? If it's not, are there any other places I could purchase this keyboard?


Yes. They're haven't even been open for a year yet, but pretty much everyone here who has a Filco got it from them. Brian just cares about his customers.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


On the mx brown and blue switches, after they actuate, are they a linear pressure feel?


I have no idea what you mean. But you can check out the force graphs on the first page of the thread. They're all there.


----------



## v193r

I've a got a question. Why are the black cherries and alps considered better for gaming when they are stiffer? I understand that during gaming you dont wanna hit the wrong shiz. But i felt the other day while playing snake which you have to react faster on the keyboard than many other games that my laptop keyboard reacted faster than my abs m1.
On that note there is some truth in this config guide (keyboard section):
http://www.hltv.org/news/3758-heaton...fig-gear-video


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


I've a got a question. Why are the black cherries and alps considered better for gaming when they are stiffer? I understand that during gaming you dont wanna hit the wrong shiz. But i felt the other day while playing snake which you have to react faster on the keyboard than many other games that my laptop keyboard reacted faster than my abs m1.
On that note there is some truth in this config guide (keyboard section):
http://www.hltv.org/news/3758-heaton...fig-gear-video


It's the Cherry Blacks and Reds that are considered best for gaming, not the Alps. It's because they are linear - no tactile bump to get in the way, no click to get annoying, and the actuation and release points are at the same position so your reaction is better (see the force graphs on the first page). Blacks are stiffer, for people who tend to hit the wrong keys or in between keys once in a while, and reds are super light. Unfortunately reds won't be easily available until later this year.

There are also Green, Yellow, and Dark Yellow Alps, but you'll only find those on very old boards.


----------



## v193r

how are the happy hacking lite 2 or lite for gaming?
http://pfuca-store.stores.yahoo.net/haphackeylit1.html
I don't i have a prob pressing keys by accident since i just usually keep my hand on wasd/space/ctrl. But i like my abs m1 because when i press something i know i pressed it but isnt that the point of mech keys and all them hav this to a certain degree.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
how are the happy hacking lite 2 or lite for gaming?
http://pfuca-store.stores.yahoo.net/haphackeylit1.html
I don't i have a prob pressing keys by accident since i just usually keep my hand on wasd/space/ctrl. But i like my abs m1 because when i press something i know i pressed it but isnt that the point of mech keys and all them hav this to a certain degree.

The Lite is absolutely terrible. You should avoid it like the plague, unless you're only buying it to see if you like the layout without paying for an HHKB 2 Pro.

But yeah that's the entire point of mechanical boards. That and the fact that they last for practically forever. If you _really_ like the ABS M1 and there's nothing you'd change about it, then stick with it. But if you want to change the stiffness, get a more precise or completely remove the tactile bump, lengthen/shorten the travel distance, or whatever else, then that's when you should start looking for a new switch type.


----------



## v193r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


The Lite is absolutely terrible. You should avoid it like the plague, unless you're only buying it to see if you like the layout without paying for an HHKB 2 Pro.

But yeah that's the entire point of mechanical boards. That and the fact that they last for practically forever. If you _really_ like the ABS M1 and there's nothing you'd change about it, then stick with it. But if you want to change the stiffness, get a more precise or completely remove the tactile bump, lengthen/shorten the travel distance, or whatever else, then that's when you should start looking for a new switch type.


I didnt say it was perfect. The ABS M1 is my first mech and now im hooked. These are a multitude of probs with the ABS M1: wasd print fading away, led on caps, scoll is way to bright, and like I said that for me it doesnt seem to be the best for gaming even though its pretty good. I would like something like the HHP2 layout and size becuz it looks like the keys of it are a bit bigger. I'm considering cherry black, brown, red and topre.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
I didnt say it was perfect. The ABS M1 is my first mech and now im hooked. These are a multitude of probs with the ABS M1: wasd print fading away, led on caps, scoll is way to bright, and like I said that for me it doesnt seem to be the best for gaming even though its pretty good. I would like something like the HHP2 layout and size becuz it looks like the keys of it are a bit bigger. I'm considering cherry black, brown, red and topre.

Well if you don't want to pay for a Topre board, you can wait and get this at the end of the year:


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Well if you don't want to pay for a Topre board, you can wait and get this at the end of the year:










What'd they do, put some switches on a PCB and send it to retail with no case? That thing looks flimsy as hell!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
What'd they do, put some switches on a PCB and send it to retail with no case? That thing looks flimsy as hell!

It was actually a mod from someone over at geekhack a while ago. But everyone really liked it.

And it's not as flimsy as you'd think. It's got a solid aluminum casing underneath it. Open up the site and check out the gallery, you'll see what I'm talking about.

I'm fully planning on picking one up. I just can't decide if I want it with Cherry Reds for gaming or with Blues for carrying with my laptop when I travel. But I'm leaning towards the blues.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Ah, I remember seeing that. It's just that other picture gives it a sense of scale, of how small it really is. I guess what makes it look fragile is that you can see _under_ the keys in places, which is really weird and it looks like they're really exposed. At least that's what it looks like.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Ah, I remember seeing that. It's just that other picture gives it a sense of scale, of how small it really is. I guess what makes it look fragile is that you can see _under_ the keys in places, which is really weird and it looks like they're really exposed. At least that's what it looks like.

Yeah, he was going for a floating keyboard look. But either way, exposed or not, worst case all you can possibly do is break a stem off a switch and replace it for 75 cents.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I was thinking about saying floating. It really does look like that, he pulled it off.









Any word on price?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I was thinking about saying floating. It really does look like that, he pulled it off.









Any word on price?

Nope, nothing yet.


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
It was actually a mod from someone over at geekhack a while ago. But everyone really liked it.

And it's not as flimsy as you'd think. It's got a solid aluminum casing underneath it. Open up the site and check out the gallery, you'll see what I'm talking about.

I'm fully planning on picking one up. I just can't decide if I want it with Cherry Reds for gaming or with Blues for carrying with my laptop when I travel. But I'm leaning towards the blues.

You've tried a lot of switches i bet which do you like the most for gaming. I'm considering reds. Also is the HHP2 keys larger than usual keyboard? Why is the HHP2 so expensive?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
You've tried a lot of switches i bet which do you like the most for gaming. I'm considering reds. Also is the HHP2 keys larger than usual keyboard? Why is the HHP2 so expensive?

Right now, MY switches. They have a steeper slope to their force curve than MX Blacks (start at 25cN, end at 110cN), so they kind of catch your finger and stop you from hitting the bottom unless you REALLY press hard.

Though I haven't tried reds, they're _extremely_ rare. At least until that board is put into production. And I think I'll like them more than MY switches.


----------



## Dezeer

Hi, I am new to the world of mechanical switch keyboards and I would like to have answers to few questions.

In the first page there is description of the switch types and there are these words "tactile feel" and "actuating point". Is it that the first is: a point where I could feel that the key is pressed, and the second is: when the keypress is really sent to computer?

I am thinking a keyboard that would most feel like rubber domed, because I don't have a problem typing or playing with this (although it doesn't support some key combinations). Would black switch feel most like rubber domed (as on rubber there isn't a tactile feel?) or does all off them feel completely different?

Does any company make keyboard that have Swedish/Finnish key layout, or something similar?









In a few months my sister is going to China (hong kong) and I am thinking if she could get me a keyboard from there. Does anybody know where my sister would get the best suitable keyboard for me?


----------



## Manyak

You're right about the tactile bump, but the actuation point is technically when the switch makes contact and closes the circuit. There is always a slight delay between then and when the key is actually sent, but you've got the idea.

There aren't any mechanical switches that feel like rubber domes. But there is a rubber dome capacitive switch from Topre, which is very high quality. And the boards that use it (Realforce / HHKB) are very expensive. But that's about the closest you're going to get.

And I don't know where to look for that key layout, but if anyone makes it Cherry will.


----------



## Dezeer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
And I don't know where to look for that key layout, but if anyone makes it Cherry will.

Do you mean that the keyboard would be directly under Cherry's name or could it be "OEM" product?

OH, I just realized that if the keyboard would have just the same layout it could be, maybe, possible to just change the keycaps.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dezeer*


Do you mean that the keyboard would be directly under Cherry's name or could it be "OEM" product?


Yeah, under Cherry's name. They used to make OEM ones too but none of the companies have been using them in forever. The OEMs prefer using rubber domes for everything because it gives them a better profit margin.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Unicomp offers ISO (105-key) layout keyboards. They don't have Swedish/Finnish offered on the site, but they do say "call" for other languages. 
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/customizer.html

They're basically a cost reduced IBM Model M and are very high quality keyboards with mechanical buckling spring switches.


----------



## BlankThis

Manyak I've got say $90 to spend on a keyboard. I want something that is loud and clicky (So probably Blue switches from reading), what is my best option? eBay is sucking for mechanical keyboards ATM. Oh and it needs to be black.


----------



## rpsgc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Unicomp offers ISO (105-key) layout keyboards. They don't have Swedish/Finnish offered on the site, but they do say "call" for other languages. 
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/customizer.html


Yup. Just send him an e-mail asking for it.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BlankThis*


Manyak I've got say $90 to spend on a keyboard. I want something that is loud and clicky (So probably Blue switches from reading), what is my best option? eBay is sucking for mechanical keyboards ATM. Oh and it needs to be black.


I just linked it for someone else, but:
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/customizer.html

I have an original IBM Model M and it's loud, clicky, and has really nice, crisp tactile feedback. Only thing not to like is that it's off-white (not quite beige I think). Unicomp offers black ones with gray keys though.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I just linked it for someone else, but:
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/customizer.html

I have an original IBM Model M and it's loud, clicky, and has really nice, crisp tactile feedback. Only thing not to like is that it's off-white (not quite beige I think). Unicomp offers black ones with gray keys though.










There's also the SpaceSaver 104/105 which is the same as the Customizer, but the body is smaller.


----------



## Dezeer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Unicomp offers ISO (105-key) layout keyboards. They don't have Swedish/Finnish offered on the site, but they do say "call" for other languages. 
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/customizer.html

They're basically a cost reduced IBM Model M and are very high quality keyboards with mechanical buckling spring switches.


Nah. That keyboard doesn't have NKRO and it's too loud for me, I would like something none clicky for midnight browsing/coding.

And I am still exploring the possibility that my sister buys "it" from hong kong, Bangkok or Sydney


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dezeer* 
Nah. That keyboard doesn't have NKRO and it's too loud for me, I would like something none clicky for midnight browsing/coding.

And I am still exploring the possibility that my sister buys "it" from hong kong, Bangkok or Sydney

You can get a keyboard with the Cherry MX Browns, but anytime the keycaps are bottomed out, they'll be loud, or "clacky" since it's plastic hitting plastic.

So, if you can master the skill of typing without ever bottoming out, then you can have a noise level that's low enough for midnight use.


----------



## Dezeer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
You can get a keyboard with the Cherry MX Browns, but anytime the keycaps are bottomed out, they'll be loud, or "clacky" since it's plastic hitting plastic.

So, if you can master the skill of typing without ever bottoming out, then you can have a noise level that's low enough for midnight use.

Yeah I have been thinking just that, as it will take the keypress on the middle.

The "problem" for me is that does any of those places sell keyboard with the same keymap as "Swedish/Finnish" layout







.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dezeer* 
Yeah I have been thinking just that, as it will take the keypress on the middle.

The "problem" for me is that does any of those places sell keyboard with the same keymap as "Swedish/Finnish" layout







.

There's a chance that asking on GeekHack.org might lead you to the answer much quicker than it would here.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BlankThis*


Manyak I've got say $90 to spend on a keyboard. I want something that is loud and clicky (So probably Blue switches from reading), what is my best option? eBay is sucking for mechanical keyboards ATM. Oh and it needs to be black.


Probably the Scorpius M10.

You could also go for a unicomp spacesaver (ask them to throw in black keys for another $20), IBM M13, or Filco Zero, just to throw some out there.

You just need to decide if you want Cherry Blues, Buckling Springs, or White Alps.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dezeer*


Yeah I have been thinking just that, as it will take the keypress on the middle.

The "problem" for me is that does any of those places sell keyboard with the same keymap as "Swedish/Finnish" layout







.


Blank keys?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Keys with no lettering on them at all. Just a blank top. That way as long as you get one with an ISO layout (vertical enter, 105 keys, etc.) you won't have to find one in a specific language.


----------



## Kaankin

Hey check out what I read today steelseries 6Gv2 coming up for preorder at amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/SteelSeries-64...308H7T23M681SC, not bad for $100. Read it at engadget.com.


----------



## clownfart

Looks like the 7G without a hub.


----------



## Dezeer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Keys with no lettering on them at all. Just a blank top. That way as long as you get one with an ISO layout (vertical enter, 105 keys, etc.) you won't have to find one in a specific language.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


Blank keys?


Yes, you are getting to my point, it wouldn't have to have the letters on the keys (but it would help little if there were). Black swithces would be better for gaming, but are those really horrible for typing and go with browns?

I found from geekhacks site that there really is a keyboard that has got Swe/Fin layout, it is the topre realforce, but it has got those really soft swithes 45g and it cost 190€.


----------



## TwoCables

I'm finally able to order the Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO. But before I do, is there another board with MX Blues and full NKRO that is better than the Majestouch, but that doesn't cost more than $135?

I'm an "All or nothing" type of person, so I tend to want the best of the best (when possible).


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I'm finally able to order the Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO. But before I do, is there another board with MX Blues and full NKRO that is better than the Majestouch, but that doesn't cost more than $135?

I'm an "All or nothing" type of person, so I tend to want the best of the best (when possible).


Not really. That's the only keyboard with MX switches that has full NKRO, that I'm aware of.


----------



## Manyak

I was just reading up a bit more on the Sidewinder x4 and its NKRO. And ironically it seems that it actually does ghost. Like, in the real term of it (here):

Quote:



But several times while experimenting with the X4, I discovered that rather than dropping key presses, it was adding them. Pressing a large number of keys on the left side of the keyboard frequently cause the I or the Comma keys to register, for example.


No matter who tries to go over that 6+4 key limit, they get shot down.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I was just reading up a bit more on the Sidewinder x4 and its NKRO. And ironically it seems that it actually does ghost. Like, in the real term of it (here):

Quote:



But several times while experimenting with the X4, I discovered that rather than dropping key presses, it was adding them. Pressing a large number of keys on the left side of the keyboard frequently cause the I or the Comma keys to register, for example.


No matter who tries to go over that 6+4 key limit, they get shot down.


Now if only Microsoft could see this and say "Oh. We didn't know. We'll change it our marketing. Sorry.

I'd also like to see them get rid of http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscie...Explained.mspx, or at least correct it. Because of them, we will soon find ourselves having people argue with us saying "No, you're wrong: it's not NKRO; it's Anti-Ghosting. How do I know this? That's easy! Microsoft says so."


----------



## TwoCables

I just ordered the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO! I also included their keycap puller so that I can confidently replace the black Esc key with the red one.

It was a bit difficult to pull the trigger on the order since this is uncharted territory for me, but I'm glad it's over with and now I'm really looking forward to the day it will arrive!! I can hardly wait!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I just ordered the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO! I also included their keycap puller so that I can confidently replace the black Esc key with the red one.

It was a bit difficult to pull the trigger on the order since this is uncharted territory for me, but I'm glad it's over with and now I'm really looking forward to the day it will arrive!! I can hardly wait!

I have no doubt that you will enjoy it







. And the keycap puller is definitely a good purchase. Esc key or not, eventually you're going to want to clean the board and using a puller is the safest way to get your keys off the stems. IMO everyone should have one.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I have no doubt that you will enjoy it







. And the keycap puller is definitely a good purchase. Esc key or not, eventually you're going to want to clean the board and using a puller is the safest way to get your keys off the stems. IMO everyone should have one.


Oh whoa, for some reason I didn't even think of that. I love how things work out.


----------



## Dezeer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *olli3*


Look what I just got in the post!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...ton/filco2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...ton/filco1.jpg

Filco Majestouch NKRO 105 UK layout MX brown switches.










Just what I have been looking for, but apparently there isn't really a full set of keycaps for that, not even full blanks







.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dezeer* 







Just what I have been looking for, but apparently there isn't really a full set of keycaps for that, not even full blanks







.

Well there are full blank keysets from Diatech for 105 key keyboards, just not that you can directly order from Elite Keyboards. They might be able to special order it, though.


----------



## clownfart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dezeer*









Just what I have been looking for, but apparently there isn't really a full set of keycaps for that, not even full blanks







.


They do have a blank keycap set, it's just not in stock at elitekeyboards.
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...s&pid=fkb10487

The special orders are they keyboards that come with blank keycaps only. Those should come back in stock late spring.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clownfart*


They do have a blank keycap set, it's just not in stock at elitekeyboards.
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...s&pid=fkb10487

The special orders are they keyboards that come with blank keycaps only. Those should come back in stock late spring.


Yes, and there's also a difference between the blank keycaps on the blank keyboards, and the blank keycaps that you order separately.

In their printing process, they put a coating over the entire key after they put the letter on (see "pad printing" in the guide). The keycaps on the Otaku keyboards skip the lettering part, and get the coating. The keycaps you order separately are never put on the printing line to begin with, so they don't get the coating at all.

Neither is better than the other, they just have a slightly different texture. Just thought I'd point that out.


----------



## Kaankin

Well I placed my order as well for the Majestouch Tenkeyless Tactile Touch as it is what I need space wise since I use the G13 for gaming anyways. I wanted to see if i could pick it up since I'm only 12 miles away from them but no dice. I should receive it tomorrow!







Can't wait till I go back home to Frisco and set it up.








Thx Manyak and all for help!


----------



## Sorian

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


The keycaps on the Otaku keyboards skip the lettering part, and get the coating. The keycaps you order separately are never put on the printing line to begin with, so they don't get the coating at all.


Will there be a difference between how fast the keycaps turn shiny between the two? I would assume the ones without that extra coating would have either a difference in the amount of shine or the time it takes to turn shiny.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sorian*


Will there be a difference between how fast the keycaps turn shiny between the two? I would assume the ones without that extra coating would have either a difference in the amount of shine or the time it takes to turn shiny.


I think the coated ones would take longer to shine, as it takes virtually no time for the uncoated ones to start to shine.


----------



## thiru

Hi
I finally found a US qwerty mechanical keyboard in France







(well there's the Steelseries 7G but that's a bit pricey)
G80-3000LSCEU-2

Which switches does it use? is it a decent price (by European standards)?


----------



## clownfart

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timw4mail* 
I think the coated ones would take longer to shine, as it takes virtually no time for the uncoated ones to start to shine.

Actually my blank set isn't as fine. You can tell by comparing the space bars. I don't have a great camera this is the best I could do.


----------



## Kaankin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Hi
I finally found a US qwerty mechanical keyboard in France







(well there's the Steelseries 7G but that's a bit pricey)
G80-3000LSCEU-2

Which switches does it use? is it a decent price (by European standards)?


well m french is alittle rusty but i think it says cherry blue switches (mx bleu) right?


----------



## Sorian

I'm just trying to decide between waiting for the otaku version of browns or buying the normal version and then buying the blank keycaps later. It seems pointless to spend $30+ for a set of blank keycaps if there aren't going to be any advantages to them over the ones that come on the otaku.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kaankin* 
well m french is alittle rusty but i think it says cherry blue switches (mx bleu) right?

lol I didn't see that







thanks!

How loud are blue switches? Will I hear them over my audio system? through my headphones?


----------



## Kaankin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
lol I didn't see that







thanks!

How loud are blue switches? Will I hear them over my audio system? through my headphones?

Naw not if you wearing headphones, if your wearing a good set you shouldn't hear anything else but your music/games/videos etc.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sorian*


I'm just trying to decide between waiting for the otaku version of browns or buying the normal version and then buying the blank keycaps later. It seems pointless to spend $30+ for a set of blank keycaps if there aren't going to be any advantages to them over the ones that come on the otaku.


The only real advantage is that you also end up with a set of lettered keycaps. You can always buy a set of blank keycaps but you can't buy a set of lettered ones. Not this cheap at least.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


lol I didn't see that







thanks!

How loud are blue switches? Will I hear them over my audio system? through my headphones?


Probably not, not unless you listen to music at _really_ low volumes.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kaankin*


Naw not if you wearing headphones, if your wearing a good set you shouldn't hear anything else but your music/games/videos etc.


Actually it's the other way around. The best sets are open, so you can hear everything (and people can hear what you're listening to).


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Actually it's the other way around. The best sets are open, so you can hear everything (and people can hear what you're listening to).


Not true at all. Open headphones have a different, but not better, sound then closed.


----------



## Sorian

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


The only real advantage is that you also end up with a set of lettered keycaps. You can always buy a set of blank keycaps but you can't buy a set of lettered ones. Not this cheap at least.


Well I already know how to touch type, for the most part, and rarely, if ever, look down at the keys, so I guess I'll just wait for Otaku. Blank key caps look so much cleaner, and don't know why I'd ever need to get lettered keycaps again.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clownfart* 

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dezeer* 

Quote:


Originally Posted by *olli3* 
Look what I just got in the post!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...ton/filco2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...ton/filco1.jpg

Filco Majestouch NKRO 105 UK layout MX brown switches.









Just what I have been looking for, but apparently there isn't really a full set of keycaps for that, not even full blanks







.

They do have a blank keycap set, it's just not in stock at elitekeyboards.
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...s&pid=fkb10487

The special orders are they keyboards that come with blank keycaps only. Those should come back in stock late spring.

Yeah, but the layout is different. Dezeer is looking for the 105 UK layout as opposed to the 104/87 U.S. layout. So, these blank keycaps won't work.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kaankin* 
Well I placed my order as well for the Majestouch Tenkeyless Tactile Touch as it is what I need space wise since I use the G13 for gaming anyways. I wanted to see if i could pick it up since I'm only 12 miles away from them but no dice. I should receive it tomorrow!







Can't wait till I go back home to Frisco and set it up.








Thx Manyak and all for help!

Congratulations on your purchase! It's kinda cool to have someone doing this at the same time as I! I'm really looking forward to it. I can almost taste it - err, _feel_ it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
lol I didn't see that







thanks!

How loud are blue switches? Will I hear them over my audio system? through my headphones?

I recommend performing the following two YouTube searches:

Cherry MX Blue
Cherry G80-3000LSCEU-2
The 2nd search doesn't find any exact matches, but there are some Cherry boards in the results that have the MX Blues.

Most of the people who are typing on their boards in these videos are bottoming out, so pay attention to the higher-pitched click sound instead of the sound of the keycaps hitting the body of the board. As long as you don't bottom out the caps, then this click sound is all you'll hear.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I have no doubt that you will enjoy it







. And the keycap puller is definitely a good purchase. Esc key or not, eventually you're going to want to clean the board and using a puller is the safest way to get your keys off the stems. IMO everyone should have one.


I use two small screwdrivers







. Then again both my keyboards cost about 1/5 of a filco (actually less than that since they were a gift







), and I have two so I can always salvage one in case I screw up a key too badly.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Actually it's the other way around. The best sets are open, so you can hear everything (and people can hear what you're listening to).



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Not true at all. Open headphones have a different, but not better, sound then closed.


Sorry for going off topic, but the audio nerd in me couldn't keep quiet.

That is like comparing sealed speakers with ported speakers (actually open baffle vs ported would be a better comparison, but I'll stick to sealed vs ported for simplicity).

One design doesn't necessarily mean its better, however sealed speakers in general are said to have more accurate, tighter bass. Of course there are always well designed ported speakers that can sound just as good, so it's really too big of a generalization (i.e. it depends on many other factors). The same idea goes for open vs. closed headphones.

With that said, the reason many people say open headphones have better sound quality is that generally the open backed headphones available (especially in lower price ranges) have better SQ per dollar than closed back hps.

Going _farther _off topic, IMO even though my closed back headphones don't have as big of a soundstage, or as good of detail as open backs I could've gotten, they make up for this with isolation. I mean, those few extra details you can hear with the open back headphones are drowned out by something like a conversation, or a dishwasher in the next room. In the real world the tradeoff is well worth it to be able to crank up a 120mm delta and a 92mm vga fan a few feet away from my head while typing on a mechanical keyboard and still be able to hear subtle details.


----------



## Manyak

Yeah you've got a point, I get what you're saying. I stand corrected. Maybe I should stick to keyboards, yeah?


----------



## rpsgc

Duuuudes! I like received my 7G right now. It's like, totally far out. It's going to take a while to get used to it. And its layout too. I keep hitting the ~ key instead of the backspace :X

Just one thing, is it me or are the keys slippery? It feels like it, like rubber, slippery.

The noise doesn't bother me per se, it's not really THAT much louder than my previous membrane keyboard as I usually bottom out the keys when typing. It's just a different kind of noise.

Also, BLINDING WHITE LAZORZ!!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rpsgc*


Duuuudes! I like received my 7G right now. It's like, totally far out. It's going to take a while to get used to it. And its layout too. I keep hitting the ~ key instead of the backspace :X

Just one thing, is it me or are the keys slippery? It feels like it, like rubber, slippery.

The noise doesn't bother me per se, it's not really THAT much louder than my previous membrane keyboard as I usually bottom out the keys when typing. It's just a different kind of noise.

Also, BLINDING WHITE LAZORZ!!










What was your previous keyboard?


----------



## rpsgc

A Logitech Media 600 (or Access 600 for you Yanks) which had semi-low profile keys and is making typing on this keyboard (with full size keys) a pain









I did furious typing eh (hence the noise)


----------



## Kaankin

Well just received my KB not 30mins ago, very nice solid feel, except the keys are so so, I'm sure i can swap out eventually with better ones. I won't be able to tested out until I get home thou (at work), very excited!








Have any of you guys cracked one of these Filco KB open? I don't see any screws! Any ideas?


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

has anyone even consider itilan red paint on the filco? I would love to have that, but i'm gonna just get black...soon...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kaankin* 
Well just received my KB not 30mins ago, very nice solid feel, except the keys are so so, I'm sure i can swap out eventually with better ones. I won't be able to tested out until I get home thou (at work), very excited!








Have any of you guys cracked one of these Filco KB open? I don't see any screws! Any ideas?

which kind did you get'? and why you wanna crack it open? Just take out the keys? hammer can knock some keys out, but its just so strong... i hear a saw would the best


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kaankin* 
Well just received my KB not 30mins ago, very nice solid feel, except the keys are so so, I'm sure i can swap out eventually with better ones. I won't be able to tested out until I get home thou (at work), very excited!








Have any of you guys cracked one of these Filco KB open? I don't see any screws! Any ideas?

On the bottom, there are two screws on the left and right sides of the board right by the feet you prop up, and there's another one under the label.


----------



## Kaankin

I got the tenkeyless, just wanted to see if i can add a mini USB hub some where and maybe down the line swap out some switches for red ones.


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kaankin* 
I got the tenkeyless, just wanted to see if i can add a mini USB hub some where and maybe down the line swap out some switches for red ones.

actually, thats one of my questions i been meaning to ask, can you actually change some switches, or thats a mod you'd have to do?

for the op: when will red switches info will be adding to the guide? I dont really know much about them...


----------



## Kaankin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
On the bottom, there are two screws on the left and right sides of the board right by the feet you prop up, and there's another one under the label.

Ahh cool thx! I'll wait a month first and see if every key works before i crack it open.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234* 
actually, thats one of my questions i been meaning to ask, can you actually change some switches, or thats a mod you'd have to do?

for the op: when will red switches info will be adding to the guide? I dont really know much about them...









I can't find their force graph anywhere, which is why it isn't up. But basically they are just very light linear switches.

And yeah you'd have to do the mod if you want to change only a few switches. If you only want a handful, like 10 switches or so, you can order them from digikey for really cheap. If you want to replace all the switches you're better off getting an old keyboard to harvest them from.


----------



## v193r

i want cherry reds for gaming so bad. there are quiet, quick due to less force, linear, and godly overall.


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

Thanks so much for the infomation man. I learn something new each day from you









Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


i want cherry reds for gaming so bad. there are quiet, quick due to less force, linear, and godly overall.


Thats what i been hearing, which makes me wish filco had some red switchs. Are they good for typing as well since they arent as stiff?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234*


Thanks so much for the infomation man. I learn something new each day from you









Thats what i been hearing, which makes me wish filco had some red switchs. Are they good for typing as well since they arent as stiff?


Well that's up to you to decide. Some people like stiffer keys, some people like lighter ones.


----------



## pow3rtr1p

Happy 2000 posts for this thread, Manyak.


----------



## Manyak

lol









What's even cooler is that if you google "mechanical keyboards" this thread is the 1st result


----------



## pow3rtr1p

Helping spread the word, I like it.


----------



## thiru

Well I'm still not sure I want to buy a mechanical keyboard after all, the price is prohibitive (got other stuff to buy, computer related and other).

I think I'm going to look for scissor switch keyboards instead (cheap right?), since I really like my Thinkpad's keyboard. Do you know anything about them?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Well I'm still not sure I want to buy a mechanical keyboard after all, the price is prohibitive (got other stuff to buy, computer related and other).

I think I'm going to look for scissor switch keyboards instead (cheap right?), since I really like my Thinkpad's keyboard. Do you know anything about them?


Yes - the Thinkpad keyboards are pretty much the best scissor switches there are. But the good news is that you can get them in a desktop board too.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Yes - the Thinkpad keyboards are pretty much the best scissor switches there are. But the good news is that you can get them in a desktop board too.

lol I forgot about those (when I bought my Thinkpad I promised myself I'd buy the same keyboard for my desktop later), having a trackpoint on any keyboard is awesome







!

Unfortunately, I can't find a qwerty one in France (out of stock







). But I'm going to game with it, so the fn key will surely bother me (I can manage fine, but it's tiring).

Is it safe to assume that any keyboard that's slim uses scissor switches and not just regular rubber domes?

edit: why'd admin remove rep for mods? it was cool







(maybe just hide the count)


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
lol I forgot about those (when I bought my Thinkpad I promised myself I'd buy the same keyboard for my desktop later), having a trackpoint on any keyboard is awesome







!

Unfortunately, I can't find a qwerty one in France (out of stock







). But I'm going to game with it, so the fn key will surely bother me (I can manage fine, but it's tiring).

Is it safe to assume that any keyboard that's slim uses scissor switches and not just regular rubber domes?

edit: why'd admin remove rep for mods? it was cool







(maybe just hide the count)

98% of slim keyboards (with slim keys obviously) are scissor switches. There are a very small number of them that are mechanical, but you won't run into them unless you're looking for them specifically.

FYI you can actually still rep mods using http://www.overclock.net/reputation.php?p=8654740 (replace the post number with whatever it's supposed to be). But it doesn't really mean squat anyway


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


98% of slim keyboards (with slim keys obviously) are scissor switches. There are a very small number of them that are mechanical, but you won't run into them unless you're looking for them specifically.

FYI you can actually still rep mods using http://www.overclock.net/reputation.php?p=8654740 (replace the post number with whatever it's supposed to be). But it doesn't really mean squat anyway










Ok, gonna see what I can find. I've searched a bit and it seems impossible to find in France a keyboard that's qwerty, slim, cheap and with a normal layout (most of the time they're UK which I don't like)...

_Off topic: I disagree, mods help people and they deserve to be thanked like everyone. Hiding the rep count would have been a good compromise. Can you see when you're repped?_


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Ok, gonna see what I can find. I've searched a bit and it seems impossible to find in France a keyboard that's qwerty, slim, cheap and with a normal layout (most of the time they're UK which I don't like)...

_Off topic: I disagree, mods help people and they deserve to be thanked like everyone. Hiding the rep count would have been a good compromise. Can you see when you're repped?_


Yup, we still have the list in UserCP.

Thanks


----------



## Phaedrus2129

My buddy in Canada who I mentioned a while back is getting a Filco NKRO w/ MX Blues for CA$170 shipped. He said he'd like a Das Professional S, but they only ones available up there are the older ones with transposition problems with huge price hikes because they're imported by resellers.

So... He wore through his last keyboard in six months, actually tearing the membrane. The keyboard he's using now is two weeks old and he's already rendered most of the alphanumeric range mushy. He doesn't type extremely hard, but he types a *lot*, 24/7, and at 80-120wpm. Do you think a Filco could hold up to that for at least five years?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


My buddy in Canada who I mentioned a while back is getting a Filco NKRO w/ MX Blues for CA$170 shipped. He said he'd like a Das Professional S, but they only ones available up there are the older ones with transposition problems with huge price hikes because they're imported by resellers.

So... He wore through his last keyboard in six months, actually tearing the membrane. The keyboard he's using now is two weeks old and he's already rendered most of the alphanumeric range mushy. He doesn't type extremely hard, but he types a *lot*, 24/7, and at 80-120wpm. Do you think a Filco could hold up to that for at least five years?


Sure will, as long as he doesn't mind ending up with blank, shiny keys


----------



## Phaedrus2129

He thinks he'll probably get a set of blank keycaps too anyway. He switches between QWERTY and DVORAK a lot.


----------



## Manyak

Well then he's only gotta worry about the shiny part.









But the keyswitches themselves will last through that easily.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Ok, gonna see what I can find. I've searched a bit and it seems impossible to find in France a keyboard that's qwerty, slim, cheap and with a normal layout (most of the time they're UK which I don't like)...

_Off topic: I disagree, mods help people and they deserve to be thanked like everyone. Hiding the rep count would have been a good compromise. Can you see when you're repped?_


How to thank an OCN staff member:

Begin a new Private Message to the staff member in question.
Place your cursor in the Title field.
Type "Thank you" or some variation of it.
Press Tab to place your cursor in the Message box.
Type "Thank you" or some variation of it.
Press Tab twice to select the "Submit Message" button.
Press Enter.
Fortunately, this can apply to anyone here on OCN. In fact, you can even do the same thing in a reply to the thread where the person helped you out.

I am aware of the "super secret staff Rep" trick, but why go through all that trouble when it is much more meaningful to give your Thank-You directly to them?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


How to thank an OCN staff member:

Begin a new Private Message to the staff member in question.
Place your cursor in the Title field.
Type "Thank you" or some variation of it.
Press Tab to place your cursor in the Message box.
Type "Thank you" or some variation of it.
Press Tab twice to select the "Submit Message" button.
Press Enter.
Fortunately, this can apply to anyone here on OCN. In fact, you can even do the same thing in a reply to the thread where the person helped you out.

I am aware of the "super secret staff Rep" trick, but why go through all that trouble when it is much more meaningful to give your Thank-You directly to them?


Thanks for the post. It was actually useful, now I know how the list BBCODE works









On topic, it seems a US-qwerty scissor switch keyboard is even harder to find here than a Cherry G80-3000


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Thanks for the post. It was actually useful, now I know how the list BBCODE works









On topic, it seems a US-qwerty scissor switch keyboard is even harder to find here than a Cherry G80-3000










I just use the WYSIWYG editor.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I just use the WYSIWYG editor.










oooh that looks cool, which one are you using?
And stop going off-topic I'm running out of things to say to _stay _on topic







. Yeah I'm like that, especially in this kind of thread where everyone asks questions but half are buried... but not this one thanks to Manyak (among others I'm sure)


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


He thinks he'll probably get a set of blank keycaps too anyway. He switches between QWERTY and DVORAK a lot.


Where is your friend getting the Filco? My mum lives in NYC and I had my filco shipped there and got it through there. If he needs help maybe we can work something out.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
oooh that looks cool, which one are you using?
And stop going off-topic I'm running out of things to say to _stay_ on topic







. Yeah I'm like that, especially in this kind of thread where everyone asks questions but half are buried... but not this one thanks to Manyak (among others I'm sure)









What do you mean by asking me which one I'm using? I'm using the WYSIWYG editor.


----------



## IEATFISH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
oooh that looks cool, which one are you using?
And stop going off-topic I'm running out of things to say to _stay_ on topic







. Yeah I'm like that, especially in this kind of thread where everyone asks questions but half are buried... but not this one thanks to Manyak (among others I'm sure)










Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
What do you mean by asking me which one I'm using? I'm using the WYSIWYG editor.

I believe he is unaware that the WYSIWYG editor is built into OCN. When in the advanced reply view or starting a thread, look in the top right of the edit box for a symbol like this:







.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IEATFISH* 
I believe he is unaware that the WYSIWYG editor is built into OCN. When in the advanced reply view or starting a thread, look in the top right of the edit box for a symbol like this:







.

Or, go into your User CP, click Edit Options, scroll all the way down, and change the default Message Editor Interface.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
What do you mean by asking me which one I'm using? I'm using the WYSIWYG editor.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *IEATFISH* 
I believe he is unaware that the WYSIWYG editor is built into OCN. When in the advanced reply view or starting a thread, look in the top right of the edit box for a symbol like this:







.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Or, go into your User CP, click Edit Options, scroll all the way down, and change the default Message Editor Interface.

Yeah I didn't know there was one integrated on OCN, I had just googled "WYSIWYG" and found a comparison of HTML WYSIWYG editors









Now that I see what it is, not sure which I prefer...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yeah I didn't know there was one integrated on OCN, I had just googled "WYSIWYG" and found a comparison of HTML WYSIWYG editors









Now that I see what it is, not sure which I prefer...

Yeah, I'm torn between the two myself. But for about 99.99% of my posts, the WYSIWYG editor makes everything much better.


----------



## IEATFISH

I personally prefer the BB code as it can get messed up if I don't. Maybe I'm just special in that regard but sometimes it feels like (don't flame me) I'm using Open Office (which has never satisfied me) and I rage. I prefer to do it all in code on OCN.


----------



## Manyak

I find it easier to just type in the codes myself most of the time.


----------



## _02

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
I find it easier to just type in the codes myself most of the time.

Yeah I'm a notepad kinda guy. Great info on the keyboards, btw.

I found this thread interesting and informing.


----------



## TwoCables

My order for the Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO and the keycap puller has shipped! Woo-hoo!!

The estimated delivery date is this Wednesday, the 10th! I can hardly wait!!!


----------



## rpsgc

Dumb question:

Would the Filco replacement WASD keys/Red Esc work with a 7G? Eh, crazy idea I know.


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
My order for the Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO and the keycap puller has shipped! Woo-hoo!!

The estimated delivery date is this Wednesday, the 10th! I can hardly wait!!!

NICE: im jeolous!!!! I think im gonna order mine when i get a job in a month. Im leaning to get blue switchs. what switchs you get?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234* 
NICE: im jeolous!!!! I think im gonna order mine when i get a job in a month. Im leaning to get blue switchs. what switchs you get?

I ordered the Tactile Click, so I'll have the pretty Blue switches! I am really looking forward to that little click sound! I mean, after watching a bunch of videos to compare the sounds of different switches, I always found that the little click of the MX Blues made my heart flutter or something. Yeah, I'm a geek.









So, I guess I'm also saying here that if you're still undecided, then I definitely recommend using YouTube to find videos of keyboards with the Cherry MX Blues, Browns, etc. There's also an 



!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
My order for the Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO and the keycap puller has shipped! Woo-hoo!!

The estimated delivery date is this Wednesday, the 10th! I can hardly wait!!!

About time









Quote:


Originally Posted by *rpsgc* 
Dumb question:

Would the Filco replacement WASD keys/Red Esc work with a 7G? Eh, crazy idea I know.

Yes they would. All Cherry MX switches have the same stem, therefore the keycaps are all switchable. The only trouble you might get is with different sized spacebars and shift keys and stuff like that.


----------



## clownfart

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
About time









Yes they would. All Cherry MX switches have the same stem, therefore the keycaps are all switchable. The only trouble you might get is with different sized spacebars and shift keys and stuff like that.

The 7G and Filco keys should be pretty similar in size, but other cherry keycaps might be different shape. It will still fit, just not match with the rest.


----------



## Manyak

Oh yeah that's another thing - some keyboards have flat keys, some have sculpted keys. If you put a sculpted key among flat keys it'll end up kind of weird.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Oh yeah that's another thing - some keyboards have flat keys, some have sculpted keys. If you put a sculpted key among flat keys it'll end up kind of weird.


You could start a new keyboard modding revolution!


----------



## rpsgc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *twocables* 
you could start a new keyboard modding revolution!

lol


----------



## Atomagenesis

G80-3000LSCRC-2 Mechanical MX Blue keyboard for sale in:

http://www.overclock.net/main-compon...ml#post8677761


----------



## PaulHDietz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
I was just reading up a bit more on the Sidewinder x4 and its NKRO. And ironically it seems that it actually does ghost. Like, in the real term of it (here):

No matter who tries to go over that 6+4 key limit, they get shot down.

Just saw this post and wanted to respond. If you read the information we have up on our site:

http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscie...eWinderX4.mspx

you'll see that we document the limitations of the X4 in some detail. The issue that the article refers to is not a keyboard problem. You hint at the actual problem - i.e. that software on the PC side has issues with large numbers of keys being reported via USB. As we note on our page, "...many Windows programs have issues when 12 or more keys are reported simultaneously". I have seen the same issue with other USB keyboards that can report this many keys. We are currently investigating to better understand exactly what is going on. But all indications are that the X4 is faithfully reporting keypresses, without ghosting (by any definition), subject to the limitations described on our page.

Anyhow, I hope this helps clear things up...


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PaulHDietz* 
Just saw this post and wanted to respond. If you read the information we have up on our site:

http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscie...eWinderX4.mspx

you'll see that we document the limitations of the X4 in some detail. The issue that the article refers to is not a keyboard problem. You hint at the actual problem - i.e. that software on the PC side has issues with large numbers of keys being reported via USB. As we note on our page, "...many Windows programs have issues when 12 or more keys are reported simultaneously". I have seen the same issue with other USB keyboards that can report this many keys. We are currently investigating to better understand exactly what is going on. But all indications are that the X4 is faithfully reporting keypresses, without ghosting (by any definition), subject to the limitations described on our page.

Anyhow, I hope this helps clear things up...

Yeah I kind of figured that it wasn't that the controller was getting _confused_, so to speak, but that's it's got to do with whatever "hack" the people who worked on the USB side of things came up with. Just like you, so far every keyboard I've seen that attempts to circumvent the 6+4 key limit runs into some sort of problem. And I really doubt that people are messing up the matrix that badly


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PaulHDietz* 
Just saw this post and wanted to respond. If you read the information we have up on our site:

http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscie...eWinderX4.mspx

you'll see that we document the limitations of the X4 in some detail. The issue that the article refers to is not a keyboard problem. You hint at the actual problem - i.e. that software on the PC side has issues with large numbers of keys being reported via USB. As we note on our page, "...many Windows programs have issues when 12 or more keys are reported simultaneously". I have seen the same issue with other USB keyboards that can report this many keys. We are currently investigating to better understand exactly what is going on. But all indications are that the X4 is faithfully reporting keypresses, without ghosting (by any definition), subject to the limitations described on our page.

Anyhow, I hope this helps clear things up...

But there's only one true definition of "Ghosting", and that is when a character appears out of nowhere that you did not press or even _accidentally_ press. This is why they call it "ghosting". I mean, it's a character that's appearing out of nowhere just like real ghosts do in real life (but let's not discuss whether or not ghosts really exist). That's why they decided upon the name or term, and that's why it makes sense.

But Microsoft's trying to say that it's called "ghosting" because some characters don't make it through and get lost and therefore become "ghosts". It just makes me sit there going "huh???" *I mean, it doesn't make sense.* A real-life ghost isn't a ghost because they disappeared and became lost or anything. A real-life ghost is a ghost because they appeared out of nowhere and aren't really supposed to be there.

So again: this isn't Anti-Ghosting. This is "Improved N-Key Rollover". Not only should it be called "Improved N-Key Rollover", but an explanation needs to be written that shows how most USB keyboards are much more limited than the Sidewinder X4 is. Of course, that explanation should also include what NKRO is.

Thanks to this, people like me will end up trying to tell somebody what NKRO is only to have them respond with "You're wrong! That's called Anti-Ghosting! I know because Microsoft says so!"

Can you somehow convince them to correct it?


----------



## PaulHDietz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But there's only one true definition of "Ghosting", and that is when a character appears out of nowhere that you did not press or even _accidentally_ press. This is why they call it "ghosting". I mean, it's a character that's appearing out of nowhere just like real ghosts do in real life (but let's not discuss whether or not ghosts really exist). That's why they decided upon the name or term, and that's why it makes sense.

But Microsoft's trying to say that it's called "ghosting" because some characters don't make it through and get lost and therefore become "ghosts". It just makes me sit there going "huh???" *I mean, it doesn't make sense.* A real-life ghost isn't a ghost because they disappeared and became lost or anything. A real-life ghost is a ghost because they appeared out of nowhere and aren't really supposed to be there.

So again: this isn't Anti-Ghosting. This is "Improved N-Key Rollover". Not only should it be called "Improved N-Key Rollover", but an explanation needs to be written that shows how most USB keyboards are much more limited than the Sidewinder X4 is. Of course, that explanation should also include what NKRO is.

Thanks to this, people like me will end up trying to tell somebody what NKRO is only to have them respond with "You're wrong! That's called Anti-Ghosting! I know because Microsoft says so!"

Can you somehow convince them to correct it?

Again, I completely get what you are saying and I am sympathetic, but our competitors (mass market gaming keyboard manufacturers) have redefined the terminology this way. Personally, I would have preferred a completely new term to avoid confusion. If you look at what the capabilities and limitations of the X4 are:

http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscie...eWinderX4.mspx

you can see it doesn't make sense to call it improved N-key rollover (NKRO). It's clearly not NKRO. I guess you could call it 17-key rollover, but with some limitations and improvements. But that sounds like a marketing nightmare.

For what it's worth, NKRO is a confusing term. Historically, it referred to the ability to correctly report keydown events in the order they are pressed despite typists who didn't release keys before pressing the next one. If you think about it, you could accomplish this on a USB keyboard by only reporting the most recent keys (i.e. stop reporting the less recently pressed keys, even though they are still depressed). Would you consider a keyboard that did this to have NKRO?

As a researcher, I thought it was important to clear up the confusion, and plainly state what the capabilities of SideWinder X4 actually are. While you may disagree with the terminology, at least we state what definition we are using. And just to show you how utterly reasonable we can be, I will see if we can add some information about the conflicting definitions that are in use.

Sound good?


----------



## KipH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PaulHDietz*


Just saw this post and wanted to respond. If you read the information we have up on our site:

http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscie...eWinderX4.mspx

you'll see that we document the limitations of the X4 in some detail. The issue that the article refers to is not a keyboard problem. You hint at the actual problem - i.e. that software on the PC side has issues with large numbers of keys being reported via USB. As we note on our page, "...many Windows programs have issues when 12 or more keys are reported simultaneously". I have seen the same issue with other USB keyboards that can report this many keys. We are currently investigating to better understand exactly what is going on. But all indications are that the X4 is faithfully reporting keypresses, without ghosting (by any definition), subject to the limitations described on our page.

Anyhow, I hope this helps clear things up...


Hi. It does clear things up a lot. I now see when a company choose to use "advertising" or "hype" words instead of using the correct terminology they get into trouble. All this could have been avoided by simply using the correct N-Key rollover terminology. But they lied about hard drive size and got away with it, so this probably wont hurt your sales at all


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PaulHDietz*


Again, I completely get what you are saying and I am sympathetic, but our competitors (mass market gaming keyboard manufacturers) have redefined the terminology this way.


So then Microsoft should step up to the plate and correct them by just being correct and then saying things like, "This is commonly and incorrectly called Ghosting". That way, everyone will know what is being discussed, and then they will be simultaneously educated as to what the truth is. And Microsoft can even include the true definition of Ghosting and they can also explain how there's rarely a need for any Anti-Ghosting these days because Ghosting is actually really rare now.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PaulHDietz*


Personally, I would have preferred a completely new term to avoid confusion. If you look at what the capabilities and limitations of the X4 are:

http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscie...eWinderX4.mspx

you can see it doesn't make sense to call it improved N-key rollover (NKRO). It's clearly not NKRO. I guess you could call it 17-key rollover, but with some limitations and improvements. But that sounds like a marketing nightmare.


So since it's 17-key rollover, then I guess it's Improved Key Rollover. I guess I forgot that "N-Key Rollover" means _any_ key rollover (meaning that if there's a limit, then it's not specific to any keys).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PaulHDietz*


For what it's worth, NKRO is a confusing term. Historically, it referred to the ability to correctly report keydown events in the order they are pressed despite typists who didn't release keys before pressing the next one. If you think about it, you could accomplish this on a USB keyboard by only reporting the most recent keys (i.e. stop reporting the less recently pressed keys, even though they are still depressed). Would you consider a keyboard that did this to have NKRO?


Well, I certainly wouldn't use "Ghosting" or "Anti-Ghosting". I'd just say that it's not full NKRO, but it's better than the standard (or current) and common USB limit.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PaulHDietz*


As a researcher, I thought it was important to clear up the confusion, and plainly state what the capabilities of SideWinder X4 actually are. While you may disagree with the terminology, at least we state what definition we are using. And just to show you how utterly reasonable we can be, I will see if we can add some information about the conflicting definitions that are in use.

Sound good?










To be honest (and I admit that I know it doesn't look this way), I am concerned about it from a sales perspective. For me, I prefer to buy from a company who is willing to correct everyone else by actually _being_ correct and by using their website to educate their potential customers what is correct and what isn't (regardless of what other companies are saying, and regardless of the fact that what they say is popular even though it's incorrect). I like it when I can buy something as simple as a keyboard and get 100% accurate information (and 100% accurate terminology even if it goes against popular belief) because when I can get the truth like that from a product page, I feel 100% confident in that company and in that company's product than I would from another company who is willing to be incorrect just because it's popular.

I feel much more confident buying from a company who is unwilling to lie to me just so that they can get me to buy their product. I mean like I said: all I had to do was read 2 short sentences and I then fully understood the actual differences and actual definitions of NKRO and Ghosting (as well as Anti-Ghosting).

It's difficult to explain what I'm saying, but I strongly prefer to buy from a company who cares about their customers so much that they're willing to educate their customers about these things even though they might have to say things that the majority thinks is false just because of popular belief.

I don't remember which company it was now, but when I was shopping for mechanical keyboards, I saw a company that boldly corrected anyone who was reading it by saying something like, "most companies call it "Anti-Ghosting", but this is what _it really_ is, and here's why" [insert the truth here as opposed to the popular belief].

I know I'm confusing, but I am absolutely confident in what I am at least _trying_ to say. But I've began avoiding companies in the past just because I found out that the information on their product pages (and their so-called educational material) was incorrect just because it was the popular belief.

When it's concerning money, nobody - and I mean *nobody* - likes being lied to.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
Hi. It does clear things up a lot. I now see when a company choose to use "advertising" or "hype" words instead of using the correct terminology they get into trouble. All this could have been avoided by simply using the correct N-Key rollover terminology. *But they lied about hard drive size and got away with it,* so this probably wont hurt your sales at all









I hope you're not talking about Gigabyte vs. Gibibyte. If so, I am disappoint.


----------



## TwoCables

It's not that they really LIED, but it's just that the popular opinion becomes fact even if it's not fact. So when I encounter companies who are willing to go against the popular opinion and expose the lies, I stick with those companies.


----------



## Manyak

Guys - Paul Dietz is an engineer, not the head of marketing. Yet you're acting like he wrote all the advertisements himself.

He's been nice enough to come here and explain the technology that his research has led up to, and I don't think he wants to hear this argument every time he visits. Controller/driver bugs aside, I think it's absolutely great that he made an NKRO matrix without using any diodes. And it's even more impressive that it actually works on a membrane sheet - something that's been impossible until now (ok not impossible, but unfeasible).

So please, don't badger him anymore as if he ran the marketing department.


----------



## TwoCables

I know he doesn't run the marketing department.

Anyway, I admit that I have been feeling like I am being an annoying/irritating jerk, but I'm taking my chances that he might have some pull and might be able to get things changed for the better so that we don't have a future where everyone thinks NKRO is Ghosting just because the big giant Microsoft says so.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I know he doesn't run the marketing department.

Anyway, I admit that I have been feeling like I am being an annoying/irritating jerk, but I'm taking my chances that he might have some pull and might be able to get things changed for the better so that we don't have a future where everyone thinks NKRO is Ghosting just because the big giant Microsoft says so.


Think of it like this: It's like TV manufacturers using 120Hz and 240Hz when it's really just a number they want to stick on it and has _nothing_ to do with the frequency of anything. Yet most people still know what they really mean.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Think of it like this: It's like TV manufacturers using 120Hz and 240Hz when it's really just a number they want to stick on it and has _nothing_ to do with the frequency of anything. Yet most people still know what they really mean.


Hmm. I don't know what they really mean.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Hmm. I don't know what they really mean.


That's because they don't actually mean anything, lol

It's just a way of saying "this TV can make motion smoother". That's it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


That's because they don't actually mean anything, lol

It's just a way of saying "this TV can make motion smoother". That's it.


Well, I know that much. But I guess what I was trying to express is that I'm confused as to how the analogy works. Unfortunately, I don't have an interest in TVs and computer monitors.

However, if I came across a company who was exposing lies about things and showing me things that I would otherwise only find out here on OCN, then I would rather buy from that company than the others. It's a nice feeling buying from a company who shows that they know what they're talking about.

It's also nice because they refuse to let their customers remain ignorant.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Well, I know that much. But I guess what I was trying to express is that I'm confused as to how the analogy works. Unfortunately, I don't have an interest in TVs and computer monitors.

However, if I came across a company who was exposing lies about things and showing me things that I would otherwise only find out here on OCN, then I would rather buy from that company than the others. It's a nice feeling buying from a company who shows that they know what they're talking about.

Let me explain that analogy better:
- 120Hz doesn't refer to the refresh rate
- 120Hz doesn't refer to the speed of the processor that does the "120Hz Processing"
- 120Hz doesn't refer to the frequency of any signal accepted on any input
- 120Hz doesn't refer to the frequency of the AC power

So it effectively refers to nothing. BUT manufacturers use it as "120Hz processing", when really all they're doing is doubling your framerate by adding frames that weren't there before. But still, that only takes it to 48 or 60 FPS.

Saying it's a 120Hz TV is _supposed_ to mean that the panel is refreshed 120 times a second, and that it can accept a 120Hz input. Like when monitors were CRTs, when they said a model went up to 160Hz that meant that the PC could send a 160Hz signal to the monitor, and the monitor's vertical refresh rate (the rate at which it could display full images) was also 160Hz.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Let me explain that analogy better:
- 120Hz doesn't refer to the refresh rate
- 120Hz doesn't refer to the speed of the processor that does the "120Hz Processing"
- 120Hz doesn't refer to the frequency of any signal accepted on any input
- 120Hz doesn't refer to the frequency of the AC power

So it effectively refers to nothing. BUT manufacturers use it as "120Hz processing", when really all they're doing is doubling your framerate by adding frames that weren't there before. But still, that only takes it to 48 or 60 FPS.

Saying it's a 120Hz TV is _supposed_ to mean that the panel is refreshed 120 times a second, and that it can accept a 120Hz input. Like when monitors were CRTs, when they said a model went up to 160Hz that meant that the PC could send a 160Hz signal to the monitor, and the monitor's vertical refresh rate (the rate at which it could display full images) was also 160Hz.

So then it doesn't mean that anymore, correct? So they're just using the only terminology that people understand?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
So then it doesn't mean that anymore, correct? So they're just using the only terminology that people understand?

No, they came up with their own terminology because it marketed better.

People still know what a screen's refresh rate is, and that the term "120Hz" is used incorrectly. I mean, don't you?

Just like people will still most likely know that ghosting really means extra letters being sent even though the companies are using it wrong.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
No, they came up with their own terminology because it marketed better.

People still know what a screen's refresh rate is, and that the term "120Hz" is used incorrectly. I mean, don't you?

Just like people will still most likely know that ghosting really means extra letters being sent even though the companies are using it wrong.

Oh I highly doubt that. I've already found myself in a few arguments (ok, so they were passionate discussions) where I had to tell people what the differences really are, and what Ghosting really is and what NKRO is.

Thanks to all of these big companies, it seems to me that most people think Ghosting is when you can't press more than a certain amount of keys because not all of them register.


----------



## _02

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Oh I highly doubt that. I've already found myself in a few arguments (ok, so they were passionate discussions) where I had to tell people what the differences really are, and what Ghosting really is and what NKRO is.

Thanks to all of these big companies, it seems to me that most people think Ghosting is when you can't press more than a certain amount of keys because not all of them register.


Never trust a company.

Just use them for their products.

It is sad that marketing spreads misinformation though. Because it reaches out to more people than are inspired to look up and learn the proper terminology.


----------



## sotorious

I heard there was a lot of issues with the Das keyboards but the new generations have been worked out? can anyone confrim this?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


I heard there was a lot of issues with the Das keyboards but the new generations have been worked out? can anyone confrim this?


Confirmed.

But take note that the keyboard they have listed as the "Original Das Professional" is actually the Das III, and has the transposition problems you're talking about. Only the Das S is safe.


----------



## sotorious

http://microcenter.com/single_produc...uct_id=0292006

is this safe, and how would you compare it to the filco?


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


http://microcenter.com/single_produc...uct_id=0292006

is this safe, and how would you compare it to the filco?


That is the new generation das board. I havent got a machical board - planning on it tho. All i notice, is that das is shiny and has media buttons (fn). Filco has no media buttons (could via autohotkeys) and IMO it looks better. Filco has what i need though, brown swtiches, das is blue.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234*


That is the new generation das board. I havent got a machical board - planning on it tho. All i notice, is that das is shiny and has media buttons (fn). Filco has no media buttons (could via autohotkeys) and IMO it looks better


Nope, that's the Das III. The new one is the Model S, and has an Fn key where the left meta key is supposed to be.


----------



## sotorious

O damn id rather go with filco but i dont want to wait for shipping. Das i would of been able to pick one right up. Im just hopeing for my keyboard to die so i can just go ahead and order it. But i do love my saitek 2 it has put it some work for me.


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Nope, that's the Das III. The new one is the Model S, and has an Fn key where the left meta key is supposed to be.


oh haha my bad, i assume that professional was the newest verison


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Let me explain that analogy better:
- 120Hz doesn't refer to the refresh rate
- 120Hz doesn't refer to the speed of the processor that does the "120Hz Processing"
- 120Hz doesn't refer to the frequency of any signal accepted on any input
- 120Hz doesn't refer to the frequency of the AC power

So it effectively refers to nothing. BUT manufacturers use it as "120Hz processing", when really all they're doing is doubling your framerate by adding frames that weren't there before. But still, that only takes it to 48 or 60 FPS.

Saying it's a 120Hz TV is _supposed_ to mean that the panel is refreshed 120 times a second, and that it can accept a 120Hz input. Like when monitors were CRTs, when they said a model went up to 160Hz that meant that the PC could send a 160Hz signal to the monitor, and the monitor's vertical refresh rate (the rate at which it could display full images) was also 160Hz.


I would like to clarify this a bit, as it isn't entirely correct. Some TV's use the backlight to make it "appear like" 120/240 hz, but other places do in fact have screens that run at 120hz.

No HDTV I'm aware of can actually accept a 120hz input through any of their inputs, but some of the screens themselves can run at an actual 120hz.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I would like to clarify this a bit, as it isn't entirely correct. Some TV's use the backlight to make it "appear like" 120/240 hz, but other places do in fact have screens that run at 120hz.

No HDTV I'm aware of can actually accept a 120hz input through any of their inputs, but some of the screens themselves can run at an actual 120hz.


Which TVs have a 120Hz refresh rate? So far every one I've seen is "120Hz Processing".

Though either way, if it doesn't accept a 120Hz input then it's still not _really_ a 120Hz TV.


----------



## thiru

So... keyboards?


----------



## mtbiker033

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


O damn id rather go with filco but i dont want to wait for shipping. Das i would of been able to pick one right up. Im just hopeing for my keyboard to die so i can just go ahead and order it. But i do love my saitek 2 it has put it some work for me.


yeah the saitek 2 isn't bad at all for gaming, I like it!

I have just gotten used to playing games on the das and it's been awesome. My fingers would get sore as hell after a couple of hours but I'm used to it now. I love the feel of the keys when I go A - D back and forth, they don't require too much force to push down it's great.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
http://microcenter.com/single_produc...uct_id=0292006

is this safe, and how would you compare it to the filco?

I know that this has been answered already, but another way to tell which model it is, is by looking at their "Mfr Part #", which is "DASK3PRO". Notice the "3" in there.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
O damn id rather go with filco but i dont want to wait for shipping. Das i would of been able to pick one right up. Im just hopeing for my keyboard to die so i can just go ahead and order it. But i do love my saitek 2 it has put it some work for me.

If you can afford to order the Filco _right now_, then do it. You will have it before Thursday or before Friday. Here's the FedEx Ground shipping estimate map for all items shipped from zip code 91765 (which is where Filco says all orders are shipped from):










Of course, these estimates only pertain to the estimated time starting from the point when FedEx takes possession of the package. Filco takes 1-2 business days to get an item in FedEx's hands. So still, even if you order Monday evening, then you still could have the keyboard before Friday (but ordering in the evening is the same as placing the order the next day).

But, these shipments don't move on Saturdays and Sundays, so don't wait any longer; or else the weekend gets in the way thereby adding 2 days to the wait time! I ordered mine last Wednesday at about 8:30 a.m., and it shipped out the next day at 5:35 p.m. So, the estimated delivery date is this Wednesday the 10th.

Now, don't get me wrong: I knew that the weekend would get in the way, so I actually expected the estimated delivery date to be like this Thursday or Friday just to reduce my chances of being disappointed.









So don't wait much longer! Do your "future self" a favor and order it now.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I know that this has been answered already, but another way to tell which model it is, is by looking at their "Mfr Part #", which is "DASK3PRO". Notice the "3" in there.









If you can afford to order the Filco _right now_, then do it. You will have it before Thursday or before Friday. Here's the FedEx Ground shipping estimate map for all items shipped from zip code 91765 (which is where Filco says all orders are shipped from):










Of course, these estimates only pertain to the estimated time starting from the point when FedEx takes possession of the package. Filco takes 1-2 business days to get an item in FedEx's hands. So still, even if you order Monday evening, then you still could have the keyboard before Friday (but ordering in the evening is the same as placing the order the next day).

But, these shipments don't move on Saturdays and Sundays, so don't wait any longer; or else the weekend gets in the way thereby adding 2 days to the wait time! I ordered mine last Wednesday at about 8:30 a.m., and it shipped out the next day at 5:35 p.m. So, the estimated delivery date is this Wednesday the 10th.

Now, don't get me wrong: I knew that the weekend would get in the way, so I actually expected the estimated delivery date to be like this Thursday or Friday just to reduce my chances of being disappointed.









So don't wait much longer! Do your "future self" a favor and order it now.


The federal express delivers on saturdays







.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


The federal express delivers on saturdays







.


My shipment did not move at all on Saturday. The last recorded movement is Friday at 8:42 a.m. This is because Saturday isn't a "business day".









However, I am aware that they do work on Saturdays and that they do deliver on Saturdays. So, I am still half-expecting to see an update in about 6 hours showing some movement on Saturday. But I will not be surprised if there really wasn't any movement at all.


----------



## sotorious

damnit i been spending money like a wild hog out of its cage! i convinced my self a few months back to get one of those keyboards, then unconvinced my self, and no im starting to convince my self again, and damnit you are not making the situation any better.

btw is that map from the filco website? or elitekeyboards.com?

Also is there any local vendors for them? My Credit Card has been compromised. Someone got a hold of it, and made charges the next day after i bought something off of newegg ._. so now i have to wait for another one.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


damnit i been spending money like a wild hog out of its cage! i convinced my self a few months back to get one of those keyboards, then unconvinced my self, and no im starting to convince my self again, and damnit you are not making the situation any better.

btw is that map from the filco website? or elitekeyboards.com?

Also is there any local vendors for them? My Credit Card has been compromised. Someone got a hold of it, and made charges the next day after i bought something off of newegg ._. so now i have to wait for another one.


It's from FedEx's website. I looked the zip code that Elite Keyboards ships their orders out from, and then I looked it up on FedEx's website by going to Ship > Get Rates & Transit Times > Ground Service Maps tab > Entered the zip code > Clicked View map > Took a screenshot, cropped it and then saved it.

If Brian were to put this up on the Elite Keyboards website somewhere, then he'd have to make sure that he always has the most up-to-date map.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
damnit i been spending money like a wild hog out of its cage! i convinced my self a few months back to get one of those keyboards, then unconvinced my self, and no im starting to convince my self again, and damnit you are not making the situation any better.

btw is that map from the filco website? or elitekeyboards.com?

Also is there any local vendors for them? My Credit Card has been compromised. Someone got a hold of it, and made charges the next day after i bought something off of newegg ._. so now i have to wait for another one.

Filco is Japanese. elitekeyoards.com is the _only_ US distributor, and AFAIK he hasn't been putting them in local shops yet.


----------



## rpsgc

I'm really liking my mechanical keyboard







Now to (keep) getting used to its taller keys.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rpsgc* 
I'm really liking my mechanical keyboard







Now to (keep) getting used to its taller keys.

That's another thing about mechanical keyboards that bothered me. Is there a mechanical keyboard available with low profile keys?


----------



## rpsgc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Auld* 
That's another thing about mechanical keyboards that bothered me. Is there a mechanical keyboard available with low profile keys?

I don't think that's possible. Unless it's some sort of mechanical/membrane hybrid.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Cherry MY switches are low-profile (like laptops) but they're fairly rare.


----------



## Manyak

You can get Cherry ML switches here and here. Oh, and here. Just look for any Cherry board with the model number starting in G84.

IMO they aren't really as refined as the other switches, but if that's your thing then go for it.

Edit: MY switches aren't low profile. Only ML.


----------



## v193r

i am so selling my abs m1 and getting the 6gv2 when it comes out. ill be perfect for gaming and cheaper than any other cherry mx blacks.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Edit: MY switches aren't low profile. Only ML.

Whoops, got them mixed up, sorry.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
i am so selling my abs m1 and getting the 6gv2 when it comes out. ill be perfect for gaming and cheaper than any other cherry mx blacks.

You could also get a Cherry MX 11900 (or G80-11900). Normally you can find them on ebay for just a few bucks, but all the ones left are the ridiculously priced ones.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I should've stuck with browns. Mx blues feels a lil too stiff. I keep thinking I'm bottom-ing out.


----------



## TwoCables

I'm speechless. The delivery date (for my new Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO) has been changed from Wednesday the 10th to *TOMORROW!* Oh boy! Oh boy! Oh boy! Oh boy! lol

Yeah, I'm a bit excited. This is too awesome! I think the best part is that I'll definitely be awake when it gets here (I was concerned that I wouldn't be for the Wednesday delivery), and I'll be able to play with it for at_* least *_12 hours before needing to go to sleep! Yeah!!!

And y'know, I could probably even pick it up tonight because it's already at the FedEx facility here in St. Paul! But nah... I _like_ getting packages delivered!

Dude! I think I'm giddy!







hahaha (men don't _get_ giddy)


----------



## ez12a

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I should've stuck with browns. Mx blues feels a lil too stiff. I keep thinking I'm bottom-ing out.


aren't blues supposed to be pretty light?

i picked up a Focus 2001 keyboard with what i've read comes with white ALPS tactile click switches...my Filco is much smoother and easier to type on than the Focus and overall a better typing experience.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ez12a*


aren't blues supposed to be pretty light?

i picked up a Focus 2001 keyboard with what i've read comes with white ALPS tactile click switches...my Filco is much smoother and easier to type on than the Focus and overall a better typing experience.


The Blues have a slightly stiffer Actuation Force of 50g as opposed to the 45g Actuation Force of the Browns.

And by the way: Manyak edited the OP of this thread with even *more* cool stuff! Go Manyak Go!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

you sound like a lil kid cables.


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

not trying to flame this but let me tell a story of what happened today:

So i was telling my friend how I'm planning to get a filco keyboard and he was like "never heard of 
it" and when i told him that it was a mechanical board that is very high quialty compare to normal boards that use domes.

When i showed him the pics of them and told him the prices, he was just like "***, dude seriously, you'd spend $130 on those board? they look so plain!"

We had ongoing discussion how perforance over looks, (even though i think they look sexy), he started to say that boards such as the sidewinderx4 and g110 are just perfetly acceptable, "even better since they come with extra features such as media ***** and macros".

Deeper, he did have a point that mechanical hype is becoming a little crazy because of the fact that they cost soo much and they cant "match" with newer board that are on the market today...
Dont any of you guys ever think that the hype is causing little craze? Like some people just want a board that works and some threads on here ask for a keyboard, but many of us say "go mechical"
(i do agree g15 and razers are piece a crap)
[this hasnt changed my plans of getting the filco though







]


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


you sound like a lil kid cables.


Thank you!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234*


not trying to flame this but let me tell a story of what happened today:

So i was telling my friend how I'm planning to get a filco keyboard and he was like "never heard of 
it" and when i told him that it was a mechanical board that is very high quialty compare to normal boards that use domes.

When i showed him the pics of them and told him the prices, he was just like "***, dude seriously, you'd spend $130 on those board? they look so plain!"


Like I've said before: those keyboards are kinda like a pile of poop with a really pretty wrapper.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234*


We had ongoing discussion how perforance over looks, (even though i think they look sexy), he started to say that boards such as the sidewinderx4 and g110 are just perfetly acceptable, "even better since they come with extra features such as media ***** and macros".


Little does he realize it, he's really close to crossing the line and saying that function follows form. When the beauty and the features are removed, all that's left are cheap rubber dome switches that don't last very long and don't have a consistent feel from key to key.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234*


Deeper, he did have a point that mechanical hype is becoming a little crazy because of the fact that they cost soo much and they cant "match" with newer board that are on the market today...


When somebody doesn't understand something, they will do almost anything and say almost anything to put it down and make it seem like crap.

But in contrast: when somebody knows the truth, they will call everything like they see it; they'll say that the crap is crap, and that the gold is gold as opposed to not _understanding_ why the gold is so awesome and calling it crap.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234*


Dont any of you guys ever think that the hype is causing little craze? Like some people just want a board that works and some threads on here ask for a keyboard, but many of us say "go mechical"
(i do agree g15 and razers are piece a crap)
[this hasnt changed my plans of getting the filco though







]


Well, what I am liking here is that, due to the increasing popularity of mechanical keyboards, I think we may be looking at a future where we'll have good mechanical keyboards that also have backlighting, media keys and even fancier looks without being as expensive as they would be today.


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Well, what I am liking here is that, due to the increasing popularity of mechanical keyboards, I think we may see more and more with backlighting, media keys and even fancier looks without being as expensive as they would be today.


This is what im hoping to see in the future as well... more production, cheaper prices maybe


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

I'm so psyched; I managed to find a Filco Majestouch w/ Brown switches and NKRO for $110


----------



## yawnbox

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Dude! I think I'm giddy!







hahaha (men don't _get_ giddy)

I sure was giddy









Quote:


Originally Posted by *ez12a* 
aren't blues supposed to be pretty light?

I think mine are light, but I could understand that something could be lighter. I have not typed with browns, but I hope to someday. I love my blues!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
And by the way: Manyak edited the OP of this thread with even *more* cool stuff! Go Manyak Go!









Wow Manyak, amazing stuff. I'm happy we have such dedicated members helping others. Cheers!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234* 
This is what im hoping to see in the future as well... more production, cheaper prices maybe









Yeah! And I was just thinking that even if the demand for mechanical switches increases substantially, then we can still rest assured that they are still going to be far superior to the "common" switches like Rubber Domes! I mean, I am afraid that if the demand gets high enough, then the quality of the switches will be reduced due to being even more mass-produced than they are now.

Of course, it'll probably go the other direction: we'll start seeing cheap knock-offs that are almost no better in quality and durability and feel than Rubber Domes. lol

Quote:


Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d* 
I'm so psyched; I managed to find a Filco Majestouch w/ Brown switches and NKRO for $110









What?! Where? That's awesome!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yawnbox* 
I sure was giddy









Yeah, like a school girl right? Ahem. Um... I was. I'm still remembering it! It was hilarious! I hope that I don't get caught doing that some day.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yawnbox* 
Wow Manyak, amazing stuff. I'm happy we have such dedicated members helping others. Cheers!

Amen!


----------



## pow3rtr1p

Still waiting on a dang Otaku Cherry Blue...


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234*


Deeper, he did have a point that mechanical hype is becoming a little crazy because of the fact that they cost soo much and they cant "match" with newer board that are on the market today...
Dont any of you guys ever think that the hype is causing little craze? Like some people just want a board that works and some threads on here ask for a keyboard, but many of us say "go mechical"
(i do agree g15 and razers are piece a crap)
[this hasnt changed my plans of getting the filco though







]


I agree that some people just looking for a cheap keyboard are probably not going to be interested in a more expensive mechanical board. It's when people start spending as much on a Razer or Logitech as they would on a Filco, Das, or Deck that I start prodding them towards a mechanical board.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

What keyswitches does the Cherry G84-4100PPAUS use?


----------



## sotorious

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


i am so selling my abs m1 and getting the 6gv2 when it comes out. ill be perfect for gaming and cheaper than any other cherry mx blacks.


I saw an article about this. i forgot how much they are going to be and when are they going to be released? also what kind of switches are they?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234* 
Deeper, he did have a point that mechanical hype is becoming a little crazy because of the fact that they cost soo much and they cant "match" with newer board that are on the market today...
Dont any of you guys ever think that the hype is causing little craze? Like some people just want a board that works and some threads on here ask for a keyboard, but many of us say "go mechical"
(i do agree g15 and razers are piece a crap)
[this hasnt changed my plans of getting the filco though







]

Before you read the rest of this post, understand this: when talking about rubber domes, I'm usually referring to the mass marketed crap like G15s. There _are_ high quality rubber dome keyboards out there, but let's not complicate things or I'm going to have to write a thesis paper to explain it all lol.

Now, let's look at this completely objectively for a second. Let's ignore all the subjective stuff (looks, feel, key shape, and so on) and talk about actual, physical differences.

Mass Marketed Keyboards:
+ Almost all have media buttons
+ Some boards have LCDs
= Some boards have extra keys for macros
- Domes are generally rated for 5 million keypresses, but usually that's being generous
- LED lit boards use diffuser sheets so that only a few LEDs can light up the entire board
- Almost exclusively use thin, flimsier plastics, such as PVC
- Only one board has anything resembling NKRO, and it's buggy
- Key printing is pad printed, or in the case of backlit ones, a surface coating
- Light weight causes the keyboards to slide around on the desk a lot, especially as the keyboard gets older (the rubber feet become smoother)
- One non-working switch renders the keyboard useless
- Cheap plastics and construction causes keyboards to warp and not sit flat on the desk

Mechanical Keyboards (and other high quality ones):
+ Switches are rated for up to 100 million keypresses
+ Generally use thicker, stronger plastics, such as ABS
+ Often come with a steel plate as reinforcement
+ Generally use Lasered or Dyesub key printing
+ LED lit boards use 1 LED per key, resulting in much better lighting
+ Readily available with NKRO
+ Heavy weight keeps the keyboard from sliding around while typing, even after decades
+ Strong plastics prevent keyboard from warping and wobbling on the desk
+ Busted switches can be replaced for a few cents, or swapped with a never-used key (like scroll lock)
= Some boards have extra keys for macros
- Don't have dedicated media buttons
- No models with LCDs available

Now, look at this financially for a minute here. On average, rubber dome keyboards need to be replaced at least once during the lifetime of a PC (around 4 years). Now, until today, I have yet to hear anyone say that they _need_ to replace their mechanical board - even ones from the '80s. So let's give mechanical keyboards the theoretical lifespan of 20 years (100 million keypresses vs 5 million, so 5 times as long).

If you buy rubber dome boards for $50 each, in 20 years you will have spent $250 on keyboards. But if you buy a single mechanical board for $150, you just saved yourself $100. Even if down the line you decide you want to get a new keyboard just for the hell of it, your old board can now be used on other computers (and will probably outlive _you_), or you can sell it for about half the price you bought it for (though it's usually more). So say you sell it for $75 and buy another one for another $150, that's $225 total on two boards. That's _still_ less than you would pay if you just keep buying rubber domes and throwing them away once they're through.

Of course, mechanical boards are not for everyone, because at the end of the day keyboards are more of a personal, subjective purchase. But it's really the other way around - the mass marketed keyboards can't match mechanical boards' quality. It's like comparing a Honda Accord to a Lamborghini Murcielago. The Accord has a couple of features the Lambo doesn't (like rear seats, ipod integration, and so on), but the Lambo still has better core components (engine, cooling, ...). I only try to point people to keyboards designed by engineers, not marketing directors, even if they're just looking for a cheap rubber dome board. This way they at least get their money's worth.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
What keyswitches does the Cherry G84-4100PPAUS use?

All G84 boards use ML switches.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
All G84 boards use ML switches.

Thanks... Just posted on GeekHack too though.









Are they ML Black? Or are there other ML switches?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Thanks... Just posted on GeekHack too though.









Are they ML Black? Or are there other ML switches?

Nope, there are only ML Blacks.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234*


This is what im hoping to see in the future as well... more production, cheaper prices maybe










The only problem is noise. A loud keyboard will scare most people away pretty fast. They'll dismiss it as an old clunky keyboard and not actually give it an honest try.

Honestly, I'm starting to appreciate more and more the tacky mod I did to my black alps. I think I got really lucky. Especially after reading person after person looking for a keyswitch with short, quiet travel that is stiff enough not to bottom out.

Seriously, I type faster on it than on my thinkpad. I typed slower on the original switches because they are so easy to bottom out. I think that is a lot of the reason for me anyway. The thinkpad scissor switches have to be bottomed out, and the original black alps were hard not to. If you have to bottom out each key press it's kind of like tripping.

Compare it to running. If you bottom out the keys, it is like suddenly hitting the ground, stopping, and having to get up and start moving again, instead of lightly touching the ground and having your foot be forced back up.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


The only problem is noise. A loud keyboard will scare most people away pretty fast. They'll dismiss it as an old clunky keyboard and not actually give it an honest try.

Honestly, I'm starting to appreciate more and more the tacky mod I did to my black alps. I think I got really lucky. Especially after reading person after person looking for a keyswitch with short, quiet travel that is stiff enough not to bottom out.

Seriously, I type faster on it than on my thinkpad. I typed slower on the original switches because they are so easy to bottom out. I think that is a lot of the reason for me anyway. The thinkpad scissor switches have to be bottomed out, and the original black alps were hard not to. If you have to bottom out each key press it's kind of like tripping.

Compare it to running. If you bottom out the keys, it is like suddenly hitting the ground, stopping, and having to get up and start moving again, instead of lightly touching the ground and having your foot be forced back up.


They'll probably answer the call by coating the bottom of the keycaps with some rubber or something so that when they hit the board, they won't make the big clacky sound. Or, they might put that rubber on the board itself so that the keys hit rubber instead of the plastic of the keyboard's body.

I'm not saying that this won't be expensive, though. I imagine that detailing like this would make them way more expensive.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Nope, there are only ML Blacks.


Wait, I just realized, are those the same ML Blacks as in the Optimus maximus?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


Wait, I just realized, are those the same ML Blacks as in the Optimus maximus?


Correct.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Hey guys, quick: I've an offer from someone to sell me a Filco Majestouch w/ Cherry Brown switches and NKRO for $100+shipping, but I just bought myself an iOne M10 Scorpius last night for $60.

Should I go for the Filco and sell the M10, or just keep the M10?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d* 
Hey guys, quick: I've an offer from someone to sell me a Filco Majestouch w/ Cherry Brown switches and NKRO, but I just bought myself an iOne M10 Scorpius last night for $60.

Should I go for the Filco and sell the M10, or just keep the M10?

I know it's a bit early to tell, but are you currently experiencing any rollover problems with the M10?

Also, do you like the MX Blues?


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I know it's a bit early to tell, but are you currently experiencing any rollover problems with the M10?

Also, do you like the MX Blues?

I actually love the MX Blues, but my only concern with them is that the sound might annoy my GF.

I'm also a bit lost as to the difference between the Filco and M10, as the Filco costs more retail-wise but I have no idea why.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d* 
Hey guys, quick: I've an offer from someone to sell me a Filco Majestouch w/ Cherry Brown switches and NKRO for $100+shipping, but I just bought myself an iOne M10 Scorpius last night for $60.

Should I go for the Filco and sell the M10, or just keep the M10?

That's really entirely up to you to decide. But if I was in your situation, I'd probably buy the Filco just for the hell of trying out the browns and checking out the quality, and then sell/return the keyboard I liked less. Or maybe even do a switch swap between them if I wanted the Filco case but Blue switches.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Has anyone actually bought or used that keyboard yet in the world?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Has anyone actually bought or used that keyboard yet in the world?


The Optimus Maximus?

If so, then Chris Perillo had one (I mean, I don't know if he still has it). Here's his unboxing video:

http://www.youtube.com/user/lockergn.../5/dV0k1KCQyyI


----------



## orientye

Thanks, Manyak! bought myself the Steelseries 7G for starcraft, love the way it bounces me back.








APM from 200+- Lycosa to a hefty 280 -300 with the 7G!


----------



## TwoCables

I've been typing on my new Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO (linked for the curious) for about 10 minutes now, and each keystroke is pure joy for me. Actually, I'm finding it impossible to verbalize just how happy I am right now. I'm almost reacting the same way that I think I would if I were to meet my favorite celebrity (or better yet, my favorite drummer): each keystroke is keeping my palms kind of sweaty, and the subtle little clicks of the switches kinda makes my heart flutter. This is pure typing bliss. Yeah. I'm a geek. hehehe I'm nearly getting wood over a keyboard. lol

Y'know, I'm liking this a little more than I _thought_ that I would!! This keyboard is absolutely outstanding. I am completely in love with this keyboard, and now that it's actually in my possession, I am truly realizing that what I said a while back is totally true: I will not miss the Lycosa one bit.

This keyboard makes the Lycosa feel like a really cheap child's toy. And y'know what? I admit that I felt that it was really easy to type on the Lycosa, but this thing *crushes* the Lycosa in that respect. However, I am grateful to my experience on the Lycosa because I'm not bottoming out as much as I thought I would. I would say that about 75% of my keystrokes are not bottomed-out. That's because the Lycosa really is easier to type on than any keyboard I've had in the past. It caused me to type more gently which was perfect training for this really-awesome Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO.

This little mini-review would be much better than this, but there's one problem: this keyboard is leaving me speechless and it's basically taking my breath away! I just wish I could find the words to feel satisfied that I have successfully expressed how awesome this keyboard is for me.

*Edit:* Y'know, it's also much quieter than the Lycosa when I'm not bottoming out!


----------



## IEATFISH

Nice, right? I've really liked mine.


----------



## Manyak

LOL dude, I know exactly how you feel. It's basically what I was like a while back when I first bought (well, _re_-bought) a Model M. I really could not believe that I had switched from a Model M to some rubber domes 20 or so years ago. I was pretty much slapping myself because I felt really, really dumb for not even paying attention.

You know what's absolutely amazing by the way? If you try and go back to your Lycosa in a few days it's going to feel very different than how it used to.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *IEATFISH*


Nice, right? I've really liked mine.


If I had every single word in the entire English language mastered in my vocabulary, then I *still* wouldn't be able to properly explain how much I like this keyboard. Not even an "How I love thee" poem would suffice. I'm realizing now that this is truly something that has to be experienced in order to be understood.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


LOL dude, I know exactly how you feel. It's basically what I was like a while back when I first bought (well, _re_-bought) a Model M. I really could not believe that I had switched from a Model M to some rubber domes 20 or so years ago. I was pretty much slapping myself because I felt really, really dumb for not even paying attention.

You know what's absolutely amazing by the way? If you try and go back to your Lycosa in a few days it's going to feel very different than how it used to.


Oh dude, I should so do that!! That's a great idea! Thank you!


----------



## Manyak

By the way I thought I'd share:

I picked up a really, really old "netbook" (Pentium 1), and I'm going to be upgrading it by sticking a Pico-ITX board inside of it. Assuming it does actually have the room for it of course. But if it does, part of the mod is going to be making my own PS/2 keyboard and mouse controllers, and if it's deep enough, possibly making the keyboard mechanical too. Though I doubt there's enough room for even ML switches.

I'm really, really hoping that it'll work. But I won't know until it arrives.


----------



## TwoCables

Yep. I'm posting more love for my new Tactile Click NKRO.









I was just thinking about something as I was typing: the subtle click of the Cherry MX Blues is so crisp! I absolutely love it! Man, I am so glad I bought this!!

Manyak: I'm very grateful that you are here and that you created this thread. So, I guess I owe you one!


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Yep. I'm posting more love for my new Tactile Click NKRO.









I was just thinking about something as I was typing: the subtle click of the Cherry MX Blues is so crisp! I absolutely love it! Man, I am so glad I bought this!!

Manyak: I'm very grateful that you are here and that you created this thread. So, I guess I owe you one!

lol finding any excuse to type on it more, i see?

ditto, i absolutely love the feel of the blues in my Filco. smooth (besides the click) typing action.


----------



## Manyak

No need to thank me, just spread the word


----------



## xdivenx

Hey guys,

I am stuck between the Browns and the Blues for the Majestouch Tenkeyless board (87 key). I would like to keep noise a bit lower, but is it worth giving up the clickyness of the blues for gaming situations? I have read through your guide (wonderful imo) and can't decide.

Thanks.


----------



## noons

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xdivenx*


Hey guys,

I am stuck between the Browns and the Blues for the Majestouch Tenkeyless board (87 key). I would like to keep noise a bit lower, but is it worth giving up the clickyness of the blues for gaming situations? I have read through your guide (wonderful imo) and can't decide.

Thanks.


I know dude I know... I was in the same situation myself was so torn, but just ended up getting the blues. Hopefully I dont regret it especially with the hefty cost. Mine should be arriving Friday according to the tracking info. I figure with my computer being in a different room the noise shouldnt be a problem. Ahh well no going back now anyway!


----------



## xdivenx

Well let me know how you like the blues. Regardless I think both boards are great, but when I am spending so much money on one, I want what will suit me the best.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I game on a Model M, which has buckling springs. It's rather louder than the MX Blues and it's fine, not a huge distraction or handicap, but... Well, before I got my headphones I _was_ seriously considering getting a different keyboard. And now I've found a board with ML switches for cheap that would be perfect gaming, assuming I win the auction.

Basically, if you game or listen to music the MX Browns would be preferred, but the MX Blues would still be ok.

Also: glad you've joined the cult, TwoCables.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ez12a* 
lol finding any excuse to type on it more, i see?

Absolutely!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *ez12a* 
ditto, i absolutely love the feel of the blues in my Filco. smooth (besides the click) typing action.

I'm starting to wish that I had a really massive post or private message or e-mail to type up. Oh well. That'll come soon enough.







*Edit:* oh look! It happened anyway! hehe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
No need to thank me, just spread the word









Oh, thank you for reminding me. I have to send a private message to VitaminX.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *xdivenx* 
Hey guys,

I am stuck between the Browns and the Blues for the Majestouch Tenkeyless board (87 key). I would like to keep noise a bit lower, but is it worth giving up the clickyness of the blues for gaming situations? I have read through your guide (wonderful imo) and can't decide.

Thanks.

To my surprise, the actual "click" is much quieter than I thought it would be. It's certainly much quieter than the clunk/clack of the keycaps when bottoming out. Instead, this click noise is subtle, very crisp, and very pleasing. I'd like to borrow the description of the Buckling Spring switch and say that the Cherry MX Blues provide _"a satisfying click"_. But it's certainly not the kind of keyboard I would like to use if I were only 2-3 feet away from somebody who's trying to sleep. Even the bottoming out is a little too loud for that. But I think that with careful and gentle typing, one can be both fast and relatively silent. I can already hear that if I practice carefully enough, then I can even avoid bottoming out the Spacebar, which is the loudest key on the whole board. But the board's body is so solid that even bottoming out the Spacebar provides a pleasing, solid sound. Bottoming out the Spacebar almost has the sound of solid wood. Well, ok: not really. But I think that there's a subtle hint of that tone.

In other words, after watching all of the YouTube videos, I would say that the only way the Tactile Touch will be quieter than the Tactile Click is if the keys are never bottomed out. I mean, again: the sound of bottoming out the keys is louder than the [satisfying] click of the MX Blues. But that's depending on how hard you bottom out: gently bottoming out produces a sound that's about equal to the click.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *noons* 
I know dude I know... I was in the same situation myself was so torn, but just ended up getting the blues. Hopefully I dont regret it especially with the hefty cost. Mine should be arriving Friday according to the tracking info. I figure with my computer being in a different room the noise shouldnt be a problem. Ahh well no going back now anyway!

Check out my description above to see what the click of the Blues may be like for you.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I game on a Model M, which has buckling springs. It's rather louder than the MX Blues and it's fine, not a huge distraction or handicap, but... Well, before I got my headphones I _was_ seriously considering getting a different keyboard. And now I've found a board with ML switches for cheap that would be perfect gaming, assuming I win the auction.

Basically, if you game or listen to music the MX Browns would be preferred, but the MX Blues would still be ok.

I concur. Now that I own the Tactile Click, I can safely say that the click of the Blues is just a little mechanical, high-pitched - but subtle - click sound (it's also quite satisfying).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Also: glad you've joined the cult, TwoCables.









Thank you! Me too!!


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Don't forget to update your specs. You still have the Lycosa listed.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Don't forget to update your specs. You still have the Lycosa listed.









lol that's a first. I guess that just demonstrates how excited I am about this! I mean, I've always been absolutely on top of every subtle change to my sig rig, and so this really is the first time that I've slipped up. hehe

So, thank you very much for telling me!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Yep. I'm posting more love for my new Tactile Click NKRO.









I was just thinking about something as I was typing: the subtle click of the Cherry MX Blues is so crisp! I absolutely love it! Man, I am so glad I bought this!!

Manyak: I'm very grateful that you are here and that you created this thread. So, I guess I owe you one!

"Thank you manyak for helping me spend 130 dollars" - two cables

"Thank you manyak for helping me spend 240 dollars" - me.


----------



## IEATFISH

You can add my $130 to that list too.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
"Thank you manyak for helping me spend 130 dollars" - two cables

"Thank you manyak for helping me spend 240 dollars" - me.

$240? Wait a sec! Are you going to buy one of those Topre boards?! You bastid.









By the way, were you asking about the Optimus Maximus earlier?

*Edit:* actually, it was $145.00 shipped, plus $4.00 for the keycap puller. So the total bill was $149.00 shipped. I think that this might be the best computer-related purchase that I've ever made.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
"Thank you manyak for helping me spend 130 dollars" - two cables

"Thank you manyak for helping me spend 240 dollars" - me.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *IEATFISH* 
You can add my $130 to that list too.









And my $20.









Though I may add another ~$15 in approximately 36 hours.


----------



## Tator Tot

Oh man.. I don't want to know what I've spent on boards in the last year...

Filco Majestouch Tactile Click Otaku, Tactile Touch, & Linear Force, ABS M1, Cherry G80-3600, and IBM Model M

That's alot of boards. And only 3 I really enjoyed (Otaku, M1, G80)


----------



## sotorious

*TwoCables* Is there anything negative about that keyboard and the cherry blues, besides the blues being a bit of a loud click?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
*TwoCables* Is there anything negative about that keyboard and the cherry blues, besides the blues being a bit of a loud click?

About the Filco? Only that the lettering wears off because it's pad printed, and the keys become shiny.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


*TwoCables* Is there anything negative about that keyboard and the cherry blues, besides the blues being a bit of a loud click?


My Filco Otaku has no problems at all. It's a special Edition of the Tactile Click NKRO. 
I love the board (minus blue switches, they're not for me.)

And like Manyak said, the keys become shinier after use.


----------



## skcheng

New mechanical keyboard fan!! Interesting that something as seeemingly simple as a keyboard can generate such a fan base.

Has anyone here successfully taken double shot keys and swapped them onto a Filco or a Das? I really like the thicker/more damped keys and I like the idea that they will never wear out or fade.

And which key puller is recommended? The one sold by Filco and Elitekeyboards?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *skcheng*


New mechanical keyboard fan!! Interesting that something as seeemingly simple as a keyboard can generate such a fan base.

Has anyone here successfully taken double shot keys and swapped them onto a Filco or a Das? I really like the thicker/more damped keys and I like the idea that they will never wear out or fade.

And which key puller is recommended? The one sold by Filco and Elitekeyboards?


You can take keys from any board with Cherry MX switches and swap them in, the stems are all the same.

And yes that key puller is fine, although so are all the others







. Just don't try and pry them off with a screwdriver, you might break the stem off in the process if you're too rough.


----------



## sotorious

But the lettering does not wear off correct?


----------



## skcheng

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


You can take keys from any board with Cherry MX switches and swap them in, the stems are all the same.

And yes that key puller is fine, although so are all the others







. Just don't try and pry them off with a screwdriver, you might break the stem off in the process if you're too rough.



What are the "others" keypullers? And would the Filco Majestouch be a nice choice for a key swap? I'm hoping to get some standardized keys, space bar etc... so that most/all of the keys can be exchanged. And I'm also wondering if the heights and actuation will change with different keys. I'm sure someone here has swapped in double shots?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *skcheng*


What are the "others" keypullers? And would the Filco Majestouch be a nice choice for a key swap? I'm hoping to get some standardized keys, space bar etc... so that most/all of the keys can be exchanged. And I'm also wondering if the heights and actuation will change with different keys. I'm sure someone has swapped here has swapped in double shots?


Yeah, I still need to put that in the guide.... Maybe I'll do that now, I haven't worked on it in a few days.


----------



## skcheng

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Yeah, I still need to put that in the guide.... Maybe I'll do that now, I haven't worked on it in a few days.











Okay, which one is the easiest and/or most efficient key puller? And where might I purchase the puller?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skcheng* 
Okay, which one is the easiest and/or most efficient key puller? And where might I purchase the puller?

I find the Filco one the easiest TBH. When you get it just bend the wires a little bit further apart, and then it slides right on the key and you pull right up.


----------



## olli3

I made quite a nice key puller out of 2 paperclips, I just bent them into a triangle shape and held them both with pliers so its like the key puller 2nd from the right in the above picture. Got all my keys off my sgi at101 in no time


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


*TwoCables* Is there anything negative about that keyboard and the cherry blues, besides the blues being a bit of a loud click?


Believe it or not, the click is not loud at all (I said this a few times in my most recent replies to this thread, so check them out because you may enjoy what I said). The sound of the keycaps bottoming out is actually louder than the click of the switch. When the keycaps are only _gently_ bottomed out (such as bottoming out while trying to avoid bottoming out), then the volume of both sounds is about equal - or rather, it's difficult to tell which is louder. Either way, I feel that the sound of the click is subtle, very crisp, and very satisfying. I wouldn't have it any other way.

To put it in another way: if you're not bottoming out the keycaps against the body of the keyboard, then the keyboard is very quiet because all that's left is the subtle click. It's not quiet like a rubber dome, but I'm just trying to drive the point home about how quiet I think the click is as opposed to what I thought it would be like. It's subtle. It's also *much* easier to type on the Tactile Click than it was on the Razer Lycosa, and so I know I'm facing a future where I can type so lightly that I _never_ bottom out.

If you were to bring the Tactile Click to Best Buy, set it upon the shelf next to the other keyboards and then compare the typing noise to the others, then you would find that the only way that this keyboard is louder than the others is when bottoming out (in the same way you have to bottom out the non-mechanical boards - by typing kinda hard, especially in comparison to how light one can type on the Cherry MX Blues). Otherwise, without bottoming out, you'd be finding yourself straining to hear the clicks of the switches in the louder environment of Best Buy. Even as I'm sitting here in this dead-silent room of mine, it's not really that loud at all. It's just a very pleasing and subtle (and crisp) click.

To finalize this, one of my requirements when I was looking for a new keyboard was that it had to be silent (much like those really quiet laptops). With that in mind, I am 100% happy with the Tactile Click NKRO. As I mentioned in my most recent posts: I wouldn't change anything about this keyboard at all. Actually, I would increase the cable length to around 6 or 6.5 feet (7 feet might be a bit too much) from the current 4.9 feet just to be more universally compatible with all computer setups. But other than that, I wouldn't change anything else.

Now that I own this keyboard, I'd like to make an analogy here and compare it to all other keyboards - especially the Lycosa: the difference is like comparing a child's pretend tool set to a man's real-life, high-quality, high-end professional tool set.


----------



## TwoCables

Here's what some guy named "dabeshu" from YouTube has to say about the Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO:

_"The sound is as crisp as a dry leaf in the desert, and the feeling, i would say, is up there in the God-Tier with kneading a natural, high-quality pair of a pregnant woman's breasts."_

I feel exactly the same way about the way this keyboard feels. But the sound? Well, I'm not as good with words as this guy, but using a dry leaf as an analogy throws me off since that's a _dead_ leaf. But I can't come up with anything better!

Here's the video:


----------



## yellowtoblerone

haha what a discription. He should get a bung for such advertisment.

I've sense gotten used to the blue tactile clicks. The biggest issue for me is, I used to keep on bottoming out on both browns and blues, even more on blues. I would like the least amount of energy as possible when typing.

And yah, 240 since I got the irock browns first before trying out the filco blues.

isn't the maximus keyboard around 1k each due to the lcd screen it has on the keys?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


haha what a discription. He should get a bung for such advertisment.

I've sense gotten used to the blue tactile clicks. The biggest issue for me is, I used to keep on bottoming out on both browns and blues, even more on blues. I would like the least amount of energy as possible when typing.

And yah, 240 since I got the irock browns first before trying out the filco blues.

isn't the maximus keyboard around 1k each due to the lcd screen it has on the keys?


Except it's not LCDs, it's OLEDs.


----------



## drjoey1500

Lol wow. All I have to say about the maximus is blank keys ftw.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
haha what a discription. He should get a bung for such advertisment.

What's a "bung"?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
I've sense gotten used to the blue tactile clicks. The biggest issue for me is, I used to keep on bottoming out on both browns and blues, even more on blues. I would like the least amount of energy as possible when typing.

Yep! That's one of the things I'm loving about my new Tactile Click!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
And yah, 240 since I got the irock browns first before trying out the filco blues.

Oh doh! I didn't consider that it was more than one purchase.







my bad.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
isn't the maximus keyboard around 1k each due to the lcd screen it has on the keys?

Did you watch the unboxing video I posted?


----------



## Manyak

Elitekeyboards got a crapton of Otaku models in stock, and they're using softer LEDs (as Brian put it, "no more signalling extraterrestrial life").

Majestouch Tactile Touch NKRO "Otaku"
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...d=fkbn104mnpek

Tenkeyless Majestouch Tactile Click "Otaku"
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...d=fkbn87mcnpek

Tenkeyless Majestouch Tactile Click "Otaku" White
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...d=fkbn87mcewek

Tenkeyless Majestouch Tactile Touch "Otaku" White
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...id=fkbn87mewek

But best of all: replacement printed keycaps!
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...id=fkb10487prn


----------



## skcheng

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Well if you don't want to pay for a Topre board, you can wait and get this at the end of the year:












Very cool keyboard!! I'm wondering what the price will be??


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Elitekeyboards got a crapton of Otaku models in stock, and they're using softer LEDs (as Brian put it, "no more signalling extraterrestrial life").

Majestouch Tactile Touch NKRO "Otaku"
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...d=fkbn104mnpek

Tenkeyless Majestouch Tactile Click "Otaku"
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...d=fkbn87mcnpek

Tenkeyless Majestouch Tactile Click "Otaku" White
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...d=fkbn87mcewek

Tenkeyless Majestouch Tactile Touch "Otaku" White
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...id=fkbn87mewek

But best of all: replacement printed keycaps!
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...id=fkb10487prn


Oh dude. Printed replacement keycaps for when mine get faded, nasty and shiny. Woo-hoo!


----------



## The Rider

Just took delivery of my Filco tenkeyless NKRO w/ brown Cherrys. Loving it!

Now just need to work on my 15wpm hunt & peck technique









Can somebody link me to the software that remaps the keys so I can disable the left windows key?

Ta, muchly.


----------



## Izvire

Quote:



Originally Posted by *The Rider*


Just took delivery of my Filco tenkeyless NKRO w/ brown Cherrys. Loving it!

Now just need to work on my 15wpm hunt & peck technique









Can somebody link me to the software that remaps the keys so I can disable the left windows key?

Ta, muchly.


Here, AutoHotKey.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *The Rider*


Just took delivery of my Filco tenkeyless NKRO w/ brown Cherrys. Loving it!

Now just need to work on my 15wpm hunt & peck technique









Can somebody link me to the software that remaps the keys so I can disable the left windows key?

Ta, muchly.


Welcome to the club, so-to-speak!! Filco Majestouch Tactile Click/Touch NKRO ftw!!!!!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Welcome to the club, so-to-speak!! Filco Majestouch Tactile Click/Touch NKRO ftw!!!!!


Linear touch FTW!


----------



## IEATFISH

Rubber do...nvm...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Linear touch FTW!


You're right! I meant _"Filco Majestouch FTW!"_









Quote:



Originally Posted by *IEATFISH*


Rubber do...nvm...


Oh, I almost grabbed a few stones and a tomato.


----------



## Kaankin

Hey guys I'm finally home and working on my tenkeyless cherry browns, love it! One thing thou I want to use a cherry number keypad that I found but I am using the ps/2 for the keyboard. My question is can I use the ps/2 mouse connection on my computer to use the keypad?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kaankin*


Hey guys I'm finally home and working on my tenkeyless cherry browns, love it! One thing thou I want to use a cherry number keypad that I found but I am using the ps/2 for the keyboard. My question is can I use the ps/2 mouse connection on my computer to use the keypad?


Can the keypad connect to USB? I mean, will you need NKRO with the keypad? Is the keypad even capable of NKRO?


----------



## fishman78

I'll join, I have a scorpion one. It's okay, blue switches, would've prefered the brown myself.... But, the price was right. Can't go back to my old rubber dome keyboard. It is a bit of a pain comming to work and using a dommer, but i'll survive


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fishman78*


I'll join, I have a scorpion one. It's okay, blue switches, would've prefered the brown myself.... But, the price was right. Can't go back to my old rubber dome keyboard. It is a bit of a pain comming to work and using a dommer, but i'll survive










Ooo it sounds like it's time to invest in another mechanical for work! I know I would.


----------



## fishman78

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Ooo it sounds like it's time to invest in another mechanical for work! I know I would.


Yeah, but noise from this one is loud! My wife can always tell when i'm typing and she's a story up









Are the brown switches that much quiter than the blue?


----------



## Kaankin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Can the keypad connect to USB? I mean, will you need NKRO with the keypad? Is the keypad even capable of NKRO?


well mainly I would connect it for work only i don't need for gaming or anything else, it's a cherry brwn switch keypad made in Germany # G80-5700HAAUS/04.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fishman78*


Yeah, but noise from this one is loud! My wife can always tell when i'm typing and she's a story up









Are the brown switches that much quiter than the blue?


If I were to just compare the Majestouch Tactile Touch to the Tactile Click, then I would say that there are only 2 ways the Tactile Touch can be quieter than the Click:

Don't bottom out the keycaps against the board.
No click of the switch (just the bump).
See, I'm finding that as long as I don't bottom out with the Tactile Click, then it's very quiet since the click of the Cherry MX Blue switches is pretty quiet. I mean, it's just a subtle click that is quieter than the sound of bottoming out the keycaps.

However, it also helps to use the keyboard in a carpeted room.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kaankin*


well mainly I would connect it for work only i don't need for gaming or anything else, it's a cherry brwn switch keypad made in Germany # G80-5700HAAUS/04.


Does it use the USB interface?


----------



## Kaankin

Nop sure doesn't, so i guess i can just connect the filco to a USB and the keypad to the ps/2.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kaankin* 
Nop sure doesn't, so i guess i can just connect the filco to a USB and the keypad to the ps/2.

Oh, then certainly use a PS/2 to USB adapter for the keypad.

But if it will work in the port that's usually used for the mouse, then nevermind. However, I just don't know yet whether or not it will work in that PS/2 port.

Here are some PS/2 to USB adapters:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...o%20usb&Page=1


----------



## Manyak

+1 on the active PS/2 to USB adapter

It's the easiest way to do it if you want to keep the keyboard on PS/2.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Elitekeyboards got a crapton of Otaku models in stock, and they're using softer LEDs (as Brian put it, "no more signalling extraterrestrial life").

Majestouch Tactile Touch NKRO "Otaku"
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...d=fkbn104mnpek

Tenkeyless Majestouch Tactile Click "Otaku"
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...d=fkbn87mcnpek

Tenkeyless Majestouch Tactile Click "Otaku" White
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...d=fkbn87mcewek

Tenkeyless Majestouch Tactile Touch "Otaku" White
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...id=fkbn87mewek

But best of all: replacement printed keycaps!
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...id=fkb10487prn


got the email this morning too... those white tenkeyless are awesome! At first I really wanted printed keys for my number row, but I'm pretty much to the point of not needing them anymore.

The wrist rests have been delayed yet again though


----------



## sotorious

DAMNIT i need to stop coming to this thread, i want one so bad but then that thing doesnt come with a wrist support then i got to find a wrist support, i would love to have the white one, but i smoke so its gonna turn a different color !!!!!!!!!!!!!! i swear if they were like 80 bucks i would of bought like 5 of them.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


DAMNIT i need to stop coming to this thread, i want one so bad but then that thing doesnt come with a wrist support then i got to find a wrist support, i would love to have the white one, but i smoke so its gonna turn a different color !!!!!!!!!!!!!! i swear if they were like 80 bucks i would of bought like 5 of them.


Smoke doesn't actually stain it. It might _coat_ it, and you'll have to clean it once in a while to keep it looking good, but it's nothing permanent.

The one thing I've found that's absolutely amazing for removing smoke residue from plastic is Windex, believe it or not. Try it on your monitor's casing, you'll surprised.


----------



## sotorious

anyone use paypal on them? since i got my bank account linked up to it will it take the same amount of time to process the payment?


----------



## The Rider

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Izvire*


Here, AutoHotKey.


















+1


----------



## The Rider

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


anyone use paypal on them? since i got my bank account linked up to it will it take the same amount of time to process the payment?


I used PP - to pay for mine. If your bank account has positive balance, transfer from your acct to Paypal is instantaneous.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *The Rider*


I used PP - to pay for mine. If your bank account has positive balance, transfer from your acct to Paypal is instantaneous.


It always takes paypal about 3 days to charge my account. The payment goes through right away on the other end though.


----------



## ned99

I just got the ABS M1 from newegg and it's amazing. I noticed an immediate difference gaming and I'm typing faster within the first 10 minutes of using it. I swear I had my best round of MW2 using this keyboard. It's taking me a minute to get used to the metallic "echo" that the keys make when they pop back up, but its sure is way better than the POS board I had before.


----------



## sotorious

# eChecks take 3-5 business days to process (estimated:3/17/2010-3/19/2010).
# We advise merchants not to ship items until they receive payment

Damnit, the only reason im not using my card right now is cause im waiting for a new one to come in. I was biting the bullet but it bit me


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
# eChecks take 3-5 business days to process (estimated:3/17/2010-3/19/2010).
# We advise merchants not to ship items until they receive payment

Damnit, the only reason im not using my card right now is cause im waiting for a new one to come in. I was biting the bullet but it bit me









don't do an eCheck, do an instant transfer.


----------



## sotorious

cant right now my card is canceled, atm till they send me my new one.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
cant right now my card is canceled, atm till they send me my new one.

no, that's a credit card payment. There's credit card, echeck, and instant transfer. 3 different ways to pay through paypal.


----------



## sotorious

Also do you guys have the wrist pads for this thing? i am so used to my saitek 2 i just pulled the wrist rest off and it was weird.

i think i found another CC i can use.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


Also do you guys have the wrist pads for this thing? i am so used to my saitek 2 i just pulled the wrist rest off and it was weird.

i think i found another CC i can use.


I don't have one, but I heard they're pretty nice. Either way, almost anything you get will be better than a slab of plastic like on the Saitek.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I wonder if you could make a soft wrist rest out of a long balloon, some sand or other material, and fabric (socks?). That would be the most amazing ghetto wrist rest ever.


----------



## sotorious

IM GOING IN FOR THE KILL NOTHING IS HOLDING ME BACK im going to order it in 5...4.....3...2....1..... cherry blues for gaming!

edit: omg that feels so good to get out of my system. I have been battling with that menu for months now. I finally pulled the trigger ._. i hope i enjoy it as i should start shopping for a wrist pad now.

So now i sit back and wait.


----------



## brodie337

Oh... I forgot to tell you folks...

I have just bought myself a Cherry Brown Filco (tenkeyless), and a full set of blank keycaps that shipped yesterday...

Looking forward to it's arrival.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I wonder if you could make a soft wrist rest out of a long balloon, some sand or other material, and fabric (socks?). That would be the most amazing ghetto wrist rest ever.


Hmm...sounds good to me. Try it before I do







. Now that I think about it, maybe a long peice of wood, a few socks or fabric and some padding would do nicely. I might actually try that lol I have some black grill cloth that would turn the ghetto look into a 'custom' look lol.

*edit* Just wondering, is there any way to convert ps2 to usb (i.e. my other at101w)? Is it possible to just use an adapter (or cable splicing)?


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


Originally Posted by *drjoey1500* 

*edit* Just wondering, is there any way to convert ps2 to usb (i.e. my other at101w)? Is it possible to just use an adapter (or cable splicing)?

you'll need an "active" converter for best performance. Passive adapters most likely will not work.

check the geekhack wiki for known working adapters.
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?tit...o-USB+adapters


----------



## sotorious

speaking of that do you guys use the ps2 connector? isn't that how you get the full n-roll

edit: also is the usb cable pretty long?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
speaking of that do you guys use the ps2 connector? isn't that how you get the full n-roll

Yeah I use the ps/2 connector so I can get more then 6 keys.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
IM GOING IN FOR THE KILL NOTHING IS HOLDING ME BACK im going to order it in 5...4.....3...2....1..... cherry blues for gaming!

edit: omg that feels so good to get out of my system. I have been battling with that menu for months now. I finally pulled the trigger ._. i hope i enjoy it as i should start shopping for a wrist pad now.

So now i sit back and wait.

What did you order?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brodie337* 
Oh... I forgot to tell you folks...

I have just bought myself a Cherry Brown Filco (tenkeyless), and a full set of blank keycaps that shipped yesterday...

Looking forward to it's arrival.

Oh, so you got the Majestouch Tenkeyless Tactile Touch! I'm looking forward to seeing more love and enthusiasm for the Majestouch!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
speaking of that do you guys use the ps2 connector? isn't that how you get the full n-roll

Yep, as the Elite Keyboards site shows, the PS/2 adapter must be used with the NKRO boards in order to _have_ NKRO.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
edit: also is the usb cable pretty long?

The length of the cable is 4.9 feet (58.8 inches), and the adapter is 1.5 inches long. And just for clarification, 60.0 inches is exactly 5 feet.


----------



## ez12a

i'm waiting for the G80-3000LCSRC to be back in stock so i can have a beater Cherry MX Blu keyboard..


----------



## sotorious

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...id=fkbn104mceb

this is the one i ordered i hope i made the right choice i really enjoyed my saitek 2. i hope this takes my heart like it taken everyone elses.

i ordered last night but they have yet to send me a confirmation email.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...id=fkbn104mceb

this is the one i ordered i hope i made the right choice i really enjoyed my saitek 2. i hope this takes my heart like it taken everyone elses.

i ordered last night but they have yet to send me a confirmation email.


Oh, that's the same one I have! It's about 10 billion times better than the Saitek Eclipse II.

Anyway, so you haven't even received a PayPal confirmation? I ordered mine at about 8:30 a.m. Central Time on Wednesday, March 3rd, and I received the PayPal confirmation about 1 minute later. The order finally shipped the next day at around 5:35 p.m (but that may mean 3:35 p.m. since it was in CA at the time).


----------



## sotorious

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Oh, that's the same one I have! It's about 10 billion times better than the Saitek Eclipse II.

Anyway, so you haven't even received a PayPal confirmation? I ordered mine at about 8:30 a.m. Central Time on Wednesday, March 3rd, and I received the PayPal confirmation about 1 minute later. The order finally shipped the next day at around 5:35 p.m (but that may mean 3:35 p.m. since it was in CA at the time).


I got paypal confirmation i just didn't get the confirmation that my order has been shipped. Might be till Monday now before they ship it. Although i did use a credit card, i still got a confirmation from paypal.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


I got paypal confirmation i just didn't get the confirmation that my order has been shipped. Might be till Monday now before they ship it. Although i did use a credit card, i still got a confirmation from paypal.


That's because it hasn't been shipped. But when it ships, you'll receive an e-mail from [email protected] informing you that it has been shipped. You'll also receive an e-mail once it has been delivered. Both of these updates are at the request of Brian Kreps at Elite Keyboards for each order he receives.

I agree that it will ship on Monday because you ordered last night as opposed to early yesterday morning. If you had ordered at like 8 a.m., then it probably would have shipped today (like perhaps an hour ago). But fortunately, you live in Texas, so you should receive it either next Wednesday, or next Thursday.


----------



## sotorious

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
That's because it hasn't been shipped. But when it ships, you'll receive an e-mail from [email protected] informing you that it has been shipped. You'll also receive an e-mail once it has been delivered. Both of these updates are at the request of Brian Kreps at Elite Keyboards for each order he receives.

I agree that it will ship on Monday because you ordered last night as opposed to early yesterday morning. If you had ordered at like 8 a.m., then it probably would have shipped today (like perhaps an hour ago). But fortunately, you live in Texas, so you should receive it either next Wednesday, or next Thursday.

o jebus hopefully i forget about it. Did you also have to sign for the package since it came with fedex?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
o jebus hopefully i forget about it. Did you also have to sign for the package since it came with fedex?

No, fortunately. Check it out:

http://www.fedex.com/Tracking?trackn...ype=ivpodalrt&

I hope this doesn't mean that somebody can figure out my address.


----------



## sotorious

O ok cause usually they make you sign for it when its delivered through fedex in a way this is good for me as i am not home at all times.


----------



## cgg123321

How do the Model M spring switches compare to the cherry ones? How are they for gaming anyways


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cgg123321*


How do the Model M spring switches compare to the cherry ones? How are they for gaming anyways


Well there are many different Cherry ones, you gotta be more specific!

But I'll assume you mean the blues, since they're the closest to Buckling Springs.

Buckling Springs have a more precise feeling tactile feedback - the MX Blues literally use a bump, while the BS simply snap under your finger. BS require a bit more force to press than Blues. BS are louder, but the Blues's sound is higher pitched. Blues actuate slightly higher up than BS (so you have to push BS down a little bit further for them to actuate), although they both have the same overall travel distance.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cgg123321*


How do the Model M spring switches compare to the cherry ones? How are they for gaming anyways


They're ok.

They're heavier than the Cherry MX Blue switches (which they're most similar to) taking ~70-80g of force instead of 45g. The sound is also more pronounced.

I've been using mine for gaming and it's ok. The problem is that it's kind of loud, so unless you use headphones it can be moderately distracting. It isn't _bad_ for gaming by any means; I've been using it for months. But it wouldn't be the best choice if gaming is more important to you than typing.

If you want a gaming keyboard look for something with Cherry MX Browns, MX Blacks, MX Reds, ML Blacks, or Black Alps.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
They're ok.

They're heavier than the Cherry MX Blue switches (which they're most similar to) taking ~70-80g of force instead of 45g. The sound is also more pronounced.

I've been using mine for gaming and it's ok. The problem is that it's kind of loud, so unless you use headphones it can be moderately distracting. It isn't _bad_ for gaming by any means; I've been using it for months. But it wouldn't be the best choice if gaming is more important to you than typing.

If you want a gaming keyboard look for something with Cherry MX Browns, MX Blacks, MX Reds, ML Blacks, or Black Alps.

ML switches aren't really the optimal choice - if they're hit too far off-center they don't go down.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Guess I'll have to wait and see what I think of the G84.

For someone with good key accuracy that shouldn't really be a problem.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Guess I'll have to wait and see what I think of the G84.

For someone with good key accuracy that shouldn't really be a problem.

Yeah it really all depends on the person.

I went absolutely nuts on my G84-4100, it had less key spacing than usual so I was always hitting the sides and corners of the keys. And of course most of the keys wouldn't go through.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
O ok cause usually they make you sign for it when its delivered through fedex in a way this is good for me as i am not home at all times.

I've had dozens of FedEx and UPS deliveries to this house (my parents' house), and I've only had to sign for 1 of those deliveries and it wasn't even mine.

So, I think it's up to the person who delivers to decide whether or not to request a signature. So since I didn't have to sign for the Majestouch, I'm assuming that Brian at Elite Keyboards doesn't ask FedEx to require a signature.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I've had dozens of FedEx and UPS deliveries to this house (my parent's house), and I've only had to sign for 1 of those deliveries and it wasn't even mine.

So, I think it's up to the person who delivers to decide whether or not to request a signature. So since I didn't have to sign for the Majestouch, I'm assuming that Brian at Elite Keyboards doesn't ask FedEx to require a signature.


Fedex (and I'm assuming UPS too) charges a fee for requiring a signature. Most places don't put that onto the shipping unless you request it, or the package is a high value.


----------



## soloz2

I need to get my wife a new keyboard. She doesn't game, only type and I'm thinking blues or browns or a nice scissor switch will be ok for her.

She wants a standard layout with 10 key, but her keyboard tray isn't long so a slightly larger keyboard like my old Saitek Eclipse II is too large to fit in the tray with her mouse.

Price range: I'd like to get her a 104key Filco, but at >$120 shipped she's not likely to go for that... something in the $50 range would be much better, but I understand that mechanical switches are not common in that price range so I may have to look for a good scissor switch. (she's not sold that my Filco was worth the expense... lol)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
I need to get my wife a new keyboard. She doesn't game, only type and I'm thinking blues or browns or a nice scissor switch will be ok for her.

She wants a standard layout with 10 key, but her keyboard tray isn't long so a slightly larger keyboard like my old Saitek Eclipse II is too large to fit in the tray with her mouse.

Price range: I'd like to get her a 104key Filco, but at >$120 shipped she's not likely to go for that... something in the $50 range would be much better, but I understand that mechanical switches are not common in that price range so I may have to look for a good scissor switch. (she's not sold that my Filco was worth the expense... lol)

So she's typed on the board but doesn't get it?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
I need to get my wife a new keyboard. She doesn't game, only type and I'm thinking blues or browns or a nice scissor switch will be ok for her.

She wants a standard layout with 10 key, but her keyboard tray isn't long so a slightly larger keyboard like my old Saitek Eclipse II is too large to fit in the tray with her mouse.

Price range: I'd like to get her a 104key Filco, but at >$120 shipped she's not likely to go for that... something in the $50 range would be much better, but I understand that mechanical switches are not common in that price range so I may have to look for a good scissor switch. (she's not sold that my Filco was worth the expense... lol)

You could get her a Scorpius M10, that should work. Or a Unicomp Spacesaver ($70).

Or if you just want to stick to scissor switches, get this. Best scissor switches you can get.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
So she's typed on the board but doesn't get it?

no she hasn't really typed on my board... no one is allowed to use my computer







My wife has her own desktop (secondary rig, [email protected], 8gb RAM, 9400gfx etc), and a laptop so she doesn't have the need.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
You could get her a Scorpius M10, that should work. Or a Unicomp Spacesaver ($70).

Or if you just want to stick to scissor switches, get this. Best scissor switches you can get.

I'll look at these options tonight, thanks!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
no she hasn't really typed on my board... no one is allowed to use my computer







My wife has her own desktop (secondary rig, [email protected], 8gb RAM, 9400gfx etc), and a laptop so she doesn't have the need.

So then let her experience the keyboard for a while. I'm not talking a few minutes either; I'm talking about a few hours. Otherwise, she won't get it.

Don't get me wrong: I love that you wear the pants in the relationship. But I really think she needs to experience this.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Yeah, I think a Unicomp board sounds like a good choice in this situation.


----------



## 1keith1

Hey guys, Ive been looking at getting one of these for a while since I am tired of my keyboards breaking on me.

For the most part the little "tab" that holds my keys on to the board tends to crack under all the pressure I give it.

Are there any keyboards that aren't mechanical that have some sort of metal tabs for connecting the keys to the board? (I am currently using a Saitek Eclipse w/ Blue LED's which has a loose key because like I said half the tab has cracked off)

I was looking at most of the keyboards and I was hoping to go nice and cheap but I noticed all the ones for a reasonable price don't come with an attachable wrist rest. Why would they do this? I can't type very long without a wrist rest, or even game well.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I don't know why they don't come with a wrist rest (henceforth called a "wrest"), but most of the ones you're probably used to are the hard plastic stuff that get tacked on as a last minute gimmick. If you want a *really* nice wrest, the Filco one is amazing, but it's expensive as hell at $45. You can also "hack" your own, using a long balloon, sand, and fabric (socks will do). Or wood, foam, and fabric. I think you can figure out what you're supposed to do with them.

I don't know what you mean by "tab"--but the most durable keyboards are the IBM Model M and its modern version the Unicomp Customizer. These can withstand more than twenty years of use and abuse and still work fine.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I don't know why they don't come with a wrist rest (henceforth called a "wrest"), but most of the ones you're probably used to are the hard plastic stuff that get tacked on as a last minute gimmick. If you want a *really* nice wrest, the Filco one is amazing, but it's expensive as hell at $45. You can also "hack" your own, using a long balloon, sand, and fabric (socks will do). Or wood, foam, and fabric. I think you can figure out what you're supposed to do with them.

I don't know what you mean by "tab"--but the most durable keyboards are the IBM Model M and its modern version the Unicomp Customizer. These can withstand more than twenty years of use and abuse and still work fine.


And they're extremely affordable.

Oh yeah, and 1keith1: I still don't know what "tabs" are in this context.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1keith1* 
Hey guys, Ive been looking at getting one of these for a while since I am tired of my keyboards breaking on me.

For the most part the little "tab" that holds my keys on to the board tends to crack under all the pressure I give it.

Are there any keyboards that aren't mechanical that have some sort of metal tabs for connecting the keys to the board? (I am currently using a Saitek Eclipse w/ Blue LED's which has a loose key because like I said half the tab has cracked off)

I was looking at most of the keyboards and I was hoping to go nice and cheap but I noticed all the ones for a reasonable price don't come with an attachable wrist wrest. Why would they do this? I can't type very long without a wrist wrest, or even game well.

Like Phaedrus suggested, a Model M is probably the best keyboard for you. You can find them on ebay for like $10-$20. Or buy a new Unicomp for $60-$100, depending on the model you pick. They don't have metal tabs, but they use ABS plastic, which is a lot more durable than the PVC (or some derivative) that the Saitek most likely uses. But they _do_ have a steel backplate, so no matter how hard you hit the keys the board won't flex under the pressure. And it's weight stops it from moving around the desk while you type.

And those plastic wrist rests are junk. Try out a real one. Filco makes a really nice one, and there's also Belkin and Fellows and a few others that you can get from newegg or amazon for cheap.

Note: If going the ebay route, always make sure that you check the connector (must be AT or PS/2), and avoid the "semi-clicky" ones - those are rubber domes.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
And they're extremely affordable.

Oh yeah, and 1keith1: I still don't know what "tabs" are in this context.

He's talking about the keycap stem.


----------



## 1keith1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I don't know why they don't come with a wrist rest (henceforth called a "wrest"), but most of the ones you're probably used to are the hard plastic stuff that get tacked on as a last minute gimmick. If you want a *really* nice wrest, the Filco one is amazing, but it's expensive as hell at $45. You can also "hack" your own, using a long balloon, sand, and fabric (socks will do). Or wood, foam, and fabric. I think you can figure out what you're supposed to do with them.

I don't know what you mean by "tab"--but the most durable keyboards are the IBM Model M and its modern version the Unicomp Customizer. These can withstand more than twenty years of use and abuse and still work fine.


Well I wish I could buy the Filco at Newegg, also I can't buy the small one that lacks a number pad, this needs to be your standard keyboard.

So if possible try to link me newegg only, or If you could find it at microcenter that would be nice as well.

And by Tab I mean what is part of the keyboard, you remove the key and you see a little plastic circle that looks like it aligns the key right over the silicon pad. Yea about half of that is snapped off.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The only mechanical keyboards at Newegg at the ABS M1, and some Cherry G84 boards (which wouldn't work well for you). The ABS M1 is a decent board, but it isn't as durable as the others mentioned. It would be more durable than any rubber dome you've used though.

If you want a good mechanical board you'd have to look in other places. So I'm going to have to link you to someplace other than Newegg.

Filco:
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...estouch_104key
Das:
http://www.daskeyboard.com/
Deck:
http://www.deckkeyboards.com/
Unicomp:
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/keyboards.html

Also look for Cherry G80 and G81, Dell AT101W, and IBM Model M keyboards on ebay.


----------



## 1keith1

I just don't think any of these boards are going to work for me, there are so few styles and none have any wrist rests.

I think I would rather find a board that has metal parts including the keystem.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The keystem is never made of metal. On any board.

ABS will be fine. I don't think you realize how much tougher it is than PVC. Kind of like the difference between aluminum and steel. And the Model M/Unicomp... Hell, I think that thing could stop a .22 bullet, though I wouldn't want to test it myself.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1keith1* 
I just don't think any of these boards are going to work for me, there are so few styles and none have any wrist rests.

I think I would rather find a board that has metal parts including the keystem.

Well, good luck then. The only keyboards with metal keystems are hall effect keyboards, found in NASA space shuttles and nuclear power plants.

Trust us. Get a Model M. It's impossible to find a more durable keyboard _anywhere_ on the market.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1keith1* 
Well I wish I could buy the Filco at Newegg, also I can't buy the small one that lacks a number pad, this needs to be your standard keyboard.

So if possible try to link me newegg only, or If you could find it at microcenter that would be nice as well.

And by Tab I mean what is part of the keyboard, you remove the key and you see a little plastic circle that looks like it aligns the key right over the silicon pad. Yea about half of that is snapped off.

Are you talking about the part of the keycap or the part on the board?

The keycap connects directly to the switch on mechanical keyboards. Either way, there are no tabs, just a piece that snaps over or into the stem of the switch.

A model M or unicomp might be good, but I've read they are pretty loud, which you may not like after using rubber dome keyboards.

IIRC its not the best for your wrists to rest them on the wrist rest while typing anyway.

link to newegg wrist rests


----------



## 1keith1

Quote:


Originally Posted by *drjoey1500* 
Are you talking about the part of the keycap or the part on the board?

The keycap connects directly to the switch on mechanical keyboards. Either way, there are no tabs, just a piece that snaps over or into the stem of the switch.

A model M or unicomp might be good, but I've read they are pretty loud, which you may not like after using rubber dome keyboards.

IIRC its not the best for your wrists to rest them on the wrist rest while typing anyway.

link to newegg wrist rests

Its the part on the keyboard, not the key.

Anyways I don't like the way the IBM model M looks, I would rather go with an ABS if you guys could help me decide upon a wrist rest.


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1keith1* 
Its the part on the keyboard, not the key.

Anyways I don't like the way the IBM model M looks, I would rather go with an ABS if you guys could help me decide upon a wrist rest.

look into these wrist rests...
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...ess,palm_rests

really, just go to a local office store and get one...


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Just a heads up, if anyone is interested in trying out a mechanical keyboard for extremely cheap there's a Dell AT101W on eBay for $15 shipped:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-AT101W-AT-1...item5190ad236d
It's "Buy it Now" so no bid snipers.

There are a few others on there for under or around $20 shipped... This is a good time to buy these, a couple weeks ago there were barely any at all on eBay.

These are most similar to the ABS M1 which sells on Newegg for ~$50. They both use Black Alps switches (though the Dell's are the older "complicated" kind which is supposedly better) and are approximately the same size. No NKRO, I think they use the IBM matrix or a derivative. But they're a good starter keyboard, along with the Model M (no stunning deals on those at the moment).


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
You could get her a Scorpius M10, that should work. Or a Unicomp Spacesaver ($70).

Or if you just want to stick to scissor switches, get this. Best scissor switches you can get.

well the unicomp is out as it's just too loud for here







. I'm trying to get her to watch a 45sec youtube video on the m10 right now and am in a loosing battle there...









Which leaves me with brown switches or some good scissor switches. She used to have an IBM laptop and she liked the trackball... but told me it would be stupid on a regular keyboard.

She's just going to fight me on this one...







But in all fairness she did drag me to the mall today to get a new winter coat... I've had the same one for the last 10 years









Alright, the video of blues wasn't quite enough and she claims my keyboard (browns) is too loud too...







What's a good scissor keyboard w/o a trackball


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Just a heads up, if anyone is interested in trying out a mechanical keyboard for extremely cheap there's a Dell AT101W on eBay for $15 shipped:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-AT101W-AT-1...item5190ad236d
It's "Buy it Now" so no bid snipers.

There are a few others on there for under or around $20 shipped... This is a good time to buy these, a couple weeks ago there were barely any at all on eBay.

These are most similar to the ABS M1 which sells on Newegg for ~$50. They both use Black Alps switches (though the Dell's are the older "complicated" kind which is supposedly better) and are approximately the same size. No NKRO, I think they use the IBM matrix or a derivative. But they're a good starter keyboard, along with the Model M (no stunning deals on those at the moment).

They're pretty much worth the selling price as far as feel...they aren't a very highly recommended mechanical switch.


----------



## yawnbox

I went to see Green Zone, the new movie about the Iraq war. In two different shots while in a CIA ops room it was very obvious that one of the guys in there was typing on a mechanical keyboard. It's black, and I think I saw a red logo of some kind in the top right corner. The key strokes were not as 'clicky' as blues but they weren't quiet either. It was a more "hollowed" sound in comparison to blues. The camera's movement did not make it easy to see it well enough to distinguish anything else. It was a full keyboard though. Anyone else see it and have any ideas which keyboard it is?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Was it a Das?
http://daskeyboard.com/
It's got some red in the logo.


----------



## yawnbox

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Was it a Das?
http://daskeyboard.com/
It's got some red in the logo.

It could have been... though I figure that the white would stand out more than the red in a 'flash' glimpse.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
well the unicomp is out as it's just too loud for here







. I'm trying to get her to watch a 45sec youtube video on the m10 right now and am in a loosing battle there...









Which leaves me with brown switches or some good scissor switches. She used to have an IBM laptop and she liked the trackball... but told me it would be stupid on a regular keyboard.

She's just going to fight me on this one...







But in all fairness she did drag me to the mall today to get a new winter coat... I've had the same one for the last 10 years









Alright, the video of blues wasn't quite enough and she claims my keyboard (browns) is too loud too...







What's a good scissor keyboard w/o a trackball









Just remove the rubber trackpoint tip. You don't need to use it if you don't want to.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Like Phaedrus suggested, a Model M is probably the best keyboard for you. You can find them on ebay for like $10-$20. Or buy a new Unicomp for $60-$100, depending on the model you pick. They don't have metal tabs, but they use ABS plastic, which is a lot more durable than the PVC (or some derivative) that the Saitek most likely uses. But they _do_ have a steel backplate, so no matter how hard you hit the keys the board won't flex under the pressure. And it's weight stops it from moving around the desk while you type.

And those plastic wrist rests are junk. Try out a real one. Filco makes a really nice one, and there's also Belkin and Fellows and a few others that you can get from newegg or amazon for cheap.

Note: If going the ebay route, always make sure that you check the connector (must be AT or PS/2), and avoid the "semi-clicky" ones - those are rubber domes.

He's talking about the keycap stem.


Oh. I had a feeling he was referring to the Stem. But the geek in me just isn't ready to call those things a "stem" yet since they're more of a ....... tab? I guess I see why he called it a tab now.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *1keith1*


I just don't think any of these boards are going to work for me, there are so few styles and none have any wrist rests.

I think I would rather find a board that has metal parts including the keystem.


Then buy a wrist rest either from a local store or from some place online like Newegg or Amazon. I can tell you right now from my own personal experience in upgrading from the Razer Lycosa to the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO that it will be *more* than worth your time and money.

But trust everyone here: if you get any of the mechanical keyboards that they're recommending to you, then you won't need to worry about the stem (or the "tab") one bit. No. Not at all. You'll have a board that's *way* more durable than you could ever _hope_ for.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


well the unicomp is out as it's just too loud for here







. I'm trying to get her to watch a 45sec youtube video on the m10 right now and am in a loosing battle there...









Which leaves me with brown switches or some good scissor switches. She used to have an IBM laptop and she liked the trackball... but told me it would be stupid on a regular keyboard.

She's just going to fight me on this one...







But in all fairness she did drag me to the mall today to get a new winter coat... I've had the same one for the last 10 years










So then perhaps it's time that you just leave her out of the decision-making process and just get what you think is best for her. After all: you're the man in the relationship, so you have every right to do this (just as long as you do it out of love for her, obviously - kinda in the same way you'd buy something for your son or daughter because you love them and want the best for them).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


Alright, the video of blues wasn't quite enough and she claims my keyboard (browns) is too loud too...







What's a good scissor keyboard w/o a trackball










If she thinks it's too loud, then that means you're bottoming out the keycaps against the body of the keyboard. Show her that when the keycaps aren't bottomed out, it's really quiet. And to be honest, the same is true for the Cherry MX Blues (at least it is for the Majestouch Tactile Click).

Also, you can tell her this: before I bought the Tactile Click, one of my requirements in whatever new keyboard I bought was that it had to be very, very, very quiet; exactly like those laptops with nearly dead silent keyboards. But now that I own the Tactile Click, I can tell you right now that even if it were twice as loud, then I would still love it with all of my might because of how awesome of a keyboard it is.

But her problem is that she's so used to bottoming out that she probably subconsciously believes that it's the only way to type. But as I'm finding, I can just _touch_ the keys instead of actually pressing them. I guess that's why they call it _Touch_ Typing.







And by typing like this, all I hear is the click of the switch. Yeah, I admit that I still bottom out keys like the Spacebar, Backspace, Shift, Enter and what-not, but even so: the sound that this keyboard makes is always pleasing to my ears. I think it's because it's due to the build quality. It's just so damn solid! I love it!!!

But meh, women these days.....


----------



## Otterclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
lol









What's even cooler is that if you google "mechanical keyboards" this thread is the 1st result









Quite true, and I'm here as a result. Hiya. I've actually been a mostly lurking member of Overclock, but never even saw this forum til the google search that punctuated six weeks and 12 keyboard purchases. 12.

A couple months ago my Logitech S510 died and began to shop for a new board. At first I tried to get something similar, then a strange thing happened: my taste in keyboards began to evolve. I started with low profile, scissor switch models, then after purchasing a standard-ish (regular profile, membrane) I realized I preferred more 'normal' keys, without quite knowing why or what I even meant by it. After purchasing an $8 Lite-On from Newegg and preferring it to the more expensive boards, I knew something was amiss, and I began to think the answer was hidden in low cost boards.

Evolution was as follows:

-MS Comfort Curve 2000- Liked the key feel, soft but not mushy, quiet, sturdy. Didn't like the curve.
-MS models 500 and 600, wireless 3000.
-Logitech 250, 300
-Lite-On SK 1788, 1688 (the 1788 is one of the highest rated boards on Newegg. 460 reviews, many of them quite amusing, with over 80% positive; and oddly most reviews are not about the $7 price tag, but the key feel.)
-Rosewill RK-7300, 7310 (the 7300 was actually the best scissor switch I've used, very solidly built and designed for a $15 board)
-Gigabyte GK-K6800 (wobbled, but I think we're gonna see good things from Gigabyte)
-Logitech K-320 (new model, terrible)
-Logitech Illuminated (really nice, but at that point I started to realize I didn't like low profile)
-Keytronic Classic II (my evolution begins to take shape. However the "L" key didn't work, ha. Returned)
-Dell stock keyboard (the one that comes with new models)
-Gateway KB-2961 (a stock Gateway keyboard, fairly recent. Weighs near 3lbs and was the best board thus far and what I'm using now.).
-Lenovo Preferred Pro (or something, forget) just bought off Ebay and in the mail. I discovered this at Best Buy. It's the keyboard THEY use at all their workstations, but they don't sell it! It had a really nice feel, solid).

Uh oh, that's more than 12 now isn't it. 16 and I probably missed a couple. My friends and coworkers have become rather annoyed with my daily ranting about the different types of membranes and switches, but they've enjoyed the free keyboards I've been passing out. Up until this point I've been self-educated: "Hey guys, check this out: this one uses a solid membrane sheet, while the other uses individual nubs!".. coworker: "Dude, you need meds."

I began to think I preferred membrane, but now see that may not be it. I'm obsessed. A friend sent me a link to Das Keyboard, which prompted the google search for mechanical. After spending like $170 so far, I'm willing to just pay whatever it takes to end this nightmare. The $250 topre boards are enticing, but I don't want to pay that for something I've never tried. After reading your post, at this point the Filco cherry brown appeals to me. I've spent the last month taking keyboards apart to see what was what, and discovering this thread was like the clouds opening up, choir singing.

Sorry for the huge post, but ya know, I do love typin'.







I have some commentary on the Filco design, but I'll stop here.

P.S. I'm in charge of classroom technology for a state university that shall go unnamed, heh, and we have storerooms of old surplus keyboards: Dells, Gateways, Cherry, many with smart card readers..no IBM though, and no mechanicals of any kind that I've found.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Otterclock* 
Quite true, and I'm here as a result. Hiya. I've actually been a mostly lurking member of Overclock, but never even saw this forum til the google search that punctuated six weeks and 12 keyboard purchases. 12.

A couple months ago my Logitech S510 died and began to shop for a new board. At first I tried to get something similar, then a strange thing happened: my taste in keyboards began to evolve. I started with low profile, scissor switch models, then after purchasing a standard-ish (regular profile, membrane) I realized I preferred more 'normal' keys, without quite knowing why or what I even meant by it. After purchasing an $8 Lite-On from Newegg and preferring it to the more expensive boards, I knew something was amiss, and I began to think the answer was hidden in low cost boards.

Evolution was as follows:

-MS Comfort Curve 2000- Liked the key feel, soft but not mushy, quiet, sturdy. Didn't like the curve.
-MS models 500 and 600, wireless 3000.
-Logitech 250, 300
-Lite-On SK 1788, 1688 (the 1788 is one of the highest rated boards on Newegg. 460 reviews, many of them quite amusing, with over 80% positive; and oddly most reviews are not about the $7 price tag, but the key feel.)
-Rosewill RK-7300, 7310 (the 7300 was actually the best scissor switch I've used, very solidly built and designed for a $15 board)
-Gigabyte GK-K6800 (wobbled, but I think we're gonna see good things from Gigabyte)
-Logitech K-320 (new model, terrible)
-Logitech Illuminated (really nice, but at that point I started to realize I didn't like low profile)
-Keytronic Classic II (my evolution begins to take shape. However the "L" key didn't work, ha. Returned)
-Dell stock keyboard (the one that comes with new models)
-Gateway KB-2961 (a stock Gateway keyboard, fairly recent. Weighs near 3lbs and was the best board thus far and what I'm using now.).
-Lenovo Preferred Pro (or something, forget) just bought off Ebay and in the mail. I discovered this at Best Buy. It's the keyboard THEY use at all their workstations, but they don't sell it! It had a really nice feel, solid).

Uh oh, that's more than 12 now isn't it. 16 and I probably missed a couple. My friends and coworkers have become rather annoyed with my daily ranting about the different types of membranes and switches, but they've enjoyed the free keyboards I've been passing out. Up until this point I've been self-educated: "Hey guys, check this out: this one uses a solid membrane sheet, while the other uses individual nubs!".. coworker: "Dude, you need meds."

I began to think I preferred membrane, but now see that may not be it. I'm obsessed. A friend sent me a link to Das Keyboard, which prompted the google search for mechanical. After spending like $170 so far, I'm willing to just pay whatever it takes to end this nightmare. The $250 topre boards are enticing, but I don't want to pay that for something I've never tried. After reading your post, at this point the Filco cherry brown appeals to me. I've spent the last month taking keyboards apart to see what was what, and discovering this thread was like the clouds opening up, choir singing.

Sorry for the huge post, but ya know, I do love typin'.







I have some commentary on the Filco design, but I'll stop here.

P.S. I'm in charge of classroom technology for a state university that shall go unnamed, heh, and we have storerooms of old surplus keyboards: Dells, Gateways, Cherry, many with smart card readers..no IBM though, and no mechanicals of any kind that I've found.

Actually, to be honest I would enjoy reading your commentary on the Filco design since I'm a new (and blissfully happy) owner of the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO.

But rest assured that I carefully read this entire post, and I actually really enjoy the way you write; it's just so natural and very easy to read. Nice.

Anyway, I am really loving where this evolution is taking you and I am loving your enthusiasm as well. I sincerely hope that you find a keyboard that really does end this seemingly endless nightmare. You definitely came to the right place. In fact, an even _better_ place to go for talking about mechanical keyboards is http://geekhack.org/.


----------



## soloz2

thanks for the suggestions here guys, I posted a separate thread since I didn't want to derail this guide anymore
http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ml#post8749740


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Otterclock* 
Quite true, and I'm here as a result. Hiya. I've actually been a mostly lurking member of Overclock, but never even saw this forum til the google search that punctuated six weeks and 12 keyboard purchases. 12.

A couple months ago my Logitech S510 died and began to shop for a new board. At first I tried to get something similar, then a strange thing happened: my taste in keyboards began to evolve. I started with low profile, scissor switch models, then after purchasing a standard-ish (regular profile, membrane) I realized I preferred more 'normal' keys, without quite knowing why or what I even meant by it. After purchasing an $8 Lite-On from Newegg and preferring it to the more expensive boards, I knew something was amiss, and I began to think the answer was hidden in low cost boards.

Evolution was as follows:

-MS Comfort Curve 2000- Liked the key feel, soft but not mushy, quiet, sturdy. Didn't like the curve.
-MS models 500 and 600, wireless 3000.
-Logitech 250, 300
-Lite-On SK 1788, 1688 (the 1788 is one of the highest rated boards on Newegg. 460 reviews, many of them quite amusing, with over 80% positive; and oddly most reviews are not about the $7 price tag, but the key feel.)
-Rosewill RK-7300, 7310 (the 7300 was actually the best scissor switch I've used, very solidly built and designed for a $15 board)
-Gigabyte GK-K6800 (wobbled, but I think we're gonna see good things from Gigabyte)
-Logitech K-320 (new model, terrible)
-Logitech Illuminated (really nice, but at that point I started to realize I didn't like low profile)
-Keytronic Classic II (my evolution begins to take shape. However the "L" key didn't work, ha. Returned)
-Dell stock keyboard (the one that comes with new models)
-Gateway KB-2961 (a stock Gateway keyboard, fairly recent. Weighs near 3lbs and was the best board thus far and what I'm using now.).
-Lenovo Preferred Pro (or something, forget) just bought off Ebay and in the mail. I discovered this at Best Buy. It's the keyboard THEY use at all their workstations, but they don't sell it! It had a really nice feel, solid).

Uh oh, that's more than 12 now isn't it. 16 and I probably missed a couple. My friends and coworkers have become rather annoyed with my daily ranting about the different types of membranes and switches, but they've enjoyed the free keyboards I've been passing out. Up until this point I've been self-educated: "Hey guys, check this out: this one uses a solid membrane sheet, while the other uses individual nubs!".. coworker: "Dude, you need meds."

I began to think I preferred membrane, but now see that may not be it. I'm obsessed. A friend sent me a link to Das Keyboard, which prompted the google search for mechanical. After spending like $170 so far, I'm willing to just pay whatever it takes to end this nightmare. The $250 topre boards are enticing, but I don't want to pay that for something I've never tried. After reading your post, at this point the Filco cherry brown appeals to me. I've spent the last month taking keyboards apart to see what was what, and discovering this thread was like the clouds opening up, choir singing.

Sorry for the huge post, but ya know, I do love typin'.







I have some commentary on the Filco design, but I'll stop here.

P.S. I'm in charge of classroom technology for a state university that shall go unnamed, heh, and we have storerooms of old surplus keyboards: Dells, Gateways, Cherry, many with smart card readers..no IBM though, and no mechanicals of any kind that I've found.


lol, I know how you feel.....I went through about 1 keyboard a month before "discovering" mechanicals, and then went through 1 keyboard a week looking for the switches I'd like the best lol.

Yeah it's not really about membrane vs individual domes, that doesn't really change anything except durability - it's simply the shape of the domes and the composition of the rubber that determines their feel.

If you're pretty sure you'll like Cherry Browns I won't argue. But a lot of people tend to go for them just because they're not clicky, and then find out that they prefer a switch with more precise tactility - so I just want to make sure you're picking them for the feel, not just because you're scared of sound







.

The thing with clicky boards is that it's kind of like living near a highway or train station. Once you get used to it, your mind simply blocks out the sound and you don't hear it anymore. Instead you become sensitive to the absence of it - like when you miss a key and the sound gets interrupted, you know something's wrong.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
lol, I know how you feel.....I went through about 1 keyboard a month before "discovering" mechanicals, and then went through 1 keyboard a week looking for the switches I'd like the best lol.

Yeah it's not really about membrane vs individual domes, that doesn't really change anything except durability - it's simply the shape of the domes and the composition of the rubber that determines their feel.

If you're pretty sure you'll like Cherry Browns I won't argue. But a lot of people tend to go for them just because they're not clicky, and then find out that they prefer a switch with more precise tactility - so I just want to make sure you're picking them for the feel, not just because you're scared of sound







.

The thing with clicky boards is that it's kind of like living near a highway or train station. Once you get used to it, your mind simply blocks out the sound and you don't hear it anymore. Instead you become sensitive to the absence of it - like when you miss a key and the sound gets interrupted, you know something's wrong.

And Otterclock, what I like about the clicks is that it's quieter than the sound of the keycaps bottoming out against the body of the keyboard. So as I get better and better and not bottoming out (or just bottoming out more gently), my keyboard becomes quieter and quieter.

But I also love the way the click sounds. I feel that it's subtle, crisp, high-quaity-sounding, precise, and very satisfying.

I also know what Manyak's talking about when he says that the Cherry MX Blues are very precise: as near as I can tell, the instant the click happens is the exact same moment that the signal is sent to the computer. But the feel of the switches is also incredibly precise as well. I really can't get enough of this keyboard. I think I'm happier with this keyboard than I am with my entire sig rig.


----------



## Shadowrunner340

Man, I didn't realize keyboards were such a big deal. I got some $10 kb from like Wal-Mart or something.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowrunner340* 
Man, I didn't realize keyboards were such a big deal. I got some $10 kb from like Wal-Mart or something.

This is OCN, where even the keyboards cost hundreds.









Seriously though, how much time do you spend physically with the internals of your computer? You don't touch your GPU all day long, do you? Well, you might, but that would be weird. The parts of your computer you touch the most are your keyboard and mouse, and I guess you could count speakers/headphones and monitor too.

So really, getting the best keyboard possible for you almost makes more sense than getting, oh, 8GB of RAM, or few more megahertz on your processor.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shadowrunner340* 
Man, I didn't realize keyboards were such a big deal. I got some $10 kb from like Wal-Mart or something.

I'm going to compare it to steak. Why steak? Well, it's like this:

For 20 years, a man has no other steak than what he can get from the local chain-type grocery store (this store has tons of stores in the region). It's just pre-packaged, then shipped to the store and then finally stocked by the meat department. But he says _"steak is steak_" and so it just doesn't matter to him; he believes that it depends on how skillfully he prepares it. So he is always very happy with it and thinks it's quite good!

But then one day this man goes to a friend's house who serves steak for dinner and it's the best steak he's ever had in his entire life. It turns out that this steak was from the local butcher who's store is close to both him and his friend. The cut of the steak was the same that he has always had throughout his whole life, but it was noticeably much better.

So then he decides to see for himself: the next weekend comes around and he buys his usual cut from that local butcher instead of the grocery store and ends up having that wonderful experience all over again which totally convinces him that it wasn't just a fluke of some kind.

So from that day forward, the man always bought his steak from the local butcher and continued to always have excellent, superior steak that cannot be beat.

So it's the same with keyboards: until you experience it for yourself, it's impossible to know what you're missing out on and therefore it's impossible to understand what all the fuss is about. No amount of words are good enough. But I'll tell you this much: when I'm typing on my new Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO (which is what I am doing right now), I savor every last keystroke just like how I savor every last bit of flavor and every bite of an extra-delicious steak. I *never* did that with my previous keyboards; not even with my Razer Lycosa which I ended up highly recommending to dozens of people because of how much I liked it. But I didn't know any better.

But to me, comparing a good mechanical keyboard to those average, Rubber Dome membrane keyboards is like comparing a child's pretend tool set to a man's real-life, high-quality professional (top-of-the-line) tool set.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
This is OCN, where even the keyboards cost hundreds.









Seriously though, how much time do you spend physically with the internals of your computer? You don't touch your GPU all day long, do you? Well, you might, but that would be weird. The parts of your computer you touch the most are your keyboard and mouse, and I guess you could count speakers/headphones and monitor too.

So really, getting the best keyboard possible for you almost makes more sense than getting, oh, 8GB of RAM, or few more megahertz on your processor.

Exactly. After all, the keyboard, mouse and monitor are the 3 main input devices that you basically use 100% of the time that you're sitting at your computer, so they'd better be damn good!!


----------



## gcogger

I'm starting to think the keyboard I want does not exist (at least as a mechanical keyboard). I'm not a great typist - I've gone beyond 2 fingers, but I certainly don't touch type. I will use it for gaming and, occasionally, for moderate typing (I'm a software engineer/programmer and sometimes work from home). What I need is:

Full 105 key UK layout. That's what I have to use at work, so I want my home keyboard to be the same.
Reasonable n-key rollover (say 5 keys min). I've had issues in some games with the 2-3 of 'normal' keyboards.
Either white/cream/silver, or with decently backlit keys. I struggle with most non-backlit black keyboards (lighter colours are OK) as I often game in lower light. I play games 'left handed', with my right hand is in the area of the number pad and cursor keys, and it's awkward when I need to use the rest of the keyboard.
From what I've read on this thread, it sounds like I'd prefer something like the Cherry Brown keys (or maybe black?).
Available in the UK.

Do you guys think I'll be able to find what I need, or should I give up on looking for a mechanical? Thanks.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gcogger* 
I'm starting to think the keyboard I want does not exist (at least as a mechanical keyboard). I'm not a great typist - I've gone beyond 2 fingers, but I certainly don't touch type. I will use it for gaming and, occasionally, for moderate typing (I'm a software engineer/programmer and sometimes work from home). What I need is:

Full 105 key UK layout. That's what I have to use at work, so I want my home keyboard to be the same.
Reasonable n-key rollover (say 5 keys min). I've had issues in some games with the 2-3 of 'normal' keyboards.
Either white/cream/silver, or with decently backlit keys. I struggle with most non-backlit black keyboards (lighter colours are OK) as I often game in lower light. I play games 'left handed', with my right hand is in the area of the number pad and cursor keys, and it's awkward when I need to use the rest of the keyboard.
From what I've read on this thread, it sounds like I'd prefer something like the Cherry Brown keys (or maybe black?).
Available in the UK.

Do you guys think I'll be able to find what I need, or should I give up on looking for a mechanical? Thanks.

I am very confident that you will find a mechanical keyboard that fits your needs and requirements. But I think you're right that you may need to consider switches like the Cherry MX Blacks. Or, perhaps even the Clears or the Reds. I mean, the Blacks might seem to be too much geared towards gaming and may not provide a good middle-ground between gaming and typing. However, I imagine that even the Blacks are superior for typing than Rubber Dome boards are.

But you definitely came to the right place. And y'know, I recommend also asking at http://geekhack.org. They are all about mechanical keyboards over there.


----------



## gcogger

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I am very confident that you will find a mechanical keyboard that fits your needs and requirements. But I think you're right that you may need to consider switches like the Cherry MX Blacks. Or, perhaps even the Clears or the Reds. I mean, the Blacks might seem to be too much geared towards gaming and may not provide a good middle-ground between gaming and typing. However, I imagine that even the Blacks are superior for typing than Rubber Dome boards are.

But you definitely came to the right place. And y'know, I recommend also asking at http://geekhack.org. They are all about mechanical keyboards over there.

Thanks - just posted the same question at geekhack too


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gcogger* 
Thanks - just posted the same question at geekhack too









Sweet. You're welcome too!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gcogger*


I'm starting to think the keyboard I want does not exist (at least as a mechanical keyboard). I'm not a great typist - I've gone beyond 2 fingers, but I certainly don't touch type. I will use it for gaming and, occasionally, for moderate typing (I'm a software engineer/programmer and sometimes work from home). What I need is:

Full 105 key UK layout. That's what I have to use at work, so I want my home keyboard to be the same.
Reasonable n-key rollover (say 5 keys min). I've had issues in some games with the 2-3 of 'normal' keyboards.
Either white/cream/silver, or with decently backlit keys. I struggle with most non-backlit black keyboards (lighter colours are OK) as I often game in lower light. I play games 'left handed', with my right hand is in the area of the number pad and cursor keys, and it's awkward when I need to use the rest of the keyboard.
From what I've read on this thread, it sounds like I'd prefer something like the Cherry Brown keys (or maybe black?).
Available in the UK.

Do you guys think I'll be able to find what I need, or should I give up on looking for a mechanical? Thanks.


Normally I'd tell someone in your position that a mechanical board isn't worth the money since a) you don't touch type and b) durability isn't really an issue. But since you're left handed and pretty much _need_ NKRO for gaming (no keyboards are properly designed for gaming on the right end of the board), you're an exception.

The only place I know to get UK layout mechanical boards is The Keyboard Company. Unfortunately, the only NKRO boards they have are the Filcos, which are black (though they do also have Pink ones, lol).

Sorry, I just never really paid attention to the UK market.


----------



## Otterclock

This thread is like the Blind Melon video where the forlorn girl in the bee outfit discovers a group of other people in bee outfits.

Quote:



Actually, to be honest I would enjoy reading your commentary on the Filco design since I'm a new (and blissfully happy) owner of the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO.

But rest assured that I carefully read this entire post, and I actually really enjoy the way you write; it's just so natural and very easy to read. Nice.


Thank you.







My commentary on the Filco is just superficial and preference based, since I've never used one. In particular, I wish they offered a model with the condensed version of the insert/home/delete keys, where they're in two rows instead of three. I know a lot of people actually don't like that, but I've always felt that the blank space over the arrow keys was wasted. Condensed boards are a good compromise between full length, which prevents closer mouse placement, and tenkeyless. For some reason the keypad being there is just comforting, needed or not.

I also kinda wish they had more two-tone color options, heh. I would love a black keyboard with coffee-brown keys. The Italian Red is neat lookin, but not a good color for mood. Coffee-brown keys with um, soft white character-only backlighting. Why yes, I've had quite a bit of java today.

Quote:



If you're pretty sure you'll like Cherry Browns I won't argue. But a lot of people tend to go for them just because they're not clicky, and then find out that they prefer a switch with more precise tactility


Manyak and Twocables, I think your point about Cherry blue vs brown is spot-on. The browns are a "safe" choice. As I sat with the filco on my screen, a little voice sounding oddly like John Wayne kept chastising me for not going blue. The Duke liked his keyboards; little known fact.

Oh, and the only nightmarish aspect of all this has been the lack of finding something satisfying. The process itself is fun. I kinda like having all the keyboards. Sometimes I take them out and polish them. Not really. So far as anyone knows.

I honestly believe that the keyboard has contributed to human progress as much as any invention of the past thousand years, on par with the printing press and antiseptic.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Otterclock* 
This thread is like the Blind Melon video where the forlorn girl in the bee outfit discovers a group of other people in bee outfits.

lol I remember that video! I even remember the song and it's even running through my head right now! Yikes.







And to think that the last time I heard it was probably 10 years ago or more.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Otterclock* 
Thank you.







My commentary on the Filco is just superficial and preference based, since I've never used one. In particular, I wish they offered a model with the condensed version of the insert/home/delete keys, where they're in two rows instead of three. I know a lot of people actually don't like that, but I've always felt that the blank space over the arrow keys was wasted. Condensed boards are a good compromise between full length, which prevents closer mouse placement, and tenkeyless. For some reason the keypad being there is just comforting, needed or not.

For me, I like having the keypad there because I use its Insert key for certain things in games such as performing a 180Â° turn in Mirror's Edge. I also use the Enter key on the Keypad for when I want to press Enter while I'm using the mouse. So, all I have to do is extend my thumb over and press it. I don't even have to move my hand that much _at all._ I use that maneuver to press Enter nearly every single day. But oddly enough, I navigate mostly with the keyboard, so it's not like I'm always using the mouse.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Otterclock* 
I also kinda wish they had more two-tone color options, heh. I would love a black keyboard with coffee-brown keys. The Italian Red is neat lookin, but not a good color for mood. Coffee-brown keys with um, soft white character-only backlighting. Why yes, I've had quite a bit of java today.

I suppose that if you ended up finding a keyboard you feel is the best option but yet doesn't offer the colors that you would like, then you could always paint them. Keyboard modding is actually about as common as case modding (although I haven't modded a single case or a single keyboard my whole life).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Otterclock* 
Manyak and Twocables, I think your point about Cherry blue vs brown is spot-on. The browns are a "safe" choice. As I sat with the filco on my screen, a little voice sounding oddly like John Wayne kept chastising me for not going blue. The Duke liked his keyboards; little known fact.

Yeah, because as I'm finding, the Cherry MX Blues are quite special. I still remember watching YouTube videos of keyboards with the Cherry MX Blues and comparing them to videos of people typing on boards with the Browns: every time I heard that crisp and subtle click of the Blue switches, I think my heart would flutter or something. I almost turned into a fruitcake and said "Be still, my heart". But the Browns never did that. Those boards just sounded boring to me, so I'm very, very, very, very glad that I went with the Tactile Click instead of the Tactile Touch. This is just the best keyboard that I have ever used. Every keystroke is pure typing bliss both for the tactile feed back and the auditory feedback of the click.







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Otterclock* 
Oh, and the only nightmarish aspect of all this has been the lack of finding something satisfying. The process itself is fun. I kinda like having all the keyboards. Sometimes I take them out and polish them. Not really. So far as anyone knows.

I think what's awesome here is all of the experience you've gained. So now if/when you get a good mechanical keyboard, you will truly and absolutely know how much better they are. You'll be able to describe it better than most of us could ever _hope_ to. Somebody will be able to come here asking if they should make the switch, and then you'll be able to start by saying, "Well, let me tell you a little story and then we'll see what you think".

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Otterclock* 
I honestly believe that the keyboard has contributed to human progress as much as any invention of the past thousand years, on par with the printing press and antiseptic.









hehe "and antiseptic". I wish I had a clever one to add.


----------



## noons

So I received my filco blue yesterday and I absolutely love this thing. Best keyboard I have owned. Great for gaming too! The keyboard really isnt that loud as long as you learn not to bottom out.


----------



## TwoCables

I finally swapped the black Esc key for the Red one, and I'm surprised: it made a much bigger difference to the board's appearance than I _thought_ it would! Wow! I really like it.

I waited on purpose so that I would be able to appreciate it more. I mean, I've had this keyboard since this past Tuesday!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *noons* 
So I received my filco blue yesterday and I absolutely love this thing. Best keyboard I have owned. Great for gaming too! The keyboard really isnt that loud as long as you learn not to bottom out.

Nice! Now it's time to update your sig rig!









I also love how you skillfully summarized everything I've been saying in just 29 words.







Nice! hehe It's true, though: that bottoming out sound is louder than the click of the switch(es).


----------



## gcogger

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Normally I'd tell someone in your position that a mechanical board isn't worth the money since a) you don't touch type and b) durability isn't really an issue. But since you're left handed and pretty much _need_ NKRO for gaming (no keyboards are properly designed for gaming on the right end of the board), you're an exception.

The only place I know to get UK layout mechanical boards is The Keyboard Company. Unfortunately, the only NKRO boards they have are the Filcos, which are black (though they do also have Pink ones, lol).

Sorry, I just never really paid attention to the UK market.

Thanks, I've been looking at the Filcos. Maybe I can find a set of white/cream keys and swap them









My backup plan is the Microsoft Sidewinder X4, which _is_ backlit and claims to handle 26 simultaneous key presses. I guess I'd have to try it and see if it handles the keys I need, but I'm sure it's not mechanical. Still, I was happy enough typing on a cheap Cherry G83 keyboard even though I'm sure the Filco would be nicer. (I can't stand typing on my Razer Tarantula, and can't see the keys in dim light, but at least it handles multiple key presses OK!).


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Or you could try having someone ship you an Adesso MKB-135B. It has NKRO and retails for ~$70 here in the states. Call it $20-$30 for shipping... Might be worthwhile?


----------



## noons

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I finally swapped the black Esc key for the Red one, and I'm surprised: it made a much bigger difference to the board's appearance than I _thought_ it would! Wow! I really like it.

I waited on purpose so that I would be able to appreciate it more. I mean, I've had this keyboard since this past Tuesday!

Nice! Now it's time to update your sig rig!









I also love how you skillfully summarized everything I've been saying in just 29 words.







Nice! hehe It's true, though: that bottoming out sound is louder than the click of the switch(es).


Hahah will do!

One other thing I got to mention was how good the service was at elitekeyboards. They shipped it pretty fast and the packing job they did was excellent. The keyboard box was wrapped in the thick packing wrapping paper (like a big paper bag) and was secured in the box with additional cardboard spacers and of course packing peanuts. Very happy with the service from them!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *noons* 
Hahah will do!

One other thing I got to mention was how good the service was at elitekeyboards. They shipped it pretty fast and the packing job they did was excellent. The keyboard box was wrapped in the thick packing wrapping paper (like a big paper bag) and was secured in the box with additional cardboard spacers and of course packing peanuts. Very happy with the service from them!

Yeah! I just loved how it looked like they carefully and lovingly wrapped the box in that brown paper, and then carefully packed it in the shipping box! Fortunately, I didn't get packing peanuts. Instead, I got a few sheets of Styrofoam and a big sheet of bubble wrap - all of which did a good job of protecting my investment! So yeah, my purchase was absolutely worth every penny!!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I finally swapped the black Esc key for the Red one, and I'm surprised: it made a much bigger difference to the board's appearance than I _thought_ it would! Wow! I really like it.

I waited on purpose so that I would be able to appreciate it more. I mean, I've had this keyboard since this past Tuesday!

Nice! Now it's time to update your sig rig!









I also love how you skillfully summarized everything I've been saying in just 29 words.







Nice! hehe It's true, though: that bottoming out sound is louder than the click of the switch(es).

It's just for looks but it sure does look snappy. Have you gotten used to the keybaord yet?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
It's just for looks but it sure does look snappy. Have you gotten used to the keybaord yet?

Yeah, actually! Y'know, I thought it would certainly take me a little more time to get used to it than this. But for me, it was almost like I was a fish to water. It's weird. It's kinda like I was a saltwater fish trying to survive in artificial saltwater (but not knowing any better, so I was actually happy with it), but now I'm finally in the ocean where I belong and it's absolutely wonderful. It's like a really awesome dream from which I _never_ want to wake!

Or, I kinda feel like Neo at the end of The Matrix when he finally dies, comes back to life, destroys Smith, and then take a deep breath in that hallway almost as if to say "Ah. I can finally be completely relaxed now."


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Wat


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Wat

There is no spoon.


----------



## drjoey1500

Hey can anyone compare cherry browns with black alps? Just curious, I'm thinking about getting one for my laptop now that I have a bigger desk for it, but it would have to be usb (so I can't use my other at101w without an adapter). I've been thinking about trying something with cherry switches anyway since I hear they're generally better.


----------



## lmnop

drjoey1500 I don't think you can.

I got some more information on the Dr. Louis G-Power 101 Pro series.

colors are Black with Blue LED, White with Green LED, Silver/Black with White LED


































sculpted 108 US/Chinese layout PC/MAC compatible


















USB 2.0 hub










power, volume down, volume up, mute and windows key lock










key caps are Christine approved. thick and laser etched


















look away children nubs and nips!


















Costar stabilizers










dual USB cable (gold end to power keyboard, silver end to power USB 2.0 hub) similar to Das Model S.










silicone cushion wrist rest, key cap puller and PS/2 adapter included.


















rollover is minimum of 3 on both USB and PS/2 however I think there is some blocking and up to a max of 8 combinations on USB and 12 on PS/2


















I am not sure what kind of plastics are used. the switches are confusing they appear to have the usual Cherry MX Blue, Brown and Black but some of the translation is off

Quote:

black cherry tea-axis Keyboard (blue LED lights)
Black cherry Green Axis Keyboard (blue LED lights)
Black cherry Silver Axis Keyboard (daylight-color LED lights)
White cherry green axis keyboard (apple green LED lights)
White cherry tea-axis keyboard (apple green LED lights)
White cherry black shaft keyboard (apple green LED lights)
Black Shaft means Cherry MX Black and Tea-Axis means Cherry MX Brown but it mentions Green and Silver which could mean Cherry MX Green and Clear or not.

Cherry MX switches appear to be plate mounted but I have never seen a manufacturer paint a steel plate so it could be a plastic.

the price of the Matias Tactile Pro 2.0 with Alps copies cost $149 USD. the price of the Dr. Louis G-Power 101 Pro series with varied Cherry MX switches and included bundle cost 1999 Taiwan Dollar ($62 USD)

_reason I created this post was because Geekhack did not have one._

Christine


----------



## KipH

I can order one or some for anyone who wants to try one and ship it to you. Or try and help you order if they will ship international


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Noice, but won't shipping be a pain?


----------



## lmnop

if you're going to order overseas I would seriously shift attention to the Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-* instead it only costs 1099 Taiwan Dollar ($34 USD)

G80-3494LYCUS-0 (White)
Polystyrol Casing
PBT (Polyester) Key Caps
Printing is Laser Etched
Backplate

G80-3494LYCUS-2 (Black)
ABS Casing
POM (Delrin) Key Caps
Printing is Laser Etched
Backplate

White version has Nubs on F, J and 5 Keys. Black version has Sloped F and J Keys and a Nip on the 5 Key.

note: I am pretty sure the Cherry G80-3600LYCEU-0 (White) and Cherry G80-3600LYCEU-2 (Black) are the same models with some minor aesthetic differences.

Cherry Logo is now Laser Etched and Painted on the 3494
Status LED indicators are now Blue instead of Green on the 3494

the reason they use POM in the Black version is because the White lettering shows up better. POM is very strong, rigid and expensive. in terms of texture it is more slippery than PBT.

Cherry MX Red switches are Linear (non-tactile, non-clicky) they are similar to the Cherry MX Black Linear but only require 45g of force to actuate and 60g of force to bottom out because they use a weaker spring. in the 3 reviews I read all 3 of them had one thing in common they mentioned the Topre RealForce in some shape or form so they should be significantly better to type with.

the Cherry G80 Classic Line that uses Cherry MX Blue, Brown and Black switches (G80-3000LSCRC-*, G80-3000LXCEU-*, G80-3000LPCEU-*) are widely available in a lot of countries but are not as solidly built, for example they are PCB mounted, rollover is only 2 n-Key rollover and they cost 60-100 depending on the country and currency.

pretty...


















sculpted 104 US layout


















that's not a knife. this is a knife! I mean Key Cap.










Blue LED










Cherry Stabilizers










Rollover is 6+4 in USB and 78 in PS/2 (Full) Cherry 1, Microsoft 0


















for high quality photos of both models see here.

Christine


----------



## sotorious

Still no confirmation from elitekeyboards


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


Still no confirmation from elitekeyboards










This is only the 2nd business day. And like I said before: you're not going to receive an e-mail from Elite Keyboards; you'll receive a shipping notification from FedEx that was requested by Brian Kreps at Elite Keyboards, and that will probably happen today at maybe around 6:30 or after.

So don't worry: he's not going to just take your money and run.


----------



## sotorious

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
This is only the 2nd business day. And like I said before: you're not going to receive an e-mail from Elite Keyboards; you'll receive a shipping notification from FedEx that was requested by Brian Kreps at Elite Keyboards, and that will probably happen today at maybe around 6:30 or after.

So don't worry: he's not going to just take your money and run.

Im not worried about that i just want peace of mind that it has been shipped and is already on its way. I wish i had patients.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
Im not worried about that i just want peace of mind that it has been shipped and is already on its way. I wish i had patients.

You will know when it has been shipped when you receive the notification from FedEx. So, it hasn't shipped yet.


----------



## noons

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


Im not worried about that i just want peace of mind that it has been shipped and is already on its way. I wish i had patients.



Yes and speaking of fedex they have been really slow lately sending out notifications... I didnt get ANY tracking updates from fedex beside the fact that it reached the shipping facility in California. I kind of wondered if it was even coming. It reached about 4 pm and I thought maybe they wouldnt make the estimated shipping date, but sure enough it was sitting on my doorstep


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *noons*


Yes and speaking of fedex they have been really slow lately sending out notifications... I didnt get ANY tracking updates from fedex beside the fact that it reached the shipping facility in California. I kind of wondered if it was even coming. It reached about 4 pm and I thought maybe they wouldnt make the estimated shipping date, but sure enough it was sitting on my doorstep










The only time I received tracking updates was for when it shipped and for when it was delivered. This is because that is what Brian Kreps at Elite Keyboards requests for all of his orders.


----------



## flamingoyster

my enter key started to squeak :\\ what can i do? (using a filco with blue switches)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flamingoyster*


my enter key started to squeak :\\ what can i do? (using a filco with blue switches)


Whoa! How old is your Tactile Click?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flamingoyster*


my enter key started to squeak :\\ what can i do? (using a filco with blue switches)


Take off the keycap, and try pressing down the switch stem on it's own. If that squeaks, then it's coming from the switch. If it doesn't, then it's from the stabilizer bar.

If it's the switch that's squeaking the best thing to do is to replace it (either have elitekeyboards replace it under warranty, or buy a separate switch from digikey).

If it's the stabilizer bar, all you need is a little bit of silicone grease. Something like this. Put it at the joint between the bar and the keyboard base and it'll stop the squeaking.


----------



## TwoCables

Can a switch from another key be used such as the Scroll Lock key?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Can a switch from another key be used such as the Scroll Lock key?


Yes that too, but I mean, a replacement switch only costs a few cents so why not just put a new one in?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Yes that too, but I mean, a replacement switch only costs a few cents so why not just put a new one in?


I know, but I'm interested in finding an instant solution.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I know, but I'm interested in finding an instant solution.


Patience, my young padawan. Patience.









But yeah you can easily swap switches with another key.


----------



## flamingoyster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Take off the keycap, and try pressing down the switch stem on it's own. If that squeaks, then it's coming from the switch. If it doesn't, then it's from the stabilizer bar.

If it's the switch that's squeaking the best thing to do is to replace it (either have elitekeyboards replace it under warranty, or buy a separate switch from digikey).

If it's the stabilizer bar, all you need is a little bit of silicone grease. Something like this. Put it at the joint between the bar and the keyboard base and it'll stop the squeaking.


How does one go about removing a keycap?









To clarify, it makes the squeak after the "click." Also, it only occurs when I press it in a certain corner of the enter key, after it's past the click part and I'm just moving it up and down slightly before bottoming out. (So, in effect, if I never bottomed out -- or rather, never pressed down past the click sensor -- I'd probably never hear the squeak)


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flamingoyster*


How does one go about removing a keycap?










With the enter key, what you want to do is take a small flathead screwdriver and pry it up from the bottom (but not too hard). Once it's off the stem (it'll be loose at this point), you put your fingers on the far side of the cap and pull it towards you. And it'll pop right off.


----------



## flamingoyster

It's loose but when I pull it toward me it isn't sliding off. >.< It's sliding from left to right haha but it won't actually remove itself


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flamingoyster*


How does one go about removing a keycap?









To clarify, it makes the squeak after the "click." Also, it only occurs when I press it in a certain corner of the enter key, after it's past the click part and I'm just moving it up and down slightly before bottoming out. (So, in effect, if I never bottomed out -- or rather, never pressed down past the click sensor -- I'd probably never hear the squeak)


Oh, so then it has to be the stabilizer bar. But remove the keycap using Manyak's instructions above, and then press the switch at varying speeds to see if it squeaks. If it doesn't, then grease up that stabilizer bar.

How long have you had your Tactile Click?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flamingoyster*


It's loose but when I pull it toward me it isn't sliding off. >.< It's sliding from left to right haha but it won't actually remove itself


Ok, on the far side of the keycap - like, the side that's furthest away from you (closest to your monitor), there's the lip at the bottom. Put your fingers under that lip, and pull upwards and towards you. Kind of.


----------



## flamingoyster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Oh, so then it has to be the stabilizer bar. But remove the keycap using Manyak's instructions above, and then press the switch at varying speeds to see if it squeaks. If it doesn't, then grease up that stabilizer bar.

How long have you had your Tactile Click?


Thanks! I've had this keyboard since mid January.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Oh, so then it has to be the stabilizer bar. But remove the keycap using Manyak's instructions above, and then press the switch at varying speeds to see if it squeaks. If it doesn't, then grease up that stabilizer bar.

How long have you had your Tactile Click?


doesn't matter how old it is they can squeak on arrival. Filco spacebars used to be notorious for squeaking.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flamingoyster*


Thanks! I've had this keyboard since mid January.


You're welcome!


----------



## flamingoyster

Update! This is where I am in the removal process. I'm applying what feels like quite a bit of pressure but it doesn't seem to budge. Any advice?


----------



## Manyak

Ok I just removed my enter key and I feel like an idiot now.

Do exactly what I was saying, except do it _upwards_ - as in away from you.


----------



## flamingoyster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Ok I just removed my enter key and I feel like an idiot now.

Do exactly what I was saying, except do it _upwards_ - as in away from you.


ugh i've gotta be doing something wrong. so i still pull from the side closest to the monitor but now i'm pulling it up and toward the monitor?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Ok I just removed my enter key and I feel like an idiot now.

Do exactly what I was saying, except do it _upwards_ - as in away from you.


it's not your fault honey sometimes the stabilizer bar is on the top.










Christine


----------



## flamingoyster

Gave up for now...just can't seem to get it to come off. Will try again later lol


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


drjoey1500 I don't think you can.

...


Can you elaborate? It what way? I know they both have a tactile bump...but any reasons why the cherries are better?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


Can you elaborate? It what way? I know they both have a tactile bump...but any reasons why the cherries are better?


I think she thinks that it's just really difficult to compare them. It might be like trying to compare apples to oranges or something.


----------



## Otterclock

I wish there were a retail place that sold mechanicals. I hate buying something online that I've never tried, and even picking up a cheaper model just to try the keys is like 40-50 bucks. For all I know I'm some kind of freak and won't like it. I do know that I kinda like the soft "thunk" that membrane provides, so the RealForce type boards seem ideal, but $250 is steep. I watched a Youtube vid of it, and the sound it made seemed perrrrfect. I could almost feel it, and it has textured keys which I tried before and like. But I make a modest living.

I'm almost leaning towards a Das, just because of the 30 day no questions asked return policy; that way if I find out I definitely like the mechanical switch but maybe not the click, I can go brown after trying blue (I actually tend to prefer a bit more quiet, or more accurately, lower pitched, and after hearing the browns they seem more appealing). The Adesso looks interesting, even. This is gonna take time...

edit: ok now after watching/hearing the filco brown in action I'm leaning that way..is the n-key rollover version really necessary as a casual gamer? I've never experienced issues gaming with any keyboard, as I rarely use more than WASD and the spacebar. Does that nkro performance manifest itself any other way?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

NKRO isn't really a requirement or anything for gaming. I game just fine on the Model M with 2KRO, and I think the non-NKRO Filcos/Das use the same IBM matrix. NKRO is nice to have, but you can do without it.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


NKRO isn't really a requirement or anything for gaming. I game just fine on the Model M with 2KRO, and I think the non-NKRO Filcos/Das use the same IBM matrix. NKRO is nice to have, but you can do without it.


I'm going to have to completely disagree. 2 keys is not enough for almost any game. That would mean you couldn't jump up to the right, and couldn't jump/crouch.


----------



## sotorious

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I'm going to have to completely disagree. 2 keys is not enough for almost any game. That would mean you couldn't jump up to the right, and couldn't jump/crouch.


^This when playing cs on my saitek i cant walk and hit my vent talk buttton at the same time, i would have to stop walking to actually speak.

As for the other persons saying that you may be some sort of freak and not liking them, i feel the same exact way but i took the dive cause i always liked clacky keyboards, i get my board on Thursday i will def let you know how it goes.


----------



## Otterclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I'm going to have to completely disagree. 2 keys is not enough for almost any game. That would mean you couldn't jump up to the right, and couldn't jump/crouch.


I thought regular keyboards still allowed for 4 or 6 simultaneous or something. I've always been able to move and jump/crouch on the non gaming boards I've owned. Heck, even circle strafe or diagonal while jumping has been no issue and that's 3 keys. I've never experienced simultaneous key issues with any board, and thought it was something that was just a concern for people whose skill far exceeded mine (everyone), or who had octopus hands.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Otterclock*


I thought regular keyboards still allowed for 4 or 6 simultaneous or something. I've always been able to move and jump/crouch on the non gaming boards I've owned. Heck, even circle strafe or diagonal while jumping has been no issue and that's 3 keys. I've never experienced simultaneous key issues with any board, and thought it was something that was just a concern for people whose skill far exceeded mine (everyone), or who had octopus hands.


6 is the maximum they can allow over USB, many allow less.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I'm going to have to completely disagree. 2 keys is not enough for almost any game. That would mean you couldn't jump up to the right, and couldn't jump/crouch.


2KRO doesn't mean that no matter what only 2 keys will go through. It means that it's the _smallest_ combination of keys that will result in a block - not the largest.

With the IBM matrix for example, you can still press the entire home row of keys at once. 11 keys. But because you can still get the 3rd key blocked on some other combination, it's called 2KRO.

The IBM matrix is actually just fine for WASD gaming.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I'm going to have to completely disagree. 2 keys is not enough for almost any game. That would mean you couldn't jump up to the right, and couldn't jump/crouch.


I used to go nuts on a old logitech wireless keyboard playing racing games like GTR. Imagining not being able to shift, clutch, break or accurate, and turn at the same time.

But if 2kro on a m don't result in block then it something different completely.

Hopefully I'll have some pics up of the new keyboard soon.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I'm going to have to completely disagree. 2 keys is not enough for almost any game. That would mean you couldn't jump up to the right, and couldn't jump/crouch.


2KRO means MINIMUM two keys that can be pressed at once. And the matrix is very full around the WASD cluster. Virtually all gaming combinations work (for instance Shift+A+W+R+Space).

Only time I've ever really wished I had NKRO is while playing Dragon Age: Origins, maneuvering my character and trying to access a menu or something at the same time. I've gotten one or two blocks there. But that's a minor thing. Standard WASD? Works perfect.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Well that's the thing, it varies with different games. To reuse the old GTR racing game example: a and z was to accelrate or break. ctrl and space to shift with q held as clutch. Then , and . keys were used to steer. Why wouldn't I use left or right arrows? Well I tried but the keys kept getting stuck. At least with , and . on my old keyboard it opened up another key to be used during game play.

But I assume that for other games it may not have any impact.


----------



## PsikyoJebus

My cousin's birthday is coming along. He's a writer and has no idea these types of keyboards exist......boy is he gonna be impressed with his Majestouch with MX blues, hahaha. I also ordered myself a tenkeyless filco with MX browns, should save me some desk space and help me game a little better.


----------



## Manyak

haha awesome, I hope he likes it


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PsikyoJebus*


My cousin's birthday is coming along. He's a writer and has no idea these types of keyboards exist......boy is he gonna be impressed with his Majestouch with MX blues, hahaha. I also ordered myself a tenkeyless filco with MX browns, should save me some desk space and help me game a little better.


You wanna be my Broseft?

Gratz to the both of you. Some nice boards you've got.


----------



## PsikyoJebus

Yeah....there goes a good chunk of my tax return. Oh well....money well spent is money well spent.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Hey, my Canadian friend I mentioned a while back? Who actually tore through his last keyboard's membrane through normal use? He just got his Das Professional S the other day, and I can tell he likes it... his IM messages are about three times longer than they used to be.


----------



## Manyak

lol


----------



## yellowtoblerone

lol.

'

Buy him a microfiber towel to clean that Das 23 times a day.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

You're the one in Canada, you should do it since you won't have to pay as much for shipping.







Unless you live out in the middle of nowhere or in Vancouver or something...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PsikyoJebus* 
My cousin's birthday is coming along. He's a writer and has no idea these types of keyboards exist......boy is he gonna be impressed with his Majestouch with MX blues, hahaha. I also ordered myself a tenkeyless filco with MX browns, should save me some desk space and help me game a little better.

Whoa! Did you get him the Tactile Click NKRO, or just the plain Tactile Click? Was it also the 104-key or Tenkeyless? Either way, I really wish I had family like you. Dude. You are awesome. I mean, I have the 104-key Tactile Click NKRO, and I think I'm happier with my keyboard than I am with my entire system. I feel like I am literally savoring every single keystroke.

Oh yeah, and will this Tenkeyless Tactile Touch be your first Majestouch? Is it the NKRO version, or just the plain one?

hehe I'm all enthusiastic about mechanical keyboards now.







And I've only had my Tactile Click for 8 days now.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PsikyoJebus* 
Yeah....there goes a good chunk of my tax return. Oh well....money well spent is money well spent.

You got _that_ right! So, amen!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Hey, my Canadian friend I mentioned a while back? Who actually tore through his last keyboard's membrane through normal use? He just got his Das Professional S the other day, and I can tell he likes it... his IM messages are about three times longer than they used to be.









I lol'd

It's so true. My previous keyboard was the Lycosa (best keyboard I've ever had up until now), and now that I have the Tactile Click, I'm constantly looking for excuses to type. lol Like right now, I wish that I had about 10,000 more words to type.


----------



## Otterclock

I chickened out a bit and ordered a Scorpius M10. Partially due to the cost, but I actually liked the lower pitch click it makes over the Filco, at least from what I heard. Seems like a good starter. It appears to have a reputation for less than stellar quality control, which in a way is perfect: If I like it, I'll use it til it breaks then get a Filco..or Realforce.

Ships today from Buy, hopefully.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Otterclock*


I chickened out a bit and ordered a Scorpius M10. Partially due to the cost, but I actually liked the lower pitch click it makes over the Filco, at least from what I heard. Seems like a good starter. It appears to have a reputation for less than stellar quality control, which in a way is perfect: If I like it, I'll use it til it breaks then get a Filco..or Realforce.

Ships today from Buy, hopefully.


lol, you're still going to be waiting forever and a day for it to break - they fixed the soldering issues that they had.


----------



## nijikon5

TwoCables:
EliteKeyboards offers only the NKRO version of the Majestouch in Tenkeyless form. Anyone know if thats because the Tenkeyless is only offered with full NKRO support by Filco? Anyways, it's been 2 weeks since I've used a mechanical KB, left my PC at home so I can focus on finals. Time to game it up soon, will be finished with my last final in about 4 hours.

Still tempted atm to buy a White Otaku Tactile Click, have to resist. Need SSD + New Vid card first.


----------



## pow3rtr1p

Just ordered my Filco Majestouch Otaku with Cherry Blues when they came in stock this weekend.







Patiently waiting (sorta...)


----------



## garricktlee

OCN is a love/hate kind of thing to me.
Just made me spend $164.22 because of how convincing you guys are.
More than double the G15, I canceled my order with Amazon to buy this.
Anyways, from what I'm hoping its going to be worth it.
Can't wait for my FILCO Majestouch 104-key NKRO Cherry Blues,
even got the purple keys since I'm already spending that much,
so why not make it look special!

Edit: Just realized It's also going to be the most expensive part of my whole setup.
I guess it should last me throughout upgrades, so i shouldn't feel bad.


----------



## TwoCables

Yay! More excuses to type on my Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO! Thank you!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


TwoCables:
EliteKeyboards offers only the NKRO version of the Majestouch in Tenkeyless form.


Oh hey! Check that out! I'm glad I asked! hehe (I just looked at their site to see what you're talking about).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Anyone know if thats because the Tenkeyless is only offered with full NKRO support by Filco? Anyways, it's been 2 weeks since I've used a mechanical KB, left my PC at home so I can focus on finals. Time to game it up soon, will be finished with my last final in about 4 hours.


Whoa, 2 weeks? Ouch.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Still tempted atm to buy a White Otaku Tactile Click, have to resist. Need SSD + New Vid card first.


I imagine that if they were to come out with a 104-key White Otaku Tactile Click with NKRO that I'd be all over it. I've never had a white keyboard before. I might even have to put the black keycaps on it! I mean, take a look at this:

http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...id=fkb10487prn

Now just imagine that it's a white keyboard with those black keycaps.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pow3rtr1p*


Just ordered my Filco Majestouch Otaku with Cherry Blues when they came in stock this weekend.







Patiently waiting (sorta...)










oooo nice. Which Otaku Tactile Click did you get exactly?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *garricktlee*


OCN is a love/hate kind of thing to me.
Just made me spend $164.22 because of how convincing you guys are.
More than double the G15, I canceled my order with Amazon to buy this.
Anyways, from what I'm hoping its going to be worth it.
Can't wait for my FILCO Majestouch 104-key NKRO Cherry Blues,
even got the purple keys since I'm already spending that much,
so why not make it look special!

Edit: Just realized It's also going to be the most expensive part of my whole setup.
I guess it should last me throughout upgrades, so i shouldn't feel bad.


Oh man, you're gonna love your new Majestouch Tactile Click!! I'm a bit excited for you too!


----------



## pow3rtr1p

I got this one: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...d=fkbn87mcnpek


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pow3rtr1p*


I got this one: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...d=fkbn87mcnpek


Oh that's pretty.


----------



## garricktlee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pow3rtr1p*


I got this one: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...d=fkbn87mcnpek


I can type by touch, but i cant memorize the [email protected]#$%^&*()[];' basically all the symbols, Looks really nice though. I got mine printed.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *garricktlee*


I can type by touch, but i cant memorize the [email protected]#$%^&*()[];' basically all the symbols, Looks really nice though. I got mine printed.


It sounds to me like you need to use the same kind of book that I used for learning how to type. It even made me drill those symbols. So, if I really wanted to go with the blank caps, then I guess I probably could.


----------



## garricktlee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
It sounds to me like you need to use the same kind of book that I used for learning how to type. It even made me drill those symbols. So, if I really wanted to go with the blank caps, then I guess I probably could.









Haha maybe, Everytime i try and guess a symbol, I end up backspacing and trying again so many times


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *garricktlee* 
Haha maybe, Everytime i try and guess a symbol, I end up backspacing and trying again so many times









Eventually you'll get the hang of it. I got a blank keyboard and went through it too, but now I've got them memorized. Though I still sometimes pause for a quick second after hitting one, kind of making sure that I got the right one lol.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *garricktlee* 
Haha maybe, Everytime i try and guess a symbol, I end up backspacing and trying again so many times









I bet that if you bought the blank keycaps then you'd definitely memorize them fairly quickly. I mean, it would force you to.


----------



## yawnbox

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pow3rtr1p* 
I got this one: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...d=fkbn87mcnpek

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Oh that's pretty.



It's flippin beautiful. How many are they making of this SE?

* i don't need another one *

* I don't need another one *


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Well you're a better man than me. I went ahead and bought the White Otaku tactile a while ago. No more ice cream for me anymore.

The only tenkeyless I've ever seen always had NKRO.


----------



## Crazy9000

The only issue I have with the blank keycaps on my das, is it does take a little longer when you take your hands off the keyboard to get them over the right keys.

It does make you feel pretty cool when you just want to type a few letters and are standing up, and just press the right keys with a finger by just glancing at the keyboard though.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


The only issue I have with the blank keycaps on my das, is it does take a little longer when you take your hands off the keyboard to get them over the right keys.

It does make you feel pretty cool when you just want to type a few letters and are standing up, and just press the right keys with a finger by just glancing at the keyboard though.


Oh, so it doesn't have those little bumps on the 'F' and 'J' keys?


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *garricktlee*


I can type by touch, but i cant memorize the [email protected]#$%^&*()[];' basically all the symbols, Looks really nice though. I got mine printed.


1. Get a Otaku Tenkeyless
2. Find online hos on yahoo to chat with
3. Make lots of emoticon faces to practice non-letter keys
4. ?????????
5. Profit

TwoCables:
If they made a 104-Key White Filco, I might just accidentally my whole SSD fund.

Yes, Accidentally my whole SSD fund, not a typo.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


1. Get a Otaku Tenkeyless
2. Find online hos on yahoo to chat with
3. Make lots of emoticon faces to practice non-letter keys
4. ?????????
5. Profit

TwoCables:
If they made a 104-Key White Filco, I might just accidentally my whole SSD fund.

Yes, Accidentally my whole SSD fund, not a typo.


hehehehehe aw damn that made me lol hard.







But I agree: I'd end up awfully broke!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Oh, so it doesn't have those little bumps on the 'F' and 'J' keys?


It does, but normally you just glance down and put your hands on the right keys instantly, instead of feeling for the bumps. It's probably not even something you think about before you do it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
It does, but normally you just glance down and put your hands on the right keys instantly, instead of feeling for the bumps. It's probably not even something you think about before you do it.

Whoa. I didn't realize this until just now, but I never glance down before putting my fingers on the home row. I just put them there and start typing. And what's more, I'm also realizing right now that if I miss the home row, then I just blindly move them around for a second or two until I feel those bumps.

But I'm also realizing that I almost never miss the home row, even if I take my hands away and put them back. I honestly can't remember the last time I looked at the keyboard to get my hands positioned on the home row. I also honestly can't remember the last time I missed the home row.

Wow. What a crazy realization this is for me.


----------



## sotorious

My keyboard comes in tomorrow









on another note i wish i learned how to type in homerow, i would be so so so much faster, but ive mastered the "sotorious technique".


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


My keyboard comes in tomorrow









on another note i wish i learned how to type in homerow, i would be so so so much faster, but ive mastered the "sotorious technique".


Yeah, and now if you were to try and learn how to Touch Type, it would be pretty difficult to break all of your current habits. However, it can still be done (and it would be well worth it).

But if you ever decide to learn how to Touch Type, then do yourself a huge favor and learn from a book instead of software. Learning from a book gives you the skill of being able to type without looking at the monitor. It will teach you why it's called _Touch_ Typing. You'll have a very instinctive ability to instantly Backspace any typos strictly by feel alone. And you know what they say, "The hand is quicker than the eye".

But learning how to Touch Type using software or something will cause you to remain dependent on sight (you may not be able to type properly without watching the output on your monitor). This would then have to be called "Sight Typing" or something.

Anyway, I'm excited for you that you're getting the keyboard tomorrow!!!!!! Woo-hoo!!


----------



## lmnop

I guess I was wrong a company has painted a back plate. pretty nice. this is a Costar model from a company called KBC that was started by a keyboard enthusiast they are identical to Filco but they have multimedia and hot keys in their Ducky lineup, they are a little cheaper than Filco and since the owner is a mechanical keyboard enthusiast he will release models like this one which is a limited edition to celebrate 1 year of KBC. a couple geekhack members ordered some Ducky models from Asia.

Christine


----------



## sotorious

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Yeah, and now if you were to try and learn how to Touch Type, it would be pretty difficult to break all of your current habits. However, it can still be done (and it would be well worth it).

But if you ever decide to learn how to Touch Type, then do yourself a huge favor and learn from a book instead of software. Learning from a book gives you the skill of being able to type without looking at the monitor. It will teach you why it's called _Touch_ Typing. You'll have a very instinctive ability to instantly Backspace any typos strictly by feel alone. And you know what they say, "The hand is quicker than the eye".

But learning how to Touch Type using software or something will cause you to remain dependent on sight (you may not be able to type properly without watching the output on your monitor). This would then have to be called "Sight Typing" or something.

Anyway, I'm excited for you that you're getting the keyboard tomorrow!!!!!! Woo-hoo!!


as far as touch typing i dont have to be looking at anything to type, i just dont have the proper form, i can be looking at someone while typing, i just typed this whole message looking at a calculator.

and thank you! i will def post my thoughts on the keyboard as soon as i smack that thing into play.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
as far as touch typing i dont have to be looking at anything to type, i just dont have the proper form, i can be looking at someone while typing, i just typed this whole message looking at a calculator.

Whoa! How long have you been typing like this? That's pretty impressive!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
and thank you! i will def post my thoughts on the keyboard as soon as i smack that thing into play.

You're welcome! Oh, and if you can, try to wait a few days or more before you replace the black Esc key with the red one. I think you'll be able to appreciate it much more that way. hehe


----------



## pow3rtr1p

I got used to typing on a Spanish keyboard, where alot of the [email protected]#$%^&*() were out of order, so I had to learn what was what, anyway.

I also got the WASD kit to make it even cooler.


----------



## sotorious

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Whoa! How long have you been typing like this? That's pretty impressive!

You're welcome! Oh, and if you can, try to wait a few days or more before you replace the black Esc key with the red one. I think you'll be able to appreciate it much more that way. hehe









hahaha i am going to need to take that off with care, cause with my current keyboard i take a scissor and stick it under the key and push up. Anyway taking it with out damaging a key?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
hahaha i am going to need to take that off with care, cause with my current keyboard i take a scissor and stick it under the key and push up. Anyway taking it with out damaging a key?

you can order a key cap puller form Filco or Hooleon. you can also make your own with 2 paper clips or use a flat head screwdriver.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
hahaha i am going to need to take that off with care, cause with my current keyboard i take a scissor and stick it under the key and push up. Anyway taking it with out damaging a key?

I don't know because I ordered the keycap puller with my board.









I suppose if you were to get two skinny paperclips, unbend them all the way and then bend them so that they both have two 90Â° angles in order for it to slip underneath the keycap, then you could use that (the 2 paperclips) as a ghetto (but safe) keycap puller.


----------



## sotorious

that i will have to do.


----------



## Crazy9000

I use the end of an old 56k modem. The tab you screw into your PC on any PCI/PCI-e card works perfectly to pop keys off.


----------



## Otterclock

M10 arrives Friday, and I just impulse bought a Cherry MX11900 off Ebay for $15 including shipping. Has cherry blacks. I figured just trying the blacks for fun is worth 15 bucks. The fact that I bought a second cherry switch board before my first one arrived is a bit foreboding.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But if you ever decide to learn how to Touch Type, then do yourself a huge favor and learn from a book instead of software. Learning from a book gives you the skill of being able to type without looking at the monitor. It will teach you why it's called _Touch_ Typing. You'll have a very instinctive ability to instantly Backspace any typos strictly by feel alone. And you know what they say, "The hand is quicker than the eye".

But learning how to Touch Type using software or something will cause you to remain dependent on sight (you may not be able to type properly without watching the output on your monitor). This would then have to be called "Sight Typing" or something.

I had touch typing lessons with software when I was in primary school for half a year and I touch type pretty well. I probably overuse my stronger fingers a bit but like you said I know when I make an error before seeing it.

Just typed this message with my eyes closed and listening to music







(including the ())

Off topic a bit, but once a roommate of mine saw me touch typing and said woah! where did you learn that? I told him and he was impressed for a second, then he said that this skill was old school and that nowadays it wasn't needed.







hellooo emails?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I had touch typing lessons with software when I was in primary school for half a year and I touch type pretty well. I probably overuse my stronger fingers a bit but like you said I know when I make an error before seeing it.

Just typed this message with my eyes closed and listening to music







(including the ())

Off topic a bit, but once a roommate of mine saw me touch typing and said woah! where did you learn that? I told him and he was impressed for a second, then he said that this skill was old school and that nowadays it wasn't needed.







hellooo emails?

lol!

Well technically he's right, it's not _needed_ because you can still hunt and peck and end up with the same result. But I'd absolutely hate having to do that.


----------



## olli3

Lol I cant see how typing could be not needed, surely its used now more than it ever was? Its not like anything else has come along that's replaced typing. Voice recognition and handwriting recognition are both pretty useless and probably slower than you could type if your fast at it I'd imagine. (certainly for writing at least lol)

I really think everyone should be taught typing at school, I wish I had learnt to type properly a lot earlier, would have helped a lot with all my uni work! Better late than never to learn though.


----------



## sotorious

Quote:



Originally Posted by *olli3*


Lol I cant see how typing could be not needed, surely its used now more than it ever was? Its not like anything else has come along that's replaced typing. Voice recognition and handwriting recognition are both pretty useless and probably slower than you could type if your fast at it I'd imagine. (certainly for writing at least lol)

I really think everyone should be taught typing at school, I wish I had learnt to type properly a lot earlier, would have helped a lot with all my uni work! Better late than never to learn though.


Back in school i just didn't like the idea they on how they were making me type in home row when i knew i could type so much better.... the way i am typing now, but 10 years later i realize why they were doing it that way. Its the quickest most reliable way.... stupid me..


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I had touch typing lessons with software when I was in primary school for half a year and I touch type pretty well. I probably overuse my stronger fingers a bit but like you said I know when I make an error before seeing it.

Just typed this message with my eyes closed and listening to music







(including the ())

Oh. So then I gladly stand corrected. I honestly believed that if I had learned from software, then I'd depend on the output I can see on the monitor as opposed to the feel. I mean, I thought that learning from a text book gave me a valuable skill that just can't be obtained when using software that forces you to watch the monitor while you type. But what I think I'm forgetting is that most typing tutor software forces you to look away from your typing output while you're typing. After all, how else are you going to type the things it's asking you to type? lol









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Off topic a bit, but once a roommate of mine saw me touch typing and said woah! where did you learn that? I told him and he was impressed for a second, then he said that this skill was old school and that nowadays it wasn't needed.







hellooo emails?

Aw. How cute. He's jealous of you. Don't mind his ignorance, my friend. This is normal human behavior for jealousy.

Hey sotorious: is your keyboard out for delivery?? I kinda figured that you'd have it by now.







Or is it being delivered tomorrow? I think I forgot.


----------



## sotorious

Ok it has arived, haha this thing is loud people are going to be able to hear me typing through out the house but that is alright.

First thoughts? this thing feels wonderful. I can see how people say it is much easier to type on, i am definatly going to have to get used to the noise, i am also used to bottoming out its kind of hard for me to type soft since i am so used it. I must say though i love the sound. This thing is as solid as a rock. anyone who was having any doubts of getting one i suggest you change your mind. If you mind the noise though this thing is a bit noisy i must say, ahahaha i cant stop typing... anyway

Overall I love this thing it is so much easier for me to type. Thing is heavy, so if anyone ever try's to break into my house i already have my weapon of choice









it feels like i am typing on a type writer and i have always enjoyed that sound. I think now i am going to do my homework which involves typing a paper up







man i just wanna bash on these keys all damn day IT WAS WORTH EVERY PENNY.

edit: another great thing is the ps2 connector, frees up more usbs







i'd never thought i would get so excited over a keyboard...

next mission removing the escape key.


----------



## olli3

I think you will get used to the sound of the keys quickly and you will only hear them sub-consciously after a while







I've got cherry browns on my board though so I haven't actually heard any clicky switches myself (one day...soon...)

And as for using your keyboard as a weapon, I'm sure it would do some damage xD Would probably still work fine afterwards too lmao. I was shocked how heavy mine was when I got it, keeps it planted nice and solid on the desk that's for sure!


----------



## sotorious

Quote:



Originally Posted by *olli3*


I think you will get used to the sound of the keys quickly and you will only hear them sub-consciously after a while







I've got cherry browns on my board though so I haven't actually heard any clicky switches myself (one day...soon...)

And as for using your keyboard as a weapon, I'm sure it would do some damage xD Would probably still work fine afterwards too lmao. I was shocked how heavy mine was when I got it, keeps it planted nice and solid on the desk that's for sure!


Yea i love that. This thing is amazing. I don't know why i did not get it a long time ago, but then again if i did it wouldnt be as new as it is now. That clicky sound just does something to me deep down inside, feels like my typing has a lot more feeling behind it. To bad you guys cant see the emotions behind the txt.

Good thing is if i do end up typing light is isnt as loud when it bottoms out so if i wanted to be semi silent it will allow me 2.

The only problem i see for the near future is my talk button is caps lock and as i have read the keys fade to a shiny black (which is fine with me as long as the lettering does not rub off, but my caps lock will be the first thing to go shiny.


----------



## olli3

I'd imagine it will take a while for the keys to go shiny, and you can always buy another set of key caps if you want it looking fresh







I don't think they are that expensive either.


----------



## lmnop

buy another set of key caps or a cheap Cherry keyboard off eBay that has thicker double shot or laser etched key caps and replace them. see this post.

Christine


----------



## sotorious

I will keep those in mind when it comes time to do so.

Also as a minor update, idk how i feel about gaming with tactile feedback feels a bit weird i will have to get used to it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


Ok it has arived, haha this thing is loud people are going to be able to hear me typing through out the house but that is alright.


I highly recommend typing extremely gently. Get used to just _touching_ the keys as opposed to _pressing_ them. By this, I mean pretend like the keyboard is extremely fragile. Or pretend like you have somebody trying to sleep 3 feet away from the keyboard in the same room as you. I have found that when I don't bottom out at all on this keyboard, then my typing is absolutely silent with the exception of the subtle click.

I also recommend using Notepad to practice. What I'm about to recommend will sound silly and you may even be resistant to doing it for how silly you might feel, but just type whatever comes to your head in Notepad. Literally. Just type anything. Pretend like you're writing a journal or a diary or something. But the point is to just practice. If you need help getting started, then just talk about the keyboard inside of Notepad. But while doing it, try typing as gently as you can physically type. Force yourself to type so gently that you start making mistakes and so that you start missing letters because you're not pressing hard enough. But above all: you must type slowly for now in order to learn how to avoid bottoming out.

Another way to get yourself to type super-gently is to pretend like you're extremely happy. I mean, I have noticed that when I'm not so happy, I tend to bottom out every single keystroke because I'm basically yelling with my keyboard. Otherwise, it's really easy to remember to type so gently, that I never bottom out any of the keys.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


First thoughts? this thing feels wonderful. I can see how people say it is much easier to type on, i am definatly going to have to get used to the noise, i am also used to bottoming out its kind of hard for me to type soft since i am so used it. I must say though i love the sound. This thing is as solid as a rock. anyone who was having any doubts of getting one i suggest you change your mind. If you mind the noise though this thing is a bit noisy i must say, ahahaha i cant stop typing... anyway


I know how you feel about not being able to stop typing. I'm constantly looking for excuses to type now. I hate to admit this, but I came up with the idea of using Notepad by my desire to find an excuse to type. All of the sudden I found myself typing in Notepad. I will just sit and type anything and everything that comes to my head. I've done that 2 days in a row now, and the end result is that I am already bottoming out much less now. I'd say that I bottom out about 25% of the time. Actually, my hands are really nice and warm right now (and dry too), so I'm pretty much not bottoming out at all at this moment. Well, I'm also really calm too (partly because this keyboard makes me happy).









I also know how you feel about being so used to bottoming out. When I typed on this keyboard for the first time, I found it nearly impossible to type this gently. I mean, I just didn't know how to do it. But I discovered that all it takes is a little bit of forced practice. But I also have to force myself to type slower so that I can focus on not bottoming out. You see, I know that the more and more I do this, the faster and faster I will become and typing on this keyboard without bottoming out. The key is to gradually reprogram my muscle memory so that I no longer have to think about it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


Overall I love this thing it is so much easier for me to type. Thing is heavy, so if anyone ever try's to break into my house i already have my weapon of choice










hehe you could put a sign on your door that says, "Warning: I have a Filco Majestouch and I know how to use it."

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


it feels like i am typing on a type writer and i have always enjoyed that sound.


Fortunately, this keyboard is dead silent in comparison to a typewriter.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


I think now i am going to do my homework which involves typing a paper up







man i just wanna bash on these keys all damn day IT WAS WORTH EVERY PENNY.


And again, if you ever just feel like typing, then open Notepad and go for it!!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


edit: another great thing is the ps2 connector, frees up more usbs







i'd never thought i would get so excited over a keyboard...


Same here. It's like I've said before: I think I am happier with my keyboard than I am with my entire computer system.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


next mission removing the escape key.


But remember: the longer you wait on that, the more you will appreciate what the red Esc key does for the appearance of this keyboard!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


Yea i love that. This thing is amazing. I don't know why i did not get it a long time ago, but then again if i did it wouldnt be as new as it is now.


lol I like that thinking! That's how I felt about going from my Lycosa to the Majestouch: I wished that I had done it sooner, but then I realized that the timing was perfect.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


That clicky sound just does something to me deep down inside, feels like my typing has a lot more feeling behind it. To bad you guys cant see the emotions behind the txt.


You're not alone there! I remember comparing YouTube videos where I had videos up of both the Tactile Click and the Tactile Touch. I liked the Tactile Touch, but every time I heard the subtle, crisp click of the Cherry MX Blues, I think it made my heart flutter or something. It is just such a satisfying sound. I remember going back to the videos of the Tactile Touch and thinking about how boring they sounded to me. And then when I finally began typing on my new Tactile Click for the first time, I got that feeling all over again, except it was a bit intensified since it was for real this time! I have to admit that one of the reasons I have such a strong desire to be able to type without bottoming out _at all_ is so that I can isolate that wonderful click!!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


Good thing is if i do end up typing light is isnt as loud when it bottoms out so if i wanted to be semi silent it will allow me 2.


When I was shopping for keyboards, one of my requirements was a dead silent keyboard - like those dead silent laptops. I mean, I need to be very stealthy most days out of every week, so this requirement absolutely had to be met. But fast forward to today: when I'm not bottoming out on this keyboard (or if I'm just gently bottoming out), it is absolutely quiet enough for me to be as stealthy as I need it to be. That subtle click is just loud enough for me, and for me only.









In other words: this keyboard meets my strict requirements for sound.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


The only problem i see for the near future is my talk button is caps lock and as i have read the keys fade to a shiny black (which is fine with me as long as the lettering does not rub off, but my caps lock will be the first thing to go shiny.


The lettering will eventually rub off and I also heard that these keys should become shiny, but fortunately, that should take a long time to happen since all that's needed is 50 grams of force on each key. That's approximately the weight of 50 paperclips!

But when it does happen, it's nice to know that we can buy identical replacement keycaps from Elite Keyboards for only $35 before shipping:

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...id=fkb10487prn

Or, blank ones for $31:

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...s&pid=fkb10487

Be sure to include the keycap puller for $4.00:

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...aps&pid=pls118










Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


I will keep those in mind when it comes time to do so.

Also as a minor update, idk how i feel about gaming with tactile feedback feels a bit weird i will have to get used to it.


I know what you mean. It's different. But once you are used to it, I think you'll find that you like it much better than any of those rubber dome membrane boards.


----------



## sotorious

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I highly recommend typing extremely gently. Get used to just _touching_ the keys as opposed to _pressing_ them. By this, I mean pretend like the keyboard is extremely fragile. Or pretend like you have somebody trying to sleep 3 feet away from the keyboard in the same room as you. I have found that when I don't bottom out at all on this keyboard, then my typing is absolutely silent with the exception of the subtle click.

I also recommend using Notepad to practice. What I'm about to recommend will sound silly and you may even be resistant to doing it for how silly you might feel, but just type whatever comes to your head in Notepad. Literally. Just type anything. Pretend like you're writing a journal or a diary or something. But the point is to just practice. If you need help getting started, then just talk about the keyboard inside of Notepad. But while doing it, try typing as gently as you can physically type. Force yourself to type so gently that you start making mistakes and so that you start missing letters because you're not pressing hard enough. But above all: you must type slowly for now in order to learn how to avoid bottoming out.

Another way to get yourself to type super-gently is to pretend like you're extremely happy. I mean, I have noticed that when I'm not so happy, I tend to bottom out every single keystroke because I'm basically yelling with my keyboard. Otherwise, it's really easy to remember to type so gently, that I never bottom out any of the keys.

I know how you feel about not being able to stop typing. I'm constantly looking for excuses to type now. I hate to admit this, but I came up with the idea of using Notepad by my desire to find an excuse to type. All of the sudden I found myself typing in Notepad. I will just sit and type anything and everything that comes to my head. I've done that 2 days in a row now, and the end result is that I am already bottoming out much less now. I'd say that I bottom out about 25% of the time. Actually, my hands are really nice and warm right now (and dry too), so I'm pretty much not bottoming out at all at this moment. Well, I'm also really calm too (partly because this keyboard makes me happy).









I also know how you feel about being so used to bottoming out. When I typed on this keyboard for the first time, I found it nearly impossible to type this gently. I mean, I just didn't know how to do it. But I discovered that all it takes is a little bit of forced practice. But I also have to force myself to type slower so that I can focus on not bottoming out. You see, I know that the more and more I do this, the faster and faster I will become and typing on this keyboard without bottoming out. The key is to gradually reprogram my muscle memory so that I no longer have to think about it.

hehe you could put a sign on your door that says, "Warning: I have a Filco Majestouch and I know how to use it."

Fortunately, this keyboard is dead silent in comparison to a typewriter.









And again, if you ever just feel like typing, then open Notepad and go for it!!

Same here. It's like I've said before: I think I am happier with my keyboard than I am with my entire computer system.

But remember: the longer you wait on that, the more you will appreciate what the red Esc key does for the appearance of this keyboard!

lol I like that thinking! That's how I felt about going from my Lycosa to the Majestouch: I wished that I had done it sooner, but then I realized that the timing was perfect.









You're not alone there! I remember comparing YouTube videos where I had videos up of both the Tactile Click and the Tactile Touch. I liked the Tactile Touch, but every time I heard the subtle, crisp click of the Cherry MX Blues, I think it made my heart flutter or something. It is just such a satisfying sound. I remember going back to the videos of the Tactile Touch and thinking about how boring they sounded to me. And then when I finally began typing on my new Tactile Click for the first time, I got that feeling all over again, except it was a bit intensified since it was for real this time! I have to admit that one of the reasons I have such a strong desire to be able to type without bottoming out _at all_ is so that I can isolate that wonderful click!!









When I was shopping for keyboards, one of my requirements was a dead silent keyboard - like those dead silent laptops. I mean, I need to be very stealthy most days out of every week, so this requirement absolutely had to be met. But fast forward to today: when I'm not bottoming out on this keyboard (or if I'm just gently bottoming out), it is absolutely quiet enough for me to be as stealthy as I need it to be. That subtle click is just loud enough for me, and for me only.









In other words: this keyboard meets my strict requirements for sound.

The lettering will eventually rub off and I also heard that these keys should become shiny, but fortunately, that should take a long time to happen since all that's needed is 50 grams of force on each key. That's approximately the weight of 50 paperclips!

But when it does happen, it's nice to know that we can buy identical replacement keycaps from Elite Keyboards for only $35 before shipping:

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...id=fkb10487prn

Or, blank ones for $31:

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...s&pid=fkb10487

Be sure to include the keycap puller for $4.00:

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...aps&pid=pls118










I know what you mean. It's different. But once you are used to it, I think you'll find that you like it much better than any of those rubber dome membrane boards.


Beautiful response. For the next few weeks its going to be amazing to be able to sit down on my computer and it feel brand new again with this keyboard. They only sucky thing is now, i am turned of to all other keyboards so when i go to work tomorrow and type on that crusty keyboard it is going to be very disappointing but when i get home its going to make me enjoy my keyboard even more.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


Beautiful response. For the next few weeks its going to be amazing to be able to sit down on my computer and it feel brand new again with this keyboard. They only sucky thing is now, i am turned of to all other keyboards so when i go to work tomorrow and type on that crusty keyboard it is going to be very disappointing but when i get home its going to make me enjoy my keyboard even more.


To be honest, I bet that I would find a way to start bringing my keyboard to and from work. Although, I wouldn't be so hot on the idea of wearing out the plug like that.


----------



## sotorious

hopefully maybe one day towards the near future if filco could release one a bit more i guess lets say cheaply made, but still have this great feel.

God i feel like going into a courtroom and be that person sitting in the middle of the room with this keyboard and a bitty monitor just typing everything they are saying!!!!!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
hopefully maybe one day towards the near future if filco could release one a bit more i guess lets say cheaply made, but still have this great feel.

God i feel like going into a courtroom and be that person sitting in the middle of the room with this keyboard and a bitty monitor just typing everything they are saying!!!!!

lol oh man, I so have the same love for this keyboard. That's what made me open up Notepad a couple of days ago so that I could just type whatever came to my mind.







I figured it was a much better alternative to finding a chat room.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Oh. So then I gladly stand corrected. I honestly believed that if I had learned from software, then I'd depend on the output I can see on the monitor as opposed to the feel. I mean, I thought that learning from a text book gave me a valuable skill that just can't be obtained when using software that forces you to watch the monitor while you type. But what I think I'm forgetting is that most typing tutor software forces you to look away from your typing output while you're typing. After all, how else are you going to type the things it's asking you to type? lol









Most of them, but not the first one I used. It put the characters you typed one line below the characters you were supposed to type and then would put it in red if it was wrong. TBH that was kind of crippling. That was when I was pretty young. A few years later I started learning from an old book, it was like a full size notebook with a stand so you have to look at it and type the letters. That helped a lot, and tbh I highly recommend learning at least partly that way.

Mavis Beacon FTL.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
Ok it has arived, haha this thing is loud people are going to be able to hear me typing through out the house but that is alright.

First thoughts? this thing feels wonderful. I can see how people say it is much easier to type on, i am definatly going to have to get used to the noise, i am also used to bottoming out its kind of hard for me to type soft since i am so used it. I must say though i love the sound. This thing is as solid as a rock. anyone who was having any doubts of getting one i suggest you change your mind. If you mind the noise though this thing is a bit noisy i must say, ahahaha i cant stop typing... anyway

Overall I love this thing it is so much easier for me to type. Thing is heavy, so if anyone ever try's to break into my house i already have my weapon of choice









it feels like i am typing on a type writer and i have always enjoyed that sound. I think now i am going to do my homework which involves typing a paper up







man i just wanna bash on these keys all damn day IT WAS WORTH EVERY PENNY.

edit: another great thing is the ps2 connector, frees up more usbs







i'd never thought i would get so excited over a keyboard...

next mission removing the escape key.

Lol yea. My first impression was "eew its clacky...gosh I feel like a nerd", but then after playing with it for a while (before I plugged it in, I was at a friends house) it started to get addicting. I really don't know why, but it just felt addicting to type on.

TBH I don't really care about the noise, but they are so much louder than rubber dome keyboards that everyone around you, or anyone that comes over can't help commenting on the loud clacky keyboard. To which I have to explain the whole idea of mechanical keyswitches and how they are actually good







.

*edit* just missed your post...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
lol oh man, I so have the same love for this keyboard. That's what made me open up Notepad a couple of days ago so that I could just type whatever came to my mind.







I figured it was a much better alternative to finding a chat room.

LOL. Maybe you should start keeping a journal


----------



## lmnop

i'm sorry but $35 for those keycaps is to much. the keycaps used on the Filco are no better than Logitech. thin polystyrene that are pad printed and the genius who ordered them thought it be a good idea to spray the entire keycap with a protective coating. for $30 you can order brand new set of Cherry POM keycaps that are Double Shot from Asia or you can do what I mentioned earlier and order a used Cherry keyboard off eBay and not only harvest the keycaps but the switches as well.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *drjoey1500* 
Most of them, but not the first one I used. It put the characters you typed one line below the characters you were supposed to type and then would put it in red if it was wrong. TBH that was kind of crippling. That was when I was pretty young. A few years later I started learning from an old book, it was like a full size notebook with a stand so you have to look at it and type the letters. That helped a lot, and tbh I highly recommend learning at least partly that way.

Mavis Beacon FTL.

Yep! Even though some software can be pretty good, I will never stop recommending using a good text book.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *drjoey1500* 
Lol yea. My first impression was "eew its clacky...gosh I feel like a nerd", but then after playing with it for a while (before I plugged it in, I was at a friends house) it started to get addicting. I really don't know why, but it just felt addicting to type on.

TBH I don't really care about the noise, but they are so much louder than rubber dome keyboards that everyone around you, or anyone that comes over can't help commenting on the loud clacky keyboard. To which I have to explain the whole idea of mechanical keyswitches and how they are actually good







.

This makes me even happier that I'm getting good at not bottoming out. Now I won't have people going, "dude.... what's up with your loud keyboard?" Instead, they might say "oooo I love that crisp click sound your keyboard makes".









Quote:


Originally Posted by *drjoey1500* 
*edit* just missed your post...

LOL. Maybe you should start keeping a journal









lol the thought had crossed my mind while I was doing it. I mean, doing that made me feel kinda good, so then I thought that perhaps I should keep a journal. I guess now I have an idea of why people keep a diary or a journal. It's kinda therapeutic.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
i'm sorry but $35 for those keycaps is to much. the keycaps used on the Filco are no better than Logitech. thin polystyrene that are pad printed and the genius who ordered them thought it be a good idea to spray the entire keycap with a protective coating. for $30 you can order brand new set of Cherry POM keycaps that are Double Shot from Asia or you can do what I mentioned earlier and order a used Cherry keyboard off eBay and not only harvest the keycaps but the switches as well.

Christine

Yeah well maybe some people would prefer to have the original, identical keycaps that their Majestouch came with.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
lol the thought had crossed my mind while I was doing it. I mean, doing that made me feel kinda good, so then I thought that perhaps I should keep a journal. I guess now I have an idea of why people keep a diary or a journal. It's kinda therapeutic.

Maybe it was inspired by the most awesome notebook ever and a $100 ball point pen back in the day







.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Yeah well maybe some people would prefer to have the original, identical keycaps that their Majestouch came with.

But this is OCN. Stock sucks







.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Yep! Even though some software can be pretty good, I will never stop recommending using a good text book.

This makes me even happier that I'm getting good at not bottoming out. Now I won't have people going, "dude.... what's up with your loud keyboard?" Instead, they might say "oooo I love that crisp click sound your keyboard makes".









lol the thought had crossed my mind while I was doing it. I mean, doing that made me feel kinda good, so then I thought that perhaps I should keep a journal. I guess now I have an idea of why people keep a diary or a journal. It's kinda therapeutic.

Yeah well maybe some people would prefer to have the original, identical keycaps that their Majestouch came with.

I don't think people who purchase a mechanical keyboard have any intention of letting it rot they belong to a special group of people whether they care to admit it or not. there are a lot of Filco owners at geekhack and a lot of them have a Filco altered in some shape or form. once you get over the shock and awe of your purchase you will move on to bigger and better.

Christine


----------



## sotorious

I've always had a thing for keyboards ever since i got into computers. I remember one time i was at a lan center and i really liked the keyboards there ( i was young at the time maybe 12 or 13 or so) and i liked they way they sounded, so i went up to the guy and said, Hey where did you get those keyboards from i like the way they sound. He was like dude your weird its just a 5 dollar keyboard and i dont remember where i got them from. I wanted him to trip over a chair and fall face first when he called me weird. To bad i was only 12 and i couldn't really talk smack, for one it probably wouldn't of sounded right and for 2 i liked that LAN center.

My curiousity now is if these will come back and maybe start coming with standard computers that you buy from the store, if they doing maybe cost would go down and i could own a whole collection of them.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


Maybe it was inspired by the most awesome notebook ever and a $100 ball point pen back in the day







.


_"This is the best damn pen I've ever used. I think I'll write with it every single day. But since I don't know what to write, I'll just write whatever comes to my mind"_

hehe









Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


But this is OCN. Stock sucks







.


I was referring to replacing the keys with the ones available from Elite Keyboards.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I don't think people who purchase a mechanical keyboard have any intention of letting it rot they belong to a special group of people whether they care to admit it or not. there are a lot of Filco owners at geekhack and a lot of them have a Filco altered in some shape or form. once you get over the shock and awe of your purchase you will move on to bigger and better.

Christine


Yep. I understand all of this. But I was referring to replacing the keycaps with the ones available at Elite Keyboards when the printing fades and the keys become shiny. I was saying that perhaps some people might actually prefer to stick with those keycaps.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *olli3*


OK I took note of what you said and just spent over an hour on a typing tutor program, and I'm beginning to get what you mean, my accuracy has definitely improved so far, so I'm going to try stick with it and see how it goes










So, have you stuck with it? hehe If so, then how are you doing so far?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *olli3*


On a side note, I keep pressing the space bar twice by accident, but not any other key. It happens often enough for it to become annoying, and I was hoping it would stop as I got used to the keyboard, but no luck so far! Would it feel weird to put black switch on the keyboard? Or is there another fix for this?

Perhaps it could even be fixed on the software side of things, it must be milliseconds apart as both spaces seem to appear at the same time, is there something that could do this?











Now that I have the Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO, I know exactly what you're talking about. So, I think I would call this the Lazy Finger Syndrome (or LFS for short, hehe). I've noticed that when I'm extra tired or when I'm trying too hard to not bottom out, I'll sometimes hold down a key for too long and end up with more than 1 instance of that character. It happens the most often when I'm typing slowly. I mean, I sometimes type slowly on purpose just to enjoy the keyboard a little more.







I like the sound and the feel, so why not go a little slower to savor every keystroke, right? But if I go at a comfortable pace where I'm typing at a speed in between my slowest and fastest, then it's very unlikely that I'll end up with 2 or more repeats of the same character right in a row due to LFS.









So yeah, I'm also really curious to see how this is going too. The same thing happens to me sometimes, but it usually happens when I'm typing too carefully. But if I just bounce off the keys and avoid lingering on any key, then I always have no repeats.


----------



## lmnop

my computer classes in elementary school were 40 minute typing lessons every day and I hated it, my computer teacher was a **** but after reading how much you guys struggle with the basics I guess I am thankful.

soldering in a heavier switch is common but people don't do it to learn not to bottom out they do it because of accidental key presses. light force switches are easier to not bottom out on. mouser is the place you want to order from because they don't have any minimum orders like digikey.

Christine


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


i'm sorry but $35 for those keycaps is to much. the keycaps used on the Filco are no better than Logitech. thin polystyrene that are pad printed and the genius who ordered them thought it be a good idea to spray the entire keycap with a protective coating. for $30 you can order brand new set of Cherry POM keycaps that are Double Shot from Asia or you can do what I mentioned earlier and order a used Cherry keyboard off eBay and not only harvest the keycaps but the switches as well.

Christine


We require more Vespene Gas.

Saw the word harvest and that came up in my mind for reason.

Anyways, where can I order some new Cherry POM key caps? I wouldn't mind buying new set or two. The stock Filco key caps do feel on the flimsy side.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

So, my Cherry G84-4100PPAUS arrived today. I actually didn't know what it was at first, since it came in an envelope instead of a package. First impression: This thing is TINY. I mean, you don't realize just how small this keyboard really is until you see it. I think it might actually have less surface area than my standard-size mousepad. It's smaller than a letter size piece of paper. I cannot overstate how small this keyboard's footprint is. It is ridiculously small.

The switches, Cherry ML Black... Eh. They're nothing special. About like a high-end scissor switch, or a brand new, off-the-machinery high-end rubber dome. It has more tactile feel though, but it's very rounded. Also, if you press a key on its edge it "sticks" just a little bit. Not enough to be a huge issue, but it is there. It's also very quiet, even bottoming out isn't that loud, and it's fairly easy not to bottom out. The key spacing is smaller than standard, but manageable; it took me about thirty seconds to adjust. The layout is decent, but some keys have odd placement. For instance, I wish they'd put the Del key up next to Backspace, instead of down by Alt. There are a few other gaffes like that, but I think I could get used to it.

Overall, it's still fairly pleasant to type on, but can't hold a candle to the M.

Haven't tried gaming on it yet, but so far I think that my original speculation that the short travel time would be good for gaming is correct. The rollover is fairly good, 2KRO and fleshed out around the WASD cluster. I tried most of the main "complex" gaming combinations and they all pass. But I don't think it's the standard IBM matrix.

Overall I think it's a good little keyboard, especially for what I paid ($16.50 shipped, I think up to $25 would be fair). Good for gaming due to the short travel and small footprint, and I think this would make a good travel keyboard so I don't have to use a rubberdome while away from home. I could even see myself taking this to school if we used computers enough for it to be worthwhile.

So far, good impressions all around.


----------



## lmnop

they are certainly cute keyboards. I think they are Cherry's answer to scissor switches.

this is cool I didn't know Filco had a model with ML switches.










Christine


----------



## Phaedrus2129

If they used a keyboard like this in a netbook, I would be very pleased.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


If they used a keyboard like this in a netbook, I would be very pleased.










I don't think you would be able to fit it in a netbook, but probably a normal laptop.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I don't think you would be able to fit it in a netbook, but probably a normal laptop.


Maybe in one of the larger Eee's, the 10.1" perhaps.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Maybe in one of the larger Eee's, the 10.1" perhaps.


Thickness is more of an issue instead of keyboard width.

You can get 12.1" Netbooks now, with full sized keyboards.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

It's pretty thin too. It gets thicker towards the back, but I think that's to house the controller, which could be located elsewhere in a laptop. It's no more than maybe 1.5cm thick at the front.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


We require more Vespene Gas.

Saw the word harvest and that came up in my mind for reason.

Anyways, where can I order some new Cherry POM key caps? I wouldn't mind buying new set or two. The stock Filco key caps do feel on the flimsy side.


http://www.inpad.com.tw/goods.php?act=view&no=1021

they are blanks. go to geekhack if you want to find a printed set i'm sure I seen a couple links over the last 12 months.

Christine


----------



## olli3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


So, have you stuck with it? hehe If so, then how are you doing so far?


Yeah I have stuck with the touch typing so far! In fact, I've gone far enough that I've actually forgotten how to type like I used to, but I'm still not back up to the speed I was at. So still typing slower than normal at the moment but it feels a lot more natural and nicer so I don't mind, plus having a Filco makes being slow a lot less painful







I've defiantly got the accuracy for touch typing down now, and I have a pretty stable pace going, I'm hoping that in a month or so time (OK...perhaps a bit longer







) I will be able to type over 80 words per minute. Before I started to learn I was about 55 which was pretty good considering how I was doing it now I look back!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Now that I have the Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO, I know exactly what you're talking about. So, I think I would call this the Lazy Finger Syndrome (or LFS for short, hehe). I've noticed that when I'm extra tired or when I'm trying too hard to not bottom out, I'll sometimes hold down a key for too long and end up with more than 1 instance of that character. It happens the most often when I'm typing slowly. I mean, I sometimes type slowly on purpose just to enjoy the keyboard a little more.







I like the sound and the feel, so why not go a little slower to savor every keystroke, right? But if I go at a comfortable pace where I'm typing at a speed in between my slowest and fastest, then it's very unlikely that I'll end up with 2 or more repeats of the same character right in a row due to LFS.









So yeah, I'm also really curious to see how this is going too. The same thing happens to me sometimes, but it usually happens when I'm typing too carefully. But if I just bounce off the keys and avoid lingering on any key, then I always have no repeats.


Yeah I think you have hit the nail on the head with that one, If I'm doing well with my typing and am confident I very rarely get a double key press, but if I start to hesitate at what I'm doing then it does happen often. That's good news really though because the problem should rectify it self as I get more confident at typing. I like the name though - Lazy Finger Syndrome


----------



## Otterclock

Hurray, I just got my Scorpius M10!

Hurray, I'm diggin the switches!

Hurray, the R, T, F, G, V and B keys don't work!

Hurray!


----------



## sotorious

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Otterclock*


Hurray, I just got my Scorpius M10!

Hurray, I'm diggin the switches!

Hurray, the R, T, F, G, V and B keys don't work!

Hurray!











That sucks! but just wondering how did you type that out? On screen keyboard?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


That sucks! but just wondering how did you type that out? On screen keyboard?


I have used the power of copy/paste to type stuff without a keyboard before. That's about the only other way I can think of.


----------



## Manyak

Start->Accessories->System Tools->Character Map

You can also hold Alt and then use the keypad to enter in the ASCII code of the character. Alt+65 = "A" for example.


----------



## Otterclock

As someone obsessed with keyboards, I had no less than three backups within arms reach.









I'm pretty sad about it. My first mechanical board ever. It was a big moment. I have it on my desk and I'm playing make-believe computer with it, but it's just not the same...sniffle.

I bought it through Buy.com, but it was a vendor selling through them called ErgoGeek. The box they sent me had been opened. Sent them a mail, but who knows how they handle such things. I kinda hope they just give me a refund so I can buy a Filco.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Otterclock* 
As someone obsessed with keyboards, I had no less than three backups within arms reach.









I'm pretty sad about it. My first mechanical board ever. It was a big moment. I have it on my desk and I'm playing make-believe computer with it, but it's just not the same...sniffle.

I bought it through Buy.com, but it was a vendor selling through them called ErgoGeek. The box they sent me had been opened. Sent them a mail, but who knows how they handle such things. I kinda hope they just give me a refund so I can buy a Filco.










Normally ErgoGeek is pretty good about this stuff.

But yeah, this is why it's normally best to just go for a high quality board. Though that doesn't always mean it has to be really expensive (take Model Ms for example).


----------



## sotorious

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Normally ErgoGeek is pretty good about this stuff.

But yeah, this is why it's normally best to just go for a high quality board. Though that doesn't always mean it has to be really expensive (take Model Ms for example).


You don't realize how cheap other boards are till you get your hands on a mechanical, i really want to try some brown switches to see how those are. Im curious to see how i would feel without the click, and how sturdy it still feels. Is there any cheaply made brown switches somewhere?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
You don't realize how cheap other boards are till you get your hands on a mechanical, i really want to try some brown switches to see how those are. Im curious to see how i would feel without the click, and how sturdy it still feels. Is there any cheaply made brown switches somewhere?

Compaq MX 11800, on ebay

Recently it's gone up quite a bit in price on average, but I got one for like $25.


----------



## Otterclock

I like the board otherwise, from what I can tell. I guess I gambled on iOne fixing the QC issues. Even following the "buy quality rather than save" rule, it's still a $60 keyboard. It isn't like I bought an $8 board off a street vendor.

I chose the M10 largely due to the price, but I liked the slightly different click compared to the Filco as well. If I could trust it, I would prefer a working M10 as a starter. I'll let fate decide.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *olli3* 
Yeah I have stuck with the touch typing so far! In fact, I've gone far enough that I've actually forgotten how to type like I used to, but I'm still not back up to the speed I was at. So still typing slower than normal at the moment but it feels a lot more natural and nicer so I don't mind, plus having a Filco makes being slow a lot less painful









hehe amen to that! For the first time in my life since learning how to touch type, I'm actually finding myself typing a little bit slower on purpose just so I can savor every last keystroke. Plus, of course, I am trying to master true touch typing where I'm not bottoming out every single keystroke. The style of typing that I needed to use on those rubber dome switch boards was far more bombastic and aggressive. But the style of typing needed on the Tactile Click is very different. Now it's all about finesse. Every keystroke is blissful.







So I'm working towards a very polished and smooth typing technique.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *olli3* 
I've defiantly got the accuracy for touch typing down now, and I have a pretty stable pace going, I'm hoping that in a month or so time (OK...perhaps a bit longer







) I will be able to type over 80 words per minute. Before I started to learn I was about 55 which was pretty good considering how I was doing it now I look back!

That would be pretty sweet if you could exceed 80 WPM! I've been touch typing since at least the late 90's, and I think I max out at maybe 85 WPM. But I think I'm a little bit slow because there are many people on here who easily type over 100 WPM. But while it wouldn't surprise me to see you exceed 80 WPM, try to avoid expecting it, or you will end up really disappointed. After all, there's no way to know what you will max out at since everyone is different.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *olli3* 
Yeah I think you have hit the nail on the head with that one, If I'm doing well with my typing and am confident I very rarely get a double key press, but if I start to hesitate at what I'm doing then it does happen often. That's good news really though because the problem should rectify it self as I get more confident at typing.

Not only _should_ it rectify itself, but I know now that it definitely *will*. I'm at a point now where the only time I make those kind of typing mistakes is either when I'm really tired, or when I'm trying too hard to type gently. I can clearly see a future where I will not be bottoming out at all, and I'll also be typing relatively perfectly.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *olli3* 
I like the name though - Lazy Finger Syndrome









hehe.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Otterclock* 
As someone obsessed with keyboards, I had no less than three backups within arms reach.









I'm pretty sad about it. My first mechanical board ever. It was a big moment. I have it on my desk and I'm playing make-believe computer with it, but it's just not the same...sniffle.

I bought it through Buy.com, but it was a vendor selling through them called ErgoGeek. The box they sent me had been opened. Sent them a mail, but who knows how they handle such things. I kinda hope they just give me a refund so I can buy a Filco.










Wow. What a terrible experience. Does the site even say anything about it being an Open-Box Item? I mean, I don't think it did and so my reaction here is that I want to say that it's hard for me to believe how stupid they are in selling an item like that without making sure that all 104 of the keys work.


----------



## PsikyoJebus

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Whoa! Did you get him the Tactile Click NKRO, or just the plain Tactile Click? Was it also the 104-key or Tenkeyless? Either way, I really wish I had family like you. Dude. You are awesome. I mean, I have the 104-key Tactile Click NKRO, and I think I'm happier with my keyboard than I am with my entire system. I feel like I am literally savoring every single keystroke.

Oh yeah, and will this Tenkeyless Tactile Touch be your first Majestouch? Is it the NKRO version, or just the plain one?

hehe I'm all enthusiastic about mechanical keyboards now.







And I've only had my Tactile Click for 8 days now.


Jeez this thread moves fast.

The Tenkeyless tactile touch is NKRO, but not the tactile click one. I game, my cousin doesn't. I don't think he really suffers a problem that NKRO remedies, or at least hearing him complain about it. He's not that smart with computers and will probably end up using the USB adapter on it anyways. He likes to write a lot for independent films and the such, so I figured he could use something good to write with. Unless he smashes his head against the keyboard as a poetic way to express anger and frustration on paper, I don't think he's really going to benefit from the full NKRO. And yes, these are my first filcos. I love my Model M, but I realized from that keyboard that softer keys are my thing, so I went with the browns.

USPS takes forever to cross the border....meaning that I have to be patient with this order......but at least it's shipping to Vancouver from California and not Florida or something crazy like that.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

One thing I like about the ML switches is bottoming out.

Someone described them as slightly heavier short-throw MX browns with a sharp spike in force at the end to "catch" your fingers before you bottom out. It's that jump at the end that I like. The travel is so short that it would otherwise be impossible to not bottom out, but that jump basically acts as a buffer and you either don't bottom out, or bottom out very softly, and either way you make very little noise. But I can still bottom out if I hit a key very hard intentionally and it makes that same clack that an MX brown makes when it bottoms out.

The short travel time and very rounded, hard to distinguish tactile bump make this not much better than a good scissor switch when it comes to typing, but it's still fairly nice. The only thing really against it is the issue where it will "catch" if you don't hit the key dead center, but I'm learning not to do that.


----------



## Manyak

yeah ML switches aren't _terrible_, it's just the off-center sticking that makes them annoying. And you're having trouble with small sized keys, so imagine how it would be with full width ones.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Is there any way to fix the sticking? Say, by stabilizing the keys somehow so that any press, even if off center, pushes squarely down on the switch?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Is there any way to fix the sticking? Say, by stabilizing the keys somehow so that any press, even if off center, pushes squarely down on the switch?

Sure, you could install a stabilizer bar on each and every key. But have fun with that one


----------



## Phaedrus2129

lol, how long do you think that would take to do?


----------



## Manyak

lol, _too_ long. so long, in fact, that if you worked at mcdonalds for the same amount of time you could probably buy yourself 10 other boards.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Yeah... I think I'll just live with it.


----------



## Otterclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Wow. What a terrible experience. Does the site even say anything about it being an Open-Box Item? I mean, I don't think it did and so my reaction here is that I want to say that it's hard for me to believe how stupid they are in selling an item like that without making sure that all 104 of the keys work.










It was sold as new. No biggie, really. Just a little sad since I was really looking forward to it.

Quote:



But yeah, this is why it's normally best to just go for a high quality board. Though that doesn't always mean it has to be really expensive (take Model Ms for example).


True indeed. Though technically the M10 is supposed to be a high quality board compared to regular boards; that's a big part of justification for 3x more than an equivalent membrane (I think. It's not even NKRO). "_Successfully passed 1,000,000 cycles of press/release tests. Rigid quality control gives you the best reliability_." Pfft.

I just ordered a Model M off Ebay, along with a Cherry MX11900 and a Dell AT101W just to try the Cherry and ALPS blacks. Take that, Mr. Scorpius! weeeeee


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Here's some size comparison pics of the G84-4100:


















That's a Model M it's sitting on.










Notice how little of my desk it takes up.


----------



## TwoCables

lol now that is *small!*. hehe


----------



## Manyak

by the way, is your ML 4100 PS/2 or USB?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

It's PS/2. I have a PS/2->USB converter on the way.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


It's PS/2. I have a PS/2->USB converter on the way.


Bah! I'm looking for someone with a USB one to trade mine with


----------



## Phaedrus2129

You can't get an adapter? :S


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


You can't get an adapter? :S


I have one, but it's annoying. I carry the board around and use it when working on clients' computers sometimes, so I'm constantly plugging/unplugging it. The USB adapter just gets in the way.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

That's a shame, mate. Sorry I can't help.


----------



## Manyak

It's all good, I'll probably get a different board eventually anyway. I'm thinking of this one, since it's got a trackball in it too, and being wireless will make things a bit easier too.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


It's all good, I'll probably get a different board eventually anyway. I'm thinking of this one, since it's got a trackball in it too, *and being wireless will make things a bit easier too.*


HA HA HA









Wireless NEVER makes things easier.


----------



## Manyak

LOL if you saw the mess sometimes when I'm working on a few computers at once, you'd know what I mean.


----------



## Tator Tot

A little offtopic, but Manyak, I noticed you're running 3 GDM-FW900's....why do you not have an HD5970?

Eyefinity those things. Please...for the love of all that his holy and sacred...


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
A little offtopic, but Manyak, I noticed you're running 3 GDM-FW900's....why do you not have an HD5970?

Eyefinity those things. Please...for the love of all that his holy and sacred...

I've been waiting on Fermi since November. They were like "It's coming out in December" so I was gonna wait to see which would be better to get....and I'm still waiting....


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
I've been waiting on Fermi since November. They were like "It's coming out in December" so I was gonna wait to see which would be better to get....and I'm still waiting....









From all that's leaked
HD5970
GTX480
(10% slower than GTX480) HD5870
GTX470
(5% slower than GTX470) HD5850

Personally, the HD5850 seems like the card to get unless they make an HD5950 (that's 10.5")

Also, they announced GF108 which is supposed to compete against HD5350


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
From all that's leaked
HD5970
GTX480
(10% slower than GTX480) HD5870
GTX470
(5% slower than GTX470) HD5850

Personally, the HD5850 seems like the card to get unless they make an HD5950 (that's 10.5")

Also, they announced GF108 which is supposed to compete against HD5350

Not for nothing, but I really doubt a 5850 would be able to power 3x2304x1440 with all the eye candy turned on. Besides, all 3 displays are Analog, so I can't use the Displayport. Meaning I need at least 2 cards no matter what.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Not for nothing, but I really doubt a 5850 would be able to power 3x2304x1440 with all the eye candy turned on. Besides, all 3 displays are Analog, so I can't use the Displayport. Meaning I need at least 2 cards no matter what.

You can use an Active DP to DVI converter, then a passive DVI to VGA converter









It does work, someone at Hexus or Hardforum (don't remember which) showed off Tripple CRT Eyefinity goodness.

And on Average, HD5850's are not that much slower than HD5870's.


----------



## mechtech

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
You can use an Active DP to DVI converter, then a passive DVI to VGA converter









It does work, someone at Hexus or Hardforum (don't remember which) showed off Tripple CRT Eyefinity goodness.

And on Average, HD5850's are not that much slower than HD5870's.

3x 2304x1440 has got to be too big for a card with 1GB VRAM. I'm sure a 5850 would be fine for DX9 or DX9 with DX11 bolted on games like Bad Company 2 (but still, my 5850 OCd to 950 only holds up BC2 maxes without AA at 40fps), but for any true DX11 titles coming out, I'd want a card with at least 1.5GB VRAM for an insane res like 6912x1440 like he'd be running.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
You can use an Active DP to DVI converter, then a passive DVI to VGA converter









It does work, someone at Hexus or Hardforum (don't remember which) showed off Tripple CRT Eyefinity goodness.

And on Average, HD5850's are not that much slower than HD5870's.

Where exactly do you get a DP -> DVI converter that supports VGA? All the ones I've seen don't


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Where exactly do you get a DP -> DVI converter that supports VGA? All the ones I've seen don't









These two things


----------



## thiru

Haha Manyak is that a Thinkpad keyboard on your profile pic?








Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


lol!

Well technically he's right, it's not _needed_ because you can still hunt and peck and end up with the same result. But I'd absolutely hate having to do that.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Oh. So then I gladly stand corrected. I honestly believed that if I had learned from software, then I'd depend on the output I can see on the monitor as opposed to the feel. I mean, I thought that learning from a text book gave me a valuable skill that just can't be obtained when using software that forces you to watch the monitor while you type. But what I think I'm forgetting is that most typing tutor software forces you to look away from your typing output while you're typing. After all, how else are you going to type the things it's asking you to type? lol









Aw. How cute. He's jealous of you. Don't mind his ignorance, my friend. This is normal human behavior for jealousy.


What shocked me was that he was telling that this skill, which most people of our (him and me) use everyday, was useless.

Yeah, I remember having to write what was on the screen (IIRC the screen was divided in half with the text in the upper half and what you're writing in the lower half) without looking at my fingers otherwise I would not pass the level








It was in French too, so I had to use the number bar for accents and stuff like that









EDIT: rofl I just looked at the posts above mine, man you guys are way off topic







this thread should be renamed Manyak and TwoCable's saloon


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


These two things


Thanks







. But that's way too expensive to be worth it. I'm just going to stick to using two cards, since I think I'll need it anyway.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Haha Manyak is that a Thinkpad keyboard on your profile pic?









.......

EDIT: rofl I just looked at the posts above mine, man you guys are way off topic







this thread should be renamed Manyak and TwoCable's saloon


Yes it is







. I just got a thinkpad and I can't even begin to tell you how relieved I am that I have a trackpoint on my laptop again, after about 10 years without it. I hate touchpads.

And, well, if you go back through the thread it's been off topic plenty of times, but we always manage to get back to keyboards.


----------



## Tator Tot

I'd also like to end the offtopic with saying

/jealous, I only have 2 x 21" 1920x1440 Trinitrons...







Manyak's epeen is bigger than mine.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Yes it is







. I just got a thinkpad and I can't even begin to tell you how relieved I am that I have a trackpoint on my laptop again, after about 10 years without it. I hate touchpads.

And, well, if you go back through the thread it's been off topic plenty of times, but we always manage to get back to keyboards.


I know right, I feel like an fumbling idiot whenever I use one of my friend's laptops. For some strange reason, the Thinkpads' (at least mine) touchpad is actually good (although very very small) because it's the only one I've ever seen that has low friction even when my finger gets sweaty (doesn't take much for me unfortunately







)

(technically scissor switches are still off-topic







)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Haha Manyak is that a Thinkpad keyboard on your profile pic?










That's an Avatar.







Here on OCN, we have an Avatar and also a Profile Picture. The profile pic is what people see when they look at your profile page.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


What shocked me was that he was telling that this skill, which most people of our (him and me) use everyday, was useless.


Meh. That's because he's jealous. His lack of maturity is causing him to be jealous of the fact that people who touch type can type way faster than he'll *ever* be able to. For example, I can type about 85 WPM because I touch type. But I bet that he can barely break 50 WPM. I bet that typing is also not as easy for him, and so that is another reason for him to be jealous.

What's worse is he doesn't know he's jealous. He thinks that he's right and he thinks that his way is superior because he didn't have to go and learn how to do it. But again: his way has caused him to end up with inferior typing skills and so now he's jealous.

So just ignore him.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Yeah, I remember having to write what was on the screen (IIRC the screen was divided in half with the text in the upper half and what you're writing in the lower half) without looking at my fingers otherwise I would not pass the level










Well, of course you can't look at the keyboard, but I'm referring to being able to take a sheet of paper and type what's on the paper without taking your eyes off of the words on that paper. I think that learning from a text book makes it easier for me to be able to do this.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


It was in French too, so I had to use the number bar for accents and stuff like that










Oh. The text book I used was in English. hehe Although, I didn't skip anything in the book. I even went through the section that taught the Top Row. Actually, I skipped the keypad section. hehe I never use the keypad. The Top Row is so much easier for me because I never have to leave the main part of the keyboard.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


EDIT: rofl I just looked at the posts above mine, man you guys are way off topic







this thread should be renamed Manyak and TwoCable's saloon


You mean Manyak, Phaedrus2129 and Tator Tot. I'm still on topic.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I know right, I feel like an fumbling idiot whenever I use one of my friend's laptops. For some strange reason, the Thinkpads' (at least mine) touchpad is actually good (although very very small) because it's the only one I've ever seen that has low friction even when my finger gets sweaty (doesn't take much for me unfortunately







)

(technically scissor switches are still off-topic







)


Oh I know what you mean, the touchpad on this thing is really, really smooth. Well ok, it's textured, but there isn't even the slightest bit of skin dragging like you get with almost all other laptops. Texture wise, it's awesome.

Oh, and another thing I can't stand: FLAT OVERSIZED CHICLET KEYS!!!! I don't even know where to begin with these. I can't understand how anyone can find them comfortable. Well, I can imagine that for the "average" slower typist it doesn't matter much. But at 110WPM there's no way for me to hit those keys properly. My muscle memory is just way too used to standard size and spacing, and the curve helps catch your finger and make the keystroke more natural since you don't have to press exactly downwards like you have to on flat keys.

But seriously, Thinkpads make most other laptops look and feel like toys.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Oh I know what you mean, the touchpad on this thing is really, really smooth. Well ok, it's textured, but there isn't even the slightest bit of skin dragging like you get with almost all other laptops. Texture wise, it's awesome.

Oh, and another thing I can't stand: FLAT OVERSIZED CHICLET KEYS!!!! I don't even know where to begin with these. I can't understand how anyone can find them comfortable. Well, I can imagine that for the "average" slower typist it doesn't matter much. But at 110WPM there's no way for me to hit those keys properly. My muscle memory is just way too used to standard size and spacing, and the curve helps catch your finger and make the keystroke more natural since you don't have to press exactly downwards like you have to on flat keys.

But seriously, Thinkpads make most other laptops look and feel like toys.


Flat, oversized chiclet keys? Do you mean like that slim Apple keyboard? hehe

I remember liking that board quite a bit at a job I had recently where our computers were the latest iMacs with OSX Leopard (10.5). But, lol, now that I have the Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO.... well, yeah. Extremely superior. LOL But I liked that Apple board because it was so quiet and I even liked the typing experience. But now nothing can top the Majestouch for me. At least not yet.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Flat, oversized chiclet keys? Do you mean like that slim Apple keyboard? hehe

I remember liking that board quite a bit at a job I had recently where our computers were the latest iMacs with OSX Leopard (10.5). But, lol, now that I have the Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO.... well, yeah. Extremely superior. LOL


lol yeah like the Mac one. And Asus laptops, and Dell & Alienware laptops. And Dell uses a smoother texture than the others, which makes it even worse. HP at least curved the keys vertically instead of horizontally, which already makes it a lot better than the others.

But how fast do you type anyway?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


lol yeah like the Mac one. And Asus laptops, and Dell & Alienware laptops. And Dell uses a smoother texture than the others, which makes it even worse. HP at least curved the keys vertically instead of horizontally, which already makes it a lot better than the others.

But how fast do you type anyway?


About 80 WPM, sometimes 85 (maybe 90 at the absolute extreme maximum).


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


About 80 WPM, sometimes 85 (maybe 90 at the absolute extreme maximum).


Is that before or after the Filco? lol


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Is that before or after the Filco? lol










Oh, I forgot to do a Before and After. But I've always been able to do about 75-85 WPM.

I suppose that if I were to do a typing test with the Majestouch that I'd probably score just a little bit higher - but probably not much.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Oh, I forgot to do a Before and After. But I've always been able to do about 75-85 WPM.

I suppose that if I were to do a typing test with the Majestouch that I'd probably score just a little bit higher - but probably not much.


That's still pretty good. It won't be long before you get to 100WPM I imagine, as your muscle memory develops with the Filco.

But here, this is another great thing with the Thinkpad. The secondary battery acts as a tilt stand, which puts it at the same angle as a desktop keyboard:


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


That's an Avatar.







Here on OCN, we have an Avatar and also a Profile Picture. The profile pic is what people see when they look at your profile page.

Meh. That's because he's jealous. His lack of maturity is causing him to be jealous of the fact that people who touch type can type way faster than he'll *ever* be able to. For example, I can type about 85 WPM because I touch type. But I bet that he can barely break 50 WPM. I bet that typing is also not as easy for him, and so that is another reason for him to be jealous.

What's worse is he doesn't know he's jealous. He thinks that he's right and he thinks that his way is superior because he didn't have to go and learn how to do it. But again: his way has caused him to end up with inferior typing skills and so now he's jealous.

So just ignore him.









Well, of course you can't look at the keyboard, but I'm referring to being able to take a sheet of paper and type what's on the paper without taking your eyes off of the words on that paper. I think that learning from a text book makes it easier for me to be able to do this.

Oh. The text book I used was in English. hehe Although, I didn't skip anything in the book. I even went through the section that taught the Top Row. Actually, I skipped the keypad section. hehe I never use the keypad. The Top Row is so much easier for me because I never have to leave the main part of the keyboard.

You mean Manyak, Phaedrus2129 and Tator Tot. I'm still on topic.










Yeah I know, I just couldn't remember the word avatar








lol I think you're reading a bit too much into his words. The ironic thing is that he's old fashioned (for his age) but disses touch typing.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*




















how many cells is that?
And Thinkpad is it?

edit: I only learned to touch type for a short time (and only like an hour a week) a long time ago, so I probably learned the rest by myself. But I suppose the software's difficulty got ot the point where you didn't have time to watch what you were writing.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Is that before or after the Filco? lol









Flat Chicklets (like the apples) kills my GWAM (all with over 98% accuracy)

Rubber Dome = 92.4 GWAM
Chicklets = 83.6 GWAM
MX Reds = 104 GWAM
MX Blacks = 100 GWAM
MX Blues = 119.4 GWAM
MX Browns = 122.3 GWAM
Simplified Alps = 106.2 GWAM

By far, Blues and browns max out my typing speed. (These are 5 runs averages by the way.) Though, chicklets kill my typing speed, the rubber domes did better than expected.
Reds & Blacks were expected as I always seem to hold the keys down just a tad longer than Blues or Browns. Alps are the same.

This was 5 tests on each switch type for a 500word Paper, requiring over 98% accuracy (or you fail the test,) which I did not fail at all.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
That's still pretty good. It won't be long before you get to 100WPM I imagine, as your muscle memory develops with the Filco.

I can actually already tell that this keyboard is going to lead to 1 of 2 things for me:

Faster typing
Significantly easier typing with barely any speed increase.
Or perhaps both.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
But here, this is another great thing with the Thinkpad. The secondary battery acts as a tilt stand, which puts it at the same angle as a desktop keyboard:

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...n/100_1365.jpg

Oh nice!!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 







how many cells is that?
And Thinkpad is it?

9 Cells (95Wh). Same goes for the main battery. The system draws about 13-14W during normal web browsing and stuff, so it ends up with something like 14 hours of battery life (on an i7-620M no less). Though I'm looking for a way to drop the bclk and voltage when on battery so that it'll last even longer.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Flat Chicklets (like the apples) kills my GWAM (all with over 98% accuracy)

Rubber Dome = 92.4 GWAM
Chicklets = 83.6 GWAM
MX Reds = 104 GWAM
MX Blacks = 100 GWAM
MX Blues = 119.4 GWAM
MX Browns = 122.3 GWAM
Simplified Alps = 106.2 GWAM

By far, Blues and browns max out my typing speed. (These are 5 runs averages by the way.) Though, chicklets kill my typing speed, the rubber domes did better than expected.
Reds & Blacks were expected as I always seem to hold the keys down just a tad longer than Blues or Browns. Alps are the same.

This was 5 tests on each switch type for a 500word Paper, requiring over 98% accuracy (or you fail the test,) which I did not fail at all.

That's about the same trend as with me. That just goes to show how annoying those things are. And I don't know about you, but if I type on a Chiclet board for too long I end up temporarily slower on my desktop when I go back because I get too used to the slower "rhythm".


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
That's about the same trend as with me. That just goes to show how annoying those things are. And I don't know about you, but if I type on a Chiclet board for too long I end up temporarily slower on my desktop when I go back because I get too used to the slower "rhythm".

I have that issue, as I have to take my laptop with me to school and such. And then I get home and hook up my Otaku board and go to town. It only takes an hour and I'm back up to speed.

But Chicklets hurt my fingers as well, I smash them in way to often and I can really feel a pain if I end up doing an extended not taking session in class.

I would gladly buy a "bulky" laptop if it came with Mechanical switches in it.

Also, 6cell 45whr battery on Core i3 = 6 Hours of battery life.









And if you do find a way to drop Voltage/Bclck on Core i series CPU's please let me know. I want to do it to this thing as well. It's running stock at 1.1v most of the time. Which is way to high. The desktop CPU's can hold higher clocks at lower voltage.


----------



## Manyak

Yeah I had the option of going with an i5 at least, but I dunno, something was bugging me to get the i7 lol







. But honestly, most of the power draw on an idle laptop is from the screen. Which reminds me, I really should test to see how much it's taking on mine.

Either way I'm not complaining too much, 14hrs (about 7-8 hours video playback) is pretty much exactly what I need. Just long enough to keep me entertained on my flights to Beirut.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yeah I know, I just couldn't remember the word avatar








lol I think you're reading a bit too much into his words. The ironic thing is that he's old fashioned (for his age) but disses touch typing.

But it's jealousy. He's a young male, so this is typical behavior. He lacks the maturity to react any other way. I should know: I'm almost 31 now, so I've been there and done that.

Here's an analogy, even though it's not a very good one:

I'm a drummer, and I used to participate on a few different message boards in the drumming community, and there are two basic stick grips: traditional, and matched. Traditional is where the left hand holds the stick differently than the right (it's most commonly seen being used by jazz drummers). Matched is self-explanatory. I guess I'm comparing Traditional to Touch Typing and Matched to mastered Hunt and Peck.

Traditional grip was created by the outdoor marching drummers so that they could be able to hit the drum with their left hand due to the angle of the drum. During my time on those message boards, it was very common for the younger male drummers to say similar things about the Traditional Grip that your old roommate said about Touch Typing: it's old school and no longer needed. But the reality is this: they are jealous because every drummer who can play fluidly with the Traditional Grip makes them feel inferior (including me). Not only that, but every single drummer who plays really well with Traditional grip is usually *much* better at drumming than drummers who've never learned Traditional Grip.

In a similar way, not being able to Touch Type makes your old roommate feel inferior. But the only way he knows how to react is to make fun of it and say that it's useless. He's simply trying very hard to find a way to stop feeling inferior in the same way those young drummers say that Traditional grip is old school and useless when it's far more useful than they could ever know. So the mature reaction would be him taking it upon himself to learn how to Touch Type just like the mature reaction of those drummers would be to learn Traditional Grip.

My clue is this: he was impressed at first, *but then he changed and said that it's old school and useless*. This means that he was still impressed, but immediately started feeling inferior, and his natural competitive instincts kicked in and caused him to say that it's old school and useless in an attempt at trying to stop feeling inferior. This is the same reaction that all of those young drummers had that I mentioned. They were all usually very impressed at first, but then immediately found reasons why it was stupid and useless.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 







how many cells is that?
And Thinkpad is it?

edit: I only learned to touch type for a short time (and only like an hour a week) a long time ago, so I probably learned the rest by myself. But I suppose the software's difficulty got ot the point where you didn't have time to watch what you were writing.

Wow. So how fast can you type today?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Yeah I had the option of going with an i5 at least, but I dunno, something was bugging me to get the i7 lol







. But honestly, most of the power draw on an idle laptop is from the screen. Which reminds me, I really should test to see how much it's taking on mine.

Either way I'm not complaining too much, 14hrs (about 7-8 hours video playback) is pretty much exactly what I need. Just long enough to keep me entertained on my flights to Beirut.

I couldn't pass up the price on this boy.

Core i3 330m
4GB (2x2) DDR3 1066mhz Cas 7 (JDEC standard)
Intel GMA HD
Intel HM55
500GB 7200RPM (single platter)
WiFi N 5Ghz
built in BT
6 Cell battery
720P screen
LED Backlit
4 Pounds (sheesh this thing is light.)

It's pretty perfect for school uses. I get around 4-5 hours watching HD Content.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

What's that laptop's model #, where did you get it, and how much did it cost?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


What's that laptop's model #, where did you get it, and how much did it cost?


It's an Acer 
Got it on Newegg
Cost me $550 before $50 MIR. With Freeshipping. Back to school sale so it's much more $$ now.

They only have the 17" version right now though








http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834115739

I wouldn't recommend it based on the keyboard though. It makes me want to chop my fingers off and type with my eyes.


----------



## ShadowFox19

I'm debating between getting a Filco or a Das. I keep reading the Filco is a better overall, but I really like the look of the Das...except the fact that I can see that piano finish getting annoying to clean all the time.

Help me, guys! I can't make up my mind


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I couldn't pass up the price on this boy.

Core i3 330m
4GB (2x2) DDR3 1066mhz Cas 7 (JDEC standard)
Intel GMA HD 
Intel HM55 
500GB 7200RPM (single platter)
WiFi N 5Ghz
built in BT
6 Cell battery
720P screen
LED Backlit 
4 Pounds (sheesh this thing is light.)

It's pretty perfect for school uses. I get around 4-5 hours watching HD Content.


The thing with laptops is that I feel like they are more about the extras than the actual components. I mean, at least for me they are, because I have a desktop to do all the heavy lifting.

For example, take the battery control. You can give this laptop a charging threshold so that it doesn't start charging a battery until it drops below a certain percentage (so you don't waste charge cycles), and you can tell it to only charge it to a certain point, like 40% (so it doesn't lose it's charge if you mostly use it while plugged in). It can also automatically fully charge-discharge-recharge the battery for you, which you should do every few months to reset the meter and increase the lifespan.

Then take the Wifi application it comes with. Depending on where you are, it not only automatically connects to whatever available AP you have saved, but it can also do the following automatically depending on your location:
- Change your IP address and DNS settings
- Change the proxy server in IE and Firefox
- Enable/disable the firewall
- Automatically pick the best connection available (like automatically turn off the wireless connection when you plug in an ethernet cable)
- Connect to a VPN
- Change the home page
- Change the default printer
- Enable/disable file sharing

This is such a huge step up over doing it just with windows, especially for me. My college has a proxy server and I always had to manually change it every single day between class and home, and I no longer have to manually run the VPN to my home network wherever I go. Believe me, it gets annoying.

And of course there's the fact that it's got a Trackpoint and a _really nice feeling keyboard with no flex_. Those alone are half the reason to buy it IMO. And the touchpad has a great surface too if you prefer that.

And the carbon fiber chassis, and the titanium-magnesium rollcage. You can actually hold the laptop horizontally by the corner of the screen without any risk.

And the drainage channels in the keyboard, so if you spill something on it the liquid goes straight underneath the laptop and doesn't hit any circuitry.

Edit: Oh yeah. And the _matte_ screen. Much nicer on a laptop than the glossy ones. In fact, there are no glossy surfaces at all.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ShadowFox19*


I'm debating between getting a Filco or a Das. I keep reading the Filco is a better overall, but I really like the look of the Das...except the fact that I can see that piano finish getting annoying to clean all the time.

Help me, guys! I can't make up my mind










I used to have the Razer Lycosa, but now I have the Filco Majestouch. One of my most favorite differences is that I no longer have to deal with that high-gloss dust magnet anymore. I also hated how it was absolutely impossible to keep it clean (as opposed to simply keeping it dust-free) . I actually gave up really quickly on cleaning it and instead just vacuumed it every day. Yeah. Every single day.

But other than that high-gloss finish, there are 2 other things I would have hated about the Das Model S:

The lack of a Meta key (WinKey) on the left side. I never use the one on the right, and so it would be *very* irritating for me to have to adjust.
The placement of the USB ports. I would have used one of those 2 ports for my wired mouse, but the placement of those ports would have made it rather inconvenient. I would have had to figure out a new way to place the cable so that it wasn't awkward. It just would have been too close. The placement of the USB port on the Lycosa is far better.
But if it weren't for these two specific things, then I guess I probably would have ended up with the Model S. However, the Das Model S doesn't have full N-Key Rollover.

In other words, I'm *very* glad that I bought the Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO instead of the Model S.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ShadowFox19*


I'm debating between getting a Filco or a Das. I keep reading the Filco is a better overall, but I really like the look of the Das...except the fact that I can see that piano finish getting annoying to clean all the time.

Help me, guys! I can't make up my mind










Filco, won't need cleaning. And if you take the keys off and give them a clear coat over the top you can help keep them letters there just fine.

I've never used a Das specifically, but I don't like Piano finishes. They need cleaned, very often. And from what I've heard, early Das boards have a fair share of issues.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


The thing with laptops is that I feel like they are more about the extras than the actual components. I mean, at least for me they are, because I have a desktop to do all the heavy lifting.

For example, take the battery control. You can give this laptop a charging threshold so that it doesn't start charging a battery until it drops below a certain percentage (so you don't waste charge cycles), and you can tell it to only charge it to a certain point, like 40% (so it doesn't lose it's charge if you mostly use it while plugged in). It can also automatically fully charge-discharge-recharge the battery for you, which you should do every few months to reset the meter and increase the lifespan.

Then take the Wifi application it comes with. Depending on where you are, it not only automatically connects to whatever available AP you have saved, but it can also do the following automatically depending on your location:
- Change your IP address and DNS settings
- Change the proxy server in IE and Firefox
- Enable/disable the firewall
- Automatically pick the best connection available (like automatically turn off the wireless connection when you plug in an ethernet cable)
- Connect to a VPN
- Change the home page
- Change the default printer
- Enable/disable file sharing

This is such a huge step up over doing it just with windows, especially for me. My college has a proxy server and I always had to manually change it every single day between class and home, and I no longer have to manually run the VPN to my home network wherever I go. Believe me, it gets annoying.



I can definitely see that being so nice to have. But most of it's not needed. My School's WiFi is 100% open, all it does is give you a quick re-direct on first logon to a ToS page which you must agree to (then your MAC is dumped into the System as agreed, and stays there.)

I've got the ability to charge manage with this Laptop, but I've got to do it within Windows. The default WiFi program on here will disable the WiFi when Ethernet is present, or no WiFi signal is present.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I can definitely see that being so nice to have. But most of it's not needed. My School's WiFi is 100% open, all it does is give you a quick re-direct on first logon to a ToS page which you must agree to (then your MAC is dumped into the System as agreed, and stays there.)

I've got the ability to charge manage with this Laptop, but I've got to do it within Windows. The default WiFi program on here will disable the WiFi when Ethernet is present, or no WiFi signal is present.


Most of the time yeah you're right it's not needed, but in my specific case I wouldn't give it up for anything lol. It's just way too annoying to have to change the proxy all the time (I set one up at home too so I actually have to keep typing it in), go to the logon page to put in a username and password, and then browse the internet. And then if i have like 20 tabs open when I get there, every single one of them gets switched to the logon page and I get screwed because there's no longer a back button. This application stops all that from happening, lol.


----------



## drjoey1500

Wow this thread does move fast...

Manyak I can't believe you actually changed your avatar







. I like







Love my T400

That round fuzzy (I forget the proper name) trackpoint is nice, but it makes my index finger feel like it's getting a blister. Same with the standard one. I really like the concave one though. BTW what model is it, that battery is huge! I only get max 8-10hrs on my 9cell idling at 7-12W.

/Off topic

Uh, there are a ton of pages to reply too. Phaedrus2129, that board looks really nice, but you need to dye the keys and pull a few off and see if you can mod them







.


----------



## lmnop

I don't like either of his avatars. he should take a tight shot of a IBM Model M keycap and use a magic marker to draw a happy face on it.









Christine


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


Uh, there are a ton of pages to reply too. Phaedrus2129, that board looks really nice, but you need to dye the keys and pull a few off and see if you can mod them







.


Mod them how? Only thing they really need is to be stabilized somehow... And that's unfeasible.









I can't swap out the switches if that's what you're thinking. They appear to be plate mounted, with a PCB or membranes underneath. And I'm willing to bet the spacing between the PCB and plate is different from that of the MX switches. There's also no room to add, say, a USB hub or any such; I doubt if there's a cubic centimeter of available space in this thing.

I do think I'm going to get new feet put on it... The right one squeaks as I move it across the desk.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


Wow this thread does move fast...

Manyak I can't believe you actually changed your avatar







. I like







Love my T400

That round fuzzy (I forget the proper name) trackpoint is nice, but it makes my index finger feel like it's getting a blister. Same with the standard one. I really like the concave one though. BTW what model is it, that battery is huge! I only get max 8-10hrs on my 9cell idling at 7-12W.

/Off topic

Uh, there are a ton of pages to reply too. Phaedrus2129, that board looks really nice, but you need to dye the keys and pull a few off and see if you can mod them







.


lol yeah I've had that last avatar since 2008. I figured it was time for a change.









The proper name is the "classic" cap, but it's better known as the cat's tongue. The one you like is called soft rim









It's the T410, that battery on the bottom is actually the secondary slice battery. The regular 9 cell one is the same as yours I think, where it's like a tube sticking out of the back (not the older one that bends upwards and prevents you from moving the screen back).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I don't like either of his avatars. he should take a tight shot of a IBM Model M keycap and use a magic marker to draw a happy face on it.









Christine


And ruin one of my keycaps? Blasphemy!


----------



## lmnop

non-permanent marker FTW?

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


non-permanent marker FTW?

Christine


All I've got are sharpies


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


All I've got are sharpies










What about Photoshop, or just MS Paint?


----------



## lmnop

so take a picture of the Esc key instead









it will look good and suit you.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


What about Photoshop, or just MS Paint?










/doh


----------



## drjoey1500

Uhm...so about keyboards...?


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


Uhm...so about keyboards...?


lol yeah, so is there any new boards coming out later on this year that are mechanical?

[see how i brought back the topic of keyboards unnoticeable







]


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234*


lol yeah, so is there any new boards coming out later on this year that are mechanical?

[see how i brought back the topic of keyboards secretly







]


steelseries 6gv2 and maybe Filco Bluetooth.

Christine


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


steelseries 6gv2 and maybe Filco Bluetooth.

Christine


And that one the guy from geekhack was making, the one with the trackpoint...a couple hundred pages back, I don't remember the name...


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Guruboard I think. That looks pretty nice.

I'm waiting for that Adesso board to hit Newegg, and for a few people to try it out.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Guruboard I think. That looks pretty nice.

I'm waiting for that Adesso board to hit Newegg, and for a few people to try it out.


Ok that's right.

We have to wake up that guy in the Mechanical Keyboard Club so we can move appropriate conversation there. This thread goes off topic too much








.


----------



## lmnop

isn't there a new ergonomic mechanical keyboard coming out to? I saw it the other day looked pretty cool.

Christine


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


Ok that's right.

We have to wake up that guy in the Mechanical Keyboard Club so we can move appropriate conversation there. This thread goes off topic too much







.


I think he is awake; someone at least added my new G84-4100 to my list. I think he's still there.


----------



## lmnop

oh Das has new models with 2 windows keys instead of 1 windows key and 1 function key. Thermaltake has a Cherry MX Black Linear keyboard coming out and the ergonomic one called truly ergonomic with Cherry MX Blue, Brown and Black.

Christine


----------



## The Duke

Closed pending the sections Moderator's addressing all the OT and inappropriate replies.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *The Duke*


Closed pending the sections Moderator's addressing all the OT and inappropriate replies.


You closed it just as I was deleting them!

Guys, please try and be civil from now on. It's one thing where a post here and there is off topic, its another when everyone jumps into personal arguments.


----------



## The Duke

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


You closed it just as I was deleting them!










Sorry, I didn't check to see if you were logged in


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *The Duke*









Sorry, I didn't check to see if you were logged in










It's all good


----------



## lmnop

here is a picture of the Thermaltake Mechanical Keyboard coming out. it's apart of their new eSports branding. probably Cherry MX Black Linear. good for Thermaltake.










Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
here is a picture of the Thermaltake Mechanical Keyboard coming out. it's apart of their new eSports branding. probably Cherry MX Black Linear. good for Thermaltake.










Christine

Wow, even _Thermaltake_ is making a mechanical board?

Then again, with how crappy 90% of their products are I'd still be cautious with this one.


----------



## lmnop

they had a press release on the new eSports branding they were showcasing at Cebit 2010 but they didn't talk about this model, in the video the Thermaltake rep mentions "it's a Cherry keyboard"

the contrast from the printing on the keycaps suggest laser etch printing but it might be the lighting or angle of the camera.

link to video.

Christine


----------



## drjoey1500

Nice edit mods









Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
oh Das has new models with 2 windows keys instead of 1 windows key and 1 function key. Thermaltake has a Cherry MX Black Linear keyboard coming out and the ergonomic one called truly ergonomic with Cherry MX Blue, Brown and Black.

Christine

That ergonomic one looks interesting to say the least. Could be awesome depending on how the layout was modified (I haven't really examined the changes)

Wow I didn't realize there were that many new mechanical keyboards coming out. Are they coming back, or have they always been this popular and I've just been ignorant?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Wow, even _Thermaltake_ is making a mechanical board?

Then again, with how crappy 90% of their products are I'd still be cautious with this one.

For shame Manyak. I would not say that.

Most of the Thermaltake Cases are decent quality. And unlike CM & Antec, they've realized to pain the interiors black now. Small steps, but they're still ahead of the both of them in that regard. And Cable Management as well. (Even though it's nothing fancy.)

Thermaltake power supplies are somewhat, hit and miss.
TR2 units are poo poo
But Toughpower & Evo units are quality built.

Heatsink wise, the Big Typhoon & Big Typhoon VX are still solid performers. They're a little dated in the design and such. But nor horrid at all. Down Draft still has it's place. Not as lead-design. But it's still useful.
Besides the issue of VRM cooling, the Duo-Orb performs well on modern GPU's.

They also have some misc accessories, they're not bad either. They've got cheap noise dampening material that performs well.
Some of the Case fans are not great. And some are rather average. Not terribly priced though

There SATA Rack & HDD Racks/Cages/enclosures are pretty good as well. Not much you can say about them though. It's not like you can make them fancy.

Case accessories are actually nice. Media Lab, iCage, & Xcontroller are all good products.

All in all, they'd be a 7/10 as a company IMO, as a reference, Corsair gets a 8/10


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Most of the Thermaltake Cases are decent quality. And unlike CM & Antec, they've realized to pain the interiors black now. Small steps, but they're still ahead of the both of them in that regard. And Cable Management as well. (Even though it's nothing fancy.)

I dunno. Thermaltake still uses WAY too much cheap plastic for my liking, especially on the outside. Their tool-free stuff isn't as good as Cooler Master's, either. Overall build quality is behind Antec, too, and a lot of the features that are otherwise useful rely on cheap materials that can break easily.


----------



## TwoCables

I dunno, it's weird: I find that every time I see Thermaltake mentioned on here, it's usually in the context of how bad they are in general. I'm not saying that I agree because I can't agree; I don't have any experience with their products.


----------



## lmnop

I like Thermaltake Power Supplies. Channel Well has been their OEM for years.

Christine


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


I dunno. Thermaltake still uses WAY too much cheap plastic for my liking, especially on the outside. Their tool-free stuff isn't as good as Cooler Master's, either. Overall build quality is behind Antec, too, and a lot of the features that are otherwise useful rely on cheap materials that can break easily.


The tool free I'll give you. Except for on the CM part. The CM 690/590 had notoriously bad plastic Tool Free crap that borked all the time.

Antec & Lian-Li do it right with Thumbscrews. My 300 came with 4 Thumb screws for every 3.5" & 5.25" drive bay, along with the case panels and PCIe slots.









I wouldn't put the Build Quality behind Antec or Cooler Master. Possibly on the older case, but the current Element line (I've personally had my hands on all but 1 of them.) and there HTPC cases are very well crafted and designed.

For Premier Mid-Towers, Antec 902, CM 690-II, TT Element G, and Lancool PC-K62 all have around the same build quality.

Though, they could all use to ditch the plastic IMO.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I like Thermaltake Power Supplies. Channel Well has been their OEM for years.

Christine


Channel Well only does an OEM for the Toughpower series.

Currently, HEC is the OEM for the TR2 line. Which is utter garbage.

I do not remember who does the Evo Blue's though.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I think he is awake; someone at least added my new G84-4100 to my list. I think he's still there.










He hasn't added me







.

Ok, I feel like a troll, I've posted too much useless stuff today. Time to go do homework







.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Keyboard noise comparison!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
For shame Manyak. I would not say that.

Most of the Thermaltake Cases are decent quality. And unlike CM & Antec, they've realized to pain the interiors black now. Small steps, but they're still ahead of the both of them in that regard. And Cable Management as well. (Even though it's nothing fancy.)

Thermaltake power supplies are somewhat, hit and miss.
TR2 units are poo poo
But Toughpower & Evo units are quality built.

Heatsink wise, the Big Typhoon & Big Typhoon VX are still solid performers. They're a little dated in the design and such. But nor horrid at all. Down Draft still has it's place. Not as lead-design. But it's still useful.
Besides the issue of VRM cooling, the Duo-Orb performs well on modern GPU's.

They also have some misc accessories, they're not bad either. They've got cheap noise dampening material that performs well.
Some of the Case fans are not great. And some are rather average. Not terribly priced though

There SATA Rack & HDD Racks/Cages/enclosures are pretty good as well. Not much you can say about them though. It's not like you can make them fancy.

Case accessories are actually nice. Media Lab, iCage, & Xcontroller are all good products.

All in all, they'd be a 7/10 as a company IMO, as a reference, Corsair gets a 8/10

Their heatsinks: At one point they were pretty much the top of the line (remember the BlueOrb?), but right now there's always a better choice at every price point. I did try a DuoOrb on my 8800GTS by the way, and it was only a few degrees better than the stock cooler (less than 10C difference). I tried remounting it several times and lapping its surface, but it didn't help. It might work well on the lower end stuff, but the high end GPUs definitely put out too much heat for it to justify the cost.

Their watercooling: Doesn't perform any better than air cooling, and their parts are pretty high risk. They mix copper and aluminum in their kits, their pumps are very unreliable, and their 1x120mm radiators don't even dissipate as much heat as a TRUE. I'd never put any computer at the mercy of their WC.

Their fans: Completely off the wall dba ratings (like SilenX does), and the PWM ones click a lot when turned down. You can buy two blue LED fans from them with the exact same model number, but still end up with different shades of blue on each one. No consistency whatsoever.

Their noise dampening material: Same as all the other ones you find a PPCS and FrozenCPU and what not. So it's not really anything special

PSUs: Like you said, their PSUs are pretty much hit and miss. We can agree on this completely.

Cases: It's hard to judge a company by its cases, because they are 20% features, 10% airflow, 20% quality, and 50% personal taste. TT does fine with features and airflow, and scores about a 10/20 on quality because of their excessive use of cheap plastic. And I think it's only fair that we ignore looks in this judgement - while you might say that they're one step ahead of the game by painting the interior black (even though CM and Antec do it now too), someone else might say that that just makes it that much more work to mod because they have to strip the paint down before putting their own on. Either way, my own personal opinion is that they look very gaudy and unrefined, sometimes even childish.

Misc Accessories: I will admit, they make one accessory that I think is absolutely awesome: the cigarette lighter and cupholder thing that goes in a 5.25" bay. If I had a lanbox type of case I'd definitely put it in.

We're like, wayyyy off topic today lol.


----------



## Tator Tot

Thermaltake Watercooling = Complete trash. We'll agree there as well.

I agree, that in most cases (puuuuuuuunnnnnnzzzzzzzz), case selection is up to taste.

But Thermaltake & NZXT have it right, right now. They make functional cases that are not to out there in looks, but not so basic to disuade anyone from choosing them.

Also, the element series uses the same calibur of plastic that Antec, NZXT, & Cooler Master use.

The actual metal construction is perfectly fine. I'm ~285 pounds and I can use an Element G as a chair without it warping.


----------



## TwoCables

I just remembered reading somewhere in this thread that after a while, the clicks of the Cherry MX Blues may begin to sound a little bit duller due to dirt and debris getting inside. Have you found that just using compressed air is enough to clean them out?


----------



## Blade1000000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Thermaltake Watercooling = Complete trash. We'll agree there as well.

I agree, that in most cases (puuuuuuuunnnnnnzzzzzzzz), case selection is up to taste.

But Thermaltake & NZXT have it right, right now. They make functional cases that are not to out there in looks, but not so basic to disuade anyone from choosing them.

Also, the element series uses the same calibur of plastic that Antec, NZXT, & Cooler Master use.

The actual metal construction is perfectly fine. I'm ~285 pounds and I can use an Element G as a chair without it warping.


IMO neither thermaltake or NZXT have the market right now. both overprice some of thier casings (armour+, Whisper are both examples) which have medicore materials at best. as far as nzxt go they are trying to be mercedes but actually are a honda civic with leather in it. as for thermaltake they have some good ideas but thier presentation of said ideas (like the tool bay in the armour+) are far from satisfactory.

as far as thermaltake watercooling goes i would not trust those kits as far as i could throw them. i would rather buy a quality used kit from another ocn/ebay member as i dont want my expensive components to have water all over them.

if we are going to talk about case quality then you should 1st judge a case on Build Quality and Design (drive bay layout, cooling, size of hardware that can fit, overall ease to work with) and secondly on personal preference for colour/looks as you dont want a casing that looks awesome but will not fit all of your hardware and cause whatever you put in it to overheat and die.

as for plastics being used in casings, even top quality case designs made by brands such as silverstone and lian li still include plastics. in most cases if it looks cheap it probably is.


----------



## Tator Tot

Whisper & Armor+ are old cases.

Thermaltakes Element Line (new)
NZXT's Classic Series (new)

These are brand new iterations of their cases. And much better at that.


----------



## Blade1000000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Whisper & Armor+ are old cases.

Thermaltakes Element Line (new)
NZXT's Classic Series (new)

These are brand new iterations of their cases. And much better at that.


i know this and TBH the element is a really really dodgy case, cooling with this case is not overclock friendly, i would not overclock in this case on air. the element series looks cheap (plastics make it look cheap) and it looks dull (why would i pay for something which would be hell to mod and looks like something i would give to a kid?)

as for the nzxt classic series yes they do have sound deadening but the cable management is terrible and the drive bays are crazy difficult to work with compared to some of antecs similar priced cases. they nzxt classic series are yet again trying to be a mercedes but they are only a honda civic with imitation leather (meaning they are trying to be like a high end case such as silverstone or lian li but are failing terribly) and for the price i pay for these casings i can add $20-$30 and get something much higher quality from CM (such as the scout or sniper).

dont get me started on budjet cases.


----------



## Tator Tot

I'm going to ask you to stop responding. You have no messed with these cases at all.

The Element G was able to provide enough airflow for a 4.0ghz Core i7 920 & HD5870.

And the Classic Series all has great cable management. The Beta EVO/Beta, M59, GAMMA, Hades, & Tempest Evo can all hold a 750w Non modular PSU with out a problem. (TX750)


----------



## TwoCables

So, I just remembered reading somewhere in this thread that after a while, the clicks of the Cherry MX Blues may begin to sound a little bit duller due to dirt and debris getting inside. Have you found that just using compressed air is enough to clean them out?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


The CM 690/590 had notoriously bad plastic Tool Free crap that borked all the time.


Well, yeah, their mid-towers are an example of what happens when CM messes up on tool-free. My brother has the CM690 and I detest that thing. About the only thing going for it in my eyes is the number of available fan positions, and the cable management isn't too horrible, either. Other than that I'd much rather have a Lancool if I had to get one for myself.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I wouldn't put the Build Quality behind Antec or Cooler Master. Possibly on the older case, but the current Element line (I've personally had my hands on all but 1 of them.) and there HTPC cases are very well crafted and designed.


Agreed, but the original Armor still kicks the life out of what they have now.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


For Premier Mid-Towers, Antec 902, CM 690-II, TT Element G, and Lancool PC-K62 all have around the same build quality.


How dare you lump a Lancool with a Thermaltake?







But TBH I don't even like the CM 690-II that much. Still the same *STUPID* method of installing 5.25" devices, and still too much plastic on the outside (which compounds the first problem).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Though, they could all use to ditch the plastic IMO.


That'd make them twice as expensive. :/


----------



## runeazn

what sort of clicky system has my g19?

and do you reccomend the gk-k8000 gigabyte keyboard? i can't find it at all


----------



## Blackhawk4

Quote:



Originally Posted by *runeazn*


what sort of clicky system has my g19?

and do you reccomend the gk-k8000 gigabyte keyboard? i can't find it at all










It's rubber dome and the GK-K8000 = discontinued.


----------



## X3NIA

Looking at either a deck keyboard or a Steelseries 7g.

It is a stupid amount of money to spend on a keyboard so I want to get your thoughts on both of them.. My razer lycosa is an absolute torture device.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I just remembered reading somewhere in this thread that after a while, the clicks of the Cherry MX Blues may begin to sound a little bit duller due to dirt and debris getting inside. Have you found that just using compressed air is enough to clean them out?


Where did you get that from? I've never heard of that happening.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skillzero*


Looking at either a deck keyboard or a Steelseries 7g.

It is a stupid amount of money to spend on a keyboard so I want to get your thoughts on both of them.. My razer lycosa is an absolute torture device.


They are both great keyboards. The main difference, besides the obvious, is that the Steelseries is sculpted while the Deck Legend is flat. But they're both built very well, either one can be used as a weapon.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The main thing I don't like about Thermaltake is their aesthetics. Too many chunky edges, trying to make it look "cool". And any company that would knowingly sell garbage made by HEC in any form for any market loses a couple of points in my book. The Toughpower line is all overpriced compared to Corsair and Antec. The Thermaltake V1 I have I got for $50, now costs $60+, and performs worse than a $40 Dark Knight.

Oh, and a Thermaltake rep raped my mom. loljk

I vote for them to be renamed "Expensive Chunky Junk Emporium, Inc."


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I just remembered reading somewhere in this thread that after a while, the clicks of the Cherry MX Blues may begin to sound a little bit duller due to dirt and debris getting inside. Have you found that just using compressed air is enough to clean them out?

Where did you get that from? I've never heard of that happening.

Wow. I'm really glad that I'm wrong. I could've sworn I read that somewhere in here. It must've been regarding a different switch type. Either way, I'm glad to find out that the clicks won't get duller or quieter over time due to dirt and/or debris making its way inside the switches.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
They are both great keyboards. The main difference, besides the obvious, is that the Steelseries is sculpted while the Deck Legend is flat. But they're both built very well, either one can be used as a weapon.

Skillzero: if you're curious at all as to what the differences are between sculpted and flat, then check _this_ out!









Sculpted:









Flat:









The top one is the Unicomp Customizer 104 (it's basically the best re-make of the famous IBM Model M), and the bottom one is a Deck Legend.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runeazn* 
what sort of clicky system has my g19?

and do you reccomend the gk-k8000 gigabyte keyboard? i can't find it at all









Unfortunately, not even the G19 is a mechanical keyboard. It's just another rubber dome switch keyboard.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skillzero* 
Looking at either a deck keyboard or a Steelseries 7g.

It is a stupid amount of money to spend on a keyboard so I want to get your thoughts on both of them.. My razer lycosa is an absolute torture device.

I know exactly what you mean about the Lycosa being a torture device! I upgraded from the Razer Lycosa to the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO, and I am basically happier with my keyboard than I am with my entire system. I've *never* been this pleased with my keyboard before! And once I got the Lycosa, I was highly recommending it almost every chance I got!

But that's not all: I had some pretty strict requirements when I was looking for a new keyboard to replace it, and some of those requirements were that the keyboard had to be silent, that it had to have media keys, and that it had to have a USB port on it that I could use for my wired mouse. But long story short, I watched some YouTube videos of people typing on all kinds of mechanical keyboards which eventually enabled me to figure out which switch I might like best. Of course, I combined that with everything else I read (like the stuff I read in this Mechanical Keyboard Guide), but still: it was an extremely helpful tool and I believe that if it weren't for those videos, then I'd still be trying to decide on a switch as well as the board.

But the point is that now those requirements don't mean anything at all to me anymore. I thought I was going to really miss those features, but I sincerely don't.

Anyway, while shopping, I went from wanting a Deck Legend to the Das Model S to the iOne Scorpious M10 to the Unicomp SpaceSaver 104 and even that Matias Tactile Pro 2.0. I think there were a couple of others in there that I looked at too, but thanks to those YouTube videos, I eventually started looking at the Majestouch keyboards and then I found my perfect match. So, I definitely recommend giving this type of research a shot as it might help you end up with a keyboard you are absolutely, positively 100% pleased with.


----------



## Otterclock

So, checking out iOne's website, it seems they are releasing several new versions of the M10, including features like media keys, USB and audio ports, and backlighting.
M10 Plus
M10BL


Despite getting what just seems to be used, defective one, I really like this board. If their QC issues are really fixed, I want that backlit one and I wants it now.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Otterclock* 
So, checking out iOne's website, it seems they are releasing several new versions of the M10, including features like media keys, USB and audio ports, and backlighting.
M10 Plus
M10BL


Despite getting what just seems to be used, defective one, I really like this board. If their QC issues are really fixed, I want that backlit one and I wants it now.

They were announced something like 2 or 3 years ago now, yet I've still never seen one anywhere.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I hate the gold plated connectors crap. It's been shown that that only makes a difference when both the male and female connectors are gold plated; which is never the case. And the difference is so minor you'd never know. Otherwise the only thing it does is cause _more_ corrosion because you're mixing metals. It also adds a couple of dollars to the cost, which bumps the price up on average five dollars. Fantastic.


----------



## soloz2

that backlit one does indeed look good! Now if it were tenkeyless...


----------



## Otterclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


They were announced something like 2 or 3 years ago now, yet I've still never seen one anywhere.


well rats and dangnabbit.

Still haven't heard back from Ergogeek. Weekend I guess. I've concluded that they sent me a used, years old production model that I'm guessing was RMA'd. Pretty sleazy, not to mention illegal since it was sold as new. I'm liking the feel of this board enough to try out Adesso's version.


----------



## sotorious

People with the filco majestouch when i push in by the right side of the windows key it makes this clacking noise as if its loose or something? Is this the way they are or is mine just a bit defected..?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


People with the filco majestouch when i push in by the right side of the windows key it makes this clacking noise as if its loose or something? Is this the way they are or is mine just a bit defected..?


Can you elaborate to explain exactly what you're doing and exactly what part of the keyboard you're pushing on? And can you elaborate on the sound?


----------



## sotorious

Ok do you see the windows key on the right side of the keyboard. I palm my keyboard thumb towards the windows key middle finger between the f9 and f10 key and im squeezing with my thumb and it was making a clacking noise.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


Ok do you see the windows key on the right side of the keyboard. I palm my keyboard thumb towards the windows key middle finger between the f9 and f10 key and im squeezing with my thumb and it was making a clacking noise.


Well before I try doing this awkward thing (which I can tell you're doing with your left hand based on the description), why are you doing it? I mean, what made you do it in the first place? And what do you mean by *clacking*? Do you mean a _creaking_ noise?


----------



## olli3

I've tried to reproduce the noise on my Filco and hear nothing out of the ordinary. Weird way to press the key though I must say! Perhaps try taking the key cap off and seeing if there is anything stuck underneath or if the switch itself is making the noise.


----------



## Otterclock

Quote:



I hate the gold plated connectors crap. It's been shown that that only makes a difference when both the male and female connectors are gold plated; which is never the case. And the difference is so minor you'd never know. Otherwise the only thing it does is cause more corrosion because you're mixing metals. It also adds a couple of dollars to the cost, which bumps the price up on average five dollars. Fantastic.


Yeah I don't like that either. I'm a little skeptical of connection superiority of gold, seeing as how it's digital. Unless maybe compared to super low quality metal. In fact the thin layer of nickel that generally accompanies gold plating to prevent copper bleed-through can hurt conductivity.

Plus there's nothing even fancy about gold plating. If people saw how it was done, they wouldnt be impressed. Given the electrolytic process used, an ounce of gold could probably plate your house. Maybe less than an ounce.

I just found out a coworker has a Filco and I'm heading over to check it out.


----------



## sotorious

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Well before I try doing this awkward thing (which I can tell you're doing with your left hand based on the description), why are you doing it? I mean, what made you do it in the first place? And what do you mean by *clacking*? Do you mean a _creaking_ noise?


well this is all done with my right hand, what made me do this was i was grasping it to move it back a little, and i noticed that the plastic was a bit loose down there, be being how i am i kept squeezing that section and then it made a click click sound and i was like what? i mean its not enough for me to return it or anything keyboard works perfect. its just i noticed it.

Idk i think god gave me the ability to notice the dumbest smallest things.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Otterclock*


Yeah I don't like that either. I'm a little skeptical of connection superiority of gold, seeing as how it's digital. Unless maybe compared to super low quality metal. In fact the thin layer of nickel that generally accompanies gold plating to prevent copper bleed-through can hurt conductivity.

Plus there's nothing even fancy about gold plating. If people saw how it was done, they wouldnt be impressed. *Given the electrolytic process used, an ounce of gold could probably plate your house. Maybe less than an ounce.*


...

ULTIMATE

And I mean *ULTIMATE*

*BLING*


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *olli3*


I've tried to reproduce the noise on my Filco and hear nothing out of the ordinary. Weird way to press the key though I must say! Perhaps try taking the key cap off and seeing if there is anything stuck underneath or if the switch itself is making the noise.


Well, I think what he's saying is this:

Pick up the keyboard with your right hand so that your middle finger is up between F9 and F10, and your thumb is down by the right meta key. Picking it up forces you to squeeze the keyboard. It's a tiny bit similar to palming a basketball (holding it with one hand so that it appears to defy gravity).


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


well this is all done with my right hand, what made me do this was i was grasping it to move it back a little, and i noticed that the plastic was a bit loose down there, be being how i am i kept squeezing that section and then it made a click click sound and i was like what? i mean its not enough for me to return it or anything keyboard works perfect. its just i noticed it.

Idk i think god gave me the ability to notice the dumbest smallest things.


Is it the sound of the plastic creaking? And how loud is it in comparison to the click of a single switch? Press a single key lightly/gently/softly so that it clicks, and then compare the loudness to what you're hearing from the body of the keyboard.


----------



## sotorious

here let me see if i can get a video for you guys real quick.


----------



## Otterclock

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


...

ULTIMATE

And I mean *ULTIMATE*

*BLING*



Word. Gimmie a wedding band, a car battery, and a swimming pool full of saltwater and I will gold plate a Buick, then give you back the wedding band one size smaller.


----------



## sotorious

http://rapidshare.com/files/36650828...27-18.3gp.html

couldnt get it up on youtube for some reason it was failing

sorry took me a sec to find the spot then people started talking in vent.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Otterclock*


Word. Gimmie a wedding band, a car battery, and a swimming pool full of saltwater and I will gold plate a Buick, then give you back the wedding band one size smaller.


Technically it would be one size larger, since the inside diameter would shrink.


----------



## TwoCables

sotorious:

The video had no sound. But again: is it just the creaking of the plastic? Is it similar to the sound that your other keyboard(s) would make if you did the same thing?


----------



## sotorious

Yea do you have vlc player? almost like the plastic is buckling


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


Yea do you have vlc player? almost like the plastic is buckling


How loud is this sound in comparison to the click of a single switch? And when I mean the click, I mean press a single key very gently just so that it clicks and then describe the difference in the loudness.


----------



## sotorious

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


How loud is this sound in comparison to the click of a single switch? And when I mean the click, I mean press a single key very gently just so that it clicks and then describe the difference in the loudness.


a lot louder. If you get vlc player you should be able to hear the sound, do you see video?


----------



## Crazy9000

The video has sound. My guess is they top and bottom half aren't fully together, so theres a little gap between them that opens and closes when you squeeze, making that noise.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


a lot louder. If you get vlc player you should be able to hear the sound, do you see video?


Now that I know that it's "a lot louder", I'm no longer concerned about the video. When I do this with _my_ keyboard, it just makes a subtle creaking noise that is probably half the loudness of the click of a single key as I described before. I cannot make it create any noises that are louder than the click of a single switch.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


The video has sound. My guess is they top and bottom half aren't fully together, so theres a little gap between them that opens and closes when you squeeze, making that noise.


Ok, so the video has sound, but not in Windows Media Player. I haven't tried playing it in any other media player yet so I haven't heard the audio yet.


----------



## sotorious

Yea i was just checking i happen to hear it when i was moving it but its not biggie i guess, ill be squeezing it for the next few days cause i know its there but until i forget about it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
Yea i was just checking i happen to hear it when i was moving it but its not biggie i guess, ill be squeezing it for the next few days cause i know its there but until i forget about it.

Hmm. I think that I would take it apart and then put it back together just to see if anything changes.


----------



## Otterclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Technically it would be one size larger, since the inside diameter would shrink.









I jumped in the shower after posting that, and it was like "I'm siiiigin in the rain, just siingin in th- OH CRAP IT WOULD BE LARGER"


----------



## sotorious

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Hmm. I think that I would take it apart and then put it back together just to see if anything changes.

Thats a bit to extreme for me. as long as they keyboard still types and doesnt make that sound while im typing.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sotorious* 
Thats a bit to extreme for me. as long as they keyboard still types and doesnt make that sound while im typing.

Oh, alright then.


----------



## lmnop

for people that are skeptical about soldering and desoldering I used to volt mod video cards and it's not difficult at all.

in the video below a guy shows you how to transplant a Alps switch from one keyboard to another which is probably the most difficult circumstances you could face and it's easy.












if you have a old video card that is collecting dust you can practice on it and if your hands shake, clap them. that is the learning curve.

Christine


----------



## drjoey1500

Do any of you know, is it possible to remove the tenkey from a standard size keyboard without ruining it?


----------



## lmnop

it is possible. a couple months ago another person asked the same question and I remember seeing some guide on geekhack how to do it but when I went to go look for it I couldn't find it. should ask there.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sotorious*


Yea i was just checking i happen to hear it when i was moving it but its not biggie i guess, ill be squeezing it for the next few days cause i know its there but until i forget about it.


I tried squeezing mine in all sorts of places and I couldn't even get a tiny peep out of it :/

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


Do any of you know, is it possible to remove the tenkey from a standard size keyboard without ruining it?


Yes it is. But to do it, you need to follow the matrix and make sure that you solder some wires on to recreate any circuits that you'll be breaking when you cut it off.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I tried squeezing mine in all sorts of places and I couldn't even get a tiny peep out of it :/


Not even a slight creaking of the plastic?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Not even a slight creaking of the plastic?


Nope. I can get the part of the case underneath the spacebar (the side facing you) to flex a bit, but the keyboard doesn't squeak, creak, peep, or anything.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Nope. I can get the part of the case underneath the spacebar (the side facing you) to flex a bit, but the keyboard doesn't squeak, creak, peep, or anything.

Whoa. Mine creaks a little bit (similarly to the Lycosa, but nowhere _near_ as much). This makes me wonder if the quality of these keyboards has been reduced a little bit.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Whoa. Mine creaks a little bit (similarly to the Lycosa, but nowhere _near_ as much). This makes me wonder if the quality of these keyboards has been reduced a little bit.

I really hope not....

Though only 2 keyboards is hardly enough of a sample size to come to that conclusion.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
I really hope not....

Though only 2 keyboards is hardly enough of a sample size to come to that conclusion.

Two purchased within about 2-3 weeks from each other.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Two purchased within about 2-3 weeks from each other.









But that doesn't really show a general trend, that could just be because of a bad batch.


----------



## lmnop

that is pretty loud. why don't you convert it to WMV and try to post it on Youtube again. message majestouch on geekhack or email elitekeyboards support. they will probably tell you whats wrong with it in 2 seconds.

Christine


----------



## pow3rtr1p

You guys are having issues with Majestouches? I just got a brand new Otaku 87-key one. I can check something on mine if you guys want me to. Another sample for your research.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pow3rtr1p* 
You guys are having issues with Majestouches? I just got a brand new Otaku 87-key one. I can check something on mine if you guys want me to. Another sample for your research.









Put your right thumb on the casing by the right Alt/Win/Ctrl keys

Put your fingers on the casing above the F9-F12 keys

Squeeze and let us know if it makes a noise.


----------



## TwoCables

Just squeeze the body of the keyboard in various ways and tell us if it creaks or makes any other kinds of noises.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Plastic creaks. All this says is that the plastic the Filco uses isn't particularly tough; not ABS like the Model M or anything.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Plastic creaks. All this says is that the plastic the Filco uses isn't particularly tough; not ABS like the Model M or anything.


Yeah. I know plastic creaks. I've known this ever since I got my first plastic toy when I was a little child. I think that it's common knowledge that plastic things creak when squeezed or torqued in some way. But Manyak's Majestouch doesn't make a single tiny bit of sound. It remains dead silent no matter what he does to it.


----------



## ez12a

my majestouch creaks when you push down on the plastic in random places, but more or less stops after one time.


----------



## lmnop

maybe the poor bastard working on the Costar assembly line didn't get laid the night before and didn't put enough torque on the screws.

Christine


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Yeah. I know plastic creaks. I've known this ever since I got my first plastic toy when I was a little child. I think that it's common knowledge that plastic things creak when squeezed or torqued in some way. But Manyak's Majestouch doesn't make a single tiny bit of sound. It remains dead silent no matter what he does to it.












Space gophers?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*











Space gophers?


What are space gophers?


----------



## Manyak

WAIT!!!! I got it to creak!!!!!

I had to pick up the board and push in with both hands on the ESC key and LCtrl cluster, really really hard.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Do they make a mechanical keyboard thats blacklit with media controls? And doesn't cost 2 arms and a leg.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


WAIT!!!! I got it to creak!!!!!

I had to pick up the board and push in with both hands on the ESC key and LCtrl cluster, really really hard.


Maybe it's because yours is tenkeyless. heh. All I know is that's not fair.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*


Do they make a mechanical keyboard thats blacklit with media controls? And doesn't cost 2 arms and a leg.


Nope, only backlit mechanical is the Deck, and it costs three arms, a leg, and your firstborn's firstborn.


----------



## lmnop

Gremlins! WW2 pilots used to blame them for unexplained problems. I don't think it's the plastic it sounds like something is banging against the casing.

Christine


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


What are space gophers?


Obviously you're not a fan of Sam and Fuzzy.
http://samandfuzzy.com


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*


Do they make a mechanical keyboard thats blacklit with media controls? And doesn't cost 2 arms and a leg.


I went straight from the Razer Lycosa to the this Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO, and I sincerely thought I was going to miss the media keys and the backlighting of the Lycosa (as well as the other features it has), but y'know what? Now that I am experiencing what a good mechanical keyboard is like, I just shrug my shoulders and I honestly wonder why I cared about all those features.

Seriously: I mean, I can still see my keys, and there are other, just-as-easy ways to control my media and my volume, so I no longer see the point in those features - and I used to get quite a bit of use out of both the backlighting and the media keys.

I used the media keys every single day and I used the backlighting to make it easier to glance down whenever I really, really needed to. But now that I don't have those features, I am seriously wondering what I liked about those features. Now I just see them as silly gimmicks.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Maybe it's because yours is tenkeyless. heh. All I know is that's not fair.










No it's not, it's a fullsize one....do I still have the tenkeyless in my sig?

Edit: Crap, I do. lol


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


No it's not, it's a fullsize one....do I still have the tenkeyless in my sig?

Edit: Crap, I do. lol


The last time I looked was over a month ago too.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


The last time I looked was over a month ago too.


lol I sold my tenkeyless a looong time ago, and switched to a full size one. I just missed the keypad too much....entering IP addresses using the number row is a PAIN, no matter how well you type.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


lol I sold my tenkeyless a looong time ago, and switched to a full size one. I just missed the keypad too much....entering IP addresses using the number row is a PAIN, no matter how well you type.


hahahahaha not for me!!







I've been using the top-row since I first learned how to type, and so entering an IP address is just as easy as only using the alpha keys. Neener, neener, neeeeeeeeeeener.


















But I can't live without the keypad's Enter key and the 0 key. I use the 0 key in games, and its Enter key for things like OK buttons when I do not want to navigate to it with my mouse, even though I'm holding my mouse.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


No it's not, it's a fullsize one....do I still have the tenkeyless in my sig?

Edit: Crap, I do. lol


did you ever sell that i-Rocks? when I was looking at a Chinese review of a G80 model the author was testing it in Warcraft 3 and whining about the number pad being to far away I was like huh? but look closer...










Christine


----------



## TwoCables

I'm not seeing it. It looks close enough to me.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


hahahahaha not for me!!







I've been using the top-row since I first learned how to type, and so entering an IP address is just as easy as only using the alpha keys. Neener, neener, neeeeeeeeeeener.


















But I can't live without the keypad's Enter key and the 0 key. I use the 0 key in games, and its Enter key for things like OK buttons when I do not want to navigate to it with my mouse, even though I'm holding my mouse.










Good, now what I want you to do is hold up a paper in one hand that has a list of 50 IP addresses, and enter them all into the PC using only your other hand. And no touching the keypad.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


did you ever sell that i-Rocks? when I was looking at a Chinese review of a G80 model the author was testing it in Warcraft 3 and whining about the number pad being to far away I was like huh? but look closer...










Christine


I still have it actually.









But I don't see what's wrong with that G80.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I went straight from the Razer Lycosa to the this Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO, and I sincerely thought I was going to miss the media keys and the backlighting of the Lycosa (as well as the other features it has), but y'know what? Now that I am experiencing what a good mechanical keyboard is like, I just shrug my shoulders and I honestly wonder why I cared about all those features.

Seriously: I mean, I can still see my keys, and there are other, just-as-easy ways to control my media and my volume, so I no longer see the point in those features - and I used to get quite a bit of use out of both the backlighting and the media keys.

I used the media keys every single day and I used the backlighting to make it easier to glance down whenever I really, really needed to. But now that I don't have those features, I am seriously wondering what I liked about those features. Now I just see them as silly gimmicks.


I think I could do without lightning. But having media keys to adjust volume or control foobar while in a game feels like a must for me. Also aren't the red switches the best for gaming?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I'm not seeing it. It looks close enough to me.


look down at your Filco. now look at the G80. look at the space between the BACKSPACE and INSERT key, PG UP and NUM LOCK.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*


I think I could do without lightning. But having media keys to adjust volume or control foobar while in a game feels like a must for me. Also aren't the red switches the best for gaming?


yes but you have to order from Asia they are not native to North America.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


look down at your Filco. now look at the G80. look at the space between the BACKSPACE and INSERT key, PG UP and NUM LOCK.


Well yeah I saw _that_, but look at the standard:










It's Filco that has the keys too close, not Cherry that has the keys too far!


----------



## lmnop

Model M has the same spacing but I guess you're right all Costar keyboards have a smaller spacing. I never noticed it until now









Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Good, now what I want you to do is hold up a paper in one hand that has a list of 50 IP addresses, and enter them all into the PC using only your other hand. And no touching the keypad.


Oh. I just set stuff down on the desk in front of me and type what I see.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I still have it actually.









But I don't see what's wrong with that G80.










Same here.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*


I think I could do without lightning. But having media keys to adjust volume or control foobar while in a game feels like a must for me. Also aren't the red switches the best for gaming?


Hmm. I think that because I had the Lycosa I would just Alt+Tab anyway because sometimes the touch pad wasn't working. So I got in a really solid and even a much more efficient habit of Alt+Tabbing that I now use 100% of the time since I no longer have media keys. Plus, now I just adjust the volume with the speaker's volume knob.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


look down at your Filco. now look at the G80. look at the space between the BACKSPACE and INSERT key, PG UP and NUM LOCK.


I'm still not seein' it. I mean, I'm seeing it, but it looks fine to me. Maybe his hands are tiny and so every last millimeter makes a huge difference.


----------



## Manyak

Also with standard Model M spacing between clusters:


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Also with standard Model M spacing between clusters:











I was thinking about buying that very board. Thoughts?

Back-lighting is a must for me


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


I was thinking about buying that very board. Thoughts?

Back-lighting is a must for me


I literally _just_ made a post about it:

http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ml#post8826640


----------



## mmparkskier

WOW. I bookmarked this - you definitely got some mechanical keyboard company a sale in the future.

I don't know if you wrote all of it, but either way, thank you. The only reason I'm uncertain is because of the quotation mark at the beginning of the first post.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mmparkskier* 
WOW. I bookmarked this - you definitely got some mechanical keyboard company a sale in the future.

I don't know if you wrote all of it, but either way, thank you. The only reason I'm uncertain is because of the quotation mark at the beginning of the first post.

Look closer. That big section in the first post is from this:

http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg...mystified.aspx


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mmparkskier* 
WOW. I bookmarked this - you definitely got some mechanical keyboard company a sale in the future.

I don't know if you wrote all of it, but either way, thank you. The only reason I'm uncertain is because of the quotation mark at the beginning of the first post.

I didn't write the first 2 or 3 paragraphs, and I didn't take the pictures. Other than that, yup it's all me.

And it's not finished yet.....ugh I keep procrastinating lol.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Found this while searching for a vid on mx clear switches. I haven't watched it all the way through as I'm currently working in a lab now (didn't bring headphones). Could be useful to someone.


----------



## olli3

Nice video, gives a good run down of the basics for someone who's new to it all.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Found this while searching for a vid on mx clear switches. I haven't watched it all the way through as I'm currently working in a lab now (didn't bring headphones). Could be useful to someone.







I never agreeed with the notion that stiffer the key stroke, the better it feels for gaming. I have to migrate to my browns to game b/c the blues were a lil too stiff. I've also felt the blacks. Although to each their own, but I still feel brown is best for typing and gaming.

I'm on blues right now and it's giving my hand a workout!


----------



## fiskan

Need help here.

I need a quick replacement keyboard cause there's a tourney this weekend. I'm looking at the logitech k100(membrane i guess) because its the cheapest here and it's ps2. Ps2 for keyboards are supposed to be better right?

What do you guys think about it? I really need it urgently because i broke the left shift key on my keyboard yesterday









I don't have the money for mechanical right now.

Thanks


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fiskan* 
Need help here.

I need a quick replacement keyboard cause there's a tourney this weekend. I'm looking at the logitech k100(membrane i guess) because its the cheapest here and it's ps2. Ps2 for keyboards are supposed to be better right?

What do you guys think about it? I really need it urgently because i broke the left shift key on my keyboard yesterday









I don't have the money for mechanical right now.

Thanks

Get a Dell AT101w $20 shipped, that's a cheap board. But it's well made.


----------



## fiskan

It'll probably take more than a week before i get it considering international shipping :\\

Right now im trying to decide between:

Classic Keyboard K100 - PS/2 - Black
NewTouch 200 KB - USB - Black

both are seriously cheap and for *urgent* replacement.


----------



## Manyak

The problem is that there's no way to tell if the matrix of those keyboards will block any of your gaming keys. I say just get the PS/2 one.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

well since it's cheap and temporary, just get a usb one for versatility.


----------



## fiskan

All pcs should come with a ps2 port right? I was considering to use this keyboard till i have enough money for mechanical.

I was reading somewhere that usb limits mechanical keyboards from NKRO to 6KRO while ps2 doesn't. Does this apply similarly to membrane keyboards?

Thanks btw.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fiskan*


All pcs should come with a ps2 port right? I was considering to use this keyboard till i have enough money for mechanical.

I was reading somewhere that usb limits mechanical keyboards from NKRO to 6KRO while ps2 doesn't. Does this apply similarly to membrane keyboards?

Thanks btw.


It applies to _any_ keyboard, but that doesn't mean that it actually helps. Your keyboard has to be able to report over 6+4 keys to begin with, otherwise it doesn't matter.


----------



## pow3rtr1p

Mine makes no noise, no matter how hard I flex it or anything.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

And with a 20 dollar logitech, I don't think a PS2 connector will help.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Just purchased a new Deck Legend - Ice (Tactile)









Can't wait 'till it gets here. I didn't really want Ice as I'd rather have the Fire or Toxic versions, but I also really wanted tactile switches. I decided functionality > looks

This should be the last keyboard I ever buy (but I have a sneaking suspicion I'm going to want a ten key-less or smaller after this. Something for my laptop while I'm in the lab)


----------



## fiskan

So i just went to the tech store and got myself the K100.

I gotta say with ps2, everything feels smoother. I could hold more keys (4-5) than my previous logitech usb and razer arctosa.

Looks nice as well.


----------



## Ktulu

Does the keyboard have to inherently be PS2 or will attaching an adapter to USB produce the same results such less delay?


----------



## Otterclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fiskan* 
So i just went to the tech store and got myself the K100.

I gotta say with ps2, everything feels smoother. I could hold more keys (4-5) than my previous logitech usb and razer arctosa.

Looks nice as well.

I've never seen that one before. Good looking board, actually. The only place I could find it online was at a version of Logitech's site that listed boards in Hong Kong dollars. Maybe it's not in release state side. Some of the lower end logitechs really aren't bad at all if you just need a decent, low cost keyboard.


----------



## fiskan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ktulu* 
Does the keyboard have to inherently be PS2 or will attaching an adapter to USB produce the same results such less delay?

It came with a ps2 jack. Not sure about using adapters though. I tried using the usb-to-ps2 (came with my mouse) adapter on a usb keyboard. Didn't work, wasn't even turning on.

On a side note, holding A+S+C (diagonal left + walking, 1.6) locks up the keyboard and the machine produced some beeping sounds. No problem though, i was more than happy to change my walk key to "v". Stupid arctosa made me rebind it to "c" :\\ Other than that, everything seems to be working flawlessly.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Just purchased a new Deck Legend - Ice (Tactile)









Can't wait 'till it gets here. I didn't really want Ice as I'd rather have the Fire or Toxic versions, but I also really wanted tactile switches. I decided functionality > looks

This should be the last keyboard I ever buy (but I have a sneaking suspicion I'm going to want a ten key-less or smaller after this. Something for my laptop while I'm in the lab)


Indeed! Form always follows function. But most keyboards today seem to be saying that function follows form. I'm only saying this because even though some of these keyboards have tons of features and aggressive styling, they're still just cheap rubber dome (membrane) keyboards inside.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ktulu*


Does the keyboard have to inherently be PS2 or will attaching an adapter to USB produce the same results such less delay?


I believe that the keyboard has to have a PS/2 controller in it in order to work with a USB to PS/2 adapter (so that the keyboard can plug into a PS/2 port). I mean, I think the benefit gained depends on having a built-in controller, but I'm not sure.









For example: Filco's Majestouch keyboards have 2 flavors where some don't have full NKRO and some do: but yet both come with a USB to PS/2 adapter. But with the NKRO boards, the only way to experience the full NKRO is to use the USB to PS/2 adapter. But with the non NKRO boards, I think the only benefit of using the USB to PS/2 adapter might be just as simple as not occupying one of the USB ports so that it can be used for something else. I supposed another benefit might be for older systems where the BIOS can't be operated by a USB keyboard.

I suppose another benefit could be that using PS/2 instead of USB means no delays of any kind. Actually, something about that sounds familiar, so I'm going to say that it is definitely a benefit which I suppose is why many of these mechanical keyboards come with a USB to PS/2 adapter.

*Edit:* I just found out why that was familiar. This is an excerpt from Post #5 in this thread ("Features To Look For and Myths To Ignore"):

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


*Polling Rates and Response Times*
While it is very useful for mice, it's just about meaningless for keyboards. Let's assume for a minute that all switches have the 5ms debouncing time of Cherry MX switches (which is being very generous). Even if you had super human speed and reflexes, every single key would be delayed by at least that much. So really, any polling rate over 200Hz (at best) is absolutely useless, and nothing but market hype. It may even be a bit detrimental, because you'd be wasting CPU time polling the keyboard unneededly. And unlike USB keyboards, PS/2 boards aren't polled at all. They simply send the signal to the PC whenever they are ready to, which causes a hardware interrupt, forcing the CPU to register that keystroke.

*PS/2 or USB?*
PS/2 wins on three fronts: First, it supports full n-key rollover. Second, PS/2 keyboards aren't polled, but are completely interrupt based. And third, it is impossible for it to be delayed by the USB bus being used by other devices. There are two types of USB transfer modes -  the interrupt transfer mode (USB polls keyboard, when key is sensed the USB controller sends the interrupt to the CPU), and the isochronous transfer mode, which reserves a certain amount of bandwidth for the keyboard with a guaranteed latency on the bus. Unfortunately, there are absolutely no keyboards made that use the latter, because special controllers would have to be used, thus making it cost prohibitive.

So if your keyboard supports both PS/2 and USB, and your PC has a PS/2 port, there's no reason not to use it.


So there it is! However, I want to say again that using the USB to PS/2 adapter does not give you full NKRO. It's just that if the board features full NKRO, then the only way to get the full NKRO is to use the USB to PS/2 adapter.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ktulu* 
Does the keyboard have to inherently be PS2 or will attaching an adapter to USB produce the same results such less delay?

It must be native PS/2. If you're talking about passive adapters, the keyboard must be native to both USB and PS/2 to use it.

If you mean active adapters, these things act like a computer on the keyboard side, store the keystrokes in memory, and then pretend to be a keyboard over USB and send them that way. And I mean this to the point where in device manager you don't see your own keyboard, you see this adapter. So these adapters always add a delay to keystrokes. It's not usually a noticeable delay, but still, it's extra work that has to be done.


----------



## Ktulu

I have this Logitech Wireless USB Keyboard. I was thinking about upgrading to the ABS M1 or the iONE version for around the same price.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ktulu*


I have this Logitech Wireless USB Keyboard. I was thinking about upgrading to the ABS M1 or the iONE version for around the same price.


Do an Ebay on the Dell AT101w if you can. It's just a tad nicer for half the price.

Can'o'crylon later, and you'll have a nice black board.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ktulu*


I have this Logitech Wireless USB Keyboard. I was thinking about upgrading to the ABS M1 or the iONE version for around the same price.


Just a fair warning: these kinds of keyboards aren't anywhere near as quiet, but they should still provide a superior typing experience. However, these keyboards are really only loud when the keycaps are bottomed out against the body of the keyboard. I imagine that the Logitech LX710 remains fairly quiet even when typing fairly hard, so that's why I am saying all this.

Now, I'm curious: what's your primary use of the keyboard?

*Edit:* hehe Tator Tot, _"Can'o'crylon later, and you'll have a nice black board."_ I don't know why, but it made me chuckle.









Ktulu: in light of Tator Tot's good recommendation, please check out the video at the bottom of this page: http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg...mystified.aspx.

I also highly recommend reading that whole article very carefully. Now that I have a mechanical keyboard, I certainly see why Manyak included it in the OP of this thread.

I also recommend checking out these videos here:

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rch_type=&aq=f

This is a search for "Dell AT101W".

And here:

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rch_type=&aq=f

This is a search for "ABS M1".


----------



## Ktulu

I think I have the Dell AT101w in my closet, but it is SOOO dirty, could it be cleaned like new again?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ktulu*


I think I have the Dell AT101w in my closet, but it is SOOO dirty, could it be cleaned like new again?


Easily! But how clean it gets depends completely on you. All I can recommend is that you should be extremely detail-oriented when cleaning it. It'll be worth it.


----------



## lmnop

simple green is unearthly strong and contains no solvents so it won't warp or weaken any plastic. get a bucket and fill it with warm water and simple green. put the keycaps in and let them soak. you can wipe the face plate and casing down with a little simple green on a tack cloth.

if you really want to clean it thoroughly you will have to disassemble, desolder, clean, reassemble, solder and would take you probably 3-4 hours to do.

Christine


----------



## Ktulu

Thanks guys. I don't know how to solder, but I will disassemble it as much as possible. I was also thinking of getting new keys and spray painting it like tot said.

Thanks for the advice.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ktulu* 
Thanks guys. I don't know how to solder, but I will disassemble it as much as possible. I was also thinking of getting new keys and spray painting it like tot said.

Thanks for the advice.

You won't need to solder. All you'll have to do is take it apart as much as you can, clean it as thoroughly as humanly possible (and again, pay close attention to the tiny details), and the put it back together.

Then you'll have yourself a brand new Dell AT101W.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I just got a PS/2->USB converter, and it was a disappointment _and_ a pleasant surprise.

I intended to use my Cherry keyboard as a gaming keyboard, and the Model M as a typing keyboard. I knew that the Model M has problems with USB adapters so I planned to use the Cherry via USB.

So I got this.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812101117

Plug the Cherry in via that, play a game... AAAARRRGHHH. It has the issue where if you're holding a key, then press another key, it stops sending the first key. So if you're in a game holding W (run forward) then press space (jump) you'll stop moving forward.

So I figured I'd just wasted $10. But then I thought, hey, for the hell of it I'll try the Model M. And the M works with it! Only like 1 in 4 work with the M, most adapters can't provide the power needed.

They couldn't be bothered to fix the multi-key issue, but they could build it rugged enough to power a Model M? Bizarre. Anyway, the end result is the same. The Cherry is plugged in via PS/2 and is working as my gaming keyboard, while the Model M is plugged in via USB and working as my typing board. Magnifico.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

That is kinda weird. Oh well.










Them good ramen.


----------



## Manyak

..........ramen......over a filco.....


----------



## TwoCables

Oh so you *did* post that pic here! I just came from the random pics and vids thread.







But again: that white Majestouch Tactile Click "Otaku" looks beautiful in that light!


----------



## TwoCables

Is it just my imagination, or do the Majestouch and ABS M1 boards look pretty much identical? I mean, I know they use different switches, but other than that, they look absolutely identical.

You see, over the past few days, I've been looking at my keyboard and thinking about how much it looks like the ABS M1. So, I decided to look at some pictures of the M1, and sure enough there appear to be only extremely minor differences. Again, I know that their switches are different, but everything else looks perfectly identical.

So, what's going on here?


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Is it just my imagination, or do the Majestouch and ABS M1 boards look pretty much identical? I mean, I know they use different switches, but other than that, they look absolutely identical.

You see, over the past few days, I've been looking at my keyboard and thinking about how much it looks like the ABS M1. So, I decided to look at some pictures of the M1, and sure enough there appear to be only extremely minor differences. Again, I know that their switches are different, but everything else looks perfectly identical.

So, what's going on here?

The keys also have different print on them.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Is it just my imagination, or do the Majestouch and ABS M1 boards look pretty much identical? I mean, I know they use different switches, but other than that, they look absolutely identical.

You see, over the past few days, I've been looking at my keyboard and thinking about how much it looks like the ABS M1. So, I decided to look at some pictures of the M1, and sure enough there appear to be only extremely minor differences. Again, I know that their switches are different, but everything else looks perfectly identical.

So, what's going on here?

The M1's just a tad smaller than the Majestouch.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

They're both manufactured by Costar, I believe. Could be using similar molds.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skylit*


The keys also have different print on them.


After comparing the pictures on Newegg to my new Majestouch, I noticed one thing: regarding the appearance alone, everything about these 2 keyboards is perfectly identical with the exception of the logo and the color of the LEDs. And I mean *everything*.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


The M1's just a tad smaller than the Majestouch.


Then it must be by about 1mm because I honestly can't see a difference.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


They're both manufactured by Costar, I believe. Could be using similar molds.


Like I'm saying, the pictures of the ABS M1 look perfectly identical to the Majestouch I'm typing on right now. I just kinda find this to be very interesting.

Now, don't me wrong. I'd much rather have the Cherry MX Blues, NKRO as well as certain aesthetics like the red Esc key and the pretty Filco logo (oh, and these green LEDs). But it just looks like I'm using a super beefed up ABS M1.

I guess I'm not really trying to _say_ anything, but it's just that I found this to be quite interesting.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Then it must be by about 1mm.


It is, in length (Caps side to Num-Pad side.)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


It is, in length (Caps side to Num-Pad side.)


I think I'm seeing it now. I thought it was just the Newegg pictures.

*Edit:* I was wrong. The pictures at Elite Keyboards look exactly like the ABS M1 in respect to what I thought I was just beginning to see. Regardless, though: I'm finding this to be a little bit fun.


----------



## itschadlol

i'm terribly torn on what keyboard to get









between the das keyboard ultimate and the steelseries 7G. 
I feel partial to the 7G for 2 reasons:
1) its black switches and im, essentially, buying the keyboard for gaming to 
replace my logitech G110

2) das keyboard doesnt have any sort of wrist thing, which i do enjoy using, but the steelseries one is plastic so i would probably get a quality one eventually anyway.

but ive never typed on a 7G. And I have typed on das keyboard. and I did enjoy it. but ive never gamed on it, and i worry if the "tactility" of it will have an effect on quickly doubletapping certain keys. I also really enjoy the large backspace and blank keys of das keyboard.

ffff.

maybe ill get das keyboard since its cheaper and spend A LOT of time gaming on it, and if i decide id rather black switches, just return it before the 30 days are over >_>

opinions?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *itschadlol*


i'm terribly torn on what keyboard to get









between the das keyboard ultimate and the steelseries 7G. 
I feel partial to the 7G for 2 reasons:
1) its black switches and im, essentially, buying the keyboard for gaming to 
replace my logitech G110

2) das keyboard doesnt have any sort of wrist thing, which i do enjoy using, but the steelseries one is plastic so i would probably get a quality one eventually anyway.

but ive never typed on a 7G. And I have typed on das keyboard. and I did enjoy it. but ive never gamed on it, and i worry if the "tactility" of it will have an effect on quickly doubletapping certain keys. I also really enjoy the large backspace and blank keys of das keyboard.

ffff.

maybe ill get das keyboard since its cheaper and spend A LOT of time gaming on it, and if i decide id rather black switches, just return it before the 30 days are over >_>

opinions?


I feel the same way you do about having the bigger, standard-sized Backspace key. So, since you're already looking at spending this much, how would you feel about spending a little more on the Filco Majestouch Linear Force?

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...id=fkbn104mleb


----------



## itschadlol

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I feel the same way you do about having the bigger, standard-sized Backspace key. So, since you're already looking at spending this much, how would you feel about spending a little more on the Filco Majestouch Linear Force?

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...id=fkbn104mleb


i had looked at and considered that one, and came to the conclusion that i really dislike the gold "filco" label in the top right, just kind of looks tacky to me, and if i were to get it, i would also want to spend $30 on the blank keycaps, money that i would spend on a wrist . . rest. . .thing if i were to get das keyboard.

Obviously blank keys arent an option on the 7G, but the fact that i have the option means i want the option, if that makes sense.

that certainly doesnt totally get rid of the filco as an option, but i have to ask myself:

in moving from a rubber dome keyboard and having never spent a LARGE amount of time on a mechanical keyboard, would I REALLY notice the difference between black and blue? and I DO do a decent amount of paper typing for physics conferences and such when I have to travel and present, so that is also a factor

erggg


----------



## W4LNUT5

Gah! I'm so excited. My Deck shows up tomorrow


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *itschadlol* 
i had looked at and considered that one, and came to the conclusion that i really dislike the gold "filco" label in the top right, just kind of looks tacky to me, and if i were to get it, i would also want to spend $30 on the blank keycaps, money that i would spend on a wrist . . rest. . .thing if i were to get das keyboard.

Obviously blank keys arent an option on the 7G, but the fact that i have the option means i want the option, if that makes sense.

that certainly doesnt totally get rid of the filco as an option, but i have to ask myself:

in moving from a rubber dome keyboard and having never spent a LARGE amount of time on a mechanical keyboard, would I REALLY notice the difference between black and blue? and I DO do a decent amount of paper typing for physics conferences and such when I have to travel and present, so that is also a factor

erggg









I can't believe that I forgot about the wrist rest. I apologize for that.

But regarding the Filco logo: as you continue shopping for mechanical keyboards, one of the things you have to try and be the least concerned about is the appearance. Yeah, it does play a role, and yeah I'm extremely happy about my Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO's appearance, but I'm much happier about what's "under the hood". Now that I know what it's like to type on this keyboard and how high the build quality is, I wouldn't care if it were butt-ugly. Although, that would be kind of cool since it would draw attention. hehe

But regarding the difference between the Cherry MX Blacks and the Blues: with the Blacks, there's no bump of resistance (no tactile feedback) at the beginning of the keystroke. It's just a smooth keystroke. So, the reason why it's not as good for typing as the Blues is because it doesn't have that tactile feedback which provides a very precise feeling.

But since you sometimes do a great deal of typing, I would say that a Tactile switch might be the best option. So, the Cherry MX Browns could be the best bet since it has the tactile feedback for typing, but it requires a little bit less force to press the key so it could prove to be a good choice for gaming too.

Fortunately, you should be able to replace the keycaps on any board you buy that has the Cherry MX switches.


----------



## itschadlol

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I can't believe that I forgot about the wrist rest. I apologize for that.

But regarding the Filco logo: as you continue shopping for mechanical keyboards, one of the things you have to try and be the least concerned about is the appearance. Yeah, it does play a role, and yeah I'm extremely happy about my Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO's appearance, but I'm much happier about what's "under the hood". Now that I know what it's like to type on this keyboard and how high the build quality is, I wouldn't care if it were butt-ugly. Although, that would be kind of cool since it would draw attention. hehe

But regarding the difference between the Cherry MX Blacks and the Blues: with the Blacks, there's no bump of resistance (no tactile feedback) at the beginning of the keystroke. It's just a smooth keystroke. So, the reason why it's not as good for typing as the Blues is because it doesn't have that tactile feedback which provides a very precise feeling.

But since you sometimes do a great deal of typing, I would say that a Tactile switch might be the best option. So, the Cherry MX Browns could be the best bet since it has the tactile feedback for typing, but it requires a little bit less force to press the key so it could prove to be a good choice for gaming too.

Fortunately, you should be able to replace the keycaps on any board you buy that has the Cherry MX switches.


Ah, I've read some bad things about brown switches in general, and NKRO is a major factor for me, which the filco brown doesn't have.

I dunno. I really wonder exactly how big of a difference the tactile feedback is going to make versus not having any. I cant see it being a HUGE curve for gaming, and im only seriously playing counterstrike, not things that require tons of constant doubletaps like unreal would or something of that nature. and I always have my logitech G13 gamepad i could go to for that









and unfortunately, i dont think the steelseries keyboard uses the same type of keys or whatever. plus with some of the keys being different shapes, finding blank caps would be an issue

I think I might get das keyboard.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *itschadlol*


*Ah, I've read some bad things about brown switches in general, and NKRO is a major factor for me, which the filco brown doesn't have.*

I dunno. I really wonder exactly how big of a difference the tactile feedback is going to make versus not having any. I cant see it being a HUGE curve for gaming, and im only seriously playing counterstrike, not things that require tons of constant doubletaps like unreal would or something of that nature. and I always have my logitech G13 gamepad i could go to for that









and unfortunately, i dont think the steelseries keyboard uses the same type of keys or whatever. plus with some of the keys being different shapes, finding blank caps would be an issue

I think I might get das keyboard.


http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...ilter=fullsize

Second Item in the list. Filco Majestouch Brown w/ NKRO


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *itschadlol*


Ah, I've read some bad things about brown switches in general, and NKRO is a major factor for me, which the filco brown doesn't have.

I dunno. I really wonder exactly how big of a difference the tactile feedback is going to make versus not having any. I cant see it being a HUGE curve for gaming, and im only seriously playing counterstrike, not things that require tons of constant doubletaps like unreal would or something of that nature. and I always have my logitech G13 gamepad i could go to for that









and unfortunately, i dont think the steelseries keyboard uses the same type of keys or whatever. plus with some of the keys being different shapes, finding blank caps would be an issue

I think I might get das keyboard.


But Filco has the Majestouch Tactile Touch NKRO:

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...pid=fkbn104meb

This is the Majestouch with the Cherry MX Browns (which is why it's called the Tactile Touch as opposed to the Tactile Click).

But if you can handle a tenkeyless board, then all of Filco's Tenkeyless Majestouch boards have full NKRO:

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...jestouch_87key

Actually, here's the entire line of Filco boards at Elite Keyboards:

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...ilco_keyboards

As for the Steelseries 7G: it uses the Cherry MX Black switches, so you could switch the keycaps out with any other keycaps you want (except I don't think it's possible to change the Enter and Backspace keys). The shape of the stem on the Cherry MX switches is the same from switch to switch.

Oh, and regarding the Das Model S: I don't think that it has full NKRO in the same way that the Majestouch NKRO boards have it. I mean, I think it's kinda limited. But there is a decent chance that you will never use any key combinations that reveal the limitation. However, you'll be cleaning that high-gloss finish very, very frequently.


----------



## itschadlol

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But Filco has the Majestouch Tactile Touch NKRO:

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...pid=fkbn104meb

This is the Majestouch with the Cherry MX Browns (which is why it's called the Tactile Touch as opposed to the Tactile Click).

But if you can handle a tenkeyless board, then all of Filco's Tenkeyless Majestouch boards have full NKRO:

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...jestouch_87key

Actually, here's the entire line of Filco boards at Elite Keyboards:

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...ilco_keyboards

As for the Steelseries 7G: it uses the Cherry MX Black switches, so you could switch the keycaps out with any other keycaps you want (except I don't think it's possible to change the Enter and Backspace keys). The shape of the stem on the Cherry MX switches is the same from switch to switch.

Oh, and regarding the Das Model S: I don't think that it has full NKRO in the same way that the Majestouch NKRO boards have it. I mean, I think it's kinda limited. But there is a decent chance that you will never use any key combinations that reveal the limitation. However, you'll be cleaning that high-gloss finish very, very frequently.

I see that there is also a filco MX Brown that comes stock with blank keys, meaning i wouldnt have to buy them and could then afford to get a wrist pad!

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...d=fkbn104mnpek

So what exactly is the MAJOR difference between the black/brown/blues? Is it raelly mostly about "feel" and "tactility" ?

I dont think i'll notice a difference of 2 newtons of force requirement.

i still dont like the logo. . . but i GUESS i could get over it.

Does filco have the option to get a refund if i just don't like the keyboard for whatever reason?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *itschadlol* 
I see that there is also a filco MX Brown that comes stock with blank keys, meaning i wouldnt have to buy them and could then afford to get a wrist pad!

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...d=fkbn104mnpek

So what exactly is the MAJOR difference between the black/brown/blues? Is it raelly mostly about "feel" and "tactility" ?

I dont think i'll notice a difference of 2 newtons of force requirement.

i still dont like the logo. . . but i GUESS i could get over it.

Does filco have the option to get a refund if i just don't like the keyboard for whatever reason?

Fortunately, the logo doesn't look quite that color in real life. I think it looks far better in real life than it does in the pics and it doesn't stick out at all like that.
*Edit:* actually, the color of the logo changes a little depending on your viewing angle and the light.

It's all about the way the switches feel:

The Cherry MX Black switches are smooth all the way from the beginning of the keystroke to the end. It's basically just a spring, and it requires 60 grams of force to actuate (about 60 paper clips).

The Cherry MX Blues have a distinct tactile feedback at the beginning of the keystroke that is accompanied by a subtle click sound (like a quieter version of a retractable pen). They need 50 grams of force to actuate.

The Cherry MX Browns require about 45 grams to actuate, and have a tactile feedback at the beginning of the keystroke, but it is not accompanied by any sound. These switches are said to be noticeably easier to press than the Cherry MX Blues.

As for Elite Keyboards' return policy, here it is and worded better than I can word it:

Quote:

FILCO Returns and Exchanges

Returns for exchange ONLY will be allowed for DOA products for a period of 30 days from date of purchase. No returns will be accepted without prior e-mail approval and a RMA number.
Here are their warranty terms:

http://elitekeyboards.com/support.php#warranty


----------



## itschadlol

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Fortunately, the logo doesn't look quite that color in real life. I think it looks far better in real life than it does in the pics and it doesn't stick out at all like that.
*Edit:* actually, the color of the logo changes a little depending on your viewing angle and the light.

It's all about the way the switches feel:

The Cherry MX Black switches are smooth all the way from the beginning of the keystroke to the end. It's basically just a spring, and it requires 60 grams of force to actuate (about 60 paper clips).

The Cherry MX Blues have a distinct tactile feedback at the beginning of the keystroke that is accompanied by a subtle click sound (like a quieter version of a retractable pen). They need 50 grams of force to actuate.

The Cherry MX Browns require about 45 grams to actuate, and have a tactile feedback at the beginning of the keystroke, but it is not accompanied by any sound. These switches are said to be noticeably easier to press than the Cherry MX Blues.

As for Elite Keyboards' return policy, here it is and worded better than I can word it:
Here are their warranty terms:

http://elitekeyboards.com/support.php#warranty

eh **** it uve talked me into it >_> lol

i hope i enjoy!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *itschadlol* 
eh **** it uve talked me into it >_> lol

i hope i enjoy!

Oh no did you order it? hehe If so, was it the Tactile Touch "Otaku" NKRO? That keyboard is kinda dreamy!


----------



## itschadlol

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Oh no did you order it? hehe If so, was it the Tactile Touch "Otaku" NKRO? That keyboard is kinda dreamy!

im ordering it as soon as my credit card payment goes through :S had to buy new tires last month and they more or less maxed my card out >_> LOL.

yeah thats the one i mgettin tho


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *itschadlol* 
im ordering it as soon as my credit card payment goes through :S had to buy new tires last month and they more or less maxed my card out >_> LOL.

yeah thats the one i mgettin tho

Oooo new tires!! I recently got new tires too! I got Michelin's Harmony tires which are surprisingly really good tires.







When I was shopping around for new tires, I sorta became a tire geek for a while.









Anyway, I am very confident that you'll be extremely happy with this board. One of my favorite things is Filco's attention to detail. But you may see what I mean once you open the box and finally start taking the keyboard out and getting it ready to be used.

Oh, and speaking of using it: don't forget to use the USB to PS/2 adapter in order to experience this board's full NKRO capability.

Oh, and one more thing: try to practice pressing the keys very gently so that the keycaps aren't bottomed out against the body of the keyboard. This way the keyboard will be as quiet as possible. Otherwise, it'll make that loud clacky sound of the plastic keycap hitting the body of the keyboard.


----------



## itschadlol

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Oooo new tires!! I recently got new tires too! I got Michelin's Harmony tires which are surprisingly really good tires.







When I was shopping around for new tires, I sorta became a tire geek for a while.









Anyway, I am very confident that you'll be extremely happy with this board. One of my favorite things is Filco's attention to detail. But you may see what I mean once you open the box and finally start taking the keyboard out and getting it ready to be used.

Oh, and speaking of using it: don't forget to use the USB to PS/2 adapter in order to experience this board's full NKRO capability.

Oh, and one more thing: try to practice pressing the keys very gently so that the keycaps aren't bottomed out against the body of the keyboard. This way the keyboard will be as quiet as possible. Otherwise, it'll make that loud clacky sound of the plastic keycap hitting the body of the keyboard.









will do









im really excited about this keyboard. I mean i dont . . NOT LIKE . . my logitech. but since ive been trying to get back into professional counterstrike it just feels. . .like im typing in mud


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *itschadlol* 
will do









im really excited about this keyboard. I mean i dont . . NOT LIKE . . my logitech. but since ive been trying to get back into professional counterstrike it just feels. . .like im typing in mud

Oh, what a perfect description. I still have my Razer Lycosa, and I've been told that I should take it out and type on it one of these days soon now that I'm so used to this Majestouch. I was told that the typing would feel very mushy. And y'know, mud is mushy!

I'm excited too, though. I can hardly wait for you to order it, receive it and read what you think about it!


----------



## itschadlol

yea I'll definitely be updating.

Once i get this, my next purchase will be some custom molded IEMs.

I wish audiophilia was as cheap as finding a good keyboard


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *itschadlol* 
yea I'll definitely be updating.

Once i get this, my next purchase will be some custom molded IEMs.

I wish audiophilia was as cheap as finding a good keyboard









No kidding. Although, I'm not an audiophile, so I think it would be hard for me spend money on some custom molded IEMs. But I'm happy enough with my slightly older Sony MDR-EX71 which I bought for $49.99 new from Best Buy. They're just consumer ear buds, but I sure like them.

Anyway, I have to log off. I'll be back in like 8-12 hours tho.


----------



## olli3

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Oh, what a perfect description. I still have my Razer Lycosa, and I've been told that I should take it out and type on it one of these days soon now that I'm so used to this Majestouch. I was told that the typing would feel very mushy. And y'know, mud is mushy!

Haha yeah you really should try your old keyboard! I got out my MS ergonomic 4000 that I was using before I got my AT101 and then Majestouch, and used it for a while just to see what it was like, and I actually was lost for words at how horrible it is. I literally can't believe I used cheap keyboards like that for my whole life! Its so mushy and what also surprised me a lot was how slow it was to type on. Once you get used to not bottoming out keys and gliding across the board, a rubber dome board really puts an extra strain on your hands.

Also have to used cheap HP keyboards at uni and its horrible, its almost tempting to take in my majestouch but I think that's going a bit far since I do hardly any typing when at uni anyway lol.

What surprises me though is that when I type on my girlfriends laptop it doesn't feel that bad, and it was a very cheap laptop. Why cheap scissor switch boards haven't become the norm doesn't make sense to me, I'd rather use one of them any day. I guess its because of them being shallow and maybe easier to break? Don't know, but as long as I got a Majestouch I will sleep easy


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *olli3*


Haha yeah you really should try your old keyboard! I got out my MS ergonomic 4000 that I was using before I got my AT101 and then Majestouch, and used it for a while just to see what it was like, and I actually was lost for words at how horrible it is. I literally can't believe I used cheap keyboards like that for my whole life! Its so mushy and what also surprised me a lot was how slow it was to type on. Once you get used to not bottoming out keys and gliding across the board, a rubber dome board really puts an extra strain on your hands.

Also have to used cheap HP keyboards at uni and its horrible, its almost tempting to take in my majestouch but I think that's going a bit far since I do hardly any typing when at uni anyway lol.

What surprises me though is that when I type on my girlfriends laptop it doesn't feel that bad, and it was a very cheap laptop. Why cheap scissor switch boards haven't become the norm doesn't make sense to me, I'd rather use one of them any day. I guess its because of them being shallow and maybe easier to break? Don't know, but as long as I got a Majestouch I will sleep easy










Exactly! I haven't tried my old board yet, but I certainly remember it! And as a result, I kinda came up with this: these good mechanical keyboards are basically doing almost half of the work FOR you because your fingers are just constantly bouncing off a bunch of springs! It's like a bunch of comfortable little springboards. It's very lively and it's almost like the keyboard is participating in the keypresses. But typing on boards like the Lycosa is like trying to bounce off of mud.

*Edit:* I know I was going to log off, but I opened up Notepad and started jamming on my keyboard. So then I decided to log back in for a minute.


----------



## Manyak

LOL twocables, you should bust out your lycosa right now









It's a whole different ballgame when you go _back_ to what you used to use and see what it's like with some new perspective.


----------



## Skirr

I was researching keyboards and stumbled on your massive thread here, it was a huge wealth of information so I had to try out a mechanical switch keyboard vs my broken down G15. I remember my first keyboards and the keyboards at school and I always enjoyed that feel of the mechanical switch. But I wasn't sure I could justify buying a 150 dollar keyboard without trying one again, so I picked up an ABS M1. Long story short I'm in love with the way it feels when I'm gaming and typing.

I left the G15 plugged in (the space bar stopped working well) and I keep switching back and forth and the Logitech feels completely gross. Plus I never used the media keys or the LCD panel. AutoHotkey wins.

So thank you Manyak for reopening my eyes back to mechanical keyboards.

I do have a few questions however, my wife already is complaining about how much louder this ABS M1 is versus my G15. Is it because I'm bottoming out the keys, or is it the cheap switches in this ABS M1. Could I expect the same overall sound if I bought a nicer quality Filco with black switches, or maybe brown?

I game way more than I type, what are your guys opinions on the browns feedback for gaming? Does it get annoying?

And do any keyboard manufactures make keyboards with reds? I was curious to try some.


----------



## Manyak

Yeah the sound is just because you are bottoming out. The more you get used to it the less you'll bottom out, AND the more that both you and your wife get used to the sound the less you'll actually hear it - it becomes a kind of unconscious thing (kind of like if you live on a busy road, you eventually stop hearing the cars unless you pay attention to them).

The sound between boards always differs, even when they use the same switches. The different casings and keycaps all have different acoustics. But they will _all_ make sound when you bottom out. Well, except for a few rubber-dampened switches that are no longer made. If the sound is really that bad for you maybe you should pick up a Deck with Cherry Clears or a Topre Realforce/HHKB.

The MX browns are similar to the Black Alps in your M1, the feel is only slightly different. If the feedback in the Alps doesn't throw off your game, then the feedback of the Browns won't either.

Right now it's virtually impossible to find a keyboard with Reds in the US. You have to know someone in Asia to get them (Japan, Korea, ...). But later this year the Miniguru is coming out, and it will have the option for you to use reds. And it's nice and small, so it would work very well if you wanted to use it just for gaming and have something else for typing (more space for you to move the mouse!). But what you could do - if you cared - is to get both MX Black and MX Brown switches, and then swap the springs inside of them. It's very tedious though.


----------



## nijikon5

Manyak: Used a Keytronics KB this weekend at a LAN out of state ( had a rig provided for me ). Brought my Kinzu / 7G but the rig didnt have a p/s2 slot and I didn't bring my p/s2 to USB converter. I also used G15 for sometime too.. Man these rubber dome KBs just feel like such piles of mush compared to mechanical KBs. I don't understand how anyone can justify spending anymore than 10 dollars for a non-mechanical. I was demo'ing KBs at Frys today and all of them felt like mushy crap ( Saitek, G15, Lycosa ect ect ).


----------



## Manyak

lol, doesn't it suck?









I mean, on one hand, you now use one of the top 1% of keyboards in the world.

On the other hand, it's suddenly become absolutely terrible to use anything else.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


lol, doesn't it suck?









I mean, on one hand, you now use one of the top 1% of keyboards in the world.

On the other hand, it's suddenly become absolutely terrible to use anything else.


It's part of the reason I'll probably invest in a small mech keyboard to take with me (for my laptop). I always have my backpack and lappy with me, so even if I use another computer, I could just be that dork who pull out his own keyboard


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


It's part of the reason I'll probably invest in a small mech keyboard to take with me (for my laptop). I always have my backpack and lappy with me, so even if I use another computer, I could just be that dork who pull out his own keyboard










Or you could go the easy route and just get a thinkpad









They actually have _very_ nice keyboards for being laptops. Good tactile feedback, nice curved keys, standard spacing, and no flex whatsoever.

The keyboard and trackpoint alone are pretty much 1/2 the reason I bought one.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Or you could go the easy route and just get a thinkpad









They actually have _very_ nice keyboards for being laptops. Good tactile feedback, nice curved keys, standard spacing, and no flex whatsoever.

The keyboard and trackpoint alone are pretty much 1/2 the reason I bought one.


Had an older one. Could never get used to the trackpoint. Keyboard was solid, and I like the keyboard on my newer compaq as well.


----------



## Skirr

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 









Yeah the sound is just because you are bottoming out. The more you get used to it the less you'll bottom out, AND the more that both you and your wife get used to the sound the less you'll actually hear it - it becomes a kind of unconscious thing (kind of like if you live on a busy road, you eventually stop hearing the cars unless you pay attention to them).

The sound between boards always differs, even when they use the same switches. The different casings and keycaps all have different acoustics. But they will _all_ make sound when you bottom out. Well, except for a few rubber-dampened switches that are no longer made. If the sound is really that bad for you maybe you should pick up a Deck with Cherry Clears or a Topre Realforce/HHKB.

The MX browns are similar to the Black Alps in your M1, the feel is only slightly different. If the feedback in the Alps doesn't throw off your game, then the feedback of the Browns won't either.

Right now it's virtually impossible to find a keyboard with Reds in the US. You have to know someone in Asia to get them (Japan, Korea, ...). But later this year the Miniguru is coming out, and it will have the option for you to use reds. And it's nice and small, so it would work very well if you wanted to use it just for gaming and have something else for typing (more space for you to move the mouse!). But what you could do - if you cared - is to get both MX Black and MX Brown switches, and then swap the springs inside of them. It's very tedious though.

Thanks for the quick response, how much different are cherry blacks vs the Black Alps in my ABS M1?

And ya I'm already eyeballing the smaller Filco keyboard styles, however it appears all of their browns and blacks are out of stock. I emailed them and they said they will have them in stock as of April.


----------



## Manyak

Cherry Blacks require more force to press, and they don't have that tactile bump at all.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skirr* 
Thanks for the quick response, how much different are cherry blacks vs the Black Alps in my ABS M1?

And ya I'm already eyeballing the smaller Filco keyboard styles, however it appears all of their browns and blacks are out of stock. I emailed them and they said they will have them in stock as of April.

Deck Keyboards use black switches. They even have some new tactile versions which use cherry mx clear switches (a stiffer brown). They are more expensive than Filco Keyboards

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/

Their cheapest model is the "Legend - Fire". They are pretty much the only company that makes backlit mechanical keyboards. They also have a 30 day money back guarantee (not sure if you get stuck with a restocking fee or not)

Just something else to look at


----------



## Skirr

You've turned me into a keyboard monster. I think my friends are getting annoyed at me, I keep demanding they come over and type on my keyboard. Trying to convert as many people as possible. Strange how much money someone will dish out for a low quality keyboard if it has macro keys and useless media keys.


----------



## Skirr

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Deck Keyboards use black switches. They even have some new tactile versions which use cherry mx clear switches (a stiffer brown). They are more expensive than Filco Keyboards

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/

Their cheapest model is the "Legend - Fire". They are pretty much the only company that makes backlit mechanical keyboards. They also have a 30 day money back guarantee (not sure if you get stuck with a restocking fee or not)

Just something else to look at









I was looking into them when I bought my ABS M1, other than the fact they kind of want to shaft me on shipping to Alaska, I'm not sure I'd want to pay more just to have LED's in my keyboard. I don't need to see my keys to type. Are the Filco keyboards higher quality then the deck legend keyboards?

I also saw that they have drastically increased their prices since this thread was first made, and dropped a 10 year warranty down to 1 year which put me off a little.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

iOne is releasing a new backlit mechanical keyboard in Q4 2010 with an MSRP of $150.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=9258


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
iOne is releasing a new backlit mechanical keyboard in Q4 2010 with an MSRP of $150.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=9258

that looks great, although at $150 I'd get a Deck...


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skirr* 
I was looking into them when I bought my ABS M1, other than the fact they kind of want to shaft me on shipping to Alaska, I'm not sure I'd want to pay more just to have LED's in my keyboard. I don't need to see my keys to type. Are the Filco keyboards higher quality then the deck legend keyboards?

I also saw that they have drastically increased their prices since this thread was first made, and dropped a 10 year warranty down to 1 year which put me off a little.











this force graph shows the XM/***kas in your ABS M1 actuate at 70g/1.5mm if this is the case I would keep them. it's just to bad the ABS M1 has a crappy controller in it.

see this thread. doesn't everybody in Alaska get shafted for shipping? I think I remember them having a 10 year warranty as well, but you only need 5 minutes to check to make sure all the LED and Cherry MX Black Linear or Cherry MX Clear switches respond because the probability of either failing is slim but not a guarantee, if you want that, you're going to have to learn to solder and desolder, disassemble and reassemble to ensure the Deck Legend (or Filco) outlives you. the 1 year warranty is better than Filco because you can modify the Deck Legend and when the warranty expires they will still service it for a fee of $60 which is steep but at least they give you the option. it's better to have than to not have. the Filco 87 layouts are nice.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
LOL twocables, you should bust out your lycosa right now









It's a whole different ballgame when you go _back_ to what you used to use and see what it's like with some new perspective.

I think I need a few more days or perhaps a couple more weeks before I'm ready to do this. I don't know why, but it just doesn't feel like the timing is right yet - but it certainly feels like it's close.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skirr* 
I was researching keyboards and stumbled on your massive thread here, it was a huge wealth of information so I had to try out a mechanical switch keyboard vs my broken down G15. I remember my first keyboards and the keyboards at school and I always enjoyed that feel of the mechanical switch. But I wasn't sure I could justify buying a 150 dollar keyboard without trying one again, so I picked up an ABS M1. Long story short I'm in love with the way it feels when I'm gaming and typing.

I left the G15 plugged in (the space bar stopped working well) and I keep switching back and forth and the Logitech feels completely gross. Plus I never used the media keys or the LCD panel. AutoHotkey wins.

So thank you Manyak for reopening my eyes back to mechanical keyboards.

I do have a few questions however, my wife already is complaining about how much louder this ABS M1 is versus my G15. Is it because I'm bottoming out the keys, or is it the cheap switches in this ABS M1. Could I expect the same overall sound if I bought a nicer quality Filco with black switches, or maybe brown?

I game way more than I type, what are your guys opinions on the browns feedback for gaming? Does it get annoying?

And do any keyboard manufactures make keyboards with reds? I was curious to try some.











Yeah the sound is just because you are bottoming out. The more you get used to it the less you'll bottom out, AND the more that both you and your wife get used to the sound the less you'll actually hear it - it becomes a kind of unconscious thing (kind of like if you live on a busy road, you eventually stop hearing the cars unless you pay attention to them).

The sound between boards always differs, even when they use the same switches. The different casings and keycaps all have different acoustics. But they will _all_ make sound when you bottom out. Well, except for a few rubber-dampened switches that are no longer made. If the sound is really that bad for you maybe you should pick up a Deck with Cherry Clears or a Topre Realforce/HHKB.

The MX browns are similar to the Black Alps in your M1, the feel is only slightly different. If the feedback in the Alps doesn't throw off your game, then the feedback of the Browns won't either.

Right now it's virtually impossible to find a keyboard with Reds in the US. You have to know someone in Asia to get them (Japan, Korea, ...). But later this year the Miniguru is coming out, and it will have the option for you to use reds. And it's nice and small, so it would work very well if you wanted to use it just for gaming and have something else for typing (more space for you to move the mouse!). But what you could do - if you cared - is to get both MX Black and MX Brown switches, and then swap the springs inside of them. It's very tedious though.

Skirr: I recommend practicing typing very gently every single day. I mean, literally just open Notepad or something and type whatever comes to your head while putting your best effort into not allowing any of the keycaps to touch the body of the keyboard. You will definitely have to type slower in order to achieve this, but what's nice is you will eventually be able to get back up to speed while retaining this quieter typing. But what's even nicer is that the typing experience will be even better than it is now. So not only will it eventually be quieter 100% of the time, but it'll be even more of a pleasure to use this keyboard.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
Manyak: Used a Keytronics KB this weekend at a LAN out of state ( had a rig provided for me ). Brought my Kinzu / 7G but the rig didnt have a p/s2 slot and I didn't bring my p/s2 to USB converter. I also used G15 for sometime too.. Man these rubber dome KBs just feel like such piles of mush compared to mechanical KBs. I don't understand how anyone can justify spending anymore than 10 dollars for a non-mechanical. I was demo'ing KBs at Frys today and all of them felt like mushy crap ( Saitek, G15, Lycosa ect ect ).

lol, doesn't it suck?









I mean, on one hand, you now use one of the top 1% of keyboards in the world.

On the other hand, it's suddenly become absolutely terrible to use anything else.

lol I am glad to be able to say that I know exactly how you feel. It's so clear to me now that the reasons why people can justify spending that kind of money on those keyboards (like the $80 Lycosa) are the following:

*Ignorance* - It seems that this is mostly caused by the fact that when a person goes shopping for keyboards, all they see are rubber dome switch keyboards.
*Appearance* - I've noticed that most people are far more interested in keyboards that have a very beautiful appearance. Unfortunately, most mechanical keyboards don't have the look that most people seem to want (or, the look that they're told to want). The companies seem to take advantage of the ignorance and make people feel that the cost is justified because they now have the best-looking keyboard at all the LAN parties they go to.
*Hype* - When a person is shopping for a new keyboard, the only things that they're told are important are the features and appearance (and of course, some keyboards have a multitude of features) - and sometimes the feel of the keycaps like with the Lycosa. These companies put so much emphasis on the features and appearance that it causes people to think that those are the only things that matter when shopping for a new keyboard. Worse yet, the people who just want a plain "boring" keyboard will just buy a cheap $5 to $10 and be done with it when they would actually be much happier with a mechanical keyboard. But I think that even those people who think they prefer the most awesome-looking keyboard would be a billion times happier with a mechanical keyboard as long as they gave it an honest shot.
*Cost* - Unfortunately, if companies like Logitech were to begin offering the G15 (or the G19) with Cherry MX switches without changing the features, then the board would likely cost at _least_ twice as much as they cost now and therefore Logitech probably wouldn't be able to make nearly as much profit (which they probably need in order to cover their overhead for the things that have nothing to do with the board itself). I mean, the G15 is currently $89.99 shipped from Newegg and $99.99 from Best Buy, and I bet that it _*easily*_ costs Logitech less than _half_ that to manufacturer one. So this category can also be called "Lack of availability of mechanical keyboards due to the manufacturing cost and eventual selling price".
*Negative connotation with the word "mechanical"* - Unfortunately, I have noticed that some of the first things that people think of when they see the word "mechanical" are: "old", "out-dated", "noisy", "clunky", and "ugly". This is partly due to how the popular keyboard manufacturers have made people think that the rubber dome is superior because it's soft and usually very quiet. But it's also due to how all of the modern popular (or "best") keyboards have the rubber dome switch. So, when they see the word "mechanical", they think that it's quite inferior.
Almost all of these reasons are exactly why I never went with a mechanical keyboard and instead decided to buy the Lycosa. I even felt that the cost was justified because of the Lycosa's features. But another reason is that I didn't know that there was another switch type. I honestly never gave it much thought. I basically just believed that you had keyboards with the rubber dome (quiet keyboards), and keyboards without a rubber dome (louder, cheaper, and generally uglier).

Therefore, when I first learned about mechanical keyboards, I thought that these were the louder, and uglier keyboards that I've been avoiding all these years.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skirr* 
Thanks for the quick response, how much different are cherry blacks vs the Black Alps in my ABS M1?

And ya I'm already eyeballing the smaller Filco keyboard styles, however it appears all of their browns and blacks are out of stock. I emailed them and they said they will have them in stock as of April.

Cherry Blacks require more force to press, and they don't have that tactile bump at all.

Skirr: another way to put it is this: the feeling of a Linear switch is smooth. I mean, it's basically just a spring with no bump of resistance at the beginning of the keystroke.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skirr* 
You've turned me into a keyboard monster. I think my friends are getting annoyed at me, I keep demanding they come over and type on my keyboard. Trying to convert as many people as possible. Strange how much money someone will dish out for a low quality keyboard if it has macro keys and useless media keys.

I bet that if you showed them my list above that it will get them quite interested. But they should also know that I upgraded from the Lycosa to the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO with a bit of hesitation. I mean, while I was pretty much 100% convinced that I was going to love it (and I do), I was also scared that I would hate it at the same time because it doesn't have any features. But I hate saying that this keyboard doesn't have any features (like backlighting, media keys, USB ports, etc.) I mean, thanks to the build quality and the feel of the mechanical switches, this keyboard crushes the Lycosa and makes it feel like a cheap, extremely-overpriced toy. It also feels like the Filco Majestouch has way better features than the Lycosa.

In other words: I want to indirectly help convert them.







Or, I'd rather say that I want to help wake them up.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skirr* 

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Deck Keyboards use black switches. They even have some new tactile versions which use cherry mx clear switches (a stiffer brown). They are more expensive than Filco Keyboards

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/

Their cheapest model is the "Legend - Fire". They are pretty much the only company that makes backlit mechanical keyboards. They also have a 30 day money back guarantee (not sure if you get stuck with a restocking fee or not)

Just something else to look at









I was looking into them when I bought my ABS M1, other than the fact they kind of want to shaft me on shipping to Alaska, I'm not sure I'd want to pay more just to have LED's in my keyboard. I don't need to see my keys to type. Are the Filco keyboards higher quality then the deck legend keyboards?

I've seen others post in this thread who have both keyboards, and they've said that the build quality of the Deck boards is superior to the Majestouch boards. But when looking at keyboards of this caliber, the build quality is about the least important thing since they're fairly similar. Instead, I want to shift the focus from the build quality to the fact that the Deck keyboards use flat keys while the keyboards like the ABS M1 and the Filco Majestouch boards use sculpted keys:

Flat (Deck Legend):









Sculpted (white "Otaku" Filco Majestouch, same as the black ones):









But then there are different sculpted styles such as this Unicomp Customizer 104 (which is basically the best remake of the famous IBM Model M):









So when comparing mechanical keyboards that all have a very high build quality, the importance can be shifted to the features and design (and even the board's appearance). But of course, I am not trying to say that the switch isn't important. I think that the switch type is probably the most important thing to consider. I mean, I think that the switch type is basically the first thing to decide upon, and then the shopping can begin after that.









Anyway, I think that you basically made an excellent decision to go with the ABS M1. From what I can tell, it seems to be exactly the same as a Filco Majestouch, but with different switches. Speaking of which: is the ABS M1 fairly heavy? I mean, does it feel like it's incredibly solid? I'm actually kind of curious now!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skirr* 
I also saw that they have drastically increased their prices since this thread was first made, and dropped a 10 year warranty down to 1 year which put me off a little.

I blame the economy.


----------



## lmnop

sculpted layouts have a null advantage over a flat layout. they act as a guide for your fingers like the nubs or nibs on your F and J keys. is the Deck Legend a typing keyboard? no. one could argue having a flat layout has an advantage because your fingers are not constantly climbing and dropping. lots of keyboards have flat layouts.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Sculpted vs flat is really just about preference. Just like picking a switch type.


----------



## W4LNUT5

I wasn't overly concerned about the deck having flat keys when I bought it. It's going to take time to get adjusted one way or another.


----------



## lmnop

Paulie Walnuts.

has anyone looked at the iOne Xarmor U9BL User Manual?

Quote:

Plug your keyboard into the PS/2 port of your computer.
- Please note that there are 2 USB cables (one has a PS/2 adapter
attached to it is for keyboard functionality and the other USB cable is
to power the LED backlighting)
4 cables! microphone & headphone extension, backlighting and keyboard.

Christine


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 







Paulie Walnuts.

I was given the nickname by my italian boss the last place I worked at. A few of my friends worked under me there, and the name just kinda stuck with me. lol

I had no idea what they were talking about until I finally sat down and watched the Sopranos. He's an interesting character to say the least. lol

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
has anyone looked at the iOne Xarmor U9BL User Manual?

4 cables! microphone & headphone extension, backlighting and keyboard.

Christine

Too many for my taste


----------



## Manyak

So the microphone and headphone cables are just extension cords, not a built-in cheap-o USB sound card? Beautiful


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
That is kinda weird. Oh well.










Them good ramen.

this picture is such a cliche, the only thing missing in the picture is a bottle of ketchup.

finally a keyboard that highlights more dirt than a Das









some poor guy at geekhack (9600 baud warning) went through the trouble of transplanting one of his Filco 87 models with double shot keycaps, the contrast of those keycaps are so high you would think you have the power of jesus on your side, but they look nice and I bet feel even nicer.

Christine


----------



## skcheng

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
this picture is such a cliche, the only thing missing in the picture is a bottle of ketchup.

finally a keyboard that highlights more dirt than a Das









some poor guy at geekhack (9600 baud warning) went through the trouble of transplanting one of his Filco 87 models with double shot keycaps, the contrast of those keycaps are so high you would think you have the power of jesus on your side, but they look nice and I bet feel even nicer.

Christine


Hey, that poor guy was me. I replaced a faulty cherry blue switch, completely cleaned the board and swapped in the DS keys. They are MUCH nicer than the standard thin Filco caps. Wasn't an easy swap, but it was fun and stress relieving. Minus the DS keys, my total cost on that board was $55 shipped.

















Thanks to Manyak here, I've turned into an keyboard-aholic. Just picked up an IBM Model M Space Saving BS keyboard today and I'm happily cleaning the thing inside out. Another GREAT keyboard.

Next up......a Realforce and hopefully a Guru-Board when/if it's available.

skc


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skcheng* 
Hey, that poor guy was me. I replaced a faulty cherry blue switch, completely cleaned the board and swapped in the DS keys. They are MUCH nicer than the standard thin Filco caps. Wasn't an easy swap, but it was fun and stress relieving. Minus the DS keys, my total cost on that board was $55 shipped.
















What made the swap difficult (or, just not easy)?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skcheng* 
Thanks to Manyak here, I've turned into an keyboard-aholic. Just picked up an IBM Model M Space Saving BS keyboard today and I'm happily cleaning the thing inside out. Another GREAT keyboard.

Next up......a Realforce and hopefully a Guru-Board when/if it's available.

skc

Oh, do you mean the Unicomp SpaceSaver 104? I am actually considering getting that board just for kicks.


----------



## skcheng

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
What made the swap difficult (or, just not easy)?

Oh, do you mean the Unicomp SpaceSaver 104? I am actually considering getting that board just for kicks.

Check out that thread that Christine linked. Ripster started the "anti-Otaku" thread and I just sort of added to it. Took 2 keyboards to complete the swap and I'm still stuck with the Filco spacebar until I have time to modify a Cherry spacebar. And I moved the stem on the Caps Lock in order to use it on the Filco. Kinda nutty.......

I meant the vintage IBM Model M Space Saving (aka Mini) keyboard. Here is a picture of a few of these keyboards:


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skcheng* 
Check out that thread that Christine linked. Ripster started the "anti-Otaku" thread and I just sort of added to it. Took 2 keyboards to complete the swap and I'm still stuck with the Filco spacebar until I have time to modify a Cherry spacebar. And I moved the stem on the Caps Lock in order to use it on the Filco. Kinda nutty.......

Oh wow. That sounds like a bunch of work.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *skcheng* 
I meant the vintage IBM Model M Space Saving (aka Mini) keyboard. Here is a picture of a few of these keyboards:










Oh, nice! And here I thought that tenkeyless boards were a bit of a new thing.


----------



## Skirr

I didn't notice there was a similar thread with some of my questions below. Thanks for the link. Brand new to the forums and they are quite large and daunting to get into.

Twocables I've already actually been trying to type "gently" and not bottom out the keys, but to do it I have to type so slowly it drives me absolutely insane. I type at around 90 WPM, its really hard to retrain myself now. I wonder if I did master not bottoming out the keys if my speed would improve well beyond that. The loudness of bottoming out the keys doesn't really bother me, just annoys my wife when she is around my office. Just makes me wonder if I should train myself to not do it. My daughter came up to me yesterday and said "dad stop tapping and look at my drawing." It made me laugh.

The ABS M1 seems to be a great starter mechanical keyboard for someone that does not want to ebay an old model. I picked it up for sale on Newegg for around 45 dollars. It defiantly has some weight to it, it does not feel cheap that is for sure. I guess I'll have to side by side it with a Filco or a Deck Legend if I get one.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skirr* 
I didn't notice there was a similar thread with some of my questions below. Thanks for the link. Brand new to the forums and they are quite large and daunting to get into.

Twocables I've already actually been trying to type "gently" and not bottom out the keys, but to do it I have to type so slowly it drives me absolutely insane.

Same here, but I am finding out that the effort is absolutely worth it. Plus, I also think of it as savoring every single keystroke. After all, I upgraded from the Lycosa.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skirr* 
I type at around 90 WPM, its really hard to retrain myself now.

I type at around 80-85 WPM. I got my Majestouch Tactile Click on Tuesday, March 9th, and I'm just now beginning to fully see the result of my effort in trying to avoid bottoming out. For the first time ever today, I stopped in the middle of typing and started to get really worried because the switches were feeling very different to me. But it wasn't the switches: it was me! I was finally experiencing exactly what it feels like to type at nearly full speed while pressing the keys so gently that I'm hardly causing them to go any lower than the actuation point. It's like I'm almost to the point where I can go back to 80-85 WPM and just naturally type so gently that I basically just glide on the surface while hardly pressing the keys at all, but yet still actuating them.

The feeling is nearly impossible to describe, but the feeling is amazing. It almost felt to me like the tactile feedback went away; but it didn't. It's just that all that practice is really paying off big time. It's as if the switches are doing about 50% of the work for me (at least when I'm doing it right).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skirr* 
I wonder if I did master not bottoming out the keys if my speed would improve well beyond that.

Now that I've experienced what it's like to be 100% "perfect" a few times today (where I have moments where every keystroke is consistent), I can tell you right now that I think it'll be easy to exceed that because you'll be totally relaxed: you won't be pressing as hard. I've already had a few moments today where I could clearly see the potential for me exceeding 85 WPM without any problem, and I think 85 WPM is about as fast as I can go.

I'll compare it to drumming: the worlds fastest drummers are also the world's most _relaxed_ drummers. They use hand and foot techniques where the sticks and pedals basically do about 50% of the work because they're so relaxed.

Or, I can say this: I'm realizing that it's perfectly ok to let the switches do a lot of the work. All I have to do is press them just far enough down to the point of actuation and then move on to the next key. This technique fully reveals the wonderful springy feel of the mechanical switches and perhaps exactly why they're so much better. After all, I would never be able to type like this on my old Lycosa (or any rubber dome keyboard for that matter).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skirr* 
The loudness of bottoming out the keys doesn't really bother me, just annoys my wife when she is around my office. Just makes me wonder if I should train myself to not do it. My daughter came up to me yesterday and said "dad stop tapping and look at my drawing." It made me laugh.

Not only should you do it for the quieter typing, but I realized today that it should be something to strive for because it seems to fully reveal the true benefit of these mechanical keyboards. I mean, when I'm doing it right, the feeling is incredible and it makes me love my keyboard even more. Not only that, but it becomes much easier to type. Not only *that*, but all I end up hearing is the click of the switches, and that click is much quieter than keycaps bottoming out against the body of the keyboard.

I admit though that I don't think I would have reached this point today had I not been practicing every day in Notepad. I would literally open Notepad every day and just jam. I say "jam" because I'm finding it to be quite fun to type on this keyboard - especially today now that it's becoming more and more difficult to bottom out. But I would make sure to be as careful as possible to not bottom out. It almost always means that I have to type slowly.

Oooo wait a sec: that's how I should word it: try to work towards being so used to not bottoming out that it becomes difficult to type any other way. By doing this, you'll end up going back up to 90 WPM without bottoming out. So this is one reason why it's so necessary to practice slowly - and yeah, it must be done at a painfully slow speed. I can see now that there is no shortcut. I mean, I can see that any attempts at taking a shortcut will result in frustration and disappointment.

In other words: the context or rules have to gradually be changed by changing the habit. Make it so that when you try to press any key, you only press it hard enough just to actuate it. Make it so that it feels totally wrong to bottom out any key.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skirr* 
The ABS M1 seems to be a great starter mechanical keyboard for someone that does not want to ebay an old model. I picked it up for sale on Newegg for around 45 dollars. It defiantly has some weight to it, it does not feel cheap that is for sure. I guess I'll have to side by side it with a Filco or a Deck Legend if I get one.

You're right: I'd love to hear from somebody who has both the latest ABS M1 and a Filco Majestouch. That would be really neat since they both seem to be so very similar.

But anyway, yeah: I think the goal should be that it needs to become difficult or impossible to bottom out. I mean, when I try to type the way that I used to on my Lycosa, I end up feeling really rigid and quite limited as opposed to feeling fluid and really well-oiled.

Thanks to today's experiences on my Majestouch, I really do have a new love for this board.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skcheng* 
Hey, that poor guy was me. I replaced a faulty cherry blue switch, completely cleaned the board and swapped in the DS keys. They are MUCH nicer than the standard thin Filco caps. Wasn't an easy swap, but it was fun and stress relieving. Minus the DS keys, my total cost on that board was $55 shipped.
















Thanks to Manyak here, I've turned into an keyboard-aholic. Just picked up an IBM Model M Space Saving BS keyboard today and I'm happily cleaning the thing inside out. Another GREAT keyboard.

Next up......a Realforce and hopefully a Guru-Board when/if it's available.

skc

I have a sadistic sense of humor. you did a great job









Christine


----------



## skcheng

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I have a sadistic sense of humor. you did a great job









Christine


I gathered your sense of humor from lurking on this thread for the past month. You know your stuff.....

You still using the Das keyboard?? I might pick one of those up just for the media key functions. People seem to compare Das with Filco based on the use of Cherry switches, but I'm sure both are very nice. And from what I've read the newer Das boards don't suffer from transposition errors.

And I can do the same DS key swap on the Das.......I think??

skc


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skcheng* 
I gathered your sense of humor from lurking on this thread for the past month. You know your stuff.....

You still using the Das keyboard?? I might pick one of those up just for the media key functions. People seem to compare Das with Filco based on the use of Cherry switches, but I'm sure both are very nice. And from what I've read the newer Das boards don't suffer from transposition errors.

*And I can do the same DS key swap on the Das.......I think??*

skc

I smell a interesting keyboard mod thread


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skcheng* 
I gathered your sense of humor from lurking on this thread for the past month. You know your stuff.....

You still using the Das keyboard?? I might pick one of those up just for the media key functions. People seem to compare Das with Filco based on the use of Cherry switches, but I'm sure both are very nice. And from what I've read the newer Das boards don't suffer from transposition errors.

And I can do the same DS key swap on the Das.......I think??

skc

I have the original Das Ultimate Professional, the keycaps are thicker than Filco but also pad printed (mine are blanks), controller has a transposition problem and there are no media keys. the new Das Model S has laser etched printing, new controller and comes with either media keys or without.

not sure.

Christine


----------



## IBuyJunk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skcheng* 
Check out that thread that Christine linked. Ripster started the "anti-Otaku" thread and I just sort of added to it. Took 2 keyboards to complete the swap and I'm still stuck with the Filco spacebar until I have time to modify a Cherry spacebar. And I moved the stem on the Caps Lock in order to use it on the Filco. Kinda nutty.......

I meant the vintage IBM Model M Space Saving (aka Mini) keyboard. Here is a picture of a few of these keyboards:










You have that many!?!!?!?!?!? I'd kill for just one


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IBuyJunk* 
You have that many!?!!?!?!?!? I'd kill for just one

there is one on eBay for $150 but I think that is a bit steep, they usually sell for under $100.

Christine


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
You're right: I'd love to hear from somebody who has both the latest ABS M1 and a Filco Majestouch. That would be really neat since they both seem to be so very similar.

I've had both (and a few other boards) you can see what I said about them

http://www.overclock.net/8601572-post1870.html
http://www.overclock.net/8810007-post2427.html


----------



## Phaedrus2129

So I'm bidding on a Compaq MX11800. I've heard $20-30 shipped as a decent price, you agree?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
So I'm bidding on a Compaq MX11800. I've heard $20-30 shipped as a decent price, you agree?

yes. I love Compaq keycaps.

Christine


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
So I'm bidding on a Compaq MX11800. I've heard $20-30 shipped as a decent price, you agree?

I'd say go for it. Price sounds great.

Though, apparently the spacebar uses a Cherry Grey switch. Never heard of them before. But it's what I hear on Geekhack


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Are the Compaq keycaps double shot or something? Or dyesub, laser, pad print, infused with evil dark magic, etc?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I'd say go for it. Price sounds great.

Though, apparently the spacebar uses a Cherry Grey switch. Never heard of them before. But it's what I hear on Geekhack











I think the Cherry MX Grey switch in the Spacebar is tactile, non-clicky 80g.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Are the Compaq keycaps double shot or something? Or dyesub, laser, pad print, infused with evil dark magic, etc?



















the keycaps are made out of PBT and the print is laser etched. it's one of the nicer looking set of laser etched keycaps.

Christine


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Cool. Plus they're sculpted? Nice.

I think if I win this it will be my daily driver; and I'll sell the G84-4100 on here for the price I paid. Assuming I like it, of course. And that I win it for <$30.


----------



## lmnop

I think the keycaps have a sandpaper like texture that is very non-slip but once it wears down the sandpaper becomes softer, like cottonelle but still non-slip and since the Compaq MX11800 you're bidding on is probably used this is the condition you should expect them to come in. Topre, Cherry and Unicomp use PBT keycaps. I read that bottoming out on the Compaq MX11800 is soft and this is probably due to the thickness of the keycaps and lack of steel plate.

it should be a good keyboard to type on









Christine


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Um...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Me*
I understand that you don't have a computer with the correct PS/2 ports, but could you find one and test for my ease of mind? Any desktop computer more than a year old will definitely have these ports. Or use a PS/2->USB converter.

Just confirm that all keys register and that the trackball tracks.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *seller*
i don't have another computer or converter. the
item look in great condition. all keys travel
fine. i got it from a person that was moving to
another state and he said it was working but like
i said... i don't have a way to test so it's sold
as is. you probably no more about this item than
me.


----------



## W4LNUT5

eh. if its cheap its still worth a go. its not like it would be totally unfixable. but it still depends on $$


----------



## Manyak

I got an NIB Compaq for my girlfriend, I forget for how much, but the texture of the keys is awesome. Even after being worn they still stick to your fingertips nicely.


----------



## skcheng

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IBuyJunk* 
You have that many!?!!?!?!?!? I'd kill for just one

Those don't belong to me. They belong to Ripster who is one of the resident experts over on Geekhack.

I dig the grey one. Really cool. And he has another with the screw down, rivet replace mod and blank keys.

I just picked up a "used" on locally and it's NICE!!


----------



## skcheng

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I think the keycaps have a sandpaper like texture that is very non-slip but once it wears down the sandpaper becomes softer, like cottonelle but still non-slip and since the Compaq MX11800 you're bidding on is probably used this is the condition you should expect them to come in. Topre, Cherry and Unicomp use PBT keycaps. I read that bottoming out on the Compaq MX11800 is soft and this is probably due to the thickness of the keycaps and lack of steel plate.

it should be a good keyboard to type on









Christine



If only it didn't say Compaq


----------



## skcheng

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


there is one on eBay for $150 but I think that is a bit steep, they usually sell for under $100.

Christine



The last few NIB units have sold for big dollars. I don't know?? If I was spending $200+, I'd probably rather have a Realforce 87U 55g model kb.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *skcheng*


The last few NIB units have sold for big dollars. I don't know?? If I was spending $200+, I'd probably rather have a Realforce 87U 55g model kb.


really they sell for $200? that is alot then again, I was willing to pay $300 for a Cherry MX-5000









Christine


----------



## v193r

Father, I have sinned. Today I looked at a Razer Lycosa and seriously considered buying it for the non-slip rubber finish keys and the quick response buttons.Lately I'm not pleased with my ABS M1 tactile feel.

How many hail Cherries?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
Father, I have sinned. Today I looked at a Razer Lycosa and seriously considered buying it for the non-slip rubber finish keys and the quick response buttons.Lately I'm not pleased with my ABS M1 tactile feel.

How many hail Cherries?

this is your solution.










Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skcheng* 
I gathered your sense of humor from lurking on this thread for the past month. You know your stuff.....

You still using the Das keyboard?? I might pick one of those up just for the media key functions. People seem to compare Das with Filco based on the use of Cherry switches, but I'm sure both are very nice. And from what I've read the newer Das boards don't suffer from transposition errors.

And I can do the same DS key swap on the Das.......I think??

skc

During my time here in this thread, I have only heard that the Das III (the one that is *not* the Model S) is the one with the transposition problems and the Model S series (Professional, Ultimate, and Professional Silent) is not.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I've had both (and a few other boards) you can see what I said about them

http://www.overclock.net/8601572-post1870.html
http://www.overclock.net/8810007-post2427.html

Whoa. Thank you!! Can you also compare the build quality of the two?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
Father, I have sinned. Today I looked at a Razer Lycosa and seriously considered buying it for the non-slip rubber finish keys and the quick response buttons.Lately I'm not pleased with my ABS M1 tactile feel.

How many hail Cherries?

lol @ "hail Cherries". Nice.

What has made you become displeased with the ABS M1? I mean, in what way were you using it that made you become displeased with the tactile feel and the response?

Could it because you're just not used to it yet? I've had the Majestouch Tactile Click since Tuesday, March 9th and I think I'm just now beginning to be at a point where I'm used to it enough that when I'm typing, I can focus more on what I'm typing as opposed to trying to simultaneously focus on not bottoming out while typing. I'm not 100% there yet, but that's because I'm slower than most people at such things.

So, I guess I'm curious about one thing because I totally forgot: how long have you had the ABS M1?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Whoa. Thank you!! Can you also compare the build quality of the two?


I've smacked someone upside the head with my M1 and it did not show any damage. Nor did it loose any functionality.

But seriously, they're both about the same. They both have about the same build quality, they've got weight behind them. ANd they feel solid.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I've smacked someone upside the head with my M1 and it did not show any damage. Nor did it loose any functionality.


lol

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


But seriously, they're both about the same. They both have about the same build quality, they've got weight behind them. ANd they feel solid.


Thank you. I think this totally confirms it for me that these boards are almost perfectly identical with a few of the obvious exceptions.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


lol

Thank you. I think this totally confirms it for me that these boards are almost perfectly identical with a few of the obvious exceptions.


Logic boards and circuits are most likely different.

If I get the money, when I go to switch my M1 over to Yellow Alps switches, I'll do a pictorial of them side by side, insides and such.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Logic boards and circuits are most likely different.

If I get the money, when I go to switch my M1 over to Yellow Alps switches, I'll do a pictorial of them side by side, insides and such.


Oh that'll be fun to watch!


----------



## lmnop

my first day at geekhack I threatened to bash webwit over the head with my keyboard and he went into this scientific diatribe about impact resistance and how my keyboard wouldn't survive then I was welcomed and told I would fit right in









Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


Father, I have sinned. Today I looked at a Razer Lycosa and seriously considered buying it for the non-slip rubber finish keys and the quick response buttons.Lately I'm not pleased with my ABS M1 tactile feel.

How many hail Cherries?


If you don't like mechanical boards then you just don't like them. Though I would recommend at least trying a used one with different switches before giving up.

Can you be a little specific on how you'd change it though? Do you want it stiffer or lighter? Do you want the bump more or less obtrusive? Do you want the bump to be more or less precise? Do you want more texture on the keycaps? Basically just point out every single change you'd make and we can narrow it down to another board for you.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The seller canceled the auction?









I am disappoint.


----------



## rfjunkie

Its been a while since i have posted in this thread... Figured I would drop in and say something....

Not sure what to say... So I will show a picture of my Filco 10 Keyless that I picked up last fall that I have been using everyday on my "Daily Driver" rig... Seems to be holding up fairly well for one of the B-Stock ones that Elite Keyboards was selling last fall... I'm still thinking about getting one with the Blue switches. You can see that the keys are starting to get a little shiny. Especially the space bar on the right side.

I do know I sometimes wish the tactile feel on this board was a little lighter and less clicky. If anyone thinks blues are loud, you ought to hear this keyboard.

@ Manyak... If you notice the 10 key on the left, Its the one that you suggested for a mechanical 10 key without that stupid "00" key.... I like it so far... The browns that are in it are way lighter than the ones in the B-stock Filco... I cannot remember what keys this Filco has... Do you recall if its XM whites or ***as???

I guess thats enough rambling for now. I think I'm good for another month.


----------



## Manyak

The B-stock were XM switches, the brand new ones were ***kas. And yeah, they are crazy loud lol.

And little lighter + less clicky sounds like you want blues. Another option if you want to try something cheap is a Chicony KB-5181. It can come with ether round white sliders or square blue ones - you want the blue ones. They are SMK Monterey switches, and have a very nice feel to them.


----------



## rfjunkie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


The B-stock were XM switches, the brand new ones were ***kas. And yeah, they are crazy loud lol.

And little lighter + less clicky sounds like you want blues. Another option if you want to try something cheap is a Chicony KB-5181. It can come with ether round white sliders or square blue ones - you want the blue ones. They are SMK Monterey switches, and have a very nice feel to them.


I think I will end up spending the money on a Filco with blues sooner or later... I really like having my 10 key on the left like i have my set up right now.... I've been thinking about picking up another one of these Kinesis keypads for my work machine. I really get tired of reaching across to use the 10 key at work.... I'm so used to using it on the left side now.


----------



## nijikon5

Looks like I won't be getting the White Otaku Tactile Click :[. Picking up a 5850 from another OCN member tonight.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Looks like I won't be getting the White Otaku Tactile Click :[. Picking up a 5850 from another OCN member tonight.


I hope you bought the 5850 so that you can take advantage of DX11 because the GTX 260 and the 5850 probably aren't that different in their performance.

I'm trying to say that you would be way happier with the keyboard.


----------



## -=R00bin=-

Whatever happened to the Gigabyte K8000?

ps. I just bought a Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *-=R00bin=-* 
Whatever happened to the Gigabyte K8000?

it was discontinued at launch, Gigabyte wasn't happy with the OEM.

Christine


----------



## Skylit

Manyak, I can confirm that the ABS M1 has a weird KRO system. Around the WSAD area it seems to be a standard 4KRO+ spacebar , but near the JKL area it gets dumb'd down to 2KRO :|

Other then that, the keyboard is pretty nice for the money. I was more impressed with the material quality over anything lol.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skylit* 
Manyak, I can confirm that the ABS M1 has a weird KRO system. Around the WSAD area it seems to be a standard 4KRO+ spacebar , but near the JKL area it gets dumb'd down to 2KRO :|

Other then that, the keyboard is pretty nice for the money. I was more impressed with the quality then anything lol.

everything that can go wrong with a mechanical keyboard has with the ABS M1. it was a little more attractive when it was $25 for 3 months at newegg 2 years ago.

Christine


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
everything that can go wrong with a mechanical keyboard has with the ABS M1. it was a little more attractive when it was $25 for 3 months at newegg 2 years ago.

Christine

It doesn't advertise NKRO though. It's nothing wrong with it. It's just not as fancy as some of the more expensive boards.

Being $45-50 Shipped is a good price on it. You can't really add in E-Bay items to that judgement though. As they're not always available. Though, when they are, they should be suggested as alternatives.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *-=R00bin=-* 
Whatever happened to the Gigabyte K8000?

ps. I just bought a Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO









I asked them about it, and they would not say much. They tried to bring out another one, but it turned out to be rubber dome with aswd rollover and die.

I tried to get them to even sell me one, for testing, but no one had one in Taiwan to be found. and they would not sell the display at Computex. It was big though.

I will be going to Computex again this June. I'll ask them again.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
everything that can go wrong with a mechanical keyboard has with the ABS M1. it was a little more attractive when it was $25 for 3 months at newegg 2 years ago.

Christine


I know it's not the best keyboard around, but for starters its not bad at all. The build quality of this board rivals my cousins filco. I do understand that it uses fake keys and crap, but it should last me till the 3 year warranty runs out.

I'll be happy to look into a actual Das or filco afterwards.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skylit*


I know it's not the best keyboard around, but for starters its not bad at all. The build quality of this board rivals my cousins filco. I do understand that it uses fake keys and crap, but it should last me till the 3 year warranty runs out.

I'll be happy to look into a actual Das or filco afterwards.


but the build quality is the problem. I don't have a problem with the switches but that is the only thing not wrong with it lol

Christine


----------



## Ktulu

I just bid on a lot of DELL AT101W on Ebay. I discovered that the one I thought I had in my closet got thrown away. This works out OK though because I won't have to clean one and buying them in bulk will give me a chance to finally get my mom a decent keyboard, plus a spare or two for future builds.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


but the build quality is the problem. I don't have a problem with the switches but that is the only thing not wrong with it lol

Christine


I mean build quality as in the materials they used, not the KRO problems(sorry I don't know what I was thinking LOL) They don't even advertise KRO on their site. What else is wrong with the keyboard? I thought a majority of the problems were fixed.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skylit*


I mean build quality as in the materials they used, not the KRO problems. They don't even advertise KRO on their site. What else is wrong with the keyboard? I thought a majority of the problems were fixed.


to my knowledge ABS has only made 3 changes.

fix modifier issue
stop advertising 6 key rollover
change XM to ***kas
forget the retail price the ABS M1 has to many shortcomings. did people forget about the Costar greasing? false advertising, XM to ***kas, bright led, short cable, compatibility with PS/2, rollover, controller issue(s), pad printed keycaps. I wish we lived in Asia because, at that price point you can buy a Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-2 which is not only a tank but a poor man's topre.

I have checked eBay on a regular basis the last 2 years and the IBM Model M and Dell AT101W are in heavy circulation. the IBM Model M is a good choice for a starter keyboard, it's over 25 years old which is probably older than alot of forum members and still works great.

Christine


----------



## Skylit

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


to my knowledge ABS has only made 3 changes.

fix modifier issue at launch
stop advertising 6 key rollover
change XM to ***kas
forget the retail price the ABS M1 has to many shortcomings. did people forget about the Costar greasing? false advertising, XM to ***kas, bright led, short cable, compatibility with PS/2, rollover, controller issue(s), pad printed keycaps. I wish we lived in Asia because, at that price point you can buy a Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-2 which is not only a tank but a poor man's topre.

Christine


I see! Well like I said, it's a nice little starter mechanical keyboard and I really seem to like it. I know I could of done better for what I spent on the keyboard but I wanted to have something brand new and nice looking, rather then some old DELL, Compaq, or IBM









The only problem I have with the keyboard so far is that it fails to accept the 2nd "L" in "lol" if I type extremely fast.

If anything really bad happens, I'm sure ABS will honor their warranty. So in the end, it's all good in my book.

+ rep for your knowledge!


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skylit* 
I see! Well like I said, it's a nice little starter mechanical keyboard and I really seem to like it. I know I could of done better for what I spent on the keyboard but I wanted to have something brand new and nice looking, rather then some old DELL, Compaq, or IBM









The only problem I have with the keyboard so far is that it fails to accept the 2nd "L" in "lol" if I type extremely fast.

If anything really bad happens, I'm sure ABS will honor their warranty. So in the end, it's all good in my book.

+ rep for your knowledge!

i'm sure the ABS M1 is durable and will last but isn't quality what we always advertise in countless "recommend me a keyboard" threads. it's just my opinion and how I feel about it. I buy mechanical keyboards, not just for the properties of a mechanical switch but quality.

correction, I think it's presumed they fixed the modifier problem when they changed to ***ka switches not at launch however Matias Tactile Pro 2.0 and I think the steelseries 7G also had this problem at launch.

Christine


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
i'm sure the ABS M1 is durable and will last but isn't quality what we always advertise in countless "recommend me a keyboard" threads. it's just my opinion and how I feel about it. I buy mechanical keyboards, not just for the properties of a mechanical switch but quality.

Christine

Yeah, I know you're just trying to help and I thank you for pointing the little problems ahead of time (If anything does happen).

Like I said, I'm new to mechanical keyboards and I just wanted something brand new with a warranty at a reasonable price. I know I could of invested a little bit more and got a nicer one, but I wasn't sure if I would like it or not since I've used basic microsoft rubber dome keyboards for a majority of my life.

With that said, I'll probably move on to a Filco or Das with Cherry MX blues in around a year or two


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skylit* 
Yeah, I know you're just trying to help and I thank you for pointing the little problems ahead of time (If anything does happen).

Like I said, I'm new to mechanical keyboards and I just wanted something brand new with a warranty at a reasonable price. I know I could of invested a little bit more and got a nicer one, but I wasn't sure if I would like it or not since I've used basic microsoft rubber dome keyboards for a majority of my life.

With that said, I'll probably move on to a Filco or Das with Cherry MX blues in around a year or two









You'll be happy with the M1. No worries


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
You'll be happy with the M1. No worries

I know







, I was just pointing out the rollover problem here

It doesn't really effect me, but manyak still has the ABS M1 listed as 6KRO. No worries though, I knew about the problem before purchasing the keyboard, I'm just confirming


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skylit* 
I know







, I was just pointing out the rollover problem here

It doesn't really effect me, but manyak still has the ABS M1 listed as 6KRO. No worries though, I knew about the problem before purchasing the keyboard, I'm just confirming



















One of these days I'll update that guide. I just need to get my domain working again first, so I can get off of this stupid P1-120Mhz.


----------



## Otterclock

I would love to get my hands on both a Dr. Louis G-Power and a G80-3494LYCUS-2. Booking flight to Taiwan..


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
lol @ "hail Cherries". Nice.

What has made you become displeased with the ABS M1? I mean, in what way were you using it that made you become displeased with the tactile feel and the response?

Could it because you're just not used to it yet? I've had the Majestouch Tactile Click since Tuesday, March 9th and I think I'm just now beginning to be at a point where I'm used to it enough that when I'm typing, I can focus more on what I'm typing as opposed to trying to simultaneously focus on not bottoming out while typing. I'm not 100% there yet, but that's because I'm slower than most people at such things.

So, I guess I'm curious about one thing because I totally forgot: how long have you had the ABS M1?

About half a year. I just noticed that I get a faster response on my laptop keys then my M1. And that effects my gaming just a tiny bit but enough for me to notice. The extra force kinda gets annoying if your away from typing for a while. I love the feel, if only it wasn't so much force.

@Manyak I'm not even close to giving up on mech keyboards just the ABS M1 is getting to me. I need something fast response like low force.
I'm waiting on the 6Gv2.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Otterclock* 
I would love to get my hands on both a Dr. Louis G-Power and a G80-3494LYCUS-2. Booking flight to Taiwan..

I have tried looking for them here and only find them on-line, but....

If you want one that bad and willing to pay shipping, I can buy one and mail it to you. My price is 1 Dr. Pepper = $35Nt


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 









One of these days I'll update that guide. I just need to get my domain working again first, so I can get off of this stupid P1-120Mhz.

I have nothing but time on my hands 24/7, so if there's absolutely any way that I can help, then please tell me. I can send any work I do to you via a private message so that all you have to do is copy/paste it.

I realize that there are many things I won't be able to do due to my lack of knowledge, but I want to do whatever I can.


----------



## rfjunkie

I've been watching this keyboard on E-Bay and it was just re-listed.... Manyak, do you think its worth bidding on? Cherry Brown MX Clicky Keyboard Mechanical Programmable


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Otterclock* 
I would love to get my hands on both a Dr. Louis G-Power and a G80-3494LYCUS-2. Booking flight to Taiwan..

another nice Cherry model is the Cherry G80-3484HKCUS-2 abs casing, abs keycaps that are double shot, full rollover and cherry mx brown switches that are plate mounted.

talk to Kip69.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rfjunkie* 
I've been watching this keyboard on E-Bay and it was just re-listed.... Manyak, do you think its worth bidding on? Cherry Brown MX Clicky Keyboard Mechanical Programmable

I can't tell you anything about it without knowing the model number at least, but it should be pretty good. Those card swiper things are pretty neat too, you can use a credit card or gift card or whatever as your password


----------



## rfjunkie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
I can't tell you anything about it without knowing the model number at least, but it should be pretty good. Those card swiper things are pretty neat too, you can use a credit card or gift card or whatever as your password









Using a card like that for passwords would be cool.... Never have to type them in again.... Plus I bet the password would be a really strong password.... Take and use my library card or something... Maybe a hotel room key.

EDIT--- The guy that is selling that keyboard has a couple others for sale too. Including a few old Dell ones.


----------



## Ktulu

I just ordered 2 Dell AT101Ws with the black ALPS switches SWEET! Do they have NKRO?


----------



## lmnop

here is a question Manyak, is elitekeyboards affiliated with Diatec or is elitekeyboards just a reseller.

warning: Diatec may find these pictures offensive. viewers discretion is advised.

Cherry G80-3484HKCUS-2









































































Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


here is a question Manyak, is elitekeyboards affiliated with Diatec or is elitekeyboards just a reseller.

warning: Diatec may find these pictures offensive. viewers discretion is advised.

Cherry G80-3484HKCUS-2

Christine


Oh man, I want one of those NOW!!!









Elitekeyboards is actually a distributor. Brian gets the keyboards straight from Diatec, and has the right to sell to retail stores if he chooses to. The agreement also says that he is the sole distributor in the US, though I don't know if it'll be for a set amount of time or indefinitely.


----------



## lmnop

don't get to excited they cost 1200 yuan ($175 USD) + at least $50 shipping.

Christine


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ktulu* 
I just ordered 2 Dell AT101Ws with the black ALPS switches SWEET! Do they have NKRO?

No.


----------



## Ktulu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *timw4mail*


No.


Thanks for the info.


----------



## Otterclock

Quote:



Oh man, I want one of those NOW!!!


Seconded. That looks nearly perfect. Thanks for the info, Christine. Kip, I may indeed solicit your import/export services. Sadly, maybe not on that particular board since after all is done it winds up being as much as a Realforce.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Otterclock*


Seconded. That looks nearly perfect. Thanks for the info, Christine. Kip, I may indeed solicit your import/export services. Sadly, maybe not on that particular board since after all is done it winds up being as much as a Realforce.










I got the currency wrong on the keyboards because the .tw Taiwan site currency was Yuan not TwD. my apologies.









Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-2 with Cherry MX Red switches is $135. the more I read about it the more I want one. I bet people would bid to the death for it on eBay.

Christine


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I got the currency wrong on the keyboards because the .tw Taiwan site currency was Yuan not TwD. my apologies.









Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-2 with Cherry MX Red switches is $135. the more I read about it the more I want one. I bet people would bid to the death for it on eBay.

Christine


I love you and hate you for posting about that KB. Looks so beautiful, I would love to have one of those with Brown or Red switches. Dammit, was saving up for a SSD setup :[.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
I love you and hate you for posting about that KB. Looks so beautiful, I would love to have one of those with Brown or Red switches. Dammit, was saving up for a SSD setup :[.

if your interested in the keycaps you can buy a Cherry G80 set of POM Blanks for $29 USD at inpad.com.tw but not all will be compatible with Filco. there is a TG3 82 model on eBay for $49 I think and one that sold for $36 a couple weeks ago they have PBT Double Shot & Sublimated keycaps that are compatible with Cherry G80 which means they are compatible with Filco. I mention this because of your interest in keycaps on geekhack.

again I apologize.

I still think the Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-2 is worth it. with shipping the price is between a Deck Legend and a Topre. you can probably count on your fingers how many people in America have Cherry MX Red switches so it's a bit of a collectors item. I think the Cherry MX Red switches would be great for typing and gaming, poor man's Topre's plus the POM keycaps which are rare.

Christine


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


if your interested in the keycaps you can buy a Cherry G80 set of POM Blanks for $29 USD at inpad.com.tw but not all will be compatible with Filco. there is a TG3 82 model on eBay for $49 I think and one that sold for $36 a couple weeks ago they have PBT Double Shot & Sublimated keycaps that are compatible with Cherry G80 which means they are compatible with Filco. I mention this because of your interest in keycaps on geekhack.

again I apologize.

I still think the Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-2 is worth it. with shipping the price is between a Deck Legend and a Topre. you can probably count on your fingers how many people in America have Cherry MX Red switches so it's a bit of a collectors item. I think the Cherry MX Red switches would be great for typing and gaming, poor man's Topre's plus the POM keycaps which are rare.

Christine


Yeah, thanks for all the help with replacing the Filco stock Key Caps. You've actually linked me to that site on OCN. Do you know if they accept American payments or ship internationally? The site was all in Chinese -.-.

So tempted to buy that Cherry. With NKRO, Reds, Nice Key Caps, good size/layout.

Quick question, do you know how to remove the Backspace, and Shift caps on the Filco? I tried using the Key puller I bought with the WASD keys but they seem to be bound to something.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
Yeah, thanks for all the help with replacing the Filco stock Key Caps. You've actually linked me to that site on OCN. Do you know if they accept American payments or ship internationally? The site was all in Chinese -.-.

So tempted to buy that Cherry. With NKRO, Reds, Nice Key Caps, good size/layout.

Quick question, do you know how to remove the Backspace, and Shift caps on the Filco? I tried using the Key puller I bought with the WASD keys but they seem to be bound to something.

They're bound to the stabilizer bar. After lifting it up enough so that it's loose, tilt the key upward and that'll pry it off.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
Yeah, thanks for all the help with replacing the Filco stock Key Caps. You've actually linked me to that site on OCN. Do you know if they accept American payments or ship internationally? The site was all in Chinese -.-.

So tempted to buy that Cherry. With NKRO, Reds, Nice Key Caps, good size/layout.

Quick question, do you know how to remove the Backspace, and Shift caps on the Filco? I tried using the Key puller I bought with the WASD keys but they seem to be bound to something.

you want to talk to Kip69 to work out the details, he lives in Taiwan and is willing to ship to North America provided you buy him a Dr. Pepper. I strongly advise doing a transaction with someone who lives there that speaks the language like Kip to help you, who knows if some of the online retailers even ship overseas but Kip can.









I did?

it's called a stabilizer bar. the name is self explanatory, it's for larger keycaps.

instructions how to remove larger keys with a stabilizer are here. Manyak might want to copy these into the guide so he doesn't have to keep repeating himself.

Christine


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


They're bound to the stabilizer bar. After lifting it up enough so that it's loose, tilt the key upward and that'll pry it off.


You mean tilt the Key " ^ " in that direction once it's loose? Dammit, I wish there was a vid or pics for this process. I don't want to eff this up :x.


----------



## Manyak

As in, if the keyboard is in front of you as if you were typing on it, tilt the key away from you.


----------



## olli3

Hey this may be beyond this thread but I'll ask anyway...Does anyone know how to show/hide desktop icons in windows using auto hotkey? (only other way I know is right click desktop>view>show desktop icons)

Just thought I'd ask before trawling the web for an answer.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *olli3* 
Hey this may be beyond this thread but I'll ask anyway...Does anyone know how to show/hide desktop icons in windows using auto hotkey? (only other way I know is right click desktop>view>show desktop icons)

Just thought I'd ask before trawling the web for an answer.

http://www.autohotkey.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1










Or http://www.autohotkey.com/forum/?sid...1ce8a2920d121b


----------



## olli3

Cheers twocables, looks like exactly where I need to be!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *olli3* 
Cheers twocables, looks like exactly where I need to be!









You're always welcome!


----------



## olli3

I searched on those forums and found that someone had made a script that does exactly what I wanted. It hides/shows desktop icons when I press Numpad Add (since I never use that key, and its easy to press with mouse hand). Here it is just in case anyone else wanted to try it, I think it will be good for me since I use my desktop as a temporary holding ground for stuff I need to sort but I also hate to have mess









No idea what it means but it works hehe.



Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!



*numpadAdd::

ControlGet, HWND, Hwnd,, SysListView321, ahk_class Progman
If HWND =
ControlGet, HWND, Hwnd,, SysListView321, ahk_class WorkerW
If DllCall("IsWindowVisible", UInt, HWND)
WinHide, ahk_id %HWND%
Else
WinShow, ahk_id %HWND%

Return*


----------



## KipH

I have some news re shipping from Taiwan. I can get them boards, but searching the one you want is harder as they only use the numbers. The letters they translate into Chinese.

Rough estimate for the more expensive one. Board = $4,700Nt. + 1000 shipping (600 or 8~900 depending on if you want insurance) = $175 us









I will keep looking but looks like with shipping its a lot. Here is the weeb I found:
goods.ruten.com.tw

Any takers?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


I have some news re shipping from Taiwan. I can get them boards, but searching the one you want is harder as they only use the numbers. The letters they translate into Chinese.

Rough estimate for the more expensive one. Board = $4,700Nt. + 1000 shipping (600 or 8~900 depending on if you want insurance) = $175 us









I will keep looking but looks like with shipping its a lot. Here is the weeb I found:
goods.ruten.com.tw

Any takers?


G80-3494LYC*RC* that is the Chinese layout, you want the G80-3494LYC*US*. is that $175 USD the final price to ship it to America or to ship it to Taiwan?

I think the Cherry G80-3484HKCUS-2 is only sold in China so don't bother.

can you check these links out, I can't tell if some of them are in stock or not but they are cheaper.

http://inpad.com.tw/goods.php?act=view&no=514
https://www.15fun.com/BookMark/product.php?bpid=199202 (this one might have no in stock but a couple refurbished or unboxed)

and what do you know about taobao it looks similar to eBay. some people are selling them low as 870 yuan ($125 USD) with shipping ranging from free, $10, $20, $50. you might be able to find them cheaper on there if they will ship to Taiwan.

they also have the G80-3600LYCEU-2 which is the one Chao reviewed on geekhack. pretty much same model.

Christine


----------



## zabrak

nice


----------



## KipH

That was $175USD







Thats why I typed $175us. This includes $1000NTD for shipping to USA (estimate) to be on the high side. It will be just a bit less.

I forgot to say about Chinese keys. Most sold in Taiwan will have Chinese. US layout is harder to find but not unpossable. The big problems is the code: LYCRC or LYCUS. The Chinese web pages don't use them in English. I have to get them translated.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
That was $175USD







Thats why I typed $175us. This includes $1000NTD for shipping to USA (estimate) to be on the high side. It will be just a bit less.

I forgot to say about Chinese keys. Most sold in Taiwan will have Chinese. US layout is harder to find but not unpossable. The big problems is the code: LYCRC or LYCUS. The Chinese web pages don't use them in English. I have to get them translated.

I was expecting the entire proposal to cost no less than $200 USD so $175 USD isn't to bad but if you can take it down to $150, $160 would be great. maybe no insurance and find the keyboard a little cheaper?

in the US they have the G80-3000LSCRC-2 it has a US & Chinese layout that your stuck with.

though i'm not fond of a Klingon layout it's not the end of the world.

there is more Cherry US keyboards in Asia than there are in the US so I don't think you will have a problem finding the US layout. Cherry distribution is strange.

Christine


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Cherry distribution is strange.


Fixed.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


G80-3494LYC*RC* that is the Chinese layout, you want the G80-3494LYC*US*. is that $175 USD the final price to ship it to America or to ship it to Taiwan?

I think the Cherry G80-3484HKCUS-2 is only sold in China so don't bother.

can you check these links out, I can't tell if some of them are in stock or not but they are cheaper.

http://inpad.com.tw/goods.php?act=view&no=514
https://www.15fun.com/BookMark/product.php?bpid=199202 (this one might have no in stock but a couple refurbished or unboxed)

and what do you know about taobao it looks similar to eBay. some people are selling them low as 870 yuan ($125 USD) with shipping ranging from free, $10, $20, $50. you might be able to find them cheaper on there if they will ship to Taiwan.

they also have the G80-3600LYCEU-2 which is the one Chao reviewed on geekhack. pretty much same model.

Christine


Is it easier to find these boards in China?

If so, that's going to be great news.

My father is visiting China in April ( under sad circumstances, my grandfather is rather ill ). However, I have cousins that can help me acquire a few keyboards and have my father bring them back. Thinking about picking up the US version of the Reds and Browns is they are available in China. BTW, I know Blues aren't popular in Asia, but do they offer them in Blues?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
Is it easier to find these boards in China?

If so, that's going to be great news.

My father is visiting China in April ( under sad circumstances, my grandfather is rather ill ). However, I have cousins that can help me acquire a few keyboards and have my father bring them back. Thinking about picking up the US version of the Reds and Browns is they are available in China. BTW, I know Blues aren't popular in Asia, but do they offer them in Blues?

probably. but I noticed some keyboards that you can buy in China are cheaper in Taiwan maybe it's the currency or maybe it's because they are locally manufactured? I assume Cherry has a plant in Taiwan somewhere.

it cost $145-150 to ship a Filco in the US and $165 to Canada? so if he can get the Cherry G80-3494LYCUS shipped to the US for $150-160 it's not that bad... especially when you consider how much POM keycaps cost.

a while back I quoted a post from geekhack, it was a price inquiry to some company that makes keycaps and they were pretty expensive.

oh you guys should get a kick out of this.










it says the keycaps are laser etched...

Christine


----------



## Otterclock

The laser etching is the most appealing thing about the wireless Filco, I think. I like the secure connection of wired, but maybe I'm just outdated in my thinking. Does laser etched imply that they may be thicker as well? I know some people have an issue with what they see as thin, relatively flimsy caps on the Filco.

I have a friend who is going to visit family in Vietnam. I have no idea what/if is available there so far as boards go, but he's gonna check.


----------



## lmnop

I don't think they have to be thick. can't have full n-key rollover on wireless. this model had a really buggy Bluetooth chip that FCC wouldn't license so it was never sold in the US. a geekhack member in January this year contacted Diatec support and they said a new model is being developed. Datacomp who manufactured the steelseries 7g showcased this model at Computex a couple years back so they were the original manufacturer not Costar, maybe they only manufactured the Bluetooth aspect.

Christine


----------



## nijikon5

Woot, looks like I'm going to get one or two of those Cherry KBs after all.

Thanks to Christine for the heads-up on them and the info.

Also thanks to kip for offering his services to everyone.


----------



## Otterclock

I may indeed go for one of the reds. I've been in need of a low force keyboard due to hand pain. I have a board with browns on the way, as well as a keytronic (yuk, dome, but I've heard they are acceptable) that allegedly is 35g for the primary keys. we'll see how it goes.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Otterclock*


I may indeed go for one of the reds. I've been in need of a low force keyboard due to hand pain. I have a board with browns on the way, as well as a keytronic (yuk, dome, but I've heard they are acceptable) that allegedly is 35g for the primary keys. we'll see how it goes.


in Chao's review he mentioned the Cherry MX Red switches feel lighter than the 35g capacitive switches on the Topre.

Christine


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I don't think they have to be thick. can't have full n-key rollover on wireless. this model had a really buggy Bluetooth chip that FCC wouldn't license so it was never sold in the US. a geekhack member in January this year contacted Diatec support and they said a new model is being developed. Datacomp who manufactured the steelseries 7g showcased this model at Computex a couple years back so they were the original manufacturer not Costar, maybe they only manufactured the Bluetooth aspect.

Christine


Do you know if the BT issue was with the dongle or the boards' chip?

My laptop's got BT on it, and it'd be worth it to pick up one of those boards to use with it if it's just an issue with the dongle.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Do you know if the BT issue was with the dongle or the boards' chip?

My laptop's got BT on it, and it'd be worth it to pick up one of those boards to use with it if it's just an issue with the dongle.


I think it was the chip. the new one will probably be out at the end of the year or next.

Christine


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I think it was the chip. the new one will probably be out at the end of the year or next.

Christine


I am an impatient spud!

But thanks for the info.


----------



## Otterclock

Quote:



in Chao's review he mentioned the Cherry MX Red switches feel lighter than the 35g capacitive switches on the Topre.


Reds are sounder better and better. Just gotta wait and see if the browns are light enough, which they may be since I'm coming from relatively stiff rubber domes. If I like the browns, I'll go for the best one I can find (the one on its way is a Compaq 11800), preferably a Cherry board, not a filco/das. If I think I can stand to go even lighter and won't miss the slight tactile bump, the Reds.

Thanks again for the info; it really opened up some options I hadn't considered.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *zabrak*


nice


Beik shee ya zaber?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Otterclock*


Reds are sounder better and better. Just gotta wait and see if the browns are light enough, which they may be since I'm coming from relatively stiff rubber domes. If I like the browns, I'll go for the best one I can find (the one on its way is a Compaq 11800), preferably a Cherry board, not a filco/das. If I think I can stand to go even lighter and won't miss the slight tactile bump, the Reds.

Thanks again for the info; it really opened up some options I hadn't considered.










You gotta understand something about Cherry boards though - not all are created equal. Look at the keycaps in the beginning of the guide for example - their laser etching looks like GARBAGE.


----------



## KipH

Small update. One of the sellers has replied to my wife. He will ship to America for $700Nt. His keys are $4700Nt however. He also says he has blank key caps







I also seen a box of cherry switches in on of his pictures!!

The only issue then would be payment. We would have to work something out. If you pay with American Credit card there are fees and other fees







I can take paypal, but then its hard for me to get the $ unless I go shopping.

He sounds like one of us too, a keyboard appreciator








My wife thinks we are all crazy!

All prices quoted in this post are TWD. I am on other computer with no converter.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


Small update. One of the sellers has replied to my wife. He will ship to America for $700Nt. His keys are $4700Nt however. He also says he has blank key caps







I also seen a box of cherry switches in on of his pictures!!

The only issue then would be payment. We would have to work something out. If you pay with American Credit card there are fees and other fees







I can take paypal, but then its hard for me to get the $ unless I go shopping.

He sounds like one of us too, a keyboard appreciator








My wife thinks we are all crazy!

All prices quoted in this post are TWD. I am on other computer with no converter.


I use Google:

700 Taiwan dollars = 22.0129 U.S. dollars

4700 Taiwan dollars = 147.8009 U.S. dollars

I just Googled "convert 700 TWD to USD", and "convert 4700 TWD to USD".









It's essentially Google Calculator.


----------



## Otterclock

Quote:

You gotta understand something about Cherry boards though - not all are created equal. Look at the keycaps in the beginning of the guide for example - their laser etching looks like GARBAGE.
I'll definitely try to do my homework before buying anything. Geekhack is quite helpful in this regard.

Quote:

The only issue then would be payment. We would have to work something out. If you pay with American Credit card there are fees and other fees I can take paypal, but then its hard for me to get the $ unless I go shopping.
Is there an issue with Paypal sending funds to your bank account? I checked out Paypal's site and it looked like they work with banks in Taiwan. https://www.paypal.com/worldwide/


----------



## KipH

Other than avoiding Paypal because they try and screw you and it leads to me shopping for stuff while I need to save for a big trip... no. I just have not tried. I will give it a try. Its a Canadian paypal. I know they have Taiwan paypal, but they are not linked. Give me a minute and I will check.

Yes, I can Google it, but I don't like multi tasking at work on my EeePC.


----------



## Otterclock

Actually yeah, paypal can be a pain, so that's totally understandable. Ultimately you're doing people a nice thing here, so this really shouldn't inconvenience you in any way.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Beik shee ya zaber?









You gotta understand something about Cherry boards though - not all are created equal. Look at the keycaps in the beginning of the guide for example - their laser etching looks like GARBAGE.


don't make fun of my klingon layout









in a translated review I read, the author said the reason they use POM over PBT on the black models is because the laser etching used to turn out blurry.

the laser etching on POM keycaps looks rather nice.


























one thing I didn't notice before was the characters are thicker on the black model.

Christine


----------



## Ktulu

All this talk about keys thinking. Can you buy new keys for the DELL AT101W? Is there a good place for at least keycap stickers?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ktulu*


All this talk about keys thinking. Can you buy new keys for the DELL AT101W? Is there a good place for at least keycap stickers?


try here.

Christine


----------



## Ktulu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


try here.

Christine


Thanks Christine,

Have you ever seen clear stickers with black or white letters?

I would really like to just like to learn how to type better so I don't need stickers


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ktulu*


Thanks Christine,

Have you ever seen clear stickers with black or white letters?

I would really like to just like to learn how to type better so I don't need stickers


you mean a transparent overlay with a black or white character? I don't think so, not to say they don't exist, I just don't know where. they also make black and white overlays with no characters for touch typing see here.

did you find yourself looking at the keys of your old keyboard to much?

Christine


----------



## Ktulu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


you mean a transparent overlay with a black or white character? I don't think so, not to say they don't exist, I just don't know where. they also make black and white overlays with no characters for touch typing see here.

did you find yourself looking at the keys of your old keyboard to much?

Christine


I actually don't know how to type properly. I have to look at the keys when I type but some letter I can naturally remember their place.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ktulu*


I actually don't know how to type properly. I have to look at the keys when I type but some letter I can naturally remember their place.


I learned to type a little earlier on a IBM Model M before my primary and middle school computer classes, but in school my computer teacher used to make us run these educational typing programs that had random paragraphs that you followed along. now in days there is lots of educational typing programs, so I would look in that direction.

Christine


----------



## Ktulu

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I learned to type a little earlier on a IBM Model M before my primary and middle school computer classes, but in school my computer teacher used to make us run these educational typing programs that had random paragraphs that you followed along. now in days there is lots of educational typing programs, so I would look in that direction.

Christine

Thanks









I remember doing that too. I have been using computers since about 1991 when I was in grade school and I do remember a few typing lessons, but nothing that could teach me how to type. I can type pretty fast but, if I am transcribing something, or trying to type something I am not precisely thinking, I am worse off using this system.


----------



## KipH

Well. I think my wife now hates you, all.









I went to the local good computer store, because it was 8PM and I was pissed of at works and I can







Asked them if they can get the Cherry KB. They looked amazed that I would ask for such a thing and probably can't get English.

So I ask if he has any others. Out pops and I-rocks. Chinese keys and brown switch goodness. Takes some getting used to, its small, much smaller then the g15mkII I had. And the ? is annoying. I hit the down 1/2 the time. And it took ,me a min to find the /.

But I am clicking away happy now









Oh. I got it for 2600NT$ (about 80usd) and that is with the discount and no tax I get for being his best customer. So not great but impulse is like that. Its heavy so shipping is probably not worth it at this price.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


Well. I think my wife now hates you, all.









I went to the local good computer store, because it was 8PM and I was pissed of at works and I can







Asked them if they can get the Cherry KB. They looked amazed that I would ask for such a thing and probably can't get English.

So I ask if he has any others. Out pops and I-rocks. Chinese keys and brown switch goodness. Takes some getting used to, its small, much smaller then the g15mkII I had. And the ? is annoying. I hit the down 1/2 the time. And it took ,me a min to find the /.

But I am clicking away happy now









Oh. I got it for 2600NT$ (about 80usd) and that is with the discount and no tax I get for being his best customer. So not great but impulse is like that. Its heavy so shipping is probably not worth it at this price.


I think Manyak used to own that one. enjoy









Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I think Manyak used to own that one. enjoy









Christine


Still do









It's a pretty nice board, but that /? key takes a while to get used to. And then once you _do_ get used to it, whenever you go to a different keyboard you get tripped up with the regular positioning.

They should have moved the arrow keys one space to the right, so that the up arrow is where the /? key is now and the 0 key on the numpad gets shortened to single-width. It would have made things much, much easier. If they had done that it would have been perfect imo.

Kip: Just FYI, if you have numlock on, you can hold Ctrl to use PgUp/PgDn/etc on it without turning numlock off.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Still do









It's a pretty nice board, but that /? key takes a while to get used to. And then once you _do_ get used to it, whenever you go to a different keyboard you get tripped up with the regular positioning.

They should have moved the arrow keys one space to the right, so that the up arrow is where the /? key is now and the 0 key on the numpad gets shortened to single-width. It would have made things much, much easier. If they had done that it would have been perfect imo.


you never sold it? you had it for sale in your signature for a long time.

I didn't notice this until now but look where the \\ key is on the steelseries 6gv2

they trade one problem in for another









Christine


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ktulu*


Thanks









I remember doing that too. I have been using computers since about 1991 when I was in grade school and I do remember a few typing lessons, but nothing that could teach me how to type. I can type pretty fast but, if I am transcribing something, or trying to type something I am not precisely thinking, I am worse off using this system.


Typist Tutor
Gtypist (what they use on Education-Buntu)

Either of these programs work well. They're not that fancy. But they'll teach you what you need to know.


----------



## KipH

It has other odd key layout issues for the Chinese too. But I am loving the click and feel. Feels like typing again. Real age showing smile one my face now.

I can tell I will be getting more, demote this one to EeePC duties and buy a Cherry for home










OH noes!! My 3 year old just discovered the blue led goes on and off when pressed


----------



## forgot_to_order_a_quad

Mechanical keyboards = ***[email protected](#)[email protected]?!?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *forgot_to_order_a_quad*


mechanical keyboards = ***[email protected](#)[email protected]?!?


... ?


----------



## Ktulu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Typist Tutor
Gtypist (what they use on Education-Buntu)

Either of these programs work well. They're not that fancy. But they'll teach you what you need to know.


Thanks Tator, I will make learning to type one of my goals after I graduate. I think I messed up the order on that one.


----------



## lmnop

mmm tator tot casserole

Christine


----------



## Tator Tot

I condone the eating of my brothers.









Cannibalism is just part of being at top of the food chain.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ktulu* 
Thanks Christine,

Have you ever seen clear stickers with black or white letters?

I would really like to just like to learn how to type better so I don't need stickers


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ktulu* 
Thanks









I remember doing that too. I have been using computers since about 1991 when I was in grade school and I do remember a few typing lessons, but nothing that could teach me how to type. I can type pretty fast but, if I am transcribing something, or trying to type something I am not precisely thinking, I am worse off using this system.

Hey Ktulu, I just want to say that I believe the absolute best way to learn how to type is from a good textbook as opposed to software. This is because a textbook forces you to look at the textbook instead of the monitor which I believe is a very valuable skill. I'm not saying that this skill can't be acquired with software, but I think that the naturalness of this skill is maximized by a textbook.

I learned how to touch type (by myself, at home; self-motivated) from a textbook using WordPerfect 5.1 on a system that only had DOS - but these days I would use Notepad. This was a tremendously excellent way for me to learn because it forced me to be very careful. I mean, I couldn't depend on software to tell me when I made a mistake, so I had to depend on myself! Thus, I quickly learned how to detect typographical errors and misspellings just by feel alone. As a result, I was able to easily transcribe from a piece of paper immediately after finishing my lessons. Yeah, I would still check my typing every few words or every other sentence or so, but I was almost always typing with 100% accuracy thanks to my instant detection of mistakes (Backspacing is almost an involuntary reaction).

But there's likely software out there that can provide a very similar experience that I had. But I'm very grateful that I could depend on myself to know when I made a mistake as opposed to having software do the thinking _for_ me. I was completely self-sufficient which I believe really improved my learning/memorization.

Although, software is a million times more convenient since a textbook doesn't have to be carried around, propped up, etc.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *forgot_to_order_a_quad* 
Mechanical keyboards = ***[email protected](#)[email protected]?!?

What would you like to know? I mean, are you interested in why we like mechanical keyboards over the rubber dome switch keyboards like the Logitech and Razer keyboards that you have?

It's a bit difficult to describe, but lately I've been thinking about how much I love the lively, springy feel of each key as opposed to the dead feeling of rubber dome switch boards. Unfortunately, this difference only becomes apparent once you begin using a good mechanical keyboard. Each key on my keyboard (the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO) gently pushes back because each key has a spring! Again, I have 104 individual buttons on my keyboard (as opposed to 104 keycaps stuck to a big rubber sheet).

I upgraded to this board from the Razer Lycosa which I used to think was quite a good keyboard. I remember highly recommending it to people any chance I got. I really enjoyed the typing experience and the fantastic appearance of the keyboard. But that keyboard is like a cheap child's toy in comparison to the Majestouch. It's like the difference between a cheap child's pretend tool set and a man's high-end, high quality top of the line professional tool set. I admit that this analogy is lacking in that a child's tool set cannot really be used, but I'm exaggerating on purpose.

Now, don't be scared off by the word "mechanical". I mean, when I was first told about mechanical keyboards (which was almost 2 months ago now), all I could think was "noisy", "ugly", "out-dated", "archaic", "old", "inferior", etc. But now that I have one, I now know that I was absolutely wrong. Y'know, I thought that I really loved the Lycosa. But it's quite different for me with the Majestouch: for the first time ever, I am extremely happy with my keyboard. I'm extremely enthusiastic about it. I'm extremely excited about how awesome it is. For the first time ever, I am happier with my keyboard than I am with my entire computer system.

If I had seen somebody here on Overclock.net say "I'm happier with my keyboard than I am with my entire computer system" prior to getting rid of my Lycosa, then I would have wanted to tell them that they just don't know any better and that they should try a keyboard like the Lycosa or the G15/G19. I would have tried to pull them out of the dark ages and I would have felt like I needed to save them from their ignorance. But the truth is: I was the ignorant one!!! But fortunately, I decided to consider mechanical keyboards and I decided to start learning about them. It was only then that I realized that it's very possible that I'll be happy with one.

Unfortunately, this is one of those things that have to be experienced. I think that there is no way to truly explain it so that somebody says, "Oh. Well then it's a no-brainer: I'll get the best mechanical keyboard that I can right now". It's almost like trying to convince somebody who is a picky eater that they should try a certain new food because it is absolutely delicious and will likely become their new favorite food. It's not exactly the same as this, but it's similar.

So yeah. That's pretty much how I feel about mechanical keyboards now. My goal here is to hopefully allow you to understand why we all feel that mechanical keyboards are far superior to keyboards such as the Razer Lycosa/Arctosa, the G15/G19 and all the other popular (and unpopular) keyboards that you can find at pretty much every major store (like Best Buy and Newegg).


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Quote:



Originally Posted by *forgot_to_order_a_quad*


Mechanical keyboards = ***[email protected](#)[email protected]?!?


...
...
...


If you are skeptical about mechanical keyboards, just look at the length of TwoCables' posts since he got one







. Its so much better than the Lycosa that it makes _my eyes hurt_.

(No offense TwoCables)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


If you are skeptical about mechanical keyboards, just look at the length of TwoCables' posts since he got one







. Its so much better than the Lycosa that it makes _my eyes hurt_.

(No offense TwoCables)


But it's a great point! I was actually going to finish that post by saying that it would have been shorter if I typed it on the Lycosa just because it's such a pleasure to type on this Majestouch Tactile Click! I never want to stop typing on it!!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quite honestly I've gotten angry at auto complete on browsers because it wouldn't let me type the full url out with my mechanical keyboard. I never had this problem with the old Logitech. What's wrong with us.

Edit:

Over the last few days I've been having consistent ghosting issues with the filco. This isn't how one key I didn't click showed up, but rather, keys being stuck after they're released. It would be "wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww" and "hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" instead of just one w and h.

Just very weird.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Quite honestly I've gotten angry at auto complete on browsers because it wouldn't let me type the full url out with my mechanical keyboard. I never had this problem with the old Logitech. What's wrong with us.

Yeah, well I want to be able to type non-stop, 24/7. I don't even want a 1 millisecond break.

Beat that.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Quite honestly I've gotten angry at auto complete on browsers because it wouldn't let me type the full url out with my mechanical keyboard. I never had this problem with the old Logitech. What's wrong with us.

i'll take a guess and say it's because your bottoming out. a Cherry MX Blue switch actuation point is 2mm and the actuation point of a rubber dome is 3.5mm-4mm so the keystrokes are being registered faster on the Filco and if your pressing a key all the way down on the Filco time is being wasted.

you either need to learn to not bottom out on the keys or find a way to increase the timeout of the auto complete script.

Christine


----------



## 88EVGAFTW

My ABS M1 will be here tomorrow







I will reply here stating how the experience goes


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
i'll take a guess and say it's because your bottoming out. a Cherry MX Blue switch actuation point is 2mm and the actuation point of a rubber dome is 3.5mm-4mm so the keystrokes are being registered faster on the Filco and if your pressing a key all the way down on the Filco time is being wasted.

you either need to learn to not bottom out on the keys or find a way to increase the timeout of the auto complete script.

Christine

He's saying that he wants to type out the full address because it's such a pleasure to type on the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click as opposed to his old Logitech board. Therefore, he almost gets irritated with Auto Complete because it's like Auto Complete is taking away some of his opportunities to type.

That's why I responded to him the way I did.

So, he's talking about Auto Complete, not AutoHotKey. He's also trying to be funny in response to what I said just before him.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *88EVGAFTW* 
My ABS M1 will be here tomorrow







I will reply here stating how the experience goes









Oh man, I'm looking forward to it!


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
He's saying that he wants to type out the full address because it's such a pleasure to type on his mechanical keyboard as opposed to his old Logitech board. Therefore, he almost gets irritated with Auto Complete because it's like Auto Complete is taking away some of his opportunities to type more.

That's why I responded to him the way I did.

So, he's talking about Auto Complete, not AutoHotKey. He's also trying to be funny in response to what I said just before him.

Oh man, I'm looking forward to it!

I didn't see his edit or your post. it's 5:30am what do you want a song and dance









Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I didn't see his edit or your post. it's 5:30am what do you want a song and dance









Christine

But the stuff he said before his added Edit is what you replied to.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Quite honestly I've gotten angry at auto complete on browsers because it wouldn't let me type the full url out with my mechanical keyboard. I never had this problem with the old Logitech. What's wrong with us.

Edit:

Over the last few days I've been having consistent ghosting issues with the filco. This isn't how one key I didn't click showed up, but rather, keys being stuck after they're released. It would be "wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww" and "hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" instead of just one w and h.

Just very weird.

Is it literally that many characters in a row?


----------



## lmnop

yes I thought he wanted to know why he couldn't type a full url out like he could on his old Logitech keyboard.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


yes I thought he wanted to know why he couldn't type a full url out like he could on his old Logitech keyboard.

Christine


I admit that I had to re-read it because I thought he was saying the same thing. I even thought "AutoHotKey" when I read "auto complete" since I'm so used to think about it when I see the word "auto" in this thread.









But since what I thought he was saying didn't make sense, I had to re-read it to be sure.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Quite honestly I've gotten angry at auto complete on browsers because it wouldn't let me type the full url out with my mechanical keyboard. I never had this problem with the old Logitech. What's wrong with us.

Edit:

Over the last few days I've been having consistent ghosting issues with the filco. This isn't how one key I didn't click showed up, but rather, keys being stuck after they're released. It would be "wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww" and "hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" instead of just one w and h.

Just very weird.


I believe it's actually a windows setting that's causing the multiple key presses.

I had the same problem in Ubuntu once, and it was some keyboard setting or driver.

Have you checked to make sure "Sticky Keys" is not on? Usually happens if you press "Left Shift" 5 times.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Quite honestly I've gotten angry at auto complete on browsers because it wouldn't let me type the full url out with my mechanical keyboard. I never had this problem with the old Logitech. What's wrong with us.

Edit:

Over the last few days I've been having consistent ghosting issues with the filco. This isn't how one key I didn't click showed up, but rather, keys being stuck after they're released. It would be "wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww" and "hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" instead of just one w and h.

Just very weird.



If it's happening only with specific letters, POUND those keys over and over for like a minute. It should wear in the switches a little bit and stop it from happening.

If it's happening on _all_ letters there's something going on with your software, though I'm not sure what.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Only happened to two keys, "w" and "h". The length was about 6-8 letters long. I also hate bottoming out and do it very rarely. Since it only happened twice I'm not worried. It's not a big deal but surprising when it happened. And since I can't reproduce this error I can only assume Walnut's right saying it's a windows problem.


----------



## 88EVGAFTW

I am LOVING this ABS M1





















I love how the keys don't have to be pressed down all the way to register, makes it better for gaming since I don't have to worry about slamming my finger down into the key like on the Lycosa just to get it to work. You get a nice tactical feel when pressing them down and now I can just tap them when gaming. I mainly use Foobar2000 now so in the preferences I set the Page up key as Volume up, Page down key as Volume down, Home key as play/pause, End key as Stop
















I love typing on this, I wish i had would have gotten this back when I was typing a lot for school
















Also to all the people that complain about the LEDs, they are crazy out of their mind







:














The only way I notice how bright they are is if I stand directly above the keyboard, other than that I can't even tell how bright they are


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *88EVGAFTW*


I am LOVING this ABS M1





















I love how the keys don't have to be pressed down all the way to register, makes it better for gaming since I don't have to worry about slamming my finger down into the key like on the Lycosa just to get it to work. You get a nice tactical feel when pressing them down and now I can just tap them when gaming. I mainly use Foobar2000 now so in the preferences I set the Page up key as Volume up, Page down key as Volume down, Home key as play/pause, End key as Stop
















I love typing on this, I wish i had would have gotten this back when I was typing a lot for school
















Also to all the people that complain about the LEDs, they are crazy out of their mind







:














The only way I notice how bright they are is if I stand directly above the keyboard, other than that I can't even tell how bright they are

















not everybody has a similar viewing angle, they are indeed bright. a solution to dim them is clear nail polish. glad you are happy with your purchase









Christine


----------



## 88EVGAFTW

You could knock someone out with this thing, it weighs like 2 pounds


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *88EVGAFTW*


You could knock someone out with this thing, it weighs like 2 pounds

















I have smacked someone in the head with my M1 before









I usually bring it with me to LAN's.


----------



## Otterclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *88EVGAFTW* 
You could knock someone out with this thing, it weighs like 2 pounds
















The ABS weighs over 3lbs, I think. It seems to have a good reputation for reliability as well. Good value, there.


----------



## -=R00bin=-

I recently purchased a Filco clicky tacticle. I want to change the black escape key with the red one supplied but I don't have the key removing tool. What's the best way to do it?

Also, how durable are the cherry mx blue's? I accidentally left the window open today and it rained. It doesn't look like it hit the keyboard but there were what looked like water/dirt marks on the top of my speaker.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *-=R00bin=-* 
I recently purchased a Filco clicky tacticle. I want to change the black escape key with the red one supplied but I don't have the key removing tool. What's the best way to do it?

Also, how durable are the cherry mx blue's? I accidentally left the window open today and it rained. It doesn't look like it hit the keyboard but there were what looked like water/dirt marks on the top of my speaker.

I use the tab of an old 56k modem. Anything works really, I honestly don't see why anyone would spend money on a tool to do it.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I use the tab of an old 56k modem. Anything works really, I honestly don't see why anyone would spend money on a tool to do it.

Easier and faster.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


Originally Posted by *88EVGAFTW* 
I am LOVING this ABS M1





















I love how the keys don't have to be pressed down all the way to register, makes it better for gaming since I don't have to worry about slamming my finger down into the key like on the Lycosa just to get it to work. You get a nice tactical feel when pressing them down and now I can just tap them when gaming. I mainly use Foobar2000 now so in the preferences I set the Page up key as Volume up, Page down key as Volume down, Home key as play/pause, End key as Stop
















I love typing on this, I wish i had would have gotten this back when I was typing a lot for school
















Also to all the people that complain about the LEDs, they are crazy out of their mind







:














The only way I notice how bright they are is if I stand directly above the keyboard, other than that I can't even tell how bright they are
















Christine explained to me that the ABS M1 has nothing on a Daskeyboard or Filco. I can't wait till I move on to one of those ;o


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skylit* 
Christine explained to me that the ABS M1 has nothing on a Daskeyboard or Filco. I can't wait till I move on to one of those ;o

Considering I own two Filco's, the M1, a Cherry board, and a few others. I'd say speaking of overall build construction (IE: how it's able to take abuse) they're about the same.

You cannot directly compare the Filco's to the ABS M1 besides my Filco's (but not all of them) have NKRO, and dimmer LED's on them.

Typing wise, they use different switches. So comparing the switches and such would be redundant as that's all personal preference.


----------



## mtbiker033

Can I replace the keys on my das ultimate? I would like to put red keys for escape and w-a-s-d. They don't sell them on their web-site and googling led me nowhere.


----------



## -=R00bin=-

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I use the tab of an old 56k modem. Anything works really, I honestly don't see why anyone would spend money on a tool to do it.


How exactly do you do this? Do you used the flat edge of the pci bracket and slide it down the edges of the esc key to pry it out?


----------



## Otterclock

Quote:



Christine explained to me that the ABS M1 has nothing on a Daskeyboard or Filco. I can't wait till I move on to one of those ;o
__________________


The few people I know who used the ABS/Das/Filco say that it can stand without shame next to both (taste in keyswitches aside), and that if ABS ever decided to make a version with cherry blues/browns at a similar price, there would be trouble in keyboard town. It's not like the Scorpius, where the low price tag came with a pretty big risk of crappitude. But that isn't because the Scorpius is cheap; it's because it's a Scorpius. Edit: To be fair, I got a replacement that works just fine.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *-=R00bin=-* 
How exactly do you do this? Do you used the flat edge of the pci bracket and slide it down the edges of the esc key to pry it out?

I just bend a paper clip so it has hooks on both sides, slide it under the edges of the key on the sides, and gently pull up. You can use 2 paper clips if you need to.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Only happened to two keys, "w" and "h". The length was about 6-8 letters long. I also hate bottoming out and do it very rarely. Since it only happened twice I'm not worried. It's not a big deal but surprising when it happened. And since I can't reproduce this error I can only assume Walnut's right saying it's a windows problem.


Is your keyboard connected via USB, or through the USB to PS/2 adapter?

I mean, if it's connected straight through USB without that adapter, then use the adapter.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *88EVGAFTW*


I am LOVING this ABS M1





















I love how the keys don't have to be pressed down all the way to register, makes it better for gaming since I don't have to worry about slamming my finger down into the key like on the Lycosa just to get it to work. You get a nice tactical feel when pressing them down and now I can just tap them when gaming. I mainly use Foobar2000 now so in the preferences I set the Page up key as Volume up, Page down key as Volume down, Home key as play/pause, End key as Stop
















I love typing on this, I wish i had would have gotten this back when I was typing a lot for school
















Also to all the people that complain about the LEDs, they are crazy out of their mind







:














The only way I notice how bright they are is if I stand directly above the keyboard, other than that I can't even tell how bright they are

















w00t!!!!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I have smacked someone in the head with my M1 before









I usually bring it with me to LAN's.


If we ever end up at a LAN party together, then remind me to stay on your good side.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Otterclock*


The ABS weighs over 3lbs, I think. It seems to have a good reputation for reliability as well. Good value, there.


If the ABS M1 and the 104-key Filco Majestouch weigh the same, then the ABS M1 weights 2 pounds, 10 ounces. However, it certainly feels heavier than that.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *-=R00bin=-*


I recently purchased a Filco clicky tacticle. I want to change the black escape key with the red one supplied but I don't have the key removing tool. What's the best way to do it?


When removing the key, remain focused on the way the stem looks (from the pictures you've seen). The goal is to remove the key straight up off the stem.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *-=R00bin=-*


Also, how durable are the cherry mx blue's? I accidentally left the window open today and it rained. It doesn't look like it hit the keyboard but there were what looked like water/dirt marks on the top of my speaker.


If you don't see any water spots on the keyboard, then no water got on it (there would definitely be water spots). But even so: the keycap would protect the switch from droplets coming in like that.

But now if a beverage were spilled onto the keyboard, then the board might be screwed.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *-=R00bin=-*


How exactly do you do this? Do you used the flat edge of the pci bracket and slide it down the edges of the esc key to pry it out?


Use whatever you can in order to pull the keycap vertically straight up off the stem.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


If we ever end up at a LAN party together, then remind me to stay on your good side.










Well I had to explain to him that mechanical keyboards were more durable than the logitech crap. So we took a broken G15 sittin in the back of the store, and he hit me with it. Broke the board so it had issues typing.

I took my M1 and smacked him with it. Still works fine to this day.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Well I had to explain to him that mechanical keyboards were more durable than the logitech crap. So we took a broken G15 sittin in the back of the store, and he hit me with it. Broke the board so it had issues typing.

I took my M1 and smacked him with it. Still works fine to this day.










lol now that's pure win right there!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *-=R00bin=-*


How exactly do you do this? Do you used the flat edge of the pci bracket and slide it down the edges of the esc key to pry it out?


You use the bent part that would screw into your case. Just pop that under the key and pry upwards.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Skylit* 
Christine explained to me that the ABS M1 has nothing on a Daskeyboard or Filco. I can't wait till I move on to one of those ;o

this is true.

if it makes you feel better, compare it to other Alps keyboards it's still mediocre.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtbiker033* 
Can I replace the keys on my das ultimate? I would like to put red keys for escape and w-a-s-d. They don't sell them on their web-site and googling led me nowhere.

yes. but they are overseas. I would try rit dye first. see this thread there is another on geekhack.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
If the ABS M1 and the 104-key Filco Majestouch weigh the same, then the ABS M1 weights 2 pounds, 10 ounces. However, it certainly feels heavier than that.

i'm pretty sure the Filco Majestouch 104 weighs 2.5 lbs and the ABS M1 weighs 3.5 lbs.

I don't think the extra 1 lb is coming from the ***kas because the Filco Zero and Filco TenKeyless weigh the same at 2.1 lbs. I think it's the casing and steel plate.

Christine


----------



## lmnop

*new* Cherry G80-11900 on eBay starting at $29.99.

Christine


----------



## salmasy

Am i the only person who uses his fingers to take keys out? why the heck do you guys buy tools to do it? its just as easy with your own fingers, and much much cheaper


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


this is true.

if it makes you feel better, compare it to other Alps keyboards it's still mediocre.

yes. but they are overseas. I would try rit dye first. see this thread there is another on geekhack.

i'm pretty sure the Filco Majestouch 104 weighs 2.5 lbs and the ABS M1 weighs 3.5 lbs.

I don't think the extra 1 lb is coming from the ***kas because the Filco Zero and Filco TenKeyless weigh the same at 2.1 lbs. I think it's the casing and steel plate.

Christine


But I'm just going by what Elite Keyboards.com says, and they say that the 104-key Majestouch boards are 2lbs, 10oz while the Tenkeyless boards weigh 2lbs, 2oz.

But I forgot about the difference in weight between the ALPS copies and the Cherry MX switches as well as the other possible differences in the internal build of both the ABS M1 and Majestouch boards.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *salmasy*


Am i the only person who uses his fingers to take keys out? why the heck do you guys buy tools to do it? its just as easy with your own fingers, and much much cheaper


Are you doing this with a mechanical keyboard? If so, then which one?


----------



## 93coupe

This thread has me sold! The pictures really helped, thanks a bunch guys.

G19 it is...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *93coupe* 
This thread has me sold! The pictures really helped, thanks a bunch guys.

G19 it is...

Oh, so what exactly are you saying?


----------



## 93coupe

None of the mechanicals look good to me. It seems like the keyboard manufacturers are bound in design by the switches?? In any case, they are all very similar in design and the only backlit keyboard is the Deck which is one of the more ugly mechanicals because of the key font. I would _like_ mechanical actuation but I _need_ backlighting.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *93coupe* 
None of the mechanicals look good to me. It seems like the keyboard manufacturers are bound in design by the switches?? In any case, they are all very similar in design and the only backlit keyboard is the Deck which is one of the more ugly mechanicals because of the key font. I would _like_ mechanical actuation but I _need_ backlighting.

How badly do you need it though? I mean, I used to need it, but I find that my eyes feel much better when I use my computer with the lights on. It's as if my eyes don't have to work as hard or something.

As a result, I have the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO (err, I kept it). I used to own the G15 and the Lycosa. But the Majestouch is a *billion* times better. I don't miss a damn thing about either of those keyboards. In fact, you couldn't even _pay_ me to go back to those keyboards.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *93coupe* 
None of the mechanicals look good to me. It seems like the keyboard manufacturers are bound in design by the switches?? In any case, they are all very similar in design and the only backlit keyboard is the Deck which is one of the more ugly mechanicals because of the key font. I would _like_ mechanical actuation but *I need backlighting*.

Maybe you should learn to type.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Maybe you should learn to type.

Or, he could learn _how_ to type too.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *93coupe* 
None of the mechanicals look good to me. It seems like the keyboard manufacturers are bound in design by the switches?? In any case, they are all very similar in design and the only backlit keyboard is the Deck which is one of the more ugly mechanicals because of the key font. I would _like_ mechanical actuation but I _need_ backlighting.

iOne XArmor U9BL is coming out soon. MSRP is $149.95

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Maybe you should learn to type.

hey I dropped out my third year into my masters in computer science, I majored in reverse engineering. I have terrible grammar and punctuation because I am a programmer!









Christine


----------



## 93coupe

Hmm, you assume a need for backlighting implies a "hunt-and-peck" typist? You must be one of those people who actually uses the term "touch typist."


----------



## TwoCables

93coupe:

I'm just going to come right out and say it: form _follows_ function. At the risk of being rude, you are far too worried about the appearance of the keyboard. Now, I will admit that I am extremely pleased with the appearance of the Filco Majestouch (and I like it _*way*_ more than the G15 and the Lycosa, both of which I used to own and love), but to be absolutely and completely honest with you, it wouldn't matter if this thing were butt-ugly!! This is due to the way the keyboard feels when I use it. Again, form follows function. The function is more important than the form/appearance.

Yes, the G15/G19 look pretty cool, but they are still just extremely-overpriced keyboards due to the rubber dome switches. In the end, you're spending $175 for a keyboard that's quite inferior to a Deck Legend costing the same amount. The G19's exterior is beautiful, but it's interior is almost no better than a cheap $15-$20 generic keyboard.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *93coupe* 
Hmm, you assume a need for backlighting implies a "hunt-and-peck" typist? You must be one of those people who actually uses the term "touch typist."

But the term "Touch Typist" is the proper term. What would you call it?

Anyway, are you just trolling this thread? Or are you hoping to find out why we are so infatuated with mechanical keyboards?


----------



## 93coupe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
the iOne XArmor U9BL is coming out soon. MSRP is $149.95

hey I dropped out my third year into my masters in computer science, I majored in reverse engineering. I have terrible grammar and punctuation because I am a programmer!









Christine

That keyboard looks promising, thank you. That's part of the reason I need backlighting, writing code I need to type all the obscure brackets and symbols located in equally obscure parts of the keyboard... and I'm no Zatoichi!


----------



## 93coupe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
93coupe:

I'm just going to come right out and say it: form _follows_ function. At the risk of being rude, you are far too worried about the appearance of the keyboard. Now, I will admit that I am extremely pleased with the appearance of the Filco Majestouch (and I like it _*way*_ more than the G15 and the Lycosa, both of which I used to own and love), but to be absolutely and completely honest with you, it wouldn't matter if this thing were butt-ugly!! This is due to the way the keyboard feels when I use it. Again, form follows function. The function is more important than the form/appearance.

Yes, the G15/G19 look pretty cool, but they are still just extremely-overpriced keyboards due to the rubber dome switches. In the end, you're spending $175 for a keyboard that's quite inferior to a Deck Legend costing the same amount. The G19's exterior is beautiful, but it's interior is almost no better than a cheap $15-$20 generic keyboard.

But the term "Touch Typist" is the proper term. What would you call it?

Anyway, are you just trolling this thread? Or are you hoping to find out why we are so infatuated with mechanical keyboards?

I call it typing because the term "touch typist" really only differentiates people who type from those who don't.

I was trying to do neither, thank you for your input.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *93coupe* 
I call it typing because the term "touch typist" really only differentiates people who type from those who don't.

I know a few people who use the Hunt & Peck method who still call their style "typing" (and so do I, actually). I once told one of those friends, "wow... your typing has improved even though you're not touch typing". He's impressed with himself too.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *93coupe* 
I was trying to do neither, thank you for your input.

I just sensed a bit of an attitude. But I can see now that I misinterpreted your intentions and that the truth is that you didn't have an attitude.


----------



## Crazy9000

Keep in mind you could also backlight the keyboard yourself; theres a thread somewhere on OCN where somebody did it with a string of LED lights that you use for putting inside your PC.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Keep in mind you could also backlight the keyboard yourself; theres a thread somewhere on OCN where somebody did it with a string of LED lights that you use for putting inside your PC.

You can also get a small color LED display and mount it to the keyboard and have it look like a G19.

I think it was on Bit-Tech forums where I saw someone do it with the ROG Poster from an Asus board.


----------



## reedo

so folks, i have a cherry g81 7000 with these switches(see attached pics), and was wondering what the next logical upgrade for gaming and light invoicing (billing) might be. thank you for any and all help given.

P.S. i enjoy keys with quite a bit of resistance i bottom out they keys i have currently.

Thanks,
reedo


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Who cares, everyone can make their own decisions about buying keyboards. For some it's looks, and for others it may be feel and function. People are different, that's okay. No need to convert everyone.

In reality, back-lighting isn't needed ever if you live in a normally lit room.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Who cares, everyone can make their own decisions about buying keyboards. For some it's looks, and for others it may be feel and function. People are different, that's okay. No need to convert everyone.

In reality, back-lighting isn't needed ever if you live in a normally lit room.

But until I started merely _considering_ mechanical keyboards, I was all about the looks and external features. The thing I cared about the least was the typing experience. I almost _didn't_ care. I was far more concerned about the looks, the external features and the features of the driver. I wanted something that would easily impress others. I wanted something that would impress others without having to explain why it's awesome.

But now that I have the Filco Majestouch, I can finally see now what is truly important when shopping for a keyboard. Form follows function. And for the most part, all of those features of the G15 and Lycosa are the keyboard's form, and the rubber dome switch technology it uses is its function. Yes, the features provide functions, but now that I have a "featureless" keyboard, I can see how useless those features really are.








So, they're really better categorized as the keyboard's "form".

So, everyone should care. It's the primary interface between the user and the computer (next to the mouse and monitor).


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *reedo* 
so folks, i have a cherry g81 7000 with these switches(see attached pics), and was wondering what the next logical upgrade for gaming and light invoicing (billing) might be. thank you for any and all help given.

P.S. i enjoy keys with quite a bit of resistance i bottom out they keys i have currently.

Thanks,
reedo

those are Cherry MY switches they require 80g to actuate and 120g to bottom out.

Cherry MX Black Linear require 60g to actuate and 80g to bottom out. that would be my choice.

Christine


----------



## itschadlol

so I've had my Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch "Otaku" for about 4 days and have been playing TONS of counter-strike and diablo 2 on it to get the feel and I must say, its quite amazing and enjoyable. i find myself wanting to skip my evening classes so I can come home and play









my game has definitely improved a good bit, and will continue to improve im sure. I must say that this is the nicest keyboard I have ever owned, and REALLY hope that the quality feel it has stays.

definitely a solid recommendation to anyone who is looking for a keyboard for a nice mix of gaming and typing.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reedo*


so folks, i have a cherry g81 7000 with these switches(see attached pics), and was wondering what the next logical upgrade for gaming and light invoicing (billing) might be. thank you for any and all help given.

P.S. i enjoy keys with quite a bit of resistance i bottom out they keys i have currently.

Thanks,
reedo


The MY switches you currently use are pretty much the heaviest switches out there, reaching 120cN at the bottom.

I'm going to go with Christine's suggestion here with Cherry MX Blacks. They're a bit lighter, but they're also pretty much the closest you're going to get to MYs.

But if you think you want to try something tactile this time around, try a Model M. They're pretty much the same force as the MX Blacks. Their matrix does work fine for WASD gaming.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Who cares, everyone can make their own decisions about buying keyboards. For some it's looks, and for others it may be feel and function. People are different, that's okay. No need to convert everyone.

In reality, back-lighting isn't needed ever if you live in a normally lit room.


In reality, backlighting is never _needed_, in a lit room or not. If you need to actually see the keys you're hitting, even symbols, then you need to train yourself to touch type better.

But your right, mechanical keyboards aren't for everyone. Keyboards (and pretty much all other input devices) are almost entirely dependent on taste. However, you have to look at _how_ the person is making that decision. It's one thing to say "I prefer membrane boards because of A, B, and C", and it's another to say "membrane boards have worked for me so far so I have no reason to try a mechanical". One is a lucid, logical opinion that I'm sure anyone would respect. The other is just stupidity.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I did some programming, and I must say that I never need to look for symbols on a standard keyboard. []{}\\/*&!<>,.;'"-=+%#, I can find all of those without looking. The only symbol I ever have trouble with is ^, because I accidentally hit & instead. As long as I'm on a keyboard that keeps somewhat similar to the standard layout (which has been standard since the Model M) I have no trouble.

It really is a part of touch typing... If you can't find any key on the alphanum section without looking then you can't really claim perfect touch typing.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *itschadlol*


so I've had my Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch "Otaku" for about 4 days and have been playing TONS of counter-strike and diablo 2 on it to get the feel and I must say, its quite amazing and enjoyable. i find myself wanting to skip my evening classes so I can come home and play









my game has definitely improved a good bit, and will continue to improve im sure. I must say that this is the nicest keyboard I have ever owned, and REALLY hope that the quality feel it has stays.

definitely a solid recommendation to anyone who is looking for a keyboard for a nice mix of gaming and typing.


This made me smile. I have this 104-key Tactile Click NKRO, and I know exactly how you feel. I want to be able to type on this thing 24/7, 7 days a week, 52 weeks out of the year, etc. It's such a pleasure to use this keyboard.

Anyway, as for the longevity, check this out. It's an excerpt from a post I made a day and a half ago:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Some switches (especially those found in the commonly-recommended mechanical keyboards) are rated up to 100,000,000 keystrokes, but still go for much longer. That's a hundred million keystrokes for 1 switch. 100,000,000 multiplied by 104 is 10,400,000,000 (10.4 billion). This means that a mechanical keyboard (again, especially the commonly recommended ones) can easily last over 20 years. The best part is that throughout the life of a switch, the feel remains the same. It doesn't degrade and get softer or anything.


Here's the entire [long] post:

http://www.overclock.net/8934992-post2.html










Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


In reality, backlighting is never _needed_, in a lit room or not. If you need to actually see the keys you're hitting, even symbols, then you need to train yourself to touch type better.


I've been touch typing since about 1993 or 1994, and up until about 2-3 months ago, I've always had a little bit of trouble nailing the brackets next to the 'P' key, and also the underscore/minus and plus/equal sign keys by the backspace key. I'd sometimes hit both at the same time, or I'd make some other mistake which was always considered "fat-fingering" due to the lack of precision.

So, I got fed up and decided that I would just work on it. To my surprise, I didn't have to work that hard on it at all. And so now today I can nail them with precision and I no longer have to look at the keyboard. Thanks to this, I can finally hit any key on my keyboard without looking (those were the only 4 keys I had trouble with because I didn't use them that often until I came here to OCN). Therefore, I no longer need light on my keyboard.

The only time I look at my keyboard now is when I want to gaze at it because I love my 104 key Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO.







Yeah, I love it so much that I had to type it all out just so I could type some more.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


But your right, mechanical keyboards aren't for everyone. Keyboards (and pretty much all other input devices) are almost entirely dependent on taste. However, you have to look at _how_ the person is making that decision. It's one thing to say "I prefer membrane boards because of A, B, and C", and it's another to say "membrane boards have worked for me so far so I have no reason to try a mechanical". One is a lucid, logical opinion that I'm sure anyone would respect. The other is just stupidity.


Wow. I couldn't have said it better myself.


----------



## skcheng

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


those are Cherry MY switches they require 80g to actuate and 120g to bottom out.

Cherry MX Black Linear require 60g to actuate and 80g to bottom out. that would be my choice.

Christine



I just picked up a Cherry Black board. I don't see how anyone can type with those switches. And it has an even heavier Cherry Grey space bar. It's almost painful for me to type on that keyboard.

I know Model M buckling springs supposedly require just as much force, but the feel is more crisp and precise in my opinion.

skc


----------



## skcheng

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


*new* Cherry G80-11900 on eBay starting at $29.99.

Christine


I got mine for $15 shipped here:

Cherry G80-11900


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *skcheng*


I got mine for $15 shipped here:

Cherry G80-11900


isn't that the guy who was selling 60 of them? did your Cherry G80-11900 come with lint too?









it's not hard to find a used Cherry G80-11900 for chi chi beans but that one is brand new









Christine


----------



## Ktulu

http://www.overclock.net/online-deal...oard-39-a.html

ABS M1 on sale for $40 shipped.


----------



## Otterclock

Quote:

But your right, mechanical keyboards aren't for everyone.
Starting to think I may be one of those people. Of the mechanicals I think I preferred the white alps. But I keep coming back to my Cherry G83 rubber dome. One person's mushy is another persons smooth, I guess. I think that the noise and response of mechanical switches competes with my thoughts. For some, I can see how it would enhance them, even provide a cadence; but we're all wired differently. I do respect mechanical switches and their appeal.

Regarding touch typing: I'm sorta a touch n' glance typist. I do look at the board for some symbols. I think backlighting just decreases the time it takes to adjust focus when glancing down, so can be good for your eyes; or for quickly finding a seldom used function key, or for gamers using custom assigned keys, or whatever. If your job heavily involves data entry, you're obligated to train typing skills. If like most people your keyboard is a tool for personal productivity and entertainment, you're obligated to train nothing and it's the manufacturer who is obligated to train their keyboard design skills to suit you, if they want to sell their product. Enter: backlighting.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *skcheng*


I just picked up a Cherry Black board. I don't see how anyone can type with those switches. And it has an even heavier Cherry Grey space bar. It's almost painful for me to type on that keyboard.

I know Model M buckling springs supposedly require just as much force, but the feel is more crisp and precise in my opinion.

skc


Hrm, I'm actually enjoying my 2 Cherry Black KBs. I daily the drive the Filco Black as far as KBs go ( I primarily game though ). I do enjoy typing on this though, I was going to pickup a White Otaku Tactile Click, but with my father going to China this month, I'm going to probably pick up that Cherry Red or Brown KB ( maybe both ) instead. Plus, I've been spending monies on my new vid card and ssd setup.

I can understand the discomfort with typing with Cherry Blacks though, I grew more fond of them over time though.


----------



## skcheng

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


isn't that the guy who was selling 60 of them? did your Cherry G80-11900 come with lint too?









it's not hard to find a used Cherry G80-11900 for chi chi beans but that one is brand new









Christine



I could almost swear that mine is new, or almost new. By far the cleanest "used" board I've picked up and I'm up to 30 new keyboards in the last 2 wks LOL. Damn you Manyak














All of a sudden I'm in the biz of cleaning/refurbishing keyboards.

I've been trying it more the last few days and I pretty much hate typing on it. Must be my wimpy left pinky finger and even wimpier right thumb. That's okay, cuz the layout of the board is quite nice and the touchpad works "okay" in a pinch. Just kinda slow when you're used to a G9 mouse at the highest DPI setting.

Later on, I'll swap in some cherry brown springs (have a few donor boards) to give cherry reds a try.

But right now I MUCH prefer my nuts/bolts modified IBM Space Saving Mini or my Double Shot Filco Blue Tenkeyless.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Otterclock* 
Starting to think I may be one of those people. Of the mechanicals I think I preferred the white alps. But I keep coming back to my Cherry G83 rubber dome. One person's mushy is another persons smooth, I guess. I think that the noise and response of mechanical switches competes with my thoughts. For some, I can see how it would enhance them, even provide a cadence; but we're all wired differently. I do respect mechanical switches and their appeal.

Regarding touch typing: I'm sorta a touch n' glance typist. I do look at the board for some symbols. I think backlighting just decreases the time it takes to adjust focus when glancing down, so can be good for your eyes; or for quickly finding a seldom used function key, or for gamers using custom assigned keys, or whatever. If your job heavily involves data entry, you're obligated to train typing skills. If like most people your keyboard is a tool for personal productivity and entertainment, you're obligated to train nothing and it's the manufacturer who is obligated to train their keyboard design skills to suit you, if they want to sell their product. Enter: backlighting.

Well it's not really an obligation, it's like....kind of like learning to drive. Unless you're planning on being a trucker or something, you don't really have an obligation to drive at all. But being able to get around on your own makes your life a whole lot easier. Same thing here. Even if you only sit down on your PC like 15 mins a day, you'll be more comfortable and get things more things done within those 15 mins if you train yourself properly. PLUS, this way you won't be _dependent_ on backlighting as if they were training wheels on a bike.

And hey, even though you might not like mechanicals, at least you've learned quite a bit trying them out







. And hey, since you're sticking to rubber domes, you should give a Topre board a try







.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skcheng* 
I could almost swear that mine is new, or almost new. By far the cleanest "used" board I've picked up and I'm up to 30 new keyboards in the last 2 wks LOL. Damn you Manyak














All of a sudden I'm in the biz of cleaning/refurbishing keyboards.

LOL, isn't it so addicting? It's like.....trying sushi for the first time and finding out that you love it


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Topre is now available on Amazon.com.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Topre is now available on Amazon.com.

Yeah but look at that price...$280, vs the $230 for a 103 on elitekeyboards.com


----------



## Phaedrus2129

It'll come down. I expect it to be $250 with free shipping within a week or two. That's how these online retailers roll. Also, Amazon has a pretty good return policy, right? I don't remember. But it also removes some of the risk someone might feel buying from a site they've never heard of (EliteKeyboards).

Just saying that things could be looking up for these keyboards.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
It'll come down. I expect it to be $250 with free shipping within a week or two. That's how these online retailers roll. Also, Amazon has a pretty good return policy, right? I don't remember. But it also removes some of the risk someone might feel buying from a site they've never heard of (EliteKeyboards).

Just saying that things could be looking up for these keyboards.

Each seller can have their own return policy on amazon, it's got nothing to do with them. Check it out.

I'd buy from elitekeyboards before these guys any day of the week







.

But you're right, these boards have been getting more and more exposure recently and this only helps.


----------



## KipH

Update on the I-Rocks. I seem to have gotten used to the smallness on the left side but still bump a bit on the right, glad I have small girly hands









I find I am making more typos, but blame that on the speed my fingers are flying and may poor typing. I would benefit from learning to type, but I am lazy.

All in all I am very happy with it.

What would you think about using Auto Hot Key to swap the ? and shift keys? Would that help or bite me in the pinky?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


Update on the I-Rocks. I seem to have gotten used to the smallness on the left side but still bump a bit on the right, glad I have small girly hands









I find I am making more typos, but blame that on the speed my fingers are flying and may poor typing. I would benefit from learning to type, but I am lazy.

All in all I am very happy with it.

What would you think about using Auto Hot Key to swap the ? and shift keys? Would that help or bite me in the pinky?


You know, I had the exact same problem with typos on it, but I chalked it up to the same stuff you just did. I think I'm going to pull it out and measure the keys to be 100% certain.

And I don't know, try it out and see









Edit: Keycap size and spacing is the same as on the filco....So I dunno lol. Maybe it's just a coincidence?


----------



## -=R00bin=-

Whats the best way to type lighter? I keep bottoming out on my filco clickly tactile.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *-=R00bin=-*


Whats the best way to type lighter? I keep bottoming out on my filco clickly tactile.


You know how when you first learn to type, they tell you just to concentrate on hitting the right letters instead of trying to type faster? Same thing here. Concentrate on not bottoming out, even if you have to type really slow to do it. Before you know it your muscles will develop the memory necessary so that it becomes perfectly natural.


----------



## PhRe4k

Hello all, I'm looking into getting a mechanical keyboard for gaming and light typing.. I am in love with the Filco Majestouch but the price is a little much.. I am also considering the ABS M1. Is the M1 good enough for the price? Online it can be had for $40 shipped. I wonder, is the Filco really worth $100 more?


----------



## Otterclock

Quote:



Well it's not really an obligation, it's like....kind of like learning to drive. Unless you're planning on being a trucker or something, you don't really have an obligation to drive at all. But being able to get around on your own makes your life a whole lot easier. Same thing here. Even if you only sit down on your PC like 15 mins a day, you'll be more comfortable and get things more things done within those 15 mins if you train yourself properly. PLUS, this way you won't be dependent on backlighting as if they were training wheels on a bike.

And hey, even though you might not like mechanicals, at least you've learned quite a bit trying them out . And hey, since you're sticking to rubber domes, you should give a Topre board a try .


Well, the analogy I would use is the ability to gauge your speed and RPM without looking at the dashboard.







This is actually something I can do, but an illuminated dashboard is still helpful for most people. There's no arguing that full-on touch typing is a great skill, and one I admire. When it comes to plain ol' text, I have no issue there. Happy with my lil' 70wpm. But once in a while I'll play a game where I assign stuff to key/key combos that aren't traditional in normal use. Backlighting is nice in that regard. Plus when it comes down to it, backlighting is just nice lookin'. Nothin wrong with a lil' extra shiny, eh? You're right, though, it really isn't necessary.

I'm gonna get a typing tutor program and try to learn proper form.

I hear ya on the topre, believe me. Me wants. A lot. I recently added up how much I've spent on boards trying to find the right one, and it's enough for a Realforce and a half. I guess if I hadnt done that, I wouldn't know I wanted a topre, but now I have to chill out and put aside money for it bit by bit instead of plopping down $250 (er, sorry twocables, 250$). Also I want to wait for the "low noise" Realforce to become available.

I really wanted to like mechanical. It's just classier.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*


Hello all, I'm looking into getting a mechanical keyboard for gaming and light typing.. I am in love with the Filco Majestouch but the price is a little much.. I am also considering the ABS M1. Is the M1 good enough for the price? Online it can be had for $40 shipped. I wonder, is the Filco really worth $100 more?


The ABS M1 is decent and should meet your needs, but there are other to consider... For instance the Adesso MKB-125B and 135B, and the iOne Scorpius M10. But those all use MX Blue switches, which click. The click isn't as loud as most people thing; don't believe the BS about them sounding like a machine gun. The MX Blue switches are higher pitched and quieter than the buckling spring switches that started that myth (and they aren't that loud themselves). They're worth considering, but they could be annoying for gaming; the click from my Model M was distracting during games until I got my G84.

That's another thing to consider; a Cherry G84-4100 board. They can be had for extremely cheap on eBay, are very compact, durable, and are pretty good for gaming. Nothing great for typing, but still better than the average rubber dome. I like them for gaming because of the short travel distance (think like laptop keys, but much crisper), the quiet, and the fact that they keyboard is so small that my hands are more or less centered, and I can move it around easily to be comfortable, but it won't slide on its own.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PhRe4k* 
Hello all, I'm looking into getting a mechanical keyboard for gaming and light typing.. I am in love with the Filco Majestouch but the price is a little much.. I am also considering the ABS M1. Is the M1 good enough for the price? Online it can be had for $40 shipped. I wonder, is the Filco really worth $100 more?

the ABS M1 has a couple problems. if you start typing at a moderate speed yuo will see errosr like thsi. the ABS M1 was originally advertised as having USB HID 6+4 rollover but there is blocking because it does not use diodes and only certain combinations will output 5 or more keystrokes. ABS later removed this advertisement.

I think the $40 can be better spent on another mechanical keyboard. there are various used mechanical keyboards on eBay and if you're interested in Alps switches there is a Northgate Omnikey 101 for $30.

no windows key
complicated white alps (tactile and clicky)
steel plate
total weight 5.5 lbs
double shot keycaps
advertised as full rollover but I think this is over AT/XT I read on geekhack that with a PS/2 adapter it outputs a max 6 keystrokes.
I think it has some kind of repeat rate feature.
Christine


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the ABS M1 has a couple problems. if you start typing at a moderate speed yuo will see errosr like thsi. the ABS M1 was originally advertised as having USB HID 6+4 rollover but there is blocking because it does not use diodes and only certain combinations will output 5 or more keystrokes. ABS later removed this advertisement.

I think the $40 can be better spent on another mechanical keyboard. there are various used mechanical keyboards on eBay and if you're interested in Alps switches there is a Northgate Omnikey 101 for $30.

no windows key
complicated white alps (tactile and clicky)
steel plate
total weight 5.5 lbs
double shot keycaps
advertised as full rollover but I think this is over AT/XT I read on geekhack that with a PS/2 adapter it outputs a max 6 keystrokes.
I think it has some kind of repeat rate feature.
Christine


Thank you for the help







What about this model?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Alps-Mechanical-...item51914e6c92

Seems like a good deal, but there is nothing about n-key rollover :/


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PhRe4k*


Thank you for the help







What about this model?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Alps-Mechanical-...item51914e6c92

Seems like a good deal, but there is nothing about n-key rollover :/


you're welcome









the 6600 model has been rebranded under DSI and Solidtek. it uses simplified white alps (tactile and clicky) simplified basically means "fake" they are the original switches used in the Filco Zero. the n-key rollover is similar to the ABS M1 it will accept a minimum of 2 keystrokes to a max of 6 for certain combinations. the printing on the keycaps are pad printed.

Christine


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


you're welcome









the 6600 model has been rebranded under DSI and Solidtek. that keyboard uses simplified white alps (tactile and clicky) simplified basically means "fake". there is no transposition problem but the n-key rollover is similar to the ABS M1 it will accept a minimum of 2 keystrokes and output a max of 6. the printing on the keycaps are pad printed.

Christine


Ahh ok then, so for gaming there are better options right? I know that I want NKRO but at the same time I'm sure my wife would appreciate a decent typing board as well. Decisions decisions


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PhRe4k* 
Ahh ok then, so for gaming there are better options right? I know that I want NKRO but at the same time I'm sure my wife would appreciate a decent typing board as well. Decisions decisions









it sounds like rollover is going to be a issue with you so I think Phaedrus2129 Adesso MKB-135B recommendation is a good choice.









Cherry MX Blue switches (tactile and clicky)
apparently USB HID 6+4 rollover
Microphone/Headphone jacks
USB 2.0 Hub.
proadvantage has it for $70. I don't think you will find it any cheaper.

I hope someone buys it because there isn't much information on it. if you do buy it be sure to thank Phaedrus2129.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Otterclock* 
Well, the analogy I would use is the ability to gauge your speed and RPM without looking at the dashboard.







This is actually something I can do, but an illuminated dashboard is still helpful for most people. There's no arguing that full-on touch typing is a great skill, and one I admire. When it comes to plain ol' text, I have no issue there. Happy with my lil' 70wpm. But once in a while I'll play a game where I assign stuff to key/key combos that aren't traditional in normal use. Backlighting is nice in that regard. Plus when it comes down to it, backlighting is just nice lookin'. Nothin wrong with a lil' extra shiny, eh? You're right, though, it really isn't necessary.

I'm gonna get a typing tutor program and try to learn proper form.

I hear ya on the topre, believe me. Me wants. A lot. I recently added up how much I've spent on boards trying to find the right one, and it's enough for a Realforce and a half. I guess if I hadnt done that, I wouldn't know I wanted a topre, but now I have to chill out and put aside money for it bit by bit instead of plopping down $250 (er, sorry twocables, 250$). Also I want to wait for the "low noise" Realforce to become available.

I really wanted to like mechanical. It's just classier.









Well yeah it's nice, I won't argue there (though if it's _too_ bright it can be annoying). It's just a difference of _need_ vs _want_.


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
it sounds like rollover is going to be a issue with you so I think Phaedrus2129 Adesso MKB-135B recommendation is a good choice.









Cherry MX Blue switches (tactile and clicky)
apparently USB HID 6+4 rollover
Microphone/Headphone jacks
USB 2.0 Hub.
proadvantage has it for $70. I don't think you will find it any cheaper.

I hope someone buys it because there isn't much information on it. if you do buy it be sure to thank Phaedrus2129.

Christine

Ahh, that seems like a great keyboard







Not too expensive either, although it's just not as sexy as the Filco (even though they look similar, heh) Thank you lmnop and Phaedrus2129, + rep for the both of you


----------



## Manyak

^^^ Dude! You've got Lasers!


----------



## PhRe4k

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
^^^ Dude! You've got Lasers!

Haha, well that's not me so yeah


----------



## lmnop

there is only 1 cat that matters.










Christine


----------



## rfjunkie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reedo*


so folks, i have a cherry g81 7000 with these switches(see attached pics), and was wondering what the next logical upgrade for gaming and light invoicing (billing) might be. thank you for any and all help given.

P.S. i enjoy keys with quite a bit of resistance i bottom out they keys i have currently.

Thanks,
reedo


Did you get that keyboard off of eBay? I picked one up too just to try out... Don't really care for it yet... It's going to take me a while to get used to the linear switches it uses....


----------



## Phaedrus2129

MY switches? I wouldn't call them linear. More... exponential?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *-=R00bin=-*


Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


You know how when you first learn to type, they tell you just to concentrate on hitting the right letters instead of trying to type faster? Same thing here. Concentrate on not bottoming out, even if you have to type really slow to do it. Before you know it your muscles will develop the memory necessary so that it becomes perfectly natural.


Whats the best way to type lighter? I keep bottoming out on my filco clickly tactile.


R00bin,

To add to what Manyak said, I just want to say that the best way really *is* just to type "painfully slow" where you're basically savoring every keystroke while concentrating on not bottoming out at *all*. But instead of practicing this while doing normal typing, just use Notepad and type whatever comes to your head. I mean, just talk about stuff; talk about your day, your life, or talk about your keyboard. Just type stuff, but do it very slowly while making absolutely sure that NONE of the keycaps touch the body of the keyboard.

Another thing too is to make sure your fingers are warm. If they're cold, then it might end up being quite difficult and frustrating. I also recommend pulling your hands a little bit closer to your body so that your fingers feel straighter as opposed to having them very curled.

This typing method is very gentle. It's probably how you'd type if you were very, very calm, content, happy, peaceful, etc. One of my favorite things about not bottoming out is that it seems to showcase the beauty of mechanical switches, or the springiness.

Now, this will definitely take time. But practice in Notepad every single day, and you will eventually find that even your Spacebar isn't being bottomed out!

So yeah, practice makes perfect. But more importantly: *perfect* practice makes perfect. The way you practice typing is the way you will type when you're typing normally. So practice as though you have an extremely strict typing teacher watching you.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Otterclock*


Well, the analogy I would use is the ability to gauge your speed and RPM without looking at the dashboard.







This is actually something I can do, but an illuminated dashboard is still helpful for most people. There's no arguing that full-on touch typing is a great skill, and one I admire. When it comes to plain ol' text, I have no issue there. Happy with my lil' 70wpm. But once in a while I'll play a game where I assign stuff to key/key combos that aren't traditional in normal use. Backlighting is nice in that regard. Plus when it comes down to it, backlighting is just nice lookin'. Nothin wrong with a lil' extra shiny, eh? You're right, though, it really isn't necessary.

I'm gonna get a typing tutor program and try to learn proper form.

I hear ya on the topre, believe me. Me wants. A lot. I recently added up how much I've spent on boards trying to find the right one, and it's enough for a Realforce and a half. I guess if I hadnt done that, I wouldn't know I wanted a topre, but now I have to chill out and put aside money for it bit by bit instead of plopping down $250 (er, sorry twocables, 250$). Also I want to wait for the "low noise" Realforce to become available.

I really wanted to like mechanical. It's just classier.










hehehehe









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


MY switches? I wouldn't call them linear. More... exponential?


Does this mean that the resistance increases exponentially as the key travels down?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Does this mean that the resistance increases exponentially as the key travels down?

It's linear up to the actuation point and then exponential afterwards.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
It's linear up to the actuation point and then exponential afterwards.

Oh, of course. That makes sense now. Thank you, Manyak!


----------



## drjoey1500

Just saw a black AT101W on ebay (3 available, from what I understand these are somewhat rare). That's a pretty good price even for a white one. I'm almost tempted to buy one just for the keycaps







...must re-dye keys...must re-dye keys... *sigh* blank looks so much better.

Heck for $15 for a black one there's no reason to get an ABS M1 over this.


----------



## lmnop

nice find. that would be the 1999 black model. that is very cheap.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

R00bin (and everyone, really),

I forgot to say one thing that I have learned the hard way: don't allow the wrists to remain planted on the desk or wrist rest while typing. By allowing the wrists to hover a little bit while typing, you give your hands and fingers complete freedom. You don't have to stretch the fingers or angle them to the side a little just to reach certain keys. All you have to do is use your arm to move your hand a little bit so that your fingers are always easily positioned right where you need them quickly and easily. It sounds like it would be slower this way, but to my surprise, it isn't!

The hovering distance can be anywhere from 1mm to about 1cm. I mean, it really doesn't have to be that much at all. The idea is to give your hands and fingers total freedom to move as opposed to keeping your hands locked in one place.

I've been touch typing for over 15 years now, and I've read several things that discuss proper ergonomics that also explain why proper ergonomics should be practiced. But for some reason, the one thing I always avoided was hovering my wrists while typing because I was afraid of fatigue. But to my surprise, it's quite the opposite. I am enjoying this way far more than my old way of keeping my wrists planted most of the time while typing.

One of those things that I read was the Microsoft Healthy Computing Guide (which I actually found in Windows 7 just now by opening the Start Menu and typing *heal* for _"*heal*thy computing guide"_)_._ Here's an excerpt:

Quote:

Type with your hands and wrists floating above the keyboard, so that you can use your whole arm to reach for distant keys instead of stretching your fingers.
It also discusses using a light touch which is exactly what I've been practicing this past month ever since I got my Majestouch. The end result of practicing this light touch is that I found that the icing on the cake was allowing my wrists to hover as opposed to keeping them planted on my wrist rest. And the end result of doing so is that my hands feel better while I'm typing; it's as though there's more blood circulation now or something. But it's also easier to type with a light touch and therefore it's easier to type without bottoming out.

Now, I know that some of you will be telling me that everyone is different and that what works for one person may or may not work for another, but consider this: we are all the same species. Our bodies all work the same way; our bodies all have the same mechanics. So, it really doesn't make any sense for somebody to say that it's better to for them keep their wrists planted while typing as opposed to giving the hands complete freedom to move as needed while typing. But don't get me wrong: I understand how change like this feels: it took me about 15 years and a mechanical keyboard to finally figure it out.

I personally guarantee you that it's worth practicing typing while hovering your wrists a little.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I just rest my hands wherever. As a guitarist, I'm used to stretching my fingers oddly.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I just rest my hands wherever. As a guitarist, I'm used to stretching my fingers oddly.

Yeah, but that's different.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Yeah, but that's different.

Of course, just pointing out... Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. I'm a guitarist with agile fingers, so I can let my wrists rest and only lift them up for keys that are very difficult to reach, while someone with less agile fingers may want to keep their wrist elevated somewhat.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Of course, just pointing out... Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. I'm a guitarist with agile fingers, so I can let my wrists rest and only lift them up for keys that are very difficult to reach, while someone with less agile fingers may want to keep their wrist elevated somewhat.

Well, can you deny that we're all basically built the same and we all basically work the same way and have the same basic mechanics as one another? I mean, why else would all of these guides on ergonomics say that it's best to hover the wrists while typing? Not one of these guides I've seen over the years say, "but if you prefer to keep your wrists planted, then do the following...".

When I hover my wrists while typing, I am finding that I no longer have trouble typing certain words that almost always gave me trouble. Now they just flow and are a breeze to type; they're just as easy as the easiest words for me.

But hey: I don't blame anyone for not wanting to try this. It took me over 15 years and a mechanical keyboard to finally figure it out. I mean, the result of me buying this keyboard caused me to closely examine my technique so that I could make the most out of these switches (which to my surprise I am actually doing - I thought for sure I would slack off).


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Maybe I should make clear on what I mean by resting my wrists. I'll try and get a pic when I'm back on a regular keyboard instead of this ****ty laptop.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Maybe I should make clear on what I mean by resting my wrists. I'll try and get a pic when I'm back on a regular keyboard instead of this ****ty laptop.

Nah, it's not _that_ important to me. I'm just saying that I'm finding out why it is recommended to hover the wrists a little bit while typing. But I think that my "old" technique was that I would more or less slide my wrists around on the wrist rest, but I never actually lifted them up; not even by 1mm.

However, some people go to the extreme of really planting their wrists down so that their hands don't move unless they absolutely, positively have no choice (such as maybe pressing Esc). So, I suppose that this is more for them than anyone. But I wasn't like that and yet it's being a massively huge benefit to my typing, so I decided to post it.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Maybe I should make clear on what I mean by resting my wrists. I'll try and get a pic when I'm back on a regular keyboard instead of this ****ty laptop.

You need a Thinkpad!









Anyway yeah, I'm constantly switching between hovering and resting just depending on what i'm doing and how the keyboard is positioned. My desk is pretty high, so I can't really hover all the time. But when I really get going my hands will sort of naturally do it on their own without me thinking about it. I play the guitar too, so my fingers also can stretch in all sorts of ways







.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
You need a Thinkpad!









Anyway yeah, I'm constantly switching between hovering and resting just depending on what i'm doing and how the keyboard is positioned. My desk is pretty high, so I can't really hover all the time. But when I really get going my hands will sort of naturally do it on their own without me thinking about it. I play the guitar too, so my fingers also can stretch in all sorts of ways







.

The height of the keyboard is a great point. I'm lucky in that I have a nice keyboard tray, so all I have to do is adjust my chair height. I admit that I totally forgot that many people don't have a choice and have to have their keyboard higher than it should be.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
The height of the keyboard is a great point. I'm lucky in that I have a nice keyboard tray, so all I have to do is adjust my chair height. I admit that I totally forgot that many people don't have a choice and have to have their keyboard higher than it should be.

I've got a keyboard tray too, but I hate using it so I put it on a different side of my desk. When the keyboard tray is there I can't pull the chair up close, so I end up like 4 ft away from the monitors. There's also practically no room for a mouse on one.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
I've got a keyboard tray too, but I hate using it so I put it on a different side of my desk. When the keyboard tray is there I can't pull the chair up close, so I end up like 4 ft away from the monitors. There's also practically no room for a mouse on one.

Wow. I'm far more spoiled than I realize. With this keyboard tray fully extended, I'm not sitting too far away or too close; it's just right. However, if I want to eat at my computer, then I have to push the keyboard tray in most of the way.

I also have a very long keyboard tray, so there's room for like 2 keyboards and a mouse. So, I always keep random things to the left of my keyboard.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Question: will the trackball on the Compaq MX11800 function on modern computers, or only on ones running Windows 98 and earlier?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Question: will the trackball on the Compaq MX11800 function on modern computers, or only on ones running Windows 98 and earlier?

Why would it only work on 98? As long as your PC has a PS/2 mouse port it'll work just fine. And there are also USB adapters for mice, though I've never tried one.

But it's trackball sucks compared to the proper, standalone ones anyway. It's really small and doesn't move very smoothly.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I was wondering, because when you look up "Compaq MX11800" half the google results are people looking for a Windows 98 driver. Bizarre...

I'm interested because that solves my own keyboard tray dilemma. On top I have my G84-4100 and G500, which I use for gaming, and I have a lot of space to put papers or food or whatever. Below that on the keyboard tray I have my Model M and the coiled up cable for my headphones. Problem is, when I pull the tray out to type on the Model M I get the problem of either being too far from the screen--and my mouse!--or else having to scoot in too far, and then the keyboard is under the desk and I can't type well. I tried putting a second mouse down there, but it kept sliding on its own whenever I nudged the cord or bumped the desk.

So the Compaq is a good compromise. The MX Browns switches will be good for typing, and I can use the trackball while browsing instead of having to reach for my G500. Even if I don't like the Compaq's trackball I could pick up another one; just using the built-in one would save me $30.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 









I was wondering, because when you look up "Compaq MX11800" half the google results are people looking for a Windows 98 driver. Bizarre...

I'm interested because that solves my own keyboard tray dilemma. On top I have my G84-4100 and G500, which I use for gaming, and I have a lot of space to put papers or food or whatever. Below that on the keyboard tray I have my Model M and the coiled up cable for my headphones. Problem is, when I pull the tray out to type on the Model M I get the problem of either being too far from the screen--and my mouse!--or else having to scoot in too far, and then the keyboard is under the desk and I can't type well. I tried putting a second mouse down there, but it kept sliding on its own whenever I nudged the cord or bumped the desk.

So the Compaq is a good compromise. The MX Browns switches will be good for typing, and I can use the trackball while browsing instead of having to reach for my G500. Even if I don't like the Compaq's trackball I could pick up another one; just using the built-in one would save me $30.

I use an optical mouse, but yet I use one of those quality rubber mouse pads with the cloth top so that my mouse doesn't slide off. The cloth is slippery for the mouse, but it provides enough friction that it doesn't slide off easily on its own. I mean, it slides smoothly like its on wheels or something, but otherwise it takes quiet a bit of jarring of my already-tilted keyboard tray to get it to slide off.

Plus, the cloth on my mouse pad actually provides a superior tracking surface for the optical sensor as opposed to the semi-gloss finish on laminate paper stuff on the desk and tray. Plus, the mouse pad makes for a dead silent mouse as opposed to that sound of a mouse sliding on a hard surface. More than that, but the 'feet' on the mouse never get any wear.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I use a black, unmarked cloth-on-rubber mousepad that I got for free from someplace about five years ago.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I use a black, unmarked cloth-on-rubber mousepad that I got for free from someplace about five years ago.









Oh, I got mine back in 1998. It's a South Park mouse pad with Cartman saying, "It's a bunch of tree-hugging hippie crap!", and it's still in great shape. The rubber is especially good. I have even used it as a drumming practice pad.

I can't find mouse pads like this anymore though. They're all either thin rubber with like spandex on the top or something, or some kind of hard material.

Oops, I got carried away.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Yeah, the only thing wrong with this one after five years of abuse are some stains and such from spilled drinks or dropped food. They don't make 'em like they used to, eh?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Yeah, the only thing wrong with this one after five years of abuse are some stains and such from spilled drinks or dropped food. They don't make 'em like they used to, eh?










Yeah, I miss the good old days when I could go find these high quality, thick-rubber mouse pads for just a few dollars. But it seems like if I want to find one now then I'd have to take a picture of it and use that picture to ask people here on OCN where I could find one like it. lol

I admit that I'd rather have a plain black one that's exactly like my South Park one, but black. lol


----------



## Manyak

I dunno, I'm pretty happy with my Ripper XXL. It's very smooth and you never run out of room on it. And it holds up really well to abuse, I can tell you that for certain









What I'm _really_ looking for is one of these mouse clips I used to have, it's as if they disappeared off of the planet! It really annoyed me back then because mousepads were always tiny and it took up a ton of vertical room, but I never reach the top of the pad anymore so it would work great for me now:


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I dunno, I'm pretty happy with my Ripper XXL. It's very smooth and you never run out of room on it. And it holds up really well to abuse, I can tell you that for certain









What I'm _really_ looking for is one of these mouse clips I used to have, it's as if they disappeared off of the planet!











Yeah, thanks to wireless mice. I'll never go wireless unless they find a way for them to be powered wirelessly.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Yeah, I miss the good old days when I could go find these high quality, thick-rubber mouse pads for just a few dollars. But it seems like if I want to find one now then I'd have to take a picture of it and use that picture to ask people here on OCN where I could find one like it. lol

I admit that I'd rather have a plain black one that's exactly like my South Park one, but black. lol


Well, lucky you, I have a rare, collectible, vintage, semi-clicky mousepad that I can sell to you for $50+S&H.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Yeah, thanks to wireless mice. I'll never go wireless unless they find a way for them to be powered wirelessly.


Oh don't even get me started with wireless mice and keyboards. On an HTPC or laptop it's one thing, but at your desk? What for? Are you really so lazy you can't plug in a single wire or get an extension cable for it?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Well, lucky you, I have a rare, collectible, vintage, semi-clicky mousepad that I can sell to you for $50+S&H.










Oooooo!! Semi-clicky even! Hmm.... well, you know how much I like clicky things... hehe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Oh don't even get me started with wireless mice and keyboards. On an HTPC or laptop it's one thing, but at your desk? What for? Are you really so lazy you can't plug in a single wire or get an extension cable for it?


Exactly! I even got a little 1Â½ foot USB extension cable for my Majestouch just in case that 4.9 foot cable wasn't enough. It was, but I still used the extension cable just so I had the extra slack for peace of mind. Plus, I have the peace of mind of never having to replace batteries or having connectivity issues due to interference.

Oh, and plus: NKRO! Come on!


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I dunno, I'm pretty happy with my Ripper XXL. It's very smooth and you never run out of room on it. And it holds up really well to abuse, I can tell you that for certain









What I'm _really_ looking for is one of these mouse clips I used to have, it's as if they disappeared off of the planet! It really annoyed me back then because mousepads were always tiny and it took up a ton of vertical room, but I never reach the top of the pad anymore so it would work great for me now:











god your so analog









my cable technology is vastly superior than yours.


















Buy Me

Christine


----------



## Manyak

But that things so.....huge lol.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
god your so analog









my cable technology is vastly superior than yours.


















Buy Me

Christine

I used to have a couple of those and they work quite well, but the cable on my G9 has a smaller diameter than most standard/older mice and the bungee wouldn't hold the cable so I had to get rid of it.

Razer has a nice device called the armadillo, but it runs $20, which really looks closer to $28 shipped.
I'm thinking about giving one of these a try
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/industr...mouse-anchor/1


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


I used to have a couple of those and they work quite well, but the cable on my G9 has a smaller diameter than most standard/older mice and the bungee wouldn't hold the cable so I had to get rid of it.

Razer has a nice device called the armadillo, but it runs $20, which really looks closer to $28 shipped.
I'm thinking about giving one of these a try
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/industr...mouse-anchor/1


my func archetype 1030 has a cord clip on it similar to the one Manyak posted from circa 1972. when I changed to a granite tile I wanted a bungee. I looked at a couple including the Evo-G Anchor and Bungee, Roccat SDMS and Razer Armadillo series.










at first glance the Evo-G Bungee looks like it works on the same principle as the Mouse Bungee V2 but I don't believe there is the same level of flex. I find there is to much plastic and the flex it does have looks like it comes from a piece of aluminum.










the Roccat SDMS is a Bungee and USB Hub. I don't need a USB Hub or want to add more cable clutter. after looking at various Youtube videos of it in action (see below) I find it to be the most functional yet flimsy. the price tag was to sweet for my blood.






















the Evo-G Anchor is the most interesting. I find it to be a simple, low profile and sleek but it's basically a cord wrapped around a weight and uses that weight to prevent sliding on the surface.

the Razer Armadillo is in the same category as the Evo-G Anchor. this design is common.

<puts on a I







Beta T-Shirt for Manyak>

Christine


----------



## Manyak

lol......I still think the clip is the best one out of that bunch. All of these, besides possibly the evo-g, would get in the way of the view of the screens.

And by the way, I was just looking at the razer one earlier - apparently they made a new model that's easier to put the cable in and out but weighs only 150g (as opposed to the 300g of the old one). I'm pretty sure the tension in some mice cables can throw around 150g like it was paper (ok maybe not THAT bad, but at least move it). And the anchor seems to be even worse, at 135g. I just don't understand why anyone would care how easy it is to put the cable in, you only do it once and then leave it on your desk. Weight is way more important.

I just might pick up one of the old armadillos.


----------



## jshay

http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...edia-keys.html

Just wondering if any of you guys knew a good solution


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


But that things so.....huge lol.


That's what she said.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jshay*


http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...edia-keys.html

Just wondering if any of you guys knew a good solution










Nothing better than the response already there


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jshay*


http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...edia-keys.html

Just wondering if any of you guys knew a good solution










I think people would be more receptive to AutoHotKey if it was simpler. I thought about creating my own version last week when I was trying to force Anti-Aliasing in the nVidia control panel.

add/remove profile, find executable, on-screen macro recording, add/remove/edit macro.

Christine


----------



## KipH

How did we go from Keys to track balls to mice pads to cord holders? I am awarding this thread the off topic blue ribbon.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
How did we go from Keys to track balls to mice pads to cord holders? I am awarding this thread the off topic blue ribbon.









lol, well at least we're sticking to the general idea of the section it's in


----------



## lmnop

keyboards and mice are like peanut butter and jam, inseparable! you can thank the "lower echelon" members









Christine


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Got my MX-11800, loving the MX brown switches. I think after using these and buckling springs that the MX Blues are probably my ideal switch. I like the crisp tactility of buckling springs, but also the low-force of MX Browns/Blues.

Only problem: the trabckball won't work. I've tried it both through an adapter and straight into the motherboard, and it won't move the cursor at all. I'm going to try it without the G500 plugged in.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Got my MX-11800, loving the MX brown switches. I think after using these and buckling springs that the MX Blues are probably my ideal switch. I like the crisp tactility of buckling springs, but also the low-force of MX Browns/Blues.

Only problem: the trabckball won't work. I've tried it both through an adapter and straight into the motherboard, and it won't move the cursor at all. I'm going to try it without the G500 plugged in.


I prefer a track ball over a track pad but the hole in the face plate where the ball rests in is bigger than the ball and when the ball moves dirt is going to get inside.

why do you care so much about using the track ball?









Christine


----------



## Phaedrus2129

It isn't a huge thing, but it would be more convenient and ergonomic, since my keyboard is lower than my mouse.

I guess since the Compaq isn't clicky like the IBM I could use it for gaming, but I've gotten used to the G84 for that...

I just want it to work, ok?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


It isn't a huge thing, but it would be more convenient and ergonomic, since my keyboard is lower than my mouse.

I guess since the Compaq isn't clicky like the IBM I could use it for gaming, but I've gotten used to the G84 for that...

I just want it to work, ok?










ever use mouse keys? I used them for almost 3 weeks when I was a broke ass ***ka









Christine


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Mouse keys?


----------



## lmnop

in Windows XP go to Accessibility Options -> Mouse. 
in Windows Vista & 7 go to Ease of Access -> Make the Mouse easier to use.

on the number pad

press 4, 8, 6, 2 to move the pointer up, down, left and right.
press 7, 9, 1, 3 to move the pointer diagonal up, diagonal down, diagonal left and diagonal right.
press 5 to double-click
press + to right click.

you can set the speed and acceleration of the pointer. I got pretty efficient at it lol

how do you like the Compaq keycaps?

Christine


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I don't think I could stand that. I'll just hook in that Dynex mouse. *sigh*

The keycaps are pretty good. I can tell they're laser etched. I don't like them as much as I like the Model M keycaps, the contras isn't as good as dyesub'd caps, but it's pretty good.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I don't think I could stand that. I'll just hook in that Dynex mouse. *sigh*

The keycaps are pretty good. I can tell they're laser etched. I don't like them as much as I like the Model M keycaps, the contras isn't as good as dyesub'd caps, but it's pretty good.


the secret to flash games that require pinpoint accuracy is mouse keys.










you guys are more than welcome to try and beat my score. steven seagal has nothing coming to him! nothing!









Christine


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


How did we go from Keys to track balls to mice pads to cord holders? I am awarding this thread the off topic blue ribbon.










not sure how it started, but I want to go back to mouse bungees... I'm having trouble deciding which one to order!









and since you brought up mouse pads... has anyone seen the new Razer double-sided mousepad? It's supposed to have a side just like the Destructor, which I love and have a wrist rest...


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soloz2*


not sure how it started, but I want to go back to mouse bungees... I'm having trouble deciding which one to order!









and since you brought up mouse pads... has anyone seen the new Razer double-sided mousepad? It's supposed to have a side just like the Destructor, which I love and have a wrist rest...


Well if it helps any, I just gave in and ordered one of the mouse bungees (the one imnop has) and an Evo-G mouse anchor. If I need any more tension (it's a G9x, and the cord is pretty stiff) I'll pick up an armadillo v1 also. I couldn't figure it out either so I'm just going try them all, just like I did with keyboards lol.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Well if it helps any, I just gave in and ordered one of the mouse bungees (the one imnop has) and an Evo-G mouse anchor. If I need any more tension (it's a G9x, and the cord is pretty stiff) I'll pick up an armadillo v1 also. I couldn't figure it out either so I'm just going try them all, just like I did with keyboards lol.


try them all then sell the extras to me at discounted prices


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soloz2* 
try them all then sell the extras to me at discounted prices









lol, sure thing, if you don't mind waiting


----------



## KipH

Dear soloz2, Don't you have your own thread







If I replace my mouse caps will I get better sound?

I may have to come and have a word or 2 with yous guys. I have a $400NT mouse and a free pad that looks like a square of blue jean. I had a super duper slippery and stuff metal mouse pad, but did not like it much. I should sell it here


----------



## nijikon5

Heh, two of my ESEA-I TF2 friends just use masking tape to hold the mice cord down.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Heh, two of my ESEA-I TF2 friends just use masking tape to hold the mice cord down.


raggedy-ass gamers, love it









do you play in ESEA-I?

Christine


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


raggedy-ass gamers, love it









do you play in ESEA-I?

Christine


I was planning on playing TF2 w/Blight this season in ESEA( I think they placed 2nd overall at the ESEA Lan behind EG or coL this previous season ). Haven't been in the competitive FPS scene for 2 years now, It's still 50/50. I started playing Fighting Games last year when SF4 came out and with SSF4 coming out this month, I want to train for Evo ( being in SoCal, I get a lot of chances to play and learn from top Fighting Game players like ComboFiend, Keno, ComboJack, Mike Ross ect ect ).


----------



## rfjunkie

@Manyak.... I ended up getting that Cherry brown programmable keyboard off of eBay... I had a second chance offer on it. Not sure if I will end up using it. But it gives me something to mess with for under a hundred bucks... Cherry keyboard.


----------



## TwoCables

lol lmnop @ "circa 1972". I really did get a kick out of that.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


lol......I still think the clip is the best one out of that bunch. All of these, besides possibly the evo-g, would get in the way of the view of the screens.


Wow. How would that happen? I mean, I'm picturing now that your mousepad is at eye level and that you're standing at your computer. hehe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


And by the way, I was just looking at the razer one earlier - apparently they made a new model that's easier to put the cable in and out but weighs only 150g (as opposed to the 300g of the old one). I'm pretty sure the tension in some mice cables can throw around 150g like it was paper (ok maybe not THAT bad, but at least move it). And the anchor seems to be even worse, at 135g. I just don't understand why anyone would care how easy it is to put the cable in, you only do it once and then leave it on your desk. Weight is way more important.

I just might pick up one of the old armadillos.


I think one reason why people become concerned about how easy it is to put the cable in is due to frequent LAN parties.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jshay*


http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...edia-keys.html

Just wondering if any of you guys knew a good solution










AutoHotKey really is the solution. I recommend asking for help on AutoHotKey's message board. Or, just do some searching. It's very likely that you won't have to do any scripting at all or learn how to do anything.


----------



## TwoCables

Done editing. I didn't have any additional posts to reply to after all. But I hope that this is the last time that I start a reply without checking to see if there are more pages to look through.


----------



## lmnop

mmm smores keyboard.










Christine


----------



## TwoCables

hehehe










White chocolate.


----------



## lmnop

Christine


----------



## Izvire

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Heh, two of my ESEA-I TF2 friends just use masking tape to hold the mice cord down.












Been using this for years now


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Izvire*











Been using this for years now










I think I remember looking at that one. I don't think it's sold in North America.

Christine


----------



## olli3

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Izvire* 
Been using this for years now









Lol me too =D I've had one of those for as long as I can remember, works like a charm


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*











Christine


This possibly is the worst thing to look at first thing in the morning....

In other notes, someone should make a Mouse guide. I need something to link to that explains everything so I don't have to retype it.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Izvire*











Been using this for years now










Unfortunately it's not available in the US.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rfjunkie*


@Manyak.... I ended up getting that Cherry brown programmable keyboard off of eBay... I had a second chance offer on it. Not sure if I will end up using it. But it gives me something to mess with for under a hundred bucks... Cherry keyboard.


Congrats









Well, worst case scenario you can always resell it


----------



## v193r

why are topres (HHKB Pro 2) so expensive?


----------



## Otterclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
why are topres (HHKB Pro 2) so expensive?

Partly due to the technology used to make them, partly due to supply/demand that limits manufacturing volume, and partly due to them being able to exploit niche market customers with few options. My guess, at least.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
why are topres (HHKB Pro 2) so expensive?

After reading about the Realforce boards and the Happy Hacking Professional 2 boards on Elite Keyboards alone, I am left with the following impressions:

The Topre switches are much more expensive than the Cherry MX series.
The Topre switches are much a higher quality product than the Cherry MX series.
The Topre switches are apparently 100% reliable which leads me to believe that the Cherry MX switches are not. I'm partly referring to the part where it says, _"Topre's key switches have gained the acceptance of one of the world's largest airlines who use Topre keyboards exclusively for check-in counters where they require 100% reliability."_, and also where it says, _"Due to the VERY low incidence of failure in Topre switch-based keyboards; returns for repair ONLY will be allowed."_
And then there's the list of features:

60-Key *modified US ANSI Layout*
45gram sensitivity, 4mm travel Topre Electrostatic Capacitive Key Switches
Dimensions: 294 x 110 x 39.9mm (11.6 x 4.3 x 1.6in)
*Detachable USB mini-A interface, 1.8m cable included*
*Integrated USB 2.0/1.1 Hub (Current supply limited to 100mA)*
*Keyboard mode selection dip-switch*
Weight: 530g (1 lb 3oz)
Made in Japan
Blank key version available by special order.
So the ones in bold increase the price too. But I'm left with the impression that the main factor is the switch type. I think that if these boards had the Cherry MX switches, then they wouldn't cost much more than the Majestouch boards.


----------



## Manyak

The reason Topre switches are 100% reliable is because there is no physical connection that gets made (as with mechanical switches), therefore there are no parts that can wear out. The domes can still lose their feel over time (though they are still _excellent_ quality in that regard), but they will never stop actuating.

That being said, as a consumer it's almost impossible for you to reach the point where having capacitive switches over pure mechanical ones would have made a difference (other than your preference to how they feel).


----------



## v193r

well i guess ill just wait for the 6Gv2 or guru for my next purchase. Is there any other keyboard with the enlarged keycaps like the topre?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


well i guess ill just wait for the 6Gv2 or guru for my next purchase. Is there any other keyboard with the enlarged keycaps like the topre?


I think that those keycaps on the HHKB Pro 2 look enlarged because the board is so small. Check out the 103-key Realforce:

Black: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...&pid=rf_se02b0

White/Gray: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...&pid=rf_se0200

However, the keys are definitely a different shape.


----------



## Tator Tot

I'm not sure if anyone can answer this, but what prevents USB from having NKRO?

Is it that USB 1.x & 2.0 are Half-Duplex? I've pondered about this.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I'm not sure if anyone can answer this, but what prevents USB from having NKRO?

Is it that USB 1.x & 2.0 are Half-Duplex? I've pondered about this.

This post in the the OP leads me to believe that it's because PS/2 is interrupt-based as opposed to USB being polled. I am just assuming this based on the last 2 paragraphs.


----------



## Tator Tot

I just don't know for sure, it would make sense though.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I just don't know for sure, it would make sense though.

I don't know either. But this is a good excuse for me to type some more on my keyboard.







See, now I don't have to resort to jamming by myself in Notepad!

However, I'm really getting comfortable with the theory that it's all because PS/2 is interrupt based.


----------



## lmnop

ask Manyak I remember him mentioning he used to get his geek on in USB documents.










Christine


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


This post in the the OP leads me to believe that it's because PS/2 is interrupt-based as opposed to USB being polled. I am just assuming this based on the last 2 paragraphs.


That has nothing to do with it, there is no reason polling technology can't recognize more then 6 keys.

It's just the standard. They decided 6 keys was enough when they were writing the driver for the USB keyboard, so if you want your keyboard to be recognized when you plug it in, you will be limited to 6 keys.

Remember lots of game controllers go over USB, aren't interrupt based, and can have much more then 6 of the keys pressed at a time.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


That has nothing to do with it, there is no reason polling technology can't recognize more then 6 keys.

It's just the standard. They decided 6 keys was enough when they were writing the driver for the USB keyboard, so if you want your keyboard to be recognized when you plug it in, you will be limited to 6 keys.

Remember lots of game controllers go over USB, aren't interrupt based, and can have much more then 6 of the keys pressed at a time.


I apologize for being wrong on the internet.


----------



## Otterclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Well yeah it's nice, I won't argue there (though if it's _too_ bright it can be annoying). It's just a difference of _need_ vs _want_.

I'm starting to think I should pay closer attention to that. I mean, really I only need an $8 keyboard.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
I was planning on playing TF2 w/Blight this season in ESEA( I think they placed 2nd overall at the ESEA Lan behind EG or coL this previous season ). Haven't been in the competitive FPS scene for 2 years now, It's still 50/50. I started playing Fighting Games last year when SF4 came out and with SSF4 coming out this month, I want to train for Evo ( being in SoCal, I get a lot of chances to play and learn from top Fighting Game players like ComboFiend, Keno, ComboJack, Mike Ross ect ect ).

any experience even a terrible one is a good one







there are some guys in ESEA and CEVO that I played against over 10 years ago still playing Team Fortress.

Christine


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
That has nothing to do with it, there is no reason polling technology can't recognize more then 6 keys.

It's just the standard. They decided 6 keys was enough when they were writing the driver for the USB keyboard, so if you want your keyboard to be recognized when you plug it in, you will be limited to 6 keys.

Remember lots of game controllers go over USB, aren't interrupt based, and can have much more then 6 of the keys pressed at a time.

Wait, so it's limited by the OS drivers or the keyboard controller itself?


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


any experience even a terrible one is a good one







there are some guys in ESEA and CEVO that I played against over 10 years ago still playing Team Fortress.

Christine


Yeah, I've been playing TF games for over 13 years. Can't believe it's been so long! I actually visited one of my Q***/FPS buddies last month, he lives out in Indiana. Some of my best friends local and nationally I've met through FPS.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Yeah, I've been playing TF games for over 13 years. Can't believe it's been so long! I actually visited one of my Q***/FPS buddies last month, he lives out in Indiana. Some of my best friends local and nationally I've met through FPS.


great









Christine


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


great









Christine


Wow, can't believe I QuakeWorldTF got censored rofl... Didn't know W-T-F was censored :x.

Anyways, looking for likely I'll be playing with Blight for the upcoming ESEA season.

I also have a clip of myself playing the national runner-up for the GameStop SF4 tournament on youtube at a local tournament. Lol, kind of weird watching myself on a SF4 stream.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
Wow, can't believe I QuakeWorldTF got censored rofl... Didn't know W-T-F was censored :x.

Anyways, looking for likely I'll be playing with Blight for the upcoming ESEA season.

I also have a clip of myself playing the national runner-up for the GameStop SF4 tournament on youtube at a local tournament. Lol, kind of weird watching myself on a SF4 stream.

thats great, i'm happy for you









Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I'm not sure if anyone can answer this, but what prevents USB from having NKRO?

Is it that USB 1.x & 2.0 are Half-Duplex? I've pondered about this.


PS/2 sends key actions to the PC - keydown when you press a key, and keyup when you release it. Nothing else. So if you hit the entire keyboard it once, it will send 100-something scancodes (some keys have two by the way) along with a "keydown" event tied to each one. And then communication stops until you release one of them.

USB has to send a list of all the keys that you have pressed in _every_ packet, and the data for more than 10 keys doesn't fit.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


PS/2 sends key actions to the PC - keydown when you press a key, and keyup when you release it. Nothing else. So if you hit the entire keyboard it once, it will send 100-something scancodes (some keys have two by the way) along with a "keydown" event tied to each one. And then communication stops until you release one of them.

USB has to send a list of all the keys that you have pressed in _every_ packet, and the data for more than 10 keys doesn't fit.


Ah, that makes more sense than the polling or driver ideas.

Now, I'm not entirely sure on this, as it's scrapped together knowledge, but would there be a way to change this?

I know in Linux (and with Enterprise grade NICs) you can change packet management and size to suit your needs.

So with USB 3.0 (being Full-Duplex & greater bandwidth) would it be feasible to say with a driver you could change the packet size to support more?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Ah, that makes more sense than the polling or driver ideas.

Now, I'm not entirely sure on this, as it's scrapped together knowledge, but would there be a way to change this?

I know in Linux (and with Enterprise grade NICs) you can change packet management and size to suit your needs.

So with USB 3.0 (being Full-Duplex & greater bandwidth) would it be feasible to say with a driver you could change the packet size to support more?


Yes you can, but the keyboard's controller would have to support it also. But so far all the companies who have tried can't do it 100% properly. Even MS, for example, managed to get 17 keys at once (or maybe it was 24? I can't think of the number now) but once you hit too many it starts ghosting. That is, in the real sense of the word, where it sends extra keys that you aren't actually pressing.

One of the problems also is that if the keyboard requires a custom driver to work, then it won't work in BIOS or any other OS unless it also supports the standard USB HID driver. So that just makes things even more complicated.


----------



## Tator Tot

Yeah I see what you're saying.

It's always bugged me though, it seems like it could be done, but we're just not doing it right yet.

In other news, I through an old 300w PSU into my desktop so it can actually be online (and to rescue some files I needed.) And just that brief 15 minutes of typing on the Filco instead my my laptop....oh the love I feel.


----------



## TwoCables

Ever since I got the Tactile Click NKRO, I've been wondering what we'll do when PS/2 is eliminated. But now that I've read all of this, I think I'm no longer worried about it for I can see that we'll either be able to do full NKRO via USB, or perhaps some other technology will have been created.

But either way, I'm not wondering anymore. So Tator Tot, I'm glad you asked!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Yeah I see what you're saying.

It's always bugged me though, it seems like it could be done, but we're just not doing it right yet.

In other news, I through an old 300w PSU into my desktop so it can actually be online (and to rescue some files I needed.) And just that brief 15 minutes of typing on the Filco instead my my laptop....oh the love I feel.


I had trouble getting up from my computer last night because I didn't want to stop typing. I felt like a child who won't go to bed because he doesn't want to stop playing with his favorite toy.


----------



## Tator Tot

I'm not shamed to admit it. I only know so much because I know many a smart folk. I ask questions and keep researching.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I'm not shamed to admit it. I only know so much because I know many a smart folk. I ask questions and keep researching.

I was actually coming close to asking what will happen when the day comes where PS/2 is basically eliminated. But now I can see that we may have nothing to worry about. I admit that I don't really _need_ full NKRO, but it's peace of mind as well as bragging rights!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Yes you can, but the keyboard's controller would have to support it also. But so far all the companies who have tried can't do it 100% properly. Even MS, for example, managed to get 17 keys at once (or maybe it was 24? I can't think of the number now) but once you hit too many it starts ghosting. That is, in the real sense of the word, where it sends extra keys that you aren't actually pressing.


Was the ghosting a symptom of the matrix, as opposed to the driver? That seems more likely to me personally.

I hope someday they get it working over USB, I'd like to stop using ps/2.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

They claim it's the driver. From what I've seen the keyboard itself is NKRO; if it used PS/2 rather than USB it would behave just like an NKRO Filco. It's the Windows USB driver that causes the issue.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Was the ghosting a symptom of the matrix, as opposed to the driver? That seems more likely to me personally.

I hope someday they get it working over USB, I'd like to stop using ps/2.


Just to repeat what Phaedrus said, they claim they did internal testing and concluded that it's the driver.

Why stop using PS/2 though? It's still better in that it's faster, and that you don't have to take up a USB port for the keyboard. And it's also hot-swappable as long as there was a keyboard plugged into it when you first turned the PC on.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Just to repeat what Phaedrus said, they claim they did internal testing and concluded that it's the driver.

Why stop using PS/2 though? It's still better in that it's faster, and that you don't have to take up a USB port for the keyboard. And it's also hot-swappable as long as there was a keyboard plugged into it when you first turned the PC on.


Laptops. No PS/2 means one (or two if you count the mouse) less port to add on a laptop, thus more room for ventilation or USB ports or card readers, etc. Especially important for netbooks.


----------



## Crazy9000

I haven't seen a laptop with ps/2 in ages. Also it's easier to extend USB cable then it is ps/2.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Laptops. No PS/2 means one (or two if you count the mouse) less port to add on a laptop, thus more room for ventilation or USB ports or card readers, etc. Especially important for netbooks.


And when was the last time you've seen a laptop with a PS/2 port?









There's a difference between "I'd like USB to be improved so that I can get the same benefit as PS/2 on my laptop" and "I want to give up PS/2". The first one implies that you have no choice in the matter, while the second one means that PS/2 is still an option but you just don't want to use it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I haven't seen a laptop with ps/2 in ages. Also it's easier to extend USB cable then it is ps/2.


How so? I've extended PS/2 cables up to something like 3m and they still worked fine. If it's like, really long distance, you're better off using a KVM over IP (or something similar) with either option.


----------



## Tator Tot

I have a 4 foot PS/2 extension cable.


----------



## lmnop

I have 2 coffee mugs full of PS/2 adapters I have collected from '97 give or take lol

Christine


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I have 2 coffee mugs full of PS/2 adapters I have collected from '97 give or take lol

Christine

I could only find one... the one I was using with my FILCO last weekend when I was looking for a couple more.


----------



## lmnop

PS/2 adapters are...










Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Just to repeat what Phaedrus said, they claim they did internal testing and concluded that it's the driver.

Why stop using PS/2 though? It's still better in that it's faster, and that you don't have to take up a USB port for the keyboard. And it's also hot-swappable as long as there was a keyboard plugged into it when you first turned the PC on.


When you say _"as long as there was a keyboard plugged into it when you first turned the PC on"_, do you mean the first time ever? Or, just every day?

I'm using the USB to PS/2 adapter, and I've noticed that I can unplug my keyboard and plug it back in and it will still work, but the repeat rate and the repeat delay are both reduced to what feels like the default settings. But I checked the setting in the keyboard control panel and it doesn't change (I have both maxed out to the fastest setting), so I guess I could call this "partially hot-swappable".









I learned this when I cleaned my Majestouch for the first time: I unplugged it while in Windows, cleaned it, plugged it back in and then I wondered why both the repeat rate and delay were slow. Of course, I eventually figured out that it was because I unplugged a PS/2 keyboard while in Windows. hehehe But I immediately flashed back to the days before USB when this would have meant that I'd have to reboot in order to be able to use the keyboard again, so I guess I really appreciate the difference!


----------



## KipH

"_as long as there was a keyboard plugged into it when you first turned the PC on_"
= when you last turned it on. That is if you booted with it plugged in.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


"_as long as there was a keyboard plugged into it when you first turned the PC on_"
= when you last turned it on. That is if you booted with it plugged in.


Whoa, I just discovered something! Y'know how I said that if I unplug it and then plug it back in that both the Repeat Delay and Rate feel like they're reverted back to the default settings even though the keyboard control panel settings haven't changed? One thing I forgot to say was that only way I could get my preferred setting back was by rebooting. But not anymore!!! Check this out:

Unplug the keyboard (of course, I'm referring to USB keyboards plugged into the PS/2 port).
Plug it back in.
Open the keyboard control panel.
If your Repeat Delay is maxed out, then press the Up Arrow key, or the Right Arrow key.
If it isn't maxed out, then just click on *any* of the current settings without changing them.
The goal is to get the *Apply* button to activate.
Now click OK or Apply.
Now your settings are reapplied and everything is awesome.


----------



## PhRe4k

I wonder, do membrane keyboards that are PS2 or can be used with a ps2 adapter have any kind of key rollover?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PhRe4k* 
I wonder, do membrane keyboards that are PS2 or can be used with a ps2 adapter have any kind of key rollover?









All keyboards have some form of Key-rollover. Otherwise you won't be able to do CTRL+ALT+Delete or any CTRL + Key actions (like CTRL + V)

The difference is the number of keys and where the key rollover is concentrated.

Some keyboards have concentration of key-rollover on the WSAD area, while others might have it in a different location.

NKRO (as you read in the guide) means any number of keys, anywhere on the board can be pressed at the same time and all will register.


----------



## TwoCables

But can they have full NKRO?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But can they have full NKRO?


I would assume so, yes. I don't know if anyone has made one, but to my knowledge, Key-rollover is controlled by the board, and not the switch type.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I would assume so, yes. I don't know if anyone has made one, but to my knowledge, Key-rollover is controlled by the board, and not the switch type.


Well, I know it's not dictated by the switch type. But I'm asking the question to more or less point out that the keyboard must be designed to support full NKRO in order to have it. Unfortunately, it seems that it's more common for mechanical keyboards to support full NKRO than rubber dome boards.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I would assume so, yes. I don't know if anyone has made one, but to my knowledge, Key-rollover is controlled by the board, and not the switch type.


You're right, but with membrane keyboards it's not easy. You can't really solder diodes onto a membrane sheet - the heat of the solder will melt the sheet easily. So the only two ways for them to do it is to either 1) make them resistive switches (Sidewinder X4 style), or run one separate circuit for each and every key on the board.


----------



## salmasy

Whats a resisitive switch?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
You're right, but with membrane keyboards it's not easy. You can't really solder diodes onto a membrane sheet - the heat of the solder will melt the sheet easily. So the only two ways for them to do it is to either 1) make them resistive switches (Sidewinder X4 style), or run one separate circuit for each and every key on the board.

Oh I'm aware of this (the Sx4's design that is) though, there's other ways of doing a diode other than solder. But you're right, it's not an easy task for a membrane board.


----------



## nijikon5

Christine, is this the same model of the Cherry with DS key caps and Reds you linked a while back?

http://product.pcpop.com/000160633/Index.html

Dad is going back to China in 2 weeks and going to have him bring one back.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Christine, is this the same model of the Cherry with DS key caps and Reds you linked a while back?

http://product.pcpop.com/000160633/Index.html

Dad is going back to China in 2 weeks and going to have him bring one back.


yeah it is.

Christine


----------



## drjoey1500

I switched back to my AT101W that is still tactile. Man it's hard not to bottom out the keys. Is it seriously possible on these black alps? Are cherry switches any easier? It takes a lot of force to get the keys to move at all, and when they do it clicks and then takes basically nothing to bottom out.

I started trying to teach myself to not bottom out while typing a paper today, but I had to type insanely slowly, and still I have to flatten out my fingers some of the time just to get it right. So here I am shamelessly bottoming out the keys


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


I switched back to my AT101W that is still tactile. Man it's hard not to bottom out the keys. Is it seriously possible on these black alps? Are cherry switches any easier? It takes a lot of force to get the keys to move at all, and when they do it clicks and then takes basically nothing to bottom out.

I started trying to teach myself to not bottom out while typing a paper today, but I had to type insanely slowly, and still I have to flatten out my fingers some of the time just to get it right. So here I am shamelessly bottoming out the keys

















Well, with my cherry clear switches, there is a small force to actuate, and then there seems to be a greater force from there to the bottom. Makes it really easy for me not to bottom out anymore.


----------



## timw4mail

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


I switched back to my AT101W that is still tactile. Man it's hard not to bottom out the keys. Is it seriously possible on these black alps? Are cherry switches any easier? It takes a lot of force to get the keys to move at all, and when they do it clicks and then takes basically nothing to bottom out.

I started trying to teach myself to not bottom out while typing a paper today, but I had to type insanely slowly, and still I have to flatten out my fingers some of the time just to get it right. So here I am shamelessly bottoming out the keys

















It's the fault of the switch, the black ALPS are particularly difficult not to bottom out.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Christine, is this the same model of the Cherry with DS key caps and Reds you linked a while back?

http://product.pcpop.com/000160633/Index.html

Dad is going back to China in 2 weeks and going to have him bring one back.


they are not double shot they are laser etched but the keycaps are made out of POM.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *drjoey1500* 
I switched back to my AT101W that is still tactile. Man it's hard not to bottom out the keys. Is it seriously possible on these black alps? Are cherry switches any easier? It takes a lot of force to get the keys to move at all, and when they do it clicks and then takes basically nothing to bottom out.

I started trying to teach myself to not bottom out while typing a paper today, but I had to type insanely slowly, and still I have to flatten out my fingers some of the time just to get it right. So here I am shamelessly bottoming out the keys
















I have the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click which, of course, has the Cherry MX Blues. Even on this keyboard, the only way I can learn how to not bottom out is by typing extremely slowly and also by straightening out my fingers (or as you said, _flattening_ them out). Believe it or not, straightening out the fingers as much as possible is the correct way to type. Curling the fingers too much can actually be harmful over time (almost permanently). So you're doing everything correctly!! *Don't give up.

*_(What I mean by straightening out the fingers as much as possible is that at first, it almost feels like your fingers are perfectly straight. But the goal is get them as straight as possible while not literally being straight. Also be sure to avoid planting the wrists on a wrist rest or on the desk. Let them hover a tiny bit while typing - about 1mm or slightly more is all that's really needed.)_

I think it might be good to also just freestyle in Notepad (literally type everything that comes to your mind) to give yourself some more practice time as well as a different way to practice.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I have the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click which, of course, has the Cherry MX Blues. Even on this keyboard, the only way I can learn how to not bottom out is by typing extremely slowly and also by straightening out my fingers (or as you said, _flattening_ them out). Believe it or not, straightening out the fingers as much as possible is the correct way to type. Curling the fingers too much can actually be harmful over time (almost permanently). So you're doing everything correctly!! *Don't give up.

*_(What I mean by straightening out the fingers as much as possible is that at first, it almost feels like your fingers are perfectly straight. But the goal is get them as straight as possible while not literally being straight. Also be sure to avoid planting the wrists on a wrist rest or on the desk. Let them hover a tiny bit while typing - about 1mm or slightly more is all that's really needed.)_

I think it might be good to also just freestyle in Notepad (literally type everything that comes to your mind) to give yourself some more practice time as well as a different way to practice.

Really? Ok great I won't give up then. I was about ready to give up and buy something with cherry switches







. I was having a hard time getting them to not bottom out even with my fingers flat, I can't even imagine doing it with curved fingers at normal speed







.

That seems odd though, of course I've just always typed with my fingers curved I guess since that's the way it's done for piano (like holding a ball in the palm of your hand).

Once I can get this down, the tactile one will be much quieter...then maybe I can do some mods to it


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *drjoey1500* 
Really? Ok great I won't give up then. I was about ready to give up and buy something with cherry switches







. I was having a hard time getting them to not bottom out even with my fingers flat, I can't even imagine doing it with curved fingers at normal speed







.

That seems odd though, of course I've just always typed with my fingers curved I guess since that's the way it's done for piano (like holding a ball in the palm of your hand).

Once I can get this down, the tactile one will be much quieter...then maybe I can do some mods to it









Well, I guess I was saying that my fingers used to be more curled/curved than they are now. But the way I'm doing it now is straighter/flatter and my accuracy has improved. It also feels easier to type. But there does come a point where if my fingers are TOO straight, then it's slightly more difficult.

I would say that I'm trying to use the pads of my fingers as opposed to the tips. Making this effort seems to force me to use the best typing technique possible in order to maximize my speed and accuracy. But this is difficult if I keep my wrists planted. Hovering the wrists while typing also increases typing accuracy and speed because your hands have complete freedom of movement.

Here are some videos I found of people typing on Majestouch boards (hehe I love the Majestouch) who I feel have fairly correct technique, including hovering wrists.





























 (mute your volume first before watching this one and only watch until he stops typing which is basically the end of what I'm looking to show)


----------



## pawppy

any idea if I can do this on the sidewinder x6 detatchable NUMPAD only? thx


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pawppy* 
any idea if I can do this on the sidewinder x6 detatchable NUMPAD only? thx

uh do what?

Christine


----------



## airplaneman

Hey, I live in Canada and I want to get my hands on a Das Keyboard Professional or Silent but I kinda wanted to see it first before I drop ~$130 on a keyboard... Are there any stores that carry these so I can see it/try it out? I don't really have the money to buy a cheap keyboard to test, then buy one of these afterwords. If there are no stores, is there a Canadian retailer I can use so I don't have to order from the states and pay the insane customs fees?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I have a buddy in Toronto with a Das Professional S. Maybe I could put you guys in touch? He's up near Oshawa I think.


----------



## airplaneman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I have a buddy in Toronto with a Das Professional S. Maybe I could put you guys in touch? He's up near Oshawa I think.

That would be sweet, he lookin to sell? Oshawa is probably a 20-30 minute drive, so its pretty close.

Just found out NCIX has the Professional as well







.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

No, I don't think he'd sell it. He effing loves it and just got it a month or two ago.









But he might let you take a look at it, try it out, decide if you want one.

I have to go for a bit, but when I get back I'll IM him and ask if he'd be up to it.


----------



## airplaneman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
No, I don't think he'd sell it. He effing loves it and just got it a month or two ago.









But he might let you take a look at it, try it out, decide if you want one.

I have to go for a bit, but when I get back I'll IM him and ask if he'd be up to it.

Haha fair enough, that would be sick. Wouldn't be able to do it until after the 18th since I'm at school until then, but after than anytime works.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Just IMd him, he's AFK, but he should be on later. If he's interested I'll put you guys in touch.


----------



## airplaneman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Just IMd him, he's AFK, but he should be on later. If he's interested I'll put you guys in touch.









Alright, sweet, thanks!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pawppy* 
any idea if I can do this on the sidewinder x6 detatchable NUMPAD only? thx

We don't know what you're asking because we don't know _who_ you're asking. This is because you didn't use the Quote button







.

So, what are you asking?


----------



## Squeak

Sidewinder X6 definitely isn't NKRO if that's what you're wondering, and neither is the number pad apparently. I'm using one right now.

But they did tweak it to allow you to hold down WASD and not lock out the adjacent keys...

The number pad is not as nicely tweaked tho, although the detachability is awesome.


----------



## mondalaci

Hi guys!

First, I'd like to thank you this spectacular thread. No wonder that it's the number one result when googling for mechanical keyboards.

As the crazy inventor and project leader behind a revolutionary innovative mechanical keyboard that is currently in development, I try tap into every relevant source of information regarding mechanical keyboards and as you probably suspect this thread is quite a relevant one.









I try to not being overloaded with information but this thread gives me a hard time as it moves extremely fast. I'm currently left behind with about 20 pages and trying to catch up. My primary problem is that there is too much "noise". Every once in a while a newbie comes along, asks a basic question, it gets answered, then the same question gets asked by others over and over again until the universe (or the server) collapses. In other words it's rare to hear any new information from an expert's point of view. I'd consider the debut of a new mechanical keyboard a relevant piece of information for me, for example.

Basically all of this comes down to this basic question: Does anyone want to collect the relevant issues that are mentioned here? I think about a blog or a Google Group. If nobody wants to do it then probably I will but I usually look at this thread on a weekly basis and I thought that a native forum member might want to do it.

Not having an RSS feed is the other complaint of mine which is largely irrelevant for me if the former issue gets solved, but still annoying. I think that it's maybe possible to provide if using the http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ide-10000.html URL which redirects to the URL of the last page of the thread and then use XPath on HTML with Yahoo Pipes and make an RSS output from it. I'm not sure it will work, but maybe.

Laci


----------



## Crazy9000

What type of issues are you most interested in?


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


What type of issues are you most interested in?


Primarily new keyboards, specifically new mechanical keyboards. I'm also interested in any new technology (new switch type for example) that is related to keyboards. Keyboard mods and new companies selling keyboards or keyboard related accessories also sound interesting to me.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mondalaci* 
Hi guys!

First, I'd like to thank you this spectacular thread. No wonder that it's the number one result when googling for mechanical keyboards.

As the crazy inventor and project leader behind a revolutionary innovative mechanical keyboard that is currently in development, I try tap into every relevant source of information regarding mechanical keyboards and as you probably suspect this thread is quite a relevant one.









I try to not being overloaded with information but this thread gives me a hard time as it moves extremely fast. I'm currently left behind with about 20 pages and trying to catch up. My primary problem is that there is too much "noise". Every once in a while a newbie comes along, asks a basic question, it gets answered, then the same question gets asked by others over and over again until the universe (or the server) collapses. In other words it's rare to hear any new information from an expert's point of view. I'd consider the debut of a new mechanical keyboard a relevant piece of information for me, for example.

Basically all of this comes down to this basic question: Does anyone want to collect the relevant issues that are mentioned here? I think about a blog or a Google Group. If nobody wants to do it then probably I will but I usually look at this thread on a weekly basis and I thought that a native forum member might want to do it.

Not having an RSS feed is the other complaint of mine which is largely irrelevant for me if the former issue gets solved, but still annoying. I think that it's maybe possible to provide if using the http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ide-10000.html URL which redirects to the URL of the last page of the thread and then use XPath on HTML with Yahoo Pipes and make an RSS output from it. I'm not sure it will work, but maybe.

Laci

To solve the problem about not having an RSS feed, I recommend subscribing to this thread. To do so, perform the following steps:

Scroll to the top of any page in this thread.
Open the *Thread Tools* menu (it's right above the first post on whichever page you're viewing, over to the right a bit).
Choose *Subscribe to this Thread*.
You'll then be presented with a page that has 2 drop down menus and a button that says "Add Subscription".
Make a selection that best suits your preference from the first drop-down menu, and then click "Add Subscription".
If you choose "No email notification", then the only way to find out if this thread has received any new replies is to log into your Overclock.net account and view your *User CP* (or User Control Panel).

If you choose "Instant notification by email", then you will receive an e-mail every single time this thread receives a reply. This option is great for really slow threads.

If you choose "Daily updates by email", then you should only receive one e-mail message every day, or at least on the days when this thread receives replies. This option is great for busier threads where it might receive a couple of replies or more every single day (such as this thread).

But if you choose "Weekly updates by email", then it's like the Daily one, except I don't know if there's a set day for receiving the updates - but it would make sense to me that there is (like, it could be every Monday or something). I don't know what this option is good for. But I bet that there's somebody who knows.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mondalaci* 
Primarily new keyboards, specifically new mechanical keyboards. I'm also interested in any new technology (new switch type for example) that is related to keyboards. Keyboard mods and new companies selling keyboards or keyboard related accessories also sound interesting to me.

I have to admit that even though I am absolutely and positively in love with my Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO (yeah, I love typing it all out), I'd probably love it even more if it had separate media keys (an absolutely full set, including a mute button), a USB port or two up by the cable somewhere, and of course full NKRO is a must.









Oh, and I suppose a longer cable would be nice. This one has a 4.9 foot cable (1.49352 meters). It's just barely long enough for me, and I can't be the only one who feels this way. I even have it plugged into a 1.5 foot USB extension cable to give me some more slack.

I guess that's all I can contribute.


----------



## Crazy9000

If you want media keys, who don't you just use foobar, and assign whatever ones you want? I use num* to start/stop, and num +/- to skip songs. I can't imagine anyone needing media keys for video


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


If you want media keys, who don't you just use foobar, and assign whatever ones you want? I use num* to start/stop, and num +/- to skip songs. I can't imagine anyone needing media keys for video


Because Foobar is useless to me. Not only that, but I don't like its Graphic EQ. I also never listen to MP3s (so I'd certainly never listen to FLAC). Additionally, I don't care about this as much as it sounds.

But ultimately: I said *separate* media keys (like on the Lycosa or the G15).

This doesn't mean it bugs me that I don't have separate media keys. I honestly don't miss having media keys at all. But if I had them - and again, if they were *separate* (as in _not a part of the 104 keys_), then I guess I'd use them just like I did when I had the G15 and the Lycosa.

So, I'm not looking for solutions because this isn't a problem for me. I mean, I'm well aware of AutoHotKey too, but I haven't become interested in it yet because I don't really need anything like that yet.


----------



## Mygaffer

I recently got an IBM model M13 and have been reading up on it. Did you know the switches themselves aren't mechanical? They are buckling spring keyboards with membrane-sheet switches.
http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tec...ngspring_e.htm

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Because Foobar is useless to me. Not only that, but I don't like its Graphic EQ. I also never listen to MP3s (so I'd certainly never listen to FLAC). Additionally, I don't care about this as much as it sounds.


Why don't you listen to mp3's or FLAC? Also, what is so useless about Foobar, it should play whatever audio format you DO listen to, which I assume is CD's.


----------



## v193r

i just used my old dell keyboard again cause my friend was getting annoyed of my ABS M1 and I just falling in love with the feel. The Alps Black seem like to much force. I think im use this dell keyboard untill the 6Gv2 comes out. Do cherry blacks have less force than the Alps Black.

P.S on another note i am also switching from my Deathadder to my 3 year old IME 3.0. What is it with me and old gear?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mondalaci* 
Hi guys!

First, I'd like to thank you this spectacular thread. No wonder that it's the number one result when googling for mechanical keyboards.

As the crazy inventor and project leader behind a revolutionary innovative mechanical keyboard that is currently in development, I try tap into every relevant source of information regarding mechanical keyboards and as you probably suspect this thread is quite a relevant one.










I try to not being overloaded with information but this thread gives me a hard time as it moves extremely fast. I'm currently left behind with about 20 pages and trying to catch up. My primary problem is that there is too much "noise". Every once in a while a newbie comes along, asks a basic question, it gets answered, then the same question gets asked by others over and over again until the universe (or the server) collapses. In other words it's rare to hear any new information from an expert's point of view. I'd consider the debut of a new mechanical keyboard a relevant piece of information for me, for example.

Basically all of this comes down to this basic question: Does anyone want to collect the relevant issues that are mentioned here? I think about a blog or a Google Group. If nobody wants to do it then probably I will but I usually look at this thread on a weekly basis and I thought that a native forum member might want to do it.

Not having an RSS feed is the other complaint of mine which is largely irrelevant for me if the former issue gets solved, but still annoying. I think that it's maybe possible to provide if using the http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ide-10000.html URL which redirects to the URL of the last page of the thread and then use XPath on HTML with Yahoo Pipes and make an RSS output from it. I'm not sure it will work, but maybe.

Laci

If you can give me a bit of time, I will update the guide part of this thread (the first 10 posts) to include everything. Definitely including all new keyboards (at least the ones that can be bought easily, plus a few rare ones that are worth going after).


----------



## Ktulu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


If you can give me a bit of time, I will update the guide part of this thread (the first 10 posts) to include everything. Definitely including all new keyboards (at least the ones that can be bought easily, plus a few rare ones that are worth going after).


It would be nice also to have a little more information about the Dell AT101W. When I first started cruising through the thread it took me a while to figure out that the Dell AR101W is a cheaper and higher quality alternative to the ABS M1 and other entry level mechanical keyboards. Also maybe a rating of gaming an typing performance like you have for some of the other keyboards. An explanation of the ALPS switches would be nice also.

I hope my comments don't detract from my appreciation this thread. It is pretty much the defacto source of reliable information for mechanical keyboards on the net and I would have never thought twice about all the praises for mechanical keyboards if I had not read this article.

BTW I finally got my Dell AT101W and it is a great keyboard. It feels great and the speed which I can type on it now has increased significantly. I bought 2, one for me and one for my mom. I only received one, so the Ebayer who forgot to send me a second, will now send me an extra one for free.

Thanks for the recommendations!


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


To solve the problem about not having an RSS feed, I recommend subscribing to this thread. To do so, perform the following steps:

Scroll to the top of any page in this thread.
Open the *Thread Tools* menu (it's right above the first post on whichever page you're viewing, over to the right a bit).
Choose *Subscribe to this Thread*.
You'll then be presented with a page that has 2 drop down menus and a button that says "Add Subscription".
Make a selection that best suits your preference from the first drop-down menu, and then click "Add Subscription".
If you choose "No email notification", then the only way to find out if this thread has received any new replies is to log into your Overclock.net account and view your *User CP* (or User Control Panel).

If you choose "Instant notification by email", then you will receive an e-mail every single time this thread receives a reply. This option is great for really slow threads.

If you choose "Daily updates by email", then you should only receive one e-mail message every day, or at least on the days when this thread receives replies. This option is great for busier threads where it might receive a couple of replies or more every single day (such as this thread).

But if you choose "Weekly updates by email", then it's like the Daily one, except I don't know if there's a set day for receiving the updates - but it would make sense to me that there is (like, it could be every Monday or something). I don't know what this option is good for. But I bet that there's somebody who knows.


Thanks for detailing how the subscription system works, but not only I know it, I am also aware of its uselessness. I don't need to get notified when this thread is moving because it's *always* moving.







Perfectly useless.

Quote:



I have to admit that even though I am absolutely and positively in love with my Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO (yeah, I love typing it all out), I'd probably love it even more if it had separate media keys (an absolutely full set, including a mute button), a USB port or two up by the cable somewhere, and of course full NKRO is a must.









Oh, and I suppose a longer cable would be nice. This one has a 4.9 foot cable (1.49352 meters). It's just barely long enough for me, and I can't be the only one who feels this way. I even have it plugged into a 1.5 foot USB extension cable to give me some more slack.

I guess that's all I can contribute.


Well, you can patch the cable with another cable up to 5m according to the USB spec and even more if you use a repeater (HUB) to patch more cables but it's far from eloquent.

You could also buy a longer cable and replace the original. The Filco is much easier to disassemble than the Das and more importantly it can be disassembled without damaging it. Making the cable replacable by providing a USB slot instead of a fixed cable is the *right* thing in my opinion and I believe that Filco should have done this.


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


If you can give me a bit of time, I will update the guide part of this thread (the first 10 posts) to include everything. Definitely including all new keyboards (at least the ones that can be bought easily, plus a few rare ones that are worth going after).


Thanks, Manyak! I can truly appreciate all the work you put into this and your positive attitude, however I would rather prefer to have an RSS source so I could get notified whenever anything remarkable happens.


----------



## mondalaci

Oh, by the way...

I was thinking about something for a while. After we're done with the prototyping phase, but before mass production I'd like to have a Mechanical Keyboard Mastermind Group and I'd like to send each members of the group one of our protypes to test.

The group members I was thinking about: Manyak, Ripster from Geekhack and Marco C. from Hot Hardware. Based on what I've read they are the most hardcore mechanical keyboard experts. Do you know about anyone else who is, well, very dangerous?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I've done a number of dissections, and am currently investigating the possibility of review samples from Adesso and Thermaltake. I'd love to open up a prototype.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mondalaci*


Oh, by the way...

I was thinking about something for a while. After we're done with the prototyping phase, but before mass production I'd like to have a Mechanical Keyboard Mastermind Group and I'd like to send each members of the group one of our protypes to test.

The group members I was thinking about: Manyak, Ripster from Geekhack and Marco C. from Hot Hardware. Based on what I've read they are the most hardcore mechanical keyboard experts. Do you know about anyone else who is, well, very dangerous?










Not to toote my own horn, but I've got a number of boards to compare against one another. Which I've already done some of.

Though, TwoCables, Phaedrus, Manyak, & Imnop (Christine) would all probably be people to look at as well.

Obviously Manyak knows his blow. But Phaedrus & Imnop have plenty of experience and knowledge about boards as well (which can be witnessed in this thread.) And TwoCables plans to marry his Filco next summer. He's just waiting for the diamonds right now.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mygaffer* 
I recently got an IBM model M13 and have been reading up on it. Did you know the switches themselves aren't mechanical? They are buckling spring keyboards with membrane-sheet switches.
http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_bucklingspring_e.htm

Why don't you listen to mp3's or FLAC? Also, what is so useless about Foobar, it should play whatever audio format you DO listen to, which I assume is CD's.

Again, one of the reasons why I don't like Foobar is because I don't like its Graphic EQ at all. There are other things I hated about Foobar, but I've already made up my mind about this program, so that's all am going to say about it. But, I have given my best effort to like it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Not to toote my own horn, but I've got a number of boards to compare against one another. Which I've already done some of.

Though, TwoCables,

While I have nothing but time on my hands, I don't think I'm a good candidate because my only basis for comparison (when it comes to mechanical keyboards) is the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Phaedrus, Manyak, & Imnop (Christine)

It's LMNOP, as in the Alphabet Song. Notice how you can see the capital "I" when typing "Imnop" as opposed to using a lower-case "L": "lmnop".

She should just put something about this in her signature.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
would all probably be people to look at as well.

Obviously Manyak knows his blow. But Phaedrus & Imnop have plenty of experience and knowledge about boards as well (which can be witnessed in this thread.)

I wholeheartedly agree!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
And TwoCables plans to marry his Filco next summer. He's just waiting for the diamonds right now.









They're on layaway! LOL


----------



## Tator Tot

Ah, my mistake. I do that often though. I see a l and think I.

Thanks for the catch man









Makes more sense now too


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Again, one of the reasons why I don't like Foobar is because I don't like its Graphic EQ at all. There are other things I hated about Foobar, but I've already made up my mind about this program, so that's all am going to say about it. But, I have given my best effort to like it.


One good reason to use foobar2000. WASAPI.

Don't use the EQ though, IIRC it's terrible. I think you might be able to download a separate EQ, maybe even a parametric EQ if you're a perfectionist







. I've stopped using EQ's though since I got my newest headphones. No longer necessary. I could fine tune a parametric EQ, but I'm too lazy, at least until I get a half-decent source.

/Off topic


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Ah, my mistake. I do that often though. I see a l and think I.

Thanks for the catch man









Makes more sense now too









Oh well now I'm embarrassed. Picture this in slow motion: I read "I see a l", and I literally read the lower-case L as an upper-case I. So it went, "I see a I and think I".









lol









Quote:


Originally Posted by *drjoey1500* 
One good reason to use foobar2000. WASAPI.

Don't use the EQ though, IIRC it's terrible. I think you might be able to download a separate EQ, maybe even a parametric EQ if you're a perfectionist







. I've stopped using EQ's though since I got my newest headphones. No longer necessary. I could fine tune a parametric EQ, but I'm too lazy, at least until I get a half-decent source.

/Off topic

It's not worth it. I don't have headphones. I have Altec Lansing's VS4121s. In fact, I never use headphones; only speakers.

There's nobody on this planet who will be able to get me to try Foobar again because I already gave it my best effort and it's just not for me. This isn't like those people who try mechanical keyboards and say that they don't like them because they're noisy or something weak like that.


----------



## lmnop

this is all Manyak's hard work and he deserves to test a prototype. i'm flattered my name was mentioned but I just man the store while he is gone... except sometimes the store is on fire when he comes back but we are not going to talk about that









Christine


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Ah, my mistake. I do that often though. I see a l and think I.

Thanks for the catch man









Makes more sense now too









abcdefghijk*lmnop*qrstuvwxyz.

Christine


----------



## KipH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
abcdefghijk*lmnop*qrstuvwxyz.

Christine

I thought your name was nop. As in "I'm Nop."


----------



## Tator Tot

I'm not alone! The Madness is spreading!


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I'm not alone! The Madness is spreading!










For some reason it's just the way that reads. I naturally thought "I" instead of "l".

I thought at first that it might have been "Im n op", but that didn't make much sense. I can't believe that the correct answer was so damn obvious. . . perhaps I should partake in some alphabet soup to help rid me of this hand that is now stuck to my head.








+ alphabet soup = [/facepalm]


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Not to toote my own horn, but I've got a number of boards to compare against one another. Which I've already done some of.

Though, TwoCables, Phaedrus, Manyak, & Imnop (Christine) would all probably be people to look at as well.

Obviously Manyak knows his blow. But Phaedrus & Imnop have plenty of experience and knowledge about boards as well (which can be witnessed in this thread.) And TwoCables plans to marry his Filco next summer. He's just waiting for the diamonds right now.

Thanks for the list! I'll consider everybody who's mentioned but members with the vast amount of posts are the most probable candidates and Manyak is surely in, of course









I'd like to have a really professional group, but the number of prototypes must be limited as state-of-the-art 3D printing is bloody expensive.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mondalaci* 
Thanks for the list! I'll consider everybody who's mentioned but members with the vast amount of posts are the most probable candidates and Manyak is surely in, of course









I'd like to have a really professional group, but the number of prototypes must be limited as state-of-the-art 3D printing is bloody expensive.

If you consider me at all, then my only basis for comparison is 1 mechanical keyboard: the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO.


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

have any of you guys tried to sleeve the cables of these keyboards? I did a practice sleeve on my dell keyboard :facepalm: and looks better.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234* 
have any of you guys tried to sleeve the cables of these keyboards? I did a practice sleeve on my dell keyboard :facepalm: and looks better.

It's : doh :


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
It's : doh :









But sometimes, :facepalm: just says it all even though it doesn't produce a smiley.

However, check this out:










http://www.houston-imports.com/forum...s/facepalm.gif


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mondalaci*


Thanks for the list! I'll consider everybody who's mentioned but members with the vast amount of posts are the most probable candidates and Manyak is surely in, of course









I'd like to have a really professional group, but the number of prototypes must be limited as state-of-the-art 3D printing is bloody expensive.


one person you might not want to leave out of consideration is wellington1869 over at geekhack. if you want someone intelligent, experienced and OCD he is your guy. hes written a couple articles on the Costar transposition problem, Topre wiki and some youtube videos.

Christine


----------



## Toploaded

Great thread, helped me decide on my Cherry blue that's on it's way to me. Thanks again to the original poster, I had no idea about these things before.


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


one person you might not want to leave out of consideration is wellington1869 over at geekhack. if you want someone intelligent, experienced and OCD he is your guy. hes written a couple articles on the Costar transposition problem, Topre wiki and some youtube videos.

Christine


Thank you very much for the suggestion. He's on the list of the possible candidates from now on.


----------



## clownfart

:0 Placed an order on one set of these. I'll trade/sell one of the keys if anyone is interested. Would be sweet to have one that says "OVER CLOCK"


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The first set is for Geekhack members predating the thread, only. So the rest of y'all will have to wait for the second set. But it is an intriguing offer, and I think worth picking up on.


----------



## drjoey1500

Do any of you know if there is an easy way to remove the letters from pad printed keycaps? Just thinking about getting another keyboard for my laptop, and it might look nice with blank keys.


----------



## W4LNUT5

I prefer my skull and crossbones ESC key that came with my deck.









But I'd rock an OCN flame any day


----------



## tomclancey

I have a very old Canon ALPS (The switch color is blue, however) mechanical keyboard with a DIN5 plug. It's from a Canon Navigator, so it's about 20 years old. The switches say "ALPS" on just under the plunger, but still on top of the switch. In the top left corner there is an "M". In the top left there is a "7A". (That's on the left arrow key. On the right arrow key it says "7D".)

Anybody know how to go about making it work on my computer? I've got Windows 7 32-bit.

I have both a DIN5 to MiniDIN6 and a MiniDIN6 to USB adapter. When I plug in just the DIN5 to MiniDIN6 I don't get any response at all, but the NUM/CAP/SCROLL Lock keys all work. When I use both adapters and plug into USB, Windows makes the connection sound and the keyboard shows up under device manager, but again, no response. (I have also booted up with the keyboard in both the PS/2 and USB slots. Still not dice.)


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tomclancey* 
I have a very old Canon ALPS (The switch color is blue, however) mechanical keyboard with a DIN5 plug. It's from a Canon Navigator, so it's about 20 years old. The switches say "ALPS" on just under the plunger, but still on top of the switch. In the top left corner there is an "M". In the top left there is a "7A". (That's on the left arrow key. On the right arrow key it says "7D".)

Anybody know how to go about making it work on my computer? I've got Windows 7 32-bit.

I have both a DIN5 to MiniDIN6 and a MiniDIN6 to USB adapter. When I plug in just the DIN5 to MiniDIN6 I don't get any response at all, but the NUM/CAP/SCROLL Lock keys all work. When I use both adapters and plug into USB, Windows makes the connection sound and the keyboard shows up under device manager, but again, no response. (I have also booted up with the keyboard in both the PS/2 and USB slots. Still not dice.)

I did some digging, here are my findings.
http://zevv.nl/play/misc/ibm-usb/
(taken from here)

Apparently the original link is for ps/2 to usb, not din5


----------



## tomclancey

I don't think that would work, seeing as my keyboard is DIN5. (AT)

Sorry if I was misleading in my post.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tomclancey* 
I don't think that would work, seeing as my keyboard is DIN5. (AT)

Sorry if I was misleading in my post.

no i see that. I posted the link I had found (that had been posted as a response to someone else's din5->modern pc question). I hadn't fully gone through it before posting, and I edited my post thereafter.

I'll let you know if I find anything.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *drjoey1500* 
Do any of you know if there is an easy way to remove the letters from pad printed keycaps? Just thinking about getting another keyboard for my laptop, and it might look nice with blank keys.

Bump for a good question, although I believe that it might be much easier to find blank key caps that fit the AT101W.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Bump for a good question, although I believe that it might be much easier to find blank key caps that fit the AT101W.


Actually I was referring to my thinkpad's built in keyboard. The dell's keys are laser etched (but I would be interested if blank alps keycaps exist).


----------



## clownfart

Well I don't think there is a way to remove them with chemicals(without melting the key), unless it's a very cheap or old key.

Best way probably is to sandblast the keys. Personally I rather get a blank set.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *drjoey1500* 
Do any of you know if there is an easy way to remove the letters from pad printed keycaps? Just thinking about getting another keyboard for my laptop, and it might look nice with blank keys.

I don't think so, not without damaging the plastic. you need a solvent strong enough to strip the pad printing but not strong enough to warp the structural integrity of the plastic.

by the time it's done the keycap is probably going to have a bleached look because the pigment they add to the plastic to give it color is probably going to be stripped or at least inconsistent.

sand blasting is expensive.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *drjoey1500* 
Actually I was referring to my thinkpad's built in keyboard. The dell's keys are laser etched (but I would be interested if blank alps keycaps exist).

if you take a safety pin and stroke the sharp end across a laser etched keycap it will leave a scratch through it, do it enough times and you can file it off but the surface is going to be scratched even if you paint over it.

I don't know where to buy blank Alps keycaps







however you could purchase this or a set of these they are for touch typing.

Christine


----------



## Ktulu

If you wanted to have black keys, why wouldn't you just spray paint them?


----------



## RayvinAzn

I think I just found my dream board:









Granted I don't like the JP layout, but the black housing with yellow keys and black WASD looks badass. If I ever get the scratch together for the Realforce 87U 55g like I want, I absolutely must score a set of yellow keys.


----------



## Ktulu

That keyboard is certainly boss! I hope mine looks that good when I spray paint it >< haha. If it comes close I would be happy, that is really nice.

Not to detract from the coolness of it, but I think I saw it in a Stryper video once...


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ktulu*


If you wanted to have black keys, why wouldn't you just spray paint them?


show me a painted keycap that looks good.

Christine


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clownfart* 
Well I don't think there is a way to remove them with chemicals(without melting the key), unless it's a very cheap or old key.

Best way probably is to sandblast the keys. Personally I rather get a blank set.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I don't think so, not without damaging the plastic. you need a solvent strong enough to strip the pad printing but not strong enough to warp the structural integrity of the plastic.

by the time it's done the keycap is probably going to have a bleached look because the pigment they add to the plastic to give it color is probably going to be stripped or at least inconsistent.

sand blasting is expensive.

if you take a safety pin and stroke the sharp end across a laser etched keycap it will leave a scratch through it, do it enough times and you can file it off but the surface is going to be scratched even if you paint over it.

I don't know where to buy blank Alps keycaps







however you could purchase this or a set of these they are for touch typing.

Christine

Thanks for the ideas. Acetone worked on an old keyboard, but like you said, it doesn't leave the key looking very clean. If you let it stay on the key too long it starts messing up the key







.

My other idea is sanding down the key with fine grit sandpaper, but that will take away the texture.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ktulu* 
If you wanted to have black keys, why wouldn't you just spray paint them?

Spray paint comes off sometimes (and depending on your skill it goes on uneven). I may end up doing that once I get better at painting, and find a satisfactory matte clearcoat. Once spray paint starts coming off it gets messy.

The dell I'll probably just try to dye again. If it comes out uneven I might paint it instead.

...If at first you do not succeed, try dying again...


----------



## Ktulu

Quote:


Originally Posted by *drjoey1500* 
...If at first you do not succeed, try dying again...









Pip Pip Good Ol' Boy, you can die trying or try dyeing hmmhmhmhmhmhmhmhm...

So a clear coat over the paint would help the paint to stick? I am assuming you sanded first and used something like Krylon fusion which bonds to plastic. I would think the clear coat would come off too, but I guess clear is better than paint.


----------



## cp2010

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
if you're going to order overseas I would seriously shift attention to the Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-* instead it only costs 1099 Taiwan Dollar ($34 USD)

G80-3494LYCUS-0 (White)
Polystyrol Casing
PBT (Polyester) Key Caps
Printing is Laser Etched
Backplate

G80-3494LYCUS-2 (Black)
ABS Casing
POM (Delrin) Key Caps
Printing is Laser Etched
Backplate

White version has Nubs on F, J and 5 Keys. Black version has Sloped F and J Keys and a Nip on the 5 Key.

note: I am pretty sure the Cherry G80-3600LYCEU-0 (White) and Cherry G80-3600LYCEU-2 (Black) are the same models with some minor aesthetic differences.

Cherry Logo is now Laser Etched and Painted on the 3494
Status LED indicators are now Blue instead of Green on the 3494

the reason they use POM in the Black version is because the White lettering shows up better. POM is very strong, rigid and expensive. in terms of texture it is more slippery than PBT.

Cherry MX Red switches are Linear (non-tactile, non-clicky) they are similar to the Cherry MX Black Linear but only require 45g of force to actuate and 60g of force to bottom out because they use a weaker spring. in the 3 reviews I read all 3 of them had one thing in common they mentioned the Topre RealForce in some shape or form so they should be significantly better to type with.

the Cherry G80 Classic Line that uses Cherry MX Blue, Brown and Black switches (G80-3000LSCRC-*, G80-3000LXCEU-*, G80-3000LPCEU-*) are widely available in a lot of countries but are not as solidly built, for example they are PCB mounted, rollover is only 2 n-Key rollover and they cost 60-100 depending on the country and currency.

pretty...


















sculpted 104 US layout


















that's not a knife. this is a knife! I mean Key Cap.










Blue LED










Cherry Stabilizers










Rollover is 6+4 in USB and 78 in PS/2 (Full) Cherry 1, Microsoft 0


















for high quality photos of both models see here.

Christine

Hi Christine,

I'm very interested in a Cherry MX Red board. From what I've gathered, so far, only Cherry makes such boards. The choices being the 3600 and the 3494. May I ask, what is the true difference between these two boards? I'm in Canada and I will need to import so it is important to make sure I get the "right" MX Red keyboard. Most of my concern has to do with NKRO. Are they actually the same board or does one of them only have 2KRO?


----------



## lmnop

I should of changed that. the currency is wrong it's not $34 US. the retailer is in Taiwan but instead of Taiwan dollar, Yuan. you can order one with the help of Kip69 and have it shipped for no less than $170-175 US.

not sure if they have the same controller but they are both full n-key rollover. the differences are aesthetics.

3600 has adhesive Cherry Logo and Green LED
3494 has laser etched Cherry Logo and Blue LED.

I recently noticed on the 3494 black model, the characters that are laser etched are thicker than the ones on the 3494 white model. i'm not sure if all Cherry Black keyboards are like this. you can tell by looking at the curves in the numbers 9, 6, 4, etc


















I think that's it.

in a review I think the translation said Cherry decided to change the status led indicators because Blue is easier on the eyes and a little more up to date.

here is some Cherry porn and the force graph.


















Christine


----------



## W4LNUT5

Did you guys see the $20 w/free-ship ABS M1 yet? It's a really good price, even if it is just an M1

http://www.overclock.net/online-deal...-hd-pro-3.html


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Did you guys see the $20 w/free-ship ABS M1 yet? It's a really good price, even if it is just an M1

http://www.overclock.net/online-deal...-hd-pro-3.html

im planning getting the filco this summer when i hit $150 in saving... but should i get this now instead and then get filco?


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234* 
im planning getting the filco this summer when i hit $150 in saving... but should i get this now instead and then get filco?

If you're unsure if you'll like a mechanical keyboard, this may be the way to go. It's only middle of the road as far as mechanical keyboards are concerned (quality, feel, etc), but for $20 it's a steal


----------



## yawnbox

the ABS M1 link doesn't work...
Switch Type: Black Alps Copies


----------



## Ktulu

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
show me a painted keycap that looks good.

Christine

http://joshcarter.com/miscellany/how..._your_keyboard


----------



## Iceman0803

Got my new Filco tenkeyless with cherry blues today and I love it! The smaller form factor is nice especially as it gives me more room for my mouse. Because of this I'm no longer bumping into my pc case with my mouse (happened more so while gaming with my 104 key Filco) Strangely the blues in my tenkeyless feel just a bit more stiff than the blues in my 104 key Filco ever did, which is not a bad thing. Also, it's probably going to take a day or two to adjust to the absence of the numpad but I don't see it being a big issue. So far I'm a happy man. Let's just hope it lasts longer than my 104 key Filco did.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Iceman0803* 
Got my new Filco tenkeyless with cherry blues today and I love it! The smaller form factor is nice especially as it gives me more room for my mouse. Because of this I'm no longer bumping into my pc case with my mouse (happened more so while gaming with my 104 key Filco) Strangely the blues in my tenkeyless feel just a bit more stiff than the blues in my 104 key Filco ever did, which is not a bad thing. Also, it's probably going to take a day or two to adjust to the absence of the numpad but I don't see it being a big issue. So far I'm a happy man. Let's just hope it lasts longer than my 104 key Filco did.









What happened to the 104? Still got it?


----------



## Iceman0803

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
What happened to the 104? Still got it?

Yea I still have it. It has controller board issues. Basically when you plug it in it will work fine for a while (anywhere from a few hours to a week) but then the output rate will slow to a crawl until the keyboard stops responding to keypresses altogether. The only way to "fix" it is to unplug the keyboard for about a day or so then plug it back in and even then it's only temporary.


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Iceman0803* 
Yea I still have it. It has controller board issues. Basically when you plug it in it will work fine for a while (anywhere from a few hours to a week) but then the output rate will slow to a crawl until the keyboard stops responding to keypresses altogether. The only way to "fix" it is to unplug the keyboard for about a day or so then plug it back in and even then it's only temporary.

you could return it after a year of purchase and get a new one.


----------



## Iceman0803

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234* 
you could return it after a year of purchase and get a new one.

Ya I've been meaning to but I've been really busy.


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Iceman0803* 
Ya I've been meaning to but I've been really busy.

hm, maybe you could sell it to me and reciet and i could do it


----------



## Iceman0803

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234* 
hm, maybe you could sell it to me and reciet and i could do it
















Lol maybe. I've toyed with the idea of selling it but I haven't decided.


----------



## cp2010

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I should of changed that. the currency is wrong it's not $34 US. the retailer is in Taiwan but instead of Taiwan dollar, Yuan. you can order one with the help of Kip69 and have it shipped for no less than $170-175 US.

not sure if they have the same controller but they are both full n-key rollover. the differences are aesthetics.

3600 has adhesive Cherry Logo and Green LED
3494 has laser etched Cherry Logo and Blue LED.

I recently noticed on the 3494 black model, the characters that are laser etched are thicker than the ones on the 3494 white model. i'm not sure if all Cherry Black keyboards are like this. you can tell by looking at the curves in the numbers 9, 6, 4, etc


















I think that's it.

in a review I think the translation said Cherry decided to change the status led indicators because Blue is easier on the eyes and a little more up to date.

here is some Cherry porn and the force graph.


















Christine

Thanks for the Cherry porn.

if theyboth have nkro then the 3494 seems like a better deal. Less hassle trying to import the 3600 from Japan plus I get some cool looking blue LEDs.


----------



## ryanmh

My Filco Majestouch just came in today! I love the feel of the keys and I can already notice that I can type a lot faster. I ordered the one with Cherry MX Blue switches, but for some reason I got browns.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ryanmh* 
My Filco Majestouch just came in today! I love the feel of the keys and I can already notice that I can type a lot faster. I ordered the one with Cherry MX Blue switches, but for some reason I got browns.









You should call Filco, see if you can get it replaced with the Blue board you ordered.

Nothing wrong with MX Browns though.


----------



## v193r

im trying to decide between the filco black nkro and the soon to be released 6Gv2.
are the filco gold-plated connectors?(i heard they are better quality)
which keyboard is shorter? the filco looks longer.
filco- 17.3 x 5.4 x 1.5in
6gv2- 9,8 x 18,9 x 1,7 in
7g- 18.9 x 9.8 in
old 6g- 445 x 185 x 30 mm / 17,5 x 7,3 x 1,2 in
?- these numbers make no sense. the 6gv2 is 9'8 width while filco is 5.4?

also is the filco tilted? im pretty sure the steelseries keyboard arent. my abs m1 is and i need a wrist rest because of it.


----------



## clownfart

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
im trying to decide between the filco black nkro and the soon to be released 6Gv2.
are the filco gold-plated connectors?(i heard they are better quality)
which keyboard is shorter? the filco looks longer.
filco- 17.3 x 5.4 x 1.5in
6gv2- 9,8 x 18,9 x 1,7 in
7g- 18.9 x 9.8 in
old 6g- 445 x 185 x 30 mm / 17,5 x 7,3 x 1,2 in
?- these numbers make no sense. the 6gv2 is 9'8 width while filco is 5.4?

also is the filco tilted? im pretty sure the steelseries keyboard arent. my abs m1 is and i need a wrist rest because of it.

They're pretty similar. The differences known right now is the Filcos come with blue, black, or brown switches. The 6Gv2 comes with black ones. Also the 7G had laser etched key caps iirc, so the 6Gv2 might be the same. Personally I like the Filco's key caps, Futura ftw.









The shape of both of them are pretty much the same as an ABS M1, so you will need a _palm_ rest for either if you do for an M1.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Did you guys see the $20 w/free-ship ABS M1 yet? It's a really good price, even if it is just an M1

http://www.overclock.net/online-deal...-hd-pro-3.html

For those interested, here's the link to the thread itself as opposed to the second page:

http://www.overclock.net/online-deal...m1-hd-pro.html

Here's the Newegg link:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823224001

Promo Code: *EMCYRZT43*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234* 
im planning getting the filco this summer when i hit $150 in saving... but should i get this now instead and then get filco?

Unfortunately, this is totally up to you. It's just one of those things that is a rather personal decision.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ryanmh* 
My Filco Majestouch just came in today! I love the feel of the keys and I can already notice that I can type a lot faster. I ordered the one with Cherry MX Blue switches, but for some reason I got browns.









If you ordered from Elite Keyboards, then contact them and you should be able to get this fixed right away.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
im trying to decide between the filco black nkro and the soon to be released 6Gv2.
are the filco gold-plated connectors?(i heard they are better quality)

The USB plug is indeed gold plated. This is more or less a gimmick though. There's _some_ truth to gold-plated connectors being superior because gold resists corrosion and it's supposed to be a better conductor, but I honestly don't yet know how much of a difference it makes.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
which keyboard is shorter? the filco looks longer.
filco- 17.3 x 5.4 x 1.5in
6gv2- 9,8 x 18,9 x 1,7 in
7g- 18.9 x 9.8 in
old 6g- 445 x 185 x 30 mm / 17,5 x 7,3 x 1,2 in
?- these numbers make no sense. the 6gv2 is 9'8 width while filco is 5.4?

The 9.8" is how long it is from the edge of the wrist wrest to the top above the Function keys. The 5.4" is how long it is from the edge by the Spacebar and whatnot to the top above the Function keys.

The 17.3" and the 18.9" is the width from the left side to the right side. Of course, the 1.5" and 1.7" are the heights.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
also is the filco tilted? im pretty sure the steelseries keyboard arent. my abs m1 is and i need a wrist rest because of it.

The Majestouch boards do indeed have the feet that you can flip out just like on most keyboards. It's basically identical to the ABS M1.

Other than that: what do you mean by tilted? Do you mean sculpted like this? (this is the only really good side-view of a Majestouch that I can find)









Oh, and see that foot? It can be flipped up flush against the keyboard so that it's not raised up like that. Using the picture as a reference, it flips up to the right (so, it flips up towards you as you're sitting at the keyboard).

As for a wrist rest: I'll be absolutely honest with you: I don't use my wrist rest when I'm *using* the keyboard. But when I stop for a moment or whatever, then I will sometimes use my wrist rest - but I usually just use my lap to rest my hands since it's closer and more comfortable. This is because keeping the wrists planted while using a keyboard is very bad for the wrists, hands and fingers. It can cause fairly bad pain over the course of time.


----------



## chatch15117

I just realized why my dad has had the same keyboard for like 10 years. It's a mechanical keyboard from Compaq. The space bar is cut in half and the left "space bar" is a backspace. Now I know why the keys are all "clacky" and you can hear it typing from across the house(and this is no small house btw)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chatch15117* 
I just realized why my dad has had the same keyboard for like 10 years. It's a mechanical keyboard from Compaq. The space bar is cut in half and the left "space bar" is a backspace. Now I know why the keys are all "clacky" and you can hear it typing from across the house(and this is no small house btw)

The sound you're hearing is most likely him bottoming out the keycaps against the keyboard and not the switches. But to be sure, try this: press one of the keys down very slowly. If there's any sound while pressing the key downward, then this is the sound of the switch. Anything else is the sound of the keycaps.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

split space bar? that's awesome

omg.. i'm a huge geek.


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
The Majestouch boards do indeed have the feet that you can flip out just like on most keyboards. It's basically identical to the ABS M1.

Other than that: what do you mean by tilted? Do you mean sculpted like this? (this is the only really good side-view of a Majestouch that I can find)









Oh, and see that foot? It can be flipped up flush against the keyboard so that it's not raised up like that. Using the picture as a reference, it flips up to the right (so, it flips up towards you as you're sitting at the keyboard).

I found some.
ABS M1








Filco Majestouch








Steelseries 7G








Seems like the 7G seems the most flat.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
The 9.8" is how long it is from the edge of the wrist wrest to the top above the Function keys. The 5.4" is how long it is from the edge by the Spacebar and whatnot to the top above the Function keys.

The 17.3" and the 18.9" is the width from the left side to the right side. Of course, the 1.5" and 1.7" are the heights.

??? idk maybe its 2 late @ night for me too understand English. so which on the least long?


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clownfart* 
They're pretty similar. The differences known right now is the Filcos come with blue, black, or brown switches. The 6Gv2 comes with black ones. Also the 7G had laser etched key caps iirc, so the 6Gv2 might be the same. Personally I like the Filco's key caps, Futura ftw.









The shape of both of them are pretty much the same as an ABS M1, so you will need a _palm_ rest for either if you do for an M1.

futura? is that the font? are filco laser etched too?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
I found some.
ABS M1
http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/23-224-001-S06?$S640$

Filco Majestouch
http://blog.hp-improve.com/upload/fi...B108M_NB02.jpg

Steelseries 7G
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget....eries-7g-1.jpg

Seems like the 7G seems the most flat.

They look perfectly identical to me. Look closer.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
idk maybe its 2 late @ night for me too understand English. so which on the least long?

They are pretty much exactly the same when the Steelseries wrist rest is removed. Otherwise, with the wrist rest attached, the Steelseries consumes more desk space.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
futura? is that the font? are filco laser etched too?

Unfortunately, the Majestouch boards are just pad printed. But the entire keycap is coated to hide the pad printing.


----------



## Iceman0803

The "C" key on my keyboard already stopped clicking. Looks like it's time to get a keycap puller and some air duster.....


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Iceman0803* 
The "C" key on my keyboard already stopped clicking. Looks like it's time to get a keycap puller and some air duster.....









How long have you had your Tactile Click?

Also, I asked about the possibility of dust/debris building up over time and causing the click of these switches to be reduced or even eliminated (I was worried that it might happen because I could have sworn that somebody said it happens), and Manyak said that it's not possible for this to happen. So, I think that something might be wrong with that switch. But, if cleaning it out brings it back to normal, then so be it.


----------



## Iceman0803

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
How long have you had your Tactile Click?

Also, I asked about the possibility of dust/debris building up over time and causing the click of these switches to be reduced or even eliminated (I was worried that it might happen because I could have sworn that somebody said it happens), and Manyak said that it's not possible for this to happen. So, I think that something might be wrong with that switch. But, if cleaning it out brings it back to normal, then so be it.

I've had it for less than a day. You may be thinking that's not long enough for dust to build up but, I did clean out my PC case a bit after plugging in my board and that did stir up quite a bit of dust so it is plausible. AFAIK a few people over at geekhack have had this same issue and been able to fix it by removing the cap, pressing down the switch, and blowing it out with air duster. However if it is in fact an issue with the switch itself then I'll be pissed as that would make me 0 for 2 with Filco boards.


----------



## lmnop

when I saw v193r post a couple pages back I thought I would post some Deck pictures since they can be a pain in the ass to come by.










































Vintage Deck Legend 105 Gold.










Christine


----------



## elbowglue

Whatsup fellas. Wanted to share a ghetto mod I have made, sawed off the edge of my Compaq MX11800 resulting in the "Compaq MX 84u" I apologize in advance for the humongous pictures.

13.1 inches across, tenkeyless, all ghetto.


















Heres the thread about how to do this with your own MX11800.
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?tit...omments&page=2

Happy hack(saw)ing!


----------



## v193r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


The 9.8" is how long it is from the edge of the wrist wrest to the top above the Function keys. The 5.4" is how long it is from the edge by the Spacebar and whatnot to the top above the Function keys.

The 17.3" and the 18.9" is the width from the left side to the right side. Of course, the 1.5" and 1.7" are the heights.


9.8" seems kinda long. but i was looking at the length which filco seems to win at. I guess so far its still a tie between the filco and 6gv2.

@ lmnop wat were the deck pics for?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
9.8" seems kinda long. but i was looking at the length which filco seems to win at. I guess so far its still a tie between the filco and 6gv2.

@ lmnop wat were the deck pics for?

because you guys started posting pictures and Deck pictures are difficult to find.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


9.8" seems kinda long. but i was looking at the length which filco seems to win at. I guess so far its still a tie between the filco and 6gv2.


I finally looked at pictures of the 6Gv2 on Steelseries' website, and judging from those photos it looks like this keyboard is almost exactly the same size as the Majestouch. I also noticed that there's absolutely no mention of a wrist rest on Steelseries' website for the 6Gv2.

So, out of curiosity I checked the measurements for the *7G*, and it just so happens that the measurements are identical to what they posted for the 6Gv2 (except that they don't list a height for the 7G). So, I will theorize that this might be due to the fact that the 6Gv2 has not yet been released. I mean, just compare the pictures of the 6Gv2 to the pictures of the Majestouch for yourself: they look like they're almost exactly the same size, except the 6Gv2 is probably about 2 or 3mm wider from left to right and deeper from the Spacebar to the Function keys (the very edges of the board, of course). Not only that, but the 6Gv2 looks exactly like the 7G without its wrist rest.

But now look at the pictures of the 7G where they show it with the wrist rest attached: now doesn't that look like a keyboard that has the claimed measurements of the 6Gv2? I mean, compare it to the Filco Majestouch! It's nearly an inch wider, and it's nearly twice as deep thanks to that wrist rest. So, there's no way that the current 6Gv2's measurements are correct.

If you're still not sure about the size differences between the 6Gv2 and the Filco Majestouch, then consider the fact that almost all keycaps are generally the same size. I mean, use the keycaps in the photos of both boards in order to get a sense of scale so that you can more accurately compare the size of the two keyboards.


----------



## TwoCables

Excellent question posted by Thran:

http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...-keyboard.html

He has 2 switches that sound a bit muddy as compared to the rest of the switches on his board, and so he wants to swap them with 2 switches he never uses but he doesn't know how.


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I finally looked at pictures of the 6Gv2 on Steelseries' website, and judging from those photos it looks like this keyboard is almost exactly the same size as the Majestouch. I also noticed that there's absolutely no mention of a wrist rest on Steelseries' website for the 6Gv2.

So, out of curiosity I checked the measurements for the *7G*, and it just so happens that the measurements are identical to what they posted for the 6Gv2 (except that they don't list a height for the 7G). So, I will theorize that this might be due to the fact that the 6Gv2 has not yet been released. I mean, just compare the pictures of the 6Gv2 to the pictures of the Majestouch for yourself: they look like they're almost exactly the same size, except the 6Gv2 is probably about 2 or 3mm wider from left to right and deeper from the Spacebar to the Function keys (the very edges of the board, of course). Not only that, but the 6Gv2 looks exactly like the 7G without its wrist rest.

But now look at the pictures of the 7G where they show it with the wrist rest attached: now doesn't that look like a keyboard that has the claimed measurements of the 6Gv2? I mean, compare it to the Filco Majestouch! It's nearly an inch wider, and it's nearly twice as deep thanks to that wrist rest. So, there's no way that the current 6Gv2's measurements are correct.

If you're still not sure about the size differences between the 6Gv2 and the Filco Majestouch, then consider the fact that almost all keycaps are generally the same size. I mean, use the keycaps in the photos of both boards in order to get a sense of scale so that you can more accurately compare the size of the two keyboards.

wow. thats a lot of talk about size. im sure its not that either keyboard i long enough to get in the way. im curious what would people recommend for a gaming keyboard 6Gv2(100) vs filco black nkro(130). do you think the filco's is build better? also if the keys are deeper thats better because then i might not need a wrist rest because i use it because i like having a near 90 angle over the wasd keys and the wrist rest gives me that extra elevation but if the keys are deep thus lower or if the keyboard lays flat and doesnt have like a tilted platform forward then maybe i wont need it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


wow. thats a lot of talk about size. im sure its not that either keyboard i long enough to get in the way. im curious what would people recommend for a gaming keyboard 6Gv2(100) vs filco black nkro(130). do you think the filco's is build better? also if the keys are deeper thats better because then i might not need a wrist rest because i use it because i like having a near 90 angle over the wasd keys and the wrist rest gives me that extra elevation but if the keys are deep thus lower or if the keyboard lays flat and doesnt have like a tilted platform forward then maybe i wont need it.


I just noticed that you own the ABS M1. The Majestouch and 6Gv2 are basically identical to it in every single way except for the switches (and maybe the build quality as well as what's inside the keyboard).

In other words, if you need a wrist rest with the ABS M1, then you'll need it with both the 6Gv2 and Majestouch. And like I showed before with the picture: both have the feet that can be flipped out to elevate the keyboard, so it does indeed lay flat against a desk.

*To anyone wanting to tell me that there are more differences between the ABS M1 and the 6Gv2 and Majestouch:* the point of this post is to illustrate the size of the keyboard and to help decide whether or not a wrist rest is desired.


----------



## v193r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I just noticed that you own the ABS M1. The Majestouch and 6Gv2 are basically identical to it in every single way except for the switches (and maybe the build quality as well as what's inside the keyboard).

In other words, if you need a wrist rest with the ABS M1, then you'll need it with both the 6Gv2 and Majestouch. And like I showed before with the picture: both have the feet that can be flipped out to elevate the keyboard, so it does indeed lay flat against a desk.

*To anyone wanting to tell me that there are more differences between the ABS M1 and the 6Gv2 and Majestouch:* the point of this post is to illustrate the size of the keyboard and to help decide whether or not a wrist rest is desired.


ok either is too long and both require wrist rests. now which has a better build quality? also how much force are the black cherry in the 7g compared to the ones in the black alps in the abs m1. the main reason im switching from the abs m1 is because of the amount of force require has me doing less and slower key presses. also does filco have those 18K gold-plated connectors for extremely low latency which the steelseries uses(which are supposedly better? also i dont see much people owning the filco black in the mech key club is it not a popular choice?


----------



## v193r

also the odd man out in my search for a new mech keyboard is the guru board which is going to be released at q4 2010 and the price is unknown but i like it because its small and has cherry red which take less force thus bottoming out faster for me.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


ok either is too long and both require wrist rests.


I don't know what "long" is referring to here, but the dimensions for the 6Gv2 and the Filco Majestouch are basically identical to the ABS M1 (there is only a difference of maybe 1-3mm).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


now which has a better build quality?


I'm not sure, so I'll leave this up to somebody who has compared both. Although, the Majestouch boards are said to have almost the best build quality available.

But, when discussing keyboards of this caliber (ABS M1, 6Gv2, 7G, Majestouch, etc.), the build quality is almost not worth discussing since all of these boards have a build quality that's way better than all of those popular rubber dome switch keyboards.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


also how much force are the black cherry in the 7g compared to the ones in the black alps in the abs m1. the main reason im switching from the abs m1 is because of the amount of force require has me doing less and slower key presses.


I'm not sure, so I'd like to leave this up to somebody who knows from experience. However, based on the OP of this thread, the Cherry MX Black switches require more force than the Black ALPS Copies in the ABS M1. I would say that the Black ALPS Copies are probably like a stiffer Cherry MX Blue but with a less pronounced tactile feedback.

The Cherry MX Blacks do not have a tactile feedback at all: the travel of the switch is totally linear and therefore "smooth". But they are stiff and do require more force than the Black ALPS Copies. But the Cherry MX Blacks are supposed to be the best mechanical switch for gaming.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


also does filco have those 18K gold-plated connectors for extremely low latency which the steelseries uses(which are supposedly better?)


Yep, the Majestouch does indeed have a gold-plated USB connector. But the USB to PS/2 adapter is not gold plated. However, I don't know if gold plating makes that much of a difference anyway. I guess it does for a keyboard that will last like 20 years, but still: I think that it's just a gimmick (a sales tactic).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


also i dont see much people owning the filco black in the mech key club is it not a popular choice?


I think more people have it than we can see. Plus, the people in this guide represent an extremely small fraction of mechanical keyboard owners.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


also the odd man out in my search for a new mech keyboard is the guru board which is going to be released at q4 2010 and the price is unknown but i like it because its small and has cherry red which take less force thus bottoming out faster for me.


So do you prefer to bottom out?


----------



## clownfart

The gold plated connector makes almost no difference and it most certainly doesn't make the latency lower. Gold just provides a better connection since it's more malleable. This is fairly useless unless you unplug your keyboard _a lot_. Think about how you unplug your other devices more frequently and they still work great despite not having a gold plated connector.

It's a gimmick, and offers nothing extra to the keyboard.

After using browns for ever and trying a 7G, it actually didn't feel that hard to press. Though I still would like to try a board with red switches, I think blacks are fine. Better than the M1 for sure(for gaming).


----------



## v193r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But, when discussing keyboards of this caliber (ABS M1, 6Gv2, 7G, Majestouch, etc.), the build quality is almost not worth discussing since all of these boards have a build quality that's way better than all of those popular rubber dome switch keyboards.


Good then 6Gv2 and the Filco tie in length, build quality, and gold.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


So do you prefer to bottom out?


Ofc because I game and Manyak was right when saying that gamers bottom out anyways on tactile switches. I fell that my tactile ABS M1 gives me a little delay compared to my rubber dome. I want it to actuate faster. wait it does actuate faster with tactile since you dont have to bottom out and it registers the key faster than a bottoming out board but it takes me extra time and force to bottom out after the tactile bump and press another key again. I noticed this while playing snake a game which require fast key response.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clownfart*


The gold plated connector makes almost no difference and it most certainly doesn't make the latency lower. Gold just provides a better connection since it's more malleable. This is fairly useless unless you unplug your keyboard _a lot_. Think about how you unplug your other devices more frequently and they still work great despite not having a gold plated connector.

It's a gimmick, and offers nothing extra to the keyboard.

After using browns for ever and trying a 7G, it actually didn't feel that hard to press. Though I still would like to try a board with red switches, I think blacks are fine. Better than the M1 for sure(for gaming).


Thanks in def go for Cherry Blacks for gaming (or cherry red if i wait long enough for the guru.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


Good then 6Gv2 and the Filco tie in length, build quality, and gold.

Ofc because I game and Manyak was right when saying that gamers bottom out anyways on tactile switches. I fell that my tactile ABS M1 gives me a little delay compared to my rubber dome. I want it to actuate faster. wait it does actuate faster with tactile since you dont have to bottom out and it registers the key faster than a bottoming out board but it takes me extra time and force to bottom out after the tactile bump and press another key again. I noticed this while playing snake a game which require fast key response.

Thanks in def go for Cherry Blacks for gaming (or cherry red if i wait long enough for the guru.


Since the M1 is 19.99, I'll be ordering one this week ( Already own a Filco and 7G ). My friend and I have been meaning to release our review on the Filco Linear Force NKRO ( Blacks ) and the Steelseries 7G for a while now. It is mostly catered towards gaming enthusiasts, I'll make sure it gets done within the next 2-3 weeks.


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
Since the M1 is 19.99, I'll be ordering one this week ( Already own a Filco and 7G ). My friend and I have been meaning to release our review on the Filco Linear Force NKRO ( Blacks ) and the Steelseries 7G for a while now. It is mostly catered towards gaming enthusiasts, I'll make sure it gets done within the next 2-3 weeks.

thanx look forward for it.


----------



## KipH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clownfart*


The gold plated connector makes almost no difference and it most certainly doesn't make the latency lower. Gold just provides a better connection since it's more malleable. This is fairly useless unless you unplug your keyboard _a lot_. Think about how you unplug your other devices more frequently and they still work great despite not having a gold plated connector.

It's a gimmick, and offers nothing extra to the keyboard.


In defense of gold







I live in a very humid area. Many of my USB cables have failed due to corrosion. I would get a gold connector just for that. And it does not seem to matter how good or expensive the USB is. some rust faster, some slower but I can't see any pattern to it.


----------



## yann3804

My sister just told me that I was crazy, spending 170 bucks on a keyboard.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yann3804*


My sister just told me that I was crazy, spending 170 bucks on a keyboard.


She'll spend that much on shoes or a purse or a dress, which she'll use just as much, but yours will last longer.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yann3804*


My sister just told me that I was crazy, spending 170 bucks on a keyboard.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


She'll spend that much on shoes or a purse or a dress, which she'll use just as much, but yours will last longer.


I fully agree with Tot. lol

I thought I was nuts for spending so much when I bought by Deck Legend. But it was one of the best purchases I have ever made so far.

You'll be satisfied, no doubt


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


She'll spend that much on shoes or a purse or a dress, which she'll use just as much, but yours will last longer.


But don't say that, because then she'll say, "Are you saying I'm going to be FAT!!!???"


----------



## airplaneman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


But don't say that, because then she'll say, "Are you saying I'm going to be FAT!!!???"


LOL @ your sig.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Re: Blues or Browns

It seems that on browns it's easier not to bottom out than blues. I bottom out on blues much more often (it sounds good too!). Which means faster typing, less finger/wrist strain.


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *airplaneman* 
LOL @ your sig.

ya that sig is win.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yann3804*


My sister just told me that I was crazy, spending 170 bucks on a keyboard.


Aw, if only she understood why it's worth every penny. Oh well.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Re: Blues or Browns

It seems that on browns it's easier not to bottom out than blues. I bottom out on blues much more often (it sounds good too!). Which means faster typing, less finger/wrist strain.


Whoa, I never thought of it that way. I admit that I have actually noticed this, but I seem to refuse to accept it because I'm trying so hard to get good at not bottoming out.


----------



## Evtron

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Re: Blues or Browns

It seems that on browns it's easier not to bottom out than blues. I bottom out on blues much more often (it sounds good too!). Which means faster typing, less finger/wrist strain.


Yeah I'm having a hard time deciding on cherry blues or browns - the noise factor is the main reason for my indecisiveness


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evtron* 
Yeah I'm having a hard time deciding on cherry blues or browns - the noise factor is the main reason for my indecisiveness

Fortunately, the clicks are pretty quiet; they're like a quiet version of a retractable pen. The sound of a single keycap bottoming out against the body of the keyboard is louder than the sound of a single Cherry MX Blue.

In other words, if bottoming out, both keyboards will be pretty equal in loudness.

For some great examples, I recommend using YouTube.


----------



## v193r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yann3804*


My sister just told me that I was crazy, spending 170 bucks on a keyboard.


what keyboard cost that much?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I used to youtube filco all the time. In my case I have both. I have to say the placebo effect while switching really helped me out writing my end term papers when I had writers block. Although I switch often I still like my blues much better than browns. I love the sound of blues, but love the feel of browns more (lighter).


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


what keyboard cost that much?


A 104-key Filco Majestouch with NKRO, shipped to wherever he lives in Canada.









Err, I just noticed he doesn't live in Canada. That's somebody else.

*Edit: *Oh this is very embarrassing: he lives in Canada right now, but his profile says New York. Nevermind. The first line is correct.


----------



## Iceman0803

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


what keyboard cost that much?


Deck Legend. Then there's Topre based boards can cost that much used (probably due to their *extremely* low failure rate)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Iceman0803*


Deck Legend. Then there's Topre based boards can cost that much used (probably due to their *extremely* low failure rate)


But this guy is currently living in Canada and ordered a 104-key Filco Majestouch with NKR0.


----------



## Iceman0803

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But this guy is currently living in Canada and ordered a 104-key Filco Majestouch with NKR0.


Ah. Didn't notice that he ordered a Filco


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Iceman0803*


Ah. Didn't notice that he ordered a Filco


It's a secret. hehe


----------



## Iceman0803

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


It's a secret. hehe


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


ok either is too long and both require wrist rests. now which has a better build quality? also how much force are the black cherry in the 7g compared to the ones in the black alps in the abs m1. the main reason im switching from the abs m1 is because of the amount of force require has me doing less and slower key presses. also does filco have those 18K gold-plated connectors for extremely low latency which the steelseries uses(which are supposedly better? also i dont see much people owning the filco black in the mech key club is it not a popular choice?


the Simplified Alps (***kas) in the ABS M1 are Tactile, Non-Clicky. they have a lower actuation point at 1.5mm but actuate at 70g.

they both use gold contacts.

Filco keycaps are not very good because they are made out of a cheap plastic that is paper thin. the uniform coating they spray each keycap to protect the pad printing from fading wears and when it does the keycaps look greasy like you have been eating a bucket of chicken and it's permanent. there is a thread over at geekhack about a customer complaining his pad printing started to wear after 30 days.










3 year old Filco. look on geekhack for more.

the competition has a better product and that is why the Filco Majestouch Linear Force and Filco TenKeyLess Linear Force are not popular.

I would of chosen the Deck Legend 105 Fire and I don't even like the color red.

Christine


----------



## waway625

count me in as the latest convert







just bought a FILCO majestouch brown last friday and i love it!

was debating on getting a G15 or a FILCO..luckily the store allowed me to try and the decision was easy.get the filco..

problem is, my office keyboard (HP KU 0316) now feels crappy after getting used to the filco







luckily it isnt as crappy as my Microsoft keyboard at home (that i replaced with filco) that had a lot of stuck keys after a year of use


----------



## v193r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the Simplified Alps (***kas) in the ABS M1 are Tactile, Non-Clicky. they have a lower actuation point at 1.5mm but actuate at 70g.

they both use gold contacts.

Filco keycaps are not very good because they are made out of a cheap plastic that is paper thin. the uniform coating they spray each keycap to protect the pad printing from fading wears and when it does the keycaps look greasy like you have been eating a bucket of chicken and it's permanent. there is a thread over at geekhack about a customer complaining his pad printing started to wear after 30 days.










3 year old Filco. look on geekhack for more.

the competition has a better product and that is why the Filco Majestouch Linear Force and Filco TenKeyLess Linear Force are not popular.

I would of chosen the Deck Legend 105 Fire and I don't even like the color red.

Christine


Why not recommend the 7g or soon to be released 6gv2?


----------



## v193r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


A 104-key Filco Majestouch with NKRO, shipped to wherever he lives in Canada.









Err, I just noticed he doesn't live in Canada. That's somebody else.

*Edit: *Oh this is very embarrassing: he lives in Canada right now, but his profile says New York. Nevermind. The first line is correct.


lol


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
Why not recommend the 7g or soon to be released 6gv2?

the Deck Legend elevates 2 inches because of the ridge on the bottom of the casing so I think it suits your needs. Deck has a better warranty, return policy, quality and the craftsmanship Americans like to brag about since Moses parted the red sea.

the extra $15 is worth it.

choice between native USB or PS/2
100+ industrial grade LED
105 thick double shot & sublimated keycaps
windows or mac keycap
skull and crossbones keycap (their version of Red Esc)
Christine


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
the Deck Legend elevates 2 inches because of the ridge on the bottom of the casing so I think it suits your needs. Deck has a better warranty, return policy, quality and the craftsmanship Americans like to brag about since Moses parted the red sea.

the extra $15 is worth it.

choice between native USB or PS/2
100+ industrial grade LED
105 thick double shot & sublimated keycaps
windows or mac keycap
skull and crossbones keycap (their version of Red Esc)
Christine

I like the blue better even though i didnt want a illuminated keyboard to begin with.
How does the 7g or 6gv2 fare up? im seriously considering them.

On opinion so far: between the filco, 7g, 6gv2
Layout and size they all tie.
But in price
filco- 134
7g- 115 (esea)
6gv2- 100
Seems like im leaning toward waiting more for the 6gv2 since i dont need the features the 7g has nor dont think the wrist rests of the 7g will work with lan.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
I like the blue better even though i didnt want a illuminated keyboard to begin with.
How does the 7g or 6gv2 fare up? im seriously considering them.

On opinion so far: between the filco, 7g, 6gv2
Layout and size they all tie.
But in price
filco- 134
7g- 115 (esea)
6gv2- 100
Seems like im leaning toward waiting more for the 6gv2 since i dont need the features the 7g has nor dont think the wrist rests of the 7g will work with lan.

the Deck Legend 105 Frost (White LED) would be my choice, reminds me of the Logitech Illuminated but higher quality LED.


























the keycaps on the steelseries 6Gv2 are pad printed. the back slash key is also at the bottom instead of underneath the backspace key.

Christine


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
the Deck Legend 105 Frost (White LED) would be my choice, reminds me of the Logitech Illuminated but higher quality LED.

the keycaps on the steelseries 6Gv2 are pad printed. the back slash key is also at the bottom instead of underneath the backspace key.

Christine

besides the layout and printing is the 6gv2 a good choice?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
besides the layout and printing is the 6gv2 a good choice?

it hasn't hit shelves yet so there is no way in knowing if it has any problems.

Christine


----------



## yann3804

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But this guy is currently living in Canada and ordered a 104-key Filco Majestouch with NKR0.

Hey, I do live in Canada, what's wrong my profile? (New York?!)

I can't seem to justify 170$. If it doesn't satisfy me,



















Edit : By the way, tactile click NKRO model.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yann3804* 
Hey, I do live in Canada, what's wrong my profile? (New York?!)

I can't seem to justify 170$. If it doesn't satisfy me,



















Edit : By the way, tactile click NKRO model.

He was just stating that the reason the board cost you $170 was because of extra charges (being you're in Canada)

And I wouldn't spend 170 if it didn't satisfy me either. That being said, I did pay that much for my Deck, and I love it.


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
He was just stating that the reason the board cost you $170 was because of extra charges (being you're in Canada)

And I wouldn't spend 170 if it didn't satisfy me either. That being said, I did pay that much for my Deck, and I love it.

do u need a wrist rest for it? did u use on before?


----------



## yann3804

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
do u need a wrist rest for it? did u use on before?

By the way, I'm ugrading from...

...a dusty 5 years old ehh...

Integrated HP keyboard;

it is plastic made, very light.

I hope the majestouch will blow out that thing.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yann3804* 
Hey, I do live in Canada, what's wrong my profile? (New York?!)

I can't seem to justify 170$. If it doesn't satisfy me,



















Edit : By the way, tactile click NKRO model.

Whoa... I don't know who I clicked on, but wow... How embarrassing.









But you're right: $170 is definitely worth it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yann3804* 
By the way, I'm ugrading from...

...a dusty 5 years old ehh...

Integrated HP keyboard;

it is plastic made, very light.

I hope the majestouch will blow out that thing.

It will make that keyboard seem like a cheap, low-quality child's toy.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
do u need a wrist rest for it? did u use on before?

I personally like my keyboard as flat as possible (I don't like it super tilted like most). I wish I still had a wrist rest like I used to on my EclipseII, but I've adjusted to not having one for now. I might buy one in the future.

No I did not use it before I bought it. I kinda did it on a whim without ever having tried a mechanical keyboard before (at least that I can remember). I just had that feeling that this was for me. Worst case scenario was I returned it within 30 days to Deck and just incur the cost of trying it out, or I sold it on ebay or something. Either way I'd only be out like $10-20 or so.


----------



## yann3804

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But you're right: $170 is definitely worth it.

It will make that keyboard seem like a cheap, low-quality child's toy.

I hope so.

Thank you.


----------



## lmnop

both Deck and IBM have a 2" elevation. since Costar manufactures everything else the Deck is the highest elevation you will get.










I don't think the Deck Legend 105 Gold is elevated but the one above it looks like it.










this is the ridge I was talking earlier and is probably where the extra .5" comes from. there is actually nothing inside, modders use it to store electronics.

Christine


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
I personally like my keyboard as flat as possible (I don't like it super tilted like most). I wish I still had a wrist rest like I used to on my EclipseII, but I've adjusted to not having one for now. I might buy one in the future.

No I did not use it before I bought it. I kinda did it on a whim without ever having tried a mechanical keyboard before (at least that I can remember). I just had that feeling that this was for me. Worst case scenario was I returned it within 30 days to Deck and just incur the cost of trying it out, or I sold it on ebay or something. Either way I'd only be out like $10-20 or so.

just checking because when i game. i like to have my left hand finger in a 90 degree angle over the keys. so if the keyboard is tilted i need to be elevated but if its flat ill just hover over it and i wont need a wrist rest but with my abs m1 i need on anyway i place it.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
just checking because when i game. i like to have my left hand finger in a 90 degree angle over the keys. so if the keyboard is tilted i need to be elevated but if its flat ill just hover over it and i wont need a wrist rest but with my abs m1 i need on anyway i place it.

Yeah, as lmnop's pics above show, it has a bit of elevation even with the flaps down. You might want a wrist pad.

It threw me off a first, but I'm getting used to it


----------



## v193r

i dont wanna spend extra on double shot keys and leds i didnt want. im get the 6gv2 most likely.


----------



## yawnbox

I received my blank keys today for my Filco Majestouch. I had no problem switching out the letter'd keys. even the shifts, enter, and backspace just needed an ink pen and a little patience to switch out. i'm still thinking about using krylon (gold) to paint the letter'd keys.


----------



## yann3804

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yawnbox* 
I received my blank keys today for my Filco Majestouch. I had no problem switching out the letter'd keys. even the shifts, enter, and backspace just needed an ink pen and a little patience to switch out. i'm still thinking about using krylon (gold) to paint the letter'd keys.

Could I ask : How do you feel when typing on your majestouch?

How is it superior to rubber dome, in your opinion?

I'm just trying to get some opinions because I did order a majestouch but it was a last minute buy.


----------



## hbfs

How are the Filco Majestouch Brown vs Blue switches for gaming?

I do a fair amount of both, so I'm wondering how they compare.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hbfs* 
How are the Filco Majestouch Brown vs Blue switches for gaming?

I do a fair amount of both, so I'm wondering how they compare.

Cherry MX Blues are not suited for gaming.

Christine


----------



## hbfs

What is it about them that makes them not suitable?

I'm new to this whole mechanical keyboard, but I'm liking my new ABS M1. Huge improvement from my standard Dell rubber domes keyboard, but the keys do feel a bit heavy typing on them.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Cherry MX Blues are not suited for gaming.

Christine

Isn't that really just because most gamers are going to bottom out the keys anyways, so the prevailing thought is that a tactile click and bump are unnecessary?

It shouldn't make the switch any less capable for gaming, unless the user is picky about actuation force. Personal preference imo


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hbfs* 
How are the Filco Majestouch Brown vs Blue switches for gaming?

I do a fair amount of both, so I'm wondering how they compare.

Blues are great for gaming. To procrastinate from final exam craming I did an epic 12 hour battlefield (exaggeration) run few weeks ago on the blues. This was also after finishing up a few papers where I switched back and forth. The MX blues are a great robust keyboard that can do it all. They're the "HD600"s of the keyboard scene. However for long hours of typing the MX browns are the best.

Personal preference but it's really dependent if you like to bottom out or not.

OH man.. the blues are so sweet.

Oh man. the browns are sweet too.

OH man I have a problem...


----------



## lmnop

you can play video games on any keyboard with any switch but Cherry MX Blues are not suited for gaming because the reset point is higher than the actuation point which makes double tapping difficult, I also find the click to be annoying when I don't have my headphones on.

Christine


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
you can play video games on any keyboard with any switch but Cherry MX Blues are not suited for gaming because the reset point is higher than the actuation point which makes double tapping difficult, I also find the click to be annoying when I don't have my headphones on.

Christine

This, pretty much.

The MX browns are a nice compromise between gaming and typing, but they just don't have that sharp tactile point that makes typing on MX blue and IBM BS switches so pleasurable.

If you're considering MX blues for gaming and typing and don't mind the noise, I'd recommend a space saving Unicomp Customizer instead. The keypress is rather heavier than the MX blues, but no more so than the ABS M1. It's also the only switch where the activation and reset points are _exactly_ the same, whereas with all other switches it's off just a little bit (or more than a little bit, with MX blues). A Unicomp is also cheaper than a Filco or Das, being only $70+shipping. No NKRO versions, however, can't do that with a membrane board (well Microsoft has, but no one else has copied them yet).


----------



## Crazy9000

Blues are what the das keyboard has right? I would not even think about gaming on them. I tried it, it was a terrible experience. Fun to type on though.


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
This, pretty much.

The MX browns are a nice compromise between gaming and typing, but they just don't have that sharp tactile point that makes typing on MX blue and IBM BS switches so pleasurable.

If you're considering MX blues for gaming and typing and don't mind the noise, I'd recommend a space saving Unicomp Customizer instead. The keypress is rather heavier than the MX blues, but no more so than the ABS M1. It's also the only switch where the activation and reset points are _exactly_ the same, whereas with all other switches it's off just a little bit (or more than a little bit, with MX blues). A Unicomp is also cheaper than a Filco or Das, being only $70+shipping. No NKRO versions, however, can't do that with a membrane board (well Microsoft has, but no one else has copied them yet).

So is the MX Brown > Black Alps(ABS M1) for gaming?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

It all comes down to preference. I actually haven't tried black Alps before, but I'm typing on MX browns right now and they're pretty good. I also like the Cherry MLs for gaming, but they're no fun for typing.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Blues are what the das keyboard has right? I would not even think about gaming on them. I tried it, it was a terrible experience. Fun to type on though.

just to clarify I have been using Cherry MX Blue switches in my Das Ultimate for 2 years now and I used a IBM Model M on my XT for a couple years when I was younger. I did try to buy a steelseries 7g in December but the USB cable came DOA and I ended up exchanging it for a steelseries xai instead. my next keyboard is probably going to be a Deck Legend, Cherry G80-3494 or Guruboard. when I said the click is annoying without my headphones I meant the speed and force of my hand when playing video games differs when typing.

I think the i-Rocks KR-6820E-BK has a pretty good rollover in PS/2 for a rubber dome keyboard.

Christine


----------



## Thran

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Isn't that really just because most gamers are going to bottom out the keys anyways, so the prevailing thought is that a tactile click and bump are unnecessary?

It shouldn't make the switch any less capable for gaming, unless the user is picky about actuation force. Personal preference imo


Well I'm about to make a rage post about mx blues. I would suggest not to get them since all I do is game and I've broken 6 switches so far from my typing on a das keyboard and currently dealing with them hoping that I can exchange it for a new one :<.


----------



## Crazy9000

I strongly prefer linear switches for gaming. I've had the fire deck for several years, I really can't imagine anything that would be better for gaming. The switches seem just right, and the red lights are not blinding when the lights are off.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I strongly prefer linear switches for gaming. I've had the fire deck for several years, I really can't imagine anything that would be better for gaming. The switches seem just right, and the red lights are not blinding when the lights are off.

I think i'm going to email Adam at Deck and ask if they are ever going to use Cherry MX Red Linear switches in a Anniversary, Limited Edition or standard stock. just seems more logical to have Cherry MX Red Linear instead of Cherry MX Clear and probably good business since no company in North America has a product with Cherry MX Red Linear.

Christine


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I think i'm going to email Adam at Deck and ask if they are ever going to use Cherry MX Red Linear switches in a Anniversary, Limited Edition or standard stock. just seems more logical to have Cherry MX Red Linear instead of Cherry MX Clear and probably good business since no company in North America has a product with Cherry MX Red Linear.

Christine

How are the Cherry Reds for gaming compared to Cherry Blacks and Black Alps. I've always though they would be prefect for me because I wanted to actuate faster with a linear switch with low force.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
How are the Cherry Reds for gaming compared to Cherry Blacks and Black Alps. I've always though they would be prefect for me because I wanted to actuate faster with a linear switch with low force.

they are basically Cherry MX Black Linear with a lower reset and actuation point. because they are low force and linear they have a reputation for rivaling a capacitive switch.

after spending sometime on the Guruboard website I have a feeling they are not going to be cheap.

Christine


----------



## nijikon5

ABS M1 just came in. The rollover capabilities definitely leave much to be desired ( even on the WASD cluster ). Usually maxing out around 2-4 characters, sometimes won't even get two.

Overall though, for a 20 dollar mechanical, it is a solid buy. I still think that purchasing a higher end board like a Filco, 7G, or DAS should be the route for gamers.


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
ABS M1 just came in. The rollover capabilities definitely leave much to be desired ( even on the WASD cluster ). Usually maxing out around 2-4 characters, sometimes won't even get two.

Overall though, for a 20 dollar mechanical, it is a solid buy. I still think that purchasing a higher end board like a Filco, 7G, or DAS should be the route for gamers.

So far to me, who is looking for a gaming mech keyboard. It seems that the soon 6gv2($100) blows the filco black nkro($134) out of the water for the price. Even the 7g($115) does well against the Filco. Its cheaper but 20 bucks and has more features some might need. Seems like less for more.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


So far to me, who is looking for a gaming mech keyboard. It seems that the soon 6gv2($100) blows the filco black nkro($134) out of the water for the price. Even the 7g($115) does well against the Filco. Its cheaper but 20 bucks and has more features some might need. Seems like less for more.


The 7g is $150 unless something drastically changed. The 6gv2 will probably be the best option for gamers, we'll have to see though once it comes out how the rollover and other things about the board are. It's hard to believe it will be a clone of the 7G for 50 dollars cheaper minus the USB extension + wrist rest. We'll see though. I prefer using the Filco personally over the 7G, I promise the review will be up soon ( HD cam came in last week ). I'll add in a ABS review too as a bonus.


----------



## v193r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


The 7g is $150 unless something drastically changed. The 6gv2 will probably be the best option for gamers, we'll have to see though once it comes out how the rollover and other things about the board are. It's hard to believe it will be a clone of the 7G for 50 dollars cheaper minus the USB extension + wrist rest. We'll see though. I prefer using the Filco personally over the 7G, I promise the review will be up soon ( HD cam came in last week ). I'll add in a ABS review too as a bonus.


The 7g is $115 on esea.net. Also i believe that a 7g without the audio ports and usb bus and wrist rest would be be worth $100.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


The 7g is $115 on esea.net. Also i believe that a 7g without the audio ports and usb bus and wrist rest would be be worth $100.


Wow, didn't know that. Great price for the 7G. Definitely worth the price. I personally prefer the Filco due to the proven NKRO on it ( 7G is just as good. I still think the Filco is better in that department ). I also prefer the layout on the Filco ( Don't like the small backspace key on the 7G ). I know Imnop doesn't like the keycaps on Filcos, but they feel better to type on and play than the ones on the 7G. For the price though, the 7G is the better buy hands down.


----------



## v193r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Wow, didn't know that. Great price for the 7G. Definitely worth the price. I personally prefer the Filco due to the proven NKRO on it ( 7G is just as good. I still think the Filco is better in that department ). I also prefer the layout on the Filco ( Don't like the small backspace key on the 7G ). I know Imnop doesn't like the keycaps on Filcos, but they feel better to type on and play than the ones on the 7G. For the price though, the 7G is the better buy hands down.


Ya but im wait for the 6gv2 since i dont need the features the 7g provides and i get a better layout for less money.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


Ya but im wait for the 6gv2 since i dont need the features the 7g provides and i get a better layout for less money.


you think a small backspace is worse than the back slash at the bottom?

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yann3804*


Could I ask : How do you feel when typing on your majestouch?

How is it superior to rubber dome, in your opinion?

I'm just trying to get some opinions because I did order a majestouch but it was a last minute buy.


Like I said: I have the Tactile Click NKRO, and I can almost guarantee you that you're going to love it; for the first time in my entire life, I am happier with my keyboard than I am with my entire computer system. I wouldn't trade the Tactile Click NKRO for anything in the world.

And yeah, the Tactile Click is indeed the board with the Cherry MX Blues.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Cherry MX Blues are not suited for gaming.

Christine


Technically speaking, this is true. But it's still very subjective. It's like telling somebody that ketchup isn't suited for eggs or something. I don't know.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Isn't that really just because most gamers are going to bottom out the keys anyways, so the prevailing thought is that a tactile click and bump are unnecessary?


I noticed that I can tell right now that if I had linear switches, then I could probably be more precise in gaming. However, I'm in love with the feel of the MX Blues, so I enjoy it anyway.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


It shouldn't make the switch any less capable for gaming, unless the user is picky about actuation force. Personal preference imo


Not only is it your opinion, but it's also absolutely pure fact: there are experienced mechanical keyboard owners who prefer the Cherry MX Blues, and then there are some who prefer the Browns. Yet, others prefer _other _switches. After all, in the end we are forced to rely on our senses to determine what the best switch type is for ourselves.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Blues are great for gaming. To procrastinate from final exam craming I did an epic 12 hour battlefield (exaggeration) run few weeks ago on the blues. This was also after finishing up a few papers where I switched back and forth. The MX blues are a great robust keyboard that can do it all. They're the "HD600"s of the keyboard scene. However for long hours of typing the MX browns are the best.

Personal preference but it's really dependent if you like to bottom out or not.

OH man.. the blues are so sweet.

Oh man. the browns are sweet too.

OH man I have a problem...


Exactly: it can only be down to personal preference.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Blues are what the das keyboard has right? I would not even think about gaming on them. I tried it, it was a terrible experience. Fun to type on though.


The Das Model S Professional and Ultimate have the Cherry MX Blues while the Das Model S Professional Silent has Cherry MX Browns.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


So is the MX Brown > Black Alps(ABS M1) for gaming?


Unfortunately, this is all very subjective. The best thing to do is to do some research and study on the different switch types out there and then decide on the one your gut instinct tells you that you'll like the most. Then once you've decided on the switch type, find the best keyboard that comes with those switches while still following your gut instinct.


----------



## lmnop

the only aspect that was ever subjective about Cherry MX Blue switches was the click they are not suited for gaming, they are suited for typing, always have always will be. double tapping is too important.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the only aspect that was ever subjective about Cherry MX Blue switches was the click they are not suited for gaming, they are suited for typing, always have always will be. double tapping is too important.

Christine


This is still subjective because there are some who have no problems with double-tapping and then there are some who do. It's not to say that those who _don't_ have the problem are somehow superior, but it's just that it's all subjective because as we all know, no two people are the same.

So just because it _*technically*_ isn't suited, it doesn't mean that there will be somebody who says that they've tried all of the switch types and strongly prefer the Cherry MX Blues for gaming. That doesn't make them ignorant or ill-informed or anything, but rather it just emphasizes how it always comes down to the person.


----------



## lmnop

when hell freezes over let me know.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


when hell freezes over let me know.

Christine


Oh, so you really don't know that there are people who strongly prefer the Cherry MX Blues for gaming even though they have experienced the other switch types available?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Oh, so you really don't know that there are people who strongly prefer the Cherry MX Blues for gaming even though they have experienced the other switch types available?


Some people would prefer a trackball to a mx518 for gaming too. I really don't see the need to bring up the 1/100000 people who like something randomly for no good reason.


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
you think a small backspace is worse than the back slash at the bottom?

Christine

I dont care about layout. I use wasd space ctrol shift tab qerfgb 0-9. A 60 letter keyboard like the HHKP2 would be nice layout and size too but someone said its bad for gaming and its too expensive.


----------



## lmnop

the keys on the Topre require different amounts of force and the layout on the HHKB isn't ideal. the only comment I have ever read praising a Topre for gaming was "it's better than my Lycosa." they are typing keyboards.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Some people would prefer a trackball to a mx518 for gaming too. I really don't see the need to bring up the 1/100000 people who like something randomly for no good reason.

The only reason I brought it up was because lmnop was stating it as though what I said is absolutely false and absolutely impossible to be true. It's like she thinks that since it's *technically* not suited for gaming that absolutely nobody on this planet prefers it over all the other switch types.

But what she should be saying is that although it's technically not the best mechanical switch for gaming, it's still strongly preferred by some. But not only that, it's still a billion times better for gaming than the rubber dome switch type.


----------



## lmnop

double tapping is to important to ignore. space bar, shift, w, backspace, cursors, etc. Cherry MX Blues are suited for typing not gaming and they have been since the conception of this thread, how long have you owned a Filco a month?

Christine


----------



## Crazy9000

It's not just double tapping, it has to do with the way the switch presses down and the immediate input required for a game. I feel that the slight pause from having a tactile switch is a bad thing for gaming, no matter how you look at it.

I mean it will technically work, but I can't imagine it being an enjoyable experience for anyone. And to the people that may say they do enjoy gaming like that, I would suspect they haven't tried many other options.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
double tapping is to important to ignore. space bar, shift, w, backspace, cursors, etc. Cherry MX Blues are suited for typing not gaming and they have been since the conception of this thread, how long have you owned a Filco a month?

Christine


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
It's not just double tapping, it has to do with the way the switch presses down and the immediate input required for a game. I feel that the slight pause from having a tactile switch is a bad thing for gaming, no matter how you look at it.

I mean it will technically work, but I can't imagine it being an enjoyable experience for anyone. And to the people that may say they do enjoy gaming like that, I would suspect they haven't tried many other options.

_*SIGH......*_

I'm not saying that I don't understand all of this!!!!!!!! Good grief, would you give me some credit?!?!?!

Read what I'm saying! I'm saying that just because all of this is true, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THERE AREN'T PEOPLE WHO STRONGLY PREFER THE CHERRY MX BLUES.

That is all. I've had enough. I'm extremely sick of not being understood.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I don't know about MX Blues. On MX browns the tactile bump is so soft I don't even notice it while gaming. With the Model M I did notice it, but don't feel it negatively impacted gaming; at least not as much as the huge size of the thing did. The G84-4100 has short travel keys that are barely tactile, and works great for gaming as long as you hit the key directly in the middle so it doesn't stick.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
_*SIGH......*_

I'm not saying that I don't understand all of this!!!!!!!! Good grief, would you give me some credit?!?!?!

Read what I'm saying! I'm saying that just because all of this is true, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THERE AREN'T PEOPLE WHO STRONGLY PREFER THE CHERRY MX BLUES.

That is all. I've had enough. I'm extremely sick of not being understood.

We understand you perfectly fine. I don't think any of us have denied that some people might prefer blues against all the facts. That doesn't change that blues are not "good" gaming switches, and that we will recommend something else.

Or do you think everytime someone comes in asking for a mouse, we should point them towards a mx518 and also add in that some people prefer trackballs? That's basically what you're saying we should do.


----------



## TwoCables

Christine, telling somebody to "calm down" never works. Ever.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I don't know about MX Blues. On MX browns the tactile bump is so soft I don't even notice it while gaming. With the Model M I did notice it, but don't feel it negatively impacted gaming; at least not as much as the huge size of the thing did. The G84-4100 has short travel keys that are barely tactile, and works great for gaming as long as you hit the key directly in the middle so it doesn't stick.

Thank you. Maybe they'll listen to me now.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
We understand you perfectly fine. I don't think any of us have denied that some people might prefer blues against all the facts. That doesn't change that blues are not "good" gaming switches, and that we will recommend something else.

Or do you think everytime someone comes in asking for a mouse, we should point them towards a mx518 and also add in that some people prefer trackballs? That's basically what you're saying we should do.

Sigh. Are you serious?!

If you understood me perfectly fine, then you would not have pushed it. If you understood what I was saying, then you wouldn't have felt that I needed to be told everything you told me before and everything you told me just now.

Seriously: I know when somebody doesn't understand me, and this is one of those times. *All I am saying is that even though the switch type is technically not the best for gaming, there are still some people who prefer it above the rest for gaming*. Does this make them superior? No. It just illustrates the simple fact that everyone is different.

So please stop pushing the well-known facts on me as though I don't have a clue, ok? Thank you.


----------



## nijikon5

Cherry Black Switches for gaming: IF U AIN'T FIRST, THEN YOU'RE LAST.

I saw the blue mechanical Fry's had, but sadly they didn't have any out there on display :[.

Hopefully I'll be getting that amazing Cherry Red switch KB Imnop linked us in a month or so.


----------



## lmnop

want some percocet? they usually help. I am battling a respiratory infection. even in my darkest hour I have a sadistic sense of humor.

hey Manyak is back, I didn't burn down the store while you were gone









Christine


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Christine, telling somebody to "calm down" never works. Ever.

Thank you. Maybe they'll listen to me now.

Sigh. Are you serious?!

If you understood me perfectly fine, then you would not have pushed it. If you understood what I was saying, then you wouldn't have felt that I needed to be told everything you told me before and everything you told me just now.

Seriously: I know when somebody doesn't understand me, and this is one of those times. *All I am saying is that even though the switch type is technically not the best for gaming, there are still some people who prefer it above the rest for gaming*. Does this make them superior? No. It just illustrates the simple fact that everyone is different.

So please stop pushing the well-known facts on me as though I don't have a clue, ok? Thank you.

What I'm seeing is this. You need to submit to Blacks and other Linears for gaming like every country needs to submit to Mother Russia









Jokes aside, I think Imnop and Crazy just want to point out technical reasons why Blacks are superior for gaming, which seems reasonable and factual.

I know you're just trying to get across the message that even if blues aren't optimal for gaming, some people prefer it over other switch types, even for gaming ( personal preference > all at times ). I don't know if ripster on geekhack games, but he seems to love the blues above everything else. The thing about preference/opinion is, there are those on this board who believe ****ty logitech/razer rubber domes are no different than mechanicals and some who believe they are superior. Don't feel like your message isn't going across, I'm sure they understand what you're saying.

BTW, have you thought about trying any different switch types? I know you've done your research on forums/youtube, but nothing replaces actual time with different switches. Keep your head up playa.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
want some percocet? they usually help. I am battling a respiratory infection. even in my darkest hour I have a sadistic sense of humor.

hey Manyak is back, I didn't burn down the store while you were gone









Christine

lol well I'm back in the states, but I'm not gonna be as active as I used to be for a little while yet. I've still got way too much paperwork and red tape to go through.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
lol well I'm back in the states, but I'm not gonna be as active as I used to be for a little while yet. I've still got way too much paperwork and red tape to go through.

where did you go? <tugs on your shirt> did you bring me back anything.

Christine


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
where did you go?

I'm pretty sure Manyak is a professional assassin, and uses a different keyboard each time to perform his task.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
What I'm seeing is this. You need to submit to Blacks and other Linears for gaming like every country needs to submit to Mother Russia









Jokes aside, I think Imnop and Crazy just want to point out technical reasons why Blacks are superior for gaming, which seems reasonable and factual.

But if they understood the very simple thing that I said, then none of this ever would have been said. I mean, I was just simply saying that even though all of these technical facts are very true and quite well-known in the mechanical keyboarding community, it doesn't mean that they're absolutely out of the question and it doesn't mean that there aren't people who have tried all of the popular switches and strongly prefer the Cherry MX Blues for gaming. I mean, some people don't have a single problem with them, but that certainly doesn't mean that they're superior; it just makes them different.

In other words: Yes. I am absolutely 100% aware of all of these facts and technicalities. But in the end, it all comes down to the individual.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
I know you're just trying to get across the message that even if blues aren't optimal for gaming, some people prefer it over other switch types, even for gaming ( personal preference > all at times ). I don't know if ripster on geekhack games, but he seems to love the blues above everything else. The thing about preference/opion is, there are those on this board who believe ****ty logitech/razer rubber domes are no different than mechanicals and some who believe they are superior. Don't feel like your message isn't going across, I'm sure they understand what you're saying.

I'm not sure because if they were, then they wouldn't have tried to teach me all of that technical stuff. I mean, I never once said something like, "No, the Cherry MX Blues are in fact excellent for gaming". But they sure acted like it. They acted like I needed to be educated even though I said absolutely nothing that would have called for it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
BTW, have you thought about trying any different switch types? I know you've done your research on forums/youtube, but nothing replaces actual time with different switches. Keep your head up playa.

If I had the money (and the extra room), then I'd have the Tactile Touch NKRO, the Linear Force, the Topre Realforce, the IBM Model M, the Dell AT101W, etc., etc.

In other words, I'd have a couple dozen different mechanical keyboards. But not only do I lack the money for more keyboards (hardly enough to justify spending even $20 right now), but I lack the space. Literally.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But if they understood the very simple thing that I said, then none of this ever would have been said. I mean, I was just simply saying that even though all of these technical facts are very true and quite well-known in the mechanical keyboarding community, it doesn't mean that they're absolutely out of the question and it doesn't mean that there aren't people who have tried all of the popular switches and strongly prefer the Cherry MX Blues for gaming. I mean, some people don't have a single problem with them, but that certainly doesn't mean that they're superior; it just makes them different.


What I don't understand is why we need to/should point that out. I think that's pretty much a given for anything.

Quote:



In other words, I'd have a couple dozen different mechanical keyboards. But not only do I lack the money for more keyboards (hardly enough to justify spending even $20 right now), but I lack the space. Literally.


What I did was kept my favorite keyboard at the moment, then would get a new one in addition, try it out, then sell it and try a different one. You loose a bit of money each time, but you don't have to spend thousands on keyboards to get a good feeling with a broad scope of different ones.

Not saying you should rush out and do it right now, just maybe something to try when you have some extra money you're willing to spend. Seeing how much you like your current keyboard, just imagine if there was one out there that you like just as much more.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


where did you go? <tugs on your shirt> did you bring me back anything.

Christine


Beirut. My father passed away. I brought back some baklavah and cheap cigarettes ($1.50 / pack!)

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I'm pretty sure Manyak is a professional assassin, and uses a different keyboard each time to perform his task.


They almost caught me on my last mission; they saw the Deck's backlight from a mile away.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Beirut. My father passed away. I brought back some baklavah and cheap cigarettes ($1.50 / pack!)

They almost caught me on my last mission; they saw the Deck's backlight from a mile away.


cigarettes are welcome. i'm sorry to hear about your father.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


What I don't understand is why we need to/should point that out. I think that's pretty much a given for anything.

What I did was kept my favorite keyboard at the moment, then would get a new one in addition, try it out, then sell it and try a different one. You loose a bit of money each time, but you don't have to spend thousands on keyboards to get a good feeling with a broad scope of different ones.

Not saying you should rush out and do it right now, just maybe something to try when you have some extra money you're willing to spend. Seeing how much you like your current keyboard, just imagine if there was one out there that you like just as much more.


Again: somebody on here - and I won't say who - looked like their message was basically this: Cherry MX Blues are absolutely no good for gaming and nobody uses them whatsoever (or, perhaps that everyone hates the Cherry MX Blues for gaming). So, I decided to say that this kind of a statement cannot be made since it will *always* come down to the individual.

There's nothing I dislike more than seeing a potential for somebody to read this for the first time not knowing any better and saying, "Oh, then I will never, ever consider the Cherry MX Blues for gaming, and I'll also tell others that this switch type absolutely sucks for gaming". There's no way I'm going to allow for that to possibly happen. The decision is up to the individual, not the technical facts.

Yes, the technical facts should be considered. But in the end, it can still only come down to the person making the decision.

Here's an extremely exaggerated example to make my point absolutely clear:

Fact: mustard is not a suitable condiment for a chocolate cup cake.

Truth: With over 6 billion people on this planet, there have to be people who love mustard with their chocolate cup cakes.

Both are true. But in the end, it doesn't matter what the facts are when the ultimate decision has to be made with your senses.

Now please don't judge my example and say "gross, there is not 1 single human being on this planet who likes mustard on chocolate cup cakes". Yes, I think that this is true too. But that's not the point behind that extremely exaggerated (and admittedly ridiculous) example.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Beirut. My father passed away. I brought back some baklavah and cheap cigarettes ($1.50 / pack!)

They almost caught me on my last mission; they saw the Deck's backlight from a mile away.


Oh Manyak, I don't know what to say. I'm sorry that you lost your father. I love you, brother.


----------



## nijikon5

Do I sense a spark and impending Bromance?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


cigarettes are welcome. i'm sorry to hear about your father.

Christine


Thanks.

If you _really_ want some I'll mail you a pack, but that's it







. I always get my cigarettes from there not just because of the price, but because they're a lot cleaner than the American ones (not like Cigarettes are clean to begin with, but at least these are better) - they've got MUCH less chemicals in them, and it really shows. Their feel and taste is a lot smoother, they take twice as long to burn, and they don't go out on their own if you don't smoke them fast enough.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Oh Manyak, I don't know what to say. I'm sorry that you lost your father. I love you, brother.


Thanks. It's tough, but hey that's life. We all end up dead someday.


----------



## DaMirrorLink

today my ABS M1 comes in


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DaMirrorLink*


today my ABS M1 comes in










Mine too


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Do I sense a spark and impending Bromance?


I'm trying to inspire a new "Bromance novel".

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Thanks. It's tough, but hey that's life. We all end up dead someday.


I like this attitude.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *DaMirrorLink*


today my ABS M1 comes in










Ooooo I'm looking forward to seeing what you think of it!! What kind of Dell keyboard do you have right now?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Thanks.

If you _really_ want some I'll mail you a pack, but that's it







. I always get my cigarettes from there not just because of the price, but because they're a lot cleaner than the American ones (not like Cigarettes are clean to begin with, but at least these are better) - they've got MUCH less chemicals in them, and it really shows. Their feel and taste is a lot smoother, they take twice as long to burn, and they don't go out on their own if you don't smoke them fast enough.

Thanks. It's tough, but hey that's life. We all end up dead someday.


the only good canadian cigarettes are Du Maurier they are much smoother than Winston and Marlboro which have a "cigar" like taste. I like American cigarettes.

Christine


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the only good canadian cigarettes are Du Maurier they are much smoother than Winston and Marlboro which have a "cigar" like taste. I like American cigarettes.

Christine


Yeah I know what you're talking about, and these Marlboros don't have that cigar roughness to them.

Wanna trade packs?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Yeah I know what you're talking about, and these Marlboros don't have that cigar roughness to them.

Wanna trade packs?










if I could afford them I would lol I am on reserve cigarettes, all those jokes about indians (sorry "natives") over the years have caught up. too expensive to smoke Du Maurier when I was younger they were $2.50 a pack now they are 5 times that. I keep quitting, starting, quitting, starting, quitting, starting ever since I was 14. I thought about trying a pill called Chantix it stimulates the nicotine receptors in your brain, your supposed to smoke while on it for 2 weeks then eventually the cigarettes taste bad and you naturally quit but it's expensive.

Christine


----------



## DaMirrorLink

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I'm trying to inspire a new "Bromance novel".

I like this attitude.









Ooooo I'm looking forward to seeing what you think of it!! What kind of Dell keyboard do you have right now?












this one, the left shift has a burn mark on it cause it was my brothers but he gave it to me after he went psycho and broke my Saitek Eclipse red LED keyboard, I still miss that keyboard


----------



## nijikon5

Just tried gaming it up with the ABS M1 ( BC2, TF2, and SC2 ). I completely understand now why having a tactile bump is a disadvantage. Although the M1 was pretty good overall and will blow out most non-Mechanicals, people who really buy peripherals primarily to game should get a Linear switch.

For other uses though, I definitely see the appeal of the Tactile clicky and non-clicky Keyboards. Now i want a Tactile Clicky KB, this is a damn addiction.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Just tried gaming it up with the ABS M1 ( BC2, TF2, and SC2 ). I completely understand now why having a tactile bump is a disadvantage. Although the M1 was pretty good overall and will blow out most non-Mechanicals, people who really buy peripherals primarily to game should get a Linear switch.

For other uses though, I definitely see the appeal of the Tactile clicky and non-clicky Keyboards. Now i want a Tactile Clicky KB, this is a damn addiction.


You can always do what I did, and tediously go through removing the tactile leaf on each switch to make it linear (only I did it on an AT101W). Heck, you could even bend the leaf to make them click. I tried it on one, and it works, but you'd have to find a way to get them all consistent, and get it to click at the right time.

I've been using my other tactile one though. I haven't decided if I like linear all the time. You should really consider this before doing the mod, I'm sure it's even more tedious to put the tactile leaf back in the switches







. I need to try that rubber band mod and see if I can get this thing a little quieter.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Just tried gaming it up with the ABS M1 ( BC2, TF2, and SC2 ). I completely understand now why having a tactile bump is a disadvantage. Although the M1 was pretty good overall and will blow out most non-Mechanicals, people who really buy peripherals primarily to game should get a Linear switch.

For other uses though, I definitely see the appeal of the Tactile clicky and non-clicky Keyboards. Now i want a Tactile Clicky KB, this is a damn addiction.


Zenith, Compaq, Mitsubishi and Sharp have Complicated Alps that are Linear. wouldn't mind trying those!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


You can always do what I did, and tediously go through removing the tactile leaf on each switch to make it linear (only I did it on an AT101W). Heck, you could even bend the leaf to make them click. I tried it on one, and it works, but you'd have to find a way to get them all consistent, and get it to click at the right time.

I've been using my other tactile one though. I haven't decided if I like linear all the time. You should really consider this before doing the mod, I'm sure it's even more tedious to put the tactile leaf back in the switches







. I need to try that rubber band mod and see if I can get this thing a little quieter.


consistency would be difficult, even if you achieve it the author of the mod over at geekhack says the click isn't pronounced like a Complicated Alps. it takes away from the authenticity but there isn't anything authentic about ***kas. Complicated Alps that are Linear have no slots for the leaf, if the thickness of a keycap can influence a switch than a empty slot must also.

Christine


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


You can always do what I did, and tediously go through removing the tactile leaf on each switch to make it linear (only I did it on an AT101W). Heck, you could even bend the leaf to make them click. I tried it on one, and it works, but you'd have to find a way to get them all consistent, and get it to click at the right time.

I've been using my other tactile one though. I haven't decided if I like linear all the time. You should really consider this before doing the mod, I'm sure it's even more tedious to put the tactile leaf back in the switches







. I need to try that rubber band mod and see if I can get this thing a little quieter.


Hehe, thanks for the tips drjoey, but I already have a Filco Linear and 7G







. I like the ABS M1 for what it is! Awesome mechanical starter KB for the price for most users. I feel bad for all the people who missed out on this killer deal. It is honestly a pleasure to use overall.

I just prefer my 2 Cherry Black MX KBs as far as gaming goes. Typing, not so much which really makes me want to get Blues or Buckling springs or White Alps.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Zenith, Compaq, Mitsubishi and Sharp have Complicated Alps that are Linear. wouldn't mind trying those!

consistency would be difficult, even if you achieve it the author of the mod over at geekhack says the click isn't pronounced like a Complicated Alps. it takes away from the authenticity. Linear alps have no slots for the leaf. if the thickness of a keycap can influence bottoming out than a empty slot must also.

Christine


This mechanical keyboard world is sure addicting. Can't stop trying different types. Feel like a manwhore, "Not a playa, I just type a lot".

By the way, did you ever get your 24inch CRT?

I tried my buddies Viewsonic true 120hz the other weekend. Sniping felt so good in BFBC2. Felt like Keanu Reeves when he just learned Kung Fu in the Matrix.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


This mechanical keyboard world is sure addicting. Can't stop trying different types. Feel like a manwhore, "Not a playa, I just type a lot".

By the way, did you ever get your 24inch CRT?

I tried my buddies Viewsonic true 120hz the other weekend. Sniping felt so good in BFBC2. Felt like Keanu Reeves when he just learned Kung Fu in the Matrix.


Yeah, nothing beats CRTs when it comes to gaming. Well, plasmas _could_, except they don't make them using a 1:1 input:screen pixel ratio like you'd want on a PC (as in, one pixel from the PC equates to exactly 3 subpixels - on a TV it can be many more). Plus they'd have to modify graphics cards to output a 600Hz signal instead of the current 450Hz max (if I remember right).


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


This mechanical keyboard world is sure addicting. Can't stop trying different types. Feel like a manwhore, "Not a playa, I just type a lot".

By the way, did you ever get your 24inch CRT?

I tried my buddies Viewsonic true 120hz the other weekend. Sniping felt so good in BFBC2. Felt like Keanu Reeves when he just learned Kung Fu in the Matrix.


I could purchase one but it will cost over $300 US. i'm thinking of a Mitsubishi Diamondpro or Diamondtron (NEC) or another Dell with a Trinitron Tube. if you guys are interested in a CRT monitor comparison and a wealth of knowledge to be had see here.

funny thing is if I quit smoking I could probably own a Deck Legend, Cherry G80-3494 and Guruboard eventually lol

Christine


----------



## nijikon5

True story, used to smoke reds and 27s.

How much are a pack of smokes in Canada?

With all these taxes and what no in California, getting pretty expensive here. Glad I quit a long time ago.


----------



## lmnop

last time I checked $10 a pack. Nat Sherman is the best cigarette I have ever had.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DaMirrorLink* 









this one, the left shift has a burn mark on it cause it was my brothers but he gave it to me after he went psycho and broke my Saitek Eclipse red LED keyboard, I still miss that keyboard









Oh hey, I had that exact same keyboard at a job once and I really loved it. I kinda miss it. However - and of course - it's garbage compared to what I have now.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
Hehe, thanks for the tips drjoey, but I already have a Filco Linear and 7G







. I like the ABS M1 for what it is! Awesome mechanical starter KB for the price for most users. I feel bad for all the people who missed out on this killer deal. It is honestly a pleasure to use overall.

I just prefer my 2 Cherry Black MX KBs as far as gaming goes. Typing, not so much which really makes me want to get Blues or Buckling springs or White Alps.

Oh hey, I almost forgot to ask: can you give a quick comparison between the ABS M1 and the Majestouch Linear Force? I mean, I know you have a review in the planning, but I know of a couple different people in this thread who might need to know right now.

*Edit:* Oh hey, I just noticed that I began both replies here with "Oh hey". Maybe I should consider changing it...

Nah. I kinda like it. Oh hey, wait a sec: Oh wait, nevermind. False alarm.


----------



## DaMirrorLink

yea the keyboard isnt bad or anything, but $20 for a mechanical keyboard? i was getting death threats in the ocn vent if i DIDNT buy it >.>


----------



## clownfart

Just a heads up, Ducky has a new variety to add to their awesome keyboards:


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clownfart*


Just a heads up, Ducky has a new variety to add to their awesome keyboards:











if KBC doesn't find a distributor in North America... i'm sending Gunny in, the man that has stolen the heart of my boyfriend.













IMDB has a thread of people smitten by Gunny.

Christine


----------



## W4LNUT5

I'm typing on the M1 now. It's ok. Has a better feel than a rubber dome, but typing is relatively awkward.

The keys don't all seem to take the same pressure at the moment (might just need to be broken in). It also seems louder when you do not bottom out, because you can hear the spring ringing along with the plastic shifting on the switch. Bottoming out gives you a deeper thud (that doesn't continue to ring for a second), which in this case is the more appealing sound. lol

I suppose if they had a click as well as tactile feedback, the sound of the springs and plastic would be less noticeable. With some breaking however, I think the added noises will subside.

It really is a starter mechanical keyboard. Better served as a gateway to get into mechanical keyboards. I can feel the difference in quality in comparison to my Deck. The difference in price between my Deck and the ABS (after shipping) is $150+, and this ABS keyboard certainly doesn't feel quite that far away from the deck by any means.

If this had been my first mechanical board, I'd probably be in love right now. But as it is, I'm already married to my Deck.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
I'm typing on the M1 now. It's ok. Has a better feel than a rubber dome, but typing is relatively awkward.

The keys don't all seem to take the same pressure at the moment (might just need to be broken in). It also seems louder when you do not bottom out, because you can hear the spring ringing along with the plastic shifting on the switch. Bottoming out gives you a deeper thud (that doesn't continue to ring for a second), which in this case is the more appealing sound. lol

I suppose if they had a click as well as tactile feedback, the sound of the springs and plastic would be less noticeable. With some breaking however, I think the added noises will subside.

It really is a starter mechanical keyboard. Better served as a gateway to get into mechanical keyboards. I can feel the difference in quality in comparison to my Deck. The difference in price between my Deck and the ABS (after shipping) is $150+, and this ABS keyboard certainly doesn't feel quite that far away from the deck by any means.

If this had been my first mechanical board, I'd probably be in love right now. But as it is, I'm already married to my Deck.









that's because there is $75 of LED on a Deck keyboard! Deck has a thicker casing, better keycaps, controller and a thicker, longer steel plate! look at it lol










if the IBM Model M is a tiger tank, this is easily a panzer.

Christine


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
that's because there is $75 of LED on a Deck keyboard! Deck has better keycaps, controller and a thicker, longer steel plate.

Christine

Oh I know all about the differences.

For $20 bucks, this thing is great, but it does have quite a few annoyances that come with it.

The LEDs really is blinding if you look straight into them also. I'm thinking of going to radio shack and grabbing something less powerful (frequency. maybe red), and some resistors. It would be worth the effort.

Oh, and the blocking really is terrible around the wasd cluster. You can only push 2-3 at a time. Pressing W+S+D (w+e+d also does this) at the same time produces nothing at all. I haven't spent much time on it, and I suspect there might be more combos like this.

At other place on the keyboard, you can push 6 keys at one time with no repercussions at all.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Oh I know all about the differences.

For $20 bucks, this thing is great, but it does have quite a few annoyances that come with it.

The LEDs really is blinding if you look straight into them also. I'm thinking of going to radio shack and grabbing something less powerful (frequency. maybe red), and some resistors. It would be worth the effort.

Oh, and the blocking really is terrible around the wasd cluster. You can only push 2-3 at a time. Pressing W+S+D (w+e+d also does this) at the same time produces nothing at all. I haven't spent much time on it, and I suspect there might be more combos like this.

At other place on the keyboard, you can push 6 keys at one time with no repercussions at all.

try clear nail polish.

Christine


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


if KBC doesn't find a distributor in North America... i'm sending Gunny in, the man that has stolen the heart of my boyfriend.






IMDB has a thread of people smitten by Gunny.

Christine


I thought you were talkin about "The Gunny"


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


try clear nail polish.

Christine


Hmmm. That is indeed a simpler solution.

Leave it to an engineer to over complicate a simple solution. Still might be fun to bust out the soldering iron for some mods


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
Just tried gaming it up with the ABS M1 ( BC2, TF2, and SC2 ). I completely understand now why having a tactile bump is a disadvantage. Although the M1 was pretty good overall and will blow out most non-Mechanicals, people who really buy peripherals primarily to game should get a Linear switch.

For other uses though, I definitely see the appeal of the Tactile clicky and non-clicky Keyboards. Now i want a Tactile Clicky KB, this is a damn addiction.

Yep thats what I feel. Im looking in to Cherry Blacks from 6gv2 hopefully they release it soon.


----------



## identitycrisis

After missing out on the ABS M1 as my 1st mech. keyboard, I am craving one, but man they are expensive for some nice ones. My g15 has served me well, but with my now MUCH smaller desk, I cant use the keyboard tray with the keyboard and mouse, so I want to find something much smaller, maybe even something without the numpads or an ultra slim numpad or something.

from what I have read something with MX Blacks for gaming is ideal, but not so good for typing? and blue is more for both?


----------



## yawnbox

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yann3804* 
Could I ask : How do you feel when typing on your majestouch?

How is it superior to rubber dome, in your opinion?

I'm just trying to get some opinions because I did order a majestouch but it was a last minute buy.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Like I said: I have the Tactile Click NKRO, and I can almost guarantee you that you're going to love it; for the first time in my entire life, I am happier with my keyboard than I am with my entire computer system. I wouldn't trade the Tactile Click NKRO for anything in the world.

And yeah, the Tactile Click is indeed the board with the Cherry MX Blues.



seconded. really. if i had just one belonging, i think my filco would win over a pair of shoes. huge, huge improvement from my Razer Lycosa. every time i sit down at my computer i think of how wonderful it is to type with this keyboard.


----------



## olli3

Got purple WASD keys and a red ESC key for my filco today. Not sure if I like them on together though...seems too many colours considering everything else I have is black. Might put the black ESC back on..will see if it grows on me first though.


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


if KBC doesn't find a distributor in North America... i'm sending Gunny in, the man that has stolen the heart of my boyfriend.






IMDB has a thread of people smitten by Gunny.

Christine


i agree, i would buy these only if it were easy to buy (english- like elitekeyboards) with blank keys and extra

Quote:



Originally Posted by *olli3*


Got purple WASD keys and a red ESC key for my filco today. Not sure if I like them on together though...seems too many colours considering everything else I have is black. Might put the black ESC back on..will see if it grows on me first though.


pics please, i wanna see how it looks too


----------



## Marin

Need a Filco keyboard that's good for both gaming and typing. Go!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


Need a Filco keyboard that's good for both gaming and typing. Go!


Filco Tactile Touch NKRO


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *identitycrisis*


After missing out on the ABS M1 as my 1st mech. keyboard, I am craving one, but man they are expensive for some nice ones. My g15 has served me well, but with my now MUCH smaller desk, I cant use the keyboard tray with the keyboard and mouse, so I want to find something much smaller, maybe even something without the numpads or an ultra slim numpad or something.

from what I have read something with MX Blacks for gaming is ideal, but not so good for typing? and blue is more for both?


Blues are ideal for typing. Blacks are ideal for gaming. Browns are a compromise.

Here's a list of common or notable "old" mechanical keyboards, with pictures and some basic info:
http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...keyboards.html
Look in thrift stores, charity stores, electronics recycling stores, schools and offices and shops that might be upgrading, dumpsters, garage sales, and eBay/Craigslist, or see what's for sale on here or Geekhack.org.


----------



## Marin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Filco Tactile Touch NKRO


But what switches?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


But what switches?


http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...pid=fkbn104meb

It only comes with Cherry MX Brown switches.

Tactile Click = Cherry MX Blues
Linear Force = Cherry MX Blacks


----------



## DaMirrorLink

I just got mine, well I got back and it was on my porch, its a little awkward to type on it but I am sure that I just need to get used to typing on it, it doesn't require as much effort to type on it as it did on my dell keyboard, and the sound of typing on this sounds so much more fulfilling as it sounds like I am typing really really fast when I really am not, and I like how the spacebar has a different sound to it when it bottoms out then the rest of the keyboard, I tried to take a key off to have a look at the mechanical switch underneath but I couldn't get it off, maybe I just didn't apply enough pressure, didn't wanna break it lol.


----------



## olli3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234*


pics please, i wanna see how it looks too


Took these on my phone so sorry for quality, couldn't be bothered to get my camera out lol.



















and one without the esc for comparison










What's everyone think? I think I like it without the red better.

note- the coloured keys look a bit brighter than they actually do, although they are not far off, think the flash caught them more or something.


----------



## DaMirrorLink

Oh man, I was pressing keys for comparison on my old keyboard and to me it feels like GARBAGE now, the keys are bland feeling and they just feel like you are pushing the rubber down!


----------



## drjoey1500

I'm still a little skeptical about mechanical keyboards tbh. I think the main thing that attracts me to them is mod potential.

Sure, my old logitech was crap because the keys would stick sometimes, like if you tried to press them at an angle they wouldn't go down. But now I'm typing on this keyboard that sounds like a typewriter. For typing it's easy to see how they're better than rubber domes, but not for gaming. A few days ago I tried my friend's microsoft ergonomic keyboard (4000 I believe, rubber dome anyhow). It is really quiet, and doesn't have the same key-sticking problem my logitech had. Not only that, but it requires much less force to press the keys, so pressing a key repeatedly is really easy. Compared to a mechanical keyboard, the keys obviously felt very soft. I read lots of people complaining about mushy rubber dome keyboards on here, but I still don't see how that is bad for gaming. IMO it wasn't really mushy, the keys just felt soft, easy to press, and quiet.

Here's my reasoning. Most gamers bottom out the keys regardless of the switch type, so it doesn't really matter that mechanical keyboards actuate before being bottomed out. Other than that, as long as the rubber dome doesn't have a crappy inconsistent feel when the keys are pressed, I see very little reason to have a mechanical keyboard







.

I'll be blunt. The clacky noise is a huge turn off for me. In order to get the keys not to bottom out, I have to type impractically slowly and carefully. I haven't checked recently, but when I first got my at101w, my typing speed couldn't match my typing speed on my thinkpad (better than my logitech though).

Forgive me for my heresy, but this still doesn't quite make sense. Am I just using the wrong kind of switches? There's no way I'm spending 200+ on a Topre board, keyboards are just too far down on my list of priorities to put that much money into one.

Don't get me wrong, I haven't given up on them yet. I'm just thinking through my options.

Maybe it's time to switch back to my linear keyboard







.


----------



## olli3

For gaming I would agree with you, there's not really much difference from a rubber dome to a mechanical in my experience. The main attraction to them for me and probably for most people is for typing I think.

Also about the noise, I think its really worth learning not to bottom keys out when typing, it really made my typing much much faster and more comfortable for me. I was quite surprised what a speed boost i got from doing it. My keyboard with MX browns is no louder than a rubber dome board when not bottoming out so noise isn't an issue for me, and for games they are noisy anyway so I don't notice lol, not sure if that's a problem for you or not.

Also, if an AT101 is the only board you have then perhaps try another board, I started on that and while I found that it was nicer than a rubber dome board its nothing compared to my MX browns.

If you are happy using rubber domes then there's not really any harm in sticking with them though, at least you know you have tried a mech board


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


I read lots of people complaining about mushy rubber dome keyboards on here, but I still don't see how that is bad for gaming. IMO it wasn't really mushy, the keys just felt soft, easy to press, and quiet.

Here's my reasoning. Most gamers bottom out the keys regardless of the switch type, so it doesn't really matter that mechanical keyboards actuate before being bottomed out. Other than that, as long as the rubber dome doesn't have a crappy inconsistent feel when the keys are pressed, I see very little reason to have a mechanical keyboard







.


Personally, I absolutely love my thinkpad's keyboard, and I think it's better for gaming than most mechanical switches. But that's because it's not only soft at the bottom, but it still has that nice _snap_ to it so that you can really FEEL when you've hit the key (SNES and PSX/PS2 controllers were like this when new too). With a G15 I can't tell what I'm doing at all, and I'd still prefer to use almost any mechanical board over it.

To top all of this off, there ARE mechanical switches that have a soft landing, and there are ways to mod one in too.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


I'll be blunt. The clacky noise is a huge turn off for me. In order to get the keys not to bottom out, I have to type impractically slowly and carefully. I haven't checked recently, but when I first got my at101w, my typing speed couldn't match my typing speed on my thinkpad (better than my logitech though).


That's always how it is when you start on mechanical boards. You know how when you first learn to touch-type, you're told to just type really slow as long as you get all the letters right, then on your own you'll end up faster without losing accuracy? Same thing here.

Now, that being said, if it's really THAT hard for you to control then you might want to look into a heavier switch. A Model M should do the trick for you I think, it's always a good starting point for people with heavy fingers. You'll always need to adjust a little bit to each new switch type that you use, but it shouldn't be THAT hard.


----------



## DaMirrorLink

I honestly don't see much of a difference when gaming with this keyboard, I just LOVE to hear the clack of the keyboard, I mean it just gives me so much gratification to hear it, then again I also like to type on older keyboards







Like manyak, I don't really like the key just going down silently, it gives no reward for it, I like a nice CLACK sound


----------



## reedo

just picked up my new baby on the e bay. cherry mx blacks, double shot keys and an on-board touch pad all bnib, life is good man. and its all thanks to Christine


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reedo*


just picked up my new baby on the e bay. cherry mx blacks, double shot keys and an on-board touch pad all bnib, life is good man. and its all thanks to Christine


you're welcome! you know whats interesting all the Cherry G80-11900 I have seen have laser etched keycaps as the "L" in the model number suggest but this one has double shot keycaps.

only one I could find with double shot keycaps is a Chinese or Japanese layout.










there is also supposed to be a Cherry logo underneath the status indicators.

Christine


----------



## Crazy9000

That's an interesting keyboard. Could be good to bring places if you're going to work on a pc, since you wouldn't have to have a mouse. Of course you'd have to not mind using a touchpad, but I think they work fine for just windows desktop.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
That's an interesting keyboard. Could be good to bring places if you're going to work on a pc, since you wouldn't have to have a mouse. Of course you'd have to not mind using a touchpad, but I think they work fine for just windows desktop.

The 11800 and 11900 were designed to be used in server rack console drawers:


----------



## reedo

yea, the touch pad is interesting, but it does not seem to play nicely with 7, maybe i just need to enable legacy support in the bios?

oh and here are back panel pics


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *reedo* 
yea, the touch pad is interesting, but it does not seem to play nicely with 7, maybe i just need to enable legacy support in the bios?

oh and here are back panel pics

thank you.

the H stands for well I don't know but it always stands for Double Shot.

how much did you pay for it? these sell for $130+ brand new according to several sources in google.

Christine


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I have a (apparently) lightly used MX-11800, with the trackball. Great keyboard, but the layout can be annoying at times.

Great find!


----------



## lmnop

this was what you were supposed to get, the seller neglected to mention it was in klingon. he should of posted the model number it's a 11908 not a 11900.

Christine


----------



## reedo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


thank you.

the H stands for well I don't know but it always stands for Double Shot.

how much did you pay for it? these sell for $130+ brand new according to several sources in google.

Christine


awesome, I only shelled out $50.75 for it, Christine you are my new hero.

Quote:



this was what you were supposed to get, the seller neglected to mention it was in klingon. he should of posted the model number it's a 11908 not a 11900.

Christine


i don't think he knew, the box was unopened, thats the original seal


----------



## reedo

so anyone have any ideas on getting the touchpad working? (shoot sorry for the double post)


----------



## lmnop

oh well Karma will strike him down. you said you were only using it for gaming right? w, s, a, d, space, ctrl, shift. least you got a keyboard you can harvest some switches and keycaps from.

I can't remember the switch you were using before was it Alps? how do you like the Cherry MX Black Linear.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *identitycrisis*


After missing out on the ABS M1 as my 1st mech. keyboard, I am craving one, but man they are expensive for some nice ones. My g15 has served me well, but with my now MUCH smaller desk, I cant use the keyboard tray with the keyboard and mouse, so I want to find something much smaller, maybe even something without the numpads or an ultra slim numpad or something.

from what I have read something with MX Blacks for gaming is ideal, but not so good for typing? and blue is more for both?


The only thing I can add is this: be sure to consider all of the popular switch types just in case your gut instinct steers you towards something else that you feel that you'd like even more. However, the Cherry MX Browns are definitely a safe and very smart choice for this.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yawnbox*


seconded. really. if i had just one belonging, i think my filco would win over a pair of shoes.


Y'know, it's funny: I almost said that the Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO is just about my most favorite possession out of everything I own - including my entire drum set (which I'm very passionate about).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yawnbox*


huge, huge improvement from my Razer Lycosa. every time i sit down at my computer i think of how wonderful it is to type with this keyboard.


Exactly. I upgraded from the Lycosa too, and I am finding that I'm constantly looking for excuses to type. If I had it my way, then I would probably be typing on this thing pretty much 24/7.

In other words: now that I have this keyboard, I get kind of excited when I have a post like this to type up. I mean, I have always enjoyed making these posts, but now that I have the Majestouch Tactile Click, I enjoy it for a whole new reason now and I enjoy it much more than ever.

I love everything about this keyboard, and there is absolutely nothing I would change about it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


Need a Filco keyboard that's good for both gaming and typing. Go!


I think that almost any good keyboard with the Cherry MX Browns is a good choice for this.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


But what switches?


Following Tater Tot's answer to this, the reason it's called the Tactile _Touch_ as opposed to the Tactile _Click_ is because the Cherry MX Brown switch itself does not make any sound when a key is pressed. It is easiest to realize this when slowly pressing a single key without bottoming out that keycap against the body of the keyboard.

But the Cherry MX Blue makes a subtle and crisp click sound which is similar to the click of a retractable pen, but quieter. I think that the mechanics that create this click sound also cause the switch to require a little bit more force than the Cherry MX Browns. However, that's not to say that the Cherry MX Blues are stiff or anything. But they're noticeably different. In comparison to the Cherry MX Blues, the Cherry MX Browns lean towards being linear in even though there's still a tactile bump (a bit of resistance at the beginning of the keystroke). It's just that the tactile bump of the Cherry MX Blues is more pronounced and gives the keys a crisper, more precise feeling. But technically speaking, the Blues are much less suited for gaming than the Cherry MX Blacks and Browns. But this isn't to say that they're absolutely not an option (and some people even prefer the Blues over anything for gaming - it's always a matter of personal preference).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DaMirrorLink*


Oh man, I was pressing keys for comparison on my old keyboard and to me it feels like GARBAGE now, the keys are bland feeling and they just feel like you are pushing the rubber down!


Yep! And this is why I openly say that I feel that all rubber dome switch boards are nothing more than extremely overpriced junk.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


I'm still a little skeptical about mechanical keyboards tbh. I think the main thing that attracts me to them is mod potential.


Another nice thing about mechanical keyboards is that they can last about 20 years or more as opposed to the 5-7 years (on average) of rubber dome switch boards.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


Sure, my old logitech was crap because the keys would stick sometimes, like if you tried to press them at an angle they wouldn't go down. But now I'm typing on this keyboard that sounds like a typewriter. For typing it's easy to see how they're better than rubber domes, but not for gaming. A few days ago I tried my friend's microsoft ergonomic keyboard (4000 I believe, rubber dome anyhow). It is really quiet, and doesn't have the same key-sticking problem my logitech had. Not only that, but it requires much less force to press the keys, so pressing a key repeatedly is really easy. Compared to a mechanical keyboard, the keys obviously felt very soft. I read lots of people complaining about mushy rubber dome keyboards on here, but I still don't see how that is bad for gaming. IMO it wasn't really mushy, the keys just felt soft, easy to press, and quiet.

Here's my reasoning. Most gamers bottom out the keys regardless of the switch type, so it doesn't really matter that mechanical keyboards actuate before being bottomed out. Other than that, as long as the rubber dome doesn't have a crappy inconsistent feel when the keys are pressed, I see very little reason to have a mechanical keyboard







.


Once you find a switch type that you like the best, you'll be happier. But here are some reasons why mechanical keyboards are superior:

Much, much higher build quality on average.
Much longer lifespan: I think one rubber dome/contact area is rated for about 5 million keypresses before it either stops working, or becomes very worn out to the point where the key must be pressed harder in order to work (and sometimes it gets to the point where the key only works sometimes if it doesn't stop working completely). But a single mechanical switch can be rated for about 100,000,000 (a hundred million) key presses and even continue going a little while after that. Not only that, but the feel of the switch remains consistent throughout its entire life - it doesn't degrade or slowly begin to feel mushy and worn out (well, it does a little bit, but hardly enough to notice).
No rubber dome switch keyboard has full NKRO (or "full Anti-Ghosting across the entire keyboard", as some manufacturers might say).
With the right switches, a mechanical keyboard can be your most favorite possession. You could end up wanting to type on or use the keyboard 24/7 without stopping just because it's such a pleasure.
Mechanical keyboards are heavier and don't move around on the desk with normal daily use like most rubber dome keyboards do. (I'm talking just millimeters of movement here.)
When a single key on a rubber dome keyboard stops working, that's it: it's done. But with a mechanical keyboard, you can replace the switch with one you never use (like the switch for the Scroll Lock key).
So continuing from the previous point: it's awesome that mechanical keyboards have an individual, independent switch for each key as opposed to one big rubber sheet with molded domes for all of the keys. In other words: that's at least 104 individual switches compared to just 1.
And again, mechanical keyboards last significantly longer than rubber dome switch boards.
Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


I'll be blunt. The clacky noise is a huge turn off for me. In order to get the keys not to bottom out, I have to type impractically slowly and carefully. I haven't checked recently, but when I first got my at101w, my typing speed couldn't match my typing speed on my thinkpad (better than my logitech though).


The Thinkpad is indeed a pleasure to type on, however what you're experiencing with the AT101W is absolutely normal. I am sorry that somebody didn't tell you beforehand so that you could have expected this.

You see, I have to do the same thing on my Majestouch Tactile Click in order to not bottom out: I have to practice typing painfully slowly in order to learn how to type without bottoming out. This is because new "muscle memory" must be created which I can eventually use automatically to my advantage to never bottom out thereby greatly improving my typing and usage experience.

In other words, I had to do the same thing: I had to type very slowly and very carefully too. I still do it once in a while since I've only had this keyboard for a month and a half, and it's absolutely worth it. Not only does it reduce the noise, but it's *way* easier to type and I think that it really highlights one of the reasons why mechanical keyboards are superior.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


Forgive me for my heresy, but this still doesn't quite make sense. Am I just using the wrong kind of switches? There's no way I'm spending 200+ on a Topre board, keyboards are just too far down on my list of priorities to put that much money into one.

Don't get me wrong, I haven't given up on them yet. I'm just thinking through my options.

Maybe it's time to switch back to my linear keyboard







.


I agree that it does sound like the AT101W is just not a good match for you. So, I think that you're discovering what you like and don't like and you're making it easier to find your favorite type of mechanical switch. Or, maybe I should say that you have already made it easier.


----------



## clownfart

Damn 3 days left on this NIB 84key Model M and it's at $200. Last one I saw (from the same seller too) went for $211.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clownfart*


Damn 3 days left on this NIB 84key Model M and it's at $200. Last one I saw (from the same seller too) went for $211.


Oh yeah, that's always been their price. Even the used ones go for over $100.


----------



## DaMirrorLink

Quote:



Originally Posted by *identitycrisis*


After missing out on the ABS M1 as my 1st mech. keyboard, I am craving one, but man they are expensive for some nice ones. My g15 has served me well, but with my now MUCH smaller desk, I cant use the keyboard tray with the keyboard and mouse, so I want to find something much smaller, maybe even something without the numpads or an ultra slim numpad or something.

from what I have read something with MX Blacks for gaming is ideal, but not so good for typing? and blue is more for both?


You know, I thought that the keyboard was gonna take up as much room as my dell one did, and I am on a slide out tray, and now that I have this I can tell you that you will actually have some more space than you already have. I can actually see half of my mousepad LOL


----------



## Genkaz92

I was pleased to discover that I own a relatively old mechanical keyboard:

Album: http://img16.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=img0151oe.jpg

I removed the case because it had a useless empty space above the actual keyboard: http://img714.imageshack.us/i/img0155hm.jpg/

Would you recommend or describe anything for it?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

A Dell AT101W, fairly common, not bad. Some people hate them, some love them. The switches are original "complicated" black Alps switches. If you like, that means they're compatible with the custom keycaps we're setting up to order (look in sig).


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


A Dell AT101W, fairly common, not bad. Some people hate them, some love them. The switches are original "complicated" black Alps switches. If you like, that means they're compatible with the custom keycaps we're setting up to order (look in sig).










Thank you very much, I will crash test this thing. I am most likely planning to replace the whole key layout with black keys, and possibly get a different cover for it, if such an operation is possible.

Or perhaps such actions are too pricy, starting with smaller key amounts could be a better idea (such as editing the WASD and the ESC)


----------



## Phaedrus2129

For the cost of modifying it the way you want you could probably get a better keyboard brand new. You could get an ABS M1 for fairly cheap, see if you prefer the original Alps or the ***ka imitation Alps, and if you prefer the originals do a switch swap... Tedious and you have to use a soldering iron, but key feel is key feel.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


For the cost of modifying it the way you want you could probably get a better keyboard brand new. You could get an ABS M1 for fairly cheap, see if you prefer the original Alps or the ***ka imitation Alps, and if you prefer the originals do a switch swap... Tedious and you have to use a soldering iron, but key feel is key feel.










Is an M1 superior to this model? I am under a light impression that they are quite similar.

One more thing, at the moment I am using a Sidewinder X6, are you aware of the key system that it uses?

I would not want to abandon it, the Dell one will most likely be used for secondary operations.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The M1 has much better aesthetics and build quality, but it uses fake Alps switches with a different feel. Some people prefer the originals, some people prefer the fakes.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genkaz92*


Is an M1 superior to this model? I am under a light impression that they are quite similar.

One more thing, at the moment I am using a Sidewinder X6, are you aware of the key system that it uses?

I would not want to abandon it, the Dell one will most likely be used for secondary operations.


the ABS M1 has a better rollover but it has a transposition problem. the Dell AT101W has Complicated Alps and laser etched keycaps so I would say they are even score.

rubber dome.

Christine


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
the ABS M1 has a better rollover but it has a transposition problem. the Dell AT101W has Complicated Alps and laser etched keycaps so I would say they are even score.

rubber dome.

Christine

Thank you very much, I am not sure whether it is a good idea to go as far as making that Dell my main keyboard, Sidewinder has a few very nifty features that I became quite used to, such as the ridiculously awesome volume control knob on the top right.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Thank you very much, I am not sure whether it is a good idea to go as far as making that Dell my main keyboard, Sidewinder has a few very nifty features that I became quite used to, such as the ridiculously awesome volume control knob on the top right.

you're welcome. see I use a Logitech control pod on my Z-5500 and another on my Z-680 so I don't have any use for media keys. the Dell AT101W and ABS M1 are starter keyboards, I wouldn't use them as a daily driver but I would use them over the Microsoft Sidewinder X6.

Christine


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
you're welcome. see I use a Logitech control pod on my Z-5500 and another on my Z-680 so I don't have any use for media keys. the Dell AT101W and ABS M1 are starter keyboards, I wouldn't use them as a daily driver but I would use them over the Microsoft Sidewinder X6.

Christine

what would you actually use as a daily keyboard? Personally I consider the sidewinder to be far from being the worst keyboard in the world, although I should have probably done more research when looking for a keyboard., it would be nice if I stumbled upon this thread before purchasing it.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

For their daily drive a lot of people like the various Cherry MX switches, in particular blues (clicky) and browns (tactile). I'm using a Compq MX-11800 with MX Browns as my DD right now, very solid keyboard, though the layout can be annoying at times.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
For their daily drive a lot of people like the various Cherry MX switches, in particular blues (clicky) and browns (tactile). I'm using a Compq MX-11800 with MX Browns as my DD right now, very solid keyboard, though the layout can be annoying at times.

It does have a very unique structure.


----------



## lmnop

it's not a bad keyboard but I think it's to expensive for the materials, performance and quality.

*My Wish List*

Cherry G80-5000
Cherry G80-3494
Deck Legend
Christine


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
it's not a bad keyboard but I think it's to expensive for the materials, performance and quality.

*My Wish List*

Cherry G80-5000
Cherry G80-3494
Deck Legend
Christine

Which keyboard did you mean?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Which keyboard did you mean?

in that order, top to bottom.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genkaz92*


Which keyboard did you mean?


The Compaq MX-11800.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Expensive? MX browns for $25? Naaaaah.

Though I did get it used. Does Compaq still sell these? I know you can still get Cherry MX-11900s in Europe.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


For the cost of modifying it the way you want you could probably get a better keyboard brand new. You could get an ABS M1 for fairly cheap, see if you prefer the original Alps or the ***ka imitation Alps, and if you prefer the originals do a switch swap... Tedious and you have to use a soldering iron, but key feel is key feel.




















Christine


----------



## TwoCables

I just suddenly became curious: regarding the Majestouch boards, what is the material used to make the body/casing?


----------



## olli3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I just suddenly became curious: regarding the Majestouch boards, what is the material used to make the body/casing?


Not sure, but wikipedia says:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic*

Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene (ABS) 
Electronic equipment cases (e.g., computer monitors, printers, keyboards), drainage pipe.


That is assuming majestouch boards are made from the same stuff as a regular board, but I'd imagine it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylon...adiene_styrene


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *olli3*


Not sure, but wikipedia says:

That is assuming majestouch boards are made from the same stuff as a regular board, but I'd imagine it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylon...adiene_styrene


I have actually been assuming that it's ABS since the ABS M1 and the Majestouch look like they're made from the exact same material. Plus, it's freakin' solid.


----------



## JiminyBillyBob

Does anyone know if I can get a Majestouch with an eu layout?
eg. a large enter button and the <>| button next to left ****?


----------



## clownfart

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JiminyBillyBob* 
Does anyone know if I can get a Majestouch with an eu layout?
eg. a large enter button and the <>| button next to left ****?

http://www.keyboardco.com/


----------



## lmnop

the keycaps on the Filco are definitely polystyrene. the casing could also be polystyrene or polycarbonate.

Christine


----------



## nijikon5

Going to be giving the 7G some love this weekend. With that said, already missing the Filco.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I just suddenly became curious: regarding the Majestouch boards, what is the material used to make the body/casing?


It's some variant of PC I think.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *olli3*


Not sure, but wikipedia says:

That is assuming majestouch boards are made from the same stuff as a regular board, but I'd imagine it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylon...adiene_styrene


"Regular" boards are definitely not made from ABS. ABS is pretty much the strongest plastic used in computer equipment - like on the Model M and Topres. "Regular" keyboard are mostly PVC.


----------



## Dezeer

Hey Manyak, have you seen this http://translate.google.com/translat...&sl=auto&tl=en page which has pictures from different switches and good pictures how they work.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dezeer*


Hey Manyak, have you seen this http://translate.google.com/translat...&sl=auto&tl=en page which has pictures from different switches and good pictures how they work.


Yup, know all about it


----------



## TwoCables

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Dezeer*   Hey Manyak, have you seen this http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpark16.wakwak.com %2F~ex4%2Fkb%2Ftech_cherry_mx.htm&sl=auto&tl=en page which has pictures from different switches and good pictures how they work.  
Whoa!! I've been looking like this for a long time now, but I didn't know how to ask for it! Thanks to this, I now have a *much*, much clearer understanding of how the Cherry MX switches work! My favorite part is the Flash animation of the Cherry MX Blue that they included at the end of all of their explaining, pictures, and diagrams:

  
 http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech/cherry_mx_click.swf  <!-- AME - Generic SWF --> 



*Right-Click and Select "Play" to start movie. 
Plus, I love everything else that is explained. Now if only a web page like this existed that was created in English. But hey, if there is one, then I want to see it. I'd love to see one that's just as good as this one or better! But damn, this page is more than I could _ever_ ask for. I now know everything that I have been wanting to know for at least the past 2 or 3 months.

Awesome. Thank you, Dezeer.


----------



## olli3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


"Regular" boards are definitely not made from ABS. ABS is pretty much the strongest plastic used in computer equipment - like on the Model M and Topres. "Regular" keyboard are mostly PVC.


my bad, I just assumed that if it said keyboards were abs on wiki that that would mean a bog standard kb. guess not ;p


----------



## cgg123321

I'm having trouble gaming with my Model M







Is it just the "learning curve" or is the model M considered to have a very hard switch?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

It is fairly stiff at 70g, it takes a little while to get used to it. It isn't really a gaming keyboard, its only advantage is that the actuation and reset points are exactly the same, otherwise it isn't very good for gaming; average rollover, heavy, tactile, loudly clicky, very large. For typing it's still considered one of the best, but it isn't really intended for gaming.


----------



## cgg123321

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
It is fairly stiff at 70g, it takes a little while to get used to it. It isn't really a gaming keyboard, its only advantage is that the actuation and reset points are exactly the same, otherwise it isn't very good for gaming; average rollover, heavy, tactile, loudly clicky, very large. For typing it's still considered one of the best, but it isn't really intended for gaming.

Aw okay, thanks for the reply.

+rep


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


It's some variant of PC I think.

"Regular" boards are definitely not made from ABS. ABS is pretty much the strongest plastic used in computer equipment - like on the Model M and Topres. "Regular" keyboard are mostly PVC.


i'm pretty sure POM is stronger and lighter than ABS. I think I remember reading a comment from ripster about a rit dye test he did with a Filco keycap and a piece of Lego (ABS) and the Filco keycap melted before the piece of Lego got soft. Polystyrene starts deforming at 70'c and melts at 100'c I think.

Christine


----------



## rfjunkie

My POS cherry keyboard that I picked up off of eBay a few weeks ago with brown switches... Its taken me a little while to get used to it, but I actually think I am a little bit faster on this keyboard...

Just need to figure out what to do with the extra keys and credit card slot... lol

I downloaded the software from cherry to program the keys.. Just not sure what I'm doing quite yet.

edit- I swapped out a couple of the keys on this board for a couple that were double shot.... can you tell what keys they were???

another edit.... I'm beginning to really like these brown switches... I might end up ordering a Filco with browns next.. (I'm beginning to see a trend here.... I keep buying keyboards to find the perfect one.. not sure if thats possible.)


----------



## lmnop

Esc, Print Screen?

I like Cherry laser etched keycaps because they look close to double shot except double shot printing looks a bit softer.

Christine


----------



## rfjunkie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Esc, Print Screen?

I like Cherry laser etched keycaps because they look close to double shot except double shot printing looks a bit softer.

Christine


They do kinda jump out at you, don't they.

I got those off of another POS keyboard that has all double shot keys... I just didn't like the covers on my esc and prt sc keys.. I would rather have them normal keys.

edit.... The only trouble I'm having with this keyboard is the right shift key is a little to small for my liking.. I was thinking about removing the up arrow to get myself used to having a smaller shift key on that side, and put it back in a couple weeks when I get used to it. ( I keep hitting that up arrow key when I go for that shift key...)


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rfjunkie*


They do kinda jump out at you, don't they.

I got those off of another POS keyboard that has all double shot keys... I just didn't like the covers on my esc and prt sc keys.. I would rather have them normal keys.


I was always good at Where's Waldo!









compare the letter Q from a Cherry laser etched keycap and double shot keycap you can tell the difference.

*Edit*: why don't you try changing the spacebars. they are most likely different plastics. you may like one spacebar over the other.

ripster updated his Anti-Otaku island.










Christine


----------



## rfjunkie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I was always good at Where's Waldo!









compare the letter Q from a Cherry laser etched keycap and double shot keycap you can tell the difference.

*Edit*: why don't you try changing the spacebars. they are most likely different plastics. you may like one spacebar over the other.

ripster updated his Anti-Otaku island.

Christine



I might mess with that later. Right now I'm going to just mess with what I have here until I get tired of it and go back to my Filco with the XM's... I have really gotten used to the sharp tactile feel of that keyboard. I really like it for gaming on my gaming rig... (I have 2 of them)..... BUT!!! I am really getting used to using this keyboard with the browns for typing on... My 10 key on the left of my keyboard has browns in it too.. (its a Kinesis) The only problem I have with that is the (-) key doesn't always work, and I didn't notice it right away. (Might have to dig into it and replace a switch.)

Well thats it for my rambling for one day...... (Off to bed.)


----------



## exe163

Anyone know where I can get a wirless Filco or something similar?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *exe163* 
Anyone know where I can get a wirless Filco or something similar?

it won't be out for a while.

Christine


----------



## skcheng

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I was always good at Where's Waldo!









compare the letter Q from a Cherry laser etched keycap and double shot keycap you can tell the difference.

*Edit*: why don't you try changing the spacebars. they are most likely different plastics. you may like one spacebar over the other.

ripster updated his Anti-Otaku island.










Christine



The space bar is the problem. I moved the off-center stem but the stabilizers are in different positions. I realized that after I took the time/trouble to move the stem. Might be easier to lower the height of the existing Filco space bar, but it's been fine as-is.

Did you see my most recent DS conversion:



















Cherry Green Space Bar:


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


i'm pretty sure POM is stronger and lighter than ABS. I think I remember reading a comment from ripster about a rit dye test he did with a Filco keycap and a piece of Lego (ABS) and the Filco keycap melted before the piece of Lego got soft. Polystyrene starts deforming at 70'c and melts at 100'c I think.

Christine


But they don't really use POM for computer equipment other than water blocks. It's very tough, but it also has very little friction - not exactly what you'd want on a keyboard at least.

And yeah, ABS melts at 160C or 170C or something like that if I remember right.


----------



## olli3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *skcheng*


The space bar is the problem. I moved the off-center stem but the stabilizers are in different positions. I realized that after I took the time/trouble to move the stem. Might be easier to lower the height of the existing Filco space bar, but it's been fine as-is.

Did you see my most recent DS conversion:

Cherry Green Space Bar:


Sorry for off topic, but, I noticed your yoyo! You into yoyoing? I've been doing it for about 9 months now and have quite a collection, just curious if you share the same interests too haha


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *skcheng*


The space bar is the problem. I moved the off-center stem but the stabilizers are in different positions. I realized that after I took the time/trouble to move the stem. Might be easier to lower the height of the existing Filco space bar, but it's been fine as-is.

Did you see my most recent DS conversion:



















Cherry Green Space Bar:











that looks really nice cheng.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


But they don't really use POM for computer equipment other than water blocks. It's very tough, but it also has very little friction - not exactly what you'd want on a keyboard at least.

And yeah, ABS melts at 160C or 170C or something like that if I remember right.


I don't see it being a problem if the surface of the keycap is slippery, if that is the trade off for a stronger, lighter and abrasion proof plastic.

Christine


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 

I don't see it being a problem if the surface of the keycap is slippery, if that is the trade off for a stronger, lighter and abrasion proof plastic.

Christine

I would disagree here; I had to use a keyboard with slippery keycaps once, and it was a terrible experience.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I would disagree here; I had to use a keyboard with slippery keycaps once, and it was a terrible experience.

I agree. One of the things I actually liked about the Razer Lycosa was the rubber coating on the keycaps. However, this doesn't mean that I would enjoy a rubber coating on my Majestouch's keys.


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

are there even any red cherry keyboards? Ive only seen one haha


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234*


are there even any red cherry keyboards? Ive only seen one haha


Ducky Limited Edition, Cherry G80-3600, Cherry G80-3494, Guru Board.

Christine


----------



## clownfart

Small 7G and 6Gv2 comparison. http://translate.googleusercontent.c...XoEk55ap90pAew

Right shift key was made smaller. :/


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clownfart* 
Small 7G and 6Gv2 comparison. http://translate.googleusercontent.c...XoEk55ap90pAew

Right shift key was made smaller. :/

I emailed a steelseries rep asking him when the 6gv2 would be released and he said Mid-June. So ya. Looking forward to it. Also my local frys sells the 7g and im planning on going over and tring the keys out. Everyday I seem to be getting more and more used to my ABS M1 thou. Im still bottoming out and that wont change.


----------



## skcheng

Quote:


Originally Posted by *olli3* 
Sorry for off topic, but, I noticed your yoyo! You into yoyoing? I've been doing it for about 9 months now and have quite a collection, just curious if you share the same interests too haha









Yup. I'm a collector of toys and junk. Exotic pool cues, rare LPs, custom flashlights, yo-yos new and old, and now keyboards. The one in the picture is one of my favorites, an Atomic Cow hand painted YYJ Hitman. Just awesome.....I have four of them.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Ducky Limited Edition, Cherry G80-3600, Cherry G80-3494, Guru Board.

Christine


Cousins are currently going to search for the 3494. If you have any info where I can get it in China ( Nanjing / Shanghai area ), please let me know.

Aunt is coming back home in 2 weeks and I'm hoping to get it by then







.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Cousins are currently going to search for the 3494. If you have any info where I can get it in China ( Nanjing / Shanghai area ), please let me know.

Aunt is coming back home in 2 weeks and I'm hoping to get it by then







.


that is great









apparently Kip69 hasn't been around. some other people and export companies and charging so much it makes the wait for the Guru-Board worth it.

China? I have no idea. I think you should talk to Chao or someone else at geekhack. I think Chao bought his 3600 in Tokyo.

Christine


----------



## KipH

I am here. Just have not found many good deals. If you know where in Taiwan to buy let me know. They don't use the numbers for Cherey boards here, they use a name and its in Chinese, so its been frustrating looking. Sorry. I call my shop again


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


I am here. Just have not found many good deals. If you know where in Taiwan to buy let me know. They don't use the numbers for Cherey boards here, they use a name and its in Chinese, so its been frustrating looking. Sorry. I call my shop again










if you do cp2010 is interested in buying one. someone at geekhack mentioned this.

Quote:



1. Write an e-mail to inpad at hotmail dot com, indicating the stuff that you want to buy
2. Request a quote with your shipping address included
3. I think they do accept international money orders or Western Union (he asked me to use it last time, but I managed to get my friend to bank in to him in Taiwan)
4. Wait for your stuff to arrive.


however inpad.com.tw is now out of 3494 and 3600









Christine


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


I am here. Just have not found many good deals. If you know where in Taiwan to buy let me know. They don't use the numbers for Cherey boards here, they use a name and its in Chinese, so its been frustrating looking. Sorry. I call my shop again










http://goods.ruten.com.tw/item/show?21003069917716 this is the one you posted with the multi language layout.

what about taobao?

Christine


----------



## KipH

That one is 4,700$NT. Not the 2000 you were thinking







My I-rocks was cheaper here than there but only just and not enough for shipping.

Taobao is Chinese and not Taiwan







very different, even sort of at war with each other.

When I go to computex in June I can find some new ones for you all







and take pictures because they usualy don't sell.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
Cousins are currently going to search for the 3494. If you have any info where I can get it in China ( Nanjing / Shanghai area ), please let me know.

Aunt is coming back home in 2 weeks and I'm hoping to get it by then







.

I'm also interested in one, so make sure you pick an extra one up


----------



## xcowboy

Hello guys I am not sure if its not OT but i wanna upgrade from my g15 to some mechanical KB. I am gaming a lot and i like backlit keys. Also I am worried about is the "click" sound. I dont want it to be too loud. 
I found theese:
Deck Legend Linear switches
Deck Legend Tactile switches
Is this what i should look at?


----------



## Crazy9000

I suggest the linear keys for gaming. They also don't click so that solves that as well lol.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Both are excellent if you can afford them. They're some of the best keyboards on the market.


----------



## xcowboy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I suggest the linear keys for gaming. They also don't click so that solves that as well lol.


Thanks a lot. Thats what i was hoping to hear. I was worried that the KB with linear switches are going to be louder then the tactile switches.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Both are excellent if you can afford them. They're some of the best keyboards on the market.


I dont mind to pay a little extra for quality items. And i can afford it as long as my GF dont know about it


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xcowboy*


Thanks a lot. Thats what i was hoping to hear. I was worried that the KB with linear switches are going to be louder then the tactile switches.

I dont mind to pay a little extra for quality items. And i can afford it as long as my GF dont know about it


I have the Deck with the Tactile switches. It's a great keyboard.

If you're gaming mostly, I'd opt for the linear "black" switches (even though I don't feel like I'm hindered while gaming with my clear switches)


----------



## xcowboy

Thank you very much for advice guys. So i try to get the linear one. One more question: Where did u got your Deck from? The only place I saw them is Performance-PCs (170+17$ Shipping) and Amazon( 230-330$







) Is there any other store where i should look for it?


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xcowboy*


Thank you very much for advice guys. So i try to get the linear one. One more question: Where did u got your Deck from? The only place I saw them is Performance-PCs (170+17$ Shipping) and Amazon( 230-330$







) Is there any other store where i should look for it?


I purchased it straight from Deck
http://www.deckkeyboards.com/

The "Fire" is their cheapest 105-key linear keyboard, at $149
http://www.deckkeyboards.com/product...products_id=53

Their absolute cheapest keyboard is the smaller Ice-82, at $110
http://www.deckkeyboards.com/product...products_id=30


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xcowboy* 
Thank you very much for advice guys. So i try to get the linear one. One more question: Where did u got your Deck from? The only place I saw them is Performance-PCs (170+17$ Shipping) and Amazon( 230-330$







) Is there any other store where i should look for it?

Strait from Deck, they have the best prices.


----------



## yann3804

Tator_Tot,

Would you choose the : Filco 104 key or Das model S?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yann3804*


Tator_Tot,

Would you choose the : Filco 104 key or Das model S?


I don't know much about Das boards. But I know some of the old ones have problems, and they are finger print magnets.

I'd choose the Filco over most other boards personally, because they offer some of the best prices for Mechanical boards with good switches & NKRO.


----------



## Crazy9000

The newer Das keyboards don't have the problems, and do have NKRO.

I don't think most people would really care about the issue with the older das keyboard anyways; I know I've never ran into it myself.


----------



## yann3804

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


The newer Das keyboards don't have the problems, and do have NKRO.

I don't think most people would really care about the issue with the older das keyboard anyways; I know I've never ran into it myself.


They do not have Full-NKRO.

Only 6 keys can be registered to the computer at the same time because of the USB capabilities. (I think that even if you use PS/2 on the Das, it won't help.)

But yeah, the filco was $170 (I bought it) and the Das model S Pro was only $110.

Seems like some of the OCN'ers prefer the Das over the Filco, that scared me.

By the way, thank you Tator Tot.


----------



## Tator Tot

No problem.

And the New Das keyboards support full-NRKO as long as they are connected to PS2.


----------



## skcheng

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I don't know much about Das boards. But I know some of the old ones have problems, and they are finger print magnets.

I'd choose the Filco over most other boards personally, because they offer some of the best prices for Mechanical boards with good switches & NKRO.



They're the same board for all practical purposes built by the same company. The Das is more fully featured with USB ports (I don't know why people complain so much about the location of the ports.....anyone not have USB extension cables??) and media functions on some of the models. And they're cheaper from a certain computer internet sales site that starts with the word "Side".

But yeah, if fingerprint smudges bother you.....then maybe don't bother. I personally don't touch the frame of my keyboard much. Just the keys.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xcowboy*


Hello guys I am not sure if its not OT but i wanna upgrade from my g15 to some mechanical KB. I am gaming a lot and i like backlit keys. Also I am worried about is the "click" sound. I dont want it to be too loud. 
I found theese:
Deck Legend Linear switches
Deck Legend Tactile switches
Is this what i should look at?


The click that the Cherry MX Blues make is like the sound a retractable pen makes, but quieter. It's actually (and surprisingly) a rather satisfying sound, and it's not loud in any sense of the word. The sound of the keycaps bottoming out against the body of the keyboard is louder than the click the Cherry MX Blues make. I mean, when tapping a key quickly so that the keycap hits the bottom and makes that "clack" sound, it's louder than the click that the switch itself makes (sometimes _much _louder).

But if gaming is the primary use and if you're also not much of a typist, then a 100% linear switch such as the Cherry MX Blacks might be the best option. But if you're also a typist, then I think that a switch with a tactile feedback is a good option.

But almost every mechanical keyboard can be noisy or loud when bottoming out the keys relatively hard as opposed to just pressing them just hard enough to send the keystroke to the computer (which happens before the keycap makes contact against the keyboard as you're pressing the key down).

As you can tell, choosing the right switch type is the first thing you may want to do.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yann3804*


They do not have Full-NKRO.

Only 6 keys can be registered to the computer at the same time because of the USB capabilities. (I think that even if you use PS/2 on the Das, it won't help.)


Fortunately, the current Model S keyboards now have full NKRO when using the included USB to PS/2 adapter. But when not using the adapter, then the limitation is to USB spec, which is 6 keys + 4 modifiers (like Shift, Ctrl, etc.).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yann3804*


But yeah, the filco was $170 (I bought it) and the Das model S Pro was only $110.

Seems like some of the OCN'ers prefer the Das over the Filco, that scared me.


This is because it all boils down to personal preference. In the end, the only person in the entire world who can decide what the best keyboard is for you is *you*.


----------



## drjoey1500

Do any of you know if there is a program like autohotkey for macs? It doesn't even have to be as good as autohotkey, just for remapping keys. Anything any of you have used before that would be easy for noobs?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *skcheng*


They're the same board for all practical purposes built by the same company. The Das is more fully featured with USB ports (I don't know why people complain so much about the location of the ports.....anyone not have USB extension cables??) and media functions on some of the models. And they're cheaper from a certain computer internet sales site that starts with the word "Side".

But yeah, if fingerprint smudges bother you.....then maybe don't bother. I personally don't touch the frame of my keyboard much. Just the keys.


nice find.

Christine


----------



## clownfart

Or bring out the sandblaster.

DIY matte finish.


----------



## yann3804

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


nice find.

Christine


Mm...

I guess they're the same build quality then.


----------



## lmnop

that one is the Model S Professional, the one you were looking for. didn't know you could find it for $99 as well in America.

Christine


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yann3804*


Mm...

I guess they're the same build quality then.


Yep. That's what we've been trying to say. That's what that article says too over at Geek Hack where it ends with saying that when comparing the Model S to the Filco Majestouch NKRO boards, it simply boils down to personal preference.


----------



## lmnop

steelseries 6Gv2 rollover test

USB









PS/2









keycaps are laser etched









Christine


----------



## clownfart

Just like we expected, same except for minor key layout change, no hub/phone jacks, and not palm rest.


----------



## W4LNUT5

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...bo8WGWAuCdOpLg

Link to the Program as I wanted it. lol (can't try it because I'm not at my computer)

Hopefully the link still works after I post it.

Also, a link to the entire article Christine was referencing (via google translate)
http://translate.google.com/translat....tw/%26hl%3Den

(it keeps redirecting, but it's on page 2)


----------



## clownfart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


http://translate.googleusercontent.c...bo8WGWAuCdOpLg

Link to the Program as I wanted it. lol

Hopefully the link still works after I post it.


That looks like an old version, here's ver 1.
This is ver2 Beta 3 (Beta 4 is latest but rar needs a pass)


----------



## Dezeer

I have used program called keyjam (key jammer). It came in with some open source game. The program should give same results as any other tester.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


This is because it all boils down to personal preference. In the end, the only person in the entire world who can decide what the best keyboard is for you is *you*.


I think you're missing the point he's making, which is that it could very well be worth the large price difference for the small difference between the keyboards, even if you prefer the filco slightly.


----------



## lmnop

here is a unbox video if anyone is interested.

http://www.viddler.com/explore/TestFreaks/videos/371/

Christine


----------



## yann3804

If TwoCables didn't have salesman talents, I would have chosen the DasKeyboard.

I'm serious.


----------



## nijikon5

My cousins got back to me, the shop said that it will take around a month to get the Cherry 3494 in stock. Aunt leaves in 2 1/2 weeks though :/.

Here's hoping that Taobao might be able to deliver this under 2 weeks :x.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I think you're missing the point he's making, which is that it could very well be worth the large price difference for the small difference between the keyboards, even if you prefer the filco slightly.


Actually, what he was saying was that after he ordered the Filco, he started to notice that some people on here prefer the Das keyboard over the Filco, and that scared him; it made him begin to think that perhaps he made a bad purchase (which is something that he has expressed several times now in a different way each time). It made him think that perhaps he just made a huge mistake and that he bought an inferior, or perhaps a "bad" mechanical keyboard.

So therefore, I felt that I needed to once again tell him that they're almost equals and that the reason why some people prefer it over the Filco is simply due to personal preference. It's like comparing two of the best shoes in a particular category (like running shoes) and then having varying opinions on these shoes all over the place. I'm not saying that these are the two best keyboards, but I'm just saying that since we're only comparing these two, then it's _like_ my comparison.

Crazy9000, I know that you don't know the following, so I'll fill you in: our friend Yann has been going back and forth on his feelings of the Tactile Click NKRO ever since he ordered it. He hasn't received it yet, but he's flip-flopping due to seeing some people say that the Tactile Click NKRO is superior to the Model S Professional, and yet others saying that the Model S Professional is the superior keyboard.

Unfortunately, some people (who shall remain nameless) tried to convince Yann that the Model S Professional crushes the Tactile Click NKRO. So therefore, when I saw him say _"Seems like some of the OCN'ers prefer the Das over the Filco, that scared me."_, I knew that I had to once again ease his mind by saying that it all boils down to personal preference.

So no: I didn't miss anything at all.


----------



## W4LNUT5

What's up with these "Ducky" keyboards I've come across recently? They look like a filco clone


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Unfortunately, some people (who shall remain nameless) tried to convince Yann that the Model S Professional crushes the Tactile Click NKRO. So therefore, when I saw him say _"Seems like some of the OCN'ers prefer the Das over the Filco, that scared me."_, I knew that I had to once again ease his mind by saying that it all boils down to personal preference.


I agree, the Das doesn't "blow the filco out of the water." That is an exaggeration. They both have things people might prefer. I just wish you wouldn't jump on people when they make their argument for the Das, and just point out why you prefer the filco.

From what I've seen, Yann had to get the keyboard imported because they don't sell them where he lives. That will mean you'll be the only one with that keyboard pretty much, which I think will add to the cool factor. I'm sure he will be satisfied with his purchase, as Twocables has pointed out, it is a nice keyboard.


----------



## clownfart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


What's up with these "Ducky" keyboards I've come across recently? They look like a filco clone


The DK-9000 and DK-9008 are like better Filcos with a few more features.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t...ight=ducky+kbc

And where to buy. Will cost a lot to get imported though.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I agree, the Das doesn't "blow the filco out of the water." That is an exaggeration. They both have things people might prefer.

Thank you. This is all I'm saying.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I just wish you wouldn't jump on people when they make their argument for the Das, and just point out why you prefer the filco.

Who are you talking to? If you're talking to me, then I have a big problem with this statement:

I do not _"jump"_ on people when they make their argument for the Das when they are simply stating their opinion. Why do I say this? Because when somebody simply says that they prefer the Das, then that's fine. That's their opinion and I respect it. But when they try to assert that it more or less crushes other boards like the Filcos, then that's when I have a problem with it. Why do I have a problem with it? Because some people might read such statements and feel that the Filco boards are absolutely not an option. Therefore, it pisses me off when somebody says things that has the potential of limiting somebody's options who really doesn't know any better.

What if I were to say that the Tactile Click NKRO is far superior to the Das Model S? Just imagine if I were to basically talk about the Model S in such a way that causes somebody else to say things like, _".....but I ordered the Das Model S because I thought it was a good board. Now I feel like I wasted my money. This sucks... I wish I would have waited"._ Exactly. I have always kept my comments about the Tactile Click NKRO limited to the reasons why *I* like this board and why it's the best one *for me*. I have never said that the Das Model S is crap. Every single time you have seen me make the kind of comments you're talking about, it's me defending a person's freedom to make up their own mind. Or, it is sometimes me repeating the reasons why I chose the Filco over the Model S. I have never said the kind of things you seem to think I've said.

Instead of bashing other mechanical keyboards, I want to help encourage anyone who is trying to make a decision to consider every mechanical keyboard that they come across instead of leaving some of them out of the picture. After all, this will enable them to make up their own mind on what keyboard is best for them right after they have figured out which switch type they want. It may also encourage them to ask about their final decision before ordering.

So I don't know what you're talking about, but if you *were* talking to me, then you severely misunderstood me.


----------



## clownfart

New 87key keyboard!

Looks like it used Cherry MX switches but he doesn't say specifically *EDIT*: apparently it's browns. Also that's not back lighting, the metal plate is painted orange.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kant1971*
Introduce Full metal mechanical keyboard.
Detail spec is as below.

- Dark Gray body color
- Full alumnium body
- USB
- N key rollover function
- Alumninum Metal frame
- MX brown Switch
- US ASCII 87 Key
- Aluminium metal frame with orange color
- Aluminum keyboard stand
- Laser cut keycap printing

We will make english site and english blog for introduce this keyboard.
Please send mail to me if you have interesting or question.

My email adress is kant1971 at hitel.net

Thank you.










More pics here.


----------



## olli3

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clownfart* 
New 87key keyboard!

Looks like it used Cherry MX switches but he doesn't say specifically *EDIT*: apparently it's browns. Also that's not back lighting, the metal plate is painted orange.

More pics here.

Awww I thought that was back lighting for a second, still a really cool board though.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clownfart* 
The DK-9000 and DK-9008 are like better Filcos with a few more features.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t...ight=ducky+kbc

And where to buy. Will cost a lot to get imported though.











I've seen some Ducky boards on ebay for roughly the same price as a filco ($130-150)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ducky-104-Nkey-C...item414ee826db

Edit: WOW, $80 shipping. I see what you mean now.

I'd rather buy a HHKB for that price


----------



## Otterclock

plus when you get a board like that imported you pretty much have no recourse if anything goes wrong with it.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Otterclock* 
plus when you get a board like that imported you pretty much have no recourse if anything goes wrong with it.

But damn is it a nice board.

I think I might take it over an HHKB because of the layout, familiarity of MX browns, and just the sheer class it emanates. Just look at the key profile shots. That is sexy. Mmm.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
But damn is it a nice board.

I think I might take it over an HHKB because of the layout, familiarity of MX browns, and just the sheer class it emanates. Just look at the key profile shots. That is sexy. Mmm.

realforce?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Then it would be $215 shipped vs. $250 shipped.







Plus, I think Otaku would get boring pretty quick. I mean, yeah, the minimalist aesthetic is neat, and it's fun to watch people struggle to use your computer, but it's like comparing a Ferrari F430 to a BMW M3. Sure, the Ferrari looks sleek and new aged and maybe it can run a race course faster, but the BMW is still kick-ass and has that classic look to it. Plus, it's a BMW. **** Ferrari.


----------



## lmnop

if Kip69 can ship a G80-3494 to America from Taiwan for $170 I am sure it won't cost much.

inpad.com.tw

Ducky 104 with Media Keys cost $105 US
Ducky 108 with Media Keys and Hot Keys cost $110 US.
Ducky 108 with Media Keys, Hot Keys, extra Keycaps and a Keycap Puller cost $120 US.

$50 shipping tops.

of course you get to choose your switch and I think they all come with White W, S, A, D Keycaps.

the stock Keycaps are made out of ABS and PBT. the printing is Laser Etched. USB cable is not hard wired so if your cable ever dies or want to extend it you can replace it this is a feature the Gigabyte GK-K8000 had which I thought was rather neat. the Cherry MX Switches look like they are mounted high because the Keycaps are barely inside the face plate and of course the Media Keys and Hot Keys.

Blank








Black on Grey








White on Black








Extra Keycaps








USB, White W, S, A, D.


----------



## garricktlee

Yeah personal preference, I come to love my Filco.
was in the same predicament when i ordered mine,
did more research because i never do enough before the purchase.
Found many saying Das is better which made me question my purchase.
Then I took a long look at both keyboards and realized Filco is sexier and fits my taste.
To some the Das doesnt look fancy, but it does to me.
Too fancy for me, gives me that "It looks like an overpriced gaming keyboard" lol


----------



## soloz2

I really like the look of black on grey keys.


----------



## olli3

Yeah black on grey looks great, gives the look of blank ones but you can sneak a peak in times when you are unsure xD

I love that usb setup too, where you can remove the cable, and also route it down the left, right or centre depending on how your desk is laid out. I miss that from the at101 I had.


----------



## Crazy9000

Any recommendations on a decently priced extension cable for ps/2 ? I went to frys but all they seemed to have were KVM switches.


----------



## clownfart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Any recommendations on a decently priced extension cable for ps/2 ? I went to frys but all they seemed to have were KVM switches.


http://www.monoprice.com/products/su...&cs_id=1020401


----------



## W4LNUT5

Yann might find this an interesting thread. lol
http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ed-my-das.html


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Yann might find this an interesting thread. lol
http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ed-my-das.html

I admit that I thought of Yann the minute I saw it. However, something tells me that this is a very rare occurrence.

But at the same time, I'm not surprised that he's experiencing this.


----------



## yann3804

Hmm.

Thing is both keyboards are manufactured by Costar.

My Filco is coming tomorrow! (Item processed at postal facility, 2pm, Montreal)


----------



## Xombie

Any mechanical keyboards out there with dedicated media control keys?

I'd love a mechanical keyboard but I don't want to sacrifice the volume rocker on my G15 v.1 or on a G110 etc.


----------



## KipH

Auto hot key is the answer to that. Some one will link you in a moment. I had a g15g2 and don't miss it at all. I even found the answer to backlighting. CostCo had usb powered light bars on a flexi atena thing (they are for book reading at night). Plug it into my IRock and its instant ilumination.

And I just noticed two PMs. I missed them somehow, so I will respond here. I have not found great deals here but some boards that are hard to get I can get, like the ducky and the cherry. They go for about $5000NT. Look for Christin's links (lmnop). Shipping will make the difference.

BUT: I will be coming to Canada this June. I can bring 2 or 3 back with me then to Western Canada. First come first get.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
Auto hot key is the answer to that. Some one will link you in a moment. I had a g15g2 and don't miss it at all. I even found the answer to backlighting. CostCo had usb powered light bars on a flexi atena thing (they are for book reading at night). Plug it into my IRock and its instant ilumination.

And I just noticed two PMs. I missed them somehow, so I will respond here. I have not found great deals here but some boards that are hard to get I can get, like the ducky and the cherry. They go for about $5000NT. Look for Christin's links (lmnop). Shipping will make the difference.

BUT: I will be coming to Canada this June. I can bring 2 or 3 back with me then to Western Canada. First come first get.

I call dibs on one of the Cherry Reds boards that you can bring back.

Just tell me how much that is in USD, lol.


----------



## TwoCables

Can you guys remove those images from www.kbdmania.net? Their server is about as slow as dial-up which is really killing the page load times for this thread.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Xombie*


Any mechanical keyboards out there with dedicated media control keys?

I'd love a mechanical keyboard but I don't want to sacrifice the volume rocker on my G15 v.1 or on a G110 etc.


There are some, but there's also AutoHotKey. It uses scripts that you can either create yourself, or you can get one or more from their message board.

But one keyboard I can think of right now that has media keys is the Das Model S Professional, the Ultimate and the Silent. http://www.daskeyboard.com/ (but avoid the ones that are *not* the Model S).

However, I want you to know one thing: I upgraded from both the G15 and the Lycosa to the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO, and I thought that I knew I would really miss the media keys. But I don't! I haven't even looked into AutoHotKey yet. I'm finding that while I really enjoyed the media keys, I actually don't need them even though I thought I did.


----------



## Xombie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


There are some, but there's also AutoHotKey. It uses scripts that you can either create yourself, or you can get one or more from their message board.

But one keyboard I can think of right now that has media keys is the Das Model S Professional, the Ultimate and the Silent. http://www.daskeyboard.com/ (but avoid the ones that are *not* the Model S).

However, I want you to know one thing: I upgraded from both the G15 and the Lycosa to the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO, and I thought that I knew I would really miss the media keys. But I don't! I haven't even looked into AutoHotKey yet. I'm finding that while I really enjoyed the media keys, I actually don't need them even though I thought I did.


I was looking into the Das Model 2 Professional (Silent maybe? Is it worth getting over the regular?)... But I noticed that they discontinued the model with media control functions...









Still looks nice though.

Right now I absolutely love my setup... Logitech G15 v1 and Z-10s, each with a GamePanel LCD. I can look at either display to see what song is playing, what time it is, etc. And because the speakers are USB, the awesome "turntable-esque" volume rocker on the G15 controls not only system volume, but the volume of the speakers as well. So it's perfect.

However, I'm looking to purchase a new setup for college. Since the Z-10s are discontinued (really disappointing, they had phenomenal sound for 2.0s!) I'll be buying a set of speakers that connects via Audio In/Out, so a keyboard volume rocker that controls only system volume probably wouldn't be as effective. And because I'll be typing a lot in college, I want the most comfortable keyboard I can get... And hopefully one that doesn't drive my roommate insane (hence, the silent model?).

Question is: Will I miss my GamePanel display? Or my play/pause? <-- Super important IMO. Will I notice that much of a difference with the mechanical keyboard in terms of comfort, etc.?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Xombie*


I was looking into the Das Model 2 Professional (Silent maybe? Is it worth getting over the regular?)... But I noticed that they discontinued the model with media control functions...









Still looks nice though.

Right now I absolutely love my setup... Logitech G15 v1 and Z-10s, each with a GamePanel LCD. I can look at either display to see what song is playing, what time it is, etc. And because the speakers are USB, the awesome "turntable-esque" volume rocker on the G15 controls not only system volume, but the volume of the speakers as well. So it's perfect.

However, I'm looking to purchase a new setup for college. Since the Z-10s are discontinued (really disappointing, they had phenomenal sound for 2.0s!) I'll be buying a set of speakers that connects via Audio In/Out, so a keyboard volume rocker that controls only system volume probably wouldn't be as effective. And because I'll be typing a lot in college, I want the most comfortable keyboard I can get... And hopefully one that doesn't drive my roommate insane (hence, the silent model?).

Question is: Will I miss my GamePanel display? Or my play/pause? <-- Super important IMO. Will I notice that much of a difference with the mechanical keyboard in terms of comfort, etc.?


Oh those bastards did indeed discontinue it...

Anyway, the Silent model is referring to the switch type used: the Cherry MX Browns. It's not that the keyboard is silent, but it's that the switch itself doesn't make any noise. But if bottoming out the keycaps against the body of the keyboard, it will still make noise due to that "clack" sound (which depends on how hard you tap the keys). However, it's a light switch so it is therefore easier to press the keys which means that it's easier to type without bottoming out - or at least it's easier to reduce the _sound_ of bottoming out since you can press the keys so easily.

So, the Silent model is indeed quieter, but it is by no means rubber-quiet. However, this doesn't mean that the others (the Professional and the Ultimate) that have the Cherry MX Blues are loud. I mean, the click of this switch is like the click of a retractable pen, only quieter. The sound of bottoming out is louder than the click of the switches. The tactile feedback of the Cherry MX Blues also makes the typing experience seem more precise because this tactile feedback is crisper, or more pronounced than with the Cherry MX Browns.

For an idea of how loud a keyboard can get with the Cherry MX Blues, I recommend watching some or all of the related YouTube videos found in these search results:

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...Mozilla-search

But will you miss the LCD display and the media keys? I don't know. I know that I don't miss a single thing about the G15 or the Lycosa, and I have the Majestouch! I think it's just one of those "wait and see" situations.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Xombie* 
I was looking into the Das Model 2 Professional (Silent maybe? Is it worth getting over the regular?)... But I noticed that they discontinued the model with media control functions...









Still looks nice though.

Right now I absolutely love my setup... Logitech G15 v1 and Z-10s, each with a GamePanel LCD. I can look at either display to see what song is playing, what time it is, etc. And because the speakers are USB, the awesome "turntable-esque" volume rocker on the G15 controls not only system volume, but the volume of the speakers as well. So it's perfect.

However, I'm looking to purchase a new setup for college. Since the Z-10s are discontinued (really disappointing, they had phenomenal sound for 2.0s!) I'll be buying a set of speakers that connects via Audio In/Out, so a keyboard volume rocker that controls only system volume probably wouldn't be as effective. And because I'll be typing a lot in college, I want the most comfortable keyboard I can get... And hopefully one that doesn't drive my roommate insane (hence, the silent model?).

Question is: Will I miss my GamePanel display? Or my play/pause? <-- Super important IMO. Will I notice that much of a difference with the mechanical keyboard in terms of comfort, etc.?

Das Model S Professional $99.95 @ Sidewindercomputers


----------



## yann3804

Wow.

$100? Amazing deal.


----------



## lmnop

sidewinder computers return policy

Quote:



Return Policy

Nondefective Merchandise
Sidewinder Computers offers a 30-day money-back guarantee, with a 15 percent restocking fee, on most of the products we sell. For any reason, you may return your purchase for a full refund of the purchase price less applicable restocking fees and original shipping costs, but only during the first 30 days of the shipping date. We do not accept returns for refund on the following items: Complete Liquid Cooling kits, opened box Heatsinks or Watercooling products, Tubing, or any blister packaged/sealed products.


have to pay the restocking fee aka stupid tax but at least you can return it.


----------



## ljason8eg

God that's tempting at $100. Just got the M1 but I want to try something nicer.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ljason8eg*


God that's tempting at $100. Just got the M1 but I want to try something nicer.


it's also discontinued actually all the Media Key layouts are discontinued and replaced with standard Windows Key layouts so the value should increase.

if you can get one for under $115 shipped that is a pretty good deal.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


it's also discontinued actually all the Media Key layouts are discontinued and replaced with standard Windows Key layouts so the value should increase.

if you can get one for under $115 shipped that is a pretty good deal.


Yeah and I personally would prefer the media keys as opposed to a Windows key. Must...resist...urge.


----------



## Xombie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Das Model S Professional $99.95 @ Sidewindercomputers



Do want.

Question before I buy one - How easy are mechanical keyboards to clean? I remember that you could toss Model Ms into the dishwasher... How about these?

Also, are there any upcoming releases for mechanical keyboards this summer and/or over the next few months that may be worth waiting for over the Das?

And is there a manufacturer warranty? If the keyboard stops reporting keys 6 months in, what kind of assistance would Das provide?

Thanks!


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Xombie* 


Do want.

Question before I buy one - How easy are mechanical keyboards to clean? I remember that you could toss Model Ms into the dishwasher... How about these?

Also, are there any upcoming releases for mechanical keyboards this summer and/or over the next few months that may be worth waiting for over the Das?

And is there a manufacturer warranty? If the keyboard stops reporting keys 6 months in, what kind of assistance would Das provide?

Thanks!

I would never put a Model M in a dishwasher. blasphemy. <slap>

most mechanical keyboard enthusiast will disassemble it entirely.

no.

same as any other company. 1 year limited warranty. see here.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

How I clean any keyboard:

1.) Disassemble it

2.) Run outer casing through dishwasher

3.) Soak keycaps in dilute isopropyl alcohol or soapy water (former for better cleaning, latter if it's pad printed)

4.) Clean any plates or PCBs with 70%+ isopropyl alcohol and Q-tips

5.) Do NOT disassemble any switches or major assemblies (ie the Model M's membranes, plates, and springs). Clean the exteriors of such gently with ispropyl alcohol

6.) Allow everything to dry, and reassemble

A thorough cleaning like that is usually only necessary if you spill something on it, or if you get it in very grimy condition... Shouldn't need to do it more than once every few years. In between times, just blow it out with compressed air every couple months or so.


----------



## mightydre

I was reading, I think on Amazon, that Das keyboards had usb issues--didn't work sometimes, or just didn't play nice with other usb devices. Is this still an issue or is it something that's been fixed ?

Also, is EliteKeyboards the only place to get Filco keyboards in the US ? Their prices could be better..

If one were to ignore the USB ports on Das keyboards, and if the costs were identical between two similar Filco and Das, would they still be roughly comparable ? Or does one of them have a slight edge over the other in this case ?


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
How I clean any keyboard:

1.) Disassemble it

2.) Run outer casing through dishwasher

3.) Soak keycaps in dilute isopropyl alcohol or soapy water (former for better cleaning, latter if it's pad printed)

4.) Clean any plates or PCBs with 70%+ isopropyl alcohol and Q-tips

5.) Do NOT disassemble any switches or major assemblies (ie the Model M's membranes, plates, and springs). Clean the exteriors of such gently with ispropyl alcohol

6.) Allow everything to dry, and reassemble

A thorough cleaning like that is usually only necessary if you spill something on it, or if you get it in very grimy condition... Shouldn't need to do it more than once every few years. In between times, just blow it out with compressed air every couple months or so.

This. I'd go with soapy water for the keys though. The first keyboard I took the time to wipe down each key with isopropyl alcohol. On the second one I just soaked the keys overnight in soapy water and almost all the dirt came off. I think I rinsed them off with alcohol just to be sure, but 95% of it came off in the water. They were filthy before.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mightydre* 
I was reading, I think on Amazon, that Das keyboards had usb issues--didn't work sometimes, or just didn't play nice with other usb devices. Is this still an issue or is it something that's been fixed ?

Also, is EliteKeyboards the only place to get Filco keyboards in the US ? Their prices could be better..

If one were to ignore the USB ports on Das keyboards, and if the costs were identical between two similar Filco and Das, would they still be roughly comparable ? Or does one of them have a slight edge over the other in this case ?

The Das on Amazon you speak of should be avoided. You want to buy the Das S Professional. It's the better of the two for a few reasons, and it usually costs about the same (better NKRO over PS/2, no key transposition issues, etc)

I hear those who own one or the other love them to pieces.

I believe they are both manufactured by the same company (Costar), and have similar build quality.

The advantage of the Das S is it can be had for ~$100 and has USB ports. The Glossy finish is a con for me. I already have to deal with a glossy laptop, so never again will I buy glossy components that I touch on a regular basis. The fingerprints drive me mad. I'm unsure if it would face the same key-cap problems as the Filco. I also don't know anything about a USB problem with the board, and it's possible that it was a bad shipment to amazon or something.

The Filco is just that, a Filco. No frills, no extra usb ports. Just a no-nonsense classy keyboard. Only issue I've heard is the key-caps leave something to be desired over time. They wear down and become glossy, and I believe it's possible to wear a letter off the key. Though it would be very rare.

I had to make this decision once, and I solved it by buying a Deck instead. I really like back-lighting on my keyboards. lol


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mightydre* 
I was reading, I think on Amazon, that Das keyboards had usb issues--didn't work sometimes, or just didn't play nice with other usb devices. Is this still an issue or is it something that's been fixed ?

Also, is EliteKeyboards the only place to get Filco keyboards in the US ? Their prices could be better..

If one were to ignore the USB ports on Das keyboards, and if the costs were identical between two similar Filco and Das, would they still be roughly comparable ? Or does one of them have a slight edge over the other in this case ?

I am not sure. though if this is a problem for you I suggest buying a USB Hub.

they are made by the same company.

the Das has thicker, laser etched keycaps. Das are cheaper and have a 30 day return policy no questions asked if you buy directly. 1 year warranty.

the Filco has thin, pad printed keycaps. the protective coating they spray the keycap to prevent the pad printing from fading wears and leaves a permanent shine. Filco are more expensive and have all transactions are final policy. 1 year warranty.


































the Das is a finger print magnet because it has a mirror finish, if you are OCD this may be a problem. on my Das the only finger prints are on the bottom of the face plate where my wrist rest against. the Das comes with a silk cloth to wipe it down. the Filco is not exactly infallible.


----------



## lmnop

Signature Plastics now sells Red, Double Shot Esc Keys for Cherry and Alps. see here.

White on Red (Cherry)









Black on Red (Cherry)









White on Red (Alps)









Black on Red (Alps)









Keys are $1.50 / each plus shipping and handling
Shipping and Handling for orders under 10 pcs:
$2.50 Flat USPS rate anywhere in the continental USA
$4.50 Flat USPS rate anywhere outside the USA
(Orders will be shipped via First Class Mail - tracking numbers are not available)

Order away kiddies! Thanks to ripster @ geekhack.


----------



## clownfart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Signature Plastics now sells Red, Double Shot Esc Keys for Cherry and Alps. see here.

White on Red (Cherry)









Black on Red (Cherry)









White on Red (Alps)









Black on Red (Alps)









Keys are $1.50 / each plus shipping and handling
Shipping and Handling for orders under 10 pcs:
$2.50 Flat USPS rate anywhere in the continental USA
$4.50 Flat USPS rate anywhere outside the USA
(Orders will be shipped via First Class Mail - tracking numbers are not available)

Order away kiddies! Thanks to ripster @ geekhack.


;D
http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...keys-alps.html


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clownfart*


;D
http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...keys-alps.html


22 hours ago? I never saw your thread. sorry. just when I thought the ABS M1 immigrants were gone


----------



## mightydre

Thank you for the replies W4LNUT5 and Christine.

I was looking at the Filco Otaku models to avoid the worn/shiny keycap problems. The only place I know of to get these is from EliteKeyboards and that'd end up around $140-$150 after shipping/tax for me. It looks like clownfart has the exact Filco I'm interested in.

SidewinderComputers appears to have the cheapest price for the standard Das in the US. I'm not sure about their return policies though--compared to buying direct--and they don't carry the Silent version with the cherry brown switches. The Ultimate Model S Silent direct from the Das store is $135 shipped.

I think you misunderstood me about the USB problems Christine. I'm not sure getting a USB hub would solve the problems I read about:

http://www.amazon.com/review/RYQHYP8...cm_cr_rdp_perm
http://www.amazon.com/review/R29QHFM...cm_cr_rdp_perm
http://www.amazon.com/review/R2XV0A7...cm_cr_rdp_perm

Perhaps these problems are specific to the Das model sold by Amazon. So no one with a Model S has any of these issues ?

Also, how many usb ports does the Das Model S *use* ? I've read some reviews that said 1 while others said 2 (one for the kb and one for the hub).


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mightydre*


Thank you for the replies W4LNUT5 and Christine.

I was looking at the Filco Otaku models to avoid the worn/shiny keycap problems. The only place I know of to get these is from EliteKeyboards and that'd end up around $140-$150 after shipping/tax for me. It looks like clownfart has the exact Filco I'm interested in.

SidewinderComputers appears to have the cheapest price for the standard Das in the US. I'm not sure about their return policies though--compared to buying direct--and they don't carry the Silent version with the cherry brown switches. The Ultimate Model S Silent direct from the Das store is $135 shipped.

I think you misunderstood me about the USB problems Christine. I'm not sure getting a USB hub would solve the problems I read about:

http://www.amazon.com/review/RYQHYP8...cm_cr_rdp_perm
http://www.amazon.com/review/R29QHFM...cm_cr_rdp_perm
http://www.amazon.com/review/R2XV0A7...cm_cr_rdp_perm

Perhaps these problems are specific to the Das model sold by Amazon. So no one with a Model S has any of these issues ?

Also, how many usb ports does the Das Model S *use* ? I've read some reviews that said 1 while others said 2 (one for the kb and one for the hub).


all those reviews are for the Das Professional not the Das Model S Professional.

regarding the Das Model S. 1 USB cable powers the keyboard, 1 USB cable powers the USB Hub. the USB Hub is *optional*.

they probably solved most USB issues the Das Professional had by powering the USB Hub on a separate USB cable.

SidewinderComputers has a 30 day return policy with a restocking fee.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mightydre*


Thank you for the replies W4LNUT5 and Christine.

I was looking at the Filco Otaku models to avoid the worn/shiny keycap problems. The only place I know of to get these is from EliteKeyboards and that'd end up around $140-$150 after shipping/tax for me. It looks like clownfart has the exact Filco I'm interested in.


I think that even the Otaku keys can get shiny because they look like they have the same coating. I mean, it's this sprayed-on coating that wears off.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mightydre*


SidewinderComputers appears to have the cheapest price for the standard Das in the US. I'm not sure about their return policies though--compared to buying direct--and they don't carry the Silent version with the cherry brown switches. The Ultimate Model S Silent direct from the Das store is $135 shipped.

I think you misunderstood me about the USB problems Christine. I'm not sure getting a USB hub would solve the problems I read about:

http://www.amazon.com/review/RYQHYP8...cm_cr_rdp_perm
http://www.amazon.com/review/R29QHFM...cm_cr_rdp_perm
http://www.amazon.com/review/R2XV0A7...cm_cr_rdp_perm

Perhaps these problems are specific to the Das model sold by Amazon. So no one with a Model S has any of these issues ?

Also, how many usb ports does the Das Model S *use* ? I've read some reviews that said 1 while others said 2 (one for the kb and one for the hub).


The Das can actually require absolutely zero USB ports since there is an included USB to PS/2 adapter to get full NKRO, and also since the USB hub doesn't need to be plugged in (it's optional, of course). But this keyboard requires a maximum of two USB ports: one for the keyboard and one for the USB hub. However, I recommend using the included USB to PS/2 adapter just so that there are absolutely no key rollover limitations.


----------



## clownfart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I think that even the Otaku keys can get shiny because they look like they have the same coating. I mean, it's this sprayed-on coating that wears off.


The blank keys aren't coated, and have a rougher texture.

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6511


----------



## Crazy9000

I love the texture of the blank keys personally.


----------



## W4LNUT5

When I pick up a small mech keyboard, I'll probably get it with blank caps.

I really want a small one like the HHKB, but I'm not up for spending that kinda dough until I get a job here (Graduating in like 2 weeks)


----------



## TwoCables

So then the blank Filco keys should look new longer?


----------



## clownfart

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
So then the blank Filco keys should look new longer?

They do for me.


----------



## soloz2

idk guys, my blank FILCO keys are pretty smooth...


----------



## Manyak

The blank keys that _come_ with Otaku boards do have the coating. The blank keys you buy as a replacement set don't.


----------



## mightydre

Thanks for all the feedback. I've decided to go with an 87 key Filco. Unfortunately, the Otaku version was out of stock, so I got the regular printed version. I can always replace the keycaps years later when the originals get worn.


----------



## lmnop

I contacted obook and they told me it will cost $202.59 (Paypal) to ship a Cherry G80-3494.

$136.10 for out of pocket expenses (keyboard)
$28.68 Freight Charge
$30.62 Commission
$7.19 Paypal charge.

No Insurance.

keep in mind this is a reliable export business and the commission is more of a "protection from being ripped off tax". the Guruboard doesn't look like it's going to be cheap and not everyone wants a Small Form Factor.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I contacted obook and they told me it will cost $202.59 (Paypal) to ship a Cherry G80-3494.

$136.10 for out of pocket expenses (keyboard)
$28.68 Freight Charge
$30.62 Commission 
$7.19 Paypal charge.

No Insurance.

keep in mind this is a reliable export business and the commission is more of a "protection from being ripped off tax". the Guruboard doesn't look like it's going to be cheap and not everyone wants a Small Form Factor.


Who's obook?

I'll pay $200 for one of those in a heartbeat. I REALLY want a cherry red board. Especially since I'm setting up two "stations" for my PC, one for work one for gaming.


----------



## lmnop

I read a tip from a Geekhack member who orders teabags regularly from them. Taobao is some kind of Chinese version of eBay and OBook exports from Taobao, Newegg China, Amazon China and a couple other sites.

e-mail [email protected] for price inquiry.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I read a tip from a Geekhack member who orders teabags regularly from them. Taobao is some kind of Chinese version of eBay and OBook exports from Taobao, Newegg China, Amazon China and a couple other sites.

e-mail [email protected] for price inquiry.


Awesome









Which is the exact model number with double shot molding and NKRO and everything? I can never keep track of cherry's number system.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Awesome









Which is the exact model number with double shot molding and NKRO and everything? I can never keep track of cherry's number system.




















G80-3494LYCUS-0 (White)
Polystyrol Casing
PBT (Polyester) Keycaps
Printing is Laser Etched
Backplate
Full Rollover
Cherry Logo Laser Etched
Blue LED
F, J, 5 Keys have Nubs.


















G80-3494LYCUS-2 (Black)
ABS Casing
POM (Delrin) Keycaps
Printing is Laser Etched
Backplate
Full Rollover
Cherry Logo Laser Etched
Blue LED
F, J Keys are Scooped. 5 Key has Nib.


----------



## clownfart

Black one looks awesome, I just don't think I'd like the scoops on the F and J keys. Also it has Delrin key caps? I have a few paintball parts made out of Delrin. Sounds pretty cool.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clownfart* 
Black one looks awesome, I just don't think I'd like the scoops on the F and J keys. Also it has Delrin key caps? I have a few paintball parts made out of Delrin. Sounds pretty cool.

it's one of the plastics they use to make water blocks out of too. I think it's stronger and lighter than ABS, it's also abrasion proof but the surface is slippery.

I wonder if Cherry applied some kind of finish to make them rougher.
































\\


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clownfart* 
Black one looks awesome, I just don't think I'd like the scoops on the F and J keys. Also it has Delrin key caps? I have a few paintball parts made out of Delrin. Sounds pretty cool.

Haha Delrin. I had a custom Delrin trigger on an old school Matrix of mine. Still have the thing. I think I have a delrin bolt in that thing too.


----------



## nijikon5

Let me know how the deal goes down Manyak. I'll be getting my Cherry 3494 in Black in about a month or so. My cousin placed an order through a BM store instead of on Taobao and plans to ship it over after.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


The blank keys that _come_ with Otaku boards do have the coating. The blank keys you buy as a replacement set don't.


That's good to know! Thank you!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mightydre*


Thanks for all the feedback. I've decided to go with an 87 key Filco. Unfortunately, the Otaku version was out of stock, so I got the regular printed version. I can always replace the keycaps years later when the originals get worn.


That's all good. According to Manyak, the blank keys that come with the Otaku boards have the sprayed-on coating that can wear off, but the ones that are purchased separately are not coated.


----------



## Tator Tot

I can vouch for the keycap thing too.

I've got an Otaku & a set of blanks, both have a different feel.

As a comparison, it's like different grits of sandpaper. They both have a slightly rough feel to them, but the set of blanks is rougher than the Otaku's.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I can vouch for the keycap thing too.

I've got an Otaku & a set of blanks, both have a different feel.

As a comparison, it's like different grits of sandpaper. They both have a slightly rough feel to them, but the set of blanks is rougher than the Otaku's.


Oooo... which keys do you like better?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Oooo... which keys do you like better?


Definitely the blank set. I replaced most of the board with them. I left ESC being Red, and the F1-12 actually have labeled key caps on them.

It's an 87key Otaku by the way.

Though I like the feel of the regular key caps, I don't like the way they look on an Otaku after lots of use.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Definitely the blank set. I replaced most of the board with them. I left ESC being Red, and the F1-12 actually have labeled key caps on them.

It's an 87key Otaku by the way.

Though I like the feel of the regular key caps, I don't like the way they look on an Otaku after lots of use.


So in regards to the way the keys feel, which ones do you prefer or like more?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


So in regards to the way the keys feel, which ones do you prefer or like more?


Well shape and whatnot is the same.

And the standard Otaku keys and Regular Filco keys feel the same. I like the actual texture on them. 
But like I said, on the Otaku versions, I do not like the shine that comes after awhile. But that's purely ascetic.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Well shape and whatnot is the same.

And the standard Otaku keys and Regular Filco keys feel the same. I like the actual texture on them. 
But like I said, on the Otaku versions, I do not like the shine that comes after awhile. But that's purely ascetic.


But what about the separate set of blanks that you purchased?

I mean, I already know that the keys that come with the keyboards all have the same shape, same feel and whatnot.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But what about the separate set of blanks that you purchased?

I mean, I already know that the keys that come with the keyboards all have the same shape, same feel and whatnot.

Oh, I prefer the less rough regular keycaps to the rougher blanks that I purchased separate.

But that's only because like I said, it's like having your fingers on a higher grit of sand paper. And I don't like that feel.


----------



## Crazy9000

Are the blanks actually to the point where they are gritty? I would describe the texture on the blank Das I have as "textured" but not gritty at all.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Are the blanks actually to the point where they are gritty? I would describe the texture on the blank Das I have as "textured" but not gritty at all.


It's hard to put it, it's sorta like dry wall.

it's got a textured, sorta fine grit feel to it. But I just really don't like the rough feel of things.

The feel is just a tad more rough than the stock paint-job on an Antec 300 as a better example.


----------



## TwoCables

Thank you, Tator Tot: I now have a little bit better understanding of the difference.

Are there any other comparisons that you can think of? Is it similar to the texture of the Filco's keyboard body?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Thank you, Tator Tot: I now have a little bit better understanding of the difference.

Are there any other comparisons that you can think of? Is it similar to the texture of the Filco's keyboard body?

Your CM-690's stock paint-job again has a similar feel as well.

Metalic paint is the best thing I can think of, as it does not feel like a plastic that much.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Your CM-690's stock paint-job again has a similar feel as well.

Metalic paint is the best thing I can think of, as it does not feel like a plastic that much.

Hmm... I have to admit now that it's a bit tempting to try these out!

Thank you for the explanations!


----------



## Tator Tot

No problem man.

It's really hard to explain to someone else the feel of something, but comparisons usually help.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
No problem man.

It's really hard to explain to someone else the feel of something, but comparisons usually help.

Y'know, it almost looks like it would feel like the texture of the body of the Filco, or perhaps the texture on the Microsoft Intellimouse Optical.


----------



## lmnop

come on guys how many pages are we going to talk about the damn texture of the keycap.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
come on guys how many pages are we going to talk about the damn texture of the keycap.

It's a completely valid subject.

I don't like to touch harsh surfaces.

Example: Chalk Boards

Just the thought of touching them makes my hands cry.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
come on guys how many pages are we going to talk about the damn texture of the keycap.

But this isn't your thread.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


It's a completely valid subject.

I don't like to touch harsh surfaces.

Example: Chalk Boards

Just the thought of touching them makes my hands cry.


agreed but we don't need 2 pages worth. wait until you have to scroll to look for something.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


agreed but we don't need 2 pages worth. wait until you have to scroll to look for something.


Again, this is not your thread.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


agreed but we don't need 2 pages worth. wait until you have to scroll to look for something.


The thread moves fast, and the info is relevant. If you can't keep up, increase your post per page, or read faster.

I can't really say more about it.

This isn't off-topic jibber jabber. It's a discussion relevant to the threads purpose.


----------



## Crazy9000

We also don't need two pages arguing about whether we need two pages on a subject







.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


The thread moves fast, and the info is relevant. If you can't keep up, increase your post per page, or read faster.

I can't really say more about it.

This isn't off-topic jibber jabber. It's a discussion relevant to the threads purpose.


Exactly. Christine, the only person who has any right to say what you're saying is Manyak (because this is his thread).

Anyway, I have my User CP options set to "Show 100 Posts Per Page". How can I stand it? Easily: I use a Firefox extension called "Back to Top", and I also use an extension called "Menu Editor" to edit Firefox's Context Menu so that I can right-click and press "B" for *Go to bottom*, and "T" for *Go to top* without any conflicts. Plus, I have "Accelerated Scrolling" enabled in my mouse control panel so that the scrolling speed increases as I scroll the wheel faster. I also have it adjusted to go really fast when I scroll faster so that it covers a ton of "screen distance".

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


We also don't need two pages arguing about whether we need two pages on a subject







.


Exactly. It is pointless.


----------



## clownfart

I use home and end keys. <- keyboard related


----------



## Crazy9000

You can scroll? Wow I thought you had to just buy a new computer screen every time I needed to reach the top of the page again. This computer thing suddenly got a lot cheaper!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clownfart*


I use home and end keys. <- keyboard related


I did at first back when I changed to "Show 100 Posts Per Page" (I was previously using 10 per page), but my strong desire to be able to somehow keep my left hand on Home Row and my right hand on the mouse while getting the same result as Home and End lead me to finding the Back to Top extension. But when I first tried to use it, I discovered that there were other items in the context menu that needed to be removed so that I could just right-click and press "T" or "B" and have the function happen immediately - just like pressing Home or End. So that's what lead me to Menu Editor.

But, back when I still had "Show 10 Posts Per Page" (or whatever the default is"), I never really gave it any thought at all. But now I use the "Go to bottom" (right-click, then press 'b') and "Go to top" (right-click, then press 't') every single time it's convenient. I even use it on relatively short pages, such as the User CP Options page (at least it's short in comparison to a page containing 100 posts).

So, I highly recommend both Back to Top and Menu Editor so that you too can enjoy just right-clicking and pressing 't' or 'b' to instantly go back and forth between the top and bottom without scrolling or pressing Home or End.


----------



## clownfart

Also instead of right clicking, you can press the menu key on your keyboard.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clownfart*


Also instead of right clicking, you can press the menu key on your keyboard.


But that means I have to let go of the mouse. But, if my right hand is over by the keyboard instead, then I will always just press Home or End (and this is something I forgot to mention).

My desire was to be able to get the same result of pressing Home and End without letting go of my mouse and also without moving my left hand away from the Home Row - and these 2 extensions gave that to me.


----------



## -=R00bin=-

It's been about a month since I received my first mechanical keyboard (Filco tactile clicky). I must say I've gotten a lot better at not bottoming out and it has become a lot easier to type on. At first I almost wanted to return the board because it was so stressful not to bottom out. Now I can't stop typing on it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *-=R00bin=-* 
It's been about a month since I received my first mechanical keyboard (Filco tactile clicky). I must say I've gotten a lot better at not bottoming out and it has become a lot easier to type on. At first I almost wanted to return the board because it was so stressful not to bottom out. Now I can't stop typing on it.

It's just like dabeshu from YouTube says in the description of his











:
_
"The sound is as crisp as a dry leaf in the desert, and the feeling, i would say, is up there in the God-Tier with kneading a natural, high-quality pair of a pregnant woman's breasts."_

Indeed!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


You can scroll? Wow I thought you had to just buy a new computer screen every time I needed to reach the top of the page again. This computer thing suddenly got a lot cheaper!


Why did the <moron> put two TVs on top of each other?

So he could see under the skirt of the anchorwoman.


----------



## clownfart

No use in keeping this a secret anymore. Clickclacks custom keycaps(more pics and FAQ in this link):


----------



## yann3804

Where am I supposed to find Double Shot keycaps replacement for my Pad printing Filco Cherry MX?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yann3804*


Where am I supposed to find Double Shot keycaps replacement for my Pad printing Filco Cherry MX?


Find a Cherry MX keyboard with an "H" in the model #.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yann3804*


Where am I supposed to find Double Shot keycaps replacement for my Pad printing Filco Cherry MX?


eBay. you need at least 2 keyboards because some keys are incompatible with the Filco. you need to look for a G81-7000 and G80-8200 or G80-8100.


----------



## yann3804

Those models are in white. Aren't there any black double shot keycaps? Like those already on the filco?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yann3804*


Those models are in white. Aren't there any black double shot keycaps? Like those already on the filco?


they are in black too.

there is probably other compatible Cherry keyboards. you want to look for "H" and "-2" or "-02" in the model number.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
The blank keys that _come_ with Otaku boards do have the coating. The blank keys you buy as a replacement set don't.

that would explain a lot.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clownfart* 
No use in keeping this a secret anymore.










I want some of those splat ones! I already posted in the thread


----------



## TwoCables

Maytan said that if somebody can recommend him a good, brand new keyboard (that isn't loud) for less than $100 shipped, then he'd buy it. Help?

http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ml#post9250438


----------



## Phaedrus2129

i-Rocks KR-6230 with Cherry MX Brown switches.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...s%20mechanical
$90+$8 S&H


----------



## Cassull

Hi, I'm fairly new to mechanical keyboards and recently bought a Filco Majestouch Cherry blue switches. While I love the keyboard, I am definitely noticing that some of the more used keys are getting a bit shiny and worn down. Has anyone come up with a suitable solution to preventing that? I know isopropyl alcohol and some qtips would clean up residual grease/oil that's accumulated, but I don't know if I want to keep doing that every few days.

I used to have an Saitek Eclipse II where the keys were actually white and painted over, leaving the actual letter unpaint so the letter would be visible with the back light. The thing with the Saitek, however, was that the dark paint would wear off and the letter would soon disappear. Someone recommended painting nail polish over the keys to prevent that. I don't want to do that to my Filco; I like the texture and feel of the keys and I'd prefer not painting it with nail polish since it does have a rather odd feel to them...

Any suggestions/comments?


----------



## yann3804

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cassull* 
Hi, I'm fairly new to mechanical keyboards and recently bought a Filco Majestouch Cherry blue switches. While I love the keyboard, I am definitely noticing that some of the more used keys are getting a bit shiny and worn down. Has anyone come up with a suitable solution to preventing that? I know isopropyl alcohol and some qtips would clean up residual grease/oil that's accumulated, but I don't know if I want to keep doing that every few days.

I used to have an Saitek Eclipse II where the keys were actually white and painted over, leaving the actual letter unpaint so the letter would be visible with the back light. The thing with the Saitek, however, was that the dark paint would wear off and the letter would soon disappear. Someone recommended painting nail polish over the keys to prevent that. I don't want to do that to my Filco; I like the texture and feel of the keys and I'd prefer not painting it with nail polish since it does have a rather odd feel to them...

Any suggestions/comments?

I believe the only solution would be to replace the keycaps, I do own a Filco too and am afraid of that problem. I've been told to replace the keycaps with double shot ones....

Or you could live with it.


----------



## clownfart

Some people on Geekhack are talking about ordering full sets of double shots for Filcos.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=9777


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cassull* 
Hi, I'm fairly new to mechanical keyboards and recently bought a Filco Majestouch Cherry blue switches. While I love the keyboard, I am definitely noticing that some of the more used keys are getting a bit shiny and worn down. Has anyone come up with a suitable solution to preventing that? I know isopropyl alcohol and some qtips would clean up residual grease/oil that's accumulated, but I don't know if I want to keep doing that every few days.

I used to have an Saitek Eclipse II where the keys were actually white and painted over, leaving the actual letter unpaint so the letter would be visible with the back light. The thing with the Saitek, however, was that the dark paint would wear off and the letter would soon disappear. Someone recommended painting nail polish over the keys to prevent that. I don't want to do that to my Filco; I like the texture and feel of the keys and I'd prefer not painting it with nail polish since it does have a rather odd feel to them...

Any suggestions/comments?

The only way to do it would be to replace the keycaps. You can get replacement caps from a Cherry board (see here), or you can order them custom - sculpted and all - from signature plastics or fentek or whoever.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cassull* 
Hi, I'm fairly new to mechanical keyboards and recently bought a Filco Majestouch Cherry blue switches. While I love the keyboard, I am definitely noticing that some of the more used keys are getting a bit shiny and worn down. Has anyone come up with a suitable solution to preventing that? I know isopropyl alcohol and some qtips would clean up residual grease/oil that's accumulated, but I don't know if I want to keep doing that every few days.

I used to have an Saitek Eclipse II where the keys were actually white and painted over, leaving the actual letter unpaint so the letter would be visible with the back light. The thing with the Saitek, however, was that the dark paint would wear off and the letter would soon disappear. Someone recommended painting nail polish over the keys to prevent that. I don't want to do that to my Filco; I like the texture and feel of the keys and I'd prefer not painting it with nail polish since it does have a rather odd feel to them...

Any suggestions/comments?

What's happening here is the sprayed-on coating is wearing off. Fortunately though, you can replace the keycaps with either the ones on EliteKeyboards.com, or use the information in the thread that Manyak posted. I mean, you could go with ordering double-shot keys, but it looks like it would be very expensive (one guy was quoted $175 from Signature Plastics).

If you decide to replace them with the ones on EliteKeyboards.com, then I think that the blank keycaps should be ordered because based on what I've seen in this thread, it looks like they won't get shiny nearly as quickly (if at all) because they do not have a sprayed-on coating.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yann3804* 
I believe the only solution would be to replace the keycaps, I do own a Filco too and am afraid of that problem. I've been told to replace the keycaps with double shot ones....

Or you could live with it.

It really is nothing to worry about. Seriously: it's not like it becomes all _that_ ugly or like the feel is completely trashed or like the function is changed.

I like everything to look nice too, but form always follows function. That means that function is always the #1 priority.

Don't worry about things so much. Don't worry about the bridge until it's time to cross it, y'know?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clownfart* 
Some people on Geekhack are talking about ordering full sets of double shots for Filcos.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=9777

But one guy was quoted $175 from Signature Plastics!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But one guy was quoted $175 from Signature Plastics!









Sounds like that was a quote for a single set, a group buy should get significantly cheaper.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Sounds like that was a quote for a single set, a group buy should get significantly cheaper.

Yep, I saw that.


----------



## Hawk777th

Looking at daskeyboard and wonder if the cherry blues work ok for gaming?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hawk777th* 
Looking at daskeyboard and wonder if the cherry blues work ok for gaming?

It depends on you, but technically speaking, they are not suited for gaming at all. But again, it depends on you.

But technically speaking again, the Cherry MX Browns are a better choice than the Blues for gaming, so I recommend going with the Model S Professional Silent.


----------



## fssbzz

hi guys.
is this a good mechanical Keyboard for gaming and typing?

*Ione Scorpius M10*


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
hi guys.
is this a good mechanical Keyboard for gaming and typing?

*Ione Scorpius M10*

rollover isn't very good.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
rollover isn't very good.

what is rollover?









wait edit:
i got it. thanks


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
what is rollover?









it has a standard matrix you can only press 2 or 3 keys at a time. the iOne Scorpius M10 is a good typing keyboard.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
it has a standard matrix you can only press 2 or 3 keys at a time. the iOne Scorpius M10 is a good typing keyboard.

thanks







damm it. looks like i will still wait for ABS M1 for the $$


----------



## fssbzz

what about this *Solidtek KB-6600ABU Keyboard*
isit a good one for gaming?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I don't know if that's mechanical.

Consider the Adesso MKB-135B. Basically an iOne M10, but with NKRO.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
thanks







damm it. looks like i will still wait for ABS M1 for the $$









I would probably go with the Adesso MKB-135B it's made by the same OEM as the iOne Scorpius M10, claims to have full n-key rollover and uses Cherry MX Blue switches it also doesn't break the bank at $70.74 there is also the compact version Adesso MKB-125B for $57.27.

problem is no one has bought one to test them! though you could be the first









Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
what about this *Solidtek KB-6600ABU Keyboard*
isit a good one for gaming?

nope.


----------



## fssbzz

imma try not to spend more then $60. or might just wait for ABS M1 in stock and get it?
or probably save money but have to take sometimes

what about *Alps Mechanical Switch Keyboard ASK-6600*


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
imma try not to spend more then $60. or might just wait for ABS M1 in stock and get it?
or probably save money but have to take sometimes

what about *Alps Mechanical Switch Keyboard ASK-6600*

also not good. it's a rebranded Solidtek 6600.


----------



## fssbzz

man i wish i could know/found all this keyboard earlier.
so i can feel better when i doing all my projects and homework..which require alot of typing and alot of key from keyboard. sigh.
this is a really nice thread.i love it. alot


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
man i wish i could know/found all this keyboard earlier.
so i can feel better when i doing all my projects and homework..which require alot of typing and alot of key from keyboard. sigh.
this is a really nice thread.i love it. alot

you won't find any new mechanical keyboards on the market with full n-key rollover under $100 the Adesso is your only hope!


----------



## fssbzz

ok. some question. *Gigabyte GK-K8000*
good mechanical gaming keyboard?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The i-Rocks KR-6230 has NKRO and MX Brown switches, but it's $90.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


It depends on you, but technically speaking, they are not suited for gaming at all. But again, it depends on you.

But technically speaking again, the Cherry MX Browns are a better choice than the Blues for gaming, so I recommend going with the Model S Professional Silent.


It all depends on you, but technically speaking, your nose is not suited for gaming with. Technically speaking, your hands are a better choice. But some people might prefer the nose so I thought I'd make that clear.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


ok. some question.* Gigabyte GK-K8000*
good mechanical gaming keyboard?


the Gigabyte GK-K8000 was only on the market for a short time before being discontinued a couple years ago.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the Gigabyte GK-K8000 was only on the market for a short time before being discontinued a couple years ago.


do you know how much when it is on the market? thanks


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


do you know how much when it is on the market? thanks










yes it was $129-139 it was only a little cheaper than the steelseries 7g $149


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


The i-Rocks KR-6230 has NKRO and MX Brown switches, but it's $90.


I don't think the i-Rocks KR-6230 supports PS/2. the USB uses a Cherry memory system like the steelseries 6g the product sheet says it can support up to 16 key presses over USB but I think there is a delay.


----------



## fssbzz

7g vs k8000 
7g is not a mechanical keyboard right?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


7g vs k8000 
7g is not a mechanical keyboard right?


the Gigabyte GK-K8000 was interesting because Gigabyte is no small company. some features it had.

macro key
profile key
media key
windows key lock
extra keycaps
keycap changer
attachable wrist rest
carrying case
usb hub
attachable usb cable
integrated c-media 6300 audiochip
cherry mx black linear switches
laser etched keycaps
4mb on-board memory
rollover is 6+4 USB
steelseries 7g is mechanical there is also the steelseries 6gv2 coming out it's basically the steelseries 7g without the multimedia ports and a larger backspace key it will retail for $99.


----------



## RayvinAzn

I actually really loved the look of the GK-K8000 - I'm a sucker for orange/yellow on black. The features list was very impressive too. Pity they never made it over here, I almost certainly would have bought one. I heard some rumblings about them making a new version, not sure when that might see the light of day however.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the Gigabyte GK-K8000 was interesting because Gigabyte is no small company. some features it had.

macro key
profile key
media key
windows key lock
extra keycaps
keycap changer
attachable wrist rest
carrying case
usb hub
attachable usb cable
integrated c-media 6300 audiochip
cherry mx black linear switches
laser etched keycaps
4mb on-board memory
rollover is 6+4 USB
steelseries 7g is mechanical there is also the steelseries 6gv2 coming out it's basically the steelseries 7g without the multimedia ports and a larger backspace key it will retail for $99.


thanks for the awesome information.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
It all depends on you, but technically speaking, your nose is not suited for gaming with. Technically speaking, your hands are a better choice. But some people might prefer the nose so I thought I'd make that clear.










Technically speaking, you're technically a little bit weird for getting so technical on me. I mean, I'm just speaking technically here.

But, if you wanna get technical, I think you're right.

I can't stop laughing.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I don't know if that's mechanical.

Consider the Adesso MKB-135B. Basically an iOne M10, but with NKRO.


It is.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I don't think the i-Rocks KR-6230 supports PS/2. the USB uses a Cherry memory system like the steelseries 6g the product sheet says it can support up to 16 key presses over USB but I think there is a delay.


It does 6 keys like normal, and then when you press the 7th key it disables the oldest keypress. And if you just press a ton of keys at once, it sequences through them.

I uploaded this a while ago, when I wrote a review for them:


----------



## lmnop

Thanks Manyak.

TG3 82 with track pad on eBay for $70.00 2 available. this is pretty much a Deck 82 Fire with some minor differences.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
the Gigabyte GK-K8000 was interesting because Gigabyte is no small company. some features it had.

macro key
profile key
media key
windows key lock
extra keycaps
keycap changer
attachable wrist rest
carrying case
usb hub
attachable usb cable
integrated c-media 6300 audiochip
cherry mx black linear switches
laser etched keycaps
4mb on-board memory
rollover is 6+4 USB
steelseries 7g is mechanical there is also the steelseries 6gv2 coming out it's basically the steelseries 7g without the multimedia ports and a larger backspace key it will retail for $99.

I wrote a nice reply to this, but the intertubes seem to have eat it.

I talked to Gigabyte at computex a few years ago. They had one, but would not sell or give it to me no matter how much I begged. Gave me a nice hat though. It looked like a nice board and if you can find one I would pick it up. Its big! I think it cost too much for them to make is why they stopped. The v2 was going to be a typical crappy "gamer" board with rubber dome and only wasd mechanical keys. Bleh, do not want.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
I wrote a nice reply to this, but the intertubes seem to have eat it.

I talked to Gigabyte at computex a few years ago. They had one, but would not sell or give it to me no matter how much I begged. Gave me a nice hat though. It looked like a nice board and if you can find one I would pick it up. Its big! I think it cost too much for them to make is why they stopped. The v2 was going to be a typical crappy "gamer" board with rubber dome and only wasd mechanical keys. Bleh, do not want.

yeah it was a nice keyboard, I would of chosen it over the steelseries 7g.

last year I was tossing and turning why they discontinued it and came across a Yahoo Answers post that said Gigabyte wasn't happy with the OEM and here is why.

Quote:

1. Not well manufactured, especially the laser inscriptions on the keys don't aligned well.
2. Not use faked switches to balance larger keys. (space, shift, enter, etc) The reviewer's space key get jammed sometimes.
3. Don't support 64 bit OS. (Vista or XP64)


----------



## fssbzz

they did carry the GK8000 from where i from.
my friend planning to get it and ship it for me.


----------



## Maytan

Well, I ran into some extra cash this morning. (hard work pays off!) It's not much, but I was thinking about what to do with it. I figure I might as well get myself a mech keyboard and see why TwoCables loves 'em so much. I'm guessing a Filco would be the best place to start?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
yeah it was a nice keyboard, I would of chosen it over the steelseries 7g.

last year I was tossing and turning why they discontinued it and came across a Yahoo Answers post that said Gigabyte wasn't happy with the OEM and here is why.

Don't support 64 bit OS? Never seen a keyboard that didn't before.


----------



## Diogones

Greetings Overlock.net forum! I am a new user here, and as this is my first post, I'll get to the point. I stumbled upon this thread while researching a keyboard to purchase. I am in the market for one, but I am unsure which I should get. I was hoping those more technically knowledgeable than myself might be able to help me purchase one. My parameters for buying a keyboard are as follows: 
1.) I don't want to spend more than fifty or sixty dollars on one (I know that excludes most mechanical keyboards).
2.) Of course I would prefer a mechanical keyboard, but if there isn't one within my budget, then I suppose I wouldn't mind a rubber dome keyboard, as long as it is higher quality.
3.) I will use my keyboard for a combination of purposes: I perform secretarial work, so typing is of course quite important; but I would consider myself a gaming enthusiast as well, with an emphasis on RTS and strategy-based games. 
4.) I don't need anything beyond the traditional qwerty layout, as I know that the bells and whistles (such as connectivity options, extra keys, etc.) will raise the price substantially. However, if I could get a keyboard with back-lighting, it would be ideal. As an example: http://www.amazon.com/Saitek-Eclipse...3083845&sr=8-1 (Although I don't believe that is a mechanical keyboard).

5.) My computer does have a PS/2 port (which computer doesn't?) so I would be able to harness the full capabilities of that connection over a USB port. One question I do have though is, what difference does a USB to PS/2 adapter or vice versa have on the keyboard's performance, responsiveness, etc?

I salute Manyak for a well-written, thorough, articulate, and extremely helpful mechanical keyboard guide! :] I was hoping to PM Manyak for advice, but I realized that as a new user, I do not have that privilege yet. Thank you for taking the time to read my post, and I welcome all helpful replies!


----------



## Phaedrus2129

If you can bump your budget up to $70, a Unicomp Space Saver would be ideal for you, I think.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Well, I ran into some extra cash this morning. (hard work pays off!) It's not much, but I was thinking about what to do with it. I figure I might as well get myself a mech keyboard and see why TwoCables loves 'em so much. I'm guessing a Filco would be the best place to start?


hehe I do love my keyboard to pieces!







But I've been using rubber dome boards since at least 1995 or so.

I think that the best place to start is to find out which switch type you think that you will like the most. One way to do this is to use YouTube; search for things like "mechanical keyboard", "cherry mx blue", "cherry mx brown", "cherry mx black", "buckling spring", and also search for specific keyboards. I found that this alone was a huge help in deciding on a switch type because I got a fairly good idea of what each switch type felt like just by watching all of those videos (a few of them do an exceptionally good job at showing how the switches feel).

But of course, also use the OP of this thread since there's a great deal of information and details about the most popular switch types.

I think that once you've decided on a switch type, then it becomes time to choose a keyboard that has those switch types. You see, knowing which switch you want makes the selection is less overwhelming.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Diogones*


Greetings Overlock.net forum! I am a new user here, and as this is my first post, I'll get to the point. I stumbled upon this thread while researching a keyboard to purchase. I am in the market for one, but I am unsure which I should get. I was hoping those more technically knowledgeable than myself might be able to help me purchase one. My parameters for buying a keyboard are as follows: 
1.) I don't want to spend more than fifty or sixty dollars on one (I know that excludes most mechanical keyboards).
2.) Of course I would prefer a mechanical keyboard, but if there isn't one within my budget, then I suppose I wouldn't mind a rubber dome keyboard, as long as it is higher quality.


Fortunately, there are some rubber dome keyboards that are both affordable and recommended by some of our mechanical keyboard enthusiasts when a person cannot get a mechanical board (and also when somebody knows they don't _want_ one).

So, I am isolating this point here because it is worth highlighting because I think you could spend no more than $50 and end up with a decent board, even though it probably won't be a mechanical.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Diogones*


3.) I will use my keyboard for a combination of purposes: I perform secretarial work, so typing is of course quite important; but I would consider myself a gaming enthusiast as well, with an emphasis on RTS and strategy-based games.


 If you _were_ to get a mechanical keyboard, then I recommend a board with either the Cherry MX Blue switches or the Cherry MX Browns. This is because of the secretarial work. But the Buckling Spring switch type can be good too, however it is a louder switch type. But since I mentioned the Buckling Spring switch type, I'd like to mention the Unicomp Customizer 104 and the Unicomp SpaceSaver 104 keyboards that Phaedrus2129 mentioned. These are pretty much the best remakes of the IBM Model M.

So as you might be guessing here, I think the first thing to do is figure out which switch type you think that you will like the most, and then find a keyboard that has those switches. And another good resource in addition to this guide/thread is YouTube. Not only do you get to see keyboards in action, but you get to hear them as well. Plus, just seeing several different people typing on all kinds of mechanical keyboards is really helpful in determining how each switch might feel to you (and a few videos actually go the extra mile to make it even easier to tell).

But if you find that the "right" keyboard for you is just too far out of the budget, then I know that there are people who frequent this thread who might be able to recommend a good rubber dome keyboard that's within the budget (including Manyak). However, we may also be able to find a good mechanical keyboard on eBay. But what I'm saying here is that if a mechanical keyboard enthusiast recommends certain rubber dome keyboards, then you _know_ they're good!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Diogones*


4.) I don't need anything beyond the traditional qwerty layout, as I know that the bells and whistles (such as connectivity options, extra keys, etc.) will raise the price substantially. However, if I could get a keyboard with back-lighting, it would be ideal. As an example: http://www.amazon.com/Saitek-Eclipse...3083845&sr=8-1 (Although I don't believe that is a mechanical keyboard).


You're right. Plus, as I have discovered, simplicity is king.

You're also right that the Saitek boards aren't mechanical. Almost every keyboard that is really easy to find like this one is not mechanical.







But I want to stress here that I'm saying _"almost"_ every easy-to-find keyboard.









But unfortunately, every backlit mechanical keyboard that I have ever seen are all easily over $100. There are even some that easily exceed $150, which are made by Deck.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Diogones*


5.) My computer does have a PS/2 port (which computer doesn't?) so I would be able to harness the full capabilities of that connection over a USB port. One question I do have though is, what difference does a USB to PS/2 adapter or vice versa have on the keyboard's performance, responsiveness, etc?


If the keyboard is said to have full NKRO (or, full N-Key Rollover), then the only way to have the full NKRO is to use the included USB to PS/2 adapter. Unfortunately, this doesn't mean that every mechanical keyboard that comes with a USB to PS/2 adapter will have full NKRO when using that adapter. So this is why I am saying that full NKRO (or perhaps just plain "NKRO" without the word _"full"_ in front) must be mentioned in the list of the board's features.

For keyboards that don't have full NKRO but still come with a USB to PS/2 adapter, I don't know of any benefits other than simply not taking up a USB port.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Diogones*


I salute Manyak for a well-written, thorough, articulate, and extremely helpful mechanical keyboard guide! :] I was hoping to PM Manyak for advice, but I realized that as a new user, I do not have that privilege yet. Thank you for taking the time to read my post, and I welcome all helpful replies!


You're quite welcome, Diogones! And welcome to Overclock.net!

And yeah, this post is long, but typing on this keyboard is really fun!


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


hehe I do love my keyboard to pieces!







But I've been using rubber dome boards since at least 1995 or so.

I think that the best place to start is to find out which switch type you think that you will like the most. One way to do this is to use YouTube; search for things like "mechanical keyboard", "cherry mx blue", "cherry mx brown", "cherry mx black", "buckling spring", and also search for specific keyboards. I found that this alone was a huge help in deciding on a switch type because I got a fairly good idea of what each switch type felt like just by watching all of those videos (a few of them do an exceptionally good job at showing how the switches feel).

But of course, also use the OP of this thread since there's a great deal of information and details about the most popular switch types.

I think that once you've decided on a switch type, then it becomes time to choose a keyboard that has those switch types. You see, knowing which switch you want makes the selection is less overwhelming.


Yeah, I've decided on Browns. I think I'm going to order the Filco, but I'll have to throw in a few extra dollars to afford it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Yeah, I've decided on Browns. I think I'm going to order the Filco, but I'll have to throw in a few extra dollars to afford it.

Another keyboard to consider that has the Cherry MX Browns is the Das Model S Professional Silent. Unfortunately, Das is not good at updating their website, so I need to say a few things:

The model that is on that product page is discontinued. In fact, all of them have been discontinued and replaced with models that do not have media keys. Now they call them "Model S with 2 Windows keys".







So, here's what we can use for now:

http://store.daskeyboard.net/keyboards.html (this is the page that the "Buy Now" link on the main page points to)

Here is the Professional Model S Silent with 2 Windows keys

Unfortunately, this page says that there's a "new delivery date" which is estimated to be within the next 2 weeks.

So, here's the same one, but with blank keys that is actually in stock: http://store.daskeyboard.net/ulmossiwi2wi.html

But of course, the Filco and Das boards aren't the only ones to consider. Unfortunately, I can't remember which other keyboards have the Cherry MX Browns. But you'll be 100% happy either way, however I am just the kind of person who likes to make absolutely sure that I'm getting that "perfect fit".

I give all credit to lmnop (we also know her by _Christine_) for the knowledge I gained about the newer Das Model S boards with 2 Windows keys.

*Edit:* I forgot about something: please review this thread regarding the Das keyboard company:

http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ed-my-das.html

I now rescind back my recommendation above. I'm sorry for forgetting about this.


----------



## Maytan

Those are nice, but are even more expensive than the Filco is. (even before shipping) I'd like if there was a brown with media controls, but I'll make do even without.

EDIT: Gotchya', I guess I'll stick with Filco.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Those are nice, but are even more expensive than the Filco is. (even before shipping) It'd be nice if there was a brown with media controls, but I'll make do even without.

But the Das boards have free shipping. I was charged $11 in shipping by EliteKeyboards.com which made my 104-key Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO cost $145 shipped.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
EDIT: Gotchya', I guess I'll stick with Filco.

But I do want to contradict myself here by saying that even though I think that they dropped the ball with that guy, I bet the chances of something like that happening to you or anyone else are pretty rare. But still, it kinda pisses me off because they claim that their keyboards are "The best keyboard on the planet. Period." But perhaps all they care about are the quality of their products and not the quality of their Customer Service.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But the Das boards have free shipping. I was charged $11 in shipping by EliteKeyboards.com which made my 104-key Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO cost $145 shipped.

But I do want to contradict myself here by saying that even though I think that they dropped the ball with that guy, I bet the chances of something like that happening to you or anyone else are pretty rare. But still, it kinda pisses me off because they claim that their keyboards are "The best keyboard on the planet. Period." But perhaps all they care about are the quality of their products and not the quality of their Customer Service.




Hmm, then it might be something to consider. However, since this is my first time tredding on mech keyboards, I think I'll stick with Filco. (just to make sure I don't end up with the same experience as that guy.)

Either way, the Majestouch Tactile Touch comes to $121 after shipping for me. I have about $80, so I'll have to put some money into it. (unless there's another suggestion)


----------



## Phaedrus2129

You could consider getting a Ducky board, like I am. They're only available in China. However, over at GeekHack.org there are some Chinese members who might be willing to ship one over. They got $93, +trans-Pacific shipping, so ~$140-$160. Imagine an NKRO Filco with thicker, nicer keycaps and a shmexier logo and finish.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


You could consider getting a Ducky board, like I am. They're only available in China. However, over at GeekHack.org there are some Chinese members who might be willing to ship one over. They got $93, +trans-Pacific shipping, so ~$140-$160. Imagine an NKRO Filco with thicker, nicer keycaps and a shmexier logo and finish.


Hmm, I'll consider it. Not sure I want to go through all that trouble for a keyboard, though. (international shipping worries me for some reason...)


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Hmm, I'll consider it. Not sure I want to go through all that trouble for a keyboard, though. (international shipping worries me for some reason...)


I wouldn't be.

I do it all the time. The time it takes to show up can be a pain though. Sometimes it's a whole month if it gets locked up in customs for awhile.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I wouldn't be.

I do it all the time. The time it takes to show up can be a pain though. Sometimes it's a whole month if it gets locked up in customs for awhile.


I can't really wait a month, my current keyboard is broken so.... <_<


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I can't really wait a month, my current keyboard is broken so.... <_<


Ah, that can be a problem.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I can't really wait a month, my current keyboard is broken so.... <_<


Oh, I didn't know it was broken (or perhaps I forgot). Now I know why you're considering a mechanical keyboard!


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Oh, I didn't know it was broken (or perhaps I forgot). Now I know why you're considering a mechanical keyboard!


Yeah. I was going to go and buy another rubber-dome, but since I ended up with this extra money I figured I'd try going mech.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Yeah. I was going to go and buy another rubber-dome, but since I ended up with this extra money I figured I'd try going mech.


Oh, it must be fate!


----------



## Diogones

Thank you for that lengthy reply Two Cables, it was very informative! But I do have one question: So what you're saying is that, unless the keyboard supports the n key rollover, PS/2 isn't different from USB? I thought that the original guide mentioned other advantages PS/2 had over USB.

All right, so if I wanted to go back lit, then mech is out. Those links you shared are pretty cool, and the IBM replica doesn't look bad at all. However, while the louder sound of the spring keys doesn't bother me, is that the same as a mech key with switches? Or is it more or less durable? I think I might go with a brown switch as, according to Maytan, it is the right balance between gaming and typing. Question is, does anyone know a good brown switch keyboard that fits my requirements? If not, I suppose I could go with the keyboard you linked.

For those of you who are experts with rubber dome boards, what are some good models that won't break my budget? Thanks again for your help.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Diogones*


Thank you for that lengthy reply Two Cables, it was very informative! But I do have one question: So what you're saying is that, unless the keyboard supports the n key rollover, PS/2 isn't different from USB? I thought that the original guide mentioned other advantages PS/2 had over USB.


PS/2 is technically better still since it sends the key signal right when you press it, as opposed to when it gets polled like USB. However, USB is polled so fast I don't think it's humanly possible to notice any sort of input lag, otherwise people wouldn't use USB.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Diogones*


Thank you for that lengthy reply Two Cables, it was very informative! But I do have one question: So what you're saying is that, unless the keyboard supports the n key rollover, PS/2 isn't different from USB? I thought that the original guide mentioned other advantages PS/2 had over USB.

All right, so if I wanted to go back lit, then mech is out. Those links you shared are pretty cool, and the IBM replica doesn't look bad at all. However, while the louder sound of the spring keys doesn't bother me, is that the same as a mech key with switches? Or is it more or less durable? I think I might go with a brown switch as, according to Maytan, it is the right balance between gaming and typing. Question is, does anyone know a good brown switch keyboard that fits my requirements? If not, I suppose I could go with the keyboard you linked.

For those of you who are experts with rubber dome boards, what are some good models that won't break my budget? Thanks again for your help.










You can get backlit mechanical boards, but you'll just spend a pretty penny.


----------



## Maytan

Alright, ordering my keyboard later. Any last suggestions?


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Alright, ordering my keyboard later. Any last suggestions?

which one u order?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
which one u order?

Filco Majestouch.


----------



## yann3804

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Filco Majestouch.

I was pretty skeptical at first because there was also the DAS as another choice. (Das model S)

TwoCables introduced me to the Filco Majestouch when I first posted in this section, but later on Imnop suggested the Das.

I would have gotten the Das for the price, but for the build and layout, (there's no media/glossy frame), my $210 CAD filco is satisfactory. It was shipped over USPS international mail here in Canada, and I got it under three weeks of wait, which is pretty aw'some.

Would I buy it again? Maybe. But it really depends on what layout you desire. They have both pros and cons and are manufactured by Costar.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yann3804*


I was pretty skeptical at first because there was also the DAS as another choice. (Das model S)

TwoCables introduced me to the Filco Majestouch when I first posted in this section, but later on Imnop suggested the Das.

I would have gotten the Das for the price, but for the build and layout, (there's no media/glossy frame), my $210 CAD filco is satisfactory. It was shipped over USPS international mail here in Canada, and I got it under three weeks of wait, which is pretty aw'some.

Would I buy it again? Maybe. But it really depends on what layout you desire. They have both pros and cons and are manufactured by Costar.


From what it appears, there were Das models that had media keys. (I'm new to this, throw me a bone here) Apparently, they're discontinued (according to TwoCables' link) and now just have a standard layout. If there was a Das with media keys I could get my hands on, I'd love it to death. But since they both have the same/nearly the same layout now, I'll stick the cheaper alternative.









EDIT: Alright, I ordered it. Wish me luck! If I like it, I'll thank you guys. (if I don't, I'll just have to cry for a few days that I spent $120 on a keyboard.)


----------



## fssbzz

this will be nice for my girlfriend who type alot of essay for her homework


----------



## clownfart

Elitekeyboards had the US version of those for a short while. I'm guessing they're sold out. I don't think there will be more.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Diogones*


Thank you for that lengthy reply Two Cables, it was very informative! But I do have one question: So what you're saying is that, unless the keyboard supports the n key rollover, PS/2 isn't different from USB? I thought that the original guide mentioned other advantages PS/2 had over USB.


You're welcome!

You're right! I totally forgot about that, but Crazy9000's reply summed it up very well.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Diogones*


All right, so if I wanted to go back lit, then mech is out.


Unfortunately. But, it would probably be worth it if you can spend some time saving up enough money to buy one. But I am not one to talk because I don't have that kind of patience.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Diogones*


Those links you shared are pretty cool, and the IBM replica doesn't look bad at all. However, while the louder sound of the spring keys doesn't bother me, is that the same as a mech key with switches?


Well, I'd say that the click sound of the Buckling Spring switch type is noticeably louder than the click sound of let's say the Cherry MX Blue switch type, but I don't think that I'd call it _significantly _louder or anything like that. However, everyone's opinion regarding how much louder the Buckling Spring switches are is different, so I recommend using YouTube.









If you need search ideas, then just search for things like "IBM Model M", "unicomp customizer", "unicomp spacesaver", buckling spring", etc. And then search for things like "cherry mx blue" (actually, I think just searching for "cherry mx blue" will inspire other search criteria).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Diogones*


Or is it more or less durable?


I don't know yet, so I would like to know too! So to anyone who knows: do we know yet whether or not the Buckling Spring switches last longer than Cherry MX switches? It's my guess that they do, but I want to be sure.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Diogones*


I think I might go with a brown switch as, according to Maytan, it is the right balance between gaming and typing. Question is, does anyone know a good brown switch keyboard that fits my requirements? If not, I suppose I could go with the keyboard you linked.


This is a good question, and it's usually one I have a tough time answering.







So, I'll leave it up to those who know.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


From what it appears, there were Das models that had media keys. (I'm new to this, throw me a bone here) Apparently, they're discontinued (according to TwoCables' link) and now just have a standard layout. If there was a Das with media keys I could get my hands on, I'd love it to death. But since they both have the same/nearly the same layout now, I'll stick the cheaper alternative.









EDIT: Alright, I ordered it. Wish me luck! If I like it, I'll thank you guys. (if I don't, I'll just have to cry for a few days that I spent $120 on a keyboard.)


Oh, did you order the plain 104-key Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch? By "plain", I'm referring to the non-NKRO version.


----------



## fssbzz

man, now i figure out why TwoCables like to reply with the longest post.
because he LOVE HIS KEYBOARD.which make him reply so long and on the same time he can enjoy the typing feeling with his keyboard.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


man, now i figure out why TwoCables like to reply with the longest post.
because he LOVE HIS KEYBOARD.which make him reply so long and on the same time he can enjoy the typing feeling with his keyboard.










hehehehehe


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
From what it appears, there were Das models that had media keys. (I'm new to this, throw me a bone here) Apparently, they're discontinued (according to TwoCables' link) and now just have a standard layout. If there was a Das with media keys I could get my hands on, I'd love it to death. But since they both have the same/nearly the same layout now, I'll stick the cheaper alternative.









EDIT: Alright, I ordered it. Wish me luck! If I like it, I'll thank you guys. (if I don't, I'll just have to cry for a few days that I spent $120 on a keyboard.)

the Das Model S Professional at Sidewinder Computers is now $109. they must of upped the price recently. the product photo is the old Das Professional but the photos beneath it are the Das Model S Professional with Media Keys.

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/sidewinderco..._2106_18333102


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the Das Model S Professional at Sidewinder Computers is now $109. they must of upped the price recently. the product photo is the old Das Professional but the photos beneath it are the Das Model S Professional with Media Keys.

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/sidewinderco..._2106_18333102


Oh, I would've considered it if I hadn't ordered already.

And yes, TwoCables, I got the non-NKRO. Its comes with a PS/2 adapter, but I assume since it's just an adapter NKRO won't work with it. In fact, I don't even see a PS/2 version, all of them use adapters.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Oh, I would've considered it if I hadn't ordered already.

And yes, TwoCables, I got the non-NKRO. Its comes with a PS/2 adapter, but I assume since it's just an adapter NKRO won't work with it. In fact, I don't even see a PS/2 version, all of them use adapters.


non-NKRO has 2 key rollover in USB and PS/2. there are no mechanical keyboards with full rollover under $100 on the market so I don't understand why you didn't just buy the Adesso MKB-135B or Cherry G80-3000 you could of saved alot of money which you seemed hesitant on spending


----------



## Diogones

Well I would go with a brown switch, but the keyboards listed in the keyboard guide are much too expensive. I might have to shop around for a bit and see if I can't find one at a lower price.
Once I can PM, I'll send a message to the OP, as he/she might know where I could find a high quality rubber dome board.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Diogones*


Well I would go with a brown switch, but the keyboards listed in the keyboard guide are much too expensive. I might have to shop around for a bit and see if I can't find one at a lower price.
Once I can PM, I'll send a message to the OP, as he/she might know where I could find a high quality rubber dome board.


i think the good one is this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-015-_-Product


----------



## Diogones

Wow not bad fzzbzz, I like the look of that board! It isn't mechanical, but it is probably a nice rubber dome. Thank you for the link.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Diogones*


Wow not bad fzzbzz, I like the look of that board! It isn't mechanical, but it is probably a nice rubber dome. Thank you for the link.


Keytronic also makes good rubber dome keyboards.

the I-Rocks KR-6820E-BK uses square sliders, one of the better rubber domes. the force and tactile feedback is greater than a Cherry MX Brown switch, also the rollover is anywhere between 11-16 on PS/2 with minimal blocking.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
non-NKRO has 2 key rollover in USB and PS/2. there are no mechanical keyboards with full rollover under $100 on the market so I don't understand why you didn't just buy the Adesso MKB-135B or Cherry G80-3000 you could of saved alot of money which you seemed hesitant on spending









Alright, I'll see if I can cancel my order. In addition to that, I think I'll go with the Das because it has media keys/is cheaper. Let's see how this turns out...


----------



## clownfart

If your looking to buy a new mechanical keyboard, there's some small savings from EK. Most of it is $6 or $12 off, until May 14th

Also the Otaku Filcos on sale have flat Meta keys (no Windows key dome), and "eye friendly LED's".


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clownfart* 
If your looking to buy a new mechanical keyboard, there's some small savings from EK. Most of it is $6 or $12 off, until May 14th

Also the Otaku Filcos on sale have flat Meta keys (no Windows key dome), and "eye friendly LED's".

The problem with the Otakus is that they appear to have blank keys. I'm not a touch typist, and occasionally need to be able to see what key I'm pressing.


----------



## clownfart

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
The problem with the Otakus is that they appear to have blank keys. I'm not a touch typist, and occasionally need to be able to see what key I'm pressing.

It doesn't take that much to learn. Give it a week and you're be able to touch type and know all of the keyboard.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clownfart*


It doesn't take that much to learn. Give it a week and you're be able to touch type and know all of the keyboard.


Heh, you overestimate my ability. :\\


----------



## clownfart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Heh, you overestimate my ability. :\\


It's really easy to learn, just go on typingweb.com you don't even need to register. Touch typing is hard at first but it's worth it.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clownfart*


It's really easy to learn, just go on typingweb.com you don't even need to register. Touch typing is hard at first but it's worth it.


Hmm, I'll try this website out. Thanks!


----------



## Maytan

Alright, Filco gave me a refund. I almost feel bad, though. Considering they were nice enough to give me a refund because I accidentally ordered the wrong keyboard. (the full NKRO version is $25 more expensive when including shipping, I really don't want to spend even more than I am now.)

I'm going to try my luck with the Das. Thanks for the help, TwoCables and Christine.

EDIT: Only problem is, that Das uses Cherry Blues doesn't it? I really wanted browns, as blues seem to be louder and worse for gaming.

And what do I make of this? (3-key rollover?)

Quote:



The "Das Keyboard Model S" constitutes the latest addition to the lineup, as of late 2009. It contains revised electronics to address some of the common complaints along with supporting media keys and PS/2 operation. Again, it is shipped in both Ultimate (unlabeled) and Professional (labeled) versions, both 104- and 105-key, with the addition of a labeled Professional Silent model featuring non-clicky but tactile MX brown stem keyswitches. The latter is intended for applications demanding lower noise levels than obtained with the regular clicky MX blue stem switches while retaining a similar tactile characteristic. [4] [5] [6] First samples showed improvements in areas where the previous model had problems, however they did not bear out the manufacturer's claim of "N-key rollover", instead being capable of 3-key rollover only. -Wikipedia


----------



## fssbzz

try scorpius m10?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


try scorpius m10?


Perhaps. I was getting pretty excited about the Das' media keys though.... I'm almost tempted just to get a cheap keyboard and live with it.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Perhaps. I was getting pretty excited about the Das' media keys though.... I'm almost tempted just to get a cheap keyboard and live with it.

I thought Das stopped making the media keys version? I'd send the place you're ordering from an email to be sure before ordering.


----------



## Maytan

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/daskemospr.html

^this place that Christine mentioned.

I don't know for sure, but I'd be happy with any mechanical keyboard at that price. (with NKRO, mind you.) But I really wanted Browns, so I don't know now...


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/daskemospr.html

^this place that Christine mentioned.

I don't know for sure, but I'd be happy with any mechanical keyboard at that price. (with NKRO, mind you.) But I really wanted Browns, so I don't know now...


It does say that it has them in the description, yet I only see 1 picture with them. At worst you can complain


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


It does say that it has them in the description, yet I only see 1 picture with them. At worst you can complain


Yeah, even then I could live without them. (I'd just prefer them) I'd jump right on this if it were the silent model, but it's not. :\\


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Alright, Filco gave me a refund. I almost feel bad, though. Considering they were nice enough to give me a refund because I accidentally ordered the wrong keyboard. (the full NKRO version is $25 more expensive when including shipping, I really don't want to spend even more than I am now.)

I'm going to try my luck with the Das. Thanks for the help, TwoCables and Christine.

EDIT: Only problem is, that Das uses Cherry Blues doesn't it? I really wanted browns, as blues seem to be louder and worse for gaming.

And what do I make of this? (3-key rollover?)


when the Das Model S was launched last year it had a firmware problem. Metadot recalled it and it's been corrected.

there is nothing wrong with the Das Model S.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


when the Das Model S was launched last year it had a firmware problem. Metadot recalled and it's been corrected.

there is nothing wrong with the Das Model S.


I've noticed you own one yourself. Noting that your title is 'PC Gamer', how do you like the keyboard for games? Should I hold out until I can get browns or would blues be fine? You seem to be quite knowledgeable on the subject, so I value your opinion.


----------



## Crazy9000

Blues are the worst thing known to man when it comes to gaming







.

Well maybe not quite that drastic, but I'd game with a rubber dome any day over blues.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Blues are the worst thing known to man when it comes to gaming







.

Well maybe not quite that drastic, but I'd game with a rubber dome any day over blues.


why blue is the worst for gaming?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I've noticed you own one yourself. Noting that your title is 'PC Gamer', how do you like the keyboard for games? Should I hold out until I can get browns or would blues be fine? You seem to be quite knowledgeable on the subject, so I value your opinion.


I don't like them. if you are going to play RTS or RPG you shouldn't have a problem but double tapping for sprinting, jumping, strafing like FPS they can be difficult. Cherry MX Black Linear are suited for gaming. I also paid alot more than $109 for my Das.

Cherry MX Browns are suited for gaming and typing. safest choice


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I don't like them. if you are going to play RTS or RPG you shouldn't have a problem but double tapping for sprinting, jumping, strafing like FPS they can be difficult. Cherry MX Black Linear are suited for gaming. I also paid alot more than $109 for my Das.

Cherry MX Browns are suited for gaming and typing. safest choice.


Alright, thanks! I guess I'll have to pick up a rubber-dome until I find a mech I can use. Oh well.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Alright, thanks! I guess I'll have to pick up a rubber-dome until I find a mech I can use. Oh well.

try that i-Rocks keyboard


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
try that i-Rocks keyboard









I would, but I'm really anti-back lighting. (it's kind of distracting for me when looking at my monitor...) Are there other i-Rocks that are any good? I'll check out Keytronic (as you mentioned earlier).


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I would, but I'm really anti-back lighting. (it's kind of distracting for me when looking at my monitor...) Are there other i-Rocks that are any good? I'll check out Keytronic (as you mentioned earlier).

you can turn it off if you don't like it. the square sliders and rollover are nice.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
you can turn it off if you don't like it. the square sliders and rollover are nice.

Hmm, in which case I'll consider it.

I know this one's probably awful, but I like the media keys. I assume you wouldn't have any information on it, would you?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823109201


----------



## lmnop

no I don't









the keycaps on the I-Rocks KR-6820E-BK are low profile so there is no light in between the keycaps to distract you here is a comparison between the Saitek Eclipse and I-Rock KR-6820E-BK.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
no I don't









the keycaps on the I-Rocks KR-6820E-BK are low profile so there is no light in between the keycaps to distract you here is a comparison between the Saitek Eclipse and I-Rock KR-6820E-BK.

*snip*

That actually looks pretty nice... (albeit doesn't match anything I own) Shouldn't matter though, as I can turn it off.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I don't like them. if you are going to play RTS or RPG you shouldn't have a problem but double tapping for sprinting, jumping, strafing like FPS they can be difficult. Cherry MX Black Linear are suited for gaming. I also paid alot more than $109 for my Das.

Cherry MX Browns are suited for gaming and typing. safest choice

so cherry mx blue not good for gaming like FPS, ore more then one button control?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
so cherry mx blue not good for gaming like FPS, ore more then one button control?

Yeah. Like if you're playing an rpg or RTS, you just press the button down to select your spell or switch to a building, so it doesn't really matter. I would say any game where you move, like FPS or racing, the actuation of the key gets in the way of smooth movements.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
so cherry mx blue not good for gaming like FPS, ore more then one button control?

the reason Cherry MX Blue switches are not suited for gaming is because the reset point is higher than the actuation point. the actuation point and reset point in Cherry MX Black Linear switches are the same.

Cherry MX Red Linear switches are suited for typing and gaming and would be better than Cherry MX Brown switches because they are Linear and have no Tactile point. they also have the spring from a Cherry MX Brown switch so they are light force which makes them suited for typing.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Yeah. Like if you're playing an rpg or RTS, you just press the button down to select your spell or switch to a building, so it doesn't really matter. I would say any game where you move, like FPS or racing, the actuation of the key gets in the way of smooth movements.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
the reason Cherry MX Blue switches are not suited for gaming is because the reset point is higher than the actuation point. the actuation point and reset point in Cherry MX Black Linear switches are the same.

Cherry MX Red Linear switches are suited for typing and gaming and would be better than Cherry MX Brown switches because they are Linear and have no Tactile point. they also have the spring from a Cherry MX Brown switch so they are light force which makes them suited for typing.


i don't understand how it getting the way of smooth movements.like when u press 2 buttons together it will stuck/stop?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
i don't understand how it getting the way of smooth movements.like when u press 2 buttons together it will stuck/stop?

you have to release your finger to double tap.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
you have to release your finger to double tap.

thats not a good thing to play CS:S or need for speed..or just cause 2..or ALOT ALOT OF GAMES







damm it


----------



## lmnop

<spits on the floor>

yes it is annoying


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Could get a buckling spring keyboard. Still has a nice crisp actuation point, but the actuation and reset are at the same point. I've gamed with a Model M and it works fine; I prefer my MX Browns, but the IBM is better for typing.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Could get a buckling spring keyboard. Still has a nice crisp actuation point, but the actuation and reset are at the same point. I've gamed with a Model M and it works fine; I prefer my MX Browns, but the IBM is better for typing.


Too loud for my uses, unfortunately. I'm just gonna' go with either the i-Rocks or that MS 3000 I posted.


----------



## lmnop

i'll knit you some ear muffs.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Oh, I would've considered it if I hadn't ordered already.

And yes, TwoCables, I got the non-NKRO. Its comes with a PS/2 adapter, but I assume since it's just an adapter NKRO won't work with it. In fact, I don't even see a PS/2 version, all of them use adapters.


Exactly. If a keyboard comes with a USB to PS/2 adapter but doesn't have full NKRO as one of its features, then using the adapter won't make any difference with the key rollover.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Alright, Filco gave me a refund.


Forgive me for this, but Elite Keyboards gave you the refund.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I almost feel bad, though. Considering they were nice enough to give me a refund because I accidentally ordered the wrong keyboard. (the full NKRO version is $25 more expensive when including shipping, I really don't want to spend even more than I am now.)


Meh, don't worry about it. It's very likely that they handle these kinds of things nearly every single day.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I'm going to try my luck with the Das. Thanks for the help, TwoCables and Christine.

EDIT: Only problem is, that Das uses Cherry Blues doesn't it? I really wanted browns, as blues seem to be louder and worse for gaming.

And what do I make of this? (3-key rollover?)


Hmm, I was suspicious of that. But they still claim that the Model S with media keys has full NKRO when using the included USB to PS/2 adapter.

But you are correct that the model that is available at Sidewinder is the model that has the Cherry MX Blues.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


The problem with the Otakus is that they appear to have blank keys. I'm not a touch typist, and occasionally need to be able to see what key I'm pressing.


"Otaku" basically means "geek". This is why all of the "Otaku" boards have blank keys.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Perhaps. I was getting pretty excited about the Das' media keys though.... I'm almost tempted just to get a cheap keyboard and live with it.


Please don't do this to yourself.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/daskemospr.html

^this place that Christine mentioned.

I don't know for sure, but I'd be happy with any mechanical keyboard at that price. (with NKRO, mind you.) But I really wanted Browns, so I don't know now...


There are many people who actually prefer the Cherry MX Blues for gaming. I'm not saying here that the majority prefer them, but I am saying that even though it's quite a minority, there are still those who've tried several different mechanical keyboards with different switch types and prefer the Blues. Why? Because everyone is different.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Alright, thanks! I guess I'll have to pick up a rubber-dome until I find a mech I can use. Oh well.


Hmm, I wouldn't do that. It will reduce the amount of money that you have and it could mean that you'd end up being stuck with another crappy rubber dome board.

Don't give up.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


i'll knit you some ear muffs.


Haha, I laughed pretty hard at this.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Haha, I laughed pretty hard at this.










hear me out. black with white skull and crossbones on the ear piece, red sound activated led for the eyes that plays the godzilla noise.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Forgive me for this, but Elite Keyboards gave you the refund.










Haha, my bad entirely.

Quote:



Hmm, I wouldn't do that. It will reduce the amount of money that you have and it could mean that you'd end up being stuck with another crappy rubber dome board.

Don't give up.


I'm afraid I have to. I was reluctant to spend $120, I'm really not willing to go any higher. (It'd be $135 to get that Das Silent without media keys, just a bit too high for me..)

I'm not too picky when it comes to typing, the keyboard is mostly for my gaming habits. I'm afraid I can't just sit around waiting for a price drop while I have no keyboard to use. (in case you're wondering, I've been typing this on a laptop.)

'tis a shame, but I can't really help it.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


hear me out. black with white skull and crossbones on the ear piece, red sound activated led for the eyes that plays the godzilla noise.


Alright, I just HAVE to sig this. Too funny to leave behind.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Alright, I just HAVE to sig this. Too funny to leave behind.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*




















I didn't see that coming at all. I'd buy those things in a heart-beat. (especially considering they even pronounce 'Godzilla' in that Japanese way.)


----------



## lmnop

my new tank came this morning so I am in a good mood. I paid $40 for this at wordans font is Futura (Filco).


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Haha, my bad entirely.

I'm afraid I have to. I was reluctant to spend $120, I'm really not willing to go any higher. (It'd be $135 to get that Das Silent without media keys, just a bit too high for me..)

I'm not too picky when it comes to typing, the keyboard is mostly for my gaming habits. I'm afraid I can't just sit around waiting for a price drop while I have no keyboard to use. (in case you're wondering, I've been typing this on a laptop.)

'tis a shame, but I can't really help it.


I'll admit one thing: when I was shopping for a new keyboard, I started out looking for another rubber dome board because I didn't know about mechanical keyboards yet (well, I kinda did, but I kinda scoffed/laughed at them). My absolute-maximum budget was $100 after shipping (it was seriously an absolutely maximum, no-higher-or-I'll-die type of budget).

But then I was told about mechanical keyboards and then I learned more about them on my own. As a result, I found that this was a type of keyboard that I would be a million times happier with (and I really am), and I actually ended up paying $145 shipped for my keyboard. Do I think that it was worth it? Absolutely. If I knew how much I was going to like this keyboard, then I would have gladly paid *twice* as much for it. But $145 was already way over my budget and it really hurt, except it was more than well worth it.

But if I were dealing with a broken keyboard and if I were dealing with a laptop, then damn: I probably would have purchased some cheap $5 rubber dome just so I could continue shopping for a keyboard using my sig rig instead of the laptop. So, I mean that I totally feel where you're coming from, and I think that I am recommending the best super-low-priced rubber dome keyboard that you can find just to buy you some time.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
my new tank came this morning so I am in a good mood. I paid $40 for this at wordans font is Futura (Filco).










Haha! Star Trek! I think it was well worth it.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
So, I mean that I totally feel where you're coming from, and I think that I am recommending the best super-low-priced rubber dome keyboard that you can find just to buy you some time.

I'm sure I'd love a mechanical keyboard, but I really have a budget. I'm still a student. Whereas, if I were working full-time, I wouldn't mind paying a little extra. I'll hold out for awhile and see if I change my mind, but I can't make any promises.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I'm sure I'd love a mechanical keyboard, but I really have a budget. I'm still a student. Whereas, if I were working full-time, I wouldn't mind paying a little extra. I'll hold out for awhile and see if I change my mind, but I can't make any promises.

Then I recommend just getting a decent, but really-low-priced rubber dome to buy you some time so that you can do some really decent shopping and for mechanical keyboards. I mean, this is certainly a decision that probably shouldn't be entered into lightly or quickly (I actually spent over 3 weeks trying to figure out which one I was going to get). I mean, not only does the switch type have to be selected, but then the keyboard with that switch type has to be selected. And then the lowest price on that keyboard has to be found.

So, I mean as a student, I imagine that there isn't much extra time to be doing research on mechanical keyboards and to be shopping for the best price on the one that seems to be the most perfect fit. So I think that just buying a quick replacement for the broken keyboard is a great idea just to buy you some time.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
So, I mean as a student, I imagine that there isn't much extra time to be doing research on mechanical keyboards and to be shopping for the best price on the one that seems to be the most perfect fit. So I think that just buying a quick replacement for the broken keyboard is a great idea just to buy you some time.

Yeah, I might just end up doing that. You see, my problem is finding the right keyboard for the right price. It seems I can only find one or the other, but not both together. hehe.


----------



## lmnop

I think the Adesso MKB-135B is a good choice. you could always buy another mechanical keyboard in 6 months with another switch type. maybe a Ducky or Topre. once you own a mechanical keyboard the impulse to start collecting is strong.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Yeah, I might just end up doing that. You see, my problem is finding the right keyboard for the right price. It seems I can only find one or the other, but not both together. hehe.

That's how it was for me too. So yeah, I feel your pain.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I think the Adesso MKB-135B is a good choice. you could always buy another mechanical keyboard in 6 months with another switch type. maybe a Ducky or Topre. once you own a mechanical keyboard the next impulse is to start collecting.

Maytan: this keyboard has the Cherry MX Blues.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I think the Adesso MKB-135B is a good choice. you could always buy another mechanical keyboard in 6 months with another switch type. maybe a Ducky or Topre. once you own a mechanical keyboard the impulse to start collecting is strong.

Hmm, what type of switch does it use?

EDIT: Oh, I see. Not sure spending $70 is my best bet though. I'm in need of a couple new fans which is already running me about $25. I'll have to think about it, and keep hoping something pops up on ebay. (haha...)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Hmm, what type of switch does it use?

That keyboard has the blues.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
That keyboard has the blues.

Yeah, I edited up my response a few seconds ago when I saw you had responded.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Hmm, what type of switch does it use?

EDIT: Oh, I see. Not sure spending $70 is my best bet though. I'm in need of a couple new fans which is already running me about $25. I'll have to think about it, and keep hoping something pops up on ebay. (haha...)

Adesso MKB-135B it looks similar to a iOne Scorpius M10 because they use the same OEM. it uses Cherry MX Blue switches and comes with a USB Hub and Multimedia ports. the Adesso claims it has full n-key rollover but nobody has bought it to test it.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Adesso MKB-135B it looks similar to a iOne Scorpius M10 because they use the same OEM. it uses Cherry MX Blue switches and comes with a USB Hub and Multimedia ports. the Adesso claims it has full n-key rollover but nobody has bought it to test it.

As much as I'd love to test it, I'm reluctant about Blues. If I have to lift my finger up just to double tap a key I'm going to start slowing up.


----------



## nm324

Which IBM computers came with the Model M? Trying to look up some off craigslist.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I'm sure I'd love a mechanical keyboard, but I really have a budget. I'm still a student. Whereas, if I were working full-time, I wouldn't mind paying a little extra. I'll hold out for awhile and see if I change my mind, but I can't make any promises.

This would be my recommendation for someone with a very small budget. It's not the best, but it's not a rubber domer either, and it's under $20 shipped.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Cherry-Full-Size...ht_3082wt_1165
Or even cheaper yet http://cgi.ebay.com/Wired-PS-2-Cherr...#ht_500wt_1182

I'm not sure what switch they have. I'd guess Cherry ML's or MY's or something. Someone here knows, I'm sure


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


This would be my recommendation for someone with a very small budget. It's not the best, but it's not a rubber domer either, and it's under $20 shipped.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Cherry-Full-Size...ht_3082wt_1165
Or even cheaper yet http://cgi.ebay.com/Wired-PS-2-Cherr...#ht_500wt_1182

I'm not sure what switch they have. I'd guess Cherry ML's or MY's or something. Someone here knows, I'm sure


Very interesting. I guess you can't go wrong for <$20. incl. shipping. Perhaps I'll pick up one of these.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Very interesting. I guess you can't go wrong for <$20. incl. shipping. Perhaps I'll pick up one of these.


By the way, the $5.99 keyboard is just a rubber dome (big sheet of rubber) keyboard. But I do not know what kind of quality this keyboard has nor do I know about the quality of that big rubber sheet it uses.

However, as a temporary replacement for a broken keyboard that will buy you some time to do some proper research and shopping for a mechanical keyboard, this looks like an excellent buy.


----------



## Maytan

Something worth mentioning, I LOVE laptop style keyboards (slim 'chiclet' keys). I had one for awhile before I got rid of it because it was wireless. (Paying for batteries is meh) It felt great while typing, wasn't loud, and did great for gaming too. I'm assuming it was a scissor switch keyboard.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Something worth mentioning, I LOVE laptop style keyboards (slim 'chiclet' keys). I had one for awhile before I got rid of it because it was wireless. (Paying for batteries is meh) It felt great while typing, wasn't loud, and did great for gaming too. I'm assuming it was a scissor switch keyboard.


why not a IBM Model M or Dell AT101W. Rome wasn't built in one day. baby steps.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


why not a IBM Model M or Dell AT101W. Rome wasn't built in one day. baby steps.


Never heard of the AT101W, but I'd rather not get a Model M. Any Model M I find is most likely used, and to add to that it's a tad too loud. (I'm just weeeebit obsessive about typing noise.)


----------



## lmnop

oh right I forgot ear muffs, sorry









heres what Cherry MX Blue switches sound like













heres what Cherry MX Red Linear switches sound like


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Something worth mentioning, I LOVE laptop style keyboards (slim 'chiclet' keys). I had one for awhile before I got rid of it because it was wireless. (Paying for batteries is meh) It felt great while typing, wasn't loud, and did great for gaming too. I'm assuming it was a scissor switch keyboard.


Could look into this. It's also mad cheap
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823201033

For me, if I'm not going mechanical then I'm not paying more than $20 dollars. lol

I was looking into this one myself just because of the size. The ML switches don't thrill me, but I haven't tried them yet, only heard about them. I figure it might be a nice portable keyboard to mess around with.
http://cgi.ebay.com/PS2-MINI-FOOTPRI...#ht_2050wt_939


----------



## Manyak

For a scissor switch board, the kings of the hill are the IBM/Lenovo ones.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


oh right I forgot ear muffs, sorry









heres what Cherry MX Blue switches sound like






heres what Cherry MX Red Linear switches sound like







The red's were a bit more subtle, I didn't mind it. The blues weren't bad, but a little bit too loud.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


For me, if I'm not going mechanical then I'm not paying more than $20 dollars. lol


My thoughts exactly.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


For a scissor switch board, the kings of the hill are the IBM/Lenovo ones.


Where would I go about finding those?

EDIT: Here's the keyboard I had, I loved it.


----------



## lmnop

only video of Cherry MX Red Linear to. the Das should have a slightly different pitch because the switches are plate mounted and the ones in the Cherry G80-3000 are not.

*Edit*: that HP Wireless review was terrible. he didn't mention what switches they use, rollover or depress a single key. I would wrap the cable around his throat and strangle him except it doesn't have one <frown>


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


only video of Cherry MX Red Linear to. the Das should have a slightly different pitch because the switches are plate mounted and the ones in the Cherry G80-3000 are not.

*Edit*: that HP Wireless review was terrible. he didn't mention what switches they use or even depress a single key. I would wrap the cable around his throat and strangle him except it doesn't have one <frown>


Haha, I agree. The review was pretty awful. The keys were really springy though, like they had a lot of life to them. The Volume Control was a godsend as well.

EDIT: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-011-_-Product

Here it is. Except mine was the slim version.

Quote:



Operate quietly with the high-tech "scissor switch" design


Whad'ya know, I was right!


----------



## lmnop

nubs are crawling out of the woodwork these days


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Never heard of the AT101W, but I'd rather not get a Model M. Any Model M I find is most likely used, and to add to that it's a tad too loud. (I'm just weeeebit obsessive about typing noise.)

Yeah, so was I. I wanted my keyboard to be dead silent, actually. But here I am typing on a keyboard that is the opposite of the sound I was looking for. However, the quality of the sound is very pleasing to my ears. I attribute it to the build quality and the wonderfully crisp click of the Cherry MX Blues.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
The red's were a bit more subtle, I didn't mind it. The blues weren't bad, but a little bit too loud.

The audio in every YouTube video I have ever seen of a keyboard with the Cherry MX Blues seems to really exaggerate the volume level. Most videos even seem to make the crispness of the click a little too high pitched, or perhaps a little too ear-piercing. Some videos kill the click of the switch entirely and make it sound no different than the Cherry MX Browns.

I mean, my keyboard sounds quite a bit quieter than what I was expecting because I sat here and watched dozens of YouTube videos of keyboard that have the Cherry MX Blues.

I'm not trying to recommend the Cherry MX Blues, but I'm just trying to say that even though using YouTube videos is a damn good idea (and I do recommend continuing to use YouTube as a resource like this), just be aware that the keyboards will seem louder than they are in real life.

Not only that, but some videos will make a keyboard sound quieter than it actually is in real life.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
My thoughts exactly.

Where would I go about finding those?

EDIT: Here's the keyboard I had, I loved it. 




lol @ this idiot who says he loves it when he finds reviews of products on YouTube before buying one, but can't even figure out how to do a proper review of a keyboard.

Sorry, but I couldn't even finish the video. lol


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Sorry, but I couldn't even finish the video. lol

No apologies needed, I just got that video so you guys could see the keyboard.

I found one of them on ebay for $20 after shipping. I might pick it up, (assuming the auction stays this low) and then I'll use it until I make up my mind on the whole mechanical business.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
No apologies needed, I just got that video so you guys could see the keyboard.

I found one of them on ebay for $20 after shipping. I might pick it up, (assuming the auction stays this low) and then I'll use it until I make up my mind on the whole mechanical business.

I suppose that might be a good idea.

By the way - and I apologize for this - I edited my post above. But I'm done editing it now.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I suppose that might be a good idea.

By the way - and I apologize for this - I edited my post above. But I'm done editing it now.









Alright. Now this is obviously really expensive, but take a look:
http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/c..._menu_area=yes

I was snooping around here:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?p=179296

EDIT: Nevermind, apparently they don't like it.

I'll just stick to my HP for now I guess.


----------



## KipH

Hey Maytan. I went to the local store to see what they had. Asked for some of the Ducky or Cherries that people had been asking for. They had an i-rocks with blues in stock in my price. I picked it up and don't regret it. But I would not recommend this lay out to anyone who can type. The ?/ key is in an odd place. Hows that for poor impulse control.

Blues do make typing so much faster and easier on the fingers. If you can find a good layout with blues for cheapish I would say go for it. You can always use a $5 rubber dome of gaming if it makes that much difference. I thought I might, but the blues are fine for my games. And its very quiet, quieter by far than my g15 if I don't bottom out. I type with sleepers in the room.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
Hey Maytan. I went to the local store to see what they had. Asked for some of the Ducky or Cherries that people had been asking for. They had an i-rocks with blues in stock in my price. I picked it up and don't regret it. But I would not recommend this lay out to anyone who can type. The ?/ key is in an odd place. Hows that for poor impulse control.

Blues do make typing so much faster and easier on the fingers. If you can find a good layout with blues for cheapish I would say go for it. You can always use a $5 rubber dome of gaming if it makes that much difference. I thought I might, but the blues are fine for my games. And its very quiet, quieter by far than my g15 if I don't bottom out. I type with sleepers in the room.

I don't doubt that they can be used for gaming, but like I said earlier, if I have to lift my finger up just to double click a key it's going to bother me. That's an interesting plan of action, to get a cheap rubber dome to go with a Cherry Blue mech. The problem is this, the only reason I'm looking at 'quality keyboards' is gaming. If I were just typing I wouldn't care that much.

You do share the same problem as me, though. I also need to type around sleeping people, hence why I can't have a loud keyboard.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I don't doubt that they can be used for gaming, but like I said earlier, if I have to lift my finger up just to double click a key it's going to bother me. That's an interesting plan of action, to get a cheap rubber dome to go with a Cherry Blue mech. The problem is this, the only reason I'm looking at 'quality keyboards' is gaming. If I were just typing I wouldn't care that much.

To be honest, I don't understand why anyone has a problem with the Cherry MX Blues for gaming. When I go to repeatedly press a key, it doesn't bother me one bit. I just don't truly understand from personal experience why the Cherry MX Blues are "bad" for gaming.

However, I am not saying that they're good for gaming. But remember, while a minority, many people still have a very strong preference for the Cherry MX Blues for gaming.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
You do share the same problem as me, though. I also need to type around sleeping people, hence why I can't have a loud keyboard.

Oh, then the Buckling Springs are indeed definitely out of the question.

However, even a keyboard that uses a switch type that has no click at all can still be too loud for anyone trying to sleep due to bottoming out the keys.


----------



## javifast

Topre keyboard is what you need. ItÂ´s not loud at all. But very expensive...


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
However, even a keyboard that uses a switch type that has no click at all can still be too loud for anyone trying to sleep due to bottoming out the keys.

This is why I loved my scissor switch keyboard. It was pretty quiet, even compared to the generic rubber dome Dell I have from years ago. What I'd really like is a way to test out these different types of key switches before I buy. Let's be honest here, there isn't a guarantee I'll like mechanical switches. (not necessarily because of the switch, but because I might prefer smaller 'chiclet' keys.)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *javifast* 
Topre keyboard is what you need. ItÂ´s not loud at all. But very expensive...

What the hell? This keyboard is $228 before shipping!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
This is why I loved my scissor switch keyboard. It was pretty quiet, even compared to the generic rubber dome Dell I have from years ago. What I'd really like is a way to test out these different types of key switches before I buy. Let's be honest here, there isn't a guarantee I'll like mechanical switches. (not necessarily because of the switch, but because I might prefer smaller 'chiclet' keys.)

Hmm, then you might be happiest with the best scissor switch type keyboard - especially considering how quiet the keyboard needs to be in this situation. So I mean if you can find the better Thinkpad keyboard, then I say that this would be the final purchase.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Hmm, then you might be happiest with the best scissor switch type keyboard - especially considering how quiet the keyboard needs to be in this situation. So I mean if you can find the better Thinkpad keyboard, then I say that this would be the final purchase.

Definitely more to think about. Like I said, I'd reaaaally like to be able to try out these keyboards before I buy. I'm just not sure...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Definitely more to think about. Like I said, I'd reaaaally like to be able to try out these keyboards before I buy. I'm just not sure...


Yeah, I remember that feeling. But I don't have any noise restrictions either. I mean, I have a preference for dead silent keyboards (like how silent really good laptops are), but if I had people trying to sleep within a few feet of this keyboard, then they would probably have trouble falling asleep unless they were really tired. However, it most certainly wouldn't wake them up (err, I know it wouldn't wake *me* up). Plus, now that I have a keyboard that has a really nice sound to it, I no longer enjoy typing on quiet keyboards. It's like trying to speak when I can't hear yourself.

But you see, there's a reason why I said _"I remember that feeling"_. After doing all of that research that I did, after using YouTube and re-reading the information in this Mechanical Keyboard Guide, and after having a thread that asked all of Overclock.net to help me buy a new mechanical keyboard, I no longer needed to try before I buy. So this is why I keep saying that you could just buy any old keyboard right now in order to buy you some time so that you can do some proper research and shopping.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

You can get a Compaq MX-11800 for $20+shipping:
http://www.pcliquidations.com/item.a...60164167166161

I'm going to be putting up a video review tomorrow, I filmed myself just now and I'll overlay voice and edit tomorrow. That should give you an idea if it's a valid option for you.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But you see, there's a reason why I said _"I remember that feeling"_. After doing all of that research that I did, after using YouTube and re-reading the information in this Mechanical Keyboard Guide, and after having a thread that asked all of Overclock.net to help me buy a new mechanical keyboard, I no longer needed to try before I buy. So this is why I keep saying that you could just buy any old keyboard right now in order to buy you some time so that you can do some proper research and shopping.


I definitely do a lot of research before buying, watching videos and etc. The problem is, even then I can't get a feel for things. Like before I order my case, I looked up a ton of reviews/videos, and I STILL couldn't believe how big it was. And for that matter, all the complaints I read about were nonexistent for me. The problem is, it works both ways. I've ordered things in the past that I ended up being unhappy with. I'm sure everyone does at some point.

I know you've stated you felt the same as I did in a lot of these situations, and I believe you. The difference isn't just the fact that I need to try to be quieter, though. Being different people, there's a large chance for a difference in preference. It's really hard to tell with things (especially with peripherals such as monitors) over the internet. I'm glad you were happy with your purchase, but I'm a bit more skeptical. (especially with my limited supply of cash)


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


You can get a Compaq MX-11800 for $20+shipping:
http://www.pcliquidations.com/item.a...60164167166161

I'm going to be putting up a video review tomorrow, I filmed myself just now and I'll overlay voice and edit tomorrow. That should give you an idea if it's a valid option for you.


I'll look forward to it.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


To be honest, I don't understand why anyone has a problem with the Cherry MX Blues for gaming. When I go to repeatedly press a key, it doesn't bother me one bit. I just don't truly understand from personal experience why the Cherry MX Blues are "bad" for gaming.

However, I am not saying that they're good for gaming. But remember, while a minority, many people still have a very strong preference for the Cherry MX Blues for gaming.


It's not repeatedly pressing a key, it's just when you have to press the key twice fairly quickly.

I would hazard a guess that anyone who doesn't mind the blues for gaming is not a "serious" gamer, or don't play that many games that require real time movement like a FPS. Since you have to lift your finger all the way up, even if you get used to it, it will make you slower, and therefore worse. A rubber dome keyboard, while mushy, is a lot better for gaming.

For your sake though, it is possible to prefer an inferior product over the superior one.

BTW to clear this up, Twocables, are you saying you personally like the blues for gaming? What kind of games do you play? If it's anything like a FPS or Racing game, I would strongly suggest trying out another switch type so you can see the difference first hand, although even a rubber dome should show you.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I definitely do a lot of research before buying, watching videos and etc. The problem is, even then I can't get a feel for things. Like before I order my case, I looked up a ton of reviews/videos, and I STILL couldn't believe how big it was. And for that matter, all the complaints I read about were nonexistent for me. The problem is, it works both ways. I've ordered things in the past that I ended up being unhappy with. I'm sure everyone does at some point.

I know you've stated you felt the same as I did in a lot of these situations, and I believe you. The difference isn't just the fact that I need to try to be quieter, though. Being different people, there's a large chance for a difference in preference. It's really hard to tell with things (especially with peripherals such as monitors) over the internet. I'm glad you were happy with your purchase, but I'm a bit more skeptical. (especially with my limited supply of cash)


I was skeptical too. But like I said, watching all those YouTube videos was tremendously helpful to me (much more helpful than one might think). I just kept watching one video after another and before I knew it, I was getting a fairly decent idea of how each switch type and keyboard was different from each other. I then kept coming back to the Original Post of this thread to review certain things, and then I'd go back to the videos and watch them again.

*Some* of the videos even go into pretty fine detail to literally show the difference in feel between switches by zooming in and slowly pressing a key a few times in a row, and then slowly pressing a key over and over on a different board with different switches.

But, I'm not a student, so I had the time to spend on this kind of research. I literally obsessed over it and spent most of my free time trying to figure out which switch type I would like the most.

But of course, it's not like I think that everyone has to go through such extremes to select a mechanical keyboard. However, it did give me the impression that you get what you put into it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


It's not repeatedly pressing a key, it's just when you have to press the key twice fairly quickly.

I would hazard a guess that anyone who doesn't mind the blues for gaming is not a "serious" gamer, or don't play that many games that require real time movement like a FPS. Since you have to lift your finger all the way up, even if you get used to it, it will make you slower, and therefore worse. A rubber dome keyboard, while mushy, is a lot better for gaming.

For your sake though, it is possible to prefer an inferior product over the superior one.

BTW to clear this up, Twocables, are you saying you personally like the blues for gaming? What kind of games do you play? If it's anything like a FPS or Racing game, I would strongly suggest trying out another switch type so you can see the difference first hand, although even a rubber dome should show you.


No. That's why I didn't include myself in that statement (although, I do realize that some people include their selves in such a statement). Besides, I can't say that I have a preference because the Tactile Click is the only mechanical keyboard that I have ever owned. Plus, I am not a serious gamer.

However, I just opened up Notepad and double-tapped several dozen times as quickly as I possibly could: I always got 2 characters - every single time. So, I still don't know how to explain why the Cherry MX Blues are less practical for gaming.

I have Crysis, Mirror's Edge, Ghostbusters, Quake 4, TRON 2.0, and Unreal II. What should I do in order to show myself why the Cherry MX Blues aren't good for gaming? I mean, what maneuvers should I do?


----------



## Crazy9000

Anything where you need to adjust direction back and forth quickly. I suggest a racing demo I guess. I don't play racing games personally, but that sounds like what most people would be doing quick movements in. You can do quick movements in FPS games, but then again some people just run straight instead of strafing around and such.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Anything where you need to adjust direction back and forth quickly. I suggest a racing demo I guess. I don't play racing games personally, but that sounds like what most people would be doing quick movements in. You can do quick movements in FPS games, but then again some people just run straight instead of strafing around and such.


Oh, so is "double-tapping" alternating 2 keys very, very, very quickly?


----------



## Crazy9000

I believe Christine is referring to the movement you do in the newer unreal tournaments, where you have to say double-tap the spacebar quickly, and it will jump twice. I'm just trying to give a broader example of how it affects more games. The double tap is a good example though, since if you take your finger all the way up, the second tap will usually be too slow and it won't work.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I believe Christine is referring to the movement you do in the newer unreal tournaments, where you have to say double-tap the spacebar quickly, and it will jump twice. I'm just trying to give a broader example of how it affects more games. The double tap is a good example though, since if you take your finger all the way up, the second tap will usually be too slow and it won't work.


Dammit. I still don't understand. I'm sorry.

Maybe I should just play some Crysis. I mean, that's the one thing I haven't done yet since I bought this keyboard.







I've played Mirror's Edge too, but I didn't have a single problem - I actually played it better than I did on the G15 and Lycosa thanks to this keyboard.

As for the other games I mentioned: I haven't played them on this keyboard yet either.


----------



## Crazy9000

Here let me draw a poor graph lol

I believe this is whats going on:

Most keys once you lift it above the actuation point (where it registers the key), and then press it back down to the actuation point, it will register another keystroke. On the blues, you have to lift the key up a little higher to make it register a keystroke again. This makes far less mistakes in typing, since it's unlikely you will hit a key twice on accident, but it is not a good feature for gaming.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Here let me draw a poor graph lol

I believe this is whats going on:

Most keys once you lift it above the actuation point (where it registers the key), and then press it back down to the actuation point, it will register another keystroke. On the blues, you have to lift the key up a little higher to make it register a keystroke again. This makes far less mistakes in typing, since it's unlikely you will hit a key twice on accident, but it is not a good feature for gaming.


Thank you. I think I'm getting a better understanding now. However, I'm also beginning to think that this is some very serious nit-picking and I'm starting to see why some people still prefer the blues for gaming even though all of what you guys are saying is true.


----------



## W4LNUT5

What crazy is trying to say is the reset point is noticeably higher than the actuation point.

Where in a MX black, both the actuation point and reset point are pretty much on top of each other. So you could feather the key with just a slight stutter of your finger at the actuation point, and register multiple times.

Where as with the Blue switches, you must release the key all the way up to the high reset point, before you can proceed to actuating the key again.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


What crazy is trying to say is the reset point is noticeably higher than the actuation point.


That's not something that I'm having trouble understanding. I mean, this has been stated exactly like you stated it, and it has been stated dozens of times by everyone.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Where in a MX black, both the actuation point and reset point are pretty much on top of each other. So you could feather the key with just a slight stutter of your finger at the actuation point, and register multiple times.


I am doing this with the Tactile Click in Notepad right now.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Where as with the Blue switches, you must release the key all the way up to the high reset point, before you can proceed to actuating the key again.


What I'm doing is keeping the key just beneath the tactile bump and I can control it all day.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


That's not something that I'm having trouble understanding. I mean, this has been stated exactly like you stated it, and it has been stated dozens of times by everyone.

I am doing this with the Tactile Click in Notepad right now.

What I'm doing is keeping the key just beneath the tactile bump and I can control it all day.


As you've said. For the most part, it's nit-picking. Twas just stating the technicalities behind it.

I do notice the tactile bump getting in the way, but I need to type on this computer still, so the Clears were a compromise (like the browns). It's really noticeable when I try to double jump with the scout in TF2. Sometimes the bump throws me out of rhythm, and I end up dying like an idiot.








(By out of Rhythm, I mean I don't bring the key back up far enough, and then I push down again for nothing)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


As you've said. For the most part, it's nit-picking. That was just the technicalities behind it.

I do notice the tactile bump getting in the way, but I need to type on this computer still, so the Clears were a compromise (like the browns). It's really noticeable when I try to double jump with the scout in TF2. Sometimes the bump throws me out of rhythm, and I end up dying like an idiot.










After my Notepad test, I think I understand how that would happen to you or anyone else.


----------



## W4LNUT5

http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...&pid=rf_se1700
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...2&pid=pdkb400b

Do want. . . either one







. One of these two will be my next purchase. I figure by the time fall rolls around.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...&pid=rf_se1700
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...2&pid=pdkb400b

Do want. . . either one







. One of these two will be my next purchase. I figure by the time fall rolls around.

Why not the all 55g version of the Realforce?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn*


Why not the all 55g version of the Realforce?


the 55g model is probably better suited for gaming where the inconsistent force of the standard model is a problem for gaming. in the end the Topre Realforce is a typing keyboard and Paulie Walnuts owns a Deck Legend so I would choose the standard model for the ergonomic feature as well.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Thank you. I think I'm getting a better understanding now. However, I'm also beginning to think that this is some very serious nit-picking and I'm starting to see why some people still prefer the blues for gaming even though all of what you guys are saying is true.


I don't like it at all, I now use my Microsoft Comfort Curve for practicing and scrims.


----------



## Crazy9000

It's not nit picking on the blues, I literally would use a $5 rubber dome keyboard over them in games, assuming I could press enough keys at once lol. It's a pretty big deal, I consider quite a few games unplayable with them.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Alright. Now this is obviously really expensive, but take a look:
http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/c..._menu_area=yes

I was snooping around here:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?p=179296

EDIT: Nevermind, apparently they don't like it.

I'll just stick to my HP for now I guess.

If you're going to be that picky then get this one.

And just because one person doesn't like a keyboard that doesn't make it bad. The new Lenovo ones aren't as high quality as the older IBM ones, but that doesn't mean that they're HP cheap and going to fall apart. And their feel is still excellent, and they still have no flex, which is all that really matters.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I don't like it at all, I now use my Microsoft Comfort Curve for practicing and scrims.

FWIW, I would have called you crazy before this weekend. I got my hands on a SIIG Mechanical KB ( Cherry Blues ). Although the keyboard feels great for typing and other non-gaming uses, there isn't any type of game I'd prefer to play with the blues over any of my Cherry Blacks. I would probably prefer a rubberdome over the Blues for gaming too. The way the blues work, it requires just way too much lifting for fast double taps in fps movement or rts commands. Sorry TwoCables, I have to agree 100% with Imnop and Crazy9000 on this one, after getting to use Blacks, Blues, Browns, and Black Alps. Cherry Blacks are superior for gaming in every way ( I'll hopefully get to use Reds by the end of this month ).

Crazy9000: Saw your comment earlier saying only non-serious gamers could prefer the Blues over Blacks, would have totally wrote this off if I didn't experience using the blues today. You and Imnop are flatout right!

TwoCables, the best description I can provide is the fact that I don't have to fully release the key my finger just pressed down to register another fast press. If you've ever played a fighting game on an arcade stick, a technique top level players use is double-tapping, it's used with 2 fingers instead of 1 though. I feel as though I can only replicate such precise and agile presses on a linear switch. This strong belief is only towards gaming, the blues feel great for everything else, very fun to use.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
FWIW, I would have called you crazy before this weekend. I got my hands on a SIIG Mechanical KB ( Cherry Blues ). Although the keyboard feels great for typing and other non-gaming uses, there isn't any type of game I'd prefer to play with the blues over any of my Cherry Blacks. I would probably prefer a rubberdome over the Blues for gaming too. The way the blues work, it requires just way too much lifting for fast double taps in fps movement or rts commands. Sorry TwoCables, I have to agree 100% with Imnop and Crazy9000 on this one, after getting to use Blacks, Blues, Browns, and Black Alps. Cherry Blacks are superior for gaming in every way ( I'll hopefully get to use Reds by the end of this month ).

Crazy9000: Saw your comment earlier saying only non-serious gamers could prefer the Blues over Blacks, would have totally wrote this off if I didn't experience using the blues today. You and Imnop are flatout right!

TwoCables, the best description I can provide is the fact that I don't have to fully release the key my finger just pressed down to register another fast press. If you've ever played a fighting game on an arcade stick, a technique top level players use is double-tapping, it's used with 2 fingers instead of 1 though. I feel as though I can only replicate such precise and agile presses on a linear switch. This strong belief is only towards gaming, the blues feel great for everything else, very fun to use.

I don't need an apology. I mean, it's not like I was trying to say that lmnop and Crazy9000 are wrong or anything like that - I was more or less just trying to better understand why.

On a completely unrelated note: as you may have noticed, I typed "lmnop". Her name is "lmnop", as in "a b c d e f g h i j k *l m n o p*". Or, "L M N O P".


----------



## ez12a

yesterday at work a dude dropped off 5 black Dell AT101Ws in the recycle bin. grabbed me one and took the rest and left it in our keyboard stash.

my collection now stands at:
-Filco Majestouch non-NKRO Tactile click
-Focus 2001
-Dell AT101W


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ez12a* 
yesterday at work a dude dropped off 5 black Dell AT101Ws in the recycle bin. grabbed me one and took the rest and left it in our keyboard stash.

my collection now stands at:
-Filco Majestouch non-NKRO Tactile click
-Focus 2001
-Dell AT101W

Where's mine?









And back to the space savers - I'd most likely be using them with my laptop or places more on the go, so they'd see more typing then gaming.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Think you could send me one of those AT101Ws?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


If you're going to be that picky then get this one.

And just because one person doesn't like a keyboard that doesn't make it bad. The new Lenovo ones aren't as high quality as the older IBM ones, but that doesn't mean that they're HP cheap and going to fall apart. And their feel is still excellent, and they still have no flex, which is all that really matters.


True. Definitely one to consider.

During my own time, I've snuffed up a few scissor-switch keyboards. Firstly, I found the Logitech Illuminated. Definitely pricey for a non-mechanical, but it has laser-etched keys and PerfectStroke. (I've heard good things about PerfectStroke.) Secondly, I've come to the conclusion that the MS3000 keyboard I posted earlier is scissor-switch. (It's only $20 and has a lot of media keys.) Thirdly, I've heard good things aboure the Enermax Aurora:

http://techreport.com/articles.x/16522

EDIT: Deciding to look up that AT101W everyone's talking about. I found an awesome black version, but it's sold out. http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index...id/0/id/330053

Wait, wait. I found one elsewhere. (and extremely cheap too!) What's the consensus on this board?

Haha, more and more questions popping up. What's this? http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-VINTAGE-37L0...item51839724b1


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Think you could send me one of those AT101Ws?

my coworker took the cleanest one, i got the second cleanest one...the only ones left are well used (i.e. dirty). you still want one? lol


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
True. Definitely one to consider.

During my own time, I've snuffed up a few scissor-switch keyboards. Firstly, I found the Logitech Illuminated. Definitely pricey for a non-mechanical, but it has laser-etched keys and PerfectStroke. (I've heard good things about PerfectStroke.) Secondly, I've come to the conclusion that the MS3000 keyboard I posted earlier is scissor-switch. (It's only $20 and has a lot of media keys.) Thirdly, I've heard good things aboure the Enermax Aurora:

http://techreport.com/articles.x/16522

EDIT: Deciding to look up that AT101W everyone's talking about. I found an awesome black version, but it's sold out. http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index...id/0/id/330053

Wait, wait. I found one elsewhere. (and extremely cheap too!) What's the consensus on this board?

Haha, more and more questions popping up. What's this? http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-VINTAGE-37L0...item51839724b1

Black AT101 on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_1788wt_1165


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Black AT101 on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_1788wt_1165

'tis the one I'm watching.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
'tis the one I'm watching.









me too


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Dirty is no problem, got plenty of isopropyl alcohol. I can't pay, except maybe to contribute to shipping. But I'd be very interested.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
me too

Sounds like we may have to do battle.









Assuming I decide to bid. I'm really leaning towards just picking up that MS3000 cause it's so cheap.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Sounds like we may have to do battle.









Assuming I decide to bid. I'm really leaning towards just picking up that MS3000 cause it's so cheap.

I'm not going to bid on it. I'm just watching it. If no one bids on it as it nears the end of it's auction, I might make an attempt to get it for the current price. But I'm not going to bid any higher as I do not need it for anything. I'd probably give it to a family member and try to convert them to the mechanical keyboard world (Example: my mom does a ton of typing and I've bought her an ABS M1 while it was on sale. I think she'll appreciate it)


----------



## KipH

That MS3000 sure do look purdy. I would love to give it a try. I wonder if we could get Manyak to add it to his list of reviewed boards? If we say "Please?"


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


That MS3000 sure do look purdy. I would love to give it a try. I wonder if we could get Manyak to add it to his list of reviewed boards? If we say "Please?"










Yeah, it's pretty sleek looking.


----------



## TwoCables

In light of the thread below, I have a question that I've been wanting to answer for a while now: What would happen if I spilt Simply Lemonade or Simply Orange Juice (Grove Made "High Pulp" too...) all over my Filco Majestouch?

http://www.overclock.net/rants-raves...-me-130-a.html

He spilt milk, but I can't drink milk so I drink Simply Lemonade and Simply Orange Juice instead.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
In light of the thread below, I have a question that I've been wanting to answer for a while now: What would happen if I spilt Simply Lemonade or Simply Orange Juice (Grove Made "High Pulp" too...) all over my Filco Majestouch?

http://www.overclock.net/rants-raves...-me-130-a.html

He spilt milk, but I can't drink milk so I drink Simply Lemonade and Simply Orange Juice instead.

Unplug it immediately, put it in a bag full of uncooked rice for 24hr's, and hope for the best.

I did this to the ABS M1 already. It lived.

Was a Soda spill.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Unplug it immediately, put it in a bag full of uncooked rice for 24hr's, and hope for the best.

I did this to the ABS M1 already. It lived.

Was a Soda spill.

Wow.

Thank you! It sounds like I need to do some shopping so that I can be prepared.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Wow.

Thank you! It sounds like I need to do some shopping so that I can be prepared.

I'm a cooking fiend so I usually have uncooked rice hanging around. So that's not to much of a concern.

But uncooked rice is the method used for alot of electronic water-damage recoveries. I can't even remember how long ago I heard about that.

And anyone wondering, yes the ABS M1 is officially the worst treated piece of technology I own


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I'm a cooking fiend so I usually have uncooked rice hanging around. So that's not to much of a concern.

But uncooked rice is the method used for alot of electronic water-damage recoveries. I can't even remember how long ago I heard about that.

And anyone wondering, yes the ABS M1 is officially the worst treated piece of technology I own









Damn. Well it's just like I told that guy who spilled milk on his G15: every single little thing in this world happens for a reason. So, if he didn't spill milk on his G15 and post his rant about it, then I never would have asked this question just now. I mean, I am very glad that I asked because now I know what to do if this happens. Fortunately, I think I already have those Zip-Loc Big Bags that came out relatively recently, so now I know what I'm getting the next time I go grocery shopping: tons of uncooked rice!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Damn. Well it's just like I told that guy who spilled milk on his G15: every single little thing in this world happens for a reason. So, if he didn't spill milk on his G15 and post his rant about it, then I never would have asked this question just now. I mean, I am very glad that I asked because now I know what to do if this happens. Fortunately, I think I already have those Zip-Loc Big Bags that came out relatively recently, so now I know what I'm getting the next time I go grocery shopping: tons of uncooked rice!


http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/pr...527&navAction=

I've got that sitting in the Garage for this reason actually. It's big enough to fit most electronics.

The only down side is you'll need to go heavy duty on the cleaning when you pull the keyboard out. Rice grains & dust get EVERYWHERE.

Small price to pay for $150 saved.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/pr...527&navAction=

I've got that sitting in the Garage for this reason actually. It's big enough to fit most electronics.

The only down side is you'll need to go heavy duty on the cleaning when you pull the keyboard out. Rice grains & dust get EVERYWHERE.

Small price to pay for $150 saved.


So damn, if this were to happen and if I were to stick it in uncooked rice, then there would be uncooked rice dust inside the switches too. But hey, if that's true, then that's a good thing because now I'm going to be even _*more*_ careful (and I am already being extremely overly-cautious).


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


So damn, if this were to happen and if I were to stick it in uncooked rice, then there would be uncooked rice dust inside the switches too. But hey, if that's true, then that's a good thing because now I'm going to be even _*more*_ careful (and I am already being extremely overly-cautious).


I didn't have any inside the switches after I blew it out with the air compressor. Everything is back to normal for the most part. Looks just about as new as it ever will.

Keys got ab it of that shine on them though.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I didn't have any inside the switches after I blew it out with the air compressor. Everything is back to normal for the most part. Looks just about as new as it ever will.

Keys got ab it of that shine on them though.


I'm just really, really, really, really, really anal about dust. I am extremely detail-oriented, and I picture dust the way the show _CSI_ would show it (all up-close and in extreme detail). So, I'd be thinking about all of the rice dust inside the switches even if I had the most powerful (but safe) air compressor.


----------



## Crazy9000

Actually Twocables what you want to do is wash the board in water. Use the distilled or whichever water it is that is just pure water, and won't leave any minerals behind.

Just make sure that it's 100% dry before plugging it back in, and there won't be any problems. This way will actually clean the spilled juice off, as opposed to just mopping what you can up like the rice would.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Actually Twocables what you want to do is wash the board in water. Use the distilled or whichever water it is that is just pure water, and won't leave any minerals behind.

Just make sure that it's 100% dry before plugging it back in, and there won't be any problems. This way will actually clean the spilled juice off, as opposed to just mopping what you can up like the rice would.


Oh, I was actually going to ask if that's even safe. And y'know, I would much rather do this since both methods would mean that I'd have to wait at least 24 hours.


----------



## Crazy9000

The main thing is that the rice would just soak up a lot of the spill, and would have a good chance of making the board work again, while the water actually cleans the board.

I would suggest going to store and getting a gallon of the water, pouring half of it into a tub or something, slosh the board around in that, pour that water out, then soak the board in the rest for 10 mins, then let it dry overnight.

Make sure you don't use tap water, as that will leave behind minerals and could ruin the circuit board!


----------



## Manyak

If you want to be extra clean, and don't mind a bit of work, the dishwasher is perfectly safe for the casing and keycaps. Then dunk the PCB+switches in a tub of distilled water and shake it around to clean everything out.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
The main thing is that the rice would just soak up a lot of the spill, and would have a good chance of making the board work again, while the water actually cleans the board.

I would suggest going to store and getting a gallon of the water, pouring half of it into a tub or something, slosh the board around in that, pour that water out, then soak the board in the rest for 10 mins, then let it dry overnight.

Make sure you don't use tap water, as that will leave behind minerals and could ruin the circuit board!

Oh, I can remember this. Thank you!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
If you want to be extra clean, and don't mind a bit of work, the dishwasher is perfectly safe for the casing and keycaps. Then dunk the PCB+switches in a tub of distilled water and shake it around to clean everything out.

Whoa. Thank you too!

But Tator Tot, I am still considering the uncooked rice as an option.


----------



## yann3804

How am I supposed to wash an old IBM Model M (1993), that is full of dust and crap?

Will the touch and tactile feel be better when washed?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

You need to take it apart, because simply washing it will let water into the membranes, and that will cause endless trouble and may ruin the board.

You need to order a thin-walled 5.5mm nut driver from Clickykeyboards. Then run the casing through the dishwasher, soak the keycaps in soapy water or isopropyl alcohol, and carefully clean the controller and _outside_ of the assembly with isopropyl alcohol. You do not want water getting inside the switches, because it will run down inside the assembly and cause short circuits in the membranes.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


You need to take it apart, because simply washing it will let water into the membranes, and that will cause endless trouble and may ruin the board.

You need to order a thin-walled 5.5mm nut driver from Clickykeyboards. Then run the casing through the dishwasher, soak the keycaps in soapy water or isopropyl alcohol, and carefully clean the controller and _outside_ of the assembly with isopropyl alcohol. You do not want water getting inside the switches, because it will run down inside the assembly and cause short circuits in the membranes.


What membranes?


----------



## TestECull

Anyone know where I can get my mitts on a Model M with a numpad that isn't eBay?


----------



## yann3804

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


You need to take it apart, because simply washing it will let water into the membranes, and that will cause endless trouble and may ruin the board.

You need to order a thin-walled 5.5mm nut driver from Clickykeyboards. Then run the casing through the dishwasher, soak the keycaps in soapy water or isopropyl alcohol, and carefully clean the controller and _outside_ of the assembly with isopropyl alcohol. You do not want water getting inside the switches, because it will run down inside the assembly and cause short circuits in the membranes.


Thank you.

Will the keyboard feeling be better after washing?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


What membranes?


The Model M is buckling springs over membranes. The membranes are sandwiched between two steel plates which is what gives the keyboard its durability, but it's still membrane-based. Read my HP SK-2505 dissection, I make a few comments on the comparison between it and a Model M.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yann3804*


Thank you.

Will the keyboard feeling be better after washing?


Hard to say. It will certainly feel better as in texture of the case and keycaps. But the springs are what give it its feel. Keep in mind that buckling springs wear out relatively fast compared to other mechanical switches (though the downright failure rate is lower than Alps switches). I can certainly feel the difference on mine, between the very heavily used alphanumerical section and the lighter used F and editing keys. The feel is still quite superb, but you can tell that it's lost some of its tactility.

Keep in mind folks that the Model M isn't necessarily the perfect keyboard. It's simply the "defining" mechanical keyboard and one of the best and oldest that is still compatible with modern computers without an adapter. The Model M is the end of a long series of cost reductions, from the beam spring switch keyboards used on 70's million dollar IBM mainframes, to the capacitive buckling springs of the Model F. The Model M set the standard for layout, and the build quality is superb, but it uses a relatively cheap membrane system, the switches are cheap and chaotic by nature, and the plastic rivets holding the plates together break over time causing the keyboard to lose its feel, and the plate/membrane system is non-serviceable unless you feel like doing a nuts and bolts mod. And starting the year after it was introduced the Model M was gradually cheapened, with slightly lighter plastics and the like.

It's *still* a superb keyboard. 1,000,000 awesome points minus 10,000 awesome points is still 990,000 awesome points. It's just not perfect, as some people get the impression it is.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

On suggesting that EliteKeyboards should import Ducky keyboards, Majestouch (company that owns Filco) rep replied:

Quote:



Hi Phaedrus,

On paper the Ducky boards do have some attractive features, but EK probably isn't the best candidate for distributing these boards due to *conflicts with existing products in our line-up.*



LOL

They know the competition's got them beat, so they don't want EK importing them.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


LOL
They know the competition's got them beat, so they don't want EK importing them.










Oh wow, haha.


----------



## lmnop

that was a complete waste of energy.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
On suggesting that EliteKeyboards should import Ducky keyboards, Majestouch (company that owns Filco) rep replied:

LOL

They know the competition's got them beat, so they don't want EK importing them.









EK is the sole distributor of Filco products in North America, right? Did you expect anything different?

That's like walking into a BMW Dealership and asking them to sell brand new Audis or Mercedes' ( Yes, I'm well aware they probably have used ones. That's why I said new ).

Good trolling though, 8/10.


----------



## lmnop

pretty much. imsto has expressed interested in the North American market.


----------



## Tator Tot

I keep reading EK and thinking EK Water Bocks.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I keep reading EK and thinking EK Water Bocks.


Yeah, same here. Takes my mind a second to click.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Anyone want AT101's. lol
http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-4-DELL-VINTA...ht_1923wt_1165

Or this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/DELL-VINTAGE-MOD...ht_1522wt_1165

Or this black one
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-AT101W-Blac...ht_1395wt_1165

**Cough. . . Maytan, look. Not rubber domers. . . Cough***









Let me know if you are going to bid on anything, so I don't. I'm thinking about the buy-it-now on the white one in the second link. lol


----------



## Maytan

^WOW, four of them for the price of one? 'tis a shame I have no use for four.







At any rate, I'd reaaally like that black one. It just looks like it's a little worse for wear. I think I might ask the seller for some extra pics via email or something.


----------



## Maytan

Just curious. Cheapest place to find a Model S Silent is $135 shipped directly from Das' store, correct?


----------



## lmnop

yes


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


yes


Kay, thanks.


----------



## nijikon5

Damn you Christine, thinking about selling my 7G and buying a Deck.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Damn you Christine, thinking about selling my 7G and buying a Deck.


Sounds like a good idea to me







.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Sounds like a good idea to me







.


Damn you too, Crazy!

Will post pics if I get -.-.


----------



## Manyak

In case anyone cares, I added a bunch of stuff to the guide today. I added a bunch of new keyboards, and some links to the resources section.


----------



## lmnop

nice. where have you been? been hanging out with the cheap substitute Maytan


----------



## fssbzz

i just got my DAS professional keyboard.
i LOVE it so much.
it is blue switches. and it works great on gaming too!

Edit: just to say million thanks to *Christine(Imnop), Manyak for the awesome guide, Phaedrus2129, Crazy9000 & and more who had help me in this section.*









i love overclock.net so much


----------



## lmnop

glad you are happy with it.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
nice. where have you been? been hanging out with the cheap substitute Maytan









I've just been real busy lately, haven't had much time to sit and write out nice, long posts. Twocables has got that covered anyway









Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
i just got my DAS professional keyboard.
i LOVE it so much.
it is blue switches. and it works great on gaming too!

Edit: just to say million thanks to *Christine(Imnop), Manyak for the awesome guide, Phaedrus2129, Crazy9000 & and more who had help me in this section.*









i love overclock.net so much









Glad you like it


----------



## Manyak

So....now with my PC having two separate monitor setups, I've decided I'm going to get a Deck for the 'gaming' side, and switch out the springs with ones from Browns.

Now I just gotta figure out what color backlighting to get, lol. I'm thinking red but I dunno, it might be too distracting. Or maybe I'll get an 82 key model. Hrm..


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Now I just gotta figure out what color backlighting to get, lol. I'm thinking red but I dunno, it might be too distracting. Or maybe I'll get an 82 key model. Hrm..









Personally, I think green would be the least distracting.

I'm thinking blue would be the most distracting, though. There was an article I read awhile back about how looking at blue for a long time makes your brain think it's daytime out, and effects your sleeping ability. (I have no idea how credible it was, just something I remember reading.)


----------



## ljason8eg

I personally think red backlighting is distracting and sort of "hostile" looking. Blue is much more pleasing, though a dim white wouldn't be bad either.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Personally, I think green would be the least distracting.

I'm thinking blue would be the most distracting, though. There was an article I read awhile back about how looking at blue for a long time makes your brain think it's daytime out, and effects your sleeping ability. (I have no idea how credible it was, just something I remember reading.)

That's....odd lol.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ljason8eg* 
I personally think red backlighting is distracting and sort of "hostile" looking. Blue is much more pleasing, though a dim white wouldn't be bad either.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Plus the font doesn't look so bad with a white backlight. But I wanna get it with Cherry Blacks, not Clears


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
So....now with my PC having two separate monitor setups, I've decided I'm going to get a Deck for the 'gaming' side, and switch out the springs with ones from Browns.

Now I just gotta figure out what color backlighting to get, lol. I'm thinking red but I dunno, it might be too distracting. Or maybe I'll get an 82 key model. Hrm..









this was brought up a while ago on the Deck Forums. Red is the most visible, there is a reason why cockpits light up Red.

the Deck 82 Toxic and Fire were discontinued because they had a USB HID 6+4 rollover with blocking, the Deck 82 Ice does not have this problem it's USB HID 6+4.


----------



## Crazy9000

The red is not very bright, you pretty much can't see it when it's light in the room. I think all the others are much more distracting, since they are brighter. My brother has either green or yellow (sry i'm colorblind







), and it's easily visible in the light.

Also red light is better for your eyes when it's dark.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *manyak* 
so....now with my pc having two separate monitor setups, i've decided i'm going to get a deck for the 'gaming' side, and switch out the springs with ones from browns.

Now i just gotta figure out what color backlighting to get, lol. I'm thinking red but i dunno, it might be too distracting. Or maybe i'll get an 82 key model. Hrm..









82!!!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
this was brought up a while ago on the Deck Forums. Red is the most visible, there is a reason why cockpits light up Red.

the Deck 82 Toxic and Fire were discontinued because they had a USB HID 6+4 rollover with blocking, the Deck 82 Ice does not have this problem it's USB HID 6+4.

Ah, so THAT's where they went.

I'm leaning more towards the Legend though, because of the extra room for modding. I'm definitely going to integrate a USB hub and pass-through audio ports, and possibly some control for the LEDs themselves.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Ah, so THAT's where they went.

I'm leaning more towards the Legend though, because of the extra room for modding. I'm definitely going to integrate a USB hub and pass-through audio ports, and possibly some control for the LEDs themselves.


here is some more info. the keycaps are manufactured by Signature Plastics and Deck used to sell 105 blanks and 82 blanks for $25 and $20.









Deck feet raise the keyboard 2" like the IBM Model M. Costar feet raise the keyboard 1.5"


----------



## Manyak

Yeah I remember when they used to sell blanks. They used to sell a whole bunch of different keycaps, like the linux penguin, some chick leaning backwards, and WASD with arrows, and whatever.


----------



## Maytan

That lighting scheme is actually beautiful, and as you know I'm not a big fan of LEDs. I wish I had the time/money to color coordinate my set-up like that.


----------



## clownfart

Yay, I finally got my Geekhack key!


----------



## Maytan

^You bought that leather rest? That thing was expensive! I'm jealous, though. It looks really comfy.


----------



## lmnop

3M has a wrist rest similar to the Filco made out of silicone, leather and a base plate it comes in large, extra large and cost under $15 at many online retailers. Behemoth bought one for his Das and said it was comfortable.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
3M has a wrist rest similar to the Filco made out of silicone, leather and a base plate it comes in large, extra large and cost under $15 at many online retailers. Behemoth bought one for his Das and said it was comfortable.

I might have to pick one up, then. (how can you go wrong for $15?)

But wow, the glossy shine of the Das looks amazing.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I might have to pick one up, then. (how can you go wrong for $15?)

But wow, the glossy shine of the Das looks amazing.

I think Behemoth mentioned he paid $8 for it. it's hard to come by good Das pictures. he took a good one.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I might have to pick one up, then. (how can you go wrong for $15?)

But wow, the glossy shine of the Das looks amazing.

i just got my DAS keyboard ysterday,try it out.
i really really love it







.
planning to buy for my mom to use it for her accounting job.

i will take some pic now







show u some


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I think Behemoth mentioned he paid $8 for it. it's hard to come by good Das pictures. he took a good one.

Good one indeed.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
i just got my DAS keyboard ysterday,try it out.
i really really love it







.
planning to buy for my mom to use it for her accounting job.

i will take some pic now







show u some









Yeah, I'd love to see some more.

Glad you're enjoying it, too.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Good one indeed.

Yeah, I'd love to see some more.

Glad you're enjoying it, too.

here.







hope it helps


----------



## Maytan

It's... amazing. I need to find work with better pay. ):


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


In case anyone cares, I added a bunch of stuff to the guide today. I added a bunch of new keyboards, and some links to the resources section.


Nice!

By the way, if you need anyone to help you update it, I have absolutely nothing but time on my hands.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I've just been real busy lately, haven't had much time to sit and write out nice, long posts. Twocables has got that covered anyway










Yep! Now if only I had both some experience to draw from, and some expertise!


----------



## Maytan

Hmm, I need the 'normal' sized version of that wrist-rest. I don't want it to protrude onto my Talent. (which is what I use to rest the wrist I used for me mouse.)

Did this Behemoth person happen to mention where he bought from?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Hmm, I need the 'normal' sized version of that wrist-rest. I don't want it to protrude onto my Talent. (which is what I use to rest the wrist I used for me mouse.)

Did this Behemoth person happen to mention where he bought from?


no. they are widely available at online retailers.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...t+rest&x=0&y=0


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


no. they are widely available at online retailers.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...t+rest&x=0&y=0


I looked around a ton of places, and couldn't find the correct size for </=$15.

EDIT: Guess $19~ will have to do.


----------



## lmnop

go to 3M website and look for the size and google the product number.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I may have found some NIB Cherry keyboards for a ridiculous price. I'll let you know after I nab mine.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


go to 3M website and look for the size and google the product number.


I did. :\\

The large is 19", product number W310LE I believe. I'm not positive what size the compact would be, but I'm willing to be it'd be too small. It's only a few dollars extra, but it still bothers me a bit. $1/inch. <_<

EDIT: Forget that, it's $19+tax. (I'm in New York) Which means roughly $21 just for the rest....


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I may have found some NIB Cherry keyboards for a ridiculous price. I'll let you know after I nab mine.










I would have bought one, but I just dropped $200 on a new monitor.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
I would have bought one, but I just dropped $200 on a new monitor.

Would you be interested if I said it was $35?

Cherry G80-8200LPDUS. That's a POS keyboard with card reader and programmable keys, lasered keycaps, MX black switches, PS/2 connection, and a US layout.

These retail for $230: http://www.provantage.com/cherry-ele...s~7CHER0E1.htm
And go used for $50+

This is *$35 SHIPPED NIB*
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-CHERRY-BEIGE...item483a87496a

gogogogogogo


----------



## lmnop

to much. maybe if it had double shot keycaps.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

That's the problem with you guys, you listen to the folks at Geekhack who seem to go by, "If it isn't a non-Cherry name brand board (like Das or Filco) or a particularly rare board, and doesn't have double shots, it isn't worth more than $10." That's stupid.

It's a keyboard with MX black switches being sold NIB for about 1/7 its retail price, and that's too much? You're insane.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
That's the problem with you guys, you listen to the folks at Geekhack who seem to go by, "If it isn't a non-Cherry name brand board (like Das or Filco) or a particularly rare board, and doesn't have double shots, it isn't worth more than $10." That's stupid.

It's a keyboard with MX black switches being sold NIB for about 1/7 its retail price, and that's too much? You're insane.

How about this monitor for $200 bucks? lol. If I didn't buy that I was insane.
http://www.shopping.hp.com/product/d...T195AA%2523ABA

Now I have no monies left to buy keyboard, and I'm still insane









Oh Noes


----------



## lmnop

G80-8200HPDUS-2 is a good keyboard. Black, Cherry MX Browns, Full Rollover, Double Shot Keycaps, US Layout and you can get it for the same price that is all i'm saying.

you can't even harvest from the G80-8200LPDUS because the keycaps are not even white they are beige!


----------



## Phaedrus2129

That *is* a pretty nice monitor, though I would have gotten one in 1920x1200.

But I was calling Christine insane, not you.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
G80-8200HPDUS-2 is a good keyboard. Black, Cherry MX Browns, Full Rollover, Double Shot Keycaps, US Layout and you can get it for the same price that is all i'm saying.

you can't even harvest from the G80-8200LPDUS because the keycaps are not even white they are beige!

I've never seen the HPDUS-2 for less than $60 shipped on eBay, and that one in heavily used condition. Most sellers know what they have and price accordingly, maybe you could find those for $35 back in the day, but not now.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I've never seen the HPDUS-2 for less than $60 shipped on eBay, and that one in heavily used condition. Most sellers know what they have and price accordingly, maybe you could find those for $35 back in the day, but not now.

I seen a couple last year for $30-50 sometimes even less. the G80 were in high circulation last year now it doesn't seem to be the case


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I seen a couple last year for $30-50 sometimes even less. the G80 were in high circulation last year now it doesn't seem to be the case









Yup, everyone who wanted one has one, they're nice enough people won't sell them, and the sellers caught on and raised the price on the ones that are left.

For those of us who have gotten into mechanicals in the last year or months, this is an amazing deal until something better comes along. This will be my first NIB mechanical keyboard, and my first MX black keyboard. I'm looking forward to it.

Plus it has more macro keys than a G19.









Cheapest double-shot G80 on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/REFURBISHED-CHER...item439cc17a8f
$55+shipping obo, and I doubt the seller would accept less than $45+shipping. Plus it's refurbished.


----------



## clownfart

$40 to ship to Canada, plus it's a POS. D:


----------



## lmnop

you make it sound like they have meetings and are out to get us.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
you make it sound like they have meetings and are out to get us.

You make it sound like they don't.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
you make it sound like they have meetings and are out to get us.

They are! It's all a part of... THE CONSPIRACY


----------



## clownfart

Ew and it has evil windows dome keys.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clownfart* 
Ew and it has evil windows dome keys.

That's a stock photo of a G80-8200. You can tell because that's an ISO layout, while the model # is that of a US (ANSI) layout.


----------



## clownfart

I call them cancer lumps.


----------



## lmnop

this is the one I was talking about.


----------



## Maytan

^Why do some of the keys have covers on them?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
^Why do some of the keys have covers on them?

Those are the reprogrammable keys, you can stick labels under those.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Those are the reprogrammable keys, you can stick labels under those.

Haha, really makes you wonder why there aren't companies with creativity like that anymore.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Cherry? Creativity?









I'm sorry, do you have trouble with English?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Cherry? Creativity?









I'm sorry, do you have trouble with English?









Well, I thought the idea of custom labels seemed creative... Hehe...


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I think Cherry was creative back in the day, now their idea of creativity is to copy Apple, hence their new god-awful chiclet keyboards.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I think Cherry was creative back in the day, now their idea of creativity is to copy Apple, hence their new god-awful chiclet keyboards.


Oh, I see. Don't tell me they spaced the keys like Apple's.. Those things are way too far apart IMO.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


^Why do some of the keys have covers on them?


they are called relegendable keys. if you have a printer you can print out labels or icons and place them on top of the keycap, put the cover on top then program the key to do a function. relegendable keys are usually found on POS keyboards like cashiers.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


they are called relegendable keys. if you have a printer you can print out labels or icons and place them on top of the keycap, put the cover on top then program the key to do a function. relegendable keys are usually found on POS keyboards like cashiers.


Relegendable eh? Never heard that word before...


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Relegendable eh? Never heard that word before...












a legend is what they call the top of the keycap where the character is printed.

re-legendable.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Ricercar claims that all G80-8200 boards have NKRO. In which case...

MX blacks, NKRO, PS/2, and a bunch of reprogrammable keys... That's perfect for gaming! All it needs is some RIT dye and black paint.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


*snip*

a legend is what they call the top of the keycap where the character is printed.

re-legendable.


Oh, hehe. This is all news to me.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Ricercar claims that all G80-8200 boards have NKRO. In which case...

MX blacks, NKRO, PS/2, and a bunch of reprogrammable keys... That's perfect for gaming! All it needs is some RIT dye and black paint.










Yeah, it does sound pretty sweet. I'd pick it up if I were even half way confident I could paint it without ruining it. But that color is just a huge turn-off for me.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


How about this monitor for $200 bucks? lol. If I didn't buy that I was insane.
http://www.shopping.hp.com/product/d...T195AA%2523ABA

Now I have no monies left to buy keyboard, and I'm still insane









Oh Noes











I think you're insane for BUYING it. Look at what you could have gotten for the same price (well, with an extra $100 shipping).

I really don't see any LCD being worth over $100 unless it's an IPS panel. TN panels just look horrible. And the dot pitch on that one, specifically, is huge.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I think you're insane for BUYING it. Look at what you could have gotten for the same price (well, with an extra $100 shipping).

I really don't see any LCD being worth over $100 unless it's an IPS panel. TN panels just look horrible.


agreed!

if you guys are interested in CRT monitors this place has Trinitron and Diamondtron tubes with good shipping options. click Monitors -> CRT Monitors.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I really don't see any LCD being worth over $100 unless it's an IPS panel. TN panels just look horrible. And the dot pitch on that one, specifically, is huge.


I also agree, but I'd be willing to pay up to $150~ for a TN. If I had to.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I also agree, but I'd be willing to pay up to $150~ for a TN. If I had to.


But that last part is the key: *If you HAD to.*


----------



## W4LNUT5

I get headaches with CRT's for some reason. And I don't have a desk that could hold that beast anyways (the weight, or the extra space to spare)

(Near-sighted in left eye, Far-sighted in right eye. Not sure if that has anything to do with it, but that's my guess)


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
I get headaches with CRT's for some reason. And I don't have a desk that could hold that beast anyways (the weight, or the extra space to spare)

(Near-sighted in left eye, Far-sighted in right eye. Not sure if that has anything to do with it, but that's my guess)

Funny, I have the same problems with my eyes. (and CRTs also give me headaches with extensive use)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
I get headaches with CRT's for some reason. And I don't have a desk that could hold that beast anyways (the weight, or the extra space to spare)

(Near-sighted in left eye, Far-sighted in right eye. Not sure if that has anything to do with it, but that's my guess)


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Funny, I have the same problems with my eyes. (and CRTs also give me headaches with extensive use)

Do you guys both get headaches with CRTs even if you're using a Refresh Rate of no less than 85Hz?

Also, having your eyeballs 2 feet away or less from a CRT is another headache-generator.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
But that last part is the key: *If you HAD to.*

I spent $300 on two 24" 1920x1200 TN's last year. I picked them up for my Brother and I'm definitely have no regrets in it.

TN's are not bad for the average user. Or even for most PC Gamers. But if you have the money, you should always consider a superior quality product unless you absolutely need multiple monitors.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Do you guys both get headaches with CRTs even if you're using a Refresh Rate of no less than 85Hz?

Also, having your eyeballs 2 feet away or less from a CRT is another headache-generator.









I always max that refresh rate out. I'm not sure what the last crt I had was at, but I know I kept it maxed.

And I'm one of those guys who reclines way back in my chair while I'm at the computer. Monitor is always at least that far away.

Part of my problem is that I don't wear my glasses. But I get less eye strain from LCD's with or without my glasses. I don't know why. All I know is I don't feel like migrane-death every time I'm at my computer now. lol

Edit: Keyboard related

Go Represent
http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ml#post9348274


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


I always max that refresh rate out. I'm not sure what the last crt I had was at, but I know I kept it maxed.

And I'm one of those guys who reclines way back in my chair while I'm at the computer. Monitor is always at least that far away.

Part of my problem is that I don't wear my glasses. But I get less eye strain from LCD's with or without my glasses. I don't know why. All I know is I don't feel like migrane-death every time I'm at my computer now. lol


Do you mean your eyes are always at least 2 feet away?

Anyway, the technical reason why LCDs don't cause eyestrain like CRTs do is because CRTs are very much like fluorescent bulbs in that they are constantly flickering. This is why using a higher Refresh Rate is easier on the eyes. But LCDs are very much like incandescent light bulbs in that they just glow. So, it's like the difference between staring at a bright fluorescent light from 2-3 feet away and staring at an incandescent.

But LCDs can still cause eyestrain due to the fact that the eyes are focused on the same object for an extended time. Of course, setting the LCD's brightness too high will also increase eyestrain - *especially in the dark*. I have tried using my computer in the dark, but it is much harder on my eyes, so I just leave the lights on. That's how I can last 12-18 hours on my computer every single day.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Edit: Keyboard related

Go Represent
http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ml#post9348274


Finally! A place to show why mechanical keyboards can be far superior to those damn common rubber dome boards! w00t!


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


TN's are not bad for the average user. Or even for most PC Gamers.


My problem with TN's is the fact that they color shift even when looking directly at them. (you aren't viewing the entire screen straight-on, hence solid colors become gradients)

But this isn't a monitor thread.









@TwoCables
I only have 60Hz CRTs, but I was using it around 3-4 feet away.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


My problem with TN's is the fact that they color shift even when looking directly at them. (you aren't viewing the entire screen straight-on, hence solid colors become gradients)

But this isn't a monitor thread.









@TwoCables
I only have 60Hz CRTs, but I was using it around 3-4 feet away.


But even 5 feet away, it's still 60Hz. Y'know what I mean? 60Hz is 60Hz.

What I failed to say properly was that when using a high Refresh Rate of like 85Hz or higher, it's best to have your eyes at least 3 feet away from the face of the monitor.

I think I'm still failing to say what I'm trying to say, but I think I'm getting closer.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


TE QUICK BROWN FOX JUP OVER TE LAZY DOG

Laptop keyboard on Acer Aspire 5740

I'd say I'm doing well only missing 2 keys


I'd say my keyboard did well in that test. Even though it's got crappy chicklets, it seems like it doesn't do to bad.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Do you guys both get headaches with CRTs even if you're using a Refresh Rate of no less than 85Hz?

Also, having your eyeballs 2 feet away or less from a CRT is another headache-generator.










I don't have a problem at 60hz.

But the whole "YOU NEEDZ 85Hz!" thing is actually not true. It just depends on the refresh-rate of your lighting. Which the lights in my room happen to flicker at 50Hz

I know the 50Hz number because I can adjust my webcam from 30-60hz and you can see flicker all the way up to 51hz


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I'd say my keyboard did well in that test. Even though it's got crappy chicklets, it seems like it doesn't do to bad.

I don't have a problem at 60hz.

But the whole "YOU NEEDZ 85Hz!" thing is actually not true. It just depends on the refresh-rate of your lighting. Which the lights in my room happen to flicker at 50Hz

I know the 50Hz number because I can adjust my webcam from 30-60hz and you can see flicker all the way up to 51hz


Back in the day when I had a CRT in a room that was always lit by nothing but incandescent bulbs and sunlight, I still needed at least 75 or 85Hz or better because anything less was hard on my eyes and always gave me a headache. But I could last *much* longer when using 85Hz or 100Hz with that monitor.

The monitor was the ViewSonic p95f+, which was a high-end 19" flatscreen CRT. When using 1280x1024, I could get 100Hz out of it, and with 1600x1200 the maximum was 85Hz. Both refresh rates allowed me to last a very, very long time without a break (but nowhere near as long as I can last with my LCD monitor).

So I guess I am saying that I can only speak from my experience and my experience is that I needed at _LEAST_ 75Hz, but I had a strong preference for 85Hz and above for every single CRT I was using in those days (school, work, home).


----------



## Phaedrus2129

*coughkeyboardthreadcough*


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Back in the day when I had a CRT in a room that was always lit by nothing but incandescent bulbs and sunlight, I still needed at least 75 or 85Hz or better because anything less was hard on my eyes and always gave me a headache. But I could last *much* longer when using 85Hz or 100Hz with that monitor.

The monitor was the ViewSonic p95f+, which was a high-end 19" flatscreen CRT. When using 1280x1024, I could get 100Hz out of it, and with 1600x1200 the maximum was 85Hz. Both refresh rates allowed me to last a very, very long time without a break (but nowhere near as long as I can last with my LCD monitor).

So I guess I am saying that I can only speak from my experience and my experience is that I needed at _LEAST_ 75Hz, but I had a strong preference for 85Hz and above for every single CRT I was using in those days (school, work, home).


That might deal with other factors. 
IE: the light produced from a CRT. 
Most people don't consider this, but your eyes can be photosentistive.

I know for a fact, my right eye is photosensitive. And I can hardly have my eye open while outside because it gives me massive headaches.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


*coughkeyboardthreadcough*


This is nothin': the CM 690 Club thread goes off-topic every single day.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But even 5 feet away, it's still 60Hz. Y'know what I mean? 60Hz is 60Hz.

What I failed to say properly was that when using a high Refresh Rate of like 85Hz or higher, it's best to have your eyes at least 3 feet away from the face of the monitor.

I think I'm still failing to say what I'm trying to say, but I think I'm getting closer.


Yeah, I understand what you're saying. (I think)

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


*coughkeyboardthreadcough*


Whoopsy..


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Yeah, I understand what you're saying. (I think


I think what I'm saying is that when talking about 60Hz, the distance seems to make no difference (it does, but even sitting 6 feet away can be like 2 feet with like 85Hz or 100Hz). But when using higher Refresh Rates, the distance can make much more of a difference since it's a little bit more like a glowing LCD screen at higher Refresh Rates.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I think what I'm saying is that when talking about 60Hz, the distance seems to make no difference (it does, but even sitting 6 feet away can be like 2 feet with like 85Hz or 100Hz). But when using higher Refresh Rates, the distance can make much more of a difference since it's a little bit more like a glowing LCD screen at higher Refresh Rates.


Yeah, I knew the refresh was the refresh rate. (regardless of distance) I didn't know that a higher refresh can actually shift some importance over to distance, however.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Yeah, I knew the refresh was the refresh rate. (regardless of distance) I didn't know that a higher refresh can actually shift some importance over to distance, however.


Well, for me it was kinda pointless to worry about the distance when 60Hz is already pretty harsh.


----------



## Chaos Assasson

how good is the Alps ASK6600 and is it work $60


----------



## clownfart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chaos Assasson*


how good is the Alps ASK6600 and is it work $60


I hope it is work for $60.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chaos Assasson*


how good is the Alps ASK6600 and is it work $60


You can get it for $50 here
http://www.notestation.com/fullsizea...rdask-6600.htm

Don't know more about it though.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chaos Assasson*


how good is the Alps ASK6600 and is it work $60


It _*might*_ be worth $60, but I don't know yet. However, here's a keyboard that has the Cherry MX Blues, claims to have full NKRO, USB ports, microphone and headphone jacks and it has a price of $70.74:

http://www.provantage.com/adesso-mkb-135b~7ADES09P.htm

I pulled this from here:

http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...-keyboard.html


----------



## lmnop

Solidtek/DSI 6600 is similar to the ABS M1 it uses plate mounted Simplified Alps in Black (***kas), standard matrix and pad printed keycaps.

since it has a small backspace and a retail price of $59.99 the ABS M1 is probably a better choice.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

I found another keyboard that I could actually like:

http://www.cherry.de/english/product...a_Keyboard.htm













I cannot find any info on if it's dome or mechanical, and NOBODY on this side of the Atlantic sells it from what I can tell. Anyone know anything about it?







Because if it's anything close to how good the G80s/G83s are, then I might actually want it with a US layout. The guy in the video says you can pick it up for Â£27.99, which gives some suspicion that it's not mechanical... but I wanted to know.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


I found another keyboard that I could actually like:

http://www.cherry.de/english/product...a_Keyboard.htm






I cannot find any info on if it's dome or mechanical, and NOBODY on this side of the Atlantic sells it from what I can tell. Anyone know anything about it?







Because if it's anything close to how good the G80s/G83s are, then I might actually want it with a US layout. The guy in the video says you can pick it up for Â£27.99, which gives some suspicion that it's not mechanical... but I wanted to know.


When I see "Service life, standard key: > 10 million key operations ", it tells me that this might have Scissor Switches. Plus, he really likes the way the keys feel, so it has to be a decent Scissor board!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I spent $300 on two 24" 1920x1200 TN's last year. I picked them up for my Brother and I'm definitely have no regrets in it.

TN's are not bad for the average user. Or even for most PC Gamers. But if you have the money, you should always consider a superior quality product unless you absolutely need multiple monitors.


But you paid just $150 per LCD. That's still acceptable. But there are SO many people buying TN panels for like, $300-$500 each, and it's ridiculous. I don't care how fast their GTG response time is, it still looks like crap and ghosts and blurs with motion.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Do you mean your eyes are always at least 2 feet away?

Anyway, the technical reason why LCDs don't cause eyestrain like CRTs do is because CRTs are very much like fluorescent bulbs in that they are constantly flickering. This is why using a higher Refresh Rate is easier on the eyes. But LCDs are very much like incandescent light bulbs in that they just glow. So, it's like the difference between staring at a bright fluorescent light from 2-3 feet away and staring at an incandescent.

But LCDs can still cause eyestrain due to the fact that the eyes are focused on the same object for an extended time. Of course, setting the LCD's brightness too high will also increase eyestrain - *especially in the dark*. I have tried using my computer in the dark, but it is much harder on my eyes, so I just leave the lights on. That's how I can last 12-18 hours on my computer every single day.










Incandescent light bulbs also flicker at 50Hz or 60Hz (whatever the frequency of the electricity is).

LCDs cause more eyestrain than CRTs for me because of the stupid blurring/ghosting. With most desktop use it's fine because the only thing really blurring is the mouse. But it's hard for me to play a game on one for too long.

There's also the phosphor decay to think about when talking about CRTs. That is, how long it takes them to release all their energy and turn off again after being hit by the gun. Many CRTs have been made - most of them TVs - where the phosphor decay matches up perfectly with the refresh rate, so that each phosphor only turns black the instant before it's hit again. This reduces eye strain a lot.

Another cause of CRT eye strain is improper convergence and focus. The blurry image you get when either of these are out of whack makes your brain keep trying to focus your eyes to make the image clearer. This effect gets more pronounced depending on how much of your visible area the screen is taking up (such as with a large screen, or if you're sitting really close to it). If the picture on your screen isn't perfectly sharp then you need to adjust these. If adjusting them still doesn't fix it, then it mostly likely means that you're running at a resolution greater than what the shadow mask or aperture grille can handle (resolution > number of subpixel triplets) - which is very common on CRTs.

Also, just running at a higher refresh rate isn't always a good idea. Each CRT has it's own optimal refresh rate at each resolution, which is based on the accuracy of it's electronics. Take the GDM-FW900 for example: at 1920x1200, it can go up to 98Hz. However, at 98Hz the picture isn't as good as when it's at 85Hz. So this is the refresh rate you should be running it at.


----------



## Chaos Assasson

hey Phaedrus2129 when are you going to get that Cherry G80-8200LPDUS and are you going to review it for us


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chaos Assasson* 
hey Phaedrus2129 when are you going to get that Cherry G80-8200LPDUS and are you going to review it for us

It's in the mail, should be here some time next week.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


But you paid just $150 per LCD. That's still acceptable. But there are SO many people buying TN panels for like, $300-$500 each, and it's ridiculous. I don't care how fast their GTG response time is, it still looks like crap and ghosts and blurs with motion


Oh definitely.

I basically look at it like this:
$100-175 = TN price
$150-$250 = S-PVA Price
$200+ = Grab an IPS panel of some type.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Incandescent light bulbs also flicker at 50Hz or 60Hz (whatever the frequency of the electricity is).

LCDs cause more eyestrain than CRTs for me because of the stupid blurring/ghosting. With most desktop use it's fine because the only thing really blurring is the mouse. But it's hard for me to play a game on one for too long.

There's also the phosphor decay to think about when talking about CRTs. That is, how long it takes them to release all their energy and turn off again after being hit by the gun. Many CRTs have been made - most of them TVs - where the phosphor decay matches up perfectly with the refresh rate, so that each phosphor only turns black the instant before it's hit again. This reduces eye strain a lot.

Another cause of CRT eye strain is improper convergence and focus. The blurry image you get when either of these are out of whack makes your brain keep trying to focus your eyes to make the image clearer. This effect gets more pronounced depending on how much of your visible area the screen is taking up (such as with a large screen, or if you're sitting really close to it). If the picture on your screen isn't perfectly sharp then you need to adjust these. If adjusting them still doesn't fix it, then it mostly likely means that you're running at a resolution greater than what the shadow mask or aperture grille can handle (resolution > number of subpixel triplets) - which is very common on CRTs.

Also, just running at a higher refresh rate isn't always a good idea. Each CRT has it's own optimal refresh rate at each resolution, which is based on the accuracy of it's electronics. Take the GDM-FW900 for example: at 1920x1200, it can go up to 98Hz. However, at 98Hz the picture isn't as good as when it's at 85Hz. So this is the refresh rate you should be running it at.


Interesting information. I never really notice ghosting. That's just me, though.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Oh definitely.

I basically look at it like this:
$100-175 = TN price
$150-$250 = S-PVA Price
$200+ = Grab an IPS panel of some type.


S-PVA is more expensive than that. Or at least I thought it (usually) is. I'm probably wrong.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


S-PVA is more expensive than that. Or at least I thought it (usually) is. I'm probably wrong.


You just need to shop around.

Newegg's Selection on monitors is terrible as they don't carry ANY dell Models, and only a select number of HP Models.

And those guys have some of the largest selection of monitors. Not always the best, but the prices on them are not bad. Especially when iether runs a deal.


----------



## nijikon5

Somehow, having 3KRO = having full NKRO. Over 9000 Logitech owners feel like gods.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


You just need to shop around.

Newegg's Selection on monitors is terrible as they don't carry ANY dell Models, and only a select number of HP Models.

And those guys have some of the largest selection of monitors. Not always the best, but the prices on them are not bad. Especially when iether runs a deal.


Yeah, I don't even shop for monitors on Newegg. I bought my ZR22W from Cost Central cause they had it for $275 shipped.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Somehow, having 3KRO = having full NKRO. Over 9000 Logitech owners feel like gods.


Haha, I was thinking the same thing.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Oh definitely.

I basically look at it like this:
$100-175 = TN price
$150-$250 = S-PVA Price
$200+ = Grab an IPS panel of some type.

That's a good way to put it. For me personally though, it's either go all out with an IPS or get the cheapest possible.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Interesting information. I never really notice ghosting. That's just me, though.

I've been so accustomed to CRTs and plasma TVs that I notice ghosting on even the fastest LCDs.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
You just need to shop around.

Newegg's Selection on monitors is terrible as they don't carry ANY dell Models, and only a select number of HP Models.

And those guys have some of the largest selection of monitors. Not always the best, but the prices on them are not bad. Especially when iether runs a deal.

Yeah don't just use newegg. Shop through the manufacturer's websites directly. Dell, for example, now has IPS panels all the way down to 21" @ $200 (it's only an e-IPS, but still much better than TN).


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
I've been so accustomed to CRTs and plasma TVs that I notice ghosting on even the fastest LCDs.

So it's a trained eye sort of thing? Hehe. I haven't used CRTs extensively in years, that's probably why I don't notice ghosting.

EDIT: YESSSSSSS! I made $40 today. Combined with the $80 I made last week, I think I'm going to buy a Das Silent.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I really have no idea what people are talking about when they say ghosting... But I've been using TN panels for about five years, so...

And my only CRT is a ****ty Samton 15" POS that was cheap even back in the day.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
That's a good way to put it. For me personally though, it's either go all out with an IPS or get the cheapest possible.

It's the same for me. I will only get IPS Panels.

Though, I just use that general rule for when I'm doing builds for other people or suggesting parts.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Yeah don't just use newegg. Shop through the manufacturer's websites directly. Dell, for example, now has IPS panels all the way down to 21" @ $200 (it's only an e-IPS, but still much better than TN).

Yeah, e-IPS is really turning things around. It's cheap, easy to make, and not stuck to one company (like PVA tech)


----------



## Phaedrus2129

More G80-8200s on sale: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_3789wt_1139

7 available this time instead of 3.

I'll let you guys know how I like it when mine arrives.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I really have no idea what people are talking about when they say ghosting... But I've been using TN panels for about five years, so...

And my only CRT is a ****ty Samton 15" POS that was cheap even back in the day.

Ghosting is basically when the pixels take too long the change color. It results in a sort-of 'trailing' behind the moving image. Unless you have a monitor with a reaaaaaally slow response time, it's not that bad. (of course, it depends on what color to color change the response time was measured in.)


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Hm, here's what I'm using:

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-205BW-.../dp/B000GSM4N2


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Yeah, e-IPS is really turning things around. It's cheap, easy to make, and not stuck to one company (like PVA tech)


Yeah, e-IPS panels make for good screens without jacking the price up too much. Still doesn't look as good as an S-IPS, or better yet, an H-IPS.

The only thing I don't like with S-IPS panels is the glittery effect they have. Almost like DLP TVs, just without the rainbowing. Though that's just a minor inconvenience for the picture quality you get, at least unless they start making good CRTs again.

Just think of the picture quality we'd have right now if they put all the funding from LCD research from the past couple of years into CRT research.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


More G80-8200s on sale: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_3789wt_1139

7 available this time instead of 3.

I'll let you guys know how I like it when mine arrives.


I want to buy one of those, it's just that dang Credit Card swiper that kills it for me. Sooooooooooooooo tacky.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


I want to buy one of those, it's just that dang Credit Card swiper that kills it for me. Sooooooooooooooo tacky.


The cool thing with the card swiper is that you can use any card with a magnetic strip for any password - windows, BIOS, websites, anything. Swiping a card simply outputs text, so you can use it wherever.


----------



## Chaos Assasson

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


More G80-8200s on sale: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_3789wt_1139

7 available this time instead of 3.

I'll let you guys know how I like it when mine arrives.


im kind of waiting for you to review it( and waiting till the money i won in the Chimps Challenge comes through) to buy it


----------



## TwoCables

Manyak:

I noticed the ghosting the first time I scrolled in Firefox with my LCD: it bothered me quite a bit. But I think I'm used to it now because even though I still notice it from time to time, it doesn't bother me at all. But still, I kinda miss the image quality of my CRT - but I most certainly do not miss how large it is.

So I need to make sure that my next LCD panel is like my mechanical keyboard: elite.

I am just saying that I know how you feel.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
Somehow, having 3KRO = having full NKRO. Over 9000 Logitech owners feel like gods.

Yeah, that thread makes me sad.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Yeah, e-IPS panels make for good screens without jacking the price up too much. Still doesn't look as good as an S-IPS, or better yet, an H-IPS.

The only thing I don't like with S-IPS panels is the glittery effect they have. Almost like DLP TVs, just without the rainbowing. Though that's just a minor inconvenience for the picture quality you get, at least unless they start making good CRTs again.

Just think of the picture quality we'd have right now if they put all the funding from LCD research from the past couple of years into CRT research.

If they spent the money on CRT research....







but size would be a huge thing to tackle.

For TV's it wouldn't matter so much. But size is still a huge problem to get over for computers.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


If they spent the money on CRT research....







but size would be a huge thing to tackle.

For TV's it wouldn't matter so much. But size is still a huge problem to get over for computers.


It could actually be overcome. I don't have the link offhand, and I forget what the name they gave the technology is, but Canon and a few other companies were working on a CRT technology where instead of using a single gun that scanned the image they were going to split it up into one gun per every square inch (or something like that).

Also, if you look at more modern CRTs versus the older ones, you'll find that their gun doesn't have to be placed as far back from the glass. The reason for the distance is that the farther back the gun is, the smaller the deflection angle. Decreasing the deflection angle allows them to use larger screens and higher resolutions without needing to increase the speed of the gun's scanning (which would require more powerful magnets). The more powerful the magnets, the harder it is to be accurate. This is why CRT TVs had much less depth than PC CRTs. Because TVs only needed to scan a 640x320 resolution at a max of 30Hz (interlacing allowed them to scan odd lines first and then even lines) and had larger phosphors, they didn't need the same sort of accuracy as on a PC....I'm rambling now, but my point is that it's very possible for them to bring the gun closer to the screen and reduce the depth.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Just think of the picture quality we'd have right now if they put all the funding from LCD research from the past couple of years into CRT research.

I wouldn't enjoy this. CRTs are too big for me, I don't have the room. I'm personally happy CRTs were shoved a side.

As far as e-IPS go, I love it. Very few people need/want the color accuracy and H-IPS/S-IPS gives you. (mostly because of the cost) But an e-IPS gives you a good image, good viewing angles, and all for only just a bit more than a TN panel.

To be honest, I'm surprised ghosting bothers anybody (when it's not monumental, that is). I'm even more surprised that TwoCables noticed it just within Firefox. I'm willing to bet it was his monitor's fault. (slow, maybe?)


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
It could actually be overcome. I don't have the link offhand, and I forget what the name they gave the technology is, but Canon and a few other companies were working on a CRT technology where instead of using a single gun that scanned the image they were going to split it up into one gun per every square inch (or something like that).

Also, if you look at more modern CRTs versus the older ones, you'll find that their gun doesn't have to be placed as far back from the glass. The reason for the distance is that the farther back the gun is, the smaller the deflection angle. Decreasing the deflection angle allows them to use larger screens and higher resolutions without needing to increase the speed of the gun's scanning (which would require more powerful magnets). The more powerful the magnets, the harder it is to be accurate. This is why CRT TVs had much less depth than PC CRTs. Because TVs only needed to scan a 640x320 resolution at a max of 30Hz (interlacing allowed them to scan odd lines first and then even lines) and had larger phosphors, they didn't need the same sort of accuracy as on a PC....I'm rambling now, but my point is that it's very possible for them to bring the gun closer to the screen and reduce the depth.

Oh I know, but I meant to add in weight and not size again.
Magnets are heavy, and that's where half the weight comes from.

Also, I think what you're thinking of is SED Technology


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


When I see "Service life, standard key: > 10 million key operations ", it tells me that this might have Scissor Switches. Plus, he really likes the way the keys feel, so it has to be a decent Scissor board!


Interesting.







I like the scissors in my Illuminated, it just needs full NKRO.


----------



## clownfart

Logitechs are amazing pieces of hardware. The quality of this gaming keyboard can not be surpassed. Every true gamer should pick this as their choice of of gaming peripheral godliness. No other keyboard comes close to this. No one wants any of these stone age CLICK CLACK CLICK CLACK keyboards. So loud and annoying, no wonder they don't make them anymore, they suck. I love my G15, I have one, so you should have you too if you have any self worth.


----------



## TFL Replica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clownfart* 
Logitechs are amazing pieces of hardware. The quality of this gaming keyboard can not be surpassed. Every true gamer should pick this as their choice of of gaming peripheral godliness. No other keyboard comes close to this. No one wants any of these stone age CLICK CLACK CLICK CLACK keyboards. So loud and annoying, no wonder they don't make them anymore, they suck. I love my G15, I have one, so you should have you too if you have any self worth.

No self respecting PC gamer would use a G15 keyboard (or any other "gaming keyboard"). Only wannabes.


----------



## Phaedrus2129




----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clownfart*


Logitechs are amazing pieces of hardware. The quality of this gaming keyboard can not be surpassed. Every true gamer should pick this as their choice of of gaming peripheral godliness. No other keyboard comes close to this. No one wants any of these stone age CLICK CLACK CLICK CLACK keyboards. So loud and annoying, no wonder they don't make them anymore, they suck. I love my G15, I have one, so you should have you too if you have any self worth.


lol @ "stone age"


----------



## Marin

Issue that I've been having lately. When I'm playing games and type something fast (like in TF2 when I quickly type a message), the game will minimize. This issue only started occuring as soon as I started using the M1. Never had this problem with my G15.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


Issue that I've been having lately. When I'm playing games and type something fast (like in TF2 when I quickly type a message), the game will minimize. This issue only started occuring as soon as I started using the M1. Never had this problem with my G15.


Is it possible that your right hand is pressing the Context Key button that is located to the right of the right-sided Windows Key? I mean, most people don't hover their wrists while they are using their keyboard, so I think that it's very possible.

I mean, the keys of the G15 need to be pressed all the way down to register. But for mechanical keyboards, they only need to be pressed down approximately half way, so this means that even though you haven't changed anything, it's likely that your imperfect technique is being magnified by this keyboard.


----------



## Marin

I don't think I'm pressing the key since I don't rest my palms on the keyboard.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
I don't think I'm pressing the key since I don't rest my palms on the keyboard.

I didn't say that you're resting your palms on the keyboard. But most people tend to keep their wrists planted on their wrist rest while they're using their keyboard, and this has the potential to cause some of the keys on the bottom row of a mechanical keyboard to be pressed since they don't need to be pressed down all the way to the bottom just to register.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
I don't think I'm pressing the key since I don't rest my palms on the keyboard.

The only solution to this... Get a Deck Linear, 7G, or Filco Linear NKRO.


----------



## pow3rtr1p

Loving my Filco. Amazing, amazing stuff. Loud, but awesome.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pow3rtr1p*


Loving my Filco. Amazing, amazing stuff. Loud, but awesome.


If by chance you wish to make it quieter, then I have two things that I recommend:

Hover the wrists while using the keyboard (try to avoid keeping the wrists planted down)
Practice just _touching_ the keys instead of tapping them or pressing them. This will definitely take some practice, but I know from experience that it's worth it
Combining these 2 things can really help to make less noise due to bottoming out much less (or, just not bottoming out as hard).


----------



## clownfart

If you're resting your wrist some thing extremely wrong is happening. It's a _palm_ rest not a wrist rest.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *clownfart*


If you're resting your wrist some thing extremely wrong is happening. It's a _palm_ rest not a wrist rest.


Then why are they called a "wrist rest"?

Regardless, the only time I use mine is when I'm not using my keyboard and am pausing for a very brief moment to think about what I'm going to type next. Or, when I'm gaming and have reached a brief moment where I don't need to press any buttons on the keyboard. Otherwise, I just pull my hands away and use my lap; it's nature's arm rest.


----------



## lmnop

it's a wrist rest.


----------



## skkhai

My Filco finally came in. Between it and the M1, it's WORLDS apart. I kind of wish I had went with the blues, these browns are super light. But they're damn quiet!


----------



## GeforceGTS

^^ Nice, I wanted the Otaku but they don't seem to stock them in the UK, Â£20 for a blank keyset separately though, I might get them later..

I've had some more time to use mine and I really love it now, I'm no keyboard expert so all I can say is it's awesome


----------



## Aeonus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GeforceGTS*


^^ Nice, I wanted the Otaku but they don't seem to stock them in the UK, Â£20 for a blank keyset separately though, I might get them later..

I've had some more time to use mine and I really love it now, I'm no keyboard expert so all I can say is it's awesome










I'm looking for a UK-keyset (105 keys instead of 104, and a large enter key) as a stock blank version (yatta, Otaku), but there is none as of yet. A 104-key blank set is not compatible with a UK layout board either (different number of keys, different sizes & shapes on some etc)... :/

I asked about those from a UK retailer and got: 
" I'll certainly ask and see if blank 105 key layouts are planned, as much as I know at the moment is that it's not something we're able to order right now. "
- http://forums.kustompcs.co.uk/showthread.php?t=48969


----------



## Manyak

thekeyboardco.com


----------



## Hoodcom

Well, I've been looking and I'm thinking about this Mechanical Keyboard, the Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO...

This one has the Cherry MX Blue Switches and N-Key Roll Over (If I am understanding right, this is a good feature, correct?)

104-Key
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...id=fkbn104mceb

I am also liking the 87 key model too, but I do use the numpad.









Well, one thing, I am kinda blindly choosing due to not knowing how these certain keys feel, but I do like "blue" as a color and the Green lights. lol


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoodcom* 
Well, I've been looking and I'm thinking about this Mechanical Keyboard, the Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO...

This one has the Cherry MX Blue Switches and N-Key Roll Over (If I am understanding right, this is a good feature, correct?)

104-Key
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...id=fkbn104mceb

I am also liking the 87 key model too, but I do use the numpad.









Well, one thing, I am kinda blindly choosing due to not knowing how these certain keys feel, but I do like "blue" as a color and the Green lights. lol









Unfortunately, it's a bad idea to blindly choose the switch type without knowing how they feel and what applications they perform best (and worst) in. So the best thing to do is first choose the switch type that you know you will like the most based on how it is said to feel. Of course, one great resource is all of the first posts in this thread that make up the entire guide.

Another excellent resource is actually YouTube. I recommend just searching on things like "mechanical keyboard", "filco majestouch", "cherry MX blues", "cherry MX browns", "cherry MX", etc. Just keep performing more searches as they come to you (don't ignore any search criteria ideas that come to you). The nice thing about using YouTube is not only do you get a general idea of how the switches and keyboards sound, but you get both a visual and audible idea of how they feel!

In other words: the appearance of the keyboard in any aspect is the very last thing to consider.

Anyway, regarding N-Key Rollover (or "NKRO"): it would be incorrectly marketed today as "Full Anti-Ghosting across the entire keyboard". So yeah, it's an awesome feature: it means there is absolutely no limit to the keyboard's Key Rollover!

So just do as much research as you can to learn about all of the available switch types out there, especially regarding how they feel and then regarding how they sound (the feel is probably the most important aspect). After that, look for the best keyboards within your apparently-high budget that have these switches and you'll be absolutely blissful with your purchase!


----------



## Hoodcom

Thank you for that advice, Two Cables.







(I actually didn't think of looking it up on youtube. lol )

Yeah, I think I'll have to do just that, only thing it won't help me with is getting to actually feel it for myself, but at least I can get ideas of other's opinions and ect.

I noticed you have a Filco keyboard, according to your signature. What switch type do you have?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hoodcom*


Thank you for that advice, Two Cables.







(I actually didn't think of looking it up on youtube. lol )


You're welcome! And yeah, I didn't think of it either until I had I already watched a couple of videos. I mean, I kinda sat there going, "hey! Wait a sec! This is a good idea!". hehe









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hoodcom*


Yeah, I think I'll have to do just that, only thing it won't help me with is getting to actually feel it for myself, but at least I can get ideas of other's opinions and ect.


I was torn between the Cherry MX Browns, Cherry MX Blues, and the Buckling Springs. So, I just kept watching video after video after video, and before long, I found myself falling in love with the sound of the Cherry MX Blues. And then I stumbled upon a couple of videos that went into some extreme detail showing somebody slowly pushing down keys that had the Cherry MX Browns and also the Blues; once I saw that and combined it with all of the other research I had done (and also knowing that my primary use is typing), I settled on the Cherry MX Blues.

Then, of course, I started shopping for the best keyboard with that switch type, and so I ended up with several choices, but I eventually ended up making a decision based on how much I knew I would like what I was choosing over everything else!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hoodcom*


I noticed you have a Filco keyboard, according to your signature. What switch type do you have?


Well, it goes like this:

Tactile Click = Cherry MX Blues
Tactile Touch = Cherry MX Browns
Linear Force = Cherry MX Blacks


----------



## Hoodcom

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


You're welcome! And yeah, I didn't think of it either until I had I already watched a couple of videos. I mean, I kinda sat there going, "hey! Wait a sec! This is a good idea!". hehe










Found some videos on first search!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*

I was torn between the Cherry MX Browns, Cherry MX Blues, and the Buckling Springs. So, I just kept watching video after video after video, and before long, I found myself falling in love with the sound of the Cherry MX Blues. And then I stumbled upon a couple of videos that went into some extreme detail showing somebody slowly pushing down keys that had the Cherry MX Browns and also the Blues; once I saw that and combined it with all of the other research I had done (and also knowing that my primary use is typing), I settled on the Cherry MX Blues.


After just hearing the sound of the Cherry MX Blues, I just absolutely LOVE the sound coming from it! The exact sound I've been dreaming to hear, like from the old keyboards I had for a couple of 486 machines!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*

Then, of course, I started shopping for the best keyboard with that switch type, and so I ended up with several choices, but I eventually ended up making a decision based on how much I knew I would like what I was choosing over everything else!

Well, it goes like this:

Tactile Click = Cherry MX Blues
Tactile Touch = Cherry MX Browns
Linear Force = Cherry MX Blacks











Wow! That makes it simpler to find out! Learn something everyday.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hoodcom*


Found some videos on first search!










w00t!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hoodcom*


After just hearing the sound of the Cherry MX Blues, I just absolutely LOVE the sound coming from it! The exact sound I've been dreaming to hear, like from the old keyboards I had for a couple of 486 machines!


Nice! And for me, it was that full-of-treble crisp click sound! Every single time I would watch videos that had the non-clicky keyboards, I thought "hmm... that's pretty nice, I guess!". But when I would hear the keyboards with the Cherry MX Blues, I guess I could risk my manliness by saying that my heart just went pitter-patter. I could have said, "Oh! Be still, my heart!" So yeah, it was love at first listen.

So, that's when I knew I had to make absolutely sure I was going to like both the feel and performance of the switch. Sure enough, my research led me to the conclusion that I most definitely would. And I here I am today telling people that for the first time ever, typing on my keyboard is pure fun. It's like how a child feels about their favorite toy that never gets old for them!

But I almost went with the Cherry MX Browns anyway just because they are said to be better than the Blues for gaming, and so they're a safe compromise between the Blacks and the Blues. But then I started playing more YouTube videos and that click sound of the Cherry MX Blues stole my heart every single time.

And then when I started actually *using* the keyboard, my heart went nuts again. Yeah, some people will say, "whoa, chill out man. It's just a keyboard". hahahahahaha No.







There's nothing quite like the difference between the dead feeling of a rubber dome switch and the lively feeling of a spring-loaded mechanical switch! This keyboard is alive! It works with me, not against me! When I press a key, it presses back just enough to make me go "oh, that feels nice".

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hoodcom*


Wow! That makes it simpler to find out! Learn something everyday.










Yeah! When I first became interested in the Filco Majestouch boards, it took me over a month to finally figure out the differences!


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Ive been thinking about switching to a mechanical keyboard for a few months now. The two I have been looking at are linear style, cause Ive heard linear aren't as loud as tactile.

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...id=fkbn104mleb

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/product...products_id=52

I was wondering about the filco, will the letters wear out quick? Also as someone who games 90% of the time on this pc, is black better then brown? I can't make up my mind, but I feel black would be better since it requires more force, less chance of fat fingering another key.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*


Ive been thinking about switching to a mechanical keyboard for a few months now. The two I have been looking at are linear style, cause Ive heard linear aren't as loud as tactile.

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...id=fkbn104mleb

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/product...products_id=52

I was wondering about the filco, will the letters wear out quick? Also as someone who games 90% of the time on this pc, is black better then brown? I can't make up my mind, but I feel black would be better since it requires more force, less chance of fat fingering another key.


For what you're looking for, the Cherry MX Blacks are indeed the better choice.

As for the lettering wearing out on the Filco Majestouch boards: it depends, but the average is anywhere from a couple of months to maybe 6 months or more. But how much of the lettering of course depends on how much friction you apply to the printing every day, how much sweat/oil your fingers have, how dirty they are, how dirty the keys are, etc.

Fortunately, if you decide to get the Linear Force, you can still replace the keycaps with ones that are guaranteed to have no wear on the lettering.

I've had my Filco Majestouch since March 9th (over 2 months now), and none of the lettering has begun to wear. It still looks almost perfectly brand new, except some of the keys are just now beginning to have a little bit of shine to them, but it's not a big deal.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


For what you're looking for, the Cherry MX Blacks are indeed the better choice.

As for the lettering wearing out on the Filco Majestouch boards: it depends, but the average is anywhere from a couple of months to maybe 6 months or more. But how much of the lettering of course depends on how much friction you apply to the printing every day, how much sweat/oil your fingers have, how dirty they are, how dirty the keys are, etc.

Fortunately, if you decide to get the Linear Force, you can still replace the keycaps with ones that are guaranteed to have no wear on the lettering.

I've had my Filco Majestouch since March 9th (over 2 months now), and none of the lettering has begun to wear. It still looks almost perfectly brand new, except some of the keys are just now beginning to have a little bit of shine to them, but it's not a big deal.


I got the lycosa mirror so basically I clean it every day with rubbing alcohol, or else it looks like a mess from dust/fingerprints. The keys are still looking good and Ive had it for about 8 months.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*


I got the lycosa mirror so basically I clean it every day with rubbing alcohol, or else it looks like a mess from dust/fingerprints. The keys are still looking good and Ive had it for about 8 months.


Yeah, but the lettering is more or less a hole in that mirror-like coating.


----------



## pow3rtr1p

I do float my palms for the most part, since I'm a bit of a pecker. I have the Otaku, so I don't really hunt, but my form is certainly far from perfect.

Sometimes I rest the side of my left hand off to the side, but I typically float my arms, unless I'm gaming for extended periods.

Maybe Cherry Blues are just loud by nature, lol.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pow3rtr1p*


I do float my palms for the most part, since I'm a bit of a pecker. I have the Otaku, so I don't really hunt, but my form is certainly far from perfect.

Sometimes I rest the side of my left hand off to the side, but I typically float my arms, unless I'm gaming for extended periods.

Maybe Cherry Blues are just loud by nature, lol.


Hmm.. Try this:

Slowly press a key down until it clicks, and then let go. Then compare it to the sound you're getting right now that seems loud. I'm suspecting that the keycaps are being bottomed out against the body of the keyboard.


----------



## pow3rtr1p

You're right, it's the keys bottoming out. I'll try to learn to type a little lighter, I guess, lol.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer* 
I got the lycosa mirror so basically I clean it every day with rubbing alcohol, or else it looks like a mess from dust/fingerprints. The keys are still looking good and Ive had it for about 8 months.

the Filco keycaps are made out of polystyrene this is a low end plastic that is commonly used by Logitech and Microsoft. the keycaps are really thin and the thickness of a keycap is important because it influences sound and touch. the printing is pad printed and a uniform coating is applied to the keycap to protect the pad printing from fading this is what it looks like when it wears.


































Filco top left, Logitech bottom left.

you can buy a couple sets of pad printed keycaps from elitekeyboards which will cost $35/ea or you can harvest double shot keycaps from 2 used Cherry keyboards from eBay which will cost you $60+ and the end result will look like this.

Deck keycaps are made out of PBT which is a blend of polycarbonate (thermal plastic) and polyester, the keycaps on Topre and Unicomp keyboards are also made out of PBT. the keycaps are thicker than Filco. the printing is unique because they use 2-shot or double shot molding and sublimated.


----------



## Aeonus

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
As for the lettering wearing out on the Filco Majestouch boards: it depends, but the average is anywhere from a couple of months to maybe 6 months or more. But how much of the lettering of course depends on how much friction you apply to the printing every day, how much sweat/oil your fingers have, how dirty they are, how dirty the keys are, etc.

I read somewhere that the blank keys in Otaku boards have a surface coating similar to the printed keys, and that the separate blank keyset has just a matte surface.
Does this mean that the blank Otaku keys will also wear out and become ugly & shiny, thus making it better for an aesthete such as myself to buy a printed keyboard + a blank keyset?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Aeonus* 
I read somewhere that the blank keys in Otaku boards have a surface coating similar to the printed keys, and that the separate blank keyset has just a matte surface.
Does this mean that the blank Otaku keys will also wear out and become ugly & shiny, thus making it better for an aesthete such as myself to buy a printed keyboard + a blank keyset?

the stock keycaps on the Otaku model have a uniform coating like the printed set on the other models. the blank set of keycaps elitekeyboards sell under accessories don't have a uniform coating.


----------



## Aeonus

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
the stock keycaps on the Otaku model have a uniform coating like the printed set on the other models. the blank set of keycaps elitekeyboards sell under accessories don't have a uniform coating.

I just got mail from keyboardco, telling that blank 105 keysets are coming ^^
Also, they are getting some boards with a Swed/Fin layout, it should be 105 keys as well. Perfect for a dweller of the Arctic such as myself.


----------



## nijikon5

Cousin couldn't get the Black Cherry 3494 :/ Only in White. Oh well, he's going to ship it out UPS in about 2-3 days. Hopefully it'll be in within 2 weeks. Will post pics once it comes in.

Christine, whats the difference between the key caps on the White and Black 3494?


----------



## KipH

I am having trouble finding the Cherry boards in Taiwan too, places that used to have them are out of stock. Can someone help me find the one with reds for Manyak


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


I am having trouble finding the Cherry boards in Taiwan too, places that used to have them are out of stock. Can someone help me find the one with reds for Manyak










sorry to hear









you should try obook. I got a quote from them they will ship a Cherry G80-3494 from China to America by Freight with no insurance for $202.59 US (Paypal)

Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-0 White
Polystyrene casing
PBT keycaps
Laser Etched printing.
Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-2 Black
ABS casing
POM keycaps
Laser Etched printing.


----------



## KipH

Can you post the obook www addy please


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


Can you post the obook www addy please










http://www.myobook.net/

they are a export service that ship products from Taobao, Newegg China, Amazon China and a couple other sites.

e-mail [email protected] for price inquiry.


----------



## Maytan

Can someone point me to where you can buy replacement caps for the Model S? I don't need any, I just want to know for future reference.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Aeonus* 
I read somewhere that the blank keys in Otaku boards have a surface coating similar to the printed keys, and that the separate blank keyset has just a matte surface.
Does this mean that the blank Otaku keys will also wear out and become ugly & shiny, thus making it better for an aesthete such as myself to buy a printed keyboard + a blank keyset?

You are right that the stock keys that come with the Filco "Otaku" boards will wear out in the same way, but the blank keys available for purchase shouldn't wear out like that because there's no coating, but instead it's just a texture. They almost look like they're sandblasted, but I don't know yet.

Either way, we talked about it a few pages ago in this thread and that's when I learned that the blank keys available for purchase at ElliteKeyboards.com aren't coated.


----------



## Manyak

The non-coated ones still end up shiny, but they don't look as ugly as the coated ones when they do.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Can someone point me to where you can buy replacement caps for the Model S? I don't need any, I just want to know for future reference.

I think I read somewhere the Filco keycaps are compatible with the Das but it will be a 'tight' fit. skcheng can put that to the test.

I definitely remember reading someone complaining about their Das Professional F, J keys and Metadot replaced them.

and of course harvesting double shot keycaps from Cherry keyboards.

so you have a couple options.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I think I read somewhere the Filco keycaps are compatible with the Das but it will be a 'tight' fit. skcheng can put that to the test.

I definitely remember reading someone complaining about their Das Professional F, J keys and Metadot replaced them.

and of course harvesting double shot keycaps from Cherry keyboards.

so you have a couple options.


Hmm, interesting. Mostly the Cherry keyboards part. Basically, if I need to replace any keys, I can just find a Cherry with double-shots and then I have an entire board of keys at my disposable.

Just nice to know in-case of a problematic situation. Thanks!


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Hmm, interesting. Mostly the Cherry keyboards part. Basically, if I need to replace any keys, I can just find a Cherry with double-shots and then I have an entire board of keys at my disposable.

Just nice to know in-case of a problematic situation. Thanks!


they don't even have to be double shot they can be laser etched which are more common on Cherry keyboards. Cherry laser etching process is nice because the lettering has the same texture as the keycap and they use some kind of special ink filling process you can't see any burn marks.

Cherry









Metadot


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


they don't even have to be double shot they can be laser etched which are more common on Cherry keyboards. Cherry laser etching process is nice because the lettering has the same texture as the keycap and they use some kind of special ink filling process you can't see any burn marks.


Even better, gives me more options.

Just three days to go.









EDIT: Oh wow. Both of them look pretty nice, but the Cherry definitely looks a bit cleaner.


----------



## lmnop

the burn marks are common on alot of laser etched keycaps.


----------



## Maytan

I'd imagine so. I'm amazed that the burn marks aren't more dramatic than they are, to be quite honest.

Also, how long do you suppose stock keys should last? (talking about the Das of course) I've used pad printed keys for ages without them wearing (I'm not a rough typist or anything). Should I assume these will last a fairly long time?


----------



## lmnop

there are many old and used mechanical keyboards that have laser etched keycaps. the ink might fade a little but they should last a long time, longer than pad printed keycaps that's for sure.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


there are many old and used mechanical keyboards that have laser etched keycaps. the ink might fade a little but they should last a long time, longer than pad printed keycaps that's for sure.


Once again, that's great to know.







I appreciate all the help!


----------



## Dease

I just recieved the Model S Pro that I bought here

The box says "Professional S" but the keyboard doesn't have any function keys or media function buttons. Did I get the Das III as mentioned on the first page?

The typing experience is great but the media keys were the reason I chose Das over other models - does anyone know where to find the model s pro w/ media functions in Canada?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Apparently Das made a revision to the Professional S and removed the media keys.

Way to go Das.


----------



## Maytan

^I agree. :|


----------



## Crazy9000

I personally prefer a board without media keys. They are ugly and useless.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I personally prefer a board without media keys. They are ugly and useless.

Ugly? Perhaps. Useless? Eh, depends. I get good use out of Volume keys... but that's pretty much it. The others are nice to have in the rare case that I watch a movie, though.


----------



## Dease

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Ugly? Perhaps. Useless? Eh, depends. I get good use out of Volume keys... but that's pretty much it. The others are nice to have in the rare case that I watch a movie, though.


This.

Also when playing a game I always hit the left windows key by accident, the function key replacing the windows key solves this for me.

Anyone looking to trade a used media-key version for a brand new revised version, pm me.


----------



## lmnop

someone on geekhack mentioned something about mac users complaining about the media keys on the Das Model S, though it might of been a joke you can never tell these days









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dease*


This.

Also when playing a game I always hit the left windows key by accident, the function key replacing the windows key solves this for me.

Anyone looking to trade a used media-key version for a brand new revised version, pm me.


you can use AutoHotKey to disable the L-Windows Key. AutoHotKey can turn the L-Windows Key into a Function Key and turn F1-6 into Media Keys exactly like the Das Model S with Media Keys. the only difference is yours won't have media icons printed on the legends.


----------



## Maytan

^Haha, oh man. Figures it'd be Mac users.

EDIT:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Custom-Made-Waln...item1e582af725

These must be AWESOME to type on.


----------



## Crazy9000

I don't know, personally I don't think I'd want to use a wooden keyboard.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


^Haha, oh man. Figures it'd be Mac users.

EDIT:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Custom-Made-Waln...item1e582af725

These must be AWESOME to type on.


that keyboard will last you *at least minimum* for 100 years


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
that keyboard will last you *at least minimum* for 100 years









it's made by a Japanese Company that manufactures all kinds of wood peripheral products.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
it's made by a Japanese Company that manufactures all kinds of wood peripheral products.

+50 years if it is made by Japanese.
i love the quality, almost everything that made in japan, or made by japanese.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I don't know, personally I don't think I'd want to use a wooden keyboard.

Eh, I thought it'd be more comfortable than plastic.


----------



## Manyak

I just noticed that you're in Coram. I used to live in Middle Island, right off of 25


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I just noticed that you're in Coram. I used to live in Middle Island, right off of 25










Wow, that's right next to me. (as you obviously know already) It's pretty amazing when you think about it, all the people on the internet. For all I know I could be talking to my neighbors, hehe.


----------



## KipH

I have good news and bad news for Taiwan mec kbrd shoppers. I can't fine one, unless you want the same Irock with blues (but with browns in the picture) for the same price you can buy it in USA









But a new computer mall opened near my home. I know that does not help you but its good news for me









If anyone can find one online for me please pm me the address, and no taibow please, unless you want me to fly to HK.


----------



## Alpstouch

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


I have good news and bad news for Taiwan mec kbrd shoppers. I can't fine one, unless you want the same Irock with blues (but with browns in the picture) for the same price you can buy it in USA









But a new computer mall opened near my home. I know that does not help you but its good news for me









If anyone can find one online for me please pm me the address, and no taibow please, unless you want me to fly to HK.


Have you check out Yahoo or PChome websites in Taiwan? They have everything from Cherry G80-3494 to Steelseries 6Gv2. And if you're living in Chiayi, check this out http://tw.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auct...740602?u=u2_3c

BTW, I-Rocks offers KR-6230 with Cherry Browns only. A wonderful KB which I actually prefer over Filco.


----------



## KipH

It is brown? Why did I think it was blue? Odd. It is a great board! Took getting used to with the odd ?/ key and a few other quirks. But its great. I just bought a usb fan and usb flexi light to plug in, so now its cooled and illuminated. I love saying "illuminated!"

There are more at the store if you need Chinese/English printing







Same price as in US plus shipping









I was just at the U2 3C today. Did not see that one. A good excuse to go back


----------



## Phaedrus2129

My G80-8200LPDUS is out for delivery. Let's hope it gets here promptly.


----------



## Artemis

Just bought a Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless Tactile Click "Otako" and a set of the Lavender WASD keys! Cant wait for it to come! Im stick of this horrible Logitec G11.








Two day shipping isnt fast enough!!!

Question for anyone whos ordered from Elitekeyboards; Did you receive a confirmation email/invoice/tracking number? Placed my order a few hours ago and ive only gotten a payment confirmation from PayPal so far.


----------



## salmasy

Manyak could you please use your far greater knowledge of the workings of a keyboard to explain ghosting to these fools please http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...winder-x4.html


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I can swipe a card and make the magic credit card info pop up.









I think I can set it so I log in with one of my numerous cards... (not credit or debit; I'm not stupid)


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I can swipe a card and make the magic credit card info pop up.









I think I can set it so I log in with one of my numerous cards... (not credit or debit; I'm not stupid)


That's kind of cool actually.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Yup.









Plus 48 keys with the relegendable caps, and those+11 keys on the numpad can be reprogrammed and stored in onboard memory. Plus NKRO. And Cherry MX Browns. For $35.









I think this keyboard will suit me for quite a while.


----------



## Maytan

Sounds like an awesome buy. I'd love one myself if I had extra cash.


----------



## Kaankin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Artemis* 
Just bought a Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless Tactile Click "Otako" and a set of the Lavender WASD keys! Cant wait for it to come! Im stick of this horrible Logitec G11.








Two day shipping isnt fast enough!!!

Question for anyone whos ordered from Elitekeyboards; Did you receive a confirmation email/invoice/tracking number? Placed my order a few hours ago and ive only gotten a payment confirmation from PayPal so far.

It takes awhile for them to get back to you because there's not many ppl there, but you'll get it soon enough! Gratz! Love my tenkeyless brns!


----------



## Maytan

Got my wrist rest in the mail today. This thing is awesome. Keyboard gets here tomorrow, can't wait!


----------



## Artemis

Ok they just emailed me with confirmation and tracking #, should be here Friday!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dease*


I just recieved the Model S Pro that I bought here

The box says "Professional S" but the keyboard doesn't have any function keys or media function buttons. Did I get the Das III as mentioned on the first page?

The typing experience is great but the media keys were the reason I chose Das over other models - does anyone know where to find the model s pro w/ media functions in Canada?


Some other programs you can use to make media keys in addition to AutoHotKey are SharpKeys and KeyboardLink. I highly recommend trying both SharpKeys and KeyboardLink. AutoHotKey is praised by the majority, but I prefer something that does what I want in a very simple way.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Artemis*


Just bought a Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless Tactile Click "Otako" and a set of the Lavender WASD keys! Cant wait for it to come! Im stick of this horrible Logitec G11.








Two day shipping isnt fast enough!!!

Question for anyone whos ordered from Elitekeyboards; Did you receive a confirmation email/invoice/tracking number? Placed my order a few hours ago and ive only gotten a payment confirmation from PayPal so far.


They have a standing request with FedEx that they e-mail Elite Keyboards' customers a shipping status update for each order.  So when your order ships, you receive an e-mail from FedEx and it will show that it was requested by Elite Keyboards (or really, it was requested by Brian). And then when the tracking shows that it was delivered, you'll receive another update on top of that from FedEx again.

In other words, the service is top-notch. You might say that the service is "elite".









*Edit:*

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Artemis*


Ok they just emailed me with confirmation and tracking #, should be here Friday!


Friday sounds a bit early for 2-day shipping unless it's "2nd Day" shipping.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *salmasy*


Manyak could you please use your far greater knowledge of the workings of a keyboard to explain ghosting to these fools please http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...winder-x4.html


I decided to do it.


----------



## salmasy

Wow, manyak's gotten a protegÃ©


----------



## TwoCables

lol


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *salmasy*


Wow, manyak's gotten a protegÃ©










What have you done, Twocables has been obsessed with pointing out at great lengths why using the term ghosting incorrectly will spell ruin for our entire civilization







. It really would be nice if they all just used the proper terminology though.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
What have you done, Twocables has been obsessed with pointing out at great lengths why using the term ghosting incorrectly will spell ruin for our entire civilization







. It really would be nice if they all just used the proper terminology though.

lol


----------



## Manyak

What's funny is that they were actually using the term correctly, lol!


----------



## KipH

Really? do I owe then an apology. I ripped into the MS guy a bit


----------



## Crazy9000

http://www.overclock.net/9406347-post28.html

I think Paul brings up an excellent point in that post. For the most part, the popular industry has moved to using the term ghosting to mean that a key you are hitting is not being registered. It is my opinion that the popular companies are not going to back down from this, and that eventually the other companies will have to follow. Therefore, I think it may be a good idea for people to just accept that the terminology is changing, and that in the future nobody will say "n-key rollover".

At this point, I think the least confusing thing for people who are trying to buy keyboards would be if enthusiasts just gave in and started using the term ''anti-ghosting" themselves.

What do you guys think?


----------



## KipH

Your forte must not be English then. How do you pronounce forte? Fort (with an accent over the t) not for tay like so many have begun doing. /rant.

You can see by my response to his response that not having a proper term to distinguish leads to confusion. So we need a word for both types of ghosting. Or should we say the x4 cured the ghosting problem and removed the usb ghosting limit but added a completely different ghosting problem?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Not a lot, but it's a start to a collection. eh?









Top to bottom: 
Cherry G80-8200LPDUS
IBM Model M 1391401 1988
Compaq MX-11800
Cherry G84-4100PPAUS

Also, review of the G80-8200LPDUS:
http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...us-review.html


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
Your forte must not be English then. How do you pronounce forte? Fort (with an accent over the t) not for tay like so many have begun doing. /rant.

You can see by my response to his response that not having a proper term to distinguish leads to confusion. So we need a word for both types of ghosting. Or should we say the x4 cured the ghosting problem and removed the usb ghosting limit but added a completely different ghosting problem?

Good example there actually. I've literally never heard anyone actually pronounce it "Fort" before. It looks like the dictionarys are adding "for-tay" as an alternative pronunciation now too. Things like this have happened to several words; so many people pronounce them wrong that it becomes the correct way to pronounce it.

I think that will happen eventually with the term ghosting vs NKRO, so why fight it lol.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


http://www.overclock.net/9406347-post28.html

I think Paul brings up an excellent point in that post. For the most part, the popular industry has moved to using the term ghosting to mean that a key you are hitting is not being registered. It is my opinion that the popular companies are not going to back down from this, and that eventually the other companies will have to follow. Therefore, I think it may be a good idea for people to just accept that the terminology is changing, and that in the future nobody will say "n-key rollover".

At this point, I think the least confusing thing for people who are trying to buy keyboards would be if enthusiasts just gave in and started using the term ''anti-ghosting" themselves.

What do you guys think?


But calling a lack of Key Rollover to be "Ghosting" makes absolutely no sense. I mean, true Ghosting was called Ghosting because characters were appearing out of nowhere in exactly the same manner "real" ghosts are said to appear out of nowhere. I mean, here we have people saying, "Damn, I pressed 5 keys at the same time, but 2 of them didn't register. Hmm, maybe that's why it's called Ghosting because 2 characters disappeared on me and became _Ghosts._" Now that is laughable. I mean, it's _almost_ logical, but still far from it when the definition of the word "ghost" is considered.

No, y'know what I think? I think that they are calling it "Anti-Ghosting" because it sounds cool. Think about it: how many gamers are going to see "N-Key Rollover" and be attracted to it when it sounds pale in comparison to "_Anti-Ghosting!"_. I mean, one sounds boring and the other one is almost exciting and mysterious. But concerning Microsoft's Sidewinder X4, they need to explain that it has up to 26-Key Rollover without Ghosting. What do I mean? I mean they need to address both terms and explain what they are. They also need to explain what happens when more than 12 keys are pressed simultaneously in Windows when a keyboard is connected via USB.

But I admit that I am probably just wasting my time.


----------



## KipH

It is also happening to can not, much to my consternation. I mean Can't is a contraction of 2 words by definition, why spell if cannot, but that is the dictionary now too. This is also why wiki adds disambiguation to make sure your defining the right thing. But then l33t is in the dictionary now to. The world is ending I tell ya.

But in technical terms such disambiguation must be implicit in the word. If we want to use the term ghosting as the general term what do we call the error of ghost key-presses that the x4 suffers from?


----------



## Maytan

^I personally find 'N-key rollover' to be a cooler term than 'Anti-ghosting.' Just sayin'.


----------



## Diogones

Good point about the terminology guys. Just think, if they go with ghosting as the new word, everyone will say "I see dead keystrokes!" The 6th sense: The Keyboard Kid. Sounds like a real summer blockbuster.

Anyhow, I am confused; if the Adesso-MKB is USB, why does the company claim it supports NKRO? There's no way that could happen. It must be false advertising, or they mean something else. I might go with the Adesso or the ABS-M1. Sure, the ABS, doesn't have NKRO, but it has black switches, which may be more conducive to gaming than the blue switch Adesso. After all, blues require you to lift your finger to double tap, and that will certainly slow you down.

I thought about going with the Scorpius M10, but after hearing about its soldering issues, I'll steer clear. I've really narrowed down my keyboard choice now: 
1.) It will be a black, gray, or darker color keyboard (as beige and white tend to show dirt and grime more easily).
2.) It will have the standard keyboard layout (the compact size, shrunked backspace key, or jam-packed key design just do not appeal to me).
3.) It doesn't have to have NKRO, but that is a bonus. I don't really see what I would use it for unless I was typing at the speed of sound.

I need to decide if buckling springs is easier for gaming than blues, as I've heard disparate views on the subject. On the one hand, buckling springs are more tactile, so double tapping is easier. On the other hand, blues bounce back faster, so the response time is faster. It definitely is something to think about.


----------



## KipH

Don't get blues or 2 cables will post about them again









NKRO on USB can be supported if you first us an adapter and plug it into PS2. (I think and on some boards)


----------



## lmnop

Manyak

Deck Legend Blanks
Deck 82 Blanks


----------



## Crazy9000

Is there any good way to letter those blank keycaps? We have a small laser at work that puts our part # and such on aluminum that would easily be able to mark something, but then the key would feel a little odd from having the letter part cut away I would think.


----------



## lmnop

I don't know but $25 for a 105 set of PBT blanks is a good price. I bet they look great illuminated. I think they were originally sold for people interested in customized keycaps.


----------



## lmnop

maybe you should buy a set so you can use them to "Otaku" or harvest in case a keycap breaks. you have 100 tries. I don't know what kind of laser printing you have at work but the lettering and ink would have to be really thick otherwise the light from the LED will go straight through I guess that is why Signature Plastics Dye Sub the lettering on the legends for Deck keycaps.


----------



## yayitsdan

I found a black model M yesterday at a computer shop. I picked it up for $10 which is a steal in my eyes. The only thing I don't like about it is the eraser mouse in the middle of the keyboard. Sometimes I move the mouse while typing and it bugs me lol.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yayitsdan* 
I found a black model M yesterday at a computer shop. I picked it up for $10 which is a steal in my eyes. The only thing I don't like about it is the eraser mouse in the middle of the keyboard. Sometimes I move the mouse while typing and it bugs me lol.

Wow, great deal indeed! I'd love some pics. (if possible)


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Woah, dude, I think that's an Endurapro. Those are worth money! NICE find!


----------



## Maytan

^Endurapro? A Google search has a website selling 'em for $100. That'd be like 10x profit for him. (not that I'd sell it.)


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I think that was probably the modern Unicomp ones. If he has a Unicomp Endurapro, then that's worth ~$50-$75. If it's an IBM/Lexmark... I have no idea. It's worth a lot more than your typical Model M 1391401 though.


----------



## yayitsdan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Wow, great deal indeed! I'd love some pics. (if possible)


I took some quick pictures.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Mind if I ask about this board over at GeekHack? They'd probably be very interested. Or you could start an account there yourself.


----------



## yayitsdan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Mind if I ask about this board over at GeekHack? They'd probably be very interested. Or you could start an account there yourself.


Go right ahead. You guys are starting to get me interested the history of this keyboard, so make sure to post back here if you learn anything.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I think that was probably the modern Unicomp ones. If he has a Unicomp Endurapro, then that's worth ~$50-$75. If it's an IBM/Lexmark... I have no idea. It's worth a lot more than your typical Model M 1391401 though.


Interesting... I'm sort of curious as to the value now.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yayitsdan*


I took some quick pictures.

*snip*


Looks great!


----------



## yayitsdan

I was digging around a bit and found this.

http://www.mikecase.net/ModelM/Black...board-Mod.html

"Between 1995 and 1998 Lexmark and Maxi-Switch made a very few black trackpoint Model Ms for IBM like the one pictured (Model M-13, part number 13H6705). They can be hard to find, expensive (I sold the one pictured for over $300 on eBay),"

I checked the bottom of my keyboard and look at what I found.


----------



## ch_123

Part number 13H6705... The "Black M13". Used to be worth about $200 and up on eBay... Nowadays they are far more common, and you can pick up one for about $60 to $90 for a good one.

The keycaps are not made to the same standard as the white IBM keys, and wear is very common.

The black M13 was actually a good bit more common than the white and industrial models. They were made from 1994 to about 1998 or 1999.


----------



## Maytan

^Haha, wow. Looks like you might have a treasure on your hands.

And then above poster who knows far more than I do makes my post completely irrelevant.


----------



## yayitsdan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Part number 13H6705... The "Black M13". Used to be worth about $200 and up on eBay... Nowadays they are far more common, and you can pick up one for about $60 to $90 for a good one.

The keycaps are not made to the same standard as the white IBM keys, and wear is very common.

The black M13 was actually a good bit more common than the white and industrial models. They were made from 1994 to about 1998 or 1999.


Ah well that's bad news.


----------



## ch_123

I own one, and they're one of my favorites... But not to the same standard as an older model. I like it primarily for the Trackpoint.


----------



## yayitsdan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


I own one, and they're one of my favorites... But not to the same standard as an older model. I like it primarily for the Trackpoint.


It's much better than any other keyboard that I've used. I just hope it doesn't wear out anytime soon. Either way though, I got a good deal on it.


----------



## ch_123

It isn't bad as some keyboards *coughfilcocough* but they do get shiny, and the key marking start to lose definitions.

For those interested in such things - IBM keys are usually printed using dye sublimation, but dye sublimation is not good for printing white markings, so Lexmark/Maxiswitch used pad printing for their black keys... Unlike modern keyboards which have some sort of coating over their pad printed keys, these were exposed. The black colouration of the physical key itself wasn't done all that well.


----------



## yayitsdan

I'm probably going to head back to that same computer store tomorrow and see if they have any other mechanical keyboards. They just brought this one out to me and I took it without looking at any other ones that they might have had. If I find any more, I'll post back here.


----------



## yayitsdan

While I'm thinking about this, where is a good place to buy keycaps for this keyboard? I'm think it would look cool with blank key caps, but it's fine if they have characters on them too.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Both Unicomp and Fentek sell Model M keycaps of various color and labels. Not sure on prices though. Fentek has more variety, but is probably more expensive. Unicomp should mostly just have the standard keys seen on their models.


----------



## Maytan

It's here!


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Both Unicomp and Fentek sell Model M keycaps of various color and labels. Not sure on prices though. Fentek has more variety, but is probably more expensive. Unicomp should mostly just have the standard keys seen on their models.


Unicomp will sell a full blank set for $25... not sure if they have the right keycaps for the Trackpoint, but they might have.

On geekhack.org, you can sell your M13 keys, and probably make back that much.


----------



## pantalaimon

I have only ever had keyboards from the likes of Logitech and Microsoft, and have never found one I actually like. I only recently discovered that good ones even existed.

I realise the good ones aren't cheap, but what would be a good mechanical keyboard, primarily suited to gaming, that won't break the bank? I'm in the U.K, which as usual has fewer choices and higher prices when it comes to electronics.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pantalaimon*


I have only ever had keyboards from the likes of Logitech and Microsoft, and have never found one I actually like. I only recently discovered that good ones even existed.

I realise the good ones aren't cheap, but what would be a good mechanical keyboard, primarily suited to gaming, that won't break the bank? I'm in the U.K, which as usual has fewer choices and higher prices when it comes to electronics.


Look into the Steelseries 7G or the 6Gv2 if you don't want all the misc. features of the 7G.

Mechanical KBs suited to gaming would be the Cherry Blacks and Reds. Reds are rather rare though, Blacks are more common. The 7G is 115 US dollars and the 6Gv2 was supposed to be 99 US dollars. They are both worth the price tag.

I know others are going to recommend the Cherry Browns and possibly even the blues, if you want this Keyboard to be suited towards gaming ( FPS, RTS, even some MMOs ) get the Cherry Blacks, you will not regret it.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
It's here!

you sneaky bastard didn't know you ordered one


----------



## pantalaimon

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
Look into the Steelseries 7G or the 6Gv2 if you don't want all the misc. features of the 7G.

Mechanical KBs suited to gaming would be the Cherry Blacks and Reds. Reds are rather rare though, Blacks are more common. The 7G is 115 US dollars and the 6Gv2 was supposed to be 99 US dollars. They are both worth the price tag.

I know others are going to recommend the Cherry Browns and possibly even the blues, if you want this Keyboard to be suited towards gaming ( FPS, RTS, even some MMOs ) get the Cherry Blacks, you will not regret it.

Can't find the 6GV2 here. The Cherry keyboards seem to be pretty scarce too. Anybody point me in the right direction in terms of a source?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
you sneaky bastard didn't know you ordered one









Haha! I must say, I really underestimated the value of a good keyboard. Even with all the extras a side (NKRO and things) it just feels SO nice to type on. I have literally been typing out contractions just to hit more keys on the keyboard.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pantalaimon*


Can't find the 6GV2 here. The Cherry keyboards seem to be pretty scarce too. Anybody point me in the right direction in terms of a source?


Here's the 7G

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Steel-Series...4395942&sr=8-1

7G, 6Gv2, Filco Linear Force, and Deck Linear all use Black Cherry MX switches. You don't need a Cherry board specifically to have Cherry switches.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Haha! I must say, I really underestimated the value of a good keyboard. Even with all the extras a side (NKRO and things) it just feels SO nice to type on. I have literally been typing out contractions just to hit more keys on the keyboard.










glad you are happy.


----------



## pantalaimon

Â£107 is a heck of lot of money for a keyboard ($155), and I'm not too keen on the extra features of the 7G either. Are there any cheaper ones?

Thanks for the help


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pantalaimon*


Â£107 is a heck of lot of money for a keyboard ($155), and I'm not too keen on the extra features of the 7G either. Aren't there any cheaper ones?

Thanks for the help


http://www.keyboardco.co.uk


----------



## pantalaimon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


http://www.keyboardco.co.uk


That's a lot of keyboards! Which ones are good for my purposes and don't cost a fortune?


----------



## lmnop

http://www.keyboardco.co.uk is popular retailer in the UK. they carry Filco and Cherry but the Cherry keyboards are the same price or more so this is a rare instance I will recommend Filco. if you want more information on Filco go to http://elitekeyboards.com

if you are looking for a switch suited for gaming Cherry MX Black Linear switches are a good choice. if you are unsure or looking for a switch suited for both typing and gaming Cherry MX Brown switches are a safe choice.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

You could get the Filco Zero NKRO. The switches aren't the best ("***ka" black ALPS, rather than Cherry MX switches which are what most people consider best). But it's NKRO, which is good for gaming, and is better for typing than most rubber domes.

Ask people about their ABS M1s. The Filco Zero is like an ABS M1 with the numberpad removed, and all the issues with build quality eliminated, plus it has NKRO. A much better product than the ABS M1 all around, too bad they aren't available in the US anymore.

Its 47 quid w/ VAT. Best you're going to find for that money, I think.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
You could get the Filco Zero NKRO. The switches aren't the best ("***ka" black ALPS, rather than Cherry MX switches which are what most people consider best). But it's NKRO, which is good for gaming, and is better for typing than most rubber domes.

Ask people about their ABS M1s. The Filco Zero is like an ABS M1 with the numberpad removed, and all the issues with build quality eliminated, plus it has NKRO. A much better product than the ABS M1 all around, too bad they aren't available in the US anymore.

Its 47 quid w/ VAT. Best you're going to find for that money, I think.

they are XM not ***kas.


----------



## nijikon5

Gaming with the ABS M1 was bad. Even if it had better rollover capabilities, just did not like the feel of the switches whatsoever.

This is the linear model off that site: http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=647

Or you can wait for the 6Gv2.

http://www.steelseries.com/int/produ...v2/information


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
they are XM not ***kas.

How do XM compare to ***kas?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
How do XM compare to ***kas?

according to the Alps wiki at geekhack the XM are bulkier in design. they are supposed to be tactile and clicky with a white plunger. ***kas are tactile and non-clicky with a black plunger. both the Filco and ABS M1 changed to ***kas but the one sold on Keyboardco is the old model with XM.


----------



## ch_123

Nope, ***ka is the name of a company who bought Alps' Taiwanese switch factory. They churn out simplified Alps switches - both black (as used in the ABS) and white (later Filco Zeroes and some other keyboards) types. Unlike other 3rd party Alps switches, they are actually made to the same design as official Alps simplified switches so they're much better than the others.

XMs are just straight-out fake copies of the white Alps. They are considered to be absolutely dreadful, I've never heard anyone say anything remotely good about them. The only reason why you'd want one is to desolder the XMs and replace them with better Alps switches.

These were replaced with ***ka models, but they didn't sell well so neither elitekeyboads or keyboardco have them, despite the fact that they were pretty nifty keyboards for the price ($80)


----------



## lmnop

thanks

FKBN87Z/EB-Y = XM
FKBN87Z/EB = ***kas

KeyboardCo sells FKBN87Z/EB-Y

Quote:



* USB with PS/2 adapter (PS/2 must be used for full N-key Rollover)
* 87 Key US ANSI Layout
* XM White key switches with clicky mechanical feel, 3.5mm travel, 20 million actuations
* Blue LEDs
* Red "Esc" and "FILCO" keys included


----------



## ch_123

Yeah, when they came out with the ***ka models, Diatec sold B-grade XM switch Zeroes at a cut price (I think they might have been ones that people used an then returned after experiencing the horrors of XMs) and these were sold as the -Y model. They supposedly had defects, but it was often out of the way that you'd have to go out of your way to find a scratch or blemish.

When the XMs were in regular production, they didn't have the -Y suffix obviously, so it's very very difficult to figure out what you're getting if you're buying a second hand one on a place like eBay.


----------



## lmnop

I should email ABS and ask if they are going to put another mechanical keyboard on the market.


----------



## Maytan

Well, after spending some time with the keyboard, I quite love it. The only problem I have, is that the backspace appears to squeak sort-of often. I'm going to try to use it a bit more, and maybe try to work it in or something.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Well, after spending some time with the keyboard, I quite love it. The only problem I have, is that the backspace appears to squeak sort-of often. I'm going to try to use it a bit more, and maybe try to work it in or something.


try and work it, if it doesn't help inspect the stabilizer.


----------



## Maytan

I've notice it only happens as the key is ascending, never descending.

Horribly nubbish question, but where exactly is the stabilizer? I know it's under the key, but what would I be looking for?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I've notice it only happens as the key is ascending, never descending.

Horribly nubbish question, but where exactly is the stabilizer? I know it's under the key, but what would I be looking for?


see here. if you need instructions how to take keys with stabilizers off see here.


----------



## Maytan

^Thanks. Gonna' go try hitting it for a minute or two.

EDIT: Also only happens when I hit the top half of the key.

Yeah... not going away. I can feel it rubbing on something, though. Are you positive this has to do with the stabilizer?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

For the record, Ripster is a thieving, lying, cheating sunova splork who molests lego statues of George Clooney while listening to the sound of cats being put through a blender (aka, Sanjaya) I'm pretty sure he has a bizarre keyboard sexual fetish. Weeeiiiirrrrd.

He's just an all-around doo-doo head.

naaaah, just kidding, he's awesome


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
For the record, Ripster is a thieving, lying, cheating sunova splork who molests lego statues of George Clooney while listening to the sound of cats being put through a blender (aka, Sanjaya) I'm pretty sure he has a bizarre keyboard sexual fetish. Weeeiiiirrrrd.

He's just an all-around doo-doo head.

naaaah, just kidding, he's awesome









He's also got one hell of a macro lens


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
^Thanks. Gonna' go try hitting it for a minute or two.

EDIT: Also only happens when I hit the top half of the key.

Yeah... not going away. I can feel it rubbing on something, though. Are you positive this has to do with the stabilizer?

do you have any grease?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
do you have any grease?

Unfortunately, no. (unless I can use mechanical greases)I checked out those links you gave me, and there's quite a few suggestions. I don't know what would be the smartest choice.


----------



## lmnop

did you take the backspace key off to inspect it and put it back on?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
did you take the backspace key off to inspect it and put it back on?

No, I haven't. I'll do it right now, though. Two paper clips?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
No, I haven't. I'll do it right now, though. Two paper clips?

yes. paper clips, flat head screw driver, crouching tiger fist. whatever you have available


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
yes. paper clips, flat head screw driver, crouching tiger fist. whatever you have available









I'd be too worried about using a screwdriver. I'll try to find paper clips.

....and I fear my Shaolin would be too powerful and break the keyboard.


----------



## Crazy9000

I use the tab from any old pci card. You know the part you screw into the case.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I use the tab from any old pci card. You know the part you screw into the case.

I don't have of those lying around. Still on the hunt for a paper-clip. I'm still not sure I want to try this though. After re-reading that link about removing the stabilizer a few times, I'm pretty nervous and/or reluctant.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I use the tab from any old pci card. You know the part you screw into the case.

that is a good idea.

if you don't want to do this e-mail or call Metadot and RMA.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
that is a good idea.

if you don't want to do this e-mail or call Metadot and RMA.

I might just end up doing this, and hope for better luck with my next unit. I'm going to give it another day though. More time to think and/or see if it goes away I suppose.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I use the tab from any old pci card. You know the part you screw into the case.

Oh nice. Good idea. I just took the tab off an old 56k modem card I had laying around, and it works great. Lots of leverage, and lots of contact area so you don't have all the force concentrated in one place, like with a screwdriver.

Nice.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I might just end up doing this, and hope for better luck with my next unit. I'm going to give it another day though. More time to think and/or see if it goes away I suppose.

oh wait I think Thran mentioned Metadot sent him instructions how to do all this so they probably won't send you a new one.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


oh wait I think Thran mentioned Metadot sent him instructions how to do all this so they probably won't send you a new one.


That's fine. I won't mind having to do it if I absolutely have to. I'll just have to swallow it and jump for it, eh?

EDIT: sent a message to Metadot, we'll see what happens. It's really a shame that one key can cause all this. I really love this thing.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


That's fine. I won't mind having to do it if I absolutely have to. I'll just have to swallow it and jump for it, eh?

EDIT: sent a message to Metadot, we'll see what happens. It's really a shame that one key can cause all this. I really love this thing.










I had this same problem too on my Backspace key. Make sure you take off the surrounding keys. It's really easier than it sounds, just be gentle. There was a really good vid on YouTube of a Korean guy taking off a Keycap off stabilizer bars.


----------



## Maytan

^What'd you use for lube?


----------



## lmnop

J Lube. kidding. any silicone grease should do.


----------



## Maytan

OH! I've got that! (I think) Any suggestions on usage? (where to apply/how much to apply)

I'll refer to those guides, too.


----------



## lmnop

men always use to much lube, sigh. that would be a start.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


men always use to much lube, sigh. that would be a start.


Great, now when I go to lube my keyboard I'm going to think of what you said and start laughing uncontrollably. (resulting in a big mess of grease all over the darned thing.) D:


----------



## lmnop

you only need a rice grain or finger tip, don't use to much. I have never had to deal with squeaks so either I have lady luck or the power of jesus on my side either way i'm not complaining.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


you only need a rice grain or finger tip, don't use to much. I have never had to deal with squeaks so either I have lady luck or the power of jesus on my side either way i'm not complaining.


I've never had a squeaking problem either, if that means anything lol.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I've never had a squeaking problem either, if that means anything lol.


do you own any Costar keyboards? I think Adam at Deck test every key before he ships.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


you only need a rice grain or finger tip, don't use to much. I have never had to deal with squeaks so either I have lady luck or the power of jesus on my side either way i'm not complaining.


Haha! Lucky you. (pun intended. If you could call that a pun... eh.. nevermind...)


----------



## Crazy9000

I have a Das keyboard, I believe that's what Maytan is having the issue with. Mine is an older model though.


----------



## lmnop

same. I bet Metadot prints out a sticker and slaps it on the box, throws it in the mail. oh well it's only a squeak you will fix it.


----------



## Maytan

I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight. Too busy thinking about this keyboard. Arghhh.


----------



## pantalaimon

I lost you guys after the '***ka' part.







Is there a ~Â£50 alternative to the likes of the 6GV2? Or shall I wait and save up for one of these ~Â£100 ones


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pantalaimon*


I lost you guys after the '***ka' part.







Is there a ~Â£50 alternative to the likes of the 6GV2? Or shall I wait and save up for one of these ~Â£100 ones


if you live in the UK your options are pretty limited.


----------



## lmnop

Metadot revamped their online store.

http://store.daskeyboard.com/

to celebrate this they have a 15% off promo code: *DASKC3NI *


----------



## Maytan

^words cannot describe.


----------



## Marin

So, why did they get rid of the media keys on the Das keyboards?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


So, why did they get rid of the media keys on the Das keyboards?


they won't say. people emailed, checked blog. nothing.


----------



## Marin

That's lame.


----------



## pantalaimon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


if you live in the UK your options are pretty limited.


Yep







I was going to try and have one posted from the States, but consider import duty, handling fees, VAT (a 17.5% tax), ~$50 in postage costs and warranties and it begins to look like a very bad idea.

To be honest I'm finding it pretty hard to bring myself to spend more than Â£50 on a keyboard, but if the only alternative is some crappy Logitech then I'll have no choice.


----------



## lmnop

import what? Asia is where you want to order from.


----------



## pantalaimon

Asia? Whereabouts? Please tell me more


----------



## lmnop

where do you think mechanical keyboards are manufactured? Asia has many clones and rare mechanical keyboards on the market.


----------



## pantalaimon

I really am clueless. That's why I'm here.


----------



## Maytan

_One other thing the Das has going for it is excellent customer support from Metadot. When I originally purchased mine, it arrived with what I presume where mis-printed J and K keys, because the raised "nub" was on the K key, while the J was smooth. Needless to say, this drove me nuts for touch typing. Metadot immediately offered to ship me replacement keys for free, or exchange the entire board if I was not comfortable pulling keys (lol). Very nice people._ -bionicroach @ Geek Hack

Perhaps there's hope for my anxiety.


----------



## Crazy9000

Wasn't there a user here who had a bad experience with their support though? Maybe you should contact support and see how it goes to break the tie.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Wasn't there a user here who had a bad experience with their support though? Maybe you should contact support and see how it goes to break the tie.

Yeah, I contacted them. Waiting for reply. (support is prolly out till tomorrow)


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pantalaimon* 
I really am clueless. That's why I'm here.

I would buy the Filco TenKeyLess Linear Action. it should be cheaper than the steelseries 6gv2 when it comes out if you really need your number pad buy the steelseries 6gv2.


----------



## lmnop

looks like ABS is out of the game.

Quote:

Dear Christine,

Thank you for contacting ABS.

We humbly apologize for the inconvenience that may have caused you.

Please kindly note that we do not have other models or any comparable mechanical keyboard for our customer right now.

Thank you for your understanding on this matter. If you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us.

Sincerely,

Sissi

ABS Support


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
looks like ABS is out of the game.

No wonder they had that sale at newegg, they were dumping their stock.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
No wonder they had that sale at newegg, they were dumping their stock.

yes. ABS M1 is discontinued. like the Filco Zero I don't really see it being circulated on eBay. should remove it from the list and use it's slot for something else.


----------



## GeforceGTS

Weren't newegg offering refunds on the M1's because of the transposition issues? Pretty sure I read that somewhere, that probably had something to do with the sale too


----------



## lmnop

I don't know about that. would be nice to see a quality Alps keyboard in the future.

here is some more info and photos of the yet to be named Thermaltake Mechanical Keyboard under their eSports lineup.

Glossy Finish


















USB 2.0 Port, Microphone Jack, Headphone Jack


















Military Grade Nylon Cord. _this is the thickest USB cord I have ever seen._


----------



## Manyak

I'm curious as to see what the construction of that thing will be like. Most of TT's products are made as cheaply as all hell. Very thin and flimsy plastics and what not.


----------



## KipH

Oh Oh. I will get to see that one at Computex in a few weeks. Thermaltake would not let me have one of the black true CPU coolers so they owe me one right







Wonder what I could bribe them with to let me have one or 2


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
I'm curious as to see what the construction of that thing will be like. Most of TT's products are made as cheaply as all hell. Very thin and flimsy plastics and what not.

it's another steelseries 7G but that cord is gnarly.


----------



## [cold]Fusion

Sorry if this has already been asked but I tried searching and couldn't find anything.

Are there any mechanical keyboards with low profile keys? I really prefer low profile keys for typing and gaming but can't seem to find one that I like the look of.


----------



## lmnop

nope. only scissor and cherry ml switches.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Cherry G84 boards have low-profile Cherry ML switches. They're decent.


----------



## clownfart

It looks way cheaper than the 7G. The pictures don't help though.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
it's another steelseries 7G but that cord is gnarly.

Yeah, but unlike the 7g it has a standard enter and backslash key. So it fixes the one problem that brings the 7g down for most people.

But I hate Thermaltake, so...


----------



## yayitsdan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Both Unicomp and Fentek sell Model M keycaps of various color and labels. Not sure on prices though. Fentek has more variety, but is probably more expensive. Unicomp should mostly just have the standard keys seen on their models.


Can you link my to the place where Unicomp sells the blank keys? I can't find it for the life of me.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yayitsdan*


Can you link my to the place where Unicomp sells the blank keys? I can't find it for the life of me.


There's no link. In the checkout comments just ask them to add a set of black blank keys for $20.

Or give them a call, they're pretty nice guys there


----------



## yayitsdan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


There's no link. In the checkout comments just ask them to add a set of black blank keys for $20.

Or give them a call, they're pretty nice guys there










So that's why I couldn't find it. Thanks







.

Just curious, what keyboard do use?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yayitsdan*


So that's why I couldn't find it. Thanks







.

Just curious, what keyboard do use?


Filco 104 NKRO w/ Blues

And soon a deck legend too, most likely...but I'll be switching the springs of the Blacks out with Browns, to make them like Reds.

If you're wondering why two keyboards, look at my monitors.


----------



## yayitsdan

That make sense lol. I've been using a g15 for the longest time. This new keyboard is like a breath of fresh air.

I'm relatively new to mechanical keyboards (as you can probably tell). Is it easy to replace the switches (or springs if I'm understanding this right). Is it likely that I will have to do that for maintenance or anything?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yayitsdan*


That make sense lol. I've been using a g15 for the longest time. This new keyboard is like a breath of fresh air.

I'm relatively new to mechanical keyboards (as you can probably tell). Is it easy to replace the switches (or springs if I'm understanding this right). Is it likely that I will have to do that for maintenance or anything?


It's _very_ easy, it's just a matter of soldering/desoldering two contact points. You can just swap switches out with less-used keys on your board (like scroll lock), or buy replacement switches from digi-key for between $0.50-$1.00 per switch depending on which type you have.

But no it's not likely you'll have to do it, at least not for many, many years.

Switching the springs, like I intend to do, doesn't fix anything. It just changes the feel of the switch. MX Blacks are pretty stiff, so I want to swap their spring with a lighter one. Basically making them the equivalent of MX Reds, except since you can't really find them here in the US I gotta do it this way.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



| Hi Nathanael,
|
| I'm sorry you are having trouble with your keyboard, however I will be happy to assist you with an exchange.
|
| Please send your keyboard and all accessories to:
|
| Das Keyboard
| Attn: EMA ******** (censored







)
| 9020 North Capital of Texas Highway
| Bldg 1, Suite 365
| Austin, TX 78759
|
| ***Please print this correspondence and include in your shipment.
| ***Keyboard must be received within 30 days of this number assignment.
| 
| The keyboard must be properly packed for shipping. If damage occurs as a result of improper packaging your exchange may be affected. For more details on the EMA process please review here: http://www.daskeyboard.com/guarantee.php
| 
| All keyboards are tested before replacements are sent. Replacement keyboards are typically shipped within five (5) business days of receiving the keyboard.
|
| Kind regards,
|
| Erin


Thank you Metadot!


----------



## Crazy9000

I find it ironic when a keyboard company makes a typo lol. (EMA not RMA).


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I find it ironic when a keyboard company makes a typo lol. (EMA not RMA).



Quote:



We will provide you with a RMA number for refund or an EMA number for repair and exchange


^Actually, Metadot is a bit different.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I find it ironic when a keyboard company makes a typo lol. (EMA not RMA).


Perhaps they were using their own keyboards.

*troll smile*


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Perhaps they were using their own keyboards.

*troll smile*


I lol'd.


----------



## Artemis

Just got my Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless Tactile Click "Otaku" today! Im loving it, so much better to type and even game on then my crappy Logitech g11. This keyboard is pure sex. Here are some pics:








































Sorry about quality taken with my phone camera.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
^Actually, Metadot is a bit different.

What the heck does EMA mean then? lol. RMA simply is return material authorization, which fits perfectly for both situations :l.


----------



## Maytan

Yeah, that's true. I think it means exchange, though. (as opposed to return) They got a bit more specific about it.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
What the heck does EMA mean then? lol. RMA simply is return material authorization, which fits perfectly for both situations :l.

Exchanged Material Authorization.

It's used when just a small piece is broken. An RMA Is usually when the whole item is broken and needs to be shipped back.

Though, say you get a bad backplate to PCI/PCIe card on a server, you won't RMA the server as a whole, just EMA the bracket:

IE: they send you a new bracket and you fix it yourself.


----------



## Manyak

<<<< Post # 4000









Edit: Crap, I miscounted, it's 4001.....maybe I should just delete an old useless reply


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
<<<< Post # 4000









Edit: Crap, I miscounted, it's 4001.....maybe I should just delete an old useless reply









4000th Reply TO the thread
4001th Reply IN the thread


----------



## Marin

I just realized how useless illuminated keys have been for me since I touch type. This also makes me wonder, do the majority of gamers want a feature they have no use for or can they just not type properly?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


I just realized how useless illuminated keys have been for me since I touch type. This also makes me wonder, do the majority of gamers want a features they have no use for or can they just not type properly?


I Guess they can't type properly but I like the cosmetics. I always put up Christmas lights in my room during the holidays.


----------



## Maytan

How much do you guys suppose this keyboard will be to ship to Texas?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


How much do you guys suppose this keyboard will be to ship to Texas?


what keyboard?


----------



## Marin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


what keyboard?


You know, that keyboard.









Anyways, it's his Das. He's talking about it a page back.


----------



## Alpstouch

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


yes. ABS M1 is discontinued. like the Filco Zero I don't really see it being circulated on eBay. should remove it from the list and use it's slot for something else.


It's really a shame to see another Alps product disappear. Which now leaves Matias and Solidtek the only KB with Alps Switches available. It's obvious that Cherry MX switches are dominating the market of mechanical keyboards, but I felt Alps switches deserve more product recognition and market support. Personally, I'd like to see ***ka the sole maker of Alps copies continue to survive for as long as it takes.


----------



## Marin

I thought the M1 used Alps copies?

Nevermind, I didn't read your post right.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The M1 is discontinued. As is the Filco Zero.


----------



## Marin

Explains why Newegg was selling it for $20. Glad I picked one up.


----------



## lmnop

alps fans should enjoy this.

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6333

megarat did a really nice job.


----------



## Marin

104 or 87 key layout? At the moment I can't see a reason for me to stick with the 104 key layout for my next purchase.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


104 or 87 key layout? At the moment I can't see a reason for me to stick with the 104 key layout for my next purchase.


87 key layout have some benefits (over reach, ulnar deviation)

if you wanted to you could probably make your own number pad with freeware like AutoHotKey. set a key to enable and disable a script that would set your 7, 8, 9, -, u, i, o, [, j, k, etc as the number pad like the Topre.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I find it ironic when a keyboard company makes a typo lol. (EMA not RMA).


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
What the heck does EMA mean then? lol. RMA simply is return material authorization, which fits perfectly for both situations :l.

Actually, the "M" stands for "Merchandise". So it would be both "Return Merchandise Authorization" and "Exchange Merchandise Authorization".


----------



## Alpstouch

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
alps fans should enjoy this.

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6333

megarat did a really nice job.

megarat did a really nice job.[/QUOTE]Thanks for sharing. The Filco Zero really should have been all equipped with ***ka Whites instead of the tighter-springed XM Whites. A terrible mistake on Filco's part. They definitely are content with the sales of KBs with Cherry switches. Since it's easier and more profitable to sell the KBs w/Cherry switches, why bother with the less popular switches like Alps. They have underestimated the tactile feel and marketability of ***ka Alps (I'm tired of saying "copies" since Alps Japan has chosen to give up the rights.).

I have collected a few of last generations of KBs w/***ka Alps, and they (except M1) definitely have a much different (perhaps better) feel than the early ones. And they don't click as loud, either. I'm talking about a KB w/Alps that has the kind of delicate tactile feel good enough to compete with the Cherrys. Yes, even with the ever so popular Cherry MX Brown. This might sound like fan's talk, but it's true if you're fortunate like me to meet those KBs by accident.


----------



## Volcom13

What makes the Cherry MX Blues much less desirable for gaming when compared to the Cherry MX Browns and Blacks?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Volcom13*


What makes the Cherry MX Blues much less desirable for gaming when compared to the Cherry MX Browns and Blacks?


see here. the reset point is higher than the actuation point in Cherry MX Blue switches, it makes double tapping for sprinting, strafing and jumping annoying because you have to lift your finger off the key.


----------



## TwoCables

Or go here:

http://elitekeyboards.com/support.php#1a


----------



## KipH

Welcome Volcom13. I told you TwoCables would type a lot didn't I









The blues are not as good for gaming because its not easy to double tap them. Its about that simple when you get down to it. On of the choices you were looking at has Browns. Thats what I got and they are good for both. Blue = typing. Black = gaming. Brown = fairly good at both.


----------



## Rapid7

Nice to see so many fans of mechanical keyboards









I've been using a Raptor K1 for 4-5 years now and it's the best keyboard i've ever owned.Just managed to pick a brand new up off ebay for Â£10.00 as the person had listed it in the wrong section,should keep me going for a while.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

I got a Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch NKRO Otaku with Cherry Browns two weeks ago... in love with it.

I'm trying to decide if I should keep my ABS M1 as a backup or give it away to a person who missed out on the deal


----------



## Marin

What Cherry switch would the M1's switch compare to the most in terms of actuating and reset point?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
What Cherry switch would the M1's switch compare to the most in terms of actuating and reset point?

MX Reds or MX Blacks.

The difference between the two is the force needed.


----------



## lmnop

Cherry MX Red are Linear 45g 2/4mm
***kas are Tactile 60g 1.5/3.5mm
*Cherry MX Clear are Tactile 55g 2/4mm*


----------



## nijikon5

Cherry 3494 has finally shipped, will post pics once it gets here.


----------



## lmnop

congratulations









*Edit*: how did you order it?


----------



## cp2010

Hi guys,

Just want to let you know I now have a Red Cherry MX keyboard. Typing wise, this is the best of the bunch that I have tried, 10x better than the blacks for typing and slightly more comfortable than the brown's. Very light to the touch yet bouncy enough for gaming. Though I still think the blacks in the end are better for game, the reds is really the true jack of all trades.

Lastly, I just want to say that the G80-3494 keyboard has a somewhat cheap feel to it. Though the key action is fine, the keyboard is very light. In comparison, the Steelseries 7G weight x5 the weight of one of these cherry boards. Also the keycaps are not as good as the Steelseries ones, they are too slippery and are somewhat low profile. This is probably a personal preference. I now have filco keycaps on the G80 keyboard and it works pretty well (though the 7G's keycaps were the best of the bunch but I had to return the whole thing).


----------



## lmnop

of course it weighs more it has a multimedia hub and wrist rest.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


of course it weighs more it has a multimedia hub and wrist rest.


Not to mention the wrist rest is like half the weight.


----------



## cp2010

Without the rest, the 7G weights quite a bit, that's for sure (the wristrest for the 7G isn't all that heavy, the board itself weights a ton). In comparison, the Cherry Red KB is very light. Not that it is a bad thing; some may prefer it this way.


----------



## Crazy9000

Where\\how did you get the keyboard with the reds?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cp2010*


Without the rest, the 7G weights quite a bit, that's for sure (the wristrest for the 7G isn't all that heavy, the board itself weights a ton). In comparison, the Cherry Red KB is very light. Not that it is a bad thing; some may prefer it this way.












that is the USB controller in the old Das Model, now add 2 more multimedia ports and 3 cables.

Cherry G80-3494 weighs 3lbs, steelseries 7G weighs 5.7lbs


----------



## cp2010

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Where\\how did you get the keyboard with the reds?


I used google translator to browse my way through a Taiwanese electronic store's webshop. Found the owner's email and asked if he was willing to help (which evidently he did; he was extremely accommodating to deal with as well!).

I don't know all the forum rules so I won't list his details here but you can pm me if you are interested.

The total cost of this board for me was $180 CAD with shipping (7 days).


----------



## cp2010

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*











that is the USB controller in the old Das Model, now add 2 more multimedia ports and 3 cables.

Cherry G80-3494 weighs 3lbs, steelseries 7G weighs 5.7lbs


Yeah I guess that's true. A hub does add some weight. I myself prefer a heavy keyboard but thus far this is the only Red MX board I could find so I'm more than happy for now. But if a cherry Red equivalent of a 7G does appear I would jump on it instantly.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Where\\how did you get the keyboard with the reds?


Ebay, I bought a Cherry G80-3600 on ebay for about $50 shipped from China with MX Reds in it.

Right now I'm trying to find a Cherry MX Clear board.


----------



## lmnop

5.7lbs is the box weight. look at those cables. to put things into perspective.

Quote:



SteelSeries Xai
総重量(コード込み):146g Total weight (including cord): 146g
コードを抜いた重量:94g Removed the cord weight: 94g


I tried to find out the weight of the 6gv2 but I can't find it. that will tell you how much the 7g weighs.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


congratulations









*Edit*: how did you order it?


My cousin in China purchased it and shipped it.


----------



## Marin

Seems like the ABS M1 is the new gateway drug to mechanical keyboards. I went ahead and ordered this and this.









I'm planning to get another one with MX Blacks towards the end of summer when I move into my apartment. So I'll have a keyboard for typing (hooked up to my laptop) and a keyboard for gaming.


----------



## Alpstouch

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cp2010*


Lastly, I just want to say that the G80-3494 keyboard has a somewhat cheap feel to it. Though the key action is fine, the keyboard is very light. In comparison, the Steelseries 7G weight x5 the weight of one of these cherry boards. Also the keycaps are not as good as the Steelseries ones, they are too slippery and are somewhat low profile. This is probably a personal preference. I now have filco keycaps on the G80 keyboard and it works pretty well (though the 7G's keycaps were the best of the bunch but I had to return the whole thing).


Lightness has been a major complaint of Cherry-made KBs because Cherry has its own unique way to mount the switches directly to the PCB. Other OEM companies include Costar (maker of Filco and Das) have a metal plate mounted between the switches and the PCB, which added some weight and sturdiness to the KB. I'm not sure why OEM companies chose to mount it that way because the switches they ordered from Cherry weren't the same as ones Cherry uses for making its own KBs. A patent issue perhaps.

As for the keycaps, the Steelseries ones are made of ABS which are inferior to the POM or PBT ones made by Cherry. However, better keycap quality doesn't necessarily reflect on its feel of touch. It's again up to the personal preference.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alpstouch*


Lightness has been a major complaint of Cherry-made KBs because Cherry has its own unique way to mount the switches directly to the PCB. Other OEM companies include Costar (maker of Filco and Das) have a metal plate mounted between the switches and the PCB, which added some weight and sturdiness to the KB. I'm not sure why OEM companies chose to mount it that way because the switches they ordered from Cherry weren't the same as ones Cherry uses for making its own KBs. A patent issue perhaps.

As for the keycaps, the Steelseries ones are made of ABS which are inferior to the POM or PBT ones made by Cherry. However, better keycap quality doesn't necessarily reflect on its feel of touch. It's again up to the personal preference.


Other companies _can_ order the PCB-mounted switches that have the two extra stabilizing posts. You can even get them yourself at digikey. And in reality, it's very possible to get a better typing experience without a plate than with a crappily contructed one.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alpstouch*


Lightness has been a major complaint of Cherry-made KBs because Cherry has its own unique way to mount the switches directly to the PCB. Other OEM companies include Costar (maker of Filco and Das) have a metal plate mounted between the switches and the PCB, which added some weight and sturdiness to the KB. I'm not sure why OEM companies chose to mount it that way because the switches they ordered from Cherry weren't the same as ones Cherry uses for making its own KBs. A patent issue perhaps.

As for the keycaps, the Steelseries ones are made of ABS which are inferior to the POM or PBT ones made by Cherry. However, better keycap quality doesn't necessarily reflect on its feel of touch. It's again up to the personal preference.


Cherry MX Red Linear in the Cherry G80-3494 are plate mounted. it weighs 3lbs which is more than the Filco.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
I just realized how useless illuminated keys have been for me since I touch type. This also makes me wonder, do the majority of gamers want a feature they have no use for or can they just not type properly?

Pretty much the only reason I like the illumination on my Razer (calm down, replacing it soon, no idea with what) is for these symbols #$%^&* I can never remember the order so I have to look down, and the illumination is nice at that point, although usually now that I think of it my 3 monitors provide enough light to see by.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kamakazi* 
Pretty much the only reason I like the illumination on my Razer (calm down, replacing it soon, no idea with what) is for these symbols #$%^&* I can never remember the order so I have to look down, and the illumination is nice at that point, although usually now that I think of it my 3 monitors provide enough light to see by.

Razer and a few other folks offer a Keyboard lamp as well.


----------



## Tator Tot

Also, I was wondering if anyone could help me find a Mech board with the US International layout?

Switch type not so important, as long as it's mechanical and not cheap (quality wise.)


----------



## ch_123

The closest thing I can think of is the Matias Tactile Pro, which is a Mac keyboard that has the characters for the Mac equivalent of US International printed on the keys. For PC keyboards, I can say with 99% certainty that there's no commercially made mechanical PC keyboard with a full US Int layout printed on it's keycaps.

Unicomp, maker of the modern IBM Model Ms do a custom key printing service and could theoretically make a full set for you, but their custom printing service is quite expensive and would probably be prohibitively expensive to deck out a large part of the keyboard with custom keycaps.

Do what I do - get a standard US keyboard and learn off where the symbols go, or print out that picture till you get used to it.


----------



## Tator Tot

If a board doesn't have AltGr you can't use US Int layout.

Instead you have to use Alt + Numpad

IE: ALT + 123 = {
or ALT + 456 = ╚
ALT + 896 = Ã‡


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


If a board doesn't have AltGr you can't use US Int layout.

Instead you have to use Alt + Numpad

IE: ALT + 123 = {
or ALT + 456 = ╚
ALT + 896 = Ã‡


I'm pretty sure you can change the layout of the board in windows, and it'll just use the normal alt and the letter or something like that.


----------



## Crazy9000

BTW, looking at that mac keyboard, I wonder if their description meets TwoCables' approval?







http://www.matias.ca/tactilepro3/

Quote:



No ghost in this machine.
Most keyboards allow only a certain number of keys to be pressed at once, and often cannot keep up with very fast typists. The result is called ghosting - letters missing from what you actually typed, or additional letters that you didn't type.

The Tactile Pro has special Anti-Ghosting Circuitry *(also called n-key rollover)* to eliminate these problems. You can type as fast as you're able; the Tactile Pro will keep up.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I'm pretty sure you can change the layout of the board in windows, and it'll just use the normal alt and the letter or something like that.


I was under the impression that it wouldn't work like that and AltGr was setup differently.

Though if I'm wrong, I'd just be looking for custom keycaps then.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I'm pretty sure you can change the layout of the board in windows, and it'll just use the normal alt and the letter or something like that.


Yes, this will work. Windows will just translate the RAlt scancode into AltGr (AltGr used to be Ctrl+Alt, but that kind of died).

And you can get stick-on labels and put them either on the top or front of the key to help you out with them.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


BTW, looking at that mac keyboard, I wonder if their description meets TwoCables' approval?







http://www.matias.ca/tactilepro3/


Heh. Very clever.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Heh. Very clever.










I am curious though, do you think that it's better that they went through the effort of trying to explain it all out like that, or do you still think they are misleading the consumer?

I really liked that definition of ghosting, because then Anti-ghosting actually makes sense as a term, while it still applies to the keyboards that add in keys.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I am curious though, do you think that it's better that they went through the effort of trying to explain it all out like that, or do you still think they are misleading the consumer?

I really liked that definition of ghosting, because then Anti-ghosting actually makes sense as a term, while it still applies to the keyboards that add in keys.


Yeah, of course I have problems with that product page, and of course I'd change many things about it. What would I change? Meh... it's not worth discussing because I bet you already know what I'd change. But I will say this: I can't be the only person who sometimes uses Product Pages to do research on something I'm buying. Therefore, people like me depend on the truthfulness and accuracy of Product Pages to learn about the product.

When I came to the Mechanical Keyboard Guide for the first time, I kept calling it Anti-Ghosting because that's what all of the major manufacturers call it. It was very hard for me to believe that the correct term was N-Key Rollover, or perhaps possibly _"Improved Key Rollover"_ such as with the Microsoft Sidewinder X4. Every time was corrected, I just secretly arrogantly rolled my eyes and blew it off. I even remember Manyak (and maybe a couple of others) having difficulty in convincing me. But if manufacturers weren't using the term _"Anti-Ghosting"_, and if they were telling the truth (thereby educating their customers), then there would have been no trouble at all. I mean, I fought against it at first. I wanted to say, _"No, you're wrong. These manufacturer's product pages clearly state.... etc."_

So what am I saying? I'm saying that I don't like the idea that one or more of us will have to run into somebody who's more stubborn than I was who will say, _"No, you're all wrong. Microsoft says that it's Anti-Ghosting. None of you know what you're talking about."_

But I guess I'm being selfish because I don't want the possibility of having to go through that nonsense. I'd much rather only have to spend the time trying to explain to people why mechanical keyboards can be far superior to membrane boards like the G15 or Lycosa. But instead, I sometimes also have to spend a bunch of effort and energy explaining the truth regarding what _"Anti-Ghosting"_ really is.

So perhaps I should be grateful because it's just one more thing that I can use to show how elite people can be due to knowing all of these secrets.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I was under the impression that it wouldn't work like that and AltGr was setup differently.

Though if I'm wrong, I'd just be looking for custom keycaps then.

As I said in my last post, I use US International on a standard US keyboard. As pointed out above, the layout is controlled by the OS.


----------



## lmnop

pg 13: ch's IBM Wiki is great.

adult: ch's IBM Wiki makes my strapon bust concrete.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


adult: ch's IBM Wiki makes my strapon bust concrete.


Glad to be of service ;]


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
adult: ch's IBM Wiki makes my strapon bust concrete.

I'm not even going to ask. . .


----------



## cp2010

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alpstouch*


Lightness has been a major complaint of Cherry-made KBs because Cherry has its own unique way to mount the switches directly to the PCB. Other OEM companies include Costar (maker of Filco and Das) have a metal plate mounted between the switches and the PCB, which added some weight and sturdiness to the KB. I'm not sure why OEM companies chose to mount it that way because the switches they ordered from Cherry weren't the same as ones Cherry uses for making its own KBs. A patent issue perhaps.

As for the keycaps, the Steelseries ones are made of ABS which are inferior to the POM or PBT ones made by Cherry. However, better keycap quality doesn't necessarily reflect on its feel of touch. It's again up to the personal preference.


Yes, that is true about the keycaps. I personally could care less about the quality of the material (I'm sure they all wear out eventually anyhow). The only that matters is the shape and the feel. I think that's why the 7G was very comfortable to use for games; its keys are "square" shaped, leaving very little gap or space between each key (important for the WASD cluster) and increasing the surface in which each key provides.

If it weren't for typing reasons I would have kept the 7G. The thing was very sturdy and felt like a "joystick" more than a keyboard.


----------



## lmnop

POM doesn't. it's stronger and lighter than ABS and abrasion proof. they make water blocks out of it for crying out loud.


----------



## nijikon5

Christine, how's POM v. PBT? Just looking at pics, seems like POM is thicker than PBT?


----------



## lmnop

the POM Keycap for the G80-3494 is thicker than the PBT Keycaps for the Topre and Deck but not thicker than any of the PBT Keycaps for IBM.

you can thank ripster for that. he measured them in his key reference.

POM is stronger than PBT. it's more dense, higher breaking strength and abrasion properties. PBT is stronger than ABS and has good thermal properties. PBT is good enough POM is probably overkill.


----------



## Marin

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=10075

What an awesome thread. Lets slam OCN, gloat about ourselves and not bother helping out.'

EDIT: Serious post got their attention.









I did good: http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=187466&postcount=83


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=10075

What an awesome thread. Lets slam OCN, gloat about ourselves and not bother helping out.

They are right though, that thread is incredibly misinformed. I wish we could just delete it, people are going to find it on google and get bad information, and it will have come from OCN. :/


----------



## Marin

Of course the thread is full of misinformation but the Geekhack members aren't really helping anyone by complaining in that thread.


----------



## ch_123

Actually, people from Geekhack posted far more useful tests in that keyboard test thread which people ignored.

There are also a good few Geekhack people who post around here, myself included.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Actually, people from Geekhack posted far more useful tests in that keyboard test thread which people ignored.

There are also a good few Geekhack people who post around here, myself included.

Because they should have made a new thread.
One post in a thread that moves that fast isn't going to mean much.

On a side note, Geekhack = full of immature idiots? Look I can generalize too.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
On a side note, Geekhack = full of immature idiots?

Definitely, no argument there.


----------



## Marin

nvm


----------



## ripster

Quote:

On a side note, Geekhack = full of immature idiots? Look I can generalize too.
I agree with Tatertot!

He at least laughs at my jokes.


----------



## nijikon5

My Cherry Red board has come in, yay

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5535443_n.jpg


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


My Cherry Red board has come in, yay

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5535443_n.jpg


Grats man!

Are you plannin on doin a switch swap?


----------



## lmnop

nice


----------



## Manyak

Sweet


----------



## ch_123

Does it have NKRO?


----------



## lmnop

yeah it does.


----------



## nijikon5

So far, I can really feel the lightness of the reds. It just feels less resistant than the blacks. The space bar, enter, and backspace also feels as if it has a lot more spring to it.


----------



## ch_123

How does it compare to a Brown board? Is it the same without the tactility?


----------



## lmnop

how do you like the PBT keycaps? Cherry MX Red Linear are poor man Topre.


----------



## ch_123

Keytronic is a poor man's Topre.

Topre aren't nearly as linear as some people make them out to be.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Keytronic is a poor man's Topre.

Topre aren't nearly as linear as some people make them out to be.


couple Asian reviews I translated all said so. just telling you what I read.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


how do you like the PBT keycaps? Cherry MX Red Linear are poor man Topre.


I actually really like these caps. More so than the ones on the 7G and Filco.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


I actually really like these caps. More so than the ones on the 7G and Filco.


nice. you got it pretty fast. how much did it cost you?


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


nice. you got it pretty fast. how much did it cost you?


Actually, I don't know. My cousin wouldn't let me pay for it. It was a gift.

EMS is blazing fast, it was sent from Shanghai on the 5/24.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Actually, I don't know. My cousin wouldn't let me pay for it. It was a gift.

EMS is blazing fast, it was sent from Shanghai on the 5/24.


aww. well I hope you like it


----------



## lmnop

check this backlit scissor switch keyboard the Zippy BL-741


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
My Cherry Red board has come in, yay

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5535443_n.jpg

Whoa, congratulations! How does this feel in comparison to the Tactile Touch?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
Actually, I don't know. My cousin wouldn't let me pay for it. It was a gift.

EMS is blazing fast, it was sent from Shanghai on the 5/24.

You have an awesome cousin, man!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
check this backlit scissor switch keyboard the Zippy BL-741

Whoa, six different colors in one keyboard! Plus, it uses the scissor-switches. Nice!


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I wonder if this Zippy is in any way related to the Zippy that makes power supplies...


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I wonder if this Zippy is in any way related to the Zippy that makes power supplies...


I think it's this one


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I think it's this one










gahhhh noooo.... it's happening. This thread is turning into geekhack. Pretty soon we'll all be posting random off topic pics every other post.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I wonder if this Zippy is in any way related to the Zippy that makes power supplies...


I was actually wondering the same thing!

*Edit:* It is: http://www.zippy.com.tw/K_Product_de...rds&lv_rfnbr=2


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Whoa, congratulations! How does this feel in comparison to the Tactile Touch?

You have an awesome cousin, man!

Whoa, six different colors in one keyboard! Plus, it uses the scissor-switches. Nice!


Are you in college yet TwoCables? You are going to do excellent on research papers!

Anyways, I have a Linear Force, but I've tried my friends Tactile Touch. It feels as light and responsive as the Tactile Touch, but no bump. It pretty much feels like lighter blacks ( which it is ), it's so effortless to type now. I don't like the space bar, it's almost too light. The other guy on here who says this Cherry KB doesn't feel as sturdy as the Filco or 7G is spot on. It is actually noticeably lighter, I'd have to say by at least a pound to pound and a half. Overall, I'm really loving the reds and the PBT key caps.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I was actually wondering the same thing!

*Edit:* It is: http://www.zippy.com.tw/K_Product_de...rds&lv_rfnbr=2


It would look to be so:
http://www.zippy.com.tw/index.asp?lv_rfnbr=2


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Are you in college yet TwoCables? You are going to do excellent on research papers!


Doh.














lol

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Anyways, I have a Linear Force, but I've tried my friends Tactile Touch. It feels as light and responsive as the Tactile Touch, but no bump. It pretty much feels like lighter blacks ( which it is ), it's so effortless to type now. I don't like the space bar, it's almost too light. The other guy on here who says this Cherry KB doesn't feel as sturdy as the Filco or 7G is spot on. It is actually noticeably lighter, I'd have to say by at least a pound to pound and a half. Overall, I'm really loving the reds and the PBT key caps.


Oooo, it sounds nice!


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
Are you in college yet TwoCables? You are going to do excellent on research papers!

Anyways, I have a Linear Force, but I've tried my friends Tactile Touch. It feels as light and responsive as the Tactile Touch, but no bump. It pretty much feels like lighter blacks ( which it is ), it's so effortless to type now. I don't like the space bar, it's almost too light. The other guy on here who says this Cherry KB doesn't feel as sturdy as the Filco or 7G is spot on. It is actually noticeably lighter, I'd have to say by at least a pound to pound and a half. Overall, I'm really loving the reds and the PBT key caps.

can't be. steelseries 7g is one thing but the Filco weighs 2.6lbs. G80-3494 weighs 3lbs. maybe it's the large profile. glad you like the PBT Keycaps I played with PBT Keycaps on a Compaq I liked the texture.


----------



## ch_123

Attachment 157419

Click to enlarge... Double shots from a Dolch/Cherry G80-1813HFU


----------



## KipH

computex is full of computers
I will be here next Saturday. If there is anything you want me to check out, photo or try and beg to buy let me know.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Attachment 157419

Click to enlarge... Double shots from a Dolch/Cherry G80-1813HFU


do you have the power of jesus on your side? it's too bright!


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


computex is full of computers
I will be here next Saturday. If there is anything you want me to check out, photo or try and beg to buy let me know.


Go to the Antec booth and get pics of all the power supplies for me, please.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


do you have the power of jesus on your side? it's too bright!


I do, but in this instance, it was the overpowering flash on the camera I was using.


----------



## Marin

http://www.computextaipei.com.tw/en_...104B777C88BC63

Interesting, scissor switches with longer travel.


----------



## ch_123

I think the main advantage of scissor switches is that the travel is so short that you don't notice the mushiness of the underlying rubber dome, so long travel ones kind of miss the point in my books.

Whilst I'm probably going to get shot for saying this thread of all places, I prefer the Apple Aluminium keyboard over pretty much all conventional rubber dome keyboards for the same reason.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


I think the main advantage of scissor switches is that the travel is so short that you don't notice the mushiness of the underlying rubber dome, so long travel ones kind of miss the point in my books.

Whilst I'm probably going to get shot for saying this thread of all places, I prefer the Apple Aluminium keyboard over pretty much all conventional rubber dome keyboards for the same reason.


There are actually two scissor switch boards I love. One is the thinkpad's, the other is the board Toshiba used on their Pentium 4 notebooks.


----------



## KipH

Phaedrus2129, I was going the call you a geek, but.... you are the geek.

Where is your super flower review


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
Phaedrus2129, I was going the call you a geek, but.... you are the geek.

Where is your super flower review



















Don't know enough about Super Flower to do a review. They aren't really pervasive like the other brands I've done are.

By the way, stop by the Thermaltake booth and see if they have that mechanical keyboard there.


----------



## ripster

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE DOUBLE SHIFT TEST?









Seriously, you guys should try and get the G11/G15 users to try RSHIFT + LEFTARROW. Then push UPARROW. Whoops. No go up. (at least that's what somebody reported for a G15).


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


WHAT HAPPENED TO THE DOUBLE SHIFT TEST?









Seriously, you guys should try and get the G11/G15 users to try RSHIFT + LEFTARROW. Then push UPARROW. Whoops. No go up. (at least that's what somebody reported for a G15).


I deleted it! What are you gonna do about it? HUH!!!


----------



## Marin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


WHAT HAPPENED TO THE DOUBLE SHIFT TEST?

Seriously, you guys should try and get the G11/G15 users to try RSHIFT + LEFTARROW. Then push UPARROW. Whoops. No go up. (at least that's what somebody reported for a G15).


Done. Thanks for the help.









Anyways, I just realized that using SourceMod is actually quite tricking with the Otaku KB's since I can't see the numbers. So there's a larger chance something could accidentally happen to a player.








Anyways, I was looking at getting a keypad that I can keep at a side and pull out when I'm the server. But it seems EliteKeyboards only has a Tactile Touch keypad. Does a Tactile Click keypad exist or should I not even bother with one (since it's just a keypad and I doubt the switches will matter much)?

And I can't keep the seriousness up since you're now calling it quits in your thread.


----------



## ch_123

There are serial numpads with fake Blue Cherries around. There was also a guy in Hong Kong selling cheap Black Cherry ones, but he doesn't seem to have any more.


----------



## elbowglue

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
Does a Tactile Click keypad exist or should I not even bother with one (since it's just a keypad and I doubt the switches will matter much)?

And I can't keep the seriousness up since you're now calling it quits in your thread.









Conisder the Qtronix Scorpius 22 -
http://www.google.com/products?q=qtr...+22&hl=en&aq=f
Uses fake cherry switches, feels almost exactly like cherry blues.

Here is a longer thread about detachable keypads:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=9112


----------



## Manyak

If you want the Filco one specifically you can buy the blue switches from digikey, they're about $1 each.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Seriously, you guys should try and get the G11/G15 users to try RSHIFT + LEFTARROW. Then push UPARROW. Whoops. No go up. (at least that's what somebody reported for a G15).


Yeah one of my THPS friends got a g15, and it locked on a similar combo. Need to hold down spacebar, then balance the manuals while turning. It would either ignore up and down so he'd crash the balance, or it would ignore the right\\left so he'd slam into a wall.


----------



## KipH

There were a tonne of keypads listed on the computex sight, enough to make me wonder. Scan it and tell me if any interest you and I will try and pocket one









PS. I did the 2xshift test with my EePC and it did ok. Missed 3 keys. The I-rocks just laughed at it and said next.


----------



## W4LNUT5

25 guests viewing?? wow


----------



## lmnop

Manyak has become a celebrity. be cool my babies no pictures.


----------



## Marin

Another problem. Along with not getting the WASD keys, my keyboard lacks a bump on the J key.

I just sent EliteKeyboards another e-mail since I never got a reply to my last one.

*EDIT:* Brian just responded. Both the WASD keys and the J key are being sent. All is good now.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
There were a tonne of keypads listed on the computex sight, enough to make me wonder. Scan it and tell me if any interest you and I will try and pocket one









PS. I did the 2xshift test with my EePC and it did ok. Missed 3 keys. The I-rocks just laughed at it and said next.

Heh, I tried that test on my dell and it works better the slower I typed







.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE DOUBLE SHIFT TEST?









Seriously, you guys should try and get the G11/G15 users to try RSHIFT + LEFTARROW. Then push UPARROW. Whoops. No go up. (at least that's what somebody reported for a G15).


Quote:


Originally Posted by *elbowglue* 
Conisder the Qtronix Scorpius 22 -
http://www.google.com/products?q=qtr...+22&hl=en&aq=f
Uses fake cherry switches, feels almost exactly like cherry blues.

Here is a longer thread about detachable keypads:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=9112

More geekhackers joining. Nice... you all have to check out the other forums and start overclocking if you haven't already







.


----------



## lmnop

not really. ripster is still laughing at OCN even when he is sleeping.


----------



## lmnop

check this out, courtesy of panger.

http://kbtalking.cool3c.com/article/23139


----------



## ch_123

So wait, if Costar can make these mythical red Cherry keyboards, how come we can't have Filco ones?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
So wait, if Costar can make these mythical red Cherry keyboards, how come we can't have Filco ones?

I ran it through the google translator and it says this.

Quote:

The axes used for the Cherry MX red axis. However, the amount of red axis is basically not much. So after the production version will be out of the main shaft should be the black version.
looks like the I-Rocks 6250 with Cherry MX Red Linear will be a limited edition...


----------



## ch_123

They musn't make a lot of the plate mounted red switches.

Does Cherry make any plate-mounted G80s? Conversely, does anyone other than Cherry make PCB mounted MX switch keyboards?


----------



## lmnop

[email protected]#$^( Cherry









as if we don't already have enough mechanical keyboards with Cherry MX Black linear.

Deck 82, Deck Legend, Thermaltake, Truly Ergonomic, steelseries 7g, steelseries 6gv2, Filco Majestouch Linear Force, Filco TenKeyLess Linear Action, Cherry G80-3000, Cherry G80-11900 and now I-Rocks KR-6250.

and that isn't even counting all the clones or other brands in Asia.

it wouldn't surprise me if Metadot took a interest in the future either.


----------



## Maytan

My keyboard's in transit. I'm nervous that I wrote out the wrong address for my EMA... Oh Lordy I hope not. I should've double checked...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


My keyboard's in transit. I'm nervous that I wrote out the wrong address for my EMA... Oh Lordy I hope not. I should've double checked...


I bet that you can call them to make sure.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I bet that you can call them to make sure.

'tis worth a shot.


----------



## Crazy9000

I wrote 42st ave instead of 41st, so had to go down a block and ask the people for the package. Luckily they were nice and gave it to me lol.


----------



## videoman5

http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/122keyterkey.html

I am looking to get this keyboard, mostly because I can use the extra unused keys and map them to various macros and functions that are absent from a 10X key keyboard. I love the feel of IBM keyboards, and I'd thought I would give this a go. What do you guys think?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *videoman5* 
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/122keyterkey.html

I am looking to get this keyboard, mostly because I can use the extra unused keys and map them to various macros and functions that are absent from a 10X key keyboard. I love the feel of IBM keyboards, and I'd thought I would give this a go. What do you guys think?

I love the idea. After seeing several YouTube videos of Buckling Spring keyboards such as the IBM Model M as well as Unicomp's Customizer 104 and SpaceSaver 104, I am actually quite tempted myself. Only if I had the extra room to store extra keyboards!


----------



## videoman5

Are you sure that this keyboard will work with Windows 7? I am worried about that.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *videoman5*


Are you sure that this keyboard will work with Windows 7? I am worried about that.


If you have a PS/2 port then yes, it will work.


----------



## nzgroller

whenever i tell people about this or try to explain they always say that my keyboard sucks and there "G15" or whatever is better


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nzgroller*


whenever i tell people about this or try to explain they always say that my keyboard sucks and there "G15" or whatever is better


What keyboard do you have?

I'd pee on a 'G15' the first chance I got







. . . overpriced pieces of dump

Those people are paying for hype and cheap plasticky style. If they'd like to be ignorant, then that's their problem. The worlds full of 'em


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nzgroller*


whenever i tell people about this or try to explain they always say that my keyboard sucks and there "G15" or whatever is better


That's because their G15 has aggressive styling as well as those excessive features physically built into the keyboard. But they are also just don't know any better. Some people even see the words "mechanical keyboard", and immediately think of things like, "archaic", "outdated", "legacy", "inferior", "lackluster", "boring", "we don't need mechanical keyboards anymore", etc., etc.

I've had people try to "save" me from the world of mechanical keyboards as though I was blind or something - as if I could have a much better keyboard by getting the G19 or something.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


That's because their G15 has aggressive styling as well as those excessive features physically built into the keyboard. But they are also just don't know any better. Some people even see the words "mechanical keyboard", and immediately think of things like, "archaic", "outdated", "legacy", "inferior", "lackluster", "boring", "we don't need mechanical keyboards anymore", etc., etc.

I've had people try to "save" me from the world of mechanical keyboards as though I was blind or something - as if I could have a much better keyboard by getting the G19 or something.










They're trying to save you from being a geek.

Sad for me, I was born a geek.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
They're trying to save you from being a geek.

Sad for me, I was born a geek.









I have Asperger Syndrome, so I was too.







hehe


----------



## videoman5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


If you have a PS/2 port then yes, it will work.


Even the unusual side keys? I want all of the keys to work. It would bug me to no end if they didn't.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *videoman5*


Even the unusual side keys? I want all of the keys to work. It would bug me to no end if they didn't.


Those side keys are labeled F13 to F24, but what they send to the computer is actually Shift+F1 to Shift+F12. You can program them to do anything you want using Autohotkey


----------



## videoman5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Those side keys are labeled F13 to F24, but what they send to the computer is actually Shift+F1 to Shift+F12. You can program them to do anything you want using Autohotkey












I'm talking about the 10 keys left of the main set. Not the F13-24 at the top.


----------



## Manyak

Oh. Yeah I forget what those one send exactly, but they're also regular scancodes. You can find out easily using passmark.


----------



## CJRhoades

Are there any blue backlit mechanical keyboards for <$80? I ordered a Razer Lycosa and then found out all this stuff about mechanical boards so now I'm wondering. There's still time to cancel the order so please let me know quickly.


----------



## Marin

I don't think so, but that really shouldn't hold you back from getting a mechanical keyboard.









Once you type on one you'll stop caring about all the extra stuff.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


Are there any blue backlit mechanical keyboards for <$80? I ordered a Razer Lycosa and then found out all this stuff about mechanical boards so now I'm wondering. There's still time to cancel the order so please let me know quickly.


Not for under $80. Try $180

If you want a backlit mechanical, then it will be a Deck
www.deckkeyboards.com


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


I don't think so, but that really shouldn't hold you back from getting a mechanical keyboard.










No, I really need a backlit one. My room is rather dark and I'm constantly struggling to see my keyboard. Turning lights on helps but then I have massive glare on my monitors.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Not for under $80. Try $180

If you want a backlit mechanical, then it will be a Deck
www.deckkeyboards.com


Ehh.. nevermind.


----------



## Marin

Touch typing is your friend.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


No, I really need a backlit one. My room is rather dark and I'm constantly struggling to see my keyboard. Turning lights on helps but then I have massive glare on my monitors.

Ehh.. nevermind.


If $180 seems much for a Deck, it's not. It's the best keyboard I have ever owned. The craftsmanship is phenomenal

I will say that $80 for a Lycosa will seem way overpriced after you get a Deck


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


Touch typing is your friend.










Yea, I type 90WPM, but I still find myself looking down occasionally.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


If $180 seems much for a Deck, it's not. It's the best keyboard I have ever owned.

I will say that $80 for a Lycosa will seem way overpriced after you get a Deck


Maybe so but I can't afford that atm and I need a new keyboard asap. Old one is having issues.


----------



## Marin

Just do what I did, get a keyboard with no letters.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


Yea, I type 90WPM, but I still find myself looking down occasionally.

Maybe so but I can't afford that atm and I need a new keyboard asap. Old one is having issues.


I understand the money woes man.

If you ever get a chance to get a Deck, you won't regret it. Until then, enjoy the lycosa


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


Just do what I did, get a keyboard with no letters.










The letter keys aren't my problem. Most of the other keys on my board are macro'd to do all kinds of things and sometimes I have trouble locating them without looking.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


I understand the money woes man.

If you ever get a chance to get a Deck, you won't regret it. Until then, enjoy the lycosa


Thanks. I read about 5 reviews on it before ordering and the worst I saw was a 7/10 so I think it'll be good.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


The letter keys aren't my problem. Most of the other keys on my board are macro'd to do all kinds of things and sometimes I have trouble locating them without looking.

Thanks. I read about 5 reviews on it before ordering and the worst I saw was a 7/10 so I think it'll be good.


It will make you happy for sure

I won't get into it, but I can never go back to a rubber dome keyboard. If you ever get a chance to try out a mechanical keyboard, you'll know what I mean. It's like heaven in a 5lb brick.

My last rubber dome was a Saitek Eclipse II (blue backlighting) that I just gave away because I will never use it again. It was a great keyboard at the time, but now it just doesn't cut the mustard.


----------



## KipH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I ran it through the google translator and it says this.

looks like the I-Rocks 6250 with Cherry MX Red Linear will be a limited edition...


Finally got my wife to look at that I-rocks red board. That was a review of it and it was a bad review. I will get to see one at computex, but for over $5000 NT its not worth it at all. Sorry to disappoint.

And about that Razer Lycosa: that is one of the few boards I have ever taken back to the store and demanded a refund. My $5 benq was better and more reliable to type on. I solved my dark room issues bu getting a flexible light that plugs into the USB port on my I-rocks (or a battery pack). You can get a 2 pack at Costco for a few bucks. Everything I thought I needed to spend so much on a G15 for I don't miss at all with this little I-rocks, and its not the best of the mechanical.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
Finally got my wife to look at that I-rocks red board. That was a review of it and it was a bad review. I will get to see one at computex, but for over $5000 NT its not worth it at all. Sorry to disappoint.

And about that Razer Lycosa: *that is one of the few boards I have ever taken back to the store and demanded a refund.* My $5 benq was better and more reliable to type on. I solved my dark room issues bu getting a flexible light that plugs into the USB port on my I-rocks (or a battery pack). You can get a 2 pack at Costco for a few bucks. Everything I thought I needed to spend so much on a G15 for I don't miss at all with this little I-rocks, and its not the best of the mechanical.

What exactly was wrong with it? I read some other horror stories about the Lycosa on OCN and now I'm beginning to get worried about my purchase...


----------



## KipH

It has been a while and i don't really remember specifics. There were keys that did not sit right, the lighting flicked and it did not read the keys I pressed. This last did it for me as I am not a good typer but I like the keys to work. I suspect I just got a bad one or was not lucky, but they took it back. I was much happier with the G15. It felt more solid and typed better. But after a month with that it gave me an intermittent fault in the lighting. I figured I had real bad luck with boards and had given up.

Then I went looking for Cherries or Duckies here in Taiwan. The store had this I-rocks in stock and gave me %20 off the price as I am a great customer. I have never been happier with a keyboard that I can remember. I brings me back to the joy of playing muds on dial up 300 baud modems


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CJRhoades* 
What exactly was wrong with it? I read some other horror stories about the Lycosa on OCN and now I'm beginning to get worried about my purchase...

shady advertising, shoddy soldering on the touch panel on select batch numbers, stuck keys on select batch numbers, back lighting sensor to close to volume up sensor on touch panel, rubber coating peel, driver issues, unshielded multimedia ports, dim led.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
Finally got my wife to look at that I-rocks red board. That was a review of it and it was a bad review. I will get to see one at computex, but for over $5000 NT its not worth it at all. Sorry to disappoint.

And about that Razer Lycosa: that is one of the few boards I have ever taken back to the store and demanded a refund. My $5 benq was better and more reliable to type on. I solved my dark room issues bu getting a flexible light that plugs into the USB port on my I-rocks (or a battery pack). You can get a 2 pack at Costco for a few bucks. Everything I thought I needed to spend so much on a G15 for I don't miss at all with this little I-rocks, and its not the best of the mechanical.

what's wrong with the I-Rocks KR-6250?


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


shady advertising, shoddy soldering on the touch panel on select batch numbers, stuck keys on select batch numbers, back lighting sensor to close to volume up sensor on touch panel, rubber coating peel, driver issues, unshielded multimedia ports, dim led.


Great...


----------



## TwoCables

Hey, CJRhoades: there are USB-powered LED lights that you can use for keyboards that don't have backlighting.









Now that I know the difference between the Lycosa and [good] mechanical keyboards, I highly recommend doing whatever it takes to avoid the Lycosa and get something that comes highly recommended by the regulars in this thread. I had to deal with the Lycosa myself, but now that I know the difference, I wouldn't even recommend that poor excuse for a keyboard to a mortal enemy!

I also owned the G15, and it's the same thing: I wouldn't recommend it to anyone at all.

Now, if you can afford the Lycosa, then I am willing to bet that the regulars in this thread can recommend you both a superior membrane (rubber dome) keyboard and a USB-powered LED setup for less than the total cost of the Lycosa. Plus, a set up that uses those USB-powered LED lights looks cool. Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if you would be hooked up with a good deal on a good mechanical keyboard!


----------



## Phaedrus2129

If you don't care about looks, Cherry G80-8200 make cheap "uber gaming" boards. NKRO and lots of macro keys with onboard memory. There's a guy selling them NIB on eBay for $35 shipped.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


Great...


rubber coating

this is a picture of a Razer Lycosa less than 12 months old.










touch panel

the touch panel originally had a faulty wire caused by shoddy soldering if I remember correctly and certain serial numbers were recalled. it can be to sensitive a mouse or headphone cord can activate the touch panel. the sensor that controls backlighting is either underneath or to close to the sensor that controls volume up, sometimes the touch panel can even be unresponsive.

stuck keys

Quote:



This issue is only present in certain serial numbers starting with MT0803, MT0802, MT0801 and MT07. All other Keyboards starting with other serial number prefixes have not been affected by this issue.


these serial numbers are still in circulation and even serial numbers that are not listed above have this problem such as MT08 and MT09.

unshielded multimedia ports

Quote:



the end of the cord that houses both USB connectors (one for the USB hub, and one for the keyboard) also has a mic input and audio output line that you can use to plug into your machine, effectively 'extending' the location where you would normally plug in your headphones/speakers/microphone and have that function directly near your keyboard. It's a great idea, but it will fall way short for any audiophile. The audio hub caused a great deal of audio distortion and rendered it effectively useless for me. I'm assuming this occurs because it is coupled with the USB cables which, if shielded improperly, provide a lot of audio distortion/noise.


----------



## elttaboi

i just bought an ABS M1
removed the metal tactile leafs from each switch, and now it's one of the best gaming keyboards i have used!








true linear alps ftw


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
If you don't care about looks, Cherry G80-8200 make cheap "uber gaming" boards. NKRO and lots of macro keys with onboard memory. There's a guy selling them NIB on eBay for $35 shipped.

Are those cherry blacks or browns?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Browns.

My review; http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...us-review.html


----------



## Murinus

Planning on getting me a Steelseries 7g or a 6gv2 -- which is way cheaper but they haven't released it yet.

My question is, just how 'real' mechanical keyboards are these?I know they don't make a clicky sound and all, i've seen some HQ videos of people typing on 7g, das keyboard, Filco Majestouch etc etc and i must admit that i like the 7g more, the others are way too loud for me.

So, all you mechanical keyboard enthusiasts, what do you think about the 7g?

**Forgot to mention that the 7g is the only one that i can actually find in the Greek market for around 100 euros.I tried ordering a das keyboard and a Filco but with the whole shipping costs they come for 160+ euros


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Browns.

My review; http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...us-review.html

Nice. You didn't happen to open it up did you? Any chance of getting a pic of the bottom of the pcb?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I'm not sure how to open it up, it has a sort of snap together arrangement, rather than screws. If you're wondering, there's no metal plate, so bottoming out is quieter and softer, but the board isn't as sturdy and can flex a little.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Hey, CJRhoades: there are USB-powered LED lights that you can use for keyboards that don't have backlighting.









Now that I know the difference between the Lycosa and [good] mechanical keyboards, I highly recommend doing whatever it takes to avoid the Lycosa and get something that comes highly recommended by the regulars in this thread. I had to deal with the Lycosa myself, but now that I know the difference, I wouldn't even recommend that poor excuse for a keyboard to a mortal enemy!

I also owned the G15, and it's the same thing: I wouldn't recommend it to anyone at all.

Now, if you can afford the Lycosa, then I am willing to bet that the regulars in this thread can recommend you both a superior membrane (rubber dome) keyboard and a USB-powered LED setup for less than the total cost of the Lycosa. Plus, a set up that uses those USB-powered LED lights looks cool. Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if you would be hooked up with a good deal on a good mechanical keyboard!


Ah... sounds awesome but... too late. Newegg already shipped it. It's weird that all of the reviews say it's good and there weren't any major problems and yet everyone here says it's junk.

I really am worried now but I guess I'll just see for myself in 3-4 days...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


Ah... sound awesome but... too late. Newegg already shipped it. It's weird that all of the reviews say it's good and there weren't any major problems and yet everyone here says it's junk.

I really am worried now but I guess I'll just see for myself in 3-4 days...


Believe it or not, but it's simple: those people who give it good reviews don't know any better. To them, that is probably the best keyboard they've ever used. I know that it was the best keyboard *I* had ever used when I bought mine. But pretty much every commonly-recommended mechanical keyboard absolutely crushes it and make it look like it's only worth $9.99. Heh, I wouldn't even buy that damn thing for $1.99.

So back when I bought my Lycosa, I didn't know any better. I gave it a good review and I recommended it very highly to other OCN members. But again, it's just garbage in comparison. Now I know better. In other words, you will probably like it because you don't know any better yet.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Heh, I wouldn't even buy that damn thing for $1.99.

I would. Then sell it on ebay for a profit.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I would. Then sell it on ebay for a profit.









Whoa. Genius!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Murinus* 
Planning on getting me a Steelseries 7g or a 6gv2 -- which is way cheaper but they haven't released it yet.

My question is, just how 'real' mechanical keyboards are these?I know they don't make a clicky sound and all, i've seen some HQ videos of people typing on 7g, das keyboard, Filco Majestouch etc etc and i must admit that i like the 7g more, the others are way too loud for me.

So, all you mechanical keyboard enthusiasts, what do you think about the 7g?

**Forgot to mention that the 7g is the only one that i can actually find in the Greek market for around 100 euros.I tried ordering a das keyboard and a Filco but with the whole shipping costs they come for 160+ euros

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the 7g. It's very well built. The general consensus is that it's Cherry Blacks aren't nice for typing but they're great for gaming. Your opinion might be completely different once you try them though, as there are still many people who like typing on them just fine.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
There's absolutely nothing wrong with the 7g. It's very well built. The general consensus is that it's Cherry Blacks aren't nice for typing but they're great for gaming. Your opinion might be completely different once you try them though, as there are still many people who like typing on them just fine.

Especially when they upgrade straight to it from a G15 or a Lycosa or something!







I mean, I'm not cutting down the 7G, but I'm just saying that it's true that even though the Cherry MX Blacks are the "best" for gaming and "suck" for typing, it's still better than many rubber dome keyboards.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Especially when they upgrade straight to it from a G15 or a Lycosa or something!







I mean, I'm not cutting down the 7G, but I'm just saying that it's true that even though the Cherry MX Blacks are the "best" for gaming and "suck" for typing, it's still better than many rubber dome keyboards.

I myself actually prefer a bit of a 'bump' when gaming. It makes the key press feel a lot more like I'm actually accomplishing my movements inside the games. That might just be me though.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I myself actually prefer a bit of a 'bump' when gaming. It makes the key press feel a lot more like I'm actually accomplishing my movements inside the games. That might just be me though.

Yup, I actually prefer blues to blacks for gaming too (but I'm pretty sure I'll like reds the best).

The whole blues=typing, blacks=gaming, browns=little of both, is just a quick way of giving advice to people using a mechanical board for the first time because this is what most people who've tried them all seem to think. But ultimately it's all about your own preference.


----------



## Marin

Awesome, another person who prefers blues.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Yup, I actually prefer blues to blacks for gaming too (but I'm pretty sure I'll like reds the best).

The whole blues=typing, blacks=gaming, browns=little of both, is just a quick way of giving advice to people using a mechanical board for the first time because this is what most people who've tried them all seem to think. But ultimately it's all about your own preference.

Browns are my personal favorite. I love the clicking sound and the tactile bump, just not TOO much of it. (the Blues are awesome, but I need some extra silence/less activity)

EDIT: I should mention, I've only tried Blacks, Blues, and Browns. There's so many other switches that I can't even remember, there might be one/some I like more.


----------



## Crazy9000

Blues are mechanically bad for serious gaming. Lots of people aren't super serious about their games and it won't bother them though I guess. I couldn't imagine having to game on blues.


----------



## waar

so cherry blacks are best for gaming?

im looking for a new keyboard (preferably under 100) for my new gaming rig.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Blues are mechanically bad for serious gaming. Lots of people aren't super serious about their games and it won't bother them though I guess. I couldn't imagine having to game on blues.

See that's just the thing though - their mechanical fault doesn't really bother me in the least bit. When I double tap a key I let go all the way anyway.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waar* 
so cherry blacks are best for gaming?

im looking for a new keyboard (preferably under 100) for my new gaming rig.

For very serious gaming, yeah. But as a few here in this thread are demonstrating, even keyboards with the Cherry MX Blues can be preferred for gaming. It just depends on what you think you will like best. So try to learn as much as you can before making a final decision.


----------



## waar

i see.

the problem is that i can't exactly go anywhere to try them out lol.

i was thinking of getting the one you're using, but it's a tad bit out of my price range. but if i go with a cheaper mouse, i'll looking that one.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I'm not sure how to open it up, it has a sort of snap together arrangement, rather than screws. If you're wondering, there's no metal plate, so bottoming out is quieter and softer, but the board isn't as sturdy and can flex a little.

Ok, thanks anyway. I was more thinking about the arrangement of the traces, but that info does help. I'm thinking about getting a donor for a more permanent solution for me. I don't really care for how the black alps feel for typing, plus the dell keys don't like dye.

Modding mechanical keyboards is so darn fun. I think its actually addicting







. I'll probably post my latest abomination here or in the mechanical keyboard club once I finish it which may be soon if it works







.

*edit*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waar* 
i see.

the problem is that i can't exactly go anywhere to try them out lol.

i was thinking of getting the one you're using, but it's a tad bit out of my price range. but if i go with a cheaper mouse, i'll looking that one.

Along those lines, microcenter usually has a few you can try out right? Like a das or something?


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waar* 
i see.

the problem is that i can't exactly go anywhere to try them out lol.

i was thinking of getting the one you're using, but it's a tad bit out of my price range. but if i go with a cheaper mouse, i'll looking that one.

This is the biggest problems. Listening to clips on YouTube and reading reviews on here/geekhack does not really do the actual FEEL justice. In the end, you're the only one who can like or dislike a product.

Do you have a Fry's near you? The Fry's located around here have Blue Cherry Keyboards ( SIIG ) and Black Cherry Keyboards ( 7G ). I would recommend buying them to tryout for the week or so, return them and then make your decision on what switch type to get. The majority of owners use Blues and Browns, which are great switch types, but you should experience different types before you make a decision. Just my 2cents, otherwise let TwoCables write a 9000 page report on his Blues, buy one and call it a day.


----------



## lmnop

Deck and Metadot (Das) have a 30 day return policy. Diatec (Filco) all transactions are final.


----------



## yayitsdan

edit:wrong thread :\\


----------



## waar

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
This is the biggest problems. Listening to clips on YouTube and reading reviews on here/geekhack does not really do the actual FEEL justice. In the end, you're the only one who can like or dislike a product.

Do you have a Fry's near you? The Fry's located around here have Blue Cherry Keyboards ( SIIG ) and Black Cherry Keyboards ( 7G ). I would recommend buying them to tryout for the week or so, return them and then make your decision on what switch type to get. The majority of owners use Blues and Browns, which are great switch types, but you should experience different types before you make a decision. Just my 2cents, otherwise let TwoCables write a 9000 page report on his Blues, buy one and call it a day.

Yeah, I have a frys near me. But isn't as big as the other frys that are an hour away. I actually went to frys yesterday to look for a keyboard an all they had were a bunch of logitech wireless keyboard/mouse combos and a few ms keyboards.

And the nearest microcenter is too far also.

Guess ill try my luck with a net purchase and see how it goes.


----------



## Hoodcom

I have a question, whether my old keyboard is Mechanical or not...

I removed the Scroll lock key (I tried removing it to see how easy/hard it is with out breaking anything, since I never use scroll lock. lol)

Sorry for the poor picture, but at this time my cell phone is the only camera I have:










This is a Monterey K208 keyboard, with the old big AT plug on it.

Here is a full picture (not my picture, but same appearance as my keyboard I found online)










So for now, while I wait, I'm gonna give this some cleaning work, been in my brother's garage for a while. lol


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Hm, I'm not sure. Does it click halfway through a key's travel?

Those don't look like any mechanical switch I've seen, including Monterey SMK switches. It might just be a discrete rubber dome (individual rubber domes under each key, rather than a sheet with domes on it).


----------



## Hoodcom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Hm, I'm not sure. Does it click halfway through a key's travel?

Those don't look like any mechanical switch I've seen, including Monterey SMK switches. It might just be a discrete rubber dome (individual rubber domes under each key, rather than a sheet with domes on it).

No click half-way through.

I took the back cover off, and sadly not a mechanical keyboard, just some dome thing. Oh well, I thought I'd give it a try trying to find out or not. lol


----------



## Alpstouch

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoodcom* 
No click half-way through.

I took the back cover off, and sadly not a mechanical keyboard, just some dome thing. Oh well, I thought I'd give it a try trying to find out or not. lol










It looks like the old Korean Futaba switches. See if you can take off a switch and check behind its back for a Futaba logo. It can be considered mechanical if you could find a spring inside. According to an Asian user, its tactile feel is likely to be somewhere between Alps and Cherry MX Clear.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoodcom* 
No click half-way through.

I took the back cover off, and sadly not a mechanical keyboard, just some dome thing. Oh well, I thought I'd give it a try trying to find out or not. lol










Does it resemble this at all?










I grabbed this from the OP of this thread.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Probably more like this, with the dome inside a plastic housing:
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/20...aedrus2401.jpg

Only with less filth.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Probably more like this, with the dome inside a plastic housing:
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/20...aedrus2401.jpg

Only with less filth.

Wow. I'm so glad I wasn't eating. But regardless, I'm grateful to have seen this since I'm an aspiring keyboard geek.


----------



## Maytan

My EMA reached Texas. About a week longer and I'll have my baby back.


----------



## Kamakazi

I know mechanical keyboards are not the way to go if you are concerned about noise, but does anybody know a good place where I can hear how loud they are? I am only concerned because my keyboard is in the living room right by the TV, so I am concerned about interfering with that.

Just for the record I am looking at the Das Professional Silent


----------



## Phaedrus2129

If you find it too loud you can do the rubber band mod, which is extremely simple; you order ~100 dental bands for ~$5-7 per 100, then take off all your keycaps, put the bands around the keystem like so:








And put the keys back on.

That should muffle the bottoming out noise and make it about on par with an average rubber dome.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kamakazi* 
I know mechanical keyboards are not the way to go if you are concerned about noise, but does anybody know a good place where I can hear how loud they are? I am only concerned because my keyboard is in the living room right by the TV, so I am concerned about interfering with that.

Just for the record I am looking at the Das Professional Silent

Even the Model S Silent can be "clacky" when bottoming out the keys against the casing of the switches. The reason why it's called the "Silent" is because it uses the Cherry MX Browns which don't make any noise. But again, that doesn't mean it's rubber-quiet.

I recommend using YouTube to find videos of people using their mechanical keyboards by using searches like "das model s", "mechanical keyboard", "cherry mx blue", "cherry mx brown", or anything else you can think of. Unfortunately, some of these videos make it seem like the keyboard is louder than a construction site, so watch as many videos as you can to get a clearer idea.

Also, I am sensing that you're concerned about the click sound that the Cherry MX Blues make. This click is a bit like the click a retractable pen makes, only it's quieter and nicer sounding. The sound of bottoming out the keys is certainly louder than the clicks.

Fortunately, it's easy to avoid bottoming out just as long as you want to avoid it.


----------



## Kamakazi

Okay, so sounds like as long as I don't hammer the keys like Thor hammering baddies with Mjolnir it shouldn't be too bad.

And I have to say, I was looking at like an Eclipse III or a Logitech until I read this thread. But I also fall into the camp of wanting some function keys on like a Das, just like a vertical row on the left hand side. But I realize that isn't really what they are going for.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kamakazi* 
Okay, so sounds like as long as I don't hammer the keys like Thor hammering baddies with Mjolnir it shouldn't be too bad.

And I have to say, I was looking at like an Eclipse III or a Logitech until I read this thread. But I also fall into the camp of wanting some function keys on like a Das, just like a vertical row on the left hand side. But I realize that isn't really what they are going for.

Fortunately, there are some options in the form of software:

SharpKeys (and here's my review, more or less - it has screenshots)
KeyboardLink
AutoHotKey
But AutoHotKey is much more than just software for programming keys on a keyboard.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kamakazi* 
Okay, so sounds like as long as I don't hammer the keys like Thor hammering baddies with Mjolnir it shouldn't be too bad.

And I have to say, I was looking at like an Eclipse III or a Logitech until I read this thread. But I also fall into the camp of wanting some function keys on like a Das, just like a vertical row on the left hand side. But I realize that isn't really what they are going for.

Make sure you get one with the keys then, I think they discontinued doing that on their site, due to popular request ironically. Apparently they got tons of complaints from people who didn't like the fn key there instead of a windows key.

If you must have media keys and can't find a Das with them, these keyboards are a little more but do have either brown or blue switches like the Das, and have media keys: http://www.notestation.com/kb-modmac...ackeyboard.htm


----------



## Kamakazi

Nice links TwoCables, I will give those a shot.

Now to decide if I want one with or without a numpad. I like the small and compactness of one without, but I like to have it at times as well.

EDIT: Or apparently the Filco's are the ones without the numpad....I AM SO CONFUSED!!!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kamakazi* 
Nice links TwoCables, I will give those a shot.

Now to decide if I want one with or without a numpad. I like the small and compactness of one without, but I like to have it at times as well.

EDIT: Or apparently the Filco's are the ones without the numpad....I AM SO CONFUSED!!!

Well, there are indeed Filco Majestouch keyboards that are Tenkeyless, but that's just about half of the offering. The other "half" of the offering are full-size boards.

More information: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?lang=en (or for the full experience, start here: http://elitekeyboards.com/)


----------



## Hoodcom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Does it resemble this at all?










I grabbed this from the OP of this thread.









Similar, though at the bottom of that dome thing seemed to have some outer square looking area, guess just more of a place to rest the dome.

I hadn't taken the keyboard completely apart (And won't because I don't want to risk loosing something, breaking something, or cause it not to work 100%.)

Already am having the right shift key stick on me. lol, and it is the only AT plug keyboard I have with me right now to use on my old 486 based machines.

But it seems save to say this isn't mechanical. Too bad though.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

There's an IBM AT terminal keyboard with buckling springs currently going cheap on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-Model-M-Clic...item2ead5dea4e


----------



## videoman5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
There's an IBM AT terminal keyboard with buckling springs currently going cheap on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-Model-M-Clic...item2ead5dea4e

It would be nice if the seller wasn't shill bidding.

Seriously, it seems like everyone selling mechanical keyboards are doing that. Not cool man.

Also, I got my Customiser 104 today. Feels good man. I personally think I can type a bit faster with it, but that may be a buyer's placebo effect. Still digging the feel of the keypress and the sound is soothing to my ears.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *videoman5* 
It would be nice if the seller wasn't shill bidding.

Seriously, it seems like everyone selling mechanical keyboards are doing that. Not cool man.

How can you tell? I don't know how to recognize it.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *videoman5* 
Also, I got my Customiser 104 today. Feels good man. I personally think I can type a bit faster with it, but that may be a buyer's placebo effect. Still digging the feel of the keypress and the sound is soothing to my ears.









Nah, it's definitely not a placebo effect. I have had my mechanical board since 3/9/10, and I am still digging the feel of the keypresses as well as the sound! Not a single day goes by where I forget about how much I love this keyboard.

Just a silly example: I used SharpKeys to program Keypad Minus and Keypad Plus to be Volume Down and Volume Up. I also programmed Keypad Del to be Mute. Now, whenever I press one of these just one time, I tend to want to press it again, and again, and again. I mean, I am constantly looking for excuses to use my keyboard.


----------



## videoman5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
How can you tell? I don't know how to recognize it.









Nah, it's definitely not a placebo effect. I have had my mechanical board since 3/9/10, and I am still digging the feel of the keypresses as well as the sound! Not a single day goes by where I forget about how much I love this keyboard.

Just a silly example: I used SharpKeys to program Keypad Minus and Keypad Plus to be Volume Down and Volume Up. I also programmed Keypad Del to be Mute. Now, whenever I press one of these just one time, I tend to want to press it again, and again, and again. I mean, I am constantly looking for excuses to use my keyboard.


Look at the bids.
They are all "Y***x" with low or no trading rep.
Where x is a number, and Y a letter. Now look at all the keyboard, specifically mechanical keyboard, auctions. All the same. I've bid on these before, within 5 seconds of my bid was another, different bidder with the same format out bidding me by $0.25. If that's not bot like behavior, I don't know what is.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *videoman5* 
Look at the bids.
They are all "Y***x" with low or no trading rep.
Where x is a number, and Y a letter. Now look at all the keyboard, specifically mechanical keyboard, auctions. All the same. I've bid on these before, within 5 seconds of my bid was another, different bidder with the same format out bidding me by $0.25. If that's not bot like behavior, I don't know what is.

I see D****i and D****D ??? It censors the middle of the name, so I don't see how you could conclude that those aren't proper names. Also one has about 50 ratings, and the other 500.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Ebay obscures the names. And I have a low-ish trade rep, because I've only bought a few things on ebay. Mainly mechanical keyboards. Don't jump to conclusions, this seems like a typical scenario so far; someone bids $1.00 (starting bid), another person comes in an makes a reasonable bid (probably ~$5-$20).

It doesn't matter anyway, put in your maximum bid, what you consider reasonable, and see if you get outbid. There isn't much time left anyway.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kamakazi* 
Nice links TwoCables, I will give those a shot.

Now to decide if I want one with or without a numpad. I like the small and compactness of one without, but I like to have it at times as well.

EDIT: Or apparently the Filco's are the ones without the numpad....I AM SO CONFUSED!!!

Filco's are kind of pricey ( Yes, I have a 104-Filco ). Can someone confirm the Das is about 110ish? Get the cheaper KB imo, Das is also slightly higher quality in materials.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Make sure you get one with the keys then, I think they discontinued doing that on their site, due to popular request ironically. Apparently they got tons of complaints from people who didn't like the fn key there instead of a windows key.

If you must have media keys and can't find a Das with them, these keyboards are a little more but do have either brown or blue switches like the Das, and have media keys: http://www.notestation.com/kb-modmac...ackeyboard.htm

Or you could use autohotkey to change the left windows key into a fn key so that win+F2 = play, win+F1 = previous... Only you would have more freedom.

Personally, I don't like hitting two keys to change volume or anything else, and I actually use the windows key and the tenkey. I ended up using the numpad buttons to control play/prev/next/volume when scroll lock is on. Turn off scroll lock and they act normally (I haven't quite gotten that part perfected yet though).

What I had before instead of scroll lock was numpad0 + numpad- or numpad+ to do the same thing. Instead of using alt or something, I used numpad0 as the first key.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
Filco's are kind of pricey ( Yes, I have a 104-Filco ). Can someone confirm the Das is about 110ish? Get the cheaper KB imo, Das is also slightly higher quality in materials.

They range from $129.00 to $135.00 shipped at www.daskeyboards.com.

http://store.daskeyboard.com/Das-Key.../dp/B003F80L08


----------



## videoman5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


Or you could use autohotkey to change the left windows key into a fn key so that win+F2 = play, win+F1 = previous... Only you would have more freedom.

Personally, I don't like hitting two keys to change volume or anything else, and I actually use the windows key and the tenkey. I ended up using the numpad buttons to control play/prev/next/volume when scroll lock is on. Turn off scroll lock and they act normally (I haven't quite gotten that part perfected yet though).

What I had before instead of scroll lock was numpad0 + numpad- or numpad+ to do the same thing. Instead of using alt or something, I used numpad0 as the first key.


Would you mind uploading that script?


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


They range from $129.00 to $135.00 shipped at www.daskeyboards.com.

http://store.daskeyboard.com/Das-Key.../dp/B003F80L08


Gotcha, Das does offer free shipping and no tax ( at least for me, I don't live in their home state. Had to pay tax and 10~ for shipping, even though EliteKeyboards is 30 minutes from my house :/ ).

Christine also posted a 15% off coupon: DASKC3NI

I'd buy the Das if I was in the market for Blues or Browns.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Fn key? We don't need no stinkin' Fn key!


----------



## TwoCables

Damn, Phaedrus2129! Is that yours? I like that!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Gotcha, Das does offer free shipping and no tax ( at least for me, I don't live in their home state. Had to pay tax and 10~ for shipping, even though EliteKeyboards is 30 minutes from my house :/ ).


But the majority of a shipping cost depends on the weight and size of the package. Other times it's just a standard rate for Ground.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Christine also posted a 15% off coupon: DASKC3NI

I'd buy the Das if I was in the market for Blues or Browns.


I think I would too just because I would like to begin collecting mechanical keyboards.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Apparently you missed my acquisition and review.








http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...us-review.html


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Gotcha, Das does offer free shipping and no tax ( at least for me, I don't live in their home state. Had to pay tax and 10~ for shipping, even though EliteKeyboards is 30 minutes from my house :/ ).

Christine also posted a 15% off coupon: DASKC3NI

I'd buy the Das if I was in the market for Blues or Browns.


Haha yup! That's exactly why I bought the Das over the Filco. I'm enjoying it right now


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Haha yup! That's exactly why I bought the Das over the Filco. I'm enjoying it right now










did you fix the squeak in your backspace key?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Apparently you missed my acquisition and review.








http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...us-review.html


Wow. Now that's nice!!


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Apparently you missed my acquisition and review.








http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...us-review.html


So when do I get the G84
















I do remember that review now. The board looks so much different after having made use of the relegendable keys. Do you find them useful? Or do they tend to be unnecessary?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

They come in fairly useful.

I make heavy use of the volume and "Alt+F4" buttons, and moderate use of the program buttons.

I've found the play/pause/stop/fordward/backward buttons only work in Windows Media Player, so they don't get used a lot, but when I do watch a movie (I'm currently going through the Jericho series







) they do get some use.

The section in the top right is just your standard print screen, numlock, caps lock, but I've remapped scroll lock to act as a "Windows lock" so that when it's on the Windows key registers as ctrl+shift.

The browser controls are just there temporarily until I think of something else to put there.

The numberpad doesn't get used a whole lot, I'm trying to train myself to use it though. Plus having a calculator button there is a godsend.







And the Play/Pause button also works as Enter, and Stop also functions as backspace.

Reprogramming the Function keys interferes with Firefox's built-in commands, so I'm not going to bother. I tried to program them to take me to certain websites, but it was buggy. I was running out of things to macro anyway.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


They come in fairly useful. 
. . .
The numberpad doesn't get used a whole lot, I'm trying to train myself to use it though. Plus having a calculator button there is a godsend.







And the Play/Pause button also works as Enter, and Stop also functions as backspace.
. . .


I'm really surprised by the number of people who don't use the number pad.

I had to type in product numbers all day at my last job, so getting to know the number pad was hugely necessary. I cruise on that thing now, and couldn't imagine being without it sometimes. I really have trouble trying to use the top row of number keys because it's so inefficient by comparison.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


I'm really surprised by the number of people who don't use the number pad.

I had to type in product numbers all day at my last job, so getting to know the number pad was hugely necessary. I cruise on that thing now, and couldn't imagine being without it sometimes. I really have trouble trying to use the top row of number keys because it's so inefficient by comparison.


I use it in gaming, and when I use my blank das since I don't really know/care how to touch type them on the top.


----------



## Kamakazi

Crazy, just out of curiosity how many keyboards do you have?


----------



## kyle-reece

I want to know whos idea it was to put the numberpad on the right side of the keyboard so you have to put needless strain on your arms to use it or forfeit the ability to use the numberpad while using the mouse, standard keyboards are obvious made for left handed people, and the so called 'left handed keyboards' are actually better for right handed people!


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


Crazy, just out of curiosity how many keyboards do you have?


Who, me?

Four mechanicals:
Cherry G80-8200LPDUS
Cherry G84-4100PPAUS
Compaq MX11800
IBM Model M 1391401 1988

Though I'm giving away the G84 and considering selling the Compaq.

I also have a few rubber domes laying around; two eMachines/Chicony KB-0108, an old disgustingly dirty Compaq SK-2505, that HP KB-0603 that I haven't yet put back together and likely never will...


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Who, me?

Four mechanicals:
Cherry G80-8200LPDUS
Cherry G84-4100PPAUS
Compaq MX11800
IBM Model M 1391401 1988

Though I'm giving away the G84 and considering selling the Compaq.

I also have a few rubber domes laying around; two eMachines/Chicony KB-0108, an old disgustingly dirty Compaq SK-2505, that HP KB-0603 that I haven't yet put back together and likely never will...


I think he was asking Crazy9000.


----------



## Marin

Is your name Crazy?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


Is your name Crazy?










I don't know, he could have been meaning, "That's crazy" or, "You're crazy".


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


Crazy, just out of curiosity how many keyboards do you have?


I've had a bunch, but I just have a Deck fire and a blank Das (not model S) at the moment. I also recently ordered a realforce because I've never tried the topre switches.

I try not to keep more keyboards then I use, lol.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *videoman5*


Would you mind uploading that script?










Ok, here's my pathetic noob script. I know I kind of did it the hard way







.

disclaimer: numerous flaws

Code:


Code:


NumpadSub::
if getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
{
send {volume_up}
}
else if not getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
send {up}
return

NumpadAdd::
if getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
{
send {volume_down}
}
else if not getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
send {down}
return

Numpad4::
if getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
{
Run %ProgramFiles%\\foobar2000\\foobar2000.exe /prev
}
else if not getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
send {4}
return

Numpad5::
if getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
{
Run %ProgramFiles%\\foobar2000\\foobar2000.exe /playpause
}
else if not getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
send {5}
return

Numpad6::
if getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
{
Run %ProgramFiles%\\foobar2000\\foobar2000.exe /next
}
else if not getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
send {6}
return

Obviously 456 only work in foobar2000. I found that line on a autohotkey thread somewhere. The flaw with that way is that when scroll lock is off I had to change it to 456 (not numpad4 numpad5 numpad6), so technically I can't use the actual numpad numbers. If you change it back to numpad numbers it gets stuck in an infinite loop.

The same should be done with +-. It's actually set so that +- become arrow up and down, that was just left over from when I had up and down controlling volume but I didn't like that as much.

I think I'm going to go revise this now














.


----------



## videoman5

Crap. I use Songbird. Which I find to take on the best properties of all the music players.

I'll use the audio part though. REP++


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *videoman5* 
Crap. I use Songbird. Which I find to take on the best properties of all the music players.

I'll use the audio part though. REP++

I'm sure there's a way to do it with songbird too. There's a discussion board on the autohotkey site. Try searching there.

Something fun to try, might be a good prank

Code:



Code:


::spoon::there is no spoon

Come to think of it, autohotkey could be really good for really messing with someone. Something like these

Code:



Code:


:C:i::
Send {Raw} Hold shift and press this button again lazy!
Sleep,2000
Loop,45
{
Send {Backspace}
}
return

:C:I::
Msgbox Do not press this button selfish!
return

::spoon::
Msgbox Fatal Error: there is no spoon.
return

Try them, you know you want too


----------



## Maytan

Speaking of autohotkey, I tried to map the right windows key to Shift+Tab. It won't work in games (I wanted to use it to bring up Steam overlay) for some reason.....


----------



## ihatelolcats

Is there anywhere to get left-handed mechanical keyboards other than here:
http://www.fentek-ind.com/modular.htm#kblhusbsb ?
That one would be about $120 which is about double what I would like to spend.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *drjoey1500* 
Ok, here's my pathetic noob script. I know I kind of did it the hard way







.

disclaimer: numerous flaws

Code:



Code:


NumpadSub::
if getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
{
send {volume_up}
}
else if not getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
send {up}
return

NumpadAdd::
if getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
{
send {volume_down}
}
else if not getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
send {down}
return

Numpad4::
if getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
{
Run %ProgramFiles%\\foobar2000\\foobar2000.exe /prev
}
else if not getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
send {4}
return

Numpad5::
if getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
{
Run %ProgramFiles%\\foobar2000\\foobar2000.exe /playpause
}
else if not getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
send {5}
return

Numpad6::
if getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
{
Run %ProgramFiles%\\foobar2000\\foobar2000.exe /next
}
else if not getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
send {6}
return

Obviously 456 only work in foobar2000. I found that line on a autohotkey thread somewhere. The flaw with that way is that when scroll lock is off I had to change it to 456 (not numpad4 numpad5 numpad6), so technically I can't use the actual numpad numbers. If you change it back to numpad numbers it gets stuck in an infinite loop.

The same should be done with +-. It's actually set so that +- become arrow up and down, that was just left over from when I had up and down controlling volume but I didn't like that as much.

I think I'm going to go revise this now














.

Why do you need

Code:



Code:


else if not getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")

Would't a simple *else* suffice? It seems that the line is mostly unnecessary. You want it to run foobar commands if the the getkeystate is what you set it to, then *else* then normal key code.

At least that's the way it seems to me. Never worked with autohotkey


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ihatelolcats*


Is there anywhere to get left-handed mechanical keyboards other than here:
http://www.fentek-ind.com/modular.htm#kblhusbsb ?
That one would be about $120 which is about double what I would like to spend.


It's a few dollars cheaper if you buy it direct from DSI's store http://www.notestation.com/left.htm, but I don't think left handed keyboards are very popular, since there's really no reason you would need the numpad and arrows on the left side.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Why do you need

Code:


Code:


else if not getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")

Would't a simple *else* suffice? It seems that the line is mostly unnecessary. You want it to run foobar commands if the the getkeystate is what you set it to, then *else* then normal key code.

At least that's the way it seems to me. Never worked with autohotkey


I don't remember exactly. I think else wasn't working or something.


----------



## ihatelolcats

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
It's a few dollars cheaper if you buy it direct from DSI's store http://www.notestation.com/left.htm, but I don't think left handed keyboards are very popular, since there's really no reason you would need the numpad and arrows on the left side.

Thanks

I could use a keyboard without numpad instead of left-handed. The ones from filco are way too much money though. I've been looking around for some cheaper, like less than $100, but haven't found any.


----------



## Kaankin

Well pps here is that Thermaltake KB but with added goodies.
http://www.engadget.com/photos/therm...ds-on/#3042144

Well Engadget says its clicky mechanical but i don't know, what you guys think?


----------



## videoman5

Anyone know what kind of keys that a Model-M uses? I would fancy some custom keys.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Contact Fentek Plastics or Unicomp, the Model M (and relatives) have their own style of keycaps, and you can get them either one piece or two.


----------



## ihatelolcats

anyone heard of a cherry ivory key switch?
http://www.notestation.com/specs/KB-8861XP.pdf
i don't see it listed on the first page


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ihatelolcats*


anyone heard of a cherry ivory key switch?
http://www.notestation.com/specs/KB-8861XP.pdf
i don't see it listed on the first page


I think they mean the color of the print on the keyboard or something like that. It just says cherry switches, doesn't specify the type.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ihatelolcats*


anyone heard of a cherry ivory key switch?
http://www.notestation.com/specs/KB-8861XP.pdf
i don't see it listed on the first page


Might be a different way of referring to Cherry clears.

I'm actually digging that lefty layout to be honest. Having the number pad over there is a great idea. Not keen on the half-size backspace though.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ihatelolcats*


anyone heard of a cherry ivory key switch?
http://www.notestation.com/specs/KB-8861XP.pdf
i don't see it listed on the first page


In addition to calling them Cherry MX Clears, they have also been called Cherry MX Whites.


----------



## ihatelolcats

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn*


Might be a different way of referring to Cherry clears.

I'm actually digging that lefty layout to be honest. Having the number pad over there is a great idea. Not keen on the half-size backspace though.


oooh... I hadn't noticed the half-size backspace. Oh well. 
Thanks, I bet you're right about the clears


----------



## CJRhoades

Could someone here recommend a few good (and <$75) mechanical keyboards that can be used for both typing and gaming?

I'm here because of this:
http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ml#post9579657

I'm sure most of the mechanical keyboard experts here understand....


----------



## Crazy9000

The ivory is not descriptive of the key switch. It says with cherry key switches, ivory







.

It sounds like blues to me: 



!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


The ivory is not descriptive of the key switch. It says with cherry key switches, ivory







.

It sounds like blues to me: 



!


What do you mean? I don't see or hear any evidence that suggests the Cherry MX Blues.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
What do you mean? I don't see or hear any evidence that suggests the Cherry MX Blues.

The click when she presses the key sounds like the blues to me, that's all. Pretty noisy here at the shop though.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
The click when she presses the key sounds like the blues to me, that's all.

I thought that she just brushed her fingers on the keys as opposed to actually pressing them.

*Edit:* I just noticed, and yes: those are absolutely without a doubt the Cherry MX Blues.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I thought that she just brushed her fingers on the keys as opposed to actually pressing them.

Go to about 20 seconds in, she presses a few down, lol.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Go to about 20 seconds in, she presses a few down, lol.

You type slowly, don't you?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
You type slowly, don't you?









I just hit quote then don't type at all for a min or two sometimes







. Nice to have some confirmation, I guess that answers what switches they are then.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I just hit quote then don't type at all for a min or two sometimes







. Nice to have some confirmation, I guess that answers what switches they are then.

Yeah, if anyone would know, then it's me. I mean, I'm the geek who keeps recommending everyone use YouTube videos to help select a switch, so I know exactly how the MX Blues sound in YouTube videos; and those are definitely it.


----------



## papant7

Do all Cherry (branded) keyboards contain mechanical switches. I know for a fact that most cherry switches are branded as others like steelseries, etc. But I am just wondering if maybe cherry is using membrane or other type of technology for their own brand.

Like this one

Just in case they do contain mech. switches what kind? (color)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *papant7*


Do all Cherry (branded) keyboards contain mechanical switches. I know for a fact that most cherry switches are branded as others like steelseries, etc. But I am just wondering if maybe cherry is using membrane or other type of technology for their own brand.

Like this one

Just in case they do contain mech. switches what kind? (color)


I can tell by looking at this keyboard that it's either that's a Scissor-Switch keyboard, or just a plain rubber dome one. But Cherry does have keyboards that use the Cherry MX switches.


----------



## papant7

So what can you say about it? especially this model


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *papant7*


So what can you say about it? especially this model










Based on the "> 10 million operations" (greater than 10 million operations) in the specifications - which is referring to each key individually (greater than 10 million keypresses for just 1 key) - I would say that it's a scissor-switch keyboard.

However, it could also be a mechanical keyboard with the Cherry MY switches (or is it ML? I forgot!).

But I'm just vamping until somebody gets here who knows the final answer.


----------



## papant7

I really do hope that this one is a mechanical keyboard. BTW I am currently using an ancient keyboard. A keyboard my dad bought way back from Pentium II days and is making my fingers hurt like hell. I think this one is a spring type based on the noise and pressure I need to do just in order to press the keys properly. Anyway here in the Philippines, the 7G is the ONLY mech keyboard I have seen to be for sale here. It really sucks for me. Good thing I found this item on ebay which has a quite cheap shipping rate. Unlike those who ship with 2x the price of the orignal item. Costs as much as a midrange processor.


----------



## Crazy9000

It's a rubber dome keyboard. According to Cherry, this is how the classify their switches:

Quote:



Cherry keyboards offer one of three basic technologies:
• Keyboards with mechanical individual modules on circuit board (MX and ML)
• Keyboards with mechanical individual keys on contact membrane (FTSC)
• Keyboards with keys integrated in the housing and elastomer dome on contact membrane (NTK, ATK, LPK, SX)
All technologies, whether mechanical or elastomer keys, are characterized by extremely long operating life and
guarantee reliable working performance under high operational demands. All Cherry keyboards come with
high-contrast, anti-fading key inscriptions.


It says that keyboard uses LPK, which would be a type of rubber dome.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *papant7*


I really do hope that this one is a mechanical keyboard. BTW I am currently using an ancient keyboard. A keyboard my dad bought way back from Pentium II days and is making my fingers hurt like hell. I think this one is a spring type based on the noise and pressure I need to do just in order to press the keys properly. Anyway here in the Philippines, the 7G is the ONLY mech keyboard I have seen to be for sale here. It really sucks for me. Good thing I found this item on ebay which has a quite cheap shipping rate. Unlike those who ship with 2x the price of the orignal item. Costs as much as a midrange processor.


Is it a Buckling Spring switch type of keyboard? I mean, I recommend that you YouTube some videos using searches like "buckling spring", "IBM Model M", "Unicomp Customizer", "Unicomp SpaceSaver" and compare the sound to the sound of the keyboard you're using.

This way, we can get a general idea of what kind of key feel you might like the most. This way we can help you select the best key switch for you.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


Could someone here recommend a few good (and <$75) mechanical keyboards that can be used for both typing and gaming?

I'm here because of this:
http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ml#post9579657

I'm sure most of the mechanical keyboard experts here understand....


Hmm... Tough to say. From what I've read, look for a cherry brown board on ebay, like the compaq mx11800.

For only gaming I highly recommend linear switches. If you have a lot of patience and like to mod, I modded a dell at101w. You can remove the part of the switch that gives it a tactile feel, and turn it into a linear switch. I did that and added some foam under the keycaps and I will say it is amazing for gaming. Typing, not so much. The stock feel isn't great for gaming. It's better for typing at stock, but even then it's loud and its hard not to bottom out the keys (IMO). Just be warned, dell keys don't like dye, so try to get a black one. Put it this way, I'm happy with the feel of my modded dell for gaming, but I don't care for either version for typing. I mean it's fine, but I think there is a better switch for me.

I'd guess cherry MY switches (cherry g81 boards IIRC) would be good for gaming too because of the exponential force curve. TBH that's why I love my dell so much for gaming. The foam pieces I put under the keys give them a really springy feel which is awesome in games. Non-tactile springy switches aren't the best for typing though, they are hard on the fingers, and sometimes I don't hit a key right because I didn't press the key down far enough.

I've read mx blacks are also good for gaming. There are plenty of cherry mx black boards on ebay too. Just look on ebay for cherry g80's (info on finding which switches here. Scroll down, there is info on what the model numbers mean.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

MY keys have a really mushy feel, extremely slow rebound time, and are heavy to actuate. They may be the worst form of keyboard switch ever devised for typing or gaming; the five minutes I spent typing on the G81 keyboard behind the counter at the Sprint store convinced me of that.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
MY keys have a really mushy feel, extremely slow rebound time, and are heavy to actuate. They may be the worst form of keyboard switch ever devised for typing or gaming; the five minutes I spent typing on the G81 keyboard behind the counter at the Sprint store convinced me of that.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## ihatelolcats

ok, so how bad are blue switches for wasd gaming?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ihatelolcats*


ok, so how bad are blue switches for wasd gaming?


They aren't technically bad but the feel is ultimately up to the user.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ihatelolcats*


ok, so how bad are blue switches for wasd gaming?


the reset point is higher than the actuation point in Cherry MX Blue switches so you have to lift off your finger when you double tap spacebar, sprinting, strafing, etc. it's annoying if you are the type that keeps your finger pressed down I also find the tactile response is annoying but that is subjective.


----------



## thisispatrick

Hey Christine (since you're so knowledgeable in these peripheral things) or anyone else here, is there any recommended products to remove scratches? I already eyed like a few on my Das and don't want it to become visually unappealing one day.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Hey Christine (since you're so knowledgeable in these peripheral things) or anyone else here, is there any recommended products to remove scratches? I already eyed like a few on my Das and don't want it to become visually unappealing one day.


yes. this.


----------



## Manyak

+1 to Novus, it works wonders on acrylic


----------



## Syrillian

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


+1 to Novus, it works wonders on acrylic


OMG!

Listen to that man!

Novus products are


----------



## thisispatrick

Haha alright thanks guys! AND Christine.


----------



## CJRhoades

Ok, I'm pretty sure I want a keyboard with the Cherry Brown switches but I'm having trouble finding keyboards with them for <$75. Any recommendations?


----------



## KipH

I are sleepy but I wanted to tell a bit about the Thermaltake boards. There are 2. #1 is an I-rocks with black switches but the same layout exactly and red trimmings a la Thermaltake.

The other has full NKRO and anti ghosting over USB (so they say)!

The guy I talked to seemed to know his stuff and answered my questions. They call it Anti-ghosting but use the ghosting and NKRO properly out of the "headlines". He claims that the poling rate was requested by the pro-gamers. I guess its more for multi key presses and one key can not be pressed that fast.

Get ready for USB3 to rock your socks off, making SSDs obsolete. Also save up to buy a gold rated power supply, they are hitting 90+ now


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


Ok, I'm pretty sure I want a keyboard with the Cherry Brown switches but I'm having trouble finding keyboards with them for <$75. Any recommendations?


you won't find anything new for that price.


----------



## KipH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


Ok, I'm pretty sure I want a keyboard with the Cherry Brown switches but I'm having trouble finding keyboards with them for <$75. Any recommendations?


I-rocks KR-6230







or the Thermaltake version. They will be $80 to $90, but for $10 more the are worth it.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
you won't find anything new for that price.

I've found new ones with other switches for that price. Are the brown switches just more expensive?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


I've found new ones with other switches for that price. Are the brown switches just more expensive?


no.


----------



## Crazy9000

http://www.provantage.com/cherry-ele...u~7CHER0FT.htm

I think this one has browns for $70.

(edit) It might be blacks, but those are decent too


----------



## CJRhoades

I think I'm going to order this: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...&pid=fkb104meb

I'm trying to think of reasons as to why I really need it though.


----------



## Crazy9000

I think the das is around the same price if that 15% off code still works, if you haven't compared the two yet.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
http://www.provantage.com/cherry-ele...u~7CHER0FT.htm

I think this one has browns for $70.

(edit) It might be blacks, but those are decent too









Cherry MX Black Linear, 2-Key rollover, PCB mounted.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

What matrix does the non-NKRO Filco use?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ihatelolcats*


ok, so how bad are blue switches for wasd gaming?


It can really depend on how serious of a gamer you are. If you have spent a great deal of time perfecting your technique and need a keyboard that can be considered perfect for the gamer who has perfected and polished her/her technique, then yeah I say avoid the Cherry MX Blues and go with the Cherry MX Blacks. But if you are like me and haven't spent any time polishing your gaming technique and prefer to just have fun, then the Cherry MX Blues are an option to consider. Manyak and others who have more than one mechanical keyboard have expressed a preference for the Cherry MX Blues for gaming.

So how serious of a gamer are you?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


Ok, I'm pretty sure I want a keyboard with the Cherry Brown switches but I'm having trouble finding keyboards with them for <$75. Any recommendations?


Again, try to go with a used or even a refurbished keyboard. You'll be able to end up with a really good, previously-expensive mechanical keyboard this way.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


I think I'm going to order this: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...&pid=fkb104meb

I'm trying to think of reasons as to why I really need it though.


Yeah, I had to do the same thing. I thought about it for more than a couple of weeks.







It's a very important decision, and you are actually going in the right direction.

Have you used YouTube to listen to and watch people use their mechanical keyboards?


----------



## ihatelolcats

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


It can really depend on how serious of a gamer you are. If you have spent a great deal of time perfecting your technique and need a keyboard that can be considered perfect for the gamer who has perfected and polished her/her technique, then yeah I say avoid the Cherry MX Blues and go with the Cherry MX Blacks. But if you are like me and haven't spent any time polishing your gaming technique and prefer to just have fun, then the Cherry MX Blues are an option to consider. Manyak and others who have more than one mechanical keyboard have expressed a preference for the Cherry MX Blues for gaming.

So how serious of a gamer are you?

Again, try to go with a used or even a refurbished keyboard. You'll be able to end up with a really good, previously-expensive mechanical keyboard this way.

Yeah, I had to do the same thing. I thought about it for more than a couple of weeks.







It's a very important decision, and you are actually going in the right direction.

Have you used YouTube to listen to and watch people use their mechanical keyboards?


great, this is exactly the information i needed. i think the blue switches will be just want i want and need.


----------



## Crazy9000

I don't think the blues are a good option even for someone just having fun, if it's anything like a FPS even, where you move a character or vehicle around.

I probably would have never tried a mechanical keyboard again if the first one I got had blues, because of how terrible they are for gaming. I strongly suggest just going with the brown switches at least.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I don't think the blues are a good option even for someone just having fun, if it's anything like a FPS even, where you move a character or vehicle around.

I probably would have never tried a mechanical keyboard again if the first one I got had blues, because of how terrible they are for gaming. I strongly suggest just going with the brown switches at least.


But a few regulars in this thread prefer the Cherry MX Blues for gaming.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


I think I'm going to order this: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...&pid=fkb104meb

I'm trying to think of reasons as to why I really need it though.


It's true, use the Das 15% off code and get the Das like Crazy9000 recommended if you're going to spend that much. Higher quality plastics, free shipping, 30 day return policy if you decide not to keep it, also the Das has NKRO and that Filco doesn't.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ihatelolcats*


ok, so how bad are blue switches for wasd gaming?


It's terrible, you will cry in a corner after playing with it.

Okay, in all seriousness, I take the stance of those who don't recommend them for gaming. Yes, there are people who prefer them over blacks and browns for gaming. There are also people who prefer Honda Civics over other sports cars. The subjective element sometimes has a greater pull than the objective. Having one of us go into detail about how they sound or feel shouldn't be why you buy blues or browns. You need to test out these keyboards for yourself. No matter how many reviews you read or clips you listen to on youtube, nothing will substitute the actual experience using these switches.

So, do you have a Fry's or Microcenter near you? Fry's has Steelseries 7Gs ( Cherry Blacks ) and SIIG Mechanical Keyboards ( Cherry Blues ). Microcenter has Das and SIIG Cherry Blues. I strongly recommend you try these keyboards for yourself. Also remember the Das store has a 30-day return policy, do not just settle for a switch based on what others tell you. Make your own decision after trying out these different switches.


----------



## Marin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I don't think the blues are a good option even for someone just having fun, if it's anything like a FPS even, where you move a character or vehicle around.

I probably would have never tried a mechanical keyboard again if the first one I got had blues, because of how terrible they are for gaming. I strongly suggest just going with the brown switches at least.

I find blues to be amazing for gaming but then again they match my "playing style" (if that makes sense). I've been using blues for stuff like TF2 Pug and they're awesome.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


I find blues to be amazing for gaming but then again they match my "playing style" (if that makes sense). I've been using blues for stuff like TF2 Pug and they're awesome.


Out of curiousity. What is your "play style"? FWIW, I know a few cevo-p/esea-i TF2 players who are real life friends. One of them is a mechanical KB enthusiast, he felt non-linears really limited his movement options ( he plays pocket soldier ). My biggest problem with the blues is that I have to completely lift my finger off a key in order to press that key again.

Anyways, I know you've tried the M1, how did you like that for gaming ( switch feel wise, I know the rollover capabilities on it suck ). Also, this goes out for those who prefer blues ( minus Manyak ), have you guys tried blacks or browns yet? Not to put anyone on blast, just want to know what your impression of other switch types are for gaming ( Manyak already gave out his impression on this ).


----------



## Marin

I've always lifted my fingers off the keys when playing unless it's a necessity to do otherwise. So for roaming and pocket soldier, it works fine (really, the only class that needs to double tap would be scout and even then there's enough time to lift the finger completely). And I do like the tactile feedback and click for rocket jumping.

The M1 was decent but I didn't like it for gaming, but that's more towards the overall build quality of the keyboard.

I've used blacks recently and they're definitely nice for gaming. But for typing, uggg...


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I find browns to be great for gaming. The tactile bump is noticeable enough to be pleasant while typing, while not so obtrusive to get in the way of gaming. It was a bit annoying while gaming when the board was brand new, but after a week of breaking it in any problems with gaming from the tactile bump are gone.

I haven't tried a true linear board yet, but I believe the extremely worn browns on my MX11800 come within sight of MX reds (40g linear). I didn't feel any real benefit over MX browns, though I could see why someone picky might.


----------



## Crazy9000

Here is a short video I just made of me playing with both the das and the deck. IDK if it will help too much though, but just in case here it is:


Windows Media Player Videos

And yes, I know my room is messy







.


----------



## Marin

I should do that.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
I've always lifted my fingers off the keys when playing unless it's a necessity to do otherwise. So for roaming and pocket soldier, it works fine (really, the only class that needs to double tap would be scout and even then there's enough time to life the finger completely). And I do like the tactile feedback and click for rocket jumping.

The M1 was decent but I didn't like it for gaming, but that's more towards the overall build quality of the keyboard.

I've used blacks recently and they're definitely nice for gaming. But for typing, uggg...

I personally try not to lift off my fingers completely and find double tapping useful for movement related tasks such as repeated crouching during jumps and RJs. I use mb2 for jump in TF2, I just personally feel its easier to time index + middle finger hits on the same hand for better RJs.


----------



## psy4fun

Filco Majestouch still have problems with keycaps becoming smooth and shiny relatively quickly?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *psy4fun* 
Filco Majestouch still have problems with keycaps becoming smooth and shiny relatively quickly?

yes.


----------



## Marin

I want this.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=10219

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ligo*


----------



## psy4fun

Oh, thank you. Filco has problems and Das don't ship internationally.









Found two Cherry MX Blue in eBay which can be shipped internationally: Adesso MKB-135B Pro and an iOne Scorpius M10.

Which one is a good substitute for a Das S Professional or Filco Majestouch?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
yes.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Woah HH looks nice.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *psy4fun*


Oh, thank you. Filco has problems and Das don't ship internationally.









Found two Cherry MX Blue in eBay which can be shipped internationally: Adesso MKB-135B Pro and an iOne Scorpius M10.

Which one is a good substitute for a Das S Professional or Filco Majestouch?


neither. where do you live?


----------



## psy4fun

I live in Brazil. I'll try to find a reseller. Thank you very much.


----------



## psy4fun

Hmm, looks like my options are narrowing. Someone told me Das has the same problem: the keys started to wear off and look shiny after only a couple of month.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
It's true, use the Das 15% off code and get the Das like Crazy9000 recommended if you're going to spend that much. Higher quality plastics, free shipping, 30 day return policy if you decide not to keep it, also the Das has NKRO and that Filco doesn't.

Where/what is the code? Or is the sale price on Sidewinder the 15% off?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


Where/what is the code? Or is the sale price on Sidewinder the 15% off?


no Metadot online store. not sure if the coupon code is still valid. it brings the Das Model S Silent to $115 and the Das Model S Professional to $110 but Sidewinders sells the Das Model S Professional at $110 anyhow.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
no Metadot online store. not sure if the coupon code is still valid. it brings the Das Model S Silent to $115 and the Das Model S Professional to $110 but Sidewinders sells the Das Model S Professional at $110 anyhow.

$110 yes, but an additional $15 for shipping and taxes. Is the shipping free from metadot?

EDIT: It appears that it's no longer available in the Das store. I'll just have to order from Sidewinder.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


$110 yes, but an additional $15 for shipping and taxes. Is the shipping free from metadot?


I bought my Das in a retail store but I would play it safe and say no.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I bought my Das in a retail store but I would play it safe and say no.

My shipping was free.


----------



## fancysocks

I've looked around a bit but haven't found anything regarding plastic or silicone covers for the mechanical keyboards mentioned in this thread. Are they just not that popular? Or do they interfere with the whole tactile clicking experience?

I noticed that Unicomp does sell covers and am considering the Endurapro and asking if I can order black keycaps. I really really like the Filco tenkeyless and the HHKB though. I love the minimalist look and mechanical functionality. I just really hate having the paint/finish/lettering come off or having dirt fall into the cracks. I did see that I could request matte keycaps for the Filco that wouldn't wear as fast, but having a keyboard cover just seems easier.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fancysocks*


I've looked around a bit but haven't found anything regarding plastic or silicone covers for the mechanical keyboards mentioned in this thread. Are they just not that popular? Or do they interfere with the whole tactile clicking experience?

I noticed that Unicomp does sell covers and am considering the Endurapro and asking if I can order black keycaps. I really really like the Filco tenkeyless and the HHKB though. I love the minimalist look and mechanical functionality. I just really hate having the paint/finish/lettering come off or having dirt fall into the cracks. I did see that I could request matte keycaps for the Filco that wouldn't wear as fast, but having a keyboard cover just seems easier.


I can't imagine having one of those sanitary covers on my keyboard. I think it would completely destroy the feel. I am a drummer, so I'll make this analogy: I think it would be like trying to play while wearing thick winter gloves on a cheap black rubber pad electronic drumset as opposed to holding the sticks with my bare hands and playing on a well-tuned drum set.

Besides, I just vacuum my keyboard a couple times a day or more (whenever I see any debris, actually) using a special horse hair brush attachment. The horse hair is gentle enough on the keyboard that I can do this, and it's about 1Â½" long which makes it great for cleaning my keyboard.

I've had my keyboard since 3/9/10, and it's still 100% perfectly clean (although I think I may need to wash the keycaps soon, but I'm not sure yet).


----------



## psy4fun

Did you remember in which store you bought it?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I bought my Das in a retail store but I would play it safe and say no.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fancysocks*


I've looked around a bit but haven't found anything regarding plastic or silicone covers for the mechanical keyboards mentioned in this thread. Are they just not that popular? Or do they interfere with the whole tactile clicking experience?

I noticed that Unicomp does sell covers and am considering the Endurapro and asking if I can order black keycaps. I really really like the Filco tenkeyless and the HHKB though. I love the minimalist look and mechanical functionality. I just really hate having the paint/finish/lettering come off or having dirt fall into the cracks. I did see that I could request matte keycaps for the Filco that wouldn't wear as fast, but having a keyboard cover just seems easier.


I agree with twocables. I couldn't even imagine having one of those covers on all the time. It completely defeats the purpose of having a nice keyboard. Its like leaving a plastic cover on a nice leather couch. Whats the point in getting leather if you're not going to enjoy it?

Just try to get good keycaps. Get blanks, laser etched, or double shot if you can. Those don't wear out as much as the pad printed ones like the filcos (correct me if I'm wrong).


----------



## Maytan

I'd use one of those covers just to keep dust out when I'm not using it.


----------



## JaYp146

Hey guys,
*
Which keyboard would you recommend for a budget of approximately $50*? I absolutely adore my IBM Model M, but my roommate can't tolerate the noise. Currently have a Logitech Wave (I love the media keys), but its tactility leaves much to be desired.

I've looked into the iOne Scorpius but have been put off by issues with its cheap PCB. The ABS M1 seems too loud and too much of a knockoff. I'd very much prefer to at least have a Windows key (another reason I can't use my Model M).

Heck, even something similar to my ThinkPad T60's keyboard would be just grand ....

Maybe something like this Cherry board? http://cgi.ebay.com/CHERRY-G80-11900...#ht_500wt_1091 According to someone on geekhack.org, this board uses MX Black switches.


----------



## Tator Tot

I've not used, but I've heard some good things about the Keytronic Designer 2


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JaYp146*


Hey guys,
*
Which keyboard would you recommend for a budget of approximately $50*? I absolutely adore my IBM Model M, but my roommate can't tolerate the noise. Currently have a Logitech Wave (I love the media keys), but its tactility leaves much to be desired.

I've looked into the iOne Scorpius but have been put off by issues with its cheap PCB. The ABS M1 seems too loud and too much of a knockoff. I'd very much prefer to at least have a Windows key (another reason I can't use my Model M).

Heck, even something similar to my ThinkPad T60's keyboard would be just grand ....

Maybe something like this Cherry board? http://cgi.ebay.com/CHERRY-G80-11900...#ht_500wt_1091 According to someone on geekhack.org, this board uses MX Black switches.


Cherry MX Blue, Black and Simplified Alps in Black are not exactly a downgrade in decibel level not to mention Black are Linear.

you are looking for something tactile and quiet you might want to take a look at the Keytronic thread over at geekhack.


----------



## CJRhoades

Hey guys, a question for you. I ordered a Das Model S Professional keyboard from Sidewinder computers a few days ago. I just got an email from them saying that they were out of the Model S and are instead sending the original Das Professional Keyboard. They said they were about identical, cost the same, and if I didn't like the original, I could send it back and they would exchange it for the Model S.

So my question is, what's the difference between the two?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CJRhoades* 
Hey guys, a question for you. I ordered a Das Model S Professional keyboard from Sidewinder computers a few days ago. I just got an email from them saying that they were out of the Model S and are instead sending the original Das Professional Keyboard. They said they were about identical, cost the same, and if I didn't like the original, I could send it back and they would exchange it for the Model S.

So my question is, what's the difference between the two?

Das Professional has a transposition problem, pad printed keycaps and the USB Hub and Keyboard are on 1 USB Cable. I would definitely order the Das Model S Professional from the Metadot store instead it's $129 with Free Shipping.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Das Professional has a transposition problem, pad printed keycaps and the USB Hub and Keyboard are on 1 USB Cable. I would definitely order the Das Model S Professional from the Metadot store instead it's $129 with Free Shipping.

Ah ok. I just gave them a call and they said they would just sit on the order until next week when they get more Model S keyboards in stock.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CJRhoades* 
Ah ok. I just gave them a call and they said they would just sit on the order until next week when they get more Model S keyboards in stock.

seriously you rather wait a week than to pay a extra $4 to order it from the Metadot store? the Metadot store has a 30 day return policy, Sidewinders does as well but a 15% re-stocking fee I believe.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
seriously you rather wait a week than to pay a extra $4 to order it from the Metadot store? the Metadot store has a 30 day return policy, Sidewinders does as well but a 15% re-stocking fee I believe.

The one on metadot doesn't have multimedia keys.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


The one on metadot doesn't have multimedia keys.


they probably won't either if they are getting a new shipment from Metadot.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
they probably won't either if they are getting a new shipment from Metadot.

Hmm... I dunno. I guess I'll find out in a week. Why would they get rid of multimedia and replace with another windows key on the left side? I'm always hitting that stupid thing in games.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


Hmm... I dunno. I guess I'll find out in a week. Why would they get rid of multimedia and replace with another windows key on the left side? I'm always hitting that stupid thing in games.


people have e-mailed Metadot to ask why they discontinued the Media Key layout and they give no answer.

you can disable the L-Windows Key with software.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


Ah ok. I just gave them a call and they said they would just sit on the order until next week when they get more Model S keyboards in stock.


But they were selling the last of their stock of the old Model S boards that had the media keys. Now that they are out and now that they're going to be getting more shipped from Metadot, they will be getting the new models that do not have any media keys.

So, I agree with Christine: just cancel the order altogether and order one from the store on DasKeyboards.com. After all, it's $129 shipped, and it's going to be the exact same keyboard that Sidewinder will be shipping to you once they get those new ones in. After all, the ones with the media keys have been discontinued.


----------



## lmnop

if you order from Metadot directly try the 15% off coupon code *DASKC3NI* (use at checkout) might still be valid bringing the Das Model S Professional down to $110. it's been 2 weeks.


----------



## Maytan

http://cgi.ebay.com/FILCO-Majestouch...item2a07afc897

Good deal IMO.

EDIT: Worth taking a shot at? I made some more extra money, why not start a collection?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


http://cgi.ebay.com/FILCO-Majestouch...item2a07afc897

Good deal IMO.

EDIT: Worth taking a shot at? I made some more extra money, why not start a collection?


$100 I wouldn't.


----------



## Maytan

Alright. I'll buy myself a new game instead.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Alright. I'll buy myself a new game instead.


there are lots of other keyboards to choose from with Cherry MX Black Linear switches.

here is a good eBay ad.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
there are lots of other keyboards to choose from with Cherry MX Black Linear switches.

here is a good eBay ad.

That's a very interesting item. I'll keep my eye on it. Thanks for the pointer.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
That's a very interesting item. I'll keep my eye on it. Thanks for the pointer.

there is only 4 hours left that is a rare Alps keyboard. didjamatic is a respected member at geekhack. buy it!


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But they were selling the last of their stock of the old Model S boards that had the media keys. Now that they are out and now that they're going to be getting more shipped from Metadot, they will be getting the new models that do not have any media keys.

So, I agree with Christine: just cancel the order altogether and order one from the store on DasKeyboards.com. After all, it's $129 shipped, and it's going to be the exact same keyboard that Sidewinder will be shipping to you once they get those new ones in. After all, the ones with the media keys have been discontinued.

Ok, I sent an email to sidewinder asking them to cancel my order. Should I wait until they confirm it to order from metadot or do you think it'd be ok to go ahead and order?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
if you order from Metadot directly try the 15% off coupon code *DASKC3NI* (use at checkout) might still be valid bringing the Das Model S Professional down to $110. it's been 2 weeks.

Thanks, I'll try it.

EDIT: Since I'm ordering from metadot, I'm wondering if I should get the ultimate version. I'm a pretty efficient touch typist but no inscriptions on the F/number/symbol keys kinda worry me. Anyone know how long it takes to completely learn the positions of those keys? Also, will that coupon go for the ultimate version as well as the professional version?


----------



## Marin

Just got my keys from EliteKeyboards.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
there is only 4 hours left that is a rare Alps keyboard. didjamatic is a respected member at geekhack. buy it!

Didn't notice it was ending so soon. I'll have to set an alarm so I remember before it ends.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CJRhoades* 
Ok, I sent an email to sidewinder asking them to cancel my order. Should I wait until they confirm it to order from metadot or do you think it'd be ok to go ahead and order?

Thanks, I'll try it.

I don't know, so I would say wait. But even if I knew, then I would still wait.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I don't know, so I would say wait. But even if I knew, then I would still wait.

Heh, JUST got the email back from them confirming the cancellation. At least they were quick about it.

My question about learning some of the keys on the ultimate board still stands though. Not sure if I should get it or not...


----------



## lmnop

I have the Das Ultimate. I like Blanks. if the coupon is still valid it will work on any Das Model S including the Silent model. why don't you tell us if it is still valid?









you guys should really try and bid for that Focus 2001.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I have the Das Ultimate. I like Blanks. if the coupon is still valid it will work on any Das Model S including the Silent model.

Well ok then. I'll probably end up frustrated for the first few weeks using it but I suppose I'll eventually get the hang of it. Might even make me a better typist.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
you guys should really try and bid for that Focus 2001.

No need to rally the competition.







(kidding)


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
No need to rally the competition.







(kidding)

lol










the Focus 2001 has double shot keycaps, plate mounted Complicated Alps in White (Clicky) which some people prefer over Cherry MX Blue switches. I have never seen a Black one before. nice addition to any collection. good seller.


----------



## CJRhoades

The coupon isn't valid anymore.

Got myself a nice new keyboard with blank keys coming my way though. I wonder how many days the ground shipping is.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CJRhoades* 
The coupon isn't valid anymore.

I had a feeling it wasn't.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CJRhoades* 
The coupon isn't valid anymore.

Got myself a nice new keyboard with blank keys coming my way though. I wonder how many days the ground shipping is.

Took 3-days for me. Still waiting for my EMA... <_<


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


Heh, JUST got the email back from them confirming the cancellation. At least they were quick about it.

My question about learning some of the keys on the ultimate board still stands though. Not sure if I should get it or not...


Well...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


Well ok then. I'll probably end up frustrated for the first few weeks using it but I suppose I'll eventually get the hang of it. Might even make me a better typist.


If nothing else, it will indeed make you a better typist. I guess the question might be _"Would I rather take the easy way out and go with the printed version, or get the Ultimate, challenge myself, and end up becoming a better typist?"_

I have been Touch Typing for probably 15 years, and when I first started, it was quite a challenge to type without looking at the keyboard. But now it's reversed in a sense: now it's actually a challenge to type while watching the keyboard because it's something that I just don't do. I almost depend on the monitor! I can still close my eyes and type, but it's a bit like removing the proverbial training wheels.

So I guess the question is: _"So why don't you have blank keycaps?"_ For some reason, I like the way it looks from a slight distance. Plus, I'd rather also have a blank red Esc key too. However, I have been considering getting the blank ones from Elite Keyboards, but I don't want to have to deal with the stabilizer bars yet. Besides, I'd rather wait a while so that I will appreciate it more.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Took 3-days for me. Still waiting for my EMA... <_<


Ah, it would be cool if it came Thursday. That way I could get my new mouse, keyboard, and mouse mat all on the same day.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Well...

If nothing else, it will indeed make you a better typist. I guess the question might be _"Would I rather take the easy way out and go with the printed version, or get the Ultimate, challenge myself, and end up becoming a better typist?"_

I have been Touch Typing for probably 15 years, and when I first started, it was quite a challenge to type without looking at the keyboard. But now it's reversed in a sense: now it's actually a challenge to type while watching the keyboard because it's something that I just don't do. I almost depend on the monitor! I can still close my eyes and type, but it's a bit like removing the proverbial training wheels.

So I guess the question is: _"So why don't you have blank keycaps?"_ For some reason, I like the way it looks from a slight distance. Plus, I'd rather also have a blank red Esc key too. However, I have been considering getting the blank ones from Elite Keyboards, but I don't want to have to deal with the stabilizer bars yet. Besides, I'd rather wait a while so that I will appreciate it more.


Thanks, I feel more at ease with my purchase now. Can't wait to get it! I'll finally be able to throw my eMachines keyboard against a wall.


----------



## Marin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


Well ok then. I'll probably end up frustrated for the first few weeks using it but I suppose I'll eventually get the hang of it. Might even make me a better typist.


It's really easy if you can already touch type.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


The coupon isn't valid anymore.

Got myself a nice new keyboard with blank keys coming my way though. I wonder how many days the ground shipping is.


They are located in Austin, Texas, so it will be 2-3 business days.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Well...

If nothing else, it will indeed make you a better typist. I guess the question might be _"Would I rather take the easy way out and go with the printed version, or get the Ultimate, challenge myself, and end up becoming a better typist?"_

I have been Touch Typing for probably 15 years, and when I first started, it was quite a challenge to type without looking at the keyboard. But now it's reversed in a sense: now it's actually a challenge to type while watching the keyboard because it's something that I just don't do. I almost depend on the monitor! I can still close my eyes and type, but it's a bit like removing the proverbial training wheels.

So I guess the question is: _"So why don't you have blank keycaps?"_ For some reason, I like the way it looks from a slight distance. Plus, I'd rather also have a blank red Esc key too. However, I have been considering getting the blank ones from Elite Keyboards, but I don't want to have to deal with the stabilizer bars yet. Besides, I'd rather wait a while so that I will appreciate it more.


I've had a slightly mixed experience with my blank keys. On one hand, it does force you to learn all the symbols, and brackets and all that. However, I do find I'll occasionally try to hit a key or something after/while watching a movie, and my hand isn't on the keyboard. It's a little annoying haveing to position your hands correctly before you can press the right key. I will admit I'm getting better at that too though, I can usually hit the right key even when I'm standing up and the keyboard is upside down to me now.


----------



## meticadpa

http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=621

I'm a serious noob to keyboards, but do you guys - the experts - think that this would be good?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *meticadpa*


http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=621

I'm a serious noob to keyboards, but do you guys - the experts - think that this would be good?


Yeah those are like the Filco boards many of us have already. But they have XM White switches, which has some things you may wish to consider first.

I would suggest by reading here:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6338


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *meticadpa*


http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=621

I'm a serious noob to keyboards, but do you guys - the experts - think that this would be good?


Gaming? Typing? Use is important to switch and board choice.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *meticadpa*


http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=621

I'm a serious noob to keyboards, but do you guys - the experts - think that this would be good?


I'm not one of the experts, but what's your budget? I mean, is it approximately Â£40-Â£50?


----------



## Marin

Wanna' know what sucks.

My PS/2 port is dead.


----------



## lmnop

last minute 7th bidder the Focus FK-2001 sold for $56. someone is going to be happy. the Filco Zero isn't very good it has a transposition problem and the XM switches are pretty unpopular but you don't have alot of options living in the UK I would say save up for a Filco Majestouch.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
Wanna' know what sucks.

My PS/2 port is dead.

.

Sure it's enabled in the BIOS?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
last minute 7th bidder the Focus FK-2001 sold for $56. someone is going to be happy. the Filco Zero isn't very good it has a transposition problem and the XM switches are pretty unpopular but you don't have alot of options living in the UK I would say save up for a Filco Majestouch.

Yeah, price was too high for me. Nice looking keyboard, but I didn't want to spend too much. (once you factor in the $14 shipping.)

EDIT: Aw, forgot to just edit my above post instead of double posting. <_<


----------



## Marin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
.

Sure it's enabled in the BIOS?

Maybe...

<_<

>_>


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Yeah, price was too high for me. Nice looking keyboard, but I didn't want to spend too much. (once you factor in the $14 shipping.)

yet you were willing to spend $100 on a used Filco Majestouch lol that Focus FK-2001 was rare, practically gave it away.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


yet you were willing to spend $100 on a used Filco Majestouch lol that Focus FK-2001 was rare, practically gave it away.


I had roughly $90. I went and bought a game, expecting to get the keyboard cheaper than it ended up being. I'm one of those last second bidders, and I try to bid within the last <10 seconds. When I saw the bid go up I just gave in.


----------



## lmnop

here is didjamatic's other project. Geekhack Space Saver.


----------



## Marin

PS/2 port works. I never pushed the connector in deep enough.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


here is didjamatic's other project. Geekhack Space Saver.


Wow, I like that green actually. What switch type does it use? It says Alps, but what kind?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


PS/2 port works. I never pushed the connector in deep enough.


ASUS Q-Shield strikes again? The darned thing makes my Ethernet cable drop out if you so much as shake it. <_<


----------



## Marin

I don't use the shield. They're a pain to install.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Wow, I like that green actually. What switch type does it use? It says Alps, but what kind?

ASUS Q-Shield strikes again? The darned thing makes my Ethernet cable drop out if you so much as shake it. <_<


I believe they are simplified alps in white, tactile and clicky. plate mounted. the rollover isn't very good. Siig Minitouch is rare. cute keyboard.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


PS/2 port works. I never pushed the connector in deep enough.


Oh, whew. I didn't think it was related to a BIOS setting. I mean, do modern motherboards really have the option to toggle the PS/2 port on and off?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


I don't use the shield. They're a pain to install.


A pain to install? Are they more of a pain to install than the motherboard & CPU?







Or, is the motherboard & CPU combo enough of a pain already that adding the I/O shield sends you to the loony bin?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Oh, whew. I didn't think it was related to a BIOS setting. I mean, do modern motherboards really have the option to toggle the PS/2 port on and off?

A pain to install? Are they more of a pain to install than the motherboard & CPU?







Or, is the motherboard & CPU combo enough of a pain already that adding the I/O shield sends you to the loony bin?


Installing the mobo+CPU is easy. Installing the shield is a PITA, you have to line it up correctly and push it in with those damn springs fighting you, and for what? Worthless.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Installing the mobo+CPU is easy. Installing the shield is a PITA, you have to line it up correctly and push it in with those damn springs fighting you, and for what? Worthless.


Interesting. I mean, I've never had a problem with it so either it's my case, or I'm just a nut-job (too much patience).


----------



## lmnop

newer I/O shields are alright but some older ones are like <pokes you in the chest> give me all your money or you are deader than 2pac.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


newer I/O shields are alright but some older ones are like <pokes you in the chest> give me all your money or you are deader than 2pac.


How old are we talkin' here? Even the I/O shield for my EVGA 680i SLI was fine for me.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I believe they are simplified alps in white, tactile and clicky. plate mounted. the rollover isn't very good. Siig Minitouch is rare. cute keyboard.


Interesting...

On another note, I hated installing my I/O shield. It wouldn't line-up properly. It took me almost 20 minutes to get it lined up as neatly as I wanted it.


----------



## lmnop

I was talking about the sharpness. if I ever go to prison step 1) go to the library and pop the i/o shield off the back of a case to get a shiv. step 2) find the biggest baddest woman I can find lol

do you think you can pull off a colombian necktie with a aol disk?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I was talking about the sharpness. if I ever go to prison step 1) go to the library and pop the i/o shield off the back of a case to get a shiv. step 2) find the biggest baddest woman I can find lol

do you think you can pull off a colombian necktie with a aol disk?


You're right, haha. They are pretty sharp -- ingenious use of the shield too. Not so sure about the necktie, time to call Mythbusters.


----------



## CJRhoades

Does one of the USB ports on the Das Model S Ultimate provide enough power for my Razer Deathadder? I wasn't sure since theres two ports so if the power is divided in half, there might not be enough juice to power up a mouse that has lights and stuff.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


Does one of the USB ports on the Das Model S Ultimate provide enough power for my Razer Deathadder? I wasn't sure since theres two ports so if the power is divided in half, there might not be enough juice to power up a mouse that has lights and stuff.


it should the USB Hub is powered by it's own USB cable.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


it should the USB Hub is powered by it's own USB cable.


Isn't the power still split between the ports?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


Isn't the power still split between the ports?


I don't know. the older Das model had the USB Hub and Keyboard powered through 1 USB Cable and it gave all kinds of problems. the Das Model S USB Hub and Keyboard are powered through separate USB Cables.

that's all I can tell you I don't think you will have problems powering a mouse.


----------



## Crazy9000

I had a light up razer mouse of some sort plugged into mine with no problems. It's the same as using a USB hub, which usually have 4 ports. Pretty much any device should be fine on them.


----------



## lmnop

I think he is asking if it's 500ma/2 ports. ask Maytan might be something like that on the product sheet in the box.

if the old one that Crazy and I have can power a mouse I don't see why the Model S would give you a problem.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I think he is asking if it's 500ma/2 ports. ask Maytan might be something like that on the product sheet in the box.

if the old one that Crazy and I have can power a mouse I don't see why the Model S would give you a problem.


Alrighty then. I still haven't heard anything back from Das about my order. No order status and no tracking number yet...


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


Alrighty then. I still haven't heard anything back from Das about my order. No order status and no tracking number yet...


give it another day.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


give it another day.


This is where I was supposed to order from right? Sorry... I get really nervous when I spend a lot of money on any website but Newegg.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


This is where I was supposed to order from right? Sorry... I get really nervous when I spend a lot of money on any website but Newegg.


no wonder. that is the old store. try and cancel your order, if you can't send them a e-mail. order from here http://store.daskeyboard.com/


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I think he is asking if it's 500ma/2 ports. ask Maytan might be something like that on the product sheet in the box.


I don't recall seeing anything about it on the little slip it comes with. I'll check when my EMA (finally) gets here. God, it's taking forever.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


no wonder. that is the old store. try and cancel your order, if you can't send them a e-mail. order from here http://store.daskeyboard.com/


Ugh.. why would they keep the old store up? When you told me to order from the metadot store I literally typed in "Metadot store" on google and clicked the link that said "daskeyboard store".

-sigh- This'll be the 3rd order I've canceled.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


Ugh.. why would they keep the old store up? When you told me to order from the metadot store I literally typed in "Metadot store" on google and clicked the link that said "daskeyboard store".

-sigh- This'll be the 3rd order I've canceled.


that is probably why the 15% off coupon code didn't work. they created it to celebrate their new store it's powered by Amazon. Metadot is a good company don't worry.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I don't recall seeing anything about it on the little slip it comes with. I'll check when my EMA (finally) gets here. God, it's taking forever.


should of overnight it to them


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


should of overnight it to them










For only $20 more.... Why is shipping so expensive? Sheesh.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


For only $20 more.... Why is shipping so expensive? Sheesh.


I don't like online shopping!


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I don't like online shopping!

Me neither! The only thing that keeps me in the game is A) Availability and B) No taxes.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
that is probably why the 15% off coupon code didn't work. they created it to celebrate their new store it's powered by Amazon. Metadot is a good company don't worry.

should of overnight it to them









I guess I'll wait until tomorrow and if there's still nothing, I'll try to cancel and reorder on the new site.


----------



## Manyak

Whether or not you can run a mouse off the Das's hub is entirely dependent on your PC. It's just a plain passive USB hub just like any other. If your PC gives out at least the standard 500mA over it's port, running a mouse will be easy for it. But a lot of motherboards don't (and front panel ports might end up less simply because of the internal resistance of the wire from the MB to the case).


----------



## josemaster2228

Thanks to this thread and other influences I have made a purchase of a Filco Majestouch and I love it to the very last atom of it. Buying a keyboard like this is such a drastic change in your typing experience. I would recommend pulling the trigger in these if you are considering one, they are just beauties. Thanks again for pulling me from rubber dome hell.


----------



## technodanvan

So...question for you mechanical keyboard gurus.

I just purchased a Das Keyboard Model S Professional Silent and it has not even arrived yet but I want to alter it slightly. Namely, I wish to possess the red 'Escape' key and blue 'WASD' keys that the Filco has. Is there a place I could purchase these to put on my Das?


----------



## Crazy9000

If you get ones for a Filco with the same switches they should fit, but I'm not sure how well they would go with the other keys.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I *think* the Filco and Das have the same sculpting, or very close. But I'm not positive. The Escape will work for sure, it's the WASD I'm not sure about. They'll fit, but the angle of the keycaps might be different, which will make typing a bit odd.


----------



## technodanvan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
If you get ones for a Filco with the same switches they should fit, but I'm not sure how well they would go with the other keys.

Well that's just completely unacceptable. And a really good point.

*sigh*

Might just buy the Filco too and see which one I like more, then *dispose* of the other one.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*


Ugh.. why would they keep the old store up? When you told me to order from the metadot store I literally typed in "Metadot store" on google and clicked the link that said "daskeyboard store".

-sigh- This'll be the 3rd order I've canceled.


But I gave you the link to the store:

http://www.overclock.net/9609722-post4328.html _*(*http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ml#post9609722*)*_

I'm sorry, but I guess I'm realizing that I am kinda bothered that I typed that up for nothing.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But I gave you the link to the store:

http://www.overclock.net/9609722-post4328.html _*(*http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ml#post9609722*)*_

I'm sorry, but I guess I'm realizing that I am kinda bothered that I typed that up for nothing.










Whoops, sorry. I guess I forgot about that post.

Just got an email from Das stating that my order had been shipped but there warehouse was running behind yesterday and they didn't get tracking numbers updated and sent out before they left. Apparently it's fine to still order from the old store.


----------



## lmnop

care to cancel once more?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...STRK:MEBIDX:IT

offer $81 Bob!


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


care to cancel once more?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...STRK:MEBIDX:IT

offer $81 Bob!


Boooo it's white (and I just spent my money on a Razer Mamba. Got it dirt cheap at $75)


----------



## lmnop

$90 and the price is wrong *****!

Razer Mamba has a Philips sensors it's bad juju.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Razer Mamba has a Philips sensors it's bad juju.

I'd argue against this to my last breath. I find the Z-axis to be rather consistent depending on how exactly you lift the mouse. I don't understand why you'd give it slack. I don't think it's bad at all. Certainly not annoying or game breaking in my book.

But this isn't a thread about mice, and I rather not argue anyway. Just a bit grumpy over my EMA. I was told it'd take up to two weeks. We're half way now.









/impatience

EDIT: So elitekeyboards is on ebay now? I noticed they're selling this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Topre-Realforce-...item3a5ba1013f

I really like the layout.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
$90 and the price is wrong *****!

But it's white. . . and will probably be black after like 1 day of use. Ewwww

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Razer Mamba has a Philips sensors it's bad juju.

It can't be worse than my dumpy logitech. I needed something with adjustable DPI and programmable buttons for vent.

I figure for almost half it's normal price I'd give it a go. If I don't like it, I can surely sell it for what I paid (Normal retail is upwards of $115-130)


----------



## lmnop

Bad Juju for good reason Philips sensors have a long history of being problematic. the Wireless charge only last a couple hours a Bluetooth charge last a week knowing this why not buy the less expensive Razer Lachesis which uses a early incarnation of the Philips sensor at least it has years of firmware updates.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *technodanvan* 
Well that's just completely unacceptable. And a really good point.

*sigh*

Might just buy the Filco too and see which one I like more, then *dispose* of the other one.

Well if you have trouble disposing of it, just let me know.









So do to some financial juggling, getting my own Das Pro Silent is getting closer, hopefully will be able to order soonish.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Bad Juju for good reason Philips sensors have a long history of being problematic. the Wireless charge only last a couple hours a Bluetooth charge last a week knowing this why not buy the less expensive Razer Lachesis which uses a early incarnation of the Philips sensor at least it has years of firmware updates.


The new 1.03 firmware fixes the common problems (charge duration included).

And I can't stand wired mice in the first place, so no to the Lachesis. Plus I keep my computer way up on top of my desk (it's a tall desk), so wired mice are impractical for me (unless they've got a monster cord. but that would probably be eaten by my dog or something). As it is, my Deck cord is just barely long enough (but I don't have to move that).

I really wanted to see what the fuss is about with Razer mice. I've grown tired of any logitech mice I've owned.

I used to have an MX600 until the thing started spacing out constantly. I currently own an LX8 because I couldn't find another MX600 in a store near me (I didn't have internet access at home then so newegg and other online retailers were out of the question)

I'm not changing my decision. There is no other wireless mouse I'd rather try.


----------



## Maytan

'twas shipped!

Quote:



Ticket #709265: Squeaky backspace-key
Status: Solved
Comment by: Das Keyboard Support
.---
| Nathanael,
|
| Your replacement keyboard shipped on Tuesday, June 8. The UPS tracking number is *snip*. Please let me know if you have any questions.
|
| Best,
|
| Erin
`---


----------



## CJRhoades

Anyone know where I can get replacement keycaps for the Das Model S Ultimate? I really liked the look of the red ESC and bluish WASD that you can get for Filco boards but Das doesn't have anything like that one their site.


----------



## Crazy9000

I think we said this a few pages back, they don't make keycaps specifically for the das. Any keycaps made for cherry mx blues will fit onto the blues naturally, but it's a gamble if they will match the other keys on the das in size, slope, etc.

Replacing all the keys should work fine though







. Assuming the backspace, etc is same size that is...


----------



## meticadpa

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Gaming? Typing? Use is important to switch and board choice.


Gaming mostly, though I do type on OCN a fair bit and my typing amount will increase exponentially in about August.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I'm not one of the experts, but what's your budget? I mean, is it approximately Â£40-Â£50?


~Â£50, yeah. If something's going to present much better value for money at just Â£10 higher or something, I'd have absolutely no qualms in stretching though.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I think we said this a few pages back, they don't make keycaps specifically for the das. Any keycaps made for cherry mx blues will fit onto the blues naturally, but it's a gamble if they will match the other keys on the das in size, slope, etc.

Replacing all the keys should work fine though







. Assuming the backspace, etc is same size that is...


Ah, well then I'll just change my question.

Do the Filco bluish/purplish WASD keycaps fit the Das Model S in terms of slope/size/finish/shape/etc?

Hopefully someone here has tried and can answer that...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *meticadpa*


Gaming mostly, though I do type on OCN a fair bit and my typing amount will increase exponentially in about August.


Sounds like you need Cherry MX Brown switches. Not sure if you'll be able to find a _new_ mechanical keyboard in your budget though. I'm new to the scene though so I may be wrong.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *meticadpa*


~Â£50, yeah. If something's going to present much better value for money at just Â£10 higher or something, I'd have absolutely no qualms in stretching though.


If we can use the Â£10 rule multiple times to step up, I recommend buying your own keyboard factory and making a meticadpa edition keyboard, with custom switches designed to your exact taste and only the finest plastic crafted with the tears of a lberian lynx.


----------



## KipH

In that price I think only the odd layout of the I-rocks or the new thermaltake keyboard will be available new. You can try one of the scissor switch ones or find used on ebay if them don't do it for you.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
In that price I think only the odd layout of the I-rocks or the new thermaltake keyboard will be available new. You can try one of the scissor switch ones or find used on ebay if them don't do it for you.

Â£50-60 is a lot more then $60, he should be able to find something decent on ebay at least I would think.


----------



## KipH

They go for just over 90 to 100$ us


----------



## ihatelolcats

nevermind :S


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


And I can't stand wired mice in the first place, so no to the Lachesis. Plus I keep my computer way up on top of my desk (it's a tall desk), so wired mice are impractical for me (unless they've got a monster cord. but that would probably be eaten by my dog or something). As it is, my Deck cord is just barely long enough (but I don't have to move that).


You do realize there are things called extension cables, right?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
The new 1.03 firmware fixes the common problems (charge duration included).

And I can't stand wired mice in the first place, so no to the Lachesis. Plus I keep my computer way up on top of my desk (it's a tall desk), so wired mice are impractical for me (unless they've got a monster cord. but that would probably be eaten by my dog or something). As it is, my Deck cord is just barely long enough (but I don't have to move that).

I really wanted to see what the fuss is about with Razer mice. I've grown tired of any logitech mice I've owned.

I used to have an MX600 until the thing started spacing out constantly. I currently own an LX8 because I couldn't find another MX600 in a store near me (I didn't have internet access at home then so newegg and other online retailers were out of the question)

I'm not changing my decision. There is no other wireless mouse I'd rather try.

that was the firmware update that increased it lol


----------



## lmnop

7 Cherry G80-8113HRBUS-2 available on eBay. US Layout, Cherry MX Brown or Clear switches that are PCB Mounted, Double Shot Keycaps and Full Rollover. $15 + $8 shipping /ea

Phaedrus if you are patient they will come


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
7 Cherry G80-8113HRBUS-2 available on eBay. US Layout, Cherry MX Brown or Clear switches that are PCB Mounted, Double Shot Keycaps and Full Rollover. $15 + $8 shipping /ea

A friend of mine needs a new keyboard. Time to get him a gift.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
You do realize there are things called extension cables, right?









Well, I have these things called dogs, and they like to chew on cables if the dangle on the floor lol. So I just avoid the problem


----------



## Crazy9000

I've just gotten a Topre realforce (black, 55g keys), it is certainly very different from the other mechanical keyboards. I can already say it owns the blues for gaming







. It will take me awhile to compare it to the deck for a real test though.

As for typing, it's pretty different so it will take some getting used to. I think I'm already starting to like it, only have had it today. At first I thought it didn't seem that good, but it's growing on me







.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I've just gotten a Topre realforce (black, 55g keys), *it is certainly very different from the other mechanical keyboards*. I can already say it owns the blues for gaming







. It will take me awhile to compare it to the deck for a real test though.

As for typing, it's pretty different so it will take some getting used to. I think I'm already starting to like it, only have had it today. At first I thought it didn't seem that good, but it's growing on me







.


That's because it's not mechanical!


----------



## Thosesneakyfrench

Thanks to the inordinate kindness of Phaedrus, I have been provided with a great introduction to mechanical keyboards:


















The G84-4100. I hear it's not the best, but as far as I'm concerned, the typing feels nice, except that I'm constantly missing the shift, enter, and backspace keys because of how small they are. That part is just acclimation though, I'm sure I'll fall in love with it after a couple of days.

I was also the little scoundrel who snatched up the G80-8200 yesterday. I rationalize it like this. First, I just don't think the G84 is going to find a good home as my main keyboard, simply because I'd rather have a full one. It would be much better off at my dad's house, where my keyboard is half hanging off my desk. Second, for the $40 I got it for, I could partially reimburse myself by selling off my merc stealth. (I'm considering making this a freebie, which only seems proper considering the stuff I've won lately)

So, mechanical keyboarders, hi.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


That's because it's not mechanical!










Well it's partially







.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
7 Cherry G80-8113HRBUS-2 available on eBay. US Layout, Cherry MX Brown or Clear switches that are PCB Mounted, Double Shot Keycaps and Full Rollover. $15 + $8 shipping /ea

Phaedrus if you are patient they will come









Interesting. Have you ever tried the clears? Thinking about grabbing one of these, but I don't want one if mx clears feel like black alps







. IIRC they both require nearly the same force to activate. I know there's a chance of getting browns, but I want to be happy either way


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *drjoey1500* 
Interesting. Have you ever tried the clears? Thinking about grabbing one of these, but I don't want one if mx clears feel like black alps







. IIRC they both require nearly the same force to activate. I know there's a chance of getting browns, but I want to be happy either way









no I haven't. a couple members here have a Deck Legend Frost with Cherry MX Clear switches. Simplified Alps in Black actuate at 65-70g. Cherry MX Clear actuate at 55g. also the G80 is PCB mounted so it won't be as clunky.

if you are thinking about picking one of these up I would do it sooner rather than later, 2 have already sold today and these will sell quickly.


----------



## ch_123

Supposedly the clears have a lot of friction in them.


----------



## CJRhoades

Ugh, I hate UPS. Was supposed to get my new Das today but the delivery was rescheduled to Monday. To bad you can't just drive to the UPS facility and get your package. It's in Indianapolis which is about 50 mins from where I live.


----------



## Manyak

What could _this_ be that came in the mail today? A sack of potatoes? A bunch of garlic?










Nope! It's a brand new Siig Minitouch!


----------



## SininStyle

Well its safe to say anything can be as complicated as you want to make it lol. I read links to explain how mechanical keyboards work and suggestions on keyboards out today. How they compare to dome ect. Ive been comparing the Logitech G110 and G15 and pretty sold on the G15. My issue is the LCD is useless, the macros re pointless and the USBs are silly.
So I was hoping could point me toward a gaming keyboard (mechanical) comparable to a G15. Like the lighting and a normal key layout. Media keys especially volume would be nice. Definitely black, a white keyboard wouldnt stand a chance on my desk. Keys that arnt gona wear off. Ive heard the G15 actually has clear keys that have been painted from the inside. this prevent wear but i havent seen it first hand.
My current Logitech is 8+ yrs old now and the letters have just started to fade on me. Other then that the dome keys seem to have withstood the abuse of typical gaming abuse.
Trying to keep it under $75, beyond that seems like a luxuary and money better spent on things like a new monitor lol.
Anyway, any suggestions would be insanely helpful as i clearly dont know anything about mechanical boards. What to avoid and whats best bang for buck. So appreciate any direction youo guys could send me in.


----------



## Marin

G15 keys wear down fast. My WASD keys have no lettering now.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SininStyle* 
Well its safe to say anything can be as complicated as you want to make it lol. I read links to explain how mechanical keyboards work and suggestions on keyboards out today. How they compare to dome ect. Ive been comparing the Logitech G110 and G15 and pretty sold on the G15. My issue is the LCD is useless, the macros re pointless and the USBs are silly.
So I was hoping could point me toward a gaming keyboard (mechanical) comparable to a G15. Like the lighting and a normal key layout. Media keys especially volume would be nice. Definitely black, a white keyboard wouldnt stand a chance on my desk. Keys that arnt gona wear off. Ive heard the G15 actually has clear keys that have been painted from the inside. this prevent wear but i havent seen it first hand.
My current Logitech is 8+ yrs old now and the letters have just started to fade on me. Other then that the dome keys seem to have withstood the abuse of typical gaming abuse.
Trying to keep it under $75, beyond that seems like a luxuary and money better spent on things like a new monitor lol.
Anyway, any suggestions would be insanely helpful as i clearly dont know anything about mechanical boards. What to avoid and whats best bang for buck. So appreciate any direction youo guys could send me in.

Well it's above your budget, but the best gaming keyboard is probably a Deck (http://deckkeyboards.com/). They are also a great bang for the buck, despite the high price. The profit margin is pretty low, in contrast to the g15 which is a $5 keyboard with a LCD strapped to it.

Otherwise, you will have to give up the backlighting to get mechanical switches. lmnop seems to camp ebay regularly looking for deals, so if you wait a little bit she'll probably post another one







.


----------



## Derp

Do all mechanical keys wobble and have a lot of play? If I rest my finger on a key and move my finger around it will wobble all over the place almost like they are loose and ready to fall off or something.

I want to know if this is found on all mechanical keyboards or just found on cheaper boards like this $20 discontinued ABS M1.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Auld* 
Do all mechanical keys wobble and have a lot of play? If I rest my finger on a key and move my finger around it will wobble all over the place almost like they are loose and ready to fall off or something.

I want to know if this is found on all mechanical keyboards or just found on cheaper boards like this $20 discontinued ABS M1.

The M1 is a pretty cheap keyboard for mechanical switches, so they had to cut the corners on pretty much the entire rest of the keyboard. The key wobble on that is just from the low build quality, you shouldn't experience it with any other board. I mean there might be some other super cheap ones, but they are the exception not the norm.


----------



## Marin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Auld* 
Do all mechanical keys wobble and have a lot of play? If I rest my finger on a key and move my finger around it will wobble all over the place almost like they are loose and ready to fall off or something.

I want to know if this is found on all mechanical keyboards or just found on cheaper boards like this $20 discontinued ABS M1.

Just happens with the cheaper keyboards due to them cutting costs (as Crazy has pointed out).


----------



## lmnop

2 G80-8113HRBUS-2 left on eBay.


----------



## GeforceGTS

^^ Aren't the key caps/switches alone worth the $12 they are asking for those keyboards?

If I wasn't so hard up right now and in the UK I'd pick one of those up just for the keys


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GeforceGTS*


^^ Aren't the key caps/switches alone worth the $12 they are asking for those keyboards?

If I wasn't so hard up right now and in the UK I'd pick one of those up just for the keys










yes. if you order Cherry MX Switches from a parts supplier like Digikey or Mouser a 100 Cherry MX Switches cost about $96 the more you order the cheaper they get. some suppliers have minimum orders so if you have to replace a switch or keycap because it's worn or broken you may have no choice but to harvest from another keyboard.


----------



## SininStyle

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


G15 keys wear down fast. My WASD keys have no lettering now.


ive read multipel times that they had an issue with the paint on the keys for the first few batches of the G15. Could it be you have one of those ? I only ask because ive read allot of great things about the wear of the keys on the G15.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
The M1 is a pretty cheap keyboard for mechanical switches, so they had to cut the corners on pretty much the entire rest of the keyboard. The key wobble on that is just from the low build quality, you shouldn't experience it with any other board. I mean there might be some other super cheap ones, but they are the exception not the norm.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
Just happens with the cheaper keyboards due to them cutting costs (as Crazy has pointed out).

I kind of figured that was the case. The wobble annoys me but you usually get what you pay for. I am very glad I didn't pay the $50 that newegg was asking for this thing earlier this year.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SininStyle* 
ive read multipel times that they had an issue with the paint on the keys for the first few batches of the G15. Could it be you have one of those ? I only ask because ive read allot of great things about the wear of the keys on the G15.

My G15 wasn't particularly old and has faded lettering as well. My brother has a V2 that looks really, really sad and is only a year old.


----------



## Marin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SininStyle*


ive read multipel times that they had an issue with the paint on the keys for the first few batches of the G15. Could it be you have one of those ? I only ask because ive read allot of great things about the wear of the keys on the G15.


I have the V2 and I got it after the KB had been on the market for awhile, so it's definitely not the first batch.


----------



## SininStyle

Wow thats not really what i want to hear lol. Biggest issue is key fade it looks so horrible. I technically dont need the letters but I do glance once in a while to find placement.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SininStyle*


Wow thats not really what i want to hear lol. Biggest issue is key fade it looks so horrible. I technically dont need the letters but I do glance once in a while to find placement.


If you're going to buy a domer don't spend over $20 for one, backlit or not.

If you want a mechanical, $75 might find you a suitable one, but it certainly wont have back-lighting. Try $175 if you want a solid backlit mechanical.

Everyone I knew could not believe that I would spend so much money on a keyboard that I didn't even know if I'd like it or not. They were all like "Dude, it's a keyboard. . ." (But I now say, Dude it's a Deck)

I'm really happy I went mechanical. They're worlds apart from rubber domers in all aspects, and I'd do it again in a heart beat. I will *NEVER* own another rubber dome keyboard again.

(My keyboard is a Deck Legend Frost w/ MX Clear switches)


----------



## ljason8eg

How do you like the MX Clears? Enjoyable for typing and gaming? I'm leaning towards a Deck and I know I don't want the blacks, so I was wondering what your opinion of the Clears is.


----------



## SininStyle

what if i passed on the back light.anything decent under $75 with media controls?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SininStyle* 
what if i passed on the back light.anything decent under $75 with media controls?

Adesso MKB-135B see review here. Keycaps wobble though.


----------



## SininStyle

bah well from the sounds of it $75 is gona buy me crap either way i go. Thanks for the help








Maybe ill just clear coat the G15 with some poly or something lol. I aint afraid of moding lol.


----------



## lmnop

there is 1 G80-8113HRBUS-2 left. it's BID only. you can create your own Media Controls with Sharp Keys or AutoHotKey the G80-8113HRBUS-2 has relegendable keycaps so you can insert logo, label or icon underneath. scroll down half-way in Phaedrus2129 review of the G80-8200 to see what I am talking about.


----------



## SininStyle

G80-8113HRBUS-2 listed at $55 buyout only so guessing the one your referring to is gone or im blind lol which is completely possible lol.
I read that review and that actually sounds decent. Far better then that last review lol


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ljason8eg*


How do you like the MX Clears? Enjoyable for typing and gaming? I'm leaning towards a Deck and I know I don't want the blacks, so I was wondering what your opinion of the Clears is.


I love them. If I could, I'd make love to this keyboard and have it's babies.

But seriously, I love typing on them, and the tactile bump doesn't give me any issues gaming.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SininStyle*


G80-8113HRBUS-2 listed at $55 buyout only so guessing the one your referring to is gone or im blind lol which is completely possible lol. 
I read that review and that actually sounds decent. Far better then that last review lol


http://cgi.ebay.com/CHERRY-D-91275-M...item335de3fa39

this is the last one from the seller but for some reason it's BID only where the other 6 were BUY for $15. I would place a bid or contact the seller.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


I love them. If I could I'd make love to this keyboard and have it's babies.

But seriously, I love typing on them, and the tactile bump doesn't give me any issues gaming.


Thanks.









I'll probably be picking it up near the end of summer then. This ABS M1 is a ton better than the G15 but I want something of higher quality.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CJRhoades* 
Ugh, I hate UPS. Was supposed to get my new Das today but the delivery was rescheduled to Monday.

Same here. <_<


----------



## Alpstouch

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ljason8eg*


Thanks.









I'll probably be picking it up near the end of summer then. This ABS M1 is a ton better than the G15 but I want something of higher quality.


The ABS M1 is build by Costar which is the same maker of infamous Filco. And it has the exact same build quality as Filcos besides different switches. I have both M1 and FKB104M and I still prefer M1 over Filco. And I must say its tactile feel has become one of my favorites. It's just too bad there aren't many users of mechanical keyboards with enough experiences to make fair comparisons. Sure the M1 doesn't have any extra features like media keys or n-key rollover, and its bottomed out noise and lowish price has scared away some people, but I consider its tactile feel rather unique and reminiscent of the early age of simplified alps, which is somewhat different from modern versions.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alpstouch*


The ABS M1 is build by Costar which is the same maker of infamous Filco. *And it has the exact same build quality as Filcos besides different switches*. I have both M1 and FKB104M and I still prefer M1 over Filco. And I must say its tactile feel has become one of my favorites. It's just too bad there aren't many users of mechanical keyboards with enough experiences to make fair comparisons. Sure the M1 doesn't have any extra features like media keys or n-key rollover, and its bottomed out noise and lowish price has scared away some people, but I consider its tactile feel rather unique and reminiscent of the early age of simplified alps, which is somewhat different from modern versions.


If this is true I'm never buying a filco. lol

I've had an M1 to play around with and compare it to my Deck, and there was a huuuuggeee difference between the build quality of both. The Deck is in a different league when compared to the M1.

I really figured a Filco > M1. Not that the M1 is terrible, it just doesn't hold a candle to the Deck. I expected the Filco to be somewhere just below the Deck, but not _that_ far below.

Do the keys of your filco wobble as bad as the M1? (I don't know about you, but switches count towards build quality for me)


----------



## Marin

Just dug my M1 out of the closet. What mostly makes it feel lower quality is the switch, imo. It seems like the Alps copy switch has a lot more play in it in comparison to Cherry switches.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


If this is true I'm never buying a filco. lol

I've had an M1 to play around with and compare it to my Deck, and there was a huuuuggeee difference between the build quality of both. The Deck is in a different league when compared to the M1.

I really figured a Filco > M1. Not that the M1 is terrible, it just doesn't hold a candle to the Deck. I expected the Filco to be somewhere just below the Deck, but not _that_ far below.

*Do the keys of your filco wobble as bad as the M1? (I don't know about you, but switches count towards build quality for me)*


No, they don't come close to wobbling as much.


----------



## GeforceGTS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alpstouch*


The ABS M1 is build by Costar which is the same maker of infamous Filco. And it has the exact same build quality as Filcos besides different switches. I have both M1 and FKB104M and I still prefer M1 over Filco. And I must say its tactile feel has become one of my favorites. It's just too bad there aren't many users of mechanical keyboards with enough experiences to make fair comparisons. Sure the M1 doesn't have any extra features like media keys or n-key rollover, and its bottomed out noise and lowish price has scared away some people, but I consider its tactile feel rather unique and reminiscent of the early age of simplified alps, which is somewhat different from modern versions.



I was under the impression the only Filco similar to the M1 was the Filco Zero which is made by Costar and less than half the price off any other Filco, they also share the same transposition issues but from what I've read the M1 is a little worse than the Zero..

Also, wouldn't it be only the internals made by Costar? That's what I thought anyway, so the actual build quality of the casing etc should be just as good as the majestouch which is a LOT better than the M1.

again though, I'm no expert but I find it hard to believe that the M1 has the same build quality as a majestouch..


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GeforceGTS*


I was under the impression the only Filco similar to the M1 was the Filco Zero which is made by Costar and less than half the price off any other Filco, they also share the same transposition issues but from what I've read the M1 is a little worse than the Zero..

Also, wouldn't it be only the internals made by Costar? That's what I thought anyway, so the actual build quality of the casing etc should be just as good as the majestouch which is a LOT better than the M1.

again though, I'm no expert but I find it hard to believe that the M1 has the same build quality as a majestouch..


it doesn't.


----------



## ljason8eg

Yeah there's no way a $100+ Filco has the build quality, or lack there of, that this M1 has. It feels...well...cheap.


----------



## drjoey1500

Hey guys (and girl







), I'm building my uncle a computer and I was thinking about getting him a mechanical keyboard. Any suggestions? No set budget, but it does have to be a justifiable price. It doesn't have to be mechanical, I was actually thinking about getting something like a keytronic board. The computer is just for basic usage like email and music.

In his words, he doesn't want to cut corners to save money but he also wouldn't want to spend a ton of money just to get the best. Looks are also a plus. So far I'm getting him a dell 23'' monitor and a Lian Li case







probably this one which is where I reach a dilemma...

So my question is, are keytronics durable, or will they wear out? How bad are the filco keycaps really? I was thinking about either a das S pro silent or a filco tactile touch. This is my dilemma; the filco would definitely fit better with the rest of the peripherals (matte black), but I've read bad things about the pad printed keys wearing off (vs the das laser etched, but I don't like the idea of the glossy fingerprint magnet clashing with everything else matte). How quickly do the filco keys wear out?

Last question, do you think it's justifiable price jump to get a mechanical keyboard over a better rubber dome like a keytronic to someone who probably doesn't really care that much? It'll be a nice keyboard whether he realizes why or not, I'm just wondering if it's worth it.

Sorry for the long post. I was going to ask a cryptic question, but once I started I had to explain everything







. Thanks for the help.


----------



## Marin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ljason8eg*


Yeah there's no way a $100+ Filco has the build quality, or lack there of, that this M1 has. It feels...well...cheap.


Yeah, it's the switch. And it is easily seen that Costar made it since it has the same design as the Filco's, just cheaper.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CJRhoades* 
Ugh, I hate UPS. Was supposed to get my new Das today but the delivery was rescheduled to Monday. To bad you can't just drive to the UPS facility and get your package. It's in Indianapolis which is about 50 mins from where I live.

If you are willing to make the long round-trip, then I bet that there's a chance that you can pick it up today. But you have to call UPS with your tracking number ready in order to make this request. This is because they change the status to Customer Pick-Up (or something to that effect). This means that once the status changes, you MUST pick it up. Otherwise, you'll have to call and tell them to deliver it anyway which will mean you'd have to wait even LONGER. So make the decision carefully.

In other words, I think that they don't allow packages to be picked up directly unless they're expecting it. I think that this is because they have to take the package out of circulation and then bring it to a different location inside of the facility where it is open to the public.

Otherwise, just be patient. Once you finally have the keyboard plugged in, all of this will be in the past. It'll quickly begin to feel like you didn't have to wait that long at all.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SininStyle* 
Well its safe to say anything can be as complicated as you want to make it lol. I read links to explain how mechanical keyboards work and suggestions on keyboards out today. How they compare to dome ect. Ive been comparing the Logitech G110 and G15 and pretty sold on the G15. My issue is the LCD is useless, the macros re pointless and the USBs are silly.
So I was hoping could point me toward a gaming keyboard (mechanical) comparable to a G15. Like the lighting and a normal key layout. Media keys especially volume would be nice. Definitely black, a white keyboard wouldnt stand a chance on my desk. Keys that arnt gona wear off. Ive heard the G15 actually has clear keys that have been painted from the inside. this prevent wear but i havent seen it first hand.
My current Logitech is 8+ yrs old now and the letters have just started to fade on me. Other then that the dome keys seem to have withstood the abuse of typical gaming abuse.
Trying to keep it under $75, beyond that seems like a luxuary and money better spent on things like a new monitor lol.
Anyway, any suggestions would be insanely helpful as i clearly dont know anything about mechanical boards. What to avoid and whats best bang for buck. So appreciate any direction youo guys could send me in.

I can only say this: for the love of your sanity, avoid the G15. I had the G15 myself (as well as the Lycosa), and I can tell you right now that in comparison to the mechanical keyboard I have now, the G15 and the Lycosa keyboards seem like nothing more than $2 rubber dome keyboards with fancy looks and a bunch of silly features which are used as bait to make Logitech and Razer an enormous profit.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Auld* 
Do all mechanical keys wobble and have a lot of play? If I rest my finger on a key and move my finger around it will wobble all over the place almost like they are loose and ready to fall off or something.

I want to know if this is found on all mechanical keyboards or just found on cheaper boards like this $20 discontinued ABS M1.

I think they all wobble at least a little bit. The keys on my keyboard (the Filco Majestouch) wobble. It's not distracting though, and I don't notice it unless I'm trying to notice it; such as trying to make a key wobble.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *drjoey1500* 
Hey guys (and girl







), I'm building my uncle a computer and I was thinking about getting him a mechanical keyboard. Any suggestions? No set budget, but it does have to be a justifiable price. It doesn't have to be mechanical, I was actually thinking about getting something like a keytronic board. The computer is just for basic usage like email and music.

In his words, he doesn't want to cut corners to save money but he also wouldn't want to spend a ton of money just to get the best. Looks are also a plus. So far I'm getting him a dell 23'' monitor and a Lian Li case







probably this one which is where I reach a dilemma...

So my question is, are keytronics durable, or will they wear out? How bad are the filco keycaps really? I was thinking about either a das S pro silent or a filco tactile touch. This is my dilemma; the filco would definitely fit better with the rest of the peripherals (matte black), but I've read bad things about the pad printed keys wearing off (vs the das laser etched, but I don't like the idea of the glossy fingerprint magnet clashing with everything else matte). How quickly do the filco keys wear out?

Last question, do you think it's justifiable price jump to get a mechanical keyboard over a better rubber dome like a keytronic to someone who probably doesn't really care that much? It'll be a nice keyboard whether he realizes why or not, I'm just wondering if it's worth it.

Sorry for the long post. I was going to ask a cryptic question, but once I started I had to explain everything







. Thanks for the help.

I think that all I can reply to is the question about the key wear: I think the key wear is different for everyone due to several variables. I've had my Filco Majestouch since 3/9/10, and there's almost no wear at all. I mean, I see a little bit, but the letters are still 100% intact.

What kind of typist is he?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *drjoey1500* 
Hey guys (and girl







), I'm building my uncle a computer and I was thinking about getting him a mechanical keyboard. Any suggestions? No set budget, but it does have to be a justifiable price. It doesn't have to be mechanical, I was actually thinking about getting something like a keytronic board. The computer is just for basic usage like email and music.

In his words, he doesn't want to cut corners to save money but he also wouldn't want to spend a ton of money just to get the best. Looks are also a plus. So far I'm getting him a dell 23'' monitor and a Lian Li case







probably this one which is where I reach a dilemma...

So my question is, are keytronics durable, or will they wear out? How bad are the filco keycaps really? I was thinking about either a das S pro silent or a filco tactile touch. This is my dilemma; the filco would definitely fit better with the rest of the peripherals (matte black), but I've read bad things about the pad printed keys wearing off (vs the das laser etched, but I don't like the idea of the glossy fingerprint magnet clashing with everything else matte). How quickly do the filco keys wear out?

Last question, do you think it's justifiable price jump to get a mechanical keyboard over a better rubber dome like a keytronic to someone who probably doesn't really care that much? It'll be a nice keyboard whether he realizes why or not, I'm just wondering if it's worth it.

Sorry for the long post. I was going to ask a cryptic question, but once I started I had to explain everything







. Thanks for the help.

black keycaps are going to shine eventually the Filco ones are the worst because they have a protecting coating applied to the legend that is supposed to protect the pad printed lettering from wear but the protective coating it self wears and makes the legend shiny faster. pad printing is going to wear and fade eventually only time will tell.

dye sublimation and double shot molding are the only permanent solutions.

finger prints can be removed.


----------



## Alpstouch

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
If this is true I'm never buying a filco. lol

I've had an M1 to play around with and compare it to my Deck, and there was a huuuuggeee difference between the build quality of both. The Deck is in a different league when compared to the M1.

I really figured a Filco > M1. Not that the M1 is terrible, it just doesn't hold a candle to the Deck. I expected the Filco to be somewhere just below the Deck, but not _that_ far below.

Do the keys of your filco wobble as bad as the M1? (I don't know about you, but switches count towards build quality for me)

Looks like I owe you guys an explanation. What I really meant was that M1 and Filco looked exactly the same to me. If you look at them closely, the surface coating/finish of Filco's casing is a little smoother than M1's. The keycaps might also be coated differently but not by much. And they both weighed about the same. The M1 does have a slightly better wire with fabric protection.

One interesting note is that M1's was originally priced at $69.99 before Newegg had cut it down several times to the alltime jokingly low $20! Does anyone believe M1 should really sell for only $20? Based on its weight and materials, I find it unreal.

As for M1's wobbling keys, I didn't sense the problem. And I didn't get a squeaky space bar like some users mentioned, either. Actually my Filco's space bar sounds even louder in comparison. However, I believe Filco's quality is quite high and I'm curious how much better is the Deck in comparison.

I love both Alps and Cherry switches, but I wouldn't say one's superior to another. To me, it's the tactile feel that matters the most.

Sorry for creating the misunderstanding to all the members on the M1/Filco subject.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Alpstouch*


However, I believe Filco's quality is quite high and I'm curious how much better is the Deck in comparison.


much.

































I posted this to show you the texture of the face plate because the pictures on the Deck website are not very good.

the face plate and casing are really thick and made out of Polycarbonate.

the keycaps are 1mm thick, no profile, made out of PBT, 2-shot molded and sublimated. Signature Plastics manufactures the keycaps.

Cherry MX Black Linear and Clear switches are plate mounted onto a long, thick steel plate.

LED are industrial grade and rated for 22 years.

the feet raise the Deck Legend 2" like the IBM Model M.

weight is 3.5lbs


----------



## GeforceGTS

I was going to get a Deck before I lost my job, definitely picking one up once I get myself sorted out though









This is the cheapest I can find at 99 euros..










thb I don't really like the transparent red casing but it's considerably cheaper than any of the other Decks listed on this site, which got me wondering if there is any reason for that? I know some of the more expensive ones are waterproof which cost 300 euros ;l but there is a few other colours which are around 130-165 euros, So is that the only difference? The colours? I can't link directly to them since the website is a little weird, they are listed under backlit keyboards though









http://www.activekeyboards.com/en/


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GeforceGTS*


I was going to get a Deck before I lost my job, definitely picking one up once I get myself sorted out though









This is the cheapest I can find at 99 euros..










thb I don't really like the transparent red casing but it's considerably cheaper than any of the other Decks listed on this site, which got me wondering if there is any reason for that? I know some of the more expensive ones are waterproof which cost 300 euros ;l but there is a few other colours which are around 130-165 euros, So is that the only difference? The colours? I can't link directly to them since the website is a little weird, they are listed under backlit keyboards though









http://www.activekeyboards.com/en/


it's actually a fiber glass casing.

the Deck 82 Fire and Toxic (Red and Green) have controller problems. Deck 82 Ice (Blue) doesn't.

the TG3 82 models are the ones that don't say Deck in the product name those are more expensive because they are plate mounted, have a splash guard and trackpad.


----------



## GeforceGTS

Ah I see, I'll avoid the Fire and Toxic then, I thought it was a little strange that it was actually cheaper than a Filco.

I think it will be a long time before I can afford 165 euros for the blue :l

Also, I've just released there is no euro key on my Filco dammit!


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GeforceGTS*


Ah I see, I'll avoid the Fire and Toxic then, I thought it was a little strange that it was actually cheaper than a Filco.

I think it will be a long time before I can afford 165 euros for the blue :l

Also, I've just released there is no euro key on my Filco dammit!










on the Deck website the Deck Legend Fire, Ice, Frost and Toxic do not have the same retail price and it's because of the LED.

Deck Legend Fire is the cheapest $149 because Red LED are cheaper than another color.


----------



## videoman5

Replace LEDs in my new Unicomp to Yellow, Red, Yellow? Y/N?


----------



## Derp

Since manyak posted this guide on OCN I have always thought those 82 key decks look like silly toys for children because of that clear plastic. What were they thinking?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 

I think they all wobble at least a little bit. The keys on my keyboard (the Filco Majestouch) wobble. It's not distracting though, and I don't notice it unless I'm trying to notice it; such as trying to make a key wobble.


Well, I am a horrible typist and sometimes hit the corner or sides of a key instead of the dead center. In that case the key wobbles around first and then depresses. After the depress it almost sounds like after it comes back up it wobbles again and makes extra noise.

If the key wobble is still there on a $100+ filco then I don't think mechanical keyboards are for me. If the keys had a clean movement with zero wobble it or close to it then it would not only feel better to type on but I think it would also make it quieter as well.


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


much.

































I posted this to show you the texture of the face plate because the pictures on the Deck website are not very good.

the face plate and casing are really thick and made out of Polycarbonate.

the keycaps are 1mm thick, no profile, made out of PBT, 2-shot molded and sublimated. Signature Plastics manufactures the keycaps.

Cherry MX Black Linear and Clear switches are plate mounted onto a long, thick steel plate.

LED are industrial grade and rated for 22 years.

the feet raise the Deck Legend 2" like the IBM Model M.

weight is 3.5lbs


I'm interested what kind of LEDs do they use exactly.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


Last question, do you think it's justifiable price jump to get a mechanical keyboard over a better rubber dome like a keytronic to someone who probably doesn't really care that much? It'll be a nice keyboard whether he realizes why or not, I'm just wondering if it's worth it.


If he can touch type then yes I think it's worth it. If not for the durability, then at least for the feel (and possibly to make him faster). If he hunts and pecks then it's a waste of money, and a keytronic would do him nicely.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Auld*


If the key wobble is still there on a $100+ filco then I don't think mechanical keyboards are for me. If the keys had a clean movement with zero wobble it or close to it then it would not only feel better to type on but I think it would also make it quieter as well.


You've been sitting around here just finding every excuse possible NOT to buy a mechanical board. You're talking like you've just made your decision right now when you've been saying the same thing for months.

Guess what? Nothing's going to be perfect. There's _always_ going to be a way that things could be done better no matter what keyboard you buy.

And just FYI, there's very little wobble on Cherry switches, much less than on simplified black alps, and much less than a G15 too. And if you want no wobble whatsoever there are always Buckling Springs.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
If he can touch type then yes I think it's worth it. If not for the durability, then at least for the feel (and possibly to make him faster). If he hunts and pecks then it's a waste of money, and a keytronic would do him nicely.

You've been sitting around here just finding every excuse possible NOT to buy a mechanical board. You're talking like you've just made your decision right now when you've been saying the same thing for months.

Guess what? Nothing's going to be perfect. There's _always_ going to be a way that things could be done better no matter what keyboard you buy.

And just FYI, there's very little wobble on Cherry switches, much less than on simplified black alps, and much less than a G15 too. And if you want no wobble whatsoever there are always Buckling Springs.

Actually I never brought up the key wobble thing at all because I only recently noticed it after I plugged it back in. I have been finding an excuse TO buy a high dollar mechanical keyboard. Does it really bother you that I point out flaws?









I know things aren't going to be perfect, I am willing to deal with no media keys, macro keys, back lighting or whatever. But when the main selling point of a mechanical keyboard is the switches and they wobble enough to bother me then there is zero reason to buy one in my situation.


----------



## Maytan

Like Manyak said, every key is going to wobble. (even ever so slightly) A good quality mechanical board is going to wobble a lot less than a rubber dome board. So it'd still be beneficial to you. (I've tested my Das against my scissor-switch and rubber dome boards. Needless to say, all but the Das are in the trash right now.)


----------



## Marin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Auld*


Actually I never brought up the key wobble thing at all because I only recently noticed it after I plugged it back in. I have been finding an excuse TO buy a high dollar mechanical keyboard. Does it really bother you that I point out flaws?









* I know things aren't going to be perfect, I am willing to deal with no media keys, macro keys, back lighting or whatever. But when the main selling point of a mechanical keyboard is the switches and they wobble enough to bother me then there is zero reason to buy one in my situation.*


Trust me, they barely wobble. I can only get my Filco keys to wobble by grabbing them and moving them back and forth. When typing it doesn't even come close to wobbling like the M1.


----------



## Derp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


Trust me, they barely wobble. I can only get my Filco keys to wobble by grabbing them and moving them back and forth. When typing it doesn't even come close to wobbling like the M1.


Glad to hear. I will make sure to give a higher quality board a try when I can.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mondalaci*


I'm interested what kind of LEDs do they use exactly.


I don't know the names or where they order them from but you cannot buy them in a store. you can read about them here.

the wobble on the Adesso MKB-135B is pretty bad it's easy to make the Keycaps crooked so I wouldn't complain.


----------



## Thosesneakyfrench

I'm getting ready to dye my g84, and I'm wondering what's the best way to remove cherry ML keycaps without the impending feeling of breaking something.

Suggestions for the actual dying are welcome too, but I was experimenting earlier and think I have an idea of what to do. I already looked at this guide.


----------



## SininStyle

i hate to be a bother but is there somewhere that i can look at all these mechanical keyboards with pics and maybe like a rating? Just something to give me an idea of what to look for and maybe find some deals. 
I know someone has linked ebay a few times and that key board is nice but its rather large and has a card reader. really just looking for basic with good feel and key thats will last.


----------



## reaper~

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SininStyle*


i hate to be a bother but is there somewhere that i can look at all these mechanical keyboards with pics and maybe like a rating? Just something to give me an idea of what to look for and maybe find some deals.


Das Keyboard and Elite Keyboards for some pictures

Geekhack forums for some reviews, comments, etc. (and it's also where they call OCN members a bunch of idiots lol).


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SininStyle*


i hate to be a bother but is there somewhere that i can look at all these mechanical keyboards with pics and maybe like a rating? Just something to give me an idea of what to look for and maybe find some deals. 
I know someone has linked ebay a few times and that key board is nice but its rather large and has a card reader. really just looking for basic with good feel and key thats will last.


you have to start somewhere. you will get over the card reader, track pads and track balls. Manyak has a small listing on Page 1 of the Mechanical Keyboard Guide but I would start here.


----------



## SininStyle

even a helpful video with sound to hear the clicking. I was wondering how severe the click was. I had figured it would be that loud tit tat from the old type writers. its close but surely not as loud. Thanks Imnop


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SininStyle*


even a helpful video with sound to hear the clicking. I was wondering how severe the click was. I had figured it would be that loud tit tat from the old type writers. its close but surely not as loud. Thanks Imnop


oh why didn't you say so





















and

http://www.viddler.com/explore/HotHardware/videos/69/


----------



## SininStyle

oh so close, the I-Rock was in the price range but that key layout would drive me nutts. Been using the same keyboard 24/7 for 8+ years now and its the typical US layout.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SininStyle* 
oh so close, the I-Rock was in the price range but that key layout would drive me nutts. Been using the same keyboard 24/7 for 8+ years now and its the typical US layout.

I-Rocks has a new prototype out called the I-Rocks KR-6250 it has a full layout and Cherry MX Red switches however because of the shortage of Cherry MX Red switches they will probably change them to Cherry MX Black switches.


























this keyboard is interesting because the face plate and casing are metal but the Cherry MX Red switches are mounted on to a black PCB. the Keycaps are POM and Laser Etched. Full Rollover. USB Hub.


----------



## SininStyle

any idea on MSRP? prolly gona require toes lol


----------



## lmnop

I can't remember I think it's under $100. Phaedrus knows.


----------



## Marin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SininStyle* 
even a helpful video with sound to hear the clicking. I was wondering how severe the click was. I had figured it would be that loud tit tat from the old type writers. its close but surely not as loud. Thanks Imnop

Here's the click from the Cherry Blues.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SininStyle* 
even a helpful video with sound to hear the clicking. I was wondering how severe the click was. I had figured it would be that loud tit tat from the old type writers. its close but surely not as loud. Thanks Imnop

I recommend sitting on YouTube and just searching for whatever comes to you based on your research thus far. Search criteria would include things like _"mechanical keyboard"_, _"cherry mx blues"_, or specific keyboard models. Be creative.

But a good way I can describe the click of the Cherry MX Blues is this: it's like the click that a retractable pen makes, but much quieter. Switches that are non-clicky are indeed quiet, but the keyboard can still be loud if typing so hard that the keys bottom out.


----------



## lmnop

doesn't look like the I-Rocks keyboard is going to be on the US Market.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


doesn't look like the I-Rocks keyboard is going to be on the US Market.


Of course not. Cherry MX Red switches are forbidden over here or something.

RAAAGGGEEEEE


----------



## ch_123

Has anyone used these mythical red switches? Are they actually any good?


----------



## lmnop

nijikon5 and tater tot.


----------



## TFL Replica

Not bottoming out keys is a habit that's tough to get rid of.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TFL Replica*


Not bottoming out keys is a habit that's tough to get rid of.


the muscle memory will develop over time the difficulty is the type of switch.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TFL Replica* 
Not bottoming out keys is a habit that's tough to get rid of.

I was able to get rid of it, but I was extremely determined. I would literally use Notepad to practice every single day, but I never did it for a specific amount of time; I would just type in Notepad until I decided to do something else. The whole experience was very organic and almost spontaneous at times.

But you see, my original reason for typing in Notepad every single day was originally just to be able to type more. After all, I really enjoy typing on my keyboard, so I needed to satisfy my craving as much as possible. But as a result, I soon began using Notepad as a practice tool so that I could change my typing style so that I would begin to automatically use less force when I type and press keys. However, I was still using it as a way to satisfy my craving and so therefore that craving and determination to stop bottoming out kept me going.

As a result of _that_, I discovered that it was easiest to avoid bottoming out by hovering my wrists while I type (it was actually an accidental discovery) combined with gentle keypresses. In fact, I discovered that it was very helpful to purposely type so gently that I would often not even actuate some of the keystrokes. This showed me exactly how much force I need to apply in order to at least _actuate_ each keystroke. But this is more of a subconscious, muscle-memory related thing rather than being consciously aware of it. But it _has_ to be in order for me to be able to focus on what I'm typing instead of on my technique.

To simplify it, I would say that the best thing to do is to hover your wrists while typing and just press each key too gently so that several of your keystrokes don't even register. As a result, you'll be slightly less gentle and then you'll find that middle ground where you're pressing each key with only the necessary force needed to actuate it thereby not bottoming out any of the keys (except for maybe the Spacebar).


----------



## Marin

I stopped trying to not bottom out after I noticed my WPM drop.


----------



## thisispatrick

Lol that's insane because I'm practicing not bottoming out keys right now myself. The good thing is that I'm almost there. There are only a few keys which I press too hard mainly being the space bar and the backspace key. Maybe even sometimes shift too. However everything else is going alright







. I also do the notepad thing to. Or sometimes I play Typer Shark.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
I stopped trying to not bottom out after I noticed my WPM drop.

So were you expecting your speed to stay the same or improve? I mean, how can it *not* change? You're learning something new! My WPM went down to about one-quarter of what it normally is (at least that's what it seemed like). But the end result is that now I am no longer bottoming out and I type even a little bit faster than I used to. Not only that, but another benefit is that typing is much easier (which is why I'm faster).

Don't be a quitter.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Lol that's insane because I'm practicing not bottoming out keys right now myself. The good thing is that I'm almost there. There are only a few keys which I press too hard mainly being the space bar and the backspace key. Maybe even sometimes shift too. However everything else is going alright







. I also do the notepad thing to. Or sometimes I play Typer Shark.

I have to admit here that I still bottom out the Spacebar/Backspace and Shifts, but I most certainly don't press them as hard as I did when I first started typing on this keyboard!


----------



## ch_123

I found not bottoming out to be the easiest on Blue Cherry switches, it came sort of naturally after some use. I am pretty good at not bottoming out on buckling springs, especially on the the Model F whose different force curve helps a lot.

On the flipside, Alps are next to impossible to not bottom out on because they give way so suddenly after actuation (and bottom out nastily, which is why a lot of people don't like them). Topres also give way easily because they are so low-force, but they bottom out really softly so it doesn't matter.

Beam Spring switches also bottom out easily because the actuation point is very close to the bottom of the travel, but they also have a soft landing. They are the wÃ¼nderswitchen, after all.


----------



## papant7

Hey guys can anyone help me identify my keyboard? It's an ancient keyboard. Accumulated tons of dust. and got the big round AT connector. Can anyone help me? BTW is there a way to use this for a PS2/USB port?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *papant7*


Hey guys can anyone help me identify my keyboard? It's an ancient keyboard. Accumulated tons of dust. and got the big round AT connector. Can anyone help me? BTW is there a way to use this for a PS2/USB port?


















need a better picture. the whole keyboard and take a keycap off.


----------



## papant7

How to take the keycaps off? I am afraid that I might cripple my keyboard.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *papant7* 
How to take the keycaps off? I am afraid that I might cripple my keyboard.

it won't break. see here. use a flathead screwdriver, butter knife.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Has anyone used these mythical red switches? Are they actually any good?

http://www.overclock.net/8601572-post1870.html

That's a comparison of all the switches (and boards) I've worked with so far.

And yes, MX-Red's are mythical. Though, not as great as I thought they would be, I've found I much more enjoy a stiffer switch.


----------



## lmnop

that controller is pretty old. 1977.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


need a better picture. the whole keyboard and take a keycap off.


It looks like some Alps AT-101 keyboard.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


that controller is pretty old. 1977.


Intel stamps chips with the date of the design, not manufacture. If there are variations upon the design, there will be multiple dates.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


It looks like some Alps AT-101 keyboard.

Intel stamps chips with the date of the design, not manufacture. If there are variations upon the design, there will be multiple dates.


that is what I thought. I couldn't find any keyboards on Sandy's that resembled the pictures posted. I seen a couple with controllers placed above the cursor keys but 1980 was printed on them or the keycaps were the wrong color.


----------



## papant7

Front View









Back View









The switch

















Sorry if the last pic is blurred, it's already dark and hard to get macro shots.


----------



## lmnop

I think we have a winner.


----------



## papant7

Is it good or bad? Also the controller is placed differently on mine. Lastly can I still use this? (given that it is still working). USB adapter?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *papant7*


Is it good or bad? Also the controller is placed differently on mine. Lastly can I still use this? (given that it is still working). USB adapter?


why did you take a picture of the switch upside down? does it say Alps on the bottom of it? yeah you can.


----------



## papant7

No there is nothing scribbled on the switch except, A08. BTW The keycaps are Double-Shot Injection Molding. hahaha.That's why they haven't quite faded even if the case looks like something from a junkshop. I don't think it's the one you posted. The internal component layout is very different.


----------



## lmnop

I think it's some Focus 2001 OEM. the switches are Simplified Alps in White.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Get yourself a Din -> PS/2 adapter and put 'er to use. lol


----------



## Maytan

Das got here this morning.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Das got here this morning.










And?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


And?


Well... I'm enjoying it.. Do you want pics?..


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Well... I'm enjoying it.. Do you want pics?.


Hehe nice, I like my Das as well. Except how easily it scratches... not so happy with that.


----------



## Manyak

I've got pics turned off, I'm on vacation and the internet REALLY slow


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Hehe nice, I like my Das as well. Except how easily it scratches... not so happy with that.


Yeah, noticed that on my first unit before I EMA'd for a new one. Being more careful now.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I've got pics turned off, I'm on vacation and the internet REALLY slow










Oh. :\\

Well, in any case, Metadot had great customer service. Didn't take too long to ship either.


----------



## lmnop

I received a infraction for posting a emoticon. the_master_chief is a rat bastard.


----------



## DeckerDontPlay

So after reading this article and viewing the suggested keyboards I'm think of ditching the g15 (which has been an awesome keyboard for about 2+years) and picking up a mechanical one.

Im liking the Das Keyboard Ultimate (I think..the one with no labeled keys) and was wondering if anyone had any better suggestions from a gaming and forum crawling perspective?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DeckerDontPlay* 
So after reading this article and viewing the suggested keyboards I'm think of ditching the g15 (which has been an awesome keyboard for about 2+years) and picking up a mechanical one.

Im liking the Das Keyboard Ultimate (I think..the one with no labeled keys) and was wondering if anyone had any better suggestions from a gaming and forum crawling perspective?

good for you. do you live in America or Japan?


----------



## DeckerDontPlay

Japan for the next few years (military).


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DeckerDontPlay* 
Japan for the next few years (military).

Das Model S Ultimate Silent is a good choice for typing and gaming.

there are probably some mechanical keyboards on the Japanese market with US Layouts like China that you could pick up as well.


----------



## DeckerDontPlay

I need to take a look out in town. I went up to electric city here in Japan (not sure if your familiar) and looked around and it was so overwhelming. There is like floors and floors of computers parts haha its almost to much. It goes on forever and ever so I pretty much didnt find anything. Here is a pic. The Japanese know no limits.

But anyways thanks for the help


----------



## Crazy9000

I've been in a few electronics stores in Japan. They usually aren't really much bigger then something like best buy, it's just several stories instead of being all stretched out on one. Just find the right floor and you should be good to go.


----------



## nijikon5

omg <3 Akiba. There should be Filcos a plenty available to you in Japan with Diatec being Japanese an all.

I plan on moving to Japan myself to teach English in a year or so. Have you tried the Ramen shops yet?


----------



## ch_123

Blue Cherry keyboards aren't popular over there. Then again, if you had the money, you should get a few Cherry Red keyboards and sell them on here, you'd make a killing.


----------



## Tator Tot

I was looking to pick up a Deck ToXIC to add to my collection, anything to look out for with Deck boards?

Also, they're MX-Black switches correct?


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I was looking to pick up a Deck ToXIC to add to my collection, anything to look out for with Deck boards?

Also, they're MX-Black switches correct?


I've heard there might be some sort of issue with the 82 models of the toxic and fire.

Haven't heard anything about the 105's of either. And the 105-Toxic only comes w/ Black switches. They do have a couple boards that have an option for clears if you wanted a tactile feel.

You'll be happy with it, as they are built like a tank. I love my 105-Ice (w/ MX Clears instead of blacks)


----------



## Tator Tot

I was considering the Ice as I haven't tried clears yet.
Though, have you tried the Clears & Blacks? Any words on it?

I was going to get a 105, not an 82 for sure. I need my numpad.


----------



## Crazy9000

The clears should be almost exactly the same as blacks, just with the tactile bump. I would get the blacks if you want to game on it.


----------



## Pings

The only Mechanical Keyboard I want is the Italian Red 104-key option on the 104-key Filco. If anyone has one and would like to sell it PM me.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I was considering the Ice as I haven't tried clears yet.
Though, have you tried the Clears & Blacks? Any words on it?

I was going to get a 105, not an 82 for sure. I need my numpad.

http://www.overclock.net/8452907-post1486.html

Not that I need to tell you this, but YMMV


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
The clears should be almost exactly the same as blacks, just with the tactile bump. I would get the blacks if you want to game on it.

Yeah I know about that, but I wasn't sure if it'd made a difference on a typing or gaming level.

The MX-Browns bump didn't bother me, I just felt they were too light.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pings* 
The only Mechanical Keyboard I want is the Italian Red 104-key option on the 104-key Filco.

I'm not selling it, but my MX-Black board from Filco (Linear force is the name IIRC) is in Italian Red.

Though, I'd say it doesn't look AS nice as it does in the pictures. Especially once it collects some smudges.


----------



## Marin

I punched my Filco, is it okay?


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


I punched my Filco, is it okay?


The real question should be, is your hand ok? I kid.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I was considering the Ice as I haven't tried clears yet.
Though, have you tried the Clears & Blacks? Any words on it?

I was going to get a 105, not an 82 for sure. I need my numpad.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Yeah I know about that, but I wasn't sure if it'd made a difference on a typing or gaming level.

The MX-Browns bump didn't bother me, I just felt they were too light.

I haven't used blacks, so I can't speak on that.

I chose the Clears simply because I do quite a bit of typing on my keyboard, and I believed that typing would be weird on Blacks.

You have blacks, so you already know what those are like for typing or gaming and the Deck would feel no different there. I've heard people say that Clears are just a stiffer Brown (which you've again used).


----------



## Tator Tot

Yeah, and more of the feel I was going for.

I like the resistance (stiffness) given by blacks. I felt that Browns/Blues/Reds were all to light for my tastes.

I might consider the frost then.

My mouse will be purple and my board will be white


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


I punched my Filco, is it okay?


Fortunately the switches are tough and are mounted on a strong steel plate. So, unless you punched it in Strength Mode, it should be ok.

Does it feel different or sound different in any way?

Either way, I would guess its "hull integrity" is still at a solid 100%.


----------



## Marin

Feels and sounds the same.

*hugs Filco*


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


Feels and sounds the same the same.

*hugs Filco*


It'll be ok as long as you apologize.

Just be careful in the future, that is a really dangerous thing to do. For example, if TwoCables did something like that, his filco might leave him, and he wouldn't even be able to write it an apology/break up letter.


----------



## lmnop

i-Rocks KR-6230 with Cherry MX Browns $69.99 over 10 available on eBay.

some people don't like the layout because it has a vertical enter key, no windows key and the /? key.










consider this the Thermaltake Meka is coming out which is a rebranded I-Rocks KR-6230 but instead of Cherry MX Brown switches it uses Cherry MX Black Linear switches and I am sure it will cost more than $69.99. if you are using it for gaming only you shouldn't have any problems.

thanks to ricercar for the find.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I may have a review sample of the Das coming in.


----------



## lmnop

I think they sent skcheng a free t-shirt. it's been on the market for 9-10 months what is the point especially if you have to send it back.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I think they sent skcheng a free t-shirt. it's been on the market for 9-10 months what is the point especially if you have to send it back.


Because.







Even if I can't keep it, I get to try out a keyboard that I've heard a lot about and have even recommended a lot. Plus I've been wanting to try MX blues. And I doubt Das has a reason to say no to free (almost) publicity.


----------



## lmnop

publicity? lol

I hope you do a better job than trustedreviews. this is the first pro review site I have seen review a Filco Majestouch and it's not very good. the review is pretty dry. he rated the Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch 8/10 he also reviewed the steelseries 7g a couple months ago and rated it even less 7/10 but he rates the Microsoft Bluetrack 6000 and Microsoft Arc 9/10.

****er...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


Feels and sounds the same the same.

*hugs Filco*


Hmm... it looks like it has some brain damage: it repeated "the same" without even realizing it!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


It'll be ok as long as you apologize.

Just be careful in the future, that is a really dangerous thing to do. For example, if TwoCables did something like that, his filco might leave him, and he wouldn't even be able to write it an apology/break up letter.


_"Dear TwoCables: I am a keyboard, and you are a human..."_


----------



## pantalaimon

hi again

I asked about a gaming keyboard a while back and for lack of choice in the U.K ended up with one answer: 6gv2

AFAIK the 6gv2 is still not available here, and this Logitech is killing me.. So is there any news on when it might be available? The Steel Series site has said 'coming soon' for quite some time now. Of course if there are any alternative(s) for <Â£80 I would be interested in those too.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pantalaimon*


hi again

I asked about a gaming keyboard a while back and for lack of choice in the U.K ended up with one answer: 6gv2

AFAIK the 6gv2 is still not available here, and this Logitech is killing me.. So is there any news on when it might be available? The Steel Series site has said 'coming soon' for quite some time now. Of course if there are any alternative(s) for <Â£80 I would be interested in those too.


Would you consider a used one? I'm sure you could find an old cherry keyboard with mx blacks for cheap.


----------



## gordesky1

does anyone know if this is a mechanical?

had this for awhile and had it in storage for awhile i got it back in 2000 at a garage sale. and it really needs a clean up lol

but from what it says it was made in 95 96.

i got the pics as attachments if that is ok.

had too resize them too had it at 10 mega pixle.. lol


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


i-Rocks KR-6230 with Cherry MX Browns $69.99 over 10 available on eBay.

some people don't like the layout because it has a vertical enter key, no windows key and the /? key.










consider this the Thermaltake Meka is coming out which is a rebranded I-Rocks KR-6230 but instead of Cherry MX Brown switches it uses Cherry MX Black Linear switches and I am sure it will cost more than $69.99. if you are using it for gaming only you shouldn't have any problems.

thanks to ricercar for the find.


I had that before. The only problem is how the back was raised which created an angle that gave me constant carpel tunnel.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gordesky1* 
does anyone know if this is a mechanical?

had this for awhile and had it in storage for awhile i got it back in 2000 at a garage sale. and it really needs a clean up lol

but from what it says it was made in 95 96.

i got the pics as attachments if that is ok.

had too resize them too had it at 10 mega pixle.. lol

It isn't any switch I've ever seen. It might just be a discrete rubber dome switch.


----------



## gordesky1

hmm is there any tests i can do too see if is really a mechanical or not?

i thought i would do this test were you push alot of keys too see if it registers and i did this 12345678 all eight keys and it did it which my saitek cybord fails at... i even tried it on my Microsoft Natural Keyboard Elite which is made in 1998 which im using now sense it feels nice too me but its a dome membrane sense i pulled the key off and it has a hole too a rubber pad.

but does that mean anything that it registers all 8 keys?

i know one thing the keys do have a much solid feel when you push down on them.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gordesky1* 
hmm is there any tests i can do too see if is really a mechanical or not?

i thought i would do this test were you push alot of keys too see if it registers and i did this 12345678 all eight keys and it did it which my saitek cybord fails at... i even tried it on my Microsoft Natural Keyboard Elite which is made in 1998 which im using now sense it feels nice too me but its a dome membrane sense i pulled the key off and it has a hole too a rubber pad.

but does that mean anything that it registers all 8 keys?

i know one thing the keys do have a much solid feel when you push down on them.

If the keys have to be pressed all the way down in order to send the keystroke to the computer, then it's likely just a rubber dome keyboard. But if the keystroke can be sent by just pressing the key only about halfway down, then it might be a mechanical.

However, thanks to the fancier-looking Spacebar and that curvy wrist rest, I'm betting that it's just another rubber dome keyboard.


----------



## gordesky1

yep your right lol i figure i take it apart and see what it is really and there's those little rubber domes... lol but they look too be better made than the new stuff that's for sure.

i know i have a mechanical somewhere sense i have keyboards from the 80s.

when did they start making rubber domes?

this is one of the old computers that i have which says 1987 on the keyboard

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...26tbs%3Disch:1

but the keys are very loud and has really good feedback but really don't know if its mechanical or not sense i cant find any info on it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gordesky1* 
yep your right lol i figure i take it apart and see what it is really and there's those little rubber domes... lol but they look too be better made than the new stuff that's for sure.

i know i have a mechanical somewhere sense i have keyboards from the 80s.

when did they start making rubber domes?

this is one of the old computers that i have which says 1987 on the keyboard

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...26tbs%3Disch:1

but the keys are very loud and has really good feedback but really don't know if its mechanical or not sense i cant find any info on it.

That keyboard probably has the Buckling Spring type. As I said before, if the keys need to be pressed all the way down in order to send the keystroke to the computer, then it's likely a rubber dome. But if the keystroke can be sent by just pressing the key halfway, then it's likely a mechanical keyboard.

But does it sound anything like the IBM Model M?













This video is a great example of how the Buckling Springs sound.


----------



## lmnop

here is a link to webwit's IBM simulator.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


here is a link to webwit's IBM simulator.


Holy cow, that's awesome. They should make them for more keyboards/switch types.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gordesky1*


hmm is there any tests i can do too see if is really a mechanical or not?

i thought i would do this test were you push alot of keys too see if it registers and i did this 12345678 all eight keys and it did it which my saitek cybord fails at... i even tried it on my Microsoft Natural Keyboard Elite which is made in 1998 which im using now sense it feels nice too me but its a dome membrane sense i pulled the key off and it has a hole too a rubber pad.

but does that mean anything that it registers all 8 keys?

i know one thing the keys do have a much solid feel when you push down on them.


A test for whether it is mechanical or not? Lawl

There's no guaranteed advantages of a mechanical keyboard over any other type of keyboard. There's mechanical keyboards that have worse rollover capabilities than some rubber dome keyboards, some are less reliable than some rubber dome keyboards, some are even less pleasant to type on... Really what you should concern yourself with is whether you like typing/gaming on it, which is something that you can test quite easily.

Besides, some of the best keyboards around are non-mechanical - take the Model M for example.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gordesky1*


i know i have a mechanical somewhere sense i have keyboards from the 80s.

when did they start making rubber domes?


Around the mid eighties, but they didn't become popular till the 90s. Before that, they had what were called foam and foil switches, which were arguably worse than rubber dome keyboards, in particular they had no tactility and were quite mushy.

Quote:



this is one of the old computers that i have which says 1987 on the keyboard

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...26tbs%3Disch:1

but the keys are very loud and has really good feedback but really don't know if its mechanical or not sense i cant find any info on it.



Quote:



That keyboard probably has the Buckling Spring type.


That thing is definitely not a Buckling Spring keyboard, it's some clone keyboard, but almost definitely mechanical with Alps or similar switches... There's a lot of Japanese/Taiwanese keyboards from that age that all look alike and the identification of them is something of an arcane art... Post it up on Geekhack.org, someone will be able to identify it easily enough.

EDIT: Not the same keyboard, but similar... here -

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=9727&do=comments


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The Model M... not mechanical?


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


The Model M... not mechanical?











That's what I was thinking. Perhaps he is talking about some of the more recent M's that were domers.


----------



## Marin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


The Model M... not mechanical?











They use Slinky technology.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


They use Slinky technology.


That reminds me, I miss my old Slinky's. I could watch them walk down stairs for hours.


----------



## lmnop

<throws a chicken foot down on the floor>

CHICKEN FOOT SAMMY!


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
That's what I was thinking. Perhaps he is talking about some of the more recent M's that were domers.

I was talking about the buckling spring ones.

Let me be less oblique... how do you define a 'mechanical' keyboard?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
I was talking about the buckling spring ones.

They aren't mechanical switches, but they are mechanical.


----------



## ch_123

Again, this depends on what you mean by 'mechanical'. In a Model M, a metal spring collapses and causes two electrical contacts to be pushed together. In a rubber dome keyboard, a springy piece of rubber collapses and causes two electrical contacts to be pushed together. Both have the main contact (i.e the one that is hooked up to the controller) on a membrane. Whilst my description is a bit over-simplified, the basic underlying method of operation is almost identical.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


I was talking about the buckling spring ones.

Let me be less oblique... how do you define a 'mechanical' keyboard?


If it relies on a spring then I dub thee mechanical (as most mechanical switches all have a spring in there on some level).

If it relies on a rubber membrane, I dub thee "domer".

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Again, this depends on what you mean by 'mechanical'. In a Model M, a metal spring collapses and causes two electrical contacts to be pushed together. In a rubber dome keyboard, a springy piece of rubber collapses and causes two electrical contacts to be pushed together. Both have the main contact (i.e the one that is hooked up to the controller) on a membrane. Whilst my description is a bit over-simplified, the basic underlying method of operation is almost identical.


You could describe any switch as inevitably tripping a contact, but that doesn't make them the same. lol

That's why I go by the spring vs. no spring methodology.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

BS are mechanical. Cherry MY switches are switch over membrane; so are Model Ms. Still mechanical, since it isn't rubber dome and involves the movement of a mechanical part (the spring).


----------



## Marin

Topre. Rubber dome + spring.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


Topre. Rubber dome + spring.


Mind = Blown.


----------



## gordesky1

i still have too look too see if i have any mechanical s.

but i was wondering how is the abs m1? cause i was thinking of getting one and wondering how is it for gaming?

keyboards im using is a microsoft natural elite keyboard which is the old one which im using as my main keyboard now sense it seems to be a decent dome type keyboard and i have a saitek cyborg which i was using before the Microsoft lol

seems like im going for the older type stuff lol like right now i bought and using a logitech trackball and loving it for gaming and what ever lol

mouse i was using before was the razer mamba... which i loved alot but seems like its gonna go too waste now... just like my saitek cyborg.. but ya now i know what too look for now on.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
If it relies on a spring then I dub thee mechanical (as most mechanical switches all have a spring in there on some level).

If it relies on a rubber membrane, I dub thee "domer".

But the rubber dome is effectively a spring if you think about it. If you say "only the conventional coil type of springs" then you rule out things like Beam Spring switches and some other types of what are widely considered 'mechanical' keyboards.

And as pointed out, Model Ms are membrane keyboards.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


I was talking about the buckling spring ones.

Let me be less oblique... how do you define a 'mechanical' keyboard?


If the switch type involves a metal spring, then I consider it to be a mechanical keyboard (I think that this might be perfectly aligned with the actual definition of a mechanical keyboard).

However, I am fully aware that technically speaking, keyboards using switches like the Topre Capacitive Switch (or whatever you'd like to call it) are considered to be more of a "rubber dome" keyboard. But as we know, they're actually a hybrid between mechanical and rubber dome since they have a metal spring underneath a rubber dome.

And so it is with the IBM Model M: even though it uses that membrane, it is still a mechanical keyboard.

*Disclaimer: *I'm not trying to say or insinuate that you don't know what you're talking about, but instead I am just tossing in my 2Â¢.


----------



## ch_123

Yeah, the metal spring definition is the best I've heard. For the sake of being anal for the sake of being anal, I'd say mechanical keyboards are the sort of computer keyboards used in the 60s that which used an electro-mechanical mechanism for registering keys, and had almost no electronic components in them (most of these were derived from electric typewriters such as the IBM Selectric) Of course, this would destroy the convenient name for these keyboards that we all know and love.

The point I'm making? None really... It's just when the poster a page or two back was talking about having a 'test' for whether a keyboard is mechanical or not, it reminded me of a lengthy discussion on Geekhack over what exactly a mechanical keyboard is and how it was inaccurate for lots of popular 'mechanical' keyboards.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


But the rubber dome is effectively a spring if you think about it. If you say "only the conventional coil type of springs" then you rule out things like Beam Spring switches and some other types of what are widely considered 'mechanical' keyboards.

And as pointed out, Model Ms are membrane keyboards.


If having a membrane makes a keyboard non-mechanical, then by that logic having a PCB makes it mechanical. But there are rubber dome boards that use PCBs, Topre being the most common one of them.

Your logic is flawed.

Not that saying that having a spring makes it mechanical is any better (like someone else pointed out, there's always Topre to debunk that one too). And there are always the foam and reed switches - which use springs - to screw that one up too.


----------



## ch_123

Since when was a Topre a rubber dome keyboard?

Sure, it has a rubber dome in the mechanism, but it's purpose is to provide some degree of tactility (as opposed to doing everything in the case of the rubber dome keyboard), and the operation of the whole mechanism is otherwise completely different to that of a rubber dome keyboard.

It's like saying that Cherry switches and Buckling Springs are the same thing because they both have springs in them that share some degree of common purpose despite the fact that they are otherwise completely unrelated.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Since when was a Topre a rubber dome keyboard?

Sure, it has a rubber dome in the mechanism, but it's purpose is to provide some degree of tactility (as opposed to doing everything in the case of the rubber dome keyboard), and the operation of the whole mechanism is otherwise completely different to that of a rubber dome keyboard.

It's like saying that Cherry switches and Buckling Springs are the same thing because they both have springs in them that share some degree of common purpose despite the fact that they are otherwise completely unrelated.

It _is_ a rubber dome board, it just uses a capacitive mechanism for detecting keypresses instead of a direct-contact one. Unless they're using some new material for those domes that isn't rubber, it's still a rubber dome. Traditional rubber domes even have two different methods of creating a contact, which is either using a graphite coating on the bottom of the dome to contact two close circuit traces or simply pressing two membranes together. Using a spring for capacitance is just a third method.

And at the same time, if you want to say buckling springs aren't mechanical, what about the Model F? It uses the same mechanism as a Model M except the's metal on the hammers to create a capacitance with the PCB. You can't say that one is mechanical and the other isn't, because they still use the EXACT same mechanism.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
It _is_ a rubber dome board, it just uses a capacitive mechanism for detecting keypresses instead of a direct-contact one. Unless they're using some new material for those domes that isn't rubber, it's still a rubber dome. Traditional rubber domes even have two different methods of creating a contact, which is either using a graphite coating on the bottom of the dome to contact two close circuit traces or simply pressing two membranes together. Using a spring for capacitance is just a third method.

It boils down to this - remove the rubber dome from a rubber dome keyboard and you have nothing. Remove the rubber dome from a Topre and you've got a working linear capacitive keyboard.

Quote:

And at the same time, if you want to say buckling springs aren't mechanical, what about the Model F? It uses the same mechanism as a Model M except the's metal on the hammers to create a capacitance with the PCB. You can't say that one is mechanical and the other isn't, because they still use the EXACT same mechanism.
Yes, if you assume that the Model M is not a mechanical keyboard, then the Model F wouldn't be either. But again, this depends on what you use to quantify 'mechanical'. If we use the metal spring definition, they're both mechanical. If you go by the technique used by the keyboard to detect a keypress then they are not - the Model M is a membrane keyboard and the Model F is a capacitive keyboard.


----------



## TwoCables

For the sake of argument and practicality, we consider the Topre, Model M and Model F to be mechanical keyboards. It also helps distinguish them from rubber dome keyboards, like the 90% of keyboards found at the most popular stores like Newegg or Best Buy (or sometimes 100% of them).

It's just much easier to have only two categories like that and to avoid putting the Topre and Buckling Spring membrane boards in any other category besides "mechanical". It's just easier - especially for the potential convert.


----------



## ch_123

Yeah, I agree with you completely. I just find it interesting to discuss semantics sometimes


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
It boils down to this - remove the rubber dome from a rubber dome keyboard and you have nothing. Remove the rubber dome from a Topre and you've got a working linear capacitive keyboard.

Yes, if you assume that the Model M is not a mechanical keyboard, then the Model F wouldn't be either. But again, this depends on what you use to quantify 'mechanical'. If we use the metal spring definition, they're both mechanical. If you go by the technique used by the keyboard to detect a keypress then they are not - the Model M is a membrane keyboard and the Model F is a capacitive keyboard.


Except "capacitive" refers to the method that the controller uses to detect keypresses, while "mechanical" refers to the physical method that guides the key's movement and creates electrical contact, and "membrane" refers to what the matrix circuitry is printed on. They are not mutually exclusive from each other. A Model F is a capacitive mechanical board, a Topre is a capacitive rubber dome board, and a Model M is a mechanical membrane board.


----------



## lmnop

miniguru is canceled but all is not lost. KBC is releasing their own SFF










PCB Mounted Cherry MX Brown, Blue and Black switches. PBT Keycaps, PBT Casing, n-Key Rollover, Removable Cable.

I think imsto mentioned it will be available on the US Market via eBay and will retail for $120

more info here.


----------



## Crazy9000

Why are small boards so popular with mechanicals? Is it just because they use less switches, so are noticeably cheaper?


----------



## TwoCables

I think my dream keyboard right now is a full-size version of that board from KBC, but with plate-mounted switches.


----------



## lmnop

every single SFF mechanical keyboard I have seen except the Cherry G84-4100 is expensive.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I think my dream keyboard right now is a full-size version of that board from KBC, but with plate-mounted switches.


PCB mount isn't a problem if the casing is strong.


----------



## Crazy9000

The smaller Decks are cheaper then the full size.

I just hate sff boards, lol.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


The smaller Decks are cheaper then the full size.

I just hate sff boards, lol.


not by much. even the Cherry G84-4100 on the retail market is expensive.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


every single SFF mechanical keyboard I have seen except the Cherry G84-4100 is expensive.


He's asking if they're popular because they might be cheaper than they otherwise would be if they were full-size.

So, he's just asking why they're popular. Well, at least he's saying that they seem popular. Are they as popular as he seems to think?


----------



## lmnop

and I answered no they are more expensive


----------



## lmnop

this one here cost over $200 USD.


----------



## Crazy9000

Isn't that just because it's uncommon though? I can't imagine why they would cost more to make.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Isn't that just because it's uncommon though? I can't imagine why they would cost more to make.


no it's the retail price couple stores in Asia sell it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


and I answered no they are more expensive










And the question is this: are they popular because they're cheaper than they would be if they were full-size instead of SFF?

Also, _are_ they popular?


----------



## lmnop

No
YES


----------



## -=R00bin=-

Hey all,

I just recieved a realforce 103ub after using my Filco for a good 6 months...**** I LOVE THIS KEYBOARD!!!!! It feels so ****ing good.

Questions for people who already have it:

Does the feeling go away over time like ****ty logitech kbds?

Does the texture on the keys wear off?

Thanks


----------



## Crazy9000

That is one weird keyboard, lol.

The Deck Ice 82 is a good $40 cheaper, which is why I thought they would be cheaper to make, and therefore cheaper to buy. Looks like the tenkeyless Filco are also a little bit cheaper, but more around $10 cheaper.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *-=R00bin=-*


Hey all,

I just recieved a realforce 103ub after using my Filco for a good 6 months...**** I LOVE THIS KEYBOARD!!!!! It feels so ****ing good.

Questions for people who already have it:

Does the feeling go away over time like ****ty logitech kbds?

Does the texture on the keys wear off?

Thanks


1. No
2. Depends on board. Usually not, and probably not for that realforce


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *-=R00bin=-*


Hey all,

I just recieved a realforce 103ub after using my Filco for a good 6 months...**** I LOVE THIS KEYBOARD!!!!! It feels so ****ing good.

Questions for people who already have it:

Does the feeling go away over time like ****ty logitech kbds?

Does the texture on the keys wear off?

Thanks


they will get shiny after a long time of use but the lettering won't wear off.


----------



## Crazy9000

I think he means the texture, the realforce has a really good texture on the keys.


----------



## lmnop

yeah I think it will a little.


----------



## CudaBoy71

Quick question on the model M keyboard...If I were to purchase one of these keyboards will it work w/out having to mod the cable?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CudaBoy71* 
Quick question on the model M keyboard...If I were to purchase one of these keyboards will it work w/out having to mod the cable?

Most of them are just ps/2 I believe. You should be able to get an adapter for the old DIN port thing too if you end up finding one that has it.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Why are small boards so popular with mechanicals? Is it just because they use less switches, so are noticeably cheaper?

1) People like small stuff.

2) Small keyboards let you have your hands closer together when you're using the mouse, which means that tenkeyless boards have better ergonomic value over those silly Logitech/Microsoft 'curved' keyboards. If you've used a compact keyboard for a while, it's hard to go back to a fullsize...


----------



## Marin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
1) People like small stuff.

*2) Small keyboards let you have your hands closer together when you're using the mouse, which means that tenkeyless boards have better ergonomic value over those silly Logitech/Microsoft 'curved' keyboards. If you've used a compact keyboard for a while, it's hard to go back to a fullsize...*

This is the reason I went for a tenkeyless keyboard.


----------



## Crazy9000

I don't think being ergonomic is a good argument. I've never heard of someone getting tennis elbow from using a keyboard with a numpad







.

I can understand people liking the mouse closer though, but personally I don't think it helps any.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ck-boards.html

I'm gonna have to ask what the OP is asking in this thread... because the 7G is cheaper in some places and has the same switches but a USB hub + audio pass-through and a BIG wrist rest. Which one would really be better? I ask because I underestimated the noise profile on MX Blacks and now have a desire for them.


----------



## Marin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I don't think being ergonomic is a good argument. I've never heard of someone getting tennis elbow from using a keyboard with a numpad







.

I can understand people liking the mouse closer though, but personally I don't think it helps any.

It's not like that, lol. I found when I was using massive keyboard like the G15 (when gaming), my mouse pad would be jammed against the corner of the keyboard and I'd only be using the mouse on the far left side.

With the tenkeyless I find myself positioning the mouse in the center when gaming (like it should be). If that makes sense.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I don't think being ergonomic is a good argument. I've never heard of someone getting tennis elbow from using a keyboard with a numpad







.

I've seen all sorts of serious websites on ergonomics (including one of a US Government agency) that recommend compact keyboards for the same reason, so I think it's more of a issue than people may think.

Quote:

I can understand people liking the mouse closer though, but personally I don't think it helps any.
Neither did I when I first heard it. It's something you have to try to fully appreciate.


----------



## Derp

Is there a specific reason as to why keyboards with red's are non existent? filco keyboards come with blue, black and brown switches but not red?


----------



## ch_123

Two things to consider -

1) Cherry makes two variations of its switches - ones that are designed to be mounted on a metal plate, and ones that are designed to be mounted directly on a PCB. AFAIK, Cherry only makes PCB mounted versions of the Reds, and the Filco (and just about every Cherry switch keyboard that is not made by Cherry themselves) use the plate mounted type.

2) For some reason, all the Red switch keyboards they make get sent over to Asia.


----------



## Derp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Two things to consider -

1) Cherry makes two variations of its switches - ones that are designed to be mounted on a metal plate, and ones that are designed to be mounted directly on a PCB. AFAIK, Cherry only makes PCB mounted versions of the Reds, and the Filco (and just about every Cherry switch keyboard that is not made by Cherry themselves) use the plate mounted type.

2) For some reason, all the Red switch keyboards they make get sent over to Asia.


It's very unfortunate. After reading through the switch descriptions again the reds would be my first choice If I was going to drop $142 on a tenkeyless.


----------



## gordesky1

i was thinking of buying a abs m1 sense i want too try a mechanical keyboards and got tried of buying keyboards which is membranes and after couple months they feel like crap and don't have that feel like when they was new lol

but heres the questions

is the abs m1 good?

is it good for gaming?

and if i could get it for around 40$ is it worth it?

i just want a good feeling keyboard and love the noises they produce

or should i wait till i could afford a higher one?

the keyboard i am now using today which i found in my stash lol is a gate way 2000 anykey keyboard which is made by Maxi Switch from what it says in the back so it uses rubber dome switch's i guess that are close too mechanical s?

but so far i love the feel of this keyboard and makes a pretty good audio sound. and also acts like a really old g15 sense it does macros and remaps which works.

but i want little more sound of the keys when i type


----------



## W4LNUT5

You'd be happy with an M1. It's a great introduction to mechanical keyboards, and since you don't mind noise there shouldn't be any major concerns.

$40 is a fair price for the M1. I'd try for $40w/shipping max.

And that gateway keyboard is nowhere near being a mechanical. It's the same cheap rubber dome design that is very common today. You'll notice that the M1 is waaaayy better.

If you want more noise, try and find a keyboard with Cherry MX Blue switches. They purposely make a *click* halfway down the keystroke. (The M1 does not do this, but does have a decent sound if you bottom the keys out)


----------



## ch_123

If you don't mind getting a clunky, beige keyboard, for trying out mechanicals I'd get a Dell AT101W. They use similar but better switches than the ABS M1, and they are quite cheap on eBay (there was a point where you could get an unused one for $5, not sure whether that is still true)


----------



## Marin

Miniguru has been canceled.


----------



## gordesky1

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
If you don't mind getting a clunky, beige keyboard, for trying out mechanicals I'd get a Dell AT101W. They use similar but better switches than the ABS M1, and they are quite cheap on eBay (there was a point where you could get an unused one for $5, not sure whether that is still true)


hmm hows the dell at101w for gaming?

ya i don't see any new ones on ebay but i do see ones that doesn't have much wear if any at all.

but i pretty much gonna used the keyboard for my main keyboard if i like it which im sure i will but i want it too perform good in gaming like have couple keys pressed at the same time.

so which one will be great for gaming

m1 or the dell?

ya i really don't mind how much space a keyboard will take up sense i keep my trackman up from the keyboard tray and its a trackman so it just stays still









also by the videos i look on youtube the m1 sounds louder than the dell is that true? or is it because they not typing hard enough on the dell?


----------



## striker1989

hey everyone im looking at mechanical keyboards for my desktop

What I plan to use it for is
Gaming (most likely fps games)
Typing (probably this more)

Things I care about
amount of noise that occurs as i type/button bash it, and i will be using it in the middle of the night, late night studies, so i dont want to disturb anyone with excessive clicking.
typing to gaming tradeoff

so anyone got any ideas??


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gordesky1* 
hmm hows the dell at101w for gaming?

ya i don't see any new ones on ebay but i do see ones that doesn't have much wear if any at all.

but i pretty much gonna used the keyboard for my main keyboard if i like it which im sure i will but i want it too perform good in gaming like have couple keys pressed at the same time.

so which one will be great for gaming

m1 or the dell?

ya i really don't mind how much space a keyboard will take up sense i keep my trackman up from the keyboard tray and its a trackman so it just stays still









also by the videos i look on youtube the m1 sounds louder than the dell is that true? or is it because they not typing hard enough on the dell?

They're fine for gaming, I've played through all of L4D2 and GTA4 on an AT-101 (albeit an older non-Dell branded one) without any problems. I'm not sure how the rollover is like on the ABS, on the AT-101 it's standard 2-key rollover, but it works alright.

If you get an AT-101W, you'd be best trying to get a new one. The switches don't age well, so if you get someone's well loved 10+ year old one, they aren't particularly pleasant to type on.


----------



## mondalaci

http://www.guru-board.com/miniguru-cancelled

**** happens...

The Miniguru was the closest keyboard to what we're developing. I can understand them ditching the project for financial reasons. Nevertheless we're not about to give up despite such a niche market is not a gold mine.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Two things to consider -

1) Cherry makes two variations of its switches - ones that are designed to be mounted on a metal plate, and ones that are designed to be mounted directly on a PCB. AFAIK, *Cherry only makes PCB mounted versions of the Reds*, and the Filco (and just about every Cherry switch keyboard that is not made by Cherry themselves) use the plate mounted type.

2) For some reason, all the Red switch keyboards they make get sent over to Asia.


Cherry MX Red Linear switches in Cherry Keyboards are Plate Mounted. the i-Rocks KR-6250 was the first PCB Mounted.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *striker1989*


hey everyone im looking at mechanical keyboards for my desktop

What I plan to use it for is 
Gaming (most likely fps games)
Typing (probably this more)

Things I care about
amount of noise that occurs as i type/button bash it, and i will be using it in the middle of the night, late night studies, so i dont want to disturb anyone with excessive clicking. 
typing to gaming tradeoff

so anyone got any ideas??


Any mechanical keyboard that you get will be loud and "clacky" if you can never stop bottoming out (which is what you said you do by saying _"I type/button bash it"_).

So, if you want a quiet mechanical keyboard, then go with a keyboard that has the Cherry MX Browns and then become very determined to learn how to avoid bottoming out. It can be done since the keys do not have to be pressed all the way down just to send the keystroke to the computer.

Of course, you can also use Dental Bands as shown here:

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:8857

I have not done this yet. But I don't want to either.


----------



## lmnop

the i-Rocks KR-6230 with Cherry MX Browns I posted the other day are US Layout not Asian like the pictures. someone at geekhack talked to the seller so thanks for that.


----------



## barrysgoods

Seems like everyone here knows a ton about keyboards, I know very little. I want a really good gaming and typing keyboard, I read that the steelseries 7g is really good, it's a no click mechanical keyboard, so the lightest touch and it will register my movement in counter strike.

Is the 7g a good buy ($115) or do you suggest something else?


----------



## james...

Hey guys. I want a mechanical.

Here's what I'm needing.

-Standard layout (with numpad)
-Comfortable and not massive
-Nothing TOO loud. Clickity clack is fine.
-Tactile feel is a must
-Under $80 (can be used)

I'm thinking maybe a Das keyboard. The ultimate with the black keys intrigues me.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *barrysgoods*


Seems like everyone here knows a ton about keyboards, I know very little. I want a really good gaming and typing keyboard, I read that the steelseries 7g is really good, it's a no click mechanical keyboard, so the lightest touch and it will register my movement in counter strike.

Is the 7g a good buy ($115) or do you suggest something else?


I wouldn't say it's light. Cherry MX Black Linear switches require 60g of force to actuate. you will probably want a keyboard with Cherry MX Brown switches either a Filco TenKeyLess Tactile Touch, Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch or Das Professional Model S Silent.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *james...*


Hey guys. I want a mechanical.

Here's what I'm needing.

-Standard layout (with numpad)
-Comfortable and not massive
-Nothing TOO loud. Clickity clack is fine.
-Tactile feel is a must
-Under $80 (can be used)

I'm thinking maybe a Das keyboard. The ultimate with the black keys intrigues me.


see this thread I posted 2 used Das Ultimate Model S on eBay.


----------



## fssbzz

steelseries 6Gv2 a mechanical?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


steelseries 6Gv2 a mechanical?


yes.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


yes.


what kind of switches?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


what kind of switches?


Cherry MX Black Linear. see this thread.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Cherry MX Black Linear. see this thread.


thanks you always been a great help to me


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


thanks you always been a great help to me










you're welcome







<spins the fan on your heatsink>


----------



## striker1989

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Any mechanical keyboard that you get will be loud and "clacky" if you can never stop bottoming out (which is what you said you do by saying _"I type/button bash it"_).

So, if you want a quiet mechanical keyboard, then go with a keyboard that has the Cherry MX Browns and then become very determined to learn how to avoid bottoming out. It can be done since the keys do not have to be pressed all the way down just to send the keystroke to the computer.

Of course, you can also use Dental Bands as shown here:

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:8857

I have not done this yet. But I don't want to either.










do browns of blues sound like a regular keyboard or are they louder?
bottoming out means going all the way to the bottom when I press the keys?


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *striker1989*


do browns of blues sound like a regular keyboard or are they louder?
bottoming out means going all the way to the bottom when I press the keys?


Youtube the Filco Tactile Click ( Blues ) and Filco Tactile Touch ( Browns ). You should get a general idea of how they sound.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *striker1989*


do browns of blues sound like a regular keyboard or are they louder?
bottoming out means going all the way to the bottom when I press the keys?


http://www.viddler.com/explore/HotHardware/videos/69/

Cherry MX switches are louder than rubber domes but not louder than Alps or Buckling Spring switches.

yes.


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I wouldn't say it's light. Cherry MX Black Linear switches require 60g of force to actuate. you will probably want a keyboard with Cherry MX Brown switches either a Filco TenKeyLess Tactile Touch, Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch or Das Professional Model S Silent.


That DAS keyboard looks incredible. So could you just explain to me briefly why that would be better than the 7g for gaming and also if the DAS is the best choice of the 3 you suggested?

Thanks so much keyboard guru!


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barrysgoods* 
That DAS keyboard looks incredible. So could you just explain to me briefly why that would be better than the 7g for gaming and also if the DAS is the best choice of the 3 you suggested?

Thanks so much keyboard guru!

tactile and audible feedback increase typing accuracy and speed. Cherry MX Black switches are Linear which means they have no tactile or audible feedback so they are not suited for typing. another reason they are not suited for typing is because they require 60g of force to actuate other Cherry MX Switches like Brown or Blue require 45-55g of force to actuate so your fingers won't get tired if you have to type out articles or papers.

Cherry MX Black switches are suited for gaming because the high force ensures no accidental keystrokes.

Cherry MX Brown switches are suited for both typing and gaming because they are low force and have a subtle tactile feedback.

if you want a better presentation of Cherry MX switches see here.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *striker1989* 
do browns of blues sound like a regular keyboard or are they louder?

The Cherry MX Browns have no click, but the Cherry MX Blues do. This click sound is the sound of the switch itself and is quieter than the sound of bottoming out. The click sound is very similar to the click that a retractable pen makes, but only quieter and nicer.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *striker1989* 
bottoming out means going all the way to the bottom when I press the keys?

Precisely. When not bottoming out on a keyboard that uses the Cherry MX Blues, it is a very nice clicky sound. When not bottoming out on a keyboard that has the Cherry MX Browns, it's more of the very subtle sound of the keys since the switches don't have any kind of mechanics to make a certain sound.

But ultimately, I agree that it's a good idea to use YouTube to hear the sounds for yourself. After you've seen a few videos, you will be able to easily tell whether or not a keyboard is "clicky". It just has a certain sound, and it's very crisp, and wonderfully crunchy!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barrysgoods* 
That DAS keyboard looks incredible. So could you just explain to me briefly why that would be better than the 7g for gaming and also if the DAS is the best choice of the 3 you suggested?

Thanks so much keyboard guru!

Unfortunately, it's a very personal decision.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
The Cherry MX Browns have no click, but the Unfortunately, it's a very personal decision.

I love how you almost make keyboards out to be people. It almost makes me want to name mine. (and possibly marry it too)


----------



## technodanvan

I have to say I'm a huge anti-fan of 'tactile feedback' on my Das Professional S Silent.

The switch doesn't necessarily have to de-actuate in order to type again, yet the mind thinks it does. So whenever I type a word with a double letter (like, say, 'letter') it's slower than it would be if I just had a normal keyboard. Or if I don't de-actuate all the way, I'll think I missed it so I'll tap again.

Blame me if you will, but it's a poor switch as far as I'm concerned. If there is a click, it needs to both actuate and de-actuate on the click. That's the point of tactile feedback, and yet it doesn't do that.

Haven't decided if I'm keeping it yet. It's nice in some ways, but it's also not nice in others. If I try a mechanical after this it would need to be a linear variant...but honestly I doubt it's worth the money as a wireless keyboard seems a more beneficial/appropriate peripheral in a home office setting.


----------



## striker1989

i really cant decide between the blue and brown
wish there was a place to test run these


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *striker1989*


i really cant decide between the blue and brown
wish there was a place to test run these


Brown is the easiest choice.


----------



## striker1989

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Brown is the easiest choice.


kk brown it is


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *technodanvan*


I have to say I'm a huge anti-fan of 'tactile feedback' on my Das Professional S Silent.

The switch doesn't necessarily have to de-actuate in order to type again, yet the mind thinks it does. So whenever I type a word with a double letter (like, say, 'letter') it's slower than it would be if I just had a normal keyboard. Or if I don't de-actuate all the way, I'll think I missed it so I'll tap again.


It doesn't suit you're preferences then. Find a different switch type, or learn to love the switches you're stuck with.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *technodanvan*


Blame me if you will, *but it's a poor switch as far as I'm concerned*. If there is a click, it needs to both actuate and de-actuate on the click. That's the point of tactile feedback, and yet it doesn't do that.


Not sure why you blame the _switch_. Many people use the Browns without problems. Again, those switches don't fit you're preferences.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *technodanvan*


*The switch doesn't necessarily have to de-actuate in order to type again, yet the mind thinks it does.* So whenever I type a word with a double letter (like, say, 'letter') it's slower than it would be if I just had a normal keyboard. Or if I don't de-actuate all the way, I'll think I missed it so I'll tap again.


It _does_ have to deactuate. [De]actuation = when electrical contact is made or broken, not when you feel the tactile bumps. If you don't break electrical contact before pressing down again it's like you never let go in the first place.

But I know what you mean


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


If you don't mind getting a clunky, beige keyboard, for trying out mechanicals I'd get a Dell AT101W. They use similar but better switches than the ABS M1, and they are quite cheap on eBay (there was a point where you could get an unused one for $5, not sure whether that is still true)


I know I'm late to reply to this, but it was only 14hrs ago. Just wanted to mention that there are black at101w's out there that pop up on ebay every once in a while.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I love how you almost make keyboards out to be people. It almost makes me want to name mine. (and possibly marry it too)


We know you have already... So Mayatan, tell us, what's her name







.

/sarcasm


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *striker1989*


kk brown it is


now the milk or the money don't care which


----------



## rfjunkie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


1) People like small stuff.

2) Small keyboards let you have your hands closer together when you're using the mouse, which means that tenkeyless boards have better ergonomic value over those silly Logitech/Microsoft 'curved' keyboards. If you've used a compact keyboard for a while, it's hard to go back to a fullsize...


Also the tenkeyless boards are great for lefties, like me! That way I can use a Kinesis 10 key on the left side of the keyboard instead of reaching across like I have to at work... (Mouse is still on the right side.)


----------



## rfjunkie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Brown is the easiest choice.


I like my board with the browns in it!

Edit- I think I'm going to run it for a while instead of my Happy Hacking board on my other rig for a while...

Going back and forth from a Happy Hacking Keyboard to a Filco or Cherry takes a little getting used to... Key assignments and layout throws me off for about an hour or so after switching.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


I know I'm late to reply to this, but it was only 14hrs ago. Just wanted to mention that there are black at101w's out there that pop up on ebay every once in a while.


The quality of the keys on the black versions suck. The letters wear really easily.

Quote:



I have to say I'm a huge anti-fan of 'tactile feedback' on my Das Professional S Silent.

The switch doesn't necessarily have to de-actuate in order to type again, yet the mind thinks it does. So whenever I type a word with a double letter (like, say, 'letter') it's slower than it would be if I just had a normal keyboard. Or if I don't de-actuate all the way, I'll think I missed it so I'll tap again.

Blame me if you will, but it's a poor switch as far as I'm concerned. If there is a click, it needs to both actuate and de-actuate on the click. That's the point of tactile feedback, and yet it doesn't do that.

Haven't decided if I'm keeping it yet. It's nice in some ways, but it's also not nice in others. If I try a mechanical after this it would need to be a linear variant...but honestly I doubt it's worth the money as a wireless keyboard seems a more beneficial/appropriate peripheral in a home office setting.


The Blues in particular have this problem quite bad. It makes them less than ideal for gaming purposes.


----------



## gordesky1

i just ordered the abs m1 on ebay for 41shipped i figure i go for something newer for gaming for the n-key rollover sense i herd some m1s can have up too 6 key presses.

hopefully the m1 im getting has at least 4

but ya i still might pick up a dell at101w too sense they are cheep i was looking at the black ones but sense you said ch_123 they very prone to wear im not too sure about the black one than..

but i really don't care for colors much sense im using a gateway 2000 anykey and the color isint bothering me at all and i am enjoying this keyboard feels pretty good and has nice sound and nice how it does macros and stuff just like the g15 and its a 1994 lol

now i just wish i started getting in these type of keyboards couple months ago before i bought the saitek cyborg keyboard which cost me 80$.. its a nice keyboard and all but the keys just don't feel the same as when they was new...


----------



## kyle-reece

Quote:



Originally Posted by *technodanvan*


I have to say I'm a huge anti-fan of 'tactile feedback' on my Das Professional S Silent.

The switch doesn't necessarily have to de-actuate in order to type again, yet the mind thinks it does. So whenever I type a word with a double letter (like, say, 'letter') it's slower than it would be if I just had a normal keyboard. Or if I don't de-actuate all the way, I'll think I missed it so I'll tap again.

Blame me if you will, but it's a poor switch as far as I'm concerned. If there is a click, it needs to both actuate and de-actuate on the click. That's the point of tactile feedback, and yet it doesn't do that.

Haven't decided if I'm keeping it yet. It's nice in some ways, but it's also not nice in others. If I try a mechanical after this it would need to be a linear variant...but honestly I doubt it's worth the money as a wireless keyboard seems a more beneficial/appropriate peripheral in a home office setting.


only keyboards that click actuate and have tactile feedback at the same time are buckling springs, everything else is slightly off.


----------



## technodanvan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Not sure why you blame the _switch_. Many people use the Browns without problems. Again, those switches don't fit you're preferences.

Not sure what else to blame? Just because a bunch of other people get used to the wrongness of the switch doesn't make it 'right'.

Because I'm right and everyone else is wrong, of course.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
It _does_ have to deactuate. [De]actuation = when electrical contact is made or broken, not when you feel the tactile bumps. If you don't break electrical contact before pressing down again it's like you never let go in the first place.

But I know what you mean









Poor choice of word on my part, though I still feel it applies to the click itself, as that portion has to 'actuate' and 'deactuate' as well. It doesn't necessarily apply to only the electrical portion. But I've gotcha man...









Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
The Blues in particular have this problem quite bad. It makes them less than ideal for gaming purposes.

Yeah I would imagine so. Never used the blues, however since it's the same company and still has the click (only apparently louder/needs more force) I would assume it would be at least as bad.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kyle-reece* 
only keyboards that click actuate and have tactile feedback at the same time are buckling springs, everything else is slightly off.

Might have to look into it.

Still haven't decided what to do. Just got the board about two weeks ago so I've got time to return it, or of course sell it here at a small loss. It's not unbearable, but at times it becomes pretty annoying.

It's fine for gaming though. No better or worse than any keyboard I've used, I guess. I guess I might have reserved my discriminatory taste for music and don't really have a whole lot to share for gaming keyboards.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *technodanvan*


Not sure what else to blame? Just because a bunch of other people get used to the wrongness of the switch doesn't make it 'right'.

Because I'm right and everyone else is wrong, of course.









Poor choice of word on my part, though I still feel it applies to the click itself, as that portion has to 'actuate' and 'deactuate' as well. It doesn't necessarily apply to only the electrical portion. But I've gotcha man...









Yeah I would imagine so. Never used the blues, however since it's the same company and still has the click (only apparently louder/needs more force) I would assume it would be at least as bad.

Might have to look into it.

Still haven't decided what to do. Just got the board about two weeks ago so I've got time to return it, or of course sell it here at a small loss. It's not unbearable, but at times it becomes pretty annoying.

It's fine for gaming though. No better or worse than any keyboard I've used, I guess. I guess I might have reserved my discriminatory taste for music and don't really have a whole lot to share for gaming keyboards.


Here is what you have:









Here is what you want:









Simple as that.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *technodanvan*


Not sure what else to blame? Just because a bunch of other people get used to the wrongness of the switch doesn't make it 'right'.

Because I'm right and everyone else is wrong, of course.









Poor choice of word on my part, though I still feel it applies to the click itself, as that portion has to 'actuate' and 'deactuate' as well. It doesn't necessarily apply to only the electrical portion. But I've gotcha man...









Yeah I would imagine so. Never used the blues, however since it's the same company and still has the click (only apparently louder/needs more force) I would assume it would be at least as bad.

Might have to look into it.

Still haven't decided what to do. Just got the board about two weeks ago so I've got time to return it, or of course sell it here at a small loss. It's not unbearable, but at times it becomes pretty annoying.

It's fine for gaming though. No better or worse than any keyboard I've used, I guess. I guess I might have reserved my discriminatory taste for music and don't really have a whole lot to share for gaming keyboards.


I would return it asap, and get a board with linear switches. I don't see any reason to try to get used to a switch you don't like.

Just do yourself a favor and try some linear switches before you give up on mechanicals.


----------



## technodanvan

^^^

I think this is what I'll do. If I was willing to drop the money for this keyboard I should be willing to try it once more for a Filco or something.

I still doubt superiority of the mechanicals overall, however it isn't that much money to at least try it out.

I do like the appearance of my Das, at least.


----------



## Nickosha

Thermaltake is going to be releasing two mechanical keyboards soon with Cherry Blacks. They were shown off at Computex(bottom two). Take a close look at the first few keyboards shown, too, for the laughs.


----------



## james...

I'm thinking about getting a Filco otaku with cherry browns.

I do word processing and mild gaming. Good choice? Will I like the blank keys? Any other boards I should look at?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gordesky1*


i just ordered the abs m1 on ebay for 41shipped i figure i go for something newer for gaming for the n-key rollover sense i herd some m1s can have up too 6 key presses.

hopefully the m1 im getting has at least 4


USB spec limits the key rollover to 6 simultaneous key presses plus 4 modifiers (like Shift, Alt, Ctrl, etc.). So, that's what you're getting.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *gordesky1*


but ya i still might pick up a dell at101w too sense they are cheep i was looking at the black ones but sense you said ch_123 they very prone to wear im not too sure about the black one than..

but i really don't care for colors much sense im using a gateway 2000 anykey and the color isint bothering me at all and i am enjoying this keyboard feels pretty good and has nice sound and nice how it does macros and stuff just like the g15 and its a 1994 lol

now i just wish i started getting in these type of keyboards couple months ago before i bought the saitek cyborg keyboard which cost me 80$.. its a nice keyboard and all but the keys just don't feel the same as when they was new...


Everything happens for a reason.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *technodanvan*


Yeah I would imagine so. Never used the blues, however since it's the same company and still has the click (only apparently louder/needs more force) I would assume it would be at least as bad.


But the Cherry MX Browns don't make a click sound; only the Cherry MX Blue switch does.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *technodanvan*


Might have to look into it.

Still haven't decided what to do. Just got the board about two weeks ago so I've got time to return it, or of course sell it here at a small loss. It's not unbearable, but at times it becomes pretty annoying.

It's fine for gaming though. No better or worse than any keyboard I've used, I guess. I guess I might have reserved my discriminatory taste for music and don't really have a whole lot to share for gaming keyboards.


Then what you need is a keyboard with completely linear switches, like the Cherry MX Blacks. You see, you merely discovered that you prefer linear switches. Therefore, celebrate and be happy about your discovery.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *james...*


I'm thinking about getting a Filco otaku with cherry browns.

I do word processing and mild gaming. Good choice? Will I like the blank keys? Any other boards I should look at?


Since you do word processing but only "mild gaming", I recommend that you also consider keyboards with the Cherry MX Blues (consider both the Cherry MX Blues and Browns).

For future reference: all Filco Majestouch boards with the Cherry MX Browns are "Tactile Touch", while the boards with the Cherry MX Blues are "Tactile Click".

But regarding whether or not you'll like blank keys: this is a question that only you know the answer to.


----------



## james...

I considered the blues but I think they will be too noisy for me...?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *james...*


I considered the blues but I think they will be too noisy for me...?


did you watch the video I posted?


----------



## james...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


did you watch the video I posted?


I'll watch it right now.


----------



## james...

Watched it. I think I like the browns better. The blues have a piercing sound I dislike.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *james...*


I considered the blues but I think they will be too noisy for me...?


The sound of the click is very similar to the click that a retractable pen makes, but only it's quieter and sounds really nice.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *james...*


Watched it. I think I like the browns better. The blues have a piercing sound I dislike.


Then I'd like for you to watch more videos. Some videos just have too much treble and some microphones represent the click incorrectly. Or, it could be that your treble is cranked up way too high. I mean, it is not piercing at all. Consider this: why would so many people love the Cherry MX Blues switches if they had a piercing sound like that? Now, don't get me wrong: I have to agree that the Das Keyboard Professional in that video does have a piercing sound, but it is an inaccurate representation of the actual sound it makes.

Here are some videos I'd like for you to watch:































 (the audio recording on this one has the treble just a hair too high and the clicks are slightly piercing because of it, but it's still an ok representation of the clicks)

























 (take notice of how this microphone can't even pick up the click - it almost sounds like this keyboard has the Cherry MX Browns)




 *(if you don't watch any of the others, then watch this one)*
As you can hear, the click that the Cherry MX Blues has does not have a piercing sound, but instead a pleasing one.

Anyway, I hope that you watch all of these videos; especially the last one.


----------



## nijikon5

Those videos just made my eardrums bleed..... What a terrible noise.

Ok, all jokes aside, the noise from the click of the blues is rather subtle. Maybe it's just me, but the sound of the blues on how they sound in person vs. youtube/internet vids was different. I can understand why people might eventually get annoyed at the constant clicking, but it is a rather pleasant clicking noise to me.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
Those videos just made my eardrums bleed..... What a terrible noise.

Ok, all jokes aside, the noise from the click of the blues is rather subtle. Maybe it's just me, but the sound of the blues on how they sound in person vs. youtube/internet vids was different. I can understand why people might eventually get annoyed at the constant clicking, but it is a rather pleasant clicking noise to me.

As it is to most people. I haven't seen a computer enthusiast who hasn't enjoyed the clicking of the Blues/Buckling springs. Granted, I haven't shown it to many. (I haven't been around these parts long, fella's.)


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
Those videos just made my eardrums bleed..... What a terrible noise.

Ok, all jokes aside, the noise from the click of the blues is rather subtle. Maybe it's just me, but the sound of the blues on how they sound in person vs. youtube/internet vids was different. I can understand why people might eventually get annoyed at the constant clicking, but it is a rather pleasant clicking noise to me.

that is why I post the hothardware video for consistency. marco is a member of geekhack and showcases most mechanical key switches in the video.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


that is why I post the hothardware video for consistency. marco is a member of geekhack and showcases most mechanical key switches in the video.


+1 to this.

The sounds that Marco captures is probably most consistent with how it actually sounds in real life. I link that vid to my friends also who might be interested in Mech KBs.


----------



## Marin

I see TwoCables linked my video.









When I get back from LA I'll make a video of the click without the keys bottoming out.













Anyways, I absolutely love the click of the blues. In person, even with the keys bottoming out, the sound is really pleasant.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
that is why I post the hothardware video for consistency. marco is a member of geekhack and showcases most mechanical key switches in the video.

But his video made the Das Model S Professional sound rather piercing.

Here's an exaggeration of the sound I'm talking about:













Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
I see TwoCables linked my video.









When I get back from LA I'll make a video of the click without the keys bottoming out.






Anyways, I absolutely love the click of the blues. In person, even with the keys bottoming out, the sound is really pleasant.

Ah _ha!_ I _thought_ something was really familiar about the way that video looked! I mean, I have never seen it before; I'm just talking about the way it's focused, the lighting, etc. I guess I'm saying that I recognized your work.









Have you ever tried typing while hovering/floating your wrists?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But his video made the Das Model S Professional sound rather piercing.

Here's an exaggeration of the sound I'm talking about:






Ah _ha!_ I _thought_ something was really familiar about the way that video looked! I mean, I have never seen it before; I'm just talking about the way it's focused, the lighting, etc. I guess I'm saying that I recognized your work.









Have you ever tried typing while hovering/floating your wrists?

I guess. maybe it's the angle of his microphone. Filco and Das sound differently.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I guess. maybe it's the angle of his microphone.

Well, it's partly caused by the microphone being a condenser type instead of a dynamic. There's more to it than that, but I don't want to bore anyone with the details.

And yes, I know that they sound differently. Give me some credit here. But I _sincerely_ doubt that the Das Model S Professional has a piercing sound like that in real life.


----------



## lmnop

of course not there is some clack to it but everything else seems to sound how I remember it. the Solidtek/DSI ASK-6600 sounds pretty terrible.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
of course not there is some clack to it but everything else seems to sound how I remember it. the Solidtek/DSI ASK-6600 sounds pretty terrible.

Was it piercing like that?


----------



## lmnop

I have listened to it over and over. try turning the volume up it sounds better.

http://www.viddler.com/explore/HotHardware/videos/69/

use this to compare


----------



## james...

It's just that $120 is a lot for a keyboard. I don't wanna get the blues and then hate them.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *james...* 
It's just that $120 is a lot for a keyboard. I don't wanna get the blues and then hate them.

there is something you should know EliteKeyboards doesn't have a return policy. once you make a purchase you cannot return it unless it's a RMA. also the stock keycaps on the Filco Otaku models have a coating on them so they are going to get shiny faster.


----------



## james...

I might try getting a used keyboard with Cherry blues first. If I don't like them I'll buy a filco with browns.

I'm just thinking I would like the browns better since they are less noisy and require less pressure. (I have feeblish hands)


----------



## Phaedrus2129




----------



## skycyclepilot

So, does anyone make a mechanical switch keyboard with some multimedia keys??????


----------



## james...

I just ordered a Majestouch otaku with cherry browns.

I thought about it a lot, and the noise of the blues is just not for me, no matter how comfortable they are. I'm not the only one that lives in my house.


----------



## Thosesneakyfrench

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skycyclepilot* 
So, does anyone make a mechanical switch keyboard with some multimedia keys??????

I have a G80-8200, and it comes with some software that lets you program media keys and macros on the relegendable keys with relative ease. Though, I snatched it up for a ridiculous price, and even I'll admit to pay full sticker for this board is insane.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *james...* 
I just ordered a Majestouch otaku with cherry browns.

I thought about it a lot, and the noise of the blues is just not for me, no matter how comfortable they are. I'm not the only one that lives in my house.

Do you have a Frys near you? They stock SIIG mechanical KBs with cherry blues. You should at least give them a shot. I'd hold off on ordering from EKBs also like Imnop said, they have a strict no return policy. Order from Das' store and try them out before making a commitment.


----------



## Marin

Just got my MBP from college. So I'm thinking about getting a HHKB Pro 2 for it and setting it up like this.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/xsphat/3413262807/


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *james...* 
I just ordered a Majestouch otaku with cherry browns.

I thought about it a lot, and the noise of the blues is just not for me, no matter how comfortable they are. I'm not the only one that lives in my house.

You did the right thing. I mean, you went with the switch type that you think you will like the most!

However, are you ready to avoid bottoming out so that you're not making a bunch of noise? I mean, as I pointed out before, the clicks of the Cherry MX Blues are quieter than the sound of bottoming out the keys; the clicks are not that loud at all.


----------



## james...

Nah I know I will bottom out. In fact I want to.

I LOVE the lower pitched hit of the cherry browns. The blue's click is just annoying to me.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
Just got my MBP from college. So I'm thinking about getting a HHKB Pro 2 for it and setting it up like this.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/xsphat/3413262807/

That's why I'm getting a Thinkpad. The keyboard isn't great, but at least I don't need to spend money on a space saving keyboard to make up for it.

(though if I did I'd get a SIIG Minitouch







)


----------



## Marin

Even a Thinkpad wouldn't be sufficient.


----------



## Tator Tot

Regarding the SIIG Minitouch, what's the difference between the Minitouch & Minitouch Plus ?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Regarding the SIIG Minitouch, what's the difference between the Minitouch & Minitouch Plus ?

Minitouch Plus isn't mechanical. rubber dome.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Minitouch Plus isn't mechanical. rubber dome.

And yet it's the "Plus" model









Thanks for the info.

I was considering it since I saw one on sale for $30; I figured if it was Mechanical, that was a steal.


----------



## lmnop




----------



## barrysgoods

One thing I really like about the steelseries 7g is that it has no windows keys so you can't accidentally hit them and get minimized, that's the one thing I like about it.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barrysgoods* 
One thing I really like about the steelseries 7g is that it has no windows keys so you can't accidentally hit them and get minimized, that's the one thing I like about it.

you can disable a Windows Key on any keyboard using freeware such as AutoHotKey. all you have to do is load AutoHotKey before you play a game and it will disable the Windows Key automatically. you could also write a script to Enable/Disable the Windows Key.

Gigabyte had a Mechanical Keyboard called the GK-K8000 it was similar to the steelseries 7g but had some added features like a Windows Key Lock.


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
you can disable a Windows Key on any keyboard using freeware such as AutoHotKey. all you have to do is load AutoHotKey before you play a game and it will disable the Windows Key automatically. you could also write a script to Enable/Disable the Windows Key.

Gigabyte had a Mechanical Keyboard called the GK-K8000 it was similar to the steelseries 7g but had some added features like a Windows Key Lock.










Hmm pretty cool.


----------



## Maytan

I've found that I'm starting to hit the keys softer and softer. Going for that actuation point makes my typing feel so much more fluid.


----------



## Marin

Ordered a HHKB Pro 2 for my MBP. Going to order the carrying case later on since it's out-of-stock.


----------



## Maytan

Any recommended keycap pullers? Want to know for future cleaning/greasing. I just don't feel safe using a screwdriver..


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Any recommended keycap pullers? Want to know for future cleaning/greasing. I just don't feel safe using a screwdriver..

I like my method of an old PCI or any expansion card, using the tab. Otherwise pretty much any one you buy will be great.


----------



## fssbzz

ok planning to buy another mechanical keyboard.
for gaming and typing.
more on gaming

Majestouch Linear Force NKRO

Majestouch Tactile Touch NKRO

Majestouch Tactile Touch

Steelseries 7g

or should i go with Deck Keyboard?
i don't like Deck keyboard because the way they print on the keycaps.. doesn't feel nice.. or look nice...

any suggestion?


----------



## Crazy9000

The Decks feel fine, the font is just unusual.

Obviously the Deck are the "best" of the choices, especially with lots of gaming in mind.

What keyboard do you have now?


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


The Decks feel fine, the font is just unusual.

Obviously the Deck are the "best" of the choices, especially with lots of gaming in mind.

What keyboard do you have now?


abs m1


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I like my method of an old PCI or any expansion card, using the tab. Otherwise pretty much any one you buy will be great.

I don't have one of those lying around, unfortunately. I'll look around for a puller then.


----------



## Lawcheehung

Looking for an adapter to plug my old PS/2 IBM Model M, I've read about problems with keys not registering when using certain adapters or roll over n? Could someone inform me what type of adapter I should be using? (Ps/2 to usb). Been looking online at adapters and here's what I've come up with:

http://www.canadacomputers.com/produ...isqm9qshbgrhf4

http://www.canadacomputers.com/produ...isqm9qshbgrhf4

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...b1470a345den02

edit: I also heard things like this can happen

Quote:

Yea, you can't do this like CTRL+C CTRL+V, or CTRL+ALT+DEL with this keyboard. It will only respond to the first keystroke and ignore the rest as long as the first is still held down.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


ok planning to buy another mechanical keyboard.
for gaming and typing.
more on gaming

Majestouch Linear Force NKRO

Majestouch Tactile Touch NKRO

Majestouch Tactile Touch

Steelseries 7g

or should i go with Deck Keyboard? 
i don't like Deck keyboard because the way they print on the keycaps.. doesn't feel nice.. or look nice...

any suggestion?










Deck has a 105/82 set of Blank Keycaps. you can buy them at Performance-PCS.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lawcheehung*


Looking for an adapter to plug my old PS/2 IBM Model M, I've read about problems with keys not registering when using certain adapters or roll over n? Could someone inform me what type of adapter I should be using? (Ps/2 to usb). Been looking online at adapters and here's what I've come up with:

http://www.canadacomputers.com/produ...isqm9qshbgrhf4

http://www.canadacomputers.com/produ...isqm9qshbgrhf4

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...b1470a345den02

edit: I also heard things like this can happen


see here.


----------



## W4LNUT5

I want me some blank keycaps that make use of being illuminated!!!!!! Zomg









And they're sooo cheap. $25 for a full set is nothing

I wanna know what it looks like with blue illumination coming from them


----------



## Maytan

^I do too, now that I'm curious.


----------



## lmnop

they used to make Deck 21 Keypads to compliment the Deck 82.

pictures are hard to come by but here is the layout.










Quote:

Overall dimensions: 3.7" x 6" x 1.5"
Weight: 0.75 pounds

*The keyboard functions similar to the numeric keypad on any other keyboard; the most noticeable difference is backlighting. The keyboard has 8 levels of brightness: "0" through "7" with "0" being off and "7" being full brightness. Their brightness level is changed by first holding down the "Fn" key down (it's located in the upper right-hand corner of the keypad), then press either "0" for "off", or "1" - "7" for the "on" brightness levels.*

*There is an additional "pulsing" backlighting mode that cycles the backlighting from "0" to "7" repetitively. This mode is entered by an "Fn" +"8" keystroke combination. It is exited by pressing any key; no data is sent to the computer when this key is pressed. The backlighting level returns to a pre-pulse mode level.*

No information will be sent to the computer while the "Fn" key is held down and the "0" or "1" - "8" keys are pressed. In other words, the keyboard doesn't tell the PC these keys are being pressed. It also doesn't matter which key you release first. However, any other key press will be reported to the PC regardless of the state of the "Fn" key.

*The keypad includes three multi-media keys for volume control of the computer.*

*This keypad is a USB hub with a single downstream port on its backside. Although the keypad is powered by the USB bus through the data cord, it tells the computer that it is self-powered so that the downstream port can provide more than 100mA to power devices like the Deck 82 key keyboard.* Therefore, only 500mA maximum can be drawn from the keypads hardwired data cord for the keypad and whatever is connected to the downstream port. You may wish to shorten your Deck 82 key data cord when connecting it to the keypad via the USB port. To do so, remove the bottom cover from your Deck 82 key using a Phillips head screwdriver and coil a portion of the data cord to remain inside. Then reinstall the bottom cover. Finally, if a Deck 82 key keyboard is connected to the downstream port, the brightness level must be set on each unit independently. They do not communicate their brightness levels to each other due to the nature of the USB bus.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Are Deck's keycaps Cherry style or Costar style? Especially in regards to how the spacebar, enter, and other large keys are mounted/stabilized.


----------



## drjoey1500

Lot of 5 mislabeled g80-11900lumeu on ebay $56 shipped right now. Cherry black switches I think. About a day left.


----------



## lmnop

I think Deck uses Cherry stabilizers. you will have to ask Walnut or Crazy9000.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Are Deck's keycaps Cherry style or Costar style? Especially in regards to how the spacebar, enter, and other large keys are mounted/stabilized.


plz elaborate on "cherry vs costar style" and I'll tell you


----------



## lmnop

interesting it looks like they use their own.

Cherry Stabilizer









Costar Stabilizer


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Hm, so you might have difficulty swapping Deck keycaps onto Cherry or Filco/Das boards. It might be possible still, but we'd also have to see if the spacebar switch is centered or offset.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Hm, so you might have difficulty swapping Deck keycaps onto Cherry or Filco/Das boards. It might be possible still, but we'd also have to see if the spacebar switch is centered or offset.


why would someone want to put Deck Keycaps on to a Filco or Das?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I'm just speculating. I wonder if you could mod LEDs onto the switches in a Filco, and put Deck keycaps on it; as in, someone had a Deck, swapped the keycaps for the blank ones, now you buy their original ones or something.

Just thinking.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I'm just speculating. I wonder if you could mod LEDs onto the switches in a Filco, and put Deck keycaps on it; as in, someone had a Deck, swapped the keycaps for the blank ones, now you buy their original ones or something.

Just thinking.

I don't see why you couldn't.


----------



## Crazy9000

We will find out in 5 mins... I have a das and a deck


----------



## Crazy9000

The keycaps seem to work fine in either.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
The keycaps seem to work fine in either.

did you try stabilized keys?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Das review sample is here.

Still making up my mind, thinking about how I'll do the pics, writing the review etc, but one thing is for sure:

This thing looks _way_ sexier than a G80-8200


----------



## Marin

HHKB Pro 2 gets here tomorrow.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I'm just speculating. I wonder if you could mod LEDs onto the switches in a Filco, and put Deck keycaps on it; as in, someone had a Deck, swapped the keycaps for the blank ones, now you buy their original ones or something.

Just thinking.

I'll let you know if I drop the hammer on those blanks. Although I might decide to keep the original keys just in case (perhaps something happens, or I get sick of otaku in general)


----------



## james...

I'm typing this from my brand new Filco Magestouch Otaku with Cherry browns.

It's been maybe 5 minutes and I'm already in LOVE. Sure, the blank switches are throwing me for a loop but I can tell that will change soon. It's just a matter of memory.

I'm coming from a microsoft non-mechanical so it's quite different.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Das review sample is here.

Still making up my mind, thinking about how I'll do the pics, writing the review etc, but one thing is for sure:

This thing looks _way_ sexier than a G80-8200

It's nice but it also scratches up quickly :'(


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
It's nice but it also scratches up quickly :'(

trim your finger nails! mine doesn't have a single scratch on it.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

How does it scratch up? Fingerprints I can understand, but where does it get scratches?


----------



## lmnop

well i'm assuming it has to do with finger nails but I treat my Das Ultimate better than my boyfriend so lol


----------



## thisispatrick

I got some dust on it and as I was brushing it off I kind of scratched it here and there


----------



## lmnop

this is a Novus Kit.

bottle #1 is a Cleaner and Polisher, bottle #2 is a Scratch Remover and bottle #3 is a Heavy Scratch Remover. it's used on Plastics, Fiber Glass, Acrylic, etc.

you can buy it in a pack or each bottle individually at Amazon.


----------



## thisispatrick

Yup I remember asking and you recommended that to me before. I have yet to buy it since I'm a bit lazy and to be honest the scratches barely bother me. I'm too distracted by the comfort of typing


----------



## lmnop

you should treat it good and take care of it. the Novus 2oz kit only cost $9.04


----------



## thisispatrick

Lol the first week I got it I protected it like a newborn. Now I'm still dusting it off here and there but mehh







When I do order it though I'll put up shots so others can see how well/not well it works.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Lol the first week I got it I protected it like a newborn. Now I'm still dusting it off here and there but mehh







When I do order it though I'll put up shots so others can see how well/not well it works.


ripster already has.










did your old Keyboard get dusty? maybe it's your environment.


----------



## thisispatrick

Oh sweet! Yeah it is my environment. I have carpet which gives off like gallons of dust a day.


----------



## lmnop

a real Mother hen would protect her own by investing in a clean room


----------



## thisispatrick

Would you like to invest in one with me? Haha


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


well i'm assuming it has to do with finger nails but I treat my Das Ultimate better than my boyfriend so lol


Kinky, I'm not into the whole scratching thing though.


----------



## Marin

My Filco gets scratch marks on the sides of the keycaps. Luckily, they can easily be wiped off with a cloth.


----------



## lmnop

Filco is not taking me down <holds up a crucifix>


----------



## ch_123

I don't see what's so bad about the Filcos. For one, they don't look anywhere near as tacky as the Das or Deck...


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


I don't see what's so bad about the Filcos. For one, they don't look anywhere near as tacky as the Das or Deck...


I like the Deck because the quality is above average. I don't really care what colour or finish a keyboard has.

I encourage people to choose the Das over the Filco because I think it's a better deal. the keycaps are laser etched, optional USB 2.0 Hub, longer cable, 30 day return and it's cheaper. to quote you the Filco isn't elite anymore.


----------



## Marin

But theres no tenkeyless model, which some people prefer. Like me.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


But theres no tenkeyless model, which some people prefer. Like me.


true and I like the TenKeyLess model. it's been a while since a member here has bought a Filco Majestouch TenKeyLess, people don't seem to want to give up the number pad.

one problem mechanical keyboards share in common is price it doesn't matter if you are rich or poor you still have to justify spending a large amount of money on a peripheral so I think it's great that you can buy a mechanical keyboard at a lower price without having to sacrifice quality


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Students apparently get a 32% discount on the Das Professional S, bringing it down to $88.


----------



## lmnop

if that is true I rest my case lol


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Students apparently get a 32% discount on the Das Professional S, bringing it down to $88.

How?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Students apparently get a 32% discount on the Das Professional S, bringing it down to $88.

How do I get this?


----------



## lmnop

lol


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Students apparently get a 32% discount on the Das Professional S, bringing it down to $88.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kamakazi* 
How?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
How do I get this?

Yeah how do I get this deal?


----------



## Dark Torcher

i just got my filco majestouch otaku 104 key tactile click (the one with the cherry blue) and I love it, click click click, but who knows I might find another keyboard I could like even more

I was considering the Das Ultimate but I didnt like the glossy finish


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Email Das's support about their "educational discount". It's on their website, but you have to email them to get the promo code.


----------



## PhaedraCorruption

Does anyone know of a place that will let me test out the Das here in vancouver?


----------



## gordesky1

got in my abs m1 a day ago and i already loving the feel and sound of it and love the very solid feel









and typing faster with it also so now there's no way im going back too membrane rubber dome keyboards









and now when i type on my laptop and netbook it feels well... like crap lol

by the way i tried a ps/2 adapter on it and it just blinks does it not work with one?

why i wanted too try one is too see if i could push more keys at the same time.

even tho the way it does it now which is around 4 too 5 keys on the main keys used for gaming im fine with sense i haven't had too push more than 4 keys anyways lol

but ya this was the best 40$ i ever spent on a keyboard in my life.. lol pretty much always went for flashy keyboards with back lit and stuff which is nice but the feel and solidness comes first for now on









i am planing on getting the deck black lit keyboard later on tho. pretty much depends if i need it sense i really like this keyboard abs m1.

it pretty much made me order this the same day for my laptops.. lol

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823204015

i know its not a mechanical at all or feel like one but i herd it was one of the best membrane/rubberdome keyboards and figure i give it a try sense the price is really cheep i got it for 19$ a day ago now its 25$ lucky i order it that day lol.

than maybe later on i get one of these Majestouch Tenkeyless Tactile Click love how small it is


----------



## Crazy9000

Make sure it's not a ps/2 adapter for a mouse, as they only work on mice.

Yeah that i-rocks is decent for a rubber dome. It's backlit and everything, it costs what those fancy boards really should cost, while being similar if not better quality.


----------



## gordesky1

hmm figures all the ps/2 adapters i have shows a mouse icon on them... lol

even tho i did a Google search just now for the abs m1 with ps/2 adapter and pretty much everyone says the abs m1 wont work with ps/2 adapter something with board issues or something with it?

if that's true its not a biggie sense it works great the way it is







but just was wondering

and ya that i-rocks keyboard is problee better than my now siting collecting dust saitek cyborg keyboard... which cost me 80$ couple months ago..


----------



## Crazy9000

Yeah it looks like the m1 doesn't have a ps/2 controller on it, so won't work with a ps/2 adapter. Oh well, I don't think it has NKRO or anything that would need ps/2 anyways.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Yeah it looks like the m1 doesn't have a ps/2 controller on it, so won't work with a ps/2 adapter. Oh well, I don't think it has NKRO or anything that would need ps/2 anyways.

You're right: the ABS M1 doesn't have NKRO. Err that is, it wouldn't if it were connected via PS/2.


----------



## james...

OMG OMG OMG

I've never felt so bad and good about spending $120 on a keyboard.

Bad because well...I spent $120 on a keyboard, and when I'm already broke. LOL

But good because well...THIS THING IS AWESOME.

The glorious clicking is perfect. I don't regret getting cherry browns one bit. And the blacked out keys are uber cool. Still getting used to them though.


----------



## reaper~

Quote:



Originally Posted by *james...*


And the blacked out keys are uber cool. Still getting used to them though.


Took me like a week to get used to them blank keys. Still glance down occasionally. Old habits die hard, I suppose.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Email Das's support about their "educational discount". It's on their website, but you have to email them to get the promo code.


http://www.daskeyboard.com/education-discount-program/


----------



## Crazy9000

From the sound of that webpage, it's not a student discount, but a discount for someone buying the keyboards for say a typing program at school.

Couldn't hurt to try though.


----------



## lmnop

yeah it looks like it might be for bulk orders.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


yeah it looks like it might be for bulk orders.


Yeah. "In order to help educational institutions..." is pretty clearly not targeted at individual students, lol. I would guess they're thinking of 10+ keyboards for a classroom.

Who knows, the "poor starving student who will get carpel tunnel syndrome without a Das and won't be able to feed their dying mother chicken soup" excuse may win their hearts and get the discount.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *james...*


OMG OMG OMG

I've never felt so bad and good about spending $120 on a keyboard.

Bad because well...I spent $120 on a keyboard, and when I'm already broke. LOL

But good because well...THIS THING IS AWESOME.

The glorious clicking is perfect. I don't regret getting cherry browns one bit. And the blacked out keys are uber cool. Still getting used to them though.


Well, don't tell others who aren't initiated that it's clicking. The only Cherry MX switches that click are the Blues. The sound you're hearing is a "clacking".









But of course, I know exactly what you're going through!!


----------



## barrysgoods

What do you guys think the best switch is for playing RTS games like Starcraft 2?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barrysgoods* 
What do you guys think the best switch is for playing RTS games like Starcraft 2?

I think you could get away with any switch type. You rarely have to double-tap any keys.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I think you could get away with any switch type. You rarely have to double-tap any keys.


I actually double tap quite often playing SC and SC2.

Here's some footage of Slayers_Boxer's KB view:


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
I actually double tap quite often playing SC and SC2.

Here's some footage of Slayers_Boxer's KB view:






I double tap in SC as well, but not in rapid succession. It's more like a tap-tap than taptap if you know what I mean. I can't think of anything you'd double tap that fast for. You'd never need to hit the same hotkey twice in succession. There'll always be an action in between...


----------



## TFL Replica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barrysgoods* 
What do you guys think the best switch is for playing RTS games like Starcraft 2?

Cheap generic membrane keyboards and replacing them when they wear out. That's what the pros do. They also like to get 2 keyboards of different colors and replace frequently used keys.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TFL Replica* 
Cheap generic membrane keyboards and replacing them when they wear out. That's what the pros do. They also like to get 2 keyboards of different colors and replace frequently used keys.

The "pros" also use other crap quality headsets, mice, etc. Just because their sponsor gives them the stuff doesn't mean that is what's best to use.

That being said I agree with the others. There's really no best or must have switch for SC unless you double tap, then you likely wouldn't want MX blues.


----------



## TFL Replica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ljason8eg* 
The "pros" also use other crap quality headsets, mice, etc. Just because their sponsor gives them the stuff doesn't mean that is what's best to use.

What has sponsorship got to do with this?


----------



## Marin

I'm lost.


----------



## lmnop

I have seen alot of Asians and Europeans use the Raptor K1, Custom Cherry and steelseries 7g in pro competition.









this is the Custom Cherry it's a G80-1863HUMUS-2 wNv special edition. wNv is a Chinese Counter-Strike clan. it has double shot keycaps, Cherry MX Brown switches, full rollover and 2 USB ports.


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I have seen alot of Asians and Europeans use the Raptor K1, Custom Cherry and steelseries 7g in pro competition.









this is the Custom Cherry it's a G80-1863HUMUS-2 wNv special edition. wNv is a Chinese Counter-Strike clan. it has double shot keycaps, Cherry MX Brown switches, full rollover and 2 USB ports.

Dang, that looks nice, do u have a link where you can buy those?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *barrysgoods*


Dang, that looks nice, do u have a link where you can buy those?


they are sold in Asia and not cheap. it would cost additional $50 just to have it shipped to North America.


----------



## lmnop

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=3623785189

1199 yuan in usd = $176.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


they are sold in Asia and not cheap. it would cost additional $50 just to have it shipped to North America.


Considering the seeming elusiveness, I almost feel like considering it.


----------



## PhaedraCorruption

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PhaedraCorruption*


Does anyone know of a place that will let me test out the Das here in vancouver?


I quote myself with hopes that someone will kindly answer


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Considering the seeming elusiveness, I almost feel like considering it.


For $236 I'd buy something with Topre switches instead.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PhaedraCorruption*


I quote myself with hopes that someone will kindly answer










there are online retailers in British Columbia that sell the Das Model S but no stores. sometimes people are not prepared for the noise other than that I haven't met anybody that didn't like a mechanical keyboard.

you can buy the Das Model S Ultimate for $104 CAD and Das Model S Professional Silent for $121 CAD at BestDirect but they are back order. DirectCanada has them even cheaper but they are listed as not available I think BestDirect and DirectCanada are owned by the same company.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
there are online retailers in British Columbia that sell the Das Model S but no stores. sometimes people are not prepared for the noise other than that I haven't met anybody that didn't like a mechanical keyboard.

you can buy the Das Model S Ultimate for $104 CAD and Das Model S Professional Silent for $121 CAD at BestDirect but they are back order. DirectCanada has them even cheaper but they are listed as not available I think BestDirect and DirectCanada are owned by the same company.

How about this guy below. He didn't like his too much









Quote:


Originally Posted by *technodanvan* 
Haven't decided if I'm keeping it yet. It's nice in some ways, but it's also not nice in others. If I try a mechanical after this it would need to be a linear variant...*but honestly I doubt it's worth the money* as a wireless keyboard seems a more beneficial/appropriate peripheral in a home office setting.

But seriously, you'll like any mechanical we hand you once you've had some time to actually use it. Then compare it against a rubber switch and tell me you'd go back. lol


----------



## PhaedraCorruption

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


there are online retailers in British Columbia that sell the Das Model S but no stores. sometimes people are not prepared for the noise other than that I haven't met anybody that didn't like a mechanical keyboard.

you can buy the Das Model S Ultimate for $104 CAD and Das Model S Professional Silent for $121 CAD at BestDirect but they are back order. DirectCanada has them even cheaper but they are listed as not available I think BestDirect and DirectCanada are owned by the same company.


Oh I'm sure I will love it, but I'm just wishing for a test run to know how much. $130 is quite a bit to be spending on a mere keyboard. I'm haveing a tough time deciding between a keyboard or an SSD.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PhaedraCorruption*


Oh I'm sure I will love it, but I'm just wishing for a test run to know how much. $130 is quite a bit to be spending on a mere keyboard. I'm haveing a tough time deciding between a keyboard or an SSD.


I'd say as an SSD owner (for my laptop) get one. They are VERY quick. And honestly worth it as the difference is noticeable.

Though I do love my Mech Keyboards.


----------



## PhaedraCorruption

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I'd say as an SSD owner (for my laptop) get one. They are VERY quick. And honestly worth it as the difference is noticeable.

Though I do love my Mech Keyboards.


I have asked tons of people and half of them say SSD, other half say keyboard. I think it would just really make a difference if I had the chance to try a mechanical keyboard before I make my decision.


----------



## SPARTAN-001

Ok, first off, I'm not just trolling, I've got an honest question. Having tried many different mechanical keyboards, each borrowed from friends for several days of normal use, I've decided that I don't like any mechanical keyboard, with any type of switch, enough to justify spending an obscene amount of money on. Mechanical keyboards offer no features over my G15v2, and what (minimal) features they have cannot make up for the disparity in price. My G15 has many features that I use every day, and it was only $60 after rebate. Compare that to these mechanical keyboards that have no media buttons, no macro buttons, no backlighting (ok, some of the $100+ keyboards have them...), sometimes no numpad... I find typing on my G15 extremely comfy, and while typing on some mechanical keyboards is kind of comfy, what am I supposed to find to justify the price? The quality? Please, my cheapo rubber dome keyboards have lasted for years with no degradation. My G15 has lasted through plenty of abuse. The features? What features, clickyness? If mechanical keyboards had the same features as my G15, at a sub $100 price point, I'd consider it, but... Why should I bother with a more expensive, less useful keyboard? Sorry if this is a bit harsh, but I don't see anything to justify the obscene price tag on these things.


----------



## Marin

My G15 feels like mushy goop when I type on it, my mechanicals don't.


----------



## SPARTAN-001

Well, that's just an opinion. I happen to like the soft feel.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Which ones have you used? There are crappy mechanical keyboards out there. If you've used a G81, then that would explain it.


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SPARTAN-001*


Ok, first off, I'm not just trolling, I've got an honest question. Having tried many different mechanical keyboards, each borrowed from friends for several days of normal use, I've decided that I don't like any mechanical keyboard, with any type of switch, enough to justify spending an obscene amount of money on. Mechanical keyboards offer no features over my G15v2, and what (minimal) features they have cannot make up for the disparity in price. My G15 has many features that I use every day, and it was only $60 after rebate. Compare that to these mechanical keyboards that have no media buttons, no macro buttons, no backlighting (ok, some of the $100+ keyboards have them...), sometimes no numpad... I find typing on my G15 extremely comfy, and while typing on some mechanical keyboards is kind of comfy, what am I supposed to find to justify the price? The quality? Please, my cheapo rubber dome keyboards have lasted for years with no degradation. My G15 has lasted through plenty of abuse. The features? What features, clickyness? If mechanical keyboards had the same features as my G15, at a sub $100 price point, I'd consider it, but... Why should I bother with a more expensive, less useful keyboard? Sorry if this is a bit harsh, but I don't see anything to justify the obscene price tag on these things.


If you use all the special features and macros and all that then your g15 is a great choice, but a mechanical keyboard will outlive that keyboard by a long shot and is a muc higher quality product, so you might spend $120 now, but its going to last at least twice as long as the g15.

"The poor man always pays twice."


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Also self-quoting for an answer







:
Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ck-boards.html

I'm gonna have to ask what the OP is asking in this thread... because the 7G is cheaper in some places and has the same switches but a USB hub + audio pass-through and a BIG wrist rest. Which one would really be better? I ask because I underestimated the noise profile on MX Blacks and now have a desire for them.


----------



## SPARTAN-001

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Which ones have you used? There are crappy mechanical keyboards out there. If you've used a G81, then that would explain it.


I've used the ABS M1, the Das Keyboard professional, the IBM Model M, and a couple others that I don't remember. Even with the high end ones, what am I supposed to find feature-wise to replace my G15 features. I use macro buttons, the LCD, and the backlighting constantly, I can't get a mechanical keyboard that does all that.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Also self-quoting for an answer







:


Do you really want the features?

Audio-pass through will automatically downgrade your experience. SO that's nill for me.

I've got 2 USB 2.0 ports on the front of my case. I've nto really needed more as the rest of my USB devices are plugged into the back.

Wristrest is not my style; I like the soft gell ones

I hate the key-repositioning (aka they moved the \\| key & made the enter key bigger.)

I'd re-choose the Filco most of the time; though I'd probably get a Das for the price. If you want the USB hub.

Personally; I am deciding on a Deck Legend as I want the back-lighting. But looking back; even though the Filco's have a high price. I don't regret purchasing one. They are very nice boards. Even though others have more features.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Do you really want the features?

Audio-pass through will automatically downgrade your experience. SO that's nill for me.

I've got 2 USB 2.0 ports on the front of my case. I've nto really needed more as the rest of my USB devices are plugged into the back.


The features are more of a bonus than anything, I likely won't use them but it would be nice.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Wristrest is not my style; I like the soft gell ones

I hate the key-repositioning (aka they moved the \\| key & made the enter key bigger.)


I don't like gel wrist rests, honestly, hard ones are so much better; and I don't mind the key repositioning since I've got long fingers and have used keyboards with such a layout in the past so I'm still used to that layout.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Personally; I am deciding on a Deck Legend as I want the back-lighting. But looking back; even though the Filco's have a high price. I don't regret purchasing one. They are very nice boards. Even though others have more features.


Yeah, that's why I'm avoiding Decks until I get decent income, the price. Otherwise I'd get a Legend 105 Frost in a heartbeat.


----------



## Tator Tot

I sold most of my boards for at cost; actually made a profit on my cherry because of ebay and snaggin it for a low price.

Pretty much the only reason I'm picking up a Deck. Though, I'm going for the MX-Clear model (Frost.)

Which every you pick, I'm sure you'll be pleasently surprised. I just wish they had cheaper boards out using switches like Fake White or Black alps without NKRO just for people to try.
If we had a larger selection of mechanical keyboards out like that; it'd be easier to suggest them to some people. Because one store would be bound to have them on the floor as a demo unit.

Also; typing on my old Gateway board (ruber dome + slider) is really annoying.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *PhaedraCorruption*


I have asked tons of people and half of them say SSD, other half say keyboard. I think it would just really make a difference if I had the chance to try a mechanical keyboard before I make my decision.


Back when I was shopping for a new mechanical keyboard, I was in the same boat: I wanted to be able to try all of the switch types before buying any keyboard. Manyak even made a thread asking if there would be any interest in some kind of trial board (like the size of a keypad) where it would have several different switches complete with keys so that you could purchase it for perhaps $15 or $20 or something and then spend time comparing all of the switches. I mean, when I saw that, I thought that I knew my prayers had been answered and all I was going to have to do at that point was wait.

But then I started watching dozens of YouTube videos of people demonstrating their mechanical keyboards; they were either just typing, demonstrating, or reviewing their keyboard. I also kept reading everything I could about the different switch types. I was basically doing everything I could to see which switch type I was gravitating towards.

After watching several YouTube videos and after reading all of the information that I had read (and after asking a few questions in this Guide), I began to notice that I was falling in love with the Cherry MX Blues. Once I noticed that, I began to focus a bit more on the Cherry MX Blues just to make sure it really was the switch I wanted.

And then I finally purchased the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO, and I am 110% satisfied! So, I highly recommend doing the same thing: watch a bunch of YouTube videos and study them; watch them closely and listen carefully. Pay attention to which switch type you believe you would like the most, and then find a good keyboard with that switch type. I think I can personally promise you that if you do this, then you will find yourself with a keyboard that you really love and then you'll be able to say the following right along with me: with all of these resources, there's really no need to try before you buy.

So don't give up!


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Pretty much the only reason I'm picking up a Deck. Though, I'm going for the MX-Clear model (Frost.)

The Fire and ToXic are MX Black only, and the Ice can have either Clear or Black; the Frost is Clear only. Personally I could go either way with those switches but I like neutral lighting best so the Frost is my game.


----------



## ch_123

I never got Backlighting... I can understand that maybe for typing keyboards for people who can't type, but gaming involves far less muscle memory than typing does because it uses the same keys which are clustered to the left of the keyboard (in most cases anyway)

Unless you like the whole "OMG BLUE LIGHTS EVERYWHERE" look, but personally that doesn't do much for me.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SPARTAN-001* 
Ok, first off, I'm not just trolling, I've got an honest question. Having tried many different mechanical keyboards, each borrowed from friends for several days of normal use, I've decided that I don't like any mechanical keyboard, with any type of switch, enough to justify spending an obscene amount of money on. Mechanical keyboards offer no features over my G15v2, and what (minimal) features they have cannot make up for the disparity in price. My G15 has many features that I use every day, and it was only $60 after rebate. Compare that to these mechanical keyboards that have no media buttons, no macro buttons, no backlighting (ok, some of the $100+ keyboards have them...), sometimes no numpad... I find typing on my G15 extremely comfy, and while typing on some mechanical keyboards is kind of comfy, what am I supposed to find to justify the price? The quality? Please, my cheapo rubber dome keyboards have lasted for years with no degradation. My G15 has lasted through plenty of abuse. The features? What features, clickyness? If mechanical keyboards had the same features as my G15, at a sub $100 price point, I'd consider it, but... Why should I bother with a more expensive, less useful keyboard? Sorry if this is a bit harsh, but I don't see anything to justify the obscene price tag on these things.

when rubber domes start to age they become softer, slower and less tactile. anybody typing on a rubber dome keyboard can put this to the test by pressing a key they use everyday and pressing a key they rarely if ever use at the same time. rubber dome keyboards are constructed with poor plastics, electronics and printing.










the Gigabyte GK-K8000 was the first mechanical keyboard made by a large company in a long time and it had alot of features.

Cherry MX Black Linear switches
Dedicated Macro Keys
Dedicated Multimedia Keys
Dedicated Windows Key Lock (Disable the L-Windows Key)
Integrated C-Media 6300 soundcard
4MB on-board memory
Upgradeable Firmware
Carrying Case
USB Hub
Multimedia Ports
Extra Keycaps
Keycap Puller
Attachable Wrist Rest
Detachable Braided USB Cable
it was only $119 USD.

mechanical keyboards are getting more and more popular so there is a good chance there will be another mechanical keyboard in the future that is rich with features so don't give up.

people on this forum have admitted they only like the Logitech G15 Rev 2 because the LCD allows them to monitor Temps but there are Fan Controllers for that.


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Well, a whole column (F3,3,e,d,c) on my free dell keyboard stopped working, so I decided to get a Filco with cherry browns







. I always thought you guys were bs'ing me when you said they would wear out XD. Guess I was proven wrong.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi*


Well, a whole column (F3,3,e,d,c) on my free dell keyboard stopped working, so I decided to get a Filco with cherry browns







. I always thought you guys were bs'ing me when you said they would wear out XD. Guess I was proven wrong.


Sounds like a trace on the membrane broke. The copper traces on modern membranes are so thin, they're sometimes thinner than ink printed on them.


----------



## ljason8eg

I emailed Das Keyboard about an educational discount for a student interested in a single board. Here's the reply:

Quote:

| Hello!
|
| Thank you for your interest in Das Keyboard!
|
| We offer an educational discount of 24%. This takes into consideration the discount plus $10 for ground shipping. Our system does not allow us to manually adjust shipping costs, so we have to factor it into the discount.
|
| To receive the coupon code for the discount, please provide a copy of your student or faculty ID. You can attach it to this ticket or fax it to 512-233-5335.
|
| If you have any further questions please let me know!
|
| Kind regards,
|
| Erin


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ljason8eg* 
I emailed Das Keyboard about an educational discount for a student interested in a single board. Here's the reply:

Cool. Definitely a good choice for a student then.


----------



## barrysgoods

Why does the happy hacker keyboard pro 2 cost so much more than, say, a filco tenkeyless?

Also ive been super indecisive all week and its finally time for me to purchase my new mechanical keyboard. So, please for the last time suggest what you think would be best for me.

A gamer who plays starcraft 2 and fps games like counter strike and modern warfare 2.

I was set on the deck, but led lit keys bother me while playing.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *barrysgoods*


Why does the happy hacker keyboard pro 2 cost so much more than, say, a filco tenkeyless?

Also ive been super indecisive all week and its finally time for me to purchase my new mechanical keyboard. So, please for the last time suggest what you think would be best for me.

A gamer who plays starcraft 2 and fps games like counter strike and modern warfare 2.

I was set on the deck, but led lit keys bother me while playing.


The HHKB Pro 2 uses Topre capacitive switches, which are rather pricey to set up. The custom layout doesn't help things either, since they have to get custom-built PCB's for their boards. The switches are supposed to feel excellent though, I hope to find out for myself one day.

As for the Deck, you do know you can just turn the LED's off, right? Fn + 0 will turn them off if they bother you. Then again, if you never use them you might want to consider a Filco (assuming you're looking for a tenkeyless board). I'd personally go for Blues given the types of games you play, but if the click bothers you the Browns aren't a bad choice either.


----------



## Marin

The Topre capacitive switches are definitely excellent but for me it's not like the switch from rubber dome to mechanical. When I got my mechanical KB I was done with rubber dome keyboards at that point. When I got my HHKB I loved it right away, but that still didn't stop me from loving my Cherry blues.


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn*


The HHKB Pro 2 uses Topre capacitive switches, which are rather pricey to set up. The custom layout doesn't help things either, since they have to get custom-built PCB's for their boards. The switches are supposed to feel excellent though, I hope to find out for myself one day.

As for the Deck, you do know you can just turn the LED's off, right? Fn + 0 will turn them off if they bother you. Then again, if you never use them you might want to consider a Filco (assuming you're looking for a tenkeyless board). I'd personally go for Blues given the types of games you play, but if the click bothers you the Browns aren't a bad choice either.


I always have headphones on so noise doesnt bother me, but if i feel anything while pressing the key down that might be annoying while gaming.


----------



## Marin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *barrysgoods*


I always have headphones on so noise doesnt bother me, but if i feel anything while pressing the key down that might be annoying while gaming.


Then you'll probably like the Cherry Blacks the most. (if you're referring to tactile bump)


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *barrysgoods*


Why does the happy hacker keyboard pro 2 cost so much more than, say, a filco tenkeyless?

Also ive been super indecisive all week and its finally time for me to purchase my new mechanical keyboard. So, please for the last time suggest what you think would be best for me.

A gamer who plays starcraft 2 and fps games like counter strike and modern warfare 2.

I was set on the deck, but led lit keys bother me while playing.


I'd suggest getting the fire one. The red is very toned down compared to the other colors, you can't even see it in daylight really. If you have the red on a low setting, it will not shine in your eyes, even in the dark. It will be just bright enough to highlight the keys, but that's it.

My brother has the toxic, which is like a searchlight in comparison, lol.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ljason8eg* 
I emailed Das Keyboard about an educational discount for a student interested in a single board. Here's the reply:

24% is great. $99.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SPARTAN-001* 
Ok, first off, *I'm not just trolling*, I've got an honest question. Having tried many different mechanical keyboards, each borrowed from friends for several days of normal use, *I've decided that I don't like any mechanical keyboard, with any type of switch, enough to justify spending an obscene amount of money on.* *Mechanical keyboards offer no features over my G15v2*, and what (minimal) features they have cannot make up for the disparity in price. My G15 has many features that I use every day, and it was only $60 after rebate. Compare that to these mechanical keyboards that have no media buttons, no macro buttons, no backlighting (ok, some of the $100+ keyboards have them...), sometimes no numpad... I find typing on my G15 extremely comfy, and while typing on some mechanical keyboards is kind of comfy, what am I supposed to find to justify the price? *The quality? Please, my cheapo rubber dome keyboards have lasted for years with no degradation.* My G15 has lasted through plenty of abuse. The features? What features, clickyness? If mechanical keyboards had the same features as my G15, at a sub $100 price point, I'd consider it, but... *Why should I bother with a more expensive, less useful keyboard?* *Sorry if this is a bit harsh, but I don't see anything to justify the obscene price tag on these things.*

. . .

I see you trollin, I'm hatin. Highlighted sections are BS. Ignorant much?

If you seriously wanna continue using that piece of **** keyboard, be my guest. Won't hurt my feelings any.


----------



## Crazy9000

He has some sort of valid points. Rubber domes wearing out really isn't an issue for most people. We have some 10 year old rubber domes at work and they work perfectly fine still.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
He has some sort of valid points. Rubber domes wearing out really isn't an issue for most people. We have some 10 year old rubber domes at work and they work perfectly fine still.

Seriously. I'm using a 12-year-old NEC dome 'board and it functions perfectly.


----------



## TFL Replica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
He has some sort of valid points. Rubber domes wearing out really isn't an issue for most people. We have some 10 year old rubber domes at work and they work perfectly fine still.

Not all rubber domes are created equal.









There are quite a number of really durable, good ones but unfortunately I doubt there will ever be the interest for a thread dedicated to them.


----------



## lmnop

it doesn't matter if they are old or new they are still going to wear because rubber and silicone can only take so much. my boyfriend bought me a Microsoft Comfort Curve over a year ago because my Das was driving him mad. I spend 25% a week typing on my Microsoft Comfort Curve and the rubber domes are already worn. about 2 months ago I started using my Microsoft Comfort Curve to play Team Fortress 2 but it wasn't long before I started using my Das again. I apply too much force to W, S, A, D because the rubber domes underneath are too soft but the worst is the Spacebar.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barrysgoods* 
Why does the happy hacker keyboard pro 2 cost so much more than, say, a filco tenkeyless?

Also ive been super indecisive all week and its finally time for me to purchase my new mechanical keyboard. So, please for the last time suggest what you think would be best for me.

A gamer who plays starcraft 2 and fps games like counter strike and modern warfare 2.

I was set on the deck, but led lit keys bother me while playing.

Based on your post I quoted below, I recommend finding a keyboard that uses a switch type that is 100% linear, such as the Cherry MX Blacks. But *which* keyboard needs to be up to you; do some research, or use YouTube - you're the one who has to use the keyboard, so it has to be a keyboard you think you will like the most. But I am only saying this because you are demonstrating here that you would only like a 100% linear switch. Otherwise I'd still be saying that you have to figure out which switch type to go with. So yeah, this is a very personal choice.

Here's the quote I'm talking about:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barrysgoods* 
I always have headphones on so noise doesnt bother me, but if i feel anything while pressing the key down that might be annoying while gaming.

A linear switch doesn't have any tactile response at all: it's just a smooth, consistent travel from the beginning of the keystroke all the way to the bottom (in comparison to tactile switches). The only resistance you feel is from the spring inside.

Now, switches like the Cherry MX Blues and Browns have a "bump", meaning that there's a bit of resistance at the beginning of the keystroke which provides physical (or "tactile") feedback of the switch actuation (of the keystroke being sent to the computer). With a linear switch (again, like the Cherry MX Blacks), the only feedback is what you see on your monitor.


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

My filco majestouch with "browns" I ordered from elitekeyboards took two days to process despite the fact that I got 2nd day shipping. You would expect to have priority if you ordered fast shipping. I wanted it before I went on vacation, but it looks like it will be on my porch for 8 days if fedex decides I don't need a signature. I'm very glad i spent the 20 extra dollars and got 2nd day air









This keyboard better be worth the trouble, the long wait, and the price... Convince me this was a good purchase, please.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi* 







My filco majestouch with "browns" I ordered from elitekeyboards took two days to process despite the fact that I got 2nd day shipping. You would expect to have priority if you ordered fast shipping. I wanted it before I went on vacation, but it looks like it will be on my porch for 8 days if fedex decides I don't need a signature. I'm very glad i spent the 20 extra dollars and got 2nd day air









This keyboard better be worth the trouble, the long wait, and the price... Convince me this was a good purchase, please.

Unfortunately, the only way to get Rush processing is to request it (and it probably has to be requested through e-mail). Expedited shipping or not, it's still going to take 1-2 days to process!

Anyway, I used to have the G15 and the Lycosa, and without typing up another 7,000-word post about why I love my Tactile Click NKRO, I'll just say this: I guarantee you that you will love it and that you feel that the wait was worth it.


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Unfortunately, the only way to get Rush processing is to request it (and it probably has to be requested through e-mail). Expedited shipping or not, it's still going to take 1-2 days to process!

Anyway, I used to have the G15 and the Lycosa, and without typing up another 7,000-word post about why I love my Tactile Click NKRO, I'll just say this: I guarantee you that you will love it and that you feel that the wait was worth it.

Hmm, could i have a link to that 7000 word post







. I began typing on laptops and I currently have a logitech dinovio edge. I hope i can relearn typing so that i don't always bottom out. When will I actually use the tactile feel when I type? Is it like relearning how to type?


----------



## Marin

I loved typing on a mechanical keyboard so much that I got another one for my laptop.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi* 
Hmm, could i have a link to that 7000 word post







. I began typing on laptops and I currently have a logitech dinovio edge. I hope i can relearn typing so that i don't always bottom out. When will I actually use the tactile feel when I type? Is it like relearning how to type?

I think the answer to that is just that you use the tactile feel when you press any key. The tactile feel is almost somewhat similar to the tactile feel of really nice and really new rubber dome keyboards, except the actuation is about halfway down. Of course, this means that bottoming out is not necessary.







Of course there are many other benefits to mechanical keyboards, but you already ordered one so I won't go into my sales pitch. hehe

Anyway, the quality is dramatically superior, and so is the feel of any key press - whether it's just a single key press, or a bunch of them (like while typing). I mean, even if it took an entire month to get to you, it would still be worth the wait!!! Yeah, I love mechanical keyboards so much that I am willing to say that at the risk of what you (or anyone) might say back!









Ultimately though, it's not like relearning how to type. However, I recommend treating it as such to maximize your chances of perfecting a technique where you aren't bottoming out while typing! One technique I strongly recommend is hovering/floating your wrists while you type. And by this, I mean really hover them; this will give you significantly more freedom when typing which means you'll be more relaxed. Therefore, everything you type will be much easier - especially those words which seem to get messed up every time you type them!

Finally, all I want to say is this: when I went from the G15 and the Lycosa to the Majestouch, I found it to actually be *fun* to use my keyboard for the very first time! I mean, I've never considered using my keyboard to be fun at all. It was always just a means to an end, but now it's completely the opposite: I'm always looking for an excuse to use my keyboard - even if it means just pressing a neutral key like Ctrl, Esc, Num Lock, etc.! I don't do that a _lot_, but when it comes to actually typing, I really am always looking for an excuse to type!


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

I tried the hover technique and i am pressing down a lot softer now so it i guess i wil pick up the feel. The problem is, it is hard to know what it will feel like with only my scissor switches. the wait is going to suck







.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi* 
I tried the hover technique and i am pressing down a lot softer now so it i guess i wil pick up the feel. The problem is, it is hard to know what it will feel like with only my scissor switches. the wait is going to suck







.

I promise that once you have it, it will *quickly* feel like you didn't have to wait that long at all.

Try to think of the last time you waited an obscenely long time for something you really wanted, but then try to remember how it felt once you were done waiting.


----------



## SPARTAN-001

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


. . .

I see you trollin, I'm hatin. Highlighted sections are BS. Ignorant much?

If you seriously wanna continue using that piece of **** keyboard, be my guest. Won't hurt my feelings any.


I'm not trolling. I just feel that the benefits of having a mechanical keyboard are being overstated somewhat, and that any perceived benefits are outweighed by the fact that mechanical keyboards cost twice as much for fewer features. I don't have a problem with quality on my G15, it feels solidly constructed, it hasn't broken from lugging it around to LAN parties and being beaten on a little bit by my friends, the electronics do what they need to, and it's got useful features. Just sayin' that I don't think that mechanical keyboards are cost effective. I came across as kind of a troll because I was in a bad mood at the time, from some stuff that's been happening lately, sorry about being so... overzealous. I hope there's no hard feelings, I didn't mean to offend anyone, just stating my opinion.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SPARTAN-001*


I'm not trolling. I just feel that the benefits of having a mechanical keyboard are being overstated somewhat, and that any perceived benefits are outweighed by the fact that mechanical keyboards cost twice as much for fewer features. I don't have a problem with quality on my G15, it feels solidly constructed, it hasn't broken from lugging it around to LAN parties and being beaten on a little bit by my friends, the electronics do what they need to, and it's got useful features. Just sayin' that I don't think that mechanical keyboards are cost effective. I came across as kind of a troll because I was in a bad mood at the time, from some stuff that's been happening lately, sorry about being so... overzealous. I hope there's no hard feelings, I didn't mean to offend anyone, just stating my opinion.


What you're saying is like "I see no point in buying a Lamborghini because it doesn't have a GPS system, an ipod dock, or a fridge in the armrest".


----------



## TwoCables

I somewhat agree, Manyak.

I was going to say that form always follows function and that I consider all of those fancy features of the G15 to be the keyboard's form, but too many people think they rely on these features (I know I did).

So I think I'll be more careful and just say this: SPARTAN-001, it is my strong belief that you just didn't give mechanical keyboards an honest enough try. I mean, it's almost like you _wanted _to see them as a waste of money for a feature-less keyboard.


----------



## lmnop

he is saying he prefers ketchup and noodles over spaghetti.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


he is saying he prefers ketchup and noodles over spaghetti.


Ooo I like that.

Or pizza rolls over real, high-end pizza.


----------



## SPARTAN-001

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


What you're saying is like "I see no point in buying a Lamborghini because it doesn't have a GPS system, an ipod dock, or a fridge in the armrest".


Not quite. I have tried mechanical keyboards, and they just didn't seem to justify the expense to me. I use the features on my keyboard every day, and they're very helpful. I would not want to downgrade to a keyboard where I didn't have those features. The LCD i could do without, but macros, media buttons, and backlighting are a must. However, the main consideration is cost. If I could find a mechanical keyboard with macros and backlighting, as well as media buttons, I would consider paying a bit more than $60. But not anywhere near $100+ for a keyboard with anything less than just backlighting and media buttons. Whereas I would definitely buy a Lamborghini if I had the means, but I don't have anything fancy in my car anyways. Besides, if I had a Lamborghini, I'd probably have enough money to have that crap installed anyways.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


So I think I'll be more careful and just say this: SPARTAN-001, it is my strong belief that you just didn't give mechanical keyboards an honest enough try. I mean, it's almost like you wanted to see them as a waste of money for a feature-less keyboard.


I tried out mechanical keyboards BEFORE I purchased my G15, to see if I wanted to buy something of the sort, but the first thing I noticed was that none of them had features that I use on a daily basis (Only media buttons at the time, my old keyboard was one that I scrounged from the decaying hulk of a 2006 Emachine). I intentionally did not look at price tags before I asked my friends to borrow their fancy keyboards. This would not have been a problem, if not for the fact that, looking around, I could find plenty of "gaming keyboards" with more features and for far cheaper. I honestly tried to like the keyboards I used, but I really liked the feel and the features of the G15 that I tried out at the same time. The clicky mechanical switches are nice, and so are the smooth ones, but believe it or not, I actually like the mushy feel of the rubber domes on the G15. I'm not trying to justify my purchase to you, I honestly like the feel of typing on the G15 as much as typing on the Das Professional. I tried to like mechanical keyboards, because in a way I like how they're minimalist, but the bargain shopper in me couldn't spend twice as much for a less useful (in a way, after all, they're just keyboards at the end of the day) item.


----------



## TFL Replica

All these analogies just make you look (to outsiders) arrogant, fanatic and blind. We ALL need to learn to accept that different people will have different preferences.

Cast aside your ketchup and pizza rolls and remind yourself: Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SPARTAN-001* 
Not quite. I have tried mechanical keyboards, and they just didn't seem to justify the expense to me.

I know you did. I read it, but I just didn't respond earlier.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *F1ForFrags* 
I use the features on my keyboard every day, and they're very helpful.

As I said before, I had the G15 too and I felt the same way.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *F1ForFrags* 
I would not want to downgrade to a keyboard where I didn't have those features. The LCD i could do without, but macros, media buttons, and backlighting are a must. However, the main consideration is cost. If I could find a mechanical keyboard with macros and backlighting, as well as media buttons, I would consider paying a bit more than $60. But not anywhere near $100+ for a keyboard with anything less than just backlighting and media buttons. Whereas I would definitely buy a Lamborghini if I had the means, but I don't have anything fancy in my car anyways. Besides, if I had a Lamborghini, I'd probably have enough money to have that crap installed anyways.









Why does it have to have backlighting?

I had the G15 and the Lycosa, and I thought that I wasn't going to be able to handle a keyboard that didn't have any extra buttons and backlighting, but here I am using the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO and finding it to be a billion times superior to those two keyboards. You see, the Majestouch doesn't have any extra features, buttons, backlighting or anything; it doesn't even come with a driver or software. All you get is the keyboard. What a rip-off, right?

I can program almost any of the 104 keys to do whatever I want as long as I have the right software. Some of these programs include (but are not limited to):

KeyboardLink
SharpKeys
AutoHotKey (which is WAY more than just a keyboard customizer)
What's great about these programs is that no matter which one I use, I don't have to worry about the extra type of junk that gets installed with drivers like the G15's or the Lycosa's (and believe me, I am significantly happier without that GarbageWare doing things that I hate).

Plus, my keyboard should last me 20 years, easily. On top of that, it will never wear out (at least it will be barely noticeable, even after 20 years). You can't beat that with a rubber dome, or even come close.

Not only that, but if one of my keys stops working for some reason, then all I have to do is swap the switch out with one I don't use, like the switch under the Scroll Lock key.

Plus, I get the significantly superior typing and usage experience over rubber dome. The switch actuates halfway down, and it feels amazing. I've had my keyboard for almost 4 months, and I'm still "drooling" over it.

Additionally, if I want to replace certain keys (or all of them) to customize the appearance of my keyboard, then I can do that extremely easily. It's not so easy with a rubber dome board.

I think my favorite thing about mechanical keyboards is that in comparison to every rubber dome keyboard I have ever typed on, this thing actually feels like it enjoys working _with_ me, as opposed to working _against_ me. I push down, and the spring pushes back a little bit. It's awesome.

Another benefit of mechanical keyboards is that you get to choose from a myriad of switches! This means that you can get the absolute best keyboard for you instead of just getting a rubber dome board and dealing with it.

So like I said, I firmly believe that it's just because you are afraid to leave the G15 (or, feature-rich keyboards) and make the switch. You're afraid of the same thing I was: I was afraid of needing those features and not having them. But guess what: I still have all of the features I loved on both of the G15 and the Lycosa on this simple 104-key keyboad except for backlighting, and I'm not using any special driver.


----------



## kyle-reece

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SPARTAN-001* 
The LCD i could do without, but macros, media buttons, and backlighting are a must.D

macros can be assigned to keys on any keyboard
you can assign any key to be a media button
you're not supposed to look at keyboards when typing(or be using a computer in the dark as it damages your eyes)

as to extra keys for which to assign macros (be specific!) you can get them from terminal keyboards http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/122keyterkey.html
of course that won't work if you need the windows key and make use of it often...in which case my argument is dead there.

now what exactly does a mechnical keyboard lack compared to the g15? oh thats right a screen...find a single use for it that a monitor can't be used for(and that doesn't involve cheating in games[knowing how much ammo you have in cod4 while in hardcore mode is cheating...infact it falls under the definition of a hack program]).


----------



## SPARTAN-001

I'm not afraid of leaving my G15 behind. I like the typing on mechanical keyboards that I could justify dumping Logitech, but again: the only thing I don't like about mechanical keyboards is the price. At the $100+ price point, I would expect to see some keyboards with fancy lights, holographic projectors, pizza dispensers, etc. What do you get for $100? A keyboard. Period. That's what I don't want. I don't want to spend more money for fewer features. End of story. If they were only $10 more, I'd drop the G15 in a second, but $60 more? No thanks. I can't stress this enough. My main objection is the price.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SPARTAN-001* 
I'm not afraid of leaving my G15 behind. I like the typing on mechanical keyboards that I could justify dumping Logitech, but again: the only thing I don't like about mechanical keyboards is the price. At the $100+ price point, I would expect to see some keyboards with fancy lights, holographic projectors, pizza dispensers, etc. What do you get for $100? A keyboard. Period. That's what I don't want. I don't want to spend more money for fewer features. End of story. If they were only $10 more, I'd drop the G15 in a second, but $60 more? No thanks. I can't stress this enough. My main objection is the price.

Yeah, I had the same problem. But each key switch costs roughly between 50Â¢ to $1.00. Then there's the cost of plate mounting and the superior build quality of the keyboard (that's not all, but I am keeping it simple in order to keep this short). This all adds up to the final cost that you are used to seeing with the better mechanical keyboards.

So it's not just a high price for "just a keyboard".


----------



## SPARTAN-001

It may be higher quality, but until I have a steady source of income (I don't have a job), I can't afford to spend twice as much on a keyboard. I would've had to wait months to scrape up the $60 more to buy a decent mechanical keyboard. I wanted a higher quality keyboard than the one I had, the G15 was a better keyboard, and the price was right. I can understand why they're more expensive, but I can't spend that much. The fact that the G15 had nifty features was just icing on the cake. I suppose in the end I'd learn to live without nifty features, or emulate macro buttons and such, but I can't be bothered to pay $100+ for a keyboard without earth shattering features. Maybe sometime in the future, when I've got some cash to spare, I'll consider it, but I just don't see it happening.


----------



## kyle-reece

g15 - $90
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/122keyterkey.html - $10 more.

and i'd hardly consider the G15 to be a 'better' keyboard than whatever you had before, its pretty much just the same with a few extra keys bolted onto the side a few leds thrown in there and a low quality lcd bolted onto there to add $80 to the price, the quality is just the same if not worse (most likely worse if its the later revision)


----------



## Munkypoo7

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TFL Replica* 
All these analogies just make you look (to outsiders) arrogant, fanatic and blind. We ALL need to learn to accept that different people will have different preferences.

Cast aside your ketchup and pizza rolls and remind yourself: Different strokes for different folks.

^This.

You guys would really get more people on board if you didn't act as if you had the best keyboards in the land and that every Logitech and Razer keyboard is crap.

I own a Lycosa which I'm sure to 90% of you here, think it's a pile of junk, but as far as *I'm* concerned, I enjoy having relatively quiet keys, a media touch panel and good keyboard backlighting all at a nice price. And if anything goes wrong, the knowledge that Razer will have me covered. (Had an issue with my old Lycosa touch panel, they replaced it AND covered my shipping label costs)

If I didn't care for a media touch panel or soft-ish keys, I wouldn't hesitate to get a Deck, but everyone has different likes and dislikes, and quite frankly you guys seem to disregard that.

You all can keep your keyboards that make you happy, I'll keep what makes me happy and we can call it even, each side has pros and cons...


----------



## SPARTAN-001

^This
I totally agree with you, Munkypoo7.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kyle-reece* 
g15 - $90
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/122keyterkey.html - $10 more.

and i'd hardly consider the G15 to be a 'better' keyboard than whatever you had before, its pretty much just the same with a few extra keys bolted onto the side a few leds thrown in there and a low quality lcd bolted onto there to add $80 to the price, the quality is just the same if not worse (most likely worse if its the later revision)

I picked up mine on sale for $60. Yeah, so...If you can find a good mechanical keyboard for $60...I'm all ears.
Also, it's definitely a better keyboard than the one I had before. The keys don't fall off if you turn it upside down, and it's much more comfortable to type on.


----------



## kyle-reece

http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/en104bl.html $70, only $10 more than what you paid for the G15
http://www.buy.com/prod/ione-scorpiu...205713562.html $50 + $10 shipping, same price as your G15.


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Hey Manyak, have you ever thought about starting a "feature rich" keyboard guide to stop all this bickering in the mechanical keyboard guide? I'm sure people who want the _gamer_ keyboards would really appreciate it. Something that includes the G15, DeNovio Edge, and Razer products. It seems like a lot of people are hating on Mech keyboards all of the sudden, kind of like the time everyone hated on corsair PSUs for being popular and a little pricey.

Anyways, I contacted Elite keyboards and they said that they couldn't change my shipping (which is FedEx's fault







) and that they would tell FedEx to hold it for me until I got back from vacation. +1 to elitekeyboards and -1 to FedEx.


----------



## SPARTAN-001

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kyle-reece*


http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/en104bl.html $70, only $10 more than what you paid for the G15
http://www.buy.com/prod/ione-scorpiu...205713562.html $50 + $10 shipping, same price as your G15.


I wouldn't pay anything over $10 for the first one you posted, but if the second one you posted was good quality and felt nice, I might have considered it when I was shopping around. But I didn't try it, and I wouldn't buy a keyboard like that unless it was REALLY comfortable to type and game on. Without being able to try it, I wouldn't buy it over the G15. I'd have to try it to form an opinion.


----------



## reaper~

It's an acquired taste really. Either you like it or you don't like it.







I own a G15v2, a G19, various MS crappy keyboards and a few FILCOs and tbh, coming from a $200 G19 to a $120 FILCO, there was a huge difference for me when I type but for gaming, not so much (because I suck at it lol).


----------



## lmnop

iOne Scorpius M10BL
this has been on paper for a long time and it's going to be sold on the Taiwan market later this year.

















iOne XArmor U9 (Wireless)

























iOne XArmor U9BL


----------



## SPARTAN-001

Now THAT is what I'm talkin' about. Is that the same as the one Kyle-reece posted?


----------



## lmnop

I don't like them.

the font on the iOne Scorpius M10BL is actually worst than the Deck. I don't know why they chose Cherry MX Blue switches over Black but Otterclock should be happy since his dying wish is a Deck Legend with Cherry MX Blue switches. orange W, S, A, D? why not Red or Blue? why not arrows? they won't illuminate.

*a couple days ago a iOne service rep said the iOne Xarmor U9BL will be available in North America in Mid July and retail for $149.95 USD.*


----------



## SPARTAN-001

Sigh...WAY too much...I guess mechanical keyboards and I will just never work out.


----------



## Kamakazi

Oh dang, a wireless mechanical?

Any word on the cost of it?


----------



## Marin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SPARTAN-001*


Sigh...WAY too much...I guess mechanical keyboards and I will just never work out.


Why do you need backlighting?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


Oh dang, a wireless mechanical?

Any word on the cost of it?


$99 and is supposed to be launched in North America shortly after the release of the iOne Xarmor U9BL.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


$99 and is supposed to be launched in North America shortly after the release of the iOne Xarmor U9BL.


Interesting. May take the spot of the Das on my list...


----------



## SPARTAN-001

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


Why do you need backlighting?


I don't need it. It's helpful, but I have yet to see a mechanical keyboard at the sub $90 range that I like well enough to ditch my G15 for.


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


Why do you need backlighting?


this, although I may have an equation that most gamers follow...

leds^2=1337


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


Interesting. May take the spot of the Das on my list...


wait. the e-mail said the iOne Xarmor U9 will be $99.95 but it didn't specify if it was the wired or wireless model. if you go to the iOne site the iOne Xarmor U9 is wired but in the pictures above it's wireless so I don't know.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


wait. the e-mail said the iOne Xarmor U9 will be $99.95 but it didn't specify if it was the wired or wireless model. if you go to the iOne site the iOne Xarmor U9 is wired but in the pictures above it's wireless so I don't know.


It seems very odd that the wireless would be that cheap, I was expecting much more. But who knows.

Also, on the discussion of backlighting, I used to like it when I lived in a dorm room with another guy late at night when I tried to keep the light I was using to a minimum. Since then, maybe once or twice has it came in handy.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SPARTAN-001* 
I don't need it. It's helpful, but I have yet to see a mechanical keyboard at the sub $90 range that I like well enough to ditch my G15 for.

I understand the reason you came onto the thread. You probably feel all the rubber dome, logitech, and razer bashing is unfair/unwarranted. The feel of your G15 is not that much different than mech KBs in your opinion and that your KB comes with a lot of features you find practical/useful. So here's a few points I wanted to make to some of your posts:

1. What's the point of coming onto the thread in the first place? There is plenty of G15 love that goes on in the peripherals section anyways. I mean, this is a thread dedicated to mech KBs. does it somehow surprise you that it's filled with people who are passionate and devoted to them. I'm also sure that 99% of the people who are current owners used to own a rubber dome previously. I've personally used both the G15 and Razer ( my Lycosa sits in my closet on the bottom of a pile of clothes ), the majority of the comments on the "feel" and dislike for it comes from first hand use, not just unjustified bashing.

2. You continually bash the price point of mech KBs. Calling the price "obscene" and not warranted for the lack of features. The main reason for getting a keyboard is to use as an input device correct? Isn't the feel of the key switches the most important point than? I always hear people constantly pointing out the lack of features, but isn't the most important feature the feel of the keys + roll over capabilities? ( What actually impacts the input of the input device ). TwoCables has pointed out the price of the switches already, if you do the math, they alone can come out on average to be 50-60 dollars for the COST of the switches. So other than the features that you find attractive ( extra macro keys, LEDs, LCD ), most of the 10 dollar rubber domes have the same exact feel as the higher end logitech ones, that is what I feel is a rip off.

3. As far as justifying the purchase of Mech KBs. I assure you, most of the mech KB users here have multiple mech KBs. Why would we justify an expensive product by purchasing another one? I peronsally have 3 Mech KBs over $100 ( Filco 104 w/ NKRO, Steelseries 7G, and Cherry w/MX Reds ). I also find it hilarious you call out TwoCables. He is one of the most devoted Mech KB. owners on here, TwoCables has often stated that the most favorite part of his system is his mech KB. He types these long drawn out posts on all the virtues of his Filco down to the last detail. The guy loves his keyboard and this is not some front to justify spending over $100. This type of attitude is felt by most mech KB owners also, although it maybe a bit zealous sometimes, it is almost always genuine and not a way to "justify" spending an "obscene" amount.

I personally will use mechanical KBs only from this point on. From a price standapoint, the costs are justified by use of higher quality key switches and plastics. I don't mind if someone prefers rubber domes, but I couldn't justify the price point for some of them such as the G19.

tl;dr version:
Most of current mech KB users have extensive experience with rubber domes such as logitech and razer products. Mech KBs might seem expensive, but they justify the price with high quality build/parts. In relation, I can't justify the standard 10 dollar rubber dome and something like the G15, that is just my opinion though. Mech KB users aren't trying to justify their purchase by bashing, they just genuinely like their product that much. It's the norm that mech KB users purchase multiple mech KBs, this doesn't feel like denial, but more of genuine enthusiasm.


----------



## ez12a

oh wow the XArmor is something i will look into. I love blue cherry switches and my filco.


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I don't like them.

the font on the iOne Scorpius M10BL is actually worst than the Deck. I don't know why they chose Cherry MX Blue switches over Black but Otterclock should be happy since his dying wish is a Deck Legend with Cherry MX Blue switches. orange W, S, A, D? why not Red or Blue? why not arrows? they won't illuminate.

*a couple days ago a iOne service rep said the iOne Xarmor U9BL will be available in North America in Mid July and retail for $149.95 USD.*


I agree with everything you said. Poor thinking went into this product, its a super gamer keyboard with cherry blues? It has ugly orange keys that don't have markings so it won't light up? I wan't to meet the genius designer behind this


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SPARTAN-001*


I'm not afraid of leaving my G15 behind. I like the typing on mechanical keyboards that I could justify dumping Logitech, but again: the only thing I don't like about mechanical keyboards is the price. At the $100+ price point, I would expect to see some keyboards with fancy lights, holographic projectors, pizza dispensers, etc. What do you get for $100? A keyboard. Period. That's what I don't want. I don't want to spend more money for fewer features. End of story. If they were only $10 more, I'd drop the G15 in a second, but $60 more? No thanks. I can't stress this enough. My main objection is the price.


You just aren't comprehending the quality of the product, quality = costs more.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barrysgoods* 
You just aren't comprehending the quality of the product, quality = costs more.

He understands why it costs more, he's just saying it's more then he's willing to pay.

I would just say they are a better value, since the mechanical keyboards tend to have a smaller profit margin then the big gaming keyboards.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SPARTAN-001*


I'm not trolling. I just feel that the benefits of having a mechanical keyboard are being overstated somewhat, and that any perceived benefits are outweighed by the fact that mechanical keyboards cost twice as much for fewer features. I don't have a problem with quality on my G15, it feels solidly constructed, it hasn't broken from lugging it around to LAN parties and being beaten on a little bit by my friends, the electronics do what they need to, and it's got useful features. Just sayin' that I don't think that mechanical keyboards are cost effective. I came across as kind of a troll because I was in a bad mood at the time, from some stuff that's been happening lately, sorry about being so... overzealous. I hope there's no hard feelings, I didn't mean to offend anyone, just stating my opinion.


Maybe it's just the fact that you started you're first rant with "I'm not just trollin" that tipped me off.

If you feel the G15 is a good buy, then be happy with you're purchase. Mechanical keyboards are not for everyone and their mum (but they are for me and my mum, lol. She has an M1)


----------



## SPARTAN-001

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


I understand the reason you came onto the thread. You probably feel all the rubber dome, logitech, and razer bashing is unfair/unwarranted. The feel of your G15 is not that much different than mech KBs in your opinion and that your KB comes with a lot of features you find practical/useful. So here's a few points I wanted to make to some of your posts:

1. What's the point of coming onto the thread in the first place? There is plenty of G15 love that goes on in the peripherals section anyways. I mean, this is a thread dedicated to mech KBs. does it somehow surprise you that it's filled with people who are passionate and devoted to them. I'm also sure that 99% of the people who are current owners used to own a rubber dome previously. I've personally used both the G15 and Razer ( my Lycosa sits in my closet on the bottom of a pile of clothes ), the majority of the comments on the "feel" and dislike for it comes from first hand use, not just unjustified bashing.

2. You continually bash the price point of mech KBs. Calling the price "obscene" and not warranted for the lack of features. The main reason for getting a keyboard is to use as an input device correct? Isn't the feel of the key switches the most important point than? I always hear people constantly pointing out the lack of features, but isn't the most important feature the feel of the keys + roll over capabilities? ( What actually impacts the input of the input device ). TwoCables has pointed out the price of the switches already, if you do the math, they alone can come out on average to be 50-60 dollars for the COST of the switches. So other than the features that you find attractive ( extra macro keys, LEDs, LCD ), most of the 10 dollar rubber domes have the same exact feel as the higher end logitech ones, that is what I feel is a rip off.

3. As far as justifying the purchase of Mech KBs. I assure you, most of the mech KB users here have multiple mech KBs. Why would we justify an expensive product by purchasing another one? I peronsally have 3 Mech KBs over $100 ( Filco 104 w/ NKRO, Steelseries 7G, and Cherry w/MX Reds ). I also find it hilarious you call out TwoCables. He is one of the most devoted Mech KB. owners on here, TwoCables has often stated that the most favorite part of his system is his mech KB. He types these long drawn out posts on all the virtues of his Filco down to the last detail. The guy loves his keyboard and this is not some front to justify spending over $100. This type of attitude is felt by most mech KB owners also, although it maybe a bit zealous sometimes, it is almost always genuine and not a way to "justify" spending an "obscene" amount.

I personally will use mechanical KBs only from this point on. From a price standapoint, the costs are justified by use of higher quality key switches and plastics. I don't mind if someone prefers rubber domes, but I couldn't justify the price point for some of them such as the G19.

tl;dr version:
Most of current mech KB users have extensive experience with rubber domes such as logitech and razer products. Mech KBs might seem expensive, but they justify the price with high quality build/parts. In relation, I can't justify the standard 10 dollar rubber dome and something like the G15, that is just my opinion though. Mech KB users aren't trying to justify their purchase by bashing, they just genuinely like their product that much. It's the norm that mech KB users purchase multiple mech KBs, this doesn't feel like denial, but more of genuine enthusiasm.


I understand that I came across as kinda (ok, really) harsh in my first post. I was in a bad mood when I posted that, which in retrospect wasn't very smart. I didn't intend to start a fight (it might have come across that way), I was just wondering why people would spend so much money on something that didn't really seem to me to be worth it. I now understand why people feel that it's worth it to buy them, and I understand that your opinion is that I'm wrong to like my G15. So, once again, I apologize for my harsh tone in the first post, and if I am able to pick up a mechanical keyboard (unlikely, but it could happen), I will come back here and tell everyone if I like it or not. All I did was I gave my honest opinion that mechanical keyboards aren't worth it from where I'm standing. I never said that other people had to justify their purchases, I just said that I didn't think that I could justify spending that much on a keyboard. If I had more money, I might be persuaded to buy one. Yeah, the mechanical keyboards I tried were nice, but they weren't worth $120 when I tried them. That's all I was trying to say. If you want to bash me a bit more, maybe I deserve it







.


----------



## fssbzz

Hi guys, if i had the ABS M1 keyboard...and if im gonna buy the Deck keyboard, will i get any other better benefit other then back lightning, gaming & typing?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


Hi guys, if i had the ABS M1 keyboard...and if im gonna buy the Deck keyboard, will i get any other better benefit other then back lightning, gaming & typing?


buy a USB Cup Warmer. what kind of question is that?


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


buy a USB Cup Warmer. what kind of question is that?


what i mean is..if im using ABS M1 right now..isit worth it to get the Deck keyboard? will Deck keyboard way better or out perform ABS M1 alot other then Back lightning?


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


Hi guys, if i had the ABS M1 keyboard...and if im gonna buy the Deck keyboard, will i get any other better benefit other then back lightning, gaming & typing?


Better feel, way way better build quailty.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


what i mean is..if im using ABS M1 right now..isit worth it to get the Deck keyboard? will Deck keyboard way better or out perform ABS M1 alot other then Back lightning?


Yes its a far superior keyboard. There was a reason the M1 went on sale for $20.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


what i mean is..if im using ABS M1 right now..isit worth it to get the Deck keyboard? will Deck keyboard way better or out perform ABS M1 alot other then Back lightning?


oh. definitely a upgrade in every department. on paper Cherry MX Black Linear switches are lighter, no tactile point and more durable. full rollover, no transposition, back lighting, higher quality plastics and printing.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ljason8eg*


Better feel, way way better build quailty.

Yes its a far superior keyboard. There was a reason the M1 went on sale for $20.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


oh. definitely a upgrade in every department. on paper Cherry MX Black Linear switches are lighter, no tactile point and more durable. full rollover, no transposition, back lighting, higher quality plastics and printing.


thanks..thats what i want
oh ok..now...
i go to Deck Keyboards,that's 2 different type of keyboard..one is Linear, one is Tactile..what doest that mean? which one better?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


thanks..thats what i want
oh ok..now...
i go to Deck Keyboards,that's 2 different type of keyboard..one is Linear, one is Tactile..what doest that mean? which one better?


Linear models use Cherry MX Black Linear switches. Tactile models use Cherry MX Clear switches.

Quote:



The linear switches have an almost consistent force through the entire stroke of the key. This means that when you first start pressing down on the key all the way until you completely bottom the key out as far as it can go, the force you feel at your finger remains the same. Not much feedback besides when you feel the "thud" at the bottom.

The tactile switches have a slightly elevated force around the midpoint of the stroke of the key. So, when you have pressed the key down about halfway, the force increases slightly for a brief moment, and then goes back to normal. This gives your fingers an indication that the key has been pressed so you can stop pressing the key and let up to move on to another key faster. Think of it as a "click" feel without the "click" sound (Cherry does also have a tactile switch - MX1A-E1NW - that also makes the "click" sound much like old IBM keyboards).


----------



## Phaedrus2129

What the ABS has is a tactile switch, but a rather poor one. The Deck's tactile switches are slightly lighter and have a more rounded tactile bump. They also have a slightly longer travel, so it's easier to not bottom out with a loud "THUNK". But some people dislike the bump for gaming; personally, I don't mind it (though I have the lighter MX brown instead of MX clear like the Deck.

The linear switches are described as smooth, but heavy, no good for typing, but great for gaming.

And the Deck is better than the ABS M1 in virtually every way.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Linear models use Cherry MX Black Linear switches. Tactile models use Cherry MX Clear switches.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


The linear switches are described as smooth, but heavy, no good for typing, but great for gaming.

And the Deck is better than the ABS M1 in virtually every way.


the heavy means need more weight on it when typing?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


the heavy means need more weight on it when typing?


do you own the ABS M1?


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


do you own the ABS M1?


ya..


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


ya..


***kas actuate between 60-70g and bottom out at 100g. 
Cherry MX Clear actuate at 55g and bottom out at 100g.
Cherry MX Black actuate at 60g and bottom out at 80g

the ***kas in the ABS M1 actuate at the highest.

the obvious choice is the Linear model.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
***kas actuate between 60-70g and bottom out at 100g.
Cherry MX Clear actuate at 55g and bottom out at 100g.
Cherry MX Black actuate at 60g and bottom out at 80g

the ***kas in the ABS M1 actuate at the highest.

the obvious choice is the Linear model.

ok nice info...i type alot too.. game alot too.
MX black looks like a very good choice for me..so i will get linear..not the tactile right.?

thanks again Imnop


----------



## lmnop

right. if your fingers can tolerate the ***kas either Cherry MX Black or Clears will be a good choice. but if I were you and owned the ABS M1 I would choose Cherry MX Blacks because Cherry MX Clears and ***kas have similar characteristics ie they are both high force and have a tactile point I would want something different.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
right. if your fingers can tolerate the ***kas either Cherry MX Black or Clears will be a good choice. but if I were you and owned the ABS M1 I would choose Cherry MX Blacks because Cherry MX Clears and ***kas have similar characteristics ie they are both high force and have a tactile point I would want something different.

absolutely right, and i really prefer lighter force then ABS M1..
thanks









and 1 more question..i wanna get a wrist rest..what's the best wrist rest u guys will recommend me.?


----------



## kidwolf909

Hey guys, is this Cherry keyboard a mechanical?

The reason I ask is because I have access to one up at work and wanted to know if it was worth the hassle of bringing it home.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
absolutely right, and i really prefer lighter force then ABS M1..
thanks









and 1 more question..i wanna get a wrist rest..what's the best wrist rest u guys will recommend me.?

3M Silicone Wrist Rest. it's similar to the one EliteKeyboards sells but much cheaper.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
absolutely right, and i really prefer lighter force then ABS M1..
thanks









and 1 more question..i wanna get a wrist rest..what's the best wrist rest u guys will recommend me.?

Do you like squishy or hard? I don't understand hard ones, lol. Either get the one linked above, or just go to best buy or something and try a few out. I have a random no-name squishy from BB that's been working great for about 4 years.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidwolf909* 
Hey guys, is this Cherry keyboard a mechanical?

The reason I ask is because I have access to one up at work and wanted to know if it was worth the hassle of bringing it home.

20mil operations means it's probably a scissor or rubber dome switch.


----------



## Crazy9000

How high is that 3M wrist rest? I think mine is a little taller, which is nice since it lets you rest your wrists on it, while keeping you hands higher like you were hovering properly. The picture is top down though, hard to tell.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidwolf909* 
Hey guys, is this Cherry keyboard a mechanical?

The reason I ask is because I have access to one up at work and wanted to know if it was worth the hassle of bringing it home.

nope.


----------



## gordesky1

not sure about anyone else but i love my abs m1 lol not sure whats with all the hate lol

its really solid. keys has nice tactile bump which i like and love the loudness.

i know the deck and anything over the 100$ price point is better but its for sure not a 20$ keyboard or anything like that lol.

ya newegg had it for that price but than sold out and been discontinued and now it pretty much goes for more if you can find them.

i paid 40$ for mine from ebay but i would say it should be 60 or 70$ well i think so









same thing is happening with the i-rocks orange backlit keyboard membrane which i herd is the best membrane/rubberdome and i believed it which i got for 19$ but now the price is rising and its out of stock lol

but i am later on thinking of getting the backlit light deck ony if its just as loud as the m1 and has tactile bump but it needs too have those for me too upgrade too it.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gordesky1*


not sure about anyone else but i love my abs m1 lol not sure whats with all the hate lol

its really solid. keys has nice tactile bump which i like and love the loudness.

i know the deck and anything over the 100$ price point is better but its for sure not a 20$ keyboard or anything like that lol.

ya newegg had it for that price but than sold out and been discontinued and now it pretty much goes for more if you can find them.

i paid 40$ for mine from ebay but i would say it should be 60 or 70$ well i think so









same thing is happening with the i-rocks orange backlit keyboard membrane which i herd is the best membrane/rubberdome and i believed it which i got for 19$ but now the price is rising and its out of stock lol

but i am later on thinking of getting the backlit light deck ony if its just as loud as the m1 and has tactile bump but it needs too have those for me too upgrade too it.


the cable is short and braided, incompatible with PS/2, rollover was falsely advertised, pad printed keycaps, transposition problem, cheap plastics, the change from XM switches to ***kas, etc.

there are better Alps keyboards.


----------



## gordesky1

cable is fine with me it can be little bigger tho but you can always make it bigger and i like braided cables they last longer and easier too not get snagged on something.

ps/2 really isint a problem too me and rollover isint either sense i don't think no game requires over 4 keys too be push well none of the games i play and i pretty much have all of them lol it does do 5 on some keys tho.

cheep plastic? i don't know feels really solid too me lol its 3 + lbs and has a very solid feel unless you mean inside plastic because outer feels really solid to me.

but than again im not capareing it too 100$ + keyboards lol i know those are better.

and im not too worry about the printed keycaps i just paint them or put new prints on them when they do wear off that's if they do sense that hardy happens too me


----------



## ljason8eg

Its 3 lbs because of the steel plate that the switches mount to, not because the plastics are high quality. The two most annoying things about mine is, first, the key blocking. There's a bunch of gaming combos that are blocked out. Second, the keycaps wobble quite a bit.


----------



## crosshairiv

are there places to try out the boards?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ljason8eg* 
Its 3 lbs because of the steel plate that the switches mount to, not because the plastics are high quality. The two most annoying things about mine is, first, the key blocking. There's a bunch of gaming combos that are blocked out. Second, the keycaps wobble quite a bit.

Just curious, which combos did you have problems with? When I used the little test here:http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscie...Explained.mspx

It seemed to pass everything WASD style gaming would need. I like my ABS M1 for the $20 I spent on it, but I am glad I never spent the full $50 on it for the same reasons you and lmnop mentioned. I am looking forward to purchasing thermaltakes i-rocks copy with cherry blacks and NKRO depending on their pricing.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crosshairiv* 
are there places to try out the boards?

haha i wish i would be at that place all day to see how the keyboards are


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi* 
Hey Manyak, have you ever thought about starting a "feature rich" keyboard guide to stop all this bickering in the mechanical keyboard guide? I'm sure people who want the _gamer_ keyboards would really appreciate it. Something that includes the G15, DeNovio Edge, and Razer products. It seems like a lot of people are hating on Mech keyboards all of the sudden, kind of like the time everyone hated on corsair PSUs for being popular and a little pricey.

Anyways, I contacted Elite keyboards and they said that they couldn't change my shipping (which is FedEx's fault







) and that they would tell FedEx to hold it for me until I got back from vacation. +1 to elitekeyboards and -1 to FedEx.

I really don't care enough about them to do it. As far as I'm concerned no standard rubber dome board is worth more than $10. And while there _are_ some quality non-mechanical boards that might be worth mentioning, they don't really need a whole guide on their own.

I think I might write a CRT guide though.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
Mech KB users aren't trying to justify their purchase by bashing, they just genuinely like their product that much. *It's the norm that mech KB users purchase multiple mech KBs, this doesn't feel like denial, but more of genuine enthusiasm.*

This. Seriously, most of us have more keyboards than we'd need for an entire lifetime. Hell, off the top of my head I think I have 10 right now - that's something like 200 years worth of typing. Why? Because I wanted to try out all the switches I could (still need Cherry Reds!!), and because it's nice to switch keyboards once in a while just for a different feel.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Derp*


Just curious, which combos did you have problems with? When I used the little test here:http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscie...Explained.mspx

It seemed to pass everything WASD style gaming would need. I like my ABS M1 for the $20 I spent on it, but I am glad I never spent the full $50 on it for the same reasons you and lmnop mentioned. I am looking forward to purchasing thermaltakes i-rocks copy with cherry blacks and NKRO depending on their pricing.


WRV doesn't work. That's the big one for me I use V a lot for voice chat, obviously W to run, and R to reload. There's more that I can't remember off the top of my head. I just know that on more that one occasion I've been like...oh what the hell it blocked a key.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *crosshairiv*


are there places to try out the boards?


My local Fry's carries the Steelseries 7G and SIIG Mechanical ( Cherry Blues ). My Microcenter carries the SIIG and at times the Das. Check those stores out, theyre the known national chains to carry Mech KBs in stock.

Fry's has a pretty good return policy, so if you don't like it, return without any questions asked.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I really don't care enough about them to do it. As far as I'm concerned no standard rubber dome board is worth more than $10. And while there _are_ some quality non-mechanical boards that might be worth mentioning, they don't really need a whole guide on their own.

I think I might write a CRT guide though.

This. Seriously, most of us have more keyboards than we'd need for an entire lifetime. Hell, off the top of my head I think I have 10 right now - that's something like 200 years worth of typing. Why? Because I wanted to try out all the switches I could (still need Cherry Reds!!), and because it's nice to switch keyboards once in a while just for a different feel.


You just let me know if any of them need a new home.

Yeah, rubberdomes don't really need much explanation since they all pretty much use the same do they not? Is there really much difference one dome to another?

OT:
Also, TopFuel, I know you are out there, I'm watching you.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


You just let me know if any of them need a new home.

Yeah, rubberdomes don't really need much explanation since they all pretty much use the same do they not? Is there really much difference one dome to another?

OT:
Also, TopFuel, I know you are out there, I'm watching you.


For the most part there isn't a large difference between the rubber domes, but they aren't all exactly the same.


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

A crt tutorial would be amazing. These kiddies who grew up with lcds need to know that crts are good for things besides headaches. I would personally love the second coming of the crt.

OT: thank-you for writing this tutorial manyaks. without this, I wouldn't even know what a mechanical keyboard was.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


3M Silicone Wrist Rest. it's similar to the one EliteKeyboards sells but much cheaper.











thanks







u been a great help again..will get my the Deck next week.im out of town right now..cant let the UPS to live my keyboard outside


----------



## gordesky1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ljason8eg*


WRV doesn't work. That's the big one for me I use V a lot for voice chat, obviously W to run, and R to reload. There's more that I can't remember off the top of my head. I just know that on more that one occasion I've been like...oh what the hell it blocked a key.



wrv works for me but i did hear that some abs m1s hits more keys than others

i mustve got one of the lucky ones









sense i dont have no problem with the things i do in games which one new one being all points bulletin which you need too push alot of keys sometimes and the m1 handles it fine.

and i know about the steel plate makeing it the most heavy but the outer plastics feels solid too me and the key wobble doeisnt bother me much even tho they dont move much on mine and usely i like little wobble instead of really stiff.

just like some have trouble with the space bar sqeaking that haveint happen too me yet and i always used that key









but ya best 40$ i spent on a keyboard.

sure this is my first mechanical keyboard so im not sure what the ones that cost over 100$ feels yet but i did watch and listen too alot of youtube videos and the best sound i liked is the abs m1 out of them .. so maybe the alps ***as is for me.

but the deck i might get later on but have too do more research on it because i dont want too buy it and be stuck with it because i like the m1 more.. lol mainly for the sound.

was also looking at the das keyboard too but the sound doeisnt really sound as loud as the m1 :\\


----------



## Crazy9000

The Das uses blues which are the loudest switch I know of.

Here's a video I posted a little bit back of the Deck and the Das keyboard. You can really see how loud the das is, lol. 
Code:


Code:


[URL=http://eps-clan.com/videos/deckvsdas.wmv]http://eps-clan.com/videos/deckvsdas.wmv[/URL]


----------



## gordesky1

hmm that is loud maybe the das will be in my future pick









could be me bottoming out on the abs m1 which gets loud. its little less noisey if i soft touch the keys but i like the sound so i bottom out which is really loud even in the youtube videos.

also i keep hearing the cherrys blues wasint that good for gaming because of the click or something? but i wouldint think it would bother me at all.

not sure if thats true.

also nice video







sound is much better than the youtube ones.


----------



## Marin

I do fine with my Blues when gaming.


----------



## Crazy9000

It depends on how you game I guess. With the blues, you need to lift your finger all the way up before pressing the key down again.

For me, I'm trying to switch too fast so the blues aren't very good.


----------



## gordesky1

hmm not sure if the blues will be good for me sense i do have too hit the keys really fast in some games like driving cars in apb or gtas which requires alot of fast switching and i hold the key half way down...

but i still have time sense i just got the m1 a week ago and loveing it so problee in couple months or so pretty much depens on how the abs m1 holds up over time.


----------



## TFL Replica

It's an unfortunate trend that more and more PC games (obviously designed with consoles in mind) have these QTEs (quick time events) that require insanely fast key pressing to win.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


The Das uses blues which are the loudest switch I know of.

Here's a video I posted a little bit back of the Deck and the Das keyboard. You can really see how loud the das is, lol. http://eps-clan.com/videos/deckvsdas.wmv


Believe it or not, the Buckling Springs are even _louder_.

*Edit:* I apologize in advance for asking, but can you remove the embedding of your video and just turn it into a plain text link like I have in the quote? I mean, for some reason, Firefox tells me that I need to "Install Missing Plugins" with each page load, and I have "100 Posts Per Page" selected in my User CP (which means for me, it's going to be a very long time before this thread gets a new page). I have looked around the internet for a solution to this strange problem, but no matter what I do, Firefox just seems to think that I don't have WMP 11 installed.

So can I have some mercy?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *gordesky1*


hmm that is loud maybe the das will be in my future pick









could be me bottoming out on the abs m1 which gets loud. its little less noisey if i soft touch the keys but i like the sound so i bottom out which is really loud even in the youtube videos.

also i keep hearing the cherrys blues wasint that good for gaming because of the click or something? but i wouldint think it would bother me at all.

not sure if thats true.

also nice video







sound is much better than the youtube ones.


Perhaps the Das Model S is louder than the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click, but Crazy9000's video makes the Das Model S sound way louder than my Tactile Click. However, I've seen a few dozen different YouTube videos of people demonstrating their mechanical keyboards, and there are many that make the Das Model S sound much quieter than that. It just depends on the recording equipment used as well as other technical variables at play.

But it's true that very serious, very professional gamers feel that the Cherry MX Blues are the worst choice for gaming. However, for casual gamers like me, I love them to pieces.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Believe it or not, the Buckling Springs are even _louder_.

*Edit:* I apologize in advance for asking, but can you remove the embedding of your video and just turn it into a plain text link like I have in the quote? I mean, for some reason, Firefox tells me that I need to "Install Missing Plugins" with each page load, and I have "100 Posts Per Page" selected in my User CP (which means for me, it's going to be a very long time before this thread gets a new page). I have looked around the internet for a solution to this strange problem, but no matter what I do, Firefox just seems to think that I don't have WMP 11 installed.

So can I have some mercy?









Perhaps the Das Model S is louder than the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click, but Crazy9000's video makes the Das Model S sound way louder than my Tactile Click. However, I've seen a few dozen different YouTube videos of people demonstrating their mechanical keyboards, and there are many that make the Das Model S sound much quieter than that. It just depends on the recording equipment used as well as other technical variables at play.

But it's true that very serious, very professional gamers feel that the Cherry MX Blues are the worst choice for gaming. However, for casual gamers like me, I love them to pieces.


Aw, it was one of the few videos I can embed since youtube got broken on OCN







.

Well I was doing some "hardcore gaming" so I'm really bottoming out the keys. If the youtube videos are just pressing down enough to click, that would explain it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Aw, it was one of the few videos I can embed since youtube got broken on OCN







.


Oh man, I owe you one. Thank you!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Well I was doing some "hardcore gaming" so I'm really bottoming out the keys. If the youtube videos are just pressing down enough to click, that would explain it.


Yeah, some were! Good call.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


3M Silicone Wrist Rest. it's similar to the one EliteKeyboards sells but much cheaper.











The EK one is leather. That one is plastic. The EK one costs more. Makes sense...


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


The EK one is leather. That one is plastic. The EK one costs more. Makes sense...


yes but when I said similar I meant in construction. it's not plastic. 3M Silicone Wrist Rest is leatherette with silicone and a metal base. EliteKeyboards Wrist Rest is leather with foam and a metal base.

3M Silicone Wrist Rest cost $8-12, widely available and has positive feedback. EliteKeyboards Wrist Rest cost $42. KBC gives you the same one for free.


----------



## Marin

Got the HHKB case. It's built nicely but for some reason it's smells like sulfur. So I sprayed the crap out of it with Febreze and it's airing out outside.


----------



## barrysgoods

Which do you like better as a pure gaming keyboard, the Steelseries 7G which costs me $115, or the Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless Linear Black for $121?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *barrysgoods*


Which do you like better as a pure gaming keyboard, the Steelseries 7G which costs me $115, or the Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless Linear Black for $121?


if you can't afford the Deck Legend Fire then buy the steelseries 6gv2 because when it's released I don't think there will be a good reason to buy the steelseries 7g anymore. I haven't seen many people use the multimedia ports and the plastic wrist rest you either like or don't.

the steelseries 6gv2 isn't just a lightweight steelseries 7g without the multimedia ports and plastic wrist rest but it also has some slight improvements like dimmer led and a standard size backspace.


----------



## lmnop

steelseries 6gv2 is now in stock thanks to ripster.


----------



## Manyak

Don't forget to pick up your OCN ALPS Keycaps


----------



## Marin

I'll get one once they come out with a Cherry stem.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Don't forget to pick up your OCN ALPS Keycaps 

Wasn't Phaedrus doing that? Seems things changed. . .


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Wasn't Phaedrus doing that? Seems things changed. . .

Admin wants all things OCN to be under OCN control. For a while I thought things were stuck in development hell (or the online project equivalent) but Chipp pulled through.







And he also said that Cherry MX ones are in the works.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Wasn't Phaedrus doing that? Seems things changed. . .

Chipp took over that so it's OCN Official.

With an official Vendor (being Tank Guys) it keeps things more orderly.

They've also already setup a run for Cherry MX stem versions


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Admin wants all things OCN to be under OCN control. For a while I thought things were stuck in development hell (or the online project equivalent) but Chipp pulled through.







And he also said that Cherry MX ones are in the works.

Pretty understandable given you would have to sell them, and they have the OCN logo. Hopefully the alps sell good so they won't think twice about going through with the cherry's, but if they're already in the works the process may be started on those already.


----------



## lmnop

i'll be surprised if they sell them all because they took way to long to approve this. out of all the ABS M1 owners from the $19.99 sale how many have stuck around? the people that do have Alps keyboards ie geekhack members don't even like this forum. nice looking keycap.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
i'll be surprised if they sell them all because they took way to long to approve this. out of all the ABS M1 owners from the $19.99 sale how many have stuck around? the people that do have Alps keyboards ie geekhack members don't even like this forum. nice looking keycap.

It's not necessarily about selling all of them they possibly can.
As it's not a for profit idea.

The reason behind selling the keycaps is to get OCN Merch to people that want it.


----------



## lmnop

it is for the person stuck with the bill lol


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
it is for the person stuck with the bill lol

That'd be OCN footing the bill, and like I said; it's about making the merch available. Not how much you sell.


----------



## Crazy9000

I'm sure they will sell the first run eventually over time. It's not like a bundle of keycaps takes much shelf space. How well they sell would mean if they're willing to do different ones like cherry switches and windows key replacements.

Hopefully the cherry's get done anyways, as I think they would sell better, being $5 isn't very much to those of us who shelled out $100+ for our keyboards, but it's a good chunk of change for the guys who only paid $20.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Admin wants all things OCN to be under OCN control. For a while I thought things were stuck in development hell (or the online project equivalent) but Chipp pulled through.







And he also said that Cherry MX ones are in the works.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Chipp took over that so it's OCN Official.

With an official Vendor (being Tank Guys) it keeps things more orderly.

They've also already setup a run for Cherry MX stem versions



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Pretty understandable given you would have to sell them, and they have the OCN logo. Hopefully the alps sell good so they won't think twice about going through with the cherry's, but if they're already in the works the process may be started on those already.


+1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Hopefully the cherry's get done anyways, as I think they would sell better, being $5 isn't very much to those of us who shelled out $100+ for our keyboards, but it's a good chunk of change for the guys who only paid $20.


Yeah, this. But by now hopefully those $20 buyers will realize how much it was worth it.

I'd consider getting an OCN flame key for my deck, but only if it was the same quality as the rest of my board. Hopefully the backlighting will still look the same or I'd be a mad panda.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


+1

Yeah, this. But by now hopefully those $20 buyers will realize how much it was worth it.

I'd consider getting an OCN flame key for my deck, but only if it was the same quality as the rest of my board. Hopefully the backlighting will still look the same or I'd be a mad panda.


Post some pictures when you can. I wanna know what it'll look like on my Deck.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Post some pictures when you can. I wanna know what it'll look like on my Deck.


Will have to wait for the cherry version. I believe the flame is in white so the light will not really go up the middle like it does on the deck keys.


----------



## gordesky1

hmm might have too buy one of those OCN keys for my abs m1


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


+1

Yeah, this. But by now hopefully those $20 buyers will realize how much it was worth it.

I'd consider getting an OCN flame key for my deck, but only if it was the same quality as the rest of my board. Hopefully the backlighting will still look the same or I'd be a mad panda.


It won't light up like the deck keys, but it's double-shot molded ABS. It doesn't get any better quality than that.

But yeah, I think a Cherry MX version would sell the best.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


It won't light up like the deck keys, but it's double-shot molded ABS. It doesn't get any better quality than that.

But yeah, I think a Cherry MX version would sell the best.


Double Shot PBT, Dye Sub PBT


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Will have to wait for the cherry version. I believe the flame is in white so the light will not really go up the middle like it does on the deck keys.


Yeah the flame's supposed to be white; but as long as it doesn't look toooo out of place; I'd consider grabbing one for my deck (as I just ordered it.)

I still have a Filco none-the less. So if anything it'd go on there well.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Yeah the flame's supposed to be white; but as long as it doesn't look toooo out of place; I'd consider grabbing one for my deck (as I just ordered it.)

I still have a Filco none-the less. So if anything it'd go on there well.


. nvm you mean you just ordered the Deck. lol

I thought you meant you ordered the flame key already.


----------



## Crazy9000

I don't imagine it would look bad on the deck, since the esc key is all alone. It's not like the R key suddenly being unlit.


----------



## lmnop

the led in your R key died?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
the led in your R key died?

I mean the R key would look really weird unlit with all the keys around it, but since the flame is just meant to be esc it'll probably be fine.


----------



## lmnop

oh right.

I like the ink look to dye sublimation.

Quote:

Blanks / Pad Printed / Sublimated
1 set $ 518.71 / set $ 795.79 / set $ 792.69 /
set
2 sets $ 269.01 / set $ 443.56 / set $ 420.40 /
set
3 sets $ 185.78 / set $ 326.14 / set $ 296.30 /
set
4 sets $ 144.15 / set $ 267.44 / set $ 234.25 /
set
5 sets $ 119.18 / set $ 232.21 / set $ 197.03 /
set
10 sets $ 69.24 / set $ 161.76 / set $ 122.56
this is a price quote from Signature Plastics last year. I am sure dye sublimation is cheaper than 2 shot molding.


----------



## ch_123

Main problem with dye-sub is that you can't do white-on-black. In fact, I don't think you can do white on anything due to the way it works.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

You could dye the background.


----------



## drjoey1500

Just got a filco tactile touch for my uncle's computer. Man this thing is nice. Much smaller and quieter than I expected. Feels very sturdy. Keystrokes feel very accurate and controlled. Cherry browns are really nice. In an entirely different universe compared to the at101w's I'm used to using. It's actually quite easy to not bottom out the keys. Keep in mind I just pulled it out of the box. Even if I do it's still pretty quiet. No regrets here. I think my uncle will like it







. No noise complaints I think. Only problem is now I want one







.


----------



## Marin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Main problem with dye-sub is that you can't do white-on-black. In fact, I don't think you can do white on anything due to the way it works.


Ah, so that explains why Topre has black-on-black.


----------



## Thosesneakyfrench

My motherboard is dead, so I'm currently stuck on a Dell with no PS/2 ports. I remember reading something about either the Das or Filcos not liking USB, would I have issues if I ordered just any old ps/2-usb adapter for my Cherry G80-8200?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Thosesneakyfrench*


My motherboard is dead, so I'm currently stuck on a Dell with no PS/2 ports. I remember reading something about either the Das or Filcos not liking USB, would I have issues if I ordered just any old ps/2-usb adapter for my Cherry G80-8200?


once you connect a PS/2 to USB adapter the rollover will be limited.

not all PS/2 to USB Adapters work properly sometimes there is power issues, led problems, scan code problems, etc. I suggest the Blue Cube.


----------



## Thosesneakyfrench

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
once you connect a PS/2 to USB adapter the rollover will be limited.

not all PS/2 to USB Adapters work properly sometimes there is power issues, led problems, scan code problems, etc. I suggest the Blue Cube.

Well, it's not as though I have a choice; it's that, or deal with an IBM rubber dome for the two months it takes evga to turn an RMA.

I love my baby so much, every keystroke I make that isn't a cherry brown feels like sacrilege.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *drjoey1500* 
Just got a filco tactile touch for my uncle's computer. Man this thing is nice. Much smaller and quieter than I expected. Feels very sturdy. Keystrokes feel very accurate and controlled. Cherry browns are really nice. In an entirely different universe compared to the at101w's I'm used to using. It's actually quite easy to not bottom out the keys. Keep in mind I just pulled it out of the box. Even if I do it's still pretty quiet. No regrets here. I think my uncle will like it







. No noise complaints I think. Only problem is now I want one








.

Your uncle is one lucky man!! May I adopt you as my nephew?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Thosesneakyfrench* 
My motherboard is dead, so I'm currently stuck on a Dell with no PS/2 ports. I remember reading something about either the Das or Filcos not liking USB, would I have issues if I ordered just any old ps/2-usb adapter for my Cherry G80-8200?

Are you saying that you own both a Das and a Filco that you can use?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
Ah, so that explains why Topre has black-on-black.

Yeah, and why black Model Ms and AT101Ws have crappy pad printing whereas the white ones are dye sub'd


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Your uncle is one lucky man!! May I adopt you as my nephew?









Are you saying that you own both a Das and a Filco that you can use?


No, he's asking if his CherryG80 would share the same issue as a Das or Filco with an adapter.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The Cherry G80/G81-8*** series PCBs support both USB and PS/2.


----------



## lmnop

seller in Hong Kong shipping the Cherry G80-3494 worldwide $89 /ea + $79 shipping on eBay.


----------



## wr3ck3dm1nd

So I'm very tempted to get an Otaku 104 key. Does anyone have any experience with these? I'm not sure how i would fare with them right off the bat. My avg typing speed is anywhere between 80 and 110 wpm and i rarely look at keys, but i do rely on them every so often just to get started.


----------



## new001

SteelSeries 7G in the mail! Can't wait to feel the difference...


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wr3ck3dm1nd*


So I'm very tempted to get an Otaku 104 key. Does anyone have any experience with these? I'm not sure how i would fare with them right off the bat. My avg typing speed is anywhere between 80 and 110 wpm and i rarely look at keys, but i do rely on them every so often just to get started.


if you are not confident in touch typing don't purchase a Otaku model. you can always buy a set of Blank Keycaps from EliteKeyboards. unless your incapable of learning, your brain will adapt.


----------



## Crazy9000

Having the blank keys can be a little annoying, but you will get used to it and it'll matter less and less as time goes on.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wr3ck3dm1nd*


So I'm very tempted to get an Otaku 104 key. Does anyone have any experience with these? I'm not sure how i would fare with them right off the bat. My avg typing speed is anywhere between 80 and 110 wpm and i rarely look at keys, but i do rely on them every so often just to get started.


But what about the bumps on the F and J keys? I mean, I never look at the keyboard: I just use the bumps to get started. Not only that, but I keep the G and H keys at dead center (centered with my Belly Button). This makes it nearly impossible for me to miss home row.

I don't have an Otaku version, but I also kinda prefer the aesthetics of printed keys.







Well, at least right now.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Your uncle is one lucky man!! May I adopt you as my nephew?








...

Lol, actually I was unclear. It's part of the computer I'm building for him. He was going to buy a dell or mac, so I quickly volunteered to build him one







. Looks pretty awesome next to a lian li pc-7B plus II. Waiting for the dell u2311 to complete the build







. We also got him a nice logitech performance mouse MX for his birthday a while back. It's pretty nice as far as general use. Let me tell you, IMO this rig is going to look amazing. Hope he likes matte black as much as I do







.


----------



## Sheehanigans

Today, what is the best mech keyboard in the entry/affordable range? I really loved my ABS M1, but I killed it.

$100 to spend on it, what's the word?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sheehanigans*


Today, what is the best mech keyboard in the entry/affordable range? I really loved my ABS M1, but I killed it.

$100 to spend on it, what's the word?


Ebay for:
Dell AT101W
IBM Model M

Though; I'd hold and wait and see how much the Rosewill RK-9000 will cost


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sheehanigans* 
Today, what is the best mech keyboard in the entry/affordable range? I really loved my ABS M1, but I killed it.

$100 to spend on it, what's the word?

steelseries 6gv2. it's definitely a upgrade over the ABS M1.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Ebay for:
Dell AT101W
IBM Model M

Though; I'd hold and wait and see how much the Rosewill RK-9000 will cost


Hmm... that keyboard looks just like the ABS M1 and Filco Majestouch boards. And since it has the Cherry MX Blues, I'll say it looks like the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click! But since it has a braided cable, it's more like the ABS M1.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



First things first. Although NewEgg would have you believe otherwise, Rosewill is simply a "house brand" of Newegg. They are not a separate company, although Newegg might like you to believe they are. I point this out here because the deserved bad reputation of Rosewill should not be limited to Rosewill - this is just Newegg operating under a different name.


..


----------



## poldo

i'd love to have any of these keyboards but man, shipping costs is probably more expensive than the keyboard itself in my country. i just hope someone would be kind enough to send me one, lol.

anyway, just signed in to give rep to the thread starter but didn't notice that its not available for moderators.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Roseiwll RK-9000 doesn't have anything to do with ABS.


Newegg owns ABS....


----------



## lmnop

ninja edit. it's a beautiful thing.


----------



## drjoey1500

I'm starting to see how twocables likes his keyboard so much. It is kinda addicting. It feels so nice, it's going to be hard to see it go. I think I'm doomed to have to get one soon







.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


I'm starting to see how twocables likes his keyboard so much. It is kinda addicting. It feels so nice, it's going to be hard to see it go. I think I'm doomed to have to get one soon







.


see what go?


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
see what go?

Filco tactile touch. Part of my uncle's computer I'm building.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *drjoey1500* 
Filco tactile touch. Part of my uncle's computer I'm building.

oh right I remember you mentioning that


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


Filco tactile touch. Part of my uncle's computer I'm building.


hehehe yep! Unfortunately, this is just one of those things in life that can only be truly understood once experienced. I'm not trying to say that words alone won't cut it, but instead I'm saying that there are no words (or combination of words) that I know of that can get somebody to say, _"Whoa! I understand now! You're right: it's definitely worth every penny!_"


----------



## barrysgoods

Ok im finally ordering my keyboard tonight, just wanted to check one thing with you guys, I am planning on purchasing the Steelseries 7G, I can get it for $125 shipped, but I am wodering, is the 6gv2 any different? aside from not coming with the plastic hand wrest and not having the usb or audio ports, its the same keyboard right? Do you think its worth it to save $25 and get the 6gv2?


----------



## wr3ck3dm1nd

Just pulled the trigger on the Filco 104 key Majestouch Tactile Touch "Otaku" NKRO. Can't wait to enjoy typing again!


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *barrysgoods*


Ok im finally ordering my keyboard tonight, just wanted to check one thing with you guys, I am planning on purchasing the Steelseries 7G, I can get it for $125 shipped, but I am wodering, is the 6gv2 any different? aside from not coming with the plastic hand wrest and not having the usb or audio ports, its the same keyboard right? Do you think its worth it to save $25 and get the 6gv2?


the steelseries 6gv2 has a larger backspace key.


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the steelseries 6gv2 has a larger backspace key.


yeah i saw that haha, but I just went with the 7g, its only $25 more and I can get it NOW! 6gv2 still on preorder at amazon, god knows when they will ship it.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *barrysgoods*


yeah i saw that haha, but I just went with the 7g, its only $25 more and I can get it NOW! 6gv2 still on preorder at amazon, god knows when they will ship it.


there are several retailers that have it in stock. see here.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sheehanigans*


Today, what is the best mech keyboard in the entry/affordable range? I really loved my ABS M1, but I killed it.

$100 to spend on it, what's the word?


Here's a cheap option

http://www.provantage.com/adesso-mkb-125b~7ADES09Q.htm


----------



## lmnop

I don't see the point in buying the steelseries 7g anymore. you shouldn't connect your multimedia through extensions not that I have even seen anybody use the multimedia ports on the steelseries 7g anyways. the wrist rest is plastic, led are bright and the backspace is small.

steelseries 6gv2 has a larger backspace, dim led and no multimedia ports or wrist rest. you save money that can be used to buy a proper wrist rest.


----------



## barrysgoods

I wonder if those places truly have the 6gv2 in stock, you can't even get one off of Steelseries' site yet.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barrysgoods* 
I wonder if those places truly have the 6gv2 in stock, you can't even get one off of Steelseries' site yet.

So then call those stores.









But some manufacturers just aren't good at keeping their website up to date, and so Steelseries might be one of them.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Though; I'd hold and wait and see how much the Rosewill RK-9000 will cost


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823201040

Now in stock, price slightly disappoints IMO but it could be just right since it has MX Blues. Edit; if they deactivate/de-list it again I've just taken a screenshot, so I'll put that up if they do that.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823201040

Now in stock, price slightly disappoints IMO but it could be just right since it has MX Blues. Edit; if they deactivate/de-list it again I've just taken a screenshot, so I'll put that up if they do that.


I can see a massive sale on this. As it happens to almost all Rosewill products.

Though; if it is NKRO & Cherry Blues, that's the best price on those switches anywhere.


----------



## lmnop

I was expecting the price point to be $75. I don't think the Rosewill RK-9000 will change anything until it takes a price cut. The Das Model S Professional is $99 with Free Shipping if you use one of the two promo codes or regularly for $109 at SidewinderComputers.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823201040

Now in stock, price slightly disappoints IMO but it could be just right since it has MX Blues. Edit; if they deactivate/de-list it again I've just taken a screenshot, so I'll put that up if they do that.

It looks like an ABS M1 with Cherry MX Blues. So I will call it a hybrid ABS M1/Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO with a Rosewill logo.

So $99 seems to be a really reasonable price, especially since the switches are mounted on a steel plate.

But, I wouldn't call this a gaming keyboard. They should have used the Cherry MX Browns so that it's more versatile between gaming and typing.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

They defined NKRO, so apparently they know what that means. Hopefully it's really implemented.

I expect that $99 is just the MSRP, and the actual average price will be around $60-$80.


----------



## digitalurn

LTTP, but _wow_. This thread made me break down and buy myself a Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO (Okatu).
Time to throw out my G11!







Thanks for the informative OP!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
They defined NKRO, so apparently they know what that means. Hopefully it's really implemented.

I expect that $99 is just the MSRP, and the actual average price will be around $60-$80.

If it's the MSRP, then will Newegg eventually lower the price?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I've never seen Newegg sell something at MSRP for long. Occasionally they'll sell for just under MSRP, but usually they'll sell for at least ~20% under.


----------



## lmnop

500 pages


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
500 pages


















Or 50 for us cool kids using 100 posts/page


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kamakazi* 
Or 50 for us cool kids using 100 posts/page

Creeping up on 51 here soon.







Always a relief to have a new page so I don't have to scroll as much.


----------



## lmnop

50 pages!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
Creeping up on 51 here soon.







Always a relief to have a new page so I don't have to scroll as much.

If you're using Firefox, then I recommend two wonderful Extensions:

Back to Top
Menu Editor
I am including Menu Editor so that you can remove certain items from the Context Menu (or "right-click menu") that have the same keyboard shortcuts thereby allowing you to simply Right-click and then press 'B' or 'T' to instantly go to the bottom or top. I mean, there are other items in the default Context Menu that already use both 'T' and 'B'.









I know that this doesn't _completely_ save on scrolling, but it's certainly immensely helpful!


----------



## gordesky1

i was about too order one of those flame esc keys for my m1 but the total after i put in my payment infro which was paypal was 14$ ....

which on the page it said free shipping and i even checked it even said total 5$ but as soon as the last page came on it said i had too pay for shipping which was 9$.

did they change it or something? i had too canceled it sense i don't want too pay 14$ for just a key...


----------



## reaper~

Well, according to tankguys that issue has already been fixed (linky). I placed my order and paid only 5 bucks.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tankguys*


Doh sorry to hear about the cart issues! It's a new install of the cart software, and it can be buggy at times









If you do order, and it charges you shipping, don't worry - we'll cut you a refund for the difference. So don't let that stop you


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gordesky1*


i was about too order one of those flame esc keys for my m1 but the total after i put in my payment infro which was paypal was 14$ ....

which on the page it said free shipping and i even checked it even said total 5$ but as soon as the last page came on it said i had too pay for shipping which was 9$.

did they change it or something? i had too canceled it sense i don't want too pay 14$ for just a key...


If you can't get it to work, just put the order through anyways and contact tankguys. They'll refund the overcharged amount. Or you could probably just contact them and try to put the order manually.


----------



## gordesky1

yep got it too work after a couple refreshing and when i had it in cart this time i didn't any shipping option just on the last page i did and it said 5$ total









tobad they don't make more designs for the keys for the m1







like color keys so i could put them on my wasd and arrow keys even tho i don't look at the keyboard when i typing or game but still would be cool looking









but i could always paint them myself later on with some rubber coating colors.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

They don't charge for the shipping. It shows up, but is never charged to your account, at least for the one person who tried it. Take the leap of faith, trust it's just a software glitch.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I am including Menu Editor so that you can remove certain items from the Context Menu (or "right-click menu") that have the same keyboard shortcuts thereby allowing you to simply Right-click and then press 'B' or 'T' to instantly go to the bottom or top. I mean, there are other items in the default Context Menu that already use both 'T' and 'B'.









I do have Home and End keys on my keyboard, you know, they do the exact same things.







I'm just talking about scrolling to a specific reply without having the link to it. It's only a REAL problem in a worklog or a pics thread where I have to pour through oodles of embedded images.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
500 pages


















Are those cannolis?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
50 pages!










Making me hungry







. Even though that doesn't necessarily look very good (Cannolis looks like they have pickle relish on them.







).


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


I do have Home and End keys on my keyboard, you know, they do the exact same things.







I'm just talking about scrolling to a specific reply without having the link to it. It's only a REAL problem in a worklog or a pics thread where I have to pour through oodles of embedded images.


I know about Home and End of course. I'm just tossing up another option that may or may not be more convenient.


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


Are those cannolis?

Making me hungry







. Even though that doesn't necessarily look very good (Cannolis looks like they have pickle relish on them.







).


those look delicious, they are pistachios dude!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *barrysgoods*


those look delicious, they are pistachios dude!


Those aren't pistachios! They're chicken strips!


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

I love my new filco. These cherry browns are not loud and the feel is great! I noticed a major difference in my typing when I tried it out for the first time. I'm going to test the NKRO now: xcde5bvgftr76nmhm. It worked


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

wdAasdl;fjksadfjkl;576xscdebvgftry89bvgftr76nhyu8, 9cdmjkio0 7845b6nyu,9.

EDIT: oops got a little happy there and pressed enter lol. I <3 this keyboard.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


Are those cannolis?

Making me hungry







. Even though that doesn't necessarily look very good (Cannolis looks like they have pickle relish on them.







).


pistachio


----------



## godofdeath

the DAS keyboards don't come with the ps/2 adapter thingy right?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
the DAS keyboards don't come with the ps/2 adapter thingy right?

Actually, they do.









Here's a screenshot:










This is the same for all four models. But I think that they should make it more obvious than this because it took me several minutes to find it.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Actually, they do.









Here's a screenshot:










This is the same for all four models. But I think that they should make it more obvious than this because it took me several minutes to find it.


cool thanks

now i just wonder

anyone got a coupon code for DAS?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


cool thanks

now i just wonder

anyone got a coupon code for DAS?


try this DKEDUIOS


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


try this DKEDUIOS


nope no luck 
what did it do?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


nope no luck 
what did it do?


24% discount. if you are a student e-mail or fax Metadot a copy of your student id and they will give you a promotional code for a 24% discount.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
24% discount. if you are a student e-mail or fax Metadot a copy of your student id and they will give you a promotional code for a 24% discount.

what really

wait how do i do this

nvm i saw the contact them thing lets hope it works


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Das Professional S review:
http://hardwareaware.com/review/das-professional-s/


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Das Professional S review:
http://hardwareaware.com/review/das-professional-s/

thanks for the review







surprised you didn't mention the Blank or Ultimate model.

question does the box still have the picture of the Media Key layout on the front of the box? or did they update it?


----------



## Maytan

^It's updated.


----------



## Marin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Das Professional S review:
http://hardwareaware.com/review/das-professional-s/

Nice review.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
^It's updated.

reason I asked such a silly question was because people try to list Das Professional and Ultimate models as Das Model S on eBay.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
reason I asked such a silly question was because people try to list Das Professional and Ultimate models as Das Model S on eBay.

Oh, I see.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Oh, I see.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Das Professional S review:
http://hardwareaware.com/review/das-professional-s/

good review you should mention how to get the 32% or w/e discount like specifically how to get it lol

waiting for das to get back to me on getting a student discount


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
good review you should mention how to get the 32% or w/e discount like specifically how to get it lol

waiting for das to get back to me on getting a student discount

Hopefully they don't get second thoughts after getting flooded with people from here lol.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Hopefully they don't get second thoughts after getting flooded with people from here lol.

I got the impression from my email conversation with them that they're more than welcome to hand them out as long as you meet the requirements (scan of student ID card).

Since I ordered mine I've told two people I know personally and they both placed orders as well. So I helped with 2 more sales


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ljason8eg* 
I got the impression from my email conversation with them that they're more than welcome to hand them out as long as you meet the requirements (scan of student ID card).

Since I ordered mine I've told two people I know personally and they both placed orders as well. So I helped with 2 more sales









Cool. They should advertise it more, I think the discount will help a lot of people pull the trigger on one.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ljason8eg* 
I got the impression from my email conversation with them that they're more than welcome to hand them out as long as you meet the requirements (scan of student ID card).

Since I ordered mine I've told two people I know personally and they both placed orders as well. So I helped with 2 more sales









so you needa scan the id card?

ok i will do that now lol


----------



## Popple

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 

*PS/2 or USB?*
PS/2 wins on three fronts: First, it supports full n-key rollover. Second, PS/2 keyboards aren't polled, but are completely interrupt based. And third, it is impossible for it to be delayed by the USB bus being used by other devices. There are two types of USB transfer modes - the interrupt transfer mode (USB polls keyboard, when key is sensed the USB controller sends the interrupt to the CPU), and the isochronous transfer mode, which reserves a certain amount of bandwidth for the keyboard with a guaranteed latency on the bus. Unfortunately, there are absolutely no keyboards made that use the latter, because special controllers would have to be used, thus making it cost prohibitive.

Does this really matter? I think PS/2 keyboards are being phased out. I had a look at the new keyboards for sale and all of them are usb based. The only PS2 keyboards are leftovers. In the future it's going to be hard to find a PS2 keyboard if you still want one.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Popple* 
Does this really matter? I think PS/2 keyboards are being phased out. I had a look at the new keyboards for sale and all of them are usb based. The only PS2 keyboards are leftovers. In the future it's going to be hard to find a PS2 keyboard if you still want one.

Any mechanical keyboard with full NKRO has a USB/PS/2 adapter included. The cord coming from the keyboard is still USB, you just use the adapter to get the additional benefit of PS/2.

99% of the new keyboards are cheap rubber dome boards too. Doesn't mean they're any good.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Popple*


Does this really matter? I think PS/2 keyboards are being phased out. I had a look at the new keyboards for sale and all of them are usb based. The only PS2 keyboards are leftovers. In the future it's going to be hard to find a PS2 keyboard if you still want one.


Currently, every mechanical keyboard that features full NKRO (full N-Key Rollover) requires the use of the included USB to PS/2 adapter. Without that adapter, it's limited to the current USB spec of 6 simultaneous keypresses plus 4 modifiers such as Shift or Ctrl.

So, when we're discussing the use of PS/2, we are usually referring to mechanical keyboards that feature full NKRO; but not always.

If you're wondering what full NKRO is, then it's this: full NKRO would be incorrectly advertised today as _"full Anti-Ghosting across the entire keyboard"_. This means that with full NKRO, all 104 keys can be pressed at the same time, and all 104 will be sent and will register. Without full NKRO, the majority of those keypresses would be blocked.

But there are many mechanical keyboards that don't have full NKRO but yet they still come with a USB to PS/2 adapter for those who want to enjoy the advantages of PS/2.

So yes, it most certainly matters.


----------



## Popple

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


So, when we're discussing the use of PS/2, we are usually referring to mechanical keyboards that feature full NKRO; but not always.


I thought it meant for all keyboards. My mistake.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Popple*


I thought it meant for all keyboards. My mistake.


It still is technically better on any board that supports it for the simple fact that it gets around the USB polling rate.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Popple*


I thought it meant for all keyboards. My mistake.


Well, I suppose it can include rubber dome keyboards too. After, all, the advantages of PS/2 aren't limited to just mechanical keyboards. But it's tough to include rubber dome boards since PS/2 rubber dome keyboards are being phased out. Well, they're at least harder to find at popular stores like Best Buy.

But perhaps someday we'll have a new interface that will replace USB and have all the benefits of PS/2 without being considered to be "old technology". If this happens, then I hope it plugs in just as securely as USB.


----------



## ch_123

The real question is whether anyone really needs more than 6KRO... Hell, it's rare that I bump into problems with well designed 2KRO...


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


The real question is whether anyone really needs more than 6KRO... Hell, it's rare that I bump into problems with well designed 2KRO...


If once...just once...you play a console emulator or an old dos game where you have two people playing on a keyboard, you can run into trouble with 6-KRO.

And on 2-KRO it's easy to run into trouble finding the right keys for even one player on those things. It took me like 10 tries to configure ZSNES on my laptop, lol.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


If once...just once...you play a console emulator or an old dos game where you have two people playing on a keyboard, you can run into trouble with 6-KRO.

And on 2-KRO it's easy to run into trouble finding the right keys for even one player on those things. It took me like 10 tries to configure ZSNES on my laptop, lol.


I hit a wall with 6-KRO on THPS, but it's only when I'm doing something that needs the most commands lol. That game you use both hands on the keyboard.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I hit a wall with 6-KRO on THPS, but it's only when I'm doing something that needs the most commands lol. That game you use both hands on the keyboard.


Tony Hawk Pro Skater?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Tony Hawk Pro Skater?


Yeah, I have a world record in THPS3, and use the keyboard. You end up needing a pretty decent one.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Yeah, I have a world record in THPS3, and use the keyboard. You end up needing a pretty decent one.

Ah; wasn't sure. I had/have THPS 3 & 4 for the PS2, people use to give me crap online because I was "better" than them. But I told them it was because i was using a keyboard.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Ah; wasn't sure. I had/have THPS 3 & 4 for the PS2, people use to give me crap online because I was "better" than them. But I told them it was because i was using a keyboard.


Having a keyboard doesn't really make you better. My clanmate used a ps2 controller and was really good too. He had higher scores in some levels then I could get, and vise versa.

If you were on the ps2 with a keyboard, you would have had to use an adapter. None of them were good enough for any serious playing, since they wouldn't update fast enough so eventually it would just be impossible to balance. Also since the ps2 is designed to have you tap the stick up halfway to balance a little less, if you fly on with a keyboard adapter it will be sending a full force up and you will get trouble from that as well.


----------



## shatin89

Hi can anyone help me out?

Does anyone know which Plastic(s) and 
what method of printing is used in MacBook Keycaps/Keyboard?

Thanks


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *shatin89*


Hi can anyone help me out?

Does anyone know which Plastic(s) and 
what method of printing is used in MacBook Keycaps/Keyboard?

Thanks


They are formed out of hate and despair. . .

But seriously, all I can find on them is that they may use some sort of environmentally friendly polycarbonate of sorts. (source at bottom)


----------



## Marin

Not really about mechanical keyboards but...

What's a good application or site for learning proper typing position, go.


----------



## Crazy9000

For proper typing position:

1. Sit in chair and lean back
2. Position feet up on desk
3. Put keyboard on lap
4. Insert drink of choice in left hand
5. Peck away at keyboard with remaining hand


----------



## Marin

Lol.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


Not really about mechanical keyboards but...

What's a good application or site for learning proper typing position, go.


One great resource is the Microsoft Healthy Computing Guide (I am dead serious). This same guide also comes with Windows 7: open the Start menu and type "healthy" and then press Enter.

But here's one thing that they don't mention that is actually very important:

The 'G' and 'H' keys are the dead center of the typing area on a 104-key U.S. layout keyboard: position the keyboard so that the 'G' and 'H' keys are centered with your Belly Button. Microsoft's guide says it incorrectly by just saying that we should center the keyboard in front of us. But this puts the center of the typing area off to the left - especially with full-size keyboards! So again, make absolutely sure to always use the 'G' and 'H' keys as a reference point for the center of your keyboard.

The vertical height of the keyboard in relation to your body is also very important: it should be on a vertical plane that is just barely below that of your belly button. Another way to say it is to have it at about elbow level. Actually, this is why some people prefer to have their keyboard on their lap; it puts the keyboard at the perfect height. The only problem with this is that full-size keyboards are difficult to properly center due to having more mass to the right of the 'G' and 'H' keys than on the left.

But definitely study this guide. It shows many things that are much more important than they might otherwise seem. One of those things is hovering your wrists while typing. I can't _begin_ to tell you how much easier it is to type this way. I have been touch typing since at least 1995 and I've only been hovering my wrists for maybe 3 months now, and now that I am typing this way I am reminded of how the book I used for learning how to type tried to stress the importance of keeping the wrists in the air while typing. I'm also reminded of how every single thing I've ever read or heard about proper ergonomics at the computer tried to stress the importance of hovering the wrists while typing. And so now that I'm doing it, I fully understand why it's so important. It perfectly aligns with the mechanics of the human body.


----------



## Marin

Thanks for the info but what I was referring to was the position of my hands on the keyboard, guess I should have been clear about that.

So basically, something like this:










Since I type way differently:


----------



## TwoCables

The graphic you found is 100% accurate. Try to go by that as it is by far the most ergonomic way for the QWERTY layout. I would also add this:

Left hand takes care of 12345 (plus the Tilde that is to the left of the '1' key)

Right hand takes care of 67890, etc.

But also, try to hover your wrists while typing. It will give you tremendous freedom.


----------



## W4LNUT5

I use my index finger for C and M. It's more natural feeling.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
I use my index finger for C and M. It's more natural feeling.

When the fingers are on the Home Row, it's less of a reach or a stretch to press C with the left hand's middle finger, but M is indeed pressed by the right hand's index finger. Using the right-hand's index finger on the 'M' key helps to avoid tripping the index and middle fingers up on the bottom row. It would be like sticking your right leg behind your left leg while trying to walk forward.

When I try to press 'C' with my left hand's index finger, it goes against the proper angle of Touch Typing. It's less ergonomic.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
Thanks for the info but what I was referring to was the position of my hands on the keyboard, guess I should have been clear about that.

So basically, something like this:










Since I type way differently:






I'd suggest finding one of the many online typing lesson/tutors and going from there. Keep your fingers on the homerow and learn to use your ring fingers and pinkys














.

The idea is pretty much the finger types the row it's in like your diagram said. Anything between goes to the index fingers, anything outside goes to the pinkies. Many ppl have bad habits though that aren't too tragic. I have a bad habit of hitting the '0' key with my ring finger since it's a stretch for the pinky, but I've mostly gotten used to useing the pinky when I want to. My worse habit is hitting the 'b' with the wrong hand







.

Another tip, try reaching the backspace with your pinky without moving your hand too much. It's not that hard....OR I highly recommend switching the capslock key to backspace with autohotkey if you use it, or changing the registry if you like it.

As bad of a habit as that is (no offense) I'm impressed you can type like that on blanks.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *drjoey1500* 
I'd suggest finding one of the many online typing lesson/tutors and going from there. Keep your fingers on the homerow and learn to use your ring fingers and pinkys














.

The idea is pretty much the finger types the row it's in like your diagram said. Anything between goes to the index fingers, anything outside goes to the pinkies. Many ppl have bad habits though that aren't too tragic. I have a bad habit of hitting the '0' key with my ring finger since it's a stretch for the pinky, but I've mostly gotten used to useing the pinky when I want to. My worse habit is hitting the 'b' with the wrong hand







.

Another tip, try reaching the backspace with your pinky without moving your hand too much. It's not that hard....OR I highly recommend switching the capslock key to backspace with autohotkey if you use it, or changing the registry if you like it.

As bad of a habit as that is (no offense) I'm impressed you can type like that on blanks.

Oh you just reminded me of something:

When I finally became 100% comfortable with touch typing to the point where I was probably easily hitting 70 WPM, I was still pressing Backspace with my index finger or something (all I remember is that it wasn't my pinky). But then one day I was just typing away for some reason I suddenly noticed what I was doing. So then I began working towards making sure that I pressed Backspace with nothing else but my pinky.

Today, it feels wrong to press the Backspace with anything else but my pinky. Plus, it is more of a stretch to use any other finger - even though I am hovering my wrists while typing.


----------



## Marin

Awesome, thanks for the info guys.

And I have no clue how I touch type like this, lol.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
Awesome, thanks for the info guys.

And I have no clue how I touch type like this, lol.

So? I didn't either.

There was also a point in your life that you didn't know how to tie your shoes either.

Then there was a point where you didn't know how to write.

Then there was a point when you didn't know anything about photography.


----------



## Marin

No, lol. What I'm saying is I don't know how I touch type like this. I just can for some reason. I'm not saying I can't touch type.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
No, lol. What I'm saying is I don't know how I touch type like this. I just can for some reason. I'm not saying I can't touch type.

You're right. I misread that.

I have a friend who types incredibly fast (he probably easily approaches 80 WPM) by just using his index and middle fingers. He doesn't look at the keyboard either. But, he's been typing that way since he was little, so there ya go.









However, he admits that he recognizes that he has certain typing problems that he wouldn't have if he were touch typing. I mean, touch typing properly is freedom (especially while hovering your wrists).


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


You're right. I misread that.

I have a friend who types incredibly fast (he probably easily approaches 80 WPM) by just using his index and middle fingers. He doesn't look at the keyboard either. But, he's been typing that way since he was little, so there ya go.









However, he admits that he recognizes that he has certain typing problems that he wouldn't have if he were touch typing. I mean, touch typing properly is freedom (especially while hovering your wrists).


I used to type just like your friend. I didn't even have to look at the keyboard, yet I could type using four fingers pretty damn fast, above 90WPM when doing those speed tests. But it was REALLY tiring :/


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I used to type just like your friend. I didn't even have to look at the keyboard, yet I could type using four fingers pretty damn fast, above 90WPM when doing those speed tests. But it was REALLY tiring :/


I think that he would agree. He says that his boss has told him several times that he's the loudest person he's ever heard on the keyboard. I am pretty sure that it's due to his technique.


----------



## v193r

i a totally pissed the Miniguru is canceled. I had everything i dream of in a keyboard: hhkb layout, small, and brown switches. Now i have to stay with my crappy abs m1 which is very noisy and require lots of force. Are their any other keyboards with a hhkb layout besides this and the hhkb, thou i doubt it.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


i a totally pissed the Miniguru is canceled. I had everything i dream of in a keyboard: hhkb layout, small, and brown switches. Now i have to stay with my crappy abs m1 which is very noisy and require lots of force. Are their any other keyboards with a hhkb layout besides this and the hhkb, thou i doubt it.


Meh, it looked nice, but not enough keys IMO. I'd hate to have to mess with function keys all the time. I can use keyboards like that (like my laptop's) but I love having a tenkey along with any extra keys I can get my hands on







. Remap any ones I don't use for media keys.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


i a totally pissed the Miniguru is canceled. I had everything i dream of in a keyboard: hhkb layout, small, and brown switches. Now i have to stay with my crappy abs m1 which is very noisy and require lots of force. Are their any other keyboards with a hhkb layout besides this and the hhkb, thou i doubt it.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


miniguru is canceled but all is not lost. KBC is releasing their own SFF










PCB Mounted Cherry MX Brown, Blue and Black switches. PBT Keycaps, PBT Casing, n-Key Rollover, Removable Cable.

I think imsto mentioned it will be available on the US Market via eBay and will retail for $120

more info here.


...


----------



## v193r

ohh and also the guru board had that programable stuff. man oh man that would come in handy while typing programs.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


ohh and also the guru board had that programable stuff. man oh man that would come in handy while typing programs.


How does that help with programming? Is it just because you're able to type common strings with the hit of a button?


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
How does that help with programming? Is it just because you're able to type common strings with the hit of a button?

yep.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
How does that help with programming? Is it just because you're able to type common strings with the hit of a button?

it doesn't. you could create your own layout through the drivers because the firmware was programmable.


----------



## drjoey1500

I fixed the autohotkey stuff I posted a while back. If you don't remember, this makes numpad keys media keys (for foobar2000) and volume keys when scroll lock is on. I finally figured out how to make the keys work normally when scroll lock is off. It was simple, but it took a while to realize it







.

Hope this helps someone. These are the ones I'm using now.

Code:


Code:


NumpadSub::
if getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
{
send {volume_up}
}
else
NumpadSub::NumpadSub
return

NumpadAdd::
if getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
{
send {volume_down}
}
else
NumpadAdd::NumpadAdd
return

Numpad4::
if getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
{
Run %ProgramFiles%\\foobar2000\\foobar2000.exe /prev
}
else
Numpad4::Numpad4
return

Numpad5::
if getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
{
Run %ProgramFiles%\\foobar2000\\foobar2000.exe /playpause
}
else
Numpad5::Numpad5
return

Numpad6::
if getkeystate("scrolllock", "T")
{
Run %ProgramFiles%\\foobar2000\\foobar2000.exe /next
}
else
Numpad6::Numpad6
return


----------



## lmnop

rebranded Chicony 7001 on eBay.


----------



## barrysgoods

Are there any cool replaceable keys for the Steelseries 7g? like for the WASD keys?


----------



## Otterclock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I don't like them.

the font on the iOne Scorpius M10BL is actually worst than the Deck. I don't know why they chose Cherry MX Blue switches over Black but Otterclock should be happy since his dying wish is a Deck Legend with Cherry MX Blue switches. orange W, S, A, D? why not Red or Blue? why not arrows? they won't illuminate.

*a couple days ago a iOne service rep said the iOne Xarmor U9BL will be available in North America in Mid July and retail for $149.95 USD.*

lol. I agree with you on the font. What's the deal with that. My dying wish may go unfulfilled for a while since I have a moratorium on keyboard purchases for the time being. I'm using a scissor switched Rosewill at the moment that I like a lot more than I should.


----------



## Maytan

I've got a little something bothering me. I've noticed that my W key seems to take less force to reach the actuation point than the rest of my keys. The tactility is still there, and it takes the same force to actuate; just not to reach the actuation point. (tactile bump) Get what I'm saying? Is this normal? I unfortunately don't remember if it felt like this NOotB, but it IS the key that's constantly being pressed during gaming. (which is what raises my suspicion)


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I've got a little something bothering me. I've noticed that my W key seems to take less force to reach the actuation point than the rest of my keys. The tactility is still there, and it takes the same force to actuate; just not to reach the actuation point. (tactile bump) Get what I'm saying? Is this normal? I unfortunately don't remember if it felt like this NOotB, but it IS the key that's constantly being pressed during gaming. (which is what raises my suspicion)

If anything just do a switch swap with the scroll lock key or something.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
If anything just do a switch swap with the scroll lock key or something.

ARE YOU MAD SIR!!! Swapping the Scroll Lock, but it is used so often.

/sarcasm


----------



## godofdeath

just bit the bullet and bought the das silent pro
102 bucks shipped


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I've got a little something bothering me. I've noticed that my W key seems to take less force to reach the actuation point than the rest of my keys. The tactility is still there, and it takes the same force to actuate; just not to reach the actuation point. (tactile bump) Get what I'm saying? Is this normal? I unfortunately don't remember if it felt like this NOotB, but it IS the key that's constantly being pressed during gaming. (which is what raises my suspicion)

I agree with Manyak because the distance to the actuation point should be identical from switch to switch. So if there's one that's different, then you can either swap the W's switch with the Scroll Lock's switch (or just a key that you never use), or RMA it. However, it sounds to me that swapping switches is easy except that it requires de-soldering and soldering. But this can still be a cakewalk as long as you are good at following instructions. Unfortunately, I can't provide those instructions - I've never done this.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I agree with Manyak because the distance to the actuation point should be identical from switch to switch. So if there's one that's different, then you can either swap the W's switch with the Scroll Lock's switch (or just a key that you never use), or RMA it. However, it sounds to me that swapping switches is easy except that it requires de-soldering and soldering. But this can still be a cakewalk as long as you are good at following instructions. Unfortunately, I can't provide those instructions - I've never done this.

Heat up soldering iron.

Melt solder.

Pick up molten solder with wick.

Put new switch in place.

Melt new solder into connectors.


----------



## Maytan

I'm not going to solder. I'm far too clumsy to even trust myself to bring it near a computer component. Besides, for a $135 keyboard (oh wait, $145 because I had to pay to RMA my first one! Thanks, Metadot.) I shouldn't have to do this.

As long as I'm ranting, I should add that there's other inconsistencies like this one on other keys, just not to the point where I thought it was worth complaining. (considering these Cherry switches are probably manufactured in Korean sweatshops for 15 cents a pop, I expected some degree of variation) However, the W key was so different that it's actually bothersome to use.

TwoCables, it's not the distance that is different; but the force to reach the tactile bump. (but not to actuate it) I don't know if you understand what I'm saying; it feels like the switch has been weakened, like it does with rubber domes.

I'm also having more squeaking problems with the stabilizers in my Enter and Backspace keys. The only way to keep them from squeaking, is to push towards myself while depressing the key. (so I'm positive it's the stabilizers this time, whereas last time it seemed to happen no matter what; making me think the switch is bad) I was going to lube them up myself with a keycap puller I made, but combined with the fact that my W key is like this I don't want to bother. I think I'm going to go back to Metadot's support, and ask for ANOTHER REPLACEMENT under warranty. If they make me pay for shipping I swear to God somebody working for Metadot is going to get a lengthy and angrily written letter from me.

For how much trouble/money this is turning out to cost me, I should've just gotten a Deck. I am severely disappointed right now. Combine this with the fact that my DAC's drivers have been conflicting with Windows' audiodg.exe, and the fact that my motherboard has been dropping connection with my Ethernet cable for no reason; I'm not a very happy camper.

The only thing to do now is order a second 5770 and sink into gaming ignorance...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I'm not going to solder. I'm far too clumsy to even trust myself to bring it near a computer component. Besides, for a $135 keyboard (oh wait, $145 because I had to pay to RMA my first one! Thanks, Metadot.) I shouldn't have to do this.


But being expensive doesn't guarantee that every single keyboard that gets sold is going to be 100% perfect. Even if you buy a product from a manufacturer who has top-notch quality control, there's still no guarantee that the unit purchased is going to be perfect. After all, why else would there be RMAs and EMAs, right?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


As long as I'm ranting, I should add that there's other inconsistencies like this one on other keys, just not to the point where I thought it was worth complaining. (considering these Cherry switches are probably manufactured in Korean sweatshops for 15 cents a pop, I expected some degree of variation) However, the W key was so different that it's actually bothersome to use.

TwoCables, it's not the distance that is different; but the force to reach the tactile bump. (but not to actuate it) I don't know if you understand what I'm saying; it feels like the switch has been weakened, like it does with rubber domes.


Oh, that's due to the spring inside the switch. From what I've seen in this thread, the spring is easy to replace by the end-user.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I'm also having more squeaking problems with the stabilizers in my Enter and Backspace keys. The only way to keep them from squeaking, is to push towards myself while depressing the key. (so I'm positive it's the stabilizers this time, whereas last time it seemed to happen no matter what; making me think the switch is bad) I was going to lube them up myself with a keycap puller I made, but combined with the fact that my W key is like this I don't want to bother. I think I'm going to go back to Metadot's support, and ask for ANOTHER REPLACEMENT under warranty. If they make me pay for shipping I swear to God somebody working for Metadot is going to get a lengthy and angrily written letter from me.

For how much trouble/money this is turning out to cost me, I should've just gotten a Deck. I am severely disappointed right now. Combine this with the fact that my DAC's drivers have been conflicting with Windows' audiodg.exe, and the fact that my motherboard has been dropping connection with my Ethernet cable for no reason; I'm not a very happy camper.

The only thing to do now is order a second 5770 and sink into gaming ignorance...


Based on past discussions in this thread regarding both the Das and Majestouch boards, it doesn't surprise me that the stabilizers are squeaky.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But being expensive doesn't guarantee that every single keyboard that gets sold is going to be 100% perfect. Even if you buy a product from a manufacturer who has top-notch quality control, there's still no guarantee that the unit purchased is going to be perfect. After all, why else would there be RMAs and EMAs, right?


I realize that. However, it doesn't make it less frustrating. As far as the current situation is, I'd be surprised to find out that Metadot or Majestouch even have quality control.

Quote:



Oh, that's due to the spring inside the switch.


That's what I figured.

Quote:



Based on past discussions in this thread regarding both the Das and Majestouch boards, it doesn't surprise me that the stabilizers are squeaky.


Doesn't surprise me either, that's why I hadn't complained up until now.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I realize that. However, it doesn't make it less frustrating. As far as the current situation is, I'd be surprised to find out that Metadot or Majestouch even have quality control.


I know how this will sound, but even Corsair sometimes produces bad PSUs.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


That's what I figured.


I know that that several of the regulars in this forum will be very happy to show you exactly how to swap the springs in the switches. You can swap the W's spring for the spring of a key you either never use, or use so rarely that it just doesn't matter. From what I've seen in past discussions, it sounds like it's very easy as long as you are told how to do it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Doesn't surprise me either, that's why I hadn't complained up until now.


I recommend asking these members what the best lubricant and application method is. I think the end result is that the keyboard will be in top shape.


----------



## Maytan

Haha, I seem to refresh just when you post.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I know how this will sound, but even Corsair sometimes produces bad PSUs.


Like I said, I'm aware of this. But my luck is at quite a low point right now...

Quote:



I know that that several of the regulars in this forum will be very happy to show you exactly how to swap the springs in the switches. You can swap the W's spring for the spring of a key you either never use, or use so rarely that it just doesn't matter. From what I've seen in past discussions, it sounds like it's very easy as long as you are told how to do it.


If it's fool proof, I'd be more than happy to try it. (I just don't have much confidence when it comes to 'modifications', if you could call this that)

Quote:



I recommend asking these members what the best lubricant and application method is. I think the end result is that the keyboard will be in top shape.


Miss lmnop has given me quite a few articles already. I planned to use Silicone Grease.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Haha, I seem to refresh just when you post.









Like I said, I'm aware of this. But my luck is at quite a low point right now...

If it's fool proof, I'd be more than happy to try it. (I just don't have much confidence when it comes to 'modifications', if you could call this that)

Miss lmnop has given me quite a few articles already. I planned to use Silicone Grease.


I once said that I've never used a soldering iron in my entire life nor have I worked on electronics or anything like this, but everyone here assured me that if I wanted to perform such a task like replacing a switch or a spring, then I would find that it's much easier than it seems due to my lack of experience.


----------



## Maytan

I'm sure it IS easier than I think, but I have absolutely no experience with soldering what so ever. I don't plan to experiment on my keyboard...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I'm sure it IS easier than I think, but I have absolutely no experience with soldering what so ever. I don't plan to experiment on my keyboard...


I think that replacing the spring doesn't require the use of a soldering iron. But like I said, I have absolutely no experience with soldering either. The closest I've ever come is I think I was watching my dad melt some of the solder back when I was maybe 6 or 7 years old. All I remember is the coil of solder; I don't remember what he was soldering whatsoever.

Back before I ordered my Majestouch (my first and only mechanical keyboard), I was expressing how I was absolutely on the fence about the switch type. Then somebody came along (probably Manyak or lmnop) and told me that if I ended up not liking the switch type in the keyboard I purchased, then I could just buy a keyboard through eBay that has different switches and swap them out. When I asked how easy it was or how to do it, they told me that all I had to do was de-solder the switches swap them, and solder them in.

I figured that they were assuming that I have used a soldering iron before so I told them that I have never even held one let alone *used* one! So they told me that it doesn't matter; if I'm good at following instructions, then I will easily be able to complete the job as though I've done it many times before!

But since all you'd have to do is swap out the spring, you don't have to worry about that. At least, this is what I am currently assuming. I expect to be wrong due to my lack of knowledge as it pertains to mechanical keyboards. But still, are you good at following instructions? I mean, if so, then they will likely assure you the same thing.


----------



## Maytan

I'm fairly good at following instructions, and I'm at least willing to give this spring switch a shot.

My skepticism about soldering still stands. It's always easy for someone who HAS experience to tell someone else that said thing they're experienced in is easy.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I'm fairly good at following instructions, and I'm at least willing to give this spring switch a shot.

My skepticism about soldering still stands. It's always easy for someone who HAS experience to tell someone else that said thing they're experienced in is easy.


But those who have done it before still had a first time.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I'm fairly good at following instructions, and I'm at least willing to give this spring switch a shot.

My skepticism about soldering still stands. It's always easy for someone who HAS experience to tell someone else that said thing they're experienced in is easy.


----------



## lmnop

http://monda.hu/blog/2009/05/11/das-...-and-analysis/

I don't think the Das Model S has changed much.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*








WHOAH THERE! No way I'm taking this thing apart!


----------



## lmnop

here are some Das Model S photos.

http://www.geoffbreach.com/hacks/das-keyboard-hack/


----------



## Maytan

You make it tempting, but my wallet screams; "Please, don't break the damned thing."


----------



## lmnop

thank god we live in the age of biological and nuclear warfare that way I don't have to sit in a fox hole with you Maytan and fight the germans for you.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


thank god we live in the age of biological and nuclear warfare that way I don't have to sit in a fox hole with you Maytan and fight the germans for you.


There's only one thing I can say to that.

Touche. Owned me pretty bad. Hehe...


----------



## lmnop

RMA it...


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


RMA it...


Do you really think I'm just going to wimp out after a call out like that? At the very least I'm going to lube up these stabilizers. I just have to buy some Silicone Grease... Any ingredients in particular I need to stay away from? (As far as ruining plastics)


----------



## lmnop

buy a tube of white lithium grease.


----------



## Maytan

http://www.ronshomeandhardware.com/1...htm?click=1014

How's this?


----------



## lmnop

fine.


----------



## lmnop




----------



## lmnop

lol that Family Guy video was in my clipboard I meant to post a Deck Legend 105 Ice Tactile unboxing video. even the packaging is a tank. don't see many Deck pictures or videos so I thought you guys would like to see.


----------



## Maytan

No 'diamond' steel backplate? Or is that only on the smaller models?


----------



## The Master Chief

Is n key rollover worth the 20 extra bucks?

I mean I don't press that many buttons simultaneously.


----------



## gordesky1

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The Master Chief* 
Is n key rollover worth the 20 extra bucks?

I mean I don't press that many buttons simultaneously.


If it was me i problee would pay the extra 20$ too have that feature incase i need it in the future lol

but right now i don't see me pushing more than 4 keys which is the max my abs m1 can handle. i can hit 5 or 6 on some keys.

playing 2 player games might be a different story on a keyboard, but that's what controllers and joysticks is for


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The Master Chief* 
Is n key rollover worth the 20 extra bucks?

I mean I don't press that many buttons simultaneously.

By design; you shouldn't have to many problems with 6+2KRO

Though, I'd happily buy an NKRO board again. It's more of the piece of mind of it.


----------



## Maytan

Well I'll be damned. The W key seems to have gotten 'harder' to press.

I think I may be tripping out over here, I'm gonna go open some windows.


----------



## The Master Chief

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=23135

Supposedly this is mechanical. I'll check the front page for info on it's switches.

Currently, this is my #1 choice cause it has media keys which is a plus for me.

EDIT: I see it has the same switches as an ABS M1.

Deck or majestouch... hmm.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *The Master Chief*


EDIT: I see it has the same switches as an ABS M1.

Deck or majestouch... hmm.


No it doesn't. ABS M1 = Black Alps, 7G = Cherry MX Blacks.


----------



## .45

Quote:



Originally Posted by *The Master Chief*


http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=23135

Supposedly this is mechanical. I'll check the front page for info on it's switches.

Currently, this is my #1 choice cause it has media keys which is a plus for me.

EDIT: I see it has the same switches as an ABS M1.

Deck or majestouch... hmm.



The 7G is a fantastic board. I'm using it to type as we speak. Linear MX Blacks are great for gaming.


----------



## The Master Chief

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


No it doesn't. ABS M1 = Black Alps, 7G = Cherry MX Blacks.












Quote:



Originally Posted by *.45*


The 7G is a fantastic board. I'm using it to type as we speak. Linear MX Blacks are great for gaming.


Is it better than a Deck?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

No, Deck has better build quality and backlighting.


----------



## The Master Chief

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
No, Deck has better build quality and backlighting.

Yeah the backlighting is awesome.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *The Master Chief*


Is it better than a Deck?


No, but it should be cheaper.


----------



## The Master Chief

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


No, but it should be cheaper.


and the deck compared to a majestouch?


----------



## Crazy9000

Again, I think the Deck is a better board, but you pay for it. If you are willing to pay the price of a Deck keyboard, it is one of the best values IMO. Their profit margin is pretty low on them.


----------



## The Master Chief

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Again, I think the Deck is a better board, but you pay for it. If you are willing to pay the price of a Deck keyboard, it is one of the best values IMO. Their profit margin is pretty low on them.


Yeah I figured.

I wanted to buy one of those limited edition white majestouches.

I just bought this instead.


----------



## max302

Peeps, I'm looking for a mech board. Shoot me a PM if you have something you'd want to get rid off.

http://www.overclock.net/wanted/7806...board-can.html


----------



## hoth17

Quote:



Originally Posted by *The Master Chief*


Yeah I figured.

I wanted to buy one of those limited edition white majestouches.

I just bought this instead. 


Good choice, but out of curiosity, why cherry black switches?


----------



## The Master Chief

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hoth17* 
Good choice, but out of curiosity, why cherry black switches?


Quote:

As linear (non-tactile) switches, these are one of the best types for gaming. When gaming, having a tactile bump does absolutely nothing because you're going to be bottoming out anyway. So these give you a very smooth feel. Also, the actuation and release points are at the exact same position. So games that require a lot of double tapping become easier than on any other keyswitch. However, most people don't enjoy typing on them that much.

Im a gamer


----------



## godofdeath

keyboard is coming on thurs yay
i hope i get it on thurs


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The Master Chief* 
Yeah I figured.

I wanted to buy one of those limited edition white majestouches.

I just bought this instead.

why didn't you buy the steelseries 6gv2?


----------



## The Master Chief

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
why didn't you buy the steelseries 6gv2?

Didn't like the small backspace button and the large enter button.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The Master Chief* 
Didn't like the small backspace button and the large enter button.

maybe you were unaware but steelseries launched the steelseries 6gv2 recently.


















































Changes

LED dimmer
no wrist rest
no multimedia ports
made backspace larger
it retails for $99 you can find it on google shopping.


----------



## godofdeath

the shift key got shrunk


----------



## lmnop

R-Shift. I don't use it much.


----------



## The Master Chief

Oh well.

I'll be happy enough with my majestouch


----------



## Egg-n

Has anyone tried one of these:

http://www.buy.com/prod/dsi-mechanci...209847083.html

I need a new keyboard (I've had 2 lycosa's that had a known problem) and want to try mechanical, but don't really have the money for other ones listed here. I think I may have seen some negative opinions on other DSI boards though.

Thanks!

Edit: It would appear after further research that this board is bad, bad, bad.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Egg-n* 
Has anyone tried one of these:

http://www.buy.com/prod/dsi-mechanci...209847083.html

I need a new keyboard (I've had 2 lycosa's that had a known problem) and want to try mechanical, but don't really have the money for other ones listed here. I think I may have seen some negative opinions on other DSI boards though.

Thanks!

Edit: It would appear after further research that this board is bad, bad, bad.

Never heard of it, but from the looks of it "Ewwwww"

Another option is this
http://www.provantage.com/adesso-mkb-125b~7ADES09Q.htm

It's one of the cheapest mechanical keyboards you can find around, and still acceptable quality.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Egg-n* 
Edit: It would appear after further research that this board is bad, bad, bad.

don't worry little Timmy I won't violate you.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Never heard of it, but from the looks of it "Ewwwww"

Another option is this
http://www.provantage.com/adesso-mkb-125b~7ADES09Q.htm

It's one of the cheapest mechanical keyboards you can find around, and still acceptable quality.

he mentioned he had owned more than one Razer Lycosa I don't think Cherry MX Blue switches are a good choice for Gaming.

the Adesso MKB-135B has alot of value for it's price but there are a couple complaints mainly the wobbly keycaps.










Quote:


Originally Posted by *Egg-n* 
Has anyone tried one of these:

http://www.buy.com/prod/dsi-mechanci...209847083.html

I need a new keyboard (I've had 2 lycosa's that had a known problem) and want to try mechanical, but don't really have the money for other ones listed here. I think I may have seen some negative opinions on other DSI boards though.

Thanks!

Edit: It would appear after further research that this board is bad, bad, bad.

Thermaltake is launching a couple Mechanical Keyboards under their eSports lineup. one of them is called the Meka.










the i-Rocks KR-6230 is the same keyboard only it has Cherry MX Brown switches instead of Cherry MX Black switches and has Blue LED instead of Yellow LED. you can purchase it on eBay for $69.99 it normally sells for $89-99 Manyak reviewed it here.

if this is out of your budget I suggest a Dell AT101W you can purchase one on eBay for less than $30.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

I've just pulled the trigger on a Majestouch Tenkeyless Tactile Touch. Pretty stoked. I game and type and I think I would prefer the ergonomics of 87 keys, so the mouse is closer.

Thanks to the OP for such a great thread and everyone else too.


----------



## Maytan

Alright, bought some White Lithium Grease. I should have enough time to find a keyring and some twisty ties from Potato Bread by time it gets here.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Found this on geekhack, http://cgi.ebay.com/Cherry-G80-3494-...#ht_1415wt_906

Apparently a good quality Cherry Red with NKRO. According to a geekhack poster it retails at a B&M for $150. So the exorbitant shipping price is just some kind of fee subversion and the total price makes sense.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=10774


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
Found this on geekhack, http://cgi.ebay.com/Cherry-G80-3494-...#ht_1415wt_906

Apparently a good quality Cherry Red with NKRO. According to a geekhack poster it retails at a B&M for $150. So the exorbitant shipping price is just some kind of fee subversion and the total price makes sense.

Heh, I have one of those ( in white ) and have posted a short review of it on OCN/Geekhack. The B&M price is more close to $100 US Dollars, I had family in China who purchased/shipped it over. I believe EMS shipping was around $30 US Dollars.


----------



## nijikon5

Christine, have you seen the upcoming mouse by Zowie?

http://www.zowiegear.com/index.php?o...d=130&Itemid=2

I was going to pick up the Xai until I saw this. Going to pick up the EC1 ( 5% smaller than EC2 ) with the black coating.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
Christine, have you seen the upcoming mouse by Zowie?

http://www.zowiegear.com/index.php?o...d=130&Itemid=2

I was going to pick up the Xai until I saw this. Going to pick up the EC1 ( 5% smaller than EC2 ) with the black coating.

I wouldn't bite without knowing what sensor it'll be sporting.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I wouldn't bite without knowing what sensor it'll be sporting.

The specs are the same (besides the DPI) as the MX518's sensor the ADNS 3080. If they got rid of the prediction and bypassed the bug that the MX518 has then it might be a great mouse.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I wouldn't bite without knowing what sensor it'll be sporting.

Did you read the article? I know it does not specifically state which sensor they chose ( other than it was an Optical ), but it seems as though Zowie had pretty good presence of mind during the whole selection process of a sensor. Went through 7 different sensors and didn't choose a laser based sensor because it did not pass their standards even though it is the new technology ( especially with laser tracking on cloth pads which a lot of gamers prefer ). Really sounds like Zowie is making solid mouse, the size is also important to me, even with the ****ty sensor on the Kinzu, I'm using it because of the smaller size.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Derp* 
The specs are the same (besides the DPI) as the MX518's sensor the ADNS 3080. If they got rid of the prediction and bypassed the bug that the MX518 has then it might be a great mouse.

Interesting. Usually I'd turn my head the other way, but I could always use a third option on my list. When does this thing release anyway?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Interesting. Usually I'd turn my head the other way, but I could always use a third option on my list. When does this thing release anyway?

ZOWIE announces HeatoN's EC-series of mice
Availability mid-August 2010.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Derp*


ZOWIE announces HeatoN's EC-series of mice
Availability mid-August 2010.


Guess I overlooked that... I'll consider it, but in all honesty the Naos just looks too comfortable.


----------



## Jalal

If youre lifting your mouse while gaming forget the Naos.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


If youre lifting your mouse while gaming forget the Naos.


Is it that hard to lift?.. I mean, according Mr. Auld (AKA Derp) my sensitivity is rather high. However, I'm still lifting fairly often.


----------



## Jalal

My sens is also high and i lift the mouse, too. I tried the ikari and that lifting problem was one main reason i sent it back. Or maybe you can break that habit of lifting the mouse?

edit: i even started to notice that i actually lift my mouse when i was trying the ikari because it was so hard doing it.


----------



## Maytan

I assume it's because of the way the side is shaped?


----------



## Derp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


If youre lifting your mouse while gaming forget the Naos.


 What problem does the naos 5000 have with lifting? It has the avago 9500 sensor so there will no stupid z-axis crap and the mouse only weighs 106g without the cord which is right around what a deathadder or mx518 weighs.


----------



## Jalal

Yes, no real grip for any finger.

If you want a comfortable mouse with tons of features and don't mind non-cloth surfaces, i suggest the Sharkoon Fireglider (black edition). You can even programm mosue movements on it and many things more. It uses the ADNS 6010 Sensor like the Copperhead, G5, and G7. I know that the Copperhead has some tracking issues, but i don't know exactly which. You could read that on the Razer blueprint forum, but maybe those are fixed on the sharkoon, dont even know if it has prediction. 
Well i bought that mouse for 30$ and it should come in the next days, i plan to tell you my thoughts on it if you like to.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Derp*


What problem does the naos 5000 have with lifting? It has the avago 9500 sensor so there will no stupid z-axis crap and the mouse only weighs 106g without the cord which is right around what a deathadder or mx518 weighs.


So weight isn't an issue.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


Yes, no real grip for any finger.

If you want a comfortable mouse with tons of features and don't mind non-cloth surfaces, i suggest the Sharkoon Fireglider (black edition). You can even programm mosue movements on it and many things more. It uses the ADNS 6010 Sensor like the Copperhead, G5, and G7. I know that the Copperhead has some tracking issues, but i don't know exactly which. You could read that on the Razer blueprint forum, but maybe those are fixed on the sharkoon, dont even know if it has prediction. 
Well i bought that mouse for 30$ and it should come in the next days, i plan to tell you my thoughts on it if you like to.


Hmm, I wish there was a way for me to try out the grip before I buy it. Unfortunately, I don't like using anything other than cloth. For this reason, my other recommendation (from miss lmnop) was the DA3G. I found one for $60 on ebay, but FWIH the BQ is fairly bad.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
Heh, I have one of those ( in white ) and have posted a short review of it on OCN/Geekhack. The B&M price is more close to $100 US Dollars, I had family in China who purchased/shipped it over. I believe EMS shipping was around $30 US Dollars.

Very cool. Are your thoughts on it still the same? Is it your favorite keyboard or do you like something better now?


----------



## airplaneman

Just ordered my Das Keyboard Professional Model S Silent..should be here tomorrow. I'm stoked!


----------



## fssbzz

anyone know what switch is from this keyboard?

http://www.amazon.com/USB-Desktop-Ke...pr_product_top


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *airplaneman*


Just ordered my Das Keyboard Professional Model S Silent..should be here tomorrow. I'm stoked!


Is it literally next day delivery?


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


anyone know what switch is from this keyboard?

http://www.amazon.com/USB-Desktop-Ke...pr_product_top


Cherry Blues


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Is it literally next day delivery?


i got mine today

shipped on monday

they coulda delivered it yesterday but they left it in stupid nj for like half a day


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*


Very cool. Are your thoughts on it still the same? Is it your favorite keyboard or do you like something better now?


Right so, I'm a gamer. Along with the cherry reds, I own blacks and black alps copies. I've also had a Filco with browns that a friend bought off me. I know a lot of people on this board are not the biggest fans of black switches and Filco KBs. I'd say that I prefer using the Reds most as a switch type. I mostly use the 3494, but I do often switch off to my Filco because I still like the feel of black switches. The key caps and the feel of the reds are superior, the Cherry KB however does not use a metal plate so it doesn't feel as solid as my Filco/SS 7G.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

So I ordered a keyboard yesterday before 8AM from Elitekeyboards and somehow my order got lost in their system even though I got a paypal receipt. I had two day shipping on it as I was hoping to get it before the weekend. Though now that it's lost I won't get it till Monday as it will ship out tomorrow. Not a huge deal as the website says it will ship out in 1-2 business days, so this is on-time, but I got the feeling it wouldn't have been if I didn't call.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Right so, I'm a gamer. Along with the cherry reds, I own blacks and black alps copies. I've also had a Filco with browns that a friend bought off me. I know a lot of people on this board are not the biggest fans of black switches and Filco KBs. I'd say that I prefer using the Reds most as a switch type. I mostly use the 3494, but I do often switch off to my Filco because I still like the feel of black switches. The key caps and the feel of the reds are superior, the Cherry KB however does not use a metal plate so it doesn't feel as solid as my Filco/SS 7G.


Nice. Cherry Red sounds great... I guess you didn't enjoy the Brown so much? If only the Cherry Red came in a Tenkeyless, I would definitely get it. The best gaming space saving keyboard I could find was the Majestouch Tactile Touch Cherry Brown, which I'm getting soon, hoping it will be nice.


----------



## Lawcheehung

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Cherry Blues


Aren't those simplified/'fake' white alps?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lawcheehung*


Aren't those simplified/'fake' white alps?










Nope, they're two completely different things.


----------



## Lawcheehung

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Nope, they're two completely different things.


Either way, http://www.amazon.com/USB-Desktop-Ke...pr_product_top - I'm nearly certain are not cherry blues.


----------



## airplaneman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Is it literally next day delivery?


I didn't get mine direct, I bought it from NCIX.com and they had a $10 next business day shipping option, so I just got that. It appears that it hasn't shipped yet, but sometimes the emails are a bit late, so I'm not too worried yet.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


i got mine today

shipped on monday

they coulda delivered it yesterday but they left it in stupid nj for like half a day


Yeah, it really depends on who you buy it from and how big of a city you live in.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lawcheehung* 
Either way, http://www.amazon.com/USB-Desktop-Ke...pr_product_top - I'm nearly certain are not cherry blues.

They're some type of Alps switch.


----------



## nijikon5

Yeah, I guess I was looking at the Heavy Duty SIIG Mech. KB. Didn't know they made 2 different ones. The Amazon is ALPS.


----------



## mikeymac17

Is any website currently selling the ABS M1?
Missed the newegg deal and I need a mechanical keyboard before I go back to programming for hours on end..


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The ABS M1 is discontinued.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mikeymac17*


Is any website currently selling the ABS M1?
Missed the newegg deal and I need a mechanical keyboard before I go back to programming for hours on end..


ebay or fs section of forums


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


ebay or fs section of forums


It's actually not even on ebay anymore.


----------



## mikeymac17

Gah! Well it doesn't seem like there are any other mech. keyboards at that price point correct?


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


It's actually not even on ebay anymore.


wow i thought people would go and jack up the prices


----------



## crt4life

Man, I've been having a hell of ahard time trying to decide which type of mechanical keybaord is right for me.

Right now i use a budget logitech keyboard with rubber membrane, so im sure any type of mech keyboard will be a step up.

My main use will be for gaming(fps in particular) and generally people will be saying cherry mx blacks switches are best for it, but i really think i would enjoy using a tactile keyboard(bucking spring or blue key)...but in reality i have no idea how any feel, and no legit stores anywhere close to try some out.

I would really like to hear some more opinions from people on gaming experinces with bucking spring and cherry blue.

Or should i jsut stick with majority are saying that black is best for gaming?...or maybe a balance of both sides with brown...ughh i cant decide!


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *crt4life*


Man, I've been having a hell of ahard time trying to decide which type of mechanical keybaord is right for me.

Right now i use a budget logitech keyboard with rubber membrane, so im sure any type of mech keyboard will be a step up.

My main use will be for gaming(fps in particular) and generally people will be saying cherry mx blacks switches are best for it, but i really think i would enjoy using a tactile keyboard(bucking spring or blue key)...but in reality i have no idea how any feel, and no legit stores anywhere close to try some out.

I would really like to hear some more opinions from people on gaming experinces with bucking spring and cherry blue.

Or should i jsut stick with majority are saying that black is best for gaming?...or maybe a balance of both sides with brown...ughh i cant decide!










Well since you are new to mechanical keyboards, I suggest you get the blues, which are the best for typing, and pretty good for gaming. There's no point in getting blacks because they're awesome for gaming, but mediocre for typing (they don't offer the same experience a typical mechanical keyboard will offer for typing), and I'm sure you won't be gaming for the rest of your life (gotta have some typing once in a while!).


----------



## ch_123

Browns are probably a better compromise for typing and gaming, being almost linear but not quite, and being really low force. Blues have that weird travel where they 'unclick' higher than where they register, which is really weird if you are repeatedly mashing a key (you'd have to feel it for yourself to really understand it)

Buckling spring keyboards are actually not all that bad for gaming.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mikeymac17*


Gah! Well it doesn't seem like there are any other mech. keyboards at that price point correct?


Rosewill RK9000 Cherry Blue should be on sale for $70 sometime soon, probably next week.


----------



## ch_123

Unicomps too.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Browns are probably a better compromise for typing and gaming, being almost linear but not quite, and being really low force. Blues have that weird travel where they 'unclick' higher than where they register, which is really weird if you are repeatedly mashing a key (you'd have to feel it for yourself to really understand it)

Buckling spring keyboards are actually not all that bad for gaming.


So is linear good? I watched a Youtube video on a person typing on a Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional 2, where he said that the keyboard was almost 100% linear, and he loved the typing experience. Black switches, however, offer the most linear experience, but a lot of people said that they are horrible to type on.

Blues aren't 100% linear, however, yet many other people say that they offer the best typing experience.

So now, I'm confused over whether blue's, black's, or brown's offer the best typing experience...or is it that the HHKB Pro 2 uses godlike Topre Capacitive Switches, which are better than browns, blues, and black's?


----------



## Maytan

^It's all preference. Usually linearity is considered 'bad' or less enjoyable for typing, however.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


So is linear good? I watched a Youtube video on a person typing on a Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional 2, where he said that the keyboard was almost 100% linear, and he loved the typing experience. Black switches, however, offer the most linear experience, but a lot of people said that they are horrible to type on.

Blues aren't 100% linear, however, yet many other people say that they offer the best typing experience.

So now, I'm confused over whether blue's, black's, or brown's offer the best typing experience...or is it that the HHKB Pro 2 uses godlike Topre Capacitive Switches, which are better than browns, blues, and black's?


Blues = Tactile Clicky
Browns = Tactile Non-Clicky
Blacks = Linear

The reason people do NOT like blacks for typing is because you usually have to bottom them out. Having the resistance blacks do and being a linear switch type, you don't have a definitive point where the keys register. Most mechanical keyboard enthusiasts love tactile keyboards for typing because it is not necessarily required to bottom out when typing. The linear feel comes in handy for gaming because of 1) The reduction of accidental key presses and 2) The release/actuation point being nearly identical and a fast spring back up after key registers. This makes blacks have a good and responsive feel for gaming.

I've tried all 4 different cherry switch types ( Reds, Browns, Blues, and Blacks ).

Reds are great for typing and awesome for gaming. They are linear but require less force than the blacks.

Browns are probably the keyboard I recommend to people who want a tactile feel and want their mech. KB for gaming/typing equally. It's a bit on the light side but is easier to do fast buttons than the blues. They still have the tactile feel, but you will be missing that low audible click noise.

Blues are amazing for typing, they are slightly more resistant than the browns. Not only do you get an the tactile response, but you do get an audible click to let you know the key press has registered. This trains you to be a fast responsive typist and makes typing really enjoyable ( see TwoCables ). However, if you do more gaming or 50/50, I'd recommend browns. I know a lot of users casual and slightly more hardcore have blues and enjoy them for gaming. After using blues for gaming, it feels like I cannot rest my fingers on the keys like how I usually play. Instead, I have to hover them very slightly above the keys so I make sure the keys fully reset before I hit another press. This is probably just the very slight minority though, the majority of people are not bothered by blues at all.

So in conclusion, if you do a lot of gaming or competitive gaming, get the blacks ( reds if possible ). You want a more balanced keyboard to do more gaming but a good amount of typing, get the browns. If you do more typing or if you just want that clicky noise/feel but the blues. Remember, browns are tactile too, just no click.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


^It's all preference. Usually linearity is considered 'bad' or less enjoyable for typing, however.


I can't imagine how linear keys could be considered "bad" for typing. There's absolutely nothing bad about typing on linear keys.

Typing on tactile keys is awesome, and a lot more enjoyable then linear. However, typing on linear keys is "normal" as opposed to "bad". Some of you guys make it sound like typing on linear is worse then a rubber dome







.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I can't imagine how linear keys could be considered "bad" for typing. There's absolutely nothing bad about typing on linear keys.

Typing on tactile keys is awesome, and a lot more enjoyable then linear. However, typing on linear keys is "normal" as opposed to "bad". Some of you guys make it sound like typing on linear is worse then a rubber dome







.


Hence why I said 'bad'. I didn't mean BAD perse, just worse than tactile. I have no problem typing on linear switches.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Well I just talked to Marin, and asked for his comments on his Filco Tactile Touch Tenkeyless Otaku keyboard, which does use blue switches. Apparently, he and I used to play TF2 competitively, so he is quite competitive...or used to be (or maybe he still is), and definitely not a casual gamer. Not surprisingly, he states that typing on it is an incredible experience. However, he also states that he has not had a single problem gaming with it either. In fact, one of the classes used in TF2 is the Scout, which has a special ability to double jump (how you would do that is by pressing the keyboard twice in rapid succession). However, I was a little concerned about blue switches and rapid succession of keys having to wait for the key to reset. Fortunately, Marin says that double jumping is actually quite easy with blue switches, and comments that the only people who would have trouble with the blue switches are the type of people who play DDR and pound the keys to death. Fortunately, we both don't do that, haha.

So it's been decided. I will be officially buying the Das Keyboard Ultimate Model S, with blue switches







.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Well I just talked to Marin, and asked for his comments on his Filco Tactile Touch Tenkeyless Otaku keyboard, which does use blue switches. Apparently, he and I used to play TF2 competitively, so he is quite competitive...or used to be (or maybe he still is), and definitely not a casual gamer. Not surprisingly, he states that typing on it is an incredible experience. However, he also states that he has not had a single problem gaming with it either. In fact, one of the classes used in TF2 is the Scout, which has a special ability to double jump (how you would do that is by pressing the keyboard twice in rapid succession). However, I was a little concerned about blue switches and rapid succession of keys having to wait for the key to reset. Fortunately, Marin says that double jumping is actually quite easy with blue switches, and comments that the only people who would have trouble with the blue switches are the type of people who play DDR and pound the keys to death. Fortunately, we both don't do that, haha.

So it's been decided. I will be officially buying the Das Keyboard Ultimate Model S, with blue switches







.


lulz.

I don't know how serious he is about TF2, but I competed in the CEVO/TGL tournaments/seasons when the game came out. I'm still friends with a lot of the ESEA-I players including 2 RL friends who swears by Cherry Blacks. One has played for Loaded/I7 and the other has played for eMg, Checksix, and Blight ( Warped and bLackStar if you're curious ). Whaz from QLive Loaded also has stressed how amazing the Cherry Blacks are and I believe sk.Rapha is a 7G user.

Just from personal experience and talking with friends, all the serious and competitive FPS players I know strongly prefer Cherry Blacks. Have they used blues? No, so there is direct comparison. I use linear switch types for gaming. I've tried Tactile clicky/non-clicky for gaming before and while they're still great switches, I can definitely feel that linear switches are more responsive.

As far as rhythm game players go, I don't play them myself so I cannot offer feedback on blacks perform in them. FWIW, the youtube clip is down now but there was one of a guy with a Filco otaku w/blues playing some Korean beatmania game







. Anyways, just giving you another perspective from the Cherry Blacks camp for non-DDR games.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

people play ddr on a keyboard?


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*


people play ddr on a keyboard?










With Cherry Blues too!


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


lulz.

I don't know how serious he is about TF2, but I competed in the CEVO/TGL tournaments/seasons when the game came out. I'm still friends with a lot of the ESEA-I players including 2 RL friends who swears by Cherry Blacks. One has played for Loaded/I7 and the other has played for eMg, Checksix, and Blight ( Warped and bLackStar if you're curious ). Whaz from QLive Loaded also has stressed how amazing the Cherry Blacks are and I believe sk.Rapha is a 7G user.

Just from personal experience and talking with friends, all the serious and competitive FPS players I know strongly prefer Cherry Blacks. Have they used blues? No, so there is direct comparison. I use linear switch types for gaming. I've tried Tactile clicky/non-clicky for gaming before and while they're still great switches, I can definitely feel that linear switches are more responsive.

As far as rhythm game players go, I don't play them myself so I cannot offer feedback on blacks perform in them. FWIW, the youtube clip is down now but there was one of a guy with a Filco otaku w/blues playing some Korean beatmania game







. Anyways, just giving you another perspective from the Cherry Blacks camp for non-DDR games.


OK, he wasn't that serious. The OCN TF2 was going to go to CEVO, but our team members couldn't make the commitment, lol.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


With Cherry Blues too!







Well now, I guess that debunks the whole DDR problem too.


----------



## nijikon5

I think the only true way to know which switch type is best is to go out and try them. I'm making a generalization, but it seems like a lot of the new mech. KB users ( I'm a new user too ) who has used blue switches have only used them and will often only praise them / ignore certain technical flaws that might limit gaming use. I agree that linears, especially blacks arent the best for typing and have no problem admitting that. Anyways, all of this is really useless bickering.

If you have Fry's or Microcenter near you, go out and TRY switch types. Fry's and Microcenter carry the SIIG Heavy Duty Mechnical KB which is Cherry Blues. Fry's also has the 7G which are Cherry Blacks. Also, just a FYI, the Steelseries 6Gv2 is a 100 dollar option if you had considered Blacks. FWIW, if I was in your situation, I'd go with the Browns.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


I think the only true way to know which switch type is best is to go out and try them. I'm making a generalization, but it seems like a lot of the new mech. KB users ( I'm a new user too ) who has used blue switches have only used them and will often only praise them / ignore certain technical flaws that might limit gaming use. I agree that linears, especially blacks arent the best for typing and have no problem admitting that. Anyways, all of this is really useless bickering.

If you have Fry's or Microcenter near you, go out and TRY switch types. Fry's and Microcenter carry the SIIG Heavy Duty Mechnical KB which is Cherry Blues. Fry's also has the 7G which are Cherry Blacks. Also, just a FYI, the Steelseries 6Gv2 is a 100 dollar option if you had considered Blacks. FWIW, if I was in your situation, I'd go with the Browns.


How would you comment on this video?












He even goes so far as to say that paying $100 for the keyboard wasn't worth it vs. his rubber dome...probably doesn't know what he's talking about. The model he is using has brown switches.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


How would you comment on this video?






He even goes so far as to say that paying $100 for the keyboard wasn't worth it vs. his rubber dome...probably doesn't know what he's talking about. The model he is using has brown switches.


I'm sorry, but this guy does not know what he's talking about. He starts off saying "...you can FEEL THE PLASTIC bottoming out, plastic hitting more plastic is more sharper.. so I guess that's where the tactile feel comes from...". Goes on saying " These are the MX Cherry Browns, LESS TACTILE LESS CLICKY than the Blues/Buckling springs." <--- lolwut?

The tactile feel has to do with the tactile bump, nothing to do with you loudly bottoming out. If loudly bottoming out was the tactile, than what would be the point of a tactile bump? Less Tactile, less clicky? How about, it's just as Tactile but is non-clicky, since it is not a clicky type switch. The force that requires to actuate the switch has nothing to do with being more or less tactile, it's just the switch feel due to resistance.

As far as people thinking it's overpriced or their Logitech/Razer/****-co brand rubberdomes being just as good, it's just like people who swear by a switch type. Everyone has their own preference, some people do not like Mech. KBs compared to rubber domes. As long as you're happy with your choice, it's all that matters.


----------



## gordesky1

wow that's all i got too say..

But today my overclock.net abs m1 key was suppose too come in which it did but ony the envelope and it was teared on the corner so i guess they could get the key out, at first i thought it was junk mail but nope it had the order slip for it in side...

so now what am i suppose too do? problee lost 5$ because of some lowlife that took it.. and problee dont even know what its for..


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gordesky1*


wow that's all i got too say..

But today my overclock.net abs m1 key was suppose too come in which it did but ony the envelope and it was teared on the corner so i guess they could get the key out, at first i thought it was junk mail but nope it had the order slip for it in side...

so now what am i suppose too do? problee lost 5$ because of some lowlife that took it.. and problee dont even know what its for..


Is it insured? That ****ing sucks, some people are just scum.


----------



## gordesky1

Im not sure all i know it was free shipping Federal Express Home Delivery $0.00.. from what it says from tank guys.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


I'm sorry, but this guy does not know what he's talking about. He starts off saying "...you can FEEL THE PLASTIC bottoming out, plastic hitting more plastic is more sharper.. so I guess that's where the tactile feel comes from...". Goes on saying " These are the MX Cherry Browns, LESS TACTILE LESS CLICKY than the Blues/Buckling springs." <--- lolwut?

The tactile feel has to do with the tactile bump, nothing to do with you loudly bottoming out. If loudly bottoming out was the tactile, than what would be the point of a tactile bump? Less Tactile, less clicky? How about, it's just as Tactile but is non-clicky, since it is not a clicky type switch. The force that requires to actuate the switch has nothing to do with being more or less tactile, it's just the switch feel due to resistance.

As far as people thinking it's overpriced or their Logitech/Razer/****-co brand rubberdomes being just as good, it's just like people who swear by a switch type. Everyone has their own preference, some people do not like Mech. KBs compared to rubber domes. As long as you're happy with your choice, it's all that matters.


If only I could try these keyboards out...too few of them exist in brick & mortar stores. I do have a Microcenter about 30 minutes away so while my brother went and bought a GTS 250, I went and tried out the Adesso MKB-125B Pro at Microcenter last week, which do utilize blue switches. Can't really comment on how the switches felt because I tried it with the plastic wrap on the keyboard, haha.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


If only I could try these keyboards out...too few of them exist in brick & mortar stores. I do have a Microcenter about 30 minutes away so while my brother went and bought a GTS 250, I went and tried out the Adesso MKB-125B Pro at Microcenter last week, which do utilize blue switches. Can't really comment on how the switches felt because I tried it with the plastic wrap on the keyboard, haha.


That is my problem as well, I am hesitant to spend $100+ on a keyboard when I have not been able to personally try one to see if the benefits (for me) are worth the extra cost.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


That is my problem as well, I am hesitant to spend $100+ on a keyboard when I have not been able to personally try one to see if the benefits (for me) are worth the extra cost.


Well, everyone's different; but if it's any help, I was in the same position. Needless to say I jumped into a pool without knowing if there was water in it or not. Ultimately though, I'm satisfied. I had a few bumps in the road along the way, but all is copacetic now.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

So I had this great idea earlier that if I didn't like my Cherry Brown Tenkeyless Majestouch I could convert it to a Cherry Red by changing to black stems, and create my ultimate keyboard, a space saving Cherry Red.

Then I read more and I'd have to desolder and solder as the Majestouch is metal, not PCB, mounted! Ahhh, well it could be a nice way to learn to solder.


----------



## Marin

Instead of quoting all the previous posts about what switch is good for gaming and such, I'll just post here.

All the switches I've used work the same in the end for me when gaming. I've used blues, blacks, browns and topre. They all feel different but it doesn't take me long to adjust to the different switch. The best switch would be the one that works best for you, not the one that all the competitive players say is better.


----------



## godofdeath

does anyone know how to fix a squeaky delete key on a das?


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kamakazi* 
That is my problem as well, I am hesitant to spend $100+ on a keyboard when I have not been able to personally try one to see if the benefits (for me) are worth the extra cost.

you can buy and return a das keyboard if you dont like it


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
does anyone know how to fix a squeaky delete key on a das?

WD40

Pop the key off; oil it up (the bar inside; not the switch), and test out.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
*The best switch would be the one that works best for you, not the one that all the competitive players say is better.*

This is true. The most important thing will always be what works best for you.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marin*
All the switches I've used work the same in the end for me when gaming. I've used blues, blacks, browns and topre. They all feel different but it doesn't take me long to adjust to the different switch.

However, when we are making recommendations for someone who gaming is important for, I do think it is VERY important to not recommend Cherry's blue switches at all. While lots of people may have no problem gaming on the blues, those of us that do, it's a disaster. The keyboard just isn't even usable. I'm not saying the blue's are just worse for me, I'm saying I literally can not play with them. You try to do movements and half of them don't register, it just does not work at all.

Blues are probably the best (blind choice) option for someone that is going to type a ton, assuming they don't mind breaking out a different keyboard when it comes time to do some gaming if they need to.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
WD40

Pop the key off; oil it up (the bar inside; not the switch), and test out.

which is the bar and which is the switch
pics would help my slowness for today and tomorrow, and sunday


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
which is the bar and which is the switch
pics would help my slowness for today and tomorrow, and sunday











You see that metal bar thing next to the White & Brown (+) symbol looking things?

That's the bar that's squeaking most likely. Needs a bit of WD40 and will quiet down.

I had to do it to my enter key on my Das


----------



## Lawcheehung

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
http://i49.tinypic.com/14obn01.jpg

You see that metal bar thing next to the White & Brown (+) symbol looking things?

That's the bar that's squeaking most likely. Needs a bit of WD40 and will quiet down.

I had to do it to my enter key on my Das

I'm no expert with oiling key switches but I believe that metal bar is only under the larger keys (e.g. enter, spacebar, shifts), and is there for support when you press on a key from the far ends.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lawcheehung* 
I'm no expert with oiling key switches but I believe that metal bar is only under the larger keys (e.g. enter, spacebar, shifts), and is there for support when you press on a key from the far ends.

I do believe it's under the Backspace key as well. Which is as long as the Enter key.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I do believe it's under the Backspace key as well. Which is as long as the Enter key.

All the elongated keys have one.


----------



## godofdeath

ok now i just gotta go find some wd40 which i dont think i got









o how do you pop the keys out?

i use to use a screw driver on my microsoft and apple keyboard but i dont wanna do that to this one


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
ok now i just gotta go find some wd40 which i dont think i got









o how do you pop the keys out?

i use to use a screw driver on my microsoft and apple keyboard but i dont wanna do that to this one

I use a dull knife... to be honest it doesn't make much of a difference. Just try to use something that's flat and not sharp/serrated. So you don't scratch the board.


----------



## crt4life

Thanks for all the help, and glad to see such a big, dedicated community to a niche technology like mechanical keyboards.

I have nearly decided on a Das Professional model S Silent, or perhaps a cherry brown alternative.

While i was browsing around, I've run into a multiple pictures of the Das model S that has basic media keys(volume control, play, pause, etc) along side with most of the function keys, but the display picture of it on the Das main site doesn't have those keys. Can anyone who recently bought a Das from the main site or not, confirm if it will have the media keys?(which i would prefer since I've become very accustomed to them on my current keyboard

And a side question, how much better are cherry blacks for typing compared to your typical rubber membrane board?


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
However, when we are making recommendations for someone who gaming is important for, I do think it is VERY important to not recommend Cherry's blue switches at all. While lots of people may have no problem gaming on the blues, those of us that do, it's a disaster. The keyboard just isn't even usable. I'm not saying the blue's are just worse for me, I'm saying I literally can not play with them. You try to do movements and half of them don't register, it just does not work at all.

Blues are probably the best (blind choice) option for someone that is going to type a ton, assuming they don't mind breaking out a different keyboard when it comes time to do some gaming if they need to.

All the more reason why I wish I could try different keyboards out.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crt4life* 
Thanks for all the help, and glad to see such a big, dedicated community to a niche technology like mechanical keyboards.

I have nearly decided on a Das Professional model S Silent, or perhaps a cherry brown alternative.

While i was browsing around, I've run into a multiple pictures of the Das model S that has basic media keys(volume control, play, pause, etc) along side with most of the function keys, but the display picture of it on the Das main site doesn't have those keys. Can anyone who recently bought a Das from the main site or not, confirm if it will have the media keys?(which i would prefer since I've become very accustomed to them on my current keyboard

And a side question, how much better are cherry blacks for typing compared to your typical rubber membrane board?

Ironically, Das removed the media keys due to popular demand. Apparently they got tons of emails complaining about them. All the new models should not have any media keys.

As for blacks vs rubber dome, they are better for typing of course, but it's not really like I can say they're "4" better or something like that. How much better is purely a matter of judgment, but generally people who have used mechanicals describe rubber dome's as feeling "mushy". You will not get this with the blacks at all, and it will be a better typing experience. Even better for typing are tactile keyswitches, as the little tactile bump feels right when typing for some reason. I personally think it's annoying while gaming, but it shouldn't actually cause problems unless you have the blue switches.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

By the way, I'm curious as to what you mean by your movements not registering. Is it that it's hard to press, or the keyboard doesn't register key presses. Because if it doesn't register key presses, then why is it easy to type? If it doesn't register movement while gaming, wouldn't it not be able to register what keys you press, therefore making it harder to type?


----------



## godofdeath

hm why is it when i type with the DAS that when i hit delete sometimes it deletes the WHOLE word or the whole block of letters like it'll delete "sadfsdf" and not just one letter at a time say the "f" in sadfsdf?


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
By the way, I'm curious as to what you mean by your movements not registering. Is it that it's hard to press, or the keyboard doesn't register key presses. Because if it doesn't register key presses, then why is it easy to type? If it doesn't register movement while gaming, wouldn't it not be able to register what keys you press, therefore making it harder to type?

From the OP of this topic:

Quote:

Cherry MX Blue switches are one of the best switches for typing. The tactile bump can easily be felt, and the resistance is about average.

Although many people find them just fine for gaming, *some don't like the fact that the release point is above the actuation point.* This can cause some trouble with double-tapping if you don't normally release the key completely.
Some people don't like what I've bolded. It doesn't bug everyone but some people do not care for it.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
By the way, I'm curious as to what you mean by your movements not registering. Is it that it's hard to press, or the keyboard doesn't register key presses. Because if it doesn't register key presses, then why is it easy to type? If it doesn't register movement while gaming, wouldn't it not be able to register what keys you press, therefore making it harder to type?

With blue switches you have to lift the key all the way up before you can press it down again. With typing, most people do this anyways. With gaming, lots of people don't. Usually it would be if you were stopping moving, and would suddenly start again because of something you see, or something of that matter. Really anything where you're switching back and forth quickly could have problems, like if you are jumping a bunch real quick. I also see "double tapping" mentioned a lot, but really I don't see that too often in games.


----------



## TwoCables

I apologize for this big post, but I can't resist providing my input.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *crt4life* 
Man, I've been having a hell of ahard time trying to decide which type of mechanical keybaord is right for me.

Right now i use a budget logitech keyboard with rubber membrane, so im sure any type of mech keyboard will be a step up.

My main use will be for gaming(fps in particular) and generally people will be saying cherry mx blacks switches are best for it, but i really think i would enjoy using a tactile keyboard(bucking spring or blue key)...but in reality i have no idea how any feel, and no legit stores anywhere close to try some out.

I would really like to hear some more opinions from people on gaming experinces with bucking spring and cherry blue.

Or should i jsut stick with majority are saying that black is best for gaming?...or maybe a balance of both sides with brown...ughh i cant decide!









Before I say anything, it's actually _Buckling_ Springs because the spring buckles under the pressure of the keypress.

Anyway, the best thing might be to do as much research on the different switch types as you can and then pick the one that your gut instinct tells you that you would like the most.

So I recommend studying the 10-page OP of this thread some more and also using YouTube to find various videos of people typing on their mechanical keyboards. I think that the more videos you watch, the closer you will get to confidently choosing a switch type (and perhaps a keyboard too).

But generally speaking, the Cherry MX Blacks are preferred by "professional", or "competitive" gamers who take it very, very seriously - they're the ones who go to great lengths to make sure that everything is "perfect". But for the rest of the world, it is very possible to consider yourself a "gamer" and still have a very strong preference for the Cherry MX Blues, Browns, the Buckling Springs, capacitive switches, or any of the Alps or Alps Copies. We even actually have a few people here on Overclock.net who very strongly prefer the Cherry MX Blues for gaming.

So have respect for all of the recommendations, but the final decision is yours. After all, you're the one who's going to be using the keyboard!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
So is linear good? I watched a Youtube video on a person typing on a Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional 2, where he said that the keyboard was almost 100% linear, and he loved the typing experience. Black switches, however, offer the most linear experience, but a lot of people said that they are horrible to type on.

Blues aren't 100% linear, however, yet many other people say that they offer the best typing experience.

So now, I'm confused over whether blue's, black's, or brown's offer the best typing experience...or is it that the HHKB Pro 2 uses godlike Topre Capacitive Switches, which are better than browns, blues, and black's?

The Topre Capacitive Switches have less resistance than the Cherry MX Blacks (which is why the Cherry MX Reds are called "the poor man's Topre Capacitive Switch", or something to that effect). You see, the reason why the Cherry MX Blacks are considered to be the "worst" mechanical switch for typing is because they have about the stiffest resistance: they require about the most force to press down.

So the reason why the Cherry MX Blacks are preferred by many gamers (especially competitive, professional gamers) is because this "heavier" spring makes it harder to end up with accidental keypresses during very intense gaming moments where the gamer is almost in a state of panic. Plus, the reset point and actuation point are nearly identical which is said to be the best for extremely fast double-tapping.

However, this doesn't mean that the Cherry MX Blacks are the only choice for gaming; it's still very possible to prefer the Cherry MX Blues, Browns, Buckling Springs, Capacitive, Alps, Alps Copies and even rubber domes.

So ultimately, the best switch type depends on you. But it's still best to listen to recommendations in addition to any research you do.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I can't imagine how linear keys could be considered "bad" for typing. There's absolutely nothing bad about typing on linear keys.

Typing on tactile keys is awesome, and a lot more enjoyable then linear. However, typing on linear keys is "normal" as opposed to "bad". Some of you guys make it sound like typing on linear is worse then a rubber dome







.

It's all relative: I mean, it's that in comparison to other switch types, the Cherry MX Blacks are the "worst" of the bunch for typing. Unfortunately, most of the people who say that the Cherry MX Blacks are the worst for typing assume that everyone understands that they're just comparing it to other mechanical switch types. But they're also assuming that everyone understands that even the Cherry MX Blacks can be strongly preferred by some for typing.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
How would you comment on this video?






He even goes so far as to say that paying $100 for the keyboard wasn't worth it vs. his rubber dome...probably doesn't know what he's talking about. The model he is using has brown switches.

I think I'll make a list of things he said and what they actually mean:

In the first 5-6 seconds of the video, he says that he's only had the keyboard for "about a day".







(I'm rolling my eyes at him for not giving the keyboard a chance)
_"You feel plastic bottoming out"_ means _"I don't know what I'm talking about"_
_"so I guess that's where the tactile feeling comes from"_ means _"I don't know what I'm talking about. I should have done some research before ordering this keyboard"_
_"these are actually less tactile, less clicky than the Cherry MX Blues or the Buckling Springs"_ means _"I don't know what I'm talking about. I should have said that the Cherry MX Browns are Tactile, but non-clicky among other things"_
_"You can definitely feel the difference between [the Cherry MX Browns] and membrane keyboards"_ means _"I don't know what I'm talking about: when I said membrane keyboards, I meant to say rubber dome keyboards. In other words, I really don't know what I'm talking about even though I spent this large sum of money on a keyboard"_
_"The USB hub on the side has proven kinda useless to me because I don't wanna cut down my transfer speeds when I already have a hub [on the top of my CM 690 II]"_ means _"I should have done some research before buying this keyboard; I bought this keyboard blindly and now I'm regretting it. I could have found a better keyboard if I had just taken the time to do some research before making a purchase."_
He states that because this keyboard has full NKRO, it "quite easily" passes that test where you hold down both Shift keys while simultaneously typing "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog". But this isn't due to having full NKRO. For a quick example, the Logitech G11 was shown to pass that test for each and every G11 owner. Does that mean it has full NKRO? Nope.







But what does it mean when a keyboard passes that test? Heh. Nothing. _"Hey I can type 'the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog' while simultaneously holding down both Shift keys! Isn't that awesome?"_
He doesn't understand why somebody would want a keyboard that has blank keys even though they _never_ need to look at their keyboard while using it. He doesn't think he should have to pay more for "less keys".
His very last words of the video are, _"and again this is a Das keyboard Professional S model Silent... uh, Cherry MX Blues."_










Yeah, this guy definitely doesn't have a clue as to what he's talking about. In fact, after listening to him talk, I get the impression that he's mentally slow or something. But that wouldn't surprise me seeing as how he went and ordered this keyboard while not having a clue about what he was getting into. I think one of the biggest things that sticks out to me is that he gets this keyboard and then complains that the USB hub is useless to him. Sigh... _"If the USB hub is useless to you, then you shouldn't have ordered this keyboard!"_

That is all.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
Instead of quoting all the previous posts about what switch is good for gaming and such, I'll just post here.

All the switches I've used work the same in the end for me when gaming. I've used blues, blacks, browns and topre. They all feel different but it doesn't take me long to adjust to the different switch. The best switch would be the one that works best for you, not the one that all the competitive players say is better.

Exactly. I think Manyak would agree that nobody can tell somebody else exactly which switch type to go with. The best we can do is educate those who are asking as best as we can concerning each switch type so that they are better equipped to make their decision instead of just blindly buying a keyboard like SJChango99 did in that so-called review of his Das Model S Professional Silent.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
This is true. The most important thing will always be what works best for you.

However, when we are making recommendations for someone who gaming is important for, I do think it is VERY important to not recommend Cherry's blue switches at all. While lots of people may have no problem gaming on the blues, those of us that do, it's a disaster. The keyboard just isn't even usable. I'm not saying the blue's are just worse for me, I'm saying I literally can not play with them. You try to do movements and half of them don't register, it just does not work at all.

Blues are probably the best (blind choice) option for someone that is going to type a ton, assuming they don't mind breaking out a different keyboard when it comes time to do some gaming if they need to.

But due to the fact that there are people who have a strong preference for gaming on the Cherry MX Blues and also due to the fact that there are those who have no problem gaming on them, we still need to tell the people who are asking that they need to consider all of the switch types and then make their decision on the one that they feel they would like the most.

I mean, don't get me wrong: I know that in comparison to most of the other switch types, the Cherry MX Blues are the "worst" for gaming and the "best" for typing. But there are still people who have a strong preference for them and so therefore I don't want to tell somebody to avoid the Cherry MX Blues just because they mainly use their computer for gaming. I mean, what if they end up being one of those people who prefer the MX Blues, y'know?


----------



## fssbzz

^ the wall of mechanical keyboard


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But due to the fact that there are people who have a strong preference for gaming on the Cherry MX Blues and also due to the fact that there are those who have no problem gaming on them, we still need to tell the people who are asking that they need to consider all of the switch types and then make their decision on the one that they feel they would like the most.

I mean, don't get me wrong: I know that in comparison to most of the other switch types, the Cherry MX Blues are the "worst" for gaming and the "best" for typing. But there are still people who have a strong preference for them and so therefore I don't want to tell somebody to avoid the Cherry MX Blues just because they mainly use their computer for gaming. I mean, what if they end up being one of those people who prefer the MX Blues, y'know?

My point is that even if you like blues better anyways, it's unlikely you'll be specifically disappointed with browns or blacks, at least for gaming. It's very possible that you will be disappointed with the blues though. This makes blacks and browns a "safer" choice, especially when it's for someone who is going to take a blind step and just order something off the internet.


----------



## Lawcheehung

So if cherry blues are great for typing (love or hate relationship with gaming) and cherry blacks for gaming, then it's safe to say browns are a perfect balance between the two!


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
With blue switches you have to lift the key all the way up before you can press it down again. With typing, most people do this anyways. With gaming, lots of people don't. Usually it would be if you were stopping moving, and would suddenly start again because of something you see, or something of that matter. Really anything where you're switching back and forth quickly could have problems, like if you are jumping a bunch real quick. I also see "double tapping" mentioned a lot, but really I don't see that too often in games.

Well currently, I am using my G15, and I'm pretty sure I lift the key all the way up before I press down on it again.

Of course, that's not saying much because I'm not using a mechanical keyboard, haha.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lawcheehung* 
So if cherry blues are great for typing (love or hate relationship with gaming) and cherry blacks for gaming, then it's safe to say browns are a perfect balance between the two!

Yes, I've realized that, but the thing is...I really like the clickity clack of a keyboard with blue switches. It's like music to my ears.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crt4life* 
Thanks for all the help, and glad to see such a big, dedicated community to a niche technology like mechanical keyboards.

I have nearly decided on a Das Professional model S Silent, or perhaps a cherry brown alternative.

While i was browsing around, I've run into a multiple pictures of the Das model S that has basic media keys(volume control, play, pause, etc) along side with most of the function keys, but the display picture of it on the Das main site doesn't have those keys. Can anyone who recently bought a Das from the main site or not, confirm if it will have the media keys?(which i would prefer since I've become very accustomed to them on my current keyboard

And a side question, how much better are cherry blacks for typing compared to your typical rubber membrane board?

Any Model S ordered from Das' website will have the two Windows keys (no media keys). But never fear: there is software (that doesn't even have to run in the background) that can allow you to customize your keyboard any way you want.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
By the way, I'm curious as to what you mean by your movements not registering. Is it that it's hard to press, or the keyboard doesn't register key presses. Because if it doesn't register key presses, then why is it easy to type? If it doesn't register movement while gaming, wouldn't it not be able to register what keys you press, therefore making it harder to type?

My keyboard has the Cherry MX Blues, so I'll try to describe this:

When I *slowly* and very-carefully press a key down just to point where it clicks and then _hold_ it there and then ever-so-slightly let the key back up, I can control when it actuates (and gives me a constant stream of characters), or when it isn't actuating. As I'm pressing the key down, the point where it begins to actuate is the moment where it clicks. As I slowly and carefully let the key back up, the point where it stops actuating is physically higher (vertically speaking) than the point where it actuated.

But now as I slowly and carefully release the key to the point where it stops and then hold it there, I can begin pressing it back down again and get it to start actuating again! But here's the kicker: it's underneath the point where it clicks and it's also underneath the tactile bump (again, vertically speaking). So I can hold the key down just enough to where it's just barely past the click and the tactile bump and then continue letting it go up and down to get the key to actuate and then to stop it without ever feeling the tactile bump or hearing the click. The area of the vertical travel that I am describing is perfectly linear.

So for extremely competitive or professional gaming, this is no good because those two points of actuation and release are at different points in the vertical travel. Plus, the best way to get a confident double-tap is to let the key come all the way back up, above the tactile bump and the point where it clicks (that is, unless you spend days upon days practicing a technique where you always hold the key down underneath the bump and click, but that would be difficult and extremely inconvenient and impractical).

But for casual gamers like me, it doesn't matter. In fact, I love the way the Cherry MX Blues work for me for gaming: I get a satisfying click and a satisfying tactile response.







But I'm not competitive, nor do I take gaming seriously. I just play without caring about technique or anything (although I do position my keyboard and mouse so that it's ergonomic).

But for competitive typing, the Cherry MX Blues are probably about the best. After all, every single keystroke is a single keystroke, and each keystroke always allows the key to come all the way back up.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
hm why is it when i type with the DAS that when i hit delete sometimes it deletes the WHOLE word or the whole block of letters like it'll delete "sadfsdf" and not just one letter at a time say the "f" in sadfsdf?

What software does this happen in? Or does it happen everywhere, including Notepad?


----------



## godofdeath

it happens when im using firefox i was playing some ttyping test speed game on facebook using firefox and it happens

typing on the forums with ff it happens


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
My point is that even if you like blues better anyways, it's unlikely you'll be specifically disappointed with browns or blacks, at least for gaming. It's very possible that you will be disappointed with the blues though. This makes blacks and browns a "safer" choice, especially when it's for someone who is going to take a blind step and just order something off the internet.

But that doesn't mean we should tell somebody to avoid the Cherry MX Blues or to simply not mention them just because their primary use is going to be gaming. I mean, why limit somebody's options when there is always a chance that they could end up being one of those people who very strongly prefer the Cherry MX Blues?

Of course, this applies far less to people who are very competitive or professional gamers.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lawcheehung* 
So if cherry blues are great for typing (love or hate relationship with gaming) and cherry blacks for gaming, then it's safe to say browns are a perfect balance between the two!

The Cherry MX Browns are more or less the safest choice.







I actually almost decided upon the Cherry MX Browns, but I wasn't satisfied with settling on them just because they were the safest choice. I wanted to be absolutely sure I was going to have no regrets and so I just kept doing research until had no doubts.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
Well currently, I am using my G15, and I'm pretty sure I lift the key all the way up before I press down on it again.

Of course, that's not saying much because I'm not using a mechanical keyboard, haha.

Yes, I've realized that, but the thing is...I really like the clickity clack of a keyboard with blue switches. It's like music to my ears.

It's beginning to sound like the best switch type for you will either be the Cherry MX Blues or the Browns. Or perhaps even a keyboard with the Buckling Springs or the clicky Alps (which I think are the White Alps). I was on the fence between the Cherry MX Blues, Browns and the Buckling Springs, so I kept watching YouTube videos and re-reading the 10-page OP of this thread until I finally noticed myself having a preference. What did it for me was the YouTube videos: every single time I heard a keyboard that had the Cherry MX Blues, I just kinda fell in love. I liked the sound of the Buckling Springs too, but not as much as the Cherry MX Blues!

So yeah, the name of the game is to do research and follow your gut instinct (but don't jump into it too quickly like that guy on YouTube did who made that review that you asked us about).


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
it happens when im using firefox i was playing some ttyping test speed game on facebook using firefox and it happens

typing on the forums with ff it happens

How about with other things like Notepad?


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
How about with other things like Notepad?

haven't tried and won't try til tomorrow, i'll let you know then

ac is on and i dont want to use the desktop lol


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
The Cherry MX Browns are more or less the safest choice.







I actually almost decided upon the Cherry MX Browns, but I wasn't satisfied with settling on them just because they were the safest choice. I wanted to be absolutely sure I was going to have no regrets and so I just kept doing research until had no doubts.

This is exactly why I can't decide between browns and blues. What happens if I was actually comfortable gaming with blues and, on top of that, I have the functionality of one of the best switches for gaming? Again, I wish I had the ability to test both blue and brown switches before I make the decision.

I mean I could return the Das Keyboard if the switches weren't exactly right, but that would mean I would lose my student discount.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
This is exactly why I can't decide between browns and blues. What happens if I was actually comfortable gaming with blues and, on top of that, I have the functionality of one of the best switches for gaming. Again, I wish I had the ability to test both blue and brown switches before I make the decision.

I mean I could return the Das Keyboard if the switches weren't exactly right, but that would mean I would lose my student discount.

what do you mean by losing the student discount?

because you have to pay the back and forth shipping?


----------



## Lawcheehung

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
This is exactly why I can't decide between browns and blues. What happens if I was actually comfortable gaming with blues and, on top of that, I have the functionality of one of the best switches for gaming. Again, I wish I had the ability to test both blue and brown switches before I make the decision.

I mean I could return the Das Keyboard if the switches weren't exactly right, but that would mean I would lose my student discount.

If you can't actually go out to your local computer outlets to test out the key switches, keep on listening to audio clips / watching videos and just *'imagine'* what it would feel like (it's actually not too difficult! xD) then again, you seem like you really want the _*ooh-so-clicky*_ blues!









cherry blue audio clip 1


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
what do you mean by losing the student discount?

because you have to pay the back and forth shipping?

The student discount is a one-time thing. You apply the code the first time, press confirm order, and then it's lost. I don't think you can reapply the code once it is already applied.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
The student discount is a one-time thing. You apply the code the first time, press confirm order, and then it's lost. I don't think you can reapply the code once it is already applied.

yes i know

but i dont get what you mean, you said you would lose it by returning it, can't you ask the people at DAS for an exchange to a blue instead?

didn't it say you can do exchanges and returns

or did i read it wrong and it's returns only


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
haven't tried and won't try til tomorrow, i'll let you know then

ac is on and i dont want to use the desktop lol

Alright. You know I'll be here.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
This is exactly why I can't decide between browns and blues. What happens if I was actually comfortable gaming with blues and, on top of that, I have the functionality of one of the best switches for gaming? Again, I wish I had the ability to test both blue and brown switches before I make the decision.

I mean I could return the Das Keyboard if the switches weren't exactly right, but that would mean I would lose my student discount.

Then I recommend watching as many YouTube videos as you can. Just keep watching and keep performing new searches with different search criteria. Search on specific switch types and specific keyboards and just keep watching. After a while, you will find that you have a pretty clear idea of which switch is right for you and perhaps even which _keyboard_ is right!

This is what sealed the deal for me. I mean, I just watched a few dozen videos and before long, I pretty much felt like I already knew how each switch feels. There are several videos of people actually going to great lengths to visually demonstrate as best as they can what the switch feels like - such as by slowly pressing a key over and over or something.

But up until I watched any videos, I was actually getting depressed because I couldn't try any mechanical keyboards before buying. I mean, I felt like I was screwed.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lawcheehung* 
If you can't actually go out to your local computer outlets to test out the key switches, keep on listening to audio clips / watching videos and just *'imagine'* what it would feel like (it's actually not too difficult! xD) then again, you seem like you really want the _*ooh-so-clicky*_ blues!









cherry blue audio clip 1





This.

Just keep watching one video after another. Here are some search criteria ideas to get you started (but be sure to come up with your own in addition to these):

cherry mx blue
cherry mx brown
cherry mx black
buckling spring
topre
topre realforce
mechanical keyboard
filco
filco majestouch
majestouch
unicomp customizer
unicomp spacesaver
ibm model m
das model s
Etc., etc. These are all in lower case just because search criteria isn't case-sensitive.

As you perform these searches and watch the videos, you will see things that give you ideas for more search criteria such as certain things in the video descriptions, or certain video results in the "Suggestions" that are beneath a video (on a video's page).

After a while, you should have a very clear idea of what you would prefer!

*Note:* some videos poorly represent the sound of certain keyboards, so this increases the importance of watching as many as you can.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
yes i know

but i dont get what you mean, you said you would lose it by returning it, can't you ask the people at DAS for an exchange to a blue instead?

didn't it say you can do exchanges and returns

or did i read it wrong and it's returns only

I'm actually thinking of buying the blue's...but I should look into it.

And apparently they do accept exchanges. So if I do find the blues uncomfortable to game with after about a week, then I shall exchange for the browns.

Also, does anyone know where those audio clips for the different switches are on geekhack.org would be?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
I'm actually thinking of buying the blue's...but I should look into it.

And apparently they do accept exchanges. So if I do find the blues uncomfortable to game with after about a week, then I shall exchange for the browns.

Also, does anyone know where those audio clips for the different switches are on geekhack.org would be?

Using YouTube would be better because seeing several different mechanical keyboards in use will quickly give you a clearer understanding of what it's like to use them.


----------



## fssbzz

hey so for gaming 50% and typing 50% get brown switches will be better?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
hey so for gaming 50% and typing 50% get brown switches will be better?

Probably. At least, that's the general consensus. But it's still important to try to figure out which switch you would like the most.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Using YouTube would be better because seeing several different mechanical keyboards in use will quickly give you a clearer understanding of what it's like to use them.

Lol, I've been doing that for the past three days. For brown switches, the only person to actually have a Das Model S silent (both professional and ultimate) is that guy who made the misinformed review. So to make up for that, I've been watching videos of Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch keyboards, with the brown switches. I just can't get over how awesome the blue switches sound though.

One thing though. I did apply to the United States Military Academy for next year's class. If I get in, and when I get to bring this keyboard into my barracks, I'm pretty sure my cadre will get really annoyed with the blue switches, haha.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Probably. At least, that's the general consensus. But it's still important to try to figure out which switch you would like the most.

so black switches from deck are 45G or 60G?
i just prefer 45G..i still deciding which one to get... Filco Brown NKRO or Deck Black or Filco Black


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
I'm actually thinking of buying the blue's...but I should look into it.

And apparently they do accept exchanges. So if I do find the blues uncomfortable to game with after about a week, then I shall exchange for the browns.

Also, does anyone know where those audio clips for the different switches are on geekhack.org would be?

hey
if you want i can trade with you to try out switches lol
i wont mind trying blues


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
Lol, I've been doing that for the past three days. For brown switches, the only person to actually have a Das Model S silent (both professional and ultimate) is that guy who made the misinformed review. So to make up for that, I've been watching videos of Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch keyboards, with the brown switches. I just can't get over how awesome the blue switches sound though.

One thing though. I did apply to the United States Military Academy for next year's class. If I get in, and when I get to bring this keyboard into my barracks, I'm pretty sure my cadre will get really annoyed with the blue switches, haha.

The click is much quieter than it seems based on most of the videos.

After replying here though, I will try to find some videos of a person using the Model S Silent.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
so black switches from deck are 45G or 60G?
i just prefer 45G..i still deciding which one to get... Filco Brown NKRO or Deck Black or Filco Black

60g. I mean, the Cherry MX Blacks are the Cherry MX Blacks no matter which keyboard they're in.









If you think you'll prefer the "lighter" springs in the Cherry MX Browns, then try to find a keyboard you think you'd like the most that has the Browns.

But how do you know you prefer 45g?


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
hey
if you want i can trade with you to try out switches lol
i wont mind trying blues

Haha, I might. But first, can you post a comment of your experiences with gaming/typing on brown switches. I am more concerned with how well they type because I'm pretty sure they're good enough for gaming. I am relieved that they're still tactile, so I'll be able to know which keys I hit.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 

60g. I mean, the Cherry MX Blacks are the Cherry MX Blacks no matter which keyboard they're on.









If you think you'll prefer the "lighter" springs in the Cherry MX Browns, then try to find a keyboard you think you'd like the most that has the Browns.

But how do you know you prefer 45g?

i still on ABS M1 right now. i want lighter one. so i assume 45G will be nice for me?
so what does 40G~60G mean in the OP guide?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
Haha, I might. But first, can you post a comment of your experiences with gaming/typing on brown switches. I am more concerned with how well they type because I'm pretty sure they're good enough for gaming. I am relieved that they're still tactile, so I'll be able to know which keys I hit.

Then watch more videos.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
i still on ABS M1 right now. i want lighter one. so i assume 45G will be nice for me?
so what does 40G~60G mean in the OP guide?

"40-80g overall" means that throughout the entire key travel from the top to bottom, it starts at 40g and ends at 80g, but the point at which it actuates during this downward key travel is at 60g (halfway down).


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Then watch more videos.









"40-80g overall" means that throughout the entire key travel from the top to bottom, it starts at 40g and ends at 80g, but the point at which it actuates during this downward key travel is at 60g (halfway down).

so do you think i will like brown better then black move from ABS M1


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
Haha, I might. But first, can you post a comment of your experiences with gaming/typing on brown switches. I am more concerned with how well they type because I'm pretty sure they're good enough for gaming. I am relieved that they're still tactile, so I'll be able to know which keys I hit.

sorry can't due to the fact that i just got the keyboard yesterday, and I've more or less been cleaning/studying for my class and banned myself from the desktop where its plugged to.

currently on my desktop

but from the few times i went to play facebook typing games i find that it is quicker for me to type on but also easier to hit a key next to me since i guess you don't have to bottom out the key next to the one you are pressing may get pressed also

so someone else has to chime in


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
so do you think i will like brown better then black move from ABS M1

You're really the only one who is capable of knowing the answer to this. I mean, it sounds to me like you would but what do you think? All that really matters is what you think.

I also recommend watching several YouTube videos if you have time to get a clearer idea of what switch you might like the most.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
You're really the only one who is capable of knowing the answer to this. I mean, it sounds to me like you would but what do you think? All that really matters is what you think.

I also recommend watching several YouTube videos if you have time to get a clearer idea of what switch you might like the most.

lol i watch alot alot of videos. i like the brown switches sound. i just cant feel the switch tru the video.
i will probably type alot for my next semester, i got college writing, public speaking, AutoCAD revit class.
so is really hard for me to decide which keyboard should go.. i game alot too. do home work alot too.
Deck or Filco LOL


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
lol i watch alot alot of videos. i like the brown switches sound. i just cant feel the switch tru the video.
i will probably type alot for my next semester, i got college writing, public speaking, AutoCAD revit class.

Ah, so if the click of the Cherry MX Blues adds just a bit too much sound, then a keyboard that uses the Cherry MX Browns might be the best choice - especially considering that they're tactile!


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Ah, so if the click of the Cherry MX Blues adds just a bit too much sound, then a keyboard that uses the Cherry MX Browns might be the best choice - especially considering that they're tactile!

i tried the Blue switches from DAS before but i don't like it, so i return it.
don't like the clicky feel.
anyway, can you do a simple explain for me with tactile? i don't understand what tactile mean..my english suck.
thanks


----------



## fssbzz

ooh no.. i got a feeling that a big wall is coming..lol


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
i tried the Blue switches from DAS before but i don't like it, so i return it.
don't like the clicky feel.
anyway, can you do a simple explain for me with tactile? i don't understand what tactile mean..my english suck.
thanks

A picture is worth a thousand words.









http://translate.google.com/translat...&sl=auto&tl=en (scroll down a bunch)

They have 1 flash animation, and it's of the Cherry MX Blue switch:


http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech/cherry_mx_click.swf

*Right-Click and Select "Play" to start movie.

(or click the text in the top of this animation to see an even bigger version)

Study this animation and also study their real photos as well as their drawings of the four Cherry MX Switch types that they show. You can see what makes the Cherry MX Blacks linear (non-tactile and non-clicky), and you can see what gives the Browns, Whites and Blues their tactile response.

This "tactile bump" can be described like this: imagine pressing a key downward in slow-motion. For tactile switches like the Cherry MX Browns, Blues and Whites (and the Alps Copies in the ABS M1), there is a bit of resistance at the beginning of the key stroke as you try to push it downward. Then, suddenly, it gives way and then you get past this bump and the remainder of the keystroke is linear because there's nothing else but the spring to provide resistance.

Some tactile switches have a more pronounced tactile bump than others, and the pictures on the page I linked above do an excellent job of showing why these differences exist. for example:



















From left to right, it's the Cherry MX Black, Cherry MX White/Clear, Cherry MX Brown, and the Cherry MX Blue. The picture beneath is, of course, a diagram representing the Cherry MX Brown.

But again, visit the page I linked and study the pictures. After all, a picture is worth a thousand words.

Unfortunately, I don't have a source that shows the Alps Copies in the ABS M1. Although, I imagine there is some similar structure to it that gives it its tactile, but non-clicky characteristics.


----------



## fssbzz

so the black doesn't have any tactile feeling?
because the pictures shows like it is just straight down....and the graph too...
and thanks for that super nice explanation. TwoCables. i appreciate alot!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
so the black doesn't have any tactile feeling?
because the pictures shows like it is just straight down....and the graph too...
and thanks for that super nice explanation. TwoCables. i appreciate alot!

That is correct; there is no click at all on the blacks.

Also TwoCables, I mostly agree with you about mentioning blues. I have seen people who have posted asking for a gaming keyboard recommended blues though, I'm more trying to discourage that. Logic would dictate that if you can use blue switches, blacks actually wont be any better for you, since you're probably going to lift the finger up all the way anyways. I guess we could test that theory though.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
so the black doesn't have any tactile feeling?
because the pictures shows like it is just straight down....and the graph too...
and thanks for that super nice explanation. TwoCables. i appreciate alot!

You're very welcome!

The Cherry MX Blacks do indeed have absolutely no tactile bump. In other words, they are 100% linear. So we say that the Cherry MX Blacks are "non-tactile and non-clicky". Going further, the Cherry MX Browns are "tactile, but non-clicky". Finally, the Cherry MX Blues "are both tactile and clicky".

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
That is correct; there is no click at all on the blacks.

Also TwoCables, I mostly agree with you about mentioning blues. I have seen people who have posted asking for a gaming keyboard recommended blues though, I'm more trying to discourage that. Logic would dictate that if you can use blue switches, blacks actually wont be any better for you, since you're probably going to lift the finger up all the way anyways. I guess we could test that theory though.

I agree. I get annoyed when I see people just recommending nothing but the Cherry MX Blues. That's where I like to swoop in and say _"No. That's just one option out of many to be considered..."_


----------



## fssbzz

so the ABS M1 have tactile? alps switch?
the no tactile sound nice to me.
what's the benefit of having the tactile one? so u know u hit the key with right amount of strength?
so i see Deck carry 2 kinds of keyboard. 1 is linear and 1 tactile, so the tactile is with black switches?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
so the ABS M1 have tactile? alps switch?
the no tactile sound nice to me.
what's the benefit of having the tactile one? so u know u hit the key with right amount of strength?
so i see Deck carry 2 kinds of keyboard. 1 is linear and 1 tactile, so the tactile is with black switches?

The ABS M1 has "Black Alps Copies". These switches are "tactile, but non-clicky" and have a force of 60g (this is the force at the point of actuation).

The Cherry MX Blacks are "non-tactile, non-clicky". They're linear (refer to the pictures).

The benefit of the tactile response is a bit hard to describe, but it feels great for typing. It feels more precise! Also, the Cherry MX Blues are said to have a more precise and crisper tactile feeling than the Cherry MX Browns.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
The ABS M1 has "Black Alps Copies". These switches are "tactile, but non-clicky" and have a force of 60g (this is the force at the point of actuation).

The Cherry MX Blacks are "non-tactile, non-clicky". They're linear (refer to the pictures).

The benefit of the tactile response is a bit hard to describe, but it feels great for typing. It feels more precise!

ok. i made my decision, i will go for filco brown switches. i type alot too for my college assignment.
i really wonder why if the black doesn't have the tactile thingy, but i need more force then brown switches.
THANKS again to 2Cables, u been a great great help for me.


----------



## crt4life

Are there any rough estimates out there that determine the required force for activation/bottom out of a typical rubber keyboard? Just trying to get an even better idea of how it'll all feel,


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
ok. i made my decision, i will go for filco brown switches. i type alot too for my college assignment.
i really wonder why if the black doesn't have the tactile thingy, but i need more force then brown switches.
THANKS again to 2Cables, u been a great great help for me.
















But the switches in the ABS M1 are "Black Alps Copies". They are said to have an actuation force of 60g and are also said to be tactile, but non-clicky. In other words, they are like the Cherry MX Browns, but require more force than the Browns at the point of actuation. We might say that they're probably similar to the Cherry MX Blacks, except that the Black Alps Copies are tactile instead of linear.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But the switches in the ABS M1 are "Black Alps Copies". They are said to have an actuation force of 60g and are also said to be tactile, but non-clicky. In other words, they are like the Cherry MX Browns, but require more force than the Browns at the point of actuation. We might say that they're probably similar to the Cherry MX Blacks, except that the Black Alps Copies are tactile instead of linear.

so the tactile from Deck..is the black alps like ABS M1 too?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
so the tactile from Deck..is the black alps like ABS M1 too?

The Deck keyboards use Cherry MX switches. I think the two that they're using for all their boards are the Cherry MX Clears/Whites and the Cherry MX Blacks. But don't quote me on that: I am not 100% sure. But I *do* know that Deck uses switches from the Cherry MX series.

The ABS M1 has the Black Alps Copies (which are also known as "***kas", which I guess is a brand name or something).


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
The Deck keyboards use Cherry MX switches. I think the two that they're using for all their boards are the Cherry MX Clears/Whites and the Cherry MX Blacks. But don't quote me on that: I am not 100% sure. But I *do* know that Deck uses switches from the Cherry MX series.

The ABS M1 has the Black Alps Copies (which are also known as "***kas", which I guess is a brand name or something).

well i just buy filco brown first..try it out..if i really don't like it, i would just return it and try the Deck.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
well i just buy filco brown first..try it out..if i really don't like it, i would just return it and try the Deck.

From where will you buy the Tactile Touch? I mean, if you buy it from Elite Keyboards, then be warned that they have a very strict return policy.

Also, I found out that the Deck keyboards use the Cherry MX Clear/White switches in their Tactile models, and the Cherry MX Blacks in their Linear models.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
From where will you buy the Tactile Touch? I mean, if you buy it from Elite Keyboards, then be warned that they have a very strict return policy.

Also, I found out that the Deck keyboards use the Cherry MX Clear/White switches in their Tactile models, and the Cherry MX Blacks in their Linear models.

anywhere else you recommend me to buy the filco?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
anywhere else you recommend me to buy the filco?

I personally don't know of any other places besides Elite Keyboards.


----------



## fssbzz

if like that..i will just buy the deck first.

Quote:



Elitekeyboard.
Returns and Exchanges: For FILCO products returns for EXCHANGE ONLY will be accepted for DOA products for a period of 30 days from date of purchase. Free shipping will be provided for DOA products only if the problem is verified by EliteKeyboards. After the DOA period, returns may be made for repair, wherein, one-way shipping will be provided by EliteKeyboards if the problem is verified. For PFU Happy Hacking and Topre Realforce keyboards returns for REPAIR ONLY will be accepted and, while under warranty, free round-trip shipping will be provided if the problem is verified by EliteKeyboards; otherwise shipping must be covered by the customer. No returns will be accepted without prior e-mail approval and RMA number. EliteKeyboards will not be responsible for shipping or other costs the customer may incur that are NOT explicitly covered. Any loss or damage to the product during shipment is the responsibility of the shipper.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
if like that..i will just buy the deck first.

Well hey - as long as you're 100% certain. That's all that matters.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Well hey - as long as you're 100% certain. That's all that matters.

i think i should get tactile from deck, that will suit me for gaming and typing..balance right..


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


i think i should get tactile from deck, that will suit me for gaming and typing..balance right..


The Cherry MX Clears/Whites are said to require 55g to actuate. This is 10g higher than the Cherry MX Browns, and 5g higher than The Cherry MX Blues, but 5g *lower* than the Cherry MX Blacks and the Black Alps Copies.

So what do you think? Would you like a keyboard that's significantly superior to the ABS M1 in every way possible that includes a superior switch type but with an actuation force of 55g as compared to the 60g of the ABS M1's Black Alps Copies?

I mean, I've never seen a Deck owner say anything negative about their keyboard, but this is still up to you. I just want to make sure that you spend your money right.

But I am going to log off and unplug because there's a thunderstorm happening and I'm getting an overwhelming feeling that I should unplug until the storm passes.


----------



## fssbzz

wait wait before you go.
one more question..
black switches doesn't fail very good for typing aite?
i just want balance.
i know deck is awesome and have 1 year warranty..
+ back light + maybe one of the best quality keyboard...they made.
so black not really good typing right? just good for gaming right?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


wait wait before you go.
one more question..
black switches doesn't fail very good for typing aite?
i just want balance.
i know deck is awesome and have 1 year warranty..
+ back light + maybe one of the best quality keyboard...they made.
so black not really good typing right? just good for gaming right?


True. But the MX-Clears of the Deck are much nicer to type on because you feel a point at which to stop


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
True. But the MX-Clears of the Deck are much nicer to type on because you feel a point at which to stop

ok, so if are type and game BOTH alot..it is better to get the MX-Clear right?
the answer will decide which one i should buy.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
ok, so if are type and game BOTH alot..it is better to get the MX-Clear right?
the answer will decide which one i should buy.









I like a nice stiff switch for both gaming, & typing. So I would say so.

I bottom out much less with the MX-Clears and I've only had them for a small period of time.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I like a nice stiff switch for both gaming, & typing. So I would say so.

I bottom out much less with the MX-Clears and I've only had them for a small period of time.

so..i will get the tactile switch then.
dang it..so now..i will wait for my nx paycheck which will be tmr. and i will just buy it


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


wait wait before you go.
one more question..
black switches doesn't fail very good for typing aite?
i just want balance.
i know deck is awesome and have 1 year warranty..
+ back light + maybe one of the best quality keyboard...they made.
so black not really good typing right? just good for gaming right?


There is no way I was going to wait any longer. All it takes is one lightning strike.

Anyway: only generally speaking, the Cherry MX Blacks are better for gaming than typing, and the Cherry MX Blues are better for typing than gaming. The Cherry MX Browns are a good middle ground. But even so, it's possible for somebody to have a strong preference for the Cherry MX Blacks when it comes to just typing.

The Cherry MX Clears in the "tactile" Deck boards are probably going to require a similar amount of force to press that your ABS M1 has. Except, it will be a superior typing and gaming experience. After all, the force required to press the Cherry MX Clears is said to be 55g which is only 5g less than the actuation force of the ABS M1's switches (and also 5g less than the Cherry MX Blacks). In other words, the Cherry MX Clears are like the Cherry MX Browns, but stiffer.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


so..i will get the tactile switch then.
dang it..so now..i will wait for my nx paycheck which will be tmr. and i will just buy it










How much more would you like the ABS M1 if the switches required noticeably less force to press them?


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


There is no way I was going to wait any longer. All it takes is one lightning strike.

Anyway: only generally speaking, the Cherry MX Blacks are better for gaming than typing, and the Cherry MX Blues are better for typing than gaming. The Cherry MX Browns are a good middle ground. But even so, it's possible for somebody to have a strong preference for the Cherry MX Blacks when it comes to just typing.

The Cherry MX Clears in the "tactile" Deck boards are probably going to require a similar amount of force to press that your ABS M1 has. Except, it will be a superior typing and gaming experience. After all, the force required to press the Cherry MX Clears is said to be 55g which is only 5g less than the actuation force of the ABS M1's switches (and also 5g less than the Cherry MX Blacks). In other words, the Cherry MX Clears are like the Cherry MX Browns, but stiffer.

How much more would you like the ABS M1 if the switches required noticeably less force to press them?


probably $45


----------



## nijikon5

If it is possible for any potential Mech. KB owners to purchase a Mech. KB from their local Fry's or Microcenter, do it. Most B&M stores have good return policies, so if you don't like it, return it. Making choices by watching YouTube really does no justice to how a particular switch type of Mech. KBs truly feel. Watching YouTube to decide which type you like best is like telling someone to watch porn to get a feeling for how intercourse feels.


----------



## fssbzz

hey the DAS Pro silent is Brown Switches...should i get that?


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


hey the DAS Pro silent is Brown Switches...should i get that?


Are you a student? They offer student discounts if you can provide proof (usually a student ID). It's about 24% off, so you can buy the Das Pro Silent for about $102, which even includes shipping. That's the only reason why I am buying from Das.


----------



## nijikon5

OT:
I just came back from the best live show I've been too ( been going to various shows since HS, which has been around 10 years or so now ). Rage Against the Machine put on a show to protest SB1070 of Arizona. I think they raised about 300k for grassroots campaigns fighting SB1070. The energy of the band and crowd was unreal. Anyways, here's my souvenir from the show:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._2324193_n.jpg


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


probably $45










I'm not talking about money. I'm asking this: if the ABS M1 had the "lighter" Cherry MX Brown switches, then would you like it more than you do now?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


hey the DAS Pro silent is Brown Switches...should i get that?


It's completely up to you. It's almost like asking others what condiments to put on your food: it's a personal decision.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I'm not talking about money. I'm asking this: if the ABS M1 had the "lighter" Cherry MX Brown switches, then would you like it more than you do now?


Is that what they mean by tactile ergonomic...the fact that it's tactile, yet "lighter"?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Is that what they mean by tactile ergonomic...the fact that it's tactile, yet "lighter"?


Who's using the term "tactile ergonomic"?


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Who's using the term "tactile ergonomic"?


On the original post, the brown switches are labeled as tactile ergonomic. It's on the graph.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


On the original post, the brown switches are labeled as tactile ergonomic. It's on the graph.


Where? I loaded the first page and performed a Ctrl+F search for "ergonomic", and I only found one match on the entire page and it wasn't talking about switch types.

Help?

*Edit:* I found it. I really don't know why it says "ergonomic". I guess I just think that it's unimportant. That's just what Cherry says about this switch type.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Where? I loaded the first page and performed a Ctrl+F search for "ergonomic", and I only found one match on the entire page and it wasn't talking about switch types.

Help?

*Edit:* I found it. I really don't know why it says "ergonomic". I guess I just think that it's unimportant. That's just what Cherry says about this switch type.


Oh, well anyways, I've watched this video over and over, and I can't get over how awesome it sounds.












This video also amplifies the clicky goodness.












Trying really hard to find the Das Silent model, but it's nowhere to be found, except for, again, that video from that misinformed person







.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Oh, well anyways, I've watched this video over and over, and I can't get over how awesome it sounds.






This video also amplifies the clicky goodness.






Trying really hard to find the Das Silent model, but it's nowhere to be found, except for, again, that video from that misinformed person







.


Yeah, and he doesn't even press any keys. But meh, most boards with the Cherry MX switches sound similar enough anyway.

I am the same way with the Cherry MX Blues though: every time I would focus my attention on videos of Cherry MX Brown keyboards and then suddenly switch to Cherry MX Blue keyboard videos, my heart fluttered or something (like hearing the my favorite type of female voice or something). I thought I was becoming a fruitcake or something, but damn: I just love that click! I also love the way it feels to type.

So that's pretty much when I knew I was going to get a keyboard with the Cherry MX Blues. So at that point, I kept doing more research just to make sure I knew I was making the right choice. After a while, I found that I just couldn't take my mind off my desire to have the Cherry MX Blues and I also found myself falling in love with the Majestouch and the rest is history.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Ergonomic probably because the Browns are light.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Yeah, and he doesn't even press any keys. But meh, most boards with the Cherry MX switches sound similar enough anyway.

I am the same way with the Cherry MX Blues though: every time I would focus my attention on videos of Cherry MX Brown keyboards and then suddenly switch to Cherry MX Blue keyboard videos, my heart fluttered or something (like hearing the my favorite type of female voice or something). I thought I was becoming a fruitcake or something, but damn: I just love that click! I also love the way it feels to type.

So that's pretty much when I knew I was going to get a keyboard with the Cherry MX Blues. So at that point, I kept doing more research just to make sure I knew I was making the right choice. After a while, I found that I just couldn't take my mind off my desire to have the Cherry MX Blues and I also found myself falling in love with the Majestouch and the rest is history.


So you said that most keyboards should sound the same if they have the same switches...meaning that if I watched a video for the Majestouch Tactile Touch keyboard, and listened to the sound it makes, it should be similar or the same to that of the Das Keyboard Silent model.

Now of course, there are certain times when they don't sound the same and I have observed this with the Scorpio vs. the Das Keyboard non-Silent model. Many people have said the sound of the Das Keyboard non-Silent model is higher-pitched vs. that of the Scorpio.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


So you said that most keyboards should sound the same if they have the same switches...meaning that if I watched a video for the Majestouch Tactile Touch keyboard, and listened to the sound it makes, it should be similar or the same to that of the Das Keyboard Silent model.


Sometimes it's noticeably different, but yet still similar.

Like, I noticed from watching all of those videos that the Das Model S (not the Silent) has a slightly higher-pitched click to the switches than the Majestouch Tactile Click. However, they still have a similar sound to each other.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Now of course, there are certain times when they don't sound the same and I have observed this with the Scorpio vs. the Das Keyboard non-Silent model. Many people have said the sound of the Das Keyboard non-Silent model is higher-pitched vs. that of the Scorpio.


Indeed.







They're almost like quality musical instruments.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Sometimes it's noticeably different, but yet still similar.

Like, I noticed from watching all of those videos that the Das Model S (not the Silent) has a slightly higher-pitched click to the switches than the Majestouch Tactile Click. However, they still have a similar sound to each other.

Indeed.







They're almost like quality musical instruments.


Hmmm...well IDK. I'll still have to do some research but I am still leaning towards buying the non-Silent model over the Silent model. I am unfortunately a selfish person so I have no compassion towards those who will have to suffer from the typing noise, so noise is of no problem. I do love to type and I type a lot, more than I do gaming. It's probably split between 60% typing, 40% gaming. And even if it proves to be a hindrance for gaming, everything takes some getting used to. Perhaps, in time, I will learn to game proficiently with Blue switches if I won't already game proficiently upon receiving it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Hmmm...well IDK. I'll still have to do some research but I am still leaning towards buying the non-Silent model over the Silent model. I am unfortunately a selfish person so I have no compassion towards those who will have to suffer from the typing noise, so noise is of no problem. I do love to type and I type a lot, more than I do gaming. It's probably split between 60% typing, 40% gaming. And even if it proves to be a hindrance for gaming, everything takes some getting used to. Perhaps, in time, I will learn to game proficiently with Blue switches if I won't already game proficiently upon receiving it.


Ha, being selfish is a good thing for picking out a mechanical keyboard. That way you get the one that suits you best.









But yeah, it sounds to me like a good keyboard with the Cherry MX Blues or Buckling Springs or Cherry MX Browns would be the best choice. But it sounds like your heart is set on the Das Model S! And y'know something, even though I love my Majestouch, I often wonder what it would be like to have that Model S Professional especially now that it has the two Windows keys! I mean, I didn't like it before because it had the Fn key where the left WinKey goes, and that was the primary reason I avoided the Das Model S.

Maybe someday I'll buy one if I can afford it!


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Ha, being selfish is a good thing for picking out a mechanical keyboard. That way you get the one that suits you best.









But yeah, it sounds to me like a good keyboard with the Cherry MX Blues or Buckling Springs or Cherry MX Browns would be the best choice. But it sounds like your heart is set on the Das Model S! And y'know something, even though I love my Majestouch, I often wonder what it would be like to have that Model S Professional especially now that it has the two Windows keys! I mean, I didn't like it before because it had the Fn key where the left WinKey goes, and that was the primary reason I avoided the Das Model S.

Maybe someday I'll buy one if I can afford it!


Well, not going to lie but I was pretty hooked on the Majestouch Tactile Click Tenkeyless Otaku, and I would have bought that if Das didn't offer a student discount. But seeing as I'm pretty low on money, I'm going with the Das instead.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Well, not going to lie but I was pretty hooked on the Majestouch Tactile Click Tenkeyless Otaku, and I would have bought that if Das didn't offer a student discount. But seeing as I'm pretty low on money, I'm going with the Das instead.


There a few people who regularly post in this thread who would gladly tell you that they believe the Das Model S is pretty superior to the Majestouch boards. However, I feel that when considering boards of this caliber (Majestouch and Model S), the things that matters more are like the features, appearance and price.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


There a few people who regularly post in this thread who would gladly tell you that they believe the Das Model S is pretty superior to the Majestouch boards. However, I feel that when considering boards of this caliber (Majestouch and Model S), the things that matters more are like the features, appearance and price.


Well the Majestouch Tenkeyless Otaku has a very sleek design. It's pretty much a rectangle, and is extremely minimalist, even more so than the Das Keyboard Ultimate Model S because it doesn't have that little lump on the right hand corner. As for features, the Das has USB hubs, which are completely pointless because they are to the right side of the mouse and therefore, will be an obstruction to mouse movement. Price-wise, the Majestouch beats it by about a $10 difference, but with a student discount, the Das beats it by twice that much. Of course, not everyone can get a student discount so readily because it is based on their status of whether they are a student or not.

So I guess both are good in their own way, lol?


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Wow, so much would the Ultimate Model S be for your after the student discount?


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*


Wow, so much would the Ultimate Model S be for your after the student discount?


$98 and some cents. This includes shipping already too








.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Well the Majestouch Tenkeyless Otaku has a very sleek design. It's pretty much a rectangle, and is extremely minimalist, even more so than the Das Keyboard Ultimate Model S because it doesn't have that little lump on the right hand corner. As for features, the Das has USB hubs, which are completely pointless because they are to the right side of the mouse and therefore, will be an obstruction to mouse movement. Price-wise, the Majestouch beats it by about a $10 difference, but with a student discount, the Das beats it by twice that much. Of course, not everyone can get a student discount so readily because it is based on their status of whether they are a student or not.

So I guess both are good in their own way, lol?


Ha, we dislike the Model S for the same reasons: the placement of the USB hub turns me off too just because the only use I'd personally get out of it is for my mouse.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I'm not talking about money. I'm asking this: if the ABS M1 had the "lighter" Cherry MX Brown switches, then would you like it more than you do now?

It's completely up to you. It's almost like asking others what condiments to put on your food: it's a personal decision.


i probably will. but i haven try any other switch then the blue one.

if i get the silent pro Das, it is the brown switches. which is cheaper compare to the Deck for now, so feeling is probably the same like some other brown switches keyboard?


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Read up on a review here, where the author comments on slow polling rates and how the keyboard still suffers from the technical difficulty that plagued the Das III keyboard. Can anyone comment on this?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


i probably will. but i haven try any other switch then the blue one.

if i get the silent pro Das, it is the brown switches. which is cheaper compare to the Deck for now, so feeling is probably the same like some other brown switches keyboard?


Why do you want the Cherry MX Browns? I'm not saying that your choice is bad, but I want to be sure you take the right path to the best final choice for you.

Additionally, don't forget that the tactile Deck boards use the Cherry MX Clears which are like the Cherry MX Browns, but have an actuation force closer to the Cherry MX Blacks (but the Cherry MX Clears are still tactile while the Blacks are linear).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Read up on a review here, where the author comments on slow polling rates and how the keyboard still suffers from the technical difficulty that plagued the Das III keyboard. Can anyone comment on this?


It sounds like the only people who would have any problem with that are people who have "god-like typing speeds".


----------



## fssbzz

i like this video so much


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Read up on a review here, where the author comments on slow polling rates and how the keyboard still suffers from the technical difficulty that plagued the Das III keyboard. Can anyone comment on this?


The polling rate won't matter if you use the included USB/PS/2 adapter. You'll get full NKRO that way too instead of just 6 key.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*







i like this video so much


Definitely shows the difference between what different key switches sound like. However, IMO, I still think the Das Keyboard sounds the best.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ljason8eg*


The polling rate won't matter if you use the included USB/PS/2 adapter. You'll get full NKRO that way too instead of just 6 key.


Thanks. I'll be doing that then.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*







i like this video so much


Me too! This was the very first video I watched when I began my hunt for my first (and only) mechanical keyboard! I remember when I first got the idea to start watching videos, this one was the first one that came to my mind and so I did everything I could to find it.

So, I pretty much like it for that reason.







Well, plus it's a good video!


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Definitely shows the difference between what different key switches sound like. However, IMO, I still think the Das Keyboard sounds the best.

Thanks. I'll be doing that then.


i think filco brown switches sounds the best lol.
i used DAS Keyboard blue switches before, don't really like it for gaming.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ljason8eg*


The polling rate won't matter if you use the included USB/PS/2 adapter. You'll get full NKRO that way too instead of just 6 key.


Then the reviewer didn't do a good review of the Model S. It was coming with the USB to PS/2 adapter for full NKRO at the time he wrote his review.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Me too! This was the very first video I watched when I began my hunt for my first (and only) mechanical keyboard! I remember when I first got the idea to start watching videos, this one was the first one that came to my mind and so I did everything I could to find it.

So, I pretty much like it for that reason.







Well, plus it's a good video!


i download it from the original link, and upload it up to youtube. so it is easier for me to str8 link the video here.
OP should probably add this in the first post


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Then the reviewer didn't do a good review of the Model S. It was coming with the USB to PS/2 adapter for full NKRO at the time he wrote his review.


Yeah I agree. I was a bit confused to why he didn't use the adapter. There's only positives to using it.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


i download it from the original link, and upload it up to youtube. so it is easier for me to str8 link the video here.
OP should probably add this in the first post










Good idea. You should ask him about it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


i download it from the original link, and upload it up to youtube. so it is easier for me to str8 link the video here.
OP should probably add this in the first post










Technically, it's in the first post. hehe


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Technically, it's in the first post. hehe










oh man, i just saw that..the hotware size is so small lol.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
oh man, i just saw that..the hotware size is so small lol.

Yeah it sure is. If I were able to re-write the entire 10-page OP, then that's one of the things I would improve.


----------



## DuDeInThEmOoN42

Can someone explain to me what polling is? It seems specific to USB buses since they are shared but I'm not sure what that really means..I understand IRQ's and how those are handled in conjunction with scan codes and drivers, but I don't know what polling is. Sorry for being a noob!


----------



## crt4life

I'm flip flopping on my decision again for key type. I'm back to leaning towards blue switches, especially because Ive discovered a microcenter somewhat close to me that has Das pro model S keyboards on sale for only $100.

I know blue switches are not necessarily looked upon as the best key for gaming, but how much better are they for gaming when compared to your typical rubber dome board?


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crt4life* 
I'm flip flopping on my decision again for key type. I'm back to leaning towards blue switches, especially because Ive discovered a microcenter somewhat close to me that has Das pro model S keyboards on sale for only $100.

I know blue switches are not necessarily looked upon as the best key for gaming, but how much better are they for gaming when compared to your typical rubber dome board?

Yea I just noticed the Microcenter deal...but it's sold out at my place







.

I can't comment on your question, but according to what I've read and observed and watched, I'm sure they're much better than rubber dome.


----------



## WhiteRice

microcenter by me has an open box deal on SIIG mechanical keyboards, $19.99. Should I jump on this?


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WhiteRice* 
microcenter by me has an open box deal on SIIG mechanical keyboards, $19.99. Should I jump on this?

I would definitely jump on it. Can you return the open box product if you found out it was damaged?


----------



## WhiteRice

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
I would definitely jump on it. Can you return the open box product if you found out it was damaged?

I reserved for pickup, and the open box deal isn't showing up anymore. Hopefully I can go pick it up tomorrow. I'll let you know.

As far as returns go. I'm not really sure to be honest, but if anything was wrong I could probably get a refund since they're a retail chain. For $20 I'm not that concerned anyway.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WhiteRice* 
I reserved for pickup, and the open box deal isn't showing up anymore. Hopefully I can go pick it up tomorrow. I'll let you know.

As far as returns go. I'm not really sure to be honest, but if anything was wrong I could probably get a refund since they're a retail chain. For $20 I'm not that concerned anyway.

Yeah, unfortunately the policy can very from store to store.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Hey, if it really is a mechanical, for $20 it's a steal.

I know siig makes some rubber domed keyboards as well. Fingers crossed that it's not one of those.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WhiteRice* 
I reserved for pickup, and the open box deal isn't showing up anymore. Hopefully I can go pick it up tomorrow. I'll let you know.

As far as returns go. I'm not really sure to be honest, but if anything was wrong I could probably get a refund since they're a retail chain. For $20 I'm not that concerned anyway.

Is this deal in SoCal by any chance?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DuDeInThEmOoN42* 
Can someone explain to me what polling is? It seems specific to USB buses since they are shared but I'm not sure what that really means..I understand IRQ's and how those are handled in conjunction with scan codes and drivers, but I don't know what polling is. Sorry for being a noob!

USB polls the keyboard for new information at regular intervals. This technically means it's a little slower then ps/2, since the ps/2 is interrupt based and takes effect intermediately.

The USB polls so fast that I don't think it's humanly possible to notice the difference, so it doesn't really matter.


----------



## WhiteRice

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Is this deal in SoCal by any chance?


Was in Northern NJ :/


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Is this deal in SoCal by any chance?


check it out yourself on the site, i think they update the products once you pick your location

ny has nothing


----------



## WhiteRice

"Pick up order Cancelled"


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


USB polls the keyboard for new information at regular intervals. This technically means it's a little slower then ps/2, since the ps/2 is interrupt based and takes effect intermediately.

The USB polls so fast that I don't think it's humanly possible to notice the difference, so it doesn't really matter.


You're right, you really can't. But just think of all the latency you get these days when playing a game:

- from keyboard to keyboard buffer
- from keyboard buffer to directinput
- from directinput to graphics buffer
- from graphics buffer to graphics processing
- from graphics processing to screen's circuitry
- from screen's circuitry to being displayed

When you add it all up it becomes pretty noticeable. Using a PS/2 keyboard and a CRT are the two easiest parts to control, and the two put together can make a huge difference. I can understand people not using CRTs, but if you've got a PS/2 port why not use it?


----------



## LarsMarkelson

http://www.overclock.net/full-system...wout-sale.html

^ Used ABS M1 for sale for $20 + shipping if anyone's interested


----------



## WhiteRice

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*


http://www.overclock.net/full-system...wout-sale.html

^ Used ABS M1 for sale for $20 + shipping if anyone's interested


Thanks, I sent him a pm. Since microcenter shafted me I'll grab this one.


----------



## godofdeath

I can't seem to remove my backspace key to fix the squeak, I manage to pop it out part way, but however the metal hinge is stuck on?

Anyone got any methods?


----------



## godofdeath

never mind pulled it out and fixed it

the wipe tabs that the bars hook on to make it really hard to do


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


never pulled it out and fixed it

the wipe tabs that the bars hook on to make it really hard to do


I don't really think I can explain it well. But with the metal bar you just kinda have to slide it out of place and then you can take the keycap off.

EDIT: I don't have my Das any more, so maybe someone else with a Das could help him, and better explain h ow to do it as I'm working off memory.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I don't really think I can explain it well. But with the metal bar you just kinda have to slide it out of place and then you can take the keycap off.

EDIT: I don't have my Das any more, so maybe someone else with a Das could help him, and better explain h ow to do it as I'm working off memory.


well i fixed it, it was just because in the photo you used it was with the white things stuck to it i got scared and stuff, it is a pain to put them back in if you pull the white ones off too

i had to remove the key next to it so i could slide in one side and then with a little force do the other


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


well i fixed it, it was just because in the photo you used it was with the white things stuck to it i got scared and stuff, it is a pain to put them back in if you pull the white ones off too

i had to remove the key next to it so i could slide in one side and then with a little force do the other


Ah well good to hear.

So it's all non-squeeky now?


----------



## godofdeath

yea no more squeak


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tankguys* 
Cherry switch keys are now posted









http://www.tankguys.com/site-merchan...ey-cherry.html


interesting info from tankguys in the ocn key thread


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Just wondering, but what do you guys think of this keyboard? It uses Alps, and it goes for the same price as the Das Keyboard with student discount, with the exception of the $11 shipping.

Link here.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
Just wondering, but what do you guys think of this keyboard? It uses Alps, and it goes for the same price as the Das Keyboard with student discount, with the exception of the $11 shipping.

Link here.

Good board. I mean it is being sold by Geekhack members, so it pretty much already has the elitist seal of approval.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Good board. I mean it is being sold by Geekhack members, so it pretty much already has the elitist seal of approval.

For typing use, how much better is white alps compared to blue cherry switches?


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
For typing use, how much better is white alps compared to blue cherry switches?

Personal preference for sure. Myself I have a feeling that I would prefer the white alps over the cherry blues, because for some reason I really liked the feel of those copies on the ABS M1. Just something about them, even though the Clears I use now are way better. If I had a real set of alps switches I'm sure I'd change my mind.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Personal preference for sure. Myself I have a feeling that I would prefer the white alps over the cherry blues, because for some reason I really liked the feel of those copies on the ABS M1. Just something about them, even though the Clears I use now are way better. If I had a real set of alps switches I'm sure I'd change my mind.

Well just learned the SIIG board doesn't have NKRO...which could pose a problem. The only reason why the board appeals to me is because of its smaller size.


----------



## brodie337

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
Just wondering, but what do you guys think of this keyboard? It uses Alps, and it goes for the same price as the Das Keyboard with student discount, with the exception of the $11 shipping.

Link here.


I have one as a travel keyboard with my netbook. It's small, very tactile and VERY LOUD. If you don't like a little noise, this isn't the keyboard for you, however, after breaking the switches in, I'm impressed with the feel of it. The tactile bump is really quite sharp, which makes it a little difficult to not bottom out. However, the layout isn't bad given the size, though I wish the tilde and \\ key were better placed. Another thing is that the enter doesn't really like off centre hits, but I've since gotten used to that.

Any questions, shoot me a PM.

EDIT: Yeah, the rollover is pretty crap, but as a pure typing board, it's fantastic.

If you plan on gaming, a Filco 87 key might be the best option. Blues aren't really recommended for gaming as the activation and deactivation point arent the same, so you cant hover over it and fire off rapid presses.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
For typing use, how much better is white alps compared to blue cherry switches?

Personally, I love them







. I just don't have a _good_ keyboard that has them. Well, ok, I have a Siig Minitouch, but it's still in brand new condition and I don't want that to change!

But I don't know if I'd say they're "better". That's entirely your own preference.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brodie337* 
I have one as a travel keyboard with my netbook. It's small, very tactile and VERY LOUD. If you don't like a little noise, this isn't the keyboard for you, however, after breaking the switches in, I'm impressed with the feel of it. The tactile bump is really quite sharp, which makes it a little difficult to not bottom out. However, the layout isn't bad given the size, though I wish the tilde and \\ key were better placed. Another thing is that the enter doesn't really like off centre hits, but I've since gotten used to that.

Any questions, shoot me a PM.

EDIT: Yeah, the rollover is pretty crap, but as a pure typing board, it's fantastic.

If you plan on gaming, a Filco 87 key might be the best option. Blues aren't really recommended for gaming as the activation and deactivation point arent the same, so you cant hover over it and fire off rapid presses.

It's either Filco Majestouch Tactile Click Tenkeyless Otaku ($133.50) or Das Keyboard Ultimate Model S with student discount ($100 including shipping) for me. While yes, people have recommended browns for gaming, I don't think I can live with the lightness of brown switches. If it's way too responsive, that will turn me off immensily, and as I am coming from a G15 (where I've heard the force required to press a key is around 60+), the 45g that a brown switch requires is way too little for me.

Plus, I know several people who game on the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click (actually they're my former teammates for OCN's TF2 comp team) and they game perfectly fine. I'm sure gaming on blue switches is all a matter of time and getting used to it.

Now my main problem is, is it justifiable to pay an extra $30 for the Filco for no numpad? I mean I love the size of the Filco, and I have thought about spending $130 for a keyboard that I will probably keep for another good 10 years+, or spending less for a Das Keyboard, which is pretty much the same, but much bigger, with a numpad that I probably will never use, additional USB hubs on the right side which is completely pointless, and a glossy finish, which will end up getting scratched up/"fingerprinty."


----------



## iAligator

So what Mechanical Keyboard would you recommend for $100+/-?


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iAligator* 
So what Mechanical Keyboard would you recommend for $100+/-?

Well, first off, are you a student? And do you game a whole lot? If so, the Das Keyboard with student discount might be for you (it's $98 shipped for blue cherries and $102 shipped for brown cherries). But if you're not a gamer, you can look at that link I posted about the SIIG keyboard. It goes for $99 + however much shipping would cost for you.


----------



## Pasha

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
Well, first off, are you a student? And do you game a whole lot? If so, the Das Keyboard with student discount might be for you (it's $98 shipped for blue cherries and $102 shipped for brown cherries). But if you're not a gamer, you can look at that link I posted about the SIIG keyboard. It goes for $99 + however much shipping would cost for you.

Student discount? ohwut? How?

edit: Well I contacted them like they said on their website, does anyone know how they decide if you're eligible or not?


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pasha* 
Student discount? ohwut? How?

http://www.daskeyboard.com/education-discount-program/

Usually, all you need is to shoot them an e-mail using the convenient button to the left side of the page. They should contact you within a day or so (but if not, calling customer support is a good way of getting their attention). Once they have responded to your support ticket, you can attach a scan of your student ID, and if they think it's legit, they will give you a one-time 24% discount coupon code. It's pretty nice.


----------



## Pasha

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
http://www.daskeyboard.com/education-discount-program/

Usually, all you need is to shoot them an e-mail using the convenient button to the left side of the page. They should contact you within a day or so (but if not, calling customer support is a good way of getting their attention). Once they have responded to your support ticket, you can attach a scan of your student ID, and if they think it's legit, they will give you a one-time 24% discount coupon code. It's pretty nice.

Alright, that's great! Thanks. (repcandy)


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brodie337* 
I have one as a travel keyboard with my netbook. It's small, very tactile and VERY LOUD. If you don't like a little noise, this isn't the keyboard for you, however, after breaking the switches in, I'm impressed with the feel of it. The tactile bump is really quite sharp, which makes it a little difficult to not bottom out. However, the layout isn't bad given the size, though I wish the tilde and \\ key were better placed. Another thing is that the enter doesn't really like off centre hits, but I've since gotten used to that.

Any questions, shoot me a PM.

EDIT: Yeah, the rollover is pretty crap, but as a pure typing board, it's fantastic.

If you plan on gaming, a Filco 87 key might be the best option. Blues aren't really recommended for gaming as the activation and deactivation point arent the same, so you cant hover over it and fire off rapid presses.

Yeah I love the small size of it but dislike the layout, particularly that it has no dedicated home button. Thinking I might as well save for a HHKB Pro 2 instead









Also, my Rosewill RK-800G came with one of those key cap pullers they say is really good, so that makes me happy







Got it on shell shocker for $10 shipped, yeah it's rubber dome but it's the best rubber dome I've used.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
It's either Filco Majestouch Tactile Click Tenkeyless Otaku ($133.50) or Das Keyboard Ultimate Model S with student discount ($100 including shipping) for me. While yes, people have recommended browns for gaming, I don't think I can live with the lightness of brown switches. If it's way too responsive, that will turn me off immensily, and as I am coming from a G15 (where I've heard the force required to press a key is around 60+), the 45g that a brown switch requires is way too little for me.

Plus, I know several people who game on the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click (actually they're my former teammates for OCN's TF2 comp team) and they game perfectly fine. I'm sure gaming on blue switches is all a matter of time and getting used to it.

Now my main problem is, is it justifiable to pay an extra $30 for the Filco for no numpad? I mean I love the size of the Filco, and I have thought about spending $130 for a keyboard that I will probably keep for another good 10 years+, or spending less for a Das Keyboard, which is pretty much the same, but much bigger, with a numpad that I probably will never use, additional USB hubs on the right side which is completely pointless, and a glossy finish, which will end up getting scratched up/"fingerprinty."

It sounds to me like you would be much, much happier with a board like the Majestouch or similar.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
Yeah I love the small size of it but dislike the layout, particularly that it has no dedicated home button. Thinking I might as well save for a HHKB Pro 2 instead









Also, my Rosewill RK-800G came with one of those key cap pullers they say is really good, so that makes me happy







Got it on shell shocker for $10 shipped, yeah it's rubber dome but it's the best rubber dome I've used.

I would too, but recovering money after spending about $2000 on a new tablet for my engineering classes this fall semester isn't that easy. In fact, buying either the Das or the Filco Tenkeyless (still can't decide over which one is better), is a pretty difficult decision...but I am definitely paying for quality so at least I will be happy knowing that.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
It sounds to me like you would be much, much happier with a board like the Majestouch or similar.









While yes, I did complain a lot about the Das, the only reason why I am still iffy about the Majestouch is the $30 that I will have to pay in addition.

BTW, I recently received a $15 OCZ giftcard (part of my mail-in rebate from my GTX 260). It's a debit card. I was wondering if you could enter in two credit card numbers at checkout because I have been meaning to use it.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Tenkeyless is more ergonomic than a full sized as the mouse isn't so far off to the right. The long term comfort of that would be worth $30 to me.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


It's either Filco Majestouch Tactile Click Tenkeyless Otaku ($133.50) or Das Keyboard Ultimate Model S with student discount ($100 including shipping) for me. While yes, people have recommended browns for gaming, I don't think I can live with the lightness of brown switches. If it's way too responsive, that will turn me off immensily, and as I am coming from a G15 (where I've heard the force required to press a key is around 60+), the 45g that a brown switch requires is way too little for me.

Plus, I know several people who game on the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click (actually they're my former teammates for OCN's TF2 comp team) and they game perfectly fine. I'm sure gaming on blue switches is all a matter of time and getting used to it.

Now my main problem is, is it justifiable to pay an extra $30 for the Filco for no numpad? I mean I love the size of the Filco, and I have thought about spending $130 for a keyboard that I will probably keep for another good 10 years+, or spending less for a Das Keyboard, which is pretty much the same, but much bigger, with a numpad that I probably will never use, additional USB hubs on the right side which is completely pointless, and a glossy finish, which will end up getting scratched up/"fingerprinty."


blue switches is really not fun for playing games like,
GTA,
CSS,
Alien Swarm...
base on my own experience. but for typing..
OH Yeah, i love it alot alot.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


blue switches is really not fun for playing games like,
GTA,
CSS,
Alien Swarm...
base on my own experience. but for typing..
OH Yeah, i love it alot alot.


There will be a point where I will grow up and stop gaming. In the real world, I believe typing will serve a more useful purpose.

And again, I think the brown switches are a little too sensitive. I am coming from a rubber dome, which I have heard requires 60g of force to push down a key. The 45g for a brown, IMO, is way too sensitive.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Seems like a Cherry Clear would be the best for you?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
I would too, but recovering money after spending about $2000 on a new tablet for my engineering classes this fall semester isn't that easy. In fact, buying either the Das or the Filco Tenkeyless (still can't decide over which one is better), is a pretty difficult decision...but I am definitely paying for quality so at least I will be happy knowing that.

While yes, I did complain a lot about the Das, the only reason why I am still iffy about the Majestouch is the $30 that I will have to pay in addition.

BTW, I recently received a $15 OCZ giftcard (part of my mail-in rebate from my GTX 260). It's a debit card. I was wondering if you could enter in two credit card numbers at checkout because I have been meaning to use it.

Well, here are the reasons why I would hate the Das Model S (even the current one with two meta keys as opposed to just one):

High-gloss finish
Inconvenient placement of the USB ports (at least for me)
It's a little bit bigger than the full-size Majestouch
I've seen more people complain about their defective Model S than the Majestouch
It doesn't come with a red Esc key (trivial, but I like it)
More triviality, but I don't like the hype on their site.








But the first two reasons are most definitely the biggest problems I'd have with it.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Well, here are the reasons why I would hate the Das Model S (even the current one with two meta keys as opposed to just one):

High-gloss finish
Inconvenient placement of the USB ports (at least for me)
It's a little bit bigger than the full-size Majestouch
I've seen more people complain about their defective Model S than the Majestouch
It doesn't come with a red Esc key (trivial, but I like it)
More triviality, but I don't like the hype on their site.








But the first two reasons are most definitely the biggest problems I'd have with it.


Yea high gloss would bother me a lot too. I guess it's really $30 more vs. wiping down my keyboard three times a day, haha.

Eh what the hell. I spend so much money on clothes, $30 is probably nothing in the long run. Might as well go with the Filco.

TwoCables, how long did it take for your Filco to ship to you? I am going on vacation starting tomorrow so I don't want to buy it so early and have it come while I'm on my vacation and then come back to find the box/keyboard damaged or worse...stolen.


----------



## brodie337

You're saying that 45g is too light, and I thought the same before I bought a Filco with Browns. It did take a fair bit of bottoming out to get used to, but I don't find them overly light anymore.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *brodie337*


You're saying that 45g is too light, and I thought the same before I bought a Filco with Browns. It did take a fair bit of bottoming out to get used to, but I don't find them overly light anymore.


Even if blue's aren't exactly the best for gaming, in the end, I can see blue's being more future proof. I can see myself typing more in the future than gaming, especially with college coming up, and especially because I applied to the United States Military Academy, where I'm sure cadre will be strict with gaming anyway.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Yea high gloss would bother me a lot too. I guess it's really $30 more vs. wiping down my keyboard three times a day, haha.

Eh what the hell. I spend so much money on clothes, $30 is probably nothing in the long run. Might as well go with the Filco.

TwoCables, how long did it take for your Filco to ship to you? I am going on vacation starting tomorrow so I don't want to buy it so early and have it come while I'm on my vacation and then come back to find the box/keyboard damaged or worse...stolen.












This is a FedEx Ground shipping estimation map as measured from the zip code Elite Keyboards ships from. According to this, it should take about 4 business days to ship to you. It took 4 business days for me too which is right in line with this estimation map (I live in St. Paul, Minnesota).

But remember that once the order is placed, it could take 1 to 2 days for it to finally ship out of their warehouse.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*











This is a FedEx Ground Shipping estimation map as measured from the zip code Elite Keyboards ships from. According to this, it should take about 4 business days to ship to you. It took 4 business days for me too which is right in line with this estimation map (I live in St. Paul, Minnesota).


Alright, I'll buy Tuesday.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Alright, I'll buy Tuesday.


As long as you're sure! But either keyboard you get, you're going to just be astounded.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


As long as you're sure! But either keyboard you get, you're going to just be astounded.


I am quite sure. Glossy is already bad enough on a mouse (Deathadder)...don't need it on a keyboard either.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


I am quite sure. Glossy is already bad enough on a mouse (Deathadder)...don't need it on a keyboard either.


Yeah, I came from the Razer Lycosa and even though I liked that high-gloss finish at first, I quickly got sick of it. After all, I had to see it every single day!


----------



## LarsMarkelson

T-Minus 1 day until I get my Majestouch Tenkeyless Tactile Touch (Cherry Brown)... WEE


----------



## iAligator

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Well, first off, are you a student? And do you game a whole lot? If so, the Das Keyboard with student discount might be for you (it's $98 shipped for blue cherries and $102 shipped for brown cherries). But if you're not a gamer, you can look at that link I posted about the SIIG keyboard. It goes for $99 + however much shipping would cost for you.


Does the silent one have the same feeling as the none-silent one? If so, I would much rather go with the Silent one. How much will this one cost with Student Discount?

Thanks ;D


----------



## iAligator

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Yeah, I came from the Razer Lycosa and even though I liked that high-gloss finish at first, I quickly got sick of it. After all, I had to see it every single day!


You guys are talking about the Old DeathAdder right? Cause the one I have is not glossy (matte, maybe?). I have the 3500 and I love it!


----------



## hglazm

I just got a model M from a friend for $10.
I have to say, its actually SIGNIFICANTLY more pleasurable to type on than I thought before.

Was that a good find? Its a board from `92, the pause|break key is (somehow) replaced with a second Print Screen button (Identical to the actual one, so must've been from another model M), and the - key on the numpad is replaced with a slightly smaller, blank key.

Everything is pretty good.


----------



## iAligator

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hglazm*


i just got a model m from a friend for $10.
I have to say, its actually significantly more pleasurable to type on than i thought before.

Was that a good find? Its a board from `92, the pause|break key is (somehow) replaced with a second print screen button (identical to the actual one, so must've been from another model m), and the - key on the numpad is replaced with a slightly smaller, blank key.

Everything is pretty good.


link, please.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hglazm*


key on the numpad is replaced with a slightly smaller, blank key.


Model Ms use two part keycaps for most kets, so what you're seeing there is actually the lower part of the key (if you pinch the front and back of a key like Esc or one of the F keys and pull up, you'll see what I mean)

$10 for just about any Model M is a good price.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iAligator*


Does the silent one have the same feeling as the none-silent one? If so, I would much rather go with the Silent one. How much will this one cost with Student Discount?

Thanks ;D


It's $102 including shipping with Student Discount. The Student Discount is 24% off.

BTW, I have the 1800 DPI Razer Deathadder. The palm side is matte, but the thumb place is glossy. But it doesn't matter to me. I simply ignore it now because it's such a great mouse.

T-minus one day until I order my Filco Tactile Click Tenkeyless Otaku







.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Just curious, what do you think about a Cherry Clear ?


----------



## Maytan

Well, I broke my keyboard. Trying to take the keycap off; I snapped one of the white whatever the hell you call thems when trying to get the key off the stabilizer. Best part, I didn't even fix the squeaking. I don't know if the lubrication didn't distribute, if the key switch is bad, or what. And I've found out that THREE of the keys have this problem. Well now that I've wasted $135 (OH WAIT, $155. EMA+Grease) I'm not so happy. I'm going outside to chop some wood and vent my anger. Rubber domer here I come; unless somebody has some method of getting me an extra one of these mystery pieces.


----------



## hglazm

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Model Ms use two part keycaps for most kets, so what you're seeing there is actually the lower part of the key (if you pinch the front and back of a key like Esc or one of the F keys and pull up, you'll see what I mean)

$10 for just about any Model M is a good price.

Ah. Well.
Is it possible to get replacement keys?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iAligator* 
link, please.

Got it locally, guy didnt care about it since it was just sitting in his garage.


----------



## ch_123

Some here.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Well, I broke my keyboard. Trying to take the keycap off; I snapped one of the white whatever the hell you call thems when trying to get the key off the stabilizer. Best part, I didn't even fix the squeaking. I don't know if the lubrication didn't distribute, if the key switch is bad, or what. And I've found out that THREE of the keys have this problem. Well now that I've wasted $135 (OH WAIT, $155. EMA+Grease) I'm not so happy. I'm going outside to chop some wood and vent my anger. Rubber domer here I come; unless somebody has some method of getting me an extra one of these mystery pieces.

That sucks : /. Might want to check on geekhack for replacement parts. Which keys were squeaking? I was ****ting bricks the first time I tried to remove Backspace from the stabilizer to grease. The key is to be gentle, after doing it once, it was cake.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
That sucks : /. Might want to check on geekhack for replacement parts. Which keys were squeaking? I was ****ting bricks the first time I tried to remove Backspace from the stabilizer to grease. The key is to be gentle, after doing it once, it was cake.

I spent about 15 minutes gently tugging on it, then I asserted a little bit more force and it snapped. It still didn't come out of the keycap, I had to use pliers to take it out. And the enter, backspace, and right shift keys are all squeaky.


----------



## airplaneman

Well my Das Professional S Silent just arrived...and damn this thing types nicely. The sound it makes is just fantastic, I love the clicks! and the keys feel so nice; they travel smoothly and with ease.

I just need to pick up a wrist rest for it and I'll be set.

Hands down one of the best keyboards I've ever used.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *airplaneman* 
Well my Das Professional S Silent just arrived...and damn this thing types nicely. The sound it makes is just fantastic, I love the clicks! and the keys feel so nice; they travel smoothly and with ease.

I just need to pick up a wrist rest for it and I'll be set.

Hands down one of the best keyboards I've ever used.

3M wrist rest can get it from here. $19.67 shipped
http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...er_id=!ORDERID!


----------



## airplaneman

Thanks man, I'll look into it.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I spent about 15 minutes gently tugging on it, then I asserted a little bit more force and it snapped. It still didn't come out of the keycap, I had to use pliers to take it out. And the enter, backspace, and right shift keys are all squeaky.

Did the Key become slightly loose? Once it becomes slightly loose, pulling on it does absolutely nothing. You need to then slide each side gently off of the stabilizer bar. I thought this process was really hard to describe until I saw some Korean guy take it off in a few seconds off a YouTube clip.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
Did the Key become slightly loose? Once it becomes slightly loose, pulling on it does absolutely nothing. You need to then slide each side gently off of the stabilizer bar. I thought this process was really hard to describe until I saw some Korean guy take it off in a few seconds off a YouTube clip.

Nope, nothing ever came loose. :\\


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Alright, here it goes guys. I'm about to order my Majestouch Tenkeyless Tactile Click Otaku...throwing in the lavender WASD cluster too.

BTW, is there a way I can buy a blank lavender WASD cluster and a blank red ESC key?


----------



## WTHbot

I've probably read this thread 40 times. . . And I still haven't figured out what makes these better. . .


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


I've probably read this thread 40 times. . . And I still haven't figured out what makes these better. . .


Much more pleasant to type on than a bunch of mushy rubber domes. Higher build quality, full NKRO, will last basically forever.


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ljason8eg* 
Much more pleasant to type on than a bunch of mushy rubber domes. Higher build quality, full NKRO, will last basically forever.

I can't imagine I am not enjoying my keyboard currently. . .

I guess lasting for ever would be nice though. . . .

I'm on a slim line wireless HP keyboard I bought over a year ago, and I love it cause it fits perfectly in my lap.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


I can't imagine I am not enjoying my keyboard currently. . .

I guess lasting for ever would be nice though. . . .

I'm on a slim line wireless HP keyboard I bought over a year ago, and I love it cause it fits perfectly in my lap.


Really? Those slim line HP boards are one of the worst keyboards I have ever used. Dead serious. If you don't mind using that HP keyboard over say a standard stock Dell keyboard, then I guess there's no hope for you







.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


I can't imagine I am not enjoying my keyboard currently. . .

I guess lasting for ever would be nice though. . . .

I'm on a slim line wireless HP keyboard I bought over a year ago, and I love it cause it fits perfectly in my lap.


Have you ever tried a mechanical keyboard before? If not you really cannot say you won't like them. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Mechanical keyboards are a lot like bookshelf speakers compared to computer speakers. Once people try them, generally they'll never go back to what they had. You don't see people ditching their mechanical keyboards for rubber dome keyboards. Why is this do you think?


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ljason8eg*


Have you ever tried a mechanical keyboard before? If not you really cannot say you won't like them. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Mechanical keyboards are a lot like bookshelf speakers compared to computer speakers. Once people try them, generally they'll never go back to what they had. You don't see people ditching their mechanical keyboards for rubber dome keyboards. Why is this do you think?


I'm not saying I won't like it. . . I just can't say it would be a worthwhile investment. specially when they are as expensive as they are.

Oh and this HP has been pretty damn good to me. But I use it because it is comfortable.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


I'm not saying I won't like it. . . I just can't say it would be a worthwhile investment. specially when they are as expensive as they are.

Oh and this HP has been pretty damn good to me. But I use it because it is comfortable.


Not all of them are expensive. Of course it would be a worthwhile investment, as the keyboards simply will not wear out, unlike a rubber dome keyboard. Not to mention they're far more comfortable and easy to type on.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Could send you a Compaq MX11800 for $25 shipped. Cherry MX browns, unfortunately worn down quite a bit, but still nice. Kind of like MX reds.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iAligator*


You guys are talking about the Old DeathAdder right? Cause the one I have is not glossy (matte, maybe?). I have the 3500 and I love it!


Nope. The Razer Lycosa is a keyboard.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *airplaneman*


Well my Das Professional S Silent just arrived...and damn this thing types nicely. The sound it makes is just fantastic, I love the clicks! and the keys feel so nice; they travel smoothly and with ease.

I just need to pick up a wrist rest for it and I'll be set.

Hands down one of the best keyboards I've ever used.


Welcome to the "club", so to speak!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


I've probably read this thread 40 times. . . And I still haven't figured out what makes these better. . .


Unfortunately, this is one of those things where feeling is believing: you can only truly know why a good mechanical keyboard is superior once you've finally used one. So, it's just one of those things where you almost have to take everyone at their word who know the difference due to actually owning one. For example, I can tell you right now while I am typing on this mechanical keyboard that it really is dramatically superior to all rubber dome keyboards I have ever tried, including the popular G15 and Lycosa.

So the question is: why are there so many people who, when they get a good mechanical keyboard, will never, ever, ever, ever go back to a rubber dome keyboard?

It's kinda like building your own computer for the first time: until you do it, you really don't have a true understanding of why most people who've done it will never again get another pre-built for as long as they live. It's also kinda the same as overclocking in the same sense!

Or, it's like food: take steak, for example: a man would only be able to know that the local butcher's steak is far superior to the best steak at the local big-name grocery store once he's tried it. He could have 50 people tell him that it's better and still not be convinced because he's already extremely happy with the best steak at the local big-name grocery store. But once he tries that local butcher's steak, he is flat-out amazed at how much better it is and will never again eat that crap steak at the big-name grocery store.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


I can't imagine I am not enjoying my keyboard currently. . .


I enjoyed every rubber dome keyboard I have ever used. But this mechanical keyboard I am typing on is actually _fun_ to use. It's a truly enjoyable experience. It makes me wonder how I ever enjoyed using any rubber dome keyboard.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


I guess lasting for ever would be nice though. . . .


Most mechanical keyboards will easily last 20 years. Most rubber dome keyboards last 7-10 years on average. Some do last a little bit longer, but it also depends on how much it has been used. But a mechanical keyboard will still feel brand new after 10 years while a rubber dome would definitely feel worn-out. Even after 15 years, a mechanical keyboard can still feel pretty brand new. After 20? Yeah, even after 20 (based on what I've read).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


I'm on a slim line wireless HP keyboard I bought over a year ago, and I love it cause it fits perfectly in my lap.


So does the mechanical keyboard I am using.









But I need to say something important here: I practically _live_ on my computer. But for somebody who maybe only uses their computer like a half an hour a day or less - it would actually be a huge waste of money to get a mechanical keyboard. But I am just being practical. To be quite honest, I feel that it's worth the money no matter how little a person uses their computer. However, I like to be fair so I try to remain practical.

Although, a person who uses their computer as much as I do is much more capable of appreciating the superiority of a good mechanical keyboard as opposed to somebody who "almost never" uses their computer. I mean, the more the person uses their keyboard, the more appreciation they will have for how superior a good mechanical keyboard is.

So the best question I might be able to ask you is this: how many hours per day do you believe you use your computer?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


I'm not saying I won't like it. . . I just can't say it would be a worthwhile investment. specially when they are as expensive as they are.

Oh and this HP has been pretty damn good to me. But I use it because it is comfortable.


The Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO that I'm using is *significantly* more comfortable than any rubber dome keyboard I have ever used - including both the G15 and the Lycosa (or, perhaps especially those keyboards).


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Most mechanical keyboards will easily last 20 years. Most rubber dome keyboards last 7-10 years on average. Some do last a little bit longer, but it also depends on how much it has been used. But a mechanical keyboard will still feel brand new after 10 years while a rubber dome would definitely feel worn-out. Even after 15 years, a mechanical keyboard can still feel pretty brand new. After 20? Yeah, even after 20 (based on what I've read).


Just to drive this point home: Just take a look at all the Model Ms being sold on ebay. A lot of them were manufactured as early as 1985, and used in the WORST possible conditions for it, like in machine shops or a mechanic's garage. Yet they still work. And still feel pretty good. And worst case scenario, replacement springs and keycaps are readily available for a few cents apiece.

So just imagine having paid the $200 for a new Model M in 1985, and having used it until today. $200 over 25 years averages out to $8 a year. And that's _if_ it even broke down.

Of course, a lot of us couldn't stop at just _one_ keyboard, lol.


----------



## canadianpanda

I was thinking about getting a mechanical keyboard because I use my computer everyday but I just can't decide on which one or why that one. I play a lot of games but also type quite a few papers for university. Any suggestions?

Awesome OP btw. I would have never thought about going mechanical if it was not for this thread.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *canadianpanda*


I was thinking about getting a mechanical keyboard because I use my computer everyday but I just can't decide on which one or why that one. I play a lot of games but also type quite a few papers for university. Any suggestions?

Awesome OP btw. I would have never thought about going mechanical if it was not for this thread.


Brown switches like on the Das S silent are a good starting point, as they are a pretty neutral switch. Read up on those a little bit, and try to think if you would like more click, maybe no click at all, or maybe if you would like the keys to be firmer.


----------



## Eqstacy

My uncle has this exact same Ambra mechanical keyboard shown below. Its an IBM model M thats been branded Ambra instead. Felt reallllly good to type on.


----------



## Marin

If there was a keyboard with Cherry Blues that has the same type of keycaps as Topre I'd be happy.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Just to drive this point home: Just take a look at all the Model Ms being sold on ebay. A lot of them were manufactured as early as 1985, and used in the WORST possible conditions for it, like in machine shops or a mechanic's garage. Yet they still work. And still feel pretty good. And worst case scenario, replacement springs and keycaps are readily available for a few cents apiece.

So just imagine having paid the $200 for a new Model M in 1985, and having used it until today. $200 over 25 years averages out to $8 a year. And that's _if_ it even broke down.

Of course, a lot of us couldn't stop at just _one_ keyboard, lol.


hehehe it's like Pringles: once you pop, you can't stop! Of course, I'd need to replace "pop" with perhaps "click". But then it doesn't rhyme.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *canadianpanda*


I was thinking about getting a mechanical keyboard because I use my computer everyday but I just can't decide on which one or why that one. I play a lot of games but also type quite a few papers for university. Any suggestions?

Awesome OP btw. I would have never thought about going mechanical if it was not for this thread.


It is definitely a decision that I believe shouldn't be entered into quickly (or lightly). After all, the keyboard is the primary input device or connection between the computer and its user. So, spend as much time as you can making sure that you get a good one! After all, it's perfectly ok if it takes over a month to finally make a purchase. It took me close to 2 months.







But I am extremely happy with my keyboard, and I know that I got the absolute best keyboard for me. I sincerely doubt that I would have been able to do that if I had spent perhaps 2 weeks shopping around and doing research.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Brown switches like on the Das S silent are a good starting point, as they are a pretty neutral switch. Read up on those a little bit, and try to think if you would like more click, maybe no click at all, or maybe if you would like the keys to be firmer.


This!

By "click", this is referring to the sound the switch would make. It is an independent sound that it makes all on its own. So if you see a YouTube video of somebody typing in a keyboard that uses the Cherry MX Browns, then what you're hearing is the sound of the keys and the sound of the user bottoming out. The switches themselves don't make any sound. But the Cherry MX Blues do, and most people feel that it's a pleasing and satisfying sound.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Eqstacy*


My uncle has this exact same Ambra mechanical keyboard shown below. Its an IBM model M thats been branded Ambra instead. Felt reallllly good to type on.










That looks really nice! It even has different Alt keys than I'm used to seeing on IBM-branded Model Ms!


----------



## GanjaSMK

Quick question:

Will a green USB-to-PS/2 adapter work for connecting an ABS M1 to PS/2?


----------



## iAligator

Quote:



Originally Posted by *airplaneman*


Well my Das Professional S Silent just arrived...and damn this thing types nicely. The sound it makes is just fantastic, I love the clicks! and the keys feel so nice; they travel smoothly and with ease.

I just need to pick up a wrist rest for it and I'll be set.

Hands down one of the best keyboards I've ever used.


I'm getting the exact same one very soon, hopefully. Glad to know it worked out good for you. How long did it take them to ship/process your order?


----------



## fssbzz

青轴机械 means cherry mx brown? anyone here know? lol


----------



## Crazy9000

use google translate. All I see are blocks







.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


青轴机械 means cherry mx brown? anyone here know? lol


From some quick searching it appears to be MX Blue. Google Translate says Green but all the search results show keyboards with MX Blues.


----------



## fssbzz

yea from i read it is green..in chinese but lol
ok thanks man


----------



## godofdeath

anyone one know where to get cherry fitted wasd keys?
like how filco has those purply ones
but for das and wont rub off like i heard of filcos


----------



## fssbzz

http://shop33611660.taobao.com/?NUM=33611660
which ducky from here is brown switches?
all i read is blue switch or black switch.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


http://shop33611660.taobao.com/?NUM=33611660
which ducky from here is brown switches?
all i read is blue switch or black switch.


Not doing for you what you can do yourself man.

http://translate.google.com/#

Just past the URL in and have fun digging. I use chrome, so it automatically asks me if I'd like to translate.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Not doing for you what you can do yourself man.

http://translate.google.com/#

Just past the URL in and have fun digging. I use chrome, so it automatically asks me if I'd like to translate.


i did..that's why i ask..
and i can read.
all i see is black switches, blue switches.. and im really not sure which is brown switches...
some of it says Black-tea or tea switches..i assume thts brown switches?


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


i did..that's why i ask..
and i can read.
all i see is black switches, blue switches.. and im really not sure which is brown switches...
some of it says Black-tea or tea switches..i assume thts brown switches?


I dug around, but a translated site is a mess. Had to give.

Why such interest in a ducky anyways? For the money you're going to spend, you could get a Realforce.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


http://shop33611660.taobao.com/?NUM=33611660
which ducky from here is brown switches?
all i read is blue switch or black switch.


http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=3718772070

I isolated the color part of the character sets used in the description and did some translating, and came up with that one; it SHOULD be MX Brown.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


I dug around, but a translated site is a mess. Had to give.

Why such interest in a ducky anyways? For the money you're going to spend, you could get a Realforce.


they doesn't sound as good as brown switches.
got a friend going to China pretty soon, going to ask him to help me getting one.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


they doesn't sound as good as brown switches.
got a friend going to China pretty soon, going to ask him to help me getting one.


Topre switches are supposed to be damn awesome. That's going to be my next keyboard investment (that or a HHKB).

But, I suppose if you aren't having to spend the money on getting the Ducky imported, it may be worth it to hunt one down.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Topre switches are supposed to be damn awesome. That's going to be my next keyboard investment (that or a HHKB).

But, I suppose if you aren't having to spend the money on getting the Ducky imported, it may be worth it to hunt one down.


oh man.thts sounds good too.
let me do some research.


----------



## iAligator

Okay, I think I'm going to go with the Professional Model S Silent. Anyone want to change my mind? Something cheaper but just as good? Looks pretty damn awesome. The silent one feels just as good to type on, right?


----------



## WTHbot

Well I have no access to one and I'm not gonna shell out another 80 - 2400 buck keyboard. I'm pretty sure I'd love a good mechanical keyboard. . .

But until I can feel it for myself I guess I won't know what you guys are talking about.

Oh and I have no interest in gaming keyboards, I hardly game as it is.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


Well I have no access to one and I'm not gonna shell out another 80 - 2400 buck keyboard. I'm pretty sure I'd love a good mechanical keyboard. . .

But until I can feel it for myself I guess I won't know what you guys are talking about.

Oh and I have no interest in gaming keyboards, I hardly game as it is.


Next time you think about spending $100 on your computer, get a board with cherry blue switches. Chances are it'll be the best $100 upgrade you've done in a long time.


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Next time you think about spending $100 on your computer, get a board with cherry blue switches. Chances are it'll be the best $100 upgrade you've done in a long time.


I unno, an SSD would be pretty nice. Oh and a working DVD drive would be good too.


----------



## W4LNUT5

I don't have an answer for this poor guy. Maybe someone here does

http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...-keyboard.html


----------



## Aeonus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


oh man.thts sounds good too.
let me do some research.


There's a Realforce on display (can try it etc, just not connected to anything) in a certain store in Finland. I tried it just for the kicks, but somehow it didn't feel as special as I thought it would've. I was expecting it to feel "clear & crispy" but the only thing that comes to mind now that I recall it some time later is "sticky".

I'm by no means a mechanical keyboard pro, this is just my short-term opinion.


----------



## Marin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


I don't have an answer for this poor guy. Maybe someone here does

http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...-keyboard.html


Posted.


----------



## fssbzz

is Ione U9BL gaming board blue switches?
why they made blue switches for gaming keyboard?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


is Ione U9BL gaming board blue switches?
why they made blue switches for gaming keyboard?


Because they don't know any better. Das is doing the same thing: they should offer a keyboard with the Cherry MX Blacks but they don't.

However, it's not like the Cherry MX Blues are horrible for amateur gamers! But for hardcore, competitive and professional gamers, the difference between the Cherry MX Blues and Blacks can mean the difference between life and death.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Because they don't know any better. Das is doing the same thing: they should offer a keyboard with the Cherry MX Blacks but they don't.

However, it's not like the Cherry MX Blues are horrible for amateur gamers! But for hardcore, competitive and professional gamers, the difference between the Cherry MX Blues and Blacks can mean the difference between life and death.


I think it's possible an amateur gamer to have issues with the blues, just more likely for a "hardcore" person to care. It just depends on if you lift your finger a lot.

If anyone did a study comparing users that can game with blues, and those that can't, I think it would be very interesting.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


i did..that's why i ask..
and i can read.
all i see is black switches, blue switches.. and im really not sure which is brown switches...
some of it says Black-tea or tea switches..i assume thts brown switches?


Google translate translates mx blues as green axis and mx browns as tea axis or something like that.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


Google translate translates mx blues as green axis and mx browns as tea axis or something like that.


Kind of weird because the colors seem to go back and forth through google's translator okay. The words must get mixed or something, IDK how the Chinese language works lol.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *iAligator*


Okay, I think I'm going to go with the Professional Model S Silent. Anyone want to change my mind? Something cheaper but just as good? Looks pretty damn awesome. The silent one feels just as good to type on, right?


Did you use the student discount? Or did you even try to obtain one, lol?

Anyway, no one answered my question. Is there a blank set of lavender WASD keys and blank red ESC key for the Filco keyboards?


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Kind of weird because the colors seem to go back and forth through google's translator okay. The words must get mixed or something, IDK how the Chinese language works lol.


well ya, google translate is right.
the website stated it is green, tea, black tea, and red.
i can read chinese, and that's really what it says lol


----------



## fssbzz

i really want wait for the Xarmor 
because of it's awesome function and media key..
but one thing, it is blue mx switches.
















especially the USB hub, and microphone plus speaker thingy..
that is so awesome


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Eqstacy*


My uncle has this exact same Ambra mechanical keyboard shown below. Its an IBM model M thats been branded Ambra instead. Felt reallllly good to type on.










Ambra was a subsidiary of IBM that made low end PCs. Their German keyboards had awesome keycaps -










Unfortunately everywhere else got standard keycaps

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Topre switches are supposed to be damn awesome. That's going to be my next keyboard investment (that or a HHKB).


A lot of people feel disappointed by them when they buy them because they feel more like rubber domes than mechanical switches. The thing is though that they feel very smooth, and don't have the friction like Cherry and Alps switches do. They're my favorite switch type after Buckling Springs.

Then again, I did get my HHKB for around €110 shipped from the US =]

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Kind of weird because the colors seem to go back and forth through google's translator okay. The words must get mixed or something, IDK how the Chinese language works lol.


Yeah, AFAIK, the word for green and blue is the same or something. And the "Tea Axis" is what they call the brown switches.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


i really want wait for the Xarmor 
because of it's awesome function and media key..
but one thing, it is blue mx switches.
















especially the USB hub, and microphone plus speaker thingy..
that is so awesome


I can understand the backlighting, but the USB hub, IMO, is unnecessary, especially when you have a computer that is plenty full of them. Same with microphone and speaker ports, which are also on your computer.

A keyboard, to me, has to excel in one aspect...and that is the overall typing experience (NKRO, overall feel of the keys, how efficient and easy it is to use and type on, etc.).


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


I can understand the backlighting, but the USB hub, IMO, is unnecessary, especially when you have a computer that is plenty full of them. Same with microphone and speaker ports, which are also on your computer.

A keyboard, to me, has to excel in one aspect...and that is the overall typing experience (NKRO, overall feel of the keys, how efficient and easy it is to use and type on, etc.).


For people like me who strongly prefer a wired mouse, having a USB port on the keyboard is awesome. It allows me to keep a wireless feeling (physically speaking) while still benefiting from the wired connection.

But at the same time, I am doing just fine without it because I bought a USB extension cable and attached it in a convenient place so that it's like I have a USB port on my keyboard.


----------



## airplaneman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


I can understand the backlighting, but the USB hub, IMO, is unnecessary, especially when you have a computer that is plenty full of them. Same with microphone and speaker ports, which are also on your computer.

A keyboard, to me, has to excel in one aspect...and that is the overall typing experience (NKRO, overall feel of the keys, how efficient and easy it is to use and type on, etc.).


I agree with part of your statement - about the headphone and mic jacks. Most people just plug straight into their sound cards, since you get the best quality that way, so I don't feel that there is a point to having those jacks on the keyboard.

I really like the USB hub though, since some people don't sit right next to their cases, or they don't have front USB ports and the back of the case is against a wall (like me). For people like that, the USB hub makes it so much easier to plug in flash drives or camera cables etc.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

The USB hub is a "nice to have" thing. My Dell Ultrasharp U2311H has 2 on the side and two behind the monitor (have my mouse hooked up to that) so I don't "need" one on the keyboard. At the same time, if my Filco came with one, I'd hardly complain about it.

I can see having the headphone and mic jacks IF they plug into the headphone and mic (not speaker) jacks on my sound card. Then they're convenient extensions. However, since most games support putting the headset audio on a seperate sound device (except source games...damn you Valve!), I typically use the USB adapter that came with my headset and just have the voice coming over the headset and regular sound coming through the speakers.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing*


The USB hub is a "nice to have" thing. My Dell Ultrasharp U2311H has 2 on the side and two behind the monitor (have my mouse hooked up to that) so I don't "need" one on the keyboard. At the same time, if my Filco came with one, I'd hardly complain about it.

I can see having the headphone and mic jacks IF they plug into the headphone and mic (not speaker) jacks on my sound card. Then they're convenient extensions. However, since most games support putting the headset audio on a seperate sound device (except source games...damn you Valve!), I typically use the USB adapter that came with my headset and just have the voice coming over the headset and regular sound coming through the speakers.


I agree 100% with this.

Having USB on the keyboard is super nice if you have a USB drive....maybe I am just too lazy to bend over all the time.

Also, I wish Das made a Ten-keyless design.


----------



## hglazm

What switch type would be most like buckling springs, but more quiet?
I want to get something as close as I can to another Model M for my other house, because the walls there are thin and clacking away at night will drive people nuts.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hglazm* 
What switch type would be most like buckling springs, but more quiet?
I want to get something as close as I can to another Model M for my other house, because the walls there are thin and clacking away at night will drive people nuts.

MX-Clear or MX-Black.

BS = 65G Tactile
MX-Clear = 55G Tactile
MX-Black = 60G Linear


----------



## hglazm

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
MX-Clear or MX-Black.

BS = 65G Tactile
MX-Clear = 55G Tactile
MX-Black = 60G Linear

Any suggestions on a good clear?


----------



## airplaneman

My typing speed has increased ~13wpm since I switched from my Sidewinder X6 to the Das..no idea why, but it did. Just figured I'd let you all know, since I know you guys care







.


----------



## hglazm

Quote:


Originally Posted by *airplaneman* 
My typing speed has increased ~13wpm since I switched from my Sidewinder X6 to the Das..no idea why, but it did. Just figured I'd let you all know, since I know you guys care







.

Mine shot up 25 on average moving from my illuminated to my model m.
I think it's because I'm more aware of when the key actuates and I'm less prone to accidental hits.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Guys. It came. I have the box in my hand. MAJESTOUCH BROWN TENKEYLESS


----------



## airplaneman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hglazm* 
Mine shot up 25 on average moving from my illuminated to my model m.
I think it's because I'm more aware of when the key actuates and I'm less prone to accidental hits.

Yeah, I find I can feel when the keystroke registers better with the mechanical switch, that and the layout of my previous keyboard wasn't very good.


----------



## airplaneman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
Guys. It came. I have the box in my hand.

I came, you came, we all came for... keyboards!


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Omg yes ye syes ey sey lasiuyf;oaisduf;alsidjf; YTES:S:YES!!!!!

I love this thing already it is soooooooooooooo nice









LOVING IT!!! The size is so nice and the feel of everything is so awesome. This is so easy to type on and I can type so fast I feel like omg who wants to race? I will destroy everyone!! lol, no, but the difference between my old rubber cap or whatever keyboard is just insane, this is so much nicer I am loving loving loving it!!!!!

Tenkeyless FTW!! Wow I am really really pleased right now. I feel like my power rating on my workstation just increased 10 fold, having the keyboard so nice and small and my mouse right MUCH closer now it is very very nice. yay.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

I am bottoming out but I actually don't mind and I actually prefer to type this way because then I am sure that I am actually hitting every key you know what I mean?


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
I am bottoming out but I actually don't mind and I actually prefer to type this way because then I am sure that I am actually hitting every key you know what I mean?

Being a user of Linear switch KBs, I know exactly what you mean







.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
I am bottoming out but I actually don't mind and I actually prefer to type this way because then I am sure that I am actually hitting every key you know what I mean?

That's why I like the clicky, sharper switches more







(Cherry Blues, White Alps, Buckling Springs, SMK Monterey....).

But as long as you enjoy typing on it that's all that matters


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nijikon5* 
Being a user of Linear switch KBs, I know exactly what you mean







.

So browns are 45g up to the actuation point and then afterwards they are heavier? It sure seems that way in my initial testing of just very slowly pushing a key down.

I'm guessing reds are 45g the whole way through?


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Who wants to race? You get 3 tries, screen shot your best score:

http://speedtest.10-fast-fingers.com/


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
Who wants to race? You get 3 tries, screen shot your best score:

http://speedtest.10-fast-fingers.com/

That typing test sucks, it's so much slower to type random words than proper sentences. I'm only getting ~100WPM on it


----------



## LarsMarkelson

That was pretty fun. I find that I can bust out 10-20 words extremely fast and then I have to take a break, I think it's just mental overload. That run, my best run, actually I tried doing a steady pace the whole way through and it was the highest score.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
That typing test sucks, it's so much slower to type random words than proper sentences. I'm only getting ~100WPM on it









Got a link to one you like?


----------



## Manyak

typingtest.com
typeracer.com


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
typingtest.com
typeracer.com

Typeracer is awesome fun! A lot harder for me though, I think it has to do with the punctuation. I'm learning too! Just did a Shakespeare passage


----------



## W4LNUT5

Lars. I know you're excited, but the EDIT button exists for a reason. Please refrain from double posting all the time.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Aesthetically this keyboard is so pretty. Everything is in the right place as far as keys go for me, and the font and feel of the keys is A+

(best keyboard I've used in the past is a Rosewill membrane







)

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Lars. I know you're excited, but the EDIT button exists for a reason. Please refrain from double posting all the time.


Haha, sorry. I'll be more aware of that.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hglazm*


What switch type would be most like buckling springs, but more quiet?
I want to get something as close as I can to another Model M for my other house, because the walls there are thin and clacking away at night will drive people nuts.


Since the Buckling Springs are tactile and clicky, the switches that would be the most similar are switches like the Cherry MX Blues. They're tactile and clicky, and the click is subtle. Even though my keyboard is tactile and clicky, I can still remain stealthy by just being more careful about not bottoming out.

The Cherry MX Blacks are non-tactile and non-clicky. In other words, they are linear.

The Cherry MX Clears are tactile, but non-clicky. They are like a stiffer version of Cherry MX Browns (they're said to require 55g of force as opposed to the 45g of the Browns).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*


I am bottoming out but I actually don't mind and I actually prefer to type this way because then I am sure that I am actually hitting every key you know what I mean?


Check this out: I have something for you to try. Hover your wrists while you type. I mean, hover them maybe 1-2 inches above the wrist rest if you have one, or 2-4 inches above the desk if you _don't_ have a wrist rest. This is actually the correct way to type, and it's easiest to do this with mechanical switches because they don't have to be bottomed out in order for the keystroke to be sent to the computer. Plus, it makes all typing much easier.


----------



## Crazy9000

I'm terrible at typing tests, I can't read and type at the same time. lol


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Since the Buckling Springs are tactile and clicky, the switches that would be the most similar are switches like the Cherry MX Blues. They're tactile and clicky, and the click is subtle. Even though my keyboard is tactile and clicky, I can still remain stealthy by just being more careful about not bottoming out.

The Cherry MX Blacks are non-tactile and non-clicky. In other words, they are linear.

The Cherry MX Clears are tactile, but non-clicky. They are like a stiffer version of Cherry MX Browns (they're said to require 55g of force as opposed to the 45g of the Browns).

Check this out: I have something for you to try. Hover your wrists while you type. I mean, hover them maybe 1-2 inches above the wrist rest if you have one, or 2-4 inches above the desk if you _don't_ have a wrist rest. This is actually the correct way to type, and it's easiest to do this with mechanical switches because they don't have to be bottomed out in order for the keystroke to be sent to the computer. Plus, it makes all typing much easier.


Yeah definitely. I've been trying this out and it's definitely the fastest way for me to type. My finger have the freedom to move wherever they want to. Man I just typed this post like that and it was a breeze, so beautiful, almost brings a tear to my eye.

I have a question for you. Cherry Brown = 45g of force to the actuation point. After the actuation point it's more right? It sure feels like it.

Going to do an experiment now and see how I can type by using the least amount of force possible and not trying to bottom out. Oooh this is funnnyyyy, it's like I'm caressing the keyboard, giving it the lightest massage possible. I'm getting hard.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hglazm*


Any suggestions on a good clear?


Deck Legend Ice Tactile.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*


Yeah definitely. I've been trying this out and it's definitely the fastest way for me to type. My finger have the freedom to move wherever they want to. Man I just typed this post like that and it was a breeze, so beautiful, almost brings a tear to my eye.


I'll never forget when I first started typing like this on my Majestouch. My Majestouch is my first and only keyboard which came to me in the mail 4Â½ months ago on March 9th. Now, I've been touch typing for at least 15 years, and I've always kept my wrists planted while typing out of fear of getting fatigued from hovering my wrists! So, when I began typing while hovering my wrists, I just sat there like this:







It was awesome. So, I've been typing that way ever since, and each and every keystroke makes it completely impossible for me to forget how much I love my mechanical keyboard!!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*


I have a question for you. Cherry Brown = 45g of force to the actuation point. After the actuation point it's more right? It sure feels like it.


Indeed! But I don't know how much force it's said to have at the point just before bottoming out (like perhaps a half a millimeter before bottoming out).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*


Going to do an experiment now and see how I can type by using the least amount of force possible and not trying to bottom out. Oooh this is funnnyyyy, it's like I'm caressing the keyboard, giving it the lightest massage possible. I'm getting hard.


Oh, this has got to be he best post in this thread. lol

But exactly! I first discovered this almost on accident while practicing not bottoming out in Notepad back when I had only owned this keyboard for maybe a couple of weeks. All of the sudden I noticed I was hovering my wrists, and that's when I went







The rest is history.


----------



## wh-ATI

Like half of Manyak's posts are from this thread. ;P


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wh-ATI*


Like half of Manyak's posts are from this thread. ;P


Of course! He started this thread.


----------



## fssbzz

hey i just bought a Das Pro Silent.
Cherry Mx Brown $102.6
with student account. 
this is the promo code.
i wonder if it will works for others.

edit: deleted code









24% off


----------



## ljason8eg

Yeah that's the code and its probably not wise to post it here. They're doing students a favor. If everyone (non students) takes advantage of it there's a possibility they could cancel the program. Then everyone loses.


----------



## fssbzz

edit my post and deleted lol


----------



## fssbzz

*
$169.99*
http://www.xarmor-usa.com/xarmor-u9bl.html


----------



## Crazy9000

At that price you can get a Deck :l.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


At that price you can get a Deck :l.


yea i was really thinking about that too.
but this got those USB hub and the audio output thingy..
the mx blue really turn me down lol


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


yea i was really thinking about that too.
but this got those USB hub and the audio output thingy..
the mx blue really turn me down lol


But I doubt the quality quite matches that of a Deck. I love mine, and I'm quite happy without a USB hub in my keyboard (my usb devices are never unplugged/replugged with the exception of my flash drives. So easy access isn't a necessity)


----------



## fssbzz

the review:
http://www.xarmor-usa.com/trial-run-...rmor-u9bl.html
it comes with free 4 blank key cap + a key puller.
and a hand rest.
is still lil cheaper then DECK, shipping is cheaper then deck too


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

I've actually wondered for a while now... do MX Blues only make the click sound when you bottom out, or do they do that once you've actuated the switch, regardless of force? Because if it's the former, I might just get some interest in a cheaper MX Blue keyboard. Watching videos doesn't help much since everyone seems to bottom out for the purpose of letting you know how it sounds for it to bottom out.

Can't seem to make up my mind about this sort of thing, I know...


----------



## TwoCables

LOL it says "Gaming cluster with anti-ghosting capability". Really? On a mechanical keyboard that has full N-Key Rollover? What? Over?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


I've actually wondered for a while now... do MX Blues only make the click sound when you bottom out, or do they do that once you've actuated the switch, regardless of force? Because if it's the former, I might just get some interest in a cheaper MX Blue keyboard. Watching videos doesn't help much since everyone seems to bottom out for the purpose of letting you know how it sounds for it to bottom out.

Can't seem to make up my mind about this sort of thing, I know...










The "click" refers to the sound that the switch itself makes. The sound of bottoming out is entirely different and both are independent from each other. That's why the Cherry MX Browns are said to be "tactile, but non-clicky".

The click of the Cherry MX Blues is subtle and happens at the point of actuation which is approximately halfway down. The sound of bottoming out is described as "clacky".

Here is one of several videos available on YouTube where this is demonstrated fairly well (although there are videos that do it way better, but I like that this one is in HD):






I set this to play beginning at 2:50 (please forgive him for his strange English at this moment of the video. I think he had a brainfart).


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But YouTube is not playing this video for me right now, so I am unable to tell you exactly where he demonstrates the clicks. But I think it's about 3/4 the way through the video.


Interesting, I just finished watching that exact video, so it does work here... hm. Guess I'm still indecisive.

I'll try to help others help me decide by saying that, even if I look at the keys while typing, I press down until I feel it actuate, no further, and a desirable switch is one that makes as little noise as possible when not bottoming out. I don't have a force requirement at all as for about 3 years of school I used Model Ms, so I'm hardened against keys that need tons of force and don't mind them at all.







Price? Anything under 100 if possible.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Interesting, I just finished watching that exact video, so it does work here... hm. Guess I'm still indecisive.

I'll try to help others help me decide by saying that, even if I look at the keys while typing, I press down until I feel it actuate, and a desirable switch is one that makes as little noise as possible when not bottoming out. I don't have a force requirement at all as for about 3 years of school I used Model Ms, so I'm hardened against keys that need tons of force and don't mind them at all.










I got the video to play by rebooting.







All I was saying was that it wasn't playing for _me_. I mean, I had no doubt that it was going to play for you.

Anyway, there are almost basically three types of switches:

Non-tactile and non-clicky (like the Cherry MX Blacks)
Tactile, but non-clicky (like the Cherry MX Browns and Clears)
Tactile and clicky (like the Cherry MX Blues)
So, it's either a click, or it's no click.

However, may I ask why you want the switch itself to make no sound as opposed to a click?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


However, may I ask why you want the switch itself to make no sound as opposed to a click?


Mainly because, if I'm either on Skype or listening to music and typing at the same time, I don't want to have to hear over the keyboard. This is why I got the Illuminated in the first place, and why I got so pissed off when I ruined it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Mainly because, if I'm either on Skype or listening to music and typing at the same time, I don't want to have to hear over the keyboard. This is why I got the Illuminated in the first place, and why I got so pissed off when I ruined it.


Oh. Well, the sound of the clicks is quieter than the sound of bottoming out, but the switches still produces a sound (which I suppose can be just enough even though it's quiet), so the best switch type might be a tactile but non-clicky one so that you can not bottom out and make very little sound. I hear that the easiest switches to not bottom out on are the Cherry MX Browns.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

So I'm back where I started, looking for a cheap MX Brown keyboard. Thought I'd feel better being sure of that, but somehow I'm not...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


So I'm back where I started, looking for a cheap MX Brown keyboard. Thought I'd feel better being sure of that, but somehow I'm not...










Hmm... then what are your feelings on the i-Rocks KR-6230? It has Cherry MX Browns, but the big Enter and small Backspace keys.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Hmm... then what are your feelings on the i-Rocks KR-6230? It has Cherry MX Browns, but the big Enter and small Backspace keys.


I don't mind the Enter and Backspace keys, tbh. I used keyboards with that layout until around 1999, so I'm used to that, as well; in fact I might go as far as to say I quite prefer the ISO layout, but that's somewhat of a stretch.









What I don't like is having the arrow keys as part of the main key set; I am used to having that completely separate. Plus I could have sworn there was some kind of quality issue surrounding i-Rocks keyboards, but I don't remember where I read about those.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


I don't mind the Enter and Backspace keys, tbh. I used keyboards with that layout until around 1999, so I'm used to that, as well; in fact I might go as far as to say I quite prefer the ISO layout, but that's somewhat of a stretch.









What I don't like is having the arrow keys as part of the main key set; I am used to having that completely separate. Plus I could have sworn there was some kind of quality issue surrounding i-Rocks keyboards, but I don't remember where I read about those.


Yeah, that keyboard would piss me off. hehe


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


So I'm back where I started, looking for a cheap MX Brown keyboard. Thought I'd feel better being sure of that, but somehow I'm not...










http://datacal-overstock.amazonwebst...ource=froogle?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


http://datacal-overstock.amazonwebst...ource=froogle?


I had seen that but was apprehensive because of how much Cherry has been cheaping out on everything BUT the switches with more recent keyboards. Plus it's still over 100 dollars... :/


----------



## W4LNUT5

Could always bite the bullet and grab a Deck (Cherry MX Clears and industrial back-lighting. Clears are stiffer browns)


----------



## DeckerDontPlay

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
LOL it says "Gaming cluster with anti-ghosting capability". Really? On a mechanical keyboard that has full N-Key Rollover? What? Over?

That was pretty lol worthy.

Typing on my new Filco is way different. Different in a good way though. I think Im in love, dont tell the wife.


----------



## hglazm

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Could always bite the bullet and grab a Deck (Cherry MX Clears and industrial back-lighting. Clears are stiffer browns)

Can you turn the backlighting off on decks? I'm interested in getting some MX Clears.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hglazm* 
Can you turn the backlighting off on decks? I'm interested in getting some MX Clears.

Yes you can adjust the level of brightness, or turn it all the way off.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hglazm* 
Can you turn the backlighting off on decks? I'm interested in getting some MX Clears.

Yep. 7 levels (including off).

I leave it on Lvl-4 myself.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hglazm* 
Can you turn the backlighting off on decks? I'm interested in getting some MX Clears.

Yeah you can. I personally like Level 3 brightness myself.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Could always bite the bullet and grab a Deck (Cherry MX Clears and industrial back-lighting. Clears are stiffer browns)

I'd love to if they weren't so expensive... and I know exactly why they're expensive, but still...


----------



## jbrown

550 page thread on keybaords. Holy crap.. Maybe I should get one?


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jbrown* 
550 page thread on keybaords. Holy crap.. Maybe I should get one?

yea you should.
once you get it, you cant even quit even you join mechanical keyboard rehab..


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *DeckerDontPlay*


That was pretty lol worthy.

Typing on my new Filco is way different. Different in a good way though. I think Im in love, dont tell the wife.


For me, it was love at first click! But that's because I have the Tactile Click.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *jbrown*


550 page thread on keybaords. Holy crap.. Maybe I should get one?


Indeed! Once you get a good mechanical keyboard, all popular rubber dome keyboards (such as the Razer boards) seem like overpriced junk.


----------



## xquisit

Looking for a keyboard in the $55-$100 range.

Don't care for macro keys (if they have any), but I wouldn't mind illuminated keys (or a classy look with none).

I would be MMO/FPS gaming 90% of the time, but when school starts I would be typing 40% of the time.

Let me know, and thanks for any links in advance.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xquisit* 
Looking for a keyboard in the $55-$100 range.

Don't care for macro keys (if they have any), but I wouldn't mind illuminated keys (or a classy look with none).

I would be MMO/FPS gaming 90% of the time, but when school starts I would be typing 40% of the time.

Let me know, and thanks for any links in advance.

For you, you should buy the Das Keyboard with a student discount. Look here, and follow the instructions to obtain one. The discount is usually 24%, making the Professional and Ultimate Model S keyboards $98 shipped, and the Professional and Ultimate Model S Silent keyboards $102 shipped. Very, very affordable deal, especially for a good mechanical keyboard. The blank and inscribed keyboards cost exactly the same.


----------



## xquisit

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
For you, you should buy the Das Keyboard with a student discount. Look here, and follow the instructions to obtain one. The discount is usually 24%, making the Professional and Ultimate Model S keyboards $98 shipped, and the Professional and Ultimate Model S Silent keyboards $102 shipped. Very, very affordable deal, especially for a good mechanical keyboard. The blank and inscribed keyboards cost exactly the same.

I see four different types, which one do you recommend?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xquisit* 
I see four different types, which one do you recommend?

That depends entirely on you, actually. The "Silent" models have the Cherry MX Browns, and the ones that are _not_ the "Silent" models have the Cherry MX Blues. Beyond that, the only other difference is between the Professional and Ultimate: the Professional has printed (laser etched) keys while the Ultimate has blank keys.

The only reason why the Silent models are called "Silent" is because the switch itself doesn't make a sound. But the keyboard can still be called a "clacky" keyboard if bottoming out all the time (pushing the keys down all the way until they hit). The non-Silent models have the Cherry MX Blues which make a click sound approximately halfway through the keystroke. This click is kinda like the click that a retractable pen makes, but quieter.

Both switches are tactile.


----------



## jbrown

:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 

Indeed! Once you get a good mechanical keyboard, all popular rubber dome keyboards (such as the Razer boards) seem like overpriced junk.

Ofcourse you named exactly what I have


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jbrown* 
:

Ofcourse you named exactly what I have


















Don't worry. A lot of people have the same problem too. This thread is for those who are interested in making the switch, and it seems like you are making the right move.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xquisit* 
I see four different types, which one do you recommend?

Making the decision between having inscribed keys or blank keys is easy. That's completely up to you. If you are a touch typist who would find inscribed keys annoying or ruining that "uber" look, then go with blank keys. If you need the keys inscribed, especially for the number line and all its symbols above the main keyboard, then buy the inscribed keys. Inscribed or blank, they cost exactly the same. And don't worry about inscribed keys rubbing off after several years. Das has laser etched the characters into the key, so they won't rub off as easily as say, a pad printed keyboard.

Now making the decision between the silent and non-silent model is a little more difficult. The silent model uses brown switches while the non-silent model uses blue switches. They differ in both sound and feel and can therefore affect gaming and typing experience. Generally, the advice is people who prefer typing a lot should get the blue switches, while those who are 50/50 gaming and typing go with the brown switches. Of course, there are a few exceptions...some people prefer blue switches and still game on them, while others prefer brown switches for their ease and comfort. It's something you should research...the OP in the beginning of this thread goes into a lot more detail about the differences in the color switches and geekhack.org can serve as a great resource if you want to check them out.

Good luck in your search







.


----------



## The Master Chief

Got my tenkeyless today.

I love it!

For gaming its awesome. I don't know about typing though, I think I like my IBM m2 for typing.

This has black switches however. Which are for gamers more or less.

Im happy I bought it.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xquisit* 
I see four different types, which one do you recommend?

This one is MAD easy xquisit.

Go to Fry's in Burbank or City of Industry.

Buy a Steelseries 7G and/or a SIIG Heavy Duty Mechanical.

Try out both switch types 7G ( Blacks ) and SIIG ( Blues ).

Once you decide which switch type you prefer, you can buy the one you want online. There aren't any Brown switches available in person. If you don't like the "click" of the blues but do like the tactile bump, that means you will like the Browns.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jbrown*


:

Ofcourse you named exactly what I have



















I upgraded from the both the Lycosa and the G15 to the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO and spent $145 shipped doing so. I spent $79.99 on the Lycosa and $99.99 on the G15. Now, here's the kicker: the Majestouch has no "features", but yet I feel that it was worth every last penny that I spent on it while now I feel like both the Lycosa and G15 were complete rip-offs. In comparison, it's like those kind of keyboards are for children while good mechanical keyboards are for men and women (or "adults").

There is absolute nothing I dislike or hate about the Majestouch.


----------



## hglazm

Why, exactly, do buckling spring keyboards only have 2-3KRO?


----------



## Nuc

New to the forums, really looking for a new keyboard and leaning towards getting a filco with the cherry browns, but thought I would toss this out there:

http://us.aving.net/news/view.php?articleId=158280

I know it was mentioned about 520+ pages ago with rubber domes but the latest PR material from gigabyte shows keys with different force requirements for gaming keys. Does that mean that it may not necessarily be a rubber dome keyboard?


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nuc*


New to the forums, really looking for a new keyboard and leaning towards getting a filco with the cherry browns, but thought I would toss this out there:

http://us.aving.net/news/view.php?articleId=158280

I know it was mentioned about 520+ pages ago with rubber domes but the latest PR material from gigabyte shows keys with different force requirements for gaming keys. Does that mean that it may not necessarily be a rubber dome keyboard?


Perhaps, but I think going with the Filco is still a better deal. I think the Gigabyte might be partially mechanical, while the Filco is truly mechanical.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Rosewill contacted Costar to make the CST-104 with NKRO and Blue cherries their brand (basically, a Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO) and they list the thing for a few hours and deactivate it (not mark it out of stock) on Newegg & Chiefvalue (newegg owned). Newegg Link.

The worst part is that it was $70 (vs. $146.50 shipped for the NKRO Click Filco) on Chiefvalue (item is deactivated and now points to an error page again, the Newegg URL still works for the Rosewill version but no one has ordered it here or on Geekhack because the $30 promo didn't work). When it came back in stock today, I asked Chiefvalue to take a look into reactivating the coupon (since it never worked while the keyboard was in stock on 7/21 and expired 7/25) and they said they would. Boom, deactivated again (haven't heard back from them either).

Also, the ABS M1 (another Newegg house brand, also Costar made) was falsely claimed to be NKRO, so everyone is afraid to be the first person to get it. As far as I can tell no one on OCN or Geekhack has ordered one. This kind of makes me skeptical, if you google the model number the discussions are on the expired deal on OCN and Geekhack alone within the past few days.

Anyhow, my theory is that Newegg's reps are just screwing with me at this point:


----------



## godofdeath

for anyone wondering what the keyboards sound like for a das and lives in new york

you can go check out J&R at city hall, they have the cherry blues there for you to try out

i tryed it and it sounds like a rattle when you type


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


for anyone wondering what the keyboards sound like for a das and lives in new york

you can go check out J&R at city hall, they have the cherry blues there for you to try out

i tryed it and it sounds like a rattle when you type


edit: mistake read.

nvm..IF i live in NY


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing*


Rosewill contacted Costar to make the CST-104 with NKRO and Blue cherries their brand (basically, a Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO) and they list the thing for a few hours and deactivate it (not mark it out of stock) on Newegg & Chiefvalue (newegg owned). Newegg Link.

The worst part is that it was $70 (vs. $146.50 shipped for the NKRO Click Filco) on Chiefvalue (item is deactivated and now points to an error page again, the Newegg URL still works for the Rosewill version but no one has ordered it here or on Geekhack because the $30 promo didn't work). When it came back in stock today, I asked Chiefvalue to take a look into reactivating the coupon (since it never worked while the keyboard was in stock on 7/21 and expired 7/25) and they said they would. Boom, deactivated again (haven't heard back from them either).

Also, the ABS M1 (another Newegg house brand, also Costar made) was falsely claimed to be NKRO, so everyone is afraid to be the first person to get it. As far as I can tell no one on OCN or Geekhack has ordered one. This kind of makes me skeptical, if you google the model number the discussions are on the expired deal on OCN and Geekhack alone within the past few days.

Anyhow, my theory is that Newegg's reps are just screwing with me at this point:










looooooooooool, trolled hard son.

Anyways, good to see you around. I haven't been on geekhack for a while. I'd like to be updated on the situation with this KB. A cheap KB w/blues + NKRO by Costar sounds nice.

OT: Any progress on DS Key caps for Filcos? Did Brian from EK make any progress?


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


looooooooooool, trolled hard son.

Anyways, good to see you around. I haven't been on geekhack for a while. I'd like to be updated on the situation with this KB. A cheap KB w/blues + NKRO by Costar sounds nice.

OT: Any progress on DS Key caps for Filcos? Did Brian from EK make any progress?


As far as I know, the key caps haven't been switched over to dye sublimated. However, for the blank keyboards, they have taken away the little bubble for the Windows key. So now, all the keys look completely uniform.


----------



## nijikon5

I was asking about replacement sets actually.

muchadoaboutnothing tried to get a group buy for DS Key caps and then Brian from EK said that he had been looking into it already.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


I was asking about replacement sets actually.

muchadoaboutnothing tried to get a group buy for DS Key caps and then Brian from EK said that he had been looking into it already.


Well, they haven't done anything as far as just saying that they will look into it.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


I was asking about replacement sets actually.

muchadoaboutnothing tried to get a group buy for DS Key caps and then Brian from EK said that he had been looking into it already.


No word from Brian on that, I'm afraid. He just said it was in the works and that Signature Plastics had been sent a set of Filco keys, but the changes to key profile were costly.

He said he was going to tell us if the changes were too costly for him to invest in double shots, so my guess is he's still working on it.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing* 
No word from Brian on that, I'm afraid. He just said it was in the works and that Signature Plastics had been sent a set of Filco keys, but the changes to key profile were costly.

He said he was going to tell us if the changes were too costly for him to invest in double shots, so my guess is he's still working on it.

Keep us updated on that Rosewill KB too, might just bite the bullet and get it if it's cheap enough.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Keep us updated on that Rosewill KB too, might just bite the bullet and get it if it's cheap enough.


Out of stock, allegedly, ETA is September 6th, at which point it may or may not be offered with the $30 discount.

As I said on Geekhack, I feel trolled and will probably buy it when it comes in stock anyways. If it's really awful I could return it under a restock of ten bucks or so.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Perhaps, but I think going with the Filco is still a better deal. I think the Gigabyte might be partially mechanical, while the Filco is truly mechanical.


From what I can see, it looks to me like that Gigabyte board is either a plain old rubber dome board, a scissor switch board, or it may have the Cherry MY switches. I mean, it looks almost no different than the Razer Lycosa except for the very top row of keys.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing*


Rosewill contacted Costar to make the CST-104 with NKRO and Blue cherries their brand (basically, a Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO) and they list the thing for a few hours and deactivate it (not mark it out of stock) on Newegg & Chiefvalue (newegg owned). Newegg Link.

The worst part is that it was $70 (vs. $146.50 shipped for the NKRO Click Filco) on Chiefvalue (item is deactivated and now points to an error page again, the Newegg URL still works for the Rosewill version but no one has ordered it here or on Geekhack because the $30 promo didn't work). When it came back in stock today, I asked Chiefvalue to take a look into reactivating the coupon (since it never worked while the keyboard was in stock on 7/21 and expired 7/25) and they said they would. Boom, deactivated again (haven't heard back from them either).

Also, the ABS M1 (another Newegg house brand, also Costar made) was falsely claimed to be NKRO, so everyone is afraid to be the first person to get it. As far as I can tell no one on OCN or Geekhack has ordered one. This kind of makes me skeptical, if you google the model number the discussions are on the expired deal on OCN and Geekhack alone within the past few days.


I think we have at least 2 dozen people here on OCN who have the ABS M1. Although, I've never gotten the impression that it is worth getting.

Also, I've never seen anyone say (or any_thing_) that the ABS M1 has full NKRO: everything I've ever seen regarding its key rollover says that it definitely does not have it.


----------



## Tator Tot

The M1, when it originally came out, was advertised as having NKRO


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I think we have at least 2 dozen people here on OCN who have the ABS M1. Although, I've never gotten the impression that it is worth getting.


Yeah, but the ABS M1 had neither NKRO nor MX switches (it used Alps, which many people like less than Cherries).

It was a Costar made board too.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Also, I've never seen anyone say (or any_thing_) that the ABS M1 has full NKRO: everything I've ever seen regarding its key rollover says that it definitely does not have it.


The initial product listing and marketing listed it as NKRO. It was subsequently corrected. Read the Newegg reviews of the ABS M1 to see.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing*


Yeah, but the ABS M1 had neither NKRO nor MX switches (it used Alps, which many people like less than Cherries).

It was a Costar made board too.


I know, but what I was saying is just that we really do have several ABS M1 owners. But they bought it knowing that it has the Black Alps Copies and that it doesn't have full NKRO. They just wanted to see what it was like. Most people bought it because it was being sold at a ridiculously low price on Newegg for a while.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing*


The initial product listing and marketing listed it as NKRO. It was subsequently corrected. Read the Newegg reviews of the ABS M1 to see.


Which reviews in particular? I mean, I have "100 Per Page" selected, and I see two pages. Help?


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I know, but what I was saying is just that we really do have several ABS M1 owners. But they bought it knowing that it has the Black Alps Copies and that it doesn't have full NKRO. They just wanted to see what it was like. Most people bought it because it was being sold at a ridiculously low price on Newegg for a while.

Which reviews in particular? I mean, I have "100 Per Page" selected, and I see two pages. Help?


Look at the one-egg reviews. When I look at products, I always look at lowest ratings first, haha.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing*


Yeah, but the ABS M1 had neither NKRO nor MX switches (it used Alps, which many people like less than Cherries).

It was a Costar made board too.

The initial product listing and marketing listed it as NKRO. It was subsequently corrected. Read the Newegg reviews of the ABS M1 to see.


I prefer *real* alps switches to cherries.

And the ABS M1 is a very solid board for the price. It is not top of the line mechanical, or even mid grade, but it still has a distinctly mechanical feel to it. Most people even enjoy how loud it can be when bottomed out.
(Yes, I own one)


----------



## TwoCables

I read all of the 1-egg reviews of the ABS M1, and not one of them said that ABS was advertising this as having full NKRO. But some of them _were_ saying that ABS advertised this keyboard as being capable of performing 6 simultaneous key presses. One reviewer said, _"I get a lousy email that they "checked" and this keyboard cannot perform 6 key simultaneous keystrokes."_

So from the way it looks, ABS wasn't saying that this keyboard has full NKRO, but they were ignorantly advertising the USB spec which is 6 simultaneous key presses plus 4 modifiers. But that doesn't mean that _any_ 6 keys can be pressed at the same time; it depends on the matrix.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:



Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing*


Out of stock, allegedly, ETA is September 6th, at which point it may or may not be offered with the $30 discount.

As I said on Geekhack, I feel trolled and will probably buy it when it comes in stock anyways. If it's really awful I could return it under a restock of ten bucks or so.


Rosewills almost always have sales... unless it's super popular at $100


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I read all of the 1-egg reviews of the ABS M1, and not one of them said that ABS was advertising this as having full NKRO. But some of them _were_ saying that ABS advertised this keyboard as being capable of performing 6 simultaneous key presses. One reviewer said, _"I get a lousy email that they "checked" and this keyboard cannot perform 6 key simultaneous keystrokes."_

So from the way it looks, ABS wasn't saying that this keyboard has full NKRO, but they were ignorantly advertising the USB spec which is 6 simultaneous key presses plus 4 modifiers. But that doesn't mean that _any_ 6 keys can be pressed at the same time; it depends on the matrix.


Oh I thought you asked for proof that the keyboard didn't have NKRO. Sorry, my mistake, haha.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I read all of the 1-egg reviews of the ABS M1, and not one of them said that ABS was advertising this as having full NKRO. But some of them _were_ saying that ABS advertised this keyboard as being capable of performing 6 simultaneous key presses. One reviewer said, _"I get a lousy email that they "checked" and this keyboard cannot perform 6 key simultaneous keystrokes."_

So from the way it looks, ABS wasn't saying that this keyboard has full NKRO, but they were ignorantly advertising the USB spec which is 6 simultaneous key presses plus 4 modifiers. But that doesn't mean that _any_ 6 keys can be pressed at the same time; it depends on the matrix.


Lmnop might have pictures of it somewhere; but the original release on the ABS Site & Newegg product pages said NKRO. Which was later removed when it didn't have that.


----------



## nijikon5

I bought the M1 when it was $20, owned it for a week before I gave it away to a buddy. I didn't mind the feel of the Alps copies too much, was okay, just didn't like the bad roll over capabilities of the board.


----------



## ljason8eg

Received my Das Professional S today. Absolutely loving it so far. So much better than my ABS M1. Just another case of you really do get what you pay for. Well...except for those Logitech/Razer keyboards. There you're paying for a whole lot of marketing. I can't believe I used to use a G15. It seems so...crappy and inferior now. Plus I think the Das looks better as well. Much more sleek looking.


----------



## TwoCables

Damn, I love that picture. I don't know why, but that picture gives me a better idea of its size, weight and quality than the ones on their own website!

Anyway, welcome to the "club" so to speak! And what a great keyboard too!


----------



## klaxian

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


*Deck Keyboards*









*Link:* http://www.deckkeyboards.com/
*Price:* $119-$176
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Blacks or Clears
*Switch Mounting:* Plate
*Keycap Printing:* Double Shot Molded and Dye Sublimated
*Key Shape:* Flat
*Interface:* PS/2 or USB
*Rollover:* NKRO
*Layout:* US ANSI (Legend), Tenkeyless modified (Deck 82)
*Extra Features:* Backlit using a single industrial grade LED on each switch with controllable brightness
*Drawbacks:* Requires the addition/removal of a resistor on the controller PCB to switch between USB and PS/2
*Other:* The warranty allows for modding, and they encourage it. Deck is a subsidiary of TG3 Electronics, which also makes mechanical keyboards.


Deck Legend (105-key models at least) key shapes are actually cylindrical - much to my delight


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *klaxian*


Deck Legend (105-key models at least) key shapes are actually cylindrical - much to my delight










I was talking about flat vs sculpted, like they are all the same height.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Damn, I love that picture. I don't know why, but that picture gives me a better idea of its size, weight and quality than the ones on their own website!

Anyway, welcome to the "club" so to speak! And what a great keyboard too!


Thanks! I just had to take a pic as soon as I took it out of the box.









I really do love this thing. I can't get over how much fun it is to type on. Much easier too, I've noticed I've picked up some WPM.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ljason8eg* 
Thanks! I just had to take a pic as soon as I took it out of the box.









I really do love this thing. I can't get over how much fun it is to type on. Much easier too, I've noticed I've picked up some WPM.

hehehe now you know how I can just go on, and on, and on, and on about my keyboard.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
hehehe now you know how I can just go on, and on, and on, and on about my keyboard.









Yes I totally understand it now. Even the ABS M1 doesn't feel that good anymore, and that was a pretty big step up from the G15 that came before it.

I don't see myself getting another keyboard for a long, long time.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ljason8eg* 
Yes I totally understand it now. Even the ABS M1 doesn't feel that good anymore, and that was a pretty big step up from the G15 that came before it.

I don't see myself getting another keyboard for a long, long time.

Wow. How much better does it feel than the ABS M1? It kinda sounds like the Model S is as big of an upgrade from the ABS M1 as the M1 was from the G15!


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ljason8eg* 
Yes I totally understand it now. Even the ABS M1 doesn't feel that good anymore, and that was a pretty big step up from the G15 that came before it.

I don't see myself getting another keyboard for a long, long time.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Wow. How much better does it feel than the ABS M1? It kinda sounds like the Model S is as big of an upgrade from the ABS M1 as the M1 was from the G15!









lol. i bought the Model S pro, cherry mx blue switch from ABS M1, but then return it after 3 days, i GAMING FAIL with the MX Blue switches. and back to ABS M1 right now, Model S pro SILENT is coming next week, hopefully will works fine for me and im going to make a review for it if i could.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Wow. How much better does it feel than the ABS M1? It kinda sounds like the Model S is as big of an upgrade from the ABS M1 as the M1 was from the G15!









Well, it doesn't surprise me. The Das felt awesome. :/


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
lol. i bought the Model S pro, cherry mx blue switch from ABS M1, but then return it after 3 days, i GAMING FAIL with the MX Blue switches. and back to ABS M1 right now, Model S pro SILENT is coming next week, hopefully will works fine for me and im going to make a review for it if i could.









What gaming problems did you experience with the Model S?


----------



## Marin

I should make a video of me gaming with blues. Maybe tomorrow.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Wow. How much better does it feel than the ABS M1? It kinda sounds like the Model S is as big of an upgrade from the ABS M1 as the M1 was from the G15!









Night and day difference. The key travel did not feel consistent on the M1. That was probably the biggest gripe I had about it. Like it felt as if there was a lot of friction.

Obviously the tactile bump on the M1's switches is nothing like Cherry MX Blue switches. I'm already hardly bottoming out with the Cherries. The M1, I was hitting the bottom all the time and never could get out of the habit.

I would agree with what you said. The Model S is just as big of an upgrade.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
I should make a video of me gaming with blues. Maybe tomorrow.

I'm going to try some TF2 later tonight. I'm terrible at it but I want to see if I get these problems that I hear about so much when it comes to Blues and not being good for some games.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
What gaming problems did you experience with the Model S?

i doesn't have any problem when typing, and typing 100% feels great.
but when comes to gaming,

Example:
like playing CS:S, i press W,D, to go front right, if i press longer then 1 sec,either W or D will stop function and i will just move to right. or D will stop functioning and i will just move Straight to Front.

edit:
im not sure if it is me or the keyboard, but when come to other game like Freestyle streetbasket ball online game, i have the samething happen too


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ljason8eg* 
Night and day difference. The key travel did not feel consistent on the M1. That was probably the biggest gripe I had about it. Like it felt as if there was a lot of friction.

Obviously the tactile bump on the M1's switches is nothing like Cherry MX Blue switches. I'm already hardly bottoming out with the Cherries. The M1, I was hitting the bottom all the time and never could get out of the habit.

I would agree with what you said. The Model S is just as big of an upgrade.

I'm going to try some TF2 later tonight. I'm terrible at it but I want to see if I get these problems that I hear about so much when it comes to Blues and not being good for some games.

Whoa!! I guess I never truly realized it before, but damn: I really am quite spoiled. The Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO is my first mechanical keyboard!

Anyway, thank you for that good comparison!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
i doesn't have any problem when typing, and typing 100% feels great.
but when comes to gaming,

Example:
like playing CS:S, i press W,D, to go front right, if i press longer then 1 sec,either W or D will stop function and i will just move to right. or D will stop functioning and i will just move Straight to Front.

edit:
im not sure if it is me or the keyboard, but when come to other game like Freestyle streetbasket ball online game, i have the samething happen too

Were (or are) you using the USB to PS/2 adapter? I mean, this has nothing to do with the switch type; it is related to key rollover.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Whoa!! I guess I never truly realized it before, but damn: I really am quite spoiled. The Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO is my first mechanical keyboard!

Anyway, thank you for that good comparison!

Were (or are) you using the USB to PS/2 adapter? I mean, this has nothing to do with the switch type; it is related to key rollover.

PS/2
it only happens when u hold 2 keys at the sametime more then 1~2 sec in the GAME


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
PS/2
it only happens when u hold 2 keys at the sametime more then 1~2 sec in the GAME

Then it might be something related to the game. I mean, how could it be caused by the switch type?

By the way: you didn't have to capitalize the word "game". I understood.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Then it might be something related to the game. I mean, how could it be caused by the switch type?

By the way: you didn't have to capitalize the word "game". I understood.

then i really not sure.
so..i return it, because i fail hard, playing the freestyle online game with the keyboard lol, my teammate just keep saying : _WDF are you doing? why you keep running to the wrong side._
i keep reply, my keyboard screwed = =
but hopefully it wont happen with cherry mx brown.
i will try it out and let u know, see if it is any different


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
then i really not sure.
so..i return it, because i fail hard, playing the freestyle online game with the keyboard lol, my teammate just keep saying : _WDF are you doing? why you keep running to the wrong side._
i keep reply, my keyboard screwed = =
but hopefully it wont happen with cherry mx brown.
i will try it out and let u know, see if it is any different

No, you're supposed to say _"I'm trying to confuse you! Do you mean to say that it's not working? Do I need a new strategy? Aw, dammit! I was just getting good at this new strategy too!"_

I couldn't resist!









Anyway, I hope it was just a bad keyboard then (like, defective).


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
No, you're supposed to say _"I'm trying to confuse you! Do you mean to say that it's not working? Do I need a new strategy? Aw, dammit! I was just getting good at this new strategy too!"_

I couldn't resist!









Anyway, I hope it was just a bad keyboard then (like, defective).

yea i really hope so. so when i come here and read the thread, i tot i really cant game with blue switches, and maybe is what cause by the blue switches. so i return it to DAS on the 3rd day, their customer services was just awesome.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
yea i really hope so. so when i come here and read the thread, i tot i really cant game with blue switches, and maybe is what cause by the blue switches. so i return it to DAS on the 3rd day, their customer services was just awesome.

Yeah, it's definitely not the switches since what you experienced is either due to key rollover, or some strange defect.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Yeah, it's definitely not the switches since what you experienced is either due to key rollover, or some strange defect.

well, i will try it with my new DAS Silent schedule deliver next week








i will try to make a review for it with my new Samsung NX10 DSLR








i watched the Das Silent Pro review by this guy = =,











he's weird, and i don't know what he talking about.
he looks like he like it but he hate it..something like that. lol

and i think that is the only review for the DAS Silent in youtube


----------



## Crazy9000

When I trip the NKRO (go over 6 keypresses) on my das keyboard, it will pulse the key commands instead of having them solid. I think that issue is fixed with the model S though. The old model was trying to allow NKRO over USB, so that's why I think it does that.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


well, i will try it with my new DAS Silent schedule deliver next week








i will try to make a review for it with my new Samsung NX10 DSLR








i watched the Das Silent Pro review by this guy = =,




he's weird, and i don't know what he talking about.
he looks like he like it but he hate it..something like that. lol

and i think that is the only review for the DAS Silent in youtube


FYI, the reviewer really doesn't know what he's talking about. It's unfortunate that he's the only one on Youtube that actually owns the Das Model S Silent.


----------



## Murinus

I decided to go for the Steelseries 7g, i really love it and find it pretty solid.Only complain would be the kinda 'cheap' key-caps.

However, i was having some issues with the spacebar, it was hard to push on its right edge after a while, so i decided to remove it and lubricate(with WD40)the metal bar under it.. thing is, the circuit is also there.. and some fluid was also sprayed on that plastic.I know that wd40 is not conductive, but i am kinda paranoid over this whole thing.

Do you mechanical keyboarders think that there could be any kind of complications later on?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Yeah, when the WD40 breaks down it will lose its lubrication and you'll have to relubricate, and eventually you'll get buildup. Don't use WD40, use a lubricant actually intended for lubrication.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
I should make a video of me gaming with blues. Maybe tomorrow.

Yea please do. I want to see if you do anything special with the keyboard while gaming.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

So after reading a few posts on geekhack.org, the only way to game on a blue comfortably is to bottom out the key in order to get it to register, correct?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
So after reading a few posts on geekhack.org, the only way to game on a blue comfortably is to bottom out the key in order to get it to register, correct?

I guess....I mean that's how I assumed anyone would game on ANY switch.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
I guess....I mean that's how I assumed anyone would game on ANY switch.

Well I was under the presumption that bottoming out was bad...like people would make fun of typists who bottomed out on brown switches and would say things like "learn to type better."


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Well I was under the presumption that bottoming out was bad...like people would make fun of typists who bottomed out on brown switches and would say things like "learn to type better."


Gaming requires a lot of fast key presses, its completely different from typing.

When you type you can really focus on the typing aspect, which means more thoughtful and gentle presses of keys. Bottoming out when gaming is completely normal, you're just doing whatever you can do get those keys pressed, being careful is the last thing on the gamer's mind.

Bottoming out when typing isn't that bad either. I can be gentle even with linear type switches but it's all about being smooth with them. Unless you're some typing otaku who strives to type 200wpm and everyone else is scum, I don't think anyone will think less of you if you bottom out while typing.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


Gaming requires a lot of fast key presses, its completely different from typing.

When you type you can really focus on the typing aspect, which means more thoughtful and gentle presses of keys. Bottoming out when gaming is completely normal, you're just doing whatever you can do get those keys pressed, being careful is the last thing on the gamer's mind.

Bottoming out when typing isn't that bad either. I can be gentle even with linear type switches but it's all about being smooth with them. Unless you're some typing otaku who strives to type 200wpm and everyone else is scum, I don't think anyone will think less of you if you bottom out while typing.


So why is it that gamers still find gaming on blues hard? Is it hard to bottom them out or something?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


FYI, the reviewer really doesn't know what he's talking about. It's unfortunate that he's the only one on Youtube that actually owns the Das Model S Silent.


Despite not knowing what he's on about, he raises some valid points. The browns are practically linear, and they are noisier than people make them out to be. Even if you don't bottom out on them.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
So why is it that gamers still find gaming on blues hard? Is it hard to bottom them out or something?

They 'unclick' at a higher point in the travel than where they actuate originally. This means that if you are mashing the one key, there's no tactility to let you know that you have released the key until the key is almost released fully, but in fact, the key release happens long before that.

It's not really a huge issue, it's just somewhat... disorientating.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
They have a weird hysteresis - they 'unclick' at a higher point in the travel than they 'click' originally. This means that if you are mashing the one key, there's no tactility to let you know that you have released the key until the key is almost released fully, but in fact, the key release happens around the same point that it would on any other switch.

It's not really a huge issue, it's just somewhat... disorientating.

So it just takes some getting used to, correct?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


So it just takes some getting used to, correct?


That question really doesn't have an answer......it entirely depends on you!

You might love gaming on it from the first click, but you might hate it and not even want to bother trying to adapt.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
That question really doesn't have an answer......it entirely depends on you!

You might love gaming on it from the first click, but you might hate it and not even want to bother trying to adapt.

Well that's what I am kind of scared of. I am eagerly anticipating the arrival of my Filco in two more days, but I don't want to find it impossible to game on. Marin and IEATFISH continue to be my inspiration (they game on blue cherries, haha).


----------



## zen1th

Hey guys, I've been sort of lurking around here on overclock.net for the past few weeks, and I stumbled upon this thread, and decided I wanted one of these awesome keyboards









So I bought the Filco Tenkeyless Cherry MX Blue, and I've been typing on it for the past few days now. It's definitely an improvement over my old Logitech Media Keyboard. I also do a bit of gaming every now and then, usually MW2 or CSS, and it does take some getting used to with this keyboard.

What freaked me out the most in the beginning was the loud clicking, which is really soothing to me when I'm typing, but when I'm gaming it's just plain weird. I haven't gotten completely used to the way this keyboard clicks, like what ch_123 was talking about here. It is different, but once you've used it for a while I don't think you will think anything of it









Either way, I think you'll be very happy with the keyboard Admiral Mudkipz








Also, thanks Manyak for the education and motivation!


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Well that's what I am kind of scared of. I am eagerly anticipating the arrival of my Filco in two more days, but I don't want to find it impossible to game on. Marin and IEATFISH continue to be my inspiration (they game on blue cherries, haha).


It's doable, and you get used to it after a bit, but it's not exactly ideal.

I'd argue that buckling springs or clicky Alps are a better choice if you want a clicky keyboard for gaming, but NKRO versions of them are hard to find if you want that capability. There used to be the Filco Zero, but that isn't sold outside Japan any more.


----------



## zen1th

ch_123 keyboardco.com sells a USA version of the Filco Zero, site says it has XM White, I think those are a fake kind of ALPS or something? 
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=621


----------



## ch_123

I thought they didn't have them any more.

Either way, the XM switches are meant to be absolutely horrible. They switched over to clicky ***ka switches, and elitekeyboards stocked them at $80 for a while. Unfortunately they are no longer available.

There were some transposition issues with them that were supposedly not easy to fix. I think that was part of the reason why they are no longer available from elitekeyboards.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Well that's what I am kind of scared of. I am eagerly anticipating the arrival of my Filco in two more days, but I don't want to find it impossible to game on. Marin and IEATFISH continue to be my inspiration (they game on blue cherries, haha).


I do too actually









But that's kind of like, seeing a real hot chick at a bar, but not going up to speak to her because you're scared she's a guy. Don't you think you should at least see what they're like before worrying about anything?


----------



## ljason8eg

For the record I just played some TF2 and some COD4 and everything feels the same to me. I'm not really good at either game because I don't really play much other than iRacing but Blues seemed fine for gaming to me at least. Maybe a more demanding, competitive player would have problems.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Gaming issues on blues really only stem from double tapping a key repeatedly. I don't find myself doing that much in any game (except spacebar with scout in TF2). You shouldn't have a problem, and I know that you will still have a gasm when you try out the new board in a day or two.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Gaming issues on blues really only stem from double tapping a key repeatedly. I don't find myself doing that much in any game (except spacebar with scout in TF2). You shouldn't have a problem, and I know that you will still have a gasm when you try out the new board in a day or two.


Well I asked Marin how hard it was to double tap when playing Scout. He said that it was too easy...but then again, that's his opinion.

This











 still continues to impress me on how well blue cherries are. Start watching at 0:40.


----------



## godofdeath

where can you get some replacement cherry keycaps?


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Well I asked Marin how hard it was to double tap when playing Scout. He said that it was too easy...but then again, that's his opinion.

This 



 still continues to impress me on how well blue cherries are. Start watching at 0:40.


The user has his fingers completely hovering above each key, its not hard to get multiple presses on Cherry Blues as long as you are completely releasing the key before another press.

Anyways, Ergogeek got back to me today about their iOne XArmor U9BL. 149.99, here's the YouTube vid.

http://www.ergogeek.com/xarmor-u9bl-...-keyboard.html


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


where can you get some replacement cherry keycaps?


www.geekhack.org check their wiki or for sale section


----------



## TwoCables

Admiral Mudkipz:

If you are an extremely competitive/professional/serious gamer, then there is a chance that you may have a problem with the Cherry MX Blues for double-tapping (especially if you have worked hard on your double-tapping technique and generally have a pretty polished gaming technique). But if you're more or less a casual gamer, then you may have absolutely no problems whatsoever; there may not even be that much of an "adjustment period" for you either. I mean, you may just find yourself taking to your new keyboard for gaming like a fish takes to water.

Now, I don't play any games that require double-tapping, so I love playing games on my keyboard (which has the Cherry MX Blues). I have absolutely zero problems when playing games; it's certainly superior to playing my games on either the Lycosa or the G15 - I had both and they absolutely _pale_ in comparison.

In other words: try to stop worrying. After all, it's not accomplishing anything except for causing you to have unpleasant feelings/emotions.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Admiral Mudkipz:

If you are an extremely competitive/professional/serious gamer, then there is a chance that you may have a problem with the Cherry MX Blues for double-tapping (especially if you have worked hard on your double-tapping technique and generally have a pretty polished gaming technique). But if you're more or less a casual gamer, then you may have absolutely no problems whatsoever; there may not even be that much of an "adjustment period" for you either. I mean, you may just find yourself taking to your new keyboard for gaming like a fish takes to water.

Now, I don't play any games that require double-tapping, so I love playing games on my keyboard (which has the Cherry MX Blues). I have absolutely zero problems when playing games; it's certainly superior to playing my games on either the Lycosa or the G15 - I had both and they absolutely _pale_ in comparison.

In other words: try to stop worrying. After all, it's not accomplishing anything except for causing you to have unpleasant feelings/emotions.


True. I shall wait until the arrival of my keyboard...we'll see from there.


----------



## Tator Tot

I'd say just from my trial of blues and use of a rubber-dome board for so long: Blues are not an issue.

I know this is the same for alot of gamers. But when we double tap on a key we wait for it to come all the way back up and actually pull the finger off the key as soon as we bottom out the first time and then slam down again.

So I don't see the blues being that much of an issue in that regard.

My buddy games on his blues (He's a Programmer so he got them for his typing pleasure mostly.) And he can't be happier. ANd the only time he's ever had an issue is the same time I do:
IE; we both double tap to fast at times or by accident and over-shoot our goal. (Like in Unreal Tournaments side dodges.)


----------



## Murinus

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Yeah, when the WD40 breaks down it will lose its lubrication and you'll have to relubricate, and eventually you'll get buildup. Don't use WD40, use a lubricant actually intended for lubrication.

Thanks for the tip, got some silicon spray, it will hopefully do.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


This 



 still continues to impress me on how well blue cherries are. Start watching at 0:40.


Link to 40s then.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing*


Link to 40s then.







You must understand that 90% of people who use youtube don't know how to do that. I never knew how to do that either, but from looking at the url it's now obvious.


----------



## WhiteRice

Hey guys I'm in the look out for a Siig minitouch. I know there is a geekhack keyboard but I was hoping to find something more affordable. I have an eye on eBay,
But if you have any other sources please let me know.


----------



## Marin

Bottom-left corner of my Filco is completely shiny from gaming so much, lol.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


Bottom-left corner of my Filco is completely shiny from gaming so much, lol.


To me, shininess and location of shininess customizes one person's keyboard from another.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:



Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing*


Link to 40s then.







This is madness!!


----------



## Marin

Got my OCN keycap. It's quite awesome.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


You must understand that 90% of people who use youtube don't know how to do that. I never knew how to do that either, but from looking at the url it's now obvious.


Then use Youtubetime

Paste your Youtube link in, specify the time, and it'll generate the link for you.


----------



## godofdeath

im still waiting for my cherry ocn key


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing* 
Then use Youtubetime

Paste your Youtube link in, specify the time, and it'll generate the link for you.

great link! i'll definitely be using that


----------



## Manyak

Check out my new keycap


----------



## fssbzz

got my DAS Silent


----------



## LarsMarkelson

gotta say that looks hot

haha your pic reminded me i never confirmed to see if i really had cherry browns... well i do!


----------



## Marin

Enjoy your keyboard.









Also, I already posted this in the Keycap thread but I may as well post it here.


----------



## godofdeath

im getting my das (blue) tomorrow,

i will see whether i like browns or blues more and return one of them

yes i am nuts lol


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
Enjoy your keyboard.









Also, I already posted this in the Keycap thread but I may as well post it here.














stop showing off
im waiting for one to see if it works hopefully it does


----------



## Randallrocks

Hey guys, thinking about purchasing one of these but I'm kind of short on cash.

What's the cheapest one I could buy?


----------



## LarsMarkelson

IBM Model M's can be found quite cheaply... what kind of cheaply are we talking about here? Rosewill has a Cherry Blue keyboard that should be on sale for $70 sometime soon, I'd say this month...


----------



## Randallrocks

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
IBM Model M's can be found quite cheaply... what kind of cheaply are we talking about here? Rosewill has a Cherry Blue keyboard that should be on sale for $70 sometime soon, I'd say this month...

I was thinking $30-$50 cheaply but I guess I won't be able to find that. :/

Thanks anyways.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Randallrocks* 
I was thinking $30-$50 cheaply but I guess I won't be able to find that. :/

Thanks anyways.

You can get a mechanical for that much definitely. Check here for ebay deals, http://geekhack.org/forumdisplay.php?f=41

They may not be pretty though. Could probably find a used ABS M1 too.


----------



## godofdeath

i saw some cheap beige ones from compaq and stuff on geekhack but they're gone now


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I might be able to send out a used Compaq MX-11800 for $30+shipping.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Randallrocks* 
I was thinking $30-$50 cheaply but I guess I won't be able to find that. :/

Thanks anyways.

I recommend searching eBay for IBM Model Ms and then asking us to take a look at any you are interested in to see if they're worth buying (some might not be).

You might be able to easily find one for less than $30-$50.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
Enjoy your keyboard.









Also, I already posted this in the Keycap thread but I may as well post it here.














Marin, you should post a video of you gaming on the blue cherries







.

My keyboard is coming tomorrow...I'm super excited!


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I always seem to post this just before a page change so no one sees it.

Compaq MX-11800 with worn MX browns, $30+shipping.


----------



## Xombie

Anyone have a chance to check out the new "Xarmor U9BL Mechanical Gaming Baklit"?


----------



## Crazy9000

I think it looks nice, but it seems a little overpriced, considering a Deck is around that price point. Also the choice of blue switches on a gaming keyboard is questionable.


----------



## ThirdLap

Thanks to Manyak and Geekhack, I've really gotten into vintage mechanical keyboards over the last few months. I now have a collection of about ten boards, with most setting me back no more than a dollar.

So far my collection includes:

Northgate Omnikey 101 
Northgate Omnikey 102
IBM Model M - 1993 Blue label
IBM Model M - 1990 Gray label
Dell AT101W (x5)
Packintell

As well as dozen or so other non-mechanical keyboards.

Just wanted to thank Manyak, TwoCables, and all the other contributors to this megathread for all the great info.


----------



## Kamakazi

On a random side note, kind of having to do with mechanical keyboards. It is kind of crazy how little keyboards have changed in 20+ years.


----------



## BubblesMuhaha

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


On a random side note, kind of having to do with mechanical keyboards. It is kind of crazy how little keyboards have changed in 20+ years.


Actual keyboards, yes very little... Typing has changed quite a bit with voice recognition and touchscreen input. HIDs in general is where all the magic has happened.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThirdLap*


Thanks to Manyak and Geekhack, I've really gotten into vintage mechanical keyboards over the last few months. I now have a collection of about ten boards, with most setting me back no more than a dollar.

So far my collection includes:

Northgate Omnikey 101 
Northgate Omnikey 102
IBM Model M - 1993 Blue label
IBM Model M - 1990 Gray label
Dell AT101W (x5)
Packintell

As well as dozen or so other non-mechanical keyboards.

Just wanted to thank Manyak, TwoCables, and all the other contributors to this megathread for all the great info.










Glad you're enjoying them









But hey, what switches does that packintell have? it looks almost like an Omnikey, but different.


----------



## Nuc

While I realize that there are aesthetic differences between the Deck, Das Silent, and Filco, a Cherry MX Brown is a Cherry MX Brown, right? Mechanically the keyboards are identical?

I tried a Das Pro at J&R today and was amazed at the difference the mechanical switches make. While I hated the clicking of the blue switches, I can definitely see myself liking the brown ones. I'm not sure which keyboard to get though.


----------



## Tator Tot

If you like the bump of the blues (that they have halfway down.) Then you'll most likely like the browns.

But yes a Cherry MX-Brown is the same on every board.

Though sound characteristics can change between boards depending on if the switch is PCB or Plate mounted.


----------



## Nuc

Which one is quieter?


----------



## klaxian

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nuc*


While I realize that there are aesthetic differences between the Deck, Das Silent, and Filco, a Cherry MX Brown is a Cherry MX Brown, right? Mechanically the keyboards are identical?


Yes, the switches will be the same, but there are other components that vary..
Keycaps, quality and manufacturing method (will they rub off?)
Back plate and overall keyboard construction
Other features like multimedia keys and backlight
You still get what you pay for, even with mechanicals.


----------



## klaxian

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nuc*


Which one is quieter?


Brown is quieter than blue because it doesn't have a click when the key actuates. However, if you bottom out when you type, there will be a "clack" sound when the keycap hits the backplate. The trick is to learn how to type just by the feel of the switch and not bottom out... something I'm still learning.


----------



## Nuc

Ok great. So I will just have to decide if I want to get the Filco or the Das then.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nuc*


Ok great. So I will just have to decide if I want to get the Filco or the Das then.


If I had to make the choice again; it'd be for the Das.

The Das was a more solid board in my opinion. Just overall nicer. 
Also if you're a student they have a nice discount if you email them.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *klaxian*


Yes, the switches will be the same, but there are other components that vary..
Keycaps, quality and manufacturing method (will they rub off?)
Back plate and overall keyboard construction
Other features like multimedia keys and backlight
You still get what you pay for, even with mechanicals.


Keycaps do also change the feel of the switch, albeit _very_ slightly. And the sound of it too.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nuc*


Ok great. So I will just have to decide if I want to get the Filco or the Das then.


If you're a student and can the Das discount, do it. $99 for a Das KB is a steal. If you can't get the discount, the Das might be still slightly cheaper than a Filco ( depends on shipping and if you live in California due to tax ). The only reason to get a Filco over the Das is because of the Tenkeyless. I have a Filco and would strongly recommend the Das.


----------



## godofdeath

im gonna sell my DAS brown for 115 shipped soon, im still testing it out as to whether I actually do like the blue kb more than the brown switches

i just got the blue today and am typing on now


----------



## WhiteRice

Got my abs m1 today... awesome!


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Just got my Filco Majestouch....will do unboxing gallery in a bit.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WhiteRice* 
Got my abs m1 today... awesome!










new or used?


----------



## WhiteRice

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
new or used?

Used from an OCN member and it's very clean

$30 shipped


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WhiteRice* 
Used from an OCN member and it's very clean

$30 shipped









not bad especially as a sort of introductory mechanical keyboard
i coulda gotten it on newegg when it was on sale but i passed on it and went straight to the das


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

I think my PS2 port is dead...I can't type with my Filco at all when plugged into PS2. However, when the computer is plugged into USB, it works perfectly fine.'

Opp, never mind. I just had to restart my computer. Now it fully works! Expect an unboxing gallery soon. I love this thing







.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Unboxing thread is up: http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ick-otaku.html

Enjoy







.


----------



## godofdeath

i shoulda done an unboxing of my das but meh

maybe i'll take a picture of both lol


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
i shoulda done an unboxing of my das but meh

maybe i'll take a picture of both lol

I did an unboxing gallery because once you open it, you can't reclose it and seal and then take pictures if you wanted to. It's kind of a one time thing.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
I did an unboxing gallery because once you open it, you can't reclose it and seal and then take pictures if you wanted to. It's kind of a one time thing.

lol mine is just the shipping box, the actual kb box is not sealed lol


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
lol mine is just the shipping box, the actual kb box is not sealed lol

Lol, I actually wanted to take pics of the shipping box, to show the overall status of the box when it shipped by FedEx. Good thing mine wasn't seriously marred.


----------



## godofdeath

yea ups just left it at the inner door of the apartment which they never usually do which is suprising


----------



## WhiteRice

I ordered a ghss, I'll un-box when it comes. My M1 was just in some bubble wrap. :3


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WhiteRice* 
I ordered a ghss, I'll un-box when it comes. My M1 was just in some bubble wrap. :3

Congrats on your purchase! Looking forward to seeing the unboxing







.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WhiteRice* 
I ordered a ghss, I'll un-box when it comes. My M1 was just in some bubble wrap. :3

Siig Minitouches are just plain awesome, and so are White Alps









I'm actually starting to lean more towards White Alps these days myself (over Cherry Blues).


----------



## Blueduck3285

I am wondering what my G110 uses. It doesnt feel like a normal keyboard from my work. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blueduck3285* 
I am wondering what my G110 uses. It doesnt feel like a normal keyboard from my work. Thanks in advance.

Rubber Domes


----------



## klaxian

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blueduck3285* 
I am wondering what my G110 uses. It doesnt feel like a normal keyboard from my work. Thanks in advance.

G110 is a rubber dome keyboard. However, it is constructed with higher quality than most. I just upgraded to a Deck Legend from a G110 and there is still a huge difference though. The LEDs are far superior as well.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blueduck3285* 
I am wondering what my G110 uses. It doesnt feel like a normal keyboard from my work. Thanks in advance.

Rubber Domes.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *klaxian* 
G110 is a rubber dome keyboard. However, it is constructed with higher quality than most.

Eh. not really. :\\


----------



## Randallrocks

Sweet, apparently we still have some old mechanical keyboards from the 90's in my garage. I'll have to check that out.

Now I don't have to worry about price or budget!


----------



## W4LNUT5

Just got an email about this being re-listed. I must have been watching it or something. Would be a decent keyboard for someone on a budget.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...:WNARL:US:1123


----------



## fssbzz

hey, thanks to twocables, tator tot, everyone who ever help me in this thread.
i think i made the very right choice bought the DAS Silent Cherry mx brown keyboard.

i love this keyboard so much, i love the feeling typing on it , it just like having sex with my girlfriend while typing on this keyboard, when comes to gaming. Oh GOD, it makes me orgasm..man i love Brown switches!! even i haven* try other colors like black , clear , and red...but this is just awesome.!
thanks again!

edit: Haven*


----------



## fssbzz

found this NKRO tester for the OPTIMUS keyboard.
looks nice

http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/demo/


----------



## xBlitzerx

I'm really interested in the Filco FKBN104M/EB board. Not sure if I can justify the price tag though. Great thread btw.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xBlitzerx*


I'm really interested in the Filco FKBN104M/EB board. Not sure if I can justify the price tag though. Great thread btw.


Mechanical Keyboards justify themselves. You'll understand soon enough I think


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I think it looks nice, but it seems a little overpriced, considering a Deck is around that price point. Also the choice of blue switches on a gaming keyboard is questionable.


I agree that their choice of switches is questionable. I'd also like to add that not only do I agree, but I feel that it makes them look a bit ignorant. I mean, they're marking it as a gaming keyboard! So, they should at least be using the Cherry MX Browns.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ThirdLap*


Thanks to Manyak and Geekhack, I've really gotten into vintage mechanical keyboards over the last few months. I now have a collection of about ten boards, with most setting me back no more than a dollar.

So far my collection includes:

Northgate Omnikey 101 
Northgate Omnikey 102
IBM Model M - 1993 Blue label
IBM Model M - 1990 Gray label
Dell AT101W (x5)
Packintell

As well as dozen or so other non-mechanical keyboards.

Just wanted to thank Manyak, TwoCables, and all the other contributors to this megathread for all the great info.










You're very welcome!









Anyway, that's quite a nice collection!! Do you have a favorite yet?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


On a random side note, kind of having to do with mechanical keyboards. It is kind of crazy how little keyboards have changed in 20+ years.


Indeed. But it's just a testament to one of the reasons why we love mechanical keyboards so much. If I had enough space to store a bunch of keyboards, then I'd probably have close to 20 different mechanical keyboards right now - and I've only really been "into" mechanical keyboards since around February 2010!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nuc*


While I realize that there are aesthetic differences between the Deck, Das Silent, and Filco, a Cherry MX Brown is a Cherry MX Brown, right? Mechanically the keyboards are identical?

I tried a Das Pro at J&R today and was amazed at the difference the mechanical switches make. While I hated the clicking of the blue switches, I can definitely see myself liking the brown ones. I'm not sure which keyboard to get though.


When you say "clicking", are you referring to the click that the switch makes when a key is pressed approximately halfway down? Or are you referring to the sound of the key being quickly pressed all the way down (or perhaps being "hit")?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nuc*


Which one is quieter?


Do you mean which _switch_ is quieter between the Cherry MX Blues and Browns? Or, do you mean plate-mounted vs. PCB-mounted?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nuc*


Ok great. So I will just have to decide if I want to get the Filco or the Das then.


With that student discount, I strongly and enthusiastically recommend the Das Model S!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


I think my PS2 port is dead...I can't type with my Filco at all when plugged into PS2. However, when the computer is plugged into USB, it works perfectly fine.'

Opp, never mind. I just had to restart my computer. Now it fully works! Expect an unboxing gallery soon. I love this thing







.


Ha, did you forget that PS/2 isn't Plug 'n' Play?









If you ever wish to unplug it while running Windows, then do this right after you plug it back in (even if you just unplug the cable from the adapter and leave the adapter plugged in):

Open the keyboard control panel (in Win7, just open the Start Menu, type "keyboard", arrow down twice, and press Enter)
Once the keyboard control panel is open, press the Right Arrow key (I'm hoping that you have already moved "Repeat delay" and "Repeat rate" all the way over to the right when setting up Windows)
Take notice that now the "Apply" button becomes active (the goal is basically to activate the "Apply" button).
Press Enter (or click OK, or click Apply. But it's not necessary to click "Apply" even though it's necessary to activate that button)
To see why this is necessary, make sure the Repeat Rate and Repeat Delay are as high as they go. Now unplug the keyboard and plug it back in. After that, test the Repeat Rate/Delay by just opening Notepad or something and then press and hold a key down. After that, perform the steps above and then try again. You should notice afterward that the Repeat Delay/Rate are back where they were (regarding the behavior, not the settings that you can actually see in the keyboard control panel - those won't change when the keyboard is unplugged).

This will allow you to unplug the keyboard any time you want and then plug it back in without being forced to use the default settings even though the actual settings in the keyboard control panel don't actually change when the keyboard is unplugged. It only reverts back to the default settings because PS/2 isn't Plug 'n' Play.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Unboxing thread is up: http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ick-otaku.html

Enjoy







.


Replied.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Siig Minitouches are just plain awesome, and so are White Alps









I'm actually starting to lean more towards White Alps these days myself (over Cherry Blues).


Ooo, why?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


hey, thanks to twocables, tator tot, everyone who ever help me in this thread.
i think i made the very right choice bought the DAS Silent Cherry mx brown keyboard.

i love this keyboard so much, i love the feeling typing on it , it just like having sex with my girlfriend while typing on this keyboard, when comes to gaming. Oh GOD, it makes me orgasm..man i love Brown switches!! even i haven* try other colors like black , clear , and red...but this is just awesome.!
thanks again!

edit: Haven*


I'm really glad this one is working out for you!


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I'm really glad this one is working out for you!


i really think that i got the defective blue switches from DAS last time.
i really going to give blue switches a try again. 
now it train my finger not to use so much force to type on it.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Ugh, my left shift key got stuck fsr and I tried to lift it off with my key cap puller. I couldn't get it off all the way but I did get it back in place and it doesn't stick anymore. Problem is it makes a kind of clicky sound now like the clip on it is a bit off... any ideas anyone?


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*


Ugh, my left shift key got stuck fsr and I tried to lift it off with my key cap puller. I couldn't get it off all the way but I did get it back in place and it doesn't stick anymore. Problem is it makes a kind of clicky sound now like the clip on it is a bit off... any ideas anyone?


try pushing it all the way down and maybe everything will be align again?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Ooo, why?


I dunno, really. I always liked the sound more (they're even _more_ clicky), and the slightly shorter travel distance makes it kind of feel like it's pushing my typing even faster....kind of like driving downhill. And the tactile bump doesn't really feel like an actual _bump_ like with MX blues, it feels more like....










But a lot lighter obviously.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I dunno, really. I always liked the sound more (they're even _more_ clicky), and the slightly shorter travel distance makes it kind of feel like it's pushing my typing even faster....kind of like driving downhill. And the tactile bump doesn't really feel like an actual _bump_ like with MX blues, it feels more like....










But a lot lighter obviously.


Hmm... y'know, I've noticed that we seem to have similar keyboard preference types, and this might be yet another. I mean, I like what I read here except that I am unsure of what these things in the picture feel like.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Hmm... y'know, I've noticed that we seem to have similar keyboard preference types, and this might be yet another. I mean, I like what I read here except that I am unsure of what these things in the picture feel like.


Those are those clicker things they use to train dogs and what not.









I guess all you can really do is get a super-cheap White Alps board off ebay and try it out


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Those are those clicker things they use to train dogs and what not.









I guess all you can really do is get a super-cheap White Alps board off ebay and try it out










Yea, I wasn't really sure what those were either, lol.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I'm heading out to the thrift store again (the only thrift store this side of the river...w tf), gonna look for mechanicals. Will I strike it rich and find an M15 or NIB Model F? Or will I find a more realistic Model M or AT101W? Or will I find what I did the last time I went two months ago: a bunch of junk rubber domes?

Only time will tell. Sancho! My shaving cream!


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I'm heading out to the thrift store again (the only thrift store this side of the river...w tf), gonna look for mechanicals. Will I strike it rich and find an M15 or NIB Model F? Or will I find a more realistic Model M or AT101W? Or will I find what I did the last time I went two months ago: a bunch of junk rubber domes?

Only time will tell. Sancho! My shaving cream!


Haha good luck. I definitely should pay a visit to my thrift store sometime too.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Failure: nothing mechanical. There was a vaguely interesting ergonomic keyboard with the model # "SK-6000". It had discreet rubber domes and mouse buttons on the keyboard. However, it wasn't $8 interesting.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Failure: nothing mechanical. There was a vaguely interesting ergonomic keyboard with the model # "SK-6000". It had discreet rubber domes and mouse buttons on the keyboard. However, it wasn't $8 interesting.

Aw...perhaps another time.


----------



## fssbzz

try to find custom keycaps for das.
ask their help support.

Quote:

Comment by: Das Keyboard Support
.---
| I'm glad you are enjoying the keyboard! We do not offer custom key caps, and there isn't another company that manufactures key caps to specifically fit Das Keyboard. I don't know if there are other key caps that might be interchangeable, but they will not be specific to our keyboard. Sorry I can't help more with that.
|
| Best,
|
| Erin
this is what i got


----------



## Tator Tot

You can get a custom OCN Keycap that'll fit your Das's ESC key.

You could also get blank-key sets from Filco that would fit on your Das, but most likely not perfect.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
You can get a custom OCN Keycap that'll fit your Das's ESC key.

You could also get blank-key sets from Filco that would fit on your Das, but most likely not perfect.

lol im trying to find the perfect one.
for my W,A,S,D

found this, wonder it will fit.
http://www.fentek-ind.com/keys.htm


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
lol im trying to find the perfect one.
for my W,A,S,D

found this, wonder it will fit.
http://www.fentek-ind.com/keys.htm

lol you gonna custom order some?

if so lemme know lol maybe i'll want a different color wasd also


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
lol you gonna custom order some?

if so lemme know lol maybe i'll want a different color wasd also

maybe.








but wonder if it is the same height same size as the DAS default


----------



## Blueduck3285

Quote:


Originally Posted by *klaxian* 
G110 is a rubber dome keyboard. However, it is constructed with higher quality than most. I just upgraded to a Deck Legend from a G110 and there is still a huge difference though. The LEDs are far superior as well.

What keyboard did you upgrade to, I love my G110 and if you found a mech one that you like better, might work for me as well.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
maybe.








but wonder if it is the same height same size as the DAS default

there was the site that had all the weird custom keys i saw at geekhack but they didn't really have anything i wanted

i gotta say i do like the filco purpley keys


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Have you guys seen these skull cap keycaps on geekhack? There was a thread with a bunch more really cool specialized designs too but I can't seem to find it. Can only find this:










http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:8431


----------



## Manyak

Yup, but he's not selling them yet









He _is_ in the middle of ramping up production though, so it shouldn't be much longer.

Thread here.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Yup, but he's not selling them yet









He _is_ in the middle of ramping up production though, so it shouldn't be much longer.

Thread here.

noooooooooooo
that would look so awesome

manyak can you include a list of sites that sell individual keys for mechanical keyboards?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I've got a review sample of the Xarmor U9BL backlit mechanical keyboard on the way. This will be a fun one to review, I haven't had a backlit keyboard since I used that Saitek Eclipse II at my grandma's house. Except I expect the U9BL should be substantially better than that.









I'll let y'all know what I think when I get it.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I've got a review sample of the Xarmor U9BL backlit mechanical keyboard on the way. This will be a fun one to review, I haven't had a backlit keyboard since I used that Saitek Eclipse II at my grandma's house. Except I expect the U9BL should be substantially better than that.









I'll let y'all know what I think when I get it.

do a comparison with the das from memory?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Of course. Though they're kind of different markets.

Too bad I don't get to keep these keyboards. But it's to be expected, since Metadot and XARMOR are relatively small companies. The only company that's let me keep review samples is Antec, and they're a multi-million dollar corporation.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Yup, but he's not selling them yet









He _is_ in the middle of ramping up production though, so it shouldn't be much longer.

Thread here.

This link is soooooooo win. I want at least 8 of those dual molded flat profile red eye skulls for my home row... maybe some of the textured ones too, though I'm wondering if that might feel funny for typing.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*


This link is soooooooo win. I want at least 8 of those dual molded flat profile red eye skulls for my home row... maybe some of the textured ones too, though I'm wondering if that might feel funny for typing.











I particularly like the splat designs. I think they're really neat







.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Blueduck3285*


What keyboard did you upgrade to, I love my G110 and if you found a mech one that you like better, might work for me as well.


He upgraded to one of the Deck Legend "Ice" boards:

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/

Many people feel that these are just about the absolute best, highest-quality mechanical keyboards available.

However, I upgraded from the Lycosa and also the G15 Rev.2 to the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO (link), and it was a *massive* upgrade. Everything about this board is dramatically superior to both the Lycosa and the G15.

So it's just best to first do some research to find out which switch type you believe you would like the most, and then find out which keyboard you think you would like the most that has that switch type.

In other words, try to avoid jumping into the world of mechanical keyboards without first making sure you are making an informed decision.


----------



## ThirdLap

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Glad you're enjoying them









But hey, what switches does that packintell have? it looks almost like an Omnikey, but different.


They look like white Alps, but the lettering on the switches looks more like 'APC' or 'RPC'. Ripster on GH is saying they are Simplified Type 2's (XMs). While I do like the layout, the activation point is decidedly different than a proper white Alps. What is interesting is the sound reminds me of a cross between an M and a white Alps... there is a distinct metallic quality to it.

My guess is that SBI Computer Products (Packintell) wanted to emulate the Omnikey Ultra at a lower cost, so they had Key Mouse Electronic Enterprise (KME) of Taiwan produce a similar design using Alps-like switches. SBI (Packintell) was a small computer company in Sacramento in the late 80s/early 90s.


----------



## ThirdLap

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz*


Haha good luck. I definitely should pay a visit to my thrift store sometime too.


I hit about a dozen a week, sometimes more. My best finds so far are a couple of Omnikeys for a buck. Old computer surplus stores have turned up a few good finds as well.


----------



## ThirdLap

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


You're very welcome!









Anyway, that's quite a nice collection!! Do you have a favorite yet?


Thanks! As far as a favorite, I suppose I'm torn between my Omnikey 101 and my Ms. I'm giving the 101 a week-long trial, and will then switch back to my M to gauge which of the two I prefer. I love the build quality, layout, and metallic-sounding activation of the M, so I have a feeling I'll end up switching back.

The 102 is great as well, but the wear on the switches is considerably more apparent, as some no longer click. Somebody loved/used the heck out of that thing.

I've never tried blue Alps, so that's something to look forward to.


----------



## Nuc

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


He upgraded to one of the Deck Legend "Ice" boards:

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/

Many people feel that these are just about the absolute best, highest-quality mechanical keyboards available.


I wish there was a store in NYC I could test a linear switch. J&R only has a Das Pro to test, and the rest of the computer stores here are lame. I'd hate to buy a Das or Filco only to find out I would have preferred a linear switch. Anyone know of any?


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nuc*


I wish there was a store in NYC I could test a linear switch. J&R only has a Das Pro to test, and the rest of the computer stores here are lame. I'd hate to buy a Das or Filco only to find out I would have preferred a linear switch. Anyone know of any?


I would have thought J&R had Steelseries 7G's for you to try out. If not, you could try other brick & mortar stores...as Steelseries is a popular gaming brand so I'm sure they would have the keyboards on display to try out.


----------



## TwoCables

I'm finally doing it: I'm typing on my Lycosa right now, and this is the first time I've typed on it since I upgraded from it back on March 9th (I have since returned my G15 which was still new enough to return).

I am embarrassed to admit that I still kinda like the rubber coating. But I think that it makes up for the way the rubber domes respond or something - I really don't know. I'm even more embarrassed to admit that the typing technique I have developed for my Filco Majestouch Tactile Click is working surprisingly well on the Lycosa; I hover my wrists while I type so that I can be completely relaxed. Of course, it's not working as well as it works for the Majestouch, but it's still a better typing experience than I _used_ to have on this Lycosa! I mean, I always kept my wrists planted while typing on it. So typing this up wasn't as awful of an experience as I thought it was going to be.

I guess what I'm saying is that even though the typing experience on the Lycosa is inferior to the Tactile Click, this technique should improve the typing experience for anyone on any keyboard - but that's not why I am posting; I am just bored!

However, I have 1 other keyboard to try before I go back to my Majestouch (this is a pic I found using Google Images):










It's a cheap $20 Dell "QuietKey" multimedia keyboard. I replaced this with the Lycosa. When I begin typing on it in the next paragraph, it will be the first time I've used it in perhaps 2 years.









*Typing on the keyboard in the picture:*

Ok, well this is an interesting experience. This is the first time that I have ever typed properly on this keyboard. I mean, this is the very first time that I have ever hovered my wrists while typing on it, and I'm just flying. Of course, it's certainly requiring more force for each keystroke and of course it's mushy and whatnot, but I mean that it's kind of neat to be experiencing this proper "hovering wrists" typing technique on this crappy little keyboard.

The Lycosa is definitely a better keyboard than this Dell though. But I think that's due to my Dell keyboard being kind of old. I mean, I think I used my Lycosa for less than a year while I got at least 7-8 years out of my Dell!

However, I have only been goofing off with my Lycosa and this Dell for about 15 minutes, but I'm already longing for my Majestouch. But I'm glad I did this even though my fingers probably aren't: I'm already feeling the fatigue from this little workout - even a little bit of physical pain.

*Edit:* omg. I'm typing on my Majestouch Tactile Click again. Y'know what?! I damn-near forgot how much better this is than both that Dell and even the Lycosa! I mean, if those two keyboards were my only two keyboard choices in this entire world, then I'd choose the Lycosa. But damn... I've become so used to the Tactile Click that going back to it after experimenting with my old rubber domes for like 20 minutes gives me a new appreciation for it.

*It's just like I've said before: *with both the Lycosa and that Dell board (_especially_ with the Dell board because it's older), it feels like the keyboard is working _against_ me and making me do all the work. But with the Tactile Click, it feels like it's working *with* me and doing half the work! It's like the difference between drumming on a pillow vs. drumming on a very high-quality and well-tuned snare drum.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Many people feel that these are just about the absolute best, highest-quality mechanical keyboards available.


There are also some people who think that the earth is flat.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


There are also some people who think that the earth is flat.


Yeah, and that's why I didn't say _"Deck's keyboards are the best keyboards available"_.

So do you have an opinion as to which is the best? I know what I'm asking, but I'm also trying to further illustrate the point I made.


----------



## ch_123

In terms of keyboards still in production? Anything from Unicomp or Topre, depending on the specifics of the requirement.


----------



## pow3rtr1p

My "S" key is chattering on my Tenkeyless Otaku Cherry Blue. Is there a way to resolve it?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Yeah, and that's why I didn't say _"Deck's keyboards are the best keyboards available"_.

So do you have an opinion as to which is the best? I know what I'm asking, but I'm also trying to further illustrate the point I made.

I can say out of the mech boards I've used:

Cherry MX Blacks (Majestouch Linear Force)
Cherry MX Browns (Majestouch Tactile Touch)
Cherry MX Reds ( G80-3600)
Cherry MX Blue (Majestouch Tactile Click "Otaku")
Simplified Black Alps (ABS M1)
Alps Strongman (Matias Tactile Pro 2.0)
Cherry MX Brown (Das Model S Professional Silent)
& Black Alps (Dell AT101W)
(I might be missing a board)

that the Deck I have right now (Ice Tactile) is the best I've used yet in terms of build quality, and switches of my preference.

I'm looking into getting a Topre board to try that out, but this Deck has me very satisfied so far. The only thing I could say that I would want would be a nice carrying case to be included with it









Though beyond the Steel Series & Das boards features with USB hubs and such; they were all very similar boards. The Deck seemed to be the most "sturdy" and "durable" feeling in terms of build quality.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I can say out of the mech boards I've used:

Cherry MX Blacks (Majestouch Linear Force)
Cherry MX Browns (Majestouch Tactile Touch)
Cherry MX Reds ( G80-3600)
Cherry MX Blue (Majestouch Tactile Click "Otaku")
Simplified Black Alps (ABS M1)
Alps Strongman (Matias Tactile Pro 2.0)
Cherry MX Black (Das Model S Professional Silent)
& Black Alps (Dell AT101W)
(I might be missing a board)

that the Deck I have right now (Ice Tactile) is the best I've used yet in terms of build quality, and switches of my preference.

I'm looking into getting a Topre board to try that out, but this Deck has me very satisfied so far. The only thing I could say that I would want would be a nice carrying case to be included with it









Though beyond the Steel Series & Das boards features with USB hubs and such; they were all very similar boards. The Deck seemed to be the most "sturdy" and "durable" feeling in terms of build quality.

The das silent is brown switches and wow you had a lot of them did you resell them or return them before moving on?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
The das silent is brown switches and wow you had a lot of them did you resell them or return them before moving on?

Fixed that with the Das.
And yeah I sold most of them.

I still have my AT101W IIRC, I haven't sold that yet. The only board I didn't sell was the Matias Tactile Pro 2.0, I gave that to my Apple buddy to use with his iMac. He liked my ABS M1's feel. And wanted his own Mech board.

I just took it out the box and made sure I got the good model. And played with it some. Then gave it to him as a present.

I don't think I'm ever gonna sell the AT101W, it has my OCN key on it, and I'm going to paint it whenever I get the time/money so it looks nicer.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I'm looking into getting a Topre board to try that out, but this Deck has me very satisfied so far. The only thing I could say that I would want would be a nice carrying case to be included with it









IMHO, the Topres have a better feel than any of the Alps or Cherry switches. The Realforce keyboards are also meant to be one of the best built keyboards around.


----------



## Tator Tot

I can't really say yet; the only thing holding me back is the price and the fact that I want to get a fullsized keyboard (IE: the Realforce 103.)


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I can't really say yet; the only thing holding me back is the price and the fact that I want to get a fullsized keyboard (IE: the Realforce 103.)


How is wanting a full size keyboard holding you back?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


How is wanting a full size keyboard holding you back?


As in I could offset the cost for a 84 Key Topre board. 
But I want/need (as I use my Num-pad all the time) a full sized one.


----------



## godofdeath

what other brands are there to topre besides realforce, i dont like the key colors all black


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Happy Hacker.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Happy Hacker.

lol also with black or no keys and 10 key less lol

yea i like a full board

guess ill stick to my das for now


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
lol also with black or no keys and 10 key less lol

yea i like a full board

guess ill stick to my das for now

You can get the realforce in the standard white/gray color scheme: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...&pid=rf_se1200


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I've got a review sample of the Xarmor U9BL backlit mechanical keyboard on the way. This will be a fun one to review, I haven't had a backlit keyboard since I used that Saitek Eclipse II at my grandma's house. Except I expect the U9BL should be substantially better than that.









I'll let y'all know what I think when I get it.

nice man im looking foward to that.
so you have to return it once u done reviewing?
please let me know is it worth the money to get that U9BL


----------



## Phaedrus2129

They actually told me in their last email that I'd get to keep it. So yay! I'm all for journalistic integrity, but I'm not above taking free stuff when it's offered. I won't let it affect my judgement; I already know a few downsides I can point out, though to be honest there isn't much to dislike about this keyboard. It's $150, which is the price of a Filco+shipping. That's a pretty good deal imo.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
They actually told me in their last email that I'd get to keep it. So yay! I'm all for journalistic integrity, but I'm not above taking free stuff when it's offered. I won't let it affect my judgement; I already know a few downsides I can point out, though to be honest there isn't much to dislike about this keyboard. It's $150, which is the price of a Filco+shipping. That's a pretty good deal imo.

i will probably get it after ur review.







please remember to put the review link on ur signature.


----------



## Kamakazi

I will be interested to see this UB9L review as well.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
They actually told me in their last email that I'd get to keep it. So yay! I'm all for journalistic integrity, but I'm not above taking free stuff when it's offered. I won't let it affect my judgement; I already know a few downsides I can point out, though to be honest there isn't much to dislike about this keyboard. It's $150, which is the price of a Filco+shipping. That's a pretty good deal imo.

How did you end up getting a review sample?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
How did you end up getting a review sample?

I have a website. I think I've linked it to you in the past.

Here's the Das review I did (currently #2 Google result for "Das Professional S Review"):
http://hardwareaware.com/review/das-professional-s/


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I have a website. I think I've linked it to you in the past.

Here's the Das review I did (currently #2 Google result for "Das Professional S Review"):
http://hardwareaware.com/review/das-professional-s/

You do some pretty awesome reviews.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kamakazi* 
You do some pretty awesome reviews.

Thanks.









Website needs work though...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I have a website. I think I've linked it to you in the past.

Here's the Das review I did (currently #2 Google result for "Das Professional S Review"):
http://hardwareaware.com/review/das-professional-s/


I had a feeling that you had a site! Although, I don't recognize it! But damn, I sure do like it.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Thanks.









Website needs work though...


If you need any websiting help just let me know, I have been known to do a few on the side.

Anyway, back on about mechanical keyboards.

I did actually get to use one today, it was an older ABS M1 that a guy had at work. This was a horrible thing, just makes me want a Das all the more.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


If you need any websiting help just let me know, I have been known to do a few on the side.

Anyway, back on about mechanical keyboards.

I did actually get to use one today, it was an older ABS M1 that a guy had at work. This was a horrible thing, just makes me want a Das all the more.


im selling a DAS brown lol

love the clicky blues all so much more


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


You can get the realforce in the standard white/gray color scheme: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...&pid=rf_se1200


nah i wanted the thing in black and the letters and symbols to be in white
like a cheap delll keyboard


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


If you need any websiting help just let me know, I have been known to do a few on the side.

Anyway, back on about mechanical keyboards.

I did actually get to use one today, it was an older ABS M1 that a guy had at work. This was a horrible thing, just makes me want a Das all the more.


Do you mean THIS Das Model S? Click it and then scroll down for a surprise!









After that, go here. But only after!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


nah i wanted the thing in black and the letters and symbols to be in white
like a cheap delll keyboard


I believe they laser mark the caps, which only results in black (the color of burnt plastic I assume). I honestly don't know why they bothered marking the black caps with black.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Do you mean THIS Das Model S? Click it and then scroll down for a surprise!









After that, go here. But only after!


Well the problem isn't with finding it, it is buying it, you know the money part.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


Well the problem isn't with finding it, it is buying it, you know the money part.


Oh. Well, I suppose you could always sell your body.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Oh. Well, I suppose you could always sell your body.










You buyin'?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


You buyin'?


I'm all tapped out!


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I'm all tapped out!










Pity.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


Pity.


Plus, I just remembered that I already have my own.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


what other brands are there to topre besides realforce, i dont like the key colors all black


They make white ones too!


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Do you mean THIS Das Model S? Click it and then scroll down for a surprise!









After that, go here. But only after!


That is a pretty good deal. They're selling the keyboard as Das would sell it with student discount, haha...good for people who aren't students.


----------



## pow3rtr1p

Does anyone have any thoughts as to my chattering S? Should I send it in for warranty work?


----------



## HoppyBlaster

Wow, after finding this link, not only did you all get me jazzed up enough to get the Filco FKBN104M/EB, I had to create an account to let you know my joy!

Nice, wholesome, clicky goodness is in this here keyboard.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Sounds like a solid plan to me.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pow3rtr1p*


Does anyone have any thoughts as to my chattering S? Should I send it in for warranty work?


Some people have had success with washing out the switch with distilled water, WD40, and possibly isopropanol too. That said, I'd send an email to the appropriate vendor before you take any potential action.


----------



## magicmike

I'm typing this from my Das Model S Ultimate (Silent) right now and am loving my new keyboard.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz* 
That is a pretty good deal. They're selling the keyboard as Das would sell it with student discount, haha...good for people who aren't students.

hehe yep, that's exactly why I posted it.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *HoppyBlaster* 
Wow, after finding this link, not only did you all get me jazzed up enough to get the Filco FKBN104M/EB, I had to create an account to let you know my joy!

Nice, wholesome, clicky goodness is in this here keyboard.

Nice!!!









By the way, the Cherry MX Browns aren't clicky. I mean, just for the future, the sound you're experiencing is "clacky" because the switches themselves don't make a click.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *magicmike* 
I'm typing this from my Das Model S Ultimate (Silent) right now and am loving my new keyboard.

Nice!!


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
hehe yep, that's exactly why I posted it.









Nice!!!









By the way, the Cherry MX Browns aren't clicky. I mean, just for the future, the sound you're experiencing is "clacky" because the switches themselves don't make a click.









Nice!!









Talk about splitting hairs, click, clack, tomato tomaaato.

So really, since I am a student for at least another year, that is my deadline for getting a Das.


----------



## HoppyBlaster

>>> By the way, the Cherry MX Browns aren't clicky. I mean, just for the future, the sound you're experiencing is "clacky" because the switches themselves don't make a click. <<<

I stand corrected...clacky.

It is much more, click, err clacky, then the now-retired Saitek.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HoppyBlaster*


>>> By the way, the Cherry MX Browns aren't clicky. I mean, just for the future, the sound you're experiencing is "clacky" because the switches themselves don't make a click. <<<

I stand corrected...clacky.

It is much more, click, err clacky, then the now-retired Saitek.


*looks at Saitek in front of him*.....


----------



## wr3ck3dm1nd

Anyone use the Filco Leather Palm rests? Is it worth the price?


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wr3ck3dm1nd*


Anyone use the Filco Leather Palm rests? Is it worth the price?


get this one.
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Wrist-Keybo...1142413&sr=8-7
is basicly works like the same
the only thing that Filco is more expensive, because it is made of leather.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


Talk about splitting hairs, click, clack, tomato tomaaato.


It's not the same as that, though. It's more about using the correct terminology to avoid the confusion of anyone who's new to mechanical keyboards (and new to this thread too). I mean, at least concerning the Cherry MX series, the only switches that "click" are the Blues. The rest don't make any sound on their own, so any keyboard outfitted with the rest will just be "clacky" - but only when bottoming out.

In other words, I feel it's important to make sure that the definition of the word "click" doesn't change from being a reference to the sound of a mechanical switch, and that the word "clacky" doesn't change from being a reference to the sound of bottoming out. I mean, a keyboard outfitted with the Cherry MX Blacks is not a "clicky" keyboard.

I apologize for getting serious, but I feel that this is important enough to justify it.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


get this one.
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Wrist-Keybo...1142413&sr=8-7
is basicly works like the same
the only thing that Filco is more expensive, because it is made of leather.


I think it's also due to carrying the Filco brand name.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I think it's also due to carrying the Filco brand name.










oh ya, absolutely & Definitely


----------



## De-Zant

BTW, the guide says that PS2 wins all around... 
How about additional buttons. Like macro buttons?
If you play like MMO's and need all buttons to chat, and would like macros like the Sidewinder x6 or like logitech g15, could PS2 provide them?

This is just me wondering. I have no real use for this as I don't need macros or additional buttons.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


BTW, the guide says that PS2 wins all around... 
How about additional buttons. Like macro buttons?
If you play like MMO's and need all buttons to chat, and would like macros like the Sidewinder x6 or like logitech g15, could PS2 provide them?

This is just me wondering. I have no real use for this as I don't need macros or additional buttons.


Yes PS/2 supports Macro keys.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Yes PS/2 supports Macro keys.


Oh... I was just wondering, because I haven't seen a single PS2 keyboard that had additional buttons. Seemed odd to me.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


Oh... I was just wondering, because I haven't seen a single PS2 keyboard that had additional buttons. Seemed odd to me.


What about this one?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


Oh... I was just wondering, because I haven't seen a single PS2 keyboard that had additional buttons. Seemed odd to me.


PS/2 isn't limited like that. It's just that if there was a mechanical version of the G15 created using the Cherry MX Browns or Blacks, then it would probably cost upwards of $300.


----------



## KruperTrooper

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


PS/2 isn't limited like that. It's just that if there was a mechanical version of the G15 created using the Cherry MX Browns or Blacks, then it would probably cost upwards of $300.


I'd probably buy it. Wouldn't it be more like $200? Das Model S Professional Silent ($135) + Logitech G15 ($100) = $235? Maybe even cheaper since you don't have 2 sets of keys and 2 housings. I was thinking of that the other day. Why not have a mechanical G15??? I'm sure people would buy it.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


What about this one?











That's the first I've seen.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I'm here to tell you that I'm using it right now.


















$230 keyboard for $35, woot.


----------



## De-Zant

That looks so complex. But It'd be useful to have a macro key for FF, Steam Audacity, Paint, And other stuff... How old is that keyboard (I mean when was the keyboard first sold?)?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


That looks so complex. But It'd be useful to have a macro key for FF, Steam Audacity, Paint, And other stuff... How old is that keyboard (I mean when was the keyboard first sold?)?


It can't be too old, it has the new style windows key (has a circle around the windows symbol lol). They're meant for cash registers and such.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I bought it new in box in April or May I believe. Place called Espot was doing clearance, selling a dozen of them for $35 each since they weren't selling at MSRP ($250). A few other members here and on Geekhack picked it up as well.

It isn't all that complex.
http://hardwareaware.com/review/62/


----------



## De-Zant

I know I'd be searching for the arrow keys a lot during the first week of using it.
After that it would be great.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KruperTrooper*


I'd probably buy it. Wouldn't it be more like $200? Das Model S Professional Silent ($135) + Logitech G15 ($100) = $235? Maybe even cheaper since you don't have 2 sets of keys and 2 housings. I was thinking of that the other day. Why not have a mechanical G15??? I'm sure people would buy it.


I only said "upwards" of $300. I mean, I honestly don't know _how_ much a mechanical version of the G15 would cost. However, consider the cost of the most-expensive Deck keyboard: $176.00 for the Deck Legend Frost. I think that the mechanical version of the G15 would have to cost at _least_ $250 for the extra G-keys, the LCD screen, and the 2-tone finish! But don't forget that it would still have the LED backlighting. Plus, I have a feeling that the price would have to include the "Logitech" brand name. So $250 might be a conservative guess.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


I know I'd be searching for the arrow keys a lot during the first week of using it.
After that it would be great.


But the arrow keys are in the exact same spot with or without the extra keys.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But the arrow keys are in the exact same spot with or without the extra keys.











But they have a bunch of keys around them. They don't stick out like they used to. I don't even have to look at the keyboard and still see that arrow keys are there. This would make them harder to spot.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

He has a point, it did take a bit to get used to. Only a couple weeks though. The vertical enter key is the real PITA; I had to remap \\ to enter, enter to backspace, and backspace to \\.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


He has a point, it did take a bit to get used to. Only a couple weeks though. The vertical enter key is the real PITA; I had to remap \\ to enter, enter to backspace, and backspace to \\.


The Enter button on the finnish layout looks like that to make room for the letters Ã¶ Ã¤ Ã¥.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Yeah, that's the standard style in the EU; note the keyboard was made in Germany. I first ran into that in Denmark they have (Ã¥, Ã¦, and Ã¸). Man I had trouble typing at the hotel internet cafÃ©.


----------



## De-Zant

Talking about different layouts, I once tried a french layout at an airport lounge. First I thought it was broken or something (or someone had messed with settings) but then I looked down and saw the layout. It was weird. I wonder how they handle FPS games... Would they have to remap everything?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I'm not sure...


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


Talking about different layouts, I once tried a french layout at an airport lounge. First I thought it was broken or something (or someone had messed with settings) but then I looked down and saw the layout. It was weird. I wonder how they handle FPS games... Would they have to remap everything?


The games would come with a different mapping by default.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

In addition to reviewing the U9BL I may be doing some product testing for them. This means I won't be able to review many of their future products on HWA aside from the U9BL (potential conflict of interest and all), but I will be able to provide insight for them into how they can improve their products, and also might be able to voice some opinions from OCN. However, you'll have to make suggestions blind as in-development products would be NDA. But if you have any general ideas you'd like passed along I should be able to do that.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


In addition to reviewing the U9BL I may be doing some product testing for them. This means I won't be able to review many of their future products on HWA aside from the U9BL (potential conflict of interest and all), but I will be able to provide insight for them into how they can improve their products, and also might be able to voice some opinions from OCN. However, you'll have to make suggestions blind as in-development products would be NDA. But if you have any general ideas you'd like passed along I should be able to do that.


I have a great suggestion... Don't put cherry blue on a gaming keyboard







.









Next they should make a keyboard with red backlighting and mx red switches.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


In addition to reviewing the U9BL I may be doing some product testing for them. This means I won't be able to review many of their future products on HWA aside from the U9BL (potential conflict of interest and all), but I will be able to provide insight for them into how they can improve their products, and also might be able to voice some opinions from OCN. However, you'll have to make suggestions blind as in-development products would be NDA. But if you have any general ideas you'd like passed along I should be able to do that.


ask them to make the back lit color can be change to own favourite color. just like the CM storm sentinel mouse.
put more macro/media key on it key.
and the numpad can be detachable and reattach at the left/right side of the keyboard like side winder








with the small LCD screen on top of the keyboard that can monitor ur temp all your system process. LOL
everything that could possibly add into a keyboard.
end up the new keyboard is going to cost like $500 LOL


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I have a great suggestion... Don't put cherry blue on a gaming keyboard







.









Next they should make a keyboard with red backlighting and mx red switches.


Rather like blue backlight and mx blacks.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


ask them to make the back lit color can be change to own favourite color. just like the CM storm sentinel mouse.
put more macro/media key on it key.
and the numpad can be detachable and reattach at the left/right side of the keyboard like side winder








with the small LCD screen on top of the keyboard that can monitor ur temp all your system process. LOL
everything that could possibly add into a keyboard.
end up the new keyboard is going to cost like $500 LOL


I don't know if RGB LEDs is possible on a mechanical keyboard. In a rubber dome keyboard the LEDs are just addons spaced around the outside. In a mechanical keyboard they're an integral part of the electronics, the diodes (LED = light emitting diode) are what make a keyboard NKRO. I don't know if you can have multiple diodes in series per switch without screwing up the circuit. Plus you'd need control circuitry... Even without the other stuff you said it would still probably end up in the $300+ zone.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I don't know if RGB LEDs is possible on a mechanical keyboard. In a rubber dome keyboard the LEDs are just addons spaced around the outside. In a mechanical keyboard they're an integral part of the electronics, the diodes (LED = light emitting diode) are what make a keyboard NKRO. I don't know if you can have multiple diodes in series per switch without screwing up the circuit. Plus you'd need control circuitry... Even without the other stuff you said it would still probably end up in the $300+ zone.


damm, lol i didn't even know that.
it make sense tho, too many different or multiple diodes will end up screwing up the circuit of the keyboard.

well..if it will cost so much, end up alot of ppl cant afford it compare to other keyboard in the market.
i would just stick with what they have, suggest more choice on key switches, different color for different switches.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


They make white ones too!


i wanted black with white letters not black with black, who can see that, night as well have gone keyless if i wanted that


----------



## ch_123

Oh right.

Topre keycaps are printed using dye sublimation, which cannot be used for printing white letters. Unless they change the way they make keycaps, they can't make white on black ones.


----------



## pow3rtr1p

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


Rather like blue backlight and mx blacks.


Blue LEDs are so overused. Green LEDs and MX Blacks.

Oh wait, Deck did that forever ago...


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pow3rtr1p*


Blue LEDs are so overused. Green LEDs and MX Blacks.

Oh wait, Deck did that forever ago...


But most gaming peripherals are blue. I don't wanna have a green keyboard with a blue mouse....


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pow3rtr1p*


Blue LEDs are so overused. Green LEDs and MX Blacks.

Oh wait, Deck did that forever ago...


the led colors most used are

orange/amber/w.e you want to call it
blue
green

red here and there

i do like the blue led on my das as its not freakishly bright


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Haha, I prefer no backlighting...I like my keyboards simple.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


the led colors most used are

orange/amber/w.e you want to call it
blue
green

red here and there

i do like the blue led on my das as its not freakishly bright


"Freakishly bright" is good as long as you can turn it down a bit.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


"Freakishly bright" is good as long as you can turn it down a bit.


well the freakishly bright part is only refering to the caps/scroll/num lock part

besides that there is no backlight lol

thank god or else i wouldnt be using it or have bought it


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *De-Zant* 
But most gaming peripherals are blue. I don't wanna have a green keyboard with a blue mouse....

They already have a blue one, I assume suggestions would be for a different model, or more minor ones for a revision.


----------



## Hoodcom

I thought I should mention that I have finally placed an order on this:

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...id=fkbn104mceb

today.


----------



## McStuff

Was searching a little while for a Model M at thrift stores to no avail. I finally broke down and managed to score one on ebay for 26.49 shipped.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hoodcom*


I thought I should mention that I have finally placed an order on this:

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...id=fkbn104mceb

today.










Congratulations. I think you'll enjoy it









What keyboard do you use now?


----------



## TwoCables

He uses the Logitech G15.

Oh man, I am really looking forward to seeing what he thinks of this keyboard. I know he's gonna love it!!


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Not toooo many with the full sized Blue Filco.

Still loving my Tenkeyless Brown Cherry here. Gaming is really fun. Though I know if they made a Tenkeyless Red Cherry I would get it immediately.


----------



## McStuff

Any word on what to expect with my model m? Here's the auction link. I'm typing on a dell keyboard that I got with a prebuilt, which must have been at least 4 years ago. Also, since it has removable key caps, can I just switch them around to dvorak? I'm interested in giving it a shot.


----------



## Crazy9000

Moving the keycaps shouldn't be too much of a problem, hopefully. Some keyboards do have a slant on the keycaps, so having that mashed up may be weird.


----------



## McStuff

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Moving the keycaps shouldn't be too much of a problem, hopefully. Some keyboards do have a slant on the keycaps, so having that mashed up may be weird.


Ya, I got that when I tried to move keys to dvorak on another keyboard. Some keys just flat out didn't work. Oh well.


----------



## Hoodcom

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


He uses the Logitech G15.

Oh man, I am really looking forward to seeing what he thinks of this keyboard. I know he's gonna love it!!


Yeah, on the main desktop, but since I stopped using it since the blasted push pins on the CPU cooler stopped holding, I was using a wireless logitech on the second desktop, which I haven't used for a while as well. Lol

Keyboard I've been using the most is my laptop's, which isn't bad for me.

However, when I went to do some artwork last night, I needed an external keyboard on my laptop to have in front of the external display... I had to use some Zboard that mom doesn't use anymore...

Ugh, first few seconds of use, I decided to buy a real keyboard.

So the mechanical keyboard that will be on it's way will be used on a couple different machines. Lol


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoodcom* 
Yeah, on the main desktop, but since I stopped using it since the blasted push pins on the CPU cooler stopped holding, I was using a wireless logitech on the second desktop, which I haven't used for a while as well. Lol

Keyboard I've been using the most is my laptop's, which isn't bad for me.

However, when I went to do some artwork last night, I needed an external keyboard on my laptop to have in front of the external display... I had to use some Zboard that mom doesn't use anymore...

Ugh, first few seconds of use, I decided to buy a real keyboard.

So the mechanical keyboard that will be on it's way will be used on a couple different machines. Lol









I think that you're going to like it so much that you may end up wanting more than one!


----------



## McStuff

Does the model m have dye sublimated lettering?


----------



## Manyak

Yes


----------



## Tator Tot

Anyone looking for some good deals on Newegg right now,

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/20736522160.


----------



## Hoodcom

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I think that you're going to like it so much that you may end up wanting more than one!


When that becomes the case, I would likely get a model with out the NKRO if there are any difference in it's use over USB.

Because I would have one handy for my laptop, and I can only use USB on it.

In any case, the one I am getting now will likely be used the most on my laptop since I about use it all the time. Lol


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoodcom* 
When that becomes the case, I would likely get a model with out the NKRO if there are any difference in it's use over USB.

Because I would have one handy for my laptop, and I can only use USB on it.

In any case, the one I am getting now will likely be used the most on my laptop since I about use it all the time. Lol

Actually, just don't use the PS/2 to USB adapter in order to test it.


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I don't know if RGB LEDs is possible on a mechanical keyboard. In a rubber dome keyboard the LEDs are just addons spaced around the outside. In a mechanical keyboard they're an integral part of the electronics, the diodes (LED = light emitting diode) are what make a keyboard NKRO. I don't know if you can have multiple diodes in series per switch without screwing up the circuit. Plus you'd need control circuitry... Even without the other stuff you said it would still probably end up in the $300+ zone.

You can only use single color or bicolor LEDs with Cherry MX switches because there are only two holes per switch for two pins. Also, if you wanna use LEDs then you cannot wire them into the keyboard matrix because the individual LEDs would only light up when related keys are being pressed.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

That would actually be pretty cool. Press a key and it lights up? I'd like to see it tried at least once, for effect. And only have the top of the key printed so the light shines out the sides. Yeah... That'd be cool as hell.


----------



## runeazn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mondalaci*


You can only use single color or bicolor LEDs with Cherry MX switches because there are only two holes per switch for two pins. Also, if you wanna use LEDs then you cannot wire them into the keyboard matrix because the individual LEDs would only light up when related keys are being pressed.


that still would be awesome, random color so you will be playing

*ooooh what for color will i get with this key and with that key XD *


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The U9BL is going to use coated dye-sub keys. So it shouldn't wear off, not this decade at least. No ugly blotches shining through the keycap like you get with Razer or Saitek boards. Not as good as Deck's double shots, but the board is cheaper and has more features, so meh.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


The U9BL is going to use coated dye-sub keys. So it shouldn't wear off, not this decade at least. No ugly blotches shining through the keycap like you get with Razer or Saitek boards. Not as good as Deck's double shots, but the board is cheaper and has more features, so meh.


How much will the U9BL be?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

It's $170 on their website, $150 on Amazon. Sorry, should have said "has" not "will have"; several people already have it.


----------



## cordawg92

I'm ordering my U9BL tomorrow from a Canadian distributor


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


It's $170 on their website, $150 on Amazon. Sorry, should have said "has" not "will have"; several people already have it.


At the Amazon price it's the same price as the Fire Deck, and only $10 less then all the rest except the Frost. At the $170 from their site, it's more then most of the Decks.


----------



## ThinkingofFish

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cordawg92*


I'm ordering my U9BL tomorrow from a Canadian distributor










What retailer would that be cord? I already caved and ordered it from ergogeek last week, but it'd be good to know.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

I was really looking forward to the U9BL until I found out the switches were blue. Just not sure if I will like them for gaming. Any gamers here use blue?


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer* 
I was really looking forward to the U9BL until I found out the switches were blue. Just not sure if I will like them for gaming. Any gamers here use blue?

I use blues, as well as Marin and IEATFISH, who I used to game competitively with on the official OCN TF2 team. It's honestly not that bad...it just takes some time getting used to. I was like you...wasn't really sure to choose between blues or browns. I ended up with blues because I realize typing was going to be much more important later on in life, and that I would get used to the blue keys for gaming...and I did. It's honestly not that bad. You just have to bottom out the keys when you game.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

How much force does it take for these normal dome keyboards? (ie: lycosa/g15) What switch would be the most comparable?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Most rubber dome keyboards take 45-60g, usually on the heavier side. So MX blues would be closest in force, though the polar opposite in feel.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Most rubber dome keyboards take 45-60g, usually on the heavier side. So MX blues would be closest in force, though the polar opposite in feel.


thanks


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer* 
I was really looking forward to the U9BL until I found out the switches were blue. Just not sure if I will like them for gaming. Any gamers here use blue?

You could always get a Deck instead. Roughly same ballpark pricing, MX Black/Clear switches, better quality.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


You could always get a Deck instead. Roughly same ballpark pricing, MX Black/Clear switches, better quality.


I'm going to see if that's true or not. There are differences in construction, but wait for my dissection until you decide if one is better than the other.

I have it by the way.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I'm going to see if that's true or not. There are differences in construction, but wait for my dissection until you decide if one is better than the other.

I have it by the way.


I have my doubts. And I don't believe the Xarmor uses industrial LED's either (from what I've seen of their video)


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Consider that if you get it from the site (and are in the first 500 to buy) you get a free cheap gaming mouse (though you actually pay $20 extra for buying from them







), plus if you're a student or teacher or school staff person you get 25% off.

$170 -(170*.25) = $127.5 for a backlit mechanical keyboard and a gaming mouse which you could resell for $25. That's actually pretty kickass.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Deck has better build quality. This isn't bad though.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Consider that if you get it from the site (and are in the first 500 to buy) you get a free cheap gaming mouse (though you actually pay $20 extra for buying from them







), plus if you're a student or teacher or school staff person you get 25% off.

$170 -(170*.25) = $127.5 for a backlit mechanical keyboard and a gaming mouse which you could resell for $25. That's actually pretty kickass.










awe man now i want to buy that lol

what are the buttons on the caps lock and scroll lock light things?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*


How much force does it take for these normal dome keyboards? (ie: lycosa/g15) What switch would be the most comparable?


All-55g Topres would be the closest match.


----------



## McStuff

Today, I was at frys looking for a mic when I saw a keyboard aisle. I started trying a few just for fun when one seemed really different. I looked down and it was a siig mechanical keyboard. Man, it felt good. That was the first one I had tried. Im definitely looking forward to my Model M.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *McStuff*


Today, I was at frys looking for a mic when I saw a keyboard aisle. I started trying a few just for fun when one seemed really different. I looked down and it was a siig mechanical keyboard. Man, it felt good. That was the first one I had tried. Im definitely looking forward to my Model M.


Nice!


----------



## MisterNoisy

Just picked up a Unicomp Customizer for use at work, though I'm temporarily using it on my gaming/home machine because I can.










I think I need to order a couple more - I'd almost forgotten how nice real feedback is. The only downer is that the keycaps still have visible flash where they clipped them off of the molding trees. It's still better than any other keyboard I've ever owned.


----------



## Crazy9000

That's a nice keyboard.


----------



## TwoCables

I have a feeling my next keyboard purchase will be SpaceSaver 104 in the same color as that one!


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MisterNoisy* 
Just picked up a Unicomp Customizer for use at work, though I'm temporarily using it on my gaming/home machine because I can.










I think I need to order a couple more - I'd almost forgotten how nice real feedback is. The only downer is that the keycaps still have visible flash where they clipped them off of the molding trees. It's still better than any other keyboard I've ever owned.

ooo old classic windows logo with the tail pixel end lol


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MisterNoisy* 
Just picked up a Unicomp Customizer for use at work, though I'm temporarily using it on my gaming/home machine because I can.










I think I need to order a couple more - I'd almost forgotten how nice real feedback is. The only downer is that the keycaps still have visible flash where they clipped them off of the molding trees. It's still better than any other keyboard I've ever owned.

good for you


----------



## ch_123

It's amazing those things aren't more popular than they are. Ugly as ****, but they're built like tanks, keycaps are great and the tactility is the best of any currently produced keyboard.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I agree, anyplace that noise, space, and looks aren't important I would seriously consider an IBM or Unicomp. I already use my vintage M for my shop computer, where the sound of 5000RPM NMB fans drown out the clicking keys.


----------



## ch_123

They are loud in terms of 'decibel' loudness, but the nose it makes is a relatively neutral low-pitched one (at least one in good condition is). Compare this with a Blue Cherry which makes a rather high pitched plasticky noise that I'd imagine would piss other people off far quicker.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


*Foam Element Switch*
Foam element switches, like rubber domes, came out of a need to make keyboards cheaper. The entire bottom of the pad is conductive, so the key is kept off the board by means of a spring. And underneath it you can find either a membrane sheet or a PCB. And as you can see in the picture on the bottom left, the contact area is enclosed by plastic to prevent dirt from getting underneath the pad.

...

Pros:
Spring provides quick snap back into resting position
Doesn't necessarily have to bottom out to actuate (the pad can touch the bottom without you feeling it)
Cons:
Dirt can get in between the foil and contacts
Contact foil wears out quickly
Foam degrades quickly and becomes mushy


A lot of Foam'n'Foil switches were capacitive in nature, and thus would have had a reasonable life time. I guess depending on implementation, if the contacts were exposed, corrosion from the air would wear the contacts down and interfere with the measurement of the capacitance.

It's a moot point anyway, because not only are they not made any more, most of them wouldn't be compatible with modern PCs anyway.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


A lot of Foam'n'Foil switches were capacitive in nature, and thus would have had a reasonable life time. I guess depending on implementation, if the contacts were exposed, corrosion from the air would wear the contacts down and interfere with the measurement of the capacitance.

It's a moot point anyway, because not only are they not made any more, most of them wouldn't be compatible with modern PCs anyway.


Meh, capacitive or not you always end up with the same result with those things - a crappy feel and a quick death.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I just swapped my step-dad's HP rubber dome keyboard with my G80-8200, and hid the rubber dome. So I'm forcing him to use a mechanical for at least a day.


----------



## Tator Tot

http://www.techpowerup.com/128542/Th..._Keyboard.html

Thermaltake's Meka G1 was announced today. No MSRP though

EDIT: Phaedrus get one, I have to many things coming in for review right now (4 different fans, 2 heatsinks, and 1 GPU.)


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I'll see what they say. I emailed them once before and got no response. I'll finish the XArmor review first, give me more cred.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I'll see what they say. I emailed them once before and got no response. I'll finish the XArmor review first, give me more cred.

You've got a few Keyboard reviews under your belt. So they might be better at considering you.

More so considering not alot of places care about getting a keyboard to review.

I'll see what I can do; but I don't have any friends at Thermaltake.


----------



## godofdeath

my quick 5 second review of pimpmykeyboards/parent company's keys

http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...keyboards.html


----------



## lattyware

So, I'm considering a mechanical keyboard. I like the idea of a clicky board, and have started using a dvorak layout, so ideally that layout or blank. I also type alot as a programmer, so I was thinking cherry blues?

This said, I don't want to spend Â£100, and need it in the UK. Any ideas?


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lattyware* 
So, I'm considering a mechanical keyboard. I like the idea of a clicky board, and have started using a dvorak layout, so ideally that layout or blank. I also type alot as a programmer, so I was thinking cherry blues?

This said, I don't want to spend Â£100, and need it in the UK. Any ideas?

Here maybe?
http://www.keyboardco.com/


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lattyware* 
So, I'm considering a mechanical keyboard. I like the idea of a clicky board, and have started using a dvorak layout, so ideally that layout or blank. I also type alot as a programmer, so I was thinking cherry blues?

This said, I don't want to spend Â£100, and need it in the UK. Any ideas?

I agree with you that a keyboard with the Cherry MX Blues might be one of the better choices.

I also agree with using http://www.keyboardco.com/!


----------



## lattyware

Hrm, looking on that site, they do this:
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=667
Which is blank, with Cherry MX Blacks Â£70
and this:
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=510
Which is not blank, with blues. Same price.

Still a bit more than I'd want to spend, but so it goes, what really bugs me is I can't get it blank with the right switches...


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lattyware* 
So, I'm considering a mechanical keyboard. I like the idea of a clicky board, and have started using a dvorak layout, so ideally that layout or blank. I also type alot as a programmer, so I was thinking cherry blues?

This said, I don't want to spend Â£100, and need it in the UK. Any ideas?

Your cheapest option is the iOne Scorpius M10 but it's not a great mechanical keyboard.
Review of the Scorpius M10

You could also get a Cherry MX Black or Blue , Filco Tactile Click or Das Professional

It's a little hard to find Mechanical Keyboards in the UK for a good price.

If you go used on Ebay; it's not a whole lot. But shipping is kinda killer (since it would come from Canada.)
But there's a Fujitsu board for cheap.
I don't know what the switches are; it just says Metal Spring + Rubber Membrane. Which would normally mean Topre, but I don't think Topre switches are as old as this keyboard?

There's also a Cherry MX Brown keyboard for sale as well; but again shipping from the US so that's a bit of a kick in the pants for cost. It's the MX8100 which I think Phaedrus here had/has.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lattyware* 
Hrm, looking on that site, they do this:
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=667
Which is blank, with Cherry MX Blacks Â£70
and this:
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=510
Which is not blank, with blues. Same price.

Still a bit more than I'd want to spend, but so it goes, what really bugs me is I can't get it blank with the right switches...

You can always just move the keys around so they are in the dvorak layout. I'd grab the blues if that is the switch you really want, because there is no point in compromising when you have an easy solution otherwise.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
You can always just move the keys around so they are in the dvorak layout. I'd grab the blues if that is the switch you really want, because there is no point in compromising when you have an easy solution otherwise.

But doing that would change the way it feels since most of these keyboards use that Sculpted style.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But doing that would change the way it feels since most of these keyboards use that Sculpted style.









you sure? The lettered one looks like that, but the blank one looks normal. I chalked it up to the terrible lighting, but I don't know that board personally so. . . lol

We all know this is the board he really wants







lol


----------



## lattyware

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
You can always just move the keys around so they are in the dvorak layout. I'd grab the blues if that is the switch you really want, because there is no point in compromising when you have an easy solution otherwise.

It's not necisarily so that all the keys are the same shape, which is the problem, but yes, I'd definitely go for the right switches over blank, just annoys me I can't have both.

Edit: I'm currently using a Cherry Cymotion Linux, which is a rubber-dome board I got free with a Linux Format subscription (has a tux key instead of a windows key). I'm presuming this'd be a worthwhile upgrade?

Interestingly, it still has 'The Microsoft Windows symbol is a trademark of the microsoft corporation." stamped on the bottom, despite having a tux key. (I presume they just swap over the key for the different model).


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
you sure? The lettered one looks like that, but the blank one looks normal. I chalked it up to the terrible lighting, but I don't know that board personally so. . . lol

Unfortunately, I am not sure either. But if I were judge it based on that picture alone, then I would only end up being about 75% sure.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lattyware* 
It's not necisarily so that all the keys are the same shape, which is the problem, but yes, I'd definitely go for the right switches over blank, just annoys me I can't have both.

Edit: I'm currently using a Cherry Cymotion Linux, which is a rubber-dome board I got free with a Linux Format subscription (has a tux key instead of a windows key). I'm presuming this'd be a worthwhile upgrade?

Very much so!


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The fun about mechanical keyboard collecting: buying a keyboard on ebay for cheap and waiting for it to arrive wondering if it'll be worth $400 or $40.


----------



## lattyware

I emailed the Keyboardco last night, and got a response this morning:

Quote:



Thanks for your email.

We just have to take what we can get from Cherry.They never made one blank with Blues in 105.
We could do a key swap for you though. I'd have to charge labour but that would give us what you want.
It would be an extra Â£15 though.


Really excellent, fast response, and giving me the offer of the key swap. It's even more money, but I think it's probably worth it to get what I really want.

Only problem is it comes to Â£85 total >.> More than I really wanted to spend, but so it goes.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

_That's_ service; not having the configuration you want so they offer to do it by hand? Granted it would be more impressive if they did it for free, but I wouldn't expect that of anyone in this economy.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lattyware*


I emailed the Keyboardco last night, and got a response this morning:

Really excellent, fast response, and giving me the offer of the key swap. It's even more money, but I think it's probably worth it to get what I really want.

Only problem is it comes to Â£85 total >.> More than I really wanted to spend, but so it goes.


keyboardco has a sub-forum under the vendors section on geekhack. I think the owner is there a lot.


----------



## Jalal

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/ogOhm7oPgwA/
A new mechanical keyboard from Razer?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
_That's_ service; not having the configuration you want so they offer to do it by hand? Granted it would be more impressive if they did it for free, but I wouldn't expect that of anyone in this economy.

They're doing it for less then buying a blank keyset and doing it yourself. That's pretty cool.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lattyware* 
Really excellent, fast response, and giving me the offer of the key swap. It's even more money, but I think it's probably worth it to get what I really want.

Only problem is it comes to Â£85 total >.> More than I really wanted to spend, but so it goes.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
They're doing it for less then buying a blank keyset and doing it yourself. That's pretty cool.

What Crazy says is how I feel; you'd end up paying more in the end. So I'd just bite the bullet and let Keyboard Co do it for you. You'll get a nice job done and what you really want.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jalal* 
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/ogOhm7oPgwA/
A new mechanical keyboard from Razer?

Are you just going by the click-clack sound it makes (IE: like a blue bottoming out.)


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jalal* 
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/ogOhm7oPgwA/
A new mechanical keyboard from Razer?

Interesting. Backlit, MX blues (maybe XM Alps copies), and a few macro keys. I'm interested.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Whatever switch it is, it looks we will have more detail at that gamescom thing on Wednesday.
http://www2.razerzone.com/gamescom2010/newbyrazer/

Inc. 250$ razer price tag?


----------



## lmnop

iOne really started something with that Tron font. Spacebar isn't illuminated.


----------



## Manyak

It's about time! Market pressure is finally big enough to get one of the big guys to make a mechanical board









It won't be too long until Logitech and MS follow suit









Let's just hope for <$200 price tags, lol


----------



## Tator Tot

Honestly; if I could get a board with the Feature Set of the Sidewinder x4 but with some Cherry MX-Clear/White switches I'd just be in heaven. Blacks or Browns would be good too though.
But USB with that 26 Key Roll Over (or Anti-Ghosting as they say) and the additional Macro Keys would be very nice.
Swappable num-pad is so-so in my book. Removable in the end though is nice because you can make the board smaller if you want/need.


----------



## lmnop

I could careless about the keyboard. if this is true I am in awe. Razer is a company that has the market, finances and influence to resurrect mechanical keyboards on the retail market permanently.


----------



## Tator Tot

That's a very true statement.

They've probably considered that; and also considered how they'd ahve to market against Logitech.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Honestly; if I could get a board with the Feature Set of the Sidewinder x4 but with some Cherry MX-Clear/White switches I'd just be in heaven. Blacks or Browns would be good too though.
But USB with that 26 Key Roll Over (or Anti-Ghosting as they say) and the additional Macro Keys would be very nice.
Swappable num-pad is so-so in my book. Removable in the end though is nice because you can make the board smaller if you want/need.

The x6 has the removable numpad.
And the 26 key thing with the x4 is just marketing. It supports 6 key strokes at the same time (+ maybe a few modifiers ).

I would love space saving. But the only mechanical sold in finland seems to be SS 6Gv2. Weird. Maybe manufacturers just don't want to make KB's with the layout.

My 6Gv2 is arriving in the next few days if everything goes well.. I ordered some other products as well with it so it might take a little longer too. I want it now!







. But it might take over a week.


----------



## lmnop

everyone is going to want one. Logitech and Microsoft will probably add one to their G and Sidewinder series then people will be able to answer the question "what makes a gaming keyboard?" a mechanical one.

too much fairy dust this morning


----------



## fssbzz

hey is the mx red switches the most expensive cherry mx switches in the market?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
hey is the mx red switches the most expensive cherry mx switches in the market?

you can't order them so there is no way to know how much they cost. you can purchase a Cherry G80-3494 off eBay for $172. the shipping is ridiculous but it's cheaper than using a service like obook.


----------



## lattyware

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
What Crazy says is how I feel; you'd end up paying more in the end. So I'd just bite the bullet and let Keyboard Co do it for you. You'll get a nice job done and what you really want.

Definitely. I've contacted them to say I'll buy, and they are saying they'll sort out the order Monday.

Good stuff







Looking forward to it.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lattyware* 
Definitely. I've contacted them to say I'll buy, and they are saying they'll sort out the order Monday.

Good stuff







Looking forward to it.
















Grats man


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
you can't order them so there is no way to know how much they cost. you can purchase a Cherry G80-3494 off eBay for $172. the shipping is ridiculous but it's cheaper than using a service like obook.

i was thinking to order one tru taobao.com
for $825($121 USD without shipping or anything) yuan rmp
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=3905396245
so if i use obook it will be cheaper?


----------



## Kamakazi

With the Razer keyboard, it may be Mechanical but I am wondering what the rest of the quality will be like. It could end up being just a switch plate strapped to a Lycosa body.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
i was thinking to order one tru taobao.com
for $825($121 USD without shipping or anything) yuan rmp
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=3905396245
so if i use obook it will be cheaper?

e-mail obook and ask but I doubt it. obook takes a commission.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kamakazi* 
With the Razer keyboard, it may be Mechanical but I am wondering what the rest of the quality will be like. It could end up being just a switch plate strapped to a Lycosa body.

iOne Scorpius M10BL









Razer

















same L-Windows Key that the Adesso and iOne models have, same Media Keys as the iOne Scorpius M10BL, same Tron font as the iOne Scorpius M10BL.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
e-mail obook and ask but I doubt it. obook takes a commission.

iOne Scorpius M10BL
snip

Razer
snip

same L-Windows Key that the Adesso and iOne models have, same Media Keys as the iOne Scorpius M10BL, same Tron font as the iOne Scorpius M10BL.

Ah, okay. Or that.


----------



## lmnop

sorry if that doesn't answer your question I don't know the name of the OEM. iOne Scorpius M10 is decent. M10BL is being launched on the Taiwan market this year. the keycaps on the Adesso MKB-135B wobble so much you can make them crooked. I guess you will have to wait for Phaedrus review of the U9BL.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

It's made by iOne, but the build quality is much better than anything else out of iOne I've seen. In particular the PCB is very clean, not a cold joint in sight and no left over flux, except a few traces around the SMD work.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

A look at the soldering:


----------



## KipH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


sorry if that doesn't answer your question I don't know the name of the OEM. iOne Scorpius M10 is decent. *M10BL is being launched on the Taiwan market this year.* the keycaps on the Adesso MKB-135B wobble so much you can make them crooked. I guess you will have to wait for Phaedrus review of the U9BL.


I'll get right on that







A trip to the computer market I see in my future!

About the MS X4. I have given them troubles before, due to muddying the waters about the terminology. But they did do something new. They really have more than 6 key presses at the same time over USB. How well it works and how good the rest is is open for debate.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


It's made by iOne, but the build quality is much better than anything else out of iOne I've seen. In particular the PCB is very clean, not a cold joint in sight and no left over flux, except a few traces around the SMD work.


did u done the Xarmor review







? im so excited to read.


----------



## Tator Tot

What Phaedrus is saying is the Solder's from the Delta PSU Factory work at iOne during the night soldering switches to keyboards instead of caps to PSUs


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
What Phaedrus is saying is the Solder's from the Delta PSU Factory work at iOne during the night soldering switches to keyboards instead of caps to PSUs

You mean 7 year olds from Cambodia?

Just kidding. I hope.


----------



## Tator Tot

Actually Delta hires Adrian Monk to do it's soldering job.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


did u done the Xarmor review







? im so excited to read.


Going up tomorrow morning assuming nothing comes up.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


*Laser Etching*
Laser etched keys are...well...the name says it all. They feel a bit scratchy. The process works best on light colored keys because the letter _always_ comes out black, since that's the color of burnt plastic. So when it's used on black keys, a paint filler is poured into it, as is done with the Das S.

...

Pros:
Doesn't wear out easily
Cons:
You can feel the lettering
Blurry


If you use laser engraving for printing white on black, wouldn't the white ink wear off eventually?

Quote:



*Dye Sublimation*
Dye Sublimation produces much nicer keys than either of the other two printing methods. A dye is set into the plastic, and seeps a tiny bit into it. So even as the plastic starts to wear off from use, the letter remains as good as new. Unfortunately, because of its cost, the only companies left that use it are Topre, Cherry Corp, and Unicomp.

...

Pros:
Doesn't wear out
Can't feel the lettering
Can print multiple colors on a single key
Can be used on any face of the key
High Visibility
Cons:
High Cost


It might be worth noting here that the main disadvantage with dye sublimation is that it can only be used to print a colour that is darker than the plastic to which it is being applied, this means that

A) You're limited by what colours you can print if the keycap is not white 
B) You can't use it for printing on to black keycaps (because nothing is darker than black) *
C) You can't use it for printing white characters (because nothing is brighter than white)

* Before anyone says it, black Topre keycaps are not really black, they're a sort of dark grey-blue colour, a bit like old Dell computers


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


If you use laser engraving for printing white on black, wouldn't the white ink wear off eventually?

It might be worth noting here that the main disadvantage with dye sublimation is that it can only be used to print a colour that is darker than the plastic to which it is being applied, this means that

A) You're limited by what colours you can print if the keycap is not white 
B) You can't use it for printing on to black keycaps (because nothing is darker than black) *
C) You can't use it for printing white characters (because nothing is brighter than white)

* Before anyone says it, black Topre keycaps are not really black, they're a sort of dark grey-blue colour, a bit like old Dell computers


1 - Well think about what the structure would be like for a second. When you laser etch a key, it burns a ditch into the plastic. Kind of like a small canal. When the paint is poured in there, it ends up going about as deep as a good dyesub. The very surface of the paint might wear out quickly, but because of how deep it is and the fact that there's still plastic around it that wears out very slowly, most of the time your fingers won't even be touching the paint. Plus, I'm sure they use some sort of paint that's got better wear resistance than standard spray paint and stuff like that. So yeah, EVENTUALLY it can wear out, but it'll take a very, very, very long time. Just like dyesub









2 - Yeah, I probably should mention that.


----------



## ch_123

Well, dye sub is different because it actually gets inside the plastic and stains it, so you'd need to wear down the plastic itself as opposed to just a layer of paint, but point taken.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Well, dye sub is different because it actually gets inside the plastic and stains it, so you'd need to wear down the plastic itself as opposed to just a layer of paint, but point taken.

Well yeah dyesub is still better (and looks better too). But just saying


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
If you use laser engraving for printing white on black, wouldn't the white ink wear off eventually?

It might be worth noting here that the main disadvantage with dye sublimation is that it can only be used to print a colour that is darker than the plastic to which it is being applied, this means that

A) You're limited by what colours you can print if the keycap is not white
B) You can't use it for printing on to black keycaps (because nothing is darker than black) *
C) You can't use it for printing white characters (because nothing is brighter than white)

* Before anyone says it, black Topre keycaps are not really black, they're a sort of dark grey-blue colour, a bit like old Dell computers

the colour you are looking for is charcoal. charcoal on black.

what about Deck keycaps? Adam at Deck said they were double shot and sublimated. ripster is convinced they are 2 piece.

I wonder if he means like this.










this is my theory


----------



## Manyak

Pic #1 is how it's done.


----------



## ch_123

I was going to say "Charcoal", but I thought it would sound pretentious.


----------



## ripster

I was going to say I'm always right and lmnop is generally wrong but that sounded pretentious.


----------



## W4LNUT5




----------



## Phaedrus2129

My U9BL review is up:
http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...bl-review.html


----------



## airplaneman

The lettering is wearing off my Das Model S Silent already, and I've only had the board for about a month now. What do?

It's most noticeable on the 'A','S','N' and 'M' keys...


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *airplaneman*


The lettering is wearing off my Das Model S Silent already, and I've only had the board for about a month now. What do?

It's most noticeable on the 'A','S','N' and 'M' keys...


Oh great, maybe their paint filler just sucks?


----------



## geoxile

Quote:



Originally Posted by *airplaneman*


The lettering is wearing off my Das Model S Silent already, and I've only had the board for about a month now. What do?

It's most noticeable on the 'A','S','N' and 'M' keys...


http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/keyboards-mice/d77d/

Get these


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *airplaneman* 
The lettering is wearing off my Das Model S Silent already, and I've only had the board for about a month now. What do?

It's most noticeable on the 'A','S','N' and 'M' keys...

Stop sweating so much.









Seriously: I recommend finding a way to get a fan gently blowing on you just to keep the air moving (heat/moisture dissipation).


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *airplaneman* 
The lettering is wearing off my Das Model S Silent already, and I've only had the board for about a month now. What do?

It's most noticeable on the 'A','S','N' and 'M' keys...

I'd contact their support about that. Way too soon for the lettering to be coming off.


----------



## airplaneman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *geoxile*


http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/keyboards-mice/d77d/

Get these


Oh hell no, lol. I hate those (no offense to anyone using them) but I think they look so bad, and this keyboard is too beautiful for that.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Stop sweating so much.









Seriously: I recommend finding a way to get a fan gently blowing on you just to keep the air moving (heat/moisture dissipation).


Is that really the cause? I'm usually sweating a little bit while at my computer because it generates so much heat and my AC sucks (28c ambients FTL!).

Is there any sort of warranty for this?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *airplaneman*


Oh hell no, lol. I hate those (no offense to anyone using them) but I think they look so bad, and this keyboard is too beautiful for that.

Is that really the cause? I'm usually sweating a little bit while at my computer because it generates so much heat and my AC sucks (28c ambients FTL!).

Is there any sort of warranty for this?


I think that it's likely since there's salt in human sweat (as well as other things that can cause certain finishes to wear over time).

Another possibility may be that you might have to get a little OCD and start washing your hands more often than you already do. It can sometimes be a tricky balance between keeping your hands clean enough so that they stay dry and dealing with a fan gently blowing on you causing you to feel cold after a half an hour to an hour.

But it's well worth it. I may have to take a few pics of my 5-month old Majestouch.


----------



## airplaneman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I think that it's likely since there's salt in human sweat (as well as other things that can cause certain finishes to wear over time).

Another possibility may be that you might have to get a little OCD and start washing your hands more often than you already do. It can sometimes be a tricky balance between keeping your hands clean enough so that they stay dry and dealing with a fan gently blowing on you causing you to feel cold after a half an hour to an hour.

But it's well worth it. I may have to take a few pics of my 5-month old Majestouch.










Please do







. I'd like to see how that one lasts compared to this, as that was my alternative but I went with the Das since IMO it looks better.

I already have started washing my hands more..this is the most I've spent on a keyboard so I wanted to keep it super clean, so I wash my hands almost every time I go to use it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *airplaneman*


Please do







. I'd like to see how that one lasts compared to this, as that was my alternative but I went with the Das since IMO it looks better.

I already have started washing my hands more..this is the most I've spent on a keyboard so I wanted to keep it super clean, so I wash my hands almost every time I go to use it.


My Majestouch has _significantly_ less wear at 5 months than most people get. I think it's because I use a very light touch when I type and also because I never let myself use my keyboard if my finger tips are sweating (even if they're just _slightly_ moist). I mean, if I'm just sitting here typing along and then suddenly find my finger tips feeling kinda moist, then I will stop and either turn the fan on, or go wash my hands with either soap and water, or just plain water (depending on when I last washed them with soap).

So mine is not a goo representation of how long the coating and the print lasts for most people. I mean, I'm extremely anal about the cleanliness of my Majestouch.


----------



## airplaneman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


My Majestouch has _significantly_ less wear at 5 months than most people get. I think it's because I use a very light touch when I type and also because I never let myself use my keyboard if my finger tips are sweating (even if they're just _slightly_ moist). I mean, if I'm just sitting here typing along and then suddenly find my finger tips feeling kinda moist, then I will stop and either turn the fan on, or go wash my hands with either soap and water, or just plain water (depending on when I last washed them with soap).

So mine is not a goo representation of how long the coating and the print lasts for most people. I mean, I'm extremely anal about the cleanliness of my Majestouch.










I might have to do that with my Das if they send/sell me some new keycaps.. I really hope they do. I just contacted their support, I'll post in here when I get there reply.

I used to not care until this board came along. Now there is no eating at the computer, no drinks near the keyboard and hands must be washed before anyone uses it.


----------



## De-Zant

My 6Gv2 is taking an eternity to arrive. It could've been here already but I went and ordered some mouse pads with it. It's been a week. And the mouse pads haven't even arrived at the store yet. If I hadn't ordered them, the KB would already be here.










Somehow I think it's gonna take fore'er.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *airplaneman* 
I might have to do that with my Das if they send/sell me some new keycaps.. I really hope they do. I just contacted their support, I'll post in here when I get there reply.

I used to not care until this board came along. Now there is no eating at the computer, no drinks near the keyboard and hands must be washed before anyone uses it.

hehe it's true love.


----------



## airplaneman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
hehe it's true love.









Indeed it is...I think my girlfriend might be getting jealous.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *airplaneman* 
Indeed it is...I think my girlfriend might be getting jealous.









Ooo, that's perfect!


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
hey is the mx red switches the most expensive cherry mx switches in the market?

The Cherry MX red switch per se is not more expensive than the rest but the keyboards featuring this switch may be more expensive because of the economies of scale.


----------



## ch_123

Having "been there, done that" with most of the different mechanical keyboard types available on the US/European market, I'm setting my sights further afield for my planned next purchase -










Uses Alps Plate-Spring switches, which are unique to keyboards made for IBM Japan.


----------



## ricklen

hey,

I've got my steelseries 6gv2 for about 4 days and I love it. But the "X" button is allready a bit dirty (its not clear white). I have started washing my hands before gaming but does anyone know how to clean it? I haven't used alcohol yet because I'am afraid it will damage the paint or should I just use it?



Edit: as you can see it's not white anymore.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ricklen* 
hey,

I've got my steelseries 6gv2 for about 4 days and I love it. But the "X" button is allready a bit dirty (its not clear white). I have started washing my hands before gaming but does anyone know how to clean it? I haven't used alcohol yet because I'am afraid it will damage the paint or should I just use it?



Edit: as you can see it's not white anymore.

Ouch... My 6Gv2 should be arriving soon. Any other keys like that? It looks like it has been used 6-12 months.


----------



## ricklen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *De-Zant* 
Ouch... My 6Gv2 should be arriving soon. Any other keys like that? It looks like it has been used 6-12 months.

well the dust gets between grooves of the paint if you know what I mean and it should be easy to get off but I haven't use alcohol yet. Iam not sure if it's safe to use.

Edit: btw its my only key because I used it for my microphone to talk on steam, but its kinda weird because I've used the "E" key a lot more. (starcraft 2)


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ricklen* 
well the dust gets between grooves of the paint if you know what I mean and it should be easy to get off but I haven't use alcohol yet. Iam not sure if it's safe to use.

Well... How do you like it otherwise? My 6Gv2 is taking soooo long to arrive.


----------



## ricklen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *De-Zant* 
Well... How do you like it otherwise? My 6Gv2 is taking soooo long to arrive.

If it arives you will be able to feel the paint and dust gets easy between the grooves maybe I can do something about it otherwise I will mail steelseries maybe something wrong with just my keyboard.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ricklen* 
If it arives you will be able to feel the paint and dust gets easy between the grooves maybe I can do something about it otherwise I will mail steelseries maybe something wrong with just my keyboard.

It seems to be the only mechanical with the finnish layout. So I have no choice.
However, I was my hands every time go to my computer, so... Yeah...


----------



## ricklen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ricklen* 
hey,

I've got my steelseries 6gv2 for about 4 days and I love it. But the "X" button is allready a bit dirty (its not clear white). I have started washing my hands before gaming but does anyone know how to clean it? I haven't used alcohol yet because I'am afraid it will damage the paint or should I just use it?



Edit: as you can see it's not white anymore.

but does anyone know if I can use alcohol to clean my keys or will it damage the paint?


----------



## Wretch

I'd try ammonia before alcohol just in case.

Windex or some other type glass/general cleaner


----------



## lattyware

Got invoiced for my board today, can't wait









G80-3000 here I come!


----------



## W4LNUT5

Just try cleaning it up with water and a cotton swab or something. If it still doesn't come out, then bust out the rubbing alcohol. Should be safe, I had a boss who was OCD about germs, and he used to use Alcohol on his keyboard all the time. I would recommend doing a small test on a key you don't touch often just to be safe (like Scroll Lock or something)


----------



## Aeloi

I bought a Acer 6311-KW for $2 locally, how did I score?

I had to use an AT to PS/2 adapter. I'm used to a rubber membrane, but I've typed on a mechanical keyboard before so the change wasn't bad. The keyboard is pretty loud, however, I'm not sure which switches I have?


----------



## Tator Tot

Those look like Black Alp switches from memory. For $2 I think you did pretty damn well.


----------



## godofdeath

here are my ocn key on my DAS
size wise sort of same
height lower due to filing on my end


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
here are my ocn key on my DAS
size wise sort of same
height lower due to filing on my end

Oh nice to see that those keycaps work on the Das. May have to reconsider getting on for myself too now









Then again I wish I could replaces my WASD keys with a different color. :\\


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Oh nice to see that those keycaps work on the Das. May have to reconsider getting on for myself too now









Then again I wish I could replaces my WASD keys with a different color. :\\

i put in an order from elitekeyboards for their purpley ones and the key puller

still haven't gotten it to try it out


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
i put in an order from elitekeyboards for their purpley ones and the key puller

still haven't gotten it to try it out

Let me know how it goes please!


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Let me know how it goes please!









yea i also did a review on pimpmykeyboard keys
check sig link


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Oh nice to see that those keycaps work on the Das. May have to reconsider getting on for myself too now










The keycaps work on ANY board with cherry switches.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Aeloi* 
I bought a Acer 6311-KW for $2 locally, how did I score?

I had to use an AT to PS/2 adapter. I'm used to a rubber membrane, but I've typed on a mechanical keyboard before so the change wasn't bad. The keyboard is pretty loud, however, I'm not sure which switches I have?










Those are Acer's own brand of switch.

Link


----------



## lmnop

the Razer mechanical keyboard is called Blackwidow.

http://store.razerzone.com/store/raz...ctID.211325600


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
the Razer mechanical keyboard is called Blackwidow.

http://store.razerzone.com/store/raz...ctID.211325600

$130 and backlighting huh. . . I wonder what the build quality is like. Or even what switches are in it. I didn't see it on the site. It could be just what the doctor ordered to bring the razer and logitech fanboi's into the light of mechanicals.

Edit: Damn, the thing actually has USB's, Mic + Phones, and Macro+Media keys. Fully loaded mech for a cheap price. But I still wonder if the build quality has suffered being so cheap.

Sounds like they went with MX Blues







(50g actuation force)


----------



## ljason8eg

They're not MX Blues. Says 1.5mm of travel. Looks like no PS/2 so no NKRO either.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ljason8eg* 
They're not MX Blues. Says 1.5mm of travel. Looks like no PS/2 so no NKRO either.

yep, it's USB, and no NKRO. It says they arranged the matrix so WASD won't clog though.


----------



## lmnop

if the Razer Blackwidow is not using Cherry MX switches how do you mount a LED using Alps or Cherry ML.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
if the Razer Blackwidow is not using Cherry MX switches how do you mount a LED using Alps or Cherry ML.


Quote:

With its optimized actuation force of 50g and a *reduced travel distance of 1.5 mm* the Razer BlackWidowâ€™s keys allow you to actuate your commands faster than on any other standard gaming keyboard.
What Cherry MX switch has a travel distance of 1.5mm though?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ljason8eg* 
What Cherry MX switch has a travel distance of 1.5mm though?

It sounds like they're talking about distance to actuation, but random google search gives 2mm for most cherry mx switches.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ljason8eg*


What Cherry MX switch has a travel distance of 1.5mm though?


It's Razer, so they're either not understanding correctly or they're trying to increase the chances of selling this keyboard. Here's the graph of the Cherry MX Blue taken from the OP of this thread:










A picture is worth a thousand words. Here we see the reset point at 1.5mm, but an actuation force of 50g. But now which would sell better to a gamer: 1.5mm key travel distance, or 2mm? Razer enjoys using words that look good, such as "anti-ghosting", and "1.5 mm" looks much better than "2 mm".

Plus, that video that was posted earlier sounds exactly like the MX Blues. On top of that, Christine discovered that this is just that iOne board with a different body, and that iOne board has the Cherry MX Blues.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
It's Razer, so they're either not understanding correctly or they're trying to increase the chances of selling this keyboard. Here's the graph of the Cherry MX Blue taken from the OP of this thread:

A picture is worth a thousand words. Here we see the reset point at 1.5mm, but an actuation force of 50g. But now which would sell better to a gamer: 1.5mm key travel distance, or 2mm? Razer enjoys using words that look good, such as "anti-ghosting", and "1.5 mm" looks much better than "2 mm".

Plus, that video that was posted earlier sounds exactly like the MX Blues. On top of that, Christine discovered that this is just that iOne board with a different body, and that iOne board has the Cherry MX Blues.

Legally, they can't put 1.5mm if it's 2. That's false advertising.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Legally, they can't put 1.5mm if it's 2. That's false advertising.


So is using the term "anti-ghosting". After all, that refers to the key rollover. So Razer might be being being sneaky because "1.5 mm" is technically a part of the key travel spec.


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Legally, they can't put 1.5mm if it's 2. That's false advertising.


Razers own switch? Or could that be to clever for Razer?

When was that Keyboard released, if I may ask?


----------



## lmnop

I thought they were Cherry ML switches when I first read it.

Cherry ML switches have a 3mm travel distance, 1.5mm actuation. tactile, non-clicky.










according to this site the actuation force is 52g.

however according to Cherry they can only be PCB mounted and the Blackwidow weighs 3.3lbs.

there are keyboards that use standard size keycaps with Cherry ML switches


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


So is using the term "anti-ghosting". After all, that refers to the key rollover. So Razer might be being being sneaky because "1.5 mm" is technically a part of the key travel spec.


Technically, the term "anti-ghosting" has been re-purposed to mean the keys don't lock up now. Several other large companies have thrown that term around in that meaning, so they will be in the clear. You are right that they could be playing with the graph to make it come out to 1.5 though.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


Razers own switch? Or could that be to clever for Razer?

When was that Keyboard released, if I may ask?


While Razer might be big enough to make their own switch, I doubt they would, especially on their first try at a mechanical keyboard. It would just be way too much R&D for a market that has not yet been proven to be successful for the mainstream gamer. It could be something to look for in the future if this keyboard does really well I suppose, most likely it would be to make a cheaper switch to bring the price down to $100. $100 seems to be what most people want to pay for a "high end" gaming peripheral.


----------



## lmnop

this is the first mechanical keyboard with all the trimmings. the Gigabyte GK-K8000 wasn't illuminated and the iOne XArmor U9BL, Scorpius M10BL doesn't have macros. $129 the Blackwidow is going to maul everything in it's path.


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Technically, the term "anti-ghosting" has been re-purposed to mean the keys don't lock up now. Several other large companies have thrown that term around in that meaning, so they will be in the clear. You are right that they could be playing with the graph to make it come out to 1.5 though.

While Razer might be big enough to make their own switch, I doubt they would, especially on their first try at a mechanical keyboard. *It would just be way too much R&D for a market that has not yet been proven to be successful for the mainstream gamer.* It could be something to look for in the future if this keyboard does really well I suppose, most likely it would be to make a cheaper switch to bring the price down to $100. $100 seems to be what most people want to pay for a "high end" gaming peripheral.

Never thought of it like that, it would be neat if they had though.

If logitech made a mechanical Keyboard it would hit the market as the next "Evolution in Keystrokes!" and it would go for $300 shipped.

But you are right the mechnical Keyboard is really only for a more "Informed" crowed, and as an outsider myself I find it hard to put that much down for a keyboard that I KNOW I will like, I just don't know how much I will like it over my current Scissors.

I wanted to buy a broken or just a really old one which had been replaced a while back just to get an idea for what I was getting myself into, but the things is these don't break generally nor do people replace them all to often especially when they get used to a certain switch.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I thought they were Cherry ML switches when I first read it.

Cherry ML switches have a 3mm travel distance, 1.5mm actuation. tactile, non-clicky.










according to this site the actuation force is 52g.

however according to Cherry they can only be PCB mounted and the Blackwidow weighs 3.3lbs.

there are keyboards that use standard size keycaps with Cherry ML switches


Heh, only Razer would do this.









But hey, I guess it's a start.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Technically, the term "anti-ghosting" has been re-purposed to mean the keys don't lock up now.


I know (I thought you knew that I know - my bad). But I will never go along with it and/or accept it - ever. To me, "Anti-Ghosting" will _never_ make sense to describe better key rollover, or full N-Key Rollover. The reason is because the whole reason why it was called "ghosting" in the first place is because of the very thing that happens: 2 keys are pressed, and a third character appears out of nowhere just like ghosts in real life.

So they can try to make it make sense all they want, but it never will. It doesn't describe key rollover problems at all. I mean, how can it be called "ghosting" when I can't exceed X amount of simultaneous keypresses? What, do the unregistered keypresses become ghosts because I'm pressing them and nothing is happening? Good grief!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Several other large companies have thrown that term around in that meaning, so they will be in the clear.


I know this (but I guess I haven't made it obvious yet), except I hate it.

Ok, so let's say that Razer releases a mechanical keyboard using the Cherry MX Blacks and calls it a "clicky" keyboard. Would it then be ok if all non-clicky keyboards started being called "clicky" just because the big companies are changing the meaning?

I refuse to sit here and do nothing about these big companies changing the terminology when there's no good reason to change it (including Microsoft now).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


You are right that they could be playing with the graph to make it come out to 1.5 though.


It definitely wouldn't be the first time I've seen companies like Razer advertise in this manner. They can get away with it because it is technically a part of the key travel spec. And y'know what? Thanks to companies like Razer, we may one day find other companies selling Cherry MX Blue boards and saying that it has a 1.5 mm key travel. I bet that would make other mechanical keyboard enthusiasts feel the same way about that as I do about this NKRO/Anti-Ghosting stuff!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


While Razer might be big enough to make their own switch, I doubt they would, especially on their first try at a mechanical keyboard. It would just be way too much R&D for a market that has not yet been proven to be successful for the mainstream gamer. It could be something to look for in the future if this keyboard does really well I suppose, most likely it would be to make a cheaper switch to bring the price down to $100. $100 seems to be what most people want to pay for a "high end" gaming peripheral.


I guess we can only hope that big companies like Razer and Logitech don't start making cheap mechanical keyboards. I mean, they'll leave a bad taste in people's mouths and then it'll be even harder to convince people to pamper their fingers with a good mechanical keyboard. I mean, we could show them the best mechanical keyboard available, and they would _still_ probably say, _"No, I tried the mechanical keyboard by Razer and it sucked. So, no thanks: rubber domes are still superior"._

But, I guess my glass is half empty today.


----------



## WTHbot

Wait this is razer right? So this is shipping to my local Best Buy? If it is okay atleast, and I'll wait for one of yoou guys to tell me if it is, then I'll try it. Otherwise I wont touch this keyboard if its gonna "Leave a bad taste in my mouth."


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WTHbot* 
Wait this is razer right? So this is shipping to my local Best Buy? If it is okay atleast, and I'll wait for one of yoou guys to tell me if it is, then I'll try it. Otherwise I wont touch this keyboard if its gonna "Leave a bad taste in my mouth."

Ooo good call!!! Best buy is like a six or seven-minute drive from where I live, so I would be very happy to try one out! I'll even bring my keycap puller and report which key switch it actually has including a mini-review of what I think of it!


----------



## lmnop

not all but majority of people on this forum looking to buy a new keyboard are gamers. why would anyone want to buy a Das Model S or Filco Majestouch anymore? the Razer Blackwidow is only $129 with worldwide availability. I thought it would be $175 at least. the build quality is probably no better or worse than the keyboards previously mentioned. I don't think people are going to pay more for full rollover instead they will pay less for more.

to quote Herc from The Wire "It's like one of those nature shows. You mess with the environment, some species get ****ed out of their habitat."


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Ooo good call!!! Best buy is like a six or seven-minute drive from where I live, so I would be very happy to try one out! I'll even bring my keycap puller and report which key switch it actually has including a mini-review of what I think of it!

Add in a mic or Camera+ mic and you'd be golden.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


Add in a mic or Camera+ mic and you'd be golden.


Not at _this_ best buy. I'm even taking a risk by planning to bring my keycap puller. But, I really want to see those stems! So I am going to have to be very quick about it. I get the feeling when I walk in there that they keep a very close eye on the customers and don't trust _any_ of them. I mean, I get the feeling that if I were to get caught pulling one of the keycaps off, they'd force me to buy it and then tell me that I am not allowed to come back ever again.


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Not at _this_ best buy. I'm even taking a risk by planning to bring my keycap puller. But, I really want to see those stems! So I am going to have to be very quick about it. I get the feeling when I walk in there that they keep a very close eye on the customers and don't trust _any_ of them. I mean, I get the feeling that if I were to get caught pulling one of the keycaps off, they'd force me to buy it and then tell me that I am not allowed to come back ever again.

If they do, send it to me. I'll pay shipping, and send you the money to make up for what you paid for it after.

I don't have $130 to spend right now considering I'm buying an Antec TPN 750w psu today for $65!


----------



## lmnop

Razer removed it from their online store.


----------



## Mas

I'm getting an error when I try to go to the Razer link for the blackwidow?

Edit: lame, I hope someone managed to get some screenshots/save some pictures or webpages.


----------



## lmnop

they removed it within the last hour. Razer is unveiling it today at Gamescom.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mas*


I'm getting an error when I try to go to the Razer link for the blackwidow?

Edit: lame, I hope someone managed to get some screenshots/save some pictures or webpages.


http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/ogOhm7oPgwA/


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


If they do, send it to me. I'll pay shipping, and send you the money to make up for what you paid for it after.

I don't have $130 to spend right now considering I'm buying an Antec TPN 750w psu today for $65!










Unfortunately, I can't afford to do anything like this.


----------



## lmnop

Edit: see Crazy9000 post below.


----------



## TwoCables

Based on the video, the switches sound clicky.


----------



## lmnop

I am sure we will find out soon enough. I wonder if they plan on releasing 2 models because "Ultimate" sounds like there could be a lesser version.


----------



## Crazy9000

here's the page from the razer store.









(edit) I'll just add the text from the overview section

Quote:

The Razer BlackWidow Ultimate takes you full speed into combat with a full-fledged mechanical key infrastructure delivering crisp, tactile feedback with every actuation. Bringing an entirely different feel and faster keystroke actuation to the table, this revolutionary fully backlit gaming keyboard is rounded off by its additional macro keys and unlimited on-the-fly macro recording.

Full Mechanical Keys for Superior Tactility and Faster Response
The Razer BlackWidow's mechanical key technology provides a distinctive tactile feedback in form of a light pronounced tap to your fingers giving you an entirely new feel on your keyboard. With its optimized actuation force of 50g and a reduced travel distance of 1.5 mm the Razer BlackWidow's keys allow you to actuate your commands faster than on any other standard gaming keyboard.

On-The-Fly Macro Recording & Profiles allow Effortless Configuration
Record unlimited macros on-the-fly without having to take your eye off the game and immediately change between up to 10 profiles without the hassle of going into complex driver menus. With the simple click of two buttons you initiate and end the recording and you're all set.

Individually Backlit Keys
Never miss a key in the dark with backlit keys that give you the tactical edge, allowing you to launch assaults and flank your foes even under low light conditions.


----------



## lmnop

Assaulting and Flanking is the American way


----------



## Crazy9000

Might as well post the gallery too, while I still have the page.


----------



## Manyak

This sucks. Now I have to change my sig :/


----------



## lmnop

Manyak is the 200ms delay when sequencing on the i-Rocks KR-6230 noticeable by the eye?


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


This sucks. Now I have to change my sig :/


Woah woah cowboy, we don't know if it's good yet. It could be worse then say a Deck Legend, and if so then your sig is still true.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


Woah woah cowboy, we don't know if it's good yet. It could be worse then say a Deck Legend, and if so then your sig is still true.


I don't think anybody expects the quality to be better than the Deck Legend.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *WTHbot*


Woah woah cowboy, we don't know if it's good yet. It could be worse then say a Deck Legend, and if so then your sig is still true.


Well I'm positive it won't be as good as a Deck... unless you realllllyyy like having an audio port on your keyboard. The big deal about this keyboard is the fact that it brings all those things that the mainstream wants in a gaming keyboard, and puts them on a mechanical. You have Macro keys, audio ports, and flashy catchphrases that piss TwoCables off like no other.


----------



## WTHbot

I was hoping it was going to have useless integrated speakers and energy drink dispenser. . .


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


This sucks. Now I have to change my sig :/


Nah, I'd keep it that way - even after the possible establishment of this keyboard!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Well I'm positive it won't be as good as a Deck... unless you realllllyyy like having an audio port on your keyboard. The big deal about this keyboard is the fact that it brings all those things that the mainstream wants in a gaming keyboard, and puts them on a mechanical. You have Macro keys, audio ports, and flashy catchphrases that piss TwoCables off like no other.


lol I fart in your general direction!


----------



## godofdeath

hmm so many new mechanical kb now
want to try them ALLLLLLLLLL


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


hmm so many new mechanical kb now
want to try them ALLLLLLLLLL


Win the lotto, give it to me, and I'll give you all the mechanical keyboards you'll ever want in return.


----------



## ch_123

In regards to the Razer keyboard - Assuming that they are not marketing the actuation travel as key travel (which is think is somewhat clever from a marketing perspective if not highly misleading from a technical one) is it possible that they put some sort of clip under the keycap so that it can only travel far enough to actuate?


----------



## Mas

Meh, mirror finish :/


----------



## De-Zant

Looks like a bad time for me to have bought a 6Gv2... Well... Only difference = Backlighting
+ SS has a better build quality I assume.


----------



## Mas

Still rather have a Filco with blue switches


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Win the lotto, give it to me, and I'll give you all the mechanical keyboards you'll ever want in return.


im pretty sure if i do win the lotto, to get all your keyboards it'll costs less than the millions from the lotto


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


Looks like a bad time for me to have bought a 6Gv2... Well... Only difference = Backlighting
+ SS has a better build quality I assume.


It's likely superior since the Steelseries appears to be the CST-104 with a custom wrist rest, while this Razer keyboard might be no better than the iOne Scorpius.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


It's likely superior since the Steelseries appears to be the CST-104 with a custom wrist rest, while this Razer keyboard might be no better than the iOne Scorpius.


The 6Gv2 has no wrist rest? It's a 7G without the wrist wrest and pass through ports.

What are you saying BTW? Just say which you think is better. I'm a noobie on the subject of mech KB's. Saying that this is comparable to this and this to this just confuses me.







I only found the 6Gv2 with the finnish layout. Didn't find any other mechanical keyboards with the finnish layout. But I know that I'll be glad I got one anyway. I kinda had no choice with the 6Gv2. This razer might hit the finnish market though...


----------



## lmnop

steelseries 7G and 6Gv2 are manufactured by Datacomp not Costar.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


The 6Gv2 has no wrist rest? It's a 7G without the wrist wrest and pass through ports.

What are you saying BTW? Just say which you think is better. I'm a noobie on the subject of mech KB's. Saying that this is comparable to this and this to this just confuses me.







I only found the 6Gv2 with the finnish layout. Didn't find any other mechanical keyboards with the finnish layout. But I know that I'll be glad I got one anyway. I kinda had no choice with the 6Gv2. This razer might hit the finnish market though...


I apologize for that. I think I'm practically half asleep here. I mean, I know the differences between the 7G and the 6Gv2 like the back of my hands, but somehow I thought of the 7G instead.









Anyway, to be clearer (my original post is indeed as clear as mud now that I read it again), I think that the new Razer board is going to be an inferior product to both the Steelseries 7G and 6Gv2.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


steelseries 7G and 6Gv2 are manufactured by Datacomp not Costar.


Ok cool. So which would you say might be better quality? The new Razer board, or the Steelseries 6Gv2?


----------



## lmnop

last year I saw a Computex floor plan from a couple years back and under Datacomp it said they were showcasing the steelseries 7G that year. apparently Datacomp also had some involvement in the Filco Bluetooth as well.

there isn't much information on the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate so I would say the steelseries 6Gv2 because it uses good plastics.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


last year I saw a Computex floor plan from a couple years back and under Datacomp it said they were showcasing the steelseries 7G that year. apparently Datacomp also had some involvement in the Filco Bluetooth as well.

there isn't much information on the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate so I would say the steelseries 6Gv2 because it uses good plastics.


Yes... I hate glossy plastic. My Imperator mouse has glossy plastic on the sides. It gets dirty really quick. And I wash my hands every time I go to my computer.


----------



## lmnop

the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate still uses mechanical key switches and 1 LED underneath each key.

so what the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate uses cheap plastics so does Costar and yet I am the only one who complains about it. Razer is going to sell more units in 12 months than Diatec and Metadot ever have. I hope people are going to welcome the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate because Razer could change everything.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate still uses mechanical key switches and 1 LED underneath each key.

so what the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate uses cheap plastics so does Costar and yet I am the only one who complains about it. Razer is going to sell more units in 12 months than Diatec and Metadot ever have. I hope people are going to welcome the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate because Razer could change everything.


Hope they start making gaming keyboards mechanical... :/

If they'd make sidewinder x6 blue and mechanical then it would be the best keyboard ever!

EDIT: And I don't support paying 40€ more than for a SS just because of the backlighting.


----------



## lmnop

page is back up.

http://store.razerzone.com/store/raz...ctID.211324200

there are 2 versions.

Blackwidow ($79.99) white backlighting.
Blackwidow Ultimate ($129.99) blue backlighting.

launches in September.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


page is back up.

http://store.razerzone.com/store/raz...ctID.211324200

there are 2 versions.

Blackwidow ($79.99) white backlighting.
Blackwidow Ultimate ($129.99) blue backlighting.

launches in September.


Any idea how the build quality is on it? How does it compare to deck?


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


page is back up.

http://store.razerzone.com/store/raz...ctID.211324200

there are 2 versions.

Blackwidow ($79.99) white backlighting.
Blackwidow Ultimate ($129.99) blue backlighting.

launches in September.


Although I'm not buying that, it still makes me mad that they price the "blue" version 50€HIGHER!








Or are there additional features?

EDIT: It seems that it can only use USB? lol


----------



## lmnop

it looks like the Razer Blackwidow ($79.99) white backlighting has no multimedia hub.

still don't know what mechanical key switch it uses. it doesn't compare to Deck at least in terms of quality. Deck uses high quality plastics and the LED are industrial grade.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


Although I'm not buying that, it still makes me mad that they price the "blue" version 50â‚¬HIGHER!








Or are there additional features?

EDIT: It seems that it can only use USB? lol


it uses a optimized matrix like the Lycosa.


----------



## ch_123

No NKRO at that price? lol

So, anyone want to explain how blue LEDs make the keyboard twice as expensive as white ones? =P


----------



## lmnop

apparently Razer has been developing the Blackwidow for 4 years. they had a presentation on stage at Gamescom about mechanical key switches, force graphs, etc. I think they developed there own switch. see here. it could be mechanical keyboards ugly step child! $79.99 means one more person has been assimilated into the collective.


----------



## ch_123

I like how they seem to use the Cherry MY switch as their example of "other mechanical"


----------



## lmnop

inbred children need love too


----------



## TwoCables

Razer is going to give good mechanical keyboards a bad reputation.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*


Any idea how the build quality is on it? How does it compare to deck?


Knowing Razer, it's likely to be quite noticeably inferior to Deck's keyboards.


----------



## lmnop

http://www2.razerzone.com/blackwidow/

thanks to kyle in the other thread. there is a demo how the switch works.


----------



## kyle-reece

that aint white backlighting.
the cheaper one lacks backlighting usb hub and audio passthroughs.

http://www2.razerzone.com/blackwidow/


----------



## TwoCables

It's Â£79.99, not $79.99.


----------



## lmnop

nope. $79.99 USD and $129.99 USD. your right kyle. the Blackwidow is not illuminated I thought that was the one showcased in the tudou video.

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/ogOhm7oPgwA/


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


nope. $79.99 USD and $129.99 USD. your right kyle. the Blackwidow is not illuminated I thought that was the one showcased in the tudou video.

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/ogOhm7oPgwA/


This site says Euro, not USD.


----------



## ch_123

I love how their diagram of the switches internals has absolutely nothing to do with how a Cherry switch actually works.










The little white plastic part which is responsible for the click has about a millimeter of travel each way. So on the downtravel, it pushes against the leaf which causes it to slide up until it cannot go up any more before it clicks, and similarly, on release, the click element is pushed down as far as it goes before it clicks. Because the click element is located at a different point depending on whether you are pressing it or releasing it, you get the infamous "fire key" problem.


----------



## lmnop




----------



## TwoCables

I also love the way they talk about "other" mechanical keyboards as well as how they compare them. But yet I bet even the lowly Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO would absolutely annihilate the BlackWidow.

Thanks a lot, Razer. Sigh.


----------



## lmnop




----------



## TwoCables

I knew this was going to happen someday though.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*












For those of you who don't have a Blue Cherry keyboard - yes; your keyboard does start talking to you in Korean when you press a key =P


----------



## lmnop




----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


For those of you who don't have a Blue Cherry keyboard - yes; your keyboard does start talking to you in Korean when you press a key =P


I actually made a script that just says to force "ai_UseAlternativeReadability=0" as opposed to a value of 1.


----------



## geoxile

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


For those of you who don't have a Blue Cherry keyboard - yes; your keyboard does start talking to you in Korean when you press a key =P


Huh, sounds like my ricecooker


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


This sucks. Now I have to change my sig :/


Nevar!!!!!!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


No NKRO at that price? lol

So, anyone want to explain how blue LEDs make the keyboard twice as expensive as white ones? =P


V V This below

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kyle-reece*


that aint white backlighting.
the cheaper one lacks backlighting usb hub and audio passthroughs.

http://www2.razerzone.com/blackwidow/


The $79 dollar one just looks like a cheap mechanical. If the build quality is passable, it could be the new cheap recommendation.


----------



## Crazy9000

$80 isn't too bad, assuming the switches are decent and the keys don't wobble or anything.

BTW, it looks like they've changed all their claims of 1.5mm actuation to 2mm. I wonder if they had cherry make them a custom switch or something. It could even be a standard one, but they do use the term "unique" 
Quote:



The Razer BlackWidow's uniquely tactile mechanical key architecture


----------



## ch_123

I seriously, seriously doubt it. Their marketing department is just mixing up facts.

EDIT: According to Cherry, the actuation point is at 2mm for their MX switches.

Link


----------



## ljason8eg

I still want to know why they use a tactile switch for gaming. I also love how they group all other mechanical keyboards together assuming they use a switch like MX Blacks and their tactile switch is unique.


----------



## Crazy9000

A tactile switch in itself isn't necessarily bad for gaming. The blues are just "bad" because the actuation point and reset point of the switch are not the same, so you have to lift your finger off the key basically to press it again.


----------



## ch_123

In fairness, the superiority of linear switches is blown out of all proportions. At the same time, they're not all that great for typing.

Something like a Brown Cherry switch is the best compromise IMHO.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


$80 isn't too bad, assuming the switches are decent and the keys don't wobble or anything.

BTW, it looks like they've changed all their claims of 1.5mm actuation to 2mm. I wonder if they had cherry make them a custom switch or something. It could even be a standard one, but they do use the term "unique"


Of course Razer would call it "unique". Look at how they're comparing their mechanical keyboard to all "other" mechanical boards. They make theirs look like it's the only one available with an actuation force lighter than 60g, and they also make it look like it's the only one that has such a pronounced tactile response as well as a click. They're like _"zomg! Eureka! We have a really unique and really awesome elite mechanical keyboard!"_

Razer makes me rage a little.


----------



## lmnop

12 hours ago Razer had a product listing on their store for the Blackwidow Ultimate but was taken down a couple hours earlier. it said the actuation point was 1.5mm that is why we played the guessing game.

Quote:

Full Mechanical Keys for Superior Tactility and Faster Response
The Razer BlackWidow's mechanical key technology provides a distinctive tactile feedback in form of a light pronounced tap to your fingers giving you an entirely new feel on your keyboard. With its optimized *actuation force of 50g and a reduced travel distance of 1.5 mm* the Razer BlackWidow's keys allow you to actuate your commands faster than on any other standard gaming keyboard.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Of course Razer would call it "unique". Look at how they're comparing their mechanical keyboard to all "other" mechanical boards. They make theirs look like it's the only one available with an actuation force lighter than 60g, and they also make it look like it's the only one that has such a pronounced tactile response as well as a click.

Razer makes me rage a little.

They make a lot of money by blowing smoke. And they are certainly good at what they do (smoke, not keyboards)


----------



## fssbzz

maybe is cherry clear switches.
the MSRP is way cheaper compare to Xarmor and Deck


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
They make a lot of money by blowing smoke. And they are certainly good at what they do (smoke, not keyboards)

Yeah, those bastards. I wish I could take my keyboard and go march into their offices and say, _"Let's see how good your BlackWidow_ *really* _is".

_

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
maybe is cherry clear switches.
the MSRP is way cheaper compare to Xarmor and Deck

That's because they're not Cherry MX switches. It almost sounds like they're using proprietary switches that they manufactured!


----------



## Crazy9000

Given the new information- 2mm actuation and 50g force, as well as tactile, doesn't that fit the MX blues perfectly?


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Given the new information- 2mm actuation and 50g force, as well as tactile, doesn't that fit the MX blues perfectly?

ya+ is clicky.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Given the new information- 2mm actuation and 50g force, as well as tactile, doesn't that fit the MX blues perfectly?

I don't remember who said it or who brought it up, but after I saw what I'm talking about, I came away from it almost knowing that this is Razer's own new proprietary mechanical switch.

Plus, that diagram doesn't look like a Cherry MX.


----------



## lmnop

if you pay attention to the diagram the art work is the same for both "Blackwidow" and "other mechanical keyboard" it's just a diagram of a buckling spring to illustrate a mechanical key switch.


















it didn't make sense 12 hours ago because the actuation point was listed at 1.5mm now it's been revised to 2mm.










what Razer illustrates and describes fits the profile of Cherry MX Blue switches.

the Keyboard was also designed by iOne.

everything fits into place.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Plus, that diagram doesn't look like a Cherry MX.

As I pointed out before, the convoluted design of the Cherry MX switches does not make for pretty animated pictures =P

Besides, when you compare the possibility that Razer went to the effort of making their own switch that has the exact same operating characteristics as a Blue Cherry switch with the odds that their marketing departments are just imbeciles... It's a no brainer


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
As I pointed out before, the convoluted design of the Cherry MX switches does not make for pretty animated pictures =P

Besides, when you compare the possibility that Razer went to the effort of making their own switch that has the exact same operating characteristics as a Blue Cherry switch with the odds that their marketing departments are just imbeciles... It's a no brainer









hahahahaha well said!


----------



## McStuff

My glorious new keyboard just arrived. I'm typing on it right now! The feel is definitely unique, and it's definitely a bit loud. However, it could definitely use a cleaning. I got lucky because I checked, and it has two piece keycaps







It also worked straight out of the box with PS2. I've also tested all keys in Aquakeytest and there are no problems.


----------



## Mas

McStuff, What is it?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I also love the way they talk about "other" mechanical keyboards as well as how they compare them. But yet I bet even the lowly Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO would absolutely annihilate the BlackWidow.

Thanks a lot, Razer. Sigh.

TwoCables, I take it then that you do not think very highly of the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO? Or am I reading you wrong?


----------



## Marin

He got a Model M.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
He got a Model M.

Hey Marin, is it normal for videos taken with the PowerShot G10 to come out up-side down once downloaded from the camera? I mean, it doesn't matter what player is used: they're upside down. I've tried several different USB cables too.


----------



## Marin

No, they shouldn't be upside down.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
No, they shouldn't be upside down.

I know, but they are.









It's the strangest thing. I told my mom that perhaps it's a video setting causing some kind of strange occurrence. She's using Windows XP, so my theory was that perhaps there's some video setting to change in the Camera's menu to prevent it.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
last year I saw a Computex floor plan from a couple years back and under Datacomp it said they were showcasing the steelseries 7G that year. apparently Datacomp also had some involvement in the Filco Bluetooth as well.

there isn't much information on the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate so I would say the steelseries 6Gv2 because it uses good plastics.

You remember that after just seeing a floor plan? I was there and I would never remember that. Keyboards at computex have been mostly boring for the last few years









Aren't you suppose to wash your hands AFTER going to the computer


----------



## godofdeath

so what are the new releases soon or just released?

just released
xarmor

to be released
razer

anything else?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

XArmor has some more stuff coming out in the coming year. A lot of it still NDA, but there are one or two things that look very interesting and I'll be getting an ES of one of them next month.


----------



## Marin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
so what are the new releases soon or just released?

just released
xarmor

to be released
razer

anything else?

Canceled.
Miniguru
Trololololo


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
Canceled.
Miniguru
Trololololo

That keyboard actually looks pretty sweet.


----------



## ch_123

Still waiting on the Tenkeyless Unicomp...


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
You remember that after just seeing a floor plan? I was there and I would never remember that. Keyboards at computex have been mostly boring for the last few years









Aren't you suppose to wash your hands AFTER going to the computer









http://www.iqmore.idv.tw/computex2009

Quote:

DATACOMP -明哲(官網)：C838
產品：Jaki, SteelSeries 7G, Filco藍牙


----------



## Shane1244

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I also love the way they talk about "other" mechanical keyboards as well as how they compare them. *But yet I bet even the lowly Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO would absolutely annihilate the BlackWidow.*

Thanks a lot, Razer. Sigh.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Yeah, those bastards. I wish I could take my keyboard and go march into their offices and say, _"Let's see how good your BlackWidow_ *really* _is".

_
That's because they're not Cherry MX switches. I*t almost sounds like they're using proprietary switches that they manufactured!*

So, You think that they made their own switches, That no user has ever used yet, but yet you somehow know that they will be worse then the keyboard you just happen to own.

Get out of here you fanboy.


----------



## WTHbot

It it is a razer proprietary switch?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WTHbot* 
It it is a razer proprietary switch?

New info makes it look like a Cherry MX Blue


----------



## Kamakazi

Hmmm, it is Blues....well....$73 is pretty cheap.


----------



## Tatakai All

I have two questions, is that Razer mech board out yet and is this a good mech board?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...cks-_-23204017


----------



## airplaneman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
Canceled.
Miniguru
Trololololo

Man, that was sick. I'd buy one in a heartbeat. Too bad it's canceled..

Are there any more keyboards like that besides the Happy Hacker?


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tatakai All* 
I have two questions, is that Razer mech board out yet and is this a good mech board?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...cks-_-23204017

It's not a bad one. I'd say it's middle of the road for mechanicals these days. You should look into Das though, as they had a 25% thing going last I knew. Which would make it around $100 or so. Otherwise you could wait for the general consensus on the new Razer mechanicals ($79 and $129) before making a purchase.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *airplaneman* 
Man, that was sick. I'd buy one in a heartbeat. Too bad it's canceled..

Are there any more keyboards like that besides the Happy Hacker?

Well there's Filco Tenkeyless boards, Topre Realforce 86u, & Adesso MKB-125MB


----------



## McStuff

After cleaning up this keyboard and using it for a bit, I've come up with some thoughts. My initial impressions were that it felt solidly built and was hefty. The two piece keycaps was a nice touch. I was able to switch the caps to colemak without any unevenness among the keys. Considering this keyboard is 15 years old, it's in quite good condition. After a fairly thorough cleaning, this keyboard looks like it just came out of the box. All text is clearly legible and keys show minimal signs of wear. As for the actual typing, I'm a bit torn. As I posted earlier, my first typing experience was not the model m, but a Siig keyboard that used alps. The actuation force on the model m is pretty high. I think I preferred the lighter force of the alps, but I'll give it time to see how I adjust to it. If I don't adjust to it well, I'll probably just wait until I can buy something with cherry blues.


----------



## Hoodcom

I have some news about the Mechanical Keyboard I have ordered... I ain't got to use it yet because FedEx seems to have lost it... though they keep insisting they didn't, according to what EliteKeyboards support told me.

Keyboard shipped August 10th, and the last thing said on their tracking page, was on August 11th, it left a FedEx location in California... estimated delivery was Friday 13th that week.

Well, there was never an update on tracking and never a package at my door. Still even so today.

Thankfully EliteKeyboards will be taking care of this for me. I got an email from last night that if FedEx can't figure anything out, they'll hold shipment of the package and just go with a new shipment for me.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Manyak is the 200ms delay when sequencing on the i-Rocks KR-6230 noticeable by the eye?

Yes, very easily. Look at this passmark keyboard test, you'll see that it sequences 6 keys at a time. I just mashed the entire keyboard and it ended up sending keystrokes like that.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Yes, very easily. Look at this passmark keyboard test, you'll see that it sequences 6 keys at a time. I just mashed the entire keyboard and it ended up sending keystrokes like that.






thanks.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoodcom* 
I have some news about the Mechanical Keyboard I have ordered... I ain't got to use it yet because FedEx seems to have lost it... though they keep insisting they didn't, according to what EliteKeyboards support told me.

Keyboard shipped August 10th, and the last thing said on their tracking page, was on August 11th, it left a FedEx location in California... estimated delivery was Friday 13th that week.

Well, there was never an update on tracking and never a package at my door. Still even so today.

Thankfully EliteKeyboards will be taking care of this for me. I got an email from last night that if FedEx can't figure anything out, they'll hold shipment of the package and just go with a new shipment for me.

sorry to hear about Fedex maybe you and Tom Hanks can get your money back.


----------



## bloke226

I own a Filco with blues and love it at home. Since I work in an office environment and type for 40+hrs a week I figured I bring it to work since I do most of my typing here, but my co-workers have kind of complained of the noise that the blues make when I type hah, which is understandable and I don't want to become an annoyance.

Would going with brown be a good option or should I go with blacks? I love the feel of the blues and the noise isn't a deal breaker for me, but I would love to get rid of this old Dell multimedia board.

The typing I do at work is different than I do at home. At work I enter in information on customer accounts with specific information like room numbers or door codes, addresses, etc. I also write e-mails, but overall my typing isn't as fluid as if I am writing on forums and writing a term paper like I would at home....so I don't know if that would be useful information to make a suggestion.


----------



## Hoodcom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
sorry to hear about Fedex maybe you and Tom Hanks can get your money back.

Well, no, they're going to get me the model I ordered still. Which is what I want.


----------



## lattyware

I recieved my new board today. Will post pictures and stuff tommorow, been busy today as I got my results and got accepted into Uni.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoodcom* 
Well, no, they're going to get me the model I ordered still. Which is what I want.









I know. it was a opportunity to make a Cast Away joke.


----------



## De-Zant

Which is better for typing?
A rubber dome that feels great compared to (for example) The g15 and the lycosa and every other dome that *I* Have tried (I've typed on a lot of keyboards (Most of them low end though)), or my soon to arrive 6Gv2?
I can't help but ranting here because it is 1.5 weeks and the products that I ordered from the same store haven't even arrived at the store.







I guess it will be sent in a few days. Then the package will take forever to arrive...


----------



## lmnop

steelseries 6Gv2.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
steelseries 6Gv2.

Looking forward to it. Slow delivery FTL. It was the only store that I could find a mechanical in.


----------



## WTHbot

So I got a second job, mechanical Keyboard here I come.

I just wish I could get a blue Switch Deck. . .


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *De-Zant* 
Looking forward to it. Slow delivery FTL. It was the only store that I could find a mechanical in.

it's a easy answer. you probably haven't even typed on a good rubber dome keyboard before. even if you have you would probably like mechanical switches more.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WTHbot* 
So I got a second job, mechanical Keyboard here I come.

I just wish I could get a blue Switch Deck. . .

You mean blue backlighting, or a board with MX blues?

If you want backlighting with MX Blues, perhaps you should be one of the first to test the new Blackwidow


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
it's a easy answer. you probably haven't even typed on a good rubber dome keyboard before. even if you have you would probably like mechanical switches more.

I guess I haven't... But it amazes me that this ancient HP keyboard still feels much better than any other rubber dome I have tried. I have tried G11/G15/G19 and they feel like crap. I have tried the Lycosa and it felt plasticy. I have tried the sidewinders and they felt just a little bit better than lycosa. Also a lot of low end keyboards have been tested.

I got annoyed by how I can't press CTRL/Shift + D at the same time... So.. It was a time for a new one.


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
You mean blue backlighting, or a board with MX blues?

If you want backlighting with MX Blues, perhaps you should be one of the first to test the new Blackwidow

I know. . . Maybe browns would be better.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WTHbot* 
I know. . . Maybe browns would be better.

you could always buy a used mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX Blue switches and transplant them into a Deck Legend.


----------



## goobafish

After finding this thread a few months ago, I have finally decided to swap my g15rev2 for a brand new Das Ultimate, going to pick it up tomorrow. I will let you know how it feels.

I have heard that the keys cannot be removed. How would you preform deep cleaning on a Das Ultimate?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goobafish* 
After finding this thread a few months ago, I have finally decided to swap my g15rev2 for a brand new Das Ultimate, going to pick it up tomorrow. I will let you know how it feels.

I have heard that the keys cannot be removed. How would you preform deep cleaning on a Das Ultimate?

they can be removed. see here.










soak the keycaps in a bucket of warm water and dish detergent. hold a can of compressed air on a angle a couple feet away and give a couple squirts over the steel plate.

for the faceplate buy a Novus Polish and Scratch Remover Kit.


----------



## WingedCow

Razer's coming out with a mechanical keyboard.
http://store.razerzone.com/store/raz...oryId.49136200
I think I'll order one when it comes out.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shane1244* 
So, You think that they made their own switches, That no user has ever used yet, but yet you somehow know that they will be worse then the keyboard you just happen to own.

Get out of here you fanboy.









Regarding the quality of this keyboard and where it will land in comparison to the other mechanical keyboards available to us, time will tell. But this is Razer, and so again: it will not surprise me if people end up finding that this mechanical keyboard is nothing special and that it's overpriced.

Regarding the switches: the reason why I said that it sounds like they're using proprietary switches is due to previous speculations by reputable members here in this thread. After all, even though they're claiming 50g, 2mm to actuation and tactile & clicky, the diagram of the switch they're using doesn't look exactly like a Cherry MX switch. However, it could be the angle as well (meaning, the angle they chose to draw it at).

Anyway, don't ever call me a fanboy ever again. Thank you. But if you want to continue talking to me like that, then I'll just report you and let the staff deal with you. After all, with the rules OCN has, I shouldn't have to deal with an attitude like yours.

*Edit:* Being that this is your first post in this thread, you have absolutely no right to tell me to get out of here. How about *you* get out of here? Plus, you don't even own a mechanical keyboard! So what are you doing in here? Are you just trolling me? It sure as hell _looks_ like it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bloke226* 
I own a Filco with blues and love it at home. Since I work in an office environment and type for 40+hrs a week I figured I bring it to work since I do most of my typing here, but my co-workers have kind of complained of the noise that the blues make when I type hah, which is understandable and I don't want to become an annoyance.

Would going with brown be a good option or should I go with blacks? I love the feel of the blues and the noise isn't a deal breaker for me, but I would love to get rid of this old Dell multimedia board.

The typing I do at work is different than I do at home. At work I enter in information on customer accounts with specific information like room numbers or door codes, addresses, etc. I also write e-mails, but overall my typing isn't as fluid as if I am writing on forums and writing a term paper like I would at home....so I don't know if that would be useful information to make a suggestion.

Are you bottoming out the keys by chance? When not bottoming out the keys, even the Tactile Click can be quiet enough for such environments.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Regarding the switches: the reason why I said that it sounds like they're using proprietary switches is due to previous speculations by reputable members here in this thread. After all, even though they're claiming 50g, 2mm to actuation and tactile & clicky, the diagram of the switch they're using doesn't look exactly like a Cherry MX switch. However, it could be the angle as well (meaning, the angle they chose to draw it at).


I think most of that speculation was based on the original page, which erroneously listed the actuation at 1.5mm. Someone pointed out that while the image doesn't look that much like a cherry switch, they used the same image to illustrate what "other" switches do also, so it's most likely just a poor\\weird drawing.

Although, there is really no way to actually know for sure until it comes out. Anything until then is speculation.


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


they can be removed. see here.










soak the keycaps in a bucket of warm water and dish detergent. hold a can of compressed air on a angle a couple feet away and give a couple squirts over the steel plate.

for the faceplate buy a Novus Polish and Scratch Remover Kit.


It's such a pleasure that this picture that I've taken a long time ago gets included here and there once in a while.


----------



## Jalal

Someone could ask him to pop off a keycap:











Just make clear that you're not from geekhack


----------



## ch_123

And there's something rather ironic about a guy who goes to the effort of reviewing a keyboard and says -

Quote:



Kind of questions your faith in humanity when an individual is insulted for not spending his living days examining the inner workings of a computer keyboard.


Talk about the pot and his black kettle friend...


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


Someone could ask him to pop off a keycap:





Just make clear that you're not from geekhack


hahahaha! Gooood idea!

Quote:



"@manjyoumethunder I would do﻿ until a good friend of mine linked me to your webpage consisting of nothing but thick rimmed anorexics throbbing at my lack of ground work undertaken previous to this review. Kind of questions your faith in humanity when an individual is insulted for not spending his living days examining the inner workings of a computer keyboard.

get a grip."


----------



## bloke226

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Are you bottoming out the keys by chance? When not bottoming out the keys, even the Tactile Click can be quiet enough for such environments.


I used to when I first got the keyboard, like most I would assume, but I've gotten better since I've had it for a few months. I rarely bottom out now unless I'm gaming or using the numpad (out of habit). So I brought it back since I was able to not bottom out 95% of the time and my co-workers still noticed that I had a different keyboard lol (nosier).

I work in cubicle land and my part of the building is relatively quiet for the most part in the early morning and late afternoon. I can usually hear other people's keyboards 30ft down the hallway; that could be a combination of many things (acoustics, the user bottoming out, my hearing) so...I guess my office environment isn't the typical "loud" cubicle environment?


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


Someone could ask him to pop off a keycap:





Just make clear that you're not from geekhack


Just vote up the post made by "MrWhatsthisidonteven". Apparently he's from OCN.


----------



## Marin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Just vote up the post made by "MrWhatsthisidonteven". Apparently he's from OCN.


Done.


----------



## lmnop

by the way if anybody needs instructions how to disassemble the Das Model S see here. I think this mod was originally by a GH member I can't remember who.


----------



## EnzoFX

I want to take advantage of the Das promo. Was looking at making it my first mechanical KB anyways ;-). However, I just can't make up my mind if I should get the blue or brown switches.

I'm coming from a standard MS KB that I've used for years, and this may prove I'm not picky, but I want to make sure I go with what's best for me. The mushyness of my KB I can almost say I've gotten use to it, as newer KB's feel a little stiff for me I believe. I may have missed this in the first posts, but didn't see a direct comparison of actuation force of a regular KB vs. Mechanical. Should I go with brown because they're lighter?

With the blue switches, I would look forward to the better typing experience, but I do game lighty. I say lightly as I am sorta recovering from some CTS =P, perhaps I should factor that in too (go for ligher switches? or is the fact that they're both mechanical better for my fingers?=P). Overall I'd say I care more about general KB use, but I don't want a... steep learning curve? when gaming...

Is the "gaming advantage" of the browns smaller than the advantage of the blues for general typing use? =P

ah, I'll try to do more research, but I welcome input =).


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

I find mechanical keyboards kind of strange to the touch. They require a a larger amount of force to make them go down the whole way. The nice thing though is that it eliminates the problem where some people accidentally press a key. I find the ergonomic weird too because I'm really use to the straight, rectangular keyboard.


----------



## Tatakai All

Are any of these boards worth the price or should I look for a better quality mech board?
http://www.amazon.com/SolidTek-KB-66...2288633&sr=8-7
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Mechanic...2288633&sr=8-2
http://www.amazon.com/USB-Desktop-Ke...2288633&sr=8-1


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


Are any of these boards worth the price or should I look for a better quality mech board?
http://www.amazon.com/SolidTek-KB-66...2288633&sr=8-7
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Mechanic...2288633&sr=8-2
http://www.amazon.com/USB-Desktop-Ke...2288633&sr=8-1


What are you looking for in terms of use? Gaming? More typing? Balance?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


I find mechanical keyboards kind of strange to the touch. They require a a larger amount of force to make them go down the whole way. The nice thing though is that it eliminates the problem where some people accidentally press a key. I find the ergonomic weird too because I'm really use to the straight, rectangular keyboard.


Which mechanical keyboard are you referring to? It almost sounds like a keyboard with either the Cherry MX Blacks, or perhaps the Buckling Springs.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
I find mechanical keyboards kind of strange to the touch. They require a a larger amount of force to make them go down the whole way. The nice thing though is that it eliminates the problem where some people accidentally press a key. I find the ergonomic weird too because I'm really use to the straight, rectangular keyboard.

My MX Blues are lighter than my G15 keys were. They also only need to be pushed down halfway to register the keystroke, so there's no point in pushing them any further. MX Browns are even lighter than Blues. I think Twocables is spot on.


----------



## DeckerDontPlay

The browns in my Flico are super light. I could barely type when I first got this keyboard. Now when I go to work and type on all the generic rubber domes I get exhausted and frustrated.


----------



## runeazn

i luv my das keyboard europe retailer









he gave me 20 euro off on any ultimate keyboard brings down price to 99 euro = 109$<if u americans dont know lol


----------



## Weasel555

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823201040

Is this worth the 111$ price tag for gaming/typing? I am a gamer, but i do also a moderate amount of typing for work related projects and the sort.


----------



## ch_123

Wow, the price of those have gone up...

At that price, I'd get either the Filco or the Das which are somewhat cheaper, and properly proven. Unless someone has one of those Rosewill keyboards, who knows what sort of issues it may have.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Weasel555* 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823201040

Is this worth the 111$ price tag for gaming/typing? I am a gamer, but i do also a moderate amount of typing for work related projects and the sort.

Looks quite a bit like the Filco boards, so it's probably made by costar and of a similar build quality. If you are a student I would look into the Das keyboards, as they offer a good 20-25% discount (e-mail them with proof for the code).

Since it has Cherry blue switches, I will have to warn you that they can be hard to game on for some people, since you have to lift your finger pretty much all the way up before you press the key down again. When I'm pressing keys quickly I don't do this, so I can't really game on them. It seems like more people don't have this problem then do though.

On the flip side, I think the Cherry blue switches are one of the best feeling to type on.


----------



## TwoCables

The Rosewill board looks like the Costar CST-104:

http://www.costar.com.tw/products01/...id=45&p_sid=32

Is it?

I think this board is what the ABS M1 and Filco Majestouch boards are made from.


----------



## ch_123

Yes, it's almost definitely a Costar board.

Even within Costar boards, you get a degree of variance in quality, especially in regards to the controller. You'd really need some brave soul to buy one and test it for transposition errors and the like before recommending it en masse.


----------



## Hoodcom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
This sucks. Now I have to change my sig :/

Lol!

Well, I guess you could just leave Logitech and put "all other crappy keyboards" in place of Razer"
















Okay, really though, maybe "Don't buy a non-mechanical keyboard, see what a REAL keyboard is like!"









An update from Elitekeyboards from last night. They said FedEx will be checking for the package in their lost and found system.. which basically sounds like they lost it. He'll be preparing another keyboard for me, but he'll check FedEx one more time, today.

Great support from EliteKeyboards.


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nijikon5*


What are you looking for in terms of use? Gaming? More typing? Balance?


Mostly gaming, but I type a lot also.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


Mostly gaming, but I type a lot also.


MX Browns are a great balance


----------



## clownfart

I was using a 6Gv2 at quakecon. It's a great keyboard, and you can definitely feel how much stiffer they keys are if you're used to browns. It has a really odd feel when typing. I don't think I used it enough to form a good opinion on it. Though I don't think I'd like them over browns for either gaming or typing.


----------



## fssbzz

when typing on brown switches, i used as little force as i can, it makes me type smoothly and feel the best when typing on brown switches.when comes to gaming..they works like a charm too.
i love my das silent so much =D


----------



## Tatakai All

Thanks, now it's between brown or black switches.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


Thanks, now it's between brown or black switches.


or clear switches from deck keyboard.
tactile, non clicky, 55g force.


----------



## EnzoFX

Thanks guys, will be going with the browns! First it seemed I wanted the clicking feedback of the blues, but now I'm sold on the quieter key presses, and the lighter touch!

Random question, do those current Das kb's have the Fn keys setup as media keys? Or were those just the previous model s?


----------



## Jalal

Just the previous Model S unfortunately. People complained they needed the windows key so they removed the media keys. I wonder why, i always use alt+tab and never had a problem with it.


----------



## nijikon5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


Thanks, now it's between brown or black switches.


Can't go wrong with either for gaming + some typing. Just make sure you get a quality board with N-Key Rollover ( Filco, Das, Steelseries ). Like people on the thread have said, if you get a Das w/browns, get the student discount. The Steelseries 6Gv2 is $99 and the Das is $99 w/discount. The only reason to spend 30-40 more for the Filco is if you wanted the 10 Keyless form factor.


----------



## clownfart

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


Just the previous Model S unfortunately. People complained they needed the windows key so they removed the media keys. I wonder why, i always use alt+tab and never had a problem with it.


Windows key has a lot more function then just minimizing a game. Personally I think its better this way because you can setup your own functions in Windows easily.


----------



## Jalal

Ah right, didn't thought through it, using several windows shortcuts like e.g. ofcourse windows+E and such.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


Just the previous Model S unfortunately. People complained they needed the windows key so they removed the media keys. I wonder why, i always use alt+tab and never had a problem with it.


Metadot never gave a official explanation why they removed them.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Metadot never gave a official explanation why they removed them.


If you look back at reviews and such when they were doing that, almost all of them complain about the fn key. Also there's a few guides on how to disable or remap the fn key. It doesn't seem like it was very popular, despite the fact that someone comes in this thread every other day wanting media keys lol.


----------



## lmnop

I read the media keys gave mac users problems. people have e-mailed Metadot to ask why and Metadot replies "read our blog" but nothing there.


----------



## EnzoFX

The reason why they took off the old Fn key makes perfect sense. It was located in the stupidest spot ever. That is no reason why they can't include one in general. They can include one next to the F keys like a lot of desktop kb's do...


----------



## Kuiper

I'm considering getting a Das keyboard during the back to school sale, and I have a question about cherry mx blue versus brown switches. I've heard that the browns are better for gaming whereas the blues are better for typing, and I'm primarily a typist. It seems like the blues offer better tactile feedback, which does appeal to me. However, I do wonder how much of the perceived difference between the blues and the browns is actually _tactile_ feedback, rather than auditory. I'm also inclined to believe that the lightness of the browns might make them more comfortable as a typist's keyboard. If I want something that will be comfortable to type on for hours at a time, which set of switches should I go with?

Another keyboard I noticed is the "customizer 104," which is supposed to be an IBM model M clone. I presume this means that it has bucking springs, which makes the keys heavier while providing more tactile feedback. Is the increased tactile feedback worth the added weight of the keys? Again, I want a keyboard that I'll feel comfortable typing on for hours at a time.


----------



## Crazy9000

I would suggest the blue switches. You can feel the tactile feedback, it's not just the audible difference.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

There is a very noticeable difference between MX blues and browns in regards to tactile feel. The blues have a very sharp, in your face tactile point, while the browns have a subtler tactile "bump".

I personally prefer buckling springs over MX blues by a small margin. I will say, if you go for a Unicomp get the space saving version in black, so you don't have the excessive bezel or plain beige color.


----------



## Kuiper

I guess my main question was whether the increase in tactile feedback is worth the increased weight. On the very extreme end of things, there are springs, which of course offer much more tactile feedback, but also require more force to depress. I am somewhat tempted by the blue switches, since they are only marginally heavier than the browns.

Another question: if I do decide to go with blue switches, should I get the Das Model S for $99, or should I hold out and get the cheaper BlackWidow model from Razer for $80 in about a month? I am kind of a Razer fanboy, having used both a Copperhead and a Deathadder, but I won't deny that I am a bit wary about the durability of their products, having had the Copperhead die on me after less than two years of use. Razer customer support was awesome about replacing my mouse promptly, but that's kind of a moot issue when I want a keyboard that will outlast most warranty periods by several years.


----------



## Crazy9000

The weight of the blues isn't enough to fatigue you or anything, like buckling springs can.

I would go for the Das personally, Razer has had very large problems with build quality on their keyboards in the past. I think the Razer is supposed to come out on the tenth though, it wouldn't be too long of a wait to see what it's like.


----------



## goobafish

Just came back from picking up my Das Ultimate. I love it, it is amazing the difference typing on this vs my old G15.


----------



## godofdeath

With the blues from das you actually feel a bump as you push the key down. On the browns however, I really didn't feel anything, and there is also the click on the blues to let you know the progress as you press the key.


----------



## godofdeath

if you are nyc you can try out the board also at J&R @ city hall


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kuiper* 
I'm considering getting a Das keyboard during the back to school sale, and I have a question about cherry mx blue versus brown switches. I've heard that the browns are better for gaming whereas the blues are better for typing, and I'm primarily a typist. It seems like the blues offer better tactile feedback, which does appeal to me. However, I do wonder how much of the perceived difference between the blues and the browns is actually _tactile_ feedback, rather than auditory. I'm also inclined to believe that the lightness of the browns might make them more comfortable as a typist's keyboard. If I want something that will be comfortable to type on for hours at a time, which set of switches should I go with?

Another keyboard I noticed is the "customizer 104," which is supposed to be an IBM model M clone. I presume this means that it has bucking springs, which makes the keys heavier while providing more tactile feedback. Is the increased tactile feedback worth the added weight of the keys? Again, I want a keyboard that I'll feel comfortable typing on for hours at a time.

I have this model of the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO, and it's my first and only mechanical keyboard. Now, if there's one thing I can say about it in regards to typing, then it's that it is perhaps the most perfect keyboard for it. The Cherry MX Blues are not too heavy and not too light. The tactile response is crisp and precise, and the clicks are very satisfying.

With the way it feels to type on this keyboard, it makes me wish I could somehow type non-stop, 24/7. I mean, I can definitely type for hours on end and never get fatigued or wish that the switches required less force to press! If 50g is the exact amount of weight required to get this switch to go down far enough to actuate (2 mm down), then 50g is about as light as a feather in comparison to rubber dome keyboards!

Now, this isn't to say that the Cherry MX Browns would be too light, but it's that I believe that the Cherry MX Blues are just right for you based on everything you've said so far.

If I remember correctly, then I think that the Das Model S and the Filco Majestouch boards would be pretty much identical in a blind comparison (meaning, being blindfolded while comparing the two). But it has been said that the Das Model S is superior to the Majestouch in the overall build quality. So definitely go with the Das Model S and take advantage of the Student Discount!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kuiper* 
I guess my main question was whether the increase in tactile feedback is worth the increased weight. On the very extreme end of things, there are springs, which of course offer much more tactile feedback, but also require more force to depress. I am somewhat tempted by the blue switches, since they are only marginally heavier than the browns.

Another question: if I do decide to go with blue switches, should I get the Das Model S for $99, or should I hold out and get the cheaper BlackWidow model from Razer for $80 in about a month? I am kind of a Razer fanboy, having used both a Copperhead and a Deathadder, but I won't deny that I am a bit wary about the durability of their products, having had the Copperhead die on me after less than two years of use. Razer customer support was awesome about replacing my mouse promptly, but that's kind of a moot issue when I want a keyboard that will outlast most warranty periods by several years.

The Das Model S is certainly a superior-quality keyboard to the Black Widow. If I'm not mistaken, then I believe the Black Widow is perhaps on par with the iOne Scorpius M10BL. This isn't to say that it's an absolutely horrible mechanical keyboard, but for the price difference, the Das Model S is quite a superior choice. Plus, the BlackWidow does not have full NKRO whereas the Das Model S _does_. To be honest, I am predicting that the Black Widow is going to turn out to be another over-priced Razer keyboard.


----------



## lmnop

Razer Blackwidow Ultimate uses Cherry MX Blue switches. special thanks to the bull.


----------



## Marin

Finally!

Not surprised either.


----------



## Crazy9000

Now that I have a good look at the Razer board, it's kind of ugly.


----------



## lmnop

focus on the J, P Keycaps they are wobbly just like the Adesso which iOne also made.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
focus on the J, P Keycaps they are wobbly just like the Adesso which iOne also made.

I'm not surprised. :/


----------



## lmnop

a whole bunch are crooked in this picture.


----------



## lmnop

according to the Guinness Book of World Records the Brazilian Wandering Spider is the world's deadliest.

I hope Razer uses a new OEM for the Razer Wandering.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
according to the Guinness Book of World Records the Brazilian Wandering Spider is the world's deadliest.

I hope Razer uses a new OEM for the Razer Wandering.

lol. If it's the deadliest, wouldn't it have to be the best keyboard ever made, and cost $500 (750 after Razer markup)?


----------



## W4LNUT5

Received this link today. http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/

Got a bit of unicomp stuff. Supposed to be pretty legit on the pricing. (I haven't really looked at it yet. Going to bed now)


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Received this link today. http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/

Got a bit of unicomp stuff. Supposed to be pretty legit on the pricing. (I haven't really looked at it yet. Going to bed now)

that is Unicomps online store silly


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Received this link today. http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/

Got a bit of unicomp stuff. Supposed to be pretty legit on the pricing. (I haven't really looked at it yet. Going to bed now)

Go for either the Customizer 104 or the SpaceSaver 104.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Go for either the Customizer 104 or the SpaceSaver 104.

Nonsense, what he needs is a 122-key keyboard -










^_^


----------



## TwoCables

Aw man, I wish I could top that.


----------



## ch_123

You mean like this -










I would strangle small children to own of those things...


----------



## TwoCables

Hax.


----------



## ch_123

And yes, that keyboard would in fact have NKRO.


----------



## lmnop

motorized keyboard


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*











motorized keyboard







That would be absolutely terrible for gaming...
I can't imagine having a split keyboard. I couldn't play BF2


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
And yes, that keyboard would in fact have NKRO.

Where's the home row?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *De-Zant* 
That would be absolutely terrible for gaming...
I can't imagine having a split keyboard. I couldn't play BF2

Not to mention a keyboard that physically adjusts on its own.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 









motorized keyboard






Motorized? Does it run away from you when you type on it too much?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *De-Zant* 
That would be absolutely terrible for gaming...
I can't imagine having a split keyboard. I couldn't play BF2

fixed angle keyboards are great you don't know what your missing. webwit will own one by years end haha


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Motorized? Does it run away from you when you type on it too much?

watch the Youtube video. promotional demo.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


fixed angle keyboards are great you don't know what your missing. webwit will own one by years end haha


Webwit has went on many a foul-mouthed rant about fixed angle "ergonomic" keyboards...


----------



## lmnop

trulyergonomic updated their site.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Webwit has went on many a foul-mouthed rant about fixed angle "ergonomic" keyboards...

yet he owns every one of importance.










want to guess which one is worth $1600?


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
trulyergonomic updated their site.

The layout looks akward... But it would work.


----------



## poketama

Can anyone recommend me a mechanical with macro keys, media keys and audio/usb ports? And preferabbly a PS2 port since apparently those are better? Maybe a backlight?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poketama*


Can anyone recommend me a mechanical with macro keys, media keys and audio/usb ports? And preferabbly a PS2 port since apparently those are better? Maybe a backlight?


XArmor U9BL has all of those but the macro keys, which you can program yourself with AutoHotKey. The Razer BlackWidow is coming out, I'm a little iffy on recommending it because of all the marketing FUD they're spreading, but I think it would meet your requirements.


----------



## poketama

Reason why I'm not getting Blackwidow is the backlight is 60 dollars more, it also doesn't have NKRO. I don't REALLY need macro keys but I would like a few. So keeping the question out there

EDIT: Actually I only need audio/usb ports, NRKO and media keys. Macro keys if available. PS2/USB switchability, or just PS2.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poketama* 
Reason why I'm not getting Blackwidow is the backlight is 60 dollars more, it also doesn't have NKRO. I don't REALLY need macro keys but I would like a few. So keeping the question out there

so buy the Razer Blackwidow it's only $79.99 why do you need a multimedia hub for? connect directly through the source always. you don't need NKRO any game that requires more than 3 or 4 keys to be pressed probably needs to be played on a controller.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The U9BL fits all that. Or you could wait for them to ship the MX brown version, but that'll take a few months.


----------



## poketama

Need a multimedia hub because of non-working ports, hubs on razer just reroute them back to the ports. Need NKRO.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poketama* 
Need a multimedia hub because of non-working ports, hubs on razer just reroute them back to the ports. Need NKRO.

Just get a separate USB hub and a Deck Legend. Problem solved. Want cheaper? Drop the backlight.


----------



## poketama

Nope, Deck Legend doesn't have any notable extra features, is 170 dollars and has a backlight. I'm looking at the U9BL at the moment


----------



## lmnop

Quote:

Anti-ghosting
Conventional keyboards are designed to process up a limited number of simultaneous keypresses, and key ghosting typically occurs for certain combinations of 3 keys. When these three keys are pressed simultaneously, this will result either in the third key being ignored or having 'phantom' fourth keypress being erroneously registered by the keyboard.

Anti-ghosting features prevent this from happening on gaming keyboards. Keyboards can have full, selective anti-ghosting or an optimized gaming matrix to minimize this effect. Keyboards with full anti-ghosting can recognize any number of simultaneous keystrokes and usually require a native PS/2 connection. Selective anti-ghosting on keyboards prevent ghosting on the key regions commonly used in gaming, including the WASD key cluster.

*A gaming optimized key matrix eliminates ghosting from the keyboard regardless of location of the keys. While selective anti-ghosting only removes the phenomenon of ghosting from certain 'hotspots', the optimized key matrix is more versatile as it is not restricted to one portion of the keyboard. Thus, the keyboard can accommodate vastly more gaming key-combinations, and therefore would be suitable for virtually all playing styles and game genres.*
this is from the Razer Keyboard Guide. they did something different for the rollover on the Razer Blackwidow.

what do you need NKRO for?


----------



## poketama

Blackwidow doesn't have dedicated media keys and everyone says its bad so I'm going to believe everyone.


----------



## lmnop

the Razer Blackwidow was designed by iOne. no mechanical keyboard on the market has dedicated media keys.

here are the differences.

Razer Blackwidow
Backlight Control shortcut Function + F12
Media Keys shortcut Function + F1-6.
Macro Keys
1 Less USB port
doesn't support NKRO

iOne XArmor U9BL
Media Keys shortcut Shift + F1-6
Backlight Controls shortcut Ctrl + Numpad
Full Rollover

compare prices.


----------



## poketama

Razer ups the price by 100 dollars in Australia. Unless I can get it shipped from overseas, no.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mas* 
I just got an email from a retailer that will ship to me in Australia (xarmor had them email me) but they want $61.50 USD for shipping, so 149.95 + 61.50 = 211.45 for a keyboard 


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mas* 
Hmmm, so, Filco and Das keyboards go for about $195-199 out here, plus shipping, if I buy them from an Australian retailer.

I might just end up begging the wife, and ordering the XArmorU9BL from the States anyways, considering the price is pretty much the same either way, and I really want to try this KB out.


Quote:

The Razer BlackWidow is set for a worldwide release in September 2010 and has a RRP of $189.95 AUD. a Razer BlackWidow Ultimate is also set for release with an RRP of $239.95 AUD.
heh


----------



## poketama

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A1NOKS4V778KSL

160 dollars, looks pretty good. Is this a sound purchase, it doesn't say what type it is.


----------



## lmnop

that keyboard is what we have been discussing.. it's about as good as my people skills.


----------



## poketama

Ok, I will get a...G110.

I'll get a mechanical keyboard when they start using proper keycaps on all of them and bring in all the features of a non. 70 dollars local pickup is alot better than fiddling all day trying to get a mechanical.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poketama* 
Ok, I will get a...G110.

I'll get a mechanical keyboard when they start using proper keycaps on all of them and bring in all the features of a non. 70 dollars local pickup is alot better than fiddling all day trying to get a mechanical.

Woah... Even my HP wireless feels better to type AND game on than logitech boards. I know, have tried. Only thing that the 80â‚¬!!! !Board will do you is backlight. Otherwise it's awful compared to good boards. Get something better.


----------



## poketama

Well if anyone can give me a straight answer on what's a good keyboard I would get one. But apparently everything's ****.

What about this? http://www.deckkeyboards.com/product...products_id=54


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Lmnop thinks everything but Deck is crap.

I'm on the XArmor right now. It isn't 100% perfect, but it's damn good.


----------



## poketama

Well in the case of the XArmor someone said you can't doubletap keys, what's the deal behind that? I'm sure it would be annoying using WASD. The XArmor seems to just be a routethrough hub though, which would make it largely useless in using ports if they're just going to plug into the back.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Lmnop thinks everything but Deck is crap.

I'm on the XArmor right now. It isn't 100% perfect, but it's damn good.

that isn't true there are lots of keyboards I like.

Cherry G80-5000
Miniguru
Deck Legend
Unicomp
Northgate Omnikey

you are one to talk you are going to ride the iOne train as long as you can lol


----------



## poketama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poketama* 
What about this? http://www.deckkeyboards.com/product...products_id=54

Also can someone link me to a PS2-USB adapter?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poketama*


Also can someone link me to a PS2-USB adapter?


try here.


----------



## Derp

Whats with all these new "gaming" mechanical keyboards such as the blackwidow and the Xarmor using MXblues? I thought the general opinion was that blacks,reds and maybe browns were better for gaming and blues were a better choice for typing.

Am I missing something here?


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


that keyboard is what we have been discussing.. it's about as good as my people skills.


Bunk. 









Your people skills are fine.


----------



## lmnop

aww









my people skills are more like this.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


that is Unicomps online store silly


I'd actually never seen it. I was sure the link wasn't new to most here. And in my defense, it was 6am with no sleep yet









Eventually I'll buy a Unicomp. My next board of choice will be something smaller than the Deck.


----------



## Marin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *poketama*


Well in the case of the XArmor someone said you can't doubletap keys, what's the deal behind that? I'm sure it would be annoying using WASD. The XArmor seems to just be a routethrough hub though, which would make it largely useless in using ports if they're just going to plug into the back.


You can double tap keys.


----------



## Skizzorz13

Just looking for a few opinions on what keyboard I should get. I currently have a g19(it was a gift) but am looking for something better.
I play mostly starcraft 2 I am pretty competitive with it and I can be hard on the keyboard because I am a high apm player. I play some other games but its always been starcraft 1 and 2 for as long as I can remember gaming. I would also like something that is decent for typing if it wont screw up gaming.
I was looking at the Xarmor keyboard, Deck Legend and the razer one mostly because of the price 80$ is pretty sweet.

I just am not sure what switch type I should get. I was thinking clear maybe ? or blues ?
Anyways thanks for your time just looking for some opinions.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

My Chicony KB-5181 claims to be made in 1981. Holy crap.


----------



## ch_123

Unlikely. In fact, I'd almost go as far as saying impossible.


----------



## EnzoFX

Should I get the blank keys? or printed? can't decide.....
Don't those things fade easily anyways?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EnzoFX*


Should I get the blank keys? or printed? can't decide.....
Don't those things fade easily anyways?


Depends on the keyboard. Generally they last.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EnzoFX*


Should I get the blank keys? or printed? can't decide.....
Don't those things fade easily anyways?


What board are you talking about? In the end it depends on you. I mean if you still look down when you type then get the ones with letters...


----------



## EnzoFX

Whoops, getting a Das. I don't, unless I'm typing with one hand =p, but I've seen used Das sell with faded letters that weren't used that long.. hmm


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EnzoFX*


Whoops, getting a Das. I don't, unless I'm typing with one hand =p, but I've seen used Das sell with faded letters that weren't used that long.. hmm


I've had my Das for quite a while now and the letters are still there. Yes they have lost a bit of their original whiteness, but they're still there.


----------



## godofdeath

does anyone have a red esc from elitekeyboards/filco keyboards that they would be willing to give me for like 5 bucks?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


does anyone have a red esc from elitekeyboards/filco keyboards that they would be willing to give me for like 5 bucks?


elite keyboard will sell you one for that, but they're on backorder.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


elite keyboard will sell you one for that, but they're on backorder.


got a link? i never saw it on the site unless i really dont read that much


----------



## godofdeath

nvm just saw it 
now im mad since I just ordered the keys for wasd recentlyyyyyyy

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


----------



## thisispatrick

Its not that hard spray painting the keycap red and adding a clear coat for protection btw.


----------



## godofdeath

eh i like a real red not something I sprayed on, plus I want the letters on it


----------



## Tatakai All

Hey need some feedback about this board, is it a cheapy or would it be good for gaming? Not too sure about what the specs are but it's made by Cherry.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...pf_rd_i=507846


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tatakai All* 
Hey need some feedback about this board, is it a cheapy or would it be good for gaming? Not too sure about what the specs are but it's made by Cherry.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...pf_rd_i=507846

http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/ke...1800/index.htm

That's the product page.

IIRC it's MX-Brown switches.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

NO.

Cherry MY switches. It's on the label. They're horrible to type on. Avoid at all costs.


----------



## Tatakai All

So there's MX and MY switches? How confusing.


----------



## Tatakai All

Okay, what would be a good MX Black switch board. Or is it Clear Linear? Maybe both?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tatakai All* 
Okay, what would be a good MX Black switch board. Or is it Clear Linear? Maybe both?

Well the only clear board that I know of is the Deck Legend. I personally love it.

As for MX-Black boards; SteelSeries 6Gv2 is the cheapest IIRC.


----------



## EnzoFX

The one thing I forgot to get input on: Wrist/Palm rests.

Getting the Das, I've used the palm rest attachment on my kb for years, will it be a big adjustment going to no rest? Right now I'm hoping it won't be a big diff since the Das looks thinner than my current one, and has no excess bulk below the keys.... Seems like most mechanical don't have any. Anyone go from a rest to none with these?


----------



## W4LNUT5

My old eclipse had a wrist rest, and my Deck does not. It was a slight adjustment at first, but so was everything else about the keyboard so it didn't much matter.


----------



## Tator Tot

I've had the same gel-wrist rest for years now. Those are the best to get over any plastic crap.

Especially since they get a form to your wrists after you type for awhile. It's a perfect feel.


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I've had the same gel-wrist rest for years now. Those are the best to get over any plastic crap.

Especially since they get a form to your wrists after you type for awhile. It's a perfect feel.

Where do you get them and what type or brand?


----------



## Tator Tot

Anywhere, I have one like this.

I'd suggest going to stores to check out the different styles. As Office Max, Best Buy, ect all have different models on the floor.

Like there are gel ones with a leather top instead of cloth like mine. Or they make memory foam ones.

I can say that Gel & Cloth is my favorite. Doesn't get hot from continuous use. Durrable. Looks nice. Easy to clean.


----------



## Tatakai All

Thanks!


----------



## Tator Tot

No prob


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tatakai All* 
So there's MX and MY switches? How confusing.

There's also ML switches. And Cherry makes their own rubber domes and scissor switches too.

That's nothing compared the arcane mastery required to understand the different types of Alps switch...


----------



## thiru

Does anyone know of a website that sells the cheaper mechanical keyboards in Europe?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Does anyone know of a website that sells the cheaper mechanical keyboards in Europe?

getdigital.de
keyboardco.com


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
getdigital.de
keyboardco.com

Thanks!

What I meant was that I'm looking for the cheaper keyboard models, not necessarily cheap websites. All I could find were 100+ euro models like Das or Filco keyboards on getidigital.de. Looks like keyboardco.com has some cheaper G80 Cherry's though


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Thanks!

What I meant was that I'm looking for the cheaper keyboard models, not necessarily cheap websites. All I could find were 100+ euro models like Das or Filco keyboards on getidigital.de. Looks like keyboardco.com has some cheaper G80 Cherry's though









Best you can do is browse those sites and see what they have probably, unless you want to find some boards on ebay or something.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Best you can do is browse those sites and see what they have probably, unless you want to find some boards on ebay or something.

Yeah I found a G80 that I like, it has a US layout (UK/European layouts are weird... left shift key is twice as small so I keep hittin "/" by accident), but it's still more than 100 euro









I'm keeping an eye on ebay. Does anyone know which switch a Cherry G80-1861 uses? and what does "rackable" mean?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yeah I found a G80 that I like, it has a US layout (UK/European layouts are weird... left shift key is twice as small so I keep hittin "/" by accident), but it's still more than 100 euro









I'm keeping an eye on ebay. Does anyone know which switch a Cherry G80-1861 uses? and what does "rackable" mean?

do you have the eBay ad?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
do you have the eBay ad?

Actually never mind that one, it doesn't have Windows keys.
Here the picture looks like a US-type layout (by that I mean it has a big left shift key), but the description says DE (German), which usually means it has a small shift key.

CHERRY G80-3000LPCDE-2 means it has black Cherry switches right?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Actually never mind that one, it doesn't have Windows keys.
Here the picture looks like a US-type layout (by that I mean it has a big left shift key), but the description says DE (German), which usually means it has a small shift key.

CHERRY G80-3000LPCDE-2 means it has black Cherry switches right?

yes I am pretty sure they are Cherry MX Black Linear. the picture is just a promotional picture a lot of eBay sellers use them. DE would be the layout.

when they say rackable I think it was designed for a server.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
yes I am pretty sure they are Cherry MX Black Linear. the picture is just a promotional picture a lot of eBay sellers use them. DE would be the layout.

when they say rackable I think it was designed for a server.

That sucks, I can deal with not having QWERTY but the small shift key gets me every time on my French keyboard









Thanks. Will have to look some more later. For some reason only Germans sell mechanical keyboards on ebay.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EnzoFX* 
The one thing I forgot to get input on: Wrist/Palm rests.

Getting the Das, I've used the palm rest attachment on my kb for years, will it be a big adjustment going to no rest? Right now I'm hoping it won't be a big diff since the Das looks thinner than my current one, and has no excess bulk below the keys.... Seems like most mechanical don't have any. Anyone go from a rest to none with these?

I've been typing by hovering my wrists above my keyboard a tiny bit. I used to have a wrist rest but decided that it wasn't a big deal. When I play games such as FPS' where I usually bottom out the keys, I just rest my wrist on my desk.


----------



## lmnop

3M Silicone Wrist Rest. it's leatherette with silicone and a metal base.

the one elitekeyboards sells is leather with foam and a metal base but it can cost up to three times as much depending on where you buy the 3M Silicone Wrist Rest.


----------



## thisispatrick

I actually have that wrist rest for another keyboard. Its comfy indeed!


----------



## lmnop

4+ Deck 82 Toxic available on eBay.


















4x Deck 82 Toxic for Buy $99 /ea here.

1x Deck 82 Toxic for Bid starting at $32 here.

1x Deck 82 Toxic for Bid starting at $36 here.

if you don't like the Font or wish to Modify it. Performance-PCS sells 2 Piece Blank PBT Keycaps for $21 and Deck sells casings for $15 /ea.


----------



## thisispatrick

Oh god I want a Deck all of a sudden now rofl.


----------



## lmnop

if they are all in that condition it's the best I have seen. every couple months a TG3 82 is posted on eBay and a bit beat up. good buy especially if you can get one for under $75. maybe you have a younger sibling, another computer or want another keyboard to add to your collection.

Deck 82 Toxic has a Small Form Factor and a Layout designed for FPS Games. 7 degree angle. weight is 2lbs. Cherry MX Black Linear switches mounted directly to the PCB. the PCB is reinforced with fiberglass. the Keyboard casing is made out of thick polycarbonate, the bottom of the Keyboard casing is a sheet of aluminum with rubber feet adhered to it. 1 extra LED in the USB Cable. memory to remember last Backlight level. Backlight Control is Fn + 0-7 or Cursor Up-Cursor Down (0=OFF, 1=Lowest, 2=Lower, 3=Low, 4=Med, 5=High, 6=Higher, 7=Highest, Caps Lock=Locks the Status LED indicators).

pics.


----------



## IBuyJunk

I have been looking at this on ebay ... is it a "clicky" keyboard? I can't really tell if it's even mechanical?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cherry-MY-7000-C...Terminals#shId

Also, this one ... I have one similar to it that I got a loooong time ago. What about it? 
http://cgi.ebay.com/Acer-6511-C-Stan...ht_3940wt_1137

I have 2 original Model Ms and a Unicomp and this Acer. I had the on-so-desireable Dell keyboard but it died and I couldn't fix it. Such a shame, too. I got it for $5 with free shipping on ebay haha!


----------



## ch_123

The Chery G81 keyboards have mechanical switches, but they are absolutely terrible. One to miss...


----------



## lmnop

check out the Cherry MY section in the Cherry Switches and Boards wiki at Geekhack.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


if they are all in that condition it's the best I have seen. every couple months a TG3 82 is posted on eBay and a bit beat up. good buy especially if you can get one for under $75. maybe you have a younger sibling, another computer or want another keyboard to add to your collection.

Deck 82 Toxic has a Small Form Factor and a Layout designed for FPS Games. 7 degree angle. weight is 2lbs. Cherry MX Black Linear switches mounted directly to the PCB. the Keyboard casing is made out of Fiber Glass, the bottom of the Keyboard casing is a sheet of aluminum with rubber feet adhered to it. 1 extra LED in the USB Cable. memory to remember last Backlight level. Backlight Control is Fn + 0-7 or Cursor Up-Cursor Down (0=OFF, 1=Lowest, 2=Lower, 3=Low, 4=Med, 5=High, 6=Higher, 7=Highest, Caps Lock=Locks the Status LED indicators).


Haha I'm the only child and since I'm a college student money is kind of hard to come by







I already bought a Das haha. I guess I'll just keep an eye on it ^^


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Haha I'm the only child and since I'm a college student money is kind of hard to come by







I already bought a Das haha. I guess I'll just keep an eye on it ^^

they will probably be there for a while.


----------



## Kamakazi

Hmmm, those Deck's are tempting. Might throw some bids on the two but I am sure I will get outbid.


----------



## sefwe

i have some older keyboard from the stone age, which is mechanical. And the problem with it is - it is SLOW to press. Not really noticeable with just one button, but try a key sequence and youll immediately notice that it can never be as fast as a membrane, and consequentially you will never move as fast as someone with a membrane keyboard. Full nkey rollover or not.


----------



## lmnop

take a picture


----------



## sefwe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


take a picture


Me? dont have access right now, here is one from the internet.









state of the art lol


----------



## lmnop

I think ch can handle this one.


----------



## lmnop

this is what ch does to people who challenge his intellect.


----------



## sefwe

bah further poking through internet pics showed that it is probably a membrane keyboard too. Gotta find it and disassemble the thing. So, damn, my above post can by ignored and it was just a senile keyboard, or something.


----------



## lmnop

what's wrong with you? it's a IBM Model M White Label.


----------



## ch_123

Since when did I become a meme? =P

sefwe - is this keyboard you have definitely an IBM? There are lots of keyboards out there that look exactly like those IBM Model Ms, but are of far inferior quality.

Model M keys are nice and snappy, even on old ones in poor condition.


----------



## Turbonerd

I want to buy Steelseries 6gv2. Noone sells it on ebay, and the shipping from steelseries is expensive. Any suggestions? EU shops only please.


----------



## lmnop

I didn't even have a coloured monitor I had one of those EGA? 14 or 15" Green.


----------



## IBuyJunk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
The Chery G81 keyboards have mechanical switches, but they are absolutely terrible. One to miss...

Horrible in which aspect?


----------



## Jarmel

I'm wondering which is the best keyboard for me as I do a lot of typing and gaming. I do need it quiet though as I use open air headphones. I'm looking at Das and Deck but it seems neither are really what I'm looking for.


----------



## Scottery

So my Saitek Eclipse recently stopped working properly and I need a new keyboard.
I think a good mechanical keyboard will be a good investment because it will last me a long time.
I have around $100CAD to spend and have found this Das Model S Professional.
This keyboard has Mx blues right?
Is it worth $20 more for the Silent version which I think has Mx Browns?
Also is there a better deal in Canada for a good mechanical key board?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jarmel* 
I'm wondering which is the best keyboard for me as I do a lot of typing and gaming. I do need it quiet though as I use open air headphones. I'm looking at Das and Deck but it seems neither are really what I'm looking for.

How so? Das has the quiet models?


----------



## Jarmel

Oops I thought the Silent model used blacks. So that would be pretty much the best keyboard I can get that would fit my needs?

I also just realized that the Das doesn't have any backlight which is kinda necessary for me as I do a lot of gaming and typing in the dark.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IBuyJunk* 
Horrible in which aspect?

In terms of typing feel.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Cherry MY switches are some of the worst feeling switches ever made. Imagine typing on thick, stiff, mud. Their only saving grace is that they're probably the longest-lived switch, up there with buckling springs, which makes them popular for point-of-sale applications. But that doesn't excuse their being horrible to type on. And a lot of ebay sellers will try to make their MY boards out to be MX boards, without actually saying it outright.


----------



## sefwe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Since when did I become a meme? =P

sefwe - is this keyboard you have definitely an IBM? There are lots of keyboards out there that look exactly like those IBM Model Ms, but are of far inferior quality.

Model M keys are nice and snappy, even on old ones in poor condition.

Its the exact picture, same cable same logo same color. Bah looks like im gonna find that thing and dissect it after all.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jarmel* 
Oops I thought the Silent model used blacks. So that would be pretty much the best keyboard I can get that would fit my needs?

I also just realized that the Das doesn't have any backlight which is kinda necessary for me as I do a lot of gaming and typing in the dark.

Well maybe you would like Razer's new Black Widow mechanical keyboards? They are cherry blue switches though.


----------



## godofdeath

Here are some pics of DAS with ocn key and WASD purple ones from elitekeyboards


----------



## thisispatrick

Hm they don't look that bad. Wish they had another color aside from purple though.


----------



## lmnop

lavender


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


lavender










Fine. Lavender.


----------



## runeazn

Where can u get those ocn esc key in Europe?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *runeazn*


Where can u get those ocn esc key in Europe?


PM tankguys and they will do it.


----------



## godofdeath

i wish there was a black and 2x blue ocn key


----------



## lmnop

god you should take a look at clickclack's thread over at geekhack.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


god you should take a look at clickclack's thread over at geekhack.


[x] want


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*


[x] want


pm clickclack.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


god you should take a look at clickclack's thread over at geekhack.


yea was looking at the thread, didnt bother to make an acct yet on their forums


----------



## godofdeath

kk just pmed him asking for a titanium low profile skull to test out, hopefully I can


----------



## webwit

Mmm..


----------



## lmnop

your ergo picture is the best.


----------



## godofdeath

they all look so nice and clean and new


----------



## lmnop

I got bored one night and guessed how much each keyboard was worth based on retail or street value. was I close?


----------



## webwit

Guess who won the mislabelled _Touchworks Fingerstream_..


----------



## lmnop

lol that is a museum piece. is it the most expensive keyboard you own?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


lol that is a museum piece. is it the most expensive keyboard you own?


It says winning bid $26.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


It says winning bid $26.


he bought it for $26 it's a $1500 keyboard.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



NOTE: THIS KEYBOARD IS DISCONTINUED. WE HAVE ONE UNIT IN OUR MUSEUM OF OBSOLETE AND ABANDONED TECHNOLOGIES WHICH WE WILL ACCEPT BIDS ON, OUR LAST TWO NEW UNOPENED UNITS SOLD FOR *OVER $1500* US EACH. THE ONE IN OUR MUSEUM IS A SILVER QWERTY UNIT FROM THE LAST PRODUCTION RUN OF FINGERWORKS.


see.


----------



## Crazy9000

That's for an unopened one though, it can make a drastic difference in price.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


That's for an unopened one though, it can make a drastic difference in price.


that keyboard is still worth a lot even used. I think the original MSRP was $300+.


----------



## webwit

It's hard to say what you get for a Touchstream on ebay..I've seen them go between $400 and $2010.. the real high pricing might be over.


----------



## frickfrock999

Why on earth is that keyboard worth $1500?
Does it have switches made of ostrich necks and freeze dried bits of Walt Disney's mustache?


----------



## lmnop

from 2007

Quote:



Since I've been tracking this, I don't believe a TouchStream has ever sold for less than something on the order of $650. About three weeks ago, one sold for $669 and another sold for $689, both from the same seller. I'm not sure I would have entrusted that kind of dough to this seller, because her descriptions were blatantly lifted verbatim from other TouchStream listings on eBay.

Last weekend, a TouchStream LP sold for $1,075.

This past week, three TouchStream LPs were listed, all with bidding ending this weekend. The first of them sold for $1,226.04 last night. The second one ended this morning with a high bid of over $1,800!! But for some reason this one was delisted or canceled soon after the end of bidding, so I don't know what happened there. The third one sold for $1,525.

Entering into the weekend, all three listings had the same high bidder. If I remember correctly, his high bids were a little over $500 for two of the listings, and something like $330 for the third one. But this was before the bidding got serious. I'm pretty sure he was the one who won the third listing, the one with a winning bid of $1,525.


http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=3940

hold on to it!


----------



## webwit

Two reasons, one is some people can't operate without it because of RSI. If you make a living out of computers and because they stopped producing, you have a problem. That caused a run on the few available on ebay. Second is Asian keyboard collectors.


----------



## lmnop

information here.


----------



## webwit

It's like the new Apple touch pad (who bought them, this is the origin of Apple's multi-touch tech), but then with integrated keyboard.


----------



## lmnop

have you seen the smartfish?


----------



## webwit

It's a scam similar to men selling fake medicine in the old wild west.


----------



## lmnop

what about the orbiTouch?


----------



## webwit

I don't know about the orbiTouch. It seemed to me like a datahand with only two huge keys instead of 10. Must be slow having only two keys. That's why I'll only get one if I bump into it cheaply - just for novelty value.


----------



## lmnop

pretty expensive. $500.


----------



## webwit

I'll swap my latest _Touchworks_ for three of them


----------



## lmnop

here is another that isn't cheap the ErgoComfort. $450. I know you must of seen this one before.


----------



## webwit

I can predict this game for the next few steps







If I don't have it it's because I don't fancy it, and that's probably because there is something wrong with it.

What's wrong with the ErgoComfort is that is has plain rubber dome switches, hardly ergonomic (you are forced to bottom out) nor the quality one expects for that price. Like an expensive car with an engine from a cheap chinese mass production car. Strange..


----------



## lmnop

you do own most radical, ergonomic keyboards I have seen. there always has to be someone like you. makes me smile when I see your collection.


----------



## webwit

They fascinate me


----------



## lmnop

do you have a favourite?


----------



## webwit

I'll leave you with this for now:
If this was a 100m sprint, there would be a clear winner, humiliating the rest..


----------



## lmnop

aww you didn't let me down. thought you were going to say something cliche like the Model M.


----------



## Crazy9000

I think Christine is in love.


----------



## lmnop

my heart belongs to Spock everyone knows that.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


I'll leave you with this for now:
If this was a 100m sprint, there would be a clear winner, humiliating the rest..











Needs a full wall of monitors, you turning around, "Mr. Anderson..."


----------



## airplaneman

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Needs a full wall of monitors, you turning around, "Mr. Anderson..."


Lol! FTW.


----------



## lmnop

remember that movie lawnmower man? that is what it reminds me of.


----------



## Intense

looking for an ABS M1 :/


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *webwit* 
I'll leave you with this for now:
If this was a 100m sprint, there would be a clear winner, humiliating the rest..










i don't know what this is but it looks awesome.

how many wpm?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *InTeNsE* 
looking for an ABS M1 :/

good luck. ABS M1 is a pretty mediocre keyboard and when ranked against other Alps keyboards it's pitiful. I am not sure why there is so much interest in it all of a sudden. there are better Alps keyboards on eBay like the Northgate Omnikey. I think you would be much happier with that.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
i don't know what this is but it looks awesome.

how many wpm?

datachair.


----------



## ripster

Nice pic WW!

I think Australians and South Americans would like it better though.


----------



## lmnop

rip are futaba switches any good?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=200509937575


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
good luck. ABS M1 is a pretty mediocre keyboard and when ranked against other Alps keyboards it's pitiful. I am not sure why there is so much interest in it all of a sudden. there are better Alps keyboards on eBay like the Northgate Omnikey. I think you would be much happier with that.

cheap intro that a lot of people use and tjharlow mentioned it?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
cheap intro that a lot of people use and tjharlow mentioned it?

eh


----------



## lmnop

I don't think it's necessary to repeat what I and others already know unless he really wants to know. I don't want to hurt peoples feelings. I can't think of anything good to say about the ABS M1. I think by telling him it's not a good keyboard he gets the point.

I don't know who tjharlow is but I like him


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poketama* 
Well in the case of the XArmor someone said you can't doubletap keys, what's the deal behind that? I'm sure it would be annoying using WASD. The XArmor seems to just be a routethrough hub though, which would make it largely useless in using ports if they're just going to plug into the back.

The thing about double-tapping with the Cherry MX Blues is that the actuation point is further down in the key travel than the reset/release point. In other words, as the key is being released upward in slow-motion, the point at which it stops sending the key signal is vertically higher than the point at which it actuates (during the downward key travel). So for those who are professional gamers (or just extremely competitive), this can be enough of a problem that they would rather just use a rubber dome keyboard.

But for casual gamers like me, I just hit the key two times in a row to double-tap: I'm not precise, and I don't care about it; I just want to have fun.









For double-tapping, there are many gamers who don't mind the Cherry MX Blues. Some actually even _prefer_ them!

So, I really believe that it's something to evaluate: if you do any double-tapping in your games, then pay attention to whether or not you let the key come all the way back up or not. I mean, if you are (or if you're just quickly hitting the key two times in a row), then the Cherry MX Blues are an option to consider and should not be excluded.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sefwe* 
i have some older keyboard from the stone age, which is mechanical. And the problem with it is - it is SLOW to press. Not really noticeable with just one button, but try a key sequence and youll immediately notice that it can never be as fast as a membrane, and consequentially you will never move as fast as someone with a membrane keyboard. Full nkey rollover or not.

Does it make a sound that is similar to some of the videos you see in these YouTube search results?

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...m+model+m&aq=f

If so, then it's the Model M.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sefwe* 
bah further poking through internet pics showed that it is probably a membrane keyboard too. Gotta find it and disassemble the thing. So, damn, my above post can by ignored and it was just a senile keyboard, or something.

Actually, there's a distinction to be made between "mechanical" and "rubber domes". The IBM Model M is a mechanical keyboard even though it uses a membrane (which is different from a rubber dome sheet).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Scottery* 
So my Saitek Eclipse recently stopped working properly and I need a new keyboard.
I think a good mechanical keyboard will be a good investment because it will last me a long time.
I have around $100CAD to spend and have found this Das Model S Professional.
This keyboard has Mx blues right?
Is it worth $20 more for the Silent version which I think has Mx Browns?
Also is there a better deal in Canada for a good mechanical key board?

It certainly does have the MX Blues.

But whether you go with the Blues or Browns can depend mostly on you.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Does it make a sound that is similar to some of the videos you see in these YouTube search results?

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...m+model+m&aq=f

If so, then it's the Model M

Or just read the label on the back, it's more accurate =P


----------



## IBuyJunk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
In terms of typing feel.

Too hard?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Cherry MY switches are some of the worst feeling switches ever made. Imagine typing on thick, stiff, mud. Their only saving grace is that they're probably the longest-lived switch, up there with buckling springs, which makes them popular for point-of-sale applications. But that doesn't excuse their being horrible to type on. And a lot of ebay sellers will try to make their MY boards out to be MX boards, without actually saying it outright.

The G81 feels like buckling spring?


----------



## ch_123

Mushy and linear.

Quote:

The G81 feels like buckling spring?
No.


----------



## gordesky1

I don't think there any thing wrong with the abs m1, Mine is still going strong after 2months of heavy gaming with no problems at all, Except some key wear shinyness but every keyboard does that when my hands get on it for some reason, But the letter still look like new!

Too me its built like a tank.

Sure it doesn't have that great key rollover, But it does 4 keys on the gaming keys i need and sometimes 6 so thats fine for me. And i play tons of fps and mmos and rpgs you name it.

But again this is my first mech and i know theres better, But too me the abs m1 is a great starter for a first time mech newb. I picked it over the dell 101 forgot the name.. lol But it wasint loud enough for me.

I just love the sound of the abs m1 pretty much what made me bought it is from watching youtube videos and i like the abs m1 the best.

I have the razer black widow preorderd so i will see what i will like better, Hopefully the black widow. But it just doesn't sound as loud as my m1...


----------



## lmnop

one of the Deck 82 had 4 bids overnight. $52 6 hours left. other one is $36 3 days left.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
one of the Deck 82 had 4 bids overnight. $52 6 hours left. other one is $36 3 days left.

I've been watching ^^


----------



## lmnop

what is your budget?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
what is your budget?

As of now I'm not even sure. I already have a Das. I've just been eying new things now. lol


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
As of now I'm not even sure. I already have a Das. I've just been eying new things now. lol

buy a KvM switch and keep both of them on your Desk. you can type on the Das Model S and game on the Deck 82.

Small Form Factor for the win.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
one of the Deck 82 had 4 bids overnight. $52 6 hours left. other one is $36 3 days left.

Sssshhhhh.

I am the guy at $52 so be quiet about it


----------



## thisispatrick

Heh, I think I'll reconsider buying this for now. I'm more interested in the full size ones. Apparently I use the number pad a lot. Time to look for a part time job :|


----------



## lmnop

you broke my heart Fredo! suit yourself


----------



## Jarmel

Just ordered a Deck Legend. I would still have preferred a keyboard with cherry brown(and backlit)but it seems that those really don't exist. So if it's annoying to type on then I'll just return it.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jarmel* 
Just ordered a Deck Legend. I would still have preferred a keyboard with cherry brown(and backlit)but it seems that those really don't exist. So if it's annoying to type on then I'll just return it.

If you got a Tactile model, then it's gonna feel a lot like Browns, only requiring more force.


----------



## Crazy9000

Did you get a tactile version? Those are closer to browns.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Did you get a tactile version? Those are closer to browns.

yep, damn close. Just a bit heavier actuation. Pretty much the same tactile feel otherwise.

I don't really notice the heavier actuation (it's not a huge increase. only 10g)


----------



## Jarmel

Indeed I did. I wish they had a toxic tactile version but alas. Also the reason I wanted the Browns was because it required less force than the Clears.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jarmel* 
Just ordered a Deck Legend. I would still have preferred a keyboard with cherry brown(and backlit)but it seems that those really don't exist. So if it's annoying to type on then I'll just return it.

you shoulda wait for www.Xarmor-usa.com to release their brown switches.
probably pretty soon.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gordesky1* 
I don't think there any thing wrong with the abs m1, Mine is still going strong after 2months of heavy gaming with no problems at all, Except some key wear shinyness but every keyboard does that when my hands get on it for some reason, But the letter still look like new!

Too me its built like a tank.

Sure it doesn't have that great key rollover, But it does 4 keys on the gaming keys i need and sometimes 6 so thats fine for me. And i play tons of fps and mmos and rpgs you name it.

But again this is my first mech and i know theres better, But too me the abs m1 is a great starter for a first time mech newb. I picked it over the dell 101 forgot the name.. lol But it wasint loud enough for me.

I just love the sound of the abs m1 pretty much what made me bought it is from watching youtube videos and i like the abs m1 the best.

I have the razer black widow preorderd so i will see what i will like better, Hopefully the black widow. But it just doesn't sound as loud as my m1...

If you want a loud keyboard, then try a keyboard with the Buckling Springs such as the IBM Model M, or Unicomp Customizer 104 or SpaceSaver 104.


----------



## Kamakazi

Well I didn't get the Deck.

My Max Bid was $80 and it went for $81.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kamakazi* 
Well I didn't get the Deck.

My Max Bid was $80 and it went for $81.

Snipe this one then. You know what to expect now. lol

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Side note: Anyone ever heard of a Unicomp Smar Trex Model M? I've been looking at one for $29.64 shipped

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=120610390944


----------



## KipH

Thats a phone, not a keyboard









What switches do you figure?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Side note: Anyone ever heard of a Unicomp Smar Trex Model M? I've been looking at one for $29.64 shipped

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=120610390944

Rubber domes, unfortunately.

I'd advise looking for Unicomp Customizers and/or Spacesavers, usually pretty cheap and great quality.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Rubber domes, unfortunately.

I'd advise looking for Unicomp Customizers and/or Spacesavers, usually pretty cheap and great quality.

I figured it would be rubber dome when I saw the date was 1999. I just happened to do a unicomp search on ebay it came up and was curious. Thx


----------



## ch_123

Those folks were making buckling springs since their company was formed in 1996... but in this case, it is in fact a rubber dome keyboard. Or so some unfortunate people on Geekhack found out the hard way... =P


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Those folks were making buckling springs since their company was formed in 1996... but in this case, it is in fact a rubber dome keyboard. Or so some unfortunate people on Geekhack found out the hard way... =P

I found the thread on geekhack with a google search about that after I found the keyboard, but for some reason it wouldn't load. I think the site was down or something.


----------



## ch_123

Yeah, Geekhack has been spazzing out big time today. Problems with the server and the database apparently.


----------



## godofdeath

ok geekhack is down, i was just about to ask lol


----------



## lmnop

another mechanical keyboard on the horizon.

Zowie Celeritas _latin word for speed_

Function Key (R-Windows)
Media Keys (F1-6)
Repeat Rate Adjustment (F9-12) old feature. Northgate Omnikey has it. I am pretty sure it alters the bounce time. the settings on the Zowie Celeritas are 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x.
Unknown Cherry MX switch
rubber adhesive feet
laser etched keycaps
LED on bottom change colours
keep in mind this was unveiled at Gamescom in Germany so the layout is EU not US.


































































video preview below.


----------



## ch_123

I like the cunning anti wrist-rest device mounted at the front.


----------



## lmnop

for some reason the R-Shift Key is blank in the pictures, but in the video preview it's not.


----------



## ch_123

Could be a prototype.


----------



## lmnop

it is.

I wish they used up all the F Keys like this.

F1=Play/Pause, F2=Stop, F3=Vol Up, F4=Vol Down, F5=Mute, F6=Forward, F7=Back, F8=Toggle 1x/2x Repeat Rate, F9=Power, F10=Sleep, F11=Wake, F12=L-Windows Lock

and 2 extra long rubber feet, 2 tilt feet.

but I didn't design it *sniffle*


----------



## Phaedrus2129

So is it "another freaking Costar board" or "another freaking iOne board"?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


So is it "another freaking Costar board" or "another freaking iOne board"?


I think it's the same OEM for i-Rocks/Thermaltake.


----------



## Intense

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I don't think it's necessary to repeat what I and others already know unless he really wants to know. I don't want to hurt peoples feelings. I can't think of anything good to say about the ABS M1. I think by telling him it's not a good keyboard he gets the point.

I don't know who tjharlow is but I like him

















I like it a lot, my friend has one and i love the way it types and it feels like it has really strong construction to me, he's slammed it down on a few bugs before... and i like really clicky keyboards


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *InTeNsE* 







I like it a lot, my friend has one and i love the way it types and it feels like it has really strong construction to me, he's slammed it down on a few bugs before... and i like really clicky keyboards









***kas in the ABS M1 are tactile, non-clicky.


----------



## Intense

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
***kas in the ABS M1 are tactile, non-clicky.

well its the clicking from the parts hitting each other


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *InTeNsE*


well its the clicking from the parts hitting each other


You mean bottoming out?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


but I didn't design it *sniffle*










We all know what would have happened if I designed it -


----------



## Kamakazi

So in terms of compact mechanicals. Is it basically just the Deck 82 and the Happy Hacker?

Not seeing many other choices, other than the Filco tenkeyless which I am not really counting.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


We all know what would have happened if I designed it -











lol!


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


So in terms of compact mechanicals. Is it basically just the Deck 82 and the Happy Hacker?

Not seeing many other choices, other than the Filco tenkeyless which I am not really counting.


DSI Modular Mac but it has a standard matrix and it's more expensive than the Deck 82.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


So in terms of compact mechanicals. Is it basically just the Deck 82 and the Happy Hacker?

Not seeing many other choices, other than the Filco tenkeyless which I am not really counting.


There are a lot of different models obviously.
One of my favorites: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=10112
A thread on there about compact ones: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=11288


----------



## Phaedrus2129

And of course the tenkeyless Filcos and the rare IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard. And the Cherry G84-4100 and related keyboards.


----------



## ch_123

The SSK isn't rare, just bloody expensive.

An amazing keyboard, have been using it for Starcraft 2 for the past two weeks =P


----------



## Kamakazi

Thanks for the info guys. Don't really see anything that trips my trigger like the Deck 82.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


So in terms of compact mechanicals. Is it basically just the Deck 82 and the Happy Hacker?

Not seeing many other choices, other than the Filco tenkeyless which I am not really counting.


SIIG Minitouch also.

But DO NOT buy a Minitouch *Plus*. It's a domer


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *InTeNsE*









I like it a lot, my friend has one and i love the way it types and it feels like it has really strong construction to me, he's slammed it down on a few bugs before... and i like really clicky keyboards










But the switches used in the ABS M1 aren't clicky; they're only tactile.

The term "clicky" refers to the sound that a switch makes, and it is independent of any other sound heard while typing. Any other sound heard while typing is just called "clacky" which happens when bottoming out the keys. This is the exact sound you're referring to.

In other words, the ABS M1 is a tactile, but non-clicky keyboard. But make no mistake about it: almost all mechanical keyboards are capable of being clacky like the ABS M1.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


almost all mechanical keyboards are capable of being clacky like the ABS M1.


As far as I know, they all should be "clacky". Rubber domes aren't clacky only because they tend to have a membrane of rubber, so the keys hit that and don't clack.


----------



## ch_123

Topres are quite clacky. That's probably because of the springs, and the fact that it uses a PCB instead of a membrane.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Topres are quite clacky. That's probably because of the springs, and the fact that it uses a PCB instead of a membrane.

They have a housing over the rubber, which is probably what you hear the key hitting if you bottom out.


----------



## ch_123

That it would be... If you press the key quietly there is no noise from them.


----------



## Marin

Yeah, Crazy's right.


----------



## gordesky1

I guess what InTeNsE means about the abs m1 is he like the sound it does for the alps switch s, Even if you tap them lightly and not bottom out theres still a nice loud clack. Like when you leave the key go from the caps making a clack when they rise up









But im sure he problee knew about the abs m1 not be clicking but it does make sound really loud noise.

Before i bought mine i looked at videos of each keyboard and the abs m1, And i picked the abs m1 for the sound it makes lol

I just hope i didn't make a mistake of getting the razer black window and i still would like the abs m1 better lol

But ya i also love the abs m1.


----------



## WhiteRice

Which cherry switch would be most comparable to the abs m1?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WhiteRice* 
Which cherry switch would be most comparable to the abs m1?

I do believe MX Blacks or MX Clears

MX Blacks have the same stiff feel, but not tactile. Though i enjoy them more than the black Alps.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I do believe Black Alps would be.

That's not a Cherry switch.









Perhaps MX clears.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
That's not a Cherry switch.









Perhaps MX clears.

I edited my post; that totally went brain fart on me. I had the right idea going, but just dropped the ball entirely.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
That's not a Cherry switch.









Perhaps MX clears.

Eh, I own a Deck with Clears and an M1, and they're nothing alike. Those ***kas bottom out as soon as you pass the tactile point. I don't believe the M1's ***kas are like any Cherry switch out there based on feel. On paper I believe the force is similar, but that's about it. The sad part about the M1 is the switches hardly compare to that of a real alps switch (from what I'm told. never tried real alps, but I want to)


----------



## Tator Tot

The ***ka's don't have smooth travel (feel very rough) and yeah they're only alike on paper.

Real Alps like my Dell AT101W are MUCH better. The Alps Strongman's of the Matias were also MUCH better.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
As far as I know, they all should be "clacky". Rubber domes aren't clacky only because they tend to have a membrane of rubber, so the keys hit that and don't clack.

I got quite a clacky sound from bottoming out on this rubber dome keyboard, so I now have to say that it depends on the keyboard (this isn't my picture):










Quote:


Originally Posted by *gordesky1* 
I guess what InTeNsE means about the abs m1 is he like the sound it does for the alps switch s, Even if you tap them lightly and not bottom out theres still a nice loud clack. Like when you leave the key go from the caps making a clack when they rise up









Whoa, for some reason I completely forgot about this!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gordesky1* 
But im sure he problee knew about the abs m1 not be clicking but it does make sound really loud noise.

Before i bought mine i looked at videos of each keyboard and the abs m1, And i picked the abs m1 for the sound it makes lol

I have to admit, I practically did the same thing which is how I ended up with the Tactile Click.







But I also considered the feel (which I suppose might be obvious hehe).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gordesky1* 
I just hope i didn't make a mistake of getting the razer black window and i still would like the abs m1 better lol

But ya i also love the abs m1.

I have a feeling you'll like the Black Widow more than the ABS M1 even though the Black Widow's OEM is iOne.


----------



## sefwe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Actually, there's a distinction to be made between "mechanical" and "rubber domes". The IBM Model M is a mechanical keyboard even though it uses a membrane (which is different from a rubber dome sheet).


Ah thanks. I just run on some page listing IBM's keyboards and they all used the word membrane. Made me confused, since i wasnt exactly interested, after making initial decision whether to keep it, or get a new one. Gave it away to some wanting soul, for some reason he was interested.







The reduced keyway made a difference though, especially with double click(dodging in UT++, and like a base for every trick).

Makes me wonder why it isnt yet picked up as the latest BUZZword. like. "Get our keyboard, save 10ms!" Or "Overclock your keyboard - hack off the buttons!"


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I got quite a clacky sound from bottoming out on this rubber dome keyboard, so I now have to say that it depends on the keyboard (this isn't my picture):


Usually you will have a top hard plastic sheet that the keys pop on to, that has a bit cut out to expose the membrane above the key. Depending on how the board is designed, you will get some hitting of the key against that plastic. Usually the plastic is thin though, and has a layer of rubber (the rubber membrane) under it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sefwe*


Ah thanks. I just run on some page listing IBM's keyboards and they all used the word membrane. Made me confused, since i wasnt exactly interested, after making initial decision whether to keep it, or get a new one. Gave it away to some wanting soul, for some reason he was interested.







The reduced keyway made a difference though, especially with double click(dodging in UT++, and like a base for every trick).

Makes me wonder why it isnt yet picked up as the latest BUZZword. like. "Get our keyboard, save 10ms!" Or "Overclock your keyboard - hack off the buttons!"


You're welcome! But I forgot to say that the very first post of this thread (literally, Post #1) explains it the best - beginning at the section entitled "Rubber Dome". It explains how with rubber dome keyboards, there's a rubber sheet on top of a plastic membrane sheet which has traces that don't touch each other until a key is pressed. So when a key is pressed down, the little black pad on the rubber sheet (underneath each key, up inside the rubber domes) makes contact with the contact area on the membrane sheet which completes the circuit. So here's a picture to illustrate it:










So now the IBM Model M is considered to be a Membrane board because it has a plastic-like membrane similar to the one underneath the sheet of rubber in a rubber dome keyboard. In the animating image below, it's possible to see where contact is made once the spring buckles:










When it buckles, that little black lever at the bottom of the spring is pushed down and makes contact with the membrane.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Usually you will have a top hard plastic sheet that the keys pop on to, that has a bit cut out to expose the membrane above the key. Depending on how the board is designed, you will get some hitting of the key against that plastic. Usually the plastic is thin though, and has a layer of rubber (the rubber membrane) under it.


Yep! This is exactly how that keyboard is made.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



When it buckles, that little black lever at the bottom of the spring is pushed down and makes contact with the membrane.


It's a bit more elaborate than that. In a rubber dome keyboard, the rows and columns that the keyboard controller scans are on one sheet, and are seperated at the contact point. On the Model M (and a lot of other mechanical membrane switches and some early non-mechanical ones) the contacts are on separate sheets, and the appropriate contacts face each other, seperated by a third sheet that goes in between them. When the hammer strikes down, it hits into the contact on the top sheet which mashes them onto the one on the bottom sheet.

If you pull a key off a Model M and peer down, all you will see is black. That's because they have the whole thing covered by a sheet of rubber. Thus Model Ms have a good deal more spill resistance than a rubber dome keyboard if something manages to spill into the membrane.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


It's a bit more elaborate than that. In a rubber dome keyboard, the rows and columns that the keyboard controller scans are on one sheet, and are seperated at the contact point. On the Model M (and a lot of other mechanical membrane switches and some early non-mechanical ones) the contacts are on separate sheets, and the appropriate contacts face each other, seperated by a third sheet that goes in between them. When the hammer strikes down, it hits into the contact on the top sheet which mashes them onto the one on the bottom sheet


That is the case with almost all rubber dome keyboards today as well.


----------



## sefwe

Wow you guys are really into keyboards. I admit im scared.


----------



## lmnop

I know it's pathetic.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I know it's pathetic.


Could be worse.

I mean this could be a thread about people loving membrane keyboards.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


Could be worse.

I mean this could be a thread about people loving membrane keyboards.










Shoot me now


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Shoot me now


Only if all your keyboards are going to me in your will.*

*This just proves anything can be brought back around to keyboards in one easy step.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


Only if all your keyboards are going to me in your will.*

*This just proves anything can be brought back around to keyboards in one easy step.


buy the Deck 82 Toxic someone from OCN needs to win this auction to save face.


----------



## thiru

How good is the Black Widow looking right now? I saw the video "review" on youtube and that's it. Any reason not to buy it? because it's a good price for a MX blue switch keyboard and if I preorder it right now, I'll get the US layout (very hard for me to find a US mechanical keyboard here), not sure if I'll be able to order a US keyboard once they have the local French one in stock.

Also is the backlighting the only difference between the Ultimate and the normal one?

Thanks


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


How good is the Black Widow looking right now? I saw the video "review" on youtube and that's it. Any reason not to buy it? because it's a good price for a MX blue switch keyboard and if I preorder it right now, I'll get the US layout (very hard for me to find a US mechanical keyboard here), not sure if I'll be able to order a US keyboard once they have the local French one in stock.

Also is the backlighting the only difference between the Ultimate and the normal one?

Thanks


I would wait until it's released or maybe goes on a sale. I am worried about the keycap wobble.

Blackwidow has no backlighting or multimedia hub.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


buy the Deck 82 Toxic someone from OCN needs to win this auction to save face.


I tried on the first one, and will try on the next one. Perhaps I will win, perhaps I won't.


----------



## kidwolf909

Hello all,

I've been a lurker in this thread for quite some time now. I have wanted a mechanical keyboard for a while, but could never justify the $100+ for a decent keyboard. Well... I still can't justify it, but the urge is really getting to me!









That being said, I'm having trouble deciding between a couple of keyboards.

At this point in time, I use a Logitech Illuminated Slim keyboard (scissor switch) at home to game on and an OEM HP rubber dome keyboard at work. I have never used a mechanical keyboard, so I'm not really sure what I am looking for in one. I really appreciate the back-lighting and the silence of my Logitech and how thin it is. However, the keys lack any sort of feeling. They're kind of mushy, I guess. Most readily comparable to a Dell notebook keyboard.

So in order to retain some of the "silent" aspect of my current keyboard, I was thinking that a Das Professional Silent would be the best compromise of silence and feeling for me. I really like the backlit Deck keyboards, but I absolutely hate the font that they use on their keys (trivial, I suppose).

Any opinions on what I should do?

Also, I hear there is a discount on Das KB's if you're a student. Is this discount better than the current 25% off?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I would wait until it's released or maybe goes on a sale. I am worried about the keycap wobble.

Blackwidow has no backlighting or multimedia hub.


The "Ultimate" has back lighting. Both have media controls and the "Ultimate" has headphone jacks on it.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I would wait until it's released or maybe goes on a sale. I am worried about the keycap wobble.

Blackwidow has no backlighting or multimedia hub.


Thanks, IMO not worth the extra 50.
Wobble because of bad quality?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


I tried on the first one, and will try on the next one. Perhaps I will win, perhaps I won't.


12 bidders. Deck lovers come out of the woodwork.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


12 bidders. Deck lovers come out of the woodwork.


Yeah, and it probably was helped by _somebody_ making a thread on geekhack about it.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Thanks, IMO not worth the extra 50.
Wobble because of bad quality?


the company that manufactured it for Razer made a keyboard called the Adesso MKB-135B.










you can see clearly some of the keycaps are crooked.

now look at the Razer Blackwidow. focus on the R-Alt, J, P keycaps.










bit of a turn off.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kidwolf909*


Hello all,

I've been a lurker in this thread for quite some time now. I have wanted a mechanical keyboard for a while, but could never justify the $100+ for a decent keyboard. Well... I still can't justify it, but the urge is really getting to me!









That being said, I'm having trouble deciding between a couple of keyboards.

At this point in time, I use a Logitech Illuminated Slim keyboard (scissor switch) at home to game on and an OEM HP rubber dome keyboard at work. I have never used a mechanical keyboard, so I'm not really sure what I am looking for in one. I really appreciate the back-lighting and the silence of my Logitech and how thin it is. However, the keys lack any sort of feeling. They're kind of mushy, I guess. Most readily comparable to a Dell notebook keyboard.

So in order to retain some of the "silent" aspect of my current keyboard, I was thinking that a Das Professional Silent would be the best compromise of silence and feeling for me. I really like the backlit Deck keyboards, but I absolutely hate the font that they use on their keys (trivial, I suppose).

Any opinions on what I should do?

Also, I hear there is a discount on Das KB's if you're a student. Is this discount better than the current 25% off?


I'm using the Das currently as I'm typing this and I have to say I really like it. Deck was my alternate choice as I was in your situation a month ago as well. In the end I figured back lighting wasn't all that necessary and went with the Das for a cheaper price.

If you really want an alternate to back lighting, I use a cheap lamp that only uses 1W and it works fine for me :x

As for the discount the student discount is the same amount.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the company that manufactured it for Razer made a keyboard called the Adesso MKB-135B.










you can see clearly some of the keycaps are crooked.

now look at the Razer Blackwidow. focus on the R-Alt, J, P keycaps.










bit of a turn off.


Not only that but if you try to draw a straight line across the keys it is crooked as heck. Nevermind the R-Alt, J, P keycaps, everything looks misaligned in my opinion.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the company that manufactured it for Razer made a keyboard called the Adesso MKB-135B.

[imsg]http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=10394&d=1275074899[/img]

you can see clearly some of the keycaps are crooked.

now look at the Razer Blackwidow. focus on the R-Alt, J, P keycaps.

[imsg]http://i36.tinypic.com/2qwlovl.jpg[/img]

bit of a turn off.


I see... guess I'll wait for feedback then









On another note, I think I already asked this six months ago, but is there a mechanical switch type that feels like a Thinkpad's keyboard? they're scissor switches of course, but they feel and respond way better than other laptop's keyboards or this crappy thin desktop keyboard I'm currently using.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

That's because Adesso doesn't do their own QC, they rely on iOne (the OEM) to do that. XArmor has their own QC department, so their boards all have straight keys and no cold solder joints like the Adesso has.

I presume Razer will have their own QC go over the boards as well.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I see... guess I'll wait for feedback then









On another note, I think I already asked this six months ago, but is there a mechanical switch type that feels like a Thinkpad's keyboard? they're scissor switches of course, but they feel and respond way better than other laptop's keyboards or this crappy thin desktop keyboard I'm currently using.


Compared to my X100e... Not really. ML switches probably come closest, but they have a sticking issue that ruins their otherwise good feel.

Actually I'd posit that it's easiest to compare them to buckling springs. Imagine the Thinkpad key, except rather than traveling 2mm it travels 4mm. And the tactile point is much crisper, and there's no mush on the landing. Plus a click. That's a buckling spring.

Trust me, if you can appreciate Lenovo scissor switches then you can appreciate a mechanical keyswitch.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I see... guess I'll wait for feedback then









On another note, I think I already asked this six months ago, but is there a mechanical switch type that feels like a Thinkpad's keyboard? they're scissor switches of course, but they feel and respond way better than other laptop's keyboards or this crappy thin desktop keyboard I'm currently using.


Cherry ML switches










they have a 3mm travel distance. actuation point is 1.5mm @ 52cN. tactile, non-clicky.

Optimus Maximus
Cherry G84-4100
Cherry G84-4700
Devlin Spacesaver


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Cherry ML switches










they have a 3mm travel distance. actuation point is 1.5mm @ 52cN. tactile, non-clicky.

*Optimus Maximus*
Cherry G84-4100
Cherry G84-4700
Devlin Spacesaver










If you can afford that.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*









If you can afford that.


Art Lebedev has a new one called the Optimus Polaris or Popularis. it's supposed to be under $1000.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Compared to my X100e... Not really. ML switches probably come closest, but they have a sticking issue that ruins their otherwise good feel.

Actually I'd posit that it's easiest to compare them to buckling springs. Imagine the Thinkpad key, except rather than traveling 2mm it travels 4mm. And the tactile point is much crisper, and there's no mush on the landing. Plus a click. That's a buckling spring.

Trust me, if you can appreciate Lenovo scissor switches then you can appreciate a mechanical keyswitch.


Yeah I'm pretty much set for a mechanical keyboard. I'm just being picky because I want it shipped under 100 euro, with a US layout. And I haven't decided which switch to go with. Not that it looks like I'll have any choice, the only ones I've found are this G80 with black switches and the Blackwidow with blue switches.

And I'm looking at ebay but most of the stuff has either EU layouts or 30+ shipping.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Cherry ML switches

[simg]http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech/cherry_ml_01.jpg[/img]

they have a 3mm travel distance. actuation point is 1.5mm @ 52cN. tactile, non-clicky.

Optimus Maximus
Cherry G84-4100
Cherry G84-4700
Devlin Spacesaver


Thanks I'll look those up. Not the Maximus though


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Art Lebedev has a new one called the Optimus Polaris. $1500.











Yea I saw that too. Its a pretty innovative idea, too bad the price tags are ridiculous.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I just typed on my G80-8200 again. Ahhh, the soft feel of MX browns. They just feel so soft and light compared to MX blues. If only the G80-8200 wasn't so huge and had an ANSI layout.

I want an MX brown board in a G80-1800 style layout, except instead of a numberpad that's just a solid block of hardware reprogrammable keys with relegendable tops. In black. Mmmmmm.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I just typed on my G80-8200 again. Ahhh, the soft feel of MX browns. They just feel so soft and light compared to MX blues. If only the G80-8200 wasn't so huge and had an ANSI layout.

I want an MX brown board in a G80-1800 style layout, except instead of a numberpad that's just a solid block of hardware reprogrammable keys with relegendable tops. In black. Mmmmmm.


You sir may have to go and make that yourself. I want in.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Yea I saw that too. Its a pretty innovative idea, too bad the price tags are ridiculous.


updated post.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


updated post.


Well Christine that's still way out of my budget there. If you ever pick one up send one to me as well


----------



## thiru

All those ML switch keyboards are have small layouts









I found other Cherry keyboards!
http://www.materiel.net/ctl/Claviers..._euro_USB.html
http://www.materiel.net/ctl/Claviers..._euro_USB.html

I think the LSCEU has blue switches and the LQCEU has white ones, but I'm not sure.

Between blue, black and white, which would be better for someone who loves Thinkpads (it will be as much for gaming as typing)?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


That is the case with almost all rubber dome keyboards today as well.


Are you sure? I thought the usual arrangement was to have the inside of the rubber dome lined with graphite, and this made the contact. It's certainly the way just about every rubber dome keyboard I've ever seen works.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Art Lebedev has a new one called the Optimus Polaris or Popularis. it's supposed to be under $1000.


$999.99?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Are you sure? I thought the usual arrangement was to have the inside of the rubber dome lined with graphite, and this made the contact. It's certainly the way just about every rubber dome keyboard I've ever seen works.


Of the half dozen or so I've opened up they've all either had discreet rubber domes with graphite on a PCB (older ones) or two membranes and a spacer, no graphite.


----------



## ch_123

Graphite on a PCB, whaaa?

The older ones did use two part membranes, but I think a lot of newer ones use graphite on the dome. The one depicted in the picture at the front of the guide works as such


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Graphite on a PCB, whaaa?

The older ones did use two part membranes, but I think a lot of newer ones use graphite on the dome. The one depicted in the picture at the front of the guide works as such










I'm pretty sure graphite is the older style. Two membranes and a spacer seems most common in modern membrane keyboards and is probably cheaper to manufacture anyway.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Wow, 24 guests atm. Nice


----------



## Marin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Wow, 24 guests atm. Nice


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin*


----------



## Milk___

I know I am two days late to post but I have seen the orbitouch keyboards sell for $50 or so on ebay. I am wondering how you managed to find the touchstream as horrible as that title is.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Milk___* 
I know I am two days late to post but I have seen the orbitouch keyboards sell for $50 or so on ebay. I am wondering how you managed to find the touchstream as horrible as that title is.

webwit mentioned the seller on eBay mislabeled it. the eBay listing says Fingerstream ST when it's actually Touchstream LP. webwit seems to have a knack for finding people who have gold but think it's silver.


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Graphite on a PCB, whaaa?

The older ones did use two part membranes, but I think a lot of newer ones use graphite on the dome. The one depicted in the picture at the front of the guide works as such









Some PCB manufacturers are willing to put a graphite layer on top of the copper layer but it'd definitely be not only foolish but sinful, especially since God (I mean Cherry) gave us the MX switches.


----------



## Milk___

Yeah I realized that. The listing title was *Touchworks Fingerstream ST combo mouse & zero-force KB*, every thing in that is off. The seller even forgot to put keyboard in the title. It's just really random and I am sad that it slipped through my searches, not that I would have been able to keep up with webwit's much deeper pockets.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mondalaci* 
Some PCB manufacturers are willing to put a graphite layer on top of the copper layer but it'd definitely be not only foolish but sinful, especially since God (I mean Cherry) gave us the MX switches.









You don't get PCB-based rubber domes, except for the Topres which are completely different in that they use capacitance switching...


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I want a Ricercar SPOS. Anyone want to trade theirs for an XArmor U9BL?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
How good is the Black Widow looking right now? I saw the video "review" on youtube and that's it. Any reason not to buy it? because it's a good price for a MX blue switch keyboard and if I preorder it right now, I'll get the US layout (very hard for me to find a US mechanical keyboard here), not sure if I'll be able to order a US keyboard once they have the local French one in stock.

Also is the backlighting the only difference between the Ultimate and the normal one?

Thanks

Here are all of the differences:










Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I would wait until it's released or maybe goes on a sale. I am worried about the keycap wobble.

Blackwidow has no backlighting or multimedia hub.

But he was referring to the BlackWidow Ultimate.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidwolf909* 
Hello all,

kidwolf909! Fancy meetin' _you_ here!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidwolf909* 
I've been a lurker in this thread for quite some time now. I have wanted a mechanical keyboard for a while, but could never justify the $100+ for a decent keyboard. Well... I still can't justify it, but the urge is really getting to me!









I don't blame you! But I can speak from experience and say that even though it may not seem like it's worth it now, it'll seem _more_ than worth it once you finally acquire a decent/good mechanical keyboard!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidwolf909* 
That being said, I'm having trouble deciding between a couple of keyboards.

At this point in time, I use a Logitech Illuminated Slim keyboard (scissor switch) at home to game on and an OEM HP rubber dome keyboard at work. I have never used a mechanical keyboard, so I'm not really sure what I am looking for in one. I really appreciate the back-lighting and the silence of my Logitech and how thin it is. However, the keys lack any sort of feeling. They're kind of mushy, I guess. Most readily comparable to a Dell notebook keyboard.

So in order to retain some of the "silent" aspect of my current keyboard, I was thinking that a Das Professional Silent would be the best compromise of silence and feeling for me. I really like the backlit Deck keyboards, but I absolutely hate the font that they use on their keys (trivial, I suppose).

Any opinions on what I should do?

One thing I believe is worth mentioning is that mechanical keyboards with the Cherry MX Browns (such as the Das Model S Silent) are still capable of being clacky. I mean, it's just that the switch itself doesn't make a sound (as compared to clicky switches like the Cherry MX Blues). But when bottoming out these keyboards, they still make noise. Fortunately, they have a very light resistance and so it's easier to avoid bottoming out. Plus, the build quality of keyboards like the Das Model S is so high that even the sound of bottoming out is pleasing (I mean, it's not cheap-sounding so to speak): it's nice and solid!

But to get a general idea of what your first mechanical could sound like, check out the videos on these YouTube search results pages:

cherry mx blue
cherry mx brown
cherry mx black
majestouch
filco majestouch
das model s keyboard (the word "keyboard" has to be included once in a while)
steelseries 7g
steelseries 6gv2
cherry g80
buckling spring
ibm model m keyboard
unicomp customizer
unicomp spacesaver
dell at101w
abs m1
mechanical keyboard
mechanical keyboard review
There's also the video that's at the end of this article:

http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg...mystified.aspx

Quite naturally, some videos will make certain keyboards sound louder than they actually are, so watch several different videos that show the same keyboard. But also pay attention to how hard the person is typing: some of these people are bottoming out kinda hard while others are not bottoming out at all. Some videos might have too much treble while others may be a little bit muddy. So there again, watch as many videos as you can to get a better idea of what the actual sound might be. And of course, always try to go for the highest quality versions of the videos as possible.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidwolf909* 
Also, I hear there is a discount on Das KB's if you're a student. Is this discount better than the current 25% off?

I didn't know that there is a 25% discount, but the Student Discount (the Back to School Promotion) is 24% off:

http://www.daskeyboard.com/back-to-school-promotion/

If you can take advantage of this, then go for it!! The Silent models will be $102.60 shipped, and the non-Silent models will be $98.04 shipped! This price is extremely hard to beat for a BNIB Das Model S!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
All those ML switch keyboards are have small layouts









I found other Cherry keyboards!
http://www.materiel.net/ctl/Claviers..._euro_USB.html
http://www.materiel.net/ctl/Claviers..._euro_USB.html

I think the LSCEU has blue switches and the LQCEU has white ones, but I'm not sure.

Between blue, black and white, which would be better for someone who loves Thinkpads (it will be as much for gaming as typing)?

I would say either the Cherry MX Blues or Browns because of the lighter resistance and the tactile feedback. The Blacks don't have any tactile feedback while the Whites/Clears have a tactile feedback but have a stiffer spring which is stiffer than the Cherry MX Blues, but lighter than the Blacks. The Cherry MX Blues have a slightly sharper, more precise tactile feedback than the Browns. Plus, they provide a neat click sound upon actuation (I love it).

However, the Browns are better for gaming than the Blues in that the problem with the Blues is that the release point is higher in the key travel than the actuation point. This means that it can be problematic for double-tapping. But for casual gamers who let the key come all the way back up anyway in between the two strokes of a double-tap, the Blues are perfectly fine (and some even prefer the Blues for gaming).

So as you might be surmising from this, it's really completely up to you.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Das Model S Silent comes in tomorrow! Time to replace my ABS M1!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I didn't know that there is a 25% discount, but the Student Discount (the Back to School Promotion) is 24% off:

http://www.daskeyboard.com/back-to-school-promotion/

If you can take advantage of this, then go for it!! The Silent models will be $102.60 shipped, and the non-Silent models will be $98.04 shipped! This price is extremely hard to beat for a BNIB Das Model S!

It doesn't say anywhere that you need to be a student







. It's just a back to school sale, like the malls have. This from all appearances is different from the student discount that you have to contact them with proof for.


----------



## godofdeath

is there a video review of the xarmor or a review at all for it


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


It doesn't say anywhere that you need to be a student







. It's just a back to school sale, like the malls have. This from all appearances is different from the student discount that you have to contact them with proof for.


yes the back to school sale is a universal coupon code that anyone can use.

the student discount is unique for each person where i dont think another person can use your coupon code, or so it was when i tried


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


is there a video review of the xarmor or a review at all for it


http://hardwareaware.com/review/xarmor-u9bl/

It's the second google result for "U9BL".


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


is there a video review of the xarmor or a review at all for it


Here's one done by Phaedrus2129:

http://hardwareaware.com/review/xarmor-u9bl/

And here is my search results page on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rmor+U9BL&aq=f

Finally, here are my Google search results for it:

http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=all#h...e6e2d349dabc34


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Here's the review page on XArmor's site:
http://www.xarmor-usa.com/product-reviews.html


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Huh, apparently I screwed up and it really is plate mounted switches. I never fully removed the internal assembly, and it felt too light for a plate-mount board. I figured the black was just a coating on the top side of the PCB. Interesting.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Huh, apparently I screwed up and it really is plate mounted switches. I never fully removed the internal assembly, and it felt too light for a plate-mount board. I figured the black was just a coating on the top side of the PCB. Interesting.

i thought you were going to fully disect it since they let you have it for keeps

what you do with the kb after you were done?


----------



## godofdeath

hmmm was it the deck that had the cable you can move to the side or maybe it was razer ugh will investigate tomorrow


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


hmmm was it the deck that had the cable you can move to the side or maybe it was razer ugh will investigate tomorrow


Was it the Gigabyte keyboard mentioned in this post?

http://www.overclock.net/9832225-post4810.html

Although, I don't see a mention of whether or not there's more than one place to attach the cable.


----------



## thiru

Sorry to ask so many unrelated questions









I think I'm going to spend extra to get a Das Model S Ultimate Silent. So browns (they also have the blue version) for gaming and typing. I'm getting them on getdigital.de, they also have the Filco Majestouch Pro with brown/black/blue for 20 euro more.

Is there any reason to get the Filco? or not to get the Das Model S? are there any other easy to find keyboards with brown switches ?


----------



## fssbzz

that Gigabyte mechanical gaming kb wont support 64bit OS right?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


i thought you were going to fully disect it since they let you have it for keeps

what you do with the kb after you were done?


I did dissect it, I just never felt the need to remove the full internal assembly, since it was held in place with a bunch of snaps or something. The main thing I wanted to confirm was that iOne had improved their soldering. Cherry keyboards really start to look the same after a while, so I don't always bother fully breaking them down just for pictures.

I've been using it for the past couple weeks and it's alright, but I really prefer MX brown switches. I'm probably going to trade it to Ricercar for one of his eponymous SPOS keyboards, since he wants a backlit board and I want a SPOS (since it's basically like my Cherry G80-8200 with all the things I don't like fixed).


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Here are all of the differences:










But he was referring to the BlackWidow Ultimate.
.


?

iOne manufactured the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate, iOne also manufactured the Adesso MKB-135B. I posted a couple pictures of the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate and Adesso MKB-135B with crooked kaycaps.

maybe you didn't get enough sleep.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


hmmm was it the deck that had the cable you can move to the side or maybe it was razer ugh will investigate tomorrow


from what I read it's easy to change the Deck Legend from PS/2 to USB or vice versa. Gigabyte GK-K8000 and Ducky keyboards have attachable cables.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Sorry to ask so many unrelated questions









I think I'm going to spend extra to get a Das Model S Ultimate Silent. So browns (they also have the blue version) for gaming and typing. I'm getting them on getdigital.de, they also have the Filco Majestouch Pro with brown/black/blue for 20 euro more.

Is there any reason to get the Filco? or not to get the Das Model S? are there any other easy to find keyboards with brown switches ?


I've owned multiple Filco's (As they're what I tried for different switch types, and I own one still) and I've owned the Das. I would say get the Das, because the keycaps don't get that shine fast, and because it's got a few more niche features. For ~the same price or cheaper (if you're a student.)


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Whoo! My Das is being delivered today! Hopefully the UPS man will get here after I get out of class.


----------



## MLJS54

who keeps outbidding me on those linear Deck 82s on eBay??


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MLJS54*


who keeps outbidding me on those linear Deck 82s on eBay??

















If they have a Tactile version get it over the linear version. It's better.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


If they have a Tactile version get it over the linear version. It's better.


only Linear.

Kamikaze the OCN Moderator is most likely bidding with you, if he loses he will be in a foul mood... lol


----------



## lmnop

second Deck 82 Toxic had 14 bids and sold for $92.


----------



## Kamakazi

My max bid for that Deck was WELL below the $93 it went for. At that point it is not worth it over me just getting a Das.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


My max bid for that Deck was WELL below the $93 it went for. At that point it is not worth it over me just getting a Das.


there are only 3 Deck 82 Toxic left for $99 /ea. I can't believe they sold that high I don't think I would of paid more than $70.

again it's a Small Form Factor and the alternative choices are slim.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


there are only 3 Deck 82 Toxic left for $99 /ea. I can't believe they sold that high I don't think I would of paid more than $70.

again it's a Small Form Factor and the alternative choices are slim.


Yeah. the SFF is why I was interested. My max was $85 which really was probably too high anyway.


----------



## lmnop

your alternative choices are DSI Modular Mac for $130 but it only comes with Cherry MX Blue or Brown switches. Siig Minitouch for $99 but the controller has some problems. I think the Deck 82 has better rollover and build quality. Deck won't be around forever.


----------



## MLJS54

$85 was my high bid as well (76 + shipping). I'm offering him $90 outside of auction for one of the BIN ones. I mean anything at or above $100 is not worth it, might as well get a new one for $20 more.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MLJS54*


$85 was my high bid as well (76 + shipping). I'm offering him $90 outside of auction for one of the BIN ones. I mean anything at or above $100 is not worth it, might as well get a new one for $20 more.


Exactly. The news are $99+$9, 108$, only about a tenner less than a brand new one not counting shipping.


----------



## lmnop

why don't you guys buy the Deck 82 Ice it's $120 you get a slightly better rollover 6+4 instead of 4 with the Toxic and the included Skull & Crossbone Esc/Windows Keycap not sure if the seller includes them with the Toxic.










someone made a good point last week I can't remember who, but they said blue backlighting is nice but it gets boring.


----------



## lmnop

you also get the 1 year warranty with a Deck 82 Ice. I hope someone buys a set of those Blank Keycaps for it I haven't seen a picture of them


----------



## lmnop

another one sold for $99. 2 left. no pressure


----------



## MLJS54

I might just get the Ice. I haven't made up my mind because I'm also considering a new MKB for work. Debating giving lighter switches a try again. Realforce??


----------



## lmnop

looks like I was wrong the Deck 82 Toxic is 6+4 like the Ice.

Quote:

Ice and Toxic are not affected by this issue, both will have full NKRO (6 keys).
the Deck 82 Fire was the only model with the rollover issue.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I've owned multiple Filco's (As they're what I tried for different switch types, and I own one still) and I've owned the Das. I would say get the Das, because the keycaps don't get that shine fast, and because it's got a few more niche features. For ~the same price or cheaper (if you're a student.)

Thanks! Das Model S Utlimate Silent then


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Thanks! Das Model S Utlimate Silent then









I think you'll love it! Hehe I know I love mine ^^


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Das Model S Silent came in! Absolutely gorgeous keyboard to type on, after coming off of my ABS M1 (which already was amazing compared to my old G15). Very little force required to actuate the keys compared to the M1.

Absolutely no regrets!


----------



## EnzoFX

Just got my DAS! =O it is soo much easier to type on. I got the brown switches. I was however expecting some feedback from the switches, but I don't really notice it in normal usage. Otherwise no complaints here, love it.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EnzoFX*


Just got my DAS! =O it is soo much easier to type on. I got the brown switches. I was however expecting some feedback from the switches, but I don't really notice it in normal usage. Otherwise no complaints here, love it.


Browns aren't tactile.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Browns aren't tactile.


Yes they are.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Yes they are.


I mean linear. Wait I mean. Uh... nevermind I just had a huge brain fart.


----------



## Phaedrus2129




----------



## fssbzz

so is confirm that blackwidow use blue switches... lol









source link
http://kbtalking.cool3c.com/article/26250?page=0

that sucks for me.. lol


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Apparently Razer spent four years of "development" sitting on their ass playing Xbox and never actually touched their keyboard.


----------



## fssbzz

wonder if the BlackWidow even support NKRO??


----------



## gordesky1

Hmm hope the glossy finish wont bother me that much... Like my asus 1201n netbook which is gloss black and it drives me crazy sometimes... But thats with me everyday on the go so the keyboard shouldn't get too bad with finer prints.

Mainly if it gets scratched like my netbook got couple of them and i baby it...

But either way its preordered and coming too me next month









Just hope i would like it better than the abs m1, I know i will with the looks and features but i just love the key feel and the loud sound of the abs m1 which why i bought it in the first place.

Oh and i glad its cherry blues, always wanted too try them, and im sure it wont bother my gaming sense i don't double tab much and if i do, I always leave the key rise up first.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


wonder if the BlackWidow even support NKRO??


It does not, but they claim to have optimized the matrix for gaming. This means the WASD cluster shouldn't clog, but anything else is a shooting match.


----------



## Milk___

So Phaedrus you received the xarmor for free to review and you wouldn't try sanding down a keycap to check for durability? For shame.


----------



## Milk___

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


your alternative choices are DSI Modular Mac for $130 but it only comes with Cherry MX Blue or Brown switches. Siig Minitouch for $99 but the controller has some problems. I think the Deck 82 has better rollover and build quality. Deck won't be around forever.


Are the dsi boards nkro? I have not read much info on them.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



They said 
about 5 hours ago
2010-08-26 18:35:10
Das Keyboard Support

Nathanael,

Just a quick update to let you know that we have received your keyboard and tested it. So far it is showing no signs of squeaking.

Because your warranty is void due to the breaking of the plastic piece under the backspace key we cannot ship you a brand new keyboard. However, since you have had trouble with another keyboard previously we can make an exception and send you a refurbished keyboard for the replacement instead. It has been tested, cleaned, etc, and is covered under the same one year warranty as a new keyboard. If this is acceptable just let me know, and I will ship it out. If you'd prefer to have your current keyboard returned instead I can do that as well.
Thanks,

Erin


Better than nothing, right? Though I do find the lack of squeaking odd, it was pretty apparent when the board was in my possession.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Milk___*


Are the dsi boards nkro? I have not read much info on them.


no I think it has a 6+4 sequencing over USB similar to the i-Rocks KR-6230.


----------



## godofdeath

not interested in razer dont like how the esc key isn't all the way to the side


----------



## Milk___

I forgot about it being usb, I have a tendency to dismiss it even though it is the future and ps/2 is obsolete.


----------



## geoxile

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Milk___*


I forgot about it being usb, I have a tendency to dismiss it even though it is the future and* ps/2 is obsolete*.


wut


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Milk___*


I forgot about it being usb, I have a tendency to dismiss it even though it is the future and ps/2 is obsolete.


PS/2 is actually better than USB


----------



## Crazy9000

ps/2 is far from obsolete







.


----------



## WTHbot

So guys tell me, should I get a mechanical keyboard or should I get some new headphones?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WTHbot* 
So guys tell me, should I get a mechanical keyboard or should I get some new headphones?

What headphones are you using right now? If they're decent why not get a new keyboard?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WTHbot* 
So guys tell me, should I get a mechanical keyboard or should I get some new headphones?

Keyboard. I'd wait to do a headphones upgrade till you can get a nice soundcard or DAC as well.


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
What headphones are you using right now? If they're decent why not get a new keyboard?









HD201's not the worst things in the world. Sound card is a Creative Soundblaster Audigy SB0090, which is the bottom of the barrel, bought it for $5 though.
Was looking at SR-60i's, I think I can get a par for $60 and if so I'm gonna jump n it.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WTHbot* 
HD201's not the worst things in the world. Sound card is a Creative Soundblaster Audigy SB0090, which is the bottom of the barrel, bought it for $5 though.
Was looking at SR-60i's, I think I can get a par for $60 and if so I'm gonna jump n it.

u already have quite a decent headphone..so...i say Keyboard


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WTHbot* 
HD201's not the worst things in the world. Sound card is a Creative Soundblaster Audigy SB0090, which is the bottom of the barrel, bought it for $5 though.
Was looking at SR-60i's, I think I can get a par for $60 and if so I'm gonna jump n it.

What keyboard do you have?


----------



## klaxian

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WTHbot* 
So guys tell me, should I get a mechanical keyboard or should I get some new headphones?

I think you already know the answer to this if you're posting in the Mechanical Keyboard Guide thread


----------



## WTHbot

Just an OEM IBM keyboard, not sure of the modle the stickers are pealed off. Oh and I was gonna wait and try out a mechanical keyboard, I was gonna wait till the new razer one was in Bestbuy so I could try it out. I was also looking for blues and under $100.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WTHbot* 
Just an OEM IBM keyboard, not sure of the modle the stickers are pealed off. Oh and I was gonna wait and try out a mechanical keyboard, I was gonna wait till the new razer one was in Bestbuy so I could try it out. I was also looking for blues and under $100.

Keep in mind that one has no back lighting.


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Keep in mind that one has no back lighting.

No I wasn't consdiering the Razer, nor would I care for back lighting at my budget.

I mean I would like a Deck yes, but I can't afford that right now.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WTHbot* 
No I wasn't consdiering the Razer, nor would I care for back lighting at my budget.

I mean I would like a Deck yes, but I can't afford that right now.

Filco's/Das/Cherry boards are a nice alternative.
(price wise as well)
Oh right you can take a look at *this* if you want something cheap as well.


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Filco's/Das/Cherry boards are a nice alternative.
(price wise as well)
Oh right you can take a look at *this* if you want something cheap as well.

They are all around the same price, and that price is gonna be quiet a bit higher then I want to spend.Espcially on something that hasn't proven itself to me.


----------



## Milk___

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
ps/2 is far from obsolete







.

Try telling that to motherboard manufacturers. I have over ten ps/2 or at keyboards sitting around my desk right now. Only two keyboards I own are usb. I don't really have much use for usb keyboards other than I only have one ps/2 slot.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Milk___* 
Try telling that to motherboard manufacturers. I have over ten ps/2 or at keyboards sitting around my desk right now. Only two keyboards I own are usb. I don't really have much use for usb keyboards other than I only have one ps/2 slot.

Agreed, seems nobody puts them on there anymore. I have bought multiple mobos without PS/2


----------



## Genkaz92

Would you generally recommend the Deck 82? So far I find it to be an extremely appealing choice, I would appreciate if a few individuals shared their experiences with it.

If I were to purchase it, I would be moving from a rubber dome Sidewinder X6 which is serving me very well so far.


----------



## lmnop

I am pretty much the local Deck expert so if you have any questions feel free to ask.

http://www.dansdata.com/deck.htm
http://hardware.gotfrag.com/portal/story/39189/
http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...nd-82-ice.html


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Would you generally recommend the Deck 82? So far I find it to be an extremely appealing choice, I would appreciate if a few individuals shared their experiences with it.

If I were to purchase it, I would be moving from a rubber dome Sidewinder X6 which is serving me very well so far.

If you don't mind the akward layout of an 82 key board, then you'll love it.

It uses MX Black switches which are linear with no tactile response. Good for gaming, but not favorable for typing.

For first time mechanical users, the general consensus is to look for MX Browns, as they are the most well rounded switches. Fairly low activation, tactile feedback for typing, etc.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I am pretty much the local Deck expert so if you have any questions feel free to ask.

http://hardware.gotfrag.com/portal/story/39189/
http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...nd-82-ice.html


Certainly, I have questions about the following quality levels of the keyboard:

Comfort (typing and gaming)
Durability
Size
Layout
Ghosting
Key response time

We are talking about the 82 Ice, I find it extremely appealing so far due to the close yet well placed key spacing (especially F keys being right above then number keys) its apparent extreme durability, pleasant appearance, and compact size. Since I learned to live without a numpad a while ago, and is more of a macro person then a physical media key person, I do not see any reason not to get it so far, especially considering the visible possibility that it should last me atleast 10 years which makes it a bargain for 120 bucks.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Comfort (typing and gaming)

Cherry MX Black Linear switches are non-tactile, non-clicky, smooth and quiet. some people say Cherry MX Black Linear switches can be fatiguing when typing some say it's blown out of proportion. Deck has a 30 day return policy no questions asked.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Durability

the Deck 82 has a thick polycarbonate casing. on the bottom there is a diamond plate made out of aluminum with 4 rubber feet adhered to it. USB cable is thick. Cherry MX Switches are rated for 50,000,000 strokes that is roughly 20 years of use. the LED are industrial grade rated for 22 years. the PCB is reinforced with a fiberglass epoxy resin and black solder mask. the keycaps are made out of PBT which is a polycarbonate and polyester blend. the printing is dye sublimated which is permanent.

basically it's a Sherman Tank.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Size











it's a Small Form Factor.

12" wide x 6" deep x 1.8" high. weight is 2lbs.

you might want to buy a commercial wrist rest I can give you some recommendations.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Layout

the layout was designed for First Person Shooter games.

the smaller Ctrl and Alt Keys give your hands better posture.
Large 1 Key for Melee Weapon
Console Key (Tilde) at the bottom for quick access to the Console or if your not playing a First Person Shooter game you can use it as a extra bind.
Windows Key is located at the Top Right so you don't accidentally press it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Ghosting

the rollover is 6+4 over USB.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Key response time

Cherry MX switches have a faster snap, actuate at 2mm and a lower debounce time than rubber dome keyboards.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the rollover is 6+4 over USB.


I do not mean to sound like a dinosaur, but what precisely did you mean by 6+4 in more dissected terms?

Thank you very much for your reply by the way, so far I am definitely interested in it, and I am indeed an FPS person, the tilda key at the bottom will be very comfortable for various Valve games.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
I do not mean to sound like a dinosaur, but what precisely did you mean by 6+4 in more dissected terms?

Thank you very much for your reply by the way, so far I am definitely interested in it, and I am indeed an FPS person, the tilda key at the bottom will be very comfortable for various Valve games.

it means you can press any 6 keys at once plus 4 modifiers (Ctrl, Alt, Shift, Windows)


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


it means you can press any 6 keys at once plus 4 modifiers (Ctrl, Alt, Shift, Windows)


Thank you very much, Really I do not think that blacks will be that bad for typing, I have a relatively old basic mechanical keyboard with blacks and find it perfectly comfortable for such purposes.


----------



## lmnop

you're welcome.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genkaz92*


Thank you very much, Really I do not think that blacks will be that bad for typing, I have a relatively old basic mechanical keyboard with blacks and find it perfectly comfortable for such purposes.


It's really not a case of them being bad for typing, they just aren't as good as other switches for typing. Still beat a rubber dome.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
It's really not a case of them being bad for typing, they just aren't as good as other switches for typing. Still beat a rubber dome.

It is interesting how right now I find them quite comfortable for typing, rubber domes must feel like absolute Neanderthals to any frequent users that are used to Mechanical keyboards, especially the ones with tactile switches.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genkaz92*


It is interesting how right now I find them quite comfortable for typing, rubber domes must feel like absolute Neanderthals to any frequent users that are used to Mechanical keyboards, especially the ones with tactile switches.


rubber domes become less tactile and slower as they age. rubber or silicone can only take so much before it loses it's elasticity. people almost always apply more force to a rubber dome than needed.

I touch type and don't bottom out on my Das Ultimate so once in a while when my boyfriend sleeps at night I use my Microsoft Comfort Curve 2000 and it feels like the rubber domes have lead in them.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
rubber domes become less tactile and slower as they age. rubber or silicone can only take so much before it loses it's elasticity. people almost always apply more force to a rubber dome than needed.

I touch type and don't bottom out on my Das Ultimate so once in a while when my boyfriend sleeps at night I use my Microsoft Comfort Curve 2000 and it feels like the rubber domes have lead in them.

If this keyboard indeed has a visible capacity of lasting for 20+ years, I see no reason not to purchase it, thank you very much for your help.

The higher key loudness is not a problem for me whatsoever, by the way.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genkaz92*


If this keyboard indeed has a visible capacity of lasting for 20+ years, I see no reason not to purchase it, thank you very much for your help.

The higher key loudness is not a problem for me whatsoever, by the way.


the loudest this keyboard will be is when your gaming and apply a lot of force when bottoming out.

have a listen to the steelseries 7G in this video it has Cherry MX Black Linear switches. Cherry MX switches are quieter than Alps or Buckling Spring.

the Cherry MX Black Linear switches will be even quieter in the Deck 82 because they are PCB mounted unlike the steelseries 7g.


----------



## thiru

Just ordered my Das Model S Ultimate Silent with US layout!








143 euro including shipping, and thanks to vouchers I got a "TV pirate remote" (worth 14 euro) and an "Any Key" (worth 3.90 euro)









Gonna check if I can get the OCN flame key too


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Just ordered my Das Model S Ultimate Silent with US layout!








143 euro including shipping, and thanks to vouchers I got a "V pirate remote" (worth 14 euro) and an "Any Key" (worth 3.90 euro)









Gonna check if I can get the OCN flame key too










"Press Any Key"

YES I FINALLY HAVE ONE!!!
*clicks*
"Self destruct in 10"


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


"Press Any Key"

YES I FINALLY HAVE ONE!!!
*clicks*
"Self destruct in 10"


I would have preferred the bright red PANIC! key they have on the website


----------



## Genkaz92

By the way lmnop, I would appreciate if you gave me a few wrist set recommendations.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genkaz92*


By the way lmnop, I would appreciate if you gave me a few wrist set recommendations.


I recommend you wait until your 30 day return policy expires with Deck before buying one.

3M Silicone Compact Wrist Rest

leatherette with silicone and a metal base.

EliteKeyboards Leather Palm Rest

leather with foam and a metal base.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genkaz92*


It is interesting how right now I find them quite comfortable for typing, rubber domes must feel like absolute Neanderthals to any frequent users that are used to Mechanical keyboards, especially the ones with tactile switches.


You don't need to be a frequent user. When I switched from my G15 to my ABS M1 (which mind you is a low-end mechanical), I already found my G15 to be mushy and unresponsive within three days.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


rubber domes become less tactile and slower as they age. rubber or silicone can only take so much before it loses it's elasticity. people almost always apply more force to a rubber dome than needed.

I touch type and don't bottom out on my Das Ultimate so once in a while when my boyfriend sleeps at night I use my Microsoft Comfort Curve 2000 and it feels like the rubber domes have lead in them.


I just went for the Das Model S for my girlfriend's sake. I think "Clicky-clacky" isn't something she'd like to hear at 1 in the morning









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genkaz92*


If this keyboard indeed has a visible capacity of lasting for 20+ years, I see no reason not to purchase it, thank you very much for your help.

The higher key loudness is not a problem for me whatsoever, by the way.


It's definitely a viable statement. IBM Model M keyboards are decades old yet many of them are still working just fine. I actually bought my own keyboard (Das Model S Silent) with the mindset that I won't be switching anytime soon. After trying it out for a day, I think that's a very accurate assessment. Very crisp and sharp tactile feel (Cherry MX Brown switches), so I don't think I'd choose a keyboard over this anytime soon!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Just ordered my Das Model S Ultimate Silent with US layout!








143 euro including shipping, and thanks to vouchers I got a "TV pirate remote" (worth 14 euro) and an "Any Key" (worth 3.90 euro)









Gonna check if I can get the OCN flame key too










Link? I didn't see any of these things on their website!


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*


Link? I didn't see any of these things on their website!


... I bought it on a German website...


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


... I bought it on a German website...


Ahaha, nevermind then. I thought you were referring to the Das website. My bad!


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I recommend you wait until your 30 day return policy expires with Deck before buying one.

3M Silicone Compact Wrist Rest

leatherette with silicone and a metal base.

EliteKeyboards Leather Palm Rest

leather with foam and a metal base.

they make a compact version but it's not in stock at the moment.


Going to add this for a suggestion as well.


----------



## Kamakazi

Are there any wrist rests for compact keyboards? The Deck 82 is only 12" wide, the full sized ones are going to look dang wonky in front of it.


----------



## lmnop

oops. the medium palm rest is for the TenKeyLess


----------



## lmnop

you guys want to see something funny. classic Christine.

http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=217038&postcount=9

the video is a battle between rubber dome and mechanical keyboards, rubber domes rise to power and opinions from some veteran geekhack members.


----------



## Tator Tot

What's the cheapest Mech keyboard I can buy from a store right now?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


What's the cheapest Mech keyboard I can buy from a store right now?


DSI Big Font, DSI/Solidtek 6600, iOne Scorpius M10 and Adesso MKB-135B.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


DSI Big Font, DSI/Solidtek 6600, iOne Scorpius M10 and Adesso MKB-135B.


Doesn't this count as well?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Doesn't this count as well?


it uses square sliders. not mechanical


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


it uses square sliders. not mechanical










Ah I see. Thanks for the correction then.


----------



## lmnop

oh I forgot. Adesso MKB-125B around the price of a iOne Scorpius M10.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


it uses square sliders. not mechanical










Speaking of that board, I recommended it to someone on another forum. He ended up buying it, and the keycaps were apparently REALLY bad. He says they weren't very secure, came out easy, and even cracked.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Speaking of that board, I recommended it to someone on another forum. He ended up buying it, and the keycaps were apparently REALLY bad. He says they weren't very secure, came out easy, and even cracked.


I have recommended it several times and have received nothing but thank you's. perhaps his was defective.


----------



## Tator Tot

Lmnop you may have a good answer to this question, and the main reason I'm asking is I'm planning on buying a decent mech board to toss around people that's not my M1 so they can try mech boards.

So do any of those have roll-over issues for gaming wise?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I have recommended it several times and have received nothing but thank you's. perhaps his was defective.


Must've been. Just wanted to ask before I go around recommending it again.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

What are the switches in that DSI big font keyboard? My grandma's been using a Saitek Eclipse II because the backlit keys are easier for her to read, but the paint on most of the alphanum section is almost gone now so she's starting to have trouble finding some keys. If that DSI has half-decent switches I might buy her one.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Lmnop you may have a good answer to this question, and the main reason I'm asking is I'm planning on buying a decent mech board to toss around people that's not my M1 so they can try mech boards.

So do any of those have roll-over issues for gaming wise?


I would probably go with the iOne Scorpius M10 I think it has a standard matrix (2-key rollover) but it uses Cherry MX Blue switches which are tactile and clicky. for a first impression the click impresses people so it should make a good demo.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I would probably go with the iOne Scorpius M10 I think it has a standard matrix (2-key rollover) but it uses Cherry MX Blue switches which are tactile and clicky. the click is what impresses people they should make a good demo.


Does the MKB-135 have better roll-over? I wouldn't want them to complain because it couldn't do a normal WSAD option like WAQR or something like that.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


What are the switches in that DSI big font keyboard? My grandma's been using a Saitek Eclipse II because the backlit keys are easier for her to read, but the paint on most of the alphanum section is almost gone now so she's starting to have trouble finding some keys. If that DSI has half-decent switches I might buy her one.


Simplified Alps in Yellow (Linear)


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Does the MKB-135 have better roll-over? I wouldn't want them to complain because it couldn't do a normal WSAD option like WAQR or something like that.


it does but the Keycaps wobble which isn't very attractive.


----------



## lmnop

if you really want to make a impression buy a Filco Majestouch Tactile Click. the matte finish is neutral unlike the gloss finish of the Das which you either like or dislike, full rollover, click from the Cherry MX Blue switches, futura font is attractive. you get to keep it if they ever return it


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


it does but the Keycaps wobble which isn't very attractive.


The Addesso or iOne.

I've heard iOne's build quality hasn't been stelar but the only reviews I've read are of the Xamour board from them.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


if you really want to make a impression buy a Filco Majestouch Tactile Click. the matte finish is neutral unlike the gloss finish of the Das which you either like or dislike, full rollover, click from the Cherry MX Blue switches, futura font is attractive. you get to keep it if they ever return it










I've considered it and I might go for it. I just don't want to loan out of my Deck or M1 because the ABS Board is my first mech. It's sentimental.

And the Deck... well it's a deck. Might be built like a Panzer. But I don't want them to sherman-tank it from the behind.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


The Addesso or iOne.

I've heard iOne's build quality hasn't been stelar but the only reviews I've read are of the Xamour board from them.


there was concerns a couple years ago about the quality of the soldering but it's been corrected.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Simplified Alps in Yellow (Linear)


The Alps wiki doesn't seem to have much on them. How's the feel and force like?


----------



## lmnop

I am not sure









I think they are light.

ripster did a nice job on the Alps wiki.


----------



## godofdeath

whats the difference between the regular xarmor board and plus version they are going to release no backlights? im judging from the little pic i saw


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


whats the difference between the regular xarmor board and plus version they are going to release no backlights? im judging from the little pic i saw


I don't think they are releasing the Plus models in North America.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Oh, I can tell you about that it's--

Wait, ****.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


you guys want to see something funny. classic Christine.

http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=217038&postcount=9

the video is a battle between rubber dome and mechanical keyboards, rubber domes rise to power and opinions from some veteran geekhack members.


Why do geekhack members always link random movie/video clips from youtube lol. It seems like half the posts in every thread are youtube links.


----------



## thiru

Isn't that what people do on OCN too?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Isn't that what people do on OCN too?

More Pictures, Less Youtube.


----------



## lmnop

business here. laugh at geekhack.









I think it was Otterclock or another member who sent iOne a e-mail a couple months ago and I am pretty sure they said the U9BL was the only model being released in North America.


----------



## frickfrock999

When it comes to price, where would one see the most difference in MKs?

I mean, don't all MKs feel more or less the same?
Keep in mind, this is from somebody who has never owned one.


----------



## MijnWraak

Now the owner of an AT101W! Hopefully will get it within a week or so.









Figured for $21 shipped without the hassle of bidding (BIN) I can't really go wrong.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frickfrock99* 
When it comes to price, where would one see the most difference in MKs?

I mean, don't all MKs feel more or less the same?
Keep in mind, this is from somebody who has never owned one.

The more expensive keyboards are generally built better than the cheaper ones. The feel between switches is very different though. MX Blues don't feel anything like MX Blacks for example. A much, much larger difference that switching between different rubber dome keyboards.


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ljason8eg* 
The more expensive keyboards are generally built better than the cheaper ones. The feel between switches is very different though. MX Blues don't feel anything like MX Blacks for example. A much, much larger difference that switching between different rubber dome keyboards.

So every switch has a different feel to it?
Would you mind describing a few examples? I'm thinking of getting into the whole MK game myself


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frickfrock99* 
So every switch has a different feel to it?
Would you mind describing a few examples? I'm thinking of getting into the whole MK game myself









Cherry MX-Blacks feel like blacks on most boards. But the difference is how the key-cap or board feels overall.

It's like getting a cheap feeling case to a good case.


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frickfrock99* 
So every switch has a different feel to it?
Would you mind describing a few examples? I'm thinking of getting into the whole MK game myself









The Original posts have a lot of information on how the different key switches feel. Some are clicky, some aren't. Some are tactile, some aren't. They all require various amounts of force to press down as well.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frickfrock99* 
So every switch has a different feel to it?
Would you mind describing a few examples? I'm thinking of getting into the whole MK game myself









When picking a board the first thing you should look at are the switches. Figure out which switches you want (according to how you think they'd feel like), and then look at your options as to which keyboards come with those switches.

Between keyboards with the same switch, they will all feel almost exactly the same. There will be some differences in design obviously, but that's all subjective as to what you prefer (i.e., USB or PS/2, flat or sculpted keys, etc). The major differences are in the build quality - for example, the printing method used on the keycaps, the quality of the soldering, the plastics used in the case and keycaps and their thicknesses, and so on.

It's pretty much all in the first 10 posts. Most of it at least.


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
When picking a board the first thing you should look at are the switches. Figure out which switches you want (according to how you think they'd feel like), and then look at your options as to which keyboards come with those switches.

Between keyboards with the same switch, they will all feel almost exactly the same. There will be some differences in design obviously, but that's all subjective as to what you prefer (i.e., USB or PS/2, flat or sculpted keys, etc). The major differences are in the build quality - for example, the printing method used on the keycaps, the quality of the soldering, the plastics used in the case and keycaps and their thicknesses, and so on.

It's pretty much all in the first 10 posts. Most of it at least.

I did indeed read the first couple of posts several times up and down, very helpful good sir







.

I'm a bit confused though, are you saying that the stiffer switches are more suited for those who type?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frickfrock99* 
I did indeed read the first couple of posts several times up and down, very helpful good sir







.

I'm a bit confused though, are you saying that the stiffer switches are more suited for those who type?

Nope, it's all your preference. Some people want the switches as light as possible so that they barely have to press the keys, while others naturally pound the keys really hard so they want stiffer switches to absorb some of that force. Some people want a sharp, precise tactile bump while others want one that's barely noticeable (or not there at all).

It's really entirely up to you.


----------



## lmnop

one of the problems with mechanical keyboards is finding one on display.

fortunately Razer has included a window in the packaging for the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate so people can sample the Cherry MX Blue switches.


----------



## Maytan

I'm recommending a keyboard to someone. Need Cherry MX Browns and/or Blues for under $100. What are some possible options?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I'm recommending a keyboard to someone. Need Cherry MX Browns and/or Blues for under $100. What are some possible options?


is that all?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


is that all?


I sincerely apologize. *Please*









.. I guess I'll go look around myself. You can't always be lazy, eh?


----------



## Kamakazi

I would say one of the Das's with the student discount would be your best bet. They come in right around $100 after discount.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I sincerely apologize. *Please*









.. I guess I'll go look around myself. You can't always be lazy, eh?


when have I not helped you?

there is a Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch TenKeyLess NKRO on eBay for $112 23 hours left.

you're not going to get anything under $100 that is spectacular.

iOne Scorpius M10, Adesso MKB-125B, Adesso MKB-135B

there are 2 Cherry G80-8200 on eBay. I think they have Cherry MX Brown switches and Full Rollover. little expensive.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I sincerely apologize. *Please*









.. I guess I'll go look around myself. You can't always be lazy, eh?


http://www.macmall.com/p/5562054?dpn...rce=mwbfroogle


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Really random, but I just realized the font that Das uses on the Model S keys is the exact same font that Chipotle Mexican Grill uses


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


http://www.macmall.com/p/5562054?dpn...rce=mwbfroogle


you can get them on eBay brand new a little cheaper.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


http://www.macmall.com/p/5562054?dpn...rce=mwbfroogle


Danke!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


I would say one of the Das's with the student discount would be your best bet. They come in right around $100 after discount.


Funny you should mention that, they're actually having a 24% off thingy for Back to School. The promo code is right on their website.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


when have I not helped you?


Good point. I'd be totally lost on all the mechanical bees knees without you.

Thanks for the suggestions, as always. I'll be sure to show these to him.


----------



## Crazy9000

24% off on the das is pretty nice, I'd probably go with that if he's interested in the blue switches.


----------



## lmnop

it's going to be a long, cold winter this year I think I am going to knit me some "Das unmentionables"


----------



## Crazy9000

Das pantyhosen?

lol


----------



## lmnop

I am not THAT good at knitting, but I am catching on.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


it's going to be a long, cold winter this year I think I am going to knit me some "Das unmentionables"











Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Das pantyhosen?

lol



Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I am not THAT good at knitting, but I am catching on.











Is it wrong if I cracked up at this? I don't know... perhaps another one for 'it's late, and I'm tired'?


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


it's going to be a long, cold winter this year I think I am going to knit me some "Das unmentionables"










There is only one word........

KINKY!!!!!


----------



## lmnop

http://cgi.ebay.com/Filco-Red-French...omen_s_Panties

i'll never wear them <spits on the floor>


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


http://cgi.ebay.com/Filco-Red-French...omen_s_Panties


What.

[...]

What?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


What.

[...]

What?


Diatec didn't make them


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Das pantyhosen?

lol


Das Leiderhosen. Let's try to have some cultural context


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Diatec didn't make them










Bummer. I wanted to wear a pair while typing on a Filco keyboard.

I would've felt so badass.


----------



## lmnop

I was thinking of making Sgt. Meowstein (my cat) a blue and white striped sweater


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I was thinking of making Sgt. Meowstein (my cat) a blue and white striped sweater










You have a cat? How about some pictures for me to d'aww at.


----------



## lmnop

I have 2 cats. Catzilla and Sgt. Meowstein.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


You have a cat? How about some pictures for me to d'aww at.










You didn't D'aww at the pic of my cat in my avatar. I feel offended.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I have 2 cats. Catzilla and Sgt. Meowstein.


Haha, those are some sick names.

I do not have the capability to take care of a pet. I had a goldfish, and it died a week later. I had some lizards, and they all died a premature death. Except one I had named Stubby (something took half of his tale, it looked stubby... yay for creativity?), who actually lasted a year longer than expected.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


You didn't D'aww at the pic of my cat in my avatar. I feel offended.


Psshaw, I totally did 'daww; I just never expressed it in a post. He's a cute feller. I see he has a nice seat too.

EDIT: Whoah, what's up? The Das is on pre-order until the 20th of next month...


----------



## nmatavka

Hello world!

A few years ago, I found a previously-enjoyed Maltron keyboard for IBM dumb terminals; it had been left there by the previous owners of the house. Maltron is a little-known family-owned company in England, based on a concept by Lilian Malt (we're talking 1970s). The keyboards are hand-made with technical support and pricing to match. For this reason, I was very excited to have this opportunity.

Although the quality of the keyboard as a whole is without parallel, I found two problems with the keyboard as soon as it began to be my daily driver at home (Model M at work and on several PCs at home). My main PC used to use a very overpriced Logitech keyboard (I will not be using rubber domes again). This keyboard is nice, except: 1) the switches, which are Cherry MX black, and 2) the keys, which are ENGRAVED (yes, the letters are physically scratched into the keys) are no longer relevant to today's PC's. For instance, the Ctl key bears the legend "SET UP".

Lilian calls this an ergonomic keyboard---which it undoubtedly is. However, could the key switches not be at least Cherry browns if not blues or whites? For this reason, I'm considering having Cherry browns soldered in place of the blacks.

Also, in regards to the keys, I could not salvage keys from an existing Cherry board, because most keyboards are straight and have angled keys. The Maltron by comparison is very curved and has identical, spherical keys.

Here's the difference:
http://www.keycapsdirect.com/images/key-caps/angle2.jpg
http://www.keycapsdirect.com/images/key-caps/angle3.jpg

Therefore I'm considering purchasing the necessary keys, in multiple colours this time, and having the legends sublimated onto the keys. Do you think that a run of ~120 keys would be reasonably priced as to dye sub and the keys themselves?

What do you think, gentlemen? Overhaul or no overhaul?


----------



## Crazy9000

You're going to be looking at several dollars per key. OCN is selling their keycaps at a loss, for $5 each. Unfortunately, it is not even close to cost effective to get replacement caps for the whole board. Especially if you just want one of each.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
?

iOne manufactured the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate, iOne also manufactured the Adesso MKB-135B. I posted a couple pictures of the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate and Adesso MKB-135B with crooked kaycaps.

maybe you didn't get enough sleep.

My point was that you simply stated that the BlackWidow has no backlighting. But the reason why he was talking about backlighting was because he was referring to the Ultimate.

So no, you misunderstood me.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Better than nothing, right? Though I do find the lack of squeaking odd, it was pretty apparent when the board was in my possession.

Yeah, I find it odd too. Perhaps their environment was too noisy, or perhaps they suck at testing. Either way, I guess I'd finally be happy with them after this.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
not interested in razer dont like how the esc key isn't all the way to the side

It's just like with keyboards such as the G15: they're trying to maintain the placement of the keys in the 104-key layout. Actually, I had the G15 and the placement of the Esc key was just one of the things I hated about that keyboard.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Keep in mind that one has no back lighting.

Actually, there are two different versions of the Black Widow:










The Ultimate model has backlighting.


----------



## lmnop

the original question was

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
How good is the Black Widow looking right now? I saw the video "review" on youtube and that's it. Any reason not to buy it? because it's a good price for a MX blue switch keyboard and if I preorder it right now, I'll get the US layout (very hard for me to find a US mechanical keyboard here), not sure if I'll be able to order a US keyboard once they have the local French one in stock.

*Also is the backlighting the only difference between the Ultimate and the normal one?*

Thanks

I answered.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I would wait until it's released or maybe goes on a sale. I am worried about the keycap wobble.

*Blackwidow has no backlighting or multimedia hub.*

then you said.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But he was referring to the BlackWidow Ultimate.


ever heard of deduction?


----------



## TwoCables

I don't know why you even talk to me. I mean, you know we don't get along, so why can't we just co-exist in this thread without interacting?

For what it's worth: you should have said something like _"the non-Ultimate edition doesn't have backlighting or a multimedia hub"_ as opposed to just saying the same thing thisispatrick said.


----------



## lmnop

you bust my balls over nothing that is why. you interacted with me


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
you bust my balls over nothing that is why. you interacted with me









Sigh. All I was saying was that the way you said it could be interpreted as though you aren't aware that there's an Ultimate edition. You should have specified that you were referring to the regular one as opposed to the Ultimate.

Plus, you don't have any balls.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nmatavka* 
Hello world!

A few years ago, I found a previously-enjoyed Maltron keyboard for IBM dumb terminals; it had been left there by the previous owners of the house. Maltron is a little-known family-owned company in England, based on a concept by Lilian Malt (we're talking 1970s). The keyboards are hand-made with technical support and pricing to match. For this reason, I was very excited to have this opportunity.

Although the quality of the keyboard as a whole is without parallel, I found two problems with the keyboard as soon as it began to be my daily driver at home (Model M at work and on several PCs at home). My main PC used to use a very overpriced Logitech keyboard (I will not be using rubber domes again). This keyboard is nice, except: 1) the switches, which are Cherry MX black, and 2) the keys, which are ENGRAVED (yes, the letters are physically scratched into the keys) are no longer relevant to today's PC's. For instance, the Ctl key bears the legend "SET UP".

Lilian calls this an ergonomic keyboard---which it undoubtedly is. However, could the key switches not be at least Cherry browns if not blues or whites? For this reason, I'm considering having Cherry browns soldered in place of the blacks.

Also, in regards to the keys, I could not salvage keys from an existing Cherry board, because most keyboards are straight and have angled keys. The Maltron by comparison is very curved and has identical, spherical keys.

Here's the difference:
http://www.keycapsdirect.com/images/key-caps/angle2.jpg
http://www.keycapsdirect.com/images/key-caps/angle3.jpg

Therefore I'm considering purchasing the necessary keys, in multiple colours this time, and having the legends sublimated onto the keys. Do you think that a run of ~120 keys would be reasonably priced as to dye sub and the keys themselves?

What do you think, gentlemen? Overhaul or no overhaul?

First, I would love to see pictures of it as is. Second, that is a great keyboard. I would try to keep it stock and just buy a new board with blues for typing. Third, lets see the pictures please


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nmatavka* 
Hello world!

A few years ago, I found a previously-enjoyed Maltron keyboard for IBM dumb terminals; it had been left there by the previous owners of the house. Maltron is a little-known family-owned company in England, based on a concept by Lilian Malt (we're talking 1970s). The keyboards are hand-made with technical support and pricing to match. For this reason, I was very excited to have this opportunity.

Although the quality of the keyboard as a whole is without parallel, I found two problems with the keyboard as soon as it began to be my daily driver at home (Model M at work and on several PCs at home). My main PC used to use a very overpriced Logitech keyboard (I will not be using rubber domes again). This keyboard is nice, except: 1) the switches, which are Cherry MX black, and 2) the keys, which are ENGRAVED (yes, the letters are physically scratched into the keys) are no longer relevant to today's PC's. For instance, the Ctl key bears the legend "SET UP".

Lilian calls this an ergonomic keyboard---which it undoubtedly is. However, could the key switches not be at least Cherry browns if not blues or whites? For this reason, I'm considering having Cherry browns soldered in place of the blacks.

Also, in regards to the keys, I could not salvage keys from an existing Cherry board, because most keyboards are straight and have angled keys. The Maltron by comparison is very curved and has identical, spherical keys.

Here's the difference:
http://www.keycapsdirect.com/images/key-caps/angle2.jpg
http://www.keycapsdirect.com/images/key-caps/angle3.jpg

Therefore I'm considering purchasing the necessary keys, in multiple colours this time, and having the legends sublimated onto the keys. Do you think that a run of ~120 keys would be reasonably priced as to dye sub and the keys themselves?

What do you think, gentlemen? Overhaul or no overhaul?

welcome







I think you should consider buying a Kinesis Advantage. it's going to cost more than a Kinesis Advantage to manufacture a set of Keycaps for the Maltron.


----------



## KipH

@ nmatavka: I did some more digging. I looked at how they attached each switch and it should be easy enough to do a switch swap if your good at that sorta thing.

Keycaps will be another matter. You could put on some scavenged from a broken board or cheep board with cherries. But that shape will make it very hard. You may need to think of something more clever


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
My point was that you simply stated that the BlackWidow has no backlighting. But the reason why he was talking about backlighting was because he was referring to the Ultimate.

So no, you misunderstood me.

Why are you guys picking about it when I obviously understood what she said?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Actually, there are two different versions of the Black Widow:

[IsMG]http://home.comcast.net/%7Etim2679/BlackWidow.png[/IMG]

The Ultimate model has backlighting.

He was replying to someone who was asking about a mechanical keyboard with Cherry blue switches under 100$ and mentioned Razer's new keyboard. But that means Blackwidow vanilla, which has no backlighting.


----------



## lmnop




----------



## mondalaci

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
You don't get PCB-based rubber domes, except for the Topres which are completely different in that they use capacitance switching...

I didn't mean rubber domes, but the graphite layer that rubber domes can sit on.


----------



## thisispatrick

Woh woh woh. I go to sleep for one night and this is what happens?
Ok let me sum up something really easily.
I did specifically say

Quote:

Keep in mind that one has no back lighting.
and TwoCables replies

Quote:

Actually, there are two different versions of the Black Widow
Well yes I know that. That's exactly why I wrote "one" has no back lighting. Sure I didn't specifically write out which one. But now if its my fault for thinking that he is intelligent enough to go check for himself and realize 2-1=the other one then I will take full blame.

I'm not against you or anything I just wanted to clear a misunderstanding between what I wrote and your perspective regarding it.

As for what you have against Christine I can arrange a boxing match and be the referee if that's alright with you two.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Woh woh woh. I go to sleep for one night and this is what happens?
Ok let me sum up something really easily.
I did specifically say

and TwoCables replies

Well yes I know that. That's exactly why I wrote "one" has no back lighting. Sure I didn't specifically write out which one. But now if its my fault for thinking that he is intelligent enough to go check for himself and realize 2-1=the other one then I will take full blame.

I'm not against you or anything I just wanted to clear a misunderstanding between what I wrote and your perspective regarding it.

As for what you have against Christine I can arrange a boxing match and be the referee if that's alright with you two.

When I read it, I read it as "keep in mind _that one_ has no backlighting" as in "keep in mind that it doesn't have backlighting".

So what's with _"and TwoCables replies"_? I'm right here.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
When I read it, I read it as "keep in mind _that one_ has no backlighting" as in "keep in mind that it doesn't have backlighting".

So what's with _"and TwoCables replies"_? I'm right here.

So yeah it all boils down to how you read it. No harm done. Still want that boxing match?


----------



## Sheira

Yo guys, simple question. Which mechanical keyboard to get for stacraft2 (RTS)? From what i read, the brown switch should be good.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sheira* 
Yo guys, simple question. Which mechanical keyboard to get for stacraft2 (RTS)? From what i read, the brown switch should be good.

In SC2 you're going to tapping the same keys a lot, so I guess the blacks would be the best.


----------



## Hoodcom

I have finally gotten my new mechanical keyboard. After the first long delay thanks to FedEx loosing it in the mail...









Anyway, I just got the second shipment in today. I like the way it sounds. Sounds pretty cool.

And FREAKING WOW! This thing sure is sensitive! Doesn't take much to accidentally press a key on this while typing... but also I need a better desk surface or something to make it better on me. desk is just a tad too tall... right now I am using it on my lap. lol

I may have to get me more of these keyboards later down the road.

When I find some batteries for the camera I'll take some pictures if any of you want.


----------



## thiru

What do you have?


----------



## thisispatrick

Sounds like he has the blues.
Pun not intended.


----------



## Hoodcom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
What do you have?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Sounds like he has the blues.
Pun not intended.

Yes, Cherry MX Blues.

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...id=fkbn104mceb

This model.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Yeah, I find it odd too. Perhaps their environment was too noisy, or perhaps they suck at testing. Either way, I guess I'd finally be happy with them after this.

Perhaps. To be honest, I can't complain. I'm getting a free warranty. I just hope the aesthetic condition isn't so bad. I'm not an aesthetics-whore, but I prefer it not look like someone played baseball with it...


----------



## thiru

Why did they cancel this








Mechanical keyboard + nipple must be so much win


----------



## Tator Tot

I could totally live without the nipple. I HATE those on a laptop.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I could totally live without the nipple. I HATE those on a laptop.

Have you ever tried a Thinkpad? Having a nipple means your hands never leave the home row which means maximum efficiency!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Have you ever tried a Thinkpad? Having a nipple means your hands never leave the home row which means maximum efficiency!

I own an IBM Model; sure it may mean your hands never leave the home row, but it's absolutely annoying. I touch it while typing all the time.
I hate them. They are terrible for that reason. More so the ones that have click functions on them.


----------



## Crazy9000

The nipple was going to be optional. It seemed like it would have been a pretty awesome board.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I own an IBM Model; sure it may mean your hands never leave the home row, but it's absolutely annoying. I touch it while typing all the time.
I hate them. They are terrible for that reason. More so the ones that have click functions on them.

I'm talking about a Thinkpad laptop. They have the best laptop keyboards and the best nipples. I've had my R61 for 4 years now and I've never touched it while typing







. Do you touch type? the nipple really doesn't take that much space, at least on a Thinkpad.

And even if I did, it's not like it's going to do anything except move the mouse 3 pixels away. Click functions can be changed in mouse options.


----------



## lmnop

what's wrong with touching nipples? are you some kind of ***gy?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
The nipple was going to be optional. It seemed like it would have been a pretty awesome board.

Yeah I know, I like that they gave the option.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I'm talking about a Thinkpad laptop. They have the best laptop keyboards and the best nipples. I've had my R61 for 4 years now and I've never touched it while typing







. Do you touch type? the nipple really doesn't take that much space, at least on a Thinkpad.

And even if I did, it's not like it's going to do anything except move the mouse 3 pixels away. Click functions can be changed in mouse options.

Yes, I'm talking about Thinkpad's as well. IBM made them before Lenovo.

And yes I touch type, I don't look at the keyboard and my fingers only slightly rest above the keys where they just barely make any contact at all. I would still bump the nipple and it was annoying to see my mouse cursor move at all.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 









Why did they cancel this








Mechanical keyboard + nipple must be so much win

There's always the Unicomp Endurapro.


----------



## Phaedrus2129




----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Yeah I know, I like that they gave the option.

Yes, I'm talking about Thinkpad's as well. IBM made them before Lenovo.

And yes I touch type, I don't look at the keyboard and my fingers only slightly rest above the keys where they just barely make any contact at all. I would still bump the nipple and it was annoying to see my mouse cursor move at all.

Oh, when you said IBM Model I read "IBM Model M" (which has nothing to do with nipples)









That's odd. You must have thick fingers or something. Most of my friends complain about it being useless, not annoying.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 



















There's only one problem with that keyboard. No mouse buttons







(same thing with the other one actually)


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nmatavka* 
Hello world!

A few years ago, I found a previously-enjoyed Maltron keyboard for IBM dumb terminals; it had been left there by the previous owners of the house. Maltron is a little-known family-owned company in England, based on a concept by Lilian Malt (we're talking 1970s). The keyboards are hand-made with technical support and pricing to match. For this reason, I was very excited to have this opportunity.

Although the quality of the keyboard as a whole is without parallel, I found two problems with the keyboard as soon as it began to be my daily driver at home (Model M at work and on several PCs at home). My main PC used to use a very overpriced Logitech keyboard (I will not be using rubber domes again). This keyboard is nice, except: 1) the switches, which are Cherry MX black, and 2) the keys, which are ENGRAVED (yes, the letters are physically scratched into the keys) are no longer relevant to today's PC's. For instance, the Ctl key bears the legend "SET UP".

Lilian calls this an ergonomic keyboard---which it undoubtedly is. However, could the key switches not be at least Cherry browns if not blues or whites? For this reason, I'm considering having Cherry browns soldered in place of the blacks.

Also, in regards to the keys, I could not salvage keys from an existing Cherry board, because most keyboards are straight and have angled keys. The Maltron by comparison is very curved and has identical, spherical keys.

Here's the difference:
http://www.keycapsdirect.com/images/key-caps/angle2.jpg
http://www.keycapsdirect.com/images/key-caps/angle3.jpg

Therefore I'm considering purchasing the necessary keys, in multiple colours this time, and having the legends sublimated onto the keys. Do you think that a run of ~120 keys would be reasonably priced as to dye sub and the keys themselves?

What do you think, gentlemen? Overhaul or no overhaul?

If you wanna buy the MX switches new then that'd cost you about $100 and custom keys made by Signature Plastics for the DSA family would cost you about $500, I believe. If Maltron uses some custom keycap family then that can cost thousands of dollars.

You're probably better off hunting on eBay for a keyboard with MX switches and DSA keycap family.


----------



## Marin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 









There's only one problem with that keyboard. No mouse buttons







(same thing with the other one actually)

Looks like it has two mouse buttons at the bottom.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
Looks like it has two mouse buttons at the bottom.











I couldn't see them because of the contrast on my laptop
And now I realize what those 2 things on the spacebar of the Miniguru are for









edit: What are the switches on that Unicomp? is it good? I actually might cancel my Das Model S Ultimate Silent order and get this instead, even if I have to order it from the US







($99 + shipping to Europe... which should be 30 euro... still cheaper than my Das!)


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 









There's only one problem with that keyboard. No mouse buttons







(same thing with the other one actually)

That Unicomp board has buttons right below the Space Bar, hard to see though.


----------



## Crazy9000

I like the color scheme on that unicomp.


----------



## thiru

Oh it has buckling springs... anyone got feedback for it?

edit: found some reviews. Both didn't use the nipple at all but one said it was really bad because there was one direction in which it was really hard to move








And buckling springs are going to be loud...


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 



















<3


----------



## thiru

It seems like none of these keyboards with trackpoints compare to Thinkpads'


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Oh it has buckling springs... anyone got feedback for it?

edit: found some reviews. Both didn't use the nipple at all but one said it was really bad because there was one direction in which it was really hard to move








And buckling springs are going to be loud...

If you churn up the sensitivity all the way up in Windows, it is quite usable. It's just not as good as the ones on modern Thinkpads. I would still give it a thumbs up nonetheless.

Same is true of the original Trackpoints used in the IBM M13 and M4-1.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Oh it has buckling springs... anyone got feedback for it?

edit: found some reviews. Both didn't use the nipple at all but one said it was really bad because there was one direction in which it was really hard to move








And buckling springs are going to be loud...

Buckling springs are softer on the ears than MX blues, but carry better so you'll annoy more people less.









Buckling springs are great to type on. I really love my MX browns, but there's a reason I have a Model M for my workshop rig. The only downside to buckling springs if they're on the heavier side, around 65g for the Unicomp models. If you have small/weak hands, this _may_ tire you out. But they're still great to type on, all the feedback of MX blues (MX blues are imitating them really), with a softer landing. No need to train yourself not to bottom out, since the bottoming out is so soft and is only about .5mm below the actuation point (which may be the reason it's so soft).

Unless noise is a major issue I think I can recommend the Endurapro to you.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 









<3

Holy crap, top right. Is that a black space saving M13? WANT WANT WANT


----------



## ch_123

Lol, I wish. It's a Model M4-1, complete with rubber sleeves.

I'd sell you one if you weren't on the wrong side of the pond.

That said, the rumored Unicomp Mighty Mouse is going to be a buckling spring version of that.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
If you churn up the sensitivity all the way up in Windows, it is quite usable. It's just not as good as the ones on modern Thinkpads. I would still give it a thumbs up nonetheless.

Same is true of the original Trackpoints used in the IBM M13 and M4-1.

Yeah but I would be also be using a regular mouse next to it for games. The Endurapro's trackpoint mechanism is completely different than the Thinkpad's, and I can't find the IBM M13 that ships to France (and it looks like it costs way more).


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Lol, I wish. It's a Model M4-1, complete with rubber sleeves.

I'd sell you one if you weren't on the wrong side of the pond.

That said, the rumored Unicomp Mighty Mouse is going to be a buckling spring version of that.

Buckling Spring Mighty Mouse? Lol, the Duke Nukem Forever of the keyboard community.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Yeah but I would be also be using a regular mouse next to it for games. The Endurapro's trackpoint mechanism is completely different than the Thinkpad's, and I can't find the IBM M13 that ships to France (and it looks like it costs way more).

In terms of sensitivity (and lack thereof) the Unicomp FSR pointing stick is similar to the Trackpoint II on the M13. The primary difference is that the FSR stick has some degree of movement, so it wiggles around a bit whereas IBM trackpoints do not move. If you get used to that fact, it's equivalent to the one on the M13.

Bare in mind that I have experience with EnduraPros, M13s and M4-1s.

Quote:

Buckling Spring Mighty Mouse? Lol, the Duke Nukem Forever of the keyboard community
Tell me about it, I'd give my right arm for one of those things...


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Buckling springs are softer on the ears than MX blues, but carry better so you'll annoy more people less.









Buckling springs are great to type on. I really love my MX browns, but there's a reason I have a Model M for my workshop rig. The only downside to buckling springs if they're on the heavier side, around 65g for the Unicomp models. If you have small/weak hands, this _may_ tire you out. But they're still great to type on, all the feedback of MX blues (MX blues are imitating them really), with a softer landing. No need to train yourself not to bottom out, since the bottoming out is so soft and is only about .5mm below the actuation point (which may be the reason it's so soft).

Unless noise is a major issue I think I can recommend the Endurapro to you.

Well I guess it could do. But I also game, how are they for that?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Holy crap, top right. Is that a black space saving M13? WANT WANT WANT

Holy carp I want it too!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Lol, I wish. It's a Model M4-1, complete with rubber sleeves.

I'd sell you one if you weren't on the wrong side of the pond.

That said, the rumored Unicomp Mighty Mouse is going to be a buckling spring version of that.

Holy mother of god, how much? and I suppose it's a buckling springs keyboard too. What else do you have?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Tell me about it, I'd give my right arm for one of those things...

.. But then how would you type on it?


----------



## ch_123

The M4-1 is a 'rubber sleeve' keyboard, it feels like a very good scissor switch keyboard, and has a nice 'thock' to it. Not a mechanical, and has nothing on buckling springs.

If you are in France, and have preference for a European layout as opposed to the US one with the horizontal enter and no key to the right of left shift, I also have a German layout one, albeit a white one.

Quote:

.. But then how would you type on it?
Trust me, you don't want to know.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
The M4-1 is a 'rubber sleeve' keyboard, it feels like a very good scissor switch keyboard, and has a nice 'thock' to it.

If you are in France, and have preference for a European layout as opposed to the US one with the horizontal enter and no key to the right of left shift, I also have a German layout one, albeit a white one.

Trust me, you don't want to know.

Oh it's not mechanical?
Mmmh.. now I'm confused as to what to get. I already ordered the Das though, so I guess I will wait and see.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The IBM/Unicomp BS keyboards are pretty good for gaming. The force is a little high for my preference and they aren't NKRO. However they have the IBM matrix which is one of the most common and will suffice for gaming 99% of the time. Fighting or skateboarding games might tax its abilities, but for FPS gaming it'll be fine. The click might be annoying if you don't have headphones, but I lived with it for about 3 months when I used my Model M is my primary. They also don't have the reset issue of MX blues.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
The IBM/Unicomp BS keyboards are pretty good for gaming. The force is a little high for my preference and they aren't NKRO. However they have the IBM matrix which is one of the most common and will suffice for gaming 99% of the time. Fighting or skateboarding games might tax its abilities, but for FPS gaming it'll be fine. The click might be annoying if you don't have headphones, but I lived with it for about 3 months when I used my Model M is my primary. They also don't have the reset issue of MX blues.

Well I guess I could try the Model M13 then. And the M4-1 even though it doesn't have mechanical switches. I don't think I could stand the Endura's trackpoint because of how used I am to the Thinkpad's (one of the nipple tips available makes it so that you need to push farther with your finger, and I hate it).

But like I said, I'll just try my Das and see if I'm happy with it. Besides I have a 22in screen, not sure how practical a trackpoint is going to be with that


----------



## ch_123

I have used both an M13 and Endurapro with a 1600x1200 20" LCD. Works fine.


----------



## Crazy9000

I've been interested in the blank keycaps for the Deck for awhile, but nowhere does it say how they expect you to print on them. Are you supposed to send them out somewhere to have them printed?


----------



## nmatavka

I thought that would be the case for key caps. I can't find flat cherry key caps anywhere. Kinesis caps are also angled. I think my best bet would be contacting Maltron for key caps ($30). These seem to be dye-sub nowadays I think (like I said, formerly engraved).

I had never thought of buying new Cherry caps; I have a half-broken Cherry keyboard that I thought of scavenging for parts.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I've been interested in the blank keycaps for the Deck for awhile, but nowhere does it say how they expect you to print on them. Are you supposed to send them out somewhere to have them printed?


?

The only other keycaps I've seen for a Deck are those with the white squares in the middle of the caps. I'm pretty sure the intent is a glowing "otaku" style board.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
?

The only other keycaps I've seen for a Deck are those with the white squares in the middle of the caps. I'm pretty sure the intent is a glowing "otaku" style board.

The idea is that you would make your own keycaps I believe. I mean you could even do it with a sharpie and a stencil, but that wouldn't last too long.


----------



## Jyr

Do any keyboards like the Happy Hacking boards exist?

I don't have near-$300 to spend, unfortunately. But I really like the form factor.

Decks come close, but I don't want backlightning, and their boards seem far too cramped (don't like the ctrl/shift/backspace keys)

Really love the idea of ctrl in place of capslock.

Am I out of luck or is there something out there for me?


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


The idea is that you would make your own keycaps I believe. I mean you could even do it with a sharpie and a stencil, but that wouldn't last too long.


The thought of that makes me sad. A sharpie on a deck = sad panda


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jyr*


Do any keyboards like the Happy Hacking boards exist?

I don't have near-$300 to spend, unfortunately. But I really like the form factor.

Decks come close, but I don't want backlightning, and their boards seem far too cramped (don't like the ctrl/shift/backspace keys)

Really love the idea of ctrl in place of capslock.

Am I out of luck or is there something out there for me?


So you want it completely compact like the HHKB, and not just tenkeyless like the filco?


----------



## Jyr

It depends.

If something else exists like the HHKB, without sacrificing the size of backspace, shift, ect for a reasonable price, I'd be all over it. I play StarCraft so ctrl and shift are very important to me.

Otherwise I'd settle for a tenkeyless board.


----------



## lmnop

Paulie Walnuts, Crazy can you please pop your Spacebar off to see which switch it's using.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Paulie Walnuts, Crazy can you please pop your Spacebar off to see which switch it's using.


Lemme check

I'm not sure what the different types are, but it has a black holder on each side, and a MX Clear switch in the middle. No wire bar.

I'm uploading a pic


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Paulie Walnuts, Crazy can you please pop your Spacebar off to see which switch it's using.


Do you want to know the switch under the spacebar on the Deck?

If so I've got a Ice-Linear (can't remember if it or Frost comes in two fashions) so I can check if you want?


----------



## lmnop

yes please. it's probably Grey or Green.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

MX black keyboards have MX black spacebars.
MX clear keyboards have MX clear spacebars.
MX blue keyboards have MX green spacebars.
MX brown keyboards have MX gray spacebars.

But I've only observed this in Cherry keyboards, both iOne and Costar keyboards use the same spacebar switch as the rest of the board.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


yes please. it's probably Grey or Green.


Alright, I'll look in a bit and get a picture later (need to Borrow my Ex's camera again







)

I think it's Clear, it's tactile like the rest of my switches but I think it has a metal bar thing, as it doesn't want to come off easy.

Walnuts & Crazy, what Deck's do you have?

EDIT: My board is the Frost not the ice. 
I always think Frost = Blue, Ice = White but it's the other way around.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Lemme check

I'm not sure what the different types are, but it has a black holder on each side, and an MX Clear switch in the middle. No wire bar.

I'm uploading a pic


Tator - I have a 105 Tactile Ice










Terrible pic, but it was my cell, and had to use a flashlight for lighting. lol


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


MX black keyboards have MX black spacebars.
MX clear keyboards have MX clear spacebars.
MX blue keyboards have MX green spacebars.
MX brown keyboards have MX gray spacebars.

But I've only observed this in Cherry keyboards, both iOne and Costar keyboards use the same spacebar switch as the rest of the board.


I am pretty sure it's Cherry MX Grey (MX1A-21NW) Linear, 80g.


----------



## lmnop

that is interesting. I wonder if Crazy9000 Deck Legend 105 Fire has a Cherry MX Black Linear or Grey in the Spacebar.

May, 2009.

Quote:



Yes we currently use a higher force switch for the spacebar in the Deck Legend (currently MX1A-21NW). I am not sure if this would remedy the problem you are experiencing but you could give it a shot. It really doesn't make a lot of difference, just something that we like.


the reason they chose it was so the Spacebar always returns in the up position and because it's the most used key.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Tator - I have a 105 Tactile Ice

Terrible pic, but it was my cell, and had to use a flashlight for lighting. lol


Same, all I have is my Cell, which is probably 4 or 5 years old now. So the camera is definitely not of any merrit lol

But is that a MX-White switch?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

MX clear. MX white is vintage and rare.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


MX clear. MX white is vintage and rare.


Did not know that, it was hard to tell from his picture. Which is why I'm not even bothering with my cell.

Unless I'm outside and taking pictures at a distance it's not a good camera. Fine for the time. But not modern standards.


----------



## Jalal

http://www.activekeyboards.com/en/ (see my post below)

Quote:



- Excellent actuation feeling


?
Is there any chance that this keyboard uses cherry clear? I like it's price. It even has brightness control.

I just saw that this price is just for some time.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

What keyboard? That multimedia garbage?


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


http://www.activekeyboards.com/en/
?
Is there any chance that this keyboard uses cherry clear? I like it's price. It even has brightness control.


I believe it has scissor switches (laptop style rubber domes)


----------



## Tator Tot

Poped open my Deck; Space-bar & C/V/B/ keys all have the same switch. Along with Esc.

So all MX-Clears.


----------



## Jalal

opps didnt notice that the site does not give full url. I was talking about the DEck 82 keys AK-B4000. They offer it for 99â‚¬. i've right now also found this in the data sheet: 
Quote:



• Tactile full travel key switches with excellent actuation feeling


So this is cherry clear? they say:

Quote:



Individual mechanical switches with gold cross point contacts (>50 million operations)


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


opps didnt notice that the site does not give full url. I was talking about the DEck 82 keys AK-B4000. They offer it for 99â‚¬. i've right now also found this in the data sheet: 
So this is cherry clear? they say:


The Deck 82 Ice only comes in Linear Switches (MX-Black)


----------



## Jalal

It's not the ice. This model comes in four colors.
So i've found a link: http://www.activekey.de/en/keyboards...gamer-keyboard


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*











Why did they cancel this








Mechanical keyboard + nipple must be so much win


They cancelled the guru board because of economical reasons. Unfortunately making vs manufacturing stuff are extremely different as the latter usually requires huge up-front costs and the guys didn't see enough customers to justify the upcoming costs.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


It's not the ice. This model comes in four colors.
So i've found a link: http://www.activekey.de/en/keyboards...gamer-keyboard


I believe all Deck 82's (regardless of color) are only available in MX Blacks. So they are not MX Clears. They say "tactile full-travel" which is odd, but I assume they mean when you bottom out.


----------



## mondalaci

Hey guys,

I've recently created a mechanical keyboard news channel on Twitter: http://twitter.com/mechkeyboards

My motivation was that I'm pretty much overloaded with information and this thread doesn't get my job easier because I've read about a thousand times how the MX blue / brown / black switches differ. This Twitter channel is for the people who are only interested in the news in their shortest form.

I'd appreciate any news in the future and if someone could eventually maintain it and I wouldn't have to read dozens of posts daily, well, that'd be a dream for me to come true.









Thanks,
Laci


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mondalaci*


They cancelled the guru board because of economical reasons. Unfortunately making vs manufacturing stuff are extremely different as the latter usually requires huge up-front costs and the guys didn't see enough customers to justify the upcoming costs.


Yeah I know, it was more of a mini-rant than a question.


----------



## Jalal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


I believe all Deck 82's (regardless of color) are only available in MX Blacks. So they are not MX Clears. They say "tactile full-travel" which is odd, but I assume they mean when you bottom out.


But the Deck 82 Ice is not part of this model. See comparison:
Deck Ice: http://www.deckkeyboards.com/product...products_id=30
Other: http://www.activekey.de/sites/defaul...Datenblatt.pdf (this model is transparent)

You're probably right, but maybe there is a chance. I've emailed them.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


But the Deck 82 Ice is not part of this model. See comparison:
Deck Ice: http://www.deckkeyboards.com/product...products_id=30
Other: http://www.activekey.de/sites/defaul...Datenblatt.pdf (this model is transparent)

You're probably right, but maybe there is a chance. I've emailed them.


Same board man. Only differences is that the 82 Toxic and Fire models had a worse matrix IIRC.

You can buy a different case to make the outside transparent, or whatever color you desire. http://www.deckkeyboards.com/index.php?cPath=22


----------



## Jalal

Well okay, thank you


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


So yeah it all boils down to how you read it. No harm done. Still want that boxing match?


Nah. I haven't boxed since I shared a room with my brothers.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Hoodcom*


I have finally gotten my new mechanical keyboard. After the first long delay thanks to FedEx loosing it in the mail...









Anyway, I just got the second shipment in today. I like the way it sounds. Sounds pretty cool.

And FREAKING WOW! This thing sure is sensitive! Doesn't take much to accidentally press a key on this while typing... but also I need a better desk surface or something to make it better on me. desk is just a tad too tall... right now I am using it on my lap. lol

I may have to get me more of these keyboards later down the road.

When I find some batteries for the camera I'll take some pictures if any of you want.










Congratulations on your purchase! I have the exact same one!

Now, you can actually take greater advantage of this keyboard's sensitivity and feel thereby further realizing the awesomeness! To do that, try hovering your wrists while typing. Although, I imagine that you might already be doing this since it's on your lap, but still: I find that when I raise my wrists as high as possible without hurting my typing, I get to experience the true awesomeness.







It feels like I'm just floating over the keyboard while typing.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Perhaps. To be honest, I can't complain. I'm getting a free warranty. I just hope the aesthetic condition isn't so bad. I'm not an aesthetics-whore, but I prefer it not look like someone played baseball with it...


Exactly. I always kinda cringe when I see the word "refurbished". To me, that just means that it is used. :/


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Nah. I haven't boxed since I shared a room with my brothers.









Congratulations on your purchase! I have the exact same one!

Now, you can actually take greater advantage of this keyboard's sensitivity and feel thereby further realizing the awesomeness! To do that, try hovering your wrists while typing. Although, I imagine that you might already be doing this since it's on your lap, but still: I find that when I raise my wrists as high as possible without hurting my typing, I get to experience the true awesomeness.







It feels like I'm just floating over the keyboard while typing.

Exactly. I always kinda cringe when I see the word "refurbished". To me, that just means that it is used. :/


But in many ways refurbs are awesome. Guaranteed it was inspected (For new, only 1 in every 500+ or so gets inspected), usually has some sort of warranty (even if it's limited), lower price (if you're purchasing something), etc.


----------



## mondalaci

Guys,

For anyone who wants to read this thread through an atom feed, here's one for you: http://monda.hu/overclock-net-mech-keyboard.xml

The only gitch is that sometimes posts are randomized within very short time intervals which is a very minor issue and doesn't affect the usability seriously.

If anyone is interested in the details about the implementation of this, you can read more on my blog about it: http://monda.hu/blog/2010/08/29/over...ide-atom-feed/

Cheers,
Laci


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mondalaci* 
Guys,

For anyone who wants to read this thread through an atom feed, here's one for you: http://monda.hu/overclock-net-mech-keyboard.xml

The only gitch is that sometimes posts are randomized within very short time intervals which is a very minor issue and doesn't affect the usability seriously.

If anyone is interested in the details about the implementation of this, you can read more on my blog about it: http://monda.hu/blog/2010/08/29/over...ide-atom-feed/

Cheers,
Laci

Wow nice I didn't even know you could do that.


----------



## ripster

I like Geekhack's iSpy. More accurate info. More lolz.

Wanna Switch?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 



Spoiler: Hidden Text Below!


----------



## Crazy9000

Christine is right, my Deck fire does indeed have a grey switch for the spacebar. Grey switch is in the middle, and there are two fake stabalizer switches on the sides.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Christine is right, my Deck fire does indeed have a grey switch for the spacebar. Grey switch is in the middle, and there are two fake stabalizer switches on the sides.

What do you mean fake?

Can you snap a picture of that


----------



## PhaedraCorruption

How is the Flico Zero Tenkeyless with XM Whites? I paid 45 shipped for a used one, am I going to be dissapointed switching from my 200 year old rubber dome?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PhaedraCorruption* 
How is the Flico Zero Tenkeyless with XM Whites? I paid 45 shipped for a used one, am I going to be dissapointed switching from my 200 year old rubber dome?

XM's are supposed to be better than ***ka's and just getting the ABS M1 I was much happier than any rubber dome board I've ever owned. And I had the G11 for awhile.


----------



## Crazy9000

Here's a pic, sorry it's kind of dirty. The two black ones of course aren't real switches, just stabalizers.


----------



## Tator Tot

Oh I thought you meant that they were fake as in not real stabilizers.

But I think those are the type of stabilizers most boards use.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Oh I thought you meant that they were fake as in not real stabilizers.

But I think those are the type of stabilizers most boards use.

I meant fake switch as in they didn't work. My Das keyboard doesn't use them.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I meant fake switch as in they didn't work. My Das keyboard doesn't use them.

What does Das use?


----------



## Crazy9000

Here's some naked pics of the Das

http://monda.hu/blog/2009/05/11/das-...-and-analysis/


----------



## Tator Tot

I totally forgot than some just use the bar. I've never really thought about it.


----------



## Crazy9000

I think the "fake switch" method is better. Some Das' have squeaking problems do to the bar.


----------



## Tator Tot

I don't think I've owned any keyboards with the bar long enough to actually make that happen. I've really only kept boards for 2 months and sold them.

My Tenkeyless Click & Deck I've owned for awhile. And My M1 never gets used any more.


----------



## thiru

I don't care what switch this keyboard uses, I want one!


----------



## runeazn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
PM tankguys and they will do it.

pm, how can i pm tankguys, dont you mean email the website








so email them right?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runeazn* 
pm, how can i pm tankguys, dont you mean email the website








so email them right?

Tankguys has an account here, just pm the user Tankguys and they will work it out. You could email too.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runeazn* 
pm, how can i pm tankguys, dont you mean email the website








so email them right?

TankGuys are on OCN.
http://www.overclock.net/tankguys/

& User Profile.
http://www.overclock.net/member.php?u=25121


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runeazn* 
pm, how can i pm tankguys, dont you mean email the website








so email them right?

Hey runeazn, if you get one, can you get one for me too? We can share the US-EU shipping and I'll pay for the Netherland-France shipping







(and I'll pay for the key too of course)


----------



## runeazn

oh ok,








going to pm them, ill pm you for the details, but srsly i hope its free,
so not, meh ill pay, i hopew shipping is cheaper when they ship 2 of them


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runeazn* 
oh ok,








going to pm them, ill pm you for the details, but srsly i hope its free,
so not, meh ill pay, i hopew shipping is cheaper when they ship 2 of them









It will be when we split the prices









edit: besides, it really should be nothing, I mean you could send these in an envelop... although they might break in that


----------



## Crazy9000

I think they might still offer free shipping, I don't remember. If so, it would be cheaper for you guys to just order your own.

BTW it's page 666 for those of us with default posts per page.


----------



## runeazn

>_>

i've got 666 losses at mw2 in my barracks lol.


----------



## W4LNUT5

67 pages for those who are cool


----------



## De-Zant

333 here.


----------



## TwoCables

67 pages with 100 Posts Per Page.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


67 pages with 100 Posts Per Page.










100ppp FTW!


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Here's some naked pics of the Das

http://monda.hu/blog/2009/05/11/das-...-and-analysis/


I'm gonna replace these low-res pics to high-res ones soon.


----------



## lmnop

Thanks Crazy







looks like the Deck Legend Linear models have a Cherry MX Grey in the spacebar.

I got some more information on the Zowie Celeritas. 

Cherry MX Brown switches
Keycaps are made out of ABS
it has 2 modes Normal Mode (Zowie logo turns Blue) and Game Mode (Zowie Logo turns Red).
Full NKRO (PS/2)


----------



## Marin

I'm really digging the Model M Space Savers. Hmmm...


----------



## Crazy9000

I can't stand buckling springs







.


----------



## lmnop

if Unicomp made a TenKeyLess I would buy one!


----------



## Maytan

I prefer numpads myself. Without them, what would I map media controls to?


----------



## Genkaz92

Good news everyone, I have recently ordered Deck Legend 82 "Ice", and will undoubtedly make a detailed post when it gets here.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genkaz92*


Good news everyone, I have recently ordered Deck Legend 82 "Ice", and will undoubtedly make a detailed post when it gets here.


good news for you..but not for me..until i get my own Deck Keyboard


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genkaz92*


Good news everyone, I have recently ordered Deck Legend 82 "Ice", and will undoubtedly make a detailed post when it gets here.


good for you.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I prefer numpads myself. Without them, what would I map media controls to?


F Keys.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


F Keys.


DERP DERP DERP DERP.

Sometimes I think I'm mentally handicapped, seriously.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


good news for you..but not for me..until i get my own Deck Keyboard











Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


good for you.


I did not mean to sound like an egoist, by good news I meant it from a perspective of reviewing it and giving useful information to other individuals in this thread when it gets here.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genkaz92*


I did not mean to sound like an egoist, by good news I meant it from a perspective of reviewing it and giving useful information to other individuals in this thread when it gets here.


I meant nothing by it. it's not everyday somebody buys a Deck. I don't think I have heard of anyone returning a Deck before. Deck and Topre are really in a class of they're own. I already know everything about the Deck Legend and Deck 82. I would be more interested in reading a experience with the Deck 82 from somebody who knows nothing about mechanical keyboards.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I meant nothing by it. it's not everyday somebody buys a Deck. I don't think I have heard of anyone returning a Deck before. Deck and Topre are really in a class of they're own. I already know everything about the Deck Legend and Deck 82. I would be more interested in reading a experience with the Deck 82 from somebody who knows nothing about mechanical keyboards.


I actually do posses basic knowledge from the informative guide thread that we are posting in, but you are indeed correct in me being a new comer to this curious world of high quality typing computer peripherals.


----------



## lmnop

when somebody buys a mechanical keyboard for the first time the impulse to buy another or start collecting them is strong.

you may be interested in buying a Das Model S Professional or Filco Majestouch Tactile Click to type with. you can buy a KvM switch and connect both into it so you can type with the Das Model S Professional or Filco Majestouch Tactile Click and game with the Deck 82 Ice.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


when somebody buys a mechanical keyboard for the first time the impulse to buy another or start collecting them is strong.

you may be interested in buying a Das Model S Professional or Filco Majestouch Tactile Click to type with. you can buy a KvM switch and connect both into it so you can type with the Das Model S Professional or Filco Majestouch Tactile Click and game with the Deck 82 Ice.


The appearance of such an impulse is indeed not impossible, but so far I am planning to have the Deck as my single trustworthy typing companion which will hopefully last me atleast 10 years. I simply enjoy the idea of having a long lasting peripheral under my sleeve which would always be around me such as this one.


----------



## Manyak

Only very few people stop at just one mech keyboard







. Not because you _need_ to buy more, but because they're just that awesome lol.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


when somebody buys a mechanical keyboard for the first time the impulse to buy another or start collecting them is strong.

you may be interested in buying a Das Model S Professional or Filco Majestouch Tactile Click to type with. you can buy a KvM switch and connect both into it so you can type with the Das Model S Professional or Filco Majestouch Tactile Click and game with the Deck 82 Ice.


Or just get the Deck as PS/2 (for NKRO and speed, since it'll most likely be the gaming one) and use the rest over USB. You can connect pretty much as many boards as you want that way.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genkaz92*


The appearance of such an impulse is indeed not impossible, but so far I am planning to have the Deck as my single trustworthy typing companion which will hopefully last me atleast 10 years. I simply enjoy the idea of having a long lasting peripheral under my sleeve which would always be around me such as this one.


Wait until you get it








, you'll want more. Everyone does.

After spending $180 on my Deck, I was sure I'd never need to buy another keyboard again. However, I will tell you that if I had the money right now I'd own 10 different ones just because I could. lol


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Only very few people stop at just one mech keyboard







. Not because you _need_ to buy more, but because they're just that awesome lol.

Or just get the Deck as PS/2 (for gaming) and use the rest over USB. You can connect pretty much as many boards as you want that way.


I thought you couldn't use 2 keyboards at once you need a KvM switch to switch over?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I thought you couldn't use 2 keyboards at once you need a KvM switch to switch over?


Only if you want them both to use PS/2.


----------



## Marin

So what program should I use for creating media keys?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


So what program should I use for creating media keys?


SharpKeys is the easiest.


----------



## Smelrond

Cheers to everyone, I am new here.
Awesome post ! I am the proud owner of two IBM mechanical keyboards, both with PS adapters. I dont remember how I got the first keyboard, maybe I bought it a long while ago with my first PC a 286 12Mhz.
As for the second one, once I realized how good the keyboard was and what rubbish was being sold as modern keyboard, I've found it near a trash can hahahahaha. You should have seen my wife face as I recovered it and put it under my arm.
The only think I really think these keyboard lack is the wireless function. I have seen a link for filco keyboards in one of the pages of the thread but it seems filco doesnd do that anymore or maybe I did not find it.
Can anyone please help me finding a wireless mechanical keyboard?
Thank you
Smelrond


----------



## lmnop

welcome







someone e-mailed Diatec in January to inquire about the Filco Majestouch Bluetooth and Diatec said it's in development.


----------



## lmnop

the first Filco Majestouch Bluetooth was sold in Asia because it wasn't FCC compliant, there was a problem with the Bluetooth chip so they are designing a new one.


----------



## Smelrond

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
welcome







someone e-mailed Diatec in January to inquire about the Filco Majestouch Bluetooth and Diatec said it's in development.

Thanks
Smelrond


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
the first Filco Majestouch Bluetooth was sold in Asia because it wasn't FCC compliant, there was a problem with the Bluetooth chip so they are designing a new one.

Hmmm, that sounds awesome. Wireless mech? yes please.


----------



## runeazn

lol nice wireless mech


----------



## lmnop

I think it had a standard matrix. can't have full n-key rollover over wireless.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I think it had a standard matrix. can't have full n-key rollover over wireless.

Well you COULD, but it would have to be a proprietary thing. Not bluetooth.


----------



## ripster

You guys really need more than 6 keys (and modifiers) at a time? You playing those crazy asian music games or something?

Warning: Youtube PC Game video with music sung by Japanese Female Chipmunks and Swedish Lyrics.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
You guys really need more than 6 keys (and modifiers) at a time? You playing those crazy asian music games or something?

Warning: Youtube PC Game video with music sung by Japanese Female Chipmunks and Swedish Lyrics.





nope. but in your face my biological father.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
you guys really need more than 6 keys (and modifiers) at a time? You playing those crazy asian music games or something?

Warning: Youtube pc game video with music sung by japanese female chipmunks and swedish lyrics.





it burns it burns it burns it burns it burns


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
You guys really need more than 6 keys (and modifiers) at a time? You playing those crazy asian music games or something?

Warning: Youtube PC Game video with music sung by Japanese Female Chipmunks and Swedish Lyrics.





That only has 4







.He would need to be playing p1 and p2 at the same time to go over 6.

In a worst case scenario I'll hit 7 keys in THPS, but not too often.


----------



## lmnop

clunk clunk clack clack clack lol


----------



## lmnop

I am easily impressed









I was in the mall this morning and this guy wasn't paying attention, he walked right into me with his taco. ugh


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I am easily impressed









I was in the mall this morning and this guy wasn't paying attention, he walked right into me with his taco. ugh

Wait, so he got taco all over you? Bwahaha, yum. I love Mexican food.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Wait, so he got taco all over you? Bwahaha, yum. I love Mexican food.

don't laugh at my misfortune









I called him a moron and he kept saying "I am sorry!"


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
don't laugh at my misfortune









I called him a moron and he kept saying "I am sorry!"

Heck you should have positioned your mouth better so when he ran into you, you could of just ate the damn thing. Mnn taco.


----------



## lmnop

I know I am short but I am way past the cut off point for hobbit or oompa loompa









****ing neanderthal.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


don't laugh at my misfortune









I called him a moron and he kept saying "I am sorry!"


Hey, I'm just glad it's not me for once.







At least he was apologetic...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Heck you should have positioned your mouth better so when he ran into you, you could of just ate the damn thing. Mnn taco.


Haha, win idea.


----------



## thisispatrick

Well if you missed the taco you could've gotten something else.


----------



## lmnop

I had my doc martens on I should of kicked him in the shin at the very least! anyways I have to go take a shower I smell like peaches and taco meat.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I am easily impressed









I was in the mall this morning and this guy wasn't paying attention, he walked right into me with his taco. ugh

I can't resist. Must post this video. . .


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
I can't resist. Must post this video. . .




LOL. I remember this. I don't know what it is, but the commercial is hilarious.


----------



## Jarmel

Using the Deck right now and honestly this isn't a world of difference.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jarmel* 
Using the Deck right now and honestly this isn't a world of difference.

as opposed to?


----------



## Jarmel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
as opposed to?

g19


----------



## GeforceGTS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jarmel*


g19


You don't happen to suffer from vibration white finger do you? ;x


----------



## thisispatrick

If you seriously don't feel a difference between a G19 and a Deck then you should just stick with the regular membraney stuff.


----------



## Manyak

The guide has been updated a bit. Added matrix info, and fixed most of the images of the keyboards. Still got plenty to go though.


----------



## lmnop

the force graph for Cherry MX Brown is wrong. actuation point and tactile point are in the wrong place.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the force graph for Cherry MX Brown is wrong. actuation point and tactile point are in the wrong place.


I know but that's the one they have on their site


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
I know but that's the one they have on their site









The Deck 82 doesn't have controllable LED's

Quote:

On the 82-key and 21-key Deck, the default brightness is level 7, or on at full brightness. This default brightness level is stored in ROM and cannot be changed.


----------



## lmnop

lol Tator you on the pipe again? you can change the brightness level for Deck 82. I am not sure what that has to do with Manyak question.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
lol Tator you on the pipe again? you can change the brightness level for Deck 82. I am not sure what that has to do with Manyak question.

Accounting has fried my brain I think.

I read the LED thing wrong. And I meant to hit quick-quote on another post even









I think I'm gonna take a nap with my Deck and then come back at a later time with some herbal tea.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I think I'm gonna take a nap with my Deck and then come back at a later time with some herbal tea.


Another point for the Deck, it makes an excellent teddy bear?









For the guide, I suggest trying to migrate away from any "third party" pictures as much as possible, given the popularity it's been receiving. A lot of the pics are just stock shots you found on geekhack, right? I can send you any pics you need of the Deck, das, or Realforce.


----------



## maximus7651000

I'm considering picking up a Deck Legend (Ice) tactile version keyboard and was wondering what any of you might recommend as far as switches. Cherry black maybe? I do game a lot and use a Merc Stealth board for that but the integrated number pad is somewhat annoying for my everyday tasks so I would like to go back to a good mechanical keyboard for everyday normal use as well as gaming. I am also considering the PS2 option vs. USB


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *maximus7651000*


I'm considering picking up a Deck Legend (Ice) tactile version keyboard and was wondering what any of you might recommend as far as switches. Cherry black maybe? I do game a lot and use a Merc Stealth board for that but the integrated number pad is somewhat annoying for my everyday tasks so I would like to go back to a good mechanical keyboard for everyday normal use as well as gaming. I am also considering the PS2 option vs. USB


I've got a Frost Tactile with a PS/2 connector and I whole heatedly recommend it. I game on it every day and honestly it's very nice. And probably the best balance between gaming & typing I've ever used.

Also yes, "Deck Legend 105 & Deck 82 Keyboards can be used as snuggle buddies"


----------



## lmnop

Manyak you should find a software and make your own force graphs.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *maximus7651000*


I'm considering picking up a Deck Legend (Ice) tactile version keyboard and was wondering what any of you might recommend as far as switches. Cherry black maybe? I do game a lot and use a Merc Stealth board for that but the integrated number pad is somewhat annoying for my everyday tasks so I would like to go back to a good mechanical keyboard for everyday normal use as well as gaming. I am also considering the PS2 option vs. USB


you should definitely select PS/2 as your native connection.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quick question popped in my head.
Since my Das uses 2 usb wires. Is there some way I could get it to work with the PS2 port?
I do have one of these but I'm not sure how this works out.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

You need to update the bit on doubleshots, Cherry officially announced the discontinuation of all doubleshot models. Only TG3 (Deck) still makes keyboards with doubleshot keycaps; and Signature Plastics and Fentek Industries make custom doubleshot keycaps.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Quick question popped in my head.
Since my Das uses 2 usb wires. Is there some way I could get it to work with the PS2 port?
I do have one of these but I'm not sure how this works out.










Yes you can, one cable is the USB Cable for the two USB ports on the board itself. The other is for the actual keyboard.

The only boards I know with "issues" regarding to USB & PS2 adapters are Deck's.


----------



## lmnop

Mechanical Keyboard Guide started as Guide but now it's like a book of random information. need a sense of direction. point A-Z. like when I lay the Deck hammer on people


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Yes you can, one cable is the USB Cable for the two USB ports on the board itself. The other is for the actual keyboard.

The only boards I know with "issues" regarding to USB & PS2 adapters are Deck's.


Ah and... it works! No wonder. I sat here months ago wondering why it wouldn't work. Gave up in the end. Oh well. No biggie. Thanks for the help!

I'm so stupid sometimes .-.


----------



## maximus7651000

I just ordered the Deck Legend Ice (tactile) PS/2 version so it should be here in a couple days.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Ah and... it works! No wonder. I sat here months ago wondering why it wouldn't work. Gave up in the end. Oh well. No biggie. Thanks for the help!

I'm so stupid sometimes .-.


Don't worry man. I always ask questions about stuff before I go in guns a blazin. Gotta collect information to be a Guru









Quote:



Originally Posted by *maximus7651000*


I just ordered the Deck Legend Ice (tactile) PS/2 version so it should be here in a couple days.










Frost > Ice









It's an amazing piece of hardware. You will not be disappointed. I kinda wish the Fire came with MX-Clears


----------



## maximus7651000

Yeah I debated about 10 minutes between the Frost and Ice....I really like both a lot.


----------



## lmnop

I like Frost but I wish it came with Cherry MX Black Linear


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*











I like Frost but I wish it came with Cherry MX Black Linear










Which is interesting because I like the Ice 82 but I wish it came with anything but Cherry MX Black Linear


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


Which is interesting because I like the Ice 82 but I wish it came with anything but Cherry MX Black Linear










You guys could each buy the color you want then trade switches.

lol


----------



## nmatavka

I contacted Maltron re: their key switches, among other things, and this is what they had to say (emphasis mine):

Ladies and Gentlemen:

A few months ago, I was fortunate enough to come across a classic
Maltron with an AT connector and a broken key, which you have been
kind enough to provide at your own expense (thank you!), and you have,
in the process, given me the solution to ten years of wrist pain. I
am very satisfied with my (pre-owned, freebie) Maltron as well as your
customer service; you actually live up to the second word in that job
description, and take the time to serve your customers---something
which mass-manufacturers such as Kinesis and Microsoft can lack.

Since becoming familiar with this keyboard, I have also become quite
curious about your firm; there is a mum-and-dad feel about your
operation which I do not notice with other manufacturers (even
special-purpose and ergonomic) of keyboards, which leads me to suspect
that this is a small business, and possibly family-run as my keyboard
is autographed by one R. W. Hobday. Do the founders still manage the
company?

Strengths and possible improvements: As well as the obvious strengths
of this product, a notable strength is that the keys are of the flat
variety; this way, if I wish to convert from QWERTY to Dvorak and
back, it is not a big problem for me. Another definite strength is
the fact that you use Cherry switches; however, I would be even more
glad to see you using blue switches instead of black ones (there is a
better tactile feel). Even better, how about offering Maltrons in
both a tactile/auditory (blue Cherry) and tactile (brown Cherry) form?

Yours sincerely,
Nick Matavka.

> On 30 August 2010 07:42, Stephen hobday <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Dear Nick,
>>
>> Thank you for a very kind letter. I`m glad we were able to be of help in
>> getting rid of your RSI problem. I`m also a little curious about the
>> history of your keyboard. Can you please let me know the serial No and how
>> you came to find it. I would like to use your story in our publicity, both
>> to pass to our press man and on our web site as a User report. May I have
>> your permission to do this please.
>>
>>
>>
>> As you guess my wife Pam & I have run the Co since`85 from our home. Only
>> recently we have passed on the day-day running to Martin O`Donovan as our
>> General Manager, and established an Office in Stafford as we have now moved
>> to this area. Our new web site www.maltron-sales.com gives full details
>> of the Office address. *Regarding other types of keys, I did offer the use
>> of other Cherry keys in the past but no one was significantly interested so
>> I have not bothered to do so. * I`ll be happy to make you a special if you
>> want one. You mention the Dvorak layout, have you thought about using our
>> Maltron layout ? There should be a key on your keyboard which gives you
>> instant access to this !! and a layout diagram is on our web site, if there
>> was no handbook with your keyboard as is likely.
>>
>> Where are you based ?
>>
>>
>>
>> I look forward to hearing from you.
>>
>>
>>
>> With best wishes,
>>
>> Stephen.
>>
>> (S not R)
>

Dear Mr Hobday:

I have communicated with Martin in the past, and I have found him to
be of great use. You certainly exercise great prudence in selecting
your management.*

Regarding the use of blue-stemmed Cherries, it would be wise, perhaps,
to simply transition to the use of this switch (optionally allowing
the use of the brown and black switches) as it is widely considered
the best switch for typing. The black-stemmed Cherries are excellent
for gaming, but extremely poor for typing. See
http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...ard-guide.html
for details.*

My keyboard says "Maltron Keyboard Plug Compatible For IBM dumb
terminals 3192/3272 and IBM personal computers" in hand lettering.
There is no QWERTY/MALTRON key on the keyboard. Instead, there is a
QWERTY/NUMBER key, which transforms the left hand side of the keyboard
into a num pad.

Type: DGTCQ
Serial No.: 2077
Switchable PC <=> DT

I found the keyboard under the stairs, and I had heard of Maltron at
this point, so I was eager to use it. Martin sent me a User Guide so
I am fine in that regard.

I am based both in Toronto, Canada and in Kensington, England. You
certainly have my permission to use my story as you please.

Cordially,
Nick Matavka.

P.S.: Who did your Web site? As a part-time Web designer, I cringed
whenever I went to your interesting but crusty Web home. This is much
better---I couldn't do a better job!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Another point for the Deck, it makes an excellent teddy bear?









For the guide, I suggest trying to migrate away from any "third party" pictures as much as possible, given the popularity it's been receiving. A lot of the pics are just stock shots you found on geekhack, right? I can send you any pics you need of the Deck, das, or Realforce.

I'm actually working on that already. The only problem is that I don't have a proper digital camera (DSLR w/ macro lens), nor do I have a photo booth with flash umbrellas and an illuminated background, nor do I have a digital microscope to get up close and personal with the keycap printing. So the best I can do is what I'm trying to do with the keyboard pics. Like if you look at the first couple of them, they're all taken at the same angle and don't have a background (except for the iRocks one, which I couldn't find).

Then again, a DSLR might not be a bad investment anyway.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Manyak you should find a software and make your own force graphs.

The software's the easy part, I'd just need some sort of machine that can press down on the key gradually and record how much pressure the switch is putting on it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
You need to update the bit on doubleshots, Cherry officially announced the discontinuation of all doubleshot models. Only TG3 (Deck) still makes keyboards with doubleshot keycaps; and Signature Plastics and Fentek Industries make custom doubleshot keycaps.

Well that just sucks









Thanks for letting me know though.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Mechanical Keyboard Guide started as Guide but now it's like a book of random information. need a sense of direction. point A-Z. like when I lay the Deck hammer on people









That can be done, but at this point it's easier to put all the info into it and THEN reorganize


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I have an optical microscope, which my grandfather gave me after he retired (he was a Biology and Chemistry teacher at U of Cincinnati). I'll see how well my point&shoot can take pictures through it.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Damn, even at 4x magnification the tiny ` symbol is HUGE.







I'm gonna take a look at the GeekHack key under this...


----------



## Marin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
I'm actually working on that already. The only problem is that I don't have a proper digital camera (DSLR w/ macro lens), nor do I have a photo booth with flash umbrellas and an illuminated background, nor do I have a digital microscope to get up close and personal with the keycap printing. So the best I can do is what I'm trying to do with the keyboard pics. Like if you look at the first couple of them, they're all taken at the same angle and don't have a background (except for the iRocks one, which I couldn't find).

Then again, a DSLR might not be a bad investment anyway.


Send me stuff and I'll take pics.


----------



## ripster

Jeez. Obsoleting my pictures already - they don't even have my obnoxious watermark!

Anyway, this was always one of my favorites. I used this trick to power up in Oblivion all the time.









I shoot the macro shot with Dexter's rig - but with a D200 body.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

This is beautiful. But I need someone to hold the flashlight, so I can't take pictures right now. Still, though... Damn I'm good.


----------



## Crazy9000

lol ripster, I used to do that too in oblivion. Just find a dumb rat in a cave, then sneak against the wall. You had to come back every once in awhile though, to click okay to the level up screen.


----------



## Marin

http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-Model-M-Spac...#ht_557wt_1137

Yes or no.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-Model-M-Spac...#ht_557wt_1137

Yes or no.

It may hurt your brain switching from the HHKB straight to buckling springs. lol


----------



## Marin

Well I'm already switching between two switches, so what harm could one more do.


----------



## Jarmel

After messing around with the Deck, I'm starting to like it. It's somewhat different and the clicking sensation is somewhat nice. What's amusing for me is that I actually don't bottom out for the most part unless I'm really trying as I thought I would do that alot coming from a rubberdome.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jarmel*


After messing around with the Deck, I'm starting to like it. It's somewhat different and the clicking sensation is somewhat nice. What's amusing for me is that I actually don't bottom out for the most part unless I'm really trying as I thought I would do that alot coming from a rubberdome.


I'm glad to hear it. They can take a little while getting used to. I'm sure in a few weeks you won't be able to consider going back to the logitech







.


----------



## klaxian

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jarmel*


What's amusing for me is that I actually don't bottom out for the most part unless I'm really trying as I thought I would do that alot coming from a rubberdome.


Yah, I think that goes with the MX white switches because they require a higher force than others. I enjoy mine as well


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Oy Manyak

One more correction, for the XArmor, I've already filled out the info.

*iOne Xarmor U9BL*









*Link:* http://www.ione.com.tw
*Price:* $150-$170
*Switch Type:* MX Blue (Brown version upcoming)
*Switch Mounting:* Plate
*Keycap Printing:* Dye sublimation, overlaid with a rubber coating with the letter laser engraved from it
*Key Shape:* 
*Interface:* PS/2 and USB
*Rollover:* NKRO
*Layout:* US ANSI
*Extra Features:* Individual LED backlight for each key, USB hub, pass-through 3.5mm audio/mic jacks, media keys, detachable wrist rest
*Drawbacks:* Some concerns about keycap durability
*Other:*


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


So what program should I use for creating media keys?


I personally recommend SharpKeys (http://sharpkeys.codeplex.com/) because it's extremely simple. Perhaps the best thing about it is that it's just a Registry editor; it doesn't need to stay open in order to keep your configurations. The downside is that it doesn't do macros - just individual keys.

This is my current configuration:










This is what you see when you click "Add":










This is what you see when you click "Type Key" (in the left column since that is where to begin):










This is what happens when a key is pressed:










So if I click "OK", then it selects the 'T' key. After that, I choose a key to map it to over in the right-hand column. Now I _could_ just select the 'T' key manually, but this is a handy feature just in case I'm having trouble finding it in the column.

And so this is what happens when I press my Keypad + (the Plus key):



















Now, there's also KeyboardLink (http://sourceforge.net/projects/keyboardlink/), but I don't know if it needs to remain open in the background or not. However, it's just another very simple program (unlike AutoHotKey).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


The guide has been updated a bit. Added matrix info, and fixed most of the images of the keyboards. Still got plenty to go though.


Just to nit-pick a little bit, the picture of the Das Model S has to be updated too.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *maximus7651000*


I just ordered the Deck Legend Ice (tactile) PS/2 version so it should be here in a couple days.










This has the Cherry MX Clears; you will be very, very happy with this keyboard!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I'm actually working on that already. The only problem is that I don't have a proper digital camera (DSLR w/ macro lens), nor do I have a photo booth with flash umbrellas and an illuminated background, nor do I have a digital microscope to get up close and personal with the keycap printing. So the best I can do is what I'm trying to do with the keyboard pics. Like if you look at the first couple of them, they're all taken at the same angle and don't have a background (except for the iRocks one, which I couldn't find).

Then again, a DSLR might not be a bad investment anyway.


I believe that all you really need is a decent point & shoot that has a relatively good Macro capability. Beyond that, a photo booth, flash umbrellas and all of that other fancy stuff isn't really necessary. However, I do appreciate the desire for the best possible photos.

But I mean, I'll use the example of my parents' point & shoot which is the Canon PowerShot G10. Now, this may be about a $500 point & shoot, but it's the only example I have: this camera's Macro shots are amazing to me even though I don't have a basis for comparison. I can get the lens about 1 inch away from the subject and yet I _still_ get a crystal clear shot. So this would be perfect for those fantastic close-ups of keycap printing, coating and other such shots.

So, I'm saying that if there's a lower-cost camera out there that can do Macro shots that are about this good, then I say go for it.

Actually, if you want some example shots, then I am willing to take some! But again, this is about a $500 point & shoot. :/

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jarmel*


After messing around with the Deck, I'm starting to like it. It's somewhat different and the clicking sensation is somewhat nice. What's amusing for me is that I actually don't bottom out for the most part unless I'm really trying as I thought I would do that alot coming from a rubberdome.


Please forgive my nit-picking, but what you're hearing isn't clicking, but rather "clacking". I mean, in the context of mechanical keyboards, the phrase "_clicking_ sensation" can only apply to the sound of a keyswitch such as the Cherry MX Blues, or the Buckling Springs (and a few others). So the sound you're hearing is always called "clacky", or "clacking", etc. I mean, the switches in the Deck don't click.

I apologize for being so anal about it, but I am hoping to avoid any possible confusion for the uninitiated who might happen to find this thread with Google or something.


----------



## Jarmel

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Please forgive my nit-picking, but what you're hearing isn't clicking, but rather "clacking". I mean, in the context of mechanical keyboards, the phrase "_clicking_ sensation" can only apply to the sound of a keyswitch such as the Cherry MX Blues, or the Buckling Springs (and a few others). So the sound you're hearing is always called "clacky", or "clacking", etc. I mean, the switches in the Deck don't click.

I apologize for being so anal about it, but I am hoping to avoid any possible confusion for the uninitiated who might happen to find this thread with Google or something.










Fair enough although I'm not really hearing anything but rather feeling it. I'm guessing it's the tactile bump but I used click as it feels like a mouse click in a way.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jarmel*


Fair enough although I'm not really hearing anything but rather feeling it. I'm guessing it's the tactile bump but I used click as it feels like a mouse click in a way.


Oh, that's why you said "sensation". Yeah, that's the tactile feedback!


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
Well I'm already switching between two switches, so what harm could one more do.









If you go from Buckling Spring to Topre, it feels like you are typing on some Dell rubber dome board...


----------



## runeazn

the razer is almost


----------



## Jawwwwsh

I'm thinking of buying a mechanical keyboard for a new mac I just bought, but would like to keep it relatively cheap and I'm in the UK, any suggestions from the Keyboard Gurus??


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
*Capacitive Switch*









A capacitor is formed by the use of two conductive plates separated by a dielectric (something that doesn't conduct electricity) with a potential difference (voltage) applied between them. When this voltage exists, the area in between the two plates will hold a charge. This is called the capacitance. There are many variables that affect it, but the equation we're interested in is:








Where _C_ is the capacitance, _A_ is the area of each plate, ε is the permittivity of the dielectric (don't worry if you don't know what that is), and - what we're most interested in here - _d_, the distance between the plates. As _d_ decreases, the capacitance increases. And that is exactly what happens when you press down on a capacitive switch.








This image is a diagram of the simplest method of creating a capacitive switch. The oscillator produces a sine wave with a PLL (Phase Lock Loop) controlling the frequency.

Perhaps worth noting is that in all the relevant capacitive switches - Topre, Model F Buckling Springs, Beam Springs, you have two fixed contacts on a PCB (IIRC one hooked up to an oscillator, and the other hooked up to some sort of sensor). The switch has some sort of uncharged conductive contact (a carbonized plastic hammer in the case of the Buckling and Beam Spring, and a conical metal spring in the case of the Topre) which forms a three-way capacitor with the two contacts underneath it (If you have two charged contacts seperated from an uncharged conductor by a dielectric, it is equivalent to having two capacitors wired in series). Pressing the switch changes the distance which alters the capacitance which is picked up by the controller.

The advantage with such a mechanism is that you don't need to hook the switch's contact to the PCB, which makes the thing easier to manufacture.


----------



## Shrimpykins

Woah... That is all I have to say... I just got an e-mail back from Deck about the Legend.

I have this black and white build I am doing and wanted a mouse/keyboard to match. My g15 is old and I wanted to try a mechanical keyboard.

I am going to paint the handgrip for my G9 mouse white and leave the rest black and then take the Deck (Fire) and leave the deck symbol grey and the keys black but paint the rest (housing) white. They even said they would still warranty it if I painted the damn thing! They just got my business, that is for sure!


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shrimpykins* 
Woah... That is all I have to say... I just got an e-mail back from Deck about the Legend.

I have this black and white build I am doing and wanted a mouse/keyboard to match. My g15 is old and I wanted to try a mechanical keyboard.

I am going to paint the handgrip for my G9 mouse white and leave the rest black and then take the Deck (Fire) and leave the deck symbol grey and the keys black but paint the rest (housing) white. They even said they would still warranty it if I painted the damn thing! They just got my business, that is for sure!

They seem to be awesome about stuff like that.

<3


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jawwwwsh* 
I'm thinking of buying a mechanical keyboard for a new mac I just bought, but would like to keep it relatively cheap and I'm in the UK, any suggestions from the Keyboard Gurus??

Search eBay for an Apple Extended Keyboard II, they've got dampened white Alps which are supposed to be in the same league as Cherry switches. Might need an ADB/PS/2 converter, but hey; why not get an Apple mechanical keyboard for an Apple computer?









There's this one:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Macintosh-Appl...ac_Accessories

A bit yellowed, a bottle of Retrobrite should take care of that.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shrimpykins* 
Woah... That is all I have to say... I just got an e-mail back from Deck about the Legend.

I have this black and white build I am doing and wanted a mouse/keyboard to match. My g15 is old and I wanted to try a mechanical keyboard.

I am going to paint the handgrip for my G9 mouse white and leave the rest black and then take the Deck (Fire) and leave the deck symbol grey and the keys black but paint the rest (housing) white. They even said they would still warranty it if I painted the damn thing! They just got my business, that is for sure!

like this?










don't forget Deck has Blank Keycaps for sale at Performance-PCS.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shrimpykins*


Woah... That is all I have to say... I just got an e-mail back from Deck about the Legend.

I have this black and white build I am doing and wanted a mouse/keyboard to match. My g15 is old and I wanted to try a mechanical keyboard.

I am going to paint the handgrip for my G9 mouse white and leave the rest black and then take the Deck (Fire) and leave the deck symbol grey and the keys black but paint the rest (housing) white. They even said they would still warranty it if I painted the damn thing! They just got my business, that is for sure!


Yeah Deck is AWESOME about their warranty. As long as you don't damage it in the process (like break the PCB in half or something) they even _encourage_ you to mod it. They even used to have the circuit diagrams to their boards on their site, and showed you where to solder/desolder when you wanted to do stuff. I dunno if you can still find that info from them though, I think they removed it when they remodeled their site.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


like this?










don't forget Deck has Blank Keycaps for sale at Performance-PCS.


The font on those keycaps is SO much cleaner!


----------



## House Cat

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


deck keyboard image
.


the font on those keyboards is terrible, i really don't like it.


----------



## klaxian

Quote:



Originally Posted by *House Cat*


the font on those keyboards is terrible, i really don't like it.


Have you seen one in person or just from pictures? I wasn't too fond of the font from the pictures either. However, when I got my board and saw it for real, it's actually very slick looking IMHO.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *House Cat*


the font on those keyboards is terrible, i really don't like it.


I don't even notice it anymore. Font is the last thing I worry about in my keyboard.

Off-topic: I think I'm about to be in the market for another keyboard that I can use at work







(because I finally found a job). I need something quiet, so Browns, or an Alps equivalent.
That is if they don't have a problem with me bringing in my own keyboard


----------



## wr3ck3dm1nd

does elitekeyboards no longer carry the printed keys for the filco majestouch keyboard (aside from the WSAD keys)


----------



## W4LNUT5

how rare are blue alps sliders?

And should I buy one if I found it for $71?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


how rare are blue alps sliders?

And should I buy one if I found it for $71?


what is the Keyboard?


----------



## ch_123

Word is that Unicomp is now gluing the sheets in their Model M membranes together to make them waterproof, which is pretty much the same thing done on specialized water-proof keyboards.

Advice dog approves -


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


what is the Keyboard?


Magitronic K-156

Nevermind. They came up on an alps search, but they are actually cherry's.


----------



## lmnop

looks like Diatec stopped making Otaku models.


----------



## ch_123

Sauce?


----------



## lmnop




----------



## Marin

You jest?


----------



## ch_123

You know what I mean... I haven't seen any announcements about it by Brian at Elitekeyboards.com


----------



## geoxile

I have to ask, how are Alps Blacks? I'm interested in those old AT101Ws and ABS M1s if I can find em. I want to do a white gloss mirror top paint


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


You know what I mean... I haven't seen any announcements about it by Brian at Elitekeyboards.com


a member at geekhack contacted Diatec.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EvilSaint*


So, I've been lurking for ~one week now, grabbing boatloads of great information and maddening myself while trying to make a decision on a mechanical keyboard to buy for medium/heavy gaming and heavy typing. I'm all about hardware "enthusiasm", but I never got into keyboards/mice as much as most "gamers" do - I would mention what I'm typing this post on, but it's too embarrassing.

Anyway, long story short, I finally ordered a Filco Majestouch 104K (I'd climb the walls without a 10-key) with Cherry Browns and NKRO. However, unfortunately, *I got an email back from the Filco salespeople stating that they are no long making the Otaku versions of their keyboards.* This didn't seem like much of an issue, seeing as how one would (in theory) only have to replace the key caps with blank ones. Then, I tried to find a place to order the blank keycaps and... yeah, absolutely not happening. 15 pages of Google results later and I'm reaching out for help - what options do I have for blank key caps and a DIY Otaku version?

I checked out the mods section, but the only method that I found was sandblasting. While I already have an air compressor and don't mind buying the attachment to do the blasting itself, I can't for the life of me find out what kind of lettering is on the Filco caps, but I would assume that it's not "sandblastable" =(

Anyway, any ideas are very welcome. TIA!


it doesn't change anything unless they stop making the Blank Keycaps.


----------



## Marin

So what motivates the weeaboos to get one?


----------



## ch_123

Black Alps are pretty mediocre, being friction-y, high force and with unimpressive tactility. All the pressure is at the top of the switch, and when you over come it, it bottoms out hard. They used to hurt my hands if I typed on them too long...


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Black Alps are pretty mediocre, being friction-y, high force and with unimpressive tactility. All the pressure is at the top of the switch, and when you over come it, it bottoms out hard. They used to hurt my hands if I typed on them too long...


Thanks. Noted. I was looking at those as well.


----------



## ch_123

It isn't just me who thinks that by the way. You'll have a hard time finding anyone on Geekhack who has anything good to say for them.

Supposedly the Black ***kas used in the ABS M1 are worse than the ones used in the AT101W.

'Black ***kas,' oh dear...


----------



## Marin

The ABS M1 is good at being hated.


----------



## ch_123

In fairness, at $20 it was a good choice. But when it was originally sold at like $90 with the blatant false advertising and all the problems it had, people were like "LOLFAIL"


----------



## W4LNUT5

lol @ $133 shipping for an MX Red board

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cherry-G80-3494-...item3f012d213c

Still not a horrible price overall for a Red board as the total is under 200


----------



## Marin

Ordered five.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


lol @ $133 shipping for an MX Red board

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cherry-G80-3494-...item3f012d213c

Still not a horrible price overall for a Red board as the total is under 200


That's a pretty good deal. I got the beige version of that board for $150 + Shipping (like $25 outta Asia.)

Though, I can say the Red's are not as nice as I was expecting. They're close to the clears. But require less force so obvious easier to bottom out if you're used to the clears in terms of force.

EDIT: Mis read shipping, $133 WTH?!?!?!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


That's a pretty good deal. I got the beige version of that board for $150 + Shipping (like $25 outta Asia.)

Though, I can say the Red's are not as nice as I was expecting. They're close to the clears. But require less force so obvious easier to bottom out if you're used to the clears in terms of force.

EDIT: Mis read shipping, $133 WTH?!?!?!


Yeah, but it makes the overall price about the same as yours.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Yeah, but it makes the overall price about the same as yours.


That's true. But still; seems a bit backwards pricing wise.


----------



## geoxile

Crap, then what's a good cheap mechanical keyboard that's not spring switched.

Also no alps since they apparently suck


----------



## W4LNUT5

I believe this acer is black alps sliders, but I'm not sure (a few others I've seen have been, don't know about this model number though). Cheap if someone wanted to clean it up (I'm thinking about it, but can't confirm its an alps or copy)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Acer-6511-KW-PC-...item1c151cb5f2


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *geoxile*


Crap, then what's a good cheap mechanical keyboard that's not spring switched.

Also no alps since they apparently suck


Adesso MKB-135B or 125B

iOne Scorpious M10

iRocks KR6230


----------



## lmnop

Acer 6511 is a rubber dome.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Acer 6511 is a rubber dome.


Sadface, I figured it was.

Which Acer board was the mechanical? (6311?)


----------



## geoxile

Hmm, I heard Ione's M10s had quality issues though I am using a keyboard from their Xarmor branch, the iRocks is a bit too much for a secondary keyboard. The 135B looks nice. What switches do the M10 and 135B use? And are alps white ok? And what keyboards use them?


----------



## lmnop

there is a Focus 2001 on eBay. starting bid is $24. it has a Windows Key, Complicated Alps in White.

also a SGI Granite on eBay for $38 Buy. Complicated Alps in White with rubber dampers.

don't let that SGI Granite get away.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Sadface, I figured it was.

Which Acer board was the mechanical? (6311?)












some kind of slider over rubber. vintage rubber dome. Dell QuietKey has something like this.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


http://www.vanspankeren.com/Keyboards/images/Acer_2.jpg//img]

some kind of slider over rubber. vintage rubber dome. Dell QuietKey has something like this.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Ah thanks.

I was just looking for something non-clicky that was inexpensive (I might still go with an AT101 or equivalent)

here's another SGI I found. Pretty much same board/price
[URL=http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160474423492&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT[/URL]


----------



## KipH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


lol @ $133 shipping for an MX Red board

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cherry-G80-3494-...item3f012d213c

Still not a horrible price overall for a Red board as the total is under 200


At that price I could fly to HK, buy 100 and send them to you all cheaper. There is no way it costs $30,000 NT to ship. $1000 Nt at most. Flight about $10,000 to $15,000. If you all chip in









Ops. My maths is wrong. Thats only $4200 NT. So 3x to 5x too much. Not so bad. Buy 2 then.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *geoxile*


Hmm, I heard Ione's M10s had quality issues though I am using a keyboard from their Xarmor branch, the iRocks is a bit too much for a secondary keyboard. The 135B looks nice. What switches do the M10 and 135B use? And are alps white ok? And what keyboards use them?


White Alps are alright. Much better than Black Alps IMO.

iOne M10 had issues at the start. Not any more. 
MX-Blue Switches

MKB-135B is MX-Blue as well.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Ah thanks.

I was just looking for something non-clicky that was inexpensive (I might still go with an AT101 or equivalent)

here's another SGI I found. Pretty much same board/price
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT


Black AT101W and SGI Granite are usually sold at ridiculous prices $75+.


----------



## geoxile

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


At that price I could fly to HK, buy 100 and send them to you all cheaper. There is no way it costs $30,000 NT to ship. $1000 Nt at most. Flight about $10,000 to $15,000. If you all chip in









Ops. My maths is wrong. Thats only $4200 NT. So 3x to 5x too much. Not so bad. Buy 2 then.


Lolol

I'm sure all of OCN's peripheral board can pitch in for your little endeavor at least.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *geoxile*


I'm sure all of OCN's peripheral board can pitch in for your little endeavor at least.


Sorry man, but I'm saving for tickets to some Korean pop concerts.


----------



## Marin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Sorry man, but I'm saving for tickets to some Korean pop concerts.


----------



## geoxile

I think my best bet is the M10 lol, iOne doesn't seem to fail me...

Are there any around 60 that use other Cherry switches?


----------



## Maytan

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Marin*  







  
   
 



  



 
 C'mon, man.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

iOne doesn't do quality control, except to make sure the keyboard works. XArmor is a subdivision of iOne and they have their own QC process and have special instructions for their U9 keyboards in terms of manufacturing and cleaning.

Adesso is an outside company, China-based (not sure if Taiwan or mainland), and apparently they didn't know to do their own QC on the first batch. Presumably they've learned better.


----------



## geoxile

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


iOne doesn't do quality control, except to make sure the keyboard works. XArmor is a subdivision of iOne and they have their own QC process and have special instructions for their U9 keyboards in terms of manufacturing and cleaning.

Adesso is an outside company, China-based (not sure if Taiwan or mainland), and apparently they didn't know to do their own QC on the first batch. Presumably they've learned better.


So you think the M10 still has bad quality and a messy PCB?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *geoxile*


So you think the M10 still has bad quality and a messy PCB?


no.


----------



## Marin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*







C'mon, man.


----------



## Maytan

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Marin*  







  








...

Maybe you'd like BoA more?..


----------



## Marin

It's interesting watching that while listening to Sleigh Bells.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


It's interesting watching that while listening to Sleigh Bells.


So I take it you dislike the music and enjoy the imagery?... That's all I could make out of that. ;0

Quote:



.---
| Nathanael,
|
| Your keyboard shipped today. The UPS tracking number is 1ZXA13670398766160. This one has been tested, so hopefully it works for you as well. Please let me know if you have any questions.
|
| Kind regards,
|
| Erin
`---


----------



## Marin

Interesting is the only way I can describe such a thing.










And hopefully this Das works for you.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


Interesting is the only way I can describe such a thing.









And hopefully this Das works for you.


Ah, I see.

Yah, thanks. Hoping it works too. I'm really surprised that they gave me a free warranty, I'd like to see anyone get such a good deal from Logitech or Razer.


----------



## Marin

Well, Logitech has excellent customer service. After two years of heavy use my G5 died so they sent me a G500 as a replacement. All they needed to see was my receipt.

Razer on the other hand...


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


Well, Logitech has excellent customer service. After two years of heavy use my G5 died so they sent me a G500 as a replacement. All they needed to see was my receipt.

Razer on the other hand...

*snip*


You have no idea how hard I laughed at that. Kudos to you.


----------



## thisispatrick

I respect that picture. Patrick is cool.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


I respect that picture. Patrick is cool.


Indeed. Spongebob is a great cartoon. One of the few I can still enjoy.


----------



## lmnop

X-Men TAS was a good cartoon.


----------



## Maytan

I never watched that... I was more into Batman. Superman always seemed like a wuss to me.

I mean, whoopee! He flies around with super strength and laser beam eyes fighting crime... Yeah well, Batman fights crime too. With nothing but technology and his FISTS. Batman>>>>>Superman.


----------



## thisispatrick

Don't forget that Superman is one of the most over powered super hero ever created. Most super heroes have one ability he has like 525600 of them. My vote goes for Batman as well.


----------



## KipH

Korean groups can get huge. I mean number of "singers" and dancers. The Wondergirls is considered a small group. Its hard keeping track of who worth listening to there, I i just load up my Cream CD









Batman wins. He knows your secret. You know, that one. The one you never told anyone.

Whats this thread about? Oh. Its made in China. I know this because everything is made in China now, even made in USA stamps.


----------



## lmnop

Phoenix Saga <3


----------



## Shrimpykins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


like this?










don't forget Deck has Blank Keycaps for sale at Performance-PCS.


Yeah, except that looks a bit grey. I am going WHITE white.

The blank keycaps don't do me much good as I need the ones it comes with so the LED's can shine through.

I am thinking of just buying an extra case for the deck since it's only $20 and having it painted along with my case as well as the second hand grip that I use more often for my G5, then swapping the cases out.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shrimpykins*


Yeah, except that looks a bit grey. I am going WHITE white.

The blank keycaps don't do me much good as I need the ones it comes with so the LED's can shine through.


The blank keycaps are double shot, with the top all clear I believe, and the sides black like normal. I don't know how you are supposed to do the lettering though.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Shrimpykins*


Yeah, except that looks a bit grey. I am going WHITE white.

The blank keycaps don't do me much good as I need the ones it comes with so the LED's can shine through.

I am thinking of just buying an extra case for the deck since it's only $20 and having it painted along with my case as well as the second hand grip that I use more often for my G5, then swapping the cases out.


I can read


----------



## KipH

There is only one Phoenix = G Force (or Gatchaman)


----------



## lmnop

I can't believe Youtube Embedding is back.


----------



## Crazy9000

NNNNNNNNNNNNNoooooooooooooooooooooooo not embedding. Now it's going to be geekhack 2.0


----------



## W4LNUT5

This thread is busy off-roading in a field somewhere.


----------



## Shrimpykins

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I can read










:X

That didn't come out right. I didn't mean WHITE white as in "Hey look idiot I said white" I meant it as the white I am going to use is going to be bright white.


----------



## lmnop

it's educational. at OCN we convert people and send them to geekhack. they need to learn how to derail a topic lol


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


it's educational. at OCN we convert people and send them to geekhack. they need to learn how to derail a topic lol


Actually on the contrary Christi








REALLY KANYE? REALLY?


----------



## Maytan

Someone should count how many times this topic's gone OT through it's nearly 700 pages of life.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Someone should count how many times this topic's gone OT through it's nearly 700 pages of life.


I nominate Maytan. You're idea, you're footwork. lol

Edit: 69 pages for the 1337 folks on OCN


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


I nominate Maytan. You're idea, you're footwork. lol

Edit: 69 pages for the 1337 folks on OCN


I'll start right now.


----------



## lmnop

USS Christine firing all her weapons at your logic.

  
 



  



 
ok i'm done


----------



## W4LNUT5




----------



## Maytan

Well that's the first 10 pages. I'm giving up.

Who wants to take over?


----------



## Maytan

That. Is. Incredible.


----------



## Marin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


it's educational. at OCN we convert people and send them to geekhack. they need to learn how to derail a topic lol


OCN OT. Threads usually get derailed by the first post.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


OCN OT. Threads usually get derailed by the first post.


That board scares me. I did a little surfing around there, and it all seemed so annoying. I got sick of the atrocious amount of perverted jokes.


----------



## lmnop

I like it. ripster makes my belly contract on a daily basis.


----------



## Marin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


That board scares me. I did a little surfing around there, and it all seemed so annoying. I got sick of the atrocious amount of perverted jokes.


You get used to the 10er's that use OT.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


You get used to the 10er's that use OT.










My sense of humor differs, I suppose. There were some interesting topics on there, though. I was pretty surprised to see such a large Anime club too.


----------



## W4LNUT5

http://www.overclock.net/other-compo...-keyboard.html

Good price ($25)


----------



## WTHbot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
http://www.overclock.net/other-compo...-keyboard.html

Good price ($25)

I was literally 10 seconds late to send my payment.


----------



## KipH

OT. There have been a few good things there lately:
FOOOOD!!
and
Not while eating food.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
OT. There have been a few good things there lately:
FOOOOD!!
and
Not while eating food.

Just sub'd the OCN Cookbook thread for later. lol


----------



## lmnop

maybe I should add my pwncakes to the thread.


----------



## KipH

Yes. I want pwncakes. But picks or it did not happen


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wr3ck3dm1nd* 
does elitekeyboards no longer carry the printed keys for the filco majestouch keyboard (aside from the WSAD keys)

Aw damn! I knew I should have ordered both the printed and blank sets!


----------



## thiru

Yay I got my mechanical keyboard today!






















Only took 3 days to process and ship from Germany









Well it's obvious right away that I like this keyboard way more than any other keyboard, and after just typing 5 minutes I already feel it's better than my Thinkpad's! It's just so much easier and smoother to type









edit: it's a Das Model S Ultimate Silent.


----------



## lmnop

congratulations


----------



## thiru

Thanks!

It was an interesting package: keyboard (obviously), free Pirate TV remote with code, free Any key with code, 4 tiny super strong magnets and some licorice









Not sure if these tiny magnets have a smart use for geeks or anything (German text) or if they're just for play (in which case you'd expect something bigger). I can use them to stick notes to my monitor though or even my laptop.

If it wasn't clear enough, this is the best keyboard ever. Thanks to typing on my laptop, I don't press all the way through and it's awesome because it works!

The only (temporary) problem is that the only non-slim desktop keyboards I've ever used were French layouts, so now my touch typing is screwed for punctuation :/


----------



## thisispatrick

When I bought my Das I didn't get any fancy gifts... :|They put a nice big receipt on the front reminding me of how much money I payed for it though.


----------



## lmnop

me either. pirate remote?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
When I bought my Das I didn't get any fancy gifts... :|They put a nice big receipt on the front reminding me of how much money I payed for it though.

That's because I ordered from getdigital.de, german geek shop








Their website is in German, English, 1337 speak, binary and hexadecimal









For some reason I have all this crap above multi-quoted... even though I just posted in this thread without quoting anyone... oh well OCN glitch, I'll take it out.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
That's because I ordered from getdigital.de, german geek shop








Their website is in German, English, 1337 speak, binary and hexadecimal









For some reason I have all this crap above multi-quoted... even though I just posted in this thread without quoting anyone...

Multi-Quotes stay selected until you either manually de-select them, or until you go to post a reply in a different thread and see (and click on) the option to click "deselect this post" or "deselect these posts".


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
me either. pirate remote?

It's a remote that's compatible with a bunch of TVs, you press a button until it figures which system it is and then you can troll the TV.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Multi-Quotes stay selected until you either manually de-select them, or until you go to post a reply in a different thread and see (and click on) the option to click "deselect this post" or "deselect these posts".

But the thing is, I never quoted those posts (they're from this thread, but not even on this page), and just before I posted normally and nothing was quoted.


----------



## Lara

http://owall.net/pics/keyboard/1.html


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lara* 
http://owall.net/pics/keyboard/1.html

cool


----------



## wr3ck3dm1nd

Anyone have a set of Filco Majestouch keys they wanna sell me? Apparently they are no longer available through elitekeyboards.com. I love my otaku, but i can't remember where any of the shift+ commands are =/ (i.e. [email protected]#$%^&*()_) and i use them surprisingly often.


----------



## lmnop




----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*












lol


----------



## thisispatrick

http://gizmodo.com/5627418/sure-id-l...itary-keyboard

Key Switch
Material: Polymer
Style: Protuberant rectangular keys
Life: >10 million actuations
Travel: 2.00mm (0.07")
Contact: Carbon-on-Gold key switch PCB


----------



## Tator Tot

My second deck shows up today. An early X-Mas gift for my brother to get him off his G15 v1.

A Frost just like mine. Might end up doing green LED's on it for him though.


----------



## lmnop

I wish you were my brother.


----------



## De-Zant

Hi guys, just bought home my 6Gv2 from mail







... 
I like it. I will be posting a review in the next couple of days, just for the heck of it.
I like the feel of the keys, although my old HP wireless felt better for typing IMO. But the HP had way too many problems.

Just wanted to give you a short status update. Thanks!

PS: The keyboard has the ' button in a different place than the normal finnish layout. The enter button is extended to fill the space, and the right shift shortened to allow the button there. I keep hitting enter every time I want to '. It will pass... Otherwise it's the normal finnish layout. I'm glad.

The media keys work fine.

Now to start using it 24/7


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


Hi guys, just bought home my 6Gv2 from mail







... 
I like it. I will be posting a review in the next couple of days, just for the heck of it.
I like the feel of the keys, although my old HP wireless felt better for typing IMO. But the HP had way too many problems.

Just wanted to give you a short status update. Thanks!

PS: The keyboard has the ' button in a different place than the normal finnish layout. The enter button is extended to fill the space, and the right shift shortened to allow the button there. I keep hitting enter every time I want to '. It will pass... Otherwise it's the normal finnish layout. I'm glad.

The media keys work fine.

Now to start using it 24/7










That's the normal European layout and I hate it too (even the UK layout is the same). I hate it so I got a US layout instead.

Edit: I just googled and the Finnish layout is the same as the European layout, so I'm wondering why you're not used to it...


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


That's the normal European layout and I hate it too (even the UK layout is the same). I hate it so I got a US layout instead.

Edit: I just googled and the Finnish layout is the same as the European layout, so I'm wondering why you're not used to it...


This one has a huge enter button. The normal finnish layout doesn't. The US has a wide enter, finland has a tall enter. This Multi country layout has move d the ' button one row down so now I keep hitting enter instead (enter has expanded to the place of the original ' button.) Luckily it only matters when I write in english. ' Is very very rare in finnish.


----------



## nonamed

Give me advice... I am goin to buy Filco Majsestouch keyboard however I still wonder which switches choose... Unfortunately I can not compare them.

I am using computer everyday ~10hours , I browse the web, work in graphic design environment , play some FPS games from time to time (last time more often as I am on holidays). I was thinking about Cherry MX BROWN switches, looks like it will be the best choice between black & blue... What do you think ?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nonamed*


Give me advice... I am goin to buy Filco Majsestouch keyboard however I still wonder which switches choose... Unfortunately I can not compare them.

I am using computer everyday ~10hours , I browse the web, work in graphic design environment , play some FPS games from time to time (last time more often as I am on holidays). I was thinking about Cherry MX BROWN switches, looks like it will be the best choice between black & blue... What do you think ?


When you game, do you require your keyboard to allow you to do precise and controlled double-tapping? Or, are you more of a casual gamer? I mean, if you're more of a casual gamer, then the Cherry MX Blues are a good consideration in addition to the Browns because they're absolutely perfect for typing. Plus, the quiet little clicks that the Blues make is quite satisfying.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


This one has a huge enter button. The normal finnish layout doesn't. The US has a wide enter, finland has a tall enter. This Multi country layout has move d the ' button one row down so now I keep hitting enter instead (enter has expanded to the place of the original ' button.) Luckily it only matters when I write in english. ' Is very very rare in finnish.


Oh.. you must mean this then, it does look like a mix of US and European layouts.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I wish you were my brother.










I'm a generous guy.

I'm actually going to get 2 more as soon as I can (Before Xmas) for my 2 best friends as they need some real keyboards. 
Though I considered getting the one a Deck 82 because he likes SFF keyboards.

But he types more so I'm thinking I might go for a Filco Tenkeyless and get some custom keycaps for it so they don't fade/get shiny.

I keep my friends in good stuff because they deserve it


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nonamed*


Give me advice... I am goin to buy Filco Majsestouch keyboard however I still wonder which switches choose... Unfortunately I can not compare them.

I am using computer everyday ~10hours , I browse the web, work in graphic design environment , play some FPS games from time to time (last time more often as I am on holidays). I was thinking about Cherry MX BROWN switches, looks like it will be the best choice between black & blue... What do you think ?


I just got my Das with brown switches and it's awesome for writing. I haven't played with it but double tapping seems to be fine, which is what most gamers are worried about. Dunno about blues though if may be worth it to get blues and keep your old keyboard for playing.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


When you game, do you require your keyboard to allow you to do precise and controlled double-tapping? Or, are you more of a casual gamer? I mean, if you're more of a casual gamer, then the Cherry MX Blues are a good consideration in addition to the Browns because they're absolutely perfect for typing. Plus, the quiet little clicks that the Blues make is quite satisfying.


The sound that these brown switches isn't exactly quiet (but it doesn't bother me either), so I can't imagine the blues as quiet...


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*









I'm a generous guy.

I'm actually going to get 2 more as soon as I can (Before Xmas) for my 2 best friends as they need some real keyboards. 
Though I considered getting the one a Deck 82 because he likes SFF keyboards.

But he types more so I'm thinking I might go for a Filco Tenkeyless and get some custom keycaps for it so they don't fade/get shiny.

I keep my friends in good stuff because they deserve it










if your going to order form elitekeyboards do it before December. last December pretty much everything but the Linear models were out of stock and elitekeyboards didn't re-stock until Jan I think.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


if your going to order form elitekeyboards do it before December. last December pretty much everything but the Linear models were out of stock and elitekeyboards didn't re-stock until Jan I think.


Well I've got a Tactile Click Otaku, so if I can't order it in December than I'll give him mine. 
I figured that would be the case though.

Do you know if Deck rolls out of stock on the Frost Tactile easily?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I just got my Das with brown switches and it's awesome for writing. I haven't played with it but double tapping seems to be fine, which is what most gamers are worried about. Dunno about blues though if may be worth it to get blues and keep your old keyboard for playing.

The sound that these brown is switches isn't exactly quiet (but it doesn't bother me either), so I can't imagine the blues as quiet...


I described the click as "quiet" because I'm trying to prevent the fear of it being too loud. It seems like every time the Cherry MX Blues are mentioned to the uninitiated, they always show worry that the clicks might be too loud. But in reality, they're no louder than the sound of bottoming out. I mean, it's just a subtle little click that isn't too quiet or too loud.

So if your Model S Silent is noisy, then it isn't the switches: it's the keyboard. It's the sound of the keys coming back up and it's the sound of bottoming out. The switches themselves don't make a sound.


----------



## lmnop

well Deck is a subsidiary of TG3 Electronics which manufactures it so I imagine they have a unlimited stock. all you have to worry about is the holiday postal service.

apparently the Otaku models have been discontinued by Diatec. someone contacted Diatec this morning. now people are saying elitekeyboards isn't going to carry Keycaps anymore?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


well Deck is a subsidiary of TG3 Electronics which manufactures it so I imagine they have a unlimited stock. all you have to worry about is the holiday postal service.

apparently the Otaku models have been discontinued by Diatec. someone contacted Diatec this morning. now people are saying elitekeyboards isn't going to carry Keycaps anymore?


Just go to their site: there are no more keycaps for the Majestouch boards.

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...access,keycaps


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


well Deck is a subsidiary of TG3 Electronics which manufactures it so I imagine they have a unlimited stock. all you have to worry about is the holiday postal service.

apparently the Otaku models have been discontinued by Diatec. someone contacted Diatec this morning. now people are saying elitekeyboards isn't going to carry Keycaps anymore?


I figured but I didn't know for sure.

I'm probably going to get a set of Blanks for the Deck. Not sure yet as I haven't figured out what I would really do with them.

I replaced my Otaku's blanks with the better blanks set from Filco themselves and sold the Otaku blanks on Ebay. So I'm not worried about Keycaps for it. Besides possibly better lettered ones as I don't want the fade effect as it kinda looks bad after awhile.


----------



## lmnop

I seen it a couple of days ago I didn't think anything of it because I thought elitekeyboards was waiting to be re-stocked.


----------



## geoxile

Chicony KB-5181 worth it? Apparently uses SMK switches? Feels like Cherry blues/buckling spring


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Oh.. you must mean this then, it does look like a mix of US and European layouts.











Nope, that is not it. Mine has a *nordic* layout.


----------



## ch_123

If you can get one cheap, yes. The keyboards themselves are not well built, and neither are the switches, so at higher price points, you're better off with either a Blue Cherry or Buckling Spring keyboard.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *geoxile*


Chicony KB-5181 worth it? Apparently uses SMK switches? Feels like Cherry blues/buckling spring


----------



## geoxile

10 bucks apparently


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *geoxile*


Chicony KB-5181 worth it? Apparently uses SMK switches? Feels like Cherry blues/buckling spring


http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6128

A small "review" on it.

The only thing that I can say might be annoying is some of the WSAD clusters it apparently fails at. Though I don't think you'll notice to much as I don't often use those combos in games (if ever as I can't really think I use those combos.)


----------



## geoxile

I've never had a problem with the 3/4 key limit so NKRO never seemed like a very big feature. I've seen their review already









Still, not sure how it will hold up.


----------



## TwoCables

But for $10, why not?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I described the click as "quiet" because I'm trying to prevent the fear of it being too loud. It seems like every time the Cherry MX Blues are mentioned to the uninitiated, they always show worry that the clicks might be too loud. But in reality, they're no louder than the sound of bottoming out. I mean, it's just a subtle little click that isn't too quiet or too loud.

So if your Model S Silent is noisy, then it isn't the switches: it's the keyboard. It's the sound of the keys coming back up and it's the sound of bottoming out. The switches themselves don't make a sound.


Ahh, I see your point









Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


Nope, that is not it. Mine has a *nordic* layout.


Oh well. Anyway, I feel your pain, I've grown up with the US layout and every time I type on a French keyboard I feel like breaking it (both for being a crappy dome and for the layout).


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But for $10, why not?










Yeah, what else are you gonna' do with $10?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Yeah, what else are you gonna' do with $10?


Actually, that could get me a pizza.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Actually, that could get me a pizza.










That's true...

The keyboard would last longer, though.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


That's true...

The keyboard would last longer, though.










Oh wait, that's right: I can't eat a keyboard.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Oh wait, that's right: I can't eat a keyboard.










An edible keyboard... That'd be interesting. They could make it out of that glass-like sugar that they use in food sculptures.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Oh wait, that's right: I can't eat a keyboard.










Yes you can. It just wouldn't be pleasing or nutritional.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


An edible keyboard... That'd be interesting. They could make it out of that glass-like sugar that they use in food sculptures.












my favourite layout.


----------



## thiru

This guy can (he's French, which might explain some things) and he'll like it


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


An edible keyboard... That'd be interesting. They could make it out of that glass-like sugar that they use in food sculptures.


Can't imagine anyone doing this for anything else but for the sake of doing it. Could the keyboard be edible and ACTUALLY WORK?


----------



## geoxile

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


This guy can (he's French, which might explain some things) and he'll like it










He dead son


----------



## TwoCables

Mmmmm.... s'mores!! I'll take dark chocolate please.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


An edible keyboard... That'd be interesting. They could make it out of that glass-like sugar that they use in food sculptures.


hahaha that'd be epic.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Yes you can. It just wouldn't be pleasing or nutritional.


lol


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*











my favourite layout.











...is that keyboard functional? I would **** bricks.

That Paula Deen picture is hilarious though; my bro's a big fan of hers.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


This guy can (he's French, which might explain some things) and he'll like it










:|... I want to visit France now, and see if there's people on the streets eating weird things for spare change.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


Can't imagine anyone doing this for anything else but for the sake of doing it. Could the keyboard be edible and ACTUALLY WORK?


Well, I meant the casing/keycaps. Not the insides.


----------



## frickfrock999

What happened to this thread....


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *geoxile*


He dead son












edit:
I've seen this thread go way more off topic than this...


----------



## lmnop

some people claim it was done in Adobe, but I don't think it would be too hard to create that. non-functional of course.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *frickfrock99*


What happened to this thread....


All I said was that for $10, he may as well get that Chicony keyboard. Then later on I was like, _"Wait a sec, $10 could buy a pizza"_. But then later I somehow ended up saying, _"Oh wait that's right: I can't eat a keyboard"._


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


some people claim it was done in Adobe, but I don't think it would be too hard to create that. non-functional of course.


I doubt that's shoop'd. Even if it's not functional, it's still pretty amazing. I'd be arguing with my self about whether or not to eat it. The phrase, "You can't have your cake and eat it too." is just TOO TRUE.


----------



## lmnop

cakeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


cakeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee



















I spy Syracuse NY on the front of that


----------



## nonamed

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I described the click as "quiet" because I'm trying to prevent the fear of it being too loud. It seems like every time the Cherry MX Blues are mentioned to the uninitiated, they always show worry that the clicks might be too loud. But in reality, they're no louder than the sound of bottoming out. I mean, it's just a subtle little click that isn't too quiet or too loud.

So if your Model S Silent is noisy, then it isn't the switches: it's the keyboard. It's the sound of the keys coming back up and it's the sound of bottoming out. The switches themselves don't make a sound.


I was also thinking about DASkeyboard , Professional Silent which comes with Cherry MX Brown in opposite to regular Professional with Blue switches...

All in all , Blue switches are ''louder'' than Brown , for example during typing... am I right... ?

@
Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I just got my Das with brown switches and it's awesome for writing. I haven't played with it but double tapping seems to be fine, which is what most gamers are worried about. Dunno about blues though if may be worth it to get blues and keep your old keyboard for playing.

The sound that these brown switches isn't exactly quiet (but it doesn't bother me either), so I can't imagine the blues as quiet...


Where did u buy it ? I did found getDigital.de but unfortunately they do not have DASkeyboard with brown switches in stock... only Ultimate [blank keys] and Pro with Blue switches....


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nonamed*


I was also thinking about DASkeyboard , Professional Silent which comes with Cherry MX Brown in opposite to regular Professional with Blue switches...

All in all , Blue switches are ''louder'' than Brown , for example during typing... am I right... ?

@

Where did u buy it ? I did found getDigital.de but unfortunately they do not have DASkeyboard with brown switches in stock... only Ultimate [blank keys] and Pro with Blue switches....


Well as Two Cables said the blues might not be all that louder if you compare them on the same keyboard model (haven't found a video however).

Anyway, I bought the Das Model S Ultimate Silent from getdigital.de. I don't mind the blank key caps.


----------



## nonamed

Still wonder between DasKeyboard and Filco keyboard... Das is a bit cheaper... but price does not make any difference for my... What do you think guys ? Which is more solid , has better quality etc... :/


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *geoxile*


Chicony KB-5181 worth it? Apparently uses SMK switches? Feels like Cherry blues/buckling spring


Personally I really like the feel of SMK Montereys. The keyboard itself is pretty flimsy, but the switches are real nice. For $10 you really can't go wrong.


----------



## Crazy9000

The Das has better build quality, but it's not that big of a deal. It mostly comes down to whither you like the finish on the Das, or not.


----------



## nonamed

Any difference between Filco and DasKeyboard concerning key printing methods ? 
The same method used ?

Will they wear out easily ??


----------



## Crazy9000

Das keys are laser etched, while Filco uses pad printing. Laser is better.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Das keys are laser etched, while Filco uses pad printing. Laser is better.


Oh that's good to know


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Oh that's good to know










The information is on the first page of the guide. If you search for Das it'll go right to it, and scroll up a little bit and you'll see the Filco. You can then compare the specs.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nonamed*


I was also thinking about DASkeyboard , Professional Silent which comes with Cherry MX Brown in opposite to regular Professional with Blue switches...

All in all , Blue switches are ''louder'' than Brown , for example during typing... am I right... ?


The Cherry MX Blues have a design characteristic that makes the switch click upon actuation whereas the Browns are essentially silent due to having no audible click. So by putting the word _louder_ in quotes, I guess that makes it an accurate description since the Blues aren't louder than Browns in the way that Buckling Springs are louder than the Cherry MX Blues and Browns.

This click is very similar to the click that a retractable pen makes, only the click that the Cherry MX Blue switch makes is quieter.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nonamed*


Still wonder between DasKeyboard and Filco keyboard... Das is a bit cheaper... but price does not make any difference for my... What do you think guys ? Which is more solid , has better quality etc... :/


The Das is usually described as a higher quality keyboard. But when comparing keyboards of this caliber, it really comes down to looks, features, and price. I mean, it would be different if you were comparing either of these keyboards to the iOne Scorpius M10 because that is certainly a lower quality keyboard.

But concerning key wear: that can depend on tons of factors: how much you use the keyboard with sweaty fingers (or just slightly damp from sweat), oily/greasy fingers, etc. I've had my Majestouch for close to 6 months now (I'll see the 6th month anniversary in 8 days), and I don't see any wear on the letters. However, I do see a tiny bit of shine on some of the keys, like the Spacebar, Backspace and Enter as well as the alpha keys. But it's nothing like I've seen in comparison to other people's keyboards that have been used this long and this much. Most pictures I've seen of Majestouch boards this young (roughly 6 months) look really shiny.

But the way I care for my keyboard is probably very unique. When I wake up, the first thing I do after going to the bathroom is I wash my hands twice. I do the lather, rinse, repeat cycle for the purpose of making sure all of that grease and oil is completely gone. This not only prevents me from getting that junk on my keycaps, but it also helps my hands stay dry (helps me avoid sweaty palms and fingers). So in turn, this helps minimize the keywear. I also never type after eating something like a hamburger, or worse yet: potato chips. Not only is there grease from the potato chips, but there's a little bit from the hamburger buns. So yeah, I wash my hands fairly frequently due to my love for my keyboard.

Ultimately though, I hover my wrists and type very gently (I never bottom out). So this is another factor in keywear: how hard you press each key - especially concerning how hard you bottom out. The harder a key is bottomed out, the more keywear there will be.

So in other words: the amount of keywear you see as well as when you first start seeing it depends on you.


----------



## Marin

Microfiber clothes work nicely for cleaning off keys.

I also dust off my keyboards with a Giottos Rocket Air Blower.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


Microfiber clothes work nicely for cleaning off keys.


Yep, but the keywear already happened by that point. Think about that happening every day for 6 months.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


Microfiber clothes work nicely for cleaning off keys.

I also dust off my keyboards with a Giottos Rocket Air Blower.


Yeah, that's what I do with my keyboard/mousepad/mouse. (microfiber cloth)

How powerful is that Blower? I'd consider investing in it if I could, say, use it to dust out my computer.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Ending soon. Shippings free

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## fssbzz

hey, what switch Thermaltake Challenger Pro use?
it says is clicky. but the key cap looks so flat looks like scissor switch


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Ending soon

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT


That's WAY too expensive for an AT101/AT101W


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
That's WAY too expensive for an AT101/AT101W

I thought $36 shipped was a decent price. I haven't found them cheaper on ebay lately.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
I thought $36 shipped was a decent price. I haven't found them cheaper on ebay lately.

I bought mine for $6


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
I bought mine for $6

I've been keeping my eye out for something that cheap. $6 would make me very happy.

I'm assuming that was a thrift store find?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
I've been keeping my eye out for something that cheap. $6 would make me very happy.

I'm assuming that was a thrift store find?

nope, ebay


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Das keys are laser etched, while Filco uses pad printing. Laser is better.

Not always. Uncoated lasers are susceptible to chemical reactions - and some people must have the blood chemistry of an Alien with the hots for Ripley.

Steelseries 7G on bottom. Lasered keys.









Steelseries 6GV2 after an acetone test. Lasered keys.









A pad printed but coated $10 Logitech keyboard key after acetone test.


----------



## Crazy9000

I would assume that's pretty rare lol. Also what the heck happened to the second key? The pad printing survived, the rest of the key didn't.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Yeah, that's what I do with my keyboard/mousepad/mouse. (microfiber cloth)

How powerful is that Blower? I'd consider investing in it if I could, say, use it to dust out my computer.

A blower is fine, but what about using a good vacuum cleaner with a nice horse hair attachment that's similar to this one?










So yeah, a blower might be fine, but a vacuum will pull everything off and suck it away. Plus, you can unplug the keyboard and press this against the keyboard over and over and over until you cover the entire surface of the keyboard. By pressing such a brush like this one against the keyboard, the suction is maximized.

I use this exact brush attachment on my keyboard every single day, and it's 100% clean - and my keyboard is 6 months old too.


----------



## Crazy9000

I don't clean my keyboards.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I don't clean my keyboards.

Oh, well should you ever sell one of your keyboards and if I become interested, then be sure to remind me that you don't clean your keyboards.

In other words: remind me to never buy a keyboard from you.









You nasty bastid.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I don't clean my keyboards.









.... eww....


----------



## Crazy9000

lol, I'd clean it before I sold it. I don't really see the point, just some stuff gets under the keys that you can't see unless you take them off, which I normally don't.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
lol, I'd clean it before I sold it. I don't really see the point, just some stuff gets under the keys that you can't see unless you take them off, which I normally don't.

hehe









My motivation for putting forth my best effort to keep my keyboard clean is just how much I love it. I mean, I think I like my keyboard more than anything else in my entire system. So, it gets the most love.


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I mean, I think I like my keyboard more than anything else in my entire system. So, it gets the most love.

I was wondering why there were all those tissues next to it.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
So yeah, a blower might be fine, but a vacuum will pull everything off and suck it away.

Including the keycaps..









Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 









I find this rather interesting. At the same time, it also just makes me want to get printless keycaps.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frickfrock99* 
I was wondering why there were all those tissues next to it.

Those are for my tears of joy. But they're also handy for my tears of sadness when I have to stop using my keyboard for the day and go to sleep.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
The information is on the first page of the guide. If you search for Das it'll go right to it, and scroll up a little bit and you'll see the Filco. You can then compare the specs.

I just remembered that the keyboard under my hands has blank keys


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
hey, what switch Thermaltake Challenger Pro use?
it says is clicky. but the key cap looks so flat looks like scissor switch

??


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
??

I think that the Challenger and Challenger Pro are both rubber dome boards. I don't see anything on their site that indicates that either of them are mechanical boards.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Is this the "Type 1" SGI board with rubber dampened alps whites? But these have a proprietary cable don't they? Sadface if I can't actually use it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Silicon-Graphics...item35abef7e91


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Is this the "Type 1" SGI board with rubber dampened alps whites? But these have a proprietary cable don't they? Sadface if I can't actually use it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Silicon-Graphics...item35abef7e91

I think that's only the part numbers 9500900 & 9500829

But you might want to be wary of this:

Quote:

There is an earlier model (9500801) that looks identical to the 9500900, and it even has the same connector as PS/2, but it uses a different protocol with different voltages. If you plug it into a PS/2 device, only one of the two will survive.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I think that's only the part numbers 9500900 & 9500829

But you might want to be wary of this:

Here's some info on them I've found
http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=147718&postcount=57

Yeah, these are the proprietary connector models. I could build a converter as I found the diagrams, or it would make a good board to harvest alps switches from. That's about it.

I'm going to pass on it because I don't have the time for such a project board. (Nor is it really worth it imo)


----------



## geoxile

http://www.resellelectronics.com/pro...252d-Blue.html

Do I buy or not! D:

The alternative key pattern sets me off. HUGE Enter with a tiny space next to the slash. Same as the 7G


----------



## Phaedrus2129

That price is great for a NIB, I picked one up in worse condition for $25. It's got SMK Monterey switches. They're excellent when brand new. Go for it. Do it naoughw.


----------



## geoxile

Hmmmm, how do ALPS black compare? That may be the selling point for me >.>


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *geoxile* 
Hmmmm, how do ALPS black compare? That may be the selling point for me >.>

They don't when the board with white-alps is that price. lol


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Here's some info on them I've found
http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=147718&postcount=57

Yeah, these are the proprietary connector models. I could build a converter as I found the diagrams, or it would make a good board to harvest alps switches from. That's about it.

I'm going to pass on it because I don't have the time for such a project board. (Nor is it really worth it imo)

Leave those sort of things to vintage computer types who really need that sort of stuff. The PS/2 SGI keyboards are more common anyway.

Quote:

Hmmmm, how do ALPS black compare? That may be the selling point for me >.>
They don't... they're miles better than black Alps.


----------



## coffeejunky

*pops into thread*
I was wondering if anyone could recommend me a keyboard.

I have used scissor-type laptop-style keyboards for years, they work fine when brand new but I seem to be getting through them at a rate of one every 6 months or so, they just stop registering keypresses and I have to start bottoming out each key...which is annoying.

Anyway I have a heavy year of studies ahead of me, including a dissertation and some papers, so I'm going to be typing alot of words soon. So I've convinced myself to spend some extra and get something that will last and will make me somewhat more productive (going back and correcting missed letters is a pain).

Anyway, the world of keyboard switches has me lost (although this guide has helped). My requirements would be as follows -

- Light actuation force (the lighter the better really). Don't want anything really stiff, gaming will be happening on the keyboard but primarily typing. A tactile bump might be a bit distracting, so I'm not bothered if it has very little.
- Something that registers even on light key-presses (I don't tend to like keyboards that need alot of travel to register). 
- Noise is not so much of an issue.
- I have limited desk space, so something of the AT101 or Model M ilk would be out of the question. Also, I would prefer black or gray (not a fan of beige). tenkeyless would be nice, but not a must. 
- I am in the UK, so getting anything here is pretty tricky (unless anyone knows of anyone who could export one?)
-Budget - anything up to Â£75 (around $100 or so). But the cheaper the better.

So what switch type would be best (I'm guessing browns or reds here - shame reds are so rare, I guess blues would be acceptable...just).

Recommend away









Any idea if the Filco ZERO is any good for typing? What characteristics do those switches have? EDIT: Looks like XM whites require alot of force....


----------



## lattyware

Quote:



Originally Posted by *coffeejunky*


*pops into thread*
I was wondering if anyone could recommend me a keyboard.

I have used scissor-type laptop-style keyboards for years, they work fine when brand new but I seem to be getting through them at a rate of one every 6 months or so, they just stop registering keypresses and I have to start bottoming out each key...which is annoying.

Anyway I have a heavy year of studies ahead of me, including a dissertation and some papers, so I'm going to be typing alot of words soon. So I've convinced myself to spend some extra and get something that will last and will make me somewhat more productive (going back and correcting missed letters is a pain).

Anyway, the world of keyboard switches has me lost (although this guide has helped). My requirements would be as follows -

- Light actuation force (the lighter the better really). Don't want anything really stiff, gaming will be happening on the keyboard but primarily typing. A tactile bump might be a bit distracting, so I'm not bothered if it has very little.
- Something that registers even on light key-presses (I don't tend to like keyboards that need alot of travel to register). 
- Noise is not so much of an issue.
- I have limited desk space, so something of the AT101 or Model M ilk would be out of the question. Also, I would prefer black or gray (not a fan of beige). tenkeyless would be nice, but not a must. 
- I am in the UK, so getting anything here is pretty tricky (unless anyone knows of anyone who could export one?)
-Budget - anything up to Â£75 (around $100 or so). But the cheaper the better.

So what switch type would be best (I'm guessing browns or reds here - shame reds are so rare, I guess blues would be acceptable...just).

Recommend away









Any idea if the Filco ZERO is any good for typing? What characteristics do those switches have? EDIT: Looks like XM whites require alot of force....


I bought from the keyboard company - the service was great, and I highly reccomend them.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Well, I managed to try some MX Blues today, and I have to say I prefer the Browns for typing. I noticed the Browns were a tad bit lighter for me and it made a difference in my typing.


----------



## mechtech

Quote:



Originally Posted by *coffeejunky*


*pops into thread*
I was wondering if anyone could recommend me a keyboard.

I have used scissor-type laptop-style keyboards for years, they work fine when brand new but I seem to be getting through them at a rate of one every 6 months or so, they just stop registering keypresses and I have to start bottoming out each key...which is annoying.

Anyway I have a heavy year of studies ahead of me, including a dissertation and some papers, so I'm going to be typing alot of words soon. So I've convinced myself to spend some extra and get something that will last and will make me somewhat more productive (going back and correcting missed letters is a pain).

Anyway, the world of keyboard switches has me lost (although this guide has helped). My requirements would be as follows -

- Light actuation force (the lighter the better really). Don't want anything really stiff, gaming will be happening on the keyboard but primarily typing. A tactile bump might be a bit distracting, so I'm not bothered if it has very little.
- Something that registers even on light key-presses (I don't tend to like keyboards that need alot of travel to register). 
- Noise is not so much of an issue.
- I have limited desk space, so something of the AT101 or Model M ilk would be out of the question. Also, I would prefer black or gray (not a fan of beige). tenkeyless would be nice, but not a must. 
- I am in the UK, so getting anything here is pretty tricky (unless anyone knows of anyone who could export one?)
-Budget - anything up to Â£75 (around $100 or so). But the cheaper the better.

So what switch type would be best (I'm guessing browns or reds here - shame reds are so rare, I guess blues would be acceptable...just).

Recommend away









Any idea if the Filco ZERO is any good for typing? What characteristics do those switches have? EDIT: Looks like XM whites require alot of force....


I'd go with a Filco Tenkeyless blue/brown. I know that's kind of standard advice, but it seems to be the best fit.

Keep in mind the blues are still a very light actuation force, especially compared to rubber dome keyboards. Still, if you're looking for feather light actuation force and a (very) light tactile bump, the browns would be better.


----------



## lmnop

thought you guys might be interested in a Avant Stellar GT60MNIKEY Mechanical Keyboard listed on eBay.

you can order a brand new one from CVT for $199.

if you haven't noticed by the model number it's a Northgate Omnikey Ultra clone.

even though the Keycaps are pad printed it does come in solid black, has a windows key and NKRO through it's native PS/2 cable.

I believe they are Simplified Alps in White (***kas)


----------



## Genkaz92

The deck has arrived yesterday to my location, and so far the experience with it has been extremely positive.

The keyboard is extremely compact yet has very proper and comfortable key spacing, the keys feel very solid and produce a pleasant mechanical sound when typing. The keyboard only turned out to be slightly louder then my previous rubber dome keyboard, generally it is loud enough to hear the pleasant clicking but quiet enough for it not to be irritating.

In general the keyboard feels extremely solid and durable yet clearly intended for easy modding. The layout in general is very pleasant, I am already highly enjoying the tilda key at the lower left, the DEL key at the lower right, and the windows key in the upper right corner due to it no longer having a capacity of getting in the way.

With the combined opinion about the layout and the spacing of the keys, I would say that the ergonomics are virtually perfect while managing to place themselves in a very comfortable compact package. It is actually interesting that my Sidewinder X6 felt generally more cramped to type on while being a much larger keyboard then this one.

The LED lights are also very pleasant, I enjoy using an option that is a few notches dimmer then the brightest one, apparently this wonderful little peripheral uses industrial grade LED's which appear to have a capacity for lasting virtually as long as the mechanical keys in it.

The typing and gaming experience in general feels significantly more solid and responsive then a rubber dome, the keys are certainly harder to push and require a more defined amount of force, but in my opinion this ultimately only improves your accuracy in the end while also making your operations more concrete.

While significantly better switches for typing appear to exist such as the tactile and clicky MX blues, even these switches are significantly better then a rubber dome.

I have absolutely no complaints about this keyboard whatsoever, it genuinely appears to be an elite peripheral with a strong defined character, except possibly the fact that you have to adjust the brightness of it every computer session instead of doing it once and then forgetting about it, but that is so microscopic of an issue that I barely consider it to be one.

Some pictures:


----------



## thiru

lol your mouse pad is twice as big as your keyboard

edit: three four times


----------



## lmnop

oh right I forgot the Deck 82 doesn't have a buffer to remember the last brightness level like the Deck Legend.

any problems without a wrist rest?

glad your happy with it.


----------



## De-Zant

Lol @the mouse pad. My mouse pad is almost exactly the same size.

Big mouse pads rock.


----------



## lmnop

how come you didn't use the skull & crossbone keycap?









you should turn all your lights off and take a couple pictures of the Deck 82 at the lowest and highest levels of illumination.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


oh right I forgot the Deck 82 doesn't have a buffer to remember the last brightness level like the Deck Legend.

any problems without a wrist rest?

glad your happy with it.


I am actually absolutely satisfied without a wrist set so far, my wrists somehow feel perfectly comfortable without one.


----------



## lmnop

nice.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


how come you didn't use the skull & crossbone keycap?









you should turn all your lights off and take a couple pictures of the Deck 82 at the lowest and highest levels of illumination.


Highest brightness with room lights off:









Lowest brightness (off) with room lights on and flash on:


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I've got my "Ricercar" MX SPOS.


----------



## lmnop

thanks









I like how the PCB illuminates.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


thanks









I like how the PCB illuminates.


I perfectly agree, the overall illumination of it in general is very global and balanced.


----------



## lmnop

if you guys are interested there are 2 Deck 82 Toxic and 1 Deck 82 Ice available for $99 on eBay.


----------



## thiru

Speaking of wrist rests, I need one. This keyboard is way higher than my scissor switch one. What kind of rests are good? most of those I found (and I can barely find any, only amazon sells them) are gel, but I'm sure there are other types.

edit: can't link to amazon searches.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Speaking of wrist rests, I need one. This keyboard is way higher than my scissor switch one. What kind of rests are good? most of those I found (and I can barely find any, only amazon sells them) are gel, but I'm sure there are other types.

edit: can't link to amazon searches.


There are Gel, Foam, & "pillow" wrist-rests.

I like the gels the most, they give a good amount of support and are nice and firm. While still contouring to my writs & palms.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


There are Gel, Foam, & "pillow" wrist-rests.

I like the gels the most, they give a good amount of support and are nice and firm. While still contouring to my writs & palms.


Thanks. I have no idea how to pick one  guess I'll go buy my stuff in a shop for once


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Thanks. I have no idea how to pick one  guess I'll go buy my stuff in a shop for once










Go to any office supply store like Office Max, they have keyboards & wrist rests on display. So you can try what type of wrist rest you like.

The foams I've always felt suck you in to much.

Also there are some that are gel with a leather top which is really annoying to me, I don't like them. 
My gel wrist rest has a cloth/nylon top to it (and a rubber base so it doesn't slide) and that is what I personally prefer.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Go to any office supply store like Office Max, they have keyboards & wrist rests on display. So you can try what type of wrist rest you like.

The foams I've always felt suck you in to much.

Also there are some that are gel with a leather top which is really annoying to me, I don't like them. 
My gel wrist rest has a cloth/nylon top to it (and a rubber base so it doesn't slide) and that is what I personally prefer.


Yeah I was thinking of looking in those shops.


----------



## Nuc

So having bought a Das with cherry browns I have to say I'm in love with it. On the other hand though, I hate the keyboard I use at work. Anyone know where I can get a cheap mechanical I can use and abuse at the office? I'd prefer cherry browns but blues would probably work also.


----------



## Jalal

I have recieved the cherry g80-3000 with white switches and the g81-3000 with cherry MY ones. Comparing this g80 with rubber dome keyboard, i can say that it feels for sure better. Actions like striking, using skills get a new feeling, its more fun, not much but it is worth it. Likewise simple typing ofcourse feels also better. Rubber domes really are swamps.

So now as i am writing this i use the g81-3000 and i don't know what to think of it. First off this keyboard is much heavier than the g80. I guess it is plated. It feels definetly better than a rubber dome. The keys are extremly silent because you barely bottom out. I like it when i have closed earphones and can't hear any clicks anymore, so that is absolutely no problem for me. But i think i like bottoming out, but that would be tiring with this keyboard as it requieres much force to do so. I havn't played any games with it so far, so gonna do it next.

I have tried cherry blacks before and judging from the feeling, i could go with them over whites or browns. I havn't tried latter but the feel is very similar to white i think and they are very loud from what i hear in the youtube videos (which browns are not on a plated keyboard?). Well, first i try these two more and eventually send them back.

I try to report later how the g81 did in games.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *coffeejunky*


*pops into thread*
I was wondering if anyone could recommend me a keyboard.

I have used scissor-type laptop-style keyboards for years, they work fine when brand new but I seem to be getting through them at a rate of one every 6 months or so, they just stop registering keypresses and I have to start bottoming out each key...which is annoying.

Anyway I have a heavy year of studies ahead of me, including a dissertation and some papers, so I'm going to be typing alot of words soon. So I've convinced myself to spend some extra and get something that will last and will make me somewhat more productive (going back and correcting missed letters is a pain).

Anyway, the world of keyboard switches has me lost (although this guide has helped). My requirements would be as follows -

- Light actuation force (the lighter the better really). Don't want anything really stiff, gaming will be happening on the keyboard but primarily typing. A tactile bump might be a bit distracting, so I'm not bothered if it has very little.


Do you mean that it might be distracting for gaming? Because for typing, having both a tactile bump and an audible click can be quite a satisfying experience.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *coffeejunky*


- Something that registers even on light key-presses (I don't tend to like keyboards that need alot of travel to register). 
- Noise is not so much of an issue.
- I have limited desk space, so something of the AT101 or Model M ilk would be out of the question. Also, I would prefer black or gray (not a fan of beige). tenkeyless would be nice, but not a must. 
- I am in the UK, so getting anything here is pretty tricky (unless anyone knows of anyone who could export one?)
-Budget - anything up to Â£75 (around $100 or so). But the cheaper the better.

So what switch type would be best (I'm guessing browns or reds here - shame reds are so rare, I guess blues would be acceptable...just).

Recommend away









Any idea if the Filco ZERO is any good for typing? What characteristics do those switches have? EDIT: Looks like XM whites require alot of force....


Both the Cherry MX Browns and Blues definitely fit the category of requiring a light touch for actuation, but the Browns are noticeably a little lighter. Fortunately, both switch types actuate about halfway down (about 2mm down) which is really, _really_ nice for typing.

Check this out: when hovering your wrists while typing, the superiority of mechanical switches like the MX Browns or Blues really shines. This is because hovering your wrists almost forces you to use a lighter touch on the keys which also makes it much easier to not bottom out each keystroke. This was something that I actually discovered on accident a couple of days after getting my Majestouch Tactile Click (my first and only mechanical): I was enjoying the typing experience so much that I would just open Notepad and jam. At some point, I raised my wrists up for some reason; I think it was a natural reaction to the feel of the Blues. One of my favorite things about typing like this is that it feels like my hands are just _floating_ over my keyboard.

But as for specific keyboard recommendations, your best bets might be either the Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch, or the Tactile Click. The Tactile Touch has the Browns, and the Tactile Click has the Blues.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


I have recieved the cherry g80-3000 with white switches and the g81-3000 with cherry MY ones. Comparing this g80 with rubber dome keyboard, i can say that it feels for sure better. Actions like striking, using skills get a new feeling, its more fun, not much but it is worth it. Likewise simple typing ofcourse feels also better. Rubber domes really are swamps.

So now as i am writing this i use the g81-3000 and i don't know what to think of it. First off this keyboard is much heavier than the g80. I guess it is plated. It feels definetly better than a rubber dome. The keys are extremly silent because you barely bottom out. I like it when i have closed earphones and can't hear any clicks anymore, so that is absolutely no problem for me. But i think i like bottoming out, but that would be tiring with this keyboard as it requieres much force to do so. I havn't played any games with it so far, so gonna do it next.

I have tried cherry blacks before and judging from the feeling, i could go with them over whites or browns. I havn't tried latter but the feel is very similar to white i think and they are very loud from what i hear in the youtube videos (which browns are not on a plated keyboard?). Well, first i try these two more and eventually send them back.

I try to report later how the g81 did in games.


Actually, the Cherry MX Browns don't make a sound (well, not like the MX Blues or Buckling Springs). The sound you're hearing in the YouTube videos are of people bottoming out their keystrokes (they're hitting their keys as opposed to just _pressing_ them).

As for whether or not the Browns are plate-mounted: that depends. For example, the Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch boards have the MX Browns mounted on a plate.

Regarding the feel as compared to the MX Clears (unless they really are the Whites, which I was told are rare and hard to find): the Clears use a stiffer spring than the Browns, but that's almost the only difference. Unfortunately, I can't speak from real-world experience concerning the actual differences in the way that I would probably describe them.

But getting back to the sound: among the popular switches, the only ones that make a sound are the MX Blues and the Buckling Springs. The Buckling Springs are considered to be loud while the MX Blues make more of a subtle click sound. But when bottoming out, nearly all mechanical keyboards can be very loud.


----------



## coffeejunky

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Do you mean that it might be distracting for gaming? Because for typing, having both a tactile bump and an audible click can be quite a satisfying experience.

Both the Cherry MX Browns and Blues definitely fit the category of requiring a light touch for actuation, but the Browns are noticeably a little lighter. Fortunately, both switch types actuate about halfway down (about 2mm down) which is really, _really_ nice for typing.

Check this out: when hovering your wrists while typing, the superiority of mechanical switches like the MX Browns or Blues really shines. This is because hovering your wrists almost forces you to use a lighter touch on the keys which also makes it much easier to not bottom out each keystroke. This was something that I actually discovered on accident a couple of days after getting my Majestouch Tactile Click (my first and only mechanical): I was enjoying the typing experience so much that I would just open Notepad and jam. At some point, I raised my wrists up for some reason; I think it was a natural reaction to the feel of the Blues. One of my favorite things about typing like this is that it feels like my hands are just _floating_ over my keyboard.

But as for specific keyboard recommendations, your best bets might be either the Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch, or the Tactile Click. The Tactile Touch has the Browns, and the Tactile Click has the Blues.

The Cherry MX Browns don't make a sound. The sound you're hearing in the YouTube videos are of people bottoming out their keystrokes (they're hitting their keys as opposed to just _pressing_ them).

As for whether or not the Browns are plate-mounted: that depends. For example, the Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch boards have the MX Browns mounted on a plate.

Regarding the feel as compared to the MX Clears (unless they really are the Whites, which I was told are rare and hard to find): the Clears use a stiffer spring than the Browns, but that's almost the only difference. Unfortunately, I can't speak from real-world experience concerning the actual differences as I would probably describe them.

But getting back to the sound: among the popular switches, the only ones that make a sound are the MX Blues and the Buckling Springs. The Buckling Springs are considered to be loud while the MX Blues make more of a subtle click sound. But when bottoming out, nearly all mechanical keyboards can be very loud.


Very helpful indeed, thankyou. I'm really hoping to see an improvement over my scissor switch keyboard. 
I really would love a majestouch, but it's just out of my price range, I guess I could save for a while longer, but I've found some alternatives.

Within my budget I have found the following -

- i-rocks KR-6230 - Â£60 - concerns with this are that the button layout may just drive me nuts, in particular the question mark/slash key location. 
- Scorpius M10 - -Â£65 - I've heard horror stories about horrible soldering on this board. Is this a widespread issue? I don't want to spend alot of money on a keyboard only for it to last a year and then die. Is this really worth Â£5 more than the irocks? 
- Cherry G84-4100 (63 key version) - Â£40 - main issue with this is the switches, how do they compare to blues/browns for typing? I hear they bottom out lower which might be an issue, but I guess it would be more similar to the laptop keyboards I have become accustomed to.

Thoughts on the above.

(p.s. sorry manyak for duplicating from a PM, I wan't intending on posting in here again about my search, and as you own 2 of the 3 above keyboards I thought I would go straight to the horses mouth)


----------



## De-Zant

My 6Gv2 arrived here yesterday.

For some reason, it's quieter than my HP wireless rubber dome that I had before this.
Anything special that makes the 6gv2 so silent?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


I have recieved the cherry g80-3000 with white switches and the g81-3000 with cherry MY ones. Comparing this g80 with rubber dome keyboard, i can say that it feels for sure better. Actions like striking, using skills get a new feeling, its more fun, not much but it is worth it. Likewise simple typing ofcourse feels also better. Rubber domes really are swamps.

So now as i am writing this i use the g81-3000 and i don't know what to think of it. First off this keyboard is much heavier than the g80. I guess it is plated. It feels definetly better than a rubber dome. The keys are extremly silent because you barely bottom out. I like it when i have closed earphones and can't hear any clicks anymore, so that is absolutely no problem for me. But i think i like bottoming out, but that would be tiring with this keyboard as it requieres much force to do so. I havn't played any games with it so far, so gonna do it next.

I have tried cherry blacks before and judging from the feeling, i could go with them over whites or browns. I havn't tried latter but the feel is very similar to white i think and they are very loud from what i hear in the youtube videos (which browns are not on a plated keyboard?). Well, first i try these two more and eventually send them back.

I try to report later how the g81 did in games.



The G81 uses MY switches, which are mechanical over membrane. They are very, very poorly regarded and I personally can't stand them. Ultra-stiff linear with an exponential bottoming out? Ugh. Like typing on stale marshmallows. Their only good point is that they'll last forever due to having few moving parts and no tactile bump on the stem to wear out.

Ironically I'm about to buy a baker's dozen of G81-7000 keyboards for their doubleshot keycaps.


----------



## Manyak

coffeejunky: I forgot to mention in the PM, you could also try looking for a Siig Minitouch (NOT the _Plus_ model) on ebay.


----------



## TwoCables

You're welcome, coffeejunky! I think we are on the right track now.


----------



## Jalal

Thank you TwoCables. I knew that the sound comes from bottoming out, but can you press them in such a way that they are actually as quiet as rubber domes?

I like the MY switches so far. Was more fun playing with them RTS (WC3 in this case) than with the Cherry clears and i spam the keys a lot in those games. But they are very fatiguing een when not bottoming out, that unfortunately may be the reason to send this keyboard back. The cherry blacks were considerably lighter. Right now i feel pain in my arm


----------



## thiru

My ears.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jalal* 
Thank you TwoCables. I knew that the sound comes from bottoming out, but can you press them in such a way that they are actually as quiet as rubber domes?

I like the MY switches so far. Was more fun playing with them RTS (WC3 in this case) than with the Cherry clears and i spam the keys a lot in those games. But they are very fatiguing een when not bottoming out, that unfortunately may be the reason to send this keyboard back. The cherry blacks were considerably lighter. Right now i feel pain in my arm

Using a proper typing technique is probably the best way. The proper typing technique involves hovering your wrists while typing as opposed to just keeping them planted on a wrist rest or on a desk. This allows the hands and wrists to be very relaxed (along with the rest of your body for the most part) and it almost causes them to type gently.

I recommend starting with your wrists as high as possible while still being able to type, and then experiment with different heights.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 





My ears.

Oh damn, I cringed at the sound of that rubber dome. As soon as he gave it the Thumb's Down, I lol'd and said "yeah, no kidding!"

Nice.


----------



## Jalal

Could you make a sound sample of you typing?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jalal* 
Could you make a sound sample of you typing?

It's not possible for me to do that at this time. However, here are some YouTube search criteria ideas that will give you more than enough videos to get an idea of how different keyboards and switches sound:

cherry mx blue
cherry mx brown
cherry mx black
majestouch
filco majestouch
das model s keyboard (the word "keyboard" has to be included once in a while)
steelseries 7g
steelseries 6gv2
cherry g80
buckling spring
ibm model m keyboard
unicomp customizer
unicomp spacesaver
dell at101w
abs m1
mechanical keyboard
mechanical keyboard review
There's also the video that's at the end of this article:

http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg...mystified.aspx


----------



## Jalal

I found one typing on a cherry keyboard with browns where the sound was okay. The other people bottom out very hard. So i have to try it myself i guess. Nice list nevertheless., thanks for that. The nearest Retailer who sells the filco with browns is keyboardco, so does anyone know whats their return policy? Can i send the keybord back for just not liking it?


----------



## thiru

Quote:

Items can be returned within 30 days of purchase if boxed, unused and in perfect condition, whereby a refund will be given less the costs of carriage & handling. In the unlikely event of your goods being delivered faulty or damaged, you must contact us within 7 days of the date of delivery in order for us to arrange a replacement or provide a refund. We endeavour to respond to complaints within five working days. By purchasing a product you are agreeing to the above terms and conditions.
Not sure how to interpret that.


----------



## insaneXIII

My Das Model S Ultimate came in the mail today! I honestly cannot think of any words to describe how typing feels on this board, I guess "amazing" will have to do for now







The blank keys look awesome as well. I am not a very good touch typer though, so I am messing up quite a bit and I find myself looking down at the keyboard then thinking "oh right"


----------



## KipH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *coffeejunky* 
Within my budget I have found the following -

- i-rocks KR-6230 - Â£60 - concerns with this are that the button layout may just drive me nuts, in particular the question mark/slash key location.
- Scorpius M10 - -Â£65 -Is this really worth Â£5 more than the irocks?
- Cherry G84-4100 (63 key version) - Â£40 -
Thoughts on the above.

I have the i-rocks. I went from $10 rubber domes to a g15 to the I-rocks. There are 2 issues with the rock:
The Keys layout. Its not bad typing in it, you get used to it fast. The odd thing is when you go to another keyboard and that one feels wrong. The rock just feels right.
Speed: I seem to type so fast now that I mess letters or add a space in the wrong place. But that would probably be fixed by typing properly. I use a 4 finger hunt and peck method. I really should learn to t ype.

I would recommend getting it, or saving the extra to get the majestouch. You won't be sorry.


----------



## Jalal

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Not sure how to interpret that.

Oh didnt find that pasage on their site. Well, then i think it's clear that you can't send it back for just not liking.

btw I really have fun gaming on those MY switches.







If you get it right it doesnt fatigue thta much anymore. But for now i switch again to the clears.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jalal* 
I found one typing on a cherry keyboard with browns where the sound was okay. The other people bottom out very hard. So i have to try it myself i guess. Nice list nevertheless., thanks for that. The nearest Retailer who sells the filco with browns is keyboardco, so does anyone know whats their return policy? Can i send the keybord back for just not liking it?

You're welcome! The more videos you watch, the deeper and better your understanding will be. Not only that, but you'll continue to get a clearer and clearer idea of what you want.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Rare to see these on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/Filco-Majestouch...item20b3629750


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Rare to see these on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/Filco-Majestouch...item20b3629750


Whoa.


----------



## lmnop

remember when elitekeyboards put up that refurbished Majestouch and Topre Realforce (Jap Layout) not to long ago? people bid so high that they could of bought a brand new one for dollars and cents. ridiculous.

someone will buy it.


----------



## insaneXIII

I want to bid on it but I just got a das


----------



## Jalal

I've a question. After testing the cherry mx clear switches intensively, i realized that imo they are too small of an upgrade to my rubber dome. Really just somewhat better and not worth 50â‚¬. I know that the experience might differ on plate mounted switches but i doubt it would effect me that much.

So my quetion is: Might browns then fit me? Is there someone who dislikes the clears but likes the browns? Any advice?


----------



## Jalal

I've a question. After testing the cherry mx clear switches intensively, i realized that imo they are too small of an upgrade to my rubber dome. Really just somewhat better and not worth 50â‚¬. I know that the experience might differ on plate mounted switches but i doubt it would effect me that much.

So my quetion is: Might browns then fit me? Is there someone who dislikes the clears but likes the browns? Any advice?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Browns require less force than Clears, so you might not like them.


----------



## Jalal

But othwerwise the feeling is really the same? Just a bit less tactile right?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


But othwerwise the feeling is really the same? Just a bit less tactile right?


Cherry MX Brown are less tactile than Clear yes.


----------



## Crazy9000

How long have you been using them for? It can take a little while to get used to mechanical switches.

I would say go for black switches, or blues. They are the most different from the clears, and should at least tell you which part of the clears you didn't like. The browns are just like the clears, but a bit lighter, so I would not recommend them for you.


----------



## TwoCables

Jalal: if you could improve the MX Clears to be perfect for you, then what things would you change?


----------



## GeforceGTS

Look at that guys feedback page who is selling the Filco, third one down


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GeforceGTS*


Look at that guys feedback page who is selling the Filco, third one down










What? People need a manual for that?


----------



## GeforceGTS

Apparently :l

If you really wanted to look into something like that, wouldn't you just google it?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GeforceGTS*


Apparently :l

If you really wanted to look into something like that, wouldn't you just google it?


Actually, not in this case. I'd probably just look down.


----------



## Jalal

I am over my first impression which was better than my current. I played several hours with it and also typed enough and totally got used to it. I have tried Blacks before and i liked them more, at least Blacks were/felt special. And thanks all. That makes everything very easy. Now i already have a keyboard in sight.

edit: I really don't know what i would change with the clears. but blacks will do.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


I am over my first impression which was better than my current. I played several hours with it and also typed enough and totally got used to it. I have tried Blacks before and i liked them more, at least Blacks were/felt special. And thanks all. That makes everything very easy. Now i already have a keyboard in sight.


It sounds to me like maybe you liked the Blacks because they didn't have any tactile feedback, thereby showcasing the spring (which really emphasizes the difference between rubber dome and mechanical).

However, Cherry MX Blues are very different from rubber domes too in that they have a very crisp and very precise feeling along with a satisfying click upon actuation.


----------



## lmnop

I can't remember the cynic bastard at geekhack who said this, but your never going to find the perfect Cherry MX switch. I think you will have a more pleasant experience collecting mechanical keyboards and using whatever keyboard you are in the mood for than hunting for the perfect switch.


----------



## Jalal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


It sounds to me like maybe you liked the Blacks because they didn't have any tactile feedback, thereby showcasing the spring (which really emphasizes the difference between rubber dome and mechanical).

However, Cherry MX Blues are very different from rubber domes too in that they have a very crisp and very precise feeling along with a satisfying click upon actuation.


I like having closed headhpones on, playing without hearing any click sound not even that of my mouse. I even like sometimes to put the game sound off, if i don't hear all this it feels like there is no resistance in clicking the mouse and such. So the clicking sound of Blues might bother me. If the feeling is good though closed headphones may solve the noise problem. But the biggest thing i fear is that i would bother the people around me. I heard people say that the clicking sound goes beyond rooms : P

I think i stick to Blacks, i don't like to reutrn this clear switch kb now and getting a blue just to return it again. And i can't wait until that Razer kb is in stores, until then the special offer of the kb i am aiming could expire.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I can't remember the cynic bastard at geekhack who said this, but your never going to find the perfect Cherry MX switch. I think you will have a more pleasant experience collecting mechanical keyboards and using whatever keyboard you are in the mood for than hunting for the perfect switch.


Cynic bastard? : D Yes i thought exactly the same today. I should just start with what i am satisfied most with and buy others later on.

btw i like the g81 more than g80-3000 with clears.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I can't remember the cynic bastard at geekhack who said this, but your never going to find the perfect Cherry MX switch. I think you will have a more pleasant experience collecting mechanical keyboards and using whatever keyboard you are in the mood for than hunting for the perfect switch.


This.

It is why I can be caught saying that I would love to have more than one mechanical keyboard if I had the money and space for it. Actually, I'd love to have like 20+ different mechanical keyboards. You know, just a nice library of them.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


I like having closed headhpones on, playing without hearing any click sound not even that of my mouse. I even like sometimes to put the game sound off, if i don't hear all this it feels like there is no resistance in clicking the mouse and such. So the clicking sound of Blues might bother me. If the feeling is good though closed headphones may solve the noise problem. But the biggest thing i fear is that i would bother the people around me. I heard people say that the clicking sound goes beyond rooms : P

I think i stick to Blacks, i don't like to reutrn this clear switch kb now and getting a blue just to return it again. And i can't wait until that Razer kb is in stores, until then the special offer of the kb i am aiming could expire.

Cynic bastard? : D Yes i thought exactly the same today. I should just start with what i am satisfied most with and buy others later on.

btw i like the g81 more than g80-3000 with clears.


The clicks of the Cherry MX Blues is quieter than the sound of bottoming out. Even a keyboard with the Cherry MX Blacks can be loud and obnoxious to others. This is especially when gaming thanks to it being next to impossible to avoid bottoming out during a game - especially during intense moments.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


The clicks of the Cherry MX Blues is quieter than the sound of bottoming out. Even a keyboard with the Cherry MX Blacks can be loud and obnoxious to others. This is especially when gaming thanks to it being next to impossible to avoid bottoming out during a game - especially during intense moments.


There is of course several methods to make it quiet, like putting those dental rubber bands on the bottom of each key.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


There is of course several methods to make it quiet, like putting those dental rubber bands on the bottom of each key.


Indeed there are!

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:8857


----------



## Jalal

Okay thanks all.


----------



## Crazy9000

Is there any 30g realforce's that only cost an arm or a leg, and not both? lol


----------



## ch_123

Not only will they cost you multiple limbs, they are only available in Japanese layout.


----------



## Maytan

Got my Das. No squeaking, I guess the third time's the charm. The glossy finish is a bit scratched up, but I got a free warranty so I guess I can't complain.

Metadot's support was exceptional, but my next keyboard will definitely be a Deck or Unicomp.


----------



## lmnop

pick up a bottle of Novus to remove the scratches.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
pick up a bottle of Novus to remove the scratches.

Good idea. I've already ordered a ton of stuff today, might as well do it right away.


----------



## Tator Tot

I want to buy a Realforce 103 55G (as I seem to like 55G as my switch force) but damn do they cost way to much.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I want to buy a Realforce 103 55G (as I seem to like 55G as my switch force) but damn do they cost way to much.

I own one, and I think the price is justified. It's a great board.


----------



## Tator Tot

I don't have a spare $230 + Shipping laying around or I'd go for and sell my Deck (possibly.)


----------



## ch_123

A good few people over at Geekhack didn't really like the 55g Topre, and I think there were a few that ended up swapping theirs for 45g ones. Supposedly the force progression on the switches suits a more lower force key.

As for them costing too much, I used to agree with that before I got one... They're a real high quality, no bull**** keyboard with one of the better designs of mechanical switch on the market. There's very little to fault with them.


----------



## Tator Tot

I completely do understand the reason why they're so expensive and how good they are. It's just I don't have the cash and I want it.


----------



## runeazn

Mann do want a happy hacking :O
Dont want to break a arm and a leg


----------



## ch_123

Would I look like a douchebag if I pointed out that I got my HHKB for about 100 euro?


----------



## Tator Tot

Not unless I got your address so I can come and kill you for it.


----------



## runeazn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Would I look like a douchebag if I pointed out that I got my HHKB for about 100 euro?









Can iask how?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runeazn* 
Can iask how?

His fortune cookie said "you're getting lucky tonight". He chose to go to a keyboard store instead of a bar.


----------



## ch_123

eBay.

It was for the original HHKB Pro model as opposed to the Pro 2 currently sold. It has no USB hub but it is otherwise the same deal.

The one I got is about 5 years old, but was in great condition. I replaced the blank keycaps with lettered ones, because with the odd layout, it's nice to have something to remind you what you are doing


----------



## Marin

I wish my Filco had the same keycaps as my HHKB.


----------



## Tator Tot

Can't you order custom keycaps of that style?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Can't you order custom keycaps of that style?

Custom keycaps are atrociously expensive, especially if you want to replace all of your keys. OCN is probably loosing money on their keycaps, and that's $5 each for a large order of the same one.

Also I don't think you can usually get them textured like the topre's are, but I've never actually ordered any and tried.


----------



## Domino

What can you guys tell me about this keyboard?

KB-595
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Product...19815(ME).aspx

I'm just looking for a small keyboard. Don't have the funds right now to push for a mechanical. :/


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Domino*


What can you guys tell me about this keyboard?

KB-595
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX19815(ME).aspx

I'm just looking for a small keyboard. Don't have the funds right now to push for a mechanical. :/


It's listed specs are 3mm Travel Distance, 30.10 Grams of force, & 5million clicks.

Not sure if it's Mech or not. Can't find any info regarding that.

Though why not save a bit and grab a M10? I've got one right now and I"m rather happy with it. Overall it feels about the same as my Tactile Click Filco board.


----------



## lmnop

it's a re-branded Cherry G84-4100.


----------



## Crazy9000

How small does it have to be? You can get a mechanical for not much more

http://www.provantage.com/cherry-ele...2~7CHER04H.htm


----------



## Domino

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


It's listed specs are 3mm Travel Distance, 30.10 Grams of force, & 5million clicks.

Not sure if it's Mech or not. Can't find any info regarding that.

Though why not save a bit and grab a M10? I've got one right now and I"m rather happy with it. Overall it feels about the same as my Tactile Click Filco board.


well not only is price a factor but shopping online in general. ....not my choice.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


it's a re-branded Cherry G84-4100.


do you know what switches it uses?


----------



## Domino

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


How small does it have to be? You can get a mechanical for not much more

http://www.provantage.com/cherry-ele...2~7CHER04H.htm


Well it also needs to be Canadian.









NCIX/Newegg/Memoryexpress. Might be able to do online. i dunno.

small basically without the num pad small.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Domino*


well not only is price a factor but shopping online in general. ....not my choice.

do you know what switches it uses?


G84-4100 are not very popular sometimes people will give you one for free or you can pick one up on eBay for $10-15. MSRP is $75.

Cherry ML switches are Cherry's version of a scissor switch. they are tactile, non-clicky. actuate at 1.5mm (52g).

Phaedrus2129 review here.


----------



## Domino

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


G84-4100 are not very popular sometimes people will give you one for free or you can pick one up on eBay for $10-15. MSRP is $75.

Cherry ML switches are Cherry's version of a scissor switch. they are tactile, non-clicky. actuate at 1.5mm (52g).

Phaedrus2129 review here.


hmmm, i kinda like scissor switches.

BUT, one more quesiton. How sure are you that this is the same as the cherry? I look at a youtube vid and I think it said something about membranes?


----------



## lmnop

oh your right it's not the G84-4100. my apologies.


----------



## Domino

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


oh your right it's not the G84-4100. my apologies.


what are membrane switches like?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Domino*


what are membrane switches like?


membranes are rubber domes.


----------



## Genkaz92

I must say, so far typing on the Deck appears to have quite a few curious effects on my typing in general, I am still getting used to this thing, but it certainly gives an impression that it will be significantly more accurate and comfortable when I am fully used to it then on my last rubber dome, not only due to the actual key structure but also due to the better key spacing. A large quantity of individuals have said that typing on a mechanical keyboard sooner or later made their typing generally better, and I now perfectly understand why it is more then possible.


----------



## lmnop

hows the impulse to buy another?


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


hows the impulse to buy another?










Not there yet.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


membranes are rubber domes.


Quick, someone call the semantics police!


----------



## xHassassin

ABS M1 and the Scorpio M10 are all sold out wherever I look. Gonna have to shell out more for a filco or something.


----------



## lmnop

ABS M1 is discontinued. iOne Scorpius M10 here.


----------



## ch_123

Some alternatives -

Adesso MK-135B
Unicomp Spacesaver


----------



## lmnop

you posted the wrong link. the link for the Adesso MKB-135B is the DSI/Solidtek 6600.


----------



## ch_123

*facepalm*

Had them both open and got them mixed up. Such are the joys of tabbed browsing...

Fixed now.


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


ABS M1 is discontinued. iOne Scorpius M10 here.


Yeah but my budget is like $50.

If only buy.com had free shipping for the M10.


----------



## coffeejunky

Just one last question. I have my choice narrowed down now to two. They are as follows -
Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless MX Blue Â£105
Adesso MKB-125B - Â£60

I really love the aesthetics of the tenkeyless, not so keen on the looks of the Adesso, plus the Adesso doesn't have nkro, not a total dealbreaker for me though.

The question is, the Filco is nearly double the price of the alternatives, but does it deserve this price? If I'm spending that much I want something that is going to last, and feel fantastic to use. I just need to be reassured that the majestouch is really worth the money


----------



## ch_123

Well, it's as good as the keyboards in the same price region, and generally better than ones that are in lower price brackets. iOne, the OEM vendor for the Adesso, has a bad track record with QA, particularly in regards to soldering.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *coffeejunky* 
Just one last question. I have my choice narrowed down now to two. They are as follows -
Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless MX Blue Â£105
Adesso MKB-125B - Â£60

I really love the aesthetics of the tenkeyless, not so keen on the looks of the Adesso, plus the Adesso doesn't have nkro, not a total dealbreaker for me though.

The question is, the Filco is nearly double the price of the alternatives, but does it deserve this price? If I'm spending that much I want something that is going to last, and feel fantastic to use. I just need to be reassured that the majestouch is really worth the money









I paid $145 USD for the Tactile Click NKRO, and if I had known what I was going to end up with, then I probably would've offered Elite Keyboards a higher price for it.


----------



## Maytan

Hey Christine, how exactly does this Novus stuff work? Apparently, #3 is for deep scratches. Now obviously, the scratches aren't too deep. So I assume the order of operations would be to clean it up with #1, then use #2 for the smaller scratches, and repeat a cleaning with #1; correct?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Hey Christine, how exactly does this Novus stuff work? Apparently, #3 is for deep scratches. Now obviously, the scratches aren't too deep. So I assume the order of operations would be to clean it up with #1, then use #2 for the smaller scratches, and repeat a cleaning with #1; correct?

Nah it's just #2 -> #1.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Nah it's just #2 -> #1.

Ah! Sweet, thanks!


----------



## geoxile

Just found out that the Xarmor U9 is indeed plate mounted -_-

Who was the man that posted the review! Cactus Surprise tiem


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *geoxile* 
Just found out that the Xarmor U9 is indeed plate mounted -_-

Who was the man that posted the review! Cactus Surprise tiem

It was our very own Phaedrus2129!

http://hardwareaware.com/review/xarmor-u9bl/


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *geoxile* 
Just found out that the Xarmor U9 is indeed plate mounted -_-

Problem, officer?

And those pictures make it look plate mounted to me..


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *geoxile* 
Just found out that the Xarmor U9 is indeed plate mounted -_-

Who was the man that posted the review! Cactus Surprise tiem

But if you look at his pictures, they are PCB mounted


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
But if you look at his pictures, they are PCB mounted









Phaedrus said somewhat recently in this thread that he later learned that it is plate mounted. But I'm having trouble finding that post (but give me a minute, I think I'm getting close).

*Edit:* Here it is. I told a white lie: I hadn't tried searching until just now. I needed a few seconds to find it.









http://www.overclock.net/10481156-post6387.html

Oh, then there's this too:

http://www.overclock.net/10533717-post6746.html


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
But if you look at his pictures, they are PCB mounted










Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Phaedrus said somewhat recently in this thread that he later learned that it is plate mounted. But I'm having trouble finding that post (but give me a minute, I think I'm getting close).

*Edit:* Here it is. I told a white lie: I hadn't tried searching until just now. I needed a few seconds to find it.









http://www.overclock.net/10481156-post6387.html

Oh, then there's this too:

http://www.overclock.net/10533717-post6746.html


----------



## Phaedrus2129

They are indeed plate mounted. XArmor put up their own dissection which took it farther apart than I did. I stopped at removing the inner assembly from the upper housing because it was held on with snaps, and my main objective was just to assure that the soldering was ok.


----------



## ch_123

I'm pretty sure that all OEM keyboards made by people other than Cherry are plate mounted ones. Similarly, I don't think Cherry made any G80-3000 variants that used plate mounted switches. Some of the older models like the G80-1000 may have had them, but I'm not 100% sure.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Not there yet.

sheeeeeeeeeeeeeit I must be a dope fiend.


----------



## Jalal

I have read the Deck 82 fire has ghosting problems, does it also apply to the gold one? Anyone knows?


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


I have read the Deck 82 fire has ghosting problems, does it also apply to the *gold one*? Anyone knows?










Didn't know they had a gold version.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


sheeeeeeeeeeeeeit I must be a dope fiend.


Would you kindly rephrase.

Also, would someone kindly remind me of the highly popular macro key program around here?


----------



## lmnop

Deck used to have a 82 Gold and 105 Gold


















I am not sure if the Deck 82 Gold had the same ghosting problems.


----------



## W4LNUT5

^^^ Gold 105 looks shmexy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genkaz92*


Would you kindly rephrase.

Also, would someone kindly remind me of the highly popular macro key program around here?


Simple: Sharpkeys
Complex: Autohotkey

Autohotkey being more involved, has far more features.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Would you kindly rephrase.

Also, would someone kindly remind me of the highly popular macro key program around here?

nevermind.

AutoHotKey, SharpKeys


----------



## mark45

Greetings from the UK here.

I am new here and to mechanical keyboards.

Thank you for this guide.

However - I am unsure on which keyboard to get...logic tells me to get the Cherry MX BROWN Filco Majestouch keyboard because of the 'middle ground' description. As I will be gaming and typing I am confused on which switch type to get.

I am enticed by the Steelseries 7G, however I do not like the short backspace and the massive enter key. I like the idea of the smoothness...coming from a "normal/cheaper/standard" keyboard. I would imagine a MX black would be like this i.e. the key pressed flat out anyway?

Please note: as I am from the UK the Steelseries 6Gv2 is NOT available and I do not wish to buy it from steelseries.com because of the shipping costs which totals to nearly the same amount (~Â£15) of a 7G and because of the US keyboard layout (no offence or anything lol).

Please advise me what should I do?

Thanks.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


Greetings from the UK here.

I am new here and to mechanical keyboards.

Thank you for this guide.

However - I am unsure on which keyboard to get...logic tells me to get the Cherry MX BROWN Filco Majestouch keyboard because of the 'middle ground' description. As I will be gaming and typing I am confused on which switch type to get.

I am enticed by the Steelseries 7G, however I do not like the short backspace and the massive enter key. I like the idea of the smoothness...coming from a "normal/cheaper/standard" keyboard. I would imagine a MX black would be like this i.e. the key pressed flat out anyway?

Please note: as I am from the UK the Steelseries 6Gv2 is NOT available and I do not wish to buy it from steelseries.com because of the shipping costs which totals to nearly the same amount (~Â£15) of a 7G and because of the US keyboard layout (no offence or anything lol).

Please advise me what should I do?

Thanks.


what is your budget?


----------



## mark45

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


what is your budget?


lol sorry forgot

I'd say about ~Â£100 which is $155 according to google.


----------



## runeazn

here you go mate : http://www.keyboardco.com/

uk price









any filco or das is fine








or a optimus maximus 1,499. POUNDS!!!!!!!!


----------



## GeforceGTS

EDIT:

nvm <3 ;x


----------



## runeazn

thats why i said any filco or das is fine since they are quality keyboards


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I am not sure if the Deck 82 Gold had the same ghosting problems.


Why would one colour of Deck keyboard have controller issues, but not the others?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genkaz92*


Would you kindly rephrase.

Also, would someone kindly remind me of the highly popular macro key program around here?


In addition to SharpKeys and AutoHotKey, there is also KeyboardLink. However, this one may be one of those programs that needs to be left open in the background in order to keep your configuration. SharpKeys, on the other hand, is just a Registry editor, so therefore it doesn't need to be left open. It just edits the Registry, you reboot, and it's done.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


Greetings from the UK here.

I am new here and to mechanical keyboards.

Thank you for this guide.

However - I am unsure on which keyboard to get...logic tells me to get the Cherry MX BROWN Filco Majestouch keyboard because of the 'middle ground' description. As I will be gaming and typing I am confused on which switch type to get.

I am enticed by the Steelseries 7G, however I do not like the short backspace and the massive enter key. I like the idea of the smoothness...coming from a "normal/cheaper/standard" keyboard. I would imagine a MX black would be like this i.e. the key pressed flat out anyway?

Please note: as I am from the UK the Steelseries 6Gv2 is NOT available and I do not wish to buy it from steelseries.com because of the shipping costs which totals to nearly the same amount (~Â£15) of a 7G and because of the US keyboard layout (no offence or anything lol).

Please advise me what should I do?

Thanks.


Do you do a lot of double-tapping in games? And if so, then do you hit the key twice, or do you do it in such a way where you're not allowing the key to come all the way back up before that 2nd keypress? If you're just hitting it twice and allowing the key to come all the back up (which can be visualized in slow motion), then even a keyboard with the Cherry MX Blues is worthy of consideration (such as the Majestouch Tactile Click). But if you double-tap where you don't let the key come all the way back up, then a keyboard with the Browns or Blacks is a better choice.


----------



## ch_123

EDIT: This is wrong, ignore.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Bear in mind that with the Blue switches, the actuation point stays in the same place, but the point at which it clicks changes. So the key un-registers at the same point that it originally registers, but you don't get any tactile feedback to go with it. In that regard, it is no worse a choice of gaming switch the Blacks are, it's slightly disorientating when you use it first because you expect the tactility to be in the same place.

In fact, as with White Alps, the point at which the Blue Cherry clicks and unclicks is above the point at which it actuates, which isn't good given that click switches are meant to click at the point when it actuates, not before it.


I'm testing it right now, and I'm finding that actuation occurs at the exact same time as the click. I am also finding that de-actuation is occurring above the point where it actuated. In other words, the release point is *above* the actuation point in the key travel (as the key is slowly allowed to come back up, it stops sending the key signal at a higher point than the actuation occurred at). This makes the Cherry MX Blues bad for double-tapping when the gamer isn't allowing the key to come all the way back up. But for people like me who just perform two hits in rapid succession with a full release of the key, it's perfectly fine.


----------



## ch_123

I don't have one to hand to test, but from Cherry themselves -










Where the pressure point is the place where it clicks, and the operating points being where it registers. Note the different locations of the 'bumps' representing where the magic white yoke on the slider does whatever it does to make the click noise.

I also have vague memories of the click point being seperate to the actuation point back when I used to have a Blue Cherry Filco. I'll test later with one of my Dolch keyboards.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


I don't have one to hand to test, but from Cherry themselves -










Where the pressure point is the place where it clicks, and the operating points being where it registers. Note the different locations of the 'bumps' representing where the magic white yoke on the slider does whatever it does to make the click noise.

I also have vague memories of the click point being seperate to the actuation point back when I used to have a Blue Cherry Filco. I'll test later with one of my Dolch keyboards.


When I press a key as carefully and as slowly as I possibly can (even with two hands for more control), the click and the actuation point seem to be at the exact same place. I'm not saying that this means that the graph is wrong, but I'm just describing the way it seems.

However, the tactile bump is definitely felt before actuation occurs and also before the click occurs. In order of occurrence in the downward key stroke: it starts out feeling linear, then there's resistance (the tactile feedback), then there's a click along with simultaneous actuation, and then the rest of the key travel is linear again.

In other words, the "pressure point" in the graph is referring to the silent tactile feedback that occurs before the click is heard (which again is the exact moment of actuation); it's not referring to the click. I mean, now that I've tested it this carefully, I am 100% certain about it.


----------



## ch_123

Wait, reset point is the point at which the switch resets, I was thinking that it was referring to the un-click. I'm a ******.

In fact, I went off and opened up a Cherry switch, and it would seem that due to the way the thing works, it will reset at a slightly higher point than it would on the down press.

In fairness, isn't double tapping really a psychological crutch? The key will send multiple characters anway if you hold down. Guess it's a case of how fast you can mash the key compared with the typematic rate of the keyboard.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Wait, reset point is the point at which the switch resets, I was thinking that it was referring to the un-click. I'm a ******.

In fact, I went off and opened up a Cherry switch, and it would seem that due to the way the thing works, it will reset at a slightly higher point than it would on the down press.

In fairness, isn't double tapping really a psychological crutch? The key will send multiple characters anway if you hold down. Guess it's a case of how fast you can mash the key compared with the typematic rate of the keyboard.


Yes, except you need to hold the key for a certain time before it starts spamming the key. You can change this setting, but it would make writing annoying.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Wait, reset point is the point at which the switch resets, I was thinking that it was referring to the un-click.

In fact, I went off and opened up a Cherry switch, and it would seem that due to the way the thing works, it will reset at a slightly higher point than it would on the down press.

In fairness, isn't double tapping really a psychological crutch? The key will send multiple characters anway if you hold down. Guess it's a case of how fast you can mash the key compared with the typematic rate of the keyboard.


Double-tapping is referring to a gaming maneuver for things like dodging in Unreal Tournament 3. If a gamer has a polished/clean double-tapping technique where he/she does not allow the key to come all the way back up before the 2nd tap, then the Cherry MX Blues would piss that gamer off. This is because in order to properly double-tap with the Cherry MX Blues, the switch must be allowed all the way back up before the 2nd tap in order to ensure that both keystrokes go through. Otherwise, it may not reset prior to the 2nd finger motion of the double-tap technique which means the dodge isn't performed which also means the gamer either gets hit or dies.

But for casual gamers like me who have a sloppier double-tapping technique, we just quickly hit the key twice which means that the switch is allowed to come all the way back up before the 2nd key press. This means that it always resets in the middle of the double-tap which also means that the dodge maneuver is performed.

In other words: due to the reset point being higher than the point of actuation, the Cherry MX Blues would frustrate a professional gamer who has become used to a very refined, sophisticated/clean double-tapping technique. This is also why the Cherry MX Blacks are the best for gaming: the reset point and actuation point are practically at the exact same spot.

So double-tapping is not possible when just pressing and holding a key in order to let the repeat rate take over thereby giving you two keystrokes. All that does is cause you to move over which is significantly slower than the dodge maneuver. Imagine that in the time span of about 1 whole second you see that you're about to be shot. So in the blink of an eye you double-tap to dodge. This causes you to jump out of the way (to the side) and therefore you dodge the shot that the enemy has taken at you. But if you just press and hold a key, you simply move to the side which is too slow and therefore you get hit (and probably die too).

Therefore, due to the fact that the reset point of the Cherry MX Blues is higher than the actuation point, they are the worst mechanical switch for double tapping (at least when compared to other "good" mechanical switches).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Yes, except you need to hold the key for a certain time before it starts spamming the key. You can change this setting, but it would make writing annoying.


I'm confused. I use (and prefer) the settings below, and I never have problems with typing. Actually, I get more problems with the default settings because I'm sometimes too fast. I sometimes wish that I could tweak the repeat delay so that it was just a hair shorter.


----------



## Manyak

The repeat rate doesn't apply in games, only key_up/key_down events.


----------



## TwoCables

For the record, I never believed that the Repeat Rate applied to games.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


The repeat rate doesn't apply in games, only key_up/key_down events.


Which is why I sometimes use auto clickers/typers.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Why would one colour of Deck keyboard have controller issues, but not the others?


Model/Revision of the controller.

I've heard about the Deck Fire 82's controller issues before. I think there's a thing/thread on Geekhack about it but I'm not sure.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


For the record, I never believed that the Repeat Rate applied to games.


That was for ch_123


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


That was for ch_123










I know, but I didn't want him to think it was for me.


----------



## runeazn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
In addition to SharpKeys and AutoHotKey, there is also KeyboardLink. However, this one may be one of those programs that needs to be left open in the background in order to keep your configuration. SharpKeys, on the other hand, is just a Registry editor, so therefore it doesn't need to be left open. It just edits the Registry, you reboot, and it's done.









Do you do a lot of double-tapping in games? And if so, then do you hit the key twice, or do you do it in such a way where you're not allowing the key to come all the way back up before that 2nd keypress? If you're just hitting it twice and allowing the key to come all the back up (which can be visualized in slow motion), then even a keyboard with the Cherry MX Blues is worthy of consideration (such as the Majestouch Tactile Click). But if you double-tap where you don't let the key come all the way back up, then a keyboard with the Browns or Blacks is a better choice.

funnily i can feel the actuation and respring, so i always double-tap when i feel its resetting


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Model/Revision of the controller.

I've heard about the Deck Fire 82's controller issues before. I think there's a thing/thread on Geekhack about it but I'm not sure.

Yeah that's right. I believe it was only the Fire model and no other model.


----------



## spirates

..


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Why would one colour of Deck keyboard have controller issues, but not the others?

from Adam at Deck.

Quote:

The n-key issue is a known problem for the Fire 82 model. This happened because *we produced a large number of them at first before we discovered the issue. Currently the Fire 82 has been discontinued but all existing products will exhibit this issue.*

It should also be mentioned that none of the products on our site at present time will have this issue any longer.


----------



## mark45

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Do you do a lot of double-tapping in games? And if so, then do you hit the key twice, or do you do it in such a way where you're not allowing the key to come all the way back up before that 2nd keypress? If you're just hitting it twice and allowing the key to come all the back up (which can be visualized in slow motion), then even a keyboard with the Cherry MX Blues is worthy of consideration (such as the Majestouch Tactile Click). But if you double-tap where you don't let the key come all the way back up, then a keyboard with the Browns or Blacks is a better choice.

The only time I can think currently is pressing pageup/down to zoom in and out on some games and double tapping the W key to sprint.

As I don't do this often, I don't think it would be a problem as the games I play don't really need this action. Thank you for your suggestion









edit: looking at the FILCO Majestouch keyboard layout I am having one problem.
It would be PERFECT BUT there are no media keys which would come in very very handy.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mark45* 
The only time I can think currently is pressing pageup/down to zoom in and out on some games and double tapping the W key to sprint.

As I don't do this often, I don't think it would be a problem as the games I play don't really need this action. Thank you for your suggestion









I have the problem even when I don't double tap. I can't even play counterstrike with blue switches, since moving back and forth doesn't work. When I'm quickly switching between keys, like to peek out around a corner, I don't fully lift my fingers up. This makes the blue switches not work.

Watch yourself when you play next time, and see if you lift your fingers up when you move around. If you do, then the blue's should work fine.


----------



## thisispatrick

Say I stumble upon some money... do you guys think the Optimus Maximus is worth it? lol


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Say I stumble upon some money... do you guys think the Optimus Maximus is worth it? lol

Not in my opinion


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Say I stumble upon some money... do you guys think the Optimus Maximus is worth it? lol

Bahahahahahaha!

No sir..... not in the least.


----------



## thisispatrick

Waiting for that one person to say yes and provide a good explanation lol.


----------



## lmnop

you can buy a lot of keyboards with $2400.

Deck Legend 105, Topre Realforce 103, Kinesis Advantage, Datahand.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Say I stumble upon some money... do you guys think the Optimus Maximus is worth it? lol

Well just going on the switch type alone (Cherry MY's) and the fact that most people hate the Switches, I couldn't see why anyone would go for it..


----------



## lmnop

Optimus Maximus uses Cherry ML switches.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Optimus Maximus uses Cherry ML switches.

Still sucks


----------



## thisispatrick

After double checking the first page, what exactly are the differences between the MX, ML, MY, MT, MS, MTaco, MBlue, Mbrick, Mpotato switches?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

MX are PCB or plate mounted switches that come in a variety of flavors
ML are PCB mounted switches that are low profile
MY are switches over membranes


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
MX are PCB or plate mounted switches that come in a variety of flavors
ML are PCB mounted switches that are low profile
MY are switches over membranes

Thanks for the clarification. How different would typing on MX's compared to ML's be?


----------



## runeazn

ml are like mini mx and scisorry smal like









i am talking bs but i am thinking i am quite right lol


----------



## Manyak

ML switches feel kind of like an MX brown cut in half. If you take the MX brown's travel, and cut off the first half of it (putting the tactile bump at the very top), that's about it.

That's the best way I can think of describing it.


----------



## wontonforevuh

WOOOOOOOOOOOOO
just ordered a Das Pro Model S with student discount so it comes out to be $98

what should be expecting when i first use it?

in other news, my bank account took a nice hit, ordered a macbook pro, keyboard and electric toothbrush this past week...


----------



## thiru

Handgasm.


----------



## runeazn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wontonforevuh* 
WOOOOOOOOOOOOO
just ordered a Das Pro Model S with student discount so it comes out to be $98

what should be expecting when i first use it?

in other news, my bank account took a nice hit, ordered a macbook pro, keyboard and electric toothbrush this past week...

macboook!!
u traitor







j/k


----------



## mark45

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
...

Watch yourself when you play next time, and see if you lift your fingers up when you move around. If you do, then the blue's should work fine.

I made the following observation:

When playing/moving around I do indeed bring the full key up but I am not sure if it is because of my dodgey keyboard because it seems harder to hold the key in its place. But I can see that as being indeed useful in some situations.

I am not sure how much of a step-up to rubber dome > mx black would be in terms of typing if you are having to hit 'harder' on the keys as it requires more force I don't see why I should bother with that. Gaming I can understand in terms of less likely to hit the wrong key and pressing more key combinations but I don't see Â£100 as a worthy upgrade of a dome keyboard as you have to press these keys flat out anyway and there are not in my case that many situations that demands more keys to be hit on the keyboard...besides I am customed to this and can avoid doing this.

Perhaps this keyboard is not right for me as it seems that perhaps that I am uncompetitive although I do like to 'do good' lol.

The brown switches on the other hand are more appealing because of typing, a more enjoyable experience due to less force required? It can cater for my gaming needs allowing me to press extra keys anyway incase I need to.

But then again, I am used to the dome keys and if they are kind of like rubber dome as in letting the key 'reset' as in return to its normal idle state then I don't think I'll have a problem gaming on it and have a good typing experience.

All these things are whizzing around in my head preventing me from getting one.

After looking at this can someone please tell me if I have lost the plot, lol.


----------



## wontonforevuh

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runeazn* 
macboook!!
u traitor







j/k

im only using it to take notes and do some light gaming. macbooks arent all that overpriced(still a bit overpriced) and i got a free ipod and printer with it on top of a $100 student discount so it comes out to be a pretty nice deal. macs on the other hand are wayyyy overprices

besides ill always have my sig rig


----------



## Marin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runeazn* 
macboook!!
u traitor







j/k


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wontonforevuh* 
im only using it to take notes and do some light gaming. macbooks arent all that overpriced(still a bit overpriced) and i got a free ipod and printer with it on top of a $100 student discount so it comes out to be a pretty nice deal. macs on the other hand are wayyyy overprices

besides ill always have my sig rig

If Thinkpads vanished off the face of the earth, I'd probably buy a Macbook Pro. They're a lot better than people give them credit for.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
If Thinkpads vanished off the face of the earth, I'd probably buy a Macbook. They're a lot better than people give them credit for.

Same.

Well, the MPBs do have serious heating issues.


----------



## runeazn

lol HHKB XD?


----------



## Marin

My MBP has been fine while gaming. It does get hot but nothing to worry about temp wise for a comp.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runeazn* 
lol HHKB XD?

Yeah, works great. Installed the driver for it so all the function keys work on my MBP.


----------



## runeazn

do want :/


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *runeazn*


funnily i can feel the actuation and respring, so i always double-tap when i feel its resetting










And this is one reason why some people have absolutely no problem with them.

For those of you reading this not knowing what we are talking about, this is in reference to the Cherry MX Blues.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


The only time I can think currently is pressing pageup/down to zoom in and out on some games and double tapping the W key to sprint.

As I don't do this often, I don't think it would be a problem as the games I play don't really need this action. Thank you for your suggestion









edit: looking at the FILCO Majestouch keyboard layout I am having one problem.
It would be PERFECT BUT there are no media keys which would come in very very handy.


Fortunately, there are three programs that can be used which makes having separate macro keys absolutely unnecessary (and gimmicky):

SharpKeys - this is a very simple program that just edits the Registry in order to set your configurations. So, it's a graphical registry editor that just handles the keyboard.
KeyboardLink - I think this one needs to stay open in the background in order to keep your configurations. So I guess this one is superior to SharpKeys in that SharpKeys requires Windows to be logged off (soft restart) for the changes to take effect while this one might be able to handle changes on the fly. But, I don't like things running in the background, so my personal preference is SharpKeys.
AutoHotKey - This is just a script program thing that I don't know how to describe. It's not just for making keyboard macros or whatever - it's for almost anything you can think of (at least as far as I know - but I don't know much about it, except that it's extremely powerful).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wontonforevuh*


WOOOOOOOOOOOOO
just ordered a Das Pro Model S with student discount so it comes out to be $98

what should be expecting when i first use it?

in other news, my bank account took a nice hit, ordered a macbook pro, keyboard and electric toothbrush this past week...


Try to avoid having any expectations. That way, it should maximize your experience!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


I made the following observation:

When playing/moving around I do indeed bring the full key up but I am not sure if it is because of my dodgey keyboard because it seems harder to hold the key in its place. But I can see that as being indeed useful in some situations.


If it's a habit, then you would have to learn how to avoid letting the key come all the way backup before pressing it again (or before pressing the next one).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


I am not sure how much of a step-up to rubber dome > mx black would be in terms of typing if you are having to hit 'harder' on the keys as it requires more force I don't see why I should bother with that. Gaming I can understand in terms of less likely to hit the wrong key and pressing more key combinations but I don't see Â£100 as a worthy upgrade of a dome keyboard as you have to press these keys flat out anyway and there are not in my case that many situations that demands more keys to be hit on the keyboard...besides I am customed to this and can avoid doing this.


On one hand, it sounds like you're thinking that all mechanical keyboards have better key rollover (or perhaps full NKRO) which isn't true. Some do and some don't.

Regarding the typing experience: from what I've heard, even the Cherry MX Blacks provide a superior typing experience over rubber domes. It's just that when comparing mechanical keyswitches, the Blacks are probably the "worst" for typing, but are still generally better than rubber domes.

But it's true that the stiffer nature of the Blacks helps make it harder to get accidental keypresses and therefore is one of the reasons why it's just about the perfect gaming switch. The other reason is because they're perfect for double-tapping because not only are they linear, but the reset point and actuation point are at the same point in the key travel.

Plus, the build quality of a good mechanical keyboard is so superior to a rubber dome keyboard that it's almost silly to _not_ consider a mechanical board.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


Perhaps this keyboard is not right for me as it seems that perhaps that I am uncompetitive although I do like to 'do good' lol.


Well yeah, boards with the Cherry MX Blacks aren't really a good choice for people who do a good mix of typing and gaming. They're really best for people who do nothing but gaming. However, everyone is different and there are some people who prefer the Blacks for typing over the Browns, Blues, Buckling Springs, etc.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


The brown switches on the other hand are more appealing because of typing, a more enjoyable experience due to less force required?


Indeed. Other than the Cherry MX Reds, its spring is the easiest to compress.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


It can cater for my gaming needs allowing me to press extra keys anyway incase I need to.


Well now you're talking about key rollover. If you want to have unlimited key rollover (full N-Key Rollover), then get a keyboard that features NKRO. Otherwise, it'll be limited to the USB spec which is 6 keys plus 4 modifiers (like Shift, Ctrl, etc.).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


But then again, I am used to the dome keys and if they are kind of like rubber dome as in letting the key 'reset' as in return to its normal idle state then I don't think I'll have a problem gaming on it and have a good typing experience.


The Cherry MX series actuates approximately halfway down through the keystroke, and then it resets roughly halfway back up (but these points are not the same for each switch). Refer to Post #2 of this thread for more information regarding where each switch actuates and resets.

To maintain a good typing experience and still have a good gaming experience, the Cherry MX Browns are probably the best choice because the reset point is lower than the actuation point which means double-tapping does not require the key switch to be fully released in order to become reset. The Blues don't either, but it would require extremely extensive and careful practice - which would require more patience and time than I think _anyone_ has.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


All these things are whizzing around in my head preventing me from getting one.

After looking at this can someone please tell me if I have lost the plot, lol.


I think we are just nit-picking too much. Study the different switch types, and then pick a keyboard that has the switch type you think you would like the most. I think it really is just as simple as that.


----------



## Marin

There's a salvation army next to my apartment. Think I'm going to hit it up later and try to hunt down some keyboards.


----------



## Wiremaster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


AutoHotKey - This is just a script program thing that I don't know how to describe. It's not just for making keyboard macros or whatever - it's for almost anything you can think of (at least as far as I know - but I don't know much about it, except that it's extremely powerful).


It really can to anything.

I made a thread.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wiremaster*


It really can to anything.

I made a thread.


Well yeah, but that tutorial is pretty easy to find. I mean, it's right at the top of their home page.


----------



## lmnop




----------



## Wiremaster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Well yeah, but that tutorial is pretty easy to find. I mean, it's right at the top of their home page.









True. I'm just advocating it's power and versatility.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Wiremaster*


True. I'm just advocating it's power and versatility.


Oh. But I went to your thread expecting to see a bunch of different ways it can be used. You know, like a really detailed tutorial based on your experience with the purpose of showing many of the different things it can do.

Were you just trying to get up to 35 Rep?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
There's a salvation army next to my apartment. Think I'm going to hit it up later and try to hunt down some keyboards.

I went to a thrift store near me and the only thing that piqued my interest was this:








:|


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Looks like the stuff they use at the post office.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 









Why did they cancel this








Mechanical keyboard + nipple must be so much win

Are there any keyboards like that, but without the nipple? It would be so awesome to have a keyboard without a frame - if that's what you'd call them







I'd kill for a 84-key, full NKRO, frameless keyboard - either with blues or browns


----------



## lmnop

<puts down how to speak Klingon in 21 days> nope.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
<puts down how to speak Klingon in 21 days> nope.

Anything close to, then? The Decks are probably the closest thing, but I don't need the LEDs.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
If Thinkpads vanished off the face of the earth, I'd probably buy a Macbook Pro. They're a lot better than people give them credit for.

Except for their _stupid_ keyboard - almost the worst notebook keyboards I've ever used, second only to Asus (which have tremendous amounts of flex). 1) The keytops are flat, 2) the keys are oversized, 3) the keys are overspaced.

My next choice after thinkpads would be Dell. Not their consumer line, which sucks, but their business line, which at least still have trackpoints on some of their models. If I'm not going to have a decent keyboard on a laptop, I'll at least make sure it comes with a nipple.


----------



## lmnop

your choices are HHKB, Deck 82, Siig Minitouch, DSI Modular Mac.

there was this one someone at geekhack found a couple months ago.


























I can't remember the name of it but it's expensive.


----------



## W4LNUT5

That horrible layout makes me want to punch a baby it's so awful


----------



## gonX

I know I'm gonna sound incredibly needy, but HHKB is too expensive, so is the Deck - the Siig Minitouch would have been exactly what I needed if it wasn't for the fact that it had a stupid FN key on the outer edge of the keyboard - if it at least was there in place of the Windows key I could have lived with it, but I need the CTRL key to be on the outer edge of the keyboard, as I use the edge of my hand to click it in games.
The DSI Modular Mac has too wide a frame. I want it as small as possible. The old Dell QuietKey keyboard had this super small frame - it's the best keyboard layout I've ever used, but unfortunately it's a rubber dome - and a horrible one at that.

Looks like I'll put a Deck on my wishlist if there's no other alternative. My iOne Scorpius M10 isn't that bad, but I kinda want a smaller keyboard.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
I know I'm gonna sound incredibly needy, but HHKB is too expensive, so is the Deck - the Siig Minitouch would have been exactly what I needed if it wasn't for the fact that it had a stupid FN key on the outer edge of the keyboard - if it at least was there in place of the Windows key I could have lived with it, but I need the CTRL key to be on the outer edge of the keyboard, as I use the edge of my hand to click it in games.
The DSI Modular Mac has too wide a frame. I want it as small as possible. The old Dell QuietKey keyboard had this super small frame - it's the best keyboard layout I've ever used, but unfortunately it's a rubber dome - and a horrible one at that.

Looks like I'll put a Deck on my wishlist if there's no other alternative. My iOne Scorpius M10 isn't that bad, but I kinda want a smaller keyboard.

Forgive me for asking, but did you already consider the Majestouch Tenkeyless?


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Forgive me for asking, but did you already consider the Majestouch Tenkeyless?










FAIL

No I didn't









Looks like my next keyboard:
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...id=fkbn87mnpek

Non-full size would have been more interesting though. If I start swimming in money I might get http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...&pid=rf_se0500 or a Deck.

*EDIT*

I need some advice though... I'm currently using the Blues and I find myself bottoming out the switches fairly often when typing at high speeds. Would browns be a better idea or a completely worse idea? I'm just looking to try out some new stuff, but if they are lighter then I don't know if I want browns.


----------



## lmnop

I don't think Cherry MX Brown are going to improve your technique in not bottoming out because the tactile point is more subtle compared to Cherry MX Blue.

elitekeyboards is going to be selling Double Shot Keycaps soon.


----------



## Marin

Yay. I'm so getting them.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


FAIL

No I didn't









Looks like my next keyboard:
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...id=fkbn87mnpek

Non-full size would have been more interesting though. If I start swimming in money I might get http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...&pid=rf_se0500 or a Deck.

*EDIT*

I need some advice though... I'm currently using the Blues and I find myself bottoming out the switches fairly often when typing at high speeds. Would browns be a better idea or a completely worse idea? I'm just looking to try out some new stuff, but if they are lighter then I don't know if I want browns.


you may be interested in the Ducky 1087.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


FAIL

No I didn't









Looks like my next keyboard:
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...id=fkbn87mnpek

Non-full size would have been more interesting though. If I start swimming in money I might get http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...&pid=rf_se0500 or a Deck.


Oh snap. Yeah, the Majestouch was the first one I thought of due to that thin border around the keys (or whatever it's called). Plus, it's a nice board!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


*EDIT*

I need some advice though... I'm currently using the Blues and I find myself bottoming out the switches fairly often when typing at high speeds. Would browns be a better idea or a completely worse idea? I'm just looking to try out some new stuff, but if they are lighter then I don't know if I want browns.


When you type, try hovering your wrists. As an experiment, hover them really, really high. Hover them so high that you're almost not able to reach the keys. And then after that, try different heights. This will allow you to type at blazing fast speeds with a gentle touch, thereby revealing why it's called _Touch_ Typing.







Plus, you'll be able to become more relaxed too.

Oh, and be sure to always keep your palms facing downwards. It's like playing a piano.


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


you may be interested in the Ducky 1087.


Ugh, another hard-to-get keyboard I'm super interested in. I also looked at Cherry MX Reds. They looked like the kind of keys I wanted, but they seemed kinda difficult to get here in Denmark.

The 82-key Deck isn't that expensive after all... I was pretty sure I remembered it being $180, but it's only $120. It'll probably be $200 after import tax, shipping and all that jazz









Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Oh snap. Yeah, the Majestouch was the first one I thought of due to that thin border around the keys (or whatever it's called). Plus, it's a nice board!

When you type, try hovering your wrists. As an experiment, hover them really, really high. Hover them so high that you're almost not able to reach the keys. And then after that, try different heights. This will allow you to type at blazing fast speeds with a gentle touch, thereby revealing why it's called _Touch_ Typing.







Plus, you'll be able to become more relaxed too.

Oh, and be sure to always keep your palms facing downwards. It's like playing a piano.


You know, I'm normally rather relaxed in front of my computer. It's not like I'm bottoming out the keys really hard - I just sometimes tend to bottom out, for no apparent reason (I guess I kinda like the feel of it).

And I'm pretty sure it's called touch typing because it's based on not looking on the keyboard, and therefore you're typing the keyboard, knowing where the keys are by touch









*EDIT*

I only bottom out at very high speeds. Not when I'm sitting in the ~70 WPM bracket. It just feels kinda stressful for my wrists to try to not bottom out rather than letting them do their thing.


----------



## lmnop

Ducky and Filco are both manufactured by Costar. Ducky are sold in Asia for less than Filco and have some interesting features depending on the model.

KBC did show a Ducky SFF a couple months ago but the thread went cold.










maybe it turned into the Ducky 1087 or maybe they still plan to release it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


Ugh, another hard-to-get keyboard I'm super interested in. I also looked at Cherry MX Reds. They looked like the kind of keys I wanted, but they seemed kinda difficult to get here in Denmark.

The 82-key Deck isn't that expensive after all... I was pretty sure I remembered it being $180, but it's only $120. It'll probably be $200 after import tax, shipping and all that jazz









You know, I'm normally rather relaxed in front of my computer. It's not like I'm bottoming out the keys really hard - I just sometimes tend to bottom out, for no apparent reason (I guess I kinda like the feel of it).

And I'm pretty sure it's called touch typing because it's based on not looking on the keyboard, and therefore you're typing the keyboard, knowing where the keys are by touch









*EDIT*

I only bottom out at very high speeds. Not when I'm sitting in the ~70 WPM bracket. It just feels kinda stressful for my wrists to try to not bottom out rather than letting them do their thing.


I thought it was called Touch Typing because the typing technique is gentle, and so each key is almost touched instead of pressed (because most people tend to _hit_ their keys).

So how about hovering your wrists while typing, especially at faster speeds? I know how fast you are, and so this should help to remove the stress and allow you to feel even more relaxed. It allows for a very gentle touch even at high speeds.


----------



## Wiremaster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Oh. But I went to your thread expecting to see a bunch of different ways it can be used. You know, like a really detailed tutorial based on your experience with the purpose of showing many of the different things it can do.

Were you just trying to get up to 35 Rep?










No, I just wanted to give an example.









I could do a detailed tutorial... but as you said, there's one on the autohotkey site. I just wanted people to know. Besides, it doesn't take you two years to get 39 rep by farming for it.


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I thought it was called Touch Typing because the typing technique is gentle, and so each key is almost touched instead of pressed (because most people tend to _hit_ their keys).

So how about hovering your wrists while typing, especially at faster speeds? I know how fast you are, and so this should help to remove the stress and allow you to feel even more relaxed. It allows for a very gentle touch even at high speeds.


I can't do it. I don't feel relaxed while doing it.


----------



## lmnop

imsto is trying to find a retailer in North America to resell Ducky Keyboards but no luck


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


I can't do it. I don't feel relaxed while doing it.


Have you experimented with various heights, including the highest possible height? Also, are you allowing your wrists to come up as though they're being pulled up by invisible strings? I mean, it's only possible to relax when everything is limp - even while typing at high speeds. It can be done - I'm doing it right now.









I spent over 15 years touch typing with my wrists planted on a wrist rest (or a desk when there wasn't a wrist rest available - such as at school), and so I know that if I can change over to this "proper" technique, then anyone can. I knew better, but I never tried hovering my wrists because I was scared that I would get fatigued, tense, and also that I'd feel feminine. But I was totally wrong.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I thought it was called Touch Typing because the typing technique is gentle, and so each key is almost touched instead of pressed (because most people tend to _hit_ their keys).

So how about hovering your wrists while typing, especially at faster speeds? I know how fast you are, and so this should help to remove the stress and allow you to feel even more relaxed. It allows for a very gentle touch even at high speeds.


Wiki claims GonX is right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_typing

That said, I agree with your typing technique with the wrists high, although I kind of fail at at the moment since my keyboard is a bit too high for me to really raise my wrists much without it just being really really awkard. That said I don't actually sit my wrists on anything while typing. About the only time I used the wristrest currently is when I am playing games that don't require constant key presses.


----------



## W4LNUT5

I was on the gonX definition of touch typing myself.

Apparently so is Wikipedia








http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_typing

Edit: Kami beat me by milliseconds. lol


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


Wiki claims GonX is right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_typing

That said, I agree with your typing technique with the wrists high, although I kind of fail at at the moment since my keyboard is a bit too high for me to really raise my wrists much without it just being really really awkard. That said I don't actually sit my wrists on anything while typing. About the only time I used the wristrest currently is when I am playing games that don't require constant key presses.


Well, it's not *my* technique.







Instead, it's the standard proper way to touch type that I fought against for over 15 years until I got the Tactile Click back on March 9th (I basically stumbled upon this wrist hovering thing while trying very hard to become really good at not bottoming out).

The reason why it's the _proper_ technique is because of the mechanics of our hands and wrists. I mean, all of us have hands and wrists that basically work the same way.


----------



## gonX

My right hand always hovers slightly above the desk, because it's the hand that moves the most. My left hand barely moves. I should record it once I get the camera application on my phone fixed. I'm having some problems with it ATM, since it locks up after a few seconds of recording


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


My right hand always hovers slightly above the desk, because it's the hand that moves the most. My left hand barely moves. I should record it once I get the camera application on my phone fixed. I'm having some problems with it ATM, since it locks up after a few seconds of recording










I bet your speed would improve even further if you hovered them (after experimenting with different heights, but the same height for both hands) along with making sure both palms are facing down. The reason why I am mentioning keeping the palms down is because my left hand has a bad habit of facing its palm to the right a little bit, and it hurts my accuracy.


----------



## gonX

It feels weird to me. I don't use my left hands thumb for anything but the space bar, so hovering my left hand requires me to use my left hand thumb for more than just that.
So, for now, it's a question about breaking the habit. I'm happy with my typing at the moment, so it's not exactly something I have of high priority.


----------



## TwoCables

K, well whatever turns your crank.


----------



## lmnop

the Avant Stellar sold for $108. congratulations to whoever bought it.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the Avant Stellar sold for $108. congratulations to whoever bought it.


It doesn't look all that impressive to me aside from the programmable keys. (Pad printing for one)


----------



## lmnop

I think this is the only mechanical keyboard with Alps that can support NKRO since the Filco Zero is discontinued. it retails for $199. it's a tank it weighs almost 5lbs and has the functionality of one you can change the layout from dvorak to colemak, create macros and change the debounce time (repeat rate) without the use of any drivers. I was surprised there was no interest given it was black and had a windows key unlike the Northgate Omnikey Ultra. you can tell it hasn't been used much because the pad printing is still on lol


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I think this is the only mechanical keyboard with Alps that can support NKRO since the Filco Zero is discontinued. it retails for $199. it's a tank it weighs almost 5lbs and has the functionality of one you can change the layout from dvorak to colemak, create macros and change the debounce time (repeat rate) without the use of any drivers. I was surprised there was no interest given it was black and had a windows key unlike the Northgate Omnikey Ultra. you can tell it hasn't been used much because the pad printing is still on lol


Space bar was a bit shiny, but otherwise good looking shape. Never heard anything about that board until now.


----------



## lmnop

could be the flash.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


could be the flash.


Nah, you can even see it on the right hand side of the 4th picture down, as well as the first.


----------



## lmnop

it can't be that old I think CVT used Cherry MX switches in the Avant Stellar until recently.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


it can't be that old I think CVT used Cherry MX switches in the Avant Stellar until recently.


I know it's not that old because just the spacebar is shiny, and nothing else. It still has a bit more use into it than I'd prefer if I was buying.


----------



## lmnop

all spacebars go shiny eventually.


----------



## insaneXIII

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wontonforevuh* 
WOOOOOOOOOOOOO
just ordered a Das Pro Model S with student discount so it comes out to be $98

what should be expecting when i first use it?

in other news, my bank account took a nice hit, ordered a macbook pro, keyboard and electric toothbrush this past week...

I got the Ultimate version recently and it's awesome, it made me realize how bad my touch typing is. Just be ready for the finger print magnet of a bezel and the clickyness of the clicky clicks







.

On the topic of technique, do any of you bottom out certain keys? I find myself pressing the larger keys harder; ones like space, enter, backspace, and tab. I could understand bottoming out the spacebar with my thumb, but I mash down backspace with my pinky when I use it. Wierd







.

As for gaming on blues, I don't find them annoying at all. I can (after a bit of warm up) find the sweet spot where the switch resets, and spam it all I want. I can see how a linear switch would be more convenient, as you don't have a "floating" actuation point, but this works for me so I'll stick with it until the urge to buy another keyboard overcomes me.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Except for their _stupid_ keyboard - almost the worst notebook keyboards I've ever used, second only to Asus (which have tremendous amounts of flex). 1) The keytops are flat, 2) the keys are oversized, 3) the keys are overspaced.

My next choice after thinkpads would be Dell. Not their consumer line, which sucks, but their business line, which at least still have trackpoints on some of their models. If I'm not going to have a decent keyboard on a laptop, I'll at least make sure it comes with a nipple.









I mean for the other features. They have a lot of nice little touches, and the OS is very good. I think the lack of trackpoint would annoy me before the keyboard. Also, I found that the football pitch-sized touchpad got in the way when I was trying to type.

I find the Apple Aluminium desktop keyboards to be pleasant to type on, although I have noticed that the Macbook Pro's ones aren't quite as sharp. The ones on the standard Macbook feel terrible, but it is possible that this was because I tried it in a store, compared with the Pros which some of my friends have. Then again, the desktop ones I have tried were well used college computer ones.


----------



## coffeejunky

Does anyone here have a UK 3Â£ key and a ~# key for a cherry switch keyboard they don't need? (I'm guessing I'll get more joy at GH for this though).

Found another handy program for remapping keys, it's the Microsoft Keyboard Layout creator -
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...DisplayLang=en
Found it far better than the keyboard remap programs because you can alter the characters given when you press shift (or CTRL shift, and even more). Make sure you install it to C:/ not program files as it will throw an error due to short filename system.

I now have a hybrid US/UK keyboard layout (named US-International-coffeejunky) all ready for when my I-Rocks gets here (on another note it allowed me to move the /? key somewhere more sensible \\o/).


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
I mean for the other features. They have a lot of nice little touches, and the OS is very good. I think the lack of trackpoint would annoy me before the keyboard. Also, I found that the football pitch-sized touchpad got in the way when I was trying to type.

I find the Apple Aluminium desktop keyboards to be pleasant to type on, although I have noticed that the Macbook Pro's ones aren't quite as sharp. The ones on the standard Macbook feel terrible, but it is possible that this was because I tried it in a store, compared with the Pros which some of my friends have. Then again, the desktop ones I have tried were well used college computer ones.

Well, their build quality is second only to Lenovo, I'll give you that. And a giant touchpad is still nicer to use than a tiny touchpad. But Dell still has trackpoints lol


----------



## Izvire

Where can I find Filcos with a FIN/SWE -layout?
Found one already: http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=753
Are there more?
Would like the tenkeyless version, pref. with MX blacks. Thanks


----------



## coffeejunky

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Izvire* 
Where can I find Filcos with a FIN/SWE -layout?
Found one already: http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=753
Are there more?
Would like the tenkeyless version, pref. with MX blacks. Thanks









If you want the tenkeyless theres no way AFAIK. If you email the guys at keyboardco they should be able to sell you a SWE keyset for Â£25 (at least they offered to do that for me with a UK layout).
Hope this helps


----------



## Izvire

Quote:


Originally Posted by *coffeejunky* 
If you want the tenkeyless theres no way AFAIK. If you email the guys at keyboardco they should be able to sell you a SWE keyset for Â£25 (at least they offered to do that for me with a UK layout).
Hope this helps









Alright, helped a bit.








Found the MX Black version already with the correct layout though: http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=763

Sent a email to support @ elitekeyboards, asking about the layout, waiting for the answer. I'll post here when I get a response.


----------



## mark45

Thanks everyone and especially TwoCables for patiently answering all my questions!

After doing some more research I am now thinking of getting Filco blues now...but I was really put off by the noise they make by the following video:












03:00 when he starts typing

I am aware that this may not be the best microphone for example...can someone please make a comment about the noise on these keyboards, is it accurate sound that your one makes?

However, I did like the sound of the blues keyboard on the following video:

http://www.viddler.com/explore/HotHardware/videos/69/

at 01:10 and 02:00 (2 different types)

edit: can someone also check/define the terms for me please:

Release position/reset point - when the key stops registering
Accutating point/operating position - when the key is registered
Tactile feel/position - feel a slight bump just before the key registers

~Thanks~

PS LOLZ my bad i accidenty posted this on another thread whilst reading about it (sorry I thought I was posting in this one)


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
But Dell still has trackpoints lol









I used a Trackpoint on someone's Latitude E-series from 2008, I think I ended up using the touchpad instead... the trackpoint just wasn't right.

Perhaps if it was my laptop, I'd be able to play around with it and get it working to my liking. Nonetheless, not all Trackpoints are created equal.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Sounds like he's in a big empty room, it sounds so loud due to the echoing quality.


----------



## ripster

Sound samples at Geekhack are much better than these echo ridden, cheap camcorder mike, YouTube crap.

I like the part where he presses the key then 10 seconds later the sound appears.


----------



## Izvire

What switches would you guys suggest to me?

I currently have the MX Blacks, and really like the overall feel, however pressing the keys could be a bit lighter for typing. For gaming, MX Blacks are great. Don't really know how the other switches feel tbh.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Izvire* 
What switches would you guys suggest to me?

I currently have the MX Blacks, and really like the overall feel, however pressing the keys could be a bit lighter for typing. For gaming, MX Blacks are great. Don't really know how the other switches feel tbh.

There's cherry MX-Red's, linear like Blacks, but 45 Grams of Force unlike Blacks 60 Grams.

I personally had some MX-Red's, and it pretty much boiled down to this:

Quote:

Cherry Reds:
Gaming not quiet as good as the blacks, but they still work well. Typing is better, but if I really get into gaming, I can bottom out the keyswhen I start using multi-key combos
I always felt myself slamming the keys down pretty easy. Which wasn't terrible for some games, both others I was a bit to quick or late on.

They would be worth a shot. Though boards with MX-Red's are rather hard to find. I had a G80-3600 from Cherry which worked well for me for the most part.

My big "issue" game was Step Mania; as that's when I couldn't get my timing down.

Geekhack has a review of that board. So you may wish to check it out. I see them on Ebay every so often. I've considered getting a new one, as I really liked it after awhile.


----------



## Izvire

Maybe I'll just order that MX Black normal version with red wasd keys.
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=763 + http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=748

Already has the right layout.
Should be good.


----------



## coffeejunky

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Izvire* 
Maybe I'll just order that MX Black normal version with red wasd keys.
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=763 + http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=748

Already has the right layout.
Should be good.

They have the swedish version in stock in browns too (blues are out of stock but they should be able to let you know when more are expected if you email them), which should be better for typing unless you like a firm key and still good for gaming.


----------



## Izvire

Quote:


Originally Posted by *coffeejunky* 
They have the swedish version in stock in browns too (blues are out of stock but they should be able to let you know when more are expected if you email them), which should be better for typing unless you like a firm key and still good for gaming.

Nah, I'll just stick with these blacks, they're pretty good for me


----------



## ch_123

Browns would be a good progression. Lower force, and a bit of tactility to aid typing.


----------



## Izvire

Could be. Still, mostly I'm worried about is ordering some expensive keyboard and not liking it :I

So, I will stick to the switch that I already know and like.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mark45* 
Thanks everyone and especially TwoCables for patiently answering all my questions!

After doing some more research I am now thinking of getting Filco blues now...but I was really put off by the noise they make by the following video:






03:00 when he starts typing

I am aware that this may not be the best microphone for example...can someone please make a comment about the noise on these keyboards, is it accurate sound that your one makes?

However, I did like the sound of the blues keyboard on the following video:

http://www.viddler.com/explore/HotHardware/videos/69/

at 01:10 and 02:00 (2 different types)

edit: can someone also check/define the terms for me please:

Release position/reset point - when the key stops registering
Accutating point/operating position - when the key is registered
Tactile feel/position - feel a slight bump just before the key registers

~Thanks~

PS LOLZ my bad i accidenty posted this on another thread whilst reading about it (sorry I thought I was posting in this one)

Here's a video I made awhile back with black switches on the deck and blues on the Das:

Code:



Code:


[URL=http://eps-clan.com/videos/deckvsdas.wmv]http://eps-clan.com/videos/deckvsdas.wmv[/URL]

I think the reset point is more when the key will allow you to press it again. If you go above the actuation point, it should stop registering a key press.


----------



## runeazn

hmm i can get a das utlimate for 10 euro cheaper as the brown but i like silentness :/


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mark45* 
Thanks everyone and especially TwoCables for patiently answering all my questions!

Aw, you embarrass me.







You're absolutely welcome!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mark45* 
After doing some more research I am now thinking of getting Filco blues now...but I was really put off by the noise they make by the following video:






03:00 when he starts typing

I am aware that this may not be the best microphone for example...can someone please make a comment about the noise on these keyboards, is it accurate sound that your one makes?

If you could change the sound, then what would you change about it? Also, does your room have that much reverb, or is it deader sounding? If you take away all of that reverb, then it's very accurate. But either way, this keyboard sounds much better in person (it even sounds just a tiny bit less clicky).







Plus, many of his keystrokes are bottomed out. Not only that, but it is just a loud room. So, watch more videos!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mark45* 
However, I did like the sound of the blues keyboard on the following video:

http://www.viddler.com/explore/HotHardware/videos/69/

at 01:10 and 02:00 (2 different types)

That's a better representation due to the deader room (no reverb). Between the M10 and Model S, I would say that the Model S is much closer to the sound of the Majestouch Tactile Click, although it is slightly higher pitched than the Tactile Click - but just slightly.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mark45* 
edit: can someone also check/define the terms for me please:

Release position/reset point - when the key stops registering
Accutating point/operating position - when the key is registered
Tactile feel/position - feel a slight bump just before the key registers

~Thanks~

PS LOLZ my bad i accidenty posted this on another thread whilst reading about it (sorry I thought I was posting in this one)

The terms are right!







I see you've been doing a bunch of research. But keep watching videos because it'll deepen your understanding of what the keyboards sound like.


----------



## mark45

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Sound samples at Geekhack are much better than these echo ridden, cheap camcorder mike, YouTube crap.

I like the part where he presses the key then 10 seconds later the sound appears.

Wow thanks LOL I will never look at youtube in the same way again







I think I have fallen in love with the blues. It's like music to my ears.
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6317 (bottom one)

Oh okay thanks Crazy9000, liked the 2nd keyboard on that vid better than the ffirst I think.

Now the brown ones sound AWEFUL:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:4495

perhaps he is heavy handed? It does sound rushed I guess.

But I think it is now decided. If the blues are at least 'above average' but better than a rubber dome keyboard anyway, then I will get the Filco Blues.
I just hope that I won't keep everyone up late up night...would be hard to relocate my system to another room, lol!

Thanks everyone!

edit:

If I'm thinking [reverb] means delayed sound/slight echo then no it doesn't because I am in a small room so hopefully it would sound like the noise on the geekhack link









Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
The terms are right!







I see you've been doing a bunch of research. But keep watching videos because it'll deepen your understanding of what the keyboards sound like.

yay lol yes







ok thanks I will deffo listen to more vids/aud samples: trying to make a good choice and hopefully not regret it...although I have a funny feeling that eventually I will get the browns and blacks at one point in the distant future anyway lol


----------



## Maytan

It's just so freaking nice to have a keyboard that isn't squeaking; even my domer's space bar was squeaking for the month I used it.

Yeeeeeeeee!


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mark45* 
Wow thanks LOL I will never look at youtube in the same way again







I think I have fallen in love with the blues. It's like music to my ears.
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6317 (bottom one)

Oh okay thanks Crazy9000, liked the 2nd keyboard on that vid better than the ffirst I think.

Now the brown ones sound AWEFUL:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:4495

perhaps he is heavy handed? It does sound rushed I guess.

But I think it is now decided. If the blues are at least 'above average' but better than a rubber dome keyboard anyway, then I will get the Filco Blues.
I just hope that I won't keep everyone up late up night...would be hard to relocate my system to another room, lol!

Thanks everyone!

edit:

If I'm thinking [reverb] means delayed sound/slight echo then no it doesn't because I am in a small room so hopefully it would sound like the noise on the geekhack link









yes







ok thanks I will deffo listen to more vids/aud samples: trying to make a good choice and hopefully not regret it...although I have a funny feeling that eventually I will get the browns and blacks at one point in the distant future anyway lol









Yeah that Brown recording sounds like he is just mashing keys, not doing any kind of realistic typing, although could be a good "gaming sounds" benchmark.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Sound samples at Geekhack are much better than these echo ridden, cheap camcorder mike, YouTube crap.

I like the part where he presses the key then 10 seconds later the sound appears.


The audio and video was perfectly synchronized for me. I guess it might've just been a fluke for you.







I've seen that video dozens of times, and I've never had any audio/video sync issues with it (it was one of my favorite videos when I was trying to decide on my first and only mechanical keyboard).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


Wow thanks LOL I will never look at youtube in the same way again










The best thing to do is to just listen to the audio very carefully while pretending that you are there in person. The result is that it's usually pretty obvious what quality recording you're dealing with. Like in both that unboxing video as well as that HotHardware video, the audio quality is decent thanks to a relatively decent HD camcorder. Of course, it would be better with decent condenser microphones, mic preamps, etc.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


think I have fallen in love with the blues. It's like music to my ears.
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6317 (bottom one)


That's a decent one. It's actually easy to tell which keystrokes are bottomed out and which ones aren't!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


Oh okay thanks Crazy9000, liked the 2nd keyboard on that vid better than the ffirst I think.

Now the brown ones sound AWEFUL:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:4495

perhaps he is heavy handed? It does sound rushed I guess.


He has a light touch, but yet every keystroke was bottomed out. Plus, the mids on this audio clip are a bit high (it sounds a tad bit on the nasally side). It's not the best representation of the sound that the Tactile Touch makes. So, watch more videos.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


But I think it is now decided. If the blues are at least 'above average' but better than a rubber dome keyboard anyway, then I will get the Filco Blues.


Due to how careful you're being, I can almost guarantee you that you're going to feel that your mechanical keyboard (whichever one you get) is _significantly_ superior to whatever you have now. I upgraded from both the Razer Lycosa and the Logitech G15, and the difference between those keyboards and the Tactile Click is night and day.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


I just hope that I won't keep everyone up late up night...would be hard to relocate my system to another room, lol!


The clicks of the Cherry MX Blues are quieter than the sound of bottoming out.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


Thanks everyone!

edit:

If I'm thinking [reverb] means delayed sound/slight echo then no it doesn't because I am in a small room so hopefully it would sound like the noise on the geekhack link










Reverb and echo are actually two different things. Echo is a repetition of sound while reverb is just _sustained_ sound. A perfect example of reverb is the kind of sound you get in a gymnasium: the sound doesn't repeat, but instead every sound is just sustained and gradually fades away. But if that gymnasium had thick carpet on the floor, walls and ceiling, then the there would be almost no reverb at all. So there's typically absolutely no reverb in a bedroom due to all of the sound-absorbing materials like carpet and the bed combined with the small size of the room.

Anyway, I'm very confident that you'll absolutely love the sound. I'm also confident that it won't be too loud at all.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


yay lol yes







ok thanks I will deffo listen to more vids/aud samples: trying to make a good choice and hopefully not regret it...although I have a funny feeling that eventually I will get the browns and blacks at one point in the distant future anyway lol










Yeah, if I had the money as well as the physical space, then I'd probably have at least a dozen different mechanical keyboards by now - and I've only been into mechanical keyboards since late February of this year.


----------



## nonamed

Anyone know where I can get DAS keyboards in Europe / UK ??? I only found getDigital.de , any other retailers ? Do you know ?


----------



## Maytan

Typing up ebay descriptions is a lot of work. As is taking pictures of all the items. (Especially when you're selling a ****ton of 80-something NES games complete with boxes and accessories)

There's actually a huge market for old Nintendo stuff, it's fairly incredible. I saw this NIB World Class Track Meet (or something like that) sell for 40 grand. There's only two NIB copies in existence, and barely any copies to begin with.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Typing up ebay descriptions is a lot of work. As is taking pictures of all the items. (Especially when you're selling a ****ton of 80-something NES games complete with boxes and accessories)

There's actually a huge market for old Nintendo stuff, it's fairly incredible. I saw this NIB World Class Track Meet (or something like that) sell for 40 grand. There's only two NIB copies in existence, and barely any copies to begin with.


Random....

But yeah, it is horribly time consuming.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


Random....

But yeah, it is horribly time consuming.


Yeaaaaaaaaah, somewhere in there I meant to say it's a lot more comfortable doing it on my current board as opposed to my old one. (the domer that I used to use to type up the descriptions on the stuff I sold to put my 'new' rig together.)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Yeaaaaaaaaah, somewhere in there I meant to say it's a lot more comfortable doing it on my current board as opposed to my old one. (the domer that I used to use to type up the descriptions on the stuff I sold to put my 'new' rig together.)


In a sense, you kinda did. I mean, for those of us who know that you have a Das Model S, it should sound like you're saying _"but it's a pleasure to do that with my Model S"_, or something to that effect.







Or, _"It used to be a lot of work, but not anymore!"_


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


Now the brown ones sound AWEFUL:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:4495


I use a Das Model S with Cherry MX Browns and they do not make that much noise. I'm pretty sure most of the sound is coming from him bottoming out on his keyboard. I've tried both the Browns and Blues, and bottoming out aside, the Blues definitely make more sound.


----------



## ripster

Actually the best single source of keyboard sound recordings on the whole Intertoobs are the ones I did since it's all using the same equipment, same typing sequences, same volume settings, and same setup for the mike placement.  Link.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonamed* 
Anyone know where I can get DAS keyboards in Europe / UK ??? I only found getDigital.de , any other retailers ? Do you know ?

I searched for a while but didn't find anything. There's basically only getdigital.de, keyboardco.com (Cherrys and Filcos) and another German website I can't remember that actually sells some Decks (expensive) among other things.
The US Das keyboard website ships to Europe I think. Ebay usually doesn't have much.


----------



## frickfrock999

You guys want to talk about noise, you should listen to one of these bad boys.



IBM Selectric II
It sounds like a machine gun when you're typing.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
In a sense, you kinda did. I mean, for those of us who know that you have a Das Model S, it should sound like you're saying _"but it's a pleasure to do that with my Model S"_, or something to that effect.








Or, _"It used to be a lot of work, but not anymore!"_

I'm glad someone can read my mind!







Sure makes things a lot easier to explain.


----------



## ripster

Also recorded using the same setup.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Typing up ebay descriptions is a lot of work. As is taking pictures of all the items. (Especially when you're selling a ****ton of 80-something NES games complete with boxes and accessories)

There's actually a huge market for old Nintendo stuff, it's fairly incredible. I saw this NIB World Class Track Meet (or something like that) sell for 40 grand. There's only two NIB copies in existence, and barely any copies to begin with.

WAIT

PM me what games you have, I might buy them all from you, along with the system


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
WAIT

PM me what games you have, I might buy them all from you, along with the system









Sure thing, lemme just type up a list.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d* 
I use a Das Model S with Cherry MX Browns and they do not make that much noise. I'm pretty sure most of the sound is coming from him bottoming out on his keyboard. I've tried both the Browns and Blues, and bottoming out aside, the Blues definitely make more sound.

the browns if you dont bottom out, they dont make noise more or less, the blues they make noise and especially if you bottom out


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Yeaaaaaaaaah, somewhere in there I meant to say it's a lot more comfortable doing it on my current board as opposed to my old one. (the domer that I used to use to type up the descriptions on the stuff I sold to put my 'new' rig together.)

I have a NIB Legend of Zelda gold cartridge. is it worth anything?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I have a NIB Legend of Zelda gold cartridge. is it worth anything?

I honestly do not know.







You can try asking/looking on Nintendo Age. (http://nintendoage.com/)

Some of the collections people have on that website make me so effin' jealous. I just don't have the space to collect this stuff.


----------



## azianai

hope im not posting in the wrong place, but anyway im looking to try out the mechanical keyboard as im losing keystrokes with many of the logitech keyboards out right now, even this illuminated keyboard i use that is scissor switch misses some keystrokes.

I've found a Cherry G81-1800 for like $30.00
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/ke...1800/index.htm
Link i found doesn't really give too much info, can't find any big reviews.
Is it a worthy buy?

Also for fun i also found a Cherry G86-71400 (LPOS) board that will cost me $50.00
Not Mechanical from what I can tell, but it'll be fun if i can program the POS buttons as macro keys.
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/ke...erty/index.htm


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I'm glad someone can read my mind!







Sure makes things a lot easier to explain.

I cheated though.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
the browns if you dont bottom out, they dont make noise more or less, the blues they make noise and especially if you bottom out

But setting the click that the Cherry MX Blue keyswitch makes, the sound of bottoming out is the same. But of course, adding the click makes it crunchier sounding.









Fortunately, the clicks that the MX Blues make are quieter than the sound of bottoming out.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *azianai* 
hope im not posting in the wrong place, but anyway im looking to try out the mechanical keyboard as im losing keystrokes with many of the logitech keyboards out right now, even this illuminated keyboard i use that is scissor switch misses some keystrokes.

I've found a Cherry G81-1800 for like $30.00
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/ke...1800/index.htm
Link i found doesn't really give too much info, can't find any big reviews.
Is it a worthy buy?

Also for fun i also found a Cherry G86-71400 (LPOS) board that will cost me $50.00
Not Mechanical from what I can tell, but it'll be fun if i can program the POS buttons as macro keys.
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/ke...erty/index.htm


The G81 uses Cherry MY switches, which are crap. The G86 is a rubber dome. The reprogrammability is nice, but I don't know if it's hardware or software.

The Cherry G80 / MX keyboards are what you need to look for. Or there's an SGI Granite on ebay for about $50 shipped, if that's still there that's what I'd pick.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Actually the best single source of keyboard sound recordings on the whole Intertoobs are the ones I did since it's all using the same equipment, same typing sequences, same volume settings, and same setup for the mike placement. Link.

This man is the only person who has ever properly caught the sound of a Model F on a recording. We salute you!


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I love that Model F spacebar sound. *KTHUNK CHUNK THUNK*


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

@Manyak: Regarding the Das Model S in the OP, the Model S has now been updated. The media keys are gone and the Fn key is replaced by the original Windows key.


----------



## Izvire

Yet another question from a nublet like me.
Planning on getting this Filco, like I said earlier: http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=763

My question is: does that keyboard have the same setup as that in the picture?
Meaning the size of enter, backspace and shift. Obviously, the other keys will be different, Ã„/Ã-/Ã&#8230; etc, but I need to know that it has that same layout otherwise. I keep seeing people here with Filcos that have the one row enter, like this:








(should probably ask this from the support of the keyboardco but w/e).


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Izvire* 
Yet another question from a nublet like me.
Planning on getting this Filco, like I said earlier: http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=763

My question is: does that keyboard have the same setup as that in the picture?
Meaning the size of enter, backspace and shift. Obviously, the other keys will be different, Ã„/Ã-/Ã&#8230; etc, but I need to know that it has that same layout otherwise. I keep seeing people here with Filcos that have the one row enter, like this:








(should probably ask this from the support of the keyboardco but w/e).

If you order the finnish layout, it should be a finnish layout. If it's not, then there will not be Ã-Ã„Ã&#8230;. If it is, there will be a short shift key, a big enter or a huge enter and Ã-Ã„Ã&#8230; at the right side. Some of the symbol buttons will also be in different places.

You should get the normal finnish layout, or one like this. You wouldn't want to pay 100+€ for a keyboard that you can't type in finnish on? If you don't order the finnish layout, you can't type finnish









That is my nordic (swedish+finnish) layout Steelseries 6Gv2


----------



## Izvire

Quote:


Originally Posted by *De-Zant* 
If you order the finnish layout, it should be a finnish layout. If it's not, then there will not be Ã-Ã„Ã&#8230;. If it is, there will be a short shift key, a big enter or a huge enter and Ã-Ã„Ã&#8230; at the right side. Some of the symbol buttons will also be in different places.

You should get the normal finnish layout, or one like this. You wouldn't want to pay 100+â‚¬ for a keyboard that you can't type in finnish on? If you don't order the finnish layout, you can't type finnish









That is my nordic (swedish+finnish) layout Steelseries 6Gv2

And this is my current Steelseries 7G: (small pic, I know)








Basically I want the same layout except for the big enter and small backspace.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Izvire* 
Basically I want the same layout except for the big enter and small backspace.

Order a finnish layout: Big enter

Don't order a finnish layout: Can't type in finnish

Choose one.

Also: The american layout has A LOT of the buttons like >< buttons and ? & % Â¤ $ buttons in a different place. Get a finnish layout, it will be best.


----------



## Izvire

Quote:


Originally Posted by *De-Zant* 
Order a finnish layout: Big enter

Don't order a finnish layout: Can't type in finnish

Choose one.

Also: The american layout has A LOT of the buttons like >< buttons and ? & % Â¤ $ buttons in a different place. Get a finnish layout, it will be best.

I *AM* ordering a finnish layout. That's for sure.
All I want to know is which kind of an enter does it come with?
This is how I want it:








*WITH the Finnish layout including Ã„Ã-Ã&#8230;*

If it comes with the HUGE enter like the 7G or the 6Gv2, I don't want it. If it comes with a enter like this:








I don't want it.

Get my question?
I just want to know does the finnish layout with that keyboard have a normal enter+backspace+shift. Thank you.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Izvire* 
I *AM* ordering a finnish layout. That's for sure.
All I want to know is which kind of an enter does it come with?
This is how I want it:








*WITH the Finnish layout including Ã„Ã-Ã&#8230;*

If it comes with the HUGE enter like the 7G or the 6Gv2, I don't want it. If it comes with a enter like this:








I don't want it.

Get my question?
I just want to know does the finnish layout with that keyboard have a normal enter+backspace+shift. Thank you.

It won't come with the thin one line enter. It will come with either the big or the huge enter. My best quess would be to google and try to find the filco with a finnishl ayout( I mean try to find a picture of it with...)..

But it can be either the normal or the huge one. It is unlikely to have the thin backspace but that too is a possibility. I didn't know that my 6Gv2 would have a huge enter and a displaced button (only one). It is not a huge deal for me however.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Izvire* 
I *AM* ordering a finnish layout. That's for sure.
All I want to know is which kind of an enter does it come with?
This is how I want it:








*WITH the Finnish layout including Ã„Ã-Ã&#8230;*

If it comes with the HUGE enter like the 7G or the 6Gv2, I don't want it. If it comes with a enter like this:








I don't want it.

Get my question?
I just want to know does the finnish layout with that keyboard have a normal enter+backspace+shift. Thank you.

The Finnish keyboard is going to come with the same style of Enter and backspace as that UK keyboard.


----------



## Izvire

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
The Finnish keyboard is going to come with the same style of Enter and backspace as that UK keyboard.

Thanks, thats all I wanted to know.


----------



## coffeejunky

Made myself a little keycap puller following this guide (all credit to nanu - I think he made the guide - @geekhack)










Works really well on my Cherry Stream XT scissor switch keyboard (which is a surprise as these are known to break really easy when removing keycaps...which is an issue as the smallest piece of debris will stop a key from working). Will try it out on my I-Rocks when it gets here









No need to spend a few quid when you can make one for free


----------



## Crazy9000

Anyone know a keyboard with NKRO that can be gotten in Israel?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Anyone know a keyboard with NKRO that can be gotten in Israel?


Elite Keyboards ships to Israel
http://elitekeyboards.com/support.php?lang=en#2


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Elite Keyboards ships to Israel
http://elitekeyboards.com/support.php?lang=en#2


Cool, that's nice to know. Hopefully I can find something cheaper then Filco, but I'll go with that if there doesn't seem to be much else.


----------



## ripster

For a complete list of NKRO keyboards see the Geekhack wiki.


----------



## mark45

Well I done it!!

Ordered Filco Blues (FKBN105MC/UKB)


----------



## blox

Wow!! "Kinesis Evolution Chair Mount" want


----------



## iPodder

Does anyone know if any laptop style desktop keyboards exist?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iPodder* 
Does anyone know if any laptop style desktop keyboards exist?

Lenovo Thinkpad
Logitech Illuminated
Logitech K800
Logitech DiNovo
Enermax Aurora
Enermax Caesar
Kensington Slim type

to name a couple.


----------



## lmnop

a couple more

Rosewill RK-7300
KeySonic 5600
Logitech K120
Keytronic K9.3


----------



## iPodder

Know any that are under 60 euros? ninja'd
Thx for the suggestions! +rep


----------



## lmnop

you should be able to find a couple of them where you live. you are looking for a keyboard with scissor switches.


----------



## iPodder

I've decided to go with the wired apple keyboard, as it's a scissor switch keyboard, it's very sleek looking, and has some usb ports.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iPodder* 
I've decided to go with the wired apple keyboard, as it's a scissor switch keyboard, it's very sleek looking, and has some usb ports.

You should report back on how you feel about it.

For awhile I considered going with the wireless compact apple keyboard.


----------



## Izvire

Had confirmation from Bruce @ The Keyboardco that the Filco I was looking at comes with the layout I want









He even was kind enough to take a picture for me of it.










Going to buy one for myself as a birthday present soon


----------



## ripster

Nice keys.

Lasered keys are lower contrast and scratchy.

Is it the 5:00 Free Coke Giveaway?


----------



## GeforceGTS

They're really helpfull at the keyboardco







there was a problem with my order before and they are really quick to respond..

I wish the UK layout had the huge enter key btw


----------



## iPodder

Does anyone even use that button thats to the right of the windows key? (dunno what it's called)


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iPodder* 
Does anyone even use that button thats to the right of the windows key? (dunno what it's called)

Yup. Its basically like the right click button on the mouse. Shows the menus.


----------



## Maytan

I was thinking about selling my Das Silent and getting a Unicomp or regular Das. (I sort of want more tactility) How much does a used Das generally sell for, anyone know?

EDIT: Also, which one would you guys consider a better buy?


----------



## runeazn

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/keyboards.html

at sidewinders they give 20$ off sale, the normal price of official site is 135$ and these are areound 115$,


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I was thinking about selling my Das Silent and getting a Unicomp or regular Das. (I sort of want more tactility) How much does a used Das generally sell for, anyone know?

EDIT: Also, which one would you guys consider a better buy?

I'd go for the Unicomp. Cheaper, more tactile, better built, keycaps won't wear off.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
I'd go for the Unicomp. Cheaper, more tactile, better built, keycaps won't wear off.

They won't wear off, eh? What kind of keycaps are they?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Dye sub.

Seriously, my 21 year old M has better lettering than any of my other keyboards except the Fentek/SP doubleshots. And I'm pretty sure it was a heavily used office keyboard.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Dye sub.

Seriously, my 21 year old M has better lettering than any of my other keyboards except the Fentek/SP doubleshots. And I'm pretty sure it was a heavily used office keyboard.

Hot dang, that makes me want one even more.

May I ask your opinion on your Model M? My main concern was the required actuation force; how tough is that ~65g?


----------



## ch_123

Some people start off on buckling springs, and then go to lighter switches and prefer them. But the buckling springs themselves aren't that tiring to type on. They have a nice force progression, I'm pretty sure I've heard people say that aren't as tiring to type on as Cherry Blacks despite being 5-10g heavier.

As for force - official figure is 72g, but with the Unicomps it is widely considered slightly lighter - in and around the 65g mark.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Some people start off on buckling springs, and then go to lighter switches and prefer them. But the buckling springs themselves aren't that tiring to type on. They have a nice force progression, I'm pretty sure I've heard people say that aren't as tiring to type on as Cherry Blacks despite being 5-10g heavier.

As for force - official figure is 72g, but with the Unicomps it is widely considered slightly lighter - in and around the 65g mark.

Ah, I see. I really like how light the Browns feel and all, but I'm really craving some more tactility. Noise isn't an issue anymore, like it first was when I bought this thing; so I'm not concerned about that.

I'll just have to take my chances.


----------



## ch_123

In that case the Blues may possibly be a better choice. Depends on which parameters are most important to you.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


In that case the Blues may possibly be a better choice. Depends on which parameters are most important to you.


While the feel of the keys is really important to me, the price on the Unicomps is really attractive. As is the fact that the keys are so durable.

I'll have to balance out my pros/cons of each board.

EDIT: Or, you know; I could just buy a Unicomp. I'll keep my Das, and then choose which one I like more. If I prefer the Browns for some reason, I'll try the Blues. Good enough of an idea?


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
While the feel of the keys is really important to me, the price on the Unicomps is really attractive. As is the fact that the keys are so durable.

I'll have to balance out my pros/cons of each board.

EDIT: Or, you know; I could just buy a Unicomp. I'll keep my Das, and then choose which one I like more. If I prefer the Browns for some reason, I'll try the Blues. Good enough of an idea?

If you really do sell your Das let me know. I am looking for one.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


If you really do sell your Das let me know. I am looking for one.


Sure thing!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


While the feel of the keys is really important to me, the price on the Unicomps is really attractive. As is the fact that the keys are so durable.

I'll have to balance out my pros/cons of each board.

EDIT: Or, you know; I could just buy a Unicomp. I'll keep my Das, and then choose which one I like more. If I prefer the Browns for some reason, I'll try the Blues. Good enough of an idea?


You can get a model M for $30 or less if you want to test out buckling springs.


----------



## ch_123

There's great variance in the condition (and therefore typing quality) of those old Model Ms.

That said, here is an interesting one being sold at a good price by a good seller.

Of course, if you buy a Unicomp, you can get the Spacesaver model which is as wide as a regular keyboard. Model Ms with traditional cases are veritable battlecruisers.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


You can get a model M for $30 or less if you want to test out buckling springs.


Good suggestion.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


There's great variance in the condition (and therefore typing quality) of those old Model Ms.

That said, here is an interesting one being sold at a good price by a good seller.

Of course, if you buy a Unicomp, you can get the Spacesaver model which is as wide as a regular keyboard. Model Ms with traditional cases are veritable battlecruisers.


I'm going to keep my eye on that. I'd still prefer new, to be completely honest. I don't need tank-besting quality, I baby my hardware. That said, I still prefer a nice sturdy/durable product.

I had my eye on the Customizer 104. I REALLY like the colors on that one. Not going to make a decision based on aesthetics, though.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Good suggestion.

I'm going to keep my eye on that. I'd still prefer new, to be completely honest. I don't need tank-besting quality, I baby my hardware. That said, I still prefer a nice sturdy/durable product.

I had my eye on the Customizer 104. I REALLY like the colors on that one. Not going to make a decision based on aesthetics, though.


The battlecruiser comment was in reference to how big they are...










The Unicomp keyboard there is about the same width and depth as a regular keyboard... even the IBM without the numpad is comparitively huge relative to the amount of keys it has.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Good suggestion.

I'm going to keep my eye on that. I'd still prefer new, to be completely honest. I don't need tank-besting quality, I baby my hardware. That said, I still prefer a nice sturdy/durable product.

I had my eye on the Customizer 104. I REALLY like the colors on that one. Not going to make a decision based on aesthetics, though.


Aesthetics should be a factor in the decision I think. If two keyboards use the same switches, and one looks a ton better for $10 more, I'd go with the better looking board.


----------



## Maytan

Oh, my bad. Holy jeebus the Model M is big. I think I have enough room, though.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Aesthetics should be a factor in the decision I think. If two keyboards use the same switches, and one looks a ton better for $10 more, I'd go with the better looking board.


I agree. I meant more-so that it's not going to the biggest factor in my decision. It'll be more or less the last thing on my list.


----------



## ch_123

The Customizer is basically the same case, so that's what you're up against.

The only fullsize Model M I own is one with a trackpoint


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


The Customizer is basically the same case, so that's what you're up against.

The only fullsize Model M I own is one with a trackpoint










I don't mean to be annoying, but do you possibly know (approximately) how wide it is? I have enough depth for pretty much anything.


----------



## ch_123

Unicomp's website from 10 years ago

For reasons that baffle everyone, Unicomp's website has actually gotten worse as time goes on.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Unicomp's website from 10 years ago

For reasons that baffle everyone, Unicomp's website has actually gotten worse as time goes on.










for not making a bit of sense.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Unicomp's website from 10 years ago

For reasons that baffle everyone, Unicomp's website has actually gotten worse as time goes on.


I'm baffled too, that information is quite useful.

Thanks for your help though, I think I can fit it. Just have to move my mousepad over a couple inches.


----------



## ch_123

Also note that due to the extensive dieting done by the Model M over its 25 year lifetime has reduced its weight from 2.3Kg down to about 1.8-1.9Kg


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Also note that due to the extensive dieting done by the Model M over its 25 year lifetime has reduced its weight from 2.3Kg down to about 1.8-1.9Kg










Sheesh. I'm guessing with weights like these, it takes a sledgehammer to get some flex out of them.


----------



## ch_123

There's a bit of flex in the case at some points. The weight largely comes from the hefty steel backplate of the internal assembly.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


There's a bit of flex in the case at some points. The weight largely comes from the hefty steel backplate of the internal assembly.


I was talking more about bowing the entire thing. I would expect plastic to have some flex, but I've had boards I could literally bend into a bow shape.


----------



## ch_123

Yeah, not going to happen easily









That said, I do have a picture somewhere where I broke apart a dead Model M and bent its backplate into an arch shape =]


----------



## Mas

Got the go ahead from the wife to order a new keyboard. Getting, the Filco with blue switches.

This will be my first mechanical keyboard. I hope I like it >_<


----------



## gonX

All this weight talk has had me thinking about my own keyboard - it's actually quite heavy compared to many of the keyboards I've had - which is a good thing


----------



## squarebox

I just got my first mechanical.
- love typing on it
- gaming is so-so due to the actuation height (was using Razer arctosa(laptop-style keys))

Some pics :


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iPodder* 
Does anyone even use that button thats to the right of the windows key? (dunno what it's called)

That key opens up the context menu (which some people call the "right-click menu"). I will sometimes use it if I can instantly tell that it would be faster to press that button instead of navigating with my mouse and then right-clicking. So, I will only use this key when it's more convenient and/or faster to do so.

For example: renaming multiple files within the same folder. It's easier for me to just ignore the mouse and completely rely on the keyboard. So, I'll start by using my mouse to click on the first file (or, I might just use the arrow keys), and then I'll press the Context Menu key, press 'M' for "Rename", type the new name, press Enter, use the arrow keys to navigate to the next file, and then repeat the process. It's much easier to do that instead of switching back and forth between the mouse and the keyboard (although, it looks more complicated when it's typed out like this).

So whether or not I use this key always depends on whether or not it makes sense to use it. I'm always looking for the path of least resistance in order to constantly be as efficient as possible.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Good suggestion.

I'm going to keep my eye on that. I'd still prefer new, to be completely honest. I don't need tank-besting quality, I baby my hardware. That said, I still prefer a nice sturdy/durable product.

I had my eye on the Customizer 104. I REALLY like the colors on that one. Not going to make a decision based on aesthetics, though.

The SpaceSaver is available in that exact same color. They call it "Black with metallic gray".

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mas* 
Got the go ahead from the wife to order a new keyboard. Getting, the Filco with blue switches.

This will be my first mechanical keyboard. I hope I like it >_<

You'll love it!


----------



## yashau

Deck Legend ftw I would say. I own their tactile ice


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Yeah, not going to happen easily









That said, I do have a picture somewhere where I broke apart a dead Model M and bent its backplate into an arch shape =]

Haha, nice one.

@TwoCables
Thanks for pointing that out, I hadn't noticed they had that available. Curious, any reason not to choose a SpaceSaver model?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Haha, nice one.

@TwoCables
Thanks for pointing that out, I hadn't noticed they had that available. Curious, any reason not to choose a SpaceSaver model?

You're welcome.

I guess the only reason not to get the SpaceSaver is so that you end up with one that looks almost perfectly identical to the IBM Model M.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
You're welcome.

I guess the only reason not to get the SpaceSaver is so that you end up with one that looks almost perfectly identical to the IBM Model M.

As awesome as the Model M is, I think I prefer the space. Thanks again. Maybe I can ask Manyak to bring a BS board over.


----------



## ch_123

The Customizer has drainage channels. On the flipside, the case may have more flex because there's a lot of hollow space inside it. In terms of typing quality, they are identical.

Oh, here's a nice size comparison pic between the two -


----------



## Maytan

Hmm. While I try not to eat/drink around my computer stuff, drainage channels could be nice if I spill some water on the board on accident. Tough choice now...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Hmm. While I try not to eat/drink around my computer stuff, drainage channels could be nice if I spill some water on the board on accident. Tough choice now...

When was the last time you spilled a beverage at your computer?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
When was the last time you spilled a beverage at your computer?









You raise a good point. I think I'll go with the SpaceSaver. Of course, I still haven't decided yet on exactly what board to buy. Buckling Springs look really nice to type on, I'm just a bit skeptical as to the required force.


----------



## ch_123

Taking a look at some pics of the internals, it seems that Unicomp may have dropped the channels, but just have holes in the case to let any liquids drip out. Compare -










with


----------



## Maytan

Even better! Thanks for the pictures.


----------



## gonX

Aww, my M10 doesn't even have drainage holes


----------



## azianai

whats the opinions on Adesso MKB-135B?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *azianai*


whats the opinions on Adesso MKB-135B?


I like mine, it's external build quality feels about the same as a Filco. Nothing really Pro or Con about it.

A good balance of Cost to Features.


----------



## Maytan

How are the custom keyboard covers from Unicomp? Assuming I decide to go with one of their boards, are they worth picking up for $10? How are they quality wise? Anybody know?


----------



## lmnop

it's a keyboard cover..................................


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


it's a keyboard cover..................................


Well, the picture on the website makes it look like nothing more than saran wrap. I was wondering how durable/thick it is. <_<


----------



## lmnop

it's a keyboard cover..... lol


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


it's a keyboard cover..... lol


I get what you're saying, but I don't want to spend $10 on something that's going to tear really easily.


----------



## lmnop

so don't buy it.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


so don't buy it.


But I want a keyboard cover.


----------



## ch_123

The old IBM ones are referred to as 'keyboard condoms' by some - they were made of a flexible plastic that allowed you to use the keyboard while the cover was on. I think I've heard mention that the Unicomp ones are hard plastic and are just to cover the keyboard while it is not in use.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


The old IBM ones are referred to as 'keyboard condoms' by some - they were made of a flexible plastic that allowed you to use the keyboard while the cover was on. I think I've heard mention that the Unicomp ones are hard plastic and are just to cover the keyboard while it is not in use.


I see. Thanks for the information, I was under the impression you could type with it on there. Not going to chance my $10 for a cover that isn't going to do much for me.


----------



## geoxile

What's the best way to clean a keyboard's plate? The AT101W's metal plating is super messy.


----------



## Maytan

Take the keys off and use q-tips+rubbing alcohol?


----------



## ch_123

If someone tells you to put it in a dishwasher, kick them.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
If someone tells you to put it in a dishwasher, kick them.

You can only do that with most rubber domes, right?


----------



## lmnop

you shouldn't do that with any keyboard.


----------



## gonX

Well... I've done it with 2 keyboards. It became less mushy after doing so, and still works. Other one was already partially dead, and died entirely after being put it in the dishwasher. So I'm thinking YMMV


----------



## Kamakazi

The dishwasher method can work, I used it on my Eclipse but I took the rubber mat out first then put everything else in. Just gotta make sure you let it 100% fully dry


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kamakazi* 
The dishwasher method can work, I used it on my Eclipse but I took the rubber mat out first then put everything else in. Just gotta make sure you let it 100% fully dry

You can soak it in water, but I wouldn't put it in the dishwasher. There could be left over food and stuff from the dishes that could get stuck in the keyboard somewhere.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
If someone tells you to put it in a dishwasher, kick them.

The casing and keycaps are perfectly safe in the dishwasher.

Just don't use those dishsoaps with "cleaning crystals". I haven't tried them myself, but I imagine they're pretty abrasive.


----------



## ch_123

In this case, the question was how to clean the front plate... which on an Alps keyboard has the PCB attached to the back, and the switches attached to the front.


----------



## lmnop

you would have to get a lot of Jamesons in me to do that period


----------



## KipH

Hi again. Kip here, in Taiwan. I was just shopping at the neighbourhood computer market and ran across a new (I think) Irocks KR-6431 Ultra X-Slim keyboard with newest style keycaps. I quite liked it and it seems to be better at typing Chinese than my 6230. This is important to the wife. She will also like that its quieter, I tend to bottom out with a nice clack on these browns. How do it stand up to our harsh dissection?

It goes for $580 here or about $20 US. That is more than a cheep rubber dome by about 2x but still much much cheaper than one with Mechanicals. So.... Yow, boo yow?


----------



## ch_123

Do they sell the iRocks mechanical keyboard?


----------



## KipH

yes... I have and am typing now on the Irocks 6230. Nice Browns with a clackity sound. But the layout is odd for English and just not good for Chinese. My wife is wanting something quieter and more normally laid out.


----------



## TwoCables

Maytan:

Those covers are pretty nice and they're very soft (very flexible) and durable. I worked at Pizza Hut from about 1995 to 1997, and they had these covers on their Model Ms which they were using on the order-taking terminals. While I wouldn't recommend that any "purist" actually type with one of these on their keyboard, it was still pretty easy to type on them. Plus, it kinda made the keyboard a little bit quieter. Plus, they did an excellent job of protecting the keyboard from everything (such as my really greasy nasty hands due to handling hundreds of pizzas). And of course, they could be removed and cleaned at any time.

But there's a catch: I doubt that they'd fit properly on the Das Model S.


----------



## coffeejunky

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


Hi again. Kip here, in Taiwan. I was just shopping at the neighbourhood computer market and ran across a new (I think) Irocks KR-6431 Ultra X-Slim keyboard with newest style keycaps. I quite liked it and it seems to be better at typing Chinese than my 6230. This is important to the wife. She will also like that its quieter, I tend to bottom out with a nice clack on these browns. How do it stand up to our harsh dissection?

It goes for $580 here or about $20 US. That is more than a cheep rubber dome by about 2x but still much much cheaper than one with Mechanicals. So.... Yow, boo yow?


The thing I find with scissor switch keyboards is that they feel great for the first 6 months, and then the domes start to get worn out and registering key presses becomes hit and miss. Also due to the flat key tops I find them hard on my fingers and I tend to get alot of mis-presses due to not having my finger planted in a shaped key. That being said they are pretty quiet and I find they make a more pleasing sound than the full height dome keyboards.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Maytan:

Those covers are pretty nice and they're very soft (very flexible) and durable. I worked at Pizza Hut from about 1995 to 1997, and they had these covers on their Model Ms which they were using on the order-taking terminals. While I wouldn't recommend that any "purist" actually type with one of these on their keyboard, it was still pretty easy to type on them. Plus, it kinda made the keyboard a little bit quieter. Plus, they did an excellent job of protecting the keyboard from everything (such as my really greasy nasty hands due to handling hundreds of pizzas). And of course, they could be removed and cleaned at any time.

But there's a catch: I doubt that they'd fit properly on the Das Model S.

I didn't plan on using it for pro longed typing. Just to keep it clean when I'm not using it, and so I can leave it on there when I only need to look something up quickly. Otherwise, I'd remove it before use. I don't really want just a hard cover, I'd rather just put a towel or piece of cardboard over it at that point.

Thanks for the information, but from the sounds of it; your Pizza Hut was using one of those older covers. (if ch_123 is correct) Still don't wanna chance it without complete confirmation.

Oh, and, I didn't want it for my Das. I'm planning on switching to a SpaceSaver, but I really want to try BS out before I buy.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I didn't plan on using it for pro longed typing. Just to keep it clean when I'm not using it, and so I can leave it on there when I only need to look something up quickly. Otherwise, I'd remove it before use. I don't really want just a hard cover, I'd rather just put a towel or piece of cardboard over it at that point.

Thanks for the information, but from the sounds of it; your Pizza Hut was using one of those older covers. (if ch_123 is correct) Still don't wanna chance it without complete confirmation.

Oh, and, I didn't want it for my Das. I'm planning on switching to a SpaceSaver, but I really want to try BS out before I buy.


Well, when I consider the photo of the over in addition to the description, I get the impression that these are the exact same covers. If they are, then these things are really, really, flexible and can almost be rolled up and stuffed in a drawer when not in use. They're almost like clear rubber & silicon mixed together or something.

In other words, for use as a way to keep the keyboard clean, I guess these would be a really neat choice. I'd certainly prefer something like this over a towel because unlike a towel, this cover is lint-free.







Plus, it would look nice. But of course, there are generic dust covers for keyboards that can be purchased from like Best Buy or something. But for a keyboard like the SpaceSaver, I'd much rather show it some love and get a nice cover like that flexible thing instead. Plus, you can put it on when you're using the phone to dampen the sound.


----------



## Maytan

You raise a few good points there. We'll have to see where I am when I purchase the board. (soon, 'cause I have $30 coming in from bing cashback.







)


----------



## frickfrock999

3 days until the Razer mech comes out!
Gah!
Excitement!





































Can't wait to get my illumination fix.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *frickfrock99*


3 days until the Razer mech comes out!
Gah!
Excitement!





































Can't wait to get my illumination fix.


And then the reign of Cherry MX-Blue Gaming Keyboards will begin. And the world will cry.


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


And then the reign of Cherry MX-Blue Gaming Keyboards will begin. And the world will cry.


They've been around for a while, the Filco Majestouch, the G80, etc.

Seeing as how this is my first mech keyboard, I'm glad it's a Cherry Blue.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *frickfrock99*


They've been around for a while, the Filco Majestouch, the G80, etc.

Seeing as how this is my first mech keyboard, I'm glad it's a Cherry Blue.


The difference is, unlike the U9BL or Black Widow, those boards were not marketed as Gaming Keyboards.

And _both_ the Cherry G80 and Filco Majestouch keyboards came with a variety of switch types. In Cherry MX-Brown, MX-Black, & MX-Blue.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frickfrock99* 
They've been around for a while, the Filco Majestouch, the G80, etc.

Seeing as how this is my first mech keyboard, I'm glad it's a Cherry Blue.

But how many are sold at Best Buy?







To the masses, the Black Widow will look like the first-ever mechanical gaming keyboard. Also, many of those people will think that the mechanical key switch is a new technology that perhaps Razer developed.


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But how many are sold at Best Buy?










Wouldn't know, I don't give my hard earned duckets to Worst Buy.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *frickfrock99*


Wouldn't know, I don't give my hard earned duckets to Worst Buy.










I wasn't asking to find out; I was making a point. To the masses, the Black Widow will look like the first-ever mechanical gaming keyboard. Also, many of those people will think that the mechanical key switch is a new technology that Razer developed. I mean, just take a look at what big stores like Best Buy sell for keyboards: nearly 99% of them are rubber dome keyboards (I didn't say 100% because I'm considering all stores that are similar in size to Best Buy).


----------



## mark45

I just recieved the FILCO Majestouch FKBN105MC/UKB (blues)

All i can say is wow.

I am trying to teach myself proper touch typing e.g the home keys/finger section as opposed to my natural 'touch typing' that i have got used to over the years.

Had a session L4D2 - no problems with the controls...the only thing that impaired me was the noob team, lol.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


I just recieved the FILCO Majestouch FKBN105MC/UKB (blues)

All i can say is wow.

I am trying to teach myself proper touch typing e.g the home keys/finger section as opposed to my natural 'touch typing' that i have got used to over the years.

Had a session L4D2 - no problems with the controls...the only thing that impaired me was the noob team, lol.


Aw sure, the first time you play it with this new keyboard, and you get a noob team. hehe

Anyway, experiment with hovering your wrists while typing and see what you think. Try different heights ranging from as high as possible to as low as possible without touching the wrist rest or desk. Also, try to keep the wrists up almost as though they were pulled up by strings.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Aw sure, the first time you play it with this new keyboard, and you get a noob team. hehe

Anyway, experiment with hovering your wrists while typing and see what you think. Try different heights ranging from as high as possible to as low as possible without touching the wrist rest or desk. Also, try to keep the wrists up almost as though they were pulled up by strings.


*Another person intrudes into conversation*

I think I sometimes do that.

Why is it that some places say that you should use all 10 fingers to type and they'd have their own keys that they always return to and stuff?

The finnish layout has 12 keys on the center row of the keyboard:
A S D F G H J K L Ã- Ã„

The thing that they teach would not work AS WELL with the finnish layout.

I have heard some finnish people talk about it.

But why is it so recommended to use the 10 finger style?

I use my thumbs for space bar, index fingers for keys, middle fingers for keys, the next finger for keys, and the pinkie for modifiers. This system works fine and I type 52 words/minute in english, a language that I only began learning at the age of 8.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


*Another person intrudes into conversation*

I think I sometimes do that.

Why is it that some places say that you should use all 10 fingers to type and they'd have their own keys that they always return to and stuff?

The finnish layout has 12 keys on the center row of the keyboard:
A S D F G H J K L Ã- Ã„

The thing that they teach would not work AS WELL with the finnish layout.

I have heard some finnish people talk about it.

But why is it so recommended to use the 10 finger style?

I use my thumbs for space bar, index fingers for keys, middle fingers for keys, the next finger for keys, and the pinkie for modifiers. This system works fine and I type 52 words/minute in english, a language that I only began learning at the age of 8.


Because we only have 10 fingers. I dunno. hehe I just use what I was taught. But I never hovered my wrists (which is what works best for the human body at a keyboard) because I was scared of fatigue. Well, it's completely the opposite: I am more relaxed with my wrists hovering and typing is more enjoyable this way. Plus, my touch can be much lighter which really accentuates the benefits of a good mechanical keyboard.


----------



## mark45

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Aw sure, the first time you play it with this new keyboard, and you get a noob team. hehe

Anyway, experiment with hovering your wrists while typing and see what you think. Try different heights ranging from as high as possible to as low as possible without touching the wrist rest or desk. Also, try to keep the wrists up almost as though they were pulled up by strings.


lol ^^ i know at first i thought it was me...but soon after knew whom to blame lol

Okay thanks







I will defo try this because i was just 'resting' my fingers on the keys on the home keys and found it uncomfortable to go from F > R and J > Y.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


I use my thumbs for space bar, index fingers for keys, middle fingers for keys, the next finger for keys, and the pinkie for modifiers. This system works fine and I type 52 words/minute in english, a language that I only began learning at the age of 8.


I kind of do this but sometimes my hand goes out of place and I then make mistakes. For me thats why i wanted to do it the recommended way.

And I done a quick test before...I can type ~45wpm with my way lol so you type better than me...for now lol...at the start of today I was managing 10, 11wpm with this new style but now i am managing about 20wpm on the tests which i have learnt to do the central keys and the top (not reached the bottom i.e. zxcvb...) quite an achievement IMO and could not have learnt it on a better keyboard...also i am managing NOT to bottom out the keys!









MAbye it's my clunky hands but I cannot seem to feel the "tactile feel"

edit: also i converted function 6 to 12 (dont use those, mabye f11 but not needed on my screen) to media keys via smartkeys... so Im not really missing much from my old keyboard lol


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


lol ^^ i know at first i thought it was me...but soon after knew whom to blame lol


lol

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


Okay thanks







I will defo try this because i was just 'resting' my fingers on the keys on the home keys and found it uncomfortable to go from F > R and J > Y.


You're welcome.

It's definitely important too. I've never come across anything that actually recommends keeping the wrists planted on a wrist rest or the desk, but like I said, now that I'm hovering mine, I finally know why.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mark45*


I kind of do this but sometimes my hand goes out of place and I then make mistakes. For me thats why i wanted to do it the recommended way.

And I done a quick test before...I can type ~45wpm with my way lol so you type better than me...for now lol...at the start of today I was managing 10, 11wpm with this new style but now i am managing about 20wpm on the tests which i have learnt to do the central keys and the top (not reached the bottom i.e. zxcvb...) quite an achievement IMO and could not have learnt it on a better keyboard...also i am managing NOT to bottom out the keys!









MAbye it's my clunky hands but I cannot seem to feel the "tactile feel"


To really feel it, I recommend just picking any key and pressing it down in slow motion.


----------



## rxkevin

I am about to purchase a filco but I am torn between getting the lettered version or the otaku one. Also between the tenkeyless and the 104 keys. I am going to go with the Blue switches as I feel I do a lot more typing than gaming at times and I doubt it will make too much of a difference in gaming.

Also does anyone have any recommendations on the palm rests. The filco version or the handmade leather one elitekeyboards sells. It is a 20 dollar difference so I am not sure if that is worth it.


----------



## Maytan

http://rubenerd.com/tag/unicomp/

The pictures on this website make the Unicomp look extremely attractive. I think I might just take the plunge, if I can sell the Das. (I don't have the money to throw around on keyboards, unfortunately)


----------



## lmnop

http://cgi.ebay.com/Das-Keyboard-Mec...item1e5e2c0f56


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
http://cgi.ebay.com/Das-Keyboard-Mec...item1e5e2c0f56

DAYUMN. I'm going to watch this, but I don't see me getting it for a reasonable price with 7 bids already.


----------



## fssbzz

that is mx blue right?


----------



## lmnop

yes.


----------



## lmnop

there is also a Das Model S Professional in British Columbia, a couple Deck 82 Toxic.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
there is also a Das Model S Professional in British Columbia, a couple Deck 82 Toxic.

Hmm, not a fan of International shipping. I'd take a look at the Deck, but I've already got three boards to choose from right now.


----------



## lmnop

both Deck 82 Toxic have 1 day left. one has a MAC Keycap. listings here.

the last couple Deck 82 Toxic sold for $80-90. these are discontinued and look brand new.


----------



## Maytan

Those are really nice prices.


----------



## lmnop

I think someone will steal the one with the MAC Keycap. not much interest in it.


----------



## Maytan

Got my eye on it.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rxkevin* 
I am about to purchase a filco but I am torn between getting the lettered version or the otaku one. Also between the tenkeyless and the 104 keys. I am going to go with the Blue switches as I feel I do a lot more typing than gaming at times and I doubt it will make too much of a difference in gaming.

Also does anyone have any recommendations on the palm rests. The filco version or the handmade leather one elitekeyboards sells. It is a 20 dollar difference so I am not sure if that is worth it.

I think the Filco Majestouch Otaku models are now discontinued so this might be your last chance to get one with Blank Keycaps. elitekeyboards is going to be selling Double Shot Keycaps soon.

the wrist rest elitekeyboards sells is worth it if you have the money. it's leather with foam and a metal base. 3M sells a wrist rest it's leatherette with silicone and a metal base. you can find it here.


----------



## Kamakazi

lmnop, I might have to start paying you off to stop talking about Deck's on ebay. I have been watching that mac key one for awhile now.


----------



## lmnop

I sent you a message about it a couple of days ago but you didn't respond. I don't think posting about it is going to change anything. if you want it that bad pay for it.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I sent you a message about it a couple of days ago but you didn't respond. I don't think posting about it is going to change anything. if you want it that bad pay for it.

I didn't? I thought I did.

Oh I know, and I am going to put my bid quite a bit higher this time for them.

Interesting this was is I was looking at them today and I was wondering as well how much lower the Mac one will go for.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kamakazi* 
lmnop, I might have to start paying you off to stop talking about Deck's on ebay. I have been watching that mac key one for awhile now.









Oh, I'll step off. You can have it.


----------



## lmnop

no. do I need permission for a audience?

no pictures my babies, autographs $10.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
no. do I need permission for a audience?

no pictures my babies, autographs $10.

Hmm, gotta' think about this one. A Unicomp keyboard cover or your autograph?


----------



## W4LNUT5

LMAO at the buy it now price

http://cgi.ebay.com/Deck-TG3-Keyboar...item45f53146a1


----------



## Marin

I don't see a buy it now price.


----------



## TwoCables

They need to have drastically different button colors for both Buy it Now and Place Bid. Like, make the Buy it Now buttons red or something. They're too similar.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
I don't see a buy it now price.

Once there's a bid, the buy it now button is no longer available.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I've got double shots!

Thirteen Cherry G81-7000HPBUS-2/02 keyboards arrived today.







I've put the alphanum keys from one on my SPOS and it looks great, much better than the original dim laser printing.

Oh, and Cherry MY switches? aaaaaaaahhhhhh garbage trash guh feels awful. The cushiony bottoming out feeling _could_ feel alright, but the heaviness of the keys just ruins it.

btw the seller said these were USB, but they're PS/2. That doesn't bother me none, but it is technically a false description. Should I pursue?


----------



## Maytan

Yes, if he's still selling more of them; you should 'pursue'. Someone might buy one for using a computer that is lacking PS/2. (IE: a laptop)

If you have the effort, just contact him and ask him to revise the listing.


----------



## lmnop

delete


----------



## Iceman0803

A couple of quick questions guys (and gal):

I noticed that in the frist page Manyak mentions something about the Das III having transposition issues. I just wanted to make sure, the Das S Professional does NOT have those issues, correct?

Also, does the usb hub still work if the PS/2 adapter is used?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Iceman0803* 
A couple of quick questions guys (and gal):

I noticed that in the frist page Manyak mentions something about the Das III having transposition issues. I just wanted to make sure, the Das S Professional does NOT have those issues, correct?

Also, does the usb hub still work if the PS/2 adapter is used?

Das Model S doesn't have the problems the Das III had.

Das Model S has a Y cable with two USB connections. one is to power the keyboard the other is to power the USB Hub.

yes.


----------



## Iceman0803

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Das Model S doesn't have the problems the Das III had.

Das Model S has a Y cable with two USB connections. one is to power the keyboard the other is to power the USB Hub.

yes.










Awesome! Thank you!

I'm looking to make the move from Filco to Das because I'm 0 for 2 with Majestouch boards. First one was a 104 key with cherry blues that just decided to stop working altogether after just 3 months (controller board issues). My second one is an 87 key with cherry blues (my current daily driver) and it works fine except for the fact that about 30 mins after opening it my "C" key stopped clicking plus I kinda miss having a keypad lol. Anyway, I always seem to recall you (and various others) advocating Deck and Das as well as saying how overrated Filco is and now I think I get it. For round 3 I'm going Das lol!


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Iceman0803* 
Awesome! Thank you!

I'm looking to make the move from Filco to Das because I'm 0 for 2 with Majestouch boards. First one was a 104 key with cherry blues that just decided to stop working altogether after just 3 months (controller board issues). My second one is an 87 key with cherry blues (my current daily driver) and it works fine except for the fact that about 30 mins after opening it my "C" key stopped clicking plus I kinda miss having a keypad lol. Anyway, I always seem to recall you (and various others) advocating Deck and Das as well as saying how overrated Filco is and now I think I get it. For round 3 I'm going Das lol!

well both are manufactured by the same company. Metadot (Das) has a 30 day return policy, good customer service and the Das Model S is cheaper than the Filco Majestouch in Canada and Europe.

Maytan voided his warranty by accidentally ripping out the stabilizer in his Das Model S. Metadot sent him a refurbished model that was checked for problems when they didn't have to.

I like Deck because it's American made and not mass produced on assembly lines in Asia. Deck is hand assembled and high quality.

I hope it works out


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Iceman0803* 
My second one is an 87 key with cherry blues (my current daily driver) and it works fine except for the fact that about 30 mins after opening it my "C" key stopped clicking plus I kinda miss having a keypad lol.

There are ways of fixing this - usually by airdusting the switch through the gaps at the switch's bottom.

As pointed out above, you're getting essentially the same thing with a different brand. Controller failures with Filcos are pretty rare, and the Das has the same switches as your Filco, so any potential issues are still latent.


----------



## Iceman0803

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
well both are manufactured by the same company. Metadot (Das) has a 30 day return policy, good customer service and the Das Model S is cheaper than the Filco Majestouch in Canada and Europe.

Maytan voided his warranty by accidentally ripping out the stabilizer in his Das Model S. Metadot sent him a refurbished model that was checked for problems when they didn't have to.

I like Deck because it's American made and not mass produced on assembly lines in Asia. Deck is hand assembled and high quality.

I hope it works out









Thanks!

The only reason I don't go with a Deck is because they're more expensive (trying to kinda stick to a budget lol) and I'm not a big fan of backlit boards. I'm all about less is more in that regard which is what drew me to Filco in the first place. Although if Deck made a matte black board with white backlighting I'd be all over it.


----------



## thisispatrick

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Frost basically white back lighting?


----------



## Iceman0803

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Frost basically white back lighting?

I always thought it was a shade of blue, but I could be wrong.

Also forgot to add that they don't use blue switches which are my favs so far.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Iceman0803* 
I always thought it was a shade of blue, but I could be wrong.

Also forgot to add that they don't use blue switches which are my favs so far.

I think its a lighter shade of blue which makes it kind of white with a hint of blue? Lol. Well have fun with your Das. I like mine!


----------



## lmnop

it's white like the Logitech Illuminated. I think cameras have a hard time capturing it.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
it's white like the Logitech Illuminated. I think cameras have a hard time capturing it.

Horay I was right then!


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quick question. I wanted to choose between these keyboards (please no suggestions) and it didn't go so well in my thread but here they are...

Logitech G19
Logitech G510
Logitech G110

I wanted to know which one I should get. Sorry but thanks in advance if anybody helps!


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
Quick question. I wanted to choose between these keyboards (please no suggestions) and it didn't go so well in my thread but here they are...

Logitech G19
Logitech G510
Logitech G110

I wanted to know which one I should get. Sorry but thanks in advance if anybody helps!

The keys of those boards are the WORST I have tried. Even my HP wireless feels a lot better. If you have money for a g19, get a deck legend for gods sake.


----------



## thiru

I love those kinds of posts in threads like these.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
i love those kinds of posts in threads like these.









lol


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Oh hey audiophiles I want to know which is better, no recommendations please!

skullcandy Aviator Black
skullcandy Pro Carbon
or Skullcandy smokin buds habitat rasta

thanks!


----------



## thisispatrick

Hey carnivores! I want to know which kind of meat is better. No recommendations please!

Steak
Bacon
Fried Chicken

Thanks!


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Oh hey audiophiles I want to know which is better, no recommendations please!

skullcandy Aviator Black
skullcandy Pro Carbon
or Skullcandy smokin buds habitat rasta

thanks!

LOL. Just like me. No recommendations.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Hey carnivores! I want to know which kind of meat is better. No recommendations please!

Steak
Bacon
Fried Chicken

Thanks!

Steak!!! Less fat since you grill it. Bacon is second. I hate chicken so I say that's off the list. I like BBQ chicken though so I don't completely hate chicken. LOL







.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
LOL. Just like me. No recommendations.

The point is that logitech keyboard are some of he worst I have tried.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *De-Zant* 
The point is that logitech keyboard are some of he worst I have tried.

Really? I'm using an old model my mom got for me and its great. Really nice for a laptop docking station. I didn't have the money so I used this old TV and when my mom got me this wireless keyboard and trackball mouse, I was soo happy and it satisfied me.

Edit - Oh yeah. You typed he instead of the. Typo.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Logitech is to keyboards as Burger King is to meat.
Logitech is to keyboards as Skullcandy is to headphones.
Logitech is to keyboards as an overpriced piece of crap is to something worthwhile.

At the very least don't get the ****ing G19.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
Really? I'm using an old model my mom got for me and its great. Really nice for a laptop docking station. I didn't have the money so I used this old TV and when my mom got me this wireless keyboard and trackball mouse, I was soo happy and it satisfied me.

It's FINE as a keyboard. It looks _cool_ and is decent for gaming. A better board doesn't make a better gamer.

But there are better boards out there.

PS talking about G11 15 19 510 boards. I haven-t tried other logitehcs.

EDIT: It has the worst feel in the keys.


----------



## thisispatrick

At the first sight of this I wanted to scream troll since he posted all this crap in this specific thread. Now I think that he just really doesn't know.

If you're going to post in the mechanical keyboard thread, you are going to obviously going to get mechanical keyboard recommendations.

That's like walking into a Burger King and asking for a Big Mac.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
At the first sight of this I wanted to scream troll since he posted all this crap in this specific thread. Now I think that he just really doesn't know.

If you're going to post in the mechanical keyboard thread, you are going to obviously going to get mechanical keyboard recommendations.

That's like walking into a Burger King and asking for a Big Mac.

You're posting random crap too. So is the person who posted for a skullcandy audio recommendation on 3 headphones (no recommendations).

Edit - Steak is still awesome (*Off Topic*)!!!!!!

Edit 2 - I like the Burger King and Big Mac part though


----------



## Phaedrus2129

We were being sarcastic.


----------



## thisispatrick

The reason Phaedrus and I (if I may speak for him) posted those comments are because we are mocking you. (sarcasm ftw) Please don't take those comments seriously.

Once again. Back to the burger analogy. Walking into Burger King and saying, "Shutup cashier I don't want a Whopper. Just give me a Big Mac." is exactly what you're doing.

Basically if you walk into Burger King, be prepared for a Whopper.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

I don't want recommendations though so why bother if I don't?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


I don't want recommendations though so why bother if I don't?


Then good luck finding a Burger King employee who specializes in Big Macs.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


I don't want recommendations though so why bother if I don't?


Because you're making a mistake.

Think of a difference between apple earbuds (The g19) And a decent 5.1 audio setu (Deck legend). Which one would you pick if they were both the same price? The 5.1 setup of course. So why don't you get a mechanical keyboard and be happy for the next 15 years.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


Because you're making a mistake.

Think of a difference between apple earbuds (The g19) And a decent 5.1 audio setu (Deck legend). Which one would you pick if they were both the same price? The 5.1 setup of course. So why don't you get a mechanical keyboard and be happy for the next 15 years.










Sorry dude no recommendations. Didn't you hear the man?


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

I'll be happy with any Logitech Keyboard with the next 15 or so years as long as it doesn't die on me within a year which I don't expect.


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


I don't want recommendations though so why bother if I don't?


You're asking the wrong kind of people. Make a new thread.

*EDIT*

Most non-mechanicals die within 5 years. Most well-built mechanicals (e.g Deck) should last you for more than a decade.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
I'll be happy with any Logitech Keyboard with the next 15 or so years as long as it doesn't die on me within a year which I don't expect.

It will die in 2 years. A mechanical feels *20x* (I'm not lying.) better and last 10x longer. Most of them last 20 years if you don't purposely do anything bad to them.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
You're asking the wrong kind of people. Make a new thread.

*EDIT*

Most non-mechanicals die within 5 years. Most well-built mechanicals (e.g Deck) should last you for more than a decade.

I had a thread but I didn't get much. I was hoping I would get more answers on this thread since lots of people have viewed it.


----------



## De-Zant

K. Everone let him do what he wants.

Out of those I recommend the cheapest one. That way when you realise the mistake you have made, you have not wasted so much money...


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


K. Everone let him do what he wants.

Out of those I recommend the cheapest one. That way when you realise the mistake you have made, you have not wasted so much money...


I will probably get a razer if the logitech fails me/pisses me off.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Oh hey audiophiles I want to know which is better, no recommendations please!

skullcandy Aviator Black
skullcandy Pro Carbon
or Skullcandy smokin buds habitat rasta

thanks!


I thought you were serious at first, I got ready to slap you.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


I will probably get a razer if the logitech fails me/pisses me off.


If you don't want recommendations, I can say this:

Don't get a lycosa. It's a decent for a rubber dome, but it has much problems. Keys don't work, keys sticking, media keys not working, dim backlight, plasticy feeling buttons.

What I RECOMMEND: Go to a store and request to try
1: G15/19/110/510
2: Razer lycosa
3: A deck legend

Then decide which you like the best


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *maytan*


i thought you were serious at first, i got ready to slap you.


lol


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


If you don't want recommendations, I can say this:

Don't get a lycosa. It's a decent for a rubber dome, but it has much problems. Keys don't work, keys sticking, media keys not working, dim backlight, plasticy feeling buttons.

What I RECOMMEND: Go to a store and request to try
1: G15/19/110/510
2: Razer lycosa
3: A deck legend

Then decide which you like the best


Thanks but I don't think many stores have it around Connecticut. Does anybody think STAPLES is worth a shot?


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


Thanks but I don't think many stores have it around Connecticut. Does anybody think STAPLES is worth a shot?


First, I don't know what "IT" is.
Second, I don't know about american stores. I live in finland.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


First, I don't know what "IT" is.
Second, I don't know about american stores. I live in finland.


By "it", I mean the keyboards (G15,G19,Razer Lycosa,etc.).


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


Thanks but I don't think many stores have it around Connecticut. Does anybody think STAPLES is worth a shot?


Staples will most likely not carry any of those keyboards.

Just get this.








+


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

I live in Waterford. I don't want to do something like travel all the way out of the city like 10 miles just to look at some keyboards. Should I just try the keyboards one by one if newegg allows me to exchange one keyboard for another?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
I live in Waterford. I don't want to do something like travel all the way out of the city like 10 miles just to look at some keyboards. Should I just try the keyboards one by one if newegg allows me to exchange one keyboard for another?

Go for it if you want to pay the restocking fee.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Go for it if you want to pay the restocking fee.

I don't think I'll be doing that then. I mean paying to return? That's just pathetic.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


I live in Waterford.


What's up with Americans naming all their cities after Irish places? Damn confusing to me... >.>


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


What's up with Americans naming all their cities after Irish places? Damn confusing to me... >.>


I didn't even know that. LOL.


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


What's up with Americans naming all their cities after Irish places? Damn confusing to me... >.>


Because there were a lot of Irish immigrants coming to the U.S way back when.


----------



## Maytan

I have a question for you, ch_123. How does the sound of the SpaeSaver compare with the larger Customizer? I've been contemplating my decision, and it dawned on my that the difference in space on insides of the keyboards should obviously effect the sound.


----------



## House Cat

I got my unicomp yesterday, it's well good very clicky i really like it.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *frickfrock99*


Because there were a lot of Irish immigrants coming to the U.S way back when.


I know, but I'm still amused that almost about every place in Ireland has an equivalent in the US. Sometimes even two.

Quote:



I have a question for you, ch_123. How does the sound of the SpaeSaver compare with the larger Customizer? I've been contemplating my decision, and it dawned on my that the difference in space on insides of the keyboards should obviously effect the sound.


Largely the same, although it seems to me that the larger Model M derivatives are somewhat louder. The ones I have encountered have a louder "clack" than the Unicomp Spacesaver, and the IBM Space Saving Keyboard. The fullsize Model Ms have quite a good deal of hollow space in them, so there's going to be some additional reverb going on.

Check out here.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Iceman0803*


I always thought it was a shade of blue, but I could be wrong.

Also forgot to add that they don't use blue switches which are my favs so far.


White LEDs actually look just a tiny bit blue (at least the ones I have seen do).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


Quick question. I wanted to choose between these keyboards (please no suggestions) and it didn't go so well in my thread but here they are...

Logitech G19
Logitech G510
Logitech G110

I wanted to know which one I should get. Sorry but thanks in advance if anybody helps!


None of them. I owned both the Razer Lycosa and the G15, and both of them now feel like absolute *trash* in comparison to the Filco Majestouch (which is one of the "good" mechanical keyboards).

If you're willing to spend this much money on a keyboard, then get a good mechanical keyboard instead of one of a rubber dome keyboard. It will cost the same and be roughly 100 times better in every way imaginable.

If you're worried about not having media keys, then there are these programs:

SharpKeys
KeyboardLink
AutoHotKey

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


Really? I'm using an old model my mom got for me and its great. Really nice for a laptop docking station. I didn't have the money so I used this old TV and when my mom got me this wireless keyboard and trackball mouse, I was soo happy and it satisfied me.


I felt exactly the same way when I upgraded to the Razer Lycosa and the Logitech G15 (although, I preferred the simpler design of the Lycosa). I liked the Lycosa so much that I was strongly recommending it every chance I got.

But, then both the G15 and the Lycosa failed on me very hard. So, long story short, I ended up with the Filco Majestouch. The result is that for the first time ever, using my keyboard is *fun*. For the first time ever, my keyboard is perhaps my most favorite possession. I like my keyboard more than I like anything in my entire computer system. The feelings I had toward the G15 and the Lycosa were nowhere *near* this level.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


Edit - Oh yeah. You typed he instead of the. Typo.


Forgive him: he's a human being.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


You're posting random crap too. So is the person who posted for a skullcandy audio recommendation on 3 headphones (no recommendations).

Edit - Steak is still awesome (*Off Topic*)!!!!!!

Edit 2 - I like the Burger King and Big Mac part though










The reason why they posted that stuff was to make a point. Their point was that you came in here asking us to help you choose between three rubber dome keyboards. You see, this thread is basically like a mini mechanical keyboard forum. So by asking us to help you pick between three rubber dome keyboards is like some random person making a new account here on OCN just to ask us to help him decide between three pre-builts.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


I don't want recommendations though so why bother if I don't?


If you don't want recommendations, then it's important to say that at the time you ask for help.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


I'll be happy with any Logitech Keyboard with the next 15 or so years as long as it doesn't die on me within a year which I don't expect.


Most rubber dome keyboards will only last 5-7 years. Some might last longer if they're not used that much, or if the user has a really gentle touch on the keys. But in contrast, almost all good mechanical keyboards will easily last 15-20 years. Better yet, unlike rubber domes, a mechanical keyboard that's 10 years old will not feel like it's 10 years old. Instead, it will still feel new while a rubber dome would most _certainly_ feel like it's 10 years old!!!

But on top of all of this: almost any mechanical keyboard will feel _significantly_ better to type on than any rubber dome. Ask yourself one question: why are there so many people who will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever go back to rubber domes now that they know the difference? Why is there an entire thread dedicated to mechanical keyboards? Why is there an entire message board dedicated to mechanical keyboard enthusiasts? Why are there mechanical keyboard enthusiasts?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


I had a thread but I didn't get much. I was hoping I would get more answers on this thread since lots of people have viewed it.


Then you're either doing something wrong, or you're just very impatient.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


I will probably get a razer if the logitech fails me/pisses me off.


I had both the Razer Lycosa and the Logitech G15, and they are absolutely overpriced trash in comparison to good mechanical keyboards. Considering an expensive rubber dome keyboard when you could get an equally-priced good mechanical keyboard instead is like considering a pre-built computer when you could build a much better system yourself for ultimately the same cost.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


White LEDs actually look just a tiny bit blue (at least the ones I have seen do).

None of them. I owned both the Razer Lycosa and the G15, and both of them now feel like absolute *trash* in comparison to the Filco Majestouch (which is one of the "good" mechanical keyboards).

If you're willing to spend this much money on a keyboard, then get a good mechanical keyboard instead of one of a rubber dome keyboard. It will cost the same and be roughly 100 times better in every way imaginable.

If you're worried about not having media keys, then there are these programs:

SharpKeys
KeyboardLink
AutoHotKey

I felt exactly the same way when I upgraded to the Razer Lycosa and the Logitech G15 (although, I preferred the simpler design of the Lycosa). I liked the Lycosa so much that I was strongly recommending it every chance I got.

But, then both the G15 and the Lycosa failed on me very hard. So, long story short, I ended up with the Filco Majestouch. The result is that for the first time ever, using my keyboard is *fun*. For the first time ever, my keyboard is perhaps my most favorite possession. I like my keyboard more than I like anything in my entire computer system. The feelings I had toward the G15 and the Lycosa were nowhere *near* this level.

Forgive him: he's a human being.

The reason why they posted that stuff was to make a point. Their point was that you came in here asking us to help you choose between three rubber dome keyboards. You see, this thread is basically like a mini mechanical keyboard forum. So by asking us to help you pick between three rubber dome keyboards is like some random person making a new account here on OCN just to ask us to help him decide between three pre-builts.

If you don't want recommendations, then it's important to say that at the time you ask for help.









Most rubber dome keyboards will only last 5-7 years. Some might last longer if they're not used that much, or if the user has a really gentle touch on the keys. But in contrast, almost all good mechanical keyboards will easily last 15-20 years. Better yet, unlike rubber domes, a mechanical keyboard that's 10 years old will not feel like it's 10 years old. Instead, it will still feel new while a rubber dome would most _certainly_ feel like it's 10 years old!!!

But on top of all of this: almost any mechanical keyboard will feel _significantly_ better to type on than any rubber dome. Ask yourself one question: why are there so many people who will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever go back to rubber domes now that they know the difference? Why is there an entire thread dedicated to mechanical keyboards? Why is there an entire message board dedicated to mechanical keyboard enthusiasts? Why are there mechanical keyboard enthusiasts?

Then you're either doing something wrong, or you're just very impatient.

I had both the Razer Lycosa and the Logitech G15, and they are absolutely overpriced trash in comparison to good mechanical keyboards. Considering an expensive rubber dome keyboard when you could get an equally-priced good mechanical keyboard instead is like considering a pre-built computer when you could build a much better system yourself for ultimately the same cost.


I've been waiting for days and weeks and only a couple people.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


I've been waiting for days and weeks and only a couple people.


Did you bump the thread once per day? In order to keep any of your threads going, it's necessary to post a new reply at least once per day. But, posting a new reply more often than just once per day (just to bump the thread) is too much and also unnecessary.

Try it: post a new reply in that thread with just the word "Bump". Even though it has been 5 days since the last reply, I can almost guarantee you that you'll receive at _least_ one reply as a direct result of bumping your thread back up.

Here's the thread, which you created 5 days ago:

http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...-keyboard.html


----------



## gordesky1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *frickfrock99*


3 days until the Razer mech comes out!
Gah!
Excitement!





































Can't wait to get my illumination fix.



Don't you mean next month? From what it says on the site its 10/13









It was 9/21 But changed too 10/13 Even tho in my order page it still shows 9/21th


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Did you bump the thread once per day? In order to keep any of your threads going, it's necessary to post a new reply at least once per day. But, posting a new reply more often than just once per day (just to bump the thread) is too much and also unnecessary.

Try it: post a new reply in that thread with just the word "Bump". Even though it has been 5 days since the last reply, I can almost guarantee you that you'll receive at _least_ one reply as a direct result of bumping your thread back up.

Here's the thread, which you created 5 days ago:

http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...-keyboard.html


Oh. That's why people say "bump". I didn't know what it meant. Isn't it so that your thread shows up as one of the newer/bolded (unread/updated) threads?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


Oh. That's why people say "bump". I didn't know what it meant.


What happens when a new reply is posted is the thread gets bumped back up to the top of the list of threads in the forum where it's located. Of course, every thread in that forum which receives a new post afterward will get placed above it. So, that's why it's so important to only bump maybe once per day, or perhaps once every 12 hours; it helps to allow the forum to remain balanced, as opposed to a user bumping their thread like once every hour.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


Isn't it so that your thread shows up as one of the newer/bolded (unread/updated) threads?


Yeah! That's exactly what happens!


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Thanks. Still feel like a noob on the forum. Still though, I learned a lot here. +1 REP. Thanks for the info again!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
Thanks. Still feel like a noob on the forum. Still though, I learned a lot here. +1 REP. Thanks for the info again!

You're welcome!

But remember: to become less of a noob at anything in life, just allow yourself to be exposed to it frequently.







Of course, get involved too.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
You're welcome!

But remember: to become less of a noob at anything in life, just allow yourself to be exposed to it frequently.







Of course, get involved too.









OK. Back to the main topic.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Largely the same, although it seems to me that the larger Model M derivatives are somewhat louder. The ones I have encountered have a louder "clack" than the Unicomp Spacesaver, and the IBM Space Saving Keyboard. The fullsize Model Ms have quite a good deal of hollow space in them, so there's going to be some additional reverb going on.

Check out here.

Ah, the 'quieter' clack is fine by me; but what makes me think is the reverb. I might like the sound, after all.

I'm going to go check out that link.

EDIT: I see there's a Space Saver on there, which is perfect! I do like the 'echo' so to speak that the IBM has, but I think I actually prefer the sound of the Space Saver to the IBM and IBM Mini.


----------



## ch_123

IIRC, my SSK sounds like my Endurapro used to sound, before a rather unfortunate accident befell the latter, and forced it out of service, and was scrapped for keycaps and buckling springs...


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
IIRC, my SSK sounds like my Endurapro used to sound, before a rather unfortunate accident befell the latter, and forced it out of service, and was scrapped for keycaps and buckling springs...

Hmm, does the Endurapro have mouse buttons on it? I recall it looked like it did. I'll go look.


----------



## ch_123

Yes, and a pointing stick. Not a particularly good one, but if you like pointing sticks, you could probably adapt to it and find it useful, I certainly did.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Yes, and a pointing stick. Not a particularly good one, but if you like pointing sticks, you could probably adapt to it and find it useful, I certainly did.

I certainly think they're a neat idea; definitely more so than putting a track pad on a keyboard. That's one thing I never liked...

If the Endurapro sounded like the SSK, I assume that means it has some 'echo'/'reverb' in there, correct? Considering it's made by Unicomp, it probably has a similar sound to the Space Saver; just with added 'echo'. (am I correct in assuming this?)

That definitely makes it interesting. The deciding factor would be the pointer and the price tag. It's like 40% more expensive, and I'm not sure whether I want the pointer or not. Hum, well; I've got until this board sells to decide, no rush.


----------



## TwoCables

That's the sound of the springs! I love that sound! I even sometimes hear it from my Tactile Click!


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
That's the sound of the springs! I love that sound! I even sometimes hear it from my Tactile Click!

I wouldn't call it the actual sound of the springs; as it's not really the springs making the 'echo'. Rather, it's the cause of the casing it's used in; correct?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I certainly think they're a neat idea; definitely more so than putting a track pad on a keyboard. That's one thing I never liked...

If the Endurapro sounded like the SSK, I assume that means it has some 'echo'/'reverb' in there, correct? Considering it's made by Unicomp, it probably has a similar sound to the Space Saver; just with added 'echo'. (am I correct in assuming this?)

That definitely makes it interesting. The deciding factor would be the pointer and the price tag. It's like 40% more expensive, and I'm not sure whether I want the pointer or not. Hum, well; I've got until this board sells to decide, no rush.

Sorry, just to clarify, when I say "SSK", I'm referring to the oldschool IBM Space Saving Keyboard -










Ironically, due to the huge borders on the SSK, the Unicomp Spacesaver/Endurapro is only about an inch or two wider than the old "Tenkeyless" Model M.

The Spacesaver uses the same case as the Endurapro, just without the pointing stick (if you look at the close up on Unicomp's site, you can see the markings below the space bar where the trackpoint buttons would go) The Endurapro in turn is derived from an old IBM Japan keyboard, the 5576-C01 -










I should point out that the pointing stick is pretty low caliber. It was designed in the SVGA days, and thus its stock sensitivity isn't great for modern screens. If you want to use it on a modern monitor, you need to churn up Window's mouse settings to the highest and turn off "Enhance mouse sensitivity" or whatever it's called. With these, I found it usable on my 1600x1200 screen, but do not expect something that is as good as a Thinkpad trackpoint.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Sorry, just to clarify, when I say "SSK", I'm referring to the oldschool IBM Space Saving Keyboard

That's what I thought. Did I give the impression that I was using SSK to refer to a different keyboard?

Quote:

The Spacesaver is based off the same case as the Endurapro (if you look at the close up on Unicomp's site, you can see the markings below the space bar where the trackpoint buttons would go) The Endurapro in turn comes from an old IBM Japan keyboard, the 5576-C01 -

*snip*

Quote:

Ah, yeah. I noticed that box down there on the Space Saver.

I should point out that the pointing stick is pretty low caliber. It was designed in the SVGA days, and thus its stock sensitivity isn't great for modern screens. If you want to use it on a modern monitor, you need to churn up Window's mouse settings to the highest and turn off "Enhance mouse sensitivity" or whatever it's called. With these, I found it usable on my 1600x1200 screen, but do not expect something that is as good as a Thinkpad trackpoint.
Hmm, that actually makes it rather unattractive to me, as I usually have my Win. Sens. set to 6/11 for games. (though I do have the Pointer Precision Enhancement turned off.)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I wouldn't call it the actual sound of the springs; as it's not really the springs making the 'echo'. Rather, it's the cause of the casing it's used in; correct?

Nope, it's really the sound of the spring. It's the sound of the spring vibrating. The reason why I sometimes hear it in the Tactile Click is because when the switch clicks, the compression of the spring instantly changes at the exact same time which causes the spring to vibrate and ring out a bit. That's why it's kind of a metallic sound.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Nope, it's really the sound of the spring. It's the sound of the spring vibrating. The reason why I sometimes hear it in the Tactile Click is because when the switch clicks, the compression of the spring instantly changes at the exact same time which causes the spring to vibrate and ring out a bit. That's why it's kind of a metallic sound.

Then I must ask, why in the world do the three keyboards sound different? (The Model M/SSK/Space Saver, as according to those recordings.)

Do they all use different springs or something? What am I missing here?


----------



## ch_123

In the buckling spring's case, the click comes from the springs, but it is amplified by the acoustic properties of how it is housed. When not housed in the keyboard, it's quite quiet.

How do I know? *picks up spare buckling spring assembly and keycap, and proceeds to depress it*

Quote:

That's what I thought. Did I give the impression that I was using SSK to refer to a different keyboard?
I misread you. Never mind.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
In the buckling spring's case, the click comes from the springs, but it is amplified by the acoustic properties of how it is housed. When not housed in the keyboard, it's quite quiet.

How do I know? *picks up spare buckling spring assembly and keycap, and proceeds to depress it*

I misread you. Never mind.

That's pretty interesting.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Then I must ask, why in the world do the three keyboards sound different? (The Model M/SSK/Space Saver, as according to those recordings.)

Do they all use different springs or something? What am I missing here?

Design, I guess. Or, perhaps the metal of some springs isn't as musical as others. Or, it may have a design characteristic such that the spring doesn't vibrate as much. Or, perhaps the smaller housing makes it harder to hear the spring vibrating. Regardless, that's not echo or reverb: it's just the sound of the spring ringing due to vibration. That's why it's kind of metallic, and that's why it's almost like a _ping_ sound - almost.


----------



## ch_123

On the old Model F keyboards, if you disassembled the thing, you can remove the housings in which the buckling springs sit in as individual units -










If you put the spring in the housing and the keycap on it, the thing will sound exactly like a fully assembled keyboard. Remove the spring and buckle it without the housing, you get a weak click.

There's also some question over whether the spring hitting the barrel affects the sound. Some experiments where performed over at Geekhack, but I don't think we drew anything conclusive from them.


----------



## Traeumt

Can't find any dealer or any company that ships mechanical keyboard to Turkey that sux :S been looking for it like 1 year ...


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
On the old Model F keyboards, if you disassembled the thing, you can remove the housings in which the buckling springs sit in as individual units -

*snip*

If you put the spring in the housing and the keycap on it, the thing will sound exactly like a fully assembled keyboard. Remove the spring and buckle it without the housing, you get a weak click.

There's also some question over whether the spring hitting the barrel affects the sound. Some experiments where performed over at Geekhack, but I don't think we drew anything conclusive from them.

Hmm, judging by the shape of that case; it seems very plausible that it 'magnifies' the sound.

Even so, I'm totally stuck on choosing a board here.

EDIT: I give up on Das. My backdpace key is squeaking AGAIN. And this time, lubrication didn't fix it. I tested the switch itself, and it seems fine. Do I have to sink another $15 into this for an RMA? Hell, by now; I practically know Erin personally. I'm going to have to take a recording of the squeaky key, for I fear they won't believe me.

Call me obsessive, but there's nothing more annoying than a squeaky key on a keyboard in my opinion. Except maybe weaboos, but it's a damn close call.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Hmm, judging by the shape of that case; it seems very plausible that it 'magnifies' the sound.

Even so, I'm totally stuck on choosing a board here.

EDIT: I give up on Das. My backdpace key is squeaking AGAIN. And this time, lubrication didn't fix it. I tested the switch itself, and it seems fine. Do I have to sink another $15 into this for an RMA? Hell, by now; I practically know Erin personally. I'm going to have to take a recording of the squeaky key, for I fear they won't believe me.

Call me obsessive, but there's nothing more annoying than a squeaky key on a keyboard in my opinion. Except maybe weaboos, but it's a damn close call.

I'm planning on getting the black window ultimate but its pretty loud for a mechanical with that blue switch thing I think TwoCables mentioned to me yesterday. I think I might get a rubber domed. I'm probably going to build a new computer within 4 years so I don't really mind if the keyboard dies on me. It would die on my sister since I would probably dump it to her.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
I'm planning on getting the black window ultimate but its pretty loud for a mechanical with that blue switch thing I think TwoCables mentioned to me yesterday. I think I might get a rubber domed. I'm probably going to build a new computer within 4 years so I don't really mind if the keyboard dies on me. It would die on my sister since I would probably dump it to her.

For the price of the Black Widow - and especially for the price of the Black Widow Ultimate, you could get a much better keyboard. Remember, this keyboard's quality isn't the best: it will have wobbly keycaps in addition to having a price that's higher than it should be.

Also, the click that the Cherry MX Blue keyswitch makes is not loud. It's quieter than the sound of typing. The purpose of the click is to provide a subtle auditory feedback which increases the precise sensation of the Cherry MX Blues.

But if you think that the Cherry MX Blues are really going to be that much of a problem, then find a non-clicky keyboard such as the Das Model S Silent, or some other keyboard that has "non-clicky" switches. The most popular non-clicky keyswitch is the Cherry MX Brown.

While I think it's somewhat cool that Razer has a mechanical keyboard now, I wish they would have chosen a higher quality OEM to build it, and I also wish they weren't charging too much for it. I think that they're going to give everyone the wrong impression of mechanical keyboards (their site is already doing that, and the keyboard isn't even out in stores yet).

So, a keyboard that has the Cherry MX Blues will not be LOUD. It'll just provide a subtle and crisp little click with each keystroke.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
For the price of the Black Widow - and especially for the price of the Black Widow Ultimate, you could get a much better keyboard. Remember, this keyboard's quality isn't the best: it will have wobbly keycaps in addition to having a price that's higher than it should be.

Also, the click that the Cherry MX Blue keyswitch makes is not loud. It's quieter than the sound of typing. The purpose of the click is to provide a subtle auditory feedback which increases the precise sensation of the Cherry MX Blues.

But if you think that the Cherry MX Blues are really going to be that much of a problem, then find a non-clicky keyboard such as the Das Model S Silent, or some other keyboard that has "non-clicky" switches. The most popular non-clicky keyswitch is the Cherry MX Brown.

While I think it's somewhat cool that Razer has a mechanical keyboard now, I wish they would have chosen a higher quality OEM to build it, and I also wish they weren't charging too much for it. I think that they're going to give everyone the wrong impression of mechanical keyboards (their site is already doing that, and the keyboard isn't even out in stores yet).

So, a keyboard that has the Cherry MX Blues isn't going to be LOUD. It'll just provide a subtle and crisp little click with each keystroke.

I find some click pens quiet loud so thats what I thought it would sound like. I never thought it would be that quiet.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
I find some click pens quiet loud so thats what I thought it would sound like. I never thought it would be that quiet.

The clicks that the Cherry MX Blues make are similar to the clicks that a retractable pen makes, but they are quieter.

However, I think that no mechanical keyboard is capable of being stealthy for situations like using the computer in the middle of the night and hoping that nobody busts you.







Even most rubber domes are too noisy for that.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
For the price of the Black Widow - and especially for the price of the Black Widow Ultimate, you could get a much better keyboard. Remember, this keyboard's quality isn't the best: it will have wobbly keycaps in addition to having a price that's higher than it should be.

Is the keycap thing known for definite?


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Is the keycap thing known for definite?

I thought you could only pre-order it. Lets see how people think it performs when you can actually order it.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Is the keycap thing known for definite?

yes. the plunger underneath is bigger than the stem. they wobble, go crooked.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
yes. the plunger underneath is bigger than the stem. they wobble, go crooked.

Oh. Do they have a picture of it online somewhere?


----------



## lmnop

TVS, Adesso have the same problem.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
yes. the plunger underneath is bigger than the stem. they wobble, go crooked.

I love having you around. I mean, you basically just came in and saved me.

So, seriously: thank you.









So yeah, this is what I was referring to when I was talking about the wobbly keycaps. It's cool that Razer has a mechanical keyboard now, but it's overpriced.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I love having you around. I mean, you basically just came in and saved me.

So, seriously: thank you.









So yeah, this is what I was referring to when I was talking about the wobbly keycaps. It's cool that Razer has a mechanical keyboard now, but it's overpriced.

Its $20 bucks off from the Megalodon. Its less expensive though compared to logitech's crap (I've turned against them.







LOL







).


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
Its $20 bucks off from the Megalodon. Its less expensive though compared to logitech's crap (I've turned against them.







LOL







).

Hmm... I dunno. I just have my doubts because it's a Razer-branded keyboard, and also because the OEM they chose wasn't really the best. :/

But are you saying that you can get a $20 discount off the Black Widow? I mean, does it include both the Black Widow and the Black Widow Ultimate?


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

No, sorry. I mean $20 bucks less than the megalodon. not a discount. I don't think you can buy it yet. You can pre-order it off of their site though.


----------



## lmnop

delete


----------



## ch_123

Ah yes, I remember those pictures of the wobbly keycaps.

Due to the keyboard not being commercially available, I forget what valid information is known/not known about it.

That, and I tend to fall asleep when I look at pictures of gamer keyboards.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
delete

Pretty weak compared to the G19 and G15. Looks less awesome/epic compared to those two. The only nice thing they always put in now is the color changing backlighting. It has too many macro keys and options. I don't think anybody's going to use all of the macro keys and fill up all 3 macro settings.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
No, sorry. I mean $20 bucks less than the megalodon. not a discount. I don't think you can buy it yet. You can pre-order it off of their site though.

Well, the regular Black Widow is $79.99 while the Black Widow Ultimate is $129.99. But these prices are higher than they should be when considering the quality you're getting. :/


----------



## W4LNUT5

As bad as I'd like to assume and make those claims about the BlackWidow before it's actually released, we really can't. No one will know the final build quality until they start mass producing them. A prototype is just a prototype. . .


----------



## frickfrock999

So until I get my new Razer, I got this to hold me over.
It's got cherry brown switches


----------



## Bennylava

What about wireless ergonomic mechanical keyboards? Preferably with LED backlit keys? Probly doesn't exist. Too specific.


----------



## lmnop

Diatec had a Filco Bluetooth model.


----------



## Maytan

So I got to try out White Alps today. Dang they feel funny, in a good way. The click is pretty nice, but the tactility is light. They feel 'bottom heavy', if that makes sense.

Interesting switch in my opinion.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
As bad as I'd like to assume and make those claims about the BlackWidow before it's actually released, we really can't. No one will know the final build quality until they start mass producing them. A prototype is just a prototype. . .

But it doesn't change the fact that they could have chosen a better OEM. But hey, it's Razer, so I'm not surprised.


----------



## azianai

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But it doesn't change the fact that they could have chosen a better OEM. But hey, it's Razer, so I'm not surprised.

like Nasa, the contract goes to the lowest bidder
btw im a convert, loving my adesso mechanical

and it even has the basic multimedia keys available by Shift and F1-6


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


So I got to try out White Alps today. Dang they feel funny, in a good way. The click is pretty nice, but the tactility is light. They feel 'bottom heavy', if that makes sense.

Interesting switch in my opinion.


Yeah, tactile/click Alps switches bottom out particularly hard due to the way they are designed.

The White Alps are like a poor man's buckling spring. If you can imagine the white switch with better tactility, and a better force curve (i.e. not bottoming out so bad), and the click point further down the travel, you're getting close to what a buckling spring is like to type on.

Did you find the White alps Particularly stiff? What keyboard is it?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

TwoCables... Knock it out. The Razer isn't going to be low quality. It's the reincarnation of the iOne M10BL. iOne's build quality isn't very bad at all. I've handled an iOne board, with the rubber coating Razer is likely to use, and there's nothing wrong with it. A little lighter than Costar, a smidgen more flex, no crooked keys, good soldering. No huhu. The Razer isn't going to have fantastic build quality, but this isn't the Leadman of keyboards we're talking about.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
TwoCables... Knock it out. The Razer isn't going to be low quality. It's the reincarnation of the iOne M10BL. iOne's build quality isn't very bad at all. I've handled an iOne board, with the rubber coating Razer is likely to use, and there's nothing wrong with it. A little lighter than Costar, a smidgen more flex, no crooked keys, good soldering. No huhu. The Razer isn't going to have fantastic build quality, but this isn't the Leadman of keyboards we're talking about.

Please don't single me out. Christine is just as guilty here. I have yet to see her say good things about it like you have here.

But time will certainly tell. I heard that it's supposed to hit store shelves today, so I am going to go play with one today (hopefully at Best Buy or someplace like that).


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


TwoCables... Knock it out. The Razer isn't going to be low quality. It's the reincarnation of the iOne M10BL. iOne's build quality isn't very bad at all. I've handled an iOne board, with the rubber coating Razer is likely to use, and there's nothing wrong with it. A little lighter than Costar, a smidgen more flex, no crooked keys, good soldering. No huhu. The Razer isn't going to have fantastic build quality, but this isn't the Leadman of keyboards we're talking about.


Kinda hard for either you or TwoCables to tell until the keyboard is released


----------



## lmnop

the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate has a lot of functionality for a mechanical keyboard. 

Multimedia Ports
Media Keys
Macros
Windows Key Lock
last keyboard we seen with this much functionality was the Gigabyte GK-K8000.

I can't help but notice some of the keys look crooked. I think Cherry MX Blue switches are too subjective to recommend to gamers and if a typist needed a recommendation I would recommend something more conventional like a Das or Filco.

huhu?


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate has a lot of functionality for a mechanical keyboard.

I can't help but notice some of the keys look crooked. I think Cherry MX Blue switches are too subjective to recommend to gamers and if a typist needed a recommendation for a mechanical keyboard I would recommend something more conventional like a Das or Filco.

huhu?










I think the real test won't be with us, but with mainstream gamers. I've shadowed a few... let's say... less enthusiastic forums compared to OCN and to them they look at this like the first ever mechanical keyboard ever invented. I think the true lasting power of the Black widow will be determined by this mass of gamers who've known nothing more then G15s until now. I do however wish my Das Model S came with some media keys...

And the Das and Filco use both Blues and Browns, so I'm missing the bit on how they'd be superior to the Blackwidow. Fill me in please?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*


I think the real test won't be with us, but with mainstream gamers. I've shadowed a few... let's say... less enthusiastic forums compared to OCN and to them they look at this like the first ever mechanical keyboard ever invented. I think the true lasting power of the Black widow will be determined by this mass of gamers who've known nothing more then G15s until now. I do however wish my Das Model S came with some media keys...

And the Das and Filco use both Blues and Browns, so I'm missing the bit on how they'd be superior to the Blackwidow. Fill me in please?










I didn't say superior I said conventional. the Das and Filco are elegant mechanical keyboards with standard layouts and n-key rollover.

I can't picture a programmer typing on a Razer Blackwidow Ultimate. sorry.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I didn't say superior I said conventional. the Das and Filco are elegant mechanical keyboards with standard layouts and n-key rollover.

I can't picture a programmer typing on a Razer Blackwidow Ultimate. sorry.


You've a major point there. A more professional look?

I'm looking forward to the first real hands-on review of the Blackwidow. Personally, I think it'd be a big hit with the mainstream gaming community, as this would probably be their first introduction into mechanical keyboards. I'm not looking forward though to "switch" flamewars or brand flamewars... They usually pop up once something becomes very popular.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I didn't say superior I said conventional. the Das and Filco are elegant mechanical keyboards with standard layouts and n-key rollover.

I can't picture a programmer typing on a Razer Blackwidow Ultimate. sorry.


Yeah, but our Deck's would probably wouldn't feel at home with a Programmer either.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Yeah, but our Deck's would probably wouldn't feel at home with a Programmer either.

I have never recommended a Deck to a typist. I have always recommended a Cherry MX switch based on allocation of time.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*


Kinda hard for either you or TwoCables to tell until the keyboard is released










Given that the OEM for this keyboard is known, and their keyboards are not necessarily up to the same standard as the Das or Filco, it would be somewhat reasonable to assume that the Blackwidow may not be as good as the Filco or the Das. Pictures of crooked keycaps suggest that there may be a problem in this area.

But otherwise I do agree. We can all infer and guess all day long but the proof of the pudding is in the eating, so they say.


----------



## lmnop




----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Yeah, tactile/click Alps switches bottom out particularly hard due to the way they are designed.

The White Alps are like a poor man's buckling spring. If you can imagine the white switch with better tactility, and a better force curve (i.e. not bottoming out so bad), and the click point further down the travel, you're getting close to what a buckling spring is like to type on.

Did you find the White alps Particularly stiff? What keyboard is it?


It was the Chicony KB-7001. I can sort of imagine the high tactility, but not the 'force curve'. I didn't get to really do a full spin on the board, I just felt it out. I mean, a side from the rough landing; I did like them. Do you think there's a good chance I'll like BS?


----------



## ch_123

When I talk about the force curve, I meant that the bottoming out is nowhere near as bad. So yes, you should like the buckling springs. They aren't that much stiffer than White Alps, so if you're worrying about stiffness of buckling springs over Brown Cherries, you shouldn't


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Wait, so are buckling springs different from the Cherry switches? I was under the impression that the Cherry MX switches were a type of buckling spring.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


When I talk about the force curve, I meant that the bottoming out is nowhere near as bad. So yes, you should like the buckling springs. They aren't that much stiffer than White Alps, so if you're worrying about stiffness of buckling springs over Brown Cherries, you shouldn't










Oh, sweet! Thanks for the information. I'm going to try picking up a Unicomp (exactly which one to be decided, but I'm pretty set on the Space Saver.) in a few days then, assuming my items sell well enough for me to afford one. (did you know action figures are huge sellers on ebay?)


----------



## lmnop

I bought my brother a Transformer G1 Optimus Prime action figure made out of steel for his birthday. cost a lot, but his happiness is priceless


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*


Wait, so are buckling springs different from the Cherry switches? I was under the impression that the Cherry MX switches were a type of buckling spring.


They're a completely different type of switch. You should read the first page of the thread for an explanation of the different types of switch.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I bought my brother a Transformer G1 Optimus Prime action figure made out of steel for his birthday. cost a lot, but his happiness is priceless











Awesome.

I had a ton of old action figures from when I was younger, but I never thought they'd sell. I handed them over to my Mom, who ended up making almost $100 for them off ebay.


----------



## lmnop

when I was younger I always had this constant fear a buckling spring would eject straight into my eye. thank god for Cherry


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


when I was younger I always had this constant fear a buckling spring would eject straight into my eye. thank god for Cherry










Hahaha, that gives me an idea. A trick keyboard, press a key and the key ejects itself into the air.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d* 
Wait, so are buckling springs different from the Cherry switches? I was under the impression that the Cherry MX switches were a type of buckling spring.

The springs in the Cherry MX switches just go straight up and down while the spring in the Buckling Spring switch buckles which causes actuation to occur.

But now the Cherry MX Blues are supposed to be somewhat of an imitation, although they're nowhere near as loud, and they require a little less force to actuate (they're noticeably softer, but not by a significant amount).


----------



## gordesky1

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Please don't single me out. Christine is just as guilty here. I have yet to see her say good things about it like you have here.

But time will certainly tell. I heard that it's supposed to hit store shelves today, so I am going to go play with one today (hopefully at Best Buy or someplace like that).

Its not coming out today it comes out 10/13th it got push back, i Also contacted razer and they said 10/13. heres what they said

Hi,

Production for the Razer BlackWidow has hit a bit of a snag and is taking a wee bit longer than we projected, and thatâ€™s why the change in the release date.
We are currently preparing a mass email to be sent to all customers who preordered the Razer BlackWidow before the shipping date was changed.
The new shipping date is currently 13th of October for all orders.

Apologies for any inconvenience caused.


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gordesky1* 
*The new shipping date is currently 13th of October for all orders.*




GAAHHH THE ANGER!
I can't believe I have to wait a whole more month, for crying out LOUD


----------



## gordesky1

Yep it sucks, i hate waiting for stuff too come out







But than again maybe they found problems and making them right.

Oh and for the ones that say its overpriced, I don't think its overpriced one bit sense the features it has like a led under each key like the deck which that alone ups the price, Features like the macros which does comes in handy with out using any software. Me i wouldn't really get any used out of the blacklits because ever sense i got my first mech which is my abs m1 i hardly look at the keys now, But its nice too have and look at hehe, Oh and the usb on it that will come in handy for me sense i could plug in my mouse their and wrap up the cord so it doesn't get damage.

And for quality we wont know that either till when people start getting their boards, But Maybe they looking what people seeing with the production model about crooked keys and stuff and maybe thats why they push back the date too another month too fix some stuff.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frickfrock99* 


gaahhh the anger!
I can't believe i have to wait a whole more month, for crying out loud























lol


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But now the Cherry MX Blues are supposed to be somewhat of an imitation, although they're nowhere near as loud, and they require a little less force to actuate (they're noticeably softer, but not by a significant amount).

They're also less reliable, less tactile, and sound and feel rather plasticky. The mechanism is also rather bizarre, which leads to the 'fire key issue', and an old Blue Cherry keyboard feels nowhere near as good as an equally old buckling spring one of comparable condition. Win some, lose some.


----------



## Maytan

Out of curiosity, what is IBM's keyboard matrix like? Is there a diagram or anything out there?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Out of curiosity, what is IBM's keyboard matrix like? Is there a diagram or anything out there?

It's 2KRO IIRC, but actually does really well for gaming.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Out of curiosity, what is IBM's keyboard matrix like? Is there a diagram or anything out there?

2KRO as pointed out above. I've done a lot of gaming on various Model M designs both new and old and I've never ran into serious issues with any FPS games I've played.

AFAIK, Cherry, and many other manufacturers use the same matrix style on their keyboards.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
2KRO as pointed out above. I've done a lot of gaming on various Model M designs both new and old and I've never ran into serious issues with any FPS games I've played.

AFAIK, Cherry, and many other manufacturers use the same matrix style on their keyboards.

I'm not really worried about gaming, I rarely need to press more than two keys at once. Though, there may be some situations where I DO get use out of my mouse buttons. (IE: Strafing while moving forward and wanting to reload, or moving forward while crouching and wanting to reload, etc.)


----------



## LuNa

Can anyone suggest me a good Gaming Keyboard ...
Black Cherry MX Switches prefferable ...
Thanx in advance


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LuNa* 
Can anyone suggest me a good Gaming Keyboard ...
Black Cherry MX Switches prefferable ...
Thanx in advance

Deck Legend Ice, Toxic, or Fire Linear

Filco Majestouch Linear Touch NRKO

SteelSeries 7G

SteelSeries 6Gv2


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LuNa* 
Can anyone suggest me a good Gaming Keyboard ...
Black Cherry MX Switches prefferable ...
Thanx in advance

Previous poster already helped you, but I've got to ask; does your name have anything to do with Park Sun Young?


----------



## LuNa

MAYTAN...You are the FunnyBoy of that Thread or what !


----------



## TurboHertz

http://www.overclock.net/computer-pe...nted-caps.html
I can haz help?


----------



## Exidous

So I have finally had it with the rubber dome keyboards. FYI the Roccat Valo is HORRIBLE at repeating what I type. It was worst when I first got it but they fixed most of it with a driver update however it still misses keys. :-/ I just preordered the blackwidow, it's my first razor product so hopefully it goes okay. The price isn't too bad compared to other mechanical keyboards either it seems.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Out of curiosity, what is IBM's keyboard matrix like? Is there a diagram or anything out there?

A bit of the IBM matrix and the more common failures are listed in the "Nkey Rollover Reference" here. On a Unicomp you get these potentially fatal failures (don't run diagonal and expect to do much).

WSE
WSQ
WSC
WAZ
WAX


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
A bit of the IBM matrix and the more common failures are listed in the "Nkey Rollover Reference" here. On a Unicomp you get these potentially fatal failures (don't run diagonal and expect to do much).

WSE
WSQ
WSC
WAZ
WAX

Thanks!

Let's see... I don't use X, Z, or C rarely ever; in any game I own. E is usually a use function, and Q is fast weapon switch in Source; or spotting in the rare event I play BC2.

The only thing I think might give me major problems is Q, but I don't think it'd be game breaking.

Are there any others I should know about? That link seems to not work.


----------



## lmnop

he meant to give you this link.


----------



## Maytan

So I take it I can't press three of any of the yellowish keys simultaneously? hmm.


----------



## ripster

Lmnop - thanks - link fixed.

By the way MANY keyboards act this same way. May be different sets of keys but the vast majority of keyboards have some 3 key failure mode.

Not sure what you mean by yellowish keys.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Lmnop - thanks - link fixed.

By the way MANY keyboards act this same way. May be different sets of keys but the vast majority of keyboards have some 3 key failure mode.

Not sure what you mean by yellowish keys.











Has yellowish keys.

And, I wasn't trying to imply I was thinking of it as a bad thing; just that I want to think this over before I reach a decision.


----------



## ripster

Oh, that was a screen shot of a particular combo - LSHIFT + CAPSlock + various keys. As you can see the combos LSHIFT-Capslock-Alphas all work on a Model M. Some don't on a Unicomp.

More of a programmers issue since Capslock is used as CTRL in the SUN world and so some CTRL-SHIFT combos wouldn't work on a Unicomp.

In other words not really relevant to most gaming situations.


----------



## Maytan

Ah, I see. Still, I'm trying to think about how many times in game I press more than two keys at once. So far, I've come up with about 4-5, but nothing too drastic.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Ah, I see. Still, I'm trying to think about how many times in game I press more than two keys at once. So far, I've come up with about 4-5, but nothing too drastic.

In TF2.

Crouch (CTRL) while walking forward and to the side (W+D) While reloading (R) While looking at the scoreboard (Tab) And talking to the team (V) While calling medic (E)

Ah... Full NKRO is a good thing... (6Gv2)


----------



## thiru

In BC2, moving diagonally (W+A) while crouching (CTRL) while looking at your score (TAB) while talking (ALT).

-> alt+tab = facepalm

Actually happens often to me. But ALT is such an easy key to press.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
In BC2, moving diagonally (W+A) while crouching (CTRL) while looking at your score (TAB) while talking (ALT).

-> alt+tab = facepalm

Actually happens often to me. But ALT is such an easy key to press.

Remap it to V. That's another easy key to press and to remember.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *De-Zant* 
In TF2.

Crouch (CTRL) while walking forward and to the side (W+D) While reloading (R) While looking at the scoreboard (Tab) And talking to the team (V) While calling medic (E)

Ah... Full NKRO is a good thing... (6Gv2)

In all honesty, I rarely press more than two keys at once in TF2. <_<

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
In BC2, moving diagonally (W+A) while crouching (CTRL) while looking at your score (TAB) while talking (ALT).

-> alt+tab = facepalm

Actually happens often to me. But ALT is such an easy key to press.

BC2, on the other hand; I do a lot of crouch strafing. Checking the score is irrelevant, that can wait; as can voice. Otherwise, legit fault.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *De-Zant* 
Remap it to V. That's another easy key to press and to remember.

I really prefer ALT. But I don't play BC2 anymore so hey.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
In all honesty, I rarely press more than two keys at once in TF2. <_<

BC2, on the other hand; I do a lot of crouch strafing. Checking the score is irrelevant, that can wait; as can voice. Otherwise, legit fault.

If you keylogged yourself I'm sure you'll realize you press way more keys at once than you think.

Voice or checking the score isn't irrelevant, when you're going to want to do it for x reason you won't remember "oh wait my keyboard can't do this" you're just gonna do it and wonder why you can't move.

Not that I know whether those keys would work with that keyboard.


----------



## ch_123

Maytan, if you want me to test some combinations with my Ms, let me know.


----------



## thisispatrick

Hey guys, I've contacted Razer through Jason Ark on here (Immensely helpful and friendly) and they agreed to send me a BW test unit. I'll be doing a review for both here and the site I work for.

Now before some of you guys go "UHH he isn't familiar with mechanical keyboards enough", (I've been here for quite a while now) and I'll be doing a lot of research. On the other hand, I also wanted to write the review with the perspective of a normal gamer. One that has probably been rubber doming all his life. Either or, look forward for my review.

If anyone has anything specific they want me to look for/test/whatever on the keyboard, let me know so I can answer your questions.


----------



## lmnop

disassemble and take pictures.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
disassemble and take pictures.

Not sure if I'm allowed to do it or something. I'll confirm with my contact after I receive it.

There is no foreplay with you is there Christine? You just want to jump to the good stuff.


----------



## lmnop

the only thing useful you can really tell us about it is the rollover. I want to see the underside of the PCB and Keycap.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the only thing useful you can really tell us about it is the rollover. I want to see the underside of the PCB and Keycap.


Yes mam.
Now you will have to wait my dear.


----------



## lmnop

if Razer won't allow you to disassemble it there is no point reviewing a sample.

think about all the generic reviews that will be published the day it's launched. "good packaging, it clicks, it has crappy drivers. the end." lol


----------



## ch_123

I'll one-up the Canuck - desolder the switch, open it, take detailed pictures of the guts. Let's see if it is in any way different to a regular Blue Cherry switch.

What mechanical keyboards do you currently have? Do you have something like a Das or Filco with blue switches to compare this thing against?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


I'll one-up the Canuck - desolder the switch, open it, take detailed pictures of the guts. Let's see if it is in any way different to a regular Blue Cherry switch.

What mechanical keyboards do you currently have? Do you have something like a Das or Filco with blue switches to compare this thing against?


Sadly I'm currently using the Das (brown switches). I wish I had something to compare it to honestly. I know I may not be the BEST person doing this review (for the technical crowd) but hey, this is for the general masses out there rubber doming.

Edit: As for the whole de-soldering thing, once again I'll have to check with my contact.


----------



## ch_123

I was being semi-facetious when I suggested that, but it would be very useful if someone actually did that so that claims that Razer has somehow enhanced the switch can be investigated.


----------



## lmnop

Cherry picked. some guy who's only job is to hold a Cherry MX Blue switch to his ear, actuate and toss it in a bin lol one click away from losing his sanity.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Cherry picked.












What you're describing sounds like basic QA. I'd expect nothing less if I was buying an $80 keyboard.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Voice or checking the score isn't irrelevant

Yes it is. There's no reason either of those activities can't wait. Sides, not like I can't just use Steam/Ventrilo and broadcast voice instead of push to talk. I mean, unless you're talking about VC'ing in pubs.... why would I do that again?

Quote:

when you're going to want to do it for x reason you won't remember "oh wait my keyboard can't do this" you're just gonna do it and wonder why you can't move.
It'd take a pretty stupid person to sit there and wonder why he's not moving. It's as easy to letting go of a key for a second to hit another one. It isn't really game breaking, as long as you give your priority to your movement.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Maytan, if you want me to test some combinations with my Ms, let me know.

Oh, sweet! I appreciate the offer, I might have a few for you.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Off-topic:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Yes it is. There's no reason either of those activities can't wait. Sides, not like I can't just use Steam/Ventrilo and broadcast voice instead of push to talk. I mean, unless you're talking about VC'ing in pubs.... why would I do that again?

Voice chat is absolutely critical in that game, unless that person is playing as a useless camping recon. If you're actually talking to a squad over Vent or something, you'd come to realize how important it is. If you get surprised from your right side, and your squad doesn't see it then they'd at least know because you were on vent to relay the info. Otherwise, they all die. One of my major gripes with BC2 is how quickly 90% of the players disregard voice chat and only aquire k/d stats. If you pay attention to the squads who are always on top (and usually have the same clan tags) you'll note that they are using vent (or equivalent) to stay informed. Even in a pub. . .


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Off-topic:
Voice chat is absolutely critical in that game, unless that person is playing as a useless camping recon. If you're actually talking to a squad over Vent or something, you'd come to realize how important it is. If you get surprised from your right side, and your squad doesn't see it then they'd at least know because you were on vent to relay the info. Otherwise, they all die. One of my major gripes with BC2 is how quickly 90% of the players disregard voice chat and only aquire k/d stats. If you pay attention to the squads who are always on top (and usually have the same clan tags) you'll note that they are using vent (or equivalent) to stay informed. Even in a pub. . .

You raise a good point, but what you don't seem to realize is how the situation effects the matter.

I don't see why anyone would care enough about a public game to not be able to wait a couple seconds to voice chat. In all honesty, the game isn't that fast paced.

Now playing a competitive match, I can understand wanting to relay information ASAP. In this context, your point is valid. Once again, Bad Company 2 is rather slow for a multiplayer game. It feels like a snails pace compared to something like Quake. Hell, even TF2 is faster than BC2. I don't think a matter of seconds is a deciding factor in a game such as Bad Company.

And besides, like I've already stated; there's services such as Steam, Ventrilo, etc. that you can use to broadcast voice. (instead of PTT)


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
You raise a good point, but what you don't seem to realize is how the situation effects the matter.

I don't see why anyone would care enough about a public game to not be able to wait a couple seconds to voice chat. In all honesty, the game isn't that fast paced.

Now playing a competitive match, I can understand wanting to relay information ASAP. In this context, your point is valid. Once again, Bad Company 2 is rather slow for a multiplayer game. It feels like a snails pace compared to something like Quake. Hell, even TF2 is faster than BC2. I don't think a matter of seconds is a deciding factor in a game such as Bad Company.

And besides, like I've already stated; there's services such as Steam, Ventrilo, etc. that you can use to broadcast voice. (instead of PTT)

You've never played in a clan. We don't hang out and camp, and we don't play any different just because we're on a pub server (unless we're trolling lol). We prefer to get into opposing territory as fast as possible and we're usually the only squad pushing out for mcoms while the other 90% of the server chooses to camp in a tree. . . I can't tell you how many times I've died because of a delayed voice chat (vent has almost a 1 sec delay from when you've said something to when the other people receive it).

Oh, and I'd rather have PTT enabled then have myself recorded while something dumb is being picked up by my mic. We've recorded a few things in our vent that people will never live down lol (such as a guys mom offering him a pillow and blankets, or a dudes sister asking him how her boobs looked in something)


----------



## thisispatrick

Seeing how you guys are talking about voice chat clients. May I recommend Mumble? I've been using Vent for quite a while and recently switched over to Mumble due to less delay. If you would like to try it out send me a PM, I have a server available.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
You've never played in a clan. We don't hang out and camp, and we don't play any different just because we're on a pub server (unless we're trolling lol). We prefer to get into opposing territory as fast as possible and we're usually the only squad pushing out for mcoms while the other 90% of the server chooses to camp in a tree. . .

I'm not a pub try-hard. <_< If you like that sort of thing, I don't blame you; but I'll leave the seriousness for the matches that require it. Pubs are more or less just casual/for cheesing.

Quote:

I can't tell you how many times I've died because of a delayed voice chat (vent has almost a 1 sec delay from when you've said something to when the other people receive it).
I'm going to have to apologize for what I'm about to say. I don't believe for one second that a one second delay of voice chat in BC2 has caused you to die 'countless times'. I'd be surprised if I saw it happen even once, to be quite honest. The maps are large, and the movement is rather slow. I just can't buy this.

Quote:

Oh, and I'd rather have PTT enabled then have myself recorded while something dumb is being picked up by my mic. We've recorded a few things in our vent that people will never live down lol (such as a guys mom offering him a pillow and blankets)
Preferences in all honesty.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I'm going to have to apologize for what I'm about to say. I don't believe for one second that a one second delay of voice chat in BC2 has caused you to die 'countless times'. I'd be surprised if I saw it happen even once, to be quite honest. The maps are large, and the movement is rather slow. I just can't buy this.

True stories:

Quote:

Walnuts watch out I threw a gren- never mind...

Quote:

Raptor turn around there's a knif- too late

Quote:

Don't go there there's a snip- well now you know

Quote:

Higgins throw a grenade on the MCOM he's gonna ar- oh well


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I'm going to have to apologize for what I'm about to say. I don't believe for one second that a one second delay of voice chat in BC2 has caused you to die 'countless times'. I'd be surprised if I saw it happen even once, to be quite honest. The maps are large, and the movement is rather slow. I just can't buy this.

Gotta disagree with you there. When my friends and I play, BC2 is too fast-paced for us to use complete sentences. Esp on 8v8+, we HAVE to shorten our voice comms to "sniper, hill" or "e, MCOM A", else it'd take too long to actually say and it'd be too late to react to the message. In short, that one second really does matter.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
True stories:

No offense to anyone, but can't people see from themselves? Warning about a Sniper in the area or someone arming M-COM is good point, though. Otherwise, grenade indicator, spotting, self-awareness, etc.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d* 
Gotta disagree with you there. When my friends and I play, BC2 is too fast-paced for us to use complete sentences.

I just can't picture this. :/


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I just can't picture this. :/

I usually play 8v8 or 16v16 games of Team Rush. For both defense and offense, it gets very hectic for me, esp when I get close to the MCOM









And nope, you can't see everything that goes on. Esp with urban maps, someone could just hide then pop out behind you and you can't spot him. And personally, I usually keep my eyes forward while going for an MCOM. That is where defenders tend to crowd.


----------



## thisispatrick

Repeating myself if you guys missed my earlier post, I have a Mumble server if you would like to test it out. I've compared it between Ventrillo and it performs better. (Delay-wise)

Just being nice if anyone cares at all.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d* 
And nope, you can't see everything that goes on. Esp with urban maps, someone could just hide then pop out behind you and you can't spot him.

You're not the only person that can see/spot.

Quote:

And personally, I usually keep my eyes forward while going for an MCOM. That is where defenders tend to crowd.
I tend to look around, as opposed to blindly rushing straight towards an area... No offense or anything; I'm not doubting you. I'm simply having a difficult time believing that this can be such a problem in this game.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Repeating myself if you guys missed my earlier post, I have a Mumble server if you would like to test it out. I've compared it between Ventrillo and it performs better. (Delay-wise)

Just being nice if anyone cares at all.

I'm definitely interested, thanks.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
No offense to anyone, but can't people see from themselves? Warning about a Sniper in the area or someone arming M-COM is good point, though. Otherwise, grenade indicator, spotting, self-awareness, etc.

I just can't picture this. :/

No, because we play hardcore (no indicators whatsoever and no spotting).

And btw, we used to play on a clan server that used Teamspeak... or at least was supposed to. Once I knifed 5 of their clan in a row. That's almost a whole freaking squad that could have survived if the first guy had screamed "Behind, knife!"


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
You're not the only person that can see/spot.
I tend to look around, as opposed to blindly rushing straight towards an area... No offense or anything; I'm not doubting you. I'm simply having a difficult time believing that this can be such a problem in this game.

It's not so much rushing blindly as it is unexpected things happen. This is a game where people do respond; sometimes in close proximity to you. I try to watch my sides and recon the place before I go in, but I find that

Looking behind me usually gets me killed
People sometimes respawn behind me
And if one of those people were to knife-rush me, I don't have a second to spare for my squadmate to warn me.

But again, it could be playing styles. I play an aggressive strategy. I find that it's much easier to win aggressively than being cautious.

I also should add that I play Hardcore


----------



## Maytan

Hardcore? Well, there's the entire difference right there fellas. I don't play HC. I thought it was the general consensus that regular (softcore, if you will) has better weapon balance?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Hardcore? Well, there's the entire difference right there fellas. I don't play HC. I thought it was the general consensus that regular (softcore, if you will) has better weapon balance?

If by better weapon balance you mean every weapon takes half a minute to kill someone, yeah.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
If by better weapon balance you mean every weapon takes half a minute to kill someone, yeah.

Well, last I heard HC servers were plagued with nothing but Recons.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
No offense to anyone, but can't people see from themselves? Warning about a Sniper in the area or someone arming M-COM is good point, though. *Otherwise, grenade indicator, spotting*, self-awareness, etc.

I just can't picture this. :/

You also obviously don't play hardcore. These things you speak of do not exist in HC BC2.

on topic: I love my deck and I'd play with my deck 24/7 if I could


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
You also obviously don't play hardcore. These things you speak of do not exist in HC BC2.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I don't play HC.

Derp.


----------



## Mas

wth has happened to this thread?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mas* 
wth has happened to this thread?

The usual derailing.


----------



## Mas

Ok well to bring it at least slightly back on topic, the filco with blue switches I ordered has just arrived









This is my first mechanical keyboard.

I love the feel and the sound, but I think it is going to take me a while to develop a lighter touch. I am having trouble not bottoming out every keystroke.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mas* 
wth has happened to this thread?

Happens all the time.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mas* 
Ok well to bring it at least slightly back on topic, the filco with blue switches I ordered has just arrived









This is my first mechanical keyboard.

I love the feel and the sound, but I think it is going to take me a while to develop a lighter touch. I am having trouble not bottoming out every keystroke.

Glad you like it. I myself have gotten a lot better at not bottoming out, but I still do it a lot.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mas* 
wth has happened to this thread?

Geekhack has a longstanding inability to stay on topic. You also have things like the borderline-overuse of pictures for comical purposes. As this thread was found by a Geekhack member, and regularly posted on by other Geekhack members, the culture spread. Thus you have something that is in effect a little corner of Geekhack contained within an overclocking forum.

I hear sociologists get serious boners over this kind of stuff.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Anybody get to test the BlackWindow Ultimate or BlackWindow from Razer at Best Buy yet?


----------



## liveify

Waiting for fedex to deliver my Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro2. I am replacing my Logitech G15 and ABS M1


----------



## ch_123

Great choice. Out of all the mechanicals I've tried, the HHKB is probably still my favorite all-rounder with it's great layout, small size and low-noise yet smooth switches.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
Anybody get to test the BlackWindow Ultimate or BlackWindow from Razer at Best Buy yet?

Nope but hopefully I'll be getting my review unit soon.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Geekhack has a longstanding inability to stay on topic. You also have things like the borderline-overuse of pictures for comical purposes. As this thread was found by a Geekhack member, and regularly posted on by other Geekhack members, the culture spread. Thus you have something that is in effect a little corner of Geekhack contained within an overclocking forum.

I hear sociologists get serious boners over this kind of stuff.

Agreed. I blame Geekhack for this thread.


----------



## Marin

Advantage of this thread is there's no Microsoft Windows.


----------



## Maytan

My items end on ebay today. If they sell well enough I'll pick up the Spacesaver shortly thereafter; if anyone cares.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Geekhack has a longstanding inability to stay on topic. You also have things like the borderline-overuse of pictures for comical purposes. As this thread was found by a Geekhack member, and regularly posted on by other Geekhack members, the culture spread. Thus you have something that is in effect a little corner of Geekhack contained within an overclocking forum.

I hear sociologists get serious boners over this kind of stuff.




















itsa model m!!



















I run Windows 3.1 on an IBM PC with an hhkb wtb mudkipz obama sucks

Feel a bit more homelike?


----------



## ripster

I propose a toast. Bartender, DoubleShots for everyone!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


They're also less reliable, less tactile, and sound and feel rather plasticky. The mechanism is also rather bizarre, which leads to the 'fire key issue', and an old Blue Cherry keyboard feels nowhere near as good as an equally old buckling spring one of comparable condition. Win some, lose some.


What is the "fire key" issue?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mas*


wth has happened to this thread?


lol

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mas*


Ok well to bring it at least slightly back on topic, the filco with blue switches I ordered has just arrived









This is my first mechanical keyboard.

I love the feel and the sound, but I think it is going to take me a while to develop a lighter touch. I am having trouble not bottoming out every keystroke.


Congratulations!

If you want to avoid bottoming out while typing (it's almost impossible to avoid it while gaming), then hover your wrists while typing. But experiment with different heights ranging from the highest possible height to the lowest possible height without actually touching your wrists to the surface beneath them. Now, when you raise your wrists, raise them so that it's just like an imaginary string is pulling your wrists up (so, let your hands hang down a little). Also, try to type gently while doing this in order to maximize the experience.

If you give it enough time, then one day soon you will find yourself not bottoming out anymore. You might even stop bottoming out keys like the Spacebar too. I mean, you'll only get out of it the same amount of effort that you put into it.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


Anybody get to test the BlackWindow Ultimate or BlackWindow from Razer at Best Buy yet?


Nah. It has a new release data of October 13th now.


----------



## Mas

Thanks for the tips


----------



## Genkaz92

I have a few curiosity questions/description requests about the ever respected IBM model M, and a few other ones about mechanical keyboards in general.

1. How loud are the buckling springs compared to MX blacks? How much of a difference or contrast would a Deck 82 Ice user experience when noticing the loud nature of the buckling springs?

2. Unicomp appears to be selling the Customizer keyboards which are basically a duplicate of the IBM model M models except brand new. Apparently the Customizer keyboards have a lower quality level then their original predecessors, I was wondering by exactly how much they are lower, and how long would a brand new Customizer last compared to the original model M if two of them received the exactly identical amount of usage over a noticeable course of time, it is more of a curiosity thing then a direct requirement.

3. Does anyone here have any experience with buckling springs when it comes to gaming? how well do they preform in a genuinely intense gaming environment? Many individuals appear to state that MX blacks are virtually the optimum switches for gaming, due to them revolving themselves around full bottoming out rather then a tactile structure which virtually registers a key when it is only pressed halfway. As far as I am aware, buckling springs appear to be more on the tactile end then a linear end, it would be curious for me to know how comfortable they would theoretically be if someone used it to frequently play games.

4. Apparently the model M has an absolutely fantastic layout/ergonomics and provides an virtually superior typing experience compared to pretty much anything out there anywhere, also partially due to the buckling springs. I would appreciate if someone described their experience with it typing wise.

5.This question is more of a general mechanical keyboard related: I am a relatively new mechanical keyboard user, and migrated from a relatively mainstream rubber dome gaming keyboard, Sidewinder X6 to be exact. I have owned Deck 82 Ice for a few weeks, and so far I appear to be noticing a few things: Currently my typing speed appears to be slightly slower then usual while I also appear to be making slightly more mistakes then usual, I was curious about the average time it takes for such a keyboard immigrant as myself to become fully comfortable with the new technology and fully restore his typing to normal/possibly even improve it. I tested my typing speed, and it appeared to be around 64-68 WPM, while usually it is 75-80 WPM (as far as I recall).

6. Last partially jokeful quesion. Would a backlit IBM model M with individual LED's for each key and exactly the same shape be considered a complete keyboard orgasm?


----------



## lmnop

Unicomp Buckling Springs are 5g lighter than IBM Buckling Spring, sound less pingy and rated for 25 million strokes.

do BBS games count?







I don't think you will have any problems gaming with Buckling Springs except for the noise your Microphone will pick up not to mention significant others.

the build quality is very good. see The Model M - Black Label vs. Blue Label vs. Unicomp - Did Quality Decline?? at geekhack.

I think you need to figure out if the layout is slowing you down or the Cherry MX Black switch before you buy another mechanical keyboard.

I think there would be some challenges illuminating a Model M.

I am sure ch will be happy to answer your other questions.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I think there would be some challenges illuminating a Model M.


I was being extremely theoretical and jokeful about it, I am aware that it would probably not be the easiest mod for various reasons.


----------



## lmnop

why don't you pick up a Model M they are only $10 on eBay. I seen a brand new Model M 122 Key Terminal for $39.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


why don't you pick up a Model M they are only $10 on eBay. I seen a brand new Model M 122 Key Terminal for $39.


I would appreciate if you gave me a few exact links, I suppose you were correct about the "Impulse" thing. I am genuinely interested in examining that thing, plus having a second ever lasting keyboard would never hurt I suppose.


----------



## lmnop

query "IBM Model M" on eBay. IBM Model M and Dell AT101W are in high circulation. sometimes people will give you one for free if your nice.

I did suggest you buy a Das Model S Professional with Cherry MX Blue switches to type. Deck Keyboards especially the 82 are meant for gaming not typing.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mas*


Thanks for the tips










You're welcome!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genkaz92*


I have a few curiosity questions/description requests about the ever respected IBM model M, and a few other ones about mechanical keyboards in general.

1. How loud are the buckling springs compared to MX blacks? How much of a difference or contrast would a Deck 82 Ice user experience when noticing the loud nature of the buckling springs?

2. Unicomp appears to be selling the Customizer keyboards which are basically a duplicate of the IBM model M models except brand new. Apparently the Customizer keyboards have a lower quality level then their original predecessors, I was wondering by exactly how much they are lower, and how long would a brand new Customizer last compared to the original model M if two of them received the exactly identical amount of usage over a noticeable course of time, it is more of a curiosity thing then a direct requirement.

3. Does anyone here have any experience with buckling springs when it comes to gaming? how well do they preform in a genuinely intense gaming environment? Many individuals appear to state that MX blacks are virtually the optimum switches for gaming, due to them revolving themselves around full bottoming out rather then a tactile structure which virtually registers a key when it is only pressed halfway. As far as I am aware, buckling springs appear to be more on the tactile end then a linear end, it would be curious for me to know how comfortable they would theoretically be if someone used it to frequently play games.

4. Apparently the model M has an absolutely fantastic layout/ergonomics and provides an virtually superior typing experience compared to pretty much anything out there anywhere, also partially due to the buckling springs. I would appreciate if someone described their experience with it typing wise.

5.This question is more of a general mechanical keyboard related: I am a relatively new mechanical keyboard user, and migrated from a relatively mainstream rubber dome gaming keyboard, Sidewinder X6 to be exact. I have owned Deck 82 Ice for a few weeks, and so far I appear to be noticing a few things: Currently my typing speed appears to be slightly slower then usual while I also appear to be making slightly more mistakes then usual, I was curious about the average time it takes for such a keyboard immigrant as myself to become fully comfortable with the new technology and fully restore his typing to normal/possibly even improve it. I tested my typing speed, and it appeared to be around 64-68 WPM, while usually it is 75-80 WPM (as far as I recall).

6. Last partially jokeful quesion. Would a backlit IBM model M with individual LED's for each key and exactly the same shape be considered a complete keyboard orgasm?


The Cherry MX Black keyswitch itself doesn't make a sound whereas the Buckling Spring makes a loud click which many people find to be very satisfying. Any sound beyond that is the sound of bottoming out and is considered to be "clacky".

It sounds to me like the Deck is slowing you down due to the Cherry MX Blacks. Perhaps a keyboard with the Cherry MX Browns or Blues might suit you better.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


What is the "fire key" issue?


The moving actuation point issue.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genkaz92*


1. How loud are the buckling springs compared to MX blacks? How much of a difference or contrast would a Deck 82 Ice user experience when noticing the loud nature of the buckling springs?


My initial reaction would be to say "definitely louder", however, listening to Youtube videos, black cherries are surprisingly loud. Then again, a lot of youtube videos suck, so they might be meaningless.

Quote:



2. Unicomp appears to be selling the Customizer keyboards which are basically a duplicate of the IBM model M models except brand new. Apparently the Customizer keyboards have a lower quality level then their original predecessors, I was wondering by exactly how much they are lower, and how long would a brand new Customizer last compared to the original model M if two of them received the exactly identical amount of usage over a noticeable course of time, it is more of a curiosity thing then a direct requirement.


The quality drop is largely a superficial thing - the plastic is a bit lower grade, and the weight of the steel backplate is a bit lower. In terms of typing feel, they're largely identical.

Quote:



3. Does anyone here have any experience with buckling springs when it comes to gaming? how well do they preform in a genuinely intense gaming environment? Many individuals appear to state that MX blacks are virtually the optimum switches for gaming, due to them revolving themselves around full bottoming out rather then a tactile structure which virtually registers a key when it is only pressed halfway. As far as I am aware, buckling springs appear to be more on the tactile end then a linear end, it would be curious for me to know how comfortable they would theoretically be if someone used it to frequently play games.


I'm not a serious 'gamer', but I do play a good few FPS and RTS games now and then, sometimes on my buckling spring keyboard. I have no issues with them, and I can't image how linear Cherry switches would make me better.

Quote:



4. Apparently the model M has an absolutely fantastic layout/ergonomics and provides an virtually superior typing experience compared to pretty much anything out there anywhere, also partially due to the buckling springs. I would appreciate if someone described their experience with it typing wise.


It doesn't have many ergonomic features that most other keyboards do except perhaps the curved arrangement of the keys. As for typing experience, you get excellent tactile feedback and the sound feedback too.

Quote:



5.This question is more of a general mechanical keyboard related: I am a relatively new mechanical keyboard user, and migrated from a relatively mainstream rubber dome gaming keyboard, Sidewinder X6 to be exact. I have owned Deck 82 Ice for a few weeks, and so far I appear to be noticing a few things: Currently my typing speed appears to be slightly slower then usual while I also appear to be making slightly more mistakes then usual, I was curious about the average time it takes for such a keyboard immigrant as myself to become fully comfortable with the new technology and fully restore his typing to normal/possibly even improve it. I tested my typing speed, and it appeared to be around 64-68 WPM, while usually it is 75-80 WPM (as far as I recall).


Black Cherry switches are supposedly terrible for typing on due to stiffness and lack of tactility. I can type as fast on my buckling spring keyboards as fast as any other decent keyboard I have.

Here is a cheap Model M from a good seller.


----------



## lmnop

right on time lol


----------



## ch_123

We aim to please.


----------



## lmnop

I don't know if I would pay that much for a Model M.


----------



## ch_123

Why not?


----------



## TurboHertz

What is the definition of "linear" and tactile"?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TurboHertz*


What is the definition of "linear" and tactile"?


http://www.deckkeyboards.com/keyswitches.php

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Why not?


the IBM Model M is high in circulation I wouldn't pay more than $10 for it. it's a 1995 model and the faceplate is a bit mucky.


----------



## TurboHertz

Okay, I like tactile.


----------



## GeforceGTS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the IBM Model M is high in circulation, it's a 1995 model, I wouldn't pay more than $10 for a used Model M and the faceplate looks a bit mucky.


They go for over Â£40 on ebay in the UK









I've been keeping my eye out for one or any other cheapish mechanical keyboard on there for a while so I can try some different switches and it's almost impossible to grab a bargain D: If I spot something half decent then google it I end up at a geekhack thread and they probably end up buying it


----------



## lmnop

I know









hopefully things will change in a couple years when more mechanical keyboards are available in the retail channels.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


the IBM Model M is high in circulation I wouldn't pay more than $10 for it. it's a 1995 model and the faceplate is a bit mucky.


A lot of the Model Ms out there are in terrible internal condition. At least that guy sells ones that are a good condition.

And yes, it's a 1995 model. That's why it's not about three times the price it is


----------



## lmnop

I don't think I would rag too much if it was in poor condition for $10. look at this one that sold on eBay


----------



## ch_123

That's a pretty good deal for $9.

The issue is that stuff like that comes and goes. At least the seller I linked is a consistent supplier at relatively consistent prices.

Besides, is $20 really too much for a good keyboard?


----------



## lmnop

of course not. but $50? he might as well spend the extra on the Unicomp Customizer. I only suggested he pick up a IBM Model M because it's cheap and would tell him if it's the Deck 82 layout or Cherry MX Black switch slowing him down.


----------



## hometoast

I just got delivery of my Scorpius M10. Oh how wonderful it feels when coming from the Logitech G11 I have. (btw... it's FS here)


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hometoast*


I just got delivery of my Scorpius M10. Oh how wonderful it feels when coming from the Logitech G11 I have. (btw... it's FS here)


nice. congratulations


----------



## ch_123

$50? I'm confused... the one I linked is $20.


----------



## KipH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


$50? I'm confused... the one I linked is $20.


+$40 international shipping!


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


$50? I'm confused... the one I linked is $20.


it's $20 but I had it set to Canada so the shipping was $29.99. US is $10


----------



## ch_123

Ohhh right.

Why do I always assume people on the internet are from the US?


----------



## lmnop

what about this one or this one.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


what about this one or this one.


On one of them it says "Interface cable is not PS2 but an unknown port -- looks like a female PS2 port." What is that...?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hometoast*


I just got delivery of my Scorpius M10. Oh how wonderful it feels when coming from the Logitech G11 I have. (btw... it's FS here)


I figured you'd like the board Toasty.


----------



## hometoast

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I figured you'd like the board Toasty.










I also got the AT101W off ebay, but it's definitely a bit stiffer than the M10.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hometoast*


I also got the AT101W off ebay, but it's definitely a bit stiffer than the M10.


You scored the AT101W? For how much?

Also, you get OCN Keycaps for them yet?


----------



## hometoast

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


You scored the AT101W? For how much?

Also, you get OCN Keycaps for them yet?










$22 shipped. Found one for $15 shipped like an hour later. oh well.

And no keycaps yet.


----------



## lmnop

I think it's a PS/2 adapter connected. not a good picture.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I think it's a PS/2 adapter connected. not a good picture.


So going to need something like this correct?


----------



## ch_123

First one you linked is a rubber dome.


----------



## lmnop

your right. that pikey!


----------



## thisispatrick

Wait scratch that, going to need a male to male PS2 adapter...


----------



## ch_123

Ask the seller is the cable is removable. If it is, get the keyboard and get an SDL cable off ebay (you can get them for around $10). If it's not, then there's something rather odd about the keyboard...


----------



## IBuyJunk

Is a Cherry ML4400 mechanical? Are they good for typing?

I just got one of the compaq trackball keyboards with some sort of cherry switches. Junkpiles at work FTW! Makes my job even more fun now that I can use one of these at work!


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *IBuyJunk*


Is a Cherry ML4400 mechanical? Are they good for typing?

I just got one of the compaq trackball keyboards with some sort of cherry switches. Junkpiles at work FTW! Makes my job even more fun now that I can use one of these at work!


yes. Cherry ML switches. Cherry's version of a scissor switch in a laptop. 3mm travel distance, 1.5mm actuation at 52g. tactile, non-clicky.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Ask the seller is the cable is removable. If it is, get the keyboard and get an SDL cable off ebay (you can get them for around $10). If it's not, then there's something rather odd about the keyboard...


I picked those out at random. lowest to highest.


----------



## Genkaz92

In all honesty, Ch appeared to have picked virtually the cheapest model M out there that can be purchased immediately, plus I do not think that purchasing a 1995 version would cause so many problems if it is atleast remotely similar to the supposedly better earlier version of the board. Generally I am planning on purchasing that one, I would pay 12 bucks for shipping which would make this board cost 32 bucks total, which is quite decent in my opinion.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hometoast*


$22 shipped. Found one for $15 shipped like an hour later. oh well.

And no keycaps yet.


Not bad, I think I paid $25 shipped for my AT101W. 
That's a solid deal man.

AND GET THOSE KEYCAPS! Fewl.


----------



## hometoast

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Not bad, I think I paid $25 shipped for my AT101W. 
That's a solid deal man.

AND GET THOSE KEYCAPS! Fewl.










where? seems the thread is closed.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hometoast* 
where? seems the thread is closed.

http://www.overclock.net/overclock-n...eyre-here.html

Or you can just go to TankGuys directly to order


----------



## lmnop

Fentek is selling Trucker Girl.

Double Shot
Cherry MX
Alps
2 for $8.95 / 4 for $15.95 / 6 for $21.95. Free Shipping.










Deck used to have Trucker Girl


----------



## thiru

Man I want all these custom keycaps... but buying them one by one is expensive!


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Man I want all these custom keycaps... but buying them one by one is expensive!

You get get a quote from them with all your specifications and what not. Still going to be expensive but better than buying one by one.


----------



## IBuyJunk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Not bad, I think I paid $25 shipped for my AT101W.
That's a solid deal man.

AND GET THOSE KEYCAPS! Fewl.









I got an AT101 for $10 shipped.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 









I wouldn't want that on my keyboard... Too tacky imo.


----------



## lmnop

too tacky? Trucker Girl is legendary.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
too tacky? Trucker Girl is legendary.

Really now? Why's that?


----------



## lmnop

because I said so!

Deck version.









copyright the ripster corporation all rights reserved

think of all the things you could do with it.

you could create a shortcut with SharpKeys to open your porn stash and use Trucker Girl as the Keycap!


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
because I said so!

Deck version.









copyright the ripster corporation all rights reserved

think of all the things you could do with it.

you could create a shortcut with SharpKeys to open your porn stash and use Trucker Girl as the Keycap!

Excellent idea!... if I had a porn stash.

I think I'd prefer a key more suited to opening up my Korean Pop collection. Come to think of it, that isn't a bad idea. I could remap the function keys or numpad to play different artists/bands. f(x), 2NE1, etc.


----------



## Manyak

I _really_ want the Deck version


----------



## lmnop

who doesn't have a porn stash? I have over 60gb. see my desktop.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
who doesn't have a porn stash? I have over 60gb. see my desktop.

63.1GB? If you take away my games, I don't even have that much space used from my own files/pictures/videos/programs.


----------



## lmnop

I like to collect it. it's artistic.


----------



## Genkaz92

I will now be purchasing that model M.


----------



## ripster

Porn is Art when not in focus.









I kinda like the Pirate key too.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Porn is Art when not in focus.









I kinda like the Pirate key too.

omg..that is some true art there....


----------



## Mas

After having my mechanical for a day, I've come to the realisation that I will now need to buy a second one for work, because using this apple keyboard is the suck :/


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Porn is Art when not in focus.









I kinda like the Pirate key too.

The







Key is awesome. I need 1.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mas* 
After having my mechanical for a day, I've come to the realisation that I will now need to buy a second one for work, because using this apple keyboard is the suck :/

I don't like Apple and this is another example why. Cheap quality, expensive price.


----------



## Mas

I don't like Apple either. I just have to work on it, because the boss is in love with everything Apple -_-


----------



## Manyak

Ripster - I want your trucker girl.


----------



## cchoy87

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
because I said so!

Deck version.









copyright the ripster corporation all rights reserved

think of all the things you could do with it.

you could create a shortcut with SharpKeys to open your porn stash and use Trucker Girl as the Keycap!

Where did you order that key lmnop? I have a Deck and I've been looking for custom keycaps.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cchoy87* 
Where did you order that key lmnop? I have a Deck and I've been looking for custom keycaps.

Deck used to make them.

Hell, they used to make all of these keys:


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mas* 
I don't like Apple either. I just have to work on it, because the boss is in love with everything Apple -_-

That's sad. He'll get over it eventually. There's still a chance apple will be his favorite forever.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mas* 
I don't like Apple either. I just have to work on it, because the boss is in love with everything Apple -_-

Get him a vintage Apple Extended Keyboard II with dampened white Alps. That should cheer him up.


----------



## ch_123

Truth be told, I would rate an AEK II and an Apple Aluminum about equal. They're both mediocre keyboards, there are much better alternatives, and there are much worse.


----------



## Mas

Yeah. This Apple keyboard isn't bad to type on really. I used to kind of like it. But after spending just a day on my new mechanical I'm finding it pretty meh.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Deck used to make them.

Hell, they used to make all of these keys:



















they stopped?


----------



## Manyak

yeah


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


yeah


awwwwwwww 
if they did might have have considered them for the next board


----------



## W4LNUT5

At least they still give out the skull and crossbones

I love mine (currently esc at the moment)


----------



## Maytan

^I can't take it anymore, Walnuts. What the dickens is your avatar? I can't figure it out...


----------



## Crazy9000

It's some guy in a gas mask.


----------



## Rebelord

Gonna take a stab at a mechanical for the first time. Just grabbed up a ABS M1 off newegg for $22+shipping.(Open Box). Hopefully it comes in one piece; lol.

Rebel


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


^I can't take it anymore, Walnuts. What the dickens is your avatar? I can't figure it out...


It's from some very well drawn internet comic. I forgot its name, though


----------



## Genkaz92

If I like the modem M that I purchased from Ebay, I might return the Deck due to it genuinely decreasing my typing performance. Apparently it has extremely weird key spacing/key size which results in me making more typing mistakes then usual. It also has relatively tough to push keys in general, I have a Dell AT101W and it's keys feel almost twice as light as on this thing.

On other hand perhaps I should simply give it time to truly get used to it, I only had it for 18 days (which still gives me the opportunity to return it with not questions asked). I honestly have absolutely no other complaints for this thing except for the fact that I am not used to it.

I am by no means being definite in my intentions of returning this thing, but am rather listing it as a possibility, I would be more then interested in hearing your opinions, perhaps it indeed takes a longer amount of time to get used to it then merely 18 days.

One more thing, I am still slightly concerned of how loud the model M could possibly be compared to MX blacks, I usually always wear headphones and will most likely not disturb anyone with it, but it is still an important thing to think about. I absolutely do not regret wasting 30 bucks on that model M though, it never hurts to have a backup/secondary extremely trustworthy keyboard.

I would like to say again that I have virtually no other complaints about the Deck, I love the feel of it, the performance of it, the appearance of it, and virtually everything else "of it.", Including the wonderful sound that the keys make.

In all honesty I am already significantly better at typing on it compared to when I just got it, perhaps I am just being paranoid or impatient, or both. Afterall, the two walls of text that I cooked up for this thread so far were typed on the Deck.


----------



## lmnop

I sent you a link to a video a couple weeks ago do you remember?


----------



## ch_123

Use Ripster's one

Adjust the volume so that when you play the G5 mouse clip, it sounds as loud as your mouse does. The top sound file - the 1391401 is probably as close to the one you'd get from eBay.

When you talk about disturbing others, how far away are these other people? You definitely wouldn't want to use one if you're sharing the room with someone for example.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I sent you a link to a video a couple weeks ago do you remember?






Yes ofcourse, my apologies.

The Customizer actually sounds only slightly louder then 7G, the difference mostly appears to lie in the actual type of the sound rather then the loudness of it.


----------



## lmnop

like many others have said audio clips and videos vary, but what I like about that video in particular is the consistency. Marco showcases the most common mechanical key switches.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
like many others have said audio clips and videos vary, but what I like about that video in particular is the consistency. Marco showcases the most common mechanical key switches.

I do agree with the fact that quite often video based demonstrations such as that one do not present the sounds of the keyboards perfectly, but they do appear to give the general idea of the contrast, and of the actual sounds that they make.


----------



## coffeejunky

Well, my I-rocks KR-6230 arrived yesterday. I _really_ like it compared to my previous keyboards, the key recognition is fantastic, and it only takes the lightest of presses to type. My main problem so far is typing fast without bottoming out, I guess it's something I just need to get used to.

Also damn, it's noisy compared to my old scissor switch keyboards (particularly the Cherry Stream XT, which was virtually silent). It can be heard over the TV in the room next door (even if I'm not bottoming out). Oh well, my comfort on the PC > noise pollution.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *coffeejunky* 
Well, my I-rocks KR-6230 arrived yesterday. I _really_ like it compared to my previous keyboards, the key recognition is fantastic, and it only takes the lightest of presses to type. My main problem so far is typing fast without bottoming out, I guess it's something I just need to get used to.

Also damn, it's noisy compared to my old scissor switch keyboards (particularly the Cherry Stream XT, which was virtually silent). It can be heard over the TV in the room next door (even if I'm not bottoming out). Oh well, my comfort on the PC > noise pollution.

nice









I like the Feet and Keycap profile on the i-Rocks KR-6230.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
like many others have said audio clips and videos vary, but what I like about that video in particular is the consistency. Marco showcases the most common mechanical key switches.

When I listen to Ripster's clips, I feel like I'm typing on the keyboards. Youtube videos are of hugely variable quality and often don't really sound like what the keyboard sounds like at all.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
When I listen to Ripster's clips, I feel like I'm typing on the keyboards. Youtube videos are of hugely variable quality and often don't really sound like what the keyboard sounds like at all.

http://webwit.nl/input/kbsim/

happy?


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Anybody get to test the BlackWindow Ultimate yet now?


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
When I listen to Ripster's clips, I feel like I'm typing on the keyboards. Youtube videos are of hugely variable quality and often don't really sound like what the keyboard sounds like at all.

I did receive some of my impressions from the ones which managed to portray the model M's in a particularly loud manner, such as this one:


----------



## ch_123

Oh yeah, I remember seeing that video when I was getting my Unicomp and was like "Oh shiit". But in reality, it's nowhere near that bad.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
http://webwit.nl/input/kbsim/

happy?









A friend of mine in college, familiar with my love of IBM keyboards, showed me that link in a lecture. He was somewhat surprised when I pointed out that not only had I seen it before, but that I also knew the guy who made it...


----------



## lmnop

wow.. I made games in QBasic that were more interesting


----------



## lmnop

did you ever play BBS Games? remember Dope Wars and Trade Wars. used to play them after school


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
Anybody get to test the BlackWindow Ultimate yet now?

Patience dear Padawan, I am still waiting on Razer to send me the review unit. Trust me you'll know as soon as I get it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
did you ever play BBS Games? remember Dope Wars and Trade Wars. used to play them after school









I do. I feel old now...


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Patience dear Padawan, I am still waiting on Razer to send me the review unit. Trust me you'll know as soon as I get it.

I do. I feel old now...

What did they say to you? When I requested they said "There are a lot of people interested in this keyboard, blah blah, we'll see when it gets closer to launch". Did they give you actual confirmation that you'll be getting one?


----------



## hometoast

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
did you ever play BBS Games? remember Dope Wars and Trade Wars. used to play them after school









I now officially love you.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
What did they say to you? When I requested they said "There are a lot of people interested in this keyboard, blah blah, we'll see when it gets closer to launch". Did they give you actual confirmation that you'll be getting one?

I contacted Jason Ark via his email from his post on the Razer Mechanical Keyboard thread.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

oh, mother****er, I forgot to mention I was from OCN.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
oh, mother****er, I forgot to mention I was from OCN.









^^ Good luck!


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hometoast* 
I now officially love you.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
It's some guy in a gas mask.

Well, I knew that.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
It's from some very well drawn internet comic. I forgot its name, though









Ah, I see. Thanks.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
^I can't take it anymore, Walnuts. What the dickens is your avatar? I can't figure it out...


Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
It's from some very well drawn internet comic. I forgot its name, though









www.romanticallyapocalyptic.com/home


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
www.romanticallyapocalyptic.com/home

Hahahaha, that comic is pretty good. Is that really all drawn out?


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Hahahaha, that comic is pretty good. Is that really all drawn out?

http://www.romanticallyapocalyptic.com/info

Check the info. He uses an interesting combination of things to get it done. I just know its the best looking web comic out there. I especially love the one's when the captain goes to McDonalds. lmao


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
http://www.romanticallyapocalyptic.com/info

Check the info. He uses an interesting combination of things to get it done. I just know its the best looking web comic out there. I especially love the one's when the captain goes to McDonalds. lmao

Whoah, looks like he puts a good amount of work into them. I couldn't help but laugh at the debate about the moon landings with the skeleton.


----------



## hometoast

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Whoah, looks like he puts a good amount of work into them. I couldn't help but laugh at the debate about the moon landings with the skeleton.









wow... i just viewed/read the whole thing. it's twisted but I couldn't stop


----------



## W4LNUT5

It's my favorite webcomic ever. (even more so than QC)

New one's usually come out every 4-6 days, but he must be getting busy because it seems to be every few weeks now


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
It's my favorite webcomic ever. (even more so than QC)

New one's usually come out every 4-6 days, but he must be getting busy because it seems to be every few weeks now


Quote:

A new page comes out every 4-6 days. Unless I'm distracted with shooting nekked models, or painting another cover for a rock music band.
I'm sure he's very, very busy.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
I contacted Jason Ark via his email from his post on the Razer Mechanical Keyboard thread.


Quote:

One key distinction you've already pointed out is that we created the BlackWidow as a full-featured gaming keyboard first and foremost -- we're not going to satisfy everyone, but we never set out to design it that way - it was meant to be a gaming keyboard designed by gamers, for gamers! So just keep that in mind when you're doing the review.
Please check the keyboard using the Nkey Testing Process outlined here. Almost all keyboards can report a Maximum of 5 to 6 keys. These "gaming optimized" keyboards usually do pretty well with WASD gaming but fail at 3 key combos for ESDF users and Arrow cluster for lefties.


----------



## liveify

I just got my Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2.. I love it so far. The layout is going to take a little while to get used to but I LOVE typing on it.. I don't want to stop typing.

I would describe the feel of the keys as a extremely refined rubber dome keyboard, Its a very nice experience to type on. and the size of the keyboard is so awesome


----------



## yellowtoblerone

How do you like not having directional keys?


----------



## liveify

The keyboard has directional keys, there are just function keys.. Its not bad.


----------



## candy_van

Well I'm thinking of (finally) making the move to pick up a mechanical board!









I've looked at a bunch and I really like the XArmor U9BL, has good switches and nice features (cheesy I know, but I really like the included wrist wrest - not a fan of padded ones).
Would be used mostly for surf & game on the sig rig, any thoughts on this (should I consider some alternatives)?

Regarding the price/purchase of U9BL:

I can get it from iOne directly (meh price); the only online retailer they list is Fentek who is listing it for $150 shipped and I couldn't really find it anywhere else aside from those two.
Anyone deal with Fentek before (or know where else they're sold) or should I just suck it up and order it directly if I go for this model?


----------



## ch_123

Fentek is a good supplier, I haven't bought anything from them myself, but others have, and the person who runs it is very friendly (sometimes posts on Geekhack to announce new stuff and give information on their products)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
If I like the modem M that I purchased from Ebay, I might return the Deck due to it genuinely decreasing my typing performance. Apparently it has extremely weird key spacing/key size which results in me making more typing mistakes then usual. It also has relatively tough to push keys in general, I have a Dell AT101W and it's keys feel almost twice as light as on this thing.

That's due to the Cherry MX Blacks. What's happening is you're discovering why the Cherry MX Blacks are regarded to be the "worst" mechanical switch for typing.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
On other hand perhaps I should simply give it time to truly get used to it, I only had it for 18 days (which still gives me the opportunity to return it with not questions asked). I honestly have absolutely no other complaints for this thing except for the fact that I am not used to it.

I am by no means being definite in my intentions of returning this thing, but am rather listing it as a possibility, I would be more then interested in hearing your opinions, perhaps it indeed takes a longer amount of time to get used to it then merely 18 days.

I say keep the Deck as a gaming board and then get something else to compliment it which you use strictly for typing. Or, get a good keyboard that is a nice balance between both typing and gaming: many people feel that a good keyboard outfitted with the Cherry MX Browns falls into that category.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
One more thing, I am still slightly concerned of how loud the model M could possibly be compared to MX blacks, I usually always wear headphones and will most likely not disturb anyone with it, but it is still an important thing to think about. I absolutely do not regret wasting 30 bucks on that model M though, it never hurts to have a backup/secondary extremely trustworthy keyboard.

The Cherry MX Black keyswitch itself does not make any sound. Instead, any sound that is heard comes from bottoming out as well as the key popping back up. So, it's loosely related to the switch, but the switch itself doesn't click or anything: it's completely linear.

But the Model M is a clicky keyboard, and the clicks are loud. But that's the way the Buckling Spring keyswitch is.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
I would like to say again that I have virtually no other complaints about the Deck, I love the feel of it, the performance of it, the appearance of it, and virtually everything else "of it.", Including the wonderful sound that the keys make.f

In all honesty I am already significantly better at typing on it compared to when I just got it, perhaps I am just being paranoid or impatient, or both. Afterall, the two walls of text that I cooked up for this thread so far were typed on the Deck.

Maybe you're just over-thinking it or something. I mean, at the risk of sounding like the opposite of an enthusiast: at the end of the day, it is just a keyboard.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Yes ofcourse, my apologies.

The Customizer actually sounds only slightly louder then 7G, the difference mostly appears to lie in the actual type of the sound rather then the loudness of it.

The 7G uses the Cherry MX Blacks while the Customizer uses the Buckling Springs. The 7G is a non-clicky, non-tactile keyboard while the Customizer is a clicky and tactile board. If somebody were to type on the 7G while trying to avoid bottoming out (which could be difficult - I don't know), then it would certainly be quieter than a keyboard with the Buckling Springs.









The Customizer and 7G are two _very_ different keyboards.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
I did receive some of my impressions from the ones which managed to portray the model M's in a particularly loud manner, such as this one:






Yuck. There are actually much better video demonstrations of the Model M. Here is a YouTube search results page for "ibm model m keyboard"

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...+keyboard&aq=f

Go to town!


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Please check the keyboard using the Nkey Testing Process outlined here. Almost all keyboards can report a Maximum of 5 to 6 keys. These "gaming optimized" keyboards usually do pretty well with WASD gaming but fail at 3 key combos for ESDF users and Arrow cluster for lefties.

Will do


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

TwoCables told me the BlackWindow and BlackWindow Ultimate release date was pushed back all the way to October 13th.


----------



## frickfrock999

Does anybody know how loud Cherry MX blues are in comparison to rubber domes?

The only one I could find was Phae's video.

Is there a list out there that ranks all the switches for sound at all?


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Rubber domes aren't as quiet as I thought. This current Logitech keyboard I have is rubber dome (I didn't do research but you can tell by the feel after it hits the receivers or whatever they're called). I imagine Mechanical Cherry MX Blues to be a little louder because mechanical is just plastic hitting this sensitive piece of metal so a little louder. I don't really know but its a guess.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
TwoCables told me the BlackWindow and BlackWindow Ultimate release date was pushed back all the way to October 13th.

It is. It even says on their site.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frickfrock99* 
Does anybody know how loud Cherry MX blues are in comparison to rubber domes?

The only one I could find was Phae's video.

Is there a list out there that ranks all the switches for sound at all?

Here is a list of good sound recordings. There's a Logitech rubber dome recording amongst them. Should give you a good idea of the noise difference.

Quote:

The 7G uses the Cherry MX Blacks while the Customizer uses the Buckling Springs. The 7G is a non-clicky, non-tactile keyboard while the Customizer is a clicky and tactile board. If somebody were to type on the 7G while trying to avoid bottoming out (which could be difficult - I don't know), then it would certainly be quieter than a keyboard with the Buckling Springs.
But given that the blacks are going to be hard to not bottom out on, they end up being noisy keyboards to type on. It's like Black Alps - they are silent when you actuate them, but they bottom out hard and are nearly as loud as a Model M when you type on them. In many cases, the 'clicky' attribute is somewhat academic when you are considering how loud the keyboard is to type on in normal circumstances.


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Here is a list of good sound recordings. There's a Logitech rubber dome recording amongst them. Should give you a good idea of the noise difference.

Beautiful catch brother!

+rep


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frickfrock99* 
Does anybody know how loud Cherry MX blues are in comparison to rubber domes?

The only one I could find was Phae's video.

Is there a list out there that ranks all the switches for sound at all?

It is almost an unfair comparison because the Cherry MX Blue switch itself clicks. But when bottoming out, the sound can be quite different, usually depending on the keyboard.

I had the G15 prior to getting the Tactile Click, and even when not bottoming out, the Tactile Click makes more sound than the G15. It's not really _louder_, but it just makes more _sound_. But the sounds it makes are much more pleasing to my ears than the sounds that the G15 makes. However, since the G15 requires bottoming out due to it being a rubber dome board, it's easier for that keyboard to be louder and cheaper-sounding than a good mechanical keyboard.

When I first typed on the Tactile Click, my first thought was that it was like lightly tapping on a desk with long fingernails, or perhaps like walking around in Tap Dancing shoes. Each keystroke is accompanied by a subtle click, so when not bottoming out, it's just a flurry of satisfying clicks. Plus, the difference in feel is like comparing night to day: when typing on the G15, it's fine. But when typing on the Tactile Click, it's almost like the difference between drumming on a pillow vs. drumming on a really high-end, perfectly-tuned snare drum. Ask any drummer and they'll tell you that there's nothing that can beat the feeling of playing on a top-of-the-line snare drum that is perfectly tuned. Likewise, there's nothing like typing on a good mechanical keyboard; this includes the sounds that are produced by it!

But, have you been told about the issues that gamers have with the Cherry MX Blues when it comes to double-tapping?


----------



## thiru

I have to admit, that blue click sounds better every time I hear it.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
It is almost an unfair comparison because the Cherry MX Blue switch itself clicks. But when bottoming out, the sound can be quite different, usually depending on the keyboard.

Those recordings feature both bottoming out, and not-bottoming-out. In addition, most of the noise arguably comes from the clicker anyway, so the lack/addition of bottoming out isn't a game changing difference. Comparing the recordings to a recording of a rubber dome from the same source, you have a good idea of what you're getting into.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I have to admit, that blue click sounds better every time I hear it.

hehe this is exactly why I chose the Tactile Click. The more and more I listened to keyboards on YouTube, the more and more I loved the Cherry MX Blues. Fortunately for me, I don't have any trouble with this switch for gaming, so it was absolutely the best choice for me.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Those recordings feature both bottoming out, and not-bottoming-out. In addition, most of the noise arguably comes from the clicker anyway, so the lack/addition of bottoming out isn't a game changing difference. Comparing the recordings to a recording of a rubber dome from the same source, you have a good idea of what you're getting into.

This.

I remember there was a time several years ago when I was looking for a new keyboard. I would go to different stores like Best Buy and CompUSA and just type on all the different keyboards while trying to find one that was just as quiet as a good laptop keyboard. I mean, I didn't want any plastic-like sound at all: I just wanted a nearly dead-silent keyboard.

But now that I have the Tactile Click, I finally understand. In fact, I am considering the IBM Model M or the Customizer or SpaceSaver 104. But unfortunately, even though I'd enjoy it, it would be loud enough for my parents to hear and thus it could prove to be irritating for me. I mean, there'd be many times where they'd hear it and then say _"Oh, hi Tim! I didn't know you were awake! How are you?"_ and then want to start a conversation when I'm in the middle of something like a long reply here on OCN.


----------



## Maytan

What's Unicomps warranty? I can find literally no information regarding it other than the 30-day return policy.


----------



## ch_123

I worried about the buckling springs' noise when I was getting my first one. In reality, while they are louder than a Blue Cherry, I don't think they are loud enough such that if the Blue Cherries are not loud enough to disturb people, they would be, if you get me.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
What's Unicomps warranty? I can find literally no information regarding it other than the 30-day return policy.

18 months IIRC. Their customer service is also exemplary.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
18 months IIRC. Their customer service is also exemplary.

Oh sweet, that's not bad at all. Thanks.

You'd be surprised how hard it is to convince yourself to spend money on a keyboard when you already have one that's functioning perfectly. I hope to God I enjoy Buckling Springs.


----------



## ch_123

At $70, and given what they are and how well they're built, they're arguably the best value for money mechanical keyboard on the market. (in terms of ones from vendors as opposed to being bought second hand or the like)

BTW Twocables - there are mods for silencing the Model Ms, but they do interfere with tactility depending on how silent you want them to be.


----------



## Genkaz92

I know that I am being kind of repetitive, but would someone kindly describe their personal experiences with the model M? I am just curious what a bunch of people PERSONALLY think about it and whether they use it on regular practical basis.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
At $70, and given what they are and how well they're built, they're arguably the best value for money mechanical keyboard on the market. (in terms of ones from vendors as opposed to being bought second hand or the like)

I'm almost there, I'm just going to wait until my BCB comes in to really make the go ahead.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
I know that I am being kind of repetitive, but would someone kindly describe their personal experiences with the model M? I am just curious what a bunch of people PERSONALLY think about it and whether they use it on regular practical basis.

I use my ones a regular basis. What specifically do you want to know about them?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The Model M is my second- or third-favorite keyboard, and I've tried nearly a dozen. It's very satisfying for typing, the noise actually enhances the experience. It isn't as heavy to press as some people make it out to be, only marginally heavier than most rubber domes. The tactility feels great, better than any other keyswitch I've tried. It's ok for gaming, it won't help or hinder, and there's no hysteresis problems like with MX blues.

The big reason why I switched from the Model M was because of its size. It's extremely large and heavy. My next keyboard was the Compaq MX-11800, which wasn't great but did start my love affair with MX browns. Then the Cherry G80-8200 with browns, which was even bigger than the Model M but much quieter and had a lot of reprogrammability. And now I'm on the MX SPOS, which is smaller than a G80-8200, has MX browns, is black, and still has good reprogrammability. Took me a while to find one though, and I traded a $170 keyboard for it (though it was a free review sample).


----------



## ch_123

Size is definitely one of the big (pardon the pun) issues with buckling spring keyboards. Unicomp is supposedly working on a compact buckling spring keyboard, but at the rate they're going, they might come out with it in time for my funeral so that they can bury me with one.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Size is definitely one of the big (pardon the pun) issues with buckling spring keyboards. Unicomp is supposedly working on a compact buckling spring keyboard, but at the rate they're going, they might come out with in time for my funeral so that they can bury me with one.

That would make an excellent parting gift.


----------



## ch_123

On top of Phaedrus' list of good things about the Model M, I'd like to add the modability and serviceability of the design. All the parts are either simple to repair if you damage, or have replacement ones easily available from Unicomp or the Geekhack market. Custom keycaps can be made by Unicomp, and you can adjust the noise they make. They're also quite reliable due to the simple mechanism they use.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Size is definitely one of the big (pardon the pun) issues with buckling spring keyboards. Unicomp is supposedly working on a compact buckling spring keyboard, but at the rate they're going, they might come out with it in time for my funeral so that they can bury me with one.

What about the SpaceSaver 104? Or, are you referring to a Tenkeyless model?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
On top of Phaedrus' list of good things about the Model M, I'd like to add the modability and serviceability of the design. All the parts are either simple to repair if you damage, or have replacement ones easily available from Unicomp or the Geekhack market. Custom keycaps can be made by Unicomp, and you can adjust the noise they make. They're also quite reliable due to the simple mechanism they use.

Custom keycaps? Seriously? How much per key?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
What about the SpaceSaver 104? Or, are you referring to a Tenkeyless model?

Something smaller than average. They're making a buckling spring version of this at some point -










We've been waiting on it quite some time now









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Custom keycaps? Seriously? How much per key?

$2/key with a minimum order of $10 for printed ones, and the blank ones are cheaper (might be 50c or something) They're dyesub'd, but you're limited to black writing, and the quality is a bit inconsistent - the letters tend to be a bit all over the place, particularly if you want something non-standard printed on the keys. Here's a picture of my 'pimped' M13 -










You can see that the location of the letters on the lavender WASD keys is a bit wonky. However, if you can put up with that, it's quite good value for money. I'd imagine that custom Cherry/Alps keys have much larger minimum orders.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Wow. I like the second picture because of the colored up, down, left, and right keys.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
Wow. I like the second picture because of the colored up, down, left, and right keys.

Arrow keys.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Arrow keys.









Boy do I feel stupid but I never looked into keyboards and what each part's called but I still feel stupid.


----------



## ch_123

I was tempted to ask "Which up/down/left/right keys?" but I thought that some people might miss the joke...


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


I was tempted to ask "Which up/down/left/right keys?" but I thought that some people might miss the joke...


Yeah. Sorry. My vocabulary on keyboards are off. Again I never really care what's on my keyboard. As long as I can use is and that it's useful.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


$2/key with a minimum order of $10 for printed ones, and the blank ones are cheaper (might be 50c or something) They're dyesub'd, but you're limited to black writing, and the quality is a bit inconsistent - the letters tend to be a bit all over the place, particularly if you want something non-standard printed on the keys. Here's a picture of my 'pimped' M13 -

*snip*

You can see that the location of the letters on the lavender WASD keys is a bit wonky. However, if you can put up with that, it's quite good value for money. I'd imagine that custom Cherry/Alps keys have much larger minimum orders.


Those do look great; the lettering looks 'good enough' in my book. Especially since I didn't have anything standard in mind. Rather, keys labeling my Korean Pop collection.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
I use my ones a regular basis. What specifically do you want to know about them?

Just your general opinion about them in the sense of "I like specifically this, or I dislike specifically that or I find it to be a generally excellent keyboard"


----------



## ch_123

What Phaedrus said on the previous page pretty much sums up most of my opinions about them, except I can live with the size issue, particularly if using something like the Unicomp Spacesaver/Endurapro. They give pleasant tactile feedback, I don't find them stiff, the keyboards themselves are well built... I just wouldnt use one if I had to share the room with someone


----------



## Jalal

Someone here has a Deck and could compare the typing *feel* of it to another black cherry board? Would be very nice.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jalal* 
Someone here has a Deck and could compare the typing *feel* of it to another black cherry board? Would be very nice.

Technically if they are both black cherries, they'd feel the same. Only differences would be in the build quality and materials in the remainder of the keyboard. Otherwise a cherry black switch is a cherry black switch.


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


Someone here has a Deck and could compare the typing *feel* of it to another black cherry board? Would be very nice.


Cherry MX Blacks are Cherry MX Blacks. The feeling of the board will always be 99% because of the switches used - the rest because of the flex in the keyboard. The only really mentionable difference except for that is the sound, but that doesn't really change the typing experience of the MX Blacks that much.
They suck for typing. Get some MX Browns instead - I've heard they should be a good middle grund between MX Blues and MX Blacks when it comes to typing.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


Boy do I feel stupid but I never looked into keyboards and what each part's called but I still feel stupid.


Don't feel stupid, but instead, feel smarter now that you know.


----------



## Phaedrus2129




----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Don't feel stupid, but instead, feel smarter now that you know.










OK then.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*












Thank you. Just what I needed. Saved it.


----------



## TwoCables

I thought the actual technical term was "keypad". "Number pad" and "numpad" just sound stupid to me.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

How do people like the happy hacking keyboards that doesn't have numpad or directional keys?


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*







How do people like the happy hacking keyboards that doesn't have numpad or directional keys?


Because numpads is the stupid way, unless you ONLY type numbers - otherwise the travel time between going to the numpad and back again takes ages and you might as well just get used to the number row instead. Directional keys I can understand, but aren't essential - remap them to shift+alt+IJKL with AutoHotKey or something like that if you really need them.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


Because numpads is the stupid way, unless you ONLY type numbers - otherwise the travel time between going to the numpad and back again takes ages and you might as well just get used to the number row instead. Directional keys I can understand, but aren't essential - remap them to shift+alt+IJKL with AutoHotKey or something like that if you really need them.


I use my num-pad all the time.


----------



## liveify

Brand new PFU HHKB Fedex brought me


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*







How do people like the happy hacking keyboards that doesn't have numpad or directional keys?


That keyboard looks weird to me and seriously? A trackball? How old is this video? Its also missing the Function Row, Edit Block, Arrow Keys, and Number Pad. That keyboard = 4 letters = F + A + I + L = FAIL.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


That keyboard looks weird to me and seriously? A trackball? How old is this video? Its also missing the Function Row, Edit Block, Arrow Keys, and Number Pad. That keyboard = 4 letters = F + A + I + L = FAIL.


"Its made for a kiosk"
I see these in my college. Pitiful to type on.


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I use my num-pad all the time.










I realize my comment seems rather troll-ish - but I simply don't see the point in a numpad. The only time I think I've ever used it is for games that have 8-way navigation - in this instance, Angband. Except sometimes I use the numpad enter for going through dialogs quickly without moving my left hand (it's reachable from my mouse).


----------



## Jalal

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
Technically if they are both black cherries, they'd feel the same. Only differences would be in the build quality and materials in the remainder of the keyboard. Otherwise a cherry black switch is a cherry black switch.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
Cherry MX Blacks are Cherry MX Blacks. The feeling of the board will always be 99% because of the switches used - the rest because of the flex in the keyboard. The only really mentionable difference except for that is the sound, but that doesn't really change the typing experience of the MX Blacks that much.
They suck for typing. Get some MX Browns instead - I've heard they should be a good middle grund between MX Blues and MX Blacks when it comes to typing.

The reason i ask is because there was some guy who compared the Deck 82 to the Raptor K1, and said the Deck feels more comfortable/better to type on. The Raptor is plate mounted i think due to its he high weight, the Deck 82 PCB mounted from what i have read. So that might be it.

But you really don't think that it is more fun typing on the Deck Legend than a Steelseries 6Gv2?

About cherry browns. I tried cherry clears and they were nothing special. Now i am using the g84-4100 (got it for a bargain), and if the browns are as exciting as this, then they are too boring. I don't care soo much about quality, but about having fun hitting the keys. I tried the blacks and i know that i like them more.
Maybe someone else has really used several cherry black boards and can tell me more.

btw it is very hard to get used to this (g84-4100) layout, typing became kinda okay, but gaming (rts), i think it'll take weeks. This is good to know, because i was planning on the Deck 82 which has the same layout.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jalal* 
The reason i ask is because there was some guy who compared the Deck 82 to the Raptor K1, and said the Deck feels more comfortable/better to type on. The Raptor is plate mounted i think due to its he high weight, the Deck 82 PCB mounted from what i have read. So that might be it.

But you really don't think that it is more fun typing on the Deck Legend than a Steelseries 6Gv2?

About cherry browns. I tried cherry clears and they were nothing special. Now i am using the g84-4100 (got it for a bargain), and if the browns are as exciting as this, then they are too boring. I don't care soo much about quality, but about having fun hitting the keys. I tried the blacks and i know that i like them more.
Maybe someone else has really used several cherry black boards and can tell me more.

btw it is very hard to get used to this (g84-4100) layout, typing became kinda okay, but gaming, i think it'll take weeks. This is good to know, because i was planning on the Deck 82 which has the same layout.

I haven't tried typing on either, so I wouldn't know. Typing on the key itself is pretty easy to guess though - they're the same switch, so they should feel pretty much the same.


----------



## Jalal

I wouldve just try the Deck out and eventually return it, but there is a reason i can't that easily. Too bad.


----------



## Marin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I use my num-pad all the time.









What's a num-pad?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
I realize my comment seems rather troll-ish - but I simply don't see the point in a numpad. The only time I think I've ever used it is for games that have 8-way navigation - in this instance, Angband. Except sometimes I use the numpad enter for going through dialogs quickly without moving my left hand (it's reachable from my mouse).

hehe, for me, the ability to just quickly slap Enter on the keypad with my thumb when that proves to be the fastest option makes the keypad an extremely essential part of my system.

I also use Keypad 0 for performing the 180Â° turn in Mirror's Edge.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
I realize my comment seems rather troll-ish - but I simply don't see the point in a numpad. The only time I think I've ever used it is for games that have 8-way navigation - in this instance, Angband. Except sometimes I use the numpad enter for going through dialogs quickly without moving my left hand (it's reachable from my mouse).

Troll! Moderate yourself!

I think numpad is needed. For example if you're doing data entry for statistical or genetic analysis, or any grad school work it is just so crucial. The other main issue is for my otaku filco, its hard to know if you've made a mistake before the entry in banking websites etc where you only have 3 chances to get it right. The things you type, like credit card numbers are blacked out during entry. You say hey if you cant get your password/credit card number right in 3 tries then you need to up your skills. However it isn't like that. There are security questions and other things that clog up each entry that you need to have the correct numbers in the first try, combine that with when you've forgotten something like a answer makes a numpad, something much more accurate and precise very useful for not only daily computer usage but data entry applications as well.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


About cherry browns. I tried cherry clears and they were nothing special. Now i am using the g84-4100 (got it for a bargain), and if the browns are as exciting as this, then they are too boring. I don't care soo much about quality, but about having fun hitting the keys. I tried the blacks and i know that i like them more.


I have no idea what switches the G84-4100 use, but based on your posts thus far, I'm going to assume Blacks? Well, I currently have a keyboard with Browns; and while I do like the low required force, I really wouldn't want any less tactility. In fact, right now I want more. I think the Browns would be much more 'exciting' for you.


----------



## TwoCables

So, why aren't you guys calling it a "keypad"?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

ML keyboards use ML switches, which are low profile. Imagine an MX brown with the first half of its travel cut off, the force raised a bit, and it sticks if you hit it on a corner.

If you want "exciting" typing get an IBM Model F PC AT.

*CLACK CLACK CLICKACLACKCLACKKKRACK*(spacebar)


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


So, why aren't you guys calling it a "keypad"?


It has lots of names. Numpad, keypad, tenkey, "that number area" etc. Call it whatever you want - people will understand you either way


----------



## Marin

What is it?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I'm going to keep posting this til everyone gets it.


----------



## Marin

I can't find it on my keyboard.


----------



## TwoCables

But my question is simple: why isn't it called a keypad? It doesn't just have numbers on it.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But my question is simple: why isn't it called a keypad? It doesn't just have numbers on it.


Because it's numbers & number-related buttons.

It's a simple calculator on your keyboard.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Because it's numbers & number-related buttons.

It's a simple calculator on your keyboard.


But we call the entire unit a keyboard, so why isn't it called a keypad? It's a little pad, and it has keys on it just like the entire thing is a board with keys on it.

Back when I learned how to type, the book I used called it a "keypad".







Besides, I think it's slightly easier to say "keypad" since "numpad" means the lips have to come together twice instead of just once.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But we call the entire unit a keyboard, so why isn't it called a keypad? It's a little pad, and it has keys on it just like the entire thing is a board with keys on it.

Back when I learned how to type, the book I used called it a "keypad".







Besides, I think it's slightly easier to say "keypad" since "numpad" means the lips have to come together twice instead of just once.


Because *I* said its a numpad. /story


----------



## Maytan

I personally say numpad.


----------



## gonX

^same. Numpad all the way.

Because it's a *num*eric key*pad*. But I won't slaughter anyone calling it a keypad.


----------



## Jalal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


ML keyboards use ML switches, which are low profile. Imagine an MX brown with the first half of its travel cut off, the force raised a bit, *and it sticks if you hit it on a corner*.


Confirmed. This really is a big downside.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


^same. Numpad all the way.

Because it's a *num*eric key*pad*. But I won't slaughter anyone calling it a keypad.


So then "keypad" for short huh?


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


So then "keypad" for short huh?










It physically is a keypad, but of the numeric variety. Hence numpad. Otherwise by saying keypad it could be anything (door keypad, atm keypad, etc.)


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Know what? It's a kumquat. Now can we end this idiotic argument please?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


It physically is a keypad, but of the numeric variety. Hence numpad. Otherwise by saying keypad it could be anything (door keypad, atm keypad, etc.)


The only people who'd get confused that easily are the kind who don't know how to pay attention to the context.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I have a cheeseburger


----------



## Jalal

Just got back from ML switches to my mushy Logitech and i don't miss that keyboard at all. ^_^ Would they stick less, then the case might have been different.


----------



## candy_van

OK so after doing some more thorough research here (+ watching a lot of videos / audio) I think MX brown or clear suit my needs / style best.
Typing with blues seems like it would be great, but also quite iffy to me for gaming...

That said I've narrowed my search down a bit more to a Filco Tactile (NKRO) or a Deck Legend Tactile.
Is the difference between brown & clear very noticeable?


----------



## thiru

Out of curiosity, why'd you rule out the Das?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *candy_van*


OK so after doing some more thorough research here (+ watching a lot of videos / audio) I think MX brown or clear suit my needs / style best.
Typing with blues seems like it would be great, but also quite iffy to me for gaming...

That said I've narrowed my search down a bit more to a Filco Tactile (NKRO) or a Deck Legend Tactile.
Is the difference between brown & clear very noticeable?


Don't forget the Das Model S "Silent" models. These are supposed to be superior to the Majestouch.


----------



## candy_van

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Out of curiosity, why'd you rule out the Das?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Don't forget the Das Model S "Silent" models. These are supposed to be superior to the Majestouch.


Whoops, didn't rule out the Das so much as forgot there was another version (so now I'm at 3 then)









So any noticeable difference between mx browns & clear?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *candy_van*


Whoops, didn't rule out the Das so much as forgot there was another version (so now I'm at 3 then)









So any noticeable difference between mx browns & clear?


Clears are stiffer. And in my opinion, better. As they're harder to bottom out.


----------



## Jalal

I would rule out the filco because you can't return it for a refund. maybe you won't like the browns after all.


----------



## candy_van

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Clears are stiffer. And in my opinion, better. As they're harder to bottom out.












Yea I got that impression, just tough to make the call without actually feeling it I suppose :/

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jalal*


I would rule out the filco because you can't return it for a refund. maybe you won't like the browns after all.


Leaning more toward Das then (opposed to Filco anyway); plus after going through a few other reviews in the interim / looking for myself again; difference in quality between them seems more apparent to me.

(thanks for the heads up on that guys







)


----------



## Maytan

If it helps, Das has an excellent RMA service. I got to use it; twice.


----------



## thiru

But the Deck is so shiny!


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
But the Deck is so shiny!

You mean Das? Decks are not shiny, they are more like a "lite-brite" that brings your hands joy as you type.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I duno, I game a lot when I was on blues and I loved every minute of it. Even now on browns I sometimes think I'd like to switch back to blues.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frickfrock99* 
Does anybody know how loud Cherry MX blues are in comparison to rubber domes?

The only one I could find was Phae's video.

Is there a list out there that ranks all the switches for sound at all?

I sent ripster a PM about this a couple months ago. I am sure he would do it if you bought him a sound meter that records decibel levels.

 Amazon.com: Mini Digital Sound Level Meter: Electronics

I wouldn't mind seeing a graph with every mechanical key switch tested at 1, 5 and 10 feet.

it's an issue that concerns newbies interested in purchasing a mechanical keyboard and it would put a end to the constant bickering over which mechanical key switch is louder.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
For example if you're doing data entry for statistical or genetic analysis.

Damn, just what I do all day long... Time to toss the HHKB in the trash.

Quote:

Leaning more toward Das then (opposed to Filco anyway); plus after going through a few other reviews in the interim / looking for myself again; difference in quality between them seems more apparent to me.
The main problem people have the Filco is that the caps wear. So the Das ones.

Quote:

But my question is simple: why isn't it called a keypad?
There are many pads of keys on a keyboard.

Quote:

Besides, I think it's slightly easier to say "keypad" since "numpad" means the lips have to come together twice instead of just once.


----------



## TwoCables

Good grief. Nevermind.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I sent ripster a PM about this a couple months ago. I am sure he would do it if you bought him a sound meter that records decibel levels.

Amazon.com: Mini Digital Sound Level Meter: Electronics

I wouldn't mind seeing a graph with every mechanical key switch tested at 1, 5 and 10 feet.

it's an issue that concerns newbies interested in purchasing a mechanical keyboard and it would put a end to the constant bickering over which mechanical key switch is louder.


Sound samples here. Just use your ears.

Anyway, I just got a new toy yesterday. This USB microphone is impressive.


----------



## lmnop

cheap bastard.


----------



## fssbzz

hey i found this site sell Xarmor U9BL for only $137 without even need student account and is Free shipping.

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...!#Availability

bought from this website before, the only weird side is when u make a payment with your credit card, u need to scan your credit card and your ID for them to verify before they will ship it to you.
but you only need to do it ONCE.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
hey i found this site sell Xarmor U9BL for only $137 without even need student account and is Free shipping.

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...!#Availability

bought from this website before, the only weird side is when u make a payment with your credit card, u need to scan your credit card and your ID for them to verify before they will ship it to you.
but you only need to do it ONCE.

You don't give them a scan of the backside, right? Otherwise they have your magic 3 digit code which would not be good. If you did, then I'd watch your statements very very carefully.


----------



## Snowblind

My only complaint about my Das Professional is that, after several months of heavy Warcraft III and SC2 playtime, the lettering of the alt and shift keys is starting to wear off. Aside from that, still going strong.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Snowblind* 
My only complaint about my Das Professional is that, after several months of heavy Warcraft III and SC2 playtime, the lettering of the alt and shift keys is starting to wear off. Aside from that, still going strong.

All keycaps wear after time. Unless you got super hacks of course.


----------



## lmnop

dye sublimation and double shot printing are permanent.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
You don't give them a scan of the backside, right? Otherwise they have your magic 3 digit code which would not be good. If you did, then I'd watch your statements very very carefully.

i have to.
u need both side.
well i read their reseller rating before i do it tho..
http://www.resellerratings.com/store...munications_15
lifetime rating: 9.62 / 10


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Yeeeaaaahhhh I'd skip buying there in the future, and maybe ask for a new card. 'Cause, uh, no retailer has any reason to know that information. You got scammed.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Yeeeaaaahhhh I'd skip buying there in the future, and maybe ask for a new card. 'Cause, uh, no retailer has any reason to know that information. You got scammed.

well yea, is kinda feel like getting scam..been watching my statement for 6 months..nothings wrong yet.
but they pretty good resseller rating eh~


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
You got scammed.

As suspect as this may be, he isn't really scammed until a problem arises. (IE: someone uses his information)

I'd cross that bridge when he comes to it, so to speak. (as in, I wouldn't trouble myself getting a new card until a problem shows up.)

Besides, they DO have over a hundred ratings....


----------



## fssbzz

lol they got this in their website

Quote:

Credit Card Fraud

Merchants, like us, pay for stolen merchandise; not the credit card companies, and not the card holders. If you are using a stolen credit card number, please leave now and save yourself the trouble. If you place an order with us using a stolen credit card number, your information will be given to the police or authorities in your area. We will assist them in prosecuting you to the fullest extent of the law, which may include arrest, fines, jail time, and seizure of your computer equipment. We will also contact your ISP and have your Internet service disconnected. If the authorities do not pursue you, our contracted private investigation firm will find you and notify the police, and/or we will take matters into the civil courts. If you think this is a victimless crime, you are wrong, and we will show absolutely no mercy to people who attempt to steal from us, and waste our time.
i think that is why u need to verify lol

and i already cancel that creditcard last month. phew lol
i change/cancel my credit almost every 1.5years.


----------



## lmnop

if billing processors and authorities ignore cases of exploited merchants who have lost thousands of credit card holders information what makes people think they will investigate a single case of fraud?


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
if billing processors and authorities ignore cases of exploited merchants who have lost thousands of credit card holders information what makes people think they will investigate a single case of fraud?









In his quote it says they have a PI firm that will essentially do the footwork. Who knows though


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
All keycaps wear after time. Unless you got super hacks of course.

No, the Das just has sloppy printing...


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
In his quote it says they have a PI firm that will essentially do the footwork. Who knows though

don't you find it odd they have to hire a PI in the first place?







it's an attempt to scare people. empty threats. the adult industry has been doing it for years. if nobody is going to spend the time or money on the root of the problem they won't spend it chasing some fraud case.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
don't you find it odd they have to hire a PI in the first place?







it's an attempt to scare people. empty threats. the adult industry has been doing it for years. if nobody is going to spend the time or money on the root of the problem they won't spend it chasing some fraud case.

Oh I know. The PI thing is surely a scare tactic. I suppose it would work, because what fraudulent individual would take his "business" to a place that "claims" to actually do something about it. He/she is likely just to move on to a place with less resistance.


----------



## lmnop

https high anon proxies that can process ssl transactions and evade geoip, hacked cells, redirects, abandon houses. this is 10 years ago. I can only imagine what they use now. where there's a will there's a way


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


https high anon proxies that can process ssl transactions and evade geoip, hacked cells, redirects, abandon houses. this is 10 years ago. I can only imagine what they use now. where there's a will there's a way










Yes, but like most crooks they usually look for the path of least resistance.


----------



## lmnop

if it's easy what is the point. I like a challenge. Maytan is trying to beat my Knife Throw 2 record


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Maytan is trying to beat my Knife Throw 2 record










WORKING ON IT... I tried about 6 times so far and got 300 points.

4770 is so far away.


----------



## lmnop

cute. keep trying









maybe some music will help.

  
 



  



 
cue montage.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
cute. keep trying









Aye-aye, Cap'n!


----------



## Rankiz

What is Cherry MX blue like in comparison to a rubberdome Saitek Eclipse II?


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Rankiz*


What is Cherry MX blue like in comparison to a rubberdome Saitek Eclipse II?


Totally different. After typing on a keyboard with MX Blue switches the Saitek will feel like total mush.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Rankiz*


What is Cherry MX blue like in comparison to a rubberdome Saitek Eclipse II?


your finger wont feel tired at all typing on blue mx


----------



## Mas

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Rankiz*


What is Cherry MX blue like in comparison to a rubberdome Saitek Eclipse II?


I just moved from a Saitek Eclipse II to a Filco with blue switches.

You don't have to type anywhere near as hard. I am still having trouble not bottoming out my keypresses.

It feels great though, and I love the sound.

The Saitek Eclipse II is a very very good keyboard as far as rubber domes go. I would say one of the best (or at least, I found it to be the best rubber dome keyboard I've ever used, and I've owned most of the mainstream gaming keyboards, etc. Even so, the mechanicals are in a completely different class. I don't think I will ever be able to go back, and most likely, I won't, considering the life expectancy of these babies.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mas* 
I just moved from a Saitek Eclipse II to a Filco with blue switches.

You don't have to type anywhere near as hard. I am still having trouble not bottoming out my keypresses.

It feels great though, and I love the sound.

The Saitek Eclipse II is a very very good keyboard as far as rubber domes go. I would say one of the best (or at least, I found it to be the best rubber dome keyboard I've ever used, and I've owned most of the mainstream gaming keyboards, etc. Even so, the mechanicals are in a completely different class. I don't think I will ever be able to go back, and most likely, I won't, considering the life expectancy of these babies.










I agree with this. I had a saitek, and would agree that it is certainly one of the better rubber dome keyboards. However, it still doesn't hold a candle to a cherry switch (I currently use Cherry MX Clears now)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rankiz* 
What is Cherry MX blue like in comparison to a rubberdome Saitek Eclipse II?

It's like the difference between a drummer drumming on a pillow with his drumsticks vs. drumming on a really high-end, perfectly-tuned snare drum.

It's literally the difference between being required to press a key all the way down in order to send the keystroke signal as opposed to only needing to press a key about halfway down.

Mechanical keyswitches use real springs inside while rubber domes try to mimic this feeling by using a big sheet of rubber with somewhat-springy rubber domes molded into the sheet for each key. Unfortunately, each little dome has to be pressed all the way down in order to make contact with the membrane underneath this sheet of rubber in order to complete the circuit thereby sending the signal to the computer.

Another way to describe it is that rubber domes work against you forcing you to do all of the work while most mechanical switches (especially the Cherry MX Blues and Browns) work _with_ you; it feels like the switch is doing half of the work. You push down, and about halfway through the keystroke it actuates. But at the same time, there's a real metal spring inside providing a pleasing amount of resistance which works with you, not against you.

It's like the difference between a gymnast performing their floor acrobatics on that special springy floor that they use as opposed to just using padded cement. You've seen what I'm talking about: they do a short sprint from one corner to the other, and then perform a bunch of flips and stuff only to land by the opposite corner. That floor they use is springy and it feels awesome to run around on it.

The feeling is very different; typing on the Cherry MX Blues is dramatically easier than typing on rubber domes. It can actually be considered _fun_. For me, it's like the difference between playing on one of those silly electronic drumsets (with the black rubber pads) as opposed to a real drumset - I hate playing on those electronic kits.


----------



## Genkaz92

One more thing, have you ever heard about anyone returning a Deck before? Am I being too hasty at returning it? Is 18 days enough to get used to a relatively tough MX blacks based mechanical keyboard with a smaller then average key surface area and a modified standard layout? (I moved to it directly from a rubber dome which was a Sidwinder X6) I am just kind of disappointed that I did not get along with that thing while it is an absolutely excellent keyboard.

I actually have absolutely no complaints about it other then the fact that my typing performance genuinely appears to be experiencing a decrease when I attempt to use it for such purposes.

It is absolutely excellent for gaming, and genuinely appears to be an overall extremely high quality product, probably one of the top ones when it comes to quality.

Does Deck legend have a wider key surface area then 82? Once again all of these are just curiosity questions.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
One more thing, have you ever heard about anyone returning a Deck before? Am I being too hasty at returning it? Is 18 days enough to get used to a relatively tough MX blacks based mechanical keyboard with a smaller then average key surface area and a modified standard layout? (I moved to it directly from a rubber dome which was a Sidwinder X6) I am just kind of disappointed that I did not get along with that thing while it is an absolutely excellent keyboard.

I actually have absolutely no complaints about it other then the fact that my typing performance genuinely appears to be experiencing a decrease when I attempt to use it for such purposes.

It is absolutely excellent for gaming, and genuinely appears to be an overall extremely high quality product, probably one of the top ones when it comes to quality.

Does Deck legend have a wider key surface area then 82? Once again all of these are just curiosity questions.

What you're experiencing is the reason why many mechanical keyboard enthusiasts do not like the Cherry MX Blacks for typing. Actually, some enthusiasts prefer to have more than one mechanical keyboard: their main daily driver that is great for typing, and then their gaming keyboard which is best used for gaming (which usually has the Cherry MX Blacks). So, what you have is the kind of keyboard that would be best reserved for gaming while you would have a separate keyboard for all other uses (which, of course, would be typing).

So, if you love this keyboard as a gaming keyboard, then what you could do for now is maybe get an IBM Model M through eBay and then save up for a good, brand new mechanical keyboard that has the Cherry MX Browns or Blues for typing.

Or, you can return this keyboard and get a different mechanical keyboard that has the Cherry MX Browns such as a Das Model S "Silent", or the Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch.


----------



## Genkaz92

These are indeed very curious suggestions, model M will most likely come from the delivery on Monday, which would still give me more then enough time to return the Deck if I wanted to.

I will be honest that having a universal keyboard for both purposes is the most appealing option to me rather then constantly having to swap between two different ones by constantly shoving one of them on my desk and then shoving the second one somewhere else, and then immediately repeating the cycle afterwards, even though Deck 82 is one heck of a compact thingie.


----------



## Genkaz92

I am actually typing on a keyboard which I am quite liking at the moment, which uses original ALPS blacks according to the OP, which is a Dell AT101W, I will undoubtedly admit that ALPS blacks certainly have a different feel then MX blacks, they are a lot lighter and "jumpier" which makes it significantly easier and more pleasant to type on them.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
These are indeed very curious suggestions, model M will most likely come from the delivery on Monday, which would still give me more then enough time to return the Deck if I wanted to.

I will be honest that having a universal keyboard for both purposes is the most appealing option to me rather then constantly having to swap between two different ones by constantly shoving one of them on my desk and then shoving the second one somewhere else, and then immediately repeating the cycle afterwards, even though Deck 82 is one heck of a compact thingie.

For some, it's easy to have more than one mechanical keyboard. But for me, it's next to impossible. Fortunately, the Cherry MX Blues are perfectly versatile for my needs (so far, and it's been 6 months now).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
I am actually typing on a keyboard which I am quite liking at the moment, which uses original ALPS blacks according to the OP, which is a Dell AT101W, I will undoubtedly admit that ALPS blacks certainly have a different feel then MX blacks, they are a lot lighter and "jumpier" which makes it significantly easier and more pleasant to type on them.

Oh yeah, the AT101W is one of those keyboards where some people absolutely love it to bits while others hate it. I don't know why yet, but who knows: maybe this could be your main (or only) driver! But the Model M is probably going to knock your socks off.


----------



## Genkaz92

If I were to go into details, I am using a pretty stripped version of the Dell at the moment:


----------



## TwoCables

hehe, I like that.


----------



## Genkaz92

I definitely highly enjoy typing on this thing. If this keyboard is so pleasant to type on, then pressing keys on model M must be like miniature finger orgasms.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
I definitely highly enjoy typing on this thing. If this keyboard is so pleasant to type on, then pressing keys on model M must be like miniature finger orgasms.

This makes me wish I knew what it felt like to type on the AT101W. I only know the Cherry MX Blues.







But yeah, most people who like the Model M might agree that it's like finger orgasms.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
I definitely highly enjoy typing on this thing. If this keyboard is so pleasant to type on, then pressing keys on model M must be like miniature finger orgasms.

Buckling Spring is very different darling.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
This makes me wish I knew what it felt like to type on the AT101W. I only know the Cherry MX Blues.







But yeah, most people who like the Model M might agree that it's like finger orgasms.

Stiff, comparatively weak tactility, and suddenly it gives way hard. Used to wreck my hands if I typed on one too long.

I have yet to hear someone who prefers Black Alps over Blue Cherries, Buckling Springs or White Alps.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Stiff, comparatively weak tactility, and suddenly it gives way hard. Used to wreck my hands if I typed on one too long.

I have yet to hear someone who prefers Black Alps over Blue Cherries, Buckling Springs or White Alps.

Will you murder me and steal my soul if I do?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Stiff, comparatively weak tactility, and suddenly it gives way hard. Used to wreck my hands if I typed on one too long.

I have yet to hear someone who prefers Black Alps over Blue Cherries, Buckling Springs or White Alps.

Oh man, then he's gonna have quite a day on Monday when his Model M arrives!


----------



## lmnop

as if I didn't hate braided cables enough NZXT just unveiled a LED braided cable


----------



## TwoCables

lol function follows form!


----------



## thisispatrick

Very unappealing :|


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Will you murder me and steal my soul if I do?

Yes, I am wrathful.

I doubt it though. The main reason why people dislike buckling springs, if they do, is that they are stiff. The Black Alps are about as stiff as the buckling springs.

Typing on my Blue Alps right now


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
as if I didn't hate braided cables enough NZXT just unveiled a LED braided cable


















Edited once again


----------



## lmnop

tutti ****ing fruity


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
as if I didn't hate braided cables enough NZXT just unveiled a LED braided cable









I will have to agree with you about the braided cables, mouse cables specifically. In theory mouse cables should be as smooth as possible and as light as possible to allow easier friction and general lack of problems. When a mouse cable is braided, it rubs and scratches against any even remotely uneven surface while also being ridiculously annoying to manage.

Braided power supply cables are also a pain in the arse, but the mouse cable is one of my main points of agreement.


----------



## ch_123

It's like someone shot a fibre optic cable with a machinegun.


----------



## thisispatrick

Wow I can see where the inspiration came from...
If I want Christmas lights, I'll get Christmas lights.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
I will have to agree with you about the braided cables, mouse cables specifically. In theory mouse cables should be as smooth as possible and as light as possible to allow easier friction and general lack of problems. When a mouse cable is braided, it rubs and scratches against any even remotely uneven surface while also being ridiculously annoying to manage.

Braided power supply cables are also a pain in the arse, but the mouse cable is one of my main points of agreement.

Yeah, well these days function follows form. Or, haven't you noticed?


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Yes, I am wrathful.

I doubt it though. The main reason why people dislike buckling springs, if they do, is that they are stiff. The Black Alps are about as stiff as the buckling springs.

Typing on my Blue Alps right now









I am actually highly enjoying their immediate and stiff nature, one of the things that I disliked about the Deck that I attempted was the fact that it's keys somehow managed to have high resistance/weight requirement and be very "smooth" at the same time which made them very awkward to type on. In other words, they were difficult to push and very procedural to push instead if having one quick light stiff press that Black Alps appear to provide, which I am loving so far. Once again, it is kind of a ripoff that I did not get along with the Deck 82, it really is a wonderful keyboard, but it is just not my thing when it comes to active usage. It would be absolutely awesome if there was a Deck 82 with Black Alps keys, in my opinion they are better then MX blacks, just my opinion though.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Yeah, well these days function follows form. Or, haven't you noticed?









I do find the all the obsession with braiding cables in the current days of computer world to be rather unnecessary, or "braidsession", if you will. I understand that braiding power supply cables supposedly makes them safer, but braiding a mouse cable is inexcusable. This is what I had to do with my mouse cable partially due to it being braided:










It is kind of difficult to see, but basically I had to use scotch to tape the cord on top of my desk, to both solve the problem of it causing resistance when I attempt to slide the mouse up in any other situation, and the fact that it constantly rubbed and scratched against the angle of my wooden board, which was not only ridiculously annoying but also actually interrupted the mouse movement.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
I am actually highly enjoying their immediate and stiff nature, one of the things that I disliked about the Deck that I attempted was the fact that it's keys somehow managed to have high resistance/weight requirement and be very "smooth" at the same time which made them very awkward to type on. In other words, they were difficult to push and very procedural to push instead if having one quick light stiff press that Black Alps appear to provide, which I am loving so far. Once again, it is kind of a ripoff that I did not get along with the Deck 82, it really is a wonderful keyboard, but it is just not my thing when it comes to active usage. It would be absolutely awesome if there was a Deck 82 with Black Alps keys, in my opinion they are better then MX blacks, just my opinion though.

In other words, the Cherry MX Blacks are stiff and linear while the true Black Alps are tactile and perhaps not as stiff.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
I do find the all the obsession with braiding cables in the current days of computer world to be rather unnecessary, or "braidsession", if you will. I understand that braiding power supply cables supposedly makes them safer, but braiding a mouse cable is inexcusable. This is what I had to do with my mouse cable partially due to it being braided:

It is kind of difficult to see, but basically I had to use scotch to tape the cord on top of my desk, to both solve the problem of it causing resistance when I attempt to slide the mouse up in any other situation, and the fact that it constantly rubbed and scratched against the angle of my wooden board, which was not only ridiculously annoying but also actually interrupted the mouse movement.

this is the IBM Model M of mouse bungees. I have one.



















you can buy them on eBay for $4.95 here.


----------



## ch_123

Depends on what you mean by "stiff". Last I checked, Black Alps are 70g, and Black Cherries are 60g. It's all to do with force progression.

Oh, and friction, that's another thing about Alps switches in general...


----------



## TwoCables

What is the purpose of that bungee thing?


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
this is the IBM Model M of mouse bungees. I have one.

you can buy them on eBay for $4.95 here.

This is fantastic, I was always under the suspicion that an actually good mouse cord related accessory existed. Thank you very much for giving me that link, this is awesome.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Depends on what you mean by "stiff". Last I checked, Black Alps are 70g, and Black Cherries are 60g. It's all to do with force progression.

Oh, and friction, that's another thing about Alps switches in general...

I was mostly discussing the difference between their style of traveling from a push of the finger, and their light nature, which I quite like about them.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
What is the purpose of that bungee thing?

To keep the cable away from the desk/corners to avoid friction caused by the cable - very awesome in FPS games. With my old mouse that had vinyl coating on its cable I used to have it taped to the edge of my monitor - with the new braided cable on my Xai I don't need to - I only have it taped at the end of my table to prevent it from dragging too much if the cable falls down.

*EDIT*

By the way guys - there's a reason we have the swearing filter. Don't try to bypass it with images or something like that. If something gets censored you are still to edit it to something more appropriate.


----------



## lmnop

it's a cord weight that also mimics the wireless sensation. the springs automatically raise and lower the cord as you move the mouse.

the Mouse Bungee comes in a couple colours.










I think black and graphite are the only colours available because...

Quote:

The Mouse Bungee Company IP has been purchased by a major player in the gaming accessories world.


----------



## Genkaz92

Just bought one bungee from that seller, looks like I will have another item to look forward to this week.


----------



## TwoCables

Wow. I'm actually interested in the Mouse Bungee now.


----------



## lmnop

there are a couple others. I thought the Mouse Bungee was the best choice. I wasn't disappointed.

EVO-G has one called the Mouse Bungee it has a little more functionality but lacks the flexibility, moves around on the desk and looks flimsy. cost about $20.


----------



## Maytan

Yeahp, I wanna buy one of those. I can't spend any of my Paypal cash until my buyer gets his items though, to avoid possible problems with returns.


----------



## webwit

...


----------



## ch_123

...and this is what Kbdmania does to the mind


----------



## webwit

...


----------



## lmnop

pretty but I like the Black Keycaps on the Industrial Model M.


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:


Originally Posted by *webwit* 
난 rgb 좋아해 ^^

와우 ... 색상!










Who says LSD isn't creative inspiration?


----------



## lmnop

this is my favourite.


----------



## Maytan

I personally like them both.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


난 rgb 좋아해 ^^

와우 ... 색상!


I appreciate the Keyboard pictures; but the Terms of Service of Overclock.net require you to post _only_ in English.

So please refrain from posting in other languages in the future. As this could lead to you getting an infraction.


----------



## lmnop

if you slip on a banana peel at OCN they will give you a infraction









lame


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


난 rgb 좋아해 ^^

http://webwit.nl/input/filco/***ka/2.jpg

와우 ... 색상!











Oooo! Colorful!


----------



## lmnop

everybody grab one.


----------



## Genkaz92

Is anyone aware of the exact Unicomp SpaceSaver dimensions, or how large it would be compared to a Dell AT101W? Also, I am assuming that it has similar reliability to a model M.

Nevermind, found it:

Unicomp EnduraPro/Unicomp Spacesaver

Model: UB40PGA (EnduraPro, Black, USB, US layout), UB43PJ6 (EnduraPro, Black, PS/2, UK layout)
Manufacturer: Unicomp
Year: 2000-Present (EnduraPro) 2007-Present (Spacesaver)
Layout: 104-key ANSI or 105-key ISO.
Country sold in: Worldwide (from Unicomp's website)
Manufactured in: Lexington, KY, US
Interface: USB or PS/2 (Spacesaver) or PS/2 Y-cable. (EnduraPro, has PS/2 pass-through connector for external mouse.)
Keyswitches: Buckling spring over membrane, or Rubber Dome. (Silent/Quiet Key models only)
Other features: Pointing stick. (EnduraPro only)
Colour: Pearl White or Raven Black with Black keys (2003-2006) or Metallic Grey keys (2007-Present) or blank keys.
Weight: 1.7Kg
Dimensions: 17.9 x 7.1 inches
Notes: EnduraPro is a copy of the IBM Japan 5576-C01 keyboard with a Western layout.
The Spacesaver is the Endurapro without the pointing stick. The identations for where the mouse buttons should be can be seen on the case.
Reviews: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:4371 (EnduraPro)
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:4372 (Spacesaver)


----------



## lmnop

wow. I didn't realize Unicomp specs were so difficult to find.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Ripster, lmnop, this isn't Geekhack... I mean, yeah, it's fun to take it easy, but really, with how many linkbacks this thread has (many hundreds) and how high it is on the Google search list (usually the first result), I don't think it speaks well for strangers coming in for a look-see to see such an informative discussion devolving like that. Maybe it's fun on Geekhack, and I love lurking there partly for that reason, but this is a thread on general mechanical keyboard info. Let's keep it that way.









And webwit, it IS required to speak English around here. If I see another inflammatory post like that just because someone pointed out the rules to you, there might be something else done about it.


----------



## nonamed

Is there any way to buy new replacement keys-set for Das Keyboard ??


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonamed* 
Is there any way to buy new replacement keys-set for Das Keyboard ??

no. why do you ask?


----------



## ch_123

Would the Filco ones fit?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Would the Filco ones fit?

yes but there are none available.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Is anyone aware of the exact Unicomp SpaceSaver dimensions, or how large it would be compared to a Dell AT101W? Also, I am assuming that it has similar reliability to a model M.

Nevermind, found it:

Unicomp EnduraPro/Unicomp Spacesaver

Model: UB40PGA (EnduraPro, Black, USB, US layout), UB43PJ6 (EnduraPro, Black, PS/2, UK layout)
Manufacturer: Unicomp
Year: 2000-Present (EnduraPro) 2007-Present (Spacesaver)
Layout: 104-key ANSI or 105-key ISO.
Country sold in: Worldwide (from Unicomp's website)
Manufactured in: Lexington, KY, US
Interface: USB or PS/2 (Spacesaver) or PS/2 Y-cable. (EnduraPro, has PS/2 pass-through connector for external mouse.)
Keyswitches: Buckling spring over membrane, or Rubber Dome. (Silent/Quiet Key models only)
Other features: Pointing stick. (EnduraPro only)
Colour: Pearl White or Raven Black with Black keys (2003-2006) or Metallic Grey keys (2007-Present) or blank keys.
Weight: 1.7Kg
Dimensions: 17.9 x 7.1 inches
Notes: EnduraPro is a copy of the IBM Japan 5576-C01 keyboard with a Western layout.
The Spacesaver is the Endurapro without the pointing stick. The identations for where the mouse buttons should be can be seen on the case.
Reviews: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:4371 (EnduraPro)
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:4372 (Spacesaver)

In relative terms, it's slightly smaller than a Dell AT101W, yet heavier.

Hehe, I wrote those IBM entries in the Keyboard Reference a long time ago when I was bored.

Quote:

yes but there are none available.
Odd. Wonder why.


----------



## nonamed

There are only BLANK keys from filco available on

keyboardco.com

Would they fit DasKeyboard ?


----------



## lmnop

elitekeyboards stopped selling the pad printed keycaps for the Filco Majestouch. apparently Brian at elitekeyboards recently said they are going to be carrying double shot keycaps for the Filco Majestouch but couldn't say when or how much. yesterday I read they tried this before with signature plastics but didn't like the samples.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonamed* 
There are only BLANK keys from filco available on

keyboardco.com

Would they fit DasKeyboard ?

yes.


----------



## ch_123

Note that they are also out of stock.

*pounds away smugly on dye-sub Alps keycaps*


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Hey guys, is the SideWinder x6 a rubber dome or mechanical keyboard? I'm planning on getting it. It has some nice features. I'm also planning on sending ideas for a SideWinder x10 Keyboard and Mouse.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
Hey guys, is the SideWinder x6 a rubber dome or mechanical keyboard? I'm planning on getting it. It has some nice features. I'm also planning on sending ideas for a SideWinder x10 Keyboard and Mouse.

It's a rubber dome. But it is one of the best I have tried... Not that I've tried many, but it's better than G15/lycosa/random rubber domes.

And sending ideas won't work unless it's REALLY REALLY impressive.


----------



## Genkaz92

Sidewinder X6 is definitely one beastly rubber dome, I had nothing but pleasant experiences with it before I began my expedition into the world of mechanical keyboards.

Yet another question: If buckling springs are most similar to White Alps, how are the buckling springs/White Alps compared to the Black Alps that Dell uses?

I do quite like the Black Alps so far, it would have been amazing if an 82 Deck version existed with Black Alps.


----------



## ch_123

Compared with Black Alps, White Alps are lighter, more tactile, and clicky. Compared with the White Alps, the buckling springs are more tactile still, don't bottom out as hard, and are more smooth.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Compared with Black Alps, White Alps are lighter, more tactile, and clicky. Compared with the White Alps, the buckling springs are more tactile still, don't bottom out as hard, and are more smooth.

I certainly cannot wait to test the model M, in this case.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *De-Zant* 
It's a rubber dome. But it is one of the best I have tried... Not that I've tried many, but it's better than G15/lycosa/random rubber domes.

And sending ideas won't work unless it's REALLY REALLY impressive.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Sidewinder X6 is definitely one beastly rubber dome, I had nothing but pleasant experiences with it before I began my expedition into the world of mechanical keyboards.

Yet another question: If buckling springs are most similar to White Alps, how are the buckling springs/White Alps compared to the Black Alps that Dell uses?

I do quite like the Black Alps so far, it would have been amazing if an 82 Deck version existed with Black Alps.

I have a thread about it. Not many replies though. It isn't the most interesting thing. All I need is some support email for microsoft. It's worth a try.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
I have a thread about it. Not many replies though. It isn't the most interesting thing. All I need is some support email for microsoft. It's worth a try.

Just put enough time and effort into it to make it impressive. Also: Do a render of a 3D model of the keyboard you have designed.

Please include blue backlight and detachable numpad. I could buy the board then. It would be a dream.


----------



## Genkaz92

So far my plan is to get that model M from Ebay on Monday which I will then thoroughly test. If I find it to be too large of a keyboard (which is not impossible) but like the actual feel of it, then I will probably then focus my attention on the Unicomp SpaceSaver.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *De-Zant* 
Just put enough time and effort into it to make it impressive. Also: Do a render of a 3D model of the keyboard you have designed.

Please include blue backlight and detachable numpad. I could buy the board then. It would be a dream.

I just updated it. I removed the modular futuristic look. Some people might want a smooth design. I made it so it's all blue LED's and blue LED backlighting. I had to include bluetrack technology. a powerful green laser is good but will drain battery life quickly.


----------



## ripster

A Microsoft Keyboard R&D guy is a Geekhacker. But don't bug him please. We have forum rules about that.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


A Microsoft Keyboard R&D guy is a Geekhacker. But don't bug him please. We have forum rules about that.


Christopher Walken works for Microsoft?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Christopher Walken works for Microsoft?


Dis guy... He's un-FREAKING-believable.


----------



## candy_van

Alright guys...I'm buying a Deck








Just one last question before I drop almost $200 on this thing (







):

I know I should get a PS/2 model, but does it make a difference at all when you use a KVM switch from USB?


----------



## lmnop

I don't understand the question?


----------



## Maytan

I think he's asking if there's any reason to use PS/2 on a KVM switch....?


----------



## candy_van

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I don't understand the question?


If I were to buy a USB model and use a KVM USB-PS/2 adapter, would there be any difference as opposed to just using PS/2?

Hope that's a little more clear


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *candy_van*


If I were to buy a USB model and use a KVM USB-PS/2 adapter, would there be any difference as opposed to just using PS/2?

Hope that's a little more clear










I just woke up.

if you put a PS/2 adapter on the Deck Legend (USB) it might not work and if it did work it would be limited to 6+4 rollover.

Deck Legend will work on a PS/2 or USB adapter but it's picky about which ones.

it's also picky about KvM switches.

in the Deck Legend user manual there is instructions how to change your native USB cable to PS/2 or PS/2 cable to USB.


----------



## ripster

Some Deck engineer really screwed up there. A Filco just does the USB to PS/2 conversion with a passive Purple connector - none of this swapping 10K resistor B.S. AND it picks up the full NKRO.


----------



## candy_van

Well I guess I should get a PS/2 then and change it over as directed if need be.

I was being preemptively lazy








Also will admit I was thinking of double checking on Performance-PCs claim to have Frost Tactiles in stock (not available till Dec. on Deck's site); but they only sell USB Decks...

Not really a deal breaker for the color though, was just a thought.


----------



## lmnop

maybe it does? here is a thought. e-mail Deck and ask.


----------



## lmnop

I think one of the reasons it's picky with KvM switches is power requirements.

Quote:

You may also want to check with the KVM manufacturer as sone limit the current that can be output through the KVM. Your Deck Legend will draw up to 498mA and some KVM's can't handle that much power. Chances are if the lights come on yours is fine and you do just need to clip the resistor located in the top left corner and labeled with silkscreen printing (W3 if I remember correctly but I don't have one in front of me right now).
more info about adapters.

Quote:

From our lead engineer:

Deck has not yet found a suitable stand-alone adapter. Be careful with USB to PS/2 adapters! I believe that most (if not all) of these adapters were meant to be replacement adapters for original equipment that supports both USB and PS/2 interfaces (The standard Deck 82 key only supports USB); these adapters will not simply convert any generic USB keyboard into a generic PS/2 keyboard. To date, the adapters that we've examined simply map "USB D-" to "PS/2 Data" and "USB D+" to "PS/2 Clock" (as well as +5V to +5V and gnd to gnd).

Hope this helps.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Some Deck engineer really screwed up there. A Filco just does the USB to PS/2 conversion with a passive Purple connector - none of this swapping 10K resistor B.S. AND it picks up the full NKRO.










A Filco doesn't have to power 100+ LED's either.


----------



## lmnop

I sent Deck a e-mail about the matter I hope to receive a response.


----------



## candy_van

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I sent Deck a e-mail about the matter I hope to receive a response.

Awesome









Looking forward to the response!
I did have that on the to do list but it was already like 2AM or something...and I passed out


----------



## lmnop

response

Quote:

Hi Christine,

The KVMs/adapters discussed on the forums do apply to the Legend as well. We make no guarantees that our products will work with any of these adapters. If you did get a PS2 adapter to work on a USB product I believe the rollover would still be limited to 6+4 but I cannot be certain.

Adam Martin | Deck Tech Guru

[email protected]


----------



## candy_van

Thanks for that.
Looks like I'd still have to internally change the board over to USB if needed then :/

Shouldn't be an issue so long as PS/2 is left as a legacy connection, but I'm wondering just how long that will stick around (not sure if that's stupidly funny concern or not)...


----------



## lmnop

the high end models from Asus and MSI have PS/2 support. I don't think it's going anywhere for a while.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Just a quick question for you guys:

For some reason, my Das won't work with the PS/2 adapter. It works fine with USB, but when plugged into the adapter, the Caps/Num/Scroll lock lights flash on for a second right when I connect it before going off, and the keyboard becomes unresponsive. I've tried restarting, and it still doesn't work.


----------



## ripster

Quote:

If you did get a PS2 adapter to work on a USB product I believe the rollover would still be limited to 6+4 but I cannot be certain.

Adam Martin | Deck Tech Guru
How can he be a tech guru and not know the answer to this simple question? Frankly, I think he's wrong and it would work as NKRO as soon as you did the resistor swap. You could also probably build a custom dongle with a resistor built in to go from USB to PS/2 - I'd have to see a pic of that mysterious "W3" pin location referenced in the PDF user manual.

They just don't make tech gurus like they used to.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
They just don't make tech gurus like they used to.

lol


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d* 
Just a quick question for you guys:

For some reason, my Das won't work with the PS/2 adapter. It works fine with USB, but when plugged into the adapter, the Caps/Num/Scroll lock lights flash on for a second right when I connect it before going off, and the keyboard becomes unresponsive. I've tried restarting, and it still doesn't work.


That's because PS/2 implementation on modern motherboards sucks. That's one of those errors in the Mechanical keyboard guides at OCN and HardForum.


----------



## lmnop

let me get my 486dx out.


----------



## ripster

From the OCN Guide

Quote:

PS/2 or USB?
PS/2 wins on three fronts: First, it supports full n-key rollover. Second, PS/2 keyboards aren't polled, but are completely interrupt based. And third, it is impossible for it to be delayed by the USB bus being used by other devices. There are two types of USB transfer modes - the interrupt transfer mode (USB polls keyboard, when key is sensed the USB controller sends the interrupt to the CPU), and the isochronous transfer mode, which reserves a certain amount of bandwidth for the keyboard with a guaranteed latency on the bus. Unfortunately, there are absolutely no keyboards made that use the latter, because special controllers would have to be used, thus making it cost prohibitive.
From the HardForum Mechanical Keyboard Guide

Quote:

When purchasing a mechanical keyboard always choose the PS/2 version over the USB version. PS/2 offers infinite N-Key rollover while USB only offers 6 key rollover with 4 modifiers. If you need a USB connector for your PC, purchase an "Active" PS/2 to USB converter. Non-active PS/2 converters do not properly transmit all data from mechanical keyboards. You can find one here (Used with the IBM Model M Keyboards):
http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index...id/0/id/124184
I would never get a PS/2 keyboard if given the choice of USB or PS/2. It's 2010 people!!!

I don't get the whole polling/interrupt argument when it's the OS/Application/Internet doing 99.99% of the latency damage. 6KRO is fine unless you are into Asian two handed music games












And that theoretical Isochronous Transfer mode was fascinating but irrelevant.


----------



## thiru

Stepmania is awesome. I should try it again now that I have a mechanical keyboard


----------



## candy_van

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
From the OCN Guide

From the HardForum Mechanical Keyboard Guide

I would never get a PS/2 keyboard if given the choice of USB or PS/2. It's 2010 people!!!

I don't get the whole polling/interrupt argument when it's the OS/Application/Internet doing 99.99% of the latency damage. 6KRO is fine unless you are into Asian two handed music games 



And that theoretical Isochronous Transfer mode was fascinating but irrelevant.

Yea I mean my current board has a PS/2 connection on it, but I have no idea if my next one, two, five etc will...
Is it really THAT much better on PS/2? I've used USB for a long time now so I can't imagine I'd be too upset by continuing to use it.


----------



## ripster

I think I finally found a game that would benefit from >6KRO (although it would be trivial to remap that 7th key).


----------



## lmnop

I think I am going to try some of these games to see if they can increase my speed.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candy_van* 
Yea I mean my current board has a PS/2 connection on it, but I have no idea if my next one, two, five etc will...
Is it really THAT much better on PS/2? I've used USB for a long time now so I can't imagine I'd be too upset by continuing to use it.

If you are implying that Keyboard Manufacturers have been lying to Gamers for years about the need for NKRO versus a guaranteed 6KRO on a convenient modern interface like USB I'm shocked.

Simply SHOCKED!!!


----------



## Maytan

Hey, ripster, I asked this before but never really got a conclusion. Any idea what Unicomp's keyboard covers are made out of?


----------



## ripster

I've been told by the forum moderators to stay on topic and since this 7894 post thread is about the Mechanical Keyboard Guide I'll restrict my comments to the Original Post.


----------



## lmnop

he wants to know if it's worth $10.


----------



## ripster

Or you could google "Unicomp Key Cover" and click on the first result.

Forum rules allow me to say this?


----------



## lmnop

http://cgi.ebay.com/Topre-Realforce-...item3f03358566

I love when they say "like new"


----------



## gonX

You shouldn't worry about the forum rules in general. Just use common sense and we'll let a lot of crap slide


----------



## runeazn

Lol
They wont let slide any crap.

Repped somebody for real helpful post baam infraction ***orz?

Helping somebody baaam imfract again wtofroz

Saye you did use hw appriopiate coolant right baam another infract.
I only get the craziesy infracts


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runeazn* 
Lol
They wont let slide any crap.

Repped somebody for real helpful post baam infraction ***orz?

Helping somebody baaam imfract again wtofroz

Saye you did use hw appriopiate coolant right baam another infract.
I only get the craziesy infracts

Way to twist the reality. If you're going to call out the moderators being the bad people you should try to be right in the first place.
I agree that the reputation warning may have been a bit far out, but the other infractions make sense. You should see the reasoning behind it. If I for example say "You should buy XYZ because ABC", then that does not warrant an infraction. But if I say "You damn idiot, why is that not obvious? XYZ works better than ABC because 123", it'd warrant an infraction because you're not being courteous towards your fellow members.
I realize you're not very old but most of your "issues" are issues that are easily fixed.

Now, let's try not to talk about infractions here. If you have questions about your infractions or the infraction system, throw me a PM instead of complaining in the open forum. Nothing good comes out of it and we'll just end up having a debate of that instead.


----------



## Maytan

^But can your cat sing NU ABO?


----------



## W4LNUT5

Why has the mechanical keyboard guide become the place to vent frustrations about mods? It's been like this the last 2 days or so. If someone has that much of a problem then they need to consider leaving on their own, instead of practically begging moderators to make the decision for them.


----------



## ripster

Jeez. I'm the only one that stays on topic around here.

Why does the OCN mechanical keyboard guide recommend PS/2 keyboards over USB keyboards? The logic is fuzzy to me.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

1. Interrupt based, so theoretically lower latency
2. Full NKRO
3. guuuuuhhhhhhh


----------



## ripster

Well, full NKRO is nice but you only need more than USB's 6KRO for like two Asian music games.

And the theoretical lower latency is just theoretical.

Although technically it doesn't say it the OCN Mechanical Keyboard guide implies you should buy a keyboard with a PS/2 interface. That same PS/2 interface is showing more and more problems as motherboard suppliers don't bother testing it fully. See all the reports of "my XYZ PS/2 keyboard isn't working"!

At Geekhack we tell them to stick a USB dongle on it and "Poof!" - 9/10 times it fixes the problem. Except for the dorks that use cheapo power supplies.

Plus, how many gaming keyboard companies do you guys expect to ship with PS/2 as standard?


----------



## sefwe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


If you are implying that Keyboard Manufacturers have been lying to Gamers for years about the need for NKRO versus a guaranteed 6KRO on a convenient modern interface like USB I'm shocked.


Guaranteed 6KRO? USB doesnt garant this, it limits, i would think.

Also theoretically it is possible to use the keyboard as a music board and play music. I mean not some games, just music, from a regular notation or whats it called. I once programmed a musical keyboard in Turbo Basic for the speaker. Funny times. lolol.


----------



## ripster

That's true. There are maybe 10 people in the world that play music on their PC keyboard. Although you'd need a more complex bass line and some jazz chords on top.

  
 



  



 

Is OCN going to ding Razer's Black Widow because it uses USB only? It's 2010 people!!!


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


That's true. There are maybe 10 people in the world that play music on their PC keyboard. Although you'd need a more complex bass line and some jazz chords on top.






Is OCN going to ding Razer's Black Widow because it uses USB only? It's 2010 people!!!


LOL. I like the video. I'm planning on getting a keyboard from Microsoft. Are most of Microsoft's keyboards good? I'm planning on getting the ark keyboard because I'm getting the ark touch mouse which is coming out soon. It has bluetrack technology and looks nice.


----------



## KipH

You look like your trying to make a point ripster, but what is it? Is USB better than PS/2? I will give you that it is more convenient but is it better? This thread is all about nitpicking. We argue over minuscule amounts of force, precise points of actuation, the difference between clicky and clacky (thanks 2cables), the definition of "anti-ghosting" and other esoterica. If you want NKRO you need PS/2. 6KRO may be good enough, but do you buy the keyboard that is just good enough?


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


You look like your trying to make a point ripster, but what is it? Is USB better than PS/2? I will give you that it is more convenient but is it better? This thread is all about nitpicking. We argue over minuscule amounts of force, precise points of actuation, the difference between clicky and clacky (thanks 2cables), the definition of "anti-ghosting" and other esoterica. If you want NKRO you need PS/2. 6KRO may be good enough, but do you buy the keyboard that is just good enough?


Yeah! This isn't "justgoodenough.net"

NKRO and 1500W psu's for the masses!!!!!!!!


----------



## ripster

My point is the Mechanical Keyboard Guide (see the original post) is out of whack.

If you guy's have the discipline to Overclock to the nth degree then staying on topic should be easy.


----------



## KipH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Yeah! This isn't "justgoodenough.net"

NKRO and 1500W psu's for the masses!!!!!!!!


Now lets not get carried away. How about NKRO, and 800W 82+gold psu's for all reasonable people.

Other than needing another update and a summery I think the guide is just fine. Most of the knowledge I have now came from reading then arguing about that guide. My opinion that PS/2 is better but not always needed and less convenient came from reading that guide. So, its still to you to prove that USB is better.


----------



## ripster

Trivia break.

Did you know the PS/2 spec was introduced by IBM along with the PS/2 line of computers in 1987, 23 years ago?









For our more modern readers IBM, Dell, HP, Logitech and Microsoft all used to offer keyboards that worked with the purple port.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 


USB is a modern interface designed for hotplugging, Hotplugging PS/2 is not good for your motherboard unless you like to solder tiny smt fuses.
Most modern keyboards ship with USB only interfaces. Do most people at OCN use PS/2 mice?
If you want a Razer/Happy Hacking Keyboard/RealForce and the standard Logitech/Microsofts you better like USB since PS/2 is not an option. Plus the new nifty Microsoft Sidewinder X4 has 11KRO over USB.
It's 2010 people. How long do you think motherboard manufacturers will keep it up with USB 3.0 starting to take up ports.

1: That's what I meant by more convenient. Thanks for clarifying my statement.
2. All the mother boards I looked at last week had PS/2. I have heard of the demise of it but seen no evidence. I have seen a few that only have one (and the purple/green is halved too) but that is rare still. I think it will take a few years more still.
3. Many of those keyboards support PS/2 to get NKRO don't they?
The X4 had to cheat to get 11KRO and I applaud them for it.
4. Does USB3 wave the 6 key limit? Is so I would be happy to wave goodbye to legacy ports. And I am a guy with a floppy still









And thanks for the history, I had not know that. Keep them tidbits coming.


----------



## ripster

USB3 won't help the NKRO issue. In fact most keyboards are just USB 1.1 since higher speed is not necessary for a keyboard. That's partly why the latency is a non-issue. The OS and apps are what causes those annoying periodic pauses.

And USB's 6KRO is good enough for humanoids. Even the 6 fingered man approves of USB because he uses his other hand for mousing.










Meanwhile happy PS/2 keyboard users are plugging along/


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Enough already, ripster. Please stop repeating yourself.

This thread is no longer fun to visit, and you are part of the reason why.

Really? I personally enjoy reading the information Ripster has to offer.


----------



## emc_2

Very nice guide. +1 virtual rep


----------



## Crazy9000

It's not just Asian games that could need more then 6KRO. Any game that uses two hands on the keyboard has the potential.


----------



## TwoCables

For me, I prefer having full NKRO because it's peace of mind. Plus, I've never had it before.


----------



## candy_van

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
For me, I prefer having full NKRO because it's peace of mind. Plus, I've never had it before.

See for me the peace of mind element is more about the connection itself, namely the fact that PS/2 is a legacy port.
I've gone over my own gaming needs extensively here (probably too much lol) and I'm just not sure if the advantages I may not even notice are worth the simple compatibility/convenience of USB.

Again, wouldn't be much of an issue if adapters worked with the board I've (finally) decided on, but such is life


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candy_van* 
See for me the peace of mind element is more about the connection itself, namely the fact that PS/2 is a legacy port.
I've gone over my own gaming needs extensively here (probably too much lol) and I'm just not sure if the advantages I may not even notice are worth the simple compatibility/convenience of USB.

Again, wouldn't be much of an issue if adapters worked with the board I've (finally) decided on, but such is life









Oh. Well I think that the reason why it's so reliable with boards like mine is because there's nothing extra to power such as 104 LEDs.


----------



## gonX

ripster, what are you trying to say?


----------



## lmnop

Das Model S Ultimate on eBay for $70.

things you can buy for the Das Model S.

Novus Polishing Kit or individual bottles
3M Silicone Wrist Rest
Lavender W, S, A, D Keycaps


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
ripster, what are you trying to say?

I was responding to post #7881. PS/2 is not always the best choice given modern motherboard implementations.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d* 
Just a quick question for you guys:

For some reason, my Das won't work with the PS/2 adapter. It works fine with USB, but when plugged into the adapter, the Caps/Num/Scroll lock lights flash on for a second right when I connect it before going off, and the keyboard becomes unresponsive. I've tried restarting, and it still doesn't work.


----------



## lmnop

oh boy


----------



## ripster

He asked. I have nothing more to say on this issue in this thread. Cross my fingers and hope to die.


----------



## candy_van

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Oh. Well I think that the reason why it's so reliable with boards like mine is because there's nothing extra to power such as 104 LEDs.









Well, we'll soon find out I guess; just ordered a Deck Legend (Tac-Ice)...can't wait!


----------



## ripster

Which version. USB or PS/2?


----------



## ch_123

TwoCables - on a slightly unrelated note, the last I checked, PNGs are ridiculously big, and you can't really tell the quality difference if you save the JPG at high quality.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Which version. USB or PS/2?

Pretty certain he went with USB.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
twocables - on a slightly unrelated note, since when were PNGs smaller than JPG?

PNG format is the smallest size u can get from the BEST quality image.
or lol some1 can fix..

edit: i read and feel something was wrong lol


----------



## candy_van

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Which version. USB or PS/2?

USB.

Again just didn't seem like the PS/2 was really needed for me, plus it's just more convenient etc.
Besides, if I turn out to be wrong; I'll just exchange it


----------



## ch_123

Well, from personal experience, you can have a PNG that is about 1MB, and when saved as a JPG at 80-100 quality, it may only be about one tenth of that, and the quality is pretty much the same, even on a high res screen.

File size really helps when you're posting a gazillion images. Even on a fast internet connections, they add up.


----------



## ripster

I saved a screenshot of my 1920x1200 desktop.

File sizes:

JPEG 330 KB
PNG 1.88 MB
Lossless versus lossy compression.

There are some cases for small images where you "might" do better with PNG but not screenshots. We're talking 10 pixels x 10 pixels type images.

PNG is only really needed when you need to preserve transparency (and old fashioned GIF works as well).

Not sure what this has to do with keyboards but there ya go.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Well, from personal experience, you can have a PNG that is about 1MB, and when saved as a JPG at 80-100 quality, it may only be about one tenth of that, and the quality is pretty much the same, even on a high res screen.

File size really helps when you're posting a gazillion images. Even on a fast internet connections, they add up.

.jpg causes ugly color artifacts on sharp boundaries at 80%, and even at 100% it causes 1-2% changes in RGB values that, while not visually noticeable, play hell with editing images, especially when you need to do a fill or a color replacement.


----------



## ripster

Maybe. But not really related to TwoCables sig message. A screenshot rarely would be affected to the point where you couldn't read the smallest of text fine.

Plus the OCN Forum limit for uploads is 1MB so you'd have to host it somewhere else. Seems a lot of bother for a screenshot.

Quote:

Please save screenshots as a .PNG, not .JPG. The quality will be much higher while maintaining a small file size.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Maybe. But not really related to TwoCables sig message. A screenshot rarely would be affected to the point where you couldn't read the smallest of text fine.

Plus the OCN Forum limit for uploads is 1MB so you'd have to host it somewhere else. Seems a lot of bother for a screenshot.

Bookmarks -> Imageshack -> Upload -> Post.


----------



## runeazn

i hope i can buy a mech keyboard from mommy


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runeazn* 
i hope i can buy a mech keyboard from mommy









u mean ur mom use mech keyboard?


----------



## runeazn

no i mean if i can beg te money rofl.

oh yeah a quote :

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
Way to twist the reality. If you're going to call out the moderators being the bad people you should try to be right in the first place.
I agree that the reputation warning may have been a bit far out, but the other infractions make sense. You should see the reasoning behind it. If I for example say "You should buy XYZ because ABC", then that does not warrant an infraction. But if I say "You damn idiot, why is that not obvious? XYZ works better than ABC because 123", it'd warrant an infraction because you're not being courteous towards your fellow members.
I realize you're not very old but most of your "issues" are issues that are easily fixed.

Now, let's try not to talk about infractions here. If you have questions about your infractions or the infraction system, throw me a PM instead of complaining in the open forum. Nothing good comes out of it and we'll just end up having a debate of that instead.

meh i only got one real infraction since a guy flipped me rofl








5 infract points









3 are meh okay , not worth to infract me but okay.
2 were wat.....



Spoiler: fun post :/ of infract



http://www.overclock.net/water-cooli...ml#post9705890
another great one








http://www.overclock.net/water-cooli...ml#post9090403



and no sir i didnt twist reality..


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
TwoCables - on a slightly unrelated note, the last I checked, PNGs are ridiculously big, and you can't really tell the quality difference if you save the JPG at high quality.

twocables - on a slightly unrelated note, since when were PNGs smaller than JPG?

I really wish you would have just asked me in a private message instead.

But, read it again: it doesn't say that saving a screenshot as a .PNG produces a smaller file size than a .JPG. All it says is that you get a *much* higher quality (practically lossless) while maintaining a small file size. It doesn't say _smaller_; it just says _SMALL._ Does that mean that saving it as a .PNG instead of a .JPG results in a smaller file size? I mean damn, if it does then I will change it. But from what I can see, it does not say that. Were you just looking for a reason to get a reaction out of me? Maybe you were trying to impress everyone by nit-picking my signature? I dunno...

But hey, I'll humor you. Why not? As it stands, we have too many people posting screenshots as .JPGs, and the quality is so bad that there are times where it's difficult to read certain things, and difficult to tell what I'm looking at when it comes to the smaller things in the picture. This is even worse when they re-size the image (before posting it, that is) down to an impractical size for the quality that .JPG produces. It's way too fuzzy. But now if such user re-sized images were .PNGs, then it wouldn't matter as much. Hell, it probably wouldn't matter at all.

I've even had times where I tell the person that it's too fuzzy. So what do they do? They take another screenshot using the 24-bit bitmap format. Worse than that, they don't re-size it.







So even though it's lossless and looks perfect, it takes much, much, much longer to download. But a .PNG looks practically identical and has a fraction of the file size.

There. May I go now?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
On one of them it says "Interface cable is not PS2 but an unknown port -- looks like a female PS2 port." What is that...?

I apologize for the late reply, but could it be a 5-pin DIN connector? Yeah, I just now finally figured it out.


----------



## ch_123

PM so.

And for the record the -

Quote:

twocables - on a slightly unrelated note, since when were PNGs smaller than JPG?
Was typed when I misread the sig. Then went back and corrected it. Given that I rewrote it to -

Quote:

TwoCables - on a slightly unrelated note, the last I checked, PNGs are ridiculously big, and you can't really tell the quality difference if you save the JPG at high quality.
I don't see the need to address something that was changed.

And yes, that's an AT DIN connector.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
PM so.

And for the record the -

Was typed when I misread the sig. Then went back and corrected it. Given that I rewrote it to -

I don't see the need to address something that was changed.

Well hey, I just figured that it was only fair. You nit-picked my signature, so I figured that I'd give some of it right back. You see, I normally will only honor the updated version of a post; I will usually completely ignore the old version, even if somebody quoted the old version (meaning, even if I can still copy/paste it and then reply to it).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
And yes, that's an AT DIN connector.

I'm not asking what kind of connector that is in the picture. I'm asking him if the connector he is referring to is the one I found a picture of.

You see, lmnop posted this back then (6 days ago):

http://www.overclock.net/10702912-post7584.html

In this post are two different eBay items. This is the one in question:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-IBM-Mode...item1c157dfb0b

For some reason, I couldn't remember "DIN" for the life of me. But suddenly today it just popped in my head, so I Googled it to be sure. So, here we are.


----------



## ch_123

Oh right.

The thing he was referring to was actually a female PS/2 connector. There was a picture of it in the link that was provided in the post he quoted. Why it was on a Model M cable is something of a mystery.










Definitely not something that you'd confuse with an AT connector.


----------



## gonX

Simmer down please.
I don't think ch_123 is trying to get on your nerves, TwoCables. You're being way too hostile here.

*EDIT*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runeazn* 
no i mean if i can beg te money rofl.

oh yeah a quote :

meh i only got one real infraction since a guy flipped me rofl








5 infract points









3 are meh okay , not worth to infract me but okay.
2 were wat.....



Spoiler: fun post :/ of infract



http://www.overclock.net/water-cooli...ml#post9705890
another great one








http://www.overclock.net/water-cooli...ml#post9090403



and no sir i didnt twist reality..

One of them was for using text speak and the other one was because you had external links in your signature - it was just your post that ended up being warned instead which some mods do - admittedly it's easier for moderation since you can see the exact reason instead of having to search in the database of infractions.


----------



## TwoCables

I apologize for not looking at the other pictures on that eBay listing. That was out of character for me.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


Simmer down please.
I don't think ch_123 is trying to get on your nerves, TwoCables. You're being way too hostile here.


Considering what has gone down over the past 24-48 hours, I disagree. Put yourself in your shoes: wouldn't you be a little bit suspicious? Look through the posts and tell me: does it not look like he was just trying to get a reaction out of me?

Yeah, maybe it turns out that I was wrong and that he was just genuinely curious. But let's not forget that people on this message board seem to enjoy trolling me more than they enjoy trolling anyone else.


----------



## ch_123

In all honesty, if I wanted to troll people, I could find better places to do it.

And yes, the original version of my post may have sounded hostile, but that is largely to do with the fact that I've been quite busy the past 2-3 days between whenever I've been online, and in my less than ideally rested state I cannot guarantee that what I read and what people have written are one and the same... Besides, if someone had a forum sig that actually said that PNGs are smaller than JPGs, you too would be like "***?"


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


In all honesty, if I wanted to troll people, I could find better places to do it.

And yes, the original version of my post may have sounded hostile, but that is largely to do with the fact that I've been quite busy the past 2-3 days between whenever I've been online, and in my less than ideally rested state I cannot guarantee that what I read and what people have written are one and the same... Besides, if someone had a forum sig that actually said that PNGs are smaller than JPGs, you too would be like "***?"


And plus, with the way things were going, I was expecting to be trolled. And I was expecting that whoever decided to troll me was going to be willing to use anything just to see if they could get a response out of me.

So, I apologize too.


----------



## KipH

To continue OT: TwoCables, I read your sig to mean about the same size. "while maintaining a small file size." sounds like about the same to me. It made me think about it and I tried saving as .png the next time I snipped something (best tool in winders them scissor are!) but it did not make a big diff. For me most screen shots the quality ins not and issues but size could be. But it worked and you got me thinking about it.

And when I hear DIN I immediately think of scuba tank connections. Just the random thought.

But as to USB vs PS/2, We have to say, what is the point of having such a thing as NKRO if you limit it to but 6+4 or so. That would be like having a Ferrari and only being able to drive 100Km/h on the highways... Doh!


----------



## ch_123

Think about it - when you're playing a game, you usually hold the mouse in one hand, and and have five fingers to press keys on the keyboard. 6 + 4 mods is probably enough for the average finger count of 5


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


But as to USB vs PS/2, We have to say, what is the point of having such a thing as NKRO if you limit it to but 6+4 or so. That would be like having a Ferrari and only being able to drive 100Km/h on the highways... Doh!


That's exactly the point; there's little to no use for full NKRO other than the 'neat' factor.

The same could be said of a Ferrari. That speed isn't very useful or practical, but it's fun.


----------



## ch_123

The other issue is that if you designed a game that actually needed NKRO in order to play properly, people would just think that you designed the game improperly. Given that games work fine on people's normal keyboards, it says a lot about the 'necessity' of NKRO.

Nonetheless, it's a good way of definitely getting rid of ghosting and blocking issues.


----------



## gonX

Work normally? I dunno... sometimes I walk (shift), check the scoreboard (tab) while movingforward (w) and boom, all of a sudden I can't strafe left (a). That's 4 keys, which is less than 6+4. People just don't notice it that much.
I'd enjoy a keyboard with full NKRO.

Oh, also. Frets of Fire (Guitar Hero clone) really needs 5 keys, even though you can get away with just 3 keys in most songs. Unfortunately, not even that is enough for certain combinations - I used F1-F5 and later on F5-F9 because the latter had better rollover.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


To continue OT: TwoCables, I read your sig to mean about the same size. "while maintaining a small file size." sounds like about the same to me. It made me think about it and I tried saving as .png the next time I snipped something (best tool in winders them scissor are!) but it did not make a big diff. For me most screen shots the quality ins not and issues but size could be. But it worked and you got me thinking about it.


Good call. I think that I can eventually come up with a better way to word that without making it any longer. I mean you're right: when focusing on the fact that I said "while _maintaining_ a small file size", it really does sound like I'm saying _"Without ending up with a file that's bigger than the .JPG"_.

Or, I could just remove this line. But I've noticed that now when I ask for a screenshot, it's much more common for me to get a .PNG instead of a fuzzy .JPG.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


And when I hear DIN I immediately think of scuba tank connections. Just the random thought.

But as to USB vs PS/2, We have to say, what is the point of having such a thing as NKRO if you limit it to but 6+4 or so. That would be like having a Ferrari and only being able to drive 100Km/h on the highways... Doh!


If there's no choice, then there's no choice. Like, if I couldn't get my USB to PS/2 adapter to to work just because my motherboard manufacturer didn't put any effort into making sure it has a good PS/2 connector, then I'd have no choice even though my intention was to have full NKRO.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


The other issue is that if you designed a game that actually needed NKRO in order to play properly, people would just think that you designed the game improperly. Given that games work fine on people's normal keyboards, it says a lot about the 'necessity' of NKRO.

Nonetheless, it's a good way of definitely getting rid of ghosting issues.


It's also a good way of getting rid of key rollover issues.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


Work normally? I dunno... sometimes I walk (shift), check the scoreboard (tab) while movingforward (w) and boom, all of a sudden I can't strafe left (a). That's 4 keys, which is less than 6+4. People just don't notice it that much.
I'd enjoy a keyboard with full NKRO.

Oh, also. Frets of Fire (Guitar Hero clone) really needs 5 keys, even though you can get away with just 3 keys in most songs. Unfortunately, not even that is enough for certain combinations - I used F1-F5 and later on F5-F9 because the latter had better rollover.


But that's your keyboards fault, not USB's. Unless that was your point.. I kinda' didn't find your point. <_<


----------



## mondalaci

The statement that USB is not capable of full NKRO is not true.

The statement that current USB keyboards are not capable of full NKRO because of their limited ASIC (application-specific integrated circuit) is true, however.

Full NKRO can be achieved by USB (without using any special drivers on the host) by the combination of 1) maximizing HID descriptor endpoint bank size, 2) using more keyboard interface descriptors and 3) sending multiple packets per reports.

I'm not sure about which of these solutions are fully compatible with the current USB HID drivers of existing OSes but I'm pretty sure that there are combinations that are 100% compatible.

I'm chasing down this problem for a long time and it's just one of the many unique features of the mechanical keyboard that we're creating.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Which company do you work with again?


----------



## KipH

I think I can speak for everyone in this thread mondalaci, that: We want this keyboard and we want it now! Tell us everything you know.


----------



## Genkaz92

I have yet another question. Is there a single keyboard that uses Black Alps which is even remotely comparable to Deck 82 in size or quality?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Nope, not to my knowledge. If there is it's rare and vintage.


----------



## Genkaz92

Also, how long does it usually take to get stuff from Ebay? I have been waiting for clearly more then the standard 3 day UPS delivery time now for the model M.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Also, how long does it usually take to get stuff from Ebay? I have been waiting for clearly more then the standard 3 day UPS delivery time now for the model M.

Depends on the seller. From really slow ones, expect 3 days before they even ship it out, then add the regular shipping time based on description. Usually no worse than a week total for most sellers.


----------



## Genkaz92

And yet another question, why exactly are the MX blues bad for gaming? Do they genuinely decrease gaming performance? Was shoving MX blues in the Black Widow a bad choice by Razer?


----------



## Genkaz92

One more thing, earlier I did not fully understand why people meant by linear switches often being too fatiguing for fingers, but now I definitely do. Quite often when typing extensive amounts of text, I literally forget to hit a key or finish a particular word purely due to the fact that my fingers are tired, except the better term for that state would rather be "drunk" then tired.

I am assuming that model M will solve this problem due to the tactile and smoother nature of it.


----------



## W4LNUT5

MX Blues and gaming is only an issue with double tapping, and only for some people.

Its simply an issue of actuation point vs reset point. The reset point is higher than the actuation point, so they need to release the key more than they are in order for the blues to double tap properly. Most people just about fully release a key while double tapping, and thus have no problems with blues.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
MX Blues and gaming is only an issue with double tapping, and only for some people.

Its simply an issue of actuation point vs reset point. The reset point is higher than the actuation point, so they need to release the key more than they are in order for the blues to double tap properly. Most people just about fully release a key while double tapping, and thus have no problems with blues.

Which tactile/clicky keys would you recommend for gaming? So far we have established that Buckling Springs appear to be more then acceptable for gaming and excellent for typing.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Which tactile/clicky keys would you recommend for gaming? So far we have established that Buckling Springs appear to be more then acceptable for gaming and excellent for typing.

Brown or clear if you want some tactility.

I would also like to reiterate that it's not just double tapping. I can't use blue switches for any game with player movement on the keyboard, even when there is absolutely no double tapping involved.


----------



## Marin

I can.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marin* 
I can.









I demand you edit a gold star into your avatar







.

From the sound of the posts that have been in this thread, it sounds like about 80-90% of people don't have a problem with blue switches. So it's a small gamble if you game a lot.

I think Razer's switch choice was based purely based on how obviously different the blues are from rubber domes. From one keypress, people will go "wow that's cool", instead of wondering the difference. I don't think the performance of the key was as important to them, as the blues would probably sell more keyboards.


----------



## Genkaz92

I do game quite extensively, obviously enough my next subject of the keyboard research will be the model M, I might then purchase the Unicomp Spavesaver in the future if I am completely satisfied with buckling springs (not definite). If by any chance I am not satisfied, then I will have to attempt a number of other switches. I am actually not too certain if the BS are absolutely the best tactile switches for gaming, but once again apparently they are more then acceptable.

Are there any relatively compact clear or brown keyboards out there? I was also wondering whether there were any other compact alternatives to the Unicomp SpaceSaver buckling springs wise.

I highly enjoy the idea of having a very compact high quality mechanical keyboard that would serve me as a lengthy companion, similar to the Deck 82 but with switches that I actually enjoy both gaming and typing on. The Deck was absolutely fantastic for gaming, but kind of awkward to type on, I would constantly miss keys, hit the wrong keys, type generally slower, and overall feel "alien" when typing on it.

The Deck would have most likely been a flawless choice for me if it used Black Alps, but apparently they are considered to be rather ancient switches, and have various other reasons for not being available on various keyboards such as the Deck.

It really is a relative ripoff that I might have missed keyboarding perfection by it not existing, perhaps a Deck 82 with Black Alps exists in one of the alternative universes, but due to my unfortunate inability of reaching it, I am forced to look for other keyboards.

Generally, with my linear switch experiences so far, I will most likely start leaning in the tactile/clicky direction, although frankly getting the model M might be more then enough for me, the only issue with it predicted so far would certainly be the size.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
I have yet another question. Is there a single keyboard that uses Black Alps which is even remotely comparable to Deck 82 in size or quality?

Buy a Filco Zero and solder in Black Alps switches.

Seriously, I wouldn't get a hard on over Black Alps until you've tried some other switches first. They're not popular for a reason.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Buy a Filco Zero and solder in Black Alps switches.

Seriously, I wouldn't get a hard on over Black Alps until you've tried some other switches first. They're not popular for a reason.

It is not as much of a hard on as a pleasant improvement over MX blacks, do not get me wrong.

Just because I enjoy being dramatic in my posts does not mean that I am obsessed with something.


----------



## thisispatrick

A quick update from my Razer contact:

Quote:

As to the build quality, the BlackWidow was designed in-house by our own team and not an OEM that we just slapped the Razer brand on. I'm aware there's been a lot of speculation on the forums about this even before anyone's got their hands on an actual review unit. At the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding so I'll leave it up to you to see the quality and all the gaming features of the BlackWidow for yourself. =)


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
A quick update from my Razer contact:

Makes me want it even more


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frickfrock99* 
Makes me want it even more









Waiting for my review unit to come in


----------



## lmnop

Patty attach this to your next message


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Patty attach this to your next message

























Will do when I get home. Currently sitting in POL1001, might take a nap first.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Will do when I get home. Currently sitting in POL1001, might take a nap first.

iOne had a hand in the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate perhaps they bought the design from them. the iOne Scorpius M10BL was designed a couple years ago. too much of a coincidence. Tron Font, Icons, Layout, LED, Windows Key, Functions, etc. all iOne keyboards have a small L-Windows Key it's like a trademark.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Razer marketing division lies like a rug. They may have modified it somewhat, but the basic keyboard was designed by iOne and is being manufactured by iOne.


----------



## lmnop

you should ask the iOne rep


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
you should ask the iOne rep









They aren't allowed to talk about other companies' products. I asked about Adesso once, he answered me indirectly by talking about iOne's QC procedures. With the type of questions I'd have to ask about Razer he'd probably just say "I don't know" or "I can't answer that".


----------



## lmnop

too bad. I like that. it's a maybe but technically yes


----------



## runeazn

do want razer keybaord if cheapo


----------



## lmnop

have your parents gone to China yet?


----------



## runeazn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
have your parents gone to China yet?

sure they did









i am wainting lil ducky


----------



## lmnop

too bad. Zippy BL-741 is a interesting keyboard. it uses scissor switches but unlike the Logitech Illuminated it has RGB LED with a couple lighting options. comes in 104, 105, 106, 107 layout.


----------



## lmnop

jesus christ I am trying to be nice if you are going to be walking tall with your g19 get the **** out of my face.


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Which company do you work with again?

I'm not sure that you addressed this question to me but I assume so. Ours is not a well known company but a small Hungarian company and the idea is that we'll manufacture and directly sell the keyboards through the web.

Also, we're not affiliated with any OEMs / ODMs which has the lovely side effect that our hands are not tied by standard keyboard solutions. That way we can truly innovate in many ways.


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
I think I can speak for everyone in this thread mondalaci, that: We want this keyboard and we want it now! Tell us everything you know.

Thanks for the encouraging words, Kip69. As for now, I rather wouldn't wish to disclose any more information because I think we're pretty much ahead of the competition in many respects. You'll know everything when the time comes.


----------



## runeazn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


jesus christ I am trying to be nice if you are going to be walking tall with your g19 get the **** out of my face.


i know your tryingt o be nice but if RGB lighting is the onliest thing thats special, then its meh keyboard ;/


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *runeazn*


i know your tryingt o be nice but if RGB lighting is the onliest thing thats special, then its meh keyboard ;/


Lol and the G19 is special how? For being the most overpriced keyboard on the market?


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *runeazn*


sure they did









i am wainting lil ducky


















12 year old chinese kid here.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mondalaci*


The statement that USB is not capable of full NKRO is not true.

The statement that current USB keyboards are not capable of full NKRO because of their limited ASIC (application-specific integrated circuit) is true, however.

Full NKRO can be achieved by USB (without using any special drivers on the host) by the combination of 1) maximizing HID descriptor endpoint bank size, 2) using more keyboard interface descriptors and 3) sending multiple packets per reports.

I'm not sure about which of these solutions are fully compatible with the current USB HID drivers of existing OSes but I'm pretty sure that there are combinations that are 100% compatible.

I'm chasing down this problem for a long time and it's just one of the many unique features of the mechanical keyboard that we're creating.


I've seen this done with a home-made adapter for a non-PC keyboard that is capable of NKRO. The issue he had, IIRC, is to do with how the keyboard reacts to it before the OS is loaded. It effectively meant that the thing would only work if you plugged it in when the OS was booted.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

People in NOLA may get to look at that engineering sample I'm getting from XArmor, since I'm going to be taking it out in various public locales to see how the noise bothers people, and also to see how strangers react to the feel of the keyboard. So if anyone is near NOLA or desperate enough to get a look at what's coming up to get a flight down here, let me know.









Odds of anyone saying "yes" = 1/10,000


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



As to the build quality, the BlackWidow was designed in-house by our own team and not an OEM that we just slapped the Razer brand on. I'm aware there's been a lot of speculation on the forums about this even before anyone's got their hands on an actual review unit. At the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding so I'll leave it up to you to see the quality and all the gaming features of the BlackWidow for yourself. =)


Ok, it's not _identical_ to the XArmor, but it's largely the same thing with a few differences here and there. It's about as much of a Razer keyboard as the Das is a Metadot keyboard.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runeazn* 
i know your tryingt o be nice but if RGB lighting is the onliest thing thats special, then its meh keyboard ;/

I'll grant you that it looks really cool and has several neat features, but at the end of the day, it's still just an overpriced rubber dome keyboard.


----------



## Genkaz92

Currently typing on the model M, it is really freaking loud, even noticeable with my sound isolation headphones on.
I do not understand what is so tactile about it so far, it has a perfectly linear feel to it, the only difference is the supposed slight click at the end a milimeter before it bottoms out. In other words, it does not appear to be possible not to bottom out on this thing, perhaps I am misunderstanding something about the principle of it being tactile, or perhaps I am simply so used to bottoming out that I need to practice not to do so.

It is extremely comfortable and generally has extremely well balanced ergonomis and excellent key feel.

it clearly appears to be increasing my accuracy so far, and generally appears to increase my typing speed, or at the very least match the one that I had on my ruber dome.

It is clearly built like a tank, and will most likely withstand virtually any key pounding that is thrown at it.

I was under the impression that being tactile meant that the keyboard actually has a noticeable distance between the key hit actually being registered and the actual bottoming out of the key, so far this thing simply appears to feel like a linear mechanical switch with a certain click at the end.

It is pretty large, and relatively heavy for a keyboard.

I received the mouse bungee at exactly the same time as this keyboard, and so far it is virtually flawless.

Please tell me what you think.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Currently typing on the model M, it is really freaking loud, even noticeable with my sound isolation headphones on.
I do not understand what is so tactile about it so far, it has a perfectly linear feel to it, the only difference is the supposed slight click at the end a milimeter before it bottoms out. In other words, it does not appear to be possible not to bottom out on this thing, perhaps I am misunderstanding something about the principle of it being tactile, or perhaps I am simply so used to bottoming out that I need to practice not to do so.

It is extremely comfortable and generally has extremely well balanced ergonomis and excellent key feel.

it clearly appears to be increasing my accuracy so far, and generally appears to increase my typing speed, or at the very least match the one that I had on my ruber dome.

It is clearly built like a tank, and will most likely withstand virtually any key pounding that is thrown at it.

I was under the impression that being tactile meant that the keyboard actually has a noticeable distance between the key hit actually being registered and the actual bottoming out of the key, so far this thing simply appears to feel like a linear mechanical switch with a certain click at the end.

It is pretty large, and relatively heavy for a keyboard.

I received the mouse bungee at exactly the same time as this keyboard, and so far it is virtually flawless.

Please tell me what you think.

Hmm. Well "tactile" refers to a bit of resistance that is felt for a moment during the downward travel of the keystroke. But if you're not feeling it, then perhaps this is normal for the Buckling Springs. I mean, perhaps this tactile feedback is much more rounded instead of being distinct and/or crisp.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Hmm. Well "tactile" refers to a bit of resistance that is felt for a moment during the downward travel of the keystroke. But if you're not feeling it, then perhaps this is normal for the Buckling Springs. I mean, perhaps this tactile feedback is much more rounded instead of being distinct and/or crisp.

I do sense a certain amount of resistance when pressing it, it actually feels quite nice. I am still not certain what people meant by "not bottoming out" a tactile key, so far I am under the impression that buckling springs were designed to be bottomed out, it is definitely not a bad thing though, I already appear to be liking these things better then MX blacks, they are generally smoother, and have an overall nicer smoother feel to it while being very responsive and pleasant at the same time. I am also ridiculously accurate on this keyboard so far, I typed this whole paragraph without virtually making a single spelling error.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
I do sense a certain amount of resistance when pressing it, it actually feels quite nice. I am still not certain what people meant by "not bottoming out" a tactile key, so far I am under the impression that buckling springs were designed to be bottomed out, it is definitely not a bad thing though, I already appear to be liking these things better then MX blacks, they are generally smoother, and have an overall nicer smoother feel to it while being very responsive and pleasant at the same time. I am also ridiculously accurate on this keyboard so far, I typed this whole paragraph without virtually making a single spelling error.

I make far fewer typographical errors on my Filco Majestouch Tactile Click as well. That was actually one of the first things I noticed when I switched from rubber dome to the Tactile Click. And then when I started hovering my wrists while typing, my accuracy improved even more. Now the only time I make a typographical error is just from being human. I mean, typos are no longer caused by my keyboard!

Regarding bottoming out: now that I've seen your description of the way it feels to type on the Model M and how it seems to be difficult to avoid bottoming out, this animating gif makes much more sense to me:










It made sense before, but I can actually clearly see what you're talking about. So damn: you are very, very good at explaining things.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I make far fewer typographical errors on my Filco Majestouch Tactile Click as well. That was actually one of the first things I noticed when I switched from rubber dome to the Tactile Click. And then when I started hovering my wrists while typing, my accuracy improved even more. Now the only time I make a typographical error is just from being human. I mean, typos are no longer caused by my keyboard!

Regarding bottoming out: now that I've seen your description of the way it feels to type on the Model M and how it seems to be difficult to avoid bottoming out, this animating gif makes much more sense to me:

It made sense before, but I can actually clearly see what you're talking about. So damn: you are very, very good at explaining things.









Thank you good sir, I will definitely report my experiences with this keyboard when I am more used to it. So far I am already significantly more comfortable with it, and find it extremely enjoyable to type on.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Thank you good sir, I will definitely report my experiences with this keyboard when I am more used to it. So far I am already significantly more comfortable with it, and find it extremely enjoyable to type on.

You're welcome!! I'm very happy to see that this ended up being a good experience.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
You're welcome!! I'm very happy to see that this ended up being a good experience.

A few individuals in geekhack are telling me that I might have gotten a relatively old one with mushy springs if I cannot feel the "enormous tactile rift" on this keyboard, I am not fully certain. I was honestly under the impression that one of the whole points of of tactile keys was to have a capacity of pushing them halfway instead of fully "bottoming them out", as opposed to simply having a certain amount of resistance unlike various linear keys.

I probably am misunderstanding something in this area, because so far the keyboard is still exceptionally comfortable.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
A few individuals in geekhack are telling me that I might have gotten a relatively old one with mushy springs if I cannot feel the "enormous tactile rift" on this keyboard, I am not fully certain. I was honestly under the impression that one of the whole points of of tactile keys was to have a capacity of pushing them halfway instead of fully "bottoming them out", as opposed to simply having a certain amount of resistance unlike various linear keys.

I have to agree with them about the possibility of this just being an older, more worn-out Model M. I was going to mention it before, but I was not 100% sure. So the fact that some people over at Geek Hack have said it basically tells me that I must've been right all along. I mean, I suppose that it only makes sense since it is an old keyboard to begin with.

Speaking of its age: what is the date shown on the bottom of it? I think that there's a date printed on a sticker that's on either all of the Model Ms, or at least most of them. This won't be an ultra-accurate way in determining if it's the keyboard's age that has made it feel this worn out, but it can be a general idea. I mean, I would say that another possible reason for it feeling like this is it may have been used every single day for like 8-10 hours per day.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I have to agree with them about the possibility of this just being an older, more worn-out Model M. I was going to mention it before, but I was not 100% sure. So the fact that some people over at Geek Hack have said it basically tells me that I must've been right all along. I mean, I suppose that it only makes sense since it is an old keyboard to begin with.

Speaking of its age: what is the date shown on the bottom of it? I think that there's a date printed on a sticker that's on either all of the Model Ms, or at least most of them. This won't be an ultra-accurate way in determining if it's the keyboard's age that has made it feel this worn out, but it can be a general idea. I mean, I would say that another possible reason for it feeling like this is it may have been used every single day for like 8-10 hours per day.

It says 1994, which means that this thing should still be theoretically fully functional, especially considering the fact that there are still plenty of functional 1986 models.

Perhaps the past owner of this thing was some type of an extremely rigorous and requiring typer which virtually used this thing 24/7.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
It says 1994, which means that this thing should still be theoretically fully functional, especially considering the fact that there are still plenty of functional 1986 models.

Perhaps the past owner of this thing was some type of an extremely rigorous and requiring typer which virtually used this thing 24/7.

That's what I'm thinking. I mean, this is reminding me that I was in a computer class back in high school (1994-1998) that had a Model M at every computer. These Model Ms took a very serious beating every day. So perhaps you got that kind of a Model M. Or, it could have been used for alpha-numeric data entry.

Either way, considering the condition it's in, I'm impressed by it because you're still saying good things about it!


----------



## Genkaz92

I am honestly not sure, I could go as far as purchasing something as a Unicomp SpaceSaver to be absolutely positive that I have a fully functional buckling spring keyboard, but in all honesty I am extremely comfortable with this one so far. If it is this comfortable to type on a supposedly worn model M, then it must be an absolute heaven to type on a brand new buckling spring keyboard. But once again I may be misunderstanding the theoretical properties that this keyboard is supposed to have.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Ms wearing out has more to do with the rivets holding the steel plates together. Those rivets pop and fall out eventually. Usually older boards have more popped rivets. However, an M that was used and abused in an environment with an unstable temperature could have quite a few popped rivets as well.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Ms wearing out has more to do with the rivets holding the steel plates together. Those rivets pop and fall out eventually. Usually older boards have more popped rivets. However, an M that was used and abused in an environment with an unstable temperature could have quite a few popped rivets as well.

What is the best way to check for them? should I simply shake it a little bit?


----------



## ch_123

Best way is to get a 5.5mm nut driver and open the case and inspect the plate for lost rivets.

EDIT: I've actually experience what you've described on a Model M before. It was caused by a hammer on one of the keys coming loose from it's holder. Mine was bolt-modded when I got it, and I reassembled it after I fixed something on the membrane, but in your case with a stock Model M, it could well be to do with rivets coming loose. Is the feel of the keys consistent across the keyboard?

Also, where did you get the keyboard from?


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Best way is to get a 5.5mm nut driver and open the case and inspect the plate for lost rivets.

EDIT: I've actually experience what you've described on a Model M before. It was caused by a hammer on one of the keys coming loose from it's holder. Mine was bolt-modded when I got it, and I reassembled it after I fixed something on the membrane, but in your case with a stock Model M, it could well be to do with rivets coming loose. Is the feel of the keys consistent across the keyboard?

Also, where did you get the keyboard from?

The keyboard was received from this seller: link

I will certainly inspect it, and will report the results.


----------



## ch_123

A 42H1292 from 1994? Are you sure?

A good way to check loose hammers is as thus - remove the keycap so that the spring is exposed. Tilt the keyboard back and forward slowly and see if the spring moves. If not, get a narrow flathead screwdriver and poke the hammer with it (if you look down the barrel, the hammer is the thing on which the spring rests, depending on the year and place of manufacturer, it will either be black, white or possibly translucent). If the spring either doesn't move when you tilt the keyboard around, or the hammer moves around when you poke at it with the screwdriver, it means that it's come loose from its housing. Unfortunately, in a Model M, accessing them is something that requires a lot of effort.


----------



## ch_123

It is important to note though that on a Model M, the tactile point is very close to the bottom of the travel. I always bottom out on mine, and I'd imagine most people who type on them do. The older Model Fs are springier and thus not bottoming out on them is more feasible.

The tactility should be quite pronounced nonetheless, if you reckon it to be less tactile than your Black Alps, it would be rather unusual.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
A 42H1292 from 1994? Are you sure?

A good way to check loose hammers is as thus - remove the keycap so that the spring is exposed. Tilt the keyboard back and forward slowly and see if the spring moves. If not, get a narrow flathead screwdriver and poke the hammer with it (if you look down the barrel, the hammer is the thing on which the spring rests, depending on the year and place of manufacturer, it will either be black, white or possibly translucent). If the spring either doesn't move when you tilt the keyboard around, or the hammer moves around when you poke at it with the screwdriver, it means that it's come loose from its housing. Unfortunately, in a Model M, accessing them is something that requires a lot of effort.

Thank you very much for telling me, I unscrewed the keyboard and inspected a number of switches using your method. The hammers that this keyboard uses appear to be translucent, they first created an illusion of being green due to them having a certain green platform underneath. I poked the actual hammers with a relatively small flat head screwdriver. Most of them were indeed very fluid-ish and extremely easy to move around, absolutely all of the keys that I inspected had a very easy to move around hammer, none of them appeared to be even remotely solid whatsoever. The manufacturer of this thing is apparently Lexmark, by the way.


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
I've seen this done with a home-made adapter for a non-PC keyboard that is capable of NKRO. The issue he had, IIRC, is to do with how the keyboard reacts to it before the OS is loaded. It effectively meant that the thing would only work if you plugged it in when the OS was booted.

It must have been some implementation-specific limitation on his part. USB should be able to provide N-key rollover when plugging the keyboard any time.


----------



## ch_123

IIRC, the issue was that a lot of mobos don't implement USB keyboards pre-boot in the way that they should have. He had trouble with the switchover from BIOS control to OS control.

@Genkaz: Was it made in 1994, or was it made in 1995? If it was made in 1994, it would be the earliest one of those Model Ms I've ever heard, and they're quite significant because the 42H1292 was a modernization of the Model M design.

Playing around with my Model Ms, I've actually noticed that some degree of movement with the hammers when you poke at them is normal, and it's hard for me to quantify what degree of movement is normal and what degree is not. The test whereby you tilt the keyboard back and forward to see if the spring moves is a much more accurate test. If the spring moves so that it rests against the bottom of the barrel when you tilt it forward, and against the top when you tilt it backwards, it's normal.

I am somewhat suspcious at this stage that the Model M may be operating in a completely normal manner, and that you are just finding it quite different to the Black Alps. There is a good distance of almost-linear movement in the buckling spring before it actuates, as the graph on the first page shows.

The other thing that sounds odd is the 'green' underneath, as directly under neath the hammers is a black rubber sheet. Perhaps they were using a greenish sheet when they made your keyboard? Not sure.

Oh, and when you are reinserting Model M keycaps, hold the keyboard upside-down. It makes sure the springs line up with the keycaps properly.


----------



## Genkaz92

I clearly do feel the actuation point shortly before the actual bottoming out of the key, my point was that it appears to be impossible to not bottom out the keys when typing on them. I did tilt the keyboard a bunch of times when testing the keys as well, for the most part I indeed recall the springs resting. Perhaps you could describe in detail exactly how a surely working model M feels to a finger? Also, under which circumstances is the nuts and bolts mod necessary?


----------



## ch_123

Some linear travel up to a pronounced tactile point. Given that you have to exert a lot of force to get over that point, you will almost certainly bottom out.

I think what happened here is that you are used to the linear switches in your Deck, and the Black Alps with the tactile point up near the top of the travel, and thus found the buckling spring to be quite different. I misread your description as a description of a problem I had with a Model M I was fixing so I jumped to conclusions. Long story short - everything is ok







The odds are that if there was actually a problem with the Model M, it would be hideous to type on.

Nut and bolt mod is needed when a large number of plastic rivets have broken off.


----------



## ch_123

Comparison of lasered Das keys with pad printed Filco keys


----------



## lmnop

I like the piece at the bottom. bastard!


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Comparison of lasered Das keys with pad printed Filco keys


Meh...Good info.


----------



## ch_123

The ultimate point here is that Laser != indestructible. In fact, Ripster's tests show that some laser keys are of inferior durability to pad printed ones (albeit perhaps in a not-entirely realistic scenario)

You could do all that to any dye sub or double shot key and the lettering would still be there.


----------



## lmnop

I know that. I am talking about this.

Quote:



You WILL see monthly "OMG My Lettering Has Disappeared" posts like this one at OCN.

I've had my Das Keyboard Professional S for a few weeks now and I notice that the lettering on some of the keys is already starting to wear off. Is this typical? I opted for the version of the keyboard with the lettering, mostly for the lesser used keys.


----------



## ch_123

I wasn't referring to your post, merely ruminating on the topic in general.

Can I have an IBM moment?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:

Everybody has a different body chemistry, cleanliness pattern, and *probably some of you have girlyman smooth fingers* so this whole discussion may be irrelevant.
Oh, oh! Me, me! I don't know if I'm proud or ashamed.


----------



## lmnop

<hurls a serial mouse at irish>

OCN is potty trained and can read.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
<hurls a serial mouse at irish>

OCN is potty trained and can read.










?


----------



## lmnop

hideous cereal monster.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 








?

lol


----------



## Phaedrus2129

*GUYS, GUYS

BEST DEAL EVAR*

http://cgi.ebay.com/I-ROCKS-KR-6230-...item3a594ee0b3


----------



## Drakan290

Hey everyone I had a kind of technical question...
I've been getting more and more into programming and less and less into PC gaming. Consoles seem to quench my need for gaming so I was thinking of upgrading to a higher quality keyboard than what I currently have.

That said, does anyone here have/have used a Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional 2 (The one on Elitekeyboards)?
I was wondering how hard it is to get used to the strange key layout as compared to a regular keyboard, and how hard it is to switch back (my work involves typing on regular styled keyboards daily)
Secondly, I was wondering if it could handle the occasional gaming session, non-FPS, just strategy or RPGs.


----------



## Genkaz92

I am thinking of preforming a random experiment by attempting a series of finger strengthening exercises in order to improve my typing performance, it will be more of a scientific experiment then anything, I am curious what I could achieve by regularly strengthening my fingers using various techniques such as finger push ups.

I will undoubtedly report the results and tell you how my random experiment goes.

I will also post the results to my mouse hand swap experiment, In which I will attempt to switch hands for my mouse usage due to me actually being left handed which should theoretically improve my aim in various gaming environments.

So far I am quite liking the model M, it certainly does have a wonderful typing feel and general dynamics of the keys. In some ways it reminds me of typing on a rubber dome, except much more responsive, firmer, and tactile, it somehow has a very similar linear feel, yet it does not.

I am really not too sure if purchasing a Unicomp spacesaver is even necessary at this point, this thing will most likely last me forever, and so far does not cause any difficulties whatsoever, unless ofcourse I will be somehow forced to migrate to a different location in which keyboard space is significantly more limited, this thing is not necessarily the smallest keyboard.

In some ways I am fascinated by the IBM model M mini, but they appear to be relatively rare, difficult to get around, and ridiculously expensive.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I had my family (mom, step-dad, sister, grandma) all sit down and try out my keyboards. I let them try everything in my collection plus an MX blue board, and all four of them picked the buckling springs as their favorites, followed by MX blues, browns, the NMB rubber dome, and MY switches in various order. My grandmother said it reminded her of typewriters; my sister said "it just feels right". My mother complained about the MX blues hurting her fingers (bottoming out?) and said the SMKs felt "sticky". Jeff gave no reasons, but praised the Model M on its solid feeling.

Four people with no interest in keyboards, and they all immediately picked the IBM Model M as their favorite. IBM got something right.









I'm gonna get my grandma a Customizer 104 for Christmas. I'll see if Unicomp will put give it a bigger font.


----------



## Genkaz92

That is very interesting.

I would be very happy if someone proved me wrong about the model M mini and actually told me that they are relatively easy to get, but I was probably correct.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Minis sell for north of $150 used, north of $300 new. There's usually at least one crazy holdout, and when there's two things get... interesting.


----------



## Genkaz92

I honestly cannot even find one on Ebay at this very moment. I only saw one on Ebay a few days ago, and it was somewhere around 300$ as far as I recall.


----------



## thiru

I dreamt that I was in a shop that sold mechanical keyboards last night







(there are none in France)...


----------



## GeforceGTS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I dreamt that I was in a shop that sold mechanical keyboards last night







(there are none in France)...

lol, I actually had a dream that I bought a Deck for Â£15 a few days ago, so sad.


----------



## Genkaz92

I had a dream about having a tree near my house which grew model M mini's on its branches. If those model m mini's became full sized model M's, that meant that they were too ripe. I am not being serious ofcourse, it it is still an entertaining thought, a large quantity of keyboard enthusiasts would probably hang around it.


----------



## GeforceGTS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
I had a dream about having a tree near my house which grew model M mini's on it's branches. If those model m mini's became full sized model M's, that meant that they were too ripe. I am not being serious ofcourse, it it is still an entertaining thought, a large quantity of keyboard enthusiasts would probably hang around it.

The geekhackers would build a fence around it and keep them all to themselves


----------



## Arvin

Doesn't really warrant a thread, so I will post it here.

Does the Filco keyboard work on a Mac?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drakan290* 
That said, does anyone here have/have used a Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional 2 (The one on Elitekeyboards)?
I was wondering how hard it is to get used to the strange key layout as compared to a regular keyboard, and how hard it is to switch back (my work involves typing on regular styled keyboards daily)
Secondly, I was wondering if it could handle the occasional gaming session, non-FPS, just strategy or RPGs.

I have one, it's probably my single favorite keyboard. The layout is relatively easy to adapt to (and you can make some alterations to it with the DIP switches) although it took me a while to get used to the location of PgUp/PgDwn/Home/End.

I use it for FPS gaming quite a bit because it is compact enough to let me have my Steelseries SX on the same desk, and yet the Fn lets you acess numpad functions, which is something I need for some games. The main drawback is that you need to press Fn + Number to get F keys, and if the game you're playing needs F keys, that can be an issue.

As it is a capacitive keyboard, it has six key rollover.

*@Arvin:* yes.

Quote:

The geekhackers would build a fence around it and keep them all to themselves
Damn right we would!

Every once in a while, someone who doesn't really know what they are selling will sell an SSK at around $75 or so. The $200-300 ones are new in box.

I got my SSK for free =D


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arvin* 
Doesn't really warrant a thread, so I will post it here.

Does the Filco keyboard work on a Mac?

If it's USB, it should yes


----------



## Arvin

Ok thanks


----------



## ch_123

In fact, when I was fixing up an old PowerMac G4, the Filco I had at the time was the only keyboard I had that worked with the thing


----------



## Genkaz92

Typing on the model M is becoming increasingly more pleasant, so far I have absolutely zero complaints about it concerning the actual mechanics. I am also starting to actually like the buckling spring sound of the keys, and on the second thought it is really not that loud. The only thing which I would be interested in improving is the size of this thing, but currently I really have no need of purchasing a Unicomp Spacesaver, also considering the fact that I have a rather extensive crapload of keyboard tray space due to my recent mod to it which went quite successfully.

It is quite interesting that at the first glance there is no such thing as future proof in the computer world, but then you stumble upon something like this keyboard, many units of which have been found on scrap yards, and still managed to work perfectly after relatively basic refurbishing.


----------



## lmnop

this is a mechanical keyboard Zowie is launching sometime next year called the Celeritas (latin word for speed). notice the F9, F10, F11, F12 Keys have a LED in them? it's a feature that allows you to change the repeat rate 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x by altering the debounce time.

this is a feature the Northgate Omnikey Ultra had.










want to guess how old the Northgate Omnikey Ultra is?


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
this is a mechanical keyboard zowie is launching sometime next year called the celeritas (latin word for speed). Notice the f9, f10, f11, f12 keys have a led in them? It's a feature that allows you to change the repeat rate 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x by altering the debounce time.

This is a feature the northgate omnikey ultra had.

Want to guess how old the northgate omnikey ultra is?









Year 1618? Am I missing it a little bit?


----------



## lmnop

show some respect your looking at the Model M of Alps


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
show some respect your looking at the Model M of Alps









I am showing respect, I would have probably picked somewhere around the Cretaceous period if I didn't, this keyboard must have been highly popular among the Velociraptors. On a serious note, I am assuming that it is 20 years old in the very least.


----------



## anthony92

ordered my filco tenkeyless blue mx from usa today, cant wait for it to arrive


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anthony92* 
ordered my filco tenkeyless blue mx from usa today, cant wait for it to arrive

Glad to hear it good sir, would you kindly attempt to play a few quick FPS games with it just for the purpose of telling me how comfortable it is to game with? I am still relatively curious whether MX blues are for the most part uncomfortable for gaming purposes, or whether they can be comfortably used by someone afterall.


----------



## lmnop

the Northgate Omnikey Ultra is over 15 years old.

Complicated Alps in White
Double Shot Keycaps
Full NKRO
DIP switches for XT/AT
Function Keys for XT and AT Layout
Keycap Puller to change layout
Fully Programmable
Adjustable Repeat Rate
Weight 6lbs.

did I miss anything?


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
the Northgate Omnikey Ultra is over 15 years old.

Complicated Alps in White
Double Shot Keycaps
Full NKRO
DIP switches for XT/AT
Function Keys for XT and AT Layout
Keycap Puller to change layout
Fully Programmable
Adjustable Repeat Rate
Weight 6lbs.

did I miss anything?

Unfortunately I missed my guess by a few years, the official wiki page for it apparently displays one in the image that is 16 years old.

It has extremely nice features, I will certainly not lie. It must also have generally comfortable ergonomics and keys. It also looks surprisingly elegant and futuristic for being 15 years old, for the most part.


----------



## ch_123

The idea of acquiring one of those, or one of those Focus FK-5001 calculator boards is something that tempts me. That said, I'm not a huge fan of Alps keyboards, and my SGI with Blue Alps is probably more than enough Alps for me.


----------



## lmnop

I think the Northgate Omnikey Ultra was ahead of it's time. how many keyboards mechanical or other in 2010 have the functionality and quality the Northgate Omnikey Ultra has?

you can buy one refurbished for about $130. some people have picked one up at recycle or goodwill for less than $10.


----------



## Genkaz92

I would certainly not blame anyone for wanting to acquire it, although this model M should be more then enough for me personally for now.

By the way, perhaps it could be a good idea for me to check for any broken rivets just to be idiot proof nuts and bolts mod wise?


----------



## lmnop

damn skippy


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Typing on the model M is becoming increasingly more pleasant, so far I have absolutely zero complaints about it concerning the actual mechanics. I am also starting to actually like the buckling spring sound of the keys, and on the second thought it is really not that loud. The only thing which I would be interested in improving is the size of this thing, but currently I really have no need of purchasing a Unicomp Spacesaver, also considering the fact that I have a rather extensive crapload of keyboard tray space due to my recent mod to it which went quite successfully.

It is quite interesting that at the first glance there is no such thing as future proof in the computer world, but then you stumble upon something like this keyboard, many units of which have been found on scrap yards, and still managed to work perfectly after relatively basic refurbishing.

hehe every single time I tell somebody that I'll probably still be enjoying my Filco Majestouch 20 years from now, I usually end up sitting back and just going _"Wow. That's hard to imagine! I'll be 51 years old by that time!_" (although, I never actually _type_ that)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Glad to hear it good sir, would you kindly attempt to play a few quick FPS games with it just for the purpose of telling me how comfortable it is to game with? I am still relatively curious whether MX blues are for the most part uncomfortable for gaming purposes, or whether they can be comfortably used by someone afterall.

There are many people who prefer the Cherry MX Blues for gaming. There are also people who don't have a preference, but yet they say that they have absolutely no problems gaming on them. I am one of those people who have no preference and also have absolutely no problems gaming on them.

The reason why these can be a problem for some people is because the reset point is above the actuation point. So, picture this in slow motion: as the key is coming back up (as it is being released), the keystroke signal that is being sent to the computer becomes severed at a point in this vertical key travel that is higher than the point at which it activated during the downward travel. This means that double-tapping can be problematic for some people because it means that the key must be allowed to come all the way back up before that 2nd keypress during the double-tap in order to achieve two separate keypresses right in a row.

There are many professional/competitive gamers who hate this because their double-tapping technique is so polished and clean that when they double-tap, they don't allow the key to come all the way back up before the 2nd keypress of the double-tap. In other words, their finger barely moves during the double-tap. But then there are people like me who have a sloppier technique and therefore if I double-tap, then I allow the key to come all the way back up anyway. It's just natural for me because I don't care about improving it: it works for me because I am more of a casual gamer.

Another problem that can be had with the Cherry MX Blues is very similar to double-tapping, except it involves switching between keys: Crazy9000 brought it up that when switching between two keys where you require that the keystroke signal of one key is severed before the next key is pressed, using the Cherry MX Blues can result in you ending up with two keys pressed at the same time when what you actually wanted was a simple switch from one key to another (such as quickly changing directions while strafing). So, again, the key must be allowed to come all the way back up in order for the signal to be severed so that when you switch from A to D very quickly, you get exactly what you want: you suddenly change from strafing to the left, to strafing to the right.

Now, in my experience, if I am strafing to the left (holding down 'A') and decide to press 'D' without letting go of the 'A' key, then I just stop moving as though I simply stopped pressing 'A' altogether - and I have full NKRO too (yep, I am using the USB to PS/2 adapter, and it is working perfectly). But now when performing this in something like Notepad, it switches, but there is a delay. I mean, if I hold down 'A' and then press 'D' while continuing to hold down 'A', then it switches to 'D' - but only after a short delay (which is configurable in the Keyboard control panel). So, games react differently.

However, I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever had a problem with the Cherry MX Blues for either double-tapping, or when needing to quickly and instantly switch between keys such as strafing back and forth left and right. I just naturally let go of 'A' before pressing 'D' when I want to change directions. I think I've been doing it that way for about 15 years now. I remember back in the days of Descent and Descent II that when I wanted to switch strafing direction, then I would just completely let go while instantly pressing the other key so that I could instantly change direction.

In other words: only you will really know whether or not it's going to be a problem.


----------



## Genkaz92

That is definitely very interesting, the techniques of many individuals indeed vary when it comes to key mechanics, therefore I perfectly understand now why MX blues would not be preferred by someone with a smoother more fluid-like style, I am assuming that you have to be more "Isolated" in terms of key pressing style in order to use them in a comfortable manner. In all honestly I might theoretically be comfortable with them, because I usually do completely let go of a certain key before moving onto the next key (I still have my finger on it, but it usually has a fully elevated position.) I am not sure how it would handle multi key gaming operations though, for example if I wanted to create a diagonal motion by using s and a at the same time, or w and d. As long as they are more or less tolerant towards that, then I might have felt comfortable with them if I got around using them.

So far I am coming to conclusion that I would have most likely been comfortable with them in most gaming environments, also considering the fact that I have a relatively isolated style of pushing keys even when I am repeatedly pounding them using quick multi key pushing motions.

I suppose that in the very end buckling springs are a better universal choice for gaming though, these these wonderful thingies are accepting towards virtually any typing style, except perhaps someone who prefers a high actuation point.

If someone were to pick two mechanical switch opposites, would MX blues and buckling springs come quite close in that area? I am talking about picking opposites in the same category of clicky and tactile keys, not in the whole mechanical key spectrum.

Also, I would like to ask once again whether it is a good idea to preform a precaution diagnostic on my keyboard in the area of the nuts and bolts mod. I actually already opened this thing up before to check for defective hammers, and other possible switch difficulties, but somehow did not examine the actual bottom of the device whatsoever.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
That is definitely very interesting, the techniques of many individuals indeed vary when it comes to key mechanics, therefore I perfectly understand now why MX blues would not be preferred by someone with a smoother more fluid-like style, I am assuming that you have to be more "Isolated" in terms of key pressing style in order to use them in a comfortable manner. In all honestly I might theoretically be comfortable with them, because I usually do completely let go of a certain key before moving onto the next key (I still have my finger on it, but it usually has a fully elevated position.) I am not sure how it would handle multi key gaming operations though, for example if I wanted to create a diagonal motion by using s and a at the same time, or w and d. As long as they are more or less tolerant towards that, then I might have felt comfortable with them if I got around using them.

Regarding moving in circles (or, more of a diamond pattern really) with just the WASD keys, that is completely unaffected because it's actually desirable to always have two keys pressed as you move around inside the WASD keys in order to move around in circles (or in a diamond pattern) with only the WASD keys. And oddly enough, I did test it while I was making my post above, but for some reason I decided that it wasn't worth mentioning. I guess I figured my post was long enough already.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
So far I am coming to conclusion that I would have most likely been comfortable with them in most gaming environments, also considering the fact that I have a relatively isolated style of pushing keys even when I am repeatedly pounding them using quick multi key pushing motions.

By "isolated", do you mean allowing the key to come all the way back up before pressing it down again - such as the way I describe I double-tap?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
I suppose that in the very end buckling springs are a better universal choice for gaming though, these these wonderful thingies are accepting towards virtually any typing style, except perhaps someone who prefers a high actuation point.

If someone were to pick two mechanical switch opposites, would MX blues and buckling springs come quite close in that area? I am talking about picking opposites in the same category of clicky and tactile keys, not in the whole mechanical key spectrum.

I don't know actually, so I'll wait for someone who does.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Also, I would like to ask once again whether it is a good idea to preform a precaution diagnostic on my keyboard in the area of the nuts and bolts mod. I actually already opened this thing up before to check for defective hammers, and other possible switch difficulties, but somehow did not examine the actual bottom of the device whatsoever.

I say go for it just because it's your keyboard now.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 

By "isolated", do you mean allowing the key to come all the way back up before pressing it down again - such as the way I describe I double-tap?

Precisely good sir, I also meant it in the application of letting one key come up completely before pushing a different key down. I will indeed check for the broken rivets to be certain.


----------



## Genkaz92

It appears to be secure enough to me, only one rivet is missing:


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Precisely good sir, I also meant it in the application of letting one key come up completely before pushing a different key down. I will indeed check for the broken rivets to be certain.

Oh, then I would say that you might have no problems gaming on the Cherry MX Blues!


----------



## Ikrin

Best mechanical keyboard deal ever.









http://cgi.ebay.com/I-ROCKS-KR-6230-...item3a594ee0b3


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I spotted it first.


----------



## thisispatrick

Duckies cost ~$120 USD in Taiwan. QQ
Screw it, getting one anyways.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Duckies cost ~$120 USD in Taiwan. QQ
Screw it, getting one anyways.


You can get a Ducky?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


You can get a Ducky?


Why not?


----------



## ripster

Duckys migrate all the time.


----------



## Maytan

Genkaz, have you tried any games on your Model M? How do you like it for gaming?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Duckys migrate all the time.


So do fishies!


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Why not? 


Are you getting them imported from a reseller or are you traveling/in Taiwan?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


Are you getting them imported from a reseller or are you traveling/in Taiwan?


Mom's going back to Taiwan for a business trip, having her pick one up for me. Could get more to resell here but the profit per sale is kinda meh since I can only bring in ~10 of them.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Genkaz, have you tried any games on your Model M? How do you like it for gaming?


It is excellent for gaming, virtually as good as MX blacks in my opinion.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
It is excellent for gaming, virtually as good as MX blacks in my opinion.

I was asking more for the matrix than the keys themselves, but if they work fine for you I assume all is well.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I was asking more for the matrix than the keys themselves, but if they work fine for you I assume all is well.

The rollover is not the absolute best, but generally more then suitable for most purposes.


----------



## KipH

Patrick is looking at this one. We are looking for where to get them cheaper. There are a few nice boards on there if you don't mind stumbling around randomly like I did









I can still ship 'em to anyone if you want to order them from there and pay shipping + 3 Dr. Peppers. Yes, my price went up 2 pops.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
hehe every single time I tell somebody that I'll probably still be enjoying my Filco Majestouch 20 years from now, I usually end up sitting back and just going _"Wow. That's hard to imagine! I'll be 51 years old by that time!_" (although, I never actually _type_ that)

Blue Cherries, like most switches of their type, don't age well. I have two old Blue Cherry keyboards, one aged about 12 years, the other closer to 20. If you did a blind testing with one of them, and a relatively new Filco with blue Cherries, you'd be forgiven for thinking that they used different switch types. Then again, I'm comparing a PCB mounted Cherry with a Plate mounted one, but that explains sound differences, not feel.

Whilst I do like Blue Cherry keyboards, the switches have an absolutely hideous mechanism that carries a lot of problems with them.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
If someone were to pick two mechanical switch opposites, would MX blues and buckling springs come quite close in that area? I am talking about picking opposites in the same category of clicky and tactile keys, not in the whole mechanical key spectrum.

I think it's fair to say that clicky Alps and Cherry switches are designed to emulate buckling springs, and beam springs (the predecessor of the buckling spring) so to say that there are opposites in the category of clicky switches is somewhat meaningless. In fact, the moving actuation point in the Blue Cherry that TwoCables mentions is a side effect of emulating the pre-travel on IBM-made keyboards.

The issue with Cherry, Alps, and other similar switches is that they basically took linear switch designs, and threw things on top of them to make them tactile and linear. This results in a sort of un-natural, un-smooth feel off them, and an overcomplicated mechanism that is prone to failure from dust or hairs.

There's also issues with the specific ways they implemented the tactile and/or click action - Alps switches bottom out hard because of the design of the vertical leaf they use for tactility, Cherry blues have the moving actuation point from the moving clicker, the Cherry browns are 95% linear, and the list goes on. Half of the beauty of the buckling spring is that there are only two moving parts in the mechanism (not including the keycap) and they were designed to be what they were. There wasn't a matching set of linear and non-clicky buckling springs with different coloured springs.

Quote:

Also, I would like to ask once again whether it is a good idea to preform a precaution diagnostic on my keyboard in the area of the nuts and bolts mod. I actually already opened this thing up before to check for defective hammers, and other possible switch difficulties, but somehow did not examine the actual bottom of the device whatsoever.
From that backplate, there shouldn't be anything wrong. Popped rivets are only noteworthy when there is a lot of them popped in one area.


----------



## thisispatrick

Hehe







. Has anyone stumbled across Duckies with red switches?


----------



## lmnop

KBC did have a Ducky anniversary edition with Cherry MX Red switches to celebrate 1 year as a company. I imagine because of the Cherry MX Red shortage and nature of the model they didn't manufacture many.


----------



## ripster

Duckies with reds would be rare indeed. $120 for a Chinese Ducky?


----------



## lmnop

if I remember correctly it uses Cherry MX Red and Black (Spacebar, Enter, etc).


----------



## thisispatrick

Ripster, I think this is what you're talking about

















Christine... *drools* Most likely sold out/costs a fortune. Meh


----------



## lmnop

ripster will enjoy this this page.

http://www.socgame.com.tw/bbs/lofive...hp/t94771.html


----------



## KipH

Christine, whats the model # on that red board. Its hard for me to look with no clues.

Now Patric gone and made me hungry. Time for some Chinese food. We just call it food here


----------



## lmnop

I don't know the model number because I don't think it's available anymore. it was limited edition. taobao and inpad sold it.










message imsto at geekhack.


----------



## Genkaz92

Out of curiosity, how quiet are the "Enhanced Quiet Touch" buckling springs, and are they different in terms of their tactile nature/actuation point?


----------



## nonamed

Are there any Ducky keboards retailers in EU / USA ? or do they ship to EU ? I mean http://shop33611660.taobao.com/ ... Anyone know ? ^^


----------



## ch_123

Quote:

Out of curiosity, how quiet are the "Enhanced Quiet Touch" buckling springs, and are they different in terms of their tactile nature/actuation point?
Those are rubber dome keyboards.

IBM made Model Ms with greased springs, and I think Unicomp can do it on request for something like $40 (and of course, you can do it yourself with a $5 tube of silicon grease). There's a balance between silencing the keyboard, and reducing it's tactility. If you put a lot of grease on it, you can make it as quiet as a rubber dome keyboard, but you will render it practically linear. Less grease will dampen the click without altering the tactility too much, but you have to use very very small amounts to achieve that effect.

In addition, IBM's Wheelwriter typewriters (which also used buckling springs) put rubber washers on the bottom of the barrels so to cut down on the noise made by bottoming out. AT&T (who also made buckling spring keyboards) had a patent for putting foam inserts into the spring to quieten them. Some people have had success emulating this by stuffing the spring with dental floss. Supposedly this provides a better balance of tactility and silence than the grease does.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonamed* 
Are there any Ducky keboards retailers in EU / USA ? or do they ship to EU ? I mean http://shop33611660.taobao.com/ ... Anyone know ? ^^

I think there are no retailers. As for the shipping, I think you need to find a middle man.


----------



## Genkaz92

Ch, out of curiosity, have you performed any of the noise reducing mods to your model M, or do you actually like the distinct noticeable sound of the keys?


----------



## ch_123

I like the sound, but I once experimented with the grease mod and I found that it just killed the tactility too much for my liking. If I want a quite keyboard, I use my Topre.


----------



## Genkaz92

Speaking of Topre, could you please describe it in some detail? Many individuals appear to be absolutely in love with Topre switches.

I quite like the sound as well by the way.


----------



## Maytan

lmnop will mock me 'till the day I die about this, but it's just flippin' impossible to get any information about Unicomp's keyboard covers. I even tried emailing their support, no luck.

Call me obsessive, but I don't have money to waste. ;/


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


lmnop will mock me 'till the day I die about this, but it's just flippin' impossible to get any information about Unicomp's keyboard covers. I even tried emailing their support, no luck.

Call me obsessive, but I don't have money to waste. ;/


Those covers are great, but they're designed to stay on the keyboard. They're intended for environments where the keyboard needs to be protected from the environment they're in.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Those covers are great, but they're designed to stay on the keyboard. They're intended for environments where the keyboard needs to be protected from the environment they're in.



I was more or less interested in it purely for keeping dust out when I'm not using it/only need to use it for a minute.

What I question is the material. If it were like you suggested many pages back, I'd surely pick one up.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I was more or less interested in it purely for keeping dust out when I'm not using it/only need to use it for a minute.

What I question is the material. If it were like you suggested many pages back, I'd surely pick one up.

I know why you want it, but my concern is that it may wear out from not keeping it on the keyboard 24/7. It's a soft material, kinda like silicon, but not like super-soft. It's enough to protect the keyboard from spills and stuff while staying strong enough and flexible enough to be able to type on it every single day. But removing it every day or whenever might cause it to wear out and perhaps crack or tear because it isn't made for that.

Why not just keep the keyboard clean by vacuuming it every day? I'm serious. I vacuum mine more than once per day: every single time I see any debris on it.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I know why you want it, but my concern is that it may wear out from not keeping it on the keyboard 24/7. It's a soft material, kinda like silicon, but not like super-soft. It's enough to protect the keyboard from spills and stuff while staying strong enough and flexible enough to be able to type on it every single day. But removing it every day or whenever might cause it to wear out and perhaps crack or tear because it isn't made for that.


You raise a good point. It probably isn't worth it for my uses.

Quote:



Why not just keep the keyboard clean by vacuuming it every day? I'm serious. I vacuum mine more than once per day: every single time I see any debris on it.


Taking a vacuum to a computer part always scared me.







That said, I have micro-fiber cloths used purely for wiping down my current keyboard; I could use those.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


You raise a good point. It probably isn't worth it for my uses.

Taking a vacuum to a computer part always scared me.







That said, I have micro-fiber cloths used purely for wiping down my current keyboard; I could use those.


Well, it's one thing to take a vacuum directly to the business side of a PCB, but it's another to do it to a keyboard. I've been doing it to my Majestouch multiple times per day for the past 6Â½ months without any negative effects. I use a horse hair brush attachment which probably creates a bunch of static electricity which might be too much for direct contact with components on a PCB, but not for a keyboard.

However, I do it because I like my keyboard. Although, if I wanted to have a cover for my keyboard, then I'd probably just get one of those generic dust covers from like Best Buy or something. But then I'd have to be careful about removing it because I wouldn't want to allow any of the dust and/or debris that is on top of it to fall onto my keyboard.


----------



## ch_123

Vacuuming IBM keyboards with double-part caps will inevitably end with tears.


----------



## Genkaz92

Ch, would you kindly answer my question about the Topre switches?


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


lmnop will mock me 'till the day I die about this, but it's just flippin' impossible to get any information about Unicomp's keyboard covers. I even tried emailing their support, no luck.

Call me obsessive, but I don't have money to waste. ;/


Sorry Maytan but my two posts answering your question got deleted - a casualty of the PS/2 versus USB debate I guess.

Explicitly here's the scoop.

Quote:



I also ordered the protective keyboard cover. I used to use a keyboard cover back in the 80's which was made of hard plastic and very very easy to place and remove. You just placed it on top, and it's done in less than 1 second. The one I got from unicomp was made of flexible plastic, and it takes a while to put it on, from 10 seconds to 60 seconds depending on how well you want it placed. This is annoying, cause I was hoping to put the cover on everytime I go to bed. Since it takes too long to put the cover, I don't find myself using it much. However, with this flexible keyboard cover it's actually possible to type on the keyboard while the cover is still on, and it still feels better than a lot of rubber dome keyboards. So if you want to use your keyboard in the rain, their keyboard cover should do the job.


The other two posts got deleted is because I compared the cover to a certain prophylactic device. In the second I suggested that Maytan do a google search for "Unicomp Keyboard Cover" and click on the third hit to get to the Unicomp keyboard review that includes this trivia. For this offense I apologize to the gentle readers here and the mods.


----------



## ripster

BTW for the ultimate noodles slurp proof keyboard cover nothing beats this.

Focus 2001 with built in cover


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Explicitly here's the scoop.


Thank you! For some reason, even when I google'd, I was apparently too stupid to find that review. I guess I'm going blind; I already have practical blindness in my left eye anyway.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


BTW for the ultimate noodles slurp proof keyboard cover nothing beats this.

Focus 2001 with built in cover
*snip*


Oh snap, that's some crazy sheet right there.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Oh snap, that's some crazy sheet right there.


Ahoy there, is that an attempt to circumvent the swear filter I see?!


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Ahoy there, is that an attempt to circumvent the swear filter I see?!


Thanks for the bursting laughter, I almost died after I read your post.

I wasn't even thinking about it like that; honest, officer!


----------



## ripster

You're welcome.

And Filcos come with a free one that actually sounds better than the Unicomp one. I hate those floppy ones.

It fits the RealForce 87U and is a lot cheaper than the ones at Elitekeyboards too.









My dog contemplating how to subvert this hair repellent


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genkaz92*


Ch, would you kindly answer my question about the Topre switches?


A concise description of the Topre would be that they are like a rubber dome switch, except without the stiffness, mushiness, and friction. They also bottom out very smoothly, and actuate near the top of the keypress. In other words, they are like rubber domes, except without all the things that make rubber domes bad.


----------



## loop0001

i figure this is the best place to put in my two cents..
read up on everything waaaay at the start of this thread, and im interested..
really took away two things, keyboards feel good when used and they will last..

main point now...

in 3 years i have used 2 saitek eclipses till they died, 1 razer lycosa for a couple months..bleh.. and just now a sidewinder x6 that lasted 2 months before the main keys decided they didnt want to respond...

i want something that will last.
hopefully with fairly quiet keys...but if not..oh well i have headphones

does anyone have some good recommendations for me?
mid range price (i know they are more expensive in general)
backlit if possible
and with a numpad and regular sized backspace key...cant stand the little one..always miss..

lemme know why you recommend aswell... in the mean time im shoppin around..

thks


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


A concise description of the Topre would be that they are like a rubber dome switch, except without the stiffness, mushiness, and friction. They also bottom out very smoothly, and actuate near the top of the keypress. In other words, they are like rubber domes, except without all the things that make rubber domes bad.


That is indeed quite interesting, I would also assume that they excellent for gaming.


----------



## candy_van

Well my Deck came today









Firstly, the quality on this thing is out-freakin' standing.
Not really necessary to say, but yea...huge difference from my previous (cheap) keyboards









Now as far as the switches go; I'm finding MX Clears to be a bit stiffer than I expected, but that's not to say it's just because I'm coming from mush.

Since I was still curious about the browns...I ordered the Das Silent Pro too







(should be here ~Tues).
Now I could actually use 2x keyboards anyway (work / home) so I guess that's how I justified it lol.

Regardless if I decide I really like one more than the other, I'm sure I'll figure something out


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:



Originally Posted by *candy_van*


Well my Deck came today









Firstly, the quality on this thing is out-freakin' standing.
Not really necessary to say, but yea...huge difference from my previous (cheap) keyboards









Now as far as the switches go; I'm finding MX Clears to be a bit stiffer than I expected, but that's not to say it's just because I'm coming from mush.

Since I was still curious about the browns...I ordered the Das Silent Pro too







(should be here ~Tues).
Now I could actually use 2x keyboards anyway (work / home) so I guess that's how I justified it lol.

Regardless if I decide I really like one more than the other, I'm sure I'll figure something out










I am jealous in a good way, my experience with Deck 82 was extremely positive, except for the fact that I found it unpleasant and uncomfortable to type on due to the MX blacks that it unfortunately uses, and eventually had to return it as a result. Quality wise though, virtually nothing tops it.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Genkaz92*


Quality wise though, virtually nothing tops it.


How do you feel it compared quality wise with your Model M?


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
How do you feel it compared quality wise with your Model M?

model M appears to be a few hairs below in quality, it is difficult to compare due to the Deck and the model M having dramatically different styles. I meant it in a way that IF the Deck put together something extremely similar to model M in durability, size, and technology, then it would probably be of a slightly higher quality then the original model M. I may be incorrect due to me only observing an extremely new Deck and a relatively old model M (even though they age virtually flawlessly well) but in my opinion the quality of the Deck generally seemed more polished and just a few hairs generally higher, also considering all the spiffy stuff that Deck manages to shove into their boards and still make them extremely durable.

If I were to stop being picky though, model M appears to stay virtually on the same step quality wise compared to the Deck, maybe a few hairs below.


----------



## ch_123

Well, the one you have is one of the later cost cut models. On the flipside, the quality difference between older and newer Model M designs isn't as big as some would believe, and the Model M definitely has some weak points - the plastic rivets, and the use of a membrane for the switches (although it's awful lot easier to fix a dead membrane than it is to fix a dead PCB)

The older IBM keyboards, the Model F and the beam spring switch keyboards, are of a level of build quality that is so over-engineered that they are practically comical.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Well, the one you have is one of the later cost cut models. On the flipside, the quality difference between older and newer Model M designs isn't as big as some would believe, and the Model M definitely has some weak points - the plastic rivets, and the use of a membrane for the switches (although it's awful lot easier to fix a dead membrane than it is to fix a dead PCB)

The older IBM keyboards, the Model F and the beam spring switch keyboards, are of a level of build quality that is so over-engineered that they are practically comical.

If this supposedly cost cut model M is only a few hairs below the quality of a Deck, then a model F must surely be above it, or even an earlier non cut model M.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
That is indeed quite interesting, I would also assume that they excellent for gaming.

Yes the Topre works quite well for gaming. It's the best keyboard I've found for gaming yet, as well as being an excellent typer. It does take some getting used to, but once you do the experience is quite positive in pretty much all aspects.

I opted for the all weighted 50g version, and I suspect that a normal realforce may be slightly odd since the keys have different weights with typing in mind. The idea was that the keys that are hit with the weaker fingers, like the pinky, would have lighter keys to compensate. I imagine that may be a little strange in a gaming situation where the finger layout is different. Honestly I have not tried the normal board though, so it could be fine.

My wish is to eventually get a 30g weighted realforce, but I guess I'll have to wait for a refurb on ebay to even think about affording it.


----------



## ch_123

The 30g-only versions are only available in Japanese keyboards. With US layout Realforces, you have the choice between variable-weight and all-55g. The HHKB is all-45g.


----------



## Maytan

How many different versions of the Realforce are there?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
How many different versions of the Realforce are there?

To my knowledge there is 4 versions:

55G
45G
30G
and Ergonomic (various weight depending on the finger hitting the key.)


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loop0001* 
i figure this is the best place to put in my two cents..
read up on everything waaaay at the start of this thread, and im interested..
really took away two things, keyboards feel good when used and they will last..

main point now...

in 3 years i have used 2 saitek eclipses till they died, 1 razer lycosa for a couple months..bleh.. and just now a sidewinder x6 that lasted 2 months before the main keys decided they didnt want to respond...

i want something that will last.
hopefully with fairly quiet keys...but if not..oh well i have headphones

does anyone have some good recommendations for me?
mid range price (i know they are more expensive in general)
backlit if possible
and with a numpad and regular sized backspace key...cant stand the little one..always miss..

lemme know why you recommend aswell... in the mean time im shoppin around..

thks

Get a Microsoft Sidewinder X4 if you want NKRO over USB at "midrange" prices.


----------



## KipH

@ loop0001: What do you use it for? Mostly typing or mostly gaming? And what do you do to kill them keyboards?

You could look at the new Thermaltake boards or wait till the Razer comes out. If you are dead set on back lighting for a mechanical board then "mid" price range will have to go


----------



## loop0001

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
@ loop0001: What do you use it for? Mostly typing or mostly gaming? And what do you do to kill them keyboards?

You could look at the new Thermaltake boards or wait till the Razer comes out. If you are dead set on back lighting for a mechanical board then "mid" price range will have to go









gaming mostly, tho alot of typing as well.
if i have to throw out backlighting then no problem there...guess i like it cause of seeing the keys but i should know them by heart by now (if not muscle memory)

i have no idea why my keyboards die...i clean them often, and i dont think i press to hard when typing so i cant be that bad...









thermaltake board. ill search for it. have any thoughts for some that arent back lit?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Get a Microsoft Sidewinder X4 if you want NKRO over USB.

that isnt a mechanical keyboard is it?
the ones with that rubber layer are the ones that wear out..
im not sure what my issue was but a connection somehow broke down..

what do you mean by "NKRO over USB" how does rollover key link with the type of plug in?


----------



## KipH

NKRO is only available with PS/2 connector. USB (or the OS) limit is 6 keys +4 modifiers. Many will point out that it is very hard to hit 6 keys at the same time, especially with one hand on the mouse, but we like to use it if we have it.

The x4 is rubber but it has a cheat (or as they say, clever programing) that lets them do more key presses at a time than USB normally allows.

For you I would suggest a Brown switch or scissors switch board. Look at irocks KB-6230 and see if its ok for you. I know its a small del key, but I like it. Don't make mistaks and you don't need to derlet. LOL


----------



## thisispatrick

The irocks KB-6230 comes out to be ~90.
At that prices I would just go with a Das or a Filco.


----------



## loop0001

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
NKRO is only available with PS/2 connector. USB (or the OS) limit is 6 keys +4 modifiers. Many will point out that it is very hard to hit 6 keys at the same time, especially with one hand on the mouse, but we like to use it if we have it.

The x4 is rubber but it has a cheat (or as they say, clever programing) that lets them do more key presses at a time than USB normally allows.

For you I would suggest a Brown switch or scissors switch board. Look at irocks KB-6230 and see if its ok for you. I know its a small del key, but I like it. Don't make mistaks and you don't need to derlet. LOL

they keyboard looks good, but not so sure about the config for the keys and missing a few aswell.. i could do it, but def want to see a couple more..


----------



## KipH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
The irocks KB-6230 comes out to be ~90.
At that prices I would just go with a Das or a Filco.

90$! I did get a good deal here then. I got it for just under $60.

Ebay for a model m


----------



## ripster

Quote:

The x4 is rubber but it has a cheat (or as they say, clever programing) that lets them do more key presses at a time than USB normally allows.
Microsoft R&D would disagree with the "cheat" statement - they got quite a few patents on that one and have and they will license to others. It IS a true 12KRO and the only limit is that pesky Windows OS and the inability of most apps to recognize more than 12 keypresses without freaking out. This makes the N in NKRO kind of a theoretical construct more than a practical consideration.

Technically none of the Logitech Gaming keyboards like the G11, G15, G19 are even 6KRO for example. Neither is the upcoming Razer BlackWidow a true 6KRO although the $80 price would be considered "midrange".

NKRO is kinda complicated in other words.


----------



## Genkaz92

Would anyone kindly give me a few examples of relatively compact Topre switch keyboards?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Would anyone kindly give me a few examples of relatively compact Topre switch keyboards?

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...&pid=rf_se0500

&

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...oards,hhkbpro2


----------



## Maytan

I wish the HHKB was more around the $200 range. >$250 on a keyboard is just more than I can afford.


----------



## Genkaz92

HHKs look very interesting, how durable are they?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
HHKs look very interesting, how durable are they?

they don't have a steel plate like Topre. should last you 10 years at least.


----------



## Genkaz92

I am not necessarily planning on buying one due to my current wonderful model M which I bought for approximately 8 times cheaper, which will also last me atleast three times as much as an HHK probably would. On other hand there is a chance of me liking Topre switches even more then buckling springs, but frankly my level of satisfaction with them is more then enough.


----------



## Genkaz92

What would be the best description of MX clear switches?


----------



## lmnop

I don't think the Topre variable model and HHKB layout are practical for gaming. Topre and HHKB are typing keyboards, so elegant it seems wrong to "slam and spam" on them for gaming.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
What would be the best description of MX clear switches?


Quote:

The tactile switches have a slightly elevated force around the midpoint of the stroke of the key. So, when you have pressed the key down about halfway, the force increases slightly for a brief moment, and then goes back to normal. This gives your fingers an indication that the key has been pressed so you can stop pressing the key and let up to move on to another key faster. Think of it as a "click" feel without the "click" sound.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I don't think the Topre variable model and HHKB layout are practical for gaming. Topre and HHKB are typing keyboards, so elegant it seems wrong to "slam and spam" on them for gaming.

Do they purely rely on the force increase while staying completely silent?


----------



## lmnop

are you talking about Cherry MX Clear or Capacitive? I don't understand the question.


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
are you talking about Cherry MX Clear or Capacitive? I don't understand the question.

My apologies, the Cherries.


----------



## lmnop

I think so. I should be apologizing. I just spent 11 hours in Visual Studio. my brain is exhausted and my ass is numb


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
Do they purely rely on the force increase while staying completely silent?

I own a a Deck Frost which has MX-Clears and yes more or less that is the reaction I get out of them. While I'm gaming I heard my self bottom out but after spending a week with them I'm more or less adjust to the force required and I don't have a problem with bottoming out anymore.

I had somewhat of an issue at first because they were lighter than my Dell AT101W which I was using in the transition time.

The switches are by far my favorite out of all the cherry switches, white or black Alps, & buckling springs.


----------



## loop0001

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I own a a Deck Frost which has MX-Clears and yes more or less that is the reaction I get out of them. While I'm gaming I heard my self bottom out but after spending a week with them I'm more or less adjust to the force required and I don't have a problem with bottoming out anymore.

I had somewhat of an issue at first because they were lighter than my Dell AT101W which I was using in the transition time.

small question..you mention bottoming out on the keyboard, is it bad for that to happen with the keyboard?


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I think so. I should be apologizing. I just spent 11 hours in Visual Studio. my brain is exhausted and my ass is numb









programmer! no wonder you like keyboards









my filco brown tenkeyless now lives at the office. thinking of getting another for home usage... i REALLY wish i could get a red in tenkeyless. i think i might get a black just to try it, since i will be gaming at home. errr, maybe i will get a blue.... damnit too many options.

anyway, any new cool keyboards coming out to consider?


----------



## lmnop

buy both


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loop0001* 
small question..you mention bottoming out on the keyboard, is it bad for that to happen with the keyboard?

Bad for your fingers technically, but not bad for the keyboard.


----------



## loop0001

thks


----------



## LarsMarkelson

hehe







i might. actually i've gotten my coworker to buy a cherry blue, so i'll try his when it comes









problem is he can't decide between filco and das lolol. i told him about deck too but he said too expensive.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
hehe







i might. actually i've gotten my coworker to buy a cherry blue, so i'll try his when it comes









problem is he can't decide between filco and das lolol. i told him about deck too but he said too expensive.

if you are located anywhere near new york city there is a store where you can check it out like i did


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
if you are located anywhere near new york city there is a store where you can check it out like i did

dang, gotta love nyc. nope i'm in seattle!


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godofdeath* 
if you are located anywhere near new york city there is a store where you can check it out like i did

There is? Woh where? I want to go. Do they carry anything else?


----------



## LarsMarkelson

okay this is old news probably, but did you guys notice the rosewill mechanical is finally in stock at newegg?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823201040


----------



## loop0001

aaw...seattle...








i miss washington...

anywho.. looking as this board..Majestouch Tactile Touch NKRO
good choice for a first mechanical?


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loop0001* 
aaw...seattle...








i miss washington...

anywho.. looking as this board..Majestouch Tactile Touch NKRO
good choice for a first mechanical?

Yep, great choice. I have the tenkeyless version and I love it. Question is, do you want blue, black, or brown??


----------



## loop0001

@ LarsMarkelson

good good, do you mean color of the keyboard or color of the switches?


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loop0001* 
@ LarsMarkelson

good good, do you mean color of the keyboard or color of the switches?

color/type of the switches. it's a big choice. as you probably already know, but i'll just rehash quickly,

blue = typing
black = gaming
brown = gaming/typing

obv a very simplified guide, that cannot begin to describe the nuances of each switch


----------



## thisispatrick

Yeah Filco's and Das' are a good 1st mech keyboard.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
okay this is old news probably, but did you guys notice the rosewill mechanical is finally in stock at newegg?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823201040

Hm, looks like it could be news actually. Here's the geekhack thread, http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=11785

Someone just ordered one yesterday. Will be interesting to see how it is. Cherry Blue for $80 (the sale price a long time ago when it didn't work) would be very nice.


----------



## loop0001

probably brown then. mainly cause i dont want to admit how much gaming i do


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loop0001* 
probably brown then. mainly cause i dont want to admit how much gaming i do









Also a good choice!


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Cool. I think you'll be very happy. Gaming is important hahahaha


----------



## loop0001

righto then, ill add it to the list. thanks guys!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
Cool. I think you'll be very happy. Gaming is important hahahaha

lol hopefully ill move more away from it soon... turn more to modding and building cases


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Bad for your fingers technically, but not bad for the keyboard.

Depends on the keyboard you're talking about.


----------



## lmnop

there is nothing wrong with bottoming out lol


----------



## loop0001

hey!! i know that stuff!! our family calls it Pancakan.. gosh it has alot of names tho. swedish pancakes, oven pancakes..
def looks the same as ours. enjoy!!


----------



## loop0001

In !!


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

I'm waiting for my RK-9000 to arrive.










It looks like a CST-104 so it could be a Filco Tactile Click NKRO under the Rosewill brand. Then again, it might not. I'll know for sure in a few days.

I'm just hoping that Rosewill's claims of NKRO aren't like ABS' claims of it on the M1 (which they later revoked). Both are Newegg house brands and it wouldn't surprise me terribly if they were run by the same management.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Depends on the keyboard you're talking about.

What board would have a negative effect from bottoming out?

I've never seen this outlined before.


----------



## ch_123

Black Alps bottom out hard, and are bloody uncomfortable to type on as a consequence. That said, you can't but bottom out on them, so that's just a failing of the switch really.


----------



## fssbzz

Hi guys, i want to do a research paper about mechanical Keyboard for my college writing class.
Is there any good site for me to find the source?
i wonder if i can get my source from the geekhack wiki..will it be legit?


----------



## ch_123

What exactly about them are you writing about?


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


What exactly about them are you writing about?


i put my topic: mechanical keyboard vs membrane keyboard, i cant go in too detail because most of the people in my class don't even know what is mechanical keyboard.
i have to do the research for it and give a speech about it.


----------



## ch_123

Many mechanical keyboards are membrane keyboards.

You want to start researching now


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Many mechanical keyboards are membrane keyboards.

You want to start researching now










No!
hehe..
my teacher said that we cant use the source from Wiki.
But..i wonder if the Geekhack Wiki can be use?


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
No!
hehe..
my teacher said that we cant use the source from Wiki.
But..i wonder if the Geekhack Wiki can be use?

Well... It's not wikiPEDIA which is propably what the teacher meant, but you could always just ask him/her.... E'mail could do..

Wikipedia = A huge encyclopedia filled with vandalism, false information, and biased articles.

????Wiki = A small wikipedia aimed towards creating a knowledge base about a single topic. MUCH less vandalism and false information. Biased articles still happen, and in this case they tend to be extremely biased.....


----------



## ch_123

@fssbzz - how do you define 'mechanical' keyboard in the context of your essay?


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
@fssbzz - how do you define 'mechanical' keyboard in the context of your essay?

Mechanical keyboards are constructed with higher quality materials, they last longer and are more reliable compare to membrane keyboards


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
Hi guys, i want to do a research paper about mechanical Keyboard for my college writing class.
Is there any good site for me to find the source?
i wonder if i can get my source from the geekhack wiki..will it be legit?

You steal my pics and my legal team will be all over your ass.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


You steal my pics and my legal team will be all over your ass.










don worry, you are all over my bibliography.. all my main sources is from GeekHack.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


Mechanical keyboards are constructed with higher quality materials, they last longer and are more reliable compare to membrane keyboards


Not "why are they better", "what are they".

Also, don't use "membrane" keyboard. Rubber dome and scissor switch are your targets of ridicule, especially rubber dome.

The Model M and Cherry MY keyboards are examples of mechanical keyboards that use membranes.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Not "why are they better", "what are they".

Also, don't use "membrane" keyboard. Rubber dome and scissor switch are your targets of ridicule, especially rubber dome.

The Model M and Cherry MY keyboards are examples of mechanical keyboards that use membranes.


ah.. Noted.
Thanks man.

Mechanical keyboards are keyboard that uses an individual switch for each key. They have a springiness and feel that is not the same as the standard membrane keyboard accompanying most computers. def from the dictionary.

I'm sorry that my english is very bad..


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


ah.. Noted.
Thanks man.

Mechanical keyboards are keyboard that uses an individual switch for each key. They have a springiness and feel that is not the same as the standard membrane keyboard accompanying most computers. def from the dictionary.

I'm sorry that my english is very bad..










Scissor switches have an individual switch for each key coupled with a rubber dome sheet.

Many older rubber dome keyboards have discreet switches containing rubber domes.

I think a better definition would be a keyboard with switches which utilize as a main component a metal spring, either coiled or leaf, for resetting the switch, increasing force, or adding tactility.

This excludes rubber domes (both discreet and sheet) and scissor switches, while including all switches commonly described as mechanical, including buckling springs, Cherry MX and MY, and Topre (even though Topre uses rubber domes for tactility). It does add a few switches not normally considered mechanical, such as some foam element switches, but these are ancient and no longer used, so you don't need to go over them.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Scissor switches have an individual switch for each key coupled with a rubber dome sheet.

Many older rubber dome keyboards have discreet switches containing rubber domes.

I think a better definition would be a keyboard with switches which utilize as a main component a metal spring, either coiled or leaf, for resetting the switch, increasing force, or adding tactility.

This excludes rubber domes (both discreet and sheet) and scissor switches, while including all switches commonly described as mechanical, including buckling springs, Cherry MX and MY, and Topre (even though Topre uses rubber domes for tactility). It does add a few switches not normally considered mechanical, such as some foam element switches, but these are ancient and no longer used, so you don't need to go over them.

nice!!
thanks!!
so..i will just put Phaedrus2129 & overclock.net, cite it as my source ok?
i wonder if that will work.
anyway
Steelseries post this in their facebook, how they laser their new keyboard Steelseries Shift keycaps. is so cool~!
but is a rubber dome keyboard, which have Improved rubber domes for extended lifecycle up to 15million keystroke made with high quality silicon. lol
http://steelseries.com/products/keyb...elseries-shift

here's the video:
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=436623070747


----------



## Crazy9000

What level of school are you in Fssb? Posts on an internet forum probably won't be good enough sources for late highschool or any college class. Middle School (aka junior high) it's probably fine though.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


What level of school are you in Fssb? Posts on an internet forum probably won't be good enough sources for late highschool or any college class. Middle School (aka junior high) it's probably fine though.


im in college.
is geekhack wiki consider a good sources?
im not doing a research paper, but a speech outline which require research, and sources.
so i cant go too far or too detail which ALL my classmate don't even know what mechanical keyboard is. trying to stay simple and make it understand.


----------



## ripster

I find the USB Versus PS/2 wiki  especially good myself.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Scissor switches have an individual switch for each key coupled with a rubber dome sheet.

Many older rubber dome keyboards have discreet switches containing rubber domes.

I think a better definition would be a keyboard with switches which utilize as a main component a metal spring, either coiled or leaf, for resetting the switch, increasing force, or adding tactility.

This excludes rubber domes (both discreet and sheet) and scissor switches, while including all switches commonly described as mechanical, including buckling springs, Cherry MX and MY, and Topre (even though Topre uses rubber domes for tactility). It does add a few switches not normally considered mechanical, such as some foam element switches, but these are ancient and no longer used, so you don't need to go over them.


But think about it, then the essay is about a meaningless abstraction. As you say yourself - the presence of a metallic spring in a keyswitch doesn't automatically make it better to type on, or even longer lasting. There are plenty of examples of 'non-mechanicals' that are better than so-called 'mechanical' keyboards.

The problem is that the rather meaningless abstraction that is 'mechanical keyboard' refers to so many disparate types of keyswitch mechanism of varying quality that often have nothing to do with eachother except for the presence of some sort of metal spring, that the topic becomes immensely broad. Off the top of my head, I can only think of about four non-mechanical switches (rubber dome, scissor, pure membrane, rubber sleeve), yet I can think of dozens of types of mechanical switch.

Perhaps you'd be better off writing about how rubber domes are bad rather than how mechanical keyboards are good.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


I find the USB Versus PS/2 wiki  especially good myself.


wait.
i mean geekhack is best sources i can find in the entire web.
but i wonder if my teacher will allow using sources from the geekhack wiki.


----------



## ripster

If you don't show her the Lego porn I think she'd be OK. After all it is the most comprehensive factual listing of keyboard info on the internet.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


If you don't show her the Lego porn I think she'd be OK. After all it is the most comprehensive factual listing of keyboard info on the internet.


haha ya.i will just use geekhack then i cited all into my bibliography.

and this is the only source i found using my school library database.


----------



## Maytan

Well, I really wanted a Unicomp; but in the end I decided I'm going to try getting a Deck. Of course, I am a bit disappointed; but a few problems arise when the Unicomp comes into question.

First one is noise. I love the sound, but I'm up as late as 3-4AM typing around sleeping people. I was going to buy it anyway, and tell said people to deal with it; but it's come to my attention that this really wouldn't get me anywhere.

Second one is the key-rollover. While I went so far as to defend its 2KRO capabilities, I don't think it will work for me. Upon close inspection, I'm hitting 3-4 simultaneous keys quite often. 2KRO would probably be workable, but I don't want to risk it. I love great feeling keyboards, but gaming is still my first love.

So, why the Deck? Well, I'm not a huge fan of backlighting. It's not that I dislike it, I'm just sort of neutral on the matter. I'd say the real reason is the higher build quality. From what I've seen, read, and heard; the Deck has not only thicker keycaps, but double shots as well. Yeah, I have noticed that the Das' keycaps feel a bit thin/light. At first I thought it was just because the Browns are a light switch, but I've removed many keycaps since then; I'd prefer something heavier feeling. (which hopefully the Clears + Thicker caps will do for me.)

I'm not sure I'm going to make the switch yet. I'm still on a crossroads as to what I should do. First up on my list is a new DAC, however.


----------



## T3h_Ch33z_Muncha

i used the [H] and OCN mechanical keyboard guides for my IPT expert systems assignment. I think it would actually be fairly useful but i don't know how to export it to a different expert systems platform :/

also, anyone know anything about Unisys keyboards? A quick google showed a geekhack thread saying a particular model i might be buying isn't mechanical. Going to get the seller to post pics of the switches..


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Btw, I ordered the Blue Tenkeyless Filco









I got it because I saw it was ripster's favorite keyboard, and he has a ton of keyboards









For reference, I have the Brown Tenkeyless Filco but it's at work. Blue will be for home usage.


----------



## ripster

Excellent Choice!!

Feel Da Bump!


----------



## LarsMarkelson

lolololol that is amazing. i can already feel the joy the blue cherries will give me!


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Well, I really wanted a Unicomp; but in the end I decided I'm going to try getting a Deck. Of course, I am a bit disappointed; but a few problems arise when the Unicomp comes into question.

First one is noise. I love the sound, but I'm up as late as 3-4AM typing around sleeping people. I was going to buy it anyway, and tell said people to deal with it; but it's come to my attention that this really wouldn't get me anywhere.

Second one is the key-rollover. While I went so far as to defend its 2KRO capabilities, I don't think it will work for me. Upon close inspection, I'm hitting 3-4 simultaneous keys quite often. 2KRO would probably be workable, but I don't want to risk it. I love great feeling keyboards, but gaming is still my first love.

So, why the Deck? Well, I'm not a huge fan of backlighting. It's not that I dislike it, I'm just sort of neutral on the matter. I'd say the real reason is the higher build quality. From what I've seen, read, and heard; the Deck has not only thicker keycaps, but double shots as well. Yeah, I have noticed that the Das' keycaps feel a bit thin/light. At first I thought it was just because the Browns are a light switch, but I've removed many keycaps since then; I'd prefer something heavier feeling. (which hopefully the Clears + Thicker caps will do for me.)

I'm not sure I'm going to make the switch yet. I'm still on a crossroads as to what I should do. First up on my list is a new DAC, however.

Recall that 2KRO means 2 _minimum_ not maximum. I can mash down loads of keys on a Model M style keyboard when playing a game, it's just that some combinations won't.

Is your current keyboard NKRO?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing* 
I'm waiting for my RK-9000 to arrive.

http://imgur.com/K05UF.png

It looks like a CST-104 so it could be a Filco Tactile Click NKRO under the Rosewill brand. Then again, it might not. I'll know for sure in a few days.

I'm just hoping that Rosewill's claims of NKRO aren't like ABS' claims of it on the M1 (which they later revoked). Both are Newegg house brands and it wouldn't surprise me terribly if they were run by the same management.

I am really looking forward to finding out what you think about this Rosewill keyboard! Ever since I first heard about it, I have been wanting to find out if it is worth recommending.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
No!
hehe..
my teacher said that we cant use the source from Wiki.
But..i wonder if the Geekhack Wiki can be use?

When anyone in this world (such as a college professor) mentions "Wiki", they mean Wikipedia. The reason why they say "Wiki" instead of "Wikipedia" is because they don't know that there are other Wikis out there (such as GeekHack's). They think that "Wiki" always means "Wikipedia".

Fortunately, GeekHack's Wiki articles aren't like Wikipedia's articles. I mean, the reason why it isn't a good idea to use Wikipedia is because it isn't a trusted source even though the majority of the content is just fine. This is because it's quite possible that the day you choose to look at a Wikipedia article is the same day some unscrupulous person decided to screw that article up without it being all that obvious to casual observers, or perhaps the article is simply inaccurate and hasn't been noticed by the Wikipedia Community yet. So, it's best to either use GeekHack's wiki articles, or better yet: books. I mean, even GeekHack's Wikipedia articles can be tainted by an unscrupulous person, or simply be inaccurate.

However, due to GeekHack itself being nowhere near as popular as Wikipedia, I'm just going to say that GeekHack is a trusted source. After all, it's not "Wikipedia", and therefore it doesn't have any negative connotations with it. I mean, it's likely that your college professor/teacher has never heard of GeekHack before, so that will probably be to your advantage.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Scissor switches have an individual switch for each key coupled with a rubber dome sheet.

Many older rubber dome keyboards have discreet switches containing rubber domes.

I think a better definition would be a keyboard with switches which utilize as a main component a metal spring, either coiled or leaf, for resetting the switch, increasing force, or adding tactility.

This excludes rubber domes (both discreet and sheet) and scissor switches, while including all switches commonly described as mechanical, including buckling springs, Cherry MX and MY, and Topre (even though Topre uses rubber domes for tactility). It does add a few switches not normally considered mechanical, such as some foam element switches, but these are ancient and no longer used, so you don't need to go over them.

Please forgive me, but it's not "discreet", but rather "discrete".

fssbz: the reason why I made this correction is because there is a major difference between these two words. Here are their definitions:

Discreet
Discrete
Phaedrus2129: again, I apologize. But I only did this because I know that fssbz isn't confident in his English.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
haha ya.i will just use geekhack then i cited all into my bibliography.

and this is the only source i found using my school library database.
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6172/lollnw.png

It could also be a good idea to use some (or all) of the 8 references that are listed at the bottom of this.

I guess some other possible references to use might be things like the first 2 questions on this page:

http://elitekeyboards.com/support.php

There may be other possibilities, such as maybe some documentations created by the Cherry Corporation regarding their keyswitches. But I don't know where to begin or look. However, that could end up complicating things too much thereby making it hard for others to remain interested (I love your determination to keep it as simple as possible to maximize the possibility that they will understand).

This is an excellent subject for a research paper, but unfortunately it's not a popular one which makes finding really good sources a somewhat difficult task. So I believe that as long as it is clear that your references and sources are 100% trustworthy, then there may be nothing wrong. However, I have no experience with writing a research paper, but I really do want to help in any way that I can (I actually find it difficult to not help when I see ways I can help).

When is this due?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Recall that 2KRO means 2 _minimum_ not maximum. I can mash down loads of keys on a Model M style keyboard when playing a game, it's just that some combinations won't.

This.

The IBM Matrix has been found to actually be just fine for gaming.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Is your current keyboard NKRO?

He has a Das Model S Silent.


----------



## bluexselvedge

quality-wise... which brand is better?

Xarmor
Deck
DAS
Filco


----------



## Crazy9000

Build quality being the only factor, Deck.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluexselvedge* 
quality-wise... which brand is better?

Xarmor
Deck
DAS
Filco

Concerning only the quality, I would order them this way:

Deck
Das
Filco
XArmor
However, based on what I've seen in this thread, the Deck is almost in a class by itself when it comes to the build quality.


----------



## bluexselvedge

interesting. thanks for the info guys. kinda helped narrowed down my choice on what to get (been reading for hours!)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluexselvedge* 
interesting. thanks for the info guys. kinda helped narrowed down my choice on what to get (been reading for hours!)

It's a bit like comparing a bunch of high-quality, highly-recommended power supplies: there comes a point where you just have to pick the one you like the most because they are all great.

I mean, just because Decks are the best in terms of build quality, they are still significantly more expensive than any Das Model S or Filco Majestouch.

However, there is one thing about the Deck boards that concerns me, but it's only regarding the cosmetics:

http://www.overclock.net/10810200-post879.html (regarding the slivers of light on the Deck keyboards, so ignore the other pictures as it is unrelated to what I'm pointing out)
http://www.overclock.net/10813212-post883.html (big picture fully illustrating this defect)
The conversation started with this: http://www.overclock.net/10808475-post874.html
However, I don't know whether or not this is common.


----------



## lmnop

my uber pudding came out alright. I was hoping it would rise a little more









they do call them defects for a reason. people on the Deck forums call it "LED leakage" but it's really Signature Plastics fault because they don't dye sub the legend properly.

the IBM Model M and Northgate Omnikey used to cost hundreds of dollars and that was over a decade ago. the Deck Legend 105 isn't expensive it's Costar Keyboards like the ABS M1, Filco Majestouch and Das Model S that are inexpensive...


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
When anyone in this world (such as a college professor) mentions "Wiki", they mean Wikipedia. The reason why they say "Wiki" instead of "Wikipedia" is because they don't know that there are other Wikis out there (such as GeekHack's). They think that "Wiki" always means "Wikipedia".

Fortunately, GeekHack's Wiki articles aren't like Wikipedia's articles. I mean, the reason why it isn't a good idea to use Wikipedia is because it isn't a trusted source even though the majority of the content is just fine. This is because it's quite possible that the day you choose to look at a Wikipedia article is the same day some unscrupulous person decided to screw that article up without it being all that obvious to casual observers, or perhaps the article is simply inaccurate and hasn't been noticed by the Wikipedia Community yet. So, it's best to either use GeekHack's wiki articles, or better yet: books. I mean, even GeekHack's Wikipedia articles can be tainted by an unscrupulous person, or simply be inaccurate.


Quote:

However, due to GeekHack itself being nowhere near as popular as Wikipedia, I'm just going to say that GeekHack is a trusted source. After all, it's not "Wikipedia", and therefore it doesn't have any negative connotations with it. I mean, it's likely that your college professor/teacher has never heard of GeekHack before, so that will probably be to your advantage.

fssbz: the reason why I made this correction is because there is a major difference between these two words. Here are their definitions:


Quote:

It could also be a good idea to use some (or all) of the 8 references that are listed at the bottom of this.

I guess some other possible references to use might be things like the first 2 questions on this page:

http://elitekeyboards.com/support.php

There may be other possibilities, such as maybe some documentations created by the Cherry Corporation regarding their keyswitches. But I don't know where to begin or look. However, that could end up complicating things too much thereby making it hard for others to remain interested (I love your determination to keep it as simple as possible to maximize the possibility that they will understand).
man! that is some NICE article there from elitekeyboards!!
simple and easy too!! ahh i miss that..i better add that in.lol.

Quote:

This is an excellent subject for a research paper, but unfortunately it's not a popular one which makes finding really good sources a somewhat difficult task. So I believe that as long as it is clear that your references and sources are 100% trustworthy, then there may be nothing wrong. However, I have no experience with writing a research paper, but I really do want to help in any way that I can (I actually find it difficult to not help when I see ways I can help).

Quote:

When is this due?
in an hour. lol.thanks for your offer to help. i used almost all my sources from Geekhack, they had the most detailed article ever, i search and search and search, nothing can compare to geekhack article when comes to mechanical keyboard...
this is the first time, i ever like and spend a lot of time doing my assignment, because is about mechanical keyboard, which is the most interesting topic among all my assignment in my entire life..







..i love it so much!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
man! that is some NICE article there from elitekeyboards!!
simple and easy too!! ahh i miss that..i better add that in.lol.

in an hour. lol.thanks for your offer to help. i used almost all my sources from Geekhack, they had the most detailed article ever, i search and search and search, nothing can compare to geekhack article when comes to mechanical keyboard...
this is the first time, i ever like and spend a lot of time doing my assignment, because is about mechanical keyboard, which is the most interesting topic among all my assignment in my entire life..







..i love it so much!

You're welcome! I have a feeling that this ended up being a really good research paper since you actually enjoyed writing it!


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
You're welcome! I have a feeling that this ended up being a really good research paper since you actually enjoyed writing it!

ya..is FUN, and i never even getting bored writing it at all..and is even more fun when you actually typing on the mechanical keyboard to do your homework assignment...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
ya..is FUN, and i never even getting bored writing it at all..and is even more fun when you actually typing on the mechanical keyboard to do your homework assignment...









This is the way school and college _should_ be. If I actually enjoyed all of my classes, then I probably would have easily been an A student, or perhaps an A+ student.

And yeah, I can see how much more fun it would be to be able to do my homework on my mechanical keyboard.


----------



## ripster

Quote:

in an hour. lol.thanks for your offer to help. i used almost all my sources from Geekhack, they had the most detailed article ever, i search and search and search, nothing can compare to geekhack article when comes to mechanical keyboard...
Thanks for the compliment. The OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide isn't bad necessarily. Just inaccurate.


----------



## lmnop

Manyak isn't around anymore


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Recall that 2KRO means 2 _minimum_ not maximum. I can mash down loads of keys on a Model M style keyboard when playing a game, it's just that some combinations won't.

Is your current keyboard NKRO?


Yeah, I'm aware that 2KRO is talking in the minimum state. Like 2Cables said, my current board is indeed NKRO. Not that I use nearly that or anything.

My concern about the key rollover on the Unicomp's matrix comes up over a few different combinations. I mostly play first person shooters; but even when I do go for an RTS I try not to use the arrow keys. Using your mouse for screen movement is much faster, and preferred by pretty much every serious RTS player out there. Basically, it comes down to the usual WASD etc. combinations.

Would you mind testing a few for me, actually?

ctrl/shift + w + a + q/e/f/r
ctrl/shift + w + d + q/e/f/r
ctrl/shift + s + a + q/e/f/r
ctrl/shift + s + d + q/e/f/r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Manyak isn't around anymore










He's a travelin' man.


----------



## lmnop

if he cannot fulfill his commitment he should give it to someone who can because the mechanical keyboard guide is terrible as is.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


if he cannot fulfill his commitment he should give it to someone who can because the mechanical keyboard guide is terrible as is.


Terrible? I think it's pretty informative; even if you and ripster find some flaws, I'm sure he'll work to correct them.

The guy has a life, you can't expect him to revolve his schedule around a forum post; can you?


----------



## lmnop

before Manyak was promoted to moderator he was here everyday now he is becoming more distant. the mechanical keyboard guide has become more important than ever.

the mechanical keyboard guide is supposed to guide you from point A to B instead it's turned into a glossary that lacks a sense of direction. there are incomplete sections, wrong information and it could use a new layout.

I am sure Manyak would agree if he was here


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


before Manyak was promoted to moderator he was here everyday now he is becoming more distant and the Mechanical Keyboard Guide is becoming more important.

the Mechanical Keyboard Guide started as a guide but turned into a glossary that lacks a sense of direction, there are incomplete sections, wrong information and it could use a new layout.

I am sure Manyak would agree if he was here










Fair enough I suppose.


----------



## gonX

lmnop if you wish I can try to contact Manyak and see if I can arrange you becoming the owner of this thread.


----------



## lmnop

Phaedrus would be my choice.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Yeah, I'm aware that 2KRO is talking in the minimum state. Like 2Cables said, my current board is indeed NKRO. Not that I use nearly that or anything.

My concern about the key rollover on the Unicomp's matrix comes up over a few different combinations. I mostly play first person shooters; but even when I do go for an RTS I try not to use the arrow keys. Using your mouse for screen movement is much faster, and preferred by pretty much every serious RTS player out there. Basically, it comes down to the usual WASD etc. combinations.

Would you mind testing a few for me, actually?

ctrl/shift + w + a + q/e/f/r
ctrl/shift + w + d + q/e/f/r
ctrl/shift + s + a + q/e/f/r
ctrl/shift + s + d + q/e/f/r

He's a travelin' man.


http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=227291&postcount=591


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=227291&postcount=591


Thanks! That helps a lot, but there's still others I'm curious about. (mostly involving ctrl/shift)


----------



## lmnop

message uncle ripster


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


message uncle ripster


Quite an excellent idea, as usual.


----------



## ripster

Sorry. I just like to lurk here. And seemingly annoy the mods when I bring up a technical issue.

Plus I already said the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide was probably good enough for OCN members.


----------



## House Cat

get a filco


----------



## ripster

Pictures are nice too.


----------



## lmnop

ripster are you going to answer the man or not?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *House Cat*


get a filco


your mother


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Yeah, I'm aware that 2KRO is talking in the minimum state. Like 2Cables said, my current board is indeed NKRO. Not that I use nearly that or anything.

My concern about the key rollover on the Unicomp's matrix comes up over a few different combinations. I mostly play first person shooters; but even when I do go for an RTS I try not to use the arrow keys. Using your mouse for screen movement is much faster, and preferred by pretty much every serious RTS player out there. Basically, it comes down to the usual WASD etc. combinations.

Would you mind testing a few for me, actually?

ctrl/shift + w + a + q/e/f/r
ctrl/shift + w + d + q/e/f/r
ctrl/shift + s + a + q/e/f/r
ctrl/shift + s + d + q/e/f/r

He's a travelin' man.


Two caveats with my testing -

1) Im using an IBM M13 as I dont have a Unicomp with win keys. The matrix is very similar, but I can't guarantee that it will be the exact same. Perhaps someone like Ripster with access to a Unicomp Spacesaver could test further.

2) The test Im using is browser based. This rules out testing combinations with Ctrl (try pressing Ctrl + W or Ctrl + Q in your browser, it's awesome, I swear!) On the non-Windows key Model Ms, I'm almost certain that Ctrl gets its own matrix column anyway, so blocking shouldn't be a huge issue anyway) Not sure how the presence of Windows keys changes this.

Anyway, to the test!

shift + w + a -

Q is blocked. E, F, R work. EF works, ER works, FR does not work.

shift + w + d -

E is blocked. Q, F, R work. QE works, QF works. Again, FR does not work.

shift + s + a -

(Same results as the first one)

shift + s + d -

(By the wonders of symmetry, same as the second one)


----------



## Maytan

Well, so long as a few ctrl combinations work for me, that should be good enough.

Danke for your help, I didn't expect most of those to work; hence my earlier doubt. Definitely worth reconsidering at this point.


----------



## bluexselvedge

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


It's a bit like comparing a bunch of high-quality, highly-recommended power supplies: there comes a point where you just have to pick the one you like the most because they are all great.

I mean, just because Decks are the best in terms of build quality, they are still significantly more expensive than any Das Model S or Filco Majestouch.

However, there is one thing about the Deck boards that concerns me, but it's only regarding the cosmetics:

http://www.overclock.net/10810200-post879.html (regarding the slivers of light on the Deck keyboards, so ignore the other pictures as it is unrelated to what I'm pointing out)
http://www.overclock.net/10813212-post883.html (big picture fully illustrating this defect)
The conversation started with this: http://www.overclock.net/10808475-post874.html
However, I don't know whether or not this is common.


thanks for the info. i went back and forth with those brands ive mentioned earlier but i always end up goin back to this: http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional-silent/

i like the deck legend fire too but im not sure if black switches (i think?) are right for me. this will be my first mechanical kb. i will read up some more after work before i pull the trigger.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *House Cat*


get a filco


Filcos are nice.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bluexselvedge*


thanks for the info. i went back and forth with those brands ive mentioned earlier but i always end up goin back to this: http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional-silent/

i like the deck legend fire too but im not sure if black switches (i think?) are right for me. this will be my first mechanical kb. i will read up some more after work before i pull the trigger.


I was in your position once as well and ended getting the same Das you are looking at. Its been over 5 months now and I'm not disappointed 1 bit. I'm pretty sure you'll like it as well. Haven't really met anyone who despised them or anything...


----------



## fssbzz

i love my das silent too. especially when comes to typing..on gaming..it works great..
my only complain is that the edge of the keycap is kinda SHARP, which hurt my finger when i was extreme gaming..especially the arrow key..


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


i love my das silent too. especially when comes to typing..on gaming..it works great..
my only complain is that the edge of the keycap is kinda SHARP, which hurt my finger when i was extreme gaming..especially the arrow key..


Edge of the keycap...sharp? Not sure what you are referring to. :x In my head I'm picturing a man with such fat fingers it covers more than the whole keycap when he presses it down. If this is you, I apologize beforehand.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Edge of the keycap...sharp? Not sure what you are referring to. :x In my head I'm picturing a man with such fat fingers it covers more than the whole keycap when he presses it down. If this is you, I apologize beforehand.


like the edge







in the red circle.
like i move my finger from UP, RIGHT to DOWN, LEFT.it hurt some time..feel like getting cut.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


like the edge







in the red circle.
like i move my finger from UP, RIGHT to DOWN, LEFT.it hurt some time..feel like getting cut.


Ok just wanted to make sure that was what you were talking about. Strange though. Never heard of a thing like this before


----------



## lmnop

me either. this sounds like a case for House.


----------



## thisispatrick

Problem solved?


----------



## lmnop

the epiphany is supposed to be at the last minute. episode ruined! <tosses 2 percocet in the air and catches them with her mouth>


----------



## Maytan

Just a few more questions on the Unicomp..

Quote:

My biggest complaint at the moment lies with the build quality. Granted, this is still a high-quality product made in the United States, but it's not hard to notice the leftover plastic around keycaps or the (unintentional?) gap between the top half and the bottom half of the plastic shielding.
I'm a bit of an OCD person when it comes to my computer things. This was in the post that Ripster pointed out to me; and I fear little details like these might bother the living hell out of me. Comments?

My second question is about double-piece keycaps. I heard this term around the Unicomps a lot; what does it mean, exactly?

Thirdly and finally, I seem to recall hearing a post about the Unicomp's keys being very uneven. That is to say, some required a noticeable amount of more force than others; and some didn't bottom out quite the same. Once again, while I'm a bit OCD, I'm not a perfectionist. I don't expect keys evened out to the last fraction of a gram, but something extremely noticeable would definitely bug me.


----------



## lmnop

Deck and Unicomp are the only American Made mechanical keyboards.

2-Piece Keycaps.


----------



## ch_123

Maytan said:


> Just a few more questions on the Unicomp..
> 
> Quote:
> 
> I'm a bit of an OCD person when it comes to my computer things. This was in the post that Ripster pointed out to me; and I fear little details like these might bother the living hell out of me. Comments?
> The finish and overall 'polish' on Unicomp's keyboards isn't quite as good as that of Costar's or Deck's, but for actual overall build quality, the Unicomps win out.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> My second question is about double-piece keycaps. I heard this term around the Unicomps a lot; what does it mean, exactly?
> See the link lmnop posted.
> 
> The white Unicomps traditionally are double-part whereas the black/grey ones were usually single part. I think though that they may have switched over to double part ones for the latter too. Either way, it doesn't really make much difference to the feel of the keyboard, it was just a convenience feature for those who used custom keycaps.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> Thirdly and finally, I seem to recall hearing a post about the Unicomp's keys being very uneven. That is to say, some required a noticeable amount of more force than others; and some didn't bottom out quite the same. Once again, while I'm a bit OCD, I'm not a perfectionist. I don't expect keys evened out to the last fraction of a gram, but something extremely noticeable would definitely bug me.
> Not true. This is, however, true of well-worn buckling spring keyboards.


----------



## lmnop

mmm Cuddy (House is on tv) I can't tell you what I would do to her I would be banned lol


----------



## Maytan

ch_123 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Maytan*
> Just a few more questions on the Unicomp..
> 
> The finish and overall 'polish' on Unicomp's keyboards isn't quite as good as that of Costar's or Deck's, but for actual overall build quality, the Unicomps win out.
> 
> See the link lmnop posted.
> 
> The white Unicomps traditionally are double-part whereas the black/grey ones were usually single part. I think though that they may have switched over to double part ones for the latter too. Either way, it doesn't really make much difference to the feel of the keyboard, it was just a convenience feature for those who used custom keycaps.
> 
> Not true. This is, however, true of well-worn buckling spring keyboards.
> 
> Once again, thanks for all the help. Both you and lmnop have cleared up pretty much any question that comes to my mind currently. Definitely sounds like a winner; I'm always in the mood to buy American-made.
> 
> With that said, I emailed their support asking if I could get a shipping estimate. Need to plan out my budget.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lmnop*
> mmm Cuddy (House is on tv) I can't tell you what I would do to her I would be banned lol
> 
> Speaking of House, I used to enjoy the show. After so many times, however; I couldn't stomach it anymore. Hospitals scare me.
> 
> I could use Dr. House right now, though. I've got a blister the size of half a ping-pong ball on my palm. Poison Ivy sucks!


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
mmm Cuddy (House is on tv) I can't tell you what I would do to her I would be banned lol

I'm watching Chuck atm. I can't tell you what I would do to 7/8 of the females on there because I would be banned.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 

I could use Dr. House right now, though. I've got a blister the size of half a ping-pong ball on my palm. Poison Ivy sucks!

I think it could be Lupus.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluexselvedge* 
thanks for the info. i went back and forth with those brands ive mentioned earlier but i always end up goin back to this: http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional-silent/

i like the deck legend fire too but im not sure if black switches (i think?) are right for me. this will be my first mechanical kb. i will read up some more after work before i pull the trigger.

The Deck Legend Fire definitely has the Cherry MX Blacks.

Now, I think that since you're considering all of these high-end keyboards, the final decision can probably just come down to the key switch, the overall appearance, and the price (but I think that the XArmor is an exception due to its rubber coating).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
like the edge







in the red circle.
like i move my finger from UP, RIGHT to DOWN, LEFT.it hurt some time..feel like getting cut.

Oh. Those are the corners on the tops of the keycaps. The edges are where the side of the keycaps meet the top and form a little ledge, or perhaps a cliff.

So, how high is your keyboard in relation to your body? I mean, is it at the same height as your shoulders? Is it the same height as your stomach? Is it the same height as your waist? How high is your keyboard? And how much of an angle is it at?

I mean, I want to understand how these corners are digging into your fingers because this is very unusual.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Once again, thanks for all the help. Both you and lmnop have cleared up pretty much any question that comes to my mind currently. Definitely sounds like a winner; I'm always in the mood to buy American-made.

With that said, I emailed their support asking if I could get a shipping estimate. Need to plan out my budget.









Another way to get a shipping estimate is just by pretending to order the keyboard you want. Once you enter your shipping address, just click "Apply" on the shipping option that you have selected, and then you end up with the exact amount of the final cost that you would pay. Plus, you can then change the shipping option and click "Apply" after changing it to get the new shipping cost; it recalculates your shopping cart.

This is pretty much how it should be done for most stores.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
I think it could be Lupus.

E-Gad!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Another way to get a shipping estimate is just by pretending to order the keyboard you want. Once you enter your shipping address, just click "Apply" on the shipping option that you have selected, and then you end up with the exact amount of the final cost that you would pay. Plus, you can then change the shipping option and click "Apply" after changing it to get the new shipping cost; it recalculates your shopping cart.

This is pretty much how it should be done for most stores.









I'm not stupid.







That's what I usually do, but as I was going through the check out process I didn't see anything regarding shipping coming up. I got out of there just to be safe; maybe I'll do it again.

Nevermind, I AM stupid. It only took a few seconds to calculate the shipping. My paranoia got the best of me earlier, I guess.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
E-Gad!

I'm not stupid.







That's what I usually do, but as I was going through the check out process I didn't see anything regarding shipping coming up. I got out of there just to be safe; maybe I'll do it again.

I didn't say you were, nor did I even think it.

Anyway, check this out:

http://home.comcast.net/~tim2679/UnicompShipping.png

*Edit:* Nevermind. I see it's all good now. I confess that I too feel a little bit of paranoia every single time I do this, but here's the one thing that calms down each and every single time: nothing is final until I have entered all of my credit card/check card information. So if I haven't entered any payment information, then I can feel 100% safe doing this to find out what my final cost will be.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I didn't say you were, nor did I even think it.

Anyway, check this out:

*snip*

*Edit:* Nevermind. I see it's all good now. I confess that I too feel a little bit of paranoia every single time I do this, but here's the one thing that calms down each and every single time: nothing is final until I have entered all of my credit card/check card information. So if I haven't entered any payment information, then I can feel 100% safe doing this to find out what my final cost will be.

Yeah, I just tend to be extra precautious to the point of failing to realize things like that.

I appreciate you going so far as to lay out the process like that for me, though.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Yeah, I just tend to be extra precautious to the point of failing to realize things like that.

I appreciate you going so far as to lay out the process like that for me, though.










It's all good. You're very welcome.

(by the way, that was just a URL to my image, so it didn't have to be removed to save space or anything)


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
It's all good. You're very welcome.

(by the way, that was just a URL to my image, so it didn't have to be removed to save space or anything)

D'oh! I'm using the Text-to-Image Firefox plug-in. Turns all image links into thumbnails, so it looked like an image to me. (I didn't even look for IMG tags.







)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
D'oh! I'm using the Text-to-Image Firefox plug-in. Turns all image links into thumbnails, so it looked like an image to me. (I didn't even look for IMG tags.







)

Whoa. I didn't know such an extension existed.

But, I did indeed attach the image as well just for good measure.


----------



## Maytan

Hmm, can't choose.

Do I want the smaller size of the SpaceSaver? Or do I want the extra weight of the Customizer? Such a hard choice....


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
me either. this sounds like a case for House.






best show ever

...

EVER


----------



## lmnop

I like Fringe more. House is too repetitive it could go 20 seasons like Law & Order.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Fair enough! Never seen Fringe so I cannot respond at this moment.


----------



## W4LNUT5

StarcraftII > Television


----------



## thiru

Minecraft > all activities


----------



## thisispatrick

Eating and Sleeping>Minecraft


----------



## hometoast

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Eating and Sleeping>Minecraft


seems you have an illegal Boolean expression.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hometoast*


seems you have an illegal Boolean expression.


Sorry. Let me fix it then.
Eating and sleeping are much better choices of activities than playing Minecraft.
Carry on.


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Eating and Sleeping>Minecraft


lol, casual players


----------



## thisispatrick

I admit it was fun for a while but then I hit the plateau of boringness.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Anticipation is a little too much. I already have a couple Tactile Touch Filcos, but I want some MX Blues...and I'm curious to see if the build quality is comparable. I got a hell of a deal on this.

Online tracking is a blessing and a curse though.


----------



## hometoast

Quote:



Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing*


Online tracking is a blessing and a curse though.



*Refresh*
nope.
*Refresh*
nope.
*Refresh*
nope.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hometoast*


*Refresh*
nope.
*Refresh*
nope.
*Refresh*
nope.


UPS could probably make more money off of me if they shipped the package for free but charged a penny a refresh


----------



## gonX




----------



## candy_van

My Das has been "Out For Delivery" since 5:40 AM


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
Fair enough! Never seen Fringe so I cannot respond at this moment.

Fringe is J.J Abrams (Lost) take on the X-Files. the show is setup like
House. a team that investigates cases but unlike House there are story arcs.

Walter Bishop or Dr. Bishop is a brilliant scientist played by John Noble basically a older, eccentric, hippy version of House.

watch the pilot


----------



## Tatakai All

I've been watching Fringe since it was a pilot and I've enjoyed it up until this past episode. It was terrible and I don't know where they're taking the show, but so far I don't like the played out, "don't know who you are" and "thinking you're someone else" theme.


----------



## lmnop

I like it. Season 2 was pretty slow but it picked up. "Unearthed" was terrible.

for people who haven't watched the show. they filmed a episode for Season 1 called "Unearthed" that wasn't very good so they removed it. in Season 2 they added it. the problem is one of the characters in the episode died 10 episodes earlier and the audience was confused because he was alive and well lol talk about amateur hour


----------



## candy_van

Right so the Das came in today; very nice board but after finally getting to compare the different switch types I definitely prefer MX Clears over MX Browns.
I can play with it for a little while I guess, but will probably just sell it here since I'd get hit with a restocking fee anyway for a return (will put up an appraisal separately).

Back to the Deck:

Is there somewhere I could get different keys for it?
The font doesn't really bug me that much, but I'm curious now









Also going to pick-up a palm rest to go with this.

Was probably just going to pick up one of

 these
at Staples; anything else out there that's a must have in this dept?
I know you can get leather ones over at Elite Keyboards, but $68 for a palm rest...meh


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candy_van* 
Right so the Das came in today; very nice board but after finally getting to compare the different switch types I definitely prefer MX Clears over MX Browns.
I can play with it for a little while I guess, but will probably just sell it here since I'd get hit with a restocking fee anyway for a return (will put up an appraisal separately).

Back to the Deck:

Is there somewhere I could get different keys for it?
The font doesn't really bug me that much, but I'm curious now









Also going to pick-up a palm rest to go with this.

Was probably just going to pick up one of these at Staples; anything else out there that's a must have in this dept?
I know you can get leather ones over at Elite Keyboards, but $68 for a palm rest...meh









Good bye new Das :'(
That's the wrist rest that I think 80% of us use. Its great in my opinion.


----------



## lmnop

3M Silicone Wrist Rest is nice

a couple members at geekhack use the Contour rollermouse but it's really expensive. ricer uses it with his Deck and TG3 82.


----------



## CarFreak302

I am interested in finally getting into the mech keyboard thing, and figured I'd go with a model M. Is there a better starter mech keyboard out there for the money? I was looking at this one specifically: http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-IBM-Clic...item27b53c9e13


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarFreak302* 
I am interested in finally getting into the mech keyboard thing, and figured I'd go with a model M. Is there a better starter mech keyboard out there for the money? I was looking at this one specifically: http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-IBM-Clic...item27b53c9e13

that Model M is rubber dome not Buckling Spring.


----------



## CarFreak302

Oh....well then. Guess not that one.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarFreak302* 
Oh....well then. Guess not that one.

have you considered a Unicomp Customizer or Spacesaver?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Ebayers will call anything clicky.


----------



## lmnop

Unicomp springs are 5g lighter than IBM and sound less pingy.

with the Customizer you can choose Language, Windows Key/No Windows Key, Black or Beige color, Printed or Blank Keycaps, PS/2 or USB.

the Spacesaver has a smaller foot print (less plastic bezel) and comes with a Windows Key. you can choose Language, Black or Beige color, Printed or Blank Keycaps, PS/2 or USB.

both cost $70. if your not interested I am sure someone will help you find a Model M on eBay.


----------



## candy_van

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Good bye new Das :'(
That's the wrist rest that I think 80% of us use. Its great in my opinion.

I know...but I'm in love with my Deck








Appraisal is up BTW if anyone wants to toss in their
















Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
3M Silicone Wrist Rest is nice

a couple members at geekhack use the Contour rollermouse but it's really expensive. ricer uses it with his Deck and TG3 82.

Hmmm well I guess I'll stick with the 3M one then, that rollermouse doesn't look so comfortable to me.


----------



## bluexselvedge

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candy_van* 
I know...but I'm in love with my Deck








Appraisal is up BTW if anyone wants to toss in their
















if you decide to sell and dont find a buyer by Oct 4th/5th... i may be interested (unless i go the Deck Legend route), shoot me a PM or email at [email protected] and maybe we can work out a deal


----------



## LarsMarkelson

What's everyone's favorite programming font?

I'm a noob but I've been using Courier New.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
What's everyone's favorite programming font?

I'm a noob but I've been using Courier New.

Why are you asking in here? I'm confused.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
What's everyone's favorite programming font?

I'm a noob but I've been using Courier New.

consolas

I miss fixedsys


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Why are you asking in here? I'm confused.

I figure some of the people here are programmers


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
consolas

I miss fixedsys









why do you miss it? can't you just install it if you don't have it?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
I figure some of the people here are programmers









It's just that there might be a few more here:

http://www.overclock.net/coding-programming/


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
I figure some of the people here are programmers









http://www.hackification.com/2009/04...os-hidden-gem/


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
It's just that there might be a few more here:

http://www.overclock.net/coding-programming/










o.









but i don't know anybody there!


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
http://www.hackification.com/2009/04...os-hidden-gem/

awesome link. thx!

i'll have to try some of these. consalas, and then these i found in the comments of that article:

http://www.proggyfonts.com/index.php?menu=download <-- looks pretty cool

And then this one too, envy code r


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
why do you miss it? can't you just install it if you don't have it?

I think Microsoft dropped support for raster fonts.


----------



## TwoCables

Wow. OCN really needs to update their available fonts! I love Verdana, but I think it's time to move on.


----------



## lmnop

didjamatic is selling his Ortek MCK-84 on eBay. rare one. should fetch a penny


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Well, my RK-9000 arrived. Bad news is that it probably won't be ready for pickup for another couple hours.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Let us know how it is.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

RK-9000:










I have to run for a couple hours but I'll update then. I'm certain it's a Costar board.

Can't give it a thumbs up until I rule out any controller issues though.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Wow. OCN really needs to update their available fonts! I love Verdana, but I think it's time to move on.










Verdana FTW. I liked the way it swings the leg out on the R so I chose it for my watermark. Helvetica is kinda snobby.









If you are picky about fonts the Geekhack Key Reference Wiki lists the fonts used on various keyboards.


----------



## lmnop

can you stop plugging your wiki every 5 minutes please lol


----------



## ripster

Only when it's relevant to the discussion at hand. Like fonts.


----------



## lmnop

every post now cut it out.. lol


----------



## De-Zant

I wanna know. I have a AT102W. That has the same switches as AT101W doesn't it? If not, this question is useless









And I see so many people who include the AT101W in usable keyboards category.

To be honest. If the 101W has the same switches as the AT102W, I would pick almost any rubber dome rather than that. It's like it's a rubber dome board with bad build quality that tries so hard to be a mechanical...

Do people usually consider the switches ok or bad? Because in my case I don't like the switches on my AT102W... It has been used, but not alot. I heard that the switches in it degrade pretty quickly.

I'm wondering why people bring those up in here a lot. In my opinion, it's not that great. With typing it equals a rubber dome for me, with games.. rubber domes win (aside from possibly better KRO with the AT102W)

Of course I sit here with my SS 6Gv2 because it was the only mechanical I could find with the finnish layout (that fullfilled some requirements.) I like it.

Thanks!

PS, Not so informed on keyboard history. Just that this though was wondering around my head for a few days....


----------



## Phaedrus2129

They use black Alps. Black Alps are considered decent... when brand new. When they've been used and accumulated dirt for several decades they go from "decent" to "meeeehhhh".


----------



## De-Zant

Does it make that much of a difference? Dust/dirt? I'm not sure if this model has been used a lot..


----------



## Phaedrus2129

It does with that particular switch. They aren't great even when new, almost everyone prefers MX switches over them. The only Alps switches that are really great are White Alps, especially dampened ones, which can approach buckling spring levels of tactility.


----------



## ch_123

Yeah, a worn out Dell AT feels little better than a rubber dome keyboard.

One in good condition is still pretty mediocre.


----------



## De-Zant

What made these keyboards so popular? Were they cheap, or something else?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Dell packaged them with prebuilts all the way up to the early 2000s, until they went the ultra-cheap rubber dome route.


----------



## ch_123

They were bundled with most Dell computers up till around the turn of the millennium, and there are lots of Dell computers around. Thus the ubiquity.

The build quality is hardly awe-inspiring (not surprising given that they were made by the same people who make Dell's current keyboards) and the Black Alps are pretty unpopular amongst people who have tried a few different types of keyswitches.


----------



## De-Zant

Ok... Thanks for the information


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Here's a link to my initial impressions of the RK-9000 for anyone who is interested.


----------



## fssbzz

NKRO on Razer BlackWidow with native PS/2?









is this true?


----------



## lmnop

Razer Blackwidow Ultimate does not support NKRO or have a native PS/2 cable.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
NKRO on Razer BlackWidow with native PS/2?









is this true?

Weasel words. They're saying antighosting on the blackwidow is _similar_ to NKRO, not the same. Dissect it statement by statement.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Razer*
Yes, the Razer BlackWidow features a gaming optimized key matrix that allows the recognition up to six simultaneous key presses.

Maximum rollover, like on most boards, is six keys. Minimum rollover, like most boards (including the G series and other gaming boards) is 2KRO.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Razer*
N-key rollover (NKRO) only works with a direct connection to a native PS/2 port on the computer which provides for other limitations that USB overcomes.

It's easier to do the macro recording, etc. with USB - those are the limitations.

The "only works on PS/2" thing is _technically true_, but deceptive- you'd get six keys on a keyboard with NKRO when using PS/2, but you'd get any possible combination of six keys, not a few of them.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Razer*
The Razer BlackWidow's gaming optimized key matrix serves a similar purpose while using an ordinary USB port.

Described above.


----------



## fssbzz

wait so if use








on blackwidow, it will work NKRO?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
wait so if use








on blackwidow, it will work NKRO?

it doesn't have NKRO. my word isn't good enough? you can output a maximum of 6 keys on certain combinations, minimum of 2.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
it doesn't have NKRO. my word isn't good enough? you can output a maximum of 6 keys on certain combinations, minimum of 2.

oh ok thanks.
your words is good enough..is just my english is suck enough to understand. my bad.
so even i read the FAQ in razer site about that NKRO thingy..i cant understand it very well, that is why i post it here


----------



## ripster

You know the Geekhack NKRO wiki is quite complete and includes the specific failure modes on these "Gaming Optimized" keyboards including the new Razer Black Widow.

If you don't have time to read it in a nutshell a guaranteed 6 key rollover (6KRO) over USB is sufficient if you mouse with one hand and use the keyboard with the other.

It's pretty simple really.


----------



## lmnop

I hope the song is in your head forever.


----------



## lmnop

Christine Cat in your head ****ing with your ****.

more lols


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
You know the Geekhack NKRO wiki is quite complete and includes the specific failure modes on these "Gaming Optimized" keyboards including the new Razer Black Widow.

If you don't have time to read it in a nutshell a guaranteed 6 key rollover (6KRO) over USB is sufficient if you mouse with one hand and use the keyboard with the other.

It's pretty simple really.

got it...
lol you got soooooo much LEGO!!!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
You know the Geekhack NKRO wiki is quite complete and includes the specific failure modes on these "Gaming Optimized" keyboards including the new Razer Black Widow.

If you don't have time to read it in a nutshell a guaranteed 6 key rollover (6KRO) over USB is sufficient if you mouse with one hand and use the keyboard with the other.

It's pretty simple really.

It's important to note that the black widow only has 2KRO, and could lock up even when playing with one hand. From the sound of it they made sure WASD doesn't lock up, anything else could be a gamble.


----------



## ripster

Yep. That's what the wiki says.

Quote:

Razer Black Widow (lighted and non-lighted): 2KRO. Fails CRTL-AQ. Well optimized around WASD/ESDF clusters. Not so much for arrow key users. Source 1.


----------



## KipH

Hey. Keyboards remember. Any word on this one. I think I remember rubber but ?
and 20 key "anti-ghosting" ARG! I talked to them about that at Computex. They give the same answer as Micro$oft "Its what the gamers call it.

Gigabyte


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
Hey. Keyboards remember. Any word on this one. I think I remember rubber but ?
and 20 key "anti-ghosting" ARG! I talked to them about that at Computex. They give the same answer as Micro$oft "Its what the gamers call it.

Gigabyte

It's too late to stop the anti-ghosting terminology now. Even Deck mentions it in their FaQ.

Quote:

For all USB Deck products there is a limit of 6 keys + modifier keys (shifts and alts) that can be pressed at any given time and still registered by your computer. This is limited by the USB specification. All Deck Legend PS2 products have full n-key rollover meaning you can press as many keys at the same time as you want and they should all register to your computer without "ghosting" as some call it.


----------



## ripster

The OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide does not help the confusion with this definition. ANY keyboard can handle up to 8 keys at once if you search long enough.

Quote:



You might also hear the term where n is replaced with a number (i.e., 6-key rollover), which means that up to that number of keys can be pressed simultaneously.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


NKRO on Razer BlackWidow with native PS/2?









is this true?


They're trying to say that both of their BlackWidows are superior because they don't require the use of PS/2 in order to achieve key rollover that is good enough for gaming. They're saying that their matrix is good enough even though it is nowhere near full NKRO.

Take notice of how they claim that the PS/2 connection creates limitations that USB overcomes. This is Razer's sneaky way of saying that PS/2 is inferior because if you have a PS/2-only keyboard (with no option for USB without a PS/2 to USB adapter), then you will be screwed if there's no PS/2 port which would force you to use an adapter. So they're trying to say that by using this matrix, they didn't have to make this keyboard into a full NKRO keyboard which means it doesn't need PS/2 which means that it can always use USB which they're saying is superior because obviously, you can plug a USB keyboard into any USB port.

But in reality, they're just trying to maximize their sales by saying "our keyboard is the best mechanical keyboard on the market, and here's why". The chance of making money will cause a company to do almost anything to sell their product, even if it means being sneaky in their advertising. Even people who only speak English will think that this answer in the FAQ means that it has full NKRO when using an adapter. Mark my words: we will eventually see somebody complaining that the BlackWidow does not work with a USB to PS/2 adapter; these people will say that Razer lied.

But I see right through it (and it actually makes me angry that they're being this sneaky). They're saying that the BlackWidow is the superior choice because it doesn't have full NKRO which means it doesn't require the use of PS/2 just to have peace of mind that there won't be any key rollover issues. This is supposedly because the matrix they chose is good enough that it might seem like it has full NKRO for all normal gaming use. But here's something that I find funny about that answer that Razer gave: USB spec limits key rollover to 6 simultaneous key presses along with 4 simultaneous modifiers (like Ctrl, Shift, Alt, etc.). So, their "gaming matrix" is nothing special. Even the lowly little Logitech G11 seems like it has full NKRO for all practical purposes even though it does not. Does the Logitech G11 have a special "gaming matrix"? Nope!









So, screw Razer.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


It's too late to stop the anti-ghosting terminology now. Even Deck mentions it in their FaQ.


Fortunately, Deck is just making sure everyone understands what the actual terminology is without being negative and saying _"...as some incorrectly call it_" or something to that effect. I mean, they could have just been lazy and said that it has "extreme anti-ghosting". heh

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


The OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide does not help the confusion with this definition. ANY keyboard can handle up to 8 keys at once if you search long enough.


You're the first person I've ever seen in this thread to say that the USB spec limit is 8 simultaneous presses and not 6. Is it really 8?


----------



## Munkypoo7

Uhm, excuse the noobyness, but Munky has a question









I plan on getting the Razer BlackWidow Ultimate, my question is, to achieve full NKRO, would a USB to PS/2 (purple-y) actually make it work, or will it always be limited?

Reason I ask is since my E767 has a PS/2 port for keyboards available... why not use it and take full advantage? ^^


----------



## ripster

From the "NKey Rollover - Overview, Testing Methodology, and Results". I thought I had posted a link before but perhaps not.

Quote:



You want to report the MINIMUM number of keys before key blocking occurs! Even a lowly $10 keyboard will be able to report some 6 key combinations such as for example but block a 3 key combo. A Model M keyboard can report up to 8 keys for example (CTRL-ALT-SPACEBAR-SHIFT-Z-X-C-V) but fail ASX. If you post your MAXIMUM keys recognized I reserve the right to delete your post and ridicule your education in Statistics. Remember, the goal here is to look for where a keyboard fails. Itâ€™s up to the reader of this wiki to decide the failure mode is important or not.


Another thing that bothers me is the Mechanical Keyboard Guide lists the Deck 82-key as a highly regarded keyboard yet it is USB only (no cable swap possible on that one). The recommendation clearly though in the other section is PS/2 over USB.

In other words the logic of the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide is internally inconsistent.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Munkypoo7*


Uhm, excuse the noobyness, but Munky has a question










I plan on getting the Razer BlackWidow Ultimate, my question is, to achieve full NKRO, would a USB to PS/2 (purple-y) actually make it work, or will it always be limited?

Reason I ask is since my E767 has a PS/2 port for keyboards available... why not use it and take full advantage? ^^


Neither of Razer's BlackWidow keyboards feature full NKRO. So using a USB to PS/2 adapter might actually result in no function at all.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


From the "NKey Rollover - Overview, Testing Methodology, and Results". I thought I had posted a link before but perhaps not.

Another thing that bothers me is the Mechanical Keyboard Guide lists the Deck 82-key as a highly regarded keyboard yet it is USB only (no cable swap possible on that one). The recommendation clearly though in the other section is PS/2 over USB.

In other words the logic of the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide is internally inconsistent.


So it's still 6 simultaneous keys plus 4 modifiers.


----------



## runeazn

Ripster btw, all arrows + CTRL, L and R

worked that are 6 keys :/

with my g19


----------



## Munkypoo7

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Neither of Razer's BlackWidow keyboards feature full NKRO. So using a USB to PS/2 adapter might actually result in no function at all.

So it's still 6 simultaneous keys plus 4 modifiers.


Meh oh well, still works for me, thanks TwoCables


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Neither of Razer's BlackWidow keyboards feature full NKRO. So using a USB to PS/2 adapter might actually result in no function at all.

So it's still 6 simultaneous keys plus 4 modifiers.


If the keyboard doesn't come with a Purple adapter it probably was never designed to work with PS/2. The Rosewill is a funny exception the cheap b*****.

BTW the Razer is 2KRO as shown in the Geekhack wiki cited above.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


If the keyboard doesn't come with a Purple adapter it probably was never designed to work with PS/2. The Rosewill is a funny exception the cheap b*****.

BTW the Razer is 2KRO as shown in the Geekhack wiki cited above.


You mean in YOUR GeekHack wiki.


----------



## runeazn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


You mean in YOUR GeekHack wiki.



















true


----------



## ripster

Thanks for the compliment. Actually the Geekhack NKRO wiki includes the results from over 30 individual Geekhack members. Sources are cited next to each of the keyboards.

No disrepect meant for the keyboard guide here - it is excellent for beginners. Just a bit rocky when it comes to technical issues.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Thanks for the compliment. Actually the Geekhack NKRO wiki includes the results from over 30 individual Geekhack members. Sources are cited next to each of the keyboards.

No disrepect meant for the keyboard guide here - it is excellent for beginners. Just a bit rocky when it comes to technical issues.


So, have you sent a private message to Manyak about it yet?


----------



## ripster

At Geekhack we discuss technical issues openly in order to gain understanding.

Maybe it's different here.


----------



## runeazn

mehehe GH isnt a friendly community but well yeh :/

they still have more info on Mehanical keyboards


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


At Geekhack we discuss technical issues openly in order to gain understanding.

Maybe it's different here.


But my point is this: Manyak is the author, but yet he also isn't here as often as he used to be. Plus, this thread moves very fast. So therefore, sending him a private message detailing everything you believe needs to be corrected is a much better use of your time instead of saying it within this thread every chance you get. I mean, I'll be honest and admit that I'm getting irritated; but that's just because I don't skip a single post when I'm catching up. So, I've seen every last one of your posts where you comment about how you feel Manyak's OP needs to be corrected/improved.

So since he is the author and since he isn't here that often, what good does it do to continually state your opinion of his OP when it could be much better to just send him a private message and then wait patiently for him to fix it when he finally has time (which is apparently this weekend)? Do you believe that your posts are going to be seen by newcomers? This thread is so huge that most newcomers are only going to look at the OP and then post their reply without reading any of the existing posts. I know I didn't when I first posted in this thread.

I just know that if this were my thread, then it would be significantly easier for me if somebody would send me a private message instead of hoping that I would see the comment in the thread - especially if I didn't come here often enough due to being really busy. It's like owning a club thread and also being really busy: it's much easier to have everyone send a private message to you requesting to be added as opposed to just sticking a reply in there which gets buried within a few hours.

In other words: OCN is a much busier place than GeekHack, so sometimes the best way to get the attention of somebody who owns a really busy thread like this one is to send them a private message instead of hoping that they'll see one of your posts in their thread. But on GeekHack, how many threads move as quickly as this one?


----------



## ripster

If I can't comment on the OCN guide what IS the purpose of this #8336 post thread?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


If I can't comment on the OCN guide what IS the purpose of this #8336 post thread?


The kind of comments you are making are only useful to Manyak because only Manyak can do anything about it. I bet that he hasn't seen any of your posts where you've made these comments.


----------



## Manyak

Yes, I want to get it done this weekend. Only thing is, I think I'm gonna need some help. It's gonna be a _lot_ of work doing a complete overhaul.

And I apologize I haven't been around as much. This year has _really_ been hectic for me :/


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Yes, I want to get it done this weekend. Only thing is, I think I'm gonna need some help. It's gonna be a _lot_ of work doing a complete overhaul.

And I apologize I haven't been around as much. This year has _really_ been hectic for me :/


I'm available to help!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I'm available to help!


Awesome









I've actually got to go to class now, so how about tonight we'll see if there's anyone else and we'll figure out how to go about doing it


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Awesome









I've actually got to go to class now, so how about tonight we'll see if there's anyone else and we'll figure out how to go about doing it










That sounds great!


----------



## KipH

I can help if you don't mind some spelling mistaks.
Because you know: hukt on fonik wurkt four me.


----------



## thisispatrick

Woot a whole revamp! Whee!
Edit: Don't forget to drag Phaedrus in here as well. Christine too.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


I can help if you don't mind some spelling mistaks.
Because you know: hukt on fonik wurkt four me.


lol, ok









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Woot a whole revamp! Whee!
Edit: Don't forget to drag Phaedrus in here as well. Christine too.


If they want to help they're more than welcome to


----------



## TwoCables

The reason why I want to help is to make sure the readability is as easy and as smooth as possible. I also want to make sure there are no English mistakes (including spelling, grammar, etc.).

There are other things I want to do, but it all revolves around making sure it's as perfect as possible.

*Edit:* Regarding the readability: I basically want to make sure that there are as few questions generated by the guide as possible.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


The reason why I want to help is to make sure the readability is as easy and as smooth as possible. I also want to make sure there are no English mistakes (including spelling, grammar, etc.).

There are other things I want to do, but it all revolves around making sure it's as perfect as possible.

*Edit:* Regarding the readability: I basically want to make sure that there are as few questions generated by the guide as possible.


Yeah, that's basically the whole point of the overhaul. To 1) actually teach about what they need to know about mechanical keyboards instead of just throwing the information out there (what a mechanical switch is, how it's beneficial, how NKRO works, etc), and then 2) take them through the selection process.

And I'm thinking the list of keyboards - besides being updated - should be changed so that all the basic info is to the right of the image (which means putting the text in another image), then underneath is a description of the board and all it's quirks. Then there would be links to a few reviews of each one either here or on geekhack or wherever (as long as they're not stupid reviews, which as we know happens a lot with keyboards).


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Yeah, that's basically the whole point of the overhaul. To 1) actually teach about what they need to know about mechanical keyboards instead of just throwing the information out there (what a mechanical switch is, how it's beneficial, how NKRO works, etc), and then 2) take them through the selection process.

And I'm thinking the list of keyboards - besides being updated - should be changed so that all the basic info is to the right of the image (which means putting the text in another image), then underneath is a description of the board and all it's quirks. Then there would be links to a few reviews of each one either here or on geekhack or wherever (as long as they're not stupid reviews, which as we know happens a lot with keyboards).


This is gonna take some time, but I believe that the end result is going to make it all very worth it!


----------



## KipH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


The reason why I want to help is to make sure the readability is as easy and as smooth as possible. I also want to make sure there are no English mistakes (including spelling, grammar, etc.).

There are other things I want to do, but it all revolves around typing on my mechanical keyboard as much as possible.

*Edit:* Regarding the readability: I basically want to make sure that there are as few questions generated by the guide as possible.


Fixed it for you. I know that's what you really want to do.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


Fixed it for you. I know that's what you really want to do.
























hehehe


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
hehehe

Care to type my thesis paper?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Care to type my thesis paper?









Ha!


----------



## bluexselvedge

sone questions regarding the DAS Model S Professional (silent). how long has this model been out? what was the version called before?
http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional-silent/

I came across this review, but it didnt list as Model S. is it the same thing? was just wondering if its the same cause the vid was added in 2008 and he updated his review saying that the letterings on the keys started to fade? (thought the kb has laser etched?)


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluexselvedge* 
sone questions regarding the DAS Model S Professional (silent). how long has this model been out? what was the version called before?
http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional-silent/

I came across this review, but it didnt list as Model S. is it the same thing? was just wondering if its the same cause the vid was added in 2008 and he updated his review saying that the letterings on the keys started to fade? (thought the kb has laser etched?)






That's probably a Das Keyboard III. The Das Model S came out in 2009.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluexselvedge* 
sone questions regarding the DAS Model S Professional (silent). how long has this model been out? what was the version called before?
http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional-silent/

I came across this review, but it didnt list as Model S. is it the same thing? was just wondering if its the same cause the vid was added in 2008 and he updated his review saying that the letterings on the keys started to fade? (thought the kb has laser etched?)






The laser etching doesn't wear, but the white color can.


----------



## bluexselvedge

interesting. thanks.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluexselvedge* 
sone questions regarding the DAS Model S Professional (silent). how long has this model been out? what was the version called before?
http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional-silent/

I came across this review, but it didnt list as Model S. is it the same thing? was just wondering if its the same cause the vid was added in 2008 and he updated his review saying that the letterings on the keys started to fade? (thought the kb has laser etched?)






I've got to get the DasKeyboard. Can I get it at some local retailer like Best Buy? Looks great and its a mechanical. I'll use it as a gaming keyboard. It looks really nice.









Edit - I found that I can order it off of http://store.daskeyboard.com/. I really like the look of it. I was wondering though, should I get the Ultimate Model S Silent or the Professional Model S Silent? For those who think getting 2 keyboards is a waste of money, I have my reasons.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
I've got to get the DasKeyboard. Can I get it at some local retailer like Best Buy? Looks great and its a mechanical. I'll use it as a gaming keyboard. It looks really nice.









Don't think* BB carries it. I heard J&R might.
Edit: Typo


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Don't this BB carries it. I heard J&R might.

I saw I could order off of Das Keyboard. They have their own website. Its pricey but to me its worth it. It has Cherry MX Brown Switches.

Edit - This may be risky but I'm going to try to paint the Das blue. I'm going towards a blue theme. I'm just gonna use the cover it with tape and have a slit on where I wanna paint it. Is it a good idea.


----------



## Crazy9000

It is, as long as you use a paint that works well on that type of plastic.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
It is, as long as you use a paint that works well on that type of plastic.

Yeah. They should have gone with Red LED's though. I might now bother though. I don't wanna mess it up and I'm kind of lazy at points and this might be one.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
I've got to get the DasKeyboard. Can I get it at some local retailer like Best Buy? Looks great and its a mechanical. I'll use it as a gaming keyboard. It looks really nice.









Edit - I found that I can order it off of http://store.daskeyboard.com/. I really like the look of it. I was wondering though, should I get the Ultimate Model S Silent or the Professional Model S Silent? For those who think getting 2 keyboards is a waste of money, I have my reasons.

Best Buy doesn't cater to people like us. We are an extremely small minority. So, almost 100% of their keyboards are rubber dome. The only real exception will be the Razer BlackWidow, but it absolutely pales in comparison to the Das Model S.

Regarding whether or not to go with blank keys: that's a decision that only you can make, really.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
I saw I could order off of Das Keyboard. They have their own website. Its pricey but to me its worth it. It has Cherry MX Brown Switches.

Edit - This may be risky but I'm going to try to paint the Das blue. I'm going towards a blue theme. I'm just gonna use the cover it with tape and have a slit on where I wanna paint it. Is it a good idea.

It'll be your keyboard, so you can do whatever you want with it. All that matters is that you are happy with your stuff.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Best Buy doesn't cater to people like us. We are an extremely small minority. So, almost 100% of their keyboards are rubber dome. The only real exception will be the Razer BlackWidow, but it absolutely pales in comparison to the Das Model S.

Regarding whether or not to go with blank keys: that's a decision that only you can make, really.

It'll be your keyboard, so you can do whatever you want with it. All that matters is that you are happy with your stuff.

I'm afraid to mess up with the paint. I want my first build to look awesome. If only Das sold good gaming mice. I'm the kind of person who likes more than 1 thing or everything from the same brand.


----------



## thiru

Blank keys are kinda cool. It's fine for normal typing (except the $%^& keys), but I found that when I type with one hand (other hand on mouse) it's hard to remember where the keys on the right side of the keyboard are.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
I'm afraid to mess up with the paint. I want my first build to look awesome. If only Das sold good gaming mice. I'm the kind of person who likes more than 1 thing or everything from the same brand.

To be honest, if I had the Das Model S, then I most definitely wouldn't paint it.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
To be honest, if I had the Das Model S, then I most definitely wouldn't paint it.

I have the Das Model S, and there's no way I'm painting it


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
To be honest, if I had the Das Model S, then I most definitely wouldn't paint it.

It looks like a masterpiece already but I'm a little upset because of just that small amount of red on Das. I was really hoping to go completely blue inside of my computer and the outside.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Blank keys are kinda cool. It's fine for normal typing (except the $%^& keys), but I found that when I type with one hand (other hand on mouse) it's hard to remember where the keys on the right side of the keyboard are.

Blank keys look cool and stuff but I might forget while I'm playing and type in something like ejsyr lrbrl instead of what level or something (I just need to make this post quick. Got homework). I don't want that happening. Plus, it's not like I'll be showing it off. I will in the pictures but only for my computer. Not the external hardware.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
It looks like a masterpiece already but I'm a little upset because of just that small amount of red on Das. I was really hoping to go completely blue inside of my computer and the outside.

You mean the red "das" on it? lol...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
It looks like a masterpiece already but I'm a little upset because of just that small amount of red on Das. I was really hoping to go completely blue inside of my computer and the outside.

But form follows function.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
Blank keys look cool and stuff but I might forget while I'm playing and type in something like ejsyr lrbrl instead of what level or something (I just need to make this post quick. Got homework). I don't want that happening. Plus, it's not like I'll be showing it off. I will in the pictures but only for my computer. Not the external hardware.

I thought you said that you touch type. I mean, if you do, then there should never be a problem with blank keys. Even though they're blank, the 'f' and 'j' keys still have the little bumps on them.

But, how often do you look at your keyboard when typing?


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
You mean the red "das" on it? lol...

Yeah. Funny. A little thing can distract me.







LOL









Edit - amazing how it doesn't really matter already because I can't see the inside of my case unless I open it. I'm just going to be focused on what's on the screen, not the table.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
Yeah. Funny. A little thing can distract me.







LOL









Edit - amazing how it doesn't really matter already because I can't see the inside of my case unless I open it. I'm just going to be focused on what's on the screen, not the table.

Naturally. Besides, if you get the Das Model S, then the red "das" will be more of an accent. Plus, form will always follow function.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But form follows function.

I thought you said that you touch type. I mean, if you do, then there should never be a problem with blank keys. Even though they're blank, the 'f' and 'j' keys still have the little bumps on them.

But, how often do you look at your keyboard when typing?

It's not when you're touch typing that it becomes a problem, but when you aren't. For example, when I play an RPG, I'll need to single out the I key to open the inventory, and my hands will be nowhere near home row. Typically one is one the mouse and the other is around 1234 to select spells or potions or something, so the reach over to I is just to hit that key once. Especially since my keyboard isn't even bright enough to see the edges of the keys clearly, it is sometimes difficult to hit the correct key right away.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
It's not when you're touch typing that it becomes a problem, but when you aren't. For example, when I play an RPG, I'll need to single out the I key to open the inventory, and my hands will be nowhere near home row. Typically one is one the mouse and the other is around 1234 to select spells or potions or something, so the reach over to I is just to hit that key once. Especially since my keyboard isn't even bright enough to see the edges of the keys clearly, it is sometimes difficult to hit the correct key right away.

Well yeah, but I thought that this went without saying.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Naturally. Besides, if you get the Das Model S, then the red "das" will be more of an accent. Plus, form will always follow function.









Makes it stand out. Now that you make me think of it that way, its not so bad anymore. Thanks TwoCables. +1 Rep. Really made me think about how the keyboard looks may stand for something.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
Makes it stand out. Now that you make me think of it that way, its not so bad anymore. Thanks TwoCables. +1 Rep. Really made me think about how the keyboard looks may stand for something.

It's all good. Besides, stuff usually looks much better in person.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
It's all good. Besides, stuff usually looks much better in person.









Now the only problem remaining is getting which DasKeyboard Model S Silent Keyboard...

-DasKeyboard Ultimate Model S Silent (No Letters)
-DasKeyboard Professional Model S Silent (Letters)

The no letters and letters don't make much of a difference unless I all of a sudden forget where the keys are or accidentally move my hand and lose track of where my fingers should be but that should be an easy mistake to fix. The DasKeyboard Ultimate Model S Silent but I think the no letters on the keys might mess me up a little but looks nicer. Which one should I go with?

Edit - I also like it because it has Ultimate in it. It makes it sound so much better than Professional because Ultimate is an all-in-one word. Everything.


----------



## thisispatrick

In the end the choice it yours. If you have the keyboard mapped out in your head and no longer need to look at it, then get the one with no letters. If you still need to look at the keyboard for certain symbols and such, then get the one with letter.

If you share your computer with a family member/friend who needs/doesn't need letters, think about that too.

Either or, I'm sure you'll like it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
Now the only problem remaining is getting which DasKeyboard Model S Silent Keyboard...

-DasKeyboard Ultimate Model S Silent (No Letters)
-DasKeyboard Professional Model S Silent (Letters)

The no letters and letters don't make much of a difference unless I all of a sudden forget where the keys are or accidentally move my hand and lose track of where my fingers should be but that should be an easy mistake to fix. The DasKeyboard Ultimate Model S Silent but I think the no letters on the keys might mess me up a little but looks nicer. Which one should I go with?

Edit - I also like it because it has Ultimate in it. It makes it sound so much better than Professional because Ultimate is an all-in-one word. Everything.

This is really a decision that only you can make. I mean, there are still bumps on the 'f' and 'j' keys, so as long as you don't rely on actually looking at the keyboard to find the Home Row, then the only other issues would come from the times where you need to look at the keyboard to see where certain keys are.

So, this decision requires some careful consideration. I guess one thing you can do is just pay attention to your normal keyboard use and try to notice if/when you look at the keyboard in order to find a key. If you do sometimes need to look at the keyboard, then the Ultimate would probably have the potential of throwing you off in those situations. But even then it's still up to you to decide if it would or not (that is, provided you find out that you really do have to look at the keyboard from time to time).

In other words: there's really no way anyone can truly answer this for you.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
In the end the choice it yours. If you have the keyboard mapped out in your head and no longer need to look at it, then get the one with no letters. If you still need to look at the keyboard for certain symbols and such, then get the one with letter.

If you share your computer with a family member/friend who needs/doesn't need letters, think about that too.

Either or, I'm sure you'll like it.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
This is really a decision that only you can make. I mean, there are still bumps on the 'f' and 'j' keys, so as long as you don't rely on actually looking at the keyboard to find the Home Row, then the only other issues would come from the times where you need to look at the keyboard to see where certain keys are.

So, this decision requires some careful consideration. I guess one thing you can do is just pay attention to your normal keyboard use and try to notice if/when you look at the keyboard in order to find a key. If you do sometimes need to look at the keyboard, then the Ultimate would probably have the potential of throwing you off in those situations. But even then it's still up to you to decide if it would or not (that is, provided you find out that you really do have to look at the keyboard from time to time).

In other words: there's really no way anyone can truly answer this for you.

I think I'm going to get the Professional one because I'm not familiar with the num pad or the edit block. The labelings should be useful. I also have a post about getting a good mouse and which OS to get.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
I think I'm going to get the Professional one because I'm not familiar with the num pad or the edit block. The labelings should be useful. I also have a post about getting a good mouse and which OS to get.

I ended up getting the Professional myself for two reasons:

-Easier to sell if I ever want to (but now I doubt I will)
-I'm familiar with everything but the symbols ([email protected]#$%^&*), so I need the printing just for that.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
Blank keys look cool and stuff but I might forget while I'm playing and type in something like ejsyr lrbrl instead of what level or something (I just need to make this post quick. Got homework). I don't want that happening. Plus, it's not like I'll be showing it off. I will in the pictures but only for my computer. Not the external hardware.

A good compromise is to ordered the lettered Das. Within a month, you'll have a blank one!


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
A good compromise is to ordered the lettered Das. Within a month, you'll have a blank one!

Ya'll must have some nasty oils on your fingers or something. I type a lot on my Das and its yet to show any signs of wear. I'm not a clean freak either by any means.


----------



## thisispatrick

It took me roughly 5 months for the wasd cluster area to start wearing. Meh, still love this board.


----------



## ljason8eg

I guess its just different for everyone. Some people complain about the paint coming off the G15 keys rather fast. I used mine for nearly 3 years with no visible wear to the paint. Gotta be a body chemistry thing.


----------



## ch_123

Half a year? One year? Three years? I have a keyboard older than I am that has the markings perfectly intact. When you start debating about bodily oils, you know you've put your money on the wrong horse.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

I don't think it will make a difference if I get the Ultimate or Professional now.


----------



## bluexselvedge

im using a 12 year old dell keyboard with zero wears, lol. have never cleaned it either


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Hello. I am posting this from my new Filco Blue Tenkeyless









First message I have typed on this keyboard







!!

This is way easier not to bottom out on compared to my Brown. It feels heaver definitely. I realllllllly like the click


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*


Hello. I am posting this from my new Filco Blue Tenkeyless









First message I have typed on this keyboard







!!

This is way easier not to bottom out on compared to my Brown. It feels heaver definitely. I realllllllly like the click










the deciding difficulty factor? for not bottoming out a mechanical key switch has two schools of thought. some people believe a higher force switch is easier and some believe it's the sharpness of the tactile point.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Even when I do bottom out, it seems less hard than the Brown. Weeeeeeeeeee. Just had a great gaming session with the Blues too. For DotA they are no problem at all, in fact kind of awesome!









Btw, Envy Type R is kicking ass for me on the coding front. I didn't like it at first but it's so clean and most importantly to me, incredibly scalable. I like to decrease and enlarge frequently. that's what she said

The click really helps with bottoming out because it tells you when to come back up. I like that.


----------



## gonX

Try not to multi post. Please


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


Try not to multi post. Please










Sry! Sometimes i get excited


----------



## runeazn

rofl,


----------



## ron65774

Has anyone actually bought the Optimus Maximus?
It seems so awesome!
$2400






















http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ron65774* 
Has anyone actually bought the Optimus Maximus?
It seems so awesome!
$2400






















http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/

Not worth it. It uses Cherry MY/ML (I forgot which one) switches which are considerably close to laptop keys from what I heard.


----------



## ron65774

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Not worth it. It uses Cherry MY/ML (I forgot which one) switches which are considerably close to laptop keys from what I heard.

Yes, but the idea of watching 100+ movies on a keyboard is awesome







(is that possible?)


----------



## T3h_Ch33z_Muncha

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ron65774* 
Yes, but the idea of watching 100+ movies on a keyboard is awesome







(is that possible?)

if you think watching movies at the enormous resolution of 48x48 is a good idea, go for it


----------



## ron65774

Quote:


Originally Posted by *T3h_Ch33z_Muncha* 
if you think watching movies at the enormous resolution of 48x48 is a good idea, go for it









Well... you could fit a screenshot of my mouse pointer in it


----------



## candy_van

I keep going back and fourth between my keyboards here in a fleeting moment of indecisiveness:

On one hand I love typing on the Deck (MX clear), but find it to be a bit too stiff for gaming; I feel sluggish on it.
On the other I find the Das (MX brown) is a bit too soft when typing (tend to bottom out), but is much easier for me to use while gaming.

Given the choice between the two I suppose I'd have to go with gaming...
Is there anything else which would be a happy medium; MX black switches maybe?

Side note:

I'm an unbelievably picky/ADD/anal person when it comes to certain things; this could get expensive for me


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candy_van* 
I keep going back and fourth between my keyboards here in a fleeting moment of indecisiveness:

On one hand I love typing on the Deck (MX clear), but find it to be a bit too stiff for gaming; I feel sluggish on it.
On the other I find the Das (MX brown) is a bit too soft when typing (tend to bottom out), but is much easier for me to use while gaming.

Given the choice between the two I suppose I'd have to go with gaming...
Is there anything else which would be a happy medium; MX black switches maybe?

Side note:

I'm an unbelievably picky/ADD/anal person when it comes to certain things; this could get expensive for me









Hmm. It sounds to me like you'll just need to swap back and forth.


----------



## Crazy9000

You could sell them both and get a topre







.


----------



## candy_van

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Hmm. It sounds to me like you'll just need to swap back and forth.









I'd really rather not do that.
Switching back and fourth between the Deck and the Das for each function not only seems tedious, but a touch extravagant









Again if I have to chose between the two I'll take comfort while gaming; even if I do tend to spend more time on OCN









Would MX blacks be something I should look into?
I don't mind bottoming out the keys really (which I read you do with them), but if the blacks are a bit more resistant than the browns I think I might be in business...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
You could sell them both and get a topre







.

How would those stack up next to what I have / am considering?


----------



## TwoCables

It's my guess that the majority of mechanical keyboard enthusiasts that are also gamers prefer to have a dedicated gaming keyboard. If you've ever seen anyone in this thread use the term "daily driver", then that's somebody who uses more than one keyboard and switches them around depending on their needs or desires.

Do you like the tactility of the Cherry MX Clears?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
It's my guess that the majority of mechanical keyboard enthusiasts that are also gamers prefer to have a dedicated gaming keyboard. If you've ever seen anyone in this thread use the term "daily driver", then that's somebody who uses more than one keyboard and switches them around depending on their needs or desires.

Do you like the tactility of the Cherry MX Clears?

I used to switch between my Deck and Das, but it was pretty annoying. I had figured out how to switch them pretty quickly so the cables never tangled though, so it wasn't terrible.

Anyways I now use only the Topre keyboard. I'm letting my mom use my Deck at the moment, and the Das is just plugged into my laptop every once in awhile. Having two keyboards for your main PC is not an ideal situation, and something you should only do if you need to (I couldn't game on the blues, but they were so great to type with).

Now that I have shelled out the big bucks for the Realforce, it excels in both categories, and there is no need to switch out my keyboard anymore. I would recommend anyone who is considering buying another keyboard for either typing or gaming, to just sell their current one and get a realforce, since it will be a similar price to owning two "normal" keyboards.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candy_van* 
I keep going back and fourth between my keyboards here in a fleeting moment of indecisiveness:

On one hand I love typing on the Deck (MX clear), but find it to be a bit too stiff for gaming; I feel sluggish on it.
On the other I find the Das (MX brown) is a bit too soft when typing (tend to bottom out), but is much easier for me to use while gaming.

Given the choice between the two I suppose I'd have to go with gaming...
Is there anything else which would be a happy medium; MX black switches maybe?

Side note:

I'm an unbelievably picky/ADD/anal person when it comes to certain things; this could get expensive for me









LOL, you know it will









I'm actually debating on swapping out the switches in my Deck for MX Reds. They really are nice to game on. Overall cost? About $350.


----------



## Maytan

I was considering keeping two boards, but I reached the same problem as candy van. Switching between keyboards isn't practical for me, especially since I like to keep my cables very tidy. Choosing the switch you like the most and sticking to it is simply the best solution. (unless you've got the space to keep a myriad of keyboards)

Though personally, I'd take the switch more comfortable for typing. I've yet to try a switch I'd find problematic in gaming. (though I haven't tried Blues yet)


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
LOL, you know it will









I'm actually debating on swapping out the switches in my Deck for MX Reds. They really are nice to game on. Overall cost? About $350.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just switch out the springs? Or would replacing those be a lot more difficult then re-soldering all the switches?


----------



## candy_van

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
It's my guess that the majority of mechanical keyboard enthusiasts that are also gamers prefer to have a dedicated gaming keyboard. If you've ever seen anyone in this thread use the term "daily driver", then that's somebody who uses more than one keyboard and switches them around depending on their needs or desires.

Do you like the tactility of the Cherry MX Clears?

Yea, I do but they're just a bit too firm for my tastes I think.
When I'm typing away it's not so bad, but for gaming it just doesn't feel right.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I used to switch between my Deck and Das, but it was pretty annoying. I had figured out how to switch them pretty quickly so the cables never tangled though, so it wasn't terrible.

Anyways I now use only the Topre keyboard. I'm letting my mom use my Deck at the moment, and the Das is just plugged into my laptop every once in awhile. Having two keyboards for your main PC is not an ideal situation, and something you should only do if you need to (I couldn't game on the blues, but they were so great to type with).

Now that I have shelled out the big bucks for the Realforce, it excels in both categories, and there is no need to switch out my keyboard anymore. I would recommend anyone who is considering buying another keyboard for either typing or gaming, to just sell their current one and get a realforce, since it will be a similar price to owning two "normal" keyboards.

Wait so when it says "3 levels of pressure sensitivity" (Elite Keyboards) what does that entail exactly?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
LOL, you know it will









I'm actually debating on swapping out the switches in my Deck for MX Reds. They really are nice to game on. Overall cost? About $350.

Whoah nelly...that's some serious scrath there dude








How would Reds stack up in all this? I really didn't see too much on them IIRC.

...also now I'm deluged with MX reds, blacks and Topre, and I'm not really sure about any of them (asplode)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candy_van* 
Yea, I do but they're just a bit too firm for my tastes I think.
When I'm typing away it's not so bad, but for gaming it just doesn't feel right.

I'm just concerned that since most mechanical keyboard enthusiasts feel that the Cherry MX Blacks are the worst mechanical switch for typing, you may end up not liking them either (except when gaming).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candy_van* 
Wait so when it says "3 levels of pressure sensitivity" (Elite Keyboards) what does that entail exactly?

_"35, 45, and 55gram sensitivity, 4mm travel Topre Electrostatic Capacitive Key Switches_"










What it really means is that the keys typically used by your smaller fingers get the lighter springs while the heavier springs are for your bigger fingers.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
LOL, you know it will









I'm actually debating on swapping out the switches in my Deck for MX Reds. They really are nice to game on. Overall cost? About $350.

Why that much? Couldn't you just get a G80-3600/3464 and harvest the switches out of it?


----------



## candy_van

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I'm just concerned that since most mechanical keyboard enthusiasts feel that the Cherry MX Blacks are the worst mechanical switch for typing, you may end up not liking them either (except when gaming).

_"35, 45, and 55gram sensitivity, 4mm travel Topre Electrostatic Capacitive Key Switches_"










What it really means is that the keys typically used by your smaller fingers get the lighter springs while the heavier springs are for your bigger fingers.

Well unless the blacks require even less force than the browns to actuate I'm not sure how I could like them less.
My problem with the browns thus far seems to be bottoming out too frequently while I type.

Another thing I think which I think might be contributing to my dislike of the Deck while I'm gaming is the keys themselves; they're a bit narrower than those on the Das or my previous board (could be over thinking things now I suppose).

As for Topres:
Oh ok I see certain keys are different with resistence based on how you should be typing / gaming (no?).


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candy_van* 
Well unless the blacks require even less force than the browns to actuate I'm not sure how I could like them less.
My problem with the browns thus far seems to be bottoming out too frequently while I type.

Another thing I think which I think might be contributing to my dislike of the Deck while I'm gaming is the keys themselves; they're a bit narrower than those on the Das or my previous board (could be over thinking things now I suppose).

As for Topres:
Oh ok I see certain keys are different with resistence based on how you should be typing / gaming (no?).

The keys are weighted with touch typing in mind. I thought they would be weird gaming, so I got the 55g board, where all the keys take 55g of force.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candy_van* 
Well unless the blacks require even less force than the browns to actuate I'm not sure how I could like them less.
My problem with the browns thus far seems to be bottoming out too frequently while I type.

The Cherry MX Blacks are stiff and linear. They are probably a hair stiffer than the Clears (but I'm cheating: I'm using the OP of this thread to find out).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candy_van* 
Another thing I think which I think might be contributing to my dislike of the Deck while I'm gaming is the keys themselves; they're a bit narrower than those on the Das or my previous board (could be over thinking things now I suppose).

Narrower? I didn't know that!

Could it also be that it's due to the Deck being flat while the Das is sculpted?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candy_van* 
As for the Topres, OK different grades of resistence then; how exactly do you adjust them? (noob question)









They're not adjustable (at least they're not supposed to be adjustable - it would require a ton of work).


----------



## candy_van

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


The Cherry MX Blacks are stiff and linear. They are probably a hair stiffer than the Clears (but I'm cheating: I'm using the OP of this thread to find out).

Narrower? I didn't know that!

Could it also be that it's due to the Deck being flat while the Das is sculpted?

They're not adjustable (at least they're not supposed to be adjustable - it would require a ton of work).


Yep the keys are broader on the Das (along with my old board).
Wait so blacks are even stiffer than clears? Not sure how well that would work out then if I'm complaining how stiff clears are while I'm gaming









Also you ninja'd on the Topres...and I did too, but you caught me


----------



## Crazy9000

I guess I need to write a review of my realforce sometime. Most of the other people who own one seem to be too busy sitting back listening to a vinal record on their $50k speaker system, sipping a glass of brandy trying to detect the hints of oak, to go out and play games on it.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I guess I need to write a review of my realforce sometime. Most of the other people who own one seem to be too busy sitting back listening to a vinal record on their $50k speaker system, sipping a glass of brandy trying to detect the hints of oak, to go out and play games on it.


It's because unlike a Deck, Topre boards are not X-TREME!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *candy_van*


Yep the keys are broader on the Das (along with my old board).
Wait so blacks are even stiffer than clears? Not sure how well that would work out then if I'm complaining how stiff clears are while I'm gaming









Also you ninja'd on the Topres...and I did too, but you caught me










Hmm, it sounds like you need to spend some time studying the first 10 posts of this OP (or at least the ones that are useful to you).

But stay alert!


----------



## candy_van

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Hmm, it sounds like you need to spend some time studying the first 10 posts of this OP (or at least the ones that are useful to you).

But stay alert!










Yea, looks like I've forgotten/overlooked a few things over the past week with everything I've been taking in








Going to have to just accept the fact that testing and cutting losses is part of all this; will give the Deck another shot for gaming, and if I can't get myself to like it I'll stick with the Das for now then...


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


They're not adjustable (at least they're not supposed to be adjustable - it would require a ton of work).


It has been done. I'm just not sure how much effort was involved.


----------



## Marin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I guess I need to write a review of my realforce sometime. Most of the other people who own one seem to be too busy sitting back listening to a vinal record on their $50k speaker system, sipping a glass of brandy trying to detect the hints of oak, to go out and play games on it.

I've gamed on my HHKB and nobody's ever asked me.









Different actuation force but whatever.


----------



## Crazy9000

What is your opinion of the HHKB for gaming, compared to your other keyboard?


----------



## Phatal

I need a nice typing/looking mechanical keyboard for no more than $150. What do you guys think are good choices.


----------



## thisispatrick

Update: Razer is in the process of making a mouse bungee.
Sauce

Edit: Seems like the news section already picked this up when I was still asleep.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

DasKeyboard Professional Model S Silent. $139.99 on the DasKeyboard Online Store. Its a really nice keyboard. Cherry MX Brown switches for the Silent models. You can get a blank keys version which is the ultimate silent from Das.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


DasKeyboard Professional Model S Silent. $139.99 on the DasKeyboard Online Store. Its a really nice keyboard. Cherry MX Brown switches for the Silent models. You can get a blank keys version which is the ultimate silent from Das.


Actually, it's sorted more like this:

http://www.daskeyboard.com/products/

The Ultimate comes in both the non Silent and the Silent (Cherry MX Blues or Cherry MX Browns).


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

I know. I just suggested the silent because it has cherry mx browns.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer*


I know. I just suggested the silent because it has cherry mx browns.


Oh. I didn't know he was looking for the Browns.







Actually, he doesn't know what he's looking for yet.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Wouldn't it be cheaper to just switch out the springs? Or would replacing those be a lot more difficult then re-soldering all the switches?


Well it really depends on how fast you work with each method, but for me the soldering is faster. I just lift the board up off the table by resting the edges of the PCB on some stacks of books or whatever, and then use the iron to press down on the contact points and the switches pop right out. Haven't thought of a fast way to put them back in though :/

Wait...the Deck has LEDs...







. Maybe a spring swap would be faster.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *candy_van*


Whoah nelly...that's some serious scrath there dude








How would Reds stack up in all this? I really didn't see too much on them IIRC.


Yeah, you can only get them from one place if you're in the US, which is here. Cherry seems to think that Americans don't like the switch for whatever reason.

They're basically MX Black bodies with MX Blue springs inside.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Why that much? Couldn't you just get a G80-3600/3464 and harvest the switches out of it?


That's exactly what I was thinking of (but it's a 34*9*4). I paid $180 for the 3494, and $170 for the deck. That comes out to $350.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Update: Razer is in the process of making a mouse bungee.
Sauce

Edit: Seems like the news section already picked this up when I was still asleep.


http://www.mousebungee.com/

Quote:



The Mouse Bungee Company IP has been purchased by a major player in the gaming accessories world.


now it redirects to http://www2.razerzone.com/bungee/










you can buy them for $5 on eBay. Razer will charge more. Genkaz bought one and thanked me he really likes it.


----------



## thisispatrick

Thanks for the info Christine, but the wire doesn't really affect me. *shrugs* ^^


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Thanks for the info Christine, but the wire doesn't really affect me. *shrugs* ^^


that's what I thought. I can't live without it now


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


http://www.mousebungee.com/

now it redirects to http://www2.razerzone.com/bungee/

you can buy them for $5 on eBay. Razer will charge more. Genkaz bought one and thanked me he really likes it.


I have one too, and I also have an Evo-G anchor:










IMO either one works as well as the other.


----------



## lmnop

the Razer Armadillo is a cord weight like the Evo-G that cost $20 how much do you think they will charge for the Bungee my guess is not $9.95 lol

don't be silly if your remotely interested buy it now while you can.


----------



## thisispatrick

Just a quick question since we're already discussing mice. Do people prefer heavy or light mice or does it all just boil down to user preference? I'm using a G500 with 27G added weight. Going down to 10.2 for further testing.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Do people prefer heavy or light mice or does it all just boil down to user preference?


Light mice. I can't even use cordless mice because of the battery weight.
Your question is confusing btw.


----------



## thisispatrick

Sorry about that. Let me reword it better.
When gaming do you guys prefer light or heavy mice?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Just a quick question since we're already discussing mice. Do people prefer heavy or light mice or does it all just boil down to user preference? I'm using a G500 with 27G added weight. Going down to 10.2 for further testing.


It depends on you. Light mice allow for twitchier movements, while heavy mice make movements smoother.

Personally, I don't like either extreme. Too light and I lose some accuracy, too heavy and I can't aim fast enough.


----------



## thisispatrick

Ok I'm asking because I think I'm a tad weird. I have my mouse as heavy as possible and set the DPI to ~2k+


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Ok I'm asking because I think I'm a tad weird. I have my mouse as heavy as possible and set the DPI to ~2k+


I mostly use light mice since they aren't as fatiguing. Light mice and ~800 DPI.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *candy_van*


Well unless the blacks require even less force than the browns to actuate I'm not sure how I could like them less.
My problem with the browns thus far seems to be bottoming out too frequently while I type.

Another thing I think which I think might be contributing to my dislike of the Deck while I'm gaming is the keys themselves; they're a bit narrower than those on the Das or my previous board (could be over thinking things now I suppose).

As for Topres:
Oh ok I see certain keys are different with resistence based on how you should be typing / gaming (no?).


Should have got a Filco Blue Cherry keyboard. Not too stiff. Not too light.

And the Deck keys are NOT smaller than normal - optical illusion. We get posts like this all the time at Geekhack but if you actually measure the keycap surface they are identical. Key manufacturers aren't stupid.

From the Geekhack Key Reference Wiki









P.S. And how is that USB working our for ya?


----------



## lmnop

I asked Manyak to add a linklist to the Mechanical Keyboard Guide. ie Key Reference, NKRO, IBM, Topre, All About Keys, etc. that way I don't have to look for a bookmark or see you plug your wiki anymore. you just want more reps than me


----------



## ripster

Don't forget the USB versus PS/2 wiki. My fav.


----------



## lmnop

he will add them all.


----------



## ripster

If he adds the "All About Keys" section I'd like my pics removed from the OCN Mechanical Keyboard guide. Or at least just have the pics linked to with attribution instead of hosted on OCN servers.

Legal concerns.


----------



## ch_123

Just replace the guide with my IBM Wiki. Problem solved.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
http://www.mousebungee.com/

now it redirects to http://www2.razerzone.com/bungee/

*snip*

you can buy them for $5 on eBay. Razer will charge more. Genkaz bought one and thanked me he really likes it.

I bought one too, but I haven't been able to use it yet. I've had poison ivy for two weeks now. Got a blister on my palm that's bigger than a golf ball. I can provide pics if you don't believe me.









I'm disappointed in Razer buying them though. I would never want a Razer branded item, I avoid them like the plague. :/


----------



## vspec

Just picked up this beauty about 10 min ago at a thrift store, thats right thrift store for $5.

It's a 98-99 model Dell AT101 with original ALPS Black switches. Imagine my boner when I saw this just sitting there.










Edit: It's also very tactile and very clicky, seriously it's like sex for my fingers.


----------



## ripster

I am extremely grateful you did not include your boner along with your feet in the picture.


----------



## loop0001

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
I am extremely grateful you did not include your boner along with your feet in the picture.

this


----------



## BigT

LOL, you guys crack me up! that is a nice find. your soo lucky. i will have to check out the thrift stores around here to see what i can find.


----------



## Marin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
What is your opinion of the HHKB for gaming, compared to your other keyboard?

- The layout is a bit odd at first but it works fine for games. Control key is actually placed better for games and stuff. Downside though is the modifier keys which makes it harder to access some stuff in games as quickly (unless you just remap the keys).

- For games I actually prefer blues over topres. I may be in the minority for this but it's a lot more comfortable for me to use blues and I don't run into issues with double tapping.

- The spacebar on the HHKB isn't the best and I prefer the Filco over this.


----------



## ch_123

What's wrong with the spacebar? My one works fine.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

so the hhpro is only for professional programmers who do a lot of typing?

Honesty the browns are getting on my nerves atm.


----------



## Phatal

Whats the best keyboard I can buy with a budget of $150?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phatal* 
Whats the best keyboard I can buy with a budget of $150?

for gaming? typing? both?


----------



## Phatal

For both some gaming but mostly typing.


----------



## lmnop

Das Model S Professional or Ultimate Silent.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Any DasKeyboard will make you happy for life...that's what's gonna happen with me this Thanksgiving.


----------



## ripster

Happy for life if you are a fairly neat person.

Sorry for the gross picture but you'll find few people post pics of their real setup. At least he cleaned the keytops first.








not my pic, came from the Metadot (Das) "Post Your Pics" Blog


----------



## Phatal

Are the das keyboards better than FILCO?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Happy for life if you are a fairly neat person.

Sorry for the gross picture but you'll find few people post pics of their real setup. At least he cleaned the keytops first.








not my pic, came from the Metadot (Das) "Post Your Pics" Blog

wow! do you think Novus can save it? lol









Thanksgiving is next week for Canadians. i'll be in the kitchen from 6am to 6pm!


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phatal* 
Are the das keyboards better than FILCO?

neither. Metadot has a 30 day return policy. elitekeyboards doesn't.


----------



## Phatal

Which would u go for than?


----------



## lmnop

like I said neither, it depends what your looking for.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phatal* 
Which would u go for than?

With keyboards, there's a point where it's personal taste and there is no definitive "better" keyboard. Das vs Filco would be one of these instances.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Thanksgiving is next week for Canadians. i'll be in the kitchen from 6am to 6pm!

Brine overnight in Kosher Salt. And don't forget that gravy is the key. I'd come over but I'm a Ugly American.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Brine overnight in Kosher Salt. And don't forget that gravy is the key. I'd come over but I'm a Ugly American.









lol!

water, salt, cracked pepper, fennel, garlic, carrots, onion, celery. let it sit over night. before I cook it I coat the turkey in mayonnaise.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
lol!

water, salt, cracked pepper, fennel, garlic, carrots, onion, celery. let it sit over night. before I cook it I *coat the turkey in mayonnaise.*

...why? Why would you ruin such a delectable bird?


----------



## lmnop

mayonnaise is fatty it adds flavor and moisture. it's a old trick.

you shouldn't baste a turkey because every time you open the oven you lose heat which means you have to cook the turkey longer and it could become drier


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
mayonnaise is fatty it adds flavor and moisture. it's a old trick.

you shouldn't baste a turkey because every time you open the oven you lose heat which means you have to cook the turkey longer and it could become drier









Oh, wow. That's actually quite interesting.


----------



## lmnop

you don't want a Griswold Turkey do you?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
you don't want a Griswold Turkey do you?









Of course not! Carry on with the mayo.


----------



## lmnop

homemade gravy, creamy whipped potatoes with garlic and parmesan, stuffing with three kinds of bread, antipasti, dessert.

I am a battle ready ninja in the kitchen like mommy!


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
homemade gravy, creamy whipped potatoes with garlic and parmesan, stuffing with three kinds of bread, antipasti, dessert.

I am a battle ready ninja in the kitchen like mommy!

Now you're making me jealous. I've still got two months to go before I get any tasty food.


----------



## lmnop

I think I like turkey sandwiches more than the turkey dinner.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I think I like turkey sandwiches more than the turkey dinner.

Amen. My Grandmother's home-made turkey subs are delicious.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I think I like turkey sandwiches more than the turkey dinner.

turkey soup for me. mmmmm... sooooooo goood. turkey soup + rice in the soup + tibetan hot sauce = best


----------



## T3h_Ch33z_Muncha

nom nom nom turkey cherries.

sorry i gotta relate this to keyboards somehow :/


----------



## TwoCables

Sigh... I'm the reason why Phatal came here to ask for help.

Phatal: what is the primary use of your keyboard?


----------



## Ikrin

I didn't know we had a sub-thread for Thanksgiving preparation in the Mechanical Keyboard Guide. Do you mash your potatoes with a Model M?


----------



## ripster

No but the drainage holes work pretty well.









Has anyone ever tried Coca Cola marinaded Turkey?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phatal* 
Are the das keyboards better than FILCO?

They come out of the same factory, both are available in blue or brown Cherry switches, both have similar build quality. Both have issues with lettering wearing off. The Das has a USB hub, but it needs two cables, and might have some electronic problems. The Das is cheaper, and they have a more liberal return policy. The Filco is available in tenkeyless models, and arguably looks better.

Pick your poison really.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
They come out of the same factory, both are available in blue or brown Cherry switches, both have similar build quality. Both have issues with lettering wearing off. The Das has a USB hub, but it needs two cables, and might have some electronic problems. The Das is cheaper, and they have a more liberal return policy. The Filco is available in tenkeyless models, and arguably looks better.

Pick your poison really.

Actually, it doesn't need me at all. Besides, I'm busy.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
No but the drainage holes work pretty well.









Has anyone ever tried Coca Cola marinaded Turkey?

Use the 122-key to serve gravy.


----------



## lmnop

don't be dogging gravy there will be serious consequences


----------



## lmnop

http://www.iqmore.idv.tw/pcadv-75-iqmore

my kind of magazine! 9 pages of NKRO fun lol


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Thats it i'm gona go get some KFC and gravy.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
They come out of the same factory, both are available in blue or brown Cherry switches, both have similar build quality. Both have issues with lettering wearing off. The Das has a USB hub, but it needs two cables, and might have some electronic problems. The Das is cheaper, and they have a more liberal return policy. The Filco is available in tenkeyless models, and arguably looks better.

Pick your poison really.

Letters wearing off? My filco never had such problem


----------



## lmnop

I wonder if that Filco Majestouch will still be white in 10 years.


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Concerning only the quality, I would order them this way:

Deck
Das
Filco
XArmor
However, based on what I've seen in this thread, the Deck is almost in a class by itself when it comes to the build quality.

Why do you place the Das before the Filco? You cannot disassemble the Das without damaging the case and the build of the Filco case is much robust.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mondalaci* 
Why do you place the Das before the Filco? You cannot disassemble the Das without damaging the case and the build of the Filco case is much robust.


Quote:

This is also where LÃ¡szlÃ³ and I disagree: he says that breaking the clips is inevitable, I managed to open my keyboard without breaking any.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
No but the drainage holes work pretty well.









Has anyone ever tried Coca Cola marinaded Turkey?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I wonder if that Filco Majestouch will still be white in 10 years.

Not if he tries that.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mondalaci* 
Why do you place the Das before the Filco? You cannot disassemble the Das without damaging the case and the build of the Filco case is much robust.

If I believed everything in this thread then everyone would own a Deck through the sheer awesomeness of lmnop. Plus you can't take people seriously when they don't actually own the keyboard.

I'd get a Deck 82 if they had decent switches. I do own these though.

(ordered by current faves)
Filco Blue Cherry Tenkeyless - IBM Model M Space SavING Keyboard (mini) - Modded Realforce 87U - Filco Brown Cherry Tenkeyless - Unicomp Space SavER with black key/red led mod - IBM Model M 1391401 - IBM Model F AT - Model M 1397000 - IBM Model M13 - IBM M4 - Chicony 5181 (Montereys) - Anything with ALPS (Focus 2001,SGI Granite,Apple AEKII, Apple M0110, ALPS MCL-101,NeXT) - SmarTrex Rubber Dome - OTHER STUFF: Kinesis Keypad - the ALPSulator - CH DT225 Trackball - CST LaserTrac Trackball - Evoluent mouse - Balls Of Steel - IBM Selectric, The Ultimate Gaming Device: Cherry Modded Nostromo N52


----------



## ripster

Hey, look what Kim Won-Ki, known to the world as "Cool", now playing under the nickname Fruit Dealer. is using in the $87,619 Starcraft 2 GSL Finals.

A Filco.









The apple I think is a Fuji. Could be a Gala. Switches I know are Cherry Brown. The winner in two OCN polls.


----------



## lmnop

no racing suit?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

NICE.

I saw him play. very cool
One of the first if not the first to do mass ravens.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

I have Cherry Browns too. Yay I'm cool


----------



## T3h_Ch33z_Muncha

that's not a Gala


----------



## ripster

Braeburn?


----------



## j0n3z3y

Sorry to interupt the apples/starcraft discussion, but.... I'm giving serious consideration to the Deck model 82 for a near future purchase. I was wondering however, if w/ a usb-ps/2 adapter...it supported full NKRO, or remained 6KRO? In other words, is it worth it to use an adapter or not?


----------



## Crazy9000

The 82 key Decks are USB only and don't work with adapters.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *j0n3z3y* 
Sorry to interupt the apples/starcraft discussion, but.... I'm giving serious consideration to the Deck model 82 for a near future purchase. I was wondering however, if w/ a usb-ps/2 adapter...it supported full NKRO, or remained 6KRO? In other words, is it worth it to use an adapter or not?

Will you have more than one hand on the keyboard when playing your favorite games?


----------



## j0n3z3y

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
The 82 key Decks are USB only and don't work with adapters.

Thanks.







Lame....but ok. I can live with 6KRO

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Will you have more than one hand on the keyboard when playing your favorite games?

On occasion, when piloting flight sims. Yes, definitely.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Having tried Cherry Brown/Blue in Filco form, I'm curious to see what this Topre business is all about.... Think I'm going to get this,










http://elitekeyboards.com/products.p...&pid=rf_se0500

Thoughts?


----------



## Crazy9000

I like mine, not sure what else I can say







. I think it's a good idea.


----------



## ripster

It's the slightly older model of the 87U. Legends are definitely more readable but it has less features (embedded numpad, 30g pinkies, embedded caps/scroll/numlock leds, one less Windows key, no red key included or key puller).

Feel the RealForce 87U - alas, a limited edition model









Quote:



Originally Posted by *j0n3z3y*


Thanks.







Lame....but ok. I can live with 6KRO On occasion, when piloting flight sims. Yes, definitely.


They still make flight sims where you pilot using the keyboard? I haven't done that since GTA3 days and even then it was easier to plug in a gamepad.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *j0n3z3y*


Thanks.







Lame....but ok. I can live with 6KRO

On occasion, when piloting flight sims. Yes, definitely.


SFF keyboards are lucky to have a standard matrix. when you think about it majority 104/105 keyboards can't even do 6+4 rollover.

if you need to register that many key presses at once the game probably needs to be played on a gamepad.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


It's the slightly older model of the 87U. Legends are definitely more readable but it has less features (embedded numpad, 30g pinkies, embedded caps/scroll/numlock leds, one less Windows key, no red key included or key puller).

Feel the RealForce 87U - alas, a limited edition model









They still make flight sims where you pilot using the keyboard? I haven't done that since GTA3 days and even then it was easier to plug in a gamepad.


LOL. Are the Darth Vader lego figures part of it or did u just do it for fun? Stupid Question.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mondalaci*


Why do you place the Das before the Filco? You cannot disassemble the Das without damaging the case and the build of the Filco case is much robust.


Because lmnop does. But others do too, so therefore I do now as well. However, I honestly assume that they're very close and could actually be swapped in that list without changing the dynamics of that list very much at all.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Hey, look what Kim Won-Ki, known to the world as "Cool", now playing under the nickname Fruit Dealer. is using in the $87,619 Starcraft 2 GSL Finals.

A Filco.









The apple I think is a Fuji. Could be a Gala. Switches I know are Cherry Brown. The winner in two OCN polls.


See? He chose to use the Tactile Touch instead of the Tactile Click!


----------



## Crazy9000

I think that might be a honeycrisp.


----------



## lmnop

poor Costar lol


----------



## ripster

Same list but in reverse order (the Model M rivets keep popping off).


----------



## lmnop

IBM
Deck
Unicomp
Topre
Northgate
Ducky
XArmor
Das
Filco

I knew ch_123 love for the Model F would find it's foot up my ass.


----------



## ripster

So... how many of these keyboards do you actually own again?

I'm pretty confident about the Filco, Das, Topre, Unicomp and IBMs since I own them all and have done extensive modding on each. And I have a lot of ALPS and let's just say...... well I have a lot of ALPS keyboards.

The Decks I hear are pretty good but only if they had better switches...

Ducky above Xarmor/Das/Filco?


----------



## lmnop

I didn't want to put mechanical key switch or layout into consideration. only quality of construction. ie stabilizer, plastics, thickness of plastic, feet, weight, thickness of steel, cable, known issues, printing.

I put Ducky ahead because they use Cherry stabilizers, detachable USB cable and PBT Keycaps are available.

you can put them in any order you like. all great keyboards.


----------



## ripster

I look at it more in terms of pricepoints. Getting the most quality for the buck. Filcos are quite good there. A Deck at $160 better be high quality. Some people will be quite happy with a Razer at $80 (probably gonna be discounted down to $100 less than the Deck).


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
So... how many of these keyboards do you actually own again?

. . .

The Decks I hear are pretty good but *only if they had better switches*...

Explain plz


----------



## ripster

Neither the 82 or Legend are available with Cherry Browns, the winner of the OCN Polls and that Starcraft dude (who by the way actually paid for it with his own money and had to switch to the sponsors keyboard for some of the matches).

I think he means V for Victory here.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 





The beginning of that commercial is just... erotic on so many levels.


----------



## lmnop

Costar plastics haven't even been identified (-10 points) presumed to be Polystyrene. Deck Legend 105 Fire is $149. iOne XArmor U9BL original MSRP was $149. shall we have a hoedown?


----------



## ripster

I'm beginning to think the Das/Filcos are ABS, not polystyrene - not brittle enough.

Deck Legend Tactile is what I was referring to. $170. I round up.

Face it. TG3 will pull out of the gaming keyboard in one year. Two tops. Razer is gonna put a world of hurt on those guys in Kenosha Wisconsin. They don't offer squat options any more.


----------



## lmnop

we are putting business practice into consideration now?


----------



## ripster

Well, just saying. It's the total package and gaming software, better distribution, and aggressive pricing are important to customers.

Deck could just coast when they were the only game in town.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
IBM
Deck
Unicomp
Topre
Northgate
Ducky
XArmor
Das
Filco

I knew ch_123 love for the Model F would find it's foot up my ass.

Where does Leopold stand on that list? I'd assume right near Filco...


----------



## ripster

Just about impossible to get a Leopold unless you are Korean. Kinda like the Duckys and getting one if you are not Chinese. All I believe are in the $120 range in their home country. Plan on $80 in extra costs to get a broker to send it to you.

In other words nobody buys them here. Nice internet pics though.


----------



## lmnop

I don't know much about Leopold other than Costar was the OEM.

ripster's favorite Noppoo Choc. no license for Windows Logo for you!


----------



## TwoCables

hehe I like that because it says "Win".


----------



## ripster

Noppoo


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
hehe I like that because it says "Win".

Wonder if there's one with a fail key... Maybe you could put that on delete







.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Wonder if there's one with a fail key... Maybe you could put that on delete







.

Or hey, maybe just use a "Fail" key instead since if it's not disabled during a game, then pressing it is total fail.


----------



## thiru

I've never actually played a game where the Windows key would actually bring me out of the game. Apart from Starcraft 2, which has a setting for disabling it.\\

And that key is win.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Neither the 82 or Legend are available with Cherry Browns, the winner of the OCN Polls and that Starcraft dude (who by the way actually paid for it with his own money and had to switch to the sponsors keyboard for some of the matches).

I'd rather have Clears over Browns any day (yes, I have tried browns)

Switches are all personal preference, so I really don't care about what's popular.


----------



## Tator Tot

Personally my only issue with the Deck stands on Price vs Features.

But the quality more than makes up for it.


----------



## De-Zant

I just LOOOVE it for gaming. It feels so nice to have this keyboard.

Last weekend I actually played 9 hours of TF2....

Once you begin to really concentrate on your playing, this keyboard makes it so much better








Just decided to express my joy here... I had to say something...

I have had it for... 4 weeks now.... And boy have I enjoyed gaming with it....


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *De-Zant* 
Last weekend I actually played 9 hours of TF2....

I can barely stand playing TF2 for an hour, let alone 9. God bless you.


----------



## lmnop

i'll turn you into a legend Maytan


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
i'll turn you into a legend Maytan

Zankoku na tenshi no tezi shounen yo shinwa ni nare?


----------



## lmnop

first rule no anime


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
first rule no anime









Haha, I'm not a big anime fan. Only a few series. (mainly Evangelion)









Phrase means "Like a Cruel Angel's Thesis, young boy rise up and become a legend."


----------



## thisispatrick

Watashi no hobākurafuto wa unagi de ippai desu.


----------



## lmnop

North America has the strongest soldiers in the world you must learn to laugh in the face of the enemy even when it's inappropriate.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Watashi no hobākurafuto wa unagi de ippai desu.











I'd be so lost without online translation tools.







I'd like to learn an Asian language, but I'd be forever stuck choosing between Japanese and Korean. Besides, people would think I'm a weaboo. Can't have that...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
North America has the strongest soldiers in the world you must learn to laugh in the face of the enemy even when it's inappropriate.

Ma'am yes ma'am!


----------



## lmnop

Thermaltake hosted a Starcraft 2 Tournament in Taipei.

Thermaltake Meka G1 mechanical keyboard.


----------



## ripster

Another nice USB only keyboard. At 1000hz he should be able to pwn everybody.


----------



## Maytan

Hey Ripster, did PS/2 do something to you when you were young? You seem to take a shot at it every chance you get. Just curious.


----------



## lmnop

I think a PS/2 adapter is included. videos for ripster to make fun of are definitely included.


----------



## ripster

You're right! Whew, a tough decision avoided.

Quote:

PS2 adapter included for N key rollover function
That first Dude REALLY likes that 1000hz polling rate! I was happy to see a USB cable so thick that Isaiah Mustafa would be jealous in the locker room.


----------



## lmnop

the Mandingo has been dethroned.


----------



## ripster

As I tell my son I'd worry more about hairy palms than sweaty ones.


----------



## KipH

I talked to Thermalright a bit about their boards. They had to get a geek to sppek to me, I was aksing harder questions than their siles guys could answr









Here is the write up. And the pictures are here. Sorry they are not together anymore








Last one may be their rubber condome



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Uploaded with ImageShack.us








By kiph69 at 2010-06-10








By kiph69 at 2010-06-10








By kiph69 at 2010-06-10








By kiph69 at 2010-06-10








By kiph69 at 2010-06-10








By kiph69 at 2010-06-10








By kiph69 at 2010-06-10








By kiph69 at 2010-06-10


----------



## ripster

Quote:

They listened to their team of pro-gamers as to what they wanted. They upped the poling rate to beyond human finger speed. Yes, you can't type this fast but if your hitting multi keys at the same time this may actuality give some slight boost that is so important at the highest of levels. Lowly mortals such as you and I will never notice the difference. But the big thing for me is: True NKRO over USB. If this is true its better then Microsoft could do with their own keyboards. I would like to test this out in true OCN style though. I gave the Microsoft guy hassles for his and I look forward to giving Thermaltake their due, good or bad, after I can convince my wife to buy one.
Another Ultrapolling USB keyboard.

We'll see.


----------



## j0n3z3y

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Feel the RealForce 87U - alas, a limited edition model









They still make flight sims where you pilot using the keyboard? I haven't done that since GTA3 days and even then it was easier to plug in a gamepad.

Nice







It's just my preference....I hate pads with a passion, and I tend to remap nearly everything to the keyboard. Especially true for heli's, even though I have a flight stick. I still prefer keyboard w/ them.


----------



## ripster

But seriously I've played enough sims to know that you won't have over 6 keys down at once. Lots of toggle this, toggle that. I've got a CH Flightstick/Throttle/Pedals for that kind of stuff.


----------



## BigT

The Thermaltake Meka G1 mechanical doesnt look too bad. i wounder if it has a metal plate in it??? i like how in the first video hey saisd it is "the first keyboard in the universe with 1000 polling rate" lol. razer has done that before. but i gues when any company does anythign they always say they were the first to do it. an your right that usb cable is THICK. i wounder why they needed it to look like the keyboard is on viagra.


----------



## lmnop

the Cherry MX Black switches are plate mounted. I think the cable is essentially a sleeve housing 4 individual cables. I don't know what makes it military spec but the Plantronics Gamecom 777 has a military spec cord which is essentially a woven plastic cable reinforced at both ends.










it looks like a cord you would find on a vacuum cleaner.


----------



## KipH

Mill spec for cords had to do with break forces, anti friction and amount of noise given off. So they were usually shielded and sleeved in smooth plastic.


----------



## lmnop

cute


----------



## yellowtoblerone

need more power

I'm given her all she's got sir

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 








By kiph69 at 2010-06-10

Looks exactly like the irocks mechanical i used to have .


----------



## KipH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Looks exactly like the irocks mechanical i used to have .

What you talking about bone? This has green lights and the Irocks has blue LED









As I said, they are the same, except its black switch vs brown and the TR has more flashing and trim. When I asked him if it was the same oem he just smiled and touched his nose.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigT*


The Thermaltake Meka G1 mechanical doesnt look too bad. i wounder if it has a metal plate in it???


It will. Any Cherry switch keyboard not made by Cherry will have a metal plate in it.

Not that it really makes much difference.


----------



## BigT

i just like really heavy keyboards. haveing metal in it really helps add to the weight. thats why my lycosa bugged me, it was so light and moved around so easily. so keyboards made by cherry are not mounted on a metal plate? asre they atleast heavy? i was concidering buying one with red switches, but i wont if they are not very heavy.


----------



## GeforceGTS

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


What you talking about bone? This has green lights and the Irocks has blue LED









As I said, they are the same, except its black switch vs brown and the TR has more flashing and trim. When I asked him if it was the same oem he just smiled and touched his nose.


I've seen you say it a few times now and I feel the need to correct you, it's Thermaltake and not Thermalright.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigT*


i just like really heavy keyboards. haveing metal in it really helps add to the weight. thats why my lycosa bugged me, it was so light and moved around so easily. so keyboards made by cherry are not mounted on a metal plate? asre they atleast heavy? i was concidering buying one with red switches, but i wont if they are not very heavy.


Heavy as in general keyboard weight or heavy as in key switch weight? Reds are a PITA to get btw.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

The Rosewill RK-9000 is $75 (today only) at Chiefvalue.com.

Coupon code: *CPGWRTIOB25*

It actually works this time







(last $30 coupon a few months back didn't).

Chiefvalue is Newegg owned. Email goes through mx10.newegg.com and my order came in a Newegg branded box.


----------



## KipH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *GeforceGTS*


I've seen you say it a few times now and I feel the need to correct you, it's Thermaltake and not Thermalright.










Bugger my dyslexia kicked in again, as well as my insomnia and agnosticism.

Now I will be up all night wondering if there really is a dog.


----------



## technodanvan

FYI to those that are in here looking for one of these, I just put up a Das Silent S in the F/S section here.


----------



## hometoast

Got my keycap installed on my Scorpius M10.

The cap definitely sits a little lower than the others, but I'm okay with that.


----------



## yayitsdan

Looks like the Miniguru has been canceled









On another note, I'm thinking about selling my black model M and buy a das keyboard (I need a windows key). I wonder how much I could get for that.


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:

Originally Posted by mondalaci
Why do you place the Das before the Filco? You cannot disassemble the Das without damaging the case and the build of the Filco case is much robust.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmnop
This is also where LÃ¡szlÃ³ and I disagree: he says that breaking the clips is inevitable, I managed to open my keyboard without breaking any.
Wow, very nice work then but still, try to break the case of a Filco.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mondalaci* 
Wow, very nice work then but still, try to break the case of a Filco.









I can't see myself breaking the case of this Das, quite frankly.

I'm expecting my Unicomp's casing to be even tougher. It certainly looks like it is.


----------



## SherrytoN

Is it possible to get your e-mail?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I can't see myself breaking the case of this Das, quite frankly.

I'm expecting my Unicomp's casing to be even tougher. It certainly looks like it is.

Unicomp and Deck casings are made out of polycarbonate it's a thermoplastic that is stronger and heavier than ABS. both are American Made coincidence?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Unicomp and Deck casings are made out of polycarbonate it's a thermoplastic that is stronger and heavier than ABS. both are American Made coincidence?









Interesting.









Unicomp is based in Kentucky, right? I wonder if they give factory tours... it'd be neat for a vacation.


----------



## lmnop

right.


----------



## lmnop

ABS M1 on eBay.
SGI Granite on eBay.
Chicony KB-7001 on eBay.
Das on eBay.


----------



## ripster

I like ABS. That's what is in the good old Model M, the $250 RealForces and the $250 Happy Hacking Keyboard.

For relaxation I bounce mine on concrete floors.


----------



## lmnop

I like ABS. you don't see thick, heavy cases made out of it anymore.


----------



## ripster

My USB cable is thicker than your USB cable. My ABS case pwns your cheap pvc. A PCB polished by Japanese virgins.

You really should get a RealForce.







:


----------



## lmnop




----------



## Maytan

Where can you get a mechanical board in Australia?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Where can you get a mechanical board in Australia?

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/ query Filco Majestouch.


----------



## Maytan

Danke Christine.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Danke Christine.









your welcome. Aus PC-Market Online also has the Das Model S.


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I can't see myself breaking the case of this Das, quite frankly.

I'm expecting my Unicomp's casing to be even tougher. It certainly looks like it is.

I didn't really mean the exposed part of the case, but the holding hooks which are only exposed when the case is disassembled. As Christine put it, it's possible to disassemble the Das without damaging these hooks but I consider it a very loose design when a hardware can be easily damaged upon disassembly.

Speaking about the case, I'm sure that when someone drops the Das some of those hooks will break but the Filco uses a much sturdier solution and I'm pretty sure that wouldn't break in such a situation.


----------



## Crazy9000

I have dropped my Das many times, and broken one of the USB ports. The casing has not come loose in the slightest.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigT*


i just like really heavy keyboards. haveing metal in it really helps add to the weight. thats why my lycosa bugged me, it was so light and moved around so easily. so keyboards made by cherry are not mounted on a metal plate? asre they atleast heavy? i was concidering buying one with red switches, but i wont if they are not very heavy.


Fortunately, having 104 mechanical switches and a better build quality definitely results in a keyboard that's noticeably heavier than the wimpy Lycosa. I mean, the Lycosa just has a rubber sheet on top of a sheet of plastic acting as a membrane (or perhaps silicon or something). But a mechanical keyboard using the Cherry MX switches mounted on a PCB is certainly going to be quite a bit heavier.

Sure, it won't be as heavy as a board that uses a metal plate, but the weight of that PCB and the weight of the 104 switches combined with the body of the keyboard makes for something that has quite a decent weight - especially when compared to that Lycosa.


----------



## lmnop

Cherry G80-3000 is 2.4-2.6lbs I think.


----------



## lmnop

I thought this rubber dome keyboard was too cool not to post









Gigabyte Aivia K8100


































this keyboard certainly has character










variable weight system like the Topre and Keytronic except this one was designed for gamers not typist. weights are 50, 60 and 70g

20 Keys have anti-ghosting Tab, Caps Lock, Left Shift, Left Ctrl, Q, W, E, A, S, D, G, Z, X, C, V, Spacebar, Cursor Up, Cursor Down, Cursor Left, Cursor Right










Rubber Domes


























Macros, Windows Key Lock and Volume Bar Touch Panel


















additional W, S, A, D Keys with a "leather" finish and Keycap changer included










USB 2.0 Port Left










USB 2.0 Port Right










Backlight










Bottom










Illuminated












source


----------



## Crazy9000

I'm I reading that right, it will allow 20 key presses? Wonder what they're doing to do that. I assume of course it's USB since it has a USB port on it







.


----------



## lmnop

yes. 20 Keys over USB there is a catch it's those Keys I listed only!


----------



## TwoCables

It's probably done the same way Microsoft did it.

Only, it's not "Anti-Ghosting", dammit.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


yes. 20 Keys over USB there is a catch it's those Keys I listed only!


I'm just interested in the progression of USB keyboard technology. If they are allowing over 6 and it works good, I'm happy for now.


----------



## lmnop

this is the translation

Another feature is the USB interface, USB HID may be over the limit, up to 20 keys can be exported. 但因為Aivia K8100內部是進行鍵盤矩陣(Keyboard Matrix)的優化，所以還是有可能會有鍵位衝突產生。 But because Aivia K8100 is for the internal keyboard matrix (Keyboard Matrix) optimization, so there may be conflicts keys. 但對於遊戲常用的特定20顆按鍵(非任意20鍵)，都不會產生鍵位衝突就已經足夠滿足許多玩家 。 But the game used for the specific 20 keys (non-random 20 key), will not have keys to the conflict have been sufficient to meet a lot of players. 至少我認為這一點對於技嘉來說，是個蠻大的思想突破。 At least I think it is for the Gigabyte is a very big breakthrough ideas. 關於鍵位衝突，詳細可以參考2010年10月份的電腦王雜誌 。 Conflicts on the keys in detail can refer to a computer in October 2010 King magazine .


----------



## thisispatrick

Looks like the Lamborghini of rubber domes haha.


----------



## BigT

it would be very cool if they found a way to make NKRO usb keyboards. who knows maybe there will be a usb3 keyboard with NKRO and a usb3 hub on it







still if they can do 20 keys that is a big improvement. it will be cool if they could make it any 20 keys. that would be enough for any kind of gameing. after all we only have 10 fingers, and i dont know about you but i dont game with my hands and feet very often.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigT*


it would be very cool if they found a way to make NKRO usb keyboards. who knows maybe there will be a usb3 keyboard with NKRO and a usb3 hub on it







still if they can do 20 keys that is a big improvement. it will be cool if they could make it any 20 keys. that would be enough for any kind of gameing. after all we only have 10 fingers, and i dont know about you but i dont game with my hands and feet very often.


I don't know. Haven't people already modded USB keyboards to have NKRO?

I mean, Isn't the 6KRO limitation in BIOS or something?

USB3 might have more bandwith, but it doesn't matter.... USB2 has enough bandwidth for streaming a video, the 6KRO limit isn't caused by bandwidth....


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


I don't know. Haven't people already modded USB keyboards to have NKRO?

I mean, Isn't the 6KRO limitation in BIOS or something?

USB3 might have more bandwith, but it doesn't matter.... USB2 has enough bandwidth for streaming a video, the 6KRO limit isn't caused by bandwidth....


The 6KRO is just a USB spec thing.







I think it has more to do with Windows than anything though.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


The 6KRO is just a USB spec thing.







I think it has more to do with Windows than anything though.


What about linux and mac? If you say that it might have more to do with windows, do those OS's have it any different?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


What about linux and mac? If you say that it might have more to do with windows, do those OS's have it any different?


hehe I knew I shouldn't have said that because I really don't know.


----------



## De-Zant

I know that you don't... I wasn't seeking any information, only reminding that windows is not the only OS....

But have people modded USB keyboards to have NKRO? Or do I remember wrong?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


I know that you don't... I wasn't seeking any information, only reminding that windows is not the only OS....


But I didn't need to be reminded.


----------



## gonX

Official spec is that 6+4 is the maximum on USB. 
It is possible to make your own spec that doesn't follow the official spec and be able to have full NKRO over USB. But that requires you to write your own device drivers.

IMO companies should allow full NKRO over USB with a certain switch on the keyboard. One for compatibility and one for NKRO - the switch changing what layout the keyboard should send the keycodes in.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But I didn't need to be reminded.


....

I don't wanna be a smart--- but that is not exactly what I meant.... 
IDK what I meant... Anyways...
Excuse me if it sounded rude.... I didn't think of another word....

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


Official spec is that 6+4 is the maximum on USB. 
It is possible to make your own spec that doesn't follow the official spec and be able to have full NKRO over USB. But that requires you to write your own device drivers.

IMO companies should allow full NKRO over USB with a certain switch on the keyboard. One for compatibility and one for NKRO - the switch changing what layout the keyboard should send the keycodes in.


Seems like something that would have a lot of problems. Can't think of a reason for companies like logitech or razer or higher quality manufacturers like deck NOT to make this thing work. It shouldn't be very hard...

Of course razer and logitech don't have NKRO in the keyboard I think... But deck is available in USB and PS2. USB has the 6+4 limitation. I can't imagine it being very hard to make those custom drivers....


----------



## gonX

You just have to think up the spec. Then with some small coding you should have most UNIX-like systems covered. Then with some licenses you should have Windows covered as well.

Considering both Microsoft and Logitech write their own drivers for their keyboards, I don't know why they haven't ever thought about making a NKRO driver and then offering full NKRO over their boards.
It should even be possible to send a flag to the keyboard that enables full-NKRO mode until next reconnection of the keyboard.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


You just have to think up the spec. Then with some small coding you should have most UNIX-like systems covered. Then with some licenses you should have Windows covered as well.

Considering both Microsoft and Logitech write their own drivers for their keyboards, I don't know why they haven't ever thought about making a NKRO driver and then offering full NKRO over their boards.
It should even be possible to send a flag to the keyboard that enables full-NKRO mode until next reconnection of the keyboard.


But if that's possible, then it confuses me that mechanical keyboards need a special controller or something inside of the keyboard just to have NKRO over PS/2.


----------



## gonX

Of course, you need a controller that supports it first







But that's just one part of the problem.


----------



## ripster

Actually the Gigabyte keyboard says "up to". Difference between maximum and minimum is huge.

My son learned this in statistics in the 6th grade.

For more on USB versus PS/2 and explanations on how Microsoft did it (not a custom driver) please refer to a well know NKey wiki on the internet. Not a certain other one that must not be mentioned.


----------



## TwoCables

lol


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Actually the Gigabyte keyboard says "up to". Difference between maximum and minimum is huge.

My son learned this in statistics in the 6th grade.

For more on USB versus PS/2 and explanations on how Microsoft did it (not a custom driver) please refer to a well know NKey wiki on the internet. Not a certain other one that must not be mentioned.


The GeekHack wiki? http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?tit...gy+and+Results


----------



## ripster

Yeah, that's the one that must not be mentioned.


----------



## gonX

What did lmnop tell you? lol


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


The GeekHack wiki? http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?tit...gy+and+Results


More interesting GeekHack wiki page: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6352


----------



## sefwe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
Official spec is that 6+4 is the maximum on USB.
It is possible to make your own spec that doesn't follow the official spec and be able to have full NKRO over USB. But that requires you to write your own device drivers.

Well there is no reason for them to do so. Its not a marketing buzzword. Same story as with mice. Everyone was on PS/2 200Hz and complaining(linux was @1000Hz) and mousemakers didnt make a slightest move, until the .dll wasnt hacked. And 1kHz is in spec. Then again newest mice arent exactly mice too. Same could happed to keyboards, They could stop being keyboards, but just multimedia devices and get as many buttons as they want. But noone really cares... It has to come from users, but i dont think the majority cares either, since they have to fight with blocking keys. As for today its difficult to find even 6 keys to press, let alone 100. Razer's "gaming" keyboards have a WASD matrix...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sefwe* 
Well there is no reason for them to do so. Its not a marketing buzzword. Same story as with mice. Everyone was on PS/2 200Hz and complaining(linux was @1000Hz) and mousemakers didnt make a slightest move, until the .dll wasnt hacked. And 1kHz is in spec. Then again newest mice arent exactly mice too. Same could happed to keyboards, They could stop being keyboards, but just multimedia devices and get as many buttons as they want. But noone really cares... It has to come from users, but i dont think the majority cares either, since they have to fight with blocking keys. As for today its difficult to find even 6 keys to press, let alone 100. Razer's "gaming" keyboards have a WASD matrix...

At the risk of sounding like I'm trolling: full NKRO provides peace of mind that there will *never* be any blocked keys.


----------



## ripster

I sure don't care about the 6+4 USB limit. I only have five fingers on my left hand.


----------



## TwoCables

But again: NKRO guarantees that there will never be any blocked keys. Ever.


----------



## gonX

I think 6+4 is just fine. If it was just 6, then it wouldn't really have been enough

I can sensibly click 6+2 buttons with my left hand alone (4 buttons + space + any key near space + ctrl + shift). I can obviously click more than that, but that wouldn't really be sensible input


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But again: NKRO guarantees that there will never be any blocked keys. Ever.

Yes. Most people could do on 6+4, but most USB keyboads have 2KRO. They can press up to 7-10 keys at a time, but some common key combinations won't do that.

Razer and logitech have keyboards like this.

But AFAIK deck has a reliable 6+4..... That would be fine.

But most USB keyboards









Loving my NKRO


----------



## ripster

I think bragging rights is a good thing.

Oh Nooooo! RealForce is only 6+4 over USB!!!!!


----------



## sefwe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
At the risk of sounding like I'm trolling: full NKRO provides peace of mind that there will *never* be any blocked keys.

Just lifting the 6+4 limit doesnt make the keyboard to be able to process 100 keypresses simultaneously. It still has to implement this functionality. And only a select few and expensive ones do at the moment. Thats the primary problem.


----------



## sefwe

A NoMultimediaKeys Keyboard?? I'll pass thanks.







The mute button saved my ass way to many times. Especially at late hours, hehe.......


----------



## Genkaz92

I have been typing on the model M for quite some time now, and my accuracy/typing speed appeared to have improved dramatically. I now also generally feel extremely natural and comfortable when typing on it, it was definitely a good idea to dig this thing out.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sefwe* 
A NoMultimediaKeys Keyboard?? I'll pass thanks.







The mute button saved my ass way to many times. Especially at late hours, hehe.......

It's really easy to bind the Fkeys to volume, and it's not like you use them much (except F1,5,10,11). Or you can set modifiers.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sefwe* 
Just lifting the 6+4 limit doesnt make the keyboard to be able to process 100 keypresses simultaneously. It still has to implement this functionality. And only a select few and expensive ones do at the moment. Thats the primary problem.

Who are you telling this to? I hope you aren't trying to teach this to me because I already know it.

I'm referring to full NKRO that many good mechanical keyboards have.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sefwe* 
A NoMultimediaKeys Keyboard?? I'll pass thanks.







The mute button saved my ass way to many times. Especially at late hours, hehe.......

The Del key on my keypad is my mute button.









SharpKeys, man. SharpKeys! http://sharpkeys.codeplex.com/

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genkaz92* 
I have been typing on the model M for quite some time now, and my accuracy/typing speed appeared to have improved dramatically. I now also generally feel extremely natural and comfortable when typing on it, it was definitely a good idea to dig this thing out.

Wow. Almost makes me want to order one from eBay to see what I get!


----------



## Genkaz92

Quote:

Wow. Almost makes me want to order one from eBay to see what I get!
Help yourself, I ordered one from this seller: link
and it only required a basic moist tissue to clean it, to give it a slightly less used look. I could give you nothing but good experiences and high recommendations, there is literally absolutely nothing bad about this thing, except maybe the aesthetics if you dislike functionality oriented simplicity, which I personally absolutely love.


----------



## sefwe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
It's really easy to bind the Fkeys to volume, and it's not like you use them much (except F1,5,10,11). Or you can set modifiers.

In Windows perhaps, but lots of games are using F1-12keys. Lineage2 for example is all F-keys. Then ofc there is a Volume up/down, which is very handy too.. it adds up pretty fast. Or some custom macros too.

---

What i find interesting though is all these attempts to get rid of the numpad, while keeping the arrow keys at all cost, while they are already integrated into numpad and a logical choice would be to remove them and not the other way around.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sefwe* 
In Windows perhaps, but lots of games are using F1-12keys. Lineage2 for example is all F-keys. Then ofc there is a Volume up/down, which is very handy too.. it adds up pretty fast. Or some custom macros too.

---

What i find interesting though is all these attempts to get rid of the numpad, while keeping the arrow keys at all cost, while they are already integrated into numpad and a logical choice would be to remove them and not the other way around.

You can use modifier keys (ctrl, shift, etc.) for shortcuts







e.g I have ctrl+alt+pagedown to mute my media player.


----------



## sefwe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Who are you telling this to? I hope you aren't trying to teach this to me because I already know it.

I'm referring to full NKRO that many good mechanical keyboards have.

I have no idea what youre talking about. What does it all have to with me saying that lifting 6+4 is pointless until keyboards cant handle it. And "Many"? Any statistical data to back that up? I'd say more than 95%+ of all keyboards are 2KRO.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sefwe* 
I have no idea what youre talking about. What does it all have to with me saying that lifting 6+4 is pointless until keyboards cant handle it. And "Many"? Any statistical data to back that up? I'd say more than 95%+ of all keyboards are 2KRO.

Do note he said "many mechanical keyboards."

Mechanical being the key word.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sefwe* 
In Windows perhaps, but lots of games are using F1-12keys. Lineage2 for example is all F-keys. Then ofc there is a Volume up/down, which is very handy too.. it adds up pretty fast. Or some custom macros too.

---

What i find interesting though is all these attempts to get rid of the numpad, while keeping the arrow keys at all cost, while they are already integrated into numpad and a logical choice would be to remove them and not the other way around.

Again: SharpKeys.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sefwe* 
I have no idea what youre talking about. What does it all have to with me saying that lifting 6+4 is pointless until keyboards cant handle it. And "Many"? Any statistical data to back that up? I'd say more than 95%+ of all keyboards are 2KRO.

I said many good MECHANICAL keyboards have full NKRO. Please give me a break. I am not as dumb as you think I am.


----------



## sefwe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I said many good MECHANICAL keyboards have full NKRO. Please give me a break. I am not as dumb as you think I am.

Razer keyboards are MECHANICAL, hyped, good, multimedia, and have a WASD matrix. Didnt i mention it above? Yes i did. So how many is "many". Have any numbers?


----------



## candy_van

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I am not as dumb as you think I am.

Must...resist...can't stop...giggling


----------



## thiru

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?tit...gy+and+Results


----------



## ripster

So anyway back to topic. lmnop neglected to mention this Gigabyte keyboard was USB only.









I'm pretty sure they ditched the PS/2 port so the gaming programming software could work. Just like the new Razer Black Widow. And the Steelseries SHIFT. I'd expect most new gaming keyboards to follow this trend.


----------



## candy_van

I'm thinking of picking up one of those Rosewill RK9000s just because they're so cheap (on sale) at Newegg's sister site.

I don't even think I'd like blues given my experience with clears, but it's just so cheap








Anyone want to talk me off the ledge lol?

Also, that Gigabyte board...it's aesthetically obnoxious (I had to say it)


----------



## sefwe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?tit...gy+and+Results

Heh 25 models for the whole market. Thats what keyboardmakers think of NKRO. I wonder why there are no Fujitsu-Siemens models listed. If im not mistaken many of their older models are NKRO too.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candy_van* 
I'm thinking of picking up one of those Rosewill RK9000s just because they're so cheap (on sale) at Newegg's sister site.

I don't even think I'd like blues given my experience with clears, but it's just so cheap









But they're clicky!


----------



## candy_van

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But they're clicky!









This is true








I mean it's $75 shipped, if I hate it I can just flip it quick here no harm no foul really I guess...what I can I say, I'm curious lol.

Also I returned the Deck (shields self from flames); just couldn't get comfy on it








Still want to try blacks too (looking at a Linear Force, when they come back into stock)...I'll have tried 4 different switch types in a month if I do both lol.

BTW...love the new custom title


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I can plug in my G80-8200 right now and hold down sixty keys at once. NKRO.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candy_van* 
This is true








I mean it's $75 shipped, if I hate it I can just flip it quick here no harm no foul really I guess.

Also I returned the Deck (shields self from flames); just couldn't get comfy on it








Still want to try blacks too (looking at a Linear Force, when they come back into stock)...I'll have tried 4 different switch types in a month if I do both lol.

Remember though, the Cherry MX Blacks are a little bit stiffer than the Clears - but they are linear, so that can be great.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candy_van* 
BTW...love the new custom title









lol thank you







It suddenly popped in my head a few days ago, and so there it is.

I think that perhaps I have seen the first Predator just a few too many times.


----------



## ripster

Maybe he just really likes PS/2?


----------



## gonX

Let's have a 1 hour timeout for you monkeys.


----------



## gonX

And unlocked way later than I expected. Sorry about that, but I hope you guys can be nice people as well


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
And unlocked way later than I expected. Sorry about that, but I hope you guys can be nice people as well









I was starting to go through withdrawal there. I think my fingers are skinnier now.


----------



## thisispatrick

My subscribed list was empty for a good 4 hours.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
My subscribed list was empty for a good 4 hours.

I started pacing.


----------



## sefwe

Its open. Thats good good. So what i was saying before interruptions, is that Fujitsu -Siemens, had but stopped making NKRO keyboards. I was going to purchase one back in 2003, but didnt. Maybe some are still around on Ebay.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
*Foam Element Switch*
Foam element switches, like rubber domes, came out of a need to make keyboards cheaper. The entire bottom of the pad is conductive, so the key is kept off the board by means of a spring. And underneath it you can find either a membrane sheet or a PCB. And as you can see in the picture on the bottom left, the contact area is enclosed by plastic to prevent dirt from getting underneath the pad.

Out of curiosity, why do you not count these as mechanical switches? I would consider them a type of mechanical switch, albeit a poor one.

Quote:

*Mechanical Switch*

...

Pros:

Quote:

[*]Virtually no degradation - the feel remains almost constant over the lifetime of the switch
Ever use an old Black Alps or Blue Cherry keyboard? Most mechanical switch designs become unpleasant to type on long before they become unusable.

Quote:

[*]Replacement of a single switch is possible if one goes bad
Depends. I've seen people devise guides for replacing/repairing dead scissor switch and rubber dome switches that would involve a lot less effort than it would to fix a Model M or a capacitive keyboard with a dead key.


----------



## uberjon

So, I got my deck fire today. few odd things.. few keycaps were slightly lose, pressing them they clicked into place though. also the left shift, and right enter buttons were actually off. box was in good condition and the keyboard seems fully functional.

Also, I ordered a USB and it came as PS/2 and seems to work fine in the PS/2 port?

last thing is I'm not sure my thoughts on the recessed space button? seems to be about the exact same as my old old keyboard that seemed to have blue caps. (except no click half way down)


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Out of curiosity, why do you not count these as mechanical switches? I would consider them a type of mechanical switch, albeit a poor one.

Well, you could also consider scissor switches, reed switches, and hall effect switches mechanical. I just don't think they really count, lol.

I think the problem here is defining a mechanical switch as either having the movement/feel of the switch controlled by a mechanical mechanism, or having the electrical contact done mechanically. Kind of like how a Model F could be called either mechanical or capacitive and it would still be correct.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Ever use an old Black Alps or Blue Cherry keyboard? Most mechanical switch designs become unpleasant to type on long before they become unusable.

Sure have. Buckling Springs, MX Blues, Black Alps, White Alps, and SMK Montereys. I don't think Black Alps are a fair comparison to anything else because they just suck in general... but the others felt just fine. Well, the Buckling Springs were kind of uneven between keys, but as you know that's normal, and I felt it to the same effect on my brand new Unicomp.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Depends. I've seen people devise guides for replacing/repairing dead scissor switch and rubber dome switches that would involve a lot less effort than it would to fix a Model M or a capacitive keyboard with a dead key.

But the real question here is - where the hell do you get the replacement domes from? If you harvest them from a random keyboard they won't even feel remotely the same. At least with mechanical switches you can order a single one on it's own for like $1 (from Digikey or whatever supplier you like), and all it takes is a few days of typing and the brand new switch sets in like the rest of them.

And the Model M is the easiest one of all most of the time..... pull the keycap off, pull the spring out, and twist a new spring in and set it using a pair of tweezers. Done. Only if you busted the hammer somehow is it a problem.


----------



## lmnop

I swear to god if you don't update the mechanical keyboard guide i'm going to hunt you down like you owe me child support


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I swear to god if you don't update the mechanical keyboard guide i'm going to hunt you down like you owe me child support









LOL I swear I already started rewriting it.

I could use some help if you want to update the list of keyboards though.

And you're going to see the text updated way before the pictures. I'm _still_ waiting for a frickin camera that I was supposed to have 3 weeks ago.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *uberjon* 
So, I got my deck fire today. few odd things.. few keycaps were slightly lose, pressing them they clicked into place though. also the left shift, and right enter buttons were actually off. box was in good condition and the keyboard seems fully functional.

Also, I ordered a USB and it came as PS/2 and seems to work fine in the PS/2 port?

last thing is I'm not sure my thoughts on the recessed space button? seems to be about the exact same as my old old keyboard that seemed to have blue caps. (except no click half way down)

sorry to hear. contact Deck technical support and ask if you can exchange it for a USB model.

the Linear models have a Cherry MX Grey switch in the spacebar. (80cN, Linear)

the spacebar is also recessed.

they explained why they did it on the forums but I forgot to bookmark it.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *uberjon* 
So, I got my deck fire today. few odd things.. few keycaps were slightly lose, pressing them they clicked into place though. also the left shift, and right enter buttons were actually off. box was in good condition and the keyboard seems fully functional.

Also, I ordered a USB and it came as PS/2 and seems to work fine in the PS/2 port?

last thing is I'm not sure my thoughts on the recessed space button? seems to be about the exact same as my old old keyboard that seemed to have blue caps. (except no click half way down)

They caps probably just came loose during shipping, nothing to worry about really.

As for the recessed spacebar, that gave me all sorts of problems at first lol. I would miss hitting the space key all the time. I guess you get used to it pretty quickly though.


----------



## uberjon

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
sorry to hear. contact Deck technical support and ask if you can exchange it for a USB model.

the Linear models have a Cherry MX Grey switch in the spacebar. (80cN, Linear)

the spacebar is also recessed.

they explained why they did it on the forums but I forgot to bookmark it.

was more worried if it 'was' usb but with the wrong tip or something. (don't want to damage it)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
They caps probably just came loose during shipping, nothing to worry about really.

As for the recessed spacebar, that gave me all sorts of problems at first lol. I would miss hitting the space key all the time. I guess you get used to it pretty quickly though.

so the caps are rather easy to come off? my old one had like metal clips under the keycaps this one doesnt have those. (wanting to install the custom keycap that came with it)


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *uberjon* 
was more worried if it 'was' usb but with the wrong tip or something. (don't want to damage it)

so the caps are rather easy to come off? my old one had like metal clips under the keycaps this one doesnt have those. (wanting to install the custom keycap that came with it)

Deck uses Cherry stabilizers. highly favored.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
LOL I swear I already started rewriting it.

I could use some help if you want to update the list of keyboards though.

And you're going to see the text updated way before the pictures. I'm _still_ waiting for a frickin camera that I was supposed to have 3 weeks ago.

Canon would never treat you that way


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d* 
Canon would never treat you that way









haha, don't do this to me!

But actually, it was the 5Dii that I was supposed to be getting, but the stupid shop never shipped it. First because of that holiday that _all_ camera shops seem to take, and then because it got stuck in their system.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
haha, don't do this to me!

But actually, it was the 5Dii that I was supposed to be getting, but the stupid shop never shipped it. First because of that holiday that _all_ camera shops seem to take, and then because it got stuck in their system.

Sounds like you ordered from Adorama or B&H. I love online camera stores, but unfortunately most of them are based in NYC, and according to friends of mine over there, Jewish holidays are treated as national holidays where all the shops close. And there are a _lot_ of Jewish holidays.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*


Sounds like you ordered from Adorama or B&H. I love online camera stores, but unfortunately most of them are based in NYC, and according to friends of mine over there, Jewish holidays are treated as national holidays where all the shops close. And there are a _lot_ of Jewish holidays.


Yeah, and what makes it worse is I LIVE in NY, so I get charged tax from all of them


----------



## ripster

Canon? That's what the sports guys and animal lovers shoot isn't it? Forensic scientists and serial murderers like Dexter go Nikon FTW.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Canon? That's what the sports guys shoot isn't it? Scientists and serial murderers like Dexter go Nikon FTW.


Yeah, I've got a D700 that _should_ be arriving tomorrow. I hope.

I do still need to pick up a macro focusing rail like that though


----------



## uberjon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Deck uses Cherry stabilizers. highly favored.











*reads further on the link you gave me*

Quote:



Also, be careful on the larger keys with stabilization systems. Be sure to study the section above to learn how they work for your particular keyboard before attempting to remove. IBM spacebars tend to break at this point if yanked quickly or if the keyboard is dropped.


bingo lol..

On the deck, how would i remove the esc key for example?


----------



## Crazy9000

The normal keys don't have any bars, just pop them off like you would with any keyboard.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *uberjon* 
*reads further on the link you gave me*

bingo lol..

On the deck, how would i remove the esc key for example?

only large keys have stabilizers in them. the link I gave you has a section for tools you can use to remove keys.


----------



## bluexselvedge

bootie butt


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Anyone here done the Model M bolt mod on an M13?


----------



## gonX

Hahaha, I'm sorry about the closure. I was on my way home from work and something came up. When I came home I actually forgot about it.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Anyone here done the Model M bolt mod on an M13?


Should be no different to bolt modding a standard M. The trackpoint is glued to the upper part of the internal assembly, so I dont think there are any extra rivets for it.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Sure have. Buckling Springs, MX Blues, Black Alps, White Alps, and SMK Montereys. I don't think Black Alps are a fair comparison to anything else because they just suck in general... but the others felt just fine. Well, the Buckling Springs were kind of uneven between keys, but as you know that's normal, and I felt it to the same effect on my brand new Unicomp.


Blue Cherries don't keep their feel, neither do Black Alps. Neither do buckling springs to an extent. It's a bit of a generalization to say that mechanical switches keep their feel over the lifetime of the switch.

Quote:



But the real question here is - where the hell do you get the replacement domes from? If you harvest them from a random keyboard they won't even feel remotely the same. At least with mechanical switches you can order a single one on it's own for like $1 (from Digikey or whatever supplier you like), and all it takes is a few days of typing and the brand new switch sets in like the rest of them.


Well, that of course assumes that your keyboard uses a readily available switch. Does anyone sell ***kas for example?

Quote:



And the Model M is the easiest one of all most of the time..... pull the keycap off, pull the spring out, and twist a new spring in and set it using a pair of tweezers. Done. Only if you busted the hammer somehow is it a problem.


You've obviously never had to fix a Model M with a dead membrane trace. Then you'd see where I'm coming from


----------



## BigT

ch 123, every time i read one of your posts it comes out with Dr. Gregory House's voice in my head. that low almost angry voice he has when he is thinking really hard and shooting down every idea his team gives him. lol. all because of your avatar. i love it "it's not lupus" !









such a great show!


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Blue Cherries don't keep their feel, neither do Black Alps. Neither do buckling springs to an extent. It's a bit of a generalization to say that mechanical switches keep their feel over the lifetime of the switch.

Well no they're not exactly 100% identical to a 6-mo old board, but it's also only a very minor change. Small enough of a change that I'm sure most people couldn't care less about.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Well, that of course assumes that your keyboard uses a readily available switch. Does anyone sell ***kas for example?

True :/

But if you did buy another board to replace it, there's always a market for harvested keycaps and switches, so your net cost is still pretty low. But there's no market for a G15 with a busted "W" key, or for it's keycaps.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
You've obviously never had to fix a Model M with a dead membrane trace. Then you'd see where I'm coming from









lol yeah, never had to do that before - but I have done complete spring+hammer replacements. And yes those rivets are a pain in the butt. But as long as you've got a drill it only takes 2 mins


----------



## Tator Tot

Does anyone still produce boards with Alps switches anymore?

Topre & Cherry switches are the most common to my knowledge.

For that matter, what switches are still being actively produced?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Does anyone still produce boards with Alps switches anymore?

Topre & Cherry switches are the most common to my knowledge.

For that matter, what switches are still being actively produced?

Cherry MX, MY, ML
Topre
Buckling spring
***ka (Alps clones)
XM (Alps clones)

XM and ***ka are more common in Asia, but obviously pop up in the US from time to time, in the ABS M1 and Filco Zero.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Does anyone still produce boards with Alps switches anymore?

Topre & Cherry switches are the most common to my knowledge.

For that matter, what switches are still being actively produced?

CVT Avant Prime and Stellar, DSI 6600, DSI BigFont.


----------



## thisispatrick

Its already October 7th and I still haven't received any shipping notification of my review unit from Razer. I think they forgot about me. Either that or they're going to ship it on the 13th like it was planned. (As in the consumer shipping date.)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Its already October 7th and I still haven't received any shipping notification of my review unit from Razer. I think they forgot about me. Either that or they're going to ship it on the 13th like it was planned. (As in the consumer shipping date.)

Actually, you're right about the 13th: that's when it is being released.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Actually, you're right about the 13th: that's when it is being released.

What I was thinking was that since I am counted as press, Razer would ship it early so we can have a review out before/early release. Oh well. Should really get to studying for midterms anyways.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
Well no they're not exactly 100% identical to a 6-mo old board, but it's also only a very minor change. Small enough of a change that I'm sure most people couldn't care less about.

Trust me, you've obviously never compared a well-worn Cherry or Alps board with a NIB or even one in good condition. I guarantee you without doubt that not only would you tell the difference, you might even doubt that they were the same switch.

Buckling springs actually hold up quite well because of the sheer simplicity of the mechanism.

Quote:

Well, you could also consider scissor switches, reed switches, and hall effect switches mechanical. I just don't think they really count, lol.

I think the problem here is defining a mechanical switch as either having the movement/feel of the switch controlled by a mechanical mechanism, or having the electrical contact done mechanically. Kind of like how a Model F could be called either mechanical or capacitive and it would still be correct.
I don't really understand what you mean by a "mechanical mechanism" in this context. By most definitions, any keyboard switch is a mechanical mechanism. The only consistent (but yet particularly unsatisfying) definition that anyone has is the "metal spring" one, that rules out scissor switches. It also rules out hall effect switches (which, the last I checked, are completely magnetic in nature), which is ironic given that they outlast any mechanical switch ever made. It would however include the foam'n'foil switch because they are just linear capacitive switches that bottom out in a mushy manner.

Off the top of my head, I can think of three types of non-mechanical switch (excluding the really weird stuff) -

Rubber Domes
Scissor Switches (really a special case of rubber domes)
Rubber Sleeves (pretty rare nowadays, can be pretty much ignored)

I don't really like the whole 'mechanical keyboard' thing because instead of being a meaningful taxonomy of keyboard switch types, it's just a short hand for saying 'not rubber dome'. The problem with that is that you then have to shoehorn everything that isn't a rubber dome into the same category, which isn't particularly useful because within the set of switch types that aren't rubber domes, you have a huge degree of variance across the range of useful parameters. That, and you have 'mechanical' switches that are less pleasant to type on than rubber domes, less reliable than rubber domes, more prone to electronics issues than rubber domes (those transposition errors on ***ka switches were caused in part by the debounce time of the ***ka switches) and so on so forth.

You might ask why I have a problem with it. Like anything in the computer hardware, when you give the masses a simple, yet relatively meaningless attribute to cling to, marketing departments in companies jump in on the game and then it all goes arseways. People don't want a mechanical keyboard, they want a good keyboard. These two things are not always interchangeable, something that people seem to forget when they get interested in these things.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
***ka (Alps clones)

This one is interesting. ***ka actually own Alps' old Taiwanese switch plant, and make their switch to the same recipe that Alps did. Of course, they make the simplified Alps switch as opposed to the complicated type that's generally associated with the oldschool Alps boards, but I think it's the reason why they are far more popular than the other simplified Alps switches such as the XMs, which are just cheap ripoffs.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Trust me, you've obviously never compared a well-worn Cherry or Alps board with a NIB or even one in good condition. I guarantee you without doubt that not only would you tell the difference, you might even doubt that they were the same switch.

Well if you've got one on hand send it over and we'll see







. Maybe you're right, but I've definitely used old boards with those switches that at least _look_ like they're worn to hell and back.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
I don't really understand what you mean by a "mechanical mechanism" in this context. By most definitions, any keyboard switch is a mechanical mechanism. The only consistent (but yet particularly unsatisfying) definition that anyone has is the "metal spring" one, that rules out scissor switches. It also rules out hall effect switches (which, the last I checked, are completely magnetic in nature), which is ironic given that they outlast any mechanical switch ever made.

Hall effect switches - by definition - use magnetic fields to "sense" the depression of the keys, but not necessarily to provide the upwards force. For example, hall effect sensors are used in cars to determine the position of the crankshaft and adjust ignition timing accordingly - whenever the shaft hits certain positions, the plugs are fired. But you don't see that shaft being _turned_ by magnets too.

I guess you can't give a _clear_ definition though.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
*People don't want a mechanical keyboard, they want a good keyboard. These two things are not always interchangeable, something that people seem to forget when they get interested in these things.*

Agreed.


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


Deck uses Cherry stabilizers. highly favored.











Why are Cherry stabilizers favored over Costar stabilizers?

Also, are there any other manufacturers who create stabilizers?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mondalaci* 
Why are Cherry stabilizers favored over Costar stabilizers?

SQUEAK SQUEAK SQUEAK SQUEAK SQUEAK SQUEAK SQUEAK

Now to be fair, that's not the design's fault. That's Costar doing a bad job of lubrication. The problem with the design is, it's next to impossible to lubricate them. I applied a liberal amount of White Lithium Grease, but it just doesn't distribute properly.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mondalaci*


Why are Cherry stabilizers favored over Costar stabilizers?

Also, are there any other manufacturers who create stabilizers?












Cherry stabilizers are unbreakable.

Costar (Cherry), Costar (Alps), iOne (Cherry).

Quote:



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 317 (2 members and 315 guests)


wow.


----------



## lmnop

I should of said Cherry stabilizers are Maytan proof.


----------



## falco216

Notice the 313 guests in this thread?


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/do8jq/til_keyboards_are_way_more_advanced_than_i_ever/

Reddit says hi.


----------



## Manyak

When this thread hits 1,000,000 views I'm going to give away a keyboard.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Hi, reddit!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


When this thread hits 1,000,000 views I'm going to give away a keyboard.


hehe only 279,482 to go.









Ok, so only ~279,400 to go.


----------



## BigT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


When this thread hits 1,000,000 views I'm going to give away a keyboard.


when you do can you give your cherry red key to me









i will pay for shipping. LOL


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


When this thread hits 1,000,000 views I'm going to give away a keyboard.


Now this I gotta' see.


----------



## DaMirrorLink

in for keyboard? LOL


----------



## skarm

My ABS M1 died and now I'm stuck with this thing:








Any idea what this is?


----------



## Crazy9000

I'm going out on a limb here, but I think it may be a keyboard.


----------



## Marin

Not answering that question skarm.


----------



## skarm

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I'm going out on a limb here, but I think it may be a keyboard.

Are you sure?

Quote:

Not answering that question skarm.
herp a derp

But no really, it doesn't really say anything on the backside that lets me determine what model keyboard this is and I can't really figure if it's much good at all. It's been sitting in my garage for quite a while and still works good as new.

I know it's a mechanical board though.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skarm* 
Are you sure?

herp a derp

But no really, it doesn't really say anything on the backside that lets me determine what model keyboard this is and I can't really figure if it's much good at all. It's been sitting in my garage for quite a while and still works good as new.

I know it's a mechanical board though.

You're more obsessed with Touhou than my friend who goes by the name of 'Geemer'.

I applaud you, I thought nobody could surpass him.


----------



## lmnop

it's a Model M. what is wrong with your ABS M1?


----------



## BigT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skarm* 
My ABS M1 died and now I'm stuck with this thing

does the ABS M1 use Black Alps keys? what are the characteristics of those keys,? force, tactile, clickly, travel, actuation, and reset, etc...


----------



## LarsMarkelson

I have my Filco tenkeyless Blue at work now, and my Filco tenkeyless Brown at home. I really like the contrast between the two after having used one for a while, then using another.

It feels really great, it's like these Browns feel soooo light and nice now


----------



## skarm

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
You're more obsessed with Touhou than my friend who goes by the name of 'Geemer'.

I applaud you, I thought nobody could surpass him.

How did you know I liked Touhou so much?

Quote:

it's a Model M. what is wrong with your ABS M1?
spacebar completely died, manually pressing the switch under the spacebar did nothing


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigT* 
does the ABS M1 use Black Alps keys? what are the characteristics of those keys,? force, tactile, clickly, travel, actuation, and reset, etc...

Yeah Simplified Black Alps (***kas)
Force is 60-65G IIRC.
They're tactile.
The travel feels rough
None Clicky (on the ABS M1, some black Alps are like on the Filco Zero)
(From what I hear) Travel & Actuation can actually vary a bit switch to switch; but they're like 3.5mm travel, 2mm Actuation if I recall.

The M1 wasn't a terrible board at $30, but grab a Dell AT101W or SIG Granite if you want an Alps board.

I've got a AT101W, and even though it's old; the key travel feels more smooth than the ABS M1. ANd it's a MUCH more sturdy board.


----------



## BigT

hey thanks for the info. i want an old IBM model M, and a cherry red. I have a feeling i will end up haveing a collection. LOL. this is bad. I should have never started reading the mechanmical keyboard guide!!!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigT* 
hey thanks for the info. i want an old IBM model M, and a cherry red. I have a feeling i will end up haveing a collection. LOL. this is bad. I should have never started reading the mechanmical keyboard guide!!!

Cherry MX-Red's are actually a favorite of mine. I feel rather annoyed that I sold the board back on ebay (lost about $20 overall on that.)

But to be fair, I don't need all the keyboards.

Right now I have a Cherry MX-Blue keybard (Filco Tenkeyless), Two Black Alps keyboards (Dell AT101W & ABS M1), and then my Cherry MX-Clear board (Deck Legend)


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *skarm*


How did you know I liked Touhou so much?


The avatar, the signature, the name of your system, and your creepy awesome pillows.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *skarm*


How did you know I liked Touhou so much?

spacebar completely died, manually pressing the switch under the spacebar did nothing


I hope you didn't throw it out.


----------



## skarm

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


I hope you didn't throw it out.


i paid $20 for it and yeah it's in the garbage


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *skarm*


i paid $20 for it and yeah it's in the garbage


you shouldn't have. you could of sold it, repaired it, harvested it.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
you shouldn't have. you could of sold it, repaired it, harvested it.

Not really worth it on a keyboard that cheap, except maybe as practice.


----------



## Norlig

Ordered the 7G yesterday ^^

really expensive though, but hope its worth it.

Is there anything I should know about it that isnt said in the OP?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Not really worth it on a keyboard that cheap, except maybe as practice.

nonsense. he could of replaced the dead switch with another. he could of harvested the switches. once in a while someone asks about black keycaps. the PCB can be used for a modification. I think a lot of people would of taken it off his hands for $10.


----------



## Crazy9000

Don't think I'd go through the trouble of selling a keyboard for $10, unless I was selling a lot of them







.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Don't think I'd go through the trouble of selling a keyboard for $10, unless I was selling a lot of them







.

once in a while you will see FOR PARTS ads. he could donate it. I would of repaired it for free.

what you don't do is treat it like a rubber dome keyboard and throw it away.


----------



## Crazy9000

I know your evil plot. You want to make a family of boards with ***kas, so you can say "This is the mother ***ka, this is the father ***ka, and these are the ***ka kids."


----------



## lmnop

lol I was in the mood to fist someone and it was his turn.

the "I paid $20" argument is silly. people have paid less than $10 for a Northgate Omnikey at goodwill you wouldn't throw that away would you?


----------



## Crazy9000

I couldn't bring myself to throw away a sexy oldschool keyboard personally.

To do a complete 180 on topic, would the a-z keys for the HHKB work fine on the realforce? I know the stems will fit, just wondering if they are a slightly odd shape or something.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I couldn't bring myself to throw away a sexy oldschool keyboard personally.

To do a complete 180 on topic, would the a-z keys for the HHKB work fine on the realforce? I know the stems will fit, just wondering if they are a slightly odd shape or something.

A-Z will have the same plunger and profile. the Northgate Omnikey is appealing but I wouldn't call it sexy.


----------



## TwoCables

Only a mechanical keyboard enthusiast would have kept it. So what? He's not an enthusiast which caused him to toss it. It's not that big of a deal.


----------



## lmnop

i'm sure the rats will appreciate it


----------



## GIMJ

Hey guys, I am a longtime lurker posting for the first time. I was just wondering if anyone knew why it seems that the release date for the blackwidow keeps getting pushed back. Originally it was September and now it is back to the end of october and I am getting tired of waiting. I was considering getting a filco instead but the shipping costs are a real pain. Does anyone know of any filco canadian distributors?


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GIMJ* 
Does anyone know of any filco canadian distributors?

Elitekeyboards is the sole distributor for the US and Canada.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GIMJ* 
Hey guys, I am a longtime lurker posting for the first time. I was just wondering if anyone knew why it seems that the release date for the blackwidow keeps getting pushed back. Originally it was September and now it is back to the end of october and I am getting tired of waiting. I was considering getting a filco instead but the shipping costs are a real pain. Does anyone know of any filco canadian distributors?

a Filco Majestouch can cost a lot depending on the currency exchange and customs fee. you can buy the Das Model S at BestDirect (out of stock), DirectCanada (out of stock) and TekGear.


----------



## thisispatrick

Some people aren't going to be happy...


----------



## GIMJ

I was reading the op and I don't really understand the difference between blues and browns, is it just the noise?


----------



## lmnop




----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GIMJ* 
I was reading the op and I don't really understand the difference between blues and browns, is it just the noise?

Blues are clicky, slightly heavier, have a more pronounced tactile bump, and the reset point is higher than the actuation point.


----------



## GIMJ

so the reset point isn't higher than the actuation point on browns?


----------



## lmnop

correct. Cherry MX Blue is a typing switch. some people have problems playing games with them because of the reset point. Razer decided to manufacture and sell a mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX Blue switches the only problem is they market it towards gamers instead of typist










if your looking for a mechanical keyboard to play games and type you should buy a mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX Brown switches.

if your looking for a mechanical keyboard to play games and occasionally type you should buy a mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX Black switches.

going to sleep. good night


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
correct. Cherry MX Blue is a typing switch. some people have problems playing games with them because of the reset point. Razer decided to manufacture and sell a mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX Blue switches the only problem is they market it towards gamers instead of typist









if your looking for a mechanical keyboard to play games and type you should buy a mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX Brown switches.

if your looking for a mechanical keyboard to play games and occasionally type you should buy a mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX Black switches.

going to sleep. good night









Ditto'ed, except I'd like to add:

If you feel the browns are too light, consider the clear switches. If you think the Blacks are too heavy, consider the red switches.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d* 
Ditto'ed, except I'd like to add:

If you feel the browns are too light, consider the clear switches. If you think the Blacks are too heavy, consider the red switches.

he lives in Canada. Cherry MX Clear switches are not available.

your choices are simple.

steelseries 7g (Cherry MX Black)
steelseries 6gv2 (Cherry MX Black)
Das Model S Silent (Cherry MX Brown)


----------



## Crazy9000

Red switches are too rare/expensive for anyone who isn't a mechanical enthusiast to consider IMO.


----------



## DeltaGunner

I just recently found out about mechanical keyboards, and even more recently i found this topic. (Its GREAT)
But im still confused Imnop explains the switches but most keyboards that are a bit in my price range have Black or Blue Cherry's. I mostly game but offcourse i typ too. I dont know what switches i should pick. The Steelseries 7G uses black(?) and the Razer uses Blue. I dont know any board with browns.
And is it still comfortable to type on Black's?

Btw my price range is <100


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DeltaGunner* 
I just recently found out about mechanical keyboards, and even more recently i found this topic. (Its GREAT)
But im still confused Imnop explains the switches but most keyboards that are a bit in my price range have Black or Blue Cherry's. I mostly game but offcourse i typ too. I dont know what switches i should pick. The Steelseries 7G uses black(?) and the Razer uses Blue. I dont know any board with browns.
And is it still comfortable to type on Black's?

Btw my price range is <100

I suggest you sign up at geekhack because I don't know what is available to you. there are a couple mechanical keyboard enthusiast from Netherlands there.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DeltaGunner* 
I just recently found out about mechanical keyboards, and even more recently i found this topic. (Its GREAT)
But im still confused Imnop explains the switches but most keyboards that are a bit in my price range have Black or Blue Cherry's. I mostly game but offcourse i typ too. I dont know what switches i should pick. The Steelseries 7G uses black(?) and the Razer uses Blue. I dont know any board with browns.
And is it still comfortable to type on Black's?

Btw my price range is <100

I just remembered a couple retailers that ship to Netherlands.

getdigital.de carries the Das Model S in US, UK and DE layout. Filco Majestouch in US layout.

keyboardco.com carries the Filco Majestouch in every layout. keyboardco has a vendor section at geekhack.


----------



## thiru

This website sells Deck 82s in Europe from Germany.


----------



## DeltaGunner

I ment that i dont really know what switches i should go for. The browns seem to be the most popular, then the blue and then the blacks. But are the Browns more like a old school keyboard thing? I dont want to press too hard. And i dont know, but i think i might like the idea of a clicky feeling when it actuates.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DeltaGunner* 
I ment that i dont really know what switches i should go for. The browns seem to be the most popular, then the blue and then the blacks. But are the Browns more like a old school keyboard thing? I dont want to press too hard. And i dont know, but i think i might like the idea of a clicky feeling when it actuates.

The browns are the pretty light weighing in at 45G. The other would have to be the 35G Topre.

They're a good choice for a first mechanical keyboard. An equal balance between typing and gaming needs.

I have no idea what you mean by old school keyboard thing.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DeltaGunner* 
I ment that i dont really know what switches i should go for. The browns seem to be the most popular, then the blue and then the blacks. But are the Browns more like a old school keyboard thing? I dont want to press too hard. And i dont know, but i think i might like the idea of a clicky feeling when it actuates.

It's buckling springs that are old school







but blues are closest I think.

Browns are lightest of the 3. And clicky is a sound. Tactile is the feeling. Blue is both tactile (more so than browns) and clicky.


----------



## candy_van

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DeltaGunner* 
I ment that i dont really know what switches i should go for. The browns seem to be the most popular, then the blue and then the blacks. But are the Browns more like a old school keyboard thing? I dont want to press too hard. And i dont know, but i think i might like the idea of a clicky feeling when it actuates.

Well everyone has their own preference, but I like browns for gaming thus far.

Haven't tried blues, but based on my experience with MX clears I don't think I'd like it.
I don't mind tactility on the browns, but was not a fan with how pronounced it was on the clears (compiled w/ higher actuation force).

Going to give black a shot just for the heck of it, if I don't like that then looks like MX Browns will be my all-around weapon of choice


----------



## LarsMarkelson

I don't think I would like Blacks. They're pretty much designed to bottom out with it seems... bottoming out on a Filco + heavier 60g weight, imo would be stressful on the fingers.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
I don't think I would like Blacks. They're pretty much designed to bottom out with it seems... bottoming out on a Filco + heavier 60g weight, imo would be stressful on the fingers.

Black's and other linear switches are not designed to be bottomed out.

They're designed for those that want smooth travel on the switch.

Bottoming out on a filco is no different from doing it on most normal keyboards. And actually, those "normal" Dell keyboards that are around right now are actually much worse feeling when you bottom out compared to a filco because the force on rubber domes increase to a point, then instantly drops off and you bottom out activating the key.

Atleast with a Cherry MX-Black or Cherry MX-Red switch; you travel with the same for down the entire way.


----------



## candy_van

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
I don't think I would like Blacks. They're pretty much designed to bottom out with it seems... bottoming out on a Filco + heavier 60g weight, imo would be stressful on the fingers.

You don't have to bottom out on the blacks though it's 2mm to actuation and 4mm to bottom.
I don't doubt it will be a bit stiff, but I won't need to deal with the tactile bump in addition to it like I did with clears.

The only reason I don't mind the tactile bump on browns is because they're pretty light to begin with, so it doesn't bother me (while gaming).


----------



## BigT

Blacks are really good for gameing. the presure increases with them as you push down. When gameing you will always bottom out, and you will reach the full force of the blacks, 80g. its feels nice and they almost feel like they help return you finger and make it snap back really fast. but at the same time for for me atleast they do not feel like they require alot of force to push down. i guess because they start at 40g.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Black's and other linear switches are not designed to be bottomed out.

They're designed for those that want smooth travel on the switch.

Bottoming out on a filco is no different from doing it on most normal keyboards. And actually, those "normal" Dell keyboards that are around right now are actually much worse feeling when you bottom out compared to a filco because the force on rubber domes increase to a point, then instantly drops off and you bottom out activating the key.

Atleast with a Cherry MX-Black or Cherry MX-Red switch; you travel with the same for down the entire way.

I've heard Topre switches are much nicer feeling to bottom out on.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
I've heard Topre switches are much nicer feeling to bottom out on.

I can't speak on that; as I haven't used Topre switches.

I'm looking at getting a RealForce 105 55G in the future though. But those are not cheap keyboards. (Though my Deck was around $200 Shipped.)


----------



## runeazn

Oh note,
anybody interested in a OCN esc key,and lives in EU, i am probably going to ship a lot to here if people are interested..

btw,, 2 users, 98 guests ROFL.


----------



## ripster

So.... do you think they have made it down to post #8761 yet?

I meant #8762.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

LOL fine I'll log in. I was one of those guests.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
They're designed for those that want smooth travel on the switch.

I think the primary design motivation behind linear switches is that they are very reliable due to their simplicity. That's why you get them on keyboards where they are likely to be abused - like POS, industrial, military etc. I think most people will take a tactile switch if given the choice.


----------



## shaddix

hueg thread is hueg.
Which is the keyboard of choice for gaming + fast typing? I'm wary of keyboards that require a lot of weight to activate since it seems that would slow me down, but maybe my intuition about that is wrong. I've been looking at the filco majestouch.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shaddix* 
hueg thread is hueg.
Which is the keyboard of choice for gaming + fast typing? I'm wary of keyboards that require a lot of weight to activate since it seems that would slow me down, but maybe my intuition about that is wrong. I've been looking at the filco majestouch.

Well the average rubber dome keyboard is 60-65G of force, so even some of the more heavy switches like the MX-Black's do not require that much more force.


----------



## shaddix

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Well the average rubber dome keyboard is 60-65G of force, so even some of the more heavy switches like the MX-Black's do not require that much more force.

Oh I see so that is a non-issue then. Currently have a G11 which I needed for FF11, but since I'm not playing that anymore....... Filco Majestouch cherry brown for me? Or maybe clears?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shaddix* 
Oh I see so that is a non-issue then. Currently have a G11 which I needed for FF11, but since I'm not playing that anymore....... Filco Majestouch cherry brown for me? Or maybe clears?

I don't think Filco has clears.


----------



## shaddix

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
I don't think Filco has clears.

****. I think I also want something backlit. Deck legend then?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shaddix* 
****. I think I also want something backlit. Deck legend then?

Guess so.


----------



## shaddix

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Guess so.

damn that was easy. I was expecting to spend a week trying to figure out what keyboard to get hahaha


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shaddix* 
****. I think I also want something backlit. Deck legend then?

Deck Legend Ice or Frost Tactile come with MX-Clears. The rest come with MX-Blacks.

There's also the Razer Black Widow Ultimate, but that was delayed till Thanksgiving.

The XArmor U9BL is another option.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runeazn* 
Oh note,
anybody interested in a OCN esc key,and lives in EU, i am probably going to ship a lot to here if people are interested..

btw,, 2 users, 98 guests ROFL.

Oh I thought you'd changed your mind








Don't think anyone else is interested though..


----------



## shaddix

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Deck Legend Ice or Frost Tactile come with MX-Clears. The rest come with MX-Blacks.

There's also the Razer Black Widow Ultimate, but that was delayed till Thanksgiving.

The XArmor U9BL is another option.

Yeah I was looking at the U9BL as well, I need to fidn some reviews on it. I am having a hard time finding reviews for the deck legend tactiles


----------



## Phaedrus2129

My review is like the fourth result:
http://hardwareaware.com/review/xarmor-u9bl/


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shaddix* 
Yeah I was looking at the U9BL as well, I need to fidn some reviews on it. I am having a hard time finding reviews for the deck legend tactiles

Here is one on the U9BL written by our very own Phaedrus:
http://hardwareaware.com/review/xarmor-u9bl/

Edit: Phaedrus knows exactly when to self promote.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Here is one on the U9BL written by our very own Phaedrus:
http://hardwareaware.com/review/xarmor-u9bl/

Edit: Phaedrus knows exactly when to self promote.

Hell yeah.


----------



## ripster

Hey, look what made it to the top of the

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/do8jq/til_keyboards_are_way_more_advanced_than_i_ever/
 at Reddit!









Quote:

ThirdLap 5 points6 points7 points 22 hours ago[-]

The Mechanical Keyboard thread on OCN is a great introduction. Head on over to Geekhack if you want to learn a ton more about mechanical keyboards.

gonX 1 point2 points3 points 13 hours ago[-]

I agree. The Geekhack Wiki has some really nice content. And this is coming from a frequent user of Overclock.net (=OCN)








Alas, fame is fleeting on the intertoobs so the thread itself is fading into the sunset.


----------



## NeMoD

I have exactly 68.50 left on my prepaid debit card. What keyboard do you guys suggest I get or should I not even bother with the amount I have. I don't have any preference on what switch as any would be an upgrade.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Hey, look what made it to the top of the

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/do8jq/til_keyboards_are_way_more_advanced_than_i_ever/
 at Reddit!










Alas, fame is fleeting on the intertoobs so the thread itself is fading into the sunset.









The geekhack wiki may have more information, but the OCN thread is a little better for the random noob who will just read the first paragraph or two.


----------



## ripster

No disagreements here.

Actually the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide is great! More people interested in mechanical keyboards the better.

Especially the USB ones.


----------



## Norlig

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Especially the USB ones.










Uhm, isnt the PS/2 mechanical keyboards better, due to N-rollover?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pangeltveit* 
Uhm, isnt the PS/2 mechanical keyboards better, due to N-rollover?

Truth be told, it is very unlikely you'll need NKRO. However, most boards seem to either support NKRO or have 2KRO, so go with NKRO and USB







.

There's only one game I can rarely go over the 6 key USB limit on, and if I ever want to play it I can just pop on a USB> ps/2 adapter.


----------



## KipH

ripster was made to watch PS/2 indoctrination videos as a child. Now the mere thought of using such a port makes him break out his LEGOÂ® and build himself a fort.

Here is a link to his webpage for proof.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pangeltveit* 
Uhm, isnt the PS/2 mechanical keyboards better, due to N-rollover?

But you trade off a lot of things. I just updated the USB versus PS/2 wiki here. And while there you might as well check out the brand new "Why DOES so much Gaming stuff have Gold connectors? wiki."

Say, isn't the Mechanical Keyboard Guide about due for a bit of freshening up?


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


But you trade off a lot of things. I just updated the USB versus PS/2 wiki here. And while there you might as well check out the brand new "Why DOES so much Gaming stuff have Gold connectors? wiki."

Say, isn't the Mechanical Keyboard Guide about due for a bit of freshening up?


My post is quoted in the wiki article. I'm famous


----------



## lmnop

ripster you made a wiki article on gold plated USB cables? lol


----------



## ripster

Gold USB connectors reduce latency.









The circle is now complete. Braided keyboard cables to go with my mice.


----------



## KipH

And he linked to lmnop's picture of the LED braided usb cable. So your famous now too.
Now I know what Jedi hair braids are for: They make the medaclorians flow faster!


----------



## lmnop

ripster you put this link in the wiki http://www.overclock.net/10736575-post7828.html but it has nothing to do with the topic really. did you mean to add this one? http://www.overclock.net/10736143-post7811.html


----------



## lmnop

change the font color for "What's With All These Gold Keyboard Cables?" on top of Rooney to red.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

O M G

I miss that guy.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DeltaGunner* 
I ment that i dont really know what switches i should go for. The browns seem to be the most popular, then the blue and then the blacks. But are the Browns more like a old school keyboard thing? I dont want to press too hard. And i dont know, but i think i might like the idea of a clicky feeling when it actuates.

The Cherry MX Blues don't really require that much force to press down at all. Plus, they provide a satisfying mechanical click upon actuation. The "50g" might look make them look like they're a bit stiff, but I can speak from personal experience and say they're quite pleasant to use.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shaddix* 
hueg thread is hueg.
Which is the keyboard of choice for gaming + fast typing? I'm wary of keyboards that require a lot of weight to activate since it seems that would slow me down, but maybe my intuition about that is wrong. I've been looking at the filco majestouch.

The Majestouch is an excellent first mechanical keyboard. It's most certainly better than most mechanical keyboards that are considered to be a good introductory type of board (such as the iOne Scorpius M10). It would kinda be like diving right in and then finding that the water temperature is just perfect.

But since you want something that is good for gaming but also good for fast typing, I recommend something with either the Cherry MX Browns or the Blues.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shaddix* 
Oh I see so that is a non-issue then. Currently have a G11 which I needed for FF11, but since I'm not playing that anymore....... Filco Majestouch cherry brown for me? Or maybe clears?

The Clears are probably fine too, but they require a little bit more force than the Cherry MX Blues. Out of the all of the popular/readily available Cherry MX series switches, the Browns, Blues and Clears are the tactile switches, and the Clears require the most force out of the three.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shaddix* 
****. I think I also want something backlit. Deck legend then?

Do you want something backlit for practical purposes, or just for looks? If it's just for looks, then I would recommend something without backlighting just because it'll allow you to spend less money and still get something really good.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NeMoD* 
I have exactly 68.50 left on my prepaid debit card. What keyboard do you guys suggest I get or should I not even bother with the amount I have. I don't have any preference on what switch as any would be an upgrade.

If you can combine the $68.50 with other money that you might have, then I'd go for it since it may mean that you can still get something that costs $100 or more.

However, I strongly urge you to first figure out which switch type you think that you will like the most. Otherwise, you could end up with a switch type that isn't right for you and then it wouldn't be an upgrade at all. Plus, knowing which switch type you want will make it much easier to pick out a keyboard.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
But you trade off a lot of things. I just updated the USB versus PS/2 wiki here. And while there you might as well check out the brand new "Why DOES so much Gaming stuff have Gold connectors? wiki."

Say, isn't the Mechanical Keyboard Guide about due for a bit of freshening up?

The biggest thing for me is the bios connectivity. Hopefully this will be less of an issue in the future. I currently have my keyboard hooked up with USB and I'm liking it







(did it this way because I plugged in PS2 at first, computer was still on, and it didn't read, so I was like ***!)


----------



## Hayder_Master

hello this is my first post, i like play games so please can u tell me what is best gaming Mechanical Keyboard under 150$, and i will be pleased
thanx


----------



## LarsMarkelson

filco cherry black!


----------



## thisispatrick

I think it depends actually. Blues/Browns/Blacks have all been pretty decent for gaming. I think it may depend on what kind of games you play mostly.


----------



## BigT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hayder_Master* 
hello this is my first post, i like play games so please can u tell me what is best gaming Mechanical Keyboard under 150$, and i will be pleased
thanx

cherry MX Black or Cherry MX red key switches.
for black the filco board is good and the steelseries 6GV2 is good. for reds you would need to get a cherry board of ebay, and you may or may not be able to get one for under $150.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

However if you play mmo's, (for me SC2), Blackwidow will be a great choice for its macro keys.,


----------



## Hayder_Master

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigT*


cherry MX Black or Cherry MX red key switches.
for black the filco board is good and the steelseries 6GV2 is good. for reds you would need to get a cherry board of ebay, and you may or may not be able to get one for under $150.



thanx a lot for replay, but i didn't have much experience with this i will be glad if you can give some links for good deals, ebay-amazon and newegg will be great

thanx


----------



## ripster

For a complete up to date listing of mechanical keyboards by switch with buying links and up to date prices check this.


----------



## KipH

That is a good guide there rip now you torn it








And only one dig at OCN. I would say your best work to date.

I can see you in a hat


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 









Cherry stabilizers are unbreakable.

Yeah, Cherry stabilizers certainly seem more robust to me than Costar stabilizers.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Costar (Cherry), Costar (Alps), iOne (Cherry).

I tried to associate the first elements as keyboard manufacturers and the second elements in parentheses as the applied switch types. I think that's what you supposed to mean, although I'd be more interested about the stabilizers rather than about the switch types.


----------



## shnur

Is there any ways to know if that model is the right one?

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...acture=Metadot

It's about the DAS Ultimate S... looks really intersting.

But it was stated that the DAS 3 has issues with typos. How can I make sure?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shnur* 
Is there any ways to know if that model is the right one?

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...acture=Metadot

It's about the DAS Ultimate S... looks really intersting.

But it was stated that the DAS 3 has issues with typos. How can I make sure?

Because it's on back order.







I mean, they're going to have a fresh shipment in which means that it'll be guaranteed that their new stock will definitely be the Model S as opposed to the older one.

Plus, I think the Das III doesn't have the "Model S" name.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shnur* 
Is there any ways to know if that model is the right one?

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...acture=Metadot

It's about the DAS Ultimate S... looks really intersting.

But it was stated that the DAS 3 has issues with typos. How can I make sure?

NCIX is selling the Das Model S not the Das III.


----------



## Vitaminx

I'm looking to buy a mechanical keyboard. A specific I want it to have is backlit keys. I don't game that much currently because of school but I still do it here and there so it should have some gaming features as well. The ones that were linked in my thread I made the other day were these two:

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/
http://www.xarmor-usa.com/xarmor-u9b...-keyboard.html

Are there any other keyboards that resemble these ones? I want to compare all the ones that I can come across before I make a decision if possible.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vitaminx* 
I'm looking to buy a mechanical keyboard. A specific I want it to have is backlit keys. I don't game that much currently because of school but I still do it here and there so it should have some gaming features as well. The ones that were linked in my thread I made the other day were these two:

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/
http://www.xarmor-usa.com/xarmor-u9b...-keyboard.html

Are there any other keyboards that resemble these ones? I want to compare all the ones that I can come across before I make a decision if possible.

Razer Blackwidow.


----------



## TwoCables

But VitaminX's question is this: can we basically list all the known mechanical keyboards that have backlighting?


----------



## Manyak

This frickin sucks. This past week I've gotten halfway through re-writing the guide _twice_, and I just can't seem to put it in a way that I'm happy with. I'm thinking maybe I should just do an update and just put some finishing touches on and be done with it.


----------



## lmnop

Rome wasn't built in one day. it needs a lot of work. give it to Phaedrus. while your here see this thread.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak*
This frickin sucks. This past week I've gotten halfway through re-writing the guide twice, and I just can't seem to put it in a way that I'm happy with. I'm thinking maybe I should just do an update and just put some finishing touches on and be done with it.

Put it up on Google Docs, invite ripster and phadreus (may have butchered that spelling) and some other qualified folks to make edits/ suggestions, then release here.


----------



## lmnop

Manyak will think of something.


----------



## TwoCables

If I were to get my lazy butt in gear and start working on the OP of this thread, then I can guarantee thorough completion and improvement. But what scares me is that when I start something, I tend to go all the way and it becomes the only thing I can focus on. So I fear that I may end up spending an entire day on nothing else but the first 10 posts of this.

However, I won't start doing anything without any permission.


----------



## ch_123

If people are interested in doing stuff about it, they should write their own versions and put it up somewhere so that it can be seen by others an incorporated into the original guide.


----------



## lmnop

the mechanical keyboard guide needs to be shorter, less images and a new layout. I like the PDF or Google Doc idea.

you have 5 minutes to give someone the cliff notes or coles notes what mechanical keyboards are, history, the advantages and why they should buy one.


----------



## shnur

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
NCIX is selling the Das Model S not the Das III.

Ok, thanks!
I'll probably order one soon... I had the BlackWidow in mind, but a lot of people seem to insist that browns VS blues are better for gaming.
The lack of any writting solves the issue of any backliting


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
the mechanical keyboard guide needs to be shorter, less images and a new layout. I like the PDF or Google Doc idea.

you have 5 minutes to give someone the cliff notes or coles notes what mechanical keyboards are, history, the advantages and why they should buy one.

This.

If I were to redo it, then I bet that I would end up trying to find a way to summarize the entire thing so that the first thing somebody sees is a post that explains why a mechanical keyboard might be better as well as whether or not it's worth their money (so I'd include that explanation of _"if you only use your computer like 30 minutes per day, then you may not even care about the difference"_)

I would like to change it so that if somebody reads the first post, then they will not have to ask why they should consider getting a mechanical keyboard or ask if it's even worth their time _considering_ one.


----------



## Ekemeister

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
the mechanical keyboard guide needs to be shorter, less images and a new layout. I like the PDF or Google Doc idea.

you have 5 minutes to give someone the cliff notes or coles notes what mechanical keyboards are, history, the advantages and why they should buy one.

Or you can just learn to power read and bust through his amazing article in 5 minutes.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shnur* 
Ok, thanks!
I'll probably order one soon... I had the BlackWidow in mind, but a lot of people seem to insist that browns VS blues are better for gaming.
The lack of any writting solves the issue of any backliting









so you want Cherry MX Brown with Blanks?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ekemeister* 
Or you can just learn to power read and bust through his amazing article in 5 minutes.

She basically means that when trying to sell something to someone, you basically have 5 minutes. This guide is trying to sell people on mechanical keyboards, but it currently takes longer than 5 minutes to do that.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
She basically means that when trying to sell something to someone, you basically have 5 minutes. This guide is trying to sell people on mechanical keyboards, but it currently takes longer than 5 minutes to do that.

I dunno, I can read the whole thing in 2 mins easy.

The problem is that there's no direction, it's just a lump of information.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
I dunno, I can read the whole thing in 2 mins easy.

The problem is that there's no direction, it's just a lump of information.

It takes longer than 5 minutes to sell people on the idea of mechanical keyboards.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ekemeister* 
Or you can just learn to power read and bust through his amazing article in 5 minutes.

I was happy with the original Mechanical Keyboard Guide and it's revisions but he changed it. it went from Beginners to Advanced by borrowing, copying (with permission). many people link the mechanical keyboard guide in peripheral threads but they don't always read it. it's large and intimidating because the people reading the Mechanical Keyboard Guide know nothing about keyboards except how to operate them. I barely understand it. if people are interested in learning about Keyboard Matrix, USB or PS/2, Printing, Reviews, etc they can sign up at geekhack to learn about them. at OCN we increase mechanical keyboard awareness, help people and talk about mechanical keyboards.


----------



## Little Overclocker/Gamer

This thread has like 1 post every 2-5 minutes.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I was happy with the original Mechanical Keyboard Guide and it's revisions but he changed it. it went from Beginners to Advanced by borrowing, copying (with permission). many people link the mechanical keyboard guide in peripheral threads but they don't always read it. it's large and intimidating because the people reading the Mechanical Keyboard Guide know nothing about keyboards except how to operate them. I barely understand it. if people are interested in learning about Keyboard Matrix, USB or PS/2, Printing, Reviews, etc they can sign up at geekhack to learn about them. at OCN we increase mechanical keyboard awareness, help people and talk about mechanical keyboards.

The only things borrowed/copied are the pictures, because I don't have the camera - or all the keyboards listed there - to do it myself.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little Overclocker/Gamer* 
This thread has like 1 post every 2-5 minutes.

Sometimes, yes. But not always. I've seen this thread go without a single post in a 24-hour period before.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I dunno, I can read the whole thing in 2 mins easy.

The problem is that there's no direction, it's just a lump of information.


Then try some Spoiler tags.

More complex information can be placed into Spoiler tags so that those who still wish to get the full barrage of info may do so, while those who just want the jist of it can also do so. Win/Win

It will allow you to give more directionality to the "Lump" of information as you put it.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


if people are interested in learning about Keyboard Matrix, USB or PS/2, Printing, Reviews, etc they can sign up at geekhack to learn about them.


Please send over only the ones with a sense of humor.


----------



## KipH

Hey! get over here and vote for our boy!
But ugly or beauty on the side no one can see 

PS. Vote for #8: Phaedrus2129


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I was happy with the original Mechanical Keyboard Guide and it's revisions but he changed it. it went from Beginners to Advanced by borrowing, copying (with permission). many people link the mechanical keyboard guide in peripheral threads but they don't always read it. it's large and intimidating because the people reading the Mechanical Keyboard Guide know nothing about keyboards except how to operate them. I barely understand it. if people are interested in learning about Keyboard Matrix, USB or PS/2, Printing, Reviews, etc they can sign up at geekhack to learn about them. at OCN we increase mechanical keyboard awareness, help people and talk about mechanical keyboards.

I have to disagree there. With my first couple times on here, I thought it was an easy read. It took me about ten minutes to get through it all, but it's nothing too difficult to get through. I actually like how detailed he was, and it saved me from asking a "Which switch/keyboard?" question since I felt well-informed enough after reading to make that choice on my own (and I think I did fairly well).

If you're worried about the sheer size of the guide though, why not a quick synopsis on the first post? In academia, most research papers have a synopsis that summarizes the information in quick, general nuggets and the reader can choose to read on in further detail if interested. Something similar can be implimented for the Mechanical Keyboard Guide, I think.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d* 
I have to disagree there. With my first couple times on here, I thought it was an easy read. It took me about ten minutes to get through it all, but it's nothing too difficult to get through. I actually like how detailed he was, and it saved me from asking a "Which switch/keyboard?" question since I felt well-informed enough after reading to make that choice on my own (and I think I did fairly well).

If you're worried about the sheer size of the guide though, why not a quick synopsis on the first post? In academia, most research papers have a synopsis that summarizes the information in quick, general nuggets and the reader can choose to read on in further detail if interested. Something similar can be implimented for the Mechanical Keyboard Guide, I think.

I had the same experience you did my first time reading this guide, but the majority are nowhere near that patient. Most of them see the size and either end up staying with rubber domes, or they'll ignore the entire OP and just post their question that would have been answered by reading the OP.

Most people today are used to getting exactly what they want in an extremely short amount of time. We have fast internet connections, fast computers, fast food, fast Self Checkouts at the grocery store, faster speed limits, more powerful microwaves, etc. People these days are nearly incapable of slowing down and reading the OP of this guide so that all they have to do is start a discussion asking for just a little bit of guidance or reassurance.

Plus, I think most people are so busy with work or school (or both) that it feels next to impossible to spend 15-20 minutes reading the OP of this thread and only have time to quickly jump in and post a question and then go do something else since they only have 5-6 hours to play with between getting home and going to bed.

When I worked full time, I would get home at around 5:30, and then go to sleep at around 11. I always felt like I could never "stop to smell the roses". So I think it's good timing that this guide is probably going to be redone to hopefully be easier to digest.


----------



## fssbzz

post some direct youtube video link for how switches sounds write helps alot too.
actually i started into the mech kb when i click on the Hothardware link and watch the video.
then.."OMG, they sound so nice, the feels very nice by just watching and listening to the sound"


----------



## ch_123

Even as someone well versed in the different flavors of mechanical switch, and how they work, I think the guide would be better served by more snappy chunks of pertinent information - I'm thinking brief description, some good points, and some potential downsides. I'd actually do out some examples if I get the chance.


----------



## shaddix

Problem with a huge thread like this is, there's often lot's of information uncovered later in the thread that is relevant to the op, but never gets posted there. For example, one may read and decide the cherry blue switches are what they need, and pick a keyboard, but then later come to find out there's some bug/defect with the model keyboard they chose. But if they had read the entire 800 page thread, they would have known about it and made a better decision. So usually when a thread is massive like this, it is better to just ask since there are many folks that have read the whole thing and won't mind helping you out.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shaddix* 
Problem with a huge thread like this is, there's often lot's of information uncovered later in the thread that is relevant to the op, but never gets posted there. For example, one may read and decide the cherry blue switches are what they need, and pick a keyboard, but then later come to find out there's some bug/defect with the model keyboard they chose. But if they had read the entire 800 page thread, they would have known about it and made a better decision. So usually when a thread is massive like this, it is better to just ask since there are many folks that have read the whole thing and won't mind helping you out.

Manyak knows information changes. it wouldn't be a problem if he updated the mechanical keyboard guide.


----------



## Ennea

How would someone from NA get their hands on a Ducky? And how are they these days (Ducky Keyboards)?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ennea*


How would someone from NA get their hands on a Ducky? And how are they these days (Ducky Keyboards)?


Gotta make a deal with someone that lives in Asia.


----------



## thisispatrick

Yeah you're going to have to get someone else to buy it for you or go there yourself.
I'm waiting for my mom to go and come back from her business trip so she can pick up one of these babies for me.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ennea* 
How would someone from NA get their hands on a Ducky? And how are they these days (Ducky Keyboards)?

sign up at geekhack.org and message a member named imsto.


----------



## 7h3kk1d

So I'm a programmer but also a competitive tetris player so I know I want black or brown switches. I think brown might be a good compromise for my uses. SO i was thinking the das keyboard silent ultimate. any thoughts?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Not a bad choice at all.


----------



## 7h3kk1d

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Not a bad choice at all.

thanks also I just found out they have an educational discount since I'm a college student so it's a good price at about 100 bucks


----------



## calavera

whats so great about ducky keyboards?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *calavera* 
whats so great about ducky keyboards?

Ducky and Filco are manufactured by Costar however there are differences.

Ducky Keyboards come in 87, 104 and 108 layouts.
Ducky 104 and 108 layouts have three features: (F9) Windows Lock, (F10) Caps Lock/Ctrl swap, (F11) Windows/Alt swap
Ducky 104 and 108 layouts have Media Keys
Ducky 108 layout has Hot Keys
Ducky uses Cherry stabilizers instead of Costar stabilizers
Ducky has a detachable USB cable.
Ducky has a variety of Keycaps available
Ducky is cheaper


----------



## ch_123

Lasered black-on-black keycaps are quite nice.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *7h3kk1d* 
So I'm a programmer but also a competitive tetris player so I know I want black or brown switches. I think brown might be a good compromise for my uses.

Brown should be better....

I couldn't do tetris on my MX black keyboard... It's great for what I play (FPS), but I wouldn't trust tetris on this...


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *De-Zant* 
Brown should be better....

I couldn't do tetris on my MX black keyboard... It's great for what I play (FPS), but I wouldn't trust tetris on this...

Those are browns...


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Those are browns...

I know...

Maybe I didn't structure my post as well as I should've...

E: Removed the part of the quote that I didn't intend to comment on... Happy?


----------



## KipH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *7h3kk1d* 
So I'm a programmer but also a competitive tetris player so I know I want black or brown switches. I think brown might be a good compromise for my uses. SO i was thinking the das keyboard silent ultimate. any thoughts?

What! You get payed to play that. Nice









Hows that work?


----------



## gordesky1

Just ordered the XArmor lastnight







Even tho i got the black widow on preorder lol But i couldn't wait any longer for a new mech so i ordered the Xarmor for now, And i could use more mechs sense i cant stand rubber domes lol.

Does anyone know How long it takes Xarmor too ship? Hopefully i have it by the weekend i got it with 3 day shipping.


----------



## 7h3kk1d

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
What! You get payed to play that. Nice









Hows that work?

Competitive not professional


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shaddix* 
Problem with a huge thread like this is, there's often lot's of information uncovered later in the thread that is relevant to the op, but never gets posted there. For example, one may read and decide the cherry blue switches are what they need, and pick a keyboard, but then later come to find out there's some bug/defect with the model keyboard they chose. But if they had read the entire 800 page thread, they would have known about it and made a better decision. So usually when a thread is massive like this, it is better to just ask since there are many folks that have read the whole thing and won't mind helping you out.

This an *excellent* point. I mean, yes we can totally rework the OP and make it way better, but people are still going to prefer just posting a question for people who've been in this thread since about the beginning.

Therefore, it definitely makes sense to relax on the OP a bit and just update it while simultaneously making it better without going overboard.

In other words, this is a great point and it makes updating the OP much less overwhelming.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *7h3kk1d* 
So I'm a programmer but also a competitive tetris player so I know I want black or brown switches. I think brown might be a good compromise for my uses. SO i was thinking the das keyboard silent ultimate. any thoughts?

Forgive me for the off-topic question, but I haven't yet heard about playing Tetris on the PC. I'm a little bit interested, so how can I get in on the action? I mean, should I just go to http://www.tetris.com/ and click "Play tetris now"?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Ducky and Filco are manufactured by Costar however there are differences.

Ducky Keyboards come in 87, 104 and 108 layouts.
Ducky 104 and 108 layouts have three features: (F9) Windows Lock, (F10) Caps Lock/Ctrl swap, (F11) Windows/Alt swap
Ducky 104 and 108 layouts have Media Keys
Ducky 108 layout has Hot Keys
Ducky uses Cherry stabilizers instead of Costar stabilizers
Ducky has a detachable USB cable.
Ducky has a variety of Keycaps available
Ducky is cheaper

Does the Ducky have a better key printing method too?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gordesky1* 
Just ordered the XArmor lastnight







Even tho i got the black widow on preorder lol But i couldn't wait any longer for a new mech so i ordered the Xarmor for now, And i could use more mechs sense i cant stand rubber domes lol.

Does anyone know How long it takes Xarmor too ship? Hopefully i have it by the weekend i got it with 3 day shipping.

If they ship it today, then you should get it on Friday. But if they ship it tomorrow, then there's a chance that it would arrive on Monday.


----------



## 7h3kk1d

Quote:

Forgive me for the off-topic question, but I haven't yet heard about playing Tetris on the PC. I'm a little bit interested, so how can I get in on the action? I mean, should I just go to http://www.tetris.com/ and click "Play tetris now"?
Pretty much, yes. www.tetrisfriends.com is the site where I play but they have other places such as blockbox and a few java clients. If you want to learn more about the competitive tetris scene hit up www.harddrop.com


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *7h3kk1d* 
Pretty much, yes. www.tetrisfriends.com is the site where I play but they have other places such as blockbox and a few java clients. If you want to learn more about the competitive tetris scene hit up www.harddrop.com

Whoa, thank you!


----------



## Bullveyr




----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Does the Ducky have a better key printing method too?

As I pointed out above, lasered black-on-black. I think they do lasered white-on-black, but it seems in most cases that that is as bad as pad printing.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
As I pointed out above, lasered black-on-black. I think they do lasered white-on-black, but it seems in most cases that that is as bad as pad printing.

As you pointed out above? I thought you were just saying it to say it (you didn't have a quote in your post that you were replying to). I didn't know you were saying that the Ducky board's keys are laser-etched.

To be honest, I thought you were talking about the Topre Realforce boards and were just being enthusiastic.


----------



## ch_123

Topre keys are dye sub'd black on charcoal grey. I think I'd be doing them a great disservice if I was describing them as lasered black-on-black.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Topre keys are dye sub'd black on charcoal grey. I think I'd be doing them a great disservice if I was describing them as lasered black-on-black.

I wasn't trying to find out what their key printing method is. I was just saying that when you said "As I pointed out above", it made it look like you were trying to say that I should have known the answer to my question based on that post. So I was saying that the post you're referring to above is very unclear. That's why I said that I thought you were talking about the- Topre Realforce boards. I mean, all you said was _"Lasered black-on-black keycaps are quite nice."_ But now if you had actually quoted Christine's post, then I would not have ignored your post.

Does it make sense now? It is very important to use the Quote feature.

Anyway, I guess I'm glad that I got my answer. Although I would have just said _"They're laser-etched, and they also offer black laser-etching too"._


----------



## ch_123

I don't bother quoting the post when the post is right above me. I don't see many people doing the same thing either, so I guess I'm not alone in this. I guess that it's obvious that people tend to be referring to the general flow of the conversation in such scenarios, especially when there was mention of keycap types in the the post right above me. Sure, I could have spelled it out by saying something like "Ducky keyboards also have lasered keycaps", but to me, that would just be laboring the point...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
I don't bother quoting the post when the post is right above me. I don't see many people doing the same thing either, so I guess I'm not alone in this. I guess that it's obvious that people tend to be referring to the general flow of the conversation in such scenarios, especially when there was mention of keycap types in the the post right above me. Sure, I could have spelled it out by saying something like "Ducky keyboards also have lasered keycaps", but to me, that would just be laboring the point...

If you had Quoted her post, then I would not have had to ask. What you said was completely unclear to me that you were responding to her post by saying that you like Ducky's key printing. Therefore, I ignored it. When I read it the first time, just shrugged my shoulders and thought _"Wow. That's fascinating. Thanks for sharing."_

The Quote feature is there for a reason. Please use it and stop assuming that people can read your mind. Or alternatively, make it absolutely clear who's post you're replying to. Just because it's the very next post, it doesn't make it obvious that it's a direct reply to the one above it; especially when you say something vague like you did.

Or hey, you could have just answered me like this: _"They use laser-etching and they also offer black-on-black laser etching"_ instead of being rude and saying, _"As I pointed out above..."_ Good grief, man.


----------



## thiru

Or you could both drop this.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Or you could both drop this.

I don't take crap from anyone - I don't care who they are.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Or you could both drop this.

I think this is a very good idea! The points you're both trying to make could be made in a single sentence. Not multiple paragraphs


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
I think this is a very good idea! The points you're both trying to make could be made in a single sentence. Not multiple paragraphs









I prefer to try to put people in their place when they ask for it. We're a damn community; there's absolutely no reason to rudely start off with "As I pointed out above".


----------



## W4LNUT5

At some point however it needs to die.

Thiru and I argue on vent over the stupidest things, but at some point we have to drop it and move on. Continuing it is doing nothing productive.


----------



## j0n3z3y

To break up the current flow.







I purchased a Das Model S Professional Silent just last night.







No more p.o.s. G11


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *j0n3z3y* 
To break up the current flow.







I purchased a Das Model S Professional Silent just last night.







No more p.o.s. G11























Wow. Now that's what I call an upgrade! Congratulations!


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I don't take crap from anyone - I don't care who they are.

You have this funny habit of acting as if the world has organized some sort of massive conspiracy against you. Calm down, it's the internet...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
You have this funny habit of acting as if the world has organized some sort of massive conspiracy against you. Calm down, it's the internet...

Oh please don't tell me to calm down. Telling people to calm down never works.

It's not my fault you decided to be rude by starting off that post with _"As I pointed out above"._ It's like _who cares? So what? Can't you just answer my question?_


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Telling people to calm down never works.

Neither does answering rudeness with rudeness. I can count on ONE hand the number of times I did that, and even then I was coherent and logical to keep myself posting out of pure frustration. You might say it's "feeding the trolls" but it's just senseless bickering, not trolling. Yet.


----------



## j0n3z3y

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Wow. Now that's what I call an upgrade! Congratulations!

Thank you kind sir


----------



## karazi

Just picked up a Rosewill Cherry MX, and my only regret is that I haven't discovered mechanical keyboards up until now. It is fantastic. Anyway, this thing is USB and I found two old green microsoft USB to PS/2 adapters, they have a tiny mouse icon near the PS/2 side so I am not sure if they are only for mice or what. I tried them both and neither seem to work in the keyboard or mouse PS/2 slot, meanwhile USB works just fine. Should it work with the adapter right out of the box or is there something I have to do? Thanks a lot!!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
Neither does answering rudeness with rudeness. I can count on ONE hand the number of times I did that, and even then I was coherent and logical to keep myself posting out of pure frustration. You might say it's "feeding the trolls" but it's just senseless bickering, not trolling. Yet.

Tell me something: how does it make you feel when somebody starts off a post with _"As I posted above", or "As I already said", or "As I pointed out above"_ when you purposely ignored the post they are referring to because it looks completely random to you?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karazi* 
Just picked up a Rosewill Cherry MX, and my only regret is that I haven't discovered mechanical keyboards up until now. It is fantastic. Anyway, this thing is USB and I found two old green microsoft USB to PS/2 adapters, they have a tiny mouse icon near the PS/2 side so I am not sure if they are only for mice or what. I tried them both and neither seem to work in the keyboard or mouse PS/2 slot, meanwhile USB works just fine. Should it work with the adapter right out of the box or is there something I have to do? Thanks a lot!!

Unfortunately, it will only work with purple USB to PS/2 adapters. :/ But this is the way it is for all keyboards that support USB to PS/2.


----------



## j0n3z3y

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Unfortunately, it will only work with purple USB to PS/2 adapters. :/ But this is the way it is for all keyboards that support USB to PS/2.









Ouch, needz a new adapter nao! Thanks for the info


----------



## karazi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Unfortunately, it will only work with purple USB to PS/2 adapters. :/ But this is the way it is for all keyboards that support USB to PS/2.

Thanks so much for the info. If there is a particularly good source for these please let me know, otherwise ebay will be hearing from me shortly. Thanks so much. I love typing. OK I'm done.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *j0n3z3y* 







Ouch, needz a new adapter nao! Thanks for the info









You're welcome!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karazi* 
Thanks so much for the info. If there is a particularly good source for these please let me know, otherwise ebay will be hearing from me shortly. Thanks so much. I love typing. OK I'm done.

Well, the one below is good, but I would only buy it at the same time as something else (such as the Rosewill RK-9000 keyboard) just because of the cost of shipping!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812200349


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Tell me something: how does it make you feel when somebody starts off a post with _"As I posted above", or "As I already said", or "As I pointed out above"_ when you purposely ignored the post they are referring to because it looks completely random to you?

It doesn't affect my attitude, really. I've learned through experience that you're better off politely addressing every point in the post than picking what you specifically don't like and arguing about that. MAJOR flamewars start that way.

If they keep going back and repeating questions that you've already answered to rile you up, ignore them; if they genuinely did not see your response, respond again the way you would have if you hadn't already.

If you don't want to just drop it but you're going off topic, take it to PM.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
It doesn't affect my attitude, really. I've learned through experience that you're better off politely addressing every point in the post than picking what you specifically don't like and arguing about that. MAJOR flamewars start that way.

If they keep going back and repeating questions that you've already answered to rile you up, ignore them; if they genuinely did not see your response, respond again the way you would have if you hadn't already.

I saw the post he was referring to when he said _"As I pointed out above"_. I saw it when he originally posted it. I ignored it and blew it off as a random post because it doesn't look relevant to the conversation. It just looks like he was sitting there and just couldn't contain himself and decided to express his love for black-on-black laser-etching. So yeah, that's why I blew it off.

And so then I decided to ask Christine what Ducky's key printing methods are. I mean, she didn't include it in her list. But then I get that rude response from ch_123 starting off with _"As I pointed out above"_. It's like he was bothered by the fact that I asked that question - almost as if he was trying to show me that I should have known the answer because he already mentioned it (which again, his post _still_ looks random to me even though I now know that it's a reply to Christine in regard's to Ducky's keyboards). It's like _Dude, can't you just answer the question without being rude about it?_

If it were me answering the question, and if that were my random-looking post, then I would have just went _"They have laser-etching and even offer black-on-black laser etching!"_. I wouldn't have made a reference to my earlier post by saying _"As I pointed out above"_ because that is just plain rude. It's like _Who cares? Just answer it. It's not a big deal._


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
And so then I decided to ask Christine what Ducky's key printing methods are. I mean, she didn't include it in her list. But then I get that rude response from ch_123 starting off with _"As I pointed out above"_. It's like he was bothered by the fact that I asked that question - almost as if he was trying to show me that I should have known the answer because he already mentioned it (which again, his post _still_ looks random to me even though I now know that it's a reply to Christine in regard's to Ducky's keyboards).

When people get condescending like that, don't address the actual aspect of the post, only the information; that's why I said it doesn't work to address rudeness with rudeness. If the aspect of the post is more prominent than the information, ignore the post completely. TBH it seems like the more knowledgeable GH members that migrate here, the more they think they can talk down to those that don't know better. Yet instead of doing that at GH where you'd expect, they take an off topic point in their threads and use that to (often humorously) completely derail the threads about topics that often have nothing to do with keyboards, or even computer hardware/peripherals in general.

*Since this isn't GeekHack,* and since therefore GH rules aren't present here, you have to show more respect or you're just going to make enemies you never wanted to make.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
When people get condescending like that, don't address the actual aspect of the post, only the information; that's why I said it doesn't work to address rudeness with rudeness. If the aspect of the post is more prominent than the information, ignore the post completely. TBH it seems like the more knowledgeable GH members that migrate here, the more they think they can talk down to those that don't know better. Yet instead of doing that at GH where you'd expect, they take an off topic point in their threads and use that to (often humorously) completely derail the threads about topics that often have nothing to do with keyboards, or even computer hardware/peripherals in general.

*Since this isn't GeekHack,* and since therefore GH rules aren't present here, you have to show more respect or you're just going to make enemies you never wanted to make.

I can normally tolerate it when the person is justified in saying something like _"As I pointed out above"_, but it wasn't justified this time. Plus, I refuse to take crap like that from anyone, so I decided to make sure he didn't get away with it.

Luckily for him, I don't hold grudges and therefore he has not made an enemy out of me.


----------



## Maytan

I must say, this is one of the dumbest arguments I have ever seen. All because someone said something pertaining to the likes of _As pointed out above_?

This is quite childish.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I can normally tolerate it when the person is justified in saying something like _"As I pointed out above"_, but it wasn't justified this time. Plus, I refuse to take crap like that from anyone, so I decided to make sure he didn't get away with it.

Then be the bigger man and at the very least *pretend* you have something more valuable on which to waste your time. If you aren't gonna take his crap, don't give him more to talk about; that just means at some point he'll try to give you more crap. If he isn't going to improve his behavior, put him on your ignore list.

'course at some point gonX is going to clean this again, so at least until then try to take things a bit less seriously.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I must say, this is one of the dumbest arguments I have ever seen. All because someone said something pertaining to the likes of _As pointed out above_?

This is quite childish.

It's not only because he said that. Follow it from the beginning. I don't want to get in trouble for explaining it.

If you don't want to do that, then just nevermind. I almost never act like this, so you know there's a good reason for it if I do.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
Then be the bigger man and at the very least *pretend* you have something more valuable on which to waste your time. If you aren't gonna take his crap, don't give him more to talk about; that just means at some point he'll try to give you more crap. If he isn't going to improve his behavior, put him on your ignore list.

'course at some point gonX is going to clean this again, so at least until then try to take things a bit less seriously.

I doubt he'll try it again because now he knows what the result will be.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
It's not only because he said that. Follow it from the beginning. I don't want to get in trouble for explaining it.

If you don't want to do that, then just nevermind. I almost never act like this, so you know there's a good reason for it if I do.

Listen, I've nothing against you; but I HAVE read through this argument. I found nothing that should have been even remotely offensive to anyone.


----------



## thisispatrick

Read through everything.
My simple reply:Are you overly emotional? Take a quiz now!

Edit: Not trying to take a side here or anything but seriously, its the internet...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Listen, I've nothing against you; but I HAVE read through this argument. I found nothing that should have been even remotely offensive to anyone.

Because it didn't happen to you.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Because it didn't happen to you.

I assure you, none of this would have offended me.

I've had people say much worse things to me on the Internet, or even during work/school. I personally fail to realize the significance.

_Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never harm me._

A tired and overused phrase, I know. However, it's quite fitting in many situations these days.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I assure you, none of this would have offended me.

I've had people say much worse things to me on the Internet, or even during work/school. I personally fail to realize the significance.

_Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never harm me._

A tired and overused phrase, I know. However, it's quite fitting in many situations these days.

But we are two different people. You aren't me and so it would be unfair of me to expect you to really understand. Or anyone, for that matter.


----------



## thisispatrick

I vote that you guys carry on this silly quarrel privately. This is getting out of hand.


----------



## BigT

so anyway, the steelseries 7g is the best mechanical keyboard ever. just throwing that little fact out there.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But we are two different people. You aren't me and so it would be unfair of me to expect you to really understand. Or anyone, for that matter.

Fair enough, but my level of understanding does not change the fact that this argument was unwarranted.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigT* 
so anyway, the steelseries 7g is the best mechanical keyboard ever. just throwing that little fact out there.

Well you see, there are many other companies which produce keyboards with assortments of Cherry switches. You would have to judge them all equally before you decide Steelseries' is the best.
promoting discussions once again...


----------



## wontonforevuh

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigT*


so anyway, the steelseries 7g is the best mechanical keyboard ever. just throwing that little *opinion* out there.


fixed it for ya


----------



## Phaedrus2129




----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


pic


Hotlink fail.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

fixed


----------



## KipH

Did everyone vote for Phaedrus2129 in that ugly PC case contest? I think this hot-link fail is a good time to remind about it









Remember: to er is human, to really mess it up you need a human and a computer.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


Did everyone vote for Phaedrus2129 in that ugly PC case contest? I think this hot-link fail is a good time to remind about it









Remember: to er is human, to really mess it up you need a human and a computer.


Nope, his wasn't that ugly compared to the others.


----------



## BigT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wontonforevuh*


fixed it for ya


LOL, i was just trying to change the topic, get people talking about mechanical keyboards again. it is my favourite keyboard tho. for the time being that is. i am a input hore. but for the time my 7g is my baby, and it even allows me to turn on my computer with the power on by ps2 keyboard feature. another advantage to ps2!! my computer is like 5 feet away....


----------



## fssbzz

probably the craziest mechanical gaming keyboard i see in my life


































































































Original Source:
http://article.pchome.net/content-1191968-1.html

Translated Source:
http://translate.google.com/translat...1191968-1.html


----------



## Tator Tot

Hey look it's a Microsoft Sidewinder.... oh wait no it's not. 
Seriously does remind me of a Sidewinder though. Looks awesome too.


----------



## fssbzz

watch the video..lol..i think it is just crazy..and probably perfect if it is plate mounted + NKRO


----------



## squarebox

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


watch the video..lol..i think it is just crazy..and probably perfect if it is plate mounted + NKRO


Was about to post it here but i went out for lunch...
btw fssbzz, i'm undarken from vr forums...

looks like my post got stolen


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *squarebox*


Was about to post it as i went out for lunch...
fssbzz, i'm undarken from vr forums...

looks like my post got stolen










hey! nice to meet u here!
hehe is urs in Vr-zone. very nice fine..very fully detailed article...sorry to stole ur post


----------



## Tator Tot

I watched the Video, it just doesn't really help much cause I can't speak (or hardly understand) any of the Asian languages & Dialects.


----------



## j0n3z3y

If Saitek made mechanicals....that would be it. The only thing missing is the pretty christmas lights









Offtopic/ I'm so anxious, I should've paid for next day air on the Das







Is it just me, or does anyone else feel funky refering to a keyboard as "the The"? lol!


----------



## squarebox

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I watched the Video, it just doesn't really help much cause I can't speak (or hardly understand) any of the Asian languages & Dialects.


I can barely communicate in chinese and only read primary 3 standard(grade 3)...
Chinese is my second language... But my family speaks english so *meh*...

The video is explaining the features in this order:
- Adjustable 6 button module
- 2 Extra USB ports(top facing)
- Numpad is detachable (with calculator key)
- Black Cherry MX
- Water-resistant
- Back-litted 5 Marco keys
- Volume Knob
- Numpad is detachable (with calculator key) again

How to make a Mechanical Keyboard more industrial?
Create the Dearmo GA9.

Simply crazy...
What next Mechanical Keyboard which can withstand being run over by a car/truck/bus/bulldozer/18-wheeler?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


probably the craziest mechanical gaming keyboard i see in my life

http://img.article.pchome.net/00/47/81/77/HL100107.JPG/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.article.pchome.net/00/47/81/77/HL100010.JPG/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.article.pchome.net/00/47/81/77/HL100011.JPG/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.article.pchome.net/00/47/81/77/HL100013.JPG/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.article.pchome.net/00/47/81/77/HL100016.JPG/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.article.pchome.net/00/47/81/77/HL100019.JPG/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.article.pchome.net/00/47/81/77/HL100017.JPG/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.article.pchome.net/00/47/81/77/HL100102.JPG/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.article.pchome.net/00/47/81/77/HL100099.JPG/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.article.pchome.net/00/47/81/77/HL100043.JPG/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.article.pchome.net/00/47/81/77/HL100056.JPG/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.article.pchome.net/00/47/81/77/HL100199.JPG/IMG]

Original Source:
[URL=http://article.pchome.net/content-1191968-1.html]http://article.pchome.net/content-1191968-1.html[/URL]

Translated Source:
[URL=http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Farticle.pchome.net%2Fcontent-1191968-1.html]http://translate.google.com/translat...1191968-1.html[/URL]

[MEDIA=youtube]22gwlJQ5TyI[/MEDIA]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I like and want very much, except for the black switches. I would prefer blue. Thanks for posting that; definitely looks very interesting and would be a great gaming keyboard for SC2 and MMORPGs.

Side note:

CUT THEM NAILS YOU ASIAN FREAK


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I like and want very much, except for the black switches. I would prefer blue. Thanks for posting that; definitely looks very interesting and would be a great gaming keyboard for SC2 and MMORPGs.

Side note:

CUT THEM NAILS YOU ASIAN FREAK


actually thanks to squarebox. undarken from VR-zone.. Credit to him


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigT* 
LOL, i was just trying to change the topic, get people talking about mechanical keyboards again. it is my favourite keyboard tho. for the time being that is. i am a input hore. but for the time my 7g is my baby, and it even allows me to turn on my computer with the power on by ps2 keyboard feature. another advantage to ps2!! my computer is like 5 feet away....

Using my Logitech DiNovo I wake up my HTPC in my wiring closet downstairs through a bluetooth dongle in a USB port. Accesses the BIOS fine as long as your motherboard isn't ancient.

Can't do that with PS/2 because well.....nobody designs anything for PS/2 anymore except for an ever diminishing number of Gaming Keyboard manufacturers.

Steelseries claims they use PS/2 for reduced latencies just like those Gold USB connectors - bwahahahahahaha!


----------



## Bullveyr

That Dearmo GA9 thing just looks crazy.

I like the concept of a detachable numpad because it can give me more "mousing space" just like my Filco tenkeyless.
Unfortunately the design of Dearmo GA9 makes it unnecessarily big, so even with an unatched numpad it is't as compact as it should be.

That extra pad is imho a pretty good idea.

Overall I find it much more appealing than a BlackWidow.


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
Did everyone vote for Phaedrus2129 in that ugly PC case contest? I think this hot-link fail is a good time to remind about it









Remember: to er is human, to really mess it up you need a human and a computer.

nope link me


----------



## Maytan

Hey, anyone with a buckling spring board; I've a question. I still want to buy a Unicomp, but I'm still worried about the noise. I love it, but other people don't always share my enthusiasm for keyboards. Would you say they're loud enough to disrupt a sleeping person? That's honestly my biggest concern.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Hey, anyone with a buckling spring board; I've a question. I still want to buy a Unicomp, but I'm still worried about the noise. I love it, but other people don't always share my enthusiasm for keyboards. Would you say they're loud enough to disrupt a sleeping person? That's honestly my biggest concern.

How far away is this person sleeping? Right near the computer or a room away?
Heavy sleeper/Light sleeper?


----------



## lmnop

Buckling Spring are loud. order the Unicomp already before I get violent.


----------



## v193r

does anyone actually use the end, home, pause, ins, pg up and pg down buttons?


----------



## Crazy9000

I use pg up and down all the time.


----------



## lmnop

me too.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
How far away is this person sleeping? Right near the computer or a room away?
Heavy sleeper/Light sleeper?









Well, lemme draw something in paint.










(excuse the awfulness, I'm on a track pad)

The red 'x' is the room that the person is sleeping in. The door is usually closed, but not always.

Oh, and to add, the person isn't really in any tier of heavy/light sleeping. His sensitivity changes all the time...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Buckling Spring are loud. order the Unicomp already before I get violent.

Hey, hey, no need to get violent. I'm just a _weeeee-bit_ indecisive.


----------



## lmnop

the house I lived in when I was a child had a basement the size of a public basketball court plus a large laundry room, large rec room, large bedroom. you could hear my Model M from the top of the stairs.

you suck at drawing!


----------



## klaxian

What is the least expensive mechanical with MX Brown (or white) switches and where could I purchase it? This is for a friend with a budget of no more than $80. The tactile feel and longevity are most important. I checked out Filco and Das, but they seem too expensive unless you guys know of a better place to purchase them. Any suggestions? Thanks!


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
you suck at drawing!

I know.









Well then, that IS pretty loud. I still want one, though. My best solution is to just keep two keyboards, but it feels like such a waste when there's so many other things I'd like to buy.


----------



## Tator Tot

$3 over, but I-Rocks KR6320


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *klaxian* 
What is the least expensive mechanical with MX Brown (or white) switches and where could I purchase it? This is for a friend with a budget of no more than $80. The tactile feel and longevity are most important. I checked out Filco and Das, but they seem too expensive unless you guys know of a better place to purchase them. Any suggestions? Thanks!

Compaq MX-11800

i-Rocks KR-6230


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I use pg up and down all the time.

for wat? i just use the arrow keys to go down. i hardly ever need to go down an entire page.


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
for wat? i just use the arrow keys to go down. i hardly ever need to go down an entire page.

documents, compiler, browsing.


----------



## ripster

The new Geekhack Mechanical Keyboard Guide is up.

As ever, comments welcome (there that is).


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *klaxian* 
What is the least expensive mechanical with MX Brown (or white) switches and where could I purchase it? This is for a friend with a budget of no more than $80. The tactile feel and longevity are most important. I checked out Filco and Das, but they seem too expensive unless you guys know of a better place to purchase them. Any suggestions? Thanks!

a member at geekhack is selling a Das Model S Ultimate (Cherry MX Blue, Blank Keys) for $85 shipped. used for 30 minutes.


----------



## klaxian

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
a member at geekhack is selling a Das Model S Ultimate (Cherry MX Blue, Blank Keys) for $85 shipped. used for 30 minutes.

Thanks, but as I mentioned, I need an MX brown or white keyboard.


----------



## klaxian

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Compaq MX-11800

i-Rocks KR-6230

Thanks. +rep


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
The new Geekhack Mechanical Keyboard Guide is up.

As ever, comments welcome (there that is).

I like the direction and link list but are you making a pop out book or guide? you need to scale down the amount of images and reduce resolution. you don't need to add "photo courtesy of <blank>" under each image. add a credits section instead.

why do you guys make it more complicated than it needs to be?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I like the direction and link list but are you making a pop out book or guide? you need to scale down the amount of images and reduce resolution. you don't need to add "photo courtesy of <blank>" under each image. add a credits section instead.

why do you guys make it more complicated than it needs to be?

Me thinks you should just make your own Wiki. Hence the saying, "If you want something done right, do it yourself."

Of course, that doesn't apply to me. Doing things myself results in tragedy. (stabilizers give me nightmares)


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
I like the direction and link list but are you making a pop out book or guide? you need to scale down the amount of images and reduce resolution. you don't need to add "photo courtesy of <blank>" under each image. add a credits section instead.

why do you guys make it more complicated than it needs to be?

Most people either prefer pictures, or like a good mix of pictures and text. All text is just dull and boring.


----------



## lmnop

too many and need a consistent resolution.










is this even necessary? it takes up my entire screen.

Buckling Spring -> Alps -> Cherry MX Blue -> Cherry MX Clear -> Cherry MX Brown -> Cherry MX Black

I win.


----------



## ch_123

That's some screen you must have...


----------



## lmnop

lol

if it was up to you we would all be using the IBM 5251 Terminal










I don't want to hurt his feelings he put a lot of work into it.


----------



## Maytan

Wait, why are White Alps so far over on that chart? I used a Chicony KB-7001 that used White Alps and it wasn't very loud.


----------



## ch_123

After using a Model F for a long time, a Model M actually starts to sound like something you could use in a room full of other people...


----------



## lmnop

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Wait, why are White Alps so far over on that chart? I used a Chicony KB-7001 that used White Alps and it wasn't very loud.

order the Unicomp.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
order the Unicomp.


----------



## webwit

All my keyboard pictures are released in the public domain by default, you can do with them whatever you want without crediting - shop them like it looks I'm killing kittens with the 122 key Model Fs, or harass old ladies by showing them photographs of what you'll refer to as "keyboard porn" (empirically proven to be a good way to scare them away and make lines move in grocery stores). Just don't blame me.

Once you made your first million out of reused amateur photography of mechanical keyboards, let us know and post pictures of your new mansion.


----------



## shaddix

I was going to go with a deck but ended up going with das instead. The one they sent me has scratches on it and the box is ripped(inside) lol. So sending this back on their dime and going to order a deck legend I guess. Seems to be ok though as it turns out I don't really like the cherry mx browns. Tactile feedback my ass. I may try clears with the deck or I might just go with unicomp.


----------



## 7h3kk1d

I order my das ultimate silent tomorrow


----------



## webwit

Truly Schmergonomic Review

As a keyboard collector there are perks.
Imagine my joy when I received a virtual shopped Truly Schmergonomic keyboard for review, to be included in his review section:
http://www.trulyergonomic.com/reviews.html

I like an honest guy, such as the guy behind Truly Schmergonomic, and thought it was the right thing to do - send out these prototypes for review.
No one likes some guy totally fabricating reviews and plainly lying to his potential customers with a fake review section, so this was a good move.

Once I unboxed the Truly Schmergonomic, it had immediate visual appeal. I loved the visual lines and no pixelation was seen in the smooth shadows down the edges, they were rendered perfectly well. Also, the included wrist wrest blended with the keyboard like magic, into one part. Thumbs up!
This round is for the Truly Schmergonomic!

I always figured, people with hurting feet who need to get special shoes, the last thing they want is variation in size and choice. This will only lead to confusion and more injury. Truly Schmergonomic understands this principle perfectly. A truly ergonomic keyboard with adjustable halves which can be conveniently positioned and rotated to the user's hand and finger sizes and desires, just gives too much choice. This is why they all failed. One size for all is the only truly schmergonomic way!

Yes this keyboard is pure win! It looks like big investors are behind it and that there is a lot of money. This will be the first Truly Successful ergonomic keyboard! No chance of failure. The fact they keep moving the pre orders final date is absolutely no sign at all of just a single unfinanced entrepreneur with no money. Not that I dislike those, especially when they are so totally transparent and honest. This transparency and honesty is a crucial thing, and reminds me of guys who talk about their "headquarters" while operating from their mother's attic. No chance of anything like that here, this is a professional operation!
I can tell you this: even if at this date there is not enough money for a first run, you can be certain these will be shipped in December to those fortunate souls who pre-ordered. That's how transparent and honest he is! And production lines in factories are very flexible, especially this time of year.

Truly Schmergonomic - Turning Soft Science into Soft Business!
Yeeeeaaaah!


----------



## ch_123

Damn, sounds like I need to buy ten of them...


----------



## lmnop




----------



## yellowtoblerone

Blasphemy against King Manyak!


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 









I laughed.

I checked my spare cash, I'm $20 short after shipping. I know I've got _something_ I can sell on ebay. Hnnnnng.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


does anyone actually use the end, home, pause, ins, pg up and pg down buttons?


I use them all. Here are some of the uses I get out of them:

*End*:

I get more than one use out of this key. Pressing it by itself while I'm editing text instantly puts my cursor at the end of a line. Pressing it by itself while scrolling instantly puts me at the end of the thing through which I am scrolling. Pressing it by itself instantly puts me at the end of a list of e-mails in an e-mail program such as Microsoft Outlook. Pressing it by itself in a folder instantly selects the last file, regardless of the view (whether it's List or Icons).

Pressing Ctrl+End while editing text instantly brings the cursor to the very end, or rather the very bottom. Pressing Shift+End while editing text selects all of the text to the right of the cursor on a single line. Pressing Ctrl+Shift+End while editing text selects absolutely everything after the cursor. Pressing Shift+Ctrl+End in a folder selects everything to the right and also below the currently selected file or folder (just like when editing text). Pressing Shift+End in a list of e-mails in a program such as Microsoft Outlook selects all of the e-mails after (or below) the currently selected e-mail.

There might be more uses that I get out of the End key, but obviously I find it to be extremely useful.

*Home:*

It's exactly like the End key, except everything goes towards the left instead of the right. So apply everything I said about the End key to the Home key, but just reverse the direction that the cursor or selection goes.

*Pause:*

WinKey+Pause. Try it! Or, press Pause during your motherboard's POST.

*Insert:*

In certain programs that support it, pressing Insert enables you to replace text as you type instead of pushing it over to the right. I still find this to be useful when I'm using a program that supports it. However, I admit that I rarely need it.

*Page Up/Page Down:*

This is useful anywhere I need to scroll one large chunk at a time. This is also useful when editing text, although I admit that I rarely use these keys for that. The most common use I get out of these keys is for scrolling in Firefox when I have my hands on the keyboard and would rather not go grab the mouse. Or, when I want to scroll but would rather just relax and use Page Up and Page Down instead of keeping my hand on the mouse. This isn't to say that I don't use the arrow keys; instead, it's just another way I use the keyboard for scrolling.

So yeah, there really isn't a single key on my keyboard that doesn't get used. I even use Scroll Lock as a Play/Pause button.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*












LOL nice!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I laughed.

I checked my spare cash, I'm $20 short after shipping. I know I've got _something_ I can sell on ebay. Hnnnnng.


Just sell blow in front of city hall. It's a goldmine.


----------



## BigT

its nice that this one is still going. it is one of a kind. almost like a familly


----------



## elbowglue

Rare form!
Webwit, I have to say, I officially apologize for ever cussing you out on geekhack =). This is funny stuff. Love ya!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


Truly Schmergonomic Review

As a keyboard collector there are perks. 
Imagine my joy when I received a virtual shopped Truly Schmergonomic keyboard for review, to be included in his review section:
http://www.trulyergonomic.com/reviews.html

I like an honest guy, such as the guy behind Truly Schmergonomic, and thought it was the right thing to do - send out these prototypes for review.
No one likes some guy totally fabricating reviews and plainly lying to his potential customers with a fake review section, so this was a good move.

Once I unboxed the Truly Schmergonomic, it had immediate visual appeal. I loved the visual lines and no pixelation was seen in the smooth shadows down the edges, they were rendered perfectly well. Also, the included wrist wrest blended with the keyboard like magic, into one part. Thumbs up!
This round is for the Truly Schmergonomic!

I always figured, people with hurting feet who need to get special shoes, the last thing they want is variation in size and choice. This will only lead to confusion and more injury. Truly Schmergonomic understands this principle perfectly. A truly ergonomic keyboard with adjustable halves which can be conveniently positioned and rotated to the user's hand and finger sizes and desires, just gives too much choice. This is why they all failed. One size for all is the only truly schmergonomic way!

Yes this keyboard is pure win! It looks like big investors are behind it and that there is a lot of money. This will be the first Truly Successful ergonomic keyboard! No chance of failure. The fact they keep moving the pre orders final date is absolutely no sign at all of just a single unfinanced entrepreneur with no money. Not that I dislike those, especially when they are so totally transparent and honest. This transparency and honesty is a crucial thing, and reminds me of guys who talk about their "headquarters" while operating from their mother's attic. No chance of anything like that here, this is a professional operation!
I can tell you this: even if at this date there is not enough money for a first run, you can be certain these will be shipped in December to those fortunate souls who pre-ordered. That's how transparent and honest he is! And production lines in factories are very flexible, especially this time of year.

Truly Schmergonomic - Turning Soft Science into Soft Business!
Yeeeeaaaah!


----------



## Sainesk

just curious, do different cherry colors have different production costs?


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


just curious, do different cherry colors have different production costs?


the retail prices vary. I imagine Cherry MX Blue cost the most to manufacture because of the click mechanism.


----------



## yashau

I need a clear housing for my Deck Legend. Anyone know where to find one?


----------



## Maytan

Ah, bugger. There's a Customizer on geekhack for $60 shipped. I wish I had a little more space, then I'd jump on this.


----------



## gordesky1

Just got my Xarmor today









Still getting used too it tho from coming from my abs m1, But for one thing its quieter than the abs m1... Was hoping it be the same loudness or louder..

But other than that im liking the feel of the cherry blues, But the abs m1 too me is still a great keyboard, But ya so far i am liking it the leds are really bright and i really like the rubber coating and don't really think it will come off sense it feels quality and almost feels like a regular plastic key coating.


----------



## fssbzz

just do a simple review about RK-9000 here.
please let me know if i need to fix anything i type wrong on it. 
First time writing review. my english suck big time. 
Thanks in advance 
http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/8...-new-post.html


----------



## Crazy9000

How many pictures do you have? You might want to pick a few to have out, then put the rest in spoiler tags, so people who just want to read the review quickly don't have to load them all.

To do spoiler tags, just go


Spoiler: description















You should be able to put as many images as you want in the same spoiler tag.

Then it would turn out like this:


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


How many pictures do you have? You might want to pick a few to have out, then put the rest in spoiler tags, so people who just want to read the review quickly don't have to load them all.

To do spoiler tags, just go


Spoiler: description















You should be able to put as many images as you want in the same spoiler tag.

Then it would turn out like this:



















thanks..just did


----------



## LarsMarkelson

just ordered a realforce 86u.

CLAY TABLET HERE I COME!


----------



## Ikrin

Clay tablet?


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


How many pictures do you have? You might want to pick a few to have out, then put the rest in spoiler tags, so people who just want to read the review quickly don't have to load them all.

To do spoiler tags, just go


Spoiler: description















You should be able to put as many images as you want in the same spoiler tag.

Then it would turn out like this:



















Spoiler tags doesn't stop the images from loading. It'll still load them, but it'll hide them until the tag is clicked.


----------



## Crazy9000

You sure? The page loads 800000x faster when they're in the tags.


----------



## gonX

If you're using Firefox or IE that's probably why









*EDIT*

Or if there are a lot of images some older browsers will decide to render it all before displaying it. So that's probably why. What you're experiencing is your computer being slow rather than your connection.


----------



## Crazy9000

I'm using chrome







. It was very laggy when the images weren't in the tags.


----------



## BigT

its off topic, but internet explorer 9 is way better. i have used fire fox, and do not like it at all. internet explorer 9 is the mechanical keyboard of browsers.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigT* 
its off topic, but internet explorer 9 is way better. i have used fire fox, and do not like it at all. internet explorer 9 is the mechanical keyboard of browsers.

According to most tests (like Acid3 & Peacemaker) this is not the case.


----------



## gonX

Lol, I think it's a matter of opinion







IE9 isn't finished yet, and still needs a lot of work to be a good browser. That and it needs compatibility with more than 1 OS.


----------



## ch_123

It's a usable browser, but it doesn't do anything that other browsers have already been doing better for about two years...


----------



## Sainesk

I wish abs m1s weren't discontinued, a mech keyboard for less than what my saitek eclipse cost me..









anyway, can anyone tell me what cherry mx greens and greys are like? i've heard of them mentioned in other threads but I don't see them in the guide.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sainesk* 
I wish abs m1s weren't discontinued, a mech keyboard for less than what my saitek eclipse cost me..









anyway, can anyone tell me what cherry mx greens and greys are like? i've heard of them mentioned in other threads but I don't see them in the guide.

the mx green and grey exist only on the spacebar
more info u can find it here.
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?tit...hes+and+boards


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
the mx green and grey exist only on the spacebar
more info u can find it here.
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?tit...hes+and+boards

You mean they're only used for spacebars for now. They aren't impossible to use on the rest of the keyboard.

MX Greens and MX Greys are the equivalent to MX Blues and MX Clears/MX Browns, respectively. Just stiffer. There's also the dark grey which is a stiffer MX Black.


----------



## ch_123

Greys are quite like blacks, even though they're meant to be tactile.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
You mean they're only used for spacebars for now. They aren't impossible to use on the rest of the keyboard.

MX Greens and MX Greys are the equivalent to MX Blues and MX Clears/MX Browns, respectively. Just stiffer. There's also the dark grey which is a stiffer MX Black.

They'll never be using across a whole keyboard, because A.) Most people prefer a light to moderate weight switch, and B.) Cherry makes them in very limited quantities and only in PCB-mount versions, which means it would be very, very expensive both in terms of switches and in terms of Costar, iOne, et al retooling for PCB-mount keyboards.


----------



## ch_123

There's no reason why Cherry couldn't make a load of them, all they are is the Brown/Blue switch with Blacks switch... But it's a question of why anyone would actually want them.


----------



## lmnop

there is a member at geekhack using Cherry MX Greens.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


there is a member at geekhack using Cherry MX Greens.


Was the keyboard(s) modded? Or is there a specific model that uses them?


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


Clay tablet?


i read one review that said it was like typing on a clay tablet. that is the best review i read so i am choosing to believe that it will be like that because that is most exciting for me


----------



## godofdeath

has anyone tried an adesso mechanical kb?
like $55 right now


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


has anyone tried an adesso mechanical kb?
like $55 right now


I picked up the MKB-135B and I like it pretty well.

It's rather generic but feels about the same as my Filco Otaku with blues.


----------



## Ikrin

I just enjoy the fact that they can't just cap pre-orders and instead added $10 back on to the pre-order price for the Truly Ergonomic and extended the date.


----------



## lmnop

modded. 6-8 months ago there was a guy who was only interested in high force mechanical key switches for any task.


----------



## calavera

edit, wrong thread


----------



## EZjijy

How big of a difference is there between black keys vs brown? I just tested a Steelseries G7 which have black keys and they had 0 resistance. I know they are supposed to be linear, but is there a significant difference between browns tactile feel vs blacks linear? If not, I'm considering blue keys.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EZjijy* 
How big of a difference is there between black keys vs brown? I just tested a Steelseries G7 which have black keys and they had 0 resistance. I know they are supposed to be linear, but is there a significant difference between browns tactile feel vs blacks linear? If not, I'm considering blue keys.

The Cherry MX Blacks require noticeably more force to press than the Cherry MX Browns. The Cherry MX Blues are somewhere in the middle, leaning towards the lighter feeling of the Cherry MX Browns.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EZjijy* 
How big of a difference is there between black keys vs brown? I just tested a Steelseries G7 which have black keys and they had 0 resistance. I know they are supposed to be linear, but is there a significant difference between browns tactile feel vs blacks linear? If not, I'm considering blue keys.

A big difference, MX-browns have a noticable tactile bump but are incredibly light to the touch.

MX-Blacks have a continuous force feel, so until you bottom out it feels like the switch could travel forever. And generally require more force.


----------



## SilverPotato

Does anyone know if I can get a Steelseries 7G wrist rest for my 6Gv2?

I heard they fit just the same but I can't find any place to buy the wrist rest


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
A big difference, MX-browns have a *noticable* tactile bump but are incredibly light to the touch.

Noticeable if you type with a light touch. If you put decent force into your typing, you won't really feel the tactility that much.

When I first got my Browns, I questioned whether or not they were really tactile. Of course, that was because I was used to slamming my finger on my domer boards.


----------



## BigT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SilverPotato* 
Does anyone know if I can get a Steelseries 7G wrist rest for my 6Gv2?

I heard they fit just the same but I can't find any place to buy the wrist rest

you may as well just get the 7G if you like the palm rest. I have the 7G and i can tell you the palm rest is the best palm rest i have ever used. i can game for hours and i never get tired. if you ever ffound somewhere to get the palm rest seperate you would pay through the rooof for it. you may as well just get the 7g. then you get the usb hub as well. it is an awsome keyboard. i love it.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BigT* 
you may as well just get the 7G if you like the palm rest. I have the 7G and i can tell you the palm rest is the best palm rest i have ever used. i can game for hours and i never get tired. if you ever ffound somewhere to get the palm rest seperate you would pay through the rooof for it. you may as well just get the 7g. then you get the usb hub as well. it is an awsome keyboard. i love it.

He already has the 6gv2, he won't spend money on the 7g just for the wrist wrest....


----------



## thisispatrick

You can get one of theses if you want, it works very well.

 Amazon.com: 3M(TM) Wrist Rest for Keyboard, Antimicrobial, Gel, Large Size, Black: Office Products


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

In my opinion,

 Memory Foam Wrist Rests
>>> Gel.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing* 
In my opinion, Memory Foam Wrist Rests >>> Gel.

In my opinion, absolutely nothing >>>>>>>>>>> Wrist wrest


----------



## TwoCables

I like to use my fat as a wrist rest.


----------



## ripster

In for post #9001!

Since I think it's appropriate to talk about the Mechanical Keyboard Guide every 1000 posts I suggest it may be time to fill in the "Materials" section of the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide?

Perhaps something went wrong with the CopyPasta from here?

Edit: (damn, #9002)


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I like to use my fat as a wrist rest.

loooool.

i don't believe in wrist rests, imo they cut off circulation!

negative slope keyboard trays on the other hand could be interesting. anyone ever try one?


----------



## xHassassin

So I have 85 bucks to spend on a keyboard and I found a Das Model S Ultimate for that price. Do you guys think that would be a good buy? I game a lot so IDK if the blues will be that helpful but the Filco 104key brown NKRO is a bit out of my budget.

Suggestions? I'll probably hop on the Das tomorrow.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xHassassin*


So I have 85 bucks to spend on a keyboard and I found a Das Model S Ultimate for that price. Do you guys think that would be a good buy? I game a lot so IDK if the blues will be that helpful but the Filco 104key brown NKRO is a bit out of my budget.

Suggestions? I'll probably hop on the Das tomorrow.


http://www.overclock.net/other-compo...al-silent.html

or

http://www.overclock.net/other-compo...l#post10977850

hopefully they are not pending or sold


----------



## thisispatrick

Update:
Ducky has released new types of their 1087 keyboards. They now have different switches for different areas.


----------



## De-Zant

What are dual switches?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *De-Zant*


What are dual switches?


Sorry if it sounded confusing, I mean they have two types of switches on a single keyboard. The typing cluster is Blacks/Browns and the arrow key cluster area is blue switches. Its marked by the red boxes.


----------



## thiru

I'm guessing one side is blue and the other side is black/brown... but why have a partially clicky keyboard?


----------



## De-Zant

Why would anyone want that? Having a different switch type in those 13 keys doesn't benefit you very much... I rarely use them....


----------



## The Duke

Please keep on topic.
The thread has been cleaned up and please take the ice cream and burgers to the OT where it belongs.
Thank You


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I would think people would want it. But it's a tough call since it's not like just the portion of the keys at the wasd are one type. If that was the case you can have blacks there to aid gaming but still have the rest of the keyboard as blues or browns for typing.


----------



## xHassassin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


http://www.overclock.net/other-compo...al-silent.html

or

http://www.overclock.net/other-compo...l#post10977850

hopefully they are not pending or sold


:|

Thanks for deleting my relevant post Duke.

I was actually looking for alternatives to the Das in the 85 or less range.

I guess I'll just buy that then.


----------



## The Duke

Sorry xHassassin
Your reply has been restored, my mistake


----------



## Jyr

Whoops./


----------



## ripster

Thank you moderator. It was very confusing what happened after my post.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *De-Zant* 
Why would anyone want that? Having a different switch type in those 13 keys doesn't benefit you very much... I rarely use them....

RARELY? :mindblown:

I use them so much that's why.


----------



## thiru

I use them, but I don't see the point in using blue switches for them when the rest of your keyboard isn't clicky.


----------



## Ikrin

Well, this scheme is supposedly only going to be a limited to their first production run for them, so they're supposed to be a special edition.


----------



## j0n3z3y

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
http://www.overclock.net/other-compo...l#post10977850

hopefully they are not pending or sold

Sorry, the 2nd link is where I got my Das from. Unless you can stop UPS from delivering tomorrow....it's mine


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *j0n3z3y*


Sorry, the 2nd link is where I got my Das. Unless you can stop UPS from delivering tomorrow....it's mine










i already got the exact same das silent myself loll..so i don mind.


----------



## Ikrin

Am I the only person confused as to why this isn't in the Keyboard Forum?


----------



## j0n3z3y

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


i already got the exact same das silent myself loll..so i don mind.


















Ah yes...very nice!







I've not tried the Cherry brown prior to. So it'll be a whole new thing for me. Kind of a mechanical baby step away from my G11.









The only thing I might miss, is the backlit keys. I like to game in the dark.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


Am I the only person confused as to why this isn't in the Keyboard Forum?


Probably hasn't been moved yet.


----------



## Ikrin

Yea. You're right. I just read about it being a new forum. But still, this has to be the longest thread about keyboards to not have been moved and/or stickied yet.


----------



## Crazy9000

It's an important\\large thread, they probably need to be sure it moves the whole thing correctly, and that any old links will still direct to it.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
It's an important\\large thread, they probably need to be sure it moves the whole thing correctly, and that any old links will still direct to it.

It can be moved all at once without issue... it's more or less up to Manyak to do that since it's his thread and he's a moderator for the section.


----------



## gonX

I'll move it now. Links should still work since the forum is based on threadID's


----------



## j0n3z3y

Well, my Das arrived. I must say, I'm ecstatic. I would have to disagree about the term non-clicky being used in reference to the browns. Prior to, I'd only used the blues....and while the browns are much quieter, I certainly wouldn't call them non-clicky as I can distinctly hear them over a pair of loud (49db ea.) 120 x 38mm fans in an open air tech station.

I'm not refering to the keys bottoming either. Totally different sound. It's of no consequence, it's certainly manageable and doesn't bother me a bit. Just making a note for those shopping around of my experience







. Prolly within a few months, I'll have it tuned out entirely.









Das ='s <3


----------



## thiru

They're not called clicky because they don't have the mechanism that makes it clicky. That's all really.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *j0n3z3y* 
Well, my Das arrived. I must say, I'm ecstatic. I would have to disagree about the term non-clicky being used in reference to the browns. Prior to, I'd only used the blues....and while the browns are much quieter, I certainly wouldn't call them non-clicky as I can distinctly hear them over a pair of loud (49db ea.) 120 x 38mm fans in an open air tech station.

I'm not refering to the keys bottoming either. Totally different sound. It's of no consequence, it's certainly manageable and doesn't bother me a bit. Just making a note for those shopping around of my experience







. Prolly within a few months, I'll have it tuned out entirely.









Das ='s <3









Um... I think what you are hearing are the keys bouncing back to its original position...


----------



## j0n3z3y

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Um... I think what you are hearing are the keys bouncing back to its original position...

No, it's on the depressing of the key that I'm hearing it. Prior to the key bottoming out. I think I'm going to pull off a key to confirm these are in fact browns. It was advertised as a Professional Silent...but the more I listen to it, them more I suspect it's Cherry blue's and the F.S. item listing was mislabeled.

Edit/ Confirmed. They are blues. Kk, I need to get in touch with the seller.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *j0n3z3y* 
No, it's on the depressing of the key that I'm hearing it. Prior to the key bottoming out. I think I'm going to pull off a key to confirm these are in fact browns. It was advertised as a Professional Silent...but the more I listen to it, them more I suspect it's Cherry blue's and the F.S. item listing was mislabeled.

Edit/ Confirmed. They are blues. Kk, I need to get in touch with the seller.

LOL. Problem solved


----------



## j0n3z3y

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
LOL. Problem solved









Yeah, but I'm not happy about it. The thread specifically states "Das Professional S Silent" w/ a link to that products page @ Das.









http://www.overclock.net/other-compo...-x750-psu.html


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *j0n3z3y* 
Yeah, but I'm not happy about it. The thread specifically states "Das Professional S Silent" w/ a link to that products page @ Das.









http://www.overclock.net/other-compo...-x750-psu.html

If you were anywhere near me I would have liked to try those and maybe traded


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *j0n3z3y* 
Yeah, but I'm not happy about it. The thread specifically states "Das Professional S Silent" w/ a link to that products page @ Das.









http://www.overclock.net/other-compo...-x750-psu.html

Uh oh you're right. False advertising


----------



## j0n3z3y

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Uh oh you're right. False advertising









I don't think it was intentional. Prolly was mis-packed at Das. I can live with it, hell....went through all of the 80's and 1/2 the 90's w/ clicky IBM mechs. They just would'nt die









The G11 was only my 2nd non-mechanical, I'd ever owned









@Thiru- Yeah, too bad. I really wanted to sample a switch I'd not tried before.


----------



## KipH

You made me check my browns' sounds. Silent as the grave, but loud clack on bottom out.

Try out the blues for a while, you may have got the right board by accident, karma may have done you a favour.


----------



## j0n3z3y

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
You made me check my browns' sounds. Silent as the grave, but loud clack on bottom out.

Try out the blues for a while, you may have got the right board by accident, karma may have done you a favour.

Lol! Sorry about that.







Yes, you may be correct on the karma....though, I find the blues a little light for my tastes. I'm sure I'll get used to that in the near future.


----------



## ripster

Metadot needs to have clearer packaging.

Like in the old days.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *j0n3z3y* 
I don't think it was intentional. Prolly was mis-packed at Das. I can live with it, hell....went through all of the 80's and 1/2 the 90's w/ clicky IBM mechs. They just would'nt die









The G11 was only my 2nd non-mechanical, I'd ever owned









@Thiru- Yeah, too bad. I really wanted to sample a switch I'd not tried before.









<pic>

Nah I mean the seller here on OCN mislabeled it. Therefore it should be his fault not Das'. Unless he never realized he got blues instead of browns...


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Nah I mean the seller here on OCN mislabeled it. Therefore it should be his fault not Das'. Unless he never realized he got blues instead of browns...









That'd be too much to handle..


----------



## j0n3z3y

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Nah I mean the seller here on OCN mislabeled it. Therefore it should be his fault not Das'. Unless he never realized he got blues instead of browns...









I got you in your earlier post.







I think that the latter is the probable scenario. I'll give the benefit of the doubt....which is a surprisingly abnormal thing for me to do, being a realist myself.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *j0n3z3y* 
I got you in your earlier post.







I think that the latter is the probable scenario. I'll give the benefit of the doubt....which is a surprisingly abnormal thing for me to do, being a realist myself.









Oh god. This really would call for one epic face palm. Where did I put that picture...


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *j0n3z3y* 
Yeah, but I'm not happy about it. The thread specifically states "Das Professional S Silent" w/ a link to that products page @ Das.









http://www.overclock.net/other-compo...-x750-psu.html

he should give refund u like $15~20. Blues are cheaper in Das Site.


----------



## j0n3z3y

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
he should give refund u like $15~20. Blues are cheaper in Das Site.

Yeah, I've been thinking it over. I think that is the best way to handle it, being that I promised to give my old Logitech to my friend when my Das arrived. It's already at his house. :/

On the other hand, he did include shipping....so maybe a $5-10 is a little more appropriate.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *j0n3z3y* 
Yeah, I've been thinking it over. I think that is the best way to handle it, being that I promised to give my old Logitech to my friend when my Das arrived. It's already at his house. :/

On the other hand, he did include shipping....so maybe a $5-10 is a little more appropriate.

yup.$5~$10 s a gift tru paypal. void that little fees.


----------



## Maytan

Well, It was a tough decision, but I decided I'm gonna' sell the Das in order to try out the Unicomp.

There's just one problem, the backspace key is squeaky. Yeah, I'm pretty much 3 for 3 on this issue. I tried lubricating it months ago with some White Lithium Grease, and it still hasn't distributed itself. (yes, I'm 100% positive it's the stabilizer.)

Should I RMA it then sell it, or just sell the one I have now? (which is also a refurb unit, btw)


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *j0n3z3y* 
Lol! Sorry about that.







Yes, you may be correct on the karma....though, I find the blues a little light for my tastes. I'm sure I'll get used to that in the near future.

The browns are lighter than the blues, anyway. You should get adjusted before trying out the browns.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Well, It was a tough decision, but I decided I'm gonna' sell the Das in order to try out the Unicomp.

There's just one problem, the backspace key is squeaky. Yeah, I'm pretty much 3 for 3 on this issue. I tried lubricating it months ago with some White Lithium Grease, and it still hasn't distributed itself. (yes, I'm 100% positive it's the stabilizer.)

Should I RMA it then sell it, or just sell the one I have now? (which is also a refurb unit, btw)

I would RMA it if it's covered by the warranty. Given that it is refurbished already, it's probably not going to be in any better condition since you've already tried lubricating it without success.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ikrin* 
The browns are lighter than the blues, anyway. You should get adjusted beforI would RMA it if it's covered by the warranty. Given that it is refurbished already, it's probably not going to be in any better condition since you've already tried lubricating it without success.

Well, if I RMA it, I might end up with a brand new unit. Who knows.


----------



## Crazy9000

Haven't you RMA'd it enough? It should sell easily anyways, I don't think it would be worth it.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Haven't you RMA'd it enough? It should sell easily anyways, I don't think it would be worth it.

Yeah. I've made jokes to my friends about how they probably have my picture hanging on a dart board in their office or factory or whatever.









If you think it'll still sell regardless of the squeaky key, I'll just try selling it. How much do you think I should put it up for? It has some scratches, since it's a refurb; but I should be able to get most of them out with some Novus. (which I might as well include with the keyboard.)


----------



## Ikrin

So you've already RMA'd it on multiple occasions? What's Novus?


----------



## lmnop

Novus is a plastic polisher and scratch remover. you can buy it in individual bottles or kits. works great with the Das Model S face plate.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


So you've already RMA'd it on multiple occasions? What's Novus?


Twice, actually.

Novus is a scratch remover for plastic. I bought it for my Das per recommendation of lmnop, but I haven't used it yet.

EDIT: NINJAAAAAAAAAA'D


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Haven't you RMA'd it enough? It should sell easily anyways, I don't think it would be worth it.


Is it fixed? No? Needs to be RMA'd.

Trust me it seems like a pointless endeavor. But I've worked with companies enough telling them how they can either improve a product line-up, or improve their image; and at the top of the list I always see complaints about slow, non-consistent, or shoddy RMA services. 
And these companies do take notes when someone has to RMA multiple times.

After awhile, some companies actually get it and step their game up.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Is it fixed? No? Needs to be RMA'd.

Trust me it seems like a pointless endeavor. But I've worked with companies enough telling them how they can either improve a product line-up, or improve their image; and at the top of the list I always see complaints about slow, non-consistent, or shoddy RMA services. 
And these companies do take notes when someone has to RMA multiple times.

After awhile, some companies actually get it and step their game up.


Well, I can sort of back that up. The only reason I got a second RMA when I *cough* broke *cough* the keyboard was because I had a previous issue with the board.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

This guide is famous!

Well, not really, but still cool!


----------



## j0n3z3y

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


The browns are lighter than the blues, anyway. You should get adjusted before trying out the browns


Yeah, falling back in the swing of things already. Prolly picked up 4-5 wpm since I switched. Except in the dark, not having backlit key's is bugging me a little bit when placing hands back on the kb. I'ma have to rig some led's to wash the kb w/ a soft light methinks.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *j0n3z3y*


Yeah, falling back in the swing of things already. Prolly picked up 4-5 wpm since I switched. Except in the dark, not having backlit key's is bugging me a little bit when placing hands back on the kb. I'ma have to rig some led's to wash the kb w/ a soft light methinks.


Just feel for the nubs on the J & F keys.

They are designed to help you without looking. After awhile it becomes a habit and then you don't even think about it and just know where your fingers go


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Just feel for the nubs on the J & F keys.

They are designed to help you without looking. After awhile it becomes a habit and then you don't even think about it and just know where your fingers go


Except when you don't want to touch type, and want to like hit I for inventory







. Blank keyboards are usable, but it's not quite as simple as knowing how to touch type. I've been using a blank keyboard since I got my blank das in January 2009, and still have trouble hitting the right key sometimes. I have learned all the numbers and stuff from touch-typing though.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Except when you don't want to touch type, and want to like hit I for inventory







. Blank keyboards are usable, but it's not quite as simple as knowing how to touch type. I've been using a blank keyboard since I got my blank das in January 2009, and still have trouble hitting the right key sometimes. I have learned all the numbers and stuff from touch-typing though.


I turn off my Deck at night and play without back-lighting just fine.

But I've been typing since second grade. I know where my keys are. And the only time i Have problems is when I use my right pinky for the \\| key, as it doesn't like to press down as hard as any other of my fingers. 
So the 55G Clears take a bit more effort to actuate the key without bottoming it out.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I turn off my Deck at night and play without back-lighting just fine.

But I've been typing since second grade. I know where my keys are. And the only time i Have problems is when I use my right pinky for the \\| key, as it doesn't like to press down as hard as any other of my fingers. 
So the 55G Clears take a bit more effort to actuate the key without bottoming it out.


Not having backlighting is very different from not having lettering on the keys. In the dark without any lettering on the keys, it's very hard to tell when one key starts and the other one ends. Again, it doesn't matter how well you touch type, touch typing is fine. It's when you are gaming or something and aren't touch typing that it can be an issue. I mean you don't usually get into touch typing position to open your inventory







.


----------



## Tator Tot

Well with no lights on, I can't see the keys on my Deck at all. It looks pretty grim and dark down there.

And I actually do go to home-row on the keyboard if I'm using my right hand to do anything. It just feels more natural to me and doesn't eat up any extra time.

If I'm in the WSAD Position I usually just reach over and hit I, K, or M pretty instinctual and well. 
Mostly because between the games I play, they are the most common right side keys that I need to hit. 
So as long as a keyboard has atleast similar key spacing, I can hit those keys without a problem.

A laptop keyboard though, I'm rather lost at times.


----------



## gonX

If you rest your hands against the bottom of the keyboard, you can "mark" a home position with an exacto knife. It doesn't look pretty, but it should help you find the home position.


----------



## KipH

If your board has some USB ports on it and easy light is easy. Get a USB light on a flexible antenna or flexible neck. This can put just enough light to see your keys easy and not wake anyone or rune you night vision. I can get cheep ones here for <$10 but CostCo had a set of 2 for $20 and they had a battery pack for book use. They are great!

Like this one or that one.


----------



## BigT

doesnt your computer monitor provide enough light to see youur keys?
I have a steelseries 7G, and it is not a backlit keyboard. i can see it just fine at night when playing left 4 dead or team fortress or even just typing on the forum. now if i had blank keycaps i would be LOST. but when i am playing FPS i never need to look down. my hand stays on the WASD cluster. i do not type properly and do not have the entire keyboard memorized. I think its awsome that some of you guys have the skill to use a blank keycap keyboard. i am jealous.


----------



## thiru

He doesn't have letters on his keyboard..


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


He doesn't have letters on his keyboard..


he doesn't have the Ultimate version.


----------



## j0n3z3y

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Just feel for the nubs on the J & F keys.

They are designed to help you without looking. After awhile it becomes a habit and then you don't even think about it and just know where your fingers go


I've been using backlit kb's for so long, I totally gapped on that







Thanks for the reminder.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


A laptop keyboard though, I'm rather lost at times.


Same, and I hate the changing key layouts from one model to another. Bugs me to no end. What's wrong w/ a little standardization?!? After using standard QWERTY for nearly 2 1/2 decades....picking up new key layouts isn't easy. It was bad enough switching from typewriters, to word processors and computers back then. I'm kinda set in my ways kb wise









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


If your board has some USB ports on it and easy light is easy. Get a USB light on a flexible antenna or flexible neck. This can put just enough light to see your keys easy and not wake anyone or rune you night vision. I can get cheep ones here for <$10 but CostCo had a set of 2 for $20 and they had a battery pack for book use. They are great!

Like this one or that one.


I have a few like that. I just like a tidy, neat look to my desktop & would like them hidden (not directly viewable, from any angle except as a wash over the kb). Lol...I have a plethora of leds, resistors (and other electronic components). So it's nbd to whip up a small board w/ some smd leds this weekend. Thanks for the suggestion though


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


he doesn't have the Ultimate version.


Oh I looked at the wrong post then.


----------



## FaLLeNAn9eL

Just ordered the Filco Majestouch Otaku to replace my G15. Really excited about getting my fingers on it. (Get it? Fingers?)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *FaLLeNAn9eL*


Just ordered the Filco Majestouch Otaku to replace my G15. Really excited about getting my fingers on it. (Get it? Fingers?)


Nice! Did you get the Tactile Click, Tactile Touch, or Linear Force?


----------



## FaLLeNAn9eL

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Nice! Did you get the Tactile Click, Tactile Touch, or Linear Force?


I got the Tactile Click ones. Cherry MX Blues.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *FaLLeNAn9eL*


I got the Tactile Click ones. Cherry MX Blues.










Oh! Yeah, I have a Tactile Click too! It's my first and only mechanical keyboard, and I'm indescribably happy with it!

The actual model I have is the Tactile Click NKRO, and I received it in the mail 8Â½ months ago on March 9th and I _still _can't get over how awesome it is.


----------



## FaLLeNAn9eL

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Oh! Yeah, I have a Tactile Click too! It's my first and only mechanical keyboard, and I'm indescribably happy with it!

The actual model I have is the Tactile Click NKRO, and I received it in the mail 8Â½ months ago on March 9th and I _still _can't get over how awesome it is.


Oh sweet. I got the same ones but with the blank keys. I was kind of torn between Filco and Das. The looks and the wait time (or the lack there of) on the Filcos made me spend the extra 50 bucks or so and they're only an hour away from me!


----------



## rpgman1

I'm in the market for a good mechanical keyboard. Would like to hear some suggestions.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FaLLeNAn9eL* 
Oh sweet. I got the same ones but with the blank keys. I was kind of torn between Filco and Das. The looks and the wait time (or the lack there of) on the Filcos made me spend the extra 50 bucks or so and they're only an hour away from me!









Excellent choice. I bought the same thing you did too. Once you get it and play around with it, you'll see just how incredible of an experience it is.


----------



## yashau

Well someone on another thread mentioned of a 'Ducky' (whatever that is) keyboard with Cherry browns and backlighting. Does that exist?


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yashau* 
Well someone on another thread mentioned of a 'Ducky' (whatever that is) keyboard with Cherry browns and backlighting. Does that exist?

I believe those are only in taiwan..

I remember having my sister look em up when she was over there for vacation.


----------



## rpgman1

Ducky in Taiwan


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rpgman1* 
I'm in the market for a good mechanical keyboard. Would like to hear some suggestions.

What are you going to use it for? mostly gaming, mostly typing or both?


----------



## yashau

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rpgman1* 
Ducky in Taiwan

Eh I can't find anything backlit on there


----------



## rpgman1

Both gaming and typing. Have been out of touch for keyboards. Guess Ducky doesn't have backlit keyboards.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rpgman1* 
Both gaming and typing. Have been out of touch for keyboards. Guess Ducky doesn't have backlit keyboards.

Then I would suggest a keyboard with brown switches. They're a middle grown between blues (excellent for typing, but some people have issues gaming because of the way the key activation and release works for example) and blacks/reds (considered good for gaming).

The browns are non clicky (no audible click to tell you that the key has been pressed) and tactile (when you press, you go through a certain resistance, after which the key is activated, but you can still press downwards linearly, which eases typing).

Blues are clicky (but the click sounds nice IMO) and tactile too, but with slightly more resistance.

There are also whites, but I don't know much about them.

Das Model S and the Filco Majestouch can be sold with either brown or blue switches.


----------



## rpgman1

Thanks for the suggestion. I miss old keyboards that have that feeling when you type on them. Today's keyboards just don't feel the same to me when I type and game.


----------



## webwit

Find the differences..


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rpgman1* 
Thanks for the suggestion. I miss old keyboards that have that feeling when you type on them. Today's keyboards just don't feel the same to me when I type and game.

I have no experience with blue switches, but I feel that's it's not worth getting keyboard A instead of B simply because of gaming. So I'd suggest getting a blue Das Model S, try it out, see if the noise or gaming on it bothers you.
If it's bad, you have 30 days to return it, no questions asked, and you can get a brown instead (Model S Silent).

You could also get the Deck Legend, which has clears, which feel like stiffer browns. Apparently it's one of the current best made keyboards, and it's backlit. Not sure why this one isn't recommended as much for gaming+typing though.


----------



## thisispatrick

Duckies are not backlit. I'm liking my browns more than these blues :|


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Duckies are not backlit. I'm liking my browns more than these blues :|

I've been using my RK-9000 and I'm not sure what to feel. The strong tactile bump is nice - easier to not bottom out. I was used to that on my browns though (took longer to get it right though).

Still, the clicky sound of the blues is awesome.


----------



## rpgman1

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I have no experience with blue switches, but I feel that's it's not worth getting keyboard A instead of B simply because of gaming. So I'd suggest getting a blue Das Model S, try it out, see if the noise or gaming on it bothers you.
If it's bad, you have 30 days to return it, no questions asked, and you can get a brown instead (Model S Silent).

You could also get the Deck Legend, which has clears, which feel like stiffer browns. Apparently it's one of the current best made keyboards, and it's backlit. Not sure why this one isn't recommended as much for gaming+typing though.

I'll probably give the Deck Legend keyboards a try when I have the money.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing* 
I've been using my RK-9000 and I'm not sure what to feel. The strong tactile bump is nice - easier to not bottom out. I was used to that on my browns though (took longer to get it right though).

Still, the clicky sound of the blues is awesome.

That's what happened to me. Since browns was my first one I was more used to it. Now that I have these blues there is definite increase in force required which I'm not accustomed to.


----------



## Ikrin

Am I the only one that finds it ironic that Ducky has an ad for Das Keyboards on their site?

And here.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

What fonts does everyone want to see on their keyboard lettering?

I saw a Helvetica lettered keyboard in the favorite kb thread and it looked pretty nice. I like whatever Filco uses on theirs, looks really sweet. But doesn't it make sense to use a mono-spaced font for each key, seeing how each key is the same size?

Not many really nice looking monospace fonts though.

Looking at this site of monospaced fonts, http://www.codeproject.com/KB/work/FontSurvey.aspx

Dina is my favorite for a keyboard font right now










Osaka Unicode looks pretty funky too, could be cool










This Dolly font is very pretty, but not monospace. Warning, pdf link with some nsfw language, http://www.underware.nl/download/dolly/pdf/Dolly.pdf

Newwww favorite! The Mix Mono by Consolas creator Lucas de Groot, http://www.lucasfonts.com/fonts/them...mono/overview/ <--- link only, pic on there is really large to put inline


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rpgman1*


Thanks for the suggestion. I miss old keyboards that have that feeling when you type on them. Today's keyboards just don't feel the same to me when I type and game.


This is why we love mechanical keyboards.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I have no experience with blue switches, but I feel that's it's not worth getting keyboard A instead of B simply because of gaming. So I'd suggest getting a blue Das Model S, try it out, see if the noise or gaming on it bothers you.
If it's bad, you have 30 days to return it, no questions asked, and you can get a brown instead (Model S Silent).

You could also get the Deck Legend, which has clears, which feel like stiffer browns. Apparently it's one of the current best made keyboards, and it's backlit. Not sure why this one isn't recommended as much for gaming+typing though.


Actually, the Deck Legend is available with both the Cherry MX Blacks and Clears. They go by "Linear" and "Tactile" respectively.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


This is why we love mechanical keyboards.









Actually, the Deck Legend is available with both the Cherry MX Blacks and Clears. They go by "Linear" and "Tactile" respectively.


Yes I know but he's not looking for linear keyboards.

edit: oh, yeah I should have said that it comes in 2 flavors and which one was which.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Yes I know but he's not looking for linear keyboards.


Clears are nonclick but Tactile (stronger bump like the blues) @ 55cN.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing*


Clears are nonclick but Tactile (stronger bump like the blues) @ 55cN.


And you thought I didn't know this because..?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Yes I know but he's not looking for linear keyboards.

edit: oh, yeah I should have said that it comes in 2 flavors and which one was which.


hehe yeah, that's all I meant.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


And you thought I didn't know this because..?


You stated:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*

Yes I know but he's not looking for linear keyboards.


Blacks are linear, Clears are not.

Given what you said, it wasn't clear if you understood that. Glad to hear you do, but the mere context of your post might confuse someone new to the thread into thinking that both blacks and clears are linear switches.

Combined with the fact that I wasn't sure if you knew, I made my reply


----------



## ripster

Well, I know what Font I do NOT like.

Something for hobbits.


----------



## thiru

Oh. Well you had to read the one a few posts above to get the full context (omg I wrote "blocks" instead of posts... too much Minecraft







)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing*


You stated:

Blacks are linear, Clears are not.

Given what you said, it wasn't clear if you understood that. Glad to hear you do, but the mere context of your post might confuse someone new to the thread into thinking that both blacks and clears are linear switches.

Combined with the fact that I wasn't sure if you knew, I made my reply










I don't know man... based on all of those replies of his, I was under the impression that he knows the differences quite well. All I was concerned about was that for a moment, it looked like he thought all Deck Legend boards have the Cherry MX Clears.


----------



## yashau

Quote:



Well, I know what Font I do NOT like.


I think guys over at Deck were high when they made that font. The cool LEDs make up for it though


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Oh well you should have read the one a few posts above (omg I wrote "blocks" instead of posts... too much Minecraft







)


There's more than one page to this thread???









I'll try to keep this in mind before I jump on the level of knowledge of people again









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yashau*


I think guys over at Deck were high when they made that font. The cool LEDs make up for it though










Maybe they borrowed some pipeweed from the hobbits.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing*


There's more than one page to this thread???










Yep. If you're using 100 Posts Per Page in your OCN User CP, then there are 92 pages.


----------



## thiru

I have 9000 ppp. That's 2 pages.


----------



## yashau

Speaking of keyboards I spilled my milkshake on my Deck yesterday. Still works fine though. Do you think I should open it and clean it up?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Yes.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I have 9000 ppp. That's 2 pages.


That's a long page load.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yashau*


Speaking of keyboards I spilled my milkshake on my Deck yesterday. Still works fine though. Do you think I should open it and clean it up?


Nope. Keyboards work better when they're really dirty.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I have 9000 ppp. That's 2 pages.


Lol. This thread needs a relational database. Suggested search terms include "USB", "Ducky", and "Burgers!".


----------



## yashau

Quote:



Nope. Keyboards work better when they're really dirty.


I hope that's sarcasm

I'm kinda scared to open this up. I love this keyboard too much :|


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yashau*


I hope that's sarcasm

I'm kinda scared to open this up. I love this keyboard too much :|


Of course it was sarcasm.







Even if I spilled just plain distilled water on my keyboard, I'd still be opening it up and cleaning it out.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I dunno... the _modified narrow italicized gothic Futura font of some sort_ font let's the keyboard look classy and high-end (or, elite).


Style is a matter of opinion. Some people really like the font on the decks. There was some complaining about the Filco font when I was trying to organize a buy a while back.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing*


Style is a matter of opinion. Some people really like the font on the decks. There was some complaining about the Filco font when I was trying to organize a buy a while back.


Yeah, I know it's a matter of opinion.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing*


Style is a matter of opinion. Some people really like the font on the decks. There was some complaining about the Filco font when I was trying to organize a buy a while back.


I personally don't mid the font on my Deck.

But one of the better fonts/styles I've liked was what they used on the Matias 3.0 
I also liked having all the extra symbols on the keys.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

So I just used my Realforce 86u for the first time and I'm loving it. It IS like typing on a clay tablet. Soo much better than my Filcos Brown and Blue, definitely worth the money.

Now how do I turn this damn Windows key and alt key on?


----------



## ripster

Turn the box over and learn Japanese.

Edit: I meant learn Japanese THEN turn the box over.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

hahahaha. i just had a japanese speaking friend help me out.

weird thing was i had it already set to be on, all switches were off.... but it wasn't working!

so i restarted and plugged in and out a few times and it worked. I THOUGHT USB WAS PLUG AND PLAY ***


----------



## FaLLeNAn9eL

So I just got my new Filco out of the box I'm using this thread as an excuse to type things and already I'm loving the MX Blue switches. I love the clicking sound and the keys feel really nice. Also glad I went with the Otaku version. I love the look of the blank keys and it feels completely natural typing without having to look. I think I need to order the palm rest.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FaLLeNAn9eL* 
So I just got my new Filco out of the box I'm using this thread as an excuse to type things and already I'm loving the MX Blue switches. I love the clicking sound and the keys feel really nice. Also glad I went with the Otaku version. I love the look of the blank keys and it feels completely natural typing without having to look. I think I need to order the palm rest.

The one at Elite Keyboards is extremely overpriced, so try to find one locally.









But if your keyboard is at a low enough height (like say maybe a few inches above your legs, such as having it on a keyboard tray), then try to avoid keeping your wrists planted down while typing.


----------



## ch_123

Whatever happened to the cheaper leather Filco wrist rests? Like the one underneath my wrists right now...


----------



## FaLLeNAn9eL

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
The one at Elite Keyboards is extremely overpriced, so try to find one locally.









But if your keyboard is at a low enough height (like say maybe a few inches above your legs, such as having it on a keyboard tray), then try to avoid keeping your wrists planted down while typing.

Haha yeah. Can you believe I was about to buy one? I'll be looking around the local office supply stores for a leather one. Thanks!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FaLLeNAn9eL* 
Haha yeah. Can you believe I was about to buy one? I'll be looking around the local office supply stores for a leather one. Thanks!

Nah, I almost bought it too. Actually, I'm having trouble remembering specifics, but I know that there's one that many of the regulars in this thread strongly prefer, and I remember that it's significantly more affordable than the Filco wrist rest!


----------



## Crazy9000

Something like this should work pretty good

 Amazon.com: 3M(TM) Wrist Rest for Keyboard, Antimicrobial, Gel, Compact Size, Black: Office Products


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Something like this should work pretty good

Amazon.com: 3M(TM) Wrist Rest for Keyboard, Antimicrobial, Gel, Compact Size, Black: Office Products

Yeah! That's the one!


----------



## FaLLeNAn9eL

Thanks, guys!


----------



## lmnop

these are your choices for a wrist rest.

iOne Libra 35 T









iOne Libra 35 PU









3M Silicone Gel Wrist Rest









Rollermouse (Free, Pro2)









3 Star Leather Palm Rest


----------



## ripster

This kind of useful palmpad information should be linked to from the Mechanical Keyboard Guide. In post #9157 it's a little difficult to find.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


these are your choices for a wrist rest.

iOne Libra 35 T









iOne Libra 35 PU









Rollermouse (Free, Pro2)


----------



## lmnop

it should but will it?

I think..

3M Silicone Gel Wrist Pad = leatherette with silicone and base plate.
Filco Palm Rest = leather textile with soft foam and a base plate.
Filco 3 Star = genuine leather with softer foam and a base plate.

thanks to majestouch.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
This kind of useful palmpad information should be linked to from the Mechanical Keyboard Guide. In post #9157 it's a little difficult to find.

Sigh.

Then talk to Manyak. Send him a private message every time you see a possible improvement. Posting replies like this doesn't do any good.


----------



## ripster

My Filco one is genuine leather (difference between split and full grain). I'm sniffing it right now.


----------



## lmnop

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=10238

Quote:

"But Majestouch, you already sell leather palm rests from FILCO! What are you trying to pull?"

Correct, however, one day I got to wondering about the FILCO palm rests (even tore one apart for the sake of curiosity to see if they were really leather as advertised). Yes, the FILCO palm rests do the job quite well, and they look nice, and the top is some kind of leather textile, but they smell only of rubber, feel a bit like rubber, and much to my detest, they are made in mainland China. (Notice: This is not the thread for political arguments, feel free to send me a PM if you want to argue.)

Sizes: Medium and Large to fit FILCO and Realforce keyboards; dimensions are very close to that of the FILCO palmrests; height is 15mm.

Construction: Inner foam is a tad softer than the FILCO rests and they weigh a just a little bit more (metal plate in the base).

Availability: July-August












it smells like leather, looks like leather but it's not leather.


----------



## FaLLeNAn9eL

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
it should but will it?

I think..

3M Silicone Gel Wrist Pad = leatherette with silicone and base plate.
Filco Palm Rest = leather textile with soft foam and a base plate.
Filco 3 Star = genuine leather with softer foam and a base plate.

thanks to majestouch.

Added to the first page or not, you're still getting a rep for it.


----------



## ira-k

Guys please try to stay on topic and stop the petty bickering.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ira-k* 
Guys please try to stay on topic and stop the petty bickering.

This just gives Ripster more ammo.


----------



## ripster

So back to topic.

Leather. Translated from Diatec website.

Quote:

Majestouch zero or perfect, palm adult

表面に牛本革ポリウレタンコーティングを採用。 Polyurethane coating applied to the surface of cow leather.
柔軟でソフト感がありつつ、丈夫で耐久性・耐水性にも優れています。 There is a sense of being soft, flexible, has excellent durability, durable water resistant.
芯材にスチールを採用していますのでどっしりと重く安定感があり、机の上で滑りにくくしました 。 There is a massive sense of stability so heavy steel core material adopted for the slip on the desk.
クッション材は適度な柔らかさと安定感を持つ発泡ウレタンで、手首を優しく支えます。 Polyurethane foam cushion is soft and has a moderate stability, and support your wrist gently.
クッションの高さを13mmと18mmの2段階にしてありますので、体勢や使用するキーボードの高さに合わ せて使いやすい向きにすることができます。 13mm and 18mm height of the cushion, so to have two phases, the orientation can be easy to match the height of posture and keyboard use.
Another clue. Mooooooo........









And from Wikipedia here are the two types of leather most commonly used in higher end products.

Quote:

* Full-grain leather refers to the leather which has not had the upper "top grain" and "split" layers separated. The upper section of a hide that previously contained the epidermis and hair, but were removed from the hide/skin. Full-grain refers to hides that have not been sanded, buffed, or snuffed (as opposed to top-grain or corrected leather) to remove imperfections (or natural marks) on the surface of the hide. The grain remains allowing the fiber strength and durability. The grain also has breathability, resulting in less moisture from prolonged contact. Rather than wearing out, it will develop a patina over time. Leather furniture and footwear are made from full-grain leather. Full-grain leathers are typically available in two finish types: aniline and semi-aniline.

* Top-grain leather is the second-highest quality and has had the "split" layer separated away, making it thinner and more pliable than full grain. Its surface has been sanded and a finish coat added to the surface which results in a colder, plastic feel with less breathability, and will not develop a natural patina. It is typically less expensive, and has greater resistance to stains than full-grain leather, so long as the finish remains unbroken.
The 3 Star uses the higher grade but is ridiculously expensive.


----------



## NrGx

This thread is unbelievably popular on Twitter...I was amazed.


----------



## ripster

I would just like to say to APLUSK I hate your movies.


----------



## v193r

i cant decide between the filco medium and 3star medium wrist pads. im worried the two levels on the filco will annoy me or that ill be distracting.
i hear alot of ppl on here are really pleased with their FILCO Medium Leather Palm Rest. convince me i wont not like the two levels.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *v193r* 
i cant decide between the filco medium and 3star medium wrist pads. im worried the two levels on the filco will annoy me or that ill be distracting.
i hear alot of ppl on here are really pleased with their FILCO Medium Leather Palm Rest. convince me i wont not like the two levels.

That wrist rest is fine, but here's one that costs $20.39 shipped:

http://www.buy.com/prod/3m-gel-comfo...207552247.html

I see this wrist rest highly recommended every time somebody asks for recommendations.


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
That wrist rest is fine, but here's one that costs $20.39 shipped:

http://www.buy.com/prod/3m-gel-comfo...207552247.html

I see this wrist rest highly recommended every time somebody asks for recommendations.

i need one around the length of my hhkb. im between the
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=634
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...ts&pid=hm_prmb
just read that the 3 star leather rest needs to be kept away from heat. its on the url above. this might be a problem as i use my hhkb on top my laptop keyboard and have my wrist rest directly in front of it. it gets warm but not hot.


----------



## lmnop

what happened to my post?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
what happened to my post?

Wait a sec... which one?


----------



## ripster

Was it about leather?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
what happened to my post?

You know the drill...


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Is it true that the preferred typing style on a Realforce is bottoming out? It feels ridiculous to try not to bottom out on this thing.

But bottoming out feels soooooo good on this


----------



## ch_123

Yeah, I always bottom out on my HHKB. The tactility is located at the top of the switch so it's particularly hard not to bottom out on it.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Man I love this keyboard. I am recommending it to everyone.

Then they come back to me and say, $235 FOR A KEYBOARD?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!


----------



## Crazy9000

I'm with you Lars, it's an awesome keyboard







.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
Man I love this keyboard. I am recommending it to everyone.

Then they come back to me and say, $235 FOR A KEYBOARD?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!

They don't know what they're missing out on.


----------



## Maytan

For $235, whatever I'm missing out I'm fine with missing out on.


----------



## runeazn

lil note for people in eu.
i am going to ship some OCn topre or cherry esc keys to holland and if you would like on shoot me a pm


----------



## nonamed

Could anyone help me how to remove keys like Shift, Space, Enter etc... [those with I guess metal bar]

I got DasKeyboard and do not want to break anything.

Any pics ? How these keys are mounted ?? :/
Thanks for help


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonamed* 
Could anyone help me how to remove keys like Shift, Space, Enter etc... [those with I guess metal bar]

I got DasKeyboard and do not want to break anything.

Any pics ? How these keys are mounted ?? :/
Thanks for help

use this?
http://hooleon.com/miva/merchant.mvc...roduct_Count=2


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
use this?
http://hooleon.com/miva/merchant.mvc...roduct_Count=2

He's asking how to deal with the stabilizers.


----------



## fssbzz

by [email protected] forum aka squarebox in overclock.net


----------



## nonamed

@fssbzz

Thanks a lot. I will wait with removing till I get this puller .

One more question, how this keys 'stabilizers' look like in Cherry switches ?? Can not find any closer photo









Edit:

I did found this one (not sure if it looks the same in Das & Filco keyboards) :








but I still wonder... When I remove this key like CTRL as shown above, Does this 'metal bar' stay in place or is removed in pair with key ?? :/


----------



## lmnop

Ducky uses Cherry stabilizers. Das uses Costar stabilizers.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmnop* 
Ducky uses Cherry stabilizers. Das uses Costar stabilizers.






Cherry stabilizers... my mortal enemy...

rageface.jpg


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonamed* 









Nice pic. Later in the thread is the youtube video showing the slickest way.


----------



## Maytan

Also, lmnop. I tried doing what that Korean guy did and didn't work. I pulled for infinity and nothing came off, so I gave up since I didn't wanna' break it again.


----------



## ripster

Notice in that video it's out of the case.

Not a very helpful video actually. I change my opinion of it.


----------



## FaLLeNAn9eL

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Notice in that video it's out of the case.

Not a very helpful video actually. I change my opinion of it.

What do you mean? It does a great job explaining how to remove the keys. Firmly pull up, then wiggle the tabs out. It requires a bit of finesse but its not rocket science.


----------



## ripster

Maytan, did you take the keyboard out of the case first? (probably not).

Did you remove the key next to it and shift in that direction?

No disrespect to the video creator. Maybe the full instructions were in Korean.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FaLLeNAn9eL* 
What do you mean? It does a great job explaining how to remove the keys. Firmly pull up, then wiggle the tabs out. It requires a bit of finesse but its not rocket science.

Disagree. It's far harder than it looks.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Maytan, did you take the keyboard out of the case first? (probably not).

Did you remove the key next to it and shift in that direction?

Of course not (referring to taking it out of the case), my warranty is the only thing standing between my bad luck and my keyboard.

I removed the the 9, 0, -, =, p, [, ], \\, ;, ', Win key, Page key, CTRL key, and then lift both Enter and Shift off the stems and shifted them downward. (while still on the stabilizer) to give me more room. The Backspace key WILL NOT come off of the white caps. I pulled so hard I snapped one, which Das luckily replaced. (replaced the keyboard, that is. They couldn't replace just the piece as they don't stock extra parts.) So when I got the new board (which is my 3rd Das, btw.) It started squeaking (for a 3rd time) after a couple weeks. I gave it a few months to see if it'd go away, and even tried lubing it up fairly liberally with some White Lithium Grease. The squeak seems to have gotten louder if anything.

I tried doing EXACTLY what was done in that video. But I got to a point where I felt like I was going to snap the plastic piece again, so I gave up. Thinking about going for RMA #3, but I hate having to act like the insane person when talking to their support. (At this point, she's probably thinking I'm the biggest perfectionist ever. Considering the 2nd time I sent it back they couldn't even hear any squeaking, while I heard it fine.) In total, I've spent about $180 on this keyboard. 2 RMAs, polish, and grease that did me no good. Quite disappointing, but it's much nicer than anything else I've typed on thus far.

I had decided to replace it with a Unicomp, but I think Buckling Springs will be a bit too heavy for my gaming. (mostly on the pinky) I'm still big on that front, after all.


----------



## FaLLeNAn9eL

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Disagree. It's far harder than it looks.

Lol. Either I got lucky or I'm doing it wrong.


----------



## ripster

I'm not letting Maytan near my keyboards.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
I'm not letting Maytan near my keyboards.

I don't blame you.









I added a few paragraphs to my previous post, by the way.


----------



## ripster

You're not trying to remove the white thing. You're flexing the metal thing enough to gently lift off.

Korean instructions are inscrutable.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
You're not trying to remove the white thing. You're flexing the metal thing enough to gently lift off.

Korean instructions are inscrutable.

I know that. The first time lmnop told me how to do it, I thought she was telling me to pull it off the white cap. Which is why I broke it.

I tried doing it EXACTLY like in that video, and I'm too afraid of breaking once I get to a certain point of exerted pressure.


----------



## Crazy9000

I'd trade my Das with you just so you'd have one that doesn't squeak, but mine is an old one that has to be plugged into a powered USB hub, and I broke one of the USB ports lol.


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runeazn* 
lil note for people in eu.
i am going to ship some OCn topre or cherry esc keys to holland and if you would like on shoot me a pm









you got a red ocn key for topre?


----------



## Crazy9000

He means the alps\\ABS one I think.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I'd trade my Das with you just so you'd have one that doesn't squeak, but mine is an old one that has to be plugged into a powered USB hub, and I broke one of the USB ports lol.

Aw, I appreciate your kindness.









'course, after I buy a powered HUB I could just pay for the RMA shipping.

Hmm. Third time's the charm, right? While this may be the third board, it's only the second RMA. Maybe, just maybe I'll get lucky this time.


----------



## nonamed

So it will be pretty hard to remove keys with stabilizers in Das Keyboard Model S Professional without removing top cover/case ?? :/ as shown.. in this video:

  
 



  



 

Ammmm I righttt ? :/


----------



## tryagainplss

apparently, I knew nothing about keyboards...
10/10


----------



## lmnop

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nonamed*


So it will be pretty hard to remove keys with stabilizers in Das Keyboard Model S Professional without removing top cover/case ?? :/ as shown.. in this video:






Ammmm I righttt ? :/


it helps to have room if you remove surrounding keys or the face plate but I don't think it's absolutely necessary. your removing a key not splitting the atom.


----------



## nonamed

Thank you.

one more... 
Does Filco keys have the same shape/size as those in DasKeyboards ?? I would like to replace half of my Das keys with blank keys from Filco Majestouch .

Will they fit fine ?

http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=639

I assume this Filco Keyset comes already with this 'white plastic' on keys with stabilizers like Shift,Enter etc. ?? :/


----------



## lmnop

yes.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


it helps to have room if you remove surrounding keys or the face plate but I don't think it's absolutely necessary. your removing a key not splitting the atom.


But I thought Maytan wanted to work for the Iranians?

He now broke my Das record of two RMAs!









This pic is on topic and is a physics joke for Dr. Maytan.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


it helps to have room if you remove surrounding keys or the face plate but I don't think it's absolutely necessary. your removing a key not splitting the atom.


There's very little difference in difficulty between the two.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


But I thought Maytan wanted to work for the Iranians?

He now broke my Das record of two RMAs!


Quite the accomplishment, eh? May I ask, why did you RMA your Das? Just curious.

Quote:











This pic is on topic and is a physics joke for Dr. Maytan.


Haha, nice one.


----------



## ripster

The older version had controller issues. I never saw the transposition one but would have frequent USB dropouts. Both were fixed with a new controller/firmware in the Das S.

Another indication that Costar made keyboards are not all the same. I expect Ducky, KBC, Plum, Razer all to have similar minor quality problems until they figure out the keyboard business. Although losing connectivity randomly was a real PITA with the Das III.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


The older version had controller issues. I never saw the transposition one but would have frequent USB dropouts. Both were fixed with a new controller/firmware in the Das S.

Another indication that Costar made keyboards are not all the same. I expect Ducky, KBC, Plum, Razer all to have similar minor quality problems until they figure out the keyboard business. Although losing connectivity randomly was a real PITA with the Das III.


Oh, it was an older Das. I was thinking it was a newer model.

One thing I'm wishing is that I had bought the Ultimate version. After having this board, I've noticed the printing on the Das isn't all that nice. It seems rather inconsistent across the keys, both in color and actual smoothness. (Now I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I've yet to see a board with seemingly perfect printing. Just being nit-picky.)


----------



## ripster

You're being nitpicky. Just don't break them and they'll be fine for a long time.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


You're being nitpicky.


I know, I just said that.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


The older version had controller issues. I never saw the transposition one but would have frequent USB dropouts. Both were fixed with a new controller/firmware in the Das S.

Another indication that Costar made keyboards are not all the same. I expect Ducky, KBC, Plum, Razer all to have similar minor quality problems until they figure out the keyboard business. Although losing connectivity randomly was a real PITA with the Das III.


You just needed to use a powered USB hub, then there are no dropouts ever.


----------



## ripster

Uh, I tried that. It was a known controller issue well documented at a certain other place.


----------



## lmnop

looks like the iOne Scorpius M10 has a reissue. Cherry MX Brown and Blue switches with N-Key rollover.

source


----------



## LarsMarkelson

So I love my Topre but I'm realizing I like the keys that have heavier weight. They have more spring back and are a lot less mushy.

What should I get? I love my Tenkeyless too. The 87u is clearly the best option but not in stock anymore. I was thinking about trying a Unicomp space saver, but I'll lose the Topre clay tablet awesomeness.

A 60g Topre clicky Tenkeyless keyboard would probably be my dream.


----------



## webwit

Don't think there is such a thing as 60g topre, but maybe I am wrong.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


Don't think there is such a thing as 60g topre, but maybe I am wrong.


I'm pretty sure that's why he described such a keyboard as "[his] dream". It doesn't exist; hence, he must fantasize about it.


----------



## Crazy9000

Isn't the 55g close enough?


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Isn't the 55g close enough?


Yeah definitely, but only if it were in stock!! I really want the 87u 55g.

I just showed my coworker my keyboard and now he is getting an HHKB2







He also agreed that the Topre is better than the Filco (letting my office mate use my Filco Blue 10keyless as I am not using it anymore). He said Filco was too loud, and the bottoming out is much nicer on the Topre. Plus the Topre has an AWESOME sound of bottoming out, he really liked it, I do too









It all started with this link: http://www.node.mu/2009/03/24/topre-realforce-86u/

Quote:



I've had the Topre Realforce 86U tenkeyless (no numeric keypad) board for several months now. It is my all time favorite when it comes to keyboards. It's got a superlative key feel and a fantastic build quality. Plus it comes with a red esc key. That has to count for something









The tactile feedback; the soft, rhythmic thock thock of the keys on the way back up; the sheer poetry of cutting code in Vim while I'm in the zone. That's the drug I live on. The creative high that I keep chasing. The reason why I program.


It's so true though, I love the way this feels. It's like harmony on your fingers. I think though I would really like the HHKB too, so I'm glad he is getting one because I want to check out the 45g uniform goodness. Also though would buy the 87u 55g uniform immediately if it ever comes back. If someone has one for sale and you know about it, please lmk


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Soooooo, apparently the HHKB is not as good as the Realforce in terms of key feel.

This is disappointing. I've told my friend to cancel his order! Now I realllllllllly want an 87u 55g, DANG COME BACK IN STOCK PLZ! ripster? want to sell yours?









http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?tit...ight=realforce
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?tit...87&do=comments
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t...highlight=hhkb

Relevant threads comparing HHKB2 key feel to Realforce.


----------



## Crazy9000

Not as good, but it's still good.


----------



## ripster

You should try a DataHand.


----------



## Gnomepatrol

Thought i would ask i bought a rosewill rk-9000 and i love the keyboard, but it did not come with a usb to ps2 adapter. Anyone know where i can pick up one that is confirmed to work with keyboards? I ask confirmed just due to the fact i ahve seen many that people say do not work.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


deleted.


ripster, please undelete or post something else









btw all,

maybe i should just skip this 55g realforce quest and go straight to the datahand










Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


You should try a DataHand.











loool. maybe. man, i wonder if they do loaners?


----------



## Phatal

I need a new keyboard and have a budget of $150, can anyone recommend me to something good?


----------



## thiru

Do you want it for gaming or typing or both?


----------



## Phatal

Both, I don't really play many games but when I have time I probably play a game or two.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*


So I love my Topre but I'm realizing I like the keys that have heavier weight. They have more spring back and are a lot less mushy.

What should I get? I love my Tenkeyless too. The 87u is clearly the best option but not in stock anymore. I was thinking about trying a Unicomp space saver, but I'll lose the Topre clay tablet awesomeness.

A 60g Topre clicky Tenkeyless keyboard would probably be my dream.


The high-force Topres (55g) aren't that great, they just bottom out harder than the lower force ones.

I'd get a Unicomp









Quote:



Soooooo, apparently the HHKB is not as good as the Realforce in terms of key feel.

This is disappointing. I've told my friend to cancel his order! Now I realllllllllly want an 87u 55g, DANG COME BACK IN STOCK PLZ! ripster? want to sell yours?


The HHKB is still an excellent keyboard to type on. I wouldn't cancel the order just because it's not as good as the Realforce.


----------



## webwit

I like how some people claim the HHKB has a worse key feel than the Realforce, even when pressing a key slowly. It's like saying that if Cherry produces and releases two boards with blue switches, one with plate and one not, people start to see differences in the identical switches. Similarly, my guess is that if they drive the same car on concrete or off-road, they imagine it's the car that changed, not the road.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


The high-force Topres (55g) aren't that great, they just bottom out harder than the lower force ones.

I'd get a Unicomp









The HHKB is still an excellent keyboard to type on. I wouldn't cancel the order just because it's not as good as the Realforce.


I'm looking into Unicomp. I think another co-worker of mine is going to get one actually, lol.

Yeah, it probably is a great keyboard, but he already canceled and is getting the 86u







He said he wanted the typing experience that my keyboard has, because he really liked that. If the HHKB was going to be different, he wasn't sure. Plus he uses the Function keys a lot, so it's nice to have those as standalone keys.


----------



## lmnop

did somebody post the iOne Scorpius M10 reissue already? or does no one care?

if you ask me a iOne Scorpius M10 with Cherry MX Brown switches and N-Key Rollover at a low price is pretty attractive.


----------



## ripster

I don't care until it hits American shores.

Why are there so many obsolete keyboards like the RealForce 87U in the OP? That sort of stuff I think is more on-topic.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


did somebody post the iOne Scorpius M10 reissue already? or does no one care?

if you ask me a iOne Scorpius M10 with Cherry MX Brown switches and N-Key Rollover at a low price is pretty attractive.


I'm actually interested.

I looked at the link, and it looks pretty standard except you can see cutouts for USB & Audio Passthrough ports









As long as the price comes in at Sub $100, I'll be happy. 
That and if they show up on Newegg and whatnot.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phatal*


Both, I don't really play many games but when I have time I probably play a game or two.


Well in that case you might want to go for typing switches anyway, the blue switch. It's tactile (good for writing) and clicky (which may be bad if you really can't have any noise). Some people have problems playing with it but as a very casual gamer you shouldn't have any problems.

You can get the Rosewill mechanical keyboard for cheaper, or the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click or Das Model S (non-silent) for better quality.
I would get the Das simply because they have a 1 month return policy no questions asked, in case you don't like it and would prefer brown switches (non clicky, lighter keys).


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*


So I love my Topre but I'm realizing I like the keys that have heavier weight. They have more spring back and are a lot less mushy.

What should I get? I love my Tenkeyless too. The 87u is clearly the best option but not in stock anymore. I was thinking about trying a Unicomp space saver, but I'll lose the Topre clay tablet awesomeness.

A 60g Topre clicky Tenkeyless keyboard would probably be my dream.


The SpaceSaver definitely looks like a good option, except it's not Tenkeyless.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gnomepatrol*


Thought i would ask i bought a rosewill rk-9000 and i love the keyboard, but it did not come with a usb to ps2 adapter. Anyone know where i can pick up one that is confirmed to work with keyboards? I ask confirmed just due to the fact i ahve seen many that people say do not work.


Any USB to PS/2 adapter that is purple and said to be designed for keyboards should work correctly. For example, this one would work:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812200349

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phatal*


Both, I don't really play many games but when I have time I probably play a game or two.


One great option is the Rosewill RK-9000 which is basically identical to the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO, except the RK-9000 doesn't include a USB to PS/2 adapter for some reason. So, I recommend this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812200349

If you order the keyboard and the adapter at the same time, then the combined total is $99.00 shipped!


----------



## Ikrin

Any recommendations for a PS/2 to USB adapter for a Model M?


----------



## thiru

edit: oops read wrong.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ikrin* 
Any recommendations for a PS/2 to USB adapter for a Model M?

The Blue Cube:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=9351


----------



## karazi

I bought a 99 cent purple USB to PS/2 off ebay, shipped from HK in about 1.5 weeks. Works great.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karazi* 
I bought a 99 cent purple USB to PS/2 off ebay, shipped from HK in about 1.5 weeks. Works great.

I think he's talking about an adapter that goes the other way around...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


I think he's talking about an adapter that goes the other way around...


He could also be continuing from this:

http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/4...l#post11146033


----------



## crabbypants

TwoCables, I'm looking at buying a mech keyboard and noticed you were from St.Paul. Do you know of any stores in the mpls/stpaul area that has these to try out?


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


He could also be continuing from this:

http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/4...l#post11146033





















Um.., no. I was asking for a PS/2 to USB adapter for the Model M.. Is there any other seller other than Amazon UK for that blue cube linked in that thread posted by gonX?


----------



## rxkevin

How do the Topres do for gaming? I am assuming I would want the 55g one for gaming vs the standard variable weight keys?

I type a lot as I do a lot of writing for work etc, but I am finding it very hard to game on blue switches. Getting ready for Black Ops so I was looking for a keyboard recommendation.


----------



## ch_123

I posted a big description about this some time again, long story short they're very good. I use the 45g HHKB and it works fine, so you could probably get the variable weight one, they're arguably better for typing on as well.


----------



## Ksireaper

I decided to make the switch from rubber dome to a mechanical.

I was going to get the new Razer keyboard but the lycosa really put a bad taste in my mouth for razer.

I have decided to get the XArmor U9BL but i am concerned with the rubber coating after what happened to my Lycosa.

Does anyone have any expreience with this keyboard that con give some insight to the coating on the keycaps? I like the keyboard but "rubber coating" makes me nervous to buy it.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ksireaper*


I decided to make the switch from rubber dome to a mechanical.

I was going to get the new Razer keyboard but the lycosa really put a bad taste in my mouth for razer.

I have decided to get the XArmor U9BL but i am concerned with the rubber coating after what happened to my Lycosa.

Does anyone have any expreience with this keyboard that con give some insight to the coating on the keycaps? I like the keyboard but "rubber coating" makes me nervous to buy it.


Its slightly rubber coated. I haven't used mine long enough to see any wear though. (Not a big fan of rubber coating :\\)


----------



## webwit

I am watching at the "Key Printing Methods" section, but there seem to be some omissions.

Why stop at double shot when you can go triple?

Attachment 178513

WHY STOP THERE? Quadruple-shot.

Attachment 178514

Attachment 178515

Pics by MyKBD


----------



## ripster

I don't think MyKBD pic quality is quite up to our Guides standards.

What happened to my pics watermarks?


----------



## webwit

Those are not your pics, they belong to OCN. Better write for permission if you want to use them. By the way, these Koreans (like quad boy MyKBD) are nuts, here's some guy flashing a broken keyboard.


----------



## ripster

I find that OTD site difficult to read but filled with inscrutable Asian pics.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crabbypants* 
TwoCables, I'm looking at buying a mech keyboard and noticed you were from St.Paul. Do you know of any stores in the mpls/stpaul area that has these to try out?

I honestly don't know; I've never even considered trying to find out.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ikrin* 









Um.., no. I was asking for a PS/2 to USB adapter for the Model M.. Is there any other seller other than Amazon UK for that blue cube linked in that thread posted by gonX?

Um.., yes. He's replying to this post:

http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/4...l#post11142423

Then in my reply, I specifically mentioned a *purple* USB to PS/2 adapter. So yes: he is continuing from that discussion.

This does not mean that I am oblivious to your question. I know you asked it, and I understand that you were asking for a PS/2 to USB adapter.


----------



## Ikrin

I see. My bad. Just wasn't sure based on the context of multiple similar questions.


----------



## webwit

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
I find that OTD site difficult to read but filled with inscrutable Asian pics.

There are better threads than that on the Korean keyboard forums. I have a new unfulfilled triple shot keycap obsession. I trolled signature plastics earlier and asked them if they could do something like that, but they did not answer my email. When I sent a second email, they did not answer that either. Melissa sucks. She'll realize this herself once I flash my expensive triple shot key caps on the internets, and raving review of the company which managed to do it, while mentioning signature plastics didn't even answer.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ikrin* 









Um.., no. I was asking for a PS/2 to USB adapter for the Model M.. Is there any other seller other than Amazon UK for that blue cube linked in that thread posted by gonX?

Belkin's USB adapter is readily available from a lot of common online retailers around the world, and is actually a better USB adapter than the Blue Cube. More expensive though.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *webwit* 
Those are not your pics, they belong to OCN. Better write for permission if you want to use them. By the way, these Koreans (like quad boy MyKBD) are nuts, here's some guy flashing a broken keyboard.

(From a link at the bottom of that page)



















Christ of almighty...


----------



## losttsol

Regarding the Cherry keyboards with "EU" in the model number (I assume this means European version), how do these differ from the "US" versions?


----------



## thiru

The small left Shift key is the biggest change. I can't type or even play FPS with a EU keyboard because I click / instead.


----------



## losttsol

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 

The small left Shift key is the biggest change. I can't type or even play FPS with a EU keyboard because I click / instead.

This keyboard is listed as a G80-11900LUMEU, has the extra euro icon on the 5 key, but I don't see any other difference to it, do you?










Edit: Also does anyone know for sure if this has the black switches like I think it does?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *losttsol* 
This keyboard is listed as a G80-11900LUMEU, has the extra euro icon on the 5 key, but I don't see any other difference to it, do you?










No but that's not a standard EU keyboard.


----------



## Crazy9000

I don't think that's the right picture. If you look at provantage, it has the funny enter key and everything.

http://www.provantage.com/cherry-ele...u~7CHER027.htm


----------



## losttsol

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I don't think that's the right picture. If you look at provantage, it has the funny enter key and everything.

http://www.provantage.com/cherry-electronics-g80-11900lumeu~7CHER027.htm

Ya, that is different. I just looked again though, and the one I posted has a "-2" on the end of the model number. The one you posted has a "-0". Don't know if that makes a difference, but I'll have to research it further. Being it has a Euro 5 key, I'm thinking it might be a correct picture.


----------



## thiru

They always have the picture wrong.


----------



## losttsol

I got an email back from the person selling it. He said it is the actual picture of the one he's selling. Must be for Europeans who like the US layout better, but still want to be able to type a "€". By the way, how would you get to that third character?


----------



## kyle-reece

Quote:


Originally Posted by *losttsol* 
I got an email back from the person selling it. He said it is the actual picture of the one he's selling. Must be for Europeans who like the US layout better, but still want to be able to type a "â‚¬". By the way, how would you get to that third character?

ctrl+alt/alt gr same for the Â¦ in the top left


----------



## Wiremaster

Ok, I don't feel like reading this entire thread to see if this has been asked.

Are there any tenkeyless keyboards in production with MX White switches? I'd love a Filco tenkeyless with Whites.


----------



## Ikrin

I don't think elitekeyboards offers any Filcos in white. Deck only offers clears and blacks... Your best option is to try to find a Cherry keyboard on eBay.


----------



## Wiremaster

Oh! I mean clears. D'oh!

Wasn't there a Filco Zero a while back?


----------



## webwit

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wiremaster* 
Oh! I mean clears. D'oh!

Wasn't there a Filco Zero a while back?

May I flaunt my Zeros in your general direction?

http://webwit.nl/input/filco/***ka/1.jpg

http://webwit.nl/input/filco/***ka/4.jpg


----------



## gonX

webwit, I fart in your general direction.
Send me one of those keyboards pl0x


----------



## webwit

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
webwit, I fart in your general direction.
Send me one of those keyboards pl0x









You need to work on your powers of persuasion.


----------



## Wiremaster

webwit. Wow. Why do you have eight?


----------



## thisispatrick

The more the merrier!


----------



## max302

Guys, I've got a Dell AT101 and a Dell Model M, would anybody be interested?

If not, what do these boards usually sell for? I got them because I though I would get sick of the cherry browns on my Compaq G80, but turns out it's still my favorite, and I need some room.

PM an offer if anybody is interested.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

You need to make a thread in the appropriate section if you want to sell anything, or if you want an idea of how much to sell for, use the Appraisals section. You have more than enough rep to do this.


----------



## webwit

I started with four to have four switch types in the same format (tenkeyless which I prefer) so I and the scared people I demonstrate these to, can experience the difference. These are the Cherry Blue, Brown and Black and the ***ka switches. Then there was a sale of the Zero with XM switches and I bought two, one for the reasons above, one for modding. I didn't do the last and sold it to some crazy German 德国佬, you don't wanna know. Then came the white ones and I just had to have those. I mean, elitekeyboards especially made those because a guy like me just got to have them, can't let him down now, can I? I wonder what his next otaku fashion product troll will be.


----------



## max302

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
You need to make a thread in the appropriate section if you want to sell anything, or if you want an idea of how much to sell for, use the Appraisals section. You have more than enough rep to do this.

You and I both know that specialty products like these rarely get lots of views in the appraisals. What's the matter with an informal appraisal in a more appropriate thread?


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *webwit* 
May I flaunt my Zeros in your general direction?

http://webwit.nl/input/filco/***ka/1.jpg

Lmnop thinks your wristpad is vegan.

Elitekeyboards spread so much FUD on that one that even the FDA got concerned.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *webwit* 
I started with four to have four switch types in the same format (tenkeyless which I prefer) so I and the scared people I demonstrate these to, can experience the difference. These are the Cherry Blue, Brown and Black and the ***ka switches. Then there was a sale of the Zero with XM switches and I bought two, one for the reasons above, one for modding. I didn't do the last and sold it to some crazy German 德国佬, you don't wanna know. Then came the white ones and I just had to have those. I mean, elitekeyboards especially made those because a guy like me just got to have them, can't let him down now, can I? I wonder what his next otaku fashion product troll will be.

Your posts are much more entertaining if read in Heath Ledger's Joker voice.

Good movie, btw


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *max302* 
You and I both know that specialty products like these rarely get lots of views in the appraisals. What's the matter with an informal appraisal in a more appropriate thread?

It's NOT "a more appropriate thread", that's the matter. This is for discussing mechanical keyboards, NOT selling/appraising them. You've been here even longer than I have, long enough to know why you shouldn't be doing that.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

How do you keep your keys so oil free.


----------



## Ikrin

Wear gloves? Wipe them down regularly?







(Probably the latter)


----------



## Crazy9000

I think it's just a photo from right when he took it out of the box and got the cool keycaps.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *max302* 
You and I both know that specialty products like these rarely get lots of views in the appraisals. What's the matter with an informal appraisal in a more appropriate thread?

OCN strongly prefers to keep everything organized for the sake of its usability. I don't know of anyone who's going to come to the Mechanical Keyboard Guide just to give you an appraisal. So it's actually also for your benefit because you'll have your own thread which means that anyone who looks at your post is going to be doing so with the intention of giving you an appraisal.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
How do you keep your keys so oil free.

By never using your keyboard with oily/greasy fingers. Seriously: it is actually very easy to keep your keys clean when you really want to.

Or, are you talking about shiny keys? I mean if so, then that's not oil; it's just key wear.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Yeah that means washing your hands every 45 min. I remember when I was on my Irocks mx brown keyboard, during late night typing session for evolu genetics class you can start with clean hands by after a few hours it's already greased up. Thus it's improbable for me and my keyboards always gets greased up.










ewww sick gross

eidt, i've also tried to clean with alcohol wipes before. Doesn't work. The shine is always there now.


----------



## GeforceGTS

My Filco is never greasy but I wash my hands a lot, pretty much everytime I go for a smoke... The coating has still started to come off on my shift and ctrl keys though. It's really bugging me, looks like dirt but I've tried cleaning them and it's not







I guess I crouch to much when I'm gaming.


----------



## adamlau

I often thought that if it were not for me wanting to keep my keyboard clean that I would never wash my hands. Sad but true.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Yeah, maybe I should just take up smoking again to keep my keyboard clean.


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Yeah that means washing your hands every 45 min. I remember when I was on my Irocks mx brown keyboard, during late night typing session for evolu genetics class you can start with clean hands by after a few hours it's already greased up. Thus it's improbable for me and my keyboards always gets greased up.










ewww sick gross

eidt, i've also tried to clean with alcohol wipes before. Doesn't work. The shine is always there now.


That's key wear. It's not because the keyboard is oily.


----------



## max302

Stuff like this has been done in the sticked OCN Camera thread as a general heads-up to people who would potentially be interested, so I thought I could get away with it here, apparently not so.

Then have my excuses for the hijacking, I shall post an appraisal.


----------



## losttsol

Quote:



Originally Posted by *max302*


Stuff like this has been done in the sticked OCN Camera thread as a general heads-up to people who would potentially be interested, so I thought I could get away with it here, apparently not so.

Then have my excuses for the hijacking, I shall post an appraisal.


Just post a link in here to your appraisal and maybe one in your sig.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


That's key wear. It's not because the keyboard is oily.


Actually if you look closely you can see the texturing is still there.

This is shiny. Even the edges are rounded.









Psst...10 and 20-50 depending on condition however I will delete if you want to keep this 9000+ post strongly organized.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Actually if you look closely you can see the texturing is still there.

This is shiny. Even the edges are rounded.









Psst...10 and 20-50 depending on condition.


did u polished it?








or is the key wear off, but the double shot font still stay there.


----------



## nonamed

Today I get Filco blank keyset and replaced part of the keys in my DasKeyboard.

I was afraid of keys with stabilizers but everything was fine and without any problems. Somebody mentioned that had problems when replacing and had to RMA keyboard for 3 times... I wonder how it is possible









Here is how it presents now:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


did u polished it?








or is the key wear off, but the double shot font still stay there.

















This is from a Point Of Sale keyboard (probably a dry cleaners given the amount of lint in it).

But as you can see Double Shot keys look pretty good even when it's so worn the corners are rounded.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


This is from a Point Of Sale keyboard (probably a dry cleaners given the amount of lint in it).

But as you can see Double Shot keys look pretty good even when it's so worn the corners are rounded.


that double shot font still stays beautiful.
i bet u can even feel the font with your finger on that esc key.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
Yeah that means washing your hands every 45 min. I remember when I was on my Irocks mx brown keyboard, during late night typing session for evolu genetics class you can start with clean hands by after a few hours it's already greased up. Thus it's improbable for me and my keyboards always gets greased up.

What?

When I wash my hands, I'm good for _several_ hours. Do you wear really warm clothing and sit in a hot room and sweat constantly? I don't understand.

Or, do you only spend 15 seconds washing your hands?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 









ewww sick gross

eidt, i've also tried to clean with alcohol wipes before. Doesn't work. The shine is always there now.

That's key wear. I told you that before when I said _"Or, are you talking about shiny keys? I mean if so, then that's not oil; it's just key wear."_


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I still blame it on the nachos I eat while I type.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
I still blame it on the nachos I eat while I type.

So then are you just trolling us?


----------



## webwit

I registered to a Chinese keyboard forum (gotta keep an eye on those Duckies...), and after registration I got this automated PM.

I'm not sure what to do and what's required, any expert advise here? I normally keep my hair theming posts and keyboard talk separated.










Please advise. In the meantime I'm keeping them busy. Jawohl.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

I think you confused them as much as that automated PM confuses us.


----------



## webwit

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
I think you confused them

Sir, you know nothing. Don't let the weird characters confuse you, it's all German that they speak.


----------



## KipH

Its all Greek to me, and I live there









I did find some Duckies but now wife wont let me buy them







If you need help and know what you want let me know.


----------



## ripster

Bad Feng Shui.

The part of the upper shell that points towards you keeps breaking.

Ducky no Lucky.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Bad Feng Shui.

The part of the upper shell that points towards you keeps breaking.

Ducky no Lucky.

I have no idea what I'm looking at


----------



## ripster

Look down at your keyboard. Put your finger between the RCTRL key and Left Arrow key. Now imagine that piece broken and wiggling.

Looks like some bondo could fix it.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

ducky?

just get a realforce


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I think rip's got every single mechanical on the market already.

That irocks was just an older/bad picture. When I first got the irocks there was some grease that was unavoidable from long typing/gaming sessions. I don't eat at my comp.

I make the execption at ramen tho


----------



## ripster

Not my pic. From WhiteRice's review.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Look down at your keyboard. Put your finger between the RCTRL key and Left Arrow key. Now imagine that piece broken and wiggling.

That's a piece of plastic about 1/10" wide on my keyboard.


----------



## ripster

But it does imply Ducky not all that it's Quacked up to be by simply rattling off a feature list.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

ohh oohh awww you...


----------



## Ksireaper

Ok, so i got my Xarmor U9BL and i love it.

I only have 1 problem with it, when i shut my PC off, the keyboard does not turn off, it still stays on, as in athe LED on the boards all stay lit up.

i use the PS/2 port.

Is there a way in the Bios to kill power to the ps2 port when i shut the machine down?


----------



## BigT

there may be. you would have to check under the avanced power options. some motherboards use power on by ps2 keyboard, and thus keep the power to the board. if there is nothing in the bios your only option would be to hit the power switch on your power bar. when i turn my computer off for the night i turn off the power bar because the blinking leds on my three monitors telling me there is no signal piss me off. or you could always go to usb. if you are a wasd first person shooter kinda guy you may never know the diffference between the 6KRO and NKRO.


----------



## Ksireaper

Ya, ill check the bios when i get home.

Spent all night gaming last night and i think this is the best peripheral that i have picked up for gaming,

The response time and feel of the keyboard is so far ahead of any g15 or razer board out there.

I was getting an average of 5 to 6 kills more per game in Bad Company2 last night (but i still suck. lol)

Reaching certain keys for certain things is amazingly easy now that i am not on a cramped up keybord.

best 150 bucks i've spent in a while.

Will NEVER go back to a rubber dome.


----------



## gonX

If there's no option in the BIOS, there should be a jumper near the PS/2 port on your motherboard which will set it.


----------



## thisispatrick

I've been planning on picking up the Ducky 1087. Hopefully that gets fixed/is fixed because I'm going to get one anyways.


----------



## fssbzz

this question come across my mind
will the USB 3.0 make the kb support NKRO anytime? lol


----------



## Crazy9000

USB 3.0 won't change anything about USB keyboards.


----------



## Maytan

So, I've been busy trading items on TF2 for the last few days. What have I missed in the world of keyboards?


----------



## WhiteRice

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
I've been planning on picking up the Ducky 1087. Hopefully that gets fixed/is fixed because I'm going to get one anyways.

It barely affects the piece. If I twist the key board with my hands I can make it come up like 1mm, but if it's flat on my desk it doesn't move.

It's seems like something that could've been avoided, but it by no means ruins the keyboard.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
this question come across my mind
will the USB 3.0 make the kb support NKRO anytime? lol









The only thing that could effect keyboards with the USB Revision is USB 2.0 being Half-Duplex and USB 3.0 being Full-Duplex.
(Read here)

Though that would only change ports from being pass-over ports and having to use 2 cables, to being active ports and the use of one cable.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
USB 3.0 won't change anything about USB keyboards.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
The only thing that could effect keyboards with the USB Revision is USB 2.0 being Half-Duplex and USB 3.0 being Full-Duplex.
(Read here)

Though that would only change ports from being pass-over ports and having to use 2 cables, to being active ports and the use of one cable.

tthanks
that is good to know.
learn new things


----------



## ripster

USB 3.0 is more power. As in amps.

Puts PS/2 to shame.

P.S. Maytan - not much happening. A few more keyboards have gone obsolete in the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide that's all.


----------



## runeazn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
USB 3.0 is more power. As in amps.

Puts PS/2 to shame.

P.S. Maytan - not much happening. A few more keyboards have gone obsolete in the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide that's all.

But PS/2 is still betta


----------



## ripster

Well, THAT was one of the most convincing arguments in this whole thread.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Well, THAT was one of the most convincing arguments in this whole thread.

What, do you mean "PS/2 > USB" isn't a good argument? That's completely silly. You silly, silly person, ripster


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
USB 3.0 is more power. As in amps.

Puts PS/2 to shame.

P.S. Maytan - not much happening. A few more keyboards have gone obsolete in the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide that's all.

"USB 3.0 is more power" sounds like terrible "Engrish."

USB 3.0 Design Guidelines say you have the potential for more power, but the underlying minimum amperage requirement has not changed.

Though, USB 2.0 vs USB 3.0 in terms of amperage is a null point. As USB 3.0 is still in draft and they both state as their minimum requirement that a single USB port is require to output between 100mA & 500mA (1 to 5 devices) at a voltage of 5v +/- .25v

It's all semantics in regards to Keyboards as well.

Though; USB 2.0 has no electrical limit on what it can output; as proven by Gigabyte as they increased their USB 2.0 ports to 1500mA max current and their USB 3.0 ports to 2700mA max current.

The only reason the ports have a difference in current is because of the source they come from. (IE: Southbridge vs NEC Controller IC's)


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
P.S. Maytan - not much happening. A few more keyboards have gone obsolete in the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide that's all.

Ah, I see.


----------



## ripster

Brits think Americans speak Engrish.

Moah Powah!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Brits think Americans speak Engrish.

Moah Powah!

That's a general overview which doesn't tell the whole story. Minimum required is still 100mA. Suggested is 150mA.


----------



## ripster

Nah, it'll kick firewires butt. You'd have to be a pretty stupid vendor to not supply more power when so many devices are solely relying on it. Otherwise you might as well go eSATA.

Notice it also has support for interrupt driven operation. But you'll never see USB 3.0 keyboards - the whole IRQ vs Polling thing in the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide isn't a big deal.

Even Steelseries will start abandoning PS/2 in their next round of keyboards if they want to compete with Razer.


----------



## Tator Tot

I doubt we'll see PS/2 adapters dropped.
And yeah you'd have to be stupid to only supply 100mA to a USB 3.0 port.

Still USB vs PS/2 is pretty Nill in itself. As long as WSAD & the Arrow keys are optimized for 6KRO then most people will be more than satisfied.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I doubt we'll see PS/2 adapters dropped.
And yeah you'd have to be stupid to only supply 100mA to a USB 3.0 port.

Still USB vs PS/2 is pretty Nill in itself. As long as WSAD & the Arrow keys are optimized for 6KRO then most people will be more than satisfied.

Well theoretically if the keyboard has 6KRO, you don't need optimization. I wish they would increase the limit to around 10, as that is much safer, but 6 does seem to work fine 99% of the time.

However, I don't see why you wouldn't use PS/2 if your board supports it, and you have the PS/2 keyboard port just sitting there on your motherboard... it's not like you might want to plug a ipod into the PS/2 port or something.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Still USB vs PS/2 is pretty Nill in itself. As long as WSAD & the Arrow keys are optimized for 6KRO then most people will be more than satisfied.

That's what even those old fogeys at Geekhacks on their 2KRO buckling springs concluded (with statistical significance even!).

Too bad the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide doesn't say that.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

I actually much prefer USB now over PS2 though I used to like PS2. USB is awesome because it is plug and play. So annoying to have to restart with PS2. Then again, I have some weird computer setups and I switch keyboards a lot lately.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Well theoretically if the keyboard has 6KRO, you don't need optimization. I wish they would increase the limit to around 10, as that is much safer, but 6 does seem to work fine 99% of the time.

They can't just increase that limit. Though they can make a USB 3.0 Keyboard interrupt based which would take one knock off what PS/2 has over USB.

And you would still need to optimize things, because the Blackwidow is 6KRO but using both Arrows & WSAD together can cause some blocking.

6KRO does not mean you will not have key blocking or transposition issues.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
However, I don't see why you wouldn't use PS/2 if your board supports it, and you have the PS/2 keyboard port just sitting there on your motherboard... it's not like you might want to plug a ipod into the PS/2 port or something.

I pretty much use the PS/2 port just for my keyboard. Though PS/2 ports are still highly favored in the IT world for KVM Switches.
I think PS/2 Keyboard & Mouse combo ports are the way to go for board makers.

It keeps backwards compatibility, allows you to have 2 extra USB ports, and still the benefits for where PS/2 comes in.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ripster* 
Too bad the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide doesn't say that.

I don't really mind. Yes PS/2 is better. Which is what it says.

Should there be an exert that says something along the lines of:
"While technically PS/2 is better, in most instances you will not need more than what USB offers in 6KRO"


----------



## fssbzz

i haven't see any modern motherboard get rid off the purple PS/2 yet.
so..PS/2 FTW!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
i haven't see any modern motherboard get rid off the purple PS/2 yet.
so..PS/2 FTW!

ECS, MSI, & Jetway have released boards without PS/2 ports.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
ECS, MSI, & Jetway have released boards without PS/2 ports.

Yup, and my old Intel DP35DP doesn't have PS/2 ports, either.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
ECS, MSI, & Jetway have released boards without PS/2 ports.

is it only happen on M-ATX board?
or all their board?

my new ASUS Crosshair IV have it.!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
They can't just increase that limit. Though they can make a USB 3.0 Keyboard interrupt based which would take one knock off what PS/2 has over USB.

And you would still need to optimize things, because the Blackwidow is 6KRO but using both Arrows & WSAD together can cause some blocking.

6KRO does not mean you will not have key blocking or transposition issues.


6KRO is referring to the minimum, not the maximum. If you have 6KRO, you will not have any blocking issues.

If on your keyboard you can get 24 keys to register at once, but when you press p and ] it won't let you press any more keys, then you only have 2KRO. If at any point the Razer can't press 6 keys, then it does not have 6KRO.

Most keyboards that have 6KRO have a matrix that would be able to do NKRO if they were a ps/2 board.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
is it only happen on M-ATX board?
or all their board?

my new ASUS Crosshair IV have it.!

ATX and mATX.

Though ECS's recent high end board: ECS P55h-AK, came with a PS/2 KBM Combo port.

It just depends on the board.


----------



## Faraz

I'm in the process of deciding between the Das Model S brown and the Filco Majestouch brown. I'm really leaning towards the Majestouch, but it says it's on backorder with a date of Nov 10. I hope their ETA dates are reliable, because I don't want to wait too long.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I just don't like the Das' reflective surface that leave finger prints so easily. I would wait for a filco.


----------



## ripster

Sometimes the Das doesn't work with the PS/2 adapter.

I think it's because the USB hub circuitry still draws some power despite not being enabled.

Not that PS/2 capability is a big deal....


----------



## BigT

das keyboards look like crap. they really do. i am sure they work really well but seriously...so ugly. i would wait for the filco. it will be worth it. once you get it you will have it for a long time. you dont want to look down at a das and think crap, i should have waited. lol


----------



## Wiremaster

I have to agree. They're shiny and weirdly-shaped, which are too huge no-nos in my book.


----------



## frickfrock999

Nvm.. thread came up


----------



## fssbzz

RK-9000 is deactivated in Newegg, and gone in Chiefvalue.
Discontinued?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


RK-9000 is deactivated in Newegg, and gone in Chiefvalue.
Discontinued?


I doubt it, 90% of the time; when anything goes "deactivated" it's usually just out of stock.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
I doubt it, 90% of the time; when anything goes "deactivated" it's usually just out of stock.

Really? Because every time I see something that's out of stock, it gets that "Auto-Notify" button and has "OUT OF STOCK" which is sometimes accompanied by an ETA.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Really? Because every time I see something that's out of stock, it gets that "Auto-Notify" button and has "OUT OF STOCK" which is sometimes accompanied by an ETA.

Good point. This would mean they at least don't know if/when a restock is coming.


----------



## fssbzz

nvm i did contact rosewill about it.

Quote:

Dear Valued Customer,

Thanks for your interest in Rosewill products. RK-9000 is currently out of stock due to high demand. However, Newegg will have inventory available by mid December.

The Rosewill Team


----------



## TwoCables

Whew. I was rolling my eyes at a dumb decision for the possibility that they discontinued it.

But now I see why they Deactivated it!


----------



## Ikrin

Yea, I was afraid they only had a limited run, due to the cost for manufacturing it. I hope there won't be any changes to affect the quality. I just gave mine away today as a gift.







Hoping there will be a sale so I can repuchase it.


----------



## max302

For those interested or who have a Canadian address they can ship to, Newegg.ca still has the boards.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Really? Because every time I see something that's out of stock, it gets that "Auto-Notify" button and has "OUT OF STOCK" which is sometimes accompanied by an ETA.


High Demand items get "deactivated" for a reason









This has happened with brand new PSU's, to Cases, ect.

When the Phantom's first sold out they were deactivated for a week. Corsair's AX1200 & the Cooler Master HAF X had the same thing happen.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


USB 3.0 is more power. As in amps.

Puts PS/2 to shame.

P.S. Maytan - not much happening. A few more keyboards have gone obsolete in the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide that's all.


Too bad we'll all be dead before Intel starts putting USB 3.0 support on their chipsets.


----------



## ripster

Not me. I eat healthy.

Relevant link with relevant picture definitely not off topic type picture.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Too bad we'll all be dead before Intel starts putting USB 3.0 support on their chipsets.


Gigabyte & Asus are going to be shipping P67 boards with 8 to 12 USB 3.0 headers on the Rear I/O Panel. So I don't think it's much of a worry.

AMD's Bulldozer chipset will have Native USB 3.0; so again I wouldn't be worried.

The biggest thing holding folks back is a standard internal header (and because the Electrical side of USB 3.0 spec hasn't been finished yet.) Though, now we have Internal Headers for USB 3.0 (AsRock & ECS already ship boards with it.)


----------



## ripster

Mechanical Keyboards will remain USB 1.1 though.

Why?

Because it still beats PS/2 at that throughput (although the Sidwinder X4 was bumped to USB 2.0).


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Mechanical Keyboards will remain USB 1.1 though.

Why?

Because it still beats PS/2 at that throughput (although the Sidwinder X4 was bumped to USB 2.0).

Throughput means nothing for a keyboard though.

Either way, Matias is supposed to make a Tactile Pro with USB 3.0 ports. Though it's most likely just powered-passthrough ports. And the actual keyboard won't require USB 3.0


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


Yea, I was afraid they only had a limited run, due to the cost for manufacturing it. I hope there won't be any changes to affect the quality. I just gave mine away today as a gift.







Hoping there will be a sale so I can repuchase it.


Nah, it was only deactivated due to the high demand. It was better to deactivate it rather than leaving it on Auto-Notify.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


High Demand items get "deactivated" for a reason









This has happened with brand new PSU's, to Cases, ect.

When the Phantom's first sold out they were deactivated for a week. Corsair's AX1200 & the Cooler Master HAF X had the same thing happen.


I figured that out right away, but I am grateful that you wanted to make sure.


----------



## Faraz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I just don't like the Das' reflective surface that leave finger prints so easily. I would wait for a filco.


Yeah, that's the plan. Hopefully I'll be able to order it in a couple of days.


----------



## mondalaci

Anybody can help me to find a Cherry keyboard that

* has MX switches
* has perferably double-shot molded keycaps
* is perferably black

The closer it is to Hungary the better it is regarding shipping costs.

Thanks in advance, guys!


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Nah, it was only deactivated due to the high demand. It was better to deactivate it rather than leaving it on Auto-Notify


I'm trying to figure out why deactivating it and leaving no way to notify interested customers that the board is back in stock is better than completely deactivating it and only having the board findable if Googled.

Now anyone who is interested in the board has to check it regularly.









Although, there's an easy way around that if you know it. That's how I find out when it goes on sale anyways.


----------



## Ikrin

Perhaps because Newegg/CV don't know when they'll actually get more stock, so they don't want to put people on auto-notify, which usually would mean the item would be available in less than a month, and which Rosewill has already confirmed it will not be.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mondalaci*


Anybody can help me to find a Cherry keyboard that

* has MX switches
* has perferably double-shot molded keycaps
* is perferably black

The closer it is to Hungary the better it is regarding shipping costs.

Thanks in advance, guys!


You could probably get some from Germany easily enough. That said, it wont be easy to find anything other than ones with Black switches.


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
You could probably get some from Germany easily enough. That said, it wont be easy to find anything other than ones with Black switches.

I couldn't care less about the swtiches as I can replace them in no time.









However, I do care about the other attributes and couldn't find such keyboards yet so I'd really appreciate your help.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing* 
I'm trying to figure out why deactivating it and leaving no way to notify interested customers that the board is back in stock is better than completely deactivating it and only having the board findable if Googled.

Now anyone who is interested in the board has to check it regularly.









Although, there's an easy way around that if you know it. That's how I find out when it goes on sale anyways.

With the way I see it, I think it's better to do that when the demand is as high as they say it is because that way the item won't sell out mere minutes after they say it's back in stock. This helps to prevent an extremely large sudden burst of orders the instant the item goes back in stock which also helps to prevent delays in other orders due to the overwhelming sudden work load. It just helps keep things a bit even (hopefully).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ikrin* 
Perhaps because Newegg/CV don't know when they'll actually get more stock, so they don't want to put people on auto-notify, which usually would mean the item would be available in less than a month, and which Rosewill has already confirmed it will not be.

Or this.

I mean, if this is true (which I bet it is), then leaving it Deactivated is their only choice since they could end up with some angry customers saying, _"Dammit, I clicked Auto-Notify 2 months ago! Why is it still Out of Stock? What the hell is taking so long?"_

This way customers can use other methods such as ChangeDetection.com which means Newegg doesn't have to be asked why it's taking so long.


----------



## kalleralle

I've been using a Logitech Ultrax premium for a while now. I thought it was great at first, low profile buttons, very responsive etc.

However, recently my fingers and joints start to burn after long sessions, it hurts a lot(so much I'm unable to play) which means I need a better higher quality keyboard that is more gentle on the joints.

I started looking into more high quality keyboards and came across mechanical keyboards and more specifically Razor Blackwidow which will be released this month, what are ur thoughts ? It uses cherry mx blues I think and will go for 79$ only downside is I will have to wait until the end of this month. Seems like a sweet deal and best of all it will be available in Sweden, thoughts ?

I have big hands and extremely long thin fingers. I write a lot and play Starcraft, WOW and will soon play COD probably. I write incredibly fast.


----------



## thiru

They use blues, which are tactile (see the first post to see what this means) so very good for typing. They also click upon activation.

There's also the brown switches, which are tactile too but don't click, the other big difference is that they're lighter to press.

Either would probably be lighter on the fingers than rubber domes. Not sure if the lighter browns would do much of a difference compared to the blues though. The blues are considered better for typing.


----------



## kalleralle

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


They use blues, which are tactile (see the first post to see what this means) so very good for typing. They also click upon activation.

There's also the brown switches, which are tactile too but don't click, the other big difference is that they're lighter to press.

Either would probably be lighter on the fingers than rubber domes. Not sure if the lighter browns would do much of a difference compared to the blues though. The blues are considered better for typing.


Ok cool, the browns seem interesting too but does anyone here know of any keyboards with cherry browns other than the ones in OP? because they don't seem available in Sweden.

Also, it cannot go for more than 130$


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kalleralle*


Ok cool, the browns seem interesting too but does anyone here know of any keyboards with cherry browns other than the ones in OP? because they don't seem available in Sweden.

Also, it cannot go for more than 130$


Getdigital.de probably ships to Sweden, but probably not with a Swedish layout. I think your best bet for a Swedish layout and tactile switches is the Blackwidow.


----------



## KipH

The I-rocks 6230 is the exact same as the razer but it has brown switches. Look for that if you like the layout. It does have an odd lay out though.


----------



## fssbzz

might consider a filco MINI
















http://www.diatec.co.jp/products/det.php?prod_c=394


----------



## runeazn

hmm good if it is cheap ill try to get that one.

as my list is right now.
ill have the ducky before this one.
the ducky will be first.
and i think i am going to be addicted to mech keyboards and buy more on eBay.

Well Ducky when it is New Year. 
The Filco when my friend goes to Japan.

hehe Chinese person trying to be a Japanese 
oh well if it's what he want


----------



## fssbzz

They are $20~30 lower then the regular majestouch.
erm...japanese girl are too hot to ignore. lol


----------



## runeazn

I do agree








I wouldn't mind marrying a Japanese, do my parents who knows XD


----------



## Ikrin

Wow. The tenkeyless are generally compact enough. I suppose if you really wanted a number pad, along with similar size, then this would be it. However, I dislike the giant "Enter" and tiny backspace.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


Wow. The tenkeyless are generally compact enough. I suppose if you really wanted a number pad, along with similar size, then this would be it. However, I dislike the giant "Enter" and tiny backspace.


the layout is pretty much like I-Rock KR-6230 layout.
which really sucks and ODD.
it takes along time getting use to the layout.
sucks for gamer who already use to 104 or 10keyless layout


----------



## webwit

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
might consider a filco MINI









Now this is a Filco Mini.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

It looks similar to the Cherry SPOS layout. They screwed up with the arrangement of the arrow keys, rshift, and numpad 0 though, the SPOS is much better in that regard.

However, they have kept the left-side keys standard sized and didn't have to displace the `/~ key. The enter key and backspace being weird is part of the ISO layout, an American/US version would have a standard enter and backspace (hopefully).


----------



## Tator Tot

Just got a mint-condition IBM Model M.
Made in the UK, some cell pictures in a few.

It's definitely nicer than my old one, best thing is it's from a Personal System 2


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Well, I'm not satisfied with my filco purchase. I just tested my typing abilities on it vs my laptop's keyboard, and needless to say, there is a big difference. I can type 15wpm faster on my laptop than on this thing with less errors (98% vs. 93%). Once the newness wore off, I finally grasped how dumb of a purchase this was. It has cherry browns and is otaku (no key printing (what a mistake that was)) and tenkeyless.









So... How much should I sell it for?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi* 
Well, I'm not satisfied with my filco purchase. I just tested my typing abilities on it vs my laptop's keyboard, and needless to say, there is a big difference. I can type 15wpm faster on my laptop than on this thing with less errors (98% vs. 93%). Once the newness wore off, I finally grasped how dumb of a purchase this was. It has cherry browns and is otaku (no key printing (what a mistake that was)) and tenkeyless.









So... How much should I sell it for?

Are you sure the problem isn't your laptops irregular keyboard?

Or is the fact that you can't find keys on your board itself (because their is no printing.)

I had to get used to laptop keyboard when I first got it because of it's irregular key spacing. And because it was all flat island type keys. Made things very hard for me.


----------



## EZjijy

Does eliteboards ever have sales?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EZjijy* 
Does eliteboards ever have sales?

Occasionally.

The last sale I saw was on Topre boards though.


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Are you sure the problem isn't your laptops irregular keyboard?

Or is the fact that you can't find keys on your board itself (because their is no printing.)

I had to get used to laptop keyboard when I first got it because of it's irregular key spacing. And because it was all flat island type keys. Made things very hard for me.


I never look at my keys when I'm typing lol, but it does make typing in long strings of numbers (5+) hard. My laptop has a normal sized keyboard AFAIK and I type beautifully in it (perhaps I'm just very used to it). I make WAY more mistakes when I'm typing on my filco than on my laptops keyboard. I'm talking 52WPM w/ 93-95% accuracy on my filco VS. 68WPM w/ 96-100% accuracy on my laptop. The keys seem way too hard to press and I find myself either bottoming out each time (WHICH IS A LOUD NOISE AT UPWARDS OF 50 WPM) or not getting the keys to actuate. It has been 5 months since I bought this, so it is not a brash decision--I want to sell it.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi*


It has been 5 months since I bought this, so it is not a brash decision--I want to sell it.


If you can't get used to it and want to sell it, check Geekhack's classifieds and do a relative comparison. Also, list it in your sig.

If you're willing to be very skimpy on stating the customs value (which affects VAT, import fees, and the like) you _might_ be successful in attracting an international buyer. Of course, international buyers have risks...I would go domestic if possible.


----------



## Ikrin

Well, I suppose people just need to get used to the travel. Seeing as you're talking about a laptop keyboard, you're going to be used to the small travel of the scissor switches, and are thus, more likely to bottom out, because there is no real feedback unless you do.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Who's with me.

Enough of this blacks' better for gaming. I found better, quicker actuation with blue/browns over blacks I've tried over long periods in mmo, fps, and generally in all online PvP situations.

Enough with these bottoming out blacks


----------



## thiru

I find it ridiculous to choose blacks over browns or clears just for gaming. Unless you're pro and you actually prefer blacks.


----------



## Ikrin

Yea, I agree. The resistance is a bit much. I much prefer the blues. I haven't yet had the chance to sample browns yet.


----------



## Crazy9000

Considering I can't play at all on blues, I beg to differ







.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Well, some people are a little challenged on blues.


----------



## ripster

Developmentally?

Seems harsh.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi* 
I never look at my keys when I'm typing lol, but it does make typing in long strings of numbers (5+) hard. My laptop has a normal sized keyboard AFAIK and I type beautifully in it (perhaps I'm just very used to it). I make WAY more mistakes when I'm typing on my filco than on my laptops keyboard. I'm talking 52WPM w/ 93-95% accuracy on my filco VS. 68WPM w/ 96-100% accuracy on my laptop. The keys seem way too hard to press and I find myself either bottoming out each time (WHICH IS A LOUD NOISE AT UPWARDS OF 50 WPM) or not getting the keys to actuate. It has been 5 months since I bought this, so it is not a brash decision--I want to sell it.

Then try typing on the Filco with your wrists up in the air. While you do this, try to use a lighter touch as well. But also experiment with different wrist heights.

But in order for this to be comfortable, the keyboard can't be very high either. I mean if it's at like chest-height, then it could actually be so uncomfortable that you might even feel pain when doing this. But if it's at elbow-height, then it should be very comfortable. Hovering your wrists while typing on a mechanical keyboard such as the Tactile Touch should make quite an improvement to all aspects of your typing.

So I think that one secret to truly appreciating a good mechanical keyboard is to use the lightest touch possible. This is enhanced by hovering your wrists while typing. But again, the optimal keyboard height is about elbow-height. Imagine typing on a keyboard while standing up so that the keyboard is about waist-high, or slightly higher but not higher than your elbows.

In other words, typing on a mechanical keyboard isn't a process of hitting every key like when typing on a rubber dome keyboard or a laptop. Instead, it's a process of _pressing_ every key, or perhaps merely bouncing off every key. It's just a light tap. This reveals why they call it _Touch_ Typing.

I got my Majestouch exactly 8 months ago today on March 9th. When I first started typing on it, I was still typing while keeping my wrists planted on my wrist rest. Back then, I was having exactly the same problems you're having. But I was also bound and determined to stop bottoming out. So, I practiced typing in Notepad every single day both at the beginning of my day and then again at the end. I even practiced during the middle of my day if I was bored or just wanted an excuse to type. These practice sessions consisted of me typing extremely slowly and extremely gently, not bottoming out any keystrokes whatsoever.

Over the course of a few days, I began noticing that my normal typing was improving and getting quieter. After a couple of weeks, I could type at my normal speed of 75-85 WPM with 100% accuracy without bottoming out any alpha keys. But in the beginning, I could only type that fast by typing on it the same way I typed on a rubber dome keyboard or on a laptop, and it was very loud and I was also less accurate. But now it's pure typing bliss.

Today, I still bottom out keys like the Spacebar, Backspace, Shift, and Enter, but I do so very gently. I think the only reason why I bottom out these keys is because it is as if I am accenting those keystrokes while the rest are all monotone in a sense. So while I'm just typing on the alpha keys, it's nothing but mechanical clicks with a gentle Spacebar hit in between each word.

In other words, if your keyboard is at a comfortable height (such as elbow-height), then you can do the same thing I did. You just have to want to succeed. So if you try, then know this: as long as you want to succeed, then it's guaranteed that you will. I mean damn, if I can do it, then anyone can do it because I am nothing.


----------



## thisispatrick

And Two Cables wrote out that wall of text not because he wants to help you, but because his main reason was to satisfy his typing needs


----------



## gonX

"Put your wrists up in the air, put your wrists up, in the air"


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
And Two Cables wrote out that wall of text not because he wants to help you, but because his main reason was to satisfy his typing needs









This!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
"Put your wrists up in the air, put your wrists up, in the air"






Or, _"throw your wrists up in the air, and wave 'em around like you just don't care"._


----------



## runeazn

isthis filco mechanical







?








nobody?
btw its 40$ rofl


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

I would love to throw my wrists up in the air but that is impossible on my desk.... for now....

*goes to install keyboard tray*

I'll report back with results of having a keyboard tray.


----------



## runeazn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runeazn* 
isthis filco mechanical







?








nobody?
btw its 40$ rofl

nobody?
btw its 40$ rofl


----------



## TwoCables

runeazn, please be more patient. Good grief, man.

MahiMahiMahi: I'm really looking forward to the results!


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
runeazn, please be more patient. Good grief, man.

MahiMahiMahi: I'm really looking forward to the results!











It seems to be working better. I'm still not able as fast as on my laptop but at least I notice a difference. The choice to sell still stands though. I want a full sized keyboard with key printing







.


----------



## gonX

Using keyboard trays is a really great way to get CTS. So get rid of it and use your table or get a real computing table.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


Using keyboard trays is a really great way to get CTS. So get rid of it and use your table or get a real computing table.


That doesn't make any sense. They are both flat surfaces, and will be equal.


----------



## thiru

I think he's talking about height.


----------



## Crazy9000

Unless he means having the mouse on the desk and keyboard in a keyboard tray, that would make sense. Height shouldn't be any different with a tray, you're usually going to adjust the chair to be comfortable either way.


----------



## gonX

Have you guys ever seen a keyboard tray where you can fit both the mouse and the keyboard on at the same time? Neither have I, and that's exactly what I'm talking about. If you're not going to put both things on it, remove the tray.

And that's assuming that people want at least some kind of disk space for their mouse.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


Have you guys ever seen a keyboard tray where you can fit both the mouse and the keyboard on at the same time? Neither have I, and that's exactly what I'm talking about. If you're not going to put both things on it, remove the tray.

And that's assuming that people want at least some kind of disk space for their mouse.


Really, you've never had both on a tray? I fit my razer exactmat and my full size Topre easily on mine.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


Have you guys ever seen a keyboard tray where you can fit both the mouse and the keyboard on at the same time? Neither have I, and that's exactly what I'm talking about. If you're not going to put both things on it, remove the tray.

And that's assuming that people want at least some kind of disk space for their mouse.


Yes my cheapo-desk fits both nicely. (1) (Storm Sentinel Mouse + HP Multi-media keyboard.) 
(2) (Deck Legend + G500)

Second picture is a terrible cellphone one. But the keyboard tray is 28" Long.
Deck Legend is ~18" long

That's ~10 inches of space for the mouse.


----------



## gonX

I must have only seen small trays then. Still, that's not a whole lot of space, but still a lot more than what I've previously seen.
I used to use a so-called "slim and low-profile" keyboard which frankly wasn't very wide compared to most keyboards today, but I barely managed to fit my mouse + a small mousepad on the tray. But yours look MUCH bigger - it's fine if it's like that.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


I must have only seen small trays then. Still, that's not a whole lot of space, but still a lot more than what I've previously seen.
I used to use a so-called "slim and low-profile" keyboard which frankly wasn't very wide compared to most keyboards today, but I barely managed to fit my mouse + a small mousepad on the tray. But yours look MUCH bigger - it's fine if it's like that.


This desk is literally your standard desk at Walmart/KMart/Target. 
Only costs $30 
It's cheap, and with the CD Rack part, it can hold up to a 22" Wide Screen monitor. 
It's not fancy. All of it is made out of plywood.

But if a desk has a smaller keyboard try than this, then that's just weird.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


Using keyboard trays is a really great way to get CTS. So get rid of it and use your table or get a real computing table.


Huh? I am pain-free. But if I put my keyboard on my desk (which brings it to the height where the vertical center of my biceps are), then it's too high and I usually end up in pain after a while.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


Have you guys ever seen a keyboard tray where you can fit both the mouse and the keyboard on at the same time? Neither have I, and that's exactly what I'm talking about. If you're not going to put both things on it, remove the tray.

And that's assuming that people want at least some kind of disk space for their mouse.


My keyboard tray is 42" wide, and 14" deep. So, I could fit two full-sized keyboards and still keep my mousepad on here which is 8" wide. Plus, it keeps my keyboard at elbow height (as long as I keep my chair at the right height), and it has just the perfect angle so that don't need to use the keyboard's legs.

My keyboard tray is 100% anti-CTS. Psh.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Huh? I am pain-free. But if I put my keyboard on my desk (which brings it to the height where the vertical center of my biceps are), then it's too high and I usually end up in pain after a while.

My keyboard tray is 42" wide, and 14" deep. So, I could fit two full-sized keyboards and still keep my mousepad on here which is 8" wide. Plus, it keeps my keyboard at elbow height (as long as I keep my chair at the right height), and it has just the perfect angle so that don't need to use the keyboard's legs.

My keyboard tray is 100% anti-CTS. Psh.


I think gonX's point was mainly that having the mouse on the desk above the keyboard is bad, which I agree with. Maybe they don't make desks with decent trays up there in Europe.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Oh way to diss my main man Ikea


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I think gonX's point was mainly that having the mouse on the desk above the keyboard is bad, which I agree with. Maybe they don't make desks with decent trays up there in Europe.

Well, we have IKEA, but that's about it. I even have this huge office table that had a tray on it. It was perhaps 20 inches wide which definitely isn't enough


----------



## ripster

This used to be a 5 star thread.

Now it's at 4 stars.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
Have you guys ever seen a keyboard tray where you can fit both the mouse and the keyboard on at the same time? Neither have I, and that's exactly what I'm talking about. If you're not going to put both things on it, remove the tray.

With a Tenkeyless that's pretty feasible actually, at least with a trackball. And many trays have little attachments for a mouse platform.

Anyhow, I
 picked up one of these
and I'll see how it is. It'll clamp to the desk above my tray and be about an inch and a half over the numpad, which http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/cumousetips.html says is perfect:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CUergo*
With a flat mouse platform, position this 1-2" above the keyboard and over the numeric keypad if you are right handed - you can easily move it out of the way if you need to access these keys. With a downward sloping mouse platform, position this close to the side of the keyboard so that you can use the mouse in a neutral wrist position. Position adjustable mouse platforms are commercially available (e.g. Humanscale, Proformix, Flexrest, 3M etc.)

Oh, and apparently wrist rests are apparently _bad_ for you:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CUErgo*
In fact, a wrist rest can actually increase pressure inside the carpal tunnel by compressing the undersurface of the wrist (take a look at your wrist and you'll probably see blood vessels that shouldn't be compressed!). Studies by Dr. David Rempel at the University of Berkeley, California, show that pressure applied to the underside of the carpal tunnel is transferred into the tunnel itself via the transverse carpal ligament and that intracarpal pressure doubles with a wrist rest compared with floating the hands over a keyboard. If you choose to use a wrist rest, using one with a broad, flat, firm surface design works best, and rest the heel of your palm on this NOT your wrist. Try not to rest while you're actually typing, but rest in between bursts of typing movements. Avoid soft and squishy wrist rests because these will contour to your wrist, restrict the freedom of movement of your hands, and encourage more lateral deviation during typing. Look at the surface of a typical wrist rest that's been used and you'll see that it gets eroded away, which means that the user has been sliding their wrists over the surface which also compresses the blood vessels often visible at the wrist. Remember, your hands should be able to glide above the surface of a wrist rest during typing, don't lock them in place on the rest while you type.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
This used to be a 5 star thread.

Now it's at 4 stars.

It's all based on member votes.


----------



## Crazy9000

Enough logitech fanboys gave it one star.


----------



## fssbzz

Omg MAN, i just realize that the OCN Key Cap.
http://www.tankguys.com/site-merchan...ey-cherry.html

are 2 shot. damm.
Got 4 of them








Love it!
Going to get a few set.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

It's been four ever since manyak left us.

honestly tator how do you work at your comp station. There's not even room to write a note down.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


It's been four ever since manyak left us.

honestly tator how do you work at your comp station. There's not even room to write a note down.


I have a rolling "laptop" desk. For notes. It's more positionable and much easier for me to work with.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I think gonX's point was mainly that having the mouse on the desk above the keyboard is bad, which I agree with. Maybe they don't make desks with decent trays up there in Europe.


Yeah, I know.







But in fairness, I didn't say that I know.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing*


With a Tenkeyless that's pretty feasible actually, at least with a trackball. And many trays have little attachments for a mouse platform.

Anyhow, I picked up one of these and I'll see how it is. It'll clamp to the desk above my tray and be about an inch and a half over the numpad, which Cornell's Ergonomics site says is perfect:

Oh, and apparently wrist rests are apparently _bad_ for you:
_
Quote:



Originally Posted by *CUErgo*

In fact, a wrist rest can actually increase pressure inside the carpal tunnel by compressing the undersurface of the wrist (take a look at your wrist and you'll probably see blood vessels that shouldn't be compressed!). Studies by Dr. David Rempel at the University of Berkeley, California, show that pressure applied to the underside of the carpal tunnel is transferred into the tunnel itself via the transverse carpal ligament and that intracarpal pressure doubles with a wrist rest compared with floating the hands over a keyboard. If you choose to use a wrist rest, using one with a broad, flat, firm surface design works best, and rest the heel of your palm on this NOT your wrist. Try not to rest while you're actually typing, but rest in between bursts of typing movements. Avoid soft and squishy wrist rests because these will contour to your wrist, restrict the freedom of movement of your hands, and encourage more lateral deviation during typing. Look at the surface of a typical wrist rest that's been used and you'll see that it gets eroded away, which means that the user has been sliding their wrists over the surface which also compresses the blood vessels often visible at the wrist. Remember, your hands should be able to glide above the surface of a wrist rest during typing, don't lock them in place on the rest while you type.


_


As I've said dozens of times before, every single ergonomic guide agrees with me: hover or float your wrists in the air as you type.

But what I've failed to mention is how important the height of the keyboard is in relation to your body: it should be at about elbow-height. If it's too high, then hovering/floating the wrists will be uncomfortable.


----------



## fssbzz

is there a Glow in a Dark blank key cap ?
anyone have it on their keyboard?
Will you guys want it on your kb key cap?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


is there a Glow in a Dark blank key cap ?
anyone have it on their keyboard?
Will you guys want it on your kb key cap?


It's not "glow in the dark" but Deck has a set of blanks that glows when back-lighting is on.

I don't know where to get them anymore as I can't find them on Performance PC's


----------



## fssbzz

im looking for the one that look like this.
















http://www.dragonsteelmods.com/index...1&limitstart=3

it will be nice if the whole key cap material are Glow in the Dark.


----------



## thisispatrick

That's actually pretty cool. I would like to see the whole keycap in that material though, not just the top.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


That's actually pretty cool. I would like to see the whole keycap in that material though, not just the top.


i think i should MO it with SP.
they have it, only in ABS.


----------



## ripster

Look up Cherry Raptor K1. No longer sold AFAIK. Kind of like many of the keyboards in the Mechanical Keyboard Guide.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

What do you mean by AFAIK?


----------



## fssbzz

as far as i know


----------



## Bullveyr

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Look up Cherry Raptor K1. No longer sold AFAIK. Kind of like many of the keyboards in the Mechanical Keyboard Guide.

I still find many shops in germany where I could buy it.


----------



## Bennylava

Ok well what about this? I need a mechanical keyboard that has all of these features:

1. Backlit keys.

2. Ergonomic design.

3. Wireless

4. Split space bar. (this one is optional I guess but I would really really like to find one that has all the features listed above, and the split space bar)


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bennylava* 
Ok well what about this? I need a mechanical keyboard that has all of these features:

1. Backlit keys.

2. Ergonomic design.

3. Wireless

4. Split space bar. (this one is optional I guess but I would really really like to find one that has all the features listed above, and the split space bar)

Have fun making one







. There are almost no ergonomic mechanical boards, so tacking any other preferences on that gives little chance for one to even exist







.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bennylava* 
Ok well what about this? I need a mechanical keyboard that has all of these features:

1. Backlit keys.

2. Ergonomic design.

3. Wireless

4. Split space bar. (this one is optional I guess but I would really really like to find one that has all the features listed above, and the split space bar)

Doesn't exist. Pick three two one feature out of those four and it might exist.


----------



## Bennylava

Ok wireless.

Or ergonmic.

Or, just backlit keys.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bennylava* 
Ok wireless.

Or ergonmic.

Or, just backlit keys.

I don't know of any wireless.

Ergonomics were made in the past, you may find them on ebay (you'll find examples in the OP), and this one (with brown switches) is available for preorder (no idea when it comes out though).

As for backlit:
Razer Black Widow Ultimate (blue switches)
Deck Legend (clear or black)
Deck 82 (black, but small keyboard with non standard layout)
iOne Xarmor U9BL (blue)
the upcoming iOne Xarmor with brown switches (and, someone said, wireless, but I have no idea and can't find any sources)

That's all I can think of. What switch type do you want?


----------



## thisispatrick

XArmor is coming out with a wireless one. So it will suit your 1 and 3.


----------



## W4LNUT5

http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/8...l#post11303155


----------



## Bennylava

Hmm, someone said something about actually making one. I have always wanted to try something like this. Not actually making a keyboard from scratch of course, that would be... well beyond most people's abilities. No I mean taking a regular, wired keyboard, and making it wireless.

Probly a dumb idea, but isn't there some way to hack part of the cord off a wired keyboard and then splice in some kind of transmitter? Could that ever work somehow? Guess not. I mean I know that you would still have to use battery power to power your keyboard, but part isn't impossible.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bennylava*


Hmm, someone said something about actually making one. I have always wanted to try something like this. Not actually making a keyboard from scratch of course, that would be... well beyond most people's abilities. No I mean taking a regular, wired keyboard, and making it wireless.

Probly a dumb idea, but isn't there some way to hack part of the cord off a wired keyboard and then splice in some kind of transmitter? Could that ever work somehow? Guess not. I mean I know that you would still have to use battery power to power your keyboard, but part isn't impossible.


I think it would be easier to have something that the keyboard can plug into via USB, that will transmit it to a reciever across the room. It would need to be powered of course.


----------



## webwit

Hmmm?

Hmmm!


----------



## Lanx

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Have fun making one







. There are almost no ergonomic mechanical boards, so tacking any other preferences on that gives little chance for one to even exist







.

I'm making my second ergonomic keyboard and will barely include half the features you want. Hint no wireless/no split space and I'll get illumination from the g15 backlight.


----------



## citronlol

Hi there ,

So i had a question , i will soon buy a Steelseries 6gv2.
In the guide , Manyak mention that PS2 is better interface than USB , well im on a laptop and i don't have any PS/2 port.

But if i use an Adaptator like this one


May i benefit from the PS/2 port or still no ?

(sorry for my english)


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *citronlol* 
Hi there ,

So i had a question , i will soon buy a Steelseries 6gv2.
In the guide , Manyak mention that PS2 is better interface than USB , well im on a laptop and i don't have any PS/2 port.

But if i use an Adaptator like this one


May i benefit from the PS/2 port or still no ?

(sorry for my english)

No, since it transforms it to the USB signal.


----------



## KipH

And, most of the time USB keyboards are just as good and more convenient. The only time you need to have PS/2 is if you need to hit more than 6keys and 4 modifiers at the same time.

So use USB keyboard and be happy









Where are you from?


----------



## ripster

If I were you I'd skip that whole "Myths" section of the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide. It's full of Myths.


----------



## lb_felipe

Is the Topre Realforce 103UB (Black) SE02B0 an 6-ky rollover?

Have it any issue with the most popular games?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


Using keyboard trays is a really great way to get CTS. So get rid of it and use your table or get a real computing table.



Thanks for the warning. I removed it once I read up on Carpel Tunnel Syndrome.

+Karma


----------



## LarsMarkelson

I kind of want to get this keyboard tray. Super adjustable and it has it's own mouse pad platform:

http://www.ergonomicresource.com/aderketr.html


----------



## ripster

See the NKRO Wiki here - it is quite accurate and shows the RealForce as being 6KRO and USB only.

Really, I wouldn't worry about PS/2. It's fading steadily away.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

EH..

that's ****ing awesome.. i'm nergasming atm


----------



## lb_felipe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


See the NKRO Wiki here - it is quite accurate and shows the RealForce as being 6KRO and USB only.

Really, I wouldn't worry about PS/2. It's fading steadily away.


Oh Thanks. geekhack is in my favorites. But as I do not know English I end up not getting that information.

How do RealForce perform in games? Is it as good as Filco or Das? Better or Worst?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lb_felipe*


Oh Thanks. geekhack is in my favorites. But as I do not know English I end up not getting that information.

How do RealForce perform in games? Is it as good as Filco or Das? Better or Worst?


On a USB Connection it'll be the same; and the only real difference will be the switches used.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lb_felipe* 
Is the Topre Realforce 103UB (Black) SE02B0 an 6-ky rollover?

Have it any issue with the most popular games?

Thanks in advance.

Yes it does a full 6 keys over the USB connection. I have not had an issue with any type of game. I think it's the perfect keyboard, and worth the price.

I have the 55g version; the normal version will have the keys lighter that would be under smaller fingers. Just keep that in mind before buying.


----------



## runeazn

is using a keyboard tray bad?


----------



## KipH

No. Having your mouse and or Keyboard at the wrong height or too cramped is. Most trays will provide one of these situation. You need to look at the ergonomics of your situation and set it up to cause the least stress on your system.


----------



## webwit

I like to hear more of the flawed ergonomic logic, because it is funny and because people declare themselves ergo experts with straight faces. While all they did is google some random ergo crap from more such soft science "experts". There is no hard science in this field.

Here's my main ergonomic tip. If any self-declared expert on a web site or any forum user tells you something regarding ergonomics like it is definite, ploink such "wisdom".

For example, when someone declares:

Quote:

Using keyboard trays is a really great way to get CTS. So get rid of it and use your table or get a real computing table.
..just think *ploink* and "snake oil".










_Ergonomic advisers_










_Trulyergonomic circa 1880_


----------



## KipH

Snake oil would have been good for you. If there really was snake oil in that patent medicine you may have actually gotten better









It would NOT work to make your keyboard quieter or Nkey rollover though.


----------



## runeazn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
No. Having your mouse and or Keyboard at the wrong height or too cramped is. Most trays will provide one of these situation. You need to look at the ergonomics of your situation and set it up to cause the least stress on your system.

oh i am a high sense player sicne it is so cramped with a G19 and a G9 :/
so ***ign cramped..


----------



## Phoenixlight

Is the Razer Black Widow a good alternative to the Steelseries 7G? or does it use inferior quality keys?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phoenixlight* 
Is the Razer Black Widow a good alternative to the Steelseries 7G? or does it use inferior quality keys?

Black Widow uses blues and 7G uses blacks. Depends on the user.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runeazn* 
is using a keyboard tray bad?

It can be. Some don't have enough room to fit a mouse next to the keyboard while others have enough room, but have too much of an angle.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phoenixlight* 
Is the Razer Black Widow a good alternative to the Steelseries 7G? or does it use inferior quality keys?

the Black Widow uses iOne as an OEM which is inferior, but other than that, the switches in both the 7G and Black Widow are from the Cherry MX series: both Black Widows use the Cherry MX Blues. The reason why Razer is using thing switch type instead of the Blacks is because they are very, very, very different from rubber dome boards, and therefore it's far more likely that people would notice the difference.

But if it were me, then I would get the 7G or some other keyboard that has a higher quality. The Black Widow boards are more about value than anything.


----------



## Phoenixlight

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 

the Black Widow uses iOne as an OEM which is inferior, but other than that, the switches in both the 7G and Black Widow are from the Cherry MX series: both Black Widows use the Cherry MX Blues. The reason why Razer is using thing switch type instead of the Blacks is because they are very, very, very different from rubber dome boards, and therefore it's far more likely that people would notice the difference.

But if it were me, then I would get the 7G or some other keyboard that has a higher quality. The Black Widow boards are more about value than anything.

Hmm I'm going to have to think about it then, I'm looking for a gaming keyboard but the 7G doesn't have any macro keys and looks a bit plain. Although, it does have a big wrist rest which is good.


----------



## runeazn

this is the keyboard tray.

Yeah I know it is reallly messy..
you needa see my room


----------



## ripster

Nice pipe. I hear that is legal over there.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Nice pipe. I hear that is legal over there.

ROFL do you mean his Wii remote?

And as long as both devices are on the tray I wouldn't worry too much about getting hurt.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runeazn* 
this is the keyboard tray.

Yeah I know it is reallly messy..
you needa see my room 

You are one dude who could really benefit from a tenkeyless keyboard.


----------



## runeazn

Is this model a IBM Model M
part number : KB 8926


----------



## thiru

Nope.


----------



## runeazn

it really looks like one?









pictures : http://computer-software.marktplaats...ta_ind=14&fs=1

then i guess wil go for the 8 euro expensiver route the cherry MX siwtches Cherry G80


----------



## thiru

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=8455


----------



## runeazn

what about this one ?
Toetsenbord Cherry RS6700 met card reader (evt 3 stuks)
5 euro each








ofcourse it isn't a IBm model M but is it mehanical







?

and this one ?
http://computer-software.marktplaats...fta_ind=6&fs=1

IBM Toetsenborden KB 8926 is a dell
so same thing applies ??


----------



## Phaedrus2129

A Cherry keyboard is not mechanical unless it says "MX" or "G80" on it. Or "ML" or "G84" which indicates ML switches, which are like mechanical laptop keys.


----------



## runeazn

oh pheadrus this doesn't state it is a G80 or mehanical in any matter in the lisitng *sarcasm*:
*G80 - Mechanical MX keyswitches with gold crosspoint contacts*
http://computer-software.marktplaats...fta_ind=9&fs=1

rofl, iis it mehanical?

are there any g80 that sin't mehanical?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I hate when they list "G80/G81".

If you buy make SURE, I mean 100% SURE that you're getting the G80 version, because the G81 are ****.


----------



## runeazn

no he meant to sell both of them..
i already said i wanyted the g80
but are there any G80 that is not mechanical?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

To my knowledge all G80s are mechanical.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runeazn* 
no he meant to sell both of them..
i already said i wanyted the g80
but are there any G80 that is not mechanical?

All G80's cherry lists on their site are Mechanical.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
I hate when they list "G80/G81".

If you buy make SURE, I mean 100% SURE that you're getting the G80 version, because the G81 are ****.

It could be a mix. Letter cluster mechanical and numpad cluster 'domes? Or the opposite even?


----------



## ripster

Oh.

That's why it has a strap.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


It could be a mix. Letter cluster mechanical and numpad cluster 'domes? Or the opposite even?


Wouldn't work. Plate and membrane vs. PCB. You could theoretically do a mix, but it wouldn't be cost effective.


----------



## Tequila_Burp

hello everyone can anyone help me searching for a keyboard with this characteristics:

Switch Type: Cherry MX Browns
Keycap Printing: at least laser etched or better
Price: less than $100 =(


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tequila_Burp*


hello everyone can anyone help me searching for a keyboard with this characteristics:

Switch Type: Cherry MX Browns
Keycap Printing: at least laser etched or better
Price: less than $100 =(


wait for RK-9000

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:12688
it use Filco Controller.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


wait for RK-9000

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:12688
it use Filco Controller.


That has Cherry Blues. He's looking for Browns.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


That has Cherry Blues. He's looking for Browns.


ah didn't see that.
http://sewelldirect.com/KR-6230-97-K...572d3232363331

or 
refurbished from DAS
http://store.daskeyboard.com/b/2258657011


----------



## Tequila_Burp

am between the "Refurbished Professional Model S Silent" and the "Majestouch Tactile Touch"

i need em to be shipped to peru. i think that if i get one less than $100 i dont pay taxes or something like that here.

edit : KR-6230 looks nice but how can i be sure its cherry mx brown and the keys wont get erased easily


----------



## KipH

It is brown. Thats the I-rocks I have. Nice board but you got to get used to the odd key layout. I have usd it a lot for one year and no issues at all with the keys, and I don't keep it that clean either. But you will want to ask others, just my opinion.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tequila_Burp* 
am between the "Refurbished Professional Model S Silent" and the "Majestouch Tactile Touch"

i need em to be shipped to peru. i think that if i get one less than $100 i dont pay taxes or something like that here.

edit : KR-6230 looks nice but how can i be sure its cherry mx brown and the keys wont get erased easily

try to find a friend that are student, and get the EDUCATION Promo from DAS.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Got my doubleshots.










Sorry for terrible image quality. Flash lit up the keycaps to the point of illegibility. I'll try to use more external lighting in a bit to get a better shot.

Loving them, thus far. Very nice. MX Blue click is _slightly_ less muffled. Keycap texture is very nice.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing*


Got my doubleshots.










Sorry for terrible image quality. Flash lit up the keycaps to the point of illegibility. I'll try to use more external lighting in a bit to get a better shot.

Loving them, thus far. Very nice. MX Blue click is _slightly_ less muffled. Keycap texture is very nice.


put those orange WASD up


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Done


















The red backplate isn't really visible with these keycaps except at the very edges when lighting is very good. Shows up a lot with the flash though.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

That's pimpin'. Props.


----------



## fssbzz

Looking good~!


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Is anyone selling that type of key cap puller?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*   Is anyone selling that type of key cap puller?  
Elite Keyboards sells them.

I have that type, and the    wire type , and I MUCH prefer the wire. It's vastly superior.


----------



## fssbzz

http://hooleon.com/miva/merchant.mvc...gory_Code=KT-P


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Elite Keyboards sells them.

I have that type, and the wire type, and I MUCH prefer the wire. It's vastly superior.


I have both and I prefer the one I showed. Except on the larger keys, where it's ever so slightly harder, I find it easier/faster to use.

The wire type makes it easier to wreck the switch too.


----------



## Lanx

i still had to whip out the trusty ol butter knife on a few tricky keys.


----------



## Ikrin

Ahhh.. Still waiting for Newegg/CV To get more stock of the RK-9000.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


Ahhh.. Still waiting for Newegg/CV To get more stock of the RK-9000.



Quote:



Dear Valued Customer,

Thanks for your interest in Rosewill products. RK-9000 is currently out of stock due to high demand. However, Newegg will have inventory available by mid December.

The Rosewill Team


this is the original email i got from Rosewill tech


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Good to hear a mechanical keyboard is getting high demand!


----------



## fssbzz

well, all thanks to this thread and Geekhack.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Elite Keyboards sells them.

I have that type, and the wire type, and I MUCH prefer the wire. It's vastly superior.


I just prefer not to give them another 5 usd shipping when it only costs 1.33. Plus I just need it for 4 keys to switch between the white and red wasd keys. Thanks for suggesting.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


Ahhh.. Still waiting for Newegg/CV To get more stock of the RK-9000.


Just sign up for ChangeDetection on the RK-9000 product page and you'll get an email when it comes back in stock.


----------



## fssbzz

doing some interest check here.
http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/8...lank-glow.html


----------



## Faraz

What, what! My Filco Majestouch is on the way!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Elite Keyboards sells them.

I have that type, and the wire type, and I MUCH prefer the wire. It's vastly superior.

Elite Keyboards doesn't sell the type of keycap puller in question. They only sell the wire puller.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Elite Keyboards doesn't sell the type of keycap puller in question. They only sell the wire puller.

That's odd, they used to sell the "Green Lantern Ring" key-cap puller cause I got it with my Filco and blanks set when I ordered it all.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing*


Got my doubleshots.










Sorry for terrible image quality. Flash lit up the keycaps to the point of illegibility. I'll try to use more external lighting in a bit to get a better shot.

Loving them, thus far. Very nice. MX Blue click is _slightly_ less muffled. Keycap texture is very nice.


This is bloody pimpin'


----------



## candy_van

So I recently picked up a Cherry G80 (thanks losttsol) to try out MX Blacks, and I gotta say not too shabby.

Not the greatest for typing I know, but I still manage pretty well (I tend to bottom out anyway, so it's not that big of deal at all for me).
Haven't gamed much on it save for an hour or so of Fallout, but I'll load up BFBC2 tomorrow and put it through the paces.

Not used to having the raised/offset numpad at all either, but the built-in touch pad is pretty cool actually (albiet useless for me) lol.
Was just going to pick this up to test out the switch type and resell but I may very well keep this thing regardless cause it's pretty darn cool


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Keep it on topic please.


----------



## ripster

What is the topic? It's a 9495 post count thread!


----------



## fssbzz

rosewill rk-9000 in stock right now
20% off
http://www.overclock.net/online-deal...00-80-7-a.html

chiefvalue too
http://www.chiefvalue.com/product-_-...00158448010060


----------



## InTheFlow

Manyak - Thanks for the detailed and informative guide!

I have a Unicomp 104 keyboard and love it. I just want one that also is led backlit & has a USB hub on it. Maybe Razor's new BlackWidow will do it. Having the port for headphones/mic would be a bonus as well.

Anyone know how the blue cherry switches compare to the buckling spring ones?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *InTheFlow* 
Anyone know how the blue cherry switches compare to the buckling spring ones?

They are noticeably lighter. And give less of a tactile feedback. But still very nice switches to type on.

I would actually like to see them be light personally. But that's just me.


----------



## ripster

So is Blue Cherries versus Buckling Springs the topic of this thread?

I would like to point out that the following keyboards in the OP are obsolete:

- Das Model S (or at least the picture of the Multimedia version)
- ABS M1
- Realforce 87U (except in Korea)
- The MiniGuru
- At least half of those ergo boards
- Just about every foam switch keyboard you find on Ebay has foam that is the consistency of cottage cheese.
- And there are LOTS and LOTS of new keyboards that have started shipping


----------



## ripster

Oh, the Steelseries 7G is technically not obsolete but they are getting harder to find. The OP link leads to a "deactivated" notice. No more at Best Buy, Amazon, and a bunch of other places. Not sure why but the 6GV2 is a much better value anyway.


----------



## bojinglebells

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


So is Blue Cherries versus Buckling Springs the topic of this thread?

I would like to point out that the following keyboards in the OP are obsolete:

- Das Model S (or at least the picture of the Multimedia version)
- ABS M1
- Realforce 87U (except in Korea)
- The *MiniGuru*
- At least half of those ergo boards
- Just about every foam switch keyboard you find on Ebay has foam that is the consistency of cottage cheese.
- And there are LOTS and LOTS of new keyboards that have started shipping


its a shame about the miniguru, that was a brilliant concept what with the plethora of customization options including the tough to find cherry reds


----------



## Evanagar

Does anyone know where I could either:
a) a set of key caps for MX Cherry Blues for the Dvorak layout where the "u" and the "f" keys have nibs and "f" and "j" do not.
b) a blank set of keycaps for MX Cherry blues

My keyboard is a Rosewill RK-9000 standard 108 key layout if that makes any difference. Both options a and be are appealing to me, the decision will largely be made on price. Thank you for any input and suggestions for places to find good keycaps.

Also, Does anyone have any suggestions on how to remove the rosewill logo from my keyboard without jacking up the look of the area where the logo is?


----------



## ripster

Is this on topic?

Now I'm getting confused.

Before we hit 10,000 posts I'd like some clarification.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

You really need to stop with the "on topic"/"off topic" commentary.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


I would like to point out that the following keyboards in the OP are obsolete:

- Das Model S (or at least the picture of the Multimedia version)
- ABS M1
- Realforce 87U (except in Korea)
- The MiniGuru
- At least half of those ergo boards
- Just about every foam switch keyboard you find on Ebay has foam that is the consistency of cottage cheese.
- And there are LOTS and LOTS of new keyboards that have started shipping


Then PM Manyak and don't clutter the thread. This is getting stupid. If he ever bothered to come back and read this thread, he would have made at least some effort to update it. So what good is it to repeatedly shout requests to update information when he won't read them? Use the PM system and leave us to discuss things normally.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Keyboard enthusiasts are passive aggressive. lol

Love me some Mechanical Keyboards with a side helping of angst.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *candy_van*


So I recently picked up a Cherry G80 (thanks losttsol) to try out MX Blacks, and I gotta say not too shabby.

Not the greatest for typing I know, but I still manage pretty well (I tend to bottom out anyway, so it's not that big of deal at all for me).
Haven't gamed much on it save for an hour or so of Fallout, but I'll load up BFBC2 tomorrow and put it through the paces.

Not used to having the raised/offset numpad at all either, but the built-in touch pad is pretty cool actually (albiet useless for me) lol.
Was just going to pick this up to test out the switch type and resell but I may very well keep this thing regardless cause it's pretty darn cool











Quote:



Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE*


Keep it on topic please.


Just trying to follow the Moderators advice.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Just trying to follow the Moderators advice.


Then don't make that commentary, it's off topic.


----------



## webwit

Can you guys get a room? We're trying to talk about mechanical keyboards here, not forum rules. Try PM.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Evanagar*


Does anyone know where I could either:
a) a set of key caps for MX Cherry Blues for the Dvorak layout where the "u" and the "f" keys have nibs and "f" and "j" do not.
b) a blank set of keycaps for MX Cherry blues

My keyboard is a Rosewill RK-9000 standard 108 key layout if that makes any difference. Both options a and be are appealing to me, the decision will largely be made on price. Thank you for any input and suggestions for places to find good keycaps.

Also, Does anyone have any suggestions on how to remove the rosewill logo from my keyboard without jacking up the look of the area where the logo is?


It's been twenty hours and no response.

I'd recommend you post it in a separate thread. Tends to get a better response and it makes it easier for others to find the answer to their questions since this is a pretty long thread.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Mods, please don't ban ripster. He is one of the best posters ITT imo. Seriously.

Btw, re: Blue Cherries and Buckling Springs... I have never tried Buckling Springs but would be very interested in getting one. But I love Tenkeyless design only.

Any new BS Tenkeyless I can get that doesn't cost a ton on ebay (IBM Model M Spacesaver)?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson* 
Any new BS Tenkeyless I can get that doesn't cost a ton on ebay (IBM Model M Spacesaver)?

Unicomp Spacesaver


----------



## Faraz

Had a nice surprise waiting for me when I got home. Okay, so it wasn't really a surprise, but a great thing to come home to nonetheless.


















This thing is heaven under my fingertips. Typing is fun again.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Unicomp Spacesaver

That doth not seem to be Tenkeyless


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *faraz1729*


Had a nice surprise waiting for me when I got home. Okay, so it wasn't really a surprise, but a great thing to come home to nonetheless.


















This thing is heaven under my fingertips. Typing is fun again.










Which model is that?


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*


Mods, please don't ban ripster. He is one of the best posters ITT imo. Seriously.

Btw, re: Blue Cherries and Buckling Springs... I have never tried Buckling Springs but would be very interested in getting one. But I love Tenkeyless design only.

Any new BS Tenkeyless I can get that doesn't cost a ton on ebay (IBM Model M Spacesaver)?


Thanks for your support but it sounds like I can't post in this thread. If you have a question you know where to find me.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


Which model is that?


That's the Tactile Touch NKRO (he posted it in the Mechanical Keyboard Club too hehe).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Thanks for your support but it sounds like I can't post in this thread. If you have a question you know where to find me.


It's not that you can't post, but you just need to shut up and move forward. Let it go! Do you know what I'm talking about?

You used to be a real benefit to this thread, but you've done almost nothing for the past month or so but post garbage and it's high time that you stop. I mean, you either make a reference to being on topic, or you make some negative commend about the guide itself. I mean, regarding the negative comments alone, all you're doing is trolling because you should send Manyak a private message instead of crapping in his thread.

Or there's another alternative: if you don't like Overclock.net, then stop coming here. I mean, it looks to me like you don't like this place.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*


That doth not seem to be Tenkeyless










The only PC-compatible tenkeyless buckling spring keyboard around is the Model M Space Saving Keyboard. On the flipside, the SSK is a pretty big keyboard for a tenkeyless, and the Unicomp Spacesaver is only about an inch or wider than the SSK.

Unicomp is supposedly making a buckling spring keyboard in the form factor of the old IBM M4-1 laptop keyboard. We used to insert Duke Nukem Forever jokes after talking about the Unicomp board, but Gearbox has ruined that one for us.


----------



## webwit

A NIB Unicomp Space Saver (the tenkeyless type) sold for only 114 EUR the other day on Yahoo Auctions Japan.

This NIB IBM Space Saver from 1992 has a BIN of 197 EUR. Now that's a nice box, better than those scruffy ones by ncbound. Bidding starts much lower.

Me, I like this one I picked up there once:


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*


That doth not seem to be Tenkeyless










Like ch_123 said, it's only a smidge bigger than the IBM Model M Spacesaver (which isn't really compact) and still gives you the num-pad to work with.


----------



## candy_van

Quote:



Originally Posted by *faraz1729*


Had a nice surprise waiting for me when I got home. Okay, so it wasn't really a surprise, but a great thing to come home to nonetheless.

This thing is heaven under my fingertips. Typing is fun again.











Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


That's the Tactile Touch NKRO (he posted it in the Mechanical Keyboard Club too hehe).


They're sold out (again) on EK....I BLAME YOUUUUUU!!!!! *shakes fist*








I'm definitely getting myself a Filco one way or another this holiday season, either a Linear Force or a Tactile Touch.

TBH I really don't mind typing on the MX Blacks though.
I know most say it's awful, but I wound up bottoming out a lot with MX Browns anyway so it almost doesn't matter then I guess


----------



## ripster

The guy that runs Geekhack heard from Unicomp that they are working on a new buckling spring Mini.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


A NIB Unicomp Space Saver (the tenkeyless type) sold for only 114 EUR the other day on Yahoo Auctions Japan.


Now, I read "NIB" "Yahoo Auctions Japan" "Space Saver" and saw your picture of the -003, and was just about to raeg at the prospect of a missed oppurtunity...

Then I realized you meant _that_ kind of Space Saver...

Quote:



Like ch_123 said, it's only a smidge bigger than the IBM Model M Spacesaver (which isn't really compact) and still gives you the num-pad to work with.


Don't get me wrong, I'd take my trusty SSK over the Unicomp one any day of the week, but the oldschool SSK just isn't a practical or particularly beneficial product for Unicomp to offer.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Don't get me wrong, I'd take my trusty SSK over the Unicomp one any day of the week, but the oldschool SSK just isn't a practical or particularly beneficial product for Unicomp to offer.


I have a well taken care of Model M right now from 86 (UK made) and a Unicomp with little use, and I can definitely say the Model M is a better board for the most part.

The only think my Unicomp has over the Model M is looks (Black & Grey > Off-white/beige.)


----------



## ch_123

What's the part number on that '86 UK Model M?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


What's the part number on that '86 UK Model M?


I'll have to look it up when I get home, but here's a nice low quality shot of it:
That's how it looked before I packed it up and took it home (freebie from my Grandma.)
I can surely say, she kept the thing well cleaned and in good condition.

Though I can say for sure, that I was surprised by how responsive it still is; she got the computer through her job at Monsanto many a years back, and was a secretary for them up until 98 or 99. And used that keyboard almost the entire time while at home.


----------



## ch_123

That would be 96, not 86. It's 42H1292. Lexmark produced some beginning 1995, but they stopped making keyboards the following year, so from 1996 to 1999, they were produced by IBM's Greenock plant in Scotland.

Unicomp's Customizer is based on that part number of Model M.


----------



## webwit

ch_123 must be some kind of weirdo, recognizing the year and part number, just from a vague photograph







I bet he plays LED label trivia on Saturday nights.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


That would be 96, not 86. It's 42H1292. Lexmark produced some beginning 1995, but they stopped making keyboards the following year, so from 1996 to 1999, they were produced by IBM's Greenock plant in Scotland.

Unicomp's Customizer is based on that part number of Model M.


Then there's a misprint on the label as it says 86 on it.

Though what identifies it as a 96?


----------



## ch_123

Sure it wasn't the copyright? That said, some Greenock keyboards were made in 1919, so maybe there were additional time machine hacks afoot.

I know when it was made because of the part number. How do I know the part number? Webwit's post has a clue


----------



## Tator Tot

So wait... you guessed it based on the LED cover label?

Part number reads: 1390120 if that helps at all.


----------



## webwit

Looks like a Frankenstein board then. The LED label wasn't made until a decade later. Bottom 1986 139020, top much newer, inside.. unknown.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


Looks like a Frankenstein board then. The LED label wasn't made until a decade later. Bottom 1986 139020, top much newer, inside.. unknown.


I'll ask her if she ever had it refurbished or fixed as that might be one explanation.

Though; is there anything on the PCB and such which would elude to a true DOM?


----------



## ch_123

The significance of the LED label is to do with the controller design that they used in the 42H1292. In the 42H', the controller is a small PCB underneath the lock light area, in prior IBM designs, it was a long controller located underneath the internal keyboard assembly, approximately between F1 and F8, and the LEDs were on a little PCB that hooked up to the controller using a PCB.

Due to the layout of the PCB on the 42H1292, the location of the LEDs is actually different to that on the earlier models (see pics below of older Model M vs Model M 42H1292), so if you have LEDs and the label of a 42H1292 (which is white as opposed to green/black) you probably have the internals of a 42H1292.


















Oh, to make things even more confusing, here's a 1390120 -










You may notice that it's missing something









You can open up the keyboard and see where the controller board is, or you can probably tell by the LED lights - if they light up, and look like they are in the right place under the transparent plastic, you probably have a 42H1292 internal. If the LED lights don't work, you probably have a 1390120, but I get the feeling you might have mentioned that if that was the case









Quote:



The LED label wasn't made until a decade later


That, and the blue IBM logo, suggesting it was made sometime between 1992 and 1999.


----------



## Tator Tot

When I get a chance to disassemble I'll report back on that.

An oddity for sure.

Mine has the normal cable on the right like the 4H so I'm going to assume that they either fixed a broken board and put the old back on with a new top or something to that sort.


----------



## ch_123

Oh, if the cable is a straight, non-removable cable that enters above the numpad, then it definitely has 42H1292 internals.

Now, why they'd bother keeping the old back is a mystery. I have seen 1390120s that were refurbished in 96/97 by a third party. They'd look identical to the original, except there would be a sticker on the back noting that it was refurbished. Perhaps the back of it was broken or damaged, and some techie decided to remove the back off an older one to replace it.


----------



## Tator Tot

I'm pretty sure the Machine is from the Mid to Late 80's, so it's possible the keyboard broke and someone at Monsanto refurb'd it.

Either way, I'll still crack'r open to see if anything is wonky on the inside.

It wouldn't surprise me if the insides were a tad goofy as well.


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Does anybody know when FILCO will receive more Brown 104 key keyboards?

I now officially hate fruitdealer!

EDIT: and the entire starcraft 2 community.


----------



## Faraz

Seems like they're on a pretty lengthy back order this time. Email them and ask. Brian is usually quick to respond.


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *faraz1729* 
Seems like they're on a pretty lengthy back order this time. Email them and ask. Brian is usually quick to respond.

lol, I have...

4 times.


----------



## Tator Tot

If you're looking for Cherry MX-Blue board, get the Rosewill RK-9000, it's made by the same company (Costar) and has NKRO if you slap on a USB to PS/2 adapter.


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
If you're looking for Cherry MX-Blue board, get the Rosewill RK-9000, it's made by the same company (Costar) and has NKRO if you slap on a USB to PS/2 adapter.

Nope, I'm looking for a brown with printed keys. Looks like i'll have to order from Tiwan for 154 bucks. Not bad IMO. http://www.armygroup.com.tw/shop/index.php

wondering if I should pull the trigger







.

I think I'll do that and get the browns when they come in stock.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi* 
Nope, I'm looking for a brown with printed keys. Looks like i'll have to order from Tiwan for 154 bucks. Not bad IMO. http://www.armygroup.com.tw/shop/index.php

wondering if I should pull the trigger







.

I think I'll do that and get the browns when they come in stock.

You can get a DSI or iRocks

There's also Das Keyboards (Refurb) or (New)


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
You can get a DSI or iRocks

There's also Das Keyboards (Refurb) or (New)

The das refurbished looks like my best match. Thank You! I HATE SC2 so much right now!

How do I get the student discount?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi* 
The das refurbished looks like my best match. Thank You! I HATE SC2 so much right now!

How do I get the student discount?

You need to Email Das and then email you back a Cupon code to use.

EDIT: Use your student email as well. (needs to end in .edu)


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
You need to Email Das and then email you back a Cupon code to use.

EDIT: Use your student email as well. (needs to end in .edu)


Well, i just did the math, and ordering from tiwan will cost the same as ordering from the united states so I just went ahead and did the former. Hopefully it'll get here within the next three weeks







. I ordered with paypal, so if anything goes wrong, I should be able to get my money back







.

cost + shipping from EKB: 143+14 = 157 USD
cost + shipping from Tiwan: 4870 TWD --> 163 USD

http://www.armygroup.com.tw/shop/goods.php?id=1675

You were very helpful though tatertot







. I'm just loyal to Filco.

EDIT: also, it looks like i'll get yellow WASD keys with directions as a free gift







. I'll report back on that.


----------



## Tator Tot

No problem man, I help out where I can


----------



## waar

blue switches okay for gaming? Elitekeyboard seems to be out of the browns switches on the full kb and compact kb







doesn't give an ETA on a new shipment either.


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waar* 
blue switches okay for gaming? Elitekeyboard seems to be out of the browns switches on the full kb and compact kb







doesn't give an ETA on a new shipment either.

That is because a korean who won a MAJOR SC2 tournament used a filco with browns. Now they are almost impossible to get. I just ordered one from Tiwan though.


----------



## waar

well, that sucks.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waar* 
blue switches okay for gaming? Elitekeyboard seems to be out of the browns switches on the full kb and compact kb







doesn't give an ETA on a new shipment either.

Like I said before:

Quote:

You can get a DSI or iRocks

There's also Das Keyboards (Refurb) or (New)
As for blues and gaming, it's all preference. Try to find a Black Widow in store somewhere to try the switches.


----------



## waar

sorry, didn't read last 2 pages.

thx tho, i'll try to find a black window and i'll look into those keyboards.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi* 
That is because a korean who won a MAJOR SC2 tournament used a filco with browns. Now they are almost impossible to get. I just ordered one from Tiwan though.

I thought you didn't like the browns.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi* 
That is because a korean who won a MAJOR SC2 tournament used a filco with browns. Now they are almost impossible to get. I just ordered one from Tiwan though.

which tournament was this? Last korean winner nestea wasn't using one, and the one before that was jinro who's not korean.


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ikrin* 
I thought you didn't like the browns.









Nope. I didn't like the "otakuness"







and I also wanted a full keyboard. I







my browns







.

Concider yourself lucky. Otaku won't be available for a LOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNG time.


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone* 
which tournament was this? Last korean winner nestea wasn't using one, and the one before that was jinro who's not korean.













Fruitdealer. That SC2 player is the person who caused this depletion of stocks.

*sorry for the double post







.


----------



## ramenbuoy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi* 





Fruitdealer. That SC2 player is the person who caused this depletion of stocks.

*sorry for the double post







.

was a ****ing awesome match though IMO

Cherry MX Blue Filco for Black Ops? What do you guys think? I have kinda dainty fingers so I don't want them to get super tired :<


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramenbuoy* 
was a ****ing awesome match though IMO

Cherry MX Blue Filco for Black Ops? What do you guys think? I have kinda dainty fingers so I don't want them to get super tired :<

Should be OK for Black Ops. I wouldn't use them for really fast paced games like UT though.


----------



## ramenbuoy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


Should be OK for Black Ops. I wouldn't use them for really fast paced games like UT though.


what would you use for UT then? I want ultra light key press with ability to double tap and have it reg as well as be able to press 3+ buttons at the same time. im a nub :<<<<


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ramenbuoy*


what would you use for UT then? I want ultra light key press with ability to double tap and have it reg as well as be able to press 3+ buttons at the same time. im a nub :<<<<


Most people don't want MX Blues for double tapping. I didn't realize you ever double tapped in Black Ops.

MX Browns will probably be better.


----------



## runeazn

anybody knows if the noppoo choc on toaboa are pre order?
since my mom will be in chian th next 2 weeks and i would like to get a noppoo choc blue switch and a ducky brown switch









and some KBC keycaps


----------



## ripster

Are you sure you know Chinese? You even spelled Taobao wrong. I'll chalk up Chian to a typo.


----------



## runeazn

yeah i am pretty sure..


----------



## ripster

I recommend a mechanical keyboard for less typos.


----------



## runeazn

yeah i knwo my g19 is way to big!
my kb has a 45 Degree angle ..


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi*


Well, I'm not satisfied with my filco purchase. I just tested my typing abilities on it vs my laptop's keyboard, and needless to say, there is a big difference. I can type 15wpm faster on my laptop than on this thing with less errors (98% vs. 93%). Once the newness wore off, I finally grasped how dumb of a purchase this was. It has cherry browns and is otaku (no key printing (what a mistake that was)) and tenkeyless.









So... How much should I sell it for?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi*


I never look at my keys when I'm typing lol, but it does make typing in long strings of numbers (5+) hard. My laptop has a normal sized keyboard AFAIK and I type beautifully in it (perhaps I'm just very used to it). I make WAY more mistakes when I'm typing on my filco than on my laptops keyboard. I'm talking 52WPM w/ 93-95% accuracy on my filco VS. 68WPM w/ 96-100% accuracy on my laptop. The keys seem way too hard to press and I find myself either bottoming out each time (WHICH IS A LOUD NOISE AT UPWARDS OF 50 WPM) or not getting the keys to actuate. It has been 5 months since I bought this, so it is not a brash decision--I want to sell it.


Just going off this. Guess you just needed printed keys?


----------



## ramenbuoy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


Most people don't want MX Blues for double tapping. I didn't realize you ever double tapped in Black Ops.

MX Browns will probably be better.


yeah you double tap with lean in order to quick peek corners. I play this game competitively sooo... it's all about manipulating netcode and hitboxes so you can see the enemy but not get hit. that and crouch hopping (silent running) requires double tapping as well as holding a few buttons (not including when you call things on vent which is one additional key)


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


Just going off this. Guess you just needed printed keys?


Well I finally tested my wpm against a rubber dome on my desk and the problem is my keyboard elevation (the filco was wayyy better wpm wise and comfort wise). Gaming on a rubber dome is uncomfortable as well. It's been three days and I miss that keyboard to death. so.... I decided to order one that wasn't otaku and had a number pad







.


----------



## ripster

KBC Keycaps are nice. Not sure where you get them though other than TaoBao.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi*


Well I finally tested my wpm against a rubber dome on my desk and the problem is my keyboard elevation (the filco was wayyy better wpm wise and comfort wise). Gaming on a rubber dome is uncomfortable as well. It's been three days and I miss that keyboard to death. so.... I decided to order one that wasn't otaku and had a number pad







.


Ah-ha, you _were_ using it wrong! More evidence against anybody who doesn't prefer mechanicals by a wide margin! Huzzah!










Alright, let's cut off that power trip right there...

On a more serious note I'm glad that some ergonomic changes worked out for you and you now enjoy your MX Brown Filco.

On an ergonomic note of my own: The mouse platform I bought is working well but due to the clearance of my keyboard/tray had to be mounted upside down (clamp from bottom of tray up instead of clamping to desk) to properly put it about 1.25-1.5" above my numpad. End result is fantastic: Ergonomic to use my trackball with my keyboard for long periods of time, and when I want to use my numpad it's trivial to move. A bit of an adjustment to be sure but one that makes it more comfortable to use the computer for long periods of time.


----------



## ramenbuoy

Any opinions on the razer mechanical keyboard? thinking about getting it, because it is in the same pricerange... the non backlight version is70 bucks though


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ramenbuoy*


Any opinions on the razer mechanical keyboard? thinking about getting it, because it is in the same pricerange... the non backlight version is70 bucks though


http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:12841


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ramenbuoy*


Any opinions on the razer mechanical keyboard? thinking about getting it, because it is in the same pricerange... the non backlight version is70 bucks though


It's a good deal for the plain version, probably one of the cheapest board with blues you can find. Just be aware of the key limitations if you aren't using the WASD cluster. I imagine they'd be even worse then normal, since they had to switch it up to get the WASD working nicely.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
It's a good deal for the plain version, probably one of the cheapest board with blues you can find. Just be aware of the key limitations if you aren't using the WASD cluster. I imagine they'd be even worse then normal, since they had to switch it up to get the WASD working nicely.

I like the I-rocks better then the razor. It has browns, not blues. Its a nice black with no bling added. And its not Razor









The layout is a bit odd. The ? takes getting used to. But its a good solid board and I like it as a first try for mechanical. I now want a bigger board for the home computer so it will become my "work" keyboard.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waar* 
blue switches okay for gaming? Elitekeyboard seems to be out of the browns switches on the full kb and compact kb







doesn't give an ETA on a new shipment either.

Yeah, they're fine. The only true problem with the Cherry MX Blues is double-tapping when gaming competitively. I have the Tactile Click NKRO, and I am absolutely in love with it; it is extremely versatile for me and the feel is top-of-the-line. But I'm not a competitive gamer.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waar* 
sorry, didn't read last 2 pages.

thx tho, i'll try to find a black window and i'll look into those keyboards.

Meh, in the opinion of mechanical keyboard enthusiasts, the Black Widows aren't worth the money. The OEM Razer is using is iOne (the manufacturer who makes the iOne Scorpius M10 which is shown in the OP of this thread), and neither of the 2 models have full NKRO. So, I think both of them should cost about $20-30 less.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramenbuoy* 
was a ****ing awesome match though IMO

Cherry MX Blue Filco for Black Ops? What do you guys think? I have kinda dainty fingers so I don't want them to get super tired :<

I personally guarantee you that your fingers will *not* get tired. The experience will be nothing but superior to the Razer Lycosa (that was my previous keyboard). Except, of course, the Cherry MX Blues are supposed to be no good for competitive gaming.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramenbuoy* 
what would you use for UT then? I want ultra light key press with ability to double tap and have it reg as well as be able to press 3+ buttons at the same time. im a nub :<<<<

Not all mechanical keyboards have full NKRO, so be sure to look for "NKRO" or "N-Key Rollover" as a feature. But for that feature to even function, a USB to PS/2 keyboard adapter (a purple one) must be used (most of the full NKRO boards come with one).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramenbuoy* 
Any opinions on the razer mechanical keyboard? thinking about getting it, because it is in the same pricerange... the non backlight version is70 bucks though

For competitive gaming, this is a terrible keyboard because it has the Cherry MX Blues which are said to be bad for double-tapping in competitive gaming. Your best bet for a switch type is either the Cherry MX Blacks, or the Cherry MX Browns. The Blacks could be the best choice, but the Browns are said to be nearly a perfect middle ground between gaming and typing while the Blacks are said to be the "worst" mechanical switch for typing.

So for competitive gaming, I think I'll just go ahead and recommend the Steelseries 7G, or the 6Gv2 because it has the Cherry MX Blacks. But don't worry about the force which is required to press the Blacks: your fingers will not get tired. If anything, it'll be a relief when upgrading from the Lycosa. Your fingers will thank you upon each and every keystroke.


----------



## ripster

6KRO over USB is good enough.

The Rosewill RK-9000 is the best deal out there right now in Cherry Blues.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
6KRO over USB is good enough.

The Rosewill RK-9000 is the best deal out there right now in Cherry Blues.

Yeah, what a great keyboard for double tapping in competitive gaming.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Yeah, what a great keyboard for double tapping in competitive gaming.









For people coming off a rubber dome it won't make much of a difference to them.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
For people coming off a rubber dome it won't make much of a difference to them.

But ramenbuoy said he plays Black Ops competitively.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But ramenbuoy said he plays Black Ops competitively.

Usually that means he's apart of an online circuit.

Very few "competitive" players are actually part of any of the major circuits. Which I don't think BlackOps is even in a major circuit.

BlackOps does not require lots of double tapping, or really any at all.

And again, coming off a rubber dome, you'd be able to double tap faster because of the stiffer keys that domes are.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Usually that means he's apart of an online circuit.

Very few "competitive" players are actually part of any of the major circuits. Which I don't think BlackOps is even in a major circuit.

BlackOps does not require lots of double tapping, or really any at all.

And again, coming off a rubber dome, you'd be able to double tap faster because of the stiffer keys that domes are.

I couldn't even play CSS, which has no double tapping anywhere, and all I do is pub and gungame.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
So for competitive gaming, I think I'll just go ahead and recommend the Steelseries 7G, or the 6Gv2 because it has the Cherry MX Blacks. But don't worry about the force which is required to press the Blacks: your fingers will not get tired. If anything, it'll be a relief when upgrading from the Lycosa. Your fingers will thank you upon each and every keystroke.

I say browns>blacks. Blacks can become fatiguing, even coming from a rubber dome, and especially from a scissor-switch, laptop-style keyboard.


----------



## ripster

Most OCN members seem to do fine on Cherry Blues.

Anyway, the guy was asking about the Razer Black Widow so I was addressing his question.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I couldn't even play CSS, which has no double tapping anywhere, and all I do is pub and gungame.

From the (so far) 20 different people who have borrowed my MX-Blue board for a week, only one of them had an issue gaming on Blues; and that was with him playing Step Mania and him just hating the click.

I mean honestly, it's not that bad as people make it out to be.


----------



## Maytan

I haven't used Blues for gaming PERSONALLY, but based on what I can imagine I don't think I'd like them for games like TF2. In a game like BC2 or JC2, I think they'd be fine.


----------



## runeazn

hmm i want to buy a ducky board that is gaming optmized.

wasd keys are mx black other keys are mx brown numberkeypad is mx blue








3 different kinds of switches also it is NKRO









should i







?


----------



## LarsMarkelson

i play dota on blues and love it. not a ton of keyboard mashing in that game though.

personally i think the HHKB2 would be the best gaming kb because you can keep your mouse closer to the keyboard.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*


i play dota on blues and love it. not a ton of keyboard mashing in that game though.

personally i think the HHKB2/tenkeyless models would be the best gaming kb because you can keep your mouse closer to the keyboard.


Fixed.


----------



## thiru

Am I the only one who plays with his arms wide apart?


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Fixed.


no not fixed. i play on Tenkeyless all the time. HHKB2 would be narrower and more preferable to me, at least in theory at this point!


----------



## ErBall

I am unquestionably a newb when it comes to this field, but how drastic would the change be from going from an abs m1 to a keyboard with mx blues?

My last keyboards have all had scissor switches in them, and up until that massive newegg deal a while back had never used mechanical keybaords.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ErBall*


I am unquestionably a newb when it comes to this field, but how drastic would the change be from going from an abs m1 to a keyboard with mx blues?

My last keyboards have all had scissor switches in them, and up until that massive newegg deal a while back had never used mechanical keybaords.


MX-Blues are massively different.

The action on them is much more smooth but they click when you get to the bottom of the key stroke, and require less force to actuate.


----------



## ErBall

Is this a good board all around? I know it uses blues, but other than that I honestly don't know, geekhack just made me more confused, and honestly I feel like a tard when I'm there half the time.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823201040

If it is, is the price fair?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ErBall*


Is this a good board all around? I know it uses blues, but other than that I honestly don't know, geekhack just made me more confused, and honestly I feel like a tard when I'm there half the time.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823201040

If it is, is the price fair?


You could wait for a sale which brings it to roughly ~$80 or you can hock up some extra dough and get a Filco/Das.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ErBall*


Is this a good board all around? I know it uses blues, but other than that I honestly don't know, geekhack just made me more confused, and honestly I feel like a tard when I'm there half the time.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823201040

If it is, is the price fair?


$100? Yeah it's a fair price.

I can't say you'll like it or not. Though many people do. 
It's made by the same company that makes Ducky, Filco, & Das keyboards; Costar. And it's build is almost exactly like that of a Filco.

I'd wait for a sale before you buy to try it.


----------



## webwit

The Ducky isn't Costar but cheaper Datacomp OEM competition:
http://www.datacomp.com.tw/DCK100.htm


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


The Ducky isn't Costar but cheaper Datacomp OEM competition:
http://www.datacomp.com.tw/DCK100.htm


Edit; nvm, the page finally loaded. It does use a proprietary controller, though, right? If so, what's good/bad about said controller?


----------



## ripster

All motherboards made by Foxconn are the same as well.


----------



## rpgman1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


The Ducky isn't Costar but cheaper Datacomp OEM competition:
http://www.datacomp.com.tw/DCK100.htm


Seems to load for me just fine. I'm looking for a mechanical keyboard suited for typing and gaming. I recently got back into PC gaming and mostly play MMORPGs and FPS. I heard Cherry MX Browns are suited to these tasks. Don't know whether to go Das, Filco, Deck Legend, or XArmor (when cherry browns & backlighting will come out later).


----------



## ramenbuoy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Usually that means he's apart of an online circuit.

Very few "competitive" players are actually part of any of the major circuits. Which I don't think BlackOps is even in a major circuit.

BlackOps does not require lots of double tapping, or really any at all.

And again, coming off a rubber dome, you'd be able to double tap faster because of the stiffer keys that domes are.

mmm

BlackOps only has CoDnetwork pugs and draft rankings currently. There are 3 LANs that my team will be attending coming up before the end of january. CoD 4 still has 1 LAN and 1 league left and we all still play CS 1.6 competitively.

I am going to check out the MX blacks in the steel series. Why does it suck so much for typing, because I type alot but I game alot as well. I read about the force needed, and would you recommend the steel series over whatever brand (prolly filco) selling mx browns?

edit heres what I was thinking.

either a Filco Otaku Tenkeyless Cherry MX Brown/blue, and if you think that's deece, where should I grab it from? Anyone have any experience with online retailers?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramenbuoy* 
mmm

BlackOps only has CoDnetwork pugs and draft rankings currently. There are 3 LANs that my team will be attending coming up before the end of january. CoD 4 still has 1 LAN and 1 league left and we all still play CS 1.6 competitively.

I am going to check out the MX blacks in the steel series. Why does it suck so much for typing, because I type alot but I game alot as well. I read about the force needed, and would you recommend the steel series over whatever brand (prolly filco) selling mx browns?

edit heres what I was thinking.

either a Filco Otaku Tenkeyless Cherry MX Brown/blue, and if you think that's deece, where should I grab it from? Anyone have any experience with online retailers?

http://elitekeyboards.com/


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ErBall* 
Is this a good board all around? I know it uses blues, but other than that I honestly don't know, geekhack just made me more confused, and honestly I feel like a tard when I'm there half the time.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823201040

If it is, is the price fair?

I don't think it's all that confusing there. Here are two pretty well reviews under Rosewill.


----------



## Crazy9000

The problem is Geekhack speaks a different language then OCN. At OCN, we use text to communicate. At Geekhack they seem to use some form of picture language that uses youtube to explain complex concepts.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rpgman1* 
Seems to load for me just fine. I'm looking for a mechanical keyboard suited for typing and gaming. I recently got back into PC gaming and mostly play MMORPGs and FPS. I heard Cherry MX Browns are suited to these tasks. Don't know whether to go Das, Filco, Deck Legend, or XArmor (when cherry browns & backlighting will come out later).

There are no Deck keyboards with brown switches. They only come with black or clear.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramenbuoy* 
mmm

BlackOps only has CoDnetwork pugs and draft rankings currently. There are 3 LANs that my team will be attending coming up before the end of january. CoD 4 still has 1 LAN and 1 league left and we all still play CS 1.6 competitively.

I am going to check out the MX blacks in the steel series. Why does it suck so much for typing, because I type alot but I game alot as well. I read about the force needed, and would you recommend the steel series over whatever brand (prolly filco) selling mx browns?

edit heres what I was thinking.

either a Filco Otaku Tenkeyless Cherry MX Brown/blue, and if you think that's deece, where should I grab it from? Anyone have any experience with online retailers?

It is up to your own preference. If you have had experience with any tactile switch, then you would be well-informed to expect no substantial amount feedback from black switches.

I would say that if you needed to double-tap or do quick actions, then browns would be better, given the low amount of force required. They are also not as noisy as blues.

You will be hard-pressed to find otakus in stock, unless you buy them used from other people.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
The problem is Geekhack speaks a different language then OCN. At OCN, we use text to communicate. At Geekhack they seem to use some form of picture language that uses youtube to explain complex concepts.









So true.


----------



## ripster

I prefer Legos to make a point.


----------



## ramenbuoy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


There are no Deck keyboards with brown switches. They only come with black or clear.

It is up to your own preference. If you have had experience with any tactile switch, then you would be well-informed to expect no substantial amount feedback from black switches.

I would say that if you needed to double-tap or do quick actions, then browns would be better, given the low amount of force required. They are also not as noisy as blues.

You will be hard-pressed to find otakus in stock, unless you buy them used from other people.








So true.



that is my biggest problem. I have been searching for 2 days and I can't find anything :<< i'm even willing to take mx blues but I honestly can't find an otaku tenkeyless.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


I prefer Legos to make a point.










Where's the W???

QQ, Rage, WTHBBQ


----------



## runeazn

hmm, getting ducky its so duckinism


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Where's the W???

QQ, Rage, WTHBBQ


Also no T, D, or L.

WTDL

What to do later?

TURKEY!!!!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runeazn* 
hmm i want to buy a ducky board that is gaming optmized.

wasd keys are mx black other keys are mx brown numberkeypad is mx blue








3 different kinds of switches also it is NKRO









should i







?

I guess it would be fine, but it would suck to type on it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
Am I the only one who plays with his arms wide apart?

I think so. But why do you do that? I mean, why not just relax and allow your elbows to remain at your sides?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
MX-Blues are massively different.

The action on them is much more smooth but they click when you get to the bottom of the key stroke, and require less force to actuate.

They actually click about halfway through the keystroke.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ErBall* 
Is this a good board all around? I know it uses blues, but other than that I honestly don't know, geekhack just made me more confused, and honestly I feel like a tard when I'm there half the time.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823201040

If it is, is the price fair?

It's identical to the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click with a few very tiny exceptions that don't really matter that much. I mean, it's based off the Costar CST-104 which is the same foundation for the Majestouch boards.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramenbuoy* 
mmm

BlackOps only has CoDnetwork pugs and draft rankings currently. There are 3 LANs that my team will be attending coming up before the end of january. CoD 4 still has 1 LAN and 1 league left and we all still play CS 1.6 competitively.

I am going to check out the MX blacks in the steel series. Why does it suck so much for typing, because I type alot but I game alot as well. I read about the force needed, and would you recommend the steel series over whatever brand (prolly filco) selling mx browns?

edit heres what I was thinking.

either a Filco Otaku Tenkeyless Cherry MX Brown/blue, and if you think that's deece, where should I grab it from? Anyone have any experience with online retailers?

It's not that the Blacks suck for typing, but rather it's that out of all the mechanical switches available (or perhaps out of all the _popular_ switches), it's the worst one for typing. But it's still as good as (if not better than) rubber domes.

If you were to buy a Majestouch, then just get it from Elite Keyboards because it's almost the only place that sells them unless you get lucky and find one through eBay.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramenbuoy* 
that is my biggest problem. I have been searching for 2 days and I can't find anything :<< i'm even willing to take mx blues but I honestly can't find an otaku tenkeyless.

2 days is actually nothing; I spent almost an entire month and a half making sure that the keyboard I ended up with was the most perfect match possible for me, and the result made it worth every last minute I put into it.


----------



## EZjijy

Elite Keyboards took down Full size Brown/Blues and Tenkeyless Browns. :/ They must be on huge backorders.


----------



## webwit

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


It's not that the Blacks suck for typing, but rather it's that out of all the mechanical switches available (or perhaps out of all the _popular_ switches), it's the worst one for typing.


You are confusing personal preference with quality. It's like advising on a forum that apples are worse than oranges, because you don't like apples. This is a great switch if you type with force but don't want to bottom out.


----------



## ripster

Some people like to be told what to do.

In the meantime - Happy Thanksgiving Everyone! - and count your blessings, especially if you have 6KRO over USB!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


You are confusing personal preference with quality. It's like advising on a forum that apples are worse than oranges, because you don't like apples. This is a great switch if you type with force but don't want to bottom out.


Actually, no. I'm not. All I am saying is this: when people say that the Cherry MX Blacks should be avoided if the primary use of the keyboard is typing, then all they're saying is that there are switches that are better suited for that for most people (in the context of making a suggestion, not telling somebody what to do. heh). I mean even though I didn't explicitly _say_ so, I am fully aware that there are people who actually prefer the Blacks for typing.

But there's something else that I didn't explicitly say: I was speaking in general terms. I believe that it goes without saying that it always comes down to personal preference. But hey! Isn't it that true for most material possessions?!









Although, I see where you're coming from: there are many people who actually need to be told such things. I mean, I remember now that I've told people in this thread that it all comes down to personal preference, and then they actually thanked me for clearing it up!


----------



## yawnbox

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EZjijy*


Elite Keyboards took down Full size Brown/Blues and Tenkeyless Browns. :/ They must be on huge backorders.


I've been revisiting the site daily for the tenkeyless brown. *sigh*


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yawnbox* 
I've been revisiting the site daily for the tenkeyless brown. *sigh*

Probably not going to happen for a while. The tenkeyless seem to be generally in higher demand than the 104-key full-sized versions.


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

you guys can order filcos from Taiwan and it will cost less than ordering from EKB (thats shipped







) I ordered from armygroup and they just mailed it







.


----------



## fssbzz

http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/8...l-backlit.html


----------



## TwoCables

I'm sorry, but it's Taiwan, not Tiwan.


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I'm sorry, but it's Taiwan, not Tiwan.

Fix'd. A pm would have been better than creating a post concerning one spelling mistake. You understood what country I was referencing and I'm sure other people have that capability.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi* 
Fix'd. A pm would have been better than creating a post concerning one spelling mistake. You understood what country I was referencing and I'm sure other people have that capability.

It's Fixed not fix'd...






















lol jk


----------



## rebelextrm02

Will a mechanical keyboard with thin low profile keys ever be made or does the mechanics of a mechanical keyboard require the big thick keys? I want a new keyboard but cannot stand big thick keys.


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rebelextrm02*


Will a mechanical keyboard with thin low profile keys ever be made or does the mechanics of a mechanical keyboard require the big thick keys? I want a new keyboard but cannot stand big thick keys.


There's the Cherry ML series, which has low-profile keys but apparently don't work as well as keyboards with Cherry MX keys. HERE is a review of a keyboard with Cherry ML keys, by our very own Phaedrus2129.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

The whole point of mechanical keyboard is that they actuate half way. I don't think thin keys would give you the same benefits. Thus I don't think they'll ever make a thin version of mechanical keyboard that works as well as other full size mechanicals.


----------



## rebelextrm02

Hmm I may just have to get more acquainted with the tall thick keys. :/ Variety is the spice of life right?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Cherry MX switches have a 4mm travel with actuation at 2mm
Cherry ML switches have a 1.5mm travel with actuation at 1mm
Alps switches have a 3.5mm travel with actuation at ~2mm
"Tall" rubber domes have a 3.5-4mm travel with actuation at bottom
Scissor switches have a 1.5-2mm travel with actuation at bottom


----------



## W4LNUT5

You could find a keyboard with ML switches and try it. You may in fact like them. No one can tell you what you're preferences are.

I would recommend not paying more than $25 for G84-4100


----------



## rebelextrm02

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
You could find a keyboard with ML switches and try it. You may in fact like them. No one can tell you what you're preferences are.

I would recommend not paying more than $25 for G84-4100

That's a possibility but I think I recall reading somewhere about the board with the ml switch having sticking problems. I can't get over the looks of it either. I may just have to go do some side by side comparing.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

You could always buy that _other_ Cherry ML keyboard...

http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
It's Fixed not fix'd...






















lol _jk_

Is Joking, not jk.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
Is Joking, not jk.









It's it's, not is.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebelextrm02* 
Will a mechanical keyboard with thin low profile keys ever be made or does the mechanics of a mechanical keyboard require the big thick keys? I want a new keyboard but cannot stand big thick keys.

What is it that you don't like about them?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
Is Joking, not jk.









"Jk" is "Just Kidding". In the past, it used to be "j/k".


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gonX* 
It's it's, not is.










Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
"Jk" is "Just Kidding". In the past, it used to be "j/k".

/OFF TOPIC


----------



## rebelextrm02

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
What is it that you don't like about them?

I guess my preference stems from using the older dell keyboards at school with the big noisy punchy keys. I didn't like how they felt or how much effort it took to type with them. I then moved onto laptop keyboards and loved how easy they were to touch type with. Naturally, when I buit my first pc and purchased my own keyboard I bought one with similar profiles to laptop keys, though I don't get the same satisfaction out of it that I did with the laptop. I've just never liked big tall keys since. I can honestly say I've never tried any of the new mechanical keyboards with the cherry mx switches in them. I don't even know where one would go to try out one.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The old Dell keyboards you hated were rubber domes.

Laptop keyboards are scissor switches.

Scissor switches are closer to mechanicals than to rubber domes.

You didn't dislike the Dells because they had full travel keys, you disliked the Dells because they were terrible high-force rubber dome keyboards.

Either that or they were old Dell AT101s with complicated black Alps switches, which aren't much better than crappy rubber domes.


----------



## KipH

So today I have my 1 year old daughter to look after by myself. After a McDonald's I went to the local computer department store. It was vaguely disappointing. 20 or 30 small stores all selling the same %95 of stuff with one or 2 items unique in each store. And no one speaks English!

On the way home I see a store I have passed many times and dismissed as just a 3C (sorta the Wallmart of computers). But something caught my eye. I go in and am quite impressed. They have good headphones, a good selection of cases and power supplies and in general a step up from normal. I am wandering around in a happy daze when I hear angles singing over my left shoulder. I look up and what do I see:

A whole row of Mechanical Keyboards. There are 3 (THREE!) filco's sitting side by side. I could click a black, brown and blue at the same time AT THE SAME TIME! Steelseries, sidwinder x4 and x6, and others. The Irocks was not even worthy to sit there and was on a whole other shelf. They seem to be about the same price as PCHome and Army group too, so bonus. Now I got to convince the wife.

I can ship you one if you want. They had English only or with Chinese, but I did not see any 10key less ones. They can order though if you are desperate. My usual deal is cost+1 Dr. Pepper. This is not a great deal but they are there. I do this so they start seeing me as a valued customer and making with the better deals. Like the all pink Filco they told me about.


----------



## webwit

Pink Filco is pink. I'm surprised you were surprised to see mechanical keyboards in a shop. You live in the mechanical keyboard center of the world.


----------



## KipH

I have found Taiwan to be the maker off all things good but the user of none. Many products made here can only be sold here if first imported back to Taiwan from the tax free zones. Its hard to buy an actual Foxcon mobo for instance while Gigabyte, MSI and Acer are everywhere.

Last computex I asked everyone if they had mechanical boards and only POS even knew what they were. Other than the thermaltake. like I said above, vaguely disappointing.

For keyboards the best I have ever seen in stock is this I-rocks, and I bought it


----------



## webwit

I remember I-Rocks. They had this strange marketing strategy spearheaded by a metrosexual guy/girl apparently cloned from a Keanu Reeves mole. I am not sure who they were trying to address. Apparently gamers.


----------



## KipH

Aww. I got the 6230. But I like that ones lay out a bit better. The ? key is in the better place. Is that one mechanical? They don't mention and I got mine because it has browns; or Tea colour as we say here









I'll have to go look at that one. That guy looks like several of my friends here. If you can't tell the difference between a guy and a girl I suggest you stay out of Thailand


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


The old Dell keyboards you hated were rubber domes.

Laptop keyboards are scissor switches.

Scissor switches are closer to mechanicals than to rubber domes.

You didn't dislike the Dells because they had full travel keys, you disliked the Dells because they were terrible high-force rubber dome keyboards.

Either that or they were old Dell AT101s with complicated black Alps switches, which aren't much better than crappy rubber domes.


Sounds like he was talking about a Dell AT alright...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *rebelextrm02*


I guess my preference stems from using the older dell keyboards at school with the big noisy punchy keys. I didn't like how they felt or how much effort it took to type with them. I then moved onto laptop keyboards and loved how easy they were to touch type with. Naturally, when I buit my first pc and purchased my own keyboard I bought one with similar profiles to laptop keys, though I don't get the same satisfaction out of it that I did with the laptop. I've just never liked big tall keys since. I can honestly say I've never tried any of the new mechanical keyboards with the cherry mx switches in them. I don't even know where one would go to try out one.


Yeah, well I personally guarantee you that this is absolutely *not* now a good mechanical keyboard feels that has a Cherry MX type of switch (like Brown, Blue, Clear, etc).

To try and prove it, here's my experience: for close to 8 or 9 years, I had this keyboard (not my picture) which is a Dell RT7D10 - it's just some cheap $15-20 rubber dome board. But I loved it because of the media keys and also because I didn't know any better; to me, all keyboards were the same except for their external features and appearance. I didn't know that I could have a keyboard that feels better to type on.

But then almost a year ago now I upgraded to the Razer Lycosa and I loved it. To me, it felt like a superior keyboard in every way. However, I didn't know that the reason _why_ it felt superior was because it wasn't old and worn out like that Dell board (I didn't understand the way rubber dome boards wear out). I mean, the rubber sheet inside of the Lycosa was fresh and new while the Dell's was older and a bit worn out, and so that's why I liked the Lycosa. In fact, I liked the Lycosa so much that I highly recommended it every chance I got. One of my favorite things were the low-profile keys!! I was convinced that it was much easier to type on this keyboard due to the keys being of the low-profile variety (but this is not a scissor-switch keyboard), and it was because I didn't understand yet that the only reason why I liked it was because it was a brand new rubber dome keyboard while my old rubber dome was on its last leg. So at this point, I decided that I was never again going to get a keyboard with the standard-sized keys.

But then to make a very long story short, I started having some technical problems with the Lycosa and eventually ended up upgrading to the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO (currently temporarily not available), and that changed everything. This keyboard is dramatically and significantly superior to both that Dell board I had as well as that Lycosa. Now I completely understand why there's a very strong following of good mechanical keyboards! I enjoy each and every keystroke; typing is actually _fun_ now. The sound of typing is pleasing to my ears. My keyboard looks really nice, sophisticated and classy. My keyboard is nice and heavy and feels like it's permanently attached to my desk (that is, while I'm using it). It just feels very solid. It's just significantly superior in every way imaginable!

In other words, I think Phaedrus2129 is right: those Dell boards you were forced to use were likely not very good at all.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


So today I have my 1 year old daughter to look after by myself. After a McDonald's I went to the local computer department store. It was vaguely disappointing. 20 or 30 small stores all selling the same %95 of stuff with one or 2 items unique in each store. And no one speaks English!

On the way home I see a store I have passed many times and dismissed as just a 3C (sorta the Wallmart of computers). But something caught my eye. I go in and am quite impressed. They have good headphones, a good selection of cases and power supplies and in general a step up from normal. I am wandering around in a happy daze when I hear angles singing over my left shoulder. I look up and what do I see:

A whole row of Mechanical Keyboards. There are 3 (THREE!) filco's sitting side by side. I could click a black, brown and blue at the same time AT THE SAME TIME! Steelseries, sidwinder x4 and x6, and others. The Irocks was not even worthy to sit there and was on a whole other shelf. They seem to be about the same price as PCHome and Army group too, so bonus. Now I got to convince the wife.

I can ship you one if you want. They had English only or with Chinese, but I did not see any 10key less ones. They can order though if you are desperate. My usual deal is cost+1 Dr. Pepper. This is not a great deal but they are there. I do this so they start seeing me as a valued customer and making with the better deals. Like the all pink Filco they told me about.


Name and address of the store?


----------



## nmatavka

Recently, I got the chance to try out the Razer Black Widow, which I am typing this on. It seems as if Razer made all the wrong choices designing a gaming keyboard, and in the process made all the right choices designing a typing keyboard.

First, the key switches: a nice alternative to one of my other keyboards, the classic IBM M. As you know, the key switches are Cherry Blues---much lighter than the heavy-duty M keysprings, but quite noisy, just like the M. I don't mind the noise---as long as I don't have to type on rubber I'm all right. Very pleasant for typing. I prefer my Maltron (black switches) for gaming.

Second, the N-key rollover: this is a feature for RTS/MMORPG nerds and very fast typists. My use of this keyboard, then, was restricted to business, and I found it perfectly suited to such a task. Playing games on it was par for the course, neither under nor over.

Third, the build quality: I found both the Maltron and the M far sturdier; the Razer is more suited to mass market, as it is built with current aesthetic trends in mind (backlighting!) and by a company with far more market clout. The M is enjoyed by large corporations specialising in data-entry (banks!) and by certain aging geeks, while the Maltron is generally to be found in the homes and offices of the disabled (Maltron keyboards are built almost specifically for arthritics, amputees, and the blind, with a price tag to match!). In contrast, the BlackWidow is "a keyboard for the rest of us." It certainly carries Nick's seal of approval, although you may find that your 20-year-old Model M outlives your Razer.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nmatavka*


Recently, I got the chance to try out the Razer Black Widow, which I am typing this on. It seems as if Razer made all the wrong choices designing a gaming keyboard, and in the process made all the right choices designing a typing keyboard.


I'm actually not surprised. But we have been speculating this ever since we first found out about the Black Widows.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nmatavka*


First, the key switches: a nice alternative to one of my other keyboards, the classic IBM M. As you know, the key switches are Cherry Blues---much lighter than the heavy-duty M keysprings, but quite noisy, just like the M. I don't mind the noise---as long as I don't have to type on rubber I'm all right. Very pleasant for typing. I prefer my Maltron (black switches) for gaming.

Second, the N-key rollover: this is a feature for RTS/MMORPG nerds and very fast typists. My use of this keyboard, then, was restricted to business, and I found it perfectly suited to such a task. Playing games on it was par for the course, neither under nor over.


But the Black Widows don't have full NKRO.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nmatavka*


Third, the build quality: I found both the Maltron and the M far sturdier; the Razer is more suited to mass market, as it is built with current aesthetic trends in mind (backlighting!) and by a company with far more market clout. The M is enjoyed by large corporations specialising in data-entry (banks!) and by certain aging geeks, while the Maltron is generally to be found in the homes and offices of the disabled (Maltron keyboards are built almost specifically for arthritics, amputees, and the blind, with a price tag to match!). In contrast, the BlackWidow is "a keyboard for the rest of us." It certainly carries Nick's seal of approval, although you may find that your 20-year-old Model M outlives your Razer.


I'm not surprised about this either because the OEM is iOne. Plus, this is Razer we're talking about.


----------



## technodanvan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But the Black Widows don't have full NKRO.


I have seen this a number of places as I am looking to get a new keyboard. As I currently own a Razer Black Mamba - and because Razer has never done me wrong - I have been looking with a keen eye at the Black Widow.

The NKRO argument seems to be a very popular one among mechanical keyboard enthusiasts but I can't help but wonder why. Many, if not most, normal rubber dome 'gaming' keyboards don't have it and few gamers complain. The vast, vast majority of games (and gamers) don't need full (or even 6 key) NKRO.

So why does it matter? Really, the only reason I'm coming up with is for the price of the BW Ultimate other keyboards do have it. Is it a nice feature? Sure. Is it necessary for all but 0.1% of typists/gamers? Debatable, I suppose.

In my case I'm forced to use a USB port so the feature is fairly irrelevant.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *technodanvan*


I have seen this a number of places as I am looking to get a new keyboard. As I currently own a Razer Black Mamba - and because Razer has never done me wrong - I have been looking with a keen eye at the Black Widow.

The NKRO argument seems to be a very popular one among mechanical keyboard enthusiasts but I can't help but wonder why. Many, if not most, normal rubber dome 'gaming' keyboards don't have it and few gamers complain. The vast, vast majority of games (and gamers) don't need full (or even 6 key) NKRO.

So why does it matter? Really, the only reason I'm coming up with is for the price of the BW Ultimate other keyboards do have it. Is it a nice feature? Sure. Is it necessary for all but 0.1% of typists/gamers? Debatable, I suppose.

In my case I'm forced to use a USB port so the feature is fairly irrelevant.


For me, it's peace of mind. But what does the Black Widow Ultimate offer that you like?


----------



## Ikrin

I still see nothing significantly more useful on the Black Widow Ultimate that would make it better than a Xarmor U9BL with full NKRO, which is on sale right now..


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *technodanvan*


I have seen this a number of places as I am looking to get a new keyboard. As I currently own a Razer Black Mamba - and because Razer has never done me wrong - I have been looking with a keen eye at the Black Widow.

The NKRO argument seems to be a very popular one among mechanical keyboard enthusiasts but I can't help but wonder why. Many, if not most, normal rubber dome 'gaming' keyboards don't have it and few gamers complain. The vast, vast majority of games (and gamers) don't need full (or even 6 key) NKRO.

So why does it matter? Really, the only reason I'm coming up with is for the price of the BW Ultimate other keyboards do have it. Is it a nice feature? Sure. Is it necessary for all but 0.1% of typists/gamers? Debatable, I suppose.

In my case I'm forced to use a USB port so the feature is fairly irrelevant.


btw, they are not even 6KRO over tru USB.
2KRO only.
The price for BW Ultimate is good? I think Xarmor are better price/performance.
or Rosewill RK-9000 NKRO $75~80 when is on sale, which is still better choice to choose over the regular version of BW


----------



## ripster

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *technodanvan*   I have seen this a number of places as I am looking to get a new keyboard. As I currently own a Razer Black Mamba - and because Razer has never done me wrong - I have been looking with a keen eye at the Black Widow.

The NKRO argument seems to be a very popular one among mechanical keyboard enthusiasts but I can't help but wonder why. Many, if not most, normal rubber dome 'gaming' keyboards don't have it and few gamers complain. The vast, vast majority of games (and gamers) don't need full (or even 6 key) NKRO.

So why does it matter? Really, the only reason I'm coming up with is for the price of the BW Ultimate other keyboards do have it. Is it a nice feature? Sure. Is it necessary for all but 0.1% of typists/gamers? Debatable, I suppose.

In my case I'm forced to use a USB port so the feature is fairly irrelevant.  
6KRO over USB is pretty common with the high end mechanicals. But yah, the handful of PC only games that ship every year generally avoid bad key combos. ESDF and arrow key cluster players can easily get into trouble though.

And then there are those weird Asian music games.


----------



## technodanvan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


For me, it's peace of mind. But what does the Black Widow Ultimate offer that you like?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


I still see nothing significantly more useful on the Black Widow Ultimate that would make it better than a Xarmor U9BL with full NKRO, which is on sale right now..



Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


btw, they are not even 6KRO over tru USB.
2KRO only.
The price for BW Ultimate is good? I think Xarmor are better price/performance.
or Rosewill RK-9000 NKRO $75~80 when is on sale, which is still better choice to choose over the regular version of BW


I haven't yet made up my mind to stick with Razer, much less pay the premium for the Ultimate.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


6KRO over USB is pretty common with the high end mechanicals. But yah, the handful of PC only games that ship every year generally avoid bad key combos. ESDF and arrow key cluster players can easily get into trouble though.

And then there are those weird Asian music games.






That game...is something better than all games I have ever played.

But yeah, I do find it an interesting design choice for Razer. That said, 6KRO still isn't really a requirement for me. From what I've read at Geek Hack, the common gaming clusters are all unaffected which really is all that matters. It is a mental thing I suppose, to wonder what other odd design choices go into the development of the keyboard when you see this one made.

I don't think I will go with Razer for really one reason - I want a USB port on it as the USB ports on the back of my iMac are next to useless. I need at least one, though two would be nice. The Ultimate does have one but I don't need the lights, nor the extra price.

I had the DAS previously. I had ordered the Professional S Silent (which was supposed to have come with Browns) but was apparently sent a normal Professional S with Blues. I found this out after I sold it to someone on the forum here who popped a key off after briefly using it. In any case, I had made some remarks in this thread about how it wasn't ideal for gaming purely based on feel of the keys, though many people disagreed with me.

I find it interesting that the Razer uses the Blues as well, and how some have been critical about it's lack of using linear Blacks.

That all said - I did grow to enjoy the feel of the Blues for typing, which is mostly what I do anyway. I don't type fast or anything, but it was pretty fantastic for that.

Of course now I'm kicking myself for selling the Das, as I had originally planned on going desktop-less...then later decided I wanted a desktop, but one with the form factor of the iMac. And it turns out I don't much care for typing on the GODDAMN BLUETOOTH CHICLET POS that it came with. Seriously, 'delete' is NOT the same thing as 'backspace'.

*sigh*

The lack of cords is nice though. And I still have the Mamba, which didn't sell so I'll hold onto (though the magic mouse really is pretty okay, just very small). I have Win7 OEM and an SSD on the way so I get to 'technodanify' the iMac into a man computer next week.

But back to the keyboard. I mainly focused on the Razer because it would likely have a similar look to my Mamba. But I'm exploring other options as well. I think buying another Das or maybe a Filco (if they'd ever be available, and if I could confirm/deny the existence of a USB port on them).

I like the Filco because of the red 'escape' key and the blue w,a,s,d keys. Pure aesthetics on that one I guess, but I have no idea how well it'd match the Mamba. I already know the Das looks great with it, the blue lights all match perfectly.

Anywho, that turned into something way longer than I intended. And because of this GODDAMN BLUETOOTH CHICLET POS my wrists and fingers now hurt.

It's what I deserve.


----------



## TwoCables

Well, all I can say after that is that none of the Filco Majestouch boards have USB ports. I think all of the attention went into designing a pretty good mechanical keyboard.

But I do need to say that I have a Filco Majestouch, and I needed a USB port too. Now, I have a sliding keyboard tray, so I ended up attaching a USB extension cable to the underneath side of this desk's desktop in a strategic location so that I can plug my mouse into it and still get the feeling of wireless. So this means that I have a 6-foot USB extension cable plugged into my rig just for my mouse.







I mean, I can't put my rig in a convenient location.

But since Elite Keyboards seems to be having a major backorder, it would be significantly better to get a Das.


----------



## technodanvan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Well, all I can say after that is that none of the Filco Majestouch boards have USB ports. I think all of the attention went into designing a pretty good mechanical keyboard.

But I do need to say that I have a Filco Majestouch, and I needed a USB port too. Now, I have a sliding keyboard tray, so I ended up attaching a USB extension cable to the underneath side of this desk's desktop in a strategic location so that I can plug my mouse into it and still get the feeling of wireless. So this means that I have a 6-foot USB extension cable plugged into my rig just for my mouse.







I mean, I can't put my rig in a convenient location.

But since Elite Keyboards seems to be having a major backorder, it would be significantly better to get a Das.


I'm kind of leaning toward the Das as well. The USB extension is a good idea...except I just bought a glass desk.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


I picked that YouTube clip based solely on it's musical merits, not because you could have pwnd it.


You have fantastic taste in music.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *technodanvan*


I'm kind of leaning toward the Das as well. The USB extension is a good idea...except I just bought a glass desk.

You have fantastic taste in music.










Duct tape.







hehe

But yeah, the Das will be a VERY nice addiction to a setup on a glass desk.


----------



## Ikrin

I think your needs lean more towards the Xarmor, which is of a similar price, and offers 2 usb ports, as well as headphone and mic jacks. If you don't care for the backlighting, then you can just turn it off.


----------



## technodanvan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Duct tape.







hehe

But yeah, the Das will be a VERY nice addiction to a setup on a glass desk.










You're talking me into it.

That said, should there be any reason to try out the browns this time around? I was pretty okay with the blues for typing, and for my style of gaming they really don't matter that much...but nows the time, I guess.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Well, last time I posted this and I found some OCN members don't appreciate SpeedyCake style Swedish Music.


I did like that for a while, but once everyone started putting their own GIFs over that music it kinda got old.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *technodanvan*


You're talking me into it.

That said, should there be any reason to try out the browns this time around? I was pretty okay with the blues for typing, and for my style of gaming they really don't matter that much...but nows the time, I guess.


Oh damn, I dunno. But it's certainly a very personal thing.


----------



## technodanvan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


I think your needs lean more towards the Xarmor, which is of a similar price, and offers 2 usb ports, as well as headphone and mic jacks. If you don't care for the backlighting, then you can just turn it off.



Sorry, didn't even see this as I was posting. The headphone and mic jacks are something of an unknown to me...in that I'm not certain what I'll be doing for audio. The speakers on the iMac are certainly not sufficient for daily use, but I don't want to add speakers because I'd be adding wires, amps, etc, etc which wouldn't look all that great.

I may end up turning to headphones, but if I do I'll probably stick with a dedicated set with an amp, which would sort of negate the need for a headphone jack in the board. A mic is already built into the Mac, so assuming I can get that working with Win7 I don't anticipate a need for another one.

So I think it comes down to aesthetics more than anything else.


----------



## technodanvan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Oh damn, I dunno. But it's certainly a very personal thing.










They'd probably send me the blues despite ordering the browns again anyway!


----------



## technodanvan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But adding speakers doesn't mean you'd absolutely have to have an amp. I have speakers that I'm very happy with, and all I have are three pieces: the subwoofer and the two satellites.










A fair point. I guess I was going under the assumption that I would make the speakers, since I do things like that.

That said, buying a set isn't completely out of the question.

I would almost certainly nix the sub as it's just unnecessary, plus I've never heard a good set of 2.1 computer speakers. But there are a couple decent 2.0 sets out there...for a price.

Something I'll think about after Christmas...to see if someone bought me the little tube amp I asked for.


----------



## Ikrin

Well, my main point was that there would be 2 usb 2.0 ports for use. The headphone and mic jacks are just there for convenience if you ever needed them. I don't know that many boards with usb ports.


----------



## technodanvan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


Well, my main point was that there would be 2 usb 2.0 ports for use. The headphone and mic jacks are just there for convenience if you ever needed them. I don't know that many boards with usb ports.


No problem, I appreciate your input! The Das has two ports as well, though I'm not sure whether they are 2.0 or not.

Anyone else want a Das? 20% if I buy two...


----------



## W4LNUT5

Still love my deck.

I had heard it said the clears would be sloppy, but I have yet to notice that.

Oh, and did anyone see Manyak's monstrous F/S thread? He's selling a few mech keyboards in there.
http://www.overclock.net/full-system...-mice-you.html


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


Still love my deck.

I had heard it said the clears would be sloppy, but I have yet to notice that.

Oh, and did anyone see Manyak's monstrous F/S thread? He's selling a few mech keyboards in there.
http://www.overclock.net/full-system...-mice-you.html


I have. He's got quite a collection but I'm going to stick with my Das for the time being. Have a lot of other already incoming and don't see the point in spending more money on keyboards


----------



## technodanvan

I can't believe anyone would get into keyboards so much that they would collect them as much as he did.

I guess I have to have my aesthetics.


----------



## nmatavka

Quote:



Originally Posted by *technodanvan*


I can't believe anyone would get into keyboards so much that they would collect them as much as he did.

I guess I have to have my aesthetics.


Aestrhetics? Buy Razer or Deck... nicest keyboards.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nmatavka*


Aestrhetics? Buy Razer or Deck... nicest keyboards.


Meh to each their own.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nmatavka*


Aestrhetics? Buy Razer or Deck... nicest keyboards.


I can't say a Deck has a lot of aesthetics value; just because of how bulky it is, and the key caps themselves having such a large and rather bold font to them.

I'm not saying it's a bad keyboard by any means. I







my Deck.

Though; I think other boards have a better looks to them. As I'm more of a fan of the utilitarian design. Fitting Form & Design into one package that does what it needs without being overly flashy.


----------



## webwit

Now you're talking!


----------



## ripster

Lol. The only Forum thread I know of where if you post about the original post you are offtopic and if you don't post about the OP you are offtopic. My DIY speakers are in the DIY audio thread of OCN if anyone wants to see them.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


Now you're talking!











woo.. interesting.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *technodanvan*


I can't believe anyone would get into keyboards so much that they would collect them as much as he did.

I guess I have to have my aesthetics.


What keyboard do you have?

Now that I know what a good mechanical keyboard is like, I can finally say this: if I had the money and the storage space where I live, then I would probably have over 20 mechanical keyboards by now, and I've only been into mechanical keyboards for 9 months.

So, it's one of those things where it's like this: once you know, you understand. Now that I understand, I want a ton of different mechanical keyboards so that I can use a different one like every week just for fun.


----------



## waar

damn it, elitekeyboard just sold out of the blue switch tenkeyless majestouch







was going to buy it this monday too


----------



## Razultull

i want mech keyboard qq


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Razultull*


i want mech keyboard qq


Manyak has a few for sale that are cheap. Check the For Sale section or the link posted earlier in this thread (only a page back on standard post per page layout.)


----------



## technodanvan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
What keyboard do you have?

Now that I know what a good mechanical keyboard is like, I can finally say this: if I had the money and the storage space where I live, then I would probably have over 20 mechanical keyboards by now, and I've only been into mechanical keyboards for 9 months.

So, it's one of those things where it's like this: once you know, you understand. Now that I understand, I want a ton of different mechanical keyboards so that I can use a different one like every week just for fun.

I had a Das before, then sold it, and now I'm buying another one. I do prefer typing on it over others, but it's really not THAT big of an issue.

I don't like typing on mechanical keyboards so much that I'd like to have more than one floating around just to try them out either. That's just weird dude.


----------



## aislepathlight

I've got a Realfoce 86u Tenkeyless, that I'm falling more and more in love with the more I have it (Probably 2 months now). The way the keys are shaped and sloped just feels so good when I type. Not to mention how fantastic the action of the keys are and the soothing clicky sounds.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *technodanvan* 
I had a Das before, then sold it, and now I'm buying another one. I do prefer typing on it over others, but it's really not THAT big of an issue.

I don't like typing on mechanical keyboards so much that I'd like to have more than one floating around just to try them out either. That's just weird dude.

But how much time do you spend at your computer every day? I don't like admitting this, but it's the truth so here it is: I spend about 18 hours or more at my computer every single day. So, this means that I can fully and truly appreciate a good mechanical keyboard. But for somebody who spends maybe 1-3 hours at their computer every day, then yeah it's not going to be a big deal. Most people like that would just say _"Yeah, it's a nice keyboard, but so what?"_.

So no, it's not weird: it's just that I fully appreciate the superiority to such an extreme that I can't help but be extremely enthusiastic about mechanical keyboards. It has enabled me to fully understand why there's an entire message board dedicated to mechanical keyboard enthusiasts called Geek Hack. But if I only spent just a few hours at my computer every day, then I would have just run over to Best Buy and picked up a basic rubber dome keyboard and called it good.


----------



## technodanvan

I don't think 18 hours would be unheard of on my end - but most of that is at work.

I can't replace my work keyboard.

But I have to say - you even admitted that you could see 'taking it to an extreme' suggesting it isn't exactly a normal thing. I understand liking something that makes your life easier and/or better. But it's still weird to go a few steps further than liking it.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *technodanvan* 
I don't think 18 hours would be unheard of on my end - but most of that is at work.

I can't replace my work keyboard.

It's amazing what the IT department will overlook if you slip them a twenty and buy them a beer every now and then.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *technodanvan*


I don't think 18 hours would be unheard of on my end - but most of that is at work.

I can't replace my work keyboard.

But I have to say - you even admitted that you could see 'taking it to an extreme' suggesting it isn't exactly a normal thing. I understand liking something that makes your life easier and/or better. But it's still weird to go a few steps further than liking it.










I said that I think that I appreciate mechanical keyboards to an extreme level. What I mean is that I am willing to bet that in most people's opinion, my enthusiasm for mechanical keyboards is extreme. However, I've discovered one thing these past 9 months: there are thousands upon thousands of people who share the same "extreme" enthusiasm for mechanical keyboards as I do. Many of those people regularly post in this thread, and many of them post over at Geek Hack. But as for the rest? I don't know where they are, but I know they exist because after all: there are almost 7 billion people on this planet.

So when compared to the average Joe, yeah it is weird. But when compared to other mechanical keyboard enthusiasts, it's perfectly normal. In fact, I need to step it up a bit if I want to become a true enthusiast. So if you think I'm weird, then you have another thing coming.


----------



## ripster

I find people who overclock pcs solely for bragging rights kinda weird myself.


----------



## Turbonerd

Gah, i am such a newb sometimes. 
Been using my steelseries 6gv2 for 2 months now without the ps2 connector because i connected it while the pc was on and it didn't work. I thought it was something wrong with the mobo and forgot about the whole matter. Today it struck me that ps2 is not plug and play








Shut down,connect ps2 and voila.

So if you anyone has the same problem(i doubt that) follow what i said.


----------



## ripster

USB mo bettah for that sort of thing. Some keyboard guides disagree with me.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


USB mo bettah for that sort of thing. Some keyboard guides disagree with me.


If you have a ps\\2 adapter and don't have multiple keyboards, there is really no reason at all to use USB.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


If you have a ps\\2 adapter and don't have multiple keyboards, there is really no reason at all to use USB.


Even if you have multiple keyboards, you *can* plug-n-play them with PS/2 as long as a keyboard was plugged in when you first booted your PC.


----------



## runeazn

hmm don;t you dammage your mobo when plugging in the ps/2 when alrdy on??

Off topic : buuuaaaeeeeh i still have the ammonia smell in my nose







we made Salty liquorice hehe, but damm it stinks cat pee >=(


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *runeazn*


hmm don;t you dammage your mobo when plugging in the ps/2 when alrdy on??

Off topic : buuuaaaeeeeh i still have the ammonia smell in my nose







we made Salty liquorice hehe, but damm it stinks cat pee >=(


You will only hurt your motherboard by plugging in one of those old keyboards that looks like it's ps/2 but isn't.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *runeazn*


hmm don;t you dammage your mobo when plugging in the ps/2 when alrdy on??


no it wont.
you have to reboot your pc in order to let it detect and install the driver for it tho.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


no it wont.
you have to reboot your pc in order to let it detect and install the driver for it tho.


All PS/2 keyboards use the same driver.


----------



## Manyak

Oh by the way, check out what I just got a review sample of


















And it's switches _do_ feel different than my Filco's. And not just, "oh they are different keycaps" different, but like, really different. Almost like White Alps.


----------



## ripster

It happens. But you don't hear about it much anymore because everyone has moved on to USB.


----------



## runeazn

oh well,
nice review sample.


----------



## ripster

Speaking of USB only keyboards.....

Too bad the Razer's gold USB connectors and 1000hz polling is just marketing fluff.


----------



## runeazn

yeh :/


----------



## webwit

You send razor a message "Can I have a review sample", and say you run geekhack.


----------



## runeazn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


You send razor a message "Can I have a review sample", and say you run geekhack.


you did that??
naughty boy aren't you XD?


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Speaking of USB only keyboards.....

Too bad the Razer's gold USB connectors and 1000hz polling is just marketing fluff.


I'm going to see if I can put that to the test now that I actually have one of these boards. The 1000Hz polling part, that is.

I'm also going to take it apart to see what they did to these switches. Because I'm telling you right now, they don't feel the same as regular Cherry Blues.


----------



## runeazn

well,
I hope the pollin test will be sucessfull.


----------



## deltz

Hey guys, how much would you pay for a IBM Model M keyboard? Would you recommend I get one of these or go with a Razer Black window instead. Hard finding good mechanical keyboard in the UK!


----------



## runeazn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deltz*


Hey guys, how much would you pay for a IBM Model M keyboard? Would you recommend I get one of these or go with a Razer Black window instead. Hard finding good mechanical keyboard in the UK!


IBM model M is a bucklin spring
and a Razer blackwidow is a Cherry MX blue

it's just what you prefer,

the IBM will be around 20 pounds shipped.


----------



## deltz

Thanks for the reply but I havent tried both, at the moment im on the Dell SmartCard Keyboard and I kinda like the firm clicky feeling, would you know which might suit me?

http://pcsclite.alioth.debian.org/cc...l_keyboard.png


----------



## runeazn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *deltz*


Thanks for the reply but I havent tried both, at the moment im on the Dell SmartCard Keyboard and I kinda like the firm clicky feeling, would you know which might suit me?

http://pcsclite.alioth.debian.org/cc...l_keyboard.png


Rubber dome is just not the same as the mechanical but i opt for the blue cherry


----------



## deltz

I dont really want to spend over 50-60 for a keyboard, any which is avaiable from the UK which you can recommend?


----------



## runeazn

nothing :/
just get yourself a 2nd hand IBM model M









or if your are lucky you can get for that price a 2nd hand cherry board with MX blue switches


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deltz* 
I dont really want to spend over 50-60 for a keyboard, any which is avaiable from the UK which you can recommend?









http://www.keyboardco.com/


----------



## runeazn

i know that site and would've given it to him if there were suitable keyboards for his price range which isn't


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
I'm going to see if I can put that to the test now that I actually have one of these boards. The 1000Hz polling part, that is.

I'm also going to take it apart to see what they did to these switches. Because I'm telling you right now, they don't feel the same as regular Cherry Blues.

Let us know what you find out there. And tell Jason that NEXT time he does a presentation don't use the picture of the NMB Space Invaders from the OP! That switch has been obsolete for AGES.

THAT was hilarious. Makes it look like Razer are noobs to the mechanical keyboard business.

From the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide









From the Razer Marketing Intro









Oh. They ARE noobs to the mechanical keyboard business or they would have added diodes to a $130 Gaming Keyboard. Mention that too. In a $80 non backlit keyboard it's kinda excusable but in a $130 keyboard it's not.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Oh. They ARE noobs to the mechanical keyboard business or they would have added diodes to a $130 Gaming Keyboard. Mention that too. *In a $80 non backlit keyboard it's kinda excusable* but in a $130 keyboard it's not.

Not when XArmor's willing to pay the $1.50 in their $80 model. Oh, and you're welcome for that.


----------



## webwit

I might have bought it if it did had black Space Invaders. Those are among the best switches on this planet. And it is Scarry Garcia's favorite. How's that for an endorsement?


----------



## thisispatrick

*scratches head*
Where's my review unit...


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *webwit* 
I might have bought it if it did had black Space Invaders. Those are among the best switches on this planet. And it is Scarry Garcia's favorite. How's that for an endorsement?

Nah, SMK montereys are the best. Every time I type on them I feel like I have to try to keep up with the switches because they work faster than I can type. It makes no sense written out like that but I think you get the idea







.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129* 
Not when XArmor's willing to pay the $1.50 in their $80 model. Oh, and you're welcome for that.

I wouldn't tell OCN'rs to wait tooooooooo long. Here is the Scorpius M10 BL thread from July 2009 and that never appeared.

You're welcome.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
I wouldn't tell OCN'rs to wait tooooooooo long. Here is the Scorpius M10 BL thread from July 2009 and that never appeared.

You're welcome.

XArmor is looking to be big in the US though; I doubt they'll announce products for the US and not roll them out.

I can't speak for the lifetime and such; but that's my 2cents.


----------



## ramenbuoy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *webwit* 
You are confusing personal preference with quality. It's like advising on a forum that apples are worse than oranges, because you don't like apples. This is a great switch if you type with force but don't want to bottom out.

unfortunately that is what goes on in OCN. people here must really hate apples. anyways, I have been using my friends filco otaku mx blue and it's grown on me, however I just returned my lycosa and pc350s for 319 dollars apparently. I think I might try and get the razer because of my credit there. but its not in stock or something









edit: who has an xarmor? thoughts?
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramenbuoy* 
edit: who has an xarmor? thoughts?

I've tried other iOne products; just not the XArmor stuff and it was pretty good overall.

Hardware Aware has an excellent review of the U9BL


----------



## ripster

iOne used to know as much about soldering as my mom but I think Xarmor (a division of iOne) uses a different PC fabricator.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
iOne used to know as much about soldering as my mom but I think Xarmor (a division of iOne) uses a different PC fabricator.









Is that a piece of bare wire soldered on at the last minute, with masking tape underneath it?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

XArmor does in fact use a different factory for SMD work:


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deltz* 
Thanks for the reply but I havent tried both, at the moment im on the Dell SmartCard Keyboard and I kinda like the firm clicky feeling, would you know which might suit me?

http://pcsclite.alioth.debian.org/cc...l_keyboard.png

If you like a firm feeling with a tactile response in addition to a click, then the IBM Model M might be for you because it's a tactile and clicky keyboard due to the Buckling Springs, and it requires more force to press the keys than the Cherry MX Blues. I mean, I wouldn't call the Blues "firm" at all. But in comparison to the keyboard you have now, a good keyboard with the Cherry MX Blues would be heaven - even if the Buckling Springs would be your preference.


----------



## v193r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
I wouldn't tell OCN'rs to wait tooooooooo long. Here is the Scorpius M10 BL thread from July 2009 and that never appeared.

You're welcome.

LOL. Im glad i didnt get that id prefer a black widow over that. and a hhkb over all.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


LOL. Im glad i didnt get that id prefer a black widow over that. and a hhkb over all.


You've also got to remember though - in July 2009 there was a choice of maybe 5 different keyboards. I don't think elitekeyboards was even open yet - the only place to get a Filco or Topre in the US was through some dude on ebay.


----------



## runeazn

hmmm manyak is prtty active today in the mech guide yay









but how is the review sample doing







?


----------



## ripster

Now that Manyak is back can I bring up that USB versus PS/2 thing in the OP?


----------



## Maytan

Hey dere guise, any other retailers that carry Filco's? I plan on purchasing a tenkeyless soon but EK is all out of stock.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Only EliteKeyboards to my knowledge. Unless you want to go through TaoBao.


----------



## runeazn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Hey dere guise, any other retailers that carry Filco's? I plan on purchasing a tenkeyless soon but EK is all out of stock.


so who's guise?


----------



## ripster

If you go International there are LOTs of Filco sellers.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


Only EliteKeyboards to my knowledge. Unless you want to go through TaoBao.


Hmm, I might actually look around that website. Google translate should be able to help me out enough to navigate things.

Not saying I'm going to be buying from there, but it could be a fun experience.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *runeazn*


so who's guise?


Just some dumb internet slang for 'guys'.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


If you go International there are LOTs of Filco sellers.


Hmm.. I might give it a shot, if the shipping charges on said websites aren't gargantuan.


----------



## ripster

$20 WW shipping special at PChome.tw right now.

Grab somebody who reads Chinese first.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Now that Manyak is back can I bring up that USB versus PS/2 thing in the OP?

Just PM him, it's tiring seeing reports filed for this thread. Not that I can do anything about them at this point...


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
$20 WW shipping special at PChome.tw right now.

Grab somebody who reads Chinese first.

Woah, if that site's conversions are right it's cheaper (even after shipping) than a tenkeyless from EK BEFORE shipping. Nice.

I don't know if I can navigate this place though... I know a person who can speak a little bit of Japanese, wonder if he'd be any help.

EDIT: AHAHAHA.

Quote:

此商品已經售完

Quote:

Chinese to English translation
This product has been sold out


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Hey dere guise, any other retailers that carry Filco's? I plan on purchasing a tenkeyless soon but EK is all out of stock.

I believe Kip's already stated he can get filco's. All you need to do is send him the money plus some Dr.Pepper









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
So today I have my 1 year old daughter to look after by myself. After a McDonald's I went to the local computer department store. It was vaguely disappointing. 20 or 30 small stores all selling the same %95 of stuff with one or 2 items unique in each store. And no one speaks English!

On the way home I see a store I have passed many times and dismissed as just a 3C (sorta the Wallmart of computers). But something caught my eye. I go in and am quite impressed. They have good headphones, a good selection of cases and power supplies and in general a step up from normal. I am wandering around in a happy daze when I hear angles singing over my left shoulder. I look up and what do I see:

A whole row of Mechanical Keyboards. There are 3 (THREE!) filco's sitting side by side. I could click a black, brown and blue at the same time AT THE SAME TIME! Steelseries, sidwinder x4 and x6, and others. The Irocks was not even worthy to sit there and was on a whole other shelf. They seem to be about the same price as PCHome and Army group too, so bonus. Now I got to convince the wife.

*I can ship you one if you want. They had English only or with Chinese, but I did not see any 10key less ones. They can order though if you are desperate. My usual deal is cost+1 Dr. Pepper. This is not a great deal but they are there. I do this so they start seeing me as a valued customer and making with the better deals. Like the all pink Filco they told me about.*


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
I believe Kip's already stated he can get filco's. All you need to do is send him the money plus some Dr.Pepper









Correction: money to buy a Dr. Pepper there. USA has the worst Soda pop, nobody would want our corn syrup Dr. Pepper.


----------



## ripster

Kip - if you read this what was the name of that store?

And this Sugar Cane version is the one to ask for. Limited release but findable. Dublin Dr. Pepper.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Now that Manyak is back can I bring up that USB versus PS/2 thing in the OP?

I've had enough. Just send him a private message. I'm absolutely sick and tired of your constant trolling and thread-crapping, and this isn't even my thread!









http://www.overclock.net/private.php?do=newpm&u=58914

Think about it! What good does it do to keep crapping in Manyak's thread when he is the only person who can address your daily negative (and extremely irritating) comments? *Just send him a private message already!!* Good grief!

Or wait: do you require the attention?!?! It sure _looks_ like it! I mean all you're doing at this point is trolling over and over and it has become extremely irritating. You've become similar to a little child who just won't shut up. Manyak is the only person who can do anything about the things you keep talking about, but yet you keep posting it in here instead of just sending him a private message. So that tells me that all you want is attention! So congratulations: I'm giving you a ton of it right now!

Y'know, I used to think of you as a great guy who is very helpful. But now you've become an irritating troll who can't let go of the past (yeah, I know _exactly_ why you keep trolling this thread). I used to be very grateful to have you around, but now I just wish they would permanently ban you. You're like an irritating fruit fly that keeps flying around while I'm trying to enjoy my meal.

Why do you keep coming here? Does OCN make you feel awesome because you think we are all inferior to you or what? You don't fool me for a second.


----------



## ripster

It's kinda sweet but not THAT bad.


----------



## KipH

We all know ripster was beaten with PS/2 cables as a child, so most tend to ignore him, and I cut slack for anyone who likes Lego and knows of Dublin Dr. Pepper (I so do want some of that good stuff) but..

Rip, I don't think the guide says what you think it does. Let me quote it for you:
"So if your keyboard supports both PS/2 and USB, and your PC has a PS/2 port, there's no reason not to use it."

This is not saying "get PS/2 Now!" its more "PS/2 is not to be shunned and used if you got it." The difference is subtle but very real. The way I read it is that neither is bad so use the one you got.

And about PChome here in Taiwan. They are a very cool company to work with here. Good support and superb shipping, 30day $ back no questions added to every order. But this international thing is new to them so expect some hiccups. Good place to shop if your Google English to English skills are working.

PS. Tea colour switch = brown.


----------



## Ikrin

So would it cost more to have you ship one over or to get one from them?


----------



## fssbzz

you can ship total not more then 10KG for only $20.
10KG is around 4~5 fullsize keyboard.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5* 
I believe Kip's already stated he can get filco's. All you need to do is send him the money plus some Dr.Pepper










Oh, thanks for pointing that out!

Might take you up on that one, Kip. That is, if you're sure you could get a tenkeyless ordered.

Since my volume control is now on my DAC, I really have no use for my numpad. (I was using it to map volume controls) As such, I'd like to free up the space and try out a new manufacturer.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
It's kinda sweet but not THAT bad.

Oh please. You know what I'm talking about.


----------



## KipH

The PC home deal right now is better, if they have the one you want. The store I found that had filco did not have the 10key less in stock and were not sure how long to order. They did have several in stock of the regular size, and all 3 switch types side by side. I got to type on a blue, brown and black at the same time!


----------



## Maytan

Aye, too bad PC Home is out of stock. :/


----------



## KipH

I'll go ask them them. How many people would want one if available?


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
Aye, too bad PC Home is out of stock. :/

what u looking for?
http://global.pchome.com.tw/?mod=ite...59&c=A15&tm=u#
chinese version, but will work fine. + come with free keycap


----------



## bleedingRoue

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
what u looking for?
http://global.pchome.com.tw/?mod=ite...59&c=A15&tm=u#
chinese version, but will work fine. + come with free keycap









What switch type is that? Blues?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bleedingRoue* 
What switch type is that? Blues?

It's actually the Browns (a Tactile Touch). But the only ways I knew that were the blue LEDs and the model number.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runeazn* 
hmmm manyak is prtty active today in the mech guide yay









but how is the review sample doing







?

The review sample is doing good, I've cleared out my thursday schedule for taking this thing apart









Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Now that Manyak is back can I bring up that USB versus PS/2 thing in the OP?

PS/2 is x86 native, USB is a hack!


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
I'll go ask them them. How many people would want one if available?

Alright, thanks.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
what u looking for?
http://global.pchome.com.tw/?mod=ite...59&c=A15&tm=u#
chinese version, but will work fine. + come with free keycap









Looking for a Tactile Touch (Browns/Tea) Tenkeyless.

Appreciate the link, that might just work. Of course, I'm going to wait to see Kip's results; as well as if EK gets a magical shipment of keyboards suddenly.


----------



## KipH

It says: 1, the use of tea-axis CHERRY MX
Tea-axis = brown. I think that has been mentioned. Although they call tea red when drinking it









PC home will probably be cheaper. That $20 to USA is a good deal. And you will get the extra keys and puller and stuff. I don't think my store has all that. I am the back up this one


----------



## thisispatrick

http://www.inpad.com.tw/goods.php?act=view&no=253
?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
http://www.inpad.com.tw/goods.php?act=view&no=253
?

Tactile Touch.









When the model number doesn't have "L" or "C" in it after that "M", then it's a Tactile Touch. "L" means "Linear Force", and "C" means "Tactile Click" (or actually, Linear and Click).

So the FKBN87M/EB means Tactile Touch (so, I guess they could have gone all the way and used FKBN87MT/EB). If it said FKBN87ML/EB, then that would signify a Linear Force. If it said FKBN87M*C*/EB, then that would signify the Tactile Click.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
It says: 1, the use of tea-axis CHERRY MX
Tea-axis = brown. I think that has been mentioned. Although they call tea red when drinking it









PC home will probably be cheaper. That $20 to USA is a good deal. And you will get the extra keys and puller and stuff. I don't think my store has all that. I am the back up this one









Alright, thanks for the help.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
http://www.inpad.com.tw/goods.php?act=view&no=253
?

It's in stock... BUT, what currency is that in?

EDIT: Apparently, It's Taiwan Dollar. (should've noticed the .tw <_<)

So, $104. I wonder what shipping costs. As long as it's $40 or less, it'll cost about the same as ordering from EK.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


The review sample is doing good, I've cleared out my thursday schedule for taking this thing apart









PS/2 is x86 native, USB is a hack!


Rofl.

Much more fun than doing by PMs!

Let us know what you find out. I couldn't tell WHAT that Jason dude was talking about.

Quote:



Hi all,

Iâ€™m Jason and Iâ€™m part of the Razer product team for the Razer BlackWidow.
.....

2. What key switch is used in the Razer BlackWidow? To dispel all confusion once and for all â€" we use the Cherry Blues â€" and in our design process, weâ€™ve got a pretty strict guideline on sorting of each switch, so itâ€™s not just the Cherry Blues but those with a certain characteristic/tolerance guideline. Soâ€¦theyâ€™re cherry-picked. I canâ€™t go into the tolerance/sorting guidelines but I can say that it provides for a different experience as opposed to a normal Cherry Blue switch keyboard.


----------



## losttsol

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Rofl.

Much more fun than doing by PMs!

Let us know what you find out. I couldn't tell WHAT that Jason dude was talking about.


So is Jason the one that tests each blue switch individually before it goes on one of the thousands of Razer keyboards? Must be a thankless job.

'click, click, click, "good"....click, click, CLACCCCKKKK (thrown into giant scrap pile)...click, click, click, "good"...click, click,.....",ad nauseum.


----------



## Maytan

Meh, that website didn't work. I was able to get all the way through the purchase process up until the drop down menus that have the payment/shipping options. They're all in Chinese and I can't copy/paste them into a translator.

In addition, I can't get to that page with Google Translate.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Meh, that website didn't work. I was able to get all the way through the purchase process up until the drop down menus that have the payment/shipping options. They're all in Chinese and I can't copy/paste them into a translator.

In addition, I can't get to that page with Google Translate.


If their HTML is simple enough, then you might be able to find those menu entries in the code! That should allow you to either see what they are, or to copy/paste them.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


If their HTML is simple enough, then you might be able to find those menu entries in the code! That should allow you to either see what they are, or to copy/paste them.


That's an interesting way to go about things. Maybe I'll give it a shot later.

Clever thinking, Mr. Cables.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


That's an interesting way to go about things. Maybe I'll give it a shot later.

Clever thinking, Mr. Cables.


hehe


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Rofl.

Much more fun than doing by PMs!

Let us know what you find out. I couldn't tell WHAT that Jason dude was talking about.


I will tell you one thing - it's nicer to type on than the Filco. I don't know if it's just the keycaps or if there really _is_ something special about the switches, so I'll be swapping keycaps onto it and taking a switch apart to compare (I doubt there's a visible difference but you never know). I just wish I had a Das to compare it to too.


----------



## ripster

Have to break them in a bit first. New Blue Cherrys tend to be a bit stiffer.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Have to break them in a bit first. New Blue Cherrys tend to be a bit stiffer.


But they're _not_ stiffer!


----------



## TwoCables

It sounds to me like they really _are_ cherry-picked. This makes me want to try a Black Widow now. Maybe I should buy a Black Widow, harvest its cherry-picked switches, and then call it a day.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


It sounds to me like they really _are_ cherry-picked. This makes me want to try a Black Widow now.


Don't get too excited yet, it could simply be the keycaps. Most of the differences I'm feeling (and hearing) can be attributed to the keycaps, so let me eliminate that possibility before jumping to any conclusions.


----------



## ripster

Well, that is interesting. Maybe they had enough clout to get Cherry Corp to do a special run of MX switches. RipOmeter time!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Don't get too excited yet, it could simply be the keycaps. Most of the differences I'm feeling (and hearing) can be attributed to the keycaps, so let me eliminate that possibility before jumping to any conclusions.


Actually, it wouldn't surprise me since the Filco keycaps are as thin as can be!


----------



## ripster

Not really, there are thinner.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Not really, there are thinner.


Heh. You know what I meant.


----------



## ripster

Not really. Das = Filco = Rosewill molds and plastic. Lettering technology and fonts vary.

Das is on top, Filco on bottom









And Signature is thinner.
Filco on Left, Signature on Right









Signature DoubleShots


----------



## TwoCables

I wasn't looking to go this far with it. All I was saying was that it wouldn't surprise me that Manyak is right about the keycaps since it has been said that the caps on the Majestouch aren't exactly the best.

I was just trying to say something simple.


----------



## Crazy9000

I like how you arranged the letters there Ripster, lol.


----------



## TwoCables

Oh! Was Up! Doh.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Oh! Was Up! Doh.


Was up OCN, even


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Was up OCN, even










Double doh.


----------



## Manyak

lol twocables...


----------



## ramenbuoy

okay EliteKeyboards.com is out of stock on like everything!??! Most of their keyboards arn't even listed. Anyone know where I can get one from!? Oh and Manyak just sold the keyboard that I wanted.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

They seem to be sold out due to unforseen demand from the sc2 scene right? The only place I think you can find a filco is geekhack forums or go rob manyak or ripster


----------



## thiru

Has anyone got proof that the SC2 scene caused this? kinda interesting..


----------



## fssbzz




----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*








That's not proof of sales at all.


----------



## fssbzz

he's fruitdealer. one of the top SCII player in the world from korea.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


he's fruitdealer. one of the top SCII player in the world from korea.


Yes I know who he is. I'm asking for something that shows that people are buying mech keyboards because of this guy, not a video of him playing on one.


----------



## fssbzz

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=157888
+
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t...ighlight=fruit


----------



## thiru

Correlation does not imply causation. And that's marketing. Remember Fat1l1ty?


----------



## ripster

Santa versus FruitDealer.

Zerg Rush!


----------



## espresso

Since PS/2 is recommended, at least because it doesn't require CPU polling, would stand to reason to also use a PS/2 mouse? (Or at least a USB to PS/2 converter.)


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *espresso* 
Since PS/2 is recommended, at least because it doesn't require CPU polling, would stand to reason to also use a PS/2 mouse? (Or at least a USB to PS/2 converter.)

Maybe. But nowadays all gaming mice have features that only work, I think, if you plug them through the USB.

Besides loads of motherboards have only 1 PS/2 slot now.


----------



## ripster

PS/2 being better is an Internet "myth". Not supported by OCN members.


----------



## ch_123

Oldschool IBM terminal keyboard interfaces were the best... a pin for every bit!


----------



## kga92

I'm having trouble deciding if I should buy a FILCO from keyboardco.com with Brown keys or a 6gv2 from finland, not sure if it's worth the price to buy a filco :/

I game some, but typing is equally important. Would blacks be good enough to comfortably type on?

edit: the filco would be about twice the price...


----------



## Tator Tot

6Gv2 would be a better option for you in my opinion if the Filco will be 2x the price.

Blacks are easy enough to type on, a little different than domes and just about as heavy. So the benefit of being lighter (and thus less effort/less tyring) won't be there.
Though they'll still feel better than normal domes to type on.


----------



## De-Zant

Kga92, as you read my 6gv2 review, you should know that the blacks require quite a bit of force to be as reliable to type on as the usual rubber dome.

If you are accustomed to typing on a G15 (IIRC that is what you had wasn't it?), you should not be concerned about typing on the blacks. As I recall, the G15 had stiff keys. So this keyboard shouldn't be a problem to you in any way.

The gaming on the MX blacks (especially noticeable in fast pased games) is pure bliss. (Slow gaming such as ME2 is not as great. It's great also, but the mechanicality just doesn't that affect that scenario so much).
The typing on MX blacks is better than the average dome. If you are a fast typer, somehow I think that this is gonna be better for you than the G15, but if you type slow (<45WPM), it's not gonna be any better for typing.

Also, Look at my posts. Well over a thousand of those are with my 6gv2. What is that? Umm, 200 pages? (most of my posts are about this long. However, I have made colossal posts such as my 6gv2 review) I don't type a lot. But anyways, this keyboard is not *bad* for typing. Just don't expect miracles.


----------



## kga92

I don't like the stiffness of the keys on my g15, I would prefer something a bit lighter to press. This is exactly what I am worried about with the g6v2. I could get the razer keyboard if it's good, I realize it would be a lot lighter but would it be too much?

I have used laptops alot in the past too, and I kinda like the lightness on the keys on my laptop.


----------



## runeazn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kga92* 
I don't like the stiffness of the keys on my g15, I would prefer something a bit lighter to press. This is exactly what I am worried about with the g6v2. I could get the razer keyboard if it's good, I realize it would be a lot lighter but would it be too much?

I have used laptops alot in the past too, and I kinda like the lightness on the keys on my laptop.

well this is the gaming schema
black>brown>blue

blue are bad for double tap, but excels at typing
brown are the mid/mid so they are average,don't require much force and does good at both, gaming and typing
blacks are too stiff for you







but they game the best


----------



## thisispatrick

Browns are one of the lightest switches.


----------



## EZjijy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Has anyone got proof that the SC2 scene caused this? kinda interesting..


TeamLiquid, probably the biggest SC2 community in the world noticed it and brought quite a bit of attention...


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EZjijy*


TeamLiquid, probably the biggest SC2 community in the world noticed it and brought quite a bit of attention...
http://i.imgur.com/cYTFj.jpg[/IMsdG]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Ahh that explains it... those threads are big [IMG alt=""]https://www.overclock.net/images/smilies/tongue.gif thanks!


----------



## waar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


I'll go ask them them. How many people would want one if available?


id be interested in some browns if the price wasn't too much. and wait wasn't too bad lol


----------



## ramenbuoy

http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=645

this keyboard would be baller if:
blank black keys
red escape key
keep the pink WASD
white backlight LED
Cherry MX Blues or Blacks.

I would soooooooo pay like 10293801239810239 dollars.


----------



## fssbzz

http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...s,cherrymxkeys

new stuff release. clack's product.


----------



## Maytan

Sort of neat.


----------



## Crazy9000

Only one I like is the bottom one, although the eyes just look black to me, from the pic at least.


----------



## ch_123

Eyes look red to me.

Those things are hand made by a guy on Geekhack.


----------



## bojinglebells

Quote:


Originally Posted by *espresso* 
Since PS/2 is recommended, at least because it doesn't require CPU polling, would stand to reason to also use a PS/2 mouse? (Or at least a USB to PS/2 converter.)

no, definitely not

IIRC PS/2 for mousing polls at a putrid 60Hz by default, although it can operate up to 200Hz, a far cry from the standard 500-1000Hz of today's gaming mice.

And like has been mentioned before, there are many features now standard in gaming mice that require USB's data throughput capabilities such as internal memory for storing profiles and upgradable firmware.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Eyes look red to me.

Those things are hand made by a guy on Geekhack.

is is really all hand made?


----------



## thisispatrick

Why hello there gentlemen.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 









Why hello there gentlemen.

another review sample?
where is your review site?
haven't seen your review yet.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
another review sample?
where is your review site?
haven't seen your review yet.









The site is right in my sig :x
Just got this right now. Will be doing a run through for a week before I post up a review.

edit: The keys in fact are a tad rubbery. Just a tad. Not as much as the XArmor.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
The site is right in my sig :x
Just got this right now. Will be doing a run through for a week before I post up a review.

very nice, i like the site~


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
very nice, i like the site~









I generally post in the PC or Gaming sections.









edit: THIS CABLE IS SO DAMN LONG.
double edit: My Das is going to go under the bed again for a week. :| I'll miss you cherry browns!
*triple edit: Thanks, we're being sponsored by Astro for this holiday season. Check often for your chance to win an Astro Wireless Mixamp/ASTAR earphones and more!*


----------



## KipH

Patrick, your truly living up to your avatar now.

What happened to that Ducky I found for your mom to buy


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
Patrick, your truly living up to your avatar now.

What happened to that Ducky I found for your mom to buy









Cousin over there picked one up for me already. Just waiting for my mom to go on her business trip and come home with it.

The backspace key is a tad stiff :\\ Must type more!!!

edit: I see Phaedrus has joined us








double edit: Razer paid $30 for rush shipping. Why thank you.


----------



## fssbzz

i personally think that most Ducky Brown switches are a lil more stiff then Das and Filco kb.
don't know why, wonder is just me, or because i swap up the key cap from the original one.. or because it is mix switches.


----------



## thisispatrick

Did you buy that recently? I remembered they had this whole multiple switches on a board thing a while back.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 
Did you buy that recently? I remembered they had this whole multiple switches on a board thing a while back.

yup.just receive this 3days ago. They are PBT keycap.that's their original keycap. but i don't like it, because it feel kinda slippery lol.

here more picture for the PBTvsABS.
not good picture..because my camera suck taking picture at night
http://fssbzz.bravehost.com/PBTvsABS.html

the font color is brown gray lasered on PBT..
it looks very dirty, but is actually the original color of the key cap.


----------



## Andy.Yung

Is there any place I can buy replacement keycaps for my Rosewill Cherry MX keyboard that are preferably double shot?


----------



## thisispatrick

Signature Plastics?


----------



## ripster

There was a group buy at Geekhack and those keys were fully compatible with the Rosewill/Das/Filco.

No longer on the menu.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
There was a group buy at Geekhack and those keys were fully compatible with the Rosewill/Das/Filco.

No longer on the menu.









lol. I have this key on my deck.

It would be useful if I used my keyboard for navigating the computer. But I don't.


----------



## Andy.Yung

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Signature Plastics?


I just got my quote back from them. I asked for a set of keycaps from their SA line (which I think is the closest match to the keycaps I currently have) in black.

"generally around $500 for one complete set of 2-shot or pad-printed keycaps...."

Ouch.


----------



## Crazy9000

To order from SP you're going to need to do a group buy of around 50+, in order to get costs under control.

I'm not sure why people here keep recommending them, as it's not very practical for someone who is just looking to buy some keycaps for themselves.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


To order from SP you're going to need to do a group buy of around 50+, in order to get costs under control.

I'm not sure why people here keep recommending them, as it's not very practical for someone who is just looking to buy some keycaps for themselves.


Idk that was the only company that came to mind since I remembered GH doing its custom order. I don't really know other companies to do it so that's why I recommend them. Other than that, I'd love to hear other suggestions as well.


----------



## W4LNUT5

I thought SP keycaps were mad thin? Why would I ever want them?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


I thought SP keycaps were mad thin? Why would I ever want them?


If you have the OCN Keycap it's SP I do believe.

While it's only about 75% as thick as one of the key caps on my Deck, it's not drastically different when it comes to sound.


----------



## Crazy9000

Why would how thick the keycap is matter that much?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Why would how thick the keycap is matter that much?

Material & Thickness change the noise you hear when you bottom out. Also, thinner caps have a different feel. And on a stiff switch, if the cap is very thin, it can feel like there's lots of flex when you hit it from the side instead of strait on.


----------



## webwit

Wait a few years, print your own.


----------



## fssbzz

or you can use Obook, order those KBC PBT engrave key caps from taobao. is around $50~75 shipped to your house, depending on which seller you got.


----------



## fssbzz

this damm thing is 3 shot molded.








http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...=cf5f_sku_3blk


----------



## Faraz

$21 for one keycap. Brilliant.


----------



## KipH

Wait till he comes out with the custom metal caps. I want to see a whole set carved out of Titanium! Who would even need a computer then. Just sit there hitting the i key over and over and smiling ....


----------



## webwit

Would it look like this? I paid "only" $3.84 per cap for these.










From. Next..


----------



## Crazy9000

Those look way too glossy for a keycap







. The light ones look okay though.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

$25 off an XArmor U9BL? Why say no?
http://www.overclock.net/freebies/88...ount-code.html


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


Would it look like this? I paid "only" $3.84 per cap for these.










From. Next..


that looks nice.
but, is not available here.
so..we got no choice.


----------



## reaper~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *faraz1729* 
$21 for one keycap. Brilliant.

$26 with tax + shipping. Hope clack gets well compensated for them. lol


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *reaper~* 
$26 with tax + shipping. Hope clack gets well compensated for them. lol

He'd better, or that's one heck of a markup by the store selling it.


----------



## webwit

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Those look way too glossy for a keycap







. The light ones look okay though.

Aaah.. you might prefer the second column.


----------



## Crazy9000

Yeah that's much better.


----------



## ripster

I only have one of those fancy metal keys but it provides the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything every time I press it... 









Also answers what happens when you sandblast a stenciled metal key.

So the answer to what this #9841 post thread is about is showing off stuff?


----------



## ramenbuoy

Just got a Xarmor u9bl:

Will post reviews as soon as I get it into my grimy little hands.


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

My filco arrived! It came with a nice key puller, makeup brush (looool), and 6 swappable keys







. I'm very happy with my purchase! It only took 5 days to arrive at my door from Tiawan!


----------



## Faraz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi*


My filco arrived! It came with a nice key puller, makeup brush (looool), and 6 swappable keys







. I'm very happy with my purchase! It only took 5 days to arrive at my door from Tiawan!


What is this I don't even...

My Tactile Touch just came with a red escape key.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *faraz1729*


What is this I don't even...

My Tactile Touch just came with a red escape key.










His came from Taiwan.


----------



## Faraz

Ah. That _would_ explain quite a lot.


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *faraz1729*


What is this I don't even...

My Tactile Touch just came with a red escape key.










I ordered it from www.armygroup.com.tw in Tiawan.







. I'm very thankful that I didn't wait for EKB to get Filcos in stock







.


----------



## bojinglebells

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi*


My filco arrived! It came with a nice key puller, makeup brush (looool), and 6 swappable keys







. I'm very happy with my purchase! It only took 5 days to arrive at my door from Tiawan!


where did you order from?

I'm thinking about ordering a G80-3494 from a Taiwanese site...

edit: lol, you already posted an answer before I could post this - working in too many forums atm for me


----------



## ramenbuoy

I searched but couldn't find anything regarding changing the LEDs on a keyboard. Anyone got a DIY? Or should I just try to figure it out when I get the keyboard.

nvm I found a pretty good guide via google.

New question: does the manual come with instructions on how to take apart and what kind of LEDs the keyboard uses? u9BL


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bojinglebells* 
where did you order from?

I'm thinking about ordering a G80-3494 from a Taiwanese site...

edit: lol, you already posted an answer before I could post this - working in too many forums atm for me









http://global.pchome.com.tw/?mod=ite...833&c=A05&tm=u
order 3494 from this site is cheaper
they have $20 promo shipping to global within <10kg
is about 5 full size keyboard weight.
so you can buy like 5 kb with only have to $20 shipping.


----------



## bojinglebells

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
http://global.pchome.com.tw/?mod=ite...833&c=A05&tm=u
order 3494 from this site is cheaper
they have $20 promo shipping to global within <10kg
is about 5 full size keyboard weight.
so you can buy like 5 kb with only have to $20 shipping.

that was actually the site I was looking at and I couldn't even find the 3494 on the site he got his Filco from

just have to wait for money to transfer to paypal before I can place an order though

Not really sure I want to be buying too many keyboards at those prices, the 3484 alone is pushing $160 before the shipping

I was considering getting a tactile switch board for my parents but I could always get them a Razer BlackWidow or a Rosewill RK-9000 for relatively cheap here.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bojinglebells* 
that was actually the site I was looking at and I couldn't even find the 3494 on the site he got his Filco from

just have to wait for money to transfer to paypal before I can place an order though

Not really sure I want to be buying too many keyboards at those prices, the 3484 alone is pushing $160 before the shipping

I was considering getting a tactile switch board for my parents but I could always get them a Razer BlackWidow or a Rosewill RK-9000 for relatively cheap here.

or a ducky 1087 will be great too.


----------



## waar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi*


My filco arrived! It came with a nice key puller, makeup brush (looool), and 6 swappable keys







. I'm very happy with my purchase! It only took 5 days to arrive at my door from Tiawan!


how'd u navigate the site? i tried using google translate and it's still confusing. seems like they have filcos with brown switches.

nvm, i was looking at pchome link.. they seem to the cherry brown filcos.


----------



## bl1nk

Didn't want to open a new thread for a relatively simple question..

I'm looking for a gaming mechanical that has browns with red led backlights, does it exist? I couldn't find any, but I'm fairly new to mechanical keyboards so I don't know of all the good sites quite yet.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The only backlit mechanicals that come in colors other than blue were Deck; and Deck has discontinued most of those. The red ones they did have had MX blacks.

You can find red backlit TG3 keyboards (TG3 is the parent company of Deck) but they have MX blacks as well.


----------



## bl1nk

Yea thats what I found in my search as well.. I'm just being too picky, I'll compromise on the LED color.


----------



## Ikrin

There aren't any mechanical keyboards out that have led backlighting with brown switches, afaik. Xarmor will be releasing one in the future, but I don't believe any exist right now.


----------



## Marin

Cherry or Topre Skull keycap?

Filco is used with my desktop while my HHKB comes to school with me. Hmmm...


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

*EDIT*: I am blind and missed the separate thread. Oh well, I think there are some people that tend to gravitate towards this megathread.

*Sourced from Geekhack since I didn't see it here (link):*

(emphasis is mine)

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KikassAssassin*


Elitekeyboards just sent out an email to everyone on the EK newsletter, and to everyone who has recently inquired about Filco keyboards. The first part of the email is just announcing Clickclack's keys, but then there's this:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EliteKeyboards*

A VERY IMPORTANT MESSAGE:

FILCO products have been in short supply recently, and this has been due
to our supplier not being able to meet market demand. We're very sorry
for this inconvenience; particularly at this time of the year!

Unfortunately, despite our recent efforts, *our supply of FILCO products
will not be improving, so we have taken this turn of events as an
opportunity to search for alternative products which can meet our
customers' demands*.

*So without beating around the bush too much, in Jan/Feb 2011 EK will
offer a new keyboard line-up with Cherry MX switches!*

These boards will replace all FILCO products (and then some







. We've
selected them with much discretion, and believe they will meet or exceed
the quality and functionality of FILCO products and provide a better
value in a very competitive market!

Further details to follow on our website soon. We appreciate your
continued support!


----------



## thiru

Already a thread here:
http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/8...d-filco-2.html


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

just got the e-mail! I'm glad I got my keyboard when I did. I wonder who will fill EKB's shoes once diatech can produce sufficient quantitys of filcos


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Already a thread here:
http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/8...d-filco-2.html


Yeah, I know. I edited 9 minutes ago, you posted 8 minutes ago.

Looks like I ninja edited that acknowledgement in before you realized it


----------



## Manyak

To those who care: http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/8...-ultimate.html


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manyak* 
To those who care: http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/8...-ultimate.html










I reserve judgement on that board until we see how quickly the letters wear off the keys. Hopefully, they'll last a long long time.


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

So... how's the guide rewrite going?


----------



## ripster

I'd recommend starting with this page of the guide.


----------



## thisispatrick

Hm...


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thisispatrick* 





Hm...

I would like to see somebody mess with his key repeat rate.


----------



## Crazy9000

In case anyone is curious what it takes to go over the 6 key limit of USB-

I'm playing one of the newer THPS games. So at one point I will hold up,right to do a grab trick, V to hold the grab, X to keep spinning in the air. I'm going to start pre-holding C so I will start grinding when I hit a rail, and hold down spacebar since that will ollie again later when I need to.

At this point we are at the full 6 key limit, but still okay. Now, I need to hit the walk key, numpad 1, in order to actually land on a rail instead of in the half pipe. Since I'll probably hit that just before letting the grab go, it's going to not register that keypress over USB, and I'm going to smash into the halfpipe sideways and break every single bone in the skaters body







.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
In case anyone is curious what it takes to go over the 6 key limit of USB-

I'm playing one of the newer THPS games. So at one point I will hold up,right to do a grab trick, V to hold the grab, X to keep spinning in the air. I'm going to start pre-holding C so I will start grinding when I hit a rail, and hold down spacebar since that will ollie again later when I need to.

At this point we are at the full 6 key limit, but still okay. Now, I need to hit the walk key, numpad 1, in order to actually land on a rail instead of in the half pipe. Since I'll probably hit that just before letting the grab go, it's going to not register that keypress over USB, and I'm going to smash into the halfpipe sideways and break every single bone in the skaters body







.

See ripster? PS/2 wins


----------



## ripster

Sorry Manyak, I'm not allowed to post in your thread but you can always PM me.


----------



## webwit

I'd just like to note that the ratio of total Manyak posts to total posts in this thread is 1:1. What is the philosophical meaning of this?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


Originally Posted by *webwit* 
I'd just like to note that the ratio of total Manyak posts to total posts in this thread is 1:1. What is the philosophical meaning of this?

Cake?


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *phaedrus2129*


cake?


_LIES_ I tell you


----------



## Manyak

CNET = FAIL

Quote:



The bottom line: The Topre Realforce 103UB 55g keyboard is a simple mechanical keyboard with unique, quiet switches underneath the keys that minimize the familiar clacking sound of other mechanical keyboards. Passionate, well-off typists interested in accommodating their neighbors might have some interest in this expensive input device, but with few other standout features, we can't recommend it to other mechanical-keyboard fans due to its high price.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

I'm amazed CNET even reviewed one... so uh, serious question here, will any info be updated in the current iteration of the guide? I recall being told it wouldn't take long to do that...


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


will any info be updated in the current iteration of the guide? I recall being told it wouldn't take long to do that...










I'm thinking work on the guide would be better done in a wiki effort (whether access to that wiki was controlled to a few individuals via login or completely open). You can have the really knowledgeable people and maybe a few editors to clean up comprehension or remark on stuff that may not be clear or poorly described/overly verbose.

Just my two cents. I mean, PBworks and other sites will make fully functional wikis for you in a minute for free...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing*


I'm thinking work on the guide would be better done in a wiki effort (whether access to that wiki was controlled to a few individuals via login or completely open). You can have the really knowledgeable people and maybe a few editors to clean up comprehension or remark on stuff that may not be clear or poorly described/overly verbose.

Just my two cents. I mean, PBworks and other sites will make fully functional wikis for you in a minute for free...


If we went this route, then I think I could be a pretty good editor.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


If we went this route, then I think I could be a pretty good editor.


I'd talk to Schubs about that.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


I'd talk to Schubs about that.










I'll wait and see how this pans out, but thank you for the suggestion! Although, wouldn't it be up to Manyak since this is his guide/thread?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Although, wouldn't it be up to Manyak since this is his guide/thread?


It is, but given that he's active lately (and viewing this now) I don't understand why at least the lists of keyboards and switches haven't been updated. A complete guide reformat would take a while, but updating the actual pertinent information is a good start that, in contrast, won't take a while.

Plus, section editors are responsible for content, not moderators, unless there are no editors for the section. The whole situation with me and the Air Cooling section reflects this.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


I'm amazed CNET even reviewed one... so uh, serious question here, will any info be updated in the current iteration of the guide? I recall being told it wouldn't take long to do that...










I also told you I wouldn't do it last weekend!









This weekend can, and will be, be the guide's weekend.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


It is, but given that he's active lately (and viewing this now) I don't understand why at least the lists of keyboards and switches haven't been updated. A complete guide reformat would take a while, but updating the actual pertinent information is a good start that, in contrast, won't take a while.

Plus, section editors are responsible for content, not moderators, unless there are no editors for the section. The whole situation with me and the Air Cooling section reflects this.


Then I'll just wait and see how this pans out.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I also told you I wouldn't do it last weekend!









This weekend can be the guide's weekend.


Nono, you told me you weren't going to re-write the guide that weekend. You DID say it would take like half an hour to update the info I asked about and could do it then, but you ended up not doing that.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


CNET = FAIL


I'm not surprised. The Topre switches take a few days to get used to and fully appreciate. Cnet probably just used it to write another article, then made their judgments based solely on that.

I know I was kind of iffy the first week on mine. Now I love it.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Plus, section editors are responsible for content, not moderators, unless there are no editors for the section. The whole situation with me and the Air Cooling section reflects this.


Is there even an editor for this section yet btw?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Nono, you told me you weren't going to re-write the guide that weekend. You DID say it would take like half an hour to update the info I asked about and could do it then, but you ended up not doing that.










Oh yeah....









Oh well, this weekend will be the guide's weekend. And then noone can complain anymore.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I'm not surprised. The Topre switches take a few days to get used to and fully appreciate. Cnet probably just used it to write another article, then made their judgments based solely on that.

I know I was kind of iffy the first week on mine. Now I love it.


I think you missed the part where they called them mechanical switches, and that a keyboard that expensive doesn't offer enough features to be worth the money.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Is there even an editor for this section yet btw?


Nope, just the 5 moderators, including you. Any Editors will show up under Moderators in the lower-right corner of the section, in blue (obviously).


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


I think you missed the part where they called them mechanical switches, and that a keyboard that expensive doesn't offer enough features to be worth the money.


I can understand them being called mechanical switches, as it's easier to just lump them into that category. As for why it's expensive, they could have done a google search and figured it out.. It seems to be a pretty ignorant conclusion for a large site like cnet...

I mean they seemed to think the main feature was that it's a "mechanical" keyboard, and doesn't make as much noise as cherry switches.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

It sounds like CNET just ordered it and a bunch of stuff from Elitekeyboards.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CNET*

The keycap shapes vary by the rows on the board to accommodate the ideal typing angle for your hands. You can't use generic keycap replacements as a result, *but Topre includes a key puller, alternate colors for the W, A, S, and D keys, a red escape key, and additional Caps Lock and Ctrl keys for programmers who want to swap the two.*


Does the 103UB ship with these? I don't see them mentioned as included items on EliteKeyboards


----------



## Crazy9000

My 103 55g didn't ship with any of those, and it's the one they reviewed. They are all options at EK, but didn't come with it.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


My 103 55g didn't ship with any of those, and it's the one they reviewed. They are all options at EK, but didn't come with it.


Guess #1: 
EliteKeyboards saw "CNET" on the invoice and threw them in

Guess #2:
CNET Intern orders expensive keyboard and all the goodies, reviewer assumes it is all included


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I can understand them being called mechanical switches, as it's easier to just lump them into that category. As for why it's expensive, they could have done a google search and figured it out.. It seems to be a pretty ignorant conclusion for a large site like cnet...

I mean they seemed to think the main feature was that it's a "mechanical" keyboard, and doesn't make as much noise as cherry switches.










Except calling topre switches mechanical is like calling a Ford F650 a sports car.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Except calling topre switches mechanical is like calling a Ford F650 a sports car.




















I can't tell the difference either.


----------



## thiru

I want to try Topre keyboards so bad. Does keyboardco.com accept returns?


----------



## Ikrin

I'd like to see that thing make a sharp turn.

I still wonder what EK has in store for a new line up. I don't know why they would drop Filcos completely.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


I'd like to see that thing make a sharp turn.

I still wonder what EK has in store for a new line up. I don't know why they would drop Filcos completely.


I think this explains why:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EliteKeyboards*

_A VERY IMPORTANT MESSAGE:

FILCO products have been in short supply recently, and this has been due
to our supplier not being able to meet market demand. We're very sorry
for this inconvenience; particularly at this time of the year!

Unfortunately, despite our recent efforts, *our supply of FILCO products
will not be improving, so we have taken this turn of events as an
opportunity to search for alternative products which can meet our
customers' demands*.

*So without beating around the bush too much, in Jan/Feb 2011 EK will
offer a new keyboard line-up with Cherry MX switches!*

These boards will replace all FILCO products (and then some







. We've
selected them with much discretion, and believe they will meet or exceed
the quality and functionality of FILCO products and provide a better
value in a very competitive market!

Further details to follow on our website soon. We appreciate your
continued support!_


----------



## Conditioned

Hey,

Im looking for a new keyboard that fits the following criteria. I have been spending some time searching but not found anything that IÂ´m really happy with.

The criteria are:

Has very soft keys (like laptop keyboard or the razer arctosa. my hands are in bad shape so I need them very soft or I experience pain. This is the main reason IÂ´m looking for a new one). I think cherry reds wouuld probably be perfect for me but it seems they are rather rare and probably even rarer with swedish layout.

Supports ps/2 / full n-key rollover

Swedish localization

Somewhat stylish. This means no 'ordinary grey 80-s type keyboard' but itÂ´s ok as long as its black, silver or pretty much any other colour than the drab ordinary grey.

Optional:

Multimedia keys (play/stop/volume)

Decently priced. This is the least important.


----------



## Crazy9000

Why would you need nkro? If typing on a normal keyboard hurts, I don't see how you would need that many keys at once.

The xarmor and the black widow are the only ones I know of with much coating on the keys.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Why would you need nkro? If typing on a normal keyboard hurts, I don't see how you would need that many keys at once.

The xarmor and the black widow are the only ones I know of with much coating on the keys.


Gaming. 90% of the time I use it for work, but when I game I want the best there is. Still the #1 criteria is that the keys are soft. What do you mean with much coating?

Update. Seems the reason is this is so hard to find is cause there arent a lot of keyboards like this with swedish layout. http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=753 seems good though, IÂ´m wondering if there is one that has even lower keys (like the arctosa for example).


----------



## KipH

Soft keys as in light key-press or soft as in physically soft (padded)?

NKRO? was also my first thought. If you need the softest key-press or you get pain how often will you press a lot of keys at once? NKRO is debated but hardly anyone really used it. Even the new Razor "Gaming" keyboard only had 2kro.


----------



## gonX

Conditioned, get the Razer BlackWidow. It's the only mechanical keyboard I can think of that has light switches that are nice for typing as well.


----------



## bojinglebells

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Conditioned* 
Hey,

Im looking for a new keyboard that fits the following criteria. I have been spending some time searching but not found anything that IÂ´m really happy with.

The criteria are:

Has very soft keys (like laptop keyboard or the razer arctosa. my hands are in bad shape so I need them very soft or I experience pain. This is the main reason IÂ´m looking for a new one). I think cherry reds wouuld probably be perfect for me but it seems they are rather rare and probably even rarer with swedish layout.

Supports ps/2 / full n-key rollover

Swedish localization

Somewhat stylish. This means no 'ordinary grey 80-s type keyboard' but itÂ´s ok as long as its black, silver or pretty much any other colour than the drab ordinary grey.

Optional:

Multimedia keys (play/stop/volume)

Decently priced. This is the least important.

no need for reds, reds are linear, browns might feel like they require more force but technically are rated 45g just like the reds, this would be because of the tactile feedback at the actuation point that they provide.

blues would work as well but are marginally heavier at 50g

finding you a keyboard wouldn't be hard if it wasn't for your Swedish requirement, if you are comfortably proficient touch typing and don't mind blank keys then I'm sure it would be easy to find a Das Keyboard Ultimate with blank key caps in a 105 key euro format that would fit the bill.


----------



## saiyanzzrage

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ksireaper* 
Ok, so i got my Xarmor U9BL and i love it.

I only have 1 problem with it, when i shut my PC off, the keyboard does not turn off, it still stays on, as in athe LED on the boards all stay lit up.

i use the PS/2 port.

Is there a way in the Bios to kill power to the ps2 port when i shut the machine down?

just got mine yesterday, i LOVE this keyboard..i dont know how i lived without it

but I have the same issue as you...connected via ps2, the leds stay lit when the pc is completely off

if i connect via the ps2 to usb adapter, when i shut the pc off, the leds are off but the numlock, caps and function leds stay lit?

did you ever get it fixed?


----------



## ripster

If you guys do finally update the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide I'd like my copyrighted pictures removed.

That's the majority of the pictures here. The agreement I had was exclusive to Manyak.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kip69* 
Soft keys as in light key-press or soft as in physically soft (padded)?

NKRO? was also my first thought. If you need the softest key-press or you get pain how often will you press a lot of keys at once? NKRO is debated but hardly anyone really used it. Even the new Razor "Gaming" keyboard only had 2kro.

light press and prefferably small travel distance. I have the arctosa now, its not optimal for typing but its good enough and its pretty good for gaming except i get ghosting and sometimes it doesnt react when i press certain keys.

It seems, after I have dived even deeper into this that there will be mech keyboards with cherry browns (which is prolly what I will be getting in the end) coming soon. Filco, zowie and probably a few others with swedish layouts so ill just chill for a bit and kindly thank you for your advice so far.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Conditioned* 
Gaming. 90% of the time I use it for work, but when I game I want the best there is. Still the #1 criteria is that the keys are soft. What do you mean with much coating?

Update. Seems the reason is this is so hard to find is cause there arent a lot of keyboards like this with swedish layout. http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=753 seems good though, IÂ´m wondering if there is one that has even lower keys (like the arctosa for example).

I don't know if there are even Swedish keyboards with reds, so you'll have to go with that brown Filco.
But I think the Topre Realforce is even lighter, and there's one here:
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=793

Technically they're lighter, but I've never used them and they're expensive as hell.


----------



## kyle-reece

If you have RSI problems then why are you considering a standard 104 key keyboard?
you should be looking at ergonomic keyboards like the kinesis or maltron
might want to consider foot switches too using them for shift takes a hell of a lot of strain out of the outsides of your hand


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
I don't know if there are even Swedish keyboards with reds, so you'll have to go with that brown Filco.
But I think the Topre Realforce is even lighter, and there's one here:
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=793

Technically they're lighter, but I've never used them and they're expensive as hell.

Great tip, thanks. Apparently it uses the same keys as the guy who wrote http://www.fz.se/artiklar/hardvara/2...lco-majestouch uses. HE describes the happy hacker kb as his holy grale of keyboards http://quinlanfaris.com/?p=69.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

If CNET's review of the Realforce 55g made you groan enough, read the user review that popped up today.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing* 
If CNET's review of the Realforce 55g made you groan enough, read the user review that popped up today.

He says he's letting it go for half price on Craigslist...

...must.. find.. that.. listing...


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

I looked and I didn't see it myself, at least not in the cities I checked.


----------



## candy_van

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
I think this explains why:


Quote:

Originally Posted by EliteKeyboards

A VERY IMPORTANT MESSAGE:

FILCO products have been in short supply recently, and this has been due
to our supplier not being able to meet market demand. We're very sorry
for this inconvenience; particularly at this time of the year!

Unfortunately, despite our recent efforts, our supply of FILCO products
will not be improving, so we have taken this turn of events as an
opportunity to search for alternative products which can meet our
customers' demands.

So without beating around the bush too much, in Jan/Feb 2011 EK will
offer a new keyboard line-up with Cherry MX switches!

These boards will replace all FILCO products (and then some. We've
selected them with much discretion, and believe they will meet or exceed
the quality and functionality of FILCO products and provide a better
value in a very competitive market!

Further details to follow on our website soon. We appreciate your
continued support!
Not cool









Is there anywhere else one could even get a Filco? I was planning on buying a 104 Linear Force and/or Tactile Touch


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candy_van* 
Not cool









Is there anywhere else one could even get a Filco? I was planning on buying a 104 Linear Force and/or Tactile Touch









well, they will be getting better kb Leopold.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
If you guys do finally update the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide I'd like my copyrighted pictures removed.

How is anyone supposed to know that those are copyrighted unless you say? They don't have that watermark you usually put on the pics you provide...


----------



## ripster

Info was stripped when hosted at OCN. I have talked to Manyak about this in PMs.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
Info was stripped when hosted at OCN. I have talked to Manyak about this in PMs.

Oh. Huh... guess he'll have to take his own pics, then.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Under the keycap printing & keycap shape sections of the guide Ripster is thanked for the pictures in both, so I think that the fact that those pictures belong to Ripster is pretty clear.


----------



## candy_van

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fssbzz* 
well, they will be getting better kb Leopold.









These?

They look pretty similar to Filco, save for the giant logo in the top right / on-key LEDs (caps, numlock, etc), what are the other differences?

...I'm still







about this.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candy_van* 
These?

They look pretty similar to Filco, save for the giant logo in the top right / on-key LEDs (caps, numlock, etc), what are the other differences?

...I'm still







about this.

here some review








http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=13258


----------



## tombom

Are you going to add the Razer Blackwidow to the front page?


----------



## ripster

Lol.


----------



## Zerkk

Just ordered an xarmor







, can't wait to get it.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


here some review








http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=13258


Might just be me, but a lot of the features remind me of the Ducky keyboards (i.e. LEDs for the lock keys in the switches, detachable USB, along with the cable routing, and I think they also use Cherry stabilizers, if I'm not mistaken).


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


Might just be me, but a lot of the features remind me of the Ducky keyboards (i.e. LEDs for the lock keys in the switches, detachable USB, along with the cable routing, and I think they also use Cherry stabilizers, if I'm not mistaken).


Right, though Leopolds do the lasered lettering better but lack the 4 extra media keys and FN functions. If you don't mind those 2 omissions then the Leopold may be the better option.


----------



## Ikrin

I think Ducky keyboards also offer the option to switch the left Windows key with caps lock or something like that.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Right, though Leopolds do the lasered lettering better but lack the 4 extra media keys and FN functions. If you don't mind those 2 omissions then the Leopold may be the better option.


erm how did they do better Lasered lettering?
how you judge it?

Ducky got Laser PBT Keycap too. but i really don't know how to judge a Lasered Lettering good or bad









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


I think Ducky keyboards also offer the option to switch the left Windows key with caps lock or something like that.


Ducky Has Win LOCK, Ctrl_L swap with Capslock, WIN and ALT swap location.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


erm how did they do better Lasered lettering?
how you judge it?

Ducky got Laser PBT Keycap too. but i really don't know how to judge a Lasered Lettering good or bad










The contrast is better on Leopolds. I don't know what kind of keycaps they use, but that may have something to do with it.


----------



## candy_van

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


here some review








http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=13258


Yea looks good, would like the full size though, and still...kinda likin' the Filco better than the one I found :/
We'll see, I'm sure once they land on EK I'll have a lot more to see/read.

Out of curiousity, what of Filco's distribution here?
I can't find a darn thing about them other than what EK ever had.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I don't know if there are even Swedish keyboards with reds, so you'll have to go with that brown Filco.
But I think the Topre Realforce is even lighter, and there's one here:
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=793

Technically they're lighter, but I've never used them and they're expensive as hell.


I talked to bruce at the keyboard co. Apparently the topre doesnt support ps/2 which makes full n-kro impossible. 
On http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=793 it says "The subtle gold on black keycaps with their tactile feel and N Key Rollover ensure fast and accurate input."

When I point this out, instead of adjusting their website bruce justifies what the website says by explaining "Ouch.
I stand by every word on our website. 
I'll try and explain.

The thing with Topre is that they set out to make the best typing keyboard they could, and the statement is correct in that sense. Thinking office workers, in Japan. 
Gaming came along and also loved their product but the NKR is the same. Typing, you may bump two letters into each other, possibly three, but there is no need for NKR beyond that.
Gaming, you may need to press 4 or 5,commands at once depending on what you play, assuming you use a mouse and don't have any other body part spare, you never need 6 even. 
Or that's my understanding of how it works, though I will admit it is a complicated subject."

Personally if IÂ´m buying a 200 euro keyboard I at least want some accurate information, not a bunch of lies.

Edit: Now that I think about it they never said 'Full' n-kro, so I guess their info is accurate after all.


----------



## superj1977

Hi all,can i ask you for your opinions and thoughts on this cherry keyboard.

Im hoping to find something for my first mechanical keyboard thats going to be ok for some gaming action and just general use.

  Cherry G80 High Quality Click Action Keyboard G80-3000LSCGB-2: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories
 TIA


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Conditioned* 
I talked to bruce at the keyboard co. Apparently the topre doesnt support ps/2 which makes full n-kro impossible.
On http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=793 it says "The subtle gold on black keycaps with their tactile feel and N Key Rollover ensure fast and accurate input."

When I point this out, instead of adjusting their website bruce justifies what the website says by explaining "Ouch.
I stand by every word on our website.
I'll try and explain.

The thing with Topre is that they set out to make the best typing keyboard they could, and the statement is correct in that sense. Thinking office workers, in Japan.
Gaming came along and also loved their product but the NKR is the same. Typing, you may bump two letters into each other, possibly three, but there is no need for NKR beyond that.
Gaming, you may need to press 4 or 5,commands at once depending on what you play, assuming you use a mouse and don't have any other body part spare, you never need 6 even.
Or that's my understanding of how it works, though I will admit it is a complicated subject."

Personally if IÂ´m buying a 200 euro keyboard I at least want some accurate information, not a bunch of lies.

Edit: Now that I think about it they never said 'Full' n-kro, so I guess their info is accurate after all.

But what Bruce doesn't understand is that using "N Key Rollover" means _full_ N Key Rollover. I mean, what he needs to understand is that almost every mechanical keyboard that has full N Key Rollover either uses "N Key Rollover" to describe it, or just "NKRO". This is due to what the "N" means in "N Key Rollover"/"NKRO".

So it is still incorrect. He needs to correct it by saying _"the key rollover"_, or _"the matrix used provides good key rollover"_. He also needs to make sure to say somewhere that it's still 6KRO, or 6 Key Rollover. I mean, he needs to say that USB spec limits us to 6 simultaneous key presses plus 4 modifiers.

In other words, he needs to understand the difference between "*N* Key Rollover" and "*6* Key Rollover".


----------



## thiru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Conditioned* 
I talked to bruce at the keyboard co. Apparently the topre doesnt support ps/2 which makes full n-kro impossible.
On http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=793 it says "The subtle gold on black keycaps with their tactile feel and N Key Rollover ensure fast and accurate input."

When I point this out, instead of adjusting their website bruce justifies what the website says by explaining "Ouch.
I stand by every word on our website.
I'll try and explain.

The thing with Topre is that they set out to make the best typing keyboard they could, and the statement is correct in that sense. Thinking office workers, in Japan.
Gaming came along and also loved their product but the NKR is the same. Typing, you may bump two letters into each other, possibly three, but there is no need for NKR beyond that.
Gaming, you may need to press 4 or 5,commands at once depending on what you play, assuming you use a mouse and don't have any other body part spare, you never need 6 even.
Or that's my understanding of how it works, though I will admit it is a complicated subject."

Personally if IÂ´m buying a 200 euro keyboard I at least want some accurate information, not a bunch of lies.

Edit: Now that I think about it they never said 'Full' n-kro, so I guess their info is accurate after all.

Do you play games that require both your hands on your keyboard?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But what Bruce doesn't understand is that using "N Key Rollover" means _full_ N Key Rollover. I mean, what he needs to understand is that almost every mechanical keyboard that has full N Key Rollover either uses "N Key Rollover" to describe it, or just "NKRO". This is due to what the "N" means in "N Key Rollover"/"NKRO".

So it is still incorrect. He needs to correct it by saying _"the key rollover"_, or _"the matrix used provides good key rollover"_. He also needs to make sure to say somewhere that it's still 6KRO, or 6 Key Rollover. I mean, he needs to say that USB spec limits us to 6 simultaneous key presses plus 4 modifiers.

In other words, he needs to understand the difference between "*N* Key Rollover" and "*6* Key Rollover".









Well, the Topres are NKRO, it's just the USB one are limited to sending six scancodes at once


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Well, the Topres are NKRO, it's just the USB one are limited to sending six scancodes at once









But isn't it true that they don't work with a USB to PS/2 adapter? From what I've seen, none of the Topre Realforce boards at EK feature NKRO.


----------



## Tator Tot

Isn't there a special adapter you can buy for them that works for USB to PS2 Conversion?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tator Tot* 
Isn't there a special adapter you can buy for them that works for USB to PS2 Conversion?

Maybe. But is NKRO the end result?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Maybe. But is NKRO the end result?

Over PS/2 then yes it would be.

If I recall, it's like the Deck USB & PS/2 keyboards, your standard passive adapters won't work but special ones will.


----------



## Crazy9000

I'd test my topre but I can't find any adapters at the moment.

If it needs an active adapter, it shouldn't offer any more rollover then USB does.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I'd test my topre but I can't find any adapters at the moment.

If it needs an active adapter, it shouldn't offer any more rollover then USB does.

This.

I mean, if I recall correctly, then I think the only way NKRO is possible over PS/2 is if the keyboard is designed for it.


----------



## ripster

Please check the NKRO Wiki.


----------



## candy_van

So no-one knows anything about this company / us distribution...awesome.


----------



## ripster

How's that Deck USB port working out for ya?

It was an exclusive US Agreement. They even seem to be shutting down the PChome Taiwanese sales of Filcos to the US.

Luckily they are all over Japan. You could get around it using a broker.


----------



## candy_van

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
How's that Deck USB port working out for ya?

It was an exclusive US Agreement. They even seem to be shutting down the PChome Taiwanese sales of Filcos to the US.[/IMG]

Worked just dandy by my standards, 6 key NKRO is just fine for me









I wonder who (if at all) will try and be a supplier for N. America?
Diatec doesn't list anything for N. America now, in lieu of EK dropping them.

How would I go about getting one from them (JP) w/ a broker?


----------



## fssbzz

EK probably stop distribute diatec keyboard.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ripster* 
They even seem to be shutting down the PChome Taiwanese sales of Filcos to the US.

Considering the shortages, I'm not surprised. The question now is, will Leopold re-do their website in English at some point?


----------



## ripster

It's a distribution issue with Elitekeyboards.

Engrish is my native language.


----------



## webwit

Leopold doesn't seem to like foreigners very much, but maybe I'm wrong. Tried to buy from they twice, to no avail. I think you are allowed to buy from their site if you are not in Korea, as long as you have a payment method which requires you to be in Korea, or something like that. Through a buying service, my target was out of stock, except for Koreans from kbdmania who seemed to be still buying the board. In any case my buying service was really pissed at them because they lost the commission.


----------



## ripster

They ship internationally but don't take ATM transfers, credit cards, or Paypal from foreigners. Not sure about Kimchee.

Actually the rumor is Elitekeyboards is importing from Leopold in a complex transaction involving South Korea, North Korea, Pakistan and Uranium ScarFace keycaps.


----------



## webwit

I was in Korea once. Some silly sport event. I'm not sure about Kimchee either. Let me put it this way: you don't wanna be in a crowded subway in the morning after.


----------



## Maytan

If there's one thing Korea does right, it's shipping. Korea Post from Incheon to Long Island NY in 3 days.

I oft wait longer than that for shipments from NJ.


----------



## webwit

Nor do you want to light a match.


----------



## runeazn

hmm so any korean somebody who can pay for that keyboard and i pay him via paypal







?


----------



## webwit

That's the trick. Or, you can bribe them with dirty vintage Cherry boards. They go crazy about that stuff, ask Sixty. I don't use paypal myself. They are evil.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Do you play games that require both your hands on your keyboard?


YouÂ´re missing the point. The point is they are saying something thatÂ´s not true, and instead of correcting their error, they try to bs me. Everyone makes mistakes so I wouldnÂ´t have a problem with that at all. 
But someone bs:ing me isÂ´nt ok. And yes. 6 keys should be enough for me, but if I can get full nkro that would be prefferable, cause IÂ´m counting on my next keyboard to last me a looooong time.

Besides I play http://bfbcs.com/stats_pc/rabbitsfoot and I also wrote (shamefully selfpromoting) a tweak guide for it thats stickied on ea us forums http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/li...2.page#8463553. ItÂ´s njot very well organized but the info is good.

Seems zowie might create a red cherry kboard, might go with that. I read soemone who says its nicer to type with than the browns. I just realized that sicne I got my arctosa my typings been really slow, now I understand why.


----------



## thiru

If you'd rather get a lesser keyboard because of that, suit yourself.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Conditioned*


YouÂ´re missing the point. The point is they are saying something thatÂ´s not true, and instead of correcting their error, they try to bs me. Everyone makes mistakes so I wouldnÂ´t have a problem with that at all. 
But someone bs:ing me isÂ´nt ok. And yes. 6 keys should be enough for me, but if I can get full nkro that would be prefferable, cause IÂ´m counting on my next keyboard to last me a looooong time.

Besides I play http://bfbcs.com/stats_pc/rabbitsfoot and I also wrote (shamefully selfpromoting) a tweak guide for it thats stickied on ea us forums http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/li...2.page#8463553. ItÂ´s njot very well organized but the info is good.

Seems zowie might create a red cherry kboard, might go with that. I read soemone who says its nicer to type with than the browns. I just realized that sicne I got my arctosa my typings been really slow, now I understand why.


I don't know... it looks to me like the guy just doesn't know what he's talking about. I mean, he seems to think the term "N Key Rollover" can mean "6 Key Rollover" which is absolutely incorrect.

So, I think that he isn't trying to BS you: he's just wrong and doesn't know it. I have never seen an expert in mechanical keyboards say "N Key Rollover" when they're talking about a keyboard that does not have it. Instead, they say things like "6 Key Rollover", or "2 Key Rollover", or "limited to USB spec", etc. The only time an expert uses the term "N Key Rollover" or "NKRO" is when it's a specific feature of the keyboard in question.

I mean, the word "full" is redundant when it's placed before "N Key Rollover" or "NKRO" because the term itself already means "full". That's why it's "N" and not "104". But the only reason why people like me _use_ the word "full" is just to ensure complete understanding for the uninitiated, or for those who might have a habit of reading too fast for their own good (I'm sometimes one of them).


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I don't know... it looks to me like the guy just doesn't know what he's talking about. I mean, he seems to think the term "N Key Rollover" can mean "6 Key Rollover" which is absolutely incorrect.

So, I think that he isn't trying to BS you: he's just wrong and doesn't know it. I have never seen an expert in mechanical keyboards say "N Key Rollover" when they're talking about a keyboard that does not have it. Instead, they say things like "6 Key Rollover", or "2 Key Rollover", or "limited to USB spec", etc. The only time an expert uses the term "N Key Rollover" or "NKRO" is when it's a specific feature of the keyboard in question.

I mean, the word "full" is redundant when it's placed before "N Key Rollover" or "NKRO" because the term itself already means "full". That's why it's "N" and not "104". But the only reason why people like me _use_ the word "full" is just to ensure complete understanding for the uninitiated, or for those who might have a habit of reading too fast for their own good (I'm sometimes one of them).


Well in a way the board is NKRO-capable, USB isn't. End result is the same if it doesn't support the ps/2 adapter though.

Can anyone actually confirm it doesn't work with an adapter? Geekhack's wiki linked to an irrelevant post when I checked, so I'm not sure how good that information is.


----------



## KipH

Much as I love debating Key Rollover terms







I can forgive this one. At least he did not try to call it "Anti-ghosting"!" N(maximum allowed by USB)KRO or (6+4)KRO just does not roll of the tongue as easy.

The important thing to note would be that PS/2 does not improve the rollover for this board. I would think that caveat would be needed on a board that advertises as NKRO.

He is right that 6+4nkr should be enough for anyone except us geeks. I am plenty happy with mine. I could easily recommend a 6+4 board to anyone looking for more then 2kro or "wasd gaming cluster enhanced"KRO


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


Much as I love debating Key Rollover terms







I can forgive this one. At least he did not try to call it "Anti-ghosting"!" N(maximum allowed by USB)KRO or (6+4)KRO just does not roll of the tongue as easy.

The important thing to note would be that PS/2 does not improve the rollover for this board. I would think that caveat would be needed on a board that advertises as NKRO.

He is right that 6+4nkr should be enough for anyone except us geeks. I am plenty happy with mine. I could easily recommend a 6+4 board to anyone looking for more then 2kro or "wasd gaming cluster enhanced"KRO


This.

If I remember correctly, then I believe that in order for a keyboard to have N Key Rollover, it must be a specific feature of the keyboard. So if I remember correctly, then I believe the keyboard must have a special controller or something built into the keyboard in order for it to have NKRO (over PS/2, of course).

That's why the ABS M1 doesn't have NKRO over PS/2 (that is, if the keyboard even functions on a USB to PS/2 adapter). And that's why some of those Deck keyboards that don't feature NKRO won't suddenly have NKRO if an adapter is used. And that's why the Razer Black Widow won't have NKRO if an adapter is used.

It's just like the Filco Majestouch boards that were offered by Elite Keyboards: there were the plain ones, and then there were the "NKRO" models. The plain ones came with a USB to PS/2 adapter, but that didn't give them NKRO.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Well in a way the board is NKRO-capable, USB isn't. End result is the same if it doesn't support the ps/2 adapter though.

Can anyone actually confirm it doesn't work with an adapter? Geekhack's wiki linked to an irrelevant post when I checked, so I'm not sure how good that information is.


--> 
Geekhack NKRO Wiki.

--> Confirmed NKRO or 6KRO

--> Topre Realforce 87U. Source 2.

Quote:



Topre Realforce 87U: 6KRO under USB. Can not be used with PS/2 purple adapter. Source. Source 2.


Wikis are awesome.


----------



## Crazy9000

There we go, don't think the second source was on there earlier. Or maybe I'm blind







.


----------



## ripster

Hahaha - I actually probably added it just as you were viewing it.

I like keeping things up to date.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
This.

If I remember correctly, then I believe that in order for a keyboard to have N Key Rollover, it must be a specific feature of the keyboard. So if I remember correctly, then I believe the keyboard must have a special controller or something built into the keyboard in order for it to have NKRO (over PS/2, of course).

That's why the ABS M1 doesn't have NKRO over PS/2 (that is, if the keyboard even functions on a USB to PS/2 adapter). And that's why some of those Deck keyboards that don't feature NKRO won't suddenly have NKRO if an adapter is used. And that's why the Razer Black Widow won't have NKRO if an adapter is used.

It's just like the Filco Majestouch boards that were offered by Elite Keyboards: there were the plain ones, and then there were the "NKRO" models. The plain ones came with a USB to PS/2 adapter, but that didn't give them NKRO.


Diodes. Follow the blinking lights in the OP.

Although to be honest I never did quite follow all that (blinked too fast and I got a epileptic seizure).

Topres do it through a complex nesting of capacitive sensing circuitry but get the same end result.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
But isn't it true that they don't work with a USB to PS/2 adapter? From what I've seen, none of the Topre Realforce boards at EK feature NKRO.

I would draw a distinction between the actual rollover of the keyboard and how many keys can be sent from the keyboard to the computer at once. There's no such thing as a purposefully-designed 6KRO keyboard, it's just an artificial limitation created by USB controllers on a NKRO keyboard. It's not even a limitation of USB, you can create a USB controller that can send n keys at once using standard HID drivers.

PS/2 Topre keyboards are NKRO. Adapters won't work at all because you'd need the controller to output PS/2 signals like the Filco controller does.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thiru* 
If you'd rather get a lesser keyboard because of that, suit yourself.


Also the keyboard co say "Swedish/Finnish Topre Realforce Capacitive Keyboard

Now available for the first time and exclusively produced for The Keyboard Company, the Topre Realforce105SW keyboard, in Swedish/Finnish layout"

Funny there is this: http://www.verkkokauppa.com/popups/p...o.php?id=43871


----------



## vipjun

So i think my G15 kb is a piece of crap when it comes to hitting the same key over and over again. basically i can move my fingers faster than the key can move in its up and down state.

I'm undecided with getting a cherry red, black, or brown.

Also looking at the cherry ML 4100. the active state is 1.5 mm vs 2mm.

I can say that i do think laptop keys type better than the rubber kb's i've used.

So for a game like tetris where i'm basically not switching hand positions but need to double and triple tap the same key extremely fast which kb should i use?

i think the ML 4100 would be the best figuring the response time would be quickest but haven't really tried any of the other kb's.

Is there anything other than cherry that are just as good or better?
I'm willing to spend up to $200


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
I would draw a distinction between the actual rollover of the keyboard and how many keys can be sent from the keyboard to the computer at once. There's no such thing as a purposefully-designed 6KRO keyboard, it's just an artificial limitation created by USB controllers on a NKRO keyboard. It's not even a limitation of USB, you can create a USB controller that can send n keys at once using standard HID drivers.

PS/2 Topre keyboards are NKRO. Adapters won't work at all because you'd need the controller to output PS/2 signals like the Filco controller does.

I usually just call it 6+4KRO when over USB.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muchadoaboutnothing* 
If CNET's review of the Realforce 55g made you groan enough, read the user review that popped up today.

All products have whiners. I mean this guy doesnt know what he bought (like pointed out in the comments) NO USB BLACK ON GREY etc..

IÂ´m probably gonna buy this anyway, only thing that im wondering about is i read somehwere the space can be a bit sharp if you type a lot.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
I would draw a distinction between the actual rollover of the keyboard and how many keys can be sent from the keyboard to the computer at once. There's no such thing as a purposefully-designed 6KRO keyboard, it's just an artificial limitation created by USB controllers on a NKRO keyboard.

Hey, give me some credit! I know this already! Haven't you ever seen me tell this to others?

I didn't say that I think that there are purposefully-designed 6KRO keyboards. At least, I didn't _try_ to.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
It's not even a limitation of USB, you can create a USB controller that can send n keys at once using standard HID drivers.

Yep, I know. Microsoft has a keyboard that exceeds the 6KRO limitation.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
PS/2 Topre keyboards are NKRO. Adapters won't work at all because you'd need the controller to output PS/2 signals like the Filco controller does.

But we're referring to USB Topre Realforce boards.


----------



## ripster

It looks like this thread will hit 10000 posts before it hits 1M views.

That's a lot of rollover.


----------



## runeazn

haha,
so rip any new mech kb buying plans?


----------



## ripster

I'm skating on edge right now for not addressing the topic at hand so will refrain from speculation.


----------



## muchadoaboutnothing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Yep, I know. Microsoft has a keyboard that exceeds the 6KRO limitation.


We had found a source on one point at Geekhack and found out that the Sidewinder X4 shows up as multiple USB HID Generic Input Devices on the PC, sending keys 7-12 on the second one, etc...so the rollover wouldn't require drivers and would work on other OSes.

I believe, unless I have a vivid imagination. I'll try to find the page on Geekhack.

EDIT: Found it, or, if you don't speak Japanese, Google Translate:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Our esteemed robotic overlords at Google/Google Robot respect for our monarch in*

Is this how to be recognized. USB keyboard is usually because it is well known that the limit is about six keys, but I think many people wondering, in fact X4 SideWinder is "two keyboard devices" to act as In this "problem" to deal with it.
One is in the form in accordance with the regular keyboard keys are exchanged within six data in another, it is a mechanism to exchange data over it.


And Babelfish on that same section:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Babelfish*

As for this how doing, being recognized? Because as for the keyboard of USB connection the usually, maximum of 6 keys the limit is well known, you think that the person who is thought in doubt it is many but, actual place SideWinder X4, by the fact that it operates as "two keyboard devices", it has coped with this "problem". As for one the data within 6 keys is exchanged in the form which corresponds to the usual keyboard, it is another, it has become the setting up that exchanges the data which exceeds that.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But we're referring to USB Topre Realforce boards.


The adapter comment was in reference to the USB Topre keyboards. There was some discussion a few pages back that I briefly glanced through as to whether a USB-PS/2 adapter would make it NKRO. Not only would it not give it NKRO, it wouldnt work at all.


----------



## ripster

Never believe Asian websites. IIRC a Geekhacker reported it only showed one in Device Manager.

Anyway. Who needs more than 6KRO?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Never believe Asian websites. IIRC a Geekhacker reported it only showed one in Device Manager.

Anyway. Who needs more than 6KRO?


Crazy9000, apparently.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Crazy9000, apparently.


He needs over 9000 KRO.


----------



## ripster

I've met well endowed women with a need for > 6KRO but that is a discussion for a different time and place.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Never believe Asian websites. IIRC a Geekhacker reported it only showed one in Device Manager.

Anyway. Who needs more than 6KRO?


I do....


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


I've met well endowed women with a need for > 6KRO but that is a discussion for a different time and place.


Oh dear...


----------



## Geemaa

http://www.xarmor-usa.com/xarmor-u9b...-keyboard.html

How does this keyboard rate? Is it good, I am debating on this one or the Black Widow Ulti.


----------



## thiru

If you don't absolutely need the macro keys, go for it. Just read up on blue switches in the first post of this thread before making your decision.


----------



## webwit

Free Model M for the 10,000th poster in the next hour.


----------



## thiru

International?


----------



## ripster

I only accept NIB Model Ms. It's a sanitary thing.


----------



## webwit

And for the 10,000th post I offer a free walking vacation to Kazakhstan.


----------



## webwit

I wonder who wins the free walking vacation..not sure if they'll make 10,000 posters.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Pretty close now.


----------



## thiru

Not sure if serious.


----------



## fssbzz

who win?


----------



## thisispatrick

I just want to say if I do win this and do a review. I hope its biased as hell.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


I just want to say if I do win this and do a review. I hope its biased as hell.


lol.


----------



## webwit

I'll be waiting for your objective review of your walking vacation to Kazakhstan with much anticipation. Still 50 minutes for the 10,000th poster!


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


I'll be waiting for your objective review of your walking vacation to Kazakhstan with much anticipation. Still 50 minutes for the 10,000th poster!


Ah, I thought so.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I'm confused.


----------



## webwit

In general?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I'm confused.


10,000th post gets a walking vacation, 10,000th postER gets a Model M. This thread doesn't have anywhere close to 10,000 different posters.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


I'm confused.


Its ok, sometimes counting is hard. I lose track after I run out of fingers.


----------



## kidwolf909

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


Its ok, sometimes counting is hard. I lose track after I run out of fingers.










Hahahahaha.


----------



## webwit

515 posters so far. It's not going to happen.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


Free Model M for the 10,000th poster in the next hour.


I c what you did thar


----------



## ripster

In for 10011.

In binary that's......

Not 42. That was 10/10/10


----------



## Crazy9000

Figuring out what binary comes out to makes my head hurt after a few digits.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Figuring out what binary comes out to makes my head hurt after a few digits.


You just have to know how to add 512+256+128+64+32+16+8+4+2+1.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


You just have to know how to add 512+256+128+64+32+16+8+4+2+1.


Yeah if you have 1100101 you have to figure out what each place is, then add 64+32+0+0+4+0+1. Too much work.


----------



## thiru

Or you can use the Windows calculator to convert.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *crazy9000*


yeah if you have 1100101 you have to figure out what each place is, then add----------------. Too much work.


101

In my head in 10 seconds.


----------



## ripster

How many megaflops is that?


----------



## Manyak

When it's long it's faster to convert to hex first, since each hex digit is exactly 4 binary

like:

11010110 => 1010 0110 => A 6 => (10*16) + 6 => 166


----------



## ripster

Am I allowed to talk about the OP now that Manyak is here?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Am I allowed to talk about the OP now that Manyak is here?


Just do it in private... I don't know why it's such a big problem to do that.


----------



## howiec

Man, no wonder you write quality reviews for keyboards. You seem to be a (or combination of) keyboard aficionado, engineer/designer, person who works at a company that has keyboard products, or a well-researched geek (and probably a gamer too?).

Cheers,
Howard


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *howiec* 
Man, no wonder you write quality reviews for keyboards. You seem to be a (or combination of) keyboard aficionado, engineer/designer, person who works at a company that has keyboard products, or a well-researched geek (and probably a gamer too?).

Cheers,
Howard

Yes, a bit, no, yes, and yes (in that order)


----------



## ENTERPRISE

*DO NOT double post. You may post once after every reply.*


----------



## Ikrin

I think your avatar speaks for everyone's reply to that statement.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ikrin* 
I think your avatar speaks for everyone's reply to that statement.









Well, dude did like 8 in a row.


----------



## Ikrin

Guess I wasn't here for that. Heh.


----------



## TwoCables

Sure. I go away for a long time and I miss tons of lulz!

Oh yeah, and Ripster? Just discuss the OP with Manyak via private messages. It's much better than wasting space in this thread when this is something that only Manyak can handle. After all, *this is his thread*.

Here, I'll even provide a link: http://www.overclock.net/private.php?do=newpm&u=58914

Click that, and then begin your discussion with him while simultaneously *keeping* it in private. Thank you.


----------



## webwit

Was Enterprise replying to Manyak (nice..mod wars!), replying to someone unmentioned on an unmentioned page (like Ripster on page 593), or is he like a crazy street bum who keeps talking about random things to imaginary people around him? It is not entirely clear.


----------



## webwit

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
Sure. I go away for a long time and I miss tons of lulz!

Oh yeah, and Ripster? Just discuss the OP with Manyak via private messages. It's much better than wasting space in this thread when this is something that only Manyak can handle. After all, *this is his thread*.

Here, I'll even provide a link: http://www.overclock.net/private.php?do=newpm&u=58914

Click that, and then begin your discussion with him while simultaneously *keeping* it in private. Thank you.

I'm not following this Ripster thing, but what are you saying? We shouldn't discuss original posts of threads by replying to the thread? So someone should forward the last 10000 replies to Manyak, and Manyak will reply to them with PMs? I'm probably understanding it wrongly, this forum thing.

In any case, what is very irritating is all these people here who have to tell some Ripster guy how to deal with some other guy in opaque terms. Offtopic, I came here to talk about keyboards. If you have something to tell to Ripster which is not about keyboards, but political stuff only mods care about, can't you contact him by sending a PM? Why does everyone have to read these irrelevant messages?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *webwit* 
I'm not following this Ripster thing, but what are you saying? We shouldn't discuss original posts of threads by replying to the thread? So someone should forward the last 10000 replies to Manyak, and Manyak will reply to them with PMs? I'm probably understanding it wrongly, this forum thing.

In any case, what is very irritating is all these people here who have to tell some Ripster guy how to deal with some other guy in opaque terms. Offtopic, I came here to talk about keyboards. If you have something to tell to Ripster which is not about keyboards, but political stuff only mods care about, can't you contact him by sending a PM? Why does everyone have to read these irrelevant messages?

The reason why you don't understand is actually because you haven't been following it. Ripster has a ton of negative criticism about this guide, but yet he seems to be refusing to take these criticisms directly to Manyak via PMs even though he has been told to do that on several occasions. The most recent occurrence was just a few posts ago right here: http://www.overclock.net/11603207-post10012.html If I were to guess why he won't send him a private message, then I would say that he's just trolling (looking for attention, more or less).

But it goes deeper than this, although I will not talk about that part of it because I feel it's not necessary. However, I will say that Ripster is butt-hurt about something, and he has been making at least one vague reference to it each and every day now for close to 2 months. So, I have had more than enough.


----------



## webwit

Ah ok thanks for clearing that up. You gotta hate those trolls!


----------



## cozmo5050

wow so much good info. I never realized there were so many different types* (pun intended)









This is one of those moments where, it's in the wee hours of the night. Your gf is standing there in her skivvies, gently leaning against the open door to your office. As she sutrily beckons for you to come to bed, your response is, " Not now honey, I have a headache." -- and continue reading....

+1 rep for OP! ok time for some sleep.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


Was Enterprise replying to Manyak (nice..mod wars!), replying to someone unmentioned on an unmentioned page (like Ripster on page 593), or is he like a crazy street bum who keeps talking about random things to imaginary people around him? It is not entirely clear.


I think he likes to stop by every now and then to demonstrate his lack of situational awareness.


----------



## Ikrin

Are you implying that he is afflicted with online Aspergers?


----------



## ch_123

Situational awareness and social awareness are quite different things...


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *webwit* 
Was Enterprise replying to Manyak (nice..mod wars!), replying to someone unmentioned on an unmentioned page (like Ripster on page 593), or is he like a crazy street bum who keeps talking about random things to imaginary people around him? It is not entirely clear.

Nono, he was talking about a member that kept posting multiple times in a row for some kinda countdown... I don't know what he was doing it for.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
Nono, he was talking about a member that kept posting multiple times in a row for some kinda countdown... I don't know what he was doing it for.

For post*er* #10000 (not post #10000 in this thread, which had been misread) which was in for a free model M apparently.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ch_123* 
Situational awareness and social awareness are quite different things...

Social situations...


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
The reason why you don't understand is actually because you haven't been following it. Ripster has a ton of negative criticism about this guide, but yet he seems to be refusing to take these criticisms directly to Manyak via PMs even though he has been told to do that on several occasions.

I'm not taking sides, but I kind of have to agree with Ripster on the front that talking about the guide openly (with the other members of the forum) will likely be more productive.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
Nono, he was talking about a member that kept posting multiple times in a row for some kinda countdown... I don't know what he was doing it for.

Yea I reported "Little Overclocker/Something" because he kept posting over and over and over and over and over because he was trying to win that little joke webwit mentioned.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I'm not taking sides, but I kind of have to agree with Ripster on the front that talking about the guide openly (with the other members of the forum) will likely be more productive.

That's the problem; he wasn't so much talking about the guide openly as he was trolling it. I'm not sure how many times this has been cleaned up because of it...


----------



## ripster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I'm not taking sides, but I kind of have to agree with Ripster on the front that talking about the guide openly (with the other members of the forum) will likely be more productive.

I'm not taking sides either.





I've updated the "All About Keys" Geekhack Wiki with new pics btw so now they look completely different.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ikrin* 
Social situations...

I have Asperger Syndrome, and so I think I can confidently say that there is indeed quite a big difference between situational awareness and social awareness (as well as self-awareness too). I mean, I believe that I have no problem with situational awareness. The main thing lacking in people who have Asperger Syndrome is the normal set of social skills that involve proper/effective/efficient 2-way communication both verbally and non-verbally. A part of this is caused by a lack of self-awareness, while the rest is just basically being unable to pay close enough attention to catch all of the verbal and non-verbal cues. It seems like there is just a severe lack of energy because I'm much better at catching social cues when I am well rested, in a good mood, and have had an energy drink.

So anyway, Enterprise is not exhibiting any signs of Asperger Syndrome. What's _really_ going on is that only a handful of people know what's going on. Enterprise is one of them, and so am I. You can't fool a person in a thread who sees (and reads) every single post that gets posted. I mean, you can't fool me because I haven't missed a single post.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maytan* 
I'm not taking sides, but I kind of have to agree with Ripster on the front that talking about the guide openly (with the other members of the forum) will likely be more productive.

But there's much more going on than meets the eye. The reason why I'm able to understand what Ripster is actually doing is because I've been following this since the day he started doing what he is doing. Before this change, I actually liked Ripster; I was grateful to have him here. He was very helpful. But now it looks like he's determined to be banned because he is mainly trolling the staff while simultaneously trolling this thread. Unfortunately, only a few of us can see it. But I think he likes it that way because it only gives him more time to troll us before he's banned. Plus, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he has a private audience over at Geek Hack.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
That's the problem; he wasn't so much talking about the guide openly as he was trolling it. I'm not sure how many times this has been cleaned up because of it...

This.

Do you guys honestly believe I would be saying all of these things about Ripster if I didn't have a damn good reason for it?! You all know that I don't waste my time like that! I am onto him, and I know that he knows it. I also know that he _knows_ I know what he's doing (yes, he is playing mind games). The only people he has fooled are those who disagree with me! After all, if you disagree with me about Ripster, then it's proof that you haven't been following this and so therefore you don't know what's going on, nor can you know what provoked him - and I think that's exactly how he wants it.

It all started with something simple, and it also involved lmnop (if I remember correctly, both of them were told to stay on topic or something like that). But instead of doing what lmnop has obviously done, Ripster decided to stay and continually show us just how butt-hurt he is about this each and every single day. On top of that, he is obsessed with continually making negative comments about the guide itself (he actually doesn't care about the guide one bit). Additionally, he continues to troll us with his ongoing PS/2 vs. USB conversation because it's one of his ways of cutting down the Mechanical Keyboard Guide while simultaneously trolling all of its regular visitors.

It looks to me like he's the type of Geek Hacker who enjoys to make fun of OCN as a whole - as though we are the butt-crack of the internet. I mean, it's like I said: he actually doesn't care about the Mechanical Keyboard Guide one bit (I also sense that he couldn't care less about OCN either). That's why he won't discuss the guide with Manyak via private messages. I mean, if he genuinely wanted to help improve the guide, then he would discuss it with Manyak via private messages to show him all of the changes that he thinks should be made (he would be mature about it). After all, what good does it do to keep making fun of the guide in public like this when Manyak is the only person who can edit it? I'll tell you what good it does: it gives him the ability to show everyone what he thinks of this guide. Isn't it obvious that he has no real intention to help improve it?

So what should I do to prove that I'm right? I can't gather up all of Ripster's posts as a way to provide examples/proof because most of them have been deleted (some of the bad ones remain, but that's because they're too vague). So, I think the only way for me to prove it is to ask the staff to tell you instead of trying to cause everyone to just take my word for it. Oh but wait, Chunky Chimp's latest post (the very post I quoted above) says it all: *"That's the problem; he wasn't so much talking about the guide openly as he was trolling it. I'm not sure how many times this has been cleaned up because of it..."*

Need I say more?


----------



## webwit

I like the IBM Model M.


----------



## Vitaminx

I'm going to buy a Deck Legend for Christmas and am wondering what is better P2P or USB. I know that for P2P that you don't need to install any drivers but is that the only plus? What is recommended for Mechanical keyboards as the interface?


----------



## Crazy9000

You don't need to install drivers either way. Also it's ps/2

Anyways, use PS/2 if you think you will press more then 6 keys at the same time. If not, go for USB.


----------



## Vitaminx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


You don't need to install drivers either way. Also it's ps/2

Anyways, use PS/2 if you think you will press more then 6 keys at the same time. If not, go for USB.


Oh crap was thinking of Peer to Peer when I typed that. My bad.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vitaminx*


Oh crap was thinking of Peer to Peer when I typed that. My bad.


lol P2P keyboards. The new frontier in keylogging.


----------



## Munkypoo7

Manyak, TwoCables, other major contributors...

This is my humble apology to anyone I snapped at about mechanical keyboards on the entire OCN area









Just got my BlackWidow Ultimate in [after Manyak's review I was just overly sold







], and wow.

It's a pleasure to type on, oddly enough fewer typos, much faster typing,, lighter keys... everything you all have been toting and more.

Gaming is a breeze with it too, while other switches might be recommended, so far BFBC2, GuildWars, TF2, CSS all play so much better to my finger tips.

You guys knew this all along, and I was "afraid" [for a lack of better words] of the clackyness [noise]. I'll get over it. It isn't much more than my previous Lycosa.

Love the mass of the board, it doesn't move at all!

Doesn't have NKRO, which is fine by me, all the keypresses I use work flawlessly, plus now I have a spare 5 macro keys for usernames and passwords, and other random combinational down the road









~Munky

[Got the ultimate over the standard because for typing I still look at the keyboard when I type. The idea of home row keys always escaped me. Typing in the dark is kind of important to me since I procrastinate, so backlighting was a must lol]


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Anyone interested in a relatively cheap ergonomic mechanical?
http://www.overclock.net/other-compo...-keyboard.html


----------



## Crazy9000

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=11964

There's the GH thread, they seem to think the switches are good. I know some ALPS style switches were crappy.


----------



## fssbzz

selling my mech kb here.
ABS M1, and Ducky. if anyone interested.
http://www.overclock.net/other-compo...eycap-mix.html


----------



## ramenbuoy

what's the reason behind the mixed switches on the ducky?

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Munkypoo7*


Manyak, TwoCables, other major contributors...

This is my humble apology to anyone I snapped at about mechanical keyboards on the entire OCN area










It's all good. In fact, it's so good that I honestly don't remember!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Munkypoo7*


Just got my BlackWidow Ultimate in [after Manyak's review I was just overly sold







], and wow.


Yeah, now that I've seen Manyak's mini-review on it where he says that it feels better than the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click, even I kinda want one now! And to think, I said many negative things about it because it's a Razer product and also because they used iOne as their OEM.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Munkypoo7*


It's a pleasure to type on, oddly enough fewer typos, much faster typing,, lighter keys... everything you all have been toting and more.

Gaming is a breeze with it too, while other switches might be recommended, so far BFBC2, GuildWars, TF2, CSS all play so much better to my finger tips.

You guys knew this all along, and I was "afraid" [for a lack of better words] of the clackyness [noise]. I'll get over it. It isn't much more than my previous Lycosa.


Yeah, the Lycosa was kinda quiet, but not quiet enough to be _called_ quiet. But yeah, the clackiness sounds much nicer when it's coming from a quality mechanical keyboard as opposed to something like the Lycosa!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Munkypoo7*


Love the mass of the board, it doesn't move at all!

Doesn't have NKRO, which is fine by me, all the keypresses I use work flawlessly, plus now I have a spare 5 macro keys for usernames and passwords, and other random combinational down the road









~Munky

[Got the ultimate over the standard because for typing I still look at the keyboard when I type. The idea of home row keys always escaped me. Typing in the dark is kind of important to me since I procrastinate, so backlighting was a must lol]


Hehe, welcome to the club, so to speak.


----------



## Zerkk

Just got my xArmor, I'm kind of speechless. It's such a huge change from my model M it's going to take a bit to get use to. I really enjoy typing on it but while playing blackops and tf2 it's just so strange. The keys are nice and light but I'm reeeallly not use to it, I even found myself looking down a couple times because I felt lost on it. After a good 3 hours of gaming I was becoming a custom to the asdw cluster and getting use to the pressure needed to push the keys, I think after a little more time I could really enjoy this keyboard. Time to retire the good ole' model M







.

It's a lot sturdier than I expected. It's actually nice and heavy so it wont slide around on my desk and the wrist rest is really comfortable. I was really in need of one since my sweaty hand was starting to rub away the stain on my wood desk







.

Lastly the LED's are BRIGHT! I have to keep it on the 2nd or 3rd setting because anything higher is retina burning.


----------



## ripster

Most people have to keep the LEDs on their Deck/Xarmor/BlackWidow at a real low setting.

It would have been better for the Razer Black Widow Ultimate to have saved money on individual LEDs per key and gone with Logitech G series backlighting. Then they could have put the money into Signal Diodes (the non-Bling Emitting Kind) and gotten NKRO. $130 is a real ripoff, although the discounts will make it much better and probably wipe out Deck and Xarmor.


----------



## turbocharged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11655880*
> Most people have to keep the LEDs on their Deck/Xarmor/BlackWidow at a real low setting.
> 
> It would have been better for the Razer Black Widow Ultimate to have saved money on individual LEDs per key and gone with Logitech G series backlighting. Then they could have put the money into Signal Diodes (the non-Bling Emitting Kind) and gotten NKRO. $130 is a real ripoff, although the discounts will make it much better and probably wipe out Deck and Xarmor.


I keep the LED's on the highest setting on my TG3. Why keep it at a real low setting?

EDIT: Oh wait...probably a difference between Blue LED and Red LED intensity. Red generally doesn't bother eyes nearly as much.


----------



## ripster

Yeah, I think eyes are less sensitive to Red. Astronomers use red light.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11656366*
> Yeah, I think eyes are less sensitive to Red. Astronomers use red light.


Yeah they are.

Blue light has a higher frequency than red light does. So thus you're getting more waves into your eye in a set time frame than you are red light waves.

I personally keep my deck on the lowest setting (White LED model) just because it's enough to see the letters on a keys and give a nice illumination effect without being overly distracting in my peripheral vision.

Though I don't really notice them till about level 4 (assuming lowest point is level 1 and highest is level 8)


----------



## Ikrin

Well, if only by their brand rep, which I don't even get. At least Xarmor might get some more business after they release their upcoming models. I really don't think Razer will be taking the enthusiast market, anyway.


----------



## ripster

Xarmor has been around for only a year. The parent company has been around forever, first as Qtronix, now as i-One.

But then, if their serial numbers are in the mid 100's I'm not exactly seeing them taking the market by storm.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11656640*
> Xarmor has been around for only a year. The parent company has been around forever, first as Qtronix, now as i-One.
> 
> But then, if their serial numbers are in the mid 100's I'm not exactly seeing them taking the market by storm.


I thought that it was an order number that was in the low 100s (under 150).


----------



## ripster

Razer shipped 100 Black Widows while you were making that post.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11656821*
> Razer shipped 100 Black Widows while you were making that post.


Tell someone who cares. I'm eating right now.


----------



## TwoCables

So that's a "no"?


----------



## Jeffro422

For the price, as someone buying their first mechanical keyboard and have only used the original DAS and a SS 7G(didn't like typing on blacks) would you recommend buying the Blackwidow from Newegg at a good discount today or buy a iONE for about the same price?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Which iOne?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeffro422;11657077*
> For the price, as someone buying their first mechanical keyboard and have only used the original DAS and a SS 7G(didn't like typing on blacks) would you recommend buying the Blackwidow from Newegg at a good discount today or buy a iONE for about the same price?


Well, if you mean the iOne Scorpius M10, then definitely get the Black Widow. But if you mean some different iOne board that still costs about the same as the plain Black Widow, then which one is it?


----------



## Jeffro422

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11657150*
> Well, if you mean the iOne Scorpius M10, then definitely get the Black Widow. But if you mean some different iOne board that still costs about the same as the plain Black Widow, then which one is it?


I definitely mean the M10, I guess the blackwidow is the best board for the price.

Only thing I really dislike is the macro keys on the left side of the blackwidow, but I guess that's just something that takes getting used to.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeffro422;11657437*
> I definitely mean the M10, I guess the blackwidow is the best board for the price.
> 
> Only thing I really dislike is the macro keys on the left side of the blackwidow, but I guess that's just something that takes getting used to.


Then I recommend looking for something else. I admit that those macro keys would drive me up the wall! I once tried the G15, and it drove me insane! I have been using computers for over 15 years, and I've _never_ had anything to the left like that except for maybe a half a centimeter of the keyboard's body. So, the Black Widow would piss me off forever.

So, what is it that you like about the Black Widow? How does it compare to this Rosewill mechanical keyboard for you?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823201040

It has the Cherry MX Blues, and is basically identical to the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click:

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=filco_keyboards,majestouch_104key&pid=fkb104mceb

And it's perfectly identical to the Tactile Click NKRO if you buy this Rosewill board with a proper USB to PS/2 adapter:

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=filco_keyboards,majestouch_104key&pid=fkbn104mceb


----------



## Jeffro422

What I like about the Blackwidow is the entry into owning a mechanical keyboard for a low price.
I've looked into the Filco and the Rosewill and read how the Rosewill is identical to the Filco but snagging the Blackwidow at $55 after reading it's a quality keyboard makes me want to get used to the macro keys.

2 Hours Later Edit:: Sprung for the Blackwidow, Newegg sale ends today and it seemed too good to pass up at this time.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeffro422;11657590*
> What I like about the Blackwidow is the entry into owning a mechanical keyboard for a low price.
> I've looked into the Filco and the Rosewill and read how the Rosewill is identical to the Filco but snagging the Blackwidow at $55 after reading it's a quality keyboard makes me want to get used to the macro keys.
> 
> 2 Hours Later Edit:: Sprung for the Blackwidow, Newegg sale ends today and it seemed too good to pass up at this time.


And after what Manyak has said about it, I have a feeling you will absolutely love this keyboard if for no other reason but for how feels to type on it!


----------



## fssbzz

i guess there is no need to worry about the vanishing of PS/2 anymore.
Noppoo Choc mini NKRO under USB.


























source
http://diybbs.zol.com.cn/5/231_445170.html
http://article.pchome.net/content-1240636-6.html


----------



## fssbzz

and to anyone who interested with ducky 9008 PBT key cap.
i got it for sale here
http://www.overclock.net/other-compo...board-pbt.html


----------



## KipH

But if you nopoo you will get sick. Then you are a weak little boy.

Great weekend for me in Taipei. I got to play with a coloured Duckey, many filco's and a Toprey real force! ON SALE HERE FOR A MERE $200US! OPS, caps.


----------



## Crazy9000

Do they have any ps/2 realforce? lol


----------



## TwoCables

Nopoo. Tehee!


----------



## Maytan

Hey dere, did we ever get an expected release date on those Leopolds from EK?


----------



## fssbzz

January 2011. if im not mistaken lol


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fssbzz;11664231*
> January 2011. if im not mistaken lol


Ah, very good. I think I can hold out that long.


----------



## hglazm

I'm currently contemplating getting a das keyboard to replace my model m for college (its simply too loud, don't want to be a bother for my dormmates)

However, should I get blues or browns?
Is there a significant tactile difference between the two?
I would just get blues because they seem to be a favorite among typists and they apparently have a much more accurate tactile click to them (which I'm very used to because, you know, model m). But they still make a bit of noise. Anybody know how much? Comparable maybe to somebody tackin` away on a laptop?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hglazm;11665391*
> I'm currently contemplating getting a das keyboard to replace my model m for college (its simply too loud, don't want to be a bother for my dormmates)
> 
> However, should I get blues or browns?
> Is there a significant tactile difference between the two?
> I would just get blues because they seem to be a favorite among typists and they apparently have a much more accurate tactile click to them (which I'm very used to because, you know, model m). But they still make a bit of noise. Anybody know how much? Comparable maybe to somebody tackin` away on a laptop?


Blues will produce a sound when pressed just like the Model M. Browns however, will not. If you wish to go for silent computing then Browns it is.


----------



## KipH

Tell that to me wife. She yelled at me 2 times tonight for typing to loud. She may make me get rubber dome









Anyone know the most silent of keyboards with a good switch? Or should I try gluing rubber washers under my keys to silence them


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69;11668724*
> Tell that to me wife. She yelled at me 2 times tonight for typing to loud. She may make me get rubber dome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone know the most silent of keyboards with a good switch? Or should I try gluing rubber washers under my keys to silence them


Try using the dental bands trick. If not scissor switches are pretty darn silent.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69;11668724*
> Tell that to me wife. She yelled at me 2 times tonight for typing to loud. She may make me get rubber dome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone know the most silent of keyboards with a good switch? Or should I try gluing rubber washers under my keys to silence them


TOPRE hehe


----------



## Zerkk

Anybody with an xArmor have any problems with their space bar? After some gaming the key proceeded to become loose.

Something else that was strange, after a couple hours of BO my arm was tired from using the keyboard... I've never had that happen before, maybe I was just raging to much


----------



## Phaedrus2129

The stabilizer could be coming loose. Try carefully removing and reseating the key.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hglazm*


I'm currently contemplating getting a das keyboard to replace my model m for college (its simply too loud, don't want to be a bother for my dormmates)

However, should I get blues or browns?
Is there a significant tactile difference between the two?
I would just get blues because they seem to be a favorite among typists and they apparently have a much more accurate tactile click to them (which I'm very used to because, you know, model m). But they still make a bit of noise. Anybody know how much? Comparable maybe to somebody tackin` away on a laptop?


The mechanical clicks of the Cherry MX Blues are certainly quieter than the clicks that Buckling Springs make. It's more comparable to like a retractable pen, only a retractable pen is still louder than the Cherry MX Blues.

Either way, it sounds to me like you might be much happier with the Blues than Browns!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


Tell that to me wife. She yelled at me 2 times tonight for typing to loud. She may make me get rubber dome










So next time type louder while sticking your tongue out at her! I mean who does she think she is? The man of the house? lol

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


Anyone know the most silent of keyboards with a good switch? Or should I try gluing rubber washers under my keys to silence them










There is actually a rubber dental band "mod" that can reduce the sound of bottoming out. These little rubber bands are slid onto the round "stem" of the keycap itself. In other words, all you'd be doing is putting one mini rubber band on each keycap.

Here's what I mean:

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:8857

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Zerkk*


Anybody with an xArmor have any problems with their space bar? After some gaming the key proceeded to become loose.

Something else that was strange, after a couple hours of BO my arm was tired from using the keyboard... I've never had that happen before, maybe I was just raging to much










I know how corny this might sound, but it sounds to me like you're not staying relaxed. I mean after all, how else would your arm become tired from that?


----------



## Zerkk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I know how corny this might sound, but it sounds to me like you're not staying relaxed. I mean after all, how else would your arm become tired from that?


That's exactly it, I was raging to hard and was getting to tense, but I'll pass it off on the keyboard so people won't think I'm a rage-alcoholic.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Zerkk*


That's exactly it, I was raging to hard and was getting to tense, but I'll pass it off on the keyboard so people won't think I'm a rage-alcoholic.


ha, I like that idea!


----------



## Blue_Fire

Noticed the two new razer keyboards are not on the list. Cherry MX Blues. Well at least the black widow is. i don't have the ultimate.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blue_Fire;11695301*
> Noticed the two new razer keyboards are not on the list. Cherry MX Blues. Well at least the black widow is. i don't have the ultimate.


Manyak hasn't edited it. Don't worry about it. He'll get to it someday.


----------



## Azuremen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thisispatrick;11695305*
> Manyak hasn't edited it. Don't worry about it. He'll get to it someday.


In a Galaxy far, far away...


----------



## [email protected]

WOW i got owned by his thread.. interesting. What you guys think of the RAZER Tron keyboard? 150 bucks and is it even worth it? lol. Mechanical?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected];11695615*
> WOW i got owned by his thread.. interesting. What you guys think of the RAZER Tron keyboard? 150 bucks and is it even worth it? lol. Mechanical?


Not mechanical. Just lights and membranes. Not worth it IMO. Go for the BW series if you must get Razer.


----------



## Azuremen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected];11695615*
> WOW i got owned by his thread.. interesting. What you guys think of the RAZER Tron keyboard? 150 bucks and is it even worth it? lol. Mechanical?


Not worth the money at all, like patrick said. Much like how the Marauder StarCraft board is also a huge gimmick.

The BlackWidow is a very solid board for the price, and cheaper. And Mechanical. And still cheaper with the back lighting. Funny how that works out.


----------



## Ikrin

Lol, yea. Razer is a funny company. Just waiting for Logitech to debut their competition. I would say you still need to weigh what you want in a keyboard, though. If you need macro keys and don't care about NKRO, then I guess the BW is suitable. However, if you're going for the ultimate, then the Xarmor U9BL is overall the better pick.


----------



## Shane1244

Just picked up the BlackWiddow for $60 with my BestBuy Discount!









I've been missing out, Here I was thinking that the whole mechanical keyboard thing was a big gimmick.. lmao! boy was I wrong! Its an absolute dream to type on in comparison to my Logitech G110 which I already loved...


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thisispatrick;11695652*
> Not mechanical. Just lights and membranes. Not worth it IMO. Go for the BW series if you must get Razer.


I agree.. been wanting that for some time..


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shane1244;11697258*
> Just picked up the BlackWiddow for $60 with my BestBuy Discount!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been missing out, Here I was thinking that the whole mechanical keyboard thing was a big gimmick.. lmao! boy was I wrong! Its an absolute dream to type on in comparison to my Logitech G110 which I already loved...


60$ wow i'm so jealous! Nice pics!


----------



## Shane1244

Yeah, I was hoping to get the Ultimate for like $15 more, but we don't carry it.

Ill take better pictures tomorrow when theres some real light out.


----------



## ripster

Did you sell yourself the extended warranty?

I keed, I keed!


----------



## Shane1244

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11697543*
> Did you sell yourself the extended warranty?
> 
> I keed, I keed!


*****, The chick was like "would you li....: I was like "HELLLLL NO:







Then she needed photo ID that I worked there, while I was in my best buy uniform.. and had talked to her earlier in the break room...


----------



## Marin

I left my HHKB at my apartment so it looks like I'm going to be stuck using scissor switches for the next month. :\


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marin;11697594*
> I left my HHKB at my apartment so it looks like I'm going to be stuck using scissor switches for the next month. :\


Suddenly your avatar is extremely fitting.


----------



## james_ant

Nice to see pics of the Black Widow.

I was hoping to get some feedback about buying one. The reason I want the black widow ultimate is because the keys are dye sublimated.

People in other threads were saying that the 7G and the 6gv2 had problems with the printing on the keys wearing away after only months of use. Even if it started to wear away after a couple years this would really turn my off.

My only other consideration was the Das, which also has laser etched keys. I'm not sure what the quality is with the laser etching on that keyboard.

Can anyone give me some input regarding these keyboards? For now I'm just waiting for the Black Widow Ultimate to come in stock somewhere, and if the reviews are good I will probably buy one.

EDIT: oh ya my other option if the printing on the keys wearing off is an issue, is to get the Das without printing on the keys.


----------



## Ikrin

Laser etching should not wear out easily. Dye sublimation definitely gives a more defined look and you won't feel the letters like you would for laser etching, at least until the keys wore down on the lasered keycaps. Where did you hear that the BW keys used dye-sublimation for printing?


----------



## ripster

The key reference here now includes the Black Widow keys.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11705320*
> The key reference here now includes the Black Widow keys.


Who's using _who's_ pics now?


----------



## ripster

Haha! I figure once Geekhackers post a pic in the forum and I attribute I'm all right - do it all the time with other Geekhackers. If not no biggie I can remove.

Plus, I never said you couldn't use mine!


----------



## webwit

LOL at the copyright/attribution fights. Seems that the Eternal September still applies to some people here. What is this, is this your first hobby shared on the Internet or something? I won't elaborate, you'll find out sooner or later and taste the irrelevancy of your efforts, which is usually a negative exponential factor of the size of the related watermark.


----------



## ripster

Hey, don't be a spoilsport.

I haven't been able to talk to Manyak in this thread this much in AGES!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11708087*
> Hey, don't be a spoilsport.
> 
> I haven't been able to talk to Manyak in this thread this much in AGES!


Y'know, it is possible to send him a private message when you want to talk to him about something.


----------



## ripster

I do all the time but it's just not the same.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11706893*
> Haha! I figure once Geekhackers post a pic in the forum and I attribute I'm all right - do it all the time with other Geekhackers. If not no biggie I can remove.
> 
> Plus, I never said you couldn't use mine!


lol nah it's cool, I figured I'd just bust your chops


----------



## ripster

See!

Much more fun like this.








(in honor of dear departed lmnop)


----------



## Azuremen

Aww, you guys are getting along so great now.

But yeah figured I'd lend a shot since I've got a camera and have a BW laying around. I should probably pull some keys of the Kinesis and provide those as well, even if they are all crazy as hell.


----------



## Munkypoo7

Since this thread is super active, I thought I'd ask something here









On my previous keyboard, my WASD cluster got... fluffy... for a lack of better words [it was a rubber dome style], guess it was due to over usage? I'm not sure...

Anywho, my question, will this ever happen to a mechanical keyboard, ie those with Blues?

I assume not, but it's just another irrational fear I'd like cleared up


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Munkypoo7*


Since this thread is super active, I thought I'd ask something here









On my previous keyboard, my WASD cluster got... fluffy... for a lack of better words [it was a rubber dome style], guess it was due to over usage? I'm not sure...

Anywho, my question, will this ever happen to a mechanical keyboard, ie those with Blues?

I assume not, but it's just another irrational fear I'd like cleared up










It's definitely not going to happen. The reason why it happened with the rubber domes is because the rubber is just physically worn out. But with high quality mechanical switches like the Cherry MX series, it's something you'll never notice (at least not like this). Plus, it takes significantly longer for good mechanical switches to begin to feel even _somewhat_ worn.

Now, some people might correct me and say that the Cherry MX Blues do wear out because they're more complex than Browns or Blacks. Yeah, ok that's true. But we are comparing them to rubber domes here, and the difference is _massive_! At least it feels like a massive difference to me.


----------



## Munkypoo7

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


It's definitely not going to happen. The reason why it happened with the rubber domes is because the rubber is just physically worn out. But with high quality mechanical switches like the Cherry MX series, it's something you'll never notice (at least not like this). Plus, it takes significantly longer for good mechanical switches to begin to feel even _somewhat_ worn.

Now, some people might correct me and say that the Cherry MX Blues do wear out because they're more complex than Browns or Blacks. Yeah, ok that's true. But we are comparing them to rubber domes here, and the difference is _massive_! At least it feels like a massive difference to me.


Awesome, sounds good, thanks TwoCables


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Munkypoo7*


Awesome, sounds good, thanks TwoCables










So, so, so, so, so which keyboard might you get?


----------



## Ikrin

Get a Filco!!...Oh wait...


----------



## james_ant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


Laser etching should not wear out easily. Dye sublimation definitely gives a more defined look and you won't feel the letters like you would for laser etching, at least until the keys wore down on the lasered keycaps. Where did you hear that the BW keys used dye-sublimation for printing?


Ya I guess I was mistaken. Thats so lame though that they charge so much extra when they don't even put and more effort into the printing method.

I cancelled my order, really there is no point to paying extra for the ultimate. I guess I'll just wait a bit for reviews, after all it did just come out.

EDIT: I am now looking at getting a Das Model S Silent for 124$, I figure its worth the price more than razer.


----------



## Munkypoo7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11713120*
> So, so, so, so, so which keyboard might you get?


Oh uber late response ftl rofl

Just wondering about my BlackWidow Ultimate with t3h uber flashy lites of seizure mode.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Munkypoo7;11719443*
> Oh uber late response ftl rofl
> 
> Just wondering about my BlackWidow Ultimate with t3h uber flashy lites of seizure mode.


Oh. I see what happened now. You see, my brain broke down yesterday so I was using a loaner while it was getting repaired. But I got my brain back just a few minutes ago so that shouldn't happen again.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *james_ant*


Ya I guess I was mistaken. Thats so lame though that they charge so much extra when they don't even put and more effort into the printing method.

I cancelled my order, really there is no point to paying extra for the ultimate. I guess I'll just wait a bit for reviews, after all it did just come out.

EDIT: I am now looking at getting a Das Model S Silent for 124$, I figure its worth the price more than razer.


If you are a student, I would e-mail Das about a discount coupon. Other than that, I would recommend the Xarmor U9BL, if you wanted some inputs on the board, as well as lighting. Lighting, though, is secondary, as it can be turned off, anyway. Depends on whether you want browns or blues.


----------



## Vitaminx

Is the only point in getting a PS/2 keyboard over a USB keyboard the fact that all the keys you press will register? Where as on a USB keyboard only 6 will register. Or is there more to it than that?


----------



## thiru

That's about it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vitaminx;11720559*
> Is the only point in getting a PS/2 keyboard over a USB keyboard the fact that all the keys you press will register? Where as on a USB keyboard only 6 will register. Or is there more to it than that?


Typically, the only keyboards that get N-Key Rollover through PS/2 are those keyboards that actually have it as one of the features. Otherwise, it can be 2KRO, 6KRO, etc.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Typically, the only keyboards that get N-Key Rollover through PS/2 are those keyboards that actually have it as one of the features. Otherwise, it can be 2KRO, 6KRO, etc.


This. ^

And technically, you're not buying a PS/2 keyboard. You're buying a keyboard that has the diodes for NKRO, and thus, has such a feature accessible through a PS/2 adapter. Although, the Xarmor might be one of the few that has a cable split between USB and PS/2. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


This. ^

And technically, you're not buying a PS/2 keyboard. You're buying a keyboard that has the diodes for NKRO, and thus, has such a feature accessible through a PS/2 adapter. Although, the Xarmor might be one of the few that has a cable split between USB and PS/2. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)


That makes it sound like if you have the NKRO diodes your keyboard will work with ps/2 adapters, which is not always the case







.


----------



## Vitaminx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Typically, the only keyboards that get N-Key Rollover through PS/2 are those keyboards that actually have it as one of the features. Otherwise, it can be 2KRO, 6KRO, etc.


Ah well I was just deciding between ordering the PS/2 interface or the USB interface of the Deck Legend. So was wondering if PS/2 really is superior to USB or if there truly is a minimal distinction between the two.


----------



## Crazy9000

If you want more then 6 keys at once, you need to get ps/2. Otherwise, get USB







.


----------



## Manyak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vitaminx;11721046*
> Ah well I was just deciding between ordering the PS/2 interface or the USB interface of the Deck Legend. So was wondering if PS/2 really is superior to USB or if there truly is a minimal distinction between the two.


PS/2 allows for >6 keys, and has a total latency of 0.6ms. 1000Hz USB has a polling latency of 1ms, and then tack on however much time is needed for the actual transfer (which I never calculated, but it's there).

So PS/2 wins on both counts.


----------



## Kamakazi

So I know I used to post in here quite a bit when looking for a new keyboard. I finally ended up just going with this since I got it cheap. Not a mechanical, but it works for now.


----------



## Vitaminx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


PS/2 allows for >6 keys, and has a total latency of 0.6ms. 1000Hz USB has a polling latency of 1ms, and then tack on however much time is needed for the actual transfer (which I never calculated, but it's there).

So PS/2 wins on both counts.


Yeah I get that it is superior. However aren't there two drawbacks? One being you can't program macros on a PS/2 Interfaced Keyboard and the other being that PS/2 will eventually die out. I mean aren't computer manufacturers making more and more motherboards without that interface? Or am I wrong there? That would be my biggest concern if I buy that interface. And another thing that comes up is, is it true that you can't unplug a PS/2 interface from the port while the PC is on?

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=USB+versus+PS+2


----------



## Tator Tot

Very few boards lack atleast a PS/2 Keyboard + Mouse combo port. 
PS/2 ports are not disappearing from Motherboards.

As for the Macro programing, you can have a Keyboard have a PS/2 & USB connection coming from it with the USB just being for the Macro's.

It'd work well on most boards as most motherboards are 1 PS/2 Combo port & 2 USB 2.0 Ports at the top of the motherboard.


----------



## Crazy9000

You can unplug the ps/2 keyboard while PC is on. It's just usually after you turn the PC on, you can't plug in a ps/2 keyboard, as it won't be detected until you reboot.

As for the port not appearing on motherboards, I haven't seen this yet. However, they have started doing combo ports that do either keyboard or mouse, and I'm sure eventually the ps/2 port will be phased out all together.

You can do macro's with software, so who cares about them







.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


So I know I used to post in here quite a bit when looking for a new keyboard. I finally ended up just going with this since I got it cheap. Not a mechanical, but it works for now.











I've always liked the look of those and the form factor but heard they flex a lot.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


That makes it sound like if you have the NKRO diodes your keyboard will work with ps/2 adapters, which is not always the case







.


Well, if they have the diodes, and the native offering is a USB cable, then..., that would make the manufacturer rather dumb for not including the capability to have NKRO through a PS/2 adapter if it's an advertised feature. I really don't see why it wouldn't work if the diodes are there.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


I've always liked the look of those and the form factor but heard they flex a lot.


Doesn't seem to flex much for me, but I am a very light typer, so I wouldn't notice.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


Well, if they have the diodes, and the native offering is a USB cable, then..., that would make the manufacturer rather dumb for not including the capability to have NKRO through a PS/2 adapter if it's an advertised feature. I really don't see why it wouldn't work if the diodes are there.


Well, the keyboard supporting ps/2 adapters has nothing to do with the diodes for NKRO. Most boards either have 2-3 key rollover, or support NKRO and are just limited by the USB driver.


----------



## ripster

This USB PS/2 thing is sure complicated.

In any case back to this.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kamakazi;11722145*












I have this coming from DealExtreme and am interested in checking out the layout. Scissor switches I find fine for portable applications. I'm a bit worried since it may not be as sturdy as an Apple Aluminum but the layout, wired part, the form factor, and lightness are all plusses for me.

I prefer arrow keys so I'm hoping this is a $275 Happy Hacking Keyboard killer for only $18 (shipped on a ACTUAL slow boat from China).


----------



## KipH

But what is it Rip?? Irocks has a nice aluminimimum one but it was usb only so I did not get it







I could use a new board for travel with my EeePC. The keys on it are just to small


----------



## ripster

iRocks is too big for my Laptop bag.


----------



## webwit

Are we posting mini keyboards?


----------



## ripster

USB only. They aren't going to like that keyboard here.


----------



## webwit

It is USB.

I like this one too.


----------



## gonX

Cat key? Does that convert whatever you type in to lolcat?


----------



## ripster

Damn Webwit. Just when I thought I've seen them all....


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;11727050*
> Cat key?


I'm sure there's a bad Unix joke to be made here.


----------



## webwit

Some guy who made his own TRON keyboard.


----------



## Kamakazi

I have to say, after all the bad things said about wireless I haven't noticed a single instance where it has affected my typing.


----------



## Crazy9000

It's gaming people complain about, not typing







. Although I doubt the latency is even high enough to really affect gaming much either.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;11727620*
> It's gaming people complain about, not typing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Although I doubt the latency is even high enough to really affect gaming much either.


It really comes down to those times when you have signal drop outs which normally happen when you have low battery.


----------



## ripster

It's kinda like PS/2 versus USB latency. Way overblown IMHO when you got Windows to clog it up.


----------



## gonX

My grandparents has a wireless Logitech keyboard which has noticeable delay. On the other hand I've used plenty of wireless mice that did not have any noticeable delay.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vitaminx*


Ah well I was just deciding between ordering the PS/2 interface or the USB interface of the Deck Legend. So was wondering if PS/2 really is superior to USB or if there truly is a minimal distinction between the two.


If the PS/2 version you are looking at features NKRO, then it would be my personal choice to buy that one because of the peace of mind it provides. But if you would get greater peace of mind from getting the USB version, then definitely get the USB version.

So, it might be what's the most important to you.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vitaminx*


And another thing that comes up is, is it true that you can't unplug a PS/2 interface from the port while the PC is on?


Here's how it works:

While the computer is off, plug the PS/2 keyboard in.
While the computer is on, you can unplug that PS/2 keyboard and plug it back in and continue using it, but then it will feel like the keyboard control panel settings reverted back to the default settings. So, open the keyboard control panel, click one of the horizontal sliders (or move it away from your preferred setting and then back again). This enables the Apply button. Once the Apply button is enabled, click it and then you're back in business. So, the goal is to just do whatever it takes to enable the Apply button.
But if you were to plug in the PS/2 keyboard after Windows has already loaded, then Windows needs to be restarted for the sake of the driver.
So it can behave similarly to USB once the computer has been turned on with the keyboard plugged in, but a PS/2 device cannot be plugged in and then used right away while Windows is running. It's almost the only difference.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


Doesn't seem to flex much for me, but I am a very light typer, so I wouldn't notice.


That's what I said about the Razer Lycosa, but then I intentionally picked it up and tried to bend it. I found that it was indeed very flexible and it felt like a cheap toy. It even made a bunch of plastic creaking sounds. It was very cheap-sounding, and it even felt like I could break it in half if I really wanted to. But the Filco Majestouch that I own is basically the opposite: I can't flex it, nor can I get any plastic creaking sounds out of it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Well, the keyboard supporting ps/2 adapters has nothing to do with the diodes for NKRO. Most boards either have 2-3 key rollover, or support NKRO and are just limited by the USB driver.


But the keyboards that feature NKRO usually come with an adapter. Now, the reason why I said "usually" is because I know that the Rosewill RK-9000 features NKRO but yet doesn't include an adapter. But when a USB > PS/2 adapter is used with the RK-9000, then it's basically identical to the Tactile Click NKRO.


----------



## Weasel555

Just got a mechanical a little while ago, Rosewill RK9000. I must say it is awesome! love it for gaming as well. my KDR in combat arms is anywhere between 2.0 and 3.0 on average during matches consistently!










thanks for all the info through this thread! I lurk alot on here


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But the keyboards that feature NKRO usually come with an adapter. Now, the reason why I said "usually" is because I know that the Rosewill RK-9000 features NKRO but yet doesn't include an adapter. But when a USB > PS/2 adapter is used with the RK-9000, then it's basically identical to the Tactile Click NKRO.


My point is, not all USB keyboards work with the ps/2 adapter. Even some keyboards that have NKRO diodes.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Weasel555*


Just got a mechanical a little while ago, Rosewill RK9000. I must say it is awesome! love it for gaming as well. my KDR in combat arms is anywhere between 2.0 and 3.0 on average during matches consistently!

thanks for all the info through this thread! I lurk alot on here










Damn. Nice choice! That's all I can say about that!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


My point is, not all USB keyboards work with the ps/2 adapter. Even some keyboards that have NKRO diodes.


Which NKRO boards don't work with a USB to PS/2 adapter?


----------



## Vitaminx

@ TwoCables - Ok, I just gave in and purchased the PS/2 version of the Deck. The only things that were holding me back before was myself thinking that it would be phased out eventually from MOBO's. But as most people said on here, they don't think that's going to happen, at least not for a while.


----------



## ripster

It WILL take a while.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Damn. Nice choice! That's all I can say about that!

Which NKRO boards don't work with a USB to PS/2 adapter?


 Deck Legend USB, PFU Happy Hacking Keyboard, Topre RealForce, Matias Tactile Pro, Cherry Corp Raptor K1. Source.


----------



## TwoCables

Vitaminx:

I think that by the time you are no longer able to use the PS/2 connector, you'll be able to use a PS/2 to USB adapter and even still get NKRO. I mean, I think by the time this happens, it may be no different. Like, boards that feature NKRO will work just the same over USB as they do/did over PS/2.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Deck Legend USB, PFU Happy Hacking Keyboard, Topre RealForce, Matias Tactile Pro, Cherry Corp Raptor K1. Source.











But "NKRO" is not a listed feature for any of these boards.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Funny enough, I think my favorite gaming keyboard is the Filco Blue Tenkeyless!

I've used Brown 10less, HHKB Pro2, Realforce 86u.

I think my favorite would be an HHKB Pro2 if it had 55g all evenly weighted.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But "NKRO" is not a listed feature for any of these boards.


They would have it if they used a ps/2 natively, or supported the adapter. For example, the Deck is the exact same board as the ps/2 version, just with a USB connector instead. It has the NKRO diodes still.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


That's what I said about the Razer Lycosa, but then I intentionally picked it up and tried to bend it. I found that it was indeed very flexible and it felt like a cheap toy. It even made a bunch of plastic creaking sounds. It was very cheap-sounding, and it even felt like I could break it in half if I really wanted to. But the Filco Majestouch that I own is basically the opposite: I can't flex it, nor can I get any plastic creaking sounds out of it.


And if I hit my monitor with a hammer, it will stop working, therefore it must be a cheap toy.

Yep, that is the same logic.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


And if I hit my monitor with a hammer, it will stop working, therefore it must be a cheap toy.

Yep, that is the same logic.


Get a CRT you noob. It should work after you hit it with a hammer still, unless you do it super hard and break the thick glass.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


They would have it if they used a ps/2 natively, or supported the adapter. For example, the Deck is the exact same board as the ps/2 version, just with a USB connector instead. It has the NKRO diodes still.


If I remember correctly, then I believe that a board needs to have a special PS/2 controller inside of it for it to function through a USB to PS/2 adapter regardless of whether or not the board itself features NKRO. I mean, I think I remember something about how that in order for a USB keyboard to function through a USB to PS/2 adapter, then it needed to have been purposefully designed for it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


And if I hit my monitor with a hammer, it will stop working, therefore it must be a cheap toy.

Yep, that is the same logic.


Seriously? Is this your final answer?

That's the dumbest analogy I have ever seen. Period. Don't try to make a comparison until you know the difference for yourself, or else you'll just fail as you did here. I can't even begin to find a way to explain why this analogy is as dumb as it is.







That's how dumb it is. I mean, it's so dumb, I'm at a loss for words.


----------



## Vitaminx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Vitaminx:

I think that by the time you are no longer able to use the PS/2 connector, you'll be able to use a PS/2 to USB adapter and even still get NKRO. I mean, I think by the time this happens, it may be no different. Like, boards that feature NKRO will work just the same over USB as they do/did over PS/2.

But "NKRO" is not a listed feature for any of these boards.


Probably so. Either way I doubt I'll be upgrading my hardware anytime soon.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vitaminx*


Probably so. Either way I doubt I'll be upgrading my hardware anytime soon.


Well, the keyboard will last 15-20 years.


----------



## Kamakazi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Seriously? Is this your final answer?

That's the dumbest analogy I have ever seen. Period. Don't try to make a comparison until you know the difference for yourself.


I did take it a bit to the extreme, but it is still the same type of test you are doing on the keyboard. Taking something that has a specific purpose, that is intended to be used a certain way, and abusing it in a way that it is in no way guaranteed to perform well in.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kamakazi*


I did take it a bit to the extreme, but it is still the same type of test you are doing on the keyboard. Taking something that has a specific purpose, that is intended to be used a certain way, and abusing it in a way that it is in no way guaranteed to perform well in.


Wrong, actually. You see, I am simultaneously comparing it to my Majestouch. Prior to acquiring the Majestouch (which is my first and only mechanical keyboard), that test didn't make me go "OMG WHAT A PIECE OF CRAP!" because I still didn't know any better. When I picked up the Lycosa and tried to bend it, I kinda said out loud, _"Ok. Yeah. So what? What's the big deal here?"_ But once I acquired the Majestouch, I finally understood. It's a HUGE difference.  It's a difference you yourself are unable to understand for the very same reasons.

So again: you are literally incapable of understanding right now because you still don't have a mechanical keyboard. I was the same way. And y'know what? This isn't a put-down; it just is the way it is. It's really not a big deal. What you have is just pure, honest ignorance.


----------



## Vitaminx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Well, the keyboard will last 15-20 years.










True enough. I mainly want to see all this fuss over the PS/2 interface for myself. I can always exchange it during the 30 day period for a USB one if needed. And hopefully my system lasts a good 5 + years before its considered outdated


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


If I remember correctly, then I believe that a board needs to have a special PS/2 controller inside of it for it to function through a USB to PS/2 adapter regardless of whether or not the board itself features NKRO. I mean, I think I remember something about how that in order for a USB keyboard to function through a USB to PS/2 adapter, then it needed to have been purposefully designed for it.


That is correct. Therefore, just because a board has NKRO diodes, does not mean it will work with a ps/2 adapter







. Its controller must also support ps/2.

In Deck's case, they have two separate controllers as far as I can tell, which I find a bit odd but whatever.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vitaminx*


True enough. I mainly want to see all this fuss over the PS/2 interface for myself. I can always exchange it during the 30 day period for a USB one if needed. And hopefully my system lasts a good 5 + years before its considered outdated










What? It's already outdated. Didn't you know that 775 is dead?









(says the guy who loves his own sig rig)

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


That is correct. Therefore, just because a board has NKRO diodes, does not mean it will work with a ps/2 adapter







. Its controller must also support ps/2.

In Deck's case, they have two separate controllers as far as I can tell, which I find a bit odd but whatever.


Yep. That's why I made the mention that if one of the features includes "NKRO" or "N-Key Rollover", then I believe it stands to reason that it also includes this controller. But that's based on what I've seen so far and nothing else.


----------



## ripster

My favorite analogy is "CRTs and PS/2 keyboards, a marriage made in heaven."

Oh, and the Sidewinder X4. NKRO but doesn't work with the Purple Dongle.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


My favorite analogy is "CRTs and PS/2 keyboards, a marriage made in heaven."

Oh, and the Sidewinder X4. NKRO but doesn't work with the Purple Dongle.


That keyboard does not have NKRO. It's more like...... 26KRO or whatever it is.

And it's not a dongle. It's an adapter. Although, "dongle" is a funny word.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kamakazi;11733157*
> And if I hit my monitor with a hammer, it will stop working, therefore it must be a cheap toy.
> 
> Yep, that is the same logic.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;11733170*
> Get a CRT you noob. It should work after you hit it with a hammer still, unless you do it super hard and break the thick glass.


Woot. CRTs ftw. Gameserver mod-1 Forum mod-0.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11733195*
> Seriously? Is this your final answer?
> 
> That's the dumbest analogy I have ever seen. Period. Don't try to make a comparison until you know the difference for yourself, or else you'll just fail as you did here. I can't even begin to find a way to explain why this analogy is as dumb as it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's how dumb it is. I mean, it's so dumb, I'm at a loss for words.


Ouch.


----------



## barrysgoods

Which keyboard would be better for Starcraft 2? A Cherry g80-3494 with cherry red switches, a happy hacking keyboard pro 2, or a filco tenkeyless brown switch?

thanks for all advice and suggestions.


----------



## ripster




----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Why is everyone so sure that that's a brown-switched keyboard? It's definitely clicky... I haven't heard Browns make that click sound... and the Filco Zero has the same color LEDs, so it could very easily be that.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;11734840*
> Why is everyone so sure that that's a brown-switched keyboard? It's definitely clicky... I haven't heard Browns make that click sound... and the Filco Zero has the same color LEDs, so it could very easily be that.


I think the biggest clue are the blue indicator LEDs.

But what you're hearing aren't clicks. That's the sound of him bottoming out the keys. That sound is described as "clacky".

My Tactile Click sounds exactly the same, except there are tiny mechanical click sounds on top of it. So my keyboard sounds the same, but crisper.

So, this is what I mean when I say that the difference in sound between the Tactile Click and Touch is small.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Hmmm. Guess I haven't heard enough people bottoming out on Browns, then...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;11734882*
> Hmmm. Guess I haven't heard enough people bottoming out on Browns, then...


And he's only _lightly_ bottoming out.

I admit that it does kinda sound clicky, but it could also be the camera's microphone. I've seen well over a hundred different YouTube videos of people typing on their Majestouch boards, and many of the ones of people typing on the Tactile Touch boards did sound a bit clicky like that.


----------



## TwoCables

Did/does the Filco Zero have the White ALPS? I mean, the more and more I listen to his board, the more and more I think that it sounds like mine, only....... _different_.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11734940*
> Did/does the Filco Zero have the White ALPS?


Yes.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;11734949*
> Yes.


Hmm....then either he got a hold of a Filco Zero and they're not saying so, or this camera's mic makes his keyboard sound a bit clicky.


----------



## TwoCables

The Filco logo is also very silver...

Y'know what, that has to be a Filco Zero. It is continually reminding me of the sound I fell in love with when I was watching Tactile Click videos.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11734998*
> Y'know what, that has to be a Filco Zero.


If it is, which, you know, I'm still sure it is, the Filco brown boards shortage would have been erroneous simply due to people not really paying enough attention.














But hey, we got Leopolds coming to EK, I think something good came of all this.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;11735029*
> If it is, which, you know, I'm still sure it is, the Filco brown boards shortage would have been erroneous simply due to people not really paying enough attention.


I have just confirmed for myself that it is a Filco Zero. Not only does the silver Filco logo give it away, and not only does its clicky sound give it away, but take a close look at his right Alt and right Ctrl keys and then compare them to this photo (and a few others that you can find):










Looks identical to me!


----------



## barrysgoods

so you think a filco brown would be better than say the cherry 3494? i kinda like the size of the cherry one.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11735040*
> I have just confirmed for myself that it is a Filco Zero. Not only does the silver Filco logo give it away, and not only does its clicky sound give it away, but take a close look at his right Alt and right Ctrl keys and then compare them to this photo (and a few others that you can find):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks identical to me!


It could be a Zero so that was a good find - I haven't seen that one on the Diatec site (JP layout only) and I agree with you the sound is Alpsy.

But the silver Filco label is also used on the full size Cherry Browns on the model that is NOT NKRO.









So it's still fuzzy unless FruitDealer ever fesses up and that would piss off his sponsors.


----------



## Azuremen

As a side note, not sure how related this is, but my NKRO Tenkeyless Filco has a Silver logo.

That or I really have lost my mind.

BTW, Ripster, I thought we resolved this issue on the FruitDealer's keyboard back with Fwiffo ages ago?


----------



## ripster

Don't think so. I first said it sounded like a Zero. Then I couldn't find one in that layout so said it's a Brown. Or something like that but it's never 100% unless you pull a key.

Stuff happens like that on the internet all the time. For the longest time Clickykeyboards listed IBM Model M keys as being doubleshots.

Groupthink.


----------



## TwoCables

But look closely at his right-side Alt and Ctrl keys. Do they look identical to that pic I found?


----------



## Azuremen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11735613*
> But look closely at his right-side Alt and Ctrl keys. Do they look identical to that pic I found?


Indeed they do. So once again back to the Zero idea.

Which means a bunch of kids at Teamliquid aren't going to be happy


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azuremen;11735732*
> Indeed they do. So once again back to the Zero idea.
> 
> Which means a bunch of kids at Teamliquid aren't going to be happy


rofl no doubt! But I guess one good thing that came out of this is that now tons of people finally got a mechanical keyboard.









So, does fruitdealer's sponsors say that he's using the Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch?


----------



## barrysgoods

What are the major difference between a brown and a zero?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barrysgoods;11735772*
> What are the major difference between a brown and a zero?


Filco Zero has Alps White copies (***kas, I believe), which are clicky and tactile.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barrysgoods;11735772*
> What are the major difference between a brown and a zero?


The switches. The Tactile Touch uses the Cherry MX Browns and the Zero uses White ALPS. The White ALPS are tactile and clicky while the Browns are tactile, but non-clicky.

*Edit:* Copies? Aw. That's lame.







Oh and just in case anyone is wondering: "***kas" is pronounced "foo-kahs". Like, "Kung Fu-kas".


----------



## Azuremen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11735756*
> rofl no doubt! But I guess one good thing that came out of this is that now tons of people finally got a mechanical keyboard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, does fruitdealer's sponsors say that he's using the Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch?


From what I am aware of, the sponsors aren't related to gaming peripherals for Team OGs, which is the team I believe he is currently with. I believe he was not sponsored back during GSL Season 1, so his sponsors at this point shouldn't have too much say on the keyboard.

Some teams are big on their sponsors though, like EG - all their players seem to use SteelSeries products.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azuremen;11735790*
> From what I am aware of, the sponsors aren't related to gaming peripherals for Team OGs, which is the team I believe he is currently with. I believe he was not sponsored back during GSL Season 1, so his sponsors at this point shouldn't have too much say on the keyboard.
> 
> Some teams are big on their sponsors though, like EG - all their players seem to use SteelSeries products.


Oh, alright then. Now I understand why it's so unclear as to which keyboard he really has (even though I think we figured it out).


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11735814*
> Oh, alright then. Now I understand why it's so unclear as to which keyboard he really has (even though I think we figured it out).


Well, like I said, some good came out of it... we got Leopolds coming to EK.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;11735817*
> Well, like I said, some good came out of it... we got Leopolds coming to EK.


That too! I was also saying that I'm glad that a ton of people finally replaced their rubber domes with Majestouch boards too!


----------



## barrysgoods

so i guess all i really need to know is which keyboard would be better for starcraft 2? a zero, or brown? thanks


----------



## ripster

The reason the Ctrl Alt looks like that is because it is lettered with Hangul (Korean).
http://kbdmania.net/images/shop/majestouch/maje-non-kr06.jpg
http://kbdmania.net/images/shop/majestouch/maje-non-kr04.jpg

Still could be a Cherry Brown. Could be a Zero.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barrysgoods;11735867*
> so i guess all i really need to know is which keyboard would be better for starcraft 2? a zero, or brown? thanks


Well, if you're American you're out of luck for either! At least with Filcos.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11735871*
> Still could be a Cherry Brown. Could be a Zero.


It definitely sounds like it has Alps. Bottoming out would be more of a "thunk" or "clunk", but that's a "tick tick tick", almost like Blues; except Majestouches with Blues use different LEDs, so it's not that, so it would be the Zero.

Edit; and TL already seems to be aware of this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=157888&currentpage=22#428


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11735886*
> Well, if you're American you're out of luck for either! At least with Filcos.


well they will come back in stock sooner or later... I really am not well versed in keyboards, which deck is gonna be better for the continuous rapid clicking for sc2? i feel like brown would be because there is no click? and a click kind of sucks if u are trying to hit the button 3 times in a row in a millisecond?


----------



## TwoCables

Ripster: can you remove the kbdmania photos, or maybe have them hosted somewhere else? For some reason, every single time a kbdmania image is posted, it makes the thread take about 100x longer to load for me. If I press Esc, it can mean that I end up missing some of the thread.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11735979*
> Ripster: can you remove the kbdmania photos, or maybe have them hosted somewhere else? For some reason, every single time a kbdmania image is posted, it makes the thread take about 100x longer to load for me. If I press Esc, it can mean that I end up missing some of the thread.


I didn't notice it with chrome, but yeah in steam the page just took forever to load.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barrysgoods;11735916*
> well they will come back in stock sooner or later... I really am not well versed in keyboards, which deck is gonna be better for the continuous rapid clicking for sc2? i feel like brown would be because there is no click? and a click kind of sucks if u are trying to hit the button 3 times in a row in a millisecond?


The Filco Majestouch boards are not going to be sold at EK anymore. However, he (Brian) does plan to bring in something better, like those Leopolds.

As for the click: why would it suck? Because of the sound?


----------



## barrysgoods

so the absolute only difference between the brown and zero is that the zero makes a noise when u press it?


----------



## ripster

Np. I'll link to it.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tWocAblEs*
> As for the click: why would it suck? Because of the sound?


I think he's refering to what he's heard about some people having issues with blues. That's only potentially the case with blue switches, any others shouldn't have that problem.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barrysgoods;11736005*
> so the absolute only difference between the brown and zero is that the zero makes a noise when u press it?


There's a difference in feel as well. And I imagine that since the Zero uses White ALPS _copies_, then it may not have as smooth of a key travel as genuine ALPS or Cherry MX switches. But I'm only able to go by what I've heard about the Black ALPS Copies in the ABS M1. The Black ALPS Copies are a tactile, but non-clicky switch, and are said to have more of a clunky key travel - almost like it sticks on the way down, but not really. I get the impression like it could be made from cheap plastic or something and therefore perhaps not as precise (or, less consistent from switch to switch).

If the White ALPS Copies feel anything like the Cherry MX Blues, then I can say that the White ALPS Copies (in the Filco Zero) should provide slightly more resistance, and should provide a little bit of a crisper, more precise feel when pressed. But don't quote me on this because I've never seen a description of what the White ALPS Copies feel like, nor have I seen a description of the genuine White ALPS.

The browns lean more towards a linear switch. The tactile feeling is still there, but it's less pronounced, and it provides less resistance than many mechanical switches. Also, the reset point is actually beneath the actuation point which makes this a great middle-ground switch between professional gaming and typing. But since fruitdealer seems to be using the Zero, I'd imagine that the Zero must be good for gaming too. heh
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11736007*
> Np. I'll link to it.


I owe you one, Ripster!


----------



## Tator Tot

I think over the last few posts in this thread we learned one thing:
Don't second guess yourself too much









Why hasn't someone just asked FD what keyboard he has?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;11736175*
> I think over the last few posts in this thread we learned one thing:
> Don't second guess yourself too much
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why hasn't someone just asked FD what keyboard he has?


Because he's intimidating.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;11736175*
> I think over the last few posts in this thread we learned one thing:
> Don't second guess yourself too much
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why hasn't someone just asked FD what keyboard he has?


Someone alluded to him having a sponser that offers competeing products, so he isn't allowed to. Not sure how true that is though.


----------



## Azuremen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;11736305*
> Someone alluded to him having a sponser that offers competeing products, so he isn't allowed to. Not sure how true that is though.


Hmm... Like I said earlier I don't think the OGs sponsors produce gaming devices, but I could be mistaken; this is going off liquipedia.

The sound those keys are making is like a less crisp Blue. Many have it sounds like Alps. Certainly doesn't seem like Browns, which is just the bottoming out sound and not as distinct in my opinion.


----------



## webwit

I like to flaunt my rare Filcos. You have to be careful with the Zeros though if you see one for sale. Both labeled XM. But you have the FKBN87Z/EB-Y and the FKBN87Z/EB, the first has the XM Alps clones, the second ***ka switches. You don't want to XMs, the ***kas are where it is at.










http://webwit.nl/input/filco/***ka/2.jpg

http://webwit.nl/input/filco/***ka/4.jpg

You need to find an old Korean lady and steal her social security number if you want those Alps RGB keycaps.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11736067*
> The Black ALPS Copies are a tactile, but non-clicky switch, and are said to have more of a clunky key travel - almost like it sticks on the way down, but not really. I get the impression like it could be made from cheap plastic or something and therefore perhaps not as precise (or, less consistent from switch to switch).


The problem with the Black Alps is that a) the tactility is mediocre and b) the tactile point is concentrated at the top of the action with very little pretravel. Combined with the fact that they're quite stiff (about 70g) you end up with a switch that bottoms out very hard. This makes typing on them slow, and I found they hurt my hands if I used them for prolonged periods.

The other thing about Black Alps is that the switch actually actuates before it hits the tactile point, which in a sense means that if you feel the tactility, you've already pressed the key too far down.
Quote:


> If the White ALPS Copies feel anything like the Cherry MX Blues, then I can say that the White ALPS Copies (in the Filco Zero) should provide slightly more resistance, and should provide a little bit of a crisper, more precise feel when pressed. But don't quote me on this because I've never seen a description of what the White ALPS Copies feel like, nor have I seen a description of the genuine White ALPS.


The complicated whites and blues are lighter than the blacks (about 60g) and are more tactile due to the design of the click leaf. You can tell that they are related to the Black Alps, but they feel more like a copy of the buckling spring, except less smooth and less tactile. I'm not sure if I'd rate them as well as the Blue Cherry switches, but they're certainly up there on my list of good keyboard switches.

The clone and simplified switches vary greatly in quality from borderline-unusable (XM) to ones that some prefer over the real thing (***ka, or Montereys, if Montereys can be considered a fake Alps switch)

The problem with the Alps and Cherry switches is that they're an originally linear design hacked to be tactile or clicky. This means that you get a decidedly artificial feeling tactility, but also there's problems that arise out of how the tactility is implemented. The Alps use a metal leaf that causes them to have no pre-travel and to bottom out hard. The Brown Cherry is little different to a linear switch in terms of feel. The Blues have a free-moving tactile element on the slider which gives the action pre-travel, but leads to the hysteresis problem.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11736067*
> The browns lean more towards a linear switch. The tactile feeling is still there, but it's less pronounced, and it provides less resistance than many mechanical switches. Also, the reset point is actually beneath the actuation point which makes this a great middle-ground switch between professional gaming and typing. But since fruitdealer seems to be using the Zero, I'd imagine that the Zero must be good for gaming too. heh


The reset point isn't below the actuation point. It's just above the actuation point, like all Cherry MX switches (cept for blues where it's much higher). Manyak's graph is false, check Cherry's PDF.

If what you said was true, then the switch would not "deactuate" if you hit the actuation and then let go.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11737659*
> The reset point isn't below the actuation point. It's just above the actuation point, like all Cherry MX switches (cept for blues where it's much higher). Manyak's graph is false, check Cherry's PDF.
> 
> If what you said was true, then the switch would not "deactuate" if you hit the actuation and then let go.


Based on what I've read, the way the switch feels when pressed makes it basically impossible to avoid surpassing the reset point during the downward stroke of the keypress. It's almost as if you're forced to go past it a little bit which is probably why it's a great middle ground between typing and gaming.

So, the reset point is indeed beneath the actuation point, but it sounds like the action (not actuation) of the switch almost makes it impossible to avoid going beneath the reset point - almost as if you're forced to go just beneath the reset point. I think this is why this switch is said to be perfectly fine for double-tapping.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11737839*
> Based on what I've read, the way the switch feels when pressed makes it basically impossible to avoid surpassing the reset point during the downward stroke of the keypress. It's almost as if you're forced to go past it a little bit which is probably why it's a great middle ground between typing and gaming.
> 
> So, the reset point is indeed beneath the actuation point, but it sounds like the action (not actuation) of the switch almost makes it impossible to avoid going beneath the reset point - almost as if you're forced to go just beneath the reset point. I think this is why this switch is said to be perfectly fine for double-tapping.


The reset point is *not* beneath the actuation point. Manyak's graph is wrong.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11737995*
> The reset point is *not* beneath the actuation point. Manyak's graph is wrong.


Ok cool, that's fine with me. So how can I prove it to others when I tell them?

(by the way, that is not Manyak's graph - that's taken straight from the Cherry MX series catalog PDF)


----------



## KipH

I got bad news. I went back to that store, ya know, to buy a USB stick. So I went over to the keyboard section where they have the Filco's lined up in a row, like Duckies







I love tapping on the blue, brown and black just to see how they sound. So I asked the guy if they have 10key less. He said no. Then looked around for a second and reached down and pulled out 10! 5 in black and 5 in Brown (I think). Group buy I may swing a discount but they are sticker at 3200NT ($106.845 right now). So let me know who wants and how many


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11738154*
> Ok cool, that's fine with me. So how can I prove it to others when I tell them?
> 
> (by the way, that is not Manyak's graph - that's taken straight from the Cherry MX series catalog PDF)


Check Cherry's MX switches catalogue, the MX with pressure point ergonomic. That's the correct graph.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69;11738191*
> I got bad news. I went back to that store, ya know, to buy a USB stick. So I went over to the keyboard section where they have the Filco's lined up in a row, like Duckies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love tapping on the blue, brown and black just to see how they sound. So I asked the guy if they have 10key less. He said no. Then looked around for a second and reached down and pulled out 10! 5 in black and 5 in Brown (I think). Group buy I may swing a discount but they are sticker at 3200NT ($106.845 right now). So let me know who wants and how many


So, are you saying that you have 5 Linear Force boards, and 5 Tactile Touches?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11738200*
> Check Cherry's MX switches catalogue, the MX with pressure point ergonomic. That's the correct graph.


It's the same graph.

http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/pdf/mx_cat.pdf (page 2)

*Edit:* Ha, I see. Someone put the wrong words on the original graph. Low-paid Data Entry workers...


----------



## ripster

Kinda looping back to that Fruit Dealer Filco Cherry BROWN I posted earlier.

I went through the threads at Geekhack and now remember why we are certain it's a Brown (despite sounding like a Zero - cheap camcorder microphones).









Sometimes the "Hive Mind" does work.
[ame="



]

And I think it's hilarious that his keyboard is the 2KRO model (as shown by the Silver Logo versus Gold Logo).

I've said this before but it's like any sport. True PROs can play with a 2x4 and drive 200 yards, hit a home run, or win Starcraft tournaments.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11738451*
> And I think it's hilarious that his keyboard is the 2KRO model (as shown by the Silver Logo versus Gold Logo).
> 
> I've said this before but it's like any sport. True PROs can play with a 2x4 and drive 200 yards, hit a home run, or win Starcraft tournaments.


That's because you only need 1 key + 2 modifiers to play Starcraft 2. There really isn't anything you can do that needs NKRO or even 2KRO.


----------



## KipH

Ah, silver and gold labels on them for NKRO. I forgot to look for that. Dang it, now I have to go back









And I don't know the actual model name of the keyboard, the box and all documents are in Chinese. Some of the boards probably have Chinese on the keys too, under the English. I will have to loo at that as well. Woot


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11738154*
> Ok cool, that's fine with me. So how can I prove it to others when I tell them?
> 
> (by the way, that is not Manyak's graph - that's taken straight from the Cherry MX series catalog PDF)


Send them a Black Alps switch in the mail.


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


That's because you only need 1 key + 2 modifiers to play Starcraft 2. There really isn't anything you can do that needs NKRO or even 2KRO.


Same goes for typing, but yet I still end up having multiple keys depressed from time to time.


----------



## james_ant

Just thought I'd put it out there that I just ordered a Black Widow normal. It was open box so it was only 72$ before tax and shipping.

I decided I don't really want Razer's 40$ back lighting, extra mic and usb port (which would be as useless as the back lighting), not to mention the coating that would most likely wear away after a month anyway.

Anyway I think it was a good buy, you cant get very many half decent mechanical keyboards for under 100$ shipped.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;11740586*
> Same goes for typing, but yet I still end up having multiple keys depressed from time to time.


Why are you comparing typing to playing Starcraft? you don't even use 2 hands on the keyboard in Starcraft.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Kinda looping back to that Fruit Dealer Filco Cherry BROWN I posted earlier.

I went through the threads at Geekhack and now remember why we are certain it's a Brown (despite sounding like a Zero - cheap camcorder microphones).









Sometimes the "Hive Mind" does work.





And I think it's hilarious that his keyboard is the 2KRO model (as shown by the Silver Logo versus Gold Logo).

I've said this before but it's like any sport. True PROs can play with a 2x4 and drive 200 yards, hit a home run, or win Starcraft tournaments.


That's the last time I 2nd-guess my first instincts when it comes to this. I was right the first time when I heard it for the first time earlier today.









Damn microphones.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


Ah, silver and gold labels on them for NKRO. I forgot to look for that. Dang it, now I have to go back









And I don't know the actual model name of the keyboard, the box and all documents are in Chinese. Some of the boards probably have Chinese on the keys too, under the English. I will have to loo at that as well. Woot










It goes like this:

Tactile Click = Cherry MX Blues
Tactile Touch = Cherry MX Browns
Linear Force = Cherry MX Blacks










Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Send them a Black Alps switch in the mail.


Why? Do you know what we were talking about there?


----------



## Ikrin

I think he knows what switches they were, but just didn't pay attention to whether they were NKRO.

Anyway, keep us updated, Kip.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


I think he knows what switches they were, but just didn't pay attention to whether they were NKRO.

Anyway, keep us updated, Kip.


He said that he didn't know what the actual model names are. So, I figured I'd just toss that in there to hopefully help. It's very common for people to not know. Have you noticed how it's far more likely for someone to say "Filco with Cherry Blues" or something instead of "Tactile Click"?


----------



## Ikrin

Well, in all honesty, I think we can agree that knowing which board has what switch and whether it features NKRO is more important than some nomenclature.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikrin;11743747*
> Well, in all honesty, I think we can agree that knowing which board has what switch and whether it features NKRO is more important than some nomenclature.


But in this case, knowing these model names makes it significantly easier to tell them apart without having to rely on Google Translate.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11742205*
> Why? Do you know what we were talking about there?


My bad. Meant to say Brown Cherry.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;11744079*
> My bad. Meant to say Brown Cherry.


ha.


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11741113*
> Why are you comparing typing to playing Starcraft? you don't even use 2 hands on the keyboard in Starcraft.


well in SCBW you do, but not in sc2 really.


----------



## Azuremen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11738451*
> Kinda looping back to that Fruit Dealer Filco Cherry BROWN I posted earlier.
> 
> I went through the threads at Geekhack and now remember why we are certain it's a Brown (despite sounding like a Zero - cheap camcorder microphones).


Why is he playing as Protoss? Can we get a link to this rest of these because I find it very odd we'd have a picture of FruitDealer at qualifiers watching Probes build in a replay, and he certainly doesn't play Protoss.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azuremen;11745368*
> Why is he playing as Protoss? Can we get a link to this rest of these because I find it very odd we'd have a picture of FruitDealer at qualifiers watching Probes build in a replay, and he certainly doesn't play Protoss.


Must be Tester lol


----------



## Crazy9000

Also, why would he take the \ key off?


----------



## Azuremen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;11745462*
> Also, why would he take the \ key off?


Some people just don't like it? Really though, a lot of old BW pros have tons of keys missing from their keyboards to reduce the odds of them miss hitting a key, or as reference so they can feel where their hands are, etc on the board.

But BW also had its hotkeys all over the board, so the left hand would do a lot more flying around.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azuremen;11745368*
> Why is he playing as Protoss? Can we get a link to this rest of these because I find it very odd we'd have a picture of FruitDealer at qualifiers watching Probes build in a replay, and he certainly doesn't play Protoss.


is tester, not F-dealer.


----------



## candy_van

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69;11738191*
> Then looked around for a second and reached down and pulled out 10! 5 in black and 5 in Brown (I think). Group buy I may swing a discount but they are sticker at 3200NT ($106.845 right now). So let me know who wants and how many


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11738254*
> So, are you saying that you have 5 Linear Force boards, and 5 Tactile Touches?


+1

You have my attention Kip


----------



## Jeffro422

After just a few games of SC2 with my new Blackwidow keyboard I removed the bottom 2 macro keys to reduce clicking them instead of ctrl and shift.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fssbzz;11745516*
> is tester, not F-dealer.


one of the top toss in the world. f dealer was playing zerg in another vid/pic with filco.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11742482*
> He said that he didn't know what the actual model names are. So, I figured I'd just toss that in there to hopefully help. It's very common for people to not know. Have you noticed how it's far more likely for someone to say "Filco with Cherry Blues" or something instead of "Tactile Click"?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikrin;11743747*
> Well, in all honesty, I think we can agree that knowing which board has what switch and whether it features NKRO is more important than some nomenclature.


From what I've seen many people don't say tactile click because other than the "switch" vs "dome" they really don't know what kind of behaviour each switch has. Many don't know other significant differences between mechanical and dome.


----------



## Azuremen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11745632*
> one of the top toss in the world.


Yes, he is.

But we are tying to solve what keyboard FruitDealer uses


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;11745632*
> one of the top toss in the world.


He didn't win any GSLs. Your argument is invalid.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azuremen;11745368*
> Why is he playing as Protoss? Can we get a link to this rest of these because I find it very odd we'd have a picture of FruitDealer at qualifiers watching Probes build in a replay, and he certainly doesn't play Protoss.


I knew there was something weird and un-damning about that photo. I kept wondering "How do we know that IS FD?" but didn't pick at that specifically very much.


----------



## fssbzz

here is tester playing.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-d7jKpei8g[/ame[/URL]]


----------



## KipH

All the 10key less keyboards there are nkro








If I buy 10 he will give me a small discount, not enough to bother but:
Price is $3200NT plus shipping. I will ship if I get 10 sold. PM me.

He has a mix of bigger ones, some nkey some not, some with Chinese some with out. So if you want one of them I can count it as one of the 10, he don't care. But you can't tell anyone where they came from. Price is supposed top be fixed.


----------



## barrysgoods

So you can get me a full size filco brown for $110? is that nkro or non nkro?


----------



## KipH

Full size were about the same price. I think $3000nt for non and $3400 for full KRO.
And they have blue, Black or yummy tea colour (brown)
And he said he could get the non Nkey 10key less filcos for $2800, but I don't think he can








But for full size ones I suggest the PC home $20 shipping deal would be cheaper.


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69;11749642*
> Full size were about the same price. I think $3000nt for non and $3400 for full KRO.
> And they have blue, Black or yummy tea colour (brown)
> And he said he could get the non Nkey 10key less filcos for $2800, but I don't think he can
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But for full size ones I suggest the PC home $20 shipping deal would be cheaper.


cause on pchome it was 3690, so maybe i'll just get in on your 10 keyboard order?


----------



## barrysgoods

Here's a screen grab of FruitDealer from just a couple weeks ago, not sure if you can glean anything from it, but some of you are crazy good at spotting things.


----------



## ripster

He has girly fingers.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

FruitDealer uses a Filco with MX browns and NKRO. We've known this for a while; it caused a run on Filcos that almost depleted everyone's stock, and that's why EK is switching to Leopold.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


FruitDealer uses a Filco with MX browns and NKRO.


That's the issue here; how can you be sure of that? What we've seen/heard so far in the past day suggests it's a Zero.


----------



## fssbzz

he's shirt. Nkeyboard sticker.
either black switches or brown.
there's a sticker on top of the arrow keys too.
and ISO enter keys.
he is using this one.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

So he's not even sticking to just using one keyboard?


----------



## fssbzz

in GSL, the keyboard are sponsored by Skydigital/Nkeyboard.

this is qualifier match

  
 



  



 
 he's using filco.
im not sure what switch is that. lol it doesn't sound like brown to me.
but the blue led on the kb is brown filco.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

I know, that's where this all started; from the visual and audio information that video provides, TwoCables and I deduced that it's the Filco Zero (simplified white Alps copies [***kas]), which uses the same color LEDs as the Tactile Touch.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


I know, that's where this all started; from the visual and audio information that video provides, TwoCables and I deduced that it's the Filco Zero (simplified white Alps copies [***kas]).


ya, same as what i was thinking too.
the keyboard sound like Alps switches.


----------



## ripster

Lol. No wonder this thread is so long.

On most forums the Vbulletin Bots start autoshutdown sequence in 1, 2, 3......

Anyway people should use Filcos. Browns if you like the chubby guy. Maybe White Alps Simplified Type 1 (***kas) if you like the guy with girlyman fingers.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69;11749483*
> All the 10key less keyboards there are nkro
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I buy 10 he will give me a small discount, not enough to bother but:
> Price is $3200NT plus shipping. I will ship if I get 10 sold. PM me.
> 
> He has a mix of bigger ones, some nkey some not, some with Chinese some with out. So if you want one of them I can count it as one of the 10, he don't care. But you can't tell anyone where they came from. Price is supposed top be fixed.


All of the Tenkeyless Filco Majestouch boards have NKRO.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;11752935*
> FruitDealer uses a Filco with MX browns and NKRO. We've known this for a while; it caused a run on Filcos that almost depleted everyone's stock, and that's why EK is switching to Leopold.


So why not just call it a "Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch NKRO"? Or, a "Tactile Touch NKRO"?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;11752946*
> That's the issue here; how can you be sure of that? What we've seen/heard so far in the past day suggests it's a Zero.


We can't be sure. All we know now (thanks to recent posts since my last post) is that he doesn't use just one keyboard.

For example, this post shows that he's using a Tactile Touch in that video!

http://www.overclock.net/11738451-post10264.html

It's the same keyboard on the same day that the video was shot that we were looking at (the same video that was reposted most recently by fssbzz.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;11753089*
> So he's not even sticking to just using one keyboard?


Well, he's a pro (no sarcasm).

I think that it's like a professional drummer: most professional drummers have more than one snare drum. Some have hundreds of snare drums, and some just have a handful. On top of that, many professional drummers also have more than one drumset, more than one set of cymbals, etc.

Or like a professional guitarist: most professional guitarists have more than one guitar. Some even have like a full "library" of guitars.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fssbzz;11753186*
> in GSL, the keyboard are sponsored by Skydigital/Nkeyboard.
> 
> this is qualifier match
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he's using filco.
> im not sure what switch is that. lol it doesn't sound like brown to me.
> but the blue led on the kb is brown filco.


In this video, it's a Tactile Touch (which obviously is the Majestouch board that has the Cherry MX Browns).

Here's proof: http://www.overclock.net/11738451-post10264.html

This picture was taken on the same day that this video was shot. Take notice of the removed keycap.









I agree that it sounds clicky, but after the hundreds of videos I've seen of different people typing on their mechanical keyboards, I have learned that one big variable is the microphone in the camera as well as the way the video was converted. For example: I remember one video where the guy said that he shot the video with a crappy camcorder, but yet the audio quality was enhanced due to what he did with it (he said he had to do it in order to get the best possible demonstration of the sound that his mechanical keyboards make). The end result was increased high end (treble), and he even admitted it.

I also remember seeing videos of people using boards with Cherry MX Browns that actually sounded clicky like this. In two of the videos (if I remember correctly), they were aware of it so they decided to provide proof that their mechanical keyboards did indeed have the Browns and not the Blues or some other clicky switch.


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11754638*
> All of the Tenkeyless Filco Majestouch boards have NKRO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why not just call it a "Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch NKRO"? Or, a "Tactile Touch NKRO"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We can't be sure. All we know now (thanks to recent posts since my last post) is that he doesn't use just one keyboard.
> 
> For example, this post shows that he's using a Tactile Touch in that video!
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/11738451-post10264.html
> 
> It's the same keyboard on the same day that the video was shot that we were looking at (the same video that was reposted most recently by fssbzz.
> 
> Well, he's a pro (no sarcasm).
> 
> I think that it's like a professional drummer: most professional drummers have more than one snare drum. Some have hundreds of snare drums, and some just have a handful. On top of that, many professional drummers also have more than one drumset, more than one set of cymbals, etc.
> 
> Or like a professional guitarist: most professional guitarists have more than one guitar. Some even have like a full "library" of guitars.
> 
> In this video, it's a Tactile Touch (which obviously is the Majestouch board that has the Cherry MX Browns).
> 
> Here's proof: http://www.overclock.net/11738451-post10264.html
> 
> This picture was taken on the same day that this video was shot. Take notice of the removed keycap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that it sounds clicky, but after the hundreds of videos I've seen of different people typing on their mechanical keyboards, I have learned that one big variable is the microphone in the camera as well as the way the video was converted. For example: I remember one video where the guy said that he shot the video with a crappy camcorder, but yet the audio quality was enhanced due to what he did with it (he said he had to do it in order to get the best possible demonstration of the sound that his mechanical keyboards make). The end result was increased high end (treble), and he even admitted it.
> 
> I also remember seeing videos of people using boards with Cherry MX Browns that actually sounded clicky like this. In two of the videos (if I remember correctly), they were aware of it so they decided to provide proof that their mechanical keyboards did indeed have the Browns and not the Blues or some other clicky switch.


thats a picture of tester, not fruitdealer.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barrysgoods;11755194*
> thats a picture of tester, not fruitdealer.


Either way, isn't that his station? It sure looks like it.


----------



## Crazy9000

That's it, this thread has convinced me to never play Starcraft







.


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11755238*
> Either way, isn't that his station? It sure looks like it.


no thats the GSL qualifier building, its huge and all the stations look the same. and tester uses the same mouse mousepad and then tester uses the brown filco with the key removed.


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;11755909*
> That's it, this thread has convinced me to never play Starcraft
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


your loss







it's only unanimously voted best game of 2010


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barrysgoods;11756452*
> your loss
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's only unanimously voted best game of 2010










SC2 isn't even on a lot of top10 of 2010 lists. Don't make absurd statements like "unanimously".


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barrysgoods;11756425*
> no thats the GSL qualifier building, its huge and all the stations look the same. and tester uses the same mouse mousepad and then tester uses the brown filco with the key removed.


That mousepad appears to have some kind of cover on it. So, they all have that too?

*Edit:* Nevermind. There are different marble patterns.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barrysgoods;11756452*
> your loss
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's only unanimously voted best game of 2010


unanimously? I did not vote for it







Not when Civ was made this year.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barrysgoods;11756452*
> your loss
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's only unanimously voted best game of 2010


Meh... I only go by how *I* feel about a game. If I don't like a game, then I don't like a game. If I like a game, then I like it. Whether or not a game is voted the best of the best doesn't affect me.


----------



## barrysgoods

off topic, but does anyone know where I can check out specs or buy one of these TG displays? they look pretty nice.


----------



## Morizuno

hey guys, where can I find a blank key mx brown ducky board for sale under 150$?


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Morizuno;11759688*
> hey guys, where can I find a blank key mx brown ducky board for sale under 150$?


choose *無刻印鍵盤*

http://global.pchome.com.tw/?m=item&f=exhibit&IT_NO=DCAD80-A45366378&SR_NO=DCAH0X&tm=u

shipping is $20
free ducky leather wristpad,
and a USB mouse pad with LED.

OR

You can wait for our Ducky reseller to carry it,
the PBT version of blank. Brown Switches.
They are currently out of stock right now.
http://stores.ebay.com/duckykeyboard


----------



## Morizuno

The first link's a good deal, but does it have blank keys, because I can't tell from the picture.


----------



## fssbzz

there's an option for you to choose.
and choose this 無刻印鍵盤


----------



## Morizuno

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fssbzz;11759745*
> there's an option for you to choose.
> and choose this 無刻印鍵盤


oh sorry, didn't catch that, thanks!

Would you recommend this keyboard for FPS gaming ?


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Morizuno;11759781*
> oh sorry, didn't catch that, thanks!
> 
> Would you recommend this keyboard for FPS gaming ?


ya definitely.
brown switches is my favorite switch for gaming. all kinds of game.


----------



## Morizuno

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fssbzz;11759787*
> ya definitely.
> brown switches is my favorite switch for gaming. all kinds of game.


Alright, and is this perticular ducky board worth the money? I'm currently using some flat rubber dome atm and it's time for a change


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Morizuno;11759815*
> Alright, and is this perticular ducky board worth the money? I'm currently using some flat rubber dome atm and it's time for a change


yup, definitely.
i owned 2 ducky keyboard right now.
i love them all. got 2 more OTW to be delivered to me.
if you need help buying from that taiwan site.
here's my guide.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?p=259034#post259034
have fun


----------



## Morizuno

Thanks







I know I'll love this keyboard


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;11756582*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SC2 isn't even on a lot of top10 of 2010 lists. Don't make absurd statements like "unanimously".


i meant PC game.


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Morizuno;11759781*
> oh sorry, didn't catch that, thanks!
> 
> Would you recommend this keyboard for FPS gaming ?


I really think black switches are ideal for FPS gaming. But brown is a great all arounder. But if you are like a hardcore Counter Strike player, then really black is where it's at.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Morizuno;11759815*
> Alright, and is this perticular ducky board worth the money? I'm currently using some flat rubber dome atm and it's time for a change


Whoa. This will be the biggest upgrade you have ever done. Choosing a Ducky as your first mechanical keyboard is like.... damn. It's like having a Lamborghini or something as your first car. Except, a nearly indestructible Lamborghini or something.


----------



## barrysgoods

I'm having a hell of a time trying to buy this keyboard from pchome, anyone willing to help me out please?


----------



## webwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11760155*
> Whoa. This will be the biggest upgrade you have ever done. Choosing a Ducky as your first mechanical keyboard is like.... damn. It's like having a Lamborghini or something as your first car. Except, a nearly indestructible Lamborghini or something.


They don't make Lamborghini anymore since a couple of decades.










You can actually hit a key with a hammer, the keycap might fly off and you might be able to bend the metal stem. In which case you can bend it back. It will destroy all your keyboards in a keyboard fight. It feels better than any keyboard made since the Eighties. Better feel than a Model F, actuation force of the Cherry Blue, no friction, superior click. I think it was Ripster who was especially impressed by its usability factor. Ducky aims to be a cheap mid class car. It's much better than a Logitech bike.


----------



## TwoCables

K, well let me rephrase it:

When only considering readily-available keyboards, then keyboards like the Ducky are kinda like the Lamborghinis of keyboards. That is, unless you want one of those awesome modified mechanical keyboards. But I am not interested in dealing with exceptions.









I didn't think I needed to be that specific, but fair is fair I guess.


----------



## ch_123

Well, if we define Lambroghini in terms of all style and no substance, then sure.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;11766040*
> Well, if we define Lambroghini in terms of all style and no substance, then sure.


Alright, so using the Lamborghini was a bad analogy. But do you at least know what I'm saying?


----------



## webwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11766075*
> Alright, so using the Lamborghini was a bad analogy. But do you at least know what I'm saying?


Yes, but that was not the point.

The point was I was able to flaunt my beam spring keyboard.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *webwit;11766090*
> Yes, but that was not the point.
> 
> The point was I was able to flaunt my beam spring keyboard.


I know. I was asking ch_123.


----------



## webwit

Next some bootleg Korean Cherry 50g springs.. not those fake German copies, pah!
If you put these in your Ducky, magic things will happen and it will quack much better.


----------



## barrysgoods

I'm having such incredible trouble purchasing this keyboard from PChome website, it won't accept my phone number... does anyone know the correct way to input it? What is all this other stuff? Anyone able to assist me? Thanks guys Happy Holidays!


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11766097*
> I know. I was asking ch_123.


Yes, I do. Although I think that Lambroghini was a better analogy for describing Ducky keyboards than you thought it was :3

barrysgoods: If I was you, I wouldnt put up a pic listing your name, phone number and address on a public forum. Unless of course you've made it all up, in which case, carry on.
Quote:


> Next some bootleg Korean Cherry 50g springs.. not those fake German copies, pah!
> If you put these in your Ducky, magic things will happen and it will quack much better.


Im eagerly awaiting some German springs for my Dolch keyboards. However, I fear that it isnt just the spring that wears out in Blue Cherry switches, and that the slider or contact leaf may wear out too somehow. I'll find out whenever I get them.


----------



## webwit

I have a feeling the problems are related to the hair voting. I may be wrong.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;11766225*
> Yes, I do. Although I think that Lambroghini was a better analogy for describing Ducky keyboards than you thought it was :3


Webwit seems to strongly disagree.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;11766225*
> barrysgoods: If I was you, I wouldnt put up a pic listing your name, phone number and address on a public forum. Unless of course you've made it all up, in which case, carry on.


This.

There are way too many hackers on the internet. Don't even let your personal information be seen like this for just one second. One second is all it takes, especially if there's a hacker using software to grab everything automatically so that they don't miss anything.


----------



## webwit

Lamborghini is no cost compromise. A Ducky, like most modern products, is an exercise of cost compromising, finding a sweat spot in cost & pricing vs selling as much as possible vs max profit. So lots of plastic, simple switches, etc. Because people don't buy $500 keyboards.

The beam spring keyboards were direct descendants of the electric IBM typewriters. Before computers, the typewriter was all there was and a lot of the cost went into the keyboard, to separate it from the competition. In a small time period, IBM still applied this cost structure to computers, and a $500 keyboard would still be a tiny fraction of the total cost. It was about bringing the best product regardless of cost. With the Model F, it started to sacrifice quality for a better price.


----------



## ch_123

$500 is what the Model F cost (at least the 122-key ones anyway, according to some IBM docs I read once). I dont even want to know what the Beam Spring ones cost.

The fact that each individual switch was an FRU says a lot...


----------



## webwit

Yeah it was probably more, I just used some random high number.

Point is they stopped making Lamborghini and other such vehicles a long time ago. You can't get them.

Except one! Sometimes.. in limited editions.


----------



## TwoCables

Good grief. You understand what I'm saying, right? Isn't that what matters?

So, can we move forward now?


----------



## webwit

Yeah ch_123 is kinda slow today.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *webwit;11765855*
> They don't make Lamborghini anymore since a couple of decades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can actually hit a key with a hammer, the keycap might fly off and you might be able to bend the metal stem. In which case you can bend it back. It will destroy all your keyboards in a keyboard fight. It feels better than any keyboard made since the Eighties. Better feel than a Model F, actuation force of the Cherry Blue, no friction, superior click. I think it was Ripster who was especially impressed by its usability factor. Ducky aims to be a cheap mid class car. It's much better than a Logitech bike.


That would be more like a Rolls. Classy and well constructed. Not at all flashy and sleek like a Lambo.


----------



## ripster

I view it more like a Model T. The keyboard won't work with modern PCs so it's like trying to take your Model T on the freeway and the cops keep pulling you over for driving too slow.


----------



## Ikrin

Perhaps someone really passionate could make it work.


----------



## ripster

Even if they did the arrow keys would make them dizzy or at least nauseous.

Vrolijk Kerstfeest Webwit!


----------



## Azuremen

I'm thinking we might need to just make a separate thread for information pertaining to the keyboards used by FruitDealer. Some people don't seem to understand that at higher level play, like in the GSL, people bring their own keyboards and mice to each event and booth. And in the first GSL he was using a Filco of some sort; sponsors may have changed that since then. May have - I'm still not sure what businesses the sponsors of OGs and him are involved with.


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azuremen;11768586*
> I'm thinking we might need to just make a separate thread for information pertaining to the keyboards used by FruitDealer. Some people don't seem to understand that at higher level play, like in the GSL, people bring their own keyboards and mice to each event and booth. And in the first GSL he was using a Filco of some sort; sponsors may have changed that since then. May have - I'm still not sure what businesses the sponsors of OGs and him are involved with.


Fruit dealer is not on oGs anymore, he started his own clan called TSL


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Which already many good players are in.

Too bad though. ogs was a good clan


----------



## Ikrin

Now he must be sponsored exclusively by the Korean farmers.


----------



## Morizuno

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11760155*
> Whoa. This will be the biggest upgrade you have ever done. Choosing a Ducky as your first mechanical keyboard is like.... damn. It's like having a Lamborghini or something as your first car. Except, a nearly indestructible Lamborghini or something.


Awesome. They're actually pretty cheap imo (150$ for an epic mechanical keyboard?) The biggest upgrade before this would probably be going from my p8400 / 9800m gts laptop to my sig rig...

Gonna place an order when I get my paycheck next week


----------



## Azuremen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barrysgoods;11769284*
> Fruit dealer is not on oGs anymore, he started his own clan called TSL


I to need to learn to read good, and do other things good.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Morizuno;11769401*
> Awesome. They're actually pretty cheap imo (150$ for an epic mechanical keyboard?) The biggest upgrade before this would probably be going from my p8400 / 9800m gts laptop to my sig rig...
> 
> Gonna place an order when I get my paycheck next week


Not gonna hold out for Kip and those Filcos?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11768438*
> Even if they did the arrow keys would make them dizzy or at least nauseous.
> 
> Vrolijk Kerstfeest Webwit!


I took a closer look at those arrow keys and then I just busted a *gut*! Those arrow keys would cause me to get very angry! lol


----------



## Ikrin

Well, in some sense, some rhythm games would benefit from that placement, sorta..


----------



## ch_123

Inverted-T arrow cluster is highly over-rated. As are most things designed by committees.


----------



## KipH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


Not gonna hold out for Kip and those Filcos?


Well, Kip needs a brave and happy soul to send me a pile of $ so I can test my shipping ability.


----------



## ripster

Is this thread the official keyboard IRC channel?


----------



## Vitaminx

Using the Deck Legend now (linear version) and I have to say I like the linear keys for typing. Though I have never really used the tactile version either. The hardest thing to get used to is the difference in finger pressure required for the space bar opposed to other keys on the keyboard. Would this be the same for the tactile version as well? The last gripe would be that for some odd reason the left side of the keyboard slides. Even with the rubber feet being clear on the desk the left side slides and the right is pretty damn firm on the table. I can only guess there is a minor height difference. Anyone else ever come across this issue before? It's a bit annoying if I accidentally bump the keyboard as it slides. I think I had the same problem on my old G15 from a while back as well.


----------



## Crazy9000

Your desk must be uneven or something.


----------



## Vitaminx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Your desk must be uneven or something.


It's on the pull out keyboard panel. I doubt something that long isn't flat. The lycosa I used on this until today didn't move at all.


----------



## W4LNUT5

I believe the Linear Deck Legend has an MX Grey switch for the spacebar instead of an MX Black.

I have the tactile version, and I know my key is still an MX clear.


----------



## Vitaminx

Quote:



Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*


I believe the Linear Deck Legend has an MX Grey switch for the spacebar instead of an MX Black.

I have the tactile version, and I know my key is still an MX clear.


Hmmm, do you think the MX grey switch would be similar to the MX clear?


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Geekhack wiki: "Cherry switches and boards"*

Clear: soft tactile, Actuation Force 55cN, MX1A-C

Space bar types

* Light Grey (grey 39): tactile, Actuation Force 80cN, used for space bar in Cherry keyboards with clears and browns, MX1A-D 
* Dark Grey (grey 37): linear, Actuation Force 80cN, used for space bar in Cherry keyboards with blacks, MX1A-


Here.


----------



## Vitaminx

Wonder why only the space bar in linear is like that. What's the purpose of using a grey switch as opposed to black?


----------



## Ikrin

I don't think you read it closely enough. Dark greys are linear and used for the space bar on boards featuring black switches(linear). Light greys are tactile and are used on boards featuring clear or brown switches(soft tactile).

Also, as per why grey switches are used for the space bar instead of the switches that are the basis of all other keys, it is probably the idea that our thumbs are our strongest "fingers," and thus demand a key with an actuation force higher than other keys, so that it is not accidentally pressed, given it is of common usage.


----------



## W4LNUT5

I own a fairly new tactile deck legend, and I can tell you my space-bar has an MX Clear switch, and not a gray one.


----------



## Ikrin

Well, if you're absolutely sure, then you can take that up with Ripster. You can try through PM, but here is fine, also.


----------



## Vitaminx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5;11773841*
> I own a fairly new tactile deck legend, and I can tell you my space-bar has an MX Clear switch, and not a gray one.


What's the best way to remove keys on the Deck?


----------



## Tator Tot

I've got the Frost Tactile, and it's a MX-Clear as well.


----------



## Crazy9000

The Decks with black switches have gray's for spacebar, not the tactile ones.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikrin;11773918*
> Well, if you're absolutely sure, then you can take that up with Ripster. You can try through PM, but here is fine, also.


The wiki is referring to Cherry keyboards - meaning Cherry CORPORATION keyboards. I edited it to make it clearer.

Cherry MX gray on a Cherry Corp Brown Cherry MX SPOS G86-6241 (RicerCar SPOS for short).









Removing Cherry MX key instructions are here.


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Merry xmas/holidays ripster and everyone else in the Mecha thread!

(typed joyously on my -10 filco blue







)


----------



## ripster




----------



## barrysgoods

i desperately need a brown switch mechanical keyboard... ducky, filco, whatever, does anyone have a line on one anywhere on the interwebs?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vitaminx;11772602*
> Using the Deck Legend now (linear version) and I have to say I like the linear keys for typing. Though I have never really used the tactile version either. The hardest thing to get used to is the difference in finger pressure required for the space bar opposed to other keys on the keyboard. Would this be the same for the tactile version as well? The last gripe would be that for some odd reason the left side of the keyboard slides. Even with the rubber feet being clear on the desk the left side slides and the right is pretty damn firm on the table. I can only guess there is a minor height difference. Anyone else ever come across this issue before? It's a bit annoying if I accidentally bump the keyboard as it slides. I think I had the same problem on my old G15 from a while back as well.


Either it's some sort of defect, or it could be dust. I mean, the only time my Filco slides easier than it should is when I procrastinate too long between cleanings. So, the rubber pads collect dust and other stuff which results in having less exposed rubber. Except, this dust or debris could have come with the keyboard. So check it and clean it.









The same thing happens with my mouse pad. If I go long enough in between cleanings, then my mouse pad can slide just as easily as it does when I flip it over and slide it around on its cloth side!


----------



## Vitaminx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11778007*
> Either it's some sort of defect, or it could be dust. I mean, the only time my Filco slides easier than it should is when I procrastinate too long between cleanings. So, the rubber pads collect dust and other stuff which results in having less exposed rubber. Except, this dust or debris could have come with the keyboard. So check it and clean it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The same thing happens with my mouse pad. If I go long enough in between cleanings, then my mouse pad can slide just as easily as it does when I flip it over and slide it around on its cloth side!


Think I might have to just buy some rubber feet or something and put them in the back on both sides as well. Disappointing there aren't any in the back. That's the one gripe about this board. As for the space bar being to stiff with the MX grey switch, well I mostly got used to it now. Not that big of a deal, though I kind of want to try a tactile keyboard and see how these switches compare. Do most people not bottom on them?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vitaminx;11779405*
> Think I might have to just buy some rubber feet or something and put them in the back on both sides as well. Disappointing there aren't any in the back. That's the one gripe about this board. As for the space bar being to stiff with the MX grey switch, well I mostly got used to it now. Not that big of a deal, though I kind of want to try a tactile keyboard and see how these switches compare. Do most people not bottom on them?


Oh, I would bet most users still bottom out.


----------



## Vitaminx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;11779472*
> Oh, I would bet most users still bottom out.


Hmmm, wonder why tactile seems like the more preferred choice on forums then. I figured the point of tactile switches is to stop midway through keystroke to move onto the next key. Probably hard to get used to though I'd imagine. Linear isn't really bad to type on but I haven't tried a tactile version yet to compare the two.


----------



## Crazy9000

Tactile switches tend to feel better to type on.


----------



## Azuremen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;11779589*
> Tactile switches tend to feel better to type on.


Indeed. The Blue switch boards I've let people use for a bit always leave a much larger impression than the Blacks and Browns. Though they initially assume my Filco will feel like a Model M because of the sound, but I let them know it is much lighter, at which point they type a bit on it and go "oh my this is nice"

Then they ask how much it costs. At which point I tell them and they just give me a blank stare.


----------



## Tator Tot

It's not that hard to practice not bottoming out though.

My best suggestion for those people worried about bottoming out is getting a thin rubber mat and cutting it so it goes over every switch and thus when you bottom out you'll be hitting the rubber and not the hard plastic.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vitaminx;11779405*
> Think I might have to just buy some rubber feet or something and put them in the back on both sides as well. Disappointing there aren't any in the back. That's the one gripe about this board. As for the space bar being to stiff with the MX grey switch, well I mostly got used to it now. Not that big of a deal, though I kind of want to try a tactile keyboard and see how these switches compare. Do most people not bottom on them?


So is it a defect? I mean, are those rubber pads definitely clean and spotless?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vitaminx;11779580*
> Hmmm, wonder why tactile seems like the more preferred choice on forums then. I figured the point of tactile switches is to stop midway through keystroke to move onto the next key. Probably hard to get used to though I'd imagine. Linear isn't really bad to type on but I haven't tried a tactile version yet to compare the two.


The reason why tactile is more preferred is because it provides a nice balance between gaming and typing (well, not in some cases). Linear mechanical switches are the "worst" type of mechanical switch for typing. This isn't to say that they flat-out suck for typing or anything like that, but the tactile response of tactile switches just makes for a superior typing experience. It's as though it increases the sense of precision.

So, the resistance during the keystroke that we can call the "tactile feedback", or "the tactile bump" is nowhere near enough to stop you from bottoming out. Instead, it just feels nice to type and to press.

Again, rubber domes try to mimic tactile switches (but do a bad job). So, it's not hard to get used to at all.







For me, I was like a fish to water. However, if I had gone from rubber dome to something linear like the Cherry MX Blacks, then I definitely would have had to get used to it. I think it would feel kinda strange typing on a keyboard that provided zero tactile feedback. But at the same time, I think it would provide for a nice smooth feeling or something - I don't know. But I do know one thing: the tactility of good mechanical switches is just there to provide a nice feeling to the keystroke. It's certainly far superior to the lame tactile feedback provided by rubber domes because with a rubber dome, the tactile bump basically throws you to the bottom of the keystroke (there really isn't much key travel at all). But with good tactile mechanical switches, there's still some key travel left after the tactile bump. It's really nice!

But then there are some tactile switches that have the tactile bump closer to the bottom of the keystroke, such as the Buckling Spring type. Some people actually prefer this quite a bit over something like the Cherry MX Blues.


----------



## drjoey1500

Sorry, I haven't kept up with this thread. I remember reading elitekeyboards may be switching to ducky keyboards, any news on this?

Anyway, I think I'm finally going to be getting a real mechanical keyboard. I was planning on a Das S ultimate silent, but if elitekeyboards is going to be selling ducky keyboards soon...

Can someone remind me of differences between the two? Keycap printing doesn't matter, I'll be getting blanks either way.

I'm open to other options too







.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vitaminx;11779580*
> Hmmm, wonder why tactile seems like the more preferred choice on forums then. I figured the point of tactile switches is to stop midway through keystroke to move onto the next key. Probably hard to get used to though I'd imagine. Linear isn't really bad to type on but I haven't tried a tactile version yet to compare the two.


Well for one, most keyboards (including rubber domes/scissor switches) are tactile in nature, and that's what people are used to. In turn, tactile switches originated because typists were used to the feel of the mechanical mechanism in typewriters and found it disconcerting when it was removed.

Nonetheless, most computer keyboards in the 70s and early 80s were linear due to how simple and reliable they are, and people got along with them fine. I think one of the problems nowadays is that the only major linear mechanical switch is the Black Cherry - a stiff switch that is pretty horrible to type on.

I think people also want the keyboard to feel interesting to type on by means of justifying their expenditure on expensive keyboards. This is why people getting their first mechanical tend to gravitate towards Blue Cherry or Buckling Spring keyboards.
Quote:


> Sorry, I haven't kept up with this thread. I remember reading elitekeyboards may be switching to ducky keyboards, any news on this?


They're getting Leopolds... even better.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drjoey1500;11786953*
> Sorry, I haven't kept up with this thread. I remember reading elitekeyboards may be switching to ducky keyboards, any news on this?


This was a rumor that was quickly dispelled; they'll be stocking Leopolds, not Duckys.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drjoey1500;11786953*
> Sorry, I haven't kept up with this thread. I remember reading elitekeyboards may be switching to ducky keyboards, any news on this?
> 
> Anyway, I think I'm finally going to be getting a real mechanical keyboard. I was planning on a Das S ultimate silent, but if elitekeyboards is going to be selling ducky keyboards soon...
> 
> Can someone remind me of differences between the two? Keycap printing doesn't matter, I'll be getting blanks either way.
> 
> I'm open to other options too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Actually, the word is now that Elite Keyboards will be selling some Leopolds! These are supposed to be fantastic mechanical keyboards! Even I might buy one.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;11786967*
> This was a rumor that was quickly dispelled; they'll be stocking Leopolds, not Duckys.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11786979*
> Actually, the word is now that Elite Keyboards will be selling some Leopolds! These are supposed to be fantastic mechanical keyboards! Even I might buy one.


Oh really?







more waiting for me I guess... And I'm guessing they won't have blanks for a while either







.

Maybe I should go for the DAS... *shrug* IDK thanks for the info.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drjoey1500;11787113*
> Oh really?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> more waiting for me I guess... And I'm guessing they won't have blanks for a while either
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


We don't know, but they might have the Leopolds in by the end of January.

However, do you know about the Rosewill RK-9000? It's just like the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click, only it has a braided cable, a different logo, and a cool red metal plate inside instead of a black one!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823201040


----------



## psychrage

The RK-9000 seems to no longer be available. It was completly pulled from newegg about a week and a half ago. Now its back as a deactivated item.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11787131*
> We don't know, but they might have the Leopolds in by the end of January.
> 
> However, do you know about the Rosewill RK-9000? It's just like the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click, only it has a braided cable, a different logo, and a cool red metal plate inside instead of a black one!
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823201040


Yea, honestly though I'd go for the das over a filco. Plus I want blank keys for sure and I've been leaning toward cherry browns. I have been slightly thinking about blues though recently, now I'm not set on browns. The high pitched click of the blues might irritate me, idk I have to decide on that.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psychrage;11787191*
> The RK-9000 seems to no longer be available. It was completly pulled from newegg about a week and a half ago. Now its back as a deactivated item.


I'd say it's a hard sell for them now that Razer is offering a cheaper keyboard with the same switches, and more features.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drjoey1500;11787213*
> Yea, honestly though I'd go for the das over a filco. Plus I want blank keys for sure and I've been leaning toward cherry browns. I have been slightly thinking about blues though recently, now I'm not set on browns. The high pitched click of the blues might irritate me, idk I have to decide on that.


The click is nowhere near as high-pitched (or perhaps ear-piercing) as some videos make them sound. It's just a little mechanical click.


----------



## ch_123

Compared with a Model M, it's quieter, but more likely to irritate people.


----------



## Ikrin

You must have oneness with the cup rubber.


----------



## Vitaminx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11786008*
> So is it a defect? I mean, are those rubber pads definitely clean and spotless?
> 
> The reason why tactile is more preferred is because it provides a nice balance between gaming and typing (well, not in some cases). Linear mechanical switches are the "worst" type of mechanical switch for typing. This isn't to say that they flat-out suck for typing or anything like that, but the tactile response of tactile switches just makes for a superior typing experience. It's as though it increases the sense of precision.
> 
> So, the resistance during the keystroke that we can call the "tactile feedback", or "the tactile bump" is nowhere near enough to stop you from bottoming out. Instead, it just feels nice to type and to press.
> 
> Again, rubber domes try to mimic tactile switches (but do a bad job). So, it's not hard to get used to at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For me, I was like a fish to water. However, if I had gone from rubber dome to something linear like the Cherry MX Blacks, then I definitely would have had to get used to it. I think it would feel kinda strange typing on a keyboard that provided zero tactile feedback. But at the same time, I think it would provide for a nice smooth feeling or something - I don't know. But I do know one thing: the tactility of good mechanical switches is just there to provide a nice feeling to the keystroke. It's certainly far superior to the lame tactile feedback provided by rubber domes because with a rubber dome, the tactile bump basically throws you to the bottom of the keystroke (there really isn't much key travel at all). But with good tactile mechanical switches, there's still some key travel left after the tactile bump. It's really nice!
> 
> But then there are some tactile switches that have the tactile bump closer to the bottom of the keystroke, such as the Buckling Spring type. Some people actually prefer this quite a bit over something like the Cherry MX Blues.


Yeah the bottom is definitely spotless on the rubber feet. Not quite sure what to make of it, I'll try some other things in the mean time and see if it fixes it. Also when I powered down my computer the keyboards LED stayed on. Is that normal on the ps/2 version of the deck? Not like it's a big deal just wondering.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vitaminx;11789672*
> Yeah the bottom is definitely spotless on the rubber feet. Not quite sure what to make of it, I'll try some other things in the mean time and see if it fixes it. Also when I powered down my computer the keyboards LED stayed on. Is that normal on the ps/2 version of the deck? Not like it's a big deal just wondering.


Does the keyboard wobble in the least bit?

(I don't know whether or not it's normal for the lights to remain on)


----------



## Vitaminx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11789689*
> Does the keyboard wobble in the least bit?
> 
> (I don't know whether or not it's normal for the lights to remain on)


Not really. Perhaps a mm if height change when I try to wobble at the corners. If that much. And clearly both feet are touching because I shined a flash light underneath to see if their was any room I was unaware of.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vitaminx;11789916*
> Not really. Perhaps a mm if height change when I try to wobble at the corners. If that much. And clearly both feet are touching because I shined a flash light underneath to see if their was any room I was unaware of.


So then is it wobbling? I'm confused. But if it's wobbling, then that's the answer. I mean even though the rubber might be touching, it may be just _barely_ touching thereby allowing that side to slide easier.


----------



## Vitaminx

Then if I had to put it in terms of what I said above, I'd say it isn't wobbling. Not enough to make one side uneven that's for sure as I tried different surfaces to makes sure my area wasn't warped.


----------



## ripster

Easy way to tell. Pane of glass.

Perfectly level Filco.


----------



## runeazn

nice ripster


----------



## TwoCables

VitaminX: do all 4 rubber pads feel the same to your fingers?


----------



## drjoey1500

What are the chances of leopolds coming with (or having the option of) red WASD keys?

I kind of want to get something now, but I don't want to regret it either.

If you were me, would you wait until February or get a das now?


----------



## Zero4549

I've been eyeing mechanical boards for a while now but I keep on buying rubber domes instead. I'm just too picky and have grown too used to rubber domes to make the switch unless I wont be "losing" anything in the process.

The Black Widow looked to me like the keyboard I had been waiting for but honestly the painted keys look a wee bit silly (why not backlight the whole key instead of half of it?), the usb is sticking out the side instead of the back (this coming from a gaming company? 0_o) and the lack of NKRO (another *** coming from a gaming oriented company) just turn me off.

Is there any decent mechanical, non rattly, NKRO, backlit keyboard with a standard layout (very very important. No silly offset arrows or numpad or double height return keys... call me a ludite but I still game on the arrows and surrounding keys), prefrebly with proper function keys, properly placed usb/headhone/mic ports, and a nice overall look? Macros are of very little importance to me although having them is a bonus.

Price (within reason) isnt an issue here.


----------



## Admiral Mudkipz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Zero4549*


I've been eyeing mechanical boards for a while now but I keep on buying rubber domes instead. I'm just too picky and have grown too used to rubber domes to make the switch unless I wont be "losing" anything in the process.

The Black Widow looked to me like the keyboard I had been waiting for but honestly the painted keys look a wee bit silly (why not backlight the whole key instead of half of it?), the usb is sticking out the side instead of the back (this coming from a gaming company? 0_o) and the lack of NKRO (another *** coming from a gaming oriented company) just turn me off.

Is there any decent mechanical, non rattly, NKRO, backlit keyboard with a standard layout (very very important. No silly offset arrows or numpad or double height return keys... call me a ludite but I still game on the arrows and surrounding keys), prefrebly with proper function keys, properly placed usb/headhone/mic ports, and a nice overall look? Macros are of very little importance to me although having them is a bonus.

Price (within reason) isnt an issue here.


The XArmor U9BL LED Backlit keyboard might be what you are looking for then. It's 35% off now, so rather than being $199.99, it is only $129.99, therefore saving you $70.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Admiral Mudkipz;11803359*
> The XArmor U9BL LED Backlit keyboard might be what you are looking for then. It's 35% off now, so rather than being $199.99, it is only $129.99, therefore saving you $70.


That just might work. No macros I see but thats fine with me really if there isnt an equally good alternative with them.

Couple questions though. will the rubber coating rub/peel off over time like on the older razer keyboards?

I see media functions on the function keys. are they just relying on keymapping those functions to the function keys or is there a modifyer key (shift perhaps? If so this means you lose the ability to use shift + function key as its own binding I would assume... and it a bit of an inconvienience but I suppose i could live with it).

Their website mentions NKRO using ps/2 only, which is fine by me, but out of curiosity, does it still have 6+2 using usb? Also, it mentions anti-ghosting on the "gaming cluster". Does this imply ghosting problems with the rest of the keys or is that merely marketing/for those who are using USB?

EDIT: There is also mention that they will soon be releasing the "U9PLUS". The description of which is identical to the U9BL. Is this an old piece of information they forgot to update refering to the same product with an older name? If not, when is the "plus" expected and what is the diffrence?

EDIT 2: I also see they have special pricing for college students? o.0 Well... anyone know anything about that specificly and if its good with the promotion deal as well? (35% off + free mouse)

Thanks


----------



## Ikrin

There is a deal for $113.99 in the online deals forum. No, the U9PLUS will be a board with a similar layout, but with brown switches instead of the current offering of blue on the U9BL. Expected release date is in Q1 of next year, most likely January.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikrin;11803989*
> There is a deal for $113.99 in the online deals forum. No, the U9PLUS will be a board with a similar layout, but with brown switches instead of the current offering of blue on the U9BL. Expected release date is in Q1 of next year, most likely January.


I see. Any other changes or is it exactly the same other than browns? Also Browns are just lighter force blues right? Same tacticle and clickyness with the same "double tap" issue?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549;11804162*
> I see. Any other changes or is it exactly the same other than browns? Also Browns are just lighter force blues right? Same tacticle and clickyness with the same "double tap" issue?


Browns have a lighter tactile bump than blues, no clickyness, and don't have the double tap issue of the blues.


----------



## ripster

I wonder if Xarmor will fix their quality issues in 2011? And I'd be suspicious of rosy January ship dates.

The Scorpius M10 was a manufacturing disaster and the Xarmor has obvious quality problems.

You guys are more optimistic than George Bailey. I'm Potter.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11804211*
> Browns have a lighter tactile bump than blues, no clickyness, and don't have the double tap issue of the blues.


Oh I see. Id wait for the brown version then. Clicks dont matter to me (if anything its better without them. No need to annoy those trying to sleep) and if it eliminates a problem then great (even if i dont really care about half lift double tapping much).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11804220*
> I wonder if Xarmor will fix their quality issues in 2011? And I'd be suspicious of rosy January ship dates.
> 
> The Scorpius M10 was a manufacturing disaster and the Xarmor has obvious quality problems.


What quality problems exactly? Reviews I've seen are all good aside from the double tapping which is a problem with all blues not the board itself.

Scorpius is another story, but then thats another story


----------



## Vitaminx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11797777*
> VitaminX: do all 4 rubber pads feel the same to your fingers?


There's only 2 on the Deck and they feel the same. Only conclusion I can come up with is that the board is off a mm in height at the corner it is sliding from. No other explanation for it. Anyone got any ideas on how to fix this issue? Is there a site that sells rubber feet or something similar I can attach to the board? Deck hasn't gotten back to me since I sent the email 3 days ago.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vitaminx;11809060*
> There's only 2 on the Deck and they feel the same. Only conclusion I can come up with is that the board is off a mm in height at the corner it is sliding from. No other explanation for it. Anyone got any ideas on how to fix this issue? Is there a site that sells rubber feet or something similar I can attach to the board? Deck hasn't gotten back to me since I sent the email 3 days ago.


I just noticed that there are in fact only 2 rubber feet, both on the front side. But the darn things weighs so much I never have a problem with it moving unless I want it to.

Does your board rock back and forth as if it was crooked/twisted? If so, you could always just pick it up and gently twist it the other way until the board is level. It's a Deck, so it's not like you'd break it.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikrin;11803989*
> There is a deal for $113.99 in the online deals forum. No, the U9PLUS will be a board with a similar layout, but with brown switches instead of the current offering of blue on the U9BL. Expected release date is in Q1 of next year, most likely January.


I contacted them reguarding the student discount and took the opertunity to ask some questions. They said the "Plus" will be using blue switches and will be "similar to the U9BL but without backlight" for an estimated price of $120. Just thought id let everyone know.


----------



## ripster

Did they still give you the student discount after spelling it "opertunity"?

BTW $120 isn't going to fly.


----------



## webwit

Man, when I was a student we didn't have $120, we didn't have any money to spend on keyboards, we didn't have gaming keyboards, and we didn't have discounts on gaming keyboards. We'd go through the trash to find pieces of charcoal to take our notes with on recycled toilet paper, we ate burned rat with mayonnaise ("Rat Royale"), or when we couldn't catch any, at McDonald's, and wore pitiful t-shirts without any print. At nights we'd cry ourselves to sleep and dream about the days we would possibly afford a brand new $10 rubber dome keyboard.


----------



## Vitaminx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5;11809513*
> I just noticed that there are in fact only 2 rubber feet, both on the front side. But the darn things weighs so much I never have a problem with it moving unless I want it to.
> 
> Does your board rock back and forth as if it was crooked/twisted? If so, you could always just pick it up and gently twist it the other way until the board is level. It's a Deck, so it's not like you'd break it.


Yeah it rocks slightly. That has to be the problem. You're saying to bend it until it's level with the desk? Will this thing actually bend?


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Zero4549*


I contacted them reguarding the student discount and took the opertunity to ask some questions. They said the "Plus" will be using blue switches and will be "similar to the U9BL but without backlight" for an estimated price of $120. Just thought id let everyone know.


Hm..., well, I was under the impression that a keyboard with brown switches was on its way. In no way does that price seem tempting, given that the U9BL stands around that price right now. If they're basing the price off their MSRP of $199 for the U9BL, they're just kidding themselves.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikrin;11810833*
> Hm..., well, I was under the impression that a keyboard with brown switches was on its way. In no way does that price seem tempting, given that the U9BL stands around that price right now. If they're basing the price off their MSRP of $199 for the U9BL, they're just kidding themselves.


I'm sure if they are going to call it $120 it will be more along the lines of $80 to actually buy









Pretty much seems like they're trying to compete with the black widow here.

Oh and yeah they gave me a 15% additional discount for being a student







(thats on top of the free mouse and 35%. mouse is a iOne Lynx S2 btw)


----------



## ripster

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *Vitaminx*   Yeah it rocks slightly. That has to be the problem. You're saying to bend it until it's level with the desk? Will this thing actually bend?  
Hmm.....You can bend it with Filcos to correct sometimes because it's a friction held case.

But bending a Deck reminds me of this band.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Vitaminx*


Yeah it rocks slightly. That has to be the problem. You're saying to bend it until it's level with the desk? Will this thing actually bend?


I asked you this before, and you told me it doesn't. Was it because I asked if it "wobbles"?

So this is the answer: the keyboard could be slightly warped. Or perhaps it's your desk. Or perhaps one of the rubber pads is of a different thickness.

Either way, when you mentioned the first time how one side slides fairly easily and the other doesn't, all I pictured was either an uneven surface, or a slightly warped keyboard. I know you used light to see if light was passing by, but here's what I said about that: it's possible that the left side is still making contact, but just barely thereby preventing light from getting through.

So either the keyboard is defective, or it's the desk. Or, it could be the rubber pad. Maybe the left rubber pad is too thin, or the right side pad is too thick.


----------



## Vitaminx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11812931*
> I asked you this before, and you told me it doesn't. Was it because I asked if it "wobbles"?
> 
> So this is the answer: the keyboard could be slightly warped. Or perhaps it's your desk. Or perhaps one of the rubber pads is of a different thickness.
> 
> Either way, when you mentioned the first time how one side slides fairly easily and the other doesn't, all I pictured was either an uneven surface, or a slightly warped keyboard. I know you used light to see if light was passing by, but here's what I said about that: it's possible that the left side is still making contact, but just barely thereby preventing light from getting through.
> 
> So either the keyboard is defective, or it's the desk. Or, it could be the rubber pad. Maybe the left rubber pad is too thin, or the right side pad is too thick.


To be honest, at the time you asked that I thoroughly checked at that time if it did in fact wobble but it didn't seem like it did. But I kept checking different spots later on due to this sliding annoying me and it does wobble slightly at the bottom left and top right corners. But literally, the wobbling itself isn't even lifting the board off the table to make it slide like it does. And I've tried this keyboard on multiple surfaces now to be sure it wasn't because my keyboard panel was warped. It still slid on each and every surface. So from this information here, what do you suggest? Is it fixable or should I ask for a replacement board? Nothing else is bothering me on this keyboard and it's pretty sweet to type on. Just that one little issue is annoying me a bit too much for me to let it slide.


----------



## ripster

Letting keyboard sliding problems slide leads to a slippery slope.

Stick a Xtrac SuperXXL Mousemat under it and fuggedaboutit.


----------



## Vitaminx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11813936*
> Letting keyboard sliding problems slide leads to a slippery slope.
> 
> Stick a Xtrac SuperXXL Mousemat under it and fuggedaboutit.


Bit big for my keyboard panel, but I get the idea. I'll test it out later.


----------



## TwoCables

If it were me, then I'd ask for a replacement. These are supposed to be among the best keyboards in the world, and this unit sounds as though it's slightly warped just a little bit.


----------



## Crazy9000

Maybe it got damaged during shipping?


----------



## barrysgoods

Should I buy a Ducky with brown switches now, or wait to get a Leopold at the end of January?


----------



## Crazy9000

I don't see why you would bother waiting for the Leopold personally.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barrysgoods;11814294*
> Should I buy a Ducky with brown switches now, or wait to get a Leopold at the end of January?


No real reason to wait, the Ducky's have more features as well (with media keys.)


----------



## barrysgoods

ok and last question, they have a cheaper ducky now(dk1008), is it worth it to get the more expensive one?

http://global.pchome.com.tw/?mod=item&func=exhibit&IT_NO=DCAH0X-A51217879&c=A05&tm=u

and also do they have different color keys I can order for the ducky? either on pchome or another website? I want to order it with the keyboard since its coming from taiwan.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barrysgoods;11814340*
> ok and last question, they have a cheaper ducky now(dk1008), is it worth it to get the more expensive one?
> 
> http://global.pchome.com.tw/?mod=item&func=exhibit&IT_NO=DCAH0X-A51217879&c=A05&tm=u
> 
> and also do they have different color keys I can order for the ducky? either on pchome or another website? I want to order it with the keyboard since its coming from taiwan.


You can order directly from Ducky using Ebay right now. Only the DK9008 though.

Though; that's a good board. The DK1008 doesn't have all the features of the DK9008, like the media keys.

And by the way, Ducky has an English site now:
http://duckychannel.com.tw/en/products1-4.html


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;11814426*
> You can order directly from Ducky using Ebay right now. Only the DK9008 though.
> 
> Though; that's a good board. The DK1008 doesn't have all the features of the DK9008, like the media keys.
> 
> And by the way, Ducky has an English site now:
> http://duckychannel.com.tw/en/products1-4.html


So what exactly does a ducky 9000 have that a ducky 1087 does not?

Also where can I purchase replaceable different colored keycaps?

Thanks guys!


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barrysgoods;11814446*
> So what exactly does a ducky 9000 have that a ducky 1087 does not?
> 
> Also where can I purchase replaceable different colored keycaps?
> 
> Thanks guys!


ducky 9000 can lock WINDOWS key, Swap ctrl and capslock, swap alt and windows position. and all the Media Player button like play pause volume up and down.
1087 don't have those.


----------



## Ikrin

Just depends on whether those features interest you, or if you would just rather have a tenkeyless.


----------



## fssbzz

white ducky 1087 looks very cool.


----------



## barrysgoods

I went with the ducky 9000 brown switches, seemed like the most solid choice. does anyone know where to get key caps in different colors for the ducky?


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barrysgoods;11814625*
> I went with the ducky 9000 brown switches, seemed like the most solid choice. does anyone know where to get key caps in different colors for the ducky?


they usually provided with the Lavender WASD, and 2 red color ducky key.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barrysgoods;11814446*
> Also where can I purchase replaceable different colored keycaps?


Fzz already got the first part of your question; for this part :
http://www.keytops.com/custom-keys.htm


----------



## Vitaminx

I've actually been bending it slightly now and it has taken hold to the desk more. I'll keep at it until I get good amount of friction between the rubber and desk since this thing seems pretty damn unbreakable.


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;11814637*
> Fzz already got the first part of your question; for this part :
> http://www.keytops.com/custom-keys.htm


awesome, just what I was looking for.


----------



## tehlee

After having a bit of a perusal around the net, and a bit of a Google.

I'm having issues finding somewhere that sells the Scorpius M10BL, let alone will ship to Australia.

I was hoping someone on here might be able to point me in the right direction =]

This thread has really helped me in looking around to find what I wanted to purchase, so kudos to OP and kudos to everyone that has contributed.


----------



## Sin100

When you type in Overclock.net in google, this page (after the home page) comes up first, and what a fine guide to give OCN justice! Thanks once again Manyak


----------



## webwit

Type "mechanical keyboard" in google, and you just found out why geekhack hates overclock and went into a wiki rewrite frenzy in fain hope to replicate the effect


----------



## ripster

Type "OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide" into Google. Hit Images tab.


----------



## webwit

At google images, "webwit" > "ripster".


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *webwit;11816688*
> Type "mechanical keyboard" in google, and you just found out why geekhack hates overclock and went into a wiki rewrite frenzy in fain hope to replicate the effect


Pretty much sums it up







. GH just doesn't have the user base to compete on google's result list though.


----------



## webwit

User base is good, although Das Keyboard which is way up there doesn't have a user base.

When you search for IBM Model M, my hidden IBM Model M simulator is higher than any geekhack or overclock page about this subject.

And I just demonstrated how it works. Getting linked is half the work.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *webwit;11817668*
> User base is good, although Das Keyboard which is way up there doesn't have a user base.
> 
> When you search for IBM Model M, my hidden IBM Model M simulator is higher than any geekhack or overclock page about this subject.
> 
> And I just demonstrated how it works. Getting linked is half the work.


Well that would explain why Ripster links the GH wiki so often.


----------



## W4LNUT5

What would really need to be done to increase the traffic is to start pointing other tech forums to the guides you wish to populate. The extra hits from this "totally new" (to them) information should eventually spark the same Mech Keyboard surge like it did with OCN. You might even get an "Information Links" thread stickied on said sites. Then profit.


----------



## webwit

My Model M simulator gets more hits than this keyboard forum and geekhack combined. For ONE MILLION DOLLAR I'll share the trick.


----------



## ripster

I link to Geekhack so often because it answers the question without me having to type so much.

And the OP needs more pics! I like pics!


----------



## Doober

LEGOS > Duck Silhouettes

thus

Ripster > Webwit

also Ripster just stop helping people here at OCN, and then GH will get more traffic.

-doober


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Doober;11818732*
> also Ripster just stop helping people here at OCN, and then GH will get more traffic.


It works better if he helps out here. Excessive advertising of Geekhack would be a problem, though.

Edit; and what's with all the guests (19 right now) that are ALWAYS viewing this thread?







Join already!


----------



## Doober

lurkers be lurking.


----------



## iMav

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *webwit;11816688*
> Type "mechanical keyboard" in google, and you just found out why geekhack hates overclock and went into a wiki rewrite frenzy in fain hope to replicate the effect


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;11817443*
> Pretty much sums it up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . GH just doesn't have the user base to compete on google's result list though.


Actually, I've never much cared about google results. My motivation in setting up geekhack was simply to create a community where I could discuss keyboards (and other input devices) with other enthusiasts. I've never tried to optimise geekhack for search engines.

As far as the wiki is concerned...that is a 100% GH community effort. Aside from setting up the shell, I have contributed next to nothing there. (as opposed to Ripster, who has done a ton...you can ask him about his motivation)









The more (communities involved in keyboard discussion) the better AFAIC!


----------



## ripster

Ripster = Webwit if you count Rep points per post percentage.

This I find astounding.


----------



## webwit

It won't be long before they find out you have been my sock puppet. It's not very hard. Yada yada Zooey Deschanel yada yada AAPL yada yada HHKB cursor keys and dipswitches. Repeat.


----------



## BMorrisSly

Hey guys, I didn't really wanna start a new thread about mech keyboards when there's a perfectly good one here.

Right so I have a logitech G15V2 and I was planning on getting the SteelSeries 6GV2 to match my setup of steelseries xai and 9HD. Now my friend said that I might not like the keyboard as the switches in it are harder to press to avoid making mistakes.. How much of a difference will I be seeing, I mean would it ache my hands when gaming etc?
I'll have the money by tomorrow to purchase it. If I dislike it, will I be able to send it back to Steelseries?

Thanks BMorrisSly


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BMorrisSly;11819127*
> Hey guys, I didn't really wanna start a new thread about mech keyboards when there's a perfectly good one here.
> 
> Right so I have a logitech G15V2 and I was planning on getting the SteelSeries 6GV2 to match my setup of steelseries xai and 9HD. Now my friend said that I might not like the keyboard as the switches in it are harder to press to avoid making mistakes.. How much of a difference will I be seeing, I mean would it ache my hands when gaming etc?
> I'll have the money by tomorrow to purchase it. If I dislike it, will I be able to send it back to Steelseries?
> 
> Thanks BMorrisSly


Buy the Steelseries and then clobber your friend with it.

In all seriousness rubber dome switches such as your current logitech all take a varying amount of force (even across the same keyboard due to use). The 6GV2 will not tire you out and your hands out as it would be a minor increase in force (if any), and they will not "ache from gaming". An added bonus of a mechanical keyboard is you no longer _need_ to bottom out your keystrokes and therefore would be reducing stress on the fingers.

Actually, I stand by my first statement now. Buy the Steelseries and hit your misinformed friend with it. Sweet bonus of most mechanicals is they can take that beating with a grin







. Then send him here to get informed and to understand the awesomeness of a vastly superior keyboard.


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BMorrisSly;11819127*
> Hey guys, I didn't really wanna start a new thread about mech keyboards when there's a perfectly good one here.
> 
> Right so I have a logitech G15V2 and I was planning on getting the SteelSeries 6GV2 to match my setup of steelseries xai and 9HD. Now my friend said that I might not like the keyboard as the switches in it are harder to press to avoid making mistakes.. How much of a difference will I be seeing, I mean would it ache my hands when gaming etc?
> I'll have the money by tomorrow to purchase it. If I dislike it, will I be able to send it back to Steelseries?
> 
> Thanks BMorrisSly


I have had a couple Steelseries boards and they are really great, but I like them for FPS gaming, for RTS I think Brown Switches are much better (steelseries uses black). And your friend is dumbbbb, the steelseries keys you barely have to touch it for it to register, but you don't know if u actually hit it because there is no tactile click.


----------



## BMorrisSly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5;11819223*
> Buy the Steelseries and then clobber your friend with it.
> 
> In all seriousness rubber dome switches such as your current logitech all take a varying amount of force (even across the same keyboard due to use). The 6GV2 will not tire you out and your hands out as it would be a minor increase in force (if any), and they will not "ache from gaming". An added bonus of a mechanical keyboard is you no longer _need_ to bottom out your keystrokes and therefore would be reducing stress on the fingers.
> 
> Actually, I stand by my first statement now. Buy the Steelseries and hit your misinformed friend with it. Sweet bonus of most mechanicals is they can take that beating with a grin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Then send him here to get informed and to understand the awesomeness of a vastly superior keyboard.


Haha oh right, I might purchase this when I get paid tomorrow then. Thanks for the help buddy! +rep
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barrysgoods;11819312*
> I have had a couple Steelseries boards and they are really great, but I like them for FPS gaming, for RTS I think Brown Switches are much better (steelseries uses black). And your friend is dumbbbb, the steelseries keys you barely have to touch it for it to register, but you don't know if u actually hit it because there is no tactile click.


Yeah I mainly play a lot of FPS. +rep


----------



## SecrtAgentMan

Is there any advantage to getting a keyboard without labeled keys?


----------



## Crazy9000

Advantage? No, besides looks. I mean they keys are exactly the same, just don't have lettering on them.

I guess the lettering can't wear off since it was never there in the first place, so the board will look a bit more uniform even after it heavily used.


----------



## webwit

Best thing I did was switch to blanks. Vastly improved my control.

Professional. Watch the eyes.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6txOvK-mAk[/ame[/URL]]

Amateur. Needs labels.


----------



## Snipe07

I'm not sure if anybody here would know this, but I figured this would be the best place to ask, so here goes. Does anybody know what switches would be most similar to those used in the old mechanical Canadian Tire/AS400 keyboards? We had one when I used to work there and I absolutely loved typing on it lol, it was almost fun.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iMav;11818920*
> Aside from setting up the shell, I have contributed next to nothing there. (as opposed to Ripster, who has done a ton...you can ask him about his motivation)


At the time my motivation was to annoy Lmnop. Now I'm motivated by Veritas.

And speaking of Canadians I assume if it was a AS400 it would have been a Buckling Spring, maybe even a 122 key monster.


----------



## Snipe07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11824876*
> At the time my motivation was to annoy Lmnop. Now I'm motivated by Veritas.
> 
> And speaking of Canadians I assume if it was a AS400 it would have been a Buckling Spring, maybe even a 122 key monster.
> *snip*


thanks, that looks fairly similar, and gotta love the function keys lol


----------



## tehlee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tehlee;11815167*
> I'm having issues finding somewhere that sells the Scorpius M10BL, let alone will ship to Australia.


Sorry to self-bump, but I'm super keen to find this keyboard.


----------



## ripster

It's the DukeNukem Forever of Keyboards.

But since DukeNukem will ship in 2011 ya never know...


----------



## tehlee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11825689*
> It's the DukeNukem Forever of Keyboards.
> 
> But since DukeNukem will ship in 2011 ya never know...


Haha wow that really sucks.

Now I don't know what to buy


----------



## Lanx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iMav;11818920*
> The more (communities involved in keyboard discussion) the better AFAIC!


OCN doesn't even have a keyboard mod section talk about underwhelming =/


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lanx;11826169*
> OCN doesn't even have a keyboard mod section talk about underwhelming =/


If people posted them often enough we would. Doesn't make any sense to have a whole section for two topics.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snipe07;11824111*
> I'm not sure if anybody here would know this, but I figured this would be the best place to ask, so here goes. Does anybody know what switches would be most similar to those used in the old mechanical Canadian Tire/AS400 keyboards? We had one when I used to work there and I absolutely loved typing on it lol, it was almost fun.


The 5250-style terminals used with AS/400s used Model M terminal keyboards.

PS/2 ones available here. Extra keys can be used with some hackery.


----------



## barrysgoods

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SecrtAgentMan;11823682*
> Is there any advantage to getting a keyboard without labeled keys?


nerd cred.


----------



## Zerkk

Just noticed last night that the keys on the xarmor are poorly coated... you can see the spotty blue light through the arrow keys. I don't even use the arrow keys so it's not from me using them. Anyone else have this problem? So far that and the space bar are my only problems I have with the board.


----------



## ripster

You mean all those posts talking about things other than the spotty coating, not working with PS/2, funky cracking keys with paper on them, sticking keys, uneven lighting, or lack of stores selling them?

I'm pretty sure there's a forum for that.


----------



## james_ant

My Black Widow is on the Purilator truck and on it's way to my house for delivery. It should be here before noon.

Just thought I would post that here.


----------



## Zerkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11828619*
> You mean all those posts talking about things other than the spotty coating, not working with PS/2, funky cracking keys with paper on them, sticking keys, uneven lighting, or lack of stores selling them?
> 
> I'm pretty sure there's a forum for that.


Wait what







I haven't seen any posts about those. The only thing I've read/heard about the board is it's poor coating on some of them. Lack of stores selling them isn't really a problem when you can buy it directly from them, aren't most mech boards like that? I haven't had a problem with PS/2 or funky cracking keys with paper on them(?).


----------



## ripster

See this post. And recently there seem to be a bunch of these. For a keyboard with low serial numbers (below 200) this is not good. It's not like Razer with a few reports of dead keyboards and yet 1000s of units shipping.

Cracked Xarmor spacebar stem









And putting paper in the stems to fix loose keys? Wow, talk about Ghetto.


----------



## Zerkk

Wow that's janky... I'll have to check my spacebar tonight when i get home to see if it's cracked, I'm guessing it is since it get's lopsided after gaming. And If i have to put paper in the stem to fix keys when they get lose I'm going to be pissed. RMA incoming.

Edit: checked my space bar, it's fine. My keys also look pretty decent as far as centering goes, it's just the damn crap coating.


----------



## groundzero9

Is there anywhere left in the US where you can buy the blank Otaku keys for Filcos? I found an AU site but they are $67?


----------



## webwit

Otaku was the best joke Elitekeyboard ever pulled.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Did they still give you the student discount after spelling it "opertunity"?

BTW $120 isn't going to fly.


That's MSRP, just like MSRP on the U9BL is $199. The U9PLUS will probably launch at $119 then drop to like $90-$100.

I'm a little worried for them in that Razer is forcing them to compress the space between their top and bottom offerings, so products like the U9PLUS will be in an awkward position where it's either priced to close to the higher end models and it doesn't sell, or it's priced too close to the entry level model and steals its sales. We'll have to see.


----------



## ripster

Well, stealing sales from a backlit model with serial numbers less than 200 is the least of their worries. At $90 street versus a Elitekeyboards Leopold at let's say $120 they should be OK. Especially if they can keep Brown Cherries in stock - not exactly Elitekeyboards strong suit - inventory control.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Well, stealing sales from a backlit model with serial numbers less than 200 is the least of their worries. At $90 street versus a Elitekeyboards Leopold at let's say $120 they should be OK. Especially if they can keep Brown Cherries in stock - not exactly Elitekeyboards strong suit - inventory control.


Well I think Filco wasn't able to supply them with the inventory they needed, hence them dropping Filco and looking at other options.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Well I think Filco wasn't able to supply them with the inventory they needed, hence them dropping Filco and looking at other options.


Thats all well and good... except they said its going to be using blues now o.o

We are talking about the U9PLUS still, right?


----------



## Crazy9000

I was talking about EK switching to leopold.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I was talking about EK switching to leopold.


Oh well in that case never mind







Lack of sleep and what not.

I still find it funny that no one has made a serious "gaming" mechanical. Sure theres the Xarmor and the Black Widow and a few steelseries boards but they all require a trade off between "gaming" features and nice keys (and the niceness of the keys is subjective... why is everyone using blue or black anyway on boards oriented towards the gaming crowd?).

If they threw out a board with a garish razer or logitech style look to it, cherry browns, backlighting, with nkro a few macro keys and (legit) media keys, with some ports sticking out the back (NOT right side 0_o) and made up some silly marketing gimick to add on, it would sell like hotcakes.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Sounds like the U9GBL.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;11833231*
> Sounds like the U9GBL.


Eh still using the wrong switches and still using the half-assed method of media keys. In fact replacing the right windows key is worse IMO because now you cant hit the "media keys" with a single hand... atleast not with small hands like most young "[email protected]" gamers who are going to badger their parents into buying these things..... or more importantly... me







(why, why am i cursed with tiny hands? x.x)

Besides, they're lacking the marketing gimmick. logi has their little screens. razer has their "synapse" and associated sillyness. Xarmor has... umm... NKRO? I mean yeah its a better selling point but most people who actually understand it arnt going for a gaming board to begin with. We need a GIMMICK!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549;11833799*
> Eh still using the wrong switches and still using the half-assed method of media keys. In fact replacing the right windows key is worse IMO because now you cant hit the "media keys" with a single hand... atleast not with small hands like most young "[email protected]" gamers who are going to badger their parents into buying these things..... or more importantly... me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (why, why am i cursed with tiny hands? x.x)
> 
> Besides, they're lacking the marketing gimmick. logi has their little screens. razer has their "synapse" and associated sillyness. Xarmor has... umm... NKRO? I mean yeah its a better selling point but most people who actually understand it arnt going for a gaming board to begin with. We need a GIMMICK!


I think the GBL has (will have) browns







. It sounds like a good choice if xarmor gets their quality control under control.


----------



## ice_owl

Any thoughts on the Razer mechanical boards? Sorry if this has been mentioned or not.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ice_owl;11836493*
> Any thoughts on the Razer mechanical boards? Sorry if this has been mentioned or not.


It has, but I'll humor you







.

The base model is pretty cheap. Hard not to recommend for the price. Drawback is the blue switches may not be the best choice for gaming, and also locks up on some key combinations. There's a few reviews posted up here in the keyboards section, check them out.


----------



## ice_owl

I have read some reviews just looking for some owner input perhaps. I do agree about the price.


----------



## goodtobeking

I went to MC to check out mechanical keyboards. And I had to ask 4 guys about them, none knew what I was talking about. Finally another walks up a says they have 2 different ones, and turns out only one in stock. I looked just like my POS inland keyboard, and didnt feel much different. Why couldnt they have a display where I could check out the different keys??

Where can I go to check out mechanical keyboards?? I think I would like the blues, but I just wanna make sure they are not to loud.


----------



## Crazy9000

You can't ask them if they have mechanicals, that's too complicated for people who work in electronics stores. You have to ask if they have the steelseries 6g/7g, or the blackwidow. Those are the boards they would be most likely to have.


----------



## goodtobeking

I will try that next time Crazy9000. Sad to think I may know more than some of them. Even when I dont claim to know much.

I was reading the posts in the page after I posted and seen you were talking about the U9GBL. Sad to hear about the problems with those boards. I have been set on getting one since Phaedrus2129 made his discount giveaway thread. I hope they get their act together this February, so I can buy myself a B-day present and get the MX Browns.

Anyone think they will have their act together before they release the next board??


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *goodtobeking;11837774*
> I will try that next time Crazy9000. Sad to think I may know more than some of them. Even when I dont claim to know much.
> 
> I was reading the posts in the page after I posted and seen you were talking about the U9GBL. Sad to hear about the problems with those boards. I have been set on getting one since Phaedrus2129 made his discount giveaway thread. I hope they get their act together this February, so I can buy myself a B-day present and get the MX Browns.
> 
> Anyone think they will have their act together before they release the next board??


Eh they seem hit or miss. if you really want one, order it. If something goes wrong RMA. They are very good with support atleast, people are just lazy with returning keyboards for RMA (especially if they dont have a spare).


----------



## shinji2k

I found this old Compaq RT6656TW in a friends garage a while back. I gave it to my mom to use and she started complaining about the space bar sticking so I traded it out for something else. I decided to see if I could clean it and get it working again only to find that it might be something interesting. What kind of switch is this? It also has a metal backplate. Is it worth cleaning up? The controller PCB also has a NMB logo if that helps. Geekhack lists a linear white NMB switch, I'm assuming that's what these are.

edit- NVM, took it apart some more to find rubber domes. Boring.


----------



## Ikrin

Wow. That keyboard looks disgustingly dirty, lol.


----------



## Morizuno

hey guys, how long does it usually take to get an order from pchome? I made an order on sunday for a ducky and it didn't come yet


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Morizuno;11846651*
> hey guys, how long does it usually take to get an order from pchome? I made an order on sunday for a ducky and it didn't come yet


From where are they shipping? I mean, it has only been 5 business days. It's usually best to allow 1-2 days for an order to be shipped out, and then a few more days on top of that for the shipment to make its way to you. But if it's international shipping, then it can take a bit longer than just a few business days to ship from the store/warehouse to you.


----------



## Morizuno

What do you mean, from where are they shipping? I'm not sure, but I think it's from Taiwan


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Morizuno;11846750*
> What do you mean, from where are they shipping? I'm not sure, but I think it's from Taiwan


That's what I mean: they're shipping from Taiwan. I didn't know that.

So, since it's international, I would expect it to take longer than it otherwise would if it were merely shipping across the USA from coast to coast.


----------



## KipH

PC home is A good Taiwan company. They ship 7 days a week and get stuff out quick. There have been reports of boards getting to america in 4 or 5 days, but don't count on it. Some people figured the trick for tracking it too, but you need to reed the geekhack thread about it.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Morizuno*


hey guys, how long does it usually take to get an order from pchome? I made an order on sunday for a ducky and it didn't come yet


once it shipped it out.
it takes 4~5days to be delivered.
if you use Paypal instant transfer payment.
your item will be shipped within 24 hours.
probably get it on the 5th day.


----------



## Crazy9000

Expect up to two weeks for international. You'll probably get it early next week though.


----------



## fssbzz

PChome use EMS shipping for international shipping only.
so is quite fast. is Express International Mail


----------



## Ikrin

I convinced someone at Fry's to buy the BlackWidow over the Lycosa. xD


----------



## Doober

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikrin;11867371*
> I convinced someone at Fry's to buy the BlackWidow over the Lycosa. xD


you should feel ashamed of yourself...........

no in all seriousness how old was he/she? how did you convince him/her?

-doober


----------



## Ikrin

Not sure why that would necessarily matter what age they were?


----------



## Doober

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


Not sure why that would necessarily matter what age they were?


well were they young teenagers, or some middle age man? yes it definitely matters when it comes to buying something because of its price, use, construction, or fads.

-doober

and you still didn't say


----------



## Ikrin

They were probably in their 20s-30s. Not sure how that would relate to yourself, though.

I just explained scissor switches vs. mechanical switches, and pointed them toward a Steelseries 7G that had keys pulled off, pointing out that those black switches were linear vs. the tactile blues in the Blackwidow, and how mechanical switches were just generally better than scissor switches.

Hooray for long and convoluted sentences.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


They were probably in their 20s-30s. Not sure how that would relate to yourself, though.

I just explained scissor switches vs. mechanical switches, and pointed them toward a Steelseries 7G that had keys pulled off, pointing out that those black switches were linear vs. the tactile blues in the Blackwidow, and how mechanical switches were just generally better than scissor switches.

Hooray for long and convoluted sentences.


Believe it or not, the Lycosa just has regular rubber domes.


----------



## Ikrin

It's worse than I thought, then. JK. Oh well, guess I just assumed from the low-profile keys. My bad turned into good?


----------



## fssbzz

i thought scissors switch is basically rubber dome too.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ErgoCanada*

It still uses rubber domes, but a special plastic 'scissors'mechanism links the keycap to a plunger that depresses the rubber dome with a much shorter travel than the typical rubber dome keyboard.


^This.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


i thought scissors switch is basically rubber dome too.


They are. The scissors are needed because the dome is too small to pop the keycap up by itself.


----------



## kga92

I just got my blackwidow after a months wait! This this is awesome to type on, it might stop gaming and become more active on the forums now, lol









The only bad thing is that it has no backlighting, but I was aware of that (I did not want to spend 100+ euros on backlighting). Maybe I'll learn to type better without looking at the keyboard soon


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


They are. The scissors are needed because the dome is too small to pop the keycap up by itself.


Actually the sole purpose of the scissor mechanism is to provide stabilization. I tested this by pulling the rubber dome, leaving the scissors in, popping the key back on, and the key just lay flat.









Quite a clever design actually.


----------



## Doober

dis regard this post, because ocn always refreshes there threads weird for me

-doober


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


Man, when I was a student we didn't have $120, we didn't have any money to spend on keyboards, we didn't have gaming keyboards, and we didn't have discounts on gaming keyboards. We'd go through the trash to find pieces of charcoal to take our notes with on recycled toilet paper, we ate burned rat with mayonnaise ("Rat Royale"), or when we couldn't catch any, at McDonald's, and wore pitiful t-shirts without any print. At nights we'd cry ourselves to sleep and dream about the days we would possibly afford a brand new $10 rubber dome keyboard.


this was awesome


----------



## Doober

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson*


this was awesome


ya my dad does that **** to me all the time.

"well when I was your age..........."'

-doober


----------



## ripster

I'd never name my kid doober.


----------



## Doober

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


I'd never name my kid doober.


....so you named him Goober instead


----------



## drjoey1500

Should I get mx browns or mx blues? I can't decide, someone convince me







.


----------



## ripster

Depends if you like your women safe or dangerous. Browns are safe. Blues can get you in trouble sometimes but when it clicks it clicks.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fssbzz*


i thought scissors switch is basically rubber dome too.


Yep, but the Lycosa is just a plain old rubber dome keyboard with short keycaps.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


Should I get mx browns or mx blues? I can't decide, someone convince me







.


That depends on you.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

New point of discussion: http://stores.ebay.com/duckykeyboard/

*This is NOT actually affiliated with Ducky.* It's someone using their name to sell their products over eBay. How do I know this? Uhm... can't say. Just trust me when I say it's a hyper-reliable source.


----------



## ch_123

I think those guys were advertising on Geekhack before.

As long as you get the keyboard, who cares?


----------



## Tator Tot

Well the idea that Sell X is affiliated with Company X as being one in the same gives the buyer the illusion that after purchase support will be better.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;11887360*
> Well the idea that Sell X is affiliated with Company X as being one in the same gives the buyer the illusion that after purchase support will be better.


Also if you get bad support, it could hurt Ducky's reputation, when it was really just the random ebay seller doing it.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;11888123*
> Also if you get bad support, it could hurt Ducky's reputation, when it was really just the random ebay seller doing it.


That was the implication I was going for.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;11883652*
> New point of discussion: http://stores.ebay.com/duckykeyboard/
> 
> *This is NOT actually affiliated with Ducky.* It's someone using their name to sell their products over eBay. How do I know this? Uhm... can't say. Just trust me when I say it's a hyper-reliable source.


their store is here

Ducky Channel
Attn: Customer Service
2350 S. Watney Way. Ste. H,
Fairfield, CA 94533

vendor in geekhack
http://geekhack.org/forumdisplay.php?f=60

contact tru ducky
http://duckychannel.com.tw/en/contact.html


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fssbzz;11888321*
> their store is here
> 
> Ducky Channel
> Attn: Customer Service
> 2350 S. Watney Way. Ste. H,
> Fairfield, CA 94533
> 
> vendor in geekhack
> http://geekhack.org/forumdisplay.php?f=60
> 
> contact tru ducky
> http://duckychannel.com.tw/en/contact.html


Confirms it's not Ducky, but some other company.


----------



## fssbzz

those contact are from ducky official site.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fssbzz;11888816*
> those contact are from ducky official site.


And we are talking about the Ebay seller listed as "DuckyKeyboards"


----------



## fssbzz

but they got the exact same address from duckychannel.com.tw?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fssbzz;11888880*
> but they got the exact same address from duckychannel.com.tw?


No they are not. The DuckyKeyboard seller on Ebay is listed as selling from:
Albany, CA, United States
Not Fairfield, CA, United States


----------



## rpgman1

Looks like the Fairfield, CA address is for exchanges, repairs, and returns for those Ducky keyboards. Are they any good compared to other mechanical keyboards such as Das and Filco?


----------



## W4LNUT5

http://geekhack.org/forumdisplay.php?f=60

Going back to this link. Anyone else notice what is written just underneath "Today's Posts"?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5;11889423*
> http://geekhack.org/forumdisplay.php?f=60
> 
> Going back to this link. Anyone else notice what is written just underneath "Today's Posts"?
> 
> ]


That's because it's the vendor forum. Looks like they convinced geekhack they were an official store.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5;11889423*
> http://geekhack.org/forumdisplay.php?f=60
> 
> Going back to this link. Anyone else notice what is written just underneath "Today's Posts"?


They probably convinced someone at Geekhack that they are Ducky when they are not.


----------



## ripster

IMPOSTERS!









How's the revision to the OP going? Needs pics.


----------



## spartacus

Hey keyboard enthusiasts... (I didn't want to make another "help me pick a keyboard" thread)

I'm looking to make my first foray into the world of mechanical keyboards. I really like the look and simplicity of the Steelseries 6gv2 board, but I think the Cherry Brown switches might be better suited to my typing habits. Is there a similar styled keyboard in the $100 price range that I could get with the Brown switches?

Thanks!


----------



## Ikrin

You could always try to find a Filco in the geekhack classifieds. That's honestly your best bet, unless you're willing to spend $125+. If you're a student, you could always seek a discount from Das to use on their Silent.


----------



## purduepilot

Hey guys, sorry this thread is a bit long to read through, and the keyboards reviewed in the OP are a bit pricey. I've been using a cheap Dell multimedia keyboard (SK-8125) that I picked up for $5 at the university's surplus warehouse last year. It's getting annoying to type on since the keys are sometimes getting sticky and take inconsistent pressure to depress them, etc.

I don't want to spend a truckload of money on a replacement. I don't need illuminated keys, doesn't matter if the keys are labeled or not (though I'd prefer labels for the lesser-used keys like Page Up, Print Screen, and special characters), USB preferred. Can I get something decent for $50 that will last me ten years? I'm looking for a good cost/performance ratio rather than the Mercedes of keyboards.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Mayak might have this for sale still. I didn't see a sold next to it (but the thread is closed). Send him a pm if interested

Chicony KB-5181 Mechanical Keyboard (SMK Monterey Switches) - $30


----------



## Crazy9000

Model M boards can be found on ebay for cheap, and should survive the apocalypse.


----------



## purduepilot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5;11914595*
> Mayak might have this for sale still. I didn't see a sold next to it (but the thread is closed). Send him a pm if interested
> 
> Chicony KB-5181 Mechanical Keyboard (SMK Monterey Switches) - $30


Is that a PS/2 connector?


----------



## Ikrin

A Model M would require a special PS/2 to USB adapter, and you would need to factor in whether the noise would bother your roommates.


----------



## webwit

*Click* *Clack*
Check if this bothers your roommates. If it doesn't, try a Cherry MX Blue board. You'll get 'em.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purduepilot;11915480*
> Is that a PS/2 connector?


That's an AT connector. Would need an AT to PS/2 converter, but they're dirt cheap (like $1-$2).


----------



## Ikrin

Would then need a PS/2 to USB adapter if he's set on USB.


----------



## ripster

You can only talk to the OP in PMs. It's some weird rule they have here.


----------



## Fishes

Urg I need to buy a Cherry G80 with Black or Red switches. I can only find blue, and I dont have enough money for a Das or Steelseries 7G. Does anyone have one for sale or know where I can order one in?


----------



## webwit

Go for the reds. The Asian connection I got this from is now listed by Google as an attack site. I'm not sure what happened, so I'll just flaunt my Reds. They are better because of the color.














































Only some German and Korean weirdos have a MX Blacks thing.


----------



## Crazy9000

Better edit out the ps/2 adapter before Ripster sees it.


----------



## purduepilot

Okay, either USB or PS/2 would be fine.







Noise, however, is a bit of a concern since my girlfriend lives with me, my computer is in the bedroom, and I often work late into the night.

When people say Cherry Red or Cherry Blue or Cherry Brown, are those actual keyboards or just the mechanisms inside?


----------



## fssbzz

mechanisms inside.
read the first post
http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/4...ard-guide.html


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purduepilot*


Okay, either USB or PS/2 would be fine.







Noise, however, is a bit of a concern since my girlfriend lives with me, my computer is in the bedroom, and I often work late into the night.

When people say Cherry Red or Cherry Blue or Cherry Brown, are those actual keyboards or just the mechanisms inside?


Also note that generally all Cherry MX boards are going to be at least a bit louder then rubber domes, assuming you game or bottom out in general. That's mostly because you're having straight hardcore plastic on plastic action, while rubber dome boards are having a threesome with some rubber to make things quieter.


----------



## purduepilot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fssbzz;11920040*
> mechanisms inside.
> read the first post
> http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/491752-mechanical-keyboard-guide.html


That's what I thought, but a few posts back somebody posted a picture of a keyboard that had Cherry written on it in red, like the logo, so I was confused.


----------



## KipH

That keyboard is made by Cherry but Cherry also makes the key stems that many other companies use in their keyboards. If you look at that picture you see the red stems where they took the letters off? Those are the red switches. They are actually the colour that is in their name.

In general its like this:
Black if for pure gaming
Brown is mixed gaming and typing
Blue is typing
Clear and Red are hard to find, red nearly imposable.

At the price your looking for that used one from Mayak was selling would be great: here it is again. PM him


----------



## purduepilot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


That keyboard is made by Cherry but Cherry also makes the key stems that many other companies use in their keyboards. If you look at that picture you see the red stems where they took the letters off? Those are the red switches. They are actually the colour that is in their name.

In general its like this:
Black if for pure gaming
Brown is mixed gaming and typing
Blue is typing
Clear and Red are hard to find, red nearly imposable.

At the price your looking for that used one from Mayak was selling would be great: here it is again. PM him


I already PM'd him after your earlier suggestion, and he has sold the keyboard.

What would be the quietest option under $75? This one was listed in the OP. http://max-geek-llc.amazonwebstore.c...B000UC1W3C.htm Cherry Blues in this one.


----------



## Crazy9000

Blue's are the loudest Cherry switch.


----------



## gonX

I forgot, the reds are basically lighter blacks, right?

*EDIT*

purduepilot:
I have that keyboard, it's great. It used to have some soldering issues that would cause certain keys to stop working, which mine has, but that's supposed to be fixed in the recent models.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


I forgot, the reds are basically lighter blacks, right?


way way lighter then blacks IMO.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


I forgot, the reds are basically lighter blacks, right?


Yeah, they are only 45G.

Basically a MX-Brown without the tactile bump.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Yeah, they are only 45G.

Basically a MX-Brown *without the tactile bump*.


Boo...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purduepilot*


I already PM'd him after your earlier suggestion, and he has sold the keyboard.

What would be the quietest option under $75? This one was listed in the OP. http://max-geek-llc.amazonwebstore.c...B000UC1W3C.htm Cherry Blues in this one.


The Cherry MX Blues have a subtle mechanical click which isn't loud, but it's still a sound that is produced (it's quieter than the sound of bottoming out). So since it's likely that you'd be using your keyboard when she's trying to sleep, I recommend looking for a keyboard that has tactile, but non-clicky switches.

However, even a keyboard with tactile but non-clicky switches (such as the Cherry MX Browns) can still be considered a "noisy" keyboard when bottoming out. Bottoming out just means that the keycap is pressed all the way down quickly enough so that it makes a "clack" sound. With rubber dome keyboards (almost any easy-to-find keyboard), this is basically the way we have to type on them. So this means that when upgrading from a rubber dome keyboard to a mechanical keyboard, it'll be next to impossible to avoid bottoming out at first.

But fortunately, it's easy to reach a point where you stop bottoming out altogether. I've learned that the best way to accomplish this is to raise your wrists up while typing while simultaneously trying to type with a light touch. So instead of hitting the keys like we do on rubber domes, you'd work towards just light taps thereby making even less noise than you might be producing on a rubber dome keyboard. However, if your keyboard is higher than elbow height or belly button height, then this may feel uncomfortable.

But now if working towards not bottoming out doesn't sound like an option, then we would need to steer you towards a good keyboard with scissor switches. To get an idea of what that might be like, almost all laptops utilize the scissor switch technology.

Although, if you are far more interested in getting a mechanical keyboard, then check out the rubber band modification using dental bands:

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:8857

I haven't tried this yet, but it's supposed to help a little bit! And it could be just enough so that your girlfriend will have no trouble sleeping.


----------



## webwit

Quote:



The Cherry MX Blues have a subtle mechanical click which isn't loud


The Cherry MX Blues have a high pitched mechanical click which is loud and will drive peers or colleagues to insanity. It is said Van Gogh's brother Theo used a Cherry MX Blues board. However, there are also disadvantages.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Basically a MX-Brown without the tactile bump.


Basically an MX Brown so?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


The Cherry MX Blues have a high pitched mechanical click which is loud and will drive peers or colleagues to insanity. It is said Van Gogh's brother Theo used a Cherry MX Blues board. However, there are also disadvantages.


Oh please. The click of a single Cherry MX Blue is almost no different from the click that a nice retractable pen makes, only the Cherry MX Blue is quieter.


----------



## ch_123

By means of an experiment, I suggest sitting in a quiet room, full of people, and continuously clicking/retracting a pen at a rate of about 400-500 times per minute. Observe the reaction you get.

The issue I have with the noise of Blue Cherries is not that they're particularly loud, they just make a particularly squeaky noise that is guaranteed to drive other people insane.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


By means of an experiment, I suggest sitting in a quiet room, full of people, and continuously clicking/retracting a pen at a rate of about 400-500 times per minute. Observe the reaction you get.


Oh please give me a break. That's entirely different, and you know it.

Not only that, but it's like I said: the click that a retractable pen makes is louder than the click that a single Cherry MX Blue switch makes.


----------



## ch_123

How? Pretty decent simulation of using a Blue Cherry keyboard in a quiet office or library.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


How? Pretty decent simulation of using a Blue Cherry keyboard in a quiet office or library.


Because the click that a retractable pen makes is noticeably louder than the click that a single Cherry MX Blue switch makes.


----------



## ch_123

It's not as much the sheer decibel quantity of the noise that will annoy people as much as it's the high pitched, plasticky sound, and the fact that you'd be inflicting that sound several hundred times per second on the other people in the room if you can type quickly.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


It's not as much the sheer decibel quantity of the noise that will annoy people as much as it's the high pitched, plasticky sound, and the fact that you'd be inflicting that sound several hundred times per second on the other people in the room if you can type quickly.


What do you want me to say to this? Should I start telling people that the Cherry MX Blues are just as loud as Buckling Springs?

What is your goal here? It's beginning to feel like you're trying to troll me.


----------



## bloke226

From my experience I've brought my Filco MX-Blue into work. I live in cube land and I have people within 20ft of me. They could hear it, but they never complained to the point where it was like WOW STOP WORKING OVER THERE ITS SO LOUD ZOMGGGG. They just made a comment "wow I guess you got a new keyboard".

I asked my co-workers if it was an issue, and they said no. I felt bad that I was loud enough for them to actually make a comment so I returned my keyboard to home, but recently I just don't care anymore and have another Filco Blue in transit and plan to use it at work









EDIT: I'm not sure if the Blues are louder than a pen, but I think it depends on how tolerable the surrounding people are and how loud it is in general. My cube is near the break room and the plant/operations floor (I work at an industrial gas company) so the union guys kind of get loud. Even on rubber domes they can be noticeable in my work...so either way someone is gonna hear you


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


What is your goal here?


To point out that Blue Cherry switches aren't particularly subtle.

Quote:



It's beginning to feel like you're trying to troll me.


PROTIP: Not everyone who has a different opinion to you is trolling you. You really need to get that persecution complex of yours checked out.


----------



## bloke226

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


It's not as much the sheer decibel quantity of the noise that will annoy people as much as it's the high pitched, plasticky sound, and the fact that you'd be inflicting that sound several hundred times per second on the other people in the room if you can type quickly.


I think that's where my co-workers really noticed is when I get really into entering in accounts or typing up and e-mail is when I'm probably nearing 100wpm and all those clicks add up, and heaven forbid if I bottom out thats louder lol.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


To point out that Blue Cherry switches aren't particularly subtle.


You're making it sound like the clicks are loud and obnoxious, almost as if it's louder than the clicks made by Buckling Springs. You're also giving me the impression that all you want to do is negate everything I say (you see, today isn't the first example of this).

Did I say that the click is *very* subtle? Nope. All I said is that it's subtle. It's not like I'm saying that they're hard to hear, am I? However, the clicks are quieter than the sound of bottoming out. But take notice here that I did not say that they're _*significantly*_ quieter, but just that they are quieter. How much quieter are they? It's enough of a difference to notice.

So can you please get off my case now? Damn, dude. It's like you think someone is going to read what I'm saying and go _"zomg so that means the clicks are really quiet! I'm gonna get a keyboard with the Cherry MX Blues right now!!!!!"_. But you see, that's not going to happen. I've been describing the click as "subtle" since about April of 2010, and I have never had anyone misunderstand me. You're the first person to get all up in my face about it, and so I would appreciate it if you'd back off. What's the big deal here? It's not like I'm saying something like, _"The clicks of the Cherry MX Blues are 90% quieter than Buckling Springs"._


----------



## gonX

But people who aren't used to the mechanical keyboards are going to bottom out like crazy. So it's gonna be audible.


----------



## webwit

I find the Cherry MX Blues loud and obnoxious, almost as if it's louder than the clicks made by Buckling Springs. Also, I don't really mind hearing a person on Buckling Springs. Sounds like Work. The Cherry Blues sound like Mr. T flaunting his gold. YOMV.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


But people who aren't used to the mechanical keyboards are going to bottom out like crazy. So it's gonna be audible.


But that's the sound of bottoming out, and I already covered it.









*Edit:* holy crap. I guess I'm not wanted here anymore.


----------



## ch_123

The irony here is that I was backing up something that someone else said. But cool sperge rage, bro. Bonus marks for putting words in my mouth about buckling springs and the like.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


The irony here is that I was backing up something that someone else said. But cool sperge rage bro. Bonus marks for putting words in my mouth about buckling springs and the like.


Thanks for making it clear that you really are just trying to troll me.

*Edit:* I don't have time for this right now.


----------



## webwit

Quote:



Thanks for making it clear that you really are just trying to troll me.

*Edit:* I don't have time for this right now.


"I lost an argument so now the other guy is a troll, and I don't have *cough* time for this right now"


----------



## ch_123

The warning sign is when they have a different perspective to you. One Mechanical Keyboard Guide, One Point of View!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;11922989*
> Basically an MX Brown so?


I don't understand the question you're asking.

Or are you just saying that my statement was redundant?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *webwit;11923374*
> http://webwit.nl/input/misc/switches_by_personality.jpg


So my Clear's are somewhere between a crazy guy an Nightwing... I'm not sure if I like my positioning in this chart


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;11923728*
> I don't understand the question you're asking.
> 
> Or are you just saying that my statement was redundant?
> 
> So my Clear's are somewhere between a crazy guy an Nightwing... I'm not sure if I like my positioning in this chart


He's saying that the browns barely have a tactile bump.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11923814*
> He's saying that the browns barely have a tactile bump.


It might not be as noticeable as any of the clicky switches, but I still find it noticeable enough to regard it every time that I type. That bump is how I keep from bottoming out on Tactile switches (Browns & Clears.)

And reds are definitely different than browns in terms of feel. They are quick, light, and very linear. You hardly notice depressing them your first couple go abouts and it takes time to practice not bottoming out. A lot of time for that matter.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;11923728*
> I don't understand the question you're asking.
> 
> Or are you just saying that my statement was redundant?
> 
> So my Clear's are somewhere between a crazy guy an Nightwing... I'm not sure if I like my positioning in this chart


That's not a crazy guy! That's techno viking. look him up on youtube. Funny guy.

What I don't understand is the choice of people on the chart. I have browns and so am like nighwing? I am more like Darkwing Duck. How does Mr. T have less force than Mr. Spock? And they both are quiet? Odd choices.

I like my browns but my wife hates the click of bottoming out, even after I told her it was a clack.

I would look at the Razor keyboard with modified blues. Its supposed to be nice. Or the one I have is an Irocks KR 6230. Its good but slightly odd layout. I love the browns though.


----------



## Shane1244

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *webwit;11923515*
> "I lost an argument so now the other guy is a troll, and I don't have *cough* time for this right now"


hahha, so true.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;11923728*
> I don't understand the question you're asking.
> 
> Or are you just saying that my statement was redundant?


Given the limited tactility in brown Cherry switches, I can't imagine that a Red Cherry would feel that much different. I think the hype around them is purely to do with supply and demand.

Admittedly, my impressions are formed by an old Brown Cherry keyboard, so perhaps a newer one is more tactile.


----------



## Crazy9000

My mom can't stand the noise of blues. The click really can make a difference.


----------



## Lanx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;11923065*
> By means of an experiment, I suggest sitting in a quiet room, full of people, and continuously clicking/retracting a pen at a rate of about 400-500 times per minute. Observe the reaction you get.
> 
> The issue I have with the noise of Blue Cherries is not that they're particularly loud, they just make a particularly squeaky noise that is guaranteed to drive other people insane.


blues make a "ting" sound to me, which to me sounds 1 level more bearable than let's say nails on a chalkboard.


----------



## webwit

Red Cherries are Green Alps clones. You have to be careful with Green Alps. Only the real complicated ones are nice.










These are not as good:










Ripster will explain the differences. He's an Alps expert.


----------



## MechanicalHand

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiicola


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *webwit;11926180*
> Red Cherries are Green Alps clones. You have to be careful with Green Alps. Only the real complicated ones are nice.
> 
> These are not as good:
> 
> Ripster will explain the differences. He's an Alps expert.


I think I've even figured out why those Green/Blue/Orange collectors may not be crazy but am still pulling together all the pics and data.

Good thing we get along or I'd report your "Blow Me" post!


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;11925985*
> My mom can't stand the noise of blues. The click really can make a difference.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lanx;11926056*
> blues make a "ting" sound to me, which to me sounds 1 level more bearable than let's say nails on a chalkboard.


You gentleman are _clearly_ trolling.


----------



## ripster

ALPS are definitely in the OP (although a bit sparse on details).


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;11924842*
> Given the limited tactility in brown Cherry switches, I can't imagine that a Red Cherry would feel that much different. I think the hype around them is purely to do with supply and demand.
> 
> Admittedly, my impressions are formed by an old Brown Cherry keyboard, so perhaps a newer one is more tactile.


Well my Clears haven't lost their tactility yet.

I got reds purely on the basis of less force might be nicer for typing (though that wasn't the outcome) but they were still nice switches.
Smooth and light I can say though that some older used Tactile boards I've used definitely don't feel as tactile as newer ones; I have no idea how much use it takes to wear one down.


----------



## ch_123

Clears are supposedly a good deal more tactile than Browns. I think the slider design is different, as opposed to it just being the Brown with a stiffer spring.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;11929180*
> Clears are supposedly a good deal more tactile than Browns. I think the slider design is different, as opposed to it just being the Brown with a stiffer spring.


I honestly can't tell much of a different. I used Scroll Lock to test (Since I never use that switch) and besides the force difference the bump itself feels the same.

And with both boards in more of a worn in state the tactility still feels the same and is pretty much universal.

Honestly though; I'd love more of a pronounced bump on either. It would be much easier to adjust to only depressing the switch half way. Though; they are still by no means terrible.
Browns and clears just feel equally as tactile.


----------



## matt1129

`i want a keyboard for gaming, mechanical of course. the games i play are BFBC2, Star craft 2, and other fps. i also do alot of tpying for school work and chatting. this leads me to believe i need the MX brown switches. can someone PLEASE recommend a keyboard around $100 with mx browns that is high quality.
also, are mx browns any nicer than a regular dome keyboard, becuase of the destitute clicks made by blues? i dont want a loud keyboard so i think browns should suffice. thanks so much
links too please, im in the US, and on a budget. Too bad filco isnt in the US anymore


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matt1129;11929387*
> `i want a keyboard for gaming, mechanical of course. the games i play are BFBC2, Star craft 2, and other fps. i also do alot of tpying for school work and chatting. this leads me to believe i need the MX brown switches. can someone PLEASE recommend a keyboard around $100 with mx browns that is high quality.
> also, are mx browns any nicer than a regular dome keyboard, becuase of the destitute clicks made by blues? i dont want a loud keyboard so i think browns should suffice. thanks so much
> links too please, im in the US, and on a budget. Too bad filco isnt in the US anymore


The first page had a whole list of boards with X switch type.
I would say go for a Das.


----------



## matt1129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thisispatrick;11929573*
> The first page had a whole list of boards with X switch type.
> I would say go for a Das.


thats 130 man, are there any cheaper keyboards? and does the das have browns?


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matt1129;11929581*
> thats 130 man, are there any cheaper keyboards? and does the das have browns?


The Das can be lowered to ~$100 if you can use the educational discount.
Yes the Das has browns or blues.


----------



## ch_123

I'd wait to see how much the Leopolds are going to cost. I think EliteKeyboards will have them in a few weeks.


----------



## maximus20895

They have das browns. They are the silent ones. If you are student, email them about the student discount which is 24%. These are mechanical keyboards, they are cheap plastic junk potato mush keyboards. $100 is about the cheapest you can get except for the Unicomp I think.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matt1129;11929581*
> thats 130 man, are there any cheaper keyboards? and does the das have browns?


The Das Model S Silent does. Right now that's all there is in the US. Next month or later they'll have Leopolds (at least I think they'll have brown ones). Not sure what the quality or price on those is.

There's a student discount too.

And I have the Das, it's probably my favorite part of my computer


----------



## maximus20895

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;11929618*
> I'd wait to see how much the Leopolds are going to cost. I think EliteKeyboards will have them in a few weeks.


They won't be less than $100.

http://keyboardporn.com/mx-switch/leopold-fc200r-sample/


----------



## matt1129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;11929618*
> I'd wait to see how much the Leopolds are going to cost. I think EliteKeyboards will have them in a few weeks.


are those the keyboards that are supposed to be like majestouches?
im looking to spend about 100, not 150


----------



## ch_123

The non-NKRO fullsize Filcos were $109. I'd imagine that the Leopolds will be in the same price tag.

There's only one sub-$100 Cherry Brown board I can think of, some iRocks board. Not sure if its still available, and it has a weird layout.


----------



## matt1129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


The non-NKRO fullsize Filcos were $109. I'd imagine that the Leopolds will be in the same price tag.

There's only one sub-$100 Cherry Brown board I can think of, some iRocks board. Not sure if its still available, and it has a weird layout.











alright so will the browns feel like a rubber dome because they arent blues? or is the tactile feedback still the same


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matt1129;11930160*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alright so will the browns feel like a rubber dome because they arent blues? or is the tactile feedback still the same


They still have a tactile feedback but not as pronounced as blues (and don't have the click). And they certainly don't feel like rubber domes.


----------



## matt1129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


They still have a tactile feedback but not as pronounced as blues (and don't have the click). And they certainly don't feel like rubber domes.


so for gaming should i get blues or browns. i already listed my games. fps and SC2
i dont want a loud click but ive never used a mech before. (when i was a toddler probably)


----------



## ch_123

Browns are better than rubber domes in that they aren't mushy or wear prone. However, the tactility is quite subtle compared to something like the Blue Cherry. In general, I'd prefer the Blue switches to Brown for typing, but the Browns for gaming - there are issues with the Blue switches with double tapping.


----------



## matt1129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;11930288*
> Browns are better than rubber domes in that they aren't mushy or wear prone. However, the tactility is quite subtle compared to something like the Blue Cherry. In general, I'd prefer the Blue switches to Brown for typing, but the Browns for gaming - there are issues with the Blue switches with double tapping.


and now i find myself in a perplexing situation. do i get the confident click of each keystroke, or stay a step above the boring rubber dome response noise. and tips? is brown alot more casual than blue and close to rubber dome? does brown feel anything like rubber dome?


----------



## ch_123

It's hard to compare them because the type of tactility that you get from a rubber dome is different to that from a mechanical switch. The rubber domes feel mushy and unsubstantial due to the fact that you're depressing a formed piece of rubber. In a Cherry switch, you're pressing down on a spring loaded slider, which catches a metal arm with little 'teeth'. It feels far more substantial and solid.

Compared with other mechanical switch types, Brown cherries are not particularly tactile. That said, compared with a rubber dome, it will feel more substantial, springy, and not mushy at all. A definite improvement.


----------



## matt1129

which do most people prefer, brown or blue


----------



## ch_123

I think it's fair to say that most people prefer the Blues. I certainly do.

That said, the last keyswitch poll on Geekhack showed a surge in popularity for Browns. Let me try and find it.


----------



## thiru

Not here.

http://www.overclock.net/computer-peripherals/793977-poll-favorite-mechanical-keyboard-switch.html


----------



## Crazy9000

Topre would have won if more people had used them.


----------



## ch_123

Without meaning to be snobby, I much prefer Geekhack ones for the simple reason that people on Geekhack are far more likely to have tried a representative sample of different keyswitch types. I'd imagine that OCN ones will tend to whatever switch is in the most popular mechanical gaming keyboard at the moment.

One where Brown is supposedly the most popular switch...

I prefer this one. 89 people had the right idea


----------



## matt1129

w/e i think ill be happy with browns. after all i do need them for gaming too, and im not a master typist. browns feel nice right, like people say blues feel great type on?


----------



## ch_123

Blues are nicer, but Browns are a definite step up from a rubber dome.

Point is that there's lots of happy people out there with Browns, so it should be a safe bet.
Quote:


> Topre would have won if more people had used them.


I feel the same about Der Uberswitchen










In Beam We Trust!


----------



## matt1129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;11930507*
> Blues are nicer, but Browns are a definite step up from a rubber dome.
> 
> Point is that there's lots of happy people out there with Browns, so it should be a safe bet.


but i mean i would like the blues, but will it be impossible to game? is there double tap problem really huge?


----------



## Crazy9000

Browns are a safer bet. My Das with blues is the least used keyboard I've ever owned.


----------



## matt1129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;11930519*
> Browns are a safer bet. My Das with blues is the least used keyboard I've ever owned.


whys that?
can u convince me to get browns? im definitely getting a das


----------



## mtbiker033

i have a das ultimate and imho, it is that, ultimate...I have never had a better typing/gaming experience than with this board.

it's so funny to have friends sit down to use my pc, look at my keyboard, and pause...wth?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *matt1129*


but i mean i would like the blues, but will it be impossible to game?


No. It's kinda weird, but definitely not impossible. Many people get used to it.

Tbh, if the noise isn't a huge issue, I'd get a Blue Cherry keyboard.


----------



## matt1129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


No. It's kinda weird, but definitely not impossible. Many people get used to it.

Tbh, if the noise isn't a huge issue, I'd get a Blue Cherry keyboard.


lol i honestly have to idea what do to.
can u tell me this. how are the blues nicer than the browns or vice versa. what are the advantages.


----------



## webwit

These polls are more like fashion polls. In geekhack's case it says: What sold well at EK the last few monts? Which is based on what's available and how loud a few trendsetters were. I like Browns though. Definitely not the best switch, but perhaps the best compromise switch. Nice light feel and doesn't make much noise. I like them in a working environment with people around me.


----------



## ch_123

Blues have a more pronounced tactility. Many people also like the clicky sound, although this is a matter of preference, and depends on how friendly you are with the people who you use the keyboard near









The browns are slightly lower force, and some people prefer the quiet.

Oh, another difference between the browns and rubber domes is that the browns require a lot less force to press. Browns require about 45g of force, Blues about 55g. Rubber domes are usually in the 55-65g region IIRC.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *matt1129*


whys that?
can u convince me to get browns? im definitely getting a das


Since I can't really game on the blue switches, I just use the das on my HTPC. It's main purpose in life is now to annoy my girlfriend when she tries to type in her email password. I guess I'll have to get printed keys one of these days.

Data suggests anywhere from 5-20% of gamers have trouble gaming on blue switches. It's not a huge gamble I guess, but I think the browns are pretty nice.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;11930476*
> Without meaning to be snobby, I much prefer Geekhack ones for the simple reason that people on Geekhack are far more likely to have tried a representative sample of different keyswitch types. I'd imagine that OCN ones will tend to whatever switch is in the most popular mechanical gaming keyboard at the moment.
> 
> One where Brown is supposedly the most popular switch...
> 
> I prefer this one. 89 people had the right idea


You're right.
But geekhack members probably don't game as much as people here.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *webwit;11930591*
> Which is based on what's available and how loud a few trendsetters were.


Never had much success with Unicomp brainwashing. People just aren't interested in well made keyboards with key legends that wont wear off in a week...


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;11930605*
> You're right.
> But geekhack members probably don't game as much as people here.


Depends. But I think the perspective that comes from using multiple switch types is far more important. A comparison poll is absolutely useless when people vote for the only switch type they've ever used.


----------



## matt1129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;11930592*
> Blues have a more pronounced tactility. Many people also like the clicky sound, although this is a matter of preference, and depends on how friendly you are with the people who you use the keyboard near
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The browns are slightly lower force, and some people prefer the quiet.
> 
> Oh, another difference between the browns and rubber domes is that the browns require a lot less force to press. Browns require about 45g of force, Blues about 55g. Rubber domes are usually in the 55-65g region IIRC.


alright thanks i think im gonna get the blue now. what u said about noise to me doesnt matter because im in my room on the ground floor alone, and also, im sure i would like the tactility
as for fps games, using WASD isnt weird is it? and what about massing drones in starcraft? DDDDDD? would i be able to make 4 drones in a second? or is it a long tedious process for multiple keystrokes


----------



## webwit

Me, I prefer Browns over Blues because I'm not a big fan of the leaf click. Not talking about the sound here. The feel. It feels to me like something artificial has been put in the way of the spring. It's a scruffy implementation. In relative terms to a beam spring of course. Compared to rubber domes they are far superior.

There's only one solution to this. Buy more keyboards.


----------



## matt1129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *matt1129*


alright thanks i think im gonna get the blue now. what u said about noise to me doesnt matter because im in my room on the ground floor alone, and also, im sure i would like the tactility
as for fps games, using WASD isnt weird is it? and what about massing drones in starcraft? DDDDDD? would i be able to make 4 drones in a second? or is it a long tedious process for multiple keystrokes


can anyone convince me not to? any terrible experiences as a first time mech user using blues?


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *matt1129*


alright thanks i think im gonna get the blue now. what u said about noise to me doesnt matter because im in my room on the ground floor alone, and also, im sure i would like the tactility
as for fps games, using WASD isnt weird is it? and what about massing drones in starcraft? DDDDDD? would i be able to make 4 drones in a second? or is it a long tedious process for multiple keystrokes


If you don't lift your finger far enough between presses you might be annoyed with blues.

You can get used to it though, or just get browns.


----------



## matt1129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


If you don't lift your finger far enough between presses you might be annoyed with blues.

You can get used to it though, or just get browns.


i guess ill order the blues. if i hate them terribly ill return it and get the browns


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


Me, I prefer Browns over Blues because I'm not a big fan of the leaf click. Not talking about the sound here. The feel. It feels to me like something artificial has been put in the way of the spring. It's a scruffy implementation. In relative terms to a beam spring of course. Compared to rubber domes they are far superior.

There's only one solution to this. Buy more keyboards.


The solution here is to never try a Beam Spring board.

I dunno, I never decided whether I preferred clicky Cherry MX or clicky Alps CM. Both interesting, but yet so flawed in their own special ways.


----------



## webwit

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Never had much success with Unicomp brainwashing. People just aren't interested in well made keyboards with key legends that wont wear off in a week...










Yeah but compare EK marketing and product line to Unicomp marketing and product line. Btw, Unicomp's email is back alive after 50 days.


----------



## ch_123

Excellent. I'll be able to ask about APL keycaps if/when ever those ******* Aussies sell me one of those terminal Model F boards.

matt1129: Speaking of good keyboards on a tight budget... Ever consider a Unicomp?


----------



## webwit

I like my best clicky vertical leaf Alps more than Cherry Blues, because I don't feel that tactile bump as something in the way, and in that regard they are smoother. These also don't have the Cherry Blue Fire Button/key repeat problem. But the bump is more at the top and you have to like that.


----------



## matt1129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;11930695*
> Excellent. I'll be able to ask about APL keycaps if/when ever those ******* Aussies sell me one of those terminal Model F boards.
> 
> matt1129: Speaking of good keyboards on a tight budget... Ever consider a Unicomp?


is it better than the das keyboard? im willing to drop 102 after studen discount


----------



## ch_123

Yes. And at a mere $69 -










A bit old fashioned looking, but -

1. Great build quality and durability
2. Great keyswitch mechanism - very clicky/tactile, doesnt have double tapping problem.
3. Keycaps don't have wear problems like Das and most Cherry switch keyboards do.
4. The company gives great support, it's easy to get replacement parts, custom keycaps, and there's lots of mods you can do to them.

Link


----------



## maximus20895

The Das is a great keyboard. You are over thinking this way to much. Blues are fine to game on. Just buy one and if you don't like it, return it. Very simple.


----------



## matt1129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Yes. And at a mere $69 -










A bit old fashioned looking, but -

1. Great build quality and durability
2. Great keyswitch mechanism - very clicky/tactile, doesnt have double tapping problem.
3. Keycaps don't have wear problems like Das and most Cherry switch keyboards do.
4. The company gives great support, it's easy to get replacement parts, custom keycaps, and there's lots of mods you can do to them.

Link


so the performance and noise would be identical?


----------



## ch_123

Noise is somewhat louder, but it makes a more neutral noise than the high pitched click of the Blue Cherry.

I recommend this. There's a sound clip near the bottom of a mouse button clicking that you can use to calibrate your volume. There's a clip of a Unicomp, and of a Filco with Blue switches that would sound the same as a Blue switch Das.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matt1129;11930774*
> so the performance and noise would be identical?


I'm not sure what you want us to say. Just look up some videos and imagine yourself typing on them, and see which one sounds like it would be the best for you.

You can't say one keyboard is "better", since different people like completely different boards for various reasons. All we can do is tell you which ones we like, and the features they have.


----------



## matt1129

im asking because it looks like one of the old keyboards where the bottom out would be so far down, like every key you hit is sticking your finger in a hole. is thebottom out the same for the das and unicomp? and can i get a link where to buy it please


----------



## matt1129

im digging the deep noise on the unicomp actually, and its more in my budget. ill probably get that. where can i buy it


----------



## Crazy9000

http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/cus101usenon.html

Choose the black with metallic gray color scheme since it's more interesting.


----------



## ch_123

On a Das, the actuation point is about half way down, on a Unicomp, it's a little below half way down. In both cases, the distance of key travel is the same as that of a rubber dome, and because you dont have to press all the way down to the bottom, they dont have that problem at all.

With the Unicomp, I gave a link in my post about it. There should be some way to add it to your basket or whatnot.


----------



## matt1129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/cus101usenon.html

Choose the black with metallic gray color scheme since it's more interesting.


o wait this is buckling spring? i thought it was mx blue. nvm then


----------



## ch_123

Yes, the Spacesaver is a buckling spring board. The link is http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/en104bl.html.

Quote:



http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/cus101usenon.html

Choose the black with metallic gray color scheme since it's more interesting.


The 101-key is only available in White. The 104 is only available in Grey/Black.


----------



## matt1129

ughhhhhhhh. how do bucklings differ from a blue?


----------



## maximus20895

Read:

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?tit...sary+and+Links


----------



## matt1129

70g of activation force? is that alot? are people able to type fast on bucklings?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *matt1129*


ughhhhhhhh. how do bucklings differ from a blue?


Buckling springs are stiffer, but are more tactile and substantial feeling, more durable, somewhat louder (but not as high pitched as the Blue Cherry).

I am admittedly somewhat biased towards buckling springs, so if anyone wants to argue otherwise, be my guest









Btw - Unicomps are more like 65g. Older IBMs were in the region of 70g. By comparison, an average rubber dome is about 60g. Blue Cherries are 55g.


----------



## webwit

I recommend the IBM Model M Simulator. Because I'm now at nr. 16 if you search for IBM Model M. I also recommend you link to it.


----------



## matt1129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Buckling springs are stiffer, but are more tactile and substantial feeling, more durable, somewhat louder (but not as high pitched as the Blue Cherry).

I am admittedly somewhat biased towards buckling springs, so if anyone wants to argue otherwise, be my guest










and how is this one for gaming and such? typing?


----------



## ch_123

In my opinion (and indeed the opinion of many others) they're the finest typing keyboard that is still in production.

Gaming - they lack the double tapping issues that the Blue Cherry has. They aren't NKRO, but I've played a lot of games on them, and had no blocking issues worth noting.

Ripster always goes on about how his son plays TF2 on his Unicomp Spacesaver and pwns all noobies, etc.


----------



## matt1129

i ordered it. u know why? i remembered in my childhood the movies of hackers hitting the enter button
that did it for me
i dont even know why
i 3 dayed it. $83 bucks not bad


----------



## ch_123

Nice. Did you get the black Spacesaver?


----------



## matt1129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Nice. Did you get the black Spacesaver?


yep!


----------



## v193r

what is the name of the sound a key makes when it pops up? also why does it make it. my hhkb is almost silent when bottomin out but on the way back up it makes a sound.


----------



## Crazy9000

I would call that sound strange. My realforce doesn't do that.


----------



## Bennylava

Ok, a question for the keyboard guy, the thread starter. Also anyone else who might know heh.

Which ergonomic keyboard, has the biggest angle, between the keys that are split? Which one has the keys split the most? What I mean is, which one is closest to having the keys that are split, almost upside down on top of each other. I have a wrist problem and I need my hands to be very nearly facing each other when I type. Using a non ergonomic keyboard is out of the question for me.

The fingers of each hand need to be almost reaching out to touch each the opposite hand, when I type. That is the kind of keyboard that I'm looking for. I'd like it to be wireless if possible but I would settle for wired. And I hold no illusions of finding a mechanical one with this feature.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bennylava*


Ok, a question for the keyboard guy, the thread starter. Also anyone else who might know heh.

Which ergonomic keyboard, has the biggest angle, between the keys that are split? Which one has the keys split the most? What I mean is, which one is closest to having the keys that are split, almost upside down on top of each other. I have a wrist problem and I need my hands to be very nearly facing each other when I type. Using a non ergonomic keyboard is out of the question for me.

The fingers of each hand need to be almost reaching out to touch each the opposite hand, when I type. That is the kind of keyboard that I'm looking for. I'd like it to be wireless if possible but I would settle for wired. And I hold no illusions of finding a mechanical one with this feature.


http://cgi.ebay.com/Freestyle-Solo-E...item51906a7bd5


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*












Maybe whatever this one is.


----------



## webwit

IBM Model M15.


----------



## gonX

If you play any kind of games that require double tapping, get the a keyboard with MX Browns for safety. After I started playing Unreal again I've noticed how it's actually kind of a huge issue.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v193r;11932076*
> what is the name of the sound a key makes when it pops up? also why does it make it. my hhkb is almost silent when bottomin out but on the way back up it makes a sound.


Sounds like the so-called "Topre fart"... Might want to check out the Topre wiki on Geekhack.


----------



## v193r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;11935368*
> Sounds like the so-called "Topre fart"... Might want to check out the Topre wiki on Geekhack.


the topre fart is not that. its when you leave ur kb alone then you hear a pop which comes from the cup coming up again. after using a hhkb2 for while is get less and less frequent even though it wasnt that annoyin to begin with.

what is the opposite of "the sound of a key bottoming out"...it would be the sound of a key poping back up and i was just wondering if there was a name for that and why it happens.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v193r;11938451*
> the topre fart is not that. its when you leave ur kb alone then you hear a pop which comes from the cup coming up again. after using a hhkb2 for while is get less and less frequent even though it wasnt that annoyin to begin with.
> 
> what is the opposite of "the sound of a key bottoming out"...it would be the sound of a key poping back up and i was just wondering if there was a name for that and why it happens.


Hmm... I suppose we can call it "key pop".


----------



## purduepilot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


The Cherry MX Blues have a subtle mechanical click which isn't loud, but it's still a sound that is produced (it's quieter than the sound of bottoming out). So since it's likely that you'd be using your keyboard when she's trying to sleep, I recommend looking for a keyboard that has tactile, but non-clicky switches.

However, even a keyboard with tactile but non-clicky switches (such as the Cherry MX Browns) can still be considered a "noisy" keyboard when bottoming out. Bottoming out just means that the keycap is pressed all the way down quickly enough so that it makes a "clack" sound. With rubber dome keyboards (almost any easy-to-find keyboard), this is basically the way we have to type on them. So this means that when upgrading from a rubber dome keyboard to a mechanical keyboard, it'll be next to impossible to avoid bottoming out at first.

But fortunately, it's easy to reach a point where you stop bottoming out altogether. I've learned that the best way to accomplish this is to raise your wrists up while typing while simultaneously trying to type with a light touch. So instead of hitting the keys like we do on rubber domes, you'd work towards just light taps thereby making even less noise than you might be producing on a rubber dome keyboard. However, if your keyboard is higher than elbow height or belly button height, then this may feel uncomfortable.

But now if working towards not bottoming out doesn't sound like an option, then we would need to steer you towards a good keyboard with scissor switches. To get an idea of what that might be like, almost all laptops utilize the scissor switch technology.

Although, if you are far more interested in getting a mechanical keyboard, then check out the rubber band modification using dental bands:

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:8857

I haven't tried this yet, but it's supposed to help a little bit! And it could be just enough so that your girlfriend will have no trouble sleeping.


Assuming I get used to the keyboard after a time and am no longer bottoming out, an MX Brown keyboard would be no louder than a cheap rubber dome keyboard, right? As long as I'm not getting a keyboard that's significantly louder than my current Dell POS, I don't think noise will be an issue.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thisispatrick*


The Das can be lowered to ~$100 if you can use the educational discount.
Yes the Das has browns or blues.


The Das Silent is one that I was looking at, but price was keeping me away. 24% discount is quite nice, and I think I can probably spend $100 on a quality keyboard without feeling too guilty. Any last advice from anyone before I pull the trigger on the Das Professional Silent? http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional-silent/


----------



## thiru

If you're gaming, the blank keyboards are extremely annoying with one hand having to reach all the keys blindly.


----------



## purduepilot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


If you're gaming, the blank keyboards are extremely annoying with one hand having to reach all the keys blindly.


Not sure if that was for me or the other guy, but I'm planning to get the one with the key labels. I don't need to look at the keys when I'm typing normally, but I don't use the special characters very often so I need those.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purduepilot*


Not sure if that was for me or the other guy, but I'm planning to get the one with the key labels. I don't need to look at the keys when I'm typing normally, but I don't use the special characters very often so I need those.










Ultimate version doesn't have labels.


----------



## maximus20895

The professional is the printed ones and the ultimate is the non-printed ones. I got the Ultimate and it is suppose to be here on Monday. I don't know the special characters either, but I will learn.


----------



## purduepilot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Ultimate version doesn't have labels.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *maximus20895*


The professional is the printed ones and the ultimate is the non-printed ones. I got the Ultimate and it is suppose to be here on Monday. I don't know the special characters either, but I will learn.


http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional-silent/

Pictures show labels.

edit: My bad--I put the wrong name in the other post.


----------



## fssbzz

good thing about the blank, u never have to worry about the font fade away
and it is good for you to learn touch typing.


----------



## maximus20895

Right, you are on the wrong forum if you don't know how to type without looking at your keyboard...

When you don't know other things such as special characters, the blank keys make you learn. It also looks much better and keeps people off.


----------



## purduepilot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fssbzz;11940564*
> good thing about the blank, u never have to worry about the font fade away
> and it is good for you to learn touch typing.


I've been typing like a secretary ever since I took the class in seventh grade. Just hardly ever use special characters so I do need to look at those. How often do you use the # symbol or the | symbol? lol


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maximus20895;11940611*
> keeps people off.


that's another good thing i like about blank kb.


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purduepilot*


I've been typing like a secretary ever since I took the class in seventh grade. Just hardly ever use special characters so I do need to look at those. How often do you use the # symbol or the | symbol? lol


ya i know. i don use those symbol much either.
that's the reason i like blank kb. it looks so much nicer.
is either blank or double shot, or pbt sublimation.


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


If you're gaming, the blank keyboards are extremely annoying with one hand having to reach all the keys blindly.


I don't have that issue. As in, I very rarely look at my keyboard, even though I have to use keys like I and O pretty frequently.


----------



## fssbzz

Those bump on the F and J will helps too, if you go issue with the blank keyboard.


----------



## maximus20895

Yea, that too. What is that. It looks like the F is totally gone on that one. Hmm.


----------



## fssbzz

that's pbt lasered engraved key cap.
font will never fade away.


----------



## maximus20895

Oh, that's really cool. What keyboard is that?


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *maximus20895*


Oh, that's really cool. What keyboard is that?


ducky 1087 with kbc cap.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purduepilot;11940232*
> Assuming I get used to the keyboard after a time and am no longer bottoming out, an MX Brown keyboard would be no louder than a cheap rubber dome keyboard, right? As long as I'm not getting a keyboard that's significantly louder than my current Dell POS, I don't think noise will be an issue.
> 
> The Das Silent is one that I was looking at, but price was keeping me away. 24% discount is quite nice, and I think I can probably spend $100 on a quality keyboard without feeling too guilty. Any last advice from anyone before I pull the trigger on the Das Professional Silent? http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional-silent/


A good mechanical keyboard with the Browns like the Das Model S Professional Silent should produce about the same decibel level due to the inevitable bottoming out that you'll be doing at first (due to being accustomed to typing on the rubber domes), but all the sounds that the keyboard produces are easier on the ears thanks to the high level of quality.

But now the clicks of the Cherry MX Blues add an increased sense of precision, except there is that slight chance that you may have a little bit of trouble double tapping. However, I don't have that problem because when I want 2 or more fast keystrokes right in a row, I can't help but raise my finger all the way off the key in between strokes (that is, when imagining this in slow motion). So if you do the same thing, then the Cherry MX Blues would definitely be an option.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fssbzz;11941380*
> ducky 1087 with kbc cap.


Where does one get kbc caps?


----------



## fssbzz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikrin;11944636*
> Where does one get kbc caps?


imported from china.


----------



## purduepilot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11943764*
> A good mechanical keyboard with the Browns like the Das Model S Professional Silent should produce about the same decibel level due to the inevitable bottoming out that you'll be doing at first (due to being accustomed to typing on the rubber domes), but all the sounds that the keyboard produces are easier on the ears thanks to the high level of quality.
> 
> But now the clicks of the Cherry MX Blues add an increased sense of precision, except there is that slight chance that you may have a little bit of trouble double tapping. However, I don't have that problem because when I want 2 or more fast keystrokes right in a row, I can't help but raise my finger all the way off the key in between strokes (that is, when imagining this in slow motion). So if you do the same thing, then the Cherry MX Blues would definitely be an option.


Good to know--thanks! I think I'll get the Das Professional Silent when they email me back about the educational discount.


----------



## maximus20895

Why not the blues


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purduepilot;11946259*
> Good to know--thanks! I think I'll get the Das Professional Silent when they email me back about the educational discount.


As long as you are 100% sure!

But now I remember someone said way earlier (like a couple of days ago now) that the Cherry MX Blues have an actuation force of 55g. The original post of this thread (the Mechanical Keyboard Guide) says it's 50g. Going further, the Cherry MX Whites are said to be like a stiffer Brown and even stiffer than the Blues. If this is true, then the Cherry MX Blues are not 55g, but 50g. Or, maybe it's that the Clears are 60g, but the documentation just says 55g. I don't know.

Regardless of all of that, I can just tell you this: typing on the Cherry MX Blues is a real pleasure. So, don't be afraid of the Blues if you think they might be too stiff or something.


----------



## maximus20895

Yea blues ftw!


----------



## Ikrin

Not making it easy for him, eh?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11946323*
> But now I remember someone said way earlier (like a couple of days ago now) that the Cherry MX Blues have an actuation force of 55g. The original post of this thread (the Mechanical Keyboard Guide) says it's 50g. Going further, the Cherry MX Whites are said to be like a stiffer Brown and even stiffer than the Blues. If this is true, then the Cherry MX Blues are not 55g, but 50g. Or, maybe it's that the Clears are 60g, but the documentation just says 55g. I don't know.


Yeah, that was me, I got the numbers mixed up. Blues are rated for 50g and Whites at 55g.

That said, Cherry's specs are for the resistance is the point of actuation, not the stiffest point of the travel in the switch. In any of their non-linear switches, there's a hump in the force graph before the actuation point that requires about 10g more force to overcome than the actuation point. This means that a Blue Cherry is 60g at its stiffest point, a Brown 55g and so on. It makes comparison difficult with switches where either peak force is specified, or the actuation point is also the stiffest point in the travel.


----------



## bakageta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v193r;11938451*
> the topre fart is not that. its when you leave ur kb alone then you hear a pop which comes from the cup coming up again. after using a hhkb2 for while is get less and less frequent even though it wasnt that annoyin to begin with.
> 
> what is the opposite of "the sound of a key bottoming out"...it would be the sound of a key poping back up and i was just wondering if there was a name for that and why it happens.


I've always called it keycap rattle, I don't notice it on scissor switches and some short-throw rubber dome boards, but it's there on most normal rubber dome boards and any mechanical I've tried.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purduepilot;11940232*
> Assuming I get used to the keyboard after a time and am no longer bottoming out, an MX Brown keyboard would be no louder than a cheap rubber dome keyboard, right? As long as I'm not getting a keyboard that's significantly louder than my current Dell POS, I don't think noise will be an issue.


I find my Filco with browns to be slightly louder than a typical rubber dome keyboard, but not significantly louder. I'd say you'll be fine.


----------



## purduepilot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maximus20895;11946267*
> Why not the blues


Noise, mostly. The way I understood it, Browns and Blues are physically about the same to type on, and browns just lack the clicky noise, right?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11946323*
> As long as you are 100% sure!
> 
> But now I remember someone said way earlier (like a couple of days ago now) that the Cherry MX Blues have an actuation force of 55g. The original post of this thread (the Mechanical Keyboard Guide) says it's 50g. Going further, the Cherry MX Whites are said to be like a stiffer Brown and even stiffer than the Blues. If this is true, then the Cherry MX Blues are not 55g, but 50g. Or, maybe it's that the Clears are 60g, but the documentation just says 55g. I don't know.
> 
> Regardless of all of that, I can just tell you this: typing on the Cherry MX Blues is a real pleasure. So, don't be afraid of the Blues if you think they might be too stiff or something.


I'm sure I'll enjoy typing on either of them, since I've been using a cheap kb for... ever. The only reason I chose the browns over the blues is the noise.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikrin;11946574*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not making it easy for him, eh?


They certainly aren't!







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bakageta;11954957*
> I've always called it keycap rattle, I don't notice it on scissor switches and some short-throw rubber dome boards, but it's there on most normal rubber dome boards and any mechanical I've tried.
> 
> I find my Filco with browns to be slightly louder than a typical rubber dome keyboard, but not significantly louder. I'd say you'll be fine.


Good to know--thanks!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;11948068*
> Yeah, that was me, I got the numbers mixed up. Blues are rated for 50g and Whites at 55g.
> 
> That said, Cherry's specs are for the resistance is the point of actuation, not the stiffest point of the travel in the switch. In any of their non-linear switches, there's a hump in the force graph before the actuation point that requires about 10g more force to overcome than the actuation point. This means that a Blue Cherry is 60g at its stiffest point, a Brown 55g and so on. It makes comparison difficult with switches where either peak force is specified, or the actuation point is also the stiffest point in the travel.


Whoa, I have never looked at the graph closely enough to notice! But of course, now I see it: for the Blues, the tactile bump sits right on the 60cN line, and the point of actuation is at about 50cN.

Nice. I'm glad you pointed this out.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purduepilot;11955377*
> Noise, mostly. The way I understood it, Browns and Blues are physically about the same to type on, and browns just lack the clicky noise, right?
> 
> I'm sure I'll enjoy typing on either of them, since I've been using a cheap kb for... ever. The only reason I chose the browns over the blues is the noise.
> 
> They certainly aren't!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good to know--thanks!


The clicks are just a crisp mechanical click sound that are produced by the switches, but the decibel level of the clicks sounds lower to me than the sound of bottoming out. For me, the click adds a sense of precision to my keystrokes; it's satisfying. But I certainly wouldn't want to be using this keyboard if I were sharing a bedroom with someone because I know that I would certainly be on the computer while they're trying to sleep. And I think that even though the clicks aren't _loud_, they may still be enough sound to keep some people awake. But then some people wouldn't be bothered by it in the least bit.

But even without the clicks, I think that the sound I dubbed "key pop" (the sound of the keys popping back up) would probably be enough to keep someone awake if I were sharing a bedroom with someone who's normally trying to sleep while I'm using the computer. Plus, my occasional bottoming out of keys like Backspace, Enter, Shift, Spacebar, etc. would probably keep them awake too.

Fortunately, I don't have to be concerned about the sound of my keyboard at all, so I get to enjoy a clicky keyboard.

But if you're still concerned, then try to watch as many YouTube videos as you can of people typing on boards that have the Browns, Blues, Blacks, etc. If you watch enough videos of each, then you'll get a fairly decent idea of what you'd be getting. But if you do this, then there's one thing to always remember: most videos seem to make the Blues sound a little louder than they really are, and sometimes even a little bit ear-piercing. But in reality, the sound is very similar to the click that a retractable pen makes. Except, a retractable pen makes a louder click.


----------



## purduepilot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11956410*
> Whoa, I have never looked at the graph closely enough to notice! But of course, now I see it: for the Blues, the tactile bump sits right on the 60cN line, and the point of actuation is at about 50cN.
> 
> Nice. I'm glad you pointed this out.
> 
> The clicks are just a crisp mechanical click sound that are produced by the switches, but the decibel level of the clicks sounds lower to me than the sound of bottoming out. For me, the click adds a sense of precision to my keystrokes; it's satisfying. But I certainly wouldn't want to be using this keyboard if I were sharing a bedroom with someone because I know that I would certainly be on the computer while they're trying to sleep. And I think that even though the clicks aren't _loud_, they may still be enough sound to keep some people awake. But then some people wouldn't be bothered by it in the least bit.
> 
> But even without the clicks, I think that the sound I dubbed "key pop" (the sound of the keys popping back up) would probably be enough to keep someone awake if I were sharing a bedroom with someone who's normally trying to sleep while I'm using the computer. Plus, my occasional bottoming out of keys like Backspace, Enter, Shift, Spacebar, etc. would probably keep them awake too.
> 
> Fortunately, I don't have to be concerned about the sound of my keyboard at all, so I get to enjoy a clicky keyboard.
> 
> But if you're still concerned, then try to watch as many YouTube videos as you can of people typing on boards that have the Browns, Blues, Blacks, etc. If you watch enough videos of each, then you'll get a fairly decent idea of what you'd be getting. But if you do this, then there's one thing to always remember: most videos seem to make the Blues sound a little louder than they really are, and sometimes even a little bit ear-piercing. But in reality, the sound is very similar to the click that a retractable pen makes. Except, a retractable pen makes a louder click.


Thanks for the writeup. I'll get her opinion on the youtube videos, since my hearing is crap and she's the one that's potentially going to be bothered by it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purduepilot;11958336*
> Thanks for the writeup. I'll get her opinion on the youtube videos, since my hearing is crap and she's the one that's potentially going to be bothered by it.


Then in addition to what I said, she will need to understand that the keyboard may sound quieter and "better" in person, especially if you have carpet in there.

But there's something else: most people in the videos you will see are bottoming out. But thankfully, there are some people who aren't bottoming out at all and so the only sounds heard are the switches and that sound I still want to call "key pop".


----------



## Maytan

Alright, I sold my Das in preparation of picking up a new board. Really want to go tenkeyless for the desk space. Should I bother waiting for EK to start selling Leopolds or should I attempt to order off of Army Group etc.?


----------



## Crazy9000

The realforce 86ub is slightly on sale at EK.


----------



## ripster

The Yellow WASD keys from ArmyGroup are awesome.









Just Awesome.








don't PM me. This is PhotoShop silly.


----------



## webwit

Ripster, do you think it is time yet to put my second Industrial Space Saver on ebay? Har har, no I think I'll trade it for a Korean keyboard.


----------



## Murinus

Manyak, you know your trade when it comes to mechanical keyboards, no doubt about that.. but when it comes to the Razer Black Widow, would you really recommend it?

Here's the deal, i started off with a G15 back in the days.. some years later i "upgraded" to a G19, i then found your thread and saw the 'light' and got myself a steelseries 7G.. there's nothing wrong with the keyboard, but i simply miss 1)Macros. 2)Backlit Keys(gotta love them for dark environments)and i just hate the fact that it is so easy to accidentally hit keys, a small push and bam.. you've blown a spell/skill that you were saving for later.

And that's that, i will be selling the 7G and it's going with my blessing







really nice keyboard and thanks for your recommendation back then.But what about the BlackWidow?It looks simply perfect for me, but Razer... man... gotta hate their silly marketing ****.So i am a little paranoid regarding razer products.. and in need of your help, again.


----------



## maximus20895

You can look into Deck keyboards too.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Murinus*


Manyak, you know your trade when it comes to mechanical keyboards, no doubt about that.. but when it comes to the Razer Black Widow, would you really recommend it?

Here's the deal, i started off with a G15 back in the days.. some years later i "upgraded" to a G19, i then found your thread and saw the 'light' and got myself a steelseries 7G.. there's nothing wrong with the keyboard, but i simply miss 1)Macros. 2)Backlit Keys(gotta love them for dark environments)and i just hate the fact that it is so easy to accidentally hit keys, a small push and bam.. you've blown a spell/skill that you were saving for later.

And that's that, i will be selling the 7G and it's going with my blessing







really nice keyboard and thanks for your recommendation back then.But what about the BlackWidow?It looks simply perfect for me, but Razer... man... gotta hate their silly marketing ****.So i am a little paranoid regarding razer products.. and in need of your help, again.


If you're pressing keys by accident on black switches I'm not sure there's much to suggest...


----------



## Murinus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *maximus20895*


You can look into Deck keyboards too.


Indeed.But i don't have many options when it comes to mechanical keyboards, i was lucky that i found the 7G in the Greek market.Tried ordering a DAS and a Deck back then, but the cost was insane.

p.s. i can find the black widow ultimate for 120euros right now.

EDIT:in reply to *thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


If you're pressing keys by accident on black switches I'm not sure there's much to suggest...


Trust me, it happens alot with the 7G, isn't it possible that these cherry blacks are different than others?the blackwidow blues for example are said to be entirely different than a usual cherry blue switch.And it can't be me, i've been using it for almost a year now, and i never had similar problems with rubber domes before etc


----------



## KipH

Murinus, its unlikely your blacks are different, and very near imposable that they are different than other blacks in other G7's. There can be a difference in layout and key feel between different keyboard though.

There have been suggestions for hot key programs. They should be easy to find and use. But for lighting I always suggest (and use myself) a cheep USB light. Plug it into the keyboard and shine it right onto the keys. Much better than most back lighting and much cheaper. I am using a keyboard right now that is exactly similar to the Black widow (regular, not ultimate) so I have no back lighting and don't miss it at all.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Murinus;11963453*
> Trust me, it happens alot with the 7G, isn't it possible that these cherry blacks are different than others?the blackwidow blues for example are said to be entirely different than a usual cherry blue switch.And it can't be me, i've been using it for almost a year now, and i never had similar problems with rubber domes before etc


Well blacks are the stiffest Cherry MX switches. But they're linear, so maybe having a tactile bump would help. In that case you should look at the Decks.


----------



## TwoCables

Murinus: are you interested in the BlackWidow due to the extra gaming keys off to the left? I mean, would having these keys make it less likely to press the wrong keys due to fat-fingering?


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *webwit;11962325*
> Ripster, do you think it is time yet to put my second Industrial Space Saver on ebay? Har har, no I think I'll trade it for a Korean keyboard.


Sell an Industrial Mini. No WAY.

However you can have My Sword, My Bow, and... MY AXE!


----------



## Murinus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;11964178*
> Murinus: are you interested in the BlackWidow due to the extra gaming keys off to the left? I mean, would having these keys make it less likely to press the wrong keys due to fat-fingering?


How exactly can some extra keys prevent fat-fingering anyway?I guess you're just trying to make fun of me







which is fine.
No, i'm just really used playing with keys like the ones on the widow for my games, been playing with a g15 and a g19 for many years after all.. using macros and whatnot.

Already found someone that wants to buy my 7G, will go back to my old G15 for now.Was just wondering if the blackwidow is a serious mechanical keyboard, since i always had problems with razer products, excluding their mouse pads.I would also like to know just how harder/easier it is for its keys to register strokes







still a mechanical keyboards newbie after all, and since it is one of the few mechanical keyboards that actually exist in our market, i'll just buy that or stick to mushy keys


----------



## ripster

It's a semi-serious keyboard. Anything with pulsing triad of snakes in the middle of the palm rest can't be taken toooooo seriously.


----------



## webwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11964984*
> Sell an Industrial Mini. No WAY.


Yes, but now there's still opportunity before the Chinese clone it.
They will probably give it a silly name like the Game Over.


----------



## webwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11965263*
> Anything with pulsing triad of snakes in the middle of the palm rest can't be taken toooooo seriously.


Whaa..what are you saying?? I have that tattooed on my a ss. Copy that!


----------



## Munkypoo7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11965263*
> It's a semi-serious keyboard. Anything with pulsing triad of snakes in the middle of the palm rest can't be taken toooooo seriously.


I still love mine though


----------



## r31ncarnat3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11965263*
> It's a semi-serious keyboard. Anything with pulsing triad of snakes in the middle of the palm rest can't be taken toooooo seriously.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I found something really weird on ebay. Nobody bid on it.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;11967233*
> I found something really weird on ebay. Nobody bid on it.


Aw shucks, I was about come on here and tell everyone not to bid on it. Oh well, you win this round.


----------



## bloke226

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maytan;11961981*
> Alright, I sold my Das in preparation of picking up a new board. Really want to go tenkeyless for the desk space. Should I bother waiting for EK to start selling Leopolds or should I attempt to order off of Army Group etc.?


I just got my Tenkeyless from Army Group last Saturday. Took them about a week to process and ship it and get to my door. They have good customer service despite their broken English.

Ripster is right, the yellow keys are cool. I also got a keypuller and a nice cleaning brush along with it. I'm assuming these were free since they were not advertised with the keyboard.

~$160 shipped with the currency rate at the time. It's well worth the extra money to get a Filco imo


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maytan;11967962*
> Aw shucks, I was about come on here and tell everyone not to bid on it. Oh well, you win this round.


trololololo lo lo!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Murinus;11965056*
> How exactly can some extra keys prevent fat-fingering anyway?I guess you're just trying to make fun of me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which is fine.


I am actually being serious.

I see it like this: if fat-fingering is currently an issue (especially during intense gaming moments), then having those extra macro keys on the left can eliminate this. I mean, it's like you said: you will sometimes accidentally press a key that results in you losing something you worked hard to acquire. So what you would do is bind that to one of the macro keys in order to separate these two keys from each other to hopefully eliminate the chances of accidentally pressing it again.

So having those extra macro keys allows you to separate certain things from each other so that you hopefully eliminate the possibility of accidentally pressing the wrong thing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Murinus;11965056*
> No, i'm just really used playing with keys like the ones on the widow for my games, been playing with a g15 and a g19 for many years after all.. using macros and whatnot.


I know, and so that's why I asked.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Murinus;11965056*
> Already found someone that wants to buy my 7G, will go back to my old G15 for now.Was just wondering if the blackwidow is a serious mechanical keyboard, since i always had problems with razer products, excluding their mouse pads.I would also like to know just how harder/easier it is for its keys to register strokes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> still a mechanical keyboards newbie after all, and since it is one of the few mechanical keyboards that actually exist in our market, i'll just buy that or stick to mushy keys


The BlackWidow is an exception for Razer: it's actually somewhat of a serious mechanical keyboard. Sure, it's not for mechanical keyboard enthusiasts, but it's still a unique product for Razer. From what I've been seeing here on OCN, it's actually a high-quality product unlike the rest of their keyboards. It almost sounds to me like the BlackWidow is the opposite of the rest of their keyboards: it sounds like it's actually a very good product!

Unfortunately, Razer went with the Cherry MX Blues. I mean, there's only one problem with the Cherry MX Blues: some people are unable to double-tap with them (plus, some people don't like the mechanical click sound). But other than that, it's a *very* nice mechanical switch. Actually, I'm hearing that the Cherry MX Blues in the BlackWidows seem to be superior to the Blues in most mechanical keyboards. But it makes sense because I remember that Manyak posted an excerpt from an e-mail he received from Razer where they stated that they literally cherry-picked all of these Cherry MX Blue switches (pun not intended). I even saw someone say somewhere here on OCN that they heard the BlackWidow's Cherry MX Blues are modified somehow. Perhaps they have a superior spring inside or something, I don't know. But I do remember Manyak telling us that it feels better to type on his BlackWidow than it does to type on his Filco Majestouch Tactile Click! And that's significant because we should expect the Filco to be superior to the BlackWidow!

Regarding the feel of the Cherry MX Blues: they require less force to press down than the Cherry MX Blacks (the switches in the 7G). Plus, the Blacks are 100% linear while the Blues are both tactile and clicky (we might say that they're the polar opposite of the Blacks). The tactile feel of the Blues is crisp, or perhaps "precise". The addition of the click actually adds a sense of crispness and precision to the keystroke too. For typing, it's an absolute dream. For gaming, they're still awesome.

But the reason why there's a problem with double tapping is because the reset point is above the actuation point. This means that the keystroke signal is not severed until the switch is allowed to come back up past the reset point. Unfortunately, the reset point is very close to the top of the key travel, so the only way to achieve a successful double-tap is to basically just perform two hits right in a row. But some people prefer to ride the actuation point while gaming which just doesn't work well on the Cherry MX Blues _at all_. I mean, once the keystroke signal is sent, it'll keep repeating until the switch is allowed to come back up above the reset point so that it resets (or, so that it stops sending the keystroke signal). But the reset point is noticeably higher than the actuation point, so this makes it impossible to ride the actuation point which also makes it impossible for a person to double-tap who is very accustomed to double-tapping while riding the actuation point. There's just too big of a distance between the actuation point and reset point.

However, someone like me has no problem with it because I don't do that. Instead, my double-tap just consists of two quick hits right in a row which naturally allows the switch to come all the way back up in between the two hits of the double-tap. So for me, the Cherry MX Blues are absolutely fine for gaming. And unlike some people, I actually enjoy that little mechanical click the Blues produce even while playing a game!

To get a very rough idea of what this switch feels like, rubber domes were designed to hopefully imitate tactile switches like the Blues, Browns or Buckling Springs. Unfortunately, nothing can compare to the real thing.









If you can go to a store to try a BlackWidow, then I do recommend it. Of course, you won't be able to test double-tapping, but at least you'll be able to understand the difference in feel.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bloke226*


I just got my Tenkeyless from Army Group last Saturday. Took them about a week to process and ship it and get to my door. They have good customer service despite their broken English.

Ripster is right, the yellow keys are cool. I also got a keypuller and a nice cleaning brush along with it. I'm assuming these were free since they were not advertised with the keyboard.

~$160 shipped with the currency rate at the time. It's well worth the extra money to get a Filco imo










Oh, I had no idea it came with all those extras! For $160, I think I'm sold.


----------



## Murinus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I am actually being serious.


I see, forgive me then.. and yeah, i can see your point - one could say that the extra buttons can help indeed.

I called some stores here and they all told me that they will be receiving the keyboard within January, there was some delay from Razer's side.. but they will be adding greek letters on the caps as well, i hope they don't replace the nice key-caps with cheap ones to do so







One of the stores is a major one too, they always put new stuff up in order to test them, so i will probably be able to give it a go









As for the noise thing, i watched some high quality videos with someone typing on Blues and i must say that i find the way they sound.. mesmerising!

And sir.. yours is a post of magnificent helpfulness!Thank you.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Murinus*


I see, forgive me then.. and yeah, i can see your point - one could say that the extra buttons can help indeed.

I called some stores here and they all told me that they will be receiving the keyboard within January, there was some delay from Razer's side.. but they will be adding greek letters on the caps as well, i hope they don't replace the nice key-caps with cheap ones to do so







One of the stores is a major one too, they always put new stuff up in order to test them, so i will probably be able to give it a go









As for the noise thing, i watched some high quality videos with someone typing on Blues and i must say that i find the way they sound.. mesmerising!

And sir.. yours is a post of magnificent helpfulness!Thank you.


Hehe you're very welcome!

But yeah, I discovered the same thing from watching YouTube videos. Every single time I went back to a video of a guy typing on the Browns, I would just end up feeling bored and uninterested. There's something about this click sound that turns my crank.









Anyway, I'm looking forward to learning what you think of the BlackWidow! Razer has a hole in the box so customers can try it before they guy it without opening the box!


----------



## bloke226

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Oh, I had no idea it came with all those extras! For $160, I think I'm sold.










Do it! What kind of switch did you have in mind?


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bloke226*


Do it! What kind of switch did you have in mind?


Sticking with the Browns I had in my Das. I'm not fond of Blacks, and Blues would be a shot in the dark. (I've never gamed on them before; and while many say they have no problems double-tapping with them, it's not a risk I'm interested in taking at the current moment in time.)

I'm mostly switching for aesthetic reasons; the board I had was a refurb. As it stands, I RMA'd the first one I got, then I broke the one I got from the RMA and got this refurb sent to me as a kind gesture from Metadot. The reason for my RMA was a rather squeaky key, and the refurb happened to have a squeaky key as well.... I tried lubrication, but for some reason I fail at applying White Lithium Grease to the stabilizer.

So, a mixture of the squeaky key and the glossy finish (which I got sick and tired of scratching) is what motivated me to switch. Plus, tenkeyless boards are just so cute. They rival IU, dare I say. <3



Alright, my Korean obsession aside... Erm, I'll going to order by the end of the week, I suppose. Thanks for sharing the experience you had with ArmyGroup as well, glad the shipping wasn't too bad of a wait!

So, thanks again for your input.


----------



## bloke226

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Sticking with the Browns I had in my Das. I'm not fond of Blacks, and Blues would be a shot in the dark. (I've never gamed on them before; and while many say they have no problems double-tapping with them, it's not a risk I'm interested in taking at the current moment in time.)

I'm mostly switching for aesthetic reasons; the board I had was a refurb. As it stands, I RMA'd the first one I got, then I broke the one I got from the RMA and got this refurb sent to me as a kind gesture from Metadot. The reason for my RMA was a rather squeaky key, and the refurb happened to have a squeaky key as well.... I tried lubrication, but for some reason I fail at applying White Lithium Grease to the stabilizer.

So, a mixture of the squeaky key and the glossy finish (which I got sick and tired of scratching) is what motivated me to switch. Plus, tenkeyless boards are just so cute. They rival IU, dare I say. <3

-snip-

Alright, my Korean obsession aside... Erm, I'll going to order by the end of the week, I suppose. Thanks for sharing the experience you had with ArmyGroup as well, glad the shipping wasn't too bad of a wait!

So, thanks again for your input.










Yeah I know what you mean with the glossy aspect of Das. It looks bulky and not a fan of glossy. As far as the switch goes, I game on blues and haven't had any issues with double tapping. I say I do 60% gaming 40% typing since I am not in school anymore and it serves me well. It's just a matter of getting used to it and you'll be fine. Not trying to sway you to blues, go with what you're comfortable with.

As far as shipping goes or navigation through the site if you don't know Chinese use Google Chrome with the built in translator lol. They take a while to update their site on the status of your board (like days), so don't get discouraged about shipping times. I used PayPal with them and the transaction was fine.


----------



## bloke226

Here you go with the browns!


----------



## TwoCables

Whoa! A Tenkeyless Tactile Touch!

Maytan, I bet you would really love this keyboard.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bloke226*


Yeah I know what you mean with the glossy aspect of Das. It looks bulky and not a fan of glossy. As far as the switch goes, I game on blues and haven't had any issues with double tapping. I say I do 60% gaming 40% typing since I am not in school anymore and it serves me well. It's just a matter of getting used to it and you'll be fine. Not trying to sway you to blues, go with what you're comfortable with.


Oh yes, I wouldn't be surprised if Blues worked fine for me; and if I were ordering from an English-written website, I probably would go with Blues just for the sake of fun. However, since I'm dealing with a place overseas, returns are entirely out of the question. Just playing it safe this time around.









Quote:



As far as shipping goes or navigation through the site if you don't know Chinese use Google Chrome with the built in translator lol. They take a while to update their site on the status of your board (like days), so don't get discouraged about shipping times. I used PayPal with them and the transaction was fine.


Ah, yes. I was planning on using Chrome. I believe fssbzz wrote a guide pertaining to ordering from ArmyGroup, it should be somewhere on GeekHack.. I might dig it up... Thanks for the tips!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bloke226*


Here you go with the browns!


Perfect! Exactly what I'm looking for.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Whoa! A Tenkeyless Tactile Touch!

Maytan, I bet you would really love this keyboard.


No arguments there, Mr. Cables. I'm going to bite on this deal before they all disappear.


----------



## bloke226

I didn't use the AG guide because with Chrome alone it made it painless


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bloke226*


I didn't use the AG guide because with Chrome alone it made it painless










Oh wow, it's that thorough? Nice!

Thanks again.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But yeah, I discovered the same thing from watching YouTube videos. Every single time I went back to a video of a guy typing on the Browns, I would just end up feeling bored and uninterested.


They feel as interesting as they sound. Possibly less.


----------



## bloke226

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Oh wow, it's that thorough? Nice!

Thanks again.










If you have half a brain, you should be able to fill in the blanks with the broken English translations from Chrome haha. I mean it won't hurt to find the guide, but it would be for clarification purposes.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bloke226*


If you have half a brain, you should be able to fill in the blanks with the broken English translations from Chrome haha. I mean it won't hurt to find the guide, but it would be for clarification purposes.


Of course, I don't expect perfection; hehe. I'll navigate my way about the place with Chrome. Worst-case, I'll just look up the guide.


----------



## ajx

Which one is recommended for fps gaming?

Zowie Celeritas with brown mx and Filco Majestouch also in brown mx

other keyboard suggestions would be appreciated by the way


----------



## KipH

Maytan, with a Korean obsession why not wait for the Leopleds









And I still have 5 black and 5 brown Tenkeyless filcoes sitting at the store here. I only wait for some one to send me $ so I can test out shipping. But no orange keys I think. I am a feared to go look, they may think I have OCD going to look at keyboards so often with out buying one


----------



## microsoft windows

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ajx;11975030*
> Which one is recommended for fps gaming?
> 
> Zowie Celeritas with brown mx and Filco Majestouch also in brown mx
> 
> other keyboard suggestions would be appreciated by the way


Cherry MX Brown switches are nice quality. I wouldn't give then an A+ for tactility, but they require little force to activate the key switch and can last for millions of keystrokes.

Any of those keyboards you listed should do fine for playing computer games.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69;11976737*
> Maytan, with a Korean obsession why not wait for the Leopleds


Yeah, as I said earlier, I was considering that. When it comes down to it, however, I'm not so sure I'm going to wait. I'm not making a purchase until the board I sold has arrived at its destination, in case of possible problems. (damage during shipping, etc.; I like to embrace my buyers if such things occur.) But, y'know, waiting for the Leopolds might work out too...

It's funny really, how indecisive I can be. At first I wanted a Unicomp, but I ultimately find myself having to type just a room away from sleeping people quite often.
Quote:


> And I still have 5 black and 5 brown Tenkeyless filcoes sitting at the store here. I only wait for some one to send me $ so I can test out shipping. But no orange keys I think. I am a feared to go look, they may think I have OCD going to look at keyboards so often with out buying one


Hehe. Well, as we've discussed before, I wouldn't mind using your services. (so long as it isn't an inconvenience to you.) However, if I do decide to order the Filco (which I'm greatly leaning towards; given my impatience), I think I'd have to stick with AG. Only because of the extras.


----------



## ripster

You've got plenty of time. At 10,718 posts this is the longest thread I've ever seen since 4chan.


----------



## drjoey1500

Now I'm waiting impatiently for leopolds







.

I think it'll be worth it though...I hope.

*edit*
Ripster, clearly you've never been on head-fi.
14700+ posts
16000+


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Black M13, starting at $29.99: http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-Model-M-Keyboard-13H6705-PS-2-trackpoint-/260718156768?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item3cb4035be0

That's a good deal if you don't like the white ones. Might go up to $50-$60 toward the end though.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drjoey1500;11977990*
> *edit*
> Ripster, clearly you've never been on head-fi.
> 14700+ posts
> 16000+


Not that it really matters







. I'm sure if you dug around on d2jsp you could find some big ones, over 340 million posts overall there (compared to OCNs 11m total). Or if we want to go there, I bet gaia has an 11 million post thread or something, lmao.


----------



## purduepilot

Ordered the Das Keyboard Professional Silent tonight. $102 with the student discount. Looking forward to trying it out! Thanks to all for your advice!


----------



## soilentblue

so is there any word on when exactly the leopolds will be released? last I read was february? i wish there was a preorder list.


----------



## maximus20895

No. Sometimes in January or February.


----------



## ripster

Little bird tweeted me February.


----------



## soilentblue

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11979273*
> Little bird tweeted me February.


did the little bird tweeted a price too?


----------



## maximus20895

I'm guessing between $125 -$150.


----------



## webwit

The biggest forum I've ever seen was the old BBC football forum. There's nothing like 100000 fans storming a forum to discuss a bad referee decision. Threads were not long though. Everybody just made a new one. When you posted it, it would already have flooded to page 2 or 3. They changed that into something no one would use.


----------



## ripster

My F5 key is worn out from some of the forums I've been on.


----------



## Crazy9000

We all know usenet is better then these new fangled internet forums anyways.


----------



## microsoft windows

It would work better on my computer.


----------



## n1tr0

awesome FAQ, thanks for making such a comprehensive write-up. I've searched for years for a small mechanical keyboard and up until finding this thread, I thought the Happy Hacker was the only option.


----------



## ripster

Happy Hacker is so yesterday.

It's KBC 40 baby.


----------



## bleedingRoue

Guide says the Steelseries 7G has laser etched keys, perhaps it did when it was released, but it no longer does. They look pad printed to me.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;11989537*
> Happy Hacker is so yesterday.
> 
> It's KBC 40 baby.


I thought they were only doing pre-orders for that currently.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *bleedingRoue*


Guide says the Steelseries 7G has laser etched keys, perhaps it did when it was released, but it no longer does. They look pad printed to me.


The guide is correct and you are wrong.


----------



## candy_van

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Thanks for sharing the experience you had with *ArmyGroup *as well, glad the shipping wasn't too bad of a wait!


Ok apparently I fail at Google and can't find these guys...halp








Getting impatient with waiting for EK to get new stuff and $160 for a Filco sounds pretty darn good.


----------



## Crazy9000

http://www.armygroup.com.tw/shop/


----------



## candy_van

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


http://www.armygroup.com.tw/shop/


Nice. Found it - thanks!









Do they offer intl shipping options at checkout/registry or do you need to contact them first?
I tried to find their customer service info (Google translate is a bit off - went to that section and am reading something about Afghanistan?







)


----------



## Lanx

read this if your ordering from armygroup
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=13111


----------



## candy_van

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lanx*


read this if your ordering from armygroup
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=13111


Awesome, thanks!


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

2 new things of note; this:

http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=277209&postcount=26

and this:

http://leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item...._id=1294015518

which seems to have taken over the listing spot for the normal 104-key Leopold FC200R. Something peculiar is happening...


----------



## soilentblue

i want a leopold tenkeyless! lol can't wait


----------



## RedAndBlueNotebook

Hey, I've got a Model M and the keycaps are currently in colemak, but I type in qwerty. I was looking at getting a keycap puller to make the switch back a bit easier, and I was wondering if you guys had any recommendations. And can it be used for both parts of the model m keys?


----------



## ch_123

There is an official IBM keycap puller which is quite nice for the task. Clickykeyboards.com sells them with a set of terminal emulation keycaps, I don't think it's possible to get one separately, but you can ask.

Before I had that, I'd use a flathead screwdriver or my fingers.


----------



## ripster

Here. Hooleon for either IBM two piece or one piece key pullers.


----------



## ch_123

This is the IBM one.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Any suggestions on another mechanical keyboard in addition to my current tenkeyless brown?


----------



## ripster

The OP is filled with obsolete ones that are pretty hard to find. Gives you bragging rights.

Especially those Foam Capacitive switch ones. Don't see those every day.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12017544*
> Any suggestions on another mechanical keyboard in addition to my current tenkeyless brown?


Do you want to try something clicky, or quiet?


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Hmm....


----------



## LarsMarkelson

Realforce 86u. It's brilliant.

I'm on my Cherry Blue right now and missing my Realforce 86u.

The HHKB2 is really fun too but takes a ton of time to get used to fully. You gotta tweak the switches and get your keys perfect, like I didn't like mine until I put a left side Function key on.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12019112*
> Do you want to try something clicky, or quiet?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12025479*
> Hmm....


Sorry. Only electric typewriters hum.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Why are you apologizing.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LarsMarkelson;12026658*
> Realforce 86u. It's brilliant.
> 
> I'm on my Cherry Blue right now and missing my Realforce 86u.
> 
> The HHKB2 is really fun too but takes a ton of time to get used to fully. You gotta tweak the switches and get your keys perfect, like I didn't like mine until I put a left side Function key on.


I thought we were recommending mechanical switches, not topre switches. I have to say though, I'm thinking about gettin a HHKB2 with a Das. I like the look of the HHKB too. If I don't like it, I'll give it to my sister.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Why are you apologizing.


Good point.

I AM the boss.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HybridCore*


I thought we were recommending mechanical switches, not topre switches. I have to say though, I'm thinking about gettin a HHKB2 with a Das. I like the look of the HHKB too. If I don't like it, I'll give it to my sister.


Post pics and I may give it to your sister.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HybridCore*


I thought we were recommending mechanical switches, not topre switches.


Since when were Topres not mechanical?


----------



## Lanx

i've always voted topres as non mechanical expensive rubber domes.


----------



## thiru

They're both...


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lanx*


i've always voted topres as non mechanical expensive rubber domes.


By the vague, bull**** definition of mechanical keyboards that is in usage, they are mechanical due to the presence of a metal spring in the key mechanism.

In theory, if you remove the rubber dome from a Topre, you will have a fully functional linear keyboard. Try that with a real rubber dome keyboard. I've always argued that that a Model M has more in common with a rubber dome keyboard than a Topre does.


----------



## Lanx

Just because a Model M has a membrane for switch activation doesn't make it a cousin to a rubber dome. True if you remove the spring on a Model M it doesn't work at all, but ppl don't spend 200$ for a rubberless topre, they spend the 200$ for that super design rubber whatever secret sauce formula, the spring is just there to bridge the the switch mechanism in a Topre as demonstrated by the 5g of force it provides.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lanx*


Just because a Model M has a membrane for switch activation doesn't make it a cousin to a rubber dome.


No, what I said was that a Model M's keyswitch mechanism is more similar in operation and design to a rubber dome than a Topre is. Not quite what you are saying there, even if the difference is subtle.

Quote:



True if you remove the spring on a Model M it doesn't work at all


The point I made here was to do with rubber dome keyboards not Model Ms. A rubber dome keyboard is defined by the rubber dome. Every aspect of the rubber dome mechanism is encapsulated in that dome. If you get rid of the rubber dome from a rubber dome keyboard, you have nothing. In the Topre, it's only there to provide tactility.

Quote:



but ppl don't spend 200$ for a rubberless topre, they spend the 200$ for that super design rubber whatever secret sauce formula, the spring is just there to bridge the the switch mechanism in a Topre as demonstrated by the 5g of force it provides.


Yes, that spring does a lot of magical stuff - the capacitive switching that it enables means that the Topre has the longest shelf life of any tactile switch keyboard that is currently produced (even Unicomp buckling springs only last 25 million vs the Topre's 30 million). Also, because the spring takes the strain off the dome and cushions the bottoming out, you get something that many people (myself included) prefer over just about any Cherry switch, nevermind rubber domes.

Judging switches by force ratings is kinda silly, innit?


----------



## Marin

Finally back in my apartment. After being apart from my mechanical keyboards for a month I can once again type on them. My Filco once again feels amazing to type on.


----------



## Djankie

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


Finally back in my apartment. After being apart from my mechanical keyboards for a month I can once again type on them. My Filco once again feels amazing to type on.


Everytime when I come home from work I have the same feeling


----------



## Marin

Should have put something over the Filco, had to blow a ton of dust off of it.


----------



## webwit

Shelf life of springs means nothing. They should give me metrics, not pr and random numbers in the sales brochure. But they can't even define what they mean with such numbers. Is it when the switch always fails? Sometimes fails? Or can it operate but is there a threshold of tactility beyond which it is no longer in the minimal quality range? Is it about the switch that will fail first? Seems more like a randomly rounded fail-safe number. But who knows. Now these numbers mean as little as a graph in commercials for toothpaste or cleaning detergents. According to the manufacturer, this stuff cleans 2 times better than the competition, just look at this graph.










_Our stuff is better. This graph proves it._


----------



## ch_123

Even leaving aside potentially bull**** manufacturer specs, the Topre is more likely to last longer than most of the other stuff on the market. No membrane like the M (seen more than a few Model M membranes die from old age), and no silly gajillion-moving-parts design like the Cherry. The construction of them has at least some isolation between the outside world and the innards, at least compared with an Alps or Cherry design. It's a simple mechanism using reliable capacitive switching, and yet very pleasant to type on. What more could you want?


----------



## HealthyBigMac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12036610*
> What more could you want?


Lower price would be cool.


----------



## seesee

Hello Guys, I am thinking of getting a mechanical keyboard..

I am complenplating between brown and red switches

I am a person who prefer a quiet working environment, is red switch for me or I should get brown to get a brown for its tactless feedback.

if so, please recommend me a brand where by the keys won't fade on me.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *seesee;12038786*
> Hello Guys, I am thinking of getting a mechanical keyboard..
> 
> I am complenplating between brown and red switches
> 
> I am a person who prefer a quiet working environment, is red switch for me or I should get brown to get a brown for its tactless feedback.
> 
> if so, please recommend me a brand where by the keys won't fade on me.


The tactile 'bump' of the browns is not loud at all. If anything browns will be quieter because it will be easier to type without bottoming out the keys which makes most of the noise.


----------



## 161029

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


By the vague, bull**** definition of mechanical keyboards that is in usage, they are mechanical due to the presence of a metal spring in the key mechanism.

In theory, if you remove the rubber dome from a Topre, you will have a fully functional linear keyboard. Try that with a real rubber dome keyboard. I've always argued that that a Model M has more in common with a rubber dome keyboard than a Topre does.


Oh. Looks like I'm going to take that HHKB apart if it has domes or membranes.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HybridCore*


Oh. Looks like I'm going to take that HHKB apart if it has domes or membranes.


Don't waste your time, it has rubber domes inside of it, a long with metal springs under the domes.


----------



## seesee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


The tactile 'bump' of the browns is not loud at all. If anything browns will be quieter because it will be easier to type without bottoming out the keys which makes most of the noise.


red is not quieter than brown?


----------



## ch_123

It doesn't have a membrane, has a PCB with capacitive sensors on it.


----------



## KipH

Reds are almost imposable to get. If you can get them I am sure others would like to know how. But Browns are good an easy to get. Just pick your board and go!


----------



## seesee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


Reds are almost imposable to get. If you can get them I am sure others would like to know how. But Browns are good an easy to get. Just pick your board and go!


serious? how come?


----------



## ch_123

Cherry Reds are only available in PCB mounted form, whereas most manufacturers only use plate mounted switches. Also, Cherry only distributes keyboards that use them in the Far East.


----------



## seesee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Cherry Reds are only available in PCB mounted form, whereas most manufacturers only use plate mounted switches. Also, Cherry only distributes keyboards that use them in the Far East.



erm.. if it is PCB mounted form.. is it better than plate mounted switches?

I stay in Singapore and can get Cherry Red easily via a contact in china.

anyway for Red keyboards, there is only 1 model, which is cherry themselves?


----------



## webwit

Nice switch. If you like very light switches. Build quality: Feels like it will blow of the desk if you open a window and the wind comes in.


----------



## purduepilot

My Das Keyboard: Professional Silent arrived today. Just hooked it up five minutes ago. I'm definitely noticing the difference between lightly pressing the key and bottoming out the key. It feels weird to type this lightly, since with the cheap POS I was using before I just mashed them all the way. Guess I'll just have to keep practicing with it and focusing on typing lightly. It seems pretty quiet if you don't bottom out.

Thanks for all your help, everyone!


----------



## striker1989

how would the feel between blue and clear switches be like?
since deck keyboards are clear/or black and i tried out some blue ones


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *striker1989;12046162*
> how would the feel between blue and clear switches be like?
> since deck keyboards are clear/or black and i tried out some blue ones


No 'click' sound and stiffer keys.


----------



## striker1989

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12046189*
> No 'click' sound and stiffer keys.


stiffer?


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *striker1989;12046230*
> stiffer?


You need more effort to press the key. 5g more to actuate the key, and 5-10g more to bottom them out.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *striker1989;12046230*
> stiffer?


Takes a little more force to press down.


----------



## striker1989

oo i guess i might go blues then
i like that sorta clicky thingy feeling that comes with a blue


----------



## purduepilot

Anybody have any advice on how to get used to typing on a mechanical switch keyboard after using rubber domes forever? I like my browns well enough, but I am having to focus to depress them the correct amount to actually type the letter (instead of touching the key but misfiring) but at the same time not bottom out. Perhaps I should have gotten the blues...


----------



## v193r

rand question: anyone know where lmnop went? she was one of the few ppl who's mouse knowledge made mine look inferior.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


rand question: anyone know where lmnop went? she was one of the few ppl who's mouse knowledge made mine look inferior.


Is she Canadian? 
If Yes: Blame bears
If No: Blame Ruskies


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purduepilot*


Anybody have any advice on how to get used to typing on a mechanical switch keyboard after using rubber domes forever? I like my browns well enough, but I am having to focus to depress them the correct amount to actually type the letter (instead of touching the key but misfiring) but at the same time not bottom out. Perhaps I should have gotten the blues...


The best way to do it is to just be patient. Just as with everything else in life, it will take some time to reach the point where you're no longer having to think about it.

For example: I got my keyboard a little over 10 months ago on March 9th, 2010. For the first week or so, I practiced typing as lightly as possible using Notepad every single day. I would just type anything and _everything_ that crossed my mind. At first, I was experiencing the same problems that you are. After a couple of days, I noticed that I was typing with my wrists up in the air which I had never done before. That made it much easier to type without bottoming out. Actually, it simply made all of my typing noticeably easier.

After a week or 2 of daily practice, I found that I was no longer having to think about what I was doing. So, I guess it only took me about 1 or 2 weeks to reach a point where I was no longer bottoming out without having to consciously think about it.

So don't give up. As long as you continue trying to avoid bottoming out, you will find that it soon becomes 2nd nature.


----------



## Sainesk

sorry if it's been asked before, does anyone know what kind of prices the leopolds are expected to have at release? (on elitekeyboards)

...and reckon there will be resellers/easy ways to get it in Canada? wouldn't like to get slapped with a $100 or whatever customs fee...


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


rand question: anyone know where lmnop went? she was one of the few ppl who's mouse knowledge made mine look inferior.


I've been wondering the same thing. She still owes me earmuffs.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I've been wondering the same thing. She still owes me earmuffs.


Last activity 11 hours ago according to profile. Looks like she still has a Rep button, so shouldn't be banned or anything.


----------



## purduepilot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12050487*
> The best way to do it is to just be patient. Just as with everything else in life, it will take some time to reach the point where you're no longer having to think about it.
> 
> For example: I got my keyboard a little over 10 months ago on March 9th, 2010. For the first week or so, I practiced typing as lightly as possible using Notepad every single day. I would just type anything and _everything_ that crossed my mind. At first, I was experiencing the same problems that you are. After a couple of days, I noticed that I was typing with my wrists up in the air which I had never done before. That made it much easier to type without bottoming out. Actually, it simply made all of my typing noticeably easier.
> 
> After a week or 2 of daily practice, I found that I was no longer having to think about what I was doing. So, I guess it only took me about 1 or 2 weeks to reach a point where I was no longer bottoming out without having to consciously think about it.
> 
> So don't give up. As long as you continue trying to avoid bottoming out, you will find that it soon becomes 2nd nature.


Thanks for the advice. +rep


----------



## v193r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Is she Canadian? 
If Yes: Blame bears
If No: Blame Ruskies


im ruski. but dont blame me. in fact americans steal our women. is it stealing if their willing?


----------



## bloke226

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Sainesk*


sorry if it's been asked before, does anyone know what kind of prices the leopolds are expected to have at release? (on elitekeyboards)

...and reckon there will be resellers/easy ways to get it in Canada? wouldn't like to get slapped with a $100 or whatever customs fee...










lol Chances are if anyone knew what the prices would be, people would be talking about it in almost every other thread. I've been keeping my eyes out here and on geekhack and haven't found anything rock solid.


----------



## seesee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *seesee*


erm.. if it is PCB mounted form.. is it better than plate mounted switches?

I stay in Singapore and can get Cherry Red easily via a contact in china.

anyway for Red keyboards, there is only 1 model, which is cherry themselves?


help?


----------



## ripster

Check the WW buying guide here. G80-3494/3484 and G80-1863 HUMUS.


----------



## thisispatrick

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I've been wondering the same thing. She still owes me earmuffs.


She owes me dinner.


----------



## ripster

10,802 posts later - Where did the OP go?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


10,802 posts later - Where did the OP go?


Is he:
Canadian?
Yes - Bears
No - Russians


----------



## ripster

Meanwhile in Belarus.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12051055*
> Last activity 11 hours ago according to profile. Looks like she still has a Rep button, so shouldn't be banned or anything.


Ah, last I checked she was on in October. At least this gives us some hope.


----------



## Munkypoo7

Total side track.. but what the hell.

Shift key got squeaky on my BlackWidow Ultimate, after I QQed for a bit, tried tapping the key down a million and a half times all without resolve, decided to pop the key off with two paperclip loops, one per side.

Then with tweezers slid the stabilizer [is that what the metal bar thingy is..? ><] out of the grooves on the keycap. Used some WD40 on the grooves and on the entire bar [QTips are one of the best inventions ever!] and the squeak is gone. ^^

This was my first cap removal, I was scared as hell, but hey, learned on proper removal and how to fix squeaks on larger keys.

Obviously if anything really irreparable happens Razer will never be told this.. while I do love their products, their warranties ruin the fun









Hell maybe someone will find this useful for key removal / de-squeaking


----------



## ripster

Pros just remove the key next to the larger key and push the key to the side to remove - I call it Korean Kung Fu style.


----------



## Munkypoo7

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Pros just remove the key next to the larger key and push the key to the side to remove -I call it Korean Kung Fu style


See I actually considered that, but feared popping off two keys


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Pros just remove the key next to the larger key and push the key to the side to remove - I call it Korean Kung Fu style.










That never frackin' worked for me. :|


----------



## Malerik

Love this thread. Read it from start to finish and while it strays and wanders here and there, lots of interesting details. I know that I have read somewhere that Cherry MX key caps can be swapped with like keyboards. Does this apply if the switches are different? Would taking say the blank keycaps from a DAS with brown switches and putting them on a SS 7g that has black switches work? ( layout not withstanding as it would not be all keys )


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Malerik*


Love this thread. Read it from start to finish and while it strays and wanders here and there, lots of interesting details. I know that I have read somewhere that Cherry MX key caps can be swapped with like keyboards. Does this apply if the switches are different? Would taking say the blank keycaps from a DAS with brown switches and putting them on a SS 7g that has black switches work? ( layout not withstanding as it would not be all keys )


You could do that, but on some boards the switches might be mounted closer than on others, making them incompatible with eachother.
But other than that, then yes, it should work.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Malerik*


Love this thread. Read it from start to finish and while it strays and wanders here and there, lots of interesting details. I know that I have read somewhere that Cherry MX key caps can be swapped with like keyboards. Does this apply if the switches are different? Would taking say the blank keycaps from a DAS with brown switches and putting them on a SS 7g that has black switches work? ( layout not withstanding as it would not be all keys )


You just read 1081 pages? Wow you have my respect














.


----------



## ripster

Please summarize in 10813 words or less.


----------



## Maytan

Eh guys, just curious, anyone have experience ordering from Leopold's site? Curious about prices. I'm convinced I want one because of the stabilizers they use. EK is just taking foreverrrrr.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Please summarize in 10813 words or less.


keyboards keyboards keyboards mechanical keyboards keyboards rubber domes food keyboards mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns keyboards keyboards food food food keyboards gaming keyboards keyboard troll troll troll keyboards mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns dirty jokes mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns keyboards television mx blues or mx browns 18th century gothic cathedrals chicken vindaloo keyboards mx blues or mx browns "why hasn't Manyak updated the OP?" troll troll troll winge keyboards wow this is a long thread keyboards keyboards food food food food food food keyboards mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns keyboards Al Gore keyboards mx blues or mx browns keyboards troll


----------



## Malerik

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Please summarize in 10813 words or less.


Manyak wrote it. Crazy 9000 uses a a Topre realforce. Viper games on a HHKB even though the poll said he should use Brown switches. Lmnop dislikes Deck's key font but then she went away. On page 582 Thermaltake made something potentially worth buying. Ripster likes pictures... also USB. Don't mess with The Duke. Filco, Filco, Filco, goodbye Filco, hello Leopold.

And then this happened.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


keyboards keyboards keyboards mechanical keyboards keyboards rubber domes food keyboards mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns keyboards keyboards food food food keyboards gaming keyboards keyboard troll troll troll keyboards mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns dirty jokes mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns keyboards television mx blues or mx browns 18th century gothic cathedrals chicken vindaloo keyboards mx blues or mx browns "why hasn't Manyak updated the OP?" troll troll troll winge keyboards wow this is a long thread keyboards keyboards food food food food food food keyboards mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns mx blues or mx browns keyboards Al Gore keyboards mx blues or mx browns keyboards troll










I..... can't... _breathe_!!!


----------



## v193r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Malerik*


Manyak wrote it. Crazy 9000 uses a a Topre realforce. Viper games on a HHKB even though the poll said he should use Brown switches. Lmnop dislikes Deck's key font but then she went away. On page 582 Thermaltake made something potentially worth buying. Ripster likes pictures... also USB. Don't mess with The Duke. Filco, Filco, Filco, goodbye Filco, hello Leopold.

And then this happened.


rofl. my choice in gaming keyboards became one of the highlights of this thread. 
WIN.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Malerik;12074677*
> Manyak wrote it. Crazy 9000 uses a a Topre realforce. Viper games on a HHKB even though the poll said he should use Brown switches. Lmnop dislikes Deck's key font but then she went away. On page 582 Thermaltake made something potentially worth buying. Ripster likes pictures... also USB. Don't mess with The Duke. Filco, Filco, Filco, goodbye Filco, hello Leopold.
> 
> And then this happened.


Add in Maytan's uncanny ability to break stuff, and TwoCables undying love of his majestouch, and you've got it all covered







.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12074873*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I..... can't... _breathe_!!!


But you usually type so much more.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12078166*
> Add in Maytan's uncanny ability to break stuff, and TwoCables undying love of his majestouch, and you've got it all covered
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Such is true.


----------



## Malerik

Finally wearing down by girlfriend in my pursuit of buying a mechanical keyboard. Even convinced her to use my G110 so that money is not technically going to waste. I really like the DAS but the shiny fingerprint finish and the return of the windows meta key are cons for me. The layout of the SS 7g/6gV2 are again not what I'm looking for. Ideally I wish the Realforce had the dip switches the tenkeyless has so I could disable the meta key. Is there another ANSI layout board that has the meta key replaced with an FN key or the ability to lock it.

The MEKA G1 seems like a possibility but there does not seem to be a lot of useful information ( plate mounted? , key cap printing? , build quality? ), are there any other boards I should be giving a hard look? It would be used mainly for gaming with some typing, 80/20 split I would say.

Would prefer to avoid, a shiny finish, MX Blues and a windows meta key if possible ( though I supposed I could just disable that in the registry). NKRO would be nice but since I've never had it before, I'm sure I could live without it.


----------



## Lanx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Malerik;12080391*
> Finally wearing down by girlfriend in my pursuit of buying a mechanical keyboard. Even convinced her to use my G110 so that money is not technically going to waste. I really like the DAS but the shiny fingerprint finish and the return of the windows meta key are cons for me. The layout of the SS 7g/6gV2 are again not what I'm looking for. Ideally I wish the Realforce had the dip switches the tenkeyless has so I could disable the meta key. Is there another ANSI layout board that has the meta key replaced with an FN key or the ability to lock it.
> 
> The MEKA G1 seems like a possibility but there does not seem to be a lot of useful information ( plate mounted? , key cap printing? , build quality? ), are there any other boards I should be giving a hard look? It would be used mainly for gaming with some typing, 80/20 split I would say.
> 
> Would prefer to avoid, a shiny finish, MX Blues and a windows meta key if possible ( though I supposed I could just disable that in the registry). NKRO would be nice but since I've never had it before, I'm sure I could live without it.


http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:12305
read the ducky review


----------



## purduepilot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Malerik;12080391*
> Finally wearing down by girlfriend in my pursuit of buying a mechanical keyboard. Even convinced her to use my G110 so that money is not technically going to waste. I really like the DAS but the shiny fingerprint finish and the return of the windows meta key are cons for me. The layout of the SS 7g/6gV2 are again not what I'm looking for. Ideally I wish the Realforce had the dip switches the tenkeyless has so I could disable the meta key. Is there another ANSI layout board that has the meta key replaced with an FN key or the ability to lock it.
> 
> The MEKA G1 seems like a possibility but there does not seem to be a lot of useful information ( plate mounted? , key cap printing? , build quality? ), are there any other boards I should be giving a hard look? It would be used mainly for gaming with some typing, 80/20 split I would say.
> 
> Would prefer to avoid, a shiny finish, MX Blues and a windows meta key if possible ( though I supposed I could just disable that in the registry). NKRO would be nice but since I've never had it before, I'm sure I could live without it.


I love my Das but I wish it had media keys for volume control. I also don't need the right Windows key or the "Special Application" key (or whatever it's called) that's next to it. Downloaded Sharpkey and remapped those two keys to be Volume Down (Windows key) and Volume Up (Application Key). Perfect solution!


----------



## Malerik

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lanx;12080526*
> http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:12305
> read the ducky review


Build quality seems pretty suspect, though that could be a particular case and not in general.

As for the DAS,the deal breaker for me is the finish. That shiny fingerprint/dust magnet bugs me. The G110 has a similar finish as does my Asus laptop and its impossible to keep it clean, drives me crazy. Would prefer a matte finish. I know its picky, but if I'm going spendy, I think that is fair.


----------



## v193r

sounds like its a hhkb you need. you wont regret it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purduepilot;12081290*
> I love my Das but I wish it had media keys for volume control. I also don't need the right Windows key or the "Special Application" key (or whatever it's called) that's next to it. Downloaded Sharpkey and remapped those two keys to be Volume Down (Windows key) and Volume Up (Application Key). Perfect solution!


That "special application" key is actually a Context Menu key. When it is pressed, it's exactly like right-clicking whatever is currently active or selected. It's useful to me when it's faster to just press that instead of right-clicking. I don't use it all that often, but I still use it once in a while, so I left it alone.


----------



## godofdeath

does anyone know which keys are what weight on the realforce 103?


----------



## xira

looks like they've phased out the Fn key over the Windows key on the US layout

source:
http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional/

PS: Debating key letters or no key letters. Only con I can see with the no letters is re-assembly when cleaning it. Thoughts?


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xira;12084917*
> looks like they've phased out the Fn key over the Windows key on the US layout
> 
> source:
> http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional/
> 
> PS: Debating key letters or no key letters. Only con I can see with the no letters is re-assembly when cleaning it. Thoughts?


theres no more fn key
yes it has been gone for a while

if you reassemble the no letters wouldnt all of them be the same size and height? unless they did the size/height variation between rows for the lettered (small keys)


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xira;12084917*
> looks like they've phased out the Fn key over the Windows key on the US layout
> 
> source:
> http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional/
> 
> PS: Debating key letters or no key letters. Only con I can see with the no letters is re-assembly when cleaning it. Thoughts?


If you play games that make use of keys such as i/o/p/m/0/9/8/etc, it's kind of annoying to press those keys with the left hand unless you really know your layout.


----------



## xira

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *godofdeath;12084948*
> theres no more fn key
> yes it has been gone for a while
> 
> if you reassemble the no letters wouldnt all of them be the same size and height? unless they did the size/height variation between rows for the lettered (small keys)


yeah

http://blog.bogosity.se/2010/09/12/reassembling-das-keyboard/


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xira;12084994*
> yeah
> 
> http://blog.bogosity.se/2010/09/12/reassembling-das-keyboard/


you will have a hard time then lol


----------



## thiru

Just make sure you separate the keys after taking them off.


----------



## xira

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Just make sure you separate the keys after taking them off.


yeah that's true, the image in that blog also helps









i think i'm gonna take the plunge and get the letter-less.

edit: I was also looking at the Razer BlackWidow Ultimate but the glowing LEDs is a bit too ricer for my tastes... I do really like the braided cables and wish the Das had them


----------



## Malerik

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


sounds like its a hhkb you need. you wont regret it.


The HHKB layout just does not work for me. One of the boards I'm looking at is the Topre tenkeyless. I like the low visibility keycaps. Speaking of which, would the HHKB blank keys that EK sells fit on the 86U? I realize they have different layouts, but for like keys would they fit? The variable weight function give me pause however. I would prefer an all 55g set up but I don't see a tenkeyless topre with all 55g switches anywhere on EK.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


you will have a hard time then lol


I don't see why it would be difficult because the row they belong to is printed/molded on the underneath side of each key.


----------



## xira

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I don't see why it would be difficult because the row they belong to is printed/molded on the underneath side of each key.


great point


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xira*


yeah that's true, the image in that blog also helps









i think i'm gonna take the plunge and get the letter-less.

edit: I was also looking at the Razer BlackWidow Ultimate but the glowing LEDs is a bit too ricer for my tastes... I do really like the braided cables and wish the Das had them


you can always sleeve by taking apart the keyboard


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *godofdeath;12084884*
> does anyone know which keys are what weight on the realforce 103?


Standard uses a weighted system of 35G for pinky keys, 45G for the rest. Except Esc which is 55G
See picture
There's also an all 55G version.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Malerik;12085206*
> Speaking of which, would the HHKB blank keys that EK sells fit on the 86U?


Nope, stems are placed differently so not all keys fit.


----------



## purduepilot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12084743*
> That "special application" key is actually a Context Menu key. When it is pressed, it's exactly like right-clicking whatever is currently active or selected. It's useful to me when it's faster to just press that instead of right-clicking. I don't use it all that often, but I still use it once in a while, so I left it alone.


I think I recall using that Context Menu key like twice ever.


----------



## ch_123

I always thought "Useless Key" was a more accurate descriptor myself.


----------



## gorb

I actually use the key fairly often


----------



## Malerik

This thread taught me what that key was for, although I forget which page it was initially mentioned on. The novelty of it has worn off for me however. It could be useful if your mouse dies but other than that I'm too programmed to right click for context/properties menus..


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gorb*


I actually use the key fairly often










Yup, me too. It's very useful if your mouse stops working or something. Especially if you don't have a mouse connected lol.


----------



## ch_123

Ok, I take that back, I find integrated right mouse buttons very useful on keyboards.










Oh wait...


----------



## 161029

I don't know if anybody has said this or seen this but...

http://store.daskeyboard.com/WASD-Ke.../dp/B004JPGYS4

http://store.daskeyboard.com/WASD-Ke.../dp/B004JPGYS4

It's about time. They look nice.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HybridCore*


I don't know if anybody has said this or seen this but...

http://store.daskeyboard.com/WASD-Ke.../dp/B004JPGYS4

http://store.daskeyboard.com/WASD-Ke.../dp/B004JPGYS4

It's about time. They look nice.


... neon green? 

Quote:



Game even faster and destroy your opponents before they realize they have engaged a bad ass gamer who owns a Das Keyboard Ultimate equipped with this blank, *inverted-T*, WASD key set


Inverted T??


----------



## drjoey1500

What is it with these keyboard companies and colors? Neon green? Seriously??

Pastel blue filco keys? Seriously??

How about red...since the daskeyboard logo is partially red...
No...that makes too much sense! Besides, lots of ppl have red rigs and we can't have the keyboard look good next to them!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


... neon green? 

Inverted T??


Inverted T is the shape of the WASD cluster. Since they are all a different color then the keyboard, that stands out.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Inverted T is the shape of the WASD cluster. Since they are all a different color then the keyboard, that stands out.


Ah I was wondering.


----------



## tehlee

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


It's the DukeNukem Forever of Keyboards.

But since DukeNukem will ship in 2011 ya never know...


So, I tracked down, and purchased a brand new Scorpius M10BL directly from iOne.

It rocked up a couple of days ago, and so far am super impressed.


----------



## ripster

Good job! Duke Nukem Forever ship date is May 3rd so I was clearly wrong.

I never could figure out how you Australians type upside down.


----------



## Malerik

This wicked looking keyboard that one of the geekhack folks reviewed,

see here:http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:13825

has a very neat key arrangement. I especially like the exact lining up of the F1-12 keys with their numerical counterparts. Looking at this layout forces me to ask if anyone knows of any other boards where the F keys are aligned this way. Would make gaming macros very interesting with a lot less travel time on the keys.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Malerik*


This wicked looking keyboard that one of the geekhack folks reviewed,

see here:http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:13825

has a very neat key arrangement. I especially like the exact lining up of the F1-12 keys with their numerical counterparts. Looking at this layout forces me to ask if anyone knows of any other boards where the F keys are aligned this way. Would make gaming macros very interesting with a lot less travel time on the keys.


He's a member here and posted the review here too







.

Most interesting aspect of it for me is the NKRO via USB. I'm hoping some other companies pick up on that.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


He's a member here and posted the review here too







.

Most interesting aspect of it for me is the NKRO via USB. I'm hoping some other companies pick up on that.


I suppose that keyboard's only in Taiwan or Japan?


----------



## Crazy9000

I don't believe they have a US distributer, no.

Speaking of imports, I just broke down and bought this: http://www.g-tune.jp/products/soluti...iece_keyboard/

Pretty much my dream keyboard except the spacebar. I would also prefer an "ANSI" (thx ripster







) enter key, but I don't think that will take much getting used to.


----------



## Hoodcom

Well, I now own two Mechanical Keyboards total now.









The Filco Majestouch FKBN87MC/EB (Cherry MX Blues), and a Chicony KB-5181 Mechanical Keyboard (SMK Monterey Switches).

The latter is one I bought from Manyak, and it's got the AT plug on it. Though I am using it on my Athlon XP 3200+ based machine as we speak.

I think I might like this better than my Filco keyboard, just the feel of it. Though the Filco does provide some advantages over this... USB so I could use it on laptops... and No Key Roll Over for PS/2.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

^ high 5

keep both.


----------



## ch_123

Those Monterey switches are meant to be pretty neat. Too bad that most keyboards that use them are relatively flimsy.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hoodcom;12095308*
> I think I might like this better than my Filco keyboard, just the feel of it. Though the Filco does provide some advantages over this... USB so I could use it on laptops... and No Key Roll Over for PS/2.


It's '_n_' key rollover, meaning that rollover works for an arbitrary number of keys. A keyboard with "no" key rollover would be pretty dire.


----------



## webwit

Quote:


> A keyboard with "no" key rollover would be pretty dire.


This is why I didn't get the orbiTouch. Although admittedly you can press both keys at once.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drjoey1500;12092558*
> What is it with these keyboard companies and colors? Neon green? Seriously??
> 
> Pastel blue filco keys? Seriously??
> 
> How about red...since the daskeyboard logo is partially red...
> No...that makes too much sense! Besides, lots of ppl have red rigs and we can't have the keyboard look good next to them!


Atleast you can have a colorful keyboard. I like neon green







. You could just do something like buy 4 sets and sell all of the green keys so you only have red keys.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12094256*
> I don't believe they have a US distributer, no.
> 
> Speaking of imports, I just broke down and bought this: http://www.g-tune.jp/products/solution/1010_masterpiece_keyboard/
> 
> Pretty much my dream keyboard except the spacebar. I would also prefer an "ANSI" (thx ripster
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) enter key, but I don't think that will take much getting used to.


Can't wait to see a review of this thing.... but seriously? That's an awesome board.

I now have found the RealForce I'll have to get when I get the money for one....

Though I agree; I'd prefer the ANSI layout as well though. Though that ISO layout doesn't look like it'd be too hard to get used to.

It's all 45G too, which seems really nice.


----------



## Malerik

That is a pretty slick looking keyboard. Is the difference between 45 and 55g switches vastly noticeable ( Gtune108 - Topre103UB)?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Malerik*


That is a pretty slick looking keyboard. Is the difference between 45 and 55g switches vastly noticeable ( Gtune108 - Topre103UB)?


Probably not apart. 
Side to side maybe.

I haven't used Topre switches so I can't really say on that one.

Though between MX-Browns & MX-Clears the difference is not entirely noticeable. It's more of what you're just adjusted to.

Like I've used mostly "heavy" switches. Between rubber domes, the ABS M1, Dell AT101W, IBM Model M, & my Deck Tactile; so using the heavy switches doesn't make my fingers tired at all.

On the other hand; some folks are adjusted to their MX-Brown's light weight press so they feel the difference more.


----------



## Hoodcom

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


It's '_n_' key rollover, meaning that rollover works for an arbitrary number of keys. A keyboard with "no" key rollover would be pretty dire.


Oops, my bad. Thanks for clearing that up for me.


----------



## v193r

want is a fair price to sell my red esc topre key for? some one at geekhack is intrested in it. count shipping too. ill cost however much those padded envelopes cost.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12099245*
> ...A keyboard with "no" key rollover would be pretty dire.


It's called a touchscreen







.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drjoey1500;12109301*
> It's called a touchscreen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


A capacitive touchscreen, at that


----------



## ch_123

Ironically, capacitive keyboards always have NKRO due to the way they work.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12110040*
> Ironically, capacitive keyboards always have NKRO due to the way they work.


By definition, aren't Topre switches capacitive?


----------



## ch_123

Yes.

Of course, with USB, you only get 6KRO, but 6KRO is something an arbitrary limitation imposed by the controller, it's really a NKRO keyboard.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Yes.

Of course, with USB, you only get 6KRO, but 6KRO is something an arbitrary limitation imposed by the controller, it's really a NKRO keyboard.


It makes me wonder why Topre boards don't have NKRO or ateast >6KRO over USB then.

It seems like something they'd want to develop in order to have extra marketing.


----------



## ch_123

But... they do? My HHKB certainly does.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


But... they do? My HHKB certainly does.


GeekHack's NKRO Wiki is only listing them as 6KRO. 
Though a HHKB user reported 47 Keys being pressed at once.


----------



## ch_123

As I said above, there's no such thing as a purpose-built 6KRO keyboard. 6KRO only occurs when a NKRO keyboard is hooked up to a standard USB controller.

When Topre made PS/2 keyboards (still might) they were fully NKRO.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12110247*
> As I said above, there's no such thing as a purpose-built 6KRO keyboard. 6KRO only occurs when a NKRO keyboard is hooked up to a standard USB controller.
> 
> When Topre made PS/2 keyboards (still might) they were fully NKRO.


Well I guess I'm just confused by what you are saying; are you saying that the Topre boards have no blocking with any 6+ key combinations on USB?


----------



## ch_123

When you consider NKRO, you have to consider both the electronics on the switching part of the keyboard, which has to be able to register keys in such a way that it doesn't prevent the controller seeing the other keys being registered, and the controller which registers those combinations and sends them on to the computer, which has to be able to send an arbitrary number of scan codes to the computer.

In the case of either a capacitive keyboard, or an individual electric switch keyboard (i.e. Cherry, Alps etc) with diodes, blocking never occurs. In the case of USB keyboards, most manufacturers arbitrarily limit the controller so that it can only send six keys + four modifiers to the computer, so the controller in such a keyboard will be able to correctly detect any number or combination of keys being pressed down, but is not able to send all of them to the computer.

The distinction is subtle, but think of it like this. A NKRO Filco is either 6KRO or NKRO depending on whether you use the PS/2 adapter or not. Is the Filco 6KRO? Is it NKRO? Is Schrodinger's Cat still alive? Is it dead? I say all four.

I think ultimately what we have here is a confusion over terminology. It would perhaps be more accurate to say that capacitive keyboards never experience blocking, and given a suitable controller will support NKRO. This is different to something like a membrane keyboard where even if the controller could support an arbitrary number of keys being sent to the computer, it can't because the electronics are not suitable to prevent blocking occurring for all combinations of keys.


----------



## Tator Tot

I see what you're saying now; the Topre boards have the potential to be NKRO but it's ultimately up to the controller.


----------



## thiru

Are the current Topres NKRO if you use a special PS/2 adapter?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I see what you're saying now; the Topre boards have the potential to be NKRO but it's ultimately up to the controller.


Yeah it's just how you look at it... everything but the controller is NKRO.

When my G-Tune realforce makes it here from Japan it'll have ps/2 and real NKRO though







.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


Are the current Topres NKRO if you use a special PS/2 adapter?


No. USB and PS/2 are completely different things, so any time you see either a mouse or keyboard that comes with a USB to PS/2 adapter, it means that the manufacturer has designed the electronics so that some PS/2 logic that is transmitted over the USB cable, and is separated out by the adapter.

As a rule of thumb, if the thing didn't come with a USB to PS/2 adapter in the box, then the manufacturer hasn't done that, and it's USB only.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Yeah it's just how you look at it... everything but the controller is NKRO.

When my G-Tune realforce makes it here from Japan it'll have ps/2 and real NKRO though







.


So where do you live again?


----------



## Malerik

If the Topre's have NKRO due to capacitive switches, and are only limited to 6KRO by the USB controller (108 G-Tune not withstanding) , then why does the first page of this thread list the Topre (and HHKB) as 3KRO? Is it 6 or 3?


----------



## srsdude

why are images missing in the OP


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Malerik;12119655*
> If the Topre's have NKRO due to capacitive switches, and are only limited to 6KRO by the USB controller (108 G-Tune not withstanding) , then why does the first page of this thread list the Topre (and HHKB) as 3KRO? Is it 6 or 3?


It's information is incorrect. I have a realforce and it has 6 key rollover, due to the USB limitation.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12119945*
> It's information is incorrect. I have a realforce and it has 6 key rollover, due to the USB limitation.


Does it have NKRO if you use a USB to PS/2 adapter?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12119984*
> Does it have NKRO if you use a USB to PS/2 adapter?


No, like many keyboards, that adapter doesn't work.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *srsdude*


why are images missing in the OP


They're still around. Just a different place.


----------



## Malerik

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


It's information is incorrect. I have a realforce and it has 6 key rollover, due to the USB limitation.


Sweet. While I'd still prefer to have a 87 UB 55g, the 103 55g is running a close second. 6KRO is more than enough for me.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Malerik*


If the Topre's have NKRO due to capacitive switches, and are only limited to 6KRO by the USB controller (108 G-Tune not withstanding) , then why does the first page of this thread list the Topre (and HHKB) as 3KRO? Is it 6 or 3?


There's quite a lot of problems with the guide. This appears to be but one of them.

3KRO? lol


----------



## purduepilot

Any good way to test the rollover of a keyboard? I found a website that does it, but it doesn't work very well because if you hold the key down and it starts repeating then it counts each repeat as a new key in its tally.


----------



## Maytan

http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscie...Explained.mspx

Use the testamabob-thingy that they have there.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purduepilot*


Any good way to test the rollover of a keyboard? I found a website that does it, but it doesn't work very well because if you hold the key down and it starts repeating then it counts each repeat as a new key in its tally.


Aqua's Key Test


----------



## Crazy9000

I'm too lazy to dig up the link, but the NKRO wiki at geekhack links to some Asian site with a good program.

(edit) Think Tator posted the program







.


----------



## purduepilot

Thanks guys! I'll give those a shot when I get home. Using the included USB -> PS/2 converter included with my Das Keyboard and want to see if it works as promised.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purduepilot*


Any good way to test the rollover of a keyboard? I found a website that does it, but it doesn't work very well because if you hold the key down and it starts repeating then it counts each repeat as a new key in its tally.


I'm sorry to everyone else for being so simple-minded and ghetto, but I use this one:

Notepad. I mean seriously: I just mash the keys.


----------



## purduepilot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I'm sorry to everyone else for being so simple-minded and ghetto, but I use this one:

Notepad. I mean seriously: I just mash the keys.











Even if you turn off the key repeat in your keyboard settings, that wouldn't tell you if a key turned "off" after you pressed another key.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purduepilot*


Even if you turn off the key repeat in your keyboard settings, that wouldn't tell you if a key turned "off" after you pressed another key.


But that doesn't affect it. I'm talking about watching for blocked keys. Sure, my method is ghetto, but it worked for me. I mean, all I need is one single mash. It's like a huge single key press over multiple keys.


----------



## purduepilot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But that doesn't affect it. I'm talking about watching for blocked keys. Sure, my method is ghetto, but it worked for me. I mean, all I need is one single mash. It's like a huge single key press over multiple keys.


So how do you know which keys you're pressing?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purduepilot*


So how do you know which keys you're pressing?


I have strange methods, but I use all 10 fingers and other objects that can press more than 10 keys at the same time. hehe


----------



## Malerik

So I don't suppose anyone knows someone who might be selling a Topre 87 UB SE1800 55g tenkeyless. I know they are essentially impossible to find at this point but I figured I would ask since its basically a board that has all the features I am looking for.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12126046*
> I have strange methods, but I use all 10 fingers and other objects that can press more than 10 keys at the same time. hehe


Right, but it's not really possible to press them at the exact same time, so with notepad you can't tell if it's reading qwert all at once, or if it went QW, then registered the ERT, and stopped registering the QW.

For example, on my realforce, which has 6kro, I can press sl,j;dfcgk down once, and it all appears. You can't really tell where the locking is, at least not consistently.

If I use the program, I can see that I can only get 6 key to register at once.


----------



## purduepilot

Tried out the one on the Microsoft page. I pushed as many keys as I could simultaneously and they all worked. No ghosting. Only thing was that after I let them go, a few keys were still "depressed". Solved by pushing each of those keys once. Not sure what was causing that.


----------



## TwoCables

It's not ghosting. Ghosting is actually something entirely different from key rollover.


----------



## ch_123

If I remember correctly, ghosting is when keys you didn't press get registered. Rather than being a normal thing, ghosting means that there's something hideously wrong with the design of your keyboard.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purduepilot;12127547*
> Tried out the one on the Microsoft page. I pushed as many keys as I could simultaneously and they all worked. No ghosting. Only thing was that after I let them go, a few keys were still "depressed". Solved by pushing each of those keys once. Not sure what was causing that.


Keyboards send out one scancode to the computer when one key is pressed, and another one when the key is released. This prevents the keyboard from having to send out a "this key is pressed" continiously, which would overflow the keyboard controller on the PC.

Point is, if you release too many keys in one go, it's possible that some of them get lost on a USB keyboard which normally only keeps track of 6 keys at once. I tested this out on my HHKB once, and the controller was designed in such a way that if you pressed a seventh key the first key that you pressed in the sequence is dropped, so the controller only keeps track of the six most recently pressed keys. Lesser controllers may not handle this scenario quite as elegantly.

That, and that test may be slightly broken


----------



## drjoey1500

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh. Enough talking. Just tell me EK has leopolds in stock already!!!







*waits impatiently*


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12126046*
> I have strange methods, but I use all 10 fingers and other objects that can press more than 10 keys at the same time. hehe


Wait, do you use your feet then? Sorry. I just had to say that. It would be








because you'd be all cooped up in a chair trying to coordinate your feet and hands so they don't hit each other. It would be funny if somebody can type something like 100 wpm with their feet. I would love to see that.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12128393*
> If I remember correctly, ghosting is when keys you didn't press get registered. Rather than being a normal thing, ghosting means that there's something hideously wrong with the design of your keyboard.


I think the problem was that NKRO reminds people of math, and also the term "ghosting" makes boards like Razers sound better. It really has 2KRO still, but they can say it has "anti-ghosting" to prevent blocked keys. To the average idiot who is reading the description, this makes a lot more sense then trying to use the proper terminology.

At a certain point, all we're doing is confusing people by saying the term ghosting is wrong. It's not like any modern keyboard really has the true ghosting issue anyways.


----------



## ch_123

The Das 3 did... as did a lot of Costar boards from a few years back.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12128393*
> If I remember correctly, ghosting is when keys you didn't press get registered. Rather than being a normal thing, ghosting means that there's something hideously wrong with the design of your keyboard.
> 
> Keyboards send out one scancode to the computer when one key is pressed, and another one when the key is released. This prevents the keyboard from having to send out a "this key is pressed" continiously, which would overflow the keyboard controller on the PC.
> 
> Point is, if you release too many keys in one go, it's possible that some of them get lost on a USB keyboard which normally only keeps track of 6 keys at once. I tested this out on my HHKB once, and the controller was designed in such a way that if you pressed a seventh key the first key that you pressed in the sequence is dropped, so the controller only keeps track of the six most recently pressed keys. Lesser controllers may not handle this scenario quite as elegantly.
> 
> That, and that test may be slightly broken


Exactly.

A good example of ghosting is when pressing 2 keys at the same time, but then a third character appears out of nowhere just as though you fat-fingered it even though your actual keystroke was clean.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore;12128560*
> Wait, do you use your feet then? Sorry. I just had to say that. It would be
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> because you'd be all cooped up in a chair trying to coordinate your feet and hands so they don't hit each other. It would be funny if somebody can type something like 100 wpm with their feet. I would love to see that.


lol!

That is all.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12129003*
> I think the problem was that NKRO reminds people of math, and also the term "ghosting" makes boards like Razers sound better. It really has 2KRO still, but they can say it has "anti-ghosting" to prevent blocked keys. To the average idiot who is reading the description, this makes a lot more sense then trying to use the proper terminology.
> 
> At a certain point, all we're doing is confusing people by saying the term ghosting is wrong. It's not like any modern keyboard really has the true ghosting issue anyways.


Not only this, but the term "ghosting" sounds cool. heh


----------



## Setre

Anyone have any expierence with this mechanical keyboard? If so what are your thoughts.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Setre*


Anyone have any expierence with this mechanical keyboard? If so what are your thoughts.


From what I've heard, it's just as good as the similar Filco, only much cheaper.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Setre*


Anyone have any expierence with this mechanical keyboard? If so what are your thoughts.


I've seen nothing but good things about this board. It's based on the Costar CST-104 which is the same keyboard that the Filco Majestouch boards are based on. So, it's essentially identical to the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click. Actually, if you use a USB to PS/2 adapter, then you get NKRO too!


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drjoey1500;12128537*
> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh. Enough talking. Just tell me EK has leopolds in stock already!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *waits impatiently*


Latest word is they won't be in until the end of February.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12146085*
> I've seen nothing but good things about this board. It's based on the Costar CST-104 which is the same keyboard that the Filco Majestouch boards are based on. So, it's essentially identical to the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click. Actually, if you use a USB to PS/2 adapter, then you get NKRO too!


As far as I know, the NKRO Filco has a different controller, such that using a PS/2 adapter with a regular Filco will not work. If the Rosewill does not have such an adapter, then it probably doesn't have a PS/2 capable controller.

EDIT: Actually, the delimiting factor with the regular Filco is the lack of diodes. It probably has the exact same controller and all.


----------



## ch_123

Apologies for double post, but thought this was worthy of a bump.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12147823*
> As far as I know, the NKRO has a different controller, such that using a PS/2 adapter with a regular Filco will not work. If the Rosewill does not have such an adapter, then it probably doesn't have a PS/2 capable controller.


The Rosewill board is already confirmed to be NKRO and works with the Purple PS/2 adapter.


----------



## ch_123

My bad so.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Latest word is they won't be in until the end of February.


Figures. They'll probably delay it again. Early march, oh wait make that late march...just kidding we meant May.


----------



## rpgman1

Long delays for both EK and XArmor on their keyboards, but Deck has got their keyboards slightly early. Still debating on a Cherry MX Brown keyboard.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


As far as I know, the NKRO Filco has a different controller, such that using a PS/2 adapter with a regular Filco will not work. If the Rosewill does not have such an adapter, then it probably doesn't have a PS/2 capable controller.

EDIT: Actually, the delimiting factor with the regular Filco is the lack of diodes. It probably has the exact same controller and all.


Tator Tot said what I was going to say about the Rosewill's NKRO (so, thank you Tator Tot!), but there's still one more thing that I didn't mention before: all of the Filco Majestouch boards that were offered by Elite Keyboards came with a USB to PS/2 adapter. The only reason why I remember this is because I remember seeing that a USB to PS/2 adapter was also included with the non-NKRO boards (the full-size boards) and then asking about it here in the Guide.


----------



## v193r

does any one actually not bottom out on their topre. i find it hard not to and just type as i want to. i also heard it was easier on browns.


----------



## Crazy9000

I don't always bottom out when I game, but I don't try to or try not to consciously.


----------



## Maytan

EK's Leopolds are the Schrodinger's Cat of keyboards.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


EK's Leopolds are the Schrodinger's Cat of keyboards.


They might be alive or dead? I think they're just slow







.


----------



## fssbzz

this time is NKRO over detachable USB.








http://www.overclock.net/12188308-post1556.html


----------



## yellowtoblerone

What program do you all use to remap your key?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12169940*
> I don't always bottom out when I game, but I don't try to or try not to consciously.


I don't always bottom out when I game, but when I do I use topre, while drinking dos equis.


----------



## Munkypoo7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12188772*
> What program do you all use to remap your key?


AutoHotKey or SharpKeys...

Though I'd recommend AutoHotKey over SharpKeys just because sometimes SharpKeys just doesn't wanna work


----------



## thiru

What's annoying about autohotkey is that it's a script so you have to have it running, and in some games the keys don't work as intended.
Sharpkey is less powerful but enough for most people.


----------



## purduepilot

I used Sharpkey to remap two unused keys to be Volume Up and Down. I just wish Sharpkey would work for key combinations like CTRL+F12 or something like that.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purduepilot*


I used Sharpkey to remap two unused keys to be Volume Up and Down. I just wish Sharpkey would work for key combinations like CTRL+F12 or something like that.


You can use KeyboardLink if you prefer keyboard shortcuts:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/keyboardlink/

It doesn't get installed, but instead you just run it, right-click its icon in the Notification Area, and then choose Settings to set it up.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I use a combination of registry hacks and Cherry's macro software. The registry hacks I did are basically the same thing as Sharpkeys does, except that I was able to remap the Pause and Scroll lock keys, which Sharpkeys is incapable of modifying since they're prefaced with an E1 instead of an E0. Go figure.

Why didn't I use Cherry's software for those keys? Because I wanted to remap Pause to act as Print Screen, and when a Cherry macro activates it brings up a little thing saying "Software Macro", which would show up when using print screen. Plus the software macros have a slight delay.


----------



## TwoCables

SharpKeys knows Scroll Lock. I remapped it to be "Media: Play/Pause" (which is E0_22). Except, it thinks Pause/Break is Num Lock.


----------



## ch_123

IIRC, Pause/Break is a bit weird and doesnt behave like other keys.


----------



## xira

I'm about to order a board myself, been debating the Das Model S Ultiamte and the Rosewill RK-9000, leaning towards the rosewill simply due to the non-glossy finish, gonna order soon - about 90% decided. thoughts?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xira*


I'm about to order a board myself, been debating the Das Model S Ultiamte and the Rosewill RK-9000, leaning towards the rosewill simply due to the non-glossy finish, gonna order soon - about 90% decided. thoughts?


Das gives you a USB 1.1 hub to work with. Though it's only really useful for dongles for wireless peripherals because USB 1.1 is slow.

Personally, based on fit & finish I'd go for the Rosewill board. It's a piece of work and it's red-metal plate is actually pretty striking.


----------



## Geneticus

I've spent about 16 hours over the last two days looking for the perfect keyboard only to find out that the most promising candidates are either out of stock or the company has gone out of business. I seem to find either mechanical keyboards or keyboards that have everything else. I would probably get a Razer BW ultimate if they hadn't gone and reversed the shifted keys or replace the caps if they were available. At the moment I'm looking at the Deck models, but wondering what to look for in a supplier of custom key caps(size, height, fit, etc.) I think I'm going to just set up a custom cap colored gaming layout on one, and add a second blue mx for every day typing. I just wish the Optimus Maximus wasn't so damn expensive, not to mention in stock anyplace. Any one know about getting custom caps for cherry switches?


----------



## v193r

Side Note. I think backlit keyboard are overrated on the coolness scale. I feel my blank keys look 1337.
































<1% of ppl can use my kb unless they know the hhkb layout, colemak and can touch type.


----------



## webwit

LED backlit keyboards are like hair in the eighties, like women wearing shoulder padding, like Ace of Base. Once a fashion, now obviously the result of brain damage. In 15 years, your kid will pull a LED backlit keyboard from the attic and (s)he will laugh at you, ridicule you, and it will be a turning point, because a certain form of respect and awe for the parent is lost forever. Don't worry, it's part of growing up.


----------



## purduepilot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


IIRC, Pause/Break is a bit weird and doesnt behave like other keys.


Well the BREAK key is supposed to be a program interrupt key, like if you're running a script that gets stuck in an infinite loop or whatever. To be honest, though, I don't know if it actually works any differently nowadays than the equivalent CTRL+C or whatever.


----------



## xira

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12223172*
> Das gives you a USB 1.1 hub to work with. Though it's only really useful for dongles for wireless peripherals because USB 1.1 is slow.
> 
> Personally, based on fit & finish I'd go for the Rosewill board. It's a piece of work and it's red-metal plate is actually pretty striking.


Yeah I really don't care about ports but I love the blank keys on the Ultimate, although I guess I could buy blank caps for the Rosewill it's just something I don't want to deal with. Also pretty annoying I have to buy a seperate USB>PS2 adapter since the Rosewill doesn't ship with one. I like the weight of the Das but I like the smaller profile of the Rosewill. I've also never heard a Rosewill in person, and although they should be similar since they are both Cherry MX Blues I am skeptical. But with that said, the glossy finish is a huge drawback not because of the cleaning, but because of the delicate scratching. I'm really torn and I understand both will be great choices but it's hard to make a decision, but I will make one by Friday.

(fyi: I looked at the upcoming Leopold/Lei on geekhack but wasn't really impressed)


----------



## webwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v193r;12224488*
> <1% of ppl can use my kb unless they know the hhkb layout, colemak and can touch type.


Are you talking about me?


----------



## v193r

maybe, do you not fulfill the requirements?


----------



## Maytan

Don't mind me, just waiting for those Leopolds from EK.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Don't mind me, just waiting for those Leopolds from EK.











Ho! Art they coming out so soon son? I do not know what thou meanest by EK but I wait still for the Leopolds from double-u double-u double-u dot classy keyboards dot com.

I did hear a rumor that the gentlemen over at yonder internet location may thought they needs change the name of their dwelling to some vulgar and horrific thing. I personally find 'classy' to be sufficient and would be appalled at any change especially to the likes of any modern whim.


----------



## Crazy9000

EK= Elitekeyboards.

I don't think that datacal has any plans to stock Leopolds.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xira*


Yeah I really don't care about ports but I love the blank keys on the Ultimate, although I guess I could buy blank caps for the Rosewill it's just something I don't want to deal with. Also pretty annoying I have to buy a seperate USB>PS2 adapter since the Rosewill doesn't ship with one. I like the weight of the Das but I like the smaller profile of the Rosewill. I've also never heard a Rosewill in person, and although they should be similar since they are both Cherry MX Blues I am skeptical. But with that said, the glossy finish is a huge drawback not because of the cleaning, but because of the delicate scratching. I'm really torn and I understand both will be great choices but it's hard to make a decision, but I will make one by Friday.

(fyi: I looked at the upcoming Leopold/Lei on geekhack but wasn't really impressed)


Never fear: you can order this USB to PS/2 adapter with the Rosewill keyboard:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812200349


----------



## v193r

im be attending school 2morrow with my hhkb. and last time i got asked if my laptop kb was broken, why are they are the keys blank, and why is it better. i wasnt quick and witty enough to give as good of an answer as i had wanted. i said mech kbs give feedback so you know when you pressed the key and blank keys make touch typing easier sorta. Im still not happy with these weak arguments. gimme some inspiration/convincing arguments.

Here is what I got so far:
mechs give tactile feedback
can make you a better typist since you dont need to bottom out thus less fatigue
keys dont get mushy. nothing wears out.
scupted keys put less stress on the finger moving.
I would say "Very quick snap back into rest position" -Manyak. But scissor/chitlet switches on my laptop are faster and you can test this by playing snake and seeing which switch is easier to actuate and doubletap and speed of actuation.

Manyak needs to update his the nkro and usb vs ps2 section now that nkro usb is out on a few kbs.


----------



## technodanvan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v193r*


gimme some inspiration/convincing arguments.


There are no arguments that will both make you feel good about yourself and make others think you're anything but elitist and lame.

Sorry dude, just part of the territory.


----------



## Crazy9000

Just say you love typing on it and it looks nice to you. That's all you really need to say.


----------



## v193r

if anything ill let them type on it. if that doesnt convince them, i wont try.
ill let the hhkb do the talking.


----------



## strap624

Anyways, I just picked up a Black Widow keyboard. I love it. Really easy to type on and much more accurate than my old logitech rubber dome. Still getting used to it for gaming. I should have gotten a mechanical years ago, what a difference!


----------



## purduepilot

Mechanical keyboards feel much better to type on. That mushy **** in the computer labs at school is hard to type on.


----------



## _GTech

Wow never seen Keyboard Rocket Science...


----------



## Malerik

Random question... Does anyone know what the Deck Legend keys are made of? PBT, ABS, POM, other? Been trying to find out and surprisingly this is proving harder to find than I would have thought.


----------



## Crazy9000

lmnop would know, but haven't seen her post in forever. Search her posts and Deck, and maybe it will come up.


----------



## W4LNUT5

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Malerik*


Random question... Does anyone know what the Deck Legend keys are made of? PBT, ABS, POM, other? Been trying to find out and surprisingly this is proving harder to find than I would have thought.


I choose to believe they are made of Awesome, but that probably doesn't help you.


----------



## Malerik

Information is not listed in the geekhack wiki either, although there are some really nice pictures.


----------



## Malerik

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


actually it's both.

from geekhack.

from deck.

TG3 82 Model










so final answer. they are double-shot molded, made out of polyester which is a soft, high impact plastic and the printing is sublimated dye.

if it wasn't for the font these would probably be the best keycaps you can get.

Christine



2. Keycaps are made of Polyester (PBT) except the spacebar which is ABS.

Best Regards,
Adam Martin
IT Administrator/Webmaster
TG3 Electronics, Inc.
http://www.tg3electronics.com

[email protected]
PH: (262)652-2626
FX: (262)652-2121

Crazy 9000 you sir are a genius. This was from page 137 of the guide. The above tidbit did not come through the quote function but id from the same post.


----------



## Malerik

Crazy you have a Deck and a Topre. I know from past posts you said that you enjoyed the Realforce to the point where you do not game on the Deck much anymore. Was it a linear or tactile Deck? I'm trying to figure out if the MX Clear is a close approximation to a Realforce 55g. I would guess MX Clear or MX Brown would be nearest.

Or am I entirely off.


----------



## Crazy9000

The Deck I have is linear.

No cherry switch is a close approximation to the topre keys, they feel completely different.


----------



## visiblewind

Alright, my friend informed me that the Cherry MX Black keys felt horrible to type on. He's comparing it to the buckling spring keys in the IBM Model M and the Unicomp keyboards. Are Cherry MX Blacks really that terrible for typing, or have you guys had no problems with them? I'm leaning towards the Deck Legend, but just wanted to clear that up.


----------



## Crazy9000

I don't mind typing on the blacks, but my mom hates them.

Deck also offers MX clear switches on a few of their boards, which are similar to the browns.


----------



## visiblewind

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12267287*
> I don't mind typing on the blacks, but my mom hates them.
> 
> Deck also offers MX clear switches on a few of their boards, which are similar to the browns.


Well, my friend described the blacks as feeling like rubber dome keys but more "clicky" and stiff, and it takes a noticeable amount of extra force to press a key down compared to rubber domes. Something like that.

EDIT: I'm an idiot. Didn't realize the "tactile" option were clears, not blacks lol. What about those, any problems with clears?


----------



## Tator Tot

Blacks are a linear switch, it's a strait push down.

Depending on the domes, it can take more force. Old domes usually take very little force, while new ones take a lot of force.

Blacks are better than domes to me, for typing. Though I would much rather use Buckling Springs if it's just a typing keyboard.
Or a MX-Blue board if you want something more compact or modern looking.


----------



## Marin

So I can't get some of the HHKB function keys working.


----------



## runeazn

i must get a miniguru !!!1


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *runeazn*


i must get a miniguru !!!1


I think they never made those.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *visiblewind*


He's comparing it to the buckling spring keys in the IBM Model M and the Unicomp keyboards.


Blacks are nothing like buckling springs at all at all.

Some of my buckling spring keyboards are actually quite light.


----------



## murderbymodem

I think I'll be buying the Cherry Black version of this keyboard via Obook shortly. I really think this will be a great keyboard for LAN parties.

Question about the switches though, will Cherry MX Blacks be quieter than ***ka or Alps switches? I've previously owned an ABS M1, as well as a Filco Zero Series, and was forced to sell them because my family was constantly complaining about the noise. Will the cherry blacks be any better?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;12288004*
> I think I'll be buying the Cherry Black version of this keyboard via Obook shortly. I really think this will be a great keyboard for LAN parties.
> 
> Question about the switches though, will Cherry MX Blacks be quieter than ***ka or Alps switches? I've previously owned an ABS M1, as well as a Filco Zero Series, and was forced to sell them because my family was constantly complaining about the noise. Will the cherry blacks be any better?


They can be quieter, the the sound is gonna be the same if you bottom out.

You can use the dental band method to silence them and you won't bottom out then.


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12288074*
> They can be quieter, the the sound is gonna be the same if you bottom out.
> 
> You can use the dental band method to silence them and you won't bottom out then.


Doh. That's why I'm going with Blacks, I do bottom out. Never bothered to learn to not bottom out with my M1 or Zero Series, and I don't think I will with this one either.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;12288102*
> Doh. That's why I'm going with Blacks, I do bottom out. Never bothered to learn to not bottom out with my M1 or Zero Series, and I don't think I will with this one either.


I would try the dental bands thing. It should help you.

At least; unlike XM & ***ka's, the MX-Blacks are much nicer switches as they're not as "rough" feeling.


----------



## Boyboyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;12288102*
> Doh. That's why I'm going with Blacks, I do bottom out. Never bothered to learn to not bottom out with my M1 or Zero Series, and I don't think I will with this one either.


I feel exactly the same way. I never learnt not to bottom out, so blues confused me and i mis-pressed keys sometimes when my fingers were just resting on them.

Ordered a tenkeyless filco with blacks today after consulting this guide *heavily*.


----------



## Marin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marin;12281070*
> So I can't get some of the HHKB function keys working.


*ahem*


----------



## FightingEdge

I love my keyboard.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marin;12289049*
> *ahem*


It's expensive keyboard syndrome. Your keyboard cost so much it created an asymptote in the fabric of the universe which happened to be where your function keys are. I suggest staying away from those keys. You may be slaying people in alternate universes...or worse.


----------



## webwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drjoey1500;12289272*
> It's expensive keyboard syndrome. Your keyboard cost so much it created an asymptote in the fabric of the universe which happened to be where your function keys are. I suggest staying away from those keys. You may be slaying people in alternate universes...or worse.


Either that, or he is referring to the volume keys, which only work on a Mac.


----------



## v193r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


*ahem*


mine work. thou i only use the arrow keys. and f1-12 occasionally.


----------



## Marin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


Either that, or he is referring to the volume keys, which only work on a Mac.


*punches monitor*

Damn. Guess it's time to use sharpkeys again.

EDIT: Also, I'm liking my HHKB more for gaming. Ruh oh.


----------



## v193r

I love my HHKB for gaming. Cant imagine using anything else. Id like to try some cherry browns thou.


----------



## Maytan

Any news on EK and their Leopolds? I'm getting sick of this crumby Dell board, seriously.


----------



## bloke226

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maytan;12296582*
> Any news on EK and their Leopolds? I'm getting sick of this crumby Dell board, seriously.


Thought you were going to get something from AG? To answer your question...sometime this month if EK is telling the truth lol.


----------



## Maytan

I was originally, but I decided to wait and see the pricing on the Leopolds. (the detachable USB chord is quite desirable for my uses)


----------



## bloke226

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maytan;12296875*
> I was originally, but I decided to wait and see the pricing on the Leopolds. (the detachable USB chord is quite desirable for my uses)


More power to you if you wait it out, which shouldn't be longer I hope. I'm curious about more first impressions of the board.


----------



## dizzyscure1

Ok people hands down what's the best GAMING keyboard I can find under $250 in the US??? I play 70% RTS 30% FPS. Lead me to my future love please, +REP for the people who hook me up with her!


----------



## thiru

You wouldn't know until you tried them all... it's preference...


----------



## Crazy9000

Realforce is best







.

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,realforce&pid=rf_se02c0


----------



## dizzyscure1

Is it wrong to want backlighting on the keys? I play in a very dark room and was looking into the backlite keyboards.


----------



## ch_123

Jesus is my backlight.


----------



## dizzyscure1

What about this? Deck Keyboard Linear? Any good for my needs?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dizzyscure1;12298971*
> What about this? Deck Keyboard Linear? Any good for my needs?


Sure.


----------



## dizzyscure1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12298878*
> jesus is my backlight.


lol!


----------



## dizzyscure1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12298982*
> Sure.


So I guess I will pull the trigger on this one, what the difference between linear & tactile models when gaming?


----------



## Crazy9000

Tactile keys have a little "Bump" so you know you've pressed the key. Depends on if you think that's a good thing or not.


----------



## Boyboyd

I only found out about that after i'd bought my first mechanical. I found it pointless as i bottom out every time anyway. Getting linear (black) switches next time.

It's mostly personal preference.


----------



## dizzyscure1

Thanks for all the info. I'm going for the Deck Legend linear in ice, can't wait to feel what I've been missing!


----------



## Crazy9000

The decks are nice boards, i'm sure you won't be disapointed.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Is it me, or does deck boards look very ugly

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Jesus is my backlight.


You mean you haven't gotten your halo yet? Com'n son.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Is it me, or does deck boards look very ugly
.


It's just you.

Lots of people aren't a huge fan of the font though.


----------



## Boyboyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12304303*
> Is it me, or does deck boards look very ugly


I quite like the actual board, but i really don't like the font they use.


----------



## raidmaxGuy

Thinking of getting my first Mech KB soon... 
but I cannot decide between Blues or Browns, it seems that the Blues have issues with double tapping, which i tend to do a lot while gaming... the blues are also clicky.. which isnt necessarily a problem

the browns are pretty much good for both gaming and typing, and i do quite a bit of typing...

some advice would be good, I am wanting to get away from rubber domes and scissor switches.. but dont get me wrong i love my Logitech G110

also, feel free to recommend i different switch type if you find that it would suit me better


----------



## black!ce

Quote:



Originally Posted by *raidmaxGuy*


Thinking of getting my first Mech KB soon... 
but I cannot decide between Blues or Browns, it seems that the Blues have issues with double tapping, which i tend to do a lot while gaming... the blues are also clicky.. which isnt necessarily a problem

the browns are pretty much good for both gaming and typing, and i do quite a bit of typing...

some advice would be good, I am wanting to get away from rubber domes and scissor switches.. but dont get me wrong i love my Logitech G110

also, feel free to recommend i different switch type if you find that it would suit me better


i got me self a razer blackwidow ultimate and the only thing im missing from my old G15 is the palm rest .... the very clicks make me wanna type more and more ... its totally worth it man trust me


----------



## raidmaxGuy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *black!ce;12315889*
> i got me self a razer blackwidow ultimate and the only thing im missing from my old G15 is the palm rest .... the very clicks make me wanna type more and more ... its totally worth it man trust me


yeah i know.. i just cant for the life of me decide between Blues or Browns


----------



## thiru

If you game and are afraid of double tapping issues go with browns.


----------



## raidmaxGuy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12317998*
> If you game and are afraid of double tapping issues go with browns.


thank you, rep +


----------



## Boyboyd

I had blues and i switched to browns. They're linear so there's no half-way actuation point.


----------



## thiru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boyboyd;12319120*
> I had blues and i switched to browns. They're linear so there's no half-way actuation point.


They're not linear.
And the actuation point is halfway. Like all Cherry MX switches.


----------



## Boyboyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12319156*
> They're not linear.
> And the actuation point is halfway. Like all Cherry MX switches.


Sorry, i meant black.


----------



## ch_123

They still actuate half way down. You're thinking of the tactile point.


----------



## Boyboyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12319210*
> They still actuate half way down. You're thinking of the tactile point.


I am, thanks. Since i never learnt not to stop at the tactile point, blues got in my way.

Still going to have to wait almost a month for my blacks


----------



## bloke226

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raidmaxGuy;12317960*
> yeah i know.. i just cant for the life of me decide between Blues or Browns


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12317998*
> If you game and are afraid of double tapping issues go with browns.


I'd go with blues and if you don't like it, I'm sure you wouldn't have an issue reselling it and buy browns. I think Thiru was giving you some "safe" advice by going with the browns. Personally I'd go with the blues and if you play SCII, I'm sure you're familiar with teamliquid.net and there is a mix of brown and blue users and both enjoy them.

I don't find any issues in FPS or RTS games with double tapping. My younger brother who plays 60+hrs of PC gaming used my keyboard many times hasn't had any double tapping issues. He mainly plays SCII and TF2.

I'm not trying to sell you blues, but the double tapping issue isn't as bad as people make it seem. I think I've seen maybe 10% of the people who post that use blues for gaming complain about double tapping, otherwise people don't see it as an issue.

Bottom line: Get blues, double tapping isn't an issue for most (imo), but YMMV.


----------



## thiru

You could get a Das with either blues or browns, and return it before the end of the month in case you don't like it.

Definitely try that if you like the clickiness.


----------



## bloke226

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12319568*
> You could get a Das with either blues or browns, and return it before the end of the month in case you don't like it.
> 
> Definitely try that if you like the clickiness.


^Even better.


----------



## purduepilot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


You could get a Das with either blues or browns, and return it before the end of the month in case you don't like it.

Definitely try that if you like the clickiness.


While I love my Das with browns, I was going to switch it for blues instead since I feel like that would be more suited to what I want. (When trying to not bottom out, I sometimes don't push the keys far enough to actuate them.)

Here's the correspondence:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *me*

Hi,

I recently purchased a Model S Professional Silent using an educational discount(within the last two weeks). I love the keyboard, but I think I would prefer the non-silent model for the audible feedback. Can you tell me what costs I might incur for an exchange and what the turnaround time would be?

Thanks,



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Das*

| Hi Brad,
|
| I will be happy to assist you with an exchange. Because the exchange is not due to a defect or error of Das Keyboard you are responsible for the shipping costs both ways. The ground shipping charge for the new keyboard is $10. We will refund you the cost different between the silent and clicky model as well.
|
| Turn around time would probably be about two weeks, maybe a little more, when you factor in the shipping times. We allow up to five business days to send a new keyboard out (we test all keyboards before replacements are shipped), but we often have a shorter turn around than that.
|
| If you would like to go ahead with the exchange just let me know, and I will assign an EMA number and give further instructions.
|
| Regards,


Not that I'm complaining, but when I bought the keyboard I was under the impression that I could swap it a little easier/cheaper. I'm not going to swap the keyboards now, but when I go back to work this summer I might buy the one with blues to use at home and take my browns to work (I work near other people and our office is typically pretty quiet).


----------



## ch_123

Going to throw in this for reference.

In general, keep an eye on the Deskthority wiki. Sheetloads of keyboard info coming soon* to a screen near you.

_* Soon is strictly relative in this context._


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *purduepilot*


While I love my Das with browns, I was going to switch it for blues instead since I feel like that would be more suited to what I want. (When trying to not bottom out, I sometimes don't push the keys far enough to actuate them.)

Here's the correspondence:

Not that I'm complaining, but when I bought the keyboard I was under the impression that I could swap it a little easier/cheaper. I'm not going to swap the keyboards now, but when I go back to work this summer I might buy the one with blues to use at home and take my browns to work (I work near other people and our office is typically pretty quiet).










I can't imagine any company being any easier or cheaper for an exchange. Most places would charge you a 10-15% restock fee on top of all that.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Going to throw in this for reference.

In general, keep an eye on the Deskthority wiki. Sheetloads of keyboard info coming soon* to a screen near you.

_* Soon is strictly relative in this context._


Wow. Has as few pics as the OP.


----------



## ch_123

The idea for the kids book fell through.


----------



## ripster

Are any of the keyboards in the OP still shipping in the USA?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12328808*
> Are any of the keyboards in the OP still shipping in the USA?


A few







.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

rippy's always picking on the op.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;12329189*
> rippy's always picking on the op.


Considering this thread has over a million views and the information is getting pretty dated at this point, he has valid concerns.


----------



## Ivan TSI

nvm


----------



## Crazy9000

Deck 82 is best because I said so.


----------



## Murinus

Tonight, i just found a site that sells Deck keyboards AND ships to Greece(http://www.performance-pcs.com/).. must admit that i'm really excited.I guess it is time to forget about the Black Widow, but i do have some questions regarding the Deck Legend - Ice(tactile)unfortunately i couldn't find this information anywhere - so i thought i should ask here.

First of all, i should mention that my silly mobo doesn't have PS/2 so there goes NKRO and the sweet 0.6MS.Question is, what's the polling rate for the USB one?And does the USB version come with some form of anti-ghosting?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

USB doesn't magically remove the diodes from the keyboard. It just acts as a bottleneck, won't let more than 6+4 keys through it at once. Anything up to 6 keys will still work fine. And USB is still plenty fast, anything less than 10ms is perceived as instantaneous anyway.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


USB doesn't magically remove the diodes from the keyboard. It just acts as a bottleneck, won't let more than 6+4 keys through it at once. Anything up to 6 keys will still work fine. And USB is still plenty fast, anything less than 10ms is perceived as instantaneous anyway.


The controller limits it to 6+4, not USB itself.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


The controller limits it to 6+4, not USB itself.


Or you could argue the USB HID drivers. The controller was made to match the drivers.

But you're splitting hairs. The fact that it's USB only introduces a bottleneck, it does not remove the feature.


----------



## Murinus

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


USB doesn't magically remove the diodes from the keyboard. It just acts as a bottleneck, won't let more than 6+4 keys through it at once. Anything up to 6 keys will still work fine. And USB is still plenty fast, anything less than 10ms is perceived as instantaneous anyway.


So, the Deck Legend does have some anti-ghosting(assuming that this is the right term)does every single usb 2.0 keyboard offer this?

I mean razer is selling this as something special:

From their site: "Yes, the Razer BlackWidow does have anti-ghosting capabilities. The Razer BlackWidow is a USB only keyboard that features a gaming optimized key matrix that allows the recognition of up to six simultaneous key presses."


----------



## ch_123

Nope, the standard USB HID driver will work with the magic NKRO over USB keyboards that are out these days. It's purely a USB controller issue.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Murinus*


So, the Deck Legend does have some anti-ghosting(assuming that this is the right term)does every single usb 2.0 keyboard offer this?

I mean razer is selling this as something special:

From their site: "Yes, the Razer BlackWidow does have anti-ghosting capabilities. The Razer BlackWidow is a USB only keyboard that features a gaming optimized key matrix that allows the recognition of up to six simultaneous key presses."


I recommend reading the guide at the start of this thread... Ghosting and key blocking are very separate and different things. Decks wont have ghosting, and they wont have key blocking, but you are limited to pressing any combination of six keys at once. Given that the Blackwidow will fail with certain combinations of more than two keys, it is inferior to the Deck. It's also built like a toy compared with the Deck.

Goes to show the power of marketing though...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Murinus*


So, the Deck Legend does have some anti-ghosting(assuming that this is the right term)does every single usb 2.0 keyboard offer this?

I mean razer is selling this as something special:

From their site: "Yes, the Razer BlackWidow does have anti-ghosting capabilities. The Razer BlackWidow is a USB only keyboard that features a gaming optimized key matrix that allows the recognition of up to six simultaneous key presses."


Ghosting is actually an incorrect term. Here's an example of ghosting: you press two keys simultaneously in Notepad, but a third character appears as though you fat-fingered it even though your keystroke was perfectly clean. This problem is almost non-existent with today's keyboards.

The actual term they _should_ be using is "Key Rollover". The term "NKRO" stands for "N-Key Rollover". N-Key Rollover means that all 104 of the keys could be pressed simultaneously and yet they would still all go through. So what Razer is saying is this: the BlackWidow's matrix has supposedly been designed so that when it comes to gaming (when it comes to using the WASD cluster), there should be no chances of blocked keys due to a lack of key rollover among those keys. Except, I guess "Anti-Ghosting" sounds better than something like _"improved key rollover for gaming allowing up to 6 simultaneous key presses!" _(so, I guess they'd rather use terms that sound cool even though they're completely incorrect). I mean, they are actually talking about key rollover, but yet they refuse to stop using the term "Anti-Ghosting" because they're afraid to take the time to educate their customers.

So, here's how I would have worded that answer in the FAQ:

"Yes, the Razer BlackWidow does have improved key rollover for gaming. The Razer BlackWidow is a USB-only keyboard that features a gaming optimized key matrix that allows the recognition of up to six simultaneous key presses. This means that you'll never have any key rollover issues when gaming (no blocked keys)."

Here's the original for comparison:

"Yes, the Razer BlackWidow does have anti-ghosting capabilities. The Razer BlackWidow is a USB only keyboard that features a gaming optimized key matrix that allows the recognition of up to six simultaneous key presses."

But in reality, I wouldn't worry about it. I've seen enough comments in this thread proving that NKRO isn't necessary for gaming. I mean, it sounds like most good mechanical USB-only mechanical keyboards (such as the Deck Legend you're looking at) have no key rollover issues for gaming.


----------



## Marin

So now I can't switch back to my Filco. Topre is the equivalent to crack.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marin;12368252*
> So now I can't switch back to my Filco. Topre is the equivalent to crack.


Wasn't life beautiful when a keyboard was a keyboard. One thing leads to another...hundreds later on keyboards...hate of flexing crappy mice...I have to scrape all the scum off the mice feet at school because they stick to the desks...I despise the rubber dome keyboards at school because they're hard to type on...Wasn't it all so nice when I didn't care?..............

....
...
....

...
...

....
...
...
....

NOPE! I didn't think so. Ignorance is not always bliss boys and girls, now WHERE IS MY LEOPOLD!?!?!?!?!1?!!?!!???/!?!?


----------



## purduepilot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


Wasn't life beautiful when a keyboard was a keyboard. One thing leads to another...hundreds later on keyboards...hate of flexing crappy mice...I have to scrape all the scum off the mice feet at school because they stick to the desks...I despise the rubber dome keyboards at school because they're hard to type on...Wasn't it all so nice when I didn't care?..............

NOPE! I didn't think so. Ignorance is not always bliss boys and girls, now WHERE IS MY LEOPOLD!?!?!?!?!1?!!?!!???/!?!?


I used to not be able to work on the computers on campus because they were slow as balls. Now I can't work on them because they're slow as balls and it hurts to type on their keyboards.


----------



## runeazn

^lol


----------



## webwit

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lmnop*


if your interested in the keycaps you can buy a Cherry G80 set of POM Blanks for $29 USD at inpad.com.tw but not all will be compatible with Filco. there is a TG3 82 model on eBay for $49 I think and one that sold for $36 a couple weeks ago they have PBT Double Shot & Sublimated keycaps that are compatible with Cherry G80 which means they are compatible with Filco. I mention this because of your interest in keycaps on geekhack.

again I apologize.

I still think the Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-2 is worth it. with shipping the price is between a Deck Legend and a Topre. you can probably count on your fingers how many people in America have Cherry MX Red switches so it's a bit of a collectors item. I think the Cherry MX Red switches would be great for typing and gaming, poor man's Topre's plus the POM keycaps which are rare.

Christine


I wrote a review of the G80-3494LYCUS-2 with the Cherry red switches over here. In short, I respectfully but wildly disagree.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


I wrote a review of the G80-3494LYCUS-2 with the Cherry red switches over here. In short, I respectfully but wildly disagree.


Where did you stumble across that almost 1 year old post?


----------



## webwit

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Where did you stumble across that almost 1 year old post?










I just wanted to mention lmnop









EDIT: This thread looks very nice and clean now!


----------



## ripster

I like clean 11039 post count threads. I've got pretty good at the OCN search engine as a result.


----------



## Tator Tot

Well in some welcomed news, Post #7 of this thread has been updated with old keyboards no longer shown and readily available keyboards updated.


----------



## Crazy9000

A minor correction: I believe you mean Realforce 86u, not 87. They both have variable weight keys, not 55g.

The difference being the 87u has a right hand windows key, the 86u does not. EK only has the 86u in stock.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12390478*
> A minor correction: I believe you mean Realforce 86u, not 87. They both have variable weight keys, not 55g.
> 
> The difference being the 87u has a right hand windows key, the 86u does not. EK only has the 86u in stock.


I'll fix it.

Thanks for pointing that out.


----------



## gorb

The steelseries 7g and iRocks KR-6230 are both deactivated on newegg's site and have been for awhile, I think.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gorb*


The steelseries 7g and iRocks KR-6230 are both deactivated on newegg's site and have been for awhile, I think.


i-Rocks is sold through another store, which is linked.

And the SteelSeries 7G was active last week I do believe.

EDIT: Also, Deactivated only means Out Of Stock (OOS.) N


----------



## gorb

Ah, I see.

I don't see the link to buy that irocks keyboard elsewhere though. Maybe I'm blind.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gorb*


Ah, I see.

I don't see the link to buy that irocks keyboard elsewhere though. Maybe I'm blind.


The iRocks may be removed just because it's hard to find.

If you wanted to, you can buy direct on the SteelSeries 7G (though they are out of stock which is probably why Newegg is as well.) You can also buy the 6Gv2 Direct


----------



## gorb

Word. I'm actually not interested in either keyboard cuz I already have a cherry mx black board, and I hate the big enter key on the steelseries boards


----------



## Boyboyd

What do you think of cherry black switches? I've got a filco tenkeyless with blacks incoming.

I really don't like the look of the steelseries 7g. Far too much plastic at the front for my tastes.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gorb*


Word. I'm actually not interested in either keyboard cuz I already have a cherry mx black board, and I hate the big enter key on the steelseries boards










Personally, I like the overall build of the SteelSeries boards; they are solid in that regard. Though I'm with you, the altered layout gets me.

Personally though; I've used, abused, and owned to many Mech Keyboards. Cherry, Deck, SteelSeries, Filco, ABS, Matias, iOne, Razer, Adesso, Rosewill, iRocks, & iOne/Xarmor.

So many boards, so much typing.

I need to get an Ergo board or a RealForce next. Both are ~$300 investments though.


----------



## gorb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Boyboyd*


What do you think of cherry black switches? I've got a filco tenkeyless with blacks incoming.

I really don't like the look of the steelseries 7g. Far too much plastic at the front for my tastes.


I liked them just fine. I recently switched to a tenkeyless board with browns and it's nice too.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Personally, I like the overall build of the SteelSeries boards; they are solid in that regard. Though I'm with you, the altered layout gets me.

Personally though; I've used, abused, and owned to many Mech Keyboards. Cherry, Deck, SteelSeries, Filco, ABS, Matias, iOne, Razer, Adesso, Rosewill, iRocks, & iOne/Xarmor.

So many boards, so much typing.

I need to get an Ergo board or a RealForce next. Both are ~$300 investments though.


elitekeyboards still has the Realforce 103U-UW for $215, so you don't need to spend $300. I wouldn't mind buying that but I just bought 2 keyboards and some speakers last week, so I'm broke for now


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gorb*


elitekeyboards still has the Realforce 103U-UW for $215, so you don't need to spend $300. I wouldn't mind buying that but I just bought 2 keyboards and some speakers last week, so I'm broke for now










I want the black one sadly


----------



## gorb

I think it looks great in white/grey, but it definitely looks nice in black too.

If they still have it for that price in a few months maybe I'll buy one then. I think I'm going to import one of these soon:

  Amazon.co.jpF FILCO Majestouch Wireless TenKeyPad BluetoothÆ'eÆ'â€œÆ'L[Æ'pÆ'bÆ'h â€œÃ†CherryMXâ€™Æ'Å½Â²Æ'XÆ'CÆ'bÆ'` Æ'uÆ'â€°Æ'bÆ'N FKBT22MB: Æ'pÆ'\Æ'RÆ'â€œEÅ½Ã¼•Ã"â€¹@Å*Ã*
or maybe the wired version. I dunno. I like having a tenkeyless board now but sometimes I miss the numpad D:


----------



## Tator Tot

Maybe you should get a RealForce num-pad to see if you like the Topre Switches?


----------



## gorb

Too expensive, I'd rather just buy a topre keyboard :O


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Well in some welcomed news, Post #7 of this thread has been updated with old keyboards no longer shown and readily available keyboards updated.


Some things I've noticed -

Could you use a picture of a Unicomp Spacesaver in black as the Unicomp picture? Using an old picture of a beige Customizer is a bit off-putting compared with the flattering pics of all the other stuff









Also, for the Cherry G80-3494, you might want to note that it's a bit flimsy... The current drawback of "None" makes it sound like some sort of uber board.

Under HHKB, it lists the drawback as "Altered Layout"... Isn't that kinda like the whole point of the keyboard?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Some things I've noticed -

Could you use a picture of a Unicomp Spacesaver in black as the Unicomp picture? Using an old picture of a beige Customizer is a bit off-putting compared with the flattering pics of all the other stuff









Also, for the Cherry G80-3494, you might want to note that it's a bit flimsy... The current drawback of "None" makes it sound like some sort of uber board.

Under HHKB, it lists the drawback as "Altered Layout"... Isn't that kinda like the whole point of the keyboard?


Flimsy seems like a "cheap" way to put it, possibly phrase that better to:
"Drawbacks: Less durable than other boards"
?

I'm changing the photo now.
EDIT: Picture updated, and the G80-3494's description as well.


----------



## ripster

Wow, the OP is changing after being moribund for six months? Awesome. I needed some competition so that I can improve my beginners guide.


----------



## krameriffic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boyboyd;12393742*
> What do you think of cherry black switches? I've got a filco tenkeyless with blacks incoming.
> 
> I really don't like the look of the steelseries 7g. Far too much plastic at the front for my tastes.


That huge armrest on the 7G is actually just a piece of plastic the board itself sits in, it's totally optional. It doesn't matter anyway because I think it's being phased out in favor of the 6Gv2 which is slightly cheaper.


----------



## Boyboyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krameriffic;12398180*
> That huge armrest on the 7G is actually just a piece of plastic the board itself sits in, it's totally optional. It doesn't matter anyway because I think it's being phased out in favor of the 6Gv2 which is slightly cheaper.


Oh right, never knew that. Damn...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boyboyd;12393742*
> What do you think of cherry black switches? I've got a filco tenkeyless with blacks incoming.
> 
> I really don't like the look of the steelseries 7g. Far too much plastic at the front for my tastes.


You mean no one in this thread told you that all that plastic is just a removable wrist rest, and that when it's removed it just leaves a keyboard that's the same size as a Filco Majestouch? And you mean no one in this thread told you that you could just get the 6Gv2?

I thought this thread was supposed to be helpful in this sense. What gives?


----------



## Boyboyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12398914*
> You mean no one in this thread told you that all that plastic is just a removable wrist rest, and that when it's removed it just leaves a keyboard that's the same size as a Filco Majestouch? And you mean no one in this thread told you that you could just get the 6Gv2?
> 
> I thought this thread was supposed to be helpful in this sense. What gives?


To be fair i never asked, lol.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12398914*
> I thought this thread was supposed to be helpful in this sense. What gives?


Thread bloat. Happens to the best of them.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boyboyd;12398969*
> To be fair i never asked, lol.


Well then let that be a lesson to ya.


----------



## Maytan

Leeeeeeeoooooopoooooolds.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Wow, the OP is changing after being moribund for six months? Awesome. I needed some competition so that I can improve my beginners guide.


Yeah, you do that, and our local potato will keep up.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


Leeeeeeeoooooopoooooolds.


Will be added once EK has them in stock.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Yeah, you do that, and our local potato will keep up.










I'll try at least.

Community feedback is the most important part.


----------



## Manyak

Well I've began rewriting and reorganizing everything. Every day I will update a bit more until it's done.

And thank you tator for taking care of the keyboards.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


Well I've began rewriting and reorganizing everything. Every day I will update a bit more until it's done.

And thank you tator for taking care of the keyboards.










No problem man









Let me know if you need anything


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12402247*
> Will be added once EK has them in stock


That's exactly my point. I'm losing my patience.


----------



## ch_123

Why do I get the feeling that these Leopolds are going to end up being a huge let down someway or another?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12409283*
> Why do I get the feeling that these Leopolds are going to end up being a huge let down someway or another?


Probably because people are expecting to much.
High expectations, normally leads to being let down.


----------



## Higgins

After seeing so many people talk about mechanical keyboards on here and my evolving hatred of rubber dome keyboards, i have a Das Ultimate Silent on the way.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12409356*
> Probably because people are expecting to much.
> High expectations, normally leads to being let down.


I think you're making an assumption here. I'm not expecting anything spectacular or incredible, I'm just sick of this decade old keyboard that I'm using until EK has Leopolds for me to order.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Higgins*


After seeing so many people talk about mechanical keyboards on here and my evolving hatred of rubber dome keyboards, i have a Das Ultimate Silent on the way.










Nice Choice









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I think you're making an assumption here. I'm not expecting anything spectacular or incredible, I'm just sick of this decade old keyboard that I'm using until EK has Leopolds for me to order.


Well... I'm just saying that people (by hype) are expecting them to be better than Filco's in build quality, and be cheaper.

I feel that in one regard or the other, they'll be let down.


----------



## ripster

Can't wait for the PS/2 versus USB part.

It's getting kinda crowded on my latest build for those vintage connectors.









USB 3.0 for MORE KEYBOARD POWAH!


----------



## Crazy9000

PS/2 is still better.


----------



## KipH

We all know from my completely made up evidence that Ripster was ritually abused by PS/2 cables. He now vents his evil spleen on innocent web forums and lego.

Le OP is just fine in what is says. USB is more convenient and offers up to 6+4kro. PS/2 can offer full nkro but is not hot swapable. Nothing there needs an update I think. Unless you want to add how some companies are working to get around the USB limits


----------



## murderbymodem

Does anybody know what the Leopolds will be priced around once EK gets them? I have a feeling I'm going to regret ordering my Noppoo Choc Mini once EK gets some tenkeyless Leopolds. They'll probably be priced better than what I paid through Obook, but I really didn't want to wait









Then again, I'm waiting anyway because this whole Obook process takes a long time...


----------



## gonX

I'm getting a Ducky with MX Browns soon. Any idea what to expect, coming from a Scorpius M10 (MX Blues)?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;12418149*
> I'm getting a Ducky with MX Browns soon. Any idea what to expect, coming from a Scorpius M10 (MX Blues)?


A completely different experience. Overall a better build quality.

The weight will be the first thing to notice as the Ducky weighs more I do believe. Though the external shell/casing is more rigid and feels more durable.


----------



## gonX

That's awesome. My Scorpius has been holding along really well though, considering I've been transporting it to and from work for the past 4-5 months







It still works fine, even though they keys don't feel the same across the board. Maybe I just need to clean up the stuff between the keys soon - I haven't done that in a while.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;12418235*
> That's awesome. My Scorpius has been holding along really well though, considering I've been transporting it to and from work for the past 4-5 months
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It still works fine, even though they keys don't feel the same across the board. Maybe I just need to clean up the stuff between the keys soon - I haven't done that in a while.


That's the folly of blues. They're very complicated, so unlike other switches, more used ones will feel different than less used one.

My M10 & MKB-135B are both used for typing mostly. So they feel pretty uniform. Though the Num-pad & F Keys have an obvious difference to them.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12418307*
> That's the folly of blues. They're very complicated, so unlike other switches, more used ones will feel different than less used one.
> 
> My M10 & MKB-135B are both used for typing mostly. So they feel pretty uniform. Though the Num-pad & F Keys have an obvious difference to them.


Whoa. For how long have you had the M10 and MKB-135B?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12418317*
> Whoa. For how long have you had the M10 and MKB-135B?


They are my loaner boards. I pass them around from person to person to show them what a modern mech board is like.
They don't like the look or size of the Unicomp Customizer 104 (black & grey) otherwise I would lend that out as well.

Either way; they easily have been through a year+ of use if not more. I'd have to check when I originally got them.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maytan;12411959*
> I think you're making an assumption here. I'm not expecting anything spectacular or incredible, I'm just sick of this decade old keyboard that I'm using until EK has Leopolds for me to order.


I'm using a two and half decade old keyboard, and I'm in no rush to replace it with the latest hip Korean/Taiwanese/Chinese Cherry keyboard.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12419174*
> I'm using a two and half decade old keyboard, and I'm in no rush to replace it with the latest hip Korean/Taiwanese/Chinese Cherry keyboard.


It's a decade-old domer that's been used for quite a long time. I assure you, if I were using the likes of Bucking Springs I'd be in no rush to replace it either; nor should I need to.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maytan;12420579*
> It's a decade-old domer that's been used for quite a long time. I assure you, if I were using the likes of Bucking Springs I'd be in no rush to replace it either; nor should I need to.


Get a Unicomp and enjoy a wonderful keyboard









Though seriously; waiting for new products does suck, I don't really feel that the wait for a Leopold is worth any more than just picking up a Das Keyboard or any other keyboard that is available with your switch preference.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12420662*
> Get a Unicomp and enjoy a wonderful keyboard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Though seriously; waiting for new products does suck, I don't really feel that the wait for a Leopold is worth any more than just picking up a Das Keyboard or any other keyboard that is available with your switch preference.


I had a Das, and I had quite a time with it. (like lmnop would be able to tell you) In the end, though, the glossy finish scratched really easily, I couldn't get the squeak out of the backspace key (even after two RMAs and three attempts at lubrication), and the lettering was sort of meh on the particular board I had. (it was much better on the one I had pre-RMA)

I had planned to replace it with a Filco, (no gloss!) but the Leopolds have two things I like: detachable USB cable and no more of those damned Costar stabilizers.

I REALLY want a Unicomp. ch123 had convinced me to pick one up awhile back; but soon after that I found myself typing around sleeping people quite often. That's really the only reason I haven't bought one; fear of waking people up with my typing.


----------



## gorb

I think people are overestimating how loud keyboards are


----------



## bloke226

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gorb;12420878*
> I think people are overestimating how loud keyboards are


This very much so.

I mean yes if I were in a library setting I would probably be asked to leave, but I don't wake up my girlfriend unless I am going at 90+ wpm and really hitting that space bar.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gorb;12420878*
> I think people are overestimating how loud keyboards are


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bloke226;12421291*
> This very much so.
> 
> I mean yes if I were in a library setting I would probably be asked to leave, but I don't wake up my girlfriend unless I am going at 90+ wpm and really hitting that space bar.


Ya' think so?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maytan*


I had a Das, and I had quite a time with it. (like lmnop would be able to tell you) In the end, though, the glossy finish scratched really easily, I couldn't get the squeak out of the backspace key (even after two RMAs and three attempts at lubrication), and the lettering was sort of meh on the particular board I had. (it was much better on the one I had pre-RMA)

I had planned to replace it with a Filco, (no gloss!) but the Leopolds have two things I like: detachable USB cable and no more of those damned Costar stabilizers.

I REALLY want a Unicomp. ch123 had convinced me to pick one up awhile back; but soon after that I found myself typing around sleeping people quite often. That's really the only reason I haven't bought one; fear of waking people up with my typing.


Was the Das you had Blue or Brown? In reality, while a buckling spring keyboard is louder than a blue Cherry in a sort of academic quantification kind of way, it's unlikely that someone who would not be woken by a Blue Cherry keyboard would be woken by a buckling spring keyboard.

Besides, there are all sorts of wonderful buckling spring mods involving dental floss and silicon grease


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12422083*
> Was the Das you had Blue or Brown? In reality, while a buckling spring keyboard is louder than a blue Cherry in a sort of academic quantification kind of way, it's unlikely that someone who would not be woken by a Blue Cherry keyboard would be woken by a buckling spring keyboard.
> 
> Besides, there are all sorts of wonderful buckling spring mods involving dental floss and silicon grease


Browns, actually. But, as I think I've said before, I HAVE used White Alps. I didn't find their clicking very loud. (not much louder than the clack of my Das' keycaps hitting their mounting plate.)

I mean, if you guys think I could get away with the noise without being too much of a nuisance, I'd probably jump right on it. Said person is a room over, if you're curious.

I still have my WL Grease, but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with going through the process of greasing up the springs. I've heard of the floss mod, but I never really looked into it. That could be interesting to try.


----------



## gorb

It really isn't that loud.


----------



## ch_123

It's not the springs that you grease, it's the inside of the stem on the keycap. The issue with the grease mod is that it's hard to get right, the grease affects the tactility as well as the noise, so if you load on the grease, you end up something that is almost linear in feel. Too little, and there's no difference in the sound. There's a sort of nice balance you can get with reduced sound and retaining most of the tactility. In fact, with a slightly greater amount of grease, you end up with something that sounds and feels like a brown Cherry board.

The floss mod involves stuffing the springs with a length of dental floss. As far as I know, it does not affect the tactility as much as the grease does, but I haven't tried this myself so I can't comment.

Interestingly enough, these mods were all invented by the companies who made buckling spring keyboards. Lexmark used grease in a particular version of the Model M (they greased the spring itself AFAIK) and Unicomp will apply grease if you cough up $40 more and waive your warranty. The floss was an adaptation of an AT&T patent (AT&T made their own buckling spring keyboards too) which concerned the use of foam inside the spring to silence the springs. It's unclear if they actually ever made any of those. Some of IBM's buckling spring-using typewriters had washers around the base of the key barrel to absorb the force and sound of bottoming out, which some people have also tried.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gorb;12422390*
> It really isn't that loud.


Looks like I might just be saving myself quite a lot of waiting, then.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12422412*
> It's not the springs that you grease, it's the inside of the stem on the keycap. The issue with the grease mod is that it's hard to get right, the grease affects the tactility as well as the noise, so if you load on the grease, you end up something that is almost linear in feel. Too little, and there's no difference in the sound. There's a sort of nice balance you can get with reduced sound and retaining most of the tactility. In fact, with a slightly greater amount of grease, you end up with something that sounds and feels like a brown Cherry board.


Ah, I see. That's definitely something I'm not cut-out for, then.








Quote:


> The floss mod involves stuffing the springs with a length of dental floss. As far as I know, it does not affect the tactility as much as the grease does, but I haven't tried this myself so I can't comment.


That seems easy and simple enough. Not really anything I can mess up. I am curious, now that you mention it, as to how that'd effect the tactility though.
Quote:


> Interestingly enough, these mods were all invented by the people who made buckling spring keyboards. Lexmark used grease in a particular version of the Model M (they greased the spring themselves though) and Unicomp will apply grease if you cough up $40 more and waive your warranty. The floss was an adaptation of an AT&T patent (AT&T made their own buckling spring keyboards too) which concerned the use of foam inside the spring to silence the springs. It's unclear if they actually ever made any of those. Some of IBM's typewriters had washers around the base of the key barrel to absorb the force and sound of bottoming out, which some people have also tried.


That's really interesting. To think there's so much backstory behind a single keyboard (or modification for that matter) is quite incredible.


----------



## ch_123

This guide should answer your questions.

The guy who wrote it is a dentist. I **** you not.


----------



## Maytan

Oh wow, that seems to work pretty nice; it's definitely something I could try out.

But you know, if Gorb is right, I might get away with it unsilenced, which would be ideal. (I personally do like the ping)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12422583*
> The guy who wrote it is a dentist. I **** you not.


Seriously? Haha, that made my day.


----------



## ch_123

It really depends on the condition of the board. When the plastic rivets pop and the springs wear (we're talking over the space of several years, not a few months like a Cherry) they started to get pingier. My SSK with the plastic rivets replaced with screws and bolts, and the springs replaced with new Unicomp ones isn't particularly loud.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


It really depends on the condition of the board. When the plastic rivets pop and the springs wear (we're talking over the space of several years, not a few months like a Cherry) they started to get pingier. My SSK with the plastic rivets replaced with screws and bolts, and the springs replaced with new Unicomp ones isn't particularly loud.


Ah, so the thing that starts to make them significantly louder is aging, basically.

That's fair enough, really. Replacing the springs seems easy enough, but is there a way to easily obtain those?

I remember talking about the bolt mod with you before. It's a nice thing to do, though I'd definitely want to practice before attempting it myself.


----------



## ch_123

Unicomp sells them - $25 for a new set. You replace them either by disassembling the keyboard, or my whittling down a chopstick to form a spring removal/inserter tool. It takes quite some time for the springs to wear down, and it also depends on how the keyboard is treated. The firmest Model M I've ever typed on is my 1985 one.


----------



## Maytan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Unicomp sells them - $25 for a new set. You replace them either by disassembling the keyboard, or my whittling down a chopstick to form a spring removal/inserter tool. It takes quite some time for the springs to wear down, and it also depends on how the keyboard is treated. The firmest Model M I've ever typed on is my 1985 one.


That's not a bad price at all. And of course, I don't plan to abuse the board or anything like that. Quite the contrary.

Thanks for all the information, I think I'll go order.


----------



## webwit




----------



## ripster

Robocop's keyboard.


----------



## ch_123

Hurr hurr rivets. In my day...


----------



## Maytan

I just have to know, what the dickens does Webwit do for a living?


----------



## ripster

Plugs *****.


----------



## Maytan

Looks like he's pretty good at his job.


----------



## webwit

I sell wooden shoes and tulips.


----------



## webwit

One day, you too, can afford a $25 bag of springs.


----------



## no1Joeno1

http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=197

Anyone know if that is mechanical and if so, what switch it has?

Thanks.


----------



## Rebelord

Sup guys. I see Ducky is selling keyboards now. Saw the Overclock.net edition ones. How would those compare to my ABS M1?


----------



## Crazy9000

For the people that might miss this announcement:

OCN keyboards

http://www.overclock.net/overclock-n...nded-line.html


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *no1Joeno1*


http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=197

Anyone know if that is mechanical and if so, what switch it has?

Thanks.


I believe it has black switches.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I believe it has black switches.


Is that based on something besides it saying linear? I'm inclined to think it's got scissors or just plain rubber domes from looking at it.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Is that based on something besides it saying linear? I'm inclined to think it's got scissors or just plain rubber domes from looking at it.


Scissor switches or rubber domes aren't linear action.

You should just email them. They'll reply.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *no1Joeno1;12425321*
> http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=197
> 
> Anyone know if that is mechanical and if so, what switch it has?
> 
> Thanks.


I do believe that's Cherry MX-Blacks; I can't confirm as they don't list a model number. Though they do say it has a linear action which would mean it's not MY/ML or Rubber Domes as those are all tactile.

It could be MX-Red switches as they are linear but I doubt that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rebelord;12425583*
> Sup guys. I see Ducky is selling keyboards now. Saw the Overclock.net edition ones. How would those compare to my ABS M1?


MUCH higher quality. Less noise from the keyboard itself do to the better build quality; they also come with media keys and different locking keys.


----------



## waar

sweet, ive been looking for some mx browns for gaming. looks like ducky x ocn it is

although this purchase will push back my cousin's rig a week or so.. oh well, he can wait


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12426228*
> I do believe that's Cherry MX-Blacks; I can't confirm as they don't list a model number. Though they do say it has a linear action which would mean it's not MY/ML or Rubber Domes as those are all tactile.


G84-4100LCMUS-2

All I can find are pages confirming mechanical and 50 million cycles, so must be blacks then.


----------



## Deathclaw

nice on adding overclock ducky keyboard to the first page so fast


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12426317*
> G84-4100LCMUS-2
> 
> All I can find are pages confirming mechanical and 50 million cycles, so must be blacks then.


If that's the model number listed, then yes it's a Mech, *Cherry ML-Black.
*
Linear + 50Mil Ops + Ultraslim was a dead giveaway. Model # just confirms it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deathclaw;12427365*
> nice on adding overclock ducky keyboard to the first page so fast


I plan to be as fast, if not faster with the EK Launch of Leopold keyboards.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

ML aren't linear and aren't rated for 50 million keystrokes.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;12429405*
> ML aren't linear and aren't rated for 50 million keystrokes.


You're right, I had that wrong.

But the Model Number is of a ML board.


----------



## TwoCables

ChiefValue is spelled wrong in the OP.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12429858*
> ChiefValue is spelled wrong in the OP.


Danke; fixing it right now.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12429873*
> Danke; fixing it right now.


You're the fastest potato product I've ever seen!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12429893*
> You're the fastest potato product I've ever seen!


I listen to member feedback, and I normally try to get everything done ASAP.

I have a LARGE pile of work. You can read the monitor guide linked in my sig to see my latest bit of work done.

I have more projects like that, along with a big write up on PSU's (terminology, design, and understanding.) With more work to be done in other sections as well.

AMD Editor may be the badge; but I'm currently working across many parts of the boards.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12429909*
> I listen to member feedback, and I normally try to get everything done ASAP.
> 
> I have a LARGE pile of work. You can read the monitor guide linked in my sig to see my latest bit of work done.
> 
> I have more projects like that, along with a big write up on PSU's (terminology, design, and understanding.) With more work to be done in other sections as well.
> 
> AMD Editor may be the badge; but I'm currently working across many parts of the boards.


Well, the potato is naturally versatile.


----------



## Crazy9000

If there's a member named Ketchup we should make him your assistant.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I do believe that's Cherry MX-Blacks; I can't confirm as they don't list a model number. Though they do say it has a linear action which would mean it's not MY/ML or Rubber Domes as those are all tactile.


MYs are linear only.


----------



## Toransu

Hey guys, I'm looking to upgrade from my Logitech G110. I thought that I could just settle for a BlackWidow, but now that OCN's got their Duckies out, I'm considering getting one with brown switches. Which of the two would you recommend?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


MYs are linear only.


My mistake; I haven't quiet memorized the whole MY/ML switches yet.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Toransu*


Hey guys, I'm looking to upgrade from my Logitech G110. I thought that I could just settle for a BlackWidow, but now that OCN's got their Duckies out, I'm considering getting one with brown switches. Which of the two would you recommend?


Ducky; much better build quality.

It also seems that Razer/iOne is having some quality check problems.


----------



## KipH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Toransu*


Hey guys, I'm looking to upgrade from my Logitech G110. I thought that I could just settle for a BlackWidow, but now that OCN's got their Duckies out, I'm considering getting one with brown switches. Which of the two would you recommend?


Duckies are by far my recommendation. I would have got one even before they got the OCN badge


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Toransu*


Hey guys, I'm looking to upgrade from my Logitech G110. I thought that I could just settle for a BlackWidow, but now that OCN's got their Duckies out, I'm considering getting one with brown switches. Which of the two would you recommend?


The Ducky, hands down.

If I weren't saving up for some new drums, then I'd order the Ducky with Cherry MX Blues right now and I already have a Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO.


----------



## Toransu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


The Ducky, hands down.

If I weren't saving up for some new drums, then I'd order the Ducky with Cherry MX Blues right now and I already have a Filco Majestouch Tactile Click NKRO.


Mind if I ask why blue over brown? I play a lot of different sorts of games, including fighters and beatgames, and I'd like it to be easy to double-tap on the keys...

Edit: BTW, good luck on those drums. I happen to like drumming out of all sorts of beatgames, and have tried playing real drums myself.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Toransu*


Mind if I ask why blue over brown? I play a lot of different sorts of games, including fighters and beatgames, and I'd like it to be easy to double-tap on the keys...

Edit: BTW, good luck on those drums. I happen to like drumming out of all sorts of beatgames, and have tried playing real drums myself.










You want the Browns.

With Blues in something like Step Mania, you'll run into trouble. Trust me; I've been there and done that.


----------



## Boyboyd

Sort-of wishing i'd gotten the full size filco so i could have it by now. Still an "end of feb" eta for my tenkeyless.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Toransu*


Mind if I ask why blue over brown? I play a lot of different sorts of games, including fighters and beatgames, and I'd like it to be easy to double-tap on the keys...

Edit: BTW, good luck on those drums. I happen to like drumming out of all sorts of beatgames, and have tried playing real drums myself.










The click.

There's something about the click that the Cherry MX Blues make that I enjoy very much.

But from what I heard, I would definitely want something like the Browns (or even the Blacks) if I were playing something like Step Mania.

Anyway, thank you for the well wishes! I've been playing the same cheap drums for almost 14 years now (but I think I've been playing for roughly 17 years), so it's a dream that's coming true to finally replace them with something better. My upgrade will be like upgrading from rubber domes to perhaps the iOne Scorpius M10 or something. But then I'll save up for 2-3 years and get some top-quality, high-end drums. So I'm just getting something to hold me over until then (finally).


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Browns are great, but that click.. oh so sexy. Browns get a bit boring after a while. Topre on the other hand, wow so much better than mx switches.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Anyway, thank you for the well wishes! I've been playing the same cheap drums for almost 14 years now (but I think I've been playing for roughly 17 years), so it's a dream that's coming true to finally replace them with something better. My upgrade will be like upgrading from rubber domes to perhaps the iOne Scorpius M10 or something. But then I'll save up for 2-3 years and get some top-quality, high-end drums. So I'm just getting something to hold me over until then (finally).










It's never the instrument, but the man who plays it. 
Trust me; I've got a cheap $200 Bass that's worn, dinged, scratched, beat up, and "fretless" by life. 
In my hands, it still makes a sound that $1000 Bass's could dream of.

OTH: If you do get used drums, I would suggest replacing the heads pretty quickly. Heads are like strings, you'll go through a million of them.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


It's never the instrument, but the man who plays it. 
Trust me; I've got a cheap $200 Bass that's worn, dinged, scratched, beat up, and "fretless" by life. 
In my hands, it still makes a sound that $1000 Bass's could dream of.

OTH: If you do get used drums, I would suggest replacing the heads pretty quickly. Heads are like strings, you'll go through a million of them.


hehe I've been playing for about 17 years, so I know.


----------



## Toransu

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


You want the Browns.

With Blues in something like Step Mania, you'll run into trouble. Trust me; I've been there and done that.


Yeah, saw that coming. Good thing I asked about it.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


Browns are great, but that click.. oh so sexy. Browns get a bit boring after a while. Topre on the other hand, wow so much better than mx switches.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


The click.

There's something about the click that the Cherry MX Blues make that I enjoy very much.

But from what I heard, I would definitely want something like the Browns (or even the Blacks) if I were playing something like Step Mania.


I'm actually thinking of taking it to the office every now and then. Their keyboards are bigger turds than my G110, by a LONGSHOT. I think my workmates would get annoyed by the clicking, though, so I figured a brown would help with that area.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Anyway, thank you for the well wishes! I've been playing the same cheap drums for almost 14 years now (but I think I've been playing for roughly 17 years), so it's a dream that's coming true to finally replace them with something better. My upgrade will be like upgrading from rubber domes to perhaps the iOne Scorpius M10 or something. But then I'll save up for 2-3 years and get some top-quality, high-end drums. So I'm just getting something to hold me over until then (finally).










No problem!








I actually kinda want a kit myself, but then I figure that I don't have much time to spend with one for now. I've just settled with casually playing drumming beatgames for now, but Rock Band's drumming sort of spoils me for Drummania/Percussion Freaks, where I think the latter's kit feels more realistic. I end up messing up A LOT in PF now. Ah well...
Keep Rockin'


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


hehe I've been playing for about 17 years, so I know.










Been playing almost as long as I've been alive
















I've been playing the same Bass for 8 years now; it's not once quit on me, and it keeps making the sounds I want.


----------



## soilentblue

still no word on the Leopolds through EK I assume?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soilentblue*


still no word on the Leopolds through EK I assume?


Sometime in February is the last word we got.

OCN Duckies are in stock though.


----------



## soilentblue

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Sometime in February is the last word we got.

OCN Duckies are in stock though.


already checked them out. looking for a tenkeyless and I'm curious about what EK will offer.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soilentblue*


already checked them out. looking for a tenkeyless and I'm curious about what EK will offer.


We're going to get tenkeyless boards in the next order.

Unfortunately Ducky was out of stock, and to get these out on time we had to have the order shipped without them.

Also, you can see pictures and details of the FC200R (Leopold's Tenkeyless) here
The features are pretty standard:

Tenkeyless
Detachable Cable
Logo is optional and delivered on a sticker
No LEDs on the case, instead (optional) in-key
N-Key Rollover
MX Brown, Blue, Black
Cherry Corp style high quality stabilizers


----------



## ripster

Nice link.

Unfortunately I don't read Korean and translation routines don't work on Jpegs.

Can someone at OCN translate please?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Nice link.

Unfortunately I don't read Korean and translation routines don't work on Jpegs.

Can someone at OCN translate please?


Obviously you haven't heard of OCR before.

Doesn't matter; I outlined the basic features of the Leopold FC200R, if you have any questions I'll try to do my best to answer them or find the answer.


----------



## ripster

I don't have a Korean OCR program. I'm American.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


I don't have a Korean OCR program. I'm American.


I suggest multilingual OCR programs that can translate for you.









If you have trouble with that, then ask a question, like I said I'll be happy to either answer it, or find the answer.


----------



## ripster

Hey, I just found out how to turn off the running Ducky at the top.

^
|
|

User CP>UserOptions>Edit Options>bottom of page "Turn off animated headers"


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Hey, I just found out how to turn off the running Ducky at the top.

^
|
|

User CP>UserOptions>Edit Options>bottom of page "Turn off animated headers"


Gold star.


----------



## i_ame_killer_2

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Hey, I just found out how to turn off the running Ducky at the top.

^
|
|

User CP>UserOptions>Edit Options>bottom of page "Turn off animated headers"


I think he is cute, lol.


----------



## Tator Tot

He earned


----------



## Boyboyd

Noscript

overclock.net/images/ducky.swf


----------



## soilentblue

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


We're going to get tenkeyless boards in the next order.

Unfortunately Ducky was out of stock, and to get these out on time we had to have the order shipped without them.

Also, you can see pictures and details of the FC200R (Leopold's Tenkeyless) here
The features are pretty standard:

Tenkeyless
Detachable Cable
Logo is optional and delivered on a sticker
No LEDs on the case, instead (optional) in-key
N-Key Rollover
MX Brown, Blue, Black
Cherry Corp style high quality stabilizers


Standard and exactly what I'm looking for. lol

What will the price of the tenkeyless be? $110 for a mechanical seems like a really good price. I really like everything about the leopold down to the minor details but if EK is selling the tenkeyless at $275 or some crazy price like that then it's not worth it to me.


----------



## Maytan

Haven't seen Ripster post Duckzilla since this Ducky-stuff started.

What's going on, brah?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soilentblue*


Standard and exactly what I'm looking for. lol

What will the price of the tenkeyless be? $110 for a mechanical seems like a really good price. I really like everything about the leopold down to the minor details but if EK is selling the tenkeyless at $275 or some crazy price like that then it's not worth it to me.


No official word on pricing is out yet. So I cannot tell you.


----------



## ripster

Filco will be available soon in the USA it looks like. New Distributor.

Makes sense. Big hole on the right.









Africa I'm not too worried about. Probably will have a keyboard line from China called "Ostrich" if the "Ducky" is successful.


----------



## no1Joeno1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


I believe it has black switches.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I do believe that's Cherry MX-Blacks; I can't confirm as they don't list a model number. Though they do say it has a linear action which would mean it's not MY/ML or Rubber Domes as those are all tactile.

It could be MX-Red switches as they are linear but I doubt that.

MUCH higher quality. Less noise from the keyboard itself do to the better build quality; they also come with media keys and different locking keys.


Thanks.

I think I might go with this http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=806 as it has N key rollover.

edit: Will this work on Linux?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *no1Joeno1*


Thanks.

I think I might go with this http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=806 as it has N key rollover.

edit: Will this work on Linux?


NKRO (When using PS/2) work on any OS.

Some of the USB methods may only work on Windows because of drivers used.

Though no matter the OS on an NKRO board you'll get NKRO with PS/2 and 6+4 Keys with USB.


----------



## nmatavka

I'm using Model M's at work and at home: all my programmers use Model M's on their terminals, and even the big IBM mainframe has a Model M attached for the benefit of the sys admin. The Model M's feel like heaven and sound like Serious Work is being done, although they do not offer eye candy, like the Razer Black Widow (which is great for the office, not so great for LAN parties!).

Recently I heard good things about the Topre series of keyboards. How do they compare in tactile feel, aesthetics, and sound to the Model M? If I love the feel of the Model M, how will I do with the Topre?


----------



## webwit

They are not alike in any way. But I like 'em both.


----------



## ripster

Model M is for serious work. Cherry MX is for springy fun. Topre is for a comfortable but boring experience.

IBM









Cherry Blues









Topres


----------



## Tator Tot

I find this to be the best post Ripster has made yet.


----------



## ripster

Aw shucks. I don't know about it being the best. But certainly better than any of Webwits.


----------



## webwit

Let me offer an alternative view.

IBM










Topre










Cherry MX Blue...


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nmatavka*


I'm using Model M's at work and at home: all my programmers use Model M's on their terminals, and even the big IBM mainframe has a Model M attached for the benefit of the sys admin. The Model M's feel like heaven and sound like Serious Work is being done, although they do not offer eye candy, like the Razer Black Widow (which is great for the office, not so great for LAN parties!).

Recently I heard good things about the Topre series of keyboards. How do they compare in tactile feel, aesthetics, and sound to the Model M? If I love the feel of the Model M, how will I do with the Topre?


As Webwit said, they're both good, but completely different. The Topre is soft, quiet and very smooth. They are nowhere near as tactile as a buckling spring keyboard, but offer a nice gentle typing experience.


----------



## rebelextrm02

When will the xarmor site come back online? It's still closed. Sigh. Getting people to take your money these days is so difficult.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

I'm also concerned when the new brown with macro keys will come out from there.


----------



## murderbymodem

I'm really enjoying these Cherry MX Black switches. They feel better than the switches in my previous boards, and are also much quieter.


----------



## rebelextrm02

http://www.xarmor-usa.com/

Getting closer. At least we have proof the U9BL-S I want is real! haha...


----------



## candy_van

Selling a Chery G80 11900 Compact, and need a little help guys (buyer questions).

1) Does this thing have 6-KRO (it's USB)? 
I jammed a bunch of keys down in notepad and don't think so...

2) Are the key caps etched or screened (or fingerpainted? lol I have no idea)?

I know it's kinda pathetic I don't know all about my own keyboard, but I didn't really use it that much


----------



## ripster

I'm a bit concerned about the Xarmor HTML choice of phrasing.

http://www.xarmor-usa.com/store_closed.html

Is the Web Designer trying to tell me something?

And yes, those basic questions are kinda pathetic. No and 95% chance of being lasered. Please consult the key pictures in the OP. Or wikis located at another website would tell you with 100% accuracy.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12504685*
> I'm a bit concerned about the Xarmor HTML choice of phrasing.
> 
> http://www.xarmor-usa.com/store_closed.html
> 
> Is the Web Designer trying to tell me something?


I don't think they're trying to imply they're closing shop. Though it baffles to me as why they would try to do a site redesign now with a new product in the water.

The old one wasn't designed bad so it seems pointless in my eyes.


----------



## ripster

Given I've never seen a serial number above #200 on an Xarmor maybe they are rethinking their USA launch?

Razer ships 200 Black Widows a day probably.

Ooops. No key pics in OP. Determining key technology is here. NKRO database is here.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12507709*
> Given I've never seen a serial number above #200 on an Xarmor maybe they are rethinking their USA launch?










How many people post their board's model numbers.

We don't know how many boards they sold; but they're just a retail branch of an OEM. So staying in business is not hard for them.


----------



## ripster

Even salesmen have to make their quotas or they are fired.

I wonder how the Ducky Sales office is doing? Feedback of 11 seems a bit underwhelming.

WWDDD!


----------



## Tator Tot

The Ebay seller is not associated with Ducky.

They are just someone buying keyboards from Ducky, and then reselling them.


----------



## ripster

No offense but I don't think the Ducky Sales Office info is all it's quacked up to be.

Address according to the Mother Ducky.
http://duckychannel.com.tw/en/contact.html

matches the Ebay address.
Quote:


> Shipping Address:
> 
> Please ship to this address regarding any returns, repairs, or exchanges.
> 
> Ducky Channel
> 
> Attn: Customer Service
> 
> 2350 S. Watney Way. Ste. H,
> 
> Fairfield, CA 94533
> 
> Contacts
> 
> If you have any questions, problems, or suggestions, please contact us at
> 
> Email: [email protected]


----------



## Tator Tot

From what I have been told by Ducky rep's is that they are not Ducky.

So that's all I can really say.


----------



## ripster

My motto is if it Quacks like a Ducky and Waddles like a Ducky it is a Ducky.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12508993*
> My motto is if it Quacks like a Ducky and Waddles like a Ducky it is a Ducky.


Then and iOne is an iOne no matter who sells it right?
It's usually never that simple.

Not that I doubt the keyboards they sell are Ducky keyboards; I just doubt the legitimacy of them being officially regulated with Ducky.

They are most likely someone who has decided to become a distributor.


----------



## ripster

As the coordinator of the OCN Ducky keyboard sales you may be a wee biased there.

Kind of like reading Keyboard Reviews from bloggers that receive free samples.

Sometimes Occam's Razor slices the ducky just right.


----------



## Tator Tot

I'm not the coordinator. I just help out.

I also do reviews in my free time; but a bad product is a bad product and I've never taken a bribe or sold my opinion for money.
Nor did I receive a free sample.

All I am saying is that Ducky says they are not officially affiliated with them.


----------



## bloke226

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12508993*
> My motto is if it Quacks like a Ducky and Waddles like a Ducky it is a Ducky.


I lol'd

Wonder how the OCN boards quack.


----------



## ripster

Oops. I may be wrong. Ships from Albany, CA (not too far away but different than Fairfield).

We have a Masked Creepy Ducky!









From the worst George Lucas movie ever (well, maybe the Phantom Menace)


----------



## webwit

Diatec announces Limited Edition Filcos (Cherry MX Red)


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *webwit;12524950*
> Diatec announces Limited Edition Filcos (Cherry MX Red)


Finally someone listens to me and makes RED wasd keys. I thought people were saying mx reds weren't that great though. Too light for gamers and no tactile feel for the typers.

February right EK... *looks at watch*. 25th EK, lemme guess, they're delayed until late march.


----------



## ch_123

Nonsense. Surely something so hyped, and with such an eye pleasing colour cannot disappoint?


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Nonsense. Surely something so hyped, and with such an eye pleasing colour cannot disappoint?


Oh yea those switches will look sooooooo nice sitting next to my rig. Oh wait...


----------



## Crazy9000

I am disappoint. Filco should have made the base of the keyboard red, or made all the keys red with black print.


----------



## ripster

I like the molded to your hand keypuller. Would go well with my other ones.









It's Fiberglass PCB WAR!


----------



## Tator Tot

I can say that the MX-Red's were linear switches.

There's not a whole lot to say beyond that. If you like your switches light and bouncy they'll work well for you. 
If not, you'll probably want to look elsewhere.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


No offense but I don't think the Ducky Sales Office info is all it's quacked up to be.

Address according to the Mother Ducky.
http://duckychannel.com.tw/en/contact.html

matches the Ebay address.


Interesting. Perhaps then, they've gained affiliation with them, as before they changed their name, they weren't actually connected to Ducky at all.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


Diatec announces Limited Edition Filcos (Cherry MX Red)


Can't see that staying in stock for long anywhere...


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Did Filco really need to include a picture explaining how through-hole soldering works? Why not show a diagram of how a screw works as well?


----------



## ripster

Looking for a Cherry Brown Filco with free shipping?

Here's your chance - Amazon Link.









Recommended seller as well but be aware Warranty Shipping to UK might be onerous.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Looking for a Cherry Brown Filco with free shipping?

Here's your chance - Amazon Link.









Recommended seller as well but be aware Warranty Shipping to UK might be onerous.


Oh, if only it had the Cherry MX Blues. I absolutely love the way that looks!!!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *TwoCables*   Oh, if only it had the Cherry MX Blues. I absolutely love the way that looks!!!  
Well    you may be in luck.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Well you may be in luck. 


Uh oh; and in debt. hehe









*Edit:* I can get it with free shipping! Hmm....


----------



## bloke226

If only it had a red body and tenkeyless.


----------



## TwoCables

Italian Red!

I would have the Italian Red version, but it was way too far out of my budget at the time.


----------



## Tator Tot

I own the Italian Red









Personally I like my black boards better; the IR is "semi-glossy", as in you can kinda see smudges on it.


----------



## ripster

Now that the OP is being reworked again it's OK to use my key pics but it would be nice to mention my name somewhere in the credits.

Glad you ditched the Foam Capacitive switch in the beginning - that one always cracked me up.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12556977*
> Now that the OP is being reworked again it's OK to use my key pics but it would be nice to mention my name somewhere in the credits.
> 
> Glad you ditched the Foam Capacitive switch in the beginning - that one always cracked me up.


I'm reworking the layout.

Post #10 will eventually be a credits section; ETA On that is later tonight. I was trying to get most of the main points updated so that I the information is relative.

I also added a new board to the mix, the ACK-6600C. Looks like a SteelSeries 7G with Cherry MX-Blues and none of the extra features.
Probably not a bad buy for $65


----------



## gonX

The iOne Scorpius is only 2-key rollover. Try right shift + O + L. The L won't register.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;12557837*
> The iOne Scorpius is only 2-key rollover. Try right shift + O + L. The L won't register.


Fixed it, thanks for letting me know


----------



## ch_123

It would be worth noting that the peak force on the tactile/clicky Cherry switches is 10g more than the actuation force. Because just about every other keyswitch is stiffest at the point of actuation, it makes comparing force requirements between different switches somewhat misleading. Somewhat.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12559477*
> It would be worth noting that the peak force on the tactile/clicky Cherry switches is 10g more than the actuation force. Because just about every other keyswitch is stiffest at the point of actuation, it makes comparing force requirements between different switches somewhat misleading. Somewhat.


I'll work that into the switch section then. Thanks









EDIT: Should be worked in now, let me know if the wording is bad.


----------



## ch_123

I think it would be more clear to just have something like this -
Quote:


> Actuation Force: 50g (Peak Force: 60g, Force Diagram)


Leave in the note below for clarification though.
Quote:


> As a note: this switch actually has a peak force of 65G, it is 55G at the point of actuation. This is due to the design of the Cherry switch itself.


Hate to be anal, but grams are always a lower case g. Technically, force should be measured in cN (centinewtons) but that's a story for another night


----------



## Tator Tot

I see what you're saying. I'll get to changing that. Thanks again








EDIT: I will leave grams though; more people understand 55g then 55cN


----------



## ch_123

Yeah, the cN thing is perhaps too much for what is an introductory guide. Nonetheless, many of the official force figures, particularly from US and Japanese manufacturers use grams. It's only Cherry AFAIK that realizes that force is.... force, and not mass.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*











I see what you're saying. I'll get to changing that. Thanks again








EDIT: I will leave grams though; more people understand 55g then 55cN


I would like to see you include "cN" and use the guide to teach its readers what it is in as well as how it compares to Grams (or perhaps why we think using Grams is easier to understand).


----------



## ch_123

Another thing, it's worth mentioning the Complicated Black Alps switches. Dell ATs are very common in charity/old computer stores, and easy to find if you're into dumpster diving. Last month, I found about 3 of them being dumped from my college. The current Black Alps section is sufficient, it just needs to be made more generalized.

Also, is that picture for the White Alps definitely some sort of White Alps switch or clone? Looks like something else to me.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Yeah, the cN thing is perhaps too much for what is an introductory guide. Nonetheless, many of the official force figures, particularly from US and Japanese manufacturers use grams. It's only Cherry AFAIK that realizes that force is.... force, and not mass.











Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I would like to see you include "cN" and use the guide to teach its readers what it is in as well as how it compares to Grams (or perhaps why we think using Grams is easier to understand).


I think I'll add an introductory portion to the guide

Here's what I'm thinking (forgive as it's just off the top of my head):

Quote:



Introduction - A Switch is not just a switch


> Many users ask for recommendations about switches while they do not fully understand what they are looking for, but only with an idea of what their needs are. This is not always bad as most mechanical switches will always feel nicer than rubber domes.
> It is important though; a switch is not just a switch, it is the heart of what makes your keyboard have it's feel. Switches are generally rated by force using the measurements of Grams (g) though force is more accurately described with Centinewtons (cN.) Values in this switch over view are described in cN. Though both values are interchangeable in this instance. So a 55g Switch would be the same as saying it was a 55cN Switch.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Another thing, it's worth mentioning the Complicated Black Alps switches. Dell ATs are very common in charity/old computer stores, and easy to find if you're into dumpster diving. Last month, I found about 3 of them being dumped from my college. The current Black Alps section is sufficient, it just needs to be made more generalized.

Also, is that picture for the White Alps definitely some sort of White Alps switch or clone? Looks like something else to me.


Do you have a better picture for the white alps to use?

That's the best I could find for simplified ones.


----------



## ch_123

http://elitekeyboards.com/press/***ka640.jpg

Courtesy of EliteKeyboards. That's a ***ka, but it looks pretty much identical to an XM and the real deal (minus the ALPS branding)


----------



## ripster

Newton would be proud of all this cn discussion. He rolls over in his grave every time I drag out the nickels.










Reminds me, I need to get 5 empty wrappers and confirm they wear 3 gms. No way am I emptying those. It is a valuable investment that increased in value the day I walked out the bank.


----------



## Tator Tot

Thanks, what did you think about that switch introduction?


----------



## ch_123

It's a good introduction to the most common designs on the market. There's a danger of information overload which you avoid.

You might want to link to the Deskthority wiki in your list of keyboard resources down bottom. It's very much work-in-progress at the moment, but it does have awesome articles on IBM's keyswitches *coughsshamelessselfendorsementcoughs*


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12561056*
> It's a good introduction to the most common designs on the market.
> 
> You might want to link to the Deskthority wiki in your list of keyboard resources down bottom. It's very much work-in-progress at the moment, but it does have awesome articles on IBM's keyswitches *coughsshamelessselfendorsementcoughs*


The last two posts (Credits & Resources) are not finished yet.
I'm going to be reworking them as fast as possible.

I'll definitely consider throwing it up for some of Webwit's reviews and such.


----------



## Tator Tot

In other news, thanks to Desk Authority; I found out that my Guitar Hero controllers use XM White Alps.

I just took apart my Les Paul, SG, & X-Plorer to confirm, all of them have two of the switches. 
Pretty neat stuff.


----------



## ch_123

They should have done what Sega did, and get IBM to make them a buckling spring keyboard.


----------



## Tator Tot

I forgot to say, but my OCN Keycap fit on it too.









Also, I think Buckling Springs would have been a bit more expensive and be kinda loud, click wise.


----------



## ch_123

They're not suitable by virtue of not being individual switches.

Your keycap would fit on that Sega keyboard too... It used Alps buckling springs, which had a slider with a standard Alps keycap slot on it.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


They're not suitable by virtue of not being individual switches.

Your keycap would fit on that Sega keyboard too... It used Alps buckling springs, which had a slider with a standard Alps keycap slot on it.


If I didn't have a plethora of other boards (some of which I need to sell or find a home for) I would look into getting one.

Though I bet they are hard to find?

How are the Alps BS compared to the IBM BS's?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


If I didn't have a plethora of other boards (some of which I need to sell or find a home for) I would look into getting one.

Though I bet they are hard to find?

How are the Alps BS compared to the IBM BS's?


You'd have to find one separate from the system. Whole thing is here: http://cgi.ebay.com/Sega-TeraDrive-M...item2eb33678a8


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


You'd have to find one separate from the system. Whole thing is here: http://cgi.ebay.com/Sega-TeraDrive-M...item2eb33678a8


Yeah I figured it would be like that


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12563563*
> Though I bet they are hard to find?


Very. And they are only available in Japanese layout.
Quote:


> How are the Alps BS compared to the IBM BS's?


Inferior.


----------



## Sainesk

whered the rest of the red switch description go?









"This switch is hard to find; and was " arrrgghh cliffhanger...


----------



## runeazn

oh btw the red switches are now not hard to find sicne they will be available in the normal catalogusses so like the blues and browns but they will be more expensive.

als note filco has a red cherry switch board with
1 order limited per household with a limit of 3 items a order
http://www.diatec.co.jp/en/det.php?prod_c=746


----------



## Tator Tot

So Razer's stocking a new board. Black Widow Ultimate Dragon Age II Special Edition










Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sainesk;12569357*
> whered the rest of the red switch description go?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "This switch is hard to find; and was " arrrgghh cliffhanger...


I fixed that, not sure how it got cut off.


----------



## ch_123

Dear God, my eyes...










Ah, that's better


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Bah. All I've got is this...


----------



## ch_123

I wish I owned all of those. That's (part of) Webwit's collection.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12571002*
> I wish I owned all of those. That's (part of) Webwit's collection.


I'd take the black one, then get rid of it's trackpoint. I hate those blasted things.

Also, Chimp's the devil as I have yet to get my board.
FedEx = Slowbro.jpg


----------



## Higgins

I want to thank everyone in this thread. I had debated getting a mechanical keyboard for the longest time, but i have never loved typing as much as i do on my Das.









My friends think it looks cool (with no lettering and green WASD keys) but i don't think they get the point of the mechanical switches. Don't really care though because my fingers have never been happier.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I'd take the black one, then get rid of it's trackpoint. I hate those blasted things.


I have one of them, one of my favorites, almost entirely because of the fact that it has a trackpoint :3










Unicomp made Customizers with black keys, but they were discontinued because the pad printing process that was used on them failed miserably. They reverted to grey keys which they could dye sub. The picture of my M13 is rather flattering, the keycaps look ****e in person/


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12560558*
> I think I'll add an introductory portion to the guide
> 
> Here's what I'm thinking (forgive as it's just off the top of my head):
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Introduction - A Switch is not just a switch
> 
> Many users ask for recommendations about switches while they do not fully understand what they are looking for, but only with an idea of what their needs are. This is not always bad as most mechanical switches will always feel nicer than rubber domes.
> 
> It is important though; a switch is not just a switch, it is the heart of what makes your keyboard have it's feel. Switches are generally rated by force using the measurements of Grams (g) though force is more accurately described with Centinewtons (cN.) Values in this switch over view are described in cN. Though both values are interchangeable in this instance. So a 55g Switch would be the same as saying it was a 55cN Switch.
Click to expand...

It's very good, but I'd like to offer my services as an editor. Check this out (changes are in red, and I used bold because I feel it's easier on the eyes when using red text):

*Introduction - A Switch is Not* *"Just a Switch**"* (I like to use bold for titles)

Many *people* ask for recommendations about switches *without knowing exactly* what they are looking for, but instead only with an idea of what their needs are. *Fortunately, t*his is not always *a* *problem* *because* most mechanical switches will always feel nicer than rubber domes. *However, the final choice is very important because* a switch is not just a switch*;* it is the heart of what makes your keyboard have *its* feel.

Switches are generally rated by force using the *weight* *measurement* of Grams (g)*.* *Although* force is more accurately described *using* Centinewtons *(cN)*, *so v*alues in this switch *overview* are described in cN. *However,* *1g of weight applies about 1cN of downward force**, s*o *we can use "55g" when describing a 55cN-rated switch because that is sometimes easier to understand.*

I would also try to add something that explains how Grams is a measurement of weight, and so when saying that the Cherry MX Blues have a peak force of 60g, it means that it takes the weight of approximately 60 grams to press the switch down past the tactile "bump". Of course, it also needs to be explained that 1g of weight is approximately the same as 1cN of force. I think that there might even be some people who may enjoy understanding that one reason why we feel that these two units of measurement are interchangeable is because some people find it easier to understand Grams because we're more familiar with how different weights feel as opposed to different measurements of force. Plus, we're talking about a downward force here. Unlike Grams, Centinewtons doesn't rely on gravity.

And so due to using cN to describe a _downward_ force, and since 1g applies about 1cN of downward force, we have the luxury of being able to use either unit of measurement. But of course, a true scientist would have a conniption over this!

It should also be clarified that the point at which the Cherry MX Blues actually sends the keystroke signal is at 50cN of force (or with 50g of weight on the switch).







But I'm just offering a different way to describe it, so I'm splitting hairs now.

Anyway, I guess it's probably obvious by now that I would love to be your editor. As you may have noticed, I enjoy maximizing the readability of anything (I've been told that I would be a very good tech writer). Plus, I have Microsoft Word which actually does an excellent job of catching all errors in both grammar and style in order to help arrive at the absolute best readability. However, I won't start analyzing the rest of the guide unless you ask me to.


----------



## Crazy9000

I would leave out Cn entirely. Grams get the point across, and Cn just confuses people. All the guide should really do is provide a very rough estimate for people who much force each of the switches take to press.

Going into how grams are a measurement of weight and stuff like that would really be completely off-topic to this guide, which is more geared towards people who haven't used a mechanical at all before.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12571600*
> I would leave out Cn entirely. Grams get the point across, and Cn just confuses people. All the guide should really do is provide a very rough estimate for people who much force each of the switches take to press.
> 
> Going into how grams are a measurement of weight and stuff like that would really be completely off-topic to this guide, which is more geared towards people who haven't used a mechanical at all before.


But knowing this gave me a much better understanding of how much force was required to press each of the switches back when I was shopping for my first (and only) mechanical keyboard.

At that time, I was confused about why the guide was using grams when the official documentations use Centinewtons. But once I learned that 1g of weight applies about 1cN of downward force, I instantly understood things on a much deeper level that made it significantly easier for me to choose a switch.


----------



## Crazy9000

My argument is most people don't know or care about what a Cn is







. I don't ever see Cn mentioned on a keyboards spec sheet really, they usually refer to it in grams.

Most people will not get confused because they will never naturally come across the term "Centinewtons" in their search for a keyboard. In fact, adding that term in when nobody else is using it will only confuse people.


----------



## runeazn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *runeazn;12569379*
> oh btw the red switches are now not hard to find sicne they will be available in the normal catalogusses so like the blues and browns but they will be more expensive.
> 
> als note filco has a red cherry switch board with
> 1 order limited per household with a limit of 3 items a order
> http://www.diatec.co.jp/en/det.php?prod_c=746


i need to quote myself for this awesomeness?
_filco red chery guys!!_


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12571600*
> I would leave out Cn entirely. Grams get the point across, and Cn just confuses people. All the guide should really do is provide a very rough estimate for people who much force each of the switches take to press.
> 
> Going into how grams are a measurement of weight and stuff like that would really be completely off-topic to this guide, which is more geared towards people who haven't used a mechanical at all before.


I'm going to agree here. Grams are a far more intuitive unit to use, even if it isn't the official unit of force.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12571675*
> My argument is most people don't know or care about what a Cn is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I don't ever see Cn mentioned on a keyboards spec sheet really, they usually refer to it in grams.
> 
> Most people will not get confused because they will never naturally come across the term "Centinewtons" in their search for a keyboard. In fact, adding that term in when nobody else is using it will only confuse people.


Cherry's specs refer to cN. A lot of keyswitch designs were made back in the days when kilogram-force was a commonly used unit of force measurement, which explains why you don't see it a lot elsewhere. I think Topre uses grams though.


----------



## ripster

I couldn't give a nickel about centi-newtons.

I could give 5g or 4.903325cn at sea level earth. In Holland it's even closer to 5.


----------



## runeazn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12571759*
> I couldn't give a nickel about centi-newtons.
> 
> I could give 5g or 4.903325cn at sea level earth. In Holland it's even closer to 5.
> http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5171/5416803582_79abd11ef4_z.jpg


hehe


----------



## Tator Tot

@TwoCables,
I'll take it into considering and have another draft up soon. I'll post when I made the changes.

@Runazn,
Cherry Reds are rare, but not that good. They are light, linear switches. Nothing exciting about them.

@Ripster, is that the official RipOmeter?


----------



## ripster

I've got two of them.

Pretty accurate I'd say.


----------



## webwit

grams vs cN is not really important. Especially if you use an inherently flawed measurement system like coins.

Here is why it is broken by design:

Keyboard 1 activates at 55g
Keyboard 2 activates at 59.9g
Keyboard 3 activates at 60.0g

According to the ripometer, keyboard 1 equals keyboard 2, and keyboard 3 requires more force. False.

If you factor in stuff like not perfectly balanced coins or coins not exactly weighing 5g, together with not measuring various keys and taking an average (a 5g variation is common), the insignificance of this method is 2 to 3 coins, which is not acceptable, and makes it a futile exercise. You might as well compare boards by hand and make an estimation. It's about as accurate, and at least does not advertise a false sense of accuracy.


----------



## ripster

Chuck Norris doesn't worry about such distinctions. He just crushes the keyboard.


----------



## ch_123

Whatever happened to that part of the guide that explained ghosting and blocking with the animated diagrams?


----------



## ripster

Ugh. That section gave me epileptic seizures. No loss.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12575215*
> Whatever happened to that part of the guide that explained ghosting and blocking with the animated diagrams?


Down at the bottom hidden in spoiler tags.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12575808*
> Down at the bottom hidden in spoiler tags.


You can change that text from "Hidden Text Below!" to be anything you want. Plus, you can make it so that the hidden text isn't directly beneath that title, but instead separated by a hard return.

Check it out:


Spoiler: Test with no hard return



Take notice of how this text has no space above it





Spoiler: Test with a hard return



But this text does have one. It's great for large walls of text.











Here's how I did it:



Spoiler: Test with no hard return



Take notice of how this text has no space above it





Spoiler: Test with a hard return



But this text does have one. It's great for large walls of text.


----------



## Tator Tot

Yeah I know that.

You can't code in BB code to make the title stand out though.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12575949*
> Yeah I know that.
> 
> You can't code in BB code to make the title stand out though.


I know. But why not customize it at least?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12575995*
> I know. But why not customize it at least?


Because there wasn't really a point.

I could always change it to "IputWordsHereCauseTwoCablesSaidSo"


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12576072*
> Because there wasn't really a point.
> 
> I could always change it to "IputWordsHereCauseTwoCablesSaidSo"


Well, you could at least include a hard return.







It would be prettier.


----------



## Crazy9000

I think it needs a kitten with a rainbow to stand out.


----------



## Lettuceman

Are mechanical keyboards viable for a dorm room setting?
Would blues be too loud?


----------



## Crazy9000

Depends on how hard you pound on the keys I guess







. Also depends on the layout of the dorm. If you're talking about using the PC at a desk in the same small room as bunkbeds, probably not. If you have a living room or kitchen type place with your PC, then it would be fine.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lettuceman;12589794*
> Are mechanical keyboards viable for a dorm room setting?
> Would blues be too loud?


You'd want to look at something like Browns or Clears if you want a typing switch that's going to be quieter.

Honestly, it depends on the person on how sensitive they are to sound; but they're not as bad as some claim.


----------



## Lettuceman

Aight, then thats probably a no








Yep, a normal dorm room on campus. Small one room thing.

You see, I was considering getting the Normal Razer Blackwidow cause its not that expensive compared to other mechanicals, but having blues on em I guess won't work out.
Guess I must get a good rubberdome then.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lettuceman;12589794*
> Are mechanical keyboards viable for a dorm room setting?
> Would blues be too loud?


I think that there are too many variables to provide a definitive answer (room acoustics throughout the dorm, dorm layout, where the computer is, when you normally use it, etc).

But the mechanical click that a Cherry MX Blue switch produces is a little quieter than the sound of bottoming out the keycap (like when hitting the key as opposed to just pressing it). The mechanical click of a single Cherry MX Blue switch is very similar to the click that a retractable pen makes; only the click of a retractable pen is about twice as loud as one single click of a Cherry MX Blue switch.

In other words, I doubt that the overall decibel level would be any louder than the Logitech G11 under normal use - especially when gaming. I mean, I upgraded from the Razer Lycosa to the Filco Majestouch Tactile Click which has the Cherry MX Blues, and the Lycosa wasn't much quieter when gaming. But when I wanted to be very quiet, I could do that with the Lycosa by typing slower and more carefully ( it was difficult to make silent key presses while gaming). But with the Blues, I still get the click which means I can't exactly be silent. This means that if someone were trying to fall asleep in the same room that my computer is in, then I'd be screwed until they fell asleep (especially if they weren't a really light sleeper).

So depending on the variables, the Blues could either be too loud for you, or they could be no big deal at all. I mean, if it's just one room with no separated bedrooms (like, you walk in and you see 2 beds in a room, and the only separate room is the bathroom), then you might be screwed. If it is, then the Cherry MX Browns would be about the perfect choice in such a situation.


----------



## Lettuceman

Yea I would have to get MX browns, the problem is all the keyboards with them in are all over $100, and I just can't spend that money.

The reason I brought up the blues were because of the Black Widow, but eh I'll get a mech board eventually


----------



## IEATFISH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lettuceman;12590844*
> Yea I would have to get MX browns, the problem is all the keyboards with them in are all over $100, and I just can't spend that money.
> 
> The reason I brought up the blues were because of the Black Widow, but eh I'll get a mech board eventually


If you don't mind losing the numpad, the new keyboards up at elitekeyboards.com are at a great price, though still flirting with the $100 limit (and add shipping).

http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold

edit: Also, I just went from blues to browns and they are definitely quieter. The click from a blue might not be as loud as bottoming out, but it is more more distinct and noticeable.


----------



## ripster

$99!


----------



## bloke226

I use my Filco Blues at work and as of 3 weeks ago my building had a flood and we moved up the street into our other building. I'm in an executive conference room with 2 of my other coworkers. Yes they can hear the clicks, but it doesn't annoy them at all.

I mean people comment on the clicks, but I don't think its to the point where they have to take a gun to me and ask for me to pack it up and use a rubber dome lol...I think TwoCables brought up a good point about gaming. When I game on blues I think it's a little louder since I tend to bottom out the keys more so than I type.

Let's put it this way, if you're going to be in a dorm, there will be other things hat will keep other people up, like music and screaming kids lol, whats so bad about a keyboard?


----------



## ch_123

The cool kids may look at you funny.


----------



## helius

I've been planning to get the Razer Blackwidow. What would you suggest as a gaming keyboard for me? (I press hard during gaming; I would like tactile and clicky feedback but not necessary if there's a good reason)


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *helius;12596431*
> I've been planning to get the Razer Blackwidow. What would you suggest as a gaming keyboard for me? (I press hard during gaming; I would like tactile and clicky feedback but not necessary if there's a good reason)


If you want a tactile and clicky keyboard, and have a heavy Keypress, any of the Unicomp Customizer 104 keyboards would be best.

The build quality far outstretches that of Razer/iOne's. For that matter, the switches themselves are much nicer as well.

Though; gaming keyboard wise, with mech; there are plenty of options. The Zowie Celeritas, which uses Cherry MX-Brown switches. They are light and tactile.

There's also my personal favorite "daily driver" the Deck Legend Frost Tactile.
The switches on this keyboard are Cherry MX-Clears, they are stiffer than browns with a more pronounced tactile feel. I find them the best out of the cherry switches (though it's all personal taste.)

Deck & Unicomp keyboards may be some of the more basic ones available, but their build quality far exceeds that of most other keyboards on the market (besides some like old IBM Model M's, which Unicomp's are reissues of.)

Tactile & Clicky switches = Go for the Unicomp though. It's cheap, has the best switches for that category, and is built like a tank.


----------



## ch_123

From the guide -
Quote:


> While Simplified Alps are more common switches in current times, they are also one of the more "low quality" switches available. The mechanism that actuates the switch can be clogged by dirt and cause malfunctions.


At least some of that could also be said of Blue Cherry switches


----------



## bloke226

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *helius;12596431*
> I've been planning to get the Razer Blackwidow. What would you suggest as a gaming keyboard for me? (I press hard during gaming; I would like tactile and clicky feedback but not necessary if there's a good reason)


I'd get a Filco Tenkeyless in blues then. Ergonomically better since your left and right hand are close together and you will get the tactile and clicky feedback you want. If you don't want to do blues go for something else like browns.

If you don't want to go through the trouble getting Filco, get another tenkeyless board. I don't think you'd be disappointed.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bloke226;12593972*
> I use my Filco Blues at work and as of 3 weeks ago my building had a flood and we moved up the street into our other building. I'm in an executive conference room with 2 of my other coworkers. Yes they can hear the clicks, but it doesn't annoy them at all.
> 
> I mean people comment on the clicks, but I don't think its to the point where they have to take a gun to me and ask for me to pack it up and use a rubber dome lol...I think TwoCables brought up a good point about gaming. When I game on blues I think it's a little louder since I tend to bottom out the keys more so than I type.
> 
> Let's put it this way, if you're going to be in a dorm, there will be other things hat will keep other people up, like music and screaming kids lol, whats so bad about a keyboard?


Well, bottoming out is going to produce the same sound regardless of the switch type; except, of course, a non-clicky keyboard just won't have the added click to the that sound of bottoming out.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12596865*
> From the guide -
> 
> At least some of that could also be said of Blue Cherry switches


I'm glad you pointed this out because I've been wondering what caused me to become very OCD about keeping my keyboard as clean as the day I bought it. I mean, I vacuum it every day, sometimes more than once per day. I also do weird things to avoid getting dust and debris on the keyboard. So, I've been trying to remember what caused me to be like this, and now I know.

But it must be working because it still feels and sounds the same as it did when I unboxed it.


----------



## ch_123

Meanwhile, my ~26 year old Model F gets plenty of abuse, and yet still is better than any Cherry switch keyboard evar.

Received a loan of a KBC Poker from Webwit for testing purposes. My thoughts coming soon.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12606651*
> Meanwhile, my ~26 year old Model F gets plenty of abuse, and yet still is better than any Cherry switch keyboard evar.
> 
> Received a loan of a KBC Poker from Webwit for testing purposes. My thoughts coming soon.


While I've yet to try a Model F; I can say that I like my MX-Clears more than Buckling Springs for overall use.

The BS's are nice for typing, but clears are much better for a general sense.


----------



## murderbymodem

So, I went and "liked" Das keyboard on Facebook today, due to them being pretty involved in sponsoring e-sports and LAN parties. From their facebook I went to their blog, which had a post linking to this article on CNET, which *gasp* links to this guide here on OCN









Not sure if you guys know or not


----------



## IEATFISH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


So, I went and "liked" Das keyboard on Facebook today, due to them being pretty involved in sponsoring e-sports and LAN parties. From their facebook I went to their blog, which had a post linking to this article on CNET, which *gasp* links to this guide here on OCN









Not sure if you guys know or not










That's sure a nice link! Sure nice of them ... and Manyak for the guide.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


While I've yet to try a Model F; I can say that I like my MX-Clears more than Buckling Springs for overall use.

The BS's are nice for typing, but clears are much better for a general sense.


It's lighter (60-65g vs 65-70g), smoother and more tactile than the Model M's buckling spring mechanism. It's also capacitive, which means NKRO and virtual indestructibility.

The Model Fs themselves are also built like tanks. They make the Ms feel like toys. Unfortunately, the only readily PC-compatible one has a rather odd layout.

Haven't tried Clears, I'm not sure if I'd like them from what I hear. I'm playing around with a Black switch KBC Poker, and they're surprisingly pleasant to type on, despite the reputation they have.


----------



## JacobKay97

I'm debating between the Razer Black Widow Ultimate and the Steelseries 7G.

I'll be doing an equal amount of typing and gaming.
I can get both for about the same price.
I have never used a mechanical keyboard.

Thanks for your help


----------



## ch_123

Out of curiosity, how much are you getting them for? The BW seems to have some QA issues, and I hear of people with dead Steelseries 6/7s every now and then.


----------



## JacobKay97

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Out of curiosity, how much are you getting them for? The BW seems to have some QA issues, and I hear of people with dead Steelseries 6/7s every now and then.


around about Â£110


----------



## ch_123

At that price, you'd be much better off coughing up a little bit extra and getting a Filco from Keyboard Co


----------



## JacobKay97

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


At that price, you'd be much better off coughing up a little bit extra and getting a Filco from Keyboard Co


which one? (I'm a noob at this :/ )
And I would prefer the UK layout


----------



## ch_123

I thought I linked to the UK layout ones? (They should be there on the site anyway)

As for which ones you want - do you want a clicky or non-clicky keyboard?


----------



## JacobKay97

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


I thought I linked to the UK layout ones? (They should be there on the site anyway)

As for which ones you want - do you want a clicky or non-clicky keyboard?


Just realised there are more pages XD.

I don't really know if I want clicky or non-clicky ones. I know I'll have my time split about half for gaming and typing, but in holidays, mainly gaming. 
I know that the brown switches are best for gaming and typing.


----------



## ch_123

Yeah, the Brown ones are probably the safe choice.

Here is the fullsize brown one.

Not sure why it says click action... I must ask the guy who runs that site about it.


----------



## thiru

I wouldn't get the French layout though.


----------



## JacobKay97

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Yeah, the Brown ones are probably the safe choice.

Here is the fullsize brown one.

Not sure why it says click action... I must ask the guy who runs that site about it.


http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_d...sp?PRODUCT=646
Thats the UK layout one. So you would recommend that over a 7G?
It has NKR if I use the PS2 adapter, right?

Thanks for all your help


----------



## ch_123

Yeah, the Filcos have a solid reputation, they're usually a safe bet even if they are a bit more expensive that some other mech keyboards. I also have high recommendations for Keyboard Co, their service is great, and they really know their stuff.

The Steelseries keyboards use black switches. They're good switches, but they're something of an acquired taste given that they are non-tactile and stiff. I would be somewhat cautious recommending them to someone looking for a good all-rounder keyboard.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12613564*
> I wouldn't get the French layout though.


Whoops, wrong link


----------



## helius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bloke226;12597502*
> I'd get a Filco Tenkeyless in blues then. Ergonomically better since your left and right hand are close together and you will get the tactile and clicky feedback you want. If you don't want to do blues go for something else like browns.
> 
> If you don't want to go through the trouble getting Filco, get another tenkeyless board. I don't think you'd be disappointed.


Yeah I was looking at that as well. Unicomp's looks aren't that good and I don't like the Zowie keyboard. This one looks really nice. I will try and get this one, thanks all for the suggestions.


----------



## JacobKay97

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12613698*
> Yeah, the Filcos have a solid reputation, they're usually a safe bet even if they are a bit more expensive that some other mech keyboards. I also have high recommendations for Keyboard Co, their service is great, and they really know their stuff.
> 
> The Steelseries keyboards use black switches. They're good switches, but they're something of an acquired taste given that they are non-tactile and stiff. I would be somewhat cautious recommending them to someone looking for a good all-rounder keyboard.


Thanks Mate.

I'll be ordering that on Monday/Tuesday along with the rest of my first build.

So if I connect it using PS2, I can press as many keys as I want at the same time and they will all be registered?


----------



## helius

Are there any reviews for the Filco Tenkeyless with MX Cherry Blue switches?


----------



## ch_123

There should be one on Geekhack.

I used to have one, it was a great keyboard.
Quote:


> Unicomp's looks aren't that good


Great keyboards though.


----------



## ch_123

@Tator Tot: Speaking of Unicomp, something about the guide I should mention before I forget it.
Quote:


> *Lower quality manufacturing than IBM Model M* & heavy.


This one is rather misleading at best. IBM (and various subcontractors such as Lexmark) manufactured the IBM-branded Model M for about 15 years (and Unicomp made a few IBM branded ones as late as about 2003/2004) and there were changes and cost-cutting modifications made along the way long before Unicomp got their hands on the design. If you compare a Unicomp with one of the latter-day Model Ms (i.e. 1996 or onwards), you'll find that they are about equal in quality given that they use the same base design.

These ideas arose when people compared Unicomps with 80s-vintage Model Ms which were heavier, and had some nice trimmings likes the removable SDL cables. Ultimately, these things have no bearing on the type quality or durability of the keyboard, and I think if you start comparing them on stuff that doesn't matter, you give people the impression that they are cheap knockoffs, or that they have QA issues (I've seen new folk on Geekhack who operated under these assumptions). There are also some people who assumed that certain things present on Unicomps, such as the noticeable molding marks on the back of keys, or on the casings were a Unicomp cheapening casualty. In fact, these are present on most Model Ms, and even Model Fs in the case of the molding marks on keycaps.

There's also the varying levels of stiffness over the years that people interpret as sign of declining quality. I, for one, prefer lighter keyswitches, and I'm sure many do as well.


----------



## helius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12613921*
> Great keyboards though.


It looks like a real quality build but since I'm competing at LANs, bringing that won't look nice


----------



## ch_123

True enough, a bit bulky as well if you're carrying them around and stuff.

As for the Filco, if you are in the US, you may want to consider the new Leopold keyboards being sold by EliteKeyboards. These promise to be up to the standard of the Filcos, with a few extra trimmings and lower price. If you're in Europe, I'd go for the Filco though, you can't really go wrong either way.


----------



## helius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12614150*
> True enough, a bit bulky as well if you're carrying them around and stuff.
> 
> As for the Filco, if you are in the US, you may want to consider the new Leopold keyboards being sold by EliteKeyboards. These promise to be up to the standard of the Filcos, with a few extra trimmings and lower price. If you're in Europe, I'd go for the Filco though, you can't really go wrong either way.


Unfortunately I'm not in the US, will go for the Filco's definitely.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *helius;12614116*
> It looks like a real quality build but since I'm competing at LANs, bringing that won't look nice


Says a lot when you own their asses though


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IEATFISH;12612834*
> That's sure a nice link! Sure nice of them ... and Manyak for the guide.


Speaking of which. When IS the credits section getting updated?

Lethal Squirrel and I would like to know.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JacobKay97;12613894*
> Thanks Mate.
> 
> I'll be ordering that on Monday/Tuesday along with the rest of my first build.
> 
> So if I connect it using PS2, I can press as many keys as I want at the same time and they will all be registered?


Absolutely, just as long as you use the included adapter. I mean, you can get your own, but then you'd have to make sure that it's one of those purple ones because the green ones are for mice.

But yeah, USB to PS/2 with these boards = NKRO!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *helius;12613903*
> Are there any reviews for the Filco Tenkeyless with MX Cherry Blue switches?


What do you want to know?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12614075*
> @Tator Tot: Speaking of Unicomp, something about the guide I should mention before I forget it...


How about changing it to just "lighter than some IBM Model M's by 5-10g's" ?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12614488*
> Speaking of which. When IS the credits section getting updated?
> 
> Lethal Squirrel and I would like to know.


As soon as possible. I've been a bit busy and I have 2 meetings to attend, one tonight at midnight and another tomorrow at 10 AM (EST.)

After that; I'm going to be out all tomorrow. It will happen though









If you have any specific credits you would like listed feel free to PM them to me as that just makes the job on my part simpler.

I'd suggest a layout like
" Pictures of Switches in action are thanks to Lethal Squirrel on Geekhack "
" Pictures of Keycaps thanks to Ripster on OCN & Geekhack "


----------



## ripster

That'll work. Although spelling my name right would be nice.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12617387*
> That'll work. Although spelling my name right would be nice.


Well those two have been added for now.

You'll have to bare with the slow progress; I've got more duties than just this guide so I can't be focused on just one for too long.

Still, I do hope to keep things up to date more so than in the past.


----------



## JacobKay97

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12615599*
> Absolutely, just as long as you use the included adapter. I mean, you can get your own, but then you'd have to make sure that it's one of those purple ones because the green ones are for mice.
> 
> But yeah, USB to PS/2 with these boards = NKRO!


Okay, thanks TwoCables, and ch_123.
Rep has be given.

I'll be buying it on Monday.
I hope mechanical keyboards are as good as this guide makes them sound.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12615682*
> How about changing it to just "lighter than some IBM Model M's by 5-10g's" ?


Yeah, though I think that's already there. Just get rid of the bit about it being of inferior quality.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JacobKay97;12618384*
> Okay, thanks TwoCables, and ch_123.
> Rep has be given.
> 
> I'll be buying it on Monday.
> I hope mechanical keyboards are as good as this guide makes them sound.


Generally speaking, I'd say a good 97% of buyers of mechanical keyboards are more than happy with their purchase. Even the low end boards most people like.

I wouldn't worry about your purchase to much (unless it doesn't show up by the delivery date







.)

Mech's are fun to have and to use. It's something that you'll interface with daily, and use constantly so it's not like the money is wasted. This isn't a $100 USB gadget. This is a $100 interface for your computer that'll last a long while.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12619069*
> Yeah, though I think that's already there. Just get rid of the bit about it being of inferior quality.


Will do









Obviously some of the "old guide" is rolled over. So I'm fixing what I can when it's brought up.









EDIT: I actually did add a note to it (And the Deck's) about being larger than other mechanical's.)


----------



## ch_123

Yet another KBC Poker review


----------



## helius

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


What do you want to know?










Just wanted to read someone's opinion about it before I get it, I found couple on geekhack though.


----------



## jayblast

Hi all









I'm Jay, and new to this forum.

I wanted to post for two reasons:

First is because I think the mechanical keyboard guide is fantastic! I did not see such a good job in a long time. Although I'm not hunting good guides every day, this one seem like the mother lode!

Second is the reason why this thread poped up in the first place:
My keyboard died. It was an old school "trust direct access keyboard" that I bought loooong time ago. I never felt anything better keyboard-wise. Tried some of these new-supposed-to-feel-better-kinda-laptopish-keyboard. Felt like crap :-((.

My old direct access did not seem like the best keyboard or the most expensive one, but it lasted probably like 10 years and withstood a huge lot of different punishment (whether wanted or not







). The feeling of the switches/keypressing is just the greatest. Until I find one that is even better of course... Only idiots never change their mind







, so here is the question:

How can I know what kind of switch it uses?
In order to find a new keyboard that will be the closest feeling-wise evidently.

Thanks a milllion in advance!!

Last message goes directly to Manyak: once again big huge thanks for this wonderful guide!!

Yours,
--Jay


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Who's maintaining the OPs right now?

I've rounded up a list of all the keyboards available in North America right now (or will soon be available), to go in that "Modern Keyboards" post. But I haven't gotten pictures and all that. But I hope this will be helpful for whoever's working on that.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



*Modern Mechanical Keyboards*

ACK-6600
Adesso MKB-125B
Adesso MKB-135B
Cherry G80-11900
Cherry G80-3000
Cherry G80-3494
Cherry G80-8113
Cherry G80-8200
Cherry G84-4100
Cherry G84-4500
Das Professional S
Das Professional S Ultimate
Deck 82
Deck Legend
DSI Big Font keyboard
Ducky DK9008 OCN edition
Filco
Filco Tenkeyless
Happy Hacking Professional 2
iOne Scorpius M10
Kinesis Advantage
Leopold Tenkeyless FC200RC
Maltron Dual Hands 2D
Maltron Dual Hands 3D
Matias Tactile Pro 3.0
Optimus Maximus
Razer BlackWidow
Razer BlackWidow Ultimate
Rosewill RK-9000
SIIG JK-US0112-S1
Steelseries 6Gv2
Steelseries 7G
Thermaltake Meka G1
Topre Realforce 103U
Topre Realforce 86u
Unicomp Customizer
Unicomp Endurapro
Unicomp SpaceSaver
XArmor U9BL
XArmor U9BL-S
Zowie Celeritas


----------



## Tator Tot

Jayblast, do you still have the keyboard?

If so, you could try removing a keycap and taking a picture of the switch. This could help us identify what switches it uses.

EDIT:
@Phaedrus, I'm doing that right now.


----------



## SmokinWaffle

I sent off my BlackWidow today, and went back to my Sidewinder X4.

It's weird, but I actually prefer it over the blues that I had. I like the silence, and it feels really good, and my WPM is up. This is rubber domes with almost laptop style keys.

Not sure if it's because my BlackWidow switches went stiff or what, but now I have £130 to buy a Filco, and I'm not even sure I want it.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

You could try MX browns.


----------



## Tator Tot

You can always try the browns or the blacks


----------



## SmokinWaffle

But I loved my blues when I got them, then they went stiff and felt horrid, RMA'd and sold the replacement. I liked the noise and feel, everything.

I'm a bit dubious about buying a new switch, £130 on something I might not like.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Well mechanical keyboards retain a lot of resale value, if you can't return it to the vendor.


----------



## jayblast

Hi again,

Here are a couple of pictures. I hope that's what you meant by removing the keycap and shooting what's under.

http://www.jayswing.com/keyb01.jpg
http://www.jayswing.com/keyb02.jpg

These switches seem pretty basic.

Yours,
--Jay


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Those are rubber domes, or more specifically discrete rubber domes. They're better than many modern keyboards, but aren't as good as a high-quality mechanical.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12635154*
> But I loved my blues when I got them, then they went stiff and felt horrid, RMA'd and sold the replacement. I liked the noise and feel, everything.
> 
> I'm a bit dubious about buying a new switch, £130 on something I might not like.


As Phaedrus said, they're usually not to hard to resell.

You could always try getting a IBM Model M or Unicomp keyboard with the UK layout. They shouldn't be too hard to find. And much cheaper than £130.

They're similar to blues, but have a better feel to them do to the greater tactility.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayblast;12635211*
> Hi again,
> 
> Here are a couple of pictures. I hope that's what you meant by removing the keycap and shooting what's under.
> 
> http://www.jayswing.com/keyb01.jpg
> http://www.jayswing.com/keyb02.jpg
> 
> These switches seem pretty basic.
> 
> Yours,
> --Jay


As Phaedrus stated, they're "better domes" a step above what is used by most keyboards, but not quiet as "high quality" as most mechanical switches.

The Steel Series Shift keyboard uses some of those better rubber domes, though I don't know how much it is like that particular keyboard.

Though the Shift is a pretty good keyboard; like most of the domes, it'll age much faster. Though for perspective, the Shift's domes are rated at 20Mil Operations which is around the same as the Cherry MX-Blue switches (MX-Blacks & MX-Reds are 50 Mil, MX-Browns & MX-Clears are 35 mil to memory.)

That's only one option though; there's many more.


----------



## SmokinWaffle

Yeah, I guess, a lot of messing around though.

Currently deciding between a Filco, and going to see Paloma Faith (among others) in London next week, and at the moment I'm leaning towards the latter,


----------



## jayblast

Alright,

Thank you for the information!

Could you recommend any mechanical option that would have the same kind of feeling?

From the animated gif I reckon MX-Browns would be a good option.

Yours,
--Jay


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12635716*
> Yeah, I guess, a lot of messing around though.
> 
> Currently deciding between a Filco, and going to see Paloma Faith (among others) in London next week, and at the moment I'm leaning towards the latter,


If that's a band, I'd probably lean towards going to see the band.

I just saw Dropkick Murphy's last night. I easily could have spent that money on something else but concerts are to much fun.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayblast;12635784*
> Alright,
> 
> Thank you for the information!
> 
> Could you recommend any mechanical option that would have the same kind of feeling?
> 
> From the animated gif I reckon MX-Browns would be a good option.
> 
> Yours,
> --Jay


MX-Clears may be a bit closer to what you're used to because of the force required. But they're only available on Deck's which can cost around $200 shipped.

What is the budget you are looking at?


----------



## SmokinWaffle

Oh man, I've not listened to the Dropkick Murphys in ages! I'll get on that tomorrow,









Not a band, but she is a very talented, and beautiful, solo artist;





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKIM3SkR45I[/ame[/URL]]


----------



## jayblast

Tator_tot,

200USD might be a bit of a stretch. Living in France so I expect huge shipping cost.

xe.com tells me somewhere between 150-175USD would make my bank account feel safe (Even though it really isn't... Never...)

Could you recommend any mechanical keyboard within that price range according the specs described? (I might be wrong too, but a mainstream mechanical keyboard would be almost always better as an high end rubber one wouldn't it? Especially if they changed the rubber-types to the one I tried lately...)

Thank you so so much for your time









Yours,
--Jay
Ps: Paloma Faith, what a voice!! Amazing.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12635848*
> Oh man, I've not listened to the Dropkick Murphys in ages! I'll get on that tomorrow,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not a band, but she is a very talented, and beautiful, solo artist;


A little pop-ish, but not bad. I can sense the snide in it, and I can't help but giggle at the video.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayblast;12635924*
> Tator_tot,
> 
> 200USD might be a bit of a stretch. Living in France so I expect huge shipping cost.
> 
> xe.com tells me somewhere between 150-175USD would make my bank account feel safe (Even though it really isn't... Never...)
> 
> Could you recommend any mechanical keyboard within that price range according the specs described? (I might be wrong too, but a mainstream mechanical keyboard would be almost always better as an high end rubber one wouldn't it? Especially if they changed the rubber-types to the one I tried lately...)
> 
> Thank you so so much for your time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yours,
> --Jay
> Ps: Paloma Faith, what a voice!! Amazing.


Normally, yeah I would pick a Mech over a Dome board. But I've had the Shift at my fingertips and it's not a bad board.

Keyboard Co should have the Filco Tactile Touch in by the end of April. It may be a bit of a wait, but it's the french layout version. So it'd work out best for you.

Though, the US layout is available right now if you are comfortable with it.


----------



## jayblast

Wow,

It sure looks awesome! Don't know if I can wait that much though!! Argh...

My laptop's a toughbook with japanese QWERTY keyboard, so I'm used to exotic keyboard and typing.

As long as I can specify from which region it should operate as, having a Q actually written on the key, but with an actual A on screen, that does not really matter that much







.

French Filco Majestouch uses brown switch. Anything with Clear switches? Just wondering.

Oh another feature I'm just thinking of while watching the steel series keyboard: any chance some of these keyboards having NO left windows key? Thought it was brilliant that they removed the left windows key from their G7 / G6v2.

Yours,
--Jay


----------



## Tator Tot

Overclock.net Edition DK-9008's by Ducky do. You can set both Windows keys to disabled. Requires no software for any of it's features.

The only thing is that you'll have to contact TankGuys on the forums via PM and have them setup an international order for you.

The keyboards are US ANSI layout. Though as you said, that's not a problem for you.


----------



## SmokinWaffle

Yeah, Tator, that song is probably her most pop-y. It's got a catchy 40's/50's vibe. If you listen to some of the other songs off of her album, like "New York" and "Do you want the truth or something beautiful?", they are much more melodic, vocally speaking.

Not Melody Gardot levels of vocals, but she has a wonderful edge to her voice which I love. Plus the fact that she is British, and her actual speaking voice is very timid and cute.

Now I just need to find someone to go with, London is a scary place on your own.









Anyhow, enough about her, this is a keyboard thread!


----------



## jayblast

Tator_tot,

You just made my day









Well actually it's my night...

Who cares?! You made my week









Trully yours,
--Jay


----------



## Tator Tot

I'm glad I could help out.

I forgot to mention before, but right now; only Deck Keyboards come with Cherry MX-Clear switches sadly. I own one, and I love my clears. There are _some_ Cherry brand keyboards that come with them. Though it's kinda grab bag unless you can directly ask.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *helius;12632129*
> Just wanted to read someone's opinion about it before I get it, I found couple on geekhack though.


Well I was just going to say that I own a Filco Majestouch Tactile Click, and I think that it is a very high-quality keyboard. It just _makes_ me want to type! So without writing a mini-essay, all I can say is that I highly recommend it.

*Tator Tot:* Can you incorporate something into the Guide about how good mechanical keyboards just make you want to type? I am stealing this from the Amazon.com product page for those colored Filcos, and I think it's a great way to briefly explain one reason why mechanical keyboards can be a far superior choice to rubber dome keyboards. The phrase was _"These keyboards must make you want to type."_. But, I think that this applies to all good mechanical keyboards. So, I think we can say something like, _"Why should you consider a mechanical keyboard? One reason is because they just make you want to type!"_
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12635071*
> I sent off my BlackWidow today, and went back to my Sidewinder X4.
> 
> It's weird, but I actually prefer it over the blues that I had. I like the silence, and it feels really good, and my WPM is up. This is rubber domes with almost laptop style keys.
> 
> Not sure if it's because my BlackWidow switches went stiff or what, but now I have £130 to buy a Filco, and I'm not even sure I want it.


I think that as long as you don't get another BlackWidow or an actual iOne-branded board, then you will love it for its entire life. For example: I've had my Filco Majestouch Tactile Click for almost a year (since last March 9th), and it still feels and sounds just as good as it did when I unboxed it.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayblast;12636102*
> French Filco Majestouch uses brown switch. Anything with Clear switches? Just wondering.


Only the Deck and some Cherry-made keyboards have the Clear switches. They are going to become even more rare now that Cherry has announced that the clear switches are going to be discontinued.


----------



## Crazy9000

i thought cherry was making the minimum order 10x larger, and not fully canceling them.


----------



## gre0481

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Manyak*


*Modern Mechanical Keyboards*
*Overclock.net Edition Ducky DK9008*
*








Link*: Overclock.net
 *Price:* $110 ($140 for special edition)
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Blues or Cherry MX Browns
*Switch Mounting:* Plate
*Keycap Printing:* Pad Printing (standard) Laser Etched and dye filled (special edition)
*Key Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* PS/2 or USB
*Rollover:* NKRO (PS/2) | 6+4 key (USB)
*Layout:* US ANSI
*Extra Features:* Detachable USB Cable, Fn Media Keys, Swappable Caps Lock & Control, Windows Keys Disable, 4 macro keys, Windows Key & Alt keys switchable. 
*Drawbacks:*


Really looking for one solid place of information on this board. My question is where do you find the special edition? Tankguys doesn't list the keycap printing.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gre0481;12643377*
> Really looking for one solid place of information on this board. My question is where do you find the special edition? Tankguys doesn't list the keycap printing.


Special Edition is the $140 model. They are PBT caps that are lazered and infilled.


----------



## ripster

Here. I linked to the Cherry Blues version because Cherry Browns are the "Training Wheels" of the Mechanical Keyboard World.

14 feedback. As you can see Ducky is taking the keyboard world by storm.


----------



## SmokinWaffle

Not that'd I'd want one over a Filco, but still.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12644305*
> 
> Not that'd I'd want one over a Filco, but still.


OCN Ducky's do


----------



## SmokinWaffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12644368*
> OCN Ducky's do


But they don't look like this:



















Even if they did, I doubt I'd get one as they only have the US (







) layout, and I've seen certain bad things about Duckys build quality, which puts me off a little.


----------



## ch_123

Build quality issues on Duckys seem to depend on whether they're the cheaper 1000 models, or the more expensive 8000 series.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gre0481;12643377*
> Really looking for one solid place of information on this board. My question is where do you find the special edition? Tankguys doesn't list the keycap printing.


Here:

http://www.overclock.net/overclock-net-related-news-information/942878-overclock-net-launches-our-branded-line.html

Here are the links in that thread:

Ducky Overclock.net Edition with Cherry MX Browns

Ducky Overclock.net Edition with Cherry MX Blues

Ducky Overclock.net *Special Edition* which has the Cherry MX Browns under PBT keys. It also includes a wrist rest.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12644414*
> Even if they did, I doubt I'd get one as they only have the US (
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) layout, and I've seen certain bad things about Duckys build quality, which puts me off a little.


We'll actually be offering black-on-black PBT caps sometime in the future.

Also, Ducky's issues only pertained to the 1087 and some tooling issues. Our boards are based on the DK-9008 which doesn't have any of those problems.
For that matter, the build quality is comparable to that of a Filco or any of the Daitec boards.
Though our boards have more features.


----------



## gre0481

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12643924*
> Special Edition is the $140 model. They are PBT caps that are lazered and infilled.


Thanks. I couldn't find that on the tank guys site.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


----------



## gre0481

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12644531*
> Here:
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/overclock-net-related-news-information/942878-overclock-net-launches-our-branded-line.html
> 
> Here are the links in that thread:
> 
> Ducky Overclock.net Edition with Cherry MX Browns
> 
> Ducky Overclock.net Edition with Cherry MX Blues
> 
> Ducky Overclock.net *Special Edition* which has the Cherry MX Browns under PBT keys. It also includes a wrist rest.


I did see that thread, but I did have my question answered by Tater. I did not see Deluxe in the title of the 140 dollar board, so I did not know that it was the engraved/dyed version of keys.

I'm kind of caught between a rock and a hard place, because I really would like a new mechanical, but would love the space available with a tenkeyless with my G13


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12644414*
> But they don't look like this:
> 
> [/QUOTE]
> 
> We will see about getting the G2 later on. [IMG alt="wink.gif"]https://www.overclock.net/images/smilies/wink.gif
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12644414*
> Even if they did, I doubt I'd get one as they only have the US (
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) layout, and I've seen certain bad things about Duckys build quality, which puts me off a little.
> 
> 
> 
> As said, the only quality issues lie with the 1087 (and probably the 1008) and they're redesigning both of those.
Click to expand...


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12635848*
> Oh man, I've not listened to the Dropkick Murphys in ages! I'll get on that tomorrow,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not a band, but she is a very talented, and beautiful, solo artist;


So anyway.... I find her derivative of the whole Duffy/AmyWinerehab London pop crowd but the show sounds like it would be good.

And British Pop goes through this retro doowop phase frequently.





written by the incomparable Kirsty MacColl


----------



## Tator Tot

More guide updates today.

New keyboards added, some errors correct (thanks to those who pointed it out.)

If there is anything else I need to do, please post or PM me and I will get to changing it ASAP.


----------



## ch_123

For the Unicomps, you say the keyboard has 3KRO, which they don't. In fact, I don't think it's even possible for a keyboard to have 3KRO.

Also, I might post up some things about the Alps sections in a while.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12658265*
> For the Unicomps, you say the keyboard has 3KRO, which they don't. In fact, I don't think it's even possible for a keyboard to have 3KRO.
> 
> Also, I might post up some things about the Alps sections in a while.


Well that was rolled over from Manyak's version.

Are they 2KRO?


----------



## ripster

I'd drop the DSI BigFont.

The old dudes hang out at Geekhack.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12658350*
> I'd drop the DSI BigFont.
> 
> The old dudes hang out at Geekhack.


It's cheap, for the most part no reason to drop it. At $45 + Shipping it could be a nice introductory board to people looking for a mechanical board.

Beyond that; it's compatible with the OCN Alps cap; so you can have a bit of fun with it as well.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

I thought yellow Alps clones were linear?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;12658448*
> I thought yellow Alps clones were linear?


They are, I just goofed.


----------



## gonX

On the DSI Big Font I'd probably use "easy to read" rather than "easy to see".


----------



## ch_123

I ended up rewriting your Alps section. There was a lot of stuff there that was irrelevant or inaccurate.

*Black Alps*

Type: Tactile Mechanical Switch
Tactile: Yes
Clicky: No
Actuation Force: Complicated 70g, Simplified 60g
Key Travel: 3.5mm

Black Alps are one of the two most common Alps switch types. Many people do not like these switches due to the fact that they are stiff, bottom out hard, and tend to develop friction in the travel as they wear. Nonetheless, they are an improvement over most rubber dome keyboards.

There are two different types of Black Alps switch - an older type known as the "Complicated" due to the large number of parts in the switch, and a newer type known as the "Simplified", which was manufactured by Alps and some other companies. Complicated switches are common in many older keyboards, particularly the Dell AT101W, which is a very common mechanical keyboard from the 1990s.

The most well known Simplified Black switch is made by a company called ***ka, and was used in the ABS M1. The ***ka switch has less resistance, but many claim that it provides less solid tactility than the Complicated switch.

*White Alps*

Type: Clicky & Tactile Mechanical Switch
Tactile: Yes
Clicky: Yes
Actuation Force: 60g-70g (Force Diagram)
Key Travel: 3.5mm

White Alps are one of the two most most common Alps switch types. These are far more popular than the Black switches due to more pronounced tactility, and the lower force requirements of some versions. Like the Black Alps, White Alps are much easier to bottom out on compared with other mechanical keyswitch designs.

As with the Black switch. there are Complicated and Simplified White switches. The two most popular Simplified White switches are the ***ka and the XM. The XM is almost universally considered to be a terrible switch, it was used on some older Filco Zero models, and some vintage keyboards. The ***ka switch is quite popular, and some people prefer them over the Complicated switch. It is used on some current production Alps keyboards such as current production Filco Zeros, Matias keyboards and some others. Complicated White switches were used on some well made keyboards from the 90s such as the Northgate and Focus keyboards.

There are also a variety of White Alps-like switches of varying quality. Some, like the SMK Monterey, are considered very pleasant to type on.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;12658594*
> On the DSI Big Font I'd probably use "easy to read" rather than "easy to see".


Danke, I'll change that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12658631*
> *snip*


Danke









I'll use this and throw in some credit for ya too.


----------



## ripster

If I bring up PS/2 versus USB will I be banned?

Oh well, answer me this. If UEFI is written in C and BIOS in Assembler shouldn't people stick with the old BIOS for that real time latency that Windows is so known for?


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


I ended up rewriting your Alps section. There was a lot of stuff there that was irrelevant or inaccurate.

*Black Alps*

Type: Tactile Mechanical Switch
Tactile: Yes
Clicky: No
Actuation Force: Complicated 70g, Simplified 60g
Key Travel: 3.5mm

Black Alps are one of the two most common Alps switch types. Many people do not like these switches due to the fact that they are stiff, bottom out hard, and tend to develop friction in the travel as they wear. Nonetheless, they are an improvement over most rubber dome keyboards.

There are two different types of Black Alps switch - an older type known as the "Complicated" due to the large number of parts in the switch, and a newer type known as the "Simplified", which was manufactured by Alps and some other companies. Complicated switches are common in many older keyboards, particularly the Dell AT101W, which is a very common mechanical keyboard from the 1990s.

The most well known Simplified Black switch is made by a company called ***ka, and was used in the ABS M1. The ***ka switch has less resistance, but many claim that it provides less solid tactility than the Complicated switch.

*White Alps*

Type: Clicky & Tactile Mechanical Switch
Tactile: Yes
Clicky: Yes
Actuation Force: 60g-70g (Force Diagram)
Key Travel: 3.5mm

White Alps are one of the two most most common Alps switch types. These are far more popular than the Black switches due to more pronounced tactility, and the lower force requirements of some versions. Like the Black Alps, White Alps are much easier to bottom out on compared with other mechanical keyswitch designs.

As with the Black switch. there are Complicated and Simplified White switches. The two most popular Simplified White switches are the ***ka and the XM. The XM is almost universally considered to be a terrible switch, it was used on some older Filco Zero models, and some vintage keyboards. The ***ka switch is quite popular, and some people prefer them over the Complicated switch. It is used on some current production Alps keyboards such as current production Filco Zeros, Matias keyboards and some others. Complicated White switches were used on some well made keyboards from the 90s such as the Northgate and Focus keyboards.

There are also a variety of White Alps-like switches of varying quality. Some, like the SMK Monterey, are considered very pleasant to type on.


Whoah - too much information. Especially since I don't plan on seeing a shipping easy to get NKRO Gaming ALPS keyboard in my lifetime.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


If I bring up PS/2 versus USB will I be banned?


That's not up to me, but if you have something constructive to add it's always welcome.

I take suggestions in stride, and I am just here to make sure the guide has the best info in a general sense.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Whoah - too much information. Especially since I don't plan on seeing a shipping easy to get NKRO Gaming ALPS keyboard in my lifetime.


You may be surprised on that regard. Who knows.


----------



## IEATFISH

My wife has been using my Filco with Blues but decided she likes my OCN Ducky with Browns better for the feel of the switches. She also took a liking to the Noppoo Choc Mini for the small form factor and media keys/numpad. Unfortunately, the only way I Can see to get one is through the services that buy and get it for you from China. Is there an easier way or a comparable keyboard for a decent price (sub $150)?


----------



## TwoCables

I am trying to remember something: which new mechanical keyboard or keyboards has/have true NKRO over USB?

I'm in the process of trying to help edit/improve the guide, and I'm at Post #2 ("Terminology"). I'm at a part where I am saying that up until recently, NKRO was only possible over PS/2 and now there is at least one mechanical keyboard that has true NKRO over USB. Unfortunately, that's all I can remember.







So, I want to be as accurate and as informative as possible.

I'm not going to talk about that Microsoft board because if I remember correctly, then I think it has 26KRO, not NKRO.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

From what I can tell, only 2 exist; Noppoo Choc Mini, and Ducky 9008-G2 (which isn't officially out yet).


----------



## Tator Tot

Ducky DK-9008-G2 & Noppo Choc Mini

The Microsoft Sidewinder x4 was close (but only 26keys at once, not that it'll really matter.)

There's also another board in development using similar tech to what Microsoft did. But no names for that yet.


----------



## SmokinWaffle

Yeah, when I tried pressing 27 keys in COD to do an awesome killstreak combo, it didn't work.

Boy, I was mad!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle*


Yeah, when I tried pressing 27 keys in COD to do an awesome killstreak combo, it didn't work.

Boy, I was mad!












I hate when I can't facedesk my keyboard and get every key to work.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I am trying to remember something: which new mechanical keyboard or keyboards has/have true NKRO over USB?

I'm in the process of trying to help edit/improve the guide, and I'm at Post #2 ("Terminology"). I'm at a part where I am saying that up until recently, NKRO was only possible over PS/2 and now there is at least one mechanical keyboard that has true NKRO over USB. Unfortunately, that's all I can remember.







So, I want to be as accurate and as informative as possible.

I'm not going to talk about that Microsoft board because if I remember correctly, then I think it has 26KRO, not NKRO.


That's just nitpicking. Why not call 26kro NKRO? There is no difference.


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Whoah - too much information. Especially since I don't plan on seeing a shipping easy to get NKRO Gaming ALPS keyboard in my lifetime.


Well, the point isn't to only have info about shipping and easy to get keyboards. Otherwise why would there be info about buckling spring and other old switches as well? This is a complete mechanical keyboard guide, so even old switches are included. I had a Filco Zero Series tenkeyless from elite as my first mechanical keyboard. I'm sure they can still be found used somewhere. It's good info for people who want to know about the switch type.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *IEATFISH*


My wife has been using my Filco with Blues but decided she likes my OCN Ducky with Browns better for the feel of the switches. She also took a liking to the Noppoo Choc Mini for the small form factor and media keys/numpad. Unfortunately, the only way I Can see to get one is through the services that buy and get it for you from China. Is there an easier way or a comparable keyboard for a decent price (sub $150)?


I got a Choc mini through Obook. It was actually super easy and it didn't take very long at all. Their English wasn't perfect, but I got the jist of what they were saying. It took about a week for Obook to obtain the keyboard, and then they shipped the keyboard on a Friday, and it was on my doorstep that Monday via TNT.

It ended up being $117 Paypal'd and shipped, but I got the Cherry MX Black version which was a little bit cheaper. I think the version with the Browns would have been more around $130.

Alternatively, wait until elitekeyboards gets their Leopold FC200RT/AB in. It'll only be $99.


----------



## Farley

Are cherry browns better than blues for gaming (FPS, the odd MMO)? I've come from a rubber domed keyboard to a Razer BlackWidow and it's an absolute dream to type on but they don't seem to feel right when playing games...


----------



## IEATFISH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


I got a Choc mini through Obook. It was actually super easy and it didn't take very long at all. Their English wasn't perfect, but I got the jist of what they were saying. It took about a week for Obook to obtain the keyboard, and then they shipped the keyboard on a Friday, and it was on my doorstep that Monday via TNT.

It ended up being $117 Paypal'd and shipped, but I got the Cherry MX Black version which was a little bit cheaper. I think the version with the Browns would have been more around $130.

Alternatively, wait until elitekeyboards gets their Leopold FC200RT/AB in. It'll only be $99.


Yeah, if we don't get the Choc then that was another one she was looking at. Or if we get the 1087s from Ducky for OCN, that's another option. Thanks for the info!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Farley*


Are cherry browns better than blues for gaming (FPS, the odd MMO)? I've come from a rubber domed keyboard to a Razer BlackWidow and it's an absolute dream to type on but they don't seem to feel right when playing games...










Yeah man some people, like me, have trouble gaming with the blues. The browns should fix that. Blacks are also another option, but many don't enjoy typing on them.


----------



## thiru

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Farley*


Are cherry browns better than blues for gaming (FPS, the odd MMO)? I've come from a rubber domed keyboard to a Razer BlackWidow and it's an absolute dream to type on but they don't seem to feel right when playing games...










What exactly do you feel is wrong with them?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Farley*


Are cherry browns better than blues for gaming (FPS, the odd MMO)? I've come from a rubber domed keyboard to a Razer BlackWidow and it's an absolute dream to type on but they don't seem to feel right when playing games...










Like Crazy said, that's normal for many.

MX-Brown switches usually feel more at home for most.


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *IEATFISH*


Yeah, if we don't get the Choc then that was another one she was looking at. Or if we get the 1087s from Ducky for OCN, that's another option. Thanks for the info!


No problem. I really like the Choc because of the multimedia keys. It's great being able to press Fn+A or Fn+D to move back/forward one song on my Foobar2000 playlist while I'm in a game without having to alt-tab. On the other hand, the printing on the keys is Brown, which is pretty hard to read if you're someone who has to look at the keys while typing. At first it was a problem, but after using the board for a few weeks I'm comfortable with the layout and don't need to look down anymore.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Yeah man some people, like me, have trouble gaming with the blues. The browns should fix that. Blacks are also another option, but many don't enjoy typing on them.


I dunno, I tried my friend's das with blues and wasn't really a fan. As I've said before, I do bottom out though, so that's probably why I like my Blacks. I don't want to learn to only press half way, I'm perfectly content banging on my keyboard. Blacks are still a joy to type on compared to rubber domes.


----------



## Farley

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thiru*


What exactly do you feel is wrong with them?


It's really hard for me to explain. Maybe it will just take some getting used to, but I think I'm going to give the browns a go, they seem to be the best all-rounder.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


From what I can tell, only 2 exist; Noppoo Choc Mini, and Ducky 9008-G2 (which isn't officially out yet).



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Ducky DK-9008-G2 & Noppo Choc Mini

The Microsoft Sidewinder x4 was close (but only 26keys at once, not that it'll really matter.)

There's also another board in development using similar tech to what Microsoft did. But no names for that yet.


Thank you, guys! I'll only mention the Noppoo Choc Mini and the Ducky 9008-G2 while simultaneously saying that, at the time the post was written, that specific Ducky model wasn't available.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle*


Yeah, when I tried pressing 27 keys in COD to do an awesome killstreak combo, it didn't work.

Boy, I was mad!


LOL!!!

That is all.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


That's just nitpicking. Why not call 26kro NKRO? There is no difference.


Because then it would be incorrect. NKRO means that the keyboard has unlimited key rollover (i.e. absolutely no chances for blocked keys) while 26KRO means 26 simultaneous key presses. In other words, 26KRO may seem like NKRO most of the time, but it doesn't mean that there are absolutely no chances for blocked keys.

So it's not nit-picking: it's being accurate. I mean since this is a Guide, it's necessary to provide accurate and educational information.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


No problem. I really like the Choc because of the multimedia keys. It's great being able to press Fn+A or Fn+D to move back/forward one song on my Foobar2000 playlist while I'm in a game without having to alt-tab. On the other hand, the printing on the keys is Brown, which is pretty hard to read if you're someone who has to look at the keys while typing. At first it was a problem, but after using the board for a few weeks I'm comfortable with the layout and don't need to look down anymore.

I dunno, I tried my friend's das with blues and wasn't really a fan. As I've said before, I do bottom out though, so that's probably why I like my Blacks. I don't want to learn to only press half way, I'm perfectly content banging on my keyboard. Blacks are still a joy to type on compared to rubber domes.


You might be surprised, though: I mean, I learned how to avoid bottoming out and it is a much greater pleasure to type this way as opposed to bottoming out each and every keystroke (as opposed to typing on the keyboard as though it's a rubber dome board). So I think that bottoming out every single keystroke defeats a part of the purpose and benefit of a mechanical keyboard.


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


You might be surprised, though: I mean, I learned how to avoid bottoming out and it is a much greater pleasure to type this way as opposed to bottoming out each and every keystroke (as opposed to typing on the keyboard as though it's a rubber dome board). So I think that bottoming out every single keystroke defeats a part of the purpose and benefit of a mechanical keyboard.


I find for gaming, the Blacks do much better than a rubber dome keyboard. When I used a rubber done from playing Starcraft and I wanted to make 3 Zerglings and 1 Overlord, I would find myself accidentally making 4 Zerglings, running out of larvae, not noticing and ending up supply blocked. All because I couldn't tell how many times I was pressing the key.

I may bottom out with my mechanical keyboard, but it's still much easier to tell how many times I'm pressing a key.


----------



## ripster

I betcha the Noppoo and Ducky G2 are also 26KRO if you replicate the Sidewinder X4 test. It's a USB/Windows/Apps stack "feature".

And really, how do you get greater than 104KRO if your keyboard only has 104 keys?

Accuracy is one thing. Making a confusing subject more confusing is only asking for trouble.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Because then it would be incorrect. NKRO means that the keyboard has unlimited key rollover (i.e. absolutely no chances for blocked keys) while 26KRO means 26 simultaneous key presses. In other words, 26KRO may seem like NKRO most of the time, but it doesn't mean that there are absolutely no chances for blocked keys.

So it's not nit-picking: it's being accurate. I mean since this is a Guide, it's necessary to provide accurate and educational information.


I would still include it in the category, with a side note that it's technically 26. If I was searching for a keyboard that didn't block keys, and had under $100, it would be very helpful to know the sidewinder wouldn't block unless I used my face as well as hands.


----------



## IEATFISH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


I betcha the Noppoo and Ducky G2 are also 26KRO if you replicate the Sidewinder X4 test.

And really, how do you get greater than 104KRO if your keyboard only has 104 keys?

Accuracy is one thing. Making a confusing subject more confusing is only asking for trouble.


You just have to plug in another keyboard, preferably USB so the connectors can work on different wavelengths, and hold down those keys too. Since you plugged the NKRO one in first, it will control the other keyboard as well effectively making a 150+KRO.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


I betcha the Noppoo and Ducky G2 are also 26KRO if you replicate the Sidewinder X4 test. It's a USB/Windows/Apps stack "feature".


I think fssbzz did a video showing that one of those WAS NKRO over USB. I'll need to find it again. Edit; I knew it. http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:13825


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


I find for gaming, the Blacks do much better than a rubber dome keyboard. When I used a rubber done from playing Starcraft and I wanted to make 3 Zerglings and 1 Overlord, I would find myself accidentally making 4 Zerglings and then being supply blocked, simply because I couldn't tell how many times I was pressing the key.

I may bottom out with my mechanical keyboard, but it's still much easier to tell how many times I'm pressing a key.


I admit that I forgot to mention that I'm mostly talking about typing.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I would still include it in the category, with a side note that it's technically 26. If I was searching for a keyboard that didn't block keys, and had under $100, it would be very helpful to know the sidewinder wouldn't block unless I used my face as well as hands.


I might, but this is a mechanical keyboard guide.







I mean, I think that it's trying to be anti-rubber domes, so I don't want to mess with that.









However, I am including a brief mention that the Sidewinder X4 has 26KRO while saying that it's still a rubber dome keyboard.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *IEATFISH*


You just have to plug in another keyboard, preferably USB so the connectors can work on different wavelengths, and hold down those keys too. Since you plugged the NKRO one in first, it will control the other keyboard as well effectively making a 150+KRO.


Good point. If you plug in infinite keyboards you will run out of USB ports though. N is kinda limited in NKRO any way you look at it.

I call this pic, "No Room For PS/2 In My Future"


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Good point. If you plug in infinite keyboards you will run out of USB ports though. N is kinda limited in NKRO any way you look at it.


Not if you use infinite USB hubs. However, the same argument could be applied to a 2nkro board. With infinity boards, you would have infinite rollover no matter what board you used.


----------



## seesee

I thinking of converting to a Noppoo Choc Mini (Brown) keyboard from a regular keyboard.

I'm worried about the keyboard layout, is there any learning curves? I am a software programmer, would it reduce my coding efficiency and comfort level?


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> A USB network is built from USB hubs connected downstream to USB ports, which themselves may stem from USB hubs. USB hubs can extend a USB network to a maximum of 127 ports. The USB specification requires that bus-powered hubs may not be connected in series to other bus-powered hubs.


Infinite number of hubs? How about 127x104=13,208KRO?

Frankly the 6KRO of USB is fine. I don't even need the extra 4 modifiers since I don't play those weird games with both hands on the keyboards.

13,208 would be a nice number for the OP though.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12664655*
> Infinite number of hubs? How about 127x104=13,208KRO?
> 
> Frankly the 6KRO of USB is fine. I don't even need the extra 4 modifiers since I don't play those weird games with both hands on the keyboards.
> 
> 13,208 would be a nice number for the OP though.


Well I occasionally need 7KRO. I'm not willing to concede rollover until 10, which is enough for both hands. I don't believe in playing games with my face. 12KRO is good because it's double the default 6.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;12662643*
> I think fssbzz did a video showing that one of those WAS NKRO over USB. I'll need to find it again. Edit; I knew it. http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:13825


I don't think he got to 26 where the Windows/USB/Application bug starts appearing. Let alone 104. Needs mo fingahs!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12665009*
> I don't think he got to 26 where the Windows/USB/Application bug starts appearing. Let alone 104. Needs mo fingahs!


41 seconds in he's pressing about 40 keys. Enough to debunk the 26 theory at least.


----------



## ripster

Not conclusive. The issue is you get GHOSTING, not BLOCKING in some situations above 26 keys.

Does anybody really care about 26KRO?

Oh, that's right, the baby with those 13 fingers and toes. Eww......


----------



## seesee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *seesee;12664503*
> I thinking of converting to a Noppoo Choc Mini (Brown) keyboard from a regular keyboard.
> 
> I'm worried about the keyboard layout, is there any learning curves? I am a software programmer, would it reduce my coding efficiency and comfort level?


upp!!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12665266*
> Not conclusive. The issue is you get GHOSTING, not BLOCKING in some situations above 26 keys.
> 
> Does anybody really care about 26KRO?
> 
> Oh, that's right, the baby with those 13 fingers and toes. Eww......


I'm with you, I can't imagine why anyone could even possibly care. I'm all for changing the definition of NKRO to being 10+ keys, since that's effectively "N". If you can't press more, then it's basically got infinite rollover. Maybe 12 keys just for some headroom, but 26 should definitely fly.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12658017*
> More guide updates today.
> 
> New keyboards added, some errors correct (thanks to those who pointed it out.)
> 
> If there is anything else I need to do, please post or PM me and I will get to changing it ASAP.


I feel that it's time I stepped up to the plate and become the editor that I promised I would be. I mean, I think that it's long overdue and it has ended up seeming like I was just blowing smoke. So, here are my proposed changes for only the first three posts so far (I ran out of energy) that I made in order to maximize the readability concerning spelling, grammar, style, paragraph separation, and sentence structure. I literally went over these first three posts word-by-word.



Spoiler: Post #1



*Fact:* Nearly all keyboards sold at retail stores or bundled with computers are rubber dome keyboards (which can also be called "membrane" keyboards). This is the same cheap low-cost design used things in TV remotes and telephones (including cell phones and other mobile devices). So this design is used to maximize profits. Yes, this even includes high-end keyboards like the Logitech G19. So, why settle for something that is essentially no better inside than some generic $5.99 keyboard? Even though something like the G19 looks awesome on the outside, it's still just a rubber dome keyboard on the inside.

*Tator Tot: what happened to those pictures that showed what the rubber dome-over-membrane looks like as well as what the individual rubber domes look like?*

I'm talking particularly about this one:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8b/Keyboard_Construction_Button_Press.JPG

This 1600x1200 image can also be linked for those interested to see the overall usual construction of rubber dome keyboards:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/97/Keyboard_Construction.JPG

Unfortunately, this is the only image I could find to show the original type of rubber domes:

http://www.freeopenbook.com/upgrading-repairing-pc/FILES/18fig05.gif

*End of line.







*

*So why should you consider a mechanical keyboard*?

For most people it's all about the feel: they just make you want to type. But with rubber dome keyboards, you have to press the key all the way down to the bottom to get it to register. This wastes a lot of energy and causes fatigue because most of your effort is spent pushing against a solid piece of plastic (this becomes very clear once you experience a good mechanical keyboard).

But mechanical switches are designed so that they register _before_ you bottom out. This means that you don't have to bottom out in order to get a keystroke to register. Plus they use actual springs! So all of this adds up to the keyboard working *with* you, and not _against_ you. Except, this difference is usually only truly understood once a mechanical keyboard is finally experienced first-hand.

In addition, there are several different types of mechanical switches from which to choose! So you can choose which one you think you'd be the most comfortable with because each one has its own feel (and the "clicky" ones add mechanical click sound). But almost all rubber dome keyboards feel the same, generally speaking. Granted, there are differences between many rubber dome keyboards, but the differences are not as noticeable (or as big) as the differences between the various types of mechanical switches.

Finally, most people who try a mechanical keyboard can never go back to using rubber domes because they realize just how "mushy" they really feel. Some people have even reported that their typing speed increased because of their mechanical keyboard. Others report a dramatically increased desire to type which is what we mean when we say that good mechanical keyboards make you want to type!

*Index*:

Page 1: Terminology
Page 2: Common Switch Types
Page 3: Keycap Plastics & Shape
Page 4: Keycap Printing
Page 5: Modern Mechanical Keyboards
Page 6: List of Mechanical Keyboards by Switch Type
Page 7: Replacement Keycaps & Maintenance
Page 8: Miscellaneous Information & Resources
Page 9: Credits & Thanks






Spoiler: Post #2



*Terminology*

*Key Blocking* *& Ghosting*
Ghosting is when you press two keys on the keyboard, and a 3rd key - which you didn't press - gets sent to the computer as well. This used to be a problem that required true anti-ghosting, but today this is _very rarely_ seen on even the _cheapest_ modern boards because now manufacturers simply limit the key rollover in order to prevent ghosting (it's a modern form of anti-ghosting that costs less to implement). So the term "anti-ghosting" is being used incorrectly today.

Key Blocking is as simple as it sounds; if you were to press 3 keys simultaneously but 1 or 2 of those keys don't register, then you just experienced blocked keys. This is dictated by the "matrix" (the circuit layout on the membrane or PCB) which dictates the keyboard's "key rollover", or "KRO".

*Anti-Ghosting*
This is an old term that most of today's manufacturers are now using to describe what we know as "key rollover" (or perhaps "improved key rollover"). For example, Microsoft says that the Sidewinder X4 has Anti-Ghosting for up to 26 simultaneous key presses. But that's not anti-ghosting: it's just 26KRO.

Of course, many other manufacturers (like Razer and Logitech) mention "Anti-Ghosting" too, but they're usually just saying that they have designed the matrix so that we never get blocked keys when using the WASD cluster. It's like saying that their keyboards can seem to have NKRO when using the WASD.

Even Steelseries is doing it: both the 7G and 6Gv2 have NKRO, but they call it "Extreme Anti-Ghosting" instead.

The reason why they are all using this term (even though it's being used incorrectly) is because it sounds cool and therefore it does a better job of selling. It would sound boring if they used the correct terminology because then they couldn't say "Extreme Anti-Ghosting". Perhaps they could use "Extreme Key Rollover", but that obviously doesn't sound as cool and obviously wouldn't sell as easily.

*Key Rollover (#KRO & NKRO)*
Key Rollover refers to blocked keys when pressing 2 or more keys at the same time. The most common key rollover is 6KRO due to the USB spec limit which means that 6 keys can be pressed simultaneously along with 4 modifiers such as Ctrl, Alt, Shift, Meta (WinKey), Fn, Home, End, etc.

NKRO (or "N Key Rollover") means that the key rollover is unlimited. This means that there will never be any blocked keys when pressing multiple keys at the same time. Up until recently (as of 3/8/11), true NKRO was only possible through PS/2 (that is, when it's a specified feature of the keyboard). But now there are two USB-only mechanical keyboards that feature true NKRO through USB: the *Noppoo Choc Mini*, and the *Ducky DK-9008-G2*. Unfortunately, the DK-9008-G2 is not available yet (again, as of 3/8/11).

#KRO: where "#" is the amount of key rollover of the keyboard. It generally represents the maximum number of keys that can be pressed simultaneously without having any of them get blocked. For example, some keyboards are strictly 2KRO while most others depend on the "matrix" (which again is the circuit layout on the membrane or PCB) that is described in detail at the bottom of Post #9 (inside of the "hidden text" box).

In addition, many USB-only mechanical keyboards are labeled as 6KRO which again means 6 keys plus 4 modifiers (Ctrl, Shift, Alt, Home, End, Fn, Meta, etc.). Fortunately, this is generally more than enough for most users. Although, a few games may have limitations with the typical 6KRO matrix (e.g. StepMania), but it can also depend on the keyboard due to that matrix layout. But generally, having NKRO is more about the peace of mind than the actual practicality. But obviously, there are some obvious practical reasons to have NKRO.

Finally, there is one rubber dome keyboard out there right now (as of 3/8/11) that has 26KRO, thereby overcoming the USB spec limitation: it's the Microsoft Sidewinder X4. But since this is a mechanical keyboard guide, we won't go into further detail about this keyboard. But it's worth mentioning because it's additional evidence (along with the Noppoo Choc Mini and Ducky DK-9008-G2) that we could be looking at a future where most modern rubber dome keyboards have true NKRO through USB! Or, it may even become standard some day!

*Key Bouncing*
All types of key switches do this, including rubber domes. Key bouncing is when you press a key and the switch "bounces" up and down very quickly as it settles back into place (it happens for a _*very*_ brief moment). This would cause keys to actually register multiple times for each single key press, but manufacturers implement a debouncing delay to prevent that. When you press a key, the controller waits a certain amount of time before registering a keypress. For example, Cherry MX switches need 5ms of debouncing time, while rubber domes need longer (but exactly how long depends on their quality).

*Tator Tot: do you mean that the controller opens up for 5ms or so just like a noise gate in order to only let the intended keystroke signal go through while blocking any of the key-bounce signals? If so, then here's my proposed version for this:*

*Key Bouncing*
All types of key switches do this, including rubber domes. For an extremely brief moment after a keypress, the switch bounces up and down a few times while it is settling back into place This would cause multiple keystrokes to appear for each single key press, but manufacturers implement a "debouncing delay" to block those additional signals sent by the bouncing switch. So it is like a physical gate that opens and closes very quickly when a key is pressed: it stays open for only a very brief moment (such as 5ms) to only let the intended keystroke signal through while hopefully blocking any of those additional signals sent due to the switch settling back into place. In a sense, it's like a digital version of a camera's Shutter. Only this "shutter" needs to close quickly enough to block the extra key signals while staying open long enough to only let that first signal through.

*Polling Rates and Response Times*
This is done through USB, and it's only useful and beneficial for mice. For keyboards, any polling rate over 200Hz (at best) is absolutely useless and so it's nothing but market hype. It may even be a bit detrimental because it would be using CPU cycles in order to constantly poll the keyboard. But PS/2 keyboards (and USB keyboards that function with a USB to PS/2 adapter) aren't polled at all; they simply send the signal to the computer when a key is pressed. This performs what is known as a "hardware interrupt", meaning it forces the computer to register that keystroke the moment it happens.

There are two types of USB transfer modes:

*Interrupt Transfer* (polling)
The USB controller constantly polls the keyboard (it's constantly monitoring it) so that when a key is finally pressed, the USB controller sends the interrupt request.

*Isochronous Transfer*
This reserves a certain amount of bandwidth for the keyboard with a guaranteed latency on the bus. Unfortunately, there are absolutely no keyboards being made today that use this because a special controller has to be used which makes such keyboards very expensive to manufacture.

*So, what's better? PS/2 or USB?*
For keyboards, PS/2 wins on three fronts:

Currently, it is the most common way to get N Key Rollover (but NKRO must be a listed feature of the keyboard). It used to be the only way until the Noppoo Choc Mini and the Ducky DK-9008-G2 came along.
Keyboards connected to the PS/2 port aren't polled; they are completely interrupt-based.
It's possible for a keyboard connected to a USB port to be delayed by other USB devices (such as a mouse).

So if you happen to have a keyboard that supports both PS/2 and USB and if your computer has a purple PS/2 port (the one for keyboards) or even one of those dual purple & green ports, then there's no reason not to use it.





Spoiler: Post #3



*Common Key Switches*

*Introduction* - _A Switch is Not "Just a Switch"_

Generally, most mechanical switches feel better than rubber domes. However, a switch is not "just a switch" (it's possible to be comparing two switches that feel dramatically different from each other). You see, the switch is the heart of any keyboard; it's what dictates its feel and sometimes even its sound. So if you're interested in a mechanical keyboard, then the first step is to decide on the switch type.

Mechanical switches are rated by force using either Grams (g) or Centinewtons (cN). But the proper unit of measurement is Centinewtons (cN) because we're talking about force, not weight. Fortunately, 1g of weight applies about 1cN of downward force which means we can use Grams instead of Centinewtons for the sake of familiarity! So we will use Grams in this guide.

*Cherry MX Blacks*








*Type:* Linear (non-tactile, non-clicky)
*Link:* Datasheet
*Tactile:* No
*Clicky:* No
*Actuation Force:* 60g (40g-80g from the top of the keystroke to the bottom) (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 2mm to actuation, 4mm to bottom
The Cherry MX Blacks are considered by most to be the best mechanical switch for gaming. When gaming, having a tactile response is actually unnecessary because you're going to be bottoming out anyway. So linear switches like the Cherry MX Blacks give you a very smooth feel throughout the entire keystroke from the top of the keystroke all the way to the bottom.

With the Cherry MX Blacks in particular, both the actuation and release points are at the exact same height in the key travel which means double-tapping is never a problem. The stiffer spring in this switch also helps to prevent accidental key presses (like when gaming) due to "fat-fingering".

However, this relative stiffness in combination with the fact that it's a linear switch makes many people consider the Cherry MX Blacks to be the "worst" mechanical switch for typing, comparatively speaking. Although, many still consider it to be superior to rubber domes.

*Cherry MX Browns*








*Type:* Tactile, Non-Clicky
*Link:* Datasheet
*Tactile:* Yes
*Clicky:* No
*Actuation Force:* 45g (55g at the tactile "bump") (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 2mm to actuation, 4mm to bottom
The Cherry MX Browns are considered by many to be the perfect middle-ground between typing and gaming. They have a light tactile feel (or "bump") half-way through the key press which basically lets you know that you pressed the key down far enough to actuate. So this "tactile feedback" gives you an indication that you can feel in your fingers regarding when you can release the switch.

The reason why the Cherry MX Browns are considered by many to be a "middle-ground" is because both the reset and actuation points are close enough together in the key travel that you can "ride" the actuation point. This means that you don't have to release the switch all the way back up in order to double-tap; you can keep the switch pressed down right beneath the tactile bump, "riding" the actuation point.

*
Cherry MX Blues*








*Type:* Tactile and Clicky
*Link:* Datasheet
*Tactile:* Yes; precise
*Clicky:* Yes
*Actuation Force:* 50g (60g at the tactile "bump") (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 2mm to actuation, 4mm to bottom
The Cherry MX Blues are considered by most to be the best switch for typing that Cherry makes. The tactile bump has a precise feel that is almost crisp, and the resistance (actuation force) is similar to the average rubber dome keyboard; but of course, the feel is noticeably quite superior.

But this switch makes it harder to double-tap for some gamers because the release point is above the actuation point (see the Force Diagram). This means that it's nearly impossible to ride the actuation point. Instead, the only real way to double-tap with this switch is to let the switch come all the way back up before the 2nd press (that is, during the double-tap).

So if you are a gamer, then definitely take these things into consideration. However, most casual gamers have no problem double-tapping with the Cherry MX Blues because they simply hit the key two times in a row very quickly anyway (which means that they always fully release the key in between the two keystrokes).

*Cherry MX Clears*








*Type:* Tactile, Non-Clicky
*Link:* Datasheet
*Tactile:* Yes
*Clicky:* No
*Actuation Force:* 55g (65g at the tactile "bump") (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 2mm to actuation, 4mm to bottom
The Cherry MX Clears are often called "stiffer browns", but the tactile "bump" is a bit more pronounced than the Cherry MX Browns. So this can be another "middle-ground" switch. The force required to press the switch down is comparable to most rubber dome keyboards.

*Cherry MX Red Switches*








*Type:* Linear (non-tactile, non-clicky)
*Link:* Datasheet
*Tactile:* No
*Clicky:* No
*Actuation Force:* 45g (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 2mm to actuation, 4mm to bottom
The Cherry MX Reds basically a 45g version of the MX Blacks. And like the Blacks, it can be considered to be good for gaming. However, some people find that this switch is not as good as the Blacks, Browns or Blues for either gaming or typing because they opine that it's too light. But others people consider this one to be the "poor man's Topre". Some keyboard manufacturers even use it for "Special Edition" keyboards.

*Note:* it very difficult to find keyboards with this switch.

*Buckling Springs*








*Type:* Tactile and Clicky
*Link:* Patent
*Tactile:* Yes; very precise
*Clicky:* Yes; loud
*Actuation Force:* 65g-70g (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 2.3mm to actuation, 3.7mm to bottom
The "Buckling Springs" switch type is very simple design: when the point of actuation is reached, the spring buckles under pressure thereby causing the hammer at the bottom to make contact with the membrane sheet which completes a circuit in order to send the keystroke signal. This membrane sheet is basically identical to the type of membrane sheet that is underneath the sheet of rubber domes in a rubber dome keyboard: when the hammer makes contact with the membrane sheet, it's the same as pressing a rubber dome down to make contact with the membrane sheet underneath the big sheet of rubber domes.

The buckling action of the spring provides this switch's tactile feedback along with a satisfying "click!" when it hits the shaft wall. This is also the only mechanical switch where both the tactile and audible feedback happen at the _exact_ moment of actuation. So, it makes for a very precise feeling!

*Note:* "Buckling Spring" keyboards are actually "membrane" keyboards, but we place it in the Mechanical Keyboard category because the switch is very mechanical.

*Black Alps*








*Type*: Tactile, Non-Clicky
*Tactile:* Yes
*Clicky:* No
*Actuation Force:* The "Simplified" model is 60g, and the "Complicated" model is 70g (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 3.5mm
Black Alps are one of the two most common Alps switch types. But many people do not like them because they are stiff, they bottom out hard, and they tend to develop friction in the key travel over time. However, they are still considered by many to be better than rubber dome keyboards.

*Note:* there are two different versions of the Black Alps switch: an older one known as the "Complicated Black Alps", and the newer one known as the "Simplified Black Alps". The "Complicated" version was so named due to the larger number of parts in the switch as compared to the "Simplified" version. The "Simplified" version was manufactured by Alps and some other companies.

The "Complicated" version is common in many older mechanical keyboards, particularly the famous Dell AT101W which is a very common mechanical keyboard from the 1990s.

The most popular Simplified Black Alps switch is made by a company called ***ka (pronounced "Foo-kah") which was used in the ABS M1. The ***ka version of this switch has less resistance, but many claim that its tactility isn't as solid as the Complicated Black Alps.

*White Alps*








*Type*: Tactile and Clicky
*Tactile:* Yes
*Clicky:* Yes
*Actuation Force:* 60g-70g (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 3.5mm
The White Alps switch is one of the most common Alps switch types. These are far more popular than the Black Alps because the tactile response is more pronounced, and some versions even require less force to actuate. But like the Black Alps, it's much easier to bottom out on these in comparison to other mechanical switches.

As with the Black Alps, there are "Complicated" and "Simplified" White Alps. The two most popular Simplified White Alps switches are the ***kas and the XM. The XM is almost universally considered to be a terrible switch; it was used in some older Filco Zero models and some vintage keyboards as well. But the ***ka switch is quite popular, and some people prefer them over the "Complicated" version. The ***ka White Alps are used in some current production keyboards such as today's Filco Zero. The Complicated White Alps were used on some well-made keyboards from the 90s such as the Northgate and Focus keyboards.

There is also a variety of switches that are similar to the White Alps, but of varying quality. Some are considered very pleasant to type on, such as the SMK Montereys. Some even prefer the SMK Montereys over the Cherry MX Blues!

*Topre Capacitive*







(larger image)*
Type:* Tactile, Non-Clicky
*Link*: Patent
*Tactile:* Yes
*Clicky:* No
*Actuation Force:* 30g, 35g, 45g, 55g depending on model (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 4mm
The Topre Capacitive switches are capacitive by nature, and they are basically a hybrid switch between mechanical and rubber dome. This switch type uses a spring underneath a rubber dome (side-view diagram); the depression of the spring causes a change in capacitance between the underlying capacitor pads. So actuation occurs as a result of this change in capacitance.

Topre Capacitive switches are considered by many to be the finest switches available because they offer a very enjoyable typing experience with a much quieter sound, even when bottoming out. These switches also have the smoothest force gradient, even when compared to linear switches like Cherry MX Reds and Blacks!



But I just spent the last several hours on this, so I think I need to take a break.









*Edit:* The Noppoo Choco Mini has proven true NKRO as shown by that common keyboard testing utility everyone here loves. However, I'm not going to spend the time trying to find that post!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12665423*
> 
> *Edit:* The Noppoo Choco Mini has proven true NKRO as shown by that common keyboard testing utility everyone here loves. However, I'm not going to spend the time trying to find that post!


I think Ripster is saying that Microsoft's keyboard will register more then 26 keys, but it gets "real ghosting" after that, where keys you didn't actually press are registered. If that is the case, that test does not prove it's any different then the microsoft rollover over USB.


----------



## ch_123

In order to achieve NKRO, it does something mad and hacky like emulating three separate keyboards. This causes it not to work under Mac OS X.


----------



## jayblast

Hi,

I posted on this forum a couple of pages back to ask for advices and directions (Page 1132 if I recall correctly). Obviously concerning mechanical keyboards.

Anyway, after computing all the elements my mind is now set. I know what I want:

Deck Legend Ice Tactile PS2/PC Windows.

Only problem:
Impossible to buy this from France! (where I live)

1) Deckkeyboards.com sells/ships only to US
2) Still waiting to hear from their Canada resellers, not much hope though
3) European reseller seriously lack some refs (including the one I want of course), and the price tag skyrocketed after the products hoped the atlantic (+85%, not including S/H). I would understand a price bump considering profit margin, taxes and the like, but 185% of the original price?? Are you kidding me?! So with this in mind I'm not really inclined to asking them for the ref I want. To afraid they might be able to get it at even a higher price







.

What are my options? Anyone having to deal with this kind of issues? Only alternative I found so far is a site like ishopUSA.com. But (1) I don't really trust it and (2) price would be even higher than from the European reseller.

Please do help a fellow typer in need,
--Jay


----------



## Crazy9000

Performance PC's ships internationally. They don't gouge the price too bad. They don't have the Ice tactile in stock, but they do have the frost tactile...

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=53_85_233&products_id=26846


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *seesee;12664503*
> I thinking of converting to a Noppoo Choc Mini (Brown) keyboard from a regular keyboard.
> 
> I'm worried about the keyboard layout, is there any learning curves? I am a software programmer, would it reduce my coding efficiency and comfort level?


I would say so, but given a month you should get used it it. I've used keyboards with similar layouts, and no matter what; it's a bit of a pain to get used to at first.

The biggest issue I ran into is I want to throw my pinkys out farther than they needed to be, hitting the edge of the shift and enter keys usually.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayblast;12666236*
> Hi,
> 
> I posted on this forum a couple of pages back to ask for advices and directions (Page 1132 if I recall correctly). Obviously concerning mechanical keyboards.
> 
> Anyway, after computing all the elements my mind is now set. I know what I want:
> 
> Deck Legend Ice Tactile PS2/PC Windows.
> Please do help a fellow typer in need,
> --Jay


My Keyboard, the Frost Tactile is available from Performance PC's who is a trusted PC Parts shop in the US. The LED's are white instead of blue, but personally look the best.


----------



## ripster

TwoCables edit.
Quote:


> Currently, it is the most common way to get N Key Rollover (but NKRO must be a listed feature of the keyboard). It used to be the only way until the Noppoo Choc Mini and the Ducky DK-9008-G2 came along.


Technically I still think the Sidewinder X4 and Microsoft R&D (Paul Dietz and crew) deserves the credit here.

The Chinese came along and cloned it like they always do. And THEN they broke the OSX interface. At least Microsoft made sure their solution was compatible among multiple platforms, OS's, BIOS's and configurations.

Why all the Microsoft hate here? And Apple hate for that matter - that is if you are going to push the Noppoo and Ducky G2 as preferred solutions?


----------



## KipH

Mr. TwoCables usually only writes about the mechanical keyboards. The x4 is a good board and one of the best among non-mechanical. It actually may be my next board if its quiet (thanks to my wife's sensitive ears). But it's place in not in the mechanical keyboard guide


----------



## ch_123

Didn't the Das 3 do it first by emulating the interface of two keyboards, and the functionality of none?


----------



## ripster

Das 3 had 12KRO.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> "The buckling action of the spring provides this switch's tactile feedback along with a satisfying "click!" when it hits the shaft wall."


See here (Wait a little while as the pictures load up, it will jump to the right section when done)

The click comes from the buckling of the spring (this can be shown by getting a buckling spring assembly, a keycap, and pressing them together) In fact, given that the release of a buckling spring key makes more noise than the initial press, some people (myself included) believe that the spring hitting the side has a muffling effect. I think this has been shown somewhat by experimentation.

The acoustics of the keyboard account for a lot of the noise.
Quote:


> This is also the only mechanical switch where both the tactile and audible feedback happen at the exact moment of actuation.


Nope.
Quote:


> Note: "Buckling Spring" keyboards are actually "membrane" keyboards, but we place it in the Mechanical Keyboard category because the switch is very mechanical.


I wouldn't bother including this. The guide should have some brief mention of contact mechanisms. See here for an outline of the more common (or uncommon but interesting) ones.


----------



## jayblast

Argghh, I am doomed.

The frost tactile could have worked, but it's USB, meaning no NKRO unless some serious modding (as advertised on deck's official forum).

Yours,
--Jay


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12668256*
> Das 3 had 12KRO.


True. I wonder why the No Poo needed to emulate three different keyboards to make NKRO work...


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12667886*
> TwoCables edit.
> 
> Technically I still think the Sidewinder X4 and Microsoft R&D (Paul Dietz and crew) deserves the credit here.
> 
> The Chinese came along and cloned it like they always do. And THEN they broke the OSX interface. At least Microsoft made sure their solution was compatible among multiple platforms, OS's, BIOS's and configurations.
> 
> Why all the Microsoft hate here? And Apple hate for that matter - that is if you are going to push the Noppoo and Ducky G2 as preferred solutions?


It's a *Mechanical Keyboard* Guide, not a plain "Keyboard Guide". Why should I start blurring the lines? NKRO is NKRO. It's when there's completely unlimited key rollover. I refuse to let this Guide say that a keyboard has NKRO if it has 26KRO because that is incorrect. Opinions don't matter in this context because we have to deal with facts. That's the purpose of a guide. *The purpose of any good guide does not include causing others to have the same opinions as you.* However, I suppose I could say something like, _"Some people feel that we may as well just say that the Sidewinder X4 has NKRO because no one is ever going to press 26 keys at the same time"_, but that wouldn't benefit anyone.

Regarding my mention of the Noppoo and Ducky: I have been informed that these are currently the only two mechanical keyboards that offer true NKRO (do I really have to say "*true* NKRO" now?) through USB. The Sidewinder X4 does not; it is still just 26KRO.

I want this guide to be as accurate and as educational as possible while not confusing anyone (by doing things like saying, _"Well, it's 26KRO, so that's good enough to call it NKRO in my book")._
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12668376*
> See here (Wait a little while as the pictures load up, it will jump to the right section when done)
> 
> The click comes from the buckling of the spring (this can be shown by getting a buckling spring assembly, a keycap, and pressing them together) In fact, given that the release of a buckling spring key makes more noise than the initial press, some people (myself included) believe that the spring hitting the side has a muffling effect. I think this has been shown somewhat by experimentation.
> 
> The acoustics of the keyboard account for a lot of the noise.


The information in my edit is what I had to work with.







But now I will correct it the next time I am up to it (after I get some sleep between now and then).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12668376*
> Nope.


Again, the information in my edit is what I had to work with.

But can you correct this part for me in your own words?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12668376*
> I wouldn't bother including this. The guide should have some brief mention of contact mechanisms. See here for an outline of the more common (or uncommon but interesting) ones.


The reason why I mentioned it is because I have noticed that the uninitiated/inexperienced people are easily confused when someone calls the Model M a "membrane" keyboard. So this way they will understand *exactly* what the experts are talking about if/when they refer to the Model M as a "membrane" keyboard.

Finally: is Cherry really discontinuing the MX Clears? If so, then I want to provide solid proof in the guide.


----------



## ripster

Well to be specific how about: "The Ducky G2 and Noppoo are NKRO under Windows and Linux and 0KRO under OSX?"


----------



## Farley

The silent version of the Das Keyboard Professional Model S uses Cherry Brown's amirite? I'm considering getting rid of my BlackWidow for it.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12668890*
> Well to be specific how about: "The Ducky G2 and Noppoo are NKRO under Windows and Linux and 0KRO under OSX?"


I won't word it like that, but now I know to say that they aren't compatible with OSX (according to what you're saying).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farley;12669018*
> The silent version of the Das Keyboard Professional Model S uses Cherry Brown's amirite? I'm considering getting rid of my BlackWidow for it.


Indeed. They call it the "Silent" because the Browns are tactile and non-clicky. The Cherry MX Blues are both tactile and clicky.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Again, the information in my edit is what I had to work with.

But can you correct this part for me in your own words?


There's nothing to say on this one. In any click switch design I can think of, the clicking in generated by the tactile mechanism. The clicking may in some cases occur just a little bit after the tactility, but they are generated by the same process either way.

There's the issue of tactility and actuation being separate, which occurs in the Alps and possibly the Cherry MX too. The tactile point of the buckling springs occurs in the same place as the point of actuation. However, this is all very academic as you aren't likely to note it during typing, and thus not worth noting in this guide.

Quote:



The reason why I mentioned it is because I have noticed that the uninitiated/inexperienced people are easily confused when someone calls the Model M a "membrane" keyboard. So this way they will understand *exactly* what the experts are talking about if/when they refer to the Model M as a "membrane" keyboard.


I think there's a danger in addressing the misconception without actually addressing the underlying issue - i.e. people assuming that membrane keyboard is a pseudonym for a rubber dome keyboard because they are unfamiliar with the idea of a contact mechanism.

Quote:



Finally: is Cherry really discontinuing the MX Clears? If so, then I want to provide solid proof in the guide.


See here


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12670645*
> See here


It says in the thread that they are discontinued in Asia and the MOQ from Germany was raised.

So it's still possible for people to get them and boards to be made with them.

More so, I already know of a board in production with Clear's that isn't a Deck.


----------



## ch_123

Oh, I missed that minimum order part. Not sure if Deck (or indeed anyone) is going to be buying in enough of them to meet that minimum though.

Other than Cherry and Deck, I cant think of anyone who made Clear switch keyboards.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12670875*
> Oh, I missed that minimum order part. Not sure if Deck (or indeed anyone) is going to be buying in enough of them to meet that minimum though.
> 
> Other than Cherry and Deck, I cant think of anyone who made Clear switch keyboards.


Ducky used them on a mixed switch keyboard.

I do believe someone else did as well. I know that Deck & Cherry boards were far more common though.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


There's nothing to say on this one. In any click switch design I can think of, the clicking in generated by the tactile mechanism. The clicking may in some cases occur just a little bit after the tactility, but they are generated by the same process either way.

There's the issue of tactility and actuation being separate, which occurs in the Alps and possibly the Cherry MX too. The tactile point of the buckling springs occurs in the same place as the point of actuation. However, this is all very academic as you aren't likely to note it during typing, and thus not worth noting in this guide.


But with the Buckling Springs, do all three occur simultaneously? I mean, does the click, tactile feedback, and the actuation all happen at the exact same time?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


I think there's a danger in addressing the misconception without actually addressing the underlying issue - i.e. people assuming that membrane keyboard is a pseudonym for a rubber dome keyboard because they are unfamiliar with the idea of a contact mechanism.


I'll ask Tator Tot too.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


See here


Oh, I see what's happening now. Thank you!

I had a line in my proposed Edit that said Cherry was discontinuing the Clears, but I removed it in light of this.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But with the Buckling Springs, do all three occur simultaneously? I mean, does the click, tactile feedback, and the actuation all happen at the exact same time?


Yes it does. There may be like a milisecond delay. Though in all practical purposes, it's all at the same time.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I'll ask Tator Tot too.


I don't think I get what the question is?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Yes it does. There may be like a milisecond delay. Though in all practical purposes, it's all at the same time.

I don't think I get what the question is?


Here's my question: should I include this little note below the description of the Buckling Springs?

"Note: "Buckling Spring" keyboards are actually "membrane" keyboards, but we place it in the Mechanical Keyboard category because the switch is very mechanical."

My reason for proposing it is that it seems easy for people who are new to the world of mechanical keyboards to become confused when an expert refers to the Model M as a "membrane" keyboard. So, I want to reduce the chances of such a person becoming confused.


----------



## Tator Tot

I don't think so. It's generally not referred to as a membrane board. And most people when you say an IBM Model M; consider it the _original _mechanical keyboard. 
While that's not true; most people are familiar with the name and nature.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jayblast*


Argghh, I am doomed.

The frost tactile could have worked, but it's USB, meaning no NKRO unless some serious modding (as advertised on deck's official forum).

Yours,
--Jay


It's got 6, would you ever need more then that?


----------



## TwoCables

Then I thank you both, ch_123 and Tator Tot!

Crazy9000: peace of mind, of course.


----------



## Tator Tot

No problem









This guide is turning into a community effort of sorts. Which is always nice.


----------



## TwoCables

I just hope I continue. I still haven't slept yet, but that big pile of laundry I'm doing is much smaller now so I should be able to start heading off to sleep in a couple of hours.







So I mean, I hope to continue my efforts on the guide after I wake up. I would be sleeping now, but I kept playing Crysis.


----------



## Tator Tot

wait wait... people _*play*_ Crysis?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


wait wait... people _*play*_ Crysis?


I'm a sucker for single-player campaigns. So I mean, I never do MP. I'm also a sucker for photo-realistic graphics and fun modern toys like that nanosuit. Plus, I seem to never get tired of hearing things like, _"I find you!"_, "_I kill you for fun!_", _"Where is he?"_, _"You can't hide from me!"_, _"Show yourself!"_, and my personal favorite: _"frush him out!"_


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


But with the Buckling Springs, do all three occur simultaneously? I mean, does the click, tactile feedback, and the actuation all happen at the exact same time?


Yes, but it's not a particularly noteworthy property of the buckling spring mechanism.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


Here's my question: should I include this little note below the description of the Buckling Springs?

"Note: "Buckling Spring" keyboards are actually "membrane" keyboards, but we place it in the Mechanical Keyboard category because the switch is very mechanical."

My reason for proposing it is that it seems easy for people who are new to the world of mechanical keyboards to become confused when an expert refers to the Model M as a "membrane" keyboard. So, I want to reduce the chances of such a person becoming confused.


I see people using membrane as a pseudonym for rubber dome keyboards in general, so I think it would be worth noting in the introduction to Mechanical vs Non Mechanical that this is not accurate, and that a membrane is an electrical contact mechanism that is used in some mechanical switch designs such as Model M style buckling springs, or the Cherry MY.

Your footnote is not likely to alleviate confusion as it doesn't explain what a membrane keyboard is, or how a keyboard can have both mechanical switches and a membrane.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


I'm a sucker for single-player campaigns. So I mean, I never do MP. I'm also a sucker for photo-realistic graphics and fun modern toys like that nanosuit. Plus, I seem to never get tired of hearing things like, _"I find you!"_, "_I kill you for fun!_", _"Where is he?"_, _"You can't hide from me!"_, _"Show yourself!"_, and my personal favorite: _"frush him out!"_


I enjoyed the orignal crysis single player too. Until it got the the aliens, that part was dumb.

I take that to mean I'll hate Crysis 2, lol.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Yes, but it's not a particularly noteworthy property of the buckling spring mechanism.

I see people using membrane as a pseudonym for rubber dome keyboards in general, so I think it would be worth noting in the introduction to Mechanical vs Non Mechanical that this is not accurate, and that a membrane is an electrical contact mechanism that is used in some mechanical switch designs such as Model M style buckling springs, or the Cherry MY.

Your footnote is not likely to alleviate confusion as it doesn't explain what a membrane keyboard is, or how a keyboard can have both mechanical switches and a membrane.


Actually, I'd better take a breather and save myself for tomorrow. I am grateful to your post (and I need it), but I think I bit off more than I can chew for today. lol

So, I'll just vegetate here on OCN until I'm done with that pile of laundry. I still have to shower and eat too. Geez. lol









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I enjoyed the orignal crysis single player too. Until it got the the aliens, that part was dumb.

I take that to mean I'll hate Crysis 2, lol.


Yeah, I agree. I keep trying to enjoy the part with the aliens, but I always end up missing all of that hunting and trickery which leaves me bored. So, I always view that part as a completely separate game and I usually end up quitting as soon as I'm shot back outside. I sometimes even quit right before entering the alien structure thing (so, either right before or right after that elevator falls) or even right after killing the last Nanosuit Koreans inside.


----------



## thiru

http://store.worldjumper.net/en/electronics/peripheral/keyboard-mouse.html

I think this website is new (may not function yet). Has products from Japan including a few Realforces.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

A Final Fantasy XIV keyboard? Lolwut?







Those mouse pads however look... nice.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12678299*
> http://store.worldjumper.net/en/electronics/peripheral/keyboard-mouse.html
> 
> I think this website is new (may not function yet). Has products from Japan including a few Realforces.


A lot more expensive then elitekeyboards for those though... about the same as other places if you want the 30g realforce specifically.


----------



## Tator Tot

It's got some Filco's as well.

The prices are crazy though.


----------



## pLuhhmm

what type of switch is a Zboard?


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pLuhhmm;12678790*
> what type of switch is a Zboard?


Rubber domes, though I think they use a special sort of slider so it feels smooth and is very quiet (it is, too, on the gamepads).


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pLuhhmm;12678790*
> what type of switch is a Zboard?


As Chunky said, it's a dome. Not your typical dome but better than most.

The Steel Series Shift improves on that tech though and is nicer than the Z Board.


----------



## wh-ATI

LOL @ 480 guests because of Gizmodo link.


----------



## Polarity

does anyone know where i can get replacement keys for the
ss 6gv2 :x PM please


----------



## douglatins

What is the best keyboard money can buy? Considering gaming
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wh-ATI;12685430*
> LOL @ 480 guests because of Gizmodo link.


LOL indeed


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *douglatins;12685839*
> What is the best keyboard money can buy? Considering gaming
> 
> LOL indeed


Something Filco. MX Browns work best for gaming.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;12686122*
> Something Filco. MX Browns work best for gaming.


Realforce > FILCO and any cherry switch x10,000,000. In gaming.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;12686122*
> Something Filco. MX Browns work best for gaming.


Filco's are by far not the best for gaming.

If you are going for an MX-Black board right now: Thermaltake Meka G1
If you are going for a MX-Brown or Blue you should look at a Ducky, or Zowie,

Orr a Topre 108B


----------



## bloke226

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;12686122*
> Something Filco. MX Browns work best for gaming.


lol what, wouldn't just give out a blanket statement like that. I could say the same but for MX Blue switches...and I wouldn't just blatantly throw out a Filco unless he doesn't care about price since Leopolds are available for pre-order at an attractive price.


----------



## bloke226

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12686160*
> Filco's are by far not the best for gaming.
> 
> If you are going for an MX-Black board right now: Thermaltake Meka G1
> If you are going for a MX-Brown or Blue you should look at a Ducky, or Zowie,
> 
> Orr a Topre 108B


lol and you're recommending Ducky being better than a Filco?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12686160*
> Filco's are by far not the best for gaming.
> 
> If you are going for an MX-Black board right now: Thermaltake Meka G1
> If you are going for a MX-Brown or Blue you should look at a Ducky, or Zowie,
> 
> Orr a Topre 108B


The 108B-MP is probably close to the perfect keyboard, but the normal all black 55g 103UB that's easy to get in the states from EK does great.


----------



## pLuhhmm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wh-ATI;12685430*
> LOL @ 480 guests because of Gizmodo link.


ROFL, when did this happen?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pLuhhmm;12686234*
> ROFL, when did this happen?


They threw up a Black Widow review and referred people here so they didn't have to explain what the heck a mechanical keyboard is.


----------



## Toransu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thiru;12678299*
> http://store.worldjumper.net/en/electronics/peripheral/keyboard-mouse.html
> 
> I think this website is new (may not function yet). Has products from Japan including a few Realforces.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;12678316*
> A Final Fantasy XIV keyboard? Lolwut?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those mouse pads however look... nice.


LOL, those kinds of mousepads have been pretty popular in Japan lately. They even have ones with male characters on them to appeal to women. (What part of them acts as the "cushion", I'll leave it up to you to wonder, but PM me if you want







)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wh-ATI;12685430*
> LOL @ 480 guests because of Gizmodo link.


Free publicity! Lol, maybe some of the more reputable OCN members should post here now, to lure in some new members.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wh-ATI;12685430*
> LOL @ 480 guests because of Gizmodo link.


To our honored guests let me point out that Jason at Razer lied through his teeth about the Blue Cherries being special. Posted same message in this thread at OCN as well.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12686688*
> To our honored guests let me point out that Jason at Razer lied through his teeth about the Blue Cherries being special. Posted same message in this thread as well.


Yeah that whole post is just a big chunk of BS. Razer never had any respect for me to loose in them though.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bloke226;12686209*
> lol and you're recommending Ducky being better than a Filco?


No, but the build quality is equal between the two when comparing a Majestouch's to the DK9008's.

The DK9008's have more features though. And a specific gaming function; the ability to disable the windows key.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12686215*
> The 108B-MP is probably close to the perfect keyboard, but the normal all black 55g 103UB that's easy to get in the states from EK does great.


That's true, but the 108B-MP is gaming oriented. Still the 103U's are good boards none the less.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12686688*
> To our honored guests let me point out that Jason at Razer lied through his teeth about the Blue Cherries being special. Posted same message in this thread as well.


He lied about most of it. The PCB is stock from iOne; razer doesn't even make the boards themselves, the switches are not special, they went with blues because that's iOne's favorite switch, didn't include NKRO even though other companies use a similar design (*cough* Adesso MKB-135B *cough* ) and have NKRO.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *douglatins;12685839*
> What is the best keyboard money can buy? Considering gaming
> 
> LOL indeed


I would say one of the Realforce boards with the Topre Capacitive switches. But true mechanical keyboard enthusiasts probably know of something even better than that, and we're certainly not talking about a Filco Majestouch or a Ducky board here! Filcos and Duckys in particular are just good "mainstream" mechanical keyboards.

I don't know of anything better than the Realforce boards (like the ones at Elite Keyboards.com) simply because I'm not a true mechanical keyboard enthusiast. I'm just a plain enthusiast because I own one mechanical keyboard which just happens to be a Filco Majestouch Tactile Click.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12686743*
> He lied about most of it. The PCB is stock from iOne; razer doesn't even make the boards themselves, the switches are not special, they went with blues because that's iOne's favorite switch, didn't include NKRO even though other companies use a similar design (*cough* Adesso MKB-135B *cough* ) and have NKRO.


It looks to me like that entire post is marketing hype, and it also sounds like we were right about their reason for choosing the Cherry MX Blues: it's all about the sound. That way, people who are new to mechanical keyboards will be impressed because it clicks. heh


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12688694*
> I would say one of the Realforce boards with the Topre Capacitive switches. But true mechanical keyboard enthusiasts probably know of something even better than that, and we're certainly not talking about a Filco Majestouch or a Ducky board here! Filcos and Duckys in particular are just good "mainstream" mechanical keyboards.
> 
> I don't know of anything better than the Realforce boards (like the ones at Elite Keyboards.com) simply because I'm not a true mechanical keyboard enthusiast. I'm just a plain enthusiast because I own one mechanical keyboard which just happens to be a Filco Majestouch Tactile Click.


For a gaming keyboard, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say there isn't a better board then a Realforce weighted to your preference with ps/2 for NKRO.

For typing I think it's a lot more open to preference, and you can get into buckling springs and "mildly complex maroon alps with a hint of lime". There of course will be some people who dislike the Realforce enough for that to get in the way of gaming, and they'll probably just want to go with some cherry switch.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12689115*
> For a gaming keyboard, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say there isn't a better board then a Realforce weighted to your preference with ps/2 for NKRO.
> 
> For typing I think it's a lot more open to preference, and you can get into buckling springs and "mildly complex maroon alps with a hint of lime". There of course will be some people who dislike the Realforce enough for that to get in the way of gaming, and they'll probably just want to go with some cherry switch.


I thought that the Realforce boards didn't have NKRO, even when connected through a purple USB to PS/2 adapter.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12689267*
> I thought that the Realforce boards didn't have NKRO, even when connected through a purple USB to PS/2 adapter.


They do not function with a USB>ps/2 adapter at all.

If they are native ps/2 like mine, then they can/do have NKRO







.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12689267*
> I thought that the Realforce boards didn't have NKRO, even when connected through a purple USB to PS/2 adapter.


The 108B does.

103U boards are USB only.


----------



## TwoCables

My proposal for the first 5 posts.









*Fact:* Nearly all keyboards sold at retail stores or bundled with computers are rubber dome keyboards (which can also be called "membrane" keyboards). This is the same cheap low-cost design used things in TV remotes and telephones (including cell phones and other mobile devices). So this design is used to maximize profits. Yes, this even includes high-end keyboards like the Logitech G19. So, why settle for something that is essentially no better inside than some generic $5.99 keyboard? Even though something like the G19 looks awesome on the outside, it's still just a rubber dome keyboard on the inside.

*So why should you consider a mechanical keyboard*?

For most people it's all about the feel: they just make you want to type. But with rubber dome keyboards, you have to press the key all the way down to the bottom to get it to register. This wastes a lot of energy and causes fatigue because most of your effort is spent pushing against a solid piece of plastic (this becomes very clear once you experience a good mechanical keyboard).

But mechanical switches are designed so that they register _before_ you bottom out. This means that you don't have to bottom out in order to get a keystroke to register. Plus they use actual springs! So all of this adds up to the keyboard working *with* you, and not _against_ you. Except, this difference is usually only truly understood once a mechanical keyboard is finally experienced first-hand.

In addition, there are several different types of mechanical switches from which to choose! So you can choose which one you think you'd be the most comfortable with because each one has its own feel (and the "clicky" ones add mechanical click sound). But almost all rubber dome keyboards feel the same, generally speaking. Granted, there are differences between many rubber dome keyboards, but the differences are not as noticeable (or as big) as the differences between the various types of mechanical switches.

Finally, most people who try a mechanical keyboard can never go back to using rubber domes because they realize just how "mushy" they really feel. Some people have even reported that their typing speed increased because of their mechanical keyboard. Others report a dramatically increased desire to type which is what we mean when we say that good mechanical keyboards make you want to type!

*Index*: 

Page 1: Terminology
Page 2: Common Switch Types
Page 3: Keycap Plastics and Shape
Page 4: Keycap Printing
Page 5: Modern Mechanical Keyboards
Page 6: List of Mechanical Keyboards by Switch Type
Page 7: Replacement Keycaps and Maintenance
Page 8: Miscellaneous Information and Resources
Page 9: Credits

*
Tator Tot:* what happened to those pictures that showed what the rubber dome-over-membrane looks like as well as what the individual rubber domes look like?

I'm talking particularly about this one:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...tton_Press.JPG

This 1600x1200 image can also be linked for those interested to see the overall usual construction of rubber dome keyboards:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...nstruction.JPG

Unfortunately, this is the only image I could find to show the original type of rubber domes:

http://www.freeopenbook.com/upgradin...ES/18fig05.gif

*Terminology*

*Membrane*
This is what is found underneath the sheet of rubber in a rubber dome keyboard as well as in keyboards with either the Buckling Springs or Cherry MY switches (the sheet of rubber domes is the switch type). This membrane is a bit like a printed circuit board because it contains both the circuitry and the contact areas for where the key circuit intersections get completed upon each keypress for sending keystroke signals. So a "membrane keyboard" cannot function without it. It would be like trying to use a keyboard that isn't connected to the computer.

*Key Blocking** and Ghosting*
Ghosting is when you press two keys on the keyboard, and a 3rd key - which you didn't press - gets sent to the computer as well. This used to be a problem that required true anti-ghosting, but today this is _very rarely_ seen on even the _cheapest _modern boards because now manufacturers simply limit the key rollover in order to prevent ghosting (it's a modern form of anti-ghosting that costs less to implement). So the term "anti-ghosting" is being used incorrectly today.

Key Blocking is as simple as it sounds; if you were to press 3 keys simultaneously but 1 or 2 of those keys don't register, then you just experienced blocked keys. This is dictated by the "matrix" (the circuit layout on the membrane as well as a PCB) which dictates the keyboard's "key rollover", or "KRO".

*Anti-Ghosting*
This is an old term that most of today's manufacturers are now using to describe what we know as "key rollover" (or perhaps "improved key rollover"). For example, Microsoft says that the Sidewinder X4 has Anti-Ghosting for up to 26 simultaneous key presses. But that's not anti-ghosting: it's just 26KRO.

Of course, many other manufacturers (like Razer and Logitech) mention "Anti-Ghosting" too, but they're usually just saying that they have designed the matrix so that we never get blocked keys when using the WASD cluster. It's like saying that their keyboards can seem to have NKRO when using the WASD.

Even Steelseries is doing it: both the 7G and 6Gv2 have NKRO, but they call it "Extreme Anti-Ghosting" instead.

The reason why they are all using this term (even though it's being used incorrectly) is because it sounds cool and therefore it does a better job of selling. It would sound boring if they used the correct terminology because then they couldn't say "Extreme Anti-Ghosting". Perhaps they could use "Extreme Key Rollover", but that obviously doesn't sound as cool and obviously wouldn't sell as easily.

*Key Rollover (#KRO and NKRO)*
Key Rollover refers to blocked keys when pressing 2 or more keys at the same time. The most common key rollover is 6KRO due to the USB spec limit which means that 6 keys can be pressed simultaneously along with 4 modifiers such as Ctrl, Alt, Shift, Meta (WinKey), Fn, Home, End, etc.

NKRO (or "N Key Rollover") means that the key rollover is unlimited. This means that there will never be any blocked keys when pressing multiple keys at the same time. Up until recently (as of 3/8/11), true NKRO was only possible through PS/2 (that is, when it's a specified feature of the keyboard). But now there are two USB-only mechanical keyboards that feature true NKRO through USB: the *Noppoo Choc Mini*, and the *Ducky DK-9008-G2*. Unfortunately, the DK-9008-G2 is not available yet (again, as of 3/8/11). *However, these two keyboards are known to be completely incompatible with Mac OSX.*

#KRO: where "#" is the amount of key rollover of the keyboard. It generally represents the maximum number of keys that can be pressed simultaneously without having any of them get blocked. For example, some keyboards are strictly 2KRO while most others depend on the "matrix" (which again is the circuit layout on the membrane or PCB) that is described in detail at the bottom of Post #9 (inside of the "hidden text" box).

In addition, many USB-only mechanical keyboards are labeled as 6KRO which again means 6 keys plus 4 modifiers (Ctrl, Shift, Alt, Home, End, Fn, Meta, etc.). Fortunately, this is generally more than enough for most users. Although, a few games may have limitations with the typical 6KRO matrix (e.g. StepMania), but it can also depend on the keyboard due to that matrix layout. But generally, having NKRO is more about the peace of mind than the actual practicality. But obviously, there are some obvious practical reasons to have NKRO.

Finally, there is one rubber dome keyboard out there right now (as of 3/8/11) that has 26KRO, thereby overcoming the USB spec limitation: it's the Microsoft Sidewinder X4. But since this is a mechanical keyboard guide, we won't go into further detail about this keyboard. But it's worth mentioning because it's additional evidence (along with the Noppoo Choc Mini and Ducky DK-9008-G2) that we could be looking at a future where most modern rubber dome keyboards have true NKRO through USB! Or, it may even become standard some day!

*Key Bouncing*
All types of key switches do this, including rubber domes. Key bouncing is when you press a key and the switch "bounces" up and down very quickly as it settles back into place (it happens for a _*very*_ brief moment). This would cause keys to actually register multiple times for each single key press, but manufacturers implement a debouncing delay to prevent that. When you press a key, the controller waits a certain amount of time before registering a keypress. For example, Cherry MX switches need 5ms of debouncing time, while rubber domes need longer (but exactly how long depends on their quality).

*Tator Tot: do you mean that the controller opens up for 5ms or so just like a noise gate in order to only let the intended keystroke signal go through while blocking any of the key-bounce signals? If so, then here's my proposed version for this:*

*Key Bouncing*
All types of key switches do this, including rubber domes. For an extremely brief moment after a keypress, the switch bounces up and down a few times while it is settling back into place This would cause multiple keystrokes to appear for each single key press, but manufacturers implement a "debouncing delay" to block those additional signals sent by the bouncing switch. So it is like a physical gate that opens and closes very quickly when a key is pressed: it stays open for only a very brief moment (such as 5ms) to only let the intended keystroke signal through while hopefully blocking any of those additional signals sent due to the switch settling back into place. In a sense, it's like a digital version of a camera's Shutter. Only this "shutter" needs to close quickly enough to block the extra key signals while staying open long enough to only let that first signal through.

*Polling Rates and Response Times*
This is done through USB, and it's only useful and beneficial for mice. For keyboards, any polling rate over 200Hz (at best) is absolutely useless and so it's nothing but market hype. It may even be a bit detrimental because it would be using CPU cycles in order to constantly poll the keyboard. But PS/2 keyboards (and USB keyboards that function with a USB to PS/2 adapter) aren't polled at all; they simply send the signal to the computer when a key is pressed. This performs what is known as a "hardware interrupt", meaning it forces the computer to register that keystroke the moment it happens.

There are two types of USB transfer modes:

*Interrupt Transfer* (polling)
The USB controller constantly polls the keyboard (it's constantly monitoring it) so that when a key is finally pressed, the USB controller sends the interrupt request.

*Isochronous Transfer*
This reserves a certain amount of bandwidth for the keyboard with a guaranteed latency on the bus. Unfortunately, there are absolutely no keyboards being made today that use this because a special controller has to be used which makes such keyboards very expensive to manufacture.

*So, what's better? PS/2 or USB?*
For keyboards, PS/2 wins on three fronts:

Currently, it is the most common way to get N Key Rollover (but NKRO must be a listed feature of the keyboard). It used to be the only way until the Noppoo Choc Mini and the Ducky DK-9008-G2 came along.
Keyboards connected to the PS/2 port aren't polled; they are completely interrupt-based.
It's possible for a keyboard connected to a USB port to be delayed by other USB devices (such as a mouse).

So if you happen to have a keyboard that supports both PS/2 and USB and if your computer has a purple PS/2 port (the one for keyboards) or even one of those dual purple and green ports, then there's no reason not to use it.

*Tator Tot:* I have a question for you in this one that's in red text.

*Common Mechanical Switches*

*Introduction* - _A Switch is Not "Just a Switch"_

Generally, most mechanical switches feel better than rubber domes. However, a switch is not "just a switch" (it's possible to be comparing two switches that feel dramatically different from each other). You see, the switch is the heart of any keyboard; it's what dictates its feel and sometimes even its sound. So if you're interested in a mechanical keyboard, then the first step is to decide on the switch type.

Mechanical switches are rated by force using either Grams (g) or Centinewtons (cN). But the proper unit of measurement is Centinewtons (cN) because we're talking about force, not weight. Fortunately, 1g of weight applies about 1cN of downward force which means we can use Grams instead of Centinewtons for the sake of familiarity! So this guide only uses Grams.

*Cherry MX Blacks*








*Type: *Linear (non-tactile, non-clicky)
*Link:* Datasheet
*Tactile:* No
*Clicky:* No
*Actuation Force:* 60g (40g-80g from the top of the keystroke to the bottom) (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 2mm to actuation, 4mm to bottom


> The Cherry MX Blacks are considered by most to be the best mechanical switch for gaming. When gaming, having a tactile response is actually unnecessary because you're going to be bottoming out anyway. So linear switches like the Cherry MX Blacks give you a very smooth feel throughout the entire keystroke from the top of the keystroke all the way to the bottom.
> 
> With the Cherry MX Blacks in particular, both the actuation and release points are at the exact same height in the key travel which means double-tapping is never a problem. The stiffer spring in this switch also helps to prevent accidental key presses (like when gaming) due to "fat-fingering".
> 
> However, this relative stiffness in combination with the fact that it's a linear switch makes many people consider the Cherry MX Blacks to be the "worst" mechanical switch for typing, comparatively speaking. Although, many still consider it to be superior to rubber domes.


*Cherry MX Browns*








*Type: *Tactile, Non-Clicky
*Link:* Datasheet
*Tactile:* Yes
*Clicky:* No
*Actuation Force:* 45g (55g at the tactile "bump") (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 2mm to actuation, 4mm to bottom


> The Cherry MX Browns are considered by many to be the perfect middle-ground between typing and gaming. They have a light tactile feel (or "bump") half-way through the key press which basically lets you know that you pressed the key down far enough to actuate. So this "tactile feedback" gives you an indication that you can feel in your fingers regarding when you can release the switch.
> 
> The reason why the Cherry MX Browns are considered by many to be a "middle-ground" is because both the reset and actuation points are close enough together in the key travel that you can "ride" the actuation point. This means that you don't have to release the switch all the way back up in order to double-tap; you can keep the switch pressed down right beneath the tactile bump, "riding" the actuation point.


*
Cherry MX Blues*








*Type: *Tactile and Clicky
*Link:* Datasheet
*Tactile:* Yes; precise
*Clicky:* Yes
*Actuation Force:* 50g (60g at the tactile "bump") (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 2mm to actuation, 4mm to bottom


> The Cherry MX Blues are considered by most to be the best switch for typing that Cherry makes. The tactile bump has a precise feel that is almost crisp, and the resistance (actuation force) is similar to the average rubber dome keyboard; but of course, the feel is noticeably quite superior.
> 
> But this switch makes it harder to double-tap for some gamers because the release point is above the actuation point (see the Force Diagram). This means that it's nearly impossible to ride the actuation point. Instead, the only real way to double-tap with this switch is to let the switch come all the way back up before the 2nd press (that is, during the double-tap).
> 
> So if you are a gamer, then definitely take these things into consideration. However, most casual gamers have no problem double-tapping with the Cherry MX Blues because they simply hit the key two times in a row very quickly anyway (which means that they always fully release the key in between the two keystrokes).


*Cherry MX Clears*








*Type: *Tactile, Non-Clicky
*Link:* Datasheet
*Tactile:* Yes
*Clicky:* No
*Actuation Force:* 55g (65g at the tactile "bump") (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 2mm to actuation, 4mm to bottom


> The Cherry MX Clears are often called "stiffer browns", but the tactile "bump" is a bit more pronounced than the Cherry MX Browns. So this can be another "middle-ground" switch. The force required to press the switch down is comparable to most rubber dome keyboards.


*Cherry MX Reds*








*Type: *Linear (non-tactile, non-clicky)
*Link:* Datasheet
*Tactile:* No
*Clicky:* No
*Actuation Force:* 45g (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 2mm to actuation, 4mm to bottom


> The Cherry MX Reds basically a 45g version of the MX Blacks. And like the Blacks, it can be considered to be good for gaming. However, some people find that this switch is not as good as the Blacks, Browns or Blues for either gaming or typing because they opine that it's too light. But others people consider this one to be the "poor man's Topre". Some keyboard manufacturers even use it for "Special Edition" keyboards.
> 
> *Note: *it very difficult to find keyboards with this switch.


*Buckling Springs*








*Type: *Tactile and Clicky
*Link:* Patent
*Tactile:* Yes; very precise
*Clicky:* Yes; loud
*Actuation Force:* 65g-70g (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 2.3mm to actuation, 3.7mm to bottom


> The "Buckling Springs" switch type is very simple design: the buckling action causes the "hammer" at the bottom to make contact with the "membrane" (as described in the Terminology section) which completes a circuit thereby sending the keystroke signal.
> 
> The buckling action of the spring provides both the tactile feedback and the click (which many consider to be a very satisfying sound). Some might say that the click is produced when the spring hits the shaft wall, but the source of the click becomes obvious when the key is released because it makes another loud click on the way back up.
> 
> It's a noisy design, but there are many mechanical keyboard enthusiasts who absolutely love all the sounds that this design makes. Plus, different keyboard designs have different acoustics which directly affects the sound characteristics. For example: the Unicomp SpaceSaver has a different sound than the Unicomp Customizer due to the difference in size on both the outside and inside: the SpaceSaver sounds slightly quieter and the springs seem to ring less.


*Black Alps*








*Type*: Tactile, Non-Clicky
*Tactile:* Yes
*Clicky:* No
*Actuation Force:* The "Simplified" model is 60g, and the "Complicated" model is 70g (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 3.5mm


> Black Alps are one of the two most common Alps switch types. But many people do not like them because they are stiff, they bottom out hard, and they tend to develop friction in the key travel over time. However, they are still considered by many to be better than rubber dome keyboards.
> 
> *Note:* there are two different versions of the Black Alps switch: an older one known as the "Complicated Black Alps", and the newer one known as the "Simplified Black Alps". The "Complicated" version was so named due to the larger number of parts in the switch as compared to the "Simplified" version. The "Simplified" version was manufactured by Alps and some other companies.
> 
> The "Complicated" version is common in many older mechanical keyboards, particularly the famous Dell AT101W which is a very common mechanical keyboard from the 1990s.
> 
> The most popular Simplified Black Alps switch is made by a company called ***ka (pronounced "Foo-kah") which was used in the ABS M1. The ***ka version of this switch has less resistance, but many claim that its tactility isn't as solid as the Complicated Black Alps.


*White Alps*








*Type*: Tactile and Clicky
*Tactile:* Yes
*Clicky:* Yes
*Actuation Force:* 60g-70g (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 3.5mm


> The White Alps switch is one of the most common Alps switch types. These are far more popular than the Black Alps because the tactile response is more pronounced, and some versions even require less force to actuate. But like the Black Alps, it's much easier to bottom out on these in comparison to other mechanical switches.
> 
> As with the Black Alps, there are "Complicated" and "Simplified" White Alps. The two most popular Simplified White Alps switches are the ***kas and the XM. The XM is almost universally considered to be a terrible switch; it was used in some older Filco Zero models and some vintage keyboards as well. But the ***ka switch is quite popular, and some people prefer them over the "Complicated" version. The ***ka White Alps are used in some current production keyboards such as today's Filco Zero. The Complicated White Alps were used on some well-made keyboards from the 90s such as the Northgate and Focus keyboards.
> 
> There is also a variety of switches that are similar to the White Alps, but of varying quality. Some are considered very pleasant to type on, such as the SMK Montereys. Some even prefer the SMK Montereys over the Cherry MX Blues!


*Topre Capacitive*







(larger image)*
Type:* Tactile, Non-Clicky
*Link*: Patent
*Tactile:* Yes
*Clicky:* No
*Actuation Force:* 30g, 35g, 45g, 55g depending on model (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 4mm


> The Topre Capacitive switches are capacitive by nature, and they are basically a hybrid switch between mechanical and rubber dome. This switch type uses a spring underneath a rubber dome (side-view diagram); the depression of the spring causes a change in capacitance between the underlying capacitor pads. So actuation occurs as a result of this change in capacitance.
> 
> Topre Capacitive switches are considered by many to be the finest switches available because they offer a very enjoyable typing experience with a much quieter sound, even when bottoming out. These switches also have the smoothest force gradient, even when compared to linear switches like Cherry MX Reds and Blacks!


Updated! But can we put the Scissor switch back in this list?

*Keycap Plastics and Design*

*Keycap Plastics**:*

The two most common keycap plastics are ABS and PBT. Each has their own price to performance ratio. But in general, keycaps made from PBT are usually a better buy. Here's why:

*PBT Plastic* (Polybutylene Terephthalate)

Can withstand extreme heat up to 150Â°C (302Â°F)
Resistant to solvents, such as common cleaning alcohols
Structurally very strong
Does not "shine" as fast due to wearing down
More solid feel and sound due to heavier weight, which is attractive to many enthusiasts
*ABS Plastic* (Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene)

Solvents, such as common cleaning alcohols cause the plastic to "melt"
Keys develop the aforementioned "shine" faster
Structurally weaker than PBT
Lightweight
To get a better idea of what ABS is like, Legos are made from ABS.

*
Keytop Shapes:*

*Cylindrical* - Almost all of today's keyboards use this shape. The shape is more ergonomic for our fingertips.










*Flat *- Frequently found on laptops and "laptop style" keyboards. These are also found on Point of Sale (aka "POS") keyboards because they can attach replaceable plastic legends on top.









*Note: *most keyboards with this design use the "Scissor" switch type which is a special rubber dome design that has a plastic scissor-action mechanism on top of each dome. The most famous one is found in certain Lenovo Thinkpads and certain separate Lenovo Thinkpad keyboards.

*
Spherical* - This shape is normally found on vintage keyboards and typewriters










*

Overall Design Shapes:*

*Sculpted* (the vast majority of today's keyboards use this design)










This design is meant to be ergonomic.

*Flat*










Pictured is a Deck Legend, but all of Deck's keyboards use this design.

Even though the Sculpted design is intended to be ergonomic, it's still all completely personal preference.

New!

*Keycap Printing Methods

Pad*
This is the type of printing found on 99% of keyboards. It is the cheapest method possible for manufacturers short of leaving the keys blank. Pad Printed letters and graphics are somewhat similar stickers or decals, and it can be felt because of this because the printing is somewhat raised.

Example: (Microsoft Ergo Keyboard)










*Pros:*
Results in a lower selling price
A single key can be multicolored
Can be used on both the top and the sides
*Cons:*
The printing can be felt
Wears out quickly
*Laser Etching*
Laser-etched keys feel a bit "scratchy". The process works best on light-colored keys because the letter _always_ comes out black because the laser literally burns the plastic. So when it's used on black keys, a paint filler is poured into the etching.

Example: (Dell AT101W)










*Pros:*
Doesn't wear out as easily
*Cons:*
The etching can be felt
Slightly blurry
*Dye Sublimation*
Dye Sublimation produces much nicer results than the two printing methods mentioned above. A dye is set into the plastic and then this dye also seeps a tiny bit into the it. So as the plastic starts to wear down from use, the "printing" remains looking like new. Unfortunately, the only companies who still use it are Topre, Cherry Corp, and Unicomp due to the higher manufacturing cost.

Example:










*Pros:*
Very long-lasting (usually for the entire life of the keyboard)
Can't feel the printing
A single key can be multicolored
Can be used on any face of the key, top or side
High visibility
*Cons:*
Higher manufacturing cost resulting in a higher selling price
Can only print letters that are darker than the plastic (for example: no white lettering on black plastic)
*Double-Shot Injection Molding*
With this method, the keycap actually consists of two pieces: the first piece makes up the outside of the keycap with the "printing" cut out of it. The second piece is placed inside of the first piece with the lettering embossed to fit. You can see it in this diagram:










This method of printing results in the highest quality keycaps possible. The edges of the letters are perfectly sharp, and it achieves the highest contrast resulting in the clearest lettering possible. Unfortunately, TG3 Electronics (Deck Keyboards) is the only manufacturer who is still using this method on their keyboards due to the higher manufacturing cost. But fortunately, Fentek and Signature Plastics can create custom using this method.

Example: OCN Keycap









The easiest way to verify if a key is double shot molded is to check  underneath as shown above.

*Pros:*
Never wears out
Perfect edges resulting in ultra sharp letters and characters
Highest contrast and visibility
*Cons:*
Highest ost
Limited to two colors per key
On some very worn keys, the edges can be felt where the two plastics meet
New!

I have to take a break, but I am getting ready to tackle Post #6!


----------



## Crazy9000

We should make sure we have permission to post pictures before going with them, especially with how popular this guide is getting.

Can we steal pics from wikipedia legally?


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Filco's are by far not the best for gaming.

If you are going for an MX-Black board right now: Thermaltake Meka G1 
If you are going for a MX-Brown or Blue you should look at a Ducky, or Zowie,

Orr a Topre 108B


They're probably what most people want though. I know a Filco looks nice. I still prefer my Ducky though


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12690820*
> We should make sure we have permission to post pictures before going with them, especially with how popular this guide is getting.
> 
> Can we steal pics from wikipedia legally?


Then it may be time to request pics from other OCN members. I mean, I can probably take a sideview pic of my Majestouch for the Sculpted pic, but someone else would need to provide a sideview pic of their Deck - and a good one too since this guide is indeed popular.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *douglatins*


What is the best keyboard money can buy?


Purely a matter of preference.

Some are definitely better built or designed than others.

Quote:



I thought that the Realforce boards didn't have NKRO, even when connected through a purple USB to PS/2 adapter.


PS/2 ones do.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


They do not function with a USB>ps/2 adapter at all.

If they are native ps/2 like mine, then they can/do have NKRO







.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


The 108B does.

103U boards are USB only.


Thank you, guys!


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


We should make sure we have permission to post pictures before going with them, especially with how popular this guide is getting.


Gooooooooooooooood idea.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12691202*
> Then it may be time to request pics from other OCN members. I mean, I can probably take a sideview pic of my Majestouch for the Sculpted pic, but someone else would need to provide a sideview pic of their Deck - and a good one too since this guide is indeed popular.


I can provide an autofocus quality pic once my camera charges.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12694259*
> I can provide an autofocus quality pic once my camera charges.


Once you take it, keep the width to 600px and PM it to me then.

As for the Wiki question; Wiki's pictures fall under the CCL, so we can take and alter then ass needed with due credits.

@TwoCables,
For your question:
Yes, your shutter analogy is a good example. Though I think we should leave it as is; or at least sum it up in a better fashion.

The way you put it makes it sound like, in that regard, domes and mechanical switches are equals when they are not. As the mechanical switches noted (Cherry MX type) have less of a delay.

On post #3
Scissor Switches are not mechanical. Also, what updates did you make? Besides the Buckling Springs part, which isn't an accurate reflection at all.

For Post #4
I'll get that section added on overall design.

Post #5
What changes are you suggesting?

Post #1
I removed that as it's excess bloat. Most people have domes in front of them. They can try that; they are familiar with them. They don't need those fine details.

Mechanical Switches are new to them. They need those details.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

PVC is also a common keycap material. Not quite as common on mechanical keyboards, but I've seen it on dozens of rubber dome keyboards. It's also commonly used in the case.

Also, the cleaning section really needs to be better considered, for instance PBT keycaps can be ruined by hot water over 60*C, so putting those in the dishwasher is a bad, bad, bad idea. And there are other flaws.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12694840*
> On post #3
> Scissor Switches are not mechanical. Also, what updates did you make? Besides the Buckling Springs part, which isn't an accurate reflection at all.


Just created a Scissor Switch Wiki here. Lots of pics.

And WHY would anyone pay over $300 for a PS/2 only Realforce 108 in this day and age? I'll go out on a limb and disagree with the ultimate gaming board designation.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12695445*
> Just created a Scissor Switch Wiki here. Lots of pics.
> 
> And WHY would anyone pay over $300 for a PS/2 only Realforce 108 in this day and age? I'll go out on a limb and disagree with the ultimate gaming board designation.


I think you need to take into account we're discussing the "ultimate" gaming board, not a "good" gaming board. Also not discussing price to performance ratio







.

IMO Topre switches are much better for gaming then the Cherry switches. I'll never use my Deck now that I have Realforces. Really the only downside is no macro keys. If you do need macro keys, then maybe there are better keyboards, but you'd have to want the macro's pretty desperately.

If you're looking strictly at keyboard performance, ps/2 has some advantages over USB as well. When we're talking about the "ultimate" keyboard, USB just isn't an option, as it isn't "ultimate". USB is only "good enough".


----------



## ch_123

Now, I don't like to be a grammar Nazi, but... (Quite literally but) when it involves something I wrote magically developing stuff I was told not to do when I was 6 or 7...
Quote:


> Black Alps are one of the two most common Alps switch types. Many people do not like these switches due to the fact that they are stiff, bottom out hard, and tend to develop friction in the travel as they wear. Nonetheless, they are an improvement over most rubber dome keyboards.


Became
Quote:


> Black Alps are one of the two most common Alps switch types. *But* many people do not like them because they are stiff, they bottom out hard, and they tend to develop friction in the key travel over time. However, they are still considered by many to be better than rubber dome keyboards.


"But" at the start of a sentence?


----------



## IEATFISH

"However, many people..."

Do that.


----------



## ch_123

"Nonetheless" also vanished.

I'm very fond of that word.


----------



## IEATFISH

Hmm, didn't see the however down there. What about However and Nevertheless? I like those two.


----------



## ripster

On the other hand?

Legos have a problem with "Thumbs Up"








Watermarks - love it or leave it. Wish mine had been left in the OP.


----------



## candy wrapper

Do you guys think that an relatively old Cherry g80-3000 is worth 60-70$ if its in great condition ? Bear in mind I live in Europe and stuff is expensive as hell here, if I want to order a Filco Majestouch (from a reliable site) Id need to shell out at least around 180$ for it.


----------



## webwit

Spot healing brush FTW.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *candy wrapper;12697130*
> Do you guys think that an relatively old Cherry g80-3000 is worth 60-70$ if its in great condition ? Bear in mind I live in Europe and stuff is expensive as hell here, if I want to order a Filco Majestouch (from a reliable site) Id need to shell out at least around 180$ for it.


You can buy a new Cherry Blue G80-3000 for 60 pounds new if you live in the UK. Follow the links here.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *candy wrapper;12697130*
> Do you guys think that an relatively old Cherry g80-3000 is worth 60-70$ if its in great condition ? Bear in mind I live in Europe and stuff is expensive as hell here, if I want to order a Filco Majestouch (from a reliable site) Id need to shell out at least around 180$ for it.


Depends on the switches. Tactile/clicky Cherry switches don't age well.

European layouts Model Ms are a safer bet.


----------



## SmokinWaffle

Still debating whether to go back to mechanical.

I sold my Rampage III Gene, which puts me back in the game money wise. Might order a Tenkeyless Filco with browns. Thoughts?

I really liked blues, but after my BlackWidow going bad I'm not so sure, although I did like the noise of them. How different, in reality, are Browns to blues?


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12697810*
> Still debating whether to go back to mechanical.
> 
> I sold my Rampage III Gene, which puts me back in the game money wise. Might order a Tenkeyless Filco with browns. Thoughts?
> 
> I really liked blues, but after my BlackWidow going bad I'm not so sure, although I did like the noise of them. How different, in reality, are Browns to blues?


Much different. You get the impression that they're fairly similar because they're both said to be tactile - but the bump is much more pronounced on the blues. I like browns better


----------



## SmokinWaffle

Hmm, well I found the blues perfect for typing, and no issues gaming on them either, and I type a lot more than I game nowadays.

Plus, I do like that loud click. It just seems almost obligatory that I should try another switch, but I don't really want the hassle of buying it, deciding I don't like it, then trying to sell it. Really don't know what to do.

That is unless The Keyboard Co operate some sort of crazy "buy-it-use-it-return-it" returns policy, but I doubt it.


----------



## douglatins

Out of these, which ones should i get?

DAS PRO S
Blackwidow Ultimate
TT Meka G1
DK 9008-BEPLB


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12697941*
> Hmm, well I found the blues perfect for typing, and no issues gaming on them either, and I type a lot more than I game nowadays.
> 
> Plus, I do like that loud click. It just seems almost obligatory that I should try another switch, but I don't really want the hassle of buying it, deciding I don't like it, then trying to sell it. Really don't know what to do.
> 
> That is unless The Keyboard Co operate some sort of crazy "buy-it-use-it-return-it" returns policy, but I doubt it.


If you really like Blues, Browns will more than likely be a let down for you. The tactility has been euphemistically described as "subtle". "Nonexistent" is the word I would use.


----------



## SmokinWaffle

Alright, thanks. I'll go for blues, then.

Now, to get the correct layout (UK/EU) with the proper enter key, or get the lamer US layout, just because I can get it in White. :thinking;


----------



## ch_123

I successfully switched from the UK layout to the US one. I am at a stage that I can switch between them relatively seamlessly, although I tend to end up swearing at computers that use the UK layout when I forget that it isn't the US layout, and get " instead of @.


----------



## SmokinWaffle

Asdfgh, I forgot that those two keys were switched around. That'd piss me off like no tomorrow.









UK it is!

Can you Dye keycaps? I read a guide a while back involving some food colouring (I think) and a frying pan, but is there any other way? I should think food colouring wouldn't be too bright.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12697941*
> Hmm, well I found the blues perfect for typing, and no issues gaming on them either, and I type a lot more than I game nowadays.
> 
> Plus, I do like that loud click. It just seems almost obligatory that I should try another switch, but I don't really want the hassle of buying it, deciding I don't like it, then trying to sell it. Really don't know what to do.
> 
> That is unless The Keyboard Co operate some sort of crazy "buy-it-use-it-return-it" returns policy, but I doubt it.


Late reply, but I agree with ch_123.

If you like the blues, get it. Many people think they are better (for typing anyway). I can't stand the blues, the clicky-ness is annoying to me. That's why I'm going with browns. I think that's one of the main reasons many people buy mx browns TBH.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12698190*
> Alright, thanks. I'll go for blues, then.
> 
> Now, to get the correct layout (UK/EU) with the proper enter key, or get the lamer US layout, just because I can get it in White. :thinking;


Don't get another blackwidow







.

BTW, the US layout IS the correct layout. Everyone knows this. J shaped enter keys are abominations. Vertical ones are nearly as wicked. I believe Obama said something about this during his inaugural speech. That was also part of ancient roman law IIRC.

*edit*
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12698362*
> Asdfgh, I forgot that those two keys were switched around. That'd piss me off like no tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UK it is!
> 
> Can you Dye keycaps? I read a guide a while back involving some food colouring (I think) and a frying pan, but is there any other way? I should think food colouring wouldn't be too bright.


Yes you can, depending on the keys. It was RIT dye. That works for some keyboards. There is also vinyl dye/paint. Use many thin coats. I painted my wasd with that stuff and it has lasted a while (the RIT dye wears off of my keys very quickly).


----------



## SmokinWaffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drjoey1500;12698383*
> I believe Obama said something about this during his inaugural speech.


What's an Obama?


----------



## Xazen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12698417*
> What's an Obama?


Some important leader guy lol


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xazen;12698466*
> Some important leader guy lol


No, I'm pretty sure it's a foot fungus.


----------



## SmokinWaffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12698505*
> No, I'm pretty sure it's a foot fungus.


I thought it was some sort of tropical fruit.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drjoey1500;12698383*
> Late reply, but I agree with ch_123.
> 
> If you like the blues, get it. Many people think they are better (for typing anyway). I can't stand the blues, the clicky-ness is annoying to me. That's why I'm going with browns. I think that's one of the main reasons many people buy mx browns TBH.


Indeed. There are people who prefer the Browns over Blues, but in many cases this is because they have specific issues with the Blues. If you really like the Blues, the next things to try are probably Buckling Springs or clicky Alps. That said, I much prefer Topres over Blue Cherry switches because I find Blue switches toylike.
Quote:


> Can you Dye keycaps? I read a guide a while back involving some food colouring (I think) and a frying pan, but is there any other way? I should think food colouring wouldn't be too bright.


You need some rit dye. You can find guides on Geekhack.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12698543*
> 
> You need some rit dye. You can find guides on Geekhack.


Or you could just use the OCN one. http://www.overclock.net/computer-peripherals/551389-keyboard-dye-customization-guide.html


----------



## Ikrin

Man, I haven't visited this thread in soooo long. Weren't the Leopolds supposed to arrive at EK by the end of January?

I enjoy the noise the blues make. I don't know if I would label them as "toylike", but, I suppose silence speaks for professionalism in some ways.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Leopolds have been delayed twice already from that date; current target is mid to late this month; pre-orders seem to all be filled on the tenkeyless.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;12695276*
> PVC is also a common keycap material. Not quite as common on mechanical keyboards, but I've seen it on dozens of rubber dome keyboards. It's also commonly used in the case.


I'm looking to add both a section on PVC & POM.

As for the cleaning, I'll be updating that as well.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12695445*
> Just created a Scissor Switch Wiki here. Lots of pics.


I may link that towards the end.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12695636*
> Now, I don't like to be a grammar Nazi, but... (Quite literally but) when it involves something I wrote magically developing stuff I was told not to do when I was 6 or 7...
> "But" at the start of a sentence?


I'll get that fixed in a second.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *webwit;12697518*
> Spot healing brush FTW.


I actually just used the original pictures from the Guide.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *douglatins;12698071*
> Out of these, which ones should i get?
> DAS PRO S
> Blackwidow Ultimate
> TT Meka G1
> DK 9008-BEPLB


Ducky > TT Meka G1 > Das Model S Pro > Black Widow

Though if that's the OCN Ducky, it's out of stock right now (restocking underway) so you might as well move onto the Thermaltake Meka G1 or Das Model S Professional.

How are you going to use the keyboard?

Das is MX-Blues or MX-Browns, Thermaltake is Blacks. It's a big difference between the two.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12698565*
> Or you could just use the OCN one. http://www.overclock.net/computer-peripherals/551389-keyboard-dye-customization-guide.html


I'm going to add that to the guide.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikrin;12698682*
> 
> I enjoy the noise the blues make. I don't know if I would label them as "toylike", but, I suppose silence speaks for professionalism in some ways.


Compared to the Topre or a solid buckling spring, I can see what he means.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikrin;12698682*
> I enjoy the noise the blues make. I don't know if I would label them as "toylike", but, I suppose silence speaks for professionalism in some ways.


It's the nature of the sound it makes, and how plasticky it feels.

My favorite switch, the capacitive buckling spring, is the loudest, and most satisfying, of them all. See the Model F clip near the bottom.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12698417*
> What's an Obama?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xazen;12698466*
> Some important leader guy lol


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12698505*
> No, I'm pretty sure it's a foot fungus.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12698540*
> I thought it was some sort of tropical fruit.










. Did you guys even READ my post? That's the problem with forums like this, people reply before reading the OP, people skim something before they reply. Seriously guys, take the 15 seconds it takes to read the _whole_ post.

CLEARLY he's an important ancient roman governor who made the roman laws I was talking about.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;12698696*
> Leopolds have been delayed twice already from that date; current target is mid to late this month; pre-orders seem to all be filled on the tenkeyless.


They added them for pre-order on the 7th I believe. So they did actually have them on the site by march







.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12698739*
> Compared to the Topre or a solid buckling spring, I can see what he means.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12698786*
> It's the nature of the sound it makes, and how plasticky it feels.
> 
> My favorite switch, the capacitive buckling spring, is the loudest, and most satisfying, of them all. See the Model F clip near the bottom.


Yea, I do have to agree that the buckling spring has a rather robust feel. The noise is just too loud for my environment, however. I wish I had the chance to test out a Model F for myself.


----------



## Xazen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12698722*
> 
> Ducky > TT Meka G1 > Das Model S Pro > Black Widow
> 
> Though if that's the OCN Ducky, it's out of stock right now (restocking underway) so you might as well move onto the Thermaltake Meka G1 or Das Model S Professional.


Just out of curiosity what makes you rank the Ducky ahead of the TT Meka G1 ahead of the Das Model S Pro?

I ask because I was debating between the OCN Ducky with MX Browns (when restocked) or the Das Pro Silent as my first mechanical keyboard. My main consideration between the 2 was if I really cared about the media control functions or not.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xazen;12700254*
> Just out of curiosity what makes you rank the Ducky ahead of the TT Meka G1 ahead of the Das Model S Pro?
> 
> I ask because I was debating between the OCN Ducky with MX Browns (when restocked) or the Das Pro Silent as my first mechanical keyboard. My main consideration between the 2 was if I really cared about the media control functions or not.


Price is all.
You could also consider the fact that we have more switch options.

Das + Student Discount = $15 cheaper, but none of the features of the ducky but you do get a USB hub.

Meka G1 is a good board, but it's limited to just MX-Blacks and is $30 more than our Ducky's for the same features + USB & Audio. For the price though, the Meka G1 is a sweet board.

If they added backlighting it could be "the" board for gamers (to a certain extent.)

Basically though, it's a Price vs Features debate since they all have a relatively similar level of build quality just different feature sets.


----------



## ch_123

Speaking of that Thermaltake board, the guide says that it has dye sublimated keys, which is quite some feat given that it is impossible to dye white onto black keycaps.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12695636*
> Now, I don't like to be a grammar Nazi, but... (Quite literally but) when it involves something I wrote magically developing stuff I was told not to do when I was 6 or 7...
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Black Alps are one of the two most common Alps switch types. Many people do not like these switches due to the fact that they are stiff, bottom out hard, and tend to develop friction in the travel as they wear. Nonetheless, they are an improvement over most rubber dome keyboards.
> 
> 
> 
> Became
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Black Alps are one of the two most common Alps switch types. *But* many people do not like them because they are stiff, they bottom out hard, and they tend to develop friction in the key travel over time. However, they are still considered by many to be better than rubber dome keyboards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "But" at the start of a sentence?
Click to expand...

Nice catch! I must've been growing really tired by that point.

I'm doing my best to make my "proposal" edits to be as perfect as possible concerning grammar, spelling, style, etc.

So Tator Tot, when it seems like I didn't make any changes, it's because my changes were subtle in order to improve the readability. In other words, I am asking for blind faith here.


----------



## TwoCables

Here is a revision of my proposal for the first 5 posts.







I fixed every occurrence where I began a sentence with "But" as well as "And". So, thank you for catching that, ch_123!

I also noticed some missing words and other errors. In addition, I improved the readability even more (I went over it word-by-word again).


Spoiler: Post #1



*Fact:* Nearly all keyboards that are either sold at retail stores or bundled with computers are rubber dome keyboards (which can also be called "membrane" keyboards). This is the same cheap low-cost design used in things like TV remotes and modern telephones (including cell phones and other mobile devices). This design is used to maximize profits. Yes, this even includes high-end keyboards like the Logitech G19. So, why settle for something that is essentially no better inside than some generic $5.99 keyboard? Even though something like the G19 looks awesome on the outside, it's still just a rubber dome keyboard on the inside.

*So why should you consider a mechanical keyboard*?
For most people it's all about the feel: mechanical keyboards just make you want to type. With rubber dome keyboards, the key has to be pressed all the way down to the bottom to get it to register. This wastes a lot of energy and causes fatigue because most of your effort is spent pushing down against a solid piece of plastic. The difference between rubber dome and mechanical keyboards becomes very clear once you experience a good mechanical keyboard.

So in contrast, mechanical switches are designed so that they register _before_ bottoming out. This means that you don't have to bottom out in order to get a keystroke to register. Plus they use actual springs (they're spring-loaded)! So all of this makes for a keyboard that works *with* you and not _against_ you.

Unlike the world of rubber dome keyboards, there are several different types of mechanical switches from which to choose! So you can choose which one you think would be the most comfortable for you because each one has its own feel (and the "clicky" ones add a mechanical click sound). By contrast, almost all rubber dome keyboards generally feel the same. Granted, there are noticeable differences between some rubber dome keyboards, but those differences are not as big as the differences between all of the various types of mechanical switches!

Most mechanical keyboards also have a noticeably superior build quality to most rubber dome keyboards. They're usually heavier too which means that the keyboard will likely never move during intense gaming. Additionally, most mechanical keyboards last significantly longer than rubber domes. On average, most rubber dome keyboards last 5-7 years, while some last 7-10 or slightly longer. It mostly depends on the amount of use as well as how hard the owner presses the keys. The contact area between the rubber dome (the molded dome on the sheet of rubber) and the membrane underneath wears out over time which results in some keys either needing to be pressed harder, or they simply stop working regardless of how hard they're pressed. The rubber itself also wears out, gradually losing its fresh springy feel.

However, most mechanical switches last significantly longer and they generally still feel relatively new even after 10-15 years of daily use. Some even last much longer than that, such as the Buckling Springs (like in the famous older IBM Model Ms). So not only do most mechanical keyboards have a superior build quality to most rubber dome keyboards, but the switch itself is more durable in addition to having a superior feel.

So most people who try a mechanical keyboard for the first time say that they will never go back to using rubber domes ever again! There are even people who take their mechanical keyboard to work every day because they can no longer stand using that rubber dome keyboard at work. Some people have even reported that their typing speed increased because of their mechanical keyboard. Others report a dramatically increased desire to type which is what we mean when we say that good mechanical keyboards make you want to type!

*Index*:

Page 1: Terminology
Page 2: Common Switch Types
Page 3: Keycap Plastics and Shape
Page 4: Keycap Printing
Page 5: Modern Mechanical Keyboards
Page 6: List of Mechanical Keyboards by Switch Type
Page 7: Replacement Keycaps and Maintenance
Page 8: Miscellaneous Information and Resources
Page 9: Credits



I still think it would be beneficial to have those images for the purpose of showing rubber dome owners what the inside of their keyboard looks like. It will give them a much better understanding concerning everything this guide is saying.



Spoiler: Terminology



*Terminology*

*Membrane*
This is what is found underneath the sheet of rubber in a rubber dome keyboard as well as in keyboards with either the Buckling Springs or Cherry MY switches (so the sheet of rubber domes is the switch type). This membrane is a bit like a printed circuit board because it contains both the circuitry and the contact areas for where the key circuit intersections get completed upon each keypress for the purpose of sending keystroke signals. So a "membrane keyboard" cannot function without it. It would be like trying to use a keyboard that isn't connected to the computer.

*Key Blocking* *and Ghosting*
Ghosting is when you press two keys on the keyboard, and a 3rd key - which you didn't press - gets sent to the computer as well. This used to be a problem that required true anti-ghosting, but today this is _very rarely_ seen on even the _cheapest_ modern boards because now manufacturers simply limit the key rollover in order to prevent ghosting (it's a modern form of anti-ghosting that costs less to implement). So the term "anti-ghosting" is being used incorrectly today.

Key Blocking is as simple as it sounds; you press 2 or more keys at the same time, and some get blocked. This is dictated by the "matrix" (the circuit layout on the membrane as well as a PCB) which dictates the keyboard's "key rollover", or "KRO".

*Anti-Ghosting*
This is an old term that most of today's manufacturers are now using to describe what we know as "key rollover" (or perhaps "improved key rollover"). For example, Microsoft says that the Sidewinder X4 has Anti-Ghosting for up to 26 simultaneous key presses. However, that's not anti-ghosting: it's just 26KRO.

Of course, many other manufacturers (like Razer and Logitech) mention "Anti-Ghosting" too, but they're usually just saying that they have designed the matrix so that we never get blocked keys when using the WASD cluster. It's like saying that their keyboards can seem to have NKRO when using the WASD.

Even Steelseries is doing it: both the 7G and 6Gv2 have NKRO, but they call it "Extreme Anti-Ghosting" instead.

The reason why they are all using this term (even though it's being used incorrectly) is because it sounds cool and therefore it does a better job of selling. It would sound boring if they used the correct terminology because then they couldn't say "Extreme Anti-Ghosting". Perhaps they could use "Extreme Key Rollover", but that obviously doesn't sound as cool and obviously wouldn't sell as easily.

*Key Rollover (#KRO and NKRO)*
Key Rollover refers to blocked keys when pressing 2 or more keys at the same time. The most common key rollover is 6KRO due to the USB spec limit which means that 6 keys can be pressed simultaneously along with 4 modifiers such as Ctrl, Alt, Shift, Meta (WinKey), Fn, Home, End, etc.

NKRO (or "N Key Rollover") means that the key rollover is completely unlimited. This means that there will never be any blocked keys when pressing multiple keys at the same time.

Up until recently (as of 3/8/11), true NKRO was only possible through PS/2 (but only when it's a specified feature of the keyboard). However, now there are two USB-only mechanical keyboards that feature true NKRO through USB: the *Noppoo Choc Mini*, and the *Ducky DK-9008-G2*. Unfortunately, the DK-9008-G2 is not available yet (again, as of 3/8/11). *However, these two keyboards are known to be completely incompatible with Mac OSX.*

#KRO: where "#" is the amount of key rollover of the keyboard. It generally represents the maximum number of keys that can be pressed simultaneously without having any of them get blocked. For example, some keyboards are strictly 2KRO while most others depend on the "matrix" (which again is the circuit layout on the membrane or PCB) that is described in detail at the bottom of Post #9 (inside of the "hidden text" box).

In addition, many USB-only mechanical keyboards are described as 6KRO which again means 6 keys plus 4 modifiers (Ctrl, Shift, Alt, Home, End, Fn, Meta, etc.). Fortunately, this is generally more than enough for most users, but a few games may have limitations with the typical 6KRO matrix (e.g. StepMania). However, it can also depend on the keyboard due to that matrix layout. So really, having NKRO is generally more about the peace of mind than the actual practicality.

Finally, there is one rubber dome keyboard out there right now (as of 3/8/11) that has 26KRO, thereby overcoming the USB spec limitation: it's the Microsoft Sidewinder X4. However, since this is a mechanical keyboard guide, we won't go into further detail about this keyboard. However, it's still worth mentioning because it's additional evidence (along with the Noppoo Choc Mini and Ducky DK-9008-G2) that we could be looking at a future where most modern rubber dome keyboards have true NKRO through USB! Or, it may even become standard some day!

*Key Bouncing*
All types of key switches do this, including rubber domes. For an extremely brief moment after a keypress, both rubber dome and mechanical switches bounce up and down a few times while settling back into place. This would cause multiple keystrokes to appear for each single key press, but manufacturers implement a "debouncing delay" to block those additional signals sent by the bouncing switch. So it is like a physical gate that opens and closes very quickly when a key is pressed: it stays open for only a very brief moment to only let the intended keystroke signal through while hopefully blocking any of those additional signals sent due to the switch settling back into place. In a sense, it's like a digital version of a camera's Shutter; only this "shutter" needs to close quickly enough to block the extra key signals while staying open long enough to only let that first signal through. Cherry MX switches need about 5ms of time while rubber domes need longer, depending on their quality.

*Polling Rates and Response Times*
This is done through USB, and it's only useful and beneficial for mice. For keyboards, any polling rate over 200Hz (at best) is absolutely useless and so it's nothing but market hype. It may even be a bit detrimental because it would be using CPU cycles in order to constantly poll the keyboard. Now, PS/2 keyboards aren't polled at all (including USB keyboards connected to PS/2 with a USB to PS/2 adapter); they simply send the signal to the computer when a key is pressed. This performs what is known as a "hardware interrupt", meaning it forces the computer to register that keystroke the moment it happens.

There are two types of USB transfer modes:

*Interrupt Transfer* (polling)
The USB controller constantly polls the keyboard (it's constantly monitoring it) so that when a key is pressed, the USB controller turns around and sends an interrupt request. Then the interrupt request gets issued resulting in a sent keystroke signal.

*Isochronous Transfer*
This reserves a certain amount of bandwidth for the keyboard with a guaranteed latency on the bus. Unfortunately, there are absolutely no keyboards being made today that use this because they're very expensive to manufacturer due to needing a special controller.

*So, what's better? PS/2 or USB?*
For keyboards, PS/2 wins on three fronts:

Currently, it is the most common way to get N Key Rollover (but NKRO must be a listed feature of the keyboard). It used to be the only way until the Noppoo Choc Mini and the Ducky DK-9008-G2 came along.
Keyboards connected to the PS/2 port aren't polled; they are completely interrupt-based.
It's possible for a keyboard connected to a USB port to be delayed by other USB devices (such as a mouse).

So if you happen to have a keyboard that supports both PS/2 and USB, and if your computer has a purple PS/2 port (the one for keyboards) or even one of those dual purple and green ports, then there's no reason not to use it!


*Tator Tot:* I updated the Key Bouncing section.



Spoiler: Common Mechanical Switches



*Common Mechanical Switches*

*Introduction* - _A Switch is Not "Just a Switch"_

Generally, most mechanical switches feel better than rubber domes. However, a switch is not "just a switch" (it's possible to be comparing two switches that feel dramatically different from each other). The switch type is the heart of any keyboard; it dictates the feel and sometimes even the sound. So if you're interested in a mechanical keyboard, then the first step is to decide on the switch type.

Mechanical switches are rated by force using either Grams (g) or Centinewtons (cN). However, the proper unit of measurement is Centinewtons (cN) because we're talking about force, not weight. Fortunately, 1g of weight applies about 1cN of downward force which means we can use Grams instead of Centinewtons for the sake of familiarity! So this guide only uses Grams.

*Cherry MX Blacks*








*Type:* Linear (non-tactile, non-clicky)
*Link:* Datasheet
*Tactile:* No
*Clicky:* No
*Actuation Force:* 60g (40g-80g from the top of the keystroke to the bottom) (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 2mm to actuation, 4mm to bottom
The Cherry MX Blacks are considered by most to be the best mechanical switch for gaming. When gaming, having a tactile response is actually unnecessary because you're going to be bottoming out anyway. So linear switches like the Cherry MX Blacks give you a very smooth feel throughout the entire keystroke from the top of the keystroke all the way to the bottom; it's basically just you and the spring.

With the Cherry MX Blacks in particular, both the actuation and release points are at the exact same height in the key travel which means double-tapping is never a problem. The stiffer spring in this switch also helps to prevent accidental key presses (like when gaming) due to "fat-fingering".

However, this relative stiffness in combination with the fact that it's a linear switch makes many people consider the Cherry MX Blacks to be the least desirable mechanical switch for typing in comparison to other mechanical switches. Although, many consider this switch to still be better than rubber domes.

*Cherry MX Browns*








*Type:* Tactile, Non-Clicky
*Link:* Datasheet
*Tactile:* Yes
*Clicky:* No
*Actuation Force:* 45g (55g at the tactile "bump") (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 2mm to actuation, 4mm to bottom
The Cherry MX Browns are considered by many to be the perfect middle-ground between typing and gaming. They have a light tactile feel (or "bump") half-way through the key press which basically lets you know that you pressed the key down far enough to actuate. So this "tactile feedback" gives you an indication that you can feel in your fingers regarding when you can release the switch.

The reason why the Cherry MX Browns are considered by many to be a "middle-ground" is because both the reset and actuation points are close enough together in the key travel that you can "ride" the actuation point. This means that you don't have to release the switch all the way back up in order to double-tap; you can keep the switch pressed down right beneath the tactile bump, thereby "riding" the actuation point.

*
Cherry MX Blues*








*Type:* Tactile and Clicky
*Link:* Datasheet
*Tactile:* Yes; precise
*Clicky:* Yes
*Actuation Force:* 50g (60g at the tactile "bump") (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 2mm to actuation, 4mm to bottom
The Cherry MX Blues are considered by most to be the best switch for typing that Cherry makes. The tactile feedback has a precise feel that is almost crisp, and the resistance (actuation force) is similar to the average rubber dome keyboard; but of course, the feel is noticeably quite superior.

Unfortunately, this switch makes it harder to double-tap for some gamers because the release point is above the actuation point (see the Force Diagram). This means that it's nearly impossible to ride the actuation point. Instead, the only real way to double-tap with this switch is to let the switch come all the way back up before the 2nd press during the double-tap.

So if you are a gamer, then definitely take these things into consideration. However, most casual gamers have no problem double-tapping with the Cherry MX Blues because they simply hit the key two times in a row very quickly anyway (which means that they always fully release the key in between the two keystrokes).

*Cherry MX Clears*








*Type:* Tactile, Non-Clicky
*Link:* Datasheet
*Tactile:* Yes
*Clicky:* No
*Actuation Force:* 55g (65g at the tactile "bump") (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 2mm to actuation, 4mm to bottom
The Cherry MX Clears are often called "stiffer browns", but the tactile "bump" is a bit more pronounced than the Cherry MX Browns. So this can be another "middle-ground" switch. The force required to press the switch down is comparable to most rubber dome keyboards.

It's believed that the spring in this switch is the same spring in the MX Blacks.

*Cherry MX Reds*








*Type:* Linear (non-tactile, non-clicky)
*Link:* Datasheet
*Tactile:* No
*Clicky:* No
*Actuation Force:* 45g (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 2mm to actuation, 4mm to bottom
The Cherry MX Reds are basically a 45g version of the MX Blacks. Like the Blacks, it can be considered to be good for gaming. However, some people find that this switch is not as good for gaming or typing as the other MX switches because they feel that it's too light. However, other people consider this one to be the "poor man's Topre". Some keyboard manufacturers even use it for "Special Edition" keyboards.

*Note:* it very difficult to find keyboards with this switch.

*Buckling Springs*








*Type:* Tactile and Clicky
*Link:* Patent
*Tactile:* Yes; very precise
*Clicky:* Yes; loud
*Actuation Force:* 65g-70g (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 2.3mm to actuation, 3.7mm to bottom
The "Buckling Springs" switch type is very simple design: the buckling action causes the "hammer" at the bottom to make contact with the "membrane" (as described in the Terminology section) which completes a circuit thereby sending the keystroke signal.

The buckling action of the spring provides both the tactile feedback as well as the click (which many consider to be a very satisfying sound). Some might say that the click is produced when the spring hits the shaft wall, but the source of the click becomes obvious when the key is released because it makes another loud click on the way back up.

It's a noisy design, but there are many mechanical keyboard enthusiasts who absolutely love all the sounds that this design makes. Plus, different keyboard designs naturally have different acoustics which directly affects the character of the sound. For example: the Unicomp SpaceSaver has a different sound than the Unicomp Customizer due to the difference in size on both the outside and inside: the SpaceSaver sounds slightly quieter and the springs seem to ring less.

*Black Alps*








*Type*: Tactile, Non-Clicky
*Tactile:* Yes
*Clicky:* No
*Actuation Force:* The "Simplified" model is 60g, and the "Complicated" model is 70g (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 3.5mm
Black Alps are one of the two most common Alps switch types. However, many people do not like them because they are stiff, they bottom out hard, and they tend to develop friction in the key travel over time. However, they are still considered by many to be better than rubber dome keyboards.

*Note:* there are two different versions of the Black Alps: an older one known as the "Complicated Black Alps", and a relatively newer one known as the "Simplified Black Alps". The "Complicated" version was so named due to the larger number of parts in the switch as compared to the "Simplified" version. The "Simplified" version was manufactured by Alps and some other companies.

The "Complicated" version is common in many older mechanical keyboards, particularly the famous Dell AT101W which is a very popular mechanical keyboard that came out of the 1990s.

The most popular Simplified Black Alps switch is made by a company called ***ka (pronounced "Foo-kah") which was used in the ABS M1. The ***ka version of this switch has less resistance, but many claim that its tactility isn't as solid as the Complicated Black Alps.

*White Alps*








*Type*: Tactile and Clicky
*Tactile:* Yes
*Clicky:* Yes
*Actuation Force:* 60g-70g (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 3.5mm
The White Alps switch is one of the most common Alps switches. These are far more popular than the Black Alps because the tactile response is more pronounced, and some versions even require less force to actuate. Unfortunately, this switch is like the Black Alps in that it's much easier to bottom out on these in comparison to other mechanical switches.

As with the Black Alps, there are "Complicated" and "Simplified" White Alps. The two most popular Simplified White Alps switches are the ***kas and the XM. The XM is almost universally considered to be a terrible switch; it was used in some older Filco Zero models and some vintage keyboards as well. However, the ***ka switch is quite popular and some people prefer it over the "Complicated" version. The ***ka White Alps are used in some current-production keyboards such as today's Filco Zero. The Complicated White Alps were used on some well-made keyboards from the 90s such as the Northgate and Focus keyboards.

There is also a variety of switches that are similar to the White Alps, but have a varying quality. Some are considered very pleasant to type on, such as the SMK Montereys. Some even prefer the SMK Montereys over the Cherry MX Blues!

*Topre Capacitive*







(larger image)*
Type:* Tactile, Non-Clicky
*Link*: Patent
*Tactile:* Yes
*Clicky:* No
*Actuation Force:* 30g, 35g, 45g, 55g depending on model (Force Diagram)
*Key Travel:* 4mm
The Topre Capacitive switches are capacitive by nature, and they are basically a hybrid switch between mechanical and rubber dome. This switch type uses a spring underneath a rubber dome (alternative side-view diagram); the depression of the spring causes a change in capacitance between the underlying capacitor pads. So actuation occurs as a result of this change in capacitance.

Topre Capacitive switches are considered by many to be the finest switches available because they offer a very enjoyable typing experience with a much quieter sound, even when bottoming out. These switches also have the smoothest force gradient, even when compared to linear switches like Cherry MX Reds and Blacks!


I still think the scissor switches should be included because it has a mechanical design element. I mean, I think that it's technically a "mechanical" switch due to the mechanical scissor action.



Spoiler: Keycap Plastics and Design



*Keycap Plastics and Design*

*Keycap Plastics**:*

The two most common keycap plastics are ABS and PBT. Each has their own price-to-performance ratio. Although in general, keycaps made from PBT are usually a better buy. Here's why:

*PBT Plastic* (Polybutylene Terephthalate)

Can withstand extreme heat up to 150°C (302°F)
Resistant to solvents, such as common cleaning alcohols
Structurally very strong
Does not "shine" as fast due to wearing down
More solid feel and sound due to heavier weight, which is attractive to many enthusiasts
*ABS Plastic* (Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene)

Solvents, such as common cleaning alcohols cause the plastic to "melt"
Keys develop the aforementioned "shine" faster
Structurally weaker than PBT
Lightweight

ABS is also used to make Legos®.

*
Keytop Shapes:*

*Cylindrical* - Almost all of today's keyboards use this shape. The shape is more ergonomic for our fingertips.










*Flat* - Frequently found on laptops and "laptop style" keyboards. These are also found on Point of Sale (aka "POS") keyboards because they can attach replaceable plastic legends on top.









*Note:* most keyboards with this design use the "Scissor" switch type which is a special rubber dome design that has a plastic scissor-action mechanism on top of each dome. The most famous one is found in certain Lenovo Thinkpads and certain separate Lenovo Thinkpad keyboards. It's also found in Logitech boards that have the *PerfectStroke™ key system*.

*

Spherical* - This shape is normally found on vintage keyboards and typewriters










*

Overall Design Shapes:*

*Sculpted* (the vast majority of today's keyboards use this design)










This design is meant to be ergonomic.

*Flat*










Pictured is a Deck Legend, but all of Deck's keyboards use this design.

Even though the Sculpted design is intended to be ergonomic, it's still all completely personal preference.





Spoiler: Keycap Printing Methods



*Keycap Printing Methods

Pad*
This type of printing is found on almost all of today's keyboards. It is the cheapest method possible to manufacturer (short of leaving the keys blank). Pad-printed letters and graphics are somewhat similar stickers or decals, and it can be felt because the the printing is somewhat raised.

Example: (Microsoft Ergo Keyboard)










*Pros:*

Results in a lower selling price
A single key can be multicolored
Can be used on both the top and the sides
*Cons:*

The printing can be felt
Wears out quickly

*Laser Etching*
Laser-etched keys feel a bit "scratchy". The process works best on light-colored keys because the letter _always_ comes out black because the laser literally burns the plastic. So when it's used on black keys, a paint filler is poured into the etching.

Example: (Dell AT101W)










*Pros:*

Doesn't wear out as easily
*Cons:*

The etching can be felt
Slightly blurry

*Dye Sublimation*
Dye Sublimation produces much nicer results than the two printing methods mentioned above. A dye is set into the plastic and then this dye also seeps a few microns into the plastic. So as the plastic starts to wear down from use, the "printing" remains looking like new. Unfortunately, the only companies who still use it are Topre, Cherry Corp, and Unicomp due to the higher manufacturing cost.

Example:










*Pros:*

Very long-lasting (usually for the entire life of the keyboard)
Can't feel the printing
A single key can be multicolored
Can be used on any face of the key, top or side
High visibility
*Cons:*

Higher manufacturing cost
Higher selling price
Can only print letters that are darker than the plastic (for example: no white lettering on black plastic)

*Double-Shot Injection Molding*
With this method, the keycap actually consists of two pieces: the first piece makes up the outside of the keycap with the "printing" cut out of it. The second piece is placed inside of the first piece with the lettering embossed to fit. You can see it in this diagram:










This method results in the highest quality keycaps possible. The edges of the letters are perfectly sharp, and it achieves the highest contrast resulting in the clearest lettering possible. Unfortunately, TG3 Electronics (Deck Keyboards) is the only manufacturer who is still using this method on their keyboards due to the higher manufacturing cost. Although, Fentek and Signature Plastics can create custom keycaps using this method.

Example: OCN Keycap









The easiest way to verify if a key is double shot molded is to check underneath as shown above.

*Pros:*

Never wears out
Perfect edges resulting in ultra sharp letters and characters
Highest contrast and visibility
*Cons:*

Highest cost
Limited to two colors per key
On some very worn keys, the edges can be felt where the two plastics meet




Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12694840*
> Once you take it, keep the width to 600px and PM it to me then.
> 
> As for the Wiki question; Wiki's pictures fall under the CCL, so we can take and alter then ass needed with due credits.
> 
> @TwoCables,
> For your question:
> Yes, your shutter analogy is a good example. Though I think we should leave it as is; or at least sum it up in a better fashion.
> 
> The way you put it makes it sound like, in that regard, domes and mechanical switches are equals when they are not. As the mechanical switches noted (Cherry MX type) have less of a delay.


I updated it.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12694840*
> On post #3
> Scissor Switches are not mechanical. Also, what updates did you make?


Both small and major changes to the readability in regards to all rules of English. My goal is to make it _perfect_. So, I'm asking for blind faith.







I mean, it would take me 2-3 times longer just to highlight all of my changes in addition to _making_ those changes.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12694840*
> Besides the Buckling Springs part, which isn't an accurate reflection at all.


Then what *is* an accurate reflection? I changed it based on recommendations from other regular visitors to this thread (I was corrected regarding what makes the click).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12694840*
> For Post #4
> I'll get that section added on overall design.
> 
> Post #5
> What changes are you suggesting?
> 
> Post #1
> I removed that as it's excess bloat. Most people have domes in front of them. They can try that; they are familiar with them. They don't need those fine details.


It seems to me that most people are afraid to take their rubber dome keyboards apart. So including these pictures emphasizes the internal differences between the rubber dome and mechanical switch technologies. The result is that people understand why rubber dome keyboards are cheaper to make and why they all feel basically the same. They also end up with a clearer understanding when they see either rubber dome keyboards mentioned, or just the switch technology itself.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12694840*
> Mechanical Switches are new to them. They need those details.


I didn't know what the inside of my rubber dome keyboards looked like until I saw this thread. It wasn't because I took my keyboard apart, but it was because of the pictures. It also enabled me to understand the differences rather than just relying on text. After all, a picture is worth a thousand words.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

If you're going to have pictures of the inside of a rubber dome keyboard, at least use a picture of a representative design. That graphite on rubber dome over PCB design is extremely rare.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;12704952*
> If you're going to have pictures of the inside of a rubber dome keyboard, at least use a picture of a representative design. That graphite on rubber dome over PCB design is extremely rare.


I don't know which picture you're talking about. Can you show me?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;12704952*
> If you're going to have pictures of the inside of a rubber dome keyboard, at least use a picture of a representative design. That graphite on rubber dome over PCB design is extremely rare.


Quite common in console controllers and handheld consoles like the Nintendo DS (was helping a friend fix one of those things yesterday... never again)

For computer keyboards? Yes, very rare indeed.
Quote:


> (Dye sub section)
> Higher manufacturing cost
> Higher selling price


Superfluous duplication of information is superfluous.
Quote:


> For example: the Unicomp SpaceSaver has a different sound than the Unicomp Customizer due to the difference in size on both the outside and inside: the SpaceSaver sounds slightly quieter and the springs seem to ring less.


Is this for definite?

Quick experiment with one of my Model Ms suggests that what sort of casing it is in doesn't have any noteworthy impact on the noise generated.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12705195*
> Quite common in console controllers and handheld consoles like the Nintendo DS (was helping a friend fix one of those things yesterday... never again)
> 
> For computer keyboards? Yes, very rare indeed.
> 
> Superfluous duplication of information is superfluous.


Thank you, I guess.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12705195*
> Is this for definite?
> 
> Quick experiment with one of my Model Ms suggests that what sort of casing it is in doesn't have any noteworthy impact on the noise generated.


I'm only going by what I saw and actually heard at GeekHack; the smaller one had less spring ring.


----------



## ch_123

There's a huge number of variables in what a buckling spring keyboard is going to sound like. In general, they're all the same thing, but there are minor variances from board to board, and across the age and condition in which the keyboard is in.

Buckling spring keyboards are funny things, and people have jumped to various conclusions about things like sound, feel and build quality of different generations and types of buckling spring keyboard. In general, it's best to not read into these things too much.
Quote:


> Ghosting is when you press two keys on the keyboard, and a 3rd key - which you didn't press - gets sent to the computer as well. This used to be a problem that required true anti-ghosting, but today this is very rarely seen on even the cheapest modern boards because now manufacturers simply limit the key rollover in order to prevent ghosting (it's a modern form of anti-ghosting that costs less to implement). So the term "anti-ghosting" is being used incorrectly today.
> 
> Key Blocking is as simple as it sounds; you press 2 or more keys at the same time, and some get blocked. This is dictated by the "matrix" (the circuit layout on the membrane as well as a PCB) which dictates the keyboard's "key rollover", or "KRO".


As far as I know, the only way to anti-ghost is to either make it NKRO, or to make it block. If I am wrong, I would like to know.
Quote:


> (Flat keys)
> 
> The most famous one is found in certain Lenovo Thinkpads and certain separate Lenovo Thinkpad keyboards.


I'm not sure if there are any external Thinkpad keyboards with chiclet keys. Only the low end X100/X120 has flat keys, all the rest have sculpted ones.

I would have imagined that Apple's Aluminium keyboard is the most famous flat keyboard.


----------



## TwoCables

I need a break.










Spoiler: Post #6: Mechanical Keyboards



*Mechanical Keyboards*

This is just a small selection of common and not-so-common mechanical keyboards that are available in the U.S (and a few that are available outside the U.S.). So this list is not intended to represent the best of the best, nor is it intended to be a list of recommendations. It's just here to hopefully give you the best start possible in your search for a mechanical keyboard.

*Ducky Overclock.net Edition DK9008*
*








Link*: Overclock.net
 *Price:* $110 + SH ($140 + SH for the "Special Edition")
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Blues or Cherry MX Browns
*Switch Mounting:* Metal Plate
*Keycap Printing:* Pad (standard) Laser-Etched and dye-filled (Special Edition)
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape*: Sculpted
*Interface:* USB or PS/2 (includes a USB to PS/2 adapter)
*Key Rollover:* NKRO with the USB to PS/2 adapter, "6KRO" without
*Layout:* US ANSI
*Extra Features:* Detachable USB cable, Fn media keys, swappable Caps Lock and Ctrl keys, Windows Keys disable, 4 macro keys, swappable Windows Key and Alt keys
*Drawbacks:* Not available in Cherry MX Blacks

*Unicomp Customizer 104/105*
















*Link:* Unicomp Store
 *Price:* $69 - $99
*Switch Type:* Buckling Springs (60-65g)
*Switch Mounting:* Steel Plate Backed
*Keycap Printing:* Dye Sublimated
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* PS/2 or USB (specified when ordering)
*Key Rollover:* 2KRO only (IBM matrix)
*Layout:* US ANSI
*Extra Features:* Trackball, Terminal, Point of Sale, & Trackpoint versions available
*Other Models:* SpaceSaver 104/105, Customizer 102/103 Pearl White, Customizer 101, On-The-Ball 103/104, On-The-Ball 101, On-The-Stick, Point of Sale, and 122 Key Terminal/Emulator. Linux layout models available here (Customers and SpaceSavers only). There are also blank keycaps available at checkout.

*Das Model S*








*Link:* Das Keyboard
*Price:* $129-$135
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Blues (Professional, Ultimate), Cherry MX Browns (Professional Silent, Ultimate Silent)
*Switch Mounting:* Metal Plate
*Keycap Printing:* Laser-etched (Professional, Professional Silent), Blank (Ultimate, Ultimate Silent)
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB or PS/2 (includes a USB to PS/2 adapter)
*Key Rollover:* NKRO with the USB to PS/2 adapter, "6KRO" without
*Layout:* US ANSI
*Extra Features:* 2-port USB hub
*Drawbacks:* Shiny case attracts fingerprints, USB hub requires separate USB port on your computer

*Rosewill RK-9000*








*Link:* Newegg | Rosewill.com
*Price:* $100
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Blues
*Switch Mounting:* Red Metal Plate
*Keycap Printing:* Pad
*Key Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB or PS/2 (adapter not included)
*Key Rollover:* NKRO with a purple USB to PS/2 adapter, "6KRO" without
*Layout:* US ANSI
*Extra Features:* None
*Drawbacks:* No included USB to PS/2 adapter.
*Other:* Red plate under keys looks sharp in normal light.

*SIIG JK-US0112-S1*








*Link:* Newegg
*Price:* $70-80
*Switch Type:* White Alps (***kas)
*Switch Mounting:* Metal Plate
*Keycap Printing:* Pad*
Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB or PS/2 (includes a USB to PS/2 adapter)
*Rollover:* 2KRO only
*Layout:* Modified ANSI Layout
*Extra Features:* None
*Drawbacks:* Switches are susceptible to getting dirt in them which can cause problems
*Other:* Lifetime Warranty

*ZOWIE Gear CELERITAS*








*Link:* Newegg
*Price:* $120
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Browns
*Switch Mounting:* Metal Plate
*Keycap Printing:* Pad
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB or PS/2 (USB to PS/2 adapter included)
*Rollover:* NKRO with the USB to PS/2 adapter, "6KRO" without
*Layout:* Modified ANSI Layout
*Extra Features:* Multimedia Keys, Swappable Windows and Ctrl keys, Real Time Response function (which only works through PS/2)
*Drawbacks:* The "Real Time Response" isn't available through USB
*Other:* Reported to have Nylon keycaps, meaning that durability may be a concern.

*Deck Legend*








*Link:* Deck Keyboards*
Price:* $149-$176
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Blacks with MX Grey for the Spacebar, or Cherry MX Clears (Linear or Tactile)
*Switch Mounting:* Metal Plate
*Keycap Printing:* Dye Sublimation
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Flat
*Interface:* PS/2 or USB (specified when ordering)
*Rollover:* NKRO with PS/2 interface
*Layout:* US ANSI
*Extra Features:* Backlit using a single industrial-grade LED on each switch with controllable brightness. Individual controllable brightness for the Caps/Num/Scroll Lock LEDs as well.
*Drawbacks:* Requires the addition/removal of a resistor on the controller PCB to switch between USB and PS/2 (which is why the choice is made when ordering). This keyboard is also larger than other mechanicals due to the body.
*Other:* The warranty allows for modding, and they even encourage it. Deck is a subsidiary of TG3 Electronics who also makes their own mechanical keyboards.

*Deck 82*








*Link:* Deck Keyboards
*Price:* $119
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Blacks
*Switch Mounting:* PCB
*Keycap Printing:* Dye Sublimated
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Flat
*Interface:* USB or PS/2 (does not include a USB to PS/2 adapter)
*Rollover:* NKRO through PS/2
*Layout:* Tenkeyless Modified US ANSI
*Extra Features:* Backlit using a single industrial grade LED on each switch with controllable brightness
*Drawbacks:* Requires the addition/removal of a resistor on the controller PCB to switch between USB and PS/2. Blue ("Ice") is the only available LED color.
*Other:* The warranty allows for modding, and they even encourage it. Deck is a subsidiary of TG3 Electronics who also makes their own mechanical keyboards.
*

Thermaltake Meka G1*








*Link:* Newegg
*Price:* $130
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Blacks
*Switch Mounting:* Metal Plate
*Keycap Printing:* Dye Sublimated
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB or PS/2 (includes a USB to PS/2 adapter)
*Rollover:* NKRO with the USB to PS/2 adapter, "6KRO" without
*Layout:* US ANSI
*Extra Features:* 2-port USB hub, pass-through 3.5mm headphone and microphone jacks, detachable wrist wrest, multimedia keys using the Fn key
*Drawbacks:* Its cable is extremely thick due to housing four separate cables inside.
*Other:* 1000hz polling not known to benefit the board in anyway.

*Filco Majestouch*








*Link:* http://www.amazon.com/Filco-Majestouch-Tactile-Action-Keyboard/dp/B004GDYMO2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&m=A104717BI2VJF7&s=generic&qid=1299955274&sr=1-2] Amazon.com[/URL]
*Price:* $119
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Browns
*Switch Mounting:* Metal Plate
*Keycap Printing:* Pad
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB or PS/2 (includes a USB to PS/2 adapter)
*Rollover:* 6KRO (NKRO is not available for this specific model in the link, even when using the included adapter. The NKRO models are more expensive)
*Layout:* US ANSI
*Extra Features:* None
*Drawbacks:* Not available in the US right now. Increasingly difficult to find in general

*Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless*








*Link:* Amazon.com
 *Price:* $164
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Reds, Browns and Blacks
*Switch Mounting:* Metal Plate
*Keycap Printing:* Pad
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB or PS/2 (includes a USB to PS/2 adapter)
*Rollover:* NKRO with the USB to PS/2 adapter, "6KRO" without
*Layout:* US ANSI
*Extra Features:* None
*Drawbacks:* Pricey for what is offered. Reported to be a limited edition.
*Other:* http://www.amazon.com/Majestouch-2-Tenkeyless-NKR-ASCII-Switch/dp/B004OX7R28/]Cherry MX Reds[/URL], http://www.amazon.com/Majestouch-Tenkeyless-Tactile-Action-Keyboard/dp/B00304DCMG/]Cherry MX Browns[/URL], http://www.amazon.com/Majestouch-Tenkeyless-Linear-Action-Keyboard/dp/B003047ZWY/]Cherry MX Blacks[/URL]

*Leopold FC200R*








*Link:* EliteKeyboards
 *Price:* $99
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Browns (Tactile Touch) or Cherry MX Blues (Tactile Click)
*Switch Mounting:* Metal Plate
*Keycap Printing:* Laser-etched with white infill ABS. Also available with blank keys ("Otaku").
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB or PS/2 (includes a USB to PS/2 adapter)
*Rollover:* NKRO with the USB to PS/2 adapter, "6KRO" without
*Layout:* US ANSI
*Extra Features:* Detachable USB cable
*Drawbacks:* Currently, only Tenkeyless models are available

*iOne Scorpius M10*








*Link:* http://www.max-geek-llc-amazonwebstore.com
*Price:* $59
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Blues
*Switch Mounting:* Metal Plate
*Keycap Printing:* Laser-etched
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB only
*Rollover:* 2KRO only
*Layout:* US ANSI
*Extra Features:* None
*Drawbacks:* Relatively cheap construction
*Other:* Older keyboards have soldering problems, so avoid buying used.

*Steelseries 7G*








*Link:* Newegg.com
*Price:* $139
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Blacks
*Switch Mounting:* Metal Plate
*Keycap Printing:* Laser-etched
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB or PS/2 (includes a USB to PS/2 adapter)
*Rollover:* NKRO with the USB to PS/2 adapter, "6KRO" without
*Layout:* Very modified US ANSI (see photos)
*Extra Features:* USB hub, pass-through 3.5mm headphone and microphone jacks, detachable wrist rest (which is more like a frame than anything)

*Steelseries 6Gv2*








*Link:* Newegg
*Price:* $89-$100
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Blacks
*Switch Mounting:* Metal Plate
*Keycap Printing:* Laser-etched
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB or PS/2 (includes a USB to PS/2 adapter)
*Rollover:* NKRO with the USB to PS/2 adapter, "6KRO" without
*Layout:* Modified US ANSI

*ACK-6600*








*Link:* SmartKeyboard Sales
*Price:* $65
*Switch Type:* White Alps (***kas)
*Switch Mounting:* Metal Plate
*Keycap Printing:* Laser-etched
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB, PS/2, or IBM AT (it looks like adapters are not included)
*Rollover:* 2KRO only
*Layout:* Modified US ANSI

*DSI Big Font*








*Link:* DSI Store
*Price:* $45
*Switch Type:* Yellow Alps (XM) (Linear)
*Switch Mounting:* Plate
*Keycap Printing:* Pad Printed
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* PS/2 and USB (adapter not included)
*Rollover:* 2KRO only
*Layout:* Modified US ANSI
*Extra Features:* Large Font is much easier to read.
*Drawbacks:* Build quality is only so-so, switches can feel wobbly.

*Topre RealForce 103U Series*
*








Link:* EliteKeyboards
 *Price:* $215, and $245 (no in-between)
*Switch Type:* Topre Capacitive 55g (103U 55g) or Topre Capacitive Variable (103U)
*Switch Mounting:* PCB
*Keycap Printing:* Dye Sublimated
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB only
*Rollover:* 6KRO
*Layout:* US ANSI
*Extra Features:* Swappable Caps Lock and Ctrl keys
*Drawbacks:* Very expensive

*Topre Realforce 86U Series*








*Link:* EliteKeyboards
*Price:* $265
*Switch Type:* Topre Capacitive Variable-Weight
*Switch Mounting:* PCB
*Keycap Printing:* Dye Sublimated
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB only
*Rollover:* 6KRO
*Layout:* US ANSI
*Extra Features:* Swappable Caps Lock and Ctrl keys
*Drawbacks:* Very expensive.
*Other:* A keypad can be purchased separately for $129: Topre Realforce 23U

*Happy Hacking Professional 2
*








*Link:* EliteKeyboards
 *Price:* $275
*Switch Type:* Topre Capacitive 55g
*Switch Mounting:* PCB
*Keycap Printing:* Dye Sublimated
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB only
*Rollover:* 3KRO
*Layout:* US ANSI
*Extra Features:* Swappable Caps Lock and Ctrl keys
*Drawbacks:* For people new to this layout, it can take a while to learn.
*Other:* A keypad can be purchased separately for $129: Topre Realforce 23U

*Matias Tactile Pro 3.0*








*Link:* http://matias.ca/tactilepro3/index.php
*Price:* $149
*Switch Type:* White Alps Strongman
*Switch Mounting:*
*Keycap Printing:*
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB or PS/2 (includes a USB to PS/2 adapter)
*Rollover:* NKRO with the USB to PS/2 adapter, "6KRO" without
*Layout:* US ANSI with Mac keys
*Extra Features:* Media Keys, Mac keys, Extra printed symbols to help find them on a Mac (™ € £ ¥ © ...), 3-port USB 2.0 hub
*Drawbacks:*
*Other:* Some older versions (2.0 and 1.0) have a ghosting problem (keys signals get sent for keys you did not press), so avoid buying those used unless the seller can confirm he has a fixed one.

*Adesso MKB-135B Pro*
















*Link:* [ame="[URL=http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=overclockdotnet-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FAdesso-MKB-135B-Pro-Mechanical-Gaming%2Fdp%2FB0038KN6GO]http://www.amazon.com/Adesso-MKB-135B-Pro-Mechanical-Gaming/dp/B0038KN6GO"]Amazon.com[/ame[/URL]]
*Price:* $58-$71
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Blues
*Switch Mounting:* Metal Plate
*Keycap Printing:* Pad*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB or PS/2
*Rollover:* NKRO with a purple USB to PS/2 adapter, "6KRO" without
*Layout:* US ANSI
*Extra Features:* 2-port USB hub, pass-through 3.5mm headphone and microphone jacks
*Drawbacks:* Relatively lower quality construction

*Adesso MKB-125B*















*Link:* Buy.com
*Price:* $59
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Blues
*Switch Mounting:* Metal Plate
*Keycap Printing:* Pad
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB or PS/2
*Rollover:* 2KRO only
*Layout:* Modified ISO
*Extra Features:*
*Drawbacks:* Relatively lower quality construction
*Other:* Altered layout can be hard for some to use.

*Cherry G80-3494*
G80-3494LYCUS-0 (White) and G80-3494LYCUS-2 (Black)









*Link:* Taobao
*Price:* Email [email protected] for inquiry
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Series
*Switch Mounting:* PCB
*Keycap Printing:* Laser-Etched
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB or PS/2
*Rollover:* NKRO through PS/2
*Layout:* US ANSI
*Extra Features:* None
*Drawbacks:* "Flimsy" build, casing is not as durable as other keyboards listed
*Other:* The white model has a Polystyrene casing with PBT keycaps, the black model has an ABS casing with POM keycaps.

*iOne Xarmor U9BL*









*Link:* http://www.amazon.com/XARMOR-U9BL-Backlit-Keyboard-Illuminated-Mechanical/dp/B003XQE040/]Amazon.com[ame="http://www.amazon.com/XARMOR-U9BL-Backlit-Keyboard-Illuminated-Mechanical/dp/B003XQE040/"][/ame[/URL]]
*Price:* $150
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Blues
*Switch Mounting:* Metal Plate
*Keycap Printing:* Dye sublimation, with a thin rubber coating
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB or PS/2
*Rollover:* NKRO through PS/2
*Layout:* US ANSI
*Extra Features:* Individual LED backlight for each key, 2-port USB 2.0 hub, pass-through 3.5mm headphone and mic jacks, media keys, detachable wrist rest
*Drawbacks:* Some concerns about the durability of the rubber coating on the keys
*Other:* Version without backlights available (U9Plus), version with the Cherry MX Browns available ([ame="[URL=http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=overclockdotnet-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FXArmor-U9BL-S-backlit-mechanical-keyboard%2Fdp%2FB004OLLXVQ]http://www.amazon.com/XArmor-U9BL-S-backlit-mechanical-keyboard/dp/B004OLLXVQ"]U9BL-S[/ame[/URL]]). U9 & U9W models may be available in the future.

*Razer BlackWidow Ultimate*








*Link:* Razer Store
*Price:* $130
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Blues
*Switch Mounting:* Metal Plate
*Keycap Printing:* ABS, translucent key painted, then laser-etched
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB only
*Rollover:* 3KRO (but has a matrix optimized for gaming to avoid blocked keys)
*Layout:* US ANSI
*Extra Features:* Adjustable LED lights (one bulb per key), USB hub, pass-through 3.5mm headphone and mic jacks, media keys
*Drawbacks:* Some concerns about keycap durability, glossy surface holds dust and oil (fingerprints) easily.
*Other:* Dragon Age II Special Edition version available

*Razer BlackWidow*








*Link:* Razer Store
*Price:* $80
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Blues
*Switch Mounting:* Metal Plate
*Keycap Printing:* ABS, Laser-etched with infill, coated
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Sculpted
*Interface:* USB only
*Rollover:* 3KRO (but has a matrix optimized for gaming to avoid blocked keys)
*Layout:* US ANSI
*Extra Features:* USB hub, pass-through 3.5mm headphone andmic jacks, media keys
*Drawbacks:* Some concerns about keycap durability, glossy surface holds dust and oil (fingerprints) easily.

*Ergonomic Mechanical Keyboards*

*Being Reworked*

*Kinesis Advantage*








*Link:* Kinesis Store
*Price:* $299
*Switch Type:* Cherry MX Blues or Browns
*Switch Mounting:* Metal Plate
*Keycap Printing:*
*Key Shape:* Cylindrical
*Overall Shape:* Very sculpted
*Interface:* USB
*Rollover:*
*Layout:* US ANSI QWERTY or DVORAK
*Extra Features:* Foot Switches available
*Drawbacks:*
*Other:* 2-port USB hub

*Maltron Dual Hands 3D*








*Link:* Maltron Store
*Price:* £375
*Switch Type:*
*Switch Mounting:*
*Keycap Printing:*
*Key Shape:* Spherical
*Overall Shape:* Very sculpted
*Interface:* USB or PS/2
*Rollover:*
*Layout:* US ANSI QWERTY, DVORAK, Maltron-QWERTY, Maltron-DVORAK, or Maltron
*Extra Features:* Foot Switches available
*Drawbacks:*
*Other:* 2-port USB hub

*Maltron Dual Hands 2D Flat*








*Link:* Maltron Store
 *Price:* £295
*Switch Type:*
*Switch Mounting:*
*Keycap Printing:*
*Key Shape:* Spherical
*Overall Shape:* Flat
*Interface:* USB or PS/2
*Rollover:*
*Layout:* US ANSI QWERTY, DVORAK, Maltron-QWERTY, Maltron-DVORAK, or Maltron
*Extra Features:* Foot Switches available
*Drawbacks:*
*Other:*


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12705379*
> There's a huge number of variables in what a buckling spring keyboard is going to sound like. In general, they're all the same thing, but there are minor variances from board to board, and across the age and condition in which the keyboard is in.
> 
> Buckling spring keyboards are funny things, and people have jumped to various conclusions about things like sound, feel and build quality of different generations and types of buckling spring keyboard. In general, it's best to not read into these things too much.
> 
> As far as I know, the only way to anti-ghost is to either make it NKRO, or to make it block. If I am wrong, I would like to know.
> 
> I'm not sure if there are any external Thinkpad keyboards with chiclet keys. Only the low end X100/X120 has flat keys, all the rest have sculpted ones.
> 
> I would have imagined that Apple's Aluminium keyboard is the most famous flat keyboard.


I didn't know that the Aluminum has scissor switches.







Although, I can see now that I could have just assumed it.

Anyway, here's a standalone Lenovo Thinkpad keyboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823218006


----------



## Phaedrus2129

X100e and X120e still have sculpted keycaps. The difference between it and other Thinkpad keyboards is that they're "island" style keys.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;12706577*
> X100e and X120e still have sculpted keycaps. The difference between it and other Thinkpad keyboards is that they're "island" style keys.


Yup.










@*TwoCables*
Do you use Skype or any other IM service?

Could you possibly hit me up on Skype if you do (my preferred messenger) as I think it'll be easier for us to discuss changes to the guide.

Not that I don't appreciate you posting here, it's just much harder follow right now.

@*ch_123*
I fixed the Meka G1, it's pad printed I don't know why I used dye-sub.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Can I hop in too, Tot?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;12706882*
> Can I hop in too, Tot?


Go ahead, Skype in the profile if you want to add it.

I'm working on the PSU thing I told you about but if you're free then hit me up in there (it's easier to archive conversations with Skype)


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;12706577*
> X100e and X120e still have sculpted keycaps. The difference between it and other Thinkpad keyboards is that they're "island" style keys.


According to the Mechanical Keyboard Guide, that is "Cylindrical".








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12706845*
> Yup.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @*TwoCables*
> Do you use Skype or any other IM service?
> 
> Could you possibly hit me up on Skype if you do (my preferred messenger) as I think it'll be easier for us to discuss changes to the guide.
> 
> Not that I don't appreciate you posting here, it's just much harder follow right now.
> 
> @*ch_123*
> I fixed the Meka G1, it's pad printed I don't know why I used dye-sub.


Unfortunately, there are only two ways I can socialize on the internet: e-mail and OCN.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12707065*
> Unfortunately, there are only two ways I can socialize on the internet: e-mail and OCN.


Well I can work with that.

Email the suggested changes in a more digestible form please
I don't need all of the formatting and what not; just something simple like:
Quote:


> Pad Printing section:
> I suggest changing this to say "most keyboards use this method because..."


[email protected] will be the best email to use.

Thanks man, it's just that it's impossible with VB to staple pages for future reference. So I have to manually bookmark them and then go through as needed.

Emails are much easier for me to manage in that regard.

Sorry for the extra trouble, it's just keeping up takes up way to much time for major changes.


----------



## TwoCables

I think that the way I'm doing it now would be far more digestible because the number of changes I am proposing is large, and several of these changes (but not most) have to do with spacing and other things that cannot be easily explained or even highlighted with red text.

So that's why I mentioned that I almost need blind faith because I'm not changing the content; I'm just improving the quality, and I know that everyone who is familiar with me is familiar with how obsessed I am over the quality and perfection of any content of which I take ownership.









However, if this is too much then I will step down.


----------



## Tator Tot

Well the problem is I can't go through and read the guide twice to compare and contrast them.

Nor can I go with blind faith on updating.

I need a way to see exactly what I'm changing, updating, or adding too.


----------



## TwoCables

Damn.

Then disregard all of my changes because I have no other way that I can do this that will make things any easier. I mean I could do e-mail like you requested, but there are still dozens of changes that I don't know how to describe, nor can they be highlighted in any way. I could also do just a tiny bit per day or per week, but then it would take more than a couple of months to get through the entire guide.


----------



## ch_123

I wouldn't try doing everything at once. I spent well over a year writing the IBM Wiki on Geekhack, was is far narrower in scope.
Quote:


> X100e and X120e still have sculpted keycaps. The difference between it and other Thinkpad keyboards is that they're "island" style keys.


Correct you are. They also have more travel than most of those chiclet laptop keyboards.


----------



## TwoCables

Tator Tot: what if I were to stop until you tell me you're ready for another one? I mean, I could just make sure that I only do one post at a time from now on, but maybe one per week or month or something.

I guess I was trying to go fast because the guide is long overdue for an update.


----------



## Tator Tot

I think I can roll with 1 per week. That is more than doable for now.


----------



## TwoCables

Alright. Then I'll wait until you tell me that I can continue.

I'll enjoy it too because one post can take a while. lol









Thank you, Tator Tot! I'm very happy honored to have this privilege.


----------



## ripster

I usually write my wikis in a couple of hours. It's the damn pictures that take so long.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12709490*
> Alright. Then I'll wait until you tell me that I can continue.
> 
> I'll enjoy it too because one post can take a while. lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you, Tator Tot! I'm very happy honored to have this privilege.


Don't think much about it TwoCables, it's a community, we all work on projects together. That's the best way to do it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12709990*
> I usually write my wikis in a couple of hours. It's the damn pictures that take so long.


I'm doing multiple projects at once a long with two jobs and other duties. It's not so clear cut as that.


----------



## TwoCables

Yep, some people have lives.

Anyway, I hope that I can help cause the quality of Mechanical Keyboard Guide to be as perfect and as easy to read as possible.


----------



## MKB

I have the Filco tenkeyless with the White Alps keys. Filco FKBN87Z/EB (Zero) - ***kas

I love the keyboard. My friend carried back on the plane from Japan.

I feel like I need another one...







or one like it...

What other Keyboards are in this class?

I need the click or I get carpul tunnel. I need the tenkeyless because I do not use the keys and I like the ergonomics of a smaller keyboard for mouse usage.

I started with an IBM. Went to a Northgate back in the day. Used a Fujitsu Keyboard with a very light click. Then have used IBM and then UNICOMP and now my favorite is the FILCO.

I am thinking about getting the blue key version.

Are there any other boards I should consider?


----------



## ch_123

I'd usually put those clicky Alps type switches in the same category as buckling spring switches. Is there any specific reason why you prefer the ***kas over buckling springs? Is it stiffness?

I've never actually used ***ka switches - I've used the older Blue and White Complicated Alps switches, like your Northgate would have had, and I prefer them over Blue Cherry switches that other Filco models have. Again, I'd be able to point you in the right way if you could explain why you like the ***kas the most.


----------



## MKB

Thanks for the response!

Yes I like the stifness of the ***kas bettter. They seem to take less force.

I have also had two keyboards with the Cherry blacks and have not been able to use... One a Deck that I returned. Really nice board but blacks do not work for me... The other an ergo board.

I also tried the HHK2 and found the keys not to my liking but I perhaps did not get it a fair enough try...


----------



## ch_123

Yeah, the ***kas are 60g switches, whereas the buckling springs are 65-70g, and the complicated White Alps like the one in your Northgate would also be 70g. There's an older Alps switch, the Blue Alps, which are also 60g, and have the same tactility as the complicated White Alps switches (I've been told that ***kas don't feel as substantial as the original complicated Alps switches, but I don't know to what extent given that I have not typed on one). The Blue Alps are rare, and when they do appear, the Asian keyboard collectors are all over them.

If you want to go even lighter than the ***ka switch, the Blue Cherry might be of interest. Compared with the complicated Alps switches I've used, they don't feel as 'meaty' or substiantial. On the upside, it's much harder to bottom out on Blue Cherry switches than any of the Alps or Alps like switches.

Another slightly more esoteric recommendation would be the IBM Model F. They used an older implementation of the buckling spring switch which requires less force (about 60-65g) and they're a lot more tactile than the Model M/Unicomp's buckling springs. However, the only keyboard that is readily PC compatible of this type is this fellow -










The IBM PC AT keyboard. Built like a tank, has full NKRO, but somewhat hard to find, and has an archaic layout. Finest tactile switching mechanism to be used on a PC-compatible keyboard though.


----------



## drjoey1500

ch_123, do white alps bottom out as easily as black alps?


----------



## ch_123

Yes, the bottoming out problem is inherent in tactile/clicky Alps switches - any switch where the tactile point is high up in the travel tends to have this problem, the Topres are another example of this. Bottoming out on a Topre is like typing on a pillow, so it isn't problematic for them.

My opinions on the White Alps are formed by a single switch that I installed on my Blue Alps keyboard, so I can't say that I have personal experience of regular typing on a White Alps board. I have experience with Black Alps and Cream Alps in addition to the Blue Alps. The Blue Alps bottom out easily, but they're lighter than Black Alps so they don't come down so hard. The White Alps probably would bottom out quite hard during normal typing on them given that they are as stiff as Black Alps.

There are dampened sliders for Alps switches (Cream Alps) which absorb the force of bottoming out, but given that you bottom out on Alps a lot, I find they make the switches feel mushy.


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12709490*
> Alright. Then I'll wait until you tell me that I can continue.
> 
> I'll enjoy it too because one post can take a while. lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you, Tator Tot! I'm very happy honored to have this privilege.


You guys could maybe proceed much faster when using a revision control system or Google Docs (which has a web-enabled VCS integrated). Unfortunately, that would imply moving the current guide to some other system. - I respect your desire to keep the guide here, even though I believe vBulletin is hugely suboptimal for authoring such content.

Alternatively, the guide could be web-scraped on a regular basis, uploaded into a VCS and the revisions could be diffed easily. Considering how little time it took for me to create a web-to-RSS converter for this thread it shouldn't take long either.


----------



## Tator Tot

In the future we will have a better system in place; right now though, Google Doc's limited implementation for web based embedding keeps us from using it more than a list or sign up form.


----------



## MKB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12717089*
> Yeah, the ***kas are 60g switches, whereas the buckling springs are 65-70g, and the complicated White Alps like the one in your Northgate would also be 70g. There's an older Alps switch, the Blue Alps, which are also 60g, and have the same tactility as the complicated White Alps switches (I've been told that ***kas don't feel as substantial as the original complicated Alps switches, but I don't know to what extent given that I have not typed on one). The Blue Alps are rare, and when they do appear, the Asian keyboard collectors are all over them.
> 
> If you want to go even lighter than the ***ka switch, the Blue Cherry might be of interest. Compared with the complicated Alps switches I've used, they don't feel as 'meaty' or substiantial. On the upside, it's much harder to bottom out on Blue Cherry switches than any of the Alps or Alps like switches.
> 
> Another slightly more esoteric recommendation would be the IBM Model F. They used an older implementation of the buckling spring switch which requires less force (about 60-65g) and they're a lot more tactile than the Model M/Unicomp's buckling springs. However, the only keyboard that is readily PC compatible of this type is this fellow -
> 
> The IBM PC AT keyboard. Built like a tank, has full NKRO, but somewhat hard to find, and has an archaic layout. Finest tactile switching mechanism to be used on a PC-compatible keyboard though.


Thanks Again for the response!

I use to have an IBM Model F as my very first keyboard... I should have never let that one go... Hopefully someone is still using it. 

The white ***kas are getting the job done. I do prefer the Fujitsu Keyboards that are now discontinued. They had a very light click. I am not sure what switched they use. I thought they might use the same keys as the HHK2 as PFU is a fujitsu company.... However they do not...

Thanks for all of the help. I am for sure going for the blue cherrys.

I am considering one of the following:

Leopold FC200R
Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless

Are there any other tenkeyless boards to consider that use Blue Cherrys?

Best Wishes


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mondalaci;12721339*
> You guys could maybe proceed much faster when using a revision control system or Google Docs (which has a web-enabled VCS integrated). Unfortunately, that would imply moving the current guide to some other system. - I respect your desire to keep the guide here, even though I believe vBulletin is hugely suboptimal for authoring such content.
> 
> Alternatively, the guide could be web-scraped on a regular basis, uploaded into a VCS and the revisions could be diffed easily. Considering how little time it took for me to create a web-to-RSS converter for this thread it shouldn't take long either.


But for me, using vBulletin is honestly as easy as breathing, walking, tying my shoes, etc. So I mean, it might not be a good idea for me to start using a different system because then I'd have to slow down while I ride the learning curve.


----------



## no1Joeno1

I just got my Filco.

I have a problem though, it doesn't work in anything with PS/2 EXCEPT Linux. Basically it doesn't work in BIOS (can't even get in bios with it), in GRUB, or Windows.

Any ideas?

Thanks.


----------



## Tator Tot

Do you have PS/2 support enabled in your BIOS?

And did you plug it into the PS/2 port with the computer shut down?


----------



## no1Joeno1

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Do you have PS/2 support enabled in your BIOS?

And did you plug it into the PS/2 port with the computer shut down?


I couldn't find anything about PS/2 in my bios.

I didn't plug it in when it was off, but I did restart, does it make a difference?

Thanks


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *no1Joeno1*


I couldn't find anything about PS/2 in my bios.

I didn't plug it in when it was off, but I did restart, does it make a difference?

Thanks










Even though you rebooted, it may still be necessary to power the system off completely at least once. The reason why is because PS/2 keyboards usually only work properly when they're plugged in while the system is off.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *no1Joeno1*


I couldn't find anything about PS/2 in my bios.

I didn't plug it in when it was off, but I did restart, does it make a difference?

Thanks










A restart should have been enough.

There could be an issue with the windows PS/2 driver though.


----------



## ch_123

Actually, I'm not sure a reboot would be sufficient. The PS/2 ports are effectively disabled unless something is plugged into them when the system is powered on. It may need a proper power down and power up to make the motherboard enable the ports.


----------



## TwoCables

Back in the days of Windows 3.1/95/98, I always needed to turn my system completely off in order to plug in a new PS/2 keyboard or mouse (or to plug one back in if it got unplugged). That is, in order for it to work properly.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Actually, I'm not sure a reboot would be sufficient. The PS/2 ports are effectively disabled unless something is plugged into them when the system is powered on. It may need a proper power down and power up to make the motherboard enable the ports.


Depends on the board; but most I have had did fine with a restart and changing to PS/2


----------



## SmokinWaffle

In the process of acquiring this:










MX Browns, Doubleshots, 1994. Should be fun!

Needs the PS/2 cable though, anyone know where I can get one?


----------



## TwoCables

Damn, and I thought I was a weirdo.


----------



## ch_123

If you poke around inside, you could probably wire up your own. You may very lucky and find that it uses a PS/2 keyboard cable with a male connector on each end, which is standard issue for KVM switches and thus quite easy to buy.


----------



## SmokinWaffle

I thought it would use a male at both ends, what other cable could it be?


----------



## ch_123

Something proprietary as hell.

It could use an SDL cable like the older Model Ms do, but I'd say the chances of that are next to none.

I don't know much about the keyboards. Are they meant to have a removable cable? It could be chopped off or something.


----------



## SmokinWaffle

No idea, even searching the exact model yields very very little in terms of any information at all. I'll ask the owner about it, hopefully it's an easy cable to find.


----------



## myEZweb_net

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12732340*
> In the process of acquiring this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MX Browns, Doubleshots, 1994. Should be fun!
> 
> Needs the PS/2 cable though, anyone know where I can get one?


FUGLY but is it functional?


----------



## SmokinWaffle

I like the look of it, and I'm interested to see how it is to type on with such a curious layout, it'd certainly stop others using my PC.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12732540*
> I don't know much about the keyboards. Are they meant to have a removable cable? It could be chopped off or something.


I think they are like Deck's with a PS/2 port inside as they offer you to get PS/2, USB, and some other port connections. So it would make sense that they use an easily swappable cable.


----------



## gonX

I must be the only one who haven't ever had issues with hotplugging PS/2...


----------



## SmokinWaffle

It's because you are very good at hotplugging?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;12732822*
> I must be the only one who haven't ever had issues with hotplugging PS/2...


Like I said before, it depends on the board.

Windows won't load the PS/2 driver if their is no PS/2 device plugged in when it loads up. And some BIOS don't let the PS/2 port run if they didn't start with a PS/2 device plugged in and instead shut down the port.

Others do not.


----------



## no1Joeno1

Lol thanks everyone.

I fail, I rebooted my computer, but I never shut it down and turned it back on again.

Works now.









Seems Linux supports hot plugging though.


----------



## ripster

Good deal. Next time just throw away the purple adapter and use USB.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12733996*
> Good deal. Next time just throw away the purple adapter and use USB.


Good grief.


----------



## Crazy9000

Ripster was molested by a ps/2 port as a young child.


----------



## MKB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12732567*
> No idea, even searching the exact model yields very very little in terms of any information at all. I'll ask the owner about it, hopefully it's an easy cable to find.


Call Kinesis and they should be able to help

http://kinesis-ergo.com/

Contoured Keyboard

It is an older model and they did have cables that supported the various connections. Mac PS/2 etc...


----------



## MKB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;12732822*
> I must be the only one who haven't ever had issues with hotplugging PS/2...


PS/2 ports are not Hot Plugable...

The spec does not support it...

The origonal IBM PCs would actually fry the motherboard on ocassion because the spec did not suppport hot swaping and they had no fuse to protect the motherboard.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKB;12736429*
> PS/2 ports are not Hot Plugable...
> 
> The spec does not support it...
> 
> The origonal IBM PCs would actually fry the motherboard on ocassion because the spec did not suppport hot swaping and they had no fuse to protect the motherboard.


Some newer motherboards go out of spec and are hot swappable







.


----------



## MKB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12717089*
> Yeah, the ***kas are 60g switches, whereas the buckling springs are 65-70g, and the complicated White Alps like the one in your Northgate would also be 70g.


I setup the Unicomp next to my Filco with the ***kas.

There is a strong similarity. There are diffrences but they are small from my perspective. Both keep my wrists from getting sore...

I like the tenkeyless feature of the Filco so all things being close the Filco takes the nod. I would have never noticed how close they are until you mentioned it...


----------



## MKB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12732680*
> I like the look of it, and I'm interested to see how it is to type on with such a curious layout, it'd certainly stop others using my PC.


The board is complete touch typing as you can not see the keys. It is very nice ergonomic keyboard.


----------



## MKB

Here are the keyboards I am considering. All tenKeyless.

Leopold FC200R
Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless

Any others I should add to my list?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKB;12736870*
> Here are the keyboards I am considering. All tenKeyless.
> 
> Leopold FC200R
> Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless
> 
> Any others I should add to my list?


Ducky DK1087 is another option and may be cheaper than either.

There's also the Adesso MKB-125B but it's not a very good board.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12734711*
> Ripster was molested by a ps/2 port as a young child.


Actually it's bad dreams of Barney The Purple Dinosaur. PS/2 is a dinosaur technology.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12737164*
> Actually it's bad dreams of Barney The Purple Dinosaur. PS/2 is a dinosaur technology.


Old dinosaur pwn young human.

Barney gave you bad dreams? Apparently you've never heard of mickey mouse.


----------



## ripster

Trojan helmeted Ducks give me bad dreams too.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12737262*
> Trojan helmeted Ducks give me bad dreams too.
> g[/IMG]


I may pick the nit, but its the Martian that has the Trojan helm, the duck has some space helm with 1 antenna. AND a cape! We all know: "NO CAPES!"

And as it was I that made up the rumor abut you and PS/2 abuse I can attest to its veracity, no denying it now!.


----------



## Crazy9000

In case you guys don't browse the for sale section, someones selling a Deck legend for $100 shipped.

http://www.overclock.net/other-components/957233-deck-105-legend-toxic.html


----------



## gorb

3.5 years old is relatively old, but I guess that's a decent enough price


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gorb;12749308*
> 3.5 years old is relatively old, but I guess that's a decent enough price


Considering that plenty of Model M's are still working; I wouldn't worry about the keyboard being old.


----------



## MKB

Quote:



Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle*


No idea, even searching the exact model yields very very little in terms of any information at all. I'll ask the owner about it, hopefully it's an easy cable to find.


I called Kinesis today. Local company for me... They no longer have the cables but have tested their product with cables from:

http://piengineering.com/

However they did not give me an exact part number...


----------



## MKB

I talked to Kinesis today and they indicated that the Conture Keyboard (Labeled Advantage in the guide) comes with brownes only.

I was hoping cherry blues...


----------



## ch_123

Old Blue Cherry keyboards tend to lose their tactility. I'd say you're better off with browns, but old Brown Cherry keyboards tends to lose their tactility too


----------



## gorb

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Considering that plenty of Model M's are still working; I wouldn't worry about the keyboard being old.


True


----------



## SmokinWaffle

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MKB*


I called Kinesis today. Local company for me... They no longer have the cables but have tested their product with cables from:

http://piengineering.com/

However they did not give me an exact part number...



Quote:



Originally Posted by *MKB*


I talked to Kinesis today and they indicated that the Conture Keyboard (Labeled Advantage in the guide) comes with brownes only.

I was hoping cherry blues...


Wow, thanks a lot. Much appreciated,









I knew it had MX Browns, and it also has doubleshot keycaps, but not much more about it. The seller confirmed that it uses a standard 6 pin PS/2 cable.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gorb*


3.5 years old is relatively old, but I guess that's a decent enough price


My favorite keyboard is ~25 years old, and still is good to type on the day it came out of the factory.


----------



## ripster

OCN needs a Vintage Computer SubForum.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12753369*
> OCN needs a Vintage Computer SubForum.


http://www.overclock.net/suggestions/


----------



## Skylit

Quote:



ZOWIE Gear CELERITAS

Link: Newegg
Price: $120
Switch Type: Cherry MX-Brown
Switch Mounting: Plate
*Keycap Printing: Pad Printed*
Key Shape: Sculpted
Interface: USB or PS/2
Rollover: 6KRO (USB) | NKRO (PS/2)
Layout: Modified ANSI Layout
Extra Features: Multimedia Keys, Swappable Windows & CTRL keys, Real Time Response function (only works on PS/2)
Drawbacks:
Other: Reported as Nylon keycaps, durability may be a concern?


Pretty sure the CELERITAS uses lasered keys. (Unless it was changed?)


----------



## Xazen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Old Blue Cherry keyboards tend to lose their tactility. I'd say you're better off with browns, but old Brown Cherry keyboards tends to lose their tactility too










How old are you talking about? 5 years? 10?


----------



## ch_123

In this case, 10 years. When typed on side by side with a relatively new Filco, the difference was night and day.

I'm sure the wear starts a long time before that, and it's hard to say when it starts to get to a stage where the experience of typing on the keyboard diminishes, but it's definitely something to bare in mind if getting an old Blue Cherry keyboard.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Skylit*


Pretty sure the CELERITAS uses lasered keys. (Unless it was changed?)


That was my mistake, I'm changing it.

I read a bad review of it that stated as such but I can confirm my board is lazered.


----------



## TwoCables

"Laser-etched". Or if you must, then "Lasered". However, "lasered" isn't a word.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


"Laser-etched". Or if you must, then "Lasered". However, "lasered" isn't a word.


what?

EDIT: Fixed it.

But Z's make everything cooler.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TwoCables*


"Laser-etched". Or if you must, then "Lasered". However, "lasered" isn't a word.



The correct term is "Lased".


----------



## TwoCables

lol


----------



## ch_123

I am in the habit of saying lasered, although I use "Laser Printed" if I'm writing a guide or the like.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


I am in the habit of saying lasered, although I use "Laser Printed" if I'm writing a guide or the like.


It's still "laser-etched" though.


----------



## ch_123

Well, if you want to get into semantics, it's "Laser etched and infilled" in the case of most modern keyboards using the technique. Usually when I say "Lasered", people get what I mean, which is pretty much all that matters.

EDIT: Apparently I call it Laser Engraving. Oh me.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

You take a laser. You use it on something.

Laser -ed

Lasered.


----------



## SmokinWaffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;12784556*
> You take a laser. You use it on something.
> 
> Laser -ed
> 
> Lasered.


Oh snap.









Phae, I won a Compaq Rack Mounted keyboard on eBay, with MX Browns and a trackball, and I saw you wrote some stuff on GH about it. How did you like it?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;12784556*
> You take a laser. You use it on something.
> 
> Laser -ed
> 
> Lasered.


Lasered is not a real word. The term is lased.

Laser is the object. You lase other objects with a laser, and for past tense, you lased the keys.


----------



## Ikrin

Tasered vs tased? In that situatoin, Taser is a brand. In this situation, laser is an acronym.


----------



## ripster

No wonder the Mechanical Keyboard Guide Revisions took so long to implement.

Don't Lase Me Bro!


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle;12784585*
> Oh snap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phae, I won a Compaq Rack Mounted keyboard on eBay, with MX Browns and a trackball, and I saw you wrote some stuff on GH about it. How did you like it?


It was decent enough. I <3 MX browns, especially when PCB-mounted, so of course I enjoyed using it (though mine was very worn and closer to MX reds in feel). Only complaint is the funky layout, but at least it's compact.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12784617*
> Lasered is not a real word. The term is lased.
> 
> Laser is the object. You lase other objects with a laser, and for past tense, you lased the keys.


If I was a physicist or an engineer I'd agree with you, but we geologists make up words all the time*, so lasered it is.

Evidence: "marl"


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;12786373*
> If I was a physicist or an engineer I'd agree with you, but we geologists make up words all the time*, so lasered it is.
> 
> Evidence: "marl"


There's a difference between completely making up a new word for something that doesn't have one yet, and using the wrong word







. We should use the right one if possible.

What is that, a full page devoted to one word? At this rate, we can get one paragraph done by the end of the year!


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12783644*
> Well, if you want to get into semantics, it's "Laser etched and infilled" in the case of most modern keyboards using the technique. Usually when I say "Lasered", people get what I mean, which is pretty much all that matters.
> 
> EDIT: Apparently I call it Laser Engraving. Oh me.


My whole thing is about providing the highest quality content possible in the Mechanical Keyboard Guide. So "lasered" is unacceptable to me. "Lased" is too since most people wouldn't get it. Therefore, I prefer "Laser-etched" (yes, with a hyphen).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12784617*
> Lasered is not a real word. The term is lased.
> 
> Laser is the object. You lase other objects with a laser, and for past tense, you lased the keys.


I thought you were joking!!

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lase

I wish I had looked it up sooner.


----------



## MKB

Are there any tenkeyless buckling spring boards?


----------



## Ikrin

You mean like the Space Saver?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKB;12787580*
> Are there any tenkeyless buckling spring boards?


Yeah but they are IBM models and harder to find and normally go for a lot because of collectors.

Though they are not exactly small.

Ch_123 should be able to comment on exact size but I do believe the Unicomp Space Saver is around the same size.


----------



## Ikrin

The Unicomp isn't tenkeyless, though.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikrin;12787892*
> The Unicomp isn't tenkeyless, though.


As I said, I think it's about the same size as the IBM Model M Space Saver though.

The point of a Tenkeyless board is to save space but Model M's are just large. No getting around that.


----------



## Ikrin

Well, it's not just that. Some people just don't want the numpad at all. That's where i was heading. Having the same space, including numpad=smaller overall space for letters.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12784617*
> Lasered is not a real word. The term is lased.
> 
> Laser is the object. You lase other objects with a laser, and for past tense, you lased the keys.


This has connotations of calling in airstrikes in Delta Force 2...


----------



## DarthBaiter

I didn't know my Mech kbs were such a big deal.









Had my Filco browns for awhile now and love it for typing and FPS gaming. I also own a PLU Ml 87 black cherry for typing and an Adesso blue cherry number pad for my work.

I was looking for a game KB for my work and found this thread...
I also found this on Amazon and my jaws hit the floor...

  Amazon.com: Filco Majestouch-2 Tenkeyless NKR ASCII with Red Switch: Electronics
 $9999.00 for soft red cherry keyboard? A typo, I hope...

Joe


----------



## ch_123

Last I checked, they were something like $160.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Last I checked, they were something like $160.


Some retailers do the 99999 price when they are out of stock instead of listing it as OOS. Not sure why they do it.


----------



## ripster

After the earthquake/tsunami wait until you see what happens to NVRAM prices.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


After the earthquake/tsunami wait until you see what happens to NVRAM prices.


all of the different DRAM prices have gone up some. Thankfully Taiwan and South Korea have RAM manufacturing plants as well so it's not going to be wost possible scenario.

It really depends on how long it takes them to get everything back up and running.


----------



## ripster

I'm just glad I bought my Sandy Bridge SSD and my HP DM1z 128GB SSD "Mac Book Air Killer" before the disaster.


----------



## quickrabbit5

Are there any keyboards that have a similar layout to the Noppoo Choc Mini but are readily sold in the US? Preferably with blue or brown switches.


----------



## reaper~

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *quickrabbit5;12794749*
> Are there any keyboards that have a similar layout to the Noppoo Choc Mini but are readily sold in the US? Preferably with blue or brown switches.


Welcome to OCN and to answer your question, none to my knowledge. You'd have to do a group buy or import it yourself from overseas.

A keyboard with similar layout would be KBC Poker which GeekHack has exclusive to. Check out this thread and pre-order with iMav (link).


----------



## Skylit

Don't know if anyone noticed but newegg now sells Das keyboards.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007651%2050017362&IsNodeId=1&name=Das%20Keyboard

Price seems high though. lol


----------



## ch_123

The RK9000 is "Deactivated. This item is currently out of stock and it may or may not be restocked."

Coincidence?


----------



## quickrabbit5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reaper~;12797905*
> Welcome to OCN and to answer your question, none to my knowledge. You'd have to do a group buy or import it yourself from overseas.
> 
> A keyboard with similar layout would be KBC Poker which GeekHack has exclusive to. Check out this thread and pre-order with iMav (link).


Thanks! I'm guessing though that in order for the arrow keys to function, they must be pressed down in conjunction with a function key of some sorts?

The Noppoo mini is pretty much a dream layout to me. Gets rid of extra space from the numpad and the arrow keys, and I don't mind the undersized shift key at all, since I pretty much hit the left most part of the shift key anyway. Guess I'll have to settle for importing it and stomach the shipping fees.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


The RK9000 is "Deactivated. This item is currently out of stock and it may or may not be restocked."

Coincidence?


Doubt it. Newegg says that about every item that's out of stock. They list them as "Deactivated" but it always happens this way.

It wouldn't be the first time Newegg/Rosewill has sold the same product as another brand but done so at a cheaper price.


----------



## pantalaimon

Hi,

I have been trying to get my hands on a 6GV2 for a long time, but I so far have been unable to find anywhere that sells it. I asked SteelSeries when they would be available about a month before Christmas, to which they replied "in time for Christmas". Not so. I asked them again recently, but was told to use the tool on their site for finding retailers (no luck).

Anyone know any good alternatives to the 6G and places to buy?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pantalaimon*


Hi,

I have been trying to get my hands on a 6GV2 for a long time, but I so far have been unable to find anywhere that sells it. I asked SteelSeries when they would be available about a month before Christmas, to which they replied "in time for Christmas". Not so. I asked them again recently, but was told to use the tool on their site for finding retailers (no luck).

Anyone know any good alternatives to the 6G and places to buy?


Where do you live?

Provantage, GameStop, & Office Depot are all US seller who have it in stock.


----------



## pantalaimon

How stupid of me - sorry. I'm in the U.K.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikrin;12787892*
> The Unicomp isn't tenkeyless, though.


He is referring to the IBM Model M SpaceSaver; it's the tenkeyless version of the classic IBM Model M.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit;12799770*
> Don't know if anyone noticed but newegg now sells Das keyboards.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007651%2050017362&IsNodeId=1&name=Das%20Keyboard
> 
> Price seems high though. lol


Whoa!

Just..... whoa! High prices indeed, but I like where this is going!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12803004*
> Doubt it. Newegg says that about every item that's out of stock. They list them as "Deactivated" but it always happens this way.
> 
> It wouldn't be the first time Newegg/Rosewill has sold the same product as another brand but done so at a cheaper price.


Not every item.

For example:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823830003

Screenshot, just in case it's back in stock by the time you see this.

I bet I could find at least 100 more examples. So they don't only use "Deactivated" when something is out of stock. Instead, that seems reserved for items where they have absolutely no idea of when they'll get more, if ever.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKB;12787580*
> Are there any tenkeyless buckling spring boards?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikrin;12787857*
> You mean like the Space Saver?


I meant IBM here.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12787886*
> Yeah but they are IBM models and harder to find and normally go for a lot because of collectors.
> 
> Though they are not exactly small.
> 
> Ch_123 should be able to comment on exact size but I do believe the Unicomp Space Saver is around the same size.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikrin;12787892*
> The Unicomp isn't tenkeyless, though.


Comment about his second suggestion.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12787899*
> As I said, I think it's about the same size as the IBM Model M Space Saver though.
> Speaking of the Unicomp.
> The point of a Tenkeyless board is to save space but Model M's are just large. No getting around that.


Again, Unicomp.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikrin;12787930*
> Well, it's not just that. Some people just don't want the numpad at all. That's where i was heading. Having the same space, including numpad=smaller overall space for letters.


He was speaking of the Unicomp, and it is 104/105 keys. It's not just the form factor that counts.

On another note, I was not even aware that the RK-9000 was still being sold. Is it available on ChiefValue?

Edit: Guess it's no longer offered on CV.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pantalaimon;12804808*
> How stupid of me - sorry. I'm in the U.K.


Lambda Tek is all I could find.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12804865*
> Not every item.
> 
> For example:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823830003
> 
> Screenshot, just in case it's back in stock by the time you see this.
> 
> I bet I could find at least 100 more examples. So they don't only use "Deactivated" when something is out of stock. Instead, that seems reserved for items where they have absolutely no idea of when they'll get more, if ever.


Das they have an ETA on shipments. they don't on other products they use the deactivated thing.


----------



## pantalaimon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12805532*
> Lambda Tek is all I could find


They say they are out of stock, but I registered my e-mail for notification of stock changes.

Are there any alternatives to the 6G?

Thanks.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12804865*
> He is referring to the IBM Model M SpaceSaver; it's the tenkeyless version of the classic IBM Model M.


_Space Saving Keyboard_.










The IBM Space Saver was a completely different non-mechanical keyboard.

I usually call the mini Model M the SSK to make my life easier, and to confuse the **** out of everyone else.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12805532*
> Lambda Tek is all I could find.
> 
> Das they have an ETA on shipments. they don't on other products they use the deactivated thing.


Really?

http://home.comcast.net/~twocables/Out%20of%20Stock.png (100 out of stock keyboards, and *none* of them are Deactivated)


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikrin;12805220*
> I meant IBM here.
> 
> Comment about his second suggestion.
> 
> Again, Unicomp.
> 
> He was speaking of the Unicomp, and it is 104/105 keys. It's not just the form factor that counts.


The IBM SSK has a pretty big border around it, this means that it's only about 1-2" less wide than the full sized Unicomp Spacesaver, which has very little in way of a border.










The pic is at a funny angle, the difference in width is less than it appears there, IIRC.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pantalaimon;12805612*
> They say they are out of stock, but I registered my e-mail for notification of stock changes.
> 
> Are there any alternatives to the 6G?
> 
> Thanks.


Thermaltake Meka G1, though I'm not who carries it right now (UK wise) or a Filco with MX-Blacks from Keyboard Co.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12805675*
> The IBM SSK has a pretty big border around it, this means that it's only about 1-2" less wide than the full sized Unicomp Spacesaver, which has very little in way of a border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pic is at a funny angle, the difference in width is less than it appears there, IIRC.


Well, I was talking about it lacking the numpad. It's not really tenkeyless if it includes it..


----------



## ch_123

The point here is that its nearly as compact. Which is what its all about really.


----------



## Ikrin

I agree in some respects, but some people just really don't care to have the numpad, so compactness doesn't really represent the whole picture.


----------



## ch_123

So, in this case, the bottom is better than the top?










(Somewhat bad picture to prove my point, some of those beasts had numpads instead of PF blocks on the right hand keypad)

To me, the numpad adds functionality to the keyboard. But I prefer having a compact keyboard, so I prefer to have a compact keyboard over a keyboard with a numpad. But I'll take a keyboard with a numpad over a keyboard without a numpad if they are equivalent in size.

Well, that's not entirely true, but the basic idea is that I like the Tenkeyless keyboards for size purposes. I like the SSK because its awesome, but it's somewhat large by modern standards.


----------



## TwoCables

I like having the keypad because it gives me more than enough keys to remap with SharpKeys.







So for me, it's not a keypad: it's 17 extra keys that can be whatever I want them to be.


----------



## pantalaimon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12806129*
> Thermaltake Meka G1, though I'm not who carries it right now (UK wise) or a Filco with MX-Blacks from Keyboard Co.


I found this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/SteelSeries-HQ-64227-6Gv2/dp/B00432WD38/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1300675047&sr=1-2]SteelSeries 6Gv2: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories[/URL]

£88 including delivery

The Filco comes to £114 with delivery

Disregarding the fact that the Filco will cost £26 extra, which is the better keyboard? If I'm going to spend nearly 90 pounds on a keyboard that bit extra doesn't bother me if the Filco is better.


----------



## Tator Tot

As long as you are good with the layout of the 6Gv2 then I would pick it up. More features, equal build quality.

@Ch_123;
The Nopoo Choc Mini 82 is a good example. Tenkeyless with a numpad that is smaller than most keyboards.


----------



## ch_123

The G80-1800 is another example - it's actually slightly narrower than the IBM SSK despite having a full 101-key layout.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


The G80-1800 is another example - it's actually slightly narrower than the IBM SSK despite having a full 101-key layout.


iRocks KR-6230 as well. That's a full 104 key layout but smaller than most keyboards.


----------



## ch_123

Hideous layout though. G80-1800 has the right idea


----------



## Tator Tot

My only issue is that extra 2" of space up top. Chop that off and throw in at least the right windows key and yeah it'd be solid.


----------



## ch_123

That particular variant is for a briefcase computer and doubles as the screen's cover










Regular ones are more compact


----------



## pantalaimon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12808083*
> As long as you are good with the layout of the 6Gv2 then I would pick it up. More features, equal build quality.


Ok thanks. I ordered a 6Gv2. I have never used a mechanical keyboard in my life, just cheap rubber dome logitechs and the like. While I'm waiting for it, perhaps you could tell me what I can expect?


----------



## MKB

Has anyone heard of a moding a Filco Keyboard so that it was Buckling Spring?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MKB*


Has anyone heard of a moding a Filco Keyboard so that it was Buckling Spring?


Nope, can't do that. Not even theoretically.

Buckling spring mk1 (Model F) = capacitive 
Buckling spring mk2 (Model M) = membrane
Cherry MX = electrical contact switch

So you'd have to replace the key mechanisms, PCB, controller, keycaps, and modify or replace the case. Basically, by the time you were done turning a Filco into a buckling spring keyboard, you'd have replaced every part and would have an IBM Model M.


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pantalaimon*


Ok thanks. I ordered a 6Gv2. I have never used a mechanical keyboard in my life, just cheap rubber dome logitechs and the like. While I'm waiting for it, perhaps you could tell me what I can expect?










The MX Blacks are very different from your usual rubber domes, but you'll probably like it anyway


----------



## EarlZ

I wonder if anyone has considered modding the LED on those keyboards with backlight..


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EarlZ;12825556*
> I wonder if anyone has considered modding the LED on those keyboards with backlight..


If you own a deck they include instructions on how to, a long with what you'll need.


----------



## EarlZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;12825583*
> If you own a deck they include instructions on how to, a long with what you'll need.


Is there like an online documentation for that?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EarlZ;12825941*
> Is there like an online documentation for that?


http://www.deckkeyboards.com/light.php


----------



## XenoCrash

I've got a SteelSeries 6Gv2 a little over a month ago for use with my home gaming system. This had the "unfortunate" side-effect of turning me into a keyboard snob and made using the membrane keyboard I have at work nearly unbearable. I knew that there had to be some old keyboards kicking around at work somewhere. I asked the hardware guys if they knew of any old keyboards kicking around, but they didn't (I suspect they are hoarding them). Then today I walk by the frontdesk of our department and see this sitting on top of an old 486:








An IBM Model M keyboard with a date of 18MAY93.

My work computer doesn't have any PS/2 ports, but luckily I had an adapter at home. So after returning from lunch I plugged it into my computer ASAP and was greeted with spring-buckling clicky goodness! Unfortunately, I was moving it around on my desk and bumped the cable at the back pretty good and the keyboard stopped working. Unplugging it and then plugging it in again just made the Caps/Scroll Lock LEDS flash for a second, followed by all 3 LEDS flashing briefly. No LEDS stayed lit and no input was transmitted to the computer. I tried plugging it in to a computer with a proper PS/2 port, but got the same result. Eventually I noticed that when I unplugged the cable from the back of the keyboard the Num Lock light would come on briefly, so I plugged the cable back in and slowly pulled it out (probably only 2-3mm) until the light stayed on. I tried typing and input was recognized again!

So I have a couple of questions: Is this a problem that anyone else has run into with these keyboards? Are there any suggestions on how to fix this properly (instead of just jiggling the connector)?


----------



## MKB

Any keyboards shipping with Fujitsu Peerless switches?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKB;12834353*
> Any keyboards shipping with Fujitsu Peerless switches?


Try to find a Fujitsu FKB4700 on ebay or something. It'll be old, but will let you try the switches.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Just a reference, all plastic types that I've encountered in keycaps:

ABS (acrylonitrile butadiene styrene)
PVC (polyvinyl chloride)
PBT (polybutylene terephthalate)
POM (polyoxymethylene)
PS (polystyrene)


----------



## ripster

Celeritas uses nylon.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XenoCrash;12827898*
> I've got a SteelSeries 6Gv2 a little over a month ago for use with my home gaming system. This had the "unfortunate" side-effect of turning me into a keyboard snob and made using the membrane keyboard I have at work nearly unbearable. I knew that there had to be some old keyboards kicking around at work somewhere. I asked the hardware guys if they knew of any old keyboards kicking around, but they didn't (I suspect they are hoarding them). Then today I walk by the frontdesk of our department and see this sitting on top of an old 486:
> 
> ...
> 
> An IBM Model M keyboard with a date of 18MAY93.
> 
> My work computer doesn't have any PS/2 ports, but luckily I had an adapter at home. So after returning from lunch I plugged it into my computer ASAP and was greeted with spring-buckling clicky goodness! Unfortunately, I was moving it around on my desk and bumped the cable at the back pretty good and the keyboard stopped working. Unplugging it and then plugging it in again just made the Caps/Scroll Lock LEDS flash for a second, followed by all 3 LEDS flashing briefly. No LEDS stayed lit and no input was transmitted to the computer. I tried plugging it in to a computer with a proper PS/2 port, but got the same result. Eventually I noticed that when I unplugged the cable from the back of the keyboard the Num Lock light would come on briefly, so I plugged the cable back in and slowly pulled it out (probably only 2-3mm) until the light stayed on. I tried typing and input was recognized again!
> 
> So I have a couple of questions: Is this a problem that anyone else has run into with these keyboards? Are there any suggestions on how to fix this properly (instead of just jiggling the connector)?


Perhaps the internal ribbon connectors came loose from the controller when it received the hard knock. If you get a 5.5mm nut driver, it's easy to remove the four bolts and get it open.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12839050*
> Celeritas uses nylon.


Any reports on the durability of nylon vs PBT or ABS?


----------



## ch_123

Polystyrene keycaps?










lolwut?


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12841381*
> Polystyrene keycaps?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lolwut?


Polystyrene.









Polystyrene.









Polystyrene.









Metal.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Yeah, styrofoam is to polystyrene as marshmallows are to sugar. Minus the deliciousness.

I've seen polystyrene in lots of cheap rubber dome Chicony made keyboards.


----------



## dido714

i am getting used to my new deck keyboard, and ive been wondering if there is anyway i can make my key stroke depth lessened to the point just beyond actuation. i want to be able to tap as quickly as possible(even if just for my directional keys if it is difficult to modify). also, can i raise the actuation point at all? i assume this would be harder, if not impossible. i am curious if i were to place some type of rubber/ plastic spacer inside the switch underneath where the plastic sits in the individual switch. has anyone tried something similar or even wondered if this mod is feasible?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dido714;12848115*
> i am getting used to my new deck keyboard, and ive been wondering if there is anyway i can make my key stroke depth lessened to the point just beyond actuation. i want to be able to tap as quickly as possible(even if just for my directional keys if it is difficult to modify). also, can i raise the actuation point at all? i assume this would be harder, if not impossible. i am curious if i were to place some type of rubber/ plastic spacer inside the switch underneath where the plastic sits in the individual switch. has anyone tried something similar or even wondered if this mod is feasible?


I'll recommend a different solution:

What you want to do is stop bottoming out. So, I recommend hovering your wrists while typing in order to make it much easier to use a light tap for each keystroke. This also has the benefit of giving you total freedom of movement since your hands are just hovering above the keyboard.

However, in order for this to comfortable, I think a few requirements should be met:

The keyboard has to be at about the same height as your elbows, perhaps slightly higher or lower (depending on your setup's flexibility)
The keys should be as flat as possible in order to avoid having your hands angling up at the wrists. If your hands angle up at the wrist, then do what you can to reverse it.
Your wrists cannot be allowed to touch anything or rest on anything while you're typing.
Allow your elbows to remain at your sides when you're typing. I've seen people who, for some reason, hold their elbows out away from their body while typing. This makes it impossible to be fully relaxed. You can even use your body as an armrest (which is actually natural and very desirable).
For gaming, try to sit as low as possible - or get the keyboard as high as possible (all while still keeping it low enough for comfort and the occasional typing during a game). This allows you to keep your wrists planted on a wrist rest or on a desk while gaming without forcing your hands to angle up at your wrists.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dido714;12848115*
> i am getting used to my new deck keyboard, and ive been wondering if there is anyway i can make my key stroke depth lessened to the point just beyond actuation. i want to be able to tap as quickly as possible(even if just for my directional keys if it is difficult to modify). also, can i raise the actuation point at all? i assume this would be harder, if not impossible. i am curious if i were to place some type of rubber/ plastic spacer inside the switch underneath where the plastic sits in the individual switch. has anyone tried something similar or even wondered if this mod is feasible?


Given that it actuates at a given point, how does lessening the travel of the switch make it quicker to press?

Either way, shortening the travel could theoretically be done, but it would involve a lot of effort for no appreciable gain. Moving the actuation point is impossible for all intents and purposes.


----------



## MKB

Any reviews of the unreleased Realforce quiter switches keyboard?


----------



## Ikrin

What keyboard is that? I have not heard of such a board.

On another note, what's the scoop on the XArmor U9? Is it just a watered down version of the U9BL-S?


----------



## dido714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12856260*
> Given that it actuates at a given point, how does lessening the travel of the switch make it quicker to press?
> 
> Either way, shortening the travel could theoretically be done, but it would involve a lot of effort for no appreciable gain. Moving the actuation point is impossible for all intents and purposes.


raising the actuation point would just lessen the time that it takes for you to "press" the key until the time it takes for it to "actuate" the key (2mm if iirc). i mainly want it to register then immediately stop, preferably in a way that i can move my hand the least amnt possible to rise then depress again. i think traveling just past the actuation point is what i find would be more feasible. i can twitch much more quickly if i have less distance to travel(guessing 10 times per second max with index over a distance of .5 mm). so what i want is basically a super sensitive key that i can keep depressed right over the actuation point and depress as quickly as possible.
ive recently been trying to beat some stepmania songs on challenge mode, but having failed to lift the key enough to get past the actuation point for the resultant depression, it did not actuate. that is one examle, i have my hands hovering for the most part, and have my hands to my sides anyway because of the way my chair is. maybe i havent gotten used to where the actuation point is compared to my old rubber keyboard. wondering if anyone can post high res pictures/dimensions of these cherry switches so i can estimate how much plastic/rubber i would need to get just under the actuation point? i would appreciate it if possible.


----------



## Ikrin

Which Deck do you have? Clear or black switches?


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikrin;12886369*
> Which Deck do you have? Clear or black switches?


This.

We mean, is it a Tactile or Linear version?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKB;12885798*
> Any reviews of the unreleased Realforce quiter switches keyboard?


Tenkeyless ones have been out for about a year. The new one is just a full 108 key version of them.

I can't remember where any reviews are though







.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ikrin;12885883*
> What keyboard is that? I have not heard of such a board.
> 
> On another note, what's the scoop on the XArmor U9? Is it just a watered down version of the U9BL-S?


More or less. It's got no "features" to it. It's just a normal 104 key mechanical keyboard. (So no backlit, Audio/USB passthrough, or media keys)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKB;12885798*
> Any reviews of the unreleased Realforce quiter switches keyboard?


There's some Youtube vid's but I don't have the time to look them up at the moment.

They have less of a clunk noise that Topre boards normally make. Still sound like Topre's; just quieter.


----------



## dido714

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ikrin*


Which Deck do you have? Clear or black switches?


i have the linear one with black switches. the "ice" model iirc.


----------



## MKB

Anyone have their Leopold yet from Elite Keyboard? Excited to hear how you like it....

I am eying the blue switch version..


----------



## ripster

I do.

Hahaha - I keed. Early April Fools!


----------



## waar

i wonder if they literally mean at the end of march. or the last week.

either way, almost there.


----------



## ch_123

In the White Alps section -
Quote:


> White Alps are one of the *most most* common Alps switch types. These are far more popular than the Black switches due to more pronounced tactility, and the lower force requirements of some versions. Like the Black Alps, White Alps are much easier to bottom out on compared with other mechanical keyswitch designs.


I don't know if that one was my mistake, or got added in along the way.

Also, my choice of wording is somewhat ambiguous, while they are more popular than Black alps, they are far less common. Perhaps that should be added in brackets after the bit where it describes them as popular.


----------



## TwoCables

That's one of the many things I'm correcting in my proposals. That's what I meant when I said that I went over it with a fine-toothed comb. Well, that's also what I meant when I asked for blind faith because there are easily over a hundred small changes/corrections like that.


----------



## ch_123

Turns out I made it in my original post. Oh well.


----------



## TwoCables

Huh?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables;12933868*
> Huh?


He's saying it was his error.

Either way; guide update on pause for now. I'm working two jobs at the minute (need to buy a new car) so I have VERY little free time.

ETA for my start up is Mid-April most likely.


----------



## ch_123

Lucky you. College exams will cause the suspension of my grammar editing days till June.


----------



## w00t

So i just bought a das keyboard. And i was wondering where can i get palm rests?


----------



## Munkypoo7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *w00t;12938330*
> So i just bought a das keyboard. And i was wondering where can i get palm rests?


Most office stores like OfficeDepot and OfficeMax have some.

Elitekeyboards also has fancier, and more expensive ones.

I personally use this in conjunction with mt BlackWidow Ultimate so I don;t touch the gloss and get it icky... damn comfortable and for a great price... plus you can clean it by hand so it doesn't get all nasty... idk I think it;s awesome... got the mouse version too... comfy stuff


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;12934646*
> Lucky you. College exams will cause the suspension of my grammar editing days till June.


I have school work two (though only 8hrs right now.)

Trust me, I'm slammed. 50hrs a week, plus 8hr class load, and any work I do here, a long with my reviewing gig. I have zero free time at the moment.

Once I have the cash from the one job, I'm going to retire from them and buy the car I need. Then be back to full working status here.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *w00t;12938330*
> So i just bought a das keyboard. And i was wondering where can i get palm rests?


Go into computer stores to try the different styles.

Like a switch, it's an important choice in terms of comfort.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKB;12912445*
> Anyone have their Leopold yet from Elite Keyboard? Excited to hear how you like it....
> 
> I am eying the blue switch version..












Lol, I got an email from them yesterday that it was going to ship.

To answer your question, it is awesome.


----------



## rfjunkie

I came across 60+ of these Scorpius 305 keyboards today in rack mount drawers, with matching track ball. Are these boards worth anything?

I brought one home to give it a try and I am liking the feel of it so far.. The only thing I don't like is where the escape key is located... I think that might be a switch to change that to the default position????

I would really like to know what switch this keyboard has in it. It has the feel of Cherry Blue switches. and a sharp tactile clicky sound to them. At first I thought they might be XM whites, but they don't feel like my boards I have with XM whites.... I'm confused.

I believe there are over 60+ of them available in rack mount drawers with matching track ball... I almost broke out my Visa card to buy all of them... But I figured I'd find out if they are worth anything first.

The last picture is of the left handed Mechanical keyboard that I picked up last weekend on craigslist for $20 bucks. It's made by Sejin Electron Inc.
Model SKM-2040. I set that board up on my CAD/CAM (Work at home PC) machine and it sure doesn't take long to get used to using it after having a movable 10 key on the left side for the last 5 years while doing CAD/CAM work... Now I'm going to probably need to get a left handed keyboard to take to work with me to keep everything uniform....


----------



## Crazy9000

Looks like fake cherry switches. Real ones have the Cherry logo.


----------



## MKB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drjoey1500;12952680*
> 
> Lol, I got an email from them yesterday that it was going to ship.
> 
> To answer your question, it is awesome.


Looks awesome!!! Congratulations!!!!


----------



## ezekiel 08

Wipe the keytops and casing down with a clean cloth, dampened with isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol. Pay extra attention to any keys that you might be using the most frequently, such as WASD.

Note: On Filcos, use water instead of Alcohol. Filcos have a special coating on them that gets ruined if you use it.
Thanks for that information, saved my k/b!


----------



## rfjunkie

I think later in the afternoon I will be running and picking up at least 2 to 4 more of these Scorpius 305 keyboard set ups...
I've been using the one I got yesterday since I brought it home and its really starting to grow on me.

I think I finally found a mechanical keyboard with just the right amount of tension on the tactile feed back...
I have a Cherry keyboard with brown switches, and I find that to be to light. Another keyboard I have is a Filco 10 keyless Zero and the tactile breaking point seems a little heavy on it....

The left handed board I picked up on craigslist for $20, Has a really good feel to it too... But, I think that will be going with me to wherever I end up working.
















I will be bringing my key puller with me this time when I go pick up a couple more of the Scorpius 305 keyboards... I read somewhere that its possible for them to come with Cherry Blue switches... (Is there any truth to that? Is it possible that they come with blue switches too?)


----------



## B757

The following edits should be made to Modern Mechanical Keyboards.
1. Black Widow normal does not have a USB hub nor audio passthrough.
2. Rosewill RK-9000 has lasered keys I believe.
3. Various Cherry G80s (such as the 10+ G80-8113HRBUS-2 w/ Clears or Browns currently available on Ebay) should be added.
4. ASK-6600 (which is the same as ACK-6600 apparently) should be added.
5. DSI left handed should be added.
6. DSI Mac Keyboard with Cherry MX blue or brown should be added.
7. PLU ML-87[/URL] and Noppoo Choc Mini should be added.


----------



## Tator Tot

I'm staying away from Ebay or Obook boards just because that can be more hassle than it's worth and not always available.

Some G80's will be added as they are on Newegg.

Edit's, Fixes, Updates, Etc to come around mid-april. I said earlier that I've got very little time right now between working to buy a new car, and school.

All input is welcome though


----------



## JacobKay97

Loving my Filco.
The normal majestouch with browns.
Thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## ripster

Good choice! Filcos are the best.


----------



## ebolamonkey3

Can someone edit the post w/ keyboards by switch type and add Deck to the cherry clear section?

Also, is there a difference in using a PS/2 keyboard vs USB keyboard w/ a PS/2 adapter? I'm thinking about getting a Deck w/ USB cable and just grabbing an adapter instead of getting it w/ the native PS/2 cable.


----------



## Crazy9000

The Deck doesn't support USB to PS/2 adapters for some odd reason.

That being said, it's highly unlikely you will need more then the 6 key rollover on the legend over USB.


----------



## ripster

Getting a PS/2 or USB Deck thread is here.

The OP was a better man for going USB.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;12997183*
> The Deck doesn't support USB to PS/2 adapters for some odd reason.


Most USB keyboards do not support such an adapter.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ebolamonkey3;12996896*
> Can someone edit the post w/ keyboards by switch type and add Deck to the cherry clear section?


Lots of Duckys. No Leopolds. I sense a bias in the Force.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;12998319*
> Lots of Duckys. No Leopolds. I sense a bias in the Force.


Tator has been reeeeeeeeally busy the past 2 weeks, plus Leopolds technically still aren't in stock yet (and no full size ones have shown up yet, either). Granted, we don't have Duckys re-ordered yet I think (I'll try to find out this week) but once we do there will be a LOT more variety.


----------



## ShadowFox19

I'm sorry if this is asked a lot, but I can't find my answers.
Two questions:
1. Are Filco's available in the US? If so, where?
2. Can I get a link where the Ducky's are being sold, please?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShadowFox19;12998353*
> 1. Are Filco's available in the US? If so, where?
> 2. Can I get a link where the Ducky's are being sold, please?


1. Link to Filcos on the first page of the guide, just scroll down a bit (post 6).
2. http://www.tankguys.com/site-merchandise.html

Again, I will try to find out this week if we have re-ordered the Duckys for restocking. It's a massive order compared to the first so it took a bit more work to get it done. Of course, it took almost 4 months to get from conception to first order, so this wait is nothing.


----------



## waar

Where can one purchase a model m? Aside from eBay that is. Figured I'd ask here than create a new thread and clutter the subforum even more.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waar;12998620*
> Where can one purchase a model m? Aside from eBay that is. Figured I'd ask here than create a new thread and clutter the subforum even more.


Unicomp Customizer / Space Saver are the modern incarnation. $80+shipping. Google "Unicomp" for their store.


----------



## waar

So if I want an old model m, it's just eBay?

While googling I found clickykeyboards, is the site legit?

Btw thx for the suggestion, I'll go that route if I can't find an old model m.


----------



## Tator Tot

Clicky Keyboards is legit.

@Ripster; no bias. I'll add them up once they actually have keyboard stocks. I even ordered a Leopold.


----------



## waar

I'm not too informed on model M's, but is there a certain year that I should be looking at? Or are they all basically the same thing?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waar;12999082*
> I'm not too informed on model M's, but is there a certain year that I should be looking at? Or are they all basically the same thing?


http://deskthority.net/wiki/IBM_Model_M

That should help.

Model M's have had many small changes over time. Ch_123 should be able to fill you in better, as he's a IBM/Buckling Springs "expert" of sorts.


----------



## waar

Thanks, I'll read it when I get home.


----------



## ch_123

Read this

Filling in Deskthority's keyboard sections is something that I intend on doing when I get the time... in about two months from now









Bottom line tbh, they're all the same. Get a Unicomp and thus get something that has a warranty and is fresh out of the factory.


----------



## ebolamonkey3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


The Deck doesn't support USB to PS/2 adapters for some odd reason.

That being said, it's highly unlikely you will need more then the 6 key rollover on the legend over USB.


Whoa, didn't know that.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Getting a PS/2 or USB Deck thread is here.

The OP was a better man for going USB.


Gotcha, going w/ usb









*Edit: OMG I'm sooo excited I just got a Deck!


----------



## waar

Do the unicomps have the same weight that the model M's have? If so, I'll go with that and go on a hunt for a space saving one in the future.


----------



## ch_123

The original Model Ms (from 1985 and possibly '86) weighed about 2.5kg. By the late eighties, they were down to 2.2kg. By the mid nineties, they were down to 2.0kg. Unicomp Customizers remain arout 2.0kg to this day, and their Spacesaver models are arout 1.7kg due to the more compact casing. The 84-key IBM Space Saving Keyboards are around 1.8kg.

By means of comparison, a fullsize Costar Cherry switch keyboard (such as Filco, Das, Ducky etc) is about 1.2kg, and a Topre Realforce is 1.4kg.


----------



## waar

So they are pretty much a perfect clone? Btw, thx for answering my questions.


----------



## ch_123

Clone implies that someone ... well, cloned it. The Customizer is made to the same IBM specs on the same machinery. With the exception of Windows keys and USB support on certain models, they are otherwise identical to the IBM Model M part number 42H1292 that was made by Lexmark and IBM between 1995 and 1999. So much so that some very late production Model Ms are actually rebranded Customizers.


----------



## waar

Gotcha, thanks. You've been a ton if help.


----------



## webwit

Rebranded as in Unicomp has a lot of different LED labels. Even new style IBM for old style bottom LED position.


----------



## Xazen

I'm looking to buy a new keyboard as my left control button is going out. It doesn't work unless pushing on it really hard, which is really annoying when gaming.

Anyways, any idea when the new OCN duckys are supposed to be available?

I was considering one of the OCN Duckys or something like the Steelseries 6gv2. I plan to use it for both gaming and general typing, but it also must have basic media controls. Any recommendations that I am not considering?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Xazen*


I'm looking to buy a new keyboard as my left control button is going out. It doesn't work unless pushing on it really hard, which is really annoying when gaming.

Anyways, any idea when the new OCN duckys are supposed to be available?


I heard whoever send chunky_chimp the most PM's gets the answer.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Xazen*


Anyways, any idea when the new OCN duckys are supposed to be available?


No ETA, I haven't heard back about the order status for the second shipment. Be patient, it's a massive order to work out; we'll have a LOT more stock this time around plus several more types of Ducky, so it'll be worth the wait.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I heard whoever send chunky_chimp the post PM's gets the answer.


Well you heard wrong, I'll post both here and in the other thread for Duckys once I hear back.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


No ETA, I haven't heard back about the order status for the second shipment. Be patient, it's a massive order to work out; we'll have a LOT more stock this time around plus several more types of Ducky, so it'll be worth the wait.

Well you heard wrong, I'll post both here and in the other thread for Duckys once I hear back.










Dangit I typo'd. I was trying to fill your inbox







.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Dangit I typo'd. I was trying to fill your inbox







.


That would actually take a lot of work, or a lot of automated spamming, which would probably get you banned.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


That would actually take a lot of work, or a lot of automated spamming, which would probably get you banned.










Or 500 members sending a bunch each. What's your limit though, 10k or something?









Not sure how I pressed "P" instead of "M". I'd use this dell keyboard at work as an excuse, but the P is not really anywhere near "M".


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Yeah, 10,000, and I'm not even at half that right now.


----------



## Ikrin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Yeah, 10,000, and I'm not even at half that right now.










Thanks for the info.


----------



## xaque42

I'm currently in the market for a nice mechanical keyboard, I've always been a heavy computer user, but I've recently picked of Starcraft 2, and gotten a few more coding jobs, so I've been really giving my fingers a workout.
I type at around 90-120 WPM, and I find that my fingers are now starting to get tired out after a few hours of work/gaming.
I'm looking for a way to help me avoid typos when coding (cuz they're a pain in the ass to find/correct) and help save me from any RSI's that might come from heavy typing/gaming.
I've done quite a bit of research on mechanical switches, but I haven't had the chance to try them out. From what I've read, MX Browns would suite my needs best (fairly light, tactile feedback, and not too noisy (I work late, don't want to wake the roomies)

Looking at the keyboards that offer MX Browns, the Filco Majestouch series and the Das Ultimate/Professional S series, can anyone give me pros/cons of these keyboards, or other suggestions of keyboards that offer the MX browns (or another switch that you feel could meet my needs).
Here's what I'm looking for:
Tactile feedback
Not super stiff (no MX greys for me)
Not super loud (would prefer to have something quieter than the MX blues)
NKRO (big help with gaming, and if I'm coding whilst sleep deprived)

Thanks in advance for the help


----------



## gonX

MX Browns sound about right. They're more boring to type on than the MX Blues but I like their click better for gaming.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;13008771*
> MX Browns sound about right. They're more boring to type on than the MX Blues but I like their click better for gaming.


Browns click now?


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;13009327*
> Browns click now?


Well, they're not 100% silent. I can hear myself typing while wearing a closed-ear headset.

They're not as loud as blues though.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *webwit;13001859*
> Rebranded as in Unicomp has a lot of different LED labels. Even new style IBM for old style bottom LED position.


Depends on the vintage of Customizer. Some of the older Customizers were 52G9658-style Model Ms. Those labels were probably used on keyboards they made for IBM prior to 2000 or so.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xaque42*


I'm currently in the market for a nice mechanical keyboard, I've always been a heavy computer user, but I've recently picked of Starcraft 2, and gotten a few more coding jobs, so I've been really giving my fingers a workout. 
I type at around 90-120 WPM, and I find that my fingers are now starting to get tired out after a few hours of work/gaming.
I'm looking for a way to help me avoid typos when coding (cuz they're a pain in the ass to find/correct) and help save me from any RSI's that might come from heavy typing/gaming. 
I've done quite a bit of research on mechanical switches, but I haven't had the chance to try them out. From what I've read, MX Browns would suite my needs best (fairly light, tactile feedback, and not too noisy (I work late, don't want to wake the roomies)

Looking at the keyboards that offer MX Browns, the Filco Majestouch series and the Das Ultimate/Professional S series, can anyone give me pros/cons of these keyboards, or other suggestions of keyboards that offer the MX browns (or another switch that you feel could meet my needs).
Here's what I'm looking for:
Tactile feedback
Not super stiff (no MX greys for me)
Not super loud (would prefer to have something quieter than the MX blues)
NKRO (big help with gaming, and if I'm coding whilst sleep deprived)

Thanks in advance for the help


Immediate cons of filco/das. The filco usually uses pad printed keys which wear off after a lot of abuse (which it sounds like you type a lot). Das is glossy so people say it smudges easily and can be annoying to clean. Depends on if you care about that kind of thing. Just note I haven't used a das, I have used a filco. The pad printing honestly isn't as big of a problem as most ppl make it out to be, you won't notice it wearing unless you use it a lot (most cheap keyboards are pad printed). There are other pros/cons but those are the ones discussed most.

Other ones to think about, Ducky keyboards are supposed to be pretty good. You can get an overclock.net version from tankguys. I believe a seller on ebay has them. Leopolds are on elitekeyboards but you may need a tenkey. The full sized ones aren't out yet, and it might be several months before they come out.

MX blues honestly aren't that much louder than brown (I haven't entirely tried them, just pressed the keys of a blackwidow in the box lol), most of the noise comes from bottoming out. The problem is the quality of the sound. MX blues have a very high pitched click that I find annoying. MX browns have a much lower pitch that IMO sounds very good.

People complain they aren't very tactile *cough* ch_123 *cough*







, the thing is it is somewhat subtle and that combined with the low force needed to press them makes them feel linear sometimes compared to other mechanical keyboards. You get used to them though. The tactile 'bump' is pretty high so sometimes if you're used to a stiff keyboard you can almost miss it. It really isn't as bad as I make it sound, the feel is very good. I'm very happy with mine. If I wanted a loud clicky keyboard for typing I'd probably get something with buckling springs over mx blues (for stiffness, since I'm used to stiffer keys).

I just got a keyboard with mx browns less than a week ago. The keys are very light compared to what I'm used to so I'm still bottoming out a lot and hitting extra keys. They are fairly quiet, if you learn to type without bottoming out they are much quieter. I highly recommend them. You should look for a ducky with either blank keys if you like that, or laser etched keys. IIRC ducky usually has better build quality than filco (better materials, plus they use laser etched keys on some of them). I don't remember exactly, wait for someone who knows the specifics







.


----------



## pantalaimon

Hi again. I have had my 6G for one week now, but there is a problem. Here is a copy of the support ticket I sent to SteelSeries:
Quote:


> I have had my SteelSeries 6Gv2 for precisely one week. In this time I have noticed that the lettering on the keys is wearing off. In one instance the lettering is almost completely gone. After one week. This comes as a surprise and disappointment to me because SteelSeries market the 6G as being exceptionally durable, even saying it is "built like a tank". One of the reasons for me buying such an expensive keyboard is material quality and longevity, having been dissatisfied with numerous cheaper keyboards in the past. These keyboards all retained their key lettering for far longer than one week!
> 
> As for what SteelSeries can or will do, this problem does not not appear to be caused by a defect but rather a lapse in quality. A replacement keyboard or key caps would therefore result in the same problem recurring. With this in mind, the only logical solution would appear to be a refund.
> 
> Please advise.


I'm waiting for a reply, but unfortunately I think I'll end up having to return it. Shame, because the keyboard is otherwise pleasing.


----------



## MKB

I have only had my Filco for 3 months...

So I can not give a report of it over the long haul. However it has become my favorite keyboard of all time. The build quality is very nice. I have the tenkeyless version which is a major plus for me as I do not use the num pad. i like to have the mouse closer.

If a nicer keyboard exists I would love to own that as well...

I have the white alps version refered to as the zero...

I have three unicomps and love them as well... I would instantly buy a tenkeyless version of the unicomp buckling spring. However I doubt this will ever happen. I have asked them many times if they would make one...

I would love for Elite Keyboard to sell a Leopold with Buckling Springs.


----------



## RealEyes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;13009360*
> Well, they're not 100% silent. I can hear myself typing while wearing a closed-ear headset.
> 
> They're not as loud as blues though.


So, Blues are louder than browns?

I'm a quick typer/gamer and I'd like something as silent as possible. Guess I'll be look at Brown switches from now on since I don't like the idea of blacks.


----------



## MKB

Went to fry's electronice and they had the:

SIIG JK-US0112-S1

Link: Newegg
Price: $70-80
Switch Type: White Alps (***kas)

On display and available to press the keys...

It is a chance to try the white ***kas for anyone near a fry's that might have this board available to try out...

They also had the Razer BlackWidow

Switch Type: MX Blue
Switch Mounting: Plate

This one was not on display however the box is cut out enough that you can hit the direction keys....

Kind of hard to get a sense for the blues like this...

However they are lighter and quiter than Buckling Spring or the White ***kas.

I may just be a White ***ka fan and a Buckling spring fan...


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


Well, they're not 100% silent. I can hear myself typing while wearing a closed-ear headset.

They're not as loud as blues though.


Remember that clicking is used to describe intentionally clicky keyboards. Referring to non-clicky noisy keyboards as clicky is going to cause confusion.


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Remember that clicking is used to describe intentionally clicky keyboards. Referring to non-clicky noisy keyboards as clicky is going to cause confusion.


Well, tactile then







Give me some space damnit!


----------



## ch_123

New Unicomp Spacesaver Mac variant.

I'm not sure what to make of it.


----------



## Ikrin

Pfft... Mac.


----------



## ch_123

Hurr Windows.

Just sayin'


----------



## Ikrin

Well, I just personally don't think that many pure Mac users care much about other facets of hardware. Macs are meant to be easy, right? I think they'd just be all over their aluminum chiclet keyboards.


----------



## ch_123

If you look up reviews on Google of Unicomp keyboards, quite a good few of them are Mac users. Unicomp offered custom Mac keycaps (command instead of Windows, etc), I guess this is just taking this further to provide a proper mechanical keyboard.

This still doesn't get around the fact that it is hideous.


----------



## Tator Tot

I don't get why Unicomp doesn't try to change the design and offer something more "attractive" to most people.

For that matter though, going for a Mac mech-board, I'd probably choose a Matias again.


----------



## ch_123

Too small, not enough money. They've never made a completely new design, they're all rehashes of what Lexmark used to make.


----------



## MKB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;13033809*
> Too small, not enough money. They've never made a completely new design, they're all rehashes of what Lexmark used to make.


They once thought of making a BS version of the might mouse or mini mouse... The small keyboard that is membrane. But it never happened. I read this up on geekhack...

That is a total shame...


----------



## EarlZ

Is it safe to use 70% Iso alcohol in cleaning the keycaps for the black widow ultimate ?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MKB;13036392*
> They once thought of making a BS version of the might mouse or mini mouse... The small keyboard that is membrane. But it never happened. I read this up on geekhack...
> 
> THat is a total shame...


Correct. The M4-1 (i.e. the Mighty Mouse) is actually very similar in construction to the old M2 buckling spring keyboard, and in theory it would be very easy to adapt it to buckling springs from the rubber sleeve mechanism it used. The only thing that would need to be changed would be the casing to accommodate buckling springs and appropriate keycaps. Again, setting up new plastic molding tools and the appropriate production line costs a lot of money (high tens, if not low hundreds of thousands of dollars), and I'm pretty sure Unicomp isn't going to sell enough to make it worth their time.

Shame, I'd kill a multitude of small, lovable animals for a buckling spring M4-1.


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EarlZ*


Is it safe to use 70% Iso alcohol in cleaning the keycaps for the black widow ultimate ?


It has rubber coating so I wouldn't do it. I know I ruined the rubber coating of my Deathadder rather severely because I used it.


----------



## ch_123

Isopropanol has been known to ruin certain types of keycap in the past. I'd just use baking soda or soapy warm water.


----------



## MKB

Are there replacement Keycaps for the Filco Boards? I have the white ***ka switches but I would be intrested in the answer for the cherry switches as well...


----------



## Crazy9000

Don't think there's any official complete sets.


----------



## ch_123

EliteKeyboards used to sell blank sets at one point.


----------



## EarlZ

Ok then soapy warm water it is, or just plain micro-fiber cloth.

EDIT:

BTW is it normal for the Cherry MX blue to have a different type feeling on the most used keys after a couple of weeks? Coz i think my most used keys feel a bit different compared to other keys like the [];'./ which are rarely used or its just me ?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

They're breaking in. It's normal.


----------



## EarlZ

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*


They're breaking in. It's normal.


So basically they become a tad bit stiffer to press and thats it ?


----------



## vincewchan

I'm jealous of all you Mechanical keyboard owners!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


EliteKeyboards used to sell blank sets at one point.


So did Deck, but there doesn't seem to be any around at the moment.


----------



## murderbymodem

How easy/hard is it to replace a broken Cherry switch? The escape key on my Noppoo Choc seems to have stopped working, and I obviously can't RMA it easily.


----------



## Donq

Error?

Elite keyboards says that the 103 does not support ctrl/CapsLock swapping, but the guide on the first page of OC "Mechanical Keyboard Guide" says it does. The guide also says that the "Numpad can be purchased separately" for this keyboard. Seems like overkill for a keyboard that already has one built-in. Maybe this part of the guide needs some editing.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redmist;13079041*
> How easy/hard is it to replace a broken Cherry switch? The escape key on my Noppoo Choc seems to have stopped working, and I obviously can't RMA it easily.


Pretty easy. Guide here.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


How easy/hard is it to replace a broken Cherry switch? The escape key on my Noppoo Choc seems to have stopped working, and I obviously can't RMA it easily.










Do you have soldering experience? What kind of Iron do you have?

It's pretty easy, and a few different places like Digikey and Newark have them. Though some switches are harder to find than others.

MX Browns, Blacks, and Blues are pretty easy. MX Reds and Clears are much harder though.


----------



## Ikrin

I'm sure Manyak could help you with switches.


----------



## murderbymodem

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Pretty easy.  Guide here.


Thanks.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Do you have soldering experience? What kind of Iron do you have?

It's pretty easy, and a few different places like Digikey and Newark have them. Though some switches are harder to find than others.

MX Browns, Blacks, and Blues are pretty easy. MX Reds and Clears are much harder though.


Very little, but I think I may be able to manage. It's on my list of things to learn/get better at, so this is a good opportunity. If not, my Dad is somewhat okay at it. I'd have to look at what kind of iron my Dad has. It probably isn't anything special. I could always buy one if you guys know of a good one that won't break my bank.

My Choc uses Blacks, but the question is do I need PCB mount or faceplate mount?


----------



## ripster

Smell the lead solder. Become a man.

Unless of course you're a girl. That last part is optional.


----------



## webstar

Has anyone tried 6Gv2 and how it compares to G15 rev2?


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webstar*


Has anyone tried 6Gv2 and how it compares to G15 rev2?


It'll feel very different. Probably much better for gaming, especially if you have an old G15.


----------



## webstar

It doesn't have USB ports and audio/mic jacks, does it? I've been unable to find info on that...


----------



## Tennobanzai

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webstar*


It doesn't have USB ports and audio/mic jacks, does it? I've been unable to find info on that...


I believe it doesn't. The 7G does but the 6gv2 is basically a stripped down version.


----------



## Donq

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Donq*


Error?

Elite keyboards says that the 103 does not support ctrl/CapsLock swapping, but the guide on the first page of OC "Mechanical Keyboard Guide" says it does. ...


Oops! Fast work, but you changed the 86U also. The 86U *does* support ctrl/CapsLock swapping. Sorry to be such a pain, but that little tidbit is item #1 on my keyboard "must have" list.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Redmist*


Thanks.

Very little, but I think I may be able to manage. It's on my list of things to learn/get better at, so this is a good opportunity. If not, my Dad is somewhat okay at it. I'd have to look at what kind of iron my Dad has. It probably isn't anything special. I could always buy one if you guys know of a good one that won't break my bank.

My Choc uses Blacks, but the question is do I need PCB mount or faceplate mount?


If you want a good soldering setup it's like $100

Still though, the plate mounted switches are the ones you want.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webstar*


It doesn't have USB ports and audio/mic jacks, does it? I've been unable to find info on that...


Nope, just multimedia keys.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Donq*


Oops! Fast work, but you changed the 86U also. The 86U *does* support ctrl/CapsLock swapping. Sorry to be such a pain, but that little tidbit is item #1 on my keyboard "must have" list.


Ah, I'll get to fixing it in a few moments.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


If you want a good soldering setup it's like $100

Still though, the plate mounted switches are the ones you want.

Nope, just multimedia keys.

Ah, I'll get to fixing it in a few moments.


You don't need to start with an expensive one though. A cheap one will be just fine at first. You just have to be careful because some of the cheap ones get pretty hot and can melt/burn stuff you're not trying to solder if you're not careful







.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drjoey1500;13092555*
> You don't need to start with an expensive one though. A cheap one will be just fine at first. You just have to be careful because some of the cheap ones get pretty hot and can melt/burn stuff you're not trying to solder if you're not careful
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


In terms of soldering equipment, $100 is rather cheap for a solder station.

Most people don't have quiet the practice to handle some of the smaller jobs with the cheaper irons.

Though for a Cherry MX-Switch, as long as your hand is steady, the iron shouldn't be a huge concern.


----------



## nateman_doo

wow?! 1100 pages of keyboards?! incredible write up though.


----------



## apoct

This guide is phenomenal. Really, I don't use that word often, but this guide is just that.

Thanks to this guide, I ordered a Das Keyboard Model S Ultimate Silent (Cherry MX Brown). I could not be happier, by far the best keyboard I've used for both typing and gaming. I've had this keyboard for about a month now and just ordered a second one about 15 minutes ago (but a Professional, not the Ultimate).

Thanks to OP and everyone who has contributed to this guide.


----------



## ripster

It's OK. I've seen better. Especially in the accuracy department.


----------



## Crazy9000

Google say OCN number one!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


It's OK. I've seen better. Especially in the accuracy department.


If there is any incorrect info, let me know.









If you wish to say things are wrong without pointing out what is, then please be quiet.


----------



## ripster

This section is WAY too biased toward PS/2. Especially the bit about having support for a mode in one sentence and then in the next saying nobody supports it.

Quote:



PS/2 or USB?
PS/2 wins on three fronts: First, it supports full n-key rollover. Second, PS/2 keyboards aren't polled, but are completely interrupt based. And third, it is impossible for it to be delayed by the USB bus being used by other devices. There are two types of USB transfer modes - the interrupt transfer mode (USB polls keyboard, when key is sensed the USB controller sends the interrupt to the CPU), and the isochronous transfer mode, which reserves a certain amount of bandwidth for the keyboard with a guaranteed latency on the bus. Unfortunately, there are absolutely no keyboards made that use the latter, because special controllers would have to be used, thus making it cost prohibitive.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


This section is WAY too biased toward PS/2. Especially the bit about having support for a mode in one sentence and then in the next saying nobody supports it.


It's biased towards ps/2, but it isn't wrong. Opinion is a big factor, and the guide has a right to have one







. Remember- this is a GUIDE, not a wiki or encyclopedia article.

Also, you have to admit you are quite biased AGAINST ps/2







.


----------



## ripster

USB 3.0 supports more power.

Too bad there are no USB 3.0 keyboards.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13106068*
> USB 3.0 supports more power.
> 
> Too bad there are no USB 3.0 keyboards.


More power?










^ Razer USB 3 keyboard user of the future.


----------



## ripster

PS/2 keyboards are supposed to be faster.

Too bad nobody has ever seen the difference.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13096726*
> In terms of soldering equipment, $100 is rather cheap for a solder station.
> 
> Most people don't have quiet the practice to handle some of the smaller jobs with the cheaper irons.
> 
> Though for a Cherry MX-Switch, as long as your hand is steady, the iron shouldn't be a huge concern.


True, but not for your average person. By cheap I mean the $20 ones you get at an electronics store with no adjustments or anything. Most people start out with one of those which is as it should be.

I started out with one of those and my first few attempts at soldering were a complete mess. That was because I was taking too long and the solder wasn't sticking. Just get some extra flux, that would've fixed the problems I was having. All he really needs is some desoldering braid, solder, and a cheap iron. Flux is optional, it will make it easier if the solder isn't sticking (i.e. you do like I did my first couple times and take a long time so all the flux from the solder is gone). You don't need a good iron to change one switch.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13106245*
> PS/2 keyboards are supposed to be faster.
> 
> Too bad nobody has ever seen the difference.


OH RLY??!?!?!?!?!?

)[email protected]*(M>TN%

THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPED OVER THE LAZY...........

^Try THAT over USB. noob.















Lol. /sarcasm


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13105876*
> This section is WAY too biased toward PS/2. Especially the bit about having support for a mode in one sentence and then in the next saying nobody supports it.


It's all accurate information and you are saying there is a bias because it conflicts with your opinion?

I fail to see what is wrong there besides a conflict of opinions. PS/2 is a better choice if the option is available. If you buy a keyboard like the Noppoo Choc, Realforce, HHKB, or others; and USB is your only option, then use it and be happy that you have a keyboard which is nice to type on.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13106669*
> It's all accurate information and you are saying there is a bias because it conflicts with your opinion?
> 
> I fail to see what is wrong there besides a conflict of opinions. PS/2 is a better choice if the option is available. If you buy a keyboard like the Noppoo Choc, Realforce, HHKB, or others; and USB is your only option, then use it and be happy that you have a keyboard which is nice to type on.


Or be like me and find one with ps/2!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;13107023*
> Or be like me and find one with ps/2!


And thus pay out all orifices for it


----------



## ripster

I am saying only NKRO is an observable benefit. So only one out of three statements is correct.
Quote:


> PS/2 or USB?
> PS/2 wins on three fronts: First, it supports full n-key rollover. Second, PS/2 keyboards aren't polled, but are completely interrupt based. And third, it is impossible for it to be delayed by the USB bus being used by other devices. There are two types of USB transfer modes - the interrupt transfer mode (USB polls keyboard, when key is sensed the USB controller sends the interrupt to the CPU), and the isochronous transfer mode, which reserves a certain amount of bandwidth for the keyboard with a guaranteed latency on the bus. Unfortunately, there are absolutely no keyboards made that use the latter, because special controllers would have to be used, thus making it cost prohibitive.


I'm finding it difficult to make recommendations for technical corrections in this 11788 post thread.


----------



## Tator Tot

The others are benefits as well. They may not be noticable, but then again, most of us don't notice 3Ghz from 4Ghz most of the time. We still go the extra step so we've got the best of the best.

It is a benefit.

You shouldn't find it hard to offer suggestions as there are only 10 posts to look at. You don't need to worry about the rest.


----------



## ripster

I don't see a difference in latencies between USB and PS/2.

Do you?


----------



## Tator Tot

I could do a latency test and show you.


----------



## ch_123

The introduction to the guide never actually defines what a mechanical keyswitch is.

Also, the section for the SIIG JK keyboard reports that dirt getting into the switch causes problems. For the sake of consistency, I'd suggest either removing this, or adding the same section to every Cherry keyboard...


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13107159*
> I don't see a difference in latencies between USB and PS/2.
> 
> Do you?


Just because you can't notice the difference doesn't mean it isn't there. Also, there is a good amount of people that would be interested in using ps/2 just because it COULD give them the slightest of advantages. Even if you can't A/B the response time, if one responds just the littlest bit faster, you could have your key respond before the other persons does.

The very slight inconvenience of ps/2 is well worth the benefits for a large amount of people. For example, my keyboard sits plugged into my computer all day, without ever moving. I would say most people are in this situation. Also, most motherboards still ship with ps/2 ports on them.

There is literally NO reason to choose USB over PS/2, unless they want to use the keyboard with a laptop, or they change keyboards often. The macro keyboards that need USB don't offer ps/2 models, so that really isn't a point in a ps/2 vs USB discussion.


----------



## nateman_doo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tator tot;13102977*
> if you wish to say things are wrong without pointing out what is, then please be quiet.


+1000


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;13107944*
> Just because you can't notice the difference doesn't mean it isn't there. Also, there is a good amount of people that would be interested in using ps/2 just because it COULD give them the slightest of advantages. Even if you can't A/B the response time, if one responds just the littlest bit faster, you could have your key respond before the other persons does.
> 
> The very slight inconvenience of ps/2 is well worth the benefits for a large amount of people. For example, my keyboard sits plugged into my computer all day, without ever moving. I would say most people are in this situation. Also, most motherboards still ship with ps/2 ports on them.
> 
> There is literally NO reason to choose USB over PS/2, unless they want to use the keyboard with a laptop, or they change keyboards often. The macro keyboards that need USB don't offer ps/2 models, so that really isn't a point in a ps/2 vs USB discussion.


I seriously doubt thousands of pro level gamers are on PS/2.

The logic of the "Every Last Bit Of Latency Counts Because it's OCN" contradicts this section of the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide. And I DO NOT see any Razer Black Widow users claiming to see a difference either.
Quote:


> Polling Rates and Response Times
> While it is very useful for mice, it's just about meaningless for keyboards. Let's assume for a minute that all switches have the 5ms debouncing time of Cherry MX switches (which is being very generous). Even if you had super human speed and reflexes, every single key would be delayed by at least that much. So really, any polling rate over 200Hz (at best) is absolutely useless, and nothing but market hype. It may even be a bit detrimental, because you'd be wasting CPU time polling the keyboard unneededly. And unlike USB keyboards, PS/2 boards aren't polled at all. They simply send the signal to the PC whenever they are ready to, which causes a hardware interrupt, forcing the CPU to register that keystroke.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;13107901*
> The introduction to the guide never actually defines what a mechanical keyswitch is.
> 
> Also, the section for the SIIG JK keyboard reports that dirt getting into the switch causes problems. For the sake of consistency, I'd suggest either removing this, or adding the same section to every Cherry keyboard...


I think I'm going to add that to both the MX-Blue and Alps sections actually.

As for the opening; I haven't really found a good definition of what a mechanical switch is that fits BS, Alps, and Cherry MX switches _yet_. I want a definition that is broad enough to cover most switches while still staying relevant.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13109777*
> I seriously doubt thousands of pro level gamers are on PS/2.
> 
> The logic of the "Every Last Bit Of Latency Counts Because it's OCN" contradicts this section of the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide. And I DO NOT see any Razer Black Widow users claiming to see a difference either.


No it doesn't, as it says that the key delay will stop you before polling speed. The Keybounce delay is a larger factor in that case, and one you cannot change.

At this point, you are trolling based on a conflict of interests. PS/2 is better and you do not like that fact. For what reason, I can't understand.

If you have any other suggestions, let me know.


----------



## ripster

Well, thanks for listening anyway!


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


As for the opening; I haven't really found a good definition of what a mechanical switch is that fits BS, Alps, and Cherry MX switches _yet_. I want a definition that is broad enough to cover most switches while still staying relevant.


I like mine. It acknowledges the meaningless nature of its contemporary usage before giving a technically correct definition.


----------



## ripster

You know I wouldn't mind seeing a PS/2 to USB latency test. I haven't really seen a good convincing one.

These guys sure weren't convinced and they are SW developers.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13123951*
> You know I wouldn't mind seeing a PS/2 to USB latency test. I haven't really seen a good convincing one.
> 
> These guys sure weren't convinced and they are SW developers.


Well they just degenerated into a flame war too







. I don't think that source really says anything in the end.


----------



## ripster

I still think it's odd that the OP doesn't mention ANY of the advantages of USB. Seems a bit biased.


----------



## Crazy9000

Advantages being convenience, and maybe the ability to do macros? Also future proof.

Maybe if it was just broken down to a list of pro's and con's for each interface, without recommending one, then nobody could complain







.


----------



## ripster

I wonder if the Mionix is USB only? The Razer is. So is the $275 Realforce. And the $275 Happy Hacking Professional 2.

Nobody seems to complain about that.


----------



## Ikrin

People don't seem to be complaining about the lack of keyboards with full NKRO over USB, which can be done, but has only been implemented by a few manufacturers. You wouldn't think it'd be that much of a hassle over offering it over PS/2.


----------



## ripster

Especially now with Windows 7 SP1 getting rid of the USB 26KRO bug.

Never know when you need 104KRO.


----------



## n19htmare

So what's the verdict on best bang for buck when it comes to quality/performace?

I got about $120 to drop on a mechanical keyboard (+- a few).

1181 page thread is bit hard to navigate through so I appologize in advance, plus last few posts have just been talking about ps2 vs USB.

As far as what I am looking for:
I'd say 50/50 typing/gaming
I do like the clicky tactile feel/sound.

Been looking at the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate line, It's clicky (Mx Blue from what I read), it has backlight and the macro keys (I loved this on my G15). I liked the way it typed when I tested it at a local store. But from the reading I been doing, I have not been hearing good things about them as far as quality goes, that's kinda been a turnoff. I can part with backlight and the macro (If I have to). But I'd really like something that's not going to fail in a few months down the road.

Thanks in advance for your advice.


----------



## MKB

Quote:



Originally Posted by *n19htmare*


So what's the verdict on best bang for buck when it comes to quality/performace?

I got about $120 to drop on a mechanical keyboard (+- a few).

1181 page thread is bit hard to navigate through so I appologize in advance, plus last few posts have just been talking about ps2 vs USB.

As far as what I am looking for:
I'd say 50/50 typing/gaming
I do like the clicky tactile feel/sound.

Been looking at the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate line, It's clicky (Mx Blue from what I read), it has backlight and the macro keys (I loved this on my G15). I liked the way it typed when I tested it at a local store. But from the reading I been doing, I have not been hearing good things about them as far as quality goes, that's kinda been a turnoff. I can part with backlight and the macro (If I have to). But I'd really like something that's not going to fail in a few months down the road.

Thanks in advance for your advice.


I really like the Filcos...

I have the tenkeyless and it is sweet.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



1181 page thread is bit hard to navigate through so I appologize in advance, plus last few posts have just been talking about ps2 vs USB.


Yah. Sorry about talking about the OP.

In my opinion the Leopold $99 deal is hard to beat. Brown Cherries is the safest choice. Blues are awesome.









Why it's not in the OP is a bit unclear to me since hundreds have shipped (if you assume the order numbers are sequential which they seem to be).


----------



## reaper~

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *n19htmare*   As far as what I am looking for:
I'd say 50/50 typing/gaming
I do like the clicky tactile feel/sound.  
Like everyone else said, you can't go wrong with either a    Filco or a Leopold with Cherry MX blue switches (though, no backlit with either one).

Leopold has only been out a few weeks so we can't really tell you how long it'll last but judging from the one I have, it seems sturdy enough and should last you for awhile.

Also both are within your budget. Leopold is within your budget but Filco is $20 over so just get a Leopold.


----------



## ripster

Hard to justify the $40 premium of a Filco over a Leopold.

Let me grab my calculator.....

That's a 40% upcharge!


----------



## reaper~

^ Oh wait, you're right ripster. That Filco on Amazon is $140 so that's a little over his budget ($120).


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reaper~;13130416*
> ^ Oh wait, you're right ripster. That Filco on Amazon is $140 so that's a little over his budget ($120).


Even if his budget allowed for the $140, I can't see why anyone would pay that much more for the Filco.


----------



## n19htmare

I probably should have mentioned this in my 1st post.
Tenkeyless is not an option. I need the 10 keys (Finance Manager and will likely use it at work).

Is the Razer really that bad? It's about $120 shipped from Amazon.

I don't mean to be difficult, If I am going to dish out the dough, I might as well do it once and not have regrets later.


----------



## gonX

The Leopolds are leaps and bounds ahead to the Razer BlackWidow. Granted, the BlackWidow is better than most generic keyboards though.


----------



## n19htmare

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


The Leopolds are leaps and bounds ahead to the Razer BlackWidow. Granted, the BlackWidow is better than most generic keyboards though.


So I've read haha. But thing that holds me back right now is that they are 10keyless. I use the 10key 30% of the time i'd say.

Also, what are everyone's thoughts on the Ducky?
I realize they are out of stock right now, so I guess will have to get inline.

Wonder if the $30 extra is worth the Special Edition which has the etched keys.


----------



## reaper~

Quote:



Originally Posted by *n19htmare*


I probably should have mentioned this in my 1st post. 
Tenkeyless is not an option. I need the 10 keys (Finance Manager and will likely use it at work).


Well, a full size Leopold is coming. It's just a matter of time before EK stock them.. so if you can wait (link).


----------



## gonX

I forgot about that







If you don't mind the unprofessionalism of having a gaming keyboard (with IMO a horrible font), go for it








Alternatively you can get a Deck keyboard, but they're quite expensive...

https://www.deckkeyboards.com/produc...products_id=95
https://www.deckkeyboards.com/produc...products_id=96


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *n19htmare*


So I've read haha. But thing that holds me back right now is that they are 10keyless. I use the 10key 30% of the time i'd say.

Also, what are everyone's thoughts on the Ducky?
I realize they are out of stock right now, so I guess will have to get inline.

Wonder if the $30 extra is worth the Special Edition which has the etched keys.


$30 is worth it for the keys IMO. I think OCN is trying to get some, but I'm not sure how long that will take.

You said you wanted browns right? Ducky special edition with browns on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Ducky-keyboard-y...item3cb6faeaa8


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Why it's not in the OP is a bit unclear to me since hundreds have shipped (if you assume the order numbers are sequential which they seem to be).


Tator already answered you about this.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Clicky Keyboards is legit.

*@Ripster; no bias. I'll add them up once they actually have keyboard stocks. I even ordered a Leopold.*


----------



## n19htmare

The difference between Leopald 10keyless (blue mx) and Filco 10keyless (blue mx) is $21.33 for me (Leopald being the cheaper one).

Decisions Decisions, wish I could test them before buying lol (brown vs. Blue). I have tested blue and really like the tactile feel and kinda like the clicky sound too. 
Wish I could test the browns somewhere.


----------



## gonX

Browns are feel a bit like scissor switches, except they're high quality, a bit more crisp and with a longer travel distance.

The click is much, much more subtle. I like them better than blues, even for typing. I find the blues a bit too distracting in terms of tactility.


----------



## reaper~

Quote:



Originally Posted by *n19htmare*


Decisions Decisions, wish I could test them before buying lol (brown vs. Blue). I have tested blue and really like the tactile feel and kinda like the clicky sound too. 
Wish I could test the browns somewhere.


^ Drive to L.A. and I'll let you try Filco blues, Leopold browns, etc.


----------



## waar

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reaper~*


^ Drive to L.A. and I'll let you try Filco blues, Leopold browns, etc.










let me try that realforce for a year


----------



## reaper~

Quote:



Originally Posted by *waar*


let me try that realforce for a year










lol Not many people like Topre switches after having tried them. It feels totally different than Cherry switches. And after all the different switches I've tried, blacks are still my fave with browns in close second (still haven't got one with clear switches yet but I'm working on that).


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reaper~*


lol Not many people like Topre switches after having tried them. It feels totally different than Cherry switches. And after all the different switches I've tried, blacks are still my fave with browns in close second (still haven't got one with clear switches yet but I'm working on that).


What do you mean? Most people who have used the Topre switches seem to prefer them. They tend not to like them at very first try though, since they feel so different from the normal mechanical switches.

My first week with my realforce I didn't like it much, the second week I thought it was okay, and now I probably won't ever buy a keyboard with Cherry switches.


----------



## waar

i like blues, then browns, and finally blacks. would like to try out topre one day. when i get the money!


----------



## clownfart

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *n19htmare*   The difference between Leopald 10keyless (blue mx) and Filco 10keyless (blue mx) is $21.33 for me (Leopald being the cheaper one).

Decisions Decisions, wish I could test them before buying lol (brown vs. Blue). I have tested blue and really like the tactile feel and kinda like the clicky sound too. 
Wish I could test the browns somewhere.  
Check out the    Adesso ? Also take a look at the Steelseries boards. They have linear switches, I think those are great to type on. I wouldn't consider getting a backlit board, just money better spent elsewhere.


----------



## reaper~

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


What do you mean? Most people who have used the Topre switches seem to prefer them. They tend not to like them at very first try though, since they feel so different from the normal mechanical switches.


Yup, you're right. Maybe it's just me then.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reaper~*


Yup, you're right. Maybe it's just me then.










Obviously not everyone is going to like the same thing. I hate Cherry pie for example.

Generalizing though, most people tend to like them. The lack of popularity is due to the high price.


----------



## clownfart

Could also be how they are over hyped as the best, and when people try them, they are disappointed.


----------



## n19htmare

Made my mind up.

Going with the DAS Professional with the MX Blue. Appears to be better quality then razer, You lose backlight and macro, but you gain NKRO & possibly some quality.

Would have liked the backlight and macro of the Blackwidow but such a mixed bag of reviews. Eventhough manyak's review over at Geekhacks is very convincing.

aghhh i hate this, wish I had the money to try them alllllll and keep the one I like haha.


----------



## ch_123

I'd have recommended a Unicomp, but oh well.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reaper~*


lol Not many people like Topre switches after having tried them. It feels totally different than Cherry switches.


Is this to say that the quality of a switch should be gauged by how similar to a Cherry switch it feels?


----------



## reaper~

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Is this to say that the quality of a switch should be gauged by how similar to a Cherry switch it feels?


Hmm.. I don't think I mention anything about quality of Topre in my previous post(s) but then again, I may have missed it.


----------



## n19htmare

So here is the final rundown.

I decided to go with (well already placed order on Amazon) Filco Blue mx for the home computer. I Can give up numpad as I do not really use it at home.

I decided to get the Das Professional Silent for work.

I feel I made the right choices, well I hope I did because spending $140 on a simple keyboard without numpad is quite a bit of dough.

This way, I get to try the FULL keyboard, Tenkeyless, Blue MX and Brown MX all at once







.


----------



## clownfart

Filco has a really solid build, great stabilizers, and the best looking legends. Definitely worth the $140.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;13131449*
> Tator already answered you about this.


Leopolds are shipping. They are ALL over the place now.


----------



## ch_123

I agree. It's like the same thing, with better keycaps, except $40 less.


----------



## clownfart

From the people I've talked to that have both, they still seem to prefer the filco for a number of reasons.


----------



## De-Zant

The steelseries mechanicals have the same sized keycaps as every the filco keyboards?

Because I was thinking of ordering me some WASD keycaps for my 6gv2.

I was thinking of something like this

http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=640

and

http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=632 (just for the convenience)

These guys ship internationally, right? How much would it cost, and how long would it take to ship these items here? I'm wondering if it's even worth the effort.


----------



## DarthBaiter

Filco is better built then the Leopolds. Sorry to my paisanos...

Not sure if it's worth $40 dollars more, but it does seem to have better QC. The Leopold had minor markings and blemishes. Very small, but there nonetheless.
Other than that, it all seems about to be aesthetics.
Do you want smooth keys and textured frame or textured keys and smooth frame? Small curves or big curves around the edges. Led on the frame or on the N,C,S, caps.
If I was getting new Tenkeyless KB for my kids or wife, I'd get em a Leopold, but if I had to get one for me, I'd get the Filco.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarthBaiter;13148866*
> If I was getting new Tenkeyless KB for my kids or wife, I'd get em a Leopold, but if I had to get one for me, I'd get the Filco.


Wise man. This is what I do as well. My wife/kid are on Buckling Spring Unicomp Spacesavers.

In fact I recommend the cheaper keyboards to all Keyboard Noobs so I feel more leet and limited edition.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *De-Zant;13148860*
> The steelseries mechanicals have the same sized keycaps as every the filco keyboards?


Yes.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp;13131449*
> Tator already answered you about this.


OK, NOW it says it's in stock.

Before it was just shipping in volume.


----------



## litster

Wasn't it $99? Now it is $109?


----------



## n19htmare

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13150515*
> OK, NOW it says it's in stock.
> 
> Before it was just shipping in volume.


Wow. And I just got my Filco delivered this morning (Ordered Friday, yay Amazon Prime!). lol.

Would have saved $22 dollars going with Leopald, Now at $109($129 Shipped) it's only $10 less then a Filco($139 Shipped). Not much of a saving for us people in CA.


----------



## ripster

Isn't double posting discouraged at OCN?

Of course why this would be a big deal in a 11,848 post thread escapes me.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Isn't double posting discouraged at OCN?


Yeah two posts in a row less than 24h away from each other technically break the rules.

Not that the mods always go crazy over it. And that's good. Sometimes it should be acceptable.


----------



## ripster

Actually it's the same content in two different threads.

That's probably OK.

Sure glad I'm not a mod. I'm sure many of the people in this thread agree.


----------



## DarthBaiter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *litster;13151105*
> Wasn't it $99? Now it is $109?


$99 was the pre order price.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarthBaiter;13156623*
> $99 was the pre order price.


Yup. It makes us who pre-ordered that much more 1337







.


----------



## n19htmare

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13151512*
> Actually it's the same content in two different threads.
> 
> That's probably OK.
> 
> Sure glad I'm not a mod. I'm sure many of the people in this thread agree.


Sorry if you were offended.


----------



## ripster

No problem. Just thinking I was having a flashback.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


OK, NOW it says it's in stock.

Before it was just shipping in volume.


I'd like to say he's been too busy to do it, but I checked the post again and the links are there, despite edit history not showing him adding them. Strange...


----------



## demerix

some errors on the blackwidow and blackwidow ultimate specs:

Razer BlackWidow Ultimate
*Price: $130*

Razer BlackWidow
*Extra Features: (no usb/audio passthrough)*


----------



## csjesse

looking for a recommendation here,

have the following in mind.. play sc2 and some fps, feel free to recommend another board

DAS professional s silent (mx brown)
Tt Meka g1 (mx black)
Leopold FC200RT/AB (mx brown)

I can get the das for <100$ shipped, but really just looking for quality. heard from someone the das keys wear out quickly!


----------



## TheMafia

amazing post OP!!!

thank you! im all new to this....perfect for my eyes!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13130179*
> Why it's not in the OP is a bit unclear to me since hundreds have shipped (if you assume the order numbers are sequential which they seem to be).


Obviously you are blind, ignorant, or just trying to troll as they have been up there.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csjesse;13175395*
> looking for a recommendation here,
> 
> have the following in mind.. play sc2 and some fps, feel free to recommend another board
> 
> DAS professional s silent (mx brown)
> Tt Meka g1 (mx black)
> Leopold FC200RT/AB (mx brown)
> 
> I can get the das for <100$ shipped, but really just looking for quality. heard from someone the das keys wear out quickly!


TT Meka G1 would be my recommendation if you can find it around $100. If not, I'd just get a Das Pro S Silent
Quote:


> some errors on the blackwidow and blackwidow ultimate specs:
> 
> Razer BlackWidow Ultimate
> *Price: $130*
> 
> Razer BlackWidow
> *Extra Features: (no usb/audio passthrough)*


Fixed


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13176380*
> Obviously you are blind, ignorant, or just trying to troll as they have been up there.


Blind, Ignorant Or Trolling?

Excuse Me?

I really don't understand why people can't comment on the guide without being jumped on.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manyak;6025244*
> *Keyboards By Switch Type*
> 
> *----Common Switch Types----*
> 
> *Buckling Spring*
> IBM Model M - All Pre-1994, Some Post-1994
> Most Unicomp Keyboards
> 
> *Topre*
> Happy Hacking Pro 2
> Realforce
> Epson InterKX IKXFKB
> 
> *Cherry MX Blue*
> iOne Scorpius M10
> iOne Scorpius M10 BL
> Ducky DK-9008
> Ducky DK-9000
> Ducky DK-1008
> Ducky DK-1087
> Ducky DK-9008-G2
> Cherry G80-3000 LSCRC-2
> iOne Scorpius 35
> Das Model S
> 
> *Cherry MX Brown*
> Filco FKBN104M/EB
> Filco FKBN87M/EB
> Ducky DK-9008
> Ducky DK-9000
> Ducky DK-1008
> Ducky DK-1087
> Ducky DK-9008-G2
> Filco FKB104M/EB
> FKB22MB
> Compaq MX 11800
> Compaq 11802
> Cherry G80-3000
> 
> *Cherry MX Red*
> Cherry G80-3600LYCEU-0
> 
> *Cherry MX Black*
> Deck Keyboards
> Ducky DK-9008-G2
> Ducky DK-9008
> Ducky DK-9000
> Ducky DK-1008
> Ducky DK-1087
> Steelseries 7G
> Cherry MX 11900
> Cherry G80-3000LPCEU-0
> 
> *Simplified ALPS Black*
> ABS M1
> 
> *Simplified ALPS White*
> Matias Tactile Pro 2.0
> Solidtek ASK-6600U
> Solidtek KB-6600ABU
> SIIG Minitouch
> Kinesis Evolution
> 
> *Original ALPS Black*
> Dell AT101W
> 
> *Original ALPS White*
> Focus 2000
> Focus 2001
> Focus FK-5001
> Unitek K-258
> Nan Tan KB-6551
> 
> 
> *----Uncommon Switch Types----*
> 
> *SMK "Monterey" Switches*
> Chicony KB-5181
> 
> *Cherry ML Black*
> Optimus Maximus
> Cherry ML4100


----------



## Tator Tot

Yes, they're in the other list. You're nitpicking hairs at this point and that list is noted to be out of date.


----------



## csjesse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13176380*
> TT Meka G1 would be my recommendation if you can find it around $100. If not, I'd just get a Das Pro S Silent


thanks... are the black switches really that big of a pain for typing? this is the only idea stopping me from buying the g1 (over a mx brown)


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csjesse;13176517*
> thanks... are the black switches really that big of a pain for typing? this is the only idea stopping me from buying the g1 (over a mx brown)


If you are coming off a rubber dome board, not really.

There's no tactile feel, so until you get your muscle memory used to the idea of not bottoming out it'll feel a bit stiff to you.

Beyond that though, the travel is pretty smooth and requires the same amount of force as most domes do.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13176536*
> If you are coming off a rubber dome board, not really.
> 
> There's no tactile feel, so until you get your muscle memory used to the idea of not bottoming out it'll feel a bit stiff to you.
> 
> Beyond that though, the travel is pretty smooth and requires the same amount of force as most domes do.


My mom never really used a mech keyboard and instantly hated the blacks. Some people love them for typing too though.

Personally, I'd just go for the blacks







.


----------



## runeazn

if you have heavy fingers you would like the black you have soft fingers i recommend the red switch







but if you cant get the red switch i recommend the brown







red isnt rare anymore









they are in the order catalog of cherry.


----------



## csjesse

:XXX

i am coming off of a crappy Saitek eclipse II.

the meka G1 does look solid, think i'll grab it for ~110$ shipped and pray the blacks aren't too stiff









thanks again


----------



## EarlZ

Do all the Cherry MX keys ( of the same color ) exactly feel the same regardless of the branding on the keyboard?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EarlZ;13177891*
> Do all the Cherry MX keys ( of the same color ) exactly feel the same regardless of the branding on the keyboard?


For the most part, yes.

Cherry MX Brown, Blue, & Clear switches change over time though.

Brown & Clears become less tactile.

Blues become more stiff.

Red's & Blacks stay consistent though.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EarlZ;13177891*
> Do all the Cherry MX keys ( of the same color ) exactly feel the same regardless of the branding on the keyboard?


The keyboard's construction, and the quality of the keycaps have some impact on the feel.

Plus, there's the people with the various conspiracy theories. Dark brown vs light brown and all that. I'm probably going to get black bagged just for mentioning it


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EarlZ;13177891*
> Do all the Cherry MX keys ( of the same color ) exactly feel the same regardless of the branding on the keyboard?


Big difference between PCB and Plate mounted.

But maybe I'm being nitpicky.


----------



## n19htmare

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EarlZ;13177891*
> Do all the Cherry MX keys ( of the same color ) exactly feel the same regardless of the branding on the keyboard?


To rephrase what's already been said, swith may sound/feel the same, but other aspects of the keyboard may change things.

For example, Both The BlackWidow and the Filco have the Blue MX switches, but have a distinctive sound. More then likely due to the key caps.

The Filco caps are thinner, slightly larger and taller.
The blackwidow caps are slight thicker and smaller.

Because of this, the Blackwidow Blue mx don't sound as clicky as the Filco.

I just ordered a DAS for my work. I went with the Blue MX again. haha. Now I'm wondering if I should have gone with the Brown to keep things slightly quiet. But I been using the Blackwidow at work and it's really not that loud....Wonder how loud the DAS is going to be....Youtube vids don't help much...to me Browns sounded just as loud as the Blues on Youtube.


----------



## ripster

Das keys are identical to Filco keys other than the lettering.

Sound samples here. Not a big difference.


----------



## n19htmare

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Das keys are identical to Filco keys other than the lettering.

Sound samples here. Not a big difference.


I just like blues mx too much.... lol.

Co-Workers will just have to put up with it....


----------



## HometownHero

Thanks to the OP for such a comprehensive overview of the world of mechanical keyboards. I had no idea they were so involved until I found this thread.

I have a Sidewinder X4 and my friend just purchased a BlackWidow. I used it in a game of SC2 and fell in love with the feel and its accuracy. The click noise of each keystroke is also pretty addicting to hear.

After reading this thread and look around Geekhack, are my only choices for mechanical gaming keyboards the BlackWidow or a SteelSeries if I am restricted to a sub-$100 budget?

I primarily play Starcraft 2 and when Battlefield 3 drops, I will be playing a lot of that. Additionally, I am in law school and do A LOT of typing. Is there a keyboard out there for me?


----------



## ripster

Well, there USED to be $99 Leopolds. $109 now. Skip lunch one day.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Well, there USED to be $99 Leopolds. $109 now. Skip lunch one day.


These are the boards made primarily by former Filco employees? Its hard to even find Filco brown's, which from what I can gather, are my alternative to cherry blues?


----------



## ripster

Lol - this Filco employee thing is ANOTHER of those messed up Internet rumors. He was FIRED!! Probably. The new one is much better.


----------



## runeazn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HometownHero*


These are the boards made primarily by former Filco employees? Its hard to even find Filco brown's, which from what I can gather, are my alternative to cherry blues?


you can find a filco brown on pchome








and let it ship from taiwan/china to you


----------



## HometownHero

Kind of narrowed it down between the Razer BlackWidow and the Tenkeyless Leopold Brown. Contemplating the Das Pro silent also. Its just more expensive than the other two. Thoughts?


----------



## Crazy9000

From what I've seen, Razer's build quality isn't too great. I'd go for either the Leopold or the Das. So basically get the Leopold unless you really like how the Das looks, and think it's worth the extra cash.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HometownHero;13194713*
> Kind of narrowed it down between the Razer BlackWidow and the Tenkeyless Leopold Brown. Contemplating the Das Pro silent also. Its just more expensive than the other two. Thoughts?


Das if you can afford it.

Honestly the Leopold and Das have the good build qaulity but the iOne, Xarmor, & Razer boards have only so-so build quality.

I would only choose a Das because it has the numpad.


----------



## PeRFeCK

Wow, this thread is awesome...so much information to absorb, thanks all for sharing!


----------



## magicase

Choosing between Steelseries G7 or Thermaltake Meka G1 for my future keyboard. Don't know which one to buy :S


----------



## csjesse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *magicase;13198210*
> Choosing between Steelseries G7 or Thermaltake Meka G1 for my future keyboard. Don't know which one to buy :S


i was choosing between these, mostly for gaming, and ended up buying the Meka G1. A bunch of SC2 pros used the G7 and have switched to the Meka G1.


----------



## magicase

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csjesse;13198621*
> i was choosing between these, mostly for gaming, and ended up buying the Meka G1. A bunch of SC2 pros used the G7 and have switched to the Meka G1.


I know that the G7 has a better handrest but i wonder how good is the handrest for the G1?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13190362*
> Lol - this Filco employee thing is ANOTHER of those messed up Internet rumors.


It seems to be like the new Model M "blue label" thing. This has the advantage of concerning a keyboard line I have little interest in.


----------



## RedCloudFuneral

I've had some serious fatigue issues with my last mechanical keyboard(Deck with cherry clears) and I had ruled off mechanical keyboards as too fatiguing for me, but now I'm starting to have problems with rubber dome boards. I think I may have been too hasty to rule out all mechanical keyboard just because of one switch type. I've been reading through geekhack and the guide up top and I think a cherry red keyboard may be what I am looking for. Would a Cherry Red be less fatiguing than the domes, or will I just be wasting my money?
The specific board I'm looking at is the KBC Poker with the reds, I can get it for $125 shipped on ebay, is this a good deal?


----------



## Crazy9000

I don't think you'll find it for cheaper then that.

The reds or the 30g Topre boards are the lightest ones I can think of. You should be able to resell the poker fairly easy without taking much loss if you don't like it.


----------



## ch_123

Cherry clears are pretty stiff switches. I think even browns might be good enough given that they are 10g lighter (pretty substantial difference)


----------



## RedCloudFuneral

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I don't think you'll find it for cheaper then that.

The reds or the 30g Topre boards are the lightest ones I can think of. You should be able to resell the poker fairly easy without taking much loss if you don't like it.


Ok, I think I'll go with the poker then, I'm still not too sure if mechanical keyboards are the right thing for me, and I can't afford a topre on a high schooler's budget.







Thanks for the help guys, and the OP for this great guide.


----------



## HometownHero

Ended up pulling the trigger on a BlackWidow. I'm broke after the purchase but will end up making bank over the summer. Plan is to ship the BlackWidow to the girlfriend's computer and purchase a Noppo Choco Mini for myself









BlackWidow, despite being a Razer product, has gotten fairly solid reviews (even a couple from OCnet members) so I figured, why not.


----------



## ripster

Yeah, the Razer hate runs strong here.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Noppoo failure rates are significantly higher than Razers. Razer ships jillions of the Black Widow around the world after all.

Noppoo serial numbers are lucky if they break 100.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13208414*
> Yeah, the Razer hate runs strong here.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if the Noppoo failure rates are significantly higher than Razers. Razer ships jillions of the Black Widow around the world after all.
> 
> Noppoo serial numbers are lucky if they break 100.


You hate Ducky boards for even smaller problems. Razer's redeeming quality is that they are a lot cheaper then the competition. They make a lot of sense when that's all you want to spend, but not if you're willing to spend more.


----------



## ripster

What are the sales volumes of the OCN Ducky edition?

US Ebay is up to 30.


----------



## Crazy9000

OCN sold out of whatever their first order was, I'm sure it was more then 30 in total. That's kind of funny when you put it that way







.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13208849*
> What are the sales volumes of the OCN Ducky edition?
> 
> US Ebay is up to 30.


The entire first order.









Which is much larger than Ebay's total.


----------



## ripster

Well, we counted up to 200 Leopolds if you consider the order numbers sequential. But that's when they were $99. Now they are $109.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13209187*
> Well, we counted up to 200 Leopolds if you consider the order numbers sequential. But that's when they were $99. Now they are $109.












...Either way, we have a much larger run planned for the next round of Ducky's as well.


----------



## MKB

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RedCloudFuneral*


I've had some serious fatigue issues with my last mechanical keyboard(Deck with cherry clears) and I had ruled off mechanical keyboards as too fatiguing for me, but now I'm starting to have problems with rubber dome boards. I think I may have been too hasty to rule out all mechanical keyboard just because of one switch type. I've been reading through geekhack and the guide up top and I think a cherry red keyboard may be what I am looking for. Would a Cherry Red be less fatiguing than the domes, or will I just be wasting my money?
The specific board I'm looking at is the KBC Poker with the reds, I can get it for $125 shipped on ebay, is this a good deal?


Do your wrists get sore / tingle?

The unicomp SpaceSave 104/105 works for my sore wrists. I also use a FILCO Tenkeyless Zero with White ALps which is similar. However hard to get.

I need to have the click or I bottom out the keys badly....


----------



## RedCloudFuneral

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MKB*


Do your wrists get sore / tingle?

The unicomp SpaceSave 104/105 works for my sore wrists. I also use a FILCO Tenkeyless Zero with White ALps which is similar. However hard to get.

I need to have the click or I bottom out the keys badly....


No, its not my wrists, its the joints in my fingers. I really need a tenkeyless or smaller keyboard though, my mouse is way off to the right right now and my G110 is still covering a lot of my mouse pad, I got a really small desk. I'm just going to stick to the poker, its only $100, after my previous expierance with mechanicals I'm not willing to sink too much money into a keyboard just yet.

I don't really want to buy a new keyboard really, but I'm starting to have issues with the rubber domes and I'll be going to school for programming next year.


----------



## Tator Tot

If you can, I recommend picking up a Noppoo Choc Mini 82 with Cherry MX-Browns as it sounds like it suits your needs very well.

Similar price, and you don't loose the num-pad.


----------



## ripster

I was reading the most excellent OCN Mouse Optimization guide and am curious why it doesn't mention all that stuff about IRQs being so much better than USB?

OCN Mouse Guide

Quote:



PS/2 Mouse Port

* You free up a USB port on computers without many USB ports.
* When you increase the report rate on a PS/2 port, it only effects the mouse.
* The way to overclock a PS/2 port is a little easier to do than overclocking a USB port.
* PS/2 mice can't be plugged in when the computer is on.
* The performance is really slow at just 100hz, until you do some tweaking.
* You often can't overclock the port to as high of speeds.
* Sometimes buttons besides the scroll wheel and the main 5 may not function without the driver.
* Some optical mice may not turn off their sensor even if you power down your system which wastes energy.


OCN Keyboard Guide

Quote:



PS/2 or USB?
PS/2 wins on three fronts: First, it supports full n-key rollover. Second, PS/2 keyboards aren't polled, but are completely interrupt based. And third, it is impossible for it to be delayed by the USB bus being used by other devices. There are two types of USB transfer modes - the interrupt transfer mode (USB polls keyboard, when key is sensed the USB controller sends the interrupt to the CPU), and the isochronous transfer mode, which reserves a certain amount of bandwidth for the keyboard with a guaranteed latency on the bus. Unfortunately, there are absolutely no keyboards made that use the latter, because special controllers would have to be used, thus making it cost prohibitive.


I just stick my mice and keyboards into USB because...well, I'm lazy, and the convenience is irresistible.


----------



## RedCloudFuneral

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


If you can, I recommend picking up a Noppoo Choc Mini 82 with Cherry MX-Browns as it sounds like it suits your needs very well.

Similar price, and you don't loose the num-pad.


I just came here to post that I had decided on the Choc Mini







Its like you read my mind, Since I had problems with Clears, do you think I would have trouble with Blacks? The Cherry Brown version costs about $50 more than the Cherry Black one.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


I just stick my mice and keyboards into USB because...well, I'm lazy, and the convenience is irresistible.


That's an excellent reason to use USB, and is why I use USB for every keyboard except the one in my main computer.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13209223*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...Either way, we have a much larger run planned for the next round of Ducky's as well.


Haw. Like you can get him to form a positive opinion about those. Messy spacebar? Just switch it out if you really want (if you can find a different one that lines up). Otherwise, I'd gladly take the availability even if it means a touch of extra branding, and I do mean just a touch. I mean, if we really wanted we probably could have dumped OCN branding all over the packaging, but we didn't. Really, a "flame" Esc key and extra printing on the spacebar is not that bad, especially for touch-typists.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RedCloudFuneral*


I just came here to post that I had decided on the Choc Mini







Its like you read my mind, Since I had problems with Clears, do you think I would have trouble with Blacks? The Cherry Brown version costs about $50 more than the Cherry Black one.


Be aware the keys are bit Pooey on the Noppoo.

The Geekhack group buy people are complaining. What a bunch of whiners.


----------



## reaper~

^ I love my Noppoo and have no problem with the printing on them keycaps. Saw that in Noppoo pics everywhere, bought one and it looks exactly the same so I'm happy. lol


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


I was reading the most excellent OCN Mouse Optimization guide and am curious why it doesn't mention all that stuff about IRQs being so much better than USB?

I just stick my mice and keyboards into USB because...well, I'm lazy, and the convenience is irresistible.


It's your choice. If you notice, neither is comparing the advantages of USB vs PS/2 in a global sense, but only for the application which is needed.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RedCloudFuneral*


I just came here to post that I had decided on the Choc Mini







Its like you read my mind, Since I had problems with Clears, do you think I would have trouble with Blacks? The Cherry Brown version costs about $50 more than the Cherry Black one.


Blacks would keep you tired. You'd want MX-Browns or MX-Red switches.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


That's an excellent reason to use USB, and is why I use USB for every keyboard except the one in my main computer.


It's the same reason I use USB for my laptop. Buying a PS/2 docking station for it or anything like that would be far to complicated and not worth the trouble. On the other hand, USB is fast and convenient in that case.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


Haw. Like you can get him to form a positive opinion about those. Messy spacebar? Just switch it out if you really want (if you can find a different one that lines up). Otherwise, I'd gladly take the availability even if it means a touch of extra branding, and I do mean just a touch. I mean, if we really wanted we probably could have dumped OCN branding all over the packaging, but we didn't. Really, a "flame" Esc key and extra printing on the spacebar is not that bad, especially for touch-typists.


Shhh, his bowels are irritable today.


----------



## ripster

The Asus SandyBridge P8P67 does not provide enough juice to power IBM Model M keyboards through the PS/2 connector. USB with a Blue Cube is fine.

May affect other power hungry keyboards like the LED Backlit ones but I'm not sure.

Details here.

This is the Rev 3.0 Asus.


----------



## max302

Quick heads up for you keyboard geeks, got a couple of boards that would need appraisal.

http://www.overclock.net/appraisals/997318-mechanical-boards-at101-model-m.html#post13229411

Thank you!


----------



## ch_123

Might be worth noting in the switch section that the average rubber dome keyboard requires 55-60g of force. Puts the force figures into perspective.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Might be worth noting in the switch section that the average rubber dome keyboard requires 55-60g of force. Puts the force figures into perspective.


I'll throw that up now


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13209223*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...Either way, we have a much larger run planned for the next round of Ducky's as well.


Any idea if there are going to be different kinds besides the ones from last time?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drjoey1500;13249246*
> Any idea if there are going to be different kinds besides the ones from last time?


Many different kinds. It'll be a full fledged line up on par with what you would see a website like Elitekeyboard carry.

Multiple board types, and switch types.


----------



## KipH

Just to hold you over till the ducks arrive from their winter home in China:

So I went looking for a mouse and mike row phone today in the computer market. Thought I would check if they still have the filco stuff. They do, about a few of every mec board I could think of. And.
And...

Reds! Now I want a red. Can anyone lend me $4000nt? (about $140us) If you want one I can ship it to ya, for cost +5%. Or if we can get 10 orders I will ship them for cost (as they will give me one free). I have as yet no idea what the cost would be to ship to you, but Taiwan has reasonable shipping rates.

Not so Bad cell phone pics, I hope work.








or go here for larger image:


HTML:


[URL=http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/3907/imag0196m.jpg%5B/html]http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/3907/imag0196m.jpg[/html[/URL]]


----------



## mydezi

I read through a ton of threads, tests, ... about mechanical boards and the different switches and i'm still not sure which one to choose. I just can say: no blues (and no reds because one rarely finds them).

Currently i'm using an old Saitek Eclipse II and this of course doesn't have a tactile feel. I'm also playing games like Battlefield:Bad Company 2 (FPS) beside f.e. Starcraft (RTS) and so i'm not sure whether i should grab blacks or browns. Will browns be to hard to adapt for me (and i also don't seem to find a brown board with lightning).


----------



## gonX

Most rubber domes have a tactile feel. Unless it's old, of course. I think Deck has a board with backlightning that also has browns in it. That or MX Clears - I can't remember.

Most people who are content with rubber domes but are just looking for a higher quality keyboard will more than likely enjoy MX Browns. MX Blacks are great as well, except that they're slightly boring to type on.


----------



## Tator Tot

Deck's use MX-Clear's for the Tactile boards, and MX-Blacks for the normal boards.

I too would recommend getting a MX-Clear or MX-Brown board. A Topre if you had the money, but I doubt you do.


----------



## Cata1yst

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mydezi;13277175*
> I read through a ton of threads, tests, ... about mechanical boards and the different switches and i'm still not sure which one to choose. I just can say: no blues (and no reds because one rarely finds them).
> 
> Currently i'm using an old Saitek Eclipse II and this of course doesn't have a tactile feel. I'm also playing games like Battlefield:Bad Company 2 (FPS) beside f.e. Starcraft (RTS) and so i'm not sure whether i should grab blacks or browns. Will browns be to hard to adapt for me (and i also don't seem to find a brown board with lightning).


Ub9l-s... but spposedly theyve had issues with QC and returns. Is backlighting really THAT necessary?

I tried out a black on a Steelseries and it felt like crap to me, but i personally like feedback.

Cant go wrong with browns really. You could put your name in for the switch try numpad and give every key a feel.


----------



## mydezi

Thanks for the input, most likely gonna pick brown switches (still not sure whether i grab a Zowie or

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Cata1yst*


You could put your name in for the switch try numpad and give every key a feel.


Uhm, where can i do this? Would be awesome to test the switches and finally choose one without regretting it.


----------



## Cata1yst

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mydezi*


Thanks for the input, most likely gonna pick brown switches (still not sure whether i grab a Zowie or

Uhm, where can i do this? Would be awesome to test the switches and finally choose one without regretting it.


Deskthority/Geekhack have some circulating, not sure if its made and managed by the same bloke


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mydezi;13280287*
> Thanks for the input, most likely gonna pick brown switches (still not sure whether i grab a Zowie or


Unless you've typed on some switches before, it may be a bit harder for you to really grasp the difference.

The Zowie is a good choice though.


----------



## ehpexs

I was all set to have the Unicomp Customizer shipped to me, when I received an e-mail the following morning explaining that shipping was going to be more than it had appeared on the bill ($at first it was a steep $30, later $60.) I was given the option of cancelling my order (which I did given that while it's a nice keyboard, it was set to be around $200 with all the duties and taxes thrown in.)

I'm now back to square one. Obviously as a Canadian my choices are a lot more limited in terms of selection.

The three keyboards I'm now looking at are as follows. (I'm open to better options.)

The Razar Blackwidow ($70, Blue keys)
The Das Ulimate ($130-$135, depending of the choice of blue or brown keys)
The Steelseries 7G ($100, Black keys)

I don't really have any preferences for touch, I would prefer something that can come somewhat close to the Unicomp in performance and durability. It's tough to the decide though (my choices are basically limited to canadian stores (TigerDirect, NCIX, Newegg)


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ehpexs*


I was all set to have the Unicomp Customizer shipped to me, when I received an e-mail the following morning explaining that shipping was going to be more than it had appeared on the bill ($at first it was a steep $30, later $60.) I was given the option of cancelling my order (which I did given that while it's a nice keyboard, it was set to be around $200 with all the duties and taxes thrown in.)

I'm now back to square one. Obviously as a Canadian my choices are a lot more limited in terms of selection.

The three keyboards I'm now looking at are as follows. (I'm open to better options.)

The Razar Blackwidow ($70, Blue keys)
The Das Ulimate ($130-$135, depending of the choice of blue or brown keys)
The Steelseries 7G ($100, Black keys)

I don't really have any preferences for touch, I would prefer something that can come somewhat close to the Unicomp in performance and durability. It's tough to the decide though (my choices are basically limited to canadian stores (TigerDirect, NCIX, Newegg)


Used Model M?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehpexs;13315703*
> I was all set to have the Unicomp Customizer shipped to me, when I received an e-mail the following morning explaining that shipping was going to be more than it had appeared on the bill ($at first it was a steep $30, later $60.) I was given the option of cancelling my order (which I did given that while it's a nice keyboard, it was set to be around $200 with all the duties and taxes thrown in.)
> 
> I'm now back to square one. Obviously as a Canadian my choices are a lot more limited in terms of selection.
> 
> The three keyboards I'm now looking at are as follows. (I'm open to better options.)
> 
> The Razar Blackwidow ($70, Blue keys)
> The Das Ulimate ($130-$135, depending of the choice of blue or brown keys)
> The Steelseries 7G ($100, Black keys)
> 
> I don't really have any preferences for touch, I would prefer something that can come somewhat close to the Unicomp in performance and durability. It's tough to the decide though (my choices are basically limited to canadian stores (TigerDirect, NCIX, Newegg)


Out of all of those, the Das Ultimate with MX-Blues would be the most like the Model M with the best build quality. Razer's Blackwidow has a poor build quality. More so, compared to a Model M or Unicomp.

Das is close to the same, but it's glossy coating gets dirty easy. It can also get scratched easy.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehpexs;13315703*
> I was all set to have the Unicomp Customizer shipped to me, when I received an e-mail the following morning explaining that shipping was going to be more than it had appeared on the bill ($at first it was a steep $30, later $60.) I was given the option of cancelling my order (which I did given that while it's a nice keyboard, it was set to be around $200 with all the duties and taxes thrown in.)
> 
> I'm now back to square one. Obviously as a Canadian my choices are a lot more limited in terms of selection.
> 
> The three keyboards I'm now looking at are as follows. (I'm open to better options.)
> 
> The Razar Blackwidow ($70, Blue keys)
> The Das Ulimate ($130-$135, depending of the choice of blue or brown keys)
> The Steelseries 7G ($100, Black keys)
> 
> I don't really have any preferences for touch, I would prefer something that can come somewhat close to the Unicomp in performance and durability. It's tough to the decide though (my choices are basically limited to canadian stores (TigerDirect, NCIX, Newegg)


Voila.


----------



## _AN HERO_

That is my keyboard. Picked it up today for $3.00 plus 20 cents tax. Missing F1 through F5 keycaps, but others are there. Unused condition. No clicks, the spring just goes down till it bottoms out. Anyways you guys got any info on this cherry keyboard?

Says G81-1800HQAUS

Model "MY 1800"


----------



## Tator Tot

It's a pretty good keyboard from Cherry.

Uses the Cherry MX-Blue keyswitches.


----------



## drjoey1500

Don't those use cherry MY's?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


Don't those use cherry MY's?


No, MX-Blues.


----------



## _AN HERO_

It was at a surplus store, they usually have old computer parts(AGP graphics cards, old CNC controller cards, and lots of DIY cables ready for soldering) but I saw this sweet keyboard just sitting there and snatched it.

I expected $30 or $50(remember... cheap surplus store) on the back, and I peed a little when I saw $3.00 written in sharpie on the back!


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


No, MX-Blues.


G8*1*. Model MY.

Those are MY switches, you can see it clearer in the second pic he posted.

You're probably thinking of G80-1800.

In any case, nice find







!


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


G8*1*. Model MY.

Those are MY switches, you can see it clearer in the second pic he posted.

You're probably thinking of G80-1800.

In any case, nice find







!


The switches in the first pic are clearly Cherry MX, while the ones in the second clearly aren't.

Now I'm confused







.


----------



## YanYan001

Quote:



Originally Posted by *_AN HERO_*


It was at a surplus store, they usually have old computer parts(AGP graphics cards, old CNC controller cards, and lots of DIY cables ready for soldering) but I saw this sweet keyboard just sitting there and snatched it.

I expected $30 or $50(remember... cheap surplus store) on the back, and I peed a little when I saw $3.00 written in sharpie on the back!


Lol I just googled maps surplus store near my area and I might just drop by one of these days







.


----------



## black!ce




----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;13325195*
> The switches in the first pic are clearly Cherry MX, while the ones in the second clearly aren't.
> 
> Now I'm confused
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Exactly, there's both a MY & MX 1800. They use either Cherry MY Switches or Cherry MX Switches.

So it just depends on what he has actually.


----------



## mydezi

FYI: Got my Zowie yesterday. Currently feel a little bit uncomfortable with the angle of the board (much flatter than my Eclipse II). Also need to get used to the size (it's smaller too). I'm also not sure whether i like the Browns. Spamming a key currently feels a little bit akward (with the resistance around the point activation of the key). Will test it furthermore and gonna see whether i keep it or send it back to try blacks ^^


----------



## Tator Tot

Could you provide a picture of the two right next to each other so we can see the angle?

I've yet to get a lot of free time with the Zowie board; but from what I did use, I liked it.


----------



## mydezi

No Cam here but this info: height at Strg 3cm, at Esc 5cm (Eclipse II) compared to 3/4cm (Zowie). So it's noticeably flatter.


----------



## ripster

The Leopold is 17+8KRO over USB. My Asus P8P67 Deluxe Rev 3. Sandy Bridge and Intel BadAxe2 OTOH has rejected all my IBM and Lexmark IBMs on the PS/2 port.

I'm surprised that the OP remains so bullish on PS/2.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


The Leopold is 17+8KRO over USB. My Asus P8P67 Deluxe Rev 3. Sandy Bridge and Intel BadAxe2 OTOH has rejected all my IBM and Lexmark IBMs on the PS/2 port.

I'm surprised that the OP remains so bullish on PS/2.


I'll add the info on the Leopold to the OP.

Port incompatibility do to bad design isn't anything new though. I remember the days when some Mice didn't work on USB ports because of too little power. .


----------



## ripster

It's 2011 though.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


It's 2011 though.


Yet Intel still had to revise their mainstream platform because they couldn't figure out how to implement a functional SATA controller...









Everyone makes mistakes.

Besides, IBM Model M's suck up more juice via PS/2 than most any other keyboard does.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13365963*
> 
> Everyone makes mistakes.


Don't I know it.









Despite my 2011 motherboard not having a fully powered PS/2 port I love the MEGAPOWER USB 3.0 ports.

I wonder how much juice backlit gaming keyboards suck up?

And couldn't the PS/2 part of the guide take SOME refreshing?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13366116*
> I wonder how much juice backlit gaming keyboards suck up?


I can test my Deck for ya if you want?

I did it once with my Deck on high and got around 600mA of current draw over the USB cable.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13366154*
> I can test my Deck for ya if you want?
> 
> I did it once with my Deck on high and got around 600mA of current draw over the USB cable.


But the OP says you should buy a PS/2 keyboard?

So confused.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13366223*
> But the OP says you should buy a PS/2 keyboard?
> 
> So confused.


Good thing my Deck is a convertible.









It was a PS/2 model but it has since moved it's day job to my laptop which uses USB. Takes a little bit more effort to move it between PS/2 and USB compared to a normal mech (like my Filco or Ducky) but it's was not a deal breaker for me.


----------



## ripster

You feel any difference in Latency?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13366273*
> You feel any difference in Latency?


Yeah, I think the latency difference is to blame for why I have huge delays in Minecraft when opening my inventory.


----------



## ripster

Nothing like Minecraft to stress your new build and remind you of the days of IRQs.


----------



## Tator Tot

Nothing like Minecraft to remind you of the days when you used to have 6 huge tubs full of lego's and nothing better to do then build all day.


----------



## ch_123

Nothing like Minecraft to remind you that writing a huge sandbox game in Java is a really bad idea.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13366587*
> Nothing like Minecraft to remind you of the days when you used to have 6 huge tubs full of lego's and nothing better to do then build all day.


I'm pretty sure that's still the case for Ripster.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;13366925*
> Nothing like Minecraft to remind you that writing a huge sandbox game in Java is a *really, really, really, really, really, really really, really* bad idea.


I'm just gonna fix that for you.

It's still fun though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;13366936*
> I'm pretty sure that's still the case for Ripster.


Most likely.


----------



## ripster

Wow you guys wrote a lot while I was gone. Must be those spiffy PS/2 latencies.


----------



## ripster

Wow, you guys wrote a lot when I was gone. Must be those spiffy PS/2 latencies.

EDIT: Lol. Double post while OCN was going through some server heartburn.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13367300*
> Wow, you guys wrote a lot when I was gone. Must be those spiffy PS/2 latencies.


I see your USB hiccuped on you.


----------



## ripster

PS/2 on a Silicon Graphics Rubber Dampened Complicated ALPS.

Funny, I have a USB and PS/2 keyboard now side by side and see NO DIFFERENCE!!!


----------



## Tator Tot

You need to play more Minecraft then.


----------



## ripster

In other news the Leopolds are 17+8KRO over USB.









This little factoid was missed by a certain early reviewer of the Leopold. Must have been a keyboard noob.

And unlike the Ducky G2 it works in OSX.


----------



## Crazy9000

Good to know about the Leopolds. 17 keys is plenty for me, as I don't play with my face on the keyboard.


----------



## ripster

Fingers and ALMOST all the toes.


----------



## Tator Tot

I wonder how they managed that one.


----------



## ripster

Dunno. Sounds like a simple edit to HID Descriptors.

Might be time to add Leopold to the Mechanical Keyboards By Switch Listing. Otherwise it looks like OCN is pushing the Ducky mighty heavily.

On another note in the OP I notice Manyak is listed as "Retired Staff". Has he tried Viagra?


----------



## Tator Tot

I'll be updating that section soon enough. I need to add the new Majestouch 2 boards; as well as the Majestouch Ninja and I'm going to add a section for "Mixed Switch" keyboards too.


----------



## mydezi

My Zowie went back (Space felt akward and i wanted to test Blacks). Now i got a 6Gv2 for testing purposes. Those Blacks are really heavy. I wonder if i can adapt to them. The 6Gv2 will also be sent back anyway. Some thing i also don't like about this one: the overall shape - hit Ctrl by accident from time to time. Wonder if i would have the same problem on a Filco because the shape is very similar.

Now i also want to test Reds, maybe i'll see a good DE one soon with the Majestouch 2 Red with US Layout at keyboardco already.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mydezi;13394631*
> My Zowie went back (Space felt akward and i wanted to test Blacks). Now i got a 6Gv2 for testing purposes. Those Blacks are really heavy. I wonder if i can adapt to them. The 6Gv2 will also be sent back anyway. Some thing i also don't like about this one: the overall shape - hit Ctrl by accident from time to time. Wonder if i would have the same problem on a Filco because the shape is very similar.
> 
> Now i also want to test Reds, maybe i'll see a good DE one soon with the Majestouch 2 Red with US Layout at keyboardco already.


The 6Gv2 and filco's layouts are slightly different.

What was the issue you had with the spacebar on the Zowie? As in, why did it feel awkward?


----------



## mydezi

Comes back up slowly and sometimes not the whole path. Filco is different to 6Gv2?

http://www.fragyou.net/i/6Gv2-angle.jpg
http://blog.gadgethelpline.com/wp-co...-2-NKR-104.jpg

Looks like they have a similar shape(?). I wonder if the Filco is maybe a little lower at the front. Caught myself often accidently pressing Ctrl on the &Gv2 while playing (with WASD).


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mydezi*


Comes back up slowly and sometimes not the whole path.


Sounds like an issue with the stabilizers

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mydezi*


Filco is different to 6Gv2?

http://www.fragyou.net/i/6Gv2-angle.jpg
http://blog.gadgethelpline.com/wp-co...-2-NKR-104.jpg

Looks like they have a similar shape(?). I wonder if the Filco is maybe a little lower at the front. Caught myself often accidently pressing Ctrl on the &Gv2 while playing (with WASD).


The angle is different but it's not entirely noticable.

The 6Gv2 uses an altered ANSI layout while the Filco has a standard one.


----------



## mydezi

Yes, but the shape itself might cause my problem with the Ctrl. The Zowie has a small palm rest which makes it easier to prevent this.
The Zowie Space bar problem seems to happen to many customers. Still need to test the Blacks some more but currently i would say i like Browns more ^^


----------



## Tator Tot

You can always buy a palm wrest for most keyboards.


----------



## mydezi

Like to pull my board close to the desk boarder so a big or non attached wrest will just fall down ^^


----------



## Tator Tot

Ah, I've actually used a wrist rest for as long as I can remember. I personally love the gel ones.

Generally they're heavy enough to stay in place as well.


----------



## RedCloudFuneral

What would you guys recommend for a wrist rest? I got some foam/rubber thing a while back, but it had this nasty smell to it, so I sent it back.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RedCloudFuneral*


What would you guys recommend for a wrist rest? I got some foam/rubber thing a while back, but it had this nasty smell to it, so I sent it back.


OCN's going to have some leather wrist wrests come in this summer. I have a sample and they are pretty nice. Leather with a firm foam material inside.

On the other hand, I really like the gel kind.

As for suggesting a wrist wrest to you, it really depends on what you're looking for or what feel you like?


----------



## RedCloudFuneral

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


OCN's going to have some leather wrist wrests come in this summer. I have a sample and they are pretty nice. Leather with a firm foam material inside.

On the other hand, I really like the gel kind.

As for suggesting a wrist wrest to you, it really depends on what you're looking for or what feel you like?


I don't really like Gels, I always get an urge to pick at things like that, I am interested in the leather one, any word on pricing yet, and do you have any pics of it?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RedCloudFuneral*


I don't really like Gels, I always get an urge to pick at things like that, I am interested in the leather one, any word on pricing yet, and do you have any pics of it?


It'll be the same as the one you see in the pictures here. Though, I can snap some better ones if you would like. 
The only difference is the OCN versions will have our websites embroidered into them like you see the Ducky Logo is.

I do not have an official word on pricing, but expect lower than $50. EliteKeyboards sells a similar one, but for a much larger price.

If you have any local places like OfficeMax, OfficeDepot, Circuit City, Big Lots, Microcenter, Etc; I'd suggest going to them and trying the different styles.


----------



## RedCloudFuneral

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


It'll be the same as the one you see in the pictures here. Though, I can snap some better ones if you would like. 
The only difference is the OCN versions will have our websites embroidered into them like you see the Ducky Logo is.

I do not have an official word on pricing, but expect lower than $50. EliteKeyboards sells a similar one, but for a much larger price.

If you have any local places like OfficeMax, OfficeDepot, Circuit City, Big Lots, Microcenter, Etc; I'd suggest going to them and trying the different styles.


Don't bother snapping some pics, I don't need ultra high def pics of a wrist rest. I'm trying to sell off my poker right now, so maybe I'll grab the ducky/WR combo in the future.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RedCloudFuneral*


Don't bother snapping some pics, I don't need ultra high def pics of a wrist rest. I'm trying to sell off my poker right now, so maybe I'll grab the ducky/WR combo in the future.










No prob.

Some people are concerned with the final details; like how the logo looks or what the stiching is like (black thread, white thread, etc) texture of the bottom. So I felt i should offer it if I could.


----------



## aldfig0

Wow.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aldfig0;13431107*
> Wow.


lmao


----------



## drjoey1500




----------



## Tator Tot

I see 2 members and 18 guests right now


----------



## Modus

Hey guys. I'm going to order a KBC Poker off ebay soon. which switch should I go for? it's just for games and normal typing. anything in between that?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Modus;13447004*
> Hey guys. I'm going to order a KBC Poker off ebay soon. which switch should I go for? it's just for games and normal typing. anything in between that?


Cherry MX-Brown


----------



## anjuice

Just ordered a little something something from Elite Keyboards. I can't wait!! I'm too excited LSDKFJDKLSFJKLSDFJ. I haven't bought a keyboard for years. My D and N key is almost gone, M key is completely gone, C, V, B, left CTRL Shift & Alt are 40%-60% gone :]


----------



## godofdeath

so you got keycaps? even tho they dont exist at ek?


----------



## anjuice

Oh no I ordered myself a Leopold lol. I didn't order keycaps for my old rubber dome keyboard. That would be silly


----------



## anjuice

Excited. I got the confirmation email. It is late at night :O I hope the owner is getting enough sleep. Is EK a one person operation?


----------



## ripster

I think he owns a dog.


----------



## ebolamonkey3

Umm guys... I just got my Thinkpad x220 and I think I like its keyboard better than my Deck Frost Tactile...

The Clear MX switch is still a bit too stiff for me for fast typing, and I prefer Thinkpad keyboard in terms of resistance.

Should I return the Deck and go for a keyboard w/ MX Browns? Or maybe Blues?


----------



## Crazy9000

If you switch to browns it would be a downgrade in keyboard quality







. Deck doesn't offer them.

Could always try a realforce







.


----------



## Tator Tot

Thinkpad's have some excellent keyboards in them. More so for being laptops.

I would look at Cherry MX-Brown keyboards if you're looking for something on the lighter side.

Topre keyboards would be another option, though they either come in variable weight (which can take some getting used to) or in a fixed weight (of 55G). The fixed weight is the same as the Deck's, though it offers a much smoother travel in the force gradient. Making it, for mosts opinion, a better board to type on.


----------



## quickrabbit5

Is the HHKB Pro 2 really only 3 key rollover? I'm having trouble trying to get a definitive answer through google searches, but it would be pretty disappointing for a 275$ keyboard to only have 3KRO.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *quickrabbit5;13456016*
> Is the HHKB Pro 2 really only 3 key rollover? I'm having trouble trying to get a definitive answer through google searches, but it would be pretty disappointing for a 275$ keyboard to only have 3KRO.


It's actually 6KRO, that's an aspect of the guide that I'm going to change in a moment.

That section was not originally written by me, so I'm not sure where the 3KRO number came up at.


----------



## Crazy9000

HHKB should have 6 key rollover.

(edit) I knew I should have posted before taking another bite of my sandwich














.


----------



## ch_123

I'm not entirely sure how a keyboard could have 3 key rollover...


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;13456583*
> I'm not entirely sure how a keyboard could have 3 key rollover...


Well right now, I know there's about 4 different KRO's
2, 6+4, N, & 26 (Microsoft's Sidewinder x4)


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13456614*
> Well right now, I know there's about 4 different KRO's
> 2, 6+4, N, & 26 (Microsoft's Sidewinder x4)


Leopold - 17.

Personally I'd lump anything over 10 into the same category, as there's pretty much no chance you will ever need more.


----------



## XenoCrash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;13457218*
> Personally I'd lump anything over 10 into the same category, as there's pretty much no chance you will ever need more.


Bragging rights?









But seriously, I would too.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;13457218*
> Leopold - 17.
> 
> Personally I'd lump anything over 10 into the same category, as there's pretty much no chance you will ever need more.


I think the Leopold fits into the 6+4 Category as it was designed that way. Same with the HHKB Pro 2 & Topre boards.

Though they can all do more than that over USB.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13457629*
> I think the Leopold fits into the 6+4 Category as it was designed that way. Same with the HHKB Pro 2 & Topre boards.
> 
> Though they can all do more than that over USB.


What do you mean? The Realforce and HHKB can not do more then 6+4 over USB, and the Leopolds reportedly can do 17. I don't see how that would put it in the 6 category.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;13458598*
> What do you mean? The Realforce and HHKB can not do more then 6+4 over USB, and the Leopolds reportedly can do 17. I don't see how that would put it in the 6 category.


By design they can do more, by limitation they are only 6+4.
It has to do with the key matrix itself.

Also, the Leopold could technically be 26 KRO like the Sidewinder as they reverse engineered the HID most likely.

Sidewinder is 17 normal keys, + 7 Modifiers, + 1 Sidewinder Gaming Key, + 1 Media Key


----------



## ripster

This listing of NKRO keyboards is always up to date.


----------



## anjuice

My Leopold will be delivered today :] very excited. Hopefully it's here when I get back from my noon class, but based on past FedEx deliveries, most likely it won't be here until 3-4pm.


----------



## ripster

If you take a pic maybe the Editor will add it to the OP as shipping now.


----------



## anjuice

Will do!


----------



## anjuice

Nice avatar ripster. I love Japanese coffee. I'm a big fan of UCC


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13465977*
> If you take a pic maybe the Editor will add it to the OP as shipping now.


They're added in, but mall edits like that can be PM'd to me. I'm working on another large guide update as well though.

Unfortunately, it's just one person doing the work right now


----------



## blode

do they sell silencers for http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,tenkeyless&pid=fc200rtab ?

the mx browns are keeping my neighbors up


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blode;13467776*
> do they sell silencers for http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,tenkeyless&pid=fc200rtab ?
> 
> the mx browns are keeping my neighbors up


http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,slpads


----------



## anjuice

Woooooooo hooooooooo keyboard's here. It feels so nice. I like how I don't have to press the key all the way for it to register, but bottoming out is so addicting because of that clack sound. It reminds me of when I watched Densha Otoko. I love the clean look. If anybody wants pictures I'll be more than happy to take some. Is there a possible way to take off a key without using the tool from EK? I didn't buy a tool :X


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anjuice;13469468*
> Woooooooo hooooooooo keyboard's here. It feels so nice. I like how I don't have to press the key all the way for it to register, but bottoming out is so addicting because of that clack sound. It reminds me of when I watched Densha Otoko. I love the clean look. If anybody wants pictures I'll be more than happy to take some. Is there a possible way to take off a key without using the tool from EK? I didn't buy a tool :X


You can bend a paperclip into shape so that it goes underneath the key and then pull it up.

Alternatively, you can pry it up with a dull knife (like a butter knife) or a screw driver (flat head)


----------



## anjuice

Thanks Tator Tot. Good thing there's paperclips lying around here!

Oh I almost forgot, there's no squeaking to speak of. I do notice on the backspace, both shift keys, enter, and spacebar are just a tiny bit more resistant if I press them on the sides, but I'm used to that coming from a cheapo dome keyboard.


----------



## Tator Tot

no prob









That's pretty standard no matter what.
Spacebar is usually the most evident, while enter, shift, and backspace are less noticeable.


----------



## drjoey1500

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13467799*
> http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,slpads


What are those made out of, and has anyone tried them?

They look kinda thick, like they'd change the feel.


----------



## 161029

I can't believe I haven't seen this. The little animation helps a lot.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *drjoey1500*


What are those made out of, and has anyone tried them?

They look kinda thick, like they'd change the feel.


As the names suggest, the firm ones give you a quicker stop, while the softer ones give you a slower/softer stop.

They are not bad, they don't change the feel a whole lot, and give your keys more of a subtle noise.

The price on them is a bit outrageous though. It's definitely worth the cost to some, but I don't know if it'll be for everyone.

Silicon rubbers rings (dental bands) are a better value.


----------



## georgevu

I'm really interested in Mechanical Keyboards as you guys are. But i just don't know how to choose the right kind as well as the right switch. I'm a gamer, i usually play FPS(Crossfire, CS, CSS), some RTS (DotA). I also type quite often and i don't want to make so much noise. Can anybody suggest me a product which is suitable for me?
I have a crush on the Deck Legend (tactile) and Filco (tactile, too)
Thanks!!!
PS: I have difficulty buying both of those products mentioned above 'cause i live in Vietnam ^^'', where there's no Distributor for Deck and Filco. Could you show me how to order one of them?


----------



## ripster

WW Shopping Wiki - Taiwan. They'll ship to Vietnam.

Or hop over to Korea, China or Japan to try lots of keyboards in-store.

If you find a local online vendor post and I'll include them.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HybridCore*


I can't believe I haven't seen this. The little animation helps a lot.


Hey, Lethal Squirrel did that. Good thing I forced the editor to add attribution. Wish my pics still had their watermarks though.

Lol - in for post #12,001.


----------



## Nullhacker

my logitech g15 crapped out and i want to try a machanical keyboard now... however can someone lead me into the right direction

im a big gamer, rpg and first person shooters 
I also am a programmer i do a ton of typing what keyboards would you recommend? i would love to have backlit keys and possibly macros


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Nullhacker*


my logitech g15 crapped out and i want to try a machanical keyboard now... however can someone lead me into the right direction

im a big gamer, rpg and first person shooters 
I also am a programmer i do a ton of typing what keyboards would you recommend? i would love to have backlit keys and possibly macros


Razer's BlackWidow Ultimate actually sounds like a perfect board for you. 
The build quality leaves a lot to be desired though. You do get many features for a relatively inexpensive price though.

Your other options for Backlit boards are Deck keyboards, which are some of the most well built keyboards.

Honestly, the question is, how much are you looking to spend?


----------



## Nullhacker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Razer's BlackWidow Ultimate actually sounds like a perfect board for you. 
The build quality leaves a lot to be desired though. You do get many features for a relatively inexpensive price though.

Your other options for Backlit boards are Deck keyboards, which are some of the most well built keyboards.

Honestly, the question is, how much are you looking to spend?


i was just looking at the blackwidow and i like the way it looks a lot. when u say the quality isnt the best do u mean the feel of it is cheapy or just not as durable as others?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nullhacker;13505158*
> i was just looking at the blackwidow and i like the way it looks a lot. when u say the quality isnt the best do u mean the feel of it is cheapy or just not as durable as others?


It's not as well constructed. It also seems to have larger failure numbers than other keyboards. Most often I see keys getting stuck (Even though Razer claims to have hand selected their switches) and LED's dying.


----------



## ripster

You mean Xarmor LEDs dying? Link1. Link2. Link3.

And that's for a company shipping in the low 100's. Razer is shipping in the 1000's.


----------



## Tator Tot

The same issues have been effecting Razer.

Same OEM, who woulda thought


----------



## 161029

I would go for some browns. A DasKeyboard Professional Model S Silent, a Leopold with browns, or a Ducky should be good. I don't know if the Decks have brown switches. You could also consider a Topre switch keyboard (HHKB, short for Happy Hacking Keyboard, and the Topre Force series on EliteKeyboards have Topre switches). Black, Clear (basically gone), or red based on the guide is good too. I would recommend blue but are you going to double-tap? Some people have trouble double tapping with blues.


----------



## ripster

Actually it has NOT been confirmed the OEM for Razer and iOne are the same. It's just the spacebar stabilizers and the keys are same. Ducky ABS keys are made in the same factory as Filco keys with the same molds. There are only a handful of keycap manufacturers around the world.


----------



## RedCloudFuneral

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Actually it has NOT been confirmed the OEM for Razer and iOne are the same. It's just the spacebar stabilizers and the keys are same. Ducky ABS keys are made in the same factory as Filco keys with the same molds. There are only a handful of keycap manufacturers around the world.


Who makes the keys on the Poker? I'm looking for something different for my next board. I'll probably grab some PBT keys.


----------



## ripster

The keys are sold by KBC, just like the Poker. Not sure what Chinese factory.


KBC is a mysterious Chinese company like Ducky.

I suspect they use the same WebSite Designer though.


----------



## Tator Tot

Ducky is a Taiwan based company...


----------



## 161029

Now that I look at the Ducky boards, I don't know what to choose, a HHKB (Topre), DasKeyboard (Model S Pro Silent) , Steelseries (7G) , or Ducky (9008-G2). I like the HHKB and 9008-G2 since they have a matte look but DasKeyboard is German (germans are awesome. All but Hitler) and has a cool tab look while the Steelseries just looks interesting to me somehow...I'll find out in time...or just get all of them.


----------



## ripster

I think DuckyChannel is different. They sell everything from Das keyboards to Eizo monitors to Topre. Could be wrong - maybe they are like Diatec/Filco.

If I follow the Contact Links I end up in Fairfield, California?


----------



## Tator Tot

Ducky's main HQ is in Taiwan and they said themselves they are a Taiwan company.

Ducky Channel is their main site as well (which is why it's the only one to feature an English section.) 
It also features all of their products (that they make, or distribute.)


----------



## 161029

Wait, so they make DasKeyboards and Eizo monitors?


----------



## ripster

They must be like Diatec. A distributor/relabeller.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HybridCore*


Wait, so they make DasKeyboards and Eizo monitors?


No, they're a distributor of those products (along with Topre products.)

If you notice they have a products side bar which shows ducky branded products (The Power Supplies are Seasonic builds.)

While the bottom banners are for products they distribute.


----------



## 161029

So they vendor and build. Just that they sell other products at the same time they sell and make their own boards. Okay, got it.


----------



## Genome852

The guide states that USB polling rate does not matter... however, based on http://www.barneyb.com/barneyblog/2009/05/12/das-most-disappointing-keyboard/, it seems like it does affect the keyboard if you type fast enough. To quote the Das poster:

_The detection time of the current version was designed as 100ms which means that if you are a very, very fast typist, approximately 120 words per minute then, you might encounter this limitation. It's something we are redesigning for the next version of Das Keyboard._

Ie. polling rate does affect keyboards, obviously it's less important than with mice but if you're a fast typist it could be an issue.


----------



## kyle-reece

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13512900*
> Ducky is a Taiwan based company...


I think being based in the republic of china constitutes them being chinese...


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Genome852;13516550*
> The guide states that USB polling rate does not matter... however, based on http://www.barneyb.com/barneyblog/2009/05/12/das-most-disappointing-keyboard/, it seems like it does affect the keyboard if you type fast enough. To quote the Das poster:
> 
> _The detection time of the current version was designed as 100ms which means that if you are a very, very fast typist, approximately 120 words per minute then, you might encounter this limitation. It's something we are redesigning for the next version of Das Keyboard._
> 
> Ie. polling rate does affect keyboards, obviously it's less important than with mice but if you're a fast typist it could be an issue.


That's not exactly a scientific test.

On the other hand, I doubt anyone will run into that issue. I constantly type in the 110-120 GAWM with Brown, Blue, & Clear switches. Though I don't ever run into an issue where what I typed was not what came out on screen (IE: an ordering issue.)

To be fair though, it is possible for it to happen. The issue that the poster is complaining about is an instance where it does happen and is happening.

It's not an issue of polling rate, but scan rate.

As GonX Said:
Quote:


> That isn't the USB polling rate they're referring to - it's the scan rate of the keyboard itself, which is up to the controller of the keyboard. There was indeed a bad batch of Das Keyboard which had a very low scan rate which resulted in some words being typed incorrectly.
> 
> It doesn't matter with the USB polling rate because the keyboard is going to be sending the packets in the right order.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyle-reece;13516690*
> I think being based in the republic of china constitutes them being chinese...


If you do not know, Overclock.net has our own keyboards made by Ducky. They said themselves that the HQ is in Taiwan.

Also, orders we make are shipped from there.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Genome852;13516550*
> The guide states that USB polling rate does not matter... however, based on http://www.barneyb.com/barneyblog/2009/05/12/das-most-disappointing-keyboard/, it seems like it does affect the keyboard if you type fast enough. To quote the Das poster:
> 
> _The detection time of the current version was designed as 100ms which means that if you are a very, very fast typist, approximately 120 words per minute then, you might encounter this limitation. It's something we are redesigning for the next version of Das Keyboard._
> 
> Ie. polling rate does affect keyboards, obviously it's less important than with mice but if you're a fast typist it could be an issue.


That isn't the USB polling rate they're referring to - it's the scan rate of the keyboard itself, which is up to the controller of the keyboard. There was indeed a bad batch of Das Keyboard which had a very low scan rate which resulted in some words being typed incorrectly.

It doesn't matter with the USB polling rate because the keyboard is going to be sending the packets in the right order.


----------



## ripster

It's more of a theoretical thing anyway since the scan rate is limited by the bounce characteristics of the switch.

Supposedly the Filco Gen2s have faster scanning than Gen1 but I haven't been able to figure out a way to measure that without an oscilloscope.

Kinda like USB versus PS/2 I doubt anyone would see the difference in real life.


----------



## Tator Tot

You can pick up an O-Scope that could measure the scan rate for rather cheap. Though I doubt it's really worth the investment.

I do agree, that in this case, it's not really a big concern.

NKRO (over USB or PS/2) is still something I desire and require (if only for certain games.)


----------



## ch_123

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HybridCore*


So they vendor and build. Just that they sell other products at the same time they sell and make their own boards. Okay, got it.


They sell their own _brand_ of boards. They're actually made by Costar or Datacomp.


----------



## 161029

Disappointing but explains why most of the boards look the same.


----------



## ripster

I used to think there was a reason for PS/2 (for double handed games) but now that everything is a console port that's needed much less.

Plus if you really need 17+8KRO over USB get a Leopold. Or a Microsoft Sidewinder X4.


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


I used to think there was a reason for PS/2 (for double handed games) but now that everything is a console port that's needed much less.

Plus if you really need 17+8KRO over USB get a Leopold. Or a Microsoft Sidewinder X4.


I'm pretty sure a line of keyboards from Ducky features NKRO over USB as well...

But you're right - there's very little reason to use PS/2 over USB other than 6KRO


----------



## kyle-reece

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


If you do not know, Overclock.net has our own keyboards made by Ducky. They said themselves that the HQ is in Taiwan.

Also, orders we make are shipped from there.


...Thats what i just said! they're based in the republic of china, therefore count as chinese, just like whats-his-name said.


----------



## KipH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kyle-reece*


...That's what i just said! they're based in the Republic of China, therefore count as Chinese, just like whats-his-name said.


People who live in Taiwan do not call themselves Chinese any more than you would call yourself a Caucasian instead of american, Canadian or other. RoC is a county not a race.

When I talked to Ducky I got the impression they were mostly a group of enthusiasts like us but who also started a business. They were made up of forum members on both sides of the straight and at first it was difficult to actually buy a Ducky in Taiwan. They do seem to be doing RnD on their own and putting together parts from more than one source.


----------



## ripster

Yeah, I think Ducky Corp. is a bit more complicated than a HQ building in Taiwan subcontracting Costar/PLUM down the street. A lot of ROC/PRC companies are like that I hear.


----------



## anjuice

Hey everybody. So I've been enjoying my Leopold and haven't stopped being excited about every key press I make. Now I wonder, what makes the keycaps wear down? I'm already seeing the ASDF keys losing their texture, unless it's just oils from my fingers. I don't have any isopropyl alcohol at hand to see if it's just oils. Will try to get some tomorrow. The space bar looks untouched and shows no signs of wear at all. I've had this baby for a week.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *anjuice*


Hey everybody. So I've been enjoying my Leopold and haven't stopped being excited about every key press I make. Now I wonder, what makes the keycaps wear down? I'm already seeing the ASDF keys losing their texture, unless it's just oils from my fingers. I don't have any isopropyl alcohol at hand to see if it's just oils. Will try to get some tomorrow. The space bar looks untouched and shows no signs of wear at all. I've had this baby for a week.


It's oil from your fingers, plus you actually pushing the keys.

Standard wear and tear mostly.

There's not a whole lot you can do about it, besides buy new keycaps after awhile and use them.


----------



## anjuice

Ahhhh, thanks Tator Tot. Now I wonder if I could someday bust a hole in a keycap like that one picture I saw floating around.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *anjuice*


Ahhhh, thanks Tator Tot. Now I wonder if I could someday bust a hole in a keycap like that one picture I saw floating around.


With enough use, I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen to be honest.

Though, it'd take some cheap keycaps and many years of use.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


With enough use, I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen to be honest.

Though, it'd take some cheap keycaps and many years of use.


Having strong finger oils would help too. Some people seem to wear off key legends in a week.


----------



## 161029

My fingers tend to stay dry. It easy way to not wear out your keys is washing your hand with soap. My hands always feel dry after that.


----------



## Ubermicro13

Thanks for this extremely informal guide! Looks like I'll be picking up a DeCK Keyboard sometime soon!

Sent from my Thunderbolt


----------



## csm725

Deck Legend 105 Linear.. hmmm.


----------



## anjuice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore;13584247*
> My fingers tend to stay dry. It easy way to not wear out your keys is washing your hand with soap. My hands always feel dry after that.


I never put any moisturizer before I use my keyboard and I wash my hands before as well. Not too long ago I realized why my console controllers get shiny, darn you hand moisturizers


----------



## Shub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anjuice;13583198*
> Now I wonder if I could someday bust a hole in a keycap like that one picture I saw floating around.


Definitely happened to me with an old keyboard







it was a $10 Logitech though, not a high quality one. I noticed the D key was slowly growing a strange crevice in the center, which eventually became a hole.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anjuice;13587395*
> I never put any moisturizer before I use my keyboard and I wash my hands before as well. Not too long ago I realized why my console controllers get shiny, darn you hand moisturizers


For your... hands?


----------



## anjuice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shub;13587431*
> Definitely happened to me with an old keyboard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it was a $10 Logitech though, not a high quality one. I noticed the D key was slowly growing a strange crevice in the center, which eventually became a hole.


I have an old HP keyboard that already had legends wearing out within a month. Sadly no crevice, that would have been interesting to see.


----------



## anjuice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;13587945*
> For your... hands?


Well yeah, for my hands. I get dry skin easily, but it's a sacrifice to make my keycaps last longer.


----------



## v1ral

What do you guys think of the TT MEKA G1?
Or would I be better off with a Black Widow.
I want an entry level Mech. Keyboard.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v1ral;13588527*
> What do you guys think of the TT MEKA G1?
> Or would I be better off with a Black Widow.
> I want an entry level Mech. Keyboard.


Our Ducks should be in stock soon, and a bit cheaper. With the same level of quality and more switch options.

The G1 is a solid board, the 10 Keyless Meka board from Thermaltake hasn't had the pleasure of my fingers yet. I plan to get it soon enough though.

What exactly are you looking for in a keyboard?


----------



## Shub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v1ral;13588527*
> What do you guys think of the TT MEKA G1?
> Or would I be better off with a Black Widow.
> I want an entry level Mech. Keyboard.


Totally depends on what you're looking for. Do you want MX Black (linear, a bit too stiff for some people) or MX Blue switches (tactile and clicky, lighter to type on) ?


----------



## v1ral

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13588557*
> Our Ducks should be in stock soon, and a bit cheaper. With the same level of quality and more switch options.
> 
> The G1 is a solid board, the 10 Keyless Meka board from Thermaltake hasn't had the pleasure of my fingers yet. I plan to get it soon enough though.
> 
> What exactly are you looking for in a keyboard?


I actually have no idea...
I am using an el cheapo board from a local pc store.. after my G11 broke from a few drops of beer.. haha.
It feels squishy which makes me feel like typing on a soft "thing"
I guess I wanted to jump on the Mechanical Keyboard Bandwagon.
It's either a mech. keyboard or get another Logitech. pref. the G110.
Also to add, I play CSS and play SC2 pretty much it. I play FPS mostly.
Maybe a board that is right smack in the middle for gaming*of any genre and for general typing*Forums and such.
To me, a specific style of board wouldn't really matter unless it feels more solid than this sponge I am typing on atm


----------



## Tator Tot

Well the Blackwidow has a lower build quality the Meka G1, but is similar to the Logitech G series as it has Media Keys, Backlighting, and Macro keys.

It's not a bad value board, and you may like it a lot.

The Meka will feel heavy compared to your Logitech keyboard. The Blackwidow will have just about a complete opposite feel to it.

Do you have a price point you want to hit?

The Addesso MKB-135B is NKRO (BlackWidow / Ultimate are not) and has the same build quality while being only $63 Shipped. It also features media keys, Audio Pass through ports, and a USB 2.0 Hub


----------



## v1ral

I don't care about weight.. as long as build Quality is there.
budget is not set in stone yet.. however.. I do have one thing.. should be on performancepcs or amazon as they ship to my area.
I like the TT MEKA, looks nice.. I can't tell from the pictures.. but I suppose it's like a matte black finish like a usual off the shelf black keyboard.
I Do not like flashing things to an extent of course... keyboards don't have to be flashy..
Maybe media keys, back lighting, maybe some usb headers so I don't have to plug my phone into while flashing roms..


----------



## Tator Tot

Well, our Ducky Keyboards ship international. You just have to PM tankguys to get a quote from them (since their system doesn't allow for international orders.)

Price will be the biggest consideration to take, as to which keyboard to get.


----------



## v1ral

What are so great about these.. besides the OCN thing?
I know they are one of the best.. but compared to a steel series.. or the TT?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v1ral;13589242*
> What are so great about these.. besides the OCN thing?
> I know they are one of the best.. but compared to a steel series.. or the TT?


Build quality is better than the Steel Series as the keycaps are nicer.

Ours also offer NKRO over USB (in Windows) (as we have the new DK9008 G2), they offer media keys and "office keys" (Home, Internet, Email, Calculator.)
They're also some of the best built boards out there.


----------



## v1ral

Hmm. I see..
Haha.. seems out of stock atm..
I hope shipping isn't too much.
Also would be the shizzle to have something of OCN degree..


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v1ral;13589282*
> Hmm. I see..
> Haha.. seems out of stock atm..
> I hope shipping isn't too much.
> Also would be the shizzle to have something of OCN degree..


TankGuys just got the stock in on Friday. So it'll be a day or two before it's up and listed on the website.


----------



## v1ral

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13589295*
> TankGuys just got the stock in on Friday. So it'll be a day or two before it's up and listed on the website.


Sweet!..
Hopefully they still have some left by June/July*bday gift.. lol.
Budget will be around 200 with shipping*other stuff will be in this budget also.. e.g fans...fan connectors etc..which aren't related to the kb.
How about those Rosewells mech. boards?

Also TOT..
THANKS!!!!


----------



## Tator Tot

Rosewill's Mech board is made by Daitec and the same quality as Filco's and what not. It's cheaper but only comes in MX-Blue switches.

It's a good board though. The red metal plate inside of it looks sharp.


----------



## v1ral

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13589407*
> Rosewill's Mech board is made by Daitec and the same quality as Filco's and what not. It's cheaper but only comes in MX-Blue switches.
> 
> It's a good board though. The red metal plate inside of it looks sharp.


Link?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v1ral;13589420*
> Link?


Here's a good picture


----------



## v1ral

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13589463*
> Here's a good picture


Aren't these Discontinued though? or is there another Rosewill mechanical board out?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v1ral;13589492*
> Aren't these Discontinued though? or is there another Rosewill mechanical board out?


They're OOS, and on Newegg, if they have no ETA on the next shipment, they're marked as "deactivated." SO they don't show up in the list of available products.


----------



## v1ral

what would be the introduction into mechanical keyboard between mx blues and browns out of the ocn duckys ?


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v1ral;13606122*
> what would be the introduction into mechanical keyboard between mx blues and browns out of the ocn duckys ?


The blues feel more exclusive. The browns are pretty similar to your average rubber dome, except they feel slightly more crisp and consistent.


----------



## ch_123

I wouldn't describe the Browns as feeling like rubber domes, they're very light and almost linear. Relatively decent bounce-back too.


----------



## v1ral

doesnt really answer my question though, i guess the browna would be the best of both worlds?


----------



## ch_123

Blues are better for typing. Browns are better for gaming. If you want a quiet keyboard, browns would be also better.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;13606635*
> Blues are better for typing. Browns are better for gaming. If you want a quiet keyboard, browns would be also better.


Still depends on the person. Me, for example... I don't like blues for typing at all. They are my first adventure into the mechanical keyboard world and I still prefer them to rubber domes, but browns are so much better in my opinion.


----------



## RedCloudFuneral

And for me browns and reds are too light, I can't use them for gaming at all. I've yet to try blues though, planning on picking up a blue ducky when they come back in stock.


----------



## v1ral

so between the duckys and the tt meka, considering.the.switch types.. what would recommend? i am sorta set on the meka cause i fan keep my order in one place.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v1ral;13607019*
> so between the duckys and the tt meka, considering.the.switch types.. what would recommend? i am sorta set on the meka cause i fan keep my order in one place.


They're both great boards, the Ducky's have a more gamer oriented feature (able to turn Windows keys off)

The Thermaltake has the USB, Audio, & Mic ports on it though. So that's an extra bonus for some.

If you want to keep your order in one place, I'd go for the Meka.


----------



## v1ral

man tot... do you speep in this thread....? haha..
thanks again!!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v1ral;13607451*
> man tot... do you speep in this thread....? haha..
> thanks again!!


I hardly sleep, but I'll be on low activity this week.


----------



## elzhi

ok i'm about to pull the trigger,

Topre Realforce (55gm, 45gm & 35 gm version)

or

Filco Majestouch (linear),

i don't write books or anything i just want a good keyboard, i'm a gamer so i want a keyboard that is better suited for gaming of course.

thanks for reading.


----------



## Tator Tot

If you have the money for the Topre board, I would get it.

Most people consider them to be the cream of the crop as far as Mechanical Keyboards go.

Alternatively, if you're looking for an MX-Black Keyboard, I would pick up a Thermaltake Meka G1 over a Filco. The price vs features is better for the Thermaltake Meka G1.

It's also an equally well built keyboard.


----------



## RedCloudFuneral

or even better, wait for the OCN duckies, they said they got some MX blacks in the latest shipment which was due on Friday. just keep an eye on the thread.(I'm refreshing every few minutes myself







)


----------



## elzhi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


If you have the money for the Topre board, I would get it.

Most people consider them to be the cream of the crop as far as Mechanical Keyboards go.

Alternatively, if you're looking for an MX-Black Keyboard, I would pick up a Thermaltake Meka G1 over a Filco. The price vs features is better for the Thermaltake Meka G1.

It's also an equally well built keyboard.


i see, i was bit unsure about the topre because of 35, 45, and 55 gram sensitivity. (and i never had a mechanical keyboard )

that thermaltake keyboard looks good, unfortunately i can't find it in anywhere in UK.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RedCloudFuneral*


or even better, wait for the OCN duckies, they said they got some MX blacks in the latest shipment which was due on Friday. just keep an eye on the thread.(I'm refreshing every few minutes myself







)


can't find the thread could you post the link ?

thank you both for helpful and really quick replies


----------



## RedCloudFuneral

Quote:



Originally Posted by *elzhi*


i see, i was bit unsure about the topre because of 35, 45, and 55 gram sensitivity. (and i never had a mechanical keyboard )

that thermaltake keyboard looks good, unfortunately i can't find it in anywhere in UK.

can't find the thread could you post the link ?

thank you both for helpful and really quick replies










http://www.overclock.net/overclock-n...nded-line.html Here ya go.







I've seen the Meka at Amazon in the US, and on ebay, have you checked there yet?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *elzhi*


i see, i was bit unsure about the topre because of 35, 45, and 55 gram sensitivity. (and i never had a mechanical keyboard )

that thermaltake keyboard looks good, unfortunately i can't find it in anywhere in UK.



Topre keyboards also come in 55G only varieties as well. Though in the UK they're harder to find.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *elzhi*


can't find the thread could you post the link ?

thank you both for helpful and really quick replies










Here you go


----------



## elzhi

thanks again guys


----------



## ch_123

The multi-level sensitivity on the Topres is pretty subtle. Most of them are 45g.


----------



## v1ral

How is the Adesso MKB-135B hold against the TT meka or even the Black Widow?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v1ral*


How is the Adesso MKB-135B hold against the TT meka or even the Black Widow?


Build quality is about the same as the BlackWidow.

Meka G1 is built better.

The MKB-135B is one of my favorite boards that you can find cheap, as it has plenty of features, and can be had for only $60


----------



## v1ral

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Build quality is about the same as the BlackWidow.

Meka G1 is built better.

The MKB-135B is one of my favorite boards that you can find cheap, as it has plenty of features, and can be had for only $60


Hmm.. Tot you did it again.
So your saying the Adesso is like the middle guy amongst those three, I know it may not be ideal to have a mic/headphone/usb on the board but it seems convenient.


----------



## Scrappy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13613610*
> Build quality is about the same as the BlackWidow.
> 
> Meka G1 is built better.
> 
> The MKB-135B is one of my favorite boards that you can find cheap, as it has plenty of features, and can be had for only $60


Not a fan of the Meka, the switches themselves almost feel cheap, might just be the MX blacks though


----------



## ch_123

Maybe it was something to do with the build quality of the board. I found Black Cherries to be the most substantial feeling of the Cherry switches (not just in terms of force).


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;13617734*
> Maybe it was something to do with the build quality of the board. I found Black Cherries to be the most substantial feeling of the Cherry switches (not just in terms of force).


I'm inclined to agree with that. I haven't tried reds yet, but I imagine the stiffer blacks would feel at least a touch sturdier.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrappy;13617192*
> Not a fan of the Meka, the switches themselves almost feel cheap, might just be the MX blacks though


Cheap in what way?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;13618611*
> I'm inclined to agree with that. I haven't tried reds yet, but I imagine the stiffer blacks would feel at least a touch sturdier.


Reds feel a bit mediocre. It's just that the Blacks, through a combination of stiffness and (relative) smoothness have a nice beefy feel to them. As a buckling spring fanboi, this is rather important to me.


----------



## Kaankin

Hey all how's it going! Well I'm heading off to HK tomorrow for the first time







and wanted to know if any of you (especially in Asia) if there is a place I can find a ten keyless red switch KB? I will ask around when I'm get there but if I can get some guidance and pointed to the right direction I'd appreciate it, thx!


----------



## MrDucktape

Lets imagine I cannot test different mech keyboards and I need to get one to play starcraft 2. Which one: Thermaltake Tt eSPORTS MEKA // Cherry G80-3000LPC // SteelSeries 6G v2 // Razer Blackwidow. Tell


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MrDucktape*


Lets imagine I cannot test different mech keyboards and I need to get one to play starcraft 2. Which one: Thermaltake Tt eSPORTS MEKA // Cherry G80-3000LPC // SteelSeries 6G v2 // Razer Blackwidow. Tell










Which are the cheapest for you?

Meka's not bad, black switches might not be your favorite. Offers a better value than the 6Gv2 and doesn't have the odd, altered layout.

Blackwidow doesn't have the best build quality, but is usually $20 cheaper than the rest. Blue switches are great for most to type on, but again, ymmv.

The Cherry board's a nice one, but price can sometimes outweigh the value of them.


----------



## MrDucktape

All are ~same price 5€ up/down. What about das ultimate?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrDucktape;13620298*
> All are ~same price 5€ up/down. What about das ultimate?


Das is another solid board, though the others (obviously) offer more features.

Have you gotten a chance to try any of the switches yet?

Feature wise, the Thermaltake Meka G1 has the most features; but the Das has an arguably better build (if just so slightly) except that it's glossy (thus easily scratchable.)


----------



## MrDucktape

Never used mech keyboard. I think I'm gonna go with the 6Gv2 since the Meka G1 is quite more expensive than the other meka I was looking at. Das apparently is not sold in my country :S

Thank you for your help.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MrDucktape*


Never used mech keyboard. I think I'm gonna go with the 6Gv2 since the Meka G1 is quite more expensive than the other meka I was looking at. Das apparently is not sold in my country :S

Thank you for your help.


No problem, the Steel Series is a great board.

It's hard to recommend a board to someone who doesn't have switch experience though; as while some bits are true (like _most_ people enjoying blues for typing more than browns or black) they're not always true.


----------



## v1ral

i think im gonna settle with.the meka..great discussion nonetheless


----------



## Scrappy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Cheap in what way?


The thing just sounded and felt like cheap plastic sliding on cheap plastic, may has been the build maybe even the keycaps just messing with my head but it fell no where near as sturdy as my Filco


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kaankin*


Hey all how's it going! Well I'm heading off to HK tomorrow for the first time







and wanted to know if any of you (especially in Asia) if there is a place I can find a ten keyless red switch KB? I will ask around when I'm get there but if I can get some guidance and pointed to the right direction I'd appreciate it, thx!


look up kbc poker, and filco linear r.


----------



## ripster

Hong Kong guide here. Wan Chai computer centre seems to be the place to shop.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Scrappy*


The thing just sounded and felt like cheap plastic sliding on cheap plastic, may has been the build maybe even the keycaps just messing with my head but it fell no where near as sturdy as my Filco


It may have been the keycaps screwing with you. They're thin (like Signature Plastic's keycaps.)

Though the Meka's held up to gaming pretty well (not much typing been done on it by the person I sold it to.)


----------



## Kaankin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


look up kbc poker, and filco linear r.


Great thx!


----------



## Kaankin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Hong Kong guide here. Wan Chai computer centre seems to be the place to shop.


Thank you!


----------



## csm725

Are there any compact backlit mechanicals other than the Deck 82? I fear the Blacks are horrible for typing.


----------



## douglatins

I think im getting the DAS brown, but i use a different layout here. Portuguese. I hope i won't suffer the change


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725;13637775*
> Are there any compact backlit mechanicals other than the Deck 82? I fear the Blacks are horrible for typing.


There aren't very many backlit mechs in the first place, much less compact ones. The Deck 82 is the only one I know of.

Only option really is to get one and change the switches yourself, or to buy one someone already did.

Plan B is buying a Black Widow and sawing off the numpad. Let me know how it goes.


----------



## KipH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


There aren't very many backlit mechs in the first place, much less compact ones. The Deck 82 is the only one I know of.

Only option really is to get one and change the switches yourself, or to buy one someone already did.

Plan B is buying a Black Widow and sawing off the numpad. Let me know how it goes.


Plan B disclaimer: Anyone following joke advice does so at their own risk. OCN and the rest of the world take no responsibility if you saw open you own stuff and it then no longer works. But I want video if you do do it


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *douglatins*


I think im getting the DAS brown, but i use a different layout here. Portuguese. I hope i won't suffer the change


That really depends on you, and there's not anything that we can say that'll really convince you.

I've got from the basic ISO to ANSI to Modified layouts rather easily. I know Crazy9000 is an American but he uses a Japanese ISO board fairly well.

It might take some getting used to, but as long as you get to know where everything is at you should be fine.

On the flip side, you could order a Portuguese keylable set from Datacal along with a few different mechanical keyboards. 
TG3 TG136M Point of Sale Keyboard 
TG3 BL82 (Aka Deck 82) 
Or any of the Deck Legend 105 Keyboards

Alternatively, you can just get the key labels from them, and order the Das as well.


----------



## gadget_lova

What are your opinions about Mionix Zibal? is it worthed?

I've been wanting to replace my Lycosa with a mech keyboard one, n I think mionix zibal is really promising and has a black cherry MX switch that I wanted too..


----------



## Scrappy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gadget_lova*


What are your opinions about Mionix Zibal? is it worthed?

I've been wanting to replace my Lycosa with a mech keyboard one, n I think mionix zibal is really promising and has a black cherry MX switch that I wanted too..


I think black switches are over rated for gaming but it looks like a decent board, are they even released yet? I haven't really heard anything about them.


----------



## gadget_lova

My mouse n pad is from mionix, and I really satisfied with them.. so, I trust their product very much..

As far as I know, they haven't leaked the released date yet..

I'm waiting for the review though..


----------



## ch_123

@Tator Tot: Just some thoughts on something in the guide prompted by something I read in another thread

Quote:



#KRO, where # = Any Number, is the key roll over of your board; and stands for the maximum number of keys you can press without experiencing any key blocking.

Many USB mechanical Keyboards are labeled as 6KRO, meaning any 6 keys can be pressed at once without the user experiencing blocking. This is generally enough for most users. Though a limited number of games may have a problem with 6KRO. 
USB keyboards with 6KRO also allow for a maximum of 4 modifier keys to be used with those 6 normal keys. These modifiers include CTRL, ALT, Shift, & Super (Windows, Command, or Meta Key.) 
Sometimes this also includes the FN key present on select keyboards.


The way I see it, there's three types of rollover -

*n Key Rollover* - Any number or combination of keys can be pressed simultaneously, and the computer will receive them all correctly from the keyboard.

*2 Key Rollover* - Any two keys can be guaranteed to be registered properly when pressed simultaneously. Beyond that, certain combinations of keys will work, and others will cause blocking (i.e. the controller deliberately drops them to prevent ghosting). The maximum number of keys that can be registered by the computer is subject to the limitations of the interface.

*Interface-limited NKRO* - You can press any combination of keys simultaneously, as long as the amount of keys pressed does not exceed what is allowed by the interface between the keyboard and the computer. Subsequent key presses often cause previously pressed keys to be released in order to handle the newest key press.

The _x_KRO terminology is used to describe the latter two arrangements, and is very misleading because it implies that they are the same problem but with a different number of keys that can be handled at once. On a PS/2 2KRO keyboard, you can press a dozen or more keys and have them register, but certain combinations will not work. On a 6KRO keyboard, you have an absolute limit of 6 keys that can be pressed at once, but within that, blocking does not occur. The dropping of keys in 6KRO isn't blocking - it's implemented for different reasons, and has different effects.

The point is, if you start mixing them around, you get people who'll think that a 2KRO keyboard can only handle two keys at once, or think that a 6KRO keyboard can deal with a certain combinations of more than 6 keys (which is what the guide seems to imply). It's important to spell out that there are a few different reasons why a keyboard may not be able to handle any combination or number of keys.


----------



## GeoMan

Hello,

I am looking for a mechanical keyboard with anti-ghosting and the ability to disable the Windows key for gaming but also being able to use it as the Option key under Mac OS X.

I don't care about multimedia controls or USB pass-through and audio ports.

I was looking at 6G but the Windows key can't be used at all under OS X.

Any ideas?


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GeoMan;13657267*
> Hello,
> 
> I am looking for a mechanical keyboard with anti-ghosting and the ability to disable the Windows key for gaming but also being able to use it as the Option key under Mac OS X.
> 
> I don't care about multimedia controls or USB pass-through and audio ports.
> 
> I was looking at 6G but the Windows key can't be used at all under OS X.
> 
> Any ideas?


I was about to mention the Ducky keyboards we're selling at the moment but it's not Mac compatible :/ You're going to be hard pressed to find a keyboard that has swapped Option and Alt.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GeoMan;13657267*
> Hello,
> 
> I am looking for a mechanical keyboard with anti-ghosting and the ability to disable the Windows key for gaming but also being able to use it as the Option key under Mac OS X.
> 
> I don't care about multimedia controls or USB pass-through and audio ports.
> 
> I was looking at 6G but the Windows key can't be used at all under OS X.
> 
> Any ideas?


There's the keyboard actually designed for use with Mac's, which is the Matias Tactile Pro III, it's a solid keyboard to get but a little expensive.

If you can find a Ducky DK9008 then that will also do what you want. The DK9008-G2 does not work under Mac OSX though, as the way the controller is designed, it conflicts with the USB_NKRO work around used by Ducky to make the keyboard do NKRO under USB.


----------



## GeoMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13658093*
> There's the keyboard actually designed for use with Mac's, which is the Matias Tactile Pro III, it's a solid keyboard to get but a little expensive.
> 
> If you can find a Ducky DK9008 then that will also do what you want. The DK9008-G2 does not work under Mac OSX though, as the way the controller is designed, it conflicts with the USB_NKRO work around used by Ducky to make the keyboard do NKRO under USB.


I am looking at a Filco. It supports OS X but i don't know if you can disable the Windows key (i can do it by modifying the registry but i am looking for a quicker method).

Currently i am using an Altec keyboard which i bought back in 1995 with my first PC. It is heavy, mechanical (white switches) and has a metal back-plate.
Being so old it doesn't have a Windows key and unfortunately doesn't support anti-ghosting.
It is amazing that although i use it on a daily basis all keys work perfectly and the lettering hasn't rub-off!


----------



## runeazn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GeoMan;13664632*
> I am looking at a Filco. It supports OS X but i don't know if you can disable the Windows key (i can do it by modifying the registry but i am looking for a quicker method).
> 
> Currently i am using an Altec keyboard which i bought back in 1995 with my first PC. It is heavy, mechanical (white switches) and has a metal back-plate.
> Being so old it doesn't have a Windows key and unfortunately doesn't support anti-ghosting.
> It is amazing that although i use it on a daily basis all keys work perfectly and the lettering hasn't rub-off!


you can use a key program changer..
itll change your keys, but it needs to be on always..


----------



## elzhi

so in the end i bought the Topre Realforce (105 UB)

i really like it, will have to get used to its layout (coming from laptop like KB) to fully appreciate its awesomeness.

i think i'll need a wrist rest, can anyone recommend one ?


----------



## XbeaTX

new version of TT Esports ... Meka G Unit!

switch Cherry Black tactile

2 x usb 2.0

The worldâ€™s first gaming mechanical keyboard with both on-board memory and illumination.
Normal mode / Game mode switchable. Win. key disabled in Game mode to avoid any accidental pressing
ISS (Instant Shift System) advanced macro key shifting function allows Gamer to reach all 60 macro keys within one profile.

It was launched at Computex in these days... for me is the perfect gaming keyboard!!







what do you think?


----------



## ripster

I like that it is USB.


----------



## runeazn

ripster?
didnt you read tactile black switch







?
haha seems fishy..


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

http://www.overclock.net/13708945-post2720.html

Meant to post that here, but oh well.


----------



## dr_dx

Anyone currently making a US 104 layout with plate mounted MX Red's?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## runeazn

i must ahev that keyboard!!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dr_dx*


Anyone currently making a US 104 layout with plate mounted MX Red's?

Thanks in advance.


Leopold FC500R, though they're harder to get ahold of.

There are also some limited edition Filco keyboards with MX-Red switches (104 Key and Tenkeyless.)


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dr_dx*


Anyone currently making a US 104 layout with plate mounted MX Red's?

Thanks in advance.


http://www.armygroup.com.tw/shop/goods.php?id=6095 Very best keyboard company you can find.







. That site is legit. I have boughten a couple keyboards from them. Always fast shipping.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:



Originally Posted by *XbeaTX*











new version of TT Esports ... Meka G Unit!

switch Cherry Black tactile

2 x usb 2.0

The worldâ€™s first gaming mechanical keyboard with both on-board memory and illumination.
Normal mode / Game mode switchable. Win. key disabled in Game mode to avoid any accidental pressing
ISS (Instant Shift System) advanced macro key shifting function allows Gamer to reach all 60 macro keys within one profile.

It was launched at Computex in these days... for me is the perfect gaming keyboard!!







what do you think?


I would like to buy this board. Not only have macro keys, but also black switches plus tactile feedback. If only it clicked as well.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone*


I would like to buy this board. Not only have macro keys, but also black switches plus tactile feedback. If only it clicked as well.


That information is actually up for debate. If it's a heavy switch with tactile feedback, then it's a MX-Clear.

If it's an MX-Black then there is no tactile feedback.

Still, yes, it does look like a solid board.


----------



## runeazn

yeah I hope its mx-clear, but problem is they are discontinued from the asian cherry order list.

and if i remember thermaltake was asian right?


----------



## 161029

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*


http://www.overclock.net/13708945-post2720.html

Meant to post that here, but oh well.


Oh...my...god. Want. I wish I was at Computex right now. They're there right now right?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *runeazn*


yeah, i hope its mx-clear but problem is they are scrapped from the asian cherry order list.

and if i remember thermaltake was asian right?


Yeah, they are HQ'd in Taiwan


----------



## 161029

I would go grammar nazi right now but I'm too lazy.


----------



## runeazn

Yeah that means that this is 99,99% not mx clear.
or they are freshly imported out of EU.

They are discontinued in Asia and still available in EU, but MOQ is increased to : 20000 pieces.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HybridCore*


I would go grammar nazi right now but I'm too lazy.


I don't believe Runeazn's first language is English.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *runeazn*


than its no clears as they are only available in the european market


Thermaltake is International, they could easily get them.

EDIT: As in, they have both US based, and EU based HQ's as well. So they could place the order from any of them, and just have the switches shipped to the factory in China or Taiwan.


----------



## 161029

Okay. Yeah, I see that now.


----------



## runeazn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I don't believe Runeazn's first language is English.

Thermaltake is International, they could easily get them.

EDIT: As in, they have both US based, and EU based HQ's as well. So they could place the order from any of them, and just have the switches shipped to the factory in China or Taiwan.


Yeah problem is that the production time is changed to a half year








so or they mis marketed it.

or they want to make clears of them but might not finish in time.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *runeazn*


Yeah problem is that the production time is changed to a half year








so or they mis marketed it.

or they want to make clears of them but might not finish in time.


It would explain why it's taken so long for the boards to come out then (at least, so long after the Meka and Meka G1 launch.)


----------



## runeazn

but i still think they are blacks..
"
Tt eSports Readies New Meka G Unit Mechanical Keyboard

Thermaltake is preparing to update its Meka series of gaming keyboards with the introduction of the Meka G Unit - the first mechanical keyboard to feature on-board memory and individually backlit keys. It boasts a 1.8m sleeved cable with gold-plated USB 2.0 connector, the ISS (Instant Shift System) advanced macro key shifting function (gamers can access all 60 macro keys in one profile), Cherry Black switches (with a MTBF of 50,000,000 clicks), seven multimedia keys, and a hub with two USB 2.0 ports and audio connectors. The Meka G Unit is expected to debut at Computex 2011 (May 31st - June 4th)."

they dont say anythign about tactileness..


----------



## Tator Tot

Ah, yeah if it doesn't there, then they are probably blacks.

Normally, 50mil Clicks, means they are blacks. But some documents and stats report that value wrong (as in, for the other MX switches as well.)


----------



## 161029

I wish some companies that use only one switch for the board would give you the same board with different switches like the SS 7G.


----------



## KipH

Hey guys. I got a lot of pictures and even some video of all the Mec keyboards I could find at the computex. Please head over to my write up on it and take a look. If you can wait, I will be sorting it out and posting it a lot cleaner soon.

Look here: Kip69 at computex

And here is just one example:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_LfCFR8r1w[/ame[/URL]]


----------



## dr_dx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13751608*
> Leopold FC500R, though they're harder to get ahold of.
> 
> There are also some limited edition Filco keyboards with MX-Red switches (104 Key and Tenkeyless.)


OK, I think I have decided to wait until Ione comes out with its Coolermaster branded MX red board. Hopefully it will be much more available and affordable in the US.

Can someone tell me which type stabilizer is better - Filco's wire type or Leopold's Cherry type and why?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Scrappy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dr_dx;13756518*
> OK, I think I have decided to wait until Ione comes out with its Coolermaster branded MX red board. Hopefully it will be much more available and affordable in the US.
> 
> Can someone tell me which type stabilizer is better - Filco's wire type or Leopold's Cherry type and why?
> 
> Thanks in advance.










filco because everyone who owns a leopold and filco says that.


----------



## yellowtoblerone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69;13753863*
> Hey guys. I got a lot of pictures and even some video of all the Mec keyboards I could find at the computex. Please head over to my write up on it and take a look. If you can wait, I will be sorting it out and posting it a lot cleaner soon.
> 
> Look here: Kip69 at computex
> 
> And here is just one example:


Very nice. Can the movable function keys be placed right on the edge of the top left rail? For example, can it be placed hanging half on half off directly on top of the macro keys?

The blue and yellow, quite gross - even though them people in gh love them yellow.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dr_dx;13756518*
> OK, I think I have decided to wait until Ione comes out with its Coolermaster branded MX red board. Hopefully it will be much more available and affordable in the US.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


You mean wait until Coolermaster comes out with its Ione made MX red board. I think there will be more than just the Coolermaster ones. Ione seem to be desperate to jump in with anyone who can help out their rep. I have pictures of there unbranded board up in my report as a "teaser" and lots of pictures of the CM branded one.

HOWEVER: Coolermaster could not tell me when the reds will ship and there was some thought that they would not ship in North America. USA will get blacks first and Europe get blue, is what I gathered from their cryptic remarks to my digging.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yellowtoblerone;13756754*
> Very nice. Can the movable function keys be placed right on the edge of the top left rail? For example, can it be placed hanging half on half off directly on top of the macro keys?
> 
> The blue and yellow, quite gross - even though them people in gh love them yellow.


I am hoping they offer some of the blue'n yellow keys as replacements, black with some yellow asdw and Esc would look nicer I think. The small Dpad needs to be on the track to be stable, so it can hang off a bit, but not too much. If you watch you can hear where it starts to click, that's about how much it can hang off. Also it wont go too far to the right. It does have a very thin usb cable that gets caught when you flip it up then back. They are going to work on that after I pointed it out to him. The longer USB cables are nice and thick. I forgot to mention that there is some back lighting on the a/b keys and the volume knob. They are looking at a price point of near the $140US mark. I think they will have to come down just a big if they want to sell but if the extra features appeal to you its another option.


----------



## runeazn

are you sure it isnt mechanical?
maybe ML switches?
laptop size mechanicals..


----------



## runeazn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrappy;13756541*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> filco because everyone who owns a leopold and filco says that.


well it changes the feel, a cherry style.
but you have less chance of it becoming squeeky.

oops double post sorry


----------



## Scrappy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *runeazn;13757833*
> well it changes the feel, a cherry style.
> but you have less chance of it becoming squeeky.
> 
> oops double *psort* sorry


Heck yea, caught runeazn before he could ninja edit.


----------



## runeazn

lol..

as i said its not for my benefit








read mah sig XD


----------



## 161029

Lol. Ninja quote.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *runeazn;13757820*
> are you sure it isnt mechanical?
> maybe ML switches?
> laptop size mechanicals..


The Dermo the movable function D keys? They told me it was not mechanical. I did not argue


----------



## Scrappy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69;13758171*
> The Dermo the movable function D keys? They told me it was not mechanical. I did not argue


It sounded like rubber domes to me, I don't like it though seems incredibly annoying. Is the num pad wireless or does it plug in when it's on the side?


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69;13757651*
> The movable function key pad does have a very thin USB cable that gets caught when you flip it up then back. They are going to work on that after I pointed it out to him.


Its all USB on its own cable. The movable function key pad has a very thin USB cable, actually the thinnest one I have ever seen, more like free ear buds thin. The 10 key pad is connected by a USB port as well, I suspect it would also work if you used an extension cable but one is not included.


----------



## Scrappy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69;13758226*
> Its all USB on its own cable. The movable function key pad has a very thin USB cable, actually the thinnest one I have ever seen, more like free ear buds thin. The 10 key pad is connected by a USB port as well, I suspect it would also work if you used an extension cable but one is not included.


So the thing takes 3 usb cable?


----------



## runeazn

no i think they end up in the controller of the keyboard and it changes it to 1 total usb signal


----------



## Scrappy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *runeazn;13758240*
> no i think they end up in the controller of the keyboard and it changes it to 1 total usb signal


A little better but you will still never catch me with one


----------



## Jeci

So guys quick question how much would you buy a Model M for at the moment in GBP please!


----------



## runeazn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeci;13758272*
> So guys quick question how much would you buy a Model M for at the moment in GBP please!


depends.
you can get them as low as 5 quid.

but can go upto 30 quid.


----------



## Jeci

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *runeazn;13758278*
> depends.
> you can get them as low as 5 quid.
> 
> but can go upto 30 quid.


Thanks sir! Much appreciated


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeci;13758272*
> So guys quick question how much would you buy a Model M for at the moment in GBP please!


Depends.

UK layout Model Ms are far less common than the US layout ones. I've seen them go for as high as 50-60 pounds on UK eBay. It really depends on how many are around, and who wants one.

30 pounds is probably a decent enough price for one though, unless it's something very unusual or rare.


----------



## Scrappy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;13758306*
> Depends.
> 
> UK layout Model Ms are far less common than the US layout ones. I've seen them go for as high as 50-60 pounds on UK eBay. It really depends on how many are around, and who wants one.
> 
> 30 pounds is probably a decent enough price for one though.


Psh who uses the UK layout, U-S-A U-S-A


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *runeazn;13758240*
> no i think they end up in the controller of the keyboard and it changes it to 1 total usb signal


The thin cable actually goes into one of the 2 USB ports on the back of the keyboard. This makes me wonder what would happen if you just plugged it into the computer or other keyboard. I hope they do send me one for testing now, I see a few more things that need to be tested.

When I first saw it I was not thrilled by the look and style of the board. But the owner asked me to sit down and bang away and he actually took notes about what I said. I found out that he did some good research into the ergonomics and need of the users. If you have any constructive feed back for him I will be getting in touch with him and can pass on any good sugestions we have.


----------



## Scrappy

Some optional way to attach the slider thing without it being over any keys would be nice.


----------



## runeazn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69;13758334*
> The thin cable actually goes into one of the 2 USB ports on the back of the keyboard. This makes me wonder what would happen if you just plugged it into the computer or other keyboard. I hope they do send me one for testing now, I see a few more things that need to be tested.
> 
> When I first saw it I was not thrilled by the look and style of the board. But the owner asked me to sit down and bang away and he actually took notes about what I said. I found out that he did some good research into the ergonomics and need of the users. If you have any constructive feed back for him I will be getting in touch with him and can pass on any good sugestions we have.


as i said, put ML switches in those D keys,


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrappy;13758338*
> Some optional way to attach the slider thing without it being over any keys would be nice.


It does come with it's own little stand and what not, so it could be set to the side of the keyboard. I like it there, as it allows you to hit the keys rather easily.


----------



## Ooimo

Thanks


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


Its all USB on its own cable. The movable function key pad has a very thin USB cable, actually the thinnest one I have ever seen, more like free ear buds thin. The 10 key pad is connected by a USB port as well, I suspect it would also work if you used an extension cable but one is not included.


USB>PS/2 in that regard.


----------



## KipH

Yes Rip, we know









But I am now kicking myself. I missed Ducky at the Computex! Arggg, why did I not think to look if they were there. Its up on the Chinese Engadget.

Mostly in Chinese but some nice pictures here: computex 2011 ducky keyboard/

"The mechanical keyboard market is getting more competitive with lots of similar products to choose from. To set itself apart, Ducky Channel is making keyboards with more features and more bang for the buck. One has illuminated keys coming in at $3000 NTD and another one is value-oriented and can be had for $999 NTD." { $3000= about $100 US while $1000 is about $30! Wow! Less than my I-Rocks}

But it sounds very good for them.


----------



## Tator Tot

The $30 one is the DK1087 XM, with XM Alps.

It's cheap (like the ABS M1) but you get what you pay for (in terms of quality of switches, build quality shouldn't be too bad though.)


----------



## ripster

They cut off the legs.

That was the best part.


----------



## nz_nails

Hi, anyone know if this is a re branded model m.

Cheers








[/URL] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]


----------



## ripster

Nope.

Some other clone.


----------



## scotishhaggis

Hey guys after reading the guide . I am a changed man lol. Just got myself a razer black wido the cheaper versio.

I suffer from rsi now and again and this thing seems to stop the strain . Loving it so far.

Can most keys on these types of boards be swapped or replaced ?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *scotishhaggis*


Hey guys after reading the guide . I am a changed man lol. Just got myself a razer black wido the cheaper versio.

I suffer from rsi now and again and this thing seems to stop the strain . Loving it so far.

Can most keys on these types of boards be swapped or replaced ?


Yes, since they mostly use a common switch (all cherry MX switches have the same stem), there are a few options for replacement caps. You will however probably have to keep the macro ones stock.

I know Ducky offers replacement sets, and Geekhack has group buys for them from time to time. Pay close attention to the layout of the key sets if you do end up getting one; if you get a layout with a big enter key, you won't be able to put it on properly







.


----------



## MdMa11

Is there any other mechanical keyboards that incorporate a palm/wrist rest and feature MX Browns besides the ZOWIE Gear CELERITAS?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MdMa11*


Is there any other mechanical keyboards that incorporate a palm/wrist rest and feature MX Browns besides the ZOWIE Gear CELERITAS?


I remember Xarmor having a built in rest.

Anyways, in unrelated news, 15% off Razer products @ newegg.

15% OFF All RAZER PC Gaming Products: BTEKDKD28 (6/8)

Source


----------



## scotishhaggis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Yes, since they mostly use a common switch (all cherry MX switches have the same stem), there are a few options for replacement caps. You will however probably have to keep the macro ones stock.

I know Ducky offers replacement sets, and Geekhack has group buys for them from time to time. Pay close attention to the layout of the key sets if you do end up getting one; if you get a layout with a big enter key, you won't be able to put it on properly







.


Thanks for the info . I love it already to honest


----------



## MdMa11

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


I remember Xarmor having a built in rest.


It does have a built in rest, but it uses MX Blue switches, I am looking for MX Browns.


----------



## Grief

doesn't the steel series 7G have a rest?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *MdMa11*   It does have a built in rest, but it uses MX Blue switches, I am looking for MX Browns.  
They have either blue or brown.    Amazon.com: XArmor U9 Cherry MX brown mechanical keybord: Electronics


----------



## MdMa11

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Grief*


doesn't the steel series 7G have a rest?


It does, but uses MX Black as far as I am aware.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


They have either blue or brown. Amazon.com: XArmor U9 Cherry MX brown mechanical keybord: Electronics


Awesome, don't mind if its detachable at all.

Any others?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote: 
   Originally Posted by *MdMa11*   It does have a built in rest, but it uses MX Blue switches, I am looking for MX Browns.  
   U9BL-S


----------



## MdMa11

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MdMa11*


Is there any other mechanical keyboards that incorporate a palm/wrist rest and feature MX Browns besides the ZOWIE Gear CELERITAS?


Just so no one is confused, the Zowie Celeritas doesn't actually have a wrist rest. I just assumed it had a smaller one looking at pics of it.

And after reading some reviews it would appear the XArmor U9 doesn't do NKRO, but the Back-Lit versions do?!?


----------



## Scrappy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MdMa11;13783451*
> Just so no one is confused, the Zowie Celeritas doesn't actually have a wrist rest. I just assumed it had a smaller one looking at pics of it.
> 
> And after reading some reviews it would appear the XArmor U9 doesn't do NKRO, but the Back-Lit versions do?!?


They save a few $ on the diodes required for the NKRO


----------



## MdMa11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrappy;13796335*
> They save a few $ on the diodes required for the NKRO


Bastards.. I don't want a back-lit keyboard.

It doesn't seem like there is anything that fits my criteria.


----------



## slytown

Just ordered my Ducky from Tankguys today. Can't wait. I opted for ABS just cuz it seemed the rougher PBTs would be uncomfortable. I guess I could always purchase PBTs later.


----------



## ripster

The Ducky PBT Keys are very nice.

Review here.









I'm not sure why Runeazn thought the ABS keys were lasered. The Ducky ones are certainly Pad Printed.


----------



## slytown

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13800459*
> The Ducky PBT Keys are very nice.
> 
> Review here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure why Runeazn thought the ABS keys were lasered. The Ducky ones are certainly Pad Printed.


Yea, I've read that review.


----------



## ripster

The author takes good pics.

The ones in the OP somehow lost their watermarks though.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


The author takes good pics.

The ones in the OP somehow lost their watermarks though.


They were the originals from the guide, before water marks were placed on them and gunked up the place.


----------



## ripster

Clearly the sign of an egomaniac.


----------



## KipH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Clearly the sign of an egomaniac.


 If one refers to ones self in 3rd person I would be inclined to agree


----------



## ripster

The Parole board says no early release until I show empathy toward others.


----------



## Scrappy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


The Parole board says no early release until I show empathy toward others.










I guess no early release for you.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Scrappy*









I guess no early release for you.


Not until he feels my pain of having just a measly 6KRO over USB.


----------



## Scrappy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Not until he feels my pain of having just a measly 6KRO over USB.










he always does, ripster's the guy who swears by USB.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13803316*
> The Parole board says no early release until I show empathy toward others.


empathy is for the weak
the iron fist is what you need


----------



## bluexselvedge

can i get some opinions on the Filco Ninja Majestouch-2 keyboard? looking for a board with brown switches and im leaning on this model.

http://www.amazon.com/Majestouch-2-Tactile-Action-Keyboard-FKBN104M/dp/B004Z0XR2O/ref=sr_1_12?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1307685916&sr=1-12]Amazon.com: Filco Ninja Majestouch-2, NKR, Tactile Action, USA Keyboard FKBN104M/EFB2: Electronics[/URL]


----------



## Scrappy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bluexselvedge;13818624*
> can i get some opinions on the Filco Ninja Majestouch-2 keyboard? looking for a board with brown switches and im leaning on this model.
> 
> Amazon.com: Filco Ninja Majestouch-2, NKR, Tactile Action, USA Keyboard FKBN104M/EFB2: Electronics


Buy now, thank me later.
Seriously though this is one of the most recommended boards on this forums, if people are in the price range we push them to the Filcos.


----------



## bluexselvedge

just what i wanted to hear... thanks


----------



## AdeMiller

I just wanted to say thanks to all the people who contributed to the mechanical keyboard guide and the other threads on this board. My Filco Ninja Majestouch-2 arrived the other day and I'm very happy with it.

Cheers,

Ade


----------



## reaper~

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AdeMiller*


I just wanted to say thanks to all the people who contributed to the mechanical keyboard guide and the other threads on this board. My Filco Ninja Majestouch-2 arrived the other day and I'm very happy with it.

Cheers,

Ade


Congrats and since this is your first post, welcome to OCN.








That Ninja is a thing of beauty. I especially like the black logo in front.. very cool.


----------



## ripster

Hey, Tom's Guide copied the animated gifs in the OP!!

Oh wait, those were copied from Geekhack.

Nvm.


----------



## csm725

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13854073*
> Hey, Tom's Guide copied the animated gifs in the OP!!
> 
> Oh wait, those were copied from Geekhack.
> 
> Nvm.


Ripster, did you start GH or something?


----------



## ripster

No, actually I came on board about 2 years after it was started.

Looks like Tom's Hardware copy and pasted from the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide.

Don't you just hate CopyPasta?


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:


> Cherry MX Black switches are purely linear (non-tactile), making them ideal for first-person shooter games. Since the keys in this type of gaming scenario are pressed frequently (and often with considerable force), a detectable pressure point is not necessary, and in some cases even disruptive.
> 
> Those who frequently make mistakes while typing will also benefit from this keyboard's relatively high operating force, which helps to avoid accidental strikes. This type of switch has most in common with the non-mechanical variety widespread in gaming keyboards. But it offers considerably more feeling and security against error, thanks to its high compression force. These keyboards are also relatively quiet, as far as mechanical switches go.


Quote:


> Cherry MX-Black switches are linear (non-tactile) switches, these are considered one of the best switch types for gaming. When gaming, having a tactile bump does absolutely nothing because you're going to be bottoming out anyway. So these give you a very smooth feel. The actuation and release points are at the exact same position as well. So games that require a lot of double tapping become easier than on any other keyswitch. However, most people don't enjoy typing on them that much do in part, to their linear nature.
> If you're a person who tends to hit a wrong key every so often while gaming, these will be beneficial in that the high actuation force will help prevent many of those accidental presses.


Which one is from the mech keyboard guide and which one is from toms hardware? I would be furious if someone completely stole my whole write-up like they did.


----------



## ripster

Manyak is a better writer.


----------



## ch_123

Mommy, what's a "bent spring"?


----------



## ripster

Hah, haven't looked through the comments.

+1 Rep to this dude.
Quote:


> reasonablevoice 06/13/2011 12:13 PM
> Overclock.net is a website with user generated information and images. You should have attributed those images to the user in question and linked back to the Mechanical Keyboard guide you took them from.
> If anyone wants a more in depth guide go search for Mechanical Keyboard guide on Overclock.net. Manyak put a lot of time into it. Also user Ripster has a lot of good info.


Even though I'm a bit of an afterthought.


----------



## magna224

Hey, at least you were recognized as a major contributor. They could put your name in; what is it tahoma? he got the capital R though.


----------



## v1ral

Haha.. That is funny.
Anyways.
I can get a Filco on Amazon for 162 w/ shipping or I can get a DAS or a Meka G1 for a little bit cheaper.
What should I do?


----------



## ripster

I like the 3KRO bit.

There IS no 3KRO. Sure sign of overzealous copy pasting.


----------



## Tator Tot

An Email has been sent to Tom's Hardware about the matter and they've been told to cite Overclock.net and to use our Citations as well. (As in, crediting Ripster, ch_123, and the others who have contributed.)


----------



## aldfig0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi;13854283*
> Which one is from the mech keyboard guide and which one is from toms hardware? I would be furious if someone completely stole my whole write-up like they did.


Those two paragraphs are hardly copies of each other. Did you read them yourself? The first sentence is quite similar, but the rest looks ok to me. There are not too many ways you can phrase the same facts. I'm sure you've done much worse in your schoolwork.

Edit:
Let me make this more clear. For example, I can open up two different math textbooks and look up the definition for, say, the chain rule. They turn out to be nearly identical. Is that because of plagiarism, or is it because it is simply what the definition is?


----------



## ch_123

To continue your analogy, if a textbook has a wrong definition of the chain rule, and a subsequent book has the same wrong definition worded in a very similar style of writing...

@Tator Tot: Good stuff. Maybe you could even get them to fix "Bent Spring".... *makes self-strangling motions*


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aldfig0;13863811*
> Those two paragraphs are hardly copies of each other. Did you read them yourself? The first sentence is quite similar, but the rest looks ok to me. There are not too many ways you can phrase the same facts. I'm sure you've done much worse in your schoolwork.
> 
> Edit:
> Let me make this more clear. For example, I can open up two different math textbooks and look up the definition for, say, the chain rule. They turn out to be nearly identical. Is that because of plagiarism, or is it because it is simply what the definition is?


Read:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;13866155*
> To continue your analogy, if a textbook has a wrong definition of the chain rule, and a subsequent book has the same wrong definition worded in a very similar style of writing...


The problem with it is the fact that everything manyak mentions, toms hardware mentions and nothing more. This is true for the whole article. It is like a research paper with only one source. If I did that in my school work I would be failing.


----------



## ripster

Plus Manyaks writing is much better.

Never did understand this sentence.
Quote:


> We affix great importance to a native PS/2 interface, because the current high-end keyboards have at least one of these ports. We also used technology and games that exclude delays caused by an overloaded system.


----------



## Tator Tot

Unfortunately, no matter how many emails you send, you can't "fix" stupid.

We may have our d debates and differences here, but I doubt any of them knew what they were talking about when they started to blindly copy and paste photos and text.


----------



## crun

This question was asked in post number 8973, but there was no real answer:
Where can I buy the SS 7G palmrest for SS 6Gv2?


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crun;13868256*
> This question was asked in post number 8973, but there was no real answer:
> Where can I buy the SS 7G palmrest for SS 6Gv2?


You can't. They don't sell it separate.


----------



## crun

That's too bad. Any other black, comfortable and durable wrist/palmrest for this keyboard worth considering?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crun;13868256*
> This question was asked in post number 8973, but there was no real answer:
> Where can I buy the SS 7G palmrest for SS 6Gv2?


You cannot buy it as it's own piece.

You can try contacting Steel Series to see if you can order one from them. That's your best option.


----------



## spacegoast

Im really considering one of these mech keyboards, just not sure which one would suit me best. I play a lot of FPS games, currently in the Witcher 2 though. I would like something with quiet keys and that is my main requirement. I am considering a Filco Ninja with MX browns or Das S keyboard. What would guys recommend for me?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spacegoast;13868574*
> Im really considering one of these mech keyboards, just not sure which one would suit me best. I play a lot of FPS games, currently in the Witcher 2 though. I would like something with quiet keys and that is my main requirement. I am considering a Filco Ninja with MX browns or Das S keyboard. What would guys recommend for me?


Both are equally well built keyboards, and solid options.

The Filco Ninja will look a bit _better_ because of it's unique printing design. Though, the keycap tops will get very shiny over use (due to the coating Filco puts on their keycaps, unless it's not on the Ninja.)

The Das on the other hand, is prone to scratches because of the glossy body.

Those are the only real cons. Either are great boards.

The OCN Ducky with ABS Keycaps is also the same general quality with the extra features of media keys and the office keys. It should be less than the DAS unless you use a Student discount with the Das, then the Das is $2 cheaper.


----------



## spacegoast

Cool, thanks Tator. Now would those 2 be fairly quiet as far as the "clicking" or bottoming out? I hate loud keys. I am currently using a Microsoft Ergonomic 4000 because I like the squishy keys and they are pretty quiet. Its just getting old now and time to step it up to something better.


----------



## flyinion

Hi everyone, I know I'm new but chose to put my first post in here. I've been looking at mechanical keyboards to replace my Sidewinder X6 since the paint is chipping off the keys and I've never really used the macro keys anyway on it. I'm not really sure which switch type I should be looking at. I was able to try the Razer in a store last night and the click feel was ok, but I wasn't a fan of the noise on the blues. So I was thinking either a Ducky from the overclock.net/ducky collaboration with browns in it, or possibly a SteelSeries 6gv2 which has blacks.

I keep reading the blacks are great for gaming but not for typing and the browns are a good mix, but also that some people actually like the blacks for typing as well. Nothing locally carries anything with these switches though so I have no way to try before I buy. I've also read questionable build quality reviews on the SS boards which surprised me (keycaps falling off constantly)

What advice can you guys give me? My time is probably 30-40% typing (maybe less now that I finished some classes) which includes general email, internet, and photo editing (not really typing I guess). The rest is gaming which is 75-80% MMO type gaming like WoW and then some FPS such as CoD or Battlefield games.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *spacegoast*


Cool, thanks Tator. Now would those 2 be fairly quiet as far as the "clicking" or bottoming out? I hate loud keys. I am currently using a Microsoft Ergonomic 4000 because I like the squishy keys and they are pretty quiet. Its just getting old now and time to step it up to something better.


The Clicking of a MX-Blue switch is rather sharp. So those switches probably would not be for you.

The Das Silent has a "clack" when you bottom out and it's a rather deep tone. You would most likely be fine with it as soon as you adjusted to the key-switch pressure (and not bottoming out often then.)

Das also has a satisfaction guarantee that lasts 30 Days. So that's a very nice addition. you just eat the cost of shipping.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flyinion*


Hi everyone, I know I'm new but chose to put my first post in here. I've been looking at mechanical keyboards to replace my Sidewinder X6 since the paint is chipping off the keys and I've never really used the macro keys anyway on it. I'm not really sure which switch type I should be looking at. I was able to try the Razer in a store last night and the click feel was ok, but I wasn't a fan of the noise on the blues. So I was thinking either a Ducky from the overclock.net/ducky collaboration with browns in it, or possibly a SteelSeries 6gv2 which has blacks.

I keep reading the blacks are great for gaming but not for typing and the browns are a good mix, but also that some people actually like the blacks for typing as well. Nothing locally carries anything with these switches though so I have no way to try before I buy. I've also read questionable build quality reviews on the SS boards which surprised me (keycaps falling off constantly)

What advice can you guys give me? My time is probably 30-40% typing (maybe less now that I finished some classes) which includes general email, internet, and photo editing (not really typing I guess). The rest is gaming which is 75-80% MMO type gaming like WoW and then some FPS such as CoD or Battlefield games.


The Ducky keyboard wouldn't be a bad option, the real question is do you want a switch with more force behind it (as the MX-Black switches will feel very resistant compared to a used rubber dome) while the MX-Browns will feel a lot alike a rubber dome keyboard (except a bit more springy, like a newer board instead of a used one.)

Are there any particular features you're looking for?


----------



## flyinion

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


The Ducky keyboard wouldn't be a bad option, the real question is do you want a switch with more force behind it (as the MX-Black switches will feel very resistant compared to a used rubber dome) while the MX-Browns will feel a lot alike a rubber dome keyboard (except a bit more springy, like a newer board instead of a used one.)

Are there any particular features you're looking for?


I think first is actually keycap reliability after having the paint flake off the X6 (clear caps with black & white paint to let the lighting show through). Next is just plain reliability of the keys which is why I'm looking at a mechanical. I've killed a few ctrl and alt keys using Ventrilo or teamspeak on the standard rubber dome keyboard. I'm thinking as far as use I'm looking for a switch style that's primarily game oriented with typing being secondary now that I'm done with classes for quite a while and won't be typing up large papers and other work week after week anymore.

After I posted I started reading some recommendations for the Deck keyboards and I'm a bit interested in them for the lighting (again not because I can't type since I can but because of the effect). It looks like there I have a choice of MX blacks or clears and it sounds like the clears are the tactile feedback of the browns with the force of the blacks? Is there an easy way to explain the difference between say the MX blacks and a standard dome "switch" like I'd find on a Sidewinder X6 since I can't actually test in person without ordering something?


----------



## aldfig0

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MahiMahiMahi*


The problem with it is the fact that everything manyak mentions, toms hardware mentions and nothing more. This is true for the whole article. It is like a research paper with only one source. If I did that in my school work I would be failing.


I don't remember much of the PS2/USB stuff in Manyak's article.

But whatever. It's like you guys don't want mechanical keyboards to become mainstream. Maybe you will lose your "elite" status if everyone has them. I don't see Tom's Hardware doing too many more keyboard articles if this is the response they get. I would like to be able to go to school or work someday and not have to type on a rubber dome.


----------



## Tator Tot

Well a few things first: 
No switches are actually _designed_ for gaming. Some consider Black's better for gaming because there is no tactility (so when you push it half way down, the switch registers it being pressed without you feeling anything.)

Deck Keyboards are some of the best you can get. 
For the clears, you've got that mostly right. Though they feel "more" tactile because of the heavier weight (but the only difference really is just the spring.

They feel slightly lighter than Blacks though (as the spring is only 55G not 60G)

The best way to put in what a black feels like is you take a clicky pen and take out the part that makes it click. It's just a strait push down on every switch with no feeling besides pure resistance. 
Many folks like them for this reason, as it makes them feel "heavy duty" or more durrable than the other MX-Switches (which is slightly true since they are rated at 50 Million Actuation vs the 20 & 30 million of the MX Blues and MX Browns/Clears respectively.)

A Tactile switch is like the animated pictures you see in the OP: about half way down, when the switch is being pressed down, you have a short increase in resistance (that makes the switches about 10G heavier) and thus offer a greater resistance for a short period to let you know the switch has activated.


----------



## Polarity

i just bought a daskeyboard ultimate silent model S to replace my 6gv2 
i also bought a key puller and i took the number keys 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0 buttons from my 6gv2 to put it onto my das...because when i play sc2 i get mixed up where are the numbers and stuff like that :x

IMO i love mx cherry browns the most. blues are annoying. blacks make my fingers get fatigue.. also scared of carpal tunnel symdrone :X


----------



## flyinion

Quote:



Originally Posted by *EffnNice*


i just bought a daskeyboard ultimate silent model S to replace my 6gv2 
i also bought a key puller and i took the number keys 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0 buttons from my 6gv2 to put it onto my das...because when i play sc2 i get mixed up where are the numbers and stuff like that :x

IMO i love mx cherry browns the most. blues are annoying. blacks make my fingers get fatigue.. also scared of carpal tunnel symdrone :X


lol now you have me spooked on blacks or even the clears possibly. Both are the only options in the Deck. Maybe I should go with not getting lighting again and just grab the Das or one of the Filco ones.


----------



## Tech-Boy

I am strongly considering getting a Das Ultimate. I just can't decide between Brown or Blue. I type more than I game and I want to become a faster typer. But my brothers in my house might complain at night.

What you guys think? Will I loose much speed/fun by going brown over blue?


----------



## Polarity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tech-Boy;13873355*
> I am strongly considering getting a Das Ultimate. I just can't decide between Brown or Blue. I type more than I game and I want to become a faster typer. But my brothers in my house might complain at night.
> 
> What you guys think? Will I loose much speed/fun by going brown over blue?


not at all ... i switched over to browns from blacks. the only reason why i didnt get blues because of the noise it brings. and facts shows that browns require less force to activate....and blues also have a myth on double tapping(something with the reset thing and the action being close together or the other way around idk..) browns are very light and i like the way they sound :X when u type fast in blues sounds like a machine gun...blacks are quiet as hell and my fingers gets fatigue...i cannot stress on that i didnt realize it for the first 5 months; i had my 6gv2 but now its just crazy switching to browns my fingers feel much better

das if u dont have the money to spend on filco. or if u just dont like glossy at all

filco is really good if i get another mechanical keyboard i will def get a filco

but it also feels like im paying for name brand cuz they are both mx cherry browns lol so look forward to that


----------



## Tator Tot

The Deck Keyboards are built better than the Filco's the cost isn't much higher either (compared to what Filco's cost now.)

@Tech-Boy,
I would get an MX-Blue board.


----------



## RedCloudFuneral

I don't understand why blues get such a bad rep for gaming. Its easier to float at the point where it activates and resets because there is a catch right above it. Its much better than the reds I had for gaming.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RedCloudFuneral;13875208*
> I don't understand why blues get such a bad rep for gaming. Its easier to float at the point where it activates and resets because there is a catch right above it. Its much better than the reds I had for gaming.


I'm a fan of heavier switches, so if you have something like a Clear or Brown the switch nessles into place right before the actuation point, but the increase in force required to actuate the switch does not feel as great as that of a blue.

Still though, switches are mostly about personal preference.


----------



## slytown

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flyinion;13873005*
> lol now you have me spooked on blacks or even the clears possibly. Both are the only options in the Deck. Maybe I should go with not getting lighting again and just grab the Das or one of the Filco ones.


If you play FPS, I would go with the blacks. They don't have the tactile bump, so you can double tap much faster, and the release point is at the same spot as the actuation point. Also, the stiffness lets you know whether you hit the right key or not.

Honestly, any mechanical will feel better than rubber domes, but u really can't know what u'd prefer between the mechanicals till u've tried them all. I would just go with the suggested blacks.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tech-Boy;13873355*
> I am strongly considering getting a Das Ultimate. I just can't decide between Brown or Blue. I type more than I game and I want to become a faster typer. But my brothers in my house might complain at night.
> 
> What you guys think? Will I loose much speed/fun by going brown over blue?


Blues, Topres, White Alps, or Buckling Springs. Blues are the most prevalent. Blues are actually suggested for MMOs because ur all over the keyboard. RTS can be like that as well, but some RTS also requires double tapping, so many opt for Browns for those games.


----------



## Scrappy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slytown;13877377*
> If you play FPS, I would go with the blacks. They don't have the tactile bump, so you can double tap much faster, and the release point is at the same spot as the actuation point. Also, the stiffness lets you know whether you hit the right key or not.
> 
> Honestly, any mechanical will feel better than rubber domes, but u really can't know what u'd prefer between the mechanicals till u've tried them all. I would just go with the suggested blacks.


Blacks are miserable to type on though.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrappy;13877392*
> Blacks are miserable to type on though.


Well for most. Some people prefer blacks for typing over any other Cherry switch. I personally don't mind typing on them at all.


----------



## flyinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slytown;13877377*
> If you play FPS, I would go with the blacks. They don't have the tactile bump, so you can double tap much faster, and the release point is at the same spot as the actuation point. Also, the stiffness lets you know whether you hit the right key or not.
> 
> Honestly, any mechanical will feel better than rubber domes, but u really can't know what u'd prefer between the mechanicals till u've tried them all. I would just go with the suggested blacks.


As far as my gaming it's probably 75-80% or more MMO and the rest is FPS and/or flightsims (which I use my Saitek x52 for the flightsim stuff). It's kind of sounding like I should be looking at browns, or I guess in the case of Deck, the clears since they don't use browns. The only thing that concerns me with the black switches is the fatigue comments.


----------



## Zhuni

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flyinion;13877925*
> As far as my gaming it's probably 75-80% or more MMO and the rest is FPS and/or flightsims (which I use my Saitek x52 for the flightsim stuff). It's kind of sounding like I should be looking at browns, or I guess in the case of Deck, the clears since they don't use browns. The only thing that concerns me with the black switches is the fatigue comments.


I'd go for browns. I played CS for years on blacks and switching to browns was a revelation. No difference in performance but browns just felt easier and more comfortable, my pinky was grateful







. Plus browns are a far better typing switch as well for me.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *flyinion*


As far as my gaming it's probably 75-80% or more MMO and the rest is FPS and/or flightsims (which I use my Saitek x52 for the flightsim stuff). It's kind of sounding like I should be looking at browns, or I guess in the case of Deck, the clears since they don't use browns. The only thing that concerns me with the black switches is the fatigue comments.


If you're moving from a rubber dome then Clear's won't feel like a huge change in terms of the force needed to press them. Blacks will feel that way for a bit, but depending on finger strength; you may move past it.

I don't get fatigued on Blacks at all. I just keep typing away.

Still though, my personal switch of choice is the Clears


----------



## slytown

Just got my Ducky Brown keyboard today. So good.


----------



## ciemnika

I'd like to come in with an endorsement of the Razer Black Widow Ultimate. While likely not as nice as Das and Deck and a few of the others, the BWU is an awesome keyboard. It's easy to use, has a few macro keys and generous backlighting.

I've had excellent experiences with Razer's support service in the past as well and feel confident that if I ever needed their assistance with this keyboard, they'd be quick to make things right.

Setup on the keyboard is easy, and a powered USB 2.0 port on the keyboard is awesome. The audio connections are, predictably, crap, so I can't suggest using them, but that's such a small fraction of what the keyboard is designed to do.

I find the MX Cherry Blue switches great for the gaming I do, which is predominantly RPG and also awesome for typing.


----------



## ripster

Just don't post that in any of the Razer Hater threads.

And there are a LOT of them here.


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ciemnika*


I'd like to come in with an endorsement of the Razer Black Widow Ultimate. While likely not as nice as Das and Deck and a few of the others, the BWU is an awesome keyboard. It's easy to use, has a few macro keys and generous backlighting.

I've had excellent experiences with Razer's support service in the past as well and feel confident that if I ever needed their assistance with this keyboard, they'd be quick to make things right.

Setup on the keyboard is easy, and a powered USB 2.0 port on the keyboard is awesome. The audio connections are, predictably, crap, so I can't suggest using them, but that's such a small fraction of what the keyboard is designed to do.

I find the MX Cherry Blue switches great for the gaming I do, which is predominantly RPG and also awesome for typing.


People like to hate razer but I have never had a problem with them. My deathadder from 2007 is still going strong without any problems. A lot of people don't know how to treat things and that is why they keep breaking on them.

Glad you are enjoying the mechanical switches. Anything is better than rubber domes ( except foam, foam is pretty terrible) IMO.


----------



## ciemnika

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Just don't post that in any of the Razer Hater threads.

And there are a LOT of them here.


Drinking the haterade is for trolls. It's stupid categorically. No company out there makes all great stuff all the time, but to act like that because a company is part of the mass-market or the mainstream or whatever, it's less valid just shows ignorance.

I'd sooner go without sound than use Razer's sound products, but their input devices are good for the most part and their service and support is top-notch.


----------



## v1ral

Is a Supermac a mechanical keyboard, I can't find anything on it.
Model number is:Model# ACK-310


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v1ral;13887383*
> Is a Supermac a mechanical keyboard, I can't find anything on it.
> Model number is:Model# ACK-310


I doubt it, Adesso had a keyboard called the ACK-310 and it was just a scissor switch keyboard.


----------



## v1ral

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13887452*
> I doubt it, Adesso had a keyboard called the ACK-310 and it was just a scissor switch keyboard.


Really..
I know a guy that has some old school boards..
Adesso goes that far back?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v1ral;13887473*
> Really..
> I know a guy that has some old school boards..
> Adesso goes that far back?


It might not be the same product, do you have a link?

Adesso has been around since 1994


----------



## ch_123

@Tator Tot: Could you credit Qwerter's Clinic for the buckling spring GIF in the guide?


----------



## KipH

quieter Type-S Happy Hacking Keyboard for overachieving typists Blue and white? Ok, but not for me.


----------



## ch_123

IIRC, the white HHKBs have always been that way.










Yup.

I assume black versions will be available too.


----------



## ripster

I hate it when photographers can't get their white balance correct.

Please see my pics in the OP for how it should be done.

Wow, you have to scroll up 1226 pages to get to the OP.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;13905341*
> @Tator Tot: Could you credit Qwerter's Clinic for the buckling spring GIF in the guide?


I'll do so now.


----------



## ch_123

Excellent.

The Japanese masters must be appropriately deified.


----------



## ripster

I don't claim to be the number One Keyboard Expert On The Planet when you include the Japanese, especially Sandy55.

English speaking world most def.


----------



## Tator Tot

Webwit would probably argue with that.


----------



## ripster

He speaks Dutch. Doesn't count.

Maybe 1% of the world's population speak Dutch if you include Indonesia.


----------



## Tator Tot

Dunno, the dutch get some beast tea, and I do love my tea.


----------



## Dannibal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Well a few things first: 
No switches are actually _designed_ for gaming. Some consider Black's better for gaming because there is no tactility (so when you push it half way down, the switch registers it being pressed without you feeling anything.)

Deck Keyboards are some of the best you can get. 
For the clears, you've got that mostly right. Though they feel "more" tactile because of the heavier weight (but the only difference really is just the spring.

They feel slightly lighter than Blacks though (as the spring is only 55G not 60G)

The best way to put in what a black feels like is you take a clicky pen and take out the part that makes it click. It's just a strait push down on every switch with no feeling besides pure resistance. 
Many folks like them for this reason, as it makes them feel "heavy duty" or more durrable than the other MX-Switches (which is slightly true since they are rated at 50 Million Actuation vs the 20 & 30 million of the MX Blues and MX Browns/Clears respectively.)

A Tactile switch is like the animated pictures you see in the OP: about half way down, when the switch is being pressed down, you have a short increase in resistance (that makes the switches about 10G heavier) and thus offer a greater resistance for a short period to let you know the switch has activated.


Clears are crisper than browns. The tactility is closer to when the switch activates and less mushy. It's not perfectly exact as a buckling spring (let's be honest, all tactile and clicky cherry switches are just linear switches that were jerry-rigged in the 80s to emulate the feel of buckling springs) but the switch is not the same as a brown. The plastic shape is different. Granted them being a silent but tactile Cherry microswitch makes them much closer to Browns than anything else but they are not just a stiffer version of the browns just like Cherry Reds are not simply browns with the tactility taken out. This is why attempts to make "ghetto Clears/Reds" (they are relatively rare switch types) by sticking stiffer springs in browns /lighter ones in Blacks have a remarkably different feel from actual Clears/Reds.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dannibal*


Clears are crisper than browns. The tactility is closer to when the switch activates and less mushy. It's not perfectly exact as a buckling spring (let's be honest, all tactile and clicky cherry switches are just linear switches that were jerry-rigged in the 80s to emulate the feel of buckling springs) but the switch is not the same as a brown. The plastic shape is different. Granted them being a silent but tactile Cherry microswitch makes them much closer to Browns than anything else but they are not just a stiffer version of the browns just like Cherry Reds are not simply browns with the tactility taken out.


From disassembly pictures on GeekHack, the difference between a brown and a clear is just the spring. The top half is still the same.


----------



## Dannibal

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


From disassembly pictures on GeekHack, the difference between a brown and a clear is just the spring. The top half is still the same.


They're not. Look closer at the shape of indentations on the actuating tab that cause the tactile feel. They're different; the browns have a little curve that results in the trademark mushiness and the cherrys have a more concave, pronounced one that leads to the crispness. Also, the actuating tab juts out a bit more on clears.

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?tit...hes+and+boards


----------



## ripster

Nice pics in that link!


----------



## Trinnd

So many choices... It's so hard to decide.

I spend about 50% of my time on the computer playing wow(a lot of typing here) 20 playing other games and 30 working for my dad or school work ( a lot of typing ). Not including forum/Internet browsing, that is.

I really like the deck and das. Is there any other options worth looking at ? I have mild psoriatic arthritis, so blacks are out of the question. Clears look a little much for me, but I could probably deal with them, browns look like a good middle bur I was thinking because of my psoritiatic arthritis and working / typing a lot in wow blues wouldn't be bad either. I also don't want my wow key binds to become useless, and to be worse at fps games, however. Backlight is nice but not necessary at all because my desk has a nice 2 foot bar light with different brightness levels 3 feet above it.

Opinions on a good keyboard and/or type of switch? Any sort of help would be greatly appreciated and I hope to switch to the mechs soon









I figured it'd be best to post in here rather than make another which keyboard is right for me thread









Thanks in advance <3


----------



## Tator Tot

Do you have any big electronics stores in towns?

With the Razer Blackwidow at retail outlets, you can try blues. They do not feel as heavy as the specs make it seem.

If you're typing a lot, blues may be a great option for you. On the other hand, you may hate them.

Are you specifically looking for any features?


----------



## Trinnd

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Do you have any big electronics stores in towns?

With the Razer Blackwidow at retail outlets, you can try blues. They do not feel as heavy as the specs make it seem.

If you're typing a lot, blues may be a great option for you. On the other hand, you may hate them.

Are you specifically looking for any features?



Yes, I've got a best buy 20 mins away. That's a great idea, I'll try out the blues in store and if I like em I'll grab a board with blues off newegg or something. If not I'll try brown or clears. And I am typing a fair amount. As for features, not really other than something that wont make my wrists fall off while being able to type and play mmos well and fps' decent.


----------



## Tator Tot

Well proper positioning of the keyboard it self, and your monitor help as well. So keep that in mind (as a new desk may be in order if your wrists/arms really do hurt.)

Though, yes, a Razer Blackwidow or Ultimate could be a good option for you, at least to try. It's cheap with plenty of features. Though the build quality (at least in my opinion, and I did own one) is not up to snuff of the Ducky, Leopold, Filco, Deck, and Unicomp keyboards.


----------



## webwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13912326*
> I don't claim to be the number One Keyboard Expert On The Planet when you include the Japanese, especially Sandy55.
> 
> English speaking world most def.


I once bought a backup DataHand, located in the US, and offered ripster to ship through him so he could try it out. I was being nice, who wouldn't want to try it out? But he declined the offer, because the DataHand scared him (!). His old brain couldn't cope with it, it can only cope with classic staggered keyboards.

There is your number one keyboard expert...


----------



## ripster

How about "#1 Keyboard Expert For Normal Keyboards?".

And Qwerty. I know nothing about alternative layouts but the kid across the street is named Cormack and I always think Colemak when I hear his mom yell for him.


----------



## csm725

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;13917130*
> How about "#1 Keyboard Expert For Normal Keyboards?".
> 
> And Qwerty. I know nothing about alternative layouts but the kid across the street is named Cormack and I always think Colemak when I hear his mom yell for him.











Anyways, I wanna replace my Poker's ugly keycaps.


----------



## ripster

I haven't followed all 1228 pages of this thread to check it but if nobody has mentioned it yet the PBT OCN Ducky keyset spacebar will fit the Poker.

Not so sure about the other keys.

They also call me the #1 Keycap Expert on the Planet. I just wished they used the watermarked versions of my pics in the OP.


----------



## Akusho

I've had 2 expensive Logitech keyboards and both of them had sticky keys (when a key suddenly gets stuck for a millisecond and ruins your typing). I have a choice between SteelSeries 6gv2 and Razer BlackWidow, both of them equal in the terms of price, but different switches.
Which switch is better for day-to-day use, chatting, gaming etc?


----------



## Scrappy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Akusho;13949578*
> I've had 2 expensive Logitech keyboards and both of them had sticky keys (when a key suddenly gets stuck for a millisecond and ruins your typing). I have a choice between SteelSeries 6gv2 and Razer BlackWidow, both of them equal in the terms of price, but different switches.
> Which switch is better for day-to-day use, chatting, gaming etc?


Both are good brown is more suggested as an intro switch.


----------



## Akusho

I have only these two in my country, and I dont want to buy international


----------



## Scrappy

It depends on you but between black and blue I would go blue, they really only get in the way if you double tap a lot and more people don't.


----------



## Akusho

What could be the problem with double tapping?


----------



## Scrappy

If you look at the animation of blue you see the second moving part? It doesn't reset until the key is almost at the top so you can't bounce around the activation point.


----------



## Akusho

I haven't really been in a situation, AFAIR, when i had to double tap THAT fast, as in not let the key go back up..


----------



## Scrappy

Then blues are probably the best, most people don't like typing on a black switch.
So the razer.


----------



## Akusho

Thanks!


----------



## Akusho

Although... is the SteelSeries much more uncomfortable to type on a regular membrane keyboard or the razer, are the keys harder to press than membrane?? Razer's glossy plastic... kinda meh.


----------



## Scrappy

Black switches are tougher to push and have a longer travel distance, some people like them but I couldn't stand typing on them.


----------



## Akusho

But if compared to regular keyboards?


----------



## Scrappy

That's what the last post was comparing too, I think they might be a little easier to press technically but the long travel distance makes it worse.


----------



## Akusho

Damn... back to razer then







I'll have to figure out some kind of cover for the keyboard so it wont get so dusty when not used.


----------



## Scrappy

The plastic that comes with it works well.


----------



## Garyx24

Got my first mechanical keyboard today, the razer black widow ultimate. I just needa get used to the loudness of it lol


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Garyx24;13956897*
> Got my first mechanical keyboard today, the razer black widow ultimate. I just needa get used to the loudness of it lol


I should be getting mine at my work tomorrow. I'm going to annoy the hell out of my co-workers with that thing lol.


----------



## Garyx24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster;13957014*
> I should be getting mine at my work tomorrow. I'm going to annoy the hell out of my co-workers with that thing lol.


haha they should get used to it after a while


----------



## Tator Tot

I suggest starting with a nice high end board; like an old IBM Model M or Unicomp if you really want a "different" experience.

On the other hand, if you want something a bit quieter and maybe a tad more fancy; a Deck with MX-Clears or a Topre board would also be solid options.

While I started with the IBM Model M (technically) my first purchase for a Mechanical was the Filco. Though, moving up to the Deck and it's MX Clears I've felt very at home.

Though my switch experience is fairly limited to Monterey's, a few Alps, Acer's, the Cherry MX Profile, and Buckling Springs.

Though I've yet to see a dissatisfied Topre customer.

EDIT: And yes, I do like my Deck more than my Ducky; only because my Deck has (in my opinion) the better option of Cherry tactile switches.


----------



## ChoboGuy

"If you want a rock solid backlit that is aesthetically challenged you can go for http://www.deckkeyboards.com/" - a member at geekhack

^ A statement that I wholeheartedly agree with


----------



## Tator Tot

Most people complain about the font on the Deck boards but I really don't mind it (I don't know why most do either.)

The thing is built to last WW3, their warranty & support services are top notch; to top it off, they are the only ones to offer MX-Clear switches still.


----------



## ChoboGuy

I'm personally not a fan of the crayon-scribbled font, but hey, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I don't question Deck's build quality or anything, but aesthetics plays a major contributing factor in my purchases.


----------



## Tator Tot

I feel as though, when you're complaining about the font of a keyboard (not the printing or keycap material, but just the font) you're at the level of nit-picking.

While the font is not sophisticated (personally I like the standards of Arial and Times New Roman) but it doesn't effect any attribute of the keyboard in a significant way.

For that matter, no one has ever looked at my Deck and gone "oh that font just turns me off."
Most of the time the reaction is "That's a slick looking keyboard, where did you get it?" or if I let them type on it "Wow...that's springy. I feels nice!"


----------



## RallyMaster

The Deck certainly has interesting looking font. I wouldn't really care because I rarely ever look down at my keyboard when I type. It's going to be the same thing when I get my second Razer Blackwidow regular tomorrow (returned the first one because I was dumb). I'll spend most of the time just adjusting to mechanical keys again.


----------



## Tator Tot

I complain about the Razer in regards to the build and the lack of NKRO (even though other models in the same price bracket offer the same features, build quality, and warranty but with NKRO.)

I'd never complain about the font used. Though I do accept when some folks complain that they went a bit odd and some letters are in caps and others in lower case. Though such a thing wouldn't turn me off a keyboard.


----------



## ChoboGuy

I think that the design of something is a very significant attribute. If I'm going to drop $100-$150 on a keyboard I'm going to want something that is aesthetically pleasing to my eyes. I'm sure many other people feel the same way as well.


----------



## Paradox me

How is the Adesso MKB-125B? I see the guide lists it as having lesser build quality, but it's about the only modern mechanical keyboard that fits my budget right now (though I don't wanna waste my money).

Unless I'm missing a better keyboard for ~$70?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Paradox me*


How is the Adesso MKB-125B? I see the guide lists it as having lesser build quality, but it's about the only modern mechanical keyboard that fits my budget right now (though I don't wanna waste my money).

Unless I'm missing a better keyboard for ~$70?


There's some bad soldering, and it's only 2KRO, plastic is also rather cheap.

I haven't personally used it, but it's a "you get what you pay for" kinda experience. If you want a board of better quality (and better switches of the same style) IBM Model M / Unicomp boards would be better options.

For $77 the Addesso MKB-135B is a better option as the build is a bit better but it has more features and has NKRO.

There's also the iOne Scorpius M10 which is built the same as the MKB-135B (and Razer's Black Widow series) as iOne is the OEM for all of them, but it's cheaper, though it too lacks NKRO (only 2KRO.)

They're not the worst options on the market, but in terms of feel; the DK9000 Series from Ducky, the Filco boards, and Leopold boards all do feel (and with the blues) sound better.

If you want a cherry board, I suggest saving up about $120-130 to get Leopold or Ducky.

If you just want a great all around mechanical keyboard, get a Unicomp Customizer 104 for $79 + Shipping.


----------



## Paradox me

Thanks! I suppose if I'm gonna be spending the money it'd be worth it to save a bit extra.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Paradox me*


Thanks! I suppose if I'm gonna be spending the money it'd be worth it to save a bit extra.


I don't mind the MKB-135B (as I own it) but Filco's, Leopolds, or Ducky's all are nicer boards in tangible (feel & sound) ways as well as just overall appearance.


----------



## Paradox me

One last question. I've come across a handful of Noppoo keyboards on eBay, and aside from one review here on OCN I've seen next to nothing about them.

Any idea if they're worth considering at that price range, or should I stick to those brand you've already listed?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradox me;13960401*
> One last question. I've come across a handful of Noppoo keyboards on eBay, and aside from one review here on OCN I've seen next to nothing about them.
> 
> Any idea if they're worth considering at that price range, or should I stick to those brand you've already listed?


I haven't used one, but I plan to pick up one.

The keycaps seem to be rather bland but most people like them. They are solid tenkeyless boards though.
NKRO over USB but they don't play well with OSX

On the other hand, there is the KBC Poker (should be the same price) and some folks like it more and it's a solid option too.


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Garyx24*


Got my first mechanical keyboard today, the razer black widow ultimate. I just needa get used to the loudness of it lol


Heh, I was about to snag one of those myself!

Shame my rig is incompatible with it.


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *frickfrock99*


Heh, I was about to snag one of those myself!

Shame my rig is incompatible with it.


Incompatible...with USB?


----------



## magna224

I liked the noppoo the only bad thing i have to say about it is the backspace key is a bit rattley.


----------



## AgentHydra

Anyone know anything about this keyboard? (Unicomp U2B04A2).

I really like the compact layout but I'm not sure if its actually mechanical or not.


----------



## ripster

Review here.


----------



## Paradox me

A guy from work gave me two Apple Design Keyboards and a 1989 Apple Extended Keyboard II today. Would either be worth hunting down an ADB adapter for?


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Paradox me*


A guy from work gave me two Apple Design Keyboards and a 1989 Apple Extended Keyboard II today. Would either be worth hunting down an ADB adapter for?


The 1989 model could be one of two mechanical(can't find info on Mitsumi switches) keyboards. the M0312 has Alps keyswitches. The M3501 has Mitsumi. What is your label number? I don't know about the Apple Design Keyboards.


----------



## ripster

Not IMHO. This is all that's left of my Apple Extended Keyboard II.

Link.









That and a bunch of rubber dampened sliders.


----------



## Paradox me

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mahimahimahi*


the 1989 model could be one of two mechanical(can't find info on mitsumi switches) keyboards. The m0312 has alps keyswitches. The m3501 has mitsumi. What is your label number? I don't know about the apple design keyboards.


m3501.


----------



## ripster

Now Mitsumis I don't have.









If you get one put some nickels on it per the instructions here.


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Paradox me*


m3501.


Do the rip-o-meter! FOR SCIENCE!


----------



## Tator Tot

Just don't tell Webwit.









EDIT: Or calculate your distance from the Earth's center into the equation.


----------



## Paradox me

Took 16 nickels.

Surprised I had 16 of 'em laying around.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Paradox me*


Took 16 nickels.

Surprised I had 16 of 'em laying around.










Holy smokes, that's roughly 80 Grams! (at Sea level at least.)


----------



## ripster

To be sure take a nickel off the stack and tap the table a bit.

In engineering this is called "dithering".

Webwit doesn't like to dither around.


----------



## Paradox me

It depresses slightly with 15 and wiggling the table a bit, though it doesn't bottom out. No movement whatsoever with 14. Tested it on multiple keys with the same results.

I have no idea how much use this things gotten, been in storage for well over a decade.


----------



## ripster

Thanks, adding it to the Switch Peak Force Database. It's filling out nicely.


----------



## ch_123

Tator Tot: Can the Key Rollover explanation section of the guide be cleaned up, at the moment it's rather misleading and in places just wrong. I'll even throw together something short if you want.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


Tator Tot: Can the Key Rollover explanation section of the guide be cleaned up, at the moment it's rather misleading and in places just wrong. I'll even throw together something short if you want.


I expect to get some work in on the Guide this week. To update multiple section, include more keyboards, etc.

The only section I think I will really _need_ help with is the Keyboard by switch type list. As there are a lot of cherry keyboards; but I'd like to get as much of detailed list as possible.


----------



## webwit

By *cough* "dithering" measurements one could actually increase the inaccuracy while simultaneously introducing a false sense of accuracy. I could explain it to ripster, but when I used high school mathematics before he just ignored it, so I'll let him live in his fantasy world. In some way it's it is a form of art to collect a database of useless data from people who are ignoring that fact.


----------



## De-Zant

What is the reason for companies only manufacturing low force switches?

Even my blacks are too light for my taste.

Give me 110g blues and I'll be happy.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *De-Zant;14026025*
> What is the reason for companies only manufacturing low force switches?
> 
> Even my blacks are too light for my taste.
> 
> Give me 110g blues and I'll be happy.


Find yourself some stiff springs and go crazy.


----------



## De-Zant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;14026225*
> Find yourself some stiff springs and go crazy.


Well technically I currently only have blacks and would require the purchase of a blues board to do that. But I'm going to buy blues anyway at some point.

How much effort would it take to individually replace each spring of each key of my keyboard? And where would I find springs that are stiffer than blacks springs, yet compatible with the cherry switch?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14025782*
> I expect to get some work in on the Guide this week. To update multiple section, include more keyboards, etc.
> 
> The only section I think I will really _need_ help with is the Keyboard by switch type list. As there are a lot of cherry keyboards; but I'd like to get as much of detailed list as possible.


Here's something I put together. May need tweaking, but a good place to start off.

*Ghosting*

Ghosting is a potential issue where certain combinations of three or more keys can cause an additional key to be registered. Ghosting is a rare problem, and is a sign of a serious design flaw in the keyboard.

Many manufacturers misuse the term ghosting to refer to Blocking, or use the term 'anti-ghosting' to refer to a gaming optimized matrix.

*Blocking*

Blocking is when certain combinations of three or more keys result in one or more of the keys not being registered. Rather than being a design problem, blocking is deliberately implemented to prevent ghosting. The combinations of keys that block are dependent on the design of the keyboard.

*Game Optimized Matrix*

This term, and others like it, are used by manufacturers to describe a keyboard whose switching matrix has been designed in such a way to prevent blocking occuring on certain commonly used gaming combinations. It does not eliminate blocking, it merely tries to avoid it. In many instances, it is little more than marketing hype, and does not provide a tangible benefit over a regular keyboard. However, on some keyboards such as the Microsoft Sidewinder X4, the quality of optimiziation means that it is almost as good as a NKRO keyboard for most usage.

*n-Key Rollover*

n-Key Rollover, usually called NKRO, refers to a keyboard that suffers from neither blocking nor ghosting. In a true NKRO keyboard, any number and or combination of keys can be pressed simultaneously, and all will be registered correctly.

*Interface-limited NKRO*

Certain peripheral interfaces such as USB are not designed to support true NKRO. This, a USB NKRO keyboard will not suffer from blocking or ghosting, but is only capable of sending a limited number of keys over the interface at once. Additional keys pressed beyond the limit will generally cause some of the other keys to be dropped. USB is usually limited to 6 regular keys and 4 modifier keys. Some keyboards are able to cheat this limit, but sometimes at the expense of quirky behavior or incompatibility with certain operating systems.

*2KRO, 6KRO and others*

Sometimes, key rollover is measured using a number. This practise is somewhat confusing because it means different things in different contexts. 2KRO is often used to describe a keyboard with blocking, and is meant to be read as "any combination of two keys are guaranteed to work, and some combinations of three or more keys will work, but others will not". 6KRO is often used to describe an interface-limited NKRO keyboard, and is meant to be read as "any combination of up to six keys are guaranteed, but no combinations of seven or more will work".

Some rollover quantities greater than 6, such as 12KRO, 18KRO or 22KRO are used to refer to heavily optimized matrices, or interface-limited NKRO keyboards that have got around the 6 key limit.

*Transposition Errors*

Transposition errors are when a number of keys entered in rapid succession are registered in the wrong order. For example, typing A then B then C, and the keyboard registering ACB or BAC. As with ghosting, this is the result of a design flaw in the controller, and is not considered acceptable failure. These errors have been spotted in certain low quality mechanical keyboards.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *webwit;14025825*
> By *cough* "dithering" measurements one could actually increase the inaccuracy while simultaneously introducing a false sense of accuracy. I could explain it to ripster, but when I used high school mathematics before he just ignored it, so I'll let him live in his fantasy world. In some way it's it is a form of art to collect a database of useless data from people who are ignoring that fact.


Even if the coins were accurate, the weights tell you so little about the switches, even in terms of how tiring they are to use. By Cherry's own official force graphs, the peak force of the Blue Cherry is 60g. Also by Cherry's graphs, the actuation force is 60g. If we were to take the force rating as a meaningful indicator of how stiff the switches are, one might conclude that they are equally tiring to type on. Yet, this is not the case. Ho-hum.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *De-Zant;14026268*
> Well technically I currently only have blacks and would require the purchase of a blues board to do that. But I'm going to buy blues anyway at some point.
> 
> How much effort would it take to individually replace each string of each key of my keyboard? And where would I find springs that are stiffer than blacks springs, yet compatible with the cherry switch?


I think sixty was involved in a group buy of springs at one point, you could see if he knows anything.

I think you have to take the switches out to get to the spring, so it will be a fairly labor intensive process. You'd have to really want to do it.


----------



## De-Zant

I could try the process on keys that I don't use first, such as the ones found in the numpad. ¨

Any guides anyone can link to me explaining how to take apart and reconstruct the cherry switch?


----------



## Crazy9000

Check this article here. Has enough pictures I think you can get the idea.


----------



## De-Zant

Thanks

Seems like something I might do. If only for a couple of keys.


----------



## ripster

It's fun!

And then you can create your own custom versions.


----------



## Ailongam

I want Lime-Green key caps for the ESDF keys...


----------



## csm725

Ask Signature Plastics to make some custom ones.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725;14031391*
> Ask Signature Plastics to make some custom ones.


The pricing does not make a single set something you can think about really. Ordering from SP needs to be in a group buy, preferably with 50 people in on it.


----------



## csm725

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;14036881*
> The pricing does not make a single set something you can think about really. Ordering from SP needs to be in a group buy, preferably with 50 people in on it.


Really? They're pretty cheap.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725;14037091*
> Really? They're pretty cheap.


You must be thinking of their novelty key site, which is completely different. If you want to order a custom keycap from them, you'll want to do a group buy.

For example, a single full set of keyboard keys would be around $700, from the quotes I've seen people get. If you order 10 or so sets, it goes down to $150ish per set. There's an initial cost for them making a run for your keys, and you need to order a bunch for it to make sense.


----------



## csm725

You're right. $135 for 4 green doubleshot keys.


----------



## MahiMahiMahi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ailongam;14031318*
> I want Lime-Green key caps for the ESDF keys...


You can always dye white keys. I think that would be your cheapest option


----------



## ch_123

Unlike custom pad printed/laser engraved/dye sublimated keys, double shot keys require molds to be made for each of the keys. It's completely plausible that their initial production costs for a full set of keys could be in the lower hundreds of dollars.


----------



## Tator Tot

My only issue with Sig plastics is the keycaps are very thin. Not that I'm worried about durrability, but the sound compared to the Daitec/Filco/Das/Ducky/Rosewill keycaps is louder and sharper.
Something, I'm sure most people, don't want.


----------



## csm725

*Diatec
Also really? I didn't notice any difference.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725;14039208*
> *Diatec
> Also really? I didn't notice any difference.


Ripster's got plenty of pictures that show it. The sound difference isn't huge but I can tell.

Thicker keycaps usually give a better sound, but obviously, cost more.


----------



## csm725

Interesting to see if I'll notice with my Poker. I wish I could afford the Filco Ninja although the QC I've heard is not the best.


----------



## v1ral

Any word on the new batches of the ocn Ducky's?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v1ral;14039545*
> Any word on the new batches of the ocn Ducky's?


They shipped out on the 26th of June.

Once I can update more on it, I will.


----------



## Crazy9000

Here's a pic showing the signature plastics thickness. Topre is top, bottom left is SP, bottom right is a double shot Cherry ESC key. I think you can guess who I stole the pic from







.


----------



## webwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;14040162*
> Here's a pic showing the signature plastics thickness. Topre is top, bottom left is SP, bottom right is a double shot Cherry ESC key. I think you can guess who I stole the pic from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Who?


----------



## Crazy9000

Ripster posted it in another thread, it had his huge watermark. Not sure why he removed it.

(edit) NVM you just took it out and put that one in the quote also







.


----------



## csm725

^Hahahah. Successful troll is successful.


----------



## ripster

So THAT's what happened to my pics in the OP.

BTW can you rotate the ALPS one 180 degree so I don't have to turn my labtop 180 deg to read "ALPS".

Cracked me up when Toms Hardware didn't bother to rotate it either.


----------



## Akusho

Is Cherry G80-3000 brown worth buying? how is its key rollover?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Akusho*


Is Cherry G80-3000 brown worth buying? how is its key rollover?


It's a decent board, not really anything special.

It's NKRO with the PS/2 models. Standard Key Roll over with USB (6+4)


----------



## ch_123

Do _all_ PS/2 G80-3000s have NKRO?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;14085854*
> Do _all_ PS/2 G80-3000s have NKRO?


As far as I know. All the ones listed on the Cherry website (Brown and Blue) have NKRO (or 6+4 for USB models) listed.


----------



## ripster

Don't think so.
Quote:


> QWAS and so does QWEASD fails


And a bunch more. I think it has a Unicomp/windowskey type matrix.

Source.


----------



## Tator Tot

Well I wouldn't doubt that info; after all, Cherry still says on the product page of the G80-3000 Blue that the MX-Blue switches are rated at 50 Mil ops.


----------



## JedimindhaX

Hey,

I currently own a G15, but as im currently trying to build an ideal gaming setup, im thinking about getting another keyboard. A better keyboard. First off: the g15 has sculpted keys, right? Kinda non-glossyish keys or smt; are keys on most keyboards like the ones on the g15?

Well, regardless, what im looking for is this:

-backlit
-nkro
-maximum price $150. Ideally no more than a 100. I feel kinda silly already spending this much on a keyboard, but i figured since im saving on the cost of a new 120hz monitor by getting a crt, and seeing as i want my setup to be perfect, i figured i should get a proper mechanical one ^^

Anyone got any recommendations?


----------



## ChoboGuy

^ Which switches interest you? If you had no prior knowledge of Cherry MX switches, the best place to start would be here.

People love blacks for gaming. Mionix is very highly regarded for their mice and I would expect their upcoming backlit MX black board (Zibal 60) to be good so you could wait for that to release. You could also check out Deck boards which are rock solid although I'm personally not a fan of how they look.

The blackwidow seems like a viable option if you want a MX Blue board, although many people have reported quality issues. I think it's pretty much a no-brainer to stay away from XArmor as their brand has been discontinued due to EXTREMELY poor quality control. The only other backlit that I know of (I think that's pretty much it for backlit mech kb's in the market as if now) is the Ducky 9008 "Shine" which AFAIK is not available yet.


----------



## JedimindhaX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ChoboGuy*


^ Which switches interest you? If you had no prior knowledge of Cherry MX switches, the best place to start would be here.

People love blacks for gaming. Mionix is very highly regarded for their mice and I would expect their upcoming backlit MX black board (Zibal 60) to be good so you could wait for that to release. You could also check out Deck boards which are rock solid although I'm personally not a fan of how they look.

The blackwidow seems like a viable option if you want a MX Blue board, although many people have reported quality issues. I think it's pretty much a no-brainer to stay away from XArmor as their brand has been discontinued due to EXTREMELY poor quality control. The only other backlit that I know of (I think that's pretty much it for backlit mech kb's in the market) is the Ducky 9008 "Shine" which AFAIK is not available yet.


Thanks for telling me what to stay away from, hehe. Tho the zibal 60 u recommended; on the official site it says 6KRO, so thats a dealbreaker right there ;x getting NKRO is one of the main reasons for me to want to make the switch to mechanical







tbh im not too well versed on everything yet, so yeah, ill do some reading now ^^ only globally read most of it b4, so. And yeah, i dont like the look of those deck keyboards either, hehe.


----------



## ChoboGuy

You'll need a PS/2 adapter if you want full n-key rollover on your mech kb.


----------



## RedCloudFuneral

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ChoboGuy*


You'll need a PS/2 adapter if you want full n-key rollover on your mech kb.


Not true, there are a few that have managed full NRKO over USB. My Ducky YOTT board is one of them. The noppoo choc mini is another.


----------



## JedimindhaX

Yeah, i know, ill get one of those, np ^^ but zibal 60 is nkro with ps/2 then? Cause it looks pretty amazing at least. Love the green.


----------



## magna224

I think the deck looks nice.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...yboard0005.jpg


----------



## v1ral

any word on the new batch of ocn ducky's?
I am waiting for them so I can pull the trigger.


----------



## ChoboGuy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RedCloudFuneral*


Not true, there are a few that have managed full NRKO over USB. My Ducky YOTT board is one of them. The noppoo choc mini is another.


You're correct but he wants a backlit mech kb (none of which in the market comes with NRKO over USB).

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JedimindhaX*


Yeah, i know, ill get one of those, np ^^ but zibal 60 is nkro with ps/2 then? Cause it looks pretty amazing at least. Love the green.


After googling I found that the Zibal 60 uses more than one USB so I do not think you will be able to use a PS/2 adapter for NRKO.


----------



## JedimindhaX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ChoboGuy*


You're correct but he wants a backlit mech kb (none of which in the market comes with NRKO over USB).

After googling I found that the Zibal 60 uses more than one USB so I do not think you will be able to use a PS/2 adapter for NRKO.


Hmm, ok. So not the zibal 60 then. Moving on







hmm


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v1ral;14095509*
> any word on the new batch of ocn ducky's?
> I am waiting for them so I can pull the trigger.


They shipped out at the end of June; but until they hit customs I can't really give any good ETA's on it.

Right now all of the boards available are still solid products and if you do run into any issues, just shoot me a PM and I'll take care of you.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JedimindhaX;14095595*
> Hmm, ok. So not the zibal 60 then. Moving on
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmm


It'll be awhile, but we'll be offering a backlit version of our Ducky keyboards hopefully before the holiday season in Winter.

Other than that; my suggestion would be the XArmor U9BL-S with brown switches. It's not that different than normal boards, but nice for most users and fits into your needs well.








The Moinix board is the same though, made by iOne (XArmor's parent company) and is just green instead of blue in the backlighting.


----------



## Smallville

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JedimindhaX;14094971*
> Hey,
> 
> I currently own a G15, but as im currently trying to build an ideal gaming setup, im thinking about getting another keyboard. A better keyboard. First off: the g15 has sculpted keys, right? Kinda non-glossyish keys or smt; are keys on most keyboards like the ones on the g15?
> 
> Well, regardless, what im looking for is this:
> 
> -backlit
> -nkro
> -maximum price $150. Ideally no more than a 100. I feel kinda silly already spending this much on a keyboard, but i figured since im saving on the cost of a new 120hz monitor by getting a crt, and seeing as i want my setup to be perfect, i figured i should get a proper mechanical one ^^
> 
> Anyone got any recommendations?


6KRO is enough for most gamers. That means you would need to be using 6 out of your 10 fingers pressing down a key before the next keystroke would be ignored. I hope that doesn't sound mean, but I just wanted to make sure you knew what NKRO was. I honestly have no idea what game needs more than 6 keys pressed at once.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smallville;14098201*
> 6KRO is enough for most gamers. That means you would need to be using 6 out of your 10 fingers pressing down a key before the next keystroke would be ignored. I hope that doesn't sound mean, but I just wanted to make sure you knew what NKRO was. I honestly have no idea what game needs more than 6 keys pressed at once.


I need it occasionally in a game that uses both hands on the keyboard. If you only have one hand on the keyboard, you only have 5 fingers to press keys, so it would be hard to run into trouble with USB.


----------



## Akusho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14087326*
> As far as I know. All the ones listed on the Cherry website (Brown and Blue) have NKRO (or 6+4 for USB models) listed.


What does 6+4 mean? Also, if I take the USB version and connect in to PS/2, will i have NKRO?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Akusho;14099105*
> What does 6+4 mean? Also, if I take the USB version and connect in to PS/2, will i have NKRO?


As Ripster pointed out, not all of them have NKRO. Some are using the IBM Model M matrix which is only 2KRO but it can game pretty well.

If it is NKRO then on USB you can hit 6 normal keys and 4 modifiers (that's what 6+4 means.)

Shift, Alt, CTRL, etc are modifiers.

Letters & numbers are "normal" keys (same with Tab, Caps, Enter, & Backspace.)


----------



## Akusho

All of who? G80s? I'm buying it new, still could come with Model M matrix?


----------



## Tator Tot

Well, the G80-3000 boards. Reviews on Geekhack show that the 3 tested are just 2KRO.

I'd suggest looking for another board unless the seller can confirm NKRO.


----------



## Akusho

I have only 3 options - Razer BlackWidow, SS 6gv2 and Cherry G80-3000 Brown. I prefer the browns because they are less noisy from what I've heard. The problem is 2KRO, will this hurt me in terms of games? It means I'll be able to push only 2 keys simultaneously right(including ctrl alt etc)? I think that could be a problem


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Akusho*


I have only 3 options - Razer BlackWidow, SS 6gv2 and Cherry G80-3000 Brown. I prefer the browns because they are less noisy from what I've heard. The problem is 2KRO, will this hurt me in terms of games? It means I'll be able to push only 2 keys simultaneously right(including ctrl alt etc)? I think that could be a problem










What about the Overclock.net boards? They're fairly inexpensive.

2KRO just means that is the minimum number of combinations that you can click. That means that pressing the keys 'QWRT' at the same time could be possible (which would make it a 4KRO board, but "QAZ" might not be.

I can't mention a board where Ctrl+Alt+Delete does not work. Even though many average boards are 2KRO.


----------



## Akusho

My Logitech Wave can't do QWRT, but can QAZ








I guess DK 9008-G2 could be ok, 110 is fine with me, but then I have to pay shipping which will be at least 15$, then taxes at customs... which will make it quite expensive









Is Logitech Wave a regular 2KRO keyboard (no gaming optimization)? If it is - then I'm fine with 2KRO, and if Cherry G80-3000 is the same as my Wave I'll buy it.


----------



## JedimindhaX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Smallville*


6KRO is enough for most gamers. That means you would need to be using 6 out of your 10 fingers pressing down a key before the next keystroke would be ignored. I hope that doesn't sound mean, but I just wanted to make sure you knew what NKRO was. I honestly have no idea what game needs more than 6 keys pressed at once.


Yeah, i know what nkro is ^^ 6kro might be enough, but id much rather have nkro. If im gonna spend a lot on a mechanical keyboard i think it should be nkro


----------



## Smallville

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JedimindhaX*


Yeah, i know what nkro is ^^ 6kro might be enough, but id much rather have nkro. If im gonna spend a lot on a mechanical keyboard i think it should be nkro










Just making sure







Anyways, I suggest a Filco Ninja(currently typing on one) because they're very well built and there are a lot of rave reviews about them. It's also NKRO(assuming you have a PS/2 port







)


----------



## JedimindhaX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Smallville*


Just making sure







Anyways, I suggest a Filco Ninja(currently typing on one) because they're very well built and there are a lot of rave reviews about them. It's also NKRO(assuming you have a PS/2 port







)


Yeah, but no backlighting from the looks of it







dealbreaker for me ;x


----------



## JedimindhaX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


They shipped out at the end of June; but until they hit customs I can't really give any good ETA's on it.

Right now all of the boards available are still solid products and if you do run into any issues, just shoot me a PM and I'll take care of you.









It'll be awhile, but we'll be offering a backlit version of our Ducky keyboards hopefully before the holiday season in Winter.

Other than that; my suggestion would be the XArmor U9BL-S with brown switches. It's not that different than normal boards, but nice for most users and fits into your needs well.








The Moinix board is the same though, made by iOne (XArmor's parent company) and is just green instead of blue in the backlighting.


Hmm, guess ill be waiting for those backlit duckys then







seeing as the guy some posts b4 u told me to steer clear of xarmor because of their bad quality control ;x anyway, damn, have to wait till winter then huh ;o think ill open my own topic tho, see if i dont get some more replies, cause ofc not everyone will read my post here ;P


----------



## csm725

Deck?
Zibal?


----------



## JedimindhaX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *csm725*


Deck?
Zibal?


Decks look fairly atrocious, zibal 60 isnt out yet (right?) plus appearantly not really nkro. Or so someone said in this topic earlier. Smt like that. Issues anyway.


----------



## ch_123

Tator Tot: Could do with an explanation of Tactile vs Linear vs Clicky spelt out at the start of the guide.


----------



## v1ral

What will be the best OCN Ducky board for a first time buyer?
I'm poised on the Browns, but just for the sake of "realism" to using a mech. keyboard, maybe Blues.
Gonna pull the trigger as soon as funds start to flow.
Was thinking of a Filco Ninja from Amazon but they're quite costly.


----------



## spacegoast

I am looking to get some replacement keycaps for W,A,S,D and ESC in red for my Filco Majestouch with MX Browns. Where can I find some of these and which keycap puller would I use? The wire styel says "works with Filco" so IM guessing that one. Just want to be sure so I am asking here first.


----------



## 98uk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spacegoast;14109092*
> I am looking to get some replacement keycaps for W,A,S,D and ESC in red for my Filco Majestouch with MX Browns. Where can I find some of these and which keycap puller would I use? The wire styel says "works with Filco" so IM guessing that one. Just want to be sure so I am asking here first.


KeyboardCo. Check my post in the KB section!


----------



## JacobKay97

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spacegoast;14109092*
> I am looking to get some replacement keycaps for W,A,S,D and ESC in red for my Filco Majestouch with MX Browns. Where can I find some of these and which keycap puller would I use? The wire styel says "works with Filco" so IM guessing that one. Just want to be sure so I am asking here first.


For the Key puller; a paperclip bent so its like |_| making sure it fits under 1 key works great, I used a paperclip to take all my keys off as I wanted to clean my Filco.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JedimindhaX;14105981*
> Hmm, guess ill be waiting for those backlit duckys then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> seeing as the guy some posts b4 u told me to steer clear of xarmor because of their bad quality control ;x anyway, damn, have to wait till winter then huh ;o think ill open my own topic tho, see if i dont get some more replies, cause ofc not everyone will read my post here ;P


X-Armor is not that bad, but our Backlit Ducky's will come ASAP.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725;14106014*
> Deck?
> Zibal?


Zibal is the same as X-Armor. Deck is built better, X-Armor U9BL/U9BL-S have more features though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;14106164*
> Tator Tot: Could do with an explanation of Tactile vs Linear vs Clicky spelt out at the start of the guide.


I planned on it actually.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v1ral;14107084*
> What will be the best OCN Ducky board for a first time buyer?
> I'm poised on the Browns, but just for the sake of "realism" to using a mech. keyboard, maybe Blues.
> Gonna pull the trigger as soon as funds start to flow.
> Was thinking of a Filco Ninja from Amazon but they're quite costly.


MX-Blue keyboard will be the biggest difference. MX-Blacks will feel strong and durrable but may wear you out.
Brown's will be pretty basic and the most like domes.


----------



## v1ral

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14109279*
> MX-Blue keyboard will be the biggest difference. MX-Blacks will feel strong and durrable but may wear you out.
> Brown's will be pretty basic and the most like domes.


So the Blues will be the most different, and a good starting point?


----------



## Dizfunky

I ordered the DK 9008-G2 Overclock.net Edition (Cherry MX Brown switches) with ABS Keycaps last Wednesday, and I haven't gotten back any tracking info. How will I know when it has shipped? I ordered 2-day shipping and it hasn't arrived yet.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *v1ral*


So the Blues will be the most different, and a good starting point?


Yeah, most people decide quickly if they like blues or do not; but I suggest you stick with them for at least a little bit to make sure they're what you want.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dizfunky*


I ordered the DK 9008-G2 Overclock.net Edition (Cherry MX Brown switches) with ABS Keycaps last Wednesday, and I haven't gotten back any tracking info. How will I know when it has shipped? I ordered 2-day shipping and it hasn't arrived yet.


Depending on when you ordered on Wednesday it might not have been picked up by FedEx or UPS till Thursday. With the holiday weekend, it'll probably be stuck till today.

If you have a problem, send TankGuys a PM on the forums asking him if there is a delay on shipping and he'll take care of you.


----------



## JedimindhaX

I think ill wait for those backlit ocn duckys then, tator ^^

Btw.. im not rly sure what switches id want, or i mean, which would most suit me

I have a g15 atm, and that feels quite light. Okay, but light. How do blacks/browns & blues compare to those on the g15?

Ps. I play a lot of unreal tournament, so quite a bit of double-tapping going on


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JedimindhaX*


I think ill wait for those backlit ocn duckys then, tator ^^

Btw.. im not rly sure what switches id want, or i mean, which would most suit me

I have a g15 atm, and that feels quite light. Okay, but light. How do blacks/browns & blues compare to those on the g15?

Ps. I play a lot of unreal tournament, so quite a bit of double-tapping going on


Browns are lighter than the G15.


----------



## JedimindhaX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


Browns are lighter than the G15.


And blacks/blues?


----------



## Idra

Does Das Keyboard have good customer service? I always thought they did. It would explain the upscaled price.

I sent them a request for a refund several days ago. For any issue other than refunds, they replied almost instantly.

How long am I supposed to be waiting?


----------



## ChoboGuy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


X-Armor is not that bad, but our Backlit Ducky's will come ASAP.

Zibal is the same as X-Armor. Deck is built better, X-Armor U9BL/U9BL-S have more features though.

I planned on it actually.

MX-Blue keyboard will be the biggest difference. MX-Blacks will feel strong and durrable but may wear you out. 
Brown's will be pretty basic and the most like domes.


When a brand is discontinued due to "the number of manufacturing problems with soldering connections", I would say that's pretty bad.

The blackwidow is also manufactured by iOne, but it's internals share virtually no similarities with the XArmors (even the PCB is different). I do not think that the Zibal is going to be the same as the XArmor.


----------



## spacegoast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *98uk;14109103*
> KeyboardCo. Check my post in the KB section!


I checked that site. I dont want to spend $35 on 5 keys, thanks for the link though.

Anyone else know of any e-tailers in the USA that sells red keycaps for Filco?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChoboGuy;14112427*
> When a brand is discontinued due to "the number of manufacturing problems with soldering connections", I would say that's pretty bad.
> 
> The blackwidow is also manufactured by iOne, but it's internals share virtually no similarities with the XArmors (even the PCB is different). I do not think that the Zibal is going to be the same as the XArmor.


X-Armor never announced why they closed the door; though the main reason is most likely due to cost competition. If multiple partners are gonna sell the same product as you; it's hard to compete (price wise) in the consumer market unless you have an established name.

The Zibal is definitely just another U9BL based board. MX-Black Switches, Moinix branding, and Green backlighting are the only difference.
IF the price is right, that won't be a problem though.

On the other hand, as with any OEM work, a company can cheap out and request less QC and Process Review to get a product out quicker and for less money. Or they can pay for more QC and Process review to get out a better built product.

X-Armor, Moinix, Qpad, Tessoro, & Owltech all sell boards based on the U9BL design. That's not a bad thing (a good thing for the OEM, iOne.) In the consumer's eyes, it's actually a okay-ish move. We get more mech products on the market from bigger companies to hopefully drive prices down but at the same time, we get less market diversity.
Catch 22 there.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spacegoast;14113803*
> I checked that site. I dont want to spend $35 on 5 keys, thanks for the link though.
> 
> Anyone else know of any e-tailers in the USA that sells red keycaps for Filco?


Front page at the bottom of the guide:

Linux Keycaps
Lime-Green Blank WSAD Keycaps (Blank Version)
Lavender WSAD Keycaps
OCN Flame Keycap
Red Escape Key
Click Clack Skull Keycap (available in Blue, Red, & Yellow)
Blank Windows Bubble Keycap
Windows flat keycap
AliXpress has multiple colors in 37key sets
The AliXpress keycaps are slightly different compared to PLU/PLUM/Ducky/DAS/Filco keycaps. They fit perfect though.
The 37 Keys are for your letters and numbers. Shipping is usually pretty quick as well.


----------



## Idra

How good is Das Keyboard's customer service?

Am I expected to pay the shipping if I want to return something? Or are they like Newegg and they pay the shipping?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Idra;14117062*
> How good is Das Keyboard's customer service?
> 
> Am I expected to pay the shipping if I want to return something? Or are they like Newegg and they pay the shipping?


You'll have to pay, that's almost standard for anyone.

It's good though.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChoboGuy;14112427*
> When a brand is discontinued due to "the number of manufacturing problems with soldering connections", I would say that's pretty bad.
> 
> The blackwidow is also manufactured by iOne, but it's internals share virtually no similarities with the XArmors (even the PCB is different). I do not think that the Zibal is going to be the same as the XArmor.


There's no proof that iOne is the OEM for Razer, just speculation.


----------



## Idra

What is a panic button?


----------



## csm725

See my KBC Poker review, it's simply a red key with the word Panic printed on it:


----------



## Idra

So its just a simple key cap to to replace the ESC one?


----------



## csm725

Or any keycap, I chose the Esc.


----------



## JedimindhaX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725;14117876*
> See my KBC Poker review, it's simply a red key with the word Panic printed on it:


That's awesome!







not to be a copycat, but yeah, im so getting that


----------



## csm725

It's fine, I'm used to being copied. Some guy bought clear WASD and Esc caps after he saw that I did.


----------



## DEEBS808

I search of a good mech keyboard.So my question is which one the get?I kind of want a back-lighted one but not sure.

Duck,Das,Filco or Xarmor.?

I am thinking about the Filco.


----------



## jpm804

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DEEBS808;14145020*
> I search of a good mech keyboard.So my question is which one the get?I kind of want a back-lighted one but not sure.
> 
> Duck,Das,Filco or Xarmor.?
> 
> I am thinking about the Filco.


if you really want backlight you will have to rule out the filco and ducky ( for now since i did hear they are going to be putting out a backlight one in the future) and das

your choices would be then Xarmor, Razer black window Ultimate and may want to look at Deck keyboards also. Also maybe zowie a lso is coming out with a backlight keyboards also.


----------



## DEEBS808

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jpm804;14145042*
> if you really want backlight you will have to rule out the filco and ducky ( for now since i did hear they are going to be putting out a backlight one in the future) and das
> 
> your choices would be then Xarmor, Razer black window Ultimate and may want to look at Deck keyboards also. Also maybe zowie a lso is coming out with a backlight keyboards also.


dont really need to be backlight.Just want a really good keyboard for gaming.Read the OP just can't decide.This is my first gaming build and want a good one.Just got my mouse(G9X) so all I need is my keyboard.Thanks


----------



## jpm804

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DEEBS808;14145074*
> dont really need to be backlight.Just want a really good keyboard for gaming.Read the OP just can't decide.This is my first gaming build and want a good one.Just got my mouse(G9X) so all I need is my keyboard.Thanks


okay.... just got my filco and while i cant comment on it for gaming yet, the quality on this thing is awesome.

I know someone who just got the filco paired up with his G9x and says he loves it for gaming...


----------



## DEEBS808

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jpm804;14145132*
> okay.... just got my filco and while i cant comment on it for gaming yet, the quality on this thing is awesome.
> 
> I know someone who just got the filco paired up with his G9x and says he loves it for gaming...


Kool thanks.Looks like Filco it is.


----------



## hicks12

Hello, first i must say that this comprehensive post was excellent and i thank the OP alot for providing a nice section to most of the needed information on mech keyboards.

However im in need of opinions/advice, i currently have a g520 (please dont hate me.... it was £25), only thing i like on it is the screen (i can afford to lose it) and i dont need macro keys since Starcraft 2 its not allowed ingame if a macro key does more than one key (e.g. t+g when you press macro 1) and as thats my main game i dont see the point in having them now.

Preferably i want the following:
Fairly cheap (is this possible? £90 with no wiggle room at all, lower mostly better depending on what it affects)
Backlit keyboard, not a must but if possible id like it
Reliable/long service life- if im paying alot for a keyboard i want it to last a LONG time, atleast 3 solid years of use.

And generally it will be used for gaming (CSS and SC2) and a fair whack of typing since im in uni at the minute and we all know how many reports are required!

I like the steelseries 7g but it is quite expensive and im not sure the mx blacks are right for me, and the razer black widow using mxblues which im not sure is brilliant for gaming but great for typing, havent heard one in person but sound shouldnt be much of an issue the main concern is quality control and durability, it seems a lot of people doubt the quality in the razer whereas the 7g has been said to be solid and one of the best.

Im not sure what i should be going for really, pointers into the right area would be really helpful as i have never had a "good" mechanical keyboard and would like to get my purchase right first time (as its expensive!).


----------



## ch_123

The Das from their European retailer with a student discount may be in your range. I also think you could get a Unicomp Spacesaver with buckling spring switches for under £90, even with shipping from the US factored into the cost.


----------



## Tator Tot

Either or those boards would be solid. The Das keyboard would have (as Ch 123 put) "boring old browns" which are the middle of the road switch that many folks love their first go.


----------



## ch_123

It's mistake time of year again:

In the guide, the Blackwidow is down as being 3KRO.

Also, the Matias Tactile Pro is listed as having full NKRO when connected over PS/2.

>PS/2
>Mac keyboard


----------



## hicks12

Thanks for the quick responses, ive had a look at the das and the only supplier for the UK has it at ~£100. I am quite keen on a longer than 1 year warranty as i find that if anything will die it will be 1 or 1.5Years in its life, 2 years warranty would a preferable amount.

I keep seeing the steelseries 7g as the best one, im just not sure how good it is for typing. Im reading that blacks are fairly quiet but lack any feedback so you cant really get "used" to point so you dont have to keep on bottoming out.

However I have also seen the razer blackwidow (non backlit one) for £66 




To me that is a good price for a mechanical, and correct me if im wrong but mxblue should still be alright for gaming.... better than the crappy dome ones on my g510! Also does anyone have like a video/audio clip showing the difference in noise between a mx black and mxblue switch cause albeit I said noise isnt much of an issue, if its incredibly loud then im sure people on skype will hate me!







.

Its unfortunate that im in the UK as it seems there is ALOT of options for mechanical keyboards in the US







.


----------



## De-Zant

Can I make ghetto keycap pullers out of some paper clippers?


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hicks12;14167509*
> Its unfortunate that im in the UK as it seems there is ALOT of options for mechanical keyboards in the US
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I'm from Ireland. I just get them in from the US. Shipping costs are a pain, but I guess it forces me to be picky


----------



## Tator Tot

Hey now... Matias works perfectly fine on PS/2 if you're using a Hackintosh or using the keyboard on a PC with a PS/2 port (Linux, BSD, Unix, Windows, & Other OS choices are all up to you.)

As for the warranty issues, most companies do not offer a longer than 1 year warranty.


----------



## hicks12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;14167552*
> I'm from Ireland. I just get them in from the US. Shipping costs are a pain, but I guess it forces me to be picky


True but for me if it breaks i dont want the response to be... send back to the US!









As an addition to my previous post, are there any cherry keyboards that use MXblues? i seem to recall Cherry keyboards being extremely solid (almost as good as IBM?) and i see them around £60, if i can pick up a basic cherry with mxblues for <£70 in england i would probably take that as all these keyboards seem to look alike, the best thing about the 7g is that it looks awesome with the wrist rest (imo).


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14167613*
> Hey now... Matias works perfectly fine on PS/2 if you're using a Hackintosh or using the keyboard on a PC with a PS/2 port (Linux, BSD, Unix, Windows, & Other OS choices are all up to you.)
> 
> As for the warranty issues, most companies do not offer a longer than 1 year warranty.


So it works with a USB-PS/2 adapter? Would like to see some sort of documented evidence for this









I believe Unicomp's keyboards come with an 18 month warranty.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hicks12;14167622*
> True but for me if it breaks i dont want the response to be... send back to the US!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As an addition to my previous post, are there any cherry keyboards that use MXblues? i seem to recall Cherry keyboards being extremely solid (almost as good as IBM?) and i see them around £60, if i can pick up a basic cherry with mxblues for <£70 in england i would probably take that as all these keyboards seem to look alike, the best thing about the 7g is that it looks awesome with the wrist rest (imo).


The trick is to buy keyboards that don't break, or ones you can fix yourself









Although, your post reminded me of these. Pretty hard to go wrong with these.


----------



## hicks12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;14167719*
> So it works with a USB-PS/2 adapter? Would like to see some sort of documented evidence for this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe Unicomp's keyboards come with an 18 month warranty.
> 
> The trick is to buy keyboards that don't break, or ones you can fix yourself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although, your post reminded me of these. Pretty hard to go wrong with these.


funnily enough i just saw this one on amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0041KJKAG/ref=asc_df_B0041KJKAG3/?tag=ciaouk-ce-21&creative=22110&creativeASIN=B0041KJKAG&linkCode=asn]Cherry G80 High Quality Click Action Keyboard G80-3000LSCGB-2: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories[/URL]

£61.... very tempting, it is the correct keyboard (mxblue switch?) so many codes with cherry keyboards but amazon says its G80-3000LSCGB-2 which i believe means its the 3000 series with Laser scribed keys and is GB layout. Cherry give a 2year warranty aswell!

I dont need any of the audio/usb ports, just want the NKRO(i have a ps/2 port) and keys that wont die easily







, backlit would be a plus but i can live without it







.

So whats wrong with cherries?

edit: whats with the description.. Membrane contact switches with rubber-mat technology for individual use, im a noob with keyboards but to me that sounds like dome switches


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;14167719*
> So it works with a USB-PS/2 adapter? Would like to see some sort of documented evidence for this


What, pictures of it connected to a not-mac









You technically loose 2 keys when it's plugged into PS/2 because of the USB driver that's needed to correctly confirgure the Alt and Windows keys.
Though, with a USB to PS/2 adapter they are not gone. They just don't do anything normally. (Unless you have your system setup to accept them.)

Though I don't know why they're just not re-mapped physically like Clear is (as clear becomes Numlock)

You also loose functionality in the Eject key. Though, IIRC, I could remap that with software (I just don't recall the scan code off the top of my head.)

In truth, not every key works under the Windows environment; but it's just the Mac specific stuff.
If you used it on a Hackintosh with a PS/2 port it would all be fine.


----------



## ch_123

Those keyboards don't have NKRO, then again, neither will just about anything else in your price range.

When you say Cherries, do you mean the switches, or the keyboards themselves?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14167813*
> What, pictures of it connected to a not-mac


Well, I mean evidence of it working with a USB-PS/2 adapter. It would seem rather odd for a manufacturer to provide PS/2 support on a USB keyboard that is intended to be used on computers that have never PS/2 ports.

I know it will work with a PC over USB, my issue was with claims that it can somehow be hooked up to a PS/2 port.


----------



## hicks12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;14167814*
> Those keyboards don't have NKRO, then again, neither will just about anything else in your price range.
> 
> When you say Cherries, do you mean the switches, or the keyboards themselves?
> 
> -snip-


Sorry i meant the keyboard







. So far i guess its out of the razer blackwidow and that cherry as they are both between 60-70 quid, i just dont know what to expect from the razer in terms of quality. If steelseries 7g/6gv2 had mxblues id probs go with them but it seems blacks are just good for gaming, i do both and dont want to have two keyboards as its to expensive and to much hassle.

Edit: just wish the UK Filco Majestouch, NKR, Click Action Keyboard was <£90 in england







... £114 at keyboard co . As it seems filco are like the best currently but are pricey


----------



## ch_123

The build quality of the G80-3000s aren't amazing, but there's no problems with them as per se. They have good keycaps though IIRC. Great keyboard for the money.


----------



## Tator Tot

It's like I said before, if you use PS/2 then in windows (Because you don't have the ability to use the USB Driver provided by Matias) you loose some functionality.


----------



## hicks12

just realised that the razer bw only has a 2kro... ***!? thats off the list then...

Back to square one lol, need to decide on the switch to use and then what keyboard







. Why cant pcworld or something have mechanical keyboards on show to try!


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14167977*
> It's like I said before, if you use PS/2 then in windows (Because you don't have the ability to use the USB Driver provided by Matias) you loose some functionality.


I think there is some sort of misunderstanding going on here. Allow me to spell out my query.

The claim has been made that the Tactile Pro supports NKRO when used via the PS/2 interface. The Tactile Pro is a USB keyboard. Thus, in order for us to use the Tactile Pro on PS/2, some sort of USB-PS/2 adapter must be used. In order for a USB keyboard to support such an adapter, the controller has to be designed in such a way that it sends both PS/2 and USB signals over the cable. Most keyboards do not do this, so in most cases, these adapters do not work. The likelihood that the Tactile Pro supports such an adapter is diminished further by the fact that it's designed for systems which do not have PS/2 ports.

Thus, unless I see someone saying that they have hooked their Tactile Pro up to a USB-PS/2 adapter, connected it to a PS/2 port, and be able to use it, I'm inclined to call bull****.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hicks12;14168165*
> just realised that the razer bw only has a 2kro... ***!? thats off the list then...
> 
> Back to square one lol, need to decide on the switch to use and then what keyboard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Why cant pcworld or something have mechanical keyboards on show to try!


There's nothing wrong with 2KRO, most keyboards out there are 2KRO.

Unlike the guide in the OP would imply, 2KRO does *not* mean that you can only press down two keys at once, it means that certain combinations of more than 2 keys get dropped. This is the behavior of about 99% of keyboards out there.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hicks12;14168165*
> just realised that the razer bw only has a 2kro... ***!? thats off the list then...
> 
> Back to square one lol, need to decide on the switch to use and then what keyboard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Why cant pcworld or something have mechanical keyboards on show to try!


It does feature a "gaming optimized" matrix.

Though, as far as what blocks and what doesn't.......well Razer doesn't publish that information.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;14168248*
> I think there is some sort of misunderstanding going on here. Allow me to spell out my query.
> 
> The claim has been made that the Tactile Pro supports NKRO when via the PS/2 interface. The Tactile Pro is a USB keyboard. Thus, in order for us to use the Tactile Pro on PS/2, some sort of USB-PS/2 adapter must be used. In order for a USB keyboard to support such an adapter, the controller has to be designed in such a way that it sends both PS/2 and USB signals over the cable. Most keyboards do not do this, so in most cases, these adapters do not work. The likelihood that the Tactile Pro supports such an adapter is diminished further by the fact that it's designed for systems which do not have PS/2 ports.
> 
> Thus, unless I see someone saying that they have hooked their Tactile Pro up to a USB-PS/2 adapter, connected it to a PS/2 port, and be able to use it, I'm inclined to call bull.


Well I'll figure that out for sure as I have a TP3 in my collection.

As a side discussion:
Is anyone offering a longer than 1 year warranty on their keyboards?
The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Unicomp who offers a 18 Month warranty.

Razer, Steel Series, Zowie, Mionix, Leopold, Rosewill, ABS, Filco, Deck, Ducky, Topre/Realforce, PFU HHKB, & X-Armor were/are all 1 year.

EDIT: Q-Pad's version of the U9BL offers a 2 year warranty.


----------



## ch_123

What are the switches like in the TP3? I'm not sure whether they are Strongman like the Guide claims (Strongman ceased production some time ago) or Forward ones like the ones in the Filco Zero and ABS M1.


----------



## hicks12

@tator tot, i had a look at steelseries website earlier and it says a 2 year warranty and also razer gives a 2 year warranty.

Just found this post somewhere:
"ASX (diagonal move and comms)
WDE (diagonal move and open door)
SDC (diagonal move and try to crouch)
WAQ (diagonal move and toss grenade)
CTRL-AQ (crawling and toss grenade)
ESDF variations with other keys (for ESDF players)
ARROW KEY cluster and a bunch of other keys (for you lefties)
CAPSLOCK-LSHIFT-S If you using the Capslock for CTRL this particular key combo can be a pain while doing some general software. Interestingly enough this key combo PASSES on Unicomp Spacesavers. Don't assume the behavior of all 2KRO keyboards are the same. In this case Unicomp must use a different matrix to pick up the Windows keys and so it fails WAX, a combo that passes in the IBM Model M.
All work except CTRL-AQ.

2 key rollover on the arrow keys.

Space bar doesn't effect rollover much when compared to without spacebar.

And... well, I can't test everything. It has better n-key than a typical keyboard, but it is definitely not n-key and optimization is pretty much limited to the WASD and equivalent clusters, excluding the arrow keys."

Back to switches, am i understanding it correctly that i.e

MXblue = Clicky/tactile response so you can feel/hear the actuation point
MXblack = no click and no tactile response so you only hear it when you bottom out
MXbrown = tactile response at actuation point but no click

Is that right? I see the SS 7g and like it more and more but the black with no feedback seems a bit pointless, and the razer BW has a glossy finish (seriously what idiot designed the aesthetics, glossy + hands!?) and it seems mxblue can have a problem with double tapping.

Its so hard to decide on a switch when i cant go anywhere to try some out!







.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;14168448*
> What are the switches like in the TP3? I'm not sure whether they are Strongman like the Guide claims (Strongman ceased production some time ago) or Forward ones like the ones in the Filco Zero and ABS M1.


They're clicky Alps, they definitely are not the same as the ABS M1; as far as my "super precise" finger tests go, they are lighter than the ABS M1 by a small margin (I'd say 5G or so) with a more crisp and defined click.

The Locks keys are linear alps though (they are not a well defined green color, but more like "tinted" green.)

I don't have a Filco Zero to compare against, but I do have a Solidtek 6600 which in comparison is a bit more stiff (in line with the ABS M1) though the "click" sound and feel is very similar to the Matias.

Out of the 5 Alps boards I have (Matias, Dell, ABS, Solidtek & Ducky) the Matias definitely feels like it has the best swtiches.

According to Sixty; Strong Man is the OEM for Matias boards as well. Though I don't know if they're doing special orders of those switches or not.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hicks12;14168676*
> @tator tot, i had a look at steelseries website earlier and it says a 2 year warranty and also razer gives a 2 year warranty.


US Warranty on the Razer & Steelseries websites says 1 Year for keyboards.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hicks12;14168676*
> Is that right? I see the SS 7g and like it more and more but the black with no feedback seems a bit pointless, and the razer BW has a glossy finish (seriously what idiot designed the aesthetics, glossy + hands!?) and it seems mxblue can have a problem with double tapping.
> 
> Its so hard to decide on a switch when i cant go anywhere to try some out!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I would go with the BlackWidow if you can; it gives you plenty of features, and the keycaps are preferred to the 7G (IMO) as the 7G has some very cheap feeling (and cheap in quality) keycaps.)
And yes, you got the switches right.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14168717*
> They're clicky Alps, they definitely are not the same as the ABS M1; as far as my "super precise" finger tests go, they are lighter than the ABS M1 by a small margin (I'd say 5G or so) with a more crisp and defined click.


They're not the same switch (ABS M1 has black Forward switches). Just that they're from the same manufacturer. Guess what I said originally was misleading








Quote:


> According to Sixty; Strong Man is the OEM for Matias boards as well. Though I don't know if they're doing special orders of those switches or not.


Again, I'm almost certain that they are out of business now. I think they made older revisions of the Tactile Pro, just not the current ones.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;14168774*
> They're not the same switch (ABS M1 has black Forward switches). Just that they're from the same manufacturer. Guess what I said originally was misleading


Ah, well the ABS M1 & Solidtek 6600 are not that well built.

The Dell is well built with solid switches, but those Alps are showing their age. They definitely feel more rough, compared to when I first got them (used it constantly for almost 3 months.)

The Matias is definitely the best built Alps board I've had.

Though; the Ducky doesn't have any issues. Keycaps are more or less the same as the normal ABS keycaps on the Cherry MX Ducky's, and the bodies are built the same.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;14168774*
> Again, I'm almost certain that they are out of business now. I think they made older revisions of the Tactile Pro, just not the current ones.


Well I'm no expert, and I don't know any of the business information about Strong Man so I can't look it up (them being from China would also make that much harder.)


----------



## hicks12

very well, i believe i will order the blackwidow... i hope i like it! would have got the das ultimate silent or what ever it is (mxbrown) but almost double the price of the BW unfortunately, maybe someday after uni ill try one out! Will post back when i get my bw hehe


----------



## ch_123

Out of curiosity, what made you go for the Razer over the Cherry G80?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14168962*
> Ah, well the ABS M1 & Solidtek 6600 are not that well built.
> 
> The Dell is well built with solid switches, but those Alps are showing their age. They definitely feel more rough, compared to when I first got them (used it constantly for almost 3 months.)
> 
> The Matias is definitely the best built Alps board I've had.


The Dells have the original "complicated" Black Alps switches. They're an alright keyboard. Best Alps keyboard I have is my SGI AT101 modded with Blue switches. I'm sure the Northgates would be a step up in terms of quality, but I'm not sufficiently interested in Alps to get another one.
Quote:


> Well I'm no expert, and I don't know any of the business information about Strong Man so I can't look it up (them being from China would also make that much harder.)


No one really understands Alps keyboards. Ripster tried to do - Could explain his recent mental state.


----------



## hicks12

havent ordered yet but kinda set on it. Its £66 at amazon, £5 more than the cherry and same amount of warranty and ive been reading reviews and the razer isnt actually disliked to much at the price point (dont see the point in the ultimate), it has a few extra macrokeys which i know i said i dont need but i do sometimes have a few games on CSS so being able to set up macros just for that game would be a nice extra oh and the media keys (yeah i know they arent dedicated media keys but im not fussed







)

Or did i miss something, only thing is the glossy finish so far and im thinking in my head if theres away around that, possibly use some screen protector type stuff.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;14169146*
> The Dells have the original "complicated" Black Alps switches. They're an alright keyboard. Best Alps keyboard I have is my SGI AT101 modded with Blue switches. I'm sure the Northgates would be a step up in terms of quality, but I'm not sufficiently interested in Alps to get another one.


The Dell AT101 is definitely a solid board. Considering I only paid $25 for it I was happy.

The only issue I have with the board is the dye job didn't take as well the first time I tried to do it.

I wouldn't have died it except that it was in a smokey environment before and kept it's smoke smell. The dye removed it but didn't hold so wel the first time. My second go did better and now it's more of a matte black (with a slight texture due to the old coating.)


----------



## JacobKay97

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *De-Zant;14167515*
> Can I make ghetto keycap pullers out of some paper clippers?


I made a keycap puller out of a nice strong paperclip.
Works great tbh.


----------



## gonX

I used a guitar pick until I got one of the plastic keycap pullers. But yes, you can make them out of a paperclip.


----------



## hicks12

well a friend of mine is looking at work for a dell keyboard as she said they had loads and she thinks they used mxblues or something so im holding off till i find out if she found one or not as getting the chance to test one in person is much prefered as i may not even like the blues







(doubtful!)


----------



## ch_123

Probably one of these










Uses Black Alps switches. Good for a first mech keyboard, but they have nothing on a Blue Cherry keyboard of any variety. Still, cant argue with free.

Unless of course your friend found a Dell Model M...


----------



## Smallville

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hicks12;14176732*
> well a friend of mine is looking at work for a dell keyboard as she said they had loads and she thinks they used mxblues or something so im holding off till i find out if she found one or not as getting the chance to test one in person is much prefered as i may not even like the blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (doubtful!)


I don't think any Dell keyboard used Mx Blues. They used Black Alps though, like the guy above me said. It's still better than a rubber dome keyboard


----------



## hicks12

thanks for the info, i wont have high hopes then but i guess if she does manage to get one ill actually be able to see how much of a difference mech vs crappy dome is and decide whether or not to up my budget to £100+


----------



## hicks12

right well it seems my friend cant find any at the minute and when I start reading a lot into an item i end up failing in waiting







.

Im thinking the filco...http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=646
brown switch as the more i read about them the more i like them and it seems almost perfect (will see in person haha), only reason blues are out is the doubletap disadvantage







.

Is there anything i should be aware of with the above filco? any cons? my knowledge of mech keyboards is still pathetic but from what i gather its pad printed and so has the potential to wear much quicker(i thought it was a premium board?).

Also could someone explaint he difference between plate and pcb mounted? i gather its the way the switch is mounted, i.e pcb mounted is exactly that... what are the pros/cons to them as i cant find a mention of it in the guide.

And finally, what materials does the filco use? i seem to recall certain plastics used in frames are susceptible to warping, id presume the filco doesnt suffer from this?

Again, appreciate the comments and am almost sorted! (if you havent gathered ive decided to up my budget to £120 lol, suggestions that are available in normal uk layout and for sale in uk are crucial.)


----------



## v1ral

Any word about TankGuys' coming back from vacation?
I would like to get a Ducky board!!


----------



## DEEBS808

HHKB Pro2 vs Realforce 86U?which would be a better choice.Thanks


----------



## Grief

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hicks12;14195736*
> right well it seems my friend cant find any at the minute and when I start reading a lot into an item i end up failing in waiting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Im thinking the filco...http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=646
> brown switch as the more i read about them the more i like them and it seems almost perfect (will see in person haha), only reason blues are out is the doubletap disadvantage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Is there anything i should be aware of with the above filco? any cons? my knowledge of mech keyboards is still pathetic but from what i gather its pad printed and so has the potential to wear much quicker(i thought it was a premium board?).
> 
> Also could someone explaint he difference between plate and pcb mounted? i gather its the way the switch is mounted, i.e pcb mounted is exactly that... what are the pros/cons to them as i cant find a mention of it in the guide.
> 
> And finally, what materials does the filco use? i seem to recall certain plastics used in frames are susceptible to warping, id presume the filco doesnt suffer from this?
> 
> Again, appreciate the comments and am almost sorted! (if you havent gathered ive decided to up my budget to £120 lol, suggestions that are available in normal uk layout and for sale in uk are crucial.)


Filco is one of the preferred brands of OCN, go with it you won't be disappointed.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v1ral;14196787*
> Any word about TankGuys' coming back from vacation?
> I would like to get a Ducky board!!


He'll be on vacation till Sunday and the site should be back up Sunday night or Monday morning.

Gotta give the guy a vacation though, he processes a lot of keyboard orders


----------



## hicks12

right then, about to push purchase over at keyboardco...... my wallet is crying in the suspense









edit: BOUGHT! Now can someone point me to a place that sells a like silicon/rubber cover for the filco keyboard as the area its in can get a fair bit dusty so if i leave it i want to just put something over it really, cheap as possible


----------



## Vipervlv

I want to ask a question regarding a keyboard - it's rather old one
Compaq Keyboard KB-9965 - i want to know is it mechanical and of what type?
Cause i use it in work and its really good but couldn't find any info on the type of the keyboard.
This is the keyboard:


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vipervlv;14200221*
> I want to ask a question regarding a keyboard - it's rather old one
> Compaq Keyboard KB-9965 - i want to know is it mechanical and of what type?
> Cause i use it in work and its really good but couldn't find any info on the type of the keyboard.
> This is the keyboard:


Just a rubber dome keyboard.


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vipervlv;14200221*
> I want to ask a question regarding a keyboard - it's rather old one
> Compaq Keyboard KB-9965 - i want to know is it mechanical and of what type?
> Cause i use it in work and its really good but couldn't find any info on the type of the keyboard.
> This is the keyboard:


My grandparents has one of those, except in black. Was included with their Compaq they bought around 1998, lol. It's a decent rubber dome, that's all.

Your best bet to verify is to take off a keycap (use a flathead screwdriver) and check what kind of mechanism is down there.


----------



## hicks12

damn think i missed the cut off time for keyboard co







, ordered at like 2:40pm and it says 2:30 is cutoff for next day... oh well







.


----------



## ChoboGuy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14200425*
> Just a rubber dome keyboard.


Hey do you have any scoop on whether if Ducky is planning on coming out with a backlit 1087? Thanks


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChoboGuy;14206699*
> Hey do you have any scoop on whether if Ducky is planning on coming out with a backlit 1087? Thanks


I can't comment on that. If they do make a backlit Tenkeyless board, we'll have it though


----------



## Concept_357

Hey,

I'm a really hardcore FPS gamer.

I'm having a really hard time deciding between the Razer Blackwidow (normal) and the DAS Prosfessional silent. I can get the Razer localy for 79$ and the DAS for 110$ w/ free shipping, I've used the blackwidow and loved the key switches although they sound very loud, the brown switches seem much more attractive to me since they seem to offer me all the qualitues i want. Price is a factor for me so I'm leaning towards the Razer but I wouldn't having someone convince me the DAS is better.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Concept_357;14216044*
> Hey,
> 
> I'm a really hardcore FPS gamer.
> 
> I'm having a really hard time deciding between the Razer Blackwidow (normal) and the DAS Prosfessional silent. I can get the Razer localy for 79$ and the DAS for 110$ w/ free shipping, I've used the blackwidow and loved the key switches although they sound very loud, the brown switches seem much more attractive to me since they seem to offer me all the qualitues i want. Price is a factor for me so I'm leaning towards the Razer but I wouldn't having someone convince me the DAS is better.


The Das is built better, but that's all it really offers over the Razer; the Razer may be a better board for you at the end of the day.

Since you've tried the Razer and it is dramatically cheaper; I would go for it. $80 is a good price if those two boards are your only options.

Where are you from though? You may have more options available to you.


----------



## Romin

I wondering if this keyboard is a mechanical one?!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gatewayanykey.jpg


----------



## ch_123

No, rubber dome.

Still meant to be a good keyboard though.


----------



## Thedark1337

does anyone know what switches are this keyboard? : http://www.i-rocksusa.com/products/KR-6820E-BK.html#2

or is it a rubber dome?


----------



## Romin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;14221840*
> No, rubber dome.
> 
> Still meant to be a good keyboard though.


So why Its keys are softer than ordinary keyboard's ? my dad bought it in 89 with his Gateway PC.


----------



## csm725

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thedark1337;14221879*
> does anyone know what switches are this keyboard? : http://www.i-rocksusa.com/products/KR-6820E-BK.html#2
> 
> or is it a rubber dome?


Rubber dome by the $30 price.


----------



## Thedark1337

hm Rubber Dome with 11kro . Good enough lol


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thedark1337;14221879*
> does anyone know what switches are this keyboard? : http://www.i-rocksusa.com/products/KR-6820E-BK.html#2
> 
> or is it a rubber dome?


Dome, but a damn good one at that.

The KR-6230 from iRocks is a solid mechanical board if you can find it.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thedark1337;14222025*
> hm Rubber Dome with 11kro . Good enough lol


Its not 11key , it has a gaming optimized cluster of 11 keys. This is better than most that only optimized wasd but it is not nkro at all.

I am typing on the Irock 6230 with browns. Good keyboard, almost exactly the same as the basic Razor, although razor does not use Browns. Be a bit careful of the key layout. It takes getting used to, and makes other keyboards also odd after you are use to it. Specifically the ? is in an odd place.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69;14222732*
> Its not 11key , it has a gaming optimized cluster of 11 keys. This is better than most that only optimized wasd but it is not nkro at all.
> 
> I am typing on the Irock 6230 with browns. Good keyboard, almost exactly the same as the basic Razor, although razor does not use Browns. Be a bit careful of the key layout. It takes getting used to, and makes other keyboards also odd after you are use to it. Specifically the ? is in an odd place.


iRocks at least has solid documentation as to where the Optimization is at. IE: WSAD & Arrows


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Romin;14221899*
> So why Its keys are softer than ordinary keyboard's ? my dad bought it in 89 with his Gateway PC.


Some older rubber dome keyboards are much better built than current ones.


----------



## treguo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14222344*
> Dome, but a damn good one at that.
> 
> The KR-6230 from iRocks is a solid mechanical board if you can find it.


I would get that keyboard again. It is actually very good compared to first gen filco mjtouch despite some negative user reviews. But used ones on forums are the only bet to find them.


----------



## Lostintyme

Hey everyone at the mechanical keyboard club,

I'm in a bit of a situation here. Right now, I have my huge mousepad on a keyboard slider, which is about 5inches below my keyboard which is on the desk itself. I like to have my hands on the same level while gaming, so I ordered this which is small enough to also fit on the keyboard slider. Once I get this, I'd like to someday join the mech. keyboard craze and grab one for myself, but *only for typing.*. Not gaming, I don't want myself to be wanting to even touch it during gaming, but I want to love it while typing. Are there any keyboards like this? Thanks!


----------



## csm725

Kinesis Contoured maybe?


----------



## Lostintyme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725;14245501*
> Kinesis Contoured maybe?


<$200 please


----------



## csm725

Ah. In that case, no idea.


----------



## asuperpower

Going for a Deck Legend Fire (PS2) in my next build.


----------



## csm725

You can make a lot of money from network marketing.


----------



## haticK

Does anyone know when the full-sized Leopold keyboards will be available in the US? I've been reading nonstop about mechanical keyboards and am pretty set on getting one of these with brown switches but don't think I want to buy one without a numpad...it just seems weird not to have it.


----------



## csm725

Register on GH and ask EK?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *csm725*


Register on GH and ask EK?


Or you could just email them.


----------



## csm725

ninjad by the gameserver mod


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:



Originally Posted by *csm725*


Or you could just email them.


Beat you


----------



## r4pture

I wonder why the Northgate Omnikeys aren't listed under Original ALPS on here?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r4pture;14317724*
> I wonder why the Northgate Omnikeys aren't listed under Original ALPS on here?


The "List of Keyboards by switch type" is out of date and will take some serious work to compile and complete.


----------



## csm725

I would remove it altogether.


----------



## r4pture

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725;14320774*
> I would remove it altogether.


I'd disagree with that, a list of older boards like that would be incredibly helpful.


----------



## csm725

But you have no idea how much work goes in to compiling such a list. No doubt it would be useful but not worth the effort.


----------



## ch_123

That list was an ancient list on Geekhack that got lifted and thrown onto the OCN guide. The Geekhack one hasn't been updated in years.

Compiling any sort of meaningful list of that nature is extraordinarily difficult. I mean, I maintain the IBM Wiki on Geekhack, and the IBM wiki articles on Deskthority, and I'm still finding out about ones I'd never heard of all the time. And that's just one manufacturer!


----------



## csm725

Yeah - as I said this guide is impossible. Tator is great but not a god.








Maybe Tator, webwit, ripster, ch, reaper all together could try.







h


----------



## ripster

Check the Geekhack WW Keyboards Sorted By Switch Wiki for the commonly shipping keyboards. Also includes links to reviews.

I'm not really into Vintage.


----------



## Tator Tot

I want to keep the list, and at least get it updated to a more reflective nature of common boards so that anyone looking at a Vintage keyboard on Craigs List, Ebay, or any of the other auction sites; can get a quick reference if to it may be mechanical or not.

It might be old, and it may take a lot of work; but I think once I get some of the replacements in, I can get more done with it.


----------



## AgentHydra

I'm getting a 1984 Model M (Part No. 82G2383). I've looked all over the place and can't find anything about its KRO (granted, my Googling skills suck).

Any of you guys know anything about its rollover?

Thanks


----------



## r4pture

Sadly, the one bad thing about buckling spring KBs is they're almost universally 2KRO. There are some 3 and 4 (maybe more) key combos that can be pressed, but its classified as 2KRO.

Also, looking forward to an updated vintage list, thats really what I've gotten into collecting now.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AgentHydra*


I'm getting a 1984 Model M (Part No. 82G2383). I've looked all over the place and can't find anything about its KRO (granted, my Googling skills suck).

Any of you guys know anything about its rollover?

Thanks










IBM Matrix, 2KRO

You'll get some blocking, but for any FPS you should be more than fine. Strategy & RPG games may run into issues but I can game on a 2KRO board just fine most of the time.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AgentHydra;14324538*
> I'm getting a 1984 Model M (Part No. 82G2383). I've looked all over the place and can't find anything about its KRO (granted, my Googling skills suck).
> 
> Any of you guys know anything about its rollover?
> 
> Thanks


They are 2KRO, but the matrix is decent, I haven't ran into any issues, although I mainly play RTS games, and not a lot of FPS games. I have played some FPS games on them though without problems. The matrix is probably better than most rubber dome keyboards anyway.

On another note, given that the 82G' was made from 1993-1996, it would seem somewhat unlikely that yours was made in 1984









This is a common thing that eBay sellers do - On the label on the back, there's a copyright notice from IBM or Lexmark dated 1984, and some think that this is the production date (or want everyone else to think it to make the keyboard look more rare and vintage). This was the year that the particular implementation of the buckling spring used in the Model M was introduced. The first regular Model M entered production in mid 1985. The actual production date for the keyboard is usually on the other side of the label, and usually jumps out more than the copyright


----------



## smitty5569

Quick question: What should I get Cherry black or brown?

From the OP I got the blacks have no tactile feedback but browns do and for that reason blacks are better for gaming but worse for typing. But how does tactile feedback effect gaming/typing? I mainly care about gaming but I don't want to completely sacrifice typing.

P.S.
Feel free to recommend a keyboard


----------



## magna224

I prefer blacks for gaming simply because I always have some pressure on the keys and I found using browns to be difficult with the small bump. I also like the resistance that the blacks have, browns were too light for me. I like blacks for typing too though, It depends on the person. When I chose a keyboard with black switches for gaming it was between the noppoo choc mini and the kbc poker. I ended up going with the noppoo to save a few $.


----------



## AgentHydra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r4pture;14324947*
> Sadly, the one bad thing about buckling spring KBs is they're almost universally 2KRO. There are some 3 and 4 (maybe more) key combos that can be pressed, but its classified as 2KRO.


Oh ok, thanks. +Rep
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14325163*
> IBM Matrix, 2KRO
> 
> You'll get some blocking, but for any FPS you should be more than fine. Strategy & RPG games may run into issues but I can game on a 2KRO board just fine most of the time.


Yeah I'm hoping to play FPS games on it, I guess I'll just have to try it out and see. Thanks
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;14326313*
> They are 2KRO, but the matrix is decent, I haven't ran into any issues, although I mainly play RTS games, and not a lot of FPS games. I have played some FPS games on them though without problems. The matrix is probably better than most rubber dome keyboards anyway.
> 
> On another note, given that the 82G' was made from 1993-1996, it would seem somewhat unlikely that yours was made in 1984
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a common thing that eBay sellers do - On the label on the back, there's a copyright notice from IBM or Lexmark dated 1984, and some think that this is the production date (or want everyone else to think it to make the keyboard look more rare and vintage). This was the year that the particular implementation of the buckling spring used in the Model M was introduced. The first regular Model M entered production in mid 1985. The actual production date for the keyboard is usually on the other side of the label, and usually jumps out more than the copyright


Lol thats exactly what I was looking at, I'm dumb









Thanks for the info, +Rep


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smitty5569;14327645*
> Quick question: What should I get Cherry black or brown?
> 
> From the OP I got the blacks have no tactile feedback but browns do and for that reason blacks are better for gaming but worse for typing. But how does tactile feedback effect gaming/typing? I mainly care about gaming but I don't want to completely sacrifice typing.
> 
> P.S.
> Feel free to recommend a keyboard


Blacks require slightly more force than your average rubber dome keyboard. Thus they can make it tying to type on for extended periods of time (this depends on the person though.)

Browns require less force and are easier for many to use but they don't like the tactile bump as it temporarily increases the force by about 10 grams and that feel of it doesn't "feel" right to some when gaming. Other's don't mind.
Typers like that feel as that's when the tactile feedback comes in and you can stop pressing the key as you know it's registered. Meaning you don't have to bottom out.

For MX-Black based board, the Overclock.net Ducky with PBT Keycaps would be a good option.
If you can find it (since they're harder to find in the US due to being OOS at many places) the SteelSeries 6Gv2 is another good option. It's $20 less then the OCN Ducky and comes with many of the same features (NKRO & Media keys) as well as one of the more important "gamer" features (lack of a left Windows key, the OCN Ducky can disable this key, but comes with it as well.)


----------



## smitty5569

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14328186*
> Blacks require slightly more force than your average rubber dome keyboard. Thus they can make it tying to type on for extended periods of time (this depends on the person though.)
> 
> Browns require less force and are easier for many to use but they don't like the tactile bump as it temporarily increases the force by about 10 grams and that feel of it doesn't "feel" right to some when gaming. Other's don't mind.
> Typers like that feel as that's when the tactile feedback comes in and you can stop pressing the key as you know it's registered. Meaning you don't have to bottom out.
> 
> For MX-Black based board, the Overclock.net Ducky with PBT Keycaps would be a good option.
> If you can find it (since they're harder to find in the US due to being OOS at many places) the SteelSeries 6Gv2 is another good option. It's $20 less then the OCN Ducky and comes with many of the same features (NKRO & Media keys) as well as one of the more important "gamer" features (lack of a left Windows key, the OCN Ducky can disable this key, but comes with it as well.)


I was looking at the SS 6Gv2 it looks like a pretty solid MX-Black keyboard and I found one for $70. The OCN Ducky is pretty awesome, I like the ESC key but its a bit of out of my price range, I'd like to spend <100 dollars if I can. I'll prob end up getting the SS board if I decide to go with MX-black.









Anyways back to the question!

So a MX-black will usually will bottom out (because of the lack of tactile feedback) and it takes a bit more pressure to press down the keys, so overall it would be a bit more tiring but it's more smooth because there's not tactile bump half way through the key press? Then a MX-brown requires less pressure and has a tactile bump to help prevent bottoming out, so overall it would be less tiring (and faster?) to type on but feels less smooth because of the tactile bump.

Basically I'm imaging the MX-black to be more like a typical rubber domed keyboard with a mechanical feel and a MX-brown to be the same as black but with tactile bump when the keystroke is registered to help prevent bottoming out.

To me the MX-brown sounds like a better option because it requires less force, it has a tactile bump that helps with typing or double tapping and I'd imagine the tactile bump is easy to ignore when gaming but I've never used one before. What are your thoughts?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smitty5569;14328670*
> I was looking at the SS 6Gv2 it looks like a pretty solid MX-Black keyboard and I found one for $70. The OCN Ducky is pretty awesome, I like the ESC key but its a bit of out of my price range, I'd like to spend <100 dollars if I can. I'll prob end up getting the SS board if I decide to go with MX-black.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways back to the question!
> 
> So a MX-black will usually will bottom out (because of the lack of tactile feedback) and it takes a bit more pressure to press down the keys, so overall it would be a bit more tiring but it's more smooth because there's not tactile bump half way through the key press? Then a MX-brown requires less pressure and has a tactile bump to help prevent bottoming out, so overall it would be less tiring (and faster?) to type on but feels less smooth because of the tactile bump.
> 
> Basically I'm imaging the MX-black to be more like a typical rubber domed keyboard with a mechanical feel and a MX-brown to be the same as black but with tactile bump when the keystroke is registered to help prevent bottoming out.
> 
> To me the MX-brown sounds like a better option because it requires less force, it has a tactile bump that helps with typing or double tapping and I'd imagine the tactile bump is easy to ignore when gaming but I've never used one before. What are your thoughts?


Actually, the MX-Browns to me are more like a typical dome because they are not very tactile but require less force. The blacks are "springy" and feel very "solid." You don't feel like you're typing on something that's cheap; but something that's built well and very solid.

For Cherry MX-Switches, at the $100 budget, you're limited to MX-Blacks and the Steel Series 6Gv2 right now.

OCN will be getting more models from Ducky in stock soon that will be under the $100 mark. Full sized and Tenkeyless models.


----------



## smitty5569

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14328867*
> Actually, the MX-Browns to me are more like a typical dome because they are not very tactile but require less force. The blacks are "springy" and feel very "solid." You don't feel like you're typing on something that's cheap; but something that's built well and very solid.
> 
> For Cherry MX-Switches, at the $100 budget, you're limited to MX-Blacks and the Steel Series 6Gv2 right now.
> 
> OCN will be getting more models from Ducky in stock soon that will be under the $100 mark. Full sized and Tenkeyless models.


HMMM, I wish I could try some boards out before buying but since i live in a small town with no computer shops around so I can't. Everywhere I've been to has said black is the best for gaming and you seem to educated about this so I think I'll go with a mx-black board(I'm not 100% sure tho







).

Right now I'm thinking either a SS 6Gv2 or an OCN board. How soon is "soon" for the new OCN boards? I'd like to support OCN but I don't want to wait weeks before I can get one.

Just out of curiosity what board do you own?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smitty5569;14329176*
> HMMM, I wish I could try some boards out before buying but since i live in a small town with no computer shops around so I can't. Everywhere I've been to has said black is the best for gaming and you seem to educated about this so I think I'll go with a mx-black board(I'm not 100% sure tho
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).
> 
> Right now I'm thinking either a SS 6Gv2 or an OCN board. How soon is "soon" for the new OCN boards? I'd like to support OCN but I don't want to wait weeks before I can get one.
> 
> Just out of curiosity what board do you own?


My Daily Driver is the Deck Legend Frost Tactile. Only because it uses Cherry MX-Clear switches (which are my favorite.)

My secondary board (plus the one I travel with a lot) is the DK9008 MX-Brown version with PBT keycaps. (OCN edition)

As for how soon till the boards get here; I can't say as they're in customs. I'd estimate at a max of two weeks.


----------



## smitty5569

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


My Daily Driver is the Deck Legend Frost Tactile. Only because it uses Cherry MX-Clear switches (which are my favorite.)

My secondary board (plus the one I travel with a lot) is the DK9008 MX-Brown version with PBT keycaps. (OCN edition)

As for how soon till the boards get here; I can't say as they're in customs. I'd estimate at a max of two weeks.


The Deck Legend is a nice looking board I wont lie I love me some LEDs







. 
You use clear/brown but you'd recommend black over brown??

As for the OCN boards; hmm 2weeks + it would have to go through customs again to get into Canada. So it could be 3-4weeks. I may just get the SS board.


----------



## Tator Tot

For $70, you can't go wrong with the SS 6Gv2.

I like stiffer switches; so MX-Blacks are more at home for me. I don't like the lighter switches as much.

Browns to me are "boring old browns" as they are less tactile than MX-Blues or MX-Clears; as well as being very light (so I bottom out on them easily if I'm not paying attention.)

Switches are always about preference.


----------



## JacobKay97

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


For $70, you can't go wrong with the SS 6Gv2.

I like stiffer switches; so MX-Blacks are more at home for me. I don't like the lighter switches as much.

Browns to me are "boring old browns" as they are less tactile than MX-Blues or MX-Clears; as well as being very light (so I bottom out on them easily if I'm not paying attention.)

Switches are always about preference.


I have to agree with the bit about the browns being very light. I wouldn't mind trying clears. If I could get hold of some clear switches, I would probably mod my filco to use them.


----------



## smitty5569

Hmm, now you guys got me thinking about clears.









I think I'll just pick up a SS Gv6 tho. Black sounds like the best choice for me. 70 bucks for my first mechanical keyboard isn't bad and I can always get a different/better one later on.

Thanks for all the help Tator Tot. I'd give you rep but I don't think you can give to mods.


----------



## ChristoJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smitty5569;14332628*
> Hmm, now you guys got me thinking about clears.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'll just pick up a SS Gv6 tho. Black sounds like the best choice for me. 70 bucks for my first mechanical keyboard isn't bad and I can always get a different/better one later on.
> 
> Thanks for all the help Tator Tot. I'd give you rep but I don't think you can give to mods.


If you have a Best Buy store in your area (dunno how many in Canada) they usually carry a Razer Blackwidow or two. They have cherry blue switches and feel really nice.

Hope this helps ya!

Chris


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *smitty5569*


Hmm, now you guys got me thinking about clears.









I think I'll just pick up a SS Gv6 tho. Black sounds like the best choice for me. 70 bucks for my first mechanical keyboard isn't bad and I can always get a different/better one later on.

Thanks for all the help Tator Tot. I'd give you rep but I don't think you can give to mods.


No problem man, I'm glad I could help.

I really like the 6Gv2; the only thing I didn't like was the "Big Asian" style enter key. I like the normal ANSI layout.

"Big Asian" is trying to compromise between ISO and ANSI layouts.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ChristoJ*


If you have a Best Buy store in your area (dunno how many in Canada) they usually carry a Razer Blackwidow or two. They have cherry blue switches and feel really nice.

Hope this helps ya!

Chris


He said he didn't have any stores near by









NCIX I know stocks (and sometimes displays) the Black Widow, & the 6Gv2/7G


----------



## Dust

I've been using the blue switches on my Razer Blackwidow for a very long time now.

Loving the mechanical feel BUT I hate the tactile feedback.

Will be buying a new mech keyboard soon & have 3 choices to choose from:
-Steelseries 7G (Black)
-Filco Majestouch 2 (Brown)
-Filco Majestouch Ninja (Brown)

Which one do you guys recommend based on my feedback?
Also, what's the difference between the two Majestouch's aside from the imprinting on the keys?


----------



## jpm804

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dust;14348232*
> I've been using the blue switches on my Razer Blackwidow for a very long time now.
> 
> Loving the mechanical feel BUT I hate the tactile feedback.
> 
> Will be buying a new mech keyboard soon & have 3 choices to choose from:
> -Steelseries 7G (Black)
> -Filco Majestouch 2 (Brown)
> -Filco Majestouch Ninja (Brown)
> 
> Which one do you guys recommend based on my feedback?
> Also, what's the difference between the two Majestouch's aside from the imprinting on the keys?


I would recommend the Filco Browns since they are nice middle ground switchsince still some of the tactile feel but none of the clicky-ness. I like it for typing and also gaming.

The blacks are linear so defintely not tactile at all but more actuation force needed on them. Tried Blacks real quickly and didnt like the added force need to actuate the key and not sure I would like it for prolonged typing.

Also nothing different between ninja and non ninja, your right it just the imprinting of the keys on the front for the ninja. I like the ninja keys since less chance for the lettering wearing away over time.


----------



## Tator Tot

I'd get a SteelSeries 6Gv2 over the 7G; better keycaps and significantly cheaper in the states ($40 cheaper.)

The Majestouch 2 & Ninja both come in MX-Black switches like the SS6Gv2/7G so that's another consideration.

The 6Gv2 would be my choice; comes with Media keys which is always a bonus. The Filco's are equally a good though.


----------



## Dust

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14348293*
> I'd get a SteelSeries 6Gv2 over the 7G; better keycaps and significantly cheaper in the states ($40 cheaper.)
> 
> The Majestouch 2 & Ninja both come in MX-Black switches like the SS6Gv2/7G so that's another consideration.
> 
> The 6Gv2 would be my choice; comes with Media keys which is always a bonus. The Filco's are equally a good though.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jpm804;14348259*
> I would recommend the Filco Browns since they are nice middle ground switchsince still some of the tactile feel but none of the clicky-ness. I like it for typing and also gaming.
> 
> The blacks are linear so defintely not tactile at all but more actuation force needed on them. Tried Blacks real quickly and didnt like the added force need to actuate the key and not sure I would like it for prolonged typing.
> 
> Also nothing different between ninja and non ninja, your right it just the imprinting of the keys on the front for the ninja. I like the ninja keys since less chance for the lettering wearing away over time.


Thanks for the feedback!

I'll be going with Steelseries as I press my keys down hard & won't mind the extra force needed. That and the fact that the layout is gaming & media orientated.

That said, I'm choosing the 7G over the 6Gv2.

-Wrist rest. I play RTSs & MMOs a lot & it requires my wrist to move all over the keyboard within split seconds.

-USB hub. I use 2 mice & 2 headsets, extra ports will make a world of difference.

@Tator Tot. What do you mean by "better keycaps"?


----------



## Tator Tot

The 7G keycaps feel cheap and broke a lot


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14348764*
> The 7G keycaps feel cheap and broke a lot


The keycaps literally break? I find that hard to believe, the cheapest keycaps ever made on the cheapest $1 deal extreme keyboard don't break.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;14348952*
> The keycaps literally break? I find that hard to believe, the cheapest keycaps ever made on the cheapest $1 deal extreme keyboard don't break.


Yeah, I had my W key get a crack in the stem.
It's only had about a year of continuous use.

It hasn't split, but it is cracked.


----------



## ripster

Can you update the OP with the specs for the OCN keyboard at TankGuys?

Quote:



Ducky Keyboard - MX Overclock.net Edition - DK9008G2 - ABS, Black


Specifically, what is the difference in the G2 vs G1? The Ducky official website is a bit of a joke.


----------



## Tator Tot

I'll get them updated ASAP. I need to update other parts as well.

If you were wondering; the only real differences are the new Micro Controller (which gives the NKRO over USB) and the new dual layer PCB. 
Keycaps, casing, switches, etc; are all the same as before.

The DK9008 actually had a dual layer PCB in it as well; but their has been a slight modification to the G2 models PCB vs the original DK9008


----------



## ripster

So this shares the special edition Red Box controller - the one that doesn't work with OSX?

Are they ever going to fix that? The Leopold works fine with Win/Linux/OSX.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


So this shares the special edition Red Box controller - the one that doesn't work with OSX?

Are they ever going to fix that? The Leopold works fine with Win/Linux/OSX.


They're looking into a new micro controller now. 
It's only an issue with OSX as it seems to work on Linux as well.

Yes; it is the same controller though.

These also come with a bit nicer packaging. Updated to a full cover (and slightly larger) box with a bit better english terms, etc. (Though, that has nothing to do with the keyboard actually.)


----------



## MKB

Any chance of an 87 key with cherry clears or ergo-clears?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MKB*


Any chance of an 87 key with cherry clears or ergo-clears?


We can look into that as a possibility.









Ergo-Clears are self-made though, so no go on that one.


----------



## MKB

That would be really nice. I am not aware of any on the market. And there are several folks who like them.


----------



## Shogon

..


----------



## Scrappy

Yup, Das are very good keyboards.


----------



## Xazen

I didn't want to make a new thread for this so:

What are the differences between a Filco and Leopold boards? I heard somewhere that they were both actually made by the same company. If that is actually true why is there ~$40 difference in price between the two?

The reason I ask is because I want to get a mech keyboard and am currently interested in the tenkeyless variants of these brands atm.


----------



## csm725

Filco is a bit higher build quality. 
Two things you need to know in the Mech KB field:
1) "Once you Quack you never go back!"
2) Filco > Leopold


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Xazen*


I didn't want to make a new thread for this so:

What are the differences between a Filco and Leopold boards? I heard somewhere that they were both actually made by the same company. If that is actually true why is there ~$40 difference in price between the two?

The reason I ask is because I want to get a mech keyboard and am currently interested in the tenkeyless variants of these brands atm.


Depends on the specific boards. Many keyboards are made by a company called Costar. Das & Filco are the more famous of the two.

Filco Majestouch 2 10keyless & Leopold FC200R are very different boards.

Leopold's tenkeyless the board (the FC200R) uses PCB mounted switches, which can feel more mushy than normal keyboards.

The Leopold FC500R & Filco Majestouch 2 are just about the same, except the Leopold has 17KRO over USB while Majestouch 2's are only 6KRO.

Leopold & Filco Majestouch 2 keyboards all use 2 layer PCB's while original Majestouch boards use single layer PCBs.

Filco keycaps also have a "protective UV coating" on them, which looks like garbage after heavy use.


----------



## ChoboGuy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *csm725*


Filco is a bit higher build quality. 
Two things you need to know in the Mech KB field:
1) "Once you Quack you never go back!"
2) Filco > Leopold


Contrary to popular belief around here, Leopold is actually of higher build quality. Believe it or not, one of the main reasons why EK replaced the FILCOs with Leopolds is because of bad quality control with the FILCO boards. Brian reported that the Leopold DOA rate is less than a third of what it was with FILCOs. I also remember reading an interview (credits to keyboardlover) with the designer of FILCO who said that the Leopold had the better design because the Filco has an unstated flaw.

I still do prefer the typing feel of the FILCO over the Leopold though.


----------



## Tator Tot

Your preference is due to switch mounting though. Not anything related to the build.

The FC300R & FC500R are supposed to be plate mounted. So you may like them more.


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ChoboGuy*


Contrary to popular belief around here, Leopold is actually of higher build quality. Believe it or not, one of the main reasons why EK replaced the FILCOs with Leopolds is because of bad quality control with the FILCO boards. Brian reported that the Leopold DOA rate is less than a third of what it was with FILCOs. I also remember reading an interview (credits to keyboardlover) with the designer of FILCO who said that the Leopold had the better design because the Filco has an unstated flaw.

I still do prefer the typing feel of the FILCO over the Leopold though.


I wouldn't RMA a $99 keyboard either.

Your sources may be a bit biased.


----------



## Xazen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Depends on the specific boards. Many keyboards are made by a company called Costar. Das & Filco are the more famous of the two.

Filco Majestouch 2 10keyless & Leopold FC200R are very different boards.

Leopold's tenkeyless the board (the FC200R) uses PCB mounted switches, which can feel more mushy than normal keyboards.

The Leopold FC500R & Filco Majestouch 2 are just about the same, except the Leopold has 17KRO over USB while Majestouch 2's are only 6KRO.

Leopold & Filco Majestouch 2 keyboards all use 2 layer PCB's while original Majestouch boards use single layer PCBs.

Filco keycaps also have a "protective UV coating" on them, which looks like garbage after heavy use.


Thanks for the useful information.

I'm a little confused though. I assume that plate mounted switches are mounted to a metal plate rather than a circuit board.This review makes it seem that the Leopold uses plate mounted switches, not PCB mounted switches.

Are plate mounted switches inherently better? Do the Leopald boards suffer from this 'squishy' feeling that you mentioned?


----------



## ChoboGuy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Your preference is due to switch mounting though. Not anything related to the build.

The FC300R & FC500R are supposed to be plate mounted. So you may like them more.


Cool, wasn't aware of those models. Thanks for the heads up.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


I wouldn't RMA a $99 keyboard either.

Your sources may be a bit biased.


Why not? I don't think the FILCOs were that much more expensive than the Leo's when EK had them in stock.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ChoboGuy*


Cool, wasn't aware of those models. Thanks for the heads up.

Why not? I don't think the FILCOs were that much more expensive than the Leo's when EK had them in stock.


They were $110-$140 if memory serves. 
Otaku's being the more expensive models.


----------



## ChoboGuy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Xazen*


Thanks for the useful information.

I'm a little confused though. I assume that plate mounted switches are mounted to a metal plate rather than a circuit board.This review makes it seem that the Leopold uses plate mounted switches, not PCB mounted switches.

Are plate mounted switches inherently better? Do the Leopald boards suffer from this 'squishy' feeling that you mentioned?


You're correct, that's what plate mounted switches are. PCB mounted switches are mounted directly onto it's circuit board.

It doesn't necessarily mean that plate mounted switches are better. There are actually people that prefer PCB mounted switches. It doesn't really make all that much of a difference though so either choice is fine.


----------



## Varenyk

Greetings, new user here. I've been having wrist pains due to prolonged outward hand position during gaming since I'm using a large mousepad + Logitech G11 keyboard which is as big as a surfboard.

Figured that a smaller or ergonomic keyboard would allow me to play games with my left hand turned inwards for greater comfort. Someone suggested Deck 82 - Ice and a Google search brought me to this forum. Mechanical keyboards sound very intriguing.

My question is - how is Deck 82 - Ice & Tenkeyless from elitekeyboards comfort & quality wise? My budget was originally 75$ but I'm willing to splurge on quality and comfort. Are there any cheaper ergonomic mechanical keyboards than those mentioned on first page? Google brings up many sub 70$ ergonomic keyboards but they are still large and clunky and not mechanical.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Varenyk*


Greetings, new user here. I've been having wrist pains due to prolonged outward hand position during gaming since I'm using a large mousepad + Logitech G11 keyboard which is as big as a surfboard.

Figured that a smaller or ergonomic keyboard would allow me to play games with my left hand turned inwards for greater comfort. Someone suggested Deck 82 - Ice and a Google search brought me to this forum. Mechanical keyboards sound very intriguing.

My question is - how is Deck 82 - Ice & Tenkeyless from elitekeyboards comfort & quality wise? My budget was originally 75$ but I'm willing to splurge on quality and comfort. Are there any cheaper ergonomic mechanical keyboards than those mentioned on first page? Google brings up many sub 70$ ergonomic keyboards but they are still large and clunky and not mechanical.

Thanks in advance.


The Deck is higher quality, but due to the non-standard layout, may be less comfortable.

I suggest looking on Ebay for a KBC Poker, PLU-87, Ducky DK1087, or Noppoo Choc Mini. They're much closer to your budget (in the $100 area) and come in a variety of switch types.

If you really wanted to; you could splurge on quality & comfort with a Happy Hacking Keyboard or Realforce board.

Right now, the question is, what switch type do you want?


----------



## Varenyk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


The Deck is higher quality, but due to the non-standard layout, may be less comfortable.

I suggest looking on Ebay for a KBC Poker, PLU-87, Ducky DK1087, or Noppoo Choc Mini. They're much closer to your budget (in the $100 area) and come in a variety of switch types.

If you really wanted to; you could splurge on quality & comfort with a Happy Hacking Keyboard or Realforce board.

Right now, the question is, what switch type do you want?


Thanks for the quick reply and your keyboard suggestions. I don't mind spending a little extra if it means longer life but 125$ would be my absolute limit. Regarding switches - I haven't got a single clue. I've read most of first page and still can't decide. I have large hands and don't recall ever touching a mechanical keyboard - I guess Cherry MX Black Switches would have to be my pick.

Is the Deck Ice's keys regular size & spacing or are they scaled down in physical size?


----------



## wompwomp

So I'm always seeing threads about how reds, blacks, browns, and clears sound different but how is this possible?

Obviously blues sound different because of its "click" but the others should sound the same. The only noise it should make is the sound of the keycap bottoming out. I guess in theory though, the higher force switches (blacks and clears) should be slightly quieter due to the fact that users will not bottom out as hard as they would with the lighter switches.

I also see a lot of sound comparison clips on youtube of like "mx brown filco vs. mx brown das" or something like that and I guess they do sound slightly different but wouldn't it be due to the keycap factor? Some abs caps are thicker than others and I guess everything in the construction of the keyboard takes toll on how it sounds, PBC vs. plate counted takes effect, and even the frame on a keyboard might affect they way it sounds.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Varenyk*


Thanks for the quick reply and your keyboard suggestions. I don't mind spending a little extra if it means longer life but 125$ would be my absolute limit. Regarding switches - I haven't got a single clue. I've read most of first page and still can't decide. I have large hands and don't recall ever touching a mechanical keyboard - I guess Cherry MX Black Switches would have to be my pick.

Is the Deck Ice's keys regular size & spacing or are they scaled down in physical size?


Most of the keys are standard size, but some are shorter; like shift, caps, & tab; while 1 is larger, and the tilda key is moved down.

It's not your standard layout because of the tilda key (which some people use, but it probably won't effect you.)

The Deck is a great board; but Black switches are not for everyone as some take them as being too stiff. And thus tire them out.

Personally, I like MX-Clear switches found on the Deck Frost Tactile; which are 5G lighter (or 5G heavier if you go by the peak force.) I also like MX-Black switches and Buckling Springs (which are all stiffer/heavier switches.)

If you think Blacks are for you; that I can whole heartedly suggest the Deck.

The most common complaints about a Deck are from the looks. Not anything that effects longevity or typing experience.

Deck also has the best warranty so far (very open to modding) as well as some of the best build quality.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *wompwomp*


So I'm always seeing threads about how reds, blacks, browns, and clears sound different but how is this possible?

Obviously blues sound different because of its "click" but the others should sound the same. The only noise it should make is the sound of the keycap bottoming out. I guess in theory though, the higher force switches (blacks and clears) should be slightly quieter due to the fact that users will not bottom out as hard as they would with the lighter switches.

I also see a lot of sound comparison clips on youtube of like "mx brown filco vs. mx brown das" or something like that and I guess they do sound slightly different but wouldn't it be due to the keycap factor? Some abs caps are thicker than others and I guess everything in the construction of the keyboard takes toll on how it sounds, PBC vs. plate counted takes effect, and even the frame on a keyboard might affect they way it sounds.


Casing, Plate vs PBC Mounting, Key Caps, type of metal used for the plate, and the switches force all factor into noise.

What you need to realize is that a switch snaps back into place, because of the spring, which generates noise. The higher the snap back force, the louder it sounds.

It's like when pressing down a key. The harder you press it down, the more noise it'll make.

You can try this with just about any keyboard by putting as much force into pressing a key as you can (with your finger hovering above) and then compare the sound to your normal keystroke.


----------



## wompwomp

You sir are a very smart man tator tot. haha.


----------



## mondalaci

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xazen;14443743*
> Thanks for the useful information.
> 
> I'm a little confused though. I assume that plate mounted switches are mounted to a metal plate rather than a circuit board.This review makes it seem that the Leopold uses plate mounted switches, not PCB mounted switches.
> 
> Are plate mounted switches inherently better? Do the Leopald boards suffer from this 'squishy' feeling that you mentioned?


My Leopold keyboard (Model No.: FC200RT/KB, Part No.: FC2F00RC/AB) is surely plate mounted.

I cannot comprehend why one can prefer PCB mounting. I think it's inferior in every ways. Even a drop of water can kill you board.


----------



## csm725

The feel on my Filco Browns v Pokers is sharper and crisper, but the Poker felt a LITTLE more satisfying and tactile. It's all about the feel.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mondalaci;14446547*
> My Leopold keyboard (Model No.: FC200RT/KB, Part No.: FC2F00RC/AB) is surely plate mounted.
> 
> I cannot comprehend why one can prefer PCB mounting. I think it's inferior in every ways. Even a drop of water can kill you board.


It's not as if plate mounting makes the keyboard invincible. In fact, in a Cherry keyboard, there are openings at the bottom around the switch which are still exposed on a plate mounted keyboard. I had a switch in a Filco whose clicker was disabled by a rather small hair thanks to those gaps.


----------



## Xazen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *mondalaci*


My Leopold keyboard (Model No.: FC200RT/KB, Part No.: FC2F00RC/AB) is surely plate mounted.


I checked the EliteKeyboards site and it also states that the Leopold FC200RT/AB, which is the tenkeyless with MX Browns, is plate mounted. The OP, which links to the same page, seems to be in error as it states that the switches are PCB mounted.

Just thought I should give the heads up.


----------



## csm725

Leopold is plate-mounted and as said above has 17KRO over USB because they used the Microsoft Sidewinder matrix.


----------



## Varenyk

Can't decide between these two.
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...&pid=fc200rlab
http://www.deckkeyboards.com/product...products_id=30

Deck has LEDs, but unusual design.
Tenkeyless has no LEDs, but better design and possibly superior wrist comfort.

Are there any other small LED back lit mechanical keyboards aside from Deck?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Varenyk*


Can't decide between these two.
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/produc...&pid=fc200rlab
http://www.deckkeyboards.com/product...products_id=30

Deck has LEDs, but unusual design.
Tenkeyless has no LEDs, but better design and possibly superior wrist comfort.

Are there any other small LED back lit mechanical keyboards aside from Deck?


I'd personally go for the Deck if you want/need Backlighting.

Otherwise, save cash and get the Leopold.

Also, WSAD Keyboard v1 - First Impressions done by myself.

Also, I fixed the issue in the OP with Leopolds.


----------



## gonX

I spilled soda in my Ducky yesterday, and now some of the keys are kind hard to press down (and are slow on the way up).

I noticed that it's plate mounted - how would I go about removing a switch and cleaning it internally? It has MX Browns in it.


----------



## csm725

I reckon you'd have to unscrew the plate from the PCB and dismantle them there.


----------



## gonX

From what I can see, there is no screw attaching the plate to the PCB?


----------



## ch_123

There wouldn't be. Even if there was, the switches are mounted onto the plate, and soldered to the PCB behind it, so you probably wouldn't be able to separate them anyway.

How's your soldering iron skills?


----------



## KipH

Use a solvent to wash it as is? Something must be safe to clean it all.


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


Use a solvent to wash it as is? Something must be safe to clean it all.


I guess I could pour Acetone into the switches, and leave it for a week in the window?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ch_123*


There wouldn't be. Even if there was, the switches are mounted onto the plate, and soldered to the PCB behind it, so you probably wouldn't be able to separate them anyway.

How's your soldering iron skills?


Not that great. But I would be willing to try some fun stuff.


----------



## Tator Tot

I do believe acetone would damage the plastic of the switches.


----------



## ch_123

Isopropanol or distilled water would be the ones to use.


----------



## ripster

Actually I recommend checking out this guide.










Definitely a no-no on the acetone.

If it's REALLY bad this works.


----------



## Xazen

I'm looking for a wrist rest for a tenkeyless keyboard, however all of them seem to be to large for that. The only ones that I could find that are sized for a tenkeyless are to expensive for me as they are made of leather.

Anyone know of a cheaper wrist rest for a tenkeyless?


----------



## Crazy9000

You could get two mouse ones, one for each wrist.

http://www.amazon.com/3M-Leatherette-Antimicrobial-Protection-WR305LE/dp/B0016OV5MQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1312502487&sr=8-2]Amazon.com: 3M Gel Wrist Rest, Black Leatherette, 6.9 Inch Length, Antimicrobial Product Protection (WR305LE): Office Products[/URL]


----------



## csm725

This or a custom wooden one by Eric Barney
Shoot him a PM here on OCN


----------



## Xazen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;14466789*
> You could get two mouse ones, one for each wrist.


Thats not a bad idea.

I was also thinking about taking a longer gel one and cutting it to size. I'm not sure how well that would work out though and if it would fray or something on the side that I cut.


----------



## Crazy9000

The gel will ooze out a bit, I'd advise against it.


----------



## jpm804

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Xazen*


I'm looking for a wrist rest for a tenkeyless keyboard, however all of them seem to be to large for that. The only ones that I could find that are sized for a tenkeyless are to expensive for me as they are made of leather.

Anyone know of a cheaper wrist rest for a tenkeyless?


I recommend the ducky.. still kinda pricey but not as much as a filco or elitekeyboard 3 star one at $70 bucks.

Its $30 shipped from Qtan a seller on Geekhack, here is a pic:


----------



## KipH

I would actually recommend distilled water. Best solvent known to man. But after it gets dissolved soda into it it will not be dielectric any more. Make sure its very dry before you plug it back in.


----------



## csm725

I still highly recommend shooting a PM to Eric Barney if you want a product that oozes quality.


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


I would actually recommend distilled water. Best solvent known to man. But after it gets dissolved soda into it it will not be dielectric any more. Make sure its very dry before you plug it back in.


So fill up a tub with distilled water? I think I could do that...


----------



## KipH

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


So fill up a tub with distilled water? I think I could do that...


HEY! Never do anything I say unless you check with reliable sources, or sign a disclaimer. By reading this you absolve me of all fault and harm.


----------



## gonX

I would never blame anyone for my faults







I had originally planned on buying a new keyboard as well, but I am going to assume that I will spill soda into my keyboard more than once, so I kinda need to know how to clean the switches out.

Isopropyl and Windex are both out of the question since that's supposed to degrease the switches as well, which I don't want.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *gonX*


I would never blame anyone for my faults







I had originally planned on buying a new keyboard as well, but I am going to assume that I will spill soda into my keyboard more than once, so I kinda need to know how to clean the switches out.

Isopropyl and Windex are both out of the question since that's supposed to degrease the switches as well, which I don't want.


Do as Ripster said if it's just a few switches. Otherwise; tub'o'water is the way to go.


----------



## gonX

It's definitely multiple switches. Almost painful to type on.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;14478977*
> It's definitely multiple switches. Almost painful to type on.


Give it a good soak overnight, and then make sure to to let it dry properly.


----------



## KipH

I missed that Rip had posted, sorry. Follow that first. His guide is great at telling what NOT to do and that it would be stupid to do it.

"Not even a tub of distilled water is recommended except if all else fails. At the least it'll remove the grease and at the worst rust out the switches." As a last resort eh, I like them odds. Just dry it as quick as you can then lube it up. Lube is always a good idea


----------



## Crazy9000

It won't rust anything. You need time and continued exposure for that, soaking overnight will do nothing of the sort.

It will probably remove some grease, but I think that's unavoidable with any method that will actually clean everything out.


----------



## gonX

I'll give it a good soak soonish. I need to find some distilled water first, though.


----------



## ripster

I think the distilled water thing is overblown. Just tap water is fine for a used keyboard. It's not like a brand new PCB is a dust controlled fab.

A 99% isopropyl alchohol tub wouldn't be that spendy but don't smoke if you use this method.


----------



## gonX

I have 93% isopropyl. Anything higher requires a license in Denmark to acquire legally...

I'll try a tub of water, probably with some isopropyl added. I'm a bit cautious about degreasing the switches too much...


----------



## ripster

Tub of 99% Alchohol. Hydrogen Peroxide. A sprinkle of Oxyclean....

And......a Anti-Terrorist SWAT team will be bursting through your door.....


----------



## Tator Tot

I'd almost pay....to see that happen.

WASD Keyboard announced that their Semi-Custom Keyboard v1 is now available for $120 with plenty of customization options.


----------



## KipH

I looked at the link for WASD. Seems like they put that page up too fast. I have a hard time seeing any pictures with the different layouts and then there is this:

"This modification is preferred by typers who usually do not bottom out their key strokes. The dampeners will cut away extra noise and shock from bottoming out."

If I don't bottom out why do I need a device to soften bottom out noise?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


I looked at the link for WASD. Seems like they put that page up too fast. I have a hard time seeing any pictures with the different layouts and then there is this:

"This modification is preferred by typers who usually do not bottom out their key strokes. The dampeners will cut away extra noise and shock from bottoming out."

If I don't bottom out why do I need a device to soften bottom out noise?


You didn't check the images then.

It also doesn't require you to buy the dampeners? So why are you complaining?

Many typers bottom out so it makes the sound softer and you get a more cushioned impact.


----------



## KipH

Oy Vey. I did not see that image. It looks like an empty box on my monitor. Ops.

I was just pointing out that it would make more sense if it said NOT for typers who don't need at as they don't bottom out, but its great for all the rest of us hammer and peckers.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


Oy Vey. I did not see that image. It looks like an empty box on my monitor. Ops.

I was just pointing out that it would make more sense if it said NOT for typers who don't need at as they don't bottom out, but its great for all the rest of us hammer and peckers.


General typists are more used to domes & switches by now; and thus used to bottoming out. For that matter; even those on mech's are generally concerned with GWAM and not proper technique.


----------



## bheussler

Before I read this article I knew nothing about mechanicals. Afterwards, I was informed enough to make a purchase! Thanks You!!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bheussler;14498078*
> Before I read this article I knew nothing about mechanicals. Afterwards, I was informed enough to make a purchase! Thanks You!!


I'm glad it helped


----------



## JBVsev

How good are WASD keyboards?

I want a mechanical keyboard, and I think I want one with Cherry MX Brown switches. I'll be using it to game, and do school work (mostly programming, a little actual writing).

I like the customization aspect of they Semi-Custom board, but I haven't seen much on WASD keyboards on here. I was also considering getting a Filco, or maybe a Ducky (the Shine is so tempting, unless it's super expensive).

Edit: I just read the First Impressions you wrote for the WASD, and it seems like it might be a good choice. I haven't taken a look at how customizable it is, but I'll do that once I get home. Been wasting enough time at work already







.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JBVsev*


How good are WASD keyboards?

I want a mechanical keyboard, and I think I want one with Cherry MX Brown switches. I'll be using it to game, and do school work (mostly programming, a little actual writing).

I like the customization aspect of they Semi-Custom board, but I haven't seen much on WASD keyboards on here. I was also considering getting a Filco, or maybe a Ducky (the Shine is so tempting, unless it's super expensive).

Edit: I just read the First Impressions you wrote for the WASD, and it seems like it might be a good choice. I haven't taken a look at how customizable it is, but I'll do that once I get home. Been wasting enough time at work already







.


For a first timer's mechanical keyboard, it's priced very well and gives you a lot of options. I would easily recommend it.

The only thing is that you should be semi-proficient at touch typing. As the white keycaps are the hardest to see the lettering on. The blacks being the easier. Though it's still not as easy as any of the printed keyboards.


----------



## JBVsev

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


For a first timer's mechanical keyboard, it's priced very well and gives you a lot of options. I would easily recommend it.

The only thing is that you should be semi-proficient at touch typing. As the white keycaps are the hardest to see the lettering on. The blacks being the easier. Though it's still not as easy as any of the printed keyboards.


Didn't notice that the letters are not printed at first. Thought it was just those colours. Is there no option for printed keys with WASD?

How does it compare to Filco and Ducky? I really like the look of the Ducky Shine (love backlit keyboards though it's not a deal breaker) and the Filco Ninja something-something (forget the name...).


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *JBVsev*


Didn't notice that the letters are not printed at first. Thought it was just those colours. Is there no option for printed keys with WASD?

How does it compare to Filco and Ducky? I really like the look of the Ducky Shine (love backlit keyboards though it's not a deal breaker) and the Filco Ninja something-something (forget the name...).


They are printed, it's just that the keycaps have the letters etched into them. So they are harder to see than a backlit keyboard, or most pad-printed ones.

The end result looks really good.

It's got the same overall build quality as a Filco Majestouch 2 or Ducky DK9000/DK9008 keyboard. 
The only discernable difference I could find is that the WASD Keyboards casing is thicker than Ducky or Filco's.


----------



## csm725

*discernable. Come on man!


----------



## Tator Tot

I have no idea what you're talking about


----------



## JBVsev

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


They are printed, it's just that the keycaps have the letters etched into them. So they are harder to see than a backlit keyboard, or most pad-printed ones.

The end result looks really good.

It's got the same overall build quality as a Filco Majestouch 2 or Ducky DK9000/DK9008 keyboard. 
The only discernable difference I could find is that the WASD Keyboards casing is thicker than Ducky or Filco's.


I'm almost sold on the WASD at this point. Thank you for your responses!

I took a look at the full-on Custom keyboard, and I like all the options it has for colors, but if it doesn't look good (after I set it all up), I'll end up getting the Semi instead.

I'm gonna wait until the Shine's available, and based on it's price I'll probably make my decision then.


----------



## gonX

I can't remember if I posted in here about my keyboard or if it was in the club, but the board is working great now that I put it in a bucket of water







There were some problems with the D button at first, but it seems to have gone away now.


----------



## ripster

Aw.... shoulda taken pics.

There's something funny about a keyboard in a bucket of water.


----------



## wasdkeyboards

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69;14491135*
> I looked at the link for WASD. Seems like they put that page up too fast. I have a hard time seeing any pictures with the different layouts and then there is this:
> 
> "This modification is preferred by typers who usually do not bottom out their key strokes. The dampeners will cut away extra noise and shock from bottoming out."
> 
> If I don't bottom out why do I need a device to soften bottom out noise?


Sorry, if it's confusing. I'll make some edits to make it more clear tomorrow.

The keyword there is "usually." Most people still bottom out a fair amount of their keystroke. Even if you only bottom out 10% of the time, at 60WPM, you would hear 30 clacks every minute or once every 2 seconds. 5% of the time, 15 clacks a minute or once every 4 seconds.

I'm working on some videos to demonstrate the difference.


----------



## Tatakai All

I'm having the hardest time finding some color key caps for my 9008-G2, any suggestions?


----------



## csm725

WASDKB/KBC on eBay?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;14529256*
> I'm having the hardest time finding some color key caps for my 9008-G2, any suggestions?


WASD Keyboards would be my suggestion.
You can send him a pm if you have anything complicated or special you want done.

He's a great guy and should be able to suit your needs for a very reasonable price.

Alternatively, KBC Keycaps on Ebay. Usually about $35 shipped as well.


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14529290*
> WASD Keyboards would be my suggestion.
> You can send him a pm if you have anything complicated or special you want done.
> 
> He's a great guy and should be able to suit your needs for a very reasonable price.
> 
> Alternatively, KBC Keycaps on Ebay. Usually about $35 shipped as well.


Much appreciated!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;14529313*
> Much appreciated!


No prob


----------



## csm725

I said the same thing just before you and got ignored?


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725;14529407*
> I said the same thing just before you and got ignored?


Well at least now you know how to get them. I contacted wasdkeyboards via pm and have already been replied back to. If you don't want to go the ebay route than I suggest you pm him.

*EDIT: Here's the pm he just sent me, maybe it'll help you out.

http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.p...eycap-set.html

Try that. Those are complete blank sets. If you were just trying to mix and match, use the Custom Keyboard Designer and make what you need and add any engraving you want at the same time. Then click Add to Cart to get the Add Keycaps Only option. Custom keycap sets are $49.99 with free US shipping. Blank sets are $39.99 with free shipping.*


----------



## csm725

Wait, what?


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wasdkeyboards;14528731*
> Sorry, if it's confusing. I'll make some edits to make it more clear tomorrow.
> 
> The keyword there is "usually."


Oh I know what it is and what you mean to say. I just think you have it backwards. People like touch typists don't need something to help them, they are already quiet as they don't bottom out. The dampening would be more needed for "normal" people like me who hammer the keys and make lots of noise.

And as for the key layout pictures, just outline them or make them darker. Its just hard to notice them there.

I have actually recommended your boards to 3 people already and I have gotten the same comment from most people who see it. It goes like this: "WOW. what a cool idea, I can make it any colour I want and.... OH! How do I change the base colour. The colour of the body?"

Any plans on making other body colours?


----------



## Shinigami~

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69;14529900*
> Oh I know what it is and what you mean to say. I just think you have it backwards. People like touch typists don't need something to help them, they are already quiet as they don't bottom out. The dampening would be more needed for "normal" people like me who hammer the keys and make lots of noise.
> 
> And as for the key layout pictures, just outline them or make them darker. Its just hard to notice them there.
> 
> I have actually recommended your boards to 3 people already and I have gotten the same comment from most people who see it. It goes like this: "WOW. what a cool idea, I can make it any colour I want and.... OH! How do I change the base colour. The colour of the body?"
> 
> Any plans on making other body colours?


I love the site as well and just bought a board from them, BUT i would LOVEit even more if i could change the base color for sure! thats the firs thing I asked. Would love it if we all could then i'd never have to order boards from japan and search all over that place.


----------



## JBVsev

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


Oh I know what it is and what you mean to say. I just think you have it backwards. People like touch typists don't need something to help them, they are already quiet as they don't bottom out. The dampening would be more needed for "normal" people like me who hammer the keys and make lots of noise.

And as for the key layout pictures, just outline them or make them darker. Its just hard to notice them there.

I have actually recommended your boards to 3 people already and I have gotten the same comment from most people who see it. It goes like this: "WOW. what a cool idea, I can make it any colour I want and.... OH! How do I change the base colour. The colour of the body?"

Any plans on making other body colours?


Outlining the keys for the fully custom keyboard would be amazing.

I took at look at it, and at first I thought it was just blank, but then I noticed the keys when I clicked around. If there was an outline of the keys, along with the letters on them, it could probably speed up the process quite a bit.

Edit: Does WASD ship internationally? I just heard about the Das student deal and found out they don't ship outside of America, so I figure I'd check about WASD as well.


----------



## wasdkeyboards

We've been getting a few requests for different base colors and this is definitely a possibility in the future. But again, like most other requests, will take some time. We do not fully assemble the keyboards here. The base is pre-assembled. We put on the stabilizers, keycaps, and do any custom engraving.

Right now, we're hoping to get some white bases in about 6 months.

A exciting note is that we will be getting some 105-key ISO layout keyboards with our next shipment which is due to arrive in about 3-4 months. Many people were asking for this as well and luckily it was something we were able to easily get.

@Kip69
I changed the wording a little to "usually do bottom out". I was thinking at first that people that bottom out all the time should not have them to help them get rid of their habit. You can't ride with training wheels forever









@JBVsev
Yes, we do ship internationally. Add the keyboard to your shopping cart to get pricing with the shipping calculator on the shopping cart page.


----------



## csm725

You really need a vendor forum or something. It's not nice to derail every thread.








E - Yes I know the vendor status costs money, but I mean your business is booming and more questions will come.


----------



## Tator Tot

Well this thread is more than appropriate for such matters.

More so since it's great to see a rep keep such 1 on 1 contact with customers.


----------



## csm725

Don't think I hate WASDKB!
This is a mechanical keyboard guide on how they work. Move the discussion to a new thread / the Club.


----------



## ch_123

Not really, most of the time it's just people looking for advice on what keyboards they should buy.


----------



## scorpscarx

I guess this is the best place to ask this, wall-o-txt incoming:

I'm kind of at a loss. I just ordered a Leopold Otaku but I did so with the intent to use Latkey glow in the dark stickers, but Latkey is unresponsive and I had to do a paypal chargeback.

Now, I am a great touch typist so it's not really bothering me and I made the right choice with these browns.

The only thing I have a problem with is when typing passwords for certain sites that won't let you copy paste and the mental stretching getting used to unprinted keys.

I want to order some WASDKB keys but I'm not sure if an unprinted, lasered only lettering is what I wan't to get, it seems like you wouldn't be able to read those very easily. On the flipside it would more closesly match the sleekness of this Otaku board.

Should I try to trade this/ order WASD keys?

I'm left slightly lacking without the glow stickers which were going to fill the illumination and password entering voids for me.

Which color in the WASD line up makes the etching the easiest to read in low light circumstances?


----------



## Tator Tot

Since I own all of the colors, and it's a cloudy day with no lights on in the house; I think it's a perfect chance for me to look









I'd have to go with Black, they're the easiest with white being the hardest.

Red is a close second as it is the second darkest color.


----------



## scorpscarx

Thanks Tator, you are always so helpful







.

While $50 is pricey for me right now, I'm going to order a full set in black with a red escape key and the numbpad set-up to give me some extras including a red WASD. Can you compare the texture to Leopold keys? I love the way these feel.

This in addition to all these nice blank Leopolds will give me all the options I could want, I don't want a lot of colors just some nice keys.

I'm apprehensive even after reading through the Geekhack guides, if I plan to only pull the small keys for now, I don't need to lube any of them right? That is just for stabilizer bars?

Arial, 9pt all the way.


----------



## Tator Tot

Only longer keys with Costar sabilizers need lubing.

Also, the WASD Keys feel a bit different "texture" wise. Only because they're engraved and the lettering is slightly raised at first. When they get more used, the lettering wears down.


----------



## Bluescreen_Of_Death

Just wanted to thank you, Manyak. You saved my Das Professional S Silent from certain death.

Wife spilled apple juice all over the keyboard. Followed the spill instructions and it has made a full recovery!


----------



## beatrix

Hey guys, can you recommend me a good mechanical keyboard that's available in the UK?
I'd rather have a full-size, as silent as possible, fully featured, lots of buttons, wireless keyboard. Price is not an issue if it's worth it, but under $100 to $120 would be good.

I was first looking into Logitech, but then realized that they don't make mechanical keyboards.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Tator Tot

There's not a wireless option besides the U9W, but it's not that good of a board.

The Keyboard Co sell's Filco's which are good options.

Kustom PC's has them, Zowie Celeritis, Thermaltake Meka G1, Mionix Zibal 60 or OZONE Strike.

I'd avoid the Celeritis & Strike because both use the Big Asian enter key; which is a rather funky outfit.

On the other hand, the Mionix Zibal 60 is a nice board. Good green backlighting and overall a decent board for the price. 
Thermaltake Meka G1 is actually built on the Costar CST-104 design; more or less the same as Filco's but it offers a USB Hub, Audio Ports, NKRO, FN Key on the left (instead of Windows) and Media Keys.

Thermaltake is the best option in my opinion. If you like MX-Blacks.

Personally, I don't mind typing on them. The force required is much in line with many new rubber dome keyboards. They're also the quietest switches for Cherry-MX Lineup.


----------



## narmour

I recently bought a Filco and I absolutely love it. It cost around Â£125 after tax and shipping.

Full size and all.


----------



## Tator Tot

Filco's are nice.

The only "downside" to most gaming Mechanical's is that the large majority now use MX-Black switches. 
Which most people want MX-Browns.

Still though, I don't mind blacks.


----------



## beatrix

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


There's not a wireless option besides the U9W, but it's not that good of a board.

The Keyboard Co sell's Filco's which are good options.

Kustom PC's has them, Zowie Celeritis, Thermaltake Meka G1, Mionix Zibal 60 or OZONE Strike.

I'd avoid the Celeritis & Strike because both use the Big Asian enter key; which is a rather funky outfit.

On the other hand, the Mionix Zibal 60 is a nice board. Good green backlighting and overall a decent board for the price. 
Thermaltake Meka G1 is actually built on the Costar CST-104 design; more or less the same as Filco's but it offers a USB Hub, Audio Ports, NKRO, FN Key on the left (instead of Windows) and Media Keys.

Thermaltake is the best option in my opinion. If you like MX-Blacks.

Personally, I don't mind typing on them. The force required is much in line with many new rubber dome keyboards. They're also the quietest switches for Cherry-MX Lineup.


wow! Thanks a lot.
I'm currently on a Logitech Wave but that's too noisy and difficult to use.

I found a video on YouTube that reviews a few of these keyboards, the Tt G1 seems very nice except that it's very loud! Have you had experience with something that's silent?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *beatrix*


wow! Thanks a lot.
I'm currently on a Logitech Wave but that's too noisy and difficult to use.

I found a video on YouTube that reviews a few of these keyboards, the Tt G1 seems very nice except that it's very loud! Have you had experience with something that's silent?


It's "loud" but it's really not that bad since it's only "loud" if you bottom out.

The best option for "quieting" a mechanical is to buy Soft Landing Pads or the Cherry MX Rubber Dampeners 

Unfortunately, neither company in the UK offers those.


----------



## Eric Barney

I put the silencer pads (From Elitekeyboards) on my Filco Ninja. That does make a HUGE difference in the noise level. No help on the cordless though...


----------



## Casualty

I just now heard of mechanical keyboards and after using a friends I started looking into getting one.

I feel as though cherry browns would be the best for me as I do coding and gaming. The keyboard needs to be somewhat heavy as well as I have keyboard slanted at all times and my keyboard get pushed up from typing/gaming. My price range is about 140 dollars max and I'm not a picky.

Thanks in advance


----------



## csm725

Filco Ninja Tenkeyless/104 on Amazon in MX Browns


----------



## Casualty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725;14587395*
> Filco Ninja Tenkeyless/104 on Amazon in MX Browns


It's kind of light weight do you have a problem with it sliding on you at all?


----------



## csm725

No, it's a really heavy, sturdy, well-built keyboard.


----------



## ch_123

It feels quite hefty relative to its size.


----------



## JBVsev

How do the Browns feel compared to Blacks and Blues?

I can't find a keyboard anywhere with Browns for me to try out, but I tried the Steelseries 6vg2 or whatever with Blacks, and absolutely hated it. But I really liked the clickity-clackiness of the Blues on the Razer Blackwidow.

Is the main reason people recommend Browns for gaming the fact that you can double tap either?


----------



## gonX

I find the only reason to buy browns is to have reliable double tapping. They're very much like blacks, except a tad lighter and with a slight friction half way through the switch travel. I can't recommend them if you don't like the blacks at all.


----------



## Tator Tot

There's a few MX-Brown options out there. 
Filco's are a bit overpriced for what you get.

Das Model S Professional Silent has MX-Browns and a USB Hub in it. It's NKRO (like any good board should be) and the cable is plenty long (6.6 Feet / 2 Meter)
- If you have a student email or student ID you can get a student discount from Das bringing the price to ~$100

There's also the

  Zowie Gear Celeritas , which comes with MX-Browns, NKRO, Ability to change the "Windows"-key to "Ctrl", Zowie RTR*, multimedia controls, and a long cable.

The Zowie RTR is basically a function (that only works when connected to PS/2 ports) that allows a single keypress to be registered 2x, 4x, 6x, or 8x. 
So in an RTS, a single key can be hit, but it would tell the computer it was actually pressed 8 times if you had it on the 8x mode.

I'd take either of those boards over a Filco. Weight between all the keyboards is about the same though.


----------



## ripster

The Leopold's price in the OP is wrong. It's $109.


----------



## Tator Tot

I did a quick update to reflect the price change.

The increase is rather disappointing though. Considering it's almost cheaper to import (depending on how the USD is doing this week though.)


----------



## beatrix

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


It's "loud" but it's really not that bad since it's only "loud" if you bottom out.

The best option for "quieting" a mechanical is to buy Soft Landing Pads or the Cherry MX Rubber Dampeners 

Unfortunately, neither company in the UK offers those.


Hi again,

I think I'll get a MX Blue switch keyboard with one of these sound dampeners (I'll ask one of my American friends to buy them for me). Can you tell me which one works better?

Also, do you think that the Razer BlackWidow is a good choice for a MX blue keyboard? Can you recommend me a few good blue ones?

Also, do you think I should go for a brown one as they're not clicky like blue ones? I couldn't notice a difference in their loudness in a few videos that I watched, they were all very loud.


----------



## stratmaster458

I have an Apple Extended Keyboard II that I am gonna adapt to using USB with a teensy++ AVR board. I would like to dye the keys black and paint the casing white to match my NZXT Phantom as well as put blue LEDs under the keys.

Anyone here dye beige keys balck before? if So I wanna know how they cam out and how well the lettering comes through the black dye


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *beatrix*


Hi again,

I think I'll get a MX Blue switch keyboard with one of these sound dampeners (I'll ask one of my American friends to buy them for me). Can you tell me which one works better?

Also, do you think that the Razer BlackWidow is a good choice for a MX blue keyboard? Can you recommend me a few good blue ones?

Also, do you think I should go for a brown one as they're not clicky like blue ones? I couldn't notice a difference in their loudness in a few videos that I watched, they were all very loud.


If you can, I'd get a Das Keyboard or a X-Armor U9BL. Better boards than the Razer due to having NKRO.

As for the dampeners, the foam pads work better in my eyes. They just feel nicer.

The rubber standard ones are a bit harder so it feels more like standard bottoming out.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *stratmaster458*


I have an Apple Extended Keyboard II that I am gonna adapt to using USB with a teensy++ AVR board. I would like to dye the keys black and paint the casing white to match my NZXT Phantom as well as put blue LEDs under the keys.

Anyone here dye beige keys balck before? if So I wanna know how they cam out and how well the lettering comes through the black dye


Check out the Guide written by our VCheez

It comes out pretty well.

Though, if the lettering is Black the key comes out almost a solid black color. Sometimes it's like a Topre Board but that's not very often.


----------



## Naranja

Hi, I'm thinking about getting the das professional. I was wondering if you guys would recommend any other cherry blue switch keyboards. I type and use my computer quite often and play rts/fps games a couple times a week. Thanks.


----------



## beatrix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14595772*
> If you can, I'd get a Das Keyboard or a X-Armor U9BL. Better boards than the Razer due to having NKRO.
> 
> As for the dampeners, the foam pads work better in my eyes. They just feel nicer.
> 
> The rubber standard ones are a bit harder so it feels more like standard bottoming out.


I now so much want the X-Armor U9BL, however, I can't find it anywhere in the UK.







There only place I was able to find it was the US Ebay, which they had ridiculous shipping charges. The cheapest price that I found was around £105, including a very slow (one month!) shipping, (+ a $50 option for one-week shipping).

Do you know any other stores that deliver to the UK?

Thanks


----------



## clownfart

Just got my poker, very quiet.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8gDTwBNEo4[/ame[/URL]]


----------



## ripster

At least the Filco didn't ping. That would have been a bummer.


----------



## teraflame

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Naranja*


Hi, I'm thinking about getting the das professional. I was wondering if you guys would recommend any other cherry blue switch keyboards. I type and use my computer quite often and play rts/fps games a couple times a week. Thanks.


WASD Keyboards are very nice. There's a cheaper semi-custom version for $120

http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/


----------



## Naranja

whoa wasd is pretty customizable, i'll look more into it. does anyone know how much the das student discount is?


----------



## csm725

Price ends up $100


----------



## ilyama

Hello guys !

I want to buy my very first mechnical keyboard but I dont know wich one to choose ...
It's only for FPS games so I want red switch









I have max 130 dollars...

Do you have some ideas ?

Thanks guys !


----------



## MikeRELI

so I just got my daskeyboard....

sex-to-my-fingers. throwing my blackwidow in the garbage (since thats where I think it was born)


----------



## scorpscarx

ilyama if you want back-lighting, wait for Ducky Shine through our very own Tank Guys.

If not buy a Leopold from elite keyboards, just get a brown feels soo good for fps gaming. You can't even get a red Filco off amazon right now.

Mike cannibalize it for the blue cherries =/


----------



## Grief

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MikeRELI;14606236*
> so I just got my daskeyboard....
> 
> sex-to-my-fingers. throwing my blackwidow in the garbage (since thats where I think it was born)


love it.

Good decision, stepped way up from the black widow.


----------



## ilyama

Hello

thanks for the help

I dont need back lightning, I just want to try a mechanical keyboard with red switch ...

What do you think about the PLU ML-G3000 NKRO Edition ?

Leopold is it ok for "only" 130 dollars
Wich Leopold can I take ?

THanks!


----------



## scorpscarx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ilyama;14608486*
> Hello
> thanks for the help
> I dont need back lightning, I just want to try a mechanical keyboard with red switch ...
> What do you think about the PLU ML-G3000 NKRO Edition ?
> Leopold is it ok for "only" 130 dollars
> Wich Leopold can I take ?
> THanks!


If you are in Asia or something it might be easier to get a Cherry Red keyboard but here in the US it's very hard, if you have never tried a Brown(like some Leopolds) they are pretty similar to red but have a slight tactile bump which I actually prefer in all types of games.

Feels good to just play with the switch and it's more interesting than it being completely linear to me, also I can double/ triple/ quadruple megatap very fast with it as well it's really not an issue.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ilyama*


Hello guys !

I want to buy my very first mechnical keyboard but I dont know wich one to choose ...
It's only for FPS games so I want red switch









I have max 130 dollars...

Do you have some ideas ?

Thanks guys !


Overclock.net will have a DK1008 with Reds available towards the end of the month (August 25th is when the shipment is expected to arrive.)

It'll be less than $130, you may wish to consider it.


----------



## ilyama

Hi

I can't have all those keyboards...

I can have this

NOPPO choc mini Mx Red

KBC Poker Mx-Red

PLU ML-87 Mx-Red

Which one is the best for you guys !?

Thanks !


----------



## Tator Tot

The KBC Poker or the Noppoo Choc Mini 82 would be the best choices.

The Choc Mini does NKRO over USB in Linux & Windows. Mac OS X will have issues with the keyboard though.

The KBC Poker is another good option but the PBC mounted switches will feel very soft and the board is very light in comparison to others.

I would choose either one based on which layout you like the most.

The PLU ML-87 is a good board, but it doesn't have NKRO so I would avoid it.


----------



## Necrodox

What's up guys, been looking into getting a mechanical keyboard to accommodate my new build ($3200 rig). The theme of my build is red/black/white so I would like a keyboard to kind of match the theme.

I'm looking for a RED backlit keyboard, this is pretty much essential.

From what I can see (I'm a keyboard newbie, mind you) Deck and Das come highly recommended. Das doesn't seem to have a backlit keyboard so Deck seems to be my only option (from what I can tell atleast).

Do you guys know of any other quality brands that can provide me with a red backlit keyboard?

Main use; moderate gaming, a lot of typing lol.

Typing comes first, gaming second.

I'm also trying to make sure I'm good on tactile vs linear.

Linear - need to push the key all the way down.
Tactile - allows you to push half way and move to other keys faster.

Thanks in advance guys, I appreciate any help.


----------



## Tator Tot

Linear Cherry MX Switches allow you to push the switch half way down and it actuates. The same as Tactile or Clicky Cherry MX switches.

As for a Red LED Backlit board; I would suggest waiting a bit for Cooler Master's offering to come out.

It should be more affordable than the Deck; feature the same Cherry MX-Black switches, but offer more features.

Build quality and details have yet to be announced but at Computex, they said it would come out this year.


----------



## ch_123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Necrodox;14626022*
> I'm also trying to make sure I'm good on tactile vs linear.
> 
> Linear - need to push the key all the way down.
> Tactile - allows you to push half way and move to other keys faster.


Tactile - There's a "bump" during the travel of the key to let you know that you've pressed the key. (Like most keyboards)

Linear - No bump in the travel of the key, the key just gets progressively stiffer to press until it bottoms out.

You can have linear switches that do not need to be bottomed out, and tactile switches that do need to be bottomed out (e.g. rubber domes)


----------



## HWI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ilyama;14614164*
> Hi
> 
> I can't have all those keyboards...
> 
> I can have this
> 
> NOPPO choc mini Mx Red
> 
> KBC Poker Mx-Red
> 
> PLU ML-87 Mx-Red
> 
> Which one is the best for you guys !?
> 
> Thanks !


I've got the Noppo Choc Mini, it's a sweet board. It's got a nice small layout (even smaller than a normal tenkeyless), but it still retains numpad functionality, it has media keys, and has NKRO over usb.


----------



## Necrodox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14626065*
> Linear Cherry MX Switches allow you to push the switch half way down and it actuates. The same as Tactile or Clicky Cherry MX switches.
> 
> As for a Red LED Backlit board; I would suggest waiting a bit for Cooler Master's offering to come out.
> 
> It should be more affordable than the Deck; feature the same Cherry MX-Black switches, but offer more features.
> 
> Build quality and details have yet to be announced but at Computex, they said it would come out this year.


Gottcha', thanks for the insight. That CoolerMaster board looks interesting, I suppose I'll wait it out to see what companies can offer in the future.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ch_123;14626113*
> Tactile - There's a "bump" during the travel of the key to let you know that you've pressed the key. (Like most keyboards)
> 
> Linear - No bump in the travel of the key, the key just gets progressively stiffer to press until it bottoms out.
> 
> You can have linear switches that do not need to be bottomed out, and tactile switches that do need to be bottomed out (e.g. rubber domes)


Understood, definitely some useful information thanks!

+ Rep to ya'.


----------



## KipH

I did like the Coolermaster boards at computex. They have more than black switches planned, but there may be regional availability. My guy said there may be Red but probably not for north American distribution. I will let you know if I see one here.


----------



## Izvire

Selling my Steelseries 7G tomorrow.
Already ordered myself A Filco tenkeyless with MX Blacks though










Can't wait to get it, especially when I have to use this Logitech 15€ keyboard while waiting.


----------



## ilyama

Hello guys !









I'm asking if you can help me on a little thing ...








I need help from a noppoo choc mini owners ...

I want to buy one but I need to see/know one last thing ...

SOmeone could measure the both heights that I have drawn on the picture?











Thanks !


----------



## clip+

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69;14627440*
> I did like the Coolermaster boards at computex. They have more than black switches planned, but there may be regional availability. My guy said there may be Red but probably not for north American distribution. I will let you know if I see one here.


Which coolermaster keyboards are you talking abuout?


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *clip+;14638238*
> Which coolermaster keyboards are you talking abuout?


Here as posted above

Or check my sig for lots of pictures in my Computex report. Sorry they are still wrong way up. I will get back to trying to fix it.


----------



## Andeus

I've been reading on mechanical keyboards for hours the past week, and I could never find something that I like 100%.

I want one for both gaming and typing, have a wrist-rest and backlighting since I often game/chat in the dark. Also not Cherry MX Blues, because I'd like to keep the noise as low as possible. A bonus would be a single row of extra keys/macro keys up to 5 max in a single row.

Only Black widow was close to what I wanted, except for the Blues MX and well...the Razer quality/overprice...

...and right when I was about to give up and probably settle for a 6Gv2 I see the Coolermaster pic on the post above and it was like a godsend. Definitely gonna wait and see how good that turns out. Probably with Brown MX switches. Or Red. Hm or black.

Dammit.


----------



## ripster

The Blue line is definitely higher than the yellow line by I'd say 2mm.


----------



## vash625

I've been in search of my first mechanical keyboard lately and need some help.

I've come across a few keyboards that are appealing to me, but not quite sure what I want. I do lots of gaming and spend great deals playing, in addition to doing lots of typing. At the moment the blacks and browns seem to fit my needs.

Most of the keyboards though are using blacks, but ive heard these are not ideal for extended use and probably will tire your fingers or what some have said, "hurt".

With the great amount of time I spend using keyboards, I am looking for input in those claims. Any assistance?


----------



## Crazy9000

I couldn't see blacks tiring you out much more then a standard rubber dome keyboard does.


----------



## vash625

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000;14648470*
> I couldn't see blacks tiring you out much more then a standard rubber dome keyboard does.


That's good news. Thanks for the info.


----------



## Naranja

I recently purchased a Das professional and I was wondering if anyone can comment on the key letters fading. Despite the laser etching, I have heard of a few with this problem. I have sweaty hands from time to time and was wondering if this was an issue.


----------



## ripster

Das versus Filco analysis here.

Das


----------



## Naranja

wow! thanks for the link to your thread; it's ridiculously insightful and unconventionally interesting. Now, this may be some time down the road but do you know if there's a kbc engraved keycaps as a Das keycap replacement? if so, where would that be?


----------



## ripster

See this post. Das = Filco keys in terms of shape and plastic - even the molds are the same.


----------



## GlorifiedToaster

Hey guys, my first post here on Overclock.net. Thanks for making this wonderful thread, I had never looked into keyboards so much in depth and I learned a lot from reading the OP. I think I am ready to upgrade from my MS Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000









My situation is that as a full-time developer, a part-time hacker and an occasional gamer I type anywhere between 10-14 hours a day. I've recently burned out my left pinky finger because of holding the really hard CTRL key on my keyboard for too long and now I can barely use it without pain, so I've had to bandage it up and avoid relying on it for a few days.

I'm ready to spend whatever it takes to go easy on my hands, and if it means blowing through 300 bucks for a Topre keyboard, so be it. My prob is that after looking through elitekeyboards.com there's just too much choice out there, and I was hoping you guys might advise me.

I've temporarily discounted getting a HHKB because I'm not sure I'll be able to survive without arrows, so I've been looking at the Realforce 103B or the 87U Tenkeyless.

Does anybody have experience with them? Is there anything better out there for someone who'd like to stick to regular key configurations for now? Also, why is the smaller version (87U) almost 50% more expensive than the full-blow one?

Thanks!


----------



## ripster

Custom order. And that pesky supply/demand curve.


----------



## GlorifiedToaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;14675887*
> Custom order. And that pesky supply/demand curve.


Could you give me a bit more context for this? I'm still very new to the pro keyboards universe


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GlorifiedToaster;14676667*
> Could you give me a bit more context for this? I'm still very new to the pro keyboards universe


Topre doesn't normally make the 87u. Leopold or someone with enough sway got Topre to make a run for them, and EK eventually got their hands on them.

86u is the normal board that Topre produces.


----------



## ripster

It IS puzzling though isn't it.


----------



## KipH

Would the kinesis be a good choice for him? I know they used to be mechanical, but not sure now.


----------



## JBVsev

Ended up ordering a Das with Cherry Blues.

Was flip-flopping between it and WASD. Decided that the white keys I was gonna get with WASD were probably gonna get dirty (I'm not the best at keeping my desk clean...) sooner rather than later, and with shipping and whatnot Das came up to be about $40 cheaper (no student discount sadly, as that's only for Americans).


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69;14684098*
> Would the kinesis be a good choice for him? I know they used to be mechanical, but not sure now.


The Advantage and Advantage Pro are, they use Cherry MX-Brown switches in them.

They would be a great choice for someone looking to get an ergonomic mechanical keyboard.


----------



## Algernon83

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14626065*
> Linear Cherry MX Switches allow you to push the switch half way down and it actuates. The same as Tactile or Clicky Cherry MX switches.
> 
> As for a Red LED Backlit board; I would suggest waiting a bit for Cooler Master's offering to come out.
> 
> It should be more affordable than the Deck; feature the same Cherry MX-Black switches, but offer more features.
> 
> Build quality and details have yet to be announced but at Computex, they said it would come out this year.


does anyone have any idea when the cooler master board is planned to be released?


----------



## ripster

With global warming the Cooler Master may take a while.


----------



## HometownHero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;14697529*
> With global warming the Cooler Master may take a while.


Keyboards are definitely your thing, but jokes...


----------



## ripster

...are about as bad as the mistakes in the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide.

The 3KRO Black Widow thing really should be fixed. Embarrassing.

I think he said, "schnell Mein Herr!".





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG3hkD37Ero[/ame[/URL]]

This is my earlier version, the IBM Storm Trooper.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Algernon83;14695840*
> does anyone have any idea when the cooler master board is planned to be released?


They haven't said a release date yet for the US market.

You could PM _CMCarter_ and see if he's got a rough time frame for you.


----------



## Krud

Any other mechanical keyboards without the letters on the key?
I only know of the Das and the Happy Hacker


----------



## ripster

RealForce.

Even the Black on Charcoal is almost blank.









Also see the Enter The White Ninja Filco post.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krud;14699288*
> Any other mechanical keyboards without the letters on the key?
> I only know of the Das and the Happy Hacker


Leopold "Otaku"s from EK. Or the black Realforce boards.


----------



## Krud

Hey thanks, i just ordered a Ducky DK1087 and am gonna get some blank keycaps. +rep to the non-mod


----------



## ripster

You're welcome. My mom calls me a non-mod too.


----------



## Krud

Im in 'distress' once again, im looking for blank (white) ducky keys, i can find filco ones but cant find the ducky ones.

Im looking for keys identical to this










Ducky on spacebar i love. Know where to get these keys?


----------



## ripster

That ducky part on the spacebar is gonna be tough. Otherwise these are available on Ebay under "KBC Keys".


----------



## Krud

Hummm thanks, im gonna keep looking for a ducky set for a bit

Edit: found someone on a tiwanese (sp) forum and sent him a PM, ill let you know what i find out


----------



## pagonda

Hey, when the Ducky 1087 arrives could you please tell us how the build quality is? I will probably get one when my cash comes in. People on geekhack say that it isn't built very good and that is sort of making me lean towards the filco. But then again...Geekhackers expect their keyboards to survive a nuclear fallout


----------



## ripster

Don't worry about what Geekhackers say. They are kinda ping crazy right now.


----------



## Krud

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pagonda*


Hey, when the Ducky 1087 arrives could you please tell us how the build quality is? I will probably get one when my cash comes in. People on geekhack say that it isn't built very good and that is sort of making me lean towards the filco. But then again...Geekhackers expect their keyboards to survive a nuclear fallout


For sure, ill take pics and do a write up


----------



## lowfat

Got my replacement blank white key caps from WASD today as the stock Filco ones were wearing out. Ended up breaking off one of the clips for the backspace key. But thankfully it still works pretty much perfectly with one. I must say it does look fantastic. Plus the key dampeners make is substantially quieter.


----------



## teraflame

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lowfat;14725352*
> Got my replacement blank white key caps from WASD today as the stock Filco ones were wearing out. Ended up breaking off one of the clips for the backspace key. But thankfully it still works pretty much perfectly with one. I must say it does look fantastic. Plus the key dampeners make is substantially quieter.


Can you explain the specifics on how different the o-rings are? What switches do you have?


----------



## lowfat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teraflame;14738117*
> Can you explain the specifics on how different the o-rings are? What switches do you have?


The keyboard that has them installed is using Cherry blue key switches. The key doesn't bottom out anymore, well not as hard anyways. So there is no clacking noise, just the click of the switch itself. I would say the keyboard is actually quieter than the Steelseries 7G I have, which uses Cherry blacks.


----------



## Krud

I got my ducky 1087 (cherry blacks) in yesterday, im still breaking it in a bit, also just ordered a white blank keycap set from WASD keyboards as well. That will be here next week sometime. Pics will be coming

<3


----------



## Fortunex

My Das has a slight squeak when pressing/releasing the backspace key sometimes, is there anything I can do to remedy this? Any preferred lubes or greases?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14754809*
> My Das has a slight squeak when pressing/releasing the backspace key sometimes, is there anything I can do to remedy this? Any preferred lubes or greases?


Lithium grease on the stabilizer


----------



## wizard!

Razer Blackwidow *Stealth Edition*


----------



## Tatakai All

I always found it strange that razer made the BW/U blue switches when it's supposed to be a gaming keyboard. They should of made the BW/U like this "stealth" version they're releasing the first time around.


----------



## magna224

Quite a bit of people actually like MX Blues for gaming. I enjoy ALPS more than MX Browns for gaming there is not really a true gaming switch.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All;14768688*
> I always found it strange that razer made the BW/U blue switches when it's supposed to be a gaming keyboard. They should of made the BW/U like this "stealth" version they're releasing the first time around.


Looks like the stealth also has proper 6KRO. Could be a keyboard I'll actually recommend to people in that price range for gaming.


----------



## Marin

When did the HHKB price jump happen? Haven't paid attention much.


----------



## csm725

EK decided to overprice, like two-three weeks ago Big commotion @ GH.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Marin*


When did the HHKB price jump happen? Haven't paid attention much.


Almost a month ago now. 
The price of all the Topre boards at EK jumped like crazy. 
I do believe it is now officially cheaper to import a Topre than buy domestically.

BWU - Stealth;
I want to see some testing to be sure it's actually 6KRO (or something fancy like Leopold/Sidewinder x4, Ducky, or Noppoo.)

If it is, I could recommend it then. Though; build quality issues may still persist.


----------



## csm725

Yup, like $10 cheaper using this week's JPY/USD rate.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *csm725*


Yup, like $10 cheaper using this week's JPY/USD rate.


I wonder what OCN could import Topre's for....


----------



## HWI

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I wonder what OCN could import Topre's for....










That would be cool. I've never used a Topre keyboard cause their price is so inhibitive. However, if their prices were more reasonable I'd happily buy an HHKB or 87U to try it out.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HWI*


That would be cool. I've never used a Topre keyboard cause their price is so inhibitive. However, if their prices were more reasonable I'd happily buy an HHKB or 87U to try it out.


They still wouldn't be cheap.

For reasons unknown, Topre boards are incredibly expensive no matter what.


----------



## HWI

If they could get down to $200 I could stomach it. Anything more than that and I just can't justify it, because I'm really happy with Cherry switches.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HWI*


If they could get down to $200 I could stomach it. Anything more than that and I just can't justify it, because I'm really happy with Cherry switches.


Import cost wise, it's $280-300 USD for a Realforce 104U. 
For the Realforce 103U (what American's would use) it's $220-$235 which is $10 cheaper than Elite Keyboards.

So the 103U at $200 isn't such a long shot. I doubt it would happen unless we could import directly from Topre instead of through a Vendor like Elite Keyboards does.


----------



## jpm804

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HWI;14772403*
> If they could get down to $200 I could stomach it. Anything more than that and I just can't justify it, because I'm really happy with Cherry switches.


If you dont mind used... you can sometimes find some deals on 86U and 103U at GH.

They go for ~$200 or less nowadays since the 87U's came in. I saw someone last week post a 103U for $165 which was a steal.


----------



## Crazy9000

EK had plain 103u on sale for $199 back before their price increase.


----------



## HWI

I'm wanting a tenkeyless or HHKB. I much prefer their size over a full size board.


----------



## jpm804

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HWI*


I'm wanting a tenkeyless or HHKB. I much prefer their size over a full size board.


If you can be patient, like I mentioned you can probably pick up a used 86U (which is not much different than the 87u) or HHKB used for around ~$200

Which is about what I paid for both my used 86UB and HHKB2... Its much cheaper way ( not saying 200 is cheap) to try out topres... if you dont like them the resale value is good enough you can probably get back what you paid for it since it holds its value pretty well.


----------



## HWI

Yeah, I check GH's classifieds every couple days.


----------



## Krud

Heyy! Here are some quick pics i snapped with my cell!

Ducky 1087 (Cherry MX Black) with WASDkeyboard's 87 blank white keycaps (non engraved)










































As you can see it looks awesome! caps lock / numlock still lights up around the key (see caps lock in the last pic)

Keyboard its self is awesome, feels really sturdy, heavy (good), good solid rubber grips on bottom, comes with red escape keys and WASD in lavender. Def worth considering if you are looking for a 10-keyless board.

(once my Nikon's (D3100) battery is charged i will get some better photos.)


----------



## Necrodox

I'm very tempted to take the dive and get a Razer Black Widow Dragon Age Edition, that red backlight man!

I'm just worried about those damn keys, I hear they like to press on one another.


----------



## godofdeath

you need to add in the fc5000r or w/e it is from leopold now up at EK


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


you need to add in the fc5000r or w/e it is from leopold now up at EK


Will do. I need to add in the new version of the BWU as well.


----------



## godofdeath

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Will do. I need to add in the new version of the BWU as well.


and the new rosewills if they ever come out


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *godofdeath*


and the new rosewills if they ever come out


They'll be out within a month or so. I can't link to them, until they are available though.

I'm gonna be adding the new Ducky's as well.


----------



## taiyoyuden

I'm looking for dark red keycaps that would fit a cherry mx brown keyboard. The ones on aliexpress look a little too bright (though affordable). Anyone know where I can find something like this?:


----------



## Tator Tot

Ebay has them, KBC Keycaps.

Though, the red keycaps are not listed right now.

From my experience, the Red PBT keycaps are darker than the ABS keycaps on Aliexpress.


----------



## sotorious

Just checking in and letting everyone know i still love my keyboard o_o


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taiyoyuden;14857258*
> I'm looking for dark red keycaps that would fit a cherry mx brown keyboard. The ones on aliexpress look a little too bright (though affordable). Anyone know where I can find something like this?:


Good God, man. I think I'm going to stop gaming.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RallyMaster;14896004*
> Good God, man. I think I'm going to stop gaming.


I'm more worried about that set of cans on his head.


----------



## sotorious

Wow that dudes keyboard looks insane.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sotorious;14899479*
> Wow that dudes keyboard looks insane.


IDK doesn't look crazy compared to mine







.


----------



## csm725

Damn Japanese space bar... how CAN you use it?


----------



## RallyMaster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


I'm more worried about that set of cans on his head.


I'm more worried about the chunkiness of the player. Becoming a fat Asian do not want.


----------



## HWI

Quote:



Originally Posted by *RallyMaster*


Good God, man. I think I'm going to stop gaming.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *RallyMaster*


I'm more worried about the chunkiness of the player. Becoming a fat Asian do not want.


Good point, since gaming makes you fat.


----------



## HGooper

I'm gonna to ask few questions here instead of opening new thread about gaming mechanical keyboard, hope you guys can help.

First of all I'm new to mechanical keyboard, I'm currently using Razer Tarantula RD keyboard. Tbh qc for this keyboard is bad, and people keep talking about how good the mechanical keyboard is for gaming, so I've decided to give it a try on mechanical keyboard.

After doing some researches, what I found is that filco majestouch 2 is a very high quality m/k, and according to this guide, Cherry MX Black Switches is the best for gaming, so I should get filco majestouch 2 with Cherry MX Black Switches.

Am I right on this? Or any other suggestion? I'm playing mainly FPS so please give me some input on best gaming m/k. Thanks.


----------



## aesthetics1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HGooper;14906969*
> I'm gonna to ask few questions here instead of opening new thread about gaming mechanical keyboard, hope you guys can help.
> 
> First of all I'm new to mechanical keyboard, I'm currently using Razer Tarantula RD keyboard. Tbh qc for this keyboard is bad, and people keep talking about how good the mechanical keyboard is for gaming, so I've decided to give it a try on mechanical keyboard.
> 
> After doing some researches, what I found is that filco majestouch 2 is a very high quality m/k, and according to this guide, Cherry MX Black Switches is the best for gaming, so I should get filco majestouch 2 with Cherry MX Black Switches.
> 
> Am I right on this? Or any other suggestion? I'm playing mainly FPS so please give me some input on best gaming m/k. Thanks.


Right-o. You pretty much have done the research. While there is technically no "best" switch, most agree that blacks are great for gaming. I prefer clear switches however because you get some tactile feedback, while blacks are completely linear.

I think it might be worth considering the Ducky keyboards from OCN, lots of options for switch types/keycap types.


----------



## HGooper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aesthetics1;14907043*
> Right-o. You pretty much have done the research. While there is technically no "best" switch, most agree that blacks are great for gaming. I prefer clear switches however because you get some tactile feedback, while blacks are completely linear.
> 
> I think it might be worth considering the Ducky keyboards from OCN, lots of options for switch types/keycap types.


Thanks for your reply. One thing I'm concerned about the keyboard the letters faded away on the keycaps, which's already happened on my Razer Tarantula, I can't see any letter on WASD keycaps anymore, along with nearby keycaps. From what I read Flico keycaps will also suffer with this problem(correct me if I'm wrong), that's why they make the ninja version?


----------



## Tator Tot

Alternative options for solid MX-Black based boards are the Thermaltake Meka G-Unit & Meka G1.

The normal Meka has a slightly funny shape, but can be found for $80 sometimes (Which is a great price for it.)

As Redmist said; you did your research and you've got it down pretty well. Switch type to me, isn't really as important. I do find blues the hardest to game on because of myself being used to mechanical switches themselves (When it comes to gaming at least.)

On the other hand; MX-Blacks are definitely not a bad switch to type on, as they are fairly smooth and are some of the easiest to get used to in terms of how a mechanical switch works.
With an MX-Black, you steadily feel that force increase as you press the switch. So by the time you get to the half way mark, you can see the character pop up on the screen you just know to release at that time.
It takes some practice and getting used to, but in the end it makes them very quiet to type on, which is also nice.

Personally, I like heavy switches so I can't do the same with reds. If I had a more delicate touch; I could pull it off though.

Only certain keycap types will fad away. Lazer Etched keycaps with infill will eventually have the infill fade away.
Like wise, keycaps where the letters are painted on will fade away.

Pad Printed keycaps like what Filco uses will not fade quickly, but the keycap itself will get shiny. E.G. Look glossy over time.
The letter will still be there though, since it's actually a sticker on and not paint or something else.


----------



## Fortunex

I got a mechanical keyboard to get away from the mushiness/no-tactility of a rubber dome keyboard, so I went with browns. I get a slight bump as the switch activates, and to me it feels really good. I decided that blacks were the opposite of what I wanted, being completely linear and a stiff switch.

I don't think there's any best switch for anything, it all comes down to personal preference. I do 90% gaming 10% typing and I'm considering trying to find a keyboard with MX Blues.


----------



## HGooper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14907174*
> Alternative options for solid MX-Black based boards are the Thermaltake Meka G-Unit & Meka G1.
> 
> The normal Meka has a slightly funny shape, but can be found for $80 sometimes (Which is a great price for it.)
> 
> As Redmist said; you did your research and you've got it down pretty well. Switch type to me, isn't really as important. I do find blues the hardest to game on because of myself being used to mechanical switches themselves (When it comes to gaming at least.)
> 
> On the other hand; MX-Blacks are definitely not a bad switch to type on, as they are fairly smooth and are some of the easiest to get used to in terms of how a mechanical switch works.
> With an MX-Black, you steadily feel that force increase as you press the switch. So by the time you get to the half way mark, you can see the character pop up on the screen you just know to release at that time.
> It takes some practice and getting used to, but in the end it makes them very quiet to type on, which is also nice.
> 
> Personally, I like heavy switches so I can't do the same with reds. If I had a more delicate touch; I could pull it off though.
> 
> Only certain keycap types will fad away. Lazer Etched keycaps with infill will eventually have the infill fade away.
> Like wise, keycaps where the letters are painted on will fade away.
> 
> Pad Printed keycaps like what Filco uses will not fade quickly, but the keycap itself will get shiny. E.G. Look glossy over time.
> The letter will still be there though, since it's actually a sticker on and not paint or something else.


From what I can understand, MX-Black is more "responsive" coz it already registers the command when you press half way thru the keycap, unlike RD you've to press all the way down to the bottom to get it registered, is that right?

No idea how the keycap will get shiny over time, and what's the purpose that they releases the ninja version then?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HGooper;14907235*
> From what I can understand, MX-Black is more "responsive" coz it already registers the command when you press half way thru the keycap, unlike RD you've to press all the way down to the bottom to get it registered, is that right?
> 
> No idea how the keycap will get shiny over time, and what's the purpose that they releases the ninja version then?


The reason for the ninja version is looks. If the keycap is shiny everywhere but the letter it looks kinda funny. With the letter on the front of the keycap, it doesn't nearly look as out of place.

Also, you are correct.

All Cherry MX Switches act that way though, 2mm throwout he travel, the switch activates. Sending the signal to your computer.
Topre switches are the same, and for the most part, so are Alps switches.
SO it's not just limited to MX-Blacks; but is more of a general thing for all mechanical switches.


----------



## HGooper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14907432*
> The reason for the ninja version is looks. If the keycap is shiny everywhere but the letter it looks kinda funny. With the letter on the front of the keycap, it doesn't nearly look as out of place.
> 
> Also, you are correct.
> 
> All Cherry MX Switches act that way though, 2mm throwout he travel, the switch activates. Sending the signal to your computer.
> Topre switches are the same, and for the most part, so are Alps switches.
> SO it's not just limited to MX-Blacks; but is more of a general thing for all mechanical switches.


I don't know my Razer Tarantula is using pad painted or what, but it wears very quick and letters are totally gone, not to mention those seldom use keycaps already start to show wearing effect. I don't understand what you've mentioned that the letter will be there even though it starts to wear. The only downside of Filco Majestouch 2 is that it uses ABS Plastic, it might wears pretty fast.

One more thing about the maintenance, do I need to do any maintenance after long period of use and it starts colloecting dusts? The reason that I ask is coz I'm upset with my Razer Tarantula coz it needs maintenance regularly. When it starts collecting dusts around the keycaps, the feeling of pressing keycaps is not smooth, kinda stuck something in between, so I have to take out keycaps and clean them along with RD.

And the worst part is that sometimes certain keys will not functioning well, something you press it'll detect the keycap letter, and sometimes it won't. The reason for this is coz the dusts, I have to open the keyboard the clean the board inside the keyboard, it's annoying coz it happens quite often. Does m/k suffer this problem too?


----------



## Tator Tot

Trantula uses painted on printing.

Most mechanical keyboards do not need much maintenance. After a year of use, depending on how much you use the keyboard, you may need to put lithium grease on the stabilizer of a key. But that takes 10 seconds and is less work than putting oil on a bicycle chain.

Also, that dust thing will not be an issue. As the keycaps on most mechanicals are farther spaced apart at the base of the key (But still use standard key spacing) so they do not touch one another when they are travelling.

Mechanicals will, generally, not suffer from an issue of dust and what not. If you have a bad switch, dust or hair can get into it and cause it to not work. This is rare though; and I've restored 20+ year old mechanical keyboards that have never had this problem.

Also, the ABS Keycaps that Filco uses are pretty standard in the mechanical scene. Rosewill, Ducky, Das, Filco, Mionix, Thermaltake, & WASD all use the same ABS keycaps.
The only difference is that Filco puts a special coating on their keys that looks worse over time as you see the normal key wear, the wearing of the coating, and the letter.

The other brands do not apply this coating and generally look better after long periods of use.


----------



## HGooper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14907767*
> Trantula uses painted on printing.
> 
> Most mechanical keyboards do not need much maintenance. After a year of use, depending on how much you use the keyboard, you may need to put lithium grease on the stabilizer of a key. But that takes 10 seconds and is less work than putting oil on a bicycle chain.
> 
> Also, that dust thing will not be an issue. As the keycaps on most mechanicals are farther spaced apart at the base of the key (But still use standard key spacing) so they do not touch one another when they are travelling.
> 
> Mechanicals will, generally, not suffer from an issue of dust and what not. If you have a bad switch, dust or hair can get into it and cause it to not work. This is rare though; and I've restored 20+ year old mechanical keyboards that have never had this problem.
> 
> Also, the ABS Keycaps that Filco uses are pretty standard in the mechanical scene. Rosewill, Ducky, Das, Filco, Mionix, Thermaltake, & WASD all use the same ABS keycaps.
> The only difference is that Filco puts a special coating on their keys that looks worse over time as you see the normal key wear, the wearing of the coating, and the letter.
> 
> The other brands do not apply this coating and generally look better after long periods of use.


Thank you Tator, pretty much all my questions have been answered. The only thing left is which brand to choose, I'll probably get Filco, and say goodbye to the ****ty Razor keyboard, no more Razor products for me anymore.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HGooper;14907813*
> Thank you Tator, pretty much all my questions have been answered. The only thing left is which brand to choose, I'll probably get Filco, and say goodbye to the ****ty Razor keyboard, no more Razor products for me anymore.


I'd go for your best priced option.

Mionix Zibal 60, WASD Custom/Semi Custom Keyboard v1, Thermaltake Meka G1, Rosewill RK-9000, Filco Majestouch, Das Model S, & Ducky DK9008/DK9008-G2/DK9000 keyboards are all on the same quality level.


----------



## HGooper

One more question, does it require soldiering if I want to change the keycap on Filco Majestouch 2 keyboard?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HGooper*


One more question, does it require soldiering if I want to change the keycap on Filco Majestouch 2 keyboard?


No, it's as simple as "plug & go"

You just lift the keycap off of a + shaped stem, then push the new one into place.


----------



## Saberfang

I'm looking for my next keyboard and I'm thinking about getting a mechanical one. Still I have doubts about the switches choice expecially when it comes to black vs brown. I'll use this keyboard for everything but still I don't get why lots of people prefer the linear feedback of the black switch over the tactile of the brown one when it comes to gaming. Isn't better to have that tactile feeling when you press a key so that you can actually sense clearly the actuation point?


----------



## Fortunex

It's not "better" for everyone, it's personal preference. Some people like the smooth actuation and you bottom out while gaming anyways, so the bump isn't terribly useful.


----------



## HWI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Saberfang;14932801*
> I'm looking for my next keyboard and I'm thinking about getting a mechanical one. Still I have doubts about the switches choice expecially when it comes to black vs brown. I'll use this keyboard for everything but still I don't get why lots of people prefer the linear feedback of the black switch over the tactile of the brown one when it comes to gaming. Isn't better to have that tactile feeling when you press a key so that you can actually sense clearly the actuation point?


The reason that most people prefer Black/Red over Brown/Blue for gaming is because with the Brown and Blue switches the reset point and actuation point are 2 different points. With the linear it's just down and up, no separate points for reset and actuation. I have keyboards with Black, Brown, and Blue and for a while I preferred the Browns because it's a nice middle ground for typing and gaming. However, recently I purchased a tkl Ducky with Black and have been using it and I am now getting comfortable typing on Blacks. Now that I'm used to typing on Blacks it is my favorite switch out of the ones I've tried(Black, Brown, Blue, Red). Keep in mind that I game a lot, so if you type a lot it may not be the switch for you, but everyone is different.


----------



## Fortunex

Actually it's only blues that have a separate reset and actuation point, browns activate and reset at the same point.

(taken from the front page of this thread)


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HWI;14936175*
> The reason that most people prefer Black/Red over Brown/Blue for gaming is because with the Brown and Blue switches the reset point and actuation point are 2 different points. With the linear it's just down and up, no separate points for reset and actuation. I have keyboards with Black, Brown, and Blue and for a while I preferred the Browns because it's a nice middle ground for typing and gaming. However, recently I purchased a tkl Ducky with Black and have been using it and I am now getting comfortable typing on Blacks. Now that I'm used to typing on Blacks it is my favorite switch out of the ones I've tried(Black, Brown, Blue, Red). Keep in mind that I game a lot, so if you type a lot it may not be the switch for you, but everyone is different.


Browns have the actuation point very close to the reset point, so that's not really an issue. It's a huge problem with the Blue switch though.


----------



## ripster

Huge may be an overstatement. But then I don't have Hysteresis Hysteria.


----------



## HWI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex;14936603*
> Actually it's only blues that have a separate reset and actuation point, browns activate and reset at the same point.
> 
> (taken from the front page of this thread)


Look at the picture for the Brown switch again. The reset and actuation point are definitely different, just a lot closer than on the Blue switch.


----------



## Fortunex

Looks the same to me, feels the same too. It may reset a tiny bit earlier than it actuates, which isn't a problem. Blues are disliked for gaming because teh reset point is farther up than the actuation point so you have to release the key farther.


----------



## gonX

If you pay attention to how it actuates it does actuate a lot later than it resets...


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GeoMan;13664632*
> I am looking at a Filco. It supports OS X but i don't know if you can disable the Windows key (i can do it by modifying the registry but i am looking for a quicker method).
> 
> Currently i am using an Altec keyboard which i bought back in 1995 with my first PC. It is heavy, mechanical (white switches) and has a metal back-plate.
> Being so old it doesn't have a Windows key and unfortunately doesn't support anti-ghosting.
> It is amazing that although i use it on a daily basis all keys work perfectly and the lettering hasn't rub-off!


You can easily change the windows key to be the cmd key and the alt key to be the alt key or vice versa in the system preferences in OS X.
No tool needed, everything built in already.


----------



## BigT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;14937199*
> If you pay attention to how it actuates it does actuate a lot later than it resets...


Just check the force diagrams. go to page one of the MKG. they are all basically the same for the operation point and reset point. the only one that does not have the same operation point and reset point is blue, and it is VERY close. we are talking 1mm. Any difference in the "BUMP" that you feel is not related to the operation and reset point. the bump is there for you to just feel the key. the bumps have not been syncronized with the operation and reset points. maybe cherry will make one in the future where the bump is the same on the stroke and backstroke, with the operation point and reset points set at the "crest" of the bump. i doubt it tho.
I have a 7G on one of my gameing computers and a Noppoo choc with blue switches on the other. i game on both. i have never had a problem with double tapping or anythign on the blue switches. but then again i do not play starcraft 2 compedatively, and i dont make 120 opperations per second....


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gonX;14937199*
> If you pay attention to how it actuates it does actuate a lot later than it resets...


A lot of people seem to be able to use them fine anyways. I'm not one of them.


----------



## ripster

Hey, I know where those force diagrams and bouncing switches came from!


----------



## Fortunex

Actually it actuates and resets earlier than the bump (going in either direction), if anything you'll release it without meaning to, instead of not releasing enough for it to reset, which is why some people don't like blues for gaming.


----------



## gonX

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Fortunex*


Actually it actuates and resets earlier than the bump (going in either direction), if anything you'll release it without meaning to, instead of not releasing enough for it to reset, which is why some people don't like blues for gaming.


That's what I wanted to say too. The force diagram does not say anything about reset and actuation points.


----------



## BigT

does the force diagram not point with a line and a dot to the operation point and reset point on the force curve. to show you where it happens as the key travles?? i am not talking about the animated picture of the switch. i am talking about the graph that shows the travel distance of the switch related to force. it shows you everything. for each switch.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigT;14944370*
> does the force diagram not point with a line and a dot to the operation point and reset point on the force curve. to show you where it happens as the key travles?? i am not talking about the animated picture of the switch. i am talking about the graph that shows the travel distance of the switch related to force. it shows you everything. for each switch.


Yes, the graphs are showing that.


----------



## fido

Well I wanted to read the hole post and all the reply's but that will take me ages and am using my iPhone, witch not mechanical Or any type of keyboards u wrote lol

Any way I would love tO buy a mechanical keyboard and noise or price is not a big problem the main issue it's I play lots of games and type alot I have MacBook pro and I find the keyboard is super good but when I touched the razorback widow I know wt u guys mean by mechanical keyboard it's amazing and ye if I get used to it it will be way better then another type.

But I was thinking Of razor anansi I need these extra keys especially for gaming I macro crazily and the backlit ofc so am confused between mechanical keyboards and anansi plz give some advice guys


----------



## Fortunex

Razer Black Widow Ultimate has backlighting and macro keys, and is mechanical.


----------



## fido

only 5 macro keys and the anansi have these 5 and 6 more witch they r perfect place under the space bar


----------



## fido

well i will start modeling 3D model for perfect concept of mechanical keyboard witch suits all gamers and typers all type of ppl







maybe will finish it in 1-3 days and will post screen shots


----------



## Pwnography

Really wanted the Deck with Blacks :/ seem to be exactly what i want. but its Â£215 :O i know, thats over double what it is in the US.

Know any other keyboards with Blacks and backlight that i can get hold of in the UK ?


----------



## fido

am using the macbook pro laptop keyboard just wondering wt type of printing they used on it laser? and u didn't mention Matias Tactile Pro 3.0Keycap Printing method is it same as the laptop? sry but i tryed googling didn't find anything about that and am trying to make 3D model and i find the prints on mac keyboard are good on other hand i find the lay out is bad like small back key or shift key also small and there is key between R_shift and Z key witch is weird also makes the Z key far from shift witch is wrong location i think


----------



## BigT

http://www.corsair.com/vengeance-gam...keyboards.html

you guys see the new mechanical boards from corsair. they look nice. the vengeance boards. the K90 looks like a little much for me, but the K60 looks awsome!!!!! I will have to find a way to convince the whife i need another one!


----------



## Pwnography

apprehensive with reds, playing competitive CSS for example i like to apply some force near to the actuation point so that i can react faster. Feel that would become difficult on reds


----------



## fido

well guys think with me wt would be perfect and cool features to have in a mechanical keyboard and last thing i will maybe make a pull witch switch i should chose: thinking:

Attachment 229166

ps: am welling to complete it to make look just like the real keyboards full shading and lightnings etc


----------



## BigT

Looks good, but its a bit much for me personally. i like simple keyboards. very few extra features. thats why i like the 7g, and the noppoo choc and filco boards. at the most corsaire K60. it looks slick, and i do like volume controll.


----------



## Fortunex

Simple for me too. Maybe just volume up and volume down buttons some place on the keyboard. As for switches, browns, reds, or blues imo.


----------



## lolmont

I just got the Ultimate stealth which uses the cherry browns, I'm loving it. Was almost gonna get the rosewill cherry blue keyboard as I found those very nice as well. But a friend had a coupon at the razer store


----------



## ripster

The OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide STILL prefers PS/2?

The new Corsair Vengeance keyboards dropped PS/2 support.


----------



## csm725

I don't trust Corsair's keyboards.


----------



## Fortunex

As far as I know, PS/2 is superior in almost every way.


----------



## ripster

USB allows Corsair to do nice Macro SW programming.









The OCN Mechanical Guide only points out the NEGATIVES of USB.

Seems onesided.


----------



## csm725

Lol'd at the PS2 is better in every way.
How so?


----------



## HWI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725;14969252*
> Lol'd at the PS2 is better in every way.
> How so?


No latency is about the only thing I can think of. They make NKRO usb boards, so no benefit to PS/2 in that regard.


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *csm725*


Lol'd at the PS2 is better in every way.
How so?


From the very first post in this thread...

Quote:



PS/2 wins on three fronts: First, it supports full n-key rollover. Second, PS/2 keyboards aren't polled, but are completely interrupt based. And third, it is impossible for it to be delayed by the USB bus being used by other devices. There are two types of USB transfer modes - the interrupt transfer mode (USB polls keyboard, when key is sensed the USB controller sends the interrupt to the CPU), and the isochronous transfer mode, which reserves a certain amount of bandwidth for the keyboard with a guaranteed latency on the bus. Unfortunately, there are absolutely no keyboards made that use the latter, because special controllers would have to be used, thus making it cost prohibitive.

So if your keyboard supports both PS/2 and USB, and your PC has a PS/2 port, there's no reason not to use it.


----------



## HWI

You can have NKRO over usb, my Noppoo Choc Mini is NKRO over usb.


----------



## Tator Tot

Oh Ripster.

I still prefer PS/2, but I will be updating the guide ASAP. It may even be to your liking, I just have no ETA's because I keep missing deadlines.

On the other hand; I like the look of the new Corsair keyboards. They're different, and interesting. 
Though, the exposed switches could be bad.


----------



## taiyoyuden

The K60 would be perfect for me if it had brown switches and no volume control. I don't want any keyboard to be messing with my audio/volume settings.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taiyoyuden;14975201*
> The K60 would be perfect for me if it had brown switches and no volume control. I don't want any keyboard to be messing with my audio/volume settings.


Volume Control isn't gonna change anything on your system unless you hit the button yourself.


----------



## HWI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taiyoyuden;14975201*
> I don't want any keyboard to be messing with my audio/volume settings.


This kind of made me laugh. Do you think the keyboard arbitrarily changes the volume w/o you pressing any buttons or something?


----------



## taiyoyuden

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HWI;14988399*
> This kind of made me laugh. Do you think the keyboard arbitrarily changes the volume w/o you pressing any buttons or something?


I simply don't want the buttons there with the potential to be pressed by accident. If I wanted to use it, it would not work. If I have one sound card at 20% and another at 100% and hit volume down, then it would set both to 90%. This would damage my k701/dt-770 drivers and my hearing.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taiyoyuden;14989134*
> I simply don't want the buttons there with the potential to be pressed by accident. If I wanted to use it, it would not work. If I have one sound card at 20% and another at 100% and hit volume down, then it would set both to 90%.


For most keyboards, you have to hold down the FN key before you press the Volume key for it to work.


----------



## taiyoyuden

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


For most keyboards, you have to hold down the FN key before you press the Volume key for it to work.


From what I've seen, this is mainly on laptop keyboards.


----------



## Fortunex

And mini keyboards or any keyboards that have the volume functions on say, the F1-F12 keys.


----------



## HWI

Quote:



Originally Posted by *taiyoyuden*


From what I've seen, this is mainly on laptop keyboards.


All 3 of my keyboards that have media controls(non laptop) require a modifier key to be pressed to manipulate the volume.


----------



## Phos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14973410*
> Oh Ripster.
> 
> I still prefer PS/2, but I will be updating the guide ASAP. It may even be to your liking, I just have no ETA's because I keep missing deadlines.
> 
> On the other hand; I like the look of the new Corsair keyboards. They're different, and interesting.
> Though, the exposed switches could be bad.


Aside from the switches hes around the edges, they aren't really any more exposed than they are on a normal keyboard.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;14978400*
> Volume Control isn't gonna change anything on your system unless you hit the button yourself.


Or if it were made by Razer. Man, that Lycosa of mine was annoying, and RMA'ing it didn't make it any better.


----------



## HWI

I may have already said this, but I think the exposed switch is a very cool idea. It's just too bad the rest of the board doesn't fit my wants/needs.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taiyoyuden;14991705*
> From what I've seen, this is mainly on laptop keyboards.


Almost all mechanical boards with Media keys have them bound to an FN Key + one of the F1-F12 keys.

The DK1008 has Volume Up, Down, & Mute on their own means; but they're still at the top edge of the board. You're not gonna hit them by accident.


----------



## FatPirate

So I'm thinking of getting a mechanical keyboard here soon. What kind of switch would you say is best for fps games and got a keyboard to recommend?


----------



## Fortunex

Cherry Reds or Browns in my opinion. Blacks are too stiff for my liking.

Corsair's new mech keyboards, Das Professional Silent, Filco, etc.


----------



## KipH

I just was informed that these are now for sale. They are not the ones I saw at Computex but they look ok. What do we know about them AND are there any questions you want to ask CM about them?

CM Storm Quickfire


----------



## Colt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manyak;6009482*


Its only me, or those animations are made with Phun?


----------



## ripster

Made by a Geekhacker with fun in mind. Link.


----------



## Fortunex

For the loose part in blues that makes the click sound, is there a spring pushing it downward or is it just gravity making it fall?


----------



## ripster

The switch itself pushes down the white mexican jumping bean part.

Clever design.

Gamers here hate it. I call that Hysteresis Hysteria.

From the OP.
Quote:


> Cherry MX Blue switches are the best cherry switch for typing. The tactile bump can easily be felt, and the resistance is similar to your average keyboard.
> 
> Although many people find them just fine for gaming, some don't like the fact that the release point is above the actuation point. This can cause some trouble with double-tapping. This is usually the case with someone who has experienced other mechanical switches before hand.
> 
> As a note: this switch actually has a peak force of 60g, it is 50g at the point of actuation. This is due to the design of the Cherry switch itself.


My son doubletaps on a IBM Buckling Spring fine for example. And the hysteresis there is enormous.


----------



## Tator Tot

I blame the brown ones. (MX-Browns that is.)

They've spoiled those kids with light, near linear switches.


----------



## magna224

Browns were nothing like I had expected when I tried it for the first time. I was expecting something more exciting. Just like you said they were too light and not very tactile at all. I use ALPS for everything now. I have no problems with gaming, infact I find it makes my movements much more precise over most other switches. I like blacks for gaming a little more but on some games such as quake 3 I find my self over stepping sometimes with them.


----------



## Fortunex

Yeah, I thought browns would have a much more tactile feel, and would have the actuation point a lot later in the keypress, instead of nearly at the top, but I still enjoy this keyboard very very much.


----------



## hondajt

are there any illuminated mechancal keyboards?


----------



## Fortunex

Deck makes some, Razer Black Widow Ultimate, Mionix Zibal.


----------



## mickeyfuqinp

i was unaware of any of this crazy keyboard business!

..i feel a bit ashamed..


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hondajt*


are there any illuminated mechancal keyboards?


Deck Legend / Deck 82
KBC Poker 75%
X-Armor U9BL-S or U9BL 
Ducky DK9008-S
Razer Black Widow Ultimate / Stealth / Dragon Age II Edition
Mionix Zibal 60 
Q-Pad MK-80


----------



## csm725

Poker is illuminated to a certain extent.


----------



## asuperpower

I just found this. Seems like a direct copy off OCN's mechanical keyboard guide (or vice versa.)


----------



## WorldExclusive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *asuperpower;15066606*
> I just found this. Seems like a direct copy off OCN's mechanical keyboard guide (or vice versa.)


Some cut and paste is there. I linked the thread here to a forum post @ [H] and started a guide from there.
Gotta give credit when it's due.


----------



## asuperpower

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WorldExclusive;15066642*
> Some cut and paste is there. I linked the thread here to a forum post @ [H] and started a guide from there.
> Gotta give credit when it's due.


ok.


----------



## ripster

NICE pictures!

















Oh look. They left the watermark on it and gave attribution.
Quote:


> Photo Credits:
> Pictures of Keycaps and Cherry MX switch thanks to Ripster on OCN & Geekhack
> Key cutaways thanks to Signature Plastics
> Special thanks to Lethal Squirrel from Geekhack.org for the animated Cherry MX images.


If you decide to complain I'm backing AprilS on this one. Her fingernails are sexy.


----------



## Tator Tot

Yet no attribution to the writers on OCN that they did Cut & Paste from.

Ripster; if you want, PM the photos that need a watermark and I'll add them in. I just used the original photos hosted on OCN. I'll just rehost them and put them into the guide.


----------



## ripster

Sure, I'll send updated pics.

But I don't see any Copy Pasta myself. The writing is much better. And there are plenty of other Mechanical Keyboard Guides like the one I wrote!


----------



## HardDrive

Hi everyone.
I found this nameless mechanical keyboard for about 10$ and Im wondering if I should buy it. The adapter to ps2 port wil coast me another 2$. Now the only thing that is holding me back is not the one missing key cap, but that I dont know if it is possible to clean the keyboard. As you can see from the keys and the front panel have that so common for very old keyboards yellowish tone, is it possible for this to be cleaned be it in dishwasher or with bleach or with something else ? Maybe I can sand the key caps with very fine sand paper or will it erase the letters and symbols ? Even if it is not is it worth it to get this beast, I will use it to play StarCraft 2.
Here are pics
http://store.picbg.net/pubpic/E0/4C/211b287f670fe04c.jpg
http://store.picbg.net/pubpic/BE/58/059c5c381a7dbe58.jpg
http://store.picbg.net/pubpic/55/EE/d371fec8423155ee.jpg


----------



## Tator Tot

That's an alps board; as for cleaning, try doing the spacebar first.

If it was in a smoke heavy environment, then it's gonna be a very hard task to un-tinge the board.


----------



## HardDrive

So is it worth buying it ?


----------



## Starbomba

If you do plan to take your time to throughly clean it up, i'd buy it since it's cheap. IMHO, any switch beats rubber domes. I have never tried Alps switches tho.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HardDrive;15069480*
> So is it worth buying it ?


Simplified Alps for $10? Can't really go wrong.
Clean Up should be worth the cost considering everything works.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;15067064*
> Ripster; if you want, PM the photos that need a watermark and I'll add them in. I just used the original photos hosted on OCN. I'll just rehost them and put them into the guide.


PM sent.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;15086873*
> PM sent.


Replied and I'll be updating photos in a moment.

Interesting fact of the day; the new Ducky DK-1008 & Rosewill RK-9000 are the same board.
More on this later if I can spit out a review for it. I still need to write the DK-9008-S review (Ducky Shine for those that don't recognize the model number.)


----------



## HardDrive

Tator Tot and Starbomba, thanks for the advices. I bought the board, cleaned it up. Still the plastic has turned yellow, so yellow that you might think that the board is just yellow. Once I got past this fact, the kbd is quite nice, its comfortable and all the switches work perfectly. I might mod when I have the time.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HardDrive;15098178*
> Tator Tot and Starbomba, thanks for the advices. I bought the board, cleaned it up. Still the plastic has turned yellow, so yellow that you might think that the board is just yellow. Once I got past this fact, the kbd is quite nice, its comfortable and all the switches work perfectly. I might mod when I have the time.


104 of these and you'll be good to go.

http://www.tankguys.com/site-merchandise/overclock-net-keyboard-key.html


----------



## BigT

So what do you guys all think of the new Corsair K60. it looks really cool. and it looks like a good price for Cherry Reds. I want to hear the opinions of the keyboard enthusiasts. I am thinking about getting it.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BigT*


So what do you guys all think of the new Corsair K60. it looks really cool. and it looks like a good price for Cherry Reds. I want to hear the opinions of the keyboard enthusiasts. I am thinking about getting it.


It doesn't fully use Cherry MX-Red's on the entire keyboard. It's got rubber dome switches mixed in there apparently.

Also, it'll most likely be light due to the aluminum plate instead of a steel plate. Though; I'm not sure if that'll make it flexible at all.


----------



## BigT

the aluminum plate should be fine. because it is ribed at the top and bottom. that should give alot of strength. your right tho it probably will be lighter. I hope it does not have any ruber dome keys. i dont care if the media keys are ruber dome but every regular key needs to be an MX red..... i guess i will have to wait untill there are reviews of this thing. see just whats its made of. you have me worried now! well there is alwasy the new rosewill RK-9000RE...


----------



## Derp

Is it safe to assume that reds and blacks last longer and stay more consistent because they lack the tactile bump found on other switches like browns and blues?


----------



## gonX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp;15146638*
> Is it safe to assume that reds and blacks last longer and stay more consistent because they lack the tactile bump found on other switches like browns and blues?


I think it'd be better to say that reds and blacks feel more consistent throughout their lifetime, but I don't think they actually last longer. MX Blues is definitely the most fragile switch out of those, though.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp;15146638*
> Is it safe to assume that reds and blacks last longer and stay more consistent because they lack the tactile bump found on other switches like browns and blues?


It's more a consistency of feel rather than a life-time factor.

Really old and warn down MX-Browns feel like MX-Red's almost. Since the tactile point is almost completely demolished.
MX-Blues & MX-Greens are a bit more complicated and may actually "die" early due to the switch's click mechanism getting locked up. But I've not seen this happen before.

Either way, I'm sure most MX-Switches live LONG past their rated lifetimes.


----------



## webwit

Pah! I bet you don't even know how many years of average use 50 million strokes translates to.







Give us the math! Cherry releases nothing, except that magic rounded number. They don't release their methods. They don't even release what exactly that number means. 50 million till the first key goes bad? Till it feels bad past a certain quality level? Till it does not actuate any longer (but it can feel bad)?

Furthermore that magic number could mean that: 1) Cherry plays it save and their tests show it's well above 50 million, 2) Cherry exaggerates for marketing reasons and because lab conditions do not equal real use conditions, 3) Cherry just makes up some number, who the hell is gonna check it?

I wouldn't put my money on 1 necessarily. It's a vertical leaf switch. The leaf and the friction with the plastic part suggest that in theory they don't last as long as the buckling springs, for example.


----------



## Crazy9000

Someone needs to press a cherry switch 50 million times and see what happens. Any volunteers?


----------



## asuperpower

Quote:



Originally Posted by *webwit*


3) Cherry just makes up some number, who the hell is gonna check it?


I loled at this. This is going in my sig.


----------



## pjBSOD

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Someone needs to press a cherry switch 50 million times and see what happens. Any volunteers?


Pay me in reeses cups and I'm your man.


----------



## asuperpower

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*


Someone needs to press a cherry switch 50 million times and see what happens. Any volunteers?


To figure out how long it would last:
Install WhatPulse
Find out how many keystrokes you use in an average week over four weeks
Figure it out! Divide 50mill by Keystrokes/Week. Convert weeks into years.
As for how long it would last, you find out how much force 5 people who use mechanical keyboards use. Find 5 people who use Cherry MX Red, 5 who use Cherry MX Brown Etc. Then measure how much force each person uses. Next, get different key-switches. 5 key switches to be particular. Put a machine the size of the persons hand matched with their force. Also do the tests in a chamber that is heated throughout the day and cooled throughout the night. Then, weather wear (plastic and key switch expanding and contracting throughout the day) can be measured accurately. Done. It would take a while though.


----------



## Tator Tot

I vote Ripster does the 50mil Click's, he's the most insane one around these parts.


----------



## mondalaci

This calls for a project utilizing a solenoid and a microcontroller. Don't count me in however, I'm an overly busy and important person.


----------



## ripster




----------



## csm725

I will let you know if I ever hit 50mil on one board.


----------



## taiyoyuden

I couldn't take it anymore and ordered a Filco TKL brown off Amazon. Time to go GM.


----------



## Tokkan

I think I have a mechanical keyboard at my workplace 
I saw if it was a dome and it wasnt, also it activates half-pressed...
I always liked that keyboard







guess now I know why


----------



## keyboardlover

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tokkan;15166122*
> I think I have a mechanical keyboard at my workplace
> I saw if it was a dome and it wasnt, also it activates half-pressed...
> I always liked that keyboard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guess now I know why


Pull a keycap and post a pic! Then we can tell what kind it is =)


----------



## rebelextrm02

I'm thinking of switching from browns to reds. Does anyone have any advice on some mx red boards? I prefer back-lighting if at all possible. I love my U9BL-S back-lighting. I've heard of the upcoming back-lit Ducky boards. The new Corsair is rumored to have some rubber dome switches so it's out of the equation. I also noticed Rosewill is producing a red switch board now. Any other suggestions?

I noticed the mx red section of the keyboard list in this guide was very out of date.


----------



## ripster

These should be coming out in red. But probably not until early 2012.

KBC Poker 75









or KBtalking Pure.









Better Red Than Dead.


----------



## asuperpower

Quote:



Originally Posted by *taiyoyuden*


I couldn't take it anymore and ordered a Filco TKL brown off Amazon. Time to go GM.


I can't take it anymore either. Going to purchase a Das Model S Ultimate Silent.


----------



## KipH

Coolermaster has promised a new red switch board as well. There are some pictures of in in my Computex report (see sig). But it will probably be in Asia only so you will need me or someone like PC home to ship it to you.

I am typing on Coolermaster's new 10key less Quick Fire Rapid now. Its a nice brown switch. Look for my unboxing and review on it now, and if you have questions about it let me know.

I found the CM Quick Fire Rapid in Red! if you can read or translate this page








PC home has it in red


----------



## LoneWolf15

I finally decided that it was time to move into the 21st century.

So I ordered a USB Unicomp Customizer to replace my IBM Model-M so I could have Windows keys. Had to order a USB KVM switch too, but I was already using a two PS/2 <-> one USB adapter from the KVM to work with my mainboard. And I'll finally have a black keyboard to match my system.

Maybe I'll bring my Model M to work. I'm getting somewhat annoyed with my Dell bluetooth keyboard, and the Model M has an extra long cord, so wireless wouldn't matter. I love my buckling springs.


----------



## djriful

What is the lowest price you guys ever seen for a Mechanical keyboard?
I am in fact looking for one since my rubber dome keyboard is giving me troubles in FPS... especially crouching/prone sometime my keyboard isn't registering my stroke at all. I had to press really hard.

Some crap $20 keyboard...


----------



## Tator Tot

NIB, the cheapest you can get is $60-70 most of the time.

Used stuff can go for $20-30 easily.


----------



## djriful

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


NIB, the cheapest you can get is $60-70 most of the time.

Used stuff can go for $20-30 easily.


You are indeed correct. I took a bit more deeper search and found these based on Cherry quality.

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...re=Thermaltake

and

http://www.directcanada.com/products...re=THERMALTAKE

Now, I've ordered from NCIX before but DirectCanada is new to me.
Before going into buying, does anyone has this keyboard? Recommended?

It doesn't have the Windows button which I don't mind but if I use it on my Mac as well. There will be missing key command. lol


----------



## Tator Tot

I've got the Keyboard, it's based on an iRocks model. The only "downside" is that it's not an NKRO board.
On the other hand, it doesn't have any ghosting and Q-T and Z-B are covered in the Key matrix with the arrow keys & spacebar.
SO it shouldn't have a single problem with gaming.


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:



Originally Posted by *djriful*


You are indeed correct. I took a bit more deeper search and found these based on Cherry quality.

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...re=Thermaltake

and

http://www.directcanada.com/products...re=THERMALTAKE

Now, I've ordered from NCIX before but DirectCanada is new to me.
Before going into buying, does anyone has this keyboard? Recommended?

It doesn't have the Windows button which I don't mind but if I use it on my Mac as well. There will be missing key command. lol


If you like that giant enter bar, go for it.

You can just price match DirectCanada's price to NCIX, btw.


----------



## KipH

I am typing on that exact board now, except the i-Rocks version and I tested it out a bit at Computex. Its a nice board to type on, sturdy feeling and boring. The Tt version just added "flair" and colour bits and swapped in Black switched for "gamers".

But thought it was NKRO. Mine is full Nkro with a good adapter and the max 6+4 over usb. They say Anti ghosting function for up to 16 keys anywhere on the keyboard without any interference via USB and I think they are ones to mix up KRO and dead people.

One thing though. It is smaller than it looks. Take a bit before you get used to it and stop making typso. And then the ? key will feel out of place on your other boards once you get use to it odd placement. But the 10 Enter key is in a great place to be used with your mouse hand and i miss that on other boards.

I recommend looking for the i-Rocks KR 6230 if you like that board in brown with NKRO and less ugly plastic.


----------



## JaRi




----------



## KipH

I have my own vid of that board from the OEM








Now I watch his to see if they fixed the flaws I told them about.
From Computex:


----------



## csm725

I bought one from a user who ended up not even opening the box.


----------



## magna224

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful;15300605*
> What is the lowest price you guys ever seen for a Mechanical keyboard?


$1.50


----------



## Saberfang

I have a question about the nkro, how is it done? I mean where it comes the difference that allow the ps/2 to easily have full nkro while you can hardly archive that with usb?


----------



## LoneWolf15

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful;15300605*
> What is the lowest price you guys ever seen for a Mechanical keyboard?
> I am in fact looking for one since my rubber dome keyboard is giving me troubles in FPS... especially crouching/prone sometime my keyboard isn't registering my stroke at all. I had to press really hard.
> 
> Some crap $20 keyboard...


Lowest price isn't always a great option.

I bought my SO an ABS M1 mechanical when NewEgg had a sale (clearing them out at $20 instead of $50); I believe it uses Alps mechanical switches. For $20, it's a great keyboard. For $50, it isn't. Unlike some inexpensive mechanical keyboards, it is decently made, but cheaping out may mean you get mediocre key-switches, or good Cherry switches on a poorly-made keyboard.

Some parts like this, buying right the first time means not being ticked off when all is said and done. You don't have to pay top dollar, but the best thing is to find out which kind of mechanical switches you want (tactile/non-tactile, silient/clicky, Cherry/Alps/buckling spring, and what kind of pressure) before looking at price, or you're going to end up with something that is "mechanical" but may not be what you want. That's not any better than buying another rubber dome keyboard.

P.S. The cheapest price you'll find on a mechanical is if some place is getting rid of a pile of used stuff, and an IBM Model M is buried in that pile. I've gotten my IBM Model Ms for cheap ($10) or free. You'll need a PS/2 port, and they lack Windows keys, but they will last until you're pushing up daisies. Even if you find one that's dirty, you can pop all of the keys and keycaps off, wash them, and put it back together good as new. They also make a good anti-burglar weapon.


----------



## djriful

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LoneWolf15*


Lowest price isn't always a great option.

I bought my SO an ABS M1 mechanical when NewEgg had a sale (clearing them out at $20 instead of $50); I believe it uses Alps mechanical switches. For $20, it's a great keyboard. For $50, it isn't. Unlike some inexpensive mechanical keyboards, it is decently made, but cheaping out may mean you get mediocre key-switches, or good Cherry switches on a poorly-made keyboard.

Some parts like this, buying right the first time means not being ticked off when all is said and done. You don't have to pay top dollar, but the best thing is to find out which kind of mechanical switches you want (tactile/non-tactile, silient/clicky, Cherry/Alps/buckling spring, and what kind of pressure) before looking at price, or you're going to end up with something that is "mechanical" but may not be what you want. That's not any better than buying another rubber dome keyboard.

P.S. The cheapest price you'll find on a mechanical is if some place is getting rid of a pile of used stuff, and an IBM Model M is buried in that pile. I've gotten my IBM Model Ms for cheap ($10) or free. You'll need a PS/2 port, and they lack Windows keys, but they will last until you're pushing up daisies. Even if you find one that's dirty, you can pop all of the keys and keycaps off, wash them, and put it back together good as new. They also make a good anti-burglar weapon.


I was looking at the IBM Model M pic... this is totally remind me back in high school about many years ago. I think I did get my hand on one of them and I am wondering they are throwing them out haha. I would just grab them.


----------



## magicase

Has anyone used the Thermaltake Meka G1 or Mionix Zibal 60 keyboards?

I know the G1 has high quality but i'm wondering how good the quality on the Zibal is.


----------



## Sainesk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *djriful*


DirectCanada is new to me.


i've ordered tons from them, no problems so far.

They usually have some awesome prices which is why I spend a bit of time every day browsing for deals like that on their site...


----------



## cmdrdredd

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Saberfang*


I have a question about the nkro, how is it done? I mean where it comes the difference that allow the ps/2 to easily have full nkro while you can hardly archive that with usb?


The way I understand it is PS/2 isn't polled by the CPU like USB. SO when a key is pressed it sends a hardware interrupt and forces the CPU to register the signal at that time. There is no lag that way. USB only supports 6 key roll over or something like that because of the way it handles the signal.


----------



## ripster

Surprised more OCN'rs don't use PS/2 mice if PS/2 is that fast.


----------



## HWI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cmdrdredd;15326038*
> USB only supports 6 key roll over or something like that because of the way it handles the signal.


Not all USB keyboards are created equal. The master race of Noppoo has NKRO over USB.


----------



## eggrolls

I'm looking for a keyboard that's

- full size
- standard layout (no large enter key, etc.)
- no "shine"
- no letter fading OR blank keycaps

What are my options? I haven't decided on switch type, but definitely no clicky blues.


----------



## HWI

If you want to absolutely forever avoid letter fading then go with the Ninja by Filco, it has the letters printed on the front of the keycap instead of the top. Or you could get the side printed keycaps separate (qtan sells them) and put them on any full size board of your choosing.


----------



## eggrolls

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HWI;15327156*
> If you want to absolutely forever avoid letter fading then go with the Ninja by Filco, it has the letters printed on the front of the keycap instead of the top. Or you could get the side printed keycaps separate (qtan sells them) and put them on any full size board of your choosing.


I like the ninja, but aren't the keycaps made of ABS, which gets shiny easily?


----------



## HWI

I am not sure if they are ABS or PBT. Qtan sells PBT side printed key caps, I have a set and they are very nice, so you could always get them and put them on whatever board you get.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster;15326516*
> Surprised more OCN'rs don't use PS/2 mice if PS/2 is that fast.


I don't know how keyboards work, but mice are generally polled at 100/200hz via PS/2.

I suppose it would be cool (and useless) if there were some PS/2 mice with half a millisecond response time. E-peen to the max.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *magicase;15324439*
> Has anyone used the Thermaltake Meka G1 or Mionix Zibal 60 keyboards?
> 
> I know the G1 has high quality but i'm wondering how good the quality on the Zibal is.


Zibal 60 & the Meka G1 are both standard issue designs from Costar. Body design and everything.

The only difference is that the Zibal 60 uses ABS keycaps with green LED's behind them.
The Meka G1 uses ABS keys that are pad printed.


----------



## Saberfang

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cmdrdredd*


The way I understand it is PS/2 isn't polled by the CPU like USB. SO when a key is pressed it sends a hardware interrupt and forces the CPU to register the signal at that time. There is no lag that way. USB only supports 6 key roll over or something like that because of the way it handles the signal.


I don't think that matter. If the problem is the polling than a memory stack where the keys pressed are pushed waiting for the next reading should solve it. For what I know when it come to ghosting you have to optimize the keys connection grid to avoid signals to overlap. The best way should be using diodes but if that is the solution then I don't get why that work with ps/2 and not with usb.


----------



## emett

Linus mate i use the f1-f4 keys to control my seating in battlefield.


----------



## cmdrdredd

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Saberfang*


I don't think that matter. If the problem is the polling than a memory stack where the keys pressed are pushed waiting for the next reading should solve it. For what I know when it come to ghosting you have to optimize the keys connection grid to avoid signals to overlap. The best way should be using diodes but if that is the solution then I don't get why that work with ps/2 and not with usb.


I guess cause hardware interrupt always comes first and always gets through.


----------



## ripster

Hah! You should see what Windows does next.

It sits. And thinks.


----------



## Saberfang

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cmdrdredd;15334395*
> I guess cause hardware interrupt always comes first and always gets through.


Ok, but in the keyboards list in the first page of this thread you can see models that support ps/2 but have only 2kro so hardware interrupt doesn't seem to matter not alone at least.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Saberfang*


Ok, but in the keyboards list in the first page of this thread you can see models that support ps/2 but have only 2kro so hardware interrupt doesn't seem to matter not alone at least.


It's because of the way that USB handles packets.

One method for achieving NKRO over USB is to fake it, like the keyboard is actually multiple keyboard. Das tried this in the past, and there was ghosting issues. Noppoo & Ducky tried this as well, and their were problems with OS-X compatibility.

Ducky's newer DK9008-G2 Pro & Leopold keyboards use the alternative method that Microsoft used on the Sidewinder X4 where they report more keys per packet. Allowing you to click up to 11 Keys (on most OS's) or on the latest build of Windows 7, 26 keys. 
This isn't _true NKRO_ but anything over 9 keys will do, because we just don't have enough fingers to utilize more keys than that.


----------



## HWI

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Noppoo & Ducky tried this as well, and their were problems with OS-X compatibility.


Nobody important cares about OSX, so it's a moot point. It works wonderfully in Windows. ;P


----------



## cmdrdredd

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HWI*


Nobody important cares about OSX, so it's a moot point. It works wonderfully in Windows. ;P


Tell that to graphic artists who use macs almost exclusively. I work in the industry and all our software is Mac. Our CTP server is PC but Heidelberg recommended we use a Mac for the client because it has less issues with page layouts and proofing (color matching). Closed system and all...


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Saberfang*


Ok, but in the keyboards list in the first page of this thread you can see models that support ps/2 but have only 2kro so hardware interrupt doesn't seem to matter not alone at least.


And even then it matters little.

The Filco Gen 2 keyboard I am typing this on is running at 1000hz over USB. 1ms delay for packets. Each packet contains MULTIPLE characters.

In other words the connection method is moot when it comes to latencies. Not sure why the OP disagrees.


----------



## HWI

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HWI*


* ;P*



Quote:



Originally Posted by *cmdrdredd*


Tell that to graphic artists who use macs almost exclusively. I work in the industry and all our software is Mac. Our CTP server is PC but Heidelberg recommended we use a Mac for the client because it has less issues with page layouts and proofing (color matching). Closed system and all...


lol

Also, I don't think a graphic artist needs to worry much about NKRO.


----------



## Saberfang

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


And even then it matters little.

The Filco Gen 2 keyboard I am typing this on is running at 1000hz over USB. 1ms delay for packets. Each packet contains MULTIPLE characters.

In other words the connection method is moot when it comes to latencies. Not sure why the OP disagrees.


Mine was only thirst for knowledge







and actually I wanted to know if the 6kro limitation was because they went cheap on the boards or for some usb standard limitation.

At least now I know the answer


----------



## ripster

No, there really is no USB limitation. More just laziness on most keyboard designers part.

Anyway, 6KRO over USB is good enough.


----------



## HWI

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Anyway, 6KRO over USB is good enough.


I agree with this, unless you type with your face.


----------



## LoneWolf15

My Unicomp Customizer 104 just arrived.

Taking it out of the box, I can already tell that the key-feel action is good. However the outer shell isn't anywhere near the quality of my IBM Model M. The angled feet also seem poorly constructed; right now I'm trying to tel if there's a crack in one, or just an odd seam in the plastic.

I'm deciding what I want to do, but I have really mixed feelings right now --I'm wishing I had an original IBM Model M, but with Windows keys (mainly because I like the Windows+R and other such key combos).


----------



## pjBSOD

My carbon vinyl film should be here tomorrow







I'll have some pics up when I'm done with my Das.


----------



## djriful

I think I made my choice, I'm going to pick up *Steelseries 6Gv2* at local store this week. $99, no need to pay for shipping but taxes.

I really hate my $25 keyboard, the CTRL key is starting to wear off.


----------



## asuperpower

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *E-Peen;15377411*
> My carbon vinyl film should be here tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll have some pics up when I'm done with my Das.


I shall also put CF Film on my Das someday.


----------



## csm725

Pics and a guide would be nice, E-Peen.


----------



## pjBSOD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725;15378853*
> Pics and a guide would be nice, E-Peen.


Hmm, I don't think I'll write a guide since I'm just applying vinyl film to a keyboard and cutting it with an X-Acto knife for good cuts. I'll definitely take pictures though whenever I have it all set up. I'm heading to bed soon, hopefully it'll be here when I wake up.


----------



## csm725

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *E-Peen;15378867*
> Hmm, I don't think I'll write a guide since I'm just applying vinyl film to a keyboard and cutting it with an X-Acto knife for good cuts. I'll definitely take pictures though whenever I have it all set up. I'm heading to bed soon, hopefully it'll be here when I wake up.


Awww... Take some progress pics, please?

Sent from my LT15a using Tapatalk


----------



## HoppyBlaster

Based on this forum, I took the leap and purchased a Filco FKBN104M/EB 16 months ago.

As of last week, I get key chattering with my "1" and "5" keys on the keypad. I am not sure if there are others, but when I get it, it is on those keys 95% of the time.

Naturally the keyboard is 4 months past warranty.

While I love the feel of this board for my typing and gaming, I can't work with the chattering. If I don't hear back from elitekeyboards for a possible workaround/replacement, I'm hard pressed to drop another $154 (with shipping and the blue WASD) for a board that may go bad again, especially since I thought these mechanical switches should last way longer than the rubber domes.

If I had/have to do this over again, I will still get the browns. But, back-lighting of the keys would be a plus.

So, should I head over to elitekeyboards and chalk my experience up to really bad luck, or should I drop my $$$ for a Deck, Das, an Overclocks line or someone else?

Thanks folks.


----------



## asuperpower

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725;15378853*
> Pics and a guide would be nice, E-Peen.


Yes. We need some snaps of a Das with CF on it...


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HoppyBlaster;15414031*
> So, should I head over to elitekeyboards and chalk my experience up to really bad luck, or should I drop my $$$ for a Deck, Das, an Overclocks line or someone else?
> 
> Thanks folks.


Between the OCN Ducky DK9008 or DK1008 (since those are the full sized boards), Das, & Leopold FC500R's (EK's Fullsized leopold boards); you should just look at will cost you the least and what you like the best (in terms of looks.)

The Deck is also a good option, but it will be considerably more and only really give you backlighting.


----------



## swoti

I´m a bit lost in all the mechanical boards available. Can you recommend a borad with clears (or browns). Some features I would like to have:
- tenkeyless (not a killer feature)
- backlight
- clears or browns
- no glossysurfaces
- good build quality
- and i f possible a german layout)

Thank you!

Bestwishes Swoti


----------



## HoppyBlaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;15417109*
> Between the OCN Ducky DK9008 or DK1008 (since those are the full sized boards), Das, & Leopold FC500R's (EK's Fullsized leopold boards); you should just look at will cost you the least and what you like the best (in terms of looks.)
> 
> The Deck is also a good option, but it will be considerably more and only really give you backlighting.


Thanks for your quick reply, TT.

So, you think my Filco situation is a fluke, and it's OK to purchase elitekeyboards' products again? I'd really like to get a bullet-proof board before dropping another $150.


----------



## HWI

Quote:



Originally Posted by *swoti*


IÂ´m a bit lost in all the mechanical boards available. Can you recommend a borad with clears (or browns). Some features I would like to have:
- tenkeyless (not a killer feature)
- backlight
- clears or browns
- no glossysurfaces
- good build quality
- and i f possible a german layout







)

Thank you!

Bestwishes Swoti


The only small form factor backlit board is the Deck 82. Though, KBC has one due to come out also.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *swoti*


IÂ´m a bit lost in all the mechanical boards available. Can you recommend a borad with clears (or browns). Some features I would like to have:
- tenkeyless (not a killer feature)
- backlight
- clears or browns
- no glossysurfaces
- good build quality
- and i f possible a german layout







)

Thank you!

Bestwishes Swoti


There will be a KBTalking Pure that's a backlit tenkeyless. As well as a backlit Ducky tenkeyless.

On the other hand; the only other options available right now are the Razer Black Widow Ultimate Stealth or the X-Armor U9BL-S

The DK9008-S Shine should be available at the end of the month, and in browns as well.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HoppyBlaster*


Thanks for your quick reply, TT.

So, you think my Filco situation is a fluke, and it's OK to purchase elitekeyboards' products again? I'd really like to get a bullet-proof board before dropping another $150.


I've got two Filco's and two Leopold's from them (Full sized & tenkeyless on both accounts.) 
As well as numerous other Mechanical boards from various companies; I would definitely chalk it up to a fluke.


----------



## csm725

Grrr. The backlit version of the Poker is in no way related to the Poker. It's the KBTalking Pure or something of the sort. One is Taiwanese, one Chinese.


----------



## HWI

Quote:



Originally Posted by *csm725*


Grrr. The backlit version of the Poker is in no way related to the Poker. It's the KBTalking Pure or something of the sort. One is Taiwanese, one Chinese.










Vortex (run by KBC) is who designed the Poker and they are also who is designing this small form factor backlit keyboard.


----------



## swoti

The backlit tenkeyless ducky is available to the end of the month? With clears?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *swoti*


The backlit tenkeyless ducky is available to the end of the month? With clears?


No, the Shine is a full sized board, and should be available at the end of the month in browns at least. Clears most likely.


----------



## KipH

@HoppyBlaster
Before you go buying a new board, have you tried greasing the stems? I think silicon grease is the recommended type but someone here can tell you.

Next try to dampen the stems. I recommend the dental band method first but if you can't get them the non-stick pad method could help. I silenced mine with non-stick pads and hit helped with the sound but use a thin one or you lose the good feel of the board.

Let us know how that goes.


----------



## Lettuceman

So I spilled some pepsi on my Leopold right before I was leaving for the week. I couldn't immediately clean it as I had to leave, but I just wiped it up and left. I come back a week later and my keys are sticky. I'm going to do the distilled water method, but what are the chances of it cleaning it if its a week old spill?


----------



## gonX

I just pressed the buttons while it was in the tub. That should be fine. And you don't _need_ distilled water, tap water works fine. Or at least Danish tap water works fine.. but we have some of the best tap water in the world


----------



## djriful

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lettuceman*


So I spilled some pepsi on my Leopold right before I was leaving for the week. I couldn't immediately clean it as I had to leave, but I just wiped it up and left. I come back a week later and my keys are sticky. I'm going to do the distilled water method, but what are the chances of it cleaning it if its a week old spill?


Pull all the sticky keys and dip then into warm water with soap for 15. Then rinse it clean. For the internal board. You want to try with a toothbrush with a bit of water and soap. Q-Tip works.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ripster

Congrats on this thread having 2M views!!!!

A Double Toast!


----------



## wyant50

This guide has been very useful in helping me find the right mechanical keyboard. I have ultimately gone with the WASD keyboard with blue cherry switches and couldn't be happier. Its a joy to type on and I have sense watched my average WPM increase along with my accuracy in games. Well worth the money IMO.


----------



## esproductions

Unboxing and first look of the DAS Keyboard Ultimate S Silent





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAFfJxzZ10s[/ame[/URL]]


----------



## HoppyBlaster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kip69*


@HoppyBlaster
Before you go buying a new board, have you tried greasing the stems? I think silicon grease is the recommended type but someone here can tell you.

Next try to dampen the stems. I recommend the dental band method first but if you can't get them the non-stick pad method could help. I silenced mine with non-stick pads and hit helped with the sound but use a thin one or you lose the good feel of the board.

Let us know how that goes.



By the chattering, I mean when I get something like this:
"d d d d dd d d d dd d d d d ddd d d d d d dd ddd d d" when I key the key then the spacebar. You think the cleaning method will fix this type of issue?

Best,
- Rob


----------



## ripster

Well, to be perfectly honest the OP doesn't really address this problem.

Try this.


----------



## KipH

I looked at that thread. It seems to me that they want you to clean it. That is always a good first step. My method could help and is cheep, worth a try before you do something drastic. The third thing would be to remove the switch and replace it, but I would think that would only be an option if it is only the one key and needs you to solder.

Try this. Take some non-slip mat. Cut out a 3x3 bumps square of mat. Then cut the center bump out, making a ring. Slip that over the stem. It will feel like it takes a lot of force to trip the switch now but the thinner the mat the better. Does it chatter now?


----------



## xSalvation

Ive been wondering if I should get the Ducky Shine or the Filco majestouch 2. I can get the ducky shine for 159.99 with $20 shipping and the Filco for $139 on amazon with free shipping. Ive heard that Filco's start to shine very quickly but the keycaps can be easily replaced. I dont know much about the Ducky except it most likely has double shot "super abs" caps that I guess cannot be replaced easily since it has the led's.

Anyone have any suggestions?
What about the noppoo pro or Das S.

Im looking for browns or clears BTW LED preferable.


----------



## Tator Tot

If you're looking at a Backlit board with browns then the only other option right now is the Razer Black Widow Ultimate Stealth.

Though, Razer's quality check and build quality are not very good. Many issues have been reported with LEDs dying early.

If you don't need the backlighting though, and you're a student, I would strongly consider the Das as it's ~$110 with a student discount.


----------



## barugon

Apologies if this question has been answered somewhere in the depths of this massive thread; I couldn't find it, or, if I did, I didn't completely understand it.

I'm looking to buy my first mechanical keyboard for a new gaming rig and I figured I'd go the ps/2 route. The OP was hugely informative and has answered about all of the questions I've had, but what I'm wondering is, seeing how most motherboards no longer have ps/2 ports, is ps/2 still advantageous?

What I mean is, do I stand to gain the same benefits running a ps/2 keyboard through a USB converter, or does the keyboard not follow the protocol of the USB port at that point?

I'm guessing I'm missing some presumed basic idea to how the ports work/communicate to the CPU, but I'd hate to buy a $100+ keyboard without having some understanding.

Thanks for the help!


----------



## Fortunex

I feel zero difference between USB and PS/2 for gaming, and I never hit 4+ buttons at a time anyways so I don't miss NKRO.

I'd see PS/2 as an additional bonus just in case, but I wouldn't let it have any say in my choice of keyboard.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *barugon*


Apologies if this question has been answered somewhere in the depths of this massive thread; I couldn't find it, or, if I did, I didn't completely understand it.

I'm looking to buy my first mechanical keyboard for a new gaming rig and I figured I'd go the ps/2 route. The OP was hugely informative and has answered about all of the questions I've had, but what I'm wondering is, seeing how most motherboards no longer have ps/2 ports, is ps/2 still advantageous?

What I mean is, do I stand to gain the same benefits running a ps/2 keyboard through a USB converter, or does the keyboard not follow the protocol of the USB port at that point?


Running it through a PS2 to USB Converter, or a USB to PS2 converter will be fine on most keyboards. You'll get the benefits either way.

On the other hand, PS/2 ports are still on most motherboards sold in the consumer market.


----------



## ripster

If the mechanical keyboard you are buying is USB only (like many of the gaming Mechanical Keyboards shipping today) I sure wouldn't lose sleep over it. Pick the keyboard that best meets your needs.

Personally I consider that section of the guide obsolete.


----------



## KipH

As the others have said, the ability to use PS/2 is not vital anymore. First find the board you like. If it supports NKRO over PS/2 it is worth plugging it in to the PS/2slot. If not, USB will be fine. If it has modified or extended the roll over using USB then you should go with that.


----------



## ripster

Even if it HAS PS/2 capability why bother if you NEVER WILL SEE A LATENCY DIFFERENCE!

After all, the number of people that need >6KRO(+4modifiers) I can count on my third hand.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ripster*


Even if it HAS PS/2 capability why bother if you NEVER WILL SEE A LATENCY DIFFERENCE!

After all, the number of people that need >6KRO(+4modifiers) I can count on my third hand.


I'm honored to be on your third hand.


----------



## djriful

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I'm honored to be on your third hand.


It sounds so wrong.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *djriful*


It sounds so wrong.


...but it _feels_ so right.


----------



## ripster

Ewwwwww..............


----------



## Fletcherea

This quick question doesn't really merit a new thread...Picking out a mech(going to be 1st time owner) for the wife to "surprise" me with this coming holiday season. Definitely going 10keyless, and thinking going blacks, reason being I CRUSH my keys(I swear my dubya key has to be surgically removed from being in between 2 and 3!) while playing, not so much so typing though. Hoping that bit of extra resistance helps me out a bit, what do you guys think, blacks sound about right for a key crusher =) ?

*edit* I live out in the damn sticks, and have no place to try out some switches in store that wouldn't involve taking a small vacation to get there!


----------



## Fortunex

Blacks or buckling spring sounds about right for you. You my also want some o-ring key dampener things so you don't bottom out too hard.


----------



## KipH

I would also say Blacks or buckling spring sounds about right for you. Try an old model M


----------



## Tator Tot

If you want Tenkeyless; then Blacks is really the only option since a Tenkeyless Buckling Springs board is pretty huge and not easily available.

I would suggest getting O-Ring dampeners though if you want a quieter experience.


----------



## Fletcherea

Thanks folks, looks like my brain was on the right track, thanks for the re assurance!


----------



## nonamed

Hi mates ,

Does anyone know any Reseller in Europe where I can get Happy Hacking Pro2 keyboard ?? Or any other distributor with reasonable shipping costs to EU ??









Regards.


----------



## Necrodox

Mechanical, white LED backlit, any ideas guys? I want to buy one really bad.


----------



## HWI

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Necrodox*


Mechanical, white LED backlit, any ideas guys? I want to buy one really bad.


The only white backlit mechanical board I know of is the yet to be released OCN edition of the Ducky Shine.


----------



## Necrodox

DAMN, I was afraid of that.

My wait continues, a little off topic but does the Razer Mamba 2012 edition feature white as one of the colors?


----------



## TheOddOne

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Necrodox*


DAMN, I was afraid of that.

My wait continues, a little off topic but does the Razer Mamba 2012 edition feature white as one of the colors?


Yeah, it will have multi-colored LED, but i don't see white on the color circle


----------



## Fletcherea

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Necrodox*


Mechanical, white LED backlit, any ideas guys? I want to buy one really bad.


This looks like it comes close to fitting the bill(not fully backlit), should be out soon!


----------



## ripster

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Necrodox*


DAMN, I was afraid of that.

My wait continues, a little off topic but does the Razer Mamba 2012 edition feature white as one of the colors?


It's hard to be offtopic in this thread.


----------



## TheOddOne

My friend who plays SC2, which keyboard should he get for ~$100 ? I told him black/blue would be best imo, just want to know what you guys think ?


----------



## Fortunex

As a SC2 player I'd suggest blues or browns, maybe reds. There's a lot of keystrokes in SC2, blacks would be quite fatiguing. I personally use browns and they're fantastic.


----------



## zackadavis

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TheOddOne*


My friend who plays SC2, which keyboard should he get for ~$100 ? I told him black/blue would be best imo, just want to know what you guys think ?


For starcraft I would definitely avoid blacks because they can get heavy after a while. I would honestly go with browns, because of blues' issues with double tapping.


----------



## yuigita

Great guide!


----------



## r4pture

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HWI*


The only white backlit mechanical board I know of is the yet to be released OCN edition of the Ducky Shine.


And the Deck Legend Frost


----------



## Necrodox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fletcherea;15513202*
> This looks like it comes close to fitting the bill(not fully backlit), should be out soon!


Ahhh!!! I would be all over that but I want a fully backlit keyboard, why is there always some little thing about a product that kills it for me.

*sigh*


----------



## djriful

Go to sleep stop playing at night... =P /just kidding


----------



## Necrodox

NEVER! I will get my white backlight!


----------



## HWI

Quote:



Originally Posted by *r4pture*


And the Deck Legend Frost


Good call. I always forget about Deck for some reason.


----------



## The Ricker

I'm trying to decide what type of switch to get. I've been using an old Model M I got from work for the last few months and before that I was using a laptop style keyboard. I like the feel of the Model M, but I wouldn't mind something quieter. I'm thinking about getting a Ducky Shine when they come in. Which Cherry switch is most like buckling spring but with less noise?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *The Ricker*


I'm trying to decide what type of switch to get. I've been using an old Model M I got from work for the last few months and before that I was using a laptop style keyboard. I like the feel of the Model M, but I wouldn't mind something quieter. I'm thinking about getting a Ducky Shine when they come in. Which Cherry switch is most like buckling spring but with less noise?


Cherry MX-Clear switches; though so far no one has stocked Cherry MX-Clear versions and I don't have a clear ETA as to when they will be in stock.

Cherry MX-Blacks are similar in the force required to actuate the switch, but they're linear (so no tactile feedback or sound.) 
With soft landing pads or dampeners, they're very quiet while still being quiet responsive.


----------



## The Ricker

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Cherry MX-Clear switches; though so far no one has stocked Cherry MX-Clear versions and I don't have a clear ETA as to when they will be in stock.

Cherry MX-Blacks are similar in the force required to actuate the switch, but they're linear (so no tactile feedback or sound.) 
With soft landing pads or dampeners, they're very quiet while still being quiet responsive.


Thanks! I'm not in a rush to get a new keyboard, so I'll probably wait for the Shine with the white LED's and clear switches then.


----------



## csm725

Ninja'd by Spudderson. HAX


----------



## lightsout

Thanks for this guide, it let me to my recent purchase of a WASD with browns. I have to say I love typing on this thing. I tried out my old HP keyboard after a couple days on this and OMG, what a difference.


----------



## culexor

Just ordered a Das Keyboard Silent (MX Brown). I was able to take advantage of their 20% student discount. Can't wait for it to arrive!


----------



## Kreeker

I just used my first mechanical keyboard, a Filco Majestouch-2, yesterday. Wow is all I can say. Night and day difference. I need one NOW!


----------



## Pr0grammer1

I'm looking at purchasing my first mechanical keyboard and was looking to get some advice:

I'm a college student (so lower price = better, but I'm willing to splurge a bit if it makes a difference). I'm currently using a Logitech Wave, which I love the shape of, but I haven't seen any mechanical keyboards with a similar shape -- Do any exist, or am I stuck with picking between flat and hardcore ergonomic?

I don't need a backlight. Media controls would definitely be preferred, but a lack of them wouldn't be a deal-breaker. I don't do a huge amount of gaming; most of my time on the computer is spent either typing or coding. It looks like Cherry MX Blue switches are probably a safe bet; am I correct there?

Given my situation, does anyone have any recommendations (the more specific, the better) as for what to look for?


----------



## Tator Tot

There's the Chicony KB-7001, which is similar.

Though it's an old keyboard and hard to find. It's also not _that_ great. I wouldn't spend more than $60 on it.

Ergonomic mechanical boards are usually hard to come by and very expensive.


----------



## Qu1cK

Someone can answer this?

SteelSeries 6Gv2 used keys PBT or ABS? And stabilizers used?

Thanks.


----------



## HWI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1cK;15615998*
> Someone can answer this?
> 
> SteelSeries 6Gv2 used keys PBT or ABS? And stabilizers used?
> 
> Thanks.


It has ABS keycaps and uses Cherry stabilizers, though I believe the enter key has an oddball stabilizer.


----------



## sepheroth003

Do we know enough about the Corsair ones coming out to add them to the list? I've never used a mechanical keyboard but I am very intrigued, my Razer Lycosa is a piece of crap!

http://www.corsair.com/vengeance-k60-performance-fps-mechanical-gaming-keyboard.html

http://www.corsair.com/vengeance-gaming/vengeance-gaming-keyboards/vengeance-k90-performance-mmo-mechanical-gaming-keyboard.html


----------



## csm725

They have rubber dome macros/numpad. So we frown on it.








Some will say I'm elitist, but for the price point rubber dome switches are not acceptable.


----------



## HWI

I agree with csm. If they went for $60 then it would be ok, but they are competing against boards that didn't cheap out.


----------



## hayesj23

I'm looking for a nice, small and compact mechanical keyboard. I've never used mechanical keyboards before. I've been using a Microsoft Multimedia Keyboard for the past 5 years and never thought to upgrade it but now it takes up too much desk space.

Anyone have a recommendation? I don't want to spend more than 125~


----------



## bavman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hayesj23*
> 
> I'm looking for a nice, small and compact mechanical keyboard. I've never used mechanical keyboards before. I've been using a Microsoft Multimedia Keyboard for the past 5 years and never thought to upgrade it but now it takes up too much desk space.
> Anyone have a recommendation? I don't want to spend more than 125~


elitekeyboards.com has leopolds in red/black/blue/browns/clears. Fullsize and tenkeyless, $109 + shipping. Theyre pretty nice keyboards.


----------



## HWI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hayesj23*
> 
> I'm looking for a nice, small and compact mechanical keyboard. I've never used mechanical keyboards before. I've been using a Microsoft Multimedia Keyboard for the past 5 years and never thought to upgrade it but now it takes up too much desk space.
> Anyone have a recommendation? I don't want to spend more than 125~


You can get a tenkeyless from Leopold, Ducky, CM Storm, or PLU for under $125. If you want to go even smaller have a look at the Noppoo Choc Mini and the KBC Poker, both are under $125 and are very compact.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> There's the Chicony KB-7001, which is similar.
> Though it's an old keyboard and hard to find. It's also not _that_ great. I wouldn't spend more than $60 on it.
> Ergonomic mechanical boards are usually hard to come by and very expensive.


Hey, it's got doubleshots. I sold one for $100, and I don't think it was a bad deal considering scarcity.


----------



## kevingreenbmx

aww... so many of the pictures are missing :-(


----------



## freedumb

about the rosewill drawback, the rk-9000's now come with a usb and a ps/2 cable (not sure if this has been mentioned yet)


----------



## hajabooja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freedumb*
> 
> about the rosewill drawback, the rk-9000's now come with a usb and a ps/2 cable (not sure if this has been mentioned yet)


Yup, using PS/2 with mine and I love it!


----------



## DrBrownfinger

any thoughts on the corsair k60 and k90? thinking about pre ordering.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevingreenbmx*
> 
> aww... so many of the pictures are missing :-(


Bummer. And mine were so good too!


----------



## HWI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrBrownfinger*
> 
> any thoughts on the corsair k60 and k90? thinking about pre ordering.


It's an overpriced hybrid banking on selling by name, it's cost put it in the same bracket as keyboards that are fully mechanical.


----------



## redshoulder

Where can I find alps Keycaps? just need arrow and wasd keys.


----------



## HWI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *redshoulder*
> 
> Where can I find alps Keycaps? just need arrow and wasd keys.


If you are fine with ABS, then WASD Keyboards would probably be your best bet.


----------



## magna224

Where are ALPS keycaps on WASD?

*took an hour to find edit post button.

I couldn't find them when I looked for them and I didn't think they made them since all of their boards are Cherry MX switches.


----------



## HWI

Sorry dude, I totally did not notice you said Alps. I have no clue where to get Alps keycaps.


----------



## magna224

Finding good ALPS keycaps is a big problem in our modern society, similar to starving African children and teen pregnancy.


----------



## ripster

The funny flashing DIODES are back in the OP!

I never did figure that animated gif out.

Too bad about that list of keyboards by switch though. I'd either update it or nuke it.


----------



## asuperpower

Is there a keyboard like the Das in the way that it has clear keys? I'd purchase the Ducky OC.N edition but it hasn't got blank keys.

I just got new windows. I now have had some water. I was very thirsty.


----------



## csm725

ASP, yeah. Leopold Otaku from EliteKeyboards.


----------



## asuperpower

I need the numeric keypad though. I think I'll have to stick with Das for now.


----------



## HWI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *asuperpower*
> 
> I need the numeric keypad though. I think I'll have to stick with Das for now.


They have the full size otaku Leopolds in stock...


----------



## asuperpower

Hmmm... what are the advantages and disadvantages compared to the Das Model S Ultimate Silent?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster*
> 
> The funny flashing DIODES are back in the OP!
> I never did figure that animated gif out.
> Too bad about that list of keyboards by switch though. I'd either update it or nuke it.


Got a new Keyboard Editor. Things shall be reworked and updated as soon as possible.


----------



## Skoobs

would like to see clears added to "keyboard by switch type"

i know deck frost and tg3 and leopold tenkeyless could be added, and im pretty sure theres a ducky. will try to find.


----------



## ripster

Oh boy! Maybe we can get down to the bottom of this lased versus lasered versus lazered thing.


----------



## csm725

Lasered - The used of a laser to remove inclusions from inside a gem
Lazered - Not a word, similar to how lazer isn't a word.
*Lased - Undergo the physical processes employed in a laser*


----------



## HWI

Nobody gives a crap about your dictionary csm, it's obviously lazered because the letter z is cooler than the letter s.


----------



## csm725

No need to be so harsh


----------



## ripster

Please. Keep it civil.

I suggest "laser marked".

That's what Signature Plastics uses.

http://www.keycapsdirect.com/facility.php


----------



## csm725

See HWI - laser marking, not lazer marking. L2English


----------



## Skoobs

laser = engraved ?


----------



## ripster

Usually. But sometimes not.

I pity the new editor.


----------



## HWI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skoobs*
> 
> laser = engraved ?


Check out this page, you can see the difference between the two there.


----------



## reaper~

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster*
> 
> I pity the new editor.


I feel the same way.









At least I'll try to do a better job of removing all your watermarks first before include it in this guide.









j/k


----------



## Crazy9000

Lased keys are probably going to be engraved unless they're anodized aluminum, where you would use the laser to burn the anodizing so it's a different color.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reaper~*
> 
> I feel the same way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least I'll try to do a better job of removing all your watermarks first before include it in this guide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> j/k


Remember, my lawyer is watching for that!


I don't particularly like the WASD terminology either.

"Hey babe, come up to my room and see my WASD etchings!"

Wikipedia is on MY side.


----------



## Skoobs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HWI*
> 
> Check out this page, you can see the difference between the two there.


so theres two different kinds, laser etched and laser engraved.

therefore those should be the names for them. /thread ---> oh wait this thread isnt about that.


----------



## csm725

Laser can also be infilled.


----------



## Crazy9000

infilled is just engraved with the mark filled in.


----------



## Citra

Das Professional Silent will be in my hands this Monday!


----------



## csm725

You are wanted for avatar theft


----------



## Sabot

Wow... what a thread.... Just when I thought I found the board for me... i read another post and another great idea.

I am looking for the best lit board for my FPS use.


----------



## skwannabe

I tried googling for an answer but I can't get my 7g to work with my hackintosh. I don't know if its allowed to talk about it here in the forums, but anyone have any ideas how to get it to work?


----------



## roadlesstraveled

Does the Noppoo Choc Mini from qtan come with PBT keycaps or the regular POM keycaps?


----------



## csm725

POM caps.


----------



## Montago

So... after i found this article #0 My eyes for mechanical keyboards have opened !!

And after 1 week of research, i've found WASDKeyboards.com that lets you customize your keyboard exactly like you want it !

I therefore think that you should add WASDKeyboards to the list on the first few posts









GREAT ARTICLE !!!


----------



## 16xd

Hey, first post here.
Can someone tell me something about this Cherry keyboard ? I want to get my hands on my first mechanical keyboard, and was thinking maybe something older could be good.


----------



## magna224

In cherry keyboards G80s are mechanical G81 are cheap rubber domes.


----------



## KipH

phaedrus has some for sale. The ricecar is a nice one but a bit much









phaedrus-for-sale-thread


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> phaedrus has some for sale. The ricecar is a nice one but a bit much
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> phaedrus-for-sale-thread


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Montago*
> 
> So... after i found this article #0 My eyes for mechanical keyboards have opened !!
> And after 1 week of research, i've found WASDKeyboards.com that lets you customize your keyboard exactly like you want it !
> I therefore think that you should add WASDKeyboards to the list on the first few posts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GREAT ARTICLE !!!


The list of keyboards in the OP is hopelessly out of date. Speaking of Phaedrus......


----------



## waar

I think that's reaper's problem now


----------



## crun

hey,
i have noticed today that my "z" key in steelseries 6gv2 isnt working properly. i need to press it heavily on the right side, to have like 20% chance of registering keystroke. it doesnt register hits at all if pressed in the middle or on left side. really strange and hard to describe, but it makes "z" key almost unusable. i didnt damage it in anyway for sure (spilling, hitting etc). ive tried swapping keycaps, tested it without any keycap on, cleaned up whole keyboard... still the same. seems like there is something wrong with the spring inside the switch (black)

anyone has ever encounter anything similliar? can i fix it on my own? should i make a complaint? (dunno if it is the correct expression lol) although, afaik it might take over 1 month before i get my keyboard back :/ i think there is no steelseries warranty repair in poland.


----------



## Crazy9000

Attempting to fix the switch on your own will surely void your warranty... but 1 month is pretty bad too. The standard advise would be to take it apart and clean it out, and see if you notice anything obviously wrong while you do that.


----------



## ripster

Check this and report back.


----------



## reaper~

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adamwillianm201*
> 
> all are out of date? that's a pity.


Waiting for Tator to give me the go-ahead. lol I also wanted to add a CM Storm & Ducky 1087XM. Anything else I missed please post them here.


----------



## HWI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reaper~*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *adamwillianm201*
> 
> all are out of date? that's a pity.
> 
> 
> 
> Waiting for Tator to give me the go-ahead. lol I also wanted to add a CM Storm & Ducky 1087XM. Anything else I missed please post them here.
Click to expand...

Maybe add the Stealth version of the BW, Mionix Zibal, PLU, Noppoo Pro and Choc Mini, and KBC Poker.


----------



## reaper~

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HWI*
> 
> Maybe add the Stealth version of the BW, Mionix Zibal, PLU, Noppoo Pro and Choc Mini, and KBC Poker.


No problem. I got all of them except BW Stealth & Mionix.


----------



## Tator Tot

The information isn't out of date, it was just the keyboard lists.

Though, the past year has seen an explosion of mechanicals out of Asia. Reaper will be working to get this up to date and I'll help him when I have more time to.


----------



## csm725

KBTalking Pure, Race
All the HHKB versions, uniform and variable
The Chinese clones we've seen lately


----------



## KipH

I found a fun little board. Don't know if want but would like to test drive:
Optimus Popularis


----------



## Lettuceman

Is the only difference between the normal Filco majetouch and the ninja just the keycaps?


----------



## Kreeker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lettuceman*
> 
> Is the only difference between the normal Filco majetouch and the ninja just the keycaps?


Yeah pretty much. Although I think the ninjas come with a Keycap remover. The ninja with mx blacks come with red leds though.


----------



## Lettuceman

Alright because I'm about to buy a filco, and wanted to make sure that was the only difference.

I'm replacing the keycaps so if the ninja only has a different set of caps, then there is no reason to spend $10 more on it.

Thanks!


----------



## JacobKay97

I was told they made some PCB changes, but apparently it was only minor.


----------



## ripster

Gen2>Gen1

1000hz over USB!

Woohoo!

This in the OP btw isn't technically correct. I doubt the CPU drops everything without Windows having something to say about it.
Quote:


> So really, any polling rate over 200Hz (at best) is absolutely useless, and nothing but market hype. It may even be a bit detrimental, because you'd be wasting CPU time polling the keyboard unneededly. And unlike USB keyboards, PS/2 boards aren't polled at all. They simply send the signal to the PC whenever they are ready to, which causes a hardware interrupt, forcing the CPU to register that keystroke.


Otherwise in the OCN Mouse subforum everybody would be recommending PS/2 mice.


----------



## jellowiggler

Also add the Corsair K60 and K90. Tt meka g unit.


----------



## kevinf

There is a nice explaination and active demo to show if you keyboard is not reporting all the keys pressed. Here is some more information: http://www.microsoft.com/appliedsciences/content/projects/AntiGhostingExplained.aspx

perhaps you could add it to the first post(s)?


----------



## ripster

I never did understand the blinking lights Manyak did.

Should have one of those obnoxious gaming epilepsy warnings.


----------



## Aoide

Hello, I'm completely new, but I thought I might want to mention that the Leopold Tenkeyless keyboards now have all the different colored Cherry MX switches: Blue, Black, Brown,Clear, and Red, all for $110 (right now there's a sale on the MX Red one, it's $89)

Does anyone else use the red switches? That's what I got because they seem perfect for the types of games I play, and it was $20 cheaper. I placed the order but it won't be here for a bit.


----------



## csm725

Lots of people like reds. If you can imagine yourself wanting a bit of a bump then get browns.


----------



## Kosai

What's the word on the Razer BlackWidow Ultimate Stealth Edition?

Yay or Nay? I'm looking to upgrade from my Saitek Cyborg V5









And I REALLY want to get that keyboard, but I want to double check with you mechanical keyboard buffs whether or not it's a good choice, AND if I can find a better keyboard in that price range?

Also, another question; would a IBM Model M, or other IBM variant mechanical keyboard be better in gaming vs the above said keyboard in question?


----------



## tuffstuff

for the price range there are better options from what I have seen in the last week doing research.

I was looking at the same keyboard but the quality on some sounded like my lycosa so I passed.

I went with the thermaltake meka g1. But that was because I had 100 best buy reward cert. For the same price I believe you can get into the ducky and das and filcos.


----------



## tuffstuff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aoide*
> 
> Hello, I'm completely new, but I thought I might want to mention that the Leopold Tenkeyless keyboards now have all the different colored Cherry MX switches: Blue, Black, Brown,Clear, and Red, all for $110 (right now there's a sale on the MX Red one, it's $89)
> Does anyone else use the red switches? That's what I got because they seem perfect for the types of games I play, and it was $20 cheaper. I placed the order but it won't be here for a bit.


leopolds also right above ur post for 110


----------



## Kosai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tuffstuff*
> 
> for the price range there are better options from what I have seen in the last week doing research.
> I was looking at the same keyboard but the quality on some sounded like my lycosa so I passed.
> I went with the thermaltake meka g1. But that was because I had 100 best buy reward cert. For the same price I believe you can get into the ducky and das and filcos.


Oh wow, so it smokes the Black Widow?






Anything better? This will be my first and well hopefully my only mechanical, keyboard I would like the best I could buy for the money.


----------



## KipH

The Razer BlackWidow Ultimate Stealth Edition is a toy. Almost anything would be better. Look at a CM storm, filco or wasd board. Or go OCN and by a Ducky off the OCN sale. We have even given some away.


----------



## Kosai

So a ducky 9008 would be the choice, now Blue or Brown MX Switches for FPS's?


----------



## KipH

Switch is a harder and more personal choice. If you do more typing then gaming Blue would be OK for you. Some gamers who double tap very rapidly and without fully depressing the key will not like blue. The click is also an issue but it is quieter than the clack of bottoming out the keys.

Brown is a fine switch for both, but again is not ideal for the double tap at elite pro levels. Black is preferred or Red if you have a very light and delicate touch.

I like my Browns and found Red a bit too light for my thumping fingers.


----------



## Allen86

What switch type would you think be best for a rhythm game? I play a few games (fps, mmo, etc) but namely a rhythm game osu, for those that have used differen't switch types, what would you think would provide the best results in games like this? Here's a video of a kid playing that game so you get an idea of how its played (using 2 keys)


----------



## Kosai

Now i'm looking at a Filco with Red switches.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Filco-Majestouch-2-NKR-104-ASCII-Red-Switch-Keyboard-FKBN104MR-EB2-FILCKF15-/180783147337?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item2a1783e949

Thoughts? Anything better with backlit possibly?

BTW Im adding rep to helpful users, I really want to make a purchase tonight.


----------



## Allen86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kosai*
> 
> Now i'm looking at a Filco with Red switches.....
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Filco-Majestouch-2-NKR-104-ASCII-Red-Switch-Keyboard-FKBN104MR-EB2-FILCKF15-/180783147337?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item2a1783e949
> Thoughts? Anything better with backlit possibly?
> BTW Im adding rep to helpful users, I really want to make a purchase tonight.


I don't know of any boards off hand that have red switches with a back light except the corsair k90 which is a hybrid board. Deck Boards might have a red board, I don't think they do though. Filco's are good from what I hear, quality wise so that shouldn't be of concern.


----------



## Elvandar

Ducky Shining is backlit and comes with red switches. You have a few options where to buy from, also:

1. Tank Guys (OCN edition): http://www.tankguys.com/mechnical-keyboards/cherry-mx-red-switches/ducky-shine-keyboard-mx-overclock-net-edition-red-abs.html

2. Tiger Imports: http://tigerimports.net/sunshop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=11529

3. Qtan: http://www.vendio.com/stores/E-sports-Gaming-equipments/item/mechanical-keyboard-ducky/new-ducky-shining-pre-order-ar/lid=19244191


----------



## csm725

There are backlit Ducky Shines in MX Red switches.
http://www.tankguys.com/site-merchandise/ducky-shine-keyboard-mx-overclock-net-edition-red-abs.html
OCN branded too.
Try those out.


----------



## Elvandar

umm...


----------



## csm725

Whoops, lol. I opened all of my subs, got to this one last, then posted and closed the tab.


----------



## Kosai

Well I ended up customizing one off the WASD site. Decided to go with MX Cherry Reds. I call it the Super Mechanica. (I haven't ordered it yet)










My design was inspired by Super Famicom Controller: (everything else was just random/Experimental)


----------



## lightsout

Thats some serious color there.


----------



## magna224

I don't use a keyboard when I play osu! =P but my friend liked my MX Black board best. (I think) because after playing osu with it he said he wanted to get MX Blacks after trying a few boards.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allen86*
> 
> What switch type would you think be best for a rhythm game? I play a few games (fps, mmo, etc) but namely a rhythm game osu, for those that have used differen't switch types, what would you think would provide the best results in games like this? Here's a video of a kid playing that game so you get an idea of how its played (using 2 keys)


----------



## azianai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kosai*
> 
> Now i'm looking at a Filco with Red switches.....
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Filco-Majestouch-2-NKR-104-ASCII-Red-Switch-Keyboard-FKBN104MR-EB2-FILCKF15-/180783147337?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item2a1783e949
> Thoughts? Anything better with backlit possibly?
> BTW Im adding rep to helpful users, I really want to make a purchase tonight.


i know you ended up with the WASD board, but i just wanted to chime in. I recently bought this Filco last week, and after a weekend i can't imagine myself using another keyboard
it just feels so much more sturdy and is a joy to game on. I had the Adesso MX Blue which was fine for typing, but a PITA for gaming. Now with my Filco with the red switches and soft landing pads, i can type fast, and gaming doesn't hurt the hand anymore.


----------



## goodtobeking

I am awaiting my new MECH keyboard. I won a OCN Ducky off the last giveaway. I asked Chipp if he could send me one with blue switches. My Deck with browns is great, but now I wanna try blues.


----------



## csm725

Deck with browns?


----------



## waar

unless he modded the board or knows somebody at TG3.. those are black switches


----------



## Chilly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Allen86*
> 
> What switch type would you think be best for a rhythm game? I play a few games (fps, mmo, etc) but namely a rhythm game osu, for those that have used differen't switch types, what would you think would provide the best results in games like this? Here's a video of a kid playing that game so you get an idea of how its played (using 2 keys)


Try out the Cherry MX Blue's. That's what I use to play Stepmania, works fine for me. Although it might not since you have to let the keys travel above the actuation point which is roughly just a tiny bit half way.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kosai*
> 
> Well I ended up customizing one off the WASD site. Decided to go with MX Cherry Reds. I call it the Super Mechanica. (I haven't ordered it yet)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My design was inspired by Super Famicom Controller: (everything else was just random/Experimental)


I still have the system in my closet


----------



## HWI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *goodtobeking*
> 
> I am awaiting my new MECH keyboard. I won a OCN Ducky off the last giveaway. I asked Chipp if he could send me one with blue switches. My Deck with browns is great, but now I wanna try blues.


Decks only come with clear and black switches man.


----------



## csm725

Lawl see I knew something was wrong.


----------



## goodtobeking

....When I bought it used, I was under the impression it had Browns. Oh well. Still a good solid keyboard.

Main difference between blacks and browns is less click right?? Maybe less tactile??

Now I am even more excited to get my new board

EDIT: According to this page my board has Clear switches. The "Code Number" is the same as my boards Model Number.

Man, now I feel like a noob.


----------



## tuffstuff

just got to type the first couple words on my tt meka g1. the switches seem little hard to push down with the mx blacks but they also have like a cushion feel on every keystroke. defiantly am loving this keyboard alot more than my lycosa.


----------



## NinetyOne

Hahaha the lycosa is the reason I will never touch another razer product again.


----------



## tuffstuff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NinetyOne*
> 
> Hahaha the lycosa is the reason I will never touch another razer product again.


same. besides my naga and deathadder im done with razer.


----------



## lightsout

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tuffstuff*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *NinetyOne*
> 
> Hahaha the lycosa is the reason I will never touch another razer product again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> same. besides my naga and deathadder im done with razer.
Click to expand...

Never had a razer keyboard but my lefty deathadder is awesome!


----------



## asuperpower

Oh no... the mechanical keyboard guide's conversation topic is Razer... this is not good.









When do you guys think OCN's next generation of mechanical keyboards will come out? (For those that don't know...)


----------



## Aventadoor

Hey!

After so many annyoing problem with my Razer Lycosa, ive desided to go try out mechanical keyboards!
I have to say, the ideal keyboard for me would be one with flat keys, like on lapstops. But I asume that would be hard to find!
Which keyboards would you guys recommend me?
Its goin 2 be used for hardcore gaming! Mostly FPS

Thank you


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Hey!
> After so many annyoing problem with my Razer Lycosa, ive desided to go try out mechanical keyboards!
> I have to say, the ideal keyboard for me would be one with flat keys, like on lapstops. But I asume that would be hard to find!
> Which keyboards would you guys recommend me?
> Its goin 2 be used for hardcore gaming! Mostly FPS
> Thank you


Most of the talk about mechanicals here is with the Cherry MX switches. Due to the physical size of the switches, low profile keys like the lycosa has wouldn't be possible. I am not aware of any model that has flat profile key caps, as opposed to the more sculpted traditional keys, but don't see why that wouldn't be possible...

Given that you like the flat profile keys and will be doing FPS gaming, I would recommend staying away from keyboards containing the Cherry MX *Blue* switch. Unfortunately a lot of the popular options contain this switch!

Personally I would recommend trying the Leopold Linear touch: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,fullsize&pid=fc500rrab

or Force: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,fullsize&pid=fc500rlab

(Depends on how much resistance you would like from the key, the force having a harder press, and the touch having a lighter press)

They are not low profile in any way however.


----------



## magna224

One of cherry's recent prototype keyboards looked like it had some short keycaps which might give it a similar feel. You might want to look around for it, but I don't think they will actually be sold, or at least I have not heard of any real information on them besides pictures.


----------



## waar

Don't decks have flat keys?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waar*
> 
> Don't decks have flat keys?


The key caps are flat overall, but individually they aren't. If you look at a laptop keyboard, the tops of each cap are flat. I think that gives it at least some of the feel.


----------



## Aoide

Stupid question, but are there any low profile keycaps that will fit a Leopold Tenkeyless? I can deal with the space bar not being changed, but I do love low profile keys...


----------



## HWI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aoide*
> 
> Stupid question, but are there any low profile keycaps that will fit a Leopold Tenkeyless? I can deal with the space bar not being changed, but I do love low profile keys...


I'm not 100% sure what you mean by low profile, but if you mean shorter, then no. The stem of Charry MX switches makes it pretty well impossible to have shorter keycaps than what is already on the board. If you pop a keycap off you will see what I am talking about.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HWI*
> 
> I'm not 100% sure what you mean by low profile, but if you mean shorter, then no. The stem of Charry MX switches makes it pretty well impossible to have shorter keycaps than what is already on the board. If you pop a keycap off you will see what I am talking about.


It would be possible to have the tops like laptop keys though, just with longer travel distance. I just don't know of any


----------



## csm725

Yes it would, and you can also take a look at the "wet newspaper" Cherry MY's which are low profile.


----------



## KipH

Have you looked at scissor switch boards? They may be low like what you are wanting. The X4 is a good board and Irocks makes a nice one too.
Here is an Irocks list:

This one has a nice look: KR-6402-BK

Good luck


----------



## Aoide

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Have you looked at scissor switch boards? They may be low like what you are wanting. The X4 is a good board and Irocks makes a nice one too.
> Here is an Irocks list:
> This one has a nice look: KR-6402-BK
> Good luck


No sadly, scissor switches don't have the key rollover or the polling that I need for gaming from my experience...


----------



## Crazy9000

The sidewinder should work good. 26 key rollover.

Polling shouldn't be an issue with any keyboard, even free Dell ones... if there is any amount of delay something is incredibly wrong with your keyboard.


----------



## coffeejunky

Look for Cherry G84-4100 with ML switches, or a SIIG Minitouch (make sure you get the mechanical version, I believe they also do a horrid membrane version too).
ML switches do have issues with baulking or sticking when keys are hit off-centre though, so they aren't always a great choice.
I'd just get a leopold if I were you though. I was a long-term scissor switch user and thought I would have issues going to a higher profile mechanical keyboard, but the tactility and feel more than make up for it. Not had any finger strain.


----------



## TheOddOne

Hey guys, I don't know if it's appropriate to ask it here but my backspace and enter keys are having problem right now, it feels really "itchy" and "sticky" if you know what I mean, should I take them out and clean them ? first thing in mind is there is Coke liquid under the keys, however, I don't know why it only happens to 2 keys but not the rest.


----------



## Nhb93

Are there any MX Blue boards with old school layouts? By that I mean the double row Enter key and the short single key sized backspace key. I've been using this keyboard, minus a 2 year or so break for literally my entire typing life. I have no idea what switches it has, just that it's a Chicony KB-2961. Some say it's a dome keyboard, but it does type much better than the G15 I had, which makes me doubt that it has domes. No idea how to take the keys off, don't want to damage it.


----------



## Motokiume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NinetyOne*
> 
> Hahaha the lycosa is the reason I will never touch another razer product again.











Same here, I've got the Lycosa at the moment and cannot wait to get rid of it.
I'm still undecided on which between Cherry Black, blue and brown. I can be a bit ham-fisted, so I think the Cherry Black might suit me best.


----------



## lightsout

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nhb93*
> 
> Are there any MX Blue boards with old school layouts? By that I mean the double row Enter key and the short single key sized backspace key. I've been using this keyboard, minus a 2 year or so break for literally my entire typing life. I have no idea what switches it has, just that it's a Chicony KB-2961. Some say it's a dome keyboard, but it does type much better than the G15 I had, which makes me doubt that it has domes. No idea how to take the keys off, don't want to damage it.


Grab an old school cherry board off ebay. G80?


----------



## magna224

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nhb93*
> 
> Are there any MX Blue boards with old school layouts? By that I mean the double row Enter key and the short single key sized backspace key. I've been using this keyboard, minus a 2 year or so break for literally my entire typing life. I have no idea what switches it has, just that it's a Chicony KB-2961. Some say it's a dome keyboard, but it does type much better than the G15 I had, which makes me doubt that it has domes. No idea how to take the keys off, don't want to damage it.


It does use rubber domes but quite a few people have mentioned that model has exceptionally good feel for a rubber domes. Most of the keyboards that have that layout do not have cherry switches. Some of the most common mechanical keyboards of this layout are: NMB RT101, Chicony KB-5181, Chicony KB-5191( Has fake cherry sometimes) . They all have clicky and tactile switches.


----------



## KipH

@Nhb93: You could try going old school. Grab an old Model M off someone. There are usually some on fleebay or even our own sale forum. It probably will have the feel you want and be cheaper.


----------



## asuperpower

Model M - 1c.


----------



## Dunedain

Hello. I was wondering if the keyboard experts could help me out.







I have a keyboard that I bought with my Micron PC about 14 years ago. I have used it ever since then, because I like the shape and layout, and the keys feel good and are responsive, also the weight of the keyboard tends to keep it nice and steady when playing games. And though I have used it heavily, to my suprise none of the keys have ever broken and work fine. A very well-made keyboard.

But I had been having problems with stability of my pc's recently, MB stability problems on multiple top-quality MB's over a period of time, PC's shutting down randomly. And the tech support guy at my pc maker mentioned that using a mouse that is ps/2, but has an adapter for usb (I like the regular two button MS ps2 mice with roller balls, so got some with usb connections built in on the end, but maybe they convert them in the middle of the cable, instead of being pure usb versions), can cause problems with MB's, they've seen this problem before apparently. So I got a regular usb mouse, optical, hoping that would fix it. But the stability problem persisted. Then I had an idea, I wondered if the problem could actually be my keyboard. After all, I had been using it for 14 years, and though it works fine, it might have developed some kind of electrical problem that was causing havoc with my MB's. So I bought some key cheap Logitech usb keyboard, just to test the idea. Poof, PC stability problems gone. It must be the keyboard causing the problems. Some kind of subtle internal electrical fault, I guess.

The problem is I really like this keyboard, and I'd like to get one just like it if I can. Same full size, heft, and shape, slightly concave front surface, same type of keys and so on (PS/2 connection would be nice for unlimited keypresses, but a pure usb version is fine too). But I'm not sure exactly what kind of keyboard this is and where I might get one, I have tried looking, but couldn't find anything. So I was hoping I could provide the experts here with the details of the keyboard and you could tell what the proper name for this variety of keybord is, what types of keys this keyboard uses, and what are some makes and models out there that I can get that are the same as this one, or as close to the same as possible. The details are below. Thanks very much for any help!









On the back on a white label it says the following:

FCC ID NO. : AQ6-CYPRESSZ15
MODEL NO. : RT6856TW
NMB P/N : 121507-002 REV.E
SERIAL NO : B2063254

NMB Technologies Inc.
Keyboard Division
Chatsworth, CA 91311

Made in Thailand

5 VDC
300mA MAX

It also has the Designed for Windows 95 logo and "NetWare tested and approved" logo, if that means anything.


----------



## magna224

The keyboard you have is made by NMB, they are famous for their space invaders mechanical switches. The model that you have is one of their older models and is a high end rubber dome keyboard. NMB has some rubber dome keyboards that are known for being nice to type on and their keyboards are generally built solid as well. There are quite a few listings on ebay for their keyboards and you might want to try out their mechanical model with the tactile and clicky space invader switches. You can probably pick up most of their keyboards around $20-40 although ebay sellers usually try to extort their vintageness and sell them for insane prices.


----------



## Dunedain

magna224: Thanks for the info., it's very helpful.







What are the other model numbers I should be looking for with NMB keyboards on ebay that have the same shape (concave front), full size key layout and high-end rubber dome keys? Since I might not be able to find this precise model.

Yes, the key strokes on this keyboard are very smooth and light, like silk, but not mushy at all, just smooth, clean and precise. I rather assumed they might be mechanical switches of some variety, given the quality feel and extreme durability (I can hardly believe that none of the wsad keys has broken, given the thousands of hours of hard competitive fps game time I have put in on it for 14 years). I guess there is something to be said for top-of-the-line rubber dome switches.









It might be interesting to try a keyboard that is identical in shape and design, except with mechanical switches. What model numbers should I look for on the mechanical models, from NMB or other companies that have the same physical key layout?


----------



## un1b4ll

Well I just picked up the Razer Black Widow Ultimate as my first mechanical keyboard experienced. Just as is stated on page 1, I love typing on it, but it's not really a good gaming board. I am going to return it and try out a Ducky Shine with some Reds >


----------



## NinetyOne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oppressed93*
> 
> Have to say almost no keyboard out there today is even close to the model M in terms of build qulity


I wouldn't go that far. Sure it's a great board but there's definitely other boards with just as good build quality.


----------



## Mygaffer

Anyone have any experience with this keyboard:
http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=KB-40GKCL1

It is the Cooler Master CM Storm QuickFire, it is a mechanical keyboard using Cherry MX Blue switches. It has 6 extra key caps and a puller, detachable braided usb cable, anti-ghosting, rubber surface, NKRO w/PS/2, and you can disable Windows keys when gaming.

It is tenkeyless and looks really sweet for $75. SuperBiiz is a great e-tailer (My shop orders from their wholesale site, Malabs) and they have a 15% off thing going on right, coupon code SAVE15.

I just ordered one, I have a buckling spring IBM M13 that I really do LOVE _but_ it has no Windows keys and I use keyboard shortcuts a lot so it sucks not having them.

If anyone has one maybe you could let me know what you think about it. Perhaps I'll do a review and post it on OCN when I get it next year.


----------



## csm725

Hey Mygaffer,
Yes they are solid keyboards. Basically just a Filco clone. I own one.
The only downsides are the keycaps (you may not like the lettering) and the lack of rubber on the extendable feet.
It is a solid board. Go for it, at under $65 it's an amazing deal.


----------



## KipH

The CM Rapid fire is a solid board I concur. I actually have 2 review samples here, 1 blue and one RED! The red is "fabulous!!!!" (say in sing song voice). Look for my overdue review soon.

The braided USB is nice. It feels a bit stiff, like thick cable so it stays in place well. It is removable and re-direct-able so it should fit any desk well. It has 2 rubber feet, the 2 front pads have rubber, so it does sit steady. And it is heavy so it does not feel like it is moving as I type at all. But at the same time, you can re-position it easy as well, when you want to move it.

The keys are made of a bit lighter material than I have felt for other Mech keyboards. They type very easily and have not become glossy or worn with even 2 people using it full time for a few months. Just watch out if you take of the space bar. It can get some plastic fatigue if you don't know what you are doing and bend it too much in removal. (Don't ask how I know that)

At the price, it is a super board. I would take it over the 2 boards I know of at similar price: the Irock and the bad one one that has a snake on it. And even consider it at $20 more.


----------



## csm725

It's a shame mine has a broken left Alt.








But they are awesome boards.


----------



## lightsout

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mygaffer*
> 
> Anyone have any experience with this keyboard:
> http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=KB-40GKCL1
> 
> It is the Cooler Master CM Storm QuickFire, it is a mechanical keyboard using Cherry MX Blue switches. It has 6 extra key caps and a puller, detachable braided usb cable, anti-ghosting, rubber surface, NKRO w/PS/2, and you can disable Windows keys when gaming.
> 
> It is tenkeyless and looks really sweet for $75. SuperBiiz is a great e-tailer (My shop orders from their wholesale site, Malabs) and they have a 15% off thing going on right, coupon code SAVE15.
> 
> I just ordered one, I have a buckling spring IBM M13 that I really do LOVE _but_ it has no Windows keys and I use keyboard shortcuts a lot so it sucks not having them.
> 
> If anyone has one maybe you could let me know what you think about it. Perhaps I'll do a review and post it on OCN when I get it next year.


Wow thats a sick price. Great board. I got the one with reds and a filco last week and the quality of both are equal. The one with blues has been on my mind at $80. But at this price holy crap.


----------



## ntherblast

I want to purchase a mechanical keyboard but first I need to figure out which switch is right for me. I want to feel the click and I usually press hard on my keys when typing any recommendations or videos where I can hear/see the difference? I am not sure if I want brown or blue switches. ALso I would like a company that ships to Canada


----------



## Kokin

If you prefer audible feedback, blue switch might be the better choice, otherwise go with the Browns. The Browns also have a lighter force than Blues.

I'm still waiting on a LED backlit TKL mech keyboard that tickles my fancy, although I would have gotten the KBC Race if it didn't ship with green LEDs.


----------



## HWI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> I want to purchase a mechanical keyboard but first I need to figure out which switch is right for me. I want to feel the click and I usually press hard on my keys when typing any recommendations or videos where I can hear/see the difference? I am not sure if I want brown or blue switches. ALso I would like a company that ships to Canada


Browns have very little tactility and are silent. If I were you I'd try Green Alps or Cherry MX Blues.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kokin*
> 
> I'm still waiting on a LED backlit TKL mech keyboard that tickles my fancy, although I would have gotten the KBC Race if it didn't ship with green LEDs.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/KBT-75-White-blackit-LED-Mechanical-Gaming-Keyboard-W-Cherry-MX-Red-Switches-/290657727965?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item43ac8cf5dd


----------



## lightsout

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HWI*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> I want to purchase a mechanical keyboard but first I need to figure out which switch is right for me. I want to feel the click and I usually press hard on my keys when typing any recommendations or videos where I can hear/see the difference? I am not sure if I want brown or blue switches. ALso I would like a company that ships to Canada
> 
> 
> 
> Browns have very little tactility and are silent. If I were you I'd try Green Alps or Cherry MX Blues.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Kokin*
> 
> I'm still waiting on a LED backlit TKL mech keyboard that tickles my fancy, although I would have gotten the KBC Race if it didn't ship with green LEDs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/KBT-75-White-blackit-LED-Mechanical-Gaming-Keyboard-W-Cherry-MX-Red-Switches-/290657727965?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item43ac8cf5dd
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say browns are silent it depends how you type. I bottom out on browns so they are not all that quiet. The switch yes its very quiet.


----------



## HWI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lightsout*
> 
> I wouldn't say browns are silent it depends how you type. I bottom out on browns so they are not all that quiet. The switch yes its very quiet.


I don't factor in bottoming out when talking about how loud a switch is, because it's not the switch making noise. Any Cherry MX switch can be bottomed out, so it makes no sense to factor in bottoming out when talking about how loud a switch is.


----------



## lightsout

Well thats true. But someone may not understand and expect them to be totally silent like some of those rubber boards or something. I wouldn't call them silent anyways though. I was just pressing mine down like halfway just to the actuation point and while quiet it definitely makes a sound. This is with the cap on not just the switch so maybe that has something to do with it.


----------



## waar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HWI*
> 
> I don't factor in bottoming out when talking about how loud a switch is, because it's not the switch making noise. Any Cherry MX switch can be bottomed out, so it makes no sense to factor in bottoming out when talking about how loud a switch is.


i think you should, because unless he's typing on straight switches with no keycaps.. bottoming out is a factor.


----------



## HWI

Well in that case, every Cherry MX switch is equally loud, just blues are a little more clicky sounding than the rest.


----------



## ntherblast

Hey guys thanks for the replies. Are the keyboards listed in the OP the only ones available on the market or are they just the popular ones? Which brands should I go for I usually prefer going with trusted names for example corsair for power supplies. What are the trusted brands I should look out for the mechanical keyboard market? I will probably go with the blue switchs


----------



## ripster

See this Shopping guide.

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Geekhack+WorldWide+Shopping+Links

More complete and up to date.


----------



## Mr.Pie

hey peeps








I'm still rather undecided on which mech keyboard I want.

I'm still looking for something around $100; if not possible I could bump up to around $130







but thats pushing my wallet already

I need something thats backlit and supporting macros would be good.
I've had my eye on the razer blackwidow ultimate and the corsair K90....but the K90 isn't a full mech

any other suggestions?


----------



## KipH

Please divert your eyes from a razer blackwidow ultimate. They are toys, easy to break toys. Look into the Ducky Shine. Save you some $.


----------



## HWI

Gotta disagree with Kip69. The BWU I owned was a good product for it's price and the only reason I don't still own it is because I prefer tenkeyless and am not a big fan of MX Blues. Though, if you can swing the extra $30 for a Shine over the BWU it may be worth it so you can have a selection of switches and led color.


----------



## Mr.Pie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HWI*
> 
> Gotta disagree with Kip69. The BWU I owned was a good product for it's price and the only reason I don't still own it is because I prefer tenkeyless and am not a big fan of MX Blues. Though, if you can swing the extra $30 for a Shine over the BWU it may be worth it so you can have a selection of switches and led color.


does the ducky have support for macros?


----------



## HWI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr.Pie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *HWI*
> 
> Gotta disagree with Kip69. The BWU I owned was a good product for it's price and the only reason I don't still own it is because I prefer tenkeyless and am not a big fan of MX Blues. Though, if you can swing the extra $30 for a Shine over the BWU it may be worth it so you can have a selection of switches and led color.
> 
> 
> 
> does the ducky have support for macros?
Click to expand...

It doesn't have dedicated macro keys, but a program like Autohotkey can be used to map keys as you wish.


----------



## ntherblast

Are we going to see a price drop anytime soon?


----------



## Jeffro422

Just bought a Ducky with Blacks! Can't wait put aside the Black Widow and see which I prefer.


----------



## Mr.Pie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeffro422*
> 
> Just bought a Ducky with Blacks! Can't wait put aside the Black Widow and see which I prefer.


Let me know how it feels!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus


----------



## Kokin

Just bought a KBT Race White LED backlight with MX Browns. It's gonna take a while to ship due to Chinese New Year, but at least I was able to score one as the GH group buy only comes with green backlighting. Yay for my first mech/tenkeyless board.









I've seen some people recommend getting rubber o-rings to prevent bottoming out and reducing noise. Is there a certain o-ring size I should be looking for to use with Brown switches or is it based on preference of silence and travel distance? This group buy kind of helps, but I'm still not sure what I should be looking for.


----------



## Jeffro422

Which o-ring you choose to use is based on your personal preference. WASD only carries two different o-rings here: The 40a are a little softer from what I read.
Quote:


> For O-rings in this application, the inner diameter must be 3/16" (4.76mm), or very close to that. The outer diameter can vary, and it's proportional to the thickness, which means the O-ring thickness can vary too. If the outer diameter wasn't proportional to the thickness, it would be more of a washer rather than O-ring. As for the last part, bottoming out distance is solely dependent on the O-ring thickness. A thicker O-ring will reduce key travel more than a thinner one.


Source: GH


----------



## waar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeffro422*
> 
> Just bought a Ducky with Blacks! Can't wait put aside the Black Widow and see which I prefer.


Chances are you probably won't like black switches coming from blues.


----------



## Sehtey

This probably sounds like a stupid question but I'm building a computer soon soooo, how would I know which mechanical keyboard is right for me? I know what aesthetics I want. But aside from that I dunno when it comes to these.


----------



## waar

So read the first page and find out?

You can also save yourself some cash and time and head over to geekhack and sign up for the numpad switch tester and see what switches you might like.


----------



## Kokin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeffro422*
> 
> Which o-ring you choose to use is based on your personal preference. WASD only carries two different o-rings here: The 40a are a little softer from what I read.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> For O-rings in this application, the inner diameter must be 3/16" (4.76mm), or very close to that. The outer diameter can vary, and it's proportional to the thickness, which means the O-ring thickness can vary too. If the outer diameter wasn't proportional to the thickness, it would be more of a washer rather than O-ring. As for the last part, bottoming out distance is solely dependent on the O-ring thickness. A thicker O-ring will reduce key travel more than a thinner one.
> 
> 
> 
> Source: GH
Click to expand...

Ah thanks, I've read that review from WhiteFireDragon from GH. I may just stick with the 40a, 5/16"OD just to reduce noise.


----------



## asuperpower

Whether to get a Das Model S Ultimate Silent or a Leopold with Cherry MX Red's or Browns with blank keycaps...


----------



## variant

Of the various Cherry switches, which one is closest in force and feel to say your typical modern keyboard? I game (most MMO, and FPS) and I am afraid some strange feel could throw off my game if I switch to a mechanical keyboard.


----------



## ripster

See the Nickels thread:

http://www.overclock.net/t/881812/tell-me-how-many-nickels-it-takes-to-depress-the-keys-on-your-keyboard

Then measure your keyboard because they vary.


----------



## Jeffro422

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waar*
> 
> Chances are you probably won't like black switches coming from blues.


I'm not sure if I'll like them either. I've gotten to use a couple keyboards with Mx Blacks and the only thing I found was typing to be hard. I felt like this had a lot to do with them not being my keyboard. Once I get to sit down and use the Ducky for a month I'll be used to it. If I really don't like it, or if I really do. I'll sell which ever I like less or trade to get a board with reds.


----------



## Jeff78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeffro422*
> 
> I'm not sure if I'll like them either. I've gotten to use a couple keyboards with Mx Blacks and the only thing I found was typing to be hard. I felt like this had a lot to do with them not being my keyboard. Once I get to sit down and use the Ducky for a month I'll be used to it. If I really don't like it, or if I really do. I'll sell which ever I like less or trade to get a board with reds.


I went from buckling springs to blacks and there was some adjustment time, but it was mainly the lack of tactile feel that I had to adjust to and not the stiffness. I bought a Ducky with reds and despite the fact that I like how easy the keys go down, I find myself longing for blacks again and I will probably pick up a black board soon. I feel like I make too many mistakes when typing fast on the reds; like if I just barely nick another key next to the one I am trying to hit, it actuates. I felt like even though I could type faster on the reds, I could still type fairly fast on the blacks but with less backspace.


----------



## ntherblast

Between the black widow and das s professional which is better? I want to go with the das because I heard it is better quality than the black widow also I don't really like how the das doesn't have media keys:S


----------



## lightsout

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> Between the black widow and das s professional which is better? I want to go with the das because I heard it is better quality than the black widow also I don't really like how the das doesn't have media keys:S


Is there a reason why you are limited to those two boards?


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lightsout*
> 
> Is there a reason why you are limited to those two boards?


Most of the other options i looked at were tenkeyless


----------



## Jeff78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> Most of the other options i looked at were tenkeyless


Then
you
haven't
looked
very
hard.


----------



## lightsout

Ah I see you want a full layout. Have you looked at rosewill?


----------



## ntherblast

Ya it seems that many users have had to return it. Also what is wrong with the black widow and das? I can get he black widow for $63 after taxes


----------



## lightsout

I'm not a fan of Das. They are big ugly boards imo. Also they both have a gloss finish so they will be finger print magnets. The black widow seems to be hit and miss on quality. Some users love their's plenty others hate them. I would say there is a reason they are so cheap.

As far as rosewill not sure what you heard but they are great boards. I'm not sure where you read about people returning them but any product will have a few. Even the almighty Filco.


----------



## ntherblast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lightsout*
> 
> I'm not a fan of Das. They are big ugly boards imo. Also they both have a gloss finish so they will be finger print magnets. The black widow seems to be hit and miss on quality. Some users love their's plenty others hate them. I would say there is a reason they are so cheap.
> As far as rosewill not sure what you heard but they are great boards. I'm not sure where you read about people returning them but any product will have a few. Even the almighty Filco.


Oh didn't know that.

Were you talking about this keyboard
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,fullsize&pid=fc500rcab
when you mentioned Filco? Also why are the keyboards that dont have visual letters on them the same price as the ones that do. Wouldn't it be cheaper to not have to use the laser or etching? And yes I know why they leave the keys blank


----------



## lightsout

Thats a leopold. Filco is a different brand and generally thought of as one of the best boards that uses Cherry switches.

This is a Filco.
http://www.amazon.com/Filco-Majestouch-2-Keyboard-FKBN104MC-EB2/dp/B004VKYHP4/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&m=A104717BI2VJF7&s=generic&qid=1327348479&sr=1-8

Pretty pricey.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> Also why are the keyboards that dont have visual letters on them the same price as the ones that do. Wouldn't it be cheaper to not have to use the laser or etching? And yes I know why they leave the keys blank


I work in manufacturing, and it's not always easy to remove something from a step of production. You're actually lucky it doesn't cost a lot more, given how many less boards they probably sell blank.


----------



## TheMafia

After referencing this awesome guide for months, i've finally purchased and received my mechanical keyboard.

I got a WASD Keyboards Semi Custom

All black keys
Laser etched
Cherry MX Black switches

Feels great man!

Reason i went with WASD Keyboards was because i got frustrated with the match up between what was available to me and what i wanted out of the keyboard. Even though it came out to be around $178 CAD, and i think that was expensive, i love the keyboard thus far!

Recommending mechanical keyboards to all ppl that i think could benefit from it.

lol its nice typing on this thing!!! Thanks again


----------



## Bouf0010

just want to thank this thread about all the info on mechanical keyboards - i ended up getting a steelseries G6V2 and i couldnt be happier.
I just wish i would have switched over sooner!

- happily typed with a mechanical keyboard


----------



## cyrilmtl

Hi
I am looking for a silent mechanical keyboard,
I have a filco brown switch keyboard that I like but it still noisy and my coworker
send me message through my boss that they can't work when i use this keyboard
so I had to take the keyboard home







and get the office cheap HP standard keyboard.
it's noiseless but I feel like type on gelly, can't get the feeling that I correctly hit the keyboad so
my speed is very slow









I am looking for a mechanical keyboard that will give me the feeling in the finger but is
noiseless.
I was looking at the das silent keyboard, but still find it pretty noisy.
how about the filco torpe keyboard (sorry don't have the correct name).

Else I will look at keyboard like my apple keyboard, pretty slim but still some feedback in the finger.
last time I check logitech had some nice one like my apple keyboard.

I code and do sysadmin stuff all day, the keyboard is my main tools.

Thanks


----------



## HWI

Brown switches are not loud, I think the noise you are experiencing is from bottoming out. You could try adding o-rings or landing pads to quiet it down. I've never used Topre, so I can't comment on their noise level.


----------



## cyrilmtl

You are right, It's the bottoming out sound, I am kind a heavy eater on the keyboard.
I will look at the oring stuff, seems pretty cheap.


----------



## AbduktedTemplar

Got a question about my ducky shine. Already asked in the tankguys post sales support but they havent answered my previous question yet so I figured I'd try here. I am using a 15ft powered usb extension to play from my couch. When I plug the extension into the ps2 adapter that came with my keyboard it won't light up. When I plug the extension straight into usb it does light up. Is normal? Would using a male/female ps2 extension work instead?


----------



## csm725

Yes, it's normal. PS2 doesn't supply enough power to light up the LEDs.


----------



## HWI

USB or bust brah. Unless you type with your face, then use PS/2.


----------



## AbduktedTemplar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725*
> 
> Yes, it's normal. PS2 doesn't supply enough power to light up the LEDs.


the leds light up fine when connected to ps2 just not when i add the powered extension.


----------



## asuperpower

NKRO is good for trolling/spamming.















\_asuperpower_/


----------



## KipH

AbduktedTempla, what people are saying is: you don't actually have a problem. Use the USB if it works, use PS2 when you can. The interaction between the ps2 and powered extension has too much variable to be sure what the issue is, but if it does not work don't use it


----------



## PandaWarrior

Does anyone know if the 6 key rollover limitation on USB will get improved with USB 3.0?


----------



## ripster

No.

But life goes on. Especially for those of us that game with one hand on the mouse.


----------



## HWI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PandaWarrior*
> 
> Does anyone know if the 6 key rollover limitation on USB will get improved with USB 3.0?


If you really feel you need NKRO and want to use USB then get a Choc Mini, they have NKRO over usb.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster*
> 
> No.
> 
> But life goes on. Especially for those of us that game with one hand on the mouse.


True that.


----------



## Jeffro422

Just got my Ducky with MX Blacks. Definitely a big difference between the blues and the blacks. The extra force required to bottom the keys out actually feels like a ton even though it's 10g(I think). I think the first thing I'll do is pick up a wrist rest for it. I miss the clicky of the blues but the blacks feel great and they're kind of nice to type hard and fast on because they don't bottom of so easily.

I've heard some people say the space/shift/backspace buttons feel mushy but mine definitely don't but could be that I'm still used to the blues. I'll have a better idea after I've used this for some time.

OCN logos on the spacebar and esc. key look awesomeeee!


----------



## lightsout

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeffro422*
> 
> Just got my Ducky with MX Blacks. Definitely a big difference between the blues and the blacks. The extra force required to bottom the keys out actually feels like a ton even though it's 10g(I think). I think the first thing I'll do is pick up a wrist rest for it. I miss the clicky of the blues but the blacks feel great and they're kind of nice to type hard and fast on because they don't bottom of so easily.
> 
> I've heard some people say the space/shift/backspace buttons feel mushy but mine definitely don't but could be that I'm still used to the blues. I'll have a better idea after I've used this for some time.
> 
> OCN logos on the spacebar and esc. key look awesomeeee!


The stiffness of the black switch is probably why the stabilized keys don't feel mushy. For me with a cherry stabilizer bottoming out is when I notice the feeling.

Congrats on the new board though


----------



## thejoy

So with a classical mechanical keyboard like 6gv2 is it better to have ps/2 or usb ?


----------



## johnmw1

Hi,

Who would have ever thought it possible to have 1316 pages on mechanical keyboards, I sure wouldn't have.









Anyways I have read the first ten pages and the last ten pages to at least get some idea of what mechanical keyboards are about.

I am seriously thinking about changing over as I'm pissed with my current keyboard which is a Logitech combo MK710. I don't mind the mouse but the keys on my kb are constantly sticking unless I hit them squarely down.

I'm not a gamer, and my typing skills are definitely only 2 fingered if that means anything.

What I'm looking for is an illuminated keyboard which of course immediately cuts down my options. I find I sit in darkness a lot of the time and would prefer not to have to turn the light on to see what I'm doing.

I had almost convinced myself into buying a Razer BlackWidow before I really started looking deeper into the topic and finding that they are not the best of choices.

From what I have managed to find so far is Deck, Ducky and XArmor. Are there any I have missed and do you have any recommendations one way or another over build quality etc.

Cheers,
John


----------



## MaestrO_

I've really wanted a Cherry MX Blue switch keyboard, have it down to either the Black Widow Ultimate or the Filco Majestouch 2, can't decide, anyone know which is better? I have a Filco Majestouch w/ Cherry Red switches right now, so i know filco is good, just trying to get some more opinions.


----------



## lightsout

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaestrO_*
> 
> I've really wanted a Cherry MX Blue switch keyboard, have it down to either the Black Widow Ultimate or the Filco Majestouch 2, can't decide, anyone know which is better? I have a Filco Majestouch w/ Cherry Red switches right now, so i know filco is good, just trying to get some more opinions.


Filco no doubt as far as build quality. But it doesn't have all the extra cool stuff (or crap depending on your preference) that the razer has. My vote goes for the filco. But I like the classic look but better then flashy.


----------



## half bit

I have been reading through this thread a while now and have been looking for the perfect new keyboard, but couldn't find anything fitting my needs so far...
Isn't there any mechanical keyboard that has:

MX Brown switches
Full Backlighting
Dedicated Macro Keys
German Layout
?
So far the only one I found is the Razer Blackwidow Stealth, but it is not available with german layout (argh)


----------



## KipH

@thejoy : I use the ps/2 when I can. But really there is very little difference. ps/2 can give full NKRO while you can hot swap USB. I use ps/2 mostly to free up a USB slot.

@half bit : Look for a Ducky Shine. I know they have a few different key layouts and are used to dealing with at least 2 languages







The large enter key may be hard to find however.
@johnmw1: I highly recommend the Ducky but the Deck is built like a tank and will last forever, so can't go wrong with either. Pick the one that looks best to you.

@MaestrO: Try a CM Storm "Quick Fire" if you want 10keyless. Its a nice board and will save you a bit of $ but is still big enough to feel full size.


----------



## johnmw1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> @johnmw1: I highly recommend the Ducky but the Deck is built like a tank and will last forever, so can't go wrong with either. Pick the one that looks best to you.


Hi Kip69,

I have just spent a huge amount of time this morning reading up on the Decks, and yes I would have to agree they do seem to be the "Rolls Royce" of keyboards, but the more I read about them and the more I read their forums they seem to me that they are not that keen on updating models or adding wrist supports etc.

I don't know maybe it's just me, and perhaps that is the whole point of the Decks that they are not changing models every other week that make them so popular. I'm also for me not so sure about the use of clear switches, but hey I don't know enough yet and could be easily swayed.

Cheers,
John


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnmw1*
> 
> Hi Kip69,
> I have just spent a huge amount of time this morning reading up on the Decks, and yes I would have to agree they do seem to be the "Rolls Royce" of keyboards, but the more I read about them and the more I read their forums they seem to me that they are not that keen on updating models or adding wrist supports etc.
> I don't know maybe it's just me, and perhaps that is the whole point of the Decks that they are not changing models every other week that make them so popular. I'm also for me not so sure about the use of clear switches, but hey I don't know enough yet and could be easily swayed.
> Cheers,
> John


How much would it cost to get a Deck down to Aus though?

Essentially the Deck is much better built, but the Ducky is more stylish. I like the black switches myself, but if you like the blues I guess you're stuck with the Ducky.


----------



## Die Luftwaffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnmw1*
> 
> I had almost convinced myself into buying a Razer BlackWidow before I really started looking deeper into the topic and finding that they are not the best of choices.
> John


Yes, I was the same but did not actually realise it was mechanical at first. I thought the price was too much and also am now terrified of buying Razer products after my mouse was returned 3 times in 2 weeks plus everyone else I heard of owning their stuff also had the same experiences. I don't mean to bash a specific brand but this is not acceptable given the high premium prices, but strangely enough the last one I got came good and stayed good till present.

Back on topic, I orderd a Ducky Shine White w/Cherry MX Browns which I recieved yesterday. This is a damn fine keyboard, I love it. It's my first mechanical board upgrading from a cheap MS media keyboard. I had been looking into buying a board for like 6 months, doing some research, I really needed backlighting and I wanted something that did not look like a 'Gaming' product. The keys are very high compared to the way comsumer boards are, so I need to get used to it for the typing side (I am a poor typist, can't touch type). The switches a bit lighter feeling than I expected, but you do feel the tactileness especially once you get to work on it and it has a very nice sound not loud. It's got some weight to it feels really really strong in the build quality would make a great defense measure







. I love the backlights, 5 levels from dim to extreme shining bright and a few different modes as well.
Tested some games COD4 and BF3 and it actually feels a bit faster and to my surprise actually felt like I did better than usual (I'm a terrible gamer, but I just play for fun.). But I definitey do not regret buying the Ducky Shine, absolute joy to use, if you need a mech board with good backlighting, this is it. Only downsides are no macros (don't use those myself) and no Tenkeyless yet (Which I did want for a small desk, but I do use the numpad anyway). That's all I can think of for now as I am not using it to type this right now unfortunately.


----------



## lightsout

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnmw1*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> @johnmw1: I highly recommend the Ducky but the Deck is built like a tank and will last forever, so can't go wrong with either. Pick the one that looks best to you.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Kip69,
> 
> I have just spent a huge amount of time this morning reading up on the Decks, and yes I would have to agree they do seem to be the "Rolls Royce" of keyboards, but the more I read about them and the more I read their forums they seem to me that they are not that keen on updating models or adding wrist supports etc.
> 
> I don't know maybe it's just me, and perhaps that is the whole point of the Decks that they are not changing models every other week that make them so popular. I'm also for me not so sure about the use of clear switches, but hey I don't know enough yet and could be easily swayed.
> 
> Cheers,
> John
Click to expand...

Deck rolls royce? For real? I haven't heard that much. They don't seem very popular from what I can tell. Plus the font is butt ugly if you ask me. But you didn't


----------



## Kokin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lightsout*
> 
> Deck rolls royce? For real? I haven't heard that much. They don't seem very popular from what I can tell. Plus the font is butt ugly if you ask me. But you didn't


I'm still fairly new to mech keyboards as well and all I've heard about Decks are their superior build quality ("built like tanks"). The Deck 82 was actually the first keyboard that piqued my interest at mech keyboards, but I agree that the font is certainly ugly.

Waiting on my KBT Race to come in, but it's still in Beijing.







I'm hoping to get it next week and I'll be sure to take pictures or even make a video of it. I also bought 40A rubber o-rings for it, so I'm hoping it's not as loud. It's gonna be nice to finally upgrade from my almost 3 year old Lycosa. I give my thanks to HWI for pointing me to the right direction for my first mechanical keyboard.


----------



## lightsout

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kokin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lightsout*
> 
> Deck rolls royce? For real? I haven't heard that much. They don't seem very popular from what I can tell. Plus the font is butt ugly if you ask me. But you didn't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still fairly new to mech keyboards as well and all I've heard about Decks are their superior build quality ("built like tanks"). The Deck 82 was actually the first keyboard that piqued my interest at mech keyboards, but I agree that the font is certainly ugly.
> 
> Waiting on my KBT Race to come in, but it's still in Beijing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm hoping to get it next week and I'll be sure to take pictures or even make a video of it. I also bought 40A rubber o-rings for it, so I'm hoping it's not as loud. It's gonna be nice to finally upgrade from my almost 3 year old Lycosa. I give my thanks to HWI for pointing me to the right direction for my first mechanical keyboard.
Click to expand...

Oh congrats on that. Later on when those become more available I may pick one up. Never had a backlit board before. Did you do the group buy at deskthority?

As far as the Deck I honestly don't know much about them. I don't see too many owners of them. But thats probably more because of the looks.


----------



## Kokin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lightsout*
> 
> Oh congrats on that. Later on when those become more available I may pick one up. Never had a backlit board before. Did you do the group buy at deskthority?
> As far as the Deck I honestly don't know much about them. I don't see too many owners of them. But thats probably more because of the looks.


I wanted to get in on the group buy for Deskthority, but it already ended by the time I saw they were also selling other backlighting colors. I ended up getting it from an individual seller from China for $110 + $28shipping so it's not a bad deal and at least I got the white LED version. I'm not a big fan of the red PCB underneath the keys, but that's just a minor thing. I'll be glad to answer any questions you have about it once I get it.


----------



## lightsout

Ah I see. I'm also waiting to see how the pure turns out.


----------



## Kokin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lightsout*
> 
> Ah I see. I'm also waiting to see how the pure turns out.


It looks interesting and clean, but it's too small for my needs.


----------



## lightsout

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kokin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lightsout*
> 
> Ah I see. I'm also waiting to see how the pure turns out.
> 
> 
> 
> It looks interesting and clean, but it's too small for my needs.
Click to expand...

Oh is it even smaller then the poker? I didn't know that.


----------



## Kokin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lightsout*
> 
> Oh is it even smaller then the poker? I didn't know that.


I think they are the same size or similar at least. I need more keys though, I can't imagine playing games without the F1-F12 keys or some of the other function keys as some RPG games tend to use those. I would miss refreshing with F5 or renaming with F2.









The Poker/Pure are about 60% of a normal keyboard while the Race is 75% (according to their other names).


----------



## lightsout

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kokin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lightsout*
> 
> Oh is it even smaller then the poker? I didn't know that.
> 
> 
> 
> I think they are the same size or similar at least. I need more keys though, I can't imagine playing games without the F1-F12 keys or some of the other function keys as some RPG games tend to use those. I would miss refreshing with F5 or renaming with F2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Poker/Pure are about 60% of a normal keyboard while the Race is 75% (according to their other names).
Click to expand...

Ah I see I didn't realize they race had the F keys. I personally never use them and think it kind of looks off on a mini keyboard. F for rename ha I never knew that thanks. Learn something everyday.


----------



## carajean

Hey I was wondering where would someone pick up a poker/race other than the geekhack.org?? I for some reason can not create a account over there.


----------



## Kokin

There is qtan from Ebay/geekhack but you can try taobao though you'll need to use google translater or something. My gf says the individual Sellers/agents are really quick and friendly, though that is for clothes, not sure about tech stuff there.

Sent from my Galaxy S II using Tuturu~


----------



## lightsout

Normally on taobao you need to use a broker. Well thats what most people do. Qtan is out of pokers until next month or sometime.


----------



## -SE7EN-

any reason not to buy the k90? I want a mech, but dont want a (boring-looking to me) standard keyboard. I prefer dedicated media keys (Fn + key defeats purpose, especially when they're a good distance away from each other). Illumination/Macro are pluses but not a deal breaker - Macro keys are not important to me at all.

I'm also considering the Azio Mech4, but the lack of media keys, and the dirty industrial look (when almost everything else that will be on my desk will be (glossy) black, are making it lose out to the k90. I get that the k90 is hybrid and fkeys are domed, but i dont use those keys 98% of the time anyways. I plan on mostly gaming/typing with this keyboard, and the type of switch is not important to me. Noise level is also unimportant.

Just looking for more candidates to throw in the equation, or a reason to eliminate the k90 or mech4 from consideration. thanks.


----------



## waar

Mech4 is ridicously ugly.


----------



## KipH

I had a hands on with the Mech4 in OEM dress. Not a bad feeling board but a little overdressed








You can see me talk about it here: 



Yes, I said their name wrong and sorry about sound. I guess I need a clip on mic.


----------



## MaestrO_

officially purchased http://www.amazon.com/Filco-Majestouch-2-Keyboard-FKBN104MC-EFB2/dp/B004Z0XS0K

cant wait for it to arrive


----------



## lightsout

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaestrO_*
> 
> officially purchased http://www.amazon.com/Filco-Majestouch-2-Keyboard-FKBN104MC-EFB2/dp/B004Z0XS0K
> 
> cant wait for it to arrive


Nice choice.


----------



## Kokin

Gah my Race was supposed to come in today, but I was at school, so no keyboard lovin until tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## Vuashke

just a quick question for you guys

i read that red/blacks were the best for gaming, however i only ever really play slow-paced RPGS, like the old DnD-based ones (baldurs gate, arcanum, TOEE etc.) the 'fastest' games i play are stuff like deus ex 3/witcher 2, which really isnt fast at all, at least no compared to quake or cs. are reds n blacks still the best for me? i do alot of typing too, mainly facebook/forums/msn, not anything for work and not much for school







in my situation, would a set of browns be pretty much the same as blacks/reds in the games i play?


----------



## spacestation

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke*
> 
> just a quick question for you guys
> i read that red/blacks were the best for gaming, however i only ever really play slow-paced RPGS, like the old DnD-based ones (baldurs gate, arcanum, TOEE etc.) the 'fastest' games i play are stuff like deus ex 3/witcher 2, which really isnt fast at all, at least no compared to quake or cs. are reds n blacks still the best for me? i do alot of typing too, mainly facebook/forums/msn, not anything for work and not much for school
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in my situation, would a set of browns be pretty much the same as blacks/reds in the games i play?


Browns will be better in your situation with a mix of gaming/typing.

Currently using this keyboard: http://www.amazon.com/S-Professional-Silent-Keyboard-Wired/dp/B003M549A2/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1328594298&sr=1-1

Although will probably try filco next. Assuming the keyboard dies out... which is not likely.


----------



## Vuashke

how about a leopold?


----------



## UltraHoboLord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke*
> 
> how about a leopold?


Ducky, Filco and Das are great brands. Leopold is in the middle of the spectrum.


----------



## Vuashke

any practical difference between them? if i bought a das and a leopold, what would be the things that differentiate them?


----------



## Elvandar

umm, most would consider leopold a top notch brand actually

i know id definitely prefer leopold over the glossy finish that das has (the reason why most people dislike them)


----------



## UltraHoboLord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elvandar*
> 
> umm, most would consider leopold a top notch brand actually
> i know id definitely prefer leopold over the glossy finish that das has (the reason why most people dislike them)


Top notch would be Decks. That list was of quality not glossiness. That's more of a personal preference.


----------



## Elvandar

thats a good point but i still dont think people would rank a das over a leopold in terms of quality


----------



## Molybdenum

How's the quality of WASD? I'm looking to buy my first mech keyboard, leaning toward a full size brown board, but no idea on brand. I have no preference on media keys or backlit. I've heard the costar stabilizers are good (better?) so that's WASD/rosewill/filco? What about leopold? I'm leaning toward WASD, but they're $10-20 more expensive than other boards (for the v1).


----------



## UltraHoboLord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Molybdenum*
> 
> How's the quality of WASD? I'm looking to buy my first mech keyboard, leaning toward a full size brown board, but no idea on brand. I have no preference on media keys or backlit. I've heard the costar stabilizers are good (better?) so that's WASD/rosewill/filco? What about leopold? I'm leaning toward WASD, but they're $10-20 more expensive than other boards (for the v1).


Decks, Ducky, Filco, Das, WASD, Rosewill, Leopold, Corsair, Razer, Tt.

No mechanical keyboards are really bad but this is a very general quality list form best to worst.


----------



## csm725

That list is way off.
Rosewill, WASD, Filco, and Das are ALL the same build quality (Costar boards).
Decks are built a tad better, if even.
Corsairs are a bit flimsier, and Tts are less solid than Corsairs.
Razers are just inconsistent. When they work, I'd rank them with the Corsairs.


----------



## GeforceGTS

I've only experience with Filco and Ducky and I'd say the Filco was higher quality.. at least it feels a lot more solid, not saying the Ducky felt cheap though.. but either way I couldn't get used to the Ducky spacebar ;l Felt squidgy/weird ;x


----------



## UltraHoboLord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725*
> 
> That list is way off.
> Rosewill, WASD, Filco, and Das are ALL the same build quality (Costar boards).
> Decks are built a tad better, if even.
> Corsairs are a bit flimsier, and Tts are less solid than Corsairs.
> Razers are just inconsistent. When they work, I'd rank them with the Corsairs.


Just general what I've heard. I'll edit it.


----------



## csm725

@Geforce - Yeah, Cherry stabilizers are mechanically better but they just feel worse
@Ultra - Sorry, I was a bit harsh. I just think though that people should be more aware that companies that used to be known for mediocre boards (Ducky comes to mind) have improved tenfold.


----------



## lightsout

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vuashke*
> 
> any practical difference between them? if i bought a das and a leopold, what would be the things that differentiate them?


Leopolds are excellent boards. I have had two. They are just as solid as a filco. I'm not a fan of Das so I havew never tried one. Only thing I personally don't like about Leopold (and ducky) they use cherry stabilizers. The stabilized keys have a mush feel to them. Its a different feel then the regular switch. With Costar they all feel pretty much the same.

Also there are a small few people that have usb issues with the leopold. I didn't and it seems to be way overblown. Also Brian at EK will rma it if you have the issue.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UltraHoboLord*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Molybdenum*
> 
> How's the quality of WASD? I'm looking to buy my first mech keyboard, leaning toward a full size brown board, but no idea on brand. I have no preference on media keys or backlit. I've heard the costar stabilizers are good (better?) so that's WASD/rosewill/filco? What about leopold? I'm leaning toward WASD, but they're $10-20 more expensive than other boards (for the v1).
> 
> 
> 
> Decks, Ducky, Filco, Das, WASD, Rosewill, Leopold, Corsair, Razer, Tt.
> 
> No mechanical keyboards are really bad but this is a very general quality list form best to worst.
Click to expand...

I think because of the OCN edition Ducky they became very popular here. But elsewhere most people (I believe) would consider them a notch below brands like Filco, Leopold, WASD etc.


----------



## csm725

GH and DT are a bit behind the times Ducky-wise, even though webwit is a duck.


----------



## ripster

Cave anas.


----------



## csm725

Wild duck.


----------



## lightsout

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725*
> 
> GH and DT are a bit behind the times Ducky-wise, even though webwit is a duck.


What ducky do you own?


----------



## csm725

None.








I just go by what the experts say. I have a Shine with Blues on the way though.
Edit, you don't need to own a product to be able to say it's not crap though.


----------



## waar

A ducky better than a filco?

In what world?


----------



## csm725

Why is the Filco better?
Don't get me wrong, I am infatuated with mine, but still...


----------



## lightsout

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csm725*
> 
> None.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just go by what the experts say. I have a Shine with Blues on the way though.
> Edit, you don't need to own a product to be able to say it's not crap though.


Well you would need to at least have handled both to give an objective opinion. If your just going around saying they are great because you hear others say that. Then that doesn't help much.

I can't personally comment on ducky's because I have never used ones. But I have seen numerous people that own numerous keyboards say they are a little below some of the top brands.

Lots of people here have never had a mechanical before. THey bought or won a ducky and say its great because they had some junker before.

Who are these experts you speak of?


----------



## mrwalker

I just received my Leopold Linear with red switches and I'm amazed at how easy it is to type on this keyboard. Now I can type much faster than with my Microsoft rubber dome keyboard. I'm sure gaming will be just as amazing. I got the tenkeyless version because the standard size gets in the way of my mouse sometimes while gaming. I'm very happy with my purchase and recommend the red switches to anyone who wants a light feel to the keys.


----------



## no_safe_HAVEN

So I'm looking to get my first Mech but I'm having trouble finding a shop that has all the switch type side by side so as i can play with the feel and noise. I went to Frys today and they had a BlackWidow and a Corsair k60. (So Red and blue switches.) But there was nothing to speak of with black, brown or clear.

Any one know of a store, that i would have here in San Diego, that stocks a good assortment of different switched KBs?


----------



## lightsout

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *no_safe_HAVEN*
> 
> So I'm looking to get my first Mech but I'm having trouble finding a shop that has all the switch type side by side so as i can play with the feel and noise. I went to Frys today and they had a BlackWidow and a Corsair k60. (So Red and blue switches.) But there was nothing to speak of with black, brown or clear.
> 
> Any one know of a store, that i would have here in San Diego, that stocks a good assortment of different switched KBs?


It sucks but there really isn't a place. Especially for browns. Clears you have pretty much no chance. Some people have said micro center has a ducky on display. Which has browns. But you'd have to drive up to tustin to see if they had one.

There is a switch tester that you can sign up for at geekhack. Its being passed around the country right now. But it would probably be a while before you got your hands on it.


----------



## Kokin

Got my KBT Race today! MX Brown switches feel really good to me and I'm glad I got them as I didn't like Blue and Black switches. Browns are pretty silent despite bottoming out, at least much more silent compared to my Razer Lycosa.

I'll continue playing with them for a bit and I'll try to take some photos of it and maybe do a review when I have more time this weekend. My rubber o-rings should also be coming in within the next few days, so I'll include that in my future post/review.

Here are a few pictures I took, the red PBC isn't as red as it is in the pictures, it's more of a dull red.


----------



## lightsout

Looks pretty sweet. What did you pay for it?


----------



## no_safe_HAVEN

^this. And where did you order it from? That is sweet looking!!!


----------



## waar

backlight looks purple.. or is it the pictures?

must be the pic because your deathadder looks purple too


----------



## Kokin

Hmm the lighting does look weird. I was using my sister's DSLR, so some settings are probably off or some colors are being blocked when it goes through the camera lens. It's definitely white LED backlighting and the PCB is a dark brown/red color. Looks amazing in person and my crappy pictures give it no justice.

I bought it from a Chinese reseller for $110 + $28 shipping via PayPal. Considering it was cheaper than qtan's price and the group buy at Geekhack didn't have white backlighting, it was a good price. If you guys want to contact the guy who sold it to me, shoot me a PM and I'll give you his email. AFAIK, he has both green and white backlighting and multiple switches. It comes with the Mini-USB cable, a plastic keycap puller, and also 2 extra key caps (the squirrel and acorn caps) which replaced the Windows key and FN key on my board.

That being said, I really love the Browns. I'm starting to get used to just lightly pressing keys to the actuation point and not bottoming out. My girlfriend tried it out as well and she liked it a lot, except she's the type of person who pounds pretty hard on the keys, so she bottoms out all the time, but she's a quicker typist than I am. I definitely don't regret paying $140 for my first mech keyboard and it will be very useful for when I have programming hw/lab.


----------



## Kokin

I just realized I can't do alt codes with my TKL.


----------



## ripster

My Realforce 87U can. Otherwise I rarely use embedded numpads on Tenkeyless keyboards.


----------



## Kokin

Except I need certain symbols like the Ohm symbol for lab reports in circuit analysis, though I guess copy and paste will have to do for now.


----------



## asuperpower

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kokin*
> 
> Except I need certain symbols like the Ohm symbol for lab reports in circuit analysis, though I guess copy and paste will have to do for now.


Use Autohotkey.


----------



## Kokin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *asuperpower*
> 
> Use Autohotkey.


Will try it.


----------



## lanemiller

I had gotten myself a 6gv2, after using a friend's, and I'm honestly extremely happy with it. So much that I bought myself one for work. It's got a nice solid feel, it's heavy as can be, but it's extremely durable. I dropped it a few times when I was using the same one at work and home and, aside from keys popping off, there's no damage, or problems with it.


----------



## Kokin

So I finally got my o-rings today and spent a good hour taking off each key and putting the rubber o-rings on it. At first I was a bit disappointed, as it felt the same and sounded the same when I put it on several keys and tested it out against keys without the o-rings, but after putting it on all keys... it really makes a difference, especially when bottoming out. Not only does it reduce noise and travel distance, it also feels good to bottom out. I get a cushioned feeling instead of a hard clunk, which makes it *so much better* for gaming. The keys with stabilizers on them (Backspace, Enter, Left Shift, Space) felt a lot better with the o-rings.

Here are more pictures! It was taken with my phone, so it isn't as high-quality as the last set.


----------



## qcktthfm1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kokin*
> 
> So I finally got my o-rings today and spent a good hour taking off each key and putting the rubber o-rings on it. At first I was a bit disappointed, as it felt the same and sounded the same when I put it on several keys and tested it out against keys without the o-rings, but after putting it on all keys... it really makes a difference, especially when bottoming out. Not only does it reduce noise and travel distance, it also feels good to bottom out. I get a cushioned feeling instead of a hard clunk, which makes it *so much better* for gaming. The keys with stabilizers on them (Backspace, Enter, Left Shift, Space) felt a lot better with the o-rings.
> Here are more pictures! It was taken with my phone, so it isn't as high-quality as the last set.


Where you get your oring? My 40A black are from group buy in geekhack. Pink 50A are from wasd. I'm also using Race (mx red). 50A really helps to reduce bottom out on the PCB clack.


----------



## UltraHoboLord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qcktthfm1*
> 
> Where you get your oring? My 40A black are from group buy in geekhack. Pink 50A are from wasd. I'm also using Race (mx red). 50A really helps to reduce bottom out on the PCB clack.


What is the difference between the 50A and 40A?


----------



## Kokin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qcktthfm1*
> 
> Where you get your oring? My 40A black are from group buy in geekhack. Pink 50A are from wasd. I'm also using Race (mx red). 50A really helps to reduce bottom out on the PCB clack.


Got mine from the group buy in Geekhack as well. It was the 40A 1/16W.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UltraHoboLord*
> 
> What is the difference between the 50A and 40A?


This is directly from the group buy:
Quote:


> pack A: optimal noise dampening, small key travel reduction $9
> 40A, 3/16 ID, 5/16 OD, 1/16 W
> 
> pack B: less noise dampening but more crisps bottom-out, small key travel reduction $13
> 50A, 3/16" ID, 5/16" OD, 1/16" W
> 
> pack C: optimal noise dampening, fair amount of key travel reduction $13
> 40A, 5mm ID, 2mm W
> 
> pack D: some noise dampening, negligible key travel reduction $13
> 40A, 5mm ID, 1mm W
> 
> pack E: nearly no bottom-out noise, max key travel reduction $20
> 40A, 3/16 ID, 3/8 OD, 3/32 W
> 
> pack F: hard bottom-out, small key travel reduction $4
> 70A, 3/16 ID, 5/16 OD, 1/16 W
> 
> pack G: hard bottom-out, max key travel reduction $4
> 70A, 3/16 ID, 3/8 OD, 3/32 W
> 
> pack H: softest bottom-out but might feel mushy, small key travel reduction $16
> 30A, 5mm ID, 1.5mm W


----------



## lightsout

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UltraHoboLord*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *qcktthfm1*
> 
> Where you get your oring? My 40A black are from group buy in geekhack. Pink 50A are from wasd. I'm also using Race (mx red). 50A really helps to reduce bottom out on the PCB clack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the difference between the 50A and 40A?
Click to expand...

The lower the number is the softer the rubber.


----------



## FlipBack

Hey guys, I've seen force graphs for a bunch of the different mechanical switches and am wondering if one exists for the typical rubber dome switch to reference? I have a Logitech G110 (huge waste of money!) if it matters, and am contemplating going mech


----------



## ripster

See this thread:

http://www.overclock.net/t/881812/tell-me-how-many-nickels-it-takes-to-depress-the-keys-on-your-keyboard


----------



## Raffledoocious

Hi all,

Contemplating going mechanical, coming from a Microsoft Ergonomic 4000... mainly because of the overall feel and I want the build quality. I have it narrowed to the following criteria.

Cherry MX Browns
Blank Keys ( really like the minimalist look)
Tenkeyless

This led my leading choice to be the Tenkeyless brown Leopold from elitekeyboards.com. Does anyone have any other suggestions or a keyboard I am overlooking which meets my criteria?


----------



## Eagle1337

CM storm quick fire rapid + custom keycaps?


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raffledoocious*
> 
> Hi all,
> Contemplating going mechanical, coming from a Microsoft Ergonomic 4000... mainly because of the overall feel and I want the build quality. I have it narrowed to the following criteria.
> Cherry MX Browns
> Blank Keys ( really like the minimalist look)
> Tenkeyless
> This led my leading choice to be the Tenkeyless brown Leopold from elitekeyboards.com. Does anyone have any other suggestions or a keyboard I am overlooking which meets my criteria?


I do like my CM storm quick fire rapid and it would be a good choice for you if you can find blank keys (or paint them as you like)
The other you could look at is the Happy Hacking Keyboard. Its just too small for me but if you like minimal and have an extra $300 here....

But these leopolds look just like what you want








Here Brown, out of stock
here Reds but in stock
and here (grey keys with grey printing. Looking good!) are some examples you may like.


----------



## waar

hell of a jump going from 89 dollar keyboards to 300 dollar HHKB


----------



## Vandal4126

Thinking of going mechanical. I've had my G15 for +- 5 years now and it's still going strong but I recently used a mates Blackwidow and mechanical is really awesome.

I'm not sure which board to get. I have been looking at the QPAD MK-85 US layout with Red Cherry keys. I have no experience with mechanical boards beside the blackwidow and afaik that uses the Blue cherry clicky switches.

I understand that it's very subjective on which key to get but I was wondering if there was a general consensus on which is the 'best' all round type to get. I don't like how loud the blue switches are, so I would say Red or Brown would be best? But QPAD doesn't have Brown in stock anymore so would the red be a good choice for gaming(primarily FPS) and a bit of typing(mostly gaming).


----------



## Kokin

I really like my Browns and it was also my first keyboard. I think people are right to say that Browns is a good recommendation for first-timers, but I have yet to try Reds, so that may be good as well. I heard that Reds are like Browns but without the tactile feel.


----------



## Vandal4126

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kokin*
> 
> I really like my Browns and it was also my first keyboard. I think people are right to say that Browns is a good recommendation for first-timers, but I have yet to try Reds, so that may be good as well. I heard that Reds are like Browns but without the tactile feel.


Ideal keyboard would be if logitech decided to finally get into mechanical keyboards and update the G15/19. The LCD is really quite useful.


----------



## UltraHoboLord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vandal4126*
> 
> Thinking of going mechanical. I've had my G15 for +- 5 years now and it's still going strong but I recently used a mates Blackwidow and mechanical is really awesome.
> I'm not sure which board to get. I have been looking at the QPAD MK-85 US layout with Red Cherry keys. I have no experience with mechanical boards beside the blackwidow and afaik that uses the Blue cherry clicky switches.
> I understand that it's very subjective on which key to get but I was wondering if there was a general consensus on which is the 'best' all round type to get. I don't like how loud the blue switches are, so I would say Red or Brown would be best? But QPAD doesn't have Brown in stock anymore so would the red be a good choice for gaming(primarily FPS) and a bit of typing(mostly gaming).


I would say browns if your gaming and typing, reds have a lot of miss clicks when gaming from owners. It's just what ever you prefer I would try them before you buy them. Whats your budget on this keyboard anyways?


----------



## Vandal4126

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UltraHoboLord*
> 
> I would say browns if your gaming and typing, reds have a lot of miss clicks when gaming from owners. It's just what ever you prefer I would try them before you buy them. Whats your budget on this keyboard anyways?


No finite budget, just looking for something to replace my G15(something that will last). This keyboard is great, all it lacks is mechanical switches. Is there any rumor about logitech releasing a Mechanical version of the G15/19?


----------



## UltraHoboLord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vandal4126*
> 
> No finite budget, just looking for something to replace my G15(something that will last). This keyboard is great, all it lacks is mechanical switches. Is there any rumor about logitech releasing a Mechanical version of the G15/19?


I've never heard that but it would be a good idea for them. Anyways Decks are probably the best in terms of build quality but some people don't like the how the keys look, including me. Ducky (shine) and Filco(Ninja Majestouch-2) are right under them. All three are good choices see which one you like







.


----------



## KipH

Vandal4126, I also suggest you wold like the Ducky Shine. Its a nice looking board. How about taking off the LCD from your old g15 and modding it onto a shine? I would love to see that. No, I have no idea if it can be done


----------



## csm725

That's a sweet idea. If I had the cash and PCB and soldering knowledge, I'd try to go for it...


----------



## half bit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> How about taking off the LCD from your old g15 and modding it onto a shine? I would love to see that. No, I have no idea if it can be done


That's an awesome idea, I think I might try that with my Sidewinder X6 (modding an mechanical inside it and keeping the macro keys, numpad etc.), I just need to find a mechanical keyboard whose electronics fits inside...
Any ideas what could fit? :s (that has a german layout and brown switches)

If my dream-keyboard doesn't exist I might as well build my own








Thanks for the idea!


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vandal4126*
> 
> [Is there any rumor about logitech releasing a Mechanical version of the G15/19?


Yep.

Here:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?23752-Reason-to-believe-HP-and-or-Logitech-might-be-considering-mechanical-boards
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129;447743*
> 
> Reason to believe HP and/or Logitech might be considering mechanical boards... Can't say why though. But it's a possibility, they've definitely done a bit of work in that field recently...
> 
> Source is confidential.


----------



## Horatio McCallister

Oooh I like the sound of Logitech mech keyboards. Hopefully we'll hear something from them soon.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horatio McCallister*
> 
> Oooh I like the sound of Logitech mech keyboards. Hopefully we'll hear something from them soon.


Logitech with mechs? I'll respect them some more if they do, but they ain't going to soar to the top to take down Filco for sure.


----------



## waar

I'm sure they sleep well at night with or without your respect.


----------



## Awful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UltraHoboLord*
> 
> I've never heard that but it would be a good idea for them. Anyways Decks are probably the best in terms of build quality but some people don't like the how the keys look, including me. Ducky (shine) and Filco(Ninja Majestouch-2) are right under them. All three are good choices see which one you like
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I've never seen anyone say deck > filco/ducky. That's interesting. I would kill something with my bare hands for an Ice 82 w/ mx blues.


----------



## waar

You could always mod one, deck isn't too picky about modding as long as you don't screw with the pcb.

I, too, would like an 82 with blues.


----------



## Modus

Anyone with KBC Poker having issues with the space-bar not registering when hit? It's not all the time but its been getting more frequent. I'm hoping it's just dirt under the key cap.(don;t have a key-cap remover so can't check).


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waar*
> 
> I'm sure they sleep well at night with or without your respect.


I'm sure they do, but they have my respect for mice and Ultimate Ears.


----------



## waar

I do love my G9x


----------



## asuperpower

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waar*
> 
> I do love my G9x


? That's a mouse.


----------



## waar

Um, duh?

Look at the post above mine for context clues.


----------



## Kokin

So anyone with backlit mech boards experiencing that some keys are dim? I pulled out the key caps and I noticed that the dim LEDs are outputting a weaker intensity than the normal LEDs. Is there a way to fix this?


----------



## Awful

Is it a Razer? not being a dick, but I've seen tons and tons of people talking about burnt out LEDs on those.


----------



## Kokin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Awful*
> 
> Is it a Razer? not being a dick, but I've seen tons and tons of people talking about burnt out LEDs on those.


Actually it's on my KBT Race. At first I thought it was due to my rubber o-ring mod and the rings were covering the LEDs, but it's the LED itself that is dim. I'm open to ideas on how to fix this or how this even happened, as I only noticed in the last few days.

*You can see that my tab, Q, E, R, T, Y, U, Backspace, Home keys are very dim:*


*Here you can see the W's LED is annoyingly bright versus the E's LED which is barely outputting any light:*


----------



## Kokin

I guess no one has any suggestions for the LEDs?


----------



## valleydaz

I seem to have a dodgy switch on my Steelseries 6GV2 (left Ctrl), it catches when pressing at half way. Although its still usable it is quite annoying. Is it possible to easly change out one of these switches for another that isn't used as much?


----------



## ntherblast

Where can I buy a keycap puller? I would rather not buy one online because the shipping costs will outweigh the cost of the puller. So does anyone know any brick and mortar stores that sell them in Canada?


----------



## Crazy9000

I'd be surprised if a store sold keycap pullers. It was almost impossible to even get a mech keyboard in store until Razer came out with them.

However, it's fairly easy to just get some stiff wire, pliers, and bend yourself one. Just look at the pic and I'm sure you can figure something out.:


----------



## KipH

Puller? Make one with a bent paper clip


----------



## ntherblast

Thanks for the replies another question how would i go about assigning global volume controls to specific keys?


----------



## Detroitsoldier

Ah, how I wish I could get my Model M's working. Found them in my basement a while ago and never found out what was wrong with them.


----------



## asuperpower

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ntherblast*
> 
> Thanks for the replies another question how would i go about assigning global volume controls to specific keys?


Use Auto Hotkey.


----------



## entreri00

I just bought a DAS Silent Professional, my first mechanical keyboard. Unfortunately I'm working on sending it back as it had defective L and Period keys. Force to get a reaction was like driving nails.

I have a WYSE and a Dell keyboard at home. The WYSE is my main everyday keyboard and it has a much nicer depress than the Dell like the one I'm typing this on. It had something akin to a mechanical feel compared to the Dell. I wonder if anyone has experience with it. Funny thing was I showed the DAS I had to our data entry person and she said she preferred hers. It was also a WYSE. I think it's the shorter travel she liked.


----------



## grassh0ppa

Does anyone remember what brand of keyboard that one musician made an unboxing of? I believe it is an expensive japanese brand, and it was some kind of rock musician... korn maybe? I dunno lol. I just remember those boards being beautiful


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grassh0ppa*
> 
> Does anyone remember what brand of keyboard that one musician made an unboxing of? I believe it is an expensive japanese brand, and it was some kind of rock musician... korn maybe? I dunno lol. I just remember those boards being beautiful


Moves like Jagger?


----------



## shieber

Other important features to mention relate to keyboard sculpting and these involve 1) whether the arrays of keys are dished (front and rear rows higher than center row) and 2) rows are stepped so that the front edge of one row is higher lower than the back edge or the next higher row.


----------



## dealwithit002

Thanks for the thread, lotta good info

Just one question if you guys don't mind...

I'm looking at the DECK 88 ICE - for gaming, does this support full NKRO over USB or PS2? says you have to mod it for PS2, but if I can just stick w/USB that would be much nicer

Anyone able to link me to the mod required for ps2 to work, if NKRO is not over usb?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dealwithit002*
> 
> Thanks for the thread, lotta good info
> Just one question if you guys don't mind...
> I'm looking at the DECK 88 ICE - for gaming, does this support full NKRO over USB or PS2? says you have to mod it for PS2, but if I can just stick w/USB that would be much nicer
> Anyone able to link me to the mod required for ps2 to work, if NKRO is not over usb?


NKRO over for Decks is PS/2 only, 6 key over USB. I don't think you can convert the tenkeyless Deck keyboards, as far as I can tell that is only possible on the legends, which have PS/2 as an option at purchase.

From the user manual for the legend, here is how to do the mod though:
Quote:


> Interface conversion:
> The keyboard interface can be changed from PS/2 to USB and vice‐versa. Converting the keyboard from USB to PS/2
> is not recommended unless you are competent at de‐soldering electronic components. Please read all instructions
> before beginning.
> In either case, the keyboard must be disassembled by removing the screws from the bottom side of the enclosure
> using the appropriate sized Phillips head screwdriver. After removing the screws, turn the keyboard upright and
> carefully separate the top half from the bottom half. Note the routing of the data cord for strain relief purposes so
> that it can be routed the same way when the keyboard is reassembled. Also, note the location of the "W3" located
> on the printed circuit board above and between the "F4" and "F5" keys.
> If converting from PS/2 to USB, unplug the USB end of the data cord from the Type A USB receptacle located at "J2"
> and plug the PS/2 end into the 6 pin mini‐DIN female receptacle at "J1"' which is located above and between the
> "F12" and "PrtSc" keys. Then clip‐out and discard the 10K Ohm resistor at "W3". Reverse the steps to reassemble the
> keyboard and follow the USB installation instructions.
> If converting from USB to PS/2, unplug and remove the PS/2 end of the data cord from "J1" and plug the USB end of
> the data cord into the Type A receptacle which is located at "J2". If the product uses through‐hole parts, use a
> soldering iron and solder removal tool to remove the lead clippings from "W3". Then solder a through‐hole, 10K,
> 1/4W, 5% resistor at "W3". If the product uses surface mount parts, use a soldering iron and solder a surface mount,
> 10K, 1/8W, 5%, package size 0805 resistor at "W3". Reverse the steps to reassemble the keyboard and follow the
> PS/2 installation instructions.


----------



## dealwithit002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> NKRO over for Decks is PS/2 only, 6 key over USB. I don't think you can convert the tenkeyless Deck keyboards, as far as I can tell that is only possible on the legends, which have PS/2 as an option at purchase.
> From the user manual for the legend, here is how to do the mod though:


Might I suggest updating the OP with this info for the DECK82?

I'm looking for a 10keyless mechanical keyboard with NKRO and a backlight

I think I'm going to be settling for another keyboard that should be added to the list

http://www.fentek-ind.com/mechanical-gaming-keyboard.htm


----------



## Bouf0010

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dealwithit002*
> 
> Might I suggest updating the OP with this info for the DECK82?
> I'm looking for a 10keyless mechanical keyboard with NKRO and a backlight
> I think I'm going to be settling for another keyboard that should be added to the list
> http://www.fentek-ind.com/mechanical-gaming-keyboard.htm


thats a nice looking keyboard, far from settling IMO


----------



## silat

yes it is like many keyboards. Like the QPAD MK-85.........


----------



## nmatavka

Quite a while ago, I asked about how Topre keyboards compared to Cherry MXes or my personal favourites, and I got an excellent comparison by Ripster in terms of shoes.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster*
> 
> Model M is for serious work. Cherry MX is for springy fun. Topre is for a comfortable but boring experience.
> IBM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cherry Blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Topres


What I am now interested in is what shoe wold best typify the Razer BlackWidow experience, and what keyboard would typify this shoe?


----------



## KipH

I see what you did there









But I got to somewhat disagree. The bells and whistles on the Razor remind me of:


----------



## nmatavka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> I see what you did there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I got to somewhat disagree. The bells and whistles on the Razor remind me of:


I didn't mean to imply that the Razer experience was like my ultra-fancy shoes. I agree they are more like clown shoes. What keyboard DOES offer an experience like opera pumps?


----------



## nmatavka

Also (sorry for my double posting, if it's against forum rules) what are your thoughts on the pack-in Apple keyboard (laptop-style) versus the Unicomp SpaceSaver M? Does anybody like the Apple keyboard better than the Unicomp?


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> I'd be surprised if a store sold keycap pullers. It was almost impossible to even get a mech keyboard in store until Razer came out with them.
> However, it's fairly easy to just get some stiff wire, pliers, and bend yourself one. Just look at the pic and I'm sure you can figure something out.:


You can find them here: http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keyboard-accessories-2.html



Also if you have a noisy keyboard; get these dampenerr: http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keyboard-accessories-2/cherry-mx-rubber-switch-dampeners.html


----------



## Murlocke

I just got my Ducky Shine Blue LED. Does anyone feel these LEDs are more purple than blue? Only complaint.. otherwise seems amazing. I also don't have red LEDS for caps lock, etc like in the pictures, I do prefer having them all blue so it's not a complaint but more of a surprise. This thing is worlds better than my XArmor mechanical... both keyboards even used the same switches... yet this one feels completely better/different.


----------



## silat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Murlocke*
> 
> I just got my Ducky Shine Blue LED. Does anyone feel these LEDs are more purple than blue? Only complaint.. otherwise seems amazing. I also don't have red LEDS for caps lock, etc like in the pictures, I do prefer having them all blue so it's not a complaint but more of a surprise. This thing is worlds better than my XArmor mechanical... both keyboards even used the same switches... yet this one feels completely better/different.


I have the "purple" led shining and they are more towards pink to me.


----------



## TwistedMind

Got a hold of a in perfect condition IBM Model M 1391401 1988 keyboard. Will post photos in the club section soon, thinking about dying the keys before hand. This keyboard is a tank and is marvelous. Love the clickidyclack sounds. Took it apart to clean the keys and panels, there was like one spec of a dust ball, no seen of dropped liquids underneath the keys & panels. Got a top notch winner here







.

By the way, have any of yous seen that video of that idiot destroying a model m keyboard? I nearly dropped a tear drop, couldn't watch the rest.


----------



## csm725

Oh no.
That can't be true.


----------



## Nayoka

Brings a tear to my eye

---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?fep5af


----------



## Kokin

It's sad cause he couldn't do much damage to it even after burning it up with gas and fire. *Another one bites the dust*


----------



## ripster

Viewership of this thread is slowing down. I would have thought for sure it would have been at 2.5Mil by now.


----------



## Blindsay

Got my blackwidow ultimate today. It is my first mechanical keyboard, i had it shipped to work and i am testing it out here. i think my coworkers are glad its not staying here hahah


----------



## Jeci

New keyboard woop woop, i'll add to my list of boards













Filco majestouch 2 with mx browns, it's really nice to type on, a little softer than my model m, but a lot quieter which i think is the most important bit!


----------



## Tyus

I wonder is there any difference between Filco Majestouch Ninja and Filco Majestouch 2 other than the letters printed on the front face on the ninja ?


----------



## Jeci

Probably not, potential variations in switches, but apart from that, i think not.


----------



## _AKIMbO_

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tyus*
> 
> I wonder is there any difference between Filco Majestouch Ninja and Filco Majestouch 2 other than the letters printed on the front face on the ninja ?


The Filco logo on the side of the keyboard is darker. Other than that and the side printed key caps, there are no differences.


----------



## fatfree

Greetings, folks.

I am considering getting one of these keyboards: Topre 88 45g, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL Brown, Ducky Shine Brown. Mostly gaming, some regular typing. Can someone put them in order of build quality? Whilst Topres and Filcos are top end, I don't know what to think of not-so-big-name-player as Ducky.

As I understand it, I cannot use Cherry keycaps for Topre, neither I've seen them on sale anywhere. Are Topre's keycaps everlasting or demand that low?

Also I've wached a couple of Filco Ping videos, and couldn't get whats it all about. So I guess it defines a lot about me in world of mechanical keyboards.


----------



## magna224

Realforce has exceptional quality as well as Costar keyboards(Filco). Either way you go you will have top of the line quality, The one thing I see the Realforce having over the Filco is the higher quality keycaps and dipswitches. The Ducky ,I have heard from some, is on the same level as a Filco but I have no real world experience with them so I would personally not trust it as much.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fatfree*
> 
> Greetings, folks.
> I am considering getting one of these keyboards: Topre 88 45g, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL Brown, Ducky Shine Brown. Mostly gaming, some regular typing. Can someone put them in order of build quality? Whilst Topres and Filcos are top end, I don't know what to think of not-so-big-name-player as Ducky.
> As I understand it, I cannot use Cherry keycaps for Topre, neither I've seen them on sale anywhere. Are Topre's keycaps everlasting or demand that low?


Order from best to worst build quality would definitely be Topre, Filco, Ducky.

Since topre's do not use cherry switches, they can not take cherry keys. Not like you would ever want to, the topre key caps are so well made and feel awesome. They have a bit of texturing on the tops that is really neat.

Anyways, you shouldn't be lumping the topre and cherry boards together in your decision. They are a completely different feel, and in a completely different price range. I would look into the switches more, and decide what sounds like you would prefer.... then decide to either go with Topre, or a cherry board.


----------



## fatfree

Thanks a lot for feedback. So far I can't make my mind. Certanly I love perfect craftmanship of Topre, while on the other hand cherry boards allow a lot of customization like keycaps, rubber rings, etc, which I am very fond of as well. Boosted with PBT keycaps Filco would cost as much as Topre. So prices aren't that different.
Regarding feel. I am most familiar with Black switches how would they be comparible with Topre's 45g? In the place I live I don't have a chance to try Topre anywhere.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fatfree*
> 
> Thanks a lot for feedback. So far I can't make my mind. Certanly I love perfect craftmanship of Topre, while on the other hand cherry boards allow a lot of customization like keycaps, rubber rings, etc, which I am very fond of as well. Boosted with PBT keycaps Filco would cost as much as Topre. So prices aren't that different.
> Regarding feel. I am most familiar with Black switches how would they be comparible with Topre's 45g? In the place I live I don't have a chance to try Topre anywhere.


Topre's are very well made rubber dome boards. The only similarity to mx blacks is about how much pressure it takes to press the key down. If you really like the mechanical feeling of the Cherrys you'll probably want to stick with them. Otherwise, I would go with the Realforce.


----------



## Jodiuh

Hello mechanical keyboard experts!!!!

I've been using a Logitech Illuminated for a couple years now, but recently tried a friends SS mechanical (the big one with the huge wrist wrest). I'm looking at the CM Quickfire Rapid and the Ducky Shine. I've narrowed it down to browns or reds, but I'm honestly not sure which I would prefer. I do game, so that is a consideration towards the reds...

Thanks!


----------



## csm725

Browns are good for gaming as well.


----------



## terminaldawn

I am currently using a razer lycosa and I love the flat rubber keys. Is there a mechanical keyboard out there that has similar flat rubber keys? According to the guide the Deck Legend does, however looking at reviews it looks as though the keys are rounded? Otherwise any other reccomendations are welcome!

Thanks!


----------



## desire secrets

I just had a quick look at my boyfriends new Deck Legend Cherry Black... They are rounded keys. He was not impressed with me getting right down, staring at and touching his keys while he was there... bahahaha!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeci*
> 
> New keyboard woop woop, i'll add to my list of boards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filco majestouch 2 with mx browns, it's really nice to type on, a little softer than my model m, but a lot quieter which i think is the most important bit!


Jeci - I am officially jealous.







Seeing these pictures has convinced me to get this keyboard! I fell in love with the blank keys of the Das Ultimate while he was researching mechanical keyboards with full LED's. It will allow me to have my blank keys on top, and still have keys on the side for when the kids start using my pc.
I've been trolling youtube and reviews of mechanical keyboards the last few days as well, I've been using his old Microsoft kb after my 7yo NEC died a horrible, horrible, key abducting, coffee tsunamis, crumbling death.... and it's horrible to type on! So this will be my first mechanical keyboard. Hooray for decisions!


----------



## magna224

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *terminaldawn*
> 
> I am currently using a razer lycosa and I love the flat rubber keys. Is there a mechanical keyboard out there that has similar flat rubber keys? According to the guide the Deck Legend does, however looking at reviews it looks as though the keys are rounded? Otherwise any other reccomendations are welcome!
> Thanks!


They are talking about the row orientation. If you look at most keyboards from the side the keycaps are different heights and some are slanted. The deck keyboards do not have this, theirs are laid out flat and straight.


----------



## thenk83

Thanks for the guide.


----------



## Zibri

I have an IBM Model M "clicky" keyboard.

IMHO buckling spring mechanism is the best one. Great click sound, 60-65g of force needed and the click happens at the very same time the key is registered.

I will try some cherry mx blue when I find one (In italy mechanical keyboards are not wide spread) but as of now I have yet to find a better one.


----------



## Kokin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jodiuh*
> 
> Hello mechanical keyboard experts!!!!
> I've been using a Logitech Illuminated for a couple years now, but recently tried a friends SS mechanical (the big one with the huge wrist wrest). I'm looking at the CM Quickfire Rapid and the Ducky Shine. I've narrowed it down to browns or reds, but I'm honestly not sure which I would prefer. I do game, so that is a consideration towards the reds...
> Thanks!


I had this issue as well, but I decided to go Browns mostly due to the recommendations here. To be honest, I can't really feel the tactility of my keys unless I press on them softly, so they almost qualify as Red switches. These are much softer keys to type on though, so you'll notice it won't take a lot of force to actually make the keys go down compared to rubber dome switches. One thing I should mention is that I tend to bottom out most of the time since I have rubber o-rings that reduce the bottoming out travel distance and also feel very soft.


----------



## lightsout

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kokin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Jodiuh*
> 
> Hello mechanical keyboard experts!!!!
> I've been using a Logitech Illuminated for a couple years now, but recently tried a friends SS mechanical (the big one with the huge wrist wrest). I'm looking at the CM Quickfire Rapid and the Ducky Shine. I've narrowed it down to browns or reds, but I'm honestly not sure which I would prefer. I do game, so that is a consideration towards the reds...
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> I had this issue as well, but I decided to go Browns mostly due to the recommendations here. To be honest, I can't really feel the tactility of my keys unless I press on them softly, so they almost qualify as Red switches. These are much softer keys to type on though, so you'll notice it won't take a lot of force to actually make the keys go down compared to rubber dome switches. One thing I should mention is that I tend to bottom out most of the time since I have rubber o-rings that reduce the bottoming out travel distance and also feel very soft.
Click to expand...

There is not a lot of tactility in browns but you will definitely notice a difference with reds.

Not huge but they are different. I recently went back to reds after using browns for a couple months. Loving the reds for gamiing. They just feel so fast and smooth.


----------



## El_Capitan

I love this guide, probably the best guide for Mechanical Keyboards I've read, yet! Even linked to it on my blog where I evaluated five different Mechanical Keyboards with Cherry MX switches (includes a video I created). Here's a link to a link to it provided by another awesome OCN member: http://www.overclock.net/t/1243959/hwc-amd-confirms-price-drop-on-hd-7970-hd-7950-hd-7770-adds-3-for-free-game-promo/110#post_16992967

Reds and Browns are pretty similar, but I prefer the slight tactility in Browns. I don't think anyone will be disappointed in either type of switch.


----------



## ripster

Hopelessly out of date if you ask me but some accuse me of being biased.


----------



## variant

One of my biggest worries for mechanical keyboards is the higher profile of the keys compared to the rubber dome keys. I don't want the extra height to cause strain on my wrist while gaming. Are there any mechanical keyboards with lower profiles? I prefer lower gram key resistance as well.


----------



## BigT

If you are worried about extra strain on your wrist get a keyboard with a palm rest. And if you like lightkeys get some cherry reds. I woudl say go for a keyboard from WASD keyboards, with the palm rest and cherry reds.

Before I got my Steelseries 7G I used a Razer Lycosa, and I was worried about the strain on my fingers and wrist, and to be honest there was no extra strain.Low profile keys dont really do anythign for you.


----------



## Kokin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *variant*
> 
> One of my biggest worries for mechanical keyboards is the higher profile of the keys compared to the rubber dome keys. I don't want the extra height to cause strain on my wrist while gaming. Are there any mechanical keyboards with lower profiles? I prefer lower gram key resistance as well.


You could always get any generic gel wrist rest. It only costs $5-10 in many office/electronic stores and should work with full-sized and TKL keyboards.

For me, there was a difference from using a Razer Lycosa, which is low-profile, to using my KBT Race with a wrist rest. The Lycosa was flat, from the wrist rest all the way to the F keys, which meant that it was hard to feel where certain keys were during touch typing (lots of typos). With many mech keyboards, they usually have varying heights for each row, so it's easier to distinguish one row from another and really helps you type quicker with less typos.


----------



## Desert Rat

Im looking for a gaming/general purpose mech keyboard. From what I understan the Brown Cherry MX should work fine for that but to be honest Im getting overwhelmed with all the info out there. Can you guys help me pick a nice bang for the buck keyboard that has blue iluminated keys and comfortable to game for hours? I never had anything but $10 keyboards on $3k+ computers.....


----------



## pococurante

For anyone who needs a Red switch board, Newegg is selling the Rosewill full-sized (with 10 key pad) keyboard with Cherry Red switches, it's on sale for $80 shipped right now.


----------



## csm725

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Desert Rat*
> 
> Im looking for a gaming/general purpose mech keyboard. From what I understan the Brown Cherry MX should work fine for that but to be honest Im getting overwhelmed with all the info out there. Can you guys help me pick a nice bang for the buck keyboard that has blue iluminated keys and comfortable to game for hours? I never had anything but $10 keyboards on $3k+ computers.....


And you ask this before PMing me?


----------



## Manooloo

Hey guys. Looking to get myself a nice mechanical keyboard, mainly for gaming. I was primarily looking for a tenkeyless board and probably going for a Cherry MX. I narrowed it down two three choices and need some recommendations:

Noppoo Choc-Mini MX Brown
CM Storm Quickfire Rapid
Filco Ninja Majestouch-2

Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manooloo*
> 
> Hey guys. Looking to get myself a nice mechanical keyboard, mainly for gaming. I was primarily looking for a tenkeyless board and probably going for a Cherry MX. I narrowed it down two three choices and need some recommendations:
> Noppoo Choc-Mini MX Brown
> CM Storm Quickfire Rapid
> Filco Ninja Majestouch-2
> Any help would be appreciated.


Good choices!

Are you going for black, brown or red? The CM Storm in red is nice and at a lower price than the others. Makes it easy to buy.
But other than that I think your are getting into personal choice, and budget, option area. They are all good boards, so buy the one that looks best to you.


----------



## Manooloo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Good choices!
> Are you going for black, brown or red? The CM Storm in red is nice and at a lower price than the others. Makes it easy to buy.
> But other than that I think your are getting into personal choice, and budget, option area. They are all good boards, so buy the one that looks best to you.


Would I be right in saying that the Filco is the top end out of the ones I've shortlisted?


----------



## KipH

Yes, it is probably the best until you get up to RealForce level. You get the others because you like the price, looks or features.


----------



## Manooloo

Personally do you guys believe the price difference is worth it?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manooloo*
> 
> Personally do you guys believe the price difference is worth it?


Not really IMO.


----------



## ripster

If you want to save money get the Tenkeyless Filco. Use the $20 for a good bottle of wine.


----------



## Manooloo

But the Filco is the dearest.


----------



## bwana

Well I cant seem to find any reference in this thread to the max keyboard - the nighthawk x8. Here:
http://www.ergogeek.com/max-keyboard-nighthawk-x8-backlit-mechanical-keyboard-special-edition.html

cherry brown and backlit.

but i am wondering if anyone has used this keyboard to comment on the build quality- good as a filco or plasticky?


----------



## goldbranch

I'm thinking of getting one TG3 BL82 keyboard from here.

My question is: does it support 2kro / 6kro or nkro? It seems to have the PS/2 input though.

And Cherry MX black is recommended for gaming, right?


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bwana*
> 
> Well I cant seem to find any reference in this thread to the max keyboard - the nighthawk x8. Here:
> http://www.ergogeek.com/max-keyboard-nighthawk-x8-backlit-mechanical-keyboard-special-edition.html
> cherry brown and backlit.
> but i am wondering if anyone has used this keyboard to comment on the build quality- good as a filco or plasticky?


That looks mighty familiar. Is that the I-one OEM I posted about at last years Computex?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *goldbranch*
> 
> I'm thinking of getting one TG3 BL82 keyboard from here.
> My question is: does it support 2kro / 6kro or nkro? It seems to have the PS/2 input though.
> And Cherry MX black is recommended for gaming, right?


Black is recommended if you do a lot of very fast double tapping. If you type more blues are recommended. But in all cases, if you can try them first, personal preference is more important than any recommended ideal. Myself I love the reds and I thought that would not be. The lightness just makes me a better touch typist.


----------



## goldbranch

Thanks. And does PS/2 input means NKRO for all mechanical keyboards?


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Yes, it is probably the best until you get up to RealForce level. You get the others because you like the price, looks or features.


I think that's rather subjective. I have a Noppoo Choc Mini, CM Storm Quickfire Rapid, and Realforce 87U. While the Realforce definitely has the nicest keycaps, its build quality does not seem any more solid than the Quickfire. I also prefer the way Cherry switches feel over Realforce, but I understand that that's a matter of personal taste.

I would choose either the Choc or Quickfire, depending on layout preference. Noppoo has better keycaps but there are no replacements available for its spacebar and it has an unusual layout which you may or may not like. The Quickfire's keycaps aren't great, but it uses a standard tenkeyless layout and offers some of the best build quality at one of the lowest prices for a mechanical keyboard.


----------



## Manooloo

I've ordered my Filco MT2-Ninja TKL. I'm also considering ordering some white keys from WASD. Is WASD the best place to buy keys? I live in Ireland btw.


----------



## LBear

Has anyone here used cherry backs for gaming? Ive read that they require more force to activate. So will one experience fatigue at all or when holding down a key using the pinky finger (holding down the shift key for FPS)? Gonna order a keyboard this week but Im thinking bout getting cherry reds now.


----------



## Omega215d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LBear*
> 
> Has anyone here used cherry backs for gaming? Ive read that they require more force to activate. So will one experience fatigue at all or when holding down a key using the pinky finger (holding down the shift key for FPS)? Gonna order a keyboard this week but Im thinking bout getting cherry reds now.


I had the Thermaltake Meka G1 that uses MX-Black switches. Yes, it required a bit more force to bottom out but actuation was rather normal and the heaviness was a sign for me to back off when typing or double tapping. At first it did put some wear on my fingers (long bouts of BlackOps, MW3 and BF:BC/ BF3 and DE: HR) but I got used to it and it wasn't a problem for typing or gaming. That said, the keyboard went back because I did prefer more of a tactile feedback and the key caps were just cheaply printed and had no back lighting (I thought I could do without).

Give one a try if you can. Return it if it doesn't suit you and you'll have an idea of what you want in your keyboards. Right now it seems MX-Brown switches are best for me but I am perfectly happy with my current Blackwidow Ultimate and it's blue switches. I'm patiently waiting for the CM Storm Trigger to show up on Newegg.


----------



## dan123123

browns/reds with blank keys #1#1#1


----------



## ThePandaman

Hey guys, I got a question you. I'm lookin to buy a mechanical keyboard, there's just one problem. The keyboard I want is only available with US layout. Is it possible to convert it to European layout, if so, how easy/time consuming would it be?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThePandaman*
> 
> Hey guys, I got a question you. I'm lookin to buy a mechanical keyboard, there's just one problem. The keyboard I want is only available with US layout. Is it possible to convert it to European layout, if so, how easy/time consuming would it be?


To change the keys physical location is quite difficult and time consuming. However you can just change the layout to EU and a lot of the keys functions will change, just the legends will be incorrect. I use a Japanese keyboard set to US layout... but that's mostly a matter of ignoring the extra keys and legends.

I think you may be able to remap any missing keys with software if any functionality is missing from setting the layout to EU.


----------



## ThePandaman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> To change the keys physical location is quite difficult and time consuming. However you can just change the layout to EU and a lot of the keys functions will change, just the legends will be incorrect. I use a Japanese keyboard set to US layout... but that's mostly a matter of ignoring the extra keys and legends.
> I think you may be able to remap any missing keys with software if any functionality is missing from setting the layout to EU.


Alright, thank you for the reply. I don't think I'll ever get used to a keyboard with a different layout.
I've just written an email to wasdkeyboards.com about making a white keyboard. Does anyone have any experience with their keyboards?


----------



## dan123123

suppose to be pretty good, i think i read somewhere on geekhack that they use the same OEM as filco but idk


----------



## archy121

moved


----------



## Jo0

Is there any safe way to remove the rosewill logo on their keyboard without hurting the finish of the plastic?


----------



## variant

I have been leaning towards getting a CM Trigger when it is available, but I am worried that the rubbery material on the keys will wear out as someone pointed out for the other CM keyboards. Would there be a way to replace the key caps in the future with backlight friendly key caps?

Also, I am torn between getting a brown switch version upon release or waiting later for a red switch version. Does anyone know how long the red switch version will be released after the brown switch version? How different are the two switch types?


----------



## KipH

rubbery material on the keys? Don't know about that. The ones I am typing on now are a nice hard plastic feeling. The caps are a bit lighter than some of the other boards I have tried but not rubbery. Have you heard something about the Trigger I have not?

The other questions? Look for the CM forum in the OCN vendors section. I bet they would be able to tell you fast there.


----------



## 0CALEFACTION0

What keyboard should I get if I will be playing FPS's and RPG's?


----------



## SmartedPAnda

Anybody know of a mechanical keyboard, that doesn't have the number keys on the right side, USB mini powered, chinese developed and mechanical? I can't find it, it was around $90! Feel like I'm going insane.


----------



## viowastaken

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmartedPAnda*
> 
> Anybody know of a mechanical keyboard, that doesn't have the number keys on the right side, USB mini powered, chinese developed and mechanical? I can't find it, it was around $90! Feel like I'm going insane.


USB mini powered? what's that?
The keyboards without the numpad cluster are called Tenkeyless and exist in many shapes and forms from a lot of different manufacturers. My personal favs are Filco's Noppoo mini's and CMStorm quickfires. The filco is more expensive, but the two others are around $90 or less.


----------



## KipH

Chinese? That could be Filco, CM Storm, iOne, iRocks or Ducky. They all have a 10 key less model I think.
The Quick Fire uses a detachable mini0USB cord. But so do some others'

Any other hints?


----------



## SmartedPAnda

I found it! KBC Poker, took me forever because I realized it's not sold in the U.S. officially. It was late and I was a midnight realization.


----------



## magna224

The prices are usually $99-110+shipping for pokers. This case is something that I think is very much worth the money for a poker though. Out of the box the poker feels not so hefty, similar to a cherry keyboard.


----------



## XtremeBawls

I'm curious why the Max Keyboards aren't listed on here? I ran across them a few days ago and they look to be a decent board. Curious if anyone has used them and if they can make a comparison with any other boards? (Filco if possible) I was originally looking for a backlit board with media keys a year or so ago when I got my first mechanical board, but ended up going with a Filco Ninja Majestouch(MX Brown's) after hearing great things and have been very happy with it. I'm considering purchasing a Max Durandal G1NL for my main rig and moving the Filco down to another computer, assuming I prefer typing with the Max, that is.


----------



## 3930K

EDIT :NVM


----------



## SUPERBONG

Killer deal on Rosewill Mechanical Keyboard RK-9000 with Cherry MX Switch

Linky

Just got one.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XtremeBawls*
> 
> I'm curious why the Max Keyboards aren't listed on here? I ran across them a few days ago and they look to be a decent board. Curious if anyone has used them and if they can make a comparison with any other boards? (Filco if possible) I was originally looking for a backlit board with media keys a year or so ago when I got my first mechanical board, but ended up going with a Filco Ninja Majestouch(MX Brown's) after hearing great things and have been very happy with it. I'm considering purchasing a Max Durandal G1NL for my main rig and moving the Filco down to another computer, assuming I prefer typing with the Max, that is.


Nobody edits this anymore is why.

Try PMing Reaper, he's a OCN peripherals editor.

Two of them, I'm talking about this one:

http://www.overclock.net/u/100601/reaper


----------



## magicase

I'm planning to buy a CoolerMaster Storm Trigger Cherry Red soon and it ticks all the boxes of requirements i need for a mech keyboard but i'm worried about one thing.

The rubber layer around the keyboard is apparently nice to feel but easy to wear. I'm wondering how long this rubber layer will last before it fades away.


----------



## ripster

I used to doubt the body chemistry theory but now am a believer.

Best way to tell is to check your rubberised mice. The keyboard SHOULD last a bit longer than that unless you rest wrist/palm/fingers on front of keyboard.


----------



## magicase

I noticed the edges on my logitech illuminated keyboard are faded a bit and i had that keyboard for around 2 years. Quality of the CM could be more or less so hard to say.

The rubber on my G500 which is 2 years old too isn't fading at all.


----------



## magicase

Question from a friend. Will mech keyboards work with Mac computers and if so which ones?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *magicase*
> 
> Question from a friend. Will mech keyboards work with Mac computers and if so which ones?


Most work, the ones that tend to have problems are the ones that do more then 6kro over USB.


----------



## variant

Anyone have a release date on Gigabyte's new mechanical keyboard?


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *variant*
> 
> Anyone have a release date on Gigabyte's new mechanical keyboard?


I got a brief look at it at Computex. It looks OK, but not as new or exciting as the old 800 was. No word on when but I expect it soon. I am contacting them for a review and will let you know as soon as I know.


----------



## Enth

Hi. Sorry for my english I'm Ukrainian. I became interested "Double-Shot Injection Molding" technology. OCN Keycap do only flame or I can order any characters symbols? OCN Keycap can be used with led light? I would have bought a full set of this keycaps.


----------



## mikailmohammed

Hey where can the gigabyte osmium???


----------



## Lt.AldoRaine

Did geekhack.org die? :/


----------



## ripster

Moribund. (X_X)

http://www.overclock.net/t/1276281/geekhacks-temporary-home


----------



## Lt.AldoRaine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster*
> 
> Moribund. (X_X)
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1276281/geekhacks-temporary-home


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lt.AldoRaine*
> 
> Did geekhack.org die? :/


iirc it was hacked.


----------



## ripster

Happens every two months like clockwork.

This guy wants the Geekhack name for bragging rights and name recognition.

I have to say it is working. I must have seen this pic on a dozen forums aroundd the world.
http://i.imgur.com/IRiNG.png

P.S. and STOP PMING me about this! No, I am NOT R00TW0RM!

I see HTML and i think my Hotmail.


----------



## remnant

have this thread ever considered adding a review/recommend section for modern mech keyboards?


----------



## ripster

I think the article editor is dead or something. Or R00TW0RMed.


----------



## SDub

Hey guys! I posted a separate thread about coming to a conclusion about purchasing a mechanical keyboard. Basically what it's coming down to is people's testimonials about their particular favorite switch as it pertains to my usage. I'm a gamer, and I enjoy my typing, but it's all leisure and not work. I've heard that blacks and reds with their linear switches lend themselves towards gaming. To people using these switches I would like to know if you struggle with learning to actuate the switch w/o bottoming out while spamming keys, particularly the same one over and over again.

My other option is Cherry MX Brown or Blue switches. Any testimonies from gamers (the more important of my preferences) about using browns/blues?

The KBs I'm looking at are the CM Storm Quick Fire Rapid, the Rosewill RK-9000, or the Leopold Tenkeyless.

Also, who prefers costar to cherry stabilizers or vice versa?


----------



## Mr.Pie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SDub*
> 
> Hey guys! I posted a separate thread about coming to a conclusion about purchasing a mechanical keyboard. Basically what it's coming down to is people's testimonials about their particular favorite switch as it pertains to my usage. I'm a gamer, and I enjoy my typing, but it's all leisure and not work. I've heard that blacks and reds with their linear switches lend themselves towards gaming. To people using these switches I would like to know if you struggle with learning to actuate the switch w/o bottoming out while spamming keys, particularly the same one over and over again.
> My other option is Cherry MX Brown or Blue switches. Any testimonies from gamers (the more important of my preferences) about using browns/blues?
> The KBs I'm looking at are the CM Storm Quick Fire Rapid, the Rosewill RK-9000, or the Leopold Tenkeyless.
> Also, who prefers costar to cherry stabilizers or vice versa?


blues are loud without o-rings or sound dampners!
I myself have a ducky shine with cherry blues and I can tell my parents get annoyed when I end up spamming keys when playing a MMO or typing rapidly.

can't comment on browns. I've used black switches but didn't really like them.

I'm very satisfied with my ducky shine vs the OEM dell keyboard that i used to use.


----------



## Farih

Is there a place where i can buy Custom Cherry MX keycaps and O-rings in The Netherlands or that will ship to me ?

Thanks in advance


----------



## dan55

Hi All,

Has anyone tried the XArmor U9W? It's the only wireless mechanical keyboard I can find, and I'd like to try it out if it's halfway decent.

http://www.amazon.com/XArmor-U9W-wireless-mechanical-keyboard/dp/B004S862FW

Thanks!


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dan55*
> 
> Hi All,
> Has anyone tried the XArmor U9W? It's the only wireless mechanical keyboard I can find, and I'd like to try it out if it's halfway decent.
> http://www.amazon.com/XArmor-U9W-wireless-mechanical-keyboard/dp/B004S862FW
> Thanks!


I have not tried it but: good OEM, good layout, great price on sale there. I would get it. Then let us know how it is.


----------



## csm725

Phaedrus reviewed it.
http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/xarmor-u9w-u27-prototype-t190.html
He reviewed it on OCN too but I can't seem to find the link right now.


----------



## dan55

Awesome. Thanks for the feedback and the link. Think I'll pick one up and report back!


----------



## csm725

Cool. Let us know!


----------



## cesthree

This page is...1337.


----------



## thegh0sts

OK, looking to get a mechanical keyboard so i can ditch the logitech G15 and i was looking to get one for gaming and I am tossing up between the Filco majestouch2 (104-key) cherry red and the cherry brown version.

is red better for gaming? personally i can't tell the difference between red and brown.


----------



## Farih

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thegh0sts*
> 
> OK, looking to get a mechanical keyboard so i can ditch the logitech G15 and i was looking to get one for gaming and I am tossing up between the Filco majestouch2 (104-key) cherry red and the cherry brown version.
> is red better for gaming? personally i can't tell the difference between red and brown.


Have not tryed browns but red switches are indeed nice for gaming and tbh i like typing on it to.
Red switches are very responsive but do make alot of clicky sounds.

I came from a Logitech G110 and switched to a Corsair K60 and the difference is night and day.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farih*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *thegh0sts*
> 
> OK, looking to get a mechanical keyboard so i can ditch the logitech G15 and i was looking to get one for gaming and I am tossing up between the Filco majestouch2 (104-key) cherry red and the cherry brown version.
> is red better for gaming? personally i can't tell the difference between red and brown.
> 
> 
> 
> Have not tryed browns but red switches are indeed nice for gaming and tbh i like typing on it to.
> Red switches are very responsive but do make alot of clicky sounds.
> 
> I came from a Logitech G110 and switched to a Corsair K60 and the difference is night and day.
Click to expand...

I prefer blues, but then I've only tried blues


----------



## crue3

this is so nice


----------



## Farih

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> I prefer blues, but then I've only tried blues


Thats the thing... i only tryed red.

All i can say is once you go mechanical you never go back.


----------



## thegh0sts

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farih*
> 
> Have not tryed browns but red switches are indeed nice for gaming and tbh i like typing on it to.
> Red switches are very responsive but do make alot of clicky sounds.
> I came from a Logitech G110 and switched to a Corsair K60 and the difference is night and day.


after reading this guide...

http://www.gamersedge.co.uk/2011/09/mechanical-switch-guide/

i may go with the cherry brown over the red but the shop i was looking at has the cherry brown for a few $$ more.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farih*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> I prefer blues, but then I've only tried blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats the thing... i only tryed red.
> 
> All i can say is once you go mechanical you never go back.
Click to expand...

Yes that's true.


----------



## thegh0sts

OK, I picked up a filco majestouch2 cherry red keyboard today...will see how i fair on it.


----------



## Jayrock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thegh0sts*
> 
> OK, I picked up a filco majestouch2 cherry red keyboard today...will see how i fair on it.


You will not be disappointed.


----------



## lightsout

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thegh0sts*
> 
> OK, I picked up a filco majestouch2 cherry red keyboard today...will see how i fair on it.


Very nice board. If you have never used reds they will feel very light at first. Easy to make mistakes. But you'll get used to it.


----------



## csm725

Anyone here have a 55g Topre board?


----------



## thegh0sts

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lightsout*
> 
> Very nice board. If you have never used reds they will feel very light at first. Easy to make mistakes. But you'll get used to it.


i've noticed that when i started using it....and it's clicky too









sure beats the logitech G15 i had before and it was starting to get a bit rough around the edges and it needed to be retired.


----------



## dan55

I received the XArmor U9W a few days ago and have been using it for most of today. The build quality is not great (whatever hinges are supposed to attach the wrist wrest to the board seem to have broken in transit, for example), but it's perfectly functional and I'm enjoying my first mechanical keyboard. These keys are a bit loud for my taste, but typing and gaming are much more enjoyable than before. I'd be really interested in seeing some wireless mechanicals from some of the popular manufacturers.


----------



## Plutonium10

I'm about to take a dive into the world of mechanical keyboards and order a Filco Majestouch but I'm having trouble deciding between the normal Majestouch 2 and the Ninja. I like the idea of the Ninja since the writing will never wear off my keycaps, but how easy is it to see the side-printed keys while typing? I can't really touch type (sadly) so I'm wondering if this would be a problem or not.


----------



## thegh0sts

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Plutonium10*
> 
> I'm about to take a dive into the world of mechanical keyboards and order a Filco Majestouch but I'm having trouble deciding between the normal Majestouch 2 and the Ninja. I like the idea of the Ninja since the writing will never wear off my keycaps, but how easy is it to see the side-printed keys while typing? I can't really touch type (sadly) so I'm wondering if this would be a problem or not.


neither can i so i went with the majestouch 2 in cherry mx red.

i like typing fast cos it makes me feel like i can touch type when i really can't and if i do it's ain't fast enough!


----------



## Plutonium10

Yeah, I gave it some more thought and just ordered a Majestouch 2 in MX Browns. Should be at my front door in 2 days!







If the writing actually does wear off the pad printed keycaps quickly, I'll just buy a set of laser etched caps from WASD and be done with it.


----------



## samhandwich

Hi folks - I'd love a mechanical keyboard, but I don't have much to spend. It's just for typing, and I do need the tenkey. From what I've read, seems like Cherry MX Blue is the way to go.

Any suggestions for an inexpensive choice?

Thanks!

....Oops, sorry - I see there are a whole bunch of threads to look through.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *samhandwich*
> 
> Hi folks - I'd love a mechanical keyboard, but I don't have much to spend. It's just for typing, and I do need the tenkey. From what I've read, seems like Cherry MX Blue is the way to go.
> Any suggestions for an inexpensive choice?
> Thanks!
> ....Oops, sorry - I see there are a whole bunch of threads to look through.


There are, but right now the best deal in boards is probably the CM Storm Quick Fire Rapid. I have the red a below version. Good boards at a good price.
Or find an old Model M at a yard sale for $5 and you are good to go







Good luck with that. Ebay has them for much more.


----------



## KipH

Are them simplified Blue Alps? Should that be tactile not linear like the description says? I am not a fan of Alps, I am a Himalayan guy myself.


----------



## carvalhomourao

First of all, excellent topic on mechanical keyboards! I've never read something so complete and now I understand (or at least I think I do) the difference between the switches.

However, I have a doubt. I live in Brazil and here we use ABNT2 layout and I wonder if I there is a place where I can order a custom mechanical keyboard. Or can I just buy custom keys with the character I want and replace the existing keys of US based keyboard ?

To illustrate:

US Layout:









ABNT2 (Brazilian Layout):









Thanks!


----------



## Plutonium10

Have a look at WASD Keyboards. I'm not 100% sure, but I think they could probably make you up a set of Brazilian Layout keys if you got in touch with them.

http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/


----------



## carvalhomourao

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Plutonium10*
> 
> Have a look at WASD Keyboards. I'm not 100% sure, but I think they could probably make you up a set of Brazilian Layout keys if you got in touch with them.
> http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/


Thanks, I'm checking it right now.


----------



## sepheroth003

Never tried a mechanical keyboard afaik, looking around work to see if theres one stored somewhere lol


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carvalhomourao*
> 
> First of all, excellent topic on mechanical keyboards! I've never read something so complete and now I understand (or at least I think I do) the difference between the switches.
> 
> ....I wonder if I there is a place where I can order a custom mechanical keyboard.


Unicomp. I'm not sure if WASD is setup for ISO style layouts yet.

BTW This IS the most complete Mechanical Keyboard Guide On The Planet.

ESPECIALLY since the Geekhack Moderator team seemed to have lost all of this!


http://imgur.com/oGyhu


>500K page views, all R00TW0RMED because of poor backup processes.
http://i.imgur.com/LfTcK.png


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster*
> 
> Unicomp. I'm not sure if WASD is setup for ISO style layouts yet.
> BTW This IS the most complete Mechanical Keyboard Guide On The Planet.
> ESPECIALLY since the Geekhack Moderator team seemed to have lost all of this!
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/oGyhu
> 
> >500K page views, all R00TW0RMED because of poor backup processes.
> http://i.imgur.com/LfTcK.png


Apparently WASD has ISO layout in brown black and red. ANSI in blue brown black and red. Red is $10 extra.


----------



## ripster

WASD is great!


http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/wasd-v1-105-key-iso-semi-custom-mechanical-keyboard.html


----------



## developej

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carvalhomourao*
> 
> I live in Brazil


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster*
> 
> Unicomp.


Unicomp doesn't ship to Brasil - http://support.pckeyboard.com/knowledgebase.php?article=47
Quote:


> We discontinued shipping to Brazil because a few of our past customers refused to pay the import customs duties. Unicomp then had to pay the duties and also pay to have the product returned. The Brazil customs duties are very high (80%+) and most customers don't realize that when ordering. FedEx shipping to Brazil is also very high ($70+). If you can agree to pay the shipping and customs, we can make alternate ordering arrangements. Send you order inquiry to [email protected]


It is possible to arrange it with them, but I don't know how cooperative they are...you can also get a middleman, but either way it will still cost you a lot more than you probably thought.


----------



## ripster

80% duties?


----------



## developej

they say it's 80% (i'm guessing thats with all the taxes you need to pay in brazil)...
here is for vat and it IS pretty high:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_added_tax#Non-EU_countries


----------



## TheNephilim

Does anyone have any experience with the Max Keyboard Nighthawk X8: http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard-nighthawk-x8-blue-backlit-mechanical-keyboard.html

I actually wanted to get myself a Model S Professional from Das Keyboard, but I dont like the shiny base and my current Logitech G15v2 has backlit keys, which I'm probably gonna miss. Besides, the X8 looks realy slik and sturdy.


----------



## 4514kaiser

Hey I really like the design of the Topre Keys (tad high profile but otherwise perfect) but I can't seem to find ANY gaming Topre keyboards out there! Are there any Topre 'Gaming' Keyboards with the usual bells and whistles?

I was hoping to get one with (Price is not really an issue)









- Macros keys
- Backlit
- Wrist rest
- Media keys!
- Volume controllers


----------



## ripster

I'd like to take a moment and say at 2.6M Views this Mechanical Keyboard Guidei kicks Geechack's Mechanical Keyboard Guides's ass across the room.

http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=Mechanical_Keyboards


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4514kaiser*
> 
> Hey I really like the design of the Topre Keys (tad high profile but otherwise perfect) but I can't seem to find ANY gaming Topre keyboards out there! Are there any Topre 'Gaming' Keyboards with the usual bells and whistles?
> I was hoping to get one with (Price is not really an issue)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Macros keys
> - Backlit
> - Wrist rest
> - Media keys!
> - Volume controllers


Topre is the Cadillac of keys. It is the ultimate typing keyboard. "Gaming" is not what they do. But you can have any colour you want, as long as it is black.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Topre is the Cadillac of keys. It is the ultimate typing keyboard. "Gaming" is not what they do. But you can have any colour you want, as long as it is black.


I wouldn't say that. They are excellent for gaming, and you can get other colors if you want them bad enough.


----------



## Mehdi

I'm going with CM Quick Fire blues at the moment, only because you can find them on Amazon for $65 shipped. Browns are $105, so I'm going to pass on those for now. I may end up giving them a temporary try though, just for comparison, then returning it back to amazon.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Topre is the Cadillac of keys. It is the ultimate typing keyboard. "Gaming" is not what they do. But you can have any colour you want, as long as it is black.


They're extremely smooth when it comes to typing though so it might be possible as long as you don't mind not having linear travel (sort of. It's just a rubber dome caving in the last time I remembered. The spring provides the smooth, linear feeling).


----------



## Lt.AldoRaine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Topre ... "Gaming" is not what they do.


Not really, I have an 87u and gaming is actually a true joy on this board.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> (Snip) you can get other colors if you want them bad enough.]


Crazy living up to his name ;p

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> They're extremely smooth when it comes to typing though so it might be possible as long as you don't mind not having linear travel (sort of. It's just a rubber dome caving in the last time I remembered. The spring provides the smooth, linear feeling).


Smooth is what I was thinking about with the Caddy reference. Not that you can't game with them, you can, they are great boards. You just don't rice them up with lights and NOX and stuff LOL







Unless you are Crazy ^


----------



## 4514kaiser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Crazy living up to his name ;p
> Smooth is what I was thinking about with the Caddy reference. Not that you can't game with them, you can, they are great boards. You just don't rice them up with lights and NOX and stuff LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you are Crazy ^


Hmmm so i take it that there are no 'Gaming' Topre based keyboards! Thats a shame..... Whats wrong with having lighting on your keyboard I guess it does mean one thing ie your a poor typist that likes typing in dark rooms since you really should not be looking at your keys but thats me i guess Lol

But things like media keys and a macro capacity as well as wrist rests are generally useful and a nice addition to any keyboard imo!

Out of interest How much more noisy are the Cherry Browns over Topre keys? And are there any Cherry keyboards where when you bottom the key you hit rubber not plastic!


----------



## d3vour3r

just bought a razer black widow ultimate. soooo much better then my old rubber dome keyboard (razer lycosa). only drawback is the cheapish feel the cherry mx blues give to the spacebar, as due to the design of the switch, u can press the key down 2mm before actuation.


----------



## DaClownie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *d3vour3r*
> 
> just bought a razer black widow ultimate. soooo much better then my old rubber dome keyboard (razer lycosa). only drawback is the cheapish feel the cherry mx blues give to the spacebar, as due to the design of the switch, u can press the key down 2mm before actuation.


How is that a cheapish feel? On your old keyboard you needed to bottom the key out for it to register. If anything, it has a higher quality feel due to the fact that the key is activating a switch instead of requiring you to bang rocks together.


----------



## d3vour3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaClownie*
> 
> How is that a cheapish feel? On your old keyboard you needed to bottom the key out for it to register. If anything, it has a higher quality feel due to the fact that the key is activating a switch instead of requiring you to bang rocks together.


its hard to explain. it just feels loose. yes it feels 1000X better then my old keyboard but i am just getting used to it. it sounds a bit different to the rest of the keys, hasnt got as satifying of a click. the other keys have a little bit more resistance then then the sapce bar.


----------



## ripster

Check this mod. Commonly reported problem.

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/y3gk9/cheap_upgrade_to_your_razer_blackwidow_try/


----------



## RKTGX95

Hi, i am planning to buy my first Mech Keyboard and i wonder if you can help me choose between these three:

ThermalTake Meka G1

Zowie Gear CELERITAS (MX Red switches, not Brown)

Razer BlackWidow

i am gaming a lot but type too. (not as much as i game, but still would be needed) the price difference between these in my country isn't high (20$ max between the cheapest to the most expensive, just guess which is the most expensive...).

So which would you recommend to me the most? the Red? the Black? or the Blue?

(just don't want to make a separate thread about this little question)


----------



## Farih

See this:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/mechanical-switch-keyboard,2955-2.html

I got the red switches and for just typing it take's alot of getting used to, its very easy to make typo's with red switches.

But in gaming i loved them straight away, the feeling of the keys is just perfect for gaming i think.

If you want a good mix of typing and gaming i think the brown switches would be best for you.


----------



## RKTGX95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Farih*
> 
> See this:
> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/mechanical-switch-keyboard,2955-2.html
> I got the red switches and for just typing it take's alot of getting used to, its very easy to make typo's with red switches.
> But in gaming i loved them straight away, the feeling of the keys is just perfect for gaming i think.
> If you want a good mix of typing and gaming i think *the brown switches would be best for you*.


i knew that, the problem is the lack of them







(i.e. there isn't any keyboard available, that i'm aware of yet, that has brown switches in here)
my problem is to chose between Red and Black switches for my gaming needs and typing a little. (if i'll find a brown switches keyboard i'll buy ASAP)


----------



## DaClownie

I know in the USA Rosewill or WASDkeyboards with MX Browns are readily available. I love my brown switches


----------



## KipH

I have actually switched from Brown to Red. I do a lot more typing than gaming now and wife wont let me get Blue









They did take a bit of getting used to but not too long. They will feel fine in a day or 2 of normal use and you won't want to go back after a week or 2. I think they have helped correct my typing posture and have made me learn a bit more typing skill. I know I look at the keyboard a lot less now. I still make errors but that is more my fingers can now go faster then my muddles brain.

I have not tried a silence mod on the reds yet but: Silenced Brown feel like rubber so I suspect silenced red will feel more like Brown. Has anyone felt that? AmIright?


----------



## RKTGX95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> I have actually switched from Brown to Red. I do a lot more typing than gaming now and wife wont let me get Blue
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They did take a bit of getting used to but not too long. They will feel fine in a day or 2 of normal use and you won't want to go back after a week or 2. I think they have helped correct my typing posture and have made me learn a bit more typing skill. I know I look at the keyboard a lot less now. I still make errors but that is more my fingers can now go faster then my muddles brain.
> I have not tried a silence mod on the reds yet but: Silenced Brown feel like rubber so I suspect silenced red will feel more like Brown. Has anyone felt that? AmIright?


so you are recommending the red over the black switches?


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RKTGX95*
> 
> so you are recommending the red over the black switches?


AH, well. "Recommending" is a hard thing with switches. They are so personal. They make the boxer vs briefs war look like a small tiff.

I like the Reds much better myself and would say try them first if you have the option. And no mater what, any switch beats cheep rubber domes, so you can be happy with that.

But none of the boards you selected are on my short list of favorites. I would get a Rosewill, CM Quickfire or Ducky over any of them and WASD keyboards would be a first choice.
I don't know the Zowie, but It looks OK tool. It looks like a familiar and good OEM board. Even thought they use Anti-Ghosting not the proper NKRO. From the look on their web page it would be my choice of the 3.


----------



## DaClownie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *RKTGX95*
> 
> so you are recommending the red over the black switches?
> 
> 
> 
> AH, well. "Recommending" is a hard thing with switches. They are so personal. They make the boxer vs briefs war look like a small tiff.
> 
> I like the Reds much better myself and would say try them first if you have the option. And no mater what, any switch beats cheep rubber domes, so you can be happy with that.
> 
> But none of the boards you selected are on my short list of favorites. I would get a Rosewill, CM Quickfire or Ducky over any of them and WASD keyboards would be a first choice.
> I don't know the Zowie, but It looks OK tool. It looks like a familiar and good OEM board. Even thought they use Anti-Ghosting not the proper NKRO. From the look on their web page it would be my choice of the 3.
Click to expand...

Love my CM Quickfire... Got it with the MX Browns and it is just an absolute JOY to type on. It's also great for gaming, and I like it much more than my Blackwidow. That's not to say that the Blackwidow was a bad keyboard. My only gripe with the Blackwidow other than key lettering wearing off is the unusually sized spacebar (tough to swap out keys, more or less being forced to leave the spacebar stock in all its shiny goodness). Maybe I'll plasti dip my spacebar while I'm at it... but yea, other than that, it's all good with that keyboard from my personal experience.


----------



## Naweo

Is it possible that anyone here can help me getting a 1000hz cherry MX red keyboard for High-Apm Starcraft 2 gaming?

I really want it with left-side macros keys as well. 5x or something is fine.

I really want something that is similar to:

CM STORM trigger Cherry MX red
Corsair vengeance K90
Gigaybye Osmonium

However, The first menionted keyboard is not available in europe, and the 2 others doesnt quite fit my specifics.

Thank you.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naweo*
> 
> Is it possible that anyone here can help me getting a 1000hz cherry MX red keyboard for High-Apm Starcraft 2 gaming?
> I really want it with left-side macros keys as well. 5x or something is fine.
> Thank you.


Can you explain why you would need or want 1000 MHz? Nothing on a keyboard is measured in Hz.


----------



## DaClownie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Naweo*
> 
> Is it possible that anyone here can help me getting a 1000hz cherry MX red keyboard for High-Apm Starcraft 2 gaming?
> I really want it with left-side macros keys as well. 5x or something is fine.
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you explain why you would need or want 1000 MHz? Nothing on a keyboard is measured in Hz.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a Razer spec sheet


----------



## 4514kaiser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> I have actually switched from Brown to Red. I do a lot more typing than gaming now and wife wont let me get Blue
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They did take a bit of getting used to but not too long. They will feel fine in a day or 2 of normal use and you won't want to go back after a week or 2. I think they have helped correct my typing posture and have made me learn a bit more typing skill. I know I look at the keyboard a lot less now. I still make errors but that is more my fingers can now go faster then my muddles brain.
> I have not tried a silence mod on the reds yet but: Silenced Brown feel like rubber so I suspect silenced red will feel more like Brown. Has anyone felt that? AmIright?


How does this silence Mod work, Since the noise of mechanical keyboards have always been the prime issue which stops me from buying one id really like to check it out! Also since i'm used to using rubber dome keyboards i suspect a rubber feel to the board would be personally enjoy.


----------



## TheNephilim

There are some keyboards with Brown switches:

http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional-silent/
http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard-nighthawk-x8-blue-backlit-mechanical-keyboard.html

And some more, don't have time to search for them. I'm thinking about buying the latter one. It has backlit keys with Brown Cherry MX switches


----------



## DaClownie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4514kaiser*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> I have actually switched from Brown to Red. I do a lot more typing than gaming now and wife wont let me get Blue
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They did take a bit of getting used to but not too long. They will feel fine in a day or 2 of normal use and you won't want to go back after a week or 2. I think they have helped correct my typing posture and have made me learn a bit more typing skill. I know I look at the keyboard a lot less now. I still make errors but that is more my fingers can now go faster then my muddles brain.
> I have not tried a silence mod on the reds yet but: Silenced Brown feel like rubber so I suspect silenced red will feel more like Brown. Has anyone felt that? AmIright?
> 
> 
> 
> How does this silence Mod work, Since the noise of mechanical keyboards have always been the prime issue which stops me from buying one id really like to check it out! Also since i'm used to using rubber dome keyboards i suspect a rubber feel to the board would be personally enjoy.
Click to expand...

They're just little rubber o-rings you put around the key to decrease the distance it travels and also dampen the noise of the key bottoming out.

www.wasdkeyboards.com sells them.


----------



## 4514kaiser

TY they look great any good comparisons around the net between the 3 types? The 0.4 Soft one's look the deal... Now i just need to choose the Keys i want.... I'm having a hard time choosing between browns and red switches at first i was set on brown since i do 60/40 typing to gaming but then it occurred to me that since rubber dome keyboards don't have any tactile points i might prefer the red switches........ Blacks were tempting but I consider myself a light typist... but hey there's no force specs for my keyboard so its hard to tell!

What would you guys recommend?


----------



## DaClownie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4514kaiser*
> 
> TY they look great any good comparisons around the net between the 3 types? The 0.4 Soft one's look the deal... Now i just need to choose the Keys i want.... I'm having a hard time choosing between browns and red switches at first i was set on brown since i do 60/40 typing to gaming but then it occurred to me that since rubber dome keyboards don't have any tactile points i might prefer the red switches........ Blacks were tempting but I consider myself a light typist... but hey there's no force specs for my keyboard so its hard to tell!
> 
> What would you guys recommend?


You need to remember, if you're coming from a rubber dome, you're a semi heavy typist. Most rubber dome keyboards require about 50-60g of force to actuate, which puts them on par with anything but reds (45g I believe). The bump is a great feeling and I love it. It's actually made me a lighter typist as I don't bottom all the keys on it quite as often.

I started with blues. While they are a bit on the loud side for my taste, the feeling was amazing. Browns are the quiet version of the blues, and is a perfect medium if you ask me.


----------



## 4514kaiser

Cheers now the Question is which keyboard two get i'm currently thing MK-85 or Max Keyboard Nighthawk X8 with brown Cherry MX switches, i'm aware that they are essentially the same. I prefer the Max Keyboard Nighthawk X8 but wish i could have an MK-85 plastic wrist rest any one have any idea if there sold separably I guess the XArmor version would also work!

Any Other recommendations with Cherry brown switches would also be appreciated!


----------



## Naweo

Well I dont really know anything technically about it I just guess all mechaincal keyboards are pretty equal.

However I just want to know if there exist a CHERRY mx red mechanical keyboard with macro keys on left side in EU.


----------



## Alias

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4514kaiser*
> 
> Cheers now the Question is which keyboard two get i'm currently thing MK-85 or Max Keyboard Nighthawk X8 with brown Cherry MX switches, i'm aware that they are essentially the same. I prefer the Max Keyboard Nighthawk X8 but wish i could have an MK-85 plastic wrist rest any one have any idea if there sold separably I guess the XArmor version would also work!
> Any Other recommendations with Cherry brown switches would also be appreciated!


I got the Max keyboard Nighthawk X8 and it is a nice mechanical keyboard. The foam wrist pad is also something i preferred over the plastic wrist rest. Checking with the reviews for MK-85 i think you would not make a bad choice with either keyboard. The backlighting for the X8 is blue though.

Other recommendations with Cherry Brown switches and backlighting in this category would be the Ducky Shine (preferable to wait for the Ducky Shine 2 i guess) and the CM Storm Trigger.


----------



## Farih

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naweo*
> 
> Well I dont really know anything technically about it I just guess all mechaincal keyboards are pretty equal.
> However I just want to know if there exist a CHERRY mx red mechanical keyboard with macro keys on left side in EU.


Maybe your looking for the Corsair K90 ?

I use the K60 without macro's myself.

Very nice keyboards and i got one because they have put the switches on top of the aluminium plate instead of inside the keyboard.
This make's cleaning sooooo much easier. Not a big point for most but for a dirty dutchie like me its a HUGE plus


----------



## BluePhoenixHD

Should I posted here if I need help on choosing a Keyboard? If so, sorry, made a thread. Is it okay to post here then? This is it:

Planning on building a new system, so wanting a nice keyboard to go along with it. It does not have to have back lighting or extra macro keys. Will be gaming with this keyboard. FPS / MMO-RPG's / ETC.

What I really would like is one with Media Keys some way incorporated.

Full Size if it would help. For example they make Tenkeyless right?

Any Key rollover is helpful as well. 6-Key Roll Over N-Key Roll Over or some Anti-Ghosting thing.

Here are some I was considering:

CM Storm QuickFire Rapid - Does not have the number pad, supposed to be the same OEM as Filco? The Brown Switch one is having problems it seems.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823129005

Zowie Celeritas - Worried about using it when I first build my computer, like detecting it at Bios, etc.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823826001

CM Storm Quick Fire Pro - Really worried about build quality.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823129003

Razer BlackWidow 2013 - Build Quality / Fade on Buttons / Finger Print Magnet.
http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.253281500

Blah, should I just go with a Rubber Dome keyboard? Need help either way!


----------



## DaClownie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BluePhoenixHD*
> 
> Should I posted here if I need help on choosing a Keyboard? If so, sorry, made a thread. Is it okay to post here then? This is it:
> 
> Planning on building a new system, so wanting a nice keyboard to go along with it. It does not have to have back lighting or extra macro keys. Will be gaming with this keyboard. FPS / MMO-RPG's / ETC.
> 
> What I really would like is one with Media Keys some way incorporated.
> 
> Full Size if it would help. For example they make Tenkeyless right?
> 
> Any Key rollover is helpful as well. 6-Key Roll Over N-Key Roll Over or some Anti-Ghosting thing.
> 
> Here are some I was considering:
> 
> CM Storm QuickFire Rapid - Does not have the number pad, supposed to be the same OEM as Filco? *The Brown Switch one is having problems it seems.*
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823129005
> 
> Zowie Celeritas - Worried about using it when I first build my computer, like detecting it at Bios, etc.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823826001
> 
> CM Storm Quick Fire Pro - Really worried about build quality.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823129003
> 
> Razer BlackWidow 2013 - Build Quality / Fade on Buttons / Finger Print Magnet.
> http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.253281500
> 
> Blah, should I just go with a Rubber Dome keyboard? Need help either way!


What is this problem with the Cherry MX Brown switches that you speak of? I have this keyboard and it's phenomenal. Only rubber dome keyboard you should consider is a 1999 Dell Quietkey. Now that's a nice rubber dome. Otherwise, mechanical is the way to go


----------



## 4514kaiser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alias*
> 
> I got the Max keyboard Nighthawk X8 and it is a nice mechanical keyboard. The foam wrist pad is also something i preferred over the plastic wrist rest. Checking with the reviews for MK-85 i think you would not make a bad choice with either keyboard. The backlighting for the X8 is blue though.
> Other recommendations with Cherry Brown switches and backlighting in this category would be the Ducky Shine (preferable to wait for the Ducky Shine 2 i guess) and the CM Storm Trigger.


Cheers for the recommendations I'v seen them before but neither caught my eye. CM is one of the few companies that I refuse to buy products from and while Ducky look nice they lack to many of the features i was hoping to get with the keyboard.

Out of interest does The MK-85 macro software work with your keyboard (Nighthawk X8).. Link

Having a hard time deciding Cheers for the help


----------



## BluePhoenixHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaClownie*
> 
> What is this problem with the Cherry MX Brown switches that you speak of? I have this keyboard and it's phenomenal. Only rubber dome keyboard you should consider is a 1999 Dell Quietkey. Now that's a nice rubber dome. Otherwise, mechanical is the way to go


I have been checking out reviews and a lot of them has gotten DOA's, or getting random errors. I am not saying the MX Brown switch is bad anyway, kind of hoping to find a good MX Brown keyboard.


----------



## Hdusu64346

Is the threadstarter missing?


----------



## KipH

waar has taken over the ownership. The OP is around but taking a well deserved break from active service. We thank him for all his work.
There is also the club that has taken over the more day to day info on this subject here: http://www.overclock.net/t/538389/mechanical-keyboard-club/0_100

And you are free to make posts on specific questions like what board to buy.

And to answer that: CM is a good bet for simple board. The Quick Fire is my board of choice now. I have a Red and a Brown. The one to avoid imho is Razor. But opinions differ.

The Nighthawk X8 is one that looks nice and I want to try. I am hoping for a Ducky II soon! And the wasd is the one of you need choices.

Pick a switch and go from there. You will be happy with any of them if all you know now is rubber.


----------



## BluePhoenixHD

Thanks Kip69.

Should I worry about DOA's or anything like that? Or using them in BIOS, just booting up and installing Windows? The Nighthawk looks beautiful.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> waar has taken over the ownership. The OP is around but taking a well deserved break from active service. We thank him for all his work.


Waar has taken over the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide?

I wish him luck, he needs it! This thing is hopelessly out of date but at least you don't have the Geekhack Mechanical Keyboard Guide to worry about.

That Mkawa guy must be ESL.

http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=Mechanical_Keyboards


----------



## Zibri

I wonder what is the switch more similar in feel, sound and force to the buckling spring of a Model M. (if any)


----------



## ripster

That's easy.

None.


----------



## 3930K

Who was the old OP?


----------



## ripster

Manyak. But he mainly stole my content.

http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mechanical-keyboard-guide/8930#post_10999433

Unfortunately Geekhack's guide is now a joke after mine got R00TW0RMed.

http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=Mechanical_Keyboards


----------



## Zibri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster*
> 
> That's easy.
> None.


As I thought.


----------



## Zibri

So if you would have to write a top 3 chart of switches (durability+precision+fleel+clicky sound) we hathe the buckilg spring of the Model M I'm writing you with at the first place... how about the second and third places?


----------



## ripster

Like I've said before I don't recommend specific switches or keyboards. Pisses people off.


----------



## 0CALEFACTION0

Finally caved and bought a CoolerMaster CM Storm QuickFire Rapid with Cherry MX Browns. I absolutely love typing on the thing.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zibri*
> 
> So if you would have to write a top 3 chart of switches (durability+precision+fleel+clicky sound) we hathe the buckilg spring of the Model M I'm writing you with at the first place... how about the second and third places?


Why not get a Model M if you like them. They are good and can be found cheap if you search and dont mind cleaning them.

If not I suggest you try : Blue, Topre then some high end scissor switches. I say TRY because the switch is a very personal thing. Some people love one even thought it is not the usual type for their style. There are a lot of choices right now and if you are willing to give them some time and actually spend a bit of effort learning to type they should all be wonderful for you. Its like picking the best candy. They are all good and even the best is better than not having candy.


----------



## DaClownie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zibri*
> 
> So if you would have to write a top 3 chart of switches (durability+precision+fleel+clicky sound) we hathe the buckilg spring of the Model M I'm writing you with at the first place... how about the second and third places?
> 
> 
> 
> Why not get a Model M if you like them. They are good and can be found cheap if you search and dont mind cleaning them.
> 
> If not I suggest you try : Blue, Topre then some high end scissor switches. I say TRY because the switch is a very personal thing. Some people love one even thought it is not the usual type for their style. There are a lot of choices right now and if you are willing to give them some time and actually spend a bit of effort learning to type they should all be wonderful for you. Its like picking the best candy. They are all good and even the best is better than not having candy.
Click to expand...

I wish there was some way to try a Topre before buying it... those 87U keyboards are crazy money if you aren't sure that you'll like it. I know you can resell it for near no loss and all, but still.


----------



## Aeloi

@DaClownie I much prefer my 87u over my Quickfire with Blues. I was pretty hesitant on ordering the 87u, but i don't regret it one bit now.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aeloi*
> 
> @DaClownie I much prefer my 87u over my Quickfire with Blues. I was pretty hesitant on ordering the 87u, but i don't regret it one bit now.


To offer a counterpoint, I preferred every MX switch over Topre and sold my 87U as soon as I could.


----------



## Naweo

Is it true that keyboards doesnt operate on HZ frequensies 125hz and 1000 hz?

Im looking for a mini-size keyboard with cherry MX switches. Any good suggestions? Shipped to Denmark.


----------



## Zibri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Why not get a Model M if you like them. They are good and can be found cheap if you search and dont mind cleaning them.
> If not I suggest you try : Blue, Topre then some high end scissor switches. I say TRY because the switch is a very personal thing. Some people love one even thought it is not the usual type for their style. There are a lot of choices right now and if you are willing to give them some time and actually spend a bit of effort learning to type they should all be wonderful for you. Its like picking the best candy. They are all good and even the best is better than not having candy.


I have two of them (and I'm writing with one of them as you can read in my 'main rig'). I was just curious.
Unfortunately most of the shops in Italy don't have any mechanical keyboards to try the switches myself.
That's why I asked.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naweo*
> 
> Is it true that keyboards doesnt operate on HZ frequensies 125hz and 1000 hz?
> Im looking for a mini-size keyboard with cherry MX switches. Any good suggestions? Shipped to Denmark.


PS/2 interface is interrupt based, USB is polling based with an interval that depends on the controller.


----------



## ripster

PS/2 is obsolete is what it is.


----------



## elreyhorus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naweo*
> 
> Is it true that keyboards doesnt operate on HZ frequensies 125hz and 1000 hz?
> Im looking for a mini-size keyboard with cherry MX switches. Any good suggestions? Shipped to Denmark.


mini-size keyboard? you will probably want a tenkeyless keyboard (no number pad).


----------



## elreyhorus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster*
> 
> PS/2 is obsolete is what it is.


PS/2 has full n-key rollover unlike USB.


----------



## ripster

Two handed games are obsolete too.


----------



## elreyhorus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster*
> 
> Two handed games are obsolete too.


Gaming has come a long way since those days. But seriously, there are people who use full n-key rollover. For what? I'm not exactly sure.


----------



## KipH

Don't get Rip started on USB vs other. Or you will RIP ha. We been over that all before. USB is better but PS2 is good if you have it. I would not use either of them to pick a board, both are OK. That said, make sure your new and next mobo has a PS2 port









Frequency on a keyboard is all marketing hype. You don't hit 1000 keys a microsecond so faster poling wont work. And how long do you think it takes you to push a key all the way down? 100 years in komputer time. It is much more important how the mobo deals with information than how fast it transfers it to the computer. The network between the chair and computer is always much slower.

Last: If you really like model M... but want smaller. I would suggest a CM Quickfire in blue, brown or red (in that order) or a Microsoft X4. Or similar type. Or what was that Lenovo laptop like one? But that has short travel so you may not like it.


----------



## ripster

If USB is better why hasn't the new editor Waar changed the OP?

He seems to spend all his time at Geekhack with Reaper.


----------



## 4514kaiser

Out of interest does any one know if the wrist pad on the Nighthawk X8 can be physically attached to the keyboard?


----------



## xentrox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4514kaiser*
> 
> Out of interest does any one know if the wrist pad on the Nighthawk X8 can be physically attached to the keyboard?


I'm assuming it is detachable simply due to the fact that they are pretty much identical with the QPAD MK-80/MK-85, which are detachable.


----------



## 4514kaiser

Na it has a foam wrist pad unlike Qpads versions, could not figure out if it was some how attached or not, irritatingly enough no one seems to sell Mk-80/MK-85 or Armor keyboard plastic wrist pad separably I've always used just a plastic wrist pad and the thought of change is not appealing to me lol


----------



## EnJoY

I just purchased an X-Armor U9 off of Newegg. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823330017

I hooked it up last night and today I tested NKRO. Here are my results:

HE QUIC BROWN OX UMP OVER HE Z OG

Clearly, it is not working as advertised.

The board is connected via USB->PS2 adapter to an ASUS Rampage IV Extreme motherboard. Why isn't NRKO working?


----------



## ripster

ROFL!

Because it is not NKRO!

From the unfortunately R00TW0RMed Geekhack NKRO Wiki:
Quote:


> Xarmor U9 - 2KRO - Fails WRV (source)


----------



## EnJoY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster*
> 
> ROFL!
> Because it is not NKRO!
> From the unfortunately R00TW0RMed Geekhack NKRO Wiki:










This makes me sad. 2KRO kinda sucks.

Otherwise the keyboard is fantastic though. The keys feel amazing and the build quality is excellent. Can't really scoff at it for $75.


----------



## mironccr345

I found an old Dell QuietKey keyboard in my garage. I was going to throw it away, until I noticed the weight of the keyboard. So I tested out the keys felt like a mech. keyboard. I popped the keys out and it looks like an older version of white Alps switch. But I'm no expert on mechanical keyboards, but I do know one thing, it feels so much better than my keyboards. Maybe someone in this thread can shed some light on this?


----------



## DaClownie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mironccr345*
> 
> I found an old Dell QuietKey keyboard in my garage. I was going to throw it away, until I noticed the weight of the keyboard. So I tested out the keys felt like a mech. keyboard. I popped the keys out and it looks like an older version of white Alps switch. But I'm no expert on mechanical keyboards, but I do know one thing, it feels so much better than my keyboards. Maybe someone in this thread can shed some light on this?


Pretty sure the old Dell Quietkeys are not mechanicals, but in fact a rubber dome with a plunger. They're some of the finest feeling rubber domes out, and it's certainly not a bad keyboard because it's rubber dome. My cousin uses a Quietkey from 1999 he bought new back then and it still works and types like a dream.


----------



## ripster

NMB made rubber domes.


----------



## mironccr345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaClownie*
> 
> Pretty sure the old Dell Quietkeys are not mechanicals, but in fact a rubber dome with a plunger. They're some of the finest feeling rubber domes out, and it's certainly not a bad keyboard because it's rubber dome. My cousin uses a Quietkey from 1999 he bought new back then and it still works and types like a dream.


Thanks for the input. It definitely feels better than all the keyboards I have in my house and work! Also, I've done some research that their are diff. Types of White Apls Switches that are tactile non-clicky/semi-clicky than others. I guess I'll have to dig around Google and see what I come up with.


----------



## Sevada88

Does anyone use the Corsair K90 for first person shooters? I know the K60 is more for FPSs but does the K90 work well for FPSs as well?


----------



## 4514kaiser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> Does anyone use the Corsair K90 for first person shooters? I know the K60 is more for FPSs but does the K90 work well for FPSs as well?


There both keyboards of a decent construction, they both have the standard keys and have the same switchers........ There going to be pretty much the same for FPS games lol......... That said i'v never used a keyboard that did work well for FPS games mech or rubber dome.........


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4514kaiser*
> 
> There both keyboards of a decent construction, they both have the standard keys and have the same switchers........ There going to be pretty much the same for FPS games lol......... That said i'v never used a keyboard that did work well for FPS games mech or rubber dome.........


So basically the only difference is the addition of the G keys on the left and backlight. Other than that they are pretty much the same.


----------



## Secretninja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *elreyhorus*
> 
> Gaming has come a long way since those days. But seriously, there are people who use full n-key rollover. For what? I'm not exactly sure.


Jamestown, the shmup, supports multiple players on 1 keyboard. Emulators do as well. There is a need for nkro, but if you have it you probably already know about it. I am hoping my model m will last at least as long as I do, so I won't have to do anymore keyboard shopping (once I find another for cheap for my work computer). It is 2 years newer than me, after all.


----------



## Sevada88

I decided to go with the Vengeance K90. I like it, it's very nice. Very well built. There is a problem though, the L key is not working...well, I have to press down on it with a lot of force for it to register.

I do know that Corsair has an excellent tech department but what do you guys think, shoud I RMA via Corsair or the retailer?


----------



## DaClownie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> I decided to go with the Vengeance K90. I like it, it's very nice. Very well built. There is a problem though, the L key is not working...well, I have to press down on it with a lot of force for it to register.
> 
> I do know that Corsair has an excellent tech department but what do you guys think, shoud I RMA via Corsair or the retailer?


If you just bought it, the initial returns should be handled by the retailer. As long as you got it from a reputable retailer, should be no problem doing an exchange.


----------



## TheNephilim

Damn, just got back from vacation and was hoping to get myself a nice Max Keyboard Nighthawk X8 with brown switches. But they're out of stock...

I'm so lucky


----------



## KoSoVaR^

Is there any Cherry MX Red Flat keyboards ?


----------



## Sevada88

My K90 is slightly different from most other K90s...

What is this strange key doing next to the Shift key?










EDIT: I just learned that this is the UK layout, I should have gone for the US layout instead.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> My K90 is slightly different from most other K90s...
> What is this strange key doing next to the Shift key?
> 
> EDIT: I just learned that this is the UK layout, I should have gone for the US layout instead.


If that is the only difference, looks like time for Auto-hotkey. Turn it into something else. But remember to spell words with a u, like "colour" and "neighbour".


----------



## Sevada88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> If that is the only difference, looks like time for Auto-hotkey. Turn it into something else. But remember to spell words with a u, like "colour" and "neighbour".


Nah, I am sending it back and getting the US version.


----------



## ripster

The Corsair isn't even IN the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide.
Quote:


> Pictures of Keycaps thanks to Ripster on OCN & Geekhack


This needs changing too. I only post at Geekhack occasionally using a sockpuppet.


----------



## Rognin

Help out a newb.

My Saitek Cyborg is gonna go to my girlfriend (she likes the red back lighting) because she spilt a pint of beer on her current one. I have an idea as to how the switches work (blue, red, black, brown etc). I need a suggestion on what is considered a very good gaming keyboard. Budget isn't much of an issue, though I won't spend 500$ on one (max 250).

Any suggestions?


----------



## Sevada88

I don't think "one size fits all" is applicable here...It all comes down to personal preference. The best to do is go to a shop and try it out for yourself.


----------



## raisinbun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rognin*
> 
> Help out a newb.
> My Saitek Cyborg is gonna go to my girlfriend (she likes the red back lighting) because she spilt a pint of beer on her current one. I have an idea as to how the switches work (blue, red, black, brown etc). I need a suggestion on what is considered a very good gaming keyboard. Budget isn't much of an issue, though I won't spend 500$ on one (max 250).
> Any suggestions?


I agree that there is no "best" keyboard. It all depends on your needs.

Which cherry MX switch, what form factor (full size, tenkeyless, or smaller), and what features do you require?

In terms of build quality, Filco is probably best, while Corsair K90 and Gigabyte Osmium have better multimedia controls and are backlit. There are certainly many more choices out there. There are many more viable choices depending on your prefernces.


----------



## Rognin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sevada88*
> 
> I don't think "one size fits all" is applicable here...It all comes down to personal preference. The best to do is go to a shop and try it out for yourself.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisinbun*
> 
> I agree that there is no "best" keyboard. It all depends on your needs.
> Which cherry MX switch, what form factor (full size, tenkeyless, or smaller), and what features do you require?
> In terms of build quality, Filco is probably best, while Corsair K90 and Gigabyte Osmium have better multimedia controls and are backlit. There are certainly many more choices out there. There are many more viable choices depending on your prefernces.


I was looking at a Deck MXclear last night, then fell on the new Ducky2... I think I'm gonna wait. =P

Thanks guys!


----------



## Paradigm84

Got my first mechanical keyboard yesterday, trying to go back and type on my G19 feels like typing with gloves on.

Or as I tried to explain to my friends (who didn't understand how a keyboard could cost so much) rubber domes feel like jumping on a trampoline, mechanical keys feel like jumping on a pogo stick, you're still jumping, but you don't have the squishy feeling of the trampoline.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Got my first mechanical keyboard yesterday, trying to go back and type on my G19 feels like typing with gloves on.
> Or as I tried to explain to my friends (who didn't understand how a keyboard could cost so much) rubber domes feel like jumping on a trampoline, mechanical keys feel like jumping on a pogo stick, you're still jumping, but you don't have the squishy feeling of the trampoline.


After using a mechanical keyboard, rubber dome feels like jumping in a sandbox.


----------



## ripster

Here's a more up to date guide than the OP.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/zgo0n/a_basic_guide_to_mechanical_keyboards_in_respect/


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster*
> 
> Here's a more up to date guide than the OP.
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/zgo0n/a_basic_guide_to_mechanical_keyboards_in_respect/


Good list of keyboards. Why not add links to where you can get them. Also, you forgot the "guide" part of the guide, like where you say USB is not as good as PS2 for getting NKRO.
But I like the pictures. Can I use them


----------



## ripster

Most people these days can google plenty of shops to buy mechanical keyboards.

Except half the keyboards in the OP because they are obsolete.


----------



## FlashFir

Are there any small formfactor keyboards that are

HackingHappy size
Cherry Blues/Browns
Budget ~$100 or under? Could go $150, just $200 seems a bit much.
Have a friend looking for one, he has a happyhacking one but he's telling me he would really like one with switches.


----------



## ripster

ANOTHER keyboard not in the OP.

http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/search.php?switch_id=ALL&size=Other&keyword=poker

Or the one I bought. Although I got reds and a aluminum case.


http://imgur.com/a


----------



## linkdiablo

I'm about to pull the trigger on a mechanical keyboard and I'm torn between two options:
DAS Ultimate Silent versus Corsair K60/K90

I mostly want to code gaming is a secondary need.
I'm torn between the Corsair bodies and the DAS key caps and brown switches. The glossy body bothers me on the DAS but so does the red switches one the Corsair and a possible disliking of the rubber dome of the K90 if I end up swingning that way.

What would be my ideal keyboard, and I wouldn't mind putting the money to get it (if it is not overcomplicated), is a Corsair with swapped out switches and keys (I use a single macro key mapped to push to talk in Mumble on my G15). If my Frankenstein ideal is unreasonnable, I would probably settle for the DAS or a similarly featured matte keyboard.

What do you guys think?


----------



## FlashFir

Quote:


> I mostly want to code gaming is a secondary need.


read this, das silent. i have one, love it.


----------



## linkdiablo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> read this, das silent. i have one, love it.


I read people are annoyed by the glossy body (fingerprints, dust) and the sand their keyboard to remedy their issues.


----------



## Fortunex

I don't mind the glossy body of my Das, mainly because my keyboard is there to be typed on, not to look pretty (that, and I never look at it anyways, lol).


----------



## mironccr345

Wrong Thread.


----------



## FlashFir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkdiablo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> read this, das silent. i have one, love it.
> 
> 
> 
> I read people are annoyed by the glossy body (fingerprints, dust) and the sand their keyboard to remedy their issues.
Click to expand...

Well how about you're reading now that we love it. Annoyed by glossy body? And having an awesome keyboard? WHAT? Totally worth it still.








Haha, I'm not trying to be annoying, just wanting to give you a little context. Go for it! The ultimate models are going on sale right now for the same price as the laser etched ones!

it honestly doesn't matter.


----------



## KipH

Let me put this box here. Feel free to drool:


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Let me put this box here. Feel free to drool:


Giveaway?









Now I get why people have so many keyboards, I've had my Filco for a week or two now and I'm already looking at others.


----------



## Yahar

This is mostly a mechanical keyboard guide so I'm unsure whether it actually covers "Topre Switches", but I have a few questions regarding them:

Does anyone have idea of what is the actuation point in topre switches? Op says the key travel is 4mm so does that mean actuation = bottom out?

Also anyone have idea how much boucing delay in topre switches/ boards?

Thank you!


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yahar*
> 
> This is mostly a mechanical keyboard guide so I'm unsure whether it actually covers "Topre Switches", but I have a few questions regarding them:
> Does anyone have idea of what is the actuation point in topre switches? Op says the key travel is 4mm so does that mean actuation = bottom out?
> Also anyone have idea how much boucing delay in topre switches/ boards?
> Thank you!


With Topre switches key travel is 4mm but actuation is at 2mm. However, unlike a Cherry MX switch, it's almost impossible to not bottom out with Topre. If you look at the force curve, you'll see that they require a significant amount of force prior to actuation but beyond that point they will collapse with almost no force. The force curve is very much like that of any other rubber dome, so you can check with one of those how easy it is to not bottom after reaching the halfway point.


----------



## ripster

Here is a better mechanical keyboard guide that fully covers Topre:


----------



## zulk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Let me put this box here. Feel free to drool:


Drool ? I just jizzed all over my pants. XD


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster*
> 
> Here is a better mechanical keyboard guide that fully covers Topre:


You are right sir, much better. I have not seen so many "This picture is currently not available" in a long time. Or so many mentions of this thread. This thread is the best, I love it so much! I will refrain from posting cat gif.


----------



## ripster

?

http://web.archive.org/web/20101105192328/http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Topre+Realforce+Reference+-+all+things+topre

What are your thoughts on this one:

http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=Mechanical_Keyboards

I have to say the Topre Wiki at Geekhack needs work.

http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=Other_Switches


----------



## MattyMatt

I just wanted to post, now that I am registered here, and say thank you for this thread. A few years back it convinced me to make that leap of faith and I've tried a few switch types. I think I like browns the best as my most used keyboard and I dislike Alps, though I cannot put my finger on why. Mostly bought cheaper ones to try switch types. Going to be buying a new Filco, probably with the below the key print, if that makes sense. That or maybe the yellow or blue NCIX has available. With numpad of course.

This thread is legendary. I have been sending people with questions here for years and you are constantly in the top five on google. You used to be number one, but then they got dumb, and now it's garbage, garbage, then this thread.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattyMatt*
> 
> You used to be number one, but then they got dumb, and now it's garbage, garbage, then this thread.


Top of the 2nd Page for me in Google search for "Mechanical Keyboard". The Geekhack Mechanical Keyboard Guide I wrote is nowhere to be found.

At LEAST I'm featured here in the credits and on the third Google result:

http://www.daskeyboard.com/blog/?page_id=1458
Quote:


> Photo Credits:
> 
> Pictures of Keycaps and Cherry MX switch thanks to Ripster on OCN & Geekhack
> Key cutaways thanks to Signature Plastics
> Special thanks to Lethal Squirrel from Geekhack.org for the animated Cherry MX images.


I hope to rectify this once the Reddit Wiki goes live.


----------



## MattyMatt

Stupid google with personal results. Number three for me.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattyMatt*
> 
> Stupid google with personal results. Number three for me.


'
Are you searching for just mechanical keyboard, as opposed to "mechanical keyboard guide?


----------



## ripster

For that I get

1. OCN
2. Das
3. Geekhack.
4. WASD

The Geekhack Wiki only has 2K views though.

Lol.

My wiki will be the best though.

NSFW two clicks down.

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/106z2s/reddit_wiki_rollout_update_any_day_now/


----------



## ranseed

Note: On Filcos, use water instead of Alcohol. Filcos have a special coating on them that gets ruined if you use it.

Does this apply to leopold keyboards?


----------



## ripster

No. In fact some Filcos don't have that UV coating.

In any case I use Simple Green to be safe.

The OP should be updated with that info. Oh wait, it says it already.


----------



## piskooooo

I've been using browns for a little over 3 years now, but they're starting to just not feel "right" anymore. Would switching to reds be the right thing to do?


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *piskooooo*
> 
> I've been using browns for a little over 3 years now, but they're starting to just not feel "right" anymore. Would switching to reds be the right thing to do?


Depends on what you mean by "not right", do they feel too heavy?


----------



## piskooooo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Depends on what you mean by "not right", do they feel too heavy?


A bit yeah, I just feel like I'm putting too much effort into my key presses, especially when gaming. I don't have the problem of accidentally hitting keys either.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *piskooooo*
> 
> A bit yeah, I just feel like I'm putting too much effort into my key presses, especially when gaming. I don't have the problem of accidentally hitting keys either.


Yeah Red's would probably be the best idea then.


----------



## piskooooo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Yeah Red's would probably be the best idea then.


Thanks!


----------



## Singledigit

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Matias-Mechanical-Keyboard-Quiet-Peripherals,17790.html#xtor=RSS-998


----------



## Singledigit

Already making a Xmas list and this is my number one item atm

http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard-nighthawk-x8-blue-backlit-mechanical-keyboard.html

Seems like an awesome keyboard. I have not ever used mechanical keyboard other than 30 seconds on my friends steelseries (not sure which one). It seemed a bit hard to press down. I feel as if Cherry browns would suite me best cause I like typing alot and want the tactile feel to the switch. What do you guys think? Anyone ever try this keyboard out?


----------



## mironccr345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Singledigit*
> 
> Already making a Xmas list and this is my number one item atm
> http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard-nighthawk-x8-blue-backlit-mechanical-keyboard.html
> Seems like an awesome keyboard. I have not ever used mechanical keyboard other than 30 seconds on my friends steelseries (not sure which one). It seemed a bit hard to press down. I feel as if Cherry browns would suite me best cause I like typing alot and want the tactile feel to the switch. What do you guys think? Anyone ever try this keyboard out?


Im still very new to the mechanical keyboard scene, but I like that keyboard. I like how it's backlit and it has a simple look. I can see myself picking one of those up for x-mas.


----------



## 4514kaiser

Just got the Nighthawk x8 nice keyboard just wondering if anyone sell broader wrist rests I find that the rest rest is a bit small for my liking any ideas??


----------



## gcruz

Thanks for the tips here. I just received my Matias Tactile Pro 4 with White Alps switches, I've uploaded my video here:


----------



## mironccr345

Anyone here using a wrist rest for TKL boards?


----------



## 4514kaiser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mironccr345*
> 
> Anyone here using a wrist rest for TKL boards?


Any idea where you can buy them? sort of wanted one myself!


----------



## mironccr345

Also, got a new keyboard to replace my Logitech G110.



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gcruz*
> 
> Thanks for the tips here. I just received my Matias Tactile Pro 4 with White Alps switches, I've uploaded my video here:


Just saw this vid. I love those white switches. Im using Black Alps in the Dell AT101W at work and that Pro 4 sounds like it would be so nice to type on.


----------



## gcruz

You should get one!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mironccr345*
> 
> Also, got a new keyboard to replace my Logitech G110.
> 
> 
> Just saw this vid. I love those white switches. Im using Black Alps in the Dell AT101W at work and that Pro 4 sounds like it would be so nice to type on.


----------



## ripster

I wonder if Coolermaster is ever going to bother to get a WHQL certified WIN key.

DOUBLE WINning!
[/insert tired Charlie Sheen meme]


----------



## TheNephilim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Singledigit*
> 
> Already making a Xmas list and this is my number one item atm
> http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard-nighthawk-x8-blue-backlit-mechanical-keyboard.html
> Seems like an awesome keyboard. I have not ever used mechanical keyboard other than 30 seconds on my friends steelseries (not sure which one). It seemed a bit hard to press down. I feel as if Cherry browns would suite me best cause I like typing alot and want the tactile feel to the switch. What do you guys think? Anyone ever try this keyboard out?


I'm waiting for new suply of that keyboard. Waiting for it for quite a while now, but I think it will be worth the wait. It looks very clean indeed and the lighting is awsome. They should be back in stock half October XD


----------



## 4514kaiser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheNephilim*
> 
> I'm waiting for new suply of that keyboard. Waiting for it for quite a while now, but I think it will be worth the wait. It looks very clean indeed and the lighting is awsome. They should be back in stock half October XD


You can still get them in Australia if you live there from Pccasegear. Nice Keyboard wrist rest is a bit small though...

Anyone have any idea where I can get a nice quality wide wrist rest at a reasonable price??


----------



## Zibri

You should all try the buckling spring mechanism of an IBM Model "M"... It's unbeatable!


----------



## piskooooo

Got my new keyboard with reds today (Filco Majestouch 2, white), feels amazing!


----------



## HowHardCanItBe

I was lurking [H] and saw this.









http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1039192927

They seem to be similar to the blue switches but stiffer... Might be those wanting to consider getting the ducky DK9008 G2pro.


----------



## ripster

Yep, stiffer. 80g to be precise.



http://imgur.com/a


----------



## Tator Tot

Greens are pretty hard to come by in large quantities.

They are normally used in the Spacebar. Since your thumb usually hits with more force than any other finger.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *5entinel*
> 
> I was lurking [H] and saw this.
> *snip*
> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1039192927
> They seem to be similar to the blue switches but stiffer... Might be those wanting to consider getting the ducky DK9008 G2pro.


Wow...I've only heard of people doing a ghetto mod to get green-like switches by using blue switches but replacing the springs with ones from Cherry MX black switches, hence the name "ghetto greens".


----------



## Paradigm84

If anyone hasn't joined the club yet then here's the link:

http://www.overclock.net/t/538389/mechanical-keyboard-club

I also want some more data about your switches so we can get some useful pie-charts made.


----------



## Figit090

Hey all, I posted in the club but just found this thread and thought maybe someone could tell me what kind of alps switch I have? I opened it up so you can see inside, here's the post: http://www.overclock.net/t/538389/mechanical-keyboard-club/9590#post_18354548

These are in a Datadesk Trackboard, and look to be the cream colored, not quite white. I'm mostly wondering if they are indeed ALPS and if so, complicated/simple...etc...


----------



## magna224

Its a simplified ALPS switch.


----------



## ripster

ALPS simplified Type II (XM) White Clickies to be precise. 70g peak force.

Feels like a Tinkertoy design.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/11ezoe/keyboard_kwiz_help_deskthoritynet_out_by/


----------



## Figit090

That's a somewhat bad thing, comparatively, right? What'a complicated one look like inside?

Not sure what tinkertoy is referring to. Also the contacts of the actual switch didn't fall over when I opened the switch, that's because they're soldered to the board, correct? thanks for the help! I still like these switches but I have a feeling I'd like other switches more, these feel a tad bit vague and i screw up a bit too often using them, as if they are just a few grams too hard to push. when i'm really into it I type like mad but I can't be lazy with them.


----------



## r3skyline

Figured I would post here really quick. Looking for an excellent build quality mechanical keyboard. Will be used on my gaming pc (although i dont game as much as i used to). So it will see some moderate gaming usage but mostly just cruisin the deepweb and such.









Any suggestions?







(price range is from 80-130USD)


----------



## ripster

Have you looked at the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide?

Many of them are STILL for sale.


----------



## duox

where can front (side) printed keycaps for my quickfire rapid, the laser etching on this keyboard is terrible and they are all fading with less than a month of use, S key is completely faded. So I need to get some side printed caps.


----------



## SolidSnakeUS

Is this worth it at this price?

http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=71928&vpn=SGK-6000-GKCM1-US&manufacture=COOLERMASTER


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SolidSnakeUS*
> 
> Is this worth it at this price?
> http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=71928&vpn=SGK-6000-GKCM1-US&manufacture=COOLERMASTER


Looks good at that price, but did you see the Corsair on sale?
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=64130&vpn=CH-9000004-NA&manufacture=Corsair&promoid=1295


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SolidSnakeUS*
> 
> Is this worth it at this price?
> http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=71928&vpn=SGK-6000-GKCM1-US&manufacture=COOLERMASTER


Yep, and I would get it over the Corsair that Kip listed.

They're both good boards, but the Cooler Master has more features. It also is fully mechanical vs Corsair's partially mechanical approach.


----------



## Singledigit

Anyone heard about this board?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Key-Cool-84-Back-light-Mechanical-Gaming-keyboard-Cherry-MX-switches-W-Blue-LED-/300767276724

I particularly dont like how its rounded off edges of the board, but I love its small form factor, especially how the F1-F12 keys are right above the number keys, make it alot easier for making macro's for an MMO game (a lot like the Noppoo choc mini keyboards).

or how are the Vortex KBT Race keyboards?

I cant find the Vortext KBT with Blue LED backlit, with MX browns, The Key Cool 84 with Browns seems to be out of stock.


----------



## BeastRider

Everyone, browns or blacks for MMO (WASD+quick typing)/FPS (WASD) gaming? Browns are soooo hard to find here. Lots of blacks and blues, but I hear brown is the best for my use..I do type hard though, people say I'm gonna break the keyboard when I type, so thinking of going black. I type mostly on laptops and notice I type faster on them than I do with standard desktop keyboards.

I know this has probably been asked hundreds of times but bear with me please.


----------



## SolidSnakeUS

Just for the sake of being curious, how good are the Deck MX Clear keyboards? That's if anyone has ever used one.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SolidSnakeUS*
> 
> Just for the sake of being curious, how good are the Deck MX Clear keyboards? That's if anyone has ever used one.


In terms of feel & build quality, very good.

In terms of price; not so much.

I love my Deck and the Clears are my favorite switch; but man was that expensive.


----------



## bengal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SolidSnakeUS*
> 
> Is this worth it at this price?
> http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=71928&vpn=SGK-6000-GKCM1-US&manufacture=COOLERMASTER


Wow that's an amazing price for that keyboard. I am a Brown switch guy and have been drooling over it for a while. Might just pull the trigger because of that price. It's $120 on Newegg.


----------



## BeastRider

Went with the black and I must say I am making a lot of typing errors. It feels A LOT better to press than any keyboard I've used (basically laptop and standard desktop). Hopefully when I get the hang of the height and thickness of the keys I can improve my typing. Gaming with it feels really awesome though, especially fps and mmos. I went with the CM Storm Quickfire Pro and I must say it is definitely a great buy for $100.


----------



## SolidSnakeUS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bengal*
> 
> Wow that's an amazing price for that keyboard. I am a Brown switch guy and have been drooling over it for a while. Might just pull the trigger because of that price. It's $120 on Newegg.


Also letting you know that Amazon has it as well. If you were to buy it out of stock (which it is right now) for the given price ($90.00), when it comes in stock, they will sell and ship it to you for that price, even if there's a price hike. Also, if you do buy via NCIX with the USA store, keep in mind the billing gets routed to Canada, so you'll be charged a Foreign Transaction Fee or something like that, which would only be a couple bucks or so.


----------



## bengal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SolidSnakeUS*
> 
> Also letting you know that Amazon has it as well. If you were to buy it out of stock (which it is right now) for the given price ($90.00), when it comes in stock, they will sell and ship it to you for that price, even if there's a price hike. Also, if you do buy via NCIX with the USA store, keep in mind the billing gets routed to Canada, so you'll be charged a Foreign Transaction Fee or something like that, which would only be a couple bucks or so.


Wow thanks for the info. +rape







i mean rep


----------



## linkin93

MX Black Switches


----------



## BeastRider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93*
> 
> 
> 
> MX Black Switches


Hope you like it! Fellow black user here. Great for gaming but I need to work on typing with it. Often I make typos. I am used to typing on a laptop so I hope I get the hang of it.


----------



## Computer-Lab in Basement

Quick question about this guide here:

Is it alright if I use some of the pics/info from this guide in a PowerPoint presentation I have to do for school? The topic for my presentation is mechanical keyboards and the guide here has alot of helpful information and pics that would greatly help with this assignment.

Credit will be given accordingly, based on the content that I decide to use.

Thanks,

-CLiB


----------



## Tator Tot

As long as you appropriately credit the authors & contributors to the guide, that's not an issue.


----------



## bengal

Guys, will I get NKRO if I use a usb to ps2 adapter? The board in question here is the CM Storm Trigger.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bengal*
> 
> Guys, will I get NKRO if I use a usb to ps2 adapter? The board in question here is the CM Storm Trigger.


Yes


----------



## bengal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Yes


Really? Isn't USB limited to 6 keys only? How would a 6KRO translate to NKRO by just using an adapter?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bengal*
> 
> Really? Isn't USB limited to 6 keys only? How would a 6KRO translate to NKRO by just using an adapter?


USb isn't limited to 6 keys anymore, some boards can do more.

Anyways, it was the USB driver that limited the keys to 6, not the bandwidth (obviously). If your keyboard supports it, there is no problem putting out NKRO over the adapter.


----------



## Computer-Lab in Basement

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> As long as you appropriately credit the authors & contributors to the guide, that's not an issue.


Alrighty then, cool beans! Will definitely use the Cherry switch GIFs and some of Ripster's pics.

I might post the final PowerPoint here just to show you guys. I'm sure someone will be able to use it to learn the basics of mechanical boards...

Thanks,

CLiB


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Computer-Lab in Basement*
> 
> Alrighty then, cool beans! Will definitely use the Cherry switch GIFs and some of Ripster's pics.
> I might post the final PowerPoint here just to show you guys. I'm sure someone will be able to use it to learn the basics of mechanical boards...
> Thanks,
> CLiB


If you like I can make you some pie-charts that breaks down popularity by switch for general use, gaming and typing.

The charts aren't actually made yet as the form hosted in the Mech keyboard club hasn't got my ideal number of responses, but there are still enough to make usable charts if you'd like.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bengal*
> 
> Really? Isn't USB limited to 6 keys only? How would a 6KRO translate to NKRO by just using an adapter?


As Crazy said, the board supports it; but the USB driver limits it.

Newer boards support up to 26 keys over USB.

PS/2 ports / drivers have no such limitation, which is why it works.


----------



## Computer-Lab in Basement

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> If you like I can make you some pie-charts that breaks down popularity by switch for general use, gaming and typing.
> The charts aren't actually made yet as the form hosted in the Mech keyboard club hasn't got my ideal number of responses, but there are still enough to make usable charts if you'd like.


That would be amazing if you could get those for me! Of course, don't go out of your way just to do this for me, it's no big deal... although if you still want to get me this info, I'll need it by tomorrow at the latest (this assignment is due Thursday, just started it today lol).

By this time tomorrow I will probably have this finished, so I'll upload it then...

Thanks again,

-CLiB


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Computer-Lab in Basement*
> 
> That would be amazing if you could get those for me! Of course, don't go out of your way just to do this for me, it's no big deal... although if you still want to get me this info, I'll need it by tomorrow at the latest (this assignment is due Thursday, just started it today lol).
> By this time tomorrow I will probably have this finished, so I'll upload it then...
> Thanks again,
> -CLiB


There are the provisional versions, better versions can be generated when I get more data.

Also a footnote for the charts, the form included options for MX Greens, MX Clears and Buckling Spring, however they haven't received any tallies yet.







Hope these help.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> As Crazy said, the board supports it; but the USB driver limits it.
> Newer boards support up to 26 keys over USB.
> 
> PS/2 ports / drivers have no such limitation, which is why it works.


Wasn't it Ducky and some other company that was experimenting with NKRO over USB?

26KRO is more than enough. Most of us computer users have 10 fingers.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Wasn't it Ducky and some other company that was experimenting with NKRO over USB?
> 26KRO is more than enough. Most of us computer users have 10 fingers.


But I like mapping the right half of the keyboard to "Shoot" so I can play with my face.


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> But I like mapping the right half of the keyboard to "Shoot" so I can play with my face.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Wasn't it Ducky and some other company that was experimenting with NKRO over USB?
> 26KRO is more than enough. Most of us computer users have 10 fingers.


Many companies have done it.

Nopoo, Ducky, I think Topre did it on a board, Microsoft was the first to do it right, KBT.

I know some of the first boards to try NKRO over USB had issues where you would get key ghosting or incompatibility issues.

At this point in time, that's all worked out.

The DK9008-G2 Pro, DK9008-S2, & DK9008-YOTD all support NKRO over USB.


----------



## Computer-Lab in Basement

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> There are the provisional versions, better versions can be generated when I get more data.
> Also a footnote for the charts, the form included options for MX Greens, MX Clears and Buckling Spring, however they haven't received any tallies yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Hope these help.


Those will be EXTREMELY helpful, thank you. I'm working on slide 8 right now, and I need to have 8-12 slides total. I might have to integrate these into the summary slide...


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Computer-Lab in Basement*
> 
> Those will be EXTREMELY helpful, thank you. I'm working on slide 8 right now, and I need to have 8-12 slides total. I might have to integrate these into the summary slide...


You're welcome.

Once I have around 100 responses the charts will be much better, but I can't see them changing too drastically.


----------



## Davayy

Wonder how those charts ( awesome btw ) will change with the recent of G710+ boards coming.. Brown categorically will increase obviously.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Davayy*
> 
> Wonder how those charts ( awesome btw ) will change with the recent of G710+ boards coming.. Brown categorically will increase obviously.


And the Greens will asell as soon as Ducky releases their board with them.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> And the Greens will asell as soon as Ducky releases their board with them.


Ducky is releasing boards with green switches?! YES! NO MORE NEED FOR GHETTO GREENS (blue switches with a spring from a black switch, I believe. Going to have to go back to Geekhack to check that or use Google)!

I'm a bit surprised Reds are popular for typing though. That definitely shocked me a bit. Probably because more people own them because a lot of people game?


----------



## Computer-Lab in Basement

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Ducky is releasing boards with green switches?! YES! NO MORE NEED FOR GHETTO GREENS (blue switches with a spring from a black switch, I believe. Going to have to go back to Geekhack to check that or use Google)!
> I'm a bit surprised Reds are popular for typing though. That definitely shocked me a bit. Probably because more people own them because a lot of people game?


Hmm... Ducky with Greens? I'll have to look into getting one of those...

I have yet to type on a board with Reds, but considering how much I hated using Browns, I doubt I will ever want a board with Reds...


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Computer-Lab in Basement*
> 
> Hmm... Ducky with Greens? I'll have to look into getting one of those...
> I have yet to type on a board with Reds, but considering how much I hated using Browns, I doubt I will ever want a board with Reds...


I even like the shade of green that the switches are.


----------



## Computer-Lab in Basement

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> I even like the shade of green that the switches are.


Are there going to be TKL versions with Greens?


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Computer-Lab in Basement*
> 
> Hmm... Ducky with Greens? I'll have to look into getting one of those...
> I have yet to type on a board with Reds, but considering how much I hated using Browns, I doubt I will ever want a board with Reds...


I liked reds better than blacks. Blacks are way too stiff. I don't know why but the browns I tried at the keyboard store in Japan felt a bit harder to push down than the blues, which I think is supposed to be lower (brown is 45g and blue is 50 g right?). Even at peak force (55g) the browns shouldn't feel too different from the blues which have a peak force of 60g. Well, it's been 1-2 years already so I need to give each switch type another try again.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> I even like the shade of green that the switches are.


Looks awesome.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Computer-Lab in Basement*
> 
> Are there going to be TKL versions with Greens?


Most likely. You have most, if not all mechanical switches implemented in some sort of tenkeyless, except for probably clears and maybe some other colors that nobody knows exists (and other switches. I think Filco makes a White Alps tenkeyless. Pretty sure I tried it when I was at Akihabara at the Cleverly keyboard store).


----------



## Davayy

Can some one fill me in on what greens are? Linear?


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Davayy*
> 
> Can some one fill me in on what greens are? Linear?


Just like Cherry MX Clears are to Cherry MX Browns, or "Stiff Browns", Cherry MX Green is just Cherry MX Blue but with a higher actuation force (stiffer spring). I believe the actuation force is 60g like Cherry MX Black switches.


----------



## Davayy

Ah ok, thanks very much.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Davayy*
> 
> Can some one fill me in on what greens are? Linear?


No, AFAIK they are stiffer Blues, so they are tactile.


----------



## Computer-Lab in Basement

Ok, so I just finished my Mechanical Keyboards Guide PowerPoint presentation!

It does NOT cover everything, but it covers the essentials...

Anyways, I'll just leave this right here for your amusement:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/61075086/Mechanical%20Keyboards.pptx


----------



## ripster

Rofl. You need a key that says.....

FIRE!


----------



## Computer-Lab in Basement

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster*
> 
> Rofl. You need a key that says.....
> FIRE!


So the space bar on my QFR doesn't count?

Not that it should count... stupid branding.


----------



## Davayy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Computer-Lab in Basement*
> 
> Ok, so I just finished my Mechanical Keyboards Guide PowerPoint presentation!
> It does NOT cover everything, but it covers the essentials...
> Anyways, I'll just leave this right here for your amusement:
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/61075086/Mechanical%20Keyboards.pptx


Nice work, enjoyed reading it. I like the transitions, are those the new ones in powerpoint - never seen them before.


----------



## entreri00

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> No, AFAIK they are stiffer Blues, so they are tactile.


I hope whatever it is it's better than the greens on a Ducky 1008. It mimics the sound of those chattering teeth. Still, I love it. In the corner when it's quiet. I press it with my toe from time to time.


----------



## Bitemarks and bloodstains

Out of blacks, red and browns which switch you guys recommend for gaming and typing, I tend to mash the keys even when I am typing if that help.


----------



## Computer-Lab in Basement

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bitemarks and bloodstains*
> 
> Out of blacks, red and browns which switch you guys recommend for gaming and typing, I tend to mash the keys even when I am typing if that help.


Hmm... if you are a "key masher" then I would have to say Blacks would be your best bet, considering their higher actuation force. Although personally, I hate linear switches for typing...

If you game more than you type, then go with Blacks. If you type more than you game, go with Browns. If you don't value my opinions, go with Reds.


----------



## Anhedonique

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *entreri00*
> 
> I hope whatever it is it's better than the greens on a Ducky 1008. It mimics the sound of those chattering teeth. Still, I love it. In the corner when it's quiet. I press it with my toe from time to time.


Those are green alps, not cherry green.


----------



## Anhedonique

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bitemarks and bloodstains*
> 
> Out of blacks, red and browns which switch you guys recommend for gaming and typing, I tend to mash the keys even when I am typing if that help.


If you've got enough cash, just by a single switch for all types and choose one that you feel most comfortable with.

Brown or red are generally known for their performance in gaming, blacks tend to be tiresome for typing a lot, in the end it boils down to personal preference.


----------



## Bitemarks and bloodstains

Thanks guys I have gone for browns as some days I do not stop typing and some days is non stop gaming.
I cant wait for my Overclock.net ducky 9008G2 Pro.


----------



## ApollyonXD

Hey guys, I'm planning on getting a mechanical keyboard by the first monday of november.
Since shipping does a big number on the cost overall I have the *choice between a Corsair K60 and a K90.* The price difference between them is very negligible. So _I would like some final input from the community_ which of the two I should get.
This will be my first mechanical keyboard.
Any and all input is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Anhedonique

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ApollyonXD*
> 
> Hey guys, I'm planning on getting a mechanical keyboard by the first monday of november.
> Since shipping does a big number on the cost overall I have the *choice between a Corsair K60 and a K90.* The price difference between them is very negligible. So _I would like some final input from the community_ which of the two I should get.
> This will be my first mechanical keyboard.
> Any and all input is greatly appreciated.


Are you 100% sure you want the corsair K90/60?

It's pretty costly for something not fully mechanical (has some rubber domes)
But if you're from Germany, getting anything apart from the das will be hard if nov. 1st is the deadline


----------



## ApollyonXD

Well, kind of. I Checked the Das Keyboards out, they costs marginally more than the corsair ones. Plus the Das aren't available locally, whereas the Corsair ones are. If only one were rich.


----------



## Anhedonique

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ApollyonXD*
> 
> Well, kind of. I Checked the Das Keyboards out, they costs marginally more than the corsair ones. Plus the Das aren't available locally, whereas the Corsair ones are. If only one were rich.


Yeah I only mentioned das because it's fairly easy to find them in EU, other mechanical keyboard aren't that easy to get.

If you're really going to end up with either k90 or k60, check this thread out and you'll know which one to pick.


----------



## ApollyonXD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anhedonique*
> 
> Yeah I only mentioned das because it's fairly easy to find them in EU, other mechanical keyboard aren't that easy to get.
> If you're really going to end up with either k90 or k60, check this thread out and you'll know which one to pick.


Thanks alot for the fast reply and the input!


----------



## Anhedonique

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ApollyonXD*
> 
> Thanks alot for the fast reply and the input!


You're welcome, have fun with your keyboard


----------



## BeastRider

Okay after a couple days with my MX Blacks they are actually starting to grow on me. I can actually float on them even without the tactile feedback which means it is EXTREMELY quiet and fun to type on. I admit I still make a couple of typos but I believe I still have a lot of time to get used to them. They are pretty hard but to me this is more a pro than a con since I have heavy hands. Gaming is without a doubt a pleasurable experience, I can now enjoy playing Dirt on keyboard with my dad using the 1 controller I have on split-screen. Hopefully the typos will disappear as time passes and I can increase my typing speed. Overall I think I made the right choice.









Also another issue to me is that my work station is a laptop and I can't really bring my keboard to work everyday (pretty bulky and heavy) so I'm actually typing more on a laptop than I do on my mechanical. IDK if this is an issue but alternating with 2 very different keyboards might be cause me to never get 100% used to my mech. Or on the other hand, I can get used to both keyboards (IDK how the mind works in these situations lol).

Main point is MECH KEYBOARDS ARE SO MUCH BETTER THAN RUBBER DOME/SCISSOR TYPE KEYBOARDS!!


----------



## naso

I really want to get a mechanical keyboard, but I'm not sure what one to buy since there are so many, can anyone with experience with a mechanical keyboard and gaming recommend me a good one that's not over 150$ ?


----------



## kotakueuro

quick question about the g710+ here, where are the profiles stored?
using this exclusively for my laptop, so i need to be able to have all my profiles and macros available every time i plug the board in.
only asking because i bought a gaming keyboard before that made me redo all the macros every time i plugged it into the computer.


----------



## bengal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naso*
> 
> I really want to get a mechanical keyboard, but I'm not sure what one to buy since there are so many, can anyone with experience with a mechanical keyboard and gaming recommend me a good one that's not over 150$ ?


Have you researched into the different types of switches? Make sure you do and come back with your preferred switch.


----------



## iEATu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naso*
> 
> I really want to get a mechanical keyboard, but I'm not sure what one to buy since there are so many, can anyone with experience with a mechanical keyboard and gaming recommend me a good one that's not over 150$ ?


The Corsair Vengence K60 is $60 right now on newegg with a rebate. _Last day._
Corsair Vengence K90 is $105 on amazon, also a sale. I dont know how long it lasts.
The K90 has some extra macro keys on the side, a full wrist rest, and lighted keys.

High quality keyboards, both use cherry mx red switches.


----------



## TheOddOne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naso*
> 
> I really want to get a mechanical keyboard, but I'm not sure what one to buy since there are so many, can anyone with experience with a mechanical keyboard and gaming recommend me a good one that's not over 150$ ?


Rosewill has pretty cheap keyboards that are under $100
CM RapidFire is $70 on newegg IIRC
Steelseries 6Gv2 is $89-$99


----------



## naso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bengal*
> 
> Have you researched into the different types of switches? Make sure you do and come back with your preferred switch.


I have looked at all of them, but I've never physically felt any of them, so it's hard for me to have a preferred switch. That's why I was asking for someone experienced with mechanical keyboards.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iEATu*
> 
> The Corsair Vengence K60 is $60 right now on newegg with a rebate. _Last day._
> Corsair Vengence K90 is $105 on amazon, also a sale. I dont know how long it lasts.
> The K90 has some extra macro keys on the side, a full wrist rest, and lighted keys.
> High quality keyboards, both use cherry mx red switches.


Heh, looks like I missed the sale, darn it, I still might end up getting it if you think they are good keyboards.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheOddOne*
> 
> Rosewill has pretty cheap keyboards that are under $100
> CM RapidFire is $70 on newegg IIRC
> Steelseries 6Gv2 is $89-$99


I've never heard of the RapidFire, but I was looking into the Steelseries 6Gv2, I would have gotten it, but I wanted to be sure there where other options on there before just jumping on this one.


----------



## ckWL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naso*
> 
> I really want to get a mechanical keyboard, but I'm not sure what one to buy since there are so many, can anyone with experience with a mechanical keyboard and gaming recommend me a good one that's not over 150$ ?


Cooler Master Quick Fire series. I am a counter-strike/sc2/dota2 player and I absolutely love this board.


----------



## Davayy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iEATu*
> 
> The Corsair Vengence K60 is $60 right now on newegg with a rebate. _Last day._
> Corsair Vengence K90 is $105 on amazon, also a sale. I dont know how long it lasts.
> The K90 has some extra macro keys on the side, a full wrist rest, and lighted keys.
> High quality keyboards, both use cherry mx red switches.


Wouldn't recommend the k60 or k90 as mechanical keyboards seeing as they aren't 'truly' mechanical. If you're going to be around $150 for a mechanical, at least get a decent one. Have a look at Filco, Das, Ducky and coolermaster QF among others.


----------



## naso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Davayy*
> 
> Wouldn't recommend the k60 or k90 as mechanical keyboards seeing as they aren't 'truly' mechanical. If you're going to be around $150 for a mechanical, at least get a decent one. Have a look at Filco, Das, Ducky and coolermaster QF among others.


What do you mean aren't 'truly' mechanical?


----------



## Davayy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naso*
> 
> What do you mean aren't 'truly' mechanical?


Not _all_ the buttons use mechanical switches. It's a very minor thing, but none of the F keys are mechanical, neither are the keys with "delete, Inset, Home" etc. I would rather have a full keyboard of mechanical switches if i'm going to be buying a KB for $100-$150.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naso*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Davayy*
> 
> Wouldn't recommend the k60 or k90 as mechanical keyboards seeing as they aren't 'truly' mechanical. If you're going to be around $150 for a mechanical, at least get a decent one. Have a look at Filco, Das, Ducky and coolermaster QF among others.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean aren't 'truly' mechanical?
Click to expand...

Not all the keys are mechanical, some of the lesser used keys and macro keys on them are rubber dome.

Also if you wanted, you could buy one each of the main types of switches from here to compare them, they will feel slightly different when they are in the actual board but the general linear/ tactile feel and the amount of force required will be pretty consistent with how it will feel in the board.


----------



## iEATu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naso*
> 
> I have looked at all of them, but I've never physically felt any of them, so it's hard for me to have a preferred switch. That's why I was asking for someone experienced with mechanical keyboards.
> Heh, looks like I missed the sale, darn it, I still might end up getting it if you think they are good keyboards.
> I've never heard of the RapidFire, but I was looking into the Steelseries 6Gv2, I would have gotten it, but I wanted to be sure there where other options on there before just jumping on this one.


To me the cherry mx red is appealing because I like using the touch screen keyboard on my ipad. So having a quiet, easy to press keyboard sounds great. If you want now that the main sale is gone, you could wait a few days and I can tell you how my friend likes his keyboard. He plays FPS a lot, and types a lot of essays. He bought the k60 2 days ago.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ckWL*
> 
> Cooler Master Quick Fire series. I am a counter-strike/sc2/dota2 player and I absolutely love this board.


Oh cool, a smaller sized keyboard with choices of either cherry mx black, blue, brown, or red. How is the quality of the keyboard? Oh but it doesnt have the num pad








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Davayy*
> 
> Wouldn't recommend the k60 or k90 as mechanical keyboards seeing as they aren't 'truly' mechanical. If you're going to be around $150 for a mechanical, at least get a decent one. Have a look at Filco, Das, Ducky and coolermaster QF among others.


I dont think it really matters for the F keys, but I do use the other set of keys pretty often while typing (del, ins). But the corsair keyboards are the only ones with cherry mx red AND some extra features.


----------



## naso

I think the final question is, blacklit or not blacklit? What do you guys think?


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naso*
> 
> I think the final question is, blacklit or not blacklit? What do you guys think?


Blacklit?


----------



## Davayy

I love my blacklit keyboard. I can see so much!


----------



## Anhedonique

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naso*
> 
> I really want to get a mechanical keyboard, but I'm not sure what one to buy since there are so many, can anyone with experience with a mechanical keyboard and gaming recommend me a good one that's not over 150$ ?


You should tell us more. You're aware that there are dozens of different switches and even more models.

Generally, look for anything that has brown or red switches - those are considered good for gaming, blacks not so much because their actuation force is higher, pressing them becomes tiresome after long gaming sessions.

I went with blue for gaming, tested out green alps and fell in love with them but I can't find any where I live.
How many hours do you spend gaming/typing, do you prefer a louder more clicky sound or silent keyboards?

If you're from the states, getting some cheap peripherals won't be hard. EU.. a bit harder, if you mind the insane shipping fees.

From the top of my head
CM storm QFR Tenkeyless ~80$ (comes in a variety of switches so you can pick the one you like the most)
Das Keyboard ~130$ (comes in brown and blue)
Anything from ducky - they range from 55$ (green alps) to $140+ (shine, dragon)
Rosewill has some pretty cheap ones, might want to give that one a try.

I personally don't recommend the razer blackwidow or the corsair (you pay full price for a non-fully mechanical keyboard)

edit: I think I may have missed a whole page... oh well.


----------



## entreri00

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naso*
> 
> I think the final question is, blacklit or not blacklit? What do you guys think?


More money. I don't think you'd go wrong with the k60. I think they look pretty cool. I love the aluminum and I think you could do some great stuff if you bought keys for it. However, I don't have it so I'd go by reviews, just to see if there are problems. I think I've seen some issues where keys are sticking. I've tried them in the store and they feel fine. The partly non-mechanical doesn't bother me. Not common presses so whatever, hopefully next time they'll change that. Interestingly most people who don't have a mechanical that I've let use my Browns, Blues and Reds for extended periods preferred the Red on my WASD.. Non-gamers. The other two were a DAS and a Filco. I like the Reds for gaming but not as much for typing but this is only by degrees because I have a choice of 3 switches. I'd be happy with any of them. The blues are better to me for just working and if I only could have one keyboard it would be the Browns by a hair as they are nicely general purpose.


----------



## iEATu

I love having a backlit keyboard. Depends on whether or not you want to spend more money ^^


----------



## bengal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anhedonique*
> 
> I went with blue for gaming, tested out green alps and fell in love with them but I can't find any where I live.
> How many hours do you spend gaming/typing, do you prefer a louder more clicky sound or silent keyboards?
> If you're from the states, getting some cheap peripherals won't be hard. EU.. a bit harder, if you mind the insane shipping fees.


How do you like/hate blues for gaming?


----------



## KipH

Why would you need to type with your screen and the lights off? BL is a luxury you don't need. Its nice but.

You have had good advices. The QF or Ducky will do you well. Go Ducky if you need lights QF if you want to be cheep. Or wait a bit for the CM Quick Fire TF (I think TF?). Its like a back-lit QF with numbers squished on. Good board too. Just find a look that you like and a price you can live with. They are all good in some way.

And on switch. I started with brown but switched to red. That is a normal thing. It did make me a better typist too.
Blacks are for gamers who hit the keys hard.
Blues are for the pure touch typist.
Browns are for people who don't want loud blues.
Reds are for typing a bit lighter than on your browns.

IN GENERAL. There are some who hare this list as they game on blues or something. It is a very personal choice. You have to think how you type, how you would like to type and then get the switch that best fits..


----------



## naso

Thanks for all the great informative comments and suggestions guys, I really do appreciate it! I'm will most likely end up getting a cooler master with a red or blue switch type, even tho Anhedonique says that there are many more that I haven't even looked into.( sorry man, maybe when I'm ready to move )

@Anhedonique: I spend long hours typing / gaming, and I don't really have a personal preference between louder more clicky sound or silent keyboards, either is fine.


----------



## Anhedonique

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bengal*
> 
> How do you like/hate blues for gaming?


I don't have any gaming achievements to prove my theory, when I first tried out blues for gaming I thought I did a big mistake. They feel "clumsy", once the key is pressed completely down it needs to go all the way up again before it registers a keystroke, thus making micro-dodging, strafing left and right quickly a bit messy at first. I'm going to assume most of my issues were related to me not being used to tactile mechanical keyboards. After a while, I played better with blues rather than brown because the general feel was much more familiar.

Final consensus: Blue switches are great for gaming but certainly not for everyone, takes some time to get used to the keystrokes.


----------



## Fortunex

Yeah, similar for me, but I didn't really have any issues switching to blues for gaming. I love them for everything. Still on the fence about whether I prefer browns or blues though. I think I prefer the feel of browns but the sound of blues.


----------



## iEATu

Just know, naso, that the other main difference between red and blue switches is that the activation and release points are the same on red, but different for blue.

Like someone else said, it might be weird at first for gaming.


----------



## naso

I ended up going with the Cooler Master Storm Quickfire TK (Blue Switch), it was really hard to find a vender, but I did find a new one on ebay for 100$ (Normal Price if I recall correctly).


----------



## iEATu

Enjoy your new keyboard!


----------



## Anhedonique

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naso*
> 
> I ended up going with the Cooler Master Storm Quickfire TK (Blue Switch), it was really hard to find a vender, but I did find a new one on ebay for 100$ (Normal Price if I recall correctly).


You won't regret it, the QF is a great keyboard.


----------



## SuperSTAR3589

What do you guys think about:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823334013 or

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823201042

Would like your opinions. Thanks


----------



## mironccr345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naso*
> 
> I ended up going with the Cooler Master Storm Quickfire TK (Blue Switch), it was really hard to find a vender, but I did find a new one on ebay for 100$ (Normal Price if I recall correctly).


Nice! Im thinking of getting the TK Browns to replace my QFR Reds.


----------



## TheNephilim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuperSTAR3589*
> 
> What do you guys think about:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823334013 or
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823201042
> Would like your opinions. Thanks


The USB 3.0 port on the Gigabyte Osmium is great! I'm not sure, but build quality for the Gigabyte is better then the Rosewill.


----------



## KipH

The Rosewill seemed a good board when I tried it at Computex. You can see it in my coverage there if you look. But it is just the same as all the others by that OEM. Good but a bit boring. They can be a good deal in you need to save a few $10 of dollars.

The Gigabyte feels bigger somehow and a bit flashier. It also has bells an whistles, almost literally







If you like the looks of it I would get it. It did tempt me. Then I remembered I had 3 other mech boards at home LOL


----------



## Davayy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheNephilim*
> 
> The USB 3.0 port on the Gigabyte Osmium is great! I'm not sure, but build quality for the Gigabyte is better then the Rosewill.


Are you the guy that is completely anti-rosewill?
The build quality, which is just the same as Filco's, Duckys, will also be comparable with the gigabyte. Go with the one you feel you will utilise the most..


----------



## hschnee

I have a question that I'm hoping some of you experts can help me with. After years of suffering with the flat iMac keyboard, I have finally decided to buy a real (i.e. mechanical) one. On my work computer, I am happily using my vintage 1989 Northgate keyboard (model K104). This is my favorite keyboard of all time. What I love about it is that it has a great tactile feel and click with a slightly lighter touch than the legendary IBM model M buckling spring keyboard. It's also a little bit quieter.

After quite a bit of internet research, I bought a Das Keyboard Professional Model S for Mac (Cherry MX blue switches). It's okay, but I'm not loving it as much as I had hoped. I find the feel good for most of the keys, but thy seem slow to come back up, and I sometimes don't get a keypress to register. It also makes a hollow, echoey "ringing" sound with every keypress, especially from the space bar. The switches also make a rather high-pitched sound with each press. It's especially bad on the larger keys--shift, spacebar, etc. So my guess is that this results from a combination of the Cherry blue switches and the mechanism used to hold the longer keys.

Given all that, are there any suggestions as to which keyboard I might really like? I've considered the Matias Tactile Pro (they are taking pre-orders for version 4), but many of the reviews I've read talk about mediocre build quality and poor reliability. Would I be happiest going completely old-school with a Unicomp and its buckling springs? They now make Mac-specific versions. Is there anything that will feel like my beloved old Northgate?

- Hal -


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hschnee*
> 
> I have a question that I'm hoping some of you experts can help me with. After years of suffering with the flat iMac keyboard, I have finally decided to buy a real (i.e. mechanical) one. On my work computer, I am happily using my vintage 1989 Northgate keyboard (model K104). This is my favorite keyboard of all time. What I love about it is that it has a great tactile feel and click with a slightly lighter touch than the legendary IBM model M buckling spring keyboard. It's also a little bit quieter.
> After quite a bit of internet research, I bought a Das Keyboard Professional Model S for Mac (Cherry MX blue switches). It's okay, but I'm not loving it as much as I had hoped. I find the feel good for most of the keys, but thy seem slow to come back up, and I sometimes don't get a keypress to register. It also makes a hollow, echoey "ringing" sound with every keypress, especially from the space bar. The switches also make a rather high-pitched sound with each press. It's especially bad on the larger keys--shift, spacebar, etc. So my guess is that this results from a combination of the Cherry blue switches and the mechanism used to hold the longer keys.
> Given all that, are there any suggestions as to which keyboard I might really like? I've considered the Matias Tactile Pro (they are taking pre-orders for version 4), but many of the reviews I've read talk about mediocre build quality and poor reliability. Would I be happiest going completely old-school with a Unicomp and its buckling springs? They now make Mac-specific versions. Is there anything that will feel like my beloved old Northgate?
> - Hal -


 http://matias.ca/quietpro/mac/

QueitPro would be your best shot. TP1 & Tp2 had some issues, but the TP3 & QP are much better.


----------



## 4514kaiser

Yer i was also really tempted by the Gigabyte Osmium however i was really keen to get Brown switches so i went with MaxKeyboard.

I just got my Filco Wrist rest..... wow that was expensive but i'm enjoying it a fair bit


----------



## Cyclonic

I'm going to buy my first mech keyboard.

Think it will go between the Logitech g710 or the Corsair k90, i need the G keys, and i want a backlight.

Now the problem is brown vs red switches. I am using a Logitech g19 now, I am a very fast typer, and i tend rest my hand on the keys when typing and slide them over the keys instead of hovering over them, also i tend to bash the keys.

So i dont know if i can get used to the red switches, do other former key bashers got used to the red switches?


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclonic*
> 
> I'm going to buy my first mech keyboard.
> 
> Think it will go between the Logitech g710 or the Corsair k90, i need the G keys, and i want a backlight.
> 
> Now the problem is brown vs red switches. I am using a Logitech g19 now, I am a very fast typer, and i tend rest my hand on the keys when typing and slide them over the keys instead of hovering over them, also i tend to bash the keys.
> 
> So i dont know if i can get used to the red switches, do other former key bashers got used to the red switches?


I went from a G19 to Brown switches, I think Red's would be too light if you are used to hammering the keys.


----------



## Buska103

What the heck is MX-Green switch?
Something that CM made up or specifically contracted with specifications? Or just an underground switch brought to light?

http://www.cmstore-usa.com/quickfire-rapid-mechanical-gaming-keyboard-green-switch/
http://www.cmstore-usa.com/trigger-mechanical-gaming-keyboard/


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buska103*
> 
> What the heck is MX-Green switch?
> Something that CM made up or specifically contracted with specifications? Or just an underground switch brought to light?
> 
> http://www.cmstore-usa.com/quickfire-rapid-mechanical-gaming-keyboard-green-switch/
> http://www.cmstore-usa.com/trigger-mechanical-gaming-keyboard/


I believe they are MX Blues with heavier springs so they require more force to actuate.


----------



## Tator Tot

An 80cN MX-Blue.

They feel a bit nicer than normal MX-Blue's due to the heavier click, but they still sound as cheap as normal MX Blues.


----------



## ripster

Somebody should put the Green MX in the OCN Mechanical Keyboard guide.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster*
> 
> Somebody should put the Green MX in the OCN Mechanical Keyboard guide.


Shouldn't it be left until they become more popular? At the moment they aren't all that prevalent.

Then again you are somewhat of an authority on mech boards so I could be wrong.


----------



## hschnee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> http://matias.ca/quietpro/mac/
> 
> QueitPro would be your best shot. TP1 & Tp2 had some issues, but the TP3 & QP are much better.


How does the feel of the Quietpro compare to the Tactile Pro or the Das (or an IBM M, for that matter)? Does it really have as much of a tactile feel, just without the clicking sound?

- Hal -


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hschnee*
> 
> How does the feel of the Quietpro compare to the Tactile Pro or the Das (or an IBM M, for that matter)? Does it really have as much of a tactile feel, just without the clicking sound?
> - Hal -


I have the Tactile Pro 2, and in comparison it has a stronger tactile feel with less noise. No click on it.

While I don't have a Das with MX-Blues, I have many similar boards and ones with MX-Blues (like my WASD Custom), and it feels better than the Blues.

It feels similar to the Dell AT101W & SGI Granite's that I have. Though, they definitely have that new & crisp feel. Both the Dell & SGI boards have a more worn down, or broken in feel to them. Not that they feel bad, but it's somewhat traditional for most mechanical switches after some years of heavy use to get that feel.

My very used Ducky with MX-Browns has that feel while my lightly used Zowie board does not. The Ducky has probably had around 5-6 million key strokes across it already.

The force required to activate the switch is similar to the blues, but it feels smoother. The QuietPro's switch is more of a copy used by the original Apple Extended Keyboard II.

The motion of the switch isn't as smooth as I'd like, but I would put it on par with a Cherry switch, and easily one of my more favorite switches since it has more force behind it, like an MX-Clear or Buckling Spring.

Like wise, the old Matias Tactile Pro with it's clicky switch, wasn't really a dream to type on. It wasn't bad, and better than Apple's flat (or older full sized) keyboards. The switches (***ka white alps) were somewhat wobbly & felt / sounded, cheap.

I would say that your old board (the Northgate) should have a similar feel since Blue Alps are supposed to be smoother than whites, and feel a bit better. While it won't have the audio feedback, some may see that as a plus and the tactile feel should be very good. It's much better than the browns, and as far as tactile switches; I'd mark it up there with MX-Clears.

My only question about the QuietPro would be switch longevity. Since Matias is having these switches made custom for them, we don't really know enough to judge either way. Given the companies commitment, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

My TactilePro 2.0 has actually spent most of it's life in heavy use in audio editing (since ProTools was previously better on the Mac OS), and it's not had any issues but plenty of abuse. While not the greatest keyboard in existence, it does make for one of the best, and most complete Apple keyboards.

The QuietPro was purchased purely based on the good experience with the TactilePro 2.0 as well as the desire for a quieter keyboard.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster*
> 
> Somebody should put the Green MX in the OCN Mechanical Keyboard guide.


I actually do plan to add it in, just haven't had the time yet.

We should see a good wave of MX-Green keyboards coming to the US or at least China since most of the factories got shipments of them in.


----------



## UberPooch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anhedonique*
> 
> Generally, look for anything that has brown or red switches - those are considered good for gaming, blacks not so much because their actuation force is higher, pressing them becomes tiresome after long gaming sessions.
> I went with blue for gaming...


First, thanks all for this epic thread. Learned A LOT in one place









Why did you go with blue? I've decided on the CM Storm QuickFire Rapid for my FPS gaming. Was hoping to find a solid wireless but no such luck. I travel a lot and need something smaller (without a num pad). Still torn on the switches. Leaning towards red but then people started chiming in that they enjoy blues once they got used to them. Embarrassed to say that I started with a Black Widow so I don't really have anything else to compare it to.


----------



## Anhedonique

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UberPooch*
> 
> First, thanks all for this epic thread. Learned A LOT in one place
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why did you go with blue? I've decided on the CM Storm QuickFire Rapid for my FPS gaming. Was hoping to find a solid wireless but no such luck. I travel a lot and need something smaller (without a num pad). Still torn on the switches. Leaning towards red but then people started chiming in that they enjoy blues once they got used to them. Embarrassed to say that I started with a Black Widow so I don't really have anything else to compare it to.


I wasn't really planing to go with blues, I did however instantly fell in love with the sound feedback - blues just have a very distinctive sexy sound. Each keypress is like Mozart's symphony. Now imagine typing fast on it. It's like an orgasmic orchestra!
While the first gaming session felt awkward, this might be attributed to switching from rubber domes to *any* mechanical keyboard, I still believe blues are not for everyone.

If you want to play it safe, go with browns or reds for gaming. Gives blues a try if you feel adventurous. You won't be disappointed by any of them.


----------



## ash152152

Hi guys,
I am newbie to mechanical keyboard. Looking for a keyboard under $90 with blue switchs.

http://www.amazon.com/Storm-QuickFire-Pro-Mechanical-SGK-4010-GKCM1-US/dp/B007VDOOBU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352609993&sr=8-1&keywords=cm+storm+quickfire+pro
CM Storm QuickFire Pro
Is it decent in this price range? Cause I heard some bad reviews about this keyboard..
Or do you guys have any other suggestion ?

Thanks guys.


----------



## Anhedonique

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ash152152*
> 
> Hi guys,
> I am newbie to mechanical keyboard. Looking for a keyboard under $90 with blue switchs.
> http://www.amazon.com/Storm-QuickFire-Pro-Mechanical-SGK-4010-GKCM1-US/dp/B007VDOOBU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352609993&sr=8-1&keywords=cm+storm+quickfire+pro
> CM Storm QuickFire Pro
> Is it decent in this price range? Cause I heard some bad reviews about this keyboard..
> Or do you guys have any other suggestion ?
> Thanks guys.


I'd like to see that bad review... CM QFP is a great keyboard, those switches are brown however.

The TKL version comes with blue switches and is 20$ cheaper.


----------



## ash152152

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anhedonique*
> 
> I'd like to see that bad review... CM QFP is a great keyboard, those switches are brown however.
> The TKL version comes with blue switches and is 20$ cheaper.


Haha, I think I grabbed the wrong link.
Those reviews said that the OEM of QFP is ione (same as RAZER). Therefore, the quality of QFP is as bad as Razer.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1292538/thoughts-on-the-cm-quickfire-pro-quality/10


----------



## KipH

Yes, the Pro version is not up to the same quality standard as the other QF boards. I would avoid it if you can. Get a Rapid or the new TK. The TK is tempting me, all shiny and small.


----------



## ash152152

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Yes, the Pro version is not up to the same quality standard as the other QF boards. I would avoid it if you can. Get a Rapid or the new TK. The TK is tempting me, all shiny and small.


I have though about the TK or QFR, but I want 104 keys only.
Any other advice rather than QFP? LED black-light is not necessary .


----------



## Paradigm84

Just went out to buy paper, the keyboard at the register was a Model M (I think) and I heard the cashier call it stupid.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ash152152*
> 
> I have though about the TK or QFR, but I want 104 keys only.
> Any other advice rather than QFP? LED black-light is not necessary .


Well, there is the Rosewell. Its a nice cheep simple 104 layout. But try the TK again. It does have 10 key, jut shared with the arrows. I think it will feel more like my iRocks than a true 10key-less, like the QFR.


----------



## Davayy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Just went out to buy paper, the keyboard at the register was a Model M (I think) and I heard the cashier call it stupid.


Should've been like - "Yes, that is a _stupid_ keyboard isn't, being all sentient and that. Then suggest that you could replace it with a much nicer and newer MICROSOFT keyboard, and that you should destroy the model m for being bad."


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Davayy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Just went out to buy paper, the keyboard at the register was a Model M (I think) and I heard the cashier call it stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should've been like - "Yes, that is a _stupid_ keyboard isn't, being all sentient and that. Then suggest that you could replace it with a much nicer and newer MICROSOFT keyboard, and that you should destroy the model m for being bad."
Click to expand...

I was tempted to hit her with it but I didn't want to kill her.









I should go back and offer a £5 Dell keyboard as a trade.


----------



## ripster

It was most likely a IBM ANPOS rubber dome keyboard.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster*
> 
> It was most likely a IBM ANPOS rubber dome keyboard.


Looked identical to a Model M and sounded mechanical though.


----------



## ripster

Take a paper clip, yell SHOPLIFTER!, pop the key, RUN!


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster*
> 
> Take a paper clip, yell SHOPLIFTER!, pop the key, RUN!


Alternatively just press a key and you could probably tell the difference.


----------



## UberPooch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anhedonique*
> 
> While the first gaming session felt awkward, this might be attributed to switching from rubber domes to *any* mechanical keyboard, I still believe blues are not for everyone.
> If you want to play it safe, go with browns or reds for gaming. Gives blues a try if you feel adventurous. You won't be disappointed by any of them.


Thanks, ended up going with browns. I'm sure I'll be pleased with the board.

Now if I can just find a solid mouse!


----------



## TheNephilim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UberPooch*
> 
> Thanks, ended up going with browns. I'm sure I'll be pleased with the board.
> Now if I can just find a solid mouse!


http://steelseries.com/

They have some mice with a ruberized surface. Very very solid and non slippy in ur hand.


----------



## M3T4LM4N222

I bought a Razer BlackWidow w/ blue new from a local store for $60 and it was absolutely worth it. Mechanical keyboards make a WORLD of difference and I literally type faster with the keyboard!


----------



## UberPooch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UberPooch*
> 
> Now if I can just find a solid mouse!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheNephilim*
> 
> http://steelseries.com/
> They have some mice with a ruberized surface. Very very solid and non slippy in ur hand.


Yeah, I had actually found a Sensei locally this weekend but took it back the next day. The software sucks and couldn't get the profiles to work properly. Spent a good chunk of the day online with a guy who to troubleshoot and found out it was a pretty common problem. Liked the feel of the mouse though, just wish their software matched the design quality.


----------



## TheNephilim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UberPooch*
> 
> Yeah, I had actually found a Sensei locally this weekend but took it back the next day. The software sucks and couldn't get the profiles to work properly. Spent a good chunk of the day online with a guy who to troubleshoot and found out it was a pretty common problem. Liked the feel of the mouse though, just wish their software matched the design quality.


The software is a bit tricky indeed but I don't realy use it that much, not a problem for me. The newest Steelseries mice have Steelseries Engine, it's just not as good as the (old) software that was used with the Xai Lasermouse which I am using.

The Logitech G5 is very populair because of it's shape, you might wanna try that one.


----------



## UberPooch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UberPooch*
> 
> Yeah, I had actually found a Sensei locally this weekend but took it back the next day. The software sucks and couldn't get the profiles to work properly. Spent a good chunk of the day online with a guy who to troubleshoot and found out it was a pretty common problem. Liked the feel of the mouse though, just wish their software matched the design quality.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheNephilim*
> 
> The software is a bit tricky indeed but I don't realy use it that much, not a problem for me. The newest Steelseries mice have Steelseries Engine, it's just not as good as the (old) software that was used with the Xai Lasermouse which I am using.
> The Logitech G5 is very populair because of it's shape, you might wanna try that one.


I wasn't able to add a profile to my Sensei without it defaulting to the one used for the engine. Also couldn't find a way to delete the other custom profiles on the mouse (even though they were deleted via the engine's software interface). After a few hours I gave up and took it back. I've talked to others who have had profile issues with the software (one guy took back 3 of them).

I used the G5 ages ago but need a higher DPI. Trying out the G700 which is nice. Had to switch to a hard mouse pad since it's laser and still getting used to the shape but at least the Logitech software works!


----------



## Bitemarks and bloodstains

My ducky


----------



## TheNephilim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bitemarks and bloodstains*
> 
> My ducky


Nice, congratz! ^^


----------



## Trojita

Hello All!

I'm taking my first foray into the world of Mechanical Keyboards.

I think I've settled on the Brown's, because they are a middle of the road switch, but I'm open to suggestions. I'm mainly playing video games and browsing the web.

I was thinking about getting a Das but then was told to avoid them because they recently switched manufacturers. They used to be made by Costar but are now made by iOne, which I hear is inferior.

Thanks


----------



## salvanos

btw got to test my friend mechanichal ducky red swicth

tried it to all my family

no one like red switch, me too

i like soft touch, red switch got that characteristic
but the deeper push, making it not comfortable like regular keyboard

does that mean i need to test brown switch? or blue switch?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trojita*
> 
> Hello All!
> I'm taking my first foray into the world of Mechanical Keyboards.
> I think I've settled on the Brown's, because they are a middle of the road switch, but I'm open to suggestions. I'm mainly playing video games and browsing the web.
> I was thinking about getting a Das but then was told to avoid them because they recently switched manufacturers. They used to be made by Costar but are now made by iOne, which I hear is inferior.
> Thanks


Where are you seeing that Das Keyboards switched to iOne as the OEM?

Also, browns are a good middle of the road switch for the most part; but how do you feel as a typist. Do you feel like you use a lot of force while typing?

Also, are you looking for an audible click?


----------



## Trojita

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Where are you seeing that Das Keyboards switched to iOne as the OEM?
> 
> Also, browns are a good middle of the road switch for the most part; but how do you feel as a typist. Do you feel like you use a lot of force while typing?
> 
> Also, are you looking for an audible click?


I keep on seeing it mentioned in posts and reviews

I use medium to high force maybe? I'm not sure. I've only ever used membrane based keyboards. No audible click is fine. Quieter is better for me.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trojita*
> I keep on seeing it mentioned in posts and reviews
> I use medium to high force maybe? I'm not sure. I've only ever used membrane based keyboards. No audible click is fine. Quieter is better for me.


Could you perhaps link to one of these. The only thing I have found is a report saying the model with media keys is made by iOne while the ones without are made by Costar.

If you're looking for top of the line boards that are made, but not too expensive then:

Ducky DK9000 Series (9008, 9008-G2, 9008S, 9008-G2 Pro, 9008-S2.)

Rosewill RK-9000 Series (any of them, all Costar)

Those guys all fall into the same price bracket as the Das, with plenty of switch options.

Are there any specific features you're looking for? Like wise, price limit?


----------



## Trojita

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Could you perhaps link to one of these. The only thing I have found is a report saying the model with media keys is made by iOne while the ones without are made by Costar.
> 
> If you're looking for top of the line boards that are made, but not too expensive then:
> 
> Ducky DK9000 Series (9008, 9008-G2, 9008S, 9008-G2 Pro, 9008-S2.)
> Rosewill RK-9000 Series (any of them, all Costar)
> 
> Those guys all fall into the same price bracket as the Das, with plenty of switch options.
> 
> Are there any specific features you're looking for? Like wise, price limit?


Here's one of the reviews I saw.

http://www.amazon.com/Das-Keyboard-Professional-Mechanical-DASK3MKPROCLI/dp/B008PFABI8

Are all of the new DAS Keyboards coming with the media keys?

Price wise I'm looking for a keyboard between $75-$140.

No real features needed. LED lights would be nice though. I just want something of good quality.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trojita*
> 
> Here's one of the reviews I saw.
> http://www.amazon.com/Das-Keyboard-Professional-Mechanical-DASK3MKPROCLI/dp/B008PFABI8
> Are all of the new DAS Keyboards coming with the media keys?
> Price wise I'm looking for a keyboard between $75-$140.
> No real features needed. LED lights would be nice though. I just want something of good quality.


Over at Geekhack users were informed that Das has switched manufacturers. Since then, the quality has dropped. If I were you, I'd aim for another keyboard.

If all you need is media keys, get something like the QuickFire Rapid (tenkeyless board, so no number pad) or maybe a Ducky (I think they have media keys. I don't quite remember).


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trojita*
> 
> Here's one of the reviews I saw.
> http://www.amazon.com/Das-Keyboard-Professional-Mechanical-DASK3MKPROCLI/dp/B008PFABI8
> Are all of the new DAS Keyboards coming with the media keys?
> Price wise I'm looking for a keyboard between $75-$140.
> No real features needed. LED lights would be nice though. I just want something of good quality.


Yes, Das started putting media keys on their boards again and probably changed OEM's to reduce costs vs Costar.

Rosewill Backlit

Ducky Shine II

CM Storm Trigger

Logitech G710+ (would have to wait for a sale)

Those are the best options for backlit boards.

QPad, Max Keyboard, XArmor, Razer and a few other brands are made by iOne, so if you're not willing to buy from boards made by that OEM, they'll be out of the question.

As far as standard boards go:

Ducky DK9008, DK9008-G2, DK9008-G2 Pro

Rosewill's non-backlit line-up

Filco

Cooler Master's Storm Quickfire TK is also an option, but it's a weird one since it's a compact keyboard but integrates the arrow keys, and edit cluster into the num-pad instead of getting rid of the numpad.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> [
> 
> Over at Geekhack users were informed that Das has switched manufacturers. Since then, the quality has dropped. If I were you, I'd aim for another keyboard.
> .


Quality HAS dropped at Geekhack.org! They don't even know how to open up the keyboard or do FCC checks for the OEM any more!

Anyway, I'll let you guys know what I find out on this.

I haven't heard USERS complain about specific quality issues.


----------



## Trojita

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Yes, Das started putting media keys on their boards again and probably changed OEM's to reduce costs vs Costar.
> 
> Rosewill Backlit
> Ducky Shine II
> CM Storm Trigger
> Logitech G710+ (would have to wait for a sale)
> 
> Those are the best options for backlit boards.
> QPad, Max Keyboard, XArmor, Razer and a few other brands are made by iOne, so if you're not willing to buy from boards made by that OEM, they'll be out of the question.
> 
> As far as standard boards go:
> Ducky DK9008, DK9008-G2, DK9008-G2 Pro
> Rosewill's non-backlit line-up
> Filco
> 
> Cooler Master's Storm Quickfire TK is also an option, but it's a weird one since it's a compact keyboard but integrates the arrow keys, and edit cluster into the num-pad instead of getting rid of the numpad.


Thanks! I think I might go for the Ducky Shine II Tenkeyless.


----------



## SolidSnakeUS

Since I have a job now and considering spending a bit more, should I really spend the extra money (if I can find one in stock) for a Ducky Shine II (MX Brown keys and not sure about which LEDs)? I was originally thinking of a CM Storm Trigger. Or maybe a Logitech G710+?


----------



## Polarity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SolidSnakeUS*
> 
> Since I have a job now and considering spending a bit more, should I really spend the extra money (if I can find one in stock) for a Ducky Shine II (MX Brown keys and not sure about which LEDs)? I was originally thinking of a CM Storm Trigger. Or maybe a Logitech G710+?


go to tigerimports they have DKL editions now for 135$ just 13$ less from full keyboard lol

i was thinking about checking em out but i just love my das so much but the LED backlit...gets to me -,-

i was thinking about getting green LED tho~ with brown


----------



## Computer-Lab in Basement

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SolidSnakeUS*
> 
> Since I have a job now and considering spending a bit more, should I really spend the extra money (if I can find one in stock) for a Ducky Shine II (MX Brown keys and not sure about which LEDs)? I was originally thinking of a CM Storm Trigger. Or maybe a Logitech G710+?


The Ducky Shine II is probably your best bet. The Trigger would be your best alternative. Not sure about the Logitech though...


----------



## SolidSnakeUS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Polarity*
> 
> go to tigerimports they have DKL editions now for 135$ just 13$ less from full keyboard lol
> i was thinking about checking em out but i just love my das so much but the LED backlit...gets to me -,-
> i was thinking about getting green LED tho~ with brown


If you're talking about the tenkeyless, I can't do that. Since I game left handed, I need the arrow keys and the keypad to the right of it to play pretty much everything on the PC. Why is it so damn hard to get Ducky Shine 2's right now?


----------



## Henri Heinonen

My idea for a new mechanical keyboard is online: http://www.quirky.com/ideations/339699

In short: It combines the modifiability/changeability of touchscreen keyboards with good user experience of physical keyboards.

You can vote it if you like it...


----------



## Polarity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SolidSnakeUS*
> 
> If you're talking about the tenkeyless, I can't do that. Since I game left handed, I need the arrow keys and the keypad to the right of it to play pretty much everything on the PC. Why is it so damn hard to get Ducky Shine 2's right now?


=.= check tigerimports they have the full keyboard stock too dude


----------



## naso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naso*
> 
> I ended up going with the Cooler Master Storm Quickfire TK (Blue Switch), it was really hard to find a vender, but I did find a new one on ebay for 100$ (Normal Price if I recall correctly).


So I got my keyboard a couple of days ago, and I absolutely love it. While I'm still getting used to how light they keys are to press compared to my old rubber dome keyboard. This is pretty much what i wanted and I'm having no problems doing what i regularly did with my old keyboard! Great purchase, highly recommended!


----------



## SolidSnakeUS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Polarity*
> 
> =.= check tigerimports they have the full keyboard stock too dude


The only Shine II with MX Browns is a red LED one, and I'm kind of meh... I know I was considering the Trigger, but still.


----------



## KipH

There are 4 boards at my local store. All with red LED







3 browns and a blue switch. Perhaps a red too, though that may have been the Pro. I will keep eyes out for Blue LED.


----------



## exzacklyright

Is there really no quiet mechanical keyboards?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## SolidSnakeUS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exzacklyright*
> 
> Is there really no quiet mechanical keyboards?
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


If you want a solution to possibly help with noise, maybe get some o-rings for the keys. Outside of that, it will always make noise by at least bottoming out. Blues and Greens make noises without bottoming out with a click. Other than those, it's either tactile (feel) or linear (no feedback).

I hope I actually answered this correctly LOL.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SolidSnakeUS*
> 
> If you want a solution to possibly help with noise, maybe get some o-rings for the keys. Outside of that, it will always make noise by at least bottoming out. Blues and Greens make noises without bottoming out with a click. Other than those, it's either tactile (feel) or linear (no feedback).
> I hope I actually answered this correctly LOL.


Yeah that's about it. Most of the noise is from the bottom of the key whacking against the baseplate/plastic bottom. EK makes landing pads, or some people put on dental O-rings (the little ones for braces) to prevent the key from bottoming out.

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,slpads

On the extreme side you could also get a type S HHKB . http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=pfu_keyboards,hhkbpro2&pid=pdkb400ws


----------



## SolidSnakeUS

To go along with those, WASD Keyboards sells O-ring sets.

http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/cherry-mx-rubber-switch-dampeners.html

Funny, I said all this and I still don't own one lol.


----------



## Tator Tot

Matias also has the QuietPro which feels pretty good and is the most quiet out of the Alps & Cherry MX switches.


----------



## NotAgain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Matias also has the QuietPro which feels pretty good and is the most quiet out of the Alps & Cherry MX switches.


The switch itself is quiet, but they didn't bother to silence the rest of the keyboard (bottoming out, releasing keys) so while it may technically be the quietest mechanical switch (note: they do not consider Topre to be mechanical) it's definitely not the quietest mechanical keyboard.

I would probably recommend a Topre board, or a PCB-mounted MX Brown/Red with O-rings over the QuietPro.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NotAgain*
> 
> The switch itself is quiet, but they didn't bother to silence the rest of the keyboard (bottoming out, releasing keys) so while it may technically be the quietest mechanical switch (note: they do not consider Topre to be mechanical) it's definitely not the quietest mechanical keyboard.
> I would probably recommend a Topre board, or a PCB-mounted MX Brown/Red with O-rings over the QuietPro.


Browns & Reds are not as tactile as the Matias, and you can quiet the bottoming out if you really wish.

The "clack" you hear is only on the bottom stroke but not the release. As the switch is dampened on both the downward & upward travel.

It's a pretty good design all things considered.


----------



## Hersheyx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Yes, Das started putting media keys on their boards again and probably changed OEM's to reduce costs vs Costar.
> 
> Rosewill Backlit
> Ducky Shine II
> CM Storm Trigger
> Logitech G710+ (would have to wait for a sale)
> 
> Those are the best options for backlit boards.
> QPad, Max Keyboard, XArmor, Razer and a few other brands are made by iOne, so if you're not willing to buy from boards made by that OEM, they'll be out of the question.
> 
> As far as standard boards go:
> Ducky DK9008, DK9008-G2, DK9008-G2 Pro
> Rosewill's non-backlit line-up
> Filco
> 
> Cooler Master's Storm Quickfire TK is also an option, but it's a weird one since it's a compact keyboard but integrates the arrow keys, and edit cluster into the num-pad instead of getting rid of the numpad.


What is so great about Ducky? Who is their OEM? All I know is they use cherry stabilizers which are inferior to costar. Is ducky quality really high, how does it compare to WASD, the old Das, Filco


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hersheyx*
> 
> What is so great about Ducky? Who is their OEM? All I know is they use cherry stabilizers which are inferior to costar. Is ducky quality really high, how does it compare to WASD, the old Das, Filco


Ducky's quality is on par with Costar made products (Filco, "old" Das, WASD, Thermaltake Meka G1, Rosewill, etc.)

They do not use Costar or iOne as an OEM (but I can't say who.)

The cherry stabilizers are just fine. Some folks may complain about them &/or not like them as much as costar stabilizers but when you're new to mechanicals, they will still feel superior to non-mechanical keyboards.

The DK90** products are higher quality then the DK10** products, but both lines are still good since the DK10** was revamped almost 2 years ago.


----------



## silat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hersheyx*
> 
> What is so great about Ducky? Who is their OEM? All I know is they use cherry stabilizers which are inferior to costar. Is ducky quality really high, how does it compare to WASD, the old Das, Filco


I believe that is a matter of opinion. I personally like the Cherry stabs.


----------



## KipH

I am very slightly intrigued by this. What is this white switch? :
Quote:


> 凸0凸 *** COOL
> By 2012, this Christmas, does the Devil be happy!!!
> 
> DECK 82 ~ white light white shaft and white steel plate DECK collection index x 10!! Convex convex ***** 0 COOL




Oh who am I kidding. SHUT UP AND TAKE MY $$$$$$


----------



## SolidSnakeUS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Ducky's quality is on par with Costar made products (Filco, "old" Das, WASD, Thermaltake Meka G1, Rosewill, etc.)
> 
> They do not use Costar or iOne as an OEM (but I can't say who.)
> 
> The cherry stabilizers are just fine. Some folks may complain about them &/or not like them as much as costar stabilizers but when you're new to mechanicals, they will still feel superior to non-mechanical keyboards.
> 
> The DK90** products are higher quality then the DK10** products, but both lines are still good since the DK10** was revamped almost 2 years ago.


So basically Costars would be perfectly fine for a first time buyer of mechanical keyboards?


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SolidSnakeUS*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Ducky's quality is on par with Costar made products (Filco, "old" Das, WASD, Thermaltake Meka G1, Rosewill, etc.)
> 
> They do not use Costar or iOne as an OEM (but I can't say who.)
> 
> The cherry stabilizers are just fine. Some folks may complain about them &/or not like them as much as costar stabilizers but when you're new to mechanicals, they will still feel superior to non-mechanical keyboards.
> 
> The DK90** products are higher quality then the DK10** products, but both lines are still good since the DK10** was revamped almost 2 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> So basically Costars would be perfectly fine for a first time buyer of mechanical keyboards?
Click to expand...

Absolutely.


----------



## SolidSnakeUS

I will say, one guy on Geekhack is really trying his damnedest to get me to start out with a Ducky because of the Cherry Stabilizers instead of the Costars that are in the CM Storm keyboards (e.g. Trigger) or Rosewill boards.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Ducky's quality is on par with Costar made products (Filco, "old" Das, WASD, Thermaltake Meka G1, Rosewill, etc.)
> 
> They do not use Costar or iOne as an OEM (but I can't say who.)
> 
> The cherry stabilizers are just fine. Some folks may complain about them &/or not like them as much as costar stabilizers but when you're new to mechanicals, they will still feel superior to non-mechanical keyboards.
> 
> The DK90** products are higher quality then the DK10** products, but both lines are still good since the DK10** was revamped almost 2 years ago.


I keep on hearing things about the cherry stabilizers feeling "mushy".

IIRC a few people have said that they're superior compared to the Costar stabilizers on Geekhack.


----------



## ripster

Don't listen to Geekhack dude. Bunch of noobs.



The differences are there but overblown. I call this McRip effect.


----------



## SolidSnakeUS

So you think it would be perfectly fine if I went with a CM Storm Trigger at $90?


----------



## magna224

I tried the trigger and I didn't like it. I thought it had too much case flex and I didn't like the way the keycaps made the switches feel. It was on sale at frys electronics for $90 at that time but I still don't think that it is worth it.


----------



## SolidSnakeUS

I know the new Quickfire TK has a steel backplate in it, but I'm still iffy on that kind of design. I mean, I'm happy it's not tenkeyless, but the combo of the keypad and arrow keys is weird...

This may sound really stupid, but I'm really happy the Ducky Shine's (and Shine II's) have a dedicated calculator button lol.


----------



## Tator Tot

People who find a huge difference between Costar & Cherry stabilizers are the ones who need to have something to complain about.


----------



## ripster

Exactly!

Geekhackers are so bored they worry about McRip effects like Ping!

http://geekhack.org/index.php?&topic=37624.0


----------



## Tarnix

Hello key bashers









I'm stretching out of my usual "hangout" threads~

If all goes well I will be getting a WASD custom keyboard in a few months (because they're pricy, but I have a reason to go custom; uncommon keymap):



Spoiler: Keyboard layout WIP

















Spoiler: Bépo layout map















I'm a first-time mechanical keyboard buyer, and I'm unsure about the cherry keys I want. I hesitate between Cherry Blue and Brown.

I currently own a Logitech Wave keyboard, and this thing needs a hammer to type... So as long as I can type without too much effort, I'm fine.I do game from time to time, but I don't play games that needs extensive use of double-tap. I also want a relatively quiet keyboard

I am adding o-rings to the lot; anyone got suggestions/comments about the size of them (50A 0.4mm, 40A 0.4mm and 40A 0.2mm)?


----------



## 4514kaiser

I'm using a Maxkeyboard with Brown cherry's and Black O rings (0.4mm, hard ones WASD) and loving them, I would however strongly recommend you get a wrist rest say a Filco or Ducky.... I personnel have the Large Flico wrist rest and its great but a tad price hard to justify spending 90AUD inc. shipping on a wrist rest regardless of how good it is ( it should be a lot cheaper elsewhere around the world)

Back to the question I guess it really imo comes down to whether you like noisy typing, the fact that you are getting O rings suggest to me that you would rather have a quite keyboard thus i would happy recommend brown cherry's for the obvious reason......... However regardless of what you get i'm sure you will enjoy the change!

GL


----------



## entreri00

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster*
> 
> Exactly!
> Geekhackers are so bored they worry about McRip effects like Ping!
> http://geekhack.org/index.php?&topic=37624.0


No workie. Off limits even if you log in. I notice Model Fs I have ping. It's like worrying about the sound of ricochets while ignoring the sound of the gunfire.


----------



## Tarnix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4514kaiser*
> 
> I'm using a Maxkeyboard with Brown cherry's and Black O rings (0.4mm, hard ones WASD) and loving them, I would however strongly recommend you get a wrist rest say a Filco or Ducky.... I personnel have the Large Flico wrist rest and its great but a tad price hard to justify spending 90AUD inc. shipping on a wrist rest regardless of how good it is ( it should be a lot cheaper elsewhere around the world)
> 
> Back to the question I guess it really imo comes down to whether you like noisy typing, the fact that you are getting O rings suggest to me that you would rather have a quite keyboard thus i would happy recommend brown cherry's for the obvious reason......... However regardless of what you get i'm sure you will enjoy the change!
> 
> GL


Aah, yes, I forgot to mention the wrist rest. I am ordering one with the keyboard as well, since I used one I can't go without.
About the switches, yes; I considered the brown for the lack of double-tap issue and the noise, but I just hope I'm not going to miss out on anything the blue offers.


----------



## fluxlite

It has long been a problem that few shops have mechanical boards out on show for consumers to try different keyswitches, and even if they have, it's usually only blue and black.

If you want quiet then adding orings to blue switches actually only makes a slight difference to noise (only if you're used to not bottoming out).


----------



## Tarnix

I watched some Youtube videos, I'll go with Blues. I like silent, but in respect to my habit to contradict (?!) myself, I like the clicky sound it does. "Silent" switches still makes some noise when typing, so might as well get a pleasant one.


----------



## kedaami

How are WASD keyboards in terms of build quality?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kedaami*
> 
> How are WASD keyboards in terms of build quality?


At the top with Ducky, Filco, and a few others.


----------



## kedaami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> At the top with Ducky, Filco, and a few others.


And what might those few others be?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kedaami*
> 
> And what might those few others be?


Old Das Professional keyboards made by Costar, the Thermaltake MEKA G1, Zowie Gear's board, Mionix Zibal 60, and a few other guys who have their boards made by Costar.

WASD, Thermaltake (only the MEKA G1), Zowie Bear Celaritis, Mionix Zibal 60, Filco, & Das keyboards are all made by Costar.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Old Das Professional keyboards made by Costar, the Thermaltake MEKA G1, Zowie Gear's board, Mionix Zibal 60, and a few other guys who have their boards made by Costar.
> 
> WASD, Thermaltake (only the MEKA G1), Zowie Bear Celaritis, Mionix Zibal 60, Filco, & Das keyboards are all made by Costar.


And then there's Realforce.







And the KMAC (Korean custom keyboards).


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> And then there's Realforce.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the KMAC (Korean custom keyboards).


Well, above them in Cherry MX is also Deck; but those are all $200+ Keyboards and most folks won't even consider them.

I'd say the new Matias Quiet Pro is on par with those Costar boards as well.


----------



## avalonmabi

I've been lurking the forums this past week and wanted to thank everyone for all the info. Finally took the plunge and bought a Ducky Shine II Brown Cherry MX with blue LED. Will update once I get it and my experience with it as a mechanical keyboard virgin.







Now need to look for a mouse mouse pad.


----------



## kedaami

My Ducky Shine II with red LEDs and MX Blue switches arrived today


----------



## Sno

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kedaami*
> 
> My Ducky Shine II with red LEDs and MX Blue switches arrived today


Very nice.

I think I've decided on a Ducky Shine II with Browns and white or red LEDS.

Well when they are back in stock.


----------



## Bun-Bun

After much reading and hating on my Razer Black Widow I pulled the trigger on a Ducky Shine with MX Red's.

MUCH better than the Black Widow and its MX Blues for me. Quiter and much more predictable activation.

However the left shift, win, and alt keys have a scraping sound when depressing them and the win key sometimes gets stuck. The space bar when pressed from the left side and center also sounds/feels this way but on the right side its fine. Every other key on the keyboard is perfect. When I pull off the key caps the switch itself feels fine but I put the key cap back on and its scraping and sticky again.

Anyone have any ideas or a fix I could do? After dropping $170 CAD (plus $17 over the border) I would hate to have to return it.


----------



## naelus

I always wanted a mechanical kb ever since I saw one and am about to buy one but I can't decide between blue's or browns, I game a lot and type a lot, these are the two I'm looking at: http://www.tankguys.com/mechnical-keyboards/cherry-mx-blue-switches/ducky-keyboard-mx-overclock-net-edition-blue-abs-2.html
http://www.tankguys.com/mechnical-keyboards/cherry-mx-brown-switches/ducky-keyboard-mx-overclock-net-edition-brown-abs-1.html
which one should I pick I'm so conflicted lol?
Edit: ordered the mx browns one, hopefully the right choice


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bun-Bun*
> 
> After much reading and hating on my Razer Black Widow I pulled the trigger on a Ducky Shine with MX Red's.
> 
> MUCH better than the Black Widow and its MX Blues for me. Quiter and much more predictable activation.
> 
> However the left shift, win, and alt keys have a scraping sound when depressing them and the win key sometimes gets stuck. The space bar when pressed from the left side and center also sounds/feels this way but on the right side its fine. Every other key on the keyboard is perfect. When I pull off the key caps the switch itself feels fine but I put the key cap back on and its scraping and sticky again.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas or a fix I could do? After dropping $170 CAD (plus $17 over the border) I would hate to have to return it.


Take the caps off and press the switches down, do the switches also scrape?


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Take the caps off and press the switches down, do the switches also scrape?


It probably needs some lube. if you have a silicon grease or nonconducting lube, that would probably help. Or o-rings may help too.


----------



## Bun-Bun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Take the caps off and press the switches down, do the switches also scrape?


As it says in my original post. Taking the key caps off the switches themselves feel fine. They do not scrape and pop back properly.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bun-Bun*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Take the caps off and press the switches down, do the switches also scrape?
> 
> 
> 
> As it says in my original post. Taking the key caps off the switches themselves feel fine. They do not scrape and pop back properly.
Click to expand...

Did not see that part *headdesk*.

I was going to suggest sanding the edge of the caps down slightly but I'm not convinced that would remedy the windows key getting stuck.


----------



## Bun-Bun

What edges? Looking around the key caps nothing touches the outside of the key.

Seems to me the stem of the key cap could be rubbing inside the switch. But there is not a lot of material there to sand down.


----------



## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bun-Bun*
> 
> After much reading and hating on my Razer Black Widow I pulled the trigger on a Ducky Shine with MX Red's.
> 
> MUCH better than the Black Widow and its MX Blues for me. Quiter and much more predictable activation.
> 
> However the left shift, win, and alt keys have a scraping sound when depressing them and the win key sometimes gets stuck. The space bar when pressed from the left side and center also sounds/feels this way but on the right side its fine. Every other key on the keyboard is perfect. When I pull off the key caps the switch itself feels fine but I put the key cap back on and its scraping and sticky again.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas or a fix I could do? After dropping $170 CAD (plus $17 over the border) I would hate to have to return it.





http://imgur.com/a


A little overkill. Easier to just RMA.


----------



## Bun-Bun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster*
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a
> 
> A little overkill. Easier to just RMA.


I am not sure what you are talking about? Bending what wire? The alt, win keys have no stabilizers on them.

Also your link shows a razer key? I am talking about a Ducky.


----------



## Paradigm84

Get voting for the November Keyboard of the Month here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1333334/keyboard-of-the-month-november


----------



## Bun-Bun

Ok I just noticed. The bottom of the keyboard is deformed a little bit. Towards the left side the outer caseing deforms towards the keys on the left bottom side. So when pushing straight down on the keys the bottom edges rub against the caseing.

So at this point RMA is my only recourse not?


----------



## ripster

You can try a RicerCar Flex to correct a warped looking keyboard.



http://imgur.com/a


----------



## remedyhalopc

my friend is looking for a brown switch board, and newegg has the QFPro for $55 after rebate. I've heard great things about the QFR, but barely anything on the QFP. Worth it?

EDIT: some more searching has uncovered that they use iOne as their manufacturer! that explains that.

EDIT 2: okay new question. What's the difference between a plate mounted switch. and a pcb mounted one? I assume plate mounted means that the switches are soldered onto the board, whereas with the pcb i have no clue. I think the PCBs would be more modifiable because you wouldn't have to solder.


----------



## 4514kaiser

Had a quick question for some one more knowledgeable than me my Maxkeyboard with brown switchers & 50A WASD O-rings sometimes get a sticky key...... its rather hot at the moment where i live could this be caused by the O rings or is it just a slightly faulty keyboard or could it be the drivers?


----------



## Bun-Bun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ripster*
> 
> You can try a RicerCar Flex to correct a warped looking keyboard.
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a


Tried that didn't work. So I took it one more step.

Used my heat gun to make the plastic plyable and used a flat screwdriver to deform the plastic away from the keys. Once I got the technique down it worked rather well and now all my keys work perfect. Well left shift is still a bit mushy but I can live with it. I don't notice it during regular use.

However while using the heat gun before I figured out the technique I melted the plastic a bit. So it's all bubbly and ugly looking. Guess I voided my warranty now. Think its possible to get a replacement caseing from ducky? Or any techniques I could use to smooth it over a bit? Doesn't affect the use of the keyboard so I will live with it if I have to but would like it to look a little nicer lol.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *remedyhalopc*
> 
> my friend is looking for a brown switch board, and newegg has the QFPro for $55 after rebate. I've heard great things about the QFR, but barely anything on the QFP. Worth it?
> EDIT: some more searching has uncovered that they use iOne as their manufacturer! that explains that.
> EDIT 2: okay new question. What's the difference between a plate mounted switch. and a pcb mounted one? I assume plate mounted means that the switches are soldered onto the board, whereas with the pcb i have no clue. I think the PCBs would be more modifiable because you wouldn't have to solder.


Quick Fire Pro is worth it for $55 shipped. It's a decent keyboard, but I wouldn't pay more than $60 for it.

As for Plate vs PCB, both types of switches are soldered to a PCB (printed circuit board) but the plate mounted switches are mounted to a steel or aluminum plate which gives the board more rigidity.

PCB mounted switches are mounted to the PCB, so heavy typing will cause the PCB to flex in some. Not really a concern and can sometimes be seen as a benefit since the keys don't clack against a PCB so they're a bit quieter.


----------



## AlexGost

Is there anybody who has the qpad keyboard? What kind of keycap plastics it has? ABS or PBT?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlexGost*
> 
> Is there anybody who has the qpad keyboard? What kind of keycap plastics it has? ABS or PBT?


ABS


----------



## Cyclonic

Is there any news from corsair ? If they going to update the k90 and k60?


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manyak*
> 
> Laser etched keys are...well...the name says it all. They feel a bit scratchy. The process works best on light colored keys because the letter _always_ comes out black, since that's the color of burnt plastic. So when it's used on black keys, a paint filler is poured into it, as is done with the keyboards like the Das Model S


I worked as an intern this summer in a company that made laser etching machines.
An engineer there explained too me that laser etching didn't always make a "chasm", evaporate the metals or plastics. But could as well, depending on the plastic used (and the settings of the laser etching machine), bubble when heated by the laser and create a clean relief that stands out (like on my 6Gv2).
The color of that relief depended also on the material and settings, but could easily be made so that it would be in strong contrast with the surface. Like very white relief on black plastic.

He used higher intensity lasers to create chasms in metals, I guess it is the same principle for plastics.

So in conclusion the letter doens't _always_ come out black.


----------



## Fallout323f

is this a Mechanical Keyboard?

model no. sk-2501


----------



## FoxWolf1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fallout323f*
> 
> 
> is this a Mechanical Keyboard?
> model no. sk-2501


I see domes...


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fallout323f*
> 
> 
> is this a Mechanical Keyboard?
> model no. sk-2501


I took apart an old membrane keyboard and it looked just like that. I'm going with rubber dome or membrane.


----------



## Fallout323f

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FoxWolf1*
> 
> I see domes...


Tought that i had made a find here on my attic.
Oh wel keep on looking like they say.


----------



## 161029

Now that I've built a computer I can finally use my Filco.









Anybody else excited for the WASD V2?


----------



## xaeonit

I'm looking to buy a mechanical keyboard from a shop that ships to europe.
If possible I'd like cherry brown (or red).
I was looking for something under 100 euros, but I couldnìt find anything. Is there really nothing under 100 euros?
The only choices I found are filcos and the g 710+, but both are 150 euros.
If anyone could point me to a shop that sells a good mechanical kb (brown or red) for under 100 euros would be really appreciated, else which would be better for that price, the filco or the g710+?


----------



## Artifact

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xaeonit*
> 
> I'm looking to buy a mechanical keyboard from a shop that ships to europe.
> If possible I'd like cherry brown (or red).
> I was looking for something under 100 euros, but I couldnìt find anything. Is there really nothing under 100 euros?
> The only choices I found are filcos and the g 710+, but both are 150 euros.
> If anyone could point me to a shop that sells a good mechanical kb (brown or red) for under 100 euros would be really appreciated, else which would be better for that price, the filco or the g710+?


cmstore.eu
wasdkeyboards.com
mechanicalkeyboards.com
priceminister.com
amazon.?? (the one that ships to your country)

You didn't look very hard did you?


----------



## ripster

Congrats! The OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide is now included at Reddit's Keyboard Wiki.

http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/wiki/mechanical_keyboard_overviews


----------



## xaeonit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artifact*
> 
> cmstore.eu
> wasdkeyboards.com
> mechanicalkeyboards.com
> priceminister.com
> amazon.?? (the one that ships to your country)
> You didn't look very hard did you?


Thank you for the reply but I'm (almost) back to the starting point.
Amazon has either flicos or black/blue switches only.
wasd and mech .com sell both for 150+ euros, since it's 50 dollars for shipping, the same for duckies I looked for. ( I also had some problems before with shops outside europe)
I agree tho to have missed the cmstore, and the QFR red looks very tempting.


----------



## -Frostbite-

Heard the new Quickfire TK was pretty good.


----------



## eTheBlack

A lot of great keyboards, I like MK-85 with Red switches
http://www.qpad.com/products/keyboards/mk-85/

but shame there is no South Slavic layout :/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#South_Slavic_Latin

Do anyone know any mechanical keyboard with that layout? Or is possible to make custom layout? Similar to WASD keyboards, but as I saw on their website they don't support special character as ČĆŽŠĐ


----------



## ACMH-K

I realize that the build quality and poor customer service I hear about, that comes with Mad Catz S.T.R.I.K.E. 7 sucks.
Is there anything that can come close to going toe to toe with the amount of features it provides? And is a mechanical keyboard also.
I have never had a mechanical keyboard before, so the type of mechanical switch won't contribute to a deal breaker.

What is important is having a lot of features built in. ie. media screen, macro keys, media keys, all areas backlit (preferably green but a color wheel would be better), sick wrist rest, and customizable profiles.

I currently have a Logitech G510 and love the features of it so I certainly do not want to down grade even though I will be upgrading to mechanical.

I've read some posts and reviews about how
"dome switches feel like your trying to run on a dry beach & that mechanical keys are like running on an Olympic track". (Thought this analogy up myself. Pretty good right?)
I can only imagine what a mechanical one is like with the analogies I've heard.

Any suggestions?
Has anyone heard about anything coming to the #CES2013 show?
Thanks in Advance


----------



## Saberfang

Anyone here use MX blue for gaming? How is it going with the issue on double tapping?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Saberfang*
> 
> Anyone here use MX blue for gaming? How is it going with the issue on double tapping?


I personally can't do it. I know Crazy says it's not too much of an issue for him, but the small difference always trips me up.

If you're really worried about it and you have a Microcenter, Fry's, Tiger Direct, NCIX or other retail location where you can try the BlackWidow (Razer's keyboard, which has the arrow keys always available to try even while in the box) and that should tell you if it'll be an issue for you or not.


----------



## Crazy9000

It's not really double tapping that I have trouble with on blues, it's playing in general. In a game like "counterstrike", it's fairly common you want to peek around a corner, then go back really quickly. If I'm hitting "right" to look around the corner, I unconsciously must not lift all the way off of the "left" key. Normally that wouldn't be a problem, and may even be desirable if it really makes the key hit a little quicker (probably doesn't really make much difference lol). With MX blues though, this makes it so the "left" press never registers, and I'm left just standing there.

Also gameplay in general feels "sluggish", so I couldn't stand to use MX Blues enough to even attempt to change my habits. That being said, it seems to be fairly rare that people really end up with problems. There isn't any good studies, but tons of people bought the black widow and other mainstream gaming boards with Blues, and there have not been a large number of complaints about playing with the switches.


----------



## DaClownie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> It's not really double tapping that I have trouble with on blues, it's playing in general. In a game like "counterstrike", it's fairly common you want to peek around a corner, then go back really quickly. If I'm hitting "right" to look around the corner, I unconsciously must not lift all the way off of the "left" key. Normally that wouldn't be a problem, and may even be desirable if it really makes the key hit a little quicker (probably doesn't really make much difference lol). With MX blues though, this makes it so the "left" press never registers, and I'm left just standing there.
> 
> Also gameplay in general feels "sluggish", so I couldn't stand to use MX Blues enough to even attempt to change my habits. That being said, it seems to be fairly rare that people really end up with problems. There isn't any good studies, but tons of people bought the black widow and other mainstream gaming boards with Blues, and there have not been a large number of complaints about playing with the switches.


I hear you on that. When I first started gaming on my blackwidow, it was tough to get used to because apparently with rubber domes I "drag" my fingers when I'm doing that exact sort of move. I'd go to peek a corner, slide back, and keep on strafing past the corner into harm's way because I never actually let go of the key all the way. After about a week though, I had trained myself not to do it. I still prefer my browns for gaming, and think the reds would be even better if this keyboard wasn't promised to someone else, but you adapt rather easily I'd say.


----------



## Saberfang

Well, I think I should ponder more about the Razer Blackwidow Tournament edition I wanna get then. Actually I really love the feedback MX blues give and I don't think I'm used to keep keys pressed on my actual rubber dome keyobard , I've never noticed to be honest, but still the double tapping kinda worry me. I can try to wait some week and see if the the "stealth edition" with MX browns get available in the store where I'm going to get it but still the box will be sealed and I won't get the chance to test the switches first hand


----------



## DaClownie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Saberfang*
> 
> Well, I think I should ponder more about the Razer Blackwidow Tournament edition I wanna get then. Actually I really love the feedback MX blues give and I don't think I'm used to keep keys pressed on my actual rubber dome keyobard , I've never noticed to be honest, but still the double tapping kinda worry me. I can try to wait some week and see if the the "stealth edition" with MX browns get available in the store where I'm going to get it but still the box will be sealed and I won't get the chance to test the switches first hand


If it's anything like the packaging of the normal BlackWidow keyboards, then the arrow keys are exposed so you can feel the switch.


----------



## Tator Tot

MX-Blue's are supposed to be 50cN switches; but personally I'm in the heavy switch crowd.

Some Alps, MX-Clears, MX-Blacks, & Buckling Springs are my kinda thing. Any lighter than 55cN and I feel they are too light; but I am constantly working with my hands on a day to day basis. So my finger strength is definitely up there.


----------



## Saberfang

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaClownie*
> 
> If it's anything like the packaging of the normal BlackWidow keyboards, then the arrow keys are exposed so you can feel the switch.


No, it's not







I saw an unboxing video and it's inside a box and a velvet bag


----------



## DaClownie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> MX-Blue's are supposed to be 50cN switches; but personally I'm in the heavy switch crowd.
> 
> Some Alps, MX-Clears, MX-Blacks, & Buckling Springs are my kinda thing. Any lighter than 55cN and I feel they are too light; but I am constantly working with my hands on a day to day basis. So my finger strength is definitely up there.




I would imagine your fingers are very strong.


----------



## jasonwilks

After using the different type of key switches for awhile I am starting to realize that the blacks and reds are worthless and even gamers should definitely use the browns or blues only. I see others are agreeing on this too, like from this article here: http://www.yurtopic.com/tech/gadgets/cherry-mx.html


----------



## bottleofboos

So I tried the deep cleaning method, and it seems a few keys aren't as responsive as they used to be. I left the keyboard to dry for 2 days before puting the keyboard back together. Hopefully, this will go away later on. I don't have the funds to buy another mechanical keyboard T_T. It's also very annoying tapping the unresponsive keys to get them to input.


----------



## kyismaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bottleofboos*
> 
> So I tried the deep cleaning method, and it seems a few keys aren't as responsive as they used to be. I left the keyboard to dry for 2 days before puting the keyboard back together. Hopefully, this will go away later on. I don't have the funds to buy another mechanical keyboard T_T. It's also very annoying tapping the unresponsive keys to get them to input.


you dish washed it ?
Sorry man i'll find you something when i can


----------



## kyismaster

It
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Frostbite-*
> 
> Heard the new Quickfire TK was pretty good.


it is i got one


----------



## bottleofboos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyismaster*
> 
> you dish washed it ?
> Sorry man i'll find you something when i can


Nope, I only dunked it in distilled water. Only the key caps were in the soap bath.


----------



## willywill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> MX-Blue's are supposed to be 50cN switches; but personally I'm in the heavy switch crowd.
> 
> Some Alps, MX-Clears, MX-Blacks, & Buckling Springs are my kinda thing. Any lighter than 55cN and I feel they are too light; but I am constantly working with my hands on a day to day basis. So my finger strength is definitely up there.


Am like that myself, i just bought a IBM Model M and i stop using it, its that good mainly because the keys are stiffer. Quick question have you play with Cherry MX Green switches as much as i love the Model M, I want a tenkeyless keyboard


----------



## kyismaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willywill*
> 
> Am like that myself, i just bought a IBM Model M and i stop using it, its that good mainly because the keys are stiffer. Quick question have you play with Cherry MX Green switches as much as i love the Model M, I and a tenkeyless keyboard


god i need glasses, thought that said you stopped using your laptop because the mechanical keys were too hard to press.

in my head " damn thats one big laptop lol"


----------



## BoredErica

Are blues really the best when it comes to typing? I do some gaming and some typing, and I do like the sound of blues. However, blue led Duckys non-tenkeyless is as rare as... a blue moon. Standard brown switches seem more plausible... I have never tried browns though.


----------



## kyismaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> Are blues really the best when it comes to typing? I do some gaming and some typing, and I do like the sound of blues. However, blue led Duckys non-tenkeyless is as rare as... a blue moon. Standard brown switches seem more plausible... I have never tried browns though.


not that rare, was a few in the ocn market place for a long time


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyismaster*
> 
> not that rare, was a few in the ocn market place for a long time


Ok, I'll look around there. It has been out of stock from TigerImports for so long while the others ones were in stock. Do you think blues would be OK for some gaming? (Coming out from a rubber dome.)









Can't find it on the marketplace, but I'll keep a lookout.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willywill*
> 
> Am like that myself, i just bought a IBM Model M and i stop using it, its that good mainly because the keys are stiffer. Quick question have you play with Cherry MX Green switches as much as i love the Model M, I want a tenkeyless keyboard


Greens are better than Blues, but the click and smoothness of the switch is still the same. So they still sound cheap and they're not nearly as crisp as the buckling springs of even the worst Model M.

So clicky vs clicky, Buckling Springs are still in a league of their own.

Out of the different alps (good, bad, old, new) & cherry MX clicky switches; greens definitely have the best feal. Though, the weight of the switch may be a limitation to some.


----------



## nyk20z3

I have Cherry Reds on my Corsair K60 and although they are loud i have grown use to them for gaming and typing just fine.


----------



## BoredErica

Would I need a wrist pad? My keyboard kindda has one attached, but I don't recalling having problems without one when I go to the library.


----------



## Tarnix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Now that I've built a computer I can finally use my Filco.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Anybody else excited for the WASD V2?*


I just looked it up, Looks like I'll keep saving and buy one at day 0. I was about to buy my WASD this month, but it might be worth waiting.


----------



## willywill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Greens are better than Blues, but the click and smoothness of the switch is still the same. So they still sound cheap and they're not nearly as crisp as the buckling springs of even the worst Model M.
> 
> So clicky vs clicky, Buckling Springs are still in a league of their own.
> 
> Out of the different alps (good, bad, old, new) & cherry MX clicky switches; greens definitely have the best feal. Though, the weight of the switch may be a limitation to some.


I already wasted to much money on mechanical keyboards and the cheapest one is the one i used the most, i bought the IBM Model M for $20. I wanted to try greens switches but there no point of that since the buckling Springs are better. I also have a old Dell AT101W might give it away here on the forum


----------



## M3T4LM4N222

What switch would someone suggest for typing and gaming? I type 75WPM on average and I love blues, however they're simply too loud.


----------



## atarione

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3T4LM4N222*
> 
> What switch would someone suggest for typing and gaming? I type 75WPM on average and I love blues, however they're simply too loud.


browns with dampers ..that is what i am using, I have a WASD V1 w/ mx brown switches and the 40A-L (.2mm) dampers it is a delight for typing and gaming for me.

I tried some blue keyboards out at fry's and i liked them but the noise was just too much for me ...so i decided on browns and I am very pleased with this choice and with the choice to get the dampers on mine.


----------



## M3T4LM4N222

Where could I find a MX Brown keyboard that costs $65 or less.


----------



## BoredErica

Rosewill should have an option that fits your bill. At $80 you can get Coolermaster Trigger with black switches, red LED, tons of macro keys and good build quality though. (It's a sale)


----------



## M3T4LM4N222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> Rosewill should have an option that fits your bill. At $80 you can get Coolermaster Trigger with black switches, red LED, tons of macro keys and good build quality though. (It's a sale)


Links? I can't seem to find any such deals. Prefer some place that can take PayPal which unfortunately throws out Amazon :"(


----------



## willywill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3T4LM4N222*
> 
> Links? I can't seem to find any such deals. Prefer some place that can take PayPal which unfortunately throws out Amazon :"(


There you go its tenkekyless but the space saving will be more comfortable when using the mouse
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=cart_view


----------



## BoredErica

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=7777bc3c17029328d03146e0ed767841&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overclock.net%2Ft%2F1348199%2Fducky-or-cheaper-alternative&v=1&libid=1358120691130&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FProduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16823129009%26nm_mc%3DKNC-GoogleAdwords%26cm_mmc%3DKNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-NA-_-NA%26gclid%3DCOO_0dC-4LQCFQ-f4AodsSYAUw&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overclock.net%2Ft%2F1348199%2Fducky-or-cheaper-alternative%2F10&title=Ducky%20or%20Cheaper%20Alternative%3F&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FProduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16823129009%26amp%3Bnm_mc%3DKNC-GoogleAdwords%26amp%3Bcm_mmc%3DKNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pl...&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13581206908282

For Rosewill, check Newegg.


----------



## M3T4LM4N222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willywill*
> 
> There you go its tenkekyless but the space saving will be more comfortable when using the mouse
> http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=cart_view


It won't show up if you direct me to the cart


----------



## willywill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3T4LM4N222*
> 
> It won't show up if you direct me to the cart


LOL sorry about that, here it is
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=72

Newegg also have it and take Paypal
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823129005


----------



## M3T4LM4N222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willywill*
> 
> LOL sorry about that, here it is
> http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=72
> 
> Newegg also have it and take Paypal
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823129005


I love that keyboard - but I hate the idea of shelling out $80 for it. I don't understand why the MX Blue version is $15 less.


----------



## BoredErica

Newegg loves to change prices across keys. The CM CT for example, was $70 for blacks, $100 for browns plus free shipping, $110? For blues, etc.


----------



## bige83

So why did they Discontinue the Rosewill Illuminated RK-9100? I contracted Newegg they said they wouldn't get anymore in and that its Discontinued







. Anyone know where I could pick up one been looking for a bit now thanks


----------



## BoredErica

How much is that one?


----------



## bige83

think it was 110 but think I am going with a Max Keyboard Nighthawk X7


----------



## BoredErica

I just bought the CM Trigger with red led, macro keys, browns. $100 free shipping. The blacks were $70 (not free shipping). Greeeeaaat deal but I wanna type with browns.


----------



## M3T4LM4N222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> I just bought the CM Trigger with red led, macro keys, browns. $100 free shipping. The blacks were $70 (not free shipping). Greeeeaaat deal but I wanna type with browns.


How are they vs blues sound wise? Do they make a lot of noise???


----------



## BoredErica

Loud is kind of relative and varies depending on opinion...
Blues are noisier than the browns, blues have a clickity noise in addition, whereas the brown sound is a little lower and more quiet. The typing experience is also slightly different, refer to the mechanical keyboard sticky ofn this forum section.


----------



## sammkv

I've had about two weeks to try out the blues and it is very loud. Returning my mx blue keyboard because I just miss the tenkeyless. I might try to get a TKL with cherry blues or brown.


----------



## BoredErica

When I used the blues, I was fine with it. I quite liked it.


----------



## M3T4LM4N222

It's not that I don't like blues - in fact I love them! It's just the noise is a bit much. I've never personally used browns but from their description it seems like they'd be the best switches for gaming and typing and it doesn't sound like they have the loud clicks that the blues do. Unfortunately I cannot find any keyboards with browns for lower than $80. I'm even finding blacks for much less.


----------



## willywill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bige83*
> 
> So why did they Discontinue the Rosewill Illuminated RK-9100? I contracted Newegg they said they wouldn't get anymore in and that its Discontinued
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Anyone know where I could pick up one been looking for a bit now thanks


That model will get replace by the Helios RK-9200, the only way of getting one is by second hand


----------



## BoredErica

That looks pretty nice. Wonder what price...


----------



## OverClocker55

About to buy the Ducky MX Overclock.net Edition Red keyboard. Should I get TKL or normal?


----------



## Tarnix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OverClocker55*
> 
> About to buy the Ducky MX Overclock.net Edition Red keyboard. Should I get TKL or normal?


The question should be "Do I use the numpad every time I type". Then you should have your answer.


----------



## OverClocker55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tarnix*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *OverClocker55*
> 
> About to buy the Ducky MX Overclock.net Edition Red keyboard. Should I get TKL or normal?
> 
> 
> 
> The question should be "Do I use the numpad every time I type". Then you should have your answer.
Click to expand...

Use it a bit. Guess I'll get it. BTW blues,reds,blacks or browns?


----------



## nyk20z3

I was under the assumption Cherry MX Red where the best but they are are decently loud.

After some further reading it seems they are typically the most expensive because they are hard to find ?


----------



## OverClocker55

Blues are the loudest I'm pretty sure.


----------



## Tarnix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OverClocker55*
> 
> Use it a bit. Guess I'll get it. BTW blues,reds,blacks or browns?


After much debating, pondering and reading, I decided I was going to buy browns with pads, because the noise of my dome keyboard is almost as loud as a mechanical one and I'm getting a bit annoyed over it.

My personal take on the switches:

I'm not a "mindless" _keybasher_.
I want to reduce noise where I can
I want a good typing experience
No tactical feeling sorta defeats the purpose of buying a 100$ keyboard when you can buy 3 identical dome keyboards for that price and get a "similar" life length
So brown it is.


----------



## BoredErica

The normal version of the keyboard has an extra 4 keys though, keep that in mind.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> I was under the assumption Cherry MX Red where the best but they are are decently loud.
> 
> After some further reading it seems they are typically the most expensive because they are hard to find ?


There is no best switch, only ones that some people prefer over others. MX blue is the most popular, probably because it's the most obviously different from rubber dome.

Careful with anything you read about rarity on reds. They used to be almost impossible to get, but now are fairly easy to find.


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> There is no best switch, only ones that some people prefer over others. MX blue is the most popular, probably because it's the most obviously different from rubber dome.
> 
> Careful with anything you read about rarity on reds. They used to be almost impossible to get, but now are fairly easy to find.


What he said.
It's a matter of preference, it's kind of like there is a best genre of music. To you, maybe, but not to other people. Each have its own pros and cons. (Once again, refer to mechanical keyboard guide sticky on this forum section.)
Blues are loudest, clickity, liked for typing but not as much for gaming, browns is a good middle ground. Blacks and reds, I think, have no feedback as to when you've hit the key, heard it's good for double-tapping, but some don't like it as much for typing. I'm going with the browns. It's the lightest of the switches and decent for both,


----------



## bige83

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willywill*
> 
> That model will get replace by the Helios RK-9200, the only way of getting one is by second hand


Yeah I just went ahead an ordered a Max Keyboard Nighthawk X7 instead of looking for that 9100 or waiting for 9200. Maxkeyboard.com also will give you 10% off if you like them on Facebook and PM the on Facebook. The support there was great I never got my 10% off code when I PM,ed them so I just ordered it anyways and sent a email to the sales department and they took care of the 10% off with just one email cant say enough about how great this company is


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bige83*
> 
> Yeah I just went ahead an ordered a Max Keyboard Nighthawk X7 instead of looking for that 9100 or waiting for 9200. Maxkeyboard.com also will give you 10% off if you like them on Facebook and PM the on Facebook. The support there was great I never got my 10% off code when I PM,ed them so I just ordered it anyways and sent a email to the sales department and they took care of the 10% off with just one email cant say enough about how great this company is


Why led you to decide on this keyboard? Does look cool, nice wrist wrest. It's price is in the league of a Ducky II though,


----------



## willywill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bige83*
> 
> Yeah I just went ahead an ordered a Max Keyboard Nighthawk X7 instead of looking for that 9100 or waiting for 9200. Maxkeyboard.com also will give you 10% off if you like them on Facebook and PM the on Facebook. The support there was great I never got my 10% off code when I PM,ed them so I just ordered it anyways and sent a email to the sales department and they took care of the 10% off with just one email cant say enough about how great this company is


This is a better keyboard then the Rosewill, the Rosewill doesn't have the USB ports or audio ports and it cost about the same


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willywill*
> 
> This is a better keyboard then the Rosewill, the Rosewill doesn't have the USB ports or audio ports and it cost about the same


The Rosewill is a better board just based on build quality & reliability.

Nighthawk is made by iOne, a company with a dubious reputation. As well as their products.


----------



## FoxWolf1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> The Rosewill is a better board just based on build quality & reliability.
> 
> Nighthawk is made by iOne, a company with a dubious reputation. As well as their products.


'

Actually, the Max Keyboard might win this one...

Quality isn't determined by the OEM alone; it's also affected by the degree of QC that the brand has them use for their product, and the design of the product itself. And the Max Keyboards seem to be getting good reports from owners. On the other hand, Rosewills have had a history of problems, and although they claim that the issue with their USB connector design will be "fixed" for the RK-9200, they have claimed this before without it being true, so I would say to let other people test that claim before you believe it.


----------



## Tator Tot

I've already seen a number of MaxKeyboard reports being dead.

Like wise, Rosewill most likely sells in a higher volume of boards just due to the recent explosion in cherry MX boards and their deep discounts ($60 bucks for a well build Cherry MX board is hard to tangle with.)

Like wise, Rosewill's "USB Connector Issue" is one inherent with the plug but it's also a feature that folks demand.

As well, OEM's do determine the overall quality of the product since MaxKeyboard isn't on the floor of the factory checking the boards.

I have no doubt that their custom boards they ship out are probably some top notch stuff since they are the ones doing the assembly there.

iOne has proven themselves over the years to be unreliable. As evidence by the companies who have used their products and dropped them as well.

iOne is just an advantageous partner for getting into the market due to their lower than average prices as well as complete selection of products.


----------



## FoxWolf1

My impression is that maybe a handful of people have trouble with their Max Keyboards, but a substantial portion of Rosewill owners run into the USB connector issue. And if the thing is going to break, it doesn't really matter _why_ it's designed in a way that will break; broken is broken. And yes, there are other keyboards with detachable cables that don't break nearly so easily (Leopold, for instance).

Yes, OEMs do differ in general skill level, but the customer also plays a large part in determining the degree of QC performed. How much they'll pay for QC, and how closely they'll work with the OEM in revising QC procedures and seeing that the procedures that they have requested are correctly implemented, can make an enormous difference in the quality of a product. Even with a good OEM, if the customer's quality procedures are loose in the wrong place, you can wind up with a product with a recurring issue, such as the left alt issue with Cooler Master's QuickFire Rapid (a Costar board). When something like this happens, it is up to the customer to change the QC procedures used for their product. Heck, when Matias had a problem with the dampers on their switches coming loose, they went over to China and had their OEM institute a procedure of testing every switch with a certain method, to make sure that defective switches were caught and fixed or disposed of. _That_ is how you improve the quality of a product-- by _making_ your OEM get it right, not by picking a relatively good one and hoping for the best.

And of course, it doesn't matter _how_ well the keyboard is manufactured, if a design flaw means that it is doomed to break. That's the real issue here.


----------



## willywill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> I've already seen a number of MaxKeyboard reports being dead.
> 
> Like wise, Rosewill most likely sells in a higher volume of boards just due to the recent explosion in cherry MX boards and their deep discounts ($60 bucks for a well build Cherry MX board is hard to tangle with.)
> 
> Like wise, Rosewill's "USB Connector Issue" is one inherent with the plug but it's also a feature that folks demand.
> 
> As well, OEM's do determine the overall quality of the product since MaxKeyboard isn't on the floor of the factory checking the boards.
> I have no doubt that their custom boards they ship out are probably some top notch stuff since they are the ones doing the assembly there.
> iOne has proven themselves over the years to be unreliable. As evidence by the companies who have used their products and dropped them as well.
> 
> iOne is just an advantageous partner for getting into the market due to their lower than average prices as well as complete selection of products.


Its not that bad, some had one or two LED gone out but MaxKeyboard will fix it or replaced it with a new one


----------



## d-block

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willywill*
> 
> This is a better keyboard then the Rosewill, the Rosewill doesn't have the USB ports or audio ports and it cost about the same


The 9100 Rosewill does have two USB ports. The cable is also non-removable so there goes the USB plug issue. IMO Ducky KBs are too pricey for what you get. After reading several reviews of the night hawk I think it's safe to say it is a good bu too. Not everyone things Ducky is so great.


----------



## willywill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *d-block*
> 
> The 9100 Rosewill does have two USB ports. The cable is also non-removable so there goes the USB plug issue. IMO Ducky KBs are too pricey for what you get. After reading several reviews of the night hawk I think it's safe to say it is a good bu too. Not everyone things Ducky is so great.


That one but not the Rosewill Helios RK-9200, no matter what any mechanical keyboard will be a big upgrade compare to a rubber dome


----------



## TSXmike

Any one know if the lighting issues with the G710+ have been addressed yet?


----------



## Ice009

Is there a difference is quality between the CoolerMaster Quickfire and Quickfire Pro?

I'm thinking of getting a second mechanical keyboard to replace the Logitech G15 that I was using on my second computer. I bought a Filco with Cherry MX Blue switches a few months ago, but wanted to get something a little cheaper. I'm looking for a full sized keyboard.

If the Quickfire Pros aren't good quality wise, I might up the budget and get something similar in price to my Filco.

Also, which keyboards have PBT keycaps standard? Was thinking about getting some for my Filco, but not sure where to get them from and how much they cost.


----------



## Tator Tot

QuickFire Rapid, Quickfire TK, & normal Quickfire are all about the same in terms of quality but the Pro isn't as good as them.


----------



## BoredErica

The Quickfire Storm Trigger I am using was $100 free 3 day shipping on Newegg ($70 if you got the black switches). The quality is good.


----------



## zflamewing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ice009*
> 
> Is there a difference is quality between the CoolerMaster Quickfire and Quickfire Pro?
> 
> I'm thinking of getting a second mechanical keyboard to replace the Logitech G15 that I was using on my second computer. I bought a Filco with Cherry MX Blue switches a few months ago, but wanted to get something a little cheaper. I'm looking for a full sized keyboard.
> 
> If the Quickfire Pros aren't good quality wise, I might up the budget and get something similar in price to my Filco.
> 
> Also, which keyboards have PBT keycaps standard? Was thinking about getting some for my Filco, but not sure where to get them from and how much they cost.


In the CM Storm line the Trigger is an option as the price is fairly close to the QF Pro. Both have red back lighting if that matters at all.

I think the OCN edition Duky's are still available for about 90 USD. Not backlit but not a bad price for a fullsize mechanical imho.

As stated previously the the CM Storm TK might be an option if you are not going to be jumping between modes regularly.


----------



## douglatins

What is the best one these days?


----------



## zflamewing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *douglatins*
> 
> What is the best one these days?


Best in terms of?


----------



## BoredErica

Ehh, if I'm going to spend $100 or more on a keyboard, it needs to have backlighting. The Storm Trigger's 5 macro keys are cool but hard as heck to use if you want simple macros for getting to folders.


----------



## douglatins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zflamewing*
> 
> Best in terms of?


Overall, best in quality, for typing and gaming


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *douglatins*
> 
> Overall, best in quality, for typing and gaming


http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rf104&pid=xf01t0










Really though there is no "best". The only thing you can really say his better is due to build quality... everything else is preference.


----------



## BoredErica

...There isn't a "best". A lot of it is personal preference.


----------



## zflamewing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *douglatins*
> 
> Overall, best in quality, for typing and gaming


After a certain level of build quality as others have stated it's all about preference. I'm really loving MX Blues. I type mostly and my games tend to be MMO's so cool downs negate any issue with blues functionality in the double tap capacity. At work my peers that sit around me aren't overly bothered by the noise my keyboard makes so blues work well there too. I might try browns at some point and if I do I'd be tempted to toss the really stiff o-rings on them to see how quiet the keyboard can really be. So far I've been pretty happy with my Quickfire Rapid and my Ducky Shine II.


----------



## mironccr345

Does anyone have a guide or know of one to replace the springs in a mechanical keyboard?


----------



## Gubz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mironccr345*
> 
> Does anyone have a guide or know of one to replace the springs in a mechanical keyboard?






 Go to around 0:30:00.


----------



## mironccr345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gubz*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go to around 0:30:00.


Thanks! +rep!


----------



## OverClocker55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *douglatins*
> 
> Overall, best in quality, for typing and gaming
> 
> 
> 
> http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rf104&pid=xf01t0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really though there is no "best". The only thing you can really say his better is due to build quality... everything else is preference.
Click to expand...

That is so ugly


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OverClocker55*
> 
> That is so ugly


They make black models as well.


----------



## BoredErica

I ddin't go Topre (cost) or IBM Model M (looks and actuation force). Frankly, I'm fine with browns.


----------



## Zero4549

Can anyone help me identify a keyboard? I no longer have access to this board, nor do I have any pics, but I'm very curious to see if I can identify it and possibly even obtain one for myself.

The board itself was a tan color with dark brown keycaps. The keycaps were made of _steel_, as was the housing of the board.

The keycaps were also _round_ (like a typewriter, only solid on the sides instead of mushroom style). The larger keys (enter, backspace, etc) had shallow rectangular shapes with a raised circular area in the center (to match the rest of the keys).

The key layout was non-standard, but close-ish. I don't recall exactly, sorry. It used a PS/2 connection and I do not recall it having any lights.

I do not recall any markings on the board that would give clue as to the manufacturer, model, or date. This was not my keyboard however, and I have no clue as to the age, so it may well have once had stickers or print on it that have since worn off.

Any ideas?


----------



## zflamewing

that sounds like it might have been datamancer but I think their stuff is all "mushroom" type keys. Without pictures it would be really hard to identify though.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zflamewing*
> 
> that sounds like it might have been datamancer but I think their stuff is all "mushroom" type keys. Without pictures it would be really hard to identify though.


Perhaps I should elaborate. When I say no lights I mean NONE. As in no indicators for capslock, etc (in fact I don't remember if it even had a capslock).

Also, I personally used this board 8 years ago, and it was by no means a new board. I don't know exactly how old it was at the time, but it was old enough to be thrown out along with a Pentium pro system, well before mechanicals started regaining popularity.

I know it's hard without pics, but it was a very distinctive keyboard, perhaps someone has seen one before. My own Google searches couldn't find anything that looked even close.

Oh... and no it was certainly not a datamancer or any other custom job.


----------



## douglatins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zflamewing*
> 
> After a certain level of build quality as others have stated it's all about preference. I'm really loving MX Blues. I type mostly and my games tend to be MMO's so cool downs negate any issue with blues functionality in the double tap capacity. At work my peers that sit around me aren't overly bothered by the noise my keyboard makes so blues work well there too. I might try browns at some point and if I do I'd be tempted to toss the really stiff o-rings on them to see how quiet the keyboard can really be. So far I've been pretty happy with my Quickfire Rapid and my Ducky Shine II.


I cant really try out switch type, so is there a place I can buy one of each switch to get the "feels"?

What about green switch? http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5137/cm_storm_trigger_cherry_mx_green_mechanical_gaming_keyboard_review/index4.html

I dont think that this ships to Brazil, http://www.cmstore-usa.com/trigger-mechanical-gaming-keyboard-green-switch/

Anyone wants to sell it to me? I mean buy and ship it?


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *douglatins*
> 
> I cant really try out switch type, so is there a place I can buy one of each switch to get the "feels"?
> 
> What about green switch? http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5137/cm_storm_trigger_cherry_mx_green_mechanical_gaming_keyboard_review/index4.html
> 
> I dont think that this ships to Brazil, http://www.cmstore-usa.com/trigger-mechanical-gaming-keyboard-green-switch/
> 
> Anyone wants to sell it to me? I mean buy and ship it?


I love greens, it's a shame they're so hard to find.


----------



## Marin

Stopped following KB's after switching to Topre cause why bother researching when you've reached perfection.









But seriously, are there any KB's out there with Cherry switches that have a similar build to the Topre KB's?


----------



## nyk20z3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> I love greens, it's a shame they're so hard to find.


I don't understand why any of these keys would be hard to find lol

There isn't a single decent size company who makes all color switches ?


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> I don't understand why any of these keys would be hard to find lol
> 
> There isn't a single decent size company who makes all color switches ?


Sure, cherry makes the switches, but no one actually puts them in their keyboards.


----------



## Tator Tot

The issue is Cherry limits switch selection to certain areas.

Like wise, certain brands have distribution rights to certain areas (*cough CoolerMaster cough*.)

Both of those factors limit who can carry what.

Like wise, Cherry only does limited production on certain switches (MX-Green, MX-White, & MX-Clear) so they become harder to integrate into a full keyboard.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Hi there everyone!

I've recently been looking at getting a new keyboard, and have been greatly attracted by the mechanicals.
I have looked around and been reading a few reviews so far - however each one is mixed, as one can expect with something that comes down to subjectivity.

Here's what I do with my keyboard mainly (in the following order):
1. Type quite a lot of reviews and essays
2. Use my keyboard as a shortcut to access certain folders and document on my computer
3. Use media functions (such as play and next) and the volume keys
4. WASD (R and a few F keys) for gaming

I currently have the Logitech K350 - and it is quite heavy to type on it, and I would like something lighter, but also much more quiet - I'm quite a fast typist, and thus when I'm at my "max speed" my keyboard sounds like a rattling gun









I'm thus not really looking for the blue switches.

I have been looking at the black, brown (quite rare to find) and red.

So far I've been quite tempted by the Corsair K90, but also the Razer BlackWidow - as it has pretty much everything I want, which are:
-Media functions
-Programmable keys (only need 2-4) - for opening programs and folders such as outlook and folders within my PC (it can do that right?)
-A BIG enter/return button (as I quite like a big return key as I tap it with my right little pinky finger)
-Lights behind the keys (I find it visually appealing, but it isn't a big deal, but seeing as I would be spending £100 or so, I might as well have something I really like) - Preferably with customisable colous, under each key - so for WASD I could have it in red, whilst the whole keyboard is in blue - is that something possible?

I would greatly appreciate more expert and knowledgeable guidance regarding a good keyboard to choose.
Unfortunately for us in the UK, I can't for the life of me think of a place that has a try before you buy for mechanical keyboards.

Which leads me unto another point - the keyboard if you find to suggest and meets all the "keys" (pun intended) has to be available in the UK, shipped, for no greater than £150.

I will upload a mini video of how loud my K350 is









EDIT:
Here it is:


----------



## YowZ

I use a Filco Majestouch 2 Ninja with Brown switches.

Awesome keyboard.

www.keyboardco.com is a great place in the uk. also kustompcs.co.uk and overclockers.

browns themselves are quiet, but the key hitting the backplane is noisy as hell. if you get a linear switch like a red or brown, you're not gonna get the rewards of a mechanical keyboard so i'd go for the browns.

Filco and Ducky are pretty much the best mech keyboards, but they are very much no frills typing solutions, you may want to get a media controller as an addition.

Hope that helps


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YowZ*
> 
> I use a Filco Majestouch 2 Ninja with Brown switches.
> 
> Awesome keyboard.
> 
> www.keyboardco.com is a great place in the uk. also kustompcs.co.uk and overclockers.
> 
> browns themselves are quiet, but the key hitting the backplane is noisy as hell. if you get a linear switch like a red or brown, you're not gonna get the rewards of a mechanical keyboard so i'd go for the browns.
> 
> Filco and Ducky are pretty much the best mech keyboards, but they are very much no frills typing solutions, you may want to get a media controller as an addition.
> 
> Hope that helps


thanks for the help man


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YowZ*
> 
> if you get a linear switch like a red or brown, you're not gonna get the rewards of a mechanical keyboard so i'd go for the browns.


I'm going to disagree there. You just don't get tactile feedback (obviously). I happily used my Deck with MX blacks for a few years before I got a Topre. While the Blue's "bump" was awesome at first, after the novelty wore off I really stopped using that board and gave it to my sister. Now I actually find it a bit annoying to use my GF's MX Blue keyboard.

With the blacks, you get a high quality, smooth linear key press that is a vast improvement over a rubber dome keyboard. It's not a huge, in your face obvious thing like a tactile switch is, but I think any heavy typist would be able to appreciate it. Especially if you have a quality board like the Deck.

One thing I do suggest is make sure your board has the switches plate mounted. I feel that's the main difference in feel between cheap Cherry boards and the higher quality ones.


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> thanks for the help man


The Filco is nice, but not for me because of the price and lack of backlight.
CM Storm Trigger has 5 macro keys, a numpad (which I script into a macro-pad), backlight, 2 USB ports, media keys with function keys. Build quality is nice. I picked the brown switches and I think you'd want that.

You can find a brown CM Storm for $100. The black switches were going $70 for a Newegg sale a week ago!


----------



## YowZ

If I'm honest, the "bump" is what I like the most about mechanical keyboard. That and the feel that the keys are actually attached to the keyboard I'm hammering away at.
I personally really don't see the point of the blacks and the reds, if you use them for a different reason than I do, then obviously you have a reason, so please do share







.
Dubbed is after a mechanical keyboard regardless of what switch he decides to use and as I can only really speak about browns and blues, (and i'm friends with him in RL so we've spoken a fair bit) perhaps you could tell him a bit more about them so he can make an informed decision (Y).


----------



## zflamewing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YowZ*
> 
> If I'm honest, the "bump" is what I like the most about mechanical keyboard. That and the feel that the keys are actually attached to the keyboard I'm hammering away at.
> I personally really don't see the point of the blacks and the reds, if you use them for a different reason than I do, then obviously you have a reason, so please do share
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Dubbed is after a mechanical keyboard regardless of what switch he decides to use and as I can only really speak about browns and blues, (and i'm friends with him in RL so we've spoken a fair bit) perhaps you could tell him a bit more about them so he can make an informed decision (Y).


How is the tactile response of browns vs blues? I'm thinking of picking up a board with browns and I already have 2 with blues. I haven't had a chance to try browns so wanting some feed back from users of both to see if I'd like browns. I'll strill try to use a browns in person at some point hopefully.


----------



## BoredErica

I think they are about the same, blues might be a bit more. Blues make a distinct clicky sound though. I Think browns is ideal for gamers that do some typing from time to time.


----------



## YowZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zflamewing*
> 
> How is the tactile response of browns vs blues? I'm thinking of picking up a board with browns and I already have 2 with blues. I haven't had a chance to try browns so wanting some feed back from users of both to see if I'd like browns. I'll strill try to use a browns in person at some point hopefully.


they're great. I've never had the change to try blues, but as I understand it browns are the same as the blues but without the audible click of the switch engaging. very positive bump, gives you plenty of feedback.

i'll certainly agree with darkwizzie on that browns are best for gamers that do some typing. you might argue that browns are better for any gamer as you're less likely to press keys by accident and wreck whatever you're doing mid game, but I'm just playing devils advocate at this point.


----------



## zflamewing

I'll have to try harder on tracking down a brown keyboard to sample to be sure. Worst case I get my next board in blues and not really worry about browns. Thanks for the feed back


----------



## Fortunex

Blues tactile feeling is much more distinct. It's a very defined click and it takes some force to go over the bump. I'd say browns are like halfway between blues and a linear switch. The bump is much less noticeable. But I haven't used browns in a couple of months, since I got my Filco, so I'm mainly going off memory here.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

I think I know which one I would have got:
The razer blackwidow stealth edition 2013 - but of course like anything in this world that isn't available anywhere outside the usa and Canada.

That keyboard, unlike the normal version uses Brown switches


----------



## Gubz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zflamewing*
> 
> How is the tactile response of browns vs blues? I'm thinking of picking up a board with browns and I already have 2 with blues. I haven't had a chance to try browns so wanting some feed back from users of both to see if I'd like browns. I'll strill try to use a browns in person at some point hopefully.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> Blues tactile feeling is much more distinct. It's a very defined click and it takes some force to go over the bump. I'd say browns are like halfway between blues and a linear switch. The bump is much less noticeable. But I haven't used browns in a couple of months, since I got my Filco, so I'm mainly going off memory here.


^This.

First time I tried browns after using blues for around six months, I had to literally take the cap of the switch to actually see if it was brown or red.
I couldn't feel the tactile bump at all. But now after using browns for a month I'm in love. Definitely my favorite switch.


----------



## mironccr345

hmmm, really thinking about getting brown for my main set up.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

I'll post a dedicated thread in order to hunt down the keyboard of my dreams









EDIT:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1352588/need-help-finding-the-perfect-mechanical-keyboard-for-my-needs#post_19116986

here we go


----------



## douglatins

I've bought a CM Trigger Green, was it a good decision?


----------



## mironccr345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *douglatins*
> 
> I've bought a CM Trigger Green, was it a good decision?


Are you second guessing your purchase? I prefer stiffer switches, so greens would be ideal for me.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *douglatins*
> 
> I've bought a CM Trigger Green, was it a good decision?


Well the keyboard is top notch. Whether or not you like the switch type... you'll find out.


----------



## Paradigm84

Anyone want to compete?

http://www.overclock.net/t/1351812/keyboard-of-the-month-january-13










Also, do think we should add some charts to the OP to show off the popularity of the switches? From the data from the new entries to the Mechanical Keyboard Club I've made some charts like:



Also, do I have the most "ricey" board on OCN?


----------



## BoredErica

My keyboard is pretty vallina, unfortunately. What does a "ricey" board mean?


----------



## sammkv

Chart is pretty spot on, browns first and poor blacks in last lol


----------



## Iceman0803

Am I the only one that likes clears?


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> My keyboard is pretty vallina, unfortunately. What does a "ricey" board mean?


*Vanilla

A board that's very over the top.


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> *Vanilla
> 
> A board that's very over the top.


Good sir, this is the best looking keyboard on planet Earth.



...And sadly I have no clue how to get mine to look like that.


----------



## zflamewing

Love the chart. I had no idea browns had that much of an edge on blues.

@ Darkwizzie ricy or rice originated in the car mod scene and means Race Inspired Cosmetic Enhancement. Anymore it's a reference to anything visually tricked out usually over the top as Paradigm84 suggests









@ Paradigm84 maybe make a theme month for KotM eg. riciest board...etc.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zflamewing*
> 
> Love the chart. I had no idea browns had that much of an edge on blues.
> 
> @ Darkwizzie ricy or rice originated in the car mod scene and means Race Inspired Cosmetic Enhancement. Anymore it's a reference to anything visually tricked out usually over the top as Paradigm84 suggests
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @ Paradigm84 maybe make a theme month for KotM eg. riciest board...etc.


We're having enough trouble getting votes for any keyboard, let alone a particular themed one.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> *Vanilla
> 
> A board that's very over the top.


Great chart mate +rep!


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> *Vanilla
> 
> A board that's very over the top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great chart mate +rep!
Click to expand...

Thank you, sir.









I'm working to get some special keycaps made for the Keyboard of the Month competition, hopefully more of you will enter then.


----------



## zflamewing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> We're having enough trouble getting votes for any keyboard, let alone a particular themed one.


I see your point. Maybe when KotM takes off


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman0803*
> 
> Am I the only one that likes clears?


I love clears and greens.


----------



## Tator Tot

MX-Clear Master-Race reporting in!


----------



## DaClownie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Anyone want to compete?
> 
> Also, do I have the most "ricey" board on OCN?




I believe I win.


----------



## Gubz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaClownie*
> 
> 
> 
> I believe I win.


TacticalStache @ reddit wins, easily.


----------



## linkdiablo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gubz*
> 
> TacticalStache @ reddit wins, easily.


Nope Daclownie wins: He as orange stripes to make his keyboard go faster.


----------



## zflamewing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> Blues tactile feeling is much more distinct. It's a very defined click and it takes some force to go over the bump. I'd say browns are like halfway between blues and a linear switch. The bump is much less noticeable. But I haven't used browns in a couple of months, since I got my Filco, so I'm mainly going off memory here.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gubz*
> 
> ^This.
> 
> First time I tried browns after using blues for around six months, I had to literally take the cap of the switch to actually see if it was brown or red.
> I couldn't feel the tactile bump at all. But now after using browns for a month I'm in love. Definitely my favorite switch.


Thanks for the feedback guys. It sounds like I'll be learning to adjust to browns similar to learning blues after coming from rubber dome and trying out my wife's K90 several times trying to figure out if mechanicals were for me.


----------



## DaClownie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkdiablo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Gubz*
> 
> TacticalStache @ reddit wins, easily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope Daclownie wins: He as orange stripes to make his keyboard go faster.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the vote. I also have miscellaneous pink, red, and green keys i could pepper in to fully ugly this thing... but i'm just too lazy to loo k for my key puller...

Oh yea, and a metal space bar and escape key!


----------



## magna224

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman0803*
> 
> Am I the only one that likes clears?


I like clears best of the cherry switches. So do my friends.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

I don't like clears - I like see-through bras.
Lights are just eye-candy.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> I don't like clears - I like see-through bras.
> Lights are just eye-candy.


??????????????????????????????????????


----------



## Sniping

Hi, I'm looking for advise for my next keyboard.

I'm looking to get a keyboard solely for typing, so I've decided on MX Blues, as I already have the Razer Blackwidow and like the Blues. I'm trying to decide between a CM Storm QuickFire Rapid and some sort of Ducky keyboard. Are the Ducky keyboards worth it being almost twice as expensive as the CM keyboard? And I just want to reiterate that this keyboard will be only for typing, and no gaming will be done at all.

Thanks,


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sniping*
> 
> Hi, I'm looking for advise for my next keyboard.
> 
> I'm looking to get a keyboard solely for typing, so I've decided on MX Blues, as I already have the Razer Blackwidow and like the Blues. I'm trying to decide between a CM Storm QuickFire Rapid and some sort of Ducky keyboard. Are the Ducky keyboards worth it being almost twice as expensive as the CM keyboard? And I just want to reiterate that this keyboard will be only for typing, and no gaming will be done at all.
> 
> Thanks,


The build quality of Ducky and other higher priced boards like Filco's are considered to be very high compared to some of the lower priced offerings, as soon as you unbox the board you can really feel the quality of it.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sniping*
> 
> Hi, I'm looking for advise for my next keyboard.
> 
> I'm looking to get a keyboard solely for typing, so I've decided on MX Blues, as I already have the Razer Blackwidow and like the Blues. I'm trying to decide between a CM Storm QuickFire Rapid and some sort of Ducky keyboard. Are the Ducky keyboards worth it being almost twice as expensive as the CM keyboard? And I just want to reiterate that this keyboard will be only for typing, and no gaming will be done at all.
> 
> Thanks,


You might want to try out greens if "solely for typing".

Then again, I'm just a sucker for greens and clears. most people seem to hate them


----------



## BoredErica

Most people like blues for typing.
Ducky may have good build quality, but is it worth 50% more in price? Maybe if you are rich.


----------



## Sniping

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> You might want to try out greens if "solely for typing".
> 
> Then again, I'm just a sucker for greens and clears. most people seem to hate them


On paper, the actuation force looks a little scary to me, but I never had the chance to actually try a keyboard with the greens. Right now I'm just going to play it safe and stick with the blues until I get my hands on a keyboard with the green switches.


----------



## BoredErica

I suggest blues as well. High actuation forces are definately not my thing. Besides, blues are more common and well-known.


----------



## douglatins

Where do you guys buy custom keys? And are they compatible with storm trigger?


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *douglatins*
> 
> Where do you guys buy custom keys? And are they compatible with storm trigger?


Geekhack, wasdkeyboards, techkeys etc, and yes, the keys fit pretty much universally on MX switch based boards, the only exceptions being where the board might have a slightly different layout than usual or the casing might not be compatible with certain keycaps.


----------



## douglatins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Geekhack, wasdkeyboards, techkeys etc, and yes, the keys fit pretty much universally on MX switch based boards, the only exceptions being where the board might have a slightly different layout than usual or the casing might not be compatible with certain keycaps.


Any recommended store?


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *douglatins*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Geekhack, wasdkeyboards, techkeys etc, and yes, the keys fit pretty much universally on MX switch based boards, the only exceptions being where the board might have a slightly different layout than usual or the casing might not be compatible with certain keycaps.
> 
> 
> 
> Any recommended store?
Click to expand...

Depends what you are looking for, do you need backlit compatible? Do you want PBT/ ABS? Do you want a specific colour? If you don't want backlit compatible do you want them engraved/ laser etched/ dye sub/ doubleshot? etc


----------



## douglatins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Depends what you are looking for, do you need backlit compatible? Do you want PBT/ ABS? Do you want a specific colour? If you don't want backlit compatible do you want them engraved/ laser etched/ dye sub/ doubleshot? etc


I checked those stores and didnt find what i wanted. Like wasd sets, etc


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *douglatins*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Depends what you are looking for, do you need backlit compatible? Do you want PBT/ ABS? Do you want a specific colour? If you don't want backlit compatible do you want them engraved/ laser etched/ dye sub/ doubleshot? etc
> 
> 
> 
> I checked those stores and didnt find what i wanted. Like wasd sets, etc
Click to expand...

Just the WASD keys?

Like these?


----------



## douglatins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Just the WASD keys?
> 
> Like these?


Yeah, but like cool and whatnot.


----------



## mironccr345

Does any one have any experience with Ergo-Clear Switches?


----------



## vinton13

Hey guys. Looking for a mechanical keyboard. Need it to be back lit.
I game and type a lot (college kid). Anyways, I've stumbled upon these three keyboards. What do you guys think? And what would you guys prefer?

GIGABYTE GK-OSMIUM:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823334013

RAZER Blackwidow Ultimate 2013:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823114026

Cooler Master CM Storm Trigger:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823129004

Thanks.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *douglatins*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Just the WASD keys?
> 
> Like these?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, but like cool and whatnot.
Click to expand...

You'll have to be a bit more specific than that.


----------



## douglatins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> You'll have to be a bit more specific than that.


Lol i was getting a kick out of our oversimplified conversation. I mean cool coloring, glow, etc


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vinton13*
> 
> Hey guys. Looking for a mechanical keyboard. Need it to be back lit.
> I game and type a lot (college kid). Anyways, I've stumbled upon these three keyboards. What do you guys think? And what would you guys prefer?
> 
> GIGABYTE GK-OSMIUM:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823334013
> 
> RAZER Blackwidow Ultimate 2013:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823114026
> 
> Cooler Master CM Storm Trigger:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823129004
> 
> Thanks.


Trigger or Osmium, both quality built boards with similar feature sets.

Blackwidow Ultimate 2013 isn't that much different from the original BlackWidow Ultimate, and isn't worth the price due to it's cheaper design and overall meh quality.

I like the Osmium more than the Trigger because of the location for the macro keys.


----------



## vinton13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Trigger or Osmium, both quality built boards with similar feature sets.
> 
> Blackwidow Ultimate 2013 isn't that much different from the original BlackWidow Ultimate, and isn't worth the price due to it's cheaper design and overall meh quality.
> 
> I like the Osmium more than the Trigger because of the location for the macro keys.


Thanks!


----------



## BoredErica

Read my review for the Storm Trigger in my siggy. I recommend it.


----------



## Zero4549

Can anyone suggest some nice keyboards with Cherry MX White, Green, or Clear switches (or other quality high tactility high actuation force switches for that matter like buckling springs or whatever - clicky sound is sorta nice but not a big deal)?

I do enjoy back-lighting, media keys, and what not, but they aren't too important if it's unreasonable to ask for such things with these less common switch types.

I do however highly prefer a standard US ANSI layout. Wrist rests are pretty awesome too.


----------



## FoxWolf1

High quality, MX Clear, enjoy backlighting? Have you tried a Deck Legend?


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FoxWolf1*
> 
> High quality, MX Clear, enjoy backlighting? Have you tried a Deck Legend?


If they weren't abso-freaking-lutly hideous I'd already have one.

I mean seriously, it looks like those tacky translucent gameboys they had when I was a young teen...



and has what appears to be *comic-sans* legend font. *shudder*


----------



## raisinbun

edit: wrong post obviously =/


----------



## losttsol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FoxWolf1*
> 
> High quality, MX Clear, enjoy backlighting? Have you tried a Deck Legend?
> 
> 
> 
> If they weren't abso-freaking-lutly hideous I'd already have one.
> 
> I mean seriously, it looks like those tacky translucent gameboys they had when I was a young teen...
> 
> 
> 
> and has what appears to be *comic-sans* legend font. *shudder*
Click to expand...

How does that gameboy look like this?



It's a fantastic keyboard if you can get past the font.


----------



## BoredErica

It's not horrible, but it just isn't my style (and I am more picky with keyboard aesthetics, moreso than other components). To each on their own.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *losttsol*
> 
> How does that gameboy look like this?


 
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *losttsol (but not really)*
> 
> But but Zero, that is a Deck 82 and a N64 controller, not a Legend and a gameboy!


Shush. You get the point
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *losttsol*
> 
> It's a fantastic keyboard if you can get past the font.


And no, I can't. :/


----------



## Tator Tot

I can, MX-Clear's Deck Legend Frost Tactile is my daily driver and it is the best keyboard I've used besides a uniform 55cN RealForce.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> I can, MX-Clear's Deck Legend Frost Tactile is my daily driver and it is the best keyboard I've used besides a uniform 55cN RealForce.


That's cool. Maybe if they made a product that wasn't butt ugly and already outdated feature and design wise in 2004 I'd reconsider.

I have no doubt that they have excellent construction quality, but it'll need more than that to survive on my desk (at least, when they're charging more than their competitors who offer similar quality and much nicer looking and more fully featured boards).

Sadly, the switch type alone is not enough to warrant that raised price. I'm sure I could swap the switches out myself on a nice looking keyboard for almost the same cost and not be stuck with something hideous.


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> I can, MX-Clear's Deck Legend Frost Tactile is my daily driver and it is the best keyboard I've used besides a uniform 55cN RealForce.


What about all the other keyboards like Ducky or Filco? It seems all else being equal, they look better for my eyes.


----------



## losttsol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> I can, MX-Clear's Deck Legend Frost Tactile is my daily driver and it is the best keyboard I've used besides a uniform 55cN RealForce.
> 
> 
> 
> That's cool. Maybe if they made a product that wasn't butt ugly and already outdated feature and design wise in 2004 I'd reconsider.
> 
> I have no doubt that they have excellent construction quality, but it'll need more than that to survive on my desk (at least, when they're charging more than their competitors who offer similar quality and much nicer looking and more fully featured boards).
> 
> Sadly, the switch type alone is not enough to warrant that raised price. I'm sure I could swap the switches out myself on a nice looking keyboard for almost the same cost and not be stuck with something hideous.
Click to expand...

They are selling the same Deck I bought three years ago for $30 more today, and it's not because it sucks. I can say with certainty that it's the only computer peripheral I've ever bought that has held it's value. Let's see in three years if you can sell your Razer Black Widow or Corsair Vengeance for the same price you bought it.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *losttsol*
> 
> They are selling the same Deck I bought three years ago for $30 more today, and it's not because it sucks. I can say with certainty that it's the only computer peripheral I've ever bought that has held it's value. Let's see in three years if you can sell your Razer Black Widow or Corsair Vengeance for the same price you bought it.


eccentric people like eccentric things, what can I say?

First gen iPods retain their value but I doubt anyone is going to actually argue that they have anything at all over a modern PMP (or even your cell phone).

Again, I'm not going to argue that the Deck keyboards are _bad._ I agree that they in fact are built quite well.

I will however make the claim that raising the cost on a product years after it is released does not make it a good product. It makes it a nitch product in a stagnant market owned by someone who would rather milk it's cult followers than improve its production or its products.

I'll also stand by the claim that these particular keyboards are hideous and expensive compared to their competitors. Personal taste I know, but I think you will find that the general consensus is that rough translucent plastic covered PCBs with wiggly fonts have fallen out of favor quite a few years ago.

As for price - you can't possibly tell me that a unicomp keyboard is any less functional or durable, and sadly, they still look better, and are less than half the price. Oh right... and they're just a rebrand of the ancient IBM model M









Ok, rant over. Flameshield up!


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *losttsol*
> 
> They are selling the same Deck I bought three years ago for $30 more today, and it's not because it sucks. I can say with certainty that it's the only computer peripheral I've ever bought that has held it's value. Let's see in three years if you can sell your Razer Black Widow or Corsair Vengeance for the same price you bought it.


I thought Topre kept its value?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> I thought Topre kept its value?


Nobody said otherwise







.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> What about all the other keyboards like Ducky or Filco? It seems all else being equal, they look better for my eyes.


I've got a full sized Italian Red Filco 104 that I paid too much for. Nice board, MX-Blacks were decent. Better than MX-Browns.

I have my DK9008 as well. It was an original OCN board and I have sentimental value for it. The board itself isn't as good as the Deck.

Deck's keycaps have a better feel, the board is build better and the casing design helps it be quieter when you bottom out.

I'm actually in the process of modding a DK9008-S2 with MX-Clears, but for now the Deck is the far better option.

Most of the features of the Ducky I miss (locked windows key & calculator button the most) but I can do for now.


----------



## willywill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> I've got a full sized Italian Red Filco 104 that I paid too much for. Nice board, MX-Blacks were decent. Better than MX-Browns.
> 
> I have my DK9008 as well. It was an original OCN board and I have sentimental value for it. The board itself isn't as good as the Deck.
> 
> Deck's keycaps have a better feel, the board is build better and the casing design helps it be quieter when you bottom out.
> 
> I'm actually in the process of modding a DK9008-S2 with MX-Clears, but for now the Deck is the far better option.
> Most of the features of the Ducky I miss (locked windows key & calculator button the most) but I can do for now.


What keyboard do you use the most, the Deck? Am waiting for a tenkeyless Ducky G2 PRO or a Filco with Green switches


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willywill*
> 
> What keyboard do you use the most, the Deck? Am waiting for a tenkeyless Ducky G2 PRO or a Filco with Green switches


The Deck.

I'll most likely switch to the Shine II when I'm done doing the switch change to it. I have a QuickFire Rapid with MX-Greens and if I could stand clicky switches and didn't have Clear's, I'd probably use it.


----------



## Paradigm84

One day left to vote on the Keyboard of the Month contest, vote here.


----------



## CallsignVega

Anyone know where I can buy a KBT Race in blue switch/green LED?


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Anyone know where I can buy a KBT Race in blue switch/green LED?


Hello Vega.









Boost or _AKIMbO_ are probably your best bet, spam them with PM's.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Hello Vega.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boost or _AKIMbO_ are probably your best bet, spam them with PM's.


Sweet, PM's sent. I've gotten my mechanical Razer Orbweaver game-pad in. A KBT Race in matching green would be perfect combo.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Hello Vega.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boost or _AKIMbO_ are probably your best bet, spam them with PM's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet, PM's sent. I've gotten my mechanical Razer Orbweaver game-pad in. A KBT Race in matching green would be perfect combo.
Click to expand...

You've made me think of something, should we accept the Orbweaver as something for this club or not?


----------



## CallsignVega

Heck ya, I'll submit a pic of my Orbweaver and mechanical keyboard combo once it comes in (once I decide which to get, blasted out of stock hard to find stuff).


----------



## Paradigm84

Ok.









I keep forgetting which thread is which.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Anyone have any idea about this keyboard:

Armaggeddon Black Hornet MKA-3

It comes in either a black and brown cherry switch. I was about to buy the CM Storm Quickfire TK and ran into this, any input before I pull the trigger?


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> Anyone have any idea about this keyboard:
> 
> Armaggeddon Black Hornet MKA-3
> 
> It comes in either a black and brown cherry switch. I was about to buy the CM Storm Quickfire TK and ran into this, any input before I pull the trigger?


Looks exactly like a rebranded ducky


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> Looks exactly like a rebranded ducky


Now that you mention it and after looking at both models, they do look about the same including the font used.


----------



## zflamewing

I agree on the striking resplendence to a ducky the color highlights on the various keys with different LEDs is neat but not sure I'd pay extra for it unless I could pick the layout.


----------



## FoxWolf1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> Anyone have any idea about this keyboard:
> 
> Armaggeddon Black Hornet MKA-3
> 
> It comes in either a black and brown cherry switch. I was about to buy the CM Storm Quickfire TK and ran into this, any input before I pull the trigger?


I've been looking at this for a little while...seems to claim a lot of features, at least.

Buy it, then report back for all the rest of us?


----------



## Tator Tot

I can say that it doesn't quack.

It's made by the same OEM who made the Strike Eagle MKI-3


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

These military-inspired keyboard names are just too funny.


----------



## sammkv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> These military-inspired keyboard names are just too funny.


Indeed it is, haha!


----------



## ACEDDAUQS

I am looking to buy a mechanical keyboard. Thing is I need to get it from Amazon ( dont have to ) since I have a $50 Amazon card. I prefer brown switches, but also like reds and blues in that order. Only downside is the limited options on Amazon. At the same time they do have solid ones. So far I am looking at:

Logitech G710+
CM QFR ( browns or reds)
Filco MJ2 ( reds or blues)


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> The Deck.
> 
> I'll most likely switch to the Shine II when I'm done doing the switch change to it. I have a QuickFire Rapid with MX-Greens and if I could stand clicky switches and didn't have Clear's, I'd probably use it.


Did you vote here?

http://www.overclock.net/t/1351772/your-opinion-on-best-typing-keyboard/20#post_19114342


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> Did you vote here?
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1351772/your-opinion-on-best-typing-keyboard/20#post_19114342


I voted for Topre.

I'd vote for Model M, but they honestly don't have anything that Topre doesn't right now, besides a price advantage.

Deck's are the best built Cherry MX boards I've had my hands on, but in terms of overall build quality; Topre & ModelM are in their own league.


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> I voted for Topre.
> 
> I'd vote for Model M, but they honestly don't have anything that Topre doesn't right now, besides a price advantage.
> 
> Deck's are the best built Cherry MX boards I've had my hands on, but in terms of overall build quality; Topre & ModelM are in their own league.


Do any stores let a person try out a Topre?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> Do any stores let a person try out a Topre?


Japan is the only place I know of that has stores that carry them. They are way to expensive for the average person to think about buying.


----------



## Tator Tot

What Crazy said.

I think there are some places in Taiwan as well. Either way, they're crazy expensive for what you get, and it's not really worth it to the average user.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> What Crazy said.
> 
> I think there are some places in Taiwan as well. Either way, they're crazy expensive for what you get, and it's not really worth it to the average user.


If the average person sees this for $250, they'll try to argue with the shop owner that it's a typo and should be $25 since it's a plain normal keyboard.


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> If the average person sees this for $250, they'll try to argue with the shop owner that it's a typo and should be $25 since it's a plain normal keyboard.


More like $2.50!

Oh well, I want to try one out though, just to see what the fuss is about.


----------



## Aeloi

Love my Realforce TKL. Definitely have fun explaining to surprised non-tech people when they learn the value of it.


----------



## Marin

Topre's where it's at.


----------



## mironccr345

^^ I want to try those out! Do they have a tactile feel?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mironccr345*
> 
> ^^ I want to try those out! Do they have a tactile feel?


Yup, one of the best.


----------



## willywill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Yup, one of the best.


Never try one but on my local Craigslist, there a HHKB professional 2 (white, printed) $240 and a Realforce 87U Model: SE1700 for $200, i have it save in my bookmark but i can't spend that much money right now


----------



## sn0w

Hey guys, been looking for a decent priced mech to jump on - will be used 50/50 for coding/gaming - would appreciate media keys/backlight - macro keys not required but wouldn't hurt. Leaning towards browns - like the look of the das boards.

What do you suggest?


----------



## BoredErica

The CM Storm Trigger was $70 for black switches, $100 for the browns a while back. I think browns are a good compromise for gaming/typists. It's a light switch, but has less tactile bump than the blues and is quieter.

My suggestiong has red led, 5 macro keys, media keys. Check out my siggy for the full review.


----------



## Marin

What's the best way to wash keys?


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marin*
> 
> What's the best way to wash keys?


Take them off and dish wash







I did soap and water with my icky g15







I also ripped it apart and fixed the darn thing and that was impossibru for RMA to do 3 times! Unfortunately that means I can't replace it with a mech


----------



## Marin

Should I turn the steam off?


----------



## KipH

Just keep the temperature below the melting point of whatever they made of. And No, don't ask me how hot that is









PS, you can wash any parts you can take off the board. I am assuming we all know enough not to was the board or any part that will have electricity in it.

And if you mean like an old model M with gunk and discolor, you will need more. Like simple green or something. I tried vinegar and baking soda on one case and it worked OK.


----------



## DaClownie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marin*
> 
> Should I turn the steam off?


You can always get warm to hot water, mix with some dish soap in a container/bowl. Let them soak for a bit It should break down anything on it within 10-15 minutes, and then you can just swirl it all around for a little bit to get the last bit off. If there's anything on your keys that won't come off after doing that... you need to stop doing that at your computer


----------



## mironccr345

^^^^ That's what I do to clean my keycaps. Takes a while but def. worth it.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Just keep the temperature below the melting point of whatever they made of. And No, don't ask me how hot that is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS, you can wash any parts you can take off the board. *I am assuming we all know enough not to was the board or any part that will have electricity in it.
> *
> And if you mean like an old model M with gunk and discolor, you will need more. Like simple green or something. I tried vinegar and baking soda on one case and it worked OK.


Hell, I've washed motherboards before. As long as you make sure all the caps are discharged, battery removed, and let the thing fully dry afterwards, you're fine.


----------



## pandalin

Hi,

Can you please recommend me a good mechanical ps/2 keyboard that will do well in fifa ? I tend to press a lot of buttons and my current keyboard can't cope well enough.

Thanks


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pandalin*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Can you please recommend me a good mechanical ps/2 keyboard that will do well in fifa ? I tend to press a lot of buttons and my current keyboard can't cope well enough.
> 
> Thanks


Price range?
Backlighting?
Colour?
Switch Type?


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Price range?
> Backlighting?
> Colour?
> Switch Type?


Haha, starting to wish that question list was already in place hua?


----------



## Paradigm84

From now on, if people would like help deciding which mechanical keyboard to go for, then this thread can be used:

*http://www.overclock.net/t/1361490/keyboard-suggestion-thread*

Hopefully this will cut down on a lot of the similar threads we have in this section.


----------



## Stoogie

When will slim mechanical keys become available e.g. build 2mm full 0.5 actuation 3mm key size, rubber bottoms with 1mm rubber bottom of plastic keys 4x spring in corners, linear red blacks perfectly silent, will look the same as chiclet keys. its possible to make such a thing as a made a diagram for it so... hurry up INVENTORS......


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stoogie*
> 
> When will slim mechanical keys become available e.g. build 2mm full 0.5 actuation 3mm key size, rubber bottoms with 1mm rubber bottom of plastic keys 4x spring in corners, linear red blacks perfectly silent, will look the same as chiclet keys. its possible to make such a thing as a made a diagram for it so... hurry up INVENTORS......


What would be the point of having such a small actuation? You may aswell just use scissor switches.

If people wanted switches like that then they'd probably already be made.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stoogie*
> 
> When will slim mechanical keys become available e.g. build 2mm full 0.5 actuation 3mm key size, rubber bottoms with 1mm rubber bottom of plastic keys 4x spring in corners, linear red blacks perfectly silent, will look the same as chiclet keys. its possible to make such a thing as a made a diagram for it so... hurry up INVENTORS......


I'm sorry, was that even English?


----------



## Stoogie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> What would be the point of having such a small actuation? You may aswell just use scissor switches.
> 
> If people wanted switches like that then they'd probably already be made.


well its not like polls are going around determining if people want these types of switches or not, most designs come from the higher ups ideas, not what the popularity actually want. sure some would ask of it, but 99% of them wont even bother trying to get a word out, or they go unnoticed.

Edit: Also Laptops or rather higher end or gaming laptops would want mechanical keys in the future.
Edit: Small actuation? i bottom out on blacks or reds anyway, with a smaller actuation i can hit buttons faster for example: standard cherry mx red/black, to spam a button i have to go below 2mm actuation and above and repeat, most of the time i am bottoming out, thats 1.5-2.2mm travel distance to just spam a button, now if the actuation point was at 0.5mm instead i would only have to go 0.6mm to spam a button. understand?


----------



## Stoogie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> I'm sorry, was that even English?


Yes, if you speak in your head while you read it out, you will see that it makes sense.

Edit: Let me rephrase that: You need the ability to read words and imagine them in your head as a 3d object.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stoogie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> I'm sorry, was that even English?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, if you speak in your head while you read it out, you will see that it makes sense.
> 
> Edit: Let me rephrase that: You need the ability to read words and imagine them in your head as a 3d object.
Click to expand...

You're a strange one aren't you.

Just because you want these switches doesn't mean everyone else does.

And you drew a diagram of the switch and you don't know why people aren't designing them for you?


----------



## Tator Tot

Those kind of switches exist. Cherry MY / ML.

They're awful.

You can, however, get good scissor switches (like the ones in IBM / Lenovo Thinkpads) and get a much more refined experience.


----------



## Stoogie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Those kind of switches exist. Cherry MY / ML.
> 
> They're awful.
> 
> You can, however, get good scissor switches (like the ones in IBM / Lenovo Thinkpads) and get a much more refined experience.


thanks tator, i didnt know those existed, they are close indeed, you could come up with other designs but i doubt that will matter. i dislike mechanical keyboards because of the fat high keys, sure u can type like 15% faster, but i actually perform worse in games because of them, miss keys, hit wrong keys, keycaps too small. cant multiple hit the same key as fast as a membrane. i had used a razer lycosa for 5 years, just moved onto the razer deathstalker which yes is a chiclet keyboard, u can get chiclet ones for $15-20 like the gigabyte one. but i prefer them because i play better with them. is that weird?


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stoogie*
> 
> thanks tator, i didnt know those existed, they are close indeed, you could come up with other designs but i doubt that will matter. i dislike mechanical keyboards because of the fat high keys, sure u can type like 15% faster, but i actually perform worse in games because of them, miss keys, hit wrong keys, keycaps too small. cant multiple hit the same key as fast as a membrane. i had used a razer lycosa for 5 years, just moved onto the razer deathstalker which yes is a chiclet keyboard, u can get chiclet ones for $15-20 like the gigabyte one. but i prefer them because i play better with them. is that weird?


You missed the key to his post there. IBM / Lenovo Thinkpads. They are the ones you want. iRocks made some good ones, but they are also hard to find. If you pay $30 for a keyboard, you get a $30 keyboard









This one for Lenovo. But you can get with out the nub if you want.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Hi Guys!

I'll be jumping in to my first mechanical keyboard and it's made by Armaggeddon. It's apparently a Singaporean firm that's fairly new and looking at the KB in question, seems to be a knock off of a Ducky Shine 2 (DK9087). It's most likely they went to the same OEM ducky uses and came up with their own version of sorts.

Black Hornet MKA-3

I was about to get a Quickfire TK with Red Switches for about $103 but this one came along for only $60. The owner never used it and it sat in his room still with plastic on the box, pretty much unopened.

It's 87 keys are fully mechanical and it comes with a cherry black switch. I wanted to contribute in some way by doing a review or by taking it apart and taking some pictures of it for the community. Is this cool Tator Tot?

I will be picking up the item this Friday noon time (Thursday 12am - EST) and should be able to share pics and stuff by the same evening after work.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> Black Hornet MKA-3
> 
> It's 87 keys are fully mechanical and it comes with a cherry black switch. I wanted to contribute in some way by doing a review or by taking it apart and taking some pictures of it for the community. Is this cool Tator Tot?


That would be awesome, make sure to link it in this thread so others can see.

I don't believe that keyboard has Cherry MX Switches. I'm 90% sure they are the knock-off switches used in other boards like Zalman's $40 mechanical board.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> That would be awesome, make sure to link it in this thread so others can see.
> 
> I don't believe that keyboard has Cherry MX Switches. I'm 90% sure they are the knock-off switches used in other boards like Zalman's $40 mechanical board.


It specifies "Cherry MX Black" and "Cherry MX Brown" for the two different editions, for what that's worth.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

For what it's worth as well it actually costs $120 (should be around $100 from online stores in SG) from a retailer where I come from, this guy is just a friend who wanted to get rid of some gifts he got which he wasn't using.

He has a coupe of mechanical keyboards so he decided to sell this to me for cheap. So I'm hoping they might really be MX switches for the price it's being offered.

Speaking of which, how do I tell if they are knock offs after I remove the key caps?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> It specifies "Cherry MX Black" and "Cherry MX Brown" for the two different editions, for what that's worth.


It's a suspicion. I can't confirm it.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> It's a suspicion. I can't confirm it.


Fair enough. Hoping for the best mark_thaddeus


----------



## KipH

That company was in my computex thread and I did a long video about their OEM before. I have even linked to it a few times. I think, I have been wrong before, but it looks like a Dearmo.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> That company was in my computex thread and I did a long video about their OEM before. I have even linked to it a few times. I think, I have been wrong before, but it looks like a Dearmo.


I've been trying to look for that, can you link me to it directly? Is it part of the 2012 Computex thread in your sig?

Lastly, is it this *Dearmo* your talking about that uses the same switch?

Thank you sir!


----------



## KipH

LOL, ya. that is the same one. Did not know Phaed had the fortune to try one








I know I had some Armaggeddon pictures in 2012, but this is from farther back.

Here:


----------



## FoxWolf1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> I've been trying to look for that, can you link me to it directly? Is it part of the 2012 Computex thread in your sig?
> 
> Lastly, is it this *Dearmo* your talking about that uses the same switch?
> 
> Thank you sir!


I'm fairly certain the Azio Levetron Mech4/5 / Genius Thor MX / Dearmo GA9 - series is actually using regular MX Black switches. They look different from usual because one of the features of that series is a plate that extends upwards to cover the sides and tops of the switches for additional resistance to spills and debris; what you actually see isn't the switch, but the plate extension with the switch stem sticking out of it.

FWIW, my imaginary money's on the Black Hornet having actual MX switches. My reasoning is that for their other keyboard, which is using Kailh switches, they just call them "mechanical switches", not Cherry MX switches. Also, the usual price is rather higher than most Kailh boards, and they advertise both black and brown switches-- I've never seen a confirmed Kailh switch of either color before (only linear blue, yellow, and red), nor any confirmed non-linear Kailh switch, as the brown version would be. For that matter, I can't find definite proof (and there's some evidence to the contrary) that the red Kailhs are more similar to MX Red in weight, and not just identical to the yellows (and possibly the blues) but in a different color. That said, it would be rather interesting if it _were_ using Kailhs, since it'd mark an increase in the variety of Kailh switches confirmed to exist, and set a precedent for their application in higher-priced products.


----------



## Anonymole

I'd like to get this made, make it myself, or license the idea:

Ergonomic keyboards are too bizarre, with strange curves and key placement and expense.
Standard keyboard layouts are all made for 5 year olds with narrow bodies.
Here's a simple exercise to illustrate my point:

Sit in your chair.
Hold you elbows to your sides and your hands straight out.
Pretend you're about to play the piano, a comfortable, natural pose.
How far apart are your thumbs? About 6 inches no?
This is the position that is most natural for typing and is not reflective of today's keyboards.

Anyone know of a keyboard similar to this? That is, spread apart, but not weird?


----------



## Tator Tot

http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/advantage.htm

&

http://www.maltron.com/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=42&category_id=50


----------



## Anonymole

Thanks Tator Tot, but those are exactly what I was referring to when I mentioned "weird." No, what I'm looking for, and I'll probably just end up making it myself, is what you see in that picture. And, as I was thinking about the arm movement issue - keyboard to mouse to keyboard - here is a version with a trackpad in place of the numpad.

I've tried to contact a few manufacturers, but none have bothered to respond to me.


----------



## Crazy9000

There's the utron keyboard as well- http://xahlee.info/kbd/uTRON_keyboard.html. Main drawback would be the spacebar, seeing as your design looks to have two long ones.

I don't think any manufacturer will make a custom keyboard for you. Best bet would be making it yourself if you want it that badly. I am sure you could find a rubber dome keyboard that's similar, but I presume you're in here because you want a mech







.

Also, I think the little nub that was popular on laptops for awhile may be a better idea then a whole trackpad. Takes up a lot less space at least, then maybe you could move all those keys on the right to the middle. That would shorten the keyboard, making it a little easier to use a normal mouse when you need to.


----------



## KipH

I wonder if anyone has studied the rss isue with the alternative layout keyboards. The qwerty is designed to slow typing down by spreading the work to less used fingers but I am wondering if that did not accidently help us. If you use fewer fingers to more often type the common keys would not they get more rss?


----------



## xNovax

Very in-depth. Thanks


----------



## Anonymole

The spacing is critical, one wants the distance between hands, that's the point. And the right hand keys are also a critical aspect - this is a coder's keyboard. Every programmer I know uses the shift+control+directional keys to navigate a code window. Their placement and configuration must remain. So, the design was actually well thought out.

I used a laptop with the red nipple mouse between the G and the H keys. I got used to it and preferred it to the laptop's track area so, yeah there are alternatives for that area. But I'd bet that a smartphone gesture capable track area would be a hit and would eliminate forearm movement (keys to mouse) entirely.

> Also, I think the little nub that was popular on laptops for awhile may be a better idea then a whole trackpad. Takes up a lot less space at least, then maybe you could move all those keys on the right to the middle. That would shorten the keyboard, making it a little easier to use a normal mouse when you need to.


----------



## Paradigm84

Submissions please.









http://www.overclock.net/t/1360637/keyboard-of-the-month-feb-13


----------



## Paradigm84

Poll is up for the Keyboard of the Month competition, votes would be appreciated.









http://www.overclock.net/t/1360637/keyboard-of-the-month-feb-13


----------



## TwoCables

The spacebar on my 4-year old Filco Majestouch Tactile Click (original from Elite Keyboards) has begun to give me two keypresses for one sometimes. It has done this before, but I was able to fix it by spamming the Spacebar for about 15-20 seconds (like a really long fast drum roll). That's not working this time. It doesn't give me two for one *every* time, just occasionally.

The first time it happened, it was shortly after I quit OCN. That meant I was typing a *lot* less; some days would go by where I barely even typed one whole word. This time it doesn't seem to be caused by anything like that, so I'm a little confused and worried that maybe my spacebar is wearing out.

Is there something that I can do to fix it permanently?


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables*
> 
> The spacebar on my 4-year old Filco Majestouch Tactile Click (original from Elite Keyboards) has begun to give me two keypresses for one sometimes. It has done this before, but I was able to fix it by spamming the Spacebar for about 15-20 seconds (like a really long fast drum roll). That's not working this time. It doesn't give me two for one *every* time, just occasionally.
> 
> The first time it happened, it was shortly after I quit OCN. That meant I was typing a *lot* less; some days would go by where I barely even typed one whole word. This time it doesn't seem to be caused by anything like that, so I'm a little confused and worried that maybe my spacebar is wearing out.
> 
> Is there something that I can do to fix it permanently?


The "D" key on my x-armor has started doing the same thing for the last 2 or 3 weeks. Sometimes as many as 3 extra presses.

Just like you, I had a hiatus from my computer and a couple keys (especially the D key) got dusty I guess and it was all fine after some usage and compressed air.

But of course... just like your spacebar, it isn't helping this time, and there was no usage break or anything like that.

Sorry... no ideas on fixing it yet. I'll let you know if something works of course. Similarly, let me know if you figure something out yourself please


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> The "D" key on my x-armor has started doing the same thing for the last 2 or 3 weeks. Sometimes as many as 3 extra presses.
> 
> Just like you, I had a hiatus from my computer and a couple keys (especially the D key) got dusty I guess and it was all fine after some usage and compressed air.
> 
> But of course... just like your spacebar, it isn't helping this time, and there was no usage break or anything like that.
> 
> Sorry... no ideas on fixing it yet. I'll let you know if something works of course. Similarly, let me know if you figure something out yourself please


That makes me think that maybe my spacebar's switch needs a good cleaning somehow. This would be quite a shock to me because I don't let one day go by without thoroughly vacuuming my keyboard so that stays perfectly clean. I started doing this because I thought I read somewhere that dust and debris can get into the switches and cause problems. I later asked about that and I was told that this is not true. However, I'd say that it's true based on what you told me.


----------



## rebelextrm02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> The "D" key on my x-armor has started doing the same thing for the last 2 or 3 weeks. Sometimes as many as 3 extra presses.
> 
> Just like you, I had a hiatus from my computer and a couple keys (especially the D key) got dusty I guess and it was all fine after some usage and compressed air.
> 
> But of course... just like your spacebar, it isn't helping this time, and there was no usage break or anything like that.
> 
> Sorry... no ideas on fixing it yet. I'll let you know if something works of course. Similarly, let me know if you figure something out yourself please


I had this problem on my u9bl-s. for me it was my T key, also after a period of non use. I fixed it by dropping a drop of 95% rubbing alcohol into the switch while the stem was depressed and then clicked the switch until the alcohol evaporated. The problem has never returned.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rebelextrm02*
> 
> I had this problem on my u9bl-s. for me it was my T key, also after a period of non use. I fixed it by dropping a drop of 95% rubbing alcohol into the switch while the stem was depressed and then clicked the switch until the alcohol evaporated. The problem has never returned.


Hmm.. ok. Well as much as I hate unplugging my keyboard, I'd be willing to give it a try.

That said... exactly how do I know when said alcohol is evaporated? I mean, I suppose I could give it over night if I have to but I'm oh so impatient.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> Hmm.. ok. Well as much as I hate unplugging my keyboard, I'd be willing to give it a try.
> 
> That said... exactly how do I know when said alcohol is evaporated? I mean, I suppose I could give it over night if I have to but I'm oh so impatient.


Give it about 5-10 minutes, or leave the switch depressed overnight.


----------



## rebelextrm02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Give it about 5-10 minutes, or leave the switch depressed overnight.


Correct. It only takes a few minutes.


----------



## borandi

So I'm getting in a Rosewill RK-9100 with Blues, given that I type around 100k-150k keys a week. Part of me is going to love the nostalgia of a clicky keyboard again as the last one I had was my overused Commodore 64.

Just saw this regarding MX Greens: http://techreport.com/review/24461/a-first-look-at-cherry-mx-green-key-switches
Wouldn't having a green with more actuation force be detrimental for typists/writers?


----------



## Tator Tot

Just depends on how strong your fingers are.

I work with my hands daily, and it requires a lot of finger strength.

Thus, heavier switches like MX-Clears, MX-Greens, MX-Blacks, Buckling Springs, etc; feel better to me than lighter switches.


----------



## Stoogie

my fingers are strong as, played guitar for 14 years, believe it or not tho i prefer my razer deathstalker with chiclet styled keys over lycosa or any mechanical as it makes it alot easier to game with. i highly recommend the razer deathstalker for gaming


----------



## Tarnix

To the moderator: You can add the Logitech G710+ to the "Cherry MX Brown" list







(unless I missed some statement about not listing some keyboards)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TSXmike*
> 
> Any one know if the lighting issues with the G710+ have been addressed yet?


I bought one at NCIX (online) and I've been using it for two days, the backlight is still going strong. Mezmenir got one as well before me (from newegg) and his backlight died after 8 hours. So I guess you have to be careful with the date of manufacturing.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tarnix*
> 
> To the moderator: You can add the Logitech G710+ to the "Cherry MX Brown" list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (unless I missed some statement about not listing some keyboards)
> I bought one at NCIX (online) and I've been using it for two days, the backlight is still going strong. Mezmenir got one as well before me (from newegg) and his backlight died after 8 hours. So I guess you have to be careful with the date of manufacturing.


This is not a list at all. Its has examples of boards to talk about the type of switch. That said, it may need a bit of update. Greens and reds are much more common now.


----------



## borandi

I'll have to try an MX-Green one out at Computex later this year then (!)


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Tarnix*
> 
> To the moderator: You can add the Logitech G710+ to the "Cherry MX Brown" list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (unless I missed some statement about not listing some keyboards)
> I bought one at NCIX (online) and I've been using it for two days, the backlight is still going strong. Mezmenir got one as well before me (from newegg) and his backlight died after 8 hours. So I guess you have to be careful with the date of manufacturing.
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a list at all. Its has examples of boards to talk about the type of switch. That said, it may need a bit of update. Greens and reds are much more common now.
Click to expand...

Hopefully going to be working with the new Peripherals Editor when one is picked to give the OP an overhaul.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Hopefully going to be working with the new Peripherals Editor when one is picked to give the OP an overhaul.


I've always felt that that specific section of the guide would better be suited with it's own thread. That way the information could be more clear & detailed.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Hopefully going to be working with the new Peripherals Editor when one is picked to give the OP an overhaul.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've always felt that that specific section of the guide would better be suited with it's own thread. That way the information could be more clear & detailed.
Click to expand...

As in a suggested keyboard thread like the suggested audio products thread?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> As in a suggested keyboard thread like the suggested audio products thread?


Yep, general recommendations that break down the pro's & con's of keyboards.

Ala, poor software but high reliability. Etc.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> As in a suggested keyboard thread like the suggested audio products thread?
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, general recommendations that break down the pro's & con's of keyboards.
> 
> Ala, poor software but high reliability. Etc.
Click to expand...

Hopefully that's something the new Peripherals Editor could look at when he/ she is decided.









But I agree, it would good if we could have some sort of spreadsheet for many different boards outlining stuff like:


Build quality
Price
Software (if relevant)
Availability
Maybe even a points scale for each of them?

Now my brain is going into overdrive with ideas of how to implement that and make it work in partnership with the keyboard suggestion thread.


----------



## Tator Tot

If you wanna start it, I can get it in the stickies and then help with some of the updating. I've used most of the boards on the market right now. Slide a few refreshes out there (like the newer Meka G1 with backlighting on the WASD Keys.)

So I can at least comment on those with software and how well it works.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> If you wanna start it, I can get it in the stickies and then help with some of the updating. I've used _most_ of the boards on the market right now. Slide a few refreshes out there (like the newer Meka G1 with backlighting on the WASD Keys.)
> 
> So I can at least comment on those with software and how well it works.


Just the thread or start a spreadsheet also?

Oh and just mechanical?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Just the thread or start a spreadsheet also?
> 
> Oh and just mechanical?


I would just go with a thread, and not a spreadsheet for now. That way folks can have a resource where they see a front on shot of the keyboard; as well as detailed information.

It would specifically help so we know which keyboards are available in which layouts as well as which languages.

Also, I would stick with just mechanical for the time being. Unless we have someone who is experienced with all 10 million keyboards on the market, it'd be much easier to keep it as "FAQ: Recommended Mechanical Keyboards."


----------



## Paradigm84

Ok, I think I'll send you a PM so this discussion doesn't end up going on for 10 pages.


----------



## Tator Tot

10 Pages in a thread with 1400+ pages.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> 10 Pages in a thread with 1400+ pages.


Yeah, but it would be 10 pages of talk on how to arrange a thread.









If everyone doesn't mind, could they go to this page and fill out the form? We're trying to put together this recommended mechanical keyboards thread and we need your input.









http://www.overclock.net/t/1369215/recommended-mechanical-keyboard-thread-we-need-your-help

Thanks.


----------



## Marin

So after over 2 years of not touching a membrane/rubber dome KB and basically using just Topre and scissor switches I had to use one yesterday. It was so bad, I don't get how some people can't see the difference. It felt like mush when I typed.


----------



## Paradigm84

Hello Marin.









And yeah I agree, I tried out my old G19 the other day, and whilst I can type on it, it just felt bad, almost primitive.


----------



## Georc

I just wanted to say that I found this guide incredibly helpful, and it is part of the reason that I'm typing this message from my Max Keyboards Nighthawk x8 right now








I will recommend this guide to anyone who is interested in getting a mechanical keyboard (and some who don't know they're interested in getting a mechanical keyboard...yet







)


----------



## Millillion

I know most if not all people seem to dislike or outright hate Cherry MY switches, but aside from personal preference: does anyone know how durable they are in relation to both rubber dome and the finer fully-mechanical switches?

I have a Cherry G81-1800 that I actually really like (mostly because of how heavy is is and how well it sticks to my desk while saving space), and would like to know how long I could reasonably expect it to last.


----------



## Stoogie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Millillion*
> 
> I know most if not all people seem to dislike or outright hate Cherry MY switches, but aside from personal preference: does anyone know how durable they are in relation to both rubber dome and the finer fully-mechanical switches?
> 
> I have a Cherry G81-1800 that I actually really like (mostly because of how heavy is is and how well it sticks to my desk while saving space), and would like to know how long I could reasonably expect it to last.


It should last to the day you die if you take care of it, ive seen normal membrane ones last past 15 years, and they are supposed to have 5x less keystrokes, even though that 10mill keystroke number is a total BS estimate. it will last as long as u will let it. dont worry about how long they last.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Millillion*
> 
> I know most if not all people seem to dislike or outright hate Cherry MY switches, but aside from personal preference: does anyone know how durable they are in relation to both rubber dome and the finer fully-mechanical switches?
> 
> I have a Cherry G81-1800 that I actually really like (mostly because of how heavy is is and how well it sticks to my desk while saving space), and would like to know how long I could reasonably expect it to last.


The switches are rated at 20mil Operations.

Though, they can easily last much longer in a well maintained keyboard.


----------



## Millillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stoogie*
> 
> It should last to the day you die if you take care of it, ive seen normal membrane ones last past 15 years, and they are supposed to have 5x less keystrokes, even though that 10mill keystroke number is a total BS estimate. it will last as long as u will let it. dont worry about how long they last.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> The switches are rated at 20mil Operations.
> 
> Though, they can easily last much longer in a well maintained keyboard.


Alright, thanks, I was just making sure there was nothing about them I might need to be worried about


----------



## TwoCables

I think I fixed my spacebar without even removing it (it was sometimes giving me 2-3 spaces for one keypress). All I did was I vacuumed the keyboard extra thoroughly with a standard horse hair brush attachment. I did it in such a way that it achieved maximum suction on the spacebar and surrounding areas while simultaneously making sure to allow the spacebar to go up and down several times while vacuuming. It has been fine ever since, and so now I vacuum it like this every day. I've always vacuumed my keyboard off every day, but now I've just improved the way I do it.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables*
> 
> I think I fixed my spacebar without even removing it (it was sometimes giving me 2-3 spaces for one keypress). All I did was I vacuumed the keyboard extra thoroughly with a standard horse hair brush attachment. I did it in such a way that it achieved maximum suction on the spacebar and surrounding areas while simultaneously making sure to allow the spacebar to go up and down several times while vacuuming. It has been fine ever since, and so now I vacuum it like this every day. I've always vacuumed my keyboard off every day, but now I've just improved the way I do it.


Awesome, glad you found a way to fix it!

I used the drop of alcohol trick someone else mentioned. The key felt kinda "limp" for a day or 2 after (not as sharp of a click, both sound and feel) but that eventually stopped and the multiple pressing hasn't yet returned.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> Awesome, glad you found a way to fix it!
> 
> I used the drop of alcohol trick someone else mentioned. The key felt kinda "limp" for a day or 2 after (not as sharp of a click, both sound and feel) but that eventually stopped and the multiple pressing hasn't yet returned.


I think you mentioned this before, and this is actually why I decided to try doing what I did! I figured that if it's dirty, then maybe I can suck the debris out. That way if it didn't work, then I could have done what you did without feeling like I could have fixed it an easier way.


----------



## sonarctica

Darn.. I wanna buy a coolermaster keyboard, but i dont know which model to buy :/

i want the blacklight to be red, and the keyboard to be made for writing and gaming.

Cause i have read that some keyboards are made for different purposes due to the colors.

And i want a keyboard that is:

made for gaming
feels good to write in
Has red back light.
Not hard to push down a key like G19 as i have now but ones which needs about half of the preassure.

So which of the CM keyboards do you guys recommend?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonarctica*
> 
> Darn.. I wanna buy a coolermaster keyboard, but i dont know which model to buy :/
> 
> i want the blacklight to be red, and the keyboard to be made for writing and gaming.
> 
> Cause i have read that some keyboards are made for different purposes due to the colors.
> 
> And i want a keyboard that is:
> 
> made for gaming
> feels good to write in
> Has red back light.
> Not hard to push down a key like G19 as i have now but ones which needs about half of the preassure.
> 
> So which of the CM keyboards do you guys recommend?


The "colors" are the color of the key steam on the switches. The different switches have different characteristics. They are not visible without removing a key cap, and don't affect the LED colors.

What keyboard you want starts with deciding what kind of switch sounds good. The OP should have some info on that.


----------



## Stoogie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonarctica*
> 
> Darn.. I wanna buy a coolermaster keyboard, but i dont know which model to buy :/
> 
> i want the blacklight to be red, and the keyboard to be made for writing and gaming.
> 
> Cause i have read that some keyboards are made for different purposes due to the colors.
> 
> And i want a keyboard that is:
> 
> made for gaming
> feels good to write in
> Has red back light.
> Not hard to push down a key like G19 as i have now but ones which needs about half of the preassure.
> 
> So which of the CM keyboards do you guys recommend?


Coolermaster CM Storm Trigger Cherry Red (or browns but i dont know what browns feel like) get orings from wasd if u want to reduce bottom out noise and 4mm travel distance, they keys are coated in a smooth layer of something, and the entire keyboard is rubber coated, mad red leds too ;p
http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/product.php?product_id=3089


----------



## sonarctica

Ok, but does the Storm trigger got good light on the keys? Cause a friend of mine got Black widow 2013 http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.aspx?sku=763563 which has good backlit and strong colors compared to G19.

And i want a keyboard that also doesnt need much strenth to press down each keys (feels like the G19 has 80-100g pulldown force :S


----------



## Stoogie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonarctica*
> 
> Ok, but does the Storm trigger got good light on the keys? Cause a friend of mine got Black widow 2013 http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.aspx?sku=763563 which has good backlit and strong colors compared to G19.
> 
> And i want a keyboard that also doesnt need much strenth to press down each keys (feels like the G19 has 80-100g pulldown force :S


Yes it has awesome leds, get the cherry MX red its the lightest switch of all, its linear: http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mechanical-keyboard-guide#post_6009482
u can even add orings if u want from wasd: http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/cherry-mx-rubber-switch-dampeners.html

other alternatives would be a ducky, but they look liek basic plastic case, with default plastic keys, but it has lighting see: http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=113_1361
thats a australian store, if u live in usa do newegg or amazon, pref newegg,. some people complain about the poor build quality of ducky's and to be honest i think they look ugly.

other alternative would be a brown switch, which i havent used, i would recommend the red.


----------



## Bolaz

I just did a new build and i swear my office is starting to look like an episode of pimp my ride. Everything inside my case is lit in red. So i go out to get a Razer keyboard and Mouse (Which i love the feel of both) But what is driving me insane is that the mouse lights up in Blue and the keyboard only lights up in fluorescent green









I just bought them yesterday and would like to keep them but i cant get over the fact that my office is starting to look like the spectrum of a rainbow. i would love for all of them to match in red to stay with the theme....

Sorry guys /rant over


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bolaz*
> 
> I just did a new build and i swear my office is starting to look like an episode of pimp my ride. Everything inside my case is lit in red. So i go out to get a Razer keyboard and Mouse (Which i love the feel of both) But what is driving me insane is that the mouse lights up in Blue and the keyboard only lights up in fluorescent green
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just bought them yesterday and would like to keep them but i cant get over the fact that my office is starting to look like the spectrum of a rainbow. i would love for all of them to match in red to stay with the theme....
> 
> Sorry guys /rant over


You can see if you can get a Mass Effect 3 or Dragon Age 3 version of the Black Widow Ultimate.

Or you could mod your board to replace the LEDs.


----------



## Paradigm84

Or just restrict use of LED's to an absolute minimum.


----------



## Bolaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> You can see if you can get a Mass Effect 3 or Dragon Age 3 version of the Black Widow Ultimate.
> 
> Or you could mod your board to replace the LEDs.


Im gonna look into those keyboards thanks for the advice!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bolaz*
> 
> Im gonna look into those keyboards thanks for the advice!


Cooler Master Storm Trigger is another good option for you. Thermaltake Meka G-Unit Illuminated Edition or MEKA G1 Illuminated Edition also would fit into that red LED backlit mechanical gaming keyboard niche.

MEKA G1 & Storm Trigger are the two cheapest, but the MEKA G1 doesn't have Macro Keys.


----------



## Bolaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Cooler Master Storm Trigger is another good option for you. Thermaltake Meka G-Unit Illuminated Edition or MEKA G1 Illuminated Edition also would fit into that red LED backlit mechanical gaming keyboard niche.
> 
> MEKA G1 & Storm Trigger are the two cheapest, but the MEKA G1 doesn't have Macro Keys.


I will look into those as well thanks!


----------



## Minpojke

Hey guys, im new to this thread and made this account just to get some advice from you guys, so what ive done is that ive ordered a full white blank keycap set from wasdkeyboards.com for my filco majestouch 2 keyboard and the problem is that when i got the keycaps i had no idea where to actually put the keys aka i have no idea which keys are the numpad, f1-f12, wasd etc so if anyone can help me out here i would greatly appreciate it!

Edit: I found out that i had the row's engraved under the keycap and in that way i could get them into the right spot, this is the result:


----------



## Stoogie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minpojke*
> 
> Hey guys, im new to this thread and made this account just to get some advice from you guys, so what ive done is that ive ordered a full white blank keycap set from wasdkeyboards.com for my filco majestouch 2 keyboard and the problem is that when i got the keycaps i had no idea where to actually put the keys aka i have no idea which keys are the numpad, f1-f12, wasd etc so if anyone can help me out here i would greatly appreciate it!


some keys are thicker than others on keyboards, like the qwerty line is higher for example, best way to go about it is take 1 key off at a time to determine the row height (that is if the wasd keysets have different row heights too, if there all the same height then it wont matter) then get a wasd one exactly the same size and work it out like that until u cover the whole keyboard.


----------



## nizda

I'll be home in a few minutes and have a look at my majestouch2 for you.

Sent from Tapatalk HD


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Minpojke*
> 
> Hey guys, im new to this thread and made this account just to get some advice from you guys, so what ive done is that ive ordered a full white blank keycap set from wasdkeyboards.com for my filco majestouch 2 keyboard and the problem is that when i got the keycaps i had no idea where to actually put the keys aka i have no idea which keys are the numpad, f1-f12, wasd etc so if anyone can help me out here i would greatly appreciate it!
> 
> Edit: I found out that i had the row's engraved under the keycap and in that way i could get them into the right spot, this is the result:


Looks right, try running your finger across each row to see if you can feel any keys that are in the wrong place.


----------



## NFF

okay so after finding a horridly filthy dell quiet key (yes membrane. i cant find any used mech's around here) i did a deep cleaning on it and decided to switch it to the dvorak layout. and i can say that wile it is a PITA to remember where everything is i do feel better typing on it. going though the typeing tutor in qwerty mode i can do the lesson (100 words) in about 3 minutes. where as dvorak layout is about 8. but after doing the qwerty session my hands were screaming in pain. so maybe just maybe i can get proficent on the dvorak and save myself some pain.

on a second note how are ALPS style switches to type on? im looking at the azio levetron clicker for my next keyboard. personally i'd rather get a unicomp but the KRO is horrible on them and its more expensive. So dose anyone have any experience with the clicker and how is the alps to type on? dose it have a tactility like the buckling spring or a mx blue?


----------



## Tator Tot

Clicky White Alps, Type 4 simplified.

Medium weight, similar to a cherry blue but the action isn't as smooth. The board is alright, not worth more than $50-60 though.


----------



## Tagkaman

Hey, I picked up an old keyboard from my grandparents house yesterday (cherry black switches) and when I plugged it into the computer, the LEDs turned on (the one at the top, the caps lock, the num lock and the cursr pad) but my computer would not receive input from it. Any ideas on how I could get it to work?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tagkaman*
> 
> Hey, I picked up an old keyboard from my grandparents house yesterday (cherry black switches) and when I plugged it into the computer, the LEDs turned on (the one at the top, the caps lock, the num lock and the cursr pad) but my computer would not receive input from it. Any ideas on how I could get it to work?


If it's PS/2, you need to restart the computer to get it to work.


----------



## Tagkaman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Tagkaman*
> 
> Hey, I picked up an old keyboard from my grandparents house yesterday (cherry black switches) and when I plugged it into the computer, the LEDs turned on (the one at the top, the caps lock, the num lock and the cursr pad) but my computer would not receive input from it. Any ideas on how I could get it to work?
> 
> 
> 
> If it's PS/2, you need to restart the computer to get it to work.
Click to expand...

I've already tried that multiple times. Thanks anyway though.


----------



## thurst0n

Hello,
I am very close to purchasing this keyboard. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823162020 $99 with MIR seems good to me. I really think I want the browns over black/red or blue.

Anything I should know either for or against this board?

Any other comparables that I should heavily consider?

I do not need a lot of frills, although I really think I will like having USB and Headphone/Mic inputs on my keyboard. I want a very high quality board that will allow me to game for many years to come.

I'm thinking the brown switches are what I want.
I definitely want a full keyboard.
I don't really need or care about LED or extra multimedia keys(i'm going to miss my calculator button though







), I really am much more concerned with functionality than appearance. Although I do think this PRIME edition looks awesome.

Currently I have the Logitech Y-BN52, and it does what I need it to, but I think it's time for an upgrade, a few of the keys are not very consistent and I have lost SC2 games because of it 
Thanks guys for any input you want to give.

EDIT: Can anyone speak to parts that are re-used between multiple manufacturers? Obviously the switches but is there anything else that carries over? For example when I buy my whiskey, I know that most of it is coming from MGP.
Can anyone talk to the major OEM's and their quality, differences, and similarities in the final product?

EDIT: Looks like I missed the MIR on newegg. I am still seriously considering this keyboard but now my price is $140 which opens up a lot of competition. I'm not sure anything can compete @100, but @140 I have a ton of options. Thoughts?


----------



## Abacus1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thurst0n*
> 
> Hello,
> I am very close to purchasing this keyboard. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823162020 $99 with MIR seems good to me. I really think I want the browns over black/red or blue.
> 
> Anything I should know either for or against this board?
> 
> Any other comparables that I should heavily consider?
> 
> I do not need a lot of frills, although I really think I will like having USB and Headphone/Mic inputs on my keyboard. I want a very high quality board that will allow me to game for many years to come.
> 
> I'm thinking the brown switches are what I want.
> I definitely want a full keyboard.
> I don't really need or care about LED or extra multimedia keys(i'm going to miss my calculator button though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), I really am much more concerned with functionality than appearance. Although I do think this PRIME edition looks awesome.
> 
> Currently I have the Logitech Y-BN52, and it does what I need it to, but I think it's time for an upgrade, a few of the keys are not very consistent and I have lost SC2 games because of it
> Thanks guys for any input you want to give.
> 
> EDIT: Can anyone speak to parts that are re-used between multiple manufacturers? Obviously the switches but is there anything else that carries over? For example when I buy my whiskey, I know that most of it is coming from MGP.
> Can anyone talk to the major OEM's and their quality, differences, and similarities in the final product?
> 
> EDIT: Looks like I missed the MIR on newegg. I am still seriously considering this keyboard but now my price is $140 which opens up a lot of competition. I'm not sure anything can compete @100, but @140 I have a ton of options. Thoughts?


This OEM is not really known for their quality. Usually Costar is considered the best, or one of the best. If you are interested in a no-frills full sized keyboard, I would recommend Ducky Zero. Right in your price range, and Ducky quality is just superb.


----------



## KipH

I would suggest a Rosewill if you can find one on sale: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823201044

This would be you best bet. It should be 80 or 90, max 100$ thought, not 200!!!$$$!!! http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=23-201-051&ParentOnly=1&IsVirtualParent=1

That red for $70 is a great deal. Red and brown are close enough you wont mind. Put an O-ring or damper under the key and it is better than brown for you.


----------



## thurst0n

Thank you for your replies.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abacus1234*
> 
> This OEM is not really known for their quality. Usually Costar is considered the best, or one of the best. If you are interested in a no-frills full sized keyboard, I would recommend Ducky Zero. Right in your price range, and Ducky quality is just superb.


Can you tell me what OEM makes the model I posted? Or just any more about that in general I'm very curious. Costar=good. What else is good and what else do we generally be wary of?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> I would suggest a Rosewill if you can find one on sale: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823201044
> 
> This would be you best bet. It should be 80 or 90, max 100$ thought, not 200!!!$$$!!! http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=23-201-051&ParentOnly=1&IsVirtualParent=1
> 
> That red for $70 is a great deal. Red and brown are close enough you wont mind. Put an O-ring or damper under the key and it is better than brown for you.


Which OEM makes rosewill? I was quite sure that rosewill basically rebrands very low quality products and they are very good bargain bin akin to Dynex from Bestbuy. Perhaps this is not the case for their keyboards but for example I would never buy a rosewill PSU... I don't think.
I also am kinda sketched out by a detachable cable. It's just one more thing to go wrong, I will never detach it anyways. That's not a feature I think I even want tbh.

Speaking of O-Ring dampeners, I was considering getting some for the browns. I did consider getting reds but I specifically want the browns because I want *some* feedback, I'm not too worried about the noise piece but just don't care for the blues no really good reason.

Since I plan to do a lot of computer work(coding and other typing) on this other than gaming I figured browns would be a good middleground as it is my understanding that if you're doing heavy typing then having feedback is better? I guess it wouldn't matter as long as you were able to train yourself when the reds activate and not go past that..

I could be wrong but I didn't think adding orings to the reds or blacks would make them function like the browns. What do you mean "better than brown for you"?

I'm just thinking outloud here. Thanks everyone,


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thurst0n*
> 
> Thank you for your replies.
> Can you tell me what OEM makes the model I posted? Or just any more about that in general I'm very curious. Costar=good. What else is good and what else do we generally be wary of?
> Which OEM makes rosewill? I was quite sure that rosewill basically rebrands very low quality products and they are very good
> I'm just thinking outloud here. Thanks everyone,


Costar makes both boards.

iOne is really the only OEM to be weary of. They've not done well in the past, and many different products had numerous QC issues. Some new boards look to be doing better from them but I would still be cautious and wait for reviews.

Rosewill doesn't rebrand many cheap products anymore.


----------



## thurst0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Costar makes both boards.
> 
> iOne is really the only OEM to be weary of. They've not done well in the past, and many different products had numerous QC issues. Some new boards look to be doing better from them but I would still be cautious and wait for reviews.
> 
> Rosewill doesn't rebrand many cheap products anymore.


Ok just to clarify Costar makes the tt models and the rosewills? They make the Quickfire and Model S i believe right? I really like both of those models as well. The ducky and the Rosewill look good as long as I know the rosewill is a solid build I'll keep them on the list. There are a lot of great options at ~140 range.

From what I've read on some other forums the iOne issues have gotten better with the newer models.. I think there are plenty of good options from Costar which seems to be everyone's goto recommendation so I'll stick with those.


----------



## AJR1775

Just put an order in for a Corsair K70 and hope to have it soon. I like reds n browns myself. Anyone else pick up a K70 yet? First impressions?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thurst0n*
> 
> Ok just to clarify Costar makes the tt models and the rosewills? They make the Quickfire and Model S i believe right? I really like both of those models as well. The ducky and the Rosewill look good as long as I know the rosewill is a solid build I'll keep them on the list. There are a lot of great options at ~140 range.
> 
> From what I've read on some other forums the iOne issues have gotten better with the newer models.. I think there are plenty of good options from Costar which seems to be everyone's goto recommendation so I'll stick with those.


iOne mades the newer Das Model S Profession keyboards, old ones were Costar.

Also, yes, Costar makes both the Thermaltake MEKA G1 & Rosewill keyboards. As well as the QuickFire Rapid.

I-Rocks makes the QuickFire TK & Storm Trigger, as well as Tt's MEKA & MEKA G-UNIT.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AJR1775*
> 
> Just put an order in for a Corsair K70 and hope to have it soon. I like reds n browns myself. Anyone else pick up a K70 yet? First impressions?


K70 isn't out yet, no one is gonna have impressions just yet.


----------



## AJR1775

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> K70 isn't out yet, no one is gonna have impressions just yet.


Been available for purchase direct from Corsair since the 23rd, figured someone may have gotten it early. Ordered mine on the Egg but won't ship until Friday.


----------



## thurst0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> iOne mades the newer Das Model S Profession keyboards, old ones were Costar.
> 
> Also, yes, Costar makes both the Thermaltake MEKA G1 & Rosewill keyboards. As well as the QuickFire Rapid.
> I-Rocks makes the QuickFire TK & Storm Trigger, as well as Tt's MEKA & MEKA G-UNIT.


Many thanks, I'm quite certain I'll still go for the G1 Prime as I want the browns and I kinda want the headphone/mic/usb ports.

Plus I want to support e-sports .

I can already tell that I'll be buying another keyboard before this one dies. Kicking myself for missing the rebate.


----------



## KipH

Just for reference: There are and have been very good deals in that brand. They had a great case. The Keyboards are very well made, simple bug good. And they have some great bargains in PSU now. Don't diss em.

I said Red for you dampened because they feel more like a nice black or brown then. They also are good for typing if you have a light touch and good for gaming. Don't count out the red. I can see why people choose Blue for typing though. Red or Brown can both be good for a combo board.


----------



## CMRajiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thurst0n*
> 
> Many thanks, I'm quite certain I'll still go for the G1 Prime as I want the browns and I kinda want the headphone/mic/usb ports.
> 
> Plus I want to support e-sports .
> 
> I can already tell that I'll be buying another keyboard before this one dies. Kicking myself for missing the rebate.


Hey! We support e-sports too ya know









http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/team_curse/index.php
http://www.cmstorm.com/en/esport/


----------



## tryceo

Does anyone know how I can increase the polling rate on my keyboard?

The program I downloaded apparently only works for mice.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tryceo*
> 
> Does anyone know how I can increase the polling rate on my keyboard?
> 
> The program I downloaded apparently only works for mice.


There is no reason to increase the polling rate on your keyboard







.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tryceo*
> 
> Does anyone know how I can increase the polling rate on my keyboard?
> 
> The program I downloaded apparently only works for mice.


Do not!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> There is no reason to increase the polling rate on your keyboard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Let me be more clear. All talk about polling rates on keyboards is for advertising. It does nothing for the board. Do not buy a keyboard because it says it has a faster polling rate. Software to "speed up your USB" port is also fake. Some motherboards do have improved USB ports, but they will not help keyboards at all. AT ALL!


----------



## thurst0n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CMRajiv*
> 
> Hey! We support e-sports too ya know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/team_curse/index.php
> http://www.cmstorm.com/en/esport/


I never said you didn't 

I heavily considered the Quickfire but in the end chose the G1 Prime due to the USB/Mic/Headphone jacks, this obviously isn't the main feature of the keyboard but i know i will personally use it a lot and as a side note I like their design better. Something about the quickfire looks bleh to me i have no idea why. Perhaps it looks better in person but the pics turned me off for no specific reason.

Now your cases on the other hand.. I think those are pretty sexy and I will be in the market for a new case as soon as I'm ready to upgrade my CPU and my Mobo... so you will certainly be on the top of that list as well..


----------



## radurock

Hello everyone and firstly thank you for the guide.

I have a small issue with my g6v2 spacebar (after i spilt juice on it...now waiting on wd40 order). When i press the side of the spacebar with my righthand thumb sometimes it makes the other side (left side of the spacebar) pop out and it is so annoying. Do you guys have any idea on how to fix this?

Thank you


----------



## Crazy9000

wd40 is probably a bad idea, I would advise against using it.

Try taking the spacebar off and checking the stabilizer. Something wrong there would be my guess... Or maybe just press down on it if it's not snapped down on that side.


----------



## KipH

It probably needs more cleaning. Q-tips and non-residue cleaner would be best. Water even if you have nothing else. Dry

Then use a Di-electric grease. Silicon grease would be best. The oil that comes in an electric razor may work, I am not sure. Assuming you don''t have tool like items due to lace of WD40.

Yes, WD40 is great! But not what you want here. The penetrating part of it is bad for circuits.


----------



## radurock

Thank you for the replies

I've spilt the juice about almost one week ago now. Because I'm a student and the city i live in doesn't really have much i have to wait for amazon orders to get products. So wd40 is a bad idea then







...and i was so pumped to receive it tomorrow and fix it once and for all...
I guess i'll order a silicone grease now.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Servisol-Silicone-Grease-50G/dp/B000L97ZPI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1368553454&sr=8-1&keywords=silicone+grease
would this silicone grease work?

Regards,
Radu


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radurock*
> 
> Hello everyone and firstly thank you for the guide.
> 
> I have a small issue with my g6v2 spacebar (after i spilt juice on it...now waiting on wd40 order). When i press the side of the spacebar with my righthand thumb sometimes it makes the other side (left side of the spacebar) pop out and it is so annoying. Do you guys have any idea on how to fix this?
> 
> Thank you


Before using anything on it, have you tried taking the spacebar off and seeing if the stabilizers are stuck or sticking? I would start with that.


----------



## radurock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> Before using anything on it, have you tried taking the spacebar off and seeing if the stabilizers are stuck or sticking? I would start with that.


i've taken all the keys off and cleaned the keycaps ...the stabilizer is underneath the switches i guess so i would have to take apart the keyboard? (still looking for videos on how to...not to break my keyboard)....the stablizer buttons on the sides (the small ones) are both "down" so to say...like i can't press either of them...but once i put the spacebar on i can use the side of the spacebar ....it feels more like the slot in which the side stabilizers should go in has more space than their shape....


----------



## sonarctica

Which of theese would you guys recommend (under 900)?

I was tinking of getting an cherry MX RED

http://www.komplett.no/k/search.aspx?q=mechanical&sortBy=p&bn=11154


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radurock*
> 
> i've taken all the keys off and cleaned the keycaps ...the stabilizer is underneath the switches i guess so i would have to take apart the keyboard? (still looking for videos on how to...not to break my keyboard)....the stablizer buttons on the sides (the small ones) are both "down" so to say...like i can't press either of them...but once i put the spacebar on i can use the side of the spacebar ....it feels more like the slot in which the side stabilizers should go in has more space than their shape....


Oh. That does not have a stabiliser, that has the guide slot things... I have not used that type. I thought they always used a stabiliser actually, a bent metal wire like thing...

First, take all the key caps, specially the bar, and wash them in hot water and dish soap, dry well. Let them soak if needed. Make sure they is clean.
Then yes, that grease should help. Where are you at that has no store that caries it local? Any simple DIY or hardware store should have some. Heck, go to the shop teacher in your school and ask him or her.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonarctica*
> 
> Which of theese would you guys recommend (under 900)?
> 
> I was tinking of getting an cherry MX RED
> 
> http://www.komplett.no/k/search.aspx?q=mechanical&sortBy=p&bn=11154


The CM Storm QF Rapid TK is a no brainier! Get that one. Backlighting and full 10keys for same price as a Rapid? Wow. That is a great board. The SteelSeries 7G is a good deal if you really must have a second option and Corsairs are good boards too, but nothing comes close to CM TK in that list. CM has it









Ya, I would get the TK over most of them, even if it was more $$.


----------



## radurock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Oh. That does not have a stabiliser, that has the guide slot things... I have not used that type. I thought they always used a stabiliser actually, a bent metal wire like thing...
> 
> First, take all the key caps, specially the bar, and wash them in hot water and dish soap, dry well. Let them soak if needed. Make sure they is clean.
> Then yes, that grease should help. Where are you at that has no store that caries it local? Any simple DIY or hardware store should have some. Heck, go to the shop teacher in your school and ask him or her.


It does have the stabilizer but it is underneath (under the blackboard so to say)....do you have any grease brand you would recomend? cheers for the help man...really appreciate it


----------



## KipH

I am on my phone. Net is down, so I can't link. Look up costar and cherry stabilizers, you can see what we were thinking of. So you will have to show it or look your up.

But any di electric grease is good, you need a tiny amount too. I think perhaps solder flux would work? Check that.


----------



## radurock

I went to the other side of the town -.- found and bought this:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41E8G7MXM0L.jpg
silicone lubricant
Is it good?
Cheers
edit: i've lubbed al the switches...seems good for now...i think i'll have to relube them tomorrow just to go 100%
about the spacebar issue i put some blutac(sticky gum) on the side stabilizers( actually small small switches) and it seems fine.

thank you all for the help


----------



## KipH

Looks good. And proof is in the working


----------



## mironccr345

I didn't have any lube, so I used a little Vaseline on my sticky key's. Just a little dab on the stem, work it in and it worked. I've recently RMA'd the keyboard because of the "M" key not working. Not advising any one to do this, just thought I'd share.







Also, my buddy's spilled beer on my keyboard, reason for sticky key's.


----------



## Qlix

Would anyone be able to suggest which switches have a similar feel to a razor Lycosa?


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qlix*
> 
> Would anyone be able to suggest which switches have a similar feel to a razor Lycosa?


The Lycosa is a mushy rubber dome type, so a black switch would be most like it. In that you can mash the keys and double tap in the same way. But then adding O rings would make it even more so. If you add the rings, you could try a brown or red switch, depending on if you like a bit less key pressure.


----------



## villain

My WASD sampler kit arrived today. After reading about switches for weeks, I finally got to test them. I put them on a cardboard "PCB", which helped a lot











*MX Blue*
Compared to the Brown switch, the feedback is a lot more crisp. The clicky sound adds a lot to the feeling, making it the switch that feels the most mechanical. The click is somewhat loud, but not to the point that someone in another room would hear it. From what I can tell double tapping shouldn't be an issue when bottoming out (in games), since the key bounces back. But it's definitely the most difficult switch to actuate repeatedly.

*MX Brown*
The feedback is much more subtle and compared to the Blue switch less refined. It feels like a Red switch with a bump halfway down the way. The switch is much quieter than a Blue switch, yet slightly louder than a Red/Black switch due to the bump. Double tapping works well.

*MX Red*
There's no bump and there's no click. The switch feels smooth and is easy to actuate. I'd say resting your fingers on multiple keys isn't enough to trigger them, but resting your whole hand on just a few keys is. It's the easiest switch to bottom out and actuate multiple times.

*MX Black*
This one's a lot like the Red switch, but the force required to push the key down increases as you go. It's possibly the easiest switch to not bottom out because of that. Out of the 4 switches, the Black switch feels the closest to a rubber dome.

Update: Link to my O-ring comparison.


----------



## mironccr345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *villain*
> 
> My WASD sampler kit arrived today. After reading about switches for weeks, I finally got to test them. I put them on a cardboard "PCB", which helped a lot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *MX Blue*
> Compared to the Brown switch, the feedback is a lot more crisp. The clicky sound adds a lot to the feeling, making it the switch that feels the most mechanical. The click is somewhat loud, but not to the point that someone in another room would hear it. From what I can tell double tapping shouldn't be an issue when bottoming out (in games), since the key bounces back. But it's definitely the most difficult switch to actuate repeatedly.
> 
> *MX Brown*
> The feedback is much more subtle and compared to the Blue switch less refined. It feels like a Red switch with a bump halfway down the way. The switch is much quieter than a Blue switch, yet slightly louder than a Red/Black switch due to the bump. Double tapping works well.
> 
> *MX Red*
> There's no bump and there's no click. The switch feels smooth and is easy to actuate. I'd say resting your fingers on multiple keys isn't enough to trigger them, but resting your whole hand on just a few keys is. It's the easiest switch to bottom out and actuate multiple times.
> 
> *MX Black*
> This one's a lot like the Red switch, but the force required to push the key down increases as you go. It's possibly the easiest switch to not bottom out because of that. Out of the 4 switches, the Black switch feels the closest to a rubber dome.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't tested the o-rings yet.


Spot on. +rep to you sir.


----------



## jokrik

Sold my filco majestouch2 blue today
looking forward to get a new TKL keyboard to save some space on my desk
currently i've access to

Ducky DK9087 G2 Pro Limited White Edition - Love the look of the white keycaps

Filco Majestouch 2 Tenkeyless - Undoubtedly good quality keyboard but might get custom white keycaps for it

Ducky DK9087 Shine 2 - not a fan of led keycaps

or

Leopold FC700R [Cherry MX Blue - White Housing] - questioning

which would you guys recommend ?

heard the cherry stabilizer on leopold/ducky isnt as satisfying as Costar Stabilizers


----------



## villain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jokrik*
> 
> Sold my filco majestouch2 blue today
> looking forward to get a new TKL keyboard to save some space on my desk
> currently i've access to
> 
> Ducky DK9087 G2 Pro Limited White Edition - Love the look of the white keycaps
> 
> Filco Majestouch 2 Tenkeyless - Undoubtedly good quality keyboard but might get custom white keycaps for it
> 
> Ducky DK9087 Shine 2 - not a fan of led keycaps
> 
> or
> 
> Leopold FC700R [Cherry MX Blue - White Housing] - questioning
> 
> which would you guys recommend ?
> 
> heard the cherry stabilizer on leopold/ducky isnt as satisfying as Costar Stabilizers


Wrong thread, there's a Keyboard Suggestion Thread.

Ducky for backlighting and media keys, Filco for quality and Costar stabilizers.


----------



## WonderMutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *villain*
> 
> My WASD sampler kit arrived today. After reading about switches for weeks, I finally got to test them. I put them on a cardboard "PCB", which helped a lot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *MX Blue*
> Compared to the Brown switch, the feedback is a lot more crisp. The clicky sound adds a lot to the feeling, making it the switch that feels the most mechanical. The click is somewhat loud, but not to the point that someone in another room would hear it. From what I can tell double tapping shouldn't be an issue when bottoming out (in games), since the key bounces back. But it's definitely the most difficult switch to actuate repeatedly.
> 
> *MX Brown*
> The feedback is much more subtle and compared to the Blue switch less refined. It feels like a Red switch with a bump halfway down the way. The switch is much quieter than a Blue switch, yet slightly louder than a Red/Black switch due to the bump. Double tapping works well.
> 
> *MX Red*
> There's no bump and there's no click. The switch feels smooth and is easy to actuate. I'd say resting your fingers on multiple keys isn't enough to trigger them, but resting your whole hand on just a few keys is. It's the easiest switch to bottom out and actuate multiple times.
> 
> *MX Black*
> This one's a lot like the Red switch, but the force required to push the key down increases as you go. It's possibly the easiest switch to not bottom out because of that. Out of the 4 switches, the Black switch feels the closest to a rubber dome.
> 
> I haven't tested the o-rings yet.


Rep+! Very nice write up!! Can't wait to hear what you think of them with the o-rings on.


----------



## villain

*Note: While this comparison can give you a general idea, it lacks many variables such as long-term experience or how the O-rings feel on different keyboards. The recommendations are based on my opinion.*

I spent some time testing the WASD O-rings on my 4 switches (MX Blue, MX Brown, MX Red, MX Black).

*40A-R*
The keys are stopped very early and feel notably softer. Linear switches feel rather mushy. Tactile switches lose some of their crispness, especially MX Blues. I would only consider them on MX Browns, if at all.

*40A-L*
They don't mess much with the feeling of the switches, but provide a great noise reduction and are easier on your fingers (compared to no O-rings). Overall a great choice, since they work well with all switches. Especially great with linear switches.

*50A-R*
The keys land very early and rather hard. I'd say avoid them on light and/or linear switches, because they put a lot of stress on your finger tips (compared to no O-rings). On MX Blues they're bearable, provide a bit more feedback and make it easier to press the key repeatedly.

soft, 0.4 mm travel reduction, blue color
soft, 0.2 mm travel reduction, red color
hard, 0.4 mm travel reduction black color


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *villain*
> 
> I spent some time testing the WASD O-rings on my 4 switches (MX Blue, MX Brown, MX Red, MX Black).
> 
> *40A-R*
> The keys are stopped very early and feel notably softer. Linear switches feel rather mushy. Tactile switches lose some of their crispness, especially MX Blues. I would only consider them on MX Browns, if at all.
> 
> *40A-L*
> They don't mess much with the feeling of the switches, but provide a great noise reduction and are easier on your fingers (compared to no O-rings). Overall a great choice, since they work well with all switches. Especially great with linear switches.
> 
> *50A-R*
> The keys land very early and rather hard. I'd say avoid them on light and/or linear switches, because they put a lot of stress on your finger tips (compared to no O-rings). On MX Blues they're bearable, provide a bit more feedback and make it easier to press the key repeatedly.
> 
> soft, 0.4 mm travel reduction, blue color
> soft, 0.2 mm travel reduction, red color
> hard, 0.4 mm travel reduction black color


Thanks for this write-up. You're the first person I've seen have anything negative to say about o-rings. I think your description of the 50A o-rings is spot on and felt exactly the same way about them, finding them only somewhat bearable on blue switches but nowhere else. After reading this, I went ahead and ordered a set of the 40A-L, hopefully my experience with them will be similar to yours.


----------



## KipH

That is an excellent review and write up of the rings! Thanks. I should buy 40A-L stocks, I see lots of people buying them after that, myself included.


----------



## fateswarm

It might be a good idea to add info on lubrication/greases etc. used on keyboards. Other sites have done the research and you can draw from it. It's especially useful on certain squeaky keys and some consider using them in all brown switches anyway since they appear to be inherently frictiony.


----------



## mironccr345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *villain*
> 
> I spent some time testing the WASD O-rings on my 4 switches (MX Blue, MX Brown, MX Red, MX Black).
> 
> *40A-R*
> The keys are stopped very early and feel notably softer. Linear switches feel rather mushy. Tactile switches lose some of their crispness, especially MX Blues. I would only consider them on MX Browns, if at all.
> 
> *40A-L*
> They don't mess much with the feeling of the switches, but provide a great noise reduction and are easier on your fingers (compared to no O-rings). Overall a great choice, since they work well with all switches. Especially great with linear switches.
> 
> *50A-R*
> The keys land very early and rather hard. I'd say avoid them on light and/or linear switches, because they put a lot of stress on your finger tips (compared to no O-rings). On MX Blues they're bearable, provide a bit more feedback and make it easier to press the key repeatedly.
> 
> soft, 0.4 mm travel reduction, blue color
> soft, 0.2 mm travel reduction, red color
> hard, 0.4 mm travel reduction black color


I'm currently use the 50A-R and after reading you're write up, I think I'll give the 40A-L a try. The 50A-R's are stiff/hard at first, but after using it for more than 2 weeks, they will soften up and feel much better.


----------



## TwoCables

I finally fixed my spacebar problem where I was sometimes getting 2 or more spaces with just one keypress (sometimes 5 or more spaces!). Here's what I did:


I removed the following key caps: both the left and right Alt keys, then X, C, V, B, N, M and the key next to M that has both the '<' symbol and the comma.
Then, I removed the spacebar
I found a syringe that's "for oral use only" and I sucked up maybe 10-15 drops worth of 91% Isopropyl Alcohol (it's the only alcohol I have). I was trying to suck up only 4-5 drops worth, but hey. lol 
Using a toothpick, I pressed the switch all the way down. I didn't want my finger to be in the way!
I carefully dropped 1 drop into the switch, and then I pressed the switch like a couple dozen times or so in rapid succession
Then I added a couple more drops and pressed the switch several times again in rapid succession
I noticed that I wasn't getting drops in on one side of the switch, so I added 1-2 more drops to that side and then I pressed the switch probably a hundred times or so in rapid succession because I was done adding drops. I like to be thorough. 
Then I held the switch all the way down with the toothpick for maybe 2 minutes.
While holding it down, I blew gently straight down at the switch from about 10" above it just to help with evaporate the alcohol.
Then 10 minutes after I added the last drop (so, right before I began holding the switch down with the toothpick), I put all the caps back on and turned my computer on
I tested it, and lo and behold it's working perfectly now. No more spacebar problems! The click sound is even reduced a bit just as I was told it would be, so I know I did this correctly.

I have legendarylinc to thank for the motivation and confidence to do this because he made the thread below (it made it feel like it was definitely worth trying because I saw that it worked for him right before my very eyes):

http://www.overclock.net/t/1393125/double-tapping-issues-with-razer-blackwidow

As you can see, I helped him by giving him the same advice that I received here in the Mechanical Keyboard Guide. The reason I hadn't done it yet is it seemed I had some control over it because I could usually fix it by just doing a long "drum roll" on my spacebar in Notepad. Well, my day only started a couple of hours ago and my spacebar was already doing it but this time it wasn't getting fixed by doing my drum roll, so I kind of lost my patience and finally took care of it!  I didn't want to spend the entire day dealing with it! lol

Ultimately though, I have rebelextrm02 to thank for this because the post below is where I received that advice from:

http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mechanical-keyboard-guide/13900_100#post_19432333

So, thank you rebelextrm02!


----------



## WonderMutt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *villain*
> 
> I spent some time testing the WASD O-rings on my 4 switches (MX Blue, MX Brown, MX Red, MX Black).
> 
> *40A-R*
> The keys are stopped very early and feel notably softer. Linear switches feel rather mushy. Tactile switches lose some of their crispness, especially MX Blues. I would only consider them on MX Browns, if at all.
> 
> *40A-L*
> They don't mess much with the feeling of the switches, but provide a great noise reduction and are easier on your fingers (compared to no O-rings). Overall a great choice, since they work well with all switches. Especially great with linear switches.
> 
> *50A-R*
> The keys land very early and rather hard. I'd say avoid them on light and/or linear switches, because they put a lot of stress on your finger tips (compared to no O-rings). On MX Blues they're bearable, provide a bit more feedback and make it easier to press the key repeatedly.
> 
> soft, 0.4 mm travel reduction, blue color
> soft, 0.2 mm travel reduction, red color
> hard, 0.4 mm travel reduction black color


Very nice write up, villain, I really like how you took the time to test each o-ring on different switches, I know this took a lot of time and you did a very great, short and concise piece for us to use as a reference. Thank you for taking the time.

I do have one thing, though, and please don't take it personally, as that is not how I intend it, but I just wanted to put this out there for the thread to see&#8230;

This testing is all very subjective. While I have not tried the other o-rings, I currently have 50A-Rs on my CM Storm QF Pro with MX Browns at work and I love the way it feels. It takes out most of the noise, but still leaves the responsive click. Also, when I first got this keyboard, I found it almost painful to type on as I always used to bottom out the keys, and hitting bottom on these was very sudden and harsh. With the 50A-Rs it is quite the opposite. I find the keys feel softer when I do bottom them out and I find now my fingertips don't hurt after extended typing periods.

Now, to make sure I'm being completely clear, I've also learned, in the few weeks I've had the board, how to type correctly on it. I love the MX Browns (and MX Blues I have on my Ducky at home) because of the tactile feel. I've learned how to type on them efficiently without bottoming out the keys, at least not with every key press. I'm still learning (I've been using the boards for about a month now) how to properly type on both my mechanical keyboards, and it is taking me time to get my speed back (when trying to type by feeling the bump and moving on rather than bottoming out every key), but I can certainly tell a difference.

Anyway, back to my point at hand. While I applaud you for your testing and write up, and I think you did a great job, I just want to make sure that people remember, the feeling is subjective. What works for you may not work for me and vice versa. As it is with everyone.

Personally, I love the feel of the 50A-Rs on my MX Brown board, but I hated them on my MX Blue board and I'm considering trying different ones on that board. My point is, I feel exactly opposite as to how you do about the same thing, and I think other users may find this as well (while I'm sure others will completely agree with you and think I'm nuts, that's just the way it goes). So remember, feeling is subjective, and while you provide us with some really great information, each user will be different and may have different feelings.


----------



## villain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WonderMutt*
> 
> Very nice write up, villain, I really like how you took the time to test each o-ring on different switches, I know this took a lot of time and you did a very great, short and concise piece for us to use as a reference. Thank you for taking the time.
> 
> I do have one thing, though, and please don't take it personally, as that is not how I intend it, but I just wanted to put this out there for the thread to see&#8230;
> 
> This testing is all very subjective. While I have not tried the other o-rings, I currently have 50A-Rs on my CM Storm QF Pro with MX Browns at work and I love the way it feels. It takes out most of the noise, but still leaves the responsive click. Also, when I first got this keyboard, I found it almost painful to type on as I always used to bottom out the keys, and hitting bottom on these was very sudden and harsh. With the 50A-Rs it is quite the opposite. I find the keys feel softer when I do bottom them out and I find now my fingertips don't hurt after extended typing periods.
> 
> Now, to make sure I'm being completely clear, I've also learned, in the few weeks I've had the board, how to type correctly on it. I love the MX Browns (and MX Blues I have on my Ducky at home) because of the tactile feel. I've learned how to type on them efficiently without bottoming out the keys, at least not with every key press. I'm still learning (I've been using the boards for about a month now) how to properly type on both my mechanical keyboards, and it is taking me time to get my speed back (when trying to type by feeling the bump and moving on rather than bottoming out every key), but I can certainly tell a difference.
> 
> Anyway, back to my point at hand. While I applaud you for your testing and write up, and I think you did a great job, I just want to make sure that people remember, the feeling is subjective. What works for you may not work for me and vice versa. As it is with everyone.
> 
> Personally, I love the feel of the 50A-Rs on my MX Brown board, but I hated them on my MX Blue board and I'm considering trying different ones on that board. My point is, I feel exactly opposite as to how you do about the same thing, and I think other users may find this as well (while I'm sure others will completely agree with you and think I'm nuts, that's just the way it goes). So remember, feeling is subjective, and while you provide us with some really great information, each user will be different and may have different feelings.


Thanks for the input. It is subjective and everybody should test them for themselves. My goal was to give people a first idea of what to expect or help those who can't test them make a choice. Maybe I went a bit too far by making some of these recommendations (50A-R), but these were my impressions based on a direct comparison of all O-rings on all switches. That said, there are many variables my comparison lacks, such as long-term experience. Someone mentioned the black O-rings can soften up after a while, which could change a lot.

I will update my post and add a warning.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *villain*
> 
> Thanks for the input. It is subjective and everybody should test them for themselves. My goal was to give people a first idea of what to expect or help those who can't test them make a choice. Maybe I went a bit too far by making some of these recommendations (50A-R), but these were my impressions based on a direct comparison of all O-rings on all switches. That said, there are many variables my comparison lacks, such as long-term experience. Someone mentioned the black O-rings can soften up after a while, which could change a lot.
> 
> I will update my post and add a warning.


It is certainly subjective but your post helped me a lot. It was the first time I've seen anyone say the 50A puts more stress on your fingers from the landing than being without them, which was exactly what I felt. For me the 50A created a very hard and sudden landing on the Brown, Red, and Black switches, while just making Blue feel unpleasant and mushy.

As I wrote earlier, I went with your advice on trying the 40A-L and am very happy with the results. Thanks again!


----------



## mironccr345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *villain*
> 
> *Note: While this comparison can give you a general idea, it lacks many variables such as long-term experience or how the O-rings feel on different keyboards. The recommendations are based on my opinion.*
> 
> I spent some time testing the WASD O-rings on my 4 switches (MX Blue, MX Brown, MX Red, MX Black).
> 
> *40A-R*
> The keys are stopped very early and feel notably softer. Linear switches feel rather mushy. Tactile switches lose some of their crispness, especially MX Blues. I would only consider them on MX Browns, if at all.
> 
> *40A-L*
> They don't mess much with the feeling of the switches, but provide a great noise reduction and are easier on your fingers (compared to no O-rings). Overall a great choice, since they work well with all switches. Especially great with linear switches.
> 
> *50A-R*
> The keys land very early and rather hard. I'd say avoid them on light and/or linear switches, because they put a lot of stress on your finger tips (compared to no O-rings). On MX Blues they're bearable, provide a bit more feedback and make it easier to press the key repeatedly.
> 
> soft, 0.4 mm travel reduction, blue color
> soft, 0.2 mm travel reduction, red color
> hard, 0.4 mm travel reduction black color


The 40A-L are definitely the o-rings to use on a keyboard with Red switches. A lot better than the black o-rings. Thanks for helping make the switch.


----------



## fritx

Ok I spilled some milk in my keyboard is a Cooler Master Quickfire rapid blue switches is not that bad but they're were some problems with two switches the 0 and Letter P to be exact. I was reading the guide of how to clean your keyboard but I was wondering do I have to submerge the whole pcb to clean those switches or there is another way. The problem with those switches is that they're sticky, I already took apart everything I just want to see if there is another way to clean just those two. thanks

Btw I recorded a video so you can see better I hope this help


----------



## KipH

That would depend. If there is dried milk in the switch you may. But try getting in there with a cotton swab and iso or other no residue cleaner. Water even. Then lube them up.

I will be cleaning a bit myself soon.


----------



## fritx

Alright thanks I ended up doing anyways where can I get a lube for my keyboard? Should I use the one that they sell at elitekeyboards.com, but I would like to buy something that I get like in Wal-Mart or home depot etc I hate waiting lol

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


----------



## KipH

Any di-electric geese will work. Silicon, some mineral oils or similar. Do not use penetrating oil, or regular oil. This is the one time WD40 is not good.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Any di-electric *geese* will work. Silicon, some mineral oils or similar. Do not use penetrating oil, or regular oil. This is the one time WD40 is not good.


----------



## mironccr345

LOL ^^


----------



## fritx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Any di-electric geese will work. Silicon, some mineral oils or similar. Do not use penetrating oil, or regular oil. This is the one time WD40 is not good.


Is that only for the stabilizers or the switches too?


----------



## KipH

I follow the man rules. If it moves and it ain't supposed to: Duck Tape. If it don't move and it supposed ta: gRease. Although geese are good lube too, depending on where you apply them.

Lube it up.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> I follow the man rules. If it moves and it ain't supposed to: Duck Tape. If it don't move and it supposed ta: gRease. Although geese are good lube too, depending on where you apply them.
> 
> Lube it up.


Quack, quack!









It's not duck tape, it's *duct* tape. That's why the only color back in the old days was silver (it's for patching air ducts).


----------



## dan0964

Actually Duck is corrent too, as Duck is a brand of duct tape


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dan0964*
> 
> Actually Duck is corrent too, as Duck is a brand of duct tape


But that's just a fun brand name. It's still duct tape.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TwoCables*
> 
> Quack, quack!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not duck tape, it's *duct* tape. That's why the only color back in the old days was silver (it's for patching air ducts).




Yeah it's fairly common for people to call it "Duck tape". I used to think it was that when I was a younger.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah it's fairly common for people to call it "Duck tape". I used to think it was that when I was a younger.


Yeah, I know that. I was younger too. I think I even remember wondering why it's called "duck tape".

I was only giving him a hard time because of the "geese".


----------



## Crazy9000

The flamingo pink kind of takes away the manliness of the Duct Tape anyways.


----------



## KipH

I actually know that. It is duct because of the one use it has, sealing leaks in ducting. but it fit in with the poultry theme of the spalling errrror. Hukt ohn fonx wurkt four mee.


----------



## TwoCables

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> I actually know that. It is duct because of the one use it has, sealing leaks in ducting. but it fit in with the poultry theme of the spalling errrror. Hukt ohn fonx wurkt four mee.


Damn, I must be slipping. lol


----------



## sonarctica

Is it so that Quickfire TK MX brown only has white backlight? Or can i choose different colors too?

Cause i want brown since it's the balanced version, but then again i want either green or red backlight.


----------



## mironccr345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonarctica*
> 
> Is it so that Quickfire TK MX brown only has white backlight? Or can i choose different colors too?
> 
> Cause i want brown since it's the balanced version, but then again i want either green or red backlight.


They only come with white backlight.


----------



## KipH

If you can spend a bit more, there are Ducky with brown switch and just about any colour you want LED. Yea just have to look harder


----------



## lllFATAL1TY

hey guys,

i'll buy a new KB, but im with doubt between these 2 >

CM Storm Trigger
Corsair K70 Black

and too what Cherry MX > Brown or Red

what do u think ?

thx and sry for my poor english


----------



## dbrisc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lllFATAL1TY*
> 
> hey guys,
> 
> i'll buy a new KB, but im with doubt between these 2 >
> 
> CM Storm Trigger
> Corsair K70 Black
> 
> and too what Cherry MX > Brown or Red
> 
> what do u think ?
> 
> thx and sry for my poor english


You should post this in the mechanical keyboard suggestion thread! More people will see it there and probably a better chance of getting helped!


----------



## sonarctica

Hey, i just got the CM STORM quickfire TK cherry MX brown.

Is it possible to buy keycaps that has a specific colored "transparent" letters?

CAuse i wanted the mx brown but a red/green light under the keys.


----------



## mironccr345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonarctica*
> 
> Hey, i just got the CM STORM quickfire TK cherry MX brown.
> 
> Is it possible to buy keycaps that has a specific colored "transparent" letters?
> 
> CAuse i wanted the mx brown but a red/green light under the keys.


Here you go.









http://www.pimpmykeyboard.com/marketplace.php

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KBC-Semi-Clear-ABS-104-Keyset-Cherry-MX-Keycaps-/330853929008?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item4d086e5030


----------



## sonarctica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mironccr345*
> 
> Here you go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.pimpmykeyboard.com/marketplace.php
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/KBC-Semi-Clear-ABS-104-Keyset-Cherry-MX-Keycaps-/330853929008?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item4d086e5030


thanks, but i wanted a full set with red/green colored semi transparent letters, not semitransparent keys


----------



## germslopz

What an awesome thread, im new to the mechanical keyboard scene and im hoping these guides help me out. Thanks OP.


----------



## Zero4549

Does anyone know why my most frequently used keys on my board have a tendency to double, triple, or even quadruple click when I press them just once?

I know they don't last forever, but I've had rubber domes last far longer than this board has without becoming unreliable! It's almost once every 15 presses. I've had to manually correct the issue 3 times in the writing of this post alone.

Cherry MX Blue if it matters. Been using the board for about 3 years.


----------



## half bit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> Does anyone know why my most frequently used keys on my board have a tendency to double, triple, or even quadruple click when I press them just once?
> 
> I know they don't last forever, but I've had rubber domes last far longer than this board has without becoming unreliable! It's almost once every 15 presses. I've had to manually correct the issue 3 times in the writing of this post alone.
> 
> Cherry MX Blue if it matters. Been using the board for about 3 years.


I've had the same problem with the e and s key on my Blackwidow, also Blues, I completely opened and cleaned the switches and so far everything seems to be fine again.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *half bit*
> 
> I've had the same problem with the e and s key on my Blackwidow, also Blues, I completely opened and cleaned the switches and so far everything seems to be fine again.


How do you open the switches? I did a google search but came up with nothing useful


----------



## half bit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> How do you open the switches? I did a google search but came up with nothing useful


In my case I had to completely unsolder them since they are plate mounted, if you have PCB-mounted switches thought you can simply pop them open:


----------



## Zero4549

Bummer. My board is plate mounted and I'm not comfortable with desoldering and resoldering the switches. That, and I don't have the tools on hand or the slightest idea where to begin


----------



## KipH

Just give them a good cleaning and lube. Look for a switch cleaning guide if I or someone does not post one, there are a few out there, but I am on the phone.


----------



## Chipp

Hey folks - in case you missed it (I know I did!), this thread was featured as a helpful resource in Lifehacker's June article on Mechanical Keyboards. Well done!


----------



## KipH

At least they say where they stoled Ripsters gifs from if not who









Very nice guide. I always feel we had a part in helping Mech boards become more popular. I know everyone in Mech board production at Computex knows about this thread (and the others we have now).


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> At least they say where they stoled Ripsters gifs from if not who
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very nice guide. I always feel we had a part in helping Mech boards become more popular. I know everyone in Mech board production at Computex knows about this thread (and the others we have now).


The .GIFs were Lethal Squirrels (from Geekhack), not ripsters.


----------



## KipH

But but. I remember Ripser moaning about them, or something. OK. He was always moaning about something in between saying intelligent things about keyboards. Still, they remain almost un-credited. I wonder if they asked first.

And the article is a good reminder we need to update this thread.


----------



## Tator Tot

Another large update is in the works.

Also, if they did, they didn't ask Manyak or myself. They don't really need to, as they did accredit images & source material at the bottom of the article as well as through links.


----------



## zephah

Okay I've been reading the forum here for a few days now and I'm having an insanely hard time just sucking it up and picking something.

I'm primarily a gamer (I do my fair share of typing as most people do who spend a lot of time on the internet) but mainly just FPS (was a semi-pro CS 1.6 player and now play CS:GO) with some DoTA2 in the mix and some MMO's if I like spending some time wasting time.

Is there a surefire better mechanical switch for gaming? I see most pro gamers using red switches and very few using blue, so is red really that much better? Is either one more quiet than the other?

Honestly, I have about $80-90 to spend and I know that doesn't get me much, am I allowed to ask (sorry if this is in the wrong spot) for simply some recommendations?

I read the recommendations in a thread, but they seem to include recommendations assuming that you know what switch you want already. I'm not huge with peripherals so to me it's all a bit overwhelming >_>


----------



## KipH

Gaming you don't want a blue. It clicks and has a bump. But you need to let it all the way up before you hit it again. Slow double tap.
So no blue or green or clear/white for you.

Brown is no click but has a bump. Its OK for gaming.
Red is like a brown with softer springs and (to me) less bump. Good for gaming and touch typing if you have a light touch.

Black is the most common gamer switch. It feels most like a rubber dome to, so easy to adapt to. No click or bump. A good choice.

So you have the choice of black or red I guess. Do you type lightly ore hit hard? Red/black









In your price you are looking at a Coolermaster QF rapid or one of its variations. TK for lighting and the new stealthed version looks nice. Easy to resell if you hate them.
Or something from Rosewill. They have some good value in black. Do they have red? Not sure. But if you want lights and black they are a good choice.

After you get one, start saving your monies, you will want more HAHAHAHAHAHAHAaaa aa....

One of us! One of us...


----------



## zephah

Hahaha, I'm actually a network specialist in my day life, I just haven't joined the mechanical revolution yet, and since my keyboard is on it's last life, I think it's about time to get with the program









Do I have to buy a silent version of a keyboard to ensure that it is more quiet? Or is there some sort of accessory that will allow any keyboard to do it?

People "tell" me that I'm a loud typer, but I really don't think it's as much that as I type quickly, so they're just hearing buttons essentially being mashed because I type much quicker than most people.

After reading your comment I did some googling and am now nervous that Red might just be too sensitive and would result in accidental key presses a lot ;_;


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zephah*
> 
> Okay I've been reading the forum here for a few days now and I'm having an insanely hard time just sucking it up and picking something.
> 
> I'm primarily a gamer (I do my fair share of typing as most people do who spend a lot of time on the internet) but mainly just FPS (was a semi-pro CS 1.6 player and now play CS:GO) with some DoTA2 in the mix and some MMO's if I like spending some time wasting time.
> 
> Is there a surefire better mechanical switch for gaming? I see most pro gamers using red switches and very few using blue, so is red really that much better? Is either one more quiet than the other?
> 
> Honestly, I have about $80-90 to spend and I know that doesn't get me much, am I allowed to ask (sorry if this is in the wrong spot) for simply some recommendations?
> 
> I read the recommendations in a thread, but they seem to include recommendations assuming that you know what switch you want already. I'm not huge with peripherals so to me it's all a bit overwhelming >_>


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Gaming you don't want a blue. It clicks and has a bump. But you need to let it all the way up before you hit it again. Slow double tap.
> So no blue or green or clear/white for you.
> 
> Brown is no click but has a bump. Its OK for gaming.
> Red is like a brown with softer springs and (to me) less bump. Good for gaming and touch typing if you have a light touch.
> 
> Black is the most common gamer switch. It feels most like a rubber dome to, so easy to adapt to. No click or bump. A good choice.
> 
> So you have the choice of black or red I guess. Do you type lightly ore hit hard? Red/black
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In your price you are looking at a Coolermaster QF rapid or one of its variations. TK for lighting and the new stealthed version looks nice. Easy to resell if you hate them.
> Or something from Rosewill. They have some good value in black. Do they have red? Not sure. But if you want lights and black they are a good choice.
> 
> After you get one, start saving your monies, you will want more HAHAHAHAHAHAHAaaa aa....
> 
> One of us! One of us...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zephah*
> 
> Hahaha, I'm actually a network specialist in my day life, I just haven't joined the mechanical revolution yet, and since my keyboard is on it's last life, I think it's about time to get with the program
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do I have to buy a silent version of a keyboard to ensure that it is more quiet? Or is there some sort of accessory that will allow any keyboard to do it?
> 
> People "tell" me that I'm a loud typer, but I really don't think it's as much that as I type quickly, so they're just hearing buttons essentially being mashed because I type much quicker than most people.
> 
> After reading your comment I did some googling and am now nervous that Red might just be too sensitive and would result in accidental key presses a lot ;_;


Ok first there is absolutely nothing wrong with clears and browns for gaming. Despite being tactile like blues and greens, they lack the sliding piece that produces the "click" sound, and the issues associated with that piece for gaming and reliability.

Even greens and blues are perfectly fine for gaming as long as they are in good condition and the user allows the switch to fully or near-fully release before depressing it again. It's perfectly possibly to quickly double tap with them. Of course, there are users who are either not used to or not willing to do so, for these users green and blue switches would not be desirable for gaming.

Ok, so with that out of the way, you need to either have some idea of what you would like, or go try some out for yourself to find out. Here are some general pieces of info. I'm not well versed in all the different alps clones and variants, so please exclude their exclusion.

Quiet: Cherry Red, Black, Linear Grey, most other linear switches (uncommon), rubber domes, scissor switches.
(Other than really minor friction noises, you shouldn't hear _anything_ from these switches unless you fully bottom out with at least a little bit of force.)

Quiet: Cherry Brown, Clear, Topre, most other tactile but non-clicky switches (uncommon).

Medium : Cherry White, other "soft click" switches (I don't personally know of any).

Loud: Cherry Blue, Green, Buckling Springs, clicky Alps (Black, I think?).
(These not only have louder noise due to operation, but also actively and intentionally produce a second noise with each key press).

If you want to make any key quieter than it normally is, you can buy orings or foam pads to greatly dampen both the sound and the sharp feel of bottoming out. This will NOT affect key friction/switching noise, or clicks produced by clicky switches.

Another thing to keep in mind is weight. As far as common cherry switches go, from lightest to heaviest (peak), it is red, brown, blue, black, clear, green, grey.

Then there is tactility. Reds, blacks, and browns are non-tactile, non-clicky. You don't feel or hear anything as you press them, other than gradually increasing resistance, until you fully bottom out. You cannot feel when the switch is actually actuated. Browns, Whites, Blues, Greens, and Clears are tactile (in order of increasing tactility), which means you can feel a "bump" when the key actuates, allowing the user to stop pressing at that point.

Lastly, Blues and Greens are also clicky, so you can _hear_ the point at which the key actuates.

Some people prefer the feedback of tactile/clicky. Others find it distracting or just don't care for it. Generally, linear switch users fully bottom out their keys, and sometimes do not fully release them. Tactile/clicky key users on the other hand have the option of not bottoming out, but tend to fully or near fully release.

So, with all that info, hopefully you can narrow your search down a bit. Only you can really say what your preference is. If you want my _personal_ preferences, I don't like blacks, greys, or browns at all. Everything else has a place.


----------



## KipH

That was some good info he put there. Mostly what I said, just with more details to confuse you more









Yes, mine is the simplified version.

Sound: 2 sources. 1 is the key switch itself. Like a blue or the old great IBM model M. The sharp click makes you feel like you are typing!
Then there is the bottom out thunk. This is the part that can be softened with O rings or dampers or typing better. If you are doing this on a rubber dome... Get a black and add the softest thinnest O rings you can get. Black can't take too much O ringing or it just feels like a rubber dome. (o rings form WASD work well)

Hope that helps.


----------



## WonderMutt

Guys, I need some help. I bought a Ducky Shine 2 a few months back and the LEDs started acting up. Someone told me that MechanicalKeyboards.com handles the RMAs for Ducky in the US, so I contacted them, and sure enough, they said they do handle the RMAs (even though I bought it somewhere else). Anyway, after a couple weeks of emails back and forth, they told me to send the keyboard to a Ducky Tech in California (MechanicalKeyboards.com in based in TN, so I thought this was kinda weird, but whatever). They gave me an address to send it to and I did. I got a confirmation email on 07/02/13 from UPS that the keyboard was delivered. Since then I have emailed the guy from MK.com 3 times and have received no response. I then tried to contact MK.com directly via their website (last week) and also have not received any response.

I'm not sure what to do. I paid $150 for the keyboard and now I have none and I can't seem to reach anyone at MK.com now!? What would you guys suggest? I'm at a loss and I'm pretty peeved at this point.

EDIT:

So I found a phone number on MK.com to call them, when I did, the guy explained to me that repairs through the Ducky Tech in CA usually take 4-8 weeks from delivery before it is shipped, so total time back to me in OH should be 5-9 weeks. He was able to tell me who the tech was that is working on it and he is going to contact the tech to try to let me know when I should expect it back. So with that, I should have the keyboard back by September 4th (9 weeks) at the latest. We'll see what happes.

On a side note to anyone buying a Ducky keyboard who lives in the US or Canada, the guy at MK.com told me that Ducky on has 1 tech in the US to handle all repairs for any Ducky keyboard in the US or Canada(which is why it takes so long).

Now, I'm not saying to not buy a Ducky keyboard, I loved mine (besides the LED issue with mine, which I've found was unique since I can't find anyone else who has had a similar issue). It was great quality, a joy to type on, and until the LEDs decided to have a mind of their own, the LEDs were awesome. I'm just posting this for informational purposes.

Anyway, I might go to microcenter and pick me up a Ducky Zero to tide me over until I get the Shine 2 back...


----------



## NFF

thoughts on the azio levetron clicker for $50cad shipped ?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NFF*
> 
> thoughts on the azio levetron clicker for $50cad shipped ?


Decent value, alps switches, nothing spectacular.


----------



## NFF

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Decent value, alps switches, nothing spectacular.


compared to a dell quiet key?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NFF*
> 
> compared to a dell quiet key?


Switches are not as smooth, nor is it built as well. Though it is fairly well built and the switches are not horrible. XM Clicky Alps type, roughly 60cN of force required to actuate them.

It's a smaller board though, but the key layout is slightly different since it has the ISO layout.


----------



## NFF

im just glad its got the big backspace. i cant stand the small backspace.

aparently they are 70g ? due to the switch name.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NFF*
> 
> im just glad its got the big backspace. i cant stand the small backspace.
> 
> aparently they are 70g ? due to the switch name.


Should only be 60, you can give'm a good ole rip'o'meter test when you get it.

XM Alps very more than Cherry MX due though.


----------



## NFF

there two versions (hopefully i get the newer version)

old vr comes with 6 key rollover. and APC BSW 055WH switches (55g)

new is 18 key rollover and APC BSW 070WH switches (70g)

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Taiwan_Tai-Hao_APC_series


----------



## Zero4549

I'd just like to say that spraying some DeoxIT D5 into my cherry blue switches completely solved both the bounce issue, and the issue with one of the switches having no tactile feel/click sound.


----------



## fritx

Hello I have an issue with my keyboard is not that big but it bothers me, well the thing is that like a month ago I spilled some milk on my keyboard. I clean it right away but obviously some milk went through the keys specially "L, Comma, Dot, and 9." I did submerge my entire keyboard in distilled water and press the switches to clean everything inside let it dry and everything you know the drill. The thing is that those keys doesn't sound as it used to be before, they don't make that "Click click click" anymore. I was thinking probably they need some lubrication? IDK if I'm right but that's why I am asking you guys, I hope I made myself clear enough


----------



## JAM3S121

I just got a cm storm quick fire pro (tkl model) and its great but microcenter had a open box (was still in perfect condition) with blue switcehs.. very loud compared to blacks. What color o rings should I get to reduce?


----------



## anoob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fritx*
> 
> Hello I have an issue with my keyboard is not that big but it bothers me, well the thing is that like a month ago I spilled some milk on my keyboard. I clean it right away but obviously some milk went through the keys specially "L, Comma, Dot, and 9." I did submerge my entire keyboard in distilled water and press the switches to clean everything inside let it dry and everything you know the drill. The thing is that those keys doesn't sound as it used to be before, they don't make that "Click click click" anymore. I was thinking probably they need some lubrication? IDK if I'm right but that's why I am asking you guys, I hope I made myself clear enough


Did you wash with soap and water? Submerging it into distilled water isn't going to move the fat and minerals in milk that got in your keys.


----------



## fritx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anoob*
> 
> Did you wash with soap and water? Submerging it into distilled water isn't going to move the fat and minerals in milk that got in your keys.


Just distilled water I'll just have to do it this weekend and see what happens ?


----------



## NFF

finally got my levetron clicker.
couldent stand the wasd keys for typeing so i moved them over to the tenkey and now my keybaord is q8erty and 456f lol




from the 10 minutes i'v use the keyboard i can say i like it. its got a nice click noise to it when typing lightly and a klack when you bottom out.


----------



## Paradigm84

KitGuru are advertising this guide on their Facebook.


----------



## stevebd62

I'm considering getting a mechanical keyboard but how can I determine which keyswitch would be best suited for me without having the different types available to "test drive" as would have to order online and this is a fairly expensive investment for me?


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stevebd62*
> 
> I'm considering getting a mechanical keyboard but how can I determine which keyswitch would be best suited for me without having the different types available to "test drive" as would have to order online and this is a fairly expensive investment for me?


The Max Keyboard samplers are only $8, other than that we could suggest one by what you'll be using the board for.


If you're going to be primarily using the board for programming/ word processing rather than gaming and don't mind the click, MX Blues are a good option.
If you're going to be using the board primarily for gaming or you're not worried about touch-typing, then MX Reds/ MX Blacks are a good choice, MX Blacks if you're quite a heavy-handed typist, MX Reds if you're not worried about accidental keypresses due to the lightness of the switch.
MX Browns are a good middle ground for people who might be using the board for gaming and typing, but not necessarily want the click of the MX Blues.

That being said, these are generalisations, some people like MX Blues for gaming and some others like MX Blacks for typing, it's all down to personal preference. There are also less widely available options such as MX Clears MX Whites and MX Greens.

From the data collected from the Mechanical Keyboard Club, this is a breakdown of the most popular switch types for general use:


----------



## stevebd62

Thanks I'll order one of those first.


----------



## Xanatos

is there a switch that's linear but in-between the mx black and mx red in force?


----------



## excaka

so whats the best mech keyboard? getting one soon just cant decide.


----------



## Marin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *excaka*
> 
> so whats the best mech keyboard? getting one soon just cant decide.


There's no best.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xanatos*
> 
> is there a switch that's linear but in-between the mx black and mx red in force?


Not a standard one, no.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *excaka*
> 
> so whats the best mech keyboard? getting one soon just cant decide.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *excaka*
> 
> so whats the best mech keyboard? getting one soon just cant decide.
> 
> 
> 
> There's no best.
Click to expand...

What Marin said, it's completely subjective.


----------



## anoob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *excaka*
> 
> so whats the best mech keyboard? getting one soon just cant decide.


The best one is the one you like with the features you wanted. As for quality I don't know there a lot more companies trying to grab a piece of that mechanical keyboard market. Some have bad quality control.


----------



## waqiabbs

You won't ever see something this simple in a keyboard, but for our purposes it's more than enough.great


----------



## stevebd62

Just orderered the coolermaster storm rapid w/MX Cherry black hope it's worth it.


----------



## brownbeer

I want to change the keyswitches of my Corsair K70 from red to brown. I that possible without soldering?
Is it possible to put LEDs in the new keyswitches?

Thx!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brownbeer*
> 
> I want to change the keyswitches of my Corsair K70 from red to brown. I that possible without soldering?
> Is it possible to put LEDs in the new keyswitches?
> 
> Thx!


You'll have to solder to change plate mounted switches, like the ones in the K70.

like wise, you have to solder to change the LEDs, but both are possible.


----------



## Jayjr1105

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stevebd62*
> 
> Just orderered the coolermaster storm rapid w/MX Cherry black hope it's worth it.


How are you liking the blacks? I have a Tt Meka trade pending. The blacks were nice but I'm a tactile guy.


----------



## stevebd62

Got it in last night and am loving it. They feel real good for me typing, no stress to my fingers yet anyway, I'm really heavy fingered so it feels like I'm barely brushing them when I can go to the next key.


----------



## undertaken316

I'm testing these days the SS 6GV2 mech keyboard that features cherry black switches. So far it produces less sound thatn the cherry red and blue ones that I had in the past (Razer BlackWidow)


----------



## EarlZ

I just got a ducky shine 3 to replace my Black Widow Ultimate and I could not remember if my BWU was this stiff ( with the key press ) when typing, I like the minimalistic look and also how supports on the space bar.


----------



## Jayjr1105

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EarlZ*
> 
> I just got a ducky shine 3 to replace my Black Widow Ultimate and I could not remember if my BWU was this stiff ( with the key press ) when typing, I like the minimalistic look and also how supports on the space bar.


What switch type was the BWU and what is the DS3?


----------



## EarlZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jayjr1105*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *EarlZ*
> 
> I just got a ducky shine 3 to replace my Black Widow Ultimate and I could not remember if my BWU was this stiff ( with the key press ) when typing, I like the minimalistic look and also how supports on the space bar.
> 
> 
> 
> What switch type was the BWU and what is the DS3?
Click to expand...

Blue on both


----------



## Razersky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *undertaken316*
> 
> I'm testing these days the SS 6GV2 mech keyboard that features cherry black switches. So far it produces less sound thatn the cherry red and blue ones that I had in the past (Razer BlackWidow)


i have this keybord, and it's awesome







better that razer..


----------



## Recipe7

I'm new to the concept of these mechanical keyboards. I'm trying to absorb the information on the first post, there is so much information.

I am currently using my 10 year old Logitech MX3100 wireless mouse and keyboard. I am now looking for an upgrade.

I do want to maintain a wireless setup, however. Are there any wireless mechanical keyboards? If so, which ones are the closest to silent?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Recipe7*
> 
> I'm new to the concept of these mechanical keyboards. I'm trying to absorb the information on the first post, there is so much information.
> 
> I am currently using my 10 year old Logitech MX3100 wireless mouse and keyboard. I am now looking for an upgrade.
> 
> I do want to maintain a wireless setup, however. Are there any wireless mechanical keyboards? If so, which ones are the closest to silent?


KBTalKing Pro with Soft Landing Pads

Switch choice is up to you, I'd suggest reading the guide to help but the MX-Brown & MX-Red will be the quiet switches. MX-Reds are linear and lighter while MX-Browns are Tactile and a bit heavier making them feel closer to a rubber dome switch due to the bump mid-way.


----------



## LukaTCE

Is Cherry G81-3000 worth 50€ ?

http://www.mimovrste.com/artikel/2260010718/napisi-mnenje/tipkovnica-cherry-g81-3000-bela-slo#galerija


----------



## entreri00

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> KBTalKing Pro with Soft Landing Pads
> 
> Switch choice is up to you, I'd suggest reading the guide to help but the MX-Brown & MX-Red will be the quiet switches. MX-Reds are linear and lighter while MX-Browns are Tactile and a bit heavier making them feel closer to a rubber dome switch due to the bump mid-way.


I'd almost say the Red is closer. I just did a quick comparison with all 3. No real bump in the rubber although it's subtle any way you slice it. It's just that bottom hit of the rubber that makes it feel inferior on a healthy one.


----------



## KipH

That Cherry will be a nice board. Simple and tough. They usually are for industry or POS. 50 Euro is a lot? It should be more than $80 and less than $100us to be good, depending on switch.


----------



## Tagkaman

Hey guys. Just a quick question: what switch is this?


----------



## Crazy9000

Looks like a rubber dome.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tagkaman*
> 
> Hey guys. Just a quick question: what switch is this?


Rubber Dome. Just a fancy housing sitting above to make key-swapping easier on the OEM.


----------



## Tagkaman

I thought as much. It was advertised as mechanical at the store: lucky I checked here. Thanks.


----------



## Ovrclck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> That Cherry will be a nice board. Simple and tough. They usually are for industry or POS. 50 Euro is a lot? It should be more than $80 and less than $100us to be good, depending on switch.


The POS company I work for just threw away hundreds of those Cherry's. Most had the MSR's built in..doh!!

*Edit*
I managed to find a couple.


Clear switches? This is from the Cherry G81-7000LPBUS/04


----------



## KipH

I am thinking that is an MY switch. A rubber dome. Sorry.
But clean em up and you can still sell em for a bit. Retrobrite or simple green are your friends








But your not rich.


----------



## Ovrclck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> I am thinking that is an MY switch. A rubber dome. Sorry.
> But clean em up and you can still sell em for a bit. Retrobrite or simple green are your friends
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But your not rich.


How much can those sale for? $5? I'm not looking to get rich or anything lol.


----------



## frag85

I currently have 4 different switch types here for review purposes (I can post the review here on OCN too if there is interest). Black, Blue, Brown and Red. I really wanted to get some clears, but they are difficult to find and the CODE keyboard is delayed 12-14 months.

So far for gaming I love *Reds*. At first I found them _too_ soft, but after a couple weeks I loved them. By too soft I mean I was activating keys when I didn't mean to and I had the habit of resting my left thumb on the spacebar, and the weight of my thumb is enough to activate a red switch. I was bottoming them out constantly after using a membrane keyboard over the past couple years that required some keys to be almost hammered down to activate. I noticed while resting fingers on certain keys and pressing others sometimes I would accidentally activate the resting finger's keys, but I got used to this over a couple weeks.

I thought I'd like *blacks* more as I was coming from the softness of reds and a 10 year streak of cheap membrane keyboards so I thought I was a heavy typer. But they weren't what I expected. Maybe a little too stiff. I like blacks but I would not choose to keep a keyboard of all blacks. To me backspace feels like a chore, as does spacebar and a few pinky keys to some degree. I found myself really hammering away at the keyboard, almost needed to bottom out, but that could just be from getting used to soft Red linear switches. I'm sure I could get used to blacks with some more usage. If there was an affordable way of trying a hybrid keyboard of blacks (60cN), Reds (45cN) and something in between like a hybrid linear switch using a Blue (50cN) or Clear(55cN) spring, it might be the perfect gaming and overall keyboard for me.

*Blues* are just plane amazing to type on (coincidentally, this is the cheapest keyboard I have here, and a switch type that does not cost extra from most manufacturers). While I'm not fond of the CLICK-the pitch just CUTS through everything around me, you are positive when the key actuates. I type without any typos. Its hard to explain, but they just feel right. It could be from learning to type and typing on buckling spring keyboards for so long (IBM Model M). I have not yet gamed on Blues, so we'll see.

*Browns* are alright. The bump is good if you touch type, and don't want the click of the blues. The actuation force is nice. While the spring is the same as Reds, the tactile bump gives a little bit of resistance so it feels like a very solid key. The first thing I noticed though, is they almost feel like a dirty key. Like a dirty linear key with how the resistance of the bump feels. I'm not sure if I'd pick a keyboard with browns if Reds or Blues were available, but I wouldn't remove a keyboard from my list because of the browns.

Switch types are just a huge personal preference. You have to find what you like, which is why I wanted to spend a couple weeks with the more common switches.


----------



## frag85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BGKris*
> 
> How much can those sale for? $5? I'm not looking to get rich or anything lol.


Cherry KB's fetch quite a premium. Check ebay. I'm seeing $45-100 for good-excellent. Double that for new.
If its dirty like that, maybe 1/2 that if even. Clean it up, sell it, and ge the keyboard you want


----------



## Ovrclck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frag85*
> 
> Cherry KB's fetch quite a premium. Check ebay. I'm seeing $45-100 for good-excellent. Double that for new.
> If its dirty like that, maybe 1/2 that if even. Clean it up, sell it, and ge the keyboard you want


Thanks man! Ebay looks promising. Nothing a bit of simple green and a DataVac can't clean up.


----------



## Crazy9000

Most of those cherry boards are only worth that much for the cherry switches, or the key caps if they have nice ones.


----------



## frag85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crazy9000*
> 
> Most of those cherry boards are only worth that much for the cherry switches, or the key caps if they have nice ones.


Pretty much.


----------



## GRQ

Guys, I need your suggestion on a keyboard based on these characteristics:

More for typing pleasure, less for games;
Silent (i.e. not Cherry MX Blue or DAS type);
Sturdy build (aluminum in some parts perhaps);
Clean and "minimalistic" one (don't care for macros)
I felt like *Corsair K70 w/ Cherry MX Brown* switches is a keyboard to go for. Pretty much perfect choice but recently I've read numerous posts saying how faulty most of them are, as well as persistent LED outage and lots of RMAs going by.

So, now I'm thinking of getting a Ducky, Matias Quiet Pro or Filco one; I will appreciate your input on these ones or perhaps you might point me out another one based on what mentioned afore.


----------



## nonamed

DAS Keyboard with Cherry MX Brown - is not loud .


----------



## KipH

You can find some cheaper browns on banggood.com. They Keycool is good. I am using their blue right now.

Or, go the other way, spend a lot and get a Topre typing heaven







..

Topre / Realforce Type Heaven Mechanical Keyboard (Topre 45)


----------



## frag85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRQ*
> 
> Guys, I need your suggestion on a keyboard based on these characteristics:
> 
> More for typing pleasure, less for games;
> Silent (i.e. not Cherry MX Blue or DAS type);
> Sturdy build (aluminum in some parts perhaps);
> Clean and "minimalistic" one (don't care for macros)
> I felt like *Corsair K70 w/ Cherry MX Brown* switches is a keyboard to go for. Pretty much perfect choice but recently I've read numerous posts saying how faulty most of them are, as well as persistent LED outage and lots of RMAs going by.
> 
> So, now I'm thinking of getting a Ducky, Matias Quiet Pro or Filco one; I will appreciate your input on these ones or perhaps you might point me out another one based on what mentioned afore.


I have a *CMStorm Quickfire XT* with browns that I'm selling from a keyboard/cherryMX switch article/review I'm writing. You might want to look as this board. The QF isn't backlit or anything fancy, just a straight up 104 key keyboard. I love that it is just a plain old keyboard, no gimmicks.

I also had a QF Rapid with blacks and QF Stealth with blues I just sold. I loved that the browns feel like Reds, but you have a slight tactile bump, but the blues were my favorite, but the clicky-ness was pretty loud. You can't really beat the QF's when it comes to price and quality I had a Compared to my WASD v2, its a very high build quality. CMSTorms and WASD are Costar keyboards, who also make filco and a few others. The CMStorm Quickfires came in the exact same packaging as the WASD even. Pretty good keyboard for $100.


----------



## GRQ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frag85*
> 
> I have a *CMStorm Quickfire XT* with browns that I'm selling from a keyboard/cherryMX switch article/review I'm writing. You might want to look as this board. The QF isn't backlit or anything fancy, just a straight up 104 key keyboard. I love that it is just a plain old keyboard, no gimmicks.
> 
> I also had a QF Rapid with blacks and QF Stealth with blues I just sold. I loved that the browns feel like Reds, but you have a slight tactile bump, but the blues were my favorite, but the clicky-ness was pretty loud. You can't really beat the QF's when it comes to price and quality I had a Compared to my WASD v2, its a very high build quality. CMSTorms and WASD are Costar keyboards, who also make filco and a few others. The CMStorm Quickfires came in the exact same packaging as the WASD even. Pretty good keyboard for $100.


Thanks for your input man, I was considering QF Stealth since I hate the font Cooler Master uses as a corporate one for CM Storm keyboards. Same for Razer.

Although you can't get enough reviews when you are after them, you know? I've read some negatives one at Newegg mainly saying about keys not working etc. but overall much less negative responses vs LED outage at Corsair keyboards.


----------



## frag85

That was my concern about buying a keyboard. So many negative reviews on boards coming to a market to hop on the mechanical craze. Its good that they are becoming more affordable, but look at the completely terrible quality some are. I have an IBM Model M that is as old as I am (from the mid 80's) and it still works fine. The double edged sword of mechanical keyboards making a comeback is that the market is getting flooded with everyone trying to cash in, and quality has suffered. A couple months ago I had bought an MSI keyboard, which is a rebranded IONE along with a few other friends at the same time. We all had keys fail within weeks. I opted to completely return mine because that is when I found countless negative reviews of the same problem caused by shoddy build quality. Are you going to spend $50-75 more than once? Or have to keep dealing with getting it replaced? What happens when the warranty runs out--you just lost that investment. CMStorms are very nicely priced for quality if you get a few years out of them. I would want them to last 5+ years. Hopefully this WASD is the last keyboard I buy for a while. 2 of the CMStorms I sold to friends that use them a lot so I'll be able to keep a tab on them. The other big factor for me was looking at how much time I spend using the keyboard. We're talking hours a day. I want that to be an enjoyable experience. Cheaping out on a keyboard, having to deal with keys not always activating, having to slam them down or having it basically wear out after a couple years is an inconvenience. Buy the right _quality_ tool for the job. It has served my business well for the past 10 years, and those I have worked with and for (contracting-construction-custom furniture-firefighting).


----------



## GRQ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frag85*
> 
> That was my concern about buying a keyboard. So many negative reviews on boards coming to a market to hop on the mechanical craze. Its good that they are becoming more affordable, but look at the completely terrible quality some are. I have an IBM Model M that is as old as I am (from the mid 80's) and it still works fine. The double edged sword of mechanical keyboards making a comeback is that the market is getting flooded with everyone trying to cash in, and quality has suffered. A couple months ago I had bought an MSI keyboard, which is a rebranded IONE along with a few other friends at the same time. We all had keys fail within weeks. I opted to completely return mine because that is when I found countless negative reviews of the same problem caused by shoddy build quality. Are you going to spend $50-75 more than once? Or have to keep dealing with getting it replaced? What happens when the warranty runs out--you just lost that investment. CMStorms are very nicely priced for quality if you get a few years out of them. I would want them to last 5+ years. Hopefully this WASD is the last keyboard I buy for a while. 2 of the CMStorms I sold to friends that use them a lot so I'll be able to keep a tab on them. The other big factor for me was looking at how much time I spend using the keyboard. We're talking hours a day. I want that to be an enjoyable experience. Cheaping out on a keyboard, having to deal with keys not always activating, having to slam them down or having it basically wear out after a couple years is an inconvenience. Buy the right _quality_ tool for the job. It has served my business well for the past 10 years, and those I have worked with and for (contracting-construction-custom furniture-firefighting).


Hey man, nice to hear that you found out a keyboard that suits you and doesn't prove itself too much faulty as well. Actually, I might go for it then! Even thou I might not need all those LEDs backlit 90% of time on defective K70s but the feeling of getting semi-working unpolished product is saddens me greatly.


----------



## connectwise

Where does the term topre come from?


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> Where does the term topre come from?


http://www.topre.co.jp/e_index.html

Them is nice keyboards.


----------



## connectwise

Sure but it doesn't say where the term topre comes from. Weird term.


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> Sure but it doesn't say where the term topre comes from. Weird term.


Tokyo Press, it's just the companies name.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> Sure but it doesn't say where the term topre comes from. Weird term.


As Crazy said, it's a combination of Tokyo & Press which is the name of the company (Tokyo Press.)

It's rather common for Japanese terminology to have two words smashed together like that. Especially if they can get a double meaning out of them.


----------



## pcmonky

Hey everyone!

Wish I read this thread sooner.

Some info before I ask a question. I currently own a corsair K60 and thought it was awesome up until I saw this thread. I'm looking for a new keyboard at the moment for several reasons:

1. I don't like the silver on the K60 as everything on my desk is black.

2. I want a backlit keyboard as I usually game at night and have trouble finding certain keys while gaming.

Initially I was going to get the corsair K70 as its all black and backlit but it seems the led's don't last very long on it based off reviews.

With that said I went through the list of keyboards listed in this thread and saw the Ducky Zero DK2108S.

I wanted to get your opinion on this board and if you think its a good fit. Ill be using it for gaming, I don't do much typing, prefer to have a windows key lockout button, all black board, and backlit.

Thanks


----------



## KipH

The list here is a biiiiit old. There are some other great threads here on OCN with newer info.

But:
Ducky Zero is not the one to get. The year of Snake or Ducky 3 would be better.
Rosewill has some good ones for less.
Coolermaster has many choices now, the QuickFire is still a good one if you like 10key less.
There are even a few KeyKool boards on BangGood if you can wait for the free shipping









If you have some extra cash, look up Topre / Realforce Type Heaven. Its a dream to type in. http://www.overclock.net/t/1432221/topre-realforce-vs-type-heaven/0_50


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcmonky*
> 
> Hey everyone!
> 
> Wish I read this thread sooner.
> 
> Some info before I ask a question. I currently own a corsair K60 and thought it was awesome up until I saw this thread. I'm looking for a new keyboard at the moment for several reasons:
> 
> 1. I don't like the silver on the K60 as everything on my desk is black.
> 
> 2. I want a backlit keyboard as I usually game at night and have trouble finding certain keys while gaming.
> 
> Initially I was going to get the corsair K70 as its all black and backlit but it seems the led's don't last very long on it based off reviews.
> 
> With that said I went through the list of keyboards listed in this thread and saw the Ducky Zero DK2108S.
> 
> I wanted to get your opinion on this board and if you think its a good fit. Ill be using it for gaming, I don't do much typing, prefer to have a windows key lockout button, all black board, and backlit.
> 
> Thanks


There are some possibilities here.


----------



## GRQ

Guys, who tested out new Roccat Ryos MK?


----------



## Jodiuh

OMG! I'm freaking out! I currently have a backlit Logitech Illuminated Keyboard, but tried out a friend's "cherry MX blacks...I think?" and LOVED the feel!

But damn them Ducky Shine 3's are like $250!!!

Red or brown? Brown or red?!

Based on this chart: http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/mechanical_switches.php

I went w/ this keyboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823129005&RandomID=599121742615519220131105073806


----------



## mestido

Just got: Corsair Vengeance K65 Compact Mechanical



Feels so good, a bit loud but who cares


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jodiuh*
> 
> OMG! I'm freaking out! I currently have a backlit Logitech Illuminated Keyboard, but tried out a friend's "cherry MX blacks...I think?" and LOVED the feel!
> 
> But damn them Ducky Shine 3's are like $250!!!
> 
> Red or brown? Brown or red?!
> 
> Based on this chart: http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/mechanical_switches.php
> 
> I went w/ this keyboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823129005&RandomID=599121742615519220131105073806


Ducky Shine 3's aren't quite that expensive.

Regardless, the Quick Fire Rapid is a good choice.


----------



## KipH

I was going to say just what @Paradigm84 said








Duckies should be under $150. But the QFR is a good little board. I have 2, a red and a brown









Just wait till the itch comes to buy more. First one is logical, all the rest you will buy makes you one off us LOL (insert evil laugh here)


----------



## gizmo J

I did some research on mechanical keyboards and it doesn't seem to me that it is an advantage.

I think most pros use it not because it "performs" better, but because its more durable.

You see, I remember back when quake was starting out, most competitive players would buy the cheapest keyboard they can find because there keyboards would constantly wear out, and when it does they replace it with another keyboard, and they would do this over and over again.

But playing on a new keyboard that your not used to can "throw you off" which is why nowadays they would buy a mechanical keyboard so they can use it for a very long time and would feel less "thrown off"....


----------



## KipH

Yes, that is part of it. And they are very consistent.
But there is also an ability to fine tune, granted that means picking a switch, to the type of typing you do.
I used to think the same as you, I thought my Logitech G15 was a good keyboard. Now when I have to type on a rubber dome I can feel it.
Its like the difference between auto and manual shifting in cars. Both will change gears, but one is more fun and can drift


----------



## mironccr345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mestido*
> 
> Just got: Corsair Vengeance K65 Compact Mechanical
> 
> 
> 
> Feels so good, a bit loud but who cares


I'm not gonna lie, that looks good.


----------



## PowerSlide

can't decide between kbt pure pro or leopold fc 660m, yes both is non standard replacing keycaps is hard but thats not the issue

decision is hard when can only afford one


----------



## frag85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gizmo J*
> 
> I did some research on mechanical keyboards and it doesn't seem to me that it is an advantage.
> 
> I think most pros use it not because it "performs" better, but because its more durable.
> 
> You see, I remember back when quake was starting out, most competitive players would buy the cheapest keyboard they can find because there keyboards would constantly wear out, and when it does they replace it with another keyboard, and they would do this over and over again.
> 
> But playing on a new keyboard that your not used to can "throw you off" which is why nowadays they would buy a mechanical keyboard so they can use it for a very long time and would feel less "thrown off"....


For me its the feel. I learned to type on a buckling spring IBM Model M (and whatever the IBM PC clone, Apple IIe and Macintosh used) in the 80's and used the Model M through most of the 90's. On those keyboards, and a Cherry switch board like Blues I make far less mistakes and can easily type faster, with less mistakes. That tactile feel and audible click is very reassuring for typing confidence.

When I started using cheap $10-50 rubber membrane keyboards about 13 years ago or so, I never liked the feel. They just felt cheap. And you get what you pay for. I was replacing my keyboard every 2 years, 4 years at best. My latest membrane keyboard is a G15 I got only because it was at a good price and after 2 years that 'gaming' keyboard started to wear out. They keyboard is now 4 or 5 years old and just sits as a backup in case something were to happen to my mechanical. It still works OK if I needed it, but some keys require more force to activate, sometimes keys seem like they don't activate when they should, the keys didn't all stay level, the wider keys are inconsistent in force that is needed to press them, and I won't even get into the ghosting that membrane keyboards exhibit-which is different from board to board depending how it was designed. At least with a mechanical I know if a key fails in any way, I can just put replace the switch.

I currently have a board with MX Reds and its awesome for me. I almost kept the board with blues because they just feel right for typing on, but I don't do that much regular typing. When I look at the time I spend using a keyboard, spending a little extra on something that is nicer to me is still dirt cheap. Its a tool, and I always get the right, quality tool for the job. If the job is typing, I'm going to get a nice keyboard. I've cheaped out enough to know you get what you pay for. If you saw my tool shed you'd understand. You'll see all the cheap tools worn out and busted and all the quality tools that have been used far more than the cheap tools, and work better than even when the cheap tools were new.

Post came out longer than I expected, hopefully it can help some people understand the decisions behind buying more expensive gear.

Edit:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PowerSlide*
> 
> can't decide between kbt pure pro or leopold fc 660m, yes both is non standard replacing keycaps is hard but thats not the issue
> 
> decision is hard when can only afford one


Leopold is probably better quality based on reviews. I wish I had the resources to do a 60% review. I'd really like to get my hands on a Choco Mini, one of the Vortex boards and a few others. I almost got a Choco mini, but I need a full size 104 key keyboard. 2 of the 4 boards I had for review a few weeks ago were TKL, and.... let me just say you don't realize how much you use your ten keypad until its not there.

Edit2:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jodiuh*
> 
> OMG! I'm freaking out! I currently have a backlit Logitech Illuminated Keyboard, but tried out a friend's "cherry MX blacks...I think?" and LOVED the feel!
> 
> But damn them Ducky Shine 3's are like $250!!!
> 
> Red or brown? Brown or red?!
> 
> Based on this chart: http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/mechanical_switches.php
> 
> I went w/ this keyboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823129005&RandomID=599121742615519220131105073806


Can't go wrong with the CM QFs. If I hadn't received a WASD as a gift I would have kept one of the Quickfires I had for review. Build quality is pretty damn good, not to mention they are <$100. Side by side with a WASD, quality feels and looks pretty much the same, just the WASD has customized key caps, better rubber feet and a DIP switch.


----------



## karkee

I am in the market for a compact without numpad mechanical keyboard either red or brown switches.

Max 300dollar or something, should I get a filco or a ducky or something else?

And btw all the brown switch have that little tactile click feel no? the reds dont have that right?


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karkee*
> 
> I am in the market for a compact without numpad mechanical keyboard either red or brown switches.
> 
> Max 300dollar or something, should I get a filco or a ducky or something else?
> 
> And btw all the brown switch have that little tactile click feel no? the reds dont have that right?


Yes, MX Browns have the distinctive tactile bump.

For such a high budget you could get pretty much any production board out there, you could look at a Ducky Shine 3, Filco Majestouch-2, WASD V2, even some of the Topre boards like a HHKB.


----------



## Trev0r269

I went ahead and ordered a Ducky Shine 3 TKL with MX browns. They look too good and browns might be a good medium for my preferences. The backlit attribute might help as I do the majority of my bulk typing at night (free up some room on my desk and remove my desk light.) Thanks to Paradigm84 for suggesting this keyboard (among others).

I'll report back with my opinion of the board. Now, a couple questions about a couple topics.

1. I ordered from Tiger Imports last night. I understand that they are closed on weekends. Is it normal to get a confirmation e-mail only during working hours? I sent them an e-mail to see if that what was the case, or if the e-mails are auto-generated. Anyone else have good or bad experiences with T.I.?

2. Long story short, I broke some of the smaller pieces of the switch on my CTRL key on my Keycool 87 (non-backlit, mx reds). I'm fairly sure someone could fix it. I'd rather just sell the whole thing to recoup some money. Should I keep the board for parts like keys? What kind of money could I realistically get for it? What would you do if you were me?

Thanks for any input and I apologize in advance if these questions and comments are in the wrong thread. The keyboard people here @ OCN have been one of the more helpful and nice sub-communities I've run across, keep it up, and thank you again.


----------



## Ovrclck

Does anyone have any recommendations on a MX Blue that is red led backlit?
So far I'm eyeing the CM Storm QuickFire XT - Full Size


----------



## Arizonian

Hi guys, quick post.

We've got an nominations thread going on in the › Overclock.net Related News and Information sections. Please feel free to go and vote your favorites.

*[Nominations] The Most Helpful People on OC.net*


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BGKris*
> 
> Does anyone have any recommendations on a MX Blue that is red led backlit?
> So far I'm eyeing the CM Storm QuickFire XT - Full Size


The Quick Fire XT has no backlighting, you could however consider a CM Storm Trigger, Ducky Shine 3, MaxKeyboard Nighthawk X7.

EDIT: If you don't _definitely_ need backlighting, the XT is still a great choice though.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> The Quick Fire XT has no backlighting, you could however consider a CM Storm Trigger, Ducky Shine 3, MaxKeyboard Nighthawk X7.
> 
> EDIT: If you don't _definitely_ need backlighting, the XT is still a great choice though.


No trigger! Isn't that the bad one?

The Shine III is great! WASD is an equally good choice.

There is also Keycool or Rosewill if you want cheaper. I am liking my Keycool, great low cost board. The Rosewill broke, but I am told they fixed the problem.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> The Quick Fire XT has no backlighting, you could however consider a CM Storm Trigger, Ducky Shine 3, MaxKeyboard Nighthawk X7.
> 
> EDIT: If you don't _definitely_ need backlighting, the XT is still a great choice though.
> 
> 
> 
> No trigger! Isn't that the bad one?
> 
> The Shine III is great! WASD is an equally good choice.
> 
> There is also Keycool or Rosewill if you want cheaper. I am liking my Keycool, great low cost board. The Rosewill broke, but I am told they fixed the problem.
Click to expand...

As far as I'm aware it's not a bad board, maybe not as popular and regarded as the XT or Rapid, but still a lot better than some comparable boards at that price point.

And yes, the WASD V2 would also be a good choice, however the only version with backlighting is the V2 CODE which has white backlighting and MX Clears, so maybe not what BGKris would want.


----------



## zflamewing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BGKris*
> 
> Does anyone have any recommendations on a MX Blue that is red led backlit?
> So far I'm eyeing the CM Storm QuickFire XT - Full Size


CM Storm Trigger, Ducky Shine 3, or the MaxKeyobard Paradigm recommended. I've own a Shine2 and really enjoy it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> No trigger! Isn't that the bad one?
> 
> The Shine III is great! WASD is an equally good choice.
> 
> There is also Keycool or Rosewill if you want cheaper. I am liking my Keycool, great low cost board. The Rosewill broke, but I am told they fixed the problem.


I've thought the Trigger was well liked and it was the CM Storm Pro that people didn't view favorably.

I'll 2nd Paradigm's recommendation of the XT being a fine board if back lighting isn't a priority, I simply love mine.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zflamewing*
> 
> CM Storm Trigger, Ducky Shine 3, or the MaxKeyobard Paradigm recommended. I've own a Shine2 and really enjoy it.
> I've thought the Trigger was well liked and it was the CM Storm Pro that people didn't view favorably.
> 
> I'll 2nd Paradigm's recommendation of the XT being a fine board if back lighting isn't a priority, I simply love mine.


Hmmm. My memory failed me. Ignore that part them. If its as good as the QF it will be a fine board.
The only problem with buying a Mech board now: There are too many choices


----------



## zflamewing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Hmmm. My memory failed me. Ignore that part them. If its as good as the QF it will be a fine board.
> The only problem with buying a Mech board now: There are too many choices


Agreed...I didn't realize I wouldn't like a TKL till I owned one for a year. I've also learned I really like MX Greens and glad I made the jump when I went from the QFR to XT. I might pull apart my Shine2 and swap the springs out to make ghetto greens so I don't have to buy a 4th board in less than a year.


----------



## Ovrclck

Looks like I'm going with a Ducky Shine2. I found one used but it's blue back lit. I can't find for the life of me find the red back lit version.


----------



## zflamewing

If you're ok with TKL Mechanical Keyboards has one in Red LED with blue switches

http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/search.php?keyword=&switch_id=3&size=ALL&man=ALL&key_plastic=ALL&backlit=Red&interface=ALL&cord_length=ALL&usb_kro=ALL&ps2_kro=ALL&x=43&y=21&in_stock=on


----------



## Ovrclck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zflamewing*
> 
> If you're ok with TKL Mechanical Keyboards has one in Red LED with blue switches
> 
> http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/search.php?keyword=&switch_id=3&size=ALL&man=ALL&key_plastic=ALL&backlit=Red&interface=ALL&cord_length=ALL&usb_kro=ALL&ps2_kro=ALL&x=43&y=21&in_stock=on


Hmm!! That might be something I'd consider, I rarely use ten key anyways. Thanks!


----------



## hardiboy

wich one should i take ducky shiny or filco majestouch

And what about ducky zero?

And please guide me about the switch
I am still confuse about it

I use it mostly for gaming
What switch should i choose

And if for typing and gaming i read that brown is the best


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hardiboy*
> 
> wich one should i take ducky shiny or filco majestouch
> 
> And what about ducky zero?
> 
> And please guide me about the switch
> I am still confuse about it
> 
> I use it mostly for gaming
> What switch should i choose
> 
> And if for typing and gaming i read that brown is the best


If you want backlighting get the Ducky Shine 3, if you don't get the Filco.

The Ducky Zero is the lower end non-backlit Ducky board.


MX Reds are very light and linear, so you'll end up bottoming out whilst typing, some people find them too light because it's easy to mistype with them.
MX Blacks are heavy and linear, you'll bottom out whilst typing, some people find them too heavy for long periods of typing.
MX Browns are fairly light with a tactile bump, this is one of the most popular switches, they're a good middle ground for both typing and gaming, but some people don't like how light the tactile bump is, if you're bottoming out the switch the tactile bump feels practically non-existent.
MX Blues are fairly light with a tactile click, they are usually marketed as a typist's switch because of the signature click they make around the actuation point. Some people don't like them because if you're typing a lot they can be pretty loud.
Which switch you should choose is up to you, MX Browns are usually recommended as a first switch because they're tactile but not as loud as MX Blues, but you might prefer having the tactile click or having a linear switch.


----------



## frag85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hardiboy*
> 
> wich one should i take ducky shiny or filco majestouch
> 
> And what about ducky zero?
> 
> And please guide me about the switch
> I am still confuse about it
> 
> I use it mostly for gaming
> What switch should i choose
> 
> And if for typing and gaming i read that brown is the best


If you're considering the FIlco, you might also want to take a look at WASD. Same price range and quality (and both from Costar) and the WASD you can get custom keycaps.


----------



## Frosch

Hi, I have a zowie celeritas, and I'm trying to change the keycaps, is there anyone here that sell fullset keycaps with L shaped enter?


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosch*
> 
> Hi, I have a zowie celeritas, and I'm trying to change the keycaps, is there anyone here that sell fullset keycaps with L shaped enter?


ISO keycap sets are harder to find than ANSI, but not impossible, I'd suggest looking up the sets Ducky offers, not sure where you're based so I can't give any links, but if you let me know I can see if I can find any.


----------



## Frosch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> ISO keycap sets are harder to find than ANSI, but not impossible, I'd suggest looking up the sets Ducky offers, not sure where you're based so I can't give any links, but if you let me know I can see if I can find any.


\
I'm from Indonesia, so any area around the east and southeast asia is fine, and maybe australia will be fine too


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frosch*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> ISO keycap sets are harder to find than ANSI, but not impossible, I'd suggest looking up the sets Ducky offers, not sure where you're based so I can't give any links, but if you let me know I can see if I can find any.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm from Indonesia, so any area around the east and southeast asia is fine, and maybe australia will be fine too
Click to expand...

Unfortunately it seems any local stores I can find only have ANSI keycap sets, so the only thing I can really suggest is getting some on the US eBay store some of the sets have competitive international pricing, sorry I couldn't have been more help.


----------



## KipH

banggood ships to Indonesia free, but I don't see ISO caps there. Take a look at what they do have and see if any work for you.
I will keep looking for ISO.

NOT ISO keycaps


----------



## chrisguitar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> If you want backlighting get the Ducky Shine 3, if you don't get the Filco.
> 
> The Ducky Zero is the lower end non-backlit Ducky board.
> 
> 
> MX Reds are very light and linear, so you'll end up bottoming out whilst typing, some people find them too light because it's easy to mistype with them.
> MX Blacks are heavy and linear, you'll bottom out whilst typing, some people find them too heavy for long periods of typing.
> MX Browns are fairly light with a tactile bump, this is one of the most popular switches, they're a good middle ground for both typing and gaming, but some people don't like how light the tactile bump is, if you're bottoming out the switch the tactile bump feels practically non-existent.
> MX Blues are fairly light with a tactile click, they are usually marketed as a typist's switch because of the signature click they make around the actuation point. Some people don't like them because if you're typing a lot they can be pretty loud.
> Which switch you should choose is up to you, MX Browns are usually recommended as a first switch because they're tactile but not as loud as MX Blues, but you might prefer having the tactile click or having a linear switch.


So i've been reading this thread and watching a lot of guides and still can't pick which one to get :/

I'm not 100% sure what to get and I've only been able to try one Razer mechanical switch and I'm 99% sure it was a blue, which I kind of liked. Not sure how well it would do at home as I code / game during the night a lot and it may be a bit to loud.

So with that information of me, I use the Razer Arctosa, Membrane keyboard and I have to say I don't mind the fact I need to bottom out keys in order for them to be registered.
I do type a lot and it's not fatiguing to me.

So Reds are the same as Blacks but less actuation force, so a lighter switch?
What would the benefit of going with the Reds over Blacks?

I've read that the actuation of membrane keys are around 65g, so would it benefit me to go with a lighter switch, IE Reds?
Sometimes when I'm typing as for example right now, I sometimes miss the center of the key and it wont actuate unless I put a lot of force.

So does that mean something with lighter would be better in my circumstance or do I need a lesson in typing?








Or does that statement mean the opposite, that I should go with a Brown or Blue that has a tactile feel to it?

I have been looking at this;

*Corsair K95*
Pro's:
MX Reds
Media keys
Macros (although it's not a must if you a recommending another keyboard as I can only reach one column anyway)
Lighting
Aluminum built

FYI another massive pro for me is that it's Aluminum construction (I think the Ducky Year of the Dragon is as well), my current keyboard is so bad, it flexes like crazy if I press even the slightest bit too hard and overall feels like crap to say the least.

If you could recommend me a well built, back-light keyboard with media keys (preferably separate keys / buttons but if functions, still works I guess) that goes off what I've said above I would be very appreciative.

Sorry for this long list, I don't have many stores out here in Australia that I can go into and try different switches


----------



## KipH

Wow. You are a hard one.
Typing you like the tactile bump and a bit heavier. So blue > green > clear.
Gaming you want heavier (so you can hammer) and no bump, or a bump right when it actuates. So Black.
Red is lighter, so it is good for feathering the key. Double tapping. or for touch typing with proper form.
Brown is the usual middle ground if you like heavy, while rad for light typing.

All mechanical will feel well built to you after using razors, except the razor naturally :0 don't get them.

I suggest getting a nice OCN Ducky







But if that is not what you want you know the list of recommended boards.
I am typing on a blue back lit KeyCool right now that I got from Banggood. Its a nice cheaper board that would be good to test. If you don't like it, sell it local.

If you are rich, the Topre Type heaven is a good step up from rubber with a bit of the same feel. I have not used them yet but typers love them. Both these places have it, and many other boards:
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,1&pid=za0100
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=522

And, head over to the recommendation and club thread. There are more folks there and more talk.

Or, get on of the switch testers. I think the one from WASD give you a discount on the board you buy from them. So it does not cost so much









Good luck and welcome. You are now One Of Us!


----------



## Aesthethc

Hi guys, ive never owned a mechanical keyboard before and i stepped into a Best Buy and started to test out some keyboards.... i noticed there was a point where after the "click" there was a gap between the click and the "activation" (is this the right word?) and i could kind of press it a bunch of times without fully letting go of the key. Does a Cherry MX Blue keyboard register a key every single time i do that? Or does a Cherry MX Blue have to fully release before it can register another key? Is that why they say Cherry MX Blue is hard for for double tapping?


----------



## chrisguitar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Wow. You are a hard one.
> Typing you like the tactile bump and a bit heavier. So blue > green > clear.
> Gaming you want heavier (so you can hammer) and no bump, or a bump right when it actuates. So Black.
> Red is lighter, so it is good for feathering the key. Double tapping. or for touch typing with proper form.
> Brown is the usual middle ground if you like heavy, while rad for light typing.


So I'm reading all of that and concluding that a Red would be the best for me?
I bottom the keys out anyway whilst using my membrane, so it wont make a difference?
With the Razer keyboard I tried it was a hit or a miss, I didn't love it or hate it either.

I will try my best tomorrow to see what I can do to test them if possible.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aesthethc*
> 
> Hi guys, ive never owned a mechanical keyboard before and i stepped into a Best Buy and started to test out some keyboards.... i noticed there was a point where after the "click" there was a gap between the click and the "activation" (is this the right word?) and i could kind of press it a bunch of times without fully letting go of the key. Does a Cherry MX Blue keyboard register a key every single time i do that? Or does a Cherry MX Blue have to fully release before it can register another key? Is that why they say Cherry MX Blue is hard for for double tapping?


Yes, that is why blue is not good for double tap. You can feather like that with black, brown, red and some others. You get to know how high up the actuation is and just ride it. Blue is not a bad gamer, if you are like %99.5 of us, only that top .5% would even notice. (all stats are made up and +/- %10 9 times out of 10)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisguitar*
> 
> So I'm reading all of that and concluding that a Red would be the best for me?
> I bottom the keys out anyway whilst using my membrane, so it wont make a difference?
> With the Razer keyboard I tried it was a hit or a miss, I didn't love it or hate it either.
> 
> I will try my best tomorrow to see what I can do to test them if possible.


Well. I would say brown would make a better first board. But red if you are willing to type a bit lighter. Really, any board you get will be so much better, that you will get use to it fast. They really are different. I started brown, went red and now am blue. I am looking for a clear next. Yes, I have over 10 sitting behind me.


----------



## chrisguitar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Yes, that is why blue is not good for double tap. You can feather like that with black, brown, red and some others. You get to know how high up the actuation is and just ride it. Blue is not a bad gamer, if you are like %99.5 of us, only that top .5% would even notice. (all stats are made up and +/- %10 9 times out of 10)
> Well. I would say brown would make a better first board. But red if you are willing to type a bit lighter. Really, any board you get will be so much better, that you will get use to it fast. They really are different. I started brown, went red and now am blue. I am looking for a clear next. Yes, I have over 10 sitting behind me.


You should send me either the Blue or Red







hehe

Why would a brown be better suited to me as a first? I am new and was only going based of what you said but if you have more info I'd love it


----------



## KipH

Mostly I say brown as you mix typing and gaming and you mash the keys. Reds are better for a light touch.


----------



## chrisguitar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Mostly I say brown as you mix typing and gaming and you mash the keys. Reds are better for a light touch.


Okay thanks, is there anyway I could get get a Corsair K95 and do some type of O ring mod?

I love the feature set and everything about the K95, except the switches (having not tried them yet though)

Who knows, tomorrow I may be able to try Reds and I'll see how I go.

There is a Logitech :S G710+ which has browns.


----------



## KipH

Well, its red switch. Red is good









Buy o-rings and you are good.

Nice looking board.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisguitar*
> 
> What would the benefit of going with the Reds over Blacks?
> 
> I've read that the actuation of membrane keys are around 65g, so would it benefit me to go with a lighter switch, IE Reds?
> Sometimes when I'm typing as for example right now, I sometimes miss the center of the key and it wont actuate unless I put a lot of force.
> 
> So does that mean something with lighter would be better in my circumstance or do I need a lesson in typing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or does that statement mean the opposite, that I should go with a Brown or Blue that has a tactile feel to it?


The benefit of MX Reds over MX Blacks is you might be able to game longer without getting aching fingers because of the reduced actuation force.

As for not actuating the key, it could just be the fault of the keyboard instead of the way you type or how heavy you type.

The K95 is a solid choice, a downside of it however is the bottom row of keys have a less popular layout, so finding aftermarket keycaps will be significantly more difficult than finding them for a keyboard with a more "standard" bottom row. (see the Recommended Keyboard Thread for more info on what I mean)

If you'd like a board with an aluminium faceplate, and are willing to fork out extra for it, PCCaseGear still have an MX Red Ducky Year of the Snake in stock.

If you'd rather not spend that much and can do without the aluminium faceplate, the Ducky Shine 3 is also a great choice and PCCaseGear has lots of stock.

Also MX Browns are usually recommended as a starter switch because they strike a nice balance between being tactile to aid typing (although the tactile bump is pretty small) and being light and quiet enough to use in games or in an environment where a noisy keyboard isn't wanted.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aesthethc*
> 
> Hi guys, ive never owned a mechanical keyboard before and i stepped into a Best Buy and started to test out some keyboards.... i noticed there was a point where after the "click" there was a gap between the click and the "activation" (is this the right word?) and i could kind of press it a bunch of times without fully letting go of the key. Does a Cherry MX Blue keyboard register a key every single time i do that? Or does a Cherry MX Blue have to fully release before it can register another key? Is that why they say Cherry MX Blue is hard for for double tapping?


If you look at the force diagram of an MX Blue switch below, you can see the ~0.5mm gap between the pressure point (the click) and the operating point, where the switch is actually triggered.


----------



## Aesthethc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Yes, that is why blue is not good for double tap. You can feather like that with black, brown, red and some others. You get to know how high up the actuation is and just ride it. Blue is not a bad gamer, if you are like %99.5 of us, only that top .5% would even notice. (all stats are made up and +/- %10 9 times out of 10)
> Well. I would say brown would make a better first board. But red if you are willing to type a bit lighter. Really, any board you get will be so much better, that you will get use to it fast. They really are different. I started brown, went red and now am blue. I am looking for a clear next. Yes, I have over 10 sitting behind me.


Ahhh okay that makes sense. Well is brown the only next best thing next to blues when having that clicky feel as well? While still being able to double tap? I did notice that in the blues and i know with my style of how i press down keys, ill have a problem with that. i wanted to either get brown or reds but i think reds might be too light. do browns have a clicking or responsive feeling when you press them? like when you bottom out on blues ?


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aesthethc*
> 
> Ahhh okay that makes sense. Well is brown the only next best thing next to blues when having that clicky feel as well? While still being able to double tap? I did notice that in the blues and i know with my style of how i press down keys, ill have a problem with that. i wanted to either get brown or reds but i think reds might be too light. do browns have a clicking or responsive feeling when you press them? like when you bottom out on blues ?


See my answer above ^ It just looks like Paradigm84 said it. LP


----------



## chrisguitar

Hey guys,

got to try out a Cherry Red, Blue and Brown today here are my thoughts.

While I loved the Blue's for their tactile feel, their sound could justify the better feeling they gave over a Brown.

The Brown isn't nicer to me in terms of the switch but more so the quietness.

The Red's, oh my god, they glide to the bottom like cutting warm butter with a hot knife. It's so smooth and easy to press.

I have ordered the Corsair K95 and will be here before Christmas!

thanks guys for the help, I'll be sure to post pics


----------



## Paradigm84

Hope you like it.


----------



## Xanatos

where is the best place to i get a filco mx brown tenkeyless? they're no longer at a decent price on amazon.

are the leopold keyboards comparable to filco's?

i have considered the wasd keyboards, but i'm not fond of the design of the sides with that 'crease' or whatever it's called.


----------



## Frosch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xanatos*
> 
> where is the best place to i get a filco mx brown tenkeyless? they're no longer at a decent price on amazon.
> 
> are the leopold keyboards comparable to filco's?
> 
> i have considered the wasd keyboards, but i'm not fond of the design of the sides with that 'crease' or whatever it's called.


i recall the leopold have slightly inferior build, but it's comparable, there's a leopold fc700r with white/graphite housing in geekhack, but it ships from indonesia


----------



## zflamewing

I think the main differences between Leopold and Filco are:
1) Leopold uses Cherry stabilizers and Filco users Costar.
2) Leopold users a non standard sized space bar, that would be a factor if you're looking to eventually get after market key caps.
3) Filco uses an attached cable and Leopold uses a detachable cable.

From what I understand they're over similar build quality beyond that.

-Edit I corrected the attached vs removable cable section.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zflamewing*
> 
> I think the main differences between Leopold and Filco are:
> 1) Leopold uses Cherry stabilizers and Filco users Costar.
> 2) Leopold users a non standard sized space bar, that would be a factor if you're looking to eventually get after market key caps.
> 3) Leopold uses an attached cable and Filco uses a detachable cable.
> 
> From what I understand they're over similar build quality beyond that.


AFAIK all of Leopold's boards have removable cables, the Filco MJ2's do not.


----------



## zflamewing

Meh I hadn't had my coffee yet...good catch and error corrected


----------



## Angrychair

my works uses Cherry brand POS keyboards with card readers and touch pads, too bad when we replace them we send them back


----------



## KipH

Many of them are NOT mechanical. You can check.
It would be too bad if they were and got returned.
Returned with no switches perhaps ;P


----------



## chrisguitar

Hey guys, back again and I'm just replying because I've had some time to think it over and the more I think the worse it gets.

I'm concerned that the Reds may be too light for me to type on, gaming comes second to typing. As I code daily it needs to be a good experience.

I was looking at the Corsair K95, it fit everything I wanted but used Reds. I went into a shop and tried them and didn't mind them although my concern was how light the felt there may be different when typing countless lines of code.

I've been able to try a Razer Blackwidow (shudders) with Blue switches and I don't mind the switches.

My question is, should I go for the Corsair K95 (has Reds) or the Corsair K70 (can be Blues or Browns)? I like the idea of Macros which the K95 has but not sure if I'll ever use them, nor am I sure if the Reds are good for typing.
My question changes to, Reds, Blues or Browns for typing?

Thanks,

EDIT: well after reading most of the Corsair forums, it seems there is a major issue with the LEDs dying on their keyboards. It makes me sick in the stomach that something so good produced by a good company, doesn't work.

EDIT 2: Seems as if though Reds aren;t good for typing so its between Blues and Browns, what is the main differences?


----------



## Tator Tot

Corsair's issues with LEDs dying should be resolved but it is a mechanical keyboard and it is never an issue you will fully remove as you have 104 LEDs per board (without macro keys or extra accent lighting) versus 20 LEDs on most rubber-dome based gaming keyboards.

That's a standard of 104 points of failure. 208 if you count actual solder points. It's an impossible factor to control to the perfect degree. If every keyboard was 1 switch with 1 LED it wouldn't be such a daunting task but the more you add the more complex the QC gets and you can only do so much QC before the boards get packaged, shipped across the sea, and then shipped to facilities or houses.

As for your second question; Blues have more tactile feel (so your finger knows distinctly when the switch is triggered) as they have a very light tactile click (sounds like most ball point pens clicking.)

Browns have a lighter tactile point which is just an increased moment of resistance in the switch. Over time you'll be able to feel this point when you're typing and you won't bottom out on your keypresses. It makes no extra noise (like a click) but it is still louder than your average rubber dome keyboard.

Both keys require similar amounts of force.


----------



## chrisguitar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Corsair's issues with LEDs dying should be resolved but it is a mechanical keyboard and it is never an issue you will fully remove as you have 104 LEDs per board (without macro keys or extra accent lighting) versus 20 LEDs on most rubber-dome based gaming keyboards.
> 
> That's a standard of 104 points of failure. 208 if you count actual solder points. It's an impossible factor to control to the perfect degree. If every keyboard was 1 switch with 1 LED it wouldn't be such a daunting task but the more you add the more complex the QC gets and you can only do so much QC before the boards get packaged, shipped across the sea, and then shipped to facilities or houses.
> 
> As for your second question; Blues have more tactile feel (so your finger knows distinctly when the switch is triggered) as they have a very light tactile click (sounds like most ball point pens clicking.)
> Browns have a lighter tactile point which is just an increased moment of resistance in the switch. Over time you'll be able to feel this point when you're typing and you won't bottom out on your keypresses. It makes no extra noise (like a click) but it is still louder than your average rubber dome keyboard.
> 
> Both keys require similar amounts of force.


Thank you for that detailed response, so for typing the Blue is better due to the actuation point (when the key is registered?) aka click sound?

Should I just take into consideration that the keyboard may have dead LED's and get it? There aren't really any other boards that I like that come close to it in terms of design and functionality. I could always turn off the LED's








I'm talking about the K70 by the way.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisguitar*
> 
> Thank you for that detailed response, so for typing the Blue is better due to the actuation point (when the key is registered?) aka click sound?
> 
> Should I just take into consideration that the keyboard may have dead LED's and get it? There aren't really any other boards that I like that come close to it in terms of design and functionality. I could always turn off the LED's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm talking about the K70 by the way.


The MX Blue switch essentially lets you identify when the switch has been actuated better than some other MX switches and rubber domes.

The issue with reports of dead LED's is that more people are likely to go online to complain about issues with it than to sing it's praises, so the failure rate of LED's on the boards will likely be exaggerated and really be lower than researching may indicate.


----------



## chrisguitar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> The MX Blue switch essentially lets you identify when the switch has been actuated better than some other MX switches and rubber domes.
> 
> The issue with reports of dead LED's is that more people are likely to go online to complain about issues with it than to sing it's praises, so the failure rate of LED's on the boards will likely be exaggerated and really be lower than researching may indicate.


I took that into consideration but it is between 20-25 people complaining about it on the Corsair forums and about 10 here on OCN, all of which own the Blue LED variant.

I think I will just buy it and if it screws up I'll deal with it till the last month I can RMA and resend it. I'm not bothered that the LED's wont work, heck I don't have them on my current so it wont be a loss if I have them off, but it would be nice. Anyway, I'll be buying the Corsair K70 Cherry MX Blue and I'll post a thread with updates on this.

Thanks!


----------



## KipH

Does anyone have a good resource or explanation why Cherry dominates and other switches, specifically Alps, are not so popular?


----------



## Tator Tot

I'll say, 90% of the time I don't have the LEDs on on my keyboard.

They're not a useful to functionality.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Does anyone have a good resource or explanation why Cherry dominates and other switches, specifically Alps, are not so popular?


Market integration, for your product to be successful it needs to have the marketing, budget and availability so that if a big company such as Diatec, Ducky or Cooler Master wants to bring out a new mechanical keyboard, you're the first company they think of. I'd imagine Cherry succeeded there where Alps have failed.


----------



## Tator Tot

The Alps brand also died and was resurrected a few times.

A big issue with bringing Alps to market is you have about 4 different companies who make Alps style switches and it's inconsistent as to what "color" means what with Alps.

On the other hand, Cherry Switches are made at multiple factories but by one company and are consistent across the board.


----------



## Angrychair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Many of them are NOT mechanical. You can check.
> It would be too bad if they were and got returned.
> Returned with no switches perhaps ;P


the older beige ones are mechanical, I checked today, with MX whites, at least for the letters keys, I popped off the V.


----------



## KipH

White? Cool if they are. White is rare. I highly suggest buying a $5 keyboard (or 10 even) and see if they will swap you. Or,







But don't let them be recycled for scrap.

Can we get pictures?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Angrychair*
> 
> the older beige ones are mechanical, I checked today, with MX whites, at least for the letters keys, I popped off the V.


Are you sure they are really mechanical? The rubber domes still have a plastic + just like the cherry switches so they don't have to make different keys... and they are white.


----------



## Xanatos

is there a linear switch that has a force in between the mx black and red?


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xanatos*
> 
> is there a linear switch that has a force in between the mx black and red?


No, the difference between the two switch actuation forces is pretty small (15cN), so there isn't really any reason to make a switch between them.


----------



## frag85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xanatos*
> 
> is there a linear switch that has a force in between the mx black and red?


http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX#Table_of_all_known_variants

You could probably make some hybrid switches with the springs from Clear or Blues, 55cN and 50cN.


----------



## kskwerl

Can anyone tell me where I can buy a braided cable for my leopold keyboard?


----------



## Paradigm84

Sorry for the lack of reply, techkeys.us has a few here, alternatively there's a great selection here.


----------



## Xanatos

Does pinging from MX Brown switches eventually go away?


----------



## M0reP0wer

Had a question about cherry mx blues vs reds. I got a keyboard with cherry mx reds and I would accidentally depress certain keys while gaming. Does this happen as often on blues? Also can you recommend a different cherry mx switch for gaming that is easy to depress but doesn't usually allow for accidental key actuation?


----------



## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M0reP0wer*
> 
> Had a question about cherry mx blues vs reds. I got a keyboard with cherry mx reds and I would accidentally depress certain keys while gaming. Does this happen as often on blues? Also can you recommend a different cherry mx switch for gaming that is easy to depress but doesn't usually allow for accidental key actuation?


Mx blacks would be very similar, but be a little harder to press so might let you rest your fingers like you're used to.


----------



## frag85

Maybe check out browns as well. I like blues for typing, but for gaming I like reds for their light linear actuation. Browns with their tactile feel are between a linear red and clicky blue with a light actuation force.


----------



## nvidiamd

Hey guys,

Just wondering if you could possibly list out a mechanical keyboard with these criteria:

87 Keys
Cherry MX red switch
Backlit

Many thanks!!


----------



## Paradigm84

The Ducky Shine 3 would be a good choice, but finding a TKL MX Red version is proving difficult.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiamd*
> 
> Hey guys,
> Just wondering if you could possibly list out a mechanical keyboard with these criteria:
> 87 Keys
> Cherry MX red switch
> Backlit
> Many thanks!!


Try this one and let us know if it is ok








http://www.banggood.com/Flashget-G600-Wired-Mechanical-Keyboard-Cherry-MX-Red-Switch-p-79412.html

I thought they had a KeyKool had one, but I can only find non-lit








http://www.banggood.com/KEYCOOL-87-Mechanical-Keyboard-Cherry-MX-Red-Switch-p-80571.html

KeyKool is a good less expensive brand.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *nvidiamd*
> 
> Hey guys,
> Just wondering if you could possibly list out a mechanical keyboard with these criteria:
> 87 Keys
> Cherry MX red switch
> Backlit
> Many thanks!!
> 
> 
> 
> Try this one and let us know if it is ok
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.banggood.com/Flashget-G600-Wired-Mechanical-Keyboard-Cherry-MX-Red-Switch-p-79412.html
> 
> I thought they had a KeyKool had one, but I can only find non-lit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.banggood.com/KEYCOOL-87-Mechanical-Keyboard-Cherry-MX-Red-Switch-p-80571.html
> 
> KeyKool is a good less expensive brand.
Click to expand...

Keycool do offer backlit models as you can find here, however they're all out of stock there, hopefully they'll get more stock soon.

Other than there, you could get one off eBay, I'm not sure what colour backlighting you want, but here's just one model you could try.


----------



## nvidiamd

Thank you guys for the suggestions, it's much appreciated









I managed to find one on NCIX:

http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=90667


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiamd*
> 
> Thank you guys for the suggestions, it's much appreciated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to find one on NCIX:
> 
> http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=90667


Ohhhh. Ducky YOS is good. Nice choice.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiamd*
> 
> Thank you guys for the suggestions, it's much appreciated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to find one on NCIX:
> 
> http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=90667
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


No idea how I missed that when I looked on NCIX.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Ohhhh. Ducky YOS is good. Nice choice.


That's not a Year of the Snake, it doesn't have the aluminium faceplate. The newer Ducky Shine 3's just come with a snake spacebar (more recent Shine 3's come with another spacebar aswell as seen below):


----------



## KipH

I did not know that! Thanks, you saved me money. I might have bought it thinking it was a Yea Of. 2014 is horse. Wonder what they will do for that?


----------



## Paradigm84

Probably something like this:



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Pandora51

What do you guys think about the CM Storm quickfire ultimate with mx blues?

Its on sale and I want to try out mx blue. My only concern is propably that the keyboard seems a bit thick / has a higher height than my current Corsair K60 and might be uncomfortable or does it just looks like this?
Otherwise I read only good about it. Would you agree?

thanks in advance


----------



## Paradigm84

It's an ok choice, however it's worth noting the board is made by iOne so the build quality isn't likely to be as good as some of Cooler Master's other boards like the XT or Rapid/ Stealth. It's also worth noting it has a "non-standard" bottom row (check the Recommended Keyboard thread in my sig for an explanation), which means getting aftermarket keycaps for it is going to be pretty awkward.

How much were you looking to spend?


----------



## Pandora51

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> It's an ok choice, however it's worth noting the board is made by iOne so the build quality isn't likely to be as good as some of Cooler Master's other boards like the XT or Rapid/ Stealth. It's also worth noting it has a "non-standard" bottom row (check the Recommended Keyboard thread in my sig for an explanation), which means getting aftermarket keycaps for it is going to be pretty awkward.
> 
> How much were you looking to spend?






wow thanks that is already some helpful information. I dont see really any reviews about the "ultimate" version, only the normal version which was always positive.
The non - standard bottom row keys are similar to the pro version then?

Well its not easy to say how much I would like to spend. My country is germany and the CM storm keyboard costs 70 euro as a special offer which is actually pretty good.
Another keyboard I have in mind is the Corsair K70 but the price is holding me back since I own already 2 mechanical keyboards with mx red. The Gigabyte aivia osmium and the corsair K60 but Im not so sure if I want to keep both.
I was able to test a keyboard with mx blue for like 2 days last year and it felt really good. I like the clicky clacky and maybe its the "right" mx type for me.


----------



## Paradigm84

The QuickFire Pro and Ultimate are the same in every way other than the fact the Ultimate has full backlighting, the Ultimate is pretty much the refresh of the same concept because the QuickFire Pro was their best selling board IIRC.

The K70 is ok, but has had some problems with boards arriving warped and LED's dying.

You could look at the Ducky Zero Shine, however I'm not sure if you'd be willing to spend that much.

MX Blues are the most popular switch according to data collected from the Mechanical Keyboard Club.


----------



## Pandora51

Hm no, Ducky is no option. I would like to have a keyboard with a german layout. The CM ultimate keyboard is one of the cheapest options here in the moment. Even the K70 is 50 bucks more expensive but Im still a bit unsure about the ultimate if the quality is worse and the layout different. What is with the height?

I thought mx red are the most common switch but blue makes sense aswell.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> Hm no, Ducky is no option. I would like to have a keyboard with a german layout. The CM ultimate keyboard is one of the cheapest options here in the moment. Even the K70 is 50 bucks more expensive but Im still a bit unsure about the ultimate if the quality is worse and the layout different. What is with the height?
> 
> I thought mx red are the most common switch but blue makes sense aswell.


The CM boards by iOne are fine. I actually like em. CM on a whole seems to do good customer care as well. For the price, they are great.

If you want, you can also look for Funk. Very nice KB with red switch and a very clean look. And it has some Euro layouts.

As for switch:
Blue is great for typing, good for most games as well, as long as you are not a pro double tapper.
I like red better than black myself, of the "gaming" switches. Black is more mushy feeling, similar to a good rubber. Red has more of the mechanical feel for me. Blue is most popular on OCN, not better.


----------



## Pandora51

I will think about the CM keyboard. The price is the biggest plus.Thanks for the thoughts!

The double tap is a valid point. I never really thought about but it shouldnt be that a big problem.
mx red are pretty great but mx blue feel just a little bit better in my opinion. It feels lets say.. satisfying. Mx brown aswell but there is just not enough tactile feeling. And for mx black.. I really dont like them so far. I tested this switch like 5 minutes and it feels so heavy and I assume it wouldnt be nice to write alot with it.


----------



## moho9

I'm excited...about to purchase my first mechanical keyboard 

I was going to post in the suggestions thread, but input seems to be more on the terse side there, so, I thought this might be a better place. I'd appreciate some suggestions/input to make sure I'm not missing anything. This all started when I tried the Coolermaster Quickfire Stealth at Fry's. I LOVED how the keys felt and I also loved the size of the board -- I've never had a smaller board, as I love my numberpad.

My issues with the board are that I prefer backlighting, as I like the extra key visibility when I have the lights dim, and, the position of the lettering on the side of the key would drive me insane, so that's a "no go". So, I started to research, trying to find a board that would replicate the typing experience, but had the features that I wanted.

I came up with the following list of features:


Tenkeyless (I'll supplement with a Filco Numberpad)
Cherry MX Brown Switches
Costar stabilizers (...I think?)
No macro keys
Multimedia keys -- I really just need volume/mute control, and it's ok if these are via a Fn modifier, though it's nice if they aren't
Blue backlighting -- I *might* be flexible on this

Also, I'd like this board to last a really long time, so apparently I want PBT keys? And, double-shot injection moulded caps are the best but almost nobody uses them? Are laser-etched that much worse? Almost all the boards seem to use laser-etched, which seems unfortunately. How much do these things matter?

The backlighting seemed to be the most limiting factor, so, I came up with the following list of boards:


Deck 87-key, Francium -- nice backlighting, but wrong switches and holy crap that font is awful
Ducky Shine 3 TKL --seems to be out of stock everywhere, and apparently uses Cherry stabilizers that can feel "squishy", which would be bad
Max Blackbird TKL -- seems to fit all my criteria, but OEM is "questionable"?

The Max seems to be the ideal board for my criteria, but apparently it is made by an OEM that some people dislike (iOne)? I honestly can't find a bad review for the board (not the OEM) anywhere, so while there's something to be said for brand loyalty, I'm not sure I'm willing to pass.

At any rate, once I started to see the pickings were going to be pretty slim, I crossed backlighting off the list (theoretically) to see what other options I had. I was impressed with the following boards:


Filco Majestouch 2 TKL -- seems to be a fantastic quality board, so I'd consider dropping the backlighting for the quality; unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be available for purchase in the US >.<
Leopold TKL -- has the cherry stabilizers again
WASD TLK -- not sure about stabilizer type, doesn't seem to have accessible volume controls

Ok, I guess that's it. Am I missing any boards that could potentially work for what I want? It seems like my best choices are between the Max and the Filco, but I can't find the Filco anywhere, anyway. Possibly the WASD.

Budget is under $200. The board will be for a good bit of typing and gaming.

Appreciate the input and sorry this post got so long, ick.


----------



## KipH

OK. A few more for you to look at:
Keykool. Much like a Duck but a bit cheaper. You can even find them in White! Look on banggood for them, good price and slow shipping.
Funk. Beautiful simple design. Only red switch, but if you want brown, red is close.

iOne has done well by me, they seem to depend on the brand for QQ. So something like the Max, it depends mostly on Max how they turn out. iOne themselves can do great work or cut corners depending on what is ordered. I have never minded Cherry stabilizers myself, but I bang the space with thumb









Get a Ducky 3. You won't be sorry or mind the hunt.


----------



## moho9

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> OK. A few more for you to look at:
> Keykool. Much like a Duck but a bit cheaper. You can even find them in White! Look on banggood for them, good price and slow shipping.
> Funk. Beautiful simple design. Only red switch, but if you want brown, red is close.
> 
> iOne has done well by me, they seem to depend on the brand for QQ. So something like the Max, it depends mostly on Max how they turn out. iOne themselves can do great work or cut corners depending on what is ordered. I have never minded Cherry stabilizers myself, but I bang the space with thumb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get a Ducky 3. You won't be sorry or mind the hunt.


Thanks for the suggestions.

Keycool wasn't on my radar at all. And, of course the brown switch model is out of stock. Can't find Funk on the web, but like I said, I'm set on the brown switches.

Are all these manufacturers always so hard to come by in the U.S.? Out of all the model's I'm interested in, only the Max is currently available on any websites I can find. I'm not willing to pay for International Shipping, considering how much the board is going to be in the first place.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moho9*
> 
> Keycool wasn't on my radar at all. And, of course the brown switch model is out of stock. Can't find Funk on the web, but like I said, I'm set on the brown switches.


Purple LOL http://www.banggood.com/Keycool-87II-Purple-Backlit-Mechanical-Gaming-Keyboard-Cherry-MX-Brown-p-90765.html

Kidding! Try this:
http://www.banggood.com/Keycool-108II-Backlit-Mechanical-Gaming-Keyboard-Cherry-Brown-Switch-p-86757.html
I like this one though. not 10less but...
http://www.banggood.com/Keycool-108-Dye-Sublimation-PBT-Mechanical-Gaming-Keyboard-MX-Brown-p-88287.html


----------



## TiezZ BE

Don't know if this has been posted before in this thread

Now available in europe: http://www.cmstore.eu/cm-storm/keyboards/mechanical-key-switch-tester/


----------



## Pandora51

Like predicted I went with the CM Storm Ultimate keyboard. MX blues are indeed the right keys for me.

But I wonder If the Corsair K70 isnt the better choice. The red backlight from the ultimate is a bit too bright in the dark for my tastes and the contrast from the letters without backlight are not as strong as expected.
In several Videos the K70 looks different without backlight and the letters are better visiable. Is this right?

However it seems just the LED dying rate from the K70 is a serious problem.


----------



## Paradigm84

It's too bright even on the lowest setting?


----------



## Pandora51

ah well maybe Im not used too it and its a bit overreaction because my old Logitech G110 was not as bright as this one even on high. I think Coolermaster did a good job with the Leds but otherwise I prefer sometimes disabling the backlight.
Build quality seems great. I cant compare it directly with a quickfire but I guess its on the same level.


----------



## jerrytsao

Great info here! Just bought my first mechanical Filco M-2 104 cherry blue, looks/feels/sounds amazing, gonna try out see what happens


----------



## Paradigm84

Nice choice!


----------



## Spade616

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pandora51*
> 
> Like predicted I went with the CM Storm Ultimate keyboard. MX blues are indeed the right keys for me.
> 
> But I wonder If the Corsair K70 isnt the better choice. The red backlight from the ultimate is a bit too bright in the dark for my tastes and the contrast from the letters without backlight are not as strong as expected.
> In several Videos the K70 looks different without backlight and the letters are better visiable. Is this right?
> 
> However it seems just the LED dying rate from the K70 is a serious problem.


just got the same keyboard, the asian version has red leds on the mx blue version. its freakin awesome! i usually keep the leds on the second lowest setting, as they are indeed too bright on full. i wanna type forever now lol


----------



## Shardnax

Not sure when it was added but thanks for the links to the various switch testing samplers.


----------



## Pandora51

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spade616*
> 
> just got the same keyboard, the asian version has red leds on the mx blue version. its freakin awesome! i usually keep the leds on the second lowest setting, as they are indeed too bright on full. i wanna type forever now lol


yap I needed some time to get used to this keyboard. The leds are extremly bright and the keyboard is a bit thicker. But Quality wise its a really good keyboard. And I never found a review about dying leds like with the Corsair K70.
I feel like the CM Storm series is the only good mech keyboard for around 100 euros in the EU.

Suprisingly people in skype told me they found the sound from the mx blue better than the mx red. For myself I love this noise! It has sometimes a "ping" sound but I guess this is normal. Or is it? I dont know.
And I have no problems with double tapping.

The red version seems to exist in canada, asian and germany as far as I know.


----------



## Darthmullet

Anyone have experience with the new "Razer Green" switch?

Looks like a Cherry MX variant by its picture but I am no expert. Just curious if this is Razer PR or actually something worth looking into, and how it compares to other switches.


----------



## FranBunnyFFXII

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darthmullet*
> 
> Anyone have experience with the new "Razer Green" switch?


No, it was just announced and released

it's a variant of the MX blues


----------



## deltatux

Hey guys,

I noticed that Razer just said that they made their own mechanical switches that are "meant for gaming". While I find that assertion to be silly marketing, anyone has any thoughts if these switches are any good? I've personally only played with Cherry MX switch keyboards, including the Cherry MX Blue switch inside my Razer BlackWidow (pre 2013) keyboard.

More here: http://www.razerzone.com/razer-mechanical-switches

Thoughts?

deltatux


----------



## anoob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deltatux*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> I noticed that Razer just said that they made their own mechanical switches that are "meant for gaming". While I find that assertion to be silly marketing, anyone has any thoughts if these switches are any good? I've personally only played with Cherry MX switch keyboards, including the Cherry MX Blue switch inside my Razer BlackWidow (pre 2013) keyboard.
> 
> More here: http://www.razerzone.com/razer-mechanical-switches
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> deltatux


Probably Kailh switches from what everyone is talking about. IMO overpriced over the tried and true Cherry MX switches.


----------



## KipH

Almost definitely Probably Kailh switches, with "our own engineers on the factory floor to ensure better than "other company" quality control." Still, should have been much cheaper, not exactly the same price, and they should have mentioned it on the box. Calling it "Green" and not saying what they really are is a bit off. We are in the post MX erra now folks. If it does not say Cherry MX its not Cherry.

Now that Cherry patent is expired, all the clone factories in China can make their own switch. I just hope it makes Cherry come out with something new and special soon, more than multi LED switches







And figure out better quantity control. No need for running out or limited availability.

That said, I am typing this on a Topre. LOL Suckers with you "switches of colour" soon you will join me! (insert evil laugh here)


----------



## FranBunnyFFXII

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Almost definitely Probably Kailh switches, with "our own engineers on the factory floor to ensure better than "other company" quality control." Still, should have been much cheaper, not exactly the same price, and they should have mentioned it on the box. Calling it "Green" and not saying what they really are is a bit off. We are in the post MX erra now folks. If it does not say Cherry MX its not Cherry.
> 
> Now that Cherry patent is expired, all the clone factories in China can make their own switch. I just hope it makes Cherry come out with something new and special soon, more than multi LED switches
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And figure out better quantity control. No need for running out or limited availability.
> 
> That said, I am typing this on a Topre. LOL Suckers with you "switches of colour" soon you will join me! (insert evil laugh here)


Buckling springs>Topre

I'll never join your overpriced rubberdomes


----------



## sotorious

I am having a hard time finding the main keys one color and the control, alt, windows, ****, enter, tab, etc another color.

Anyone know of a company that sells them in packs like that?


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sotorious*
> 
> I am having a hard time finding the main keys one color and the control, alt, windows, ****, enter, tab, etc another color.
> 
> Anyone know of a company that sells them in packs like that?


You could make your own set on WASDKeyboards.


----------



## magicase

I need honest opinions from people who have Blue/Green keys with O rings. Do the O rings reduce overall noise?


----------



## KipH

They lower the noise if you bottom out. Don't bottom out and its the same. You should not be bottoming out hard enough to make that much noise, type smart.
LOL


----------



## magicase

But does it change the sound frequency of the click part?


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *magicase*
> 
> But does it change the sound frequency of the click part?


The O-ring only prevents the sound caused by the keycap supports (little bits of plastic between the stem and the wall of the keycap) from hitting the top of the switch. They won't alter the sound of the click.


----------



## DF is BUSY

are all the left-most and right-most spacebar switch holes on a PBT spacebar 100.10mm apart?

i wanna order a pbt keyset from vendio/qtan but my spacebar's left and right holes are 105mm apart. while his are i believe 100.10mm (from a picture i saw on his site)

does this mean his pbt spacebar wont fit on my board?


----------



## frag85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *magicase*
> 
> I need honest opinions from people who have Blue/Green keys with O rings. Do the O rings reduce overall noise?


Yes. they quiet down the bottoming out clack quite a bit.. I like them on my MXReds. I'm using the WASD red o-rings and noone on Teamspeak hears me typing, and I never hear it when recording gameplay.

For a while I had looked around for the same size/hardness, but they were nowhere to be found at a reasonable price for ordering around 100 of them. There were plenty of cheaper, harder o-rings, but I wanted to be sure I got a similar result to the WASD o rings.


----------



## magicase

I know that Cherry MX Clear are a stronger version of Browns but is the tactile feel on the Clears as good as Blue/Green?


----------



## Kokin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *magicase*
> 
> I know that Cherry MX Clear are a stronger version of Browns but is the tactile feel on the Clears as good as Blue/Green?


I had the chance to visit WASD keyboards (I never knew they were located a few miles away from me) and try out both their MX Clears and MX Greens, both on plated-mounted keyboards. I tried out both their WASD V2 keyboard and the CODE keyboard (basically a back-lit version of the V2).

My experience with my KBT Race (MX Brown) and the WASD V2 (MX Clear) & CODE (MX Green w/ thin o-rings):

-MX Clears are definitely more tactile than Browns
-MX Clears are more silent than MX Browns (partly due to the tactile bump being more pronounced)
-MX Clears are VERY heavy/stiff compared to Browns, they feel as heavy as some rubberdomes especially trying to clear the large tactile bump

-MX Greens w/ thin o-rings felt the most natural to type with
-MX Greens have the same pronounced clicks as MX Blues do (maybe not as loud? not sure)
-MX Greens are heavier/stiffer than MX Blues, but not as much as MX Clears

-Due to the audible clicks from the MX Greens, they felt more responsive to type with and I found myself typing slightly quicker and making less mistakes with them than with MX Clears or MX Browns
-If silence is what you are looking for MX Clears are the most silent switches I have ever typed on (I've tried Brown, Blue, Red, Black, Green, Clear)

To answer your question, I feel as if the MX Clears have a more pronounced tactile feel compared to the MX Greens/Blues.


----------



## magicase

Thanks for that Kolin. I might buy the Deck Legend which is all that's left of the MX Clears I can find online.

+rep


----------



## Kokin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *magicase*
> 
> Thanks for that Kolin. I might buy the Deck Legend which is all that's left of the MX Clears I can find online.
> 
> +rep


WASD is getting their MX Clears at the end of this month, maybe worth the wait.


----------



## magicase

Ok will wait for them. Which brand will these keyboards be?


----------



## zflamewing

WASD's own build.


----------



## rows

@ kokin, how about FPS gaming regarding the MX clear and greens?


----------



## TiezZ BE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kokin*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I had the chance to visit WASD keyboards (I never knew they were located a few miles away from me) and try out both their MX Clears and MX Greens, both on plated-mounted keyboards. I tried out both their WASD V2 keyboard and the CODE keyboard (basically a back-lit version of the V2).
> 
> 
> My experience with my KBT Race (MX Brown) and the WASD V2 (MX Clear) & CODE (MX Green w/ thin o-rings):
> 
> -MX Clears are definitely more tactile than Browns
> -MX Clears are more silent than MX Browns (partly due to the tactile bump being more pronounced)
> -MX Clears are VERY heavy/stiff compared to Browns, they feel as heavy as some rubberdomes especially trying to clear the large tactile bump
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> -MX Greens w/ thin o-rings felt the most natural to type with
> -MX Greens have the same pronounced clicks as MX Blues do (maybe not as loud? not sure)
> -MX Greens are heavier/stiffer than MX Blues, but not as much as MX Clears
> 
> -Due to the audible clicks from the MX Greens, they felt more responsive to type with and I found myself typing slightly quicker and making less mistakes with them than with MX Clears or MX Browns
> 
> 
> -If silence is what you are looking for MX Clears are the most silent switches I have ever typed on (I've tried Brown, Blue, Red, Black, Green, Clear)
> 
> To answer your question, I feel as if the MX Clears have a more pronounced tactile feel compared to the MX Greens/Blues.


I've tried a keyboard with MX blacks a while back in a shop, they were really heavy/stiff, are the clears noticeable lighter compared to the blacks?
I also tested a corsair with MX reds but those were way too light for me.

I'm still in doubt between browns vs clears...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rows*
> 
> @ kokin, how about FPS gaming regarding the MX clear and greens?


Same question (@Kokin) but between clear vs browns


----------



## Paradigm84

There will be a negligible difference between how each switch performs in game with a few exceptions, a lot of gaming companies like to make up stuff about a certain switch being "for gaming", when it's complete rubbish, no switch is universally better for any purpose for every person, it's completely subjective.

The aforementioned exceptions which some people avoid for the specific purpose of gaming are the clicky switches, the most popular MX varieties being MX Blues and MX Greens.

Clicky MX switches (not necessarily exclusively) exhibit a property where the actuation and reset points are substantially far apart. This may not sound like a big issue (and for some people it isn't), but what this is means is after actuating the switch, you have to let the switch move up further than it's actuation point so the switch can reset back to it's normal state.

In practice this means that instead of being able to just hold the switch partially down, just above the actuation point, so you can actuate the switch quickly, you'll have to release the switch an extra amount every time to let it reset.

This can get annoying for some people as it requires an extra amount of travel over some competing mechanical switches.

Some people however don't care about this, if you're the type of gamer that completely releases the switch after you've pressed it, then this difference in actuation vs reset points won't matter to you at all.

Which switch you go for is completely down to personal preference, we can't tell you which switch to buy. If you'd like more information to go on before deciding on a switch, you could consider getting a switch sampler, several different options of which have been listed in the guide on the first page. It is worth noting however, that trying a single switch in a sampler won't necessarily give you a clear picture of whether or not you will like the switch long term, e.g. during long typing sessions.


----------



## Kokin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rows*
> 
> @ kokin, how about FPS gaming regarding the MX clear and greens?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiezZ BE*
> 
> I've tried a keyboard with MX blacks a while back in a shop, they were really heavy/stiff, are the clears noticeable lighter compared to the blacks?
> I also tested a corsair with MX reds but those were way too light for me.
> 
> I'm still in doubt between browns vs clears...
> Same question (@Kokin) but between clear vs browns


Paradigm84 hit the main points of gaming between different switches. It really does come down to personal preference as well as how one presses and lets go of a key.

I only got the chance to type on the keyboard and not play games on it but I did take my sweet time. If I had to give an opinion, I do prefer my MX Browns or even MX Clears for gaming. I agree with Paradigm that when trying to press a key of a clicky switch multiple times, is not as "easy" compared to just a tactile-only switch.

It was my original plan to go with the MX Clears, but after trying out the MX Greens, I may just go for the Greens. I do plenty of typing on forums and for school work (papers and programming), but I also do a fair bit of gaming (mostly LoL). I'm pretty set on Greens due how much I love the way it feels when typing. You could say I was clicked at first touch (pun and cheesiness intended







).

If you guys could get the sample switches, it may give you a better idea of what you'd want.


----------



## magicase

I can get the Deck Legend for the $40 more than WASD keyboards after shipping but my question is how good are the ABS keycaps on the WASD keyboards compared to other ABS keycaps? Currently using the Deck Hassium PBT keycaps and I love the feel of them over ABS as I have had bad experience with ABS since they wear too fast for me.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *magicase*
> 
> I can get the Deck Legend for the $40 more than WASD keyboards after shipping but my question is how good are the ABS keycaps on the WASD keyboards compared to other ABS keycaps? Currently using the Deck Hassium PBT keycaps and I love the feel of them over ABS as I have had bad experience with ABS since they wear too fast for me.


I found the WASD ABS keycaps to wear pretty quickly, within 3 months or so the most used keys were very shiny.


----------



## azianai

Got my Code MX Clear



Feels better than MX Browns, a lot heavier than my MX reds and my 45g Topre keys.
Has a similar bump to MX Blues to me.


----------



## newchemicals

Looks great would love to hear more after you use it for a week or two.


----------



## DF is BUSY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *magicase*
> 
> I can get the Deck Legend for the $40 more than WASD keyboards after shipping but my question is how good are the ABS keycaps on the WASD keyboards compared to other ABS keycaps? Currently using the Deck Hassium PBT keycaps and I love the feel of them over ABS as I have had bad experience with ABS since they wear too fast for me.
> 
> 
> 
> I found the WASD ABS keycaps to wear pretty quickly, within 3 months or so the most used keys were very shiny.
Click to expand...

i can attest to this, WASD has some pretty thin abs caps and they catch shine pretty quickly. Some of my main keys became pretty shiny within a few months, other keys within 6-7 months.


----------



## Levelog

Got a new (old) keyboard today. Anyone know if those DIN to PS2 adapters are any good? I know they're very similar from a technical standpoint. And anyone have any info on this keyboard to share?


----------



## Vici0us

For those who were wondering about new RAZER (Green) switches. I bought RAZER Blackwidow Ultimate (2014) about 5 days ago (finally got a chance to break it in). I like them very much, very clicky (at least IMO), loud IMO (I don't mind that at all), feels accurate/very enjoyable playing FPS games. Also, feels accurate/enjoyable typing. I can't really compare them because before this I had Cherry MX Brown and they were alright.. but these Green switches is like comparing Honda to a Lambo. I do admit typing and playing games is more enjoyable now without a doubt. I'll never go back to Cherry MX brown.
These are the best shots I could get with a camera. Backlightning is beautiful.


----------



## Atavax

i have a quick question. like a year or two ago every keyboard that was n key rollover required it to be connected via ps2 for it to be n key rollover. Now i'm seeing keyboards claiming n key rollover with USB. What changed?


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i have a quick question. like a year or two ago every keyboard that was n key rollover required it to be connected via ps2 for it to be n key rollover. Now i'm seeing keyboards claiming n key rollover with USB. What changed?


Some manufacturers figured out tricks to allow an attempt at NKRO using USB. As for why they did it, marketing primarily I would guess.

There's some other info about it listed in the guide itself on the first page of this thread.


----------



## frag85

A chip was designed to be able to do this over USB. There's now a few different chip manufacturers that do this for various brand keyboards.

I still use P/S2 since it is interrupt based, which will always be better than USB in that regard (though, there are few situations where this makes a difference).


----------



## Rakunvar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vici0us*
> 
> For those who were wondering about new RAZER (Green) switches. I bought RAZER Blackwidow Ultimate (2014) about 5 days ago (finally got a chance to break it in). I like them very much, very clicky (at least IMO), loud IMO (I don't mind that at all), feels accurate/very enjoyable playing FPS games. Also, feels accurate/enjoyable typing. I can't really compare them because before this I had Cherry MX Brown and they were alright.. but these Green switches is like comparing Honda to a Lambo. I do admit typing and playing games is more enjoyable now without a doubt. I'll never go back to Cherry MX brown.
> These are the best shots I could get with a camera. Backlightning is beautiful.


Yea just got one to test out actually, wondering if the "stealth" version's any quieter and how people prefer of the two.Here''s the comparison from the box. Seems like They're close to MX blue I think..

Actuation point: of 1.9+0.4mm vs standard 2.2+0.6mm
Actuation vs Reset point: 0.4mm vs 0.7mm
Life span: Up to 60 Million keystrokes vs up to 20 million.
The regular ultimate has a 50g actuation force, and the stealth I believe has a 45g force.

Figured someone may be interested or want to know the specs they listed for these, I haven't had the privilege to test most of the key types sadly.


----------



## Vici0us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rakunvar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Vici0us*
> 
> For those who were wondering about new RAZER (Green) switches. I bought RAZER Blackwidow Ultimate (2014) about 5 days ago (finally got a chance to break it in). I like them very much, very clicky (at least IMO), loud IMO (I don't mind that at all), feels accurate/very enjoyable playing FPS games. Also, feels accurate/enjoyable typing. I can't really compare them because before this I had Cherry MX Brown and they were alright.. but these Green switches is like comparing Honda to a Lambo. I do admit typing and playing games is more enjoyable now without a doubt. I'll never go back to Cherry MX brown.
> These are the best shots I could get with a camera. Backlightning is beautiful.
> 
> 
> 
> Yea just got one to test out actually, wondering if the "stealth" version's any quieter and how people prefer of the two.Here''s the comparison from the box. Seems like They're close to MX blue I think..
> 
> Actuation point: of 1.9+0.4mm vs standard 2.2+0.6mm
> Actuation vs Reset point: 0.4mm vs 0.7mm
> Life span: Up to 60 Million keystrokes vs up to 20 million.
> The regular ultimate has a 50g actuation force, and the stealth I believe has a 45g force.
> 
> Figured someone may be interested or want to know the specs they listed for these, I haven't had the privilege to test most of the key types sadly.
Click to expand...

I got used to it by now, I don't even notice how loud it is anymore. Typing and gaming is much better now. I should have bought RAZER keyboards long time ago.


----------



## SightUp

Which switches activate the quickest?


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> Which switches activate the quickest?


Depends on the force you are using, all Cherry MX switches have the actuation at the same point in the switch travel.

In theory, the new Razer switches would actuate faster as their actuation point is closer to the top of the switch travel, however the difference is so small (fractions of a millimetre), that I'm not sure it provides any tangible benefit. To put it another way, your reaction time will be significantly higher (possibly even an order of magnitude higher) than the amount of time saved by the "faster" switch.


----------



## frag85

AFAIK all *CherryMX* switches are 2mm.
Not sure about any of the other desktop mechanical switches, but the CherrryML laptop based switches are 1.5mm.

There are technical drawings around that show when and how much force the presses require and where the key activates.

Like:


----------



## Paradigm84

You can find more force diagrams for different switches in the Guide itself.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

So apparently Razer have made and I quote "The World's First Mechanical Switch Designed for Gaming"






Web page

Apparently these new switches actuation point is 1.9±0.4 as apposed to the "standard mechanical switch" of 2.2±0.6 and an actuation vs reset point of 0.05mm as apposed to 0.1mm

And all this somehow gives Razers lifespan of up to 60 million keystrokes... that is if the keyboard lasts more then a few months









May have some new switches to add to the guide


----------



## clownfart

I had to stop the video at "We pioneered the very first mechanical gaming keyboard." Literally the only thing making it a "gaming keyboard" is them calling it that. There are no attributes that differentiates a keyboard from a _gaming_ keyboard.

That being said, if we want to name the first company to put that label on a keyboard, SteelSeries did it long before.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *clownfart*
> 
> I had to stop the video at "We pioneered the very first mechanical gaming keyboard." Literally the only thing making it a "gaming keyboard" is them calling it that. There are no attributes that differentiates a keyboard from a _gaming_ keyboard.
> 
> That being said, if we want to name the first company to put that label on a keyboard, SteelSeries did it long before.


I watched the whole thing and feel stupider for it, and your correct nothing really makes a gaming keyboard a gaming keyboard, I have a standard Leopold Cherry brown keyboard and I have no problem gaming on it without all these fancy macro keys, backlighting etc, to me a "gaming keyboard" is what ever the hell you fell comfortable with










SteelSeries are much better quality to









What made me laugh is the actuation levels, with such small amounts like 0.05mm blinking becomes more of an issue then the 0.0000000001ms it takes to press a key...


----------



## stevebd62

I agree some people I know like the $30 board from walmart I like my cherry black it's all about preference.


----------



## James4832

Anyone know of any replacement keycaps for a Logitech G710+ that have transparent letters? I really hate the font, and how the Shift keys modifiers are upside-down.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> So apparently Razer have made and I quote "The World's First Mechanical Switch Designed for Gaming"
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Web page
> 
> Apparently these new switches actuation point is 1.9±0.4 as apposed to the "standard mechanical switch" of 2.2±0.6 and an actuation vs reset point of 0.05mm as apposed to 0.1mm
> 
> And all this somehow gives Razers lifespan of up to 60 million keystrokes... that is if the keyboard lasts more then a few months
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> May have some new switches to add to the guide


More discussion can be found here:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1471997/razer-razer-launches-worlds-first-keyboard-mechanical-switch-designed-for-gaming


----------



## Offler

Hello guys.

Since my very old Logitech Deluxe 250 is reaching end of its life I checked these boards.

PS/2
Advantages:
Supports full NKRO.
PS/2 keyboards aren't polled, but are completely interrupt based.
Impossible for it to be delayed by the USB bus being used by other devices.

I was sucessfull to obtain quite new mainboard with two PS/2 connectors = one for mouse and one for keyboard. However its almost impossible to buy any PS2 keyboard around, when it comes to mice there is still undying Logitech MX 518.

I prefer PS/2 over USB due reasons mentioned above. Is it possible to purchase something which supports PS/2? I found only USB keyboards... (still checking the forum, but it may take days







)


----------



## Paradigm84

Many modern mechanical keyboards support both USB and PS/2, those that do will usually come with a USB to PS/2 adapter in the box.

In terms of which board would be best for you, I'd suggest posting in the Keyboard Suggestion thread and we can help you out.


----------



## Offler

Thanks. Already done.


----------



## davcc22

the *pimp my keyboard* link is dead its throwing 404 error


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davcc22*
> 
> the *pimp my keyboard* link is dead its throwing 404 error


Seems to be working fine now!


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KipH*
> 
> That said, I am typing this on a Topre. LOL Suckers with you "switches of colour" soon you will join me! (insert evil laugh here)


There's still nothing that beats an old IBM Model M...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levelog*
> 
> Got a new (old) keyboard today. Anyone know if those DIN to PS2 adapters are any good? I know they're very similar from a technical standpoint. And anyone have any info on this keyboard to share?


I know you posted this a while back, but what is the model number on the bottom of the keyboard? IBM made a lot of different keyboards back then, some of them good and some not as good, although even their non-mechanical models don't totally suck.

The DIN to PS/2 adapter isn't likely to cause any problem. The electrical signaling is the same. I've even gone so far as to use a DIN to PS/2 adapter hooked up to a USB adapter, and it almost always works.


----------



## greywarden

Hey guys, I got a Cherry LPOS for free from work (card swiper quit working) but I don't think it's actually a mechanical, When I pull the switch out there's not a replaceable switch, it seems to be a "spillproof" keyboard. I can't really get a picture of the keys right now, but I figured I would ask if it were possible that there were replacement keycaps for these.

Also the lights keep flashing and I can't figure out how to stop them, I downloaded the Cherry software and ran it but the lights keep flashing.

[edit]: So I pulled it apart and it's not mechanical. There's a printed plastic circuit board and a silicone/rubber suspension sort of thing, then keys. Cleaning all the junk out, maybe It will fix the flashing lights which I found out is a circuit problem (only website that had a definitive answer said that was the issue), but all the keys work just fine.


----------



## friarspit

sorry but had to reply to the part where it says that using the standard keys causes fatigue, lol if any type of keys causes that then you should seek medical help. I game online daily hours at a time and assure you that the only thing that may make you take a break or have any type of ill feeling is cramp which is caused regardless of keyboard type


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friarspit*
> 
> sorry but had to reply to the part where it says that using the standard keys causes fatigue, lol if any type of keys causes that then you should seek medical help. I game online daily hours at a time and assure you that the only thing that may make you take a break or have any type of ill feeling is cramp which is caused regardless of keyboard type


So because your fingers don't get tired in your specific case, anyone different should seek medical help? k.


----------



## Walterg74

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fortunex*
> 
> So because your fingers don't get tired in your specific case, anyone different should seek medical help? k.


Well reading his comment I'd say that he's statubg two things actually, the first being he doesn't get tired/fatigued/pain, which could be true if the keyboard is right for m, and then he says if any does feel it they should seek medical help, and which of course is 100% true... All ppl are different, and regardless if keyboard choices or opinions, what you're using causes you pain, you should seek medical help asap.. Don't know what you are seeing wrong with that..


----------



## Fortunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Walterg74*
> 
> Well reading his comment I'd say that he's statubg two things actually, the first being he doesn't get tired/fatigued/pain, which could be true if the keyboard is right for m, and then he says if any does feel it they should seek medical help, and which of course is 100% true... All ppl are different, and regardless if keyboard choices or opinions, what you're using causes you pain, you should seek medical help asap.. Don't know what you are seeing wrong with that..


I didn't see anything about pain in his post. He said _fatigue_.


----------



## travisantonio

Thanks for the big guide, read it a long time ago but didn't have an account to post.


----------



## Paradigm84

Glad you like it.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *travisantonio*
> 
> Thanks for the big guide, read it a long time ago but didn't have an account to post.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Glad you like it.


Glad you joined OCN too. Welcome aboard.


----------



## travisantonio

Thank you all for the welcome.


----------



## TheChankWhoGank

Hi im wondering if anyone knows about the ducky shine 3 tuhaojin. I love it and its been going strong the whole time for 3months now but i just checked it out that when i had the LED's on the whole time and the back near the dip switches gets hot, idk if it is normal for keyboards to get hot or not, or it is my board having some faulty soldering connections


----------



## vuhoang1411

This is my mechanical keyboard, with led-mod


----------



## davcc22

well i'm getting a new mech keyboard its either a quick fire tk or one of these things it looks really nice too it got a 96% on tweaktown


----------



## Exfiltrate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davcc22*
> 
> well i'm getting a new mech keyboard its either a quick fire tk or one of these things it looks really nice too it got a 96% on tweaktown


Jesus, it's hideous.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davcc22*
> 
> well i'm getting a new mech keyboard its either a quick fire tk or one of these things it looks really nice too it got a 96% on tweaktown


If you're into the whole industrial space cockpit / spaceship look (or you have a room that's retrofitted like a cockpit







), the levetron would be ok. I personally like sleek minimalist, so a definite no for the levetron!


----------



## Cyber Akuma

Are the switches themselves on the CM Storm Trigger removable without desoldering? Spilled soda on it and tried to clean it out overnight as best I could, but now a few of the switches themselves are clearly requiring more force to push down than the rest, they are Cherry MX Red switches so it's easy to tell they aren't supposed to have much, well, practically any force to push down.


----------



## Paradigm84

They will need desoldering.


----------



## Cyber Akuma

Great, so do you have any advice on what I can do without desoldering them? I am guessing I can't just spray contact cleaner on it with the switches still soldered in.... if that would even clean them.


----------



## Paradigm84

Check here.


----------



## Cyber Akuma

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Check here.


Heh, I read that one before replying here actually







That original guide is how I learned about mechanical keyboards and chose this one.

I don't think just giving the PCB a water bath will do it though (If it can even be removed, I haven't tried to completely disassemble the thing yet, but the switches appear to be connected to a metal backplate, not sure if they can be realistically removed from it.

Would I be able to use a plastic-safe contact cleaner like this? www.amazon.com/Hosa-Cable-Deoxit-Contact-Cleaner/dp/B00006LVEU/

Or would that just cause more damage?


----------



## Xanatos

Has anyone actually worn out their MX cherry brown switches?


----------



## Jixr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xanatos*
> 
> Has anyone actually worn out their MX cherry brown switches?


you would have to type every day at 1000x wpm for decades before you would eventually wear out a switch due to the plastic wearing down or something like that.


----------



## LocoDiceGR

I have a simple question for you guyyyys

Blackwidow Ultimate 2014 *Or* CM Storm Quickfire Ultimate

and why?

Thanks in advance, love u all!


----------



## Jixr

Neither, Ducky Shine 3 if you want back lights or Quickfire XT if you dont


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jixr*
> 
> Neither, Ducky Shine 3 if you want back lights or Quickfire XT if you dont


There isn't as much variety of board choices in many EU countries, they might not be feasible options.

Personally, I'd go for the QuickFire Ultimate out of those two.


----------



## davcc22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jixr*
> 
> Neither, Ducky Shine 3 if you want back lights or Quickfire XT if you dont


ill second the quick fire xt great piece of hard ware


----------



## Xanatos

Is there a linear switch that has a force that's in-between the MX Black and MX Red? It doesn't have to be Cherry.

Or can I achieve something similar by adding o-rings to a MX Black keyboard? or MX Red?


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xanatos*
> 
> Is there a linear switch that has a force that's in-between the MX Black and MX Red? It doesn't have to be Cherry.
> 
> Or can I achieve something similar by adding o-rings to a MX Black keyboard? or MX Red?


You'd have to mod a black switch and swap out the springs! There are ebay (very rare) stores or even specialists that sells different spring weights. I think the best springs are 67 gms!

Here's a link to *originative*, they're currently out of stock but hopefully they stock up soon!

EDIT; I wish there were 70-72 g. springs out there as I think between 80g (MX Black) and 60 g. (MX Red) is the sweet spot!


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Question any one know where to get black and white (black keys white writing and white keys black writing) PBT caps?

Thanks


----------



## 298703

I've been using my Ducky Shine 3 YOTS with Reds since it's come out, and absolutely adore Reds. So easy to type on.

I've always wanted to try Blues and a TKL board, so picked up a Ducky TKL with Blues.

Right now, the experience is a bit rough. The bump is making me not press the key all the way down, since I'm used to the force used with Reds.

Should I stick with both switches and I'll get used to using both eventually? Or should I pick up a Red TKL board?


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WuMyster*
> 
> I've been using my Ducky Shine 3 YOTS with Reds since it's come out, and absolutely adore Reds. So easy to type on.
> 
> I've always wanted to try Blues and a TKL board, so picked up a Ducky TKL with Blues.
> 
> Right now, the experience is a bit rough. The bump is making me not press the key all the way down, since I'm used to the force used with Reds.
> 
> Should I stick with both switches and I'll get used to using both eventually? Or should I pick up a Red TKL board?


It's really preference when it comes to what switch you like! If you're comfortable with the reds and don't make a lot of errors when you type on them, then stick with the reds.

I personally have tried browns (lighter blues), black and red. The brown switch felt too gritty for me but the good thing going for it is the bump before actuation point, it felt like the weight of the keys were perfect for me, not too light, not too heavy. The grittyness just really killed it for me, so I returned my brown switch KB and had that replaced with a black KB. I also bought a second mech with reds because the blacks would fatigue me when typing for a time or gaming for a few hours.

The black and red feel nice and clean, no gritty feeling because of it's linear nature. I am personally going to end up looking for springs to find a compromise between red and black (maybe a 67 g or 72 g springs). Personally that's my sweet spot, I find the black fatigues me over time, while the reds are just a tad bit too light for my tastes!


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WuMyster*
> 
> The bump is making me not press the key all the way down, since I'm used to the force used with Reds.


That's the point of tactile switches. You don't have to bottom out since the key activates about half way down. But like the above poster said, it's personal preference. I prefer gaming on linear switches (reds and blacks), but prefer typing on stiff tactile switches (greens, whites, clears, buckling springs, blues to a lesser extent).


----------



## Paradigm84

All Cherry MX switches actuate at roughly halfway down the travel, not just the tactile ones.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> All Cherry MX switches actuate at roughly halfway down the travel, not just the tactile ones.


Yeah I didn't mean to suggest otherwise, the point of tactile is to let you know you've hit the actuation point. Linear switches don't let you know this.


----------



## Paradigm84

Ah ok, my mistake.


----------



## davcc22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Question any one know where to get black and white (black keys white writing and white keys black writing) PBT caps?
> 
> Thanks


this might work mate but you will have to get that real fine metho marker out


----------



## gene-z

Why is it so hard to find black blank thick PBT?


----------



## Exfiltrate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Why is it so hard to find black blank thick PBT?


Not that hard.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/vortex-pbt-keycaps?mode=guest_open


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exfiltrate*
> 
> Not that hard.
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/vortex-pbt-keycaps?mode=guest_open


Those aren't black. It's like a washed out black, light grey.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Ducky also has the PBT blank caps but they are hard to come by!


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Those aren't black. It's like a washed out black, light grey.


As far as I'm aware they are as black as any other PBT keycaps you'll find, I think they just look slightly grey because of the surface of the PBT and the lighting the photographer used.


----------



## Exfiltrate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> As far as I'm aware they are as black as any other PBT keycaps you'll find, I think they just look slightly grey because of the surface of the PBT and the lighting the photographer used.


Well, here, these are as black as they get. Not really too hard to find, just depends on how much you are willing to spend.

http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets/products/black-otaku


----------



## frag85

They're black. I'm sure if they weren't black enough you could easily return or sell them.

Lighting and camera settings make all the difference.







vs.










I can assure you the CMStorm boards and caps are black like the first pic.


----------



## Jixr

it looks so weird seeing XT's in their stock form, I painted mine the day i got it, blue and white.


----------



## davcc22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frag85*
> 
> They're black. I'm sure if they weren't black enough you could easily return or sell them.
> 
> Lighting and camera settings make all the difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can assure you the CMStorm boards and caps are black like the first pic.


ahh so that slight bend in the middle is normal thought id bent my xt for a moment there lol


----------



## frag85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davcc22*
> 
> ahh so that slight bend in the middle is normal thought id bent my xt for a moment there lol


There's some distortion from the camera lens. It was taken with a cheap Canon SD850IS.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Couple of questions

Does anyone know if these & these keycaps are ABS or PBT? Only keycaps I've found that actually tickle my fancy but I wear ABS caps out to quick from gaming









Thanks


----------



## Paradigm84

Whilst it's not always true, as a general rule, unless it actually says PBT on the advertising, they will probably be ABS.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Whilst it's not always true, as a general rule, unless it actually says PBT on the advertising, they will probably be ABS.


Thats what I guessed just thought I'd ask still, thanks

Back to hunting lol


----------



## Jixr

Outside of Vortex and some original cherry sets, all doubble shots are going to be thin abs caps.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jixr*
> 
> Outside of Vortex and some original cherry sets, all doubble shots are going to be thin abs caps.










I'd buy Vortex but the lettering is weird colours, I wanted dark keys (black or grey) with white writing, all the Vortex caps I've seen have been white with pink, red, orange etc lettering


----------



## Jixr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd buy Vortex but the lettering is weird colours, I wanted dark keys (black or grey) with white writing, all the Vortex caps I've seen have been white with pink, red, orange etc lettering


http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=774

They make em, but where to find them is an issue.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jixr*
> 
> http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=774
> 
> They make em, but where to find them is an issue.


Thought I'd seen them before but couldnt remember where

Why is it so hard to find "normal" coloured keys?


----------



## Nisto

Hi all. I recently got curious about mechanical keyboards and eventually found my way to this thread. It seems like a great resource. Keep up the good work everyone!

Currently I use a membrane keyboard, and have been for as long as I can remember basically (well, I used mechnical keyboards back in the 90s, but since I switched I never really tried anything else). I'm looking for a mechanical keyboard with media keys (at least back/forward/play&pause/stop keys), but from what I can tell the options are rather scarce (yeah, I know I can use AutoHotkey and make custom hotkeys, but I'm finding it really hard to come up with good hotkeys for so many buttons without ruining/blocking/interfering with functionality in any program, while also keeping it practical and somewhat logical). So I would really like some dedicated buttons (they don't necessarily have to be media keys specifically - as long as they're "reserved" keys).

I don't like the flashy look of the Corsair Vengeance series. And from what I hear, they break rather easily (at least the LEDs). For me, quality is a big concern, and I'd rather have an ugly keyboard with great build quality than a keyboard with nice/flashy aesthetics with subpar build quality. I hate the backlit look and I wouldn't use it personally, as I am always in an environment where I can see the letter printing on my keyboard. It's a functionality that really just clutters the keyboard for me personally (in this case I'm referring to the on/off, backlight configuration keys, etc.). So I've pretty much ruled it out.

The brands I've come across are Cooler Master, Corsair, Das Keyboard, Ducky, Filco, Func, Gamdias, Gigabyte, Logitech, Mionix, Ozone, QPAD, Razer, Roccat, Steelseries, Tesoro, Thermaltake (eSports), Xtrfy, Zowie. I've looked at what ALL of them have to offer. The only brand that seem sensible to me are Filco. BUT, unfortunately, it seems they have no keyboards with media keys or any kind of alternative/macro keys (or do they?) So is there any brand I've missed that might be worth checking out? Or specific keyboards I may have missed even? My priorities are:

- Build quality
- Media keys (or non-standard keys)
- Full-size keyboard (two win/alt/shift/ctrl keys, a context/function button, numpad)

Any help would be appreciated


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nisto*
> 
> Hi all. I recently got curious about mechanical keyboards and eventually found my way to this thread. It seems like a great resource. Keep up the good work everyone!
> 
> Currently I use a membrane keyboard, and have been for as long as I can remember basically (well, I used mechnical keyboards back in the 90s, but since I switched I never really tried anything else). I'm looking for a mechanical keyboard with media keys (at least back/forward/play&pause/stop keys), but from what I can tell the options are rather scarce (yeah, I know I can use AutoHotkey and make custom hotkeys, but I'm finding it really hard to come up with good hotkeys for so many buttons without ruining/blocking/interfering with functionality in any program, while also keeping it practical and somewhat logical). So I would really like some dedicated buttons (they don't necessarily have to be media keys specifically - as long as they're "reserved" keys).
> 
> I don't like the flashy look of the Corsair Vengeance series. And from what I hear, they break rather easily (at least the LEDs). For me, quality is a big concern, and I'd rather have an ugly keyboard with great build quality than a keyboard with nice/flashy aesthetics with subpar build quality. I hate the backlit look and I wouldn't use it personally, as I am always in an environment where I can see the letter printing on my keyboard. It's a functionality that really just clutters the keyboard for me personally (in this case I'm referring to the on/off, backlight configuration keys, etc.). So I've pretty much ruled it out.
> 
> The brands I've come across are Cooler Master, Corsair, Das Keyboard, Ducky, Filco, Func, Gamdias, Gigabyte, Logitech, Mionix, Ozone, QPAD, Razer, Roccat, Steelseries, Tesoro, Thermaltake (eSports), Xtrfy, Zowie. I've looked at what ALL of them have to offer. The only brand that seem sensible to me are Filco. BUT, unfortunately, it seems they have no keyboards with media keys or any kind of alternative/macro keys (or do they?) So is there any brand I've missed that might be worth checking out? Or specific keyboards I may have missed even? My priorities are:
> 
> - Build quality
> - Media keys (or non-standard keys)
> - Full-size keyboard (two win/alt/shift/ctrl keys, a context/function button, numpad)
> 
> Any help would be appreciated


Lots of mechanical keyboards have media keys, though usually they're integrated with the F keys. The CM Storm QuickFire XT and XT stealth are built very well, they're affordable, they're full sized with media keys. The CM Storm Trigger and Trigger-Z are very well built have media keys integrated into the F keys combined with macro keys (which are hardware level so their function is saved in the memory in the keyboard).


----------



## Nisto

Thanks for the recommendation, boredgunner. But honestly, I don't think media keys mapped to the F keys will do it for me. I definitely want dedicated keys I think, as I don't know how the keys will act when I use them in windows other than, say, the desktop (I use F6 all the time in web browsers for example, and I typically have global hotkeys set in foobar2000, my audio player).


----------



## X-Nine

Take a look at Code keyboards. Their media keys have a dedicated function key to enable. Also, the Das 4 Pro is an excellent keyboard with dedicated media keys, albeit no backlighting. I have one of each of the two I mentioned and I absolutely love them both for different reasons.


----------



## CrustyOldFart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XNine*
> 
> Take a look at Code keyboards. Their media keys have a dedicated function key to enable. Also, the Das 4 Pro is an excellent keyboard with dedicated media keys, albeit no backlighting. I have one of each of the two I mentioned and I absolutely love them both for different reasons.


Im considering the CODE right now. anyone have any feedback on this board? The backlighting is adjustable dim to bright, but can it also be switched off for times when you don't want/need it? Otherwise some of the other WASD keyboards look very good too.


----------



## frag85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CrustyOldFart*
> 
> Im considering the CODE right now. anyone have any feedback on this board? The backlighting is adjustable dim to bright, but can it also be switched off for times when you don't want/need it? Otherwise some of the other WASD keyboards look very good too.


As per the codekeyboards.com website:
Quote:


> Clean, beautiful white LED backlighting means you can see your keyboard in even the lowest light conditions. We've also painted the steel backplate underneath the keys white to provide perfectly even light dispersion. Don't care for backlighting? No problem. *Enable or disable the backlight with a simple keypress, or select among seven brightness levels, anywhere from barely-there dim to daylight bright*. Onboard memory saves your backlighting preferences, even if the keyboard is disconnected or the computer is turned off.
> 
> We chose a standard Helvetica font for the keys, because the classics never go out of style. We've carefully positioned the symbols on each individual key so they are evenly lit by the LED underneath.


I've had a WASD with red switches for about a year now, no issues. Still feels and sounds like the day I bought it. I'm considering ordering a TKL w/ Blues for typing. I wish WASD had backlit boards with other switches besides green and clear.


----------



## X-Nine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CrustyOldFart*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *XNine*
> 
> Take a look at Code keyboards. Their media keys have a dedicated function key to enable. Also, the Das 4 Pro is an excellent keyboard with dedicated media keys, albeit no backlighting. I have one of each of the two I mentioned and I absolutely love them both for different reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> Im considering the CODE right now. anyone have any feedback on this board? The backlighting is adjustable dim to bright, but can it also be switched off for times when you don't want/need it? Otherwise some of the other WASD keyboards look very good too.
Click to expand...

I have a Code Clear. This is my 3rd Mech and my favorite out of the Max, Das, and Code that I have owned. Its backlighting is awesome for nighttime use, caps are done up well. I can't see a reason not to get one.


----------



## SkipP

I have tried Corsair (K65, K70), CoolerMaster (the regular and compact), ducky and cherry. None have worked with my motherboard (Gigabyte GA-970-D3). I have an FX-8150. I have no idea why. I keep seeing deals (just saw an open box ducky for $55), and I LOVE using mechanical keyboards. I always get them at work, but I cannot make them work at home. How can I get a mechanical keyboard to work on my computer?


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> I have tried Corsair (K65, K70), CoolerMaster (the regular and compact), ducky and cherry. None have worked with my motherboard (Gigabyte GA-970-D3). I have an FX-8150. I have no idea why. I keep seeing deals (just saw an open box ducky for $55), and I LOVE using mechanical keyboards. I always get them at work, but I cannot make them work at home. How can I get a mechanical keyboard to work on my computer?


If a regular keyboard works, most mechanical keyboards like the QuickFire Rapid should work too. Did you try a different USB port? Did you try PS/2?


----------



## frag85

Are you using the same connector as a keyboard that works (P/S2, USB)?

Check your bios settings for anything related to P/S2 if that is what you are connecting the mech KBs to. Keyboard's a keyboard. Should work with any system.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkipP*
> 
> I have tried Corsair (K65, K70), CoolerMaster (the regular and compact), ducky and cherry. None have worked with my motherboard (Gigabyte GA-970-D3). I have an FX-8150. I have no idea why. I keep seeing deals (just saw an open box ducky for $55), and I LOVE using mechanical keyboards. I always get them at work, but I cannot make them work at home. How can I get a mechanical keyboard to work on my computer?


I would guess it is a dead/defective USB port/controller.


----------



## Jixr

yeah, thats what I would guess too.


----------



## ozlay

got 2 AT101W's 1 black and 1 white thinking about moving keys around to make an interesting color scheme but haven't really decided yet but like the click better then that of the cherry golds in my mx11900


----------



## Jixr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozlay*
> 
> cherry golds


The wha?


----------



## kazzjohnson

I've never used a mechanical keyboard in my life and I'm about to buy one. I'm trying to decide between blue and brown switches.

I used to game a lot, but not so much any more (life gets in the way). I use PC for the usual things, I guess. Browsing, multimedia, some gaming, some office, you know the deal. I might bring it to work as well, I haven't decided on that yet, but that obviously means even more office work.

Browns sound like a good starting point, but I like the sound of blues (and the _idea_ of a strong tactile feedback, since I haven't tried them personally). I'd get blues without a doubt if someone could convince me that they're perfectly fine for gaming (especially FPS).

My options are CM Quickfire TK Stealth with browns and CM Quickfire Rapid-i with blues or browns. I'll probably go for Rapid-i with blues.


----------



## Jixr

blues are fine for gaming, but if you bring them to an office, it may be a bit loud or annoying for any co workers.


----------



## a_ak57

Blues are fine for gaming, they're just not as optimal as some other switches. It's not like your K/D would drop significantly or something, it just means you would be a bit less efficient at double-tapping keys. If you think you might bring it to the office you'd just be better off with browns though. Or maybe clears (larger tactile bump than browns, but stiff).

As always though, I do recommend grabbing a switch sampler kit. Yeah, it's $10 for something you basically won't ever use, but IMO it makes sense to spend that bit of money to ensure you don't spend a much larger amount of money on something that wouldn't be the best for you. Maybe you'd find that you actually like linear better, who knows.


----------



## KipH

I went from Browns to Blues and I like it. If you can't get the new CM Novatouch, the CM Quickfire Rapid-i is a good choice. I have never had an issue with CM. But, if you can touch type, I am moving away from lighting. Save some $ and buy a QuickFire without lights.

The only thing I would warn is TKL. If you are used to having a numpad, going TKL can be some adjustment. I like them, but not really needed from most daily boards. Just don't get the Pro.

Hmmmm, seems they all have lights now. Nevermind.


----------



## Shardnax

Rosewill is selling keycaps now, I didn't see it on the list so I figured I'd post:
http://www.newegg.com/Rosewill-Mouse-Pads-Accessories/BrandSubCat/ID-2177-202

Are there any keyboards that have as many dedicated macro keys as the K95?


----------



## daneiyelr

Good day guys. I'm a new member here and I've already decided to buy a mechanical keyboard because I have my own rig now and I have the extra cash for it.
I've already read a lot of reviews and feedbacks on some mechanical keyboards in the market and the different switches.

I would surely buy one with a Cherry MX switch. I don't like the kailh and razer mechanical switches.









I currently looking to get a keyboard with Cherry MX blues or browns (still trying to decide) and I would also like a backlit one.

So what do you guys think between the Corsair K70 , CM Storm Trigger , Ducky Shine3 ? I would buy one before January







More power to you guys

and one more thing up to how many years do you think a good mechanical keyboard with cherry mx switches will last ?









Things I also consider
- Full sized keyboard
- Blue / Red / Green just one backlight color RGB keyboards are still kinda expensive for me(Still a student here in the Philippines)
- Solid build quality


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daneiyelr*
> 
> Good day guys. I'm a new member here and I've already decided to buy a mechanical keyboard because I have my own rig now and I have the extra cash for it.
> I've already read a lot of reviews and feedbacks on some mechanical keyboards in the market and the different switches.
> 
> I would surely buy one with a Cherry MX switch. I don't like the kailh and razer mechanical switches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I currently looking to get a keyboard with Cherry MX blues or browns (still trying to decide) and I would also like a backlit one.
> 
> So what do you guys think between the Corsair K70 , CM Storm Trigger , Ducky Shine3 ? I would buy one before January
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More power to you guys
> 
> and one more thing up to how many years do you think a good mechanical keyboard with cherry mx switches will last ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Things I also consider
> - Full sized keyboard
> - Blue / Red / Green just one backlight color RGB keyboards are still kinda expensive for me(Still a student here in the Philippines)
> - Solid build quality


I'd go for the Cooler Master Storm Trigger if you want macro keys and dedicated media keys, the Ducky Shine 3 otherwise. I only say that because I haven't used the original Corsair K70 for more than a few minutes.

As for how long they will last, there are several things to consider:


How well you treat it, if you're careful to make sure you don't spill stuff on it a lot or drop/ hit it, then it should last a long time, some longer than others depending on how well put together it is.
How much you type and what key is being pressed, the spacebar for example will get used a lot more than the letter Z.
Features of the board, if a board has LEDs, then that's another 100+ things that have the potential to go wrong.

To sum it up though, with the boards you're picking from, if you treat it well, I could easily see 5 years. The good thing about mechanical keyboards though is the modularity of the switches, if you're familiar with soldering, it's easy enough to fix a broken switch yourself.


----------



## autumnsunset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daneiyelr*
> 
> Good day guys. I'm a new member here and I've already decided to buy a mechanical keyboard because I have my own rig now and I have the extra cash for it.
> I've already read a lot of reviews and feedbacks on some mechanical keyboards in the market and the different switches.
> 
> I would surely buy one with a Cherry MX switch. I don't like the kailh and razer mechanical switches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I currently looking to get a keyboard with Cherry MX blues or browns (still trying to decide) and I would also like a backlit one.
> 
> So what do you guys think between the Corsair K70 , CM Storm Trigger , Ducky Shine3 ? I would buy one before January
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More power to you guys
> 
> and one more thing up to how many years do you think a good mechanical keyboard with cherry mx switches will last ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Things I also consider
> - Full sized keyboard
> - Blue / Red / Green just one backlight color RGB keyboards are still kinda expensive for me(Still a student here in the Philippines)
> - Solid build quality


Did you give a look at Ducky Legend and Ducky Shine 4?
Ducky high-end models are made in Taiwan, this usually suggests a bit more of quality than China-made models, though of course an OEM will build it as they are requested, be it in China or Taiwan.

The Corsair's got very, very good quality too, and gorgeous looks, plus a super lushious wrist rest.. braided USB cable. Perhaps if you hit a wall with both, the K70 will get a little more damage, that's all, and I said: maybe.


----------



## Kiriel 7

Does anyone recognize the mechanical keyboard featured in this video?

Furthermore, recognize the clicking sound?







I want to use the same keyboard as him, since he's basically the best player in the world. For example in that video, he scored 97.99% which is the highest score http://www.dream-pro.info/~lavalse/LR2IR/search.cgi?mode=ranking&bmsid=367

Thx


----------



## Kiriel 7

Anyone interested in this game, it's free.

Search for this "LR2専用発狂BMS難易度表 ★1～★24全曲パッケージ.rar" to download the songs

Download the game here http://www.lr2.sakura.ne.jp/LR2_100201.zip


----------



## Jixr

sounds like mx reds to me, doesn't seem like anything that fancy. Also, its just a keyboard, it won't make you a better gamer.


----------



## Kiriel 7

Is it the WASD CODE perhaps? Too difficult to see it clearly I suppose






Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jixr*
> 
> sounds like mx reds to me, doesn't seem like anything that fancy. Also, its just a keyboard, it won't make you a better gamer.


I think it does make you a better gamer actually in some specific cases, a _tiny_ bit, just a tiny improvement

For example
Quote:


> MX Black - Actuation/ release points at the same point in the travel, benefits double-tapping
> 
> MX Blue - Release point lies above the actuation point, can be very detrimental to double-tapping
> 
> MX Black - Actuation Force: 60g (40g-80g overall)
> 
> MX Blue - Actuation Force: 50cN (60cN Peak Force)


It also improves your tactile / audio pleasure

- Edit -

In that game, apparently the higher the cN force the better.

- Edit -

You're right it doesn't look fancy.

- Edit -

He must be using that keyboard for a reason, I'm pretty sure a keyboard can make you a slightly better gamer, even if it's only a 1% improvement in all of your scores, or something like that.


----------



## Paradigm84

Unless they switched from a switch with high degree of hysteresis to a switch with a low degree of hysteresis, or from a board with poor KRO to NKRO then I imagine the placebo effect would have more of an effect on their gameplay than the keyboard itself.


----------



## Kiriel 7

Come on, you can double-tap faster with

1) Actuation / release points at the same point in the travel

2) Higher cN force (since the key returns to it's resting position faster)

You'll also improve your finger strength pretty fast, if the keys are heavy like hell.

Well, that's my take on it, but I don't have evidence.


----------



## autumnsunset

@Kiriel7

congratulations for that profile pic. If that is you, I definitely propose you marriage









It's very high-skilled gamers who can notice performance differences from mouse to mouse and keyboard to keyboard mostly.
Like car drivers. Give a car to a race driver and they'll feel every difference in the setup. Normal drivers don't.

However, anyone will benefit from using red/black/brown switches, it's obvious. Blue/green switches are the worse for gaming, worse than a scissor keys keyboard I believe.


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kiriel 7*
> 
> Come on, you can double-tap faster with
> 
> 1) Actuation / release points at the same point in the travel
> 
> 2) Higher cN force (since the key returns to it's resting position faster)
> 
> You'll also improve your finger strength pretty fast, if the keys are heavy like hell.
> 
> Well, that's my take on it, but I don't have evidence.


There's a difference between theoretical improvements and tangible improvements in gameplay, it would be hard to quantify such a change and say with certainty that a slightly heavier switch is the sole reason for your improvement.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kiriel 7*
> 
> Anyone interested in this game, it's free.
> 
> Search for this "LR2専用発狂BMS難易度表 ★1～★24全曲パッケージ.rar" to download the songs
> 
> Download the game here http://www.lr2.sakura.ne.jp/LR2_100201.zip


I was able to download the game and found this helpful site that helps you with the setup process!

http://ecilasworld.blogspot.com/2014/07/lr2-guide-for-starters.html

The weird part is I couldn't figure out at first if you could change the language to English. By sheer luck, I clicked on a language (it's a bit greyed out / faded) header just on top of the Main and other tabs and that gave me the language change needed!


----------



## Kiriel 7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *autumnsunset*
> 
> @Kiriel7
> congratulations for that profile pic. If that is you, I definitely propose you marriage


Hehe

Quote:


> It's very high-skilled gamers who can notice performance differences from mouse to mouse and keyboard to keyboard mostly.
> Like car drivers. Give a car to a race driver and they'll feel every difference in the setup. Normal drivers don't.


Right. However even normal players will get more finger strength from the heavier keys, at least if you're playing 1 to 2 hours per day.

Quote:


> However, anyone will benefit from using red/black/brown switches, it's obvious. Blue/green switches are the worse for gaming, worse than a scissor keys keyboard I believe.


MX blue / MX green are the worst for gaming? That's news to me. I'm thinking about MX black, since it's the heaviest, but it's not tactile so I'm not sure yet.

The sound is important as well. MX blue sounds very nice to me, but it might be loud, I don't want anyone outside my window hearing me type.


----------



## Kiriel 7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> I was able to download the game and found this helpful site that helps you with the setup process!
> 
> http://ecilasworld.blogspot.com/2014/07/lr2-guide-for-starters.html
> 
> The weird part is I couldn't figure out at first if you could change the language to English. By sheer luck, I clicked on a language (it's a bit greyed out / faded) header just on top of the Main and other tabs and that gave me the language change needed!


I haven't seen that guide before, thanks.

Here is another one https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gXnexg7qd7RcTDrHEOOTyS4Ioj5ZLsaU1qJacWIqRsU/edit

Yes, you can select English here



If you're a new player and completely new to music games, you'll need to find the really, really easy songs to start with. You can also change to 5-key mode.

It's just like typing though, if you can learn to type fast, you can learn to play this game fast, there is hardly any difference.

I found this cool video comparing the sound of MX Brown on the right side and something else on the left side


----------



## Kiriel 7

Found this video today. Cherry claims this keyboard called "Cherry MX Board 6.0" uses a new technology which takes samples every 0.4 milliseconds, then sends the information in 0.8 milliseconds

They claim, an input latency of around 1 millisecond, via USB 2.0

They also claim that your average keyboard has an input latency of around 20 milliseconds, with some as high as 45 milliseconds? What? 20 - 45 milliseconds latency would totally kill any gaming accuracy!!

I don't really understand if they're talking about _inside_ of the keyboard, or something else. I mean, if this keyboard has a "0.4ms refresh rate", then the USB polls it at the normal speed, there will still be that USB polling latency. Unless it comes with a driver, which increases the polling rate to 1000 Hz, or something like that






- Edit -

Nevermind found the thread here http://www.overclock.net/t/1535268/various-cherry-shows-off-new-mx-board-6-0-utilizing-realkey-technology-ces-2015

Still rather alarming though, if that 20 - 45 millisecond statistic is true

- Edit -

This seems like marketing, honestly. I suspect they measured a few $5 keyboards to find the 20 millisecond latency. At least I hope so.


----------



## Kiriel 7

I moved the LR2 discussion to this thread in case anyone is interested in continuing it there http://www.overclock.net/t/1538862/lunatic-rave-2-lr2-bms-music-game-free-for-windows-all-you-need-is-a-mechanical-keyboard


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jixr*
> 
> sounds like mx reds to me, doesn't seem like anything that fancy. Also, its just a keyboard, it won't make you a better gamer.


You LIE. Yes it wll.


----------



## Kiriel 7




----------



## andyadams

I use mechanical keyboard in my work and my work is to print barcode like qrcode in rdlc reports.

My first-gen Model M (manufactured 1984, no capslock/numlock/scroll lock lights) is amazing. If you guys have never tried a mechanical keyboard you should at least check them out. After using my Model M, membrane keyboards feel really mushy. The only other decent keyboards are keyboards on thinkpads

I've heard good things about das keyboard too, if you want newfangled things like usb and windows keys. But das keyboard isn't built around a steel frame so you can't use it to defend yourself during the zombie apocalypse like you can with the model M.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *autumnsunset*
> 
> @Kiriel7
> 
> congratulations for that profile pic. If that is you, I definitely propose you marriage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's very high-skilled gamers who can notice performance differences from mouse to mouse and keyboard to keyboard mostly.
> Like car drivers. Give a car to a race driver and they'll feel every difference in the setup. Normal drivers don't.
> 
> However, anyone will benefit from using red/black/brown switches, it's obvious. Blue/green switches are the worse for gaming, worse than a scissor keys keyboard I believe.


I kept my mouth shut but I think I need to chime in here.
THAT KEYBOARD is NOT going to make you a pro gamer by ANY sense of the mind. At all. the only way a keyboard will make you as good as him is if you were already as good as him BEFORE switching keyboards, and only then do you look for the hardware that can push you beyond the old limits.

If he was using cherry MX Reds, there's NO difference between you using his keyboard and using a Corsair K70 with MX reds, or even a Ducky Shine 3/4 with MX Reds. A MX RED is a MX RED. Doesn't matter WHO makes it. The ONLY thing that matters is N-Key rollover, so you can press multiple keys at once without frozen/ghost inputs (meaning: no laptop keyboards unless it's some 6+key RO steelseries (which might require a firmware bios update) or one of those new Mechs on a MSI.

People had Deathadders (arguably the best sensor until the 3310 and Logitech's 1 year old 3366 for years, and until very recently, Some Counter strike pro players were STILL using Intellimice 1.1a/3.0's, although the low malfunction speed and the increasing difficulty in overclocking USB polling rates has made these long obsolete (unless you are still using 1024x768 and CRT's).

So, seriously, go grab a ducky shine with Cherry MX Reds, and you too, can play like a pro.

(a keyboard will NOT make you a pro, btw. Yes certain keys are best suited for different games. For Moba/APM based games (rhythm/dance, starcraft, League of losers, etc), you want cherry MX reds, although a Brown is not going to impede your SC2 APM or league mechanics one bit. Linear Blacks can also work and keep your APM up if you find reds too light for you.
Don't even think about MX linear greys, though. Some have 80g, but some have been known to have 105g (those might be the ultra rare tactile clicky greys).

MX blues and greens are much more pleasant to type and FPS game on, but not ideal for max APM (you definitely don't want greens or tactile greys for this).


----------



## jprovido

I just switched from a Ducky Cherry MX Brown Keyboard to a Razer Blackwidow Tournament Edition 2014 (10 keyless) I wanted to try a 10 keyless keyboard.. this might piss of a lot of people but I actually like it







the razer switches felt great and I like how they feel. gave my ducky to my brother he was so happy


----------



## Kokin

Can't we all agree that everyone has a personal preference for their switch type?

I've used MX Browns for 2 years before switching to MX Greens, but I have been able to type quicker and more accurately due to the heavier key and audible click. I mostly play CS:GO (FPS) and League of Legends (MOBA), but I don't think there was any big difference between MX Browns and MX Greens. I don't like MX Reds for both typing and gaming, but I can see its usefulness in rhythm or RTS games where fast fingers and double tapping is necessary, genres that I don't delve much into.

@jprovido Congrats on your purchase! As long as you're happy, it doesn't really matter what a random stranger on the internet says or thinks.


----------



## jprovido

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kokin*
> 
> Can't we all agree that everyone has a personal preference for their switch type?
> 
> I've used MX Browns for 2 years before switching to MX Greens, but I have been able to type quicker and more accurately due to the heavier key and audible click. I mostly play CS:GO (FPS) and League of Legends (MOBA), but I don't think there was any big difference between MX Browns and MX Greens. I don't like MX Reds for both typing and gaming, but I can see its usefulness in rhythm or RTS games where fast fingers and double tapping is necessary, genres that I don't delve much into.
> 
> *@jprovido Congrats on your purchase! As long as you're happy, it doesn't really matter what a random stranger on the internet says or thinks.*


agree. I actually like it A LOT. it feels nice and the actuation point feels a bit shorter I dunno if that's by design. these razer china green switches are not bad at all


----------



## Falkentyne

I felt I needed to add something here (not sure if I should have made a new thread though)
But.....

There has been a LONG standing rumor that cherry MX blue and green switches have the actuation point when pressing down DIFFERENT from the release point when pressing up..
According to this guide:

"Actuation Point is the point at which the contact mechanism registers a key press."
http://www.daskeyboard.com/blog/mechanical-keyboard-guide/

The actuation point is NOT the same as the tactile bump point, and in MOST keyboards, the actuation point occurs BELOW the tactile bump (click), not on top of it!
The bump does not correspond to where the switch registers a keypress! Usually the bump is right above the actuation point, and that goes for both press and release.

I did some tests with MX greens and blues, and the distance/point at which the switch registers a key press or releases the press is the EXACT SAME on both keys!
You can test it here.
http://www.microsoft.com/appliedsciences/AntiGhostingExplained.mspx

There is absolutely NO difference in where the switch actuates or releases the key!
The difference is where the BUMP itself is activated (and clicks for clicky switches) and is released!
On MX browns, this point is at the same position on the switch going from activation to release.
On blues and greens, the activation is lower than the release of the switch.

This does NOT affect the actuation!
So there is no problem double tapping on blues and green MX switches!
The only problem is if you use muscle memory and try to time the bump itself.
For people who bottom out, no issues.


----------



## ChronoBodi

there's a Tactile Grey keyboard here: http://www.banggood.com/Cherry-MX-Tactile-Grey-KBTalking-ONE-Backlit-Mechanical-Keyboard-p-946503.html

I mean i have two Clears already: The CODE and the Keycool 108, but i want to try a tougher switch


----------



## RentoN

Hi,

so I have a problem and I've been told that if anyone can help me it's probably one of you guys in this thread here smile.gif
Here's the link to the thread I made earlier that describes my problem:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1550074/what-ps-2-adapter-do-i-need-to-get-my-usb-keyboard-to-work-with-it


----------



## frag85

Anyone have some daily experience with Matias Click? According to deskauthority they are replacement for simplified white Alps (SKBM White, ***ka white alps, Fuhua white alps), and from the specs the Matias click is slightly lighter in force required to depress, but I don't recall typing on any of these in recent history. I have used and loved Cherry Blue switches and was planning on a 60% with those for everyday typing, but I can across the KBP V60 with Matias Clicks.

I'm wondering if I would like Matias Click switches. With Cherry blues I like the click, I find I can type more consistently with fewer errors and at higher rates with the audible click compared to a tactile switch like Cherry browns, or a linear switch like Cherry Reds or Blacks. I am having trouble finding quality comparison videos of Matias Clicks or simplified white alps. While there is comparison on Matias' website, I don't find the samples of Cherry brown and blues to sound like my experience with them so it is hard to draw a comparison on the sound.

I know the drawbacks is lack of replacement keycaps and back-lighting, but that does not matter for this new keyboard.


----------



## Akusho

Hello!
I want to keep a towel over my keyboard while I'm at uni or sleeping for less dust buildup. Is it safe? I read a few comments about possible static discharge that can harm the keyboard?


----------



## frag85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Akusho*
> 
> Hello!
> I want to keep a towel over my keyboard while I'm at uni or sleeping for less dust buildup. Is it safe? I read a few comments about possible static discharge that can harm the keyboard?


Never heard of that. I've been toweling or literally decades, recently i've been using the foam wrapper my KB came in.


----------



## forcemblem

Just want to note, I've been hearing about green switches? Any info on that?


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *forcemblem*
> 
> Just want to note, I've been hearing about green switches? Any info on that?


If you mean Cherry MX Greens, they are similar to Cherry MX Blues, except with a higher actuation force of ~80g compared to the MX Blues ~50g.


----------



## frag85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *forcemblem*
> 
> Just want to note, I've been hearing about green switches? Any info on that?


Table of info on CherryMX Switches: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX#Table_of_all_known_variants

EDIT: My KBP V60 with Matias Click switchs (white alps) came in today. It feels pretty nice.
It sounds more solid, but hollow compared to the CherryMX Blue's plasticy/snappy click from a CMStorm board.
So far I can type about the same as with blues, and more quickly and consistently than CherryMX Reds. Being a 60% keyboard I'll have to get used to the new function shortcuts.


----------



## aayman_farzand

I have a question which I didn't think warranted it's own thread.

Yesterday I received my Quickfire Stealth, and I ******* love this thing. However I miss the media key functionality from the QuickFire Pro where I hit the FN key once and it would stick till it was pressed again.

So my question is, how can I inverse the FN key function so that when I press F12 it'll increase volume, and when I press FN + F12, it'll be regular F12?

I tried googling and the same question was asked for laptops and it was fixed by a setting change in the BIOS. I looked through my BIOS and it has no such option. MSI Z68 GD65 G3.


----------



## Jixr

unfortunatly not with that keyboard, the FN key is hard wired to the controller on the keyboard.

But what you could do, its make a very simple autohotkey code to make f12 your volume increase by default. ( honestly, how often do you use f12 for anything other than media? )

I actually use a very similar set up myself, f8= play/pause f9 next f10 mute f11 vol down f12 vol up


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jixr*
> 
> But what you could do, its make a very simple autohotkey code to make f12 your volume increase by default. ( honestly, how often do you use f12 for anything other than media? )


I know they aren't used often but I use it for other stuff. Steam screenshots, CSGO quit via F10 etc. I use them often and would prefer not to change them. Maybe I can make two profiles and use the FN key to switch between normal and the assigned media keys so that I only have to press it once and not worry about it till I need to change back.


----------



## Jixr

wouldn't work, the FN would not bee seen as a key by windows, its strictly a 'switch' on the keyboard.


----------



## frag85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jixr*
> 
> unfortunatly not with that keyboard, the FN key is hard wired to the controller on the keyboard.
> 
> But what you could do, its make a very simple autohotkey code to make f12 your volume increase by default. ( honestly, how often do you use f12 for anything other than media? )
> 
> I actually use a very similar set up myself, f8= play/pause f9 next f10 mute f11 vol down f12 vol up


This is going to be the best bet. You can also use AHK to only use shortcuts when a certain keypress combo toggles the shortcuts.


----------



## rafi66

I have two questions for you guys.
I was thinking about getting a new keyboard ~100$ and I narrowed it down to these three. Which should I go with?
http://gaming.coolermaster.com/en/products/keyboards/quickfireultimate/
http://gaming.coolermaster.com/en/products/keyboards/quickfirext/
http://ozonegaming.com/product/strike-battle/

And if we compare those three to Ducky Shine 3? It's worth to pay almost 2x more (in my country) to get Ducky? Is the quality between those two models really significant? The functionality is almost the same? Will Ducky last for few more years?


----------



## X-Nine

There's a hot key program.. Forget what it's called, but you should be able to set the FN key as a modifier with that application and make it stick. It's a free program. Quick Key maybe it's called? Completely forget...


----------



## rafi66

What do you guys think about swiches? Which are best for gaming? Isn't brown "perceptible jump" too frustrating?


----------



## Jixr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XNine*
> 
> There's a hot key program.. Forget what it's called, but you should be able to set the FN key as a modifier with that application and make it stick. It's a free program. Quick Key maybe it's called? Completely forget...


no, it won't work, the FN key is wired to the keyboards controller. most keyboards fn keys are not read by the OS


----------



## Shardnax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rafi66*
> 
> What do you guys think about switches? Which are best for gaming? Isn't brown "perceptible jump" too frustrating?


It's preference, the 'best' switch type is the one you enjoy for whatever you use the keyboard has for you. I've had no problem playing dozens of games with mx blues and love typing on them, other people enjoy reds/blacks/browns/clears/topre/etc. The best thing to do would be to try out different switch types at a store or, if you can't do that, get a switch tester and see which switch type you like.


----------



## X-Nine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jixr*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *XNine*
> 
> There's a hot key program.. Forget what it's called, but you should be able to set the FN key as a modifier with that application and make it stick. It's a free program. Quick Key maybe it's called? Completely forget...
> 
> 
> 
> no, it won't work, the FN key is wired to the keyboards controller. most keyboards fn keys are not read by the OS
Click to expand...

I'm fairly certain it will work as it worked with my Max Keyboard.
http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/keytweak.html


----------



## Jixr

Just because it worked on yours does not mean it works on all.

I 100% guarantee you can not remap the FN key on a QFR. Again, most keyboards FN keys are wired to the keyboards controller, which outputs the alt key, its not read by the OS.

Programmable keyboards and keyboards with their own drivers probably can be done, but plug and play keyboards for the most part are not able to be remapped.


----------



## Alastair

Hello there. I just acquired a Roccat Ryos MK Glow with Mx Blacks. I just took it out the box and I feel that the enter key does not spring back fully. Any idea how to rectify it. My keyboard does not come with a key cap puller. How can I make a key cap puller?

Edit: It feels like enter is catching on something about halfway through its travel.


----------



## bahn

I'm still thinking about getting a mech kb. I dont game as much anymore. I use my pc mostly for websurfing and photoshop. Is it worth getting a mech kb?


----------



## Paradigm84

I personally recommend mechanical keyboards over their rubber dome counterparts, but it all depends on how much you value the typing experience.


----------



## Jixr

yeah, a honda civic and a Bently are both cars that will get you from A to B, but one is much nicer to ride in than the other, but is the price difference for that niceness worth it? that depends on your personal finances and perceived value and utility.


----------



## OkanG

Hey









I looked around a lot, but couldn't find the layout for the keycaps on my CM Storm QuickFire TK Keyboard Brown. Do any of you guys have custom keycaps for this keyboard?


----------



## Dry Bonez

i didnt know theres diffeent kinds of keyboards...i use a logitech illuminated keyboard ultra slim and doesnt make noise when typing. Are these keyboards such as CM and corsair make noise while typing? please elaborate.


----------



## Alastair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dry Bonez*
> 
> i didnt know theres diffeent kinds of keyboards...i use a logitech illuminated keyboard ultra slim and doesnt make noise when typing. Are these keyboards such as CM and corsair make noise while typing? please elaborate.


Ultra slim. Then it's a rubber dome. I dunno how old you are. But if you remember those big clunky keyboards from the 80's? well those are mechanical. And retro is cool! And mechanical is making a comeback. Why? Well mechanical switches are longer lasting. They have a quicker response time. You don't have to hold them all the way down in order to activate them. Which means you don't fatigue as much. (unless you use MX Blacks like I do, which turn every gaming session into a workout for your fingers.) You can customise them to your preference. You can use different switch types. Some of the popular ones are the Cherry MX line. You get Black, Brown, Blue and Reds. These four are the most popular but there are many others as well. If you are most used to a normal rubber dome keyboard then Brown's or Reds are the keys that I would say feel the most similar. Brown's have a small tactile bump which tell you when you hit the activation point. Blacks and reds are linear switches with no tactile bumps or noises. Blacks are just stiffer switches. Blues have a tactile bump and they also make a clickty clackity noise.

You also get other switches from other brands. You get the buckling spring and Alpine switches. But I haven't seen much of them compared to the Cherry MX line.

Check out the first post of this club for a full description about the keys.

But generally brands have their lower end keyboards using rubber dome and their higher end keyboards using mechanical switches.


----------



## frag85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OkanG*
> 
> Hey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I looked around a lot, but couldn't find the layout for the keycaps on my CM Storm QuickFire TK Keyboard Brown. Do any of you guys have custom keycaps for this keyboard?


Are you talking about the size of the keys?

WASDKeyboards has a compatibility list that shows the layout and keysizes. I'm not 100% sure about the CMStorm *TK*, but the other CMStorm boards follow the Costar OEM keysizes like what you see on Filco, WASD, CMStorm and Thermaltake Meka.

You should be able to look at the keys and see how they compare in size with the chart on WASD.


----------



## OkanG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frag85*
> 
> Are you talking about the size of the keys?
> 
> WASDKeyboards has a compatibility list that shows the layout and keysizes. I'm not 100% sure about the CMStorm *TK*, but the other CMStorm boards follow the Costar OEM keysizes like what you see on Filco, WASD, CMStorm and Thermaltake Meka.
> 
> You should be able to look at the keys and see how they compare in size with the chart on WASD.


Yes, I was referring to the sizes and angles of the keycaps. I've looked at that exact page and I immideately realized that the QuickFire Rapid picture has a different layout around the Enter, Shift and Control buttons alongside with the numpad/arrow buttons, so it's unfortunately not really useful. But I was looking for a picture like that one, showing the layout so I can order individual keycaps. Unfortunately, I've had no luck


----------



## Paradigm84

Yeah, unfortunately the Cooler Master Storm TK has a fairly strange layout, with a mix of 1x, 1.25x and 1.5x keys, as well as a 6.5x spacebar. This is going to make finding aftermarket keycaps fairly challenging as you'd need to find a set that includes both the normal 1.25x modifiers as well as the 1x and 1.5x modifiers found in a Tsangan set. You'd also need to find the non-standard spacebar.


----------



## OkanG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Yeah, unfortunately the Cooler Master Storm TK has a fairly strange layout, with a mix of 1x, 1.25x and 1.5x keys, as well as a 6.5x spacebar. This is going to make finding aftermarket keycaps fairly challenging as you'd need to find a set that includes both the normal 1.25x modifiers as well as the 1x and 1.5x modifiers found in a Tsangan set. You'd also need to find the non-standard spacebar.


My plan wasn't to replace all keys though. I haven't figured it out yet, but something along the line of all F keys along with the WASD keys or something. Or just a cheesy Escape key. I really haven't figured it out yet, but I'm certain it won't be all keys. If I can't find a precise layout like those on wasd's website, I'll just use this as is and mod my next keyboard (If this beast ever breaks, which it really doesn't look like it will)


----------



## bahn

I finally decided to get one. My 1st choice is the CM Storm Quickfire TK. Went to several stores, they were all out of stock









Now my choices are

Quickfire Ultimate red switch around $100
Ducky Zero Zone (same price as the Ultimate)
Quickfire Rapid-I on sale at $90

Which do you think is more Bang for the Buck?


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bahn*
> 
> I finally decided to get one. My 1st choice is the CM Storm Quickfire TK. Went to several stores, they were all out of stock
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now my choices are
> 
> Quickfire Ultimate red switch around $100
> Ducky Zero Zone (same price as the Ultimate)
> Quickfire Rapid-I on sale at $90
> 
> Which do you think is more Bang for the Buck?


The Rapid-I or Ducky Zero should be the best ones, but between the two I'm not sure which is best.


----------



## bahn

I called the store selling the Rapid I. Only the Blue switch is on sale. The Brown switch is at full price around $125
Dont know which switches are available on the Ducky. Still waiting for a text from the store


----------



## ErrorFile

I bought the QuickFire TK Stealth with MX Browns to replace my broken QPAD MK-50. Highly recommended, what a great layout and the partial backlighting is all I need, though brightness controls would be nice.


----------



## frag85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OkanG*
> 
> Yes, I was referring to the sizes and angles of the keycaps. I've looked at that exact page and I immideately realized that the QuickFire Rapid picture has a different layout around the Enter, Shift and Control buttons alongside with the numpad/arrow buttons, so it's unfortunately not really useful. But I was looking for a picture like that one, showing the layout so I can order individual keycaps. Unfortunately, I've had no luck


Individual keycaps in various standard sizes can be found with whatever you want on them, but not easily. Are the TK's keys standard sizes? Like 1,1.25,1.5 ect...?

The only place off the top of my head (because I've dealt with them a couple times now) is WASDKeyboards. ABS+laser etched, they did not have custom keys in backlight compatabile though last I looked there. It would be expensive to order a few caps in the sizes your need with whatever that key is in it, so Compile a list and Send them an email with the sizes and what your want on them,and see if they will cut your a deal.


----------



## crashnburn_in

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bahn*
> 
> I called the store selling the Rapid I. Only the Blue switch is on sale. The Brown switch is at full price around $125
> Dont know which switches are available on the Ducky. Still waiting for a text from the store


Which store?


----------



## bahn

For the Rapid I PCHub
For the Ducky Ayoscomputers


----------



## Qwertol

I like Mechanical Keyboards,
Currently I have the Razer Blackwidow Chroma.


----------



## PU skunk

So if someone just wants an mx kb without 1000hz polling bogging down the computer, distracting colored backlights, programmable macros, or other "added value" adding up to $200... would Cherry's basic kb do? ($89 w/mx reds)

http://cherrycorp.com/product/mx-3-0-keyboard-g80-3850/

For an office keyboard, do all mx switches have 5ms debouncing? thanks


----------



## M0rb1d

Is the "Super Lube Silicone Lubricating Grease with PTFE" from WASD keyboards usable for lubing the friction points and springs of switches?


----------



## thesebastian

Hi

*I have some basic questions about O-Rings installation*

( I just ordered some WASD Blue O-Rings to use in my Steelseries 7G Cherry MX Black keyboard, I still don't have them ).

The "Space" key has 3 places where you could install the O-Rings. But the middle one is the one that impact the spring.

http://i.imgur.com/9LaEBuC.jpg

*1) Should I need to put 1 O-Ring in the space key? Or 3.*[/COLOR]

The same question for the "Enter" key, but this one has another "big" tube here.

http://i.imgur.com/uIWrws6.jpg

*2) That pipe needs also an O-Ring?*

P.S.: The guide of the OP is incredibly epic. Tremendous work.


----------



## boredgunner

I'd just put the o-ring on the actual switch (or rather on the keycap only where it attaches to the switch). The Cherry stabilizers are already near silent, and already feel dampened.


----------



## rattleheadmegadeth

Hello im buying a new full sized mx brown switch keyboard. which out of there two are higher in quality? i can get either one for 750-800 euros

CM Storm QuickFire XT vs ZOWIE Celeritas... thanks.


----------



## boredgunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rattleheadmegadeth*
> 
> Hello im buying a new full sized mx brown switch keyboard. which out of there two are higher in quality? i can get either one for 750-800 euros
> 
> CM Storm QuickFire XT vs ZOWIE Celeritas... thanks.


I've never heard of the ZOWIE Celeritas while the QuickFire XT is a high quality Costar-built keyboard which I recommend. Its keycaps are only average though (for a mechanical keyboard at least), you may want to replace them in the future.


----------



## PatrikStar24

Hello, I've been skeptical of mechanical keyboards ever since I first heard of them (2013ish), mainly due to some keyboards having that CLACKCLACKCLACK sound. After going through several membrane keyboards*, I feel I'm ready to make the jump. Using the first page of this thread for research, it comes down to a Red MX and a Brown MX version of this keyboard, both linked here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EJ8CHIM/?tag=pcpapi-20

My main tasks are gaming (wide variety of genres, mainly FPS, RTS, and the occasional MOBA) and typing (for college). I want it to be responsive, but quiet(ish).

*Ironically, the wireless Dell keyboard that came with my XPS 8300 still works without problem after almost 5 years, despite its pitiful range (stops responding at around 12ish feet, basically the distance from the corner it's in to the door)


----------



## rexbinary

I think Browns are the way to go for you. They are the sweet spot between Reds for gaming and Blues for typing. I don't find the Browns to be that loud, but any mechanical keyboard might sound loud to you coming off a membrane keyboard. Worst case if you find the Browns too loud you can always install o-rings.

That is all generally speaking. There are people that prefer to game with Blues and probably people that like to type with Reds so in the end it's going to come down to your personal preferences. I still think Browns is a good place for you to start.


----------



## ignsvn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PatrikStar24*
> 
> Hello, I've been skeptical of mechanical keyboards ever since I first heard of them (2013ish), mainly due to some keyboards having that CLACKCLACKCLACK sound. After going through several membrane keyboards*, I feel I'm ready to make the jump. Using the first page of this thread for research, it comes down to a Red MX and a Brown MX version of this keyboard, both linked here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EJ8CHIM/?tag=pcpapi-20
> 
> My main tasks are gaming (wide variety of genres, mainly FPS, RTS, and the occasional MOBA) and typing (for college). I want it to be responsive, but quiet(ish).
> 
> *Ironically, the wireless Dell keyboard that came with my XPS 8300 still works without problem after almost 5 years, despite its pitiful range (stops responding at around 12ish feet, basically the distance from the corner it's in to the door)


IMHO, mechanical keyboard would be -at least- as loud as your membrane keyboard (Not sure with the latest Cherry silent switches).

Between red and brown, I think the quiet one would be the red keys + practice not to bottom out your keys during typing.


----------



## Kitarist

I'm not sure why some people say typing on MX Cherry Red is hard and you make lots of typos. Myself i can now type much much faster and it feels great







Now i'm curious how the Cherry MX Blue feel and others


----------



## thesebastian

I'm trying to find a good 87 keys keyboard (the "regular size" without the numpad, with the arrows separated etc) to use at the office. (I'm using a Dell Latitude E5550 and that included keyboard is perfect in low noise).

But unfortunately, all 87 keys keyboards are Mechanical! (I'd prefer a Scissor keyboard since I type really strong and I don't want to disturb other people).

Anyway...Do you know a good keyboard really silent for the office? (Or any special O-Ring to use with Cherry MX keyboard?
(*Maybe I just need an special O-Ring really spongy*, if exists)

At home I'm using one Steelseries 7G (Cherry MX Black) with WASD's O-Rings (Blue ones) and with O-Rings is still really noisy compared to a Scissor keyboard. [So MX Black + Blue WASD O-Rings combo is not an option]

Please consider that I really bottom out the keys when I type.

Thanks!


----------



## resher

Hello guys what do u think about the K70 and Trigger Z both browns?
thanks


----------



## frag85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kitarist*
> 
> I'm not sure why some people say typing on MX Cherry Red is hard and you make lots of typos. Myself i can now type much much faster and it feels great
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now i'm curious how the Cherry MX Blue feel and others


Keyboard are extremely personal and subjective.
Since I own and have used both extensively and fall into that category (reds more prone to types), this is my train of thought:

Not only do you get an audible response, but you have a physical tactile response with blues. I can type faster and make far fewer errors on a blues than reds because of that. I can type as fast with reds if I want, but I am more prone to typos. It is as if I trained my brain to need a click or at least some resistance when the key activates. (I am also a horrible touch screen typist which I attribute to absolutely no physical feel.) Blues you can lighten up and just touch type and not bottom out. When I type on reds after using blues for a while, I tend to miss keys, in my brain i put my finger through the motion, but I did not get audible or tactile feedback, and some times I know i missed the key without even looking at what I just typed. Linear switches like reds you are pretty much required to bottom them out to make sure they activate. For me It is the same thing that has tripped me up with playing a musical instrument, even on the saxophone which I have >10k hours with.

For typing, I love clicky blues. For [FPS] gaming I love linear reds.


----------



## pnoozi

I think it's that MX Reds (in WASD games, at least) evoke the fluidity of an analog stick on a controller.


----------



## Themisseble

Hi,
I got new keyboard from SS. MY mouse stopped working Sensei and SS gave me 140€ coupon. So I chose Diablo III mouse, SS mouse pad and SS 6GV2 keyboard.

Can I customize my keys?


----------



## Jixr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Themisseble*
> 
> Can I customize my keys?


Yup, unless yours has the giant enter key, you won't be able to find a replacement for that.


----------



## wes1099

Does anyone know of any pbt keycap sets that come with a short right shift? I haven't been able to find any.


----------



## Jixr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Does anyone know of any pbt keycap sets that come with a short right shift? I haven't been able to find any.


not commercially available, which sucks because i'd like a few sets as well.

Basically GB's or buying a RGB mod kit.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jixr*
> 
> not commercially available, which sucks because i'd like a few sets as well.
> 
> Basically GB's or buying a RGB mod kit.












I guess I will be stuck with using a 1x where right shift goes. I guess I will search for an RGB mod kit with a 1.75x.


----------



## Jixr

http://www.originativeco.com/collections/add-on-kits

$50 though


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jixr*
> 
> http://www.originativeco.com/collections/add-on-kits
> 
> $50 though


Yeah I think I am going to have to wait until any of these come back on massdrop.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/gmk-rgbyk-modifiers-pack-with-black-legends

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/gmk-modifier-keys


----------



## Georgey123

Is there any way at all to get a Vortex KBT Race II? They feels like i'm digging for gold to find one.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Georgey123*
> 
> Is there any way at all to get a Vortex KBT Race II? They feels like i'm digging for gold to find one.


Yes, PM me


----------



## sk2play

Anybody know or can take an educated guess on the type of switches are on the VicTsing Mechanical Gamer Keyboard as just posted in the Online Deal section.


----------



## Jixr

deffinatley not cherry, so probably kahil, gateron, etc.


----------



## DOS Chuck

I'm getting tired of cleaning my Rosewill 9000V2 with 99.99% alcohol every other week. My GF thinks I'm getting drunk WAY too often. I need a suggestion for a GOOD mechanical GAMING keyboard for under $100.

I don't care about back lighting. I just want it to work every time.


----------



## Jixr

quickfire rapid. done and done.


----------



## DOS Chuck

OK. My Rosewills ( I have two, different versions of the same model) use Cherry MX Reds. Should I stick with the red switches? Blue or brown?


----------



## Jixr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DOS Chuck*
> 
> OK. My Rosewills ( I have two, different versions of the same model) use Cherry MX Reds. Should I stick with the red switches? Blue or brown?


as always, its personal preference.


----------



## CrazyNightOwl

Hello guys, what's your opinion on the Leopold FC900R (full-size) with white PBT keycaps? How durable are they? Is the profile like Cherry, or maybe it is exactly the Cherry profile?

My main concern regarding that board is if the white keycaps are going to start picking up grime over time, I mean, if it really "sinks in" and the keys get a yellowish / brownish tint because of the finger sweat. What do you think?

The reason I'm looking at that exact board is because of the lightly colored caps. Backlighitng makes my eyes litelrally hurt, and non-backlighted dark caps are unreadable in a darker environment, for example, the legends on my current Logitech G710+ are next to unreadable unless I turn on the eye-hurting backlighting. The other reason is the lower profile of the keys on the Leopold, I keep hitting the wrong keys because of the tall buttons on the G710+. That said, maybe I'm in the wrong position relative ot the table and the board itself, or moving my fingers incorrectly.

Another board I really liked visually was the Ducky 9008 G2, with its dual colors, white letter keys and grey modifiers, a very classy and elegant look with a very decently looking print on the caps. But it seems to be out of stock at the moemtn, being an "older" model (how old is it exactly to have already been phased out in favor of those monsters shining with rainbow colors?)

Thank you for the feedback.


----------



## Shardnax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DOS Chuck*
> 
> OK. My Rosewills ( I have two, different versions of the same model) use Cherry MX Reds. Should I stick with the red switches? Blue or brown?


It's preference like Jixr says but, blue or brown might be a better choice if you type often.


----------



## frag85

Does anyone know who makes Vortex Pok3r and WASD Vp3 keyboards?

I was looking at the new 60% offering from WASD, and it has the same manual as the Vortex Pok3r I picked up last year. I've been very happy with my WASD V2 and my Vortex Pok3r, quality seems very good. I know the WASD v2 is a costar board.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frag85*
> 
> Does anyone know who makes Vortex Pok3r and WASD Vp3 keyboards?
> 
> I was looking at the new 60% offering from WASD, and it has the same manual as the Vortex Pok3r I picked up last year. I've been very happy with my WASD V2 and my Vortex Pok3r, quality seems very good. I know the WASD v2 is a costar board.


Both boards are made by Vortex. Check out the description on any of their 60% KBs.

Vortex was created by members of KBC now iKBC who produce their own boards and keycaps under Vortex.

http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/code-keyboard/code-61-key-mechanical-keyboard-mx-brown.html


----------



## frag85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> Both boards are made by Vortex. Check out the description on any of their 60% KBs.
> 
> Vortex was created by members of KBC now iKBC who produce their own boards and keycaps under Vortex.
> 
> http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/code-keyboard/code-61-key-mechanical-keyboard-mx-brown.html


Ah, missed that part of the description.


----------



## DaClownie

So, those of you that have used way too many switches...

I'm currently using MX Browns... I'd like something that's as light if not a little lighter than the browns, but with more tactile feedback than the browns have... What switch would you recommend?

I'll be using them for gaming and typing, and they need to be available on a full size keyboard... I need a number pad back... TKL isn't for me anymore.


----------



## Jixr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaClownie*
> 
> So, those of you that have used way too many switches...
> 
> I'm currently using MX Browns... I'd like something that's as light if not a little lighter than the browns, but with more tactile feedback than the browns have... What switch would you recommend?
> 
> I'll be using them for gaming and typing, and they need to be available on a full size keyboard... I need a number pad back... TKL isn't for me anymore.


nothing in stock form is out there, if you want something like that, you're going to need to some modding.

Ergo Clears is probably what you'd want.

but if you don't mind the noise, blues may be for ya.


----------



## DaClownie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jixr*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DaClownie*
> 
> So, those of you that have used way too many switches...
> 
> I'm currently using MX Browns... I'd like something that's as light if not a little lighter than the browns, but with more tactile feedback than the browns have... What switch would you recommend?
> 
> I'll be using them for gaming and typing, and they need to be available on a full size keyboard... I need a number pad back... TKL isn't for me anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> nothing in stock form is out there, if you want something like that, you're going to need to some modding.
> 
> Ergo Clears is probably what you'd want.
> 
> but if you don't mind the noise, blues may be for ya.
Click to expand...

Ergo clears eh? What's that? Haven't seen a board with that switch


----------



## Jixr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaClownie*
> 
> Ergo clears eh? What's that? Haven't seen a board with that switch


You can't outright buy a keyboard with them.

Take a mx clear ( brown switch with a more noticeable tactile feel and heavier spring ) and swap the spring out with something lighter.


----------



## DaClownie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jixr*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DaClownie*
> 
> Ergo clears eh? What's that? Haven't seen a board with that switch
> 
> 
> 
> You can't outright buy a keyboard with them.
> 
> Take a mx clear ( brown switch with a more noticeable tactile feel and heavier spring ) and swap the spring out with something lighter.
Click to expand...

Golly, that sounds like a lot of work. Sounds like I'll be picking up a new MX brown board then...

What about some of these proprietary switches? I know Logitech is using one, and you see like... Kailh's and these other brands...


----------



## Jixr

yeah, they are all pretty similar to their cherry equivilants, pretty much what you want doesn't exist in the mech world.


----------



## Butthurt Beluga

Hey guys, I'm looking specifically for a Cherry MX Blue/Green keyboard.
I have a Razer Black Widow Ultimate (MX Blues) and I won a Corsair Strafe RGB (MX reds) in a giveaway recently and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that I do not like the linear switches of the reds for gaming or typing after using MX blues for so long.
I saw the recommendations in the OP but if there were any other suggestions for Cherry MX Greens/Blues that'd be awesome
Only requirement really is standard ANSI keyboard layout and obviously the green/blue switches.

also is there a general consensus or perhaps someone with personal experience with WASDKeyboards that can tell me about their build quality/if they're worth the price/etc?

thanks


----------



## Sho Minamimoto

Honestly, I can't understand the hype for mechanical keyboards. It feels like a gamer culture meme to me.

I've used a rubber dome daily.
I've used a Model M daily.
I've used a nice MX Red board daily.
I've tried those cheapo Razer switches.

And I've tried out all of the common switches at the store.

And yet, nothing beats the nonsensical "bumping" mechanism of a rubber dome keyboard. I just don't get the same feeling with a mechanical keyboard-- because it's LITERALLY typing on a bed of springs

I find rubber dome keyboards more comfortable. I type 130+ WPM on Typeracer, even peaking at 150+ sometimes. At my typing level it's not really about how good your keyboard is, it's about how fast you can physically mash the keys. It's actually way easier on a rubber dome since the force curve is more exponential than linear.

Just gotta rant a little. I really hate keyboard shilling.


----------



## 298703

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sho Minamimoto*
> 
> Honestly, I can't understand the hype for mechanical keyboards. It feels like a gamer culture meme to me.
> 
> I've used a rubber dome daily.
> I've used a Model M daily.
> I've used a nice MX Red board daily.
> I've tried those cheapo Razer switches.
> 
> And I've tried out all of the common switches at the store.
> 
> And yet, nothing beats the nonsensical "bumping" mechanism of a rubber dome keyboard. I just don't get the same feeling with a mechanical keyboard-- because it's LITERALLY typing on a bed of springs
> 
> I find rubber dome keyboards more comfortable. I type 130+ WPM on Typeracer, even peaking at 150+ sometimes. At my typing level it's not really about how good your keyboard is, it's about how fast you can physically mash the keys. It's actually way easier on a rubber dome since the force curve is more exponential than linear.
> 
> Just gotta rant a little. I really hate keyboard shilling.


It's not a gamer culture. I know plenty of people who don't game at all but use mechs to work.

HOWEVER, it's preference, just like your preference is dome boards. If that's what you like and you've tried all the switches, then that's what you like. I loath blue switches, I just hate the feel of them but I will never go back to dome switches after using reds. It's not typing on springs, it's like typing on nothing.

But yeah, as I said, if you prefer domes then good on you. No problem with sticking with those.


----------



## Sin100

Well, I finally forked out and went for a Filco Majestouch 2 Tenkeyless with MX brown switches...


----------



## zorbyss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sho Minamimoto*
> 
> Honestly, I can't understand the hype for mechanical keyboards. It feels like a gamer culture meme to me.
> 
> I've used a rubber dome daily.
> I've used a Model M daily.
> I've used a nice MX Red board daily.
> I've tried those cheapo Razer switches.
> 
> And I've tried out all of the common switches at the store.
> 
> And yet, nothing beats the nonsensical "bumping" mechanism of a rubber dome keyboard. I just don't get the same feeling with a mechanical keyboard-- because it's LITERALLY typing on a bed of springs
> 
> I find rubber dome keyboards more comfortable. I type 130+ WPM on Typeracer, even peaking at 150+ sometimes. At my typing level it's not really about how good your keyboard is, it's about how fast you can physically mash the keys. It's actually way easier on a rubber dome since the force curve is more exponential than linear.
> 
> Just gotta rant a little. I really hate keyboard shilling.


Maybe you can try the Topre? Some say the they felt close to domes.
I have not tried myself but many ppl swear by it.


----------



## MajorMajor

It's a shame Topre are so expensive, it makes it hard for people to take a chance on them. CoolerMaster makes the most affordable option, the Novatouch.


----------



## Iceman2733

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Butthurt Beluga*
> 
> Hey guys, I'm looking specifically for a Cherry MX Blue/Green keyboard.
> I have a Razer Black Widow Ultimate (MX Blues) and I won a Corsair Strafe RGB (MX reds) in a giveaway recently and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that I do not like the linear switches of the reds for gaming or typing after using MX blues for so long.
> I saw the recommendations in the OP but if there were any other suggestions for Cherry MX Greens/Blues that'd be awesome
> Only requirement really is standard ANSI keyboard layout and obviously the green/blue switches.
> 
> also is there a general consensus or perhaps someone with personal experience with WASDKeyboards that can tell me about their build quality/if they're worth the price/etc?
> 
> thanks


I own a WASD Code V2 Keyboard 87key with MX Brown, I love the keyboard. It is build like a tank with a white metal back plate which works great with the LED lighting. I game lots at night so LED lighting was a must, I didn't want the silly RGB lighting pretty useless other than at a lan party IMO. The cord is replaceable which I like because it allowed me to get a longer cord without an extension having to be used.


----------



## Sin100

I thought these keys were supposed to be quite loud? I just got MX Browns as everyone said blues were really loud and browns were still quite loud but not as bad, I really don't find these loud at all, maybe I should have gone blues









Ah well I can always buy a blue at a later date if I get some extra cash







, I really like the feel of this Filco keyboard so I am definitely going to keep it!


----------



## Shardnax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sin100*
> 
> I thought these keys were supposed to be quite loud? I just got MX Browns as everyone said blues were really loud and browns were still quite loud but not as bad, I really don't find these loud at all, maybe I should have gone blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah well I can always buy a blue at a later date if I get some extra cash
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , I really like the feel of this Filco keyboard so I am definitely going to keep it!


I don't mind the sound blues make but, they're definitely pretty noisy.


----------



## zorbyss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sin100*
> 
> I thought these keys were supposed to be quite loud? I just got MX Browns as everyone said blues were really loud and browns were still quite loud but not as bad, I really don't find these loud at all, maybe I should have gone blues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah well I can always buy a blue at a later date if I get some extra cash
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , I really like the feel of this Filco keyboard so I am definitely going to keep it!


IMO, Browns are the quiestest of all mainstream switches (Red, Blue, Black etc.) out there.

Anyway, I wonder how much Filco usually cost in the UK? Some said they're overpriced (without any extra features, keys) but it's actually quite affordable (for a mechanical keyboard) here in my country.

I have a full size MJ2 ninja myself and I love it. Besides, Filco is the only branding I would want on my keyboard.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MajorMajor*
> 
> It's a shame Topre are so expensive, it makes it hard for people to take a chance on them. CoolerMaster makes the most affordable option, the Novatouch.


Just read about a topre clone, the Royal Kludge, reviews claim that the typing feels 75% close to an authentic Topre?


----------



## Sin100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zorbyss*
> 
> IMO, Browns are the quiestest of all mainstream switches (Red, Blue, Black etc.) out there.
> 
> Anyway, I wonder how much Filco usually cost in the UK? Some said they're overpriced (without any extra features, keys) but it's actually quite affordable (for a mechanical keyboard) here in my country.
> 
> I have a full size MJ2 ninja myself and I love it. Besides, Filco is the only branding I would want on my keyboard.
> Just read about a topre clone, the Royal Kludge, reviews claim that the typing feels 75% close to an authentic Topre?


Yeah I got it for £114 which is 658.211 MYR. I don't know what price you would get it for out there though, but to me it was worth it as it just feels so nice and has a great build quality that feels like it will last me many years to come







. I spend a lot of time typing so why not get something of good quality that feels nice.


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## zorbyss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sin100*
> 
> Yeah I got it for £114 which is 658.211 MYR. I don't know what price you would get it for out there though, but to me it was worth it as it just feels so nice and has a great build quality that feels like it will last me many years to come
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I spend a lot of time typing so why not get something of good quality that feels nice.


Couldn't agree more man. A good keyboard will completely change my everyday working day. But I gotta say their keycaps are bull**** man.

Btw, I bought mine around MYR 440 ~ £76.39. That's a huge difference!


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## mielehck

The link to *WASD Keyboard Switch Sampler* in post #3 is no longer active.


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## OCmember

What are the best registry settings for a keyboard?


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## Crazy9000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OCmember*
> 
> What are the best registry settings for a keyboard?


Defaults are best, you can only hurt messing with them.


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## caenlen

:thumb:Hey guys, I just bought the keyboard pictured below, I absolutely love it over my blues and reds cherry switches, but my issue is how do I lock the FN key at the bottom? So I can use media keys at top exclusively without having to FN key all the time to use them, I don't rarely use the F keys... so would be nice, and it shows a lock symbol on the FN key so I know it is possible, cheers.



Edit: nm I just figured it out


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## neurotix

Subbed.


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## Trev0r269

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MajorMajor*
> 
> It's a shame Topre are so expensive, it makes it hard for people to take a chance on them. CoolerMaster makes the most affordable option, the Novatouch.


On a slightly related note, there was a successful Plum84 drop recently where each board was $105 + shipping. It was easier for me to take a chance at that price.

For anyone else looking to try a light electro switch, keep an eye out for one of the Plums. Gotta hunt for deals or specific configs using topres/clones.









Link to recent drop with Plum84 info


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## LocoDiceGR

Bought the new masterkeys M , loved it but encounter ''unknown device'' problems and stuff like that,
send it back right away for a refund, ordered the blackwidow stealth 2016 and now we wait, i hope its good.


----------



## costilletas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caenlen*
> 
> :thumb:Hey guys, I just bought the keyboard pictured below, I absolutely love it over my blues and reds cherry switches, but my issue is how do I lock the FN key at the bottom? So I can use media keys at top exclusively without having to FN key all the time to use them, I don't rarely use the F keys... so would be nice, and it shows a lock symbol on the FN key so I know it is possible, cheers.


I've got the white version with browns, but same layout. I can't live without that layout now... full keyboard on a TKL... Wonderful


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## michaeldrk

For anyone that's used the G810 keyboard, is there a way to make the spacebar sturdier/harder to press?


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## hrockh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *michaeldrk*
> 
> For anyone that's used the G810 keyboard, is there a way to make the spacebar sturdier/harder to press?


remove the spacebar and take a photo of what the mechanism looks like. there are a couple of solutions OEMs can make with regards of the spacebar.

---
I've been using the Logitech G710+ for three years now, still love it. Although I would like to move to wireless but the vast majority of the ones I found are over Bluetooth. Which means no BIOS functionality








Similarly to the Logitech Unified receiver (all devices work on BIOS), is there a wireless mechanical keyboard out there that will work at the BIOS?
Preferably with the following functionality:
- Separate volume controls
- Numpad

- macros / backlight / interchangeable battery are nice to have but not essential.

Thank you!


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## Unsaid90

Hello there, sorry for not being able to read more than 10-15 last pages







awesome thread.
Can anyone point me towards a good mechanical keyboard with MX Black switches (or smth similar, maybe a bit lighter , dont care about the noise, but dont want tacticle feedback ) that looks really nice, preferably a "skeleton" type with lots of red colour and backlight that's red too if possible. thx. I'm aware there are some really obvious choices, but mb something more exotic ? Preferably available on aliexpress , coz that's usually cheaper.


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## Pro Hxn

Look ! For buying a gaming mouse or keyboard you have to do some research !

You have to google about which is the best gaming mouse in 2017.

Logitech G502 is the best gaming mouse. Source: https://probeasts.com/best-gaming-mouse/


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## TheChankWhoGank

Hey has anyone here ever done a mod to the ducky one TKL RGB with the https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=283 metal case? I'm new to modding or w.e you can call it and i was wondering if that case would fit it. it looks like the dip switch will fit but im not sure about the mounting, any feedback will be appreciated


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## CowDog

Best keyboard guide available online!

Thanks for your time and efforts! here


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## underclockme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CowDog*
> 
> Best keyboard guide available online!
> 
> Thanks for your time and efforts!


Agree, I just picked up the K65 recommended by this best tenkeyless gaming keyboard guide and while pretty comprehensive nothing like this guide. I new to the forum and I am seeing folks have issues with Corsair









Now wishing I would have gone with a Cooler Master, hoping I don't have issues. Although I picked up the k65 lux rgb at nearly half the price so that was definitely a plus.


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## Dlehh

Hello guys, just a quick one. I'm thinking about buying a mechanical keyboard with the shortest actuation distance possible. I was thinking about Blackwidow TE with yellow switches vs the Corsair K65 rapidfire (silver cherry mx switches). What would you guys advise?


----------



## Iceman2733

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dlehh*
> 
> Hello guys, just a quick one. I'm thinking about buying a mechanical keyboard with the shortest actuation distance possible. I was thinking about Blackwidow TE with yellow switches vs the Corsair K65 rapidfire (silver cherry mx switches). What would you guys advise?


The Cherry MX Silver have the shortest actuation distance of any of the mechanical switches


----------



## Dlehh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman2733*
> 
> The Cherry MX Silver have the shortest actuation distance of any of the mechanical switches


I've read that the yellow switches by razer have a actuation distance of 1.2 mm, which is the same as the silver switches. The do have a total travel distance of 3.5mm as opposed to the 3.4mm on the silver switches. So this is the shortest we can get, right?


----------



## Iceman2733

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dlehh*
> 
> I've read that the yellow switches by razer have a actuation distance of 1.2 mm, which is the same as the silver switches. The do have a total travel distance of 3.5mm as opposed to the 3.4mm on the silver switches. So this is the shortest we can get, right?


Welp you are right they both have the same actuation distance, I don't keep up on razer stuff however you are indeed correct. To the finger they will both be the same get whichever comes with the keyboard you like.

Good little read on these switches

http://www.pcgamer.com/the-new-cherry-mx-speed-silver-may-become-its-most-popular-gaming-switch/


----------



## Dlehh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman2733*
> 
> Welp you are right they both have the same actuation distance, I don't keep up on razer stuff however you are indeed correct. To the finger they will both be the same get whichever comes with the keyboard you like.
> 
> Good little read on these switches
> 
> http://www.pcgamer.com/the-new-cherry-mx-speed-silver-may-become-its-most-popular-gaming-switch/


I've typed on a corsair and I loved the experience. My biggest issue with it is that I can only find US and UK layouts available which is upsetting. The article you've mentioned is really helpful. Thanks a lot


----------



## Iceman2733

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dlehh*
> 
> I've typed on a corsair and I loved the experience. My biggest issue with it is that I can only find US and UK layouts available which is upsetting. The article you've mentioned is really helpful. Thanks a lot


Yea that is a problem it seems not a lot of keyboard companies are using the MX Silver switches yet, I did find out that Vortex is. I am actually typing on a Race 3 with silver switches, not sure of your keyboard requirements but maybe try mechanicalkeyboards.com and sort the keyboards by their switch type and see if you can find one that suits your needs. Thats if you haven't already done this lol


----------



## Dlehh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman2733*
> 
> Yea that is a problem it seems not a lot of keyboard companies are using the MX Silver switches yet, I did find out that Vortex is. I am actually typing on a Race 3 with silver switches, not sure of your keyboard requirements but maybe try mechanicalkeyboards.com and sort the keyboards by their switch type and see if you can find one that suits your needs. Thats if you haven't already done this lol


I haven't done that yet ' going to check it out now!


----------



## Dlehh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman2733*
> 
> Yea that is a problem it seems not a lot of keyboard companies are using the MX Silver switches yet, I did find out that Vortex is. I am actually typing on a Race 3 with silver switches, not sure of your keyboard requirements but maybe try mechanicalkeyboards.com and sort the keyboards by their switch type and see if you can find one that suits your needs. Thats if you haven't already done this lol


Hadn't done that, but now I came across a lot more options! Eheh those ducky rgb ones look really nice


----------



## Iceman2733

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dlehh*
> 
> Hadn't done that, but now I came across a lot more options! Eheh those ducky rgb ones look really nice


Can't go wrong with a Ducky they are quality I have been wanting to pick one up but I am a stickler for desk top foot print. If you don't mind DSA or 75% caps check out the Vortex Race 3 I love this things foot print and feel it is built like a tank.


----------



## Dlehh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman2733*
> 
> Can't go wrong with a Ducky they are quality I have been wanting to pick one up but I am a stickler for desk top foot print. If you don't mind DSA or 75% caps check out the Vortex Race 3 I love this things foot print and feel it is built like a tank.


Btw, do you know what's their polling rate? ( Ducky and vortex keyboards)


----------



## Jaybro

Hi, I was wondering if cherry mx brown switches are like the feel of tactile is like that on a laptop specifically the lenovo t430 tactile keys?


----------



## krista031

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jaybro*
> 
> Hi, I was wondering if cherry mx brown switches are like the feel of tactile is like that on a laptop specifically the lenovo t430 tactile keys?


i havent tried that lenovo laptop keyboard, but im sure you wont have the same feeling.
Maybe the pressure point could be equal, but the length the standalone keyboard key travels when you press it in comparison to the shallow laptop one is, id say, at least double, and definitely changes the way you feel when typing.

btw I have das keyboard model s ultimate with mx brown


----------



## cainy1991

Reviving ye ole thread here..

Has anyone noticed any degradation in quality in cherry mechanical switched?

My first cherry keyboard lasted years not a single issue ever.

I got a new keyboard last year because I wanted heaps of macro keys, Runs red cherry switches just like my first.
But this one started chattering on multiple keys within a couple months, got a replacement and it did the same thing.

So rather than get the same keyboard again (I figured it was the manufacturer not the switch causing the issue)
I got a completely different brand.... same deal cherry reds... started chatterinng within a couple months..

So now I'm thinking it may be the cherry switches..

Am I crazy? or is there validity to my insanity?


----------



## lucasgh

he Cherry MX Silver have the shortest actuation distance of any of the mechanical switches


----------



## neurotix

My custom gmmk










Gmmk v2 104 key, Kailh Box Jade switches, Cherry Blue o-rings, plastidipped white and red with plastidip pearlizer (looks pink), Filco sakura keycaps. Stabs trimmed and lubed. Lots of padding for dampening and adding weight inside it, I used a thin white crafting foam sheet and packed it in the case under the pcb.


----------

