# Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power



## bobsaget

Very impressive results, the performance is on par with these big dual towers. The price is also very attractive.

I might finally have found a replacement for my good old HR02


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## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> First review is out. 1.3c warmer than NH-D14 2011SE with single fan on [email protected] Wonder how it will do with 2 fans.. or 2 TY-143 fans?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?288762-Thermalright-TRUE-Spirit-140-Power
> 
> Very impressive!
> 6x 8mm heatpipes give it as much or more heatpipe area as the best have, but obviously not as much fin area. Everything is plated and black top too.


2nd fan should be around 3-4c better performance. which means it will pass the noctua









with less than 2c delta I think I would just take the reduced noise of only needing a single fan. plus this cooler is $54 on Amazon No need to speed $80 on air cooler amymore


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## AlphaC

For the price &noise , I don't think anything matches it.









edit
Pricing in UK is ~£ 35 (see http://www.scan.co.uk/products/thermalright-true-spirit-140-power)
Prcing in Europe is ~€40 (see http://www.pc-cooling.de/product_info.php?products_id=11701&language=de&ref=1000, http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/Thermalright-True-Spirit-140-Power-Tower-Kuehler_956452.html)
Prcining in USA is ~$45 (see http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=FAN-TS140P)

Another review over on Awardfabrik, they use Prime95 though
http://awardfabrik.de/guenstiges-trio/10/


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!









Lautstärke= noise


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## IlIkeJuice

Tall cooler, the only downside IMO.


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## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IlIkeJuice*
> 
> Tall cooler, the only downside IMO.


That's what the 150mm tall True Spirit 120i (new for March 2014, with PCI-e slot offset like the IB-E) and Macho 120 BW RevA are for


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## mam72

The width of the cooler could be a problem, it can block the top PCI-e slot which can be a problem with 2011 or any socket closer to the expansion slots


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## Elohim

The original TS140 already was the best "budget high end" cooler in my book, especially if you are searching for a quiet solution, so the TS140 Power seems to be even slightly better.


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## doyll

It's not for all applications but for many it will be great for cases and motherboards it will fit.









Difference on 6mm pipe version between one and two TY-140 fans is 1.5c, but using Gentle Typhoon AP-3 it is 6c cooler. If we get similar results with 8mm pipes the True Spirit 140 Power will be an even better value.
https://www.overclockers.com/thermalright-true-spirit-140-heatsink-review/


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## PontiacGTX

What about the old archon vs this?


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## doyll

Another review coming up aces!
Within a few degrees of the best (Silver Arrow IB-E)
http://translate.google.com/translate?langpair=auto|en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fawardfabrik.de%2Fguenstiges-trio%2F

Wow! It's extremely quiet! 36.6dBA compared to SA IB-E at 41.3dBA
http://translate.google.com/translate?langpair=auto|en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fawardfabrik.de%2Fguenstiges-trio%2F


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## doyll

Added images to OP.


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## Beemo

Thanks Doyll, I'll have to do some research tomorrow (to make sure it fits my system, pretty sure it will) but that seems like a great replacement for my evo.


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## doyll

Define R4 specs 170mm CPU clearance but that's probably conservative. My R2 spec is "circa 165mm and TC14PE fits no problem. Worst case the tip0s of pipes will rub on sound mat on inside of side cover.

Found this Amazon.de review of TS140 in Define R4
Quote:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> This review is from: Thermalright True Spirit 140 CPU Cooler for Socket 775/1155/1366/AM2/AM3/FM1 (accessory)
> It has already been written here as well as everything about the product. Here are my comments about the device: The cooler has a very good cooling performance (my AMD Phenom II X4 3.4 it cools in the IDLE down to room temperature (28 ° C) sub-let the temperature rises no higher than 37 ° C. My housing. : Fractal Design Define R4) The installation is easy, until you get to the fan. This secure it with the supplied brackets to the cooling block is a true torment I would recommend this to fasten only on both sides of the upper hooks of the brackets, then the bottom. If an attempt is only on one side of the bracket completely secure, slip the whole thing and you quickly lose the nerves.
> 
> Furthermore: The imaginary for decoupling, enclosed rubber pads between the cooling block and the fan are subsequently not where the fans really rests, head to your in the instruction sheet. I've completely removed, trimmed and repositioned (left and right, at the edge of the cooling block). The fan itself may be on the rotor blades poorly deburred was the case at least for me, I have also processed again with a file.
> 
> Overall, the fan most of the time PWM Controlled running with me at about 550 RPM. Thus it is not audible to me. For the price a good acquisition.
> 
> Edit December 2013: Have now an AMD FX 8350 Octa-Core processor running under this cooler. With Arctic Cooling MX2 thermal paste even this does not get hotter than 50 ° C, with three case fans (2x 120mm 1x140mm) in the unchanged Case (fractal R4) provide for passage.


You will need 70mm clearance from center of CPU to PCI-E socket, but that shouldn't be a problem.

I always do a "practice" mounting before applying TIM just to familiarize myself with any potential problems. Only takes a couple minutes and alleviates the potential for poor TIM seat.

A good magnetic tip on screwdriver eases the installation of mounting screws.

Mounting fans is a PITA. Practice mounting them a few times before install and be sure to install fan clips on cooler before installing cooler.


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## wes1099

I recently used the last of my IC diamond, what TIM do you recommend to use?


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## PontiacGTX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> I recently used the last of my IC diamond, what TIM do you recommend to use?


Antec formula 7 is as good(if not better) as the IC7,other tims are gelid gc extreme or xigmatek freezing point


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## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> I recently used the last of my IC diamond, what TIM do you recommend to use?


I've heard both good and bad about IC Diamond.

TRUE Spirit 140 Power comes with Chill Factor III.

I bought several tubes of Thermalright's Chill Factor III so will be using them for awhile. As it's want I've been using for testing It's hard to change.







Before that it was Phanteks PH-NDC and Arctic MX-4.

If I was starting fresh it would be a hard choice.. GELID's GC-Extreme or Prolimatech's PK-3. Both are easy to use and give very good results.

There are several very good thermal pastes out there. All within a degree or two.
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/thermal-compound-charts/-5-CPU-Air-Cooling-Low-Pressure,3365.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/thermal-compound-charts/-4-CPU-Air-Cooling-High-Pressure,3364.html


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## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I've heard both good and bad about IC Diamond.
> 
> I bought several tubes of Thermalright's Chill Factor III so will be using them for awhile. As it's want I've been using for testing It's hard to change.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before that it was Phanteks PH-NDC and Arctic MX-4.
> 
> If I was starting fresh it would be a hard choice.. GELID's GC-Extreme or Prolimatech's PK-3. Both are easy to use and give very good results.


Gelid. I love it. It has no cure time and the tube you get for $12 is good for like 20+ applications.


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## doyll

Was doing some calculations for heat pipe area and fin contact area.
TRUE Spirit 140 Power has 6x 8mm pipes compared to normal TRUE Spirit 140 having 6x 6mm pipes.
That is *33% more heat pipe surface area* contacting each fin.
TS140 has 50 fins and TS140P has 46.
That is *8% less fins*.
8% less fins gives us *29% more heat pipe to fin contact area* transmitting heat from pipes to fins and into air.


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## bobsaget

Thanks.

I was wondering how efficiently the heat pipe to surface area translates to the CPU temperature decrease. Is there any formula about this in general, not specifically related to the TS140P?

Does it also depends a lot on the architecture of the rad (single/dual tower, fins airflow orientation, flat base, etc..)?

I see it as a Logit curve. I guess there is a point where the increase of surface area does not provide any decrease in temps.



(where Y=CPU temp and X=heat pipe to surface area).

What do you think?


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## doyll

Yes, it's all very important. The cooler is only as good as it's weakest link.

For these big coolers (large heatpipe & fin area) to show their cooling ability they need high TDP CPUs.

1st, how well the base transfers heat from CPU chip (in middle of CPU) to heat pipes. Base materaial & attachment to pipes is key here.
2nd, how well the heatpipes transfer that heat to fin pack and into fins. Fin attachment to pipes is the key here.
3rd, how well the airflow through fins transfers heat from fins into air. Fin design & airflow are key here.
There are many different designs of heatpipe wick to draw liquid back to base. Some perform better than others.


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## doyll

By my crude calculations the TRUE Spirit 140 Power with 8mm pipes has about 30% more pipe to fin contact area than TRUE Spirit 140. That is assuming both measure 107.5mm from bottom of fins to top of press fit flange on top of top fin... Which is the length of fin metal in contact with heatpipe.

Fin area is about 13% less for TRUE Spirit 140 Power is about 13% less than for TRUE Spirit 140; 45 fins on TS140P compared to 51 fins on TS140.

What is interesting is much better the cooling is.

Lenny over on Bit-Tech tested it on his i7 920 @ 4.2Ghz using TY-143 fans. His testing shows TRUE Spirit 140 Power 0.3c warmer with one fan at 1200rpm than NH-D14 was with 2 of the same fans at 1200rpm. Both running 2 fans at 1200rpm the TRUE Spirit 140 Power is 2c cooler, and 2 fnas at 2500rpm it's 3c better.. Remember this is NH-D14 with 2500rpm TY-143 fans, not it's stock 1200/1300rpm fans. Stock TRUE Spirit 140 Power uses a TY-147 fan. Same performance as TY-143 at same rpm.

http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=269339

On an i7 3690x @4.5Ghz TRUE Spirit 140 Power was 0.8c warmer than NH-D14 SE 2011 65/4c to 66.2c). Also 3c better than TRUE Spirit 140 with 6mm pipes.


And at same time was 2.5dBA quieter (42.4c to 39.9c)

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?288762-Thermalright-TRUE-Spirit-140-Power


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## Prelim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PontiacGTX*
> 
> What about the old archon vs this?


x2, anyone knows?


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## doyll

Look at some reviews and see how the old Archon performs against NH-D14. If it's as good as D14 than it's as good as TRUE Spirit 140 Power.


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## Prelim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Look at some reviews and see how the old Archon performs against NH-D14. If it's as good as D14 than it's as good as TRUE Spirit 140 Power.


I was referring to the lastest Archon SB-E X2, which has 8 pipes instead of 6.


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## wes1099

I just ordered a TS140 Power. I will post my thoughts on it when it arrives in 2 days.


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## GeneO

This looks like a good value for the cooling it provides. Wonder if it will benefit me replacing my NH-D14 (with A15 and F-12) with it. Probably not, but I would have considered this over that if it were available at the time.


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## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Prelim*
> 
> I was referring to the lastest Archon SB-E X2, which has 8 pipes instead of 6.


Does it perform as good as or better than NH-D14? I'm guessing it's within a few degrees one way or the other so performance is about the same as TRUE Spirit 140 Power
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> I just ordered a TS140 Power. I will post my thoughts on it when it arrives in 2 days.










I'm very happy with mine. Amazing performance for the price!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GeneO*
> 
> This looks like a good value for the cooling it provides. Wonder if it will benefit me replacing my NH-D14 (with A15 and F-12) with it. Probably not, but I would have considered this over that if it were available at the time.


With stock fan the performance is almost identical with TRUE Spirit 140 Power being quieter. With a second fan it's only a couple degrees better

LennyRhys over on Bit-Tech got amazing results with two TY-143 fans on his i7 920 @ 4.2Ghz. At 1200rpm got 52.55c at 1200rpm and at 2500rpm an amazing 43.25c. delta.

Here in UK the TRUE Spirit 140 Power is £34.67. A second TY-147 is only £5.87 for a total of £40.54. And if we want to go extreme two TY-143 fans cost £13.98 for a total of £48.65. That's an amazingly low price for a cooler that will cool this well.


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## bobsaget

I hope the TS140P wil be available in France at a reasonable price.. Finally getting a replacement for my HR02









I plan to use my current undervolted NF A15 on it though, i prefer it over the TYs.


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## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Prelim*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Look at some reviews and see how the old Archon performs against NH-D14. If it's as good as D14 than it's as good as TRUE Spirit 140 Power.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was referring to the lastest Archon SB-E X2, which has 8 pipes instead of 6.
Click to expand...

I don't know what the physics say about what's better, 8 * 6mm pipes or 6 * 8mm pipes.

If you only look at the geometry, nearly every formula you use turns out equal. The width of the base plate will be the same because it's (8 * 6) mm for both. In an equation about the surface area of the pipes, both sides will be equal because circumference of a circle is just a factor multiplied onto the diameter which will cancel out on the two sides of your equation.

The only place where a difference will be is the inside of the heat-pipe. This is because the formula for area of a circle has diameter squared. The thicker 8mm pipes will use more material, see here:

Take the square of radius of pipes multiplied by number of pipes:

(8 / 2) * (8 / 2) * 6 > (6 / 2) * (6 / 2) * 8
=> 4 * 4 * 6 > 3 * 3 * 8
=> 96 > 72

I have noooooo idea what that means and what to guess about what's the stronger idea... 8 thinner pipes that are overall less material or 6 thicker pipes that are overall more material.


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## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget*
> 
> I hope the TS140P wil be available in France at a reasonable price.. Finally getting a replacement for my HR02
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I plan to use my current undervolted NF A15 on it though, i prefer it over the TYs.


We all have our preferences. Noctua makes very good fans.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I don't know what the physics say about what's better, 8 * 6mm pipes or 6 * 8mm pipes.
> 
> If you only look at the geometry, nearly every formula you use turns out equal. The width of the base plate will be the same because it's (8 * 6) mm for both. In an equation about the surface area of the pipes, both sides will be equal because circumference of a circle is just a factor multiplied onto the diameter which will cancel out on the two sides of your equation.
> 
> The only place where a difference will be is the inside of the heat-pipe. This is because the formula for area of a circle has diameter squared. The thicker 8mm pipes will use more material, see here:
> 
> Take the square of radius of pipes multiplied by number of pipes:
> 
> (8 / 2) * (8 / 2) * 6 > (6 / 2) * (6 / 2) * 8
> => 4 * 4 * 6 > 3 * 3 * 8
> => 96 > 72
> 
> I have noooooo idea what that means and what to guess about what's the stronger idea... 8 thinner pipes that are overall less material or 6 thicker pipes that are overall more material.


I think it's "six of one and half a dozen of the other." I mean 6 & 8.








In theory the added area inside of pipes should allow vapor to move easier / faster too. Most use 6mm, but when 8mm are used they seem to perform at least as well as 6mm of equal area.


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## cpmee

Quote:


> The only place where a difference will be is the inside of the heat-pipe. This is because the formula for area of a circle has diameter squared. The thicker 8mm pipes will use more material, see here:


And since those pipes are copper more heat is transferred quicker with 6 X 8mm than with 8 X 6mm. Which seems to more than offset the smaller aluminum radiator surfaces in this case.


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## Spade616

my next heatsink for sure. looks great, single tower and performs about the same if not better than the D14. *sold*.


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## cpmee

Quote:


> my next heatsink for sure.


Same here. Of course, Ill have to mod the window on my case out by another 12.5 mm if the specs are accurate.


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## itcharzherp

what is it?


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## doyll

I see SuperBiiz has TRUE Spirit 140 Power for $42.99 + $6.99 shipping
http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=FAN-TS140P

They have TY-143 fans for $15.99.
http://www.superbiiz.com/query.php?s=ty-143

Really for most users a single TY-147 is fine... and if you want more cooling and can stand the added noise, the cost of a single TY-143 gives 11c better cooling. it's only 2.55c warmer than 2x TY-143 fans at 2500rpm and at 1200rpm only 1.65c warmer. Hardly worth the added expense. Keep in mind that's 1200rpm and TY-147 is rated 1300rpm so probalby a degree, maybe two better with the added 100rpm.


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## wes1099

I strongly suggest ordering from amazon if you possibly could. From amazon it may be a tad more expensive but you get much better customer support and the shipping is fast too.


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## doyll

Amazon is $54.95 for TRUE Spirit 140 Power and $17.99 for TY-143. Only $6.00 different.


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## doyll

dbl post


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## Nisrock7863

I wonder how hard this beast would crush my Evo. Been looking for an upgrade and this is within my price range.


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## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nisrock7863*
> 
> I wonder how hard this beast would crush my Evo. Been looking for an upgrade and this is within my price range.


About as much as your evo crushed your stock cooler.









Really it depends on how much overclock / heat your CPU is doing. If you are not overclocking the performance difference will not be as much. I'm sure it will be quieter.


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## wes1099

I am hoping to get at least a 4.5Ghz OC on my 4670k with this cooler.


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## Nisrock7863

I'm running an FX 8320 at 4.4GHz right now. I'd take it higher if I had more thermal headroom. This beast might help get me there. Quiet is a big selling point, too. When my computer really ramps up right now it sounds like a vacuum cleaner.

How much thermal compound came with it, out of curiosity?


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## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nisrock7863*
> 
> I'm running an FX 8320 at 4.4GHz right now. I'd take it higher if I had more thermal headroom. This beast might help get me there. Quiet is a big selling point, too. When my computer really ramps up right now it sounds like a vacuum cleaner.
> 
> How much thermal compound came with it, out of curiosity?


I have one coming tomorrow, I will post some pictures of the contents of the box.


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## cpmee

Quote:


> How much thermal compound came with it, out of curiosity?


Looks like the Chill Factor paste comes in a squeeze packet, so maybe 3 or 4 uses. After opening, youll have to store it in an air tight container, like a plastic bag or small bottle.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?288762-Thermalright-TRUE-Spirit-140-Power


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## doyll

Chill Factor 3 is good paste. 4g tube is £3.50 including 20% tax ($4.89 w/o tax). So why is it $9.95 in America?


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## deepor

I just fold those kind of packets and put tape on it and that works fine to prevent it from drying out.


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## cpmee

Quote:


> I just fold those kind of packets and put tape on it and that works fine to prevent it from drying out.


I do too, and then put it a plastic bag or bottle. I sometimes go for a year(s) or more without using a particular paste.


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## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> I have one coming tomorrow, I will post some pictures of the contents of the box.


Sorry I havent posted my pictures yet, I had a semi-catastrophic failure after I installed the cooler. Anyways, it comes with 2g of chill factor 3 paste in a plastic squeeze packet. I will post pictures later when I find my phone (the only device I own with a decent camera)

EDIT: And by the way, this cooler is taller in person than it is on the internet. It stands 175mm up from my motherboard. It was so tall that it actually doesn't fit in my case with the side panel on, but was going to mod the side panel anyway...


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## doyll

CPU surface is 8mm above motherboard surface.









So if it's 175mm above motherboard it's shorter than it should be.









My TRUE Spirit 140 Power measures 170.9mm


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## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> CPU surface is 8mm above motherboard surface.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if it's 175mm above motherboard it's shorter than it should be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My TRUE Spirit 140 Power measures 170.9mm


I just measured again, it appears that you are correct. I must have had the end of my ruler on a capacitor or some raised component protruding from the motherboard.


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## Nisrock7863

Thanks guys. Might break down and order this beast soon. How's performance been for those of you that have it up and running so far? Temps as impressive as the reviewers indicate?


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## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nisrock7863*
> 
> Thanks guys. Might break down and order this beast soon. How's performance been for those of you that have it up and running so far? Temps as impressive as the reviewers indicate?


On i7 980 TRUE Spirit 140 Power is performing same as it did with 14PE, Silver Arrow SB-E, Silver Arrow IB-E and Cryorig R1 Ultimate. 980 is not overclocked and a +/- 1c variance.


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## cpmee

Quote:


> EDIT: And by the way, this cooler is taller in person than it is on the internet. It stands 175mm up from my motherboard. It was so tall that it actually doesn't fit in my case with the side panel on, but was going to mod the side panel anyway...


Picture frames or reversed picture frames are good for that. Something in a nice oak, walnut or cherry.








Quote:


> Anyways, it comes with 2g of chill factor 3 paste in a plastic squeeze packet.


Thats not bad, half a tube of normal size.


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## doyll

Quote:


> EDIT: And by the way, this cooler is taller in person than it is on the internet. It stands 175mm up from my motherboard. It was so tall that it actually doesn't fit in my case with the side panel on, but was going to mod the side panel anyway...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cpmee*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: And by the way, this cooler is taller in person than it is on the internet. It stands 175mm up from my motherboard. It was so tall that it actually doesn't fit in my case with the side panel on, but was going to mod the side panel anyway...
> 
> 
> 
> Picture frames or reversed picture frames are good for that. Something in a nice oak, walnut or cherry.
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> C*PU surface is 8mm above motherboard surface.*
> My *TRUE Spirit 140 Power measures 170.9mm*
> 
> 
> 
> I just measured again, it appears that you are correct. I must have had the end of my ruler on a capacitor or some raised component protruding from the motherboard.
Click to expand...

Wes1099'
Maybe edit the original 175 post and line out the 175 bit.. so it does not confuse people into thinking measurements are not correct.


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## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nisrock7863*
> 
> Thanks guys. Might break down and order this beast soon. How's performance been for those of you that have it up and running so far? Temps as impressive as the reviewers indicate?


My idle temps on my i5-4670k stock speed are about 20c, but that is if i have absolutely nothing running at all. If I just have chrome, MSI command center, and malwarebytes open like I always do I get about 25c. I ran Prime95 blend test for 2 hours and the average temp was 55c, the highest was 60c.


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## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Wes1099'
> Maybe edit the original 175 post and line out the 175 bit.. so it does not confuse people into thinking measurements are not correct.


Good idea


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## cpmee

Quote:


> I ran Prime95 blend test for 2 hours and the average temp was 55c, the highest was 60c.


And thats how much cooler than what you had before ? And what did you have before ?


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## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cpmee*
> 
> And thats how much cooler than what you had before ? And what did you have before ?


Before I had the Intel stock cooler. It idled at about 35-40c and then Prime95 blend for 30 minutes got it up to 85c.


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## cpmee

That looks about right, a 25 - 30C decrease over the stock intel cooler at stock load speeds. When you overclock, the difference will be greater.


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## doyll

What is the fan speed idle and load?


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## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> What is the fan speed idle and load?


I currently have it set to spin at ~570rpm up until it hits 40c, and then it gradually speeds up and hits the max speed of 1300rpm at 70c.


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## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cpmee*
> 
> That looks about right, a 25 - 30C decrease over the stock intel cooler at stock load speeds. When you overclock, the difference will be greater.


Yeah, I want to overclock but I don't feel like taking the time to do it right now, but when I do I will post my results.


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## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> I currently have it set to spin at ~570rpm up until it hits 40c, and then it gradually speeds up and hits the max speed of 1300rpm at 70c.


What is the rpm when it's running 54-57c? Like when stress testing?


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## wes1099

wesrctawscdbfvgahascavghd
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> What is the rpm when it's running 54-57c? Like when stress testing?


I'm not sure, it did not record fan speeds when I did the stress test, but I will run another one later and report back with load fan speeds.


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## doyll

Not a big deal. Was just curious.


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## wes1099

Hopefully the silicon lottery was in my favor when I bought my i5-4670k. I am currently doing some research so I can determine what I should expect and where I should start with my overclocking.


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## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cpmee*
> 
> Picture frames or reversed picture frames are good for that. Something in a nice oak, walnut or cherry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats not bad, half a tube of normal size.


That picture frame idea is awesome, but I can't seem to find one that is the right size. I need something around 18x18.


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## cpmee

Quote:


> That picture frame idea is awesome,


Yeah, since my case is oak top and front, with aluminum side panels, it wasnt that much of a stroke of brilliance when I saw a reversed oak picture frame, and considering the design of some of the newer cases, heh. It was more of a like DUH, heh.









Why so big ? The one I use is 11" X 14", more than enough. Just make sure it has enough depth for the bump out needed. Also I got my oak frame with glass at Goodwill for $1 from a very wide selection, you should be able to find deals like that in your thrift/second hand shops. The glass is nice and easy to clean. If it breaks Ill put in plexi. Four small screws hold the frame very tightly to the side panel.

At first it looked odd to me, like everyone was going to say "you just stuck a picture frame on your case", what an idiot. But after three months, I have to say, it looks darn good to me now and professional looking.









Oh, and because of the narrowness of my 1990's full tower double case frames, I had to add another 3/8" thick layer of oak to the frame to accommodate my CM Hyper 212+. To accommodate the True Spirit 140 Power, Ill have to add 7/16" to 1/2" more. Not too big of a biggie as I have the tools and the wood and the stain to do the job.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cpmee*
> 
> Yeah, since my case is oak top and front, with aluminum side panels, it wasnt that much of a stroke of brilliance when I saw a reversed oak picture frame, and considering the design of some of the newer cases, heh. It was more of a like DUH, heh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why so big ? The one I use is 11" X 14", more than enough. Just make sure it has enough depth for the bump out needed. Also I got my oak frame with glass at Goodwill for $1 from a very wide selection, you should be able to find deals like that in your thrift/second hand shops. The glass is nice and easy to clean. If it breaks Ill put in plexi. Four small screws hold the frame very tightly to the side panel.
> 
> At first it looked odd to me, like everyone was going to say "you just stuck a picture frame on your case", what an idiot. But after three months, I have to say, it looks darn good to me now and professional looking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and because of the narrowness of my 1990's full tower double case frames, I had to add another 3/8" thick layer of oak to the frame to accommodate my CM Hyper 212+. To accommodate the True Spirit 140 Power, Ill have to add 7/16" to 1/2" more. Not too big of a biggie as I have the tools and the wood and the stain to do the job.


I just found a frame on amazon that is 16x16 and I think it will work. When I said 18x18 I was being stupid and measuring my case. I measured the side panel and I can not go any larger than 16x16 unless I want to get something custom made. I want the window to be as big as possible because I plan on doing some internal case mods like a PSU shroud, and I am going to get rid of my hdd bays so I have room for water cooling stuff, so I want to be able to see all of that. What kind of screws did you use to fasten the frame to the panel? Did you just drill a hole in the panel and use a wood screw to go into the frame?


----------



## cpmee

Quote:


> What kind of screws did you use to fasten the frame to the panel? Did you just drill a hole in the panel and use a wood screw to go into the frame?


Thats it, just 4 wood screws a bit less longer than the depth of the wood frame. Drilled pilot holes a little less than the diameter of the screws, so no chance of the wood splitting. My side panels are 1/8" aluminum, so I counter sunk the heads a bit, but it really wasnt necessary.


----------



## bobsaget

Hi,

Do you guys know if the ts140p uses the same mounting system (at least the backplate) than the hr02?

It would allow me to install the TS without having to remove the whole system from the case.

Thanks


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Do you guys know if the ts140p uses the same mounting system (at least the backplate) than the hr02?
> 
> It would allow me to install the TS without having to remove the whole system from the case.
> 
> Thanks


Don't have both but I see no reason there should be any problems.
Base measures 11.6mm thick which may be thicker than TRUE Spirit 140(Power's 8mm pipes vs 6mm on others).
But I noticed the crossbar that goes over cooler base has more offset to accommodate the thicker base.
Back plate and front plate are same as other TR coolers.. Macho, Silver Arrow SB-E & IB-E.
The crossbar offset looks to be the only difference.









To quote someone famous for his lack of emotion; "It is logical," to change as little as possible to keep retooling and production costs down.


----------



## bobsaget

Ok thanks. Of course it would keep the production costs low to use the same mounting system over time, but the manufacturer can still change it if there is room for improvement


----------



## doyll

Only "improvement" Thermalright need on their mount is to replace the little tiny #&*#* screws with thumb screws and fixed screws in crossbar.








But a good magnetic screwdriver or nutdriver works a treat.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cpmee*
> 
> Picture frames or reversed picture frames are good for that. Something in a nice oak, walnut or cherry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats not bad, half a tube of normal size.


I bought a frame and bolted it to my case, need to make one more cut and then sand edges of the cutout, then I need to find a way to get the glass to stay in.


----------



## Nisrock7863

How is everyone's results with this beast? There's only a couple left on Amazon and I'm having a hard time holding off until I get paid.


----------



## Jeffredo

I have two TS 140s in my PCs, so I pretty much know what it will do - basically subtract a couple degrees C. I'm pretty happy with them save for the fan mounting. Overly fiddly wires and the rubber pads don't stick well to the cooler - fortunately the force of the fan mashed against it keeps them more or less in place. Kicking around getting either the TS 140 Power or a Noctua NH-U14S for a third PC. The Noctua is about $9 more.


----------



## doyll

Thermalright in USA has strangely high prices but I'm seeing lower prices too.

Nan's Gaming Gear TRUE Spirit 140 Power was $44.95 but out of stock now. Normal TS140 is $39.99.
http://www.nansgaminggear.net/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TS-140-Power

SuperBiiz is $42.99 + $6.99 post but again out of stock
https://www.superbiiz.com/query.php?categry=0&s=TRUE+spirit+140+power&x=0&y=0


----------



## bobsaget

It doesn't look that expensive. The vanilla ts140 is 39/40 Euros in France, the ts140 power is currently at 45 Euros.. why don't I live in the US?


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Thermalright in USA has strangely high prices but I'm seeing lower prices too.
> 
> Nan's Gaming Gear TRUE Spirit 140 Power was $44.95 but out of stock now. Normal TS140 is $39.99.
> http://www.nansgaminggear.net/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TS-140-Power
> 
> SuperBiiz is $42.99 + $6.99 post but again out of stock
> https://www.superbiiz.com/query.php?categry=0&s=TRUE+spirit+140+power&x=0&y=0


I bought my TS140 Power from Nan's gaming gear, but it was off of amazon with the 2 day shipping so i payed $54.99


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget*
> 
> It doesn't look that expensive. The vanilla ts140 is 39/40 Euros in France, the ts140 power is currently at 45 Euros.. why don't I live in the US?


€ 45.00 isn't bad. Actually cheaper than America. € 45.00 is € 36.00 without tax and that is $49.95 plus 6-12% tax depending where you are in America.
£ 34.67 here, which is € 42.18 and $ 48.74
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> bought my TS140 Power from Nan's gaming gear, but it was off of amazon with the 2 day shipping so i payed $54.99


Still not a bad price. Especially considering how well TRUE Spirit 140 Power performs.


----------



## Nisrock7863

Broke down and ordered it.







Should be installed Wednesday or Thursday. I ordered it through Nan's on Amazon as well. Still a killer deal at $55 for the performance.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nisrock7863*
> 
> Broke down and ordered it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should be installed Wednesday or Thursday. I ordered it through Nan's on Amazon as well. Still a killer deal at $55 for the performance.











Look forward to hearing your impressions and thoughts.


----------



## wes1099

The fan that came on mine has made a slight rattling noise ever since I got it, what fan would you guys reccomend to replace it with? I am looking for something quiet and static pressure optimized.


----------



## bobsaget

NF A 15 PWM, perfect fit for this cooler. Works very well and extremely silent on my Thermalright HR02.


----------



## deepor

Phanteks also has 140mm fans designed to be quiet and with 120mm mounting holes.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> The fan that came on mine has made a slight rattling noise ever since I got it, what fan would you guys reccomend to replace it with? I am looking for something quiet and static pressure optimized.


I can't hear mine 3 feet away.

Sounds like a defective fan. Get it replaced.
http://www.thermalright.com/contact_us.html

Thermalright has always been good when I needed their help with anything. Should be no problem.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I can't hear mine 3 feet away.
> 
> Sounds like a defective fan. Get it replaced.
> http://www.thermalright.com/contact_us.html
> 
> Thermalright has always been good when I needed their help with anything. Should be no problem.


I don't think it is worth RMAing the fan because I planned to replace it anyway so that it would match my colors better.


----------



## doyll

Understand.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> I don't think it is worth RMAing the fan because I planned to replace it anyway so that it would match my colors better.


Understand. I thought you liked the TY-143.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Understand.
> Understand. I thought you liked the TY-143.


I do like my TY-143, I just want different colors.


----------



## Nisrock7863

How well does the Tr Macho Rev A compare to the Tr TS140P? It just occurred to me that picking this bad boy up will make buying a new case in the future a lot more difficult. I was eyeballing the Corsair Obsidian 450D, but it only supports coolers 165mm in height.

EDIT: The Corsair Air 540 would fit it. Maybe I'll lean that way.


----------



## wes1099

Tr Macho Rev A < Tr TS140P

TS140P has 6x 8mm heat pipes and 46 aluminum fins 1.9mm apart while the Macho Rev A has 6x 6mm heat pipes and 31 aluminum fins 3.1mm apart. So, TS140P wins with higher fin density, and a greater contact area between the heat pipes and the fins.

doyll can correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nisrock7863*
> 
> How well does the Tr Macho Rev A compare to the Tr TS140P? It just occurred to me that picking this bad boy up will make buying a new case in the future a lot more difficult. I was eyeballing the Corsair Obsidian 450D, but it only supports coolers 165mm in height.
> 
> EDIT: The Corsair Air 540 would fit it. Maybe I'll lean that way.


Have you looked at Fractal Design cases? Arc Midi (180mm CPU clearance; 230 x 460 x 515mm), or Define R4 (170mm but it will fit; 232 x 464 x 523mm)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Tr Macho Rev A < Tr TS140P
> 
> TS140P has 6x 8mm heat pipes and 46 aluminum fins 1.9mm apart while the Macho Rev A has 6x 6mm heat pipes and 31 aluminum fins 3.1mm apart. So, TS140P wins with higher fin density, and a greater contact area between the heat pipes and the fins.
> 
> doyll can correct me if I am wrong.


You got it right.


----------



## Froogs

Hi all, I just purchased this bad boy from Amazon and it arrived last night. I am relatively new to the high end cooler world, but let me just say that this thing is impressive and massive. I will be pairing it with my 2700k. I haven't gotten a chance to try it out yet as I am still waiting for the new motherboard to arrive. Before I found the TS, I was going with the Frio Advanced CLP0596 for about $10 more. Thanks for the thread!


----------



## doyll

Welcome to our crazy bunch. Froogs.








Do let us know when you get to using it.


----------



## Nisrock7863

Thanks. Decided to stick with the Tr TS140P. The case I've got is good, I'm just stuck in shopping mode.

Doing the install tonight. I'll post temps once it's up and running.

For the record, this CPU cooler is incredibly heavy. It's like an anchor with fins attached.


----------



## Froogs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Have you looked at Fractal Design cases? Arc Midi (180mm CPU clearance; 230 x 460 x 515mm), or Define R4 (170mm but it will fit; 232 x 464 x 523mm)
> You got it right.


I purchased to R4 and while I haven't done any measurements the eye test looks like it _should_ fit, but it will be close.


----------



## doyll

Can't wait to see TRUE Spirit 140 Power in Define R4.


----------



## Nisrock7863

I wonder if it's really necessary to apply TIM to the cooler and the CPU as the instructions say, or if the pea method would work fine. Maybe they want to maximize contact everywhere to get as much transfer as possible. The base of the cooler is definitely oversized.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nisrock7863*
> 
> I wonder if it's really necessary to apply TIM to the cooler and the CPU as the instructions say, or if the pea method would work fine. Maybe they want to maximize contact everywhere to get as much transfer as possible. The base of the cooler is definitely oversized.


A dob on CPU the size of a large grain that when seated give a print like these two is waht you want. All the heat is in middle area of CPU or in a line through the middle.
  

A good magnetized screw driver or nut driver makes assembly of base and installation of cooler much easier.
Do a trial assembly before you apply TIM so you are familiar with how to center and start crossbar screws without moving cooler around on CPU. Slight movement is okay, but not very much or air may become entrapped in the print. And that compromises cooling. I've seen more problems with too much TIM than with too little.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nisrock7863*
> 
> I wonder if it's really necessary to apply TIM to the cooler and the CPU as the instructions say, or if the pea method would work fine. Maybe they want to maximize contact everywhere to get as much transfer as possible. The base of the cooler is definitely oversized.


Thermalright talks about the credit card method in their instructions, right? That's how it was on my older cooler from them.

You can get that to work well, but it's pretty hard to get right. The pea method is much better.

If you want to try the credit card method for fun, I found it works best if you make layers on both CPU and cooler's base. The layers have to be so thin that the writing on top of the CPU shines through. Also, no scratches, it has to be a perfectly smooth layer of paste.


----------



## Nisrock7863

I used the pea method with my Evo and I want to get a fair comparison, so i'll just stick with that. Easy and clean.


----------



## ehume

I think a grain of rice is a more apt metaphor than a pea. I use about three-four grains of rice.


----------



## Nisrock7863

It's installed. It's huge. It's impressive looking.

These temps are, well...I'll be real. Disappointing. My results have been exactly in line with what I was getting with my Hyper 212 Evo. I ran the same stress test with the same silent PWM preset and got exactly the same temperatures. Switching to a dramatically louder configuration netted me some improvement, but no more than I'd get at the same preset with the Evo.

I reseated the cooler. There were no loose screws. Everything was locked down tight, and TIM was in the right place. There was good coverage over the center and a good spread across the heat spreader. I reseated it using the paste that came with it instead of my Cooler Master ThermalFusion 400, and temps actually went up 3C at the core.

Maybe it's because there's no air being directly fed into my CPU cooler. It's all pulled up from the two front intake fans, which aren't lined up with the CPU cooler at all. Still, that fact didn't hold the Evo back from getting exactly the same temps. I could try moving my side intake fan into that duct I made and see if that improves matters, but it didn't help the Evo at all. Maybe the little 120mm fans just generated enough static pressure to pull air up from the front intakes or through the mesh about a foot away.

This is definitely a head-scratcher. Using the Chill Factor I managed to recreate the temps I was getting with my Evo (55C core, 60C socket) on silent by setting the fan to run at 100% at 60C manually. Problem is it's now louder than the Evo.

Any suggestions?


----------



## doyll

Strange.







Maybe it's like I said in other thread.








Have you checked the cooler intake air temps? Didn't see anything posted about it.
What is room temp?

My test system i7 920 stock runs upper 40s at 100% load all cores at 1000rpm under 14PE w/ TY-143s. If I run fans 2500rpm the temp is mid 40s; only a few degrees cooler. But running i7 [email protected] with no other changes gives upper 50s at 1000rpm and mid 40s at 2500rpm Both are with cooler intake 221-22c


----------



## Nisrock7863

Room temp was the same - 25C. I don't have a thermometer to test intake air temps yet, although I intend to remedy that soon, but my motherboard temp never exceeded 27C. Air going into the cooler can't be too hot since the GPUs are both idle when I'm stress testing, and most of the air it's bringing in originates from air pulled up from the front intakes and air pulled in through the mesh front of the 5.25" bay.

I doubt it's a problem with warm air getting trapped. The temps ramp up almost instantly. It's crazy how fast it goes from idle temps to max. I swear it's faster than the Evo. Bumped up case fan speeds didn't make a difference aside from noise. The air coming out of the case wasn't even that warm. Makes me wonder if heat is even transferring to the cooler effectively.

I think I'll try reseating it again and use the exact same method I did when I mounted my Evo - a very thin layer on the cooler to fill any small imperfections, using a credit card to smooth it down, then a grain of rice in the center of the heat spreader. Coverage was almost perfect. I didn't bother the first two times because the base of the cooler is very smooth, but smoothness doesn't translate to perfect coverage. If that doesn't work I'll try the duct again, and if that fails, this behemoth is going back to Amazon.

I did some additional testing and came to the conclusion that the two coolers are not, in fact, maintaining the same temperatures. I use a turbo OC on my FX 8320, which dynamically clocks up and down as it's able in order to maintain certain temperature limitations. It doesn't drop below the base clock with the Evo, but it does with the Tr TS140P. It's actually running hotter. I reverted to a static overclock for testing purpoaes and it is, in fact, running a bit warmer. Not sure what's up, but something is wrong here. Gonna hang my hopes on the duct and reseating for now.

I'm also going to triple check the mounting hardware to make sure it's all set up properly. I double checked it when I reseated it the first time, but maybe I missed something.


----------



## GeneO

What core temps were you getting, exactly (at 25 ambient room)?


----------



## wes1099

Maybe the cooler was just a dud?


----------



## doyll

Definitely something not right. Please post some pics of TIM print, the mount, etc. when you take it off. Maybe we can spot something you don't. Check the base is flat too.. just in case.

TRUE Spirit 120 cools better than 212, and it's 4x 6mm pipes with 48 fins in a pack 132x52x108mm. TS140P is 6x 8mm pipe with 45 fins in a pack 155x53x110mm.

TRUE Spirit 120 vs Hyper 212 Evo on i7 920 processor at stock speed and also 3.3ghz 1.3625 volts
Stock is 46c & 46c. Overclocked is 64c & 69c.


i7 920 and FX 8320 are not the same, but similar.

It might be a bad cooler, but that is a rarity.


----------



## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Definitely something not right. Please post some pics of TIM print, the mount, etc. when you take it off. Maybe we can spot something you don't. Check the base is flat too.. just in case.
> 
> TRUE Spirit 120 cools better than 212, and it's 4x 6mm pipes with 48 fins in a pack 132x52x108mm. TS140P is 6x 8mm pipe with 45 fins in a pack 155x53x110mm.
> 
> TRUE Spirit 120 vs Hyper 212 Evo on i7 920 processor at stock speed and also 3.3ghz 1.3625 volts
> Stock is 46c & 46c. Overclocked is 64c & 69c.
> 
> 
> i7 920 and FX 8320 are not the same, but similar.
> 
> It might be a bad cooler, but that is a rarity.


is that graph showing about 7c difference? I was hoping it would cool my sons 4670k enough to not delid it. Im afraid 7c more is still short what I need. I wiil pop the top then see where its at. 55 more $ for 7c is tough.

on a hotter cpu the gap should widden correct?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wirerat*
> 
> is that graph showing about 7c difference? I was hoping it would cool my sons 4670k enough to not delid it. Im afraid 7c more is still short what I need. I wiil pop the top then see where its at. 55 more $ for 7c is tough.
> 
> on a hotter cpu the gap should widden correct?


If you can delid, it's always best option. Given that i can use about 1.35vcore without problematic temps on a silver arrow, this thing could probably get you to 1.3vcore - where you'll be within 200mhz of max OC, quite likely. If you're looking to max these things out, you really do need delid to be comfortable, and if you're not, then you should be able to find an acceptable compromise


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wirerat*
> 
> is that graph showing about 7c difference? I was hoping it would cool my sons 4670k enough to not delid it. Im afraid 7c more is still short what I need. I wiil pop the top then see where its at. 55 more $ for 7c is tough.
> 
> on a hotter cpu the gap should widden correct?


No, the graph is showing 5c difference between TRUE Spirit *120* and Hyper 212 Evo. TRUE Spirit 120 should be about $30.-35.00. TRUE Spirit 140 Power is about $55.00 and cools significantly more than TRUE Spirit 120 can.

On a hotter CPU the gap will be more, BUT only up to the limit of the heat cooler can dissipate.

As Cryo said, with the 4670k the limiting factor is the problem of moving heat from chip to IHS, not from IHS to cooler and than into air.


----------



## Nisrock7863

With a static overclock of 4.4GHz I'm getting mid 50s at the core after ten runs of IBT AVX. Ran tests with several different fan profiles and saw variance of only 2C at the core, which was nice. 54C was the result I got with a manual profile for 100% at 60C and case fans at silent, 56C at silent on both. Nice thing is those numbers aren't spiking after a few runs. They seem to hold steady there, so my case cooling seems to be doing it's job.

Not bad, but definitely not great, and in line with the Evo numbers. I'll reseat it on Monday night, most likely. I'll post pictures then. I'll also do a test run or two reseating it to make sure my paste approach is working. I'll be using my ThermalFusion. I have plenty of it to work with.


----------



## Cyro999

For you Wirerat:



Encoding w/ 100% CPU load on 4.5ghz, 1.3vcore, 4c/4t (ht off or 4670k) using a silver arrow (no delid). Ofc this cooler will be worse, but not catastrophically so. That's a 68.5c average on hottest core - nothing to worry about, IMO. Hottest load i've ran in the last 11 months, gaming, encoding, whatever. My ambients might have been a hair below 20 to take those, so i'l say 70c average hottest core @[email protected]@20c ambient.


----------



## Nisrock7863

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!









Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!









Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!









Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







I pulled the heatsink off and my last application of Chill Factor 3 wasn't that great. It looks like I only really got coverage on one side, and the other had so little pressure that when the CPU heated up the paste it spread into the area. That's just a guess, though - the one side looks very different from the other. Maybe I just need to apply more pressure when screwing on the mounting bracket.

I double checked the back plate screws and the front bracket screws. They're snug.

Any help here would be appreciated.

EDIT: Tightened screws all around. It helped some.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> I pulled the heatsink off and my last application of Chill Factor 3 wasn't that great. It looks like I only really got coverage on one side


That's a lot of paste, i would try just blob method in middle, like a pea of whatever size you want. It shouldn't bulge over the sides of the IHS, definitely. Sorry if this is not helpful/just repeating stuff though









Ricegrain is better for Intel - their dies are a distinct thin rectangular shape now, but FX 4-module's are not


----------



## doyll

Imprint looks like there is not enough pressure in lower right and TIM is not seating / spreading as a result. Only top left looks good. Looks almost like the top mounting plate is a little too high / far above motherboard.

Not doubting you've mounted it right but just in case I have to ask:

As per mounting instructions:
You had the 4x M3 L10 screws (#7) through backing plate (#3) setting on table.
Put the 4x big AMD plastic washers (#11)on screws on top of plate.
Sat the motherboard onto it.
Screwed the 4x screw nuts (#5) onto the screws and tightened them in a cross pattern.
Put the anchoring plate (#2) on top of screw nuts, put in the 4x M3 L6 screws (#8) in and tightened with cross pattern.
Mounted cooler with 2x M3 L6 (#8) screws and tightened.
You might try putting a thin shim between the crossbar and top cooler base to increase pressure. Something like a piece of file folder cut to fit the top of cooler base. That would be about 0.25-0.30mm of thickness.


----------



## Nisrock7863

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Imprint looks like there is not enough pressure in lower right and TIM is not seating / spreading as a result. Only top left looks good. Looks almost like the top mounting plate is a little too high / far above motherboard.
> 
> Not doubting you've mounted it right but just in case I have to ask:
> 
> As per mounting instructions:
> You had the 4x M3 L10 screws (#7) through backing plate (#3) setting on table.
> Put the 4x big AMD plastic washers (#11)on screws on top of plate.
> Sat the motherboard onto it.
> Screwed the 4x screw nuts (#5) onto the screws and tightened them in a cross pattern.
> Put the anchoring plate (#2) on top of screw nuts, put in the 4x M3 L6 screws (#8) in and tightened with cross pattern.
> Mounted cooler with 2x M3 L6 (#8) screws and tightened.
> You might try putting a thin shim between the crossbar and top cooler base to increase pressure. Something like a piece of file folder cut to fit the top of cooler base. That would be about 0.25-0.30mm of thickness.


Always best to start with the basics. Yeah, I put it together properly. I reassembled it to be sure. Looks like it was mostly an issue of tightness on the screws. I got better results after I screwed everything in as far as it'd go. I like the mounting hardware a lot, but didn't have enough faith in their engineering to tighten it to the maximum. That's probably why it was loose. I snugged everything, but didn't bear down on it.

I'm going to reseat it again tonight, use less paste, and keep everything tight. Hopefully I'll see more improvement. Used too much last time. I'm also gonna use a different paste. That Chill Factor 3 is a nightmare to clean up. Ordered more ThermalFusion, but it won't be here until Thursday.

I did mess with higher overclocks than I'd achieved in the past. Managed 4.5, which only ran about 4-5C warmer, but 4.6 eludes me for the moment due to socket temps. Still, progress. The Evo wasn't able to quite handle 4.5 since it requires 1.4v on my chip.


----------



## wes1099

I think I am going to re-mount mine soon too. I never got a chance to see if i got the paste right, and I think I may be able to screw things down tighter. I am also going to try to OC to 4.5, where should I start in terms of voltages?


----------



## Nisrock7863

Yeah, I definitely just mounted/pasted it poorly. Reseating it with less paste and tightening everything got much better temps. I'm very happy with it now...Time to get cranking.









EDIT: Just to be clear, I dropped about 5C getting it set up properly. It now smokes the Evo at 4.4, and has no problem at all with 4.5. 4.6+ might take some ducting to get air to move from the back of the socket directly to the exhaust fans up top, but that's due to my choice in motherboard, not this cooler.


----------



## doyll

Great news!








I often make ducts to keep heated exhaust separated from cooler intake... sometimes it's intake duct, sometimes exhaust. Easy to make and experiment with.

Forgive me, but I can't remember if you have stock fan or TY-143.


----------



## Nisrock7863

I have the stock fan. The 143 might be in my future as an upgrade, though. That thing is crazy.

Ducting probably isn't the right word. It'd just take a single strip of poster paper to direct the heated air to move from the back of the motherboard to the top exhausts. I'm specifically aiming to keep it from pooling next to the fans. I'll probably just tape it to the motherboard tray a bit above the top of the motherboard and to the fans at the top. Should give the air coming in from the rear panel socket fan a fairly direct path out of the case.

It'd work better if this case was a bit taller, but we do what we can with what we have.


----------



## doyll

I don't remember if your said what your cooling fan layout is or not.

A good rear exhaust fan and no top fan should do a good job.
With GPUs pulling 140watt each they are making as much or more heat than CPU.
Drawing the heat from them to a top exhaust is going to allow some of it to mix with CPU cooler intake.
Assuming they are not reference cards and have 2x 90mm fans each they will need at least 2x 120mm intake fans to move as much air as they can use.
If you have 3x 5.25 bays empty a 3rd front intake could be installed.
Remove unused PCI slot covers so front fans can push heat out the back.
Test the side vent as intake and exhaust to see which is best.
Think I already suggested reading 2nd link in sig.


----------



## wes1099

Ok, I remounted cooler, and OCd to 4.5ghz at 1.35v on my i5-4670k. Is 1.35v high for a 4.5ghz overclock? I don't have time to find lowest stable voltage at the moment... Idle temps are 30c


----------



## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Ok, I remounted cooler, and OCd to 4.5ghz at 1.35v on my i5-4670k. Is 1.35v high for a 4.5ghz overclock? I don't have time to find lowest stable voltage at the moment... Idle temps are 30c


1.35v for 4.5ghz is slightly below average cpu. The average is 1.28v for 4.5 on our haswell guide. As long as temps are good 1.35v is fine though.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wirerat*
> 
> 1.35v for 4.5ghz is slightly below average cpu. The average is 1.28v for 4.5 on our haswell guide. As long as temps are good 1.35v is fine though.


Played with it a little more, got it down to 1.319v. I will play with it some more later when I get home.


----------



## cloppy007

Would the True Spirit be a big improvement over a TRUE 120 (first rev)? It's for a 2500k.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloppy007*
> 
> Would the True Spirit be a big improvement over a TRUE 120 (first rev)? It's for a 2500k.


Which TRUE and which TRUE Spirit.? TRUE Spirit 90, TRUE Spirit 120, or TRUE Spirit 140? 4 heatpipes or 6 heatpipes?

If you have 6 heatpipes than performance is better than new TRUE Spirit 120.
If you have 4 heatpipes than it performs pretty much the same as new TRUE Spirit 120.


----------



## cloppy007

TRUE= Thermalright Ultra 120 eXtreme, the original one with 6 heatpipes and densely packed fins (the later revs increased the fin space to support low static pressure fans IIRC).
By True Spirit I mean the 140 Power


----------



## doyll

I'm almost as slow as a snail. Can still keep up with turtles though.








TRUE Spirit 140 Power should be better.
At least it is better than TRUE Copper 132x63x160.5mm all copper weighting 1900g (Heatsink Only) the TRUE Spirit 140 Power is 2-4c better with same fans.. and I believe your Ultra 120 eXtreme is a couple degrees warmer than TRUE Copper.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Thermalright designed the TRUE Spirit 140 Power for high TDP/heat CPUs. That is where it's big 8mm pipes show off their cooling ability. Cooling improves by 8.4c with TY-143 high performance fan at 2500rpm compared to 1200rpm. 2x TY-143 perform 9.3c better. TY-143 performs the same at 1200rpm as stock TY-147 does at 1200rpm, so 1300rpm is maybe 1c cooler than 1200rpm. A very impressive difference between, but it comes at a cost.. It is much louder. That may or may not be a problem. For most of us it is not because our systems rarely run at 100% load, and at 70% load the TY-143 will be spinning about 1200-1300rpm.. same as stock TY-147.









Do keep in mind if you use the TY-143 at high speeds you will also need to increase case airflow to remove the higher cfm of air moved through cooler by TY-143 or case & cooler intake temps will rise.. and in turn so will CPU temps.


Sorry for the ramble.
The TRUE Spirit 140 Power is better than you Ultra 120 eXtreme.


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I'm almost as slow as a snail. Can still keep up with turtles though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TRUE Spirit 140 Power should be better.
> At least it is better than TRUE Copper 132x63x160.5mm all copper weighting 1900g (Heatsink Only) the TRUE Spirit 140 Power is 2-4c better with same fans.. and I believe your Ultra 120 eXtreme is a couple degrees warmer than TRUE Copper.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Thermalright designed the TRUE Spirit 140 Power for high TDP/heat CPUs. That is where it's big 8mm pipes show off their cooling ability. Cooling improves by 8.4c with TY-143 high performance fan at 2500rpm compared to 1200rpm. 2x TY-143 perform 9.3c better. TY-143 performs the same at 1200rpm as stock TY-147 does at 1200rpm, so 1300rpm is maybe 1c cooler than 1200rpm. A very impressive difference between, but it comes at a cost.. It is much louder. That may or may not be a problem. For most of us it is not because our systems rarely run at 100% load, and at 70% load the TY-143 will be spinning about 1200-1300rpm.. same as stock TY-147.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do keep in mind if you use the TY-143 at high speeds you will also need to increase case airflow to remove the higher cfm of air moved through cooler by TY-143 or case & cooler intake temps will rise.. and in turn so will CPU temps.
> 
> 
> Sorry for the ramble.
> The TRUE Spirit 140 Power is better than you Ultra 120 eXtreme.


It's no ramble at all, I like information and details, thanks a lot









Based on that, I don't think I'll get more than a 10ºC difference. Perhaps I'm better off reusing the ancient heatsink.


----------



## doyll

True, I don't think you would get 10c better cooling. Not unless you are at or near the maximum cooling ability of your Ultra. But if you can get a TRUE Spirit 140 Power for £33.77.. and a TY-143 for £6.99.. which is what they cost here.


----------



## Nisrock7863

I ultimately found that the jump was worth it for me, but I was going from a Hyper 212 Evo. If you're happy with your current overclock it's probably not worth the expense, but if you want to go further and you're looking for extra headroom you'd be hard pressed to find better value than the TS140P. I didn't notice a huge difference in load temps at my Evo's max overclock ([email protected].368v on FX 8320), only around 5C, but I suddenly had a lot more thermal headroom to work with. Despite big increases in voltage to climb past 4.4GHz this cooler has only shown small increases in core temps, while the Evo choked almost immediately at higher clocks. I've gone as high as 4.7GHz, but hit a wall due to socket temps and don't really care to fight further than that. Even at 4.7GHz, which is near the limit for these chips on air, I had some breathing room at the core thanks to this cooler. I'm just too lazy to attach a fan to my VRMs.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nisrock7863*
> 
> I ultimately found that the jump was worth it for me, but I was going from a Hyper 212 Evo. If you're happy with your current overclock it's probably not worth the expense, but if you want to go further and you're looking for extra headroom you'd be hard pressed to find better value than the TS140P. I didn't notice a huge difference in load temps at my Evo's max overclock ([email protected] on FX 8320), only around 5C, but I suddenly had a lot more thermal headroom to work with. Despite big increases in voltage to climb past 4.4GHz this cooler has only shown small increases in core temps, while the Evo choked almost immediately at higher clocks. I've gone as high as 4.7GHz, but hit a wall due to socket temps and don't really care to fight further than that. Even at 4.7GHz, which is near the limit for these chips on air, I had some breathing room at the core thanks to this cooler. I'm just too lazy to attach a fan to my VRMs.


Thank you for sharing your experience. If you ever do need more cooling headroom a TY-143 fan will do it.


----------



## RyuVsJaquio

I'm really considering this cooler for an upcoming build, and wanted to get some thoughts on an idea of mine. I had planned on getting the TY-143 to replace the stock fan that comes with the TS140P, however I am now thinking perhaps it would be worthwhile to use the stock fan AND TY-143 in tandem. Would this be a good idea? Or would it be better to just use the TY-143?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuVsJaquio*
> 
> I'm really considering this cooler for an upcoming build, and wanted to get some thoughts on an idea of mine. I had planned on getting the TY-143 to replace the stock fan that comes with the TS140P, however I am now thinking perhaps it would be worthwhile to use the stock fan AND TY-143 in tandem. Would this be a good idea? Or would it be better to just use the TY-143?


The TY-143 runs twice as fast as TY-147. It will not work in tandem / push-pull. And if you go with the TRUE Spirit 140 Power keep in mind you will need at least 130cfm of case airflow just for it. You will also need at least as much additional airflow as your GPU uses.


----------



## RyuVsJaquio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> The TY-143 runs twice as fast as TY-147. It will not work in tandem / push-pull. And if you go with the TRUE Spirit 140 Power keep in mind you will need at least 130cfm of case airflow just for it. You will also need at least as much additional airflow as your GPU uses.


My current case is the Enthoo Primo so I think I should be ok in that regard. One fan it is then.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuVsJaquio*
> 
> My current case is the Enthoo Primo so I think I should be ok in that regard. One fan it is then.


The 143 is very loud at full speed. I would consider a pair of ~147's? The black/white fan.


----------



## RyuVsJaquio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> The 143 is very loud at full speed. I would consider a pair of ~147's? The black/white fan.


I've thought about that as well, but seeing Lenny's bit-tech review, 2x1200 RPM fans had a negligible effect (~2 degrees C) compared to 1x1200 RPM fans. The TY-147s run at 1300 RPM so it might be a tiny bit better. The results from going to 1x1200 RPM fan to 1x2500 RPM fan is about 9 degrees C. Seems as if I should go 1 TY-147 or 1 TY-143 if those graphs are to be believed. The question is is the added noise of the TY-143 worth the ~9 degree decrease in temps? What do you guys think?


----------



## doyll

LOL. Yeah, you have plenty of airflow and cooling.

Lenny's test show how well TRUE Spirit 140 Power performs with a stock TY-147 by running the TY-143 at 1200rpm. It's as good as most top coolers for much less money. But with the TY-143 increases the cooling when running faster.
I don't think 2nd fan is worth it, but using a TY-143 does not mean it will be running fast enough to be too loud. I run 2 of them on my PH-TC14PE and system is always almost silent.. because the TY-143s never run above 1100rpm. Now if I overclock more and build more heat than as fan increase in speed to keep things cool so does their noise level.


----------



## Cyro999

ty-143 over 147 never made nearly that much difference on silver arrow afaik


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> ty-143 over 147 never made nearly that much difference on silver arrow afaik


With proper case airflow the difference is about 8c.







The video testing is on you tube. Stock Silver Arrow is TY-141 & TY-150.


----------



## Nisrock7863

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuVsJaquio*
> 
> I've thought about that as well, but seeing Lenny's bit-tech review, 2x1200 RPM fans had a negligible effect (~2 degrees C) compared to 1x1200 RPM fans. The TY-147s run at 1300 RPM so it might be a tiny bit better. The results from going to 1x1200 RPM fan to 1x2500 RPM fan is about 9 degrees C. Seems as if I should go 1 TY-147 or 1 TY-143 if those graphs are to be believed. The question is is the added noise of the TY-143 worth the ~9 degree decrease in temps? What do you guys think?


It's still a PWM fan. You can run it silently if you'd like, but it will give you more headroom when stress testing. I guess the answer to your question is another question: do you want 9C more at the core to work with? If you're not looking to push your overclock further it's probably not worth the expense. The TS140P is pretty damned good with the stock fan, and it's very quiet.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> With proper case airflow the difference is about 8c.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The video testing is on you tube. Stock Silver Arrow is TY-141 & TY-150.


I have an SBE-SE silver arrow (pair of the black/white 140mm fans)

8c can you link me video? I have an air540 so i have two front intakes, a rear exhaust and two top fans basically dedicated to the CPU cooler and even a 3-5c difference would be extremely interesting to me. That'd mean i was trashing a lot of 240mm clc temps instead of merely rivaling and beating the bad setups


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> I have an SBE-SE silver arrow (pair of the black/white 140mm fans)
> 
> 8c can you link me video? I have an air540 so i have two front intakes, a rear exhaust and two top fans basically dedicated to the CPU cooler and even a 3-5c difference would be extremely interesting to me. That'd mean i was trashing a lot of 240mm clc temps instead of merely rivaling and beating the bad setups


Here you go. TY-143 fans gave 8c improvement (7c better than H100) while noise level is only 1dBA louder than H100 (human ear needs 3dBA to hear a change in volume)

i7 3820 @4.75GHz
Temperature is delta.

H100 . . . . . . . . . 41c2500rpm . . . . . . . . . 55dBA 2x fans (stock)
SA SB-E . . . . . . . 42c1100rpm & 1300rpm. . 38dBA TY-150 & TY-141 (stock)
SA SB-E Extreme. . 34c2500rpm . . . . . . . . . 56dBA 2x TY-143 (stock)





jump in to 3:40 for results


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Here you go. TY-143 fans gave 8c improvement (7c better than H100) while noise level is only 1dBA louder than H100 (human ear needs 3dBA to hear a change in volume)
> 
> i7 3820 @4.75GHz
> Temperature is delta.
> 
> H100 . . . . . . . . . 41c2500rpm . . . . . . . . . 55dBA 2x fans (stock)
> SA SB-E . . . . . . . 42c1100rpm & 1300rpm. . 38dBA TY-150 & TY-141 (stock)
> SA SB-E Extreme. . 34c2500rpm . . . . . . . . . 56dBA 2x TY-143 (stock)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jump in to 3:40 for results


Wow, mind blown. Thanks. I might have to pick up one or three of these things. No point throwing one in the middle without one in the front to feed it, right? At least i have two front intakes quite close with a direct path to the CPU cooler, so i don't have to run ridiculous fans as long as i could get 130cfm to the front of the cooler.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Wow, mind blown. Thanks. I might have to pick up one or three of these things. No point throwing one in the middle without one in the front to feed it, right? At least i have two front intakes quite close with a direct path to the CPU cooler, so i don't have to run ridiculous fans as long as i could get 130cfm to the front of the cooler.


Top air is as good or better than top CLC, cheaper, more dependable, but does require more attention to case airflow.









I use 3x TY-140 PWM controlled case fans to supply TY-143s on CPU cooler and Asus GTX580 DirectCU II. Cooler intake temps are 1-3c above room temp. First and sencond links in sig explain PWM control and case airflow.


----------



## mam72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Top air is as good or better than top CLC, cheaper, more dependable, but does require more attention to case airflow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I use 3x TY-140 PWM controlled case fans to supply TY-143s on CPU cooler and Asus GTX580 DirectCU II. Cooler intake temps are 1-3c above room temp. First and sencond links in sig explain PWM control and case airflow.


You for got to say that heatsinks are quieter than CLCs


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mam72*
> 
> You for got to say that heatsinks are quieter than CLCs


ups









But the specs on H100 and Silver Arrow SB-E versions both show how much quieter they are at same temps.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mam72*
> 
> You for got to say that heatsinks are quieter than CLCs


they're not if you're using multiple ty-143's


----------



## mam72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> they're not if you're using multiple ty-143's


Actually they can be tamed, they behave when you put them under PWM control. From my own testing I think they are identical to the other fans when its at 1300 RPM or less, which is a little odd.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mam72*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> they're not if you're using multiple ty-143's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually they can be tamed, they behave when you put them under PWM control. From my own testing I think they are identical to the other fans when its at 1300 RPM or less, which is a little odd.
Click to expand...

Not odd at all.
I think of them as a hi-performance car like BMW M3. Grandma can drive it to church and we can go racing with it in the afternoon.


----------



## mam72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Not odd at all.
> I think of them as a hi-performance car like BMW M3. Grandma can drive it to church and we can go racing with it in the afternoon.


The odd part of the fan is that normally high speed fans usually cannot run at 600ish RPM or they can and tick a lot, even the Almighty Gentle Typhoon AP-30 can't get close to doing that.








, normally car analogies and computer stuff don't mix, I have seen some really bad one in the past, so this is even more odd to me


----------



## doyll

But TY-143 is like a well tuned powerful engine... idles nice, good low and mid-range performance.. and buckle up tight when the throttle gets punched!








I use the same analogy for fans with higher static pressure. great airflow with no obstructions / resistance.. and guess what.. still great airflow with obstructions / resistance.









Now if they would just make the Ty-143 in a nice black / white combination.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mam72*
> 
> Actually they can be tamed, they behave when you put them under PWM control. From my own testing I think they are identical to the other fans when its at 1300 RPM or less, which is a little odd.


We're talking about load performance, and if i was running my silver arrow with a 200-300w CPU at load, then at 100% load i would want the fans maxed not at half RPM, and in a game, i'd want the fans up to be at 60c instead of 75c from like 800rpm. If this fan can make a dent on my load temperatures, it can't do it without being significantly over my ty-147's 1300rpm speed and noise level

Low idles is nice, but i dont mind 1300rpm @ idle. I've been using 5 140mm fans at ~1150-1300rpm at 100% speed for a month and a half, doesn't really bother me. I need to dedicate some hours to sorting out which extra fans to get, the exact config for them, and how i'm going to fan control six 140mm fans and three 120mm's
Quote:


> Now if they would just make the Ty-143 in a nice black / white combination.


Yea, my build is white/black focused and it'd suck to lose that


----------



## ehume

This is the new Kraken (from announcement here)

Is it my imagination, or are these impellers the same as the TY-14x?


----------



## deepor

Really looks extremely similar to me.



In that picture, that's the shape used for TY-140, TY-143 and TY-147. The TY-141 and the larger TY-150 have a different shape for the blades.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> We're talking about load performance, and if i was running my silver arrow with a 200-300w CPU at load, then at 100% load i would want the fans maxed not at half RPM, and in a game, i'd want the fans up to be at 60c instead of 75c from like 800rpm. If this fan can make a dent on my load temperatures, it can't do it without being significantly over my ty-147's 1300rpm speed and noise level
> 
> Low idles is nice, but i dont mind 1300rpm @ idle. I've been using 5 140mm fans at ~1150-1300rpm at 100% speed for a month and a half, doesn't really bother me. I need to dedicate some hours to sorting out which extra fans to get, the exact config for them, and how i'm going to fan control six 140mm fans and three 120mm's
> 
> Yea, my build is white/black focused and it'd suck to lose that


My point is how often is your CPU running 100% on all cores? I render graphics and even than unless I run two sessions at same time system is not 100% and fan run at 1200-1400rpm. Depending on how strong a signal fan needs and how strong the motherboard PWM signal is you can run at least 8 PWM fans on one motherboard PWM signal. I've ran 11 on mine. You can also use GPU PWM signal for case fans supporting it's airflow.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the new Kraken (from announcement here)
> 
> Is it my imagination, or are these impellers the same as the TY-14x?


How about a KraTY-147?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> We're talking about load performance, and if i was running my silver arrow with a 200-300w CPU at load, then at 100% load i would want the fans maxed not at half RPM, and in a game, i'd want the fans up to be at 60c instead of 75c from like 800rpm. If this fan can make a dent on my load temperatures, it can't do it without being significantly over my ty-147's 1300rpm speed and noise level
> 
> Low idles is nice, but i dont mind 1300rpm @ idle. I've been using 5 140mm fans at ~1150-1300rpm at 100% speed for a month and a half, doesn't really bother me. I need to dedicate some hours to sorting out which extra fans to get, the exact config for them, and how i'm going to fan control six 140mm fans and three 120mm's
> 
> Yea, my build is white/black focused and it'd suck to lose that
> 
> 
> 
> My point5 is how often is your CPU running 100% on all cores? I render graphics and even than unless I run two sessions at same time system is not 100% and fan run at 1200-1400rpm. Depending on how strong a signal fan needs and how strong the motherboard PWM signal is you can run at least 8 PWM fans on one motherboard PWM signal. I've ran 11 on mine. You can also use GPU PWM signal for case fans supporting it's airflow.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the new Kraken (from announcement here)
> 
> Is it my imagination, or are these impellers the same as the TY-14x?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about a KraTY-147?
Click to expand...

To channel my Kiwi friends: Eeeexcellent composite! +rep


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> My point5 is how often is your CPU running 100% on all cores? I render graphics and even than unless I run two sessions at same time system is not 100% and fan run at 1200-1400rpm. Depending on how strong a signal fan needs and how strong the motherboard PWM signal is you can run at least 8 PWM fans on one motherboard PWM signal. I've ran 11 on mine. You can also use GPU PWM signal for case fans supporting it's airflow.


Do you know if there's a simple device that can add PWM signals from two sources or perhaps choose the higher speed signal one, so that you can tie all case fans to both CPU and GPU PWM signal?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> My point5 is how often is your CPU running 100% on all cores?


Every time i encode a video, my CPU is at 100% on all cores for a time ranging from 10 seconds to many hours

If i wasn't using CPU at 100%, i wouldn't care for temps at 100% and i probably wouldn't want super aggressive cooling


----------



## doyll

Thanks ehume.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Do you know if there's a simple device that can add PWM signals from two sources or perhaps choose the higher speed signal one, so that you can tie all case fans to both CPU and GPU PWM signal?


Not that I know of, sorry.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Every time i encode a video, my CPU is at 100% on all cores for a time ranging from 10 seconds to many hours
> 
> If i wasn't using CPU at 100%, i wouldn't care for temps at 100% and i probably wouldn't want super aggressive cooling


Than as Forest Gump said "Houston, we have a problem." If we make so much heat we have to run 130cfm of air to keep CPU cool than it is what it is.

I'm assuming the cooler intake air is at or near room temperature.

In my experience dropping fan speed 500rpm doesn't dramatically change cpu temperature, but does make quite a difference is noise.. Lowering CPU load 5-10% does make quite a difference in CPU temperature.

If you are not reaching critical temps, try lowering fan speed and see. You might be lucky and find 500rpm less is only a couple degrees hotter. If that doesn't work try lowering CPU load a little.

That is what I did on mine. Only a few minutes more rendering time and system stays quiet.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Thanks ehume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not that I know of, sorry.
> Than as Forest Gump said "Houston, we have a problem." If we make so much heat we have to run 130cfm of air to keep CPU cool than it is what it is.
> 
> I'm assuming the cooler intake air is at or near room temperature.
> 
> In my experience dropping fan speed 500rpm doesn't dramatically change cpu temperature, but does make quite a difference is noise.. Lowering CPU load 5-10% does make quite a difference in CPU temperature.
> 
> If you are not reaching critical temps, try lowering fan speed and see. You might be lucky and find 500rpm less is only a couple degrees hotter. If that doesn't work try lowering CPU load a little.
> 
> That is what I did on mine. Only a few minutes more rendering time and system stays quiet.


I'd just like to have, say, three of them, and have the option to go over 1300rpm, if it really makes such a difference. 5c from 1300 to max RPM would be worth it. 3c and eh, i probably wouldn't give up the black/white color just to have 3c at a fan speed i dont want to run whenever my CPU is loaded.

Sure, i could sit at 4.5ghz 1.265v instead of 4.7ghz ~1.395v - but that just doesn't get the panties wet ;3

Would be nice to talk more about fans and cooling etc in PM, but i'd rather not derail the TS140P thread any more, hf


----------



## spenceaj

gunna necro this thread and ask if anyone knows what the ram clearance is its really tall and it should fir even corsair vegneance but im just woindering if the OP or subs have it in their build. im probably gunna get http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004HZDG00/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AVCN3MVCVULPH


----------



## doyll

G.Skill RipjawsX are 40mm + 3mm for socket = 43mm to top above motherboard.
TRUE Spirit 140 Power is 46mm + 8mm = 54mm to bottom fin above motherboard.

You will need 175mm of CPU clearance to fit sidecover on case ..
Motherboard to RAM is 43mm + 140mm TY-147 fan = 183mm - 8mm CPU height = 175mm


----------



## spenceaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> G.Skill RipjawsX are 40mm + 3mm for socket = 43mm to top above motherboard.
> TRUE Spirit 140 Power is 46mm + 8mm = 54mm to bottom fin above motherboard.
> 
> You will need 175mm of CPU clearance to fit sidecover on case ..
> Motherboard to RAM is 43mm + 140mm TY-147 fan = 183mm - 8mm CPU height = 175mm


sweet, well ive got a haf 912 and ive seen builds that have a haf 912 and a TS 140 so it looks like everything should fit


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spenceaj*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> G.Skill RipjawsX are 40mm + 3mm for socket = 43mm to top above motherboard.
> TRUE Spirit 140 Power is 46mm + 8mm = 54mm to bottom fin above motherboard.
> 
> You will need 175mm of CPU clearance to fit sidecover on case ..
> Motherboard to RAM is 43mm + 140mm TY-147 fan = 183mm - 8mm CPU height = 175mm
> 
> 
> 
> sweet, well ive got a haf 912 and ive seen builds that have a haf 912 and a TS 140 so it looks like everything should fit
Click to expand...

Please post back with pics and your thoughts when you get it installed.


----------



## spenceaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Please post back with pics and your thoughts when you get it installed.


will do, hopefully ill get everything by the end of the month, it sucks because i need to buy through amazon and they dont have any in stock, i emailed thermalright and they said early June is when amazon will get them back in


----------



## bobsaget

Do you guys know how the original HR02 performs compared to the Macho (basically a downgraded version of the HR02)?

It's clear that the TS140P beats the Macho by a certain margin, but I'm not sure for the HR02. I would be disappointed if I get identical or worse results by switching my HR02 with the TS140P. However, that would allow me to replace my slim rear case fan by a standard 25mm width one, so that may help the decrease in temps. Plus I would gain more silence.


----------



## spenceaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget*
> 
> Do you guys know how the original HR02 performs compared to the Macho (basically a downgraded version of the HR02)?
> 
> It's clear that the TS140P beats the Macho by a certain margin, but I'm not sure for the HR02. I would be disappointed if I get identical or worse results by switching my HR02 with the TS140P. However, that would allow me to replace my slim rear case fan by a standard 25mm width one, so that may help the decrease in temps. Plus I would gain more silence.


it looks like they perform about the same http://www.overclock.net/t/1493972/lightbox/post/22378638/id/2044943


----------



## Elohim

Its far to complicated for a simple Formular.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget*
> 
> Do you guys know how the original HR02 performs compared to the Macho (basically a downgraded version of the HR02)?
> 
> It's clear that the TS140P beats the Macho by a certain margin, but I'm not sure for the HR02. I would be disappointed if I get identical or worse results by switching my HR02 with the TS140P. However, that would allow me to replace my slim rear case fan by a standard 25mm width one, so that may help the decrease in temps. Plus I would gain more silence.


The difference, if there is any, wouldnt be worth changing the cooler, but if you are really into optimzing your system (wich i can completely understand) than why not









In that case icould also consider getting the Archon SBE X2 or the Noctua U14s


----------



## spenceaj

well now i cant get the True Spirit 140 Power for 55$ its 65$ so now its the same price as Phanteks PH-TC14PE anyone know which is better?


----------



## doyll

Phanteks is about 4-5c better.


----------



## spenceaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Phanteks is about 4-5c better.


alright, and do you know how it fits with gskill ripjaws?


----------



## doyll

14PE has 40mm from CPU to bottom fin.


----------



## spenceaj

Does anyone have any numbers on how the fan performs with 2 fans? and also is there any fans i could get that would make it cool considerably better?


----------



## deepor

What about this one, Thermalright TY-143: http://www.thermalright.com/html/products/fan/ty-143.html?panel=1 ?

It's PWM and runs at up to 2500 RPM.


----------



## spenceaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> What about this one, Thermalright TY-143: http://www.thermalright.com/html/products/fan/ty-143.html?panel=1 ?
> 
> It's PWM and runs at up to 2500 RPM.


Is it much better than the stock fan? What model is the stock fan?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spenceaj*
> 
> Is it much better than the stock fan? What model is the stock fan?


It's probably better, since stock 140mm fans on say silver arrow (non extreme) or nh-d15 etc typically run at far lower max rpm's. ty-143 is very very powerful but loud at high RPM


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spenceaj*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> What about this one, Thermalright TY-143: http://www.thermalright.com/html/products/fan/ty-143.html?panel=1 ?
> 
> It's PWM and runs at up to 2500 RPM.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it much better than the stock fan? What model is the stock fan?
Click to expand...

I think stock fan is the TY-147 you see on the Thermalright page. It has the exact same shape for the blades as the TY-143, but it does not have ball bearings and runs at 1300 RPM.


----------



## doyll

spenceaj,
You can easily look up the TRUE Spirit 140 Power to see what fan is comes with.








I don't mind helping, but it's you got off your duff and did at least a little of the leg-work here.








We know your fingers are not broken or you wouldn't be able to ask so many simple questions.









Testing with TY-143 on TRUE Spirit 140 Power, NH-D14 and TRUE Copper is covered in post 22.

TY-143 was tested at 1200rpm instead of 1300rpm, but the difference in cooling between 1200 and 1300rpm is minimal.. 1c is a good guess.


----------



## spenceaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> spenceaj,
> You can easily look up the TRUE Spirit 140 Power to see what fan is comes with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't mind helping, but it's you got off your duff and did at least a little of the leg-work here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We know your fingers are not broken or you wouldn't be able to ask so many simple questions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Testing with TY-143 on TRUE Spirit 140 Power, NH-D14 and TRUE Copper is covered in post 22.
> 
> TY-143 was tested at 1200rpm instead of 1300rpm, but the difference in cooling between 1200 and 1300rpm is minimal.. 1c is a good guess.


thanks i was looking through the thread and i remember seeing something about varation of fans on that post 22 but i couldn't remember what one and overclocks forum search is not good at all. thanks for all your help if i could give you another rep i would


----------



## doyll

Not a problem mate. Just has to tease you a little.









For most users the single TY-147 is all they will ever need. For the few that want a real beast the TY-143 foots the bill nicely.







.

TRUE Spirit 140 Power. £36.36
Thermalright TY-143 fan £6.99
7c cooler than NH-D14 *£43.35*


----------



## spenceaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Not a problem mate. Just has to tease you a little.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For most users the single TY-147 is all they will ever need. For the few that want a real beast the TY-143 foots the bill nicely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> TRUE Spirit 140 Power. £36.36
> Thermalright TY-143 fan £6.99
> 7c cooler than NH-D14 *£43.35*


so i see the 2nd fan is not very necessary. and the 147 is just as good as the same RPM?

know where i can get one in stock ive been looking for weeks and the best price i can find is 65$ shipped from frozen cpu, everywhere is out in the US


----------



## doyll

Indeed, second fan only give an extra couple of degrees. Better to go with just one.. Except than the issue is getting all the heated air it blows through cooler out of the case so it doesn't mix with cool intake air going to cooler.

I can't remember if you said where you were, and not much I can do without knowing because international shipping is very expensive.


----------



## doyll

Only Frozen PC


----------



## spenceaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Only Frozen PC


damn, and the ty-143 fans are 18$ too, at this price im considering a phanteks


----------



## RyuVsJaquio

Is the TY-143 the consensus best fan for this cooler or is there a 'better' option out there (price not being a factor)?


----------



## spenceaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuVsJaquio*
> 
> Is the TY-143 the consensus best fan for this cooler or is there a 'better' option out there (price not being a factor)?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuVsJaquio*
> 
> Is the TY-143 the consensus best fan for this cooler or is there a 'better' option out there (price not being a factor)?


i was thinking the same, mounting might come into play to limit the options though


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spenceaj*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Only Frozen PC
> 
> 
> 
> damn, and the ty-143 fans are 18$ too, at this price im considering a phanteks
Click to expand...

Fan or cooler?

[/quote]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuVsJaquio*
> 
> Is the TY-143 the consensus best fan for this cooler or is there a 'better' option out there (price not being a factor)?


I guess that depends on what our definition of "better" is.









For the price the only other fan of similar performance is the FHP-141, but it would be problem to mount as it is 38mm thick and fan clips are designed for 25-26mm thick fans.

If price is no object there are Delta, Sanyo and Nidec fans that move more air and are way louder, but doubt there would be much of a cooling improvement. Keep in mind we need similar fan removing the same volume / amount of heated air coming from case as cooler fan is pushing through cooler.


----------



## deepor

This one could beat it: http://www.amazon.com/Silverstone-Tek-Computer-Cooling-FHP-141/dp/B00A460TK6

It's 38mm thick, 2000 RPM, also 140mm size.

You could also buy something like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835213006

It's 120mm, but it runs at 4000 RPM, it's industrial. You can't use it on a motherboard header. That should have a 1A limit, but the fan is 1.45A, so something on the board might burn up when it starts up the fan.


----------



## spenceaj

cooler


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spenceaj*
> 
> cooler


Thermalright Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme is amazon for $90.00
http://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-Silver-Arrow-IB-E-Extreme/dp/B00IYS6RF2/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1403902691&sr=1-1&keywords=thermalright+silver+arrow+ib-e


----------



## spenceaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Thermalright Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme is amazon for $90.00
> http://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-Silver-Arrow-IB-E-Extreme/dp/B00IYS6RF2/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1403902691&sr=1-1&keywords=thermalright+silver+arrow+ib-e


at 90 im thinking an h100i would be my choice jsut based off cooling power but i dont really want to go liquid, i was hoping to stay in the the 60 range, i can get the phanteks for 65 or i can wait and use stock ts 140 power for 55 when they get it in stock in early july


----------



## doyll

Reason I suggest Silver Arrow IBE Extreme instead of Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme is because of it's offset design and better RAM clearance.
Silver Arrow IB-E is 68mm from center of CPU to PCI-E side of cooler. That is 9mm less than Silver SB-E


Silver Arrow SB-E is 77mm from center of CPU to PCI-E side of cooler


----------



## spenceaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Reason I suggest Silver Arrow IBE Extreme instead of Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme is because of it's offset design and better RAM clearance.
> Silver Arrow IB-E is 68mm from center of CPU to PCI-E side of cooler. That is 9mm less than Silver SB-E
> 
> 
> Silver Arrow SB-E is 77mm from center of CPU to PCI-E side of cooler


i was looking at that and saw the difference but its pretty expensive :/


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spenceaj*
> 
> at 90 im thinking an h100i would be my choice jsut based off cooling power but i dont really want to go liquid, i was hoping to stay in the the 60 range, i can get the phanteks for 65 or i can wait and use stock ts 140 power for 55 when they get it in stock in early july


H100i can't keep up with Silver Arrow SB-E or IB-E Extreme coolers.. can't keep up with any of the top air coolers.
TC14PE is 2c warmer but H100i is 8 times as loud. Drop the H100i to same noise level and it's 7c hotter.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1497595/air-cooling-vs-aio-cooling-system/0_20#post_22463315


----------



## spenceaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> H100i can't keep up with Silver Arrow SB-E or IB-E Extreme coolers.. can't keep up with any of the top air coolers.
> TC14PE is 2c warmer but H100i is 8 times as loud. Drop the H100i to same noise level and it's 7c hotter.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1497595/air-cooling-vs-aio-cooling-system/0_20#post_22463315


wow, didnt know that haha, i guess ill be looking into a tc14pe for 65 or maybe a TS 140P then, that seems to be the best deal i can find, you know of any better coolers i should look into?


----------



## doyll

PH-TC14PE is a very good cooler. Just be sure the one you get has has the F140HP PWM fans. Only way to know is to look at the fan plug. 4-pin is PWM, 3-pin is not. Simple as that. No other way that I know of.


----------



## spenceaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> PH-TC14PE is a very good cooler. Just be sure the one you get has has the F140HP PWM fans. Only way to know is to look at the fan plug. 4-pin is PWM, 3-pin is not. Simple as that. No other way that I know of.


on amazon it says it comes with PWM adapter, would that accomplish the same thing?

Phanteks CPU Cooler with 5 x 8mm Dual Heat-pipes, 140mm Premium Fans and PWM Adaptor, Patented P.A.T.S Coating, PH-TC14PE_BK (Black)

http://www.amazon.com/Phanteks-Heat-pipes-Premium-Patented-PH-TC14PE_BK/dp/B007ZZE63A/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1403907378&sr=1-1

EDIT: Just read up on your comments in http://www.overclock.net/t/1457982/phanteks-ph-tc14pe-my-y-splitter-doesnt-fit-the-pwm-adapter/10, not sure how im gunna find out if its new or not haha


----------



## doyll

The picture they show is of the first generationPH-F140TS not PWM 3-pin fan and cooler.

They switched fans to the first PH-F140HP not PWM.. is 3-pin fan.. over a year ago.
Than later they started coming with PH-F140HP PWM.. is PWM 4-pin fan

Back of PH-F140THP on left, PH-F140TS on right. Second picture is front.
 

The PH-F140HP and PH-F140HP PWM look the same, but one is 3-pin variable voltage and other is 4-pin PWM


----------



## spenceaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> The picture they show is of the first generationPH-F140TS not PWM 3-pin fan and cooler.
> 
> They switched fans to the first PH-F140HP not PWM.. is 3-pin fan.. over a year ago.
> Than later they started coming with PH-F140HP PWM.. is PWM 4-pin fan
> 
> Back of PH-F140THP on left, PH-F140TS on right. Second picture is front.
> 
> 
> The PH-F140HP and PH-F140HP PWM look the same, but one is 3-pin variable voltage and other is 4-pin PWM


Just read up on your comments in http://www.overclock.net/t/1457982/phanteks-ph-tc14pe-my-y-splitter-doesnt-fit-the-pwm-adapter/10, not sure how im gunna find out if its new or not haha looks like im gunna call phanteks, i know that amazon ran out of stock and has a new shipment coming in, wish they specified if the new shipment was actually new, look at the questions on amazon, everyone is saying different things when someone asked it it was 4 pin or 3 pin haha


----------



## spenceaj

Doyll is a saint


----------



## ehume

Best fan for 140mm?

Noctua NF-A14/A15 -- by a little

Second best?

Thermalright TY-14x

They are close. I use a TY-140 on my case, and two NF-A15 PWM's on my Armageddon, FWIW. All three are PWM'd to my CPU signal.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Best fan for 140mm?
> 
> Noctua NF-A14/A15 -- by a little
> 
> Second best?
> 
> Thermalright TY-14x
> 
> They are close. I use a TY-140 on my case, and two NF-A15 PWM's on my Armageddon, FWIW. All three are PWM'd to my CPU signal.


nf-a14's can't go past 1500rpm, so it would lose if you turned noise up


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Best fan for 140mm?
> 
> Noctua NF-A14/A15 -- by a little
> 
> Second best?
> 
> Thermalright TY-14x
> 
> They are close. I use a TY-140 on my case, and two NF-A15 PWM's on my Armageddon, FWIW. All three are PWM'd to my CPU signal.
> 
> 
> 
> nf-a14's can't go past 1500rpm, so it would lose if you turned noise up
Click to expand...

True. But excellence of a fan is the mix between noise and output. I have some of the New Noctua PPC's. When I test them, I will post some results.


----------



## wes1099

NZXT claims that their H440 case has a 180mm cpu cooler clearance, so this cooler should fit right? From where do they measure cpu cooler clearance?


----------



## Booty Warrior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> NZXT claims that their H440 case has a 180mm cpu cooler clearance, so this cooler should fit right? From where do they measure cpu cooler clearance?


I can't imagine it wouldn't. It fits my node just fine, which is officially listed as having 165 mm of clearance for cpu coolers.



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Booty Warrior*
> 
> I can't imagine it wouldn't. It fits my node just fine, which is officially listed as having 165 mm of clearance for cpu coolers.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Looks really nice!









Love the use of TY-147 fans ... are the front TR-9225 BW fans? Where did you get them?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> NZXT claims that their H440 case has a 180mm cpu cooler clearance, so this cooler should fit right? From where do they measure cpu cooler clearance?


CPU clearance is measured from top of CPU to cover.

As long as your RAM is not over 45mm tall the 140mm fan will fit over RAM.

FYI:
CPU surface is 8mm above motherboard.
RAM socket raises RAM 2-3mm.

We add 8mm to the 180mm, than subtract 3mm and 140mm for the fan to find RAM can be 45mm tall.
Or just add 5mm to CPU clearance (180mm) and subtract the fan size (140mm) and we have the maximum height of RAM that will fit under fan.


----------



## Booty Warrior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Looks really nice!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Love the use of TY-147 fans ... are the front TR-9225 BW fans? Where did you get them?


Thanks! And yeah those are the 9225 BWs that come with the new True Spirit 90M Rev.A.

I contacted Thermalright directly via their website and ordered them through Nan's Gaming Gear. IIRC it was ~$16 to get them both, shipped.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Booty Warrior*
> 
> Thanks! And yeah those are the 9225 BWs that come with the new True Spirit 90M Rev.A.
> 
> I contacted Thermalright directly via their website and ordered them through Nan's Gaming Gear. IIRC it was ~$16 to get them both, shipped.


Good work finding and getting them!








$16.00 is a good price for 2 of them. Very nice fans for the price!

Are you controlling them with the PWM signal from CPU fan header?


----------



## Booty Warrior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Good work finding and getting them!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $16.00 is a good price for 2 of them. Very nice fans for the price!


Yeah, it took a bit of digging, but it all worked out in the end. The guys at Thermalright were super accommodating. They've definitely made me a fan.








Quote:


> Are you controlling them with the PWM signal from CPU fan header?


I have the two TY-147s running off the CPU_FAN header (using a Gelid PWM splitter). The front 92mms are hooked up to my other 4-pin headers which use voltage control, I think.


----------



## doyll

Sounds good to me. Assume it's nice and quiet unless you put system under heavy load ... and even than not really loud.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> CPU clearance is measured from top of CPU to cover.
> 
> As long as your RAM is not over 45mm tall the 140mm fan will fit over RAM.
> 
> FYI:
> CPU surface is 8mm above motherboard.
> RAM socket raises RAM 2-3mm.
> 
> We add 8mm to the 180mm, than subtract 3mm and 140mm for the fan to find RAM can be 45mm tall.
> Or just add 5mm to CPU clearance (180mm) and subtract the fan size (140mm) and we have the maximum height of RAM that will fit under fan.


Thanks for the info!


----------



## Booty Warrior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Sounds good to me. Assume it's nice and quiet unless you put system under heavy load ... and even than not really loud.


Most def! The TY-147s idle under 600 RPM and the 92mms shut off completely when they aren't needed, using the "silent" preset in FanXpert (and they're barely even audible when they do spin up ~900RPM).

This is by far the quietest (and smallest!) build I've ever owned. Compared to my old Raven RV03, with those roaring Air Penetrators, the difference is night and day.


----------



## bobsaget

Just received my TS140P from Amazon







! After talking with a very helpful guy from Thermalright support, it seems the mounting system of my hr02 is compatible the ts140P. I won't have to disassemble my whole system








I don't expect much improvement but its definitely less bulky and I'll be able to install a standard 140mm fan at the rear of my case. I don't like the sound of my prolimatech vortex.


----------



## spenceaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget*
> 
> Just received my TS140P from Amazon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ! After talking with a very helpful guy from Thermalright support, it seems the mounting system of my hr02 is compatible the ts140P. I won't have to disassemble my whole system
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't expect much improvement but its definitely less bulky and I'll be able to install a standard 140mm fan at the rear of my case. I don't like the sound of my prolimatech vortex.


nice! i was waiting for one but i wasnt going to hold off my build for one, i contacted thermalright and asked when amazon would have them in stock and they said they shipped out like July 2nd or something and mine STILL shows none available. got a phanteks for 60$, no complaints


----------



## HothTron

How would peeps compare this to say the be quiet! Dark Dark 3 and the Phantek PH-TKC12DX?


----------



## doyll

TRUE Spirit 140 Power has similar cooling and noise levels for Dark Rock 3, TC12DX is a little louder.
I have not tested them against TRUE Spirit 140 Power, but I would expect the TS140P to give better performance cooling extreme overclocking with Dark Rock 3 not far behind.

TRUE Spirit 140 Power . . PH-TC12DX . . . . . Dark Rock 3
6x 8mm heatpipes. . . . . 4x 6mm heat. . . . . 6x 6mm pipes
301.4mm. . . . . . . . . . . 150.8 mm. . . . . . . 226.1mm pipe circumference to fin contact area
45 fins; 3695sq cm . . . . 48x; 3413.8sqcm. . 51 fins; 5286.7sq cm fin surface area
155x107x53mm fin pack . 127x56x118mm . . . 142x73x110mm fin pack
13563 mm contact . . . . 7238.4mm contact . 11530 mm fin contact area to heat pipes
140x26mm 1300rpm . . . 120x25mm 1800rpm . 135x22mm 1400rpm


----------



## HothTron

For the price and seemingly dang good performance it offers, im gonna go with one I think for my new build. Looks like it does pretty good compared to even Corsairs H80i and H100i


----------



## doyll

Corsair H80i & H100i only cool as good as top air at full fan speed .. and running like that they are several times as loud as ai. Slow them down so they are same volume as air coolers and they are 5-8c warmer.


----------



## HothTron

It was tempting to try water cooling again after my custom Danger Den kit back in 2002, but i'm just older and prefer simplicity and less crap to break in my rigs nowadays.


----------



## Phantasia

Got the 140 Power a few days ago, running as silent on my Z87 Extreme4 and I can't hear it at all.

Replaced the stock intel cooler and basically top temps go to 60 on silent. While stock intel went over 70 on full blast...

This cooler was a bit chaotic to install, the typical mount mechanism for the fan is a nightmare to install after the cooler is in place...  But managed to get over it in the end.


----------



## HothTron

Do the anti vibration pads seem decent enough?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HothTron*
> 
> It was tempting to try water cooling again after my custom Danger Den kit back in 2002, but i'm just older and prefer simplicity and less crap to break in my rigs nowadays.


KISS principle is always best.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phantasia*
> 
> Got the 140 Power a few days ago, running as silent on my Z87 Extreme4 and I can't hear it at all.
> Replaced the stock intel cooler and basically top temps go to 60 on silent. While stock intel went over 70 on full blast...
> 
> This cooler was a bit chaotic to install, the typical mount mechanism for the fan is a nightmare to install after the cooler is in place...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But managed to get over it in the end.


Glad you are happy with it. I don't know of anything significantly better and definitely not at a similar price.








Yeah, the fan clips need to be installed onto cooler before cooler is installed to motherboard. I post it often, but guess not often enough. Sorry.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HothTron*
> 
> Do the anti vibration pads seem decent enough?


I didn't use them on mine and don't have any vibration or noise.


----------



## HothTron

Huh? How can you not install clips after install? I need pics of this


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HothTron*
> 
> Huh? How can you not install clips after install? I need pics of this


Clips go into holes in cooler's fin pack. Installing clips onto cooler before installing cooler makes it easier to get them into the holes in bottom of cooler.









TRUE Spirit 140 Power fan clips .. TRUE Spirit 140 fan clips installed with fan mounted.
Install fan clips on cooler before installing cooler.


----------



## HothTron

Its a real bummer it doesn't use a mounting system like the Dark Knights with simple silicon grommets for antivibration and ease of installation


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HothTron*
> 
> Its a real bummer it doesn't use a mounting system like the Dark Knights with simple silicon grommets for antivibration and ease of installation


I've heard many users have problems with the silicon mounts breaking when they take the fan off.


----------



## HothTron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I've heard many users have problems with the silicon mounts breaking when they take the fan off.


Huh...i've taken mine off several times over the years with no issues, you just have to not be a nimrod and not slice them with the fin edges


----------



## spenceaj

seems like rubber strips and clips are more reliable and accomplish the same thing


----------



## Phantasia

doyll

I didn't mean to imply that it would be your fault at all!

I actually mounted the cooler with the clips on as it looked as the best way to move forward for me...

The problem was fixing the fan with the clips, while the rubber mounts where coming out of the way, and the clips came out while attaching the fan etc. But in the end I managed to get it done.

Is there any kind of fan accessory as with the 120 Ultra Extreme? That allows to fix the fan without the clips? Now that would be the best of everything!


----------



## doyll

There is nothing like that for these other coolers. After a few fan mountings I got ti down so it's no problem any more. It's funny how some of the different kinds of clips can be a real bear to get fan mounted with the first few times are now the ones I like the best. The older style Thermalright took some getting used to but I like them now. Phanteks and Cryorig are super easy to use .. as are be quiet!, but Noctua sometimes give me problems. Guess it's all about holding our mouth the right way, while winking and tapping our feet three times.


----------



## cyper.bg

Guys, do you know if there is a way to attach Gentle Typhoon 1850rpm on this cooler?
And do you think these will be better than the stock fan, even though they are 120mm?


----------



## bobsaget

You can put a GT 120mm on the TS140p

http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=269339

Idk if it will be better than the stock fan. Probably at full speed.


----------



## cyper.bg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget*
> 
> You can put a GT 120mm on the TS140p
> 
> http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=269339
> 
> Idk if it will be better than the stock fan. Probably at full speed.


So with rubber bands?


----------



## doyll

As Bob said, TRUE Spirit 140 Power performance will be very similar with either fan setup. Lenny's tests with TY-143 at 1200rpm are similar to running stock TY-147 fan.


----------



## bobsaget

Should fit with the included clips since the stock fan has a 120mm frame


----------



## doyll

The included fan clips clip on inside of of fan. GTs have a brace between the two sides of fan so the hole is not available for fan clips to go into.


----------



## cyper.bg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> The included fan clips clip on inside of of fan. GTs have a brace between the two sides of fan so the hole is not available for fan clips to go into.


Well it clips, but it doesn't stay:


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cyper.bg*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> The included fan clips clip on inside of of fan. GTs have a brace between the two sides of fan so the hole is not available for fan clips to go into.
> 
> 
> 
> Well it clips, but it doesn't stay:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
Click to expand...

If they "clipped" they would stay.









Do this:

ehume did a tutorial about it for mounting on NH-D14
http://www.overclock.net/t/944527/adapting-gentle-typhoons-and-other-fans-for-the-d14-56k-warning/0_20


----------



## bobsaget

Hey,

Thermalright released a new version of the original TS140.

http://www.techpowerup.com/207651/thermalright-announces-true-spirit-140-bw-rev-a-cpu-cooler.html

I really don't understand what this one is aiming at. Same pricing than the TS140 power but 6mm heat-pipes, so less performance to be expected.

*** thermalright?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget*
> 
> Hey,
> Thermalright released a new version of the original TS140.
> 
> I really don't understand what this one is aiming at. Same pricing than the TS140 power but 6mm heat-pipes, so less performance to be expected.
> 
> *** thermalright?


New TRUE Spirit 140 BW Rev.A is 6mm shorter and 8.5mm better PCIe clearance with offset base (69mm vs 77.5mm center CPU toward PCIe socket). Performance varies depending on how hot CPU is, but it probably closer than you think.









The updated TY-147 A fan idles at 300rpm with a different RPM curve.

More info in TRUE Spirit 140 BW Rev.A thread
http://www.overclock.net/t/1525831/true-spirit-140-bw-rev-a-shorter-offset-for-better-pcie-case-clearance/0_20


----------



## Civicer

Hey all, guess i'm joining the club. Finally got to build my upgraded machine and retire my old Xigamatek Dark Knight i've used since 2008 on my E8500 Wolfsdale. She's been a good cooler and defintently got my moneys worth out of it. But I figured it was time to retire her after going the 4790k route and after a lot of research, I went for the 140 Power. Here's my several hour story Sat night installing this big, bold and somewhat frustratin beast

*
Man, that is a lot of crap to just mount a HSF
*









*Yeah, i'd say thats an upgrade. Who needs watercooling anyway?
*









*
Lol, seriously Intel? I don't think so...*










*I figured it was also time to retire my 10 year usage of Arctic Silver for something better, or at least everyone says that*










*I hate having OCD, it took me several tries and wasting A LOT of Gelid paste to get it just right, what a pain....*










*
Wow, this thing was a chore with that mounting pressure plate that kept moving as I screwed it down. The vibration pads are so flimsy and I had to trim them to keep from blocking airflow cause they were so big and my God Thermaltake, these fan clips suuuuuuuuuck!! I spent at least 2 hours trying to get this thing just right, and I finally manged it to how I wanted it at about 2 A.M. in morning*


----------



## doyll

Looks really nice!









Thermalright, Thermalright,Thermalright, Thermalright,Thermalright, Thermalright .... not thermaltake.










Little late now, but the fan clips need to be installed on cooler before installing cooler. I also recommend always doing a "practice" cooler install to become familiar with getting cooler positioned and screws started properly.









Thermalright new black / red fan would look really good with your motherboard. The TY-149 is also 300-1300rpm, but slightly different blades with slightly steeper pitch. This added static pressure, but lowered airflow spec to 62cfm. The added pressure actually gives 1c better cooling. This is a good example of how fan specs can be misleading. The 62cfm vs 74cfm looks like less performance, but the added pressure changes the P/Q curve resulting in more air is moving through cooler.


----------



## Civicer

Eh, that would be to much red for my taste honestly. I have a hard time also believing that a static pressure could make up for a CFM reduction.

I am concerned with my OCD that I put to much thermal paste on AGAIN and I need to redo it. My 4790k temps are at 29-31 idle and hover around the 60c mark depending on the load. Prime 95 makes temps shoot to 90c and people say it's not not good to use on the new Haswells. What are your thoughts? Have you done testing with adding a secondary fan on one of these?


----------



## doyll

It does look good the way it is. Red fan shouldn't make much difference when looking into case through window. Would just be all black/red instead of black/white & red.

I need to get some for my Rampage III Extreme build. The reason the TY-149 has red fan is match Asus black/red motherboards like ours


----------



## pstack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Civicer*
> 
> I am concerned with my OCD that I put to much thermal paste on AGAIN and I need to redo it. My 4790k temps are at 29-31 idle and hover around the 60c mark depending on the load. Prime 95 makes temps shoot to 90c and people say it's not not good to use on the new Haswells. What are your thoughts? Have you done testing with adding a secondary fan on one of these?


I'd tend to want to fight the OCD, unless given evidence of a problem -- which it sounds like you may have in your case, if I recall the 4790k thermal limits. I haven't used Gelid but understand it's fairly viscous. Without personal experience, I can't say authoritatively if that is too much in your photo, but if it were like Noctua or Prolimatech-1, I would say that's a lot (I stick with the small center dab of rice method).

Anyway, I am grateful for your photos. I have been searching all over the place for dimensions on space available for coolers on the VII Hero or a VII Hero compatibility list or a Thermalright compatibility list for boards, or someone confirming that they'd installed theirs without any problems whatsoever (specifically where invading the PCIE space is concerned). You are the first person I have found with photos of the damn thing! I even emailed Thermalright and have yet to get a response.

I am literally hovering over the buy button, right now. Can you confirm if you have any problems with your GPU in that first slot? I'm sticking two EVGA GTX 690 FTW+ with the backplate GPUs in mine and am worried that cooler is going to interfere... Even if it appears to fit, I'm worried once it is hanging from the motherboard, it might start to weigh down on the GPU in the first slot.

Would love to know if you can confirm things are okay, before I pull the trigger!


----------



## pstack

Also, if this cooler is a really tight or overbearing fit for the first PCIe slot, I suppose I could always go with the Thermalright True Spirit 140 BW Rev. A as long as I don't come down with some weird OCD of my own over it being offset.


----------



## doyll

You shouldn't have any problems. The 1st GPU PCIe socket is the 2nd socket on the motherboard.


----------



## pstack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> You shouldn't have any problems. The 1st GPU PCIe socket is the 2nd socket on the motherboard.


You are a gentleman and a scholar. I could not for the life of me dig up any such image.

I'd completely forgotten that the ASUS P8Z77-WS had the first slot as the first GPU slot, which was why it was such a hassle.

Given the option of this or the Thermalright True Spirit 140 BW Rev. A, what would you advise? I've seen conflicting discussions and measurements comparing the 6mm versus 8mm pipes in the different versions and I'm not particularly married to either cooler. As long as both cool about the same, I'd tend to go for the one that would be comfortable to work with space-wise (for routing, installing and uninstalling cards, etc).

If I'm going SLI and then set the other slots to x1 instead of x4, do you know if you can then use any of the PCIex1 slots or are you limited to only the bottom one? (I read the manual, but remained uncertain). If you can, then I think it might be better for me to choose the offset Thermalright, so that I can have the option of placing the sound card in the very first slot -- butting it up against the backplate of one of the GPUs instead of butting it up against the fan-intakes of the second GPU.

Again, thanks for the image. That is exactly what I've been trying to find all day and night!


----------



## doyll

All I did was dl the image and scale the measurements onto it.









As for which cooler to get, both are very good.
Only a few miner differences..

TRUE Spirit 140 Power is better if used with an extreme fan like TY-143 but with stock fan only 1-2c better than Rev. A
TRUE Spirit 140 Rev. A has better clearances for possible future uses and comes with TY-147 A fan which idles down to 300rpm rather than 700rpm for TY-147.
TRUE Spirit 140 Power is chrome nickel while TRUE Spirit 140 Rev. A is black nickel plated, but both have black top plates.


----------



## pstack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> All I did was dl the image and scale the measurements onto it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for which cooler to get, both are very good.
> Only a few miner differences..
> 
> TRUE Spirit 140 Power is better if used with an extreme fan like TY-143 but with stock fan only 1-2c better than Rev. A
> TRUE Spirit 140 Rev. A has better clearances for possible future uses and comes with TY-147 A fan which idles down to 300rpm rather than 700rpm for TY-147.
> TRUE Spirit 140 Power is chrome nickel while TRUE Spirit 140 Rev. A is black nickel plated, but both have black top plates.


I prefer stability and performance with aesthetics somewhere at the bottom of the list, so I think opting over to the Rev A sounds like a fantastic alternative to choose, here. Even though I have an unused D14 sitting in my den, I'm looking more forward to dealing with this cooler than that behemoth!

And now I'm on to the final choice of this build (an unexpected build that only occurred because my younger brother's last hand-me-down rig finally ran into PSU problems that may have toasted one of his DIMM banks and I'm looking to hand down this SLI 670 3770k machine to him) -- the chassis. So off to investigate that Enthoo Primo in your signature. (It has been a consideration since the beginning as I'm not looking to replicate another build with something quite the size of my current Cosmos II barge).

Thanks to both of you guys for helping me arrive at this cooler decision. You've been quite informative!


----------



## Civicer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> [*] TRUE Spirit 140 Power is chrome nickel while TRUE Spirit 140 Rev. A is black nickel plated, but both have black top plates.
> [/LIST]


Huh? Its clearly not black plated

http://www.thermalright.com/html/products/cpu_cooler/true_spirit_140_bw_reva.html

And yes, the non A version will not block the PCI-E 16x slot but it will make the first PCI-E 4x rendered useless unless you get the A version. It will basically be up to you if you want to be able to utilize that first PCI-E 4x slot or not.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> 
> TRUE Spirit 140 Power is better if used with an extreme fan like TY-143 but with stock fan only 1-2c better than Rev. A


Errrr, yeah but

1. Orange looks horrid

2. The noise would be even worse

Have you attempted/tested with a second fan attached on these?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Civicer*
> 
> Huh? Its clearly not black plated
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.thermalright.com/html/products/cpu_cooler/true_spirit_140_bw_reva.html
> 
> 
> 
> And yes, the non A version will not block the PCI-E 16x slot but it will make the first PCI-E 4x rendered useless unless you get the A version. It will basically be up to you if you want to be able to utilize that first PCI-E 4x slot or not.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Errrr, yeah but
> 
> 1. Orange looks horrid
> 
> 2. The noise would be even worse
> 
> Have you attempted/tested with a second fan attached on these?


My bad. Was thinking of Macho Zero








It has Nickeled black heat-sink body topped with anodized black fin.

1. Don't look at it.
2. Same noise at same rpm as TY-147
3. Nope, but mate did with TY-143


Edit: TRUE Spirit 140 rev. A is 69mm center CPU toward PCIe socket. Side of socket is Approx 64mm, so I don't think the 1st socket can be used with either cooler .. unless it s short 4x PCIe card.


----------



## Civicer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> 
> TRUE Spirit 140 Power is better if used with an extreme fan like TY-143 but with stock fan only 1-2c better than Rev. A


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> My bad. Was thinking of Macho Zero
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has Nickeled black heat-sink body topped with anodized black fin.
> 
> 1. Don't look at it.
> 2. Same noise at same rpm as TY-147
> 3. Nope, but mate did with TY-143
> 
> 
> Edit: TRUE Spirit 140 rev. A is 69mm center CPU toward PCIe socket. Side of socket is Approx 64mm, so I don't think the 1st socket can be used with either cooler .. unless it s short 4x PCIe card.


Uh, yeah, I will be looking at it with my open case panel window, so no orange fan. If the Ty 147 goes to 2500 RPM, then my PWM fan curve is gonna go even higher on load speeds which means more noise unless i'm missing something.

Do you have a link for those tests somewhere? I'm having trouble deciphering that graph


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Civicer*
> 
> Uh, yeah, I will be looking at it with my open case panel window, so no orange fan. If the Ty 147 goes to 2500 RPM, then my PWM fan curve is gonna go even higher on load speeds which means more noise unless i'm missing something.
> 
> Do you have a link for those tests somewhere? I'm having trouble deciphering that graph


TY-147 is 700-1300rpm. Only the Ty-143 goes to 2500rpm.

You can adjust the percent of PWM signal to temperature.
The 700-1300rpm TY-147 fan curve is set 35% @30c = 700rpm, 60% @ 50c = 1000rpm & 100% @70c = 1300rpm, than the 700-2500rpm TY-143 fan curve would be 30% @30c = 700rp0m, 38% @ 50c = 1000rpm & 100% @ 70c = 2500rpm.


Link is in bottom left of graph. Enter it with your keyboard.


----------



## Civicer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> TY-147 is 700-1300rpm. Only the Ty-143 goes to 2500rpm.
> 
> You can adjust the percent of PWM signal to temperature.
> The 700-1300rpm TY-147 fan curve is set 35% @30c = 700rpm, 60% @ 50c = 1000rpm & 100% @70c = 1300rpm, than the 700-2500rpm TY-143 fan curve would be 30% @30c = 700rp0m, 38% @ 50c = 1000rpm & 100% @ 70c = 2500rpm.


Ah gotcha now. Yeah, the fan is loud even at 1300rpm for the TY-147 so the TY-143 would be too loud for my subjective taste despite it cooling better


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Civicer*
> 
> Ah gotcha now. Yeah, the fan is loud even at 1300rpm for the TY-147 so the TY-143 would be too loud for my subjective taste despite it cooling better


"Loud" is relative. Most people consider 40dBA to be the loudest acceptable level. 35dBA is about my limit in normal use.

How fast fans run is a combination of fans specs and control setting.

But as you don't like orange it's moot.


----------



## Civicer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pstack*
> 
> Also, if this cooler is a really tight or overbearing fit for the first PCIe slot, I suppose I could always go with the Thermalright True Spirit 140 BW Rev. A as long as I don't come down with some weird OCD of my own over it being offset.


Heres the spacing with the original version on my mobo.


----------



## pstack

Well, the Thermalright True Spirit 140 BW Rev.a wasn't a better solution, it seems. It does block the first slot (not the first GPU slot, but still). More importantly, the fan jams against the first DIMM slot. I verified that my memory ( G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3 2133 (PC3 17000) F3-17000CL9Q-16GBZH ) should fit -- but I made the assumption that the lowest point of the kit would be the measurement to the first fin on the heatsink... not realizing how far below that fin the fan sits. This isn't low-profile memory, but it's not huge, either.

Three questions to throw out there:

1. How concerned should I be with it pushing against the side of the first DIMM? It pushes it enough that if you remove the fan, you can see the DIMM move a little bit back into place, but if you looked directly at it, you wouldn't see that the gap between the first and second DIMM were any tighter than that between the second and third or third and fourth.

2. How much efficiency is being lost if I move the fan to the other side, so it's pull, instead of push? (I have not found any actual data on this, so far).

3. Is there a really good (quiet/efficient) thinner 140mm fan that I could use in place of the one that comes with this heatsink which would still fit the clamps?

Thanks for any input. Never had a build without at least one hangup.


----------



## doyll

From what you said it sounds like fan is touching with just enough pressure to make RAM move. Sounds like an non-issue to me.

:Using the fan as pull instead of push will give very similar performance. Maybe 1c less.

Not really any thinner fans that are as good.


----------



## invincibler

I'm getting really really high temps with this cooler. Running on 5820k [email protected] When I run prime95 v28.5 temps shoot up to 103 and throttles. When I run RealBench, it hovers around 70-75 degrees.

Should temps be this high given those figures?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *invincibler*
> 
> I'm getting really really high temps with this cooler. Running on 5820k [email protected] When I run prime95 v28.5 temps shoot up to 103 and throttles. When I run RealBench, it hovers around 70-75 degrees.
> 
> Should temps be this high given those figures?


With the silicon lottery being what it is, it is quite possible the CPU is the limitation here.

Is the voltage reading while running Prime? I've been told newer versions of Prime use AVX2 instruction sets, which add even more voltage than your setting. But I canot personally verified this as I don't have a 5820 or similar.


----------



## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *invincibler*
> 
> I'm getting really really high temps with this cooler. Running on 5820k [email protected] When I run prime95 v28.5 temps shoot up to 103 and throttles. When I run RealBench, it hovers around 70-75 degrees.
> 
> Should temps be this high given those figures?


prime95 28.5 is a poor measure of temps. In the haswell guide it explains it.

I am using a full custom loop and even on stock voltage that version of Prime95 can send my 4790k into the 90s instantly.

Try using x264 encoder as a measure. It is much more like a an actual system load.

You could also try running prime 27.5.

If you must run 28.5 you can turn off avx2.0 and fc4 and the temps will improve by 20c.

Also when running prime you can choose custom and set 1344-1344 and xxxxmb (80% of system ram amount = xxxx). It will also run much cooler.

The stress testing portion of the haswell guide has this links and info needed to stress haswell without going to 100c.

haswell oc gude


----------



## doyll

What Wirerat said.









I use Handbrake set to full load for "real world use" load testing. Sometimes I'll run 2 applications at once. Load is constant 100% on all cores for as long as encode lasts.


----------



## Cyro999

Handbrake uses x264, the standalone x264 test is marginally better (just because of a few encoding parameters, an included file of good resolution, letting you set threads etc for maximum CPU load which allow you to average >99% load on all cores for hours, but >99.9% load on the max thread load reported by hwinfo)

overall though pretty much the same. I'd recommend using the standalone x264 test with manually updated x264 just for consistency, using 4 threads per hyperthreaded core or 2 threads per core (so 8 threads on 4690k, 16 on 4790k, 24 on 5820k/5930k, 32 on 5960x) and passing a whole bunch of runs with that (like 20) before adding a bit of vcore and input voltage (~0.02 and ~0.05v is a good amount IMO) for a solid and stable system.

Prime95 28.5 large fft (size 1344-1344 for example) is one of the hardest checks for vcore that there is, though.

One thing that you must realize with Haswell, is that some tests that run at 60c require more vcore to pass than tests that run at 90c on the same voltage. There's a huge variance in power consumption - the FPU heavy tests will happily draw like 1.8x more power than video encoding with 100% CPU load, but large FFT will not, even though it's harder to pass.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Handbrake uses x264, the standalone x264 test is marginally better (just because of a few encoding parameters, an included file of good resolution, letting you set threads etc for maximum CPU load which allow you to average >99% load on all cores for hours, but >99.9% load on the max thread load reported by hwinfo)
> 
> overall though pretty much the same. I'd recommend using the standalone x264 test with manually updated x264 just for consistency,
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> using 4 threads per hyperthreaded core or 2 threads per core (so 8 threads on 4690k, 16 on 4790k, 24 on 5820k/5930k, 32 on 5960x) and passing a whole bunch of runs with that (like 20) before adding a bit of vcore and input voltage (~0.02 and ~0.05v is a good amount IMO) for a solid and stable system.
> 
> Prime95 28.5 large fft (size 1344-1344 for example) is one of the hardest checks for vcore that there is, though.
> 
> One thing that you must realize with Haswell, is that some tests that run at 60c require more vcore to pass than tests that run at 90c on the same voltage. There's a huge variance in power consumption - the FPU heavy tests will happily draw like 1.8x more power than video encoding with 100% CPU load, but large FFT will not, even though it's harder to pass.


Good info.








+ rep
I'll switch to standalone x264 test. Which one do you recommend?
x264 HD Benchmark ?


----------



## Wirerat

I still use the modified one in the stressing section of http://www.overclock.net/t/1411077/haswell-overclocking-guide-with-statistics/0_50


----------



## Cyro999

^Yes that one's best.

Manually updating the x264 encoder to newest one of these - http://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/x264/binaries/win64/ renamed to x264-64 and replacing the one in the folder


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *invincibler*
> 
> I'm getting really really high temps with this cooler. Running on 5820k [email protected] When I run prime95 v28.5 temps shoot up to 103 and throttles. When I run RealBench, it hovers around 70-75 degrees.
> 
> Should temps be this high given those figures?


You shouldn't have that problem, X99 cpus are very easy to cool because of the soldered IHS. Does the heatsink exhaust hot air? is is too hot to touch?


----------



## invincibler

http://www.hardwareluxx.com/index.php/reviews/hardware/cpu/33127-oc-guide-bringing-haswell-e-to-its-limits.html?start=5

This is the most comprehensive post regarding Haswell-E overclocking I've seen anywhere.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloppy007*
> 
> You shouldn't have that problem, X99 cpus are very easy to cool because of the soldered IHS. Does the heatsink exhaust hot air? is is too hot to touch?


Yeah, I reseated it and now it's running at around 97oC at 1.25V, which is more inline with my expectations.


----------



## doyll

Still quite hot, but than it is pushing pretty hard. What fan/s do you have on TRUE Spirit 140 Power?


----------



## invincibler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Still quite hot, but than it is pushing pretty hard. What fan/s do you have on TRUE Spirit 140 Power?


Currently using a TY-143.


----------



## doyll

That's about as good as it gets. 2x TY-143 will gain you a couple of degrees, but that's all.

As long as CPU stays below 70c in daily use you are fine.


----------



## RyuVsJaquio

Doyll,

Considering you have experience using both, which do you think would perform better:

A Macho Zero with air duct and TY-143 pushing air

or

A True Spirit 140 Power with a TY-143 pushing air?

With the recent numbers I have seen regarding the Macho Zero, it would seem that using that particular setup should garner impressive results.

Any thoughts?


----------



## doyll

Wow! That is a hard one to answer.
There are several variables involved.
120mm or 140mm exhaust fan duct?
What is case exhaust fan?
Is air temp going into coolers the same on both?
I have not tested them for this kind of comparison so it's mostly a guess .. and my guess is the TRUE Spirit 140 Power is probably a little better because it has 8mm pipes.
But the Macho Zero / Rev.B has more fin area...

TRUE Spirit 140 is not designed to be super quiet (although it is) or to be used passive / semi-passive while Macho is designed for this. I don't know how Macho will perform with high airflow. That is really the unknown here.

Nikktech tested both, but their results are all over the place.
3930k @ 4.0GHz

Honestly, I think TRUE Spirit 140 Power (or new TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A) and Macho Zero / Macho rev.B (same cooler) are all very close in ability.

If I get a chance, I'll try the Macho with TY-143 fan and see how it does.
Macho Rev. B 56.6c, Macho Zero 57.3c TRUE Spirit 140 Power 63.8c, R1 Ultimate 68.9c, and NH-D14 2011 60.6c.

Some coolers respond better with high performance fans. Mate's testing of TRUE Spirit 140 Power against NH-D14 with TY-143 fans showed TS140P responded much better than NH-D14 Results with TRUE Spirit 140 Power were much better than NH-D14. With stock fans they are less than a degree apart. Long story short, I don't trust their results.


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *invincibler*
> 
> http://www.hardwareluxx.com/index.php/reviews/hardware/cpu/33127-oc-guide-bringing-haswell-e-to-its-limits.html?start=5
> 
> This is the most comprehensive post regarding Haswell-E overclocking I've seen anywhere.
> Yeah, I reseated it and now it's running at around 97oC at 1.25V, which is more inline with my expectations.


What were the temps at stock? I haven't gone past 40 with my custom LC, or 45 with a 360 rad (running IBT).


----------



## invincibler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloppy007*
> 
> What were the temps at stock? I haven't gone past 40 with my custom LC, or 45 with a 360 rad (running IBT).


Temps at stock (fans maxed):
Idle: 42 on hottest cores. Package temp 37.
Prime95 28.5: 66 on hottest cores. Package temp 57.

Temps at [email protected] (fans maxed):
Idle: 41 hottest cores. Package temp 40.
Prime95 28.5: 97 hottest core. Package temp 96.

I think it's just prime95 being unreasonable. I've heard people with H100i also getting 95 degrees when overclocked with prime95.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *invincibler*
> 
> Temps at stock (fans maxed):
> Idle: 42 on hottest cores. Package temp 37.
> Prime95 28.5: 66 on hottest cores. Package temp 57.
> 
> Temps at [email protected] (fans maxed):
> Idle: 41 hottest cores. Package temp 40.
> Prime95 28.5: 97 hottest core. Package temp 96.
> 
> I think it's just prime95 being unreasonable. I've heard people with H100i also getting 95 degrees when overclocked with prime95.


It's like this:

There's new AVX2 instructions on Haswell CPUs. Those can do a lot more work. You'll see this in IBT if you look at the GFlops column: the numbers are a lot higher. The increased performance isn't free, the temperature goes through the roof.

The version of prime95 you are using is also using AVX2. You can look around for an older version of prime95. I think v27.9 doesn't use the Haswell stuff, will only use the AVX from Ivy Bridge, so that's what you could use to compare with Ivy Bridge CPU temperatures.

If you look at the Haswell overclocking threads, you'll see that people use other software for stress testing. To realistically test things, there's an x264 video encoding benchmark. That one also uses AVX2 instructions, but it does that for useful work (the video encoding). This will be the highest temperatures you'll ever see in normal programs so that's the best test for your cooling setup.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *invincibler*
> 
> Temps at stock (fans maxed):
> Idle: 42 on hottest cores. Package temp 37.
> Prime95 28.5: 66 on hottest cores. Package temp 57.
> 
> Temps at [email protected] (fans maxed):
> Idle: 41 hottest cores. Package temp 40.
> Prime95 28.5: 97 hottest core. Package temp 96.
> 
> I think it's just prime95 being unreasonable. I've heard people with H100i also getting 95 degrees when overclocked with prime95.


What Deepor said.
I'm not familiar with your CPU, but idle temps seem high. H100i is only marginally better if better at all than TRUE Spirit 140 Power. TS140P is probably much better with TY-143 fan.
What is the cooler intake air temp?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloppy007*
> 
> You shouldn't have that problem, X99 cpus are very easy to cool because of the soldered IHS. Does the heatsink exhaust hot air? is is too hot to touch?


It's normal to see a ~30c or even greater temperature difference between most 100% CPU loads like video encoding, vs the hottest synthetics. Those synthetics draw ~1.5 - 2x more power, which means ~1.5-2x more heat output at the same voltages.

Video encoding with 1.4vcore or running linpack with 1.15vcore could give you identical power usage, heat output and temperatures for example.


----------



## invincibler

So I'm using an Enthoo Pro case with the PE and I've been wondering.

Is it better to have the cooler blow air out the back vent, or is it better to have the back vent be an intake as well, and have exhausts at the top?

Anyone have experience with this?


----------



## doyll

Generally the area behind the case is warmer than room air. This is because the PSU, GPU, etc are exhausting heated air out the back of case. Therefore it is generally best to not use the back vents for intakes.


----------



## Ur64n 50ulj4h

Hi doyll, I'm a bit of a noob at all this







, especially compared to a guru of your significantly greater knowledge







, so I'm hoping you can help.
I've read through the whole thread, including your very useful and extensively detailed OP and I'm sure I'm not the first in saying that your efforts are appreciated.
I will be ugrading my case to a Fractal R5 sometime in the near future, and I'm considering replacing my be Quiet Shadow Rock Slim (purchased not realising my preference of vertical orientation is not an option for AMD boards & this cooler







) with the Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power, based on mainly yours and other reviews.
For my needs, silence is optimum, however, I would like to see if I could get my FX8350 up to 4.7GHz with said cooler. What are your thoughts?
Also, would x2 140mm front intake fans, and x1 rear 140mm exhaust fan provide adequate airflow, with the middle drive cage removed on the R5, in your esteemed opinion and which case fans would you recommend in said set-up, with silence (especially when not doing extensive tasks) as a consideration.
My basic specs are - Asus Sabretooth 990FX REV 2.0, FX 8350, AMD RADEON Gamer series @ 2133Mhz, Sandisk Extreme Pro 240GB SSD (OS), Samsung Evo 250GB SSD (games etc), be Quiet Dark Power 750w PSU.
Any help or suggestions you can offer will be greatly appreciated.








Thanks in advance


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ur64n 50ulj4h*
> 
> Hi doyll, I'm a bit of a noob at all this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , especially compared to a guru of your significantly greater knowledge
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , so I'm hoping you can help.
> I've read through the whole thread, including your very useful and extensively detailed OP and I'm sure I'm not the first in saying that your efforts are appreciated.
> I will be ugrading my case to a Fractal R5 sometime in the near future, and I'm considering replacing my be Quiet Shadow Rock Slim (purchased not realising my preference of vertical orientation is not an option for AMD boards & this cooler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) with the Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power, based on mainly yours and other reviews.
> For my needs, silence is optimum, however, I would like to see if I could get my FX8350 up to 4.7GHz with said cooler. What are your thoughts?
> Also, would x2 140mm front intake fans, and x1 rear 140mm exhaust fan provide adequate airflow, with the middle drive cage removed on the R5, in your esteemed opinion and which case fans would you recommend in said set-up, with silence (especially when not doing extensive tasks) as a consideration.
> My basic specs are - Asus Sabretooth 990FX REV 2.0, FX 8350, AMD RADEON Gamer series @ 2133Mhz, Sandisk Extreme Pro 240GB SSD (OS), Samsung Evo 250GB SSD (games etc), be Quiet Dark Power 750w PSU.
> Any help or suggestions you can offer will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance


First thing I suggest is look at 'Ways to better cooling ..' thread.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/0_20

I've not ran the TRUE Spirit 140 Power or TRUE Spirit 140 rev. A on an AMD so can't say for sure, but either one should do quite well. Only advantages the TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A has is it's shorter (no a problem in Define R5) and offset reducing the distance center CPU toward PCIe sockets from 77.5mm to 69mm (also not a problem with your motherboard.

Center of CPU toward RAM slots on your motherboard is about 50mm and without knowing your RAM height I cannot verify is if your RAM will not be a problem or not.







TRUE Spirit 140 Power has room for 49mm RAM while TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A is 42mm.

Neither are king of the hill, but they are still on top with the rest of the best..


----------



## Ur64n 50ulj4h

Thanks for your response.








With regards the case fans, x2 140mm front intake & x1 140mm exhaust would be enough for positive airflow? Or should I add a 140mm intake from floor of case? Would you recommend the Thermalright fans over Fractals latest offering?


----------



## invincibler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ur64n 50ulj4h*
> 
> Thanks for your response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With regards the case fans, x2 140mm front intake & x1 140mm exhaust would be enough for positive airflow? Or should I add a 140mm intake from floor of case? Would you recommend the Thermalright fans over Fractals latest offering?


I'd say if you can, get all TY-143 and run them at around 1300RPM for normal use, with a fan profile for max RPM when things get tough.

Bottom intake is fine, and I'd recommend getting 1 or 2 of the top slots as intake, and the slot nearest to the back as exhaust, then get some cardboard and block between the exhaust/intake ones. The reason being that the top intakes will feed fresh cool air directly to the CPU cooler and the fan, and having 2 fans as back exhausts help remove the hot air faster.

Though all this is theory, and I still need to find a thermostat to check it over.


----------



## Ur64n 50ulj4h

Thanks for your input guys


----------



## doyll

I have not used the new Fractal Design fans so can't say what their performance is. The Thermalright fans will not fit without modifying them to be square. I use PWM case fans and control them wiht CPU and GPU PWM fan signals so they automatically cycle from idle to speed the same way cooler fans do. My old Define R2 is modified with bottom and back grills removed, with front behind door refitted for modified TY-140 fans.

I'll see if I can find some images of it and post them in the "Ways to better cooling" thread.
Edit: Pics posted


----------



## Ur64n 50ulj4h

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *invincibler*
> 
> I'd say if you can, get all TY-143 and run them at around 1300RPM for normal use, with a fan profile for max RPM when things get tough.
> 
> Bottom intake is fine, and I'd recommend getting 1 or 2 of the top slots as intake, and the slot nearest to the back as exhaust, then get some cardboard and block between the exhaust/intake ones. The reason being that the top intakes will feed fresh cool air directly to the CPU cooler and the fan, and having 2 fans as back exhausts help remove the hot air faster.
> 
> Though all this is theory, and I still need to find a thermostat to check it over.


Mmm, thanks that's food for thought, although I'm not too sure about the top fans, as the main reason I'll be getting the R5 is for silence. I will probably go with x2 front and x1 bottom intake, with the TS140 Power and x1 rear fan for exhaust and try that first?








I get the impression that the TY130s will move a lot of air at 1300, but might be a tad loud for my needs?


----------



## Ur64n 50ulj4h

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I have not used the new Fractal Design fans so can't say what their performance is. The Thermalright fans will not fit without modifying them to be square. I use PWM case fans and control them wiht CPU and GPU PWM fan signals so they automatically cycle from idle to speed the same way cooler fans do. My old Define R2 is modified with bottom and back grills removed, with front behind door refitted for modified TY-140 fans.
> 
> I'll see if I can find some images of it and post them in the "Ways to better cooling" thread.


Thanks, you've been a great help.








I was thinking, x2 140mm TY-140s front intake, x1 TY-140 bottom intake, x1 TY-140 rear exhaust, plus the TS-140 Power exhaust as a starting point?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ur64n 50ulj4h*
> 
> Thanks, you've been a great help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking, x2 140mm TY-140s front intake, x1 TY-140 bottom intake, x1 TY-140 rear exhaust, plus the TS-140 Power exhaust as a starting point?


Cooler comes with TY-147 (same as T-140 except for color). TY-140, TY-141, TY-147, all have same specs. TY-141 has a little different fan blade. Get whichever is cheapest.

Newest are TY-147A which replaces TY-140 & TY-147. It has a 300-1300rpm ranges compared to TY-140/147 600-1300rpm (spec is 900-1300rpm, but they do idle down to 600-650rpm).

Do be careful. If Define R5 has 140x140 square fan mount, the TY-14x series will not fit without cutting the round sides from 150mm to 140mm .. 5mm off of each round side. There is a post in 'Ways to better cooling' about how to do it.


----------



## invincibler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ur64n 50ulj4h*
> 
> Thanks, you've been a great help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking, x2 140mm TY-140s front intake, x1 TY-140 bottom intake, x1 TY-140 rear exhaust, plus the TS-140 Power exhaust as a starting point?


I'd say move the rear exhaust and one front intake to top intake.

The rear exhaust because I don't think it helps improve cooling that much, but intake with fresh cool air from the top of the case definitely will.
The front intake because again it won't help cool the CPU much, and the GPU can be easily fed with just 1 140mm TY-140/143, but having a top intake that will blow air straight into the cooler should help more IMO.

Also, I'd recommend using 143s instead since IIRC they're quieter at 1300RPM compared to TY-140, and you have a huge ceiling left should you need it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I have not used the new Fractal Design fans so can't say what their performance is. The Thermalright fans will not fit without modifying them to be square. I use PWM case fans and control them wiht CPU and GPU PWM fan signals so they automatically cycle from idle to speed the same way cooler fans do. My old Define R2 is modified with bottom and back grills removed, with front behind door refitted for modified TY-140 fans.
> 
> I'll see if I can find some images of it and post them in the "Ways to better cooling" thread.
> Edit: Pics posted


My TY-147 can be mounted like 120mm fans, but is 140mm in size, so I don't think you have to mod them. Though I'm not 100% sure if it's a square 120x120.

Do you split the PWM header from the GPU to control? Or via SpeedFan?

EDIT: Just checked and it's actually a 120x120 mount for the 147.


----------



## Ur64n 50ulj4h

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *invincibler*
> 
> I'd say move the rear exhaust and one front intake to top intake.
> 
> The rear exhaust because I don't think it helps improve cooling that much, but intake with fresh cool air from the top of the case definitely will.
> The front intake because again it won't help cool the CPU much, and the GPU can be easily fed with just 1 140mm TY-140/143, but having a top intake that will blow air straight into the cooler should help more IMO. _I understand your logic on this, but without a top fan filter, won't this generate more dust in the case?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> Also, I'd recommend using 143s instead since IIRC they're quieter at 1300RPM compared to TY-140, and you have a huge ceiling left should you need it.
> My TY-147 can be mounted like 120mm fans, but is 140mm in size, so I don't think you have to mod them. Though I'm not 100% sure if it's a square 120x120.
> 
> Do you split the PWM header from the GPU to control? Or via SpeedFan? _At the moment, I'm only using the CPU header & Asus Thermal Radar, my case fans are controlled by my PSU (was interested in how well it did or didn't perform)_
> 
> EDIT: Just checked and it's actually a 120x120 mount for the 147.


_Ok, thanks for that, very useful.







_


----------



## Ur64n 50ulj4h

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Cooler comes with TY-147 (same as T-140 except for color). TY-140, TY-141, TY-147, all have same specs. TY-141 has a little different fan blade. Get whichever is cheapest.
> 
> Newest are TY-147A which replaces TY-140 & TY-147. It has a 300-1300rpm ranges compared to TY-140/147 600-1300rpm (spec is 900-1300rpm, but they do idle down to 600-650rpm).
> 
> Do be careful. If Define R5 has 140x140 square fan mount, the TY-14x series will not fit without cutting the round sides from 150mm to 140mm .. 5mm off of each round side. There is a post in 'Ways to better cooling' about how to do it.


Great help again, thanks.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *invincibler*
> 
> I'd say move the rear exhaust and one front intake to top intake.
> 
> The rear exhaust because I don't think it helps improve cooling that much, but intake with fresh cool air from the top of the case definitely will.
> The front intake because again it won't help cool the CPU much, and the GPU can be easily fed with just 1 140mm TY-140/143, but having a top intake that will blow air straight into the cooler should help more IMO.
> 
> Also, I'd recommend using 143s instead since IIRC they're quieter at 1300RPM compared to TY-140, and you have a huge ceiling left should you need it.
> My TY-147 can be mounted like 120mm fans, but is 140mm in size, so I don't think you have to mod them. Though I'm not 100% sure if it's a square 120x120.
> 
> Do you split the PWM header from the GPU to control? Or via SpeedFan?
> 
> EDIT: Just checked and it's actually a 120x120 mount for the 147.


\
TY-143 is not quieter than other TY-140 series fans.

TY-143 has same noise level and same airflow from idle up to 1300rpm as other TY-140 series fans. It used more power and keeps on going up to 2500rpm. But for normal use it is not advantageous to use them. Exception is when using them on CPU cooler and using TY-140 and / or TY-147 case fans, the cooler fans spins faster on same PWM signal. It's all explained in this Thermalright TY-14x fan series link.

TY-147a as case fans with TY-147 as cooler fans works very well too .. for same reasons as TY-143 & TY-140 or TY-147 does.


----------



## Ur64n 50ulj4h

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> \
> TY-143 is not quieter than other TY-140 series fans.
> 
> TY-143 has same noise level and same airflow from idle up to 1300rpm as other TY-140 series fans. It used more power and keeps on going up to 2500rpm. But for normal use it is not advantageous to use them. Exception is when using them on CPU cooler and using TY-140 and / or TY-147 case fans, the cooler fans spins faster on same PWM signal. It's all explained in this Thermalright TY-14x fan series link.
> 
> TY-147a as case fans with TY-147 as cooler fans works very well too .. for same reasons as TY-143 & TY-140 or TY-147 does.


Thanks for that.







Taking this into consideration I think I'll go with the last suggestion, TY-147a case fans & leave the TY-147 for the cooler, sounds like the best fit for my needs.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ur64n 50ulj4h*
> 
> Thanks for that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taking this into consideration I think I'll go with the last suggestion, TY-147a case fans & leave the TY-147 for the cooler, sounds like the best fit for my needs.


I'm really nit-picking about the PWM to RPM curve difference. If TY-147A fans are available and same or similar price to TY-147 or TY-140, buy all means use them. But I've used a lot of TY-140 / TY-147 on both case and cooler with great results. Only real difference is when doing CPU intensive operations (like encoding videos) the system is slightly louder because of case fans spinning at same speed as cooler. Honestly, we are talking about 3dbA difference .. just enough to be able to hear it being a little louder.


----------



## Ur64n 50ulj4h

Thanks doyll, for your input and feedback








What are your thoughts about rear versus top exhaust, out of curiosity?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ur64n 50ulj4h*
> 
> Thanks doyll, for your input and feedback
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are your thoughts about rear versus top exhaust, out of curiosity?


With front and possibly a bottom intake and rear exhaust the airflow is front to back moving heated air out the back.

With same intakes and top exhaust the airflow moves in front and bottom and up out the top .. moving the heated air from GPU up to the CPU cooler .. not the coolest (pun intended) to do it.

But to get good front to back airflow requires more vent area in lower half of back, like removing all unused PCIe slot covers. In my Define R2 case I removed the back vent grill and grill area over PCIe slot area for better airflow. This is what I've done to my Define R2 back.


And I'm thinking of cutting the vent above I/0 area bigger.


----------



## Ur64n 50ulj4h

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> With front and possibly a bottom intake and rear exhaust the airflow is front to back moving heated air out the back.
> 
> With same intakes and top exhaust the airflow moves in front and bottom and up out the top .. moving the heated air from GPU up to the CPU cooler .. not the coolest (pun intended) to do it.
> 
> But to get good front to back airflow requires more vent area in lower half of back, like removing all unused PCIe slot covers. In my Define R2 case I removed the back vent grill and grill area over PCIe slot area for better airflow. This is what I've done to my Define R2 back.
> 
> 
> And I'm thinking of cutting the vent above I/0 area bigger.


At the moment my current set up looks like this. Excuse the quality of the pics, taken at different times, with different cameras.


All the case fans are Phanteks' @ 120mm, except top fan Fractal S2 @140mm. Front & rear are intake, top exhaust. At the moment, all the fans apart from CPU are plugged directly into and controlled by the PSU, which I was curious to see how it managed. CPU fan is m/b controlled. Temps seem good generally, MB a steady 33c, CPU idles in mid 30s, 55/56 under full load and the whole system is very quiet even said load.








All of this is moot, as I'm getting the Fractal R5 as an upcoming birthday pressie, so just planning for that with bigger fans really.
Your help though, has been a major insight







. There should be a "we're not worthy" smiley!


----------



## doyll

Any time.








The picture of your back has fan as exhaust. I guess you changed it? Can the be quiet! be mounted facing back, or is one of those that will only mount horizontal on AMD?
I have several cases and of course want may others. Define R5, Enthoo Luxe, are a couple I would love to try out.


----------



## Ur64n 50ulj4h

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Any time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The picture of your back has fan as exhaust. I guess you changed it? Can the be quiet! be mounted facing back, or is one of those that will only mount horizontal on AMD?
> I have several cases and of course want may others. Define R5, Enthoo Luxe, are a couple I would love to try out.


Well spotted eagle eyes!







Yes that fan has been swapped round to be intake & that be Quiet only has one orientation on AMD boards, which is why I'm looking at alternative cpu cooler for the case change and I like the simple, understated elegance of the Fractals.


----------



## TheGamerAdi

Hey Guys, first timer here.

I am trying to find a cooler for my 4790K, I started with EVGA ACX which looks cool but is loud and eventually reached this thread.

I am thinking between True Spirit 140 Rev A (BW) or True Spirit Power.

My case is CM Storm Stryker so I guess space will not be a problem. Right now the price difference is about 5-6$ only;

What do you guys suggest?


----------



## invincibler

Definitely Power if you have the space.

However, do check your mainboard. On my X99-Pro, the cooler actually scratches the back of the GPU when installed in slot 1


----------



## TheGamerAdi

thanks for response.

The center of stock fan is about 90 mm from first PCI slot. As per this link http://www.thermalright.com/html/products/cpu_cooler/true_spirit_140_power.html?panel=1 the length is 155 CM; so I guess it should be safe in my case.

Or should I check some other way? My motherboard is http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4979#ov

Does power have good clearing for RAMs and mobo hearsinks? heatsinks are around 20mm and RAM is 40mm.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheGamerAdi*
> 
> Hey Guys, first timer here.
> 
> I am trying to find a cooler for my 4790K, I started with EVGA ACX which looks cool but is loud and eventually reached this thread.
> 
> I am thinking between True Spirit 140 Rev A (BW) or True Spirit Power.
> 
> My case is CM Storm Stryker so I guess space will not be a problem. Right now the price difference is about 5-6$ only;
> 
> What do you guys suggest?


TRUE Spirit 140 Power has a little better performance. I have both and to see the difference the CPU has to be really pushed hard. Adding a hi-performance fan also gives more cooling but is also much louder if you use the added performance. I usually use the TY-143 fans because they are just as quiet below 1300rpm (where they run 99.9% of the time) but have the ability to move almost twice as much air when spun up to their 2500rpm limit. The TY-147A is the lowest idling at 300rpm. Others idle 600-700rpm .. even the TY-143 idles at 700-760RPM depending on system. But honestly, why idle below 6-700rpm anyway? You can't hear them at that speed anyway.


----------



## TheGamerAdi

Thanks for responding, I am going to OC the CPU but do not think will go insane. May be around 4.4 Ghz (at stock volt). My confusion is that they are just 5$ apart currently, so does the "power" justify that extra 5$ or should I save that $5 as I am not going to notice any difference with my 4770K at 4.4 Ghz.

>>why idle below 6-700rpm anyway? You can't hear them at that speed anyway.
Make sense to me. But do you think it may extend fan's life?


----------



## deepor

I can hear the difference between 400 RPM and 600-700 RPM just fine for 140mm fans. For the front fans, it is a bit annoying to me in a quiet room when trying to read or write in silence without music etc.

My case is pretty open and also built bad so I guess this might not apply to someone with a Define or something.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheGamerAdi*
> 
> Thanks for responding, I am going to OC the CPU but do not think will go insane. May be around 4.4 Ghz (at stock volt). My confusion is that they are just 5$ apart currently, so does the "power" justify that extra 5$ or should I save that $5 as I am not going to notice any difference with my 4770K at 4.4 Ghz.
> >>why idle below 6-700rpm anyway? You can't hear them at that speed anyway.
> Make sense to me. But do you think it may extend fan's life?


I doubt you will be using the fans long enough to know if they last longer at lower speed.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I can hear the difference between 400 RPM and 600-700 RPM just fine for 140mm fans. For the front fans, it is a bit annoying to me in a quiet room when trying to read or write in silence without music etc.
> 
> My case is pretty open and also built bad so I guess this might not apply to someone with a Define or something.


A lot of the noise we hear is not the fan, but the airflow through the grill and past other things in it's way. I know you are aware of all this, but many others are not. In a good case like a Define 6-700rpmis usually inaudible unless you are very close to the case .. like have it setting on your desk along side of you.


----------



## TheGamerAdi

One final question; How does Phanteks PH-TC12DX stands against these?


----------



## doyll

TRUE Spirit 140 Power is quieter and cooler.


----------



## TheGamerAdi

Ordered TRUE Spirit 140 Power from Amazon; should be arriving in a couple of days. My CPU was reaching 100 on Prime (v26) in 3 mins. on stock cooler.


----------



## doyll

Thanks for the update.
Please let us know when it arrives and how it performs for you.


----------



## TheGamerAdi

Will sure do. Thanks


----------



## TheGamerAdi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Thanks for the update.
> Please let us know when it arrives and how it performs for you.


Here is how it goes,

Cooler came, Excited Owner,
Took 2 hours and installed cooler ,
Tight it to max, and more, may be a little more,
Machine keeps resetting with no post,
Motherboard socket pins bends,
tries to fix but too many pins,
Deciding which motherboard to buy now,


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheGamerAdi*
> 
> Here is how it goes,
> 
> Cooler came, Excited Owner,
> Took 2 hours and installed cooler ,
> Tight it to max, and more, may be a little more,
> Machine keeps resetting with no post,
> Motherboard socket pins bends,
> tries to fix but too many pins,
> Deciding which motherboard to buy now,


Wow! Really sorry to hear that. What a bummer.















I suggest you contact Gigabyte about repairing the CPU socket. I'm pretty sure they do this sort of thing. Probably have to pay for it, but it's way cheaper than a new motherboard.

Mounting coolers does not bend CPU socket pins. That is done when installing CPU onto socket. You probably know this, but just so others understand.

Just tighten until screws stop. Trying to get them too tight ends in grief with broken screws.


----------



## TheGamerAdi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Wow! Really sorry to hear that. What a bummer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suggest you contact Gigabyte about repairing the CPU socket. I'm pretty sure they do this sort of thing. Probably have to pay for it, but it's way cheaper than a new motherboard.
> 
> Mounting coolers does not bend CPU socket pins. That is done when installing CPU onto socket. You probably know this, but just so others understand.
> 
> Just tighten until screws stop. Trying to get them too tight ends in grief with broken screws.


I am checking with them; they are just not responding though; I will be glad to pay if it can not be repaired under warranty.

I actually did think that it happened due to mounting of cooler; so you are saying that if CPU is correctly installed any amount of pressure will not cause it? I am new to 1150 platform; though I worked with many LGA 775 build and never faced this bending issue.

Thanks


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheGamerAdi*
> 
> I am checking with them; they are just not responding though; I will be glad to pay if it can not be repaired under warranty.
> 
> I actually did think that it happened due to mounting of cooler; so you are saying that if CPU is correctly installed any amount of pressure will not cause it? I am new to 1150 platform; though I worked with many LGA 775 build and never faced this bending issue.
> 
> Thanks


From what I know mounting coolers doesn't damage the CPU socket pins. Something coming in contact with them before CPU is installed or CPU being put in wrong is what most often does the damage.

I have never damaged a CPU socket installing a cooler .. but I damaged a CPU socket when installing the CPU .. and the pins get mashed when closing the CPU mount. I bent pins once when my shirt sleeve brushed an unprotected CPU socket. Luckily I noticed it before installing the CPU and was able to straighten the pin .. otherwise it would have mashed the pins and probably destroyed the socket.

Where are you located?


----------



## TheGamerAdi

>>but I damaged a CPU socket when installing the CPU .. and the pins get mashed when closing the CPU mount

This could be the case.

I am in US, bay area.


----------



## doyll

No idea who could repair it for you. Hopefully someone else will know. Maybe post the question in the motherboard forum.


----------



## TheGamerAdi

I am trying my luck Gigabyte right now. They responded recently; have asked me to RMA it. WIll see how it goes.


----------



## doyll

Sounds like a good start!


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheGamerAdi*
> 
> I am trying my luck Gigabyte right now. They responded recently; have asked me to RMA it. WIll see how it goes.


Good luck


----------



## TheGamerAdi

Gigabyte is repairing the motherboard out of warranty which costed me 45$ + 14$ shipping; this is almost 50% of the board cost.

RMA tracking is not very responsive and IMO it is better to keep checking with them over the phone. Hopefully my PC will be up and running soon.


----------



## invincibler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheGamerAdi*
> 
> Gigabyte is repairing the motherboard out of warranty which costed me 45$ + 14$ shipping; this is almost 50% of the board cost.
> 
> RMA tracking is not very responsive and IMO it is better to keep checking with them over the phone. Hopefully my PC will be up and running soon.


Maybe next time consider an ASUS board instead. I also bent mine and they replaced it for free


----------



## TheGamerAdi

I will not consider a Gigabyte for sure. I mean I don't mind paying if its not covered in warranty but the pricing is absurd.


----------



## invincibler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheGamerAdi*
> 
> I will not consider a Gigabyte for sure. I mean I don't mind paying if its not covered in warranty but the pricing is absurd.


They probably have to replace the whole socket, maybe even the motherboard. Which is unfortunate.


----------



## doyll

Assuming they are replacing the socket, the price is not bad. It is quite a lot of work. Here is the first of a 2 part video of socket replacement


----------



## TheGamerAdi

My mobo is back and I hooked everything together and am running prime as I type this post. Temps are (69, 75, 72, 65) max on each core and package max is 75. it was going 100+ on stock cooler so for sure an improvement. The CPU is @ 4.4 using 1.184 v.

I will tweak with motherboard settings; I think gigabyte might have reset everything to default. I just recall setting volts to max 1.15. Will update again.


----------



## 5pellfire

Has the difference between True Spirit 140 Power and Macho Rev. B been posted anywhere?

It seems to me both should perform close to each other, TS140P has 8mm heatpipes, whereas
the Macho Rev. B has a larger fin area.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *5pellfire*
> 
> Has the difference between True Spirit 140 Power and Macho Rev. B been posted anywhere?
> 
> It seems to me both should perform close to each other, TS140P has 8mm heatpipes, whereas
> the Macho Rev. B has a larger fin area.


About the fin areas, those might not be as different as you think. It seems to me the HR-02 tries to have a larger gap between the fins so that air can move easier as they want it to be potentially usable as a passive cooler.

I just looked at the sketches of the coolers on their website, and I count 45 fins on the TS 140 Power and 31 fins on the HR-02 Macho Rev. B. There's a difference in the height of the coolers but that difference isn't enough to explain the numbers. The fins on the HR-02 really are further apart and on the TS closer together.

I only counted the fins once so the numbers might be off a little.


----------



## doyll

The TRUE Spirit 140 Power was designed with because 8mm pipes generally perform better on extreme wattage / heat sources at transfering heat than 6mm pipes. It's a combination of more surface area to dissipate the heat and more volume for vapor to flow away from evaporator / heat source. At normal load levels both will perform near the same, but at extreme wattage levels the TRUE Spirit 140 Power should out-perform the Macho.

6mm pipes have 18.84sqmm surface area and 28.26sqmm volume per mm of length
8mm pipes have 25.12sqmm surface area and 50.24sqmm volume per mm of length.
133% more surface and 177% more volume

They were designed for different purposes. The origins of the Macho go back to the HR-01 & HR-02 passive coolers. Adding a fan to HR-02 obviously improved cooling. Macho rev.B is same cooler as Macho Zero, but has a fan instead of being passive or using an exhaust duct to exhaust fan.

Bottom line; they are designed for different applications, but both have similar cooling and noise levels in normal use .. as in not being used on extreme overclocked systems.


----------



## 5pellfire

Thanks, doyll.
Great information, as always.

Since I don't overclock, it seems the cheaper option would not mean lesser cooling:thumb:


----------



## doyll

I\m using / have used both as well as many others TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A may also be worth looking at. It's not as tall and is offset for better PCIe socket clearance.


----------



## 5pellfire

Yes, I have also considered the Rev. A Spirit, however, I am afraid that it would not be compatible with my board
(AsRock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3) because the tower is offset and set quite low, and installation might be blocked by
the upper heatsink on the board. Would need to check to make sure.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *5pellfire*
> 
> Yes, I have also considered the Rev. A Spirit, however, I am afraid that it would not be compatible with my board
> (AsRock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3) because the tower is offset and set quite low, and installation might be blocked by
> the upper heatsink on the board. Would need to check to make sure.


TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A bottom fin is 37mm above CPU or 45mm above motherboard.
TRUE Spirit 140 Power bottom fin is 44mm above CPU or 52mm above motherboard.
Macho is bottom fin is 45mm above CPU or 53mm above motherboard


----------



## MicroCat

FYI: Tweaktown released a glowing review of the True Spirit 140 Rev A last week:
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7160/thermalright-true-spirit-140-bw-rev-cpu-cooler-review/index.html



Spoiler: Warning: Canadians, Do Not Look!



Now Tweaktown's 2nd best performing air cooler tested. Impressive. And so it should be for it's $138.47CDN + shipping - higher than a D-15!!! Thermalright used to be a go-to cost effective option in Canada - now without proper distribution, it appears sellers on Amazon are buying them in the US and marking them up 3X.


----------



## doyll

Great review! Show just how amazing Thermalright coolers are. Their quality construction means they don't have ot be a big to get fantastic performance.

Would you post this over in the TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A thread too?
http://www.overclock.net/t/1525831/true-spirit-140-bw-rev-a-shorter-offset-for-better-pcie-case-clearance/0_20


----------



## MicroCat

Posted. Skipped the sad Canadian purchaser story....frustrating...May have to cross-border shop for one in the next build. And it won't be cheap, but it will be cool. ;-)


----------



## Nickos

Hi,

I have the Thermalright Archon (the old one) since 2012 with my i7 3770k (OC 4.2GHz).
I'm thinking of upgrading to True Spirit 140 Power because
-it looks better with the top black fin
-Has 6x 8mm heatpipes (compared 6x 6mm old Archon)
-Bigger base than the old Archon
-It is thermalright.

I'd like to ask your opinion
-Is it really better at cooling than the old Archon even thought is has 6 fins less?
-Is it better at cooling than Macho Rev.B?
-Is it better at cooling than TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A?
-Is it better at cooling than the new Archon SB-E?
-Is it better at cooling than Noctua U14s and U12s?
I've read the reviews but I'm not really sure because the results sometimes seem too good and sometimes average.

Thanks


----------



## deepor

I bet the Archon will be very similar performance. I'm pretty sure you will be disappointed if you expect a change in temperatures.


----------



## ladcrooks

Amongst the top air coolers, there will not be much in it as temps go! Choose on price and looks that suit you!

I wouldn't loose sleep over one out doing the other by a couple degrees! Most important is noise and think when setting up fan rpm - does it matter if you have slightly warmer figures but you have gained the best noise factor?

The temps are never going to be anywhere intels/amd threshold - unless you are 100% cpu 24/7


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nickos*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have the Thermalright Archon (the old one) since 2012 with my i7 3770k (OC 4.2GHz).
> I'm thinking of upgrading to True Spirit 140 Power because
> -it looks better with the top black fin
> -Has 6x 8mm heatpipes (compared 6x 6mm old Archon)
> -Bigger base than the old Archon
> -It is thermalright.
> 
> I'd like to ask your opinion
> -Is it really better at cooling than the old Archon even thought is has 6 fins less?
> -Is it better at cooling than Macho Rev.B?
> -Is it better at cooling than TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A?
> -Is it better at cooling than the new Archon SB-E?
> -Is it better at cooling than Noctua U14s and U12s?
> I've read the reviews but I'm not really sure because the results sometimes seem too good and sometimes average.
> 
> Thanks


What others have already said. :thumb
- probably not
- maybe, but very little if any in normal use. At extreme CPU loads it is.
- only at extreme CPU wattage
- probably not, and there is a newer Archon IB-E
- similar to U14S, better than U12S
TRUE Spirit 140 series coolers are among the best noise to performance coolers out there.

Most reviews are rather worthless. Only a few even monitor the actual cooler intake air temp and that is critical when comparing coolers.
They use the room ambient instead and often only look at it before and after all testing is done.
Using room ambient is like looking at thermometer on your porch to find out what the temperature is in your kitchen.
The often test in cases to "simulate _real world_ results .. The only real world involved is theirs. Our systems are not the same as theirs which means coolers perform different in our systems than in their systems.

Using room ambient results show us only how the cooler _performs in the test system_. It is a system cooling test, not a cooler cooling test.
Cooler intake air temp (especially under heavy CPU load) is almost never the same as room ambient. .
2-3c is about as close as it ever gets ..
8-12c difference is common ..
sometimes there is 14-20c difference..
Changing coolers usually changes cooler intake air temp.
Simply changing cooler or case fan speed changes cooler intake air temp.
Using cooler intake air temperature has to be known to compare coolers on their own cooling ability.
They take CPU readings to 0.01c but say room varies 1.00c .. meaning the accuracy of CPU readings is +/-0.50c, not 0.01c, but 0.5c .. big difference!
While testing with cooler intake is not perfect it does eliminate many variables and give us a comparison of cooler performance rather than system performance. Additional variables are barometric pressure, humidity, etc.

Over on OcUK there is a TIM review by one of their staff that didn't even monitor any temperatures during testing but the CPU .. and it's stickied as if it was credible.









Sorry, I'll get down off my soapbox now.


----------



## Nickos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> What others have already said. :thumb
> - probably not
> - maybe, but very little if any in normal use. At extreme CPU loads it is.
> - only at extreme CPU wattage
> - probably not, and there is a newer Archon IB-E
> - similar to U14S, better than U12S
> TRUE Spirit 140 series coolers are among the best noise to performance coolers out there.
> 
> Most reviews are rather worthless. Only a few even monitor the actual cooler intake air temp and that is critical when comparing coolers.
> They use the room ambient instead and often only look at it before and after all testing is done.
> Using room ambient is like looking at thermometer on your porch to find out what the temperature is in your kitchen.
> The often test in cases to "simulate _real world_ results .. The only real world involved is theirs. Our systems are not the same as theirs which means coolers perform different in our systems than in their systems.
> 
> Using room ambient results show us only how the cooler _performs in the test system_. It is a system cooling test, not a cooler cooling test.
> Cooler intake air temp (especially under heavy CPU load) is almost never the same as room ambient. .
> 2-3c is about as close as it ever gets ..
> 8-12c difference is common ..
> sometimes there is 14-20c difference..
> Changing coolers usually changes cooler intake air temp.
> Simply changing cooler or case fan speed changes cooler intake air temp.
> Using cooler intake air temperature has to be known to compare coolers on their own cooling ability.
> They take CPU readings to 0.01c but say room varies 1.00c .. meaning the accuracy of CPU readings is +/-0.50c, not 0.01c, but 0.5c .. big difference!
> While testing with cooler intake is not perfect it does eliminate many variables and give us a comparison of cooler performance rather than system performance. Additional variables are barometric pressure, humidity, etc.
> 
> Over on OcUK there is a TIM review by one of their staff that didn't even monitor any temperatures during testing but the CPU .. and it's stickied as if it was credible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I'll get down off my soapbox now.


Thank you, that was quite informative!









If it's close to Noctua U14s then this is enough for me because Noctua U14s is a very good cooler but is very ugly compared to True Spirit 140 Power.
If I can have performance similar to U14s and the looks of True Spirit 140 Power.... then True Spirit 140 Power is the perfect cooler for me right now.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power vs the BW, what am I missing whats the difference ? And wich one should i preffer ?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power vs the BW, what am I missing whats the difference ? And wich one should i preffer ?


What you are missing depends on what you are not seeing or understand about each .. and so far you have not let us know anything of what you do know.









What is "the BW" I know of two TRUE Spirit 140 varrients with "BW" in their name; the TRUE Spirit 140 BW and the TRUE TRUE Spirit 140 BW Rev.A


----------



## outofmyheadyo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> What you are missing depends on what you are not seeing or understand about each .. and so far you have not let us know anything of what you do know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is "the BW" I know of two TRUE Spirit 140 varrients with "BW" in their name; the TRUE Spirit 140 BW and the TRUE TRUE Spirit 140 BW Rev.A


Well all i really want is whatever is newer and better







(for 6600K)
I tried the AIO-s, i tried the huge towers, now i wanna try something simple, like this cooler.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> Well all i really want is whatever is newer and better
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (for 6600K)
> I tried the AIO-s, i tried the huge towers, now i wanna try something simple, like this cooler.


I know of many issues with AIO's, specifically CLCs, but what problems were there with "huge towers"?
Is this for your sig system?
Can you tell me what your CPU clearance and RAM height please?


----------



## outofmyheadyo

No, what i mean is I have tried the big air towers and there is nothing wrong with them some are fantastic NHD14 was the last big one I had, same with AIO-s some are superb, some not so much.
All i wanted to know wich version of this Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power performs best. I just want to try a new cooler








And no, it is not my sig system im building a brand new one with Asus Z170-A, 6600K, and this kit http://www.kingston.com/datasheets/HX426C15FBK4_32.pdf


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> No, what i mean is I have tried the big air towers and there is nothing wrong with them some are fantastic NHD14 was the last big one I had, same with AIO-s some are superb, some not so much.
> All i wanted to know wich version of this Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power performs best. I just want to try a new cooler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And no, it is not my sig system im building a brand new one with Asus Z170-A, 6600K, and this kit http://www.kingston.com/datasheets/HX426C15FBK4_32.pdf


Okay.
The TRUE Spirit 140 Power has 8mm heatpipes instead of the usual 6mm heatpipes. with TY-147 fan In normal use you probably won't see any difference, but it is cooler when extreme overclocking, especially with high performance fans like TY-143.


TRUE Spirit 140 BW has 6mm pipes, is same size as TRUE Spirit 140 Power and has black top with TY-147 fan.

The TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A is shorter with offset base for better clearance with 147A fan. TY-147A is 300-1300rpm and TY-147 is 550-1300rpm. About the same normal cooling but not quite as cool with extreme overclocking.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

Thank you for clearing that up, ill order the Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power now,cant wait to test this puppy, should be able to handle my 6600K just fine


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> Thank you for clearing that up, ill order the Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power now,cant wait to test this puppy, should be able to handle my 6600K just fine


A top tier cooler for under 60€ is a good deal.

I'm in the process of doing a MSI Z179M Mortar with 6700K so very interested in how this all works for you. Please let me know how it all works.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

Will do!


----------



## outofmyheadyo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> A top tier cooler for under 60€ is a good deal.
> 
> I'm in the process of doing a MSI Z179M Mortar with 6700K so very interested in how this all works for you. Please let me know how it all works.




So i finally managed to get my rig up and running, and cant be happier with the cooler, unfortunately my 6600k is a bit of a pile of poop and cant really get it stable within reasonable volts past 4600mhz.
But i ran a bit of a test at 4600 @ 1.325V the fan was floppin around with something like 300 to 400 rpm atleast according to my bios, and i cant even hear it so basically silent solution.
I even tried 1.4V at 4600 and if i remember correctly the hottest core was 71c after the same test


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> 
> 
> So i finally managed to get my rig up and running, and cant be happier with the cooler, unfortunately my 6600k is a bit of a pile of poop and cant really get it stable within reasonable volts past 4600mhz.
> But i ran a bit of a test at 4600 @ 1.325V the fan was floppin around with something like 300 to 400 rpm atleast according to my bios, and i cant even hear it so basically silent solution.
> I even tried 1.4V at 4600 and if i remember correctly the hottest core was 71c after the same test


Nice!








Do you have the TY-147 or TY-147A fan? To "flop" around at 300-400rpm I'm guessing TY-147A.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

It's strange that you ask the other day i thought there is a cable stuck in my fan but this had come loose


----------



## doyll

TY-147A idles down to 300rpm


----------



## outofmyheadyo

I dont know what`s the deal, but after moving from 6600K to 6700K my temps are pretty ridiculous, all casefans are 140mm fractals @ 5v.
Cooler is still the same old TR Spirit 140 power, but even a short 15min realbench stresstest pushes 2 cores to 83 and 2 cores to 78c.
First I thought it`s the thermal paste ( used CLP before 2 cores 81 and 2 cores 78 ) and since I ran out now I am using Noctua NT-H1, and as i thought temps went up 2c.
Im thinking on moving to a custom loop, since I`m only pushing 1.3v to the CPU @ 4600 and temps are pretty abysmal, and I would like to OC it higher.
I mean its nice and inaudible, even going full blast load on the CPU and GPU i cant really hear anything, well it was nice while it lasted on 6600K, but for 6700K it seems it just doesnt cut it.
And I dont think any other aircooler would offer me drastic improvements over this one.


----------



## sebna

Really sorry if the question was already asked but I looked through last few pages and have not seen it.

What if any, is the performance increase with introduction of second of same 140mm fan?

EDIT:

Also, does anyone knows if it fits into Antec P-180 case (hight might be an issue as it is on the edge from what can tell by looking at numbers)

Thanks,
seb


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sebna*
> 
> Really sorry if the question was already asked but I looked through last few pages and have not seen it.
> 
> What if any, is the performance increase with introduction of second of same 140mm fan?
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Also, does anyone knows if it fits into Antec P-180 case (hight might be an issue as it is on the edge from what can tell by looking at numbers)
> 
> Thanks,
> seb


Asked and answered many times. 1.65c at 1200rpm. With 2x TY-143 fans at 2500rpm it is 2.55c. that was on i7 920 @ 4.2GHz with cooler intake air temp used as baseline.

Sorry, can't help with fit. If case spec is 171mm or more it will fit. If you don't have cooler yet and think it might really be a problem the TRUE Spirit 140 Rev.A is basically just as good, shorter and offset for better PCIe clearance.


----------



## sebna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Asked and answered many times. 1.65c at 1200rpm. With 2x TY-143 fans at 2500rpm it is 2.55c. that was on i7 920 @ 4.2GHz with cooler intake air temp used as baseline.
> 
> Sorry, can't help with fit. If case spec is 171mm or more it will fit. If you don't have cooler yet and think it might really be a problem the TRUE Spirit 140 Rev.A is basically just as good, shorter and offset for better PCIe clearance.


Many thanks for your answer.

Was it not TY-147a by default on those sinks? They do not spin to 2500? Do you know by any chances what change would bring second 147a fan? I currently have my [email protected]~4ghz cooled by TRUE Black 120 with two 12cm Noctua fans. I might try and see what temps I will be getting with it on 6700k oced to whatever I can achieve with this cooling and particular chip. Have any thoughts on efficiency of TRUE Black vs Spirit?

BTW how is the noise dampening on your fractal design is, would you buy it again? I am contemplating moving on from P180 to something new. One of the front runners is P280







, FT-02 and Fractal R5.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sebna*
> 
> Many thanks for your answer.
> 
> Was it not TY-147a by default on those sinks? They do not spin to 2500? Do you know by any chances what change would bring second 147a fan? I currently have my [email protected]~4ghz cooled by TRUE Black 120 with two 12cm Noctua fans. I might try and see what temps I will be getting with it on 6700k oced to whatever I can achieve with this cooling and particular chip. Have any thoughts on efficiency of TRUE Black vs Spirit?
> 
> BTW how is the noise dampening on your fractal design is, would you buy it again? I am contemplating moving on from P180 to something new. One of the front runners is P280
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , FT-02 and Fractal R5.


TY-147A was stock fan. TY-143 has same performance up to 1300rpm. Only difference is just keeps on going, and going, and going.









I think I know who you are. You recently got a new mount for your TRUE Black and are in UK?

I'm running a TRUE Spirti 140 rev.A on my 6700k now. Idles in mid 20's @ 565rpm and 100% load is [email protected] Cooler intake air temp is 22c,


----------



## sebna

haha that would be me







Also just noticed few minutes ago we are having this chat in two different locations







A bit of exercise in split personality type of thing.

What clock are you running on your 6700k?

If you look at this article http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,667362/Thermalright-True-Copper-2-kg-copper-cooler-reviewed-Update-New-results-and-Intel-statement-about-the-weight/Reviews/ and this http://icrontic.com/article/thermalright-true-copper-review/4

It looks like Black is lagging about 2-3 degrees behind Cooper and Copper is lagging another 2-4 behind 140 Power. So that is potentially around 6-8 C difference between Black and 140 Power.

I could as well remove heat sinks from Trident-z and go all out with PH-TC14PE or D15 - what do you think? Is it worth it to do a change at all from Black or to go dual tower in compare to True 140 Power?

Ohh my Black is mirror finish lapped (as my q9550).

Cheers


----------



## doyll

My 6700k is stock at the moment. I'm still using 1366 test station.

Accuracy of testing varies dramatically between reviews. An time I see "we use a case to give 'real world' comparisons" I know they are not accurate. Unless they use cooler intake air temp the only tests that are 'real world' for are ones done in that system. Using room ambient when testing is like monitoring the bedroom temp and saying that is the temp in the kitchen. Bedroom will remain constant while kitchen changes when cooking, when back door is open etc.

But I digress. If I had the TRUE Black with mount and nothing else, I would use it. Nothing lost if it does not do as well as you would like, and then you can upgrade.


----------



## sebna

That is the plan anyway. I will try it first and see what will happen, but as I plan to OC the CPU I do not think it is going to work long-term. Well if does happy days (kind of, as my system is still too loud for my liking with Noctuas going full speed all the time (1200 - 1500rpm). I would like as silent as possible system which can get louder when I am gaming but should remain as inaudible as possible when I dont.

If it does not go well with Black I might just look at Fractal Design R5 and making it into positive pressure configuration with only 2-3 140mm fans - probably those from Therlmalright and a good cooler - one of the mentioned before probably.

I read that Maximus Hero VIII which I am getting is supposed to have some great fan control tools built in so maybe I would achieve what I want with config like that.


----------



## sebna

Hmm, I have just checked specs of my Noctua fans NF p12 vs TY-147A and it seems that Noctuas makes less noise and move more air while making less noise... at least on paper. But Noctuas full speed are too loud for me (at least 5 of them running at same time in my P180).

Any views on actual noise of both type of fans? I mean numbers do not describe the sound really in this case.


----------



## doyll

As I read them TY-147A is quieter.
Specs.
NF-P12 = 55cfm / 2.61mmH2O @ 1500rpm @ 22.4dBA
TY-147A = 74cfm /1.54mmH2O @ 1300rpm @ 21 dBA
To me that's less air at similar sound level. Are you reading airflow in cfm or m/h?

I use 2x of them on NH-U12P years ago, then changed to TY-140 with custom shrouds. That was years back but I don't remember TY-140s being louder, but things ran cooler.

Case wise, I like the idea of Define 5. I'm very happy with my old Define 2. But I'm just as happy with Enthoo Luxe and Enthoo Evolv. Have an Enthoo Primo too, but find it bigger than my needs There are some other good cases, but I have not used them. I like SilverStone concepts. I've used some of their fans and coolers and find them top shelf. Would love to try the be quiet! case. Again, their coolers and PSUs are top shelf.


----------



## sebna

Not sure where from you are taking those specs.

Both taken from manufacturer website:
Specs.
NF-P12 = 92.3cfm @ 1300rpm @ 19.8dBA
TY-147A = 73.6cfm @ 1300rpm @ 21 dBA

Actually TY-147A is a closer match for NF-P12 when Noctua works on 9v
NF-P12 = 78.5cfm @ 1100rpm @ 16.9dBA
TY-147A = 73.6cfm @ 1300rpm @ 21 dBA

Cheers


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sebna*
> 
> Not sure where from you are taking those specs.
> 
> Both taken from manufacturer website:
> Specs.
> NF-P12 = 92.3cfm @ 1300rpm @ 19.8dBA
> TY-147A = 73.6cfm @ 1300rpm @ 21 dBA
> 
> Actually TY-147A is a closer match for NF-P12 when Noctua works on 9v
> NF-P12 = 78.5cfm @ 1100rpm @ 16.9dBA
> TY-147A = 73.6cfm @ 1300rpm @ 21 dBA
> 
> Cheers


Obviously.








Got back to Noctua website and look very closely at the Airflow specification. It is not 92.3 *cfm*. It is Airflow 92,3 *m³/h*

Airflow 92,3 m³/h = 54.325729 cfm

Same applies to the 78.5 spec you posted @ 1100rpm. but I won't kick a second time.









You are not the first one to all prey to the m³/h, not cfm trap.


----------



## sebna

Those nasty bastards got me









Thanks for pointing it out.

I will build my new sys in P180 and if temps are too high or OC to low







I will move on to R5 with new CPU cooler with 140 fans and will see if I can make it quiet when not on load.

Cheers

EDIT: I guess one more question about TY-147A and 143 fans. You said they are the same but looking at specs it seems that 143 could not be slowed down as much as 147a - is this the case or can you actually make them got down to 300rpm as well?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sebna*
> 
> Those nasty bastards got me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for pointing it out.
> 
> I will build my new sys in P180 and if temps are too high or OC to low
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will move on to R5 with new CPU cooler with 140 fans and will see if I can make it quiet when not on load.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> EDIT: I guess one more question about TY-147A and 143 fans. You said they are the same but looking at specs it seems that 143 could not be slowed down as much as 147a - is this the case or can you actually make them got down to 300rpm as well?


Sounds like a plan.








Don't forget you will probably want to change the front fans in Define R5 like many others have done.


----------



## sebna

Of course. All fans would be replaced. Probably for 147A as I really like their low RPM noise levels, but I would do the research re fans if I would be deciding on a change.

Lets see what I can squeeze out of my current setup first.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sebna*
> 
> Of course. All fans would be replaced. Probably for 147A as I really like their low RPM noise levels, but I would do the research re fans if I would be deciding on a change.
> 
> Lets see what I can squeeze out of my current setup first.


The P180 is not a bad case. I'm sure with a little time and effort it will do just fine.


----------



## sebna

I know it is not a bad case but I had it for over a decade now and build into it few systems through that time. It had a good life and now it is time for something more up to date. I have v1 version without any cable management built in so no matter hard you try it is always a bit (actually more then a bit) of mess.

Also adding HDDs and fine tuning internals is a nightmare due to limited space to work with. It is a great case but it might be just time for me to move on


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sebna*
> 
> I know it is not a bad case but I had it for over a decade now and build into it few systems through that time. It had a good life and now it is time for something more up to date. I have v1 version without any cable management built in so no matter hard you try it is always a bit (actually more then a bit) of mess.
> 
> Also adding HDDs and fine tuning internals is a nightmare due to limited space to work with. It is a great case but it might be just time for me to move on


Have you looked at Phanteks Enthoo Luxe and Pro cases? And the Evovl ATX?


----------



## sebna

I have been looking at them whole afternoon. I really like Evolv exterior design (in silver especially, yes please) but I have two problems with it. The most important - why do they all have to come with a window? If not, a forced on me, window I would most likely buy it as I read the quality and interior functionality is top notch. The second problem is sound dampening or rather lack of it







I mean this is not a deal breaker as I could buy dampening mats and work on making it quieter myself but I do not need or want noise leaking window when the case stands under the desk with windows side facing wall haha

Am I right that I cannot get it without a window?


----------



## sebna

God damn it, I should really stop talking to you







Phanteks Evolv ATX it will be if I decide on new case and if only I can fit it under the desk. I have to think which colour it will be. Either grey or silver. Is it silver of white? They call it silver but it looks white in most pictures.


----------



## doyll

While I agree for the most part, windows are not a deal breaker. did you see the latest tempered glass model. Not just a window, not just on one side, but both sides are tempered glass panels. Tape a newspaper over it, or aluminum foil.







Seriously, contact paper / vinyl on inside works nicely. As for sound dampening, the thickness of the aluminum do a pretty good job of it.

How quiet a system is has more to do with components (fans & airflow) than sound dampening. Vents radiate sound, and cases have to be vented. It seems Define R5 may be your best choise if you want dampening, no window, etc.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sebna*
> 
> God damn it, I should really stop talking to you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phanteks Evolv ATX it will be if I decide on new case and if only I can fit it under the desk. I have to think which colour it will be. Either grey or silver. Is it silver of white? They call it silver but it looks white in most pictures.


Now stop cussing.








My goal in life is to confuse as many people as possible by giving them too many options.









Evolv is silver. No white model. Mine is pewter gray color, and of course there is a black one too.


----------



## sebna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> ...It seems Define R5 may be your best choise if you want dampening, no window, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is all true but I like the design and higher quality finish of Evolv ATX. R5 is very similar in visual design to P180 but IMHO still not as good. While Evolve is a breath of fresh air and I am looking for a change on as many levels as possible. Now window might not be such a bad thing after all. I do not have to expose it if I do not want to.

All I need to do is try to find some noise comparisons of the two contenders and see how big is the difference.

R5 is much cheaper as well but then I will keep which ever I choose probably for another 10 years so the price does not matter that much.

How are the stock fans? They look very good on paper - there is two of them included I would need at least 3rd one for exhaust.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sebna*
> 
> That is all true but I like the design and higher quality finish of Evolv ATX. R5 is very similar in visual design to P180 but IMHO still not as good. While Evolve is a breath of fresh air and I am looking for a change on as many levels as possible. Now window might not be such a bad thing after all. I do not have to expose it if I do not want to.
> 
> All I need to do is try to find some noise comparisons of the two contenders and see how big is the difference.
> 
> R5 is much cheaper as well but then I will keep which ever I choose probably for another 10 years so the price does not matter that much.
> 
> How are the stock fans? They look very good on paper - there is two of them included I would need at least 3rd one for exhaust.


Choosing one over the other is not an easy decision. I don't know which I would choose if I could only have one or the other.
How about starting a tread to compare them in .. so we don't plug up this one?


----------



## BertoM

This is a longshot, but I was wondering if anybody happened to have a 140 power they wouldn't mind getting rid of? I am having trouble finding one (both amazon and bizhub are out of stock).


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BertoM*
> 
> This is a longshot, but I was wondering if anybody happened to have a 140 power they wouldn't mind getting rid of? I am having trouble finding one (both amazon and bizhub are out of stock).


Kinda hard to help without knowing where you are.


----------



## BertoM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Kinda hard to help without knowing where you are.










I am in California


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BertoM*
> 
> This is a longshot, but I was wondering if anybody happened to have a 140 power they wouldn't mind getting rid of? I am having trouble finding one (both amazon and bizhub are out of stock).


It's showing in stock at Nan's: http://www.nansgaminggear.net/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TS-140-Power

(FYI: Nan's is the TR US distributor)


----------



## doyll

Indeed, Nans' is the seller on Amazon, but for some reason the shipping from Nans is more than on Amazon.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Indeed, Nans' is the seller on Amazon, but for some reason the shipping from Nans is more than on Amazon.


Actually, the reason is simple. The prices are higher on Amazon than at Nan's site (probably to cover the Amazon tax, er, commission).

For example, the Macho Rev B is 44.95 at Nan's, but $52.90 on Amazon - but even with the inflated price on Amazon, their web shop does gouge on shipping compared to most other etailers.

They don't offer a USPS option anymore it seems. With their UPS/FedEx options it's cheaper to ship to a business address. And better to order in large quantities as the shipping rates start high and then seem to cost only a few bucks more per item. Printing that 2nd or 3rd shipping label is way cheaper. Printing that first one is brutal tho.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Actually, the reason is simple. The prices are higher on Amazon than at Nan's site (probably to cover the Amazon tax, er, commission).
> 
> For example, the Macho Rev B is 44.95 at Nan's, but $52.90 on Amazon - but even with the inflated price on Amazon, their web shop does gouge on shipping compared to most other etailers.
> 
> They don't offer a USPS option anymore it seems. With their UPS/FedEx options it's cheaper to ship to a business address. And better to order in large quantities as the shipping rates start high and then seem to cost only a few bucks more per item. Printing that 2nd or 3rd shipping label is way cheaper. Printing that first one is brutal tho.


To put it bluntly, the end price to consumer is lower when Nan's sells on Amazon than buying directly from Nans.
Nans lower price plus shipping cost is is several dollars more then same cooler from Amazon with 'free deliver.

Strange because Amazon even says they are form Nans.

Bluntly stating it again, even in larger quantities the shipping cost still make the total cost 'brutal' directly from Nans versus through Amazon.


----------



## ciarlatano

Items sold through Amazon can take advantage of Amazon's negotiated shipping rates, which are far lower than what Nan's would pay for shipping.


----------



## BertoM

Interesting, never heard of Nan's, I'll take a look.

And I don't know why more retailers don't ship through USPS. Always the cheapest option in my experience, and for me at least is also usually the quickest.


----------



## sebna

I have decided in favour of 140 Power







Such a shame they have not made 8mm heat pipes on BW rev A as I would not mind off-set to have usable PCI-e slot.

In the end it was between Dark Rock Pro 3 and Spirit but I like spirit sound from recordings better then Dark Rock and also it seems that Spirit is marginally more efficient cooler.

I was contemplating Swiftech AIO or Kraken x61 but in the end I cannot be bothered with leaks for an extra blink.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sebna*
> 
> I have decided in favour of 140 Power
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Such a shame they have not made 8mm heat pipes on BW rev A as I would not mind off-set to have usable PCI-e slot.
> 
> In the end it was between Dark Rock Pro 3 and Spirit but I like spirit sound from recordings better then Dark Rock and also it seems that Spirit is marginally more efficient cooler.
> 
> I was contemplating Swiftech AIO or Kraken x61 but in the end I cannot be bothered with leaks for an extra blink.


I think you will be happy with the TRUE Spirit 140 Power or TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A
The difference between 8mm and 6mm pipes is not much, and only becomes evident at extreme load / heat.

If you think the TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A offset is better for your application, I think you get. I have both and have repeatedly done A / B testing and found little difference, even when using TY-143 fan (which gives me 5-6c lower temps (at almost triples the noise level).. At most I've seen maybe 2c difference at the most extreme of conditions ( i7 920 @ 4.4GHz with 28c intake air temp was l.8c less @78c CPU).


----------



## sebna

I have just listened (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoS5JlAslu0xvKRkxMO3Bkg) to quite a few of top choices in the current fan line-up and it seems there is nothing that compares favourably to my trusty NF-P12 fans (of which I luckily have plenty). I am surprised but they just cannot be beaten. The TY-147a is no different. I would probably put it in 3rd place while in 2nd Corsair ultra quite 12cm but they are nowhere close to NF-P12 according to those recordings (maybe corsair is close but it moves less air then Noctuas).

I mean I will have a chance to see what phanteks PF-140SP and TY-147a are like in real life but if those YT recordings are correct then I will be reusing my Noctuas.

What also stands out to me is that quality 120 fans are quieter then quality 140... with minimal hit in flow in compare to big hit in generated noise which comes with 140 fans.

Such a shame that he has no silent wings 2 fans on test or in fact PF-140SP fans.

Cheers


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sebna*
> 
> I have just listened (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoS5JlAslu0xvKRkxMO3Bkg) to quite a few of top choices in the current fan line-up and it seems there is nothing that compares favourably to my trusty NF-P12 fans (of which I luckily have plenty). I am surprised but they just cannot be beaten. The TY-147a is no different. I would probably put it in 3rd place while in 2nd Corsair ultra quite 12cm but they are nowhere close to NF-P12 according to those recordings (maybe corsair is close but it moves less air then Noctuas).
> 
> I mean I will have a chance to see what phanteks PF-140SP and TY-147a are like in real life but if those YT recordings are correct then I will be reusing my Noctuas.
> 
> What also stands out to me is that quality 120 fans are quieter then quality 140... with minimal hit in flow in compare to big hit in generated noise which comes with 140 fans.
> 
> Such a shame that he has no silent wings 2 fans on test or in fact PF-140SP fans.
> 
> Cheers


Please do not believe YT video/audio sound clips are anything like the fans really sound. But you do rate the corsail as it should be.

I have too many fans to count; Noc A15, TY-147A, XF-140, PH-F140HP, etc. To my ears the TY-147A (all TY-14x 25mm thick fans) give the most pleasant sound when they become audible. But I have to say, the difference between several of these (including PH-F140SP, HP and MP) are so close I am more than happy with any of them .. and use them all in the systems setting around here.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Please do not believe YT video/audio sound clips are anything like the fans really sound. But you do rate the corsail as it should be.
> 
> I have too many fans to count; Noc A15, TY-147A, XF-140, PH-F140HP, etc. To my ears the TY-147A (all TY-14x 25mm thick fans) give the most pleasant sound when they become audible. But I have to say, the difference between several of these (including PH-F140SP, HP and MP) are so close I am more than happy with any of them .. and use them all in the systems setting around here.


First I just want to say this to YouTube 'audio' reviews:







They're the work of ignorant click-bait-happy devils.

Those 'audio' fan tests are hideous. And these guys are some of the better testers. But, still totally useless, imeo.

First, the noise floor in their recording studio is unacceptably high with ambient low frequency AC/electrical signal chain noise polluting the sound before a single fan is turned on. The amateur micing technique is not helping. Combined with the audio encoding artifacts from youtube's low resolution codecs only the grossest tonal characteristics are left. It's as if someone wanted to demonstrate the differences between 2K and 4K video monitors by recording the images on an old 480p VHS videocam with worn heads.

The basic testing premise is ridiculous. We don't purchase fans to sit on our desk and cool our lab power supplies. We install them in cases (or mount on rads/coolers) with air flow restrictions, restrictions that change the airflow and noise characteristics, often radically.

But wait! There's more! Mounting the fan on the desk turns the desktop into a sympathetic resonator. The result reveals something about the characteristic interaction of the fan's vibration spectrum with the desk and mic position. Which is great if we intend to buy the same desk they use and mount our fans on it. And listen to recordings of our fans. Ugh.

And third. What sort of moronic testing proceedure would use voltage control to test PWM fans??!! Sure, it's easier for them to test and the lead hand gets to perform its knob-twisting magic in front of the camera. But, it tells us nothing about how the PWM fan will behave or sound when used with PWM. Tells us nothing about any possible ticking issues with the PWM circuitry. Or any audible artifacts when the PWM signal ramps up/down.

Not going to mention the variability of playback signal chain...it's just more mush to add to the mushy signal chain. The internet was a great invention with many possible usages for education. This isn't one of them.

Youtube and any sort of representative audio test is an oxymoron. As the old adage goes...live music is better, and so is live fan testing. In situ.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> First I just want to say this to YouTube 'audio' reviews:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're the work of ignorant click-bait-happy devils.
> 
> Those 'audio' fan tests are hideous. And these guys are some of the better testers. But, still totally useless, imeo.
> 
> First, the noise floor in their recording studio is unacceptably high with ambient low frequency AC/electrical signal chain noise polluting the sound before a single fan is turned on. The amateur micing technique is not helping. Combined with the audio encoding artifacts from youtube's low resolution codecs only the grossest tonal characteristics are left. It's as if someone wanted to demonstrate the differences between 2K and 4K video monitors by recording the images on an old 480p VHS videocam with worn heads.
> 
> The basic testing premise is ridiculous. We don't purchase fans to sit on our desk and cool our lab power supplies. We install them in cases (or mount on rads/coolers) with air flow restrictions, restrictions that change the airflow and noise characteristics, often radically.
> 
> But wait! There's more! Mounting the fan on the desk turns the desktop into a sympathetic resonator. The result reveals something about the characteristic interaction of the fan's vibration spectrum with the desk and mic position. Which is great if we intend to buy the same desk they use and mount our fans on it. And listen to recordings of our fans. Ugh.
> 
> And third. What sort of moronic testing proceedure would use voltage control to test PWM fans??!! Sure, it's easier for them to test and the lead hand gets to perform its knob-twisting magic in front of the camera. But, it tells us nothing about how the PWM fan will behave or sound when used with PWM. Tells us nothing about any possible ticking issues with the PWM circuitry. Or any audible artifacts when the PWM signal ramps up/down.
> 
> Not going to mention the variability of playback signal chain...it's just more mush to add to the mushy signal chain. The internet was a great invention with many possible usages for education. This isn't one of them.
> 
> Youtube and any sort of representative audio test is an oxymoron. As the old adage goes...live music is better, and so is live fan testing. In situ.


Easy now big boy. Here, let me scratch your chin or ears or whatever calms you down .. No! I will that scratch you there!


----------



## ciarlatano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sebna*
> 
> I have just listened (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoS5JlAslu0xvKRkxMO3Bkg) to quite a few of top choices in the current fan line-up and it seems there is nothing that compares favourably to my trusty NF-P12 fans (of which I luckily have plenty). I am surprised but they just cannot be beaten. The TY-147a is no different. I would probably put it in 3rd place while in 2nd Corsair ultra quite 12cm but they are nowhere close to NF-P12 according to those recordings (maybe corsair is close but it moves less air then Noctuas).
> 
> I mean I will have a chance to see what phanteks PF-140SP and TY-147a are like in real life but if those YT recordings are correct then I will be reusing my Noctuas.
> 
> What also stands out to me is that quality 120 fans are quieter then quality 140... with minimal hit in flow in compare to big hit in generated noise which comes with 140 fans.
> 
> Such a shame that he has no silent wings 2 fans on test or in fact PF-140SP fans.
> 
> Cheers


So, you are making this judgement based on the sound from a YT video, that will have incredible variances depending on the recording, editing and processing, is a compressed audio file and is completely dependent on all of your playback equipment? That sounds reasonable......









It does explain why your "rankings" of fans is so incredibly bizarre, though.


----------



## sebna

I am not making any judgement I am just saying that if YT videos are right then this is how I see it. I also say I will test it for myself.

I certainly hope that both phanteks and thermalright fans are going to be better, much better then my Noctuas as this is the sole reason why I change my whole case setup and not only the internals with this iteration of my gaming PC.

I did not realise that some of us are so close with theirs fans







and that insult to them might be an insult to you









Now having this out of the way, I really hope that all will arrive before the weekend and that I can start building and learn for myself.

The bigger problem I am having now is that I would like to get fully modular PSU to get sleeved cables for this fully exposed build but it turns out it is not easy to replace HX850 with something meaningfully better.

Cheers


----------



## ciarlatano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sebna*
> 
> I am not making any judgement I am just saying that if YT videos are right then this is how I see it. I also say I will test it for myself.
> 
> I certainly hope that both phanteks and thermalright fans are going to be better, much better then my Noctuas as this is the sole reason why I change my whole case setup and not only the internals with this iteration of my gaming PC.
> 
> I did not realise that some of us are so close with theirs fans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and that insult to them might be an insult to you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now having this out of the way, I really hope that all will arrive before the weekend and that I can start building and learn for myself.
> 
> The bigger problem I am having now is that I would like to get fully modular PSU to get sleeved cables for this fully exposed build but it turns out it is not easy to replace HX850 with something meaningfully better.
> 
> Cheers


You haven't insulted my fans. They haven't even been mentioned here. At least I don't think they have....









But......you could not possibly have chosen a worse way to judge fans.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sebna*
> 
> The bigger problem I am having now is that I would like to get fully modular PSU to get sleeved cables for this fully exposed build but it turns out it is not easy to replace HX850 with something meaningfully better.


OT, but; if you're not overclocking then yeah, HX850 is still plenty good, however if you are then there are plenty of choices with better ripple suppression.


----------



## sebna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> OT, but; if you're not overclocking then yeah, HX850 is still plenty good, however if you are then there are plenty of choices with better ripple suppression.


I am always overclocking to max of what CPU / mobo combo can give on AIR but I run only single CPU and single GPU (6700k + GTX 1080 for this build, do not have either yet).

Sorry for OT as well but I am eyeing Corsair AX1200 (not I) which potentially could run all my sys in silent mode at least during desktop usage. Any views on this?


----------



## Loladinas

The AX1200 isn't any better in that department than the HX850. The AX1200i, however, probably still has the best ripple suppression to date. EVGA G2/P2 series are great as well, and cost less. You do lose the whole digital monitoring capability thing, by going with EVGA rather than Corsair. It's by no means a significant difference, but if you're out to get the best...


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sebna*
> 
> I am not making any judgement I am just saying that if YT videos are right then this is how I see it. I also say I will test it for myself.
> 
> I certainly hope that both phanteks and thermalright fans are going to be better, much better then my Noctuas as this is the sole reason why I change my whole case setup and not only the internals with this iteration of my gaming PC.
> 
> I did not realise that some of us are so close with theirs fans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and that insult to them might be an insult to you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now having this out of the way, I really hope that all will arrive before the weekend and that I can start building and learn for myself.
> 
> The bigger problem I am having now is that I would like to get fully modular PSU to get sleeved cables for this fully exposed build but it turns out it is not easy to replace HX850 with something meaningfully better.
> 
> Cheers


What MicroCat said is point on!
Quote:


> First I just want to say this to YouTube 'audio' reviews: They're the work of ignorant click-bait-happy devils.
> Those 'audio' fan tests are hideous. And these guys are some of the better testers. But, still totally useless, imeo.


But cats can be slightly high strung.








Simply using a YT video to evaluate fans and posting that you did so tends to lead people down the paths of hell


----------



## ciarlatano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> The AX1200 isn't any better in that department than the HX850. The AX1200i, however, probably still has the best ripple suppression to date. EVGA G2/P2 series are great as well, and cost less. You do lose the whole digital monitoring capability thing, by going with EVGA rather than Corsair. It's by no means a significant difference, but if you're out to get the best...


The EVGA G2/P2 are incredible PSUs, arguably the best currently available at any price along with the AX series and BQ DPP 11. However, the EVGA is more reasonably priced and has far nicer cables than the AX. Some think I am too particular about this, but I am always wary of PSUs with the flat cables - if they are using the cheapest possible option on something you can clearly see.....what could be lurking inside of the PSU? I simply see it as an indicator that corners are being cut, and at the price of an AX, there should be NO corners cut for a few pennies.


----------



## sebna

I read that AXi series are riddled with problems. Coil whine, noisy clicking fans every 10 seconds, problems with Corsair link soft. Basically I read that I should avoid AXi series at all cost. Not sure if this is true for all models in the range - doing my research this very moment.

BTW I have created separate thread http://www.overclock.net/t/1601193/looking-for-worthy-fully-modular-successor-of-hx850

Also AX1200i is too expensive for my build. I would not like to go higher then 200 euro / 160 GBP for PSU as I need to factor in another 100e for set of cables.

It also means that quality of OE cables does not bother me at all.

Cheers


----------



## outofmyheadyo

Well as it turns out this cooler was not to blame for my troubles afterall, I dediced to delid my 6700K and apply some CLU under the IHS, now its purring along @ 4800 @ 1.42v max cores are in the early 80s, so whomever is searching for a cooler that does not cost an arm and a leg, this one is a mighty fine unit, most likely 2 times cheaper than the glorious noctua D15 and does not have any problems cooling a 6700K running prime95 at 4800mhz


----------



## Elohim

I don't know if a new thread is necessary, that's why i post it in this thread:



The new True Spirit 140 Direct is a (slightly) cheaper (by 2€) and smalller version of the True Spirit 140. It has a new design, only 5 (6mm) heatpipes with direct touch and is smaller overall:
140 x 68,5 x 161 mm (L x B x H)
It comes with the TY140 Black. Performance is ok if we believe this test:
http://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php/artikel/hardware/kuehlung/40666-thermalright-true-spirit-140-direct-im-test.html?start=5


----------



## doyll

I started a new thread because the TRUE Spirit 140 Direct is different from any of the existing TRUE Spirit 140 coolers. It has 5x direct contact heatpipes encased in an aluminum base instead of usual 6x heatpipes encases in a solid copper base and a new difference design fin pack.

I noticed they are saying more about their LGA1151 spacer.

*Thermalright LGA1151 Spacer*

After seeing the photos and reports of Skylake PCB deformation on internet, Thermalright decided to address the issue. It appears the LGA1151 may have some potential problems dealing with the mounting pressure and / or weight of heavier aftermarket coolers (over 500g as specified in intel LGA1150 socket Application Guide). In our endeavour for excellence Thermalright is trying to lower the possibility of this happening by developing a spacer to fill the open area between the load plate and PCB to hold it tightly in place. The spacer fits onto CPU with a 0.5mm raised surface around the IHS fitting snugly on CPU PCB when load plate is latched down.




As you can see the spacer has a 0.7mm taper from back to front with a 0.5mm raised area where it fits around the IHS. The taper matches the slope of the socket load plate. Thick edge of taper goes toward load plate hinge. When the load plate is latched and presses on mounting points of IHS, it also presses on Thermalright 1151 spacer. This holds the CPU PCB firmly in plate. Making it harder for it to deform and cause problems.



Thermalright LGA1151 Support Spacers will be available free of charge at most of Thermalright resellers by March 15th, 2016 for users buying a Thermalright cooler. Please consult with our resellers for availability before you place an order. If you already have a Thermalright cooler and are moving it to Skylake CPU, just show your Skylake proof of purchase to one of our retailers. Of course if this is done online, you will have to pay the postage costs.

I've been using one of these on my 6700K for most of it's life. While I don't know if it has made any difference it has definitely not done any harm, so I will continue to use is. I'm hoping to have the TRUE Spirit 140 Direct to test soon.


----------



## doyll

dbl post


----------



## spddmn24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I started a new thread because the TRUE Spirit 140 Direct is different from any of the existing TRUE Spirit 140 coolers. It has 5x direct contact heatpipes encased in an aluminum base instead of usual 6x heatpipes encases in a solid copper base and a new difference design fin pack.
> 
> I noticed they are saying more about their LGA1151 spacer.
> 
> *Thermalright LGA1151 Spacer*
> 
> After seeing the photos and reports of Skylake PCB deformation on internet, Thermalright decided to address the issue. It appears the LGA1151 may have some potential problems dealing with the mounting pressure and / or weight of heavier aftermarket coolers (over 500g as specified in intel LGA1150 socket Application Guide). In our endeavour for excellence Thermalright is trying to lower the possibility of this happening by developing a spacer to fill the open area between the load plate and PCB to hold it tightly in place. The spacer fits onto CPU with a 0.5mm raised surface around the IHS fitting snugly on CPU PCB when load plate is latched down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see the spacer has a 0.7mm taper from back to front with a 0.5mm raised area where it fits around the IHS. The taper matches the slope of the socket load plate. Thick edge of taper goes toward load plate hinge. When the load plate is latched and presses on mounting points of IHS, it also presses on Thermalright 1151 spacer. This holds the CPU PCB firmly in plate. Making it harder for it to deform and cause problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Thermalright LGA1151 Support Spacers will be available free of charge at most of Thermalright resellers by March 15th, 2016 for users buying a Thermalright cooler. Please consult with our resellers for availability before you place an order. If you already have a Thermalright cooler and are moving it to Skylake CPU, just show your Skylake proof of purchase to one of our retailers. Of course if this is done online, you will have to pay the postage costs.
> 
> I've been using one of these on my 6700K for most of it's life. While I don't know if it has made any difference it has definitely not done any harm, so I will continue to use is. I'm hoping to have the TRUE Spirit 140 Direct to test soon.


Are people damaging their CPU's with thermalright coolers? They aren't secure with springs like most other coolers, and there's a decent gap between the mounting plate and the base plate it mounts too. I would imagine tightening it down all the way could damage the CPU.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spddmn24*
> 
> Are people damaging their CPU's with thermalright coolers? They aren't secure with springs like most other coolers, and there's a decent gap between the mounting plate and the base plate it mounts too. I would imagine tightening it down all the way could damage the CPU.


I do not know of a single incident of Thermalright mounting damaging any CPU socket, LGA 1151 or otherwise.

I have not heard of anyone damaging an LGA 1151 by installing and using any cooler. The only damages I've heard of were from abusive handling in shipments with cooler installed .. something sane people are not going to do anyway. I suppose someone could increase the mounting pressure to extreme levels and damage one too, but they would be insane to do that too.


----------



## spddmn24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I do not know of a single incident of Thermalright mounting damaging any CPU socket, LGA 1151 or otherwise.
> 
> I have not heard of anyone damaging an LGA 1151 by installing and using any cooler. The only damages I've heard of were from abusive handling in shipments with cooler installed .. something sane people are not going to do anyway. I suppose someone could increase the mounting pressure to extreme levels and damage one too, but they would be insane to do that too.


I wonder if I didn't tighten it enough. Is it designed to tighten down all the way?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spddmn24*
> 
> I wonder if I didn't tighten it enough. Is it designed to tighten down all the way?


If you snugged the screw down, then they should be tight enough.

But what cooler on what CPU on what motherboard are we talking about?


----------



## spddmn24

true spirit 140 rev a, MSI Z170a krait gaming, 6700k. Not sure if the cooler is designed to be tightened until there is no gap, or just snug. Hitting ~80 degrees @ 1.432v @ 4.7ghz.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spddmn24*
> 
> true spirit 140 rev a, MSI Z170a krait gaming, 6700k. Not sure if the cooler is designed to be tightened until there is no gap, or just snug. Hitting ~80 degrees @ 1.432v @ 4.7ghz.


the crossbar should have no gap to square-ish mount, and all square-ish mount should be snug against pillar screws against motherboard.

Same cooler on same CPU on mine is 55c @ 1.248v @ 1100rpm .. and idle is 28c @ 1.208 @ 660rpm. 1.482v is going to be much hotter. What is your cooler intake air temp? Not room air temp, but cooler intake. It cooler intake is more than 3-5c above room temp, optimizing case airflow to get it down to that will lower CPU temp a degree for every degree cooler th air into cooler is. "Ways to Better Cooling" link in my sig, 1st post is index, click on topics to see them. 5th is a good place to start.
If you changed the stock TY-147A 1300rpm fan to a TY-143 2500rpm fan temps should come down 7-8c.


----------



## Friedmett

When I build my latest pc back in March 2016 I got to some months ago thinking of what to do with my 2008 Thermalright 120 ultra cpu cooler I used on the previous build.

But could I install it on 1151 Skylake?

I got in touch with Thermalright and they send me the parts I needed directly from Taiwan to Denmark.

The spacer was included and the Ultra is now installed. Everything is stable and install fine once I found how it should be.

Rpms went down to 300 with a Noctua nf12 for cpu and back fan handling airflow


----------



## doyll

wrong thread


----------



## Raggie

Hey guys! I will buy a new CPU cooler soon.
I am changing from a 212 EVO and I want a significant cooling boost. Might even consider delidding my 3770K.

I am torn between these three coolers: True Spirit 140 Power, True Spirit 140 Direct and HR-02 Macho Rev B.

My requirements in order of importance:
1-I have all 4 memory DIMMs populated with low profile memories so they should fit
2-best cooling performance
3-low noise if possible

The case will be a Phanteks Enthoo Pro so cooler height won't be a problem.









Thanks in advance for the advices!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raggie*
> 
> Hey guys! I will buy a new CPU cooler soon.
> I am changing from a 212 EVO and I want a significant cooling boost. Might even consider delidding my 3770K.
> 
> I am torn between these three coolers: True Spirit 140 Power, True Spirit 140 Direct and HR-02 Macho Rev B.
> 
> My requirements in order of importance:
> 1-I have all 4 memory DIMMs populated with low profile memories so they should fit
> 2-best cooling performance
> 3-low noise if possible
> 
> The case will be a Phanteks Enthoo Pro so cooler height won't be a problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for the advices!


TRUE Spirit 140 Power is best of the three, Next best is Macho rev.B, then TRUE Spirit 140 Direct.


----------



## Raggie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> TRUE Spirit 140 Power is best of the three, Next best is Macho rev.B, then TRUE Spirit 140 Direct.


Thank you!! Especially for the fast answer!









That is what I suspected as well, but wasn't sure of it. Tests mostly rate TS 140 Power a bit stronger then the Macho RevB, but what I read was never 100% convincing so you reassured me.
And about the TS 140 Direct I was not quite sure if the direct heatpipe design and being the newest of all thre would be enough to be more powerful, but as I get it from your answer it is not.

Thanks again! I think I'll get the TS 140 Power! It is the best looking from the three as well(imho)!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raggie*
> 
> Thank you!! Especially for the fast answer!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is what I suspected as well, but wasn't sure of it. Tests mostly rate TS 140 Power a bit stronger then the Macho RevB, but what I read was never 100% convincing so you reassured me.
> And about the TS 140 Direct I was not quite sure if the direct heatpipe design and being the newest of all thre would be enough to be more powerful, but as I get it from your answer it is not.
> 
> Thanks again! I think I'll get the TS 140 Power! It is the best looking from the three as well(imho)!


The TRUE Spirit 140 Power has similar cooling to NH-D14, which with same fans as NH-D15 has similar is similar in performance, which is similar in preformance to Cryorig R1, Silver Arrow (all variants), PH-TC14PE, Alpenfohn Olymp, Dark Rock Pro 3, NH-U14S, Le Grand Macho RT, et
Here is test of TRUE Spirit 140 Power and NH-D14
http://www.overclock.net/t/1477785/thermalright-true-spirit-140-power/20_20#post_22111036

The TRUE Spirit 140 Direct is geared to compete against lower cost and it's preformance is quite good on 90-130w stock CPUs. But it's not designed to be to high end cooler like TRUE Spirit 140 Power. It's more like a new version of what the 212 Evo is. A little bit more money and a bunch more cooling and very quiet. The TY-14x fan series Thermalright uses on most coolers are very good and quiet.


----------



## Raggie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> The TRUE Spirit 140 Power has similar cooling to NH-D14, which with same fans as NH-D15 has similar is similar in performance, which is similar in preformance to Cryorig R1, Silver Arrow (all variants), PH-TC14PE, Alpenfohn Olymp, Dark Rock Pro 3, NH-U14S, Le Grand Macho RT, et
> Here is test of TRUE Spirit 140 Power and NH-D14
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1477785/thermalright-true-spirit-140-power/20_20#post_22111036
> 
> The TRUE Spirit 140 Direct is geared to compete against lower cost and it's preformance is quite good on 90-130w stock CPUs. But it's not designed to be to high end cooler like TRUE Spirit 140 Power. It's more like a new version of what the 212 Evo is. A little bit more money and a bunch more cooling and very quiet. The TY-14x fan series Thermalright uses on most coolers are very good and quiet.


Yeah, I was eyeballing the NH-U14S too, but it is ridiculously overpriced compared to the TS 140 P and the Noctua-brown would not really fit in my PC design so I quit it really fast!









To tell you the truth I would even go to the legths of buying a Silver Arrow IB-E but the fans' color again...







If those would come with the TY-147 fans as well I would insta-buy one!
But if I count the extra price of one or two TY-147 fans over the already expensive price then it is again twice as the TS 140 P and not THAT stonger...

I think I'll stay with the TS 140 P. The upgrading of my case and CPU cooling is due next month so we'll see if anything better comes around, but I doubt it!









PS.: how about a Archon SB-E or IB-Ex2? How does that compare to TS 140 P?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raggie*
> 
> Yeah, I was eyeballing the NH-U14S too, but it is ridiculously overpriced compared to the TS 140 P and the Noctua-brown would not really fit in my PC design so I quit it really fast!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To tell you the truth I would even go to the legths of buying a Silver Arrow IB-E but the fans' color again...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If those would come with the TY-147 fans as well I would insta-buy one!
> But if I count the extra price of one or two TY-147 fans over the already expensive price then it is again twice as the TS 140 P and not THAT stonger...
> 
> I think I'll stay with the TS 140 P. The upgrading of my case and CPU cooling is due next month so we'll see if anything better comes around, but I doubt it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS.: how about a Archon SB-E or IB-Ex2? How does that compare to TS 140 P?


Archon SB-E is as wide and height as TRUE Spirit 140 Power. In my experience 8x 6mm heatpipes versus 6x 8mm heatpipes give same cooling.
Archon IB-E is offset base with 69mm center CPU toward PCIe sockets and 165mm tall
Even 6x 6mm heatpipes give about the same unless extreme overclock / wattage heat is at play.

I should have mentioned that the TRUE Spirit 140 Power is 75mm center CPU toward PCIe socket's, so make sure it does not block the PCIe socket you plan to use for GPU.

If you want more PCIe socket clearance the Archon IB-E might be a good choice. It's TY-141 fans are as good as TY-147A fans.

I don't think the Silver Arrow IB-E is any stronger, just has more powerful fans so can move more air and cool more at higher fan speeds, and that means more noise too. The TY-143 fans are very good fans, Their only problem is color. I painted a set black for when I want to use them.


----------



## Raggie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> (...)
> The TY-143 fans are very good fans, Their only problem is color. I painted a set black for when I want to use them.


Whoah!








Well if in the future I will want to spruce out every bit of juice from my 3770K then probably that is what I'll do too!
(replacing the 147 for a 143 but paint it black&white first







)

As for the PCI-E clearance:
On THIS picture this same mobo is with a TS140, so if the TS140P is not much wider then I'll be fine. I am not using the nearest PCI-Ex1 slot, only the big PCI-Ex16 slot and that is not blocked.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raggie*
> 
> Whoah!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well if in the future I will want to spruce out every bit of juice from my 3770K then probably that is what I'll do too!
> (replacing the 147 for a 143 but paint it black&white first
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> As for the PCI-E clearance:
> On THIS picture this same mobo is with a TS140, so if the TS140P is not much wider then I'll be fine. I am not using the nearest PCI-Ex1 slot, only the big PCI-Ex16 slot and that is not blocked.


That pictured looks like the TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A. It has an offset base.
Here is top view of TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A, Archon IB-E and NH-U14S. Notice that both Thermalright cooler have offset bases with 69mm center CPU toward PCIe socket but NH-U14S is centered with 75mm toward PCIe socket.


----------



## Raggie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> That pictured looks like the TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A. It has an offset base.
> Here is top view of TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A, Archon IB-E and NH-U14S. Notice that both Thermalright cooler have offset bases with 69mm center CPU toward PCIe socket but NH-U14S is centered with 75mm toward PCIe socket.


Well *in this post* it is defo a TS140P with the same board as mine(Z77 Extreme4) and it is not blocking the VGA slot...








So I'm not worried!


----------



## doyll

Either i'm misinterpreting your reply or you think I was out of line .. if I'm correct you will not get my help again. Sorry, but I would rather error on the side of caution than have you end up with a blocked x16 PCIe socket.


----------



## Raggie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Either i'm misinterpreting your reply or you think I was out of line .. if I'm correct you will not get my help again. Sorry, but I would rather error on the side of caution than have you end up with a blocked x16 PCIe socket.


No, no. I do not think anyone is out of line and I am really greatful for all the help I already got here from you!








I was just searching the web trying to find a picture from my motherboard being used with a TS140P cooler so I can be sure in advance that it will work well and the PCI-E clearance will be ok too.
I couldn't find any picture or drawing from the Z77 Extreme4 board where they would incude the PCIE clearance in mm so that is why I was looking for pictures of finished rigs on the net.

I just tought I found an exact match so I would just post it here to be sure. As you cleverly pointed out on the previous previous picture that I posted that the cooler is not the TS140P but the TS10 revA(which I could not see since I don't know these coolers so well) I just wanted to be sure I got the right picture from the right cooler this time!









Sorry if my post was misleading. English is not my native language so that could be why my writing could be off.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raggie*
> 
> No, no. I do not think anyone is out of line and I am really greatful for all the help I already got here from you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just searching the web trying to find a picture from my motherboard being used with a TS140P cooler so I can be sure in advance that it will work well and the PCI-E clearance will be ok too.
> I couldn't find any picture or drawing from the Z77 Extreme4 board where they would incude the PCIE clearance in mm so that is why I was looking for pictures of finished rigs on the net.
> 
> I just tought I found an exact match so I would just post it here to be sure. As you cleverly pointed out on the previous previous picture that I posted that the cooler is not the TS140P but the TS10 revA(which I could not see since I don't know these coolers so well) I just wanted to be sure I got the right picture from the right cooler this time!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry if my post was misleading. English is not my native language so that could be why my writing could be off.


Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *1ceSt0rm*
> 
> You really need to learn to not get so defensive all the time doyll, not everyone is out to get you in the world. As soon as any challenge to your knowledge or opinion shows up, you get so freaking reactive and defensive, I've noticed that about you in my lurking on forum for awhile.


I'm not paying any attention to the opinions of someone who posts Thermalright for Thermalfaketake .


----------



## KoolDrew

Well after not having my True Spirit 140 power for very long it seems the bearing on the fan is shot. It was making a bunch of noise and last night was even a bit "wobbly." Anyone have any experience with their RMA process?

In the meantime since I'm not sure how long the RMA process will take I think I'm just going to order a replacement fan on Amazon to get back up and running sooner, and then I can keep the RMA'd fan as a backup. What should I look at for a replacement?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KoolDrew*
> 
> Well after not having my True Spirit 140 power for very long it seems the bearing on the fan is shot. It was making a bunch of noise and last night was even a bit "wobbly." Anyone have any experience with their RMA process?
> 
> In the meantime since I'm not sure how long the RMA process will take I think I'm just going to order a replacement fan on Amazon to get back up and running sooner, and then I can keep the RMA'd fan as a backup. What should I look at for a replacement?


I'm very surprised the original one has gone bad.
I would replace with same TY-147A fan.
If you want more cooling performance the TY-143 does give more cooling and it has ball bearings. Great fan if you can stand the red and orange colors.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *1ceSt0rm*
> 
> Honestly, having met the rep for Thermalsteal *cough* and owners of CaseMods, there is no doubt Thermalcrap stole the ideas, CaseMods just couldn't afford to win a legal battle sadly is what it came down to I think.


Not the first time either.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *1ceSt0rm*
> 
> ?


That Thermalfake copied / took others' ideas and products


----------



## Step83

Question for you guys, I have an AMD itx board, and this cooler, unfortunately it covers the PCIe slot. Is there a kit or mod to allow me to rotate the mount at all?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Step83*
> 
> Question for you guys, I have an AMD itx board, and this cooler, unfortunately it covers the PCIe slot. Is there a kit or mod to allow me to rotate the mount at all?


Not that I know of, sorry.


----------



## Raggie

Hey guys just a quick question.
I want to compare the NB eLoop 14 PS fan with the TY-147A.
I will order a TS 140 Power soon and I want to know if it comes with a 'TY-147A fan or some other 147 variant? If it comes with the same TY-147A then I don't need to buy one more but I can use the one that comes with the cooler itself for the comparison.
(The TS140P documentation just mentions TY-147 fan so I am not sure based on this







)


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raggie*
> 
> Hey guys just a quick question.
> I want to compare the NB eLoop 14 PS fan with the TY-147A.
> I will order a TS 140 Power soon and I want to know if it comes with a 'TY-147A fan or some other 147 variant? If it comes with the same TY-147A then I don't need to buy one more but I can use the one that comes with the cooler itself for the comparison.
> (The TS140P documentation just mentions TY-147 fan so I am not sure based on this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


The German website has not updated their webpage. Thermalright.com is the head office for Thermalright and they show TS140P having TY-147A fan. The TY-147 is out of products for several years and was replaced by the TY-147A. Even if you got a TY-147 instead of TY-147A the only difference is the TY-147A has a different PWM to RPM curve and idles at lower speed.









Maybe this will help.


----------



## Raggie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> The German website has not updated their webpage. Thermalright.com is the head office for Thermalright and they show TS140P having TY-147A fan. The TY-147 is out of products for several years and was replaced by the TY-147A. Even if you got a TY-147 instead of TY-147A the only difference is the TY-147A has a different PWM to RPM curve and idles at lower speed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe this will help.


Thanks!









I want to have a really quiet but at the same time well performing air cooling system.
That is why I want to test the TY-147A and this NB eLoop 14PS fan to determine which one to buy 5 pieces from to populate my chassis intakes and outtakes(Enthoo Pro).
Do you think it makes sense to try out the NB eLoop 14 PS fan on the TS 140P too? Can it match the performance of the TY-147A on a cooler? Until now I was only thinking about using it as chassis fan, but maybe it would worth a shot to testit out on a cpu cooler too. Dunno...


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raggie*
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want to have a really quiet but at the same time well performing air cooling system.
> That is why I want to test the TY-147A and this NB eLoop 14PS fan to determine which one to buy 5 pieces from to populate my chassis intakes and outtakes(Enthoo Pro).
> Do you think it makes sense to try out the NB eLoop 14 PS fan on the TS 140P too? Can it match the performance of the TY-147A on a cooler? Until now I was only thinking about using it as chassis fan, but maybe it would worth a shot to testit out on a cpu cooler too. Dunno...


What fans does your case and cooler have?

IEnthoo Pro originally came wiht PH-F140SP back fan and PH-F200SP front fan on older models, but newer models have either the PH-F140SP or new 'no-model number' that we think is basically the PH-F140SP housing and motor with a PH-F140MP impeller (1x rear and 2x front). I"m trying to find out what they actually are and hopefully get a couple to run some comparison tests against PH-F140MP and PH-F140SP.

Depending on the age of your PH-TC14PE it could have 3 difference fans. The newest are PH-F140HP_+II (MP impeller PWM motor), before that they were PH-F140HP (SP impeller PWM motor and originals were PH-F140TC (3-pin variable voltage).


----------



## Raggie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I think the Enthoo Pr has PH-F140SP back fan and PH-F200SP front fan on older models, but newer models have either the PH-F140SP or new 'no-model number' that we think is basically the PH-F140SP housing and motor with a PH-F140MP impeller. I"m trying to find out what the actually are and hopefully get a couple to run some comparison tests against PH-F140MP and PH-F140SP.


Well I know, but those Enthoo fans(according to other forum's responses) are quite bad compared either to the TY-147A or the NB eLoop 14 PS fans. They are mediocre at best.
So I will change them as soon as my case arrives. That is why I want to do this test with the TY-147A and the NB eLoop 14PS to determine which one should I favorise for the case fans.
I am planning to put 2x14 in front 1x14 in back, 1x14 on top and have 1x14 as spare, or later do a bit of modding to the powersupply cover to allow more airflow from the bottom fanmount and mount this last one there to have a bit more air to the VGA.

EDIT: I think my case will be pretty new version as I just ordered it!







Of course I have no way of telling in advance how long has it been in the stockroom of the shop but I think it will still be one of the newer versions.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raggie*
> 
> Well I know, but those Enthoo fans(according to other forum's responses) are quite bad compared either to the TY-147A or the NB eLoop 14 PS fans. They are mediocre at best.
> So I will change them as soon as my case arrives. That is why I want to do this test with the TY-147A and the NB eLoop 14PS to determine which one should I favorise for the case fans.
> I am planning to put 2x14 in front 1x14 in back, 1x14 on top and have 1x14 as spare, or later do a bit of modding to the powersupply cover to allow more airflow from the bottom fanmount and mount this last one there to have a bit more air to the VGA.


The TY-147A has a rounded fan housing with 120mm fan mounting holes. Many cases do not have 120mm fan mounting holes spaced to mount 140mm fans in. I squeezed a couple of TY-147A into front of my Enthoo Luxe. (same case as Pro) The difference was minimal. I ordered 15 TY-147A SQ when they were released and tried them too. The difference in cooling was not enough to say one was better than the other using same dB noise levels to temperatures comparislons. I can hear a difference in fan sound profile between TY-147 and PH-F140SP. I have not tested them agains PH-F140MP, but I suspect the MP is a little better (MP has higher pressure rating).

Have you looked at Thermalbench testing and reviews?

Edit: Could you post links to those other forum reviews?

The Enthoo Luxe and Enthoo Pro share the same case with different top and front covers. The bottom filters can be very easily 'modified' so the PSU filter and front filter are one long filter that slides out the front of case. No more moving case to clean PSU filter.








http://www.overclock.net/t/1418637/official-case-phanteks-case-club-for-lovers-owners/10220_20#post_24095206


----------



## Raggie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> The TY-147A has a rounded fan housing with 120mm fan mounting holes. Many cases do not have 120mm fan mounting holes spaced to mount 140mm fans in. I squeezed a couple of TY-147A into front of my Enthoo Luxe. (same case as Pro) The difference was minimal. I ordered 15 TY-147A SQ when they were released and tried them too. The difference in cooling was not enough to say one was better than the other using same dB noise levels to temperatures comparislons. I can hear a difference in fan sound profile between TY-147 and PH-F140SP. I have not tested them agains PH-F140MP, but I suspect the MP is a little better (MP has higher pressure rating).
> 
> Have you looked at Thermalbench testing and reviews?
> 
> Edit: Could you post links to those other forum reviews?
> 
> The Enthoo Luxe and Enthoo Pro share the same case with different top and front covers. The bottom filters can be very easily 'modified' so the PSU filter and front filter are one long filter that slides out the front of case. No more moving case to clean PSU filter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1418637/official-case-phanteks-case-club-for-lovers-owners/10220_20#post_24095206


I did not know the Thermalbench page before. Are you referring to this site? (http://thermalbench.com/)

Wow nice modding advice! THX!!









Well unfortunately those fan-related advices came form another Hungarian forum that I am reading/posting to. So I could link them here but I doubt that you would understand them. Hmm.. So you say the phanteks original casefans are not that bad?! I might just test it a bit with the original fans and then only changing to more expensive ones if they don't satisfy me.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raggie*
> 
> I did not know the Thermalbench page before. Are you referring to this site? (http://thermalbench.com/)
> 
> Wow nice modding advice! THX!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well unfortunately those fan-related advices came form another Hungarian forum that I am reading/posting to. So I could link them here but I doubt that you would understand them. Hmm.. So you say the phanteks original casefans are not that bad?! I might just test it a bit with the original fans and then only changing to more expensive ones if they don't satisfy me.


Yes, that is the site. Testing and reviewer are done by OCN user geggeg

I did it to my Luxe and posted the how to in Phanteks case thread.

I've found web language translation software does quiet well with most languages. I don't think I've tried it on Hungarian.

The stock Phanteks cases fans are quite good. Most people use them .. some even use then when doing water cooling loops.


----------



## Raggie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Yes, that is the site. Testing and reviewer are done by OCN user geggeg
> 
> I did it to my Luxe and posted the how to in Phanteks case thread.
> 
> I've found web language translation software does quiet well with most languages. I don't think I've tried it on Hungarian.
> 
> The stock Phanteks cases fans are quite good. Most people use them .. some even use then when doing water cooling loops.


Thank you for the site advice, I will read through a few fans that I chose as alternatives. I can see that it has vary many fans tested! Impressive!









Well If you really want I can link







:
https://prohardver.hu/tema/haz_ventilatorok/hsz_25950-25950.html
https://prohardver.hu/tema/haz_ventilatorok/hsz_25953-25953.html
The guys over there did not really try to prove their point with evidence just said that for example the front 200 mm phanteks fan has low airflow and is loud at it. So they definetly advised me to change the 1x20 front intake to 2x14 with quality fans because I would get much better airflow and overall air cooling performance in the case. Ok they mainly said that the 200 mm fan is not good, they did not have that many problems with the 140mm one, they just said there are many better ones.

I would want to do something like this in the future if my VGA temps will be too high. Do you think this makes sense?


----------



## AlphaC

Mine shipped today (labeled Ryzen ready) and when I opened it from Nans Gaming gear via Amazon I found there was a pair of texturized rubber gloves in the top. What is it for?









edit: Also we ought to have a list of cases that fit it. Fractal Design Define R5 , Fractal Design Define S , Phanteks Enthoo Pro, Phanteks Enthoo Pro M, Phanteks Enthoo Evolv , Cooler Master MasterCase 5 for starters.


----------



## wendigo4700

Is this singletower cpu cooler in top 3 of all singletower cpu air coolers?
I got the cpu cooler in my signature. But quite frankly I'm getting a little tired of how big it is.
So I'm looking for top singletower cooler now.

Other coolers I've looked for, has been Cryorig h7 and Phanteks ph-tc12dx.

Edit: nvm. My pc-case supports coolers up to 165mm, and this power is like 171mm.


----------



## doyll

I suspect it IS the best single tower .. except for Le Grand Macho, the city block size single tower.







These two seem to be the top performing low noise air coolers.

Edit: LOOPILOU, join forum and we can talk more.


----------



## marn3us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I suspect it IS the best single tower .. except for Le Grand Macho, the city block size single tower.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These two seem to be the top performing low noise air coolers.


It's a shame the True Spirit is so tall and I had to go with the Macho Rev.B but in the end it is pretty good as well


----------



## Braaaaap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I suspect it IS the best single tower .. except for Le Grand Macho, the city block size single tower.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These two seem to be the top performing low noise air coolers.
> 
> Edit: LOOPILOU, join forum and we can talk more.


ready to talk more doyll, (loopi)


----------



## Braaaaap

so its down to the looks and performance of the noctua NU-U14S, vs ts140P VS NOCTUA D15S
Going to go through thread real quick


----------



## Braaaaap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wirerat*
> 
> 2nd fan should be around 3-4c better performance. which means it will pass the noctua
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> with less than 2c delta I think I would just take the reduced noise of only needing a single fan. plus this cooler is $54 on Amazon No need to speed $80 on air cooler amymore


i could run two fans in my setup?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Braaaaap*
> 
> so its down to the looks and performance of the noctua NU-U14S, vs ts140P VS NOCTUA D15S
> Going to go through thread real quick


I think TRUE Spirit 140 Power is easily as good and very possible a little better than NH-U14S. I say this because the TS140P TY-147A fan maximum speed is 200rpm slower then U14S's NF-A15 1500rpm fan. Both fans have near identical performance at same rpm. I have tested TS140P with TY-143 2500rpm fan and on I7 920 @ 3.2GHz recorded 8.4c lower temps.

Yes, you could run 2x fans, but adding a 2nd fan only lowers temps 1.65c. Changing to a single TY-143 lowers temps 8.4c at full speed, but that is quite loud. The advantage of TY143 is it performs identical to TY-147A (or NF-A15) at the same rpm .. same airflow and same noise level. All fans I know of are almost inaudible below 1000-1100 rpm and become quite noticable above 1300-1600 rpm. To me 1000-1100 rpm is max I want to listen to in daily use. My extreme use limit is about 1300-1500 rpm for short periods .. like encoding a video for 15 minutes. Not really loud at all, but louder than I like.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Braaaaap*
> 
> i could run two fans in my setup?


With 5x case fans regulated by CPU temp PWM signal you will have plenty of case airflow, even if you put a TY-143 fan on TS140P. You can get the TS1400 on Amazon for £52.10. I have an extra TY-143 you can get.








https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Computers-Accessories/ThermalRight-True-Spirit-140-Power-Thermalright-Cooler/B00IYEEOMO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1496583485&sr=8-1&keywords=true+spirit+140+power

Edit: You might need a PWM "Y" splitter to split the PWM signal for CPU fan and Phanteks fan hub.


----------



## Braaaaap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I think TRUE Spirit 140 Power is easily as good and very possible a little better than NH-U14S. I say this because the TS140P TY-147A fan maximum speed is 200rpm slower then U14S's NF-A15 1500rpm fan. Both fans have near identical performance at same rpm. I have tested TS140P with TY-143 2500rpm fan and on I7 920 @ 3.2GHz recorded 8.4c lower temps.
> 
> Yes, you could run 2x fans, but adding a 2nd fan only lowers temps 1.65c. Changing to a single TY-143 lowers temps 8.4c at full speed, but that is quite loud. The advantage of TY143 is it performs identical to TY-147A (or NF-A15) at the same rpm .. same airflow and same noise level. All fans I know of are almost inaudible below 1000-1100 rpm and become quite noticable above 1300-1600 rpm. To me 1000-1100 rpm is max I want to listen to in daily use. My extreme use limit is about 1300-1500 rpm for short periods .. like encoding a video for 15 minutes. Not really loud at all, but louder than I like.


OK for the sake of efficiency,

key points taken are

*Target for extended daily use = 1000 / 1100 rpm = TS140P (- TY-147A) + (TY-143)

*This will fit over my Dominators on my ASRock x99 ws-e

*It will cope with a 4/0 o/c on Haswell 5960x

*it will fit in my case

OTHER
I have enough pcie slots for choice of 1080 gpu and Intel 750 pcie nvme placement as board has 7 slots to play with, should there be any overhang

_All factor considered and accounted for_?


----------



## Braaaaap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> With 5x case fans regulated by CPU temp PWM signal you will have plenty of case airflow, even if you put a TY-143 fan on TS140P. You can get the TS1400 on Amazon for £52.10. I have an extra TY-143 you can get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Computers-Accessories/ThermalRight-True-Spirit-140-Power-Thermalright-Cooler/B00IYEEOMO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1496583485&sr=8-1&keywords=true+spirit+140+power
> 
> Edit: You might need a PWM "Y" splitter to split the PWM signal for CPU fan and Phanteks fan hub.


Brilliant on offer ty. fortune favours the flexible i suspect...

Will pull trigger if points in my post above are all correct?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Braaaaap*
> 
> OK for the sake of efficiency,
> 
> key points taken are
> 
> *Target for extended daily use = 1000 / 1100 rpm = TS140P (- TY-147A) + (TY-143)
> 
> *This will fit over my Dominators on my ASRock x99 ws-e
> 
> *It will cope with a 4/0 o/c on Haswell 5960x
> 
> *it will fit in my case
> 
> OTHER
> I have enough pcie slots for choice of 1080 gpu and Intel 750 pcie nvme placement as board has 7 slots to play with, should there be any overhang
> 
> _All factor considered and accounted for_?


* Target for extended daily use = 1000-1100 rpm =TS140P w/ TY-17A or TY-143.

TY-147A = 300 - 1300 rpm
TY-143 = 550 - 2500 rpm
TY-143 performs idendtically to TY-147A from 550 - 1300rpm .. maybe a slight difference in sound from ball bearing vs Enhanced Hyper-Flow Bearing (EHFB)

*TRUE Spirit 140 Power is only 53.4 mm front to back. Adding a fan make it 53.4mm center CPU to front of fan. This means it should fit behind RAM with RAM in nearest RAM socket.

Enthoo Primo has 193 mm CPU clearance. That is like 22 mm more than TRUE Spirit need being 171.2 mm tall.


----------



## doyll

Just to muddy the waters a little. The Archon IB-E has same basic cooling ability as TRUE Spirit 140 Power but is 8x 6mm heatpipes and has offset base .. meaning it would clear PCIe sockets.


----------



## Braaaaap

readin the above now


----------



## Braaaaap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Just to muddy the waters a little. The Archon IB-E has same basic cooling ability as TRUE Spirit 140 Power but is 8x 6mm heatpipes and has offset base .. meaning it would clear PCIe sockets.


Nope, i think the colours and performance you have set out in this thread, plus a fan deal we might come to leads me to wanting to pull trig on 140power.
im not mistaken in thinking i will be able to use any of my pcie slots as they all do x16 for a gpu and the intel nvme is gen 3 x4 so that can also go into any of them?
the fact it clears my Ram is the biggie, and will fit into colour scheme well too.


----------



## Braaaaap

ok trigger pulled. now to watch some vids on ideal a/c setups. i think i have seen this discussed on another thread so will locate and plan ( and possibly submit for approval


----------



## doyll




----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Braaaaap*
> 
> ok trigger pulled. now to watch some vids on ideal a/c setups. i think i have seen this discussed on another thread so will locate and plan ( and possibly submit for approval


3x intakes should do very nicely. Primo back is well vented. Don't use top venting as it will most likely draw heated air from GPUs up around the CPU and warm the air going into TS140P. You might like "Ways to Better Cooling" linked in my sig. 1st post is index, click on topic to see it. 5th is a good place to start.


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/3051418/width/850/height/3000


If the chart's source data is correct then the TS 140 Power could be the best outright single tower at sub 1000RPM fan speed.

I put up a preliminary review on OCN's review section but due to Gigabyte's slow updates on X370 Gaming 5 with respect to CPU p-states I haven't bothered to CPU overclock yet. On AIDA64 stability test at stock in open air (no case) the TS Power @ *700RPM* is cooling a 95W TDP Ryzen 7 1700X to 45°C as per hwinfo64 (V_core ~ 1.225 to 1.25V , V_Core SVI2 ~ 1.212V , CPU+SOC package power ~128W).

The limiting factor is not my CPU temp but the motherboard VRM temp. When the TS 140 Power spins low RPM the VRM hits 60°C+ due to Gigabyte's decision to cut a hole in the middle of the heatsink for a heatpipe but not actually put a heatpipe







. The I/O cover doesn't help either.

I should probably adjust the fan curve.

The TS 140 _Direct_ is a puzzling decision on their part likely due to cost cutting (i.e. direct touch heatpipe + only 5x 6mm heatpipes) but the 161mm height clearance means people with trendy mainstream cases such as the NZXT Source S340 (overhyped just for steel panels IMO) or In Win 303 can fit it.

It should be interesting what they bring out vs the next gen Noctua 120mm and 140mm coolers , Cryorig H7 Quad Lumi, etc.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> If the chart's source data is correct then the TS 140 Power could be the best outright single tower at sub 1000RPM fan speed.
> 
> I put up a preliminary review on OCN's review section but due to Gigabyte's slow updates on X370 Gaming 5 with respect to CPU p-states I haven't bothered to CPU overclock yet. On AIDA64 stability test at stock in open air (no case) the TS Power @ *700RPM* is cooling a 95W TDP Ryzen 7 1700X to 45°C as per hwinfo64 (V_core ~ 1.225 to 1.25V , V_Core SVI2 ~ 1.212V , CPU+SOC package power ~128W).
> 
> The limiting factor is not my CPU temp but the motherboard VRM temp. When the TS 140 Power spins low RPM the VRM hits 60°C+ due to Gigabyte's decision to cut a hole in the middle of the heatsink for a heatpipe but not actually put a heatpipe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . The I/O cover doesn't help either.
> 
> I should probably adjust the fan curve.
> 
> The TS 140 Direct is a puzzling decision on their part likely due to cost cutting (i.e. direct touch heatpipe + only 5x 6mm heatpipes) but the 161mm height clearance means people with trendy mainstream cases such as the NZXT Source S340 (overhyped just for steel panels IMO) or In Win 303 can fit it.


I wish the testing you referenced was done on a higher heat source. They did a very good job with their 750.








My on use and testing of TS140P has shown me it works even better at high loads, like on i7 [email protected] using TY-143 fan @ 2500rpm gave me about 9c lower temps than at 1200rpm (TY-147A speeds).

I've ran into similar motherboard cooling issues on my old X58 mobos. VRMs ran hotter at idle than at full load, even keeping the cooler fan at 700 they were about 2c higher at idle.

I agree, TS140 Direct is directed at mid-level priced builders who want good quiet cooling. I was very surprised at how well it does. The direct pipes cool as well as other coolers with solid copper bases. The Macho direct does well to with the same 5x 6mm heatpipes.


----------



## AlphaC

I will try to get some high TDP testing done once Gigabyte fixes their garbage BIOs settings for CPU









Right now it consists of fixed v-core or "auto" with offset v-core like we're in 2010. I'd been advised by rv8000 on this forum that in order for the board to downclock at idle with offsets you need to set 0.25 or 0.75 fractional multipliers such as 3.725 or 3.775 GHz. No switching frequency, no disable c6 power state, current limit, disabling of spread spectrum, or anything like that.

Of course that involves cranking up the fan profile to 1000-1300RPM since the VRM will be cooking a bit. (For comparison my 6 phase with doubled low side Z77 board with 1.3V resulted in ~57°C VRM temps maxed on 30°C ambient _in a case_, so this is worse even though the components are better).

The board isn't looking good for that sort of thing since even the PCH and SOC VRM (at 1.1V which is low for these chips) is at 50 degrees celsius just looping AIDA64.

Due to the XFR on Ryzen 7 1700X being 3900MHz and the temps being so low with the TS140Power , the limitation is power. If I start to mess with CPU clocks (and fail to get 3.85 or 3.9GHz <1.3V) without p-states then I will destroy the idle efficiency since offset will likely not adjust idle voltages to the extent SenseMi/PurePower/XFR will. Ryzen 7 1700X has XFR 3900MHz , 3500MHz all core XFR , 3400MHz base (Ryzen 7 1800X is 4.1GHz XFR, 3.7GHz all core XFR, 3.6GHz base).


----------



## Braaaaap

got my cooler in the post the other day!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Braaaaap*
> 
> got my cooler in the post the other day!


So?
You know posting things like that can get you banned for cruel and detestably treatment of others.


----------



## Braaaaap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> So?
> You know posting things like that can get you banned for cruel and detestably treatment of others.


I beg pardon?
merely sharing my excitement of receiving a product that will enable me to get building after much research ( and help) in the planning stage.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Braaaaap*
> 
> I beg pardon?
> merely sharing my excitement of receiving a product that will enable me to get building after much research ( and help) in the planning stage.


:
Sorry, I was joking about having the cooler but not sharring how it was performing for you.








Like saying it's not real unless poster shows pics of it.


----------



## Braaaaap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> :
> Sorry, I was joking about having the cooler but not sharring how it was performing for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like saying it's not real unless poster shows pics of it.


ah no i will let all know how badly i do the build. just have not finished getting to grip with airflow concepts yet to start building.
im sure i could bung a few fans etc in and get a functional solution but would like to get the best result for the components i have shelled out on


----------



## Braaaaap

some pics of bits for the build.


----------



## Braaaaap

the motherboard deal

psu also a steal deal


----------



## doyll

Okay, I believe you.















Any problems or questions just ask.


----------



## doyll

Definitely a good price on motherboard and a real steal for PSU.








Does that motherboard have 2x PWM CPU fan headers? If not you might want to get a PWM 'Y' Splitter so you can control the Phanteks fan hub for Phanteks case fans and fan.


----------



## Braaaaap

I will chekc if it does Doyll and get back. also just picked up a Sammy ks7000 55 inch as a monitor for this rig just over 400 pounds so rainbow almost complete


----------



## Braaaaap

i best start a build thread to keep this thread specific


----------



## doyll

Please post link to your build thread


----------



## Braaaaap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Please post link to your build thread


http://www.overclock.net/t/1632091/phanteks-enthoo-primo-air-cooled-build-with-mainly-used-on-sale-parts#post_26154576

i have answered the wuestion on the mb headers in post two Doyll


----------



## Elrick

Desperate to find/buy this;
*
AMD Ryzen AM4 THERMALRIGHT Mounting Kit.*

Looked everywhere on the NET and there is absolutely nothing, sweet FA







.

PLEASE can anyone here provide a link to any place, to purchase this Mounting Kit - that will be able to be shipped to Convict Town?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Desperate to find/buy this;
> *
> AMD Ryzen AM4 THERMALRIGHT Mounting Kit.*
> 
> Looked everywhere on the NET and there is absolutely nothing, sweet FA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> PLEASE can anyone here provide a link to any place, to purchase this Mounting Kit - that will be able to be shipped to Convict Town?


I think this will solve your problems. It has email address for both Europe versus everywhere else.








http://thermalright.com/2017/02/21/thermalright-amd-am4-cpu-mount-upgrade/


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> http://thermalright.com/2017/02/21/thermalright-amd-am4-cpu-mount-upgrade/


Thank you doyll, have sent off an email today looking forward to their response.

Still trying to avoid buying a Noctua kit, even though they provide ready fitting AM4 coolers here in Convict Town.


----------



## AshBorer

Hi. Currently i'm running a 7700k @ 4.8 GHz with a voltage of 1.27

My Noctua NH-U12P SE2 keeps it just below 80C during a synthetic load like prime95. In games its usually in the mid 60s maybe low 70s with the expectation being BF1 which always pushes it up to around 75-76C.

I was wondering if upgrading to the True Spirit 140 Power could give me some better cooling power in order to push 5.0Ghz under acceptable temps? What would be the best resource to compare these coolers? Just looking at the spec sheet i'm sure the TS14P is better. The NH-U12P only has four 6mm heatpipes, while the TS140P has six 8mm ones. The TS140P also has eight more fins. Would this be a worthwhile upgrade or would the differences in temperature be relatively small? I would buy a second fan for it just because only having one fan makes it look incomplete to me and that would annoy me >.<, this would maybe keep it one or two degrees cooler than stock from what I've read.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AshBorer*
> 
> Hi. Currently i'm running a 7700k @ 4.8 GHz with a voltage of 1.27
> 
> My Noctua NH-U12P SE2 keeps it just below 80C during a synthetic load like prime95. In games its usually in the mid 60s maybe low 70s with the expectation being BF1 which always pushes it up to around 75-76C.
> 
> I was wondering if upgrading to the True Spirit 140 Power could give me some better cooling power in order to push 5.0Ghz under acceptable temps? What would be the best resource to compare these coolers? Just looking at the spec sheet i'm sure the TS14P is better. The NH-U12P only has four 6mm heatpipes, while the TS140P has six 8mm ones. The TS140P also has eight more fins. Would this be a worthwhile upgrade or would the differences in temperature be relatively small? I would buy a second fan for it just because only having one fan makes it look incomplete to me and that would annoy me >.<, this would maybe keep it one or two degrees cooler than stock from what I've read.


TRUE Spirit 140 Power will definitely cool / remove more heat than NH-U12P can. But it is wide and tall so be sure it will fit in your case and not block your PCie sockets. Also, it uses more airflow than you probably use through your U12P so you might need to speed up your case fans curves or possible add another case fan.

What case and motherbaord are you using?


----------



## AshBorer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> TRUE Spirit 140 Power will definitely cool / remove more heat than NH-U12P can. But it is wide and tall so be sure it will fit in your case and not block your PCie sockets. Also, it uses more airflow than you probably use through your U12P so you might need to speed up your case fans curves or possible add another case fan.
> 
> What case and motherbaord are you using?


Case is a Rosewill Cullinan which supports up to 180mm high coolers, which is enough room for the TS140P

Mobo is a MSI Z270 Gaming Pro Carbon. I did not check the compatibility with this yet. I am about to leave for work so I will check later.

There is quite a bit of airflow, I think I will be ok: http://i.imgur.com/OAZ3tNJ.jpg


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AshBorer*
> 
> Case is a Rosewill Cullinan which supports up to 180mm high coolers, which is enough room for the TS140P
> 
> Mobo is a MSI Z270 Gaming Pro Carbon. I did not check the compatibility with this yet. I am about to leave for work so I will check later.
> 
> There is quite a bit of airflow, I think I will be ok: http://i.imgur.com/OAZ3tNJ.jpg


A little motherboard and cooler scalling shows you should have 10-15mm clearance from GPU in top x16 slot and sied of TRUE Spirit 140 Power.

You are probably right about the airflow. If not it's not a big deal to mount another fan or change fan rpm curves.


----------



## AshBorer

Thanks for the help in such a timely manner. It is ordered and will arrive in about a week . Also got a second ty147a and a fan splitter.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AshBorer*
> 
> Thanks for the help in such a timely manner. It is ordered and will arrive in about a week . Also got a second ty147a and a fan splitter.


Please let us know how it all works out. 2nd TY-147A for push / pull? You will not notice much difference in temps .. if any.
I only say 1.6c difference on i7 920 @ 4.2GHz. Running a TY-143 at 2500rpm gave me 8c better cooling, .. along with a headache from all it's noise at 2500rpm. But if kept below about 1800rpm is not too loud .. and 1150rpm and below is near silent.


----------



## AshBorer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Please let us know how it all works out. 2nd TY-147A for push / pull? You will not notice much difference in temps .. if any.
> I only say 1.6c difference on i7 920 @ 4.2GHz. Running a TY-143 at 2500rpm gave me 8c better cooling, .. along with a headache from all it's noise at 2500rpm. But if kept below about 1800rpm is not too loud .. and 1150rpm and below is near silent.


Yes push/pull. I know it wont do a whole lot, but just having one fan wouldn't look right to me after all these years of having a push/pull config on my nh-u12p. I guess its more of an OCD type thing.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AshBorer*
> 
> Yes push/pull. I know it wont do a whole lot, but just having one fan wouldn't look right to me after all these years of having a push/pull config on my nh-u12p. I guess its more of an OCD type thing.


All joking intended but I tink it's more a STPD than and OCD type of thing.








Another option would be to use the 2nd TY-147A as rear exhaust running same fan curve as cooler fan.


----------



## AlphaC

My Ryzen Update: Previously I wrote that it was ~45 degrees Celsius on a Ryzen 7 1700X but it turns out both hwinfo64 , AIDA64 , and the motherboard itself (in BIOS) all report temperature wrong. mus1mus on OCN informed me there was a roughly 15 degree C error for Gigabyte X370 K7 & G5.

T_die in hwinfo64 for Ryzen 7 "X" CPUs (after 20°C offsets craziness from AMD relative to T_ctrl) hovers around *62°C* with a "normal" fan profile that results in ~ 950RPM after 1 hour AIDA64 stability test (open air , ambient ~ 83°F/ 28°C as last night was a hotter temp) , all stock with XFR enabled (~1.225V under load per CPU-Z / hwinfo64, 1.1V SOC ).

As stated before, the X370 Gaming 5 VRM is hotter than my CPU...

I still have my 3.925GHz (39.25x multiplier to be more accurate) screenshot from Windows 10 PE (screenshot dated June 9), but I didn't notate the ambient temp that night:


Spoiler: Ryzen 39.25x multi


----------



## doyll

@AlphaC
What do temps do if you increase fan speed to say 1150rpm?


----------



## AlphaC

I will test again with the fan curve adjusted a bit to get ~1150 RPM.

30 min 1hr , stock clocks (3.5GHz XFR all core @ 1.1225V) with 1.1V SOC (DDR4 3200MHz CL16-16-16-38 @ 1.35V in BIOS) is about 59 °C T_die , aka 44 °C "CPU" according to motherboard BIOS , VRM temp 60 °C as well
--> ~1180 RPM
--> ambient 82 °F / 28 °C , no case


Or do you want it with the higher 3.925GHz heat load? (work in progress at about 1200RPM since I have 50°C set to 100 % PWM duty cycle)
After 1hour Looking like 1240 RPM yields about 70°C T_die (V_core between 1.332 and 1.168, average 1.347V BUT V_Core SVI2 reports about 1.3V)


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







39.75x multi requires 1.38V , 1 hr AIDA64 ... will work on this with ~ 1250RPM

I can boot at 4GHz ~1.4Vish but I can't stress it much , only cinebench.

Can also boot at 41.00x multi with fixed voltage ~ 1.41V but I can't stress it


----------



## doyll

Before you said:
_"hovers around 62°C with a "normal" fan profile that results in ~ 950RPM after 1 hour AIDA64 stability test (open air , ambient ~ 83°F_
/ 28°C"
I was only curious what the temp is if fan is running about 1150rpm. On my systems the TS140R (or most any cooler) run significantly cooler at 1150 than at 950 at full load. At 1150rpm I an hear the fans, but it's not loud.


----------



## AlphaC

Prime95 seems to require more cooling, below is an 8 hour run with results similar to the 1 hour AIDA64 @ 3.9GHz , except with 38.75 multiplier



The gist is ~ 70°C CPU T_Die , same as AIDA64

I have to adjust my fan profile but I don't think 1150RPM is workable for that kind of voltage.

I'm not sure why there is a temperature spike to ~ 80 °C but that might have been me opening hwinfo64.

I will run it again at stock and try to get the 1150RPM across the entire span of fan (or whatever 80% PWM fan speed is)


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> Prime95 seems to require more cooling, below is an 8 hour run with results similar to the 1 hour AIDA64 @ 3.9GHz , except with 38.75 multiplier
> 
> 
> 
> The gist is ~ 70°C CPU T_Die , same as AIDA64
> 
> I have to adjust my fan profile but I don't think 1150RPM is workable for that kind of voltage.
> 
> I'm not sure why there is a temperature spike to ~ 80 °C but that might have been me opening hwinfo64.
> 
> I will run it again at stock and try to get the 1150RPM across the entire span of fan (or whatever 80% PWM fan speed is)


Sorry, you lost me. Before you said running fan at 950rpm resulted in 62c. Now you say you don't think 1150rpm is workable.









If it's because have now oveclocked to higher temps that's fine. It really isn't important, just curiosity on my part as to the difference between 950ropm and 1150rpm ish.


----------



## AlphaC

I don't think 1150RPM is workable when pushing voltage.

62°C is with stock 1.225V


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> I don't think 1150RPM is workable when pushing voltage.
> 
> 62°C is with stock 1.225V


What was the voltage when our recorded 62c @ 950rpm?


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> What was the voltage when our recorded 62c @ 950rpm?


same 1.225V (stock volts) but due to the way the Ryzen auto voltage works it adjusts based on load (so prime cites 1.248V or something like that)

Here's prime 95 12 hours on stock volts 80% PWM (1120RPM or so)
ambient is a bit lower ~ 80°F / ~ 27 °C





Notice in every case the VRM on my motherboard is higher than the CPU T_Die. It's a shame.

Ryzen above 1.35V probably would need a 240 (2x120mm) or 360 (3x120mm) copper radiator to stay below 70°C.

P.S. Do note that I am using Noctua NT-H1 from my NH-D14 instead of the Chill factor packet. It was out of convenience since I just squirted a pea size amount of the NT_H1 paste and applied the heatsink instead of spreading it. If I used Chill Factor then it would need to be somehow applied neatly , which is difficult in packet form.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> same 1.225V (stock volts) but due to the way the Ryzen auto voltage works it adjusts based on load (so prime cites 1.248V or something like that)
> 
> Here's prime 95 12 hours on stock volts 80% PWM (1120RPM or so)
> ambient is a bit lower ~ 80°F / ~ 27 °C
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notice in every case the VRM on my motherboard is higher than the CPU T_Die. It's a shame.
> 
> Ryzen above 1.35V probably would need a 240 (2x120mm) or 360 (3x120mm) copper radiator to stay below 70°C.
> 
> P.S. Do note that I am using Noctua NT-H1 from my NH-D14 instead of the Chill factor packet. It was out of convenience since I just squirted a pea size amount of the NT_H1 paste and applied the heatsink instead of spreading it. If I used Chill Factor then it would need to be somehow applied neatly , which is difficult in packet form.


That's more than I expected 51c rather than 62c @ 28c vs 51c @ 27c .. 10 c lower at 1120rpm than at 950rpm.

What is your opinon of sound profile at 1120rpm?
If you can stand more noise a TY-143 fan will lower high voltage loads about 9c.


----------



## baii

How much gap was there when you install the cooler plate on to the mount. I use the am4 kit on my macho and the gap is about 1/4 inch? Would that make to much pressure? Already forgot how it us when I have it on Intel.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *baii*
> 
> How much gap was there when you install the cooler plate on to the mount. I use the am4 kit on my macho and the gap is about 1/4 inch? Would that make to much pressure? Already forgot how it us when I have it on Intel.


Sorry, I do not understand what 'the cooler plate' is. Can you tell us the name as it is labeled in manual?


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> That's more than I expected 51c rather than 62c @ 28c vs 51c @ 27c .. 10 c lower at 1120rpm than at 950rpm.
> 
> What is your opinon of sound profile at 1120rpm?
> If you can stand more noise a TY-143 fan will lower high voltage loads about 9c.


It's not 51°C , the motherboard reports CPU temps wrong as I stated before.

It's 67.8°C max T_Die in that picture , with average 61.5°C (which after 12 hours of Prime95 should be the temp I would look at). Might be a spike in temps from AVX or something.

Sound profile is on par with my NH-D14 < 1100RPM (being used on another system) , albeit the NH_D14 is in a high airflow case with mesh on top and front (rather than open air).


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> It's not 51°C , the motherboard reports CPU temps wrong as I stated before.
> 
> It's 67.8°C max T_Die in that picture , with average 61.5°C (which after 12 hours of Prime95 should be the temp I would look at). Might be a spike in temps from AVX or something.
> 
> Sound profile is on par with my NH-D14 < 1100RPM (being used on another system) , albeit the NH_D14 is in a high airflow case with mesh on top and front (rather than open air).


I'm done trying to talk about this with you. It seems everything you post is only half of the info needed. There is no reason to be so cryptic answering such simple questions.


----------



## AshBorer

Update: My TS140P arrived today and I installed it.

For reference, my old cooler was a noctua NH-U12P SE2 pictured here:

Here is my PC with the new cooler in. It looks hella badass, I'm so done with those stupid noctua colors!

and here is another pic with the noctua sitting beside it:


I didn't really do a ton of thermal testing prior to installing this (lazy lol, I'm sorry), all I did was run aida64 system stability test for ~15min and look at temps on hwmonitor. I have a 7700k @ 4.8GHz/1.27V. With the noctua the hottest core was topping out at 77C, and the entire package as a whole topped out at 79C. With the TS140P the hottest core (both times core #3) was topping out at 75C and the entire package topped out at 75C as well. I had the fans running at 1300 RPM for both tests.

So overall I'm somewhere between 2-4C cooler under full load (again, based on just a quick lazy test) so that's nice. And what is even better is that my PC is now sooo quiet when idling. No more constant whirring from the noctua fans running at 1300rpm all the time - these TY147As slow down to 300rpm and make the case fans the loudest thing in my build by far







The old fans would drown out the case fans haha. Idle temps are the exact same .... 29-30C

Also, there is SOOO little room between the cooler and my glass side panel. Like, i'm pretty sure the fans are basically touching the glass (though it went on easily so maybe theres just like less than .25mm haha)


----------



## GraveNoX

Anyone recommends TY-150 instead of the TY-147A included fan ?
TY-147A can be mounted on the left of the heatsink so the air goes into the cooler? I'm asking because very little air passes through the fins of the cooler so having a vent that cools the air after the cooler is pointless.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GraveNoX*
> 
> Anyone recommends TY-150 instead of the TY-147A included fan ?
> TY-147A can be mounted on the left of the heatsink so the air goes into the cooler? I'm asking because very little air passes through the fins of the cooler so having a vent that cools the air after the cooler is pointless.


I would not replace the TY-147A with TY-150.

If you are referring to the rear vent it should be exhaust to flow the heated air coming off of CPU cooler out the back of case and away.

What is your your system,hat is your fan placement and what are your temps?

You might find "Ways to Better Cooling" link in my sig of interest. 1st post is index, click on topic to see it. 5th topic is a good place to start.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

Does anyone know if "true spirit 140 power" was always compatible with AM4 or did they add something to the newer versions to make it compatible ?
I am moving back to air and not sure if all of them fit, asked thermalright aswell, but no answer yet, since it`s the weekend.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> Does anyone know if "true spirit 140 power" was always compatible with AM4 or did they add something to the newer versions to make it compatible ?
> I am moving back to air and not sure if all of them fit, asked thermalright aswell, but no answer yet, since it`s the weekend.


Pre-AM4 mounts do not have the 54.18x90mm AM4 holes. They only have the older 48x96mm holes.


----------



## baii

I bought one @ amazon and it has the new am4 mount


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> Does anyone know if "true spirit 140 power" was always compatible with AM4 or did they add something to the newer versions to make it compatible ?
> I am moving back to air and not sure if all of them fit, asked thermalright aswell, but no answer yet, since it`s the weekend.


If you get one built in 2017 it will have Ryzen ready listed on the box. Mine did.

Just be aware that when they list 171mm height, they mean it. It's not like the CRYORIG R1 or Phanteks PH-TC14PEwhere you can fidget with fans.

They could have better compatibility if it was 165 or 170mm. The TRUE Spirit 140 Direct seems too cheapened and downsized to me. They could have left it at 6 heatpipes.

----

Also I'm not sure if this was posted but 160W , 30dB limit from hardware.info
https://us.hardware.info/reviews/6190/8/29-cpu-coolers-reviewed[email protected]-10-cm



and coolingtechnique

http://www.coolingtechnique.com/recensioni/air-cooling/dissipatori/1619-recensione-thermalright-true-spirit-140-power.html?start=6


----------



## outofmyheadyo

U14S seems to be the best choice in price vs performance then.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> The TRUE Spirit 140 Direct seems too cheapened and downsized to me. They could have left it at 6 heatpipes.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it has to do with direct contact vs copper base design and heat radiation. 5x 6mm pipes are 30mm wide. 6x are 36mm. Few CPU chips are that big .. which means heat spread from CPU chip does not effectively spread out to as many direct contact heatpipes as it can heatpipes in solid copper base.
Click to expand...


----------



## AlphaC

http://awardfabrik.de/roundup-januar-2015-6-kuehler-von-scythe-phantek-cryorig-und-thermalright-im-test/16

Delta temps on [email protected]

It's clearly optimized for silence, they had about 3-4dB to work with

Not sure about this review since NH-D9L twin tower 92mm compares with NH-D15 140mm twin tower..., but it's just an additional datapoint to the site's 2014 overview


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> U14S seems to be the best choice in price vs performance then.


I had to use it simply because there were already four in the house used in various OLDER Intel set-ups that have now been decommissioned.

Bought a new Ryzen 1600X but forgot that it didn't come with it's own heat-sink (yes, I'm old and stupid) but he still needed something to cool his new CPU so I bought some AM4 attachments off Flebay but it'll take about a fortnight's time to get here, so I had to rush on down to my local bricks & mortar outfit to see what's available.

They had one box in stock (surprised) for the U14S and I was racing back home for him to put it all together.

The prize of having kids, you never break your promises under any circumstance, that is the catch-22 to endure for the rest of your life.


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> Does anyone know if "true spirit 140 power" was always compatible with AM4 or did they add something to the newer versions to make it compatible ?
> I am moving back to air and not sure if all of them fit, asked thermalright aswell, but no answer yet, since it`s the weekend.


Drill the holes or pay Thermalright to send you the new bracket, you pay shipping only, but that's rather expensive in EU for example.
The problem with Noctua is it's freakin' expensive which means performance/price is quite poor and the colors aren't for everyone. Where as similar TR cooler costs 2/3rds the price and performs as well if not better depending on model and comes universal black/white themed most of them.


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> Drill the holes or pay Thermalright to send you the new bracket, you pay shipping only, but that's rather expensive in EU for example.
> The problem with Noctua is it's freakin' expensive which means performance/price is quite poor and the colors aren't for everyone. Where as similar TR cooler costs 2/3rds the price and performs as well if not better depending on model and comes universal black/white themed most of them.


Well the main problem with Noctua is _also_ the brown and flesh tone everywhere if you have a windowed or tempered glass case (I do not).

The redux line looks to be a decent change. If it were a monochrome scheme that were different than other manufacturers it'd still be workable. It's a shame that the vibration dampening corners are a missing option on the redux line though.
* I'm not sure how much the Flow Acceleration Channels (on the blades , likely replacing the Vortex-Control Notches) , Stepped Inlet Design (on fan frame inlet) , Inner Surface Microstructures (on fan frame) actually help on the NF-A14.

The Noiseblocker eloop is expensive too , but it's got a unique look that you can tell right away even if the colors are normal.


----------



## JackCY

If you want Noctua fans then IPCC is about the only option, full black, remove the brown corners, I use silicone to attach fans anyway not screws, the dampening pads if present don't touch case anyway or help either if you screw the fan instead.

I'm quite happy with my HR02, the 140 power is probably better but was harder to get and more expensive as well as fairly tall.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> If you want Noctua fans then IPCC is about the only option, full black, remove the brown corners, I use silicone to attach fans anyway not screws, the dampening pads if present don't touch case anyway or help either if you screw the fan instead.
> 
> I'm quite happy with my HR02, the 140 power is probably better but was harder to get and more expensive as well as fairly tall.


HR-02 / Macho with 140mm fans (except Direct) are possibly the most sold all around cooler in Europe. Great cooling and very quiet.


----------



## GraveNoX

Can I use TY-143 SQ with this cooler with the included clips ? I can't find the non-square version anymore in my country.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GraveNoX*
> 
> Can I use TY-143 SQ with this cooler with the included clips ? I can't find the non-square version anymore in my country.


What country are you in?
What websites can you buy from?


----------



## GraveNoX

Can I use TY-143 SQ with this cooler with the included clips ?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GraveNoX*
> 
> Can I use TY-143 SQ with this cooler with the included clips ?


Why didn't you tell us what country you are in?

But the answer to your question is no. TRUE Spirit 140 Power clips are for fans with 105mm mounting hole spacing.
120mm fans and round fans use 105mm spaced mounting holes. TY-147A and TY-143 have 105mm hole spacing.
Square 140mm fans have 124.5mm hole spacing.


----------



## GraveNoX

Romania. Thanks for your answer.


----------



## JackCY

You can probably use them just that the clip won't fall into the screw holes on fan, but if the fan has enough cut out the clip will get inside the fan side and hold it anyway.



It has some cut out on side for the clip to get in there but it's not much. All in all it's totally DIYable or just make a new clip or zip tie the fan etc.
If you cut that one "wall" around the screw hole on each corner the clip should go in just fine. 10min dremel time for me.
By default no, but easy to mod.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GraveNoX*
> 
> Romania. Thanks for your answer.


Your Thermalright distributor is PC-Coolers. Their website is http://pc-coolers.ro/reselleri/ and they have a long list of e-tailers showing below their retail stores list.

The first few I tried show TY-143 being sold.
https://www.altshop.ro/ventilatoare-carcase/ventilator-140-mm-thermalright-ty-143--5348

http://www.atexpc.ro/produs/60781-ventilatoare-si-coolere-pc-thermalright-ty-143

Maybe JackCY could modify the square ones, but I have my doubts. The TY-14 SQ have a very different frame than the round TY-143 does. If you have to use square one you can use zipties to put it on cooler.
http://www.overclock.net/t/753254/ziptie-screw/0_20


----------



## C1v1cC0n

Mines still working great on my 4790k @ 4.7ghz at 1.3v with temps rarely going above 65c. Will be sad to retire it whenever I decide to maybe go Ice Lake


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *C1v1cC0n*
> 
> Mines still working great on my 4790k @ 4.7ghz at 1.3v with temps rarely going above 65c. Will be sad to retire it whenever I decide to maybe go Ice Lake
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


And it will continue to work great for more years than you will most likely be using it.








It all depends on how bit the IceLake IHS will be.


----------



## AshBorer

How does the TS140P compare to the Le Grand Macho? Why get one over the other?


----------



## AlphaC

Le Grand Macho may have more interference on LGA2011 or quad channel memory motherboards

The TS 140 Power is taller (by 12mm) and doesn't have an offset base. The one good thing is it is slimmer as the fin area is mostly vertical.

Performance-wise the Le Grand Macho should be better by at least a few degrees due to more fin area.


----------



## Abula

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> Performance-wise the Le Grand Macho should be better by at least a few degrees due to more fin area.


Perforamnce between Macho, True Spirit, Le Grand Macho and Silver Arrow is very similar in my experience, probably Le Grand Macho on very low rpms have the advantage with the wider fin spread, but at 1k rpms all perform very similar, 1C or 2C is the most i seen in my testing, but to me its the size of the bottom contact, i feel we have reached a thermal breakpoint where no matter the size the outcome is very similar, im very eager to see new coolers for threadripper with bigger bottom base plate to see if this increase allows better thermal conductivity due to the size alone.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AshBorer*
> 
> How does the TS140P compare to the Le Grand Macho? Why get one over the other?


TRUE Spirit 140 Power has a little more cooling ability, but the real difference is PCIe socket, RAM and height differences.

As Abula said, LGM with it's larger fin area and spacing is a little better at lower rpm while TS140P is better at higher rpm, especially with higher airflow with like TY-143 fan/s I have not tested LGM with TY-143 fan.


----------



## AshBorer

Love the way the cooler is illuminated by my case







Those heat pipes look awesome, and perform just as well - I plan on sticking with this as long as I can


----------



## doyll

The silver tops of heatpipes sticking thorugh black top fin really do look good with the black and white fan.


----------



## ThomasD

So my AiO (Corsair 110i GT) recently gave up the ghost (some sort of flow issue inside the rad.) Needing to get the machine up and running ASAP I slapped in a CM 212 EVO and went shopping for alternatives. Since I have no need for major overclock, and the CM really wasn't doing all that bad, I though I go back to the simplicity and reliability of air cooling.

Chose the True Spirit 140 Power, but rather than the stock fan, I rigged up mounting hardware (bent threaded rod and wingnuts) for the two Phanteks F140-MPs that I previously had on the Corsair. My rig is an 4790k Oc'd to 4.7 GHz at just under 1.28 v, in an NZXT 820. The MPs are slightly thicker than the stock fan, so clearance with tall RAM is snug.

The Phanteks fans are unnoticeable to my ears (chassis is under the desk) at full speed so I keep them there. Under normal operation I keep the chassis fans at 25%, but during stress testing will putt them all at max.

Idle temps are now 29-30 deg. C (one degree below the MoBo), and stress testing in AIDA64 (30 min run) yields an average max CPU temps of 72 degrees with no cores ever going above 77 deg. C.

This is a seriously efficient cooler for both it's size and it's price.


----------



## doyll

Thanks for the input @ThomasD








Just curious, how much difference in temps did you see between the stock TY-147A and the 2x PH-F140MP ? I've used TY-143 2500rpm fan/s and saw little difference between 1 and 2 fans, more at idle. They are real beasts and of course get loud when spun up but gained like 9c better cooling at fulls speed versus 1200rpm. At 11-1200rpm they are almost silent, even at14-1500rpm they re not loud at all .. but at 2500rpm.


----------



## ThomasD

I'm rather retentive, so anything that can be run push pull will be run push pull.







Sorry to say that I'm also lazy and just wasn't curious enough to try the stock fan first.

Maybe if the stock fan clips supported standard 140 mm mounting holes (I'm talking to YOU Themralright) I'd gladly try swapping the MPs out for the TY, but my Jerry rigged mounting system is just too darn tedious to install. And given that everything is working as desired my willingness to mess with it cannot get much lower.

Here's a crappy cell phone pic


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThomasD*
> 
> I'm rather retentive, so anything that can be run push pull will be run push pull.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to say that I'm also lazy and just wasn't curious enough to try the stock fan first.
> 
> Maybe if the stock fan clips supported standard 140 mm mounting holes (I'm talking to YOU Themralright) I'd gladly try swapping the MPs out for the TY, but my Jerry rigged mounting system is just too darn tedious to install. And given that everything is working as desired my willingness to mess with it cannot get much lower.
> 
> Here's a crappy cell phone pic


Lazy? I'm easily just as lazy. I have same cooler, fans and even PH-F140-HP_II (same as PH-F140MP but 120mm mounting holes) I could mount up and test.









Don't yell at Thermalright because you gave the wrong Phanteks.







I think Phanteks PH-F140HP_II cooler fans will fit with Thermalright mounting clips. I know Thermalright cooler fans fit on Phantkes coolers .. and Cryorig and Noctua.

Look good, even with carpy pic.


----------



## AlphaC

Found this old review...
http://www.tomshardware.de/cpu-cooler-cpu-kuhler-cooling-kuhlung-overclocking,testberichte-241565-11.html


----------



## AshBorer

I'm the same way with wanting my stuff to be push pull out when possible haha. See my image above, I just went with a second TY47-A though.


----------



## ThomasD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AshBorer*
> 
> I'm the same way with wanting my stuff to be push pull out when possible haha. See my image above, I just went with a second TY47-A though.


Yep. I'd have bought a second TY-147 if not for already having the two MPs. My older son has an AiO that's been running pretty much 24/7 for over three years. In the near future I might pro-actively swap that out for another one of these coolers. Then I'll have the two fans my sickness requires.


----------



## GraveNoX

Finally got TY-143 to add to my TS140P and i'm disappointed, it's noisy even at lowest speed.
I'm using TY-147A to pull air from heatsink.
I noticed something strange, when I speed up TY-143, the TY-147A raises to around 1450rpm (from 1350), basically TY-143 blows air into TY-147A and it makes run faster and it stays there, not just for few seconds, this should be bad for the TY-147A.
Maybe my fan controller run it at 1100rpm+ like I've seen on a review http://www.dvtests.com/thermalright-ty-143-test-review/
5V = 1170 RPM which is kinda bad
Didn't tested through my motherboard (Asus C6H), because it goes to 100% when I power it on.
On my system, I don't know which speed is running at 5V. I will test in a few days.

Also TY-143 should not be used with dust filters or pulling air from rads. It needs free space to get air from, because the noise increases dramatically.


----------



## GraveNoX

Here it shows TY-143 starts at 1065RPM http://www.coolingtechnique.com/recensioni/air-cooling/dissipatori/1321-recensione-thermalright-silver-arrow-sb-e-extreme.html?start=4
What should I use to get 600RPM ? What fan controller should I buy ? I currently use Scythe kaze q-12.


----------



## Abula

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GraveNoX*
> 
> Here it shows TY-143 starts at 1065RPM http://www.coolingtechnique.com/recensioni/air-cooling/dissipatori/1321-recensione-thermalright-silver-arrow-sb-e-extreme.html?start=4
> What should I use to get 600RPM ? What fan controller should I buy ? I currently use Scythe kaze q-12.


I was able to reach the 600rpm under 0% PWM on an MSI GTX1080 with a Prolimatech MK26, with FanXpert3 you can run close, around 660rpms.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GraveNoX*
> 
> Finally got TY-143 to add to my TS140P and i'm disappointed, it's noisy even at lowest speed.
> I'm using TY-147A to pull air from heatsink.
> I noticed something strange, when I speed up TY-143, the TY-147A raises to around 1450rpm (from 1350), basically TY-143 blows air into TY-147A and it makes run faster and it stays there, not just for few seconds, this should be bad for the TY-147A.
> Maybe my fan controller run it at 1100rpm+ like I've seen on a review http://www.dvtests.com/thermalright-ty-143-test-review/
> 5V = 1170 RPM which is kinda bad
> Didn't tested through my motherboard (Asus C6H), because it goes to 100% when I power it on.
> On my system, I don't know which speed is running at 5V. I will test in a few days.
> 
> Also TY-143 should not be used with dust filters or pulling air from rads. It needs free space to get air from, because the noise increases dramatically.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GraveNoX*
> 
> Here it shows TY-143 starts at 1065RPM http://www.coolingtechnique.com/recensioni/air-cooling/dissipatori/1321-recensione-thermalright-silver-arrow-sb-e-extreme.html?start=4
> What should I use to get 600RPM ? What fan controller should I buy ? I currently use Scythe kaze q-12.


What Abula said.

Of course it's noisy when ran faster than 1300rpm.

You can't use both TY-143 and TY-147A on cooler at same time. The TY-143 is pushing so much air it is forcing the TY-147A to spin faster.

The testing you linked to used voltage control, not PWM. On PWM the TY-143 will idle down to 550-600rpm

The reason your TY-143 is not idling down is probably because you are using variable voltage control, not PWM control. You need PWM control to get it to idle down.

You are mistaken when you say TY-143 can't be used behind dust filter or radiators. Noise only increases dramatically if they are being used at high speed. Their ability to overcome resistance is more than enough to handle grill, filter and radiator all at the same time. Thermalbench tested them on radiator .. same as he does will all his fan testing .. so does ehume.

Here is PWM controlled rpm graphs of TY-147A, TY-143 and older TY-140/TY-147. If you want to idle even lower lower voltage from 12v to 9v or 7v with something like the Noctua LNA and ULNA inline adapters.


Thermalbench idled his TY-143 & TY-143 SQ to 575rpm. He did have TY-143 review, but removed it when he did TY-143 SQ because results were basically the same for both.
http://thermalbench.com/2016/08/19/thermalright-ty-143-sq-140-mm-fan/3/


----------



## ThomasD

As I've mentioned before, I'm a push-pull fanatic. In my experience using mismatched fans in that arrangement is a recipe for disappointment. You might still achieve effective cooling but it will almost certainly come at the cost of more noise, because they rarely match flow rates, which inevitably means greater turbulence.

And speaking of turbulence, when someone says a fans is more noisy next to a restriction (filter, rad, etc.) what that indicates to me is that that fan actually has enough SP/power to move air through the disturbance. As opposed to weaker fans that spin silently but move no air in the process.

Everything comes at a price.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

nevermind, read up more, found the answer in this thread


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> nevermind, read up more, found the answer in this thread


Le Grand Macho cool as well and is quieter.


----------



## westj

Hi guys! does this fit in a Thermaltake Spedo Advance Package?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *westj*
> 
> Hi guys! does this fit in a Thermaltake Spedo Advance Package?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Depends on what the case CPU clearance is.
TRUE Spirit 140 Power is 171mm tall.


----------



## AshBorer

Ive found that the anti vibration pads were useless, there is no audible vibrating sound in the first place, at least not that I can hear


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AshBorer*
> 
> Ive found that the anti vibration pads were useless, there is no audible vibrating sound in the first place, at least not that I can hear


Yeah, I haven't used them in years. TY-14x fans don't vibrate .. or at least not enough that I can feel/hear them.


----------



## AshBorer

I'm going to be delidding my 7700k in about a month, gonna report before and after numbers using this cooler


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AshBorer*
> 
> I'm going to be delidding my 7700k in about a month, gonna report before and after numbers using this cooler


Look forward to seeing the results.


----------



## AshBorer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Look forward to seeing the results.


I know you like to be as scientifically responsible as possible, so i tried my best. Unfortunately i cannot currently measure my ambient temps in our outside of my case. I would have to guess that they would be around 18C, its fairly cool in this room. I dont believe case temps would rise much over time (especially air entering the cooler) as i've got great airflow with plenty of intake and exhaust. With my prime 95 results, obviously the GPU was not being stressed at all, but with the BF1 results the GPU was always hovering between 65-68C. For my testing i set all my fans to max speed just so there is minimal variance. These include two TY-147As ( ~1300 rpm) mounted to the TS140P, and four Corsair HD140s (~1350 rpm) - three intakes and one exhaust. I left all case panels (front/side) and fan filters on for all tests. For reference here is my computer, though i already posted an image months ago, the only things that have changed is i got some black PSU cable extensions.

The results:





And then because my temps are so much lower, i was able to push a stable 5.0 GHz at 1.375V. Here are the prime 95 v27.9 results, same setup:



I am extremely happy with the performance of this cooler. Topping out at 78C on one of the most demanding stress tests while pushing 1.375V through this 7700k is very impressive.

edit: i just remembered that the aquaero 6 which i have sitting beside me has some temp probes, maybe once i get it set up i'll be able to measure ambient temps at multiple areas (exterior of case, and the temp of air actually entering the cooler)


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AshBorer*
> 
> I know you like to be as scientifically responsible as possible, so i tried my best. Unfortunately i cannot currently measure my ambient temps in our outside of my case. I would have to guess that they would be around 18C, its fairly cool in this room. I dont believe case temps would rise much over time (especially air entering the cooler) as i've got great airflow with plenty of intake and exhaust. With my prime 95 results, obviously the GPU was not being stressed at all, but with the BF1 results the GPU was always hovering between 65-68C. For my testing i set all my fans to max speed just so there is minimal variance. These include two TY-147As ( ~1300 rpm) mounted to the TS140P, and four Corsair HD140s (~1350 rpm) - three intakes and one exhaust. I left all case panels (front/side) and fan filters on for all tests. For reference here is my computer, though i already posted an image months ago, the only things that have changed is i got some black PSU cable extensions.
> 
> The results:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And then because my temps are so much lower, i was able to push a stable 5.0 GHz at 1.375V. Here are the prime 95 v27.9 results, same setup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am extremely happy with the performance of this cooler. Topping out at 78C on one of the most demanding stress tests while pushing 1.375V through this 7700k is very impressive.
> 
> edit: i just remembered that the aquaero 6 which i have sitting beside me has some temp probes, maybe once i get it set up i'll be able to measure ambient temps at multiple areas (exterior of case, and the temp of air actually entering the cooler)


Nice bit of work!








Always nice to see so much improvement when making changes like delidding and using better TIM. tThe 6c improvement with delid is within the norm, but the 7-9c improvement from Kryonaut to CLU is at least twice what it should be .. at least from my experience and what I've seen in TIM testing. This is why monitoring the air temo going into cooler is so important.







Still nice work!
Yeah, aquaero 6 temp probes can be used to monnitor airflow into case and into components. Too bad we don't have at least a room temp record at times you ran the above tests. Hopefully room was no more than 3c different between each of your tests.

Will be interesting to see what air temps are and what case fan speeds iare needed to supply cool air to components.


----------



## AshBorer

Delete


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AshBorer*
> 
> Delete


I saw your post.
You could use the 4th to monitor GPU intake air temp.
Only a few degrees warmer cooler intake after an hour of high load is good.


----------



## AlphaC

Ryzen 7 actually is better then for this cooler if that's the case. My R7 in AVX load was pulling 180W through and still only 70°C...

If a i7-7700k is hitting 78°C with a lower ambient it means it is definitely hampered by the delidding process and the smaller die as that should only use about 130W tops.\

Are you sure your GPU idle power isn't heating it up in Prime95?


----------



## AshBorer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> Ryzen 7 actually is better then for this cooler if that's the case. My R7 in AVX load was pulling 180W through and still only 70°C...
> 
> If a i7-7700k is hitting 78°C with a lower ambient it means it is definitely hampered by the delidding process and the smaller die as that should only use about 130W tops.\
> 
> Are you sure your GPU idle power isn't heating it up in Prime95?


I was looking at some power consumption results from online and AnandTech shows that their 7700k with a vcore of 1.375 (the same as mine) was using 164W. Mine is overclocked to 5000Mhz while theirs was only at 4800Mhz. Source.

No the GPU is not being used at all, in fact it even cooled a bit over the duration of the test going from 31C to 28C. Here is a quick graph.



When P95 really started kicking in after ~15min or so, the intake temps rose like half a degree but maintained that and didn't rise any longer. Honestly im pushing a lot of voltage through it, im quite happy with 78C max. I rarely surpass 70C in other programs and games.

Heres temps from the custom h264 stress test that the CPU threads on this site recommend:



Hovers around mid-high 60s

And heres a log of BF1:



Those two quick spikes to 70C occur briefly at the end of a match when i enter a loading screen. Otherwise i hover in the mid-low 60s. Air intake temps were 2C warmer than the usual due to heat from the GPU.

All of this is with 1.375v / 5000Mhz


----------



## AlphaC

I'm just going by what you posted


----------



## AshBorer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> I'm just going by what you posted


Lmao, ok you got me there. With it only pulling 130w there's no way any other cooler would improve the temps, this one is rated at like 360w. It's safe to say the bottleneck is still heat transfer from die to ihs as you guessed. It is a really small die which is probably one of the main reasons. I did drop 20C from delidding, which is a slightly above average drop with this chip, doubt there's much more I could do.


----------



## doyll

Would be interesting to know just how accurate CPUID CPU wattage numbers are.

@AshBorer, I think your temps are good. I used to play for weeks tweaking to gain a couple degrees, but it was not needed .. only me playing.


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Would be interesting to know just how accurate CPUID CPU wattage numbers are.
> 
> @AshBorer, I think your temps are good. I used to play for weeks tweaking to gain a couple degrees, but it was not needed .. only me playing.


Those are reported by the CPU performance counters (more info https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-performance-counter-monitor) and the difference reported in my 5820K (load-idle) pretty much matches the same delta that my UPS does.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloppy007*
> 
> Those are reported by the CPU performance counters (more info https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-performance-counter-monitor) and the difference reported in my 5820K (load-idle) pretty much matches the same delta that my UPS does.


Thanks, I've seen that before. Problem is we don't know how accurately they are applied by motherboard designers. Some have claimed 4-pin fan headers were "PWM headers" when they were in fact had no PWM signal on pin 4.


----------



## AlphaC

https://us.hardware.info/reviews/78...ested-test-results---cooling-atn30-and-40-dbn


----------



## doyll

The US Hardware Info shows TRUE Spirit 140 Power 2c warmer than best temps recorded .. and all their testing is on rather low wattage heat sources too. 

It would be interesting to see results if they had results in 200-300 watt heat range.


----------



## ciarlatano

AlphaC said:


> https://us.hardware.info/reviews/78...ested-test-results---cooling-atn30-and-40-dbn


Zero credibility to these tests in my eyes. I have tested a number of the coolers in these charts on multiple occasions. My results were consistent in my tests and do not correspond to what is being shown here at all. The Gelid Phantom and Mugen PCGH Editions with better results than a PH-TC14PE? Really? On Earth?????


----------



## doyll

ciarlatano said:


> Zero credibility to these tests in my eyes. I have tested a number of the coolers in these charts on multiple occasions. My results were consistent in my tests and do not correspond to what is being shown here at all. The Gelid Phantom and Mugen PCGH Editions with better results than a PH-TC14PE? Really? On Earth?????


Probably in some sort of brown hole conditions .. but even then their temperature readings are not representative of what I have found in my own testing either. Maybe partially due to their low TDP CPUs, but that still leaves a lot to the imagination.


----------



## AlphaC

Review variance I suppose since it is low TDP

This however might just be testing error , measurement accuracy, and non-linear temperature response of the CPU
Some coolers idle at lower RPM as well.
https://www.nikktech.com/main/artic...140-direct-cpu-cooler-review?showall=&start=5

Test CPU is i7-3930K , 
True Spirit 140 Direct = 61.1°C vs 36.8°C idle 
True Spirit 140 BW Rev A = 59.2°C vs 36.8°C idle 
True Spirit 140 Power = 63.8°C vs 37.5°C idle 

Macho Rev B = 56.6°C vs 34.9°C idle 
Macho zero = 57.3°C vs 36.6°C idle 
Archon IB-E = 59.4°C vs 35.9°C 
Archon SB-E x2 = 60.8°C vs 37.1°C 

Mugen 5 = 57.5°C vs 34.3°C idle
Fuma = 58.5°C vs 35.3°C idle 
NH-U14S = 57.9°C vs 34.7°C idle 
NH-D15S = 56.8°C vs 34.7°C idle
Dark Rock Pro 3 = 59.5°C vs 35.4°C idle 
Cryorig R1 Ultimate = 58.9°C vs 37.6°C idle


----------



## doyll

AlphaC said:


> Review variance I suppose since it is low TDP
> 
> This however might just be testing error , measurement accuracy, and non-linear temperature response of the CPU
> Some coolers idle at lower RPM as well.
> https://www.nikktech.com/main/artic...140-direct-cpu-cooler-review?showall=&start=5
> 
> Test CPU is i7-3930K ,
> True Spirit 140 Direct = 61.1°C vs 36.8°C idle so delta temp 24.3°C
> True Spirit 140 BW Rev A = 59.2°C vs 36.8°C idle so delta temp 22.4°C
> True Spirit 140 Power = 63.8°C vs 37.5°C idle so delta temp 26.3°C
> 
> Macho Rev B = 56.6°C vs 34.9°C idle so delta temp is 21.7°C
> Macho zero = 57.3°C vs 36.6°C idle so delta temp is 20.7°C
> Archon IB-E = 59.4°C vs 35.9°C so delta temp is 23.5°C
> Archon SB-E x2 = 60.8°C vs 37.1°C so delta temp is 23.7°C
> 
> Mugen 5 = 57.5°C vs 34.3°C idle so delta temp is 23.2°C
> Fuma = 58.5°C vs 35.3°C idle so delta temp is 23.2°C
> NH-U14S = 57.9°C vs 34.7°C idle so delta temp is 23.2°C
> NH-D15S = 56.8°C vs 34.7°C idle so delta temp is 22.1°C
> Dark Rock Pro 3 = 59.5°C vs 35.4°C idle so delta temp is 24.1°C
> Cryorig R1 Ultimate = 58.9°C vs 37.6°C


Three rather glaring problems here;
1/ Nikkteck does not say what case the use, but they do say room is air conditioned with an AC on each side of room "Every single test takes place in a temperature controlled room of 23 degrees Celsius Ambient Temp with the help of two AC units placed diagonally inside the room" ... big deal

2/ They say "Single (120/140mm) watercooling solutions are tested with the radiator mounted at the rear of our test rig while dual/triple/quad (240/260/280/360/420/480/560mm) solutions with the radiator mounted at the top." .. leads me to believe they are testing cooler in a case while monitoring room air temp. :thumbsdow

3/ Subracting idle temp for load temp does not give use a delta temp. :thumbsdow
It only idle does not make any kind of a delta. All it give is the difference between idle and load temps. 

Delta temp is cooler intake air temp subtracted from load temp.​


----------



## AlphaC

Idle is typically within a few degrees unless all C states are off.

A temperature delta is a difference between two temperatures.

_edited above post, the point was at that sort of heat load the difference is minimal between good coolers

I didn't write delta to ambient, but that's besides the point of the above post._


----------



## doyll

AlphaC said:


> Idle is typically within a few degrees unless all C states are off.
> 
> A temperature delta is a difference between two temperatures.


No! 
The CPU delta temp is normally the difference between CPU temp and air temperature into cooler or at least air temperature in room. It is not the difference between CPU idle and load temps! 

All you are doing here by using it as difference between CPU idle temp and CPU load temp is confusing the traditional use of CPU delta temperature as difference between air temperature (hopefully going into cooler and the CPU temperature .. not the difference between CPU idle temp and CPU load temp.

In other words when someone says they have a CPU delta temperature of 50c the CPU's actual temp is 50c plus room or cooler intake air temp of 22-30c, not the CPU's idle temp.


----------



## Abula

I think the review is not that bad, the only thing i dont like is the Spirit Power dont appear on the 40db charts, maybe out of not able to reach that high of noise? idk, but seems a little off seeing U14S being set as Spirit power winning on most of the 30dbs, i can understand the twin tower coolers like the noctua nh-d15 and the thermaltake being in that award but not the u14s if the true spirit isnt, very similar cooler imho. they should have brought TY143 to push the noise =P

To me what that review leaves me is that Mugen 5 PCGH and Thermalright True Spirit Power are the best coolers around $50, and that the twin tower still have a small edge over single towers but with a big cost.


----------



## doyll

Abula said:


> I think the review is not that bad, the only thing i dont like is the Spirit Power dont appear on the 40db charts, maybe out of not able to reach that high of noise? idk, but seems a little off seeing U14S being set as Spirit power winning on most of the 30dbs, i can understand the twin tower coolers like the noctua nh-d15 and the thermaltake being in that award but not the u14s if the true spirit isnt, very similar cooler imho. they should have brought TY143 to push the noise =P
> 
> To me what that review leaves me is that Mugen 5 PCGH and Thermalright True Spirit Power are the best coolers around $50, and that the twin tower still have a small edge over single towers but with a big cost.


Indeed, TRUE Spirit 140 Power maximum sound level is only 38.5 dBat 10cm .. which is 18.5 dB at 1 meter .. well below their 40Db at 10 cm. 

NH-D15 is 48.6 dB at 10 cm which is 28.6 dB at 1 meter .. 10.1dB louder than TRUE Spirit 140 Power. 

To me US Hardware review is worse than worthless because it's inaccuracies give readers a very misrepresented idea of cooler performance .. all because testing is done inside of a case using room air temperature when testing in a case instead of temperature of air actually going into cooler. 

It's a big part of reason so many reviews show CLCs giving so much lower CPU temps.  

I've said it before and I'll say it again, any CPU cooler test that does not use the temperature of air going into cooler as baseline air temp is not going to give an accurate comparison of cooler to cooler performance. 

All US Hardware is doing is comparing how different coolers perform in their test systems .. which is usually very different than comparing actual cooler performances on their own merits.


----------



## airisom2

It might help to read Hardware Info's test setup:


> We have also rebuilt the test environment. The new test environment consists of an insulated box with a test chamber of 55 x 55 x 28 cm. On the front side we have three big slow fans which supply the air into the housing and on the back we have placed an outtake fan. In a folded air duct at the front of the cabinet, two heat elements are placed, each with a fan. At the entrance to the test chamber, a heat sensor is placed to measure the temperature of the air going into the test chamber. The system is set up as a closed loop with a self-learning PID controller which keeps the temperature consistent by controlling the heaters turning them up or down when needed.


Their testing methodology is sound, but they're not using processors to generate the load. Anandtech does something similar, but these types of "synthetic" heat load tests will only tell you how well the cooler performs on a heating element that's trying to simulate the heat output of a processor. You will have more variance but more correct results by using an actual processor to give real-world heat outputs. You might have the heating element the same dimensions as lga1151, 1150, and 2011, but the size of the silicon under the ihs is a fraction of the total size of the package. The heating element is capable of giving consistent heat outputs, and the heat it gives off is more uniform than that of a processor. The IHS on a processor is also convex in most cases, and because you have a sliver of silicon in the middle of the package, thermal performance near the edges of the processor will taper off when you consider both of these factors. This can lead to lower heatpipe efficiency in those areas. 

The only websites that I know of that gives good cooler reviews are Gamer's Nexus and thermalbench. However, GN usually focuses on asetek units, and TB has a really small air cooler database which consists of low end coolers. Most of the stuff TB reviews consists of watercooling components and fans. So, unless I take the other websites' word for it, there is pretty much no one who has both a sound testing methodology using real processors and has a good array of coolers. 

I've been thinking about picking up a good amount of coolers to compare them just for the knowledge. There's too much variance in these reviews I'm seeing for me to be satisfied with how accurately their results represent the cooler's performance on their tested processors. I'm interested in the R1, D15S, U14S, Le Grand Macho, TS140P, and GamerStorm Assassin II, all using bequiet silent wings 3 140mm fans or the EK Vardar F2 140s I have. Maybe a Cryorig A80 or similar to represent the asetek units as well, but I think my EK Predator 280 could fill in that position.


----------



## doyll

airisom2 said:


> It might help to read Hardware Info's test setup:
> Their testing methodology is sound, but they're not using processors to generate the load. Anandtech does something similar, but these types of "synthetic" heat load tests will only tell you how well the cooler performs on a heating element that's trying to simulate the heat output of a processor. You will have more variance but more correct results by using an actual processor to give real-world heat outputs. You might have the heating element the same dimensions as lga1151, 1150, and 2011, but the size of the silicon under the ihs is a fraction of the total size of the package. The heating element is capable of giving consistent heat outputs, and the heat it gives off is more uniform than that of a processor. The IHS on a processor is also convex in most cases, and because you have a sliver of silicon in the middle of the package, thermal performance near the edges of the processor will taper off when you consider both of these factors. This can lead to lower heatpipe efficiency in those areas.
> 
> The only websites that I know of that gives good cooler reviews are Gamer's Nexus and thermalbench. However, GN usually focuses on asetek units, and TB has a really small air cooler database which consists of low end coolers. Most of the stuff TB reviews consists of watercooling components and fans. So, unless I take the other websites' word for it, there is pretty much no one who has both a sound testing methodology using real processors and has a good array of coolers.
> 
> I've been thinking about picking up a good amount of coolers to compare them just for the knowledge. There's too much variance in these reviews I'm seeing for me to be satisfied with how accurately their results represent the cooler's performance on their tested processors. I'm interested in the R1, D15S, U14S, Le Grand Macho, TS140P, and GamerStorm Assassin II, all using bequiet silent wings 3 140mm fans or the EK Vardar F2 140s I have. Maybe a Cryorig A80 or similar to represent the asetek units as well, but I think my EK Predator 280 could fill in that position.


I have my doubts that US Hardware test methology is sound. They go into great detail about using air heating elements, inside, folded air duct, measuring air going into test chamber and maintaining a steady air temp at 35c, but nothing about air temp into cooler. We can assume it is 35c, but 35c into cooler is 8-10c hotter than my air temp into cooler. My room is 21-23c with air into cooler 1-4c above room depending on load. So best case scenario is their test system airflow is way hotter than most systems I build or help users setup their airflow in. 

The real proof that their test system is not accurate is that their results to not match results from tests that are being done on open bench and/or monitoring air temp into cooler and when a 5x 6mm heatpipe 158x125x45m NH-U12S shows up performing as well as 6x 8mm heatpipe 171.2x155x53.4mm TRUE Spirit 140 Power I have to wonder what is not accurate .. because the U12S is not near as good as TRUE Spirit 140 Power .. and that is just one example .. or as ciarlatano posted "Gelid Phantom and Mugen PCGH Editions with better results than a PH-TC14PE" is also not realistic. 

Simply put, US Hardware cooler test results do not conform to what has been proven time and again, so how can it be accurate? 

As for synthetic heat sources made to simulate difference CPUs, this have been being done for many years and proven to work well .. even though US Hardware's attempt is not. 


We are also talking about Nikktech testing, which says 


> We always take things quite seriously when it comes to work so just like with the previous LGA1366 database we will not be testing each CPU Cooler on its own and with different ambient temperature levels and thus we can actually have yet another valid CPU Cooler database. Testing a CPU Cooler automatically means that you need to know where it stands against the immediate competition and to accomplish that we have spent both money and time through the years, something that we plan to continue to do so in order to get the most accurate results for the end consumers who read these lines. Every CPU cooler in this database is tested with the bundled 140mm/120mm/92mm/80mm fans while working at both idle speed and 100% of their speeds for all the temperature tests. CPU Coolers that do not come bundled with a fan/s are measured using a Noctua fan (size dependent on the model) to test for the temperature tests but due to the lack of a stock fan dBA level tests are obviously skipped. Single (120/140mm) watercooling solutions are tested with the radiator mounted at the rear of our test rig while dual/triple/quad (240/260/280/360/420/480/560mm) solutions with the radiator mounted at the top. For the dBA tests every cooler in the database was measured both while on idle mode or with the fan controller in the minimum setting and while on extreme load or with the fan controller all the way to the highest possible setting (PWM fans do that on their own without our intervention). Every single test takes place in a temperature controlled room of 23 degrees Celsius Ambient Temp with the help of two AC units placed diagonally inside the room. The Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste is used with every CPU Cooler in our latest LGA2011 database (although initially this was not the plan we had to change things to get the most accurate results). Finally it's very important to point out that just because a CPU Cooler is better than another when tested with our test rig that does not necessarily mean that the same performance differences will apply 100% for other CPU models and in other situations (such as different ambient temps and system configurations).
> To successfully record the load temperatures we use the latest OCCT application for around 6-10 minutes to push the processor to its limits and after that is done and the temperatures are recorded we wait for about 10-20 minutes for the CPU to cool down and record the idle temperatures. This is done to allow time for the thermal conductive material to achieve the optimal performance level. Same procedure is then repeated with the Passmark BurnIn Test as a failsafe just in case the OCCT results are wrong. This procedure takes a lot more time than the usual peltier/thermometer tests but this way not only can we deliver real world results to our readers based on real CPUs but we can also triple check the results using a variety of programs. Last but not least the temperatures were recorded using both the latest versions of AIDA64 and RealTemp while the noise level tests are performed using a high precision ExTech HD600 Decibel Meter placed about 10-15cm above the CPU Cooler. Still although the same testing procedure applies to all units do take into consideration that unlike the official numbers which are measured in special noise isolated labs with just the fans here we also have both the rest of the cooler and the rest of the system (although all system fans are turned off when recording noise levels).


I underlined parts most relevant to airflow temps. Nothing is even mentioned about what case is used, but I'm assuming a case is used because they say small radiators are mounted on back while larger radiators are mounted on top. But nowhere do they say anything about actual air temp going into coolers / radiators or if air temp is monitored / recorded at same times CPU temps are.

Too bad you are not in UK. Then I could loan you some coolers to test. Although I like the idea of a standardized fan test on all coolers, it is often not practical. Too hard to use one fan / airflow source on coolers ranging from 92mm to 140mm (even a few 150mm) diameter fans. As good as Silent Wings 3 fans are, they do not give us the extreme performance of like TY-143 that will idle at 550rpm an go all the way up to 2500rpm / 130cfm .. which may be a better standardized fan for 120mm and 140mm coolers. Just a though.


----------



## airisom2

doyll said:


> I have my doubts that US Hardware test methology is sound. They go into great detail about using air heating elements, inside, folded air duct, measuring air going into test chamber and maintaining a steady air temp at 35c, but nothing about air temp into cooler. We can assume it is 35c, but 35c into cooler is 8-10c hotter than my air temp into cooler. My room is 21-23c with air into cooler 1-4c above room depending on load. So best case scenario is their test system airflow is way hotter than most systems I build or help users setup their airflow in.
> 
> The real proof that their test system is not accurate is that their results to not match results from tests that are being done on open bench and/or monitoring air temp into cooler and when a 5x 6mm heatpipe 158x125x45m NH-U12S shows up performing as well as 6x 8mm heatpipe 171.2x155x53.4mm TRUE Spirit 140 Power I have to wonder what is not accurate .. because the U12S is not near as good as TRUE Spirit 140 Power .. and that is just one example .. or as ciarlatano posted "Gelid Phantom and Mugen PCGH Editions with better results than a PH-TC14PE" is also not realistic.
> 
> Simply put, US Hardware cooler test results do not conform to what has been proven time and again, so how can it be accurate?
> 
> As for synthetic heat sources made to simulate difference CPUs, this have been being done for many years and proven to work well .. even though US Hardware's attempt is not.


I don't think it's _that _strange to see cooler anomalies like that. Hardware.info's testing setup is simulating processors that aren't overclocked. I have seen plenty of hiccups like that on stock cooler tests. I'm sure if they upped the wattage to something beyond 95w on 115x and 130w on 2011 that we would see results in line with what we're used to seeing. For one, I'm guilty of completely skipping the stock cooler tests and scrolling down to see how the coolers perform on overclocked processors. Or on anandtech's little cooler roundup they did a few years back, click on the 200-340W buttons. Those are the wattages we need to really saturate some of these coolers, and they just weren't done with hardware info's setup. We also know that Intel's chips pull way more than their rated TDP on AVX workloads as well.



> We are also talking about Nikktech testing, which says
> 
> I underlined parts most relevant to airflow temps. Nothing is even mentioned about what case is used, but I'm assuming a case is used because they say small radiators are mounted on back while larger radiators are mounted on top. But nowhere do they say anything about actual air temp going into coolers / radiators or if air temp is monitored / recorded at same times CPU temps are.


Yeah, nikktech's cooler reviews are garbage.



> Too bad you are not in UK. Then I could loan you some coolers to test. Although I like the idea of a standardized fan test on all coolers, it is often not practical. Too hard to use one fan / airflow source on coolers ranging from 92mm to 140mm (even a few 150mm) diameter fans. As good as Silent Wings 3 fans are, they do not give us the extreme performance of like TY-143 that will idle at 550rpm an go all the way up to 2500rpm / 130cfm .. which may be a better standardized fan for 120mm and 140mm coolers. Just a though.


Appreciate the gesture :thumb:

Well, I'm only interested in 140mm coolers (since they perform the best), so that will fix the fan standardization issue as I can just run the same 140mm fan on them all. 


While the TY-143 is a good fan, I think it's too much fan for most use cases because half of it's rpm capabilities will, realistically speaking, never be used. It gets pretty audible after 1200rpm or so. I also have a pair of Vardar F2-140 fans that could be used as well. If I do actually do this, I'll probably use those fans instead.


----------



## doyll

airisom2 said:


> I don't think it's _that _strange to see cooler anomalies like that. Hardware.info's testing setup is simulating processors that aren't overclocked. I have seen plenty of hiccups like that on stock cooler tests. I'm sure if they upped the wattage to something beyond 95w on 115x and 130w on 2011 that we would see results in line with what we're used to seeing. For one, I'm guilty of completely skipping the stock cooler tests and scrolling down to see how the coolers perform on overclocked processors. Or on anandtech's little cooler roundup they did a few years back, click on the 200-340W buttons. Those are the wattages we need to really saturate some of these coolers, and they just weren't done with hardware info's setup. We also know that Intel's chips pull way more than their rated TDP on AVX workloads as well.
> 
> Yeah, nikktech's cooler reviews are garbage.
> 
> 
> Appreciate the gesture :thumb:
> 
> Well, I'm only interested in 140mm coolers (since they perform the best), so that will fix the fan standardization issue as I can just run the same 140mm fan on them all.
> 
> 
> While the TY-143 is a good fan, I think it's too much fan for most use cases because half of it's rpm capabilities will, realistically speaking, never be used. It gets pretty audible after 1200rpm or so. I also have a pair of Vardar F2-140 fans that could be used as well. If I do actually do this, I'll probably use those fans instead.


You might be right. US Hardware load is very low. Like you said, lower than many CPUs use use even running stock 'turbo' setting. High performance / top-tier coolers are almost wasted on stock CPUs .. except for being quieter .. and even then many mid-level coolers like NH-U12S or TRUE Spirit 140 Direct are better matched.

I agree, Anandtech give us a much better overall picture of cooler performance. 

Yeah, TY-143 do have 1000rpm more than most will use, but they do give use extreme performance with many coolers. 8-10c better cooling on TRUE Spirit 140 Power for example. 

Only the Silent Wings 3 High Speed PWM are good because of their extreme PWM% to RPM jumps from about 950rpm @ 95% to 1600rpm @ 100% makes their 1000rpm to 1500rpm range almost worthless.
http://thermalbench.com/2016/10/31/be-quiet-silent-wings-3-140-mm-high-speed-fan/3/


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## airisom2

That could just be an issue with Aquaero fan controllers. I know on early aquaero 6 versions, the impedance of the resistors were too low which caused issues with corsair pwm signals, and we could be seeing a derivative of that with the SW3s. Regardless, the SW3s respond very well to voltage control, so even if pwm isn't working right, they can still scale to silent levels with voltage adjustment.


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## Brightmist

I get like 1100 RPM @ 62% using Speedfan on my BW3 high speeds, that info can be outdated or it might be that I'm not PWM'ing using a 4-pin header on my X370 Taichi(said header set to PWM in BIOS) in combination with SpeedFan for some reason. In any case, I can manage speed fine between 1000-1600 RPM on my high speed PWM BW3s.

I bought fans like a month ago, 2 of them came with Dark Base 700 and I purchased the other off Amazon.


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## doyll

airisom2 said:


> That could just be an issue with Aquaero fan controllers. I know on early aquaero 6 versions, the impedance of the resistors were too low which caused issues with corsair pwm signals, and we could be seeing a derivative of that with the SW3s. Regardless, the SW3s respond very well to voltage control, so even if pwm isn't working right, they can still scale to silent levels with voltage adjustment.


That may be, or maybe be quiet! has changed SW3 PWM circuitry so it's no longer a problem. SW3 HS PWM are definitely a extremely good fan. 



Brightmist said:


> I get like 1100 RPM @ 62% using Speedfan on my BW3 high speeds, that info can be outdated or it might be that I'm not PWM'ing using a 4-pin header on my X370 Taichi(said header set to PWM in BIOS) in combination with SpeedFan for some reason. In any case, I can manage speed fine between 1000-1600 RPM on my high speed PWM BW3s.
> 
> I bought fans like a month ago, 2 of them came with Dark Base 700 and I purchased the other off Amazon.


be quiet! rarely has any issues like this and are very good at resolving said issues, so it's logical the problem has been resolved. All my systems are using PH-F140SP, PH-F140MP, TY-140, TY-147A Sq or TY-143 Sq fans, so no reason to change to SW3, but if I needed new fans SW3 PMW H S would be my choice.


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## Genjin

Would the Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power be a good fit for a 8700k CPU on a Asus Rog Maximus Apex? The Case is to be a "Phanteks Enthoo Pro M Tempered Glass Special Edition" so should have good airflow to begin with. I'd use the CPU at most at 4.7 Ghz, no delidding. In the past this cooler seems to have been extremely competent for its size, and I'm wondering if that's still true now for a 8700k. Just trying to avoid AIO and I don't like the giant Air Coolers aesthetically, but I don't want too horrible temps either when it goes 4.7 Ghz.

Thanks


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## doyll

Genjin said:


> Would the Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power be a good fit for a 8700k CPU on a Asus Rog Maximus Apex? The Case is to be a "Phanteks Enthoo Pro M Tempered Glass Special Edition" so should have good airflow to begin with. I'd use the CPU at most at 4.7 Ghz, no delidding. In the past this cooler seems to have been extremely competent for its size, and I'm wondering if that's still true now for a 8700k. Just trying to avoid AIO and I don't like the giant Air Coolers aesthetically, but I don't want too horrible temps either when it goes 4.7 Ghz.
> 
> Thanks


Enthoo Pro M has plenty of CPU clearnace, but ...
Asus Rog Maximus Apex is about 71.6mm center CPU to near side of 1st x16 PCIe socket. 
TRUE Spirit 140 Power is 77.5mm from center of CPU, so 1st x16 PCIe socket will be covered. Quick look at Asus Rog Maximus Apex looks like all 3 x16 PCIe are the same so you could use one of the others for GPU. 

TRUE Spirit 140 Power performs well on 8700.


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## Genjin

Thank you for the warning about the PCIe, but looking at the Manual of the Apex (and also the labels on the board itself) it looks like the other PCIe is 8x/4x and not 16x. Do you think I could use a Riser for the graphics card there to keep using the covered slot? Nevermind, I'm stupid. This board has a switch that lets you define which is 16x, that's awesome!

Okay, I'll get this cooler. Thank you )


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## doyll

Genjin said:


> Thank you for the warning about the PCIe, but looking at the Manual of the Apex (and also the labels on the board itself) it looks like the other PCIe is 8x/4x and not 16x. Do you think I could use a Riser for the graphics card there to keep using the covered slot? Nevermind, I'm stupid. This board has a switch that lets you define which is 16x, that's awesome!
> 
> Okay, I'll get this cooler. Thank you )


 I can definitely understand the x8 vs x16 value. I've seen many x16 length PCIe that were only x8.  
TRUE Spirit 140 Power is an extremely good cooler at a very reasonable price. :thumb:


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## Abula

Hey doyll, i been wondering between the Archon IBE and True Spirit Power 140, they seems very similar, 6x8 vs 8x6 pipes, and the IBE has the none centered design, but performance wise is it similar between both (assuming same fans)


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## doyll

Abula said:


> Hey doyll, i been wondering between the Archon IBE and True Spirit Power 140, they seems very similar, 6x8 vs 8x6 pipes, and the IBE has the none centered design, but performance wise is it similar between both (assuming same fans)


Not much difference, but TRUE Spirit 140 Power is a little better and lower priced, but Archon IB-E X2 is shorter and offset for better PCIe clearance so it's swings and roundabouts. While the included TY-141 fan is to the same impeller as other TY-14x fans it performs the same. 

There used to be a TRUE Spirit 140 rev. A with 6x 6mm heatpipes and offset like Archon IB-E that was quite good and great clearance, but they discontinued it.


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## Owterspace

Just curious.. I have Le Grand Macho RT on my 3770k, but I was thinking about putting it on my X58 rig with an x5690 that clocks well. And to replace it I was thinking of True Spirit 140 Power. LGMRT is rated for 320w with fan, but TS140P is rated for 360w. I'm thinking that may be better suited to this cpu, and LGMRT on the Xeon. Do I have this backwards? I would like a new Thermalright cooler to put on my Xeon, my current one is only a couple of months old, so its new.. Should I grab a TS140P or another LGMRT?


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## JackCY

Depends what your case can fit, they are both very good. The difference between most of the big fin area coolers is heatpipes and fans, you will probably never even warm up the fins, it's all about getting the heat away, dissipation is not a big issue on large air coolers. A delid of Intel CPU with toothpaste will help you more than any large cooler differences. The wattage difference is most likely due to fan speeds.
LGMRT is large but 140P is tall.


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## Owterspace

I know, I should delid it.. Id probably be able to use the x50 multi if I did  I think I may add one to my basket tonight and proceed to checkout.


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## doyll

Owterspace said:


> Just curious.. I have Le Grand Macho RT on my 3770k, but I was thinking about putting it on my X58 rig with an x5690 that clocks well. And to replace it I was thinking of True Spirit 140 Power. LGMRT is rated for 320w with fan, but TS140P is rated for 360w. I'm thinking that may be better suited to this cpu, and LGMRT on the Xeon. Do I have this backwards? I would like a new Thermalright cooler to put on my Xeon, my current one is only a couple of months old, so its new.. Should I grab a TS140P or another LGMRT?


I don't think there is much difference in performance. The 8mm heatpipes can probably move a little more heat away from base, but only a little. While I have used TY-143 fans on TS140P, Silver Arrow SB-E and Silver Arrow IB-E with 8-9c lower temps on 920 @ 4.3GHz, (similar performance gains w/ NH-D14), I have not tried TY-143 on LGM RT . My guess is LGM RT will not respond as well with TY-143 fans as TS140P did. Down side is TY-143s' get very loud at higher rpm. 

Like JackCY said, check case and motherboard clearance. TRUE Spirit 140 Power is 171 tall and 77.5mm center cooler toward PCIe sockets, so plan accordingly. Maybe look at Archon IB-E X2 (comes w/ TY-141 fans) if TS140P won't fit .. or Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme (comes w/ TY-143 fans).


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## Owterspace

Thank you kindly. I haven't ordered yet, but if they are roughly the same performance wise, then I might as well get one of those rather than the LGMRT. Its a few bucks cheaper so win win all around


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## AshBorer

At what point will a dual tower cooler (or a huge single tower cooler like the Macho) begin to pull away from a single tower cooler like the TS140P? From my understanding the reason this can keep up with the big boys is because most reviewers/testers use processors that don't necessarily put out much heat relative to these coolers capabilities. The fins on this never come close to being heat saturated, so it can always keep up in tests. How much heat does it require to saturate a single tower of fins? Do you need something like an overclocked 12 core processor drawing 300W+?

I suppose number of heatpipes are also relevant to this question. A single tower with three heatpipes would be able to feed a lot less heat to the fins than one with six heatpipes. To the point where, assuming sufficient airflow, a single tower with less heatpipes may not even be capable of saturating the fins regardless of how much heat a processor is outputting....the thermal bottleneck would be the pipes.

Maybe this question is harder to answer than I originally thought haha.

Now I have led myself to another question relating to that second thought. How much importance is placed on optimizing the heatpipe-to-fin area ratio? If you have only 3 heatpipes but quite a big fin stack, you may never saturate the fins and the manufacturer would have essentially wasted money on the extra metal required for the useless fins. On the other hand, if you have 6 heatpipes but only a small fin area, the fins may get saturated really quickly and again the manufacturer will have wasted money on extra useless heatpipes. Are all coolers generally optimized in regards to this stuff? 

But then again isn't there also merits to having an "unoptimized" ratio depending on the use case for the cooler? Like having excessive fins would be good for a more passive cooling approach. Having excessive heatpipes may mean you can keep a low power CPU extremely cool, as long as you don't approach the threshold of saturating the relatively small amount of fin area.

Ok I'm going to go to bed. Not sure why I'm so curious about this stuff haha, my mind tends to wander late at night I guess.


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## doyll

AshBorer said:


> At what point will a dual tower cooler (or a huge single tower cooler like the Macho) begin to pull away from a single tower cooler like the TS140P? From my understanding the reason this can keep up with the big boys is because most reviewers/testers use processors that don't necessarily put out much heat relative to these coolers capabilities. The fins on this never come close to being heat saturated, so it can always keep up in tests. How much heat does it require to saturate a single tower of fins? Do you need something like an overclocked 12 core processor drawing 300W+?
> 
> I suppose number of heatpipes are also relevant to this question. A single tower with three heatpipes would be able to feed a lot less heat to the fins than one with six heatpipes. To the point where, assuming sufficient airflow, a single tower with less heatpipes may not even be capable of saturating the fins regardless of how much heat a processor is outputting....the thermal bottleneck would be the pipes.
> 
> Maybe this question is harder to answer than I originally thought haha.
> 
> Now I have led myself to another question relating to that second thought. How much importance is placed on optimizing the heatpipe-to-fin area ratio? If you have only 3 heatpipes but quite a big fin stack, you may never saturate the fins and the manufacturer would have essentially wasted money on the extra metal required for the useless fins. On the other hand, if you have 6 heatpipes but only a small fin area, the fins may get saturated really quickly and again the manufacturer will have wasted money on extra useless heatpipes. Are all coolers generally optimized in regards to this stuff?
> 
> But then again isn't there also merits to having an "unoptimized" ratio depending on the use case for the cooler? Like having excessive fins would be good for a more passive cooling approach. Having excessive heatpipes may mean you can keep a low power CPU extremely cool, as long as you don't approach the threshold of saturating the relatively small amount of fin area.
> 
> Ok I'm going to go to bed. Not sure why I'm so curious about this stuff haha, my mind tends to wander late at night I guess.


Twin tower cooling ability does not 'pull away' from single towers. The big single tower coolers are equally as good as twin tower coolers. What makes the difference is heatpipes, base, fins, and how heatpipes are attached to base and fins. Most of the fin area does very little or nothing at all because most of the heat radiated into fins from heatpipes is dissipated into airflow in first 2-3cm radius of fin area from heatpipe. Basic proof of this is the heatpipe spacing in fin packs.  

A few of the top single tower coolers I can think of are Thermalright Archon IB-E, TRUE Spirit 140 Power, Noctua NH-U14S, Reeven Ouranos (RC-1401, ID-Cooling Hunter VC-3D w/ vapor chamber base (was Fi Reex), then we get into the bigger area singles like Le Grand Macho, Macho |HR-02, Mugen, Dark Rock 3, Lucifer, 

Yes, number and size of heatpipe is relevant. Also type of heatpipe and coolant being used. There are 3 popular kinds; Cu powder sintering, groove and composite wick (groove + powder) used in coolers. As far as I know water is the coolant used in all CPU cooler heatpipes. 

Most coolers have have fin area to heatpipe optimization, but fins are not very expensive, so some coolers have bigger fin area than needed. Air flow speed is critical too. Bigger fin area helps lower the airflow speed needed. 

Yes, bigger fin area with lower speed airflow will give similar cooling as less fin area and higher speed airflow. The Thermalright Macho and Le Grand Macho coolers have more fin area and use lower speed airflow. 

With everything interrelated and so many variables it's hard to give a best combination of heatpipe number, fin area, airflow speed, etc.


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## ciarlatano

On that note....in some cases the twin towers do gain a small advantage at very high fan speeds, simply due to less resistance than something like a Macho design. But....since most users prefer their coolers not to sound like vacuum cleaners or CLCs, the point is mostly moot in practice.


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## AshBorer

Thanks for the replies!


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## Brightmist

ciarlatano said:


> since most users prefer their coolers not to sound like vacuum cleaners or CLCs


----------



## plus

Has anyone got the 2700x with True Spirit 140 Power to tell us how much difference he saw versus the stock cooler wraith prism?
2700x is kinda hotty.I have average 45C on Idle with the wraith prism and i'm looking to buy an air cooler.I dont want to buy an AIO water cooler and i saw this thread and some other reviews and i'm reading only the best for the True Spirit 140 Power.
If anyone can help me,then please..
Thanks.


----------



## doyll

plus said:


> Has anyone got the 2700x with True Spirit 140 Power to tell us how much difference he saw versus the stock cooler wraith prism?
> 2700x is kinda hotty.I have average 45C on Idle with the wraith prism and i'm looking to buy an air cooler.I dont want to buy an AIO water cooler and i saw this thread and some other reviews and i'm reading only the best for the True Spirit 140 Power.
> If anyone can help me,then please..
> Thanks.


45c idle sounds quite warm. 
What temp is your room? 
What is air temp into your cooler? 
What is your system; case, case fan setup, RAM, GPU, etc.?


----------



## plus

I'm not sure what temp has my room,its warm but not to much i guess.My setup is.
Coolermaster Storm trooper
2x Corsair SP120 front for intake
2x Corsair SP120 top for exhaust
1x Corsair AF140 back for exhaust
GTX 670 Gigabyte windforce
Asus Crosshair VII
Corsair Vengeance RGB 3466Mhz 16GB (running at 3400,having some issues at 3466 for now) 
Seasonic prime 750

To tell you the truth i have ordered the True Spirit 140 Power today but i can cancel it.The big question is...Will i see better temps?
Thanks.


----------



## doyll

plus said:


> I'm not sure what temp has my room,its warm but not to much i guess.My setup is.
> Coolermaster Storm trooper
> 2x Corsair SP120 front for intake
> 2x Corsair SP120 top for exhaust
> 1x Corsair AF140 back for exhaust
> GTX 670 Gigabyte windforce
> Asus Crosshair VII
> Corsair Vengeance RGB 3466Mhz 16GB (running at 3400,having some issues at 3466 for now)
> Seasonic prime 750
> 
> To tell you the truth i have ordered the True Spirit 140 Power today but i can cancel it.The big question is...Will i see better temps?
> Thanks.


The way your case is setup you have more exhaust potential than intake. This causes air to leak into rather than be pushed out of other vents or holes in case.
I would move the 2x top exhaust fans to bottom intakes and remove all PCIe back slot covers to give more exhaust vent area around GPU for better front to back airflow. 

I suggest doing a practice cooler install before doing it with a rice grain size dob of TIM in center of CPU. Install fan clips into cooler before installing cooler and practice mounting the fan a couple times so you know how to do it before mounting cooler. This way easier to do on open bench without TIM so TIM print doesn't get damaged trying to get cooler mounted. Only takes a few minutes and can save lot of frustration and cursing.  

I use kitchen paper towel cut into 2" squares and isopropyl alcohol to clean CPU and cooler base. I have my waste basket close by with plastic bag liner and wipe what comes off in one wipe then put it in the waste basket. Once I've wiped all I can off I dampen a clean wipe with alcohol and wipe again. Don't worry about throwing away too many of the 2" squares, one big towel piece makes lots of them. But if not careful it's very easy to get TIM on other things. I swear it can jump 16-24 inches. It's like Gremlins and water .. can end up places we are sure it can't. 

Any other questions or problems let us know.


----------



## plus

I will consider to add more intake air from bottom (i'll try it) but it dont like the idea because i'm sure i will have much more dust in my case even if it has dust filters.I dont have space to place the case somewhere high so i have it on the ground and it will suck all the dust from the ground.
The question i need an answer is that do you believe i will see better temps with the True Spirit 140 Power vs the wraith prism with the same setup?
Thanks.


----------



## doyll

plus said:


> I will consider to add more intake air from bottom (i'll try it) but it dont like the idea because i'm sure i will have much more dust in my case even if it has dust filters.I dont have space to place the case somewhere high so i have it on the ground and it will suck all the dust from the ground.
> The question i need an answer is that do you believe i will see better temps with the True Spirit 140 Power vs the wraith prism with the same setup?
> Thanks.


Yes, I think the TRUE Spirit 140 Power will give you lower temps, but only if the air it is getting is at or near room temp. You might find this link of interest. It is about case airflow and how to optimize it.
http://www.overclock.net/forum/22319249-post5.html


----------



## ciarlatano

plus said:


> I will consider to add more intake air from bottom (i'll try it) but it dont like the idea because i'm sure i will have much more dust in my case even if it has dust filters.I dont have space to place the case somewhere high so i have it on the ground and it will suck all the dust from the ground.
> The question i need an answer is that do you believe i will see better temps with the True Spirit 140 Power vs the wraith prism with the same setup?
> Thanks.


Without setting your case up for proper airflow, improvements will not be at their full potential.


----------



## plus

Thanks for your answers.I will return when i get the True Spirit to let you know if and what differences i have in temps.
One last question.Any other single fan cooler with Ram clearance i should have checked before i buy the Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power or i'm good with this decision?
Thanks.


----------



## doyll

plus said:


> Thanks for your answers.I will return when i get the True Spirit to let you know if and what differences i have in temps.
> One last question.Any other single fan cooler with Ram clearance i should have checked before i buy the Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power or i'm good with this decision?
> Thanks.


You said you have your case on the ground. could you set it on a piece of plywood or carpet with the case feet setting on some spacer blocks? That would give it more airflow area to bottom so slower moving air and less dust problem. All my cases are on open center castor bases for two reasons; 35mm more vertical space gives bottom intakes more than double the stock airflow area to them, and it's much easier to move case with castors if/when I need to.


----------



## plus

doyll said:


> You said you have your case on the ground. could you set it on a piece of plywood or carpet with the case feet setting on some spacer blocks? That would give it more airflow area to bottom so slower moving air and less dust problem. All my cases are on open center castor bases for two reasons; 35mm more vertical space gives bottom intakes more than double the stock airflow area to them, and it's much easier to move case with castors if/when I need to.


Unfortunately i have very limited space to place my pc case and i cant do much about it.I dont have free space up because of the desk and right/left because of my bed and where i'm sitting.I only have carpet below the case but thats it.It can breath fresh air its not closed or something but yes..i cant change it's position.

One more question.I read from someone who left a negative to the True Spirit because as he says he couldn't install it on an Asus board because Asus has fixed backplate back of the cpu.
There is a case to be true;I can see the backplate but i'm not sure if it's fixed or not.
Thanks.


----------



## doyll

plus said:


> Unfortunately i have very limited space to place my pc case and i cant do much about it.I dont have free space up because of the desk and right/left because of my bed and where i'm sitting.I only have carpet below the case but thats it.It can breath fresh air its not closed or something but yes..i cant change it's position.
> 
> One more question.I read from someone who left a negative to the True Spirit because as he says he couldn't install it on an Asus board because Asus has fixed backplate back of the cpu.
> There is a case to be true;I can see the backplate but i'm not sure if it's fixed or not.
> Thanks.


Thanks for explaining it. 

As for the Asus board backplate issue I can't say without knowing all the details. Some mountings use motherboard backplates.


----------



## Volkswagen

@ doyll - will this HSF Fit the Asus - ROG Strix Z370-I Gaming Mini ITX Motherboard?
If not whats another good air cooler that will fit- cooling an I7 8700K (delided) in a Fractal Design Nano S case.
Many thanks in advance.


----------



## doyll

Volkswagen said:


> @ doyll - will this HSF Fit the Asus - ROG Strix Z370-I Gaming Mini ITX Motherboard?
> If not whats another good air cooler that will fit- cooling an I7 8700K (delided) in a Fractal Design Nano S case.
> Many thanks in advance.


While ROG Strix Z370-I Gaming has enough clearance with about 86mm center CPU to near side of PCIe socket and about 49mm to near side of RAM socket, the Nano S case only has 160mm CPU clearance. There are not many top tier coolers that are 160mm or less tall. Can you get a different case with more CPU clearance? Manufacturers almost always list CPU clearance in case specifications.

RAM height might be a problem with only 49mm center CPU to near side of RAM socket because TRUE Spirit 140 Power is 26.5mm center CPU to front of cooler and fan is another 26mm. This is a problem with many high performance coolers.

Le Grand Macho RT will fit in case clearing clear RAM and PCIe sockets, but you need 98mm center CPU to back of case for cooler to fit. Center CPU to back of motherboard is 95mm but I don't know if how much the back of motherboard is set into case. While I can guess cooler will fit it would be better if you measured center of CPU to back of case. If you have more than 98mm center CPU to back of case the LGM RT will fit. 

Basically it's go with a little bigger case with more CPU clearance or reconsider your cooling needs. Do you really need this kind of maximum cooling ability? Because if you don't, there are coolers that are only 3-5c warmer that will fit.


----------



## Volkswagen

doyll said:


> While ROG Strix Z370-I Gaming has enough clearance with about 86mm center CPU to near side of PCIe socket and about 49mm to near side of RAM socket, the Nano S case only has 160mm CPU clearance. There are not many top tier coolers that are 160mm or less tall. Can you get a different case with more CPU clearance? Manufacturers almost always list CPU clearance in case specifications.
> 
> RAM height might be a problem with only 49mm center CPU to near side of RAM socket because TRUE Spirit 140 Power is 26.5mm center CPU to front of cooler and fan is another 26mm. This is a problem with many high performance coolers.
> 
> Le Grand Macho RT will fit in case clearing clear RAM and PCIe sockets, but you need 98mm center CPU to back of case for cooler to fit. Center CPU to back of motherboard is 95mm but I don't know if how much the back of motherboard is set into case. While I can guess cooler will fit it would be better if you measured center of CPU to back of case. If you have more than 98mm center CPU to back of case the LGM RT will fit.
> 
> Basically it's go with a little bigger case with more CPU clearance or reconsider your cooling needs. Do you really need this kind of maximum cooling ability? Because if you don't, there are coolers that are only 3-5c warmer that will fit.


Thank you for the detailed reply. I picked up the case for $25 locally just to change things up from my current case which is a Silverstone SG13B.
Mainly wanted to improve my motherboard temps which are high in the SG13B with an 8700K even at stock speeds...
Let me know what some other decent coolers are for an 8700K that will fit and work with the Nano S case.


----------



## doyll

Volkswagen said:


> Thank you for the detailed reply. I picked up the case for $25 locally just to change things up from my current case which is a Silverstone SG13B.
> Mainly wanted to improve my motherboard temps which are high in the SG13B with an 8700K even at stock speeds...
> Let me know what some other decent coolers are for an 8700K that will fit and work with the Nano S case.


That's a great price for a nice little case. 

So you have motherboard and 8700K CPU. What RAM do you have? Considering SG13B only has 61mm CPU clearance you couldn't have a very good cooler in it  so almost any tower cooler will be a big improvement. Where on Earth are you, or better yet what online stores do you buy from?


----------



## Volkswagen

doyll said:


> That's a great price for a nice little case.
> 
> So you have motherboard and 8700K CPU. What RAM do you have? Considering SG13B only has 61mm CPU clearance you couldn't have a very good cooler in it  so almost any tower cooler will be a big improvement. Where on Earth are you, or better yet what online stores do you buy from?


I have 2 sticks of Corsair Vengance LPX DDR4 low profile.
Currently am using an Corsair H75 with two GT 2150 RPM PWM Fans in push and pull (exhausting the hot air out of the case). Temps are very acceptable (delid helps alot).
I am in the US - so newegg amazon etc


----------



## Volkswagen

Scythe FUMA Rev. B CPU Cooler (SCFM-1100) seems like a good choice that will fit and should offer decent performance for $47


----------



## doyll

Volkswagen said:


> I have 2 sticks of Corsair Vengance LPX DDR4 low profile.
> Currently am using an Corsair H75 with two GT 2150 RPM PWM Fans in push and pull (exhausting the hot air out of the case). Temps are very acceptable (delid helps alot).
> I am in the US - so newegg amazon etc





Volkswagen said:


> Scythe FUMA Rev. B CPU Cooler (SCFM-1100) seems like a good choice that will fit and should offer decent performance for $47


What Volkswagen said. :thumb:

Fuma has very good performance. Probably the best it's size group and only a couple degrees warmer than the very best bigger coolers.


----------



## speedhunter

Hi doyll.

Base on the height, I think this will fit my case, meshify c. However, I've seen little to no video review on this cooler. Currently looking for a single tower, good-looking black-white theme, for my 8700k moderate oc when needed. Is this cooler still relevant? it is an old cooler and CPU air coolers are very rare these days.


----------



## doyll

speedhunter said:


> Hi doyll.
> 
> Base on the height, I think this will fit my case, meshify c. However, I've seen little to no video review on this cooler. Currently looking for a single tower, good-looking black-white theme, for my 8700k moderate oc when needed. Is this cooler still relevant? it is an old cooler and CPU air coolers are very rare these days.


It's a good cooler. Meshify C has 172mm CPU clearance so there is no problem with taller coolers. What motherboard do you have? I ask because not only is TRUE Spirit 140 Power 171.2mm tall, it is 155mm wide with centered base so 77.5mm center CPU toward PCIe sockets .. and many motherboards do not have enough space between 16x PCIe and CPU resulting in cooler blocking it so it can't be used for GPU.


----------



## speedhunter

I'm using Asus ROG STRIX Z370-F GAMING, 1 PCIe slot is 1x. How is this cooler compared with Cryorig R1 and Noctua NH D15? I've also have been recommended Scyth Mugen rev B, yet to find the review though.


----------



## doyll

speedhunter said:


> I'm using Asus ROG STRIX Z370-F GAMING, 1 PCIe slot is 1x. How is this cooler compared with Cryorig R1 and Noctua NH D15? I've also have been recommended Scyth Mugen rev B, yet to find the review though.


ASus Rog Strix X370-F Gaming nearest PCIe is 1x 59mm center CPU to near side of PCIe socket, but nearest 16x is 79mm center CPU to near side of PCIe socket. I'll assume you are not going to be using the 1x PCIe so no cooler side clearance problems.

TRUE Spirit 140 Power cools basically the same as D15 and R1. All are withing a few degrees of each other. 

Mugen 5 Rev.B are good coolers, but can't cool as many watts of heat as the above. They are smaller with 6x 6mm heatpipes and less fin surface area .. but just adding heatpipes and fins doesn't mean more cooling ability. How well built they are is also critical, but if all have same build quality a few more heatpipes / bigger diameter heatpipes with more fin area usually means a little more cooling ability. That said, Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT cools better than HR-22 did .. both are same basic cooler with LGM RT having one less heatpipe and different base.


----------



## AlphaC

Been testing the NH-U14S w/NF-A15 PWM (Chromax) fan on Ryzen 1st gen 3.9GHz @ 1.35V with 3466C14 very low latency memory timings on open air (~30°C ~85°F ambient , so basically at the limits of reasonable)... I didn't touch the fan profile so it's been running 1350RPM or so. Had to pay for AM4 bracket since I obtained the heatsink cheap secondhand without a fan.



The same chip with TS140Power ran a few degrees cooler in Prime95 but that was on a different board with a bit more V_Droop (typically at 1.33V or so) and 3200MHz CL16 RAM. The wattage is similar per hwinfo64 though (~180W - 190W peak VCORE + SOC) so I'm not too concerned with that part.


In short I believe the TS140Power remains the best single tower cooler _for Ryzen_ on the market provided you can fit it in your case , even if the AM4 backplate isn't used.


I'd be interested in testing the Thermalright ARO-M14G / Scythe Mugen 5 Rev B with NF-A12x25 but I don't know what I'll do with the NH-U14S, shelve it?


----------



## doyll

AlphaC said:


> Been testing the NH-U14S w/NF-A15 PWM (Chromax) fan on Ryzen 1st gen 3.9GHz @ 1.35V with 3466C14 very low latency memory timings on open air (~30°C ~85°F ambient , so basically at the limits of reasonable)... I didn't touch the fan profile so it's been running 1350RPM or so. Had to pay for AM4 bracket since I obtained the heatsink cheap secondhand without a fan.
> 
> 
> 
> The same chip with TS140Power ran a few degrees cooler in Prime95 but that was on a different board with a bit more V_Droop (typically at 1.33V or so) and 3200MHz CL16 RAM. The wattage is similar per hwinfo64 though (~180W - 190W peak VCORE + SOC) so I'm not too concerned with that part.
> 
> 
> In short I believe the TS140Power remains the best single tower cooler _for Ryzen_ on the market provided you can fit it in your case , even if the AM4 backplate isn't used.
> 
> 
> I'd be interested in testing the Thermalright ARO-M14G / Scythe Mugen 5 Rev B with NF-A12x25 but I don't know what I'll do with the NH-U14S, shelve it?


Good bit if info! :thumb:

I suspected TRUE Spirit 140 Power was easily as good if not better than NH-U14S, and your testing verifies that. I suspect Le Grand |Macho RT would also do very well on Ryzen, and it's as good as TS140P if not a little better, but rated 40w lower TDP. Not sure how well ARO-M14 will perform against above .. and it's only rated 240w TDP (same as other HR-02/Macho 140 coolers), but we know TDP ratings don't mean alot.


----------



## Owterspace

Its a really tough call on LGMRT and TS140P. I thought LGMRT would be better, especially with a TY143. But right now, I am running at 1.35v for 4700, and TS140P seems to be doing a little better. Maybe when the temperatures outside cool off a bit, I will do a side by side comparo with a little more detailed testing other than IBT..They are both pretty good, you wouldn't be disappointed with either of them, provided you have room. Even on my x5690 they are both pretty close.. Even tho they differ in price by 30 bux or so. I just looked at amazon and LGMRT is 175 u.s. lol. I guess its out of stock at Nan's.


----------



## JackCY

The problem with TS140P is height. Where as HR-02 and it's descendants (many) fits into almost anything. TS140P does well because of heatpipes and enough area, it's really more about heatpipes for modern processors especially low core count ones that don't dump 200W anyway.


----------



## Owterspace

I have LGMRT in a CM 690II Advanced lol.. The TS140P fits too, but their may be some slight rubbing on the tip of a pipe, a single one in my case. Also, that case is garbage, but it matches my tv stand and it was free.


----------



## Alias

Owterspace said:


> Its a really tough call on LGMRT and TS140P. I thought LGMRT would be better, especially with a TY143. But right now, I am running at 1.35v for 4700, and TS140P seems to be doing a little better. Maybe when the temperatures outside cool off a bit, I will do a side by side comparo with a little more detailed testing other than IBT..


Is that with the stock fan on the TS140P? Or with dual fans?

I had locked to buy LGMRT but see it out of stock on Amazon for its regular price and hence was considering the TS140P.


----------



## doyll

TRUE Spirit 140 Power stock fan and Le Grand Macho RT stock fan are basically the same fan. 
TS140P comes with TY-147A and LGMRT comes with TY-147B
The only difference is A has solid side while B has slots in sides.

Thermalright in their quest for excellence came up with the TY-147B after years of research started way back with TY-140 which is same fan as TY-147 except in different colors. TY-147A has a different PWM% to rpm curve and idles at 300rpm while older TY-140 & TY-147 idled at about 500-550rpm (specs said 700rpm). TY-147B is same motor, same impeller and same housing with slots added which did lower free airflow noise from 21dB(A) to 20dB(A). But human ear need 3dB(A) difference for us to be able to say one is louder than another. As is if we have 2 fans running at 3 feet distance with fan A to our left making 21dB(A) and fan B to our right makeing 20dB(A) we won't be able to tell the difference. Actually we wouldn't be able to even hear either fan because their 21dB(A) and 20dB(A) is 10dB(A) quieter than background noise is in a very quiet room miles for anywhere which is about 30dB(A). 

I've played around using TY-143 fans on several different coolers as well as FHP141 fans .. and if ran at full speed they lower CPU temps by 7-10c depending on cooler when CPU is making lots of watts heat (approx. 250 watts) with extreme overclock fans at 2500rpm @ 76c, but the noise is 45-50dB(A) .. and don't forget if we use high performance cooler fans we also need high performance case fans to supply the higher airflow cooler is using. If we don't the cooler has to re-use it's heated air to make up the difference, and every degree warmer the air into cooler is translated into basically the same 1c hotter CPU is. With CPU at 3.8GHz (approx 180 watts) the fans were at 1200rpm @ 72c. 

I'm back to running systems with fans only reaching 1100-1200rpm because the couple minutes added time it takes to do a couple hours of rendering isn't worth the added noise. I would much rather to be just barely able to hear computer working at extreme than need to wear ear protection in that room. .. But high-performance fans were fun for 'shock and awe' when people would wonder if system was running when I was rendering something for them and I would tell them it was at full load and listen closely to heat it, then slow fans to idle to show how quiet it was at idle, all while system was at full load and heating up for about 8-10 minutes to 78-80c, then click on pre-set fan temp to rpm curve and watch their eyes bug out as fans went from normal silent 500rpm up to 2500rpm jet engine level for about a minute before they start slowing down back to normal 1100rpm at full load over next 4-5 minutes and almost inaudible again.


----------



## Owterspace

Alias said:


> Is that with the stock fan on the TS140P? Or with dual fans?
> 
> I had locked to buy LGMRT but see it out of stock on Amazon for its regular price and hence was considering the TS140P.


That is with a TY143 up front, and the TY147 in the back. It came with 2 pairs of clips so I made use of them


----------



## doyll

Owterspace said:


> That is with a TY143 up front, and the TY147 in the back. It came with 2 pairs of clips so I made use of them


Sorry, but trying to use 1300rpm TY-147 in push/pull with 2500rpm TY-143 is an effort in futility. Kinda like teaming up a mouse and a Clydesdale on a wagon load of beer and having the Clydesdale trot along .. the mouse flying along in it's harness because poor thing can't even run as fast as horse is trotting let alon pull any of the load. 

And if you use TY-143 on cooler you need similar intake volume which mean turning your case into something sounding like a square jet engine. 

This is you setting behind your computer .. or with computer behind your chair.


----------



## Owterspace

doyll said:


> Sorry, but trying to use 1300rpm TY-147 in push/pull with 2500rpm TY-143 is an effort in futility. Kinda like teaming up a mouse and a Clydesdale on a wagon load of beer and having the Clydesdale trot along .. the mouse flying along in it's harness because poor thing can't even run as fast as horse is trotting let alon pull any of the load.
> 
> And if you use TY-143 on cooler you need similar intake volume which mean turning your case into something sounding like a square jet engine.
> 
> This is you setting behind your computer .. or with computer behind your chair.



The fans dont run at full speed all the time though.. at low speeds you still get the benefit of push/pull from 500-1500rpm or so. It is fairly quiet, I have it set to spool up at 60c. The 143 tops out at 2500rpm because its pushing the 147 to 1500 rpm, so an extra 200rpm heheh. When the 143 is at full gallop, its not the quietest, but its not the loudest I've had. For the most part, my system isnt silent, but in my living room, its fine. Only when the system is loaded fairly hard does it start to get a bit distracting.. I have 4x 120x38, 2x 140x25, and a 120x25 in my system, as well as the ty143/47 on the cooler. It works well!


----------



## doyll

Owterspace said:


> The fans dont run at full speed all the time though.. at low speeds you still get the benefit of push/pull from 500-1500rpm or so. It is fairly quiet, I have it set to spool up at 60c. The 143 tops out at 2500rpm because its pushing the 147 to 1500 rpm, so an extra 200rpm heheh. When the 143 is at full gallop, its not the quietest, but its not the loudest I've had. For the most part, my system isnt silent, but in my living room, its fine. Only when the system is loaded fairly hard does it start to get a bit distracting.. I have 4x 120x38, 2x 140x25, and a 120x25 in my system, as well as the ty143/47 on the cooler. It works well!


Of course they are not at full speed all the time. But running the TY-143 at higher speeds than TY-147 is handicapping TY-143 performance potential. You will get better performance with it solo. 

This is nothing but simple physics, not rocket science.

If you really believe they are performing better as a pair, I have a beautiful sea side cottage in Arizona I'll sell you at below market value. 

I agree, TY-143 at full speed is quieter than many at similar speeds, but it is still quite loud. You must have a very loud living room if you are running fans above about 1100rpm. 

But you are going to have to some very fancy foot shuffling before I'm even going to listen to any of this 'pushing a 1300rpm fan to 1500rpm with an identical impeller designed 2500rpm fan giving you better performance than the 2500rpm fan by itself.


----------



## Owterspace

Ok, I will run just the ty143 alone, since I haven’t actually done that yet. I am not at home right now and service is spotty out here in the sticks. I think you were misinterpreting what I was saying. At low speeds the two work well together. The 143 doesn’t automatically jump from 1200 to 2500, it’s progressive. I’m sorry my post rubbed you the wrong way, I was merely saying my setup works well for me. But I will take the 147 off and run the 143 alone and see what happens. I will be sure to report my findings.


----------



## doyll

Owterspace said:


> Ok, I will run just the ty143 alone, since I haven’t actually done that yet. I am not at home right now and service is spotty out here in the sticks. I think you were misinterpreting what I was saying. At low speeds the two work well together. The 143 doesn’t automatically jump from 1200 to 2500, it’s progressive. I’m sorry my post rubbed you the wrong way, I was merely saying my setup works well for me. But I will take the 147 off and run the 143 alone and see what happens. I will be sure to report my findings.


Didn't rub me wrong, just isn't logical. I'm assuming you have both on same PWM control, so TY-143 is constantly running faster than Ty-147 because at minimum PWM TY-147 is 300rpm and TY-143 is 500-550rpm. Like I said, it's like mouse and Clydesdale on beer wagon trying to set TY-147 to work equally with TY-143. Unless both are running at same speed / load as other you are gaining nothing using both .. and even if both were tuned perfectly they would only gain a little better airflow at speed below about 800rpm where an extra 30-50rpm on single fan (difference increasing the lower the rpm is) would give same temp. Setting them up to same temp-to-rpm curve would be almost impossible to do because each would have to be done without the other one running .. or maybe with an extremely accurate amp load meter on each to equalize out balanced amp load .. which would have to be done individually to determine what the amp load is at each rpm because TY-147 is lower load than TY-143. So a total nightmare to get them so both is working and moving same airflow as other in series. 

Obviously you can do it. But I'm going to be extremely surprised if you find just running TY-143 gives you higher temps at same rpm ..


----------



## skedda

I am looking for a new air cooler, I am tired off using a custom loop especially since I am travelling again. I need an air cooler that can cool a 7980xe. It's down to the True Spirit 140, the Grand Macho RT or the Alpenfoehn Olymp. Could someone help me decide? I don't like any Noctua products by the way. I also do not care about the fans that come with coolers, I can swap them out. Just need the best performing heatsink. Thank you.


----------



## Dogzilla07

skedda said:


> I am looking for a new air cooler, I am tired off using a custom loop especially since I am travelling again. I need an air cooler that can cool a 7980xe. It's down to the True Spirit 140, the Grand Macho RT or the Alpenfoehn Olymp. Could someone help me decide? I don't like any Noctua products by the way. I also do not care about the fans that come with coolers, I can swap them out. Just need the best performing heatsink. Thank you.


They're all good options, you do need low profile ram though, and will probably need to move the fans on the Olymp up, so that adds to the height of the cooler (it might be possible to move first cooler enough upwards so that even non low-profile ram could fit, but i'm not 100% sure and you'd need lots of case clearance 175mm-195mm).

As for the True Spirit 140, you need to check that it won't interfere with the first PCI-E slot, or if you have room to move your GPU to a x16 slot further away, or don't mind using a x8 slot, then that shouldn't be a problem.

The back of the Grand Macho RT might interfere with ram that's not low profile as well.

Also what motherboard do you use ?, some motherboards have unusually tall VRM cooling heatsinks opposite the PCI-E slots ?


----------



## skedda

Dogzilla07 said:


> They're all good options, you do need low profile ram though, and will probably need to move the fans on the Olymp up, so that adds to the height of the cooler (it might be possible to move first cooler enough upwards so that even non low-profile ram could fit, but i'm not 100% sure and you'd need lots of case clearance 175mm-195mm).
> 
> As for the True Spirit 140, you need to check that it won't interfere with the first PCI-E slot, or if you have room to move your GPU to a x16 slot further away, or don't mind using a x8 slot, that shouldn't be a problem.
> 
> Grand Macho RT back might interfere with ram that's not low profile as well.
> 
> Also what motherboard do you use ?, some motherboards have unusually high VRM cooling opposite the PCI-E slots ?


Thank you for the response. I appreciate you taking the time. I have the G.Skill Trident Zs, and I just ordered the Supermicro C9X299-PG300. Right now I still have the Asus Sage though, it has 7 PCI-e slots so it shouldn't be an issue if a cooler were to block the PCI-E slot. 
The case won't be an issue either, I am creating my own right now.


----------



## doyll

skedda said:


> I am looking for a new air cooler, I am tired off using a custom loop especially since I am travelling again. I need an air cooler that can cool a 7980xe. It's down to the True Spirit 140, the Grand Macho RT or the Alpenfoehn Olymp. Could someone help me decide? I don't like any Noctua products by the way. I also do not care about the fans that come with coolers, I can swap them out. Just need the best performing heatsink. Thank you.


First a few questions. How are you transporting your system when you are traveling? Reason I ask is to try and determine if these big air coolers and motherboard be safe from damage. 

As for changing fans, both Thermalright coolers come with very good fans.


----------



## skedda

doyll said:


> First a few questions. How are you transporting your system when you are traveling? Reason I ask is to try and determine if these big air coolers and motherboard be safe from damage.
> 
> As for changing fans, both Thermalright coolers come with very good fans.


Sure, no problem. I traveled with my custom loop a couple times by plane. The case was small enough to fit it in my carry on bag. The new case will be marginally bigger, depending on what cooler I end up using, so I will just put it in my carry on bag again. Do you think this will be a problem? When I travel by car I always put the case in a hard shell suit case. Great, I wasn't aware of that.


----------



## Dogzilla07

skedda said:


> Thank you for the response. I appreciate you taking the time. I have the G.Skill Trident Zs, and I just ordered the Supermicro C9X299-PG300. Right now I still have the Asus Sage though, it has 7 PCI-e slots so it shouldn't be an issue if a cooler were to block the PCI-E slot.
> The case won't be an issue either, I am creating my own right now.


Both motherboards enable you to use the 2nd PCI-E slot for the GPU, and the VRM heatsinks aren't too tall, so there shouldn't be any problem on that front.

The Alpenfoehn Olymp is definitely out of the question due to only 37mm of room for ram sticks, and yours are 44mm, I'm not sure about Le grand macho RT, someone who has exact measurements can help you, but i think True Spirit 140mm is the best choice out of those 3, it has 171mm height though. 

Scythe Mugen 5 might be a better option its 155mm tall, but it might also have clearance problem like the Macho with the ram slots at the back.

Oh and yeah all these big heatsinks can really dmg pc components in transit, Doyll can def help you figure out how risky it is using them.


----------



## doyll

skedda said:


> Sure, no problem. I traveled with my custom loop a couple times by plane. The case was small enough to fit it in my carry on bag. The new case will be marginally bigger, depending on what cooler I end up using, so I will just put it in my carry on bag again. Do you think this will be a problem? When I travel by car I always put the case in a hard shell suit case. Great, I wasn't aware of that.


The problem is all of the weight and size of coolers / waterblocks is being supported by the 50x50mm square top of CPU, so if system falls at an angle wo it lands on a corner on motherboard side of case the weight of cooler is being leveraged by mounting base so instead of just cooler weight the leverage increase the shock load of cooler onto base and sometimes this damages the CPU and/or CPU socket. Obviously the more times this shock happens the more likely there is for it to cause damage. 

This same kind of leverage / shock load applies to big graphics cards too. 

I would suggest using a cooler (and GPU) that are easy to remove and re-mount when you get to destination. 

TRUE Spirit 140 Power is easy to mount except for the small size of crossbar mounting screws 

Cryorig reviewed their new R5 cooler with a new quicker / easier mounting system at Computex last week. Might be worth looking at.


----------



## skedda

Dogzilla07 said:


> Both motherboards enable you to use the 2nd PCI-E slot for the GPU, and the VRM heatsinks aren't too tall, so there shouldn't be any problem on that front.
> 
> The Alpenfoehn Olymp is definitely out of the question due to only 37mm of room for ram sticks, and yours are 44mm, I'm not sure about Le grand macho RT, someone who has exact measurements can help you, but i think True Spirit 140mm is the best choice out of those 3, it has 171mm height though.
> 
> Scythe Mugen 5 might be a better option its 155mm tall, but it might also have clearance problem like the Macho with the ram slots at the back.
> 
> Oh and yeah all these big heatsinks can really dmg pc components in transit, Doyll can def help you figure out how risky it is using them.


Thank you for the insight, I wasn't aware that the ram clearance was so low. Very odd. As far as I looked online, the Grand Macho RT should cause me no problems regarding the RAM but I will double check it again. 

The height is no big deal, I will just design my case to be a bit wider.

I am not opposed to Scythe, I really like their fans. I am just not sure if their CPU coolers are better than the ones I listed?
Oh okay, it's been a while since I've had a big heatsink so I appreciate your advice.


----------



## skedda

doyll said:


> The problem is all of the weight and size of coolers / waterblocks is being supported by the 50x50mm square top of CPU, so if system falls at an angle wo it lands on a corner on motherboard side of case the weight of cooler is being leveraged by mounting base so instead of just cooler weight the leverage increase the shock load of cooler onto base and sometimes this damages the CPU and/or CPU socket. Obviously the more times this shock happens the more likely there is for it to cause damage.
> 
> This same kind of leverage / shock load applies to big graphics cards too.
> 
> I would suggest using a cooler (and GPU) that are easy to remove and re-mount when you get to destination.
> 
> TRUE Spirit 140 Power is easy to mount except for the small size of crossbar mounting screws
> 
> Cryorig reviewed their new R5 cooler with a new quicker / easier mounting system at Computex last week. Might be worth looking at.


I didn't even think of possible damages while traveling with that big heatsink. Fantastic, I gladly appreciate your advice. The True Spirit Power looks very nice, I also saw that the maximum TDP is 360 watts. Is this accurate? That's more than any other air cooler I have come across. 
I haven't been using too much Cryorig at all but I can definitely check them out. I just need something within the next week.


----------



## doyll

skedda said:


> I didn't even think of possible damages while traveling with that big heatsink. Fantastic, I gladly appreciate your advice. The True Spirit Power looks very nice, I also saw that the maximum TDP is 360 watts. Is this accurate? That's more than any other air cooler I have come across.
> I haven't been using too much Cryorig at all but I can definitely check them out. I just need something within the next week.


TRUE Spirit 140 Power will fit your new Supermicro C9X299-PG300 motherboard with no problems. All you will need to remove/mount cooler is a good magnetic tip screwdriver, some 4cm square pieces of kitchen paper towel,a small bottle of alcohol,maybe some sandwich bags to put the paper towel square into as you wipe off TIM, and some TIM. I like the small square because they are a wipe once and put in trash (Sandwich bag) so no TIM gets on anything else. I use about a grain of rice amount of TIM. I would probably wrap the cooler in some bubble wrap and if enough room in computer case it can be packed in there. Same with video card. Use as much bubble wrap as it takes for everything to fit snugly so it can't move around while in transit.

Edit: How accurate the 360 watt is I don't know. I can say it cools abut 7-9c better than D14 or D15 will with same fan/s. We cooler i7 920 @ 4.2GHz to 54.2c delta at 1200rpm (stock fan) with no problems. 
http://www.overclock.net/forum/22111036-post22.html


----------



## skedda

doyll said:


> TRUE Spirit 140 Power will fit your new Supermicro C9X299-PG300 motherboard with no problems. All you will need to remove/mount cooler is a good magnetic tip screwdriver, some 4cm square pieces of kitchen paper towel,a small bottle of alcohol,maybe some sandwich bags to put the paper towel square into as you wipe off TIM, and some TIM. I like the small square because they are a wipe once and put in trash (Sandwich bag) so no TIM gets on anything else. I use about a grain of rice amount of TIM. I would probably wrap the cooler in some bubble wrap and if enough room in computer case it can be packed in there. Same with video card. Use as much bubble wrap as it takes for everything to fit snugly so it can't move around while in transit.
> 
> Edit: How accurate the 360 watt is I don't know. I can say it cools abut 7-9c better than D14 or D15 will with same fan/s. We cooler i7 920 @ 4.2GHz to 54.2c delta at 1200rpm (stock fan) with no problems.
> http://www.overclock.net/forum/22111036-post22.html


Done! Just ordered the True Spirit Power 140. Pleasantly surprised about the price. I like to use a small amount of thermal paste as well, pea sized for me  Thanks, I will definitely pack the heavy stuff in bubble wrap. That's amazing, I think I made the right choice. Thank you again for your time. You were very helpful.


----------



## doyll

skedda said:


> Done! Just ordered the True Spirit Power 140. Pleasantly surprised about the price. I like to use a small amount of thermal paste as well, pea sized for me  Thanks, I will definitely pack the heavy stuff in bubble wrap. That's amazing, I think I made the right choice. Thank you again for your time. You were very helpful.


The surface area of CPU IHS is to spread out the load of cooler out near the edges of CPU PCB. The size of PCB is determined by number of pin connections there are between CPU and motherboard. The over 1000 connections do take up a little space.  The CPU chip is small spot in middle of IHS, and the IHS is so thin it doesn't spread heat more than a few mm at most. Link below is to TIM application and CPU IHS vs CPU die.
http://www.overclock.net/forum/22335323-post10.html

Please post up and let us know how it all works out. Your experiences help me know what to suggest to someone else on down the line.


----------



## Dogzilla07

You won't regret the purchase, True Spirit 140 Power is amazing


----------



## Owterspace

Its better than my old H100 for sure.


----------



## doyll

But H100 isn't as good as many top tier cooler. I know, many reviews show H100 being better than top air coolers, but they do now test them to equal standards;

Many have H100 radiator as intake into same case they test air coolers, but anyone who has ever monitored case airflow temp into coolers knows case airflow is always a few degrees warmer and sometimes 8-10c warmer.
They also test both air and H100 with fans at full speed and H100 fans are 2500rpm / very loud while air cooler fans are 1300-1500rpm. Slow the H100 fans to same speed / same noise level as air cooler fans and air coolers easily cool better.
PC-Cooling video review of H100, Silver Arrow SB-E and Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme clearly show how Silver Arrow SB-E is easily as good ass H100 even with 1000rpm and 1300rpm fans .. and 7c better with fans making similar amount of noise. Keep in mind if you run high performance fans on air cooler you need to increase case airflow to match cooler will be forced to re-used it's own heated exhaust air to make up the difference .. and ever degree warmer the air into cooler translates into about the same degree hotter CPU is.


Silver Arrow SB-E, Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme vs H100
I7 [email protected] Temperature in Delta
Cooler . . . . . . . . . Delta . RPM . RPM . dB(A) . Fans
H100. . . . . . . . . . 41c . . 2500. . . . . . . 55 . . . . 2x
SA SB-E. . . . . . . . 42c . . 1000 & 1300. 38 . . . . TY-150 & TY-141
SA SB-E Extreme . 34c . . 2500 . . . . . . 56 . . . . 2x TY-143​
H100 is 1c cooler than Silver Arrow SB-e but makes more than 3 times the noise doing it
Siver Arrow SB-E Extreme is 7c cooler with fans making similar amount of noise as H100 does.

PC-Cooling video review above data came from:


----------



## skedda

I just received the TSP 140 today. However, there is one thing that bugs me. There is a little gap between the mounting plate and the anchoring mount. I could try to screw it down some more but I am afraid of the heavy pressure it's putting on the CPU, especially since it's already fully tightened. The manual doesn't mention anything about it. There are spacers included but they are for different sockets. 
I borrowed myself a 7820x while I am getting my 7980xe delidded and I don't know if the temperatures are good right now. Ambient temps average around 33-35 degrees. I know that my 7980xe w/ custom loop had ambient temperatures under 30 degrees. Could I see an improvement in temps if I screw the mounting plate even tighter?


----------



## Owterspace

Its not working well for you because, if what I am reading is correct, you didn't install it properly. Use the Intel washers, screw everything down until it doesn't turn anymore, do what the instructions tell you to do. 1366 is the same as 2011, use the washers.. that's why you have a gap.


----------



## Abula

Hey doyll, you think the TSP140 (with two TY147B) can handle a delided i9 7940X @ 4.3ghz (just with multi core enhancement)?


----------



## doyll

skedda said:


> I just received the TSP 140 today. However, there is one thing that bugs me. There is a little gap between the mounting plate and the anchoring mount. I could try to screw it down some more but I am afraid of the heavy pressure it's putting on the CPU, especially since it's already fully tightened. The manual doesn't mention anything about it. There are spacers included but they are for different sockets.
> I borrowed myself a 7820x while I am getting my 7980xe delidded and I don't know if the temperatures are good right now. Ambient temps average around 33-35 degrees. I know that my 7980xe w/ custom loop had ambient temperatures under 30 degrees. Could I see an improvement in temps if I screw the mounting plate even tighter?


Try taking cooler and mount off, re-read instructions and re-install. 

While 1366 and 2011 have same 80mm mounting hole spacing, 1366 motherboards do not have backing plate and 2011 motherboards have built in backing plate and us different mounting studs. So while similar are not the same.



Abula said:


> Hey doyll, you think the TSP140 (with two TY147B) can handle a delided i9 7940X @ 4.3ghz (just with multi core enhancement)?


If any cooler can the TRUE Spirit 140 Power can. I would not waste money on 2nd fan. Even o i7 920 @ 4.2GHz was a big 1.65c warmer at 1200rpm with 1 vs 2 fans. I would use part of cost of 2nd fan to buy a low cost indoor/outdoor wired digital thermometer and build something out of it similar to this









https://www.overclock.net/forum/22319249-post5.html

to monitor airflow into CPU & GPU coolers. Then setup case fans to cycle with components fans supplying air to them within 3-4c through entire load / fan curve range. 

If you do need more cooling I would change fan to TY-143 and get a 2nd for intake supplying air to cooler. Using just 1 high performance fan on cooler usually ends up with case fans not being able to supply the as much cool air as TY-143 moves thus causing TY-143 to use heated air to make up the difference .. and every degree warmer the air into cooler is translates into almost exactly a degree hotter component will be.


----------



## Abula

doyll said:


> If any cooler can the TRUE Spirit 140 Power can. I would not waste money on 2nd fan. Even o i7 920 @ 4.2GHz was a big 1.65c warmer at 1200rpm with 1 vs 2 fans. I would use part of cost of 2nd fan to buy a low cost indoor/outdoor wired digital thermometer and build something out of it similar to this
> 
> If you do need more cooling I would change fan to TY-143 and get a 2nd for intake supplying air to cooler. Using just 1 high performance fan on cooler usually ends up with case fans not being able to supply the as much cool air as TY-143 moves thus causing TY-143 to use heated air to make up the difference .. and every degree warmer the air into cooler is translates into almost exactly a degree hotter component will be.


 Thanks doyll, i ordered TSP140 and a i9 7940X.

I was just browsing thermalright website, seems they are releasing a new Silver Arrow for Threadripper, Silver Arrow TR4, probably will be among the best air cooler for threadripper, specially with the 2950x coming next month, but reading the specs it says "Thermal design power: 320watt", while the TSP140 says "360 watt Thermal Design Power", so even with the bigger plate and more surface area of the twin tower, the TSP is more capable???


----------



## doyll

Abula said:


> Thanks doyll, i ordered TSP140 and a i9 7940X.
> 
> I was just browsing thermalright website, seems they are releasing a new Silver Arrow for Threadripper, Silver Arrow TR4, probably will be among the best air cooler for threadripper, specially with the 2950x coming next month, but reading the specs it says "Thermal design power: 320watt", while the TSP140 says "360 watt Thermal Design Power", so even with the bigger plate and more surface area of the twin tower, the TSP is more capable???


"Thermal Design Power" means the design is rated for a maximum of that figure. TRUE Spirit 140 Power has 6x 8mm heapipes while Silver Arrow TR4 (aka Silver Arrow IB-E with larger base) has 8x 6mm heatpipes. TS140P 6x 8mm heatpipes have a crossectional area of 301.44 sq mm/linear mm while SA TR4 has 226.08sq mm./linear mm .. so by design the 8x 6mm heatpipes have 75.36 sq mm/linear mm less volume/linear mm .. more linear volume means more heated vapor can move away from cooler base/heat source than a smaller heatpipe. Interior surface area of TS140P is same 150.72 sq mm/linear mm as SA IB-E .. so TS140P has more potential vapor movement with same wicking (which is not as critical as much greater volume the liquid becomes when it vaporizes) .. so more vapor movement area means more potential heat can be moved away from base while wicking area has a surplus to demands and does not need to be bigger. That is the key difference. The difference in fin area is not as critical because most of the heat is transferred from fin to air within 20mm of heatpipe.
Hope that's not too confusing.


----------



## lexlazootin

It sucks there isn't more info on this cooler 

'220watts' on my 4.9ghz 8700k (no avx offset) Prime95 Small FFT with AVX

https://i.imgur.com/0hhSzWC.png

it was only 10-15mins but It was bouncing up and down between 87-90 so i thought it was long enough.

https://i.imgur.com/eICbTrS.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/UwCczHo.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7Z1gPkt.jpg

LM it all up on all surfaces and used a Chroma NF-A15 on it, i also have a second one but i didn't install it. It would probably do a lot more wattage but i think it's limited in the 8700k die size because if you get 1.4~ you reach 240watts and the CPU hits 100~

I'm happy to test anything you guys want


----------



## megasthenes

I've got one on my GFs Xeon E5649 (OC @ 3.35GHz) and it's doing extraordinarily well. Needed something to replace the old Scythe Fuma that did interfere with the RAM sticks so much, that it wasn't possible to use the second fan which really hindered it's performance. While skeptical at first if it would fit the Mainboard (MSI X58 Pro-E, whose socket is placed fairly close to the top edge) and the case (Corsair 275R, which is only rated for 170mm coolers) it worked and does a great job. Just as quiet as my Noctua NH-D15SE AM4, and just as cool too. And a little more eyefriendly because of the lacking Gesichtswurstmomentum.


----------



## doyll

megasthenes said:


> I've got one on my GFs Xeon E5649 (OC @ 3.35GHz) and it's doing extraordinarily well. Needed something to replace the old Scythe Fuma that did interfere with the RAM sticks so much, that it wasn't possible to use the second fan which really hindered it's performance. While skeptical at first if it would fit the Mainboard (MSI X58 Pro-E, whose socket is placed fairly close to the top edge) and the case (Corsair 275R, which is only rated for 170mm coolers) it worked and does a great job. Just as quiet as my Noctua NH-D15SE AM4, and just as cool too. And a little more eyefriendly because of the lacking Gesichtswurstmomentum.


Nice looking build. :thumb:

Most reviews show NH-D15/ D14SE AM4 being better, but I agree TRUE Spirit 140 Power has near identical cooling and noise levels. Too bad they don't make an AM4 version .. although Thermalright just released Silver Arrow TR4 with 68x53mm base instead of 53x50mm normal size base.
http://thermalright.com/product/silver-arrow-tr4/

Edit: as @ megasthenes pointed out, TS140P includes AM4 mount. 
I'm hoping we will see a 68x53mm bigger on TS140P TR4 in the future to cover big surface area of AMD TR4 IHS.


----------



## megasthenes

Oh as for AM4, the current versions are fully compatible. I had that TS140 running on my Ryzen 5 1600 for a few days to test it and because I was waiting for my Noctua.


----------



## doyll

megasthenes said:


> Oh as for AM4, the current versions are fully compatible. I had that TS140 running on my Ryzen 5 1600 for a few days to test it and because I was waiting for my Noctua.


I should have made that clear.  TRUE Spirit 140 Power does indeed have AM4 mount. But it's 50x53 base does not cover TR4's approx 51x68mm IHS.

Here are measurements scaled from images of TR4 and Asetek pump/waterblock base with dies in black with Asetek overlay in green. Most air coolers have approx 50x53mm bases.


Edit: Sorry for image size. I copied the above from another OCN post but new system re-posted them bigger.  
Here is link to original post made before forum changes. 
https://www.overclock.net/forum/26332373-post728.html


----------



## AlphaC

doyll said:


> Nice looking build. :thumb:
> 
> Most reviews show NH-D15/ D14SE AM4 being better, but I agree TRUE Spirit 140 Power has near identical cooling and noise levels. Too bad they don't make an AM4 version .. although Thermalright just released Silver Arrow TR4 with 68x53mm base instead of 53x50mm normal size base.
> http://thermalright.com/product/silver-arrow-tr4/
> 
> Edit: as @ megasthenes pointed out, TS140P includes AM4 mount.
> I'm hoping we will see a 68x53mm bigger on TS140P TR4 in the future to cover big surface area of AMD TR4 IHS.



TS 140 Power works on AM4. Do you mean TR4 (for threadripper)?


----------



## Abula

doyll said:


> "Thermal Design Power" means the design is rated for a maximum of that figure. TRUE Spirit 140 Power has 6x 8mm heapipes while Silver Arrow TR4 (aka Silver Arrow IB-E with larger base) has 8x 6mm heatpipes. TS140P 6x 8mm heatpipes have a crossectional area of 301.44 sq mm/linear mm while SA TR4 has 226.08sq mm./linear mm .. so by design the 8x 6mm heatpipes have 75.36 sq mm/linear mm less volume/linear mm .. more linear volume means more heated vapor can move away from cooler base/heat source than a smaller heatpipe. Interior surface area of TS140P is same 150.72 sq mm/linear mm as SA IB-E .. so TS140P has more potential vapor movement with same wicking (which is not as critical as much greater volume the liquid becomes when it vaporizes) .. so more vapor movement area means more potential heat can be moved away from base while wicking area has a surplus to demands and does not need to be bigger. That is the key difference. The difference in fin area is not as critical because most of the heat is transferred from fin to air within 20mm of heatpipe.
> Hope that's not too confusing.


 Hey doyll and aplhac, you guys have any recommendation to stress test the i9 7940x with the TS140P? i really want to avoid using Prime95/Aida64 as they have not constant load, im looking more for something that will stress it but on constant load always, i read that blender has that but im just wondering what do you guys suggest?


----------



## lexlazootin

Abula said:


> i really want to avoid using Prime95/Aida64 as they have not constant load


If you test Prime95 with Small FFT it is a constant load, or if you test in place. Prime95 Small FFT is probably the hardest hitting test out there, i would love to see your power output in HWinfo and if the TS140P can handle it


----------



## Dogzilla07

Realbench is good test for regular usage


----------



## thigobr

I am assembling a mITX Ryzen PC and I want to use a TS140 but I am unsure if it will block the PCIE. Is someone running it on a mITX AM4 board?

Thanks!


----------



## deepor

What board do you want to use exactly? There's boards where the CPU socket and PCIe slot are closer together than normal, and then the cooler definitely won't work.


----------



## doyll

thigobr said:


> I am assembling a mITX Ryzen PC and I want to use a TS140 but I am unsure if it will block the PCIE. Is someone running it on a mITX AM4 board?
> 
> Thanks!


As deeper said, mITX have sockets closer together than larger boards so it's going to be a challenge finding one with 78mm minimum space center CPU to near side of PCIe socket. Look around at them and ask us what the spacing is on the one you find with most room between CPU and PCIe sockets.


----------



## Metalhead79

thigobr said:


> I am assembling a mITX Ryzen PC and I want to use a TS140 but I am unsure if it will block the PCIE. Is someone running it on a mITX AM4 board?
> 
> Thanks!



I have a Phanteks PH-TC14PE mounted on my ASRock AB350 Gaming ITX with no clearance issues to the GPU. 
I don't see why a TS140 wouldn't fit - at least on the motherboard. I think the AB450 Gaming ITX is the exact same aside from the different chipset.


----------



## doyll

Metalhead79 said:


> I have a Phanteks PH-TC14PE mounted on my ASRock AB350 Gaming ITX with no clearance issues to the GPU.
> I don't see why a TS140 wouldn't fit - at least on the motherboard. I think the AB450 Gaming ITX is the exact same aside from the different chipset.


If you have 8-10mm free space between the side of your TC14 the TS140 would fit. :thumb:
PH-TC14PE is 70mm center CPU to PCIe socket. TRUE Spirit 140 Power is 77.5mm. I haven't measured it, but it looks like there is plenty of room for TS140P toward PCie sockets but only about 47mm center CPU to near side or RAM socket .. TS140P with fan on front is about 53mm center CPU to front of fan. Fan could be mounted on back of cooler with no problems and no change in performance.


----------



## thigobr

I am between these two:
Asus X470 https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-X470-I-GAMING/
Asrock X470 https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty X470 Gaming-ITXac/index.asp

This Asrock has the same layout as the AB350 ITX.

Thanks guys!


----------



## doyll

thigobr said:


> I am between these two:
> Asus X470 https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-X470-I-GAMING/
> Asrock X470 https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty X470 Gaming-ITXac/index.asp
> 
> This Asrock has the same layout as the AB350 ITX.
> 
> Thanks guys!


While both look like they will accommodate TRUE Spirit 140 Power, I will do some checking and post up my findings tomorrow.


----------



## AshBorer

Ive had this cooler for about a year now, and I just wanted to stop by and reinforce how much I love it. My (delidded) 7700k is overclocked to 5Ghz @ 1.37V and it rarely reaches 60C when playing games. Usually hovers in the mid 50s, peaking in the mid 60s. I also absolutely love the way it looks. Those heatpipes are delicious. 10/10 would recommend - make sure it fits in your case though. It sounds kind of dumb, but this cooler my favorite component in my build haha.


----------



## doyll

AshBorer said:


> Ive had this cooler for about a year now, and I just wanted to stop by and reinforce how much I love it. My (delidded) 7700k is overclocked to 5Ghz @ 1.37V and it rarely reaches 60C when playing games. Usually hovers in the mid 50s, peaking in the mid 60s. I also absolutely love the way it looks. Those heatpipes are delicious. 10/10 would recommend - make sure it fits in your case though. It sounds kind of dumb, but this cooler my favorite component in my build haha.


Thank you so much for your follow-up after a year of use. That is a serious OC. 

I enlarged your pics and WOW!! :thumb:
That is one extremely clean build, and not just physically clean .. just an immaculate example of how a simple understated build with attention to detail can be an eye-popping jaw-dropping system. :thumb: It looks like the only added expenses are cable braiding and cable combs .. and maybe aquaero 6 LT but they are such a nice way to control fans and monitor things .. and I'm sure I'm missing a lot of other details. :thumb:


----------



## Owterspace

That's an impressive amount of bald eagles you have under that cooler. Gotta say I love mine too, although its been only eight or nine months for me lol.


----------



## thigobr

I asked few posts ago if the True Spirit Power would be compatible with AM4 mini-ITX boards. I just installed it on a Asus B450I AM4 board and regarding spacing between the heatsink and the PCIE slot everything is good: the PCIE slot is completely free with some space to spare.

The only problem I faced was with the memory slots and the FAN! The space is too tight to keep the FAN in a PUSH configuration blowing towards the back of the case (between the heatsink and memory slots). So I mounted the FAN in a PULL configuration between the heatsink and the case back FAN.

I will update with temp results using a Ryzen 1700 @4GHz/1.30V soon.


----------



## doyll

thigobr said:


> I asked few posts ago if the True Spirit Power would be compatible with AM4 mini-ITX boards. I just installed it on a Asus B450-I Gaming AM4 board and regarding spacing between the heatsink and the PCIE slot everything is good: the PCIE slot is completely free with some space to spare.
> 
> The only problem I faced was with the memory slots and the FAN! The space is too tight to keep the FAN in a PUSH configuration blowing towards the back of the case (between the heatsink and memory slots). So I mounted the FAN in a PULL configuration between the heatsink and the case back FAN.
> 
> I will update with temp results using a Ryzen 1700 @4GHz/1.30V soon.


Sorry I didn't get back to you with any info. I couldn't find what I was looking for. 
Thanks for giving your experience. Now we know it fits. :thumb:
Is your ITX motherboard the Asus STRIX B450-I Gaming? 
Cooler fan pull is fine. I've ran a few systems with TY-140 / TY-147A / TY-143 fans pull and push and didn't notice any difference in performance.


----------



## AshBorer

thigobr said:


> I asked few posts ago if the True Spirit Power would be compatible with AM4 mini-ITX boards. I just installed it on a Asus B450I AM4 board and regarding spacing between the heatsink and the PCIE slot everything is good: the PCIE slot is completely free with some space to spare.
> 
> The only problem I faced was with the memory slots and the FAN! The space is too tight to keep the FAN in a PUSH configuration blowing towards the back of the case (between the heatsink and memory slots). So I mounted the FAN in a PULL configuration between the heatsink and the case back FAN.
> 
> I will update with temp results using a Ryzen 1700 @4GHz/1.30V soon.


Pull should work just fine as doyll said. There are also slim fans that you can purchase, dunno if that would fit either. They do perform worse though.


----------



## thigobr

Don't worry doyll! Yes, good to know.

Asus STRIX B450-I Gaming is the board, yes. It uses the exact same layout as the STRIX X470-I Gaming so this cooler also fit there.

I am glad to know that pull won't have visible effects on the cooler performance! The fan almost fits but looking closely you can see that the memory module is a little bit (almost nothing) pressed. I will try to reseat the cooler and/or move the FAN a little bit... maybe it can make the FAN fit.

A slim FAN can be an option but as this Thermalright FAN is high quality it's better to keep it.


----------



## doyll

thigobr said:


> Don't worry doyll! Yes, good to know.
> 
> Asus STRIX B450-I Gaming is the board, yes. It uses the exact same layout as the STRIX X470-I Gaming so this cooler also fit there.
> 
> I am glad to know that pull won't have visible effects on the cooler performance! The fan almost fits but looking closely you can see that the memory module is a little bit (almost nothing) pressed. I will try to reseat the cooler and/or move the FAN a little bit... maybe it can make the FAN fit.
> 
> A slim FAN can be an option but as this Thermalright FAN is high quality it's better to keep it.


Slim fans are usually do not have as nice a sound profille, and TY-147A are not only quiet but if running so fast we hear them they are easy on the ears.


----------



## Hothicron

Anyone happen to know if have an older version of this from 2015, will it still work on 1151 sockets for Intel Gen 8 and 9's or do I need to buy an adapter from Thermalright for it work? It would be nice not having to buy a new HSF or God forbid, go AIO cooling....


----------



## doyll

Hothicron said:


> Anyone happen to know if have an older version of this from 2015, will it still work on 1151 sockets for Intel Gen 8 and 9's or do I need to buy an adapter from Thermalright for it work? It would be nice not having to buy a new HSF or God forbid, go AIO cooling....


My guess is it has LGA1150/1151/1155/1156/etc. mount spacing. First was in 2013 with LGA1150, so your cooler should have the 75x75mm hole spacing.

What do your instructions say? 

Can you measure the hole spacings of your mount? 

All LGA115x use 75x75mm square mounting hole spacing. All LGA20xx and LGA1136 use 80x80mm square mounting holes spacing. Older LGA775 uses 72x72mm hole spacing.


----------



## Hothicron

doyll said:


> My guess is it has LGA1150/1151/1155/1156/etc. mount spacing. First was in 2013 with LGA1150, so your cooler should have the 75x75mm hole spacing.
> 
> What do your instructions say?
> 
> Can you measure the hole spacings of your mount?
> 
> All LGA115x use 75x75mm square mounting hole spacing. All LGA20xx and LGA1136 use 80x80mm square mounting holes spacing. Older LGA775 uses 72x72mm hole spacing.





I don't have a new motherboard or anything yet so nothing to measure. My assumption since it just a "pin" layout adjustment that my 2015 model should work on 1151 socket vs 1150 that it has been on for almost 4 years.


Unless there is something better to buy that is NOT Noctua or Be Quiet because I hate the looks of those damn things. Or maybe its just time to finally go AIO....


----------



## deepor

@Hothicron:

I'm pretty sure you don't have to worry. Things should still fit. Intel seems to take care to keep the same distances for the mounting holes and they also make sure that the height of the top of the CPU and socket stays the same. They themselves want to be able to keep using the same coolers as for past CPUs.

The only thing to worry about is on the AMD side the AM4 socket that's used for Ryzen CPUs needs different holes in the mounting bracket.


----------



## doyll

Hothicron said:


> I don't have a new motherboard or anything yet so nothing to measure. My assumption since it just a "pin" layout adjustment that my 2015 model should work on 1151 socket vs 1150 that it has been on for almost 4 years.
> 
> 
> Unless there is something better to buy that is NOT Noctua or Be Quiet because I hate the looks of those damn things. Or maybe its just time to finally go AIO....


Like I said "My guess is it has LGA1150/1151/1155/1156/etc." To be clearer, LGA1150, LGA1151, LGA1155, LGA1156 all use the same 75x75mm mounting hole spacing. As you say, the difference is in pin layout, not in mounting hole spacing. :thumb:


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## Hothicron

Cool, I think it should work fine for a 9700k


----------



## Hothicron

I emailed Thermalright about this question and they it should but they wanted me to show them how I am doing it?!

Why the hell do I have to show a company it's own product? I wonder if its not English language based customer support because their reply was very.... Confusing. 



> _
> My main question, Will I safely be able to reuse my nearly 4 year old True Spirit 140 Power heatsink with the older mounting equipment that I bought in 2015? Or do I need to buy a newer version of it for it work properly on the newer 1151 sockets or Intel 8th and 9th generation CPU’s. If the mounting hardware has changed since I bought mine back in 2015, is it possible to order just the updated mounting hardware and not a whole new heatsink?_
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> TRUE Spirit 140 Power do support 1151 maybe you can show me how you install the mounting kit.
> 
> 
> Thank you for supporting us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sincerely
> 
> Varick
> 
> THERMALRIGHT Facebook
> www.facebook.com/ThermalrightOfficial


----------



## deepor

Perhaps they are thinking that you are currently trying to install it on your new board and you aren't managing to do it? That could be why they are asking for a photo about what you are doing.


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## doyll

What @deepor said.


----------



## Blizzgmx

I am late to the party here, but I own True spirit 140 power and it dominates 8700k at 4.7 ghz all day every day. It would be fine at 5 ghz but I would need to delid the chip in order to do that with any cooler. It will be fine with 9700k and most likely even 9900k at base clock for 9900k. I don't understand why anyone would spend all that money on noctua when thermalright power 140 is the diamond in your own backyard.


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## cyper.bg

Blizzgmx said:


> I am late to the party here, but I own True spirit 140 power and it dominates 8700k at 4.7 ghz all day every day. It would be fine at 5 ghz but I would need to delid the chip in order to do that with any cooler. It will be fine with 9700k and most likely even 9900k. I don't understand why anyone would spend all that money on noctua when thermalright power 140 is the diamond in your own backyard.


I am building a new rig soon with a 9900K (waiting for Mobo to arrive) and will use my Spirit. Will probably delid the CPU at which point will probably need better cooling.


----------



## Blizzgmx

cyper.bg said:


> I am building a new rig soon with a 9900K (waiting for Mobo to arrive) and will use my Spirit. Will probably delid the CPU at which point will probably need better cooling.


yeah I edited 9900k outside of base clocks might be too much horsepower but you never know until you try it. Let us know how it goes with the delid and the TSP140


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## doyll

Blizzgmx said:


> I am late to the party here, but I own True spirit 140 power and it dominates 8700k at 4.7 ghz all day every day. It would be fine at 5 ghz but I would need to delid the chip in order to do that with any cooler. It will be fine with 9700k and most likely even 9900k at base clock for 9900k. I don't understand why anyone would spend all that money on noctua when thermalright power 140 is the diamond in your own backyard.


TRUE Spirit 140 Power is an extremely good cooler .. one of the best coolers on the market and easily the best in it's price range.



cyper.bg said:


> I am building a new rig soon with a 9900K (waiting for Mobo to arrive) and will use my Spirit. Will probably delid the CPU at which point will probably need better cooling.


TRUE Spirit 140 has plenty of cooling ability for oveclocking 9900K, but you might want a hi-performance fan like TY-143 with TY-143 SQ case intake fan to supply it with cool air. In testing on [email protected] we got 8-9c lower temps at 2500rpm than at 1200rpm (stock TY-147A ). TY-143 is same housing and impeller as TY-147A but is 600-2500rpm instead of 300-1300rpm. But be warned, while it sounds identical to Ty-147A up to 1300rpm, at around 1700rpm it starts sound loud and only gets louder the faster it spins. Still, it's no louder than CLCs with TRUE Spirit 140 being 8-10c cooler. 

Thermalright has a few new coolers coming out soon. Looking forward to testing them.


----------



## Bruizer

*Can I be a part of the club?!*

Picked one of these up a few weeks ago for my new Ryzen 2700X. Love it! Just ordered a TY-143 for it to try and maximize it's potential. Didn't feel like going through the hassle of transferring my be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 from my secondary rig with my AMD 1100T (pain in the butt to install) or dropping another $70 plus again. I feel like this truly is a hidden gem.


----------



## doyll

Bruizer said:


> Picked one of these up a few weeks ago for my new Ryzen 2700X. Love it! Just ordered a TY-143 for it to try and maximize it's potential. Didn't feel like going through the hassle of transferring my be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 from my secondary rig with my AMD 1100T (pain in the butt to install) or dropping another $70 plus again. I feel like this truly is a hidden gem.


With TY-143 fan being able to move up to twice as much air as TY-147A you need a similar front intake to supply that much air. If case is not supplying TY-143 with at least as much cool air as it is using it has to get air from somewhere else and that means using already heated air coming off of TS140P and/or GPU .. and every degree warmer the air into cooler is translates into almost exactly the same number of degrees hotter the CPU is.  Easy way to tell is put have both CPU and GPU running stress load test and watch temps. If it take more than a couple minutes for both to reach peak temp and for temp graph to be flat case is not supply enough cool air to them. Below is graph of CPU load, CPU temp and fan speed. You can see how in 3 minutes both fan and temp jump from idling at 600rpm and 27-32c to 1274rpm then fan stays at 1274rpm and temp is 49-54c line until end of 100% load, when fan drops to back to 600rpm and temp comes down to idle at 27-32c.


----------



## Bruizer

doyll said:


> With TY-143 fan being able to move up to twice as much air as TY-147A you need a similar front intake to supply that much air. If case is not supplying TY-143 with at least as much cool air as it is using it has to get air from somewhere else and that means using already heated air coming off of TS140P and/or GPU .. and every degree warmer the air into cooler is translates into almost exactly the same number of degrees hotter the CPU is.  Easy way to tell is put have both CPU and GPU running stress load test and watch temps. If it take more than a couple minutes for both to reach peak temp and for temp graph to be flat case is not supply enough cool air to them. Below is graph of CPU load, CPU temp and fan speed. You can see how in 3 minutes both fan and temp jump from idling at 600rpm and 27-32c to 1274rpm then fan stays at 1274rpm and temp is 49-54c line until end of 100% load, when fan drops to back to 600rpm and temp comes down to idle at 27-32c.


Thank you for the informative reply! I currently have two Phantek 140mm fans as intake on the front of my Phantek Enthoo Pro M case (and one for exhaust). My little R9 Nano does get pretty warm (74-77 under load and around 88 on the VRMs). I'll do some testing after work one day this week!


----------



## doyll

Bruizer said:


> Thank you for the informative reply! I currently have two Phantek 140mm fans as intake on the front of my Phantek Enthoo Pro M case (and one for exhaust). My little R9 Nano does get pretty warm (74-77 under load and around 88 on the VRMs). I'll do some testing after work one day this week!


 Well the bad news is that TY-143 is rated 130cfm at full speed and your 2x front intake case fans are only rated about 82cfm each at full speed with no grill or filter, so you will be lucky if they can supply enough case airflow for just the TY-143 on TRUE Spirit 140 Power .. you need at least one more of them as intake. 

The good news is you can move your rear exhaust fan to the top as a 3rd intake near the front of case. Just don't forget to remove all PCIe back slot covers so there is more exhaust vent area in the back of case around GPU so GPU's heated air has somewhere to leave the case without it moving up into the cool air going to TRUE Spirit 140 Power.


----------



## Bruizer

doyll said:


> Well the bad news is that TY-143 is rated 130cfm at full speed and your 2x front intake case fans are only rated about 82cfm each at full speed with no grill or filter, so you will be lucky if they can supply enough case airflow for just the TY-143 on TRUE Spirit 140 Power .. you need at least one more of them as intake.
> 
> The good news is you can move your rear exhaust fan to the top as a 3rd intake near the front of case. Just don't forget to remove all PCIe back slot covers so there is more exhaust vent area in the back of case around GPU so GPU's heated air has somewhere to leave the case without it moving up into the cool air going to TRUE Spirit 140 Power.


Well, I did also purchase a spare Phantek fan I could put as intake at the top (bought 2, one extra for the front and then was going to use the second as a top rear exhaust but noticed my temps actually went up after initially installing it as top exhaust so removed it). I was planning on putting a DVD/CD/BD drive in my Enthoo Pro M. Do you think that would leave me enough room to move the fan far enough forward the heatsink?

EDIT: Also, I should note the 2 Phantek fans I bought are the Phanteks PH-F140SP_BK.


----------



## doyll

Bruizer said:


> Well, I did also purchase a spare Phantek fan I could put as intake at the top (bought 2, one extra for the front and then was going to use the second as a top rear exhaust but noticed my temps actually went up after initially installing it as top exhaust so removed it). I was planning on putting a DVD/CD/BD drive in my Enthoo Pro M. Do you think that would leave me enough room to move the fan far enough forward the heatsink?
> 
> EDIT: Also, I should note the 2 Phantek fans I bought are the Phanteks PH-F140SP_BK.


Like I said before, 
_"The good news is you can move your rear exhaust fan to the top as a 3rd intake near the front of case. Just don't forget to remove all PCIe back slot covers so there is more exhaust vent area in the back of case around GPU so GPU's heated air has somewhere to leave the case without it moving up into the cool air going to TRUE Spirit 140 Power."_​
They should be the same fan housing and motor as the PH-F140SP with a PH-F140MP impeller. They are rated about the same cfm free airflow but make more pressure through middle rpm range meaning they overcome the resistance created by filter and grill and flow more air than PH-F140SP do.


----------



## Blizzgmx

doyll said:


> TRUE Spirit 140 Power is an extremely good cooler .. one of the best coolers on the market and easily the best in it's price range.
> 
> 
> TRUE Spirit 140 has plenty of cooling ability for oveclocking 9900K, but you might want a hi-performance fan like TY-143 with TY-143 SQ case intake fan to supply it with cool air. In testing on [email protected] we got 8-9c lower temps at 2500rpm than at 1200rpm (stock TY-147A ). TY-143 is same housing and impeller as TY-147A but is 600-2500rpm instead of 300-1300rpm. But be warned, while it sounds identical to Ty-147A up to 1300rpm, at around 1700rpm it starts sound loud and only gets louder the faster it spins. Still, it's no louder than CLCs with TRUE Spirit 140 being 8-10c cooler.
> 
> Thermalright has a few new coolers coming out soon. Looking forward to testing them.


thank you for your invaluable feedback my friend. I actually bought this cooler after reading your glowing reviews of it. You are well respected in my circle. I look forward to reading more of your posts.


----------



## doyll

Blizzgmx said:


> thank you for your invaluable feedback my friend. I actually bought this cooler after reading your glowing reviews of it. You are well respected in my circle. I look forward to reading more of your posts.


Thanks.  I just like sharing with others.


----------



## Abula

doyll said:


> Thermalright has a few new coolers coming out soon. Looking forward to testing them.


 Any info or rumors? i would like to see whats coming, you certainly got me interested. Hope they are not only TR4 versions of whats available.


----------



## Fullereneshift

Abula said:


> Any info or rumors? i would like to see whats coming, you certainly got me interested. Hope they are not only TR4 versions of whats available.


 They're available on Tmall/Taobao already if you can navigate there.


I have trouble getting links that work, but these are what I saw listed:

Le Grand Macho Rev. B
Macho Rev. C
HR22 PLUS
Silver Arrow T6/T8
Silver Arrow 130
AXP-100 65mm
TA-120/140




Thermalright.de has already put up pages for a few of these on their website.


----------



## Abula

@Fullereneshift thanks for the info, ill try the sites and links =)


----------



## Fullereneshift

Abula said:


> @*Fullereneshift* thanks for the info, ill try the sites and links =)


 I checked again, but it seems some of the Tmall listings were taken down. (Hopefully) working links below.



Le Grand Macho Rev. B 
Macho Rev. C
HR22 PLUS
Silver Arrow 130
AXP-100 C65
Silver Arrow T6
Silver Arrow T8
TA-120
TA-140


----------



## Abula

@Fullereneshift thanks for the link, but didnt work for me, the side is wierd, just show no items found.

Out of all the new ones, the SA T8 is only one that interest me, which seems like TR4 version adapted to intel sockets, interesting that seems it comes with TY143 but on specs it has 600-1800rpm range. Might be interested on the HR22 Plus, but cant see any info on it.


----------



## Gilles3000

Specs for some of these new coolers are up on the .de site, the Macho Rev. C, T6, T8 and TA's just seem to be neutered versions of their existing coolers. Not sure why they're suddenly catering to the low end with barebones versions of existing coolers equipped with sleeve bearing fans(Except the T8).

I'd get it if they'd released a completely different low-end line, but this mucks up existing product lines, doesn't seem like a great idea to me. The TA's aren't that bad in that regard, but the others really shouldn't be carrying the Silver arrow and macho names imo.

Disappointment aside, the Silver Arrow 130 seems pretty cool, at 130mm tall, its stupidly short for a 120mm class dual tower, will be sweet for some smaller builds.

And its pretty cool that they're bring the HR-22 back, I recon that thing will be a monster with that 1800rpm fan on it.


----------



## doyll

Gilles3000 said:


> Specs for some of these new coolers are up on the .de site, the Macho Rev. C, T6, T8 and TA's just seem to be neutered versions of their existing coolers. Not sure why they're suddenly catering to the low end with barebones versions of existing coolers equipped with sleeve bearing fans(Except the T8).
> 
> I'd get it if they'd released a completely different low-end line, but this mucks up existing product lines, doesn't seem like a great idea to me. The TA's aren't that bad in that regard, but the others really shouldn't be carrying the Silver arrow and macho names imo.
> 
> Disappointment aside, the Silver Arrow 130 seems pretty cool, at 130mm tall, its stupidly short for a 120mm class dual tower, will be sweet for some smaller builds.
> 
> And its pretty cool that they're bring the HR-22 back, I recon that thing will be a monster with that 1800rpm fan on it.


TA-120, TA-140, Silver Arrow 130, Silver Arrow T8 and Silver Arrow T6 so far. I can't say any more at the moment. Le Grand Macho / Le Grand Macho RT is updated version of HR-22. I know LGMRT has 1 less heatpipe but still coolers better than old HR-22 did.


----------



## Gilles3000

doyll said:


> TA-120, TA-140, Silver Arrow 130, Silver Arrow T8 and Silver Arrow T6 so far. I can't say any more at the moment. Le Grand Macho / Le Grand Macho RT is updated version of HR-22. I know LGMRT has 1 less heatpipe but still coolers better than old HR-22 did.


Thought it was an actual updated HR-22, not just a HR-22 with a fan slapped on it. But if that tweet I saw has any validity to it, its only going to be for sale in china anyway(same for the Macho rev.C).

Maybe that's the point of most of these coolers, the Chinese market?


----------



## doyll

Gilles3000 said:


> Thought it was an actual updated HR-22, not just a HR-22 with a fan slapped on it. But if that tweet I saw has any validity to it, its only going to be for sale in china anyway(same for the Macho rev.C).
> 
> Maybe that's the point of most of these coolers, the Chinese market?


Where are you finding them listed? Thermalright has 3 websites I know of; international, German (Europe) and Chinese.


----------



## Dogzilla07

doyll said:


> Where are you finding them listed? Thermalright has 3 websites I know of; international, German (Europe) and Chinese.


I just noticed on the german website.


----------



## Gilles3000

doyll said:


> Where are you finding them listed? Thermalright has 3 websites I know of; international, German (Europe) and Chinese.


The Macho Rev.C is up on thermalright-china, the HR-22 Plus only on JD/Taobao.
http://thermalright-china.com/product/马乔rev-c/

While the HR-22 Plus doesn't have a product page yet, the pictures of the cooler and its box do seem legitimate. 
https://item.jd.com/100001708117.html


----------



## doyll

Dogzilla07 said:


> I just noticed on the german website.


I don't find any HR-22 on German website. Could you give us a link?




Gilles3000 said:


> The Macho Rev.C is up on thermalright-china, the HR-22 Plus only on JD/Taobao.
> http://thermalright-china.com/product/马乔rev-c/
> 
> While the HR-22 Plus doesn't have a product page yet, the pictures of the cooler and its box do seem legitimate.
> https://item.jd.com/100001708117.html


Not sure what Macho Rev. C change is, height is 158mm vs 162 on Rev.B, base is only 40x42mm vs 40x53mm on Rev.B, same TDP, TY-147AQ fan is 600-1500rpm compared to others being 300-1300rpm. That might be nice. 

HR-22 Plus looks to be same as original HR-22 with thicker base than newer coolers have (doesn't make it cool better but uses different mounting hardware), has new TY-143B 600-1800rpm fan and comes with older tried and proven deluxe adjustable pressure mounting hardware. Always like that mountting hardware.


----------



## Dogzilla07

doyll said:


> I don't find any HR-22 on German website. Could you give us a link?
> .


I apologize, i didn't specify which ones, i only noticed the same ones Gilles noticed TA-120/TA-140 and the Silver Arrows T6/T8 and 130, not the rest.


----------



## JackCY

RevC looks to have more bend away from RAM slots and shorter heatpipes up top, pretty much addressing some of the most common issues people have, clearance.
Anyone wants to donate me an HR-22 Plus?  That's one damn nice cooler, but pricey even on the Chinese site. Is it really 90 EUR + tax + shipping?

They should upgrade to at least the amount of heatpipes Spirit Power has, most of the other coolers have less which is all that makes the performance difference, heatpipes. 6x6mm vs 6x8mm.


----------



## AlphaC

Fullereneshift said:


> I checked again, but it seems some of the Tmall listings were taken down. (Hopefully) working links below.
> 
> Le Grand Macho Rev. B ¥499-599
> Macho Rev. C ¥369
> HR22 PLUS ¥699
> Silver Arrow 130 ¥399-499
> AXP-100 C65 ¥529-599
> Silver Arrow T6 ¥429-529
> Silver Arrow T8 ¥499-599
> TA-120 ¥299-379
> TA-140 ¥339-419


(Added taobao pricing to the quote in green)

Unless Chinese people are only buying 160mm CPU cooler clearance cases these new coolers don't seem to make much more market appeal in other locations.

Le Grand Macho Rev. B is kind of a misleading name. PCIE slot clearance may be the change in addition to a 1800RPM fan. It still has 7 heatpipes and weighs 1kg though , height has stayed 159mm. 1070g , 35 fins, FDB bearing ---- claims 6 year warranty quality assurance

Not _that_ impressed with the Macho rev C as there hasn't been any indication of large changes other than fan speed upped to 1500RPM and a few mm shaved off the top (from 162mm to 158mm). 720g with 31 fins and 140mm sleeve bearing fan ---- claims 6 year warranty quality assurance
---> tube of thermal paste is now included instead of that lame packet thing , screwdriver as well

HR-22 Plus: seems to be new fan only , not on website

Silver Arrow 130: 130mm height , 470g , 6x6mm heatpipes , 1500RPM 120mm FDB fan (red)
--> http://www.thermalright.de/kuehler/77/silver-arrow-130


AXP-100 C65 : copper is used here, which is a change from the earlier versions. Despite 6x6mm heatpipes it is rated 180W probably due to the downdraft slim fan.

Silver Arrow T6: 6 heatpipes , 710g, 42 fins, 1500RPM 140mm sleeve bearing fan
--> http://www.thermalright.de/kuehler/75/silver-arrow-t6

Silver Arrow T8: 8 heatpipes , 770g , 43 fins, 1800RPM 140mm FDB fan (red)
--> http://www.thermalright.de/kuehler/76/silver-arrow-t8

TA-120 : a 5 heatpipe design with 158mm height, 49 fins & 430g weight without fan and 1800RPM 120mm fan that has the rubber corners integrated... likely NH-U12s competitor_ although NH-U12s has 50 fins, 580g without fan and this is a few mm thinner_
--> http://www.thermalright.de/kuehler/79/thermalright-ta-120 ---- width is obviously wrong on the page as it can't be 142mm wide (taobao says 42mm)

TA-140 : a 5 heatpipe design with 160mm height , 45 fins though 450g weight sans fan is concerning and so is the sleeve bearing 1500RPM 140mm fan ... likely TS 140 Direct replacement (this isn't direct touch) but the red bladed fan was a poor decision on their part as it is less wanted compared to black or black and white
--> http://www.thermalright.de/kuehler/78/thermalright-ta-140


At this point I'm almost certain their TDP ratings are based off heatpipes and not so much fin area or fan speeds. Their 1.2kg HR22 is rated for 320W based off 8x6mm heatpipes while most other coolers made by them are rated for 240W if 6x6mm heatpipes and 200W if 5x6mm heatpipes.

The one heatsink that seems interesting is the Silver Arrow T8 , which may end up being worse than Le Grand Macho Rev B unless the pull configuration for the fan is optimal for the first fin stack. It doesn't have as much mass and the tighter fin stack (more fins) means lower fan speeds <1200RPM will likely suffer , especially without the ventilation through holes of the Macho series. It does have an advantage in the heatpipes are more spread out though.

The only really compelling cooler at current Chinese Yuan to USD exchange rates is the TA-120 at ~ $44-56 USD / €39-49. Macho Rev C at ~$55 / ~ €48 would sell. TA-140 wouldn't be able to sell well at $50-62 / €44-55 and the T8 would need to be amazing to ascertain a $74-89 / €65-79 asking price.

For reference the often $50 USD True Spirit 140 Power is ¥399 (converts to $59 USD / €52 Euro) on Taobao : https://world.taobao.com/item/565986238223.htm
The often $40 True Spirit 140 Direct (the direct touch 5 heatpipe more budget-oriented cooler) is ¥299 (converts to $44 USD / €39 Euro) https://world.taobao.com/item/565794544528.htm


----------



## doyll

JackCY said:


> RevC looks to have more bend away from RAM slots and shorter heatpipes up top, pretty much addressing some of the most common issues people have, clearance.
> Anyone wants to donate me an HR-22 Plus?  That's one damn nice cooler, but pricey even on the Chinese site. Is it really 90 EUR + tax + shipping?
> 
> They should upgrade to at least the amount of heatpipes Spirit Power has, most of the other coolers have less which is all that makes the performance difference, heatpipes. 6x6mm vs 6x8mm.


Good catch. I missed the angle/lean in first 3 heatpipes. 

Chinese prices don't usually translate to prices in other countries.

Thing is 6x 8mm heatpipes are 48mm side by side, so require a base more than around 52mm wide to fit into. Same with 8x 6mm heatpipes. With CPU dies/chips being a fraction that size this 48mm width means the outer pipes are not receiving near as much heat from chip and ones over chip/die. This is reason Le Grand Macho cools a little better than HR-22 did. 



AlphaC said:


> (Added taobao pricing to the quote in green)
> 
> Unless Chinese people are only buying 160mm CPU cooler clearance cases these new coolers don't seem to make much more market appeal in other locations.
> 
> Le Grand Macho Rev. B is kind of a misleading name. PCIE slot clearance may be the change in addition to a 1800RPM fan. It still has 7 heatpipes and weighs 1kg though , height has stayed 159mm. 1070g , 35 fins, FDB bearing ---- claims 6 year warranty quality assurance
> 
> Not _that_ impressed with the Macho rev C as there hasn't been any indication of large changes other than fan speed upped to 1500RPM and a few mm shaved off the top (from 162mm to 158mm). 720g with 31 fins and 140mm sleeve bearing fan ---- claims 6 year warranty quality assurance
> ---> tube of thermal paste is now included instead of that lame packet thing , screwdriver as well
> 
> HR-22 Plus: seems to be new fan only , not on website
> 
> Silver Arrow 130: 130mm height , 470g , 6x6mm heatpipes , 1500RPM 120mm FDB fan (red)
> 
> AXP-100 C65 : copper is used here, which is a change from the earlier versions. Despite 6x6mm heatpipes it is rated 180W probably due to the downdraft slim fan.
> 
> Silver Arrow T6: 6 heatpipes , 710g, 42 fins, 1500RPM 140mm sleeve bearing fan
> --> http://www.thermalright.de/kuehler/75/silver-arrow-t6
> 
> 
> Silver Arrow T8: 8 heatpipes , 770g , 43 fins, 1800RPM 140mm FDB fan (red)
> --> http://www.thermalright.de/kuehler/76/silver-arrow-t8
> 
> TA-120 : a 5 heatpipe design with 158mm height, 49 fins & 430g weight without fan and 1800RPM 120mm fan that has the rubber corners integrated... likely NH-U12s competitor although NH-U12s is 580g without fan and this is a few mm thinner
> --> http://www.thermalright.de/kuehler/79/thermalright-ta-120
> 
> TA-140 : a 5 heatpipe design with 160mm height , 45 fins though 450g weight sans fan is concerning and so is the sleeve bearing 1500RPM 140mm fan ... likely TS 140 Direct replacement (this isn't direct touch) but the red bladed fan was a poor decision on their part as it is less wanted compared to black or black and white
> --> http://www.thermalright.de/kuehler/78/thermalright-ta-140
> 
> 
> At this point I'm almost certain their TDP ratings are based off heatpipes and not so much fin area or fan speeds. Their 1.2kg HR22 is rated for 320W based off 8x6mm heatpipes while most other coolers made by them are rated for 240W if 6x6mm heatpipes and 200W if 5x6mm heatpipes.
> 
> The one heatsink that seems interesting is the Silver Arrow T8 , which may end up being worse than Le Grand Macho Rev B unless the pull configuration for the fan is optimal for the first fin stack. It doesn't have as much mass and the tighter fin stack (more fins) means lower fan speeds <1200RPM will likely suffer , especially without the ventilation through holes of the Macho series. It does have an advantage in the heatpipes are more spread out though.
> 
> The only really compelling cooler at current Chinese Yuan to USD exchange rates is the TA-120 at ~ $44-56 USD. Macho Rev C at ~$55 would sell. TA-140 wouldn't be able to sell well at $50-62 and the T8 would need to be amazing to ascertain a $74-89 asking price.


I can't find anything LGM Rev. B listed anywhere. Maybe it was originally posted and now pulled.


----------



## doyll

@ AlphaC;
Did some more comparison of Macho Rev.B vs Macho Rev.C. Rev.C heatpipes lean back moving finpack back 6-7mm with overall height 4mm shorter. I'm guessing the same fins are used in both, quite possible same length heatpipes before bending with their lean accounting for the shorter height. This extra backset means RAM sockets closer to CPU will clear fan on front of Rev.C. Rev.B is 53mm center CPU to front of fan while Rev.C is 46-47mm. Not sure I like the smaller base, but do like the additional setback and shorter height.

Silver Arrow T8 seems to have same base, heatpipe shape, and fins but is 5mm shorter in height and does not have caps on end of heatpipes. 

Le Grand Macho Rev.B seems identical to original Le Grand Mancho (w/o fan) & Le Grand Macho RT (w/ fan)

I like the idea of Silver Arrow 130. But I'm beginning o prefer single tower coolers to twin tower. 

AXP-100 C65 all copper construction is kinda nice but if like other all copper coolers will only be 1-2c better cooling, maybe 3c better so not worth the added expense. I wish Thermalright hadn't changed the original AXP-100 to taller AXP-100H but instead had added AXP-100H for those applications that need move motherboard clearance.

Silver Arrow T6 looks to be a Silver Arrow IB-E with 6x instead of 8x 6mm heatpipes and one less fin in each finpack. Much like Silver Arrow ITX is a 6 heatpipe Silver Arrow SB-E. 

I agree the TA cooler just more TRUE Spirit coolers with a few mods. TA120's 5x 6mm heatpipes is nice step up.

Silver Arrow T8 advantages are shorter 158mm height will fit where Silver Arrow IB-E at 163 will not and of course has 600-1800rpm fan instead of 300-1300rpm on original Silver Arrow IB-E (discontinued) and 600-2500rpm fans on Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme. 

Definitely looking forward to testing them out.


----------



## doyll

JackCY said:


> RevC looks to have more bend away from RAM slots and shorter heatpipes up top, pretty much addressing some of the most common issues people have, clearance.
> Anyone wants to donate me an HR-22 Plus?  That's one damn nice cooler, but pricey even on the Chinese site. Is it really 90 EUR + tax + shipping?
> 
> They should upgrade to at least the amount of heatpipes Spirit Power has, most of the other coolers have less which is all that makes the performance difference, heatpipes. 6x6mm vs 6x8mm.


I'm still trying to find out more about HR-22 Plus. Appears to be same cooler as HR-22 but it's weight is 1170g (1300g w/ fan) versus original HR-22 being 1120g. TY-147A fan (same design) weights 160g so 1300g - 160g = 1140g - 10-20g fan clips = 1120-1130g .. so very close if not same weight. I've emailed Thermalright but with it being Chinese New Year in 2 days I might not hear back until after.


----------



## white owl

So I'm about to order a TS140P and I thought I'd see if it will fit in my case first. Turns out the cooler is 171mm tall with the fan and my case will allow 165mm. I have two Carsair SP120s on my cooler now, would swapping them out be enough to make it fit? I like the fan that's on it but if that's what it takes I'll do it.


These coolers aren't actually available in much of the US but Newegg has a reseller that has them. They're priced at $50 with $10 shipping but I can't find a better cooler in the $60 range either so I think it's still worth it.


----------



## deepor

white owl said:


> [...] Turns out the cooler is 171mm tall with the fan and my case will allow 165mm. I have two Carsair SP120s on my cooler now, would swapping them out be enough to make it fit? [...]



The cooler by itself is 171 mm. Check this out:

https://i.imgur.com/H2WQesY.jpg


----------



## doyll

white owl said:


> So I'm about to order a TS140P and I thought I'd see if it will fit in my case first. Turns out the cooler is 171mm tall with the fan and my case will allow 165mm. I have two Carsair SP120s on my cooler now, would swapping them out be enough to make it fit? I like the fan that's on it but if that's what it takes I'll do it.
> 
> 
> These coolers aren't actually available in much of the US but Newegg has a reseller that has them. They're priced at $50 with $10 shipping but I can't find a better cooler in the $60 range either so I think it's still worth it.


 Yes! Even at $60 it is as good as the best costing $20-30 more, but as Deeper has already pointed out, cooler w/o fan is 171mm tall. 

Scythe Mugen 5 Rev.B is also very good for $47.99 on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Mugen-Rev-CP...he+cpu+cooler&qid=1550424058&s=gateway&sr=8-3


----------



## white owl

Bullocks. Shame to let 6mm get in the way of the cooler you want. I'm only cooling a 4790k so I doubt there will be any difference between the TS140 and the Mugen but I really like the look of the TS. The price difference shipped is $3 lol
I really appreciate it guys, that would have been really annoying when it got here and I had to drill 12 holes in my case haha.


----------



## AlphaC

The 6 heatpipe Mugen 5 is more in line with TS 140 BW/A or Macho than a TS 140 Power if you equalize for fans. It's still more than enough for any load ~ 150W : it should be decent up to around 200W if you swap the low speed fan. In computerbase's reviews I've seen the Mugen 5 rev B match Macho Rev B despite using a 120mm fan and in Ryzen reviews it's been shown to handle 170W.

The TS 140 Power uses 8mm heatpipes which can move more heat than 6mm ones. It's more or less equivalent to the Archon (8x 6mm heatpipes) in terms of heatpipe potential. That's why their on paper TDP rating is 360W.

Unless you're loading up your i7 quadcore past 150W I doubt you will see more than 1-2°C difference.


People have been able to fit 168mm tall Cryorig R1 into the Corsair 450D though.


----------



## ciarlatano

white owl said:


> Bullocks. Shame to let 6mm get in the way of the cooler you want. I'm only cooling a 4790k so I doubt there will be any difference between the TS140 and the Mugen but I really like the look of the TS. The price difference shipped is $3 lol
> I really appreciate it guys, that would have been really annoying when it got here and I had to drill 12 holes in my case haha.


The Fuma is available, also - https://www.amazon.com/Scythe-56500-Heatsink-CPU-Black/dp/B071XCCM7V
I haven't used one, but some users very credible users here are high on it. May be more to your taste than the Mugen (or it may not).


----------



## white owl

Thanks guys. The Fuma actually has free shipping and the Mugen does not so that makes it about $10 cheaper than the Mugen of the TS140P.
I'd prefer the TS though, I feel like it's probably still a better cooler but is it good enough to cost me $13 more and risk the 2mm being enough to not fit? I'll sleep on it and see. I'm using a damn 212 Evo right now so I can't really go wrong, even an H5 or H7 would be an "upgrade" lol.


Wouldn't happen to still have that R1 for sale would you?


----------



## Bruizer

white owl said:


> Thanks guys. The Fuma actually has free shipping and the Mugen does not so that makes it about $10 cheaper than the Mugen of the TS140P.
> I'd prefer the TS though, I feel like it's probably still a better cooler but is it good enough to cost me $13 more and risk the 2mm being enough to not fit? I'll sleep on it and see. I'm using a damn 212 Evo right now so I can't really go wrong, even an H5 or H7 would be an "upgrade" lol.
> 
> 
> Wouldn't happen to still have that R1 for sale would you?


Sounds like it's just time to upgrade le ole' case!


----------



## ciarlatano

white owl said:


> Thanks guys. The Fuma actually has free shipping and the Mugen does not so that makes it about $10 cheaper than the Mugen of the TS140P.
> I'd prefer the TS though, I feel like it's probably still a better cooler but is it good enough to cost me $13 more and risk the 2mm being enough to not fit? I'll sleep on it and see. I'm using a damn 212 Evo right now so I can't really go wrong, even an H5 or H7 would be an "upgrade" lol.
> 
> 
> Wouldn't happen to still have that R1 for sale would you?


The R1 is gone. Have a black PH-TC14PE and Macho Zero around. Should have a Dark rock Pro 3, too. And maybe a U14S.....and some other stuff.


----------



## Aenra

He has _space_(tm).. :sad-smile


----------



## ITAngel

Is the TRUE Spirit 140 Power better than a be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 on a 9900K? If so I thinking of selling mine and grabbing the TRUE Spirit 140 Power instead.


----------



## doyll

ITAngel said:


> Is the TRUE Spirit 140 Power better than a be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 on a 9900K? If so I thinking of selling mine and grabbing the TRUE Spirit 140 Power instead.


Educated guess is probably a little better but not a lot with stock fan. Change stock 1300rpm fan to TY-143 2500rpm or TY-143B 1800rpm and it will out-perform Dark Rock Pro by several degrees .. but you will need to also increase case airflow with similar intake and exhaust fans. Even a Ph-F140HP_II (1600rpm) will improve temps a few degrees over stock 1300rpm fan.


----------



## ITAngel

doyll said:


> Educated guess is probably a little better but not a lot with stock fan. Change stock 1300rpm fan to TY-143 2500rpm or TY-143B 1800rpm and it will out-perform Dark Rock Pro by several degrees .. but you will need to also increase case airflow with similar intake and exhaust fans. Even a Ph-F140HP_II (1600rpm) will improve temps a few degrees over stock 1300rpm fan.


Well a case such as the Cooler Master MasterCase SL600M with dual 200mm on the bottom and dual 140ML fans on top will do the trick?


----------



## doyll

ITAngel said:


> Well a case such as the Cooler Master MasterCase SL600M with dual 200mm on the bottom and dual 140ML fans on top will do the trick?


I don't know. It's a weird case design with bottom to top airflow over conventional motherboard orientation means all the heat coming off of GPU is moving up around CPU cooler .. they give no specs for the 200mm fans used only saying they are PWM controlled 800rpm. If they are same design as Megaflow 200 which is a 700rpm fan that is rated 110cfm and horribly low 0.595mm H2O @ 700rpm they will not flow much air through a grill and filter. Case doesn't even have a vent in back. You can remove all PCIe slot covers and not use motherboard I/O shield to gain some rear venting, but there would still be a solid panel behind CPU cooler where most other cases have a rear vent. 

But the above problems will be with any cooler used .. and even if using water cooling the top is only logical place for radiator, and enough radiator area to cool both CPU and GPU.

Case does look nice, but it's airflow layout makes it a dud ... even for water cooling.


----------



## ITAngel

doyll said:


> I don't know. It's a weird case design with bottom to top airflow over conventional motherboard orientation means all the heat coming off of GPU is moving up around CPU cooler .. they give no specs for the 200mm fans used only saying they are PWM controlled 800rpm. If they are same design as Megaflow 200 which is a 700rpm fan that is rated 110cfm and horribly low 0.595mm H2O @ 700rpm they will not flow much air through a grill and filter. Case doesn't even have a vent in back. You can remove all PCIe slot covers and not use motherboard I/O shield to gain some rear venting, but there would still be a solid panel behind CPU cooler where most other cases have a rear vent.
> 
> But the above problems will be with any cooler used .. and even if using water cooling the top is only logical place for radiator, and enough radiator area to cool both CPU and GPU.
> 
> Case does look nice, but it's airflow layout makes it a dud ... even for water cooling.


I have done my research on the fans they will produce 90 CFM and I plan to eventually replace them with BitFenix BFF-SPRO-20025KK-RP which does about 140ish CFM. Those fans are the MasterFan MF200R PMW non RGB. If I am correct about the CFM I plan to replace them eventually. Now I do have two extra Corsair ML140 PRO LED White 140mm PWM Premium Magnetic Levitation Fan. Should I replace those 200mm with those for now? Those are the one I have on the top of the case at the moment. 

MasterFan MF200R RGB - RGB version here
http://www.coolermaster.com/cooling/case-fan/masterfan-mf200r-rgb/

BitFenix BFF-SPRO-20025KK-RP - Replacement Fans?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0067LYYI...olid=20XZCU8P1KXHT&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

The idea of the cooler is to be able to either flip the cooler so it pulls air directly from the bottom and straight up or get a bigger one that will sit the way mine sit right now. Issue with the Dark Rock Pro 4 is you can't change the position unlike the Noctua NH-D15 cooler. or possibly the True Spirit 140 Power. I assume you can do that with that cooler or maybe not. You can see on the picture I provided from the event that they have the cooler facing down. My system is the one with the Dark Rock Pro 4. Also the IO is attached to my motherboard so no can't do except later on if I want to mod the case I can do an opening for a 140mm fan on the rear of the case.

Update: I found that The BFF-SPRO-20025KK-RP has an airflow of 148.72 CFM ±10%, and a static pressure of 1.26 mmH2O.


----------



## white owl

Are there even any good 200mm fans out there?
The top to bottom flow or reverse is kind a flawed. There's no way to separate the GPU heat from the CPU heat. The idea is to kinda force both out the back without the CPU or GPU taking in the other's heat. The back on that is sealed and the 200mm fans (typically bad for SP) are mounted flat against mesh. Mesh is OK if there's a gap.
Comparing CFM is like comparing TDP, there's almost no standard so each manufacturers claims are only good aginst their own and typically weighted in their favor.
The way they have it displayed there is terrible...vertical GPU dumping heat (from both sides) right into the CPU cooler.
With yours at least half of the GPU heat has some chance of getting around the CPU cooler simply because of the width of the case. Plus your cooler is close to the back of the card so that's probably ideal for such a design.


My philosophy is to have an intake right in front of a component and an exhaust behind it (or near it's exhaust).
I recently had a chance to re-do my case this way and the results are pretty good.


----------



## ciarlatano

white owl said:


> Are there even any good 200mm fans out there?
> The top to bottom flow or reverse is kind a flawed. There's no way to separate the GPU heat from the CPU heat. The idea is to kinda force both out the back without the CPU or GPU taking in the other's heat. The back on that is sealed and the 200mm fans (typically bad for SP) are mounted flat against mesh. Mesh is OK if there's a gap.
> Comparing CFM is like comparing TDP, there's almost no standard so each manufacturers claims are only good aginst their own and typically weighted in their favor.
> The way they have it displayed there is terrible...vertical GPU dumping heat (from both sides) right into the CPU cooler.
> With yours at least half of the GPU heat has some chance of getting around the CPU cooler simply because of the width of the case. Plus your cooler is close to the back of the card so that's probably ideal for such a design.
> 
> 
> My philosophy is to have an intake right in front of a component and an exhaust behind it (or near it's exhaust).
> I recently had a chance to re-do my case this way and the results are pretty good.


Agreed. Mounting the cooler to run bottom to top flow will have the GPU's heat being used to feed the CPU cooler.


----------



## Dogzilla07

There's also the choice of the new Noctua 200mm, and the new Thermaltake 200mm fan:

https://geizhals.eu/?cat=coolfan&v=e&hloc=at&hloc=pl&hloc=uk&sort=n&bl1_id=30&xf=11006_25~355_200


https://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NF-A20-PWM-Premium-Quality-Quiet/dp/B071SLFBNY/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=noctua+nf-a20&qid=1551200834&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Controller-Software-Radiator-CL-F070-PL20SW/dp/B07D95PLY2/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=thermaltake+riing+20&qid=1551200870&s=gateway&sr=8-3

But which one of the 3 is the best and do they even do as good/better at same noise levels compared to the Corsair ML140 i'm not sure. Probably best to put in the ML140s and test compared to stock 200mm CM fans even if you do decide to get new 200mm.


----------



## white owl

Not worth it IMO. For the price of two of those you'd be most of the way to a better case. Because of that I never bough any fans for my rig other than the ones I bought for it 4 years ago until recently when I found some Bitfenix Specres really cheap. I knwo fans can be moved to a new rig but more often than not 200mm fans can't. Even if they're great fans you still have the weird flow of the case. Looks like they tried to reinvent the wheel tbh.


----------



## ITAngel

Reason for my choice of case is to provide the GPU as much cooling as possible being that is a AMD Radeon VII which works perfect on this case. The GPU is barely getting hot anyways specially when my office sits at 63F to 66F most of the time. I barely break 68F when gaming on this setup now in the room which is nice. However, just wanted to see if i can optimized CPU cooling a bit more. Like I said is not killing me on the CPU temp side of things I just want as much air flow in the case while still providing the best cooling heat sink as possible to the CPU. XD

When I ran some calculation 4 of the same case fans 200mm would provide 360 CFM while 4 of the Corsair ML140 provide 388 CFM with added noise. Note the noise is not so bad on this case compare to my old Thermaltake Core X71 case.


----------



## doyll

No idea how you are calculating but 2x 200mm fans each rated 100cfm in and 2 of same kind of fans as exhaust is only 2x fans of airflow through case. 

Also free airflow rating is what fan flows at full speed with no resistance .. like a fan hanging on strings in middle of room. It is not what a fan will flow through a grill and filter.
I agree with other posts, I don't know of any good 200mm fans. 

You have a case that will supply GPU with cool air at the expense of CPU receiving the heated air coming off of GPU. Sure, you can make it work, and I hope you enjoy owning it. But I am going to get one or advise anyone to get one.


----------



## ITAngel

doyll said:


> No idea how you are calculating but 2x 200mm fans each rated 100cfm in and 2 of same kind of fans as exhaust is only 2x fans of airflow through case.
> 
> Also free airflow rating is what fan flows at full speed with no resistance .. like a fan hanging on strings in middle of room. It is not what a fan will flow through a grill and filter.
> I agree with other posts, I don't know of any good 200mm fans.
> 
> You have a case that will supply GPU with cool air at the expense of CPU receiving the heated air coming off of GPU. Sure, you can make it work, and I hope you enjoy owning it. But I am going to get one or advise anyone to get one.


If I buy the same fans which I plan to have the same 4x fans on my case whether is 4x 140mm or 4x 200mm is the calculation I made. However now my current setup is base of 2x 140mm and 2x 200mm. = 140mm fan 194 CFM plus 200mm fan 180 CFM total combine of 374 CFM. So if I remove the 200mm fans and replace them with my other two 140mm fans they will produce a total of 388 CFM with of course added noise to the setup. Also to top it off the 140mm fans will have way higher static pressure to help. Static Pressure of the 140ML are 0.2 - 3.0 mmH20 with 400 - 2000 RPM @ 37 dBA Producing 97 CFM. 

True owning this case I knew I would trade CPU performance for GPU coolness and I run my CPU stuck even though it can OC currently on this setup just fine. My main concern is mainly keep the GPU cooled for all my task. I do after all run a AMD Radeon VII GPU. XD

At the end I figure a nice CPU cooler will help since like you mention the heat form the GPU will hit the CPU. Plus being that the cpu is not overclocked I figure having the best cooler possible on air will help a lot.


----------



## doyll

ITAngel said:


> If I buy the same fans which I plan to have the same 4x fans on my case whether is 4x 140mm or 4x 200mm is the calculation I made. However now my current setup is base of 2x 140mm and 2x 200mm. = 194 CFM of the 140 plus 180 CFM of the 200mm fans since they produce 90 CFM each a total of 374 CFM combine. So if I remove the 200mm fans and replace them with my other two 140mm fans they will produce a total of 388 CFM with of course added noise to the setup. Also to top it off the 140mm fans will have way higher static pressure to help. Static Pressure of the 140ML are 0.2 - 3.0 mmH20 with 400 - 2000 RPM @ 37 dBA Producing 97 CFM.
> 
> True owning this case I knew I would trade CPU performance for GPU coolness and I run my CPU stuck even though it can OC currently on this setup just fine. My main concern is mainly keep the GPU cooled for all my task. I do after all run a AMD Radeon VII GPU. XD


Stacking fans (intake & exhaust) does not increase the flow! 
If you have 2x 200mm fans in bottom of your case and 2x 140mm fans in the top the maximum airflow is larger of either the top fans or the bottom fans. 

Case only flows as cfm as intake fans are flowing into case or how many cfm the exhaust fans are flowing out of case. 

Case is not flowing the combined intake cfm combined with the exhaust cfm.

CFM of air cannot enter case without the same amount of CFM leaving the case. 

CFM of air cannot leave case without same amount of CFM entering case.

What flow in has to flow out / what flows out must flow in. 

Think of your case as a van sunk in a pond of water full of water with the van's open windows being your vents. Whatever amount of water you push into that sunken van through some of the open windows has to flow out for more to be push in.


----------



## ITAngel

doyll said:


> Stacking fans (intake & exhaust) does not increase the flow!
> If you have 2x 200mm fans in bottom of your case and 2x 140mm fans in the top the maximum airflow is larger of either the top fans or the bottom fans.
> 
> Case only flows as cfm as intake fans are flowing into case or how many cfm the exhaust fans are flowing out of case.
> 
> Case is not flowing the combined intake cfm combined with the exhaust cfm.
> 
> CFM of air cannot enter case without the same amount of CFM leaving the case.
> 
> CFM of air cannot leave case without same amount of CFM entering case.
> 
> What flow in has to flow out / what flows out must flow in.
> 
> Think of your case as a van sunk in a pond of water full of water with the van's open windows being your vents. Whatever amount of water you push into that sunken van through some of the open windows has to flow out for more to be push in.


Ohhh I see.... hmm.... good concept and got me thinking. XD

I guess is time to mod by getting a couple of these for the bottom up.


----------



## doyll

ITAngel said:


> Ohhh I see.... hmm.... good concept and got me thinking. XD
> 
> I guess is time to mod by getting a couple of these for the bottom up.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM2G5vLGcQQ












Don't believe the airflow spec of a fan. It is open airflow, no resistance at all and fan is running at full speed. A good guess is maybe 50% of rating at full speed and that is assuming the fan has 1.5+mm H2O rating.


----------



## ITAngel

doyll said:


> Don't believe the airflow spec of a fan. It is open airflow, no resistance at all and fan is running at full speed. A good guess is maybe 50% of rating at full speed and that is assuming the fan has 1.5+mm H2O rating.


Oh yea I remember those commercials about the speakers. XD I see, I see what you mean.


----------



## ITAngel

I mean this case is not bad at all check out the temps while doing light stuff around the pc.


----------



## Owterspace

Sounds like you could use some Deltas 

https://www.digikey.com/products/en...0d9&quantity=&ColumnSort=0&page=1&pageSize=25


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## mahN4

I'm currently using a BQ Dark Rock 3 in a Meshify C case(two front 140 Arctic fan's). Can I expect better temperatures with the Spirit 140 Power ? It should perform better than the Dark Rock Pro 3, right? I really like the design of the Spirit 140 Power and the price is absolutely a steal!


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## Bruizer

mahN4 said:


> I'm currently using a BQ Dark Rock 3 in a Meshify C case(two front 140 Arctic fan's). Can I expect better temperatures with the Spirit 140 Power ? It should perform better than the Dark Rock Pro 3, right? I really like the design of the Spirit 140 Power and the price is absolutely a steal!


I own a Dark Rock Pro 3 that sits atop an AMD 1100T overclocked to 3.9ghz at 1.425-1.45 volts and a Spirit 140 Power which sits atop an AMD 2700X. Unfortunately, neither have ever sat atop the other. BUT... after all the research I did on each and how they perform relative to all other coolers, I would say they are relatively equal/close. I can't tell from your comment if you actually have a Dark Rock Pro 3 or just the Dark Rock 3 currently, but if you have the Dark Rock Pro 3 currently, then I would stick with it bc I think any difference will be negligible for the money.

[Waits and hopes doyll doesn't shred post and make me look like a fool. Haha]


----------



## mahN4

Now that I read my own comment, you're right hehe. I own the normal version, BQ Dark Rock 3, but with the review's in mind, the True Spirit 140 should perform better than the Pro version or equal as you said, just wanted to hear that first hand. AM4 bracket are already included right?(got a 2600X) Do you get the Chill Factor thermal paste included?(how much?)


Do you recommend to change the fan to TY143?


----------



## doyll

mahN4 said:


> I'm currently using a BQ Dark Rock 3 in a Meshify C case(two front 140 Arctic fan's). Can I expect better temperatures with the Spirit 140 Power ? It should perform better than the Dark Rock Pro 3, right? I really like the design of the Spirit 140 Power and the price is absolutely a steal!


First you say' BQ Dark Rock 3', then you say 'dark Pro 3'

Dark Rock 3 has 6x 6mm heatpipes and is rated 180w TDP and Dark Rock Pro 3 has 7x 6mm heatpipes and is rated 250w TDP.


TRUE Spirit 140 Power has 6x 8mm heatpipes and is rated 360w TDP


Even if the TDP ratins are somewhat inaccurate, TRUE Spirit 140 Power has significantly more heatpipe area which translates into more heat transfer from cooler base to fins, .. so to me that means TRUE Spirit 140 Power should be able to cool better than Dark Rock 3. 


But having a cool CPU is not just what cooler we are using. It is even more important to have case airflow optimized so cooler is receiving air as close to room ambient as possible. Bottom line here is either cooler will do a great job as long as case airflow is supplying cooler with air at or near room temp. :thumb:


----------



## doyll

mahN4 said:


> Now that I read my own comment, you're right hehe. I own the normal version, BQ Dark Rock 3, but with the review's in mind, the True Spirit 140 should perform better than the Pro version or equal as you said, just wanted to hear that first hand. AM4 bracket are already included right?(got a 2600X) Do you get the Chill Factor thermal paste included?(how much?)
> 
> 
> Do you recommend to change the fan to TY143?


Yes, new TRUE Spirit 140 Power have AM4 mount. 



Keep in mind it is wide and tall being 155mm wide and 171.2mm tall, so make sure you have room for it. I use the included TIM. Works very well. 



I've tested TRUE Spirit 140 Power against other top tier coolers like NH-D14 with same fan/s on boht and found TRUE Spirit 140 Power was 2-3c better than D14 on i7 920 @ 4.2GHz .. and as D14 performs as good an NH-D15 with same fans and only cooler I know of that is 'better' than D15 is Le Grand Macho then basically we have TRUE Spirit 140 Power performing as good or better than any cooler made.  Testing was done with TY-143 fan/s which perform identical to TY-147A at same speed. Same fan/s was/were used on NH-D14.


I haven't seen any coolers with similar performance at or near the price of TRUE Spirit 140 Power, so it's my pick as best value as well as best performance cooler on the market. :thumb:


----------



## Bruizer

doyll said:


> I haven't seen any coolers with similar performance at or near the price of TRUE Spirit 140 Power, so it's my pick as best value as well as best performance cooler on the market. :thumb:


This!

And I actually replaced the stock fan with the TY-143... I don't really know if it was worth the difference/$17-$20. A little more top end, so a little more noise, and it reduced my temps by 1-2c. I've got good case flow but it's still not as good as it could be (cpu cooler probably pulling in more hot air from the r9 nano than I would like, even with pci slot covers removed in my Enthoo Pro M), so I may have seen more impact if I optimized my case flow.


----------



## doyll

Bruizer said:


> This!
> 
> And I actually replaced the stock fan with the TY-143... I don't really know if it was worth the difference/$17-$20. A little more top end, so a little more noise, and it reduced my temps by 1-2c. I've got good case flow but it's still not as good as it could be (cpu cooler probably pooling in more hot air from the r9 nano than I would like, even with pci slot covers removed in my Enthoo Pro M), so I may have seen more impact if I optimized my case flow.


 Problem is if TY-147A is replaced wiht TY-143 then case airflow needs to be also increased with at least a similar intake fan (I usually use no exhaust fans) so case airflow is increased to match the increased airflow of TY-143. If this is not done than cooler's TY-143 ends up re-using heated cooler air .. and every degree warmer air is into cooler translates into almost exactly the same degrees hotter the CPU will be.


In other words, while TY-143 increased airflow will lower extreme overclock temps by up to 9c, the airflow to cooler has to be increased to match .. meaning at least 1 or 2 case fans with similar performance as TY-143 flowing enough air through case to supply TY-143 on cooler with needed cool airflow.


----------



## Bruizer

doyll said:


> Problem is if TY-147A is replaced with TY-143 then case airflow needs to be also increased with at least a similar intake fan (I usually use no exhaust fans) so case airflow is increased to match the increased airflow of TY-143. If this is not done than cooler's TY-143 ends up re-using heated cooler air .. and every degree warmer air is into cooler translates into almost exactly the same degrees hotter the CPU will be.
> 
> 
> In other words, while TY-143 increased airflow will lower extreme overclock temps by up to 9c, the airflow to cooler has to be increased to match .. meaning at least 1 or 2 case fans with similar performance as TY-143 flowing enough air through case to supply TY-143 on cooler with needed cool airflow.


Thank you for being a part of these forums! You are a gentleman and a scholar.


----------



## mahN4

Bruizer said:


> Thank you for being a part of these forums! You are a gentleman and a scholar.



Thank you both for the answers!


----------



## upgraditus

Looking for one of the ryzen kits for a macho, TR don't have any in stock (nor a date for them) and I have since found out they charge about £13-15 for it or the universal kit is about £20.... half way to a full new macho lol, so I'm looking and thinking is the TS 140 power worth £12 more than a Macho? (£38 vs £50) or maybe the TS 140 direct at £45?


----------



## doyll

upgraditus said:


> Looking for one of the ryzen kits for a macho, TR don't have any in stock (nor a date for them) and I have since found out they charge about £13-15 for it or the universal kit is about £20.... half way to a full new macho lol, so I'm looking and thinking is the TS 140 power worth £12 more than a Macho? (£38 vs £50) or maybe the TS 140 direct at £45?


 If you have enough case clearance and motherboard PCie socket clearance for TRUE Spirit 140 it is the best price and best cooling.


TRUE Spirit 140 Direct performance is not even close to what TRUE Spirit 140 Power can do under heavy load. 

8mm heatpipes have about 50.52 sq mm of volume 

vs 6mm heatpipe having 28.26 sq mm of volume of flow area to flow vapor away from base
combined with 

8mm has a circumference of 25.12 mm of wicked surface to wick liquid back to base 

vs 6mm tubing having 18.84 mm circumference of wicked surface.


----------



## upgraditus

doyll said:


> If you have enough case clearance and motherboard PCie socket clearance for TRUE Spirit 140 it is the best price and best cooling.
> 
> 
> TRUE Spirit 140 Direct performance is not even close to what TRUE Spirit 140 Power can do under heavy load.
> 
> 8mm heatpipes have about 50.52 sq mm of volume
> 
> vs 6mm heatpipe having 28.26 sq mm of volume of flow area to flow vapor away from base
> combined with
> 
> 8mm has a circumference of 25.12 mm of wicked surface to wick liquid back to base
> 
> vs 6mm tubing having 18.84 mm circumference of wicked surface.


Thanks Doyll, yeah not sure about mobo since they aren't out yet  out of interest are there many full size boards the TS140 Power blocks the top 16x slot?

I think the TS140 Direct could've been improved slightly (since it uses the fixed plate mount) if they added an additional fin stack directly on top the base plate like Scythe do, it would take a ~ 40mm² unit.


----------



## doyll

upgraditus said:


> Thanks Doyll, yeah not sure about mobo since they aren't out yet  out of interest are there many full size boards the TS140 Power blocks the top 16x slot?
> 
> I think the TS140 Direct could've been improved slightly (since it uses the fixed plate mount) if they added an additional fin stack directly on top the base plate like Scythe do, it would take a ~ 40mm² unit.



With no standard as to where CPU socket is placed I don't even want to guess about CPU socket to PCIe socket spacing is. PCIe placement is standardized, and keeping in mind many mobos have moved primary 16x socket to 2nd from CPU now there is less cooler clearance problems.


----------



## upgraditus

Found an AM4 ready universal true btk kit from amazon.de https://www.amazon.de/dp/B00UN05Q6A?ref_=pe_3044161_248799201_302_E_DDE_dt_1 cost ~£14 including postage. The top plate has the dimple in like the older coolers had so doesn't fit without grinding flush but one can just use the existing plate.


----------



## doyll

upgraditus said:


> Found an AM4 ready universal true btk kit from amazon.de https://www.amazon.de/dp/B00UN05Q6A?ref_=pe_3044161_248799201_302_E_DDE_dt_1 cost ~£14 including postage. The top plate has the dimple in like the older coolers had so doesn't fit without grinding flush but one can just use the existing plate.


That mount is for thick based cooler like old Ultra series (TRUE) /IFX-14/HR-01/Ultima-90, etc. It is for their thick bases, not for newer thinner based coolers.


----------



## upgraditus

doyll said:


> That mount is for thick based cooler like old Ultra series (TRUE) /IFX-14/HR-01/Ultima-90, etc. It is for their thick bases, not for newer thinner based coolers.


It's the same, only difference is a mylar film layer, all the standoffs and plates are the same, I have a TS140 BW mounted on it as we speak on a Ryzen 2600 

Edit: Oh you mean the top plate with the dimple, right I see that now looking at it as it has a much deeper form.


----------



## AlphaC

upgraditus said:


> Thanks Doyll, yeah not sure about mobo since they aren't out yet  out of interest are there many full size boards the TS140 Power blocks the top 16x slot?
> 
> I think the TS140 Direct could've been improved slightly (since it uses the fixed plate mount) if they added an additional fin stack directly on top the base plate like Scythe do, it would take a ~ 40mm² unit.


TS140 Power is a different tier of cooler vs TS 140 direct.

It's the similar to difference between a NH-U12A with 7 heatpipes and NH-U12S with 5 heatpipes (not NH-U14S with 6 heatpipes)

I think TS140 Direct was somewhat a regression from TS140 BW RevA (http://www.thermalright.de/en/archive/40/true-spirit-140-bw-rev.-a?c=16) 

It's clear they tried to save cost by staggering heatpipes (the one in the middle of the two rows was removed) as Noctua does but also using a direct contact heatpipe (the flattening of the heatpipe reduces the heat capacity).

TS140 Power is AM4 ready if you have a recently made one within the past year or two. I have mine on R7 2700X


----------



## JackCY

If you want a narrow tower cooler you want the Power. It's all about the heatpipes. It's also not always well compatible with cases due to height. Or well available. Due to this other TR coolers are more popular.


----------



## Dogzilla07

If you need any AM4 mounts, these guys are one of the main distributor for Germany and seem to have all the mounting kits in stock:

https://www.pc-cooling.de/luftkuehlung/zubehoer-fuer-cpu-kuehler/befestigungskits/


----------



## doyll

Dogzilla07 said:


> If you need any AM4 mounts, these guys are one of the main distributor for Germany and seem to have all the mounting kits in stock:
> 
> https://www.pc-cooling.de/luftkuehlung/zubehoer-fuer-cpu-kuehler/befestigungskits/


Good source for mounts! :thumb: Thanks for the link. :thumb: Probably won't need it but nice to have in case I do. :thumb:


----------



## upgraditus

AlphaC said:


> TS140 Power is a different tier of cooler vs TS 140 direct.
> 
> It's the similar to difference between a NH-U12A with 7 heatpipes and NH-U12S with 5 heatpipes (not NH-U14S with 6 heatpipes)
> 
> I think TS140 Direct was somewhat a regression from TS140 BW RevA (http://www.thermalright.de/en/archive/40/true-spirit-140-bw-rev.-a?c=16)
> 
> It's clear they tried to save cost by staggering heatpipes (the one in the middle of the two rows was removed) as Noctua does but also using a direct contact heatpipe (the flattening of the heatpipe reduces the heat capacity).
> 
> TS140 Power is AM4 ready if you have a recently made one within the past year or two. I have mine on R7 2700X


I ended up getting a s/hand TS140 BW for £20 and that bracket from amazon for <£14. Not quite the same performance with high tdp loads as the power but not a million miles away and saved me ~£16. I already had a few TY-147A's left (grabbed 10 a good few years back when they were about £7 a piece) to swap for the higher idle RPM TY-147.


----------



## UnexplodedCow

Thought I'd jump in this thread, as I'm waiting on a 3900X to arrive, and also ordered (after a couple days of considering specs/performance/price) the TS140P, along with a couple TY-143 fans. I'd considered the Macho RT and Noctua D15 as well, but prefer having more space. I'd been in the land of water-cooling for the past 9 years, lack the time to maintain it now, and am finally upgrading from a 2700K that's been under water and overclocked for a while. That returned me to air-cooling. I'd been using a Hyper 212 LED with 2x Vardar F4-120ER fans to cool a 2700X for the wife, and during Intel Burn Test, and stock speeds/voltages, it was hitting 66C and not going any higher. The fans are quite similar to the Gentle Typhoon fans, and run 2200 RPM. I find that they not only pushed through radiators better than standard case fans, but also seemed to do well with the Hyper, so I'll see how they perform compared to the stock fan, and TY-143 pair.

The mounting design from Thermalright doesn't exactly thrill me, but if it's solid, then I have no complaints. It's going in a "Cooler Masher" HAF XB Evo, which supposedly has enough room, though I've not read entirely through this thread to see if anyone else has confirmed the fit. The case fans are already those same EK Vardars, as they sound good to my ear, and move a reasonable amount of air.

It's kind of a homecoming, as I used an SLK-900 topped with a 92mm Vantec Tornado on an Athlon 2500+M back in the day, and saw that chip hit somewhere in the 2.6 Ghz range. I miss that heatsink, though it did sound something like a hair dryer.

Thanks to everyone who's been working with these heatsinks and posting info!


----------



## AlphaC

The TS 140 Power is in a different league to 212 Evo. Firstly the heatpipes aren't direct contact, secondly the heatpipes are 8mm size with 6 instead of 4. This means it is far superior for any Ryzen 3rd gen chip that has a chiplet design as the outer heatpipes will also dissipate heat whereas on the Hyper 212 Evo will not make use of the heatpipes on the IO die side.

The fin area is far higher as well, with 155mm width and 171mm height it has an extra 11mm height and 30mm width. Just the width alone is 30% more area , and it's using 46 fins. Coolermaster 212+ used 57 fins tightly spaced (which kills its low fan speed performance) so I don't expect any major change to 212 LED. 

The Hyper 212 Evo is only popular because it has been sold for $20-25 oftentimes.

Just looking at the mass of the cooler should tell you how much more metal is in it. 212 LED heatsink weight: 468g , TS140 Power = 725g.

If you're using the 2200RPM Vardars, the TS 140 Power should outperform the 212 series with 2000+RPM fans when at 1200-1300RPM.

Even in a recent review with LGA20xx / 130W TDP (Ryzen default power limit is ~140W), the Hyper 212 LED was written as 55.8°C @ 12V while something like a NH-D15 was 48.8°C, NH-U14S was 49.1°C , TS 140 Power 51.8°C, Mugen 5 53.2°C. ---> Hyper 212 LED = 55.8°C / 212X = 60.8°C which is worse despite higher fan speeds on the 212 series

When limited to 30dB in the same test: NH-D15 = 52.6°C, TS 140Power =55.1°C , NH-U14S = 55.1°C , Mugen 5 = 56.9°C. ---> 212 LED is 65.7°C / 212X is 70.8°C which is *just over +10°C*

When limited to 40dB : TS140 Power doesn't get that loud, NH-D15 = 49.5°C, NH-U14S = 50.6°C , Mugen 5 = 53.3°C. ---> 212 LED is 59.1°C / 212X is 63°C which is nearly *+10°C* 

https://nl.hardware.info/artikel/7789/de-beste-processorkoelers-49-cpu-luchtkoelers-getest


----------



## UnexplodedCow

The Hyper 212 series mostly uses the same size fin section (which is ~112mm high, ~116mm wide, and ~45mm thick) with 57x .37mm thick fins, leaving ~1.6mm between each fin, so they're pretty close to one another, and high RPM fans, or push/pull perform much better. The Plus and LED models have the heatpipes spread out more, with part of the aluminum block in between the heatpipes. The Evo model has all four heatpipes directly touching each other. They work for the price, but aren't my first choice.

Once I receive the TS140P, I'll take some measurements, but based on the spec drawings, we know the total height, and where the fins begin above the base. If the drawings are to scale, then I'm guessing 10-15mm of heat pipe are above the top fin (going with 10mm as a general guess). I don't know the fin thickness. In any case, just by guessing, it's looking like the 46 fins are in an area of 116mm high x 155mm wide, and 53.4mm thick. I'm also guessing the fins are .5mm thick, which means ~2mm between each fin.

If both heatsinks were flat-edged (squared off) then calculating surface area would be easier. The Hyper is a bit easier as it is more square, whereas the TS140P has swept in edges toward the center (what looks like 5mm or more on each side). Still, I'll ignore the differences and assume that the Hyper has ~ 5,950 cm^2 of surface area (counting both sides of the fin as surface area).

The TS140P would have ~7,615 cm^2 of surface area. However, the reality is that it will be lower due to the shape of the fins. The other major difference is the fins being angled at the edges. We already know this helps with turbulence, and that makes sense.

In the end, I'd say the party piece of the Thermalright is it using 8mm heatpipes, as well as not flattening the bottoms, so the pipes themselves are more efficient. If the Hyper design (which is very much like other designs) switched to a similar base and heatpipe design as the Thermalright, it would likely perform better...maybe. Stopping laminar flow is a big deal, as far as I've read, with fluid dynamics and heat transfer. It was a huge deal with impingement blocks and radiators.

These are all just suppositions on the TS140P, and things I considered before purchasing. Still, I'll wait for it to arrive, and see how it performs, though from all reviews, and using higher speed fans, I'm hoping for 10C better than what the Hyper showed, despite going on a 3900X instead of 2700X (both having the same listed TDP, though reality is different). As a side, note, the 2700X core *does* contact all of the Hyper's heat pipes, as it is perpendicular. Food for thought


----------



## AlphaC

Having 8mm heatpipes isn't a party piece.


8mm heatpipes transfer up to 60W while 6mm transfer up to 40W. Also if you flatten a heatpipe you lower the heat transfer and a 90° bend reduces max heat transfer by around 5% (45° bends reduce by ~2.5%).


If you flatten a 6mm heatpipe you drop the heat transfer even further.


https://www.electronics-cooling.com/2016/08/design-considerations-when-using-heat-pipes/


I hope I've given you the theory_ and the data_ for you to make an informed opinion. It's an advantage from heatpipes + fin area mainly.


----------



## UnexplodedCow

Well, so far it arrived, as did the TY-143 fans for a push/pull setup. Currently testing in a mostly open case, so airflow really isn't a factor. The good news is that this thing *does* fit in the HAF XB Evo case, and a few mm are left overhead, only due to the area where a top fan would normally reside. It also fits the X570 Taichi board, and while coming close to the first PCI-E slot, roughly 5mm of space exist. The only sad part were some very slightly bent fins on one side at the bottom when I took the unit out of the box (shipped from Amazon in a box with *zero* packing material).

It's not making very good contact, as it's actually performing worse than the Hyper 212 with the 2x Vardar 120 F4 fans, by about 1.5C overall (Intel Burn Test and Prime 95 in this case). I had the case open for the Hyper, as well. All the hardware is mounted down snugly (screws bottomed out, with a final small torque applied). This is on a 2700X at stock speeds and volts, so nothing spectacular by any means, but I expected something significant. Removing one fan results in a rise of 1C further.

With one or two fans, the CPU idles around 27C. Without fans it idles around 30C, and I left it like that for about ten minutes each time to be sure.

Temps are taken in Ryzen Master, and is what I'd previously used. Room temp has been a steady 25C, 49% humidity.

While typing this up, I decided to stop, and checked the heatsink base, and in the "long" direction (across the heatpipes) it's quite flat. In the "short" direction (along the heatpipes), a 1.1mm gap was measured if placing the straight edge on one end of the base, and meeting the center high spot. If balancing directly on center, I have roughly .55mm space beneath each end of the straight edge. I used the same straight edge on the CPU to be sure, and it showed dead flat. No feeler gauges could fit between any part of the straight edge. The straight edge itself is part of a micrometer, and machined quite flat and square, and it's proven to be accurate in years past. I've heard of being convex, but only in one axis, and that extreme, is a bit much.

Looks like it'll have to be returned for an exchange.... yay, more work swapping out the hardware again (for the fourth time). This new build is becoming quite the annoying thorn.


----------



## AlphaC

The only authorized supplier in the USA is Nan's Gaming Gear , is that where it came from?


----------



## UnexplodedCow

Yes, that's who it was bought from. Nan's sells through Amazon, and probably has stock there, given the Prime shipping, and cross-shipping a replacement.


----------



## doyll

UnexplodedCow said:


> Well, so far it arrived, as did the TY-143 fans for a push/pull setup. Currently testing in a mostly open case, so airflow really isn't a factor. The good news is that this thing *does* fit in the HAF XB Evo case, and a few mm are left overhead, only due to the area where a top fan would normally reside. It also fits the X570 Taichi board, and while coming close to the first PCI-E slot, roughly 5mm of space exist. The only sad part were some very slightly bent fins on one side at the bottom when I took the unit out of the box (shipped from Amazon in a box with *zero* packing material).
> 
> It's not making very good contact, as it's actually performing worse than the Hyper 212 with the 2x Vardar 120 F4 fans, by about 1.5C overall (Intel Burn Test and Prime 95 in this case). I had the case open for the Hyper, as well. All the hardware is mounted down snugly (screws bottomed out, with a final small torque applied). This is on a 2700X at stock speeds and volts, so nothing spectacular by any means, but I expected something significant. Removing one fan results in a rise of 1C further.
> 
> With one or two fans, the CPU idles around 27C. Without fans it idles around 30C, and I left it like that for about ten minutes each time to be sure.
> 
> Temps are taken in Ryzen Master, and is what I'd previously used. Room temp has been a steady 25C, 49% humidity.
> 
> While typing this up, I decided to stop, and checked the heatsink base, and in the "long" direction (across the heatpipes) it's quite flat. In the "short" direction (along the heatpipes), a 1.1mm gap was measured if placing the straight edge on one end of the base, and meeting the center high spot. If balancing directly on center, I have roughly .55mm space beneath each end of the straight edge. I used the same straight edge on the CPU to be sure, and it showed dead flat. No feeler gauges could fit between any part of the straight edge. The straight edge itself is part of a micrometer, and machined quite flat and square, and it's proven to be accurate in years past. I've heard of being convex, but only in one axis, and that extreme, is a bit much.
> 
> Looks like it'll have to be returned for an exchange.... yay, more work swapping out the hardware again (for the fourth time). This new build is becoming quite the annoying thorn.


 Don't trust air temp into cooler to be room temp even with side cover off. Most of my builds supply air cooler to room temp with wide cover on.  Obvious reason is case airflow is optimized for case with side cover on. 



Yeah, does sound like too much convex on base .. but I would make sure your TIM print is covering all of CPU die area under IHS.


----------



## doyll

dbl post


----------



## UnexplodedCow

All fans were at 100% in the case (3x 120mm F4 Vardar up top, plus the 2x TY-143 on the CPU heatsink, plus the GPU fan), and the case is under the air conditioning vent, so the air around it is typically cooler than the rest of the room, but it still paints a picture 

What caused me to check the base was due to a horrible contact with the CPU heat spreader - roughly half of the heatsink actually made contact, and with that much of a convex angle of the base (only in one axis) I would easily deem the specific heatsink I received as defective. It happens. I've done machine-work in the past, where .0010" or sometimes less, can be out of tolerance, and machines (or operators) aren't always perfect. 

Sadly, this is also far from my first system building rodeo. What I find comical is how I can build a machine for anyone, and never receive a defective part, but as soon as I start a new build, at least one part is defective and sets me back a week or two, if not longer. Story of my life since I started building machines decades ago. Despite no changes in handling, or even models of hardware between what was built for others or myself (sometimes alongside), I seem to always receive something broken. It's a simple, semi-pointless musing about the subject, though it was extremely frustrating the first five builds, when it was taking two to four months, on average, of RMAing parts to get something that worked. One part took a lovely 13 months to replace. If this replacement Thermalright is also defective, I'll just return it and go with the second choice of a Noctua D15S.


----------



## UnexplodedCow

The replacement heatsink arrived; curled up fins, looking used, and also had the exact same convex base issue (only in one axis). I have to assume that it's either a bad batch that Amazon is holding for Nan's, or they're just too convex a base for my uses. In any case, getting a used replacement was Amazon's fault, and I'm not at all amused. Suffice it to say that, for now, I'm going to the D15S and going dual fan with it. Not what I had originally planned, but such is life.


----------



## ciarlatano

UnexplodedCow said:


> The replacement heatsink arrived; curled up fins, looking used, and also had the exact same convex base issue (only in one axis). I have to assume that it's either a bad batch that Amazon is holding for Nan's, or they're just too convex a base for my uses. In any case, getting a used replacement was Amazon's fault, and I'm not at all amused. Suffice it to say that, for now, I'm going to the D15S and going dual fan with it. Not what I had originally planned, but such is life.


You aren't the first to have contact issues with the Thermalright/Ryzen combo. Frankly, Intel and AMD should standardize this together. Far simpler than forcing cooling manufacturers to start making different bases for different chips.


----------



## vonHannawald

Is this problem only found with Thermalright coolers?
I've seen people complain about Ryzen and Thermalright not only on this forum but also on two German forums.
Is Noctua or any other manufacturer better?
Has Thermalright fixed this problem with their special Macho AM4 only version? (Unfortunately it's just the normal Macho, not the LGM)
Any tipps on how to check the Thermalright cooler base (being convex or concave) before installing it on the CPU?

People have been also planing both cooler base and CPU IHS and have gained some nice temeperature drops.


----------



## Owterspace

Over the last couple of days I ran a little experiment between my TS140P and LGMRT. I havent had LGMRT on my main rig in about a year, maybe more. Yesterday i took TS140P off of my 3770k, and saw the tim print. It looked like it covered the core area, but only the center 4 pipes were printed. I was satisfied with the performance, but it bugged me, so I pulled LGMRT off of my other rig and remounted on my main. The temps that I am getting are roughly 5c better, maybe a bit more, and was able to add 100mhz using LGMRT with TY-143. I really dont know how to explain this, I dont recall that much of a performance gap between the two before. IIRC they performed nearly identical, but not this time. The difference between now and then is before I was running a define R4, and now I am running Meshiy C with the same beast fans. As for TIM, I was using CF3, now I am using TF8. My stance on TS140P has not changed, for 50 bucks, you cant beat it. I have to wait until I get some more free time to investifate this further. 5c+ is a big discrepency.


----------



## doyll

UnexplodedCow said:


> The replacement heatsink arrived; curled up fins, looking used, and also had the exact same convex base issue (only in one axis). I have to assume that it's either a bad batch that Amazon is holding for Nan's, or they're just too convex a base for my uses. In any case, getting a used replacement was Amazon's fault, and I'm not at all amused. Suffice it to say that, for now, I'm going to the D15S and going dual fan with it. Not what I had originally planned, but such is life.


 Bummer. 

I've heard of another from Amazon with same problem, but his replacement was fine. I have lapped bases, but it takes a little time .. and of course can't be returned.


----------



## doyll

vonHannawald said:


> Is this problem only found with Thermalright coolers?
> I've seen people complain about Ryzen and Thermalright not only on this forum but also on two German forums.
> Is Noctua or any other manufacturer better?
> Has Thermalright fixed this problem with their special Macho AM4 only version? (Unfortunately it's just the normal Macho, not the LGM)
> Any tipps on how to check the Thermalright cooler base (being convex or concave) before installing it on the CPU?
> 
> People have been also planing both cooler base and CPU IHS and have gained some nice temeperature drops.


I've only seen these problems a few times, and considering how many sell word wide it's a very low percentage. I know Noctua do a convex base too, and many others. Thermalright has been using convex bases from about same time they started using heatpipes, and that was in 2003. 

As for checking, use a straight edge and look to see light under ends (convex) or in middle (concave).




Owterspace said:


> Over the last couple of days I ran a little experiment between my TS140P and LGMRT. I havent had LGMRT on my main rig in about a year, maybe more. Yesterday i took TS140P off of my 3770k, and saw the tim print. It looked like it covered the core area, but only the center 4 pipes were printed. I was satisfied with the performance, but it bugged me, so I pulled LGMRT off of my other rig and remounted on my main. The temps that I am getting are roughly 5c better, maybe a bit more, and was able to add 100mhz using LGMRT with TY-143. I really dont know how to explain this, I dont recall that much of a performance gap between the two before. IIRC they performed nearly identical, but not this time. The difference between now and then is before I was running a define R4, and now I am running Meshiy C with the same beast fans. As for TIM, I was using CF3, now I am using TF8. My stance on TS140P has not changed, for 50 bucks, you cant beat it. I have to wait until I get some more free time to investifate this further. 5c+ is a big discrepency.


Look forward to seeing what you figure out about this. Maybe not a good seat or maybe base of TS140P is slightly more convex.


----------



## vonHannawald

doyll said:


> As for checking, use a straight edge and look to see light under ends (convex) or in middle (concave).


Maybe I should post this on the LGM thread, but I just tried it on a glas plate.
It's convex and I can even swing the cooler from one side to the other without any force at all.
Unfortunately I don't have my new Ryzen CPU right now, but is it really supposed to be this extreme?
I have bought the cooler last week and it also has the new AM4 kit.


----------



## deepor

vonHannawald said:


> Maybe I should post this on the LGM thread, but I just tried it on a glas plate.
> It's convex and I can even swing the cooler from one side to the other without any force at all.
> Unfortunately I don't have my new Ryzen CPU right now, but is it really supposed to be this extreme?
> I have bought the cooler last week and it also has the new AM4 kit.



Glass is guaranteed to be perfectly flat because there's a neat trick to how it's manufactured.

Maybe when testing on glass, the cooler will always rotate easily, even if it's just the slightest bit convex? It's perhaps better to just look at the base and try to guess how convex it is with a razor blade or similar.

Hopefully Thermalright didn't make your base too convex. They might have set up their manufacturing in a way that they try to guarantee to never have not enough curve in their convex base, so some of their coolers might then end up with an extreme curve.

The problem was always CPUs that had a concave IHS. Because of those CPUs, coolers had to be convex. When the coolers were flat or not convex enough and were put on a CPU with a terrible IHS, then the cooling would end up being total garbage because you would have a pocket of paste trapped in the middle of the CPU with no actual contact between cooler base and CPU IHS.


----------



## doyll

vonHannawald said:


> Maybe I should post this on the LGM thread, but I just tried it on a glas plate.
> It's convex and I can even swing the cooler from one side to the other without any force at all.
> Unfortunately I don't have my new Ryzen CPU right now, but is it really supposed to be this extreme?
> I have bought the cooler last week and it also has the new AM4 kit.


 What deepor said. :thumb:


The convex base is to hopefully gaurantee good contact in center are of IHS (not a heat spreader at all but a load spreader to put load just beyond edges of CPU contact pins) where the CPU die is mounted. The IHS is too thin to be a heat spreader, so all the heat comes through it within a few mm of CPU die size which is mabye a quarter the size of IHS. But it does vary with some CPU dies being quite large.


----------



## mahN4

Finally bought a TS140 Power. I really like how it looks in my PC 


Picture here:

https://imgur.com/a/idBq2au


Installation went fine, but what bothers me, I found some weird "scratches" on the base, do you think it affects somehow cooling performance?(the picture of the base is in the imgur link)


I'm using it with a 2600X, can somehow suggest me how to test it, if it performs as it should ?


Case and fans:
-FD Meshify C
-1x 120mm Arctic P120 exhaust back
-2x 140mm Arctic F140 (exhaust top, intake front)
-1x 140mm Thermalright 147A intake front


----------



## ozlay

Looks a bit funny on itx.



Spoiler


----------



## doyll

mahN4 said:


> Finally bought a TS140 Power. I really like how it looks in my PC
> 
> 
> Picture here:
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/idBq2au
> 
> 
> Installation went fine, but what bothers me, I found some weird "scratches" on the base, do you think it affects somehow cooling performance?(the picture of the base is in the imgur link)
> 
> 
> I'm using it with a 2600X, can somehow suggest me how to test it, if it performs as it should ?
> 
> 
> Case and fans:
> -FD Meshify C
> -1x 120mm Arctic P120 exhaust back
> -2x 140mm Arctic F140 (exhaust top, intake front)
> -1x 140mm Thermalright 147A intake front


Nice looking pic of cooler mounted in case. Don't see any of base. Top fan probably isn't helping. Have you removed the unused PCIe slot covers for more vent area around GPU and thus better front to back airflow? Doing so usually improves case airflow.


----------



## AlphaC

I'm not so sure it is a problem with the TS 140 Power as mine doesn't heat up any more than a NH-U14S (with Ryzen 7 chips).


It's probably that Thermalright isn't making them as often so the new ones are somehow different or the tooling is aged.


----------



## Gilles3000

ozlay said:


> Looks a bit funny on itx.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


There's something really satisfying about putting massive coolers on itx boards. 

Here's my previous one:


Spoiler


----------



## ozlay

Gilles3000 said:


> There's something really satisfying about putting massive coolers on itx boards.
> 
> Here's my previous one:
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Now i want to get a stx board and mount it to it.


----------



## mahN4

doyll said:


> Nice looking pic of cooler mounted in case. Don't see any of base. Top fan probably isn't helping. Have you removed the unused PCIe slot covers for more vent area around GPU and thus better front to back airflow? Doing so usually improves case airflow.



Thanks doyll! The picture should be just below the case pic. Yeah I had my doubts about the top fan too. I had it as front intake before, but I put the Thermalright 147A there  Need to do some testing if it actually helps. Didn't removed the PCIe slot covers yet, is it going to help although the covers already have small holes ? How to test/what temps to expect with the TS140P? The TY143 is currently limited to 1350RPM(same as the 147A) Using Chill Factor 3.

@*Gilles3000* I totally agree, that looks 100x better than any AIO!


----------



## doyll

ozlay said:


> Looks a bit funny on itx.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


 Cooler does make mobo look like a dwarf. 


What fan is that on back pulling? Is it Cryorig XF140?






mahN4 said:


> Thanks doyll! The picture should be just below the case pic. Yeah I had my doubts about the top fan too. I had it as front intake before, but I put the Thermalright 147A there  Need to do some testing if it actually helps. Didn't removed the PCIe slot covers yet, is it going to help although the covers already have small holes ? How to test/what temps to expect with the TS140P? The TY143 is currently limited to 1350RPM(same as the 147A) Using Chill Factor 3.


Here is link to basic tutorial of case airflow and how to optimize it. At end is low cost remote sensor thermomter I use to monitor airflow temp into cooler and other places inside of case when stress testing.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/22319249-post5.html


Lots of other good info in that thread posted by others and myself. You might have seen it already.


----------



## vonHannawald

Sorry for the bad quality, but it's cloudy and I only have my phone to take pics with.
Here is a picture of the base of my LGM RT bought last week.
I've used a bevelled steel square.


----------



## Owterspace

doyll said:


> Look forward to seeing what you figure out about this. Maybe not a good seat or maybe base of TS140P is slightly more convex.



I've remounted TS140P a few times over the last couple of months experimenting with TF8. I think my mount was good, but right now, I am leaning towards being a bit too much convex for my little cpu. I have it installed on x5690 right now, but system is not powered up, or ready for work. I am thinking it may do a better job on there because it has a bigger ihs.. maybe. 4700mhz on LGMRT is slightly better than 4600 on TS140P. Whale Eye Beef Hooked. Also using TY143 on LGMRT.. She does spin a bit more freely on this cooler as well.


----------



## Owterspace

vonHannawald said:


> Sorry for the bad quality, but it's cloudy and I only have my phone to take pics with.
> Here is a picture of the base of my LGM RT bought last week.
> I've used a bevelled steel square.


That looks good, nice pic.


----------



## doyll

vonHannawald said:


> Sorry for the bad quality, but it's cloudy and I only have my phone to take pics with.
> Here is a picture of the base of my LGM RT bought last week.
> I've used a bevelled steel square.


Really hard to tell becuase of light reflecting off of base on near side of straight edge as well as the plastic cover on base. At a glance it doesn't look too bad. Light through a crack tends to look much bigger than it actually is.


----------



## ozlay

doyll said:


> What fan is that on back pulling? Is it Cryorig XF140?


Yeah, I think it has slightly higher pressure then then TY-147. But i have to do some testing. I might be better without it.


----------



## doyll

ozlay said:


> Yeah, I think it has slightly higher pressure then then TY-147. But i have to do some testing. I might be better without it.



I found Cryorig to be slightly louder. Not sure if it was actual pressure level or just their sound profile not being as pleasant to my ears.


----------



## vonHannawald

Thanks for the feedback.
Here is another try.I'm just too stupid to use a camera....

If I had my Ryzen already, I wouldn't be fiddling arround with this like that.

Just to keep things short.
AMD Ryzen has a convex IHS in contrast to Intel's concave base.
AMD Ryzen has apparently some heat issues per user feedback.
AMD Ryzen has a chiplet design, thus the main heat center is not in the middle of the IHS. (Thermalright advertises that the convex cooler base is optimized for the heat source in the middle of the IHS.)
Thermalright LGM RT, SP 140 and SA IB-E-Extreme have a slightly convex base as advertised on the official Thermalright website.
Thermalright ARM-M14 has apparently a concave base, but it isn't neraly cooling as good as the other coolers.
Noctua NH D15 SE-AM4 has also a convex base as adveritsed on the official Noctua website.
Cryorig apparently also.
Convex on Convex is bad.
Thermal paste can compensate this to a degree.

On the contrast, all the AiO apparently have a flat base and are still worse than the above mentioned coolers.

Sorry for derailing this thread, but as an enthusiast I'm seeking for the best possible configuration.


----------



## doyll

vonHannawald said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> Here is another try.I'm just too stupid to use a camera....
> 
> If I had my Ryzen already, I wouldn't be fiddling arround with this like that.
> 
> Just to keep things short.
> AMD Ryzen has a convex IHS in contrast to Intel's concave base.
> AMD Ryzen has apparently some heat issues per user feedback.
> AMD Ryzen has a chiplet design, thus the main heat center is not in the middle of the IHS. (Thermalright advertises that the convex cooler base is optimized for the heat source in the middle of the IHS.)
> Thermalright LGM RT, SP 140 and SA IB-E-Extreme have a slightly convex base as advertised on the official Thermalright website.
> Thermalright ARM-M14 has apparently a concave base, but it isn't neraly cooling as good as the other coolers.
> Noctua NH D15 SE-AM4 has also a convex base as adveritsed on the official Noctua website.
> Cryorig apparently also.
> Convex on Convex is bad.
> Thermal paste can compensate this to a degree.
> 
> On the contrast, all the AiO apparently have a flat base and are still worse than the above mentioned coolers.
> 
> Sorry for derailing this thread, but as an enthusiast I'm seeking for the best possible configuration.


 Best configuration is probably lapping both cooler base and CPU IHS. That is only way I know of mating 2 uneven surfaces.


There are lots of written and video guide to lapping. Some of the videos show lapping of direct contact coolers .. something I do not advise because heatpipes on direct contact have already been cut flat .. meaning it's isn't very hard to grind off enough tubing to cause a leak causing the heatpipe to not work as intended.


----------



## UnexplodedCow

doyll said:


> I've only seen these problems a few times, and considering how many sell word wide it's a very low percentage. I know Noctua do a convex base too, and many others. Thermalright has been using convex bases from about same time they started using heatpipes, and that was in 2003.
> 
> As for checking, use a straight edge and look to see light under ends (convex) or in middle (concave).
> 
> 
> 
> Look forward to seeing what you figure out about this. Maybe not a good seat or maybe base of TS140P is slightly more convex.



I checked the Noctua that I bought, and it also has a slightly convex base. Not as convex as the Thermalright, but still fairly convex, and temps are roughly the same as with the TS140P. Hyper 212 outperforms both heatsinks on this chip, which is disappointing.

As for checking, to find a more precise measurement, an accurate straight-edge, and some feeler gauges are very useful.


----------



## Owterspace

If you are getting better performance with a 212 vs Thermalright and Noctua, then I have to question if you are using the correct mounting hardware, and if everything is mounted correctly? Either your 212 is a freak, flagship coolers are duds, or they aren’t installed properly.


----------



## UnexplodedCow

I wound up getting a second 3700X that is not defective (hooray for me), and tried things out. I think the 212 makes better contact due to its base, and the IHS being pretty flat. Minimal TIM needed (MX4 in this case). With the TS140P and the D15S (with the two fans), they have a slightly convex base, with the TS140P having more like a wedge-shaped base (one axis has the convexing, and the other axis is flat), and the Noctua is similar, though it is more conical.

The TS140P made poor contact, and after trying it 9 times was when I finally took a straight-edge to it to measure. The hardware is bonehead simple, and all screws were snugged after hitting their stops. I always got a half"butterfly" shaped contact pattern, so it was touching some in the center, and then squishing out to one end, with the other floating. I used a dot in the center, and one in each corner for TIM application. I eventually went to some lines in various directions, but no difference. The pattern makes sense due to the single-axis convexing of the base.

The Noctua seems to make better contact, and the TIM spreads to the entire IHS. The center ~11mm has the best contact, and virtually no TIM left in place, with most having been moved to the edges. Tried the same patterns as above, and it made zero difference. I think the real issue is that the chiplets in the new Ryzen chips are offset from center, so having the best contact on center isn't going to help. I mounted it 6 or 7 times by now, trying to find better temps. Their mounting hardware is even simpler than Thermalrights, and as long a screws are bottomed out, impossible to make a mistake on.

The 212, despite the small number of small heatpipes, is flat on the bottom, in both directions, and any TIM tends to squish in between the baseplate and heatpipes. Having the heatpipes directly over the chiplet areas (and not in the center) seems to allow for better performance.

It's a real piece of fun, and I may end up slightly lapping down a heatsink base just to get it to have less TIM in place, or use a liquid metal (not my first choice at all).


----------



## Owterspace

Thanks for the detailed explanation, my apologies for my earlier post. Damn that 212 lol it just makes me hate it more lol. Maybe it’s a good thing I still have one.. dammit.

😄


----------



## UnexplodedCow

I attached a picture of the D15 after trying it with the NT-H1 grease it came with. Probably a bit much, but the pattern shows what's going on. 3, maybe 4 heatpipes are making solid contact and doing anything. The outer two or three are just along for the ride, so having a direct contact heatpipe performing better makes sense.

I even just tried swapping on the stock Wraith heatsink, never installed it before. Under Prime95, it's about 6C hotter with normal fans than the D15 is with all fans at 100% (case and CPU). It's clearly making better contact, despite being quite small and having less cooling ability. I don't think the D15 is a dud at all; just bad contact. I think the same of the Thermalright I had. It might be a good idea for IHS to start being vapor chambers to help spread the heat load, as well as matching the base to IHS.

Also, sorry for going horribly off topic. I'll stop posting on this, and if anyone wants to PM or such to discuss, I'll look forward to it.


----------



## vonHannawald

Is this the normal version or the SE-AM4 version?


----------



## UnexplodedCow

Normal D15S, but using a Thermalright TY143 fan in the middle and an EK F4 Vardar up front. I didn't see any difference in the AM4 versions other than they didn't come with hardware for other sockets.


----------



## AlphaC

Not sure about 3rd gen as I don't have one yet, but I doubt it's as large an issue as made out at least for 1st and 2nd gen Ryzen:
https://www.computerbase.de/2019-06...u-zu-raumtemperatur-ueber-schalldruckpegel-oc

R7 1700X was used as test CPU

Silver Arrow T8 is still relatively competitive at low RPMs, even if it doesn't exceed NH-D15 performance.

Scythe Mugen 5 is also slightly convex.

hwcooling says the following about Fuma rev B: _It is convex on one axis (for better contact with the IHS, but the area of the tip is quite small), and concave on the second axis – in the direction of heatpipes (Mugen 5 Rev. B has it in the opposite direction)._ https://www.hwcooling.net/en/scythe-fuma-rev-b-surprise-with-a-big-question-mark/

and Ninja 5: _The base itself is convex in both directions, but significantly more in the direction of the heatpipes _ -- https://www.hwcooling.net/en/test-scythe-ninja-5-evolution-of-the-revolutionary-predecessor/


----------



## UnexplodedCow

Ryzen 1st and 2nd gen are more like monolithic designs, with one long core down the center of the chip. 3rd gen is different with separate core chiplets and the IF/memory controller (what Intel would call "uncore"). The two designs are entirely different, and the 3rd gen relies more on the IHS to actually spread heat. Because it's also closer to the edge of the IHS, convex base designs will work very poorly unless the IHS is concave, and the two 3rd gens chips I've checked were flat, as was the 2nd gen (2700X) chip.

As far as the 2nd gen is concerned, the core shape would be perpendicular to the heatpipes of most tower coolers, and explains why the cooling performance wasn't stellar on the chip I temporarily used, as its IHS was flat, and the TS140P I tried sat more to one side than the other, allowing what I could imagine is a 1.5mm gap to be filled by the TIM. That's a lot of space to fill and I wouldn't expect any kind of performance from that gap.

For 3rd gen, I'm starting to think flat base will work best, possibly direct contact designs, or at least machining/lapping the heatsink base to fit the IHS.

Edit: Looking at it and comparing the TIM print on my heatsink, it's looking like good contact for about half of the CPU core, and 2/3 of the "uncore" (I forget what AMD calls it, and am too lazy to look it up right now). The 3700X lacks one of the chiplets of the 3900X. In any case, the IHS is having to truly spread heat load to the center compared to previous designs.

Here's a Ryzen 2nd gen (unsure of what model): 










Here's a 3rd gen ryzen (3900X specifically):


----------



## AlphaC

When it is mounted on the motherboard the CPU is rotated unlike on Intel boards where the text is upright (readable) since the lever is pointing downwards when you have the motherboard upright. For my Ryzen 7 chips I have not had the issues you allude to on the TS140 Power or NH-U14S.








(Image source: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/07/07/amd-ryzen-7-3700x-review/)


With Direct die cooling, this was the imprint , given the alternative orientation (would likely touch 2 heatpipes rather than 4) I would say that is the better layout:










Spoiler


----------



## UnexplodedCow

Exactly, the die for 1st and 2nd gen would be perpendicular to the direction of the heatpipes (IE: it sits across multiple ones). The alignment triangle is handy for orientation of the heatsink, and how it will sit.

For me, the TS140P was sitting imperceptibly tilted to one side while mounted. It would go from one to the other side, because of the slight convexing (wedge-shape) of the base. It was not quite contacting the entire area above the die, so cooling roughly 2/3 of the 2nd gen Ryzen die. The D15 would do better, but was not touching the ends of where the die was

3rd gen is a different story with the two or three incongruent dies. with the same footprint the center and slightly left portion of the IF/IMC die was being cooled, and the right 1/2 to 1/3 of the CPU die, particularly under the D15's footprint. Too much of a gap exists between the IHS and the heatsink base to allow for decent heat transfer. I have zero plans to "de-lid" my CPU, especially with the offset dies, even more so as they're soldered in place.

While you may not have encountered these issues, I most certainly have, and despite repeated mountings, the same issue remains; poor contact. The only consistently good contact is with a very flat-base heatsink. I'll plan to do some milling of a heatsink base and figure out the issue. But, at least the two TS140P heatsinks I had were making bad contact, but the Noctua is no better. Sometimes we really can't just assemble parts together and expect things to work optimally.


----------



## Owterspace

How much do you figure you needs to milled off? .020 or so?


----------



## UnexplodedCow

What I was measuring was near a 1.5mm gap, so possibly up to .060" though I'd realistically start at .030" and test. My goal would be for .0010" (~.25mm) or less of total change in Z-axis across the whole baseplate, which is not too much to ask, as cylinder heads are every bit as flat, or flatter across their length of a couple feet. If I could get that down to .0005" I would be very happy with the flatness, and it should mate well with the CPU IHS.


----------



## HalongPort

I legitimately think that the TS 140P with a flat base might be the best Cooler for Zen 2 because of it's 8mm heatpipes.

I'm going to test an ARO-M14, which is supposed to have a flat base.


----------



## UnexplodedCow

Agreed; those heatpipes are no joke compared to smaller ones, and I'm curious to see how well that M14 does.


----------



## Owterspace

Yes I’d probably start at .03 as well and go from there. I checked the print on my 1366 chip and it too looks like the center four are touching, I don’t think rotating it will help. I think I’ll bring it into work and stick it in a machine in between setups and buzz er down a little. I’m not on Ryzen but she could probably stand to lose 10 or 20 thou as is. I’ll grab some feelers and see what I can feel. I thought it was a good cooler before but I think this may help, and if not well it was only a few bucks.. still annoyed at the results from that 212 lol.


----------



## UnexplodedCow

I went and flattened out the base of the D15S, and temps are about 1-2C better than before. It is very clearly making full contact now. Temp under Prim95 is 76C. With video compression (Handbrake) it's averaging 67C. Room temp is 25C, and case fans are linked to the CPU fan speed, so it's moving a fair amount of air. I'm surprised by how toasty these chips are, or else temps are being misreported. I wouldn't find either difficult to believe.


----------



## AlphaC

Prime95 heats it up due to AVX2 , so turn off AVX2 when using Prime95. Remember that Zen2 has twice the AVX2 of Zen+ as it no longer combines two 128-bit AVX units and also has less area for the CPU cores (i.e. thermal density 1.5x).

Handbrake with 67 Celsius seems reasonable.


----------



## doyll

UnexplodedCow said:


> I went and flattened out the base of the D15S, and temps are about 1-2C better than before. It is very clearly making full contact now. Temp under Prim95 is 76C. With video compression (Handbrake) it's averaging 67C. Room temp is 25C, and case fans are linked to the CPU fan speed, so it's moving a fair amount of air. I'm surprised by how toasty these chips are, or else temps are being misreported. I wouldn't find either difficult to believe.


 What do you have Handbrake's priority level set at? If at 'normal' or lower it is not using all the CPU it can. Set it to 'high' for maximum CPU load. In Handbrake / Preferences / Advanced / Priority Level (4th down list), set it to 'High' for maximum load. 

Be sure you change it back after testing to 'Normal' or 'Below Normal' if you encode while doing other things on computer. Encodes will take longer, but at least comptur can be used.


----------



## UnexplodedCow

doyll said:


> What do you have Handbrake's priority level set at? If at 'normal' or lower it is not using all the CPU it can. Set it to 'high' for maximum CPU load. In Handbrake / Preferences / Advanced / Priority Level (4th down list), set it to 'High' for maximum load.
> 
> Be sure you change it back after testing to 'Normal' or 'Below Normal' if you encode while doing other things on computer. Encodes will take longer, but at least computer can be used.


Oh yeah, I forgot about that bit. Thanks for reminding me. 70C is now the average.


----------



## AlphaC

When you milled off the bottom of the NH-D15S , did you remove the nickel plating in the process? If you did make sure you use a thermal compound that doesn't react with the copper.


----------



## ozlay

Good quality fans. Bad quality pic.


----------



## UnexplodedCow

AlphaC said:


> When you milled off the bottom of the NH-D15S , did you remove the nickel plating in the process? If you did make sure you use a thermal compound that doesn't react with the copper.


Indeed, I did, in all but the very corners, to level out the base. True, bare copper does now preclude the use of any gallium based liquid metal, but I'll live, and recently acquired some Kryonaut to try compared to the MX4 or NT-H1.


----------



## Elrick

ozlay said:


> Good quality fans. Bad quality pic.



DAMN, the BIGGEST Thermalright Cooler sitting on what looks like, an Asrock X470 iTX Motherboard model (or similar)?


NICE one there. You really showed them what this cooler can do for the tiniest motherboard's :thumb: .


----------



## clannagh

UnexplodedCow said:


> Indeed, I did, in all but the very corners, to level out the base. True, bare copper does now preclude the use of any gallium based liquid metal, but I'll live, and recently acquired some Kryonaut to try compared to the MX4 or NT-H1.


If your really keen there are nickel plate kits around though they are probably a bit pricey if this is the only job you would ever use it for.

Also note that Noctua has released NT-H2 which has replaced NT-H1.


----------



## UnexplodedCow

Well, I tried a third TS140P, and flattened out the base. It averaged 76C for Prime95, using the same settings in that as before. The main difference is that it's using only one fan (A TY143) and it's on a slower fan curve than the one I used to test the D15, so that's a bit of a handicap for it to achieve the same temps (at a lower noise value) than the D15.

It also takes up less room, and the fan clips are far easier to work with. I'll probably clip on a second fan and see how it does. Good heatsink when it makes good contact.


----------



## doyll

UnexplodedCow said:


> Well, I tried a third TS140P, and flattened out the base. It averaged 76C for Prime95, using the same settings in that as before. The main difference is that it's using only one fan (A TY143) and it's on a slower fan curve than the one I used to test the D15, so that's a bit of a handicap for it to achieve the same temps (at a lower noise value) than the D15.
> 
> It also takes up less room, and the fan clips are far easier to work with. I'll probably clip on a second fan and see how it does. Good heatsink when it makes good contact.


When comparing coolers it is always good to record temps with fans at same speed, not fan curve. When I compared TY-140/147/147A/143 against Noctua cooelr fans I found Thermalright TY series fans to perform a little better (1-2c lower temps at same speed) all while making less noise and having a nicer sound profile. While 1-2c isn't much of a difference, their sounding nicer when loud enough to be heard makes them the better choice for me.


----------



## UnexplodedCow

Yes, I know this. My entire point is that the RPM (and noise) was lower, and using single fan, than dual fans at 100% on the D15. Even without stating the RPM, that it has one less fan, and is not 100% points toward a conclusion.


----------



## Owterspace

I didn’t bother milling mine down like I was going to. I did just rotate it and made sure I had enough paste, also when I tested last, 2 out of my 3 exhausts on my R4 were not running. @ stock clocks on my x5690 I am seeing the same temps again as I was seeing with LGMRT. For fifty bucks you really can’t go wrong with this cooler.


----------



## UnexplodedCow

Finally got the 3900X today, and test results over the 3700X are hilarious. 2C hotter under Prime95, and literally the same temp (70C) using Handbrake, still using the TS140P and lower RPM.


----------



## doyll

True Spirit 140 Power really is the best cooler out there .. and much lower priced as well!


----------



## HalongPort

Those are amazing results.
In the meantime, I've returned my LGM RT and replaced it with an ARO-M14.
My temperatures dropped from 80-82°C to 74-75°C.

However, I am still thinking about going with the True Spirit 140 Power or with an expensive Eisbaer (or equivalent AiO) just to get the most out of my 3800X.

How did you lap your cooler?
Obviously, there are a lot of tutorials and reports about lapping on the internet and a short summary is just to get a thick glass plate, sandpaper (800,1000,1200) and either make an eight or push the cooler in one direction 5-8 times and rotate it 45° clockwise.
In the end, polish it with a suitable paste.

That's quite scary for someone who never has lapped a cooler or CPU in his life. Buy a new cooler for 45-50€, lap it wrong and you neither have a working cooler or a refund option.


Edit:
In addtion, I am also thinking about replacing the 3800X with a 3700X. 
My 3800X scores the same as a 3700X in Cinebench Multi and it won't boost correctly.
A 3700X produces less heat thus the ARO-M14 should be the perfect match for it.


----------



## UnexplodedCow

Lapping by hand is imprecise, but still better than a convex base. I didn't have time to try machining the base properly, but went with the hand method, using diamond-coated files that I use on guitar repairs/builds (that are flat enough for the purpose), then finished up with sandpaper (I only had up to 400 grit) on a flat metal plate (glass will work, too), and then polishing compound to at least smooth things out some. The idea is go to slowly, stay accurate, and prevent the base from being convex again, or from being tilted.

A good, flat, knife-sharpening block will also work well. With such a large cooler, it's easy to reconvex the base, so inverting it (fins down) will help. I had mine slowly spinning while I used the file, and it made a starburst, or asterisk type of pattern overall (though it was constantly turning). The base did have a small ridge that was more like this symbol: /

Once I wore that down to cover the IHS, as the base is a little larger than, I flipped it over, and used the sandpaper, which was adhesive-backed to prevent it from sliding. I'd continuously turn it while moving it back and forth, and this not only worked faster for me than a back-forth/turn method, but it also kept the base flat. Keep the fingers as close to the base as possible, lock the arms, and use your torso to move. This will help minimize odd movements, and prevent the heatsink from tipping, which will convex the edge.

If you're really unsure, try contacting a machine shop locally and see what they'd charge; the end result would be very flat.


----------



## doyll

UnexplodedCow said:


> Lapping by hand is imprecise, but still better than a convex base. I didn't have time to try machining the base properly, but went with the hand method, using diamond-coated files that I use on guitar repairs/builds (that are flat enough for the purpose), then finished up with sandpaper (I only had up to 400 grit) on a flat metal plate (glass will work, too), and then polishing compound to at least smooth things out some. The idea is go to slowly, stay accurate, and prevent the base from being convex again, or from being tilted.
> 
> A good, flat, knife-sharpening block will also work well. With such a large cooler, it's easy to reconvex the base, so inverting it (fins down) will help. I had mine slowly spinning while I used the file, and it made a starburst, or asterisk type of pattern overall (though it was constantly turning). The base did have a small ridge that was more like this symbol: /
> 
> Once I wore that down to cover the IHS, as the base is a little larger than, I flipped it over, and used the sandpaper, which was adhesive-backed to prevent it from sliding. I'd continuously turn it while moving it back and forth, and this not only worked faster for me than a back-forth/turn method, but it also kept the base flat. Keep the fingers as close to the base as possible, lock the arms, and use your torso to move. This will help minimize odd movements, and prevent the heatsink from tipping, which will convex the edge.
> 
> If you're really unsure, try contacting a machine shop locally and see what they'd charge; the end result would be very flat.


Nice guide. :thumb:
Anyone looking to remove the convex for cooler base needs to be very sure their IHS on CPU is not concave .. because if it is you will end up with a void between flat base of cooler and concave top of IHS.


----------



## upgraditus

Yet another iteration of the Macho (rev.C) is silently released with a new high speed TY 147AQ fan, more convenient side mount fan clips, 4mm less in height and they've gone back to the smaller contact plate which could be good for Ryzen 3000.

Complete nonsense (Chinese?) product highlights: "In all the quality, insist on keeping the fanless design way to achieve the perfect way to improve all the performance. The patented technology allows you to enjoy the highest perfect cooling performance for the likes of the players." 

Strangely on Thermalrights page the fan is white/black whereas here it's a new grey finish...

Edit: On closer inspection the base doesn't actually look any smaller than ~52mm x 40mm so I guess their technical drawing is wrong.


----------



## doyll

upgraditus said:


> Yet another iteration of the Macho (rev.C) is silently released with a new high speed TY 147AQ fan, more convenient side mount fan clips, 4mm less in height and they've gone back to the smaller contact plate which could be good for Ryzen 3000.
> 
> Complete nonsense (Chinese?) product highlights: "In all the quality, insist on keeping the fanless design way to achieve the perfect way to improve all the performance. The patented technology allows you to enjoy the highest perfect cooling performance for the likes of the players."
> 
> Strangely on Thermalrights page the fan is white/black whereas here it's a new grey finish...
> 
> Edit: On closer inspection the base doesn't actually look any smaller than ~52mm x 40mm so I guess their technical drawing is wrong.


You have Macho Rev. C ? I have most all other Macho coolers .. actually have had / tested / used most all Thermalright coolers and found them all to be excellent performers in their respective size groups.


----------



## upgraditus

doyll said:


> You have Macho Rev. C ? I have most all other Macho coolers .. actually have had / tested / used most all Thermalright coolers and found them all to be excellent performers in their respective size groups.


No, I just saw it on alternate then found it on Thermalrights site.
It doesn't really make that much sense to me, a higher RPM fan without adding more fins / reducing pitch? Wouldn't be so bad if it was just higher max RPM but it's higher from the off (600-1500 Vs 300-1300). It's also more expensive than the Rev.B, ARO-M14G and TS140 Power so I wouldn't recommended it over those currently either.


----------



## doyll

upgraditus said:


> No, I just saw it on alternate then found it on Thermalrights site.
> It doesn't really make that much sense to me, a higher RPM fan without adding more fins / reducing pitch? Wouldn't be so bad if it was just higher max RPM but it's higher from the off (600-1500 Vs 300-1300). It's also more expensive than the Rev.B, ARO-M14G and TS140 Power so I wouldn't recommended it over those currently either.


The additional 200rpm is good for 2-3c lower temps, and the way most reviewers test and go on and on aobout the 2-3c without even mentioning the addional 200rpm and additional noise, Thermalright decided the little extra rpm, noise and cooling was worth it to get better press.


----------



## Heuchler

Thermalright Macho Rev.C now listed on the international site
http://thermalright.com/product/macho-rev-c/

- improve the high RAM compatibility with cooling performance also we boost the fan speed (with TY-147AQ)

Heatsink Dimension: L140 mm x W102 mm x H158 mm


Manual
http://thermalright.com/backup/2019manual/MachoRevC.pdf


Picture and drawing seem to be of the Rev.B still


----------



## Gilles3000

@doyll just wondering, is there still a performance benefit to the Archon IB-E X2? Or is it pretty much superseded by the TS 140 Power now?

The Archon IB-E X2 is shorter and has better pcie clearance. So if it also performed as well or better, it might be preferable, even if it does come with the older style fans.


----------



## Owterspace

Archon IB-E X2 and HR22 Plus are rated for 320w, whereas TS140P is 360w. I wanted one but they were no where to be found in this country.. at least not where I looked. I bought my last two Thermalrights straight from the States.


----------



## doyll

Gilles3000 said:


> @*doyll* just wondering, is there still a performance benefit to the Archon IB-E X2? Or is it pretty much superseded by the TS 140 Power now?
> 
> The Archon IB-E X2 is shorter and has better pcie clearance. So if it also performed as well or better, it might be preferable, even if it does come with the older style fans.


What Owterspace said. :thumb:
Although their thermal ratings are like most everything else computer related, not much to go on. 



Area of 6mm circle is 28.26sq mm while 8mm is 50.24sq mm.
Surface area is 18.84 mm while 8mm is 25.12mm.
8x 6mm heatpipe cooler has 226.08sq mm while 6x 8mm heatpipes have 301.44sq mm total crossectional area.
Both 8x 6mm and 6x 8mm heatpipe coolers have 150.72mm surface area​

While 6x 8mm heatpipes have same surface area as 8x 6mm heatpipes (150.72mm), 6x 8mm heatpipes have way more volume (301.44 vs 226.08sq mm). I think this allows improved vapor flow from cooler base toward ends of heatpipes, and thus better heat transfer.


----------



## adamra

Just finished a build with a True Spirit 140 Power combined with two Silver Stone FHP 141 fans, cooling a I5-9600k at 5.1ghz (1.295v). Got 4 Noctua A14 iPPC - 3000 as intake fans and no exhaust fan. @doyll I assume I would be better off sealing the top save from maybe a gap near the rear of the CPU cooler? possibly trying to seperate the CPU from the GPU and power supply as well?
I was also wondering if I should remove the CD drive covers and custom fitting a third front intake fan, and whether the grill at the back of the case would be better cut out?


----------



## koniu777

Found a roundup review of various $50 coolers on YouTube, tsp140 did very bad at 185w against lower tdp coolers.


----------



## doyll

koniu777 said:


> Found a roundup review of various $50 coolers on YouTube, tsp140 did very bad at 185w against lower tdp coolers.
> 
> https://youtu.be/2GSoaRsuke4


Just goes to show how bad You Tube reviews can be. Only video review I've ever watched was MNPCTech review of Phanteks Primo case review by Bill of Mnpctech and Jessie from The Mod.


----------



## Owterspace

I watched one of his reviews. It did not line up at all with other reviews on the internet. Just an attention seeker


----------



## Owterspace

adamra said:


> Just finished a build with a True Spirit 140 Power combined with two Silver Stone FHP 141 fans, cooling a I5-9600k at 5.1ghz (1.295v). Got 4 Noctua A14 iPPC - 3000 as intake fans and no exhaust fan. @doyll I assume I would be better off sealing the top save from maybe a gap near the rear of the CPU cooler? possibly trying to seperate the CPU from the GPU and power supply as well?
> I was also wondering if I should remove the CD drive covers and custom fitting a third front intake fan, and whether the grill at the back of the case would be better cut out?


Jeebus that case is huge. I've only been in my Meshify C for a few months, and I already forgot about all the space a big case has. I like your fans on the cooler. I like thick fans too, as I have a few in my case, but none on my cooler. They do feed my cooler well. As for your questions, do what you have to do to move air. The more the merrier..


----------



## doyll

Owterspace said:


> I watched one of his reviews. It did not line up at all with other reviews on the internet. Just an attention seeker


 Are not all reviewers, especially YouTubers' attention seekers? 
It always amazes me how reviewers get results not at all the norm, yet never seem to realize how far off the norm the results are .. either dumber than a stick or care nothing about their resutls resembling reality.


----------



## ciarlatano

doyll said:


> either dumber than a stick _*or*_ care nothing about their resutls resembling reality.


Why limit it with the "either/or"? That can be replaced with "and" in many cases.


----------



## doyll

ciarlatano said:


> Why limit it with the "either/or"? That can be replaced with "and" in many cases.



:cheers:
I can hear them saying "We\re dumber than sticks and proud of it."


----------



## D-EJ915

doyll said:


> Are not all reviewers, especially YouTubers' attention seekers?
> It always amazes me how reviewers get results not at all the norm, yet never seem to realize how far off the norm the results are .. either dumber than a stick or care nothing about their resutls resembling reality.


I feel like they should just bundle it with the high RPM fan anyway since the low RPM fan does it no justice.


----------



## doyll

D-EJ915 said:


> I feel like they should just bundle it with the high RPM fan anyway since the low RPM fan does it no justice.


 Does it no justice???? Cooling as good or better than any air cooler on market with included fan 300-1300rpm fan is doing it justice!  

Sure, usign TY-143 at 2500rpm improves temps significantly, but it also raises noise levels extremely. 

Also keep in mind using 2500rpm fan/s on cooler means we also need to use similar high speed case fans so they can supply the cool air needed to keep up with 2500rpm cooler fan/s.
We have members here like adamra who is cooling a I5-9600k at 5.1ghz (1.295v). Got 4 Noctua A14 iPPC 3000rpm as intake fans and no exhaust fans. He says temps idle between 29c - 32 (couple days ago was very hot day) and gaming on a fairly cpu intensive game took it to about 45-54c. He has 4x noctua 140 3000rpm intakes, 2x Silverstone FHP-141 (vs fan on TRUE Spirit 140 Power with no exhaust fans but opened back as much as possible. He posted pics a couple days ago. https://www.overclock.net/forum/28107734-post847.html
Now that's what I call extreme cooling! Wound be intersting to know what GPU he has and what it's temps are when gaming.


----------



## adamra

So I was wrong! My in - bios voltage was 1.315v and when I was testing fan speeds at max load to find out the temperature difference between certain RPMs, I found out i wasn't diligent enough and was actually unstable (not that I ever crashed in day to day use). So after a day of making sure I am stable, I finished with 5.1ghz 4.8ghz uncore at 1.33v. I tested solely with my fans maxing out at 50%_1100/1300rpms), averaging about 80c for 2 hours, my hottest core peaked at 85!
I then did a quick small fft (5 mins) with fans at 100% 2000/26000rpms) went straight to 82c being my hottest core, I think if i left it going for the same amount of time it may have creeped up a little? But even a 3 degree difference is a shock, I would have thought a 50% difference in RPM would have given me much better cooling - so that has been eye opening!


My GPU is only a GTX 1060 which is OC'd on a curve using MSI afterburners auto overclock feature, usually 2050mhz core clock during gaming and a 4600mhz memory clock. Temperature doesn't usually surpass 60c!


----------



## doyll

adamra said:


> So I was wrong! My in - bios voltage was 1.315v and when I was testing fan speeds at max load to find out the temperature difference between certain RPMs, I found out i wasn't diligent enough and was actually unstable (not that I ever crashed in day to day use). So after a day of making sure I am stable, I finished with 5.1ghz 4.8ghz uncore at 1.33v. I tested solely with my fans maxing out at 50%_1100/1300rpms), averaging about 80c for 2 hours, my hottest core peaked at 85!
> I then did a quick small fft (5 mins) with fans at 100% 2000/26000rpms) went straight to 82c being my hottest core, I think if i left it going for the same amount of time it may have creeped up a little? But even a 3 degree difference is a shock, I would have thought a 50% difference in RPM would have given me much better cooling - so that has been eye opening!
> 
> 
> My GPU is only a GTX 1060 which is OC'd on a curve using MSI afterburners auto overclock feature, usually 2050mhz core clock during gaming and a 4600mhz memory clock. Temperature doesn't usually surpass 60c!


I set fan curves so below 35-40c fans are @ about 5-700rpm, at 50-55c fans are at about 800-850rpm, at 60c fans are about 900rpm, at 65c fans are 1100rpm, at 70c fans are 1300rpm, at 75c fans are at 15-1600rpm, then speed them up to whatever is need to keep system below 80c. Set temp to rpm based on how many setting points your controller has.


----------



## Abula

doyll said:


> I set fan curves so below 35-40c fans are @ about 5-700rpm, at 50-55c fans are at about 800-850rpm, at 60c fans are about 900rpm, at 65c fans are 1100rpm, at 70c fans are 1300rpm, at 75c fans are at 15-1600rpm, then speed them up to whatever is need to keep system below 80c. Set temp to rpm based on how many setting points your controller has.


 I do it very similar to doyll, but varies from setup to setup, my 9900k spikes much higher than my delided 8700k, my initial breakpoint is 60C with 600rpms, this avoids having the fans produce a breathing effect soaking all the light load, then i climb up the curve with each break point with a steep climb with the last breakpoint as 85C 100%.


----------



## homestyle

I’m attaching this cooler to an asrock x570 taichi and 3700x

How does this perform with 3700x?

Is ram clearance an issue or is this thin enough not to cause comparability issues?


----------



## upgraditus

homestyle said:


> I’m attaching this cooler to an asrock x570 taichi and 3700x
> 
> How does this perform with 3700x?
> 
> Is ram clearance an issue or is this thin enough not to cause comparability issues?


Unsure how the power does but the standard is good so in theory you should fare even better. Low profile RAM like my Ballistix Sport LT fits under so no issues in any config, taller heatspreaders? = dual channel no issue, quad channel might foul slot A1.


----------



## doyll

homestyle said:


> I’m attaching this cooler to an asrock x570 taichi and 3700x
> 
> How does this perform with 3700x?
> 
> Is ram clearance an issue or is this thin enough not to cause comparability issues?


Center CPU to near side of RAM socket is about 52mm so it will be tight. Depends on how tall RAM is. Can always mount fan on back of cooler pulling air through. Make sure case has enough CPU clearance for it's 171mm height.


----------



## homestyle

What kind of improvement should I see going from stock wraith prism cooker on 3700x to this true cooler?


----------



## AlphaC

At least 10 degree drop based off older Ryzen result
https://www.computerbase.de/2019-08...emperatur-ueber-schalldruckpegel-standardtakt


----------



## homestyle

What fan does this come with? And what is the minimum fan speed? I bought off amazon and description says ty-147 which has 900 min rpm. But the thermalright website says this comes with ty-147a which has 300 min rpm. 

That is a large delta.


----------



## Abula

homestyle said:


> What fan does this come with? And what is the minimum fan speed? I bought off amazon and description says ty-147 which has 900 min rpm. But the thermalright website says this comes with ty-147a which has 300 min rpm.


 My TS140P came with TY147, but if newer batches come with TY147A which has 300rpm min.


----------



## doyll

Abula said:


> My TS140P came with TY147, but if newer batches come with TY147A which has 300rpm min.


It would be nice if they made a black/white 600-1500rpm like black/red TY-149A .. even better 600-1800rpm like black/red TY-143B that comes on Silver Arrow T8 but in black/white. Idling at 300rpm is kinda worthless to me because at 600rom it is so quiet you have your ear so close to the impeller it might get hit. to hear fan anyway.


----------



## upgraditus

doyll said:


> It would be nice if they made a black/white 600-1500rpm like black/red TY-149A .. even better 600-1800rpm like black/red TY-143B that comes on Silver Arrow T8 but in black/white. Idling at 300rpm is kinda worthless to me because at 600rom it is so quiet you have your ear so close to the impeller it might get hit. to hear fan anyway.


With a chain of 3 (Intake->HS->exhaust) I can certainly hear them from ~1m at 600, it's not loud obviously but not silent either. At 300 with the case panel on they are below room background noise level (very low at night), I find 300-1000 perfect for my needs.


----------



## doyll

upgraditus said:


> With a chain of 3 (Intake->HS->exhaust) I can certainly hear them from ~1m at 600, it's not loud obviously but not silent either. At 300 with the case panel on they are below room background noise level (very low at night), I find 300-1000 perfect for my needs.


What about your GPU fan/s, are they quieter or louder? What are your case fans? Do you mean you can hear them at 300rpm with ears less than a foot from case? I'm surprised you only have 3x fans in your system. Define XL supports 1x 120/140mm bottom (plus PSU), 2x front, 2x top and 1x back. With just 1x intake and exhaust your 1x in & 1x out are only moving about as much air as TS140BW uses .. and if stock case fans not that much.

Very quiet room at night is about 30dba, background level in empty recording studio is about 20dba.


----------



## upgraditus

doyll said:


> What about your GPU fan/s, are they quieter or louder? What are your case fans? Do you mean you can hear them at 300rpm with ears less than a foot from case? I'm surprised you only have 3x fans in your system. Define XL supports 1x 120/140mm bottom (plus PSU), 2x front, 2x top and 1x back. With just 1x intake and exhaust your 1x in & 1x out are only moving about as much air as TS140BW uses .. and if stock case fans not that much.
> 
> Very quiet room at night is about 30dba, background level in empty recording studio is about 20dba.


I'll list all so you can see what is going on, more than just 3 fans in total, case is inverted so CPU chain is furthest distance from ear at approx 1m (when I say chain I mean these fans are controlled from one PWM signal and powered direct from PSU).

CPU Chain = 3x TY-147A (intake->heatsink->exhaust) so ~4.8-6db(A) louder than 1 fan at any given RPM/loudness 

GPU Chain = 2x TY-147A (intakes, sanded square) 2x Arctic P12 (heatsink) 1x 140mm Silent Wings 3 (1K RPM model) (exhaust)

I have a calibrated mic for eq'ing subwoofers (http://cross-spectrum.com/measurement/calibrated_umik.html) but it's meant for high SPL's and the self noise is too high for these sort of levels, otherwise I'd do some measuring.


----------



## AlphaC

Saw this linked elsewhere , not sure how credible it is:
https://twitter.com/HardwareSci/status/1167128680562229248


95W heat load seems proper but 185W result is off


edit: test regime seems to be a Z390 series Maximus Hero board, Fractal design S2 case with 2 front intake and 1 exhaust, MSI Gaming X GPU of some sort.


----------



## ciarlatano

AlphaC said:


> Saw this linked elsewhere , not sure how credible it is:
> https://twitter.com/HardwareSci/status/1167128680562229248
> 
> 
> 95W heat load seems proper but 185W result is off
> 
> 
> edit: test regime seems to be a Z390 series Maximus Hero board, Fractal design S2 case with 2 front intake and 1 exhaust, MSI Gaming X GPU of some sort.


That guy is a complete clown show - https://www.overclock.net/forum/246...right-le-grand-macho-out-56.html#post28109080


----------



## doyll

ciarlatano said:


> That guy is a complete clown show - https://www.overclock.net/forum/246...right-le-grand-macho-out-56.html#post28109080


 Indeed! :thumb:
Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know 212 with 4x 6mm heatpipes w/120mm fan cannot cool betterh than TRUE Spirit 140 Power with 6x 8mm heatpipes 2/ 140mm fan.


----------



## Heuchler

anybody know where to get the official Hardware Scientist mittens.

Ease of installation [while wearing mittens] . Applying even mounting pressure [while wearing mittens]. Applying even TIM layer [while wearing mittens of course]. ambient temps ... yeah I got mittens so don't worry about room temps.














edit:

guess I'm the only one that doesn't have OCN HSF mittens


----------



## ernorator

Welcome home little one  One more to my collection. Now looking for Archon I-BE x2 and Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme Cu


----------



## eBombzor

Anyone put this into a Fractal R4 case? Max CPU clearance for this case is 170 and the cooler is 171 so I hope it fits lol.


----------



## Abula

eBombzor said:


> Anyone put this into a Fractal R4 case? Max CPU clearance for this case is 170 and the cooler is 171 so I hope it fits lol.


 The R4 can fit taller heatsinks, even if the manufacturer says 170, imo it can fit close to 190mm or more, when i installed the HR02 there was a lot of space left still.


----------



## doyll

eBombzor said:


> Anyone put this into a Fractal R4 case? Max CPU clearance for this case is 170 and the cooler is 171 so I hope it fits lol.


What Abula said. :thumb:, 

TRUE Spirit 140 Power fits nicely in Fractal R4, but I don't think there is 20mm clearance.


----------



## Owterspace

I have on in an R4, fits great. Definitely not 20mm left over.


----------



## poliacido

NEw owner here too 
I was thinking about how to place the cooler: if vertical or horizontal... because i have a 2700X and the die is placed "vertical" when looking at the mobo, so if i install the cooler in the vertical position the hotspot on the IHS is touching only the 2 inner heatpipes. I know it's not direct die with direct touch HPs and the IHS and the colplate dissipate and spread the heat to more surface.... but anyway did anyone tried if you set it horizontally so the HPs are placed in a "crossed" way with the die and more get in touch.


----------



## Owterspace

Give it a spin see what happens.. worst case you have to spin it back.


----------



## eBombzor

Thanks for the help! It fits with quite a large amount of space (just less than 2cm by my ruler).

One question: when screwing the metal plate onto the mounting bracket after placing the heatsink, are you supposed to close the gap between them? Here is what I'm talking about: 

There is quite a large gap and I didn't want to put too much pressure on the CPU so I left a small gap even though I could screw it in more.

Anyways I very much like the cooler. Was a little daunting to install at first because of all the pieces but it was pretty straightforward after reading the directions. Definitely easier than the 212 Evo. It's a little unfortunate that the 7nm bottlenecks the temps at times. I ran P95 torture and got up to 77 C at some point (it came back down pretty quickly) but I touched the heatsink and it wasn't even warm. But that's p95. I average around 50-65 C during CPU intensive games (after OC'ing IF to 1800) so I'm pretty happy with that


----------



## doyll

eBombzor said:


> Thanks for the help! It fits with quite a large amount of space (just less than 2cm by my ruler).
> 
> One question: when screwing the metal plate onto the mounting bracket after placing the heatsink, are you supposed to close the gap between them? Here is what I'm talking about:
> 
> There is quite a large gap and I didn't want to put too much pressure on the CPU so I left a small gap even though I could screw it in more.
> 
> Anyways I very much like the cooler. Was a little daunting to install at first because of all the pieces but it was pretty straightforward after reading the directions. Definitely easier than the 212 Evo. It's a little unfortunate that the 7nm bottlenecks the temps at times. I ran P95 torture and got up to 77 C at some point (it came back down pretty quickly) but I touched the heatsink and it wasn't even warm. But that's p95. I average around 50-65 C during CPU intensive games (after OC'ing IF to 1800) so I'm pretty happy with that


All screws are tighten. Screws holding backing plate on back of motherboard with spacers through botherboard into barrel nuts (screw nut in instructions), screws attaching anchor mount to screw nuts, and screws holding crossbar to attaching anchor mount are all tight. 

Heatpipe coolers never get hot, only warm up a little. The hottest place is inside heatpipes in base where liquid boils / expands into gas and moves away from base toward ends of heatpipes. As this vapor moves up into fins it starts cooling / contracting / condensing on the wicking material on inside of heatpipe where this liquid is cooled even more and moves back to cooler base where it starts the boiling / expanding cycle all over again. If the heatpipes and/or fins were to get hot anywhere but the base the heat transfer cycle would not work as it is designed to.


----------



## D-EJ915

From mounting and remounting mine like 20 times on my 2066 and 2011 sockets it doesn't make much of any difference to screw it in all the way vs leaving a gap as far as performance is concerned. As long as the screw threading is all the way through the plate you will be fine. If you whack it maybe screw may be more likely to break due to bending as well as lateral load but generally screws snap anywhere and everywhere lol. As long as temps are okay I wouldn't worry about it if you feel like you don't want to screw all the way in, it does get really tight lol.


----------



## doyll

D-EJ915 said:


> From mounting and remounting mine like 20 times on my 2066 and 2011 sockets it doesn't make much of any difference to screw it in all the way vs leaving a gap as far as performance is concerned. As long as the screw threading is all the way through the plate you will be fine. If you whack it maybe screw may be more likely to break due to bending as well as lateral load but generally screws snap anywhere and everywhere lol. As long as temps are okay I wouldn't worry about it if you feel like you don't want to screw all the way in, it does get really tight lol.


 Cooler mounts are designed for screws to be tightened up so there is no space between mounting components .. and that is the way I suggest everyone uses them. 

Mounting a cooler with the screws not drawing up all the slack between mounting components results in less base pressure onto CPU IHS, and this almost always results is warmer temperatures. 

If motherboard is in vertical orientation l(ike in tower cases) not tightening the screws all the way can result in cooler angling down with upper edge of seat not as tight as lower .. and this will definitely case higher temps.


----------



## Smanci

doyll said:


> Cooler mounts are designed for screws to be tightened up so there is no space between mounting components .. and that is the way I suggest everyone uses them.
> 
> Mounting a cooler with the screws not drawing up all the slack between mounting components results in less base pressure onto CPU IHS, and this almost always results is warmer temperatures.
> 
> If motherboard is in vertical orientation l(ike in tower cases) not tightening the screws all the way can result in cooler angling down with upper edge of seat not as tight as lower .. and this will definitely case higher temps.


Regardless of the mounting mechanism, coolers should be installed using the least amount of pressure possible to achieve proper contact and by avoiding overtightening. Borderline dangerous advice even if not installing on bare die.


----------



## Owterspace

I disagree.


----------



## AlphaC

The reason why Scythe's Fuma version 1 had better temps than other coolers of similar design was mounting pressure.


----------



## D-EJ915

These days with IHS we usually don't get broken dies from heatsink mounting pressure, that used to be extremely common when they switched from socket to flip chip.


----------



## Owterspace

I haven't busted a core since s462 with a Tbred 2600. I crunched that core a few times before it stopped posting.


----------



## doyll

Smanci said:


> Regardless of the mounting mechanism, coolers should be installed using the least amount of pressure possible to achieve proper contact and by avoiding overtightening. Borderline dangerous advice even if not installing on bare die.


 Seems both you and D-EJ915 believe you know more about how cooler mount should be installed and it's screws / nuts tightened than the company designing and making them.


----------



## eBombzor

Thanks for the input, I decided to tightened up the screws because I was afraid the cooler would slide down over time.


----------



## D-EJ915

doyll said:


> Seems both you and D-EJ915 believe you know more about how cooler mount should be installed and it's screws / nuts tightened than the company designing and making them.


I'm just posting what I experienced no need to get upset about it lol. Anyway, the only reason I even know this is their included screws started to strip after a few mounts from how hard it is to screw them in all the way so in order to not make them completely unusable I tried not doing it and there was no difference as far as cooling performance is concerned for my socket 2011-2066 chips. Like I said I would advise to do it but it is not the end of the world.


----------



## Owterspace

Something isn’t right. You shouldn’t be stripping screws while mounting, or encountering any kind of resistance. It’s should thread in nicely. No muscles needed. Are you sure you are using the right pieces for your socket? I’ve had my Thermalright coolers on and off probably 20 times since I got them nearly two years ago. Everything is still mint.


----------



## Gilles3000

2nd that, I'm onto my second thermalright cooler now and neither had high resistance on the screws. They tense up a little bit right nearing the end, but nothing even close to what could strip the screwheads.


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## doyll

3rd that.

Cooler mounts are designed for screws / nuts to be tightened so there is no free-play between components. I have mounted hundreds of coolers over the years and have encountered a few that the screws / huts didn't thread properly the first install because they had a poor job of tapping, but even those works fine after first installation. I've found the same kind of thread problems with case screws, motherboard mounting screws, etc. and again all worked fine after first in/out. 

Maybe you were over-tightening to the point you started stripping the thread thinking these small screws need more torque then they actually do. 'Tight' is only screwing them in untill the effort needed to turn them increases. If you increase the torque at that point it an and does strip threads or breake screws.


----------



## D-EJ915

I just screwed them in all the way to the base until they stop, they just don't seem like a quality part and so I was getting nervous about it. I'd rather not have to purchase new mounting hardware if I don't have to do so. What socket are you guys using? 1150 series and 1366 series were much much easier to mount using less torque to screw them all the way in than on 2011-2066 sockets which requires a lot more effort. Maybe I am just crazy and misremembering lol

Actually I looked this up, they increased IHS height quite a bit.

LGA115x IHS height from board: 7.710mm +- 0.335mm
LGA1366 IHS height from board: 7.729mm +- 0.282mm
LGA2011 IHS height from board: 8.014mm +- 0.340mm
LGA2011-3 IHS height from board: 8.410mm +- 0.279mm

LGA2011-3 and LGA2066 use same mounting mechanism.

So it makes sense it is hardest to mount on to 2011-3 and 2066 which is what I have been using it on, then mounting on 1366 most recently it was much easier lol.


References:
Page 24
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/w.../guides/4th-gen-core-lga1150-socket-guide.pdf
Page 27
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/w...top-processor-series-lga1366-socket-guide.pdf
Page 37
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/w...ents/design-guides/core-i7-lga-2011-guide.pdf
Page 39
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/guides/core-i7-lga2011-3-tmsdg.pdf

It is called stackup height.


----------



## doyll

D-EJ915 said:


> I just screwed them in all the way to the base until they stop, they just don't seem like a quality part and so I was getting nervous about it. I'd rather not have to purchase new mounting hardware if I don't have to do so. What socket are you guys using? 1150 series and 1366 series were much much easier to mount using less torque to screw them all the way in than on 2011-2066 sockets which requires a lot more effort. Maybe I am just crazy and misremembering lol
> 
> Actually I looked this up, they increased IHS height quite a bit.
> 
> LGA115x IHS height from board: 7.710mm +- 0.335mm
> LGA1366 IHS height from board: 7.729mm +- 0.282mm
> LGA2011 IHS height from board: 8.014mm +- 0.340mm
> LGA2011-3 IHS height from board: 8.410mm +- 0.279mm
> 
> LGA2011-3 and LGA2066 use same mounting mechanism.
> 
> So it makes sense it is hardest to mount on to 2011-3 and 2066 which is what I have been using it on, then mounting on 1366 most recently it was much easier lol.
> 
> References:
> Page 24
> https://www.intel.com/content/dam/w.../guides/4th-gen-core-lga1150-socket-guide.pdf
> Page 27
> https://www.intel.com/content/dam/w...top-processor-series-lga1366-socket-guide.pdf
> Page 37
> https://www.intel.com/content/dam/w...ents/design-guides/core-i7-lga-2011-guide.pdf
> Page 39
> https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/guides/core-i7-lga2011-3-tmsdg.pdf
> 
> It is called stackup height.


"I just screwed them in all the way to the base until they stop" is what I do too. :thumb:

2011 mounts are different than 115x & 1366 mounts so the the difference of all 3 does not 'stack up' as you call it. The difference in height between 115x & 1366 is only 0.019mm .. aluminum foil we use in our kitchens is 0.016mm thick. 

"Stack-up" is the +/- tolerance of each mount, not the combined total of different mounts. There is stack-up in the mounts, in motherboard thickness, in CPU socket, and IHS thickness effecting IHS height, so the total stack-up of each cooler mount combined with motherboard and CPU if all were at their maximum would be a lot, but in normal use that isn't an issue.

The +/- of each CPU height is less than the thickness of a credit card which is about 0.030inch.

There is also the flex in the mount itself to consider, and that is probably as much as stack-up


----------



## homestyle

How does this cooler compare to the AMD wraith prism led cooler for a 3700x at stock?

Would this be able to hit higher boost clocks?

How much quieter would it be?

I've got this TRUE Spirit power 140 on there now, but I'm thinking of selling it and slapping on the AMD cooler.


----------



## doyll

homestyle said:


> How does this cooler compare to the AMD wraith prism led cooler for a 3700x at stock?
> 
> Would this be able to hit higher boost clocks?
> 
> How much quieter would it be?
> 
> I've got this TRUE Spirit power 140 on there now, but I'm thinking of selling it and slapping on the AMD cooler.


 You could find out first hand by changing your TS140P to AMD Wraith Prism, but than you will be changing back to TS140P, because TS140P cools much, much better and is much, much quieter. 



Below link is to review of Wraith Prism. TRUE Spirit 140 Power is not in that review, but NH-U14S is and it's performance is similar to TS140P. NH-U14S is 15.4c cooler and 6.5dBA quieter at 4' with fans at 60% .. and at full speed I suspect the noise difference would be even greater in favor of TS140P. When they tested with both CPU & GPU under stress load Wraith Prism overheated at 111c and NH-U14S was 85.5c.
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/05/15/amd_wraith_prism_cpu_air_cooler_review/3


----------



## XtrathiccFan

The new TS140P (sort of) comfirmed.

The official Thermalright PR basically says, the compatibility of True Sprite 140 Power (TS140P) is not good enough. 

Therefore, TS140P is still in development.


----------



## Owterspace

XtrathiccFan said:


> The new TS140P (sort of) comfirmed.
> 
> The official Thermalright PR basically says, the compatibility of True Sprite 140 Power (TS140P) is not good enough.
> 
> Therefore, TS140P is still in development.


Translation please.

Edit:

Scratch that.

I wonder if it will be better suited for AM4


----------



## doyll

XtrathiccFan said:


> The new TS140P (sort of) comfirmed.
> 
> The official Thermalright PR basically says, the compatibility of True Sprite 140 Power (TS140P) is not good enough.
> 
> Therefore, TS140P is still in development.


Tell me what motherboard, RAM and case you plan to use and I will tell you if it will fit. Most AM4 mobos have plenty of room for fins toward PCIe sockets but some have CPU to RAM issues if tall RAM is being used and fan needs to be fit on back of cooler instead of front.


----------



## poliacido

ok after 1 month i finally managed to get some time to install the TS
so far i am not so impressed: i still have problems of overheating like i had with the previous DRP4 in my topic here:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/246-air-cooling/1733340-problem-dark-rock-pro-4-over-100a.html

the temps are still a bit better though... i don't have so many restarts for the overtemp like the DRP4, but still i get around 90/94°c with prime95 , fan full 100% and open case
I think the problem at this point is the CPU IHS, tried 2 different air coolers and got problems but no issue at all with the AIO where i get around 75°c 

Today i tried to reinstall it 2 times but same results, also seems the mounting pressure is not so tight but could be just my impression
The cooler gets warm during the tests, but not really hot


----------



## clannagh

poliacido said:


> ok after 1 month i finally managed to get some time to install the TS
> so far i am not so impressed: i still have problems of overheating like i had with the previous DRP4 in my topic here:
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/246-air-cooling/1733340-problem-dark-rock-pro-4-over-100a.html
> 
> the temps are still a bit better though... i don't have so many restarts for the overtemp like the DRP4, but still i get around 90/94°c with prime95 , fan full 100% and open case
> I think the problem at this point is the CPU IHS, tried 2 different air coolers and got problems but no issue at all with the AIO where i get around 75°c
> 
> Today i tried to reinstall it 2 times but same results, also seems the mounting pressure is not so tight but could be just my impression
> The cooler gets warm during the tests, but not really hot



This might be relevant:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermal-paste-heat-sink-heat-spreader,3600-3.html

AIOs I believe tend to be flat. No idea about the TS140.


----------



## doyll

poliacido said:


> ok after 1 month i finally managed to get some time to install the TS
> so far i am not so impressed: i still have problems of overheating like i had with the previous DRP4 in my topic here:
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/246-air-cooling/1733340-problem-dark-rock-pro-4-over-100a.html
> 
> the temps are still a bit better though... i don't have so many restarts for the overtemp like the DRP4, but still i get around 90/94°c with prime95 , fan full 100% and open case
> I think the problem at this point is the CPU IHS, tried 2 different air coolers and got problems but no issue at all with the AIO where i get around 75°c
> 
> Today i tried to reinstall it 2 times but same results, also seems the mounting pressure is not so tight but could be just my impression
> The cooler gets warm during the tests, but not really hot


How much TIM are you using? We don't want a layer of time between IHS and cooler base. We want metal to metal contact with TIM filling microscopic voids between surfaces. The heat transfer abiltiy of copper is about 400W/mK, Aluminum is 205W/[email protected], TIM is 3-30W/mK while air is only 0.024W/mK. So while TIM is way better than nothing (air) it is not near as good as metal to metal with TIM only filling voids between surfaces. 
Below link has more details and test results pertinent to TIM application and cooler seating / mounting.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/22335323-post10.html


clannagh said:


> AIOs I believe tend to be flat. No idea about the TS140.


My be quiet! Silent Loop has slightly convex base as does my TS140P. Think hermalright was first to use convex bases on coolers.


----------



## D-EJ915

The heatsink will evacuate all of the excess thermal paste due to mounting pressure, low mounting pressure heatsinks from the 90s and 00s aren't really a thing anymore (as well as bare die) in my experience and thermalright ones are definitely high mounting pressure designs. Use enough to cover IHS and you will be fine. If you have a HUGE surface it matters more but with desktop chip (115x, am*) it makes barely any difference.

Try sticking a faster fan and see if it helps. Coolers like this one and D15, etc. are great but not designed for constant extreme heat loads like P95 or AVX workloads with overclocks. I switched out my stock TS140P fan for the TY 2500 RPM one and it helped a lot for doing OC validation when I was testing my 9900X.


----------



## doyll

XtrathiccFan said:


> The new TS140P (sort of) comfirmed.
> 
> The official Thermalright PR basically says, the compatibility of True Sprite 140 Power (TS140P) is not good enough.
> 
> Therefore, TS140P is still in development.


Could you give us link to where Thermalright says that in English please? I ask because I have never seen anything saying that.




D-EJ915 said:


> The heatsink will evacuate all of the excess thermal paste due to mounting pressure, low mounting pressure heatsinks from the 90s and 00s aren't really a thing anymore (as well as bare die) in my experience and thermalright ones are definitely high mounting pressure designs. Use enough to cover IHS and you will be fine. If you have a HUGE surface it matters more but with desktop chip (115x, am*) it makes barely any difference.
> 
> Try sticking a faster fan and see if it helps. Coolers like this one and D15, etc. are great but not designed for constant extreme heat loads like P95 or AVX workloads with overclocks. I switched out my stock TS140P fan for the TY 2500 RPM one and it helped a lot for doing OC validation when I was testing my 9900X.


Cooler mounting pressure has been the same for long long time. It hasn't changed in donkey's years. 



How viscous TIM is determines how well it will spread .. as does amount used. Too much clay like TIM will not push out under normal mounting pressure. 

Only area of IHS that needs TIM is area over CPU chip, not entire top of IHS. IHS is not a heat spreader at all, but a load support to limit pressure on CPU over it's socket area so CPU PCB is not flexed down and damaging CPU socket.
Using TY-143 2500rpm fan instead of TY-147A 1300rpm on cooler will lower temps 7-9c if case airflow is increased as well. But putting higher speed fan only on cooler and not changing case fans to similar hi-performance fans means CPU cooler will be re-using it's own heated air becuase case fans are not supplying as much cool air as CPU cooler fan is using. This means higher temp air into cooler and temp of CPU under heavy load changes 1c for every 1c air temp change, so if air into cooler is 8c higher CPU temp will be too. This is why I ask what air temp is into cooler vs air temp of room.  Link below is to basic guide to case airflow and how to optimize it.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/22319249-post5.html


----------



## deepor

doyll said:


> Could you give us link to where Thermalright says that in English please? I ask because I have never seen anything saying that. [...]



You can try to use the camera feature of Google Translate on a phone, and can try to point it onto that screenshot. You can kind of read the post.

This new cooler is much shorter. That's what's meant with "compatibility is not good enough", you should read it as "this alternative model fits into PC cases where the TS140 Power didn't fit".


----------



## doyll

deepor said:


> You can try to use the camera feature of Google Translate on a phone, and can try to point it onto that screenshot. You can kind of read the post.
> 
> This new cooler is much shorter. That's what's meant with "compatibility is not good enough", you should read it as "this alternative model fits into PC cases where the TS140 Power didn't fit".


 So it's not TRUE Spirit 140 Power but another TRUE Spirit cooler. Does it have 140mm or 120mm fan? How many and what size are heatpipes? 

Thermalright international and Germany websites list 6 TRUE Spirit 120 and 140 coolers, Thermalright China lists 9. But there is only one TRUE Spirit 140 Power, the only Thermalright cooler with 8mm heatpipes that I know of.


----------



## deepor

doyll said:


> So it's not TRUE Spirit 140 Power but another TRUE Spirit cooler. Does it have 140mm or 120mm fan? How many and what size are heatpipes?
> 
> Thermalright international and Germany websites list 6 TRUE Spirit 120 and 140 coolers, Thermalright China lists 9. But there is only one TRUE Spirit 140 Power, the only Thermalright cooler with 8mm heatpipes that I know of.


Google's Translate app says something like this for me:

* "TA140" is an upgraded version of "TS140D"
* the new height is 159 [mm]
* faster fan
* fan bracket is better
* better thermal paste
* something about the copper base is different
* six years warranty

About the TS140P the post says something about it being great performance, but compatibility is bad. I can't really tell what Google Translate wants to say at the end: I think it says the TS140P will stay like it is, meaning the TA140 is not really related to the TS140P.

Now about what the "TS140D" is, I guess that's the "True Spirit 140 Direct". That's the cheap TS140 model that has exposed heat-pipes as a base, and doesn't have a copper base. Maybe this new TA140 will now have a copper base? Google Translate was failing a bit in the area of the sentence where the talk was about the base.


----------



## doyll

deepor said:


> Google's Translate app says something like this for me:
> 
> * "TA140" is an upgraded version of "TS140D"
> * the new height is 159 [mm]
> * faster fan
> * fan bracket is better
> * better thermal paste
> * something about the copper base is different
> * six years warranty
> 
> About the TS140P the post says something about it being great performance, but compatibility is bad. I can't really tell what Google Translate wants to say at the end: I think it says the TS140P will stay like it is, meaning the TA140 is not really related to the TS140P.
> 
> Now about what the "TS140D" is, I guess that's the "True Spirit 140 Direct". That's the cheap TS140 model that has exposed heat-pipes as a base, and doesn't have a copper base. Maybe this new TA140 will now have a copper base? Google Translate was failing a bit in the area of the sentence where the talk was about the base.


TA140 is L140mm x W42mm x H159mm, weight 610g, 5x 6mm heatpipes with 45 fins 42x140mm, 40x40mm C1100 pure copper nickel plated base and rated 200w TDP.
TRUE Spirit 140 Power is L155mm x W53.4mm x H171.2mm, weight 725g, 6x 8mm heatpipes with 45 fins , 40x53mm C1100 pure copper nickel plated base and rated 360w TDP.


----------



## XtrathiccFan

doyll said:


> Could you give us link to where Thermalright says that in English please? I ask because I have never seen anything saying that.


Unfortunately there is none, most latest thermalright news are from this official Chinese PR account (because the thermalright HQ has been moved to China)

And yes, TS140P in the article is indeed True Spirit 140 Power.

TS140P 规格很高 但是 兼容太差 再改版 还没改好 means : The spec (in this case, performance) of TS140P is very high but the compatibility is too bad (171mm height),the revision is still in development , it is not ready to be released yet.

As for first paragraph of the original thermalright's comment, it just explains the difference between TA140 and TS140D, it has nothing to do with TS140P.

It is not on their website because it is not ready yet.

Here is the full translation :
"
How is TA140?
and
How is it compared to TS140P? "

TA140 is upgraded version of TS140D : 159mm height, higher fan max rpm, upgraded fan clips, mounting hardware, TIM, mirror finished copper base plate, and 6-year warranty. The spec of TS140P is very high but the compatibility is too bad, so the revision is still in development , it is not ready to be released yet.

edit:typo


----------



## doyll

XtrathiccFan said:


> Unfortunately there is none, most latest thermalright news are from this official Chinese PR account (because the thermalright HQ has been moved to China)
> 
> And yes, TS140P in the article is indeed True Spirit 140 Power.
> 
> TS140P 规格很高 但是 兼容太差 再改版 还没改好 means : The spec (in this case, performance) of TS140P is very high but the compatibility is too bad (171mm height),the revision is still in development , it is not ready to be released yet.
> 
> As for first paragraph of the original thermalright's comment, it just explains the difference between TA140 and TA140D, it has nothing to do with TS140P.
> 
> It is not on their website because it is not ready yet.
> 
> Here is the full translation :
> "
> How is TA140?
> and
> How is it compared to TS140P? "
> 
> TA140 is upgraded version of TS140D : 159mm height, higher fan max rpm, upgraded fan clips, mounting hardware, TIM, mirror finished copper base plate, and 6-year warranty. The spec of TS140P is very high but the compatibility is too bad, so the revision is still in development , it is not ready to be released yet.


 Thank you. :thumb:
Is it TA140D or TS140D? 风灵 140 Direct is TS 140 Direct.
TA140 and TS140D both have 5x 6mm heatpipes and use different number of same size fins with black top fin and differnt bases.
TA140 has heatpipes in 40x40mm copper base standing 159mm tall.
TA140D has direct contact heatpipes in 39.7x40mm aluminum base standing 161.48mm tall. 

I prefer TA140 with solid copper base over TS140D direct contact base. I've used both coolers and cooling seems about the same at same fan speed.


----------



## XtrathiccFan

doyll said:


> Thank you. :thumb:
> Is it TA140D or TS140D? 风灵 140 Direct is TS 140 Direct.
> TA140 and TS140D both have 5x 6mm heatpipes and use different number of same size fins with black top fin and differnt bases.
> TA140 has heatpipes in 40x40mm copper base standing 159mm tall.
> TA140D has direct contact heatpipes in 39.7x40mm aluminum base standing 161.48mm tall.
> 
> I prefer TA140 with solid copper base over TS140D direct contact base. I've used both coolers and cooling seems about the same at same fan speed.


oops, I meant TS140D.


----------



## doyll

XtrathiccFan said:


> oops, I meant TS140D.


No problem. There was also TRUE Spirit 140 BW Rev. A with offset base, but I don't think it's still available.


----------



## Abula

In my mind the Archon seems like TS140Power with offset and 5mm lower no?


----------



## Owterspace

Abula said:


> In my mind the Archon seems like TS140Power with offset and 5mm lower no?


No,TS140P has 6x 8mm pipes, archon has 8x 6mm pipes.


----------



## pepega

hello guys
can you tell me how much space the thermalright am4 backplate needs?
between a flat metal sheet and the motherboard i have 3mm standoffs
is that enough?


----------



## doyll

pepega said:


> hello guys
> can you tell me how much space the thermalright am4 backplate needs?
> between a flat metal sheet and the motherboard i have 3mm standoffs
> is that enough?


What case do you have? I ask because most cases now have an opening in motherboard mounting panel in back of CPU so coolers can be mounted with motherboard installed. This opening is big enough to clear backing plate.


----------



## pepega

doyll said:


> What case do you have? I ask because most cases now have an opening in motherboard mounting panel in back of CPU so coolers can be mounted with motherboard installed. This opening is big enough to clear backing plate.


not mine, it's an ancient steel case
it only has srcew holes in the motherboard area


----------



## Echoa

Looking at grabbing the TS140 power and combining it with a Noctua a14 IPPC 3000. My Cryorig H5 has served well for several years previously on my 4770k but I feel its not keeping up with how I'm wanting my Temps. Hoping TS140 might keep my R5 3600 under 70c.

The H5 can keep the 3600 at for most work but I've found hitting the CPU hard with something like prime can quickly put it at 85c so I'm trying to hopefully improve that. Thought I was gonna be good till I started attempting higher clocks with PBO and Manual OCing. Still much better than stock cooler but less than I want.


----------



## doyll

Echoa said:


> Looking at grabbing the TS140 power and combining it with a Noctua a14 IPPC 3000. My Cryorig H5 has served well for several years previously on my 4770k but I feel its not keeping up with how I'm wanting my Temps. Hoping TS140 might keep my R5 3600 under 70c.
> 
> The H5 can keep the 3600 at for most work but I've found hitting the CPU hard with something like prime can quickly put it at 85c so I'm trying to hopefully improve that. Thought I was gonna be good till I started attempting higher clocks with PBO and Manual OCing. Still much better than stock cooler but less than I want.


My guess is stock fan will give you good temps. If you want higher perfromance/speed fan then TY-143 is a simple swap. Changing to NF-A14 is not because it uses mounting holes spaced 124.5mm (like 140mm square fans) and TY-147 & TY-143 have 105mm hole spacing like 120mm square fans).


----------



## Echoa

doyll said:


> My guess is stock fan will give you good temps. If you want higher perfromance/speed fan then TY-143 is a simple swap. Changing to NF-A14 is not because it uses mounting holes spaced 124.5mm (like 140mm square fans) and TY-147 & TY-143 have 105mm hole spacing like 120mm square fans).


Well I already have the Noctua so I figured I'd give it a go on there, thanks for the heads up on the fan mount though. Worst case I use the stock one on the heatsink and Noctua somewhere else.

Edit: just had a thought, maybe I could make the cryorig fan clips work on the TS140, I know the Cryorig clips work.


----------



## Owterspace

Use a few zip ties if all else fails. They come in different colors too so you can match em to your RGB to avoid looking too ghetto.


----------



## Echoa

Owterspace said:


> Use a few zip ties if all else fails. They come in different colors too so you can match em to your RGB to avoid looking too ghetto.


i have no RGB and no Glass side panel so i have no looks to worry about lol


----------



## Owterspace

I should have thrown an lol in there because I was laughing when I hit send.


----------



## clannagh

You could always glue the fan on with one of those high temp resistant epoxies  Might kind of suck if you change your mind though as you will be kind of stuck with it.


----------



## Owterspace

I’ve used other things in the past like garbage bag ties, and elastics.. I may have used string once or twice. Sticky tack works ok too for certain things. I’ve dabbled with ghetto a bit. I still partake in it now and then.

LePage makes a crazy good bonding agent that you can get at Home Depot.


----------



## Echoa

Purchased my TS140 on Saturday, still waiting for "Nans Gaming Gear" to ship it. Kinda wish I bought it off eBay instead of newegg marketplace as it wouldve been here by now lol


----------



## doyll

Echoa said:


> Purchased my TS140 on Saturday, still waiting for "Nans Gaming Gear" to ship it. Kinda wish I bought it off eBay instead of newegg marketplace as it wouldve been here by now lol


I prefer buying on Amazon.


----------



## Echoa

doyll said:


> I prefer buying on Amazon.


I have serious issues with Amazon from past experience among other things. I got in context with the Nans so hopefully it wont be too long


----------



## Owterspace

I got mine from Amazon. I paid a few extra bucks and it came from either their Dallas or Florida warehouse to my door in Winnipeg Canada in 22 hours. Maybe 23, pretty sure it was 22. Fan effing tastic.


----------



## lightsout

These seem pretty popular, at least this thread is. I assume my Macho Rev B would give similar results. I have been happy with it so far, even though it is pretty "macho", gave me trouble with some RGB ram. Pushes my Flares a tiny bit but it seems to be fine.


----------



## Owterspace

lightsout said:


> These seem pretty popular, at least this thread is. I assume my Macho Rev B would give similar results. I have been happy with it so far, even though it is pretty "macho", gave me trouble with some RGB ram. Pushes my Flares a tiny bit but it seems to be fine.


Macho Rev B is a light weight in comparison  I think that is a 240w cooler, Le Grand Macho RT is a 320w cooler, and TS140P is a 360w cooler. Both of those coolers don't interfere with my ram at all. But I am still using X58 and Z77. Actually, if I try to populate all 6 dims on my Rampage III Formula there is some interference at the dimm closest to TS140P, which I normally don't use. My X58 hates to run mixed sets, and gets quite finicky. TS140P on my Z77 left me with more than enough clearance for all dimms.


----------



## lightsout

Owterspace said:


> Macho Rev B is a light weight in comparison  I think that is a 240w cooler, Le Grand Macho RT is a 320w cooler, and TS140P is a 360w cooler. Both of those coolers don't interfere with my ram at all. But I am still using X58 and Z77. Actually, if I try to populate all 6 dims on my Rampage III Formula there is some interference at the dimm closest to TS140P, which I normally don't use. My X58 hates to run mixed sets, and gets quite finicky. TS140P on my Z77 left me with more than enough clearance for all dimms.




Wow 120w cooling advantage. That has me curious, wonder what that translates to a chip not putting out that kind of wattage. 2600x here.


----------



## doyll

lightsout said:


> Wow 120w cooling advantage. That has me curious, wonder what that translates to a chip not putting out that kind of wattage. 2600x here.


Translates to a very quiet system .. assuming case has good airflow. Having surplus TDP means lower fan speeds are needed to keep everything cool.


----------



## Owterspace

I did try my LGMRT is passive mode once. Had the system on a bench, and my cpu at a solid 4ghz and it ran just fine. I didn’t run any stress tests but I did game on it and used it for a few hours. I have not tried with TS140P though. LGMRT can do fanless up to 90w iirc. TS140P has a 40w advantage over LGMRT.


----------



## ltpdttcdft

XtrathiccFan said:


> the thermalright HQ has been moved to China


When was this move? Any sources/announcements?


----------



## JackCY

Problem is TS140P is too tall for quite a few cases and hard to find to buy.

The cooler power ratings are fairly pointless, look at reviews instead.


----------



## doyll

> Originally Posted by XtrathiccFan View Post
> the thermalright HQ has been moved to China





ltpdttcdft said:


> When was this move? Any sources/announcements?


I wondered about that statement myself. While Thermalright has 3 websites (www.thermalright.de, www.thermalright.com & www.thermalright-china.com) I have seen nothing anywhere about them moving their main offices from Taiwan to China.


----------



## D-EJ915

Owterspace said:


> I did try my LGMRT is passive mode once. Had the system on a bench, and my cpu at a solid 4ghz and it ran just fine. I didn’t run any stress tests but I did game on it and used it for a few hours. I have not tried with TS140P though. LGMRT can do fanless up to 90w iirc. TS140P has a 40w advantage over LGMRT.


True Spirit won't do as well passively since its fin spacing is much tighter.


----------



## Owterspace

That’s what I assumed as well. I did run my x5690 @ stock for about 20 minutes with no fan, forgot to plug it in.. but @ stock clocks it was fine, just a few c warmer than normal. But it wasn’t really doing much. And I still have some cheapo case fans swirling some cobwebs around.


----------



## lightsout

doyll said:


> Translates to a very quiet system .. assuming case has good airflow. Having surplus TDP means lower fan speeds are needed to keep everything cool.




Temps and noise are great already so I should just hold tight. Running things in a Core V21.


----------



## Echoa

Finally got my TS140 Power and I really like the mounting system. Feels very secure and is easy to mount. The fan on the other hand was a nightmare. Took me 30 min to get the stock fan for it mounted. 

I did check the Noctua fan and I have enough room to drill some mounting holes in the frame for using the TS Clips for mounting so when I'm off work next I'll get the Noctua mounted in.


----------



## Echoa

So far even with Just the stock fan I'm very impressed with the TS140. Its able to handle a full tilt prime load on my 3600 @ 1.3v. 

My old Cryorig H5 would keep me at 70c under normal loads but hammering it with prime Small FFT would reach as high as 93c under torture test with my Noctua at 2000+ RPM. The TS140 is able to bring that temp under control with 85c at only 1300rpm. The everyday temps aren't very different but the TS140 runs the same temps at lower fan RPM, 40g lower weight, and a much more solid mount system.


----------



## Owterspace

Nice, thanks for posting results.


----------



## doyll

Echoa said:


> Finally got my TS140 Power and I really like the mounting system. Feels very secure and is easy to mount. The fan on the other hand was a nightmare. Took me 30 min to get the stock fan for it mounted.
> 
> I did check the Noctua fan and I have enough room to drill some mounting holes in the frame for using the TS Clips for mounting so when I'm off work next I'll get the Noctua mounted in.


Yeah, the fan clips are somewhat challenging. For future reference, I suggest mounting fan on cooler a couple of times before installing cooler. I clip one side and hold fan toward other side of cooler while clipping other side. Newer model Thermalright coolers have much improved fan clips. 




Echoa said:


> So far even with Just the stock fan I'm very impressed with the TS140. Its able to handle a full tilt prime load on my 3600 @ 1.3v.
> 
> My old Cryorig H5 would keep me at 70c under normal loads but hammering it with prime Small FFT would reach as high as 93c under torture test with my Noctua at 2000+ RPM. The TS140 is able to bring that temp under control with 85c at only 1300rpm. The everyday temps aren't very different but the TS140 runs the same temps at lower fan RPM, 40g lower weight, and a much more solid mount system.


Sounds like times are good. Assuming this is R5 case, have you replaced the stock garbage fans with better ones? The stock fans have such low pressure rating that they move almost no air even at full speed through grill and filter restriction. Also I've found removing all PCIe back slot covers increases rear vent area around GPU and improves front to back airflow lowering both GPU and CPU temps. I didn't realize H5 was heavier cooler, but I'm not surprised.


----------



## Echoa

doyll said:


> Yeah, the fan clips are somewhat challenging. For future reference, I suggest mounting fan on cooler a couple of times before installing cooler. I clip one side and hold fan toward other side of cooler while clipping other side. Newer model Thermalright coolers have much improved fan clips.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like times are good. Assuming this is R5 case, have you replaced the stock garbage fans with better ones? The stock fans have such low pressure rating that they move almost no air even at full speed through grill and filter restriction. Also I've found removing all PCIe back slot covers increases rear vent area around GPU and improves front to back airflow lowering both GPU and CPU temps. I didn't realize H5 was heavier cooler, but I'm not surprised.


Done all these things, looking at probably adding some air ducts too


----------



## doyll

Echoa said:


> Done all these things, looking at probably adding some air ducts too


What is air temp into case vs into cooler with both CPU and GPU at full load?


----------



## Echoa

doyll said:


> What is air temp into case vs into cooler with both CPU and GPU at full load?


I'm not completely sure, The room temp is between 65-70f but I don't have any measurements for anything else.


----------



## doyll

Echoa said:


> I'm not completely sure, The room temp is between 65-70f but I don't have any measurements for anything else.


 Below is link to how airflow works and how to optimize case airflow. Last bit is what I use to monitor case airflow into coolers.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/22319249-post5.html


----------



## tike Myson

I was really interested in this cooler since its 14" and seems quiet, but it seems to be really bad in high OC situations according to this youtube review, any comments?









Or should I get eSports 34? I am running an 3570k @ 4.3g with 1.2v and am sick of noisy single slot water cooling. I want some silent pc until my next upgrade.


thanks


----------



## doyll

tike Myson said:


> I was really interested in this cooler since its 14" and seems quiet, but it seems to be really bad in high OC situations according to this youtube review, any comments?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GSoaRsuke4
> 
> Or should I get eSports 34? I am running an 3570k @ 4.3g with 1.2v and am sick of noisy single slot water cooling. I want some silent pc until my next upgrade.
> 
> thanks


 I tried to find his test procedure but it appears he doesn't give it. Therefore assume video testing procedure is flawed. It does show testing is done in a case but I see nothing about how air temp is monitored during testing. Lots of time talking about a lots of things but nothing at all about how case airflow is setup or how testing is performed. Case appears to be a stock Define case and they have case fans that can't overcome the resistance of front grill and filter so case airflow is extremely low. Testing without air temp into cooler being logged at same time as CPU temp is taken have no base for accuracy because air temp changes as fan speeds change .. and every degree change in air temp is reflected with almost exactly the same change in CPU temp at same cooler fan speeds. Also not mentioned is TRUE Spirit 140 Power is rated for 360w TDP, almost twice what he claims test is. I've ran TRUE Spirit 140 Power on I7 920 @ 3.8GHz for years and we tested at 4.3GHz against NH-D14 which cools same as NH-D15 and it was consistanly cooler as you can see in below graph in post #22 this thread: 

https://www.overclock.net/forum/22111036-post22.html


What you get is up to you. But whatever you get I suggest you take the time to read "How Airflow Works and How to Optimize Case Airflow" in link below:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/22319249-post5.html
Because if case airflow is not setup so cooler is using cool air (not air 10-20c warmer than room) your CPU temps will be 10-20c hotter than they should. Doesn't matter how good or how bad the cooler is if case airflow isn't setup properly.


----------



## D-EJ915

tike Myson said:


> I was really interested in this cooler since its 14" and seems quiet, but it seems to be really bad in high OC situations according to this youtube review, any comments?
> 
> Or should I get eSports 34? I am running an 3570k @ 4.3g with 1.2v and am sick of noisy single slot water cooling. I want some silent pc until my next upgrade.
> 
> 
> thanks


What cooler are you using now? TS 140 Power and Scythe Fuma 2 are probably best price/performance coolers right now at 50 and 60 dollars. I have both and Noctua D15 Chromax and they are all really good.

That review doesn't show fan speeds only db rating so no idea what speeds they are actually running fans at so it is hard to compare.


----------



## tike Myson

D-EJ915 said:


> What cooler are you using now? TS 140 Power and Scythe Fuma 2 are probably best price/performance coolers right now at 50 and 60 dollars. I have both and Noctua D15 Chromax and they are all really good.
> 
> That review doesn't show fan speeds only db rating so no idea what speeds they are actually running fans at so it is hard to compare.



I am currently running on CoolerMaster 120 AIO water setup , when idle, it's quiet, but its pretty annoying during load. (load temps around 70c)





Yeah, I found his reviews a bit fishy and I even found his earlier "rants" on previous posts here so I will take the results with grain of salt.


But its really hard to find any overall reviews of True Spirit , just some russian reviews but not comparing with others.




Thanks guys, I'll read more previous posts as my answers were probably answered somewhere before.:specool:


----------



## doyll

Even without fan speeds that review's data is totally out of line. TRUE Spirit 140 Power perform similar to NH-D15. Well actually it performs slightly better than NH-D14 when we tested it with TY-143 fan/s at 1200rpm and 2500rpm, and ehume's comparison testing of NH-D14 against NH-D15 with same fans found D14 to similar to slightly better than D15. No idea what the problem is but there is something seriously wrong .. and any decent reviewer would have at the very least acknowledged something was wrong with results, be it a defective cooler, bad TIM seat, etc.
There are several reviews posted in this thread. If you skip through you will find them and links to view them.


----------



## lightsout

How is the ram clearance on this cooler? I am using AM4 on a b450 ITX Strix board. I have the Macho Rev B and always have ram issues. Even low profile vengence won't fit I had to mod the fan.

I have some Gskill tridentz that I can't use. Does the fan cover the ram or can you use whatever?


----------



## deepor

lightsout said:


> How is the ram clearance on this cooler? I am using AM4 on a b450 ITX Strix board. I have the Macho Rev B and always have ram issues. Even low profile vengence won't fit I had to mod the fan.
> 
> I have some Gskill tridentz that I can't use. Does the fan cover the ram or can you use whatever?



According to the drawings I could find on thermalright.de, this TS140-Power here should have the exact same problem as what you have on your Macho-Rev-B. The drawings I looked at showed that on both coolers the base is 53 mm long. The front of the fin-stack then starts at the edge of that 53mm base on both coolers.


----------



## lightsout

deepor said:


> According to the drawings I could find on thermalright.de, this TS140-Power here should have the exact same problem as what you have on your Macho-Rev-B. The drawings I looked at showed that on both coolers the base is 53 mm long. The front of the fin-stack then starts at the edge of that 53mm base on both coolers.


So what do people do with air coolers and ram these days? I guess I could put it in pull config, but these fans are pretty low speed. Seems like a pain of a problem.


----------



## doyll

If Macho Rev.B blocks RAM so will most all other coolers. Macho Rev.C finpack is farther back.


----------



## lightsout

doyll said:


> If Macho Rev.B blocks RAM so will most all other coolers. Macho Rev.C finpack is farther back.




What do you think about reversing the fan on this cooler in the OP?


----------



## doyll

lightsout said:


> What do you think about reversing the fan on this cooler in the OP?


Not sure what you are asking but if you mean can fan be mounted on back of cooler pulling air out instead of on front pushing air in, then yes its will work fine.


----------



## lightsout

doyll said:


> Not sure what you are asking but if you mean can fan be mounted on back of cooler pulling air out instead of on front pushing air in, then yes its will work fine.


Yeah talking about putting the fan at the rear in a pull config. Should eliminate any ram issues. I can't do it with my current cooler as its too fat and there is no room for a rear fan.


----------



## deepor

lightsout said:


> So what do people do with air coolers and ram these days? I guess I could put it in pull config, but these fans are pretty low speed. Seems like a pain of a problem.



There's the two-tower air cooler designs that should work fine. Those don't have the problem because you can use them without a front fan, with just a single fan in the middle position. The fin stacks on those two-tower coolers are often cut a little at the bottom to not hit large RAM heatspreaders.

About the Macho and pull config, there was a fan duct accessory. Using that fan duct, you would mount a fan onto the rear fan spot of the case. It's this one here:

https://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-100700772-Fan-Duct-140/dp/B00O24R9U4/

And there was another duct for 120mm fans.


----------



## lightsout

deepor said:


> There's the two-tower air cooler designs that should work fine. Those don't have the problem because you can use them without a front fan, with just a single fan in the middle position. The fin stacks on those two-tower coolers are often cut a little at the bottom to not hit large RAM heatspreaders.
> 
> About the Macho and pull config, there was a fan duct accessory. Using that fan duct, you would mount a fan onto the rear fan spot of the case. It's this one here:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-100700772-Fan-Duct-140/dp/B00O24R9U4/
> 
> And there was another duct for 120mm fans.


Thats cool that it is an option, but with a toddler an externally mounted fan would be a bad idea, plus its fugly.  RIght now I have the housing of the fan shaved down and not so tall ram can fit.


----------



## doyll

lightsout said:


> Thats cool that it is an option, but with a toddler an externally mounted fan would be a bad idea, plus its fugly.  RIght now I have the housing of the fan shaved down and not so tall ram can fit.


That fan shroud fits onto back of cooler and onto rear case exhaust fan mounted on inside of rear case vent.


----------



## lightsout

doyll said:


> That fan shroud fits onto back of cooler and onto rear case exhaust fan mounted on inside of rear case vent.


I don't even have room to put a rear case fan with this cooler (Thermaltake Core V21 0


----------



## doyll

lightsout said:


> I don't even have room to put a rear case fan with this cooler (Thermaltake Core V21 0


What about a exhaust fan on outside with a grill on it like in below link?
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/fing...VSrTtCh21xQ-dEAQYASABEgKq3fD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
That way if you made a duct from cooler to back all air out rear vent would be coming through fan. Duct could be made from file folder cut, formed, put together with glue stick and painted with spray paint as shown in below link.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/22919853-post17.html


----------



## lightsout

doyll said:


> What about a exhaust fan on outside with a grill on it like in below link?
> https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/fing...VSrTtCh21xQ-dEAQYASABEgKq3fD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
> That way if you made a duct from cooler to back all air out rear vent would be coming through fan. Duct could be made from file folder cut, formed, put together with glue stick and painted with spray paint as shown in below link.
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/22919853-post17.html


I would rather just get a new cooler. Don't really like the idea of the fan being that far from the cooler. I am doing ok right now with the fan modded, but may get a True Spirit 140 Power in the futre and put the fan in the rear.


----------



## mark11

Hi guys!

choosing between *True Spirit 140* and *True Spirit 140 Power* for Ryzen 3900X - which is better in terms of max. cooling performance?

I also have the option of choosing DeepCool Lucifier V2 + two TY-143, 
what do you think about it? Will it perform worse than True Spirit + two TY-143 ?


----------



## doyll

mark11 said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> choosing between *True Spirit 140* and *True Spirit 140 Power* for Ryzen 3900X - which is better in terms of max. cooling performance?
> 
> I also have the option of choosing DeepCool Lucifier V2 + two TY-143,
> what do you think about it? Will it perform worse than True Spirit + two TY-143 ?


TRUE Spirit 140 Power has most cooling abliity, just be sure you have room for a cooler that is 171mm tall and 155mm wide, fins reach 77.5mm each side of center CPU. Using 2 fans on cooler gives only 1-2c lower temps at full fan speed. Two fans are about 3dB louder than one, but cooler performsthe sameat same dB. Only time 2x fans is better cooling is at full speed, and we don't run them that fast but rarely if ever. Also keep in mind you will need similar fans to TY-143 for case if you use TY-143 on cooler. 

What case will you be using?


----------



## ciarlatano

mark11 said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> choosing between *True Spirit 140* and *True Spirit 140 Power* for Ryzen 3900X - which is better in terms of max. cooling performance?
> 
> I also have the option of choosing DeepCool Lucifier V2 + two TY-143,
> what do you think about it? Will it perform worse than True Spirit + two TY-143 ?


Lucifer V2 would get a pass from me. Not a particularly good cooler - https://www.silentpcreview.com/Scythe_Mugen_Max_Deepcool_Lucifer_V2


----------



## Owterspace

TS140P is a really good cooler. I have one on my X5690 and it has been great. It looks small, but is tall. And those heat pipes are teh sexeh. Its a beast. It also cools my X5690 better than my Le Grand Macho RT.


----------



## mark11

Thank You guys! 



doyll said:


> TRUE Spirit 140 Power has most cooling abliity


Do you have any tests that confirms this?

Yesterday I find the comparison between TS140 and TS140P from very respectable (among Russians) source - https://3dnews.ru/818946/page-2.html, which shows that TS140 performs better!


----------



## doyll

mark11 said:


> Thank You guys!
> 
> 
> Do you have any tests that confirms this?
> 
> Yesterday I find the comparison between TS140 and TS140P from very respectable (among Russians) source - https://3dnews.ru/818946/page-2.html, which shows that TS140 performs better!


 I'm guessing they didn't have as good a seat with TRUE Spirit 140 Power as with TRUE Spirit 140 so CPU heat was transferring better to TS140 than to TS140P or air temp into cooler was not the same.

Because simple physics says 6x 8mm heatpipes and larger fin area have more cooling ablity than 6x6mm heatpipes with less fin area. 

Other possible variables are:

air temp into TS140P being a few degrees warmer than into TS140
TIM not being forced out to give metal to metal contact between cooler and IHS with TIM instead being a layer between them. (Bad TIM seat).
They say 
_"The room temperature was controlled by an electronic thermometer installed next to the system unit with an accuracy of 0.1 ° C and the possibility of hourly monitoring of temperature changes in the room over the past 6 hours. During this test, it ranged from *23.8-24.2* ° C."_​To me that means they are not actually monitoring the air temp into cooler but air temp around the case .. so we don't know for sure what air temp into coolers was each time CPU temp was recorded.


----------



## mark11

doyll said:


> I'm guessing they didn't have as good a seat with TRUE Spirit 140 Power as with TRUE Spirit 140 so CPU heat was transferring better to TS140 than to TS140P or air temp into cooler was not the same.


quote from https://3dnews.ru/818946/ :


> As for the evenness, it is very slightly convex, which did not prevent us from getting a uniform print across the entire surface area of the heat distributor of the LGA2011 processor





doyll said:


> Because simple physics says 6x 8mm heatpipes and larger fin area have more cooling ablity than 6x6mm heatpipes with less fin area.


quote from https://3dnews.ru/818946/ :


> the number of aluminum fins in the Thermalright TRUE Spirit 140 Power was reduced from 50 to 46, and the estimated radiator area decreased from an already modest 6950 to 6390 cm2





doyll said:


> To me that means they are not actually monitoring the air temp into cooler but air temp around the case .. so we don't know for sure what air temp into coolers was each time CPU temp was recorded.


They measured under the same conditions, just replaced coolers. Are there reasons why the into-temperature should be different?


----------



## doyll

mark11 said:


> quote from h6833.12ttps://3dnews.ru/818946/ :
> 
> quote from https://3dnews.ru/818946/ :
> 
> They measured under the same conditions, just replaced coolers. Are there reasons why the into-temperature should be different?


They say nothing about doing multiple re-mount and re-seating of coolers. Therefore I'm guessing they seated coolers once. Only way to know seats are good is mount cooler several times and see of each mounting gives same temps.

8mm heatpipes don't need as many fins to same amount of heat 6mm heatpipes because of bigger circumference. Actually TRUE Spirit 140 Power has 17.36% more heat transfer area from heatpipes to fins than TRUE Spirit 140 does.

Not measuring the air temp into cooler each time CPU temp is recorded leaves room for error in results that recording air temp into cooler each time leave no doubt. They did not record air temp into coolers each time they recorded CPU temps so we do know that they were always the same.


----------



## hazium233

I got a package today. Will probably get to tearing stuff out and installing tomorrow though.


----------



## Owterspace

That's crazy talk, Id have my system gutted and waiting once the tracking said out for delivery


----------



## doyll

I hear you Owterspace, but it's no fun when delivery doesn't arrive until a day or two later. Been there, done that, won't do it again. Now I wait until delivery is in hand.


----------



## Owterspace

doyll said:


> I hear you Owterspace, but it's no fun when delivery doesn't arrive until a day or two later. Been there, done that, won't do it again. Now I wait until delivery is in hand.


I know it’s bit me too 

I’ve takin my stuff apart so many times it doesn’t take long at all, just a few minutes.


----------



## doyll

Owterspace said:


> I know it’s bit me too
> 
> I’ve takin my stuff apart so many times it doesn’t take long at all, just a few minutes.


Used to be true for me too. Could build a system in little over an hour. Not a perfectly detailed build mind, but better cable management than many we see.


----------



## hazium233

I am just not dedicated enough. Actually I need to get more rubbing alcohol to get the AMD paste off of the 2700X. Fingers crossed that I don't pull the CPU with the Prism. 

I took a metal ruler to the baseplate of the TS140P. Perpendicular to the heatpipes, my baseplate seems very flat. With the ruler parallel to the heatpipe direction, it is very slightly convex. Looked a little flatter than the pic back on pg 81 (but that was LGMRT I think), but my lighting is probably different anyway.

Will maybe take a look at the 2700X when it is cleaned off, I didn't really bother to look at the flatness when I installed it the first time with the Prism.


----------



## doyll

hazium233 said:


> I am just not dedicated enough. Actually I need to get more rubbing alcohol to get the AMD paste off of the 2700X. Fingers crossed that I don't pull the CPU with the Prism.
> 
> I took a metal ruler to the baseplate of the TS140P. Perpendicular to the heatpipes, my baseplate seems very flat. With the ruler parallel to the heatpipe direction, it is very slightly convex. Looked a little flatter than the pic back on pg 81 (but that was LGMRT I think), but my lighting is probably different anyway.
> 
> Will maybe take a look at the 2700X when it is cleaned off, I didn't really bother to look at the flatness when I installed it the first time with the Prism.


 Sounds like you got it figured out. :thumb:
Below images are of delided 2000 series. You can see the dies are side by side to width of IHS. The only part of IHS needing TIM seat/print is just a little bigger than area where dies are. I'm guessing at couple dry rice size dobs on IHS over where middle of each CPU die is will give you more than big enough TIM seat. I normally use rice size in center and end up with a circle reaching edges of IHS. If you can, do a practice seat to see if print is covering all of die. Below link has a little more info and images of TIM prints:
https://www.overclock3d.net/gfx/articles/2018/04/23064020878l.jpg


----------



## hazium233

Got it installed. Seems like getting the Prism clips unhooked took a third of the time, and another nice portion was cleaning off the 2700X.

I didn't notice it when the Power arrived, but when I was installing it, three rows of fins were bent near one corner fairly substantially. I know I saw a review mentioning the same thing. I straightened them, even though they would have been hid by the vibration pads.

As for the install, it wasn't really all that bad. Fortunately the AMD washers hold the screws to the back plate. When I read through the instructions I thought I might need to tape the screws in on the back, but that wasn't necessary. The "top critical" review on Amazon complains that the install is so difficult even for an engineer, but I don't really see that. It might have been marginally more convenient if it could use the stock backplate, oh well. As long as the tiny screws hold, it should be ok.

I used my MX4 paste instead of opening the little packet that came with it. Used a grain of rice in the center, and two "half grains" above and below where I expect the die to be. This hopefully made less mess than the Prism cake of doom.

I also installed my Arctic P12 at the same time, I ended up putting it in between the two SW3s on the front panel, because it is easier to install 140, 120, 140. Finally pulled the GP12 from the rear exhaust. So I gained an intake, lost exhaust.

Earlier today I ran CB R20 as a last hurrah for the Prism. On stock 2700X core settings, Tdie peaked at 70.4C. First run with the TS140P and it hit max Tdie of 66.8C. I think room temp may actually be higher than it was earlier today too. Noise is more improved than the temperature though, although the fan curve for it and the P12 aren't remotely dialed in yet. I might rearrange the fan wire to headers, the free one the P12 could reach was the AIO. That one is locked to CPU temp and doesn't give me a curve to play with in Q-fan (just manual values in Monitor tab).


----------



## doyll

So a little cooler and much quieter. Any idea what cooler fan speed and case fan speed was? 

Sorry if you told me, but what case and case fan setup do you have?


----------



## hazium233

doyll said:


> So a little cooler and much quieter. Any idea what cooler fan speed and case fan speed was?
> 
> Sorry if you told me, but what case and case fan setup do you have?


It is a Meshify C.

I had the Prism and the SW3's somewhat aggressive, so in that test the Prism would eventually hit the 3000RPM L switch limit, while the SW3 would go to ~1300-1450RPM. Rear GP12 would max at 1200RPM once package temp got high enough.

For the TS140P test, the TY147A went to 1200RPM near the end, I think it topped at 1260. SW3 were lower because the package temp went lower, unfortunately I didn't take a screenshot. P12 went up to 1700 I think. It is more the mid-range and idle that needs work.

Alternatively, to warm the paste before I removed the Prism, I ran Prime custom Large FFT at 412 size, which finished the first self test with temp at 68.3C under the Prism. I reran it with the TS140P and it only went to 63.4C Tdie. The amusing thing is the motherboard temp dropping under load, I think this is an effect of the broad tower and perhaps no exhaust. I think the sensor is somewhere between the GPU PCIe slot and the CPU, where it was getting more flow at low load states with the Prism (or the Spire back when I had a 1600).


----------



## doyll

hazium233 said:


> It is a Meshify C.
> 
> I had the Prism and the SW3's somewhat aggressive, so in that test the Prism would eventually hit the 3000RPM L switch limit, while the SW3 would go to ~1300-1450RPM. Rear GP12 would max at 1200RPM once package temp got high enough.
> 
> For the TS140P test, the TY147A went to 1200RPM near the end, I think it topped at 1260. SW3 were lower because the package temp went lower, unfortunately I didn't take a screenshot. P12 went up to 1700 I think. It is more the mid-range and idle that needs work.
> 
> Alternatively, to warm the paste before I removed the Prism, I ran Prime custom Large FFT at 412 size, which finished the first self test with temp at 68.3C under the Prism. I reran it with the TS140P and it only went to 63.4C Tdie. The amusing thing is the motherboard temp dropping under load, I think this is an effect of the broad tower and perhaps no exhaust. I think the sensor is somewhere between the GPU PCIe slot and the CPU, where it was getting more flow at low load states with the Prism (or the Spire back when I had a 1600).


 Thanks for the info.

I'm guessing if temps were slowly rising and fan speed increasing then case airflow is getting warmer. My systems all jump up fluctuating a little for a couple minutes as airflow stabilizes, then stay pretty much at that temp as long as under same heavy load. At end of run they drop back to idle and temps stabilize again in a few minutes at end of run .. as shown in graph below. First one short run of Prime, second is encoding 6 sessions of graphics. The 5 temp/load drops are few seconds between encoding sessions.

I can post link to basic guide about airflow and optimizing case airflow if you like.


----------



## Owterspace

Don’t be shy with TIM. Don’t be afraid to remount if you have to


----------



## hazium233

I have read most of your thread over time. 

I think the main confounders with this setup are partly to motherboard and partly the behavior of the 2700X. For the latter, it is going boost based on temp, and so watching it under prime the Tdie could fluctuate slightly from that. The 63.4C wasn't exactly at the end, the temp had come down a degree maybe.

The other bit is the motherboard factor, as the only CPU temp I can use is the IT8665E read "CPU" rather than the processor reported Tctl (or the virtual Tdie). At low load this matters very little as the Tdie and package temperature will stay pretty similar. Under load there can be a lot of disparity though, depending on how long it has boosted, and also how many cores get boosted. The difference could be nearly 10C from package to Tdie. With the TS140P it was only 8 max I think difference in Prime, but that was enough that the 147 didn't max until Tdie hit the 63.4C.

The trade off is that I could make the fans aggressive in the mid range, but this processor under light load will dance from high 20's to low 40's Tdie as a core may go to 4.35GHz. Since this cooler is quieter and less annoying I may make it more aggressive there. When I tried it with the Prism setup to boost CBR20 scores, it made it annoying when a background task started running at the same time as a browser.


----------



## hazium233

Missed this one earlier, previous post was in response to doyll. 



Owterspace said:


> Don’t be shy with TIM. Don’t be afraid to remount if you have to


Maybe if I am bored I will pull it and look at the print tomorrow.

Here is a similar Prime run to last night, although room ambient might be a tad less. It was custom large FFT with auto-memory allocated, no run in place. Anyway the test was about 6 minutes, the screenshot was with it running going to the 480K size. Anyway for the first size, it climbed to Tdie ~62.4C and held there more or less, until the second size. First size was at ~119W, the second was up to 121W.

AIO pump is really the Arctic P12 PWM. Chassis 2 and 3 are 140mm SW3 HS PWM

edit:

ran 10min small FFT on a whim. 36K length seemed to stop at 65C, the next length went to 65.3C. Power spiked to 130W here.


----------



## Owterspace

This 3770K is the hottest chip I've ever owned, its brutal. It doesn't put out heat, at least not with my Thermalright coolers, its just internal. I don't mind too much if temps happen to be in the 90s running some kind of torture software. It reboots at around 105 fyi.. My X5690 is easier to cool, but it puts out serious heat. It gets my LGMRT and TS140P a little more than luke warm with a quiet TY147B @ 4200mhz with Linpack and very little case flow. I have the TY147A for it on the front of my case keeping my hdd cool, and feeding fresh air to my gpu. Its only a 100 RPM difference pretty much. Anywhoo.. Id say you are good to go, Looks like you could probably go for a bit more, but Im not sure how that all works so.. Enjoy!


----------



## Elrick

hazium233 said:


> I got a package today. Will probably get to tearing stuff out and installing tomorrow though.


Have also bought it just last night, to try it out with my old Ryzen 3800X series.

Forgot to ask you guys here on OCN, would this cooler fit comfortably inside this; https://www.pccasegear.com/products/43823/fractal-design-define-r6-usb-c-tg-case-white

OR 

This Case Model; https://www.pccasegear.com/products/49385/fractal-design-define-7-tempered-glass-white

_Should of checked the dimensions of everything but I'm off site, hence it would be difficult. That is why I always turn to you lot here on OCN_ :thumb: .


----------



## doyll

Elrick said:


> Have also bought it just last night, to try it out with my old Ryzen 3800X series.
> 
> Forgot to ask you guys here on OCN, would this cooler fit comfortably inside this; https://www.pccasegear.com/products/43823/fractal-design-define-r6-usb-c-tg-case-white
> 
> OR
> 
> This Case Model; https://www.pccasegear.com/products/49385/fractal-design-define-7-tempered-glass-white
> 
> _Should of checked the dimensions of everything but I'm off site, hence it would be difficult. That is why I always turn to you lot here on OCN_ :thumb: .


 Define R6 and Define 7 have 185mm CPU clearance so plenty of room for cooler. But will your motherboard have enough room from center CPU to x16 PCIe socket? And will your RAM be short enough for fan to fit? 

You will need at least 78mm (assuming back of GPU is flush with side of PCIe socket) from center of CPU to near side of x16 PCIe socket

If your RAM is more than 50mm tall 140mm fan will not fit between top of RAM and case side panel. 

185mm case clearnace (distance from surface of CPU IHS to case side).
+ 8mm surface of motherboard to top of IHS
- 3mm bottom of RAM socket to surface of motherboard
190mm for RAM and fan. 

140mm for fan
50mm for RAM
You will need 2 or 3 good 140mm intake fans for front and/or front & bottom intakes. Stock case fans (Dynamic X2 GP-14) are horrible fans. They have extremely low ([email protected]) pressure rating, so even at full speed they are barely able to overcome grill and filter resistance. Good fans have pressure ratings of [email protected] which is about [email protected]


----------



## hazium233

Elrick said:


> Have also bought it just last night, to try it out with my old Ryzen 3800X series.
> 
> Forgot to ask you guys here on OCN, would this cooler fit comfortably inside this; https://www.pccasegear.com/products/43823/fractal-design-define-r6-usb-c-tg-case-white
> 
> OR
> 
> This Case Model; https://www.pccasegear.com/products/49385/fractal-design-define-7-tempered-glass-white
> 
> _Should of checked the dimensions of everything but I'm off site, hence it would be difficult. That is why I always turn to you lot here on OCN_ :thumb: .


What doyll said, with a couple more observations with my X370-F.

The fan edge seems to be near the edge of the nearest dimm slot, but as the board has four and I have only populated A2 B2 (standard 2 of 4 for AM4), the ram height did not matter for me.

The bottom of the cooler is a few mm above the backplate of my GPU. It does cover the highest PCIe 1x slot, although since the fin stack is a bit away I am pretty sure I could put a mini card (like wifi) in that slot if I really wanted to.


----------



## Elrick

doyll said:


> Define R6 and Define 7 have 185mm CPU clearance so plenty of room for cooler. But will your motherboard have enough room from center CPU to x16 PCIe socket? And will your RAM be short enough for fan to fit?
> 
> You will need at least 78mm (assuming back of GPU is flush with side of PCIe socket) from center of CPU to near side of x16 PCIe socket
> 
> If your RAM is more than 50mm tall 140mm fan will not fit between top of RAM and case side panel.
> 
> 185mm case clearnace (distance from surface of CPU IHS to case side).
> + 8mm surface of motherboard to top of IHS
> - 3mm bottom of RAM socket to surface of motherboard
> 190mm for RAM and fan.
> 
> 140mm for fan
> 50mm for RAM
> You will need 2 or 3 good 140mm intake fans for front and/or front & bottom intakes. Stock case fans (Dynamic X2 GP-14) are horrible fans. They have extremely low ([email protected]) pressure rating, so even at full speed they are barely able to overcome grill and filter resistance. Good fans have pressure ratings of [email protected] which is about [email protected]


The 140 Power Cooler will go on my Gigabyte X570 Aorus Master with my used Innovation Cooling Graphite Thermal Pads (two of them together).

They've always worked quite well so I won't be buying any more to add to my collection here. My wonderful child tipped over my old Silverstone Case (whilst I was on site) so the cooler got bent and cracked but have no idea if the motherboard still works.

Hence why I have to buy another case which in this time period don't offer much difference with design placement of motherboards internally, which was why I loved my ancient Silverstone case still unique after all these years.

But instead of crying over this tragedy best just to buy another case instead. Eager to try out the 140 Power Cooler, which everyone raves about with good reason.

Thanks for letting me know the measurements in such detail, OCN always delivers with vital info :thumb: .


----------



## Schmuckley

wes1099 said:


> I recently used the last of my IC diamond, what TIM do you recommend to use?


Gelid or on the cheap side...MX4.

IC diamond scratches. Remember...Gelid for the delid.. 

I like the looks of this cooler, reminds me of that Enermax TS140..wasn't it?

linky to buy?


----------



## Elrick

doyll said:


> 140mm for fan
> 50mm for RAM
> You will need 2 or 3 good 140mm intake fans for front and/or front & bottom intakes. Stock case fans (Dynamic X2 GP-14) are horrible fans. They have extremely low ([email protected]) pressure rating, so even at full speed they are barely able to overcome grill and filter resistance. Good fans have pressure ratings of [email protected] which is about [email protected]


Thanks doyll, Have already laid in orders for some of these;

https://www.pccasegear.com/products/27874/noctua-nf-a14-industrial-ppc-140mm-2000rpm-ip67-pwm-fan

BUT what kind of fans would actually fit on the True Spirit 140 Power?

I know that they have some kind of ridiculous 120mm wire fittings (on the rest of their Heatsink range) but hoping with this latest model, they would indeed take two Noctua NF-A14 Industrials.

_Please let me know soon, shall be putting in an order for new fans on my True Spirit 140 Power. Quiet is not required here in my Home, it has to blast air through anything keeping the temps down as much as possible._


----------



## Elrick

Schmuckley said:


> I like the looks of this cooler, reminds me of that Enermax TS140..wasn't it?
> 
> linky to buy?



This is where I bought mine, coming in on the 20th of this month due to living here in an isolated 3RD world settlement.

https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B00IYEEOMO/ref=pe_2361882_282382012_TE_item


----------



## doyll

Elrick said:


> Thanks doyll, Have already laid in orders for some of these;
> 
> https://www.pccasegear.com/products/27874/noctua-nf-a14-industrial-ppc-140mm-2000rpm-ip67-pwm-fan
> 
> BUT what kind of fans would actually fit on the True Spirit 140 Power?
> 
> I know that they have some kind of ridiculous 120mm wire fittings (on the rest of their Heatsink range) but hoping with this latest model, they would indeed take two Noctua NF-A14 Industrials.
> 
> _Please let me know soon, shall be putting in an order for new fans on my True Spirit 140 Power. Quiet is not required here in my Home, it has to blast air through anything keeping the temps down as much as possible._


Those are extremely expensive!!! You can get be quiet! Silent Wings 3 PWM High Speed for $29 on same sight and in my opinion while they are not as high speed they are a better fan with much nicer sound. Obviously inaudible below about 1000rpm.
Cooljag Everflow Model#*:* EVERFLOW F121425BUAF are very good if you can find them. Puget Systems and FrozenCPU sell them.
https://www.pugetsystems.com/parts/Additional-Cooling/Cooljag-Everflow-140mm-PWM-Fan-9355#specs
https://www.frozencpu.com/products/15477/fan-966/Cooljag_Everflow_140mm_x_25mm_Fan_R121425SL.html

If possible, TY-143 on TS140P. If not, with clip modification Cooljag Everflow one listed above.


----------



## Elrick

doyll said:


> Those are extremely expensive!!! You can get be quiet! Silent Wings 3 PWM High Speed for $29 on same sight and in my opinion while they are not as high speed they are a better fan with much nicer sound. Obviously inaudible below about 1000rpm.
> Cooljag Everflow Model#*:* EVERFLOW F121425BUAF are very good if you can find them. Puget Systems and FrozenCPU sell them.
> 
> https://www.frozencpu.com/products/15477/fan-966/Cooljag_Everflow_140mm_x_25mm_Fan_R121425SL.html
> 
> If possible, TY-143 on TS140P. If not, with clip modification Cooljag Everflow one listed above.


Thank you bud, much appreciated.

I'll probably use the Noctua NF-A14s for the front of the case where the noise doesn't bother me, old and deaf here :wave2: . 

Have an account at Frozen which I have not used in seven years. Time to hit them again for the Cooljags.


----------



## doyll

Elrick said:


> Thank you bud, much appreciated.
> 
> I'll probably use the Noctua NF-A14s for the front of the case where the noise doesn't bother me, old and deaf here :wave2: .
> 
> Have an account at Frozen which I have not used in seven years. Time to hit them again for the Cooljags.


Please let us know how it all comes together. :thumb:


----------



## Abula

@doyll, is FrozenCPU working fine? i used to buy from them a lot, until something happen internally, wondering if everything is back to normal now?


----------



## doyll

Abula said:


> @*doyll* , is FrozenCPU working fine? i used to buy from them a lot, until something happen internally, wondering if everything is back to normal now?


 I'm in Europe so never order from them so have no idea. I know the incident you are referring to back in 2015?? not sure when it was. I know owner and wife after his episode firing everyone then distroying were working hard to keep business going. My guess is if it's still got door open then it's safe to buy from them. Although unless employer-employee relationship hasn't improved I would only buy if it was only place, which is only reason I posted link to them for EVERFLOW F121425BUAF fans. 

Did a quick google of customer reviews and looks like they are doing good job for customers but few x-employees say he's hard to work for. See below links:
https://www.resellerratings.com/store/FrozenCPU
https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/Frozencpu-Reviews-E795771.htm
https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1058899-frozencpu-legit-site/


----------



## Melcar

Well the last time I bought from FrozenCPU I never got my item and ended up refunding the order. That was what? 2014-2015. Did not hear good things from the shop for a few months after that so never bothered with them again. They still seem to be active (I still follow them on FB) and have not heard any serious horror stories since. These days when I buy stuff from the U.S. I mainly use PerformancePCs, Amazon and Newegg. 

I would order something small first and with either PayPal or a credit card that allows easy stop payments and/or refunds. Just to be on the safe side.


----------



## doyll

Melcar said:


> Well the last time I bought from FrozenCPU I never got my item and ended up refunding the order. That was what? 2014-2015. Did not hear good things from the shop for a few months after that so never bothered with them again. They still seem to be active (I still follow them on FB) and have not heard any serious horror stories since. These days when I buy stuff from the U.S. I mainly use PerformancePCs, Amazon and Newegg.
> 
> I would order something small first and with either PayPal or a credit card that allows easy stop payments and/or refunds. Just to be on the safe side.


Paying with PayPal or credit card are only logical/reasonably safe ways of buying online/mailorder.


----------



## D-EJ915

They have been fine for last year on all my buys and ship really fast. Also I've had those Cooljags in my old rig for 8 years now with 0 issues, they are great fans.


----------



## doyll

D-EJ915 said:


> They have been fine for last year on all my buys and ship really fast. Also I've had those Cooljags in my old rig for 8 years now with 0 issues, they are great fans.


Bit of trivia, Cooljag or whoever makes their EVERFLOW F121425BUAF was OEM for Thermalright TY-140 & TY-143. May still be for fans of same design (although I know there are some copies that Thermalright bought out to stop or add to their fan line). Square 140mm Thermalright fans that came out a few years ago look like, and same bearing and speed range as Cooljag EVERFLOW F121425BUAF


----------



## airisom2

Just found this amazing deal. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00U641ILU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ALGI22DCR8EFU&psc=1

$26.79 after tax and free shipping. We'll see if it's legit I guess. Strange thing is that I couldn't find this on Amazon's search, but a google link brought me to it. Seller's rating is 90%/12mo so maybe if your rating is below a certain threshold they remove you from search or something, idk. 

But sub $30 for a cooler of this class is worth the shot. Will let ya'll know how it goes. Hopefully this isn't some bad batch with an out of tolerance base or something.


----------



## doyll

airisom2 said:


> Just found this amazing deal.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00U641ILU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ALGI22DCR8EFU&psc=1
> 
> $26.79 after tax and free shipping. We'll see if it's legit I guess. Strange thing is that I couldn't find this on Amazon's search, but a google link brought me to it. Seller's rating is 90%/12mo so maybe if your rating is below a certain threshold they remove you from search or something, idk.
> 
> But sub $30 for a cooler of this class is worth the shot. Will let ya'll know how it goes. Hopefully this isn't some bad batch with an out of tolerance base or something.


Agree it's a fantastic deal if it's real, but price being below wholesale sure makes me wonder. If I was on your side of pond I would grab all they would sell at that price.


----------



## airisom2

Well, I got a tracking number. Now to see if they send me a brick in the box haha.


----------



## Blameless

airisom2 said:


> Well, I got a tracking number. Now to see if they send me a brick in the box haha.


Curious to see how this turns out!


----------



## speed_demon

I've gone ahead and ordered one as well. Will post with more info if/when it arrives.


----------



## Bruizer

Is it possible these are older stock units without the AM4 mounting bracket?


----------



## Owterspace

Bruizer said:


> Is it possible these are older stock units without the AM4 mounting bracket?


I got one two years ago that has AM4 mount.


----------



## doyll

Bruizer said:


> Is it possible these are older stock units without the AM4 mounting bracket?


 Yes it is possible. While AM4 mounts have been included for years now, there is still some old stock being sold that does not have AM4 mount out there. But it's easy enough to verify by asking seller. Mount compatiblity is in labeling on box so if it's ebay seller could ask for pic of that side of box.


----------



## airisom2

Well it came in. AM4 mounting, bent fins, nothing some pliers can't fix. Can't complain. I'll get around to playing with it later on, comparing it to the LGM RT on this old processor. Since I now have 2x TY-147As, I can do some P/P on the TS140P. I wonder what's going to perform better? If speed_demon's is bent up too, then that's probably the reason why they're cheap. B-grade. 

Oh yeah, the baseplate looks pretty flat, about the same as my LGM RT which is impressively flat on both X/Y axes, and the solder job on the heatpipes is really well done. Snatch them up while you can.


----------



## speed_demon

My Thermalright 140 cooler arrived as well. It does have the AM4 mounting brackets included. And it is most definitely a genuine part, meaning this was more than likely a price mistake or a closeout sale due to a company going under from the covid-19.

The low price doesn't account for the two bent fins I have. The bent fins were really very minor and I fixed them by hand in a few seconds after taking the photos. Personally I see this company's other items look like a closeout sale so I'm guessing some business closed up shop due to the covid-19 pandemic. 

I design consumer products for a living and I will tell you this is an excellent quality cooler. I also included a photo of it next to a bare Hyper 212 Evo for scale. The 212 evo weighs roughly half what this thing does. 

I took lots of photos.


----------



## hazium233

airisom2 said:


> Well it came in. AM4 mounting, bent fins, nothing some pliers can't fix. Can't complain. I'll get around to playing with it later on, comparing it to the LGM RT on this old processor. Since I now have 2x TY-147As, I can do some P/P on the TS140P. I wonder what's going to perform better? If speed_demon's is bent up too, then that's probably the reason why they're cheap. B-grade.
> 
> Oh yeah, the baseplate looks pretty flat, about the same as my LGM RT which is impressively flat on both X/Y axes, and the solder job on the heatpipes is really well done. Snatch them up while you can.


Mine new from Nan's (amazon) had some bent fins on one corner. That was in a couple reviews on Amazon, too. Don't know if that was something that happened somewhere in the supply chain or what.


----------



## Valka814

*TS 140P*

My cooler also have a slightly bent fin, but dont had AM4 mount kit. I bought it in a hungarian webshop back in november.


----------



## Owterspace

Awesome boys, I hope you have some excellent results when you are finished playing. TS140P and LGMRT are the best cooling solutions I have used. Hopefully you have the same luck!

No bent fins on either of my coolers, and I unmounted them last weekend and both bases are nearly identical, both of them excellent.

Might I suggest a TY-143 if you ever get bored, that thing can move some serious air. Works great on both coolers.


----------



## ThomasD

*Quick comparison - 140 mm vs. 120 mm fans*

Hi all, just wanted to share the results of a quick and dirty experiment I tried this morning.

My old system (4790k overclocked to 4.8 Ghz) recently died due to a motherboard failure, necessitating an upgrade to an 3900X (presently running stock.) I had been using a TS140P with two TY-143s in push pull, so kept the same cooling arrangement. The only problem is the possibility of adding additional RAM - my eyeballs say even LP sticks will likely make contact with the front fan unless it is raised to a questionable position. So, what to do? Well, I happen to have a set of Corsair ML120s (aRGB) that are supposed to go into a build for one of my sons, and thought why not give them a try?

Test was simple, first I changed the fan curve in BIOS to max out once the CPU hit 50 degrees, since I'm really only interested in max cooling potential - everything else would just be points in between. Then starting from a cold system (morning startup for TY-143s, then off for about 30 minutes to change fans) I let the system run at idle/near idle (web surfing) for 15 minutes, then ran an AIDA64 stress test for 15 minutes. The ML120s would not accept the stock mounting clips so I had to resort to zip ties. Not exactly elegant, but certainly secure. The room is in the basement, under air in the summer, and typically sits in the 68-70 degree F range) 

Results are: (all Deg C, no screen shots, sorry I'm lazy)

TY-143s

Idle: CPU 40 MoBo 26 
Load: CPU Max 72 CPU Avg 60 (per graph this was actually trending closer to 63) MoBo 26 


ML120s

Idle: CPU 41 MoBo 25 
Load: CPU Max 77 CPU Avg 62 (per graph this was more like 67) MoBo 26



I really should have done longer runs to get better average temps, but looking at the graphs the trends were pretty clear - both holding steady with the odd occasional spikes into the 70 degree range, with the ML120s running about 4-5 degrees higher than the TY-143.

Noise level was night and day. The TY-143s are not unpleasant, but at full bore they are quite audible. When the ML120s spin up it is still noticeable, but to my ears not nearly so loud. From an even more subjective angle the TYs are a lower sound - much more like the thrum of a box fan house like painters use, while the MLs are more midrangey in pitch - more like an ordinary case fan type sound.

Also, my case has good airflow. It's a Phantom 820 with lots of large (200 mm and 140mm) fans running low speed , but moving plenty of air. Lastly, using 120mm fans absolutely solves the RAM clearance issue.

I'm surprised/not surprised. On the one hand the smaller fans are theoretically moving less than half as much air as the 140s, but as we all know radial fans move most of their air at the outer edge, and so that means much of what the 140s do move is not actually flowing through the fins of the heatsink. The 120s do not extend beyond the fins much at all - only near the base around the heat pipes. So, practically speaking, the amount of air moving through the critical areas of the sink may not be all that different, and maybe in some places better. 

Now I'm really curious what something like a pair of Noctua industrial 120mm fans could do.


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## doyll

I played around with different 120mm and 140mm fans on an older Silver Arrow. At same noise levels the TY-140/TY-143 fans almost always cooled better by a couple degrees. Never tried it on TRUE Spirit 140 Power. 

Thanks for the info. :thumb:



Always learning.


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## dansi

can we fit TS140P in a Tu150? 

This 171mm height is giving me headache for a sff build


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## doyll

dansi said:


> can we fit TS140P in a Tu150?
> 
> This 171mm height is giving me headache for a sff build


If you look at TU150 specs on Lian Li website you will find CPU clearance. When you do you will be able to see if it is more or less than the 171mm height of TRUE Spirit 140 Power cooler. Then you will know.


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## dansi

doyll said:


> If you look at TU150 specs on Lian Li website you will find CPU clearance. When you do you will be able to see if it is more or less than the 171mm height of TRUE Spirit 140 Power cooler. Then you will know.


yea i was hoping for miracle or at least the tempered glass has extra bit of extrusion


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## doyll

dansi said:


> yea i was hoping for miracle or at least the tempered glass has extra bit of extrusion


We can often squeeze in 2-3mm taller cooler than CPU clearance. But not in this case (no pun).


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## Gilles3000

dansi said:


> can we fit TS140P in a Tu150?
> 
> This 171mm height is giving me headache for a sff build


Doubt it, haven't seen any mention of the TU150 having extra clearance, sop an extra 6mm is quite unlikely.

Which are you most set on the case or the cooler? There are plenty of good cooler options for the TU150, but only a few sub-25L cases that can fit the TS140P.


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## Owterspace

TS140P in a Meshify C is a tight fit. My profile pic was taken through a stamped hole in the case just above the rear fan. There is probably less than .5mm between the tip of the pipe and the glass.


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## dansi

Yeah i sucks, TS140P can fit in RV02E with window, even if specs say 165mm limit. 

Which mitx case can fit TS140P, was hoping to recycle this HSF for SFF build


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## doyll

dansi said:


> Yeah i sucks, TS140P can fit in RV02E with window, even if specs say 165mm limit.
> 
> Which mitx case can fit TS140P, was hoping to recycle this HSF for SFF build


Sorry, but just looked at Silverstone website and find RV02-E spec is "*Limitation of CPU cooler 169mm* "
https://www.silverstonetek.com/raven/product-rv.php?pid=279#fgo-spec

171m tall cooler is 2mm taller than Silverstone specs for RV02-E of 169mm, so fits. 

I seriously doubt 171mm will fit in TU150 with it's spec of 165mm.

If you don't already have the case, I suggest getting a case that TRUE Spirit 140 Power will fit in. There are many good cases that 171mm tall coolers fit easily.


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## Gilles3000

dansi said:


> Yeah i sucks, TS140P can fit in RV02E with window, even if specs say 165mm limit.
> 
> Which mitx case can fit TS140P, was hoping to recycle this HSF for SFF build


In order of increasing size:


Silverstone SG14 (20L)
Jonsbo U3 (21L)
Silverstone LD03-AF (25L)
Jonsbo V8 (25L)
Raijintek Styx (25L)

Some of them are mATX, but all are fairly small.


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## dansi

Gilles3000 said:


> In order of increasing size:
> 
> 
> Silverstone SG14 (20L)
> Jonsbo U3 (21L)
> Silverstone LD03-AF (25L)
> Jonsbo V8 (25L)
> Raijintek Styx (25L)
> 
> Some of them are mATX, but all are fairly small.


+rep


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## doyll

Not sure if you would be interested in any of these:
ractal Design Meshify C is good case and measures (LxWxH)395 x 212 x 440 mm. with feet/protrusions/screws it's 413 x 217 x 453 mm.
Fractal Design Meshify C Mini LxWxH) 395 x 212 x 399 mm, with feet/protrusions/screws 409 x 217 x 412 mm
Phanteks Pro M is 500 x 235 x 480 mm (L x W x H)
Phanteks Enthoo Mini XL is 480 x 260 x 550 mm (L x W x H)
Phantkes Evolv mATX is 400 x 230 mm x 453 mm (L x W x H)
PC-TU150 is |(D) 375 X (W) 199 X (H) 312 mm so definitely smaller


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## dansi

doyll said:


> Not sure if you would be interested in any of these:
> ractal Design Meshify C is good case and measures (LxWxH)395 x 212 x 440 mm. with feet/protrusions/screws it's 413 x 217 x 453 mm.
> Fractal Design Meshify C Mini LxWxH) 395 x 212 x 399 mm, with feet/protrusions/screws 409 x 217 x 412 mm
> Phanteks Pro M is 500 x 235 x 480 mm (L x W x H)
> Phanteks Enthoo Mini XL is 480 x 260 x 550 mm (L x W x H)
> Phantkes Evolv mATX is 400 x 230 mm x 453 mm (L x W x H)
> PC-TU150 is |(D) 375 X (W) 199 X (H) 312 mm so definitely smaller


these appear too big'gish for something to tuck away 

I liking the jonsbo, all aluminium build with good quality. But they seem to lack a filter and not widely available now. :h34r-smi


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## doyll

dansi said:


> these appear too big'gish for something to tuck away
> 
> I liking the jonsbo, all aluminium build with good quality. But they seem to lack a filter and not widely available now. :h34r-smi


I assume your motherboard has CPU socket far enough from PCIe sockets for GPU to fit. I ask because TRUE Spirit 140 Power finpack is are 155mm wide reach 77.5 each side of center CPU, so may not work on ITX motherboard that (170x170mm in size), or fit in Jonsbo which is only 249mm wide. You need 78mm center CPU toward side of case and toward PCIe socket you are using for TS140P to fit. 

What motherboard are you using?


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## dansi

Im going to use b550i from gigabyte, it is itx. I wont be using a dedicated gpu because of renoir, but dang! Seems sadly TS140P is an outlyer. I may just go with a SFF downdraft HSF from Noutua or Scythe...


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## doyll

dansi said:


> Im going to use b550i from gigabyte, it is itx. I wont be using a dedicated gpu because of renoir, but dang! Seems sadly TS140P is an outlyer. I may just go with a SFF downdraft HSF from Noutua or Scythe...


Here is TRUE Spirit 140 Power on your Gigabyte B550i


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## dansi

doyll said:


> Here is TRUE Spirit 140 Power on your Gigabyte B550i


+rep thanks.

Looks ok to fit into a casing at least from top clearance.


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## doyll

dansi said:


> +rep thanks.
> 
> Looks ok to fit into a casing at least from top clearance.


I tried finding a top view of case so I could verify fin clearance to right side, but didn't find one I could scale and check. Height will definitely fit. PCIe socket is clear too. But cooler fins reach beyond right side of motherboard, and it looks like a fit but it's close. If I had a top view showing sides of motherboard, I could tell for sure.


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## icetorch

Has the TS140P been tested with arctic P14 fans?


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## Owterspace

icetorch said:


> Has the TS140P been tested with arctic P14 fans?


Sounds like blasphemy but..

Not up on my fans these days, but TS140P has a tall dense fin pack, so if they don’t stack up to other top end fans then I would say just use the TY-147A that comes with it, or get a TY-143. It responds well with it. The 147A is pretty decent on its own.. two works well too. Just food for thought. I run the 143 and it is awesome, but a bit loud at its upper revs. But if you are looking at 100cfm+ fans I’m sure noise isn’t much of a concern lol.


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## doyll

icetorch said:


> Has the TS140P been tested with arctic P14 fans?


What Owterspace said. 

The round design of TY-14x series fans spreads air in wider circle than square fans for big coolers. Square fans don't flwo air the same so often don't cool as well.

This is what Noctua says:


> NF-A15: Round 140mm frame with 150mm width
> The NF-A15 is tailor-made for use on today’s high-end CPU coolers: While its 150mm width matches those of most high-end heatsinks, its 140mm height doesn’t make it extend on top and thus ensures best case compatibility. The NF-A15’s standard 120mm mounting holes (105mm spacing) also make it an ideal performance upgrade for 120mm case or CPU fans.


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## hazium233

icetorch said:


> Has the TS140P been tested with arctic P14 fans?


Phanteks doesn't happen to have clips for 124.5mm fan hole spacing do they? I suppose there are always zip ties.

I considered trying to do a switcheroo and see what one or two SW3 HS might do on it, but I didn't think it would be worth the hassle for a few hundred extra revs.



Owterspace said:


> Sounds like blasphemy but..
> 
> Not up on my fans these days, but TS140P has a tall dense fin pack, so if they don’t stack up to other top end fans then I would say just use the TY-147A that comes with it, or get a TY-143. It responds well with it. The 147A is pretty decent on its own.. two works well too. Just food for thought. I run the 143 and it is awesome, but a bit loud at its upper revs. But if you are looking at 100cfm+ fans I’m sure noise isn’t much of a concern lol.


Been wondering about density, I know TS140P is denser than the Macho family.

I noticed the F140HP 2 is on sale right now for ~$14. I would think that impeller is more suited for denser fins, but on the other hand I was looking at the PQ graph at Cooling Technique with a "PH-T14S Stock Fan" which appeared to be the F140HP 2 based on the photo. The TY-141 made a little better pressure from about 40-70cfm. Sadly it isn't a 147A since IIRC the 141 has slightly different impeller than the other TY 140s. This fan only seemed to hit a little over 1400RPM though, which is a little outside -10% for 1600 spec. Pressure was much higher than other fans from 30cfm and down though, not sure how relevant that would really be for an air cooler.

The TS140P review had a curve for a 147A, which nearly overlapped with the F140SP.

TY-143 always seems like a natural replacement choice, but they haven't been available in the US for a while now.


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## doyll

hazium233 said:


> Phanteks doesn't happen to have clips for 124.5mm fan hole spacing do they? I suppose there are always zip ties.
> 
> I considered trying to do a switcheroo and see what one or two SW3 HS might do on it, but I didn't think it would be worth the hassle for a few hundred extra revs.
> 
> 
> 
> Been wondering about density, I know TS140P is denser than the Macho family.
> 
> I noticed the F140HP 2 is on sale right now for ~$14. I would think that impeller is more suited for denser fins, but on the other hand I was looking at the PQ graph at Co
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oling Technique with a "PH-T14S Stock Fan" which appeared to be the F140HP 2 based on the photo. The TY-141 made a little better pressure from about 40-70cfm. Sadly it isn't a 147A since IIRC the 141 has slightly different impeller than the other TY 140s. This fan only seemed to hit a little over 1400RPM though, which is a little outside -10% for 1600 spec. Pressure was much higher than other fans from 30cfm and down though, not sure how relevant that would really be for an air cooler.
> 
> The TS140P review had a curve for a 147A, which nearly overlapped with the F140SP.
> 
> TY-143 always seems like a natural replacement choice, but they haven't been available in the US for a while now.


F140HP2 is quite good. I've included TY-147A and PH-F140HP II test result from CoolingTechnique with rpm kinda the same to show how much additional performance there is with PH-F140HP II.


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## Owterspace

Oh yeah its a little denser than something like Le Grand Macho RT 

The cooler responds well to TY143, its a really decent setup. I mean the stock fan is ok too, but two are better.. For the price? I don't think it can be beat.. even if you spend a bit more for TY143. Last winter I benched my X5690 at 4800MHz with 1.6v with that combo. As for availability, man that blows. I just checked Amazon and its not there. You have to buy a cooler to get one.. Looks like they only have a T8 in stock.. its pretty nice too..


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## hazium233

I don't imagine the TS140P fins are as restrictive as a Swiftech MCR140QP, went back to the Thermalbench charts, in those the F140MP is ahead of the 147A, but not by a drastic amount per RPM. Right on top of each other for noise, making F140MP a bit better noise normalized too. You can get two F140HP 2 for the price of one SW3 HS right now, same with TY-147A.

What was the final word on the TY-143? It wasn't really discontinued was it, and this is just an availability issue? It isn't noted as discontinued on the Thermalright website. Are the TL-D14, and TL-C14 supposed to replace most of the 140mm lineup?


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## Owterspace

Looks to be an availability issue again. TS140P isn't too restrictive, as a 75cfm fan is "good enough" for near silent and effective operation. 130cfm is better, but at those speeds its no longer a quiet fan


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## doyll

Results below show temps for 600, 1200 & 2500rpm with 1x & 2x TY-143 fans on TRUE Spirit 140 Power & D14. Case was also setup with TY-143 fans because case fans have to move / supply at least as much airflow through case as cooler fan/s are using. If not air temp entering cooler will be much warmer because cooler has to re-use it's own heated exhaust airflow for air case isn't supplying. Every degree warmer air is entering hard working CPU cooler means it runs same degrees hotter.


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## hazium233

I ended up ordering 2x F140HP II and ran a few tests. This was not done in a lab, and I used my phone to get volume data. Not sure how accurate it is, hopefully it was at least precise. Attempts made to minimize background noise though. I left the same fan curve for the case fans for all the tests (2x 140mm SW3 PWM HS + 1x 120mm P12 PWM - front panel).

Fan configurations explored were:


TY-147A ramped to 100% PWM ~1280 RPM at load
HP II x 1 ramped to 70% PWM ~1300 RPM at load
HP II x 1 ramped to 100% PWM ~1700 RPM at load
HP II x 2 ramped to 70% PWM ~1300 RPM at load
HP II x 2 ramped to 100% PWM ~1700 RPM at load
2700X with default core parameters under TS140P (MX4 paste), Meshify C.

Test was to run Prime95 29.8b3 custom test FFT 128-128, Run In Place, "Time to run FFT" option 3 min (this option shouldn't do much with Run In Place checked). Length of trial was originally intended to be 10min, but since Tdie seemed flat within ~3min typically, I just ran them for two FFT iterations (~6min).

Tdie


Average Load (C)Relative to TY-147A (dC)TY-147A (100%)67.3-F140HP II (70%)67.5+0.2F140HP II (100%)66.3-1.0F140HP II x 2 (70%)66.3-1.0F140HP II x 2 (100%)64.8-2.5

Noise


Average Load (dB)Relative to TY-147A*TY-147A (100%)28.8-F140HP II (70%)29.521.2F140HP II (100%)30.425.3F140HP II x 2 (70%)30.625.9F140HP II x 2 (100%)33.331.4

* =10*LOG[ 10^(dBx/10) - 10^(dBy/10)], almost didn't bother to do this

The F140HPII did manipulate case airflow (as doyll et al have mentioned elsewhere), despite fans controlled by CPU socket temp, which was usually ~60-61C at load. This was observed with trend towards lower VRM temperature (~1C) at higher RPM with the F140HP II at higher RPM in single fan configuration. In two fan configuration, it was further reduced. Two fan at max RPM also resulted in "Motherboard" temperature reduced by 1C. I am not sure if this is due to actual change in "case exhaust" flow from the fan change, or if the F140HP II fan wash is more directed to the other temp sensors.

As far as noise goes, for most of these configurations, if I attempted to move, or if the dog walked down the hall, the noise was thrown off, so had to take that measurement carefully. At 2x fan, full speed, this mattered less.

Qualitatively, for TY-147A noise, even at load it is largely dominated by case fan noise rather than the fan itself. The F140HP II can be heard over case fans a bit with some air noise at 70% that increases through 100%. With two fans, there was something of a hum noticeable at 100% PWM with the air noise.


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## doyll

Nice work!  

So at same speed similar noise and performance. Why are your chart temps 67.3c vs 66.3c (1c difference) but says 1.4c difference? 

Maximum cooling improvement is 2.5c being 4.5dB louder. 

Do you think the expense of PH-F140HP-II is worth it? 

If you could get a Ty-0143B (600-1800rpm) fan, would you use one of them instead of 2x PH-F140HP-II fans?


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## hazium233

doyll said:


> Nice work!
> 
> So at same speed similar noise and performance. Why are your chart temps 67.3c vs 66.3c (1c difference) but says 1.4c difference?
> 
> Maximum cooling improvement is 2.5c being 4.5dB louder.
> 
> Do you think the expense of PH-F140HP-II is worth it?
> 
> If you could get a Ty-0143B (600-1800rpm) fan, would you use one of them instead of 2x PH-F140HP-II fans?


Doh, that mistake should have been obvious to me. It looks like I subtracted from the peak* value instead of the average there.

I had been thinking I might change cases anyway and having spare decent 140s wouldn't hurt, since the only one I can think of that I was looking at with decent stock fans is the P600S. Even if I don't, I might pull the P12 and try to cram the 147A in the front panel with the SW3s.

I may have very well bought 143B or 143 instead of these, depending on price. I also almost just bought another TY-147A to test push-pull with them, but figured if I was going to bother I might as well get something with more RPM.

Since TY-147A is good quiet fan, I don't know that changing it makes sense at stock wattage so much unless you have a use for it elsewhere, especially if you value low noise more than best temps. I need to look at fixed core / voltage and see how much improvement there is because I had been dabbling in that.

Otherwise, the F140HP II generally seems to be a good value for what I paid for them.

* since I was running under Precision Boost, the clocks are not 100% consistent even with more or less fixed Prime load. The max Tdie peak can appear briefly in between the passes of the FFT in Prime, so it wasn't the case that this was trending up towards the end.


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## hazium233

The two fan config didn't blip as much (heatsink cooler I guess), but here is an example attached. But polling time might have something to do with it as well.

There are various things I would do differently if I was retesting these, but chief among them is inlet temp (need thermistor or thermometer). But I could have logged average clocks as well as a point of comparison.

Case fan speed is a bit confounding too, I didn't want to simply max them, but if the HP II were flowing more air out, they might have been better with a little more speed, at least on the top SW3 if nothing else.


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## Melcar

Received a notification from Amazon that TY-143 fans are back. Yay. Time to restock my fan box again hahaha. Still burned about that pair of TY-143's I got with the messed up PWM signal.


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## Memmento Mori

Dear all, happy to see the vital conversation here 

upgraded my case with Z490 MSI Godlike and 10900K but the pump of my corsair H115i started to ratling at 3000 RPM so i want to replace it by the true spirit 140 power or LGMRT. Space is not a problem as i have an Caselabs SM8 case...

What would you suggest ? 

I read a lot that the performance is almost identical between them so is there any other factor to make my choice?

Thank you in advanced for any constructive reply.

BR,
MM.


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## doyll

Memmento Mori said:


> Dear all, happy to see the vital conversation here
> 
> upgraded my case with Z490 MSI Godlike and 10900K but the pump of my corsair H115i started to ratling at 3000 RPM so i want to replace it by the true spirit 140 power or LGMRT. Space is not a problem as i have an Caselabs SM8 case...
> 
> What would you suggest ?
> 
> I read a lot that the performance is almost identical between them so is there any other factor to make my choice?
> 
> Thank you in advanced for any constructive reply.
> 
> BR,
> MM.


Normal price for TRUE Spirit 140 Power is $50 while Le Grand Macho RT is $80 with both having similar cooling and noise levels. TRUE Spirit 140 Power being $30 less with same performance makes it the winner in my book.

Just make sure you have at least 77.5mm from center CPU socket toward PCIe sockets because that's how far fins reach.


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## Memmento Mori

there is enough space, as the first socket is the M2 socket an then the first PCIe socket.... anyway have the GPU in the second PCIe socket as i figured out that the airflow and GPU and RAM temps are better.....

So then true spirit  lets see where I can buy it... Had the chance to install the LGMRT to my friends case as I gave him my old board and CPU and was very impressed by the cooler, better temps as on AIO (as it is 4 years old)... so looking forward to test the true spirit  (didnt found any test of it or LGMRT with the 10900K)...

Thanks for the advice and info...


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## doyll

Memmento Mori said:


> there is enough space, as the first socket is the M2 socket an then the first PCIe socket.... anyway have the GPU in the second PCIe socket as i figured out that the airflow and GPU and RAM temps are better.....
> 
> So then true spirit  lets see where I can buy it... Had the chance to install the LGMRT to my friends case as I gave him my old board and CPU and was very impressed by the cooler, better temps as on AIO (as it is 4 years old)... so looking forward to test the true spirit  (didnt found any test of it or LGMRT with the 10900K)...
> 
> Thanks for the advice and info...


Forgot to say you need 55mm from center CPU to near side of RAM for fan to fit on front of TRUE Spirit 140 Power. LGM RT fin pack is offset both to side and back for better PCIe and RAM clearance. 

I've tested and used both for long periods on i7-920 @ 4.3GHz and 6700 (not OC'ed) and all results are within a couple degrees, well within margin of error from variables like differences in seating pressure and how good/bad the CPU's IHS mates with cooler base. Lapping both CPU IHS and cooler bases would give 2 near perfectly flat surfaces for matching mating surfaces and thus same heat transfer for CPU to both coolers. That would eliminate most of heat transfer variables and give us more accurate results. But it's not something many users will do. I honestly think both cool basically the same with only difference being how well heat transfers from IHS to cooler base.


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## Owterspace

You really cant go wrong with either TS140P or LGMRT. I flip flop between the two every couple of months. For 50 bucks you really cant go wrong. I haven't used the stock fan on it for quite some time, I almost forget how it performs out of the box.. same with LGMRT. I do prefer my LGMRT because it has a nicer cold plate. There is another guy here who prefers his TS140P over his LGMRT for the same reason.. I thought for sure TS140P would have done better, but between the two they are like 3-5c apart, a little looser at the ragged edge of my CPUs capabilities on the OC front. I recommend TS140P every chance I get. Its still an awesome cooler. Kicks the **** out of a 212 for certain, and keeps up with my old D14.. I say that because I still have the hardware I ran with the D14 eons ago.


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## Memmento Mori

doyll said:


> Forgot to say you need 55mm from center CPU to near side of RAM for fan to fit on front of TRUE Spirit 140 Power. LGM RT fin pack is offset both to side and back for better PCIe and RAM clearance.
> 
> I've tested and used both for long periods on i7-920 @ 4.3GHz and 6700 (not OC'ed) and all results are within a couple degrees, well within margin of error from variables like differences in seating pressure and how good/bad the CPU's IHS mates with cooler base. Lapping both CPU IHS and cooler bases would give 2 near perfectly flat surfaces for matching mating surfaces and thus same heat transfer for CPU to both coolers. That would eliminate most of heat transfer variables and give us more accurate results. But it's not something many users will do. I honestly think both cool basically the same with only difference being how well heat transfers from IHS to cooler base.





Owterspace said:


> You really cant go wrong with either TS140P or LGMRT. I flip flop between the two every couple of months. For 50 bucks you really cant go wrong. I haven't used the stock fan on it for quite some time, I almost forget how it performs out of the box.. same with LGMRT. I do prefer my LGMRT because it has a nicer cold plate. There is another guy here who prefers his TS140P over his LGMRT for the same reason.. I thought for sure TS140P would have done better, but between the two they are like 3-5c apart, a little looser at the ragged edge of my CPUs capabilities on the OC front. I recommend TS140P every chance I get. Its still an awesome cooler. Kicks the **** out of a 212 for certain, and keeps up with my old D14.. I say that because I still have the hardware I ran with the D14 eons ago.


Thank you for sharing your experience and thoughts. I ordered the TS140power and really looking forward to see it in action.... Had the chance to test the LGM RT on a 6600K @ 4,6 Ghz and it just sit on 60-64 C after 2h aida 64 strestest. Like the sound of the fan and even on full speed it is rly quiet....

Thanks again and let you know after I had some playtime with it....

BTW - the true spirit 140 power for 53,45- EUR shipped is a damn good deal for the performance you get (as you stated the performance is almost identical with the LGM RT)....


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## doyll

What *Owterspace* said. 

NH-D14 is ever so slightly warmer than original Silver Arrow. We tested D14, TRUE Spirit 140 Power and Ultra 120 Copper and TS140P was only 3c better than D14 with 2x TY-143 @ 2500rpm (2c @ 1200rpm / 1.95c @ 2500rpm w/ 1x fan / 2.9c @ 1200rpm 2/ 1x fan). Ed Hume's testing of NH-D14 against NH-D14 with same fans showed D14 to cool the same. Other reviews have shown Le Grand Macho RT to cools same as D15. So if anything TRUE Spirit 140 Power is a little better than the rest. Again, problem is heat transfer from CPU chip through IHS into cooler base. IHS to cooler mating is key to optimal heat transfer.


----------



## Memmento Mori

doyll said:


> What *Owterspace* said.
> 
> NH-D14 is ever so slightly warmer than original Silver Arrow. We tested D14, TRUE Spirit 140 Power and Ultra 120 Copper and TS140P was only 3c better than D14 with 2x TY-143 @ 2500rpm (2c @ 1200rpm / 1.95c @ 2500rpm w/ 1x fan / 2.9c @ 1200rpm 2/ 1x fan). Ed Hume's testing of NH-D14 against NH-D14 with same fans showed D14 to cool the same. Other reviews have shown Le Grand Macho RT to cools same as D15. So if anything TRUE Spirit 140 Power is a little better than the rest. Again, problem is heat transfer from CPU chip through IHS into cooler base. IHS to cooler mating is key to optimal heat transfer.


Thank you very much for the information's and advice.
Well when i replace the cooler i will also take out the CPU and test if the IHS is flat or not, and will take a closer look on the TIM footprint on the IHS..... Was also playing with the idea to delid it and also to replace the IHS for a pure copper one, but dont see that much improvement from it and want to test first the temps with the TS140P and manually OC it, maybee i find a lover voltage to go with ( low power = low heat).....


----------



## FeikoWielsma

Hi! I've had a TS140P for quite some years now, and I was wondering which air coolers, if any, are an upgrade.
I lost the fan clips, so I can't really add an extra fan, but I did buy a TLD14S from US $24.15 31% OFF|Thermalright TL D14 Non standard 140mm Computer Case CPU Cooling fan RGB PWM Quiet S FDB Bearing Industrial grade fan|Fans & Cooling| - AliExpress. This looks the same as the stock TR-TY147 fan that came with it, but with added RGB and more max RPM. It seems a bit louder/hotter though, so will probably change it back.

Would a Le Grand Macho RT be an upgrade? I like the offset it has, so I can still see my RGB ram (I quite like rainbow puke...)


----------



## doyll

FeikoWielsma said:


> Hi! I've had a TS140P for quite some years now, and I was wondering which air coolers, if any, are an upgrade.
> I lost the fan clips, so I can't really add an extra fan, but I did buy a TLD14S from US $24.15 31% OFF|Thermalright TL D14 Non standard 140mm Computer Case CPU Cooling fan RGB PWM Quiet S FDB Bearing Industrial grade fan|Fans & Cooling| - AliExpress. This looks the same as the stock TR-TY147 fan that came with it, but with added RGB and more max RPM. It seems a bit louder/hotter though, so will probably change it back.
> 
> Would a Le Grand Macho RT be an upgrade? I like the offset it has, so I can still see my RGB ram (I quite like rainbow puke...)


If you read my last few posts you will see TRUE Spirit 140 Power is as good or better than others if same fan is used. Only reason for differences in cooling is CPU IHS to cooler base contact and resulting heat transfer rate. 

I'm surprised TL-D14S is not performing a little better than stock TY-147A. Maybe your case airflow is not now flowing the extra air that TL-D14's higher speed is moving. This could easily change air temp entering cooler a few degrees. And every degree warmer air is entering cooler become same degrees higher CPU temps will be. 

In other words, if your case fans are running same speeds and flowing same amount of air to both TY-147A and TL-D14 and TL-D14 is running 100-200rpm faster then air entering cooler warmer, and this warmer air entering cooler is causing your CPU temps to also be a little warmer.


----------



## FeikoWielsma

doyll said:


> If you read my last few posts you will see TRUE Spirit 140 Power is as good or better than others if same fan is used. Only reason for differences in cooling is CPU IHS to cooler base contact and resulting heat transfer rate.
> 
> I'm surprised TL-D14S is not performing a little better than stock TY-147A. Maybe your case airflow is not now flowing the extra air that TL-D14's higher speed is moving. This could easily change air temp entering cooler a few degrees. And every degree warmer air is entering cooler become same degrees higher CPU temps will be.
> 
> In other words, if your case fans are running same speeds and flowing same amount of air to both TY-147A and TL-D14 and TL-D14 is running 100-200rpm faster then air entering cooler warmer, and this warmer air entering cooler is causing your CPU temps to also be a little warmer.


It seems that my CPU (Ryzen 5 3600) now refuses to get under 45c, no matter if I put all my fans on 100% or not. This leans me toward me ****ing up the mounting pressure or something like that (even though I only switched the fan). With the stock fan it would atleast fall under 40c in idle once in a while.

I have a BeQuiet 500DX with 2x140mm front intake, 2x140mm rear and top-back exhaust, so I don't think airflow should be an issue in general.
I think I'll just keep the TS140P + RGB fan for now and try a repaste with some Kryonaut later! Thanks for the help!


----------



## doyll

FeikoWielsma said:


> It seems that my CPU (Ryzen 5 3600) now refuses to get under 45c, no matter if I put all my fans on 100% or not. This leans me toward me ****ing up the mounting pressure or something like that (even though I only switched the fan). With the stock fan it would atleast fall under 40c in idle once in a while.
> 
> I have a BeQuiet 500DX with 2x140mm front intake, 2x140mm rear and top-back exhaust, so I don't think airflow should be an issue in general.
> I think I'll just keep the TS140P + RGB fan for now and try a repaste with some Kryonaut later! Thanks for the help!


Dismount, clean and re-paste is good first step. 
But 500DX case comes with Pure Wings 2 fans that have very low pressure rating ,so can't overcome grill and filler resistance and move even close to as much air as cooler fan does. Even at full speed PW2 might at best be able to move about as much as Ty-14x / DL-T14 does at half speed. Airflow is result of higher pressure air moving into lower pressure air .. they higher the pressure differential the more/faster air flows. PW2 pressure rating is only 0.58mm H2O at 900rpm (full speed), so barely enough airflow for low load applications when running full speed (about same as cooler fans move at 1/3rd to 1/2 speed). If system is working hard, especially if CPU is higher wattage and/or GPU is also working hard and/or in summer ambient air temps it's definitely not going to be enough airflow. Case fans need to move a little more air than cooler fans so case airflow is moving component heated exhaust airflow on back and out of case without it mixing with cool intake airflow. 

In my experience it takes about twice that to move decent amounts of air; 
0.50mm @ 600rpm is good at low load,​[email protected] 700rpm is decent airflow and still silent,​1.0mm H2O @ 900rpm gives good airflow and almost no noise,​1.3mm H2O @ 1100rpm moves much more air but is also louder.​That's about the pressure rating / airflow of PH-F140MP, TY-147A/147B & Silent Wings 3 140mm high speed fans.


----------



## Memmento Mori

So finally got the TS140P delivered, installed and had some time to play with it. The results are awesome!


System:
MB: MSI Z490 Godlike
CPU: i9 10900K
RAM: 4x G Skill F4-3200C14-GTRS 8 GB DDR4-3200
Case: CaseLabs SM8
Fans: intake 3x NB Eloop 120mm, exhaust 1x NB Eloop 120mm, ventilated top


CPU cooler:
Before: corsair h115i with 2x NB Eloops 140mm placed as TOP intake
Now: TS140P with stock fan


With automatic OC to 5,2 Ghz on 1,385 V, 1h Aida64 stress test at ambient ca.25 degrees result:

H115i: 97-100 degrees and 14% - 22% of CPU throttling
TS140P: 92-100 degrees and 2% - 8% of CPU throttling

To be honest I didn’t expected a big difference like this…


Both coolers run the same speed @ 1200 rpm, same TIM - thermal grizzly kryonaut (only difference on H115i was the TIM applied almost 3 months sooner and TS140P was tested with a “fresh” application, what I believe makes no difference in the temps).

Now I played a bit with the OC and got 5,1 Ghz all core fixed / 4,8 Ghz ring with 1,265v LLC3. Max temp after 1h Aida64 was on 1 core 94 degrees but overall sitting at 88-90 degrees 0% CPU throttling. And gaming went from 65-76 degrees to 52-65 degrees…. Will explore more the possibilities but happy with it…

@ doyll – you really need 5,5 cm from CPU to RAM, the fan is a bit pushing toward the first slot but it is just 1 mm so it is ok and working, will maybe brush the fan so it fits perfectly…..

Once again thanks for the recommendation....Hope it helps someone to decide on the right cooling solution….

I noticed that there is no posibility to buy any TY-147A and TL-D14. Just on aliexpress are the TL-D14 but RGB i would like to have it in black and push/pull config... Any advice where to find them?

Thanks for any info...

BR,
MM


----------



## Owterspace

5.1 air cooled is pretty decent! Temps look ok too. Id hit it.


----------



## doyll

Nice improvement in temp / performance!!
I wonder if we can get it even lower? What case and case fan setup are you using, and how long does it take CPU to reach max temp? I ask because if air it being warmed even a few degrees above room temp, than CPU will also be same number of degrees hotter. If room is 23c and air entering cooler is 33c with CPU 100c and we lower air temp entering cooler to 25c (2c increase is good) CPU will be 92c .. 8c cooler. In your case (no pun) 8c cooler is a big difference! My builds all reach max temp with both CPU & GPU at full load in 2-3 minutes, and go back to idle temp in same length of time when load drops to idle. 

Link below to basic guide about how airflow works and how to optimize case airflow might be of interest. 








* * Ways to Better Cooling; Airflow, Cooler & Fan...


Got tired of posting instructions and guides over and over and over, so decided to start a thread for them. Please do not post unnecessarily as it will make it harder for others to find what they are looking for. This thread is not for opinions of the data or tutorials. If you have questions...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Memmento Mori

Owterspace said:


> 5.1 air cooled is pretty decent! Temps look ok too. Id hit it.


yes  happy with it... as I dont use just in strestests the whole capacity of the cpu the temps are rly nice...



doyll said:


> Nice improvement in temp / performance!!
> I wonder if we can get it even lower? What case and case fan setup are you using, and how long does it take CPU to reach max temp? I ask because if air it being warmed even a few degrees above room temp, than CPU will also be same number of degrees hotter. If room is 23c and air entering cooler is 33c with CPU 100c and we lower air temp entering cooler to 25c (2c increase is good) CPU will be 92c .. 8c cooler. In your case (no pun) 8c cooler is a big difference! My builds all reach max temp with both CPU & GPU at full load in 2-3 minutes, and go back to idle temp in same length of time when load drops to idle.
> 
> Link below to basic guide about how airflow works and how to optimize case airflow might be of interest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * * Ways to Better Cooling; Airflow, Cooler & Fan...
> 
> 
> Got tired of posting instructions and guides over and over and over, so decided to start a thread for them. Please do not post unnecessarily as it will make it harder for others to find what they are looking for. This thread is not for opinions of the data or tutorials. If you have questions...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


I would like to push it even lover but dont want to have it too noisy....

Case: CaseLabs SM8
Fans: intake 3x NB Eloop 120mm (820 RPM normal /1060 RPM under stress), exhaust 1x NB Eloop (120mm 1100 RPM normal/1600 RPM stress), ventilated top..
Im not using any dust filters on front is just the grill, exhaust I cut out the grill so no restriction there. Next also the GPU is in the second PCIE slot so there is more space between GPU and CPU cooler. Nothing is blocking the airflow inside the case no cables no HDD....

well there is not much to improve, was thinking to buy 2 x TL-D14 to have a push pull config and higher speed but just on the CPU cooler as I dont hear it that much... Would be 1x 120mm fan on the top behind the CPU cooler make a big difference? The top is anyway ventilated ....

But would be happy for any advice to push the temps more down.... 

Thanks in advanced.

BR,
MM


----------



## doyll

Memmento Mori said:


> I would like to push it even lover but dont want to have it too noisy....
> 
> Case: CaseLabs SM8
> Fans: intake 3x NB Eloop 120mm (820 RPM normal /1060 RPM under stress), exhaust 1x NB Eloop (120mm 1100 RPM normal/1600 RPM stress), ventilated top..
> Im not using any dust filters on front is just the grill, exhaust I cut out the grill so no restriction there. Next also the GPU is in the second PCIE slot so there is more space between GPU and CPU cooler. Nothing is blocking the airflow inside the case no cables no HDD....
> 
> well there is not much to improve, was thinking to buy 2 x TL-D14 to have a push pull config and higher speed but just on the CPU cooler as I dont hear it that much... Would be 1x 120mm fan on the top behind the CPU cooler make a big difference? The top is anyway ventilated ....
> 
> But would be happy for any advice to push the temps more down....
> 
> Thanks in advanced.
> 
> BR,
> MM


Number of fans increase noise levels, so the fewer fans used the quieter it will be. But it's a tradeoff. Without enough fans temps go up. 
# of . dB​fans increase​1 . . 0dB​2 . . 3.0dB​3 . . 4.8dB​4 . . 6.0dB​5 . . 7.0dB​6 . . 7.8dB​7 . . 8.5dB​8 . . 9.0dB​9 . . 9.5dB​10 . 10.0dB​11 . 10.8dB​12 . 12.0dB​20 . 13.0dB​Above is just bare fan. Add in airflow noise through grill, etc. and it's goes up even more. 

Most of below I think I've told you before as well as suggesting you read and use case airflow guide linked below:








* * Ways to Better Cooling; Airflow, Cooler & Fan...


Got tired of posting instructions and guides over and over and over, so decided to start a thread for them. Please do not post unnecessarily as it will make it harder for others to find what they are looking for. This thread is not for opinions of the data or tutorials. If you have questions...




www.overclock.net





If you haven't already removed PCIe back slot covers, I would do so. 

Exhaust fan is likely not helping temps, but does make noise. Try unplugging it and see if temps change. 

I haven't use an exhaust fan in a build in so long I can't remember when I last did. 

Using remote sensor thermometer like cheap indoor/outdoor remote sensor similar to one at end of above link to monitor air temp entering coolers is best way to see how well case airflow is working. Often changing intake or cooler fan speed 50-100rpm to increase / decrease case airflow to component airflow ratio can change temps a few degrees. But it takes time to do, so I monitor and adjust while doing other things, then set them in Bios once curves are the way I want them.


----------



## Memmento Mori

doyll said:


> Number of fans increase noise levels, so the fewer fans used the quieter it will be. But it's a tradeoff. Without enough fans temps go up.
> # of . dB​fans increase​1 . . 0dB​2 . . 3.0dB​3 . . 4.8dB​4 . . 6.0dB​5 . . 7.0dB​6 . . 7.8dB​7 . . 8.5dB​8 . . 9.0dB​9 . . 9.5dB​10 . 10.0dB​11 . 10.8dB​12 . 12.0dB​20 . 13.0dB​Above is just bare fan. Add in airflow noise through grill, etc. and it's goes up even more.
> 
> Most of below I think I've told you before as well as suggesting you read and use case airflow guide linked below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * * Ways to Better Cooling; Airflow, Cooler & Fan...
> 
> 
> Got tired of posting instructions and guides over and over and over, so decided to start a thread for them. Please do not post unnecessarily as it will make it harder for others to find what they are looking for. This thread is not for opinions of the data or tutorials. If you have questions...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you haven't already removed PCIe back slot covers, I would do so.
> 
> Exhaust fan is likely not helping temps, but does make noise. Try unplugging it and see if temps change.
> 
> I haven't use an exhaust fan in a build in so long I can't remember when I last did.
> 
> Using remote sensor thermometer like cheap indoor/outdoor remote sensor similar to one at end of above link to monitor air temp entering coolers is best way to see how well case airflow is working. Often changing intake or cooler fan speed 50-100rpm to increase / decrease case airflow to component airflow ratio can change temps a few degrees. But it takes time to do, so I monitor and adjust while doing other things, then set them in Bios once curves are the way I want them.



well than I would say lets make some experiments and see the results.... Have an Aquaero LT which came also with 4 thermal sensors, will place them tomorrow if possible. 

Positions would be:
1 x in front of the case intake fan
1 x in front of the CPU fan 
1 x in front of the exhaust fan. 

Would try more scenarios with/without exhaust fan and couple speeds so we have a better picture... Only question is the time frame of each test. 1h or can it be shorter? Any suggestion? I thing that after 30 min. there shouldn't be any big temperature differences...


----------



## JackCY

Memmento Mori said:


> So finally got the TS140P delivered, installed and had some time to play with it. The results are awesome!
> 
> 
> System:
> MB: MSI Z490 Godlike
> CPU: i9 10900K
> RAM: 4x G Skill F4-3200C14-GTRS 8 GB DDR4-3200
> Case: CaseLabs SM8
> Fans: intake 3x NB Eloop 120mm, exhaust 1x NB Eloop 120mm, ventilated top
> 
> 
> CPU cooler:
> Before: corsair h115i with 2x NB Eloops 140mm placed as TOP intake
> Now: TS140P with stock fan
> 
> 
> With automatic OC to 5,2 Ghz on 1,385 V, 1h Aida64 stress test at ambient ca.25 degrees result:
> 
> H115i: 97-100 degrees and 14% - 22% of CPU throttling
> TS140P: 92-100 degrees and 2% - 8% of CPU throttling
> 
> To be honest I didn’t expected a big difference like this…
> 
> 
> Both coolers run the same speed @ 1200 rpm, same TIM - thermal grizzly kryonaut (only difference on H115i was the TIM applied almost 3 months sooner and TS140P was tested with a “fresh” application, what I believe makes no difference in the temps).
> 
> Now I played a bit with the OC and got 5,1 Ghz all core fixed / 4,8 Ghz ring with 1,265v LLC3. Max temp after 1h Aida64 was on 1 core 94 degrees but overall sitting at 88-90 degrees 0% CPU throttling. And gaming went from 65-76 degrees to 52-65 degrees…. Will explore more the possibilities but happy with it…
> 
> @ doyll – you really need 5,5 cm from CPU to RAM, the fan is a bit pushing toward the first slot but it is just 1 mm so it is ok and working, will maybe brush the fan so it fits perfectly…..
> 
> Once again thanks for the recommendation....Hope it helps someone to decide on the right cooling solution….
> 
> I noticed that there is no posibility to buy any TY-147A and TL-D14. Just on aliexpress are the TL-D14 but RGB i would like to have it in black and push/pull config... Any advice where to find them?
> 
> Thanks for any info...
> 
> BR,
> MM


I would not bother getting TR fans, at least not the <1500 rpm ones that most of the coolers come with.
Once the one on my Macho bites the dust or gets super noisy I will replace it with Arctic P14 PWM.

The TS140P is nice, if you can get it, fit it and it actually has somewhat flat contact base. I wouldn't exactly call my Macho flat, that's kind of OK for old Intel with one center chip but not so much for modern multi chip CPUs if you don't want to lap everything.


----------



## 2600ryzen

I would close off at least the 1st half of the ventilated top, if it has a mesh filter just put a piece of paper under the first 3/4(positive pressure can push some of your intake out the top before it even gets to the cpu). Can you move the gpu to the top pcie slot? This will let intake get underneath it easier.


----------



## doyll

Memmento Mori said:


> well than I would say lets make some experiments and see the results.... Have an Aquaero LT which came also with 4 thermal sensors, will place them tomorrow if possible.
> 
> Positions would be:
> 1 x in front of the case intake fan
> 1 x in front of the CPU fan
> 1 x in front of the exhaust fan.
> 
> Would try more scenarios with/without exhaust fan and couple speeds so we have a better picture... Only question is the time frame of each test. 1h or can it be shorter? Any suggestion? I thing that after 30 min. there shouldn't be any big temperature differences...


Run test about 5 minutes more after temps stabilize. 
Sometimes air temp ratio will change as case and cooler fans cycle with load and component temp changes, so always good to kinda monitor air temp in normal use as well as extreme conditions.
Sometimes it's fun to see what it is, but I don't normally monitor exhaust temp. Normally monitor air temp to (over if component has no fan) to compare to component temp.


----------



## Memmento Mori

So here are some pictures of my case, layout and sensor position (4x - case intake, CPU cooler intake, Exhaust intake and GPU intake)







































Next post will post the scenarios and results...


----------



## Memmento Mori

For a better understanding how I proceeded during the tests and scenarios please bear in mind the following information's:

1, scenario 1-3 where made without any restart, which means that i made the test of the original setup took the print-screens, let the system cool down - stabilized the temperatures and prepared the next scenario. After all was prepared went through the next scenario...
2, difference of the case intake temps (or ambient temps) are caused to the fact that I had open a window slightly, as the room where i have my PC is small (2*3m) and the PC is able to change the temp by 5 degrees easily, but in my opinion the difference between the scenarios is not that high in ambient
3, Im not a scientist, just hobby explorer  so if I made somewhere any mistake in the procedure or scenarios just let me know or point it out will do my best for the next time  
4, for stability purpose i had to adjust the Vcore from 1,265v to 1,275v in bios....


Scenario Nr1. : 
3x Intake fans with ca. 1070 RPM
1x CPU cooler fan with ca. 1235 RPM
1x Exhaust fan with ca. 1579 RPM
Ventilated top (no fan, no filter just the top grill)

No load temps:







After 45 min load Temps:








Scenario Nr2. : 
3x Intake fans with ca. 1067 RPM
1x CPU cooler fan with ca. 1230 RPM
1x Exhaust fan with ca. 1587 RPM
3/4 covered top (used a piece of carton)

No load temps:







After 45 min load Temps:








Scenario Nr3. : 
3x Intake fans with ca. 1205 RPM
1x CPU cooler fan with ca. 1230 RPM
1x Exhaust fan with ca. 1581 RPM
Ventilated top (no fan, no filter just the top grill)

No load temps:







After 45 min load Temps:








Scenario Nr4. : 
3x Intake fans with ca. 1065 RPM
1x CPU cooler fan with ca. 1234 RPM
NO Exhaust fan (took it completely out, there is also no grill as I cut it out also)
Ventilated top (no fan, no filter just the top grill)

No load temps:







After 45 min load Temps:









Based on the results and the feeling of the noise lvl i would say that the first scenario is the way to go. But would be glad for any improvement advice I can get. 

Please share your thoughts.

Thank you.

BR,
MM.


----------



## 2600ryzen

N3 looks best but that's just cause the intakes are faster. They all look to be good results though, what test3 does show is the gpu benefits a lot from more air. You could acheive the same affect as faster intakes by putting a piece of cardboard on top of the gpu shroud to the front of the case to channel more air through the gpu at lower rpm's. 
Resticting the rear exhaust holes would also force more air through the gpu and empty pcie slots, but only if you don't run an exhaust fan and probably at the cost of cpu temps.


----------



## doyll

Interesting data. Everything is good except maybe noise level. 
I'm guessing in normal use you are not 100% load so fans are 2-300rpm slow and quiet? 
1000-1100rpm is as loud as I want, but probably can't slow fans that much without throttling. 

Thanks for doing this!


----------



## Memmento Mori

2600ryzen said:


> N3 looks best but that's just cause the intakes are faster. They all look to be good results though, what test3 does show is the gpu benefits a lot from more air. You could acheive the same affect as faster intakes by putting a piece of cardboard on top of the gpu shroud to the front of the case to channel more air through the gpu at lower rpm's.
> Resticting the rear exhaust holes would also force more air through the gpu and empty pcie slots, but only if you don't run an exhaust fan and probably at the cost of cpu temps.


well my GPU is happy as never before this actual temperatures are bellow 4-6 degrees i had normally, so the GPU is not an issue for me. The main focus is for me the CPU  And yes each separated input of cold air for each device would be ideal but this way it is an compromise to all aspects (temps, visual side and fact that its a system of more components  )




doyll said:


> Interesting data. Everything is good except maybe noise level.
> I'm guessing in normal use you are not 100% load so fans are 2-300rpm slow and quiet?
> 1000-1100rpm is as loud as I want, but probably can't slow fans that much without throttling.
> 
> Thanks for doing this!



Yes the outcome is interesting. Regarding the RPM/ noise under not extreme conditions - yes all vents are slower and the usual speeds you can see at the "no load temps", this are the temps which are set up when the system has low workloads or idle. to be honest I have to set up the fan curves properly as the CPU is changing the temperatures quickly which is causing that also the fans are hovering all the time 100-150 RPM slower/faster. Even 2% of workload difference to the CPU changes the temp instantly by 5-10 degrees  so its a bit annoying from the noise/sound perspective  

Need to try also lover RPM on the case intake fans, to see what would be the result and difference, as the intake fans are the loudest one. Thanks to the grill and fans im using (NB Eloops) it has a sound like the propeller of an small Spitfire  

The only thing to improve the CPU temps i thing would be to install an second fan on the CPU cooler to have push/pull and maybe 1 x top exhaust fan basically over the CPU cooler. But dont have the right fans atm so will test it in future....


----------



## 2600ryzen

Maybe a fan between the side panel and the back of the motherboard cpu cutout if you have clearance. No matter how much case flow I have I can't stop heat building up in this area, I guess it absorbs 10-20% of the heat generated by the cpu and probably a higher percentage during idle. Another fan on your heatsink in pull config would probably improve temps by 2-3c which is reasonable but I suspect a fan on the back of the motherboard might also improve temps by that much at lower rpm's.


----------



## 2600ryzen

2600ryzen said:


> Maybe a fan between the side panel and the back of the motherboard cpu cutout if you have clearance.


Don't do this I just tried it with a 120mm fan running at 5v(I guess that's around 600-700rpm because that's about what the fan runs at 42% DC power in bios). Didn't seem to make any difference, maybe 1c at most. Possible I mounted the fan in the wrong location for maximum pressure over the back of the cpu socket but yeah I'd give up on this idea.


----------



## doyll

We used to mount fans behind motherboard CPU hole and get lower temps. Haven't done it in many years now.


----------



## 2600ryzen

doyll said:


> We used to mount fans behind motherboard CPU hole and get lower temps. Haven't done it in many years now.


Yeah I was expecting it to work about as well as removing the backplate for gpu's works(people seem to see a reasonable improvement in gpu temps doing this). But it did nothing. very disappointing.


----------



## Owterspace

That's old school. By old I mean running 2.4v+ on your cpu. It might help if it was on a bench, running big volts with a big copper pot on top.


----------



## Stealth3si

Does anyone know if standard square-framed 120mm fans are compatible with the fan clips? Am considering using them for an ARGB setup.


----------



## doyll

Stealth3si said:


> Does anyone know if standard square-framed 120mm fans are compatible with the fan clips? Am considering using them for an ARGB setup.


There is no such thing as a "standard square-framed 120mm fan". Biggest difference is some have solid webs between sides where mounting holes are and some do not.

You can use same fan clips for 120mm fans with same kind of mounting holes. Just make sure they are the same.

Cooler is designed for the airflow pattern out of 140mm fan, not 120mm, so don't expect cooling and noise levels to be as good with 120mm fan as with stock 140mm fan.


----------



## ciarlatano

doyll said:


> Cooler is designed for the airflow pattern out of 140mm fan, not 120mm, so don't expect cooling and noise levels to be as good with 120mm fan as with stock 140mm fan.


He wants argeebee and is having trouble finding a 140mm with 120mm mounting holes - Looking for O-shaped CPU cooler ARGB fans for...


----------



## Stealth3si

doyll said:


> There is no such thing as a "standard square-framed 120mm fan". Biggest difference is some have solid webs between sides where mounting holes are and some do not.
> 
> You can use same fan clips for 120mm fans with same kind of mounting holes. Just make sure they are the same.
> 
> Cooler is designed for the airflow pattern out of 140mm fan, not 120mm, so don't expect cooling and noise levels to be as good with 120mm fan as with stock 140mm fan.


Ah, gotcha. GTK.

I know there will be a reduction in cooling performance with 120mm fans, I just hope it won't be become an issue. With decent 120mm fans, I would expect a 5 +/- degree increase in temps while gaming which are already relatively decent (mid 40s - mid 50s) and have given me no problems with a 143-push/147A-pull.


----------



## Owterspace

I had to jump on Ali to check out the RGB Thermalright fans lol. I actually considered getting a pair.. at 77cfm they are a little better than TY-147A+B even if just slightly.. according to those specs anyways.. I plan on trying my TS140P and LGMRT on my new CPU in the hopes that I don't have to buy another cooler lol. Just waiting on a mount. Seems weird that Thermalright made an AMD only cooler.


----------



## doyll

Fan Speed : 300 – 1300 rpm (PWM)
Sound Level : 15 – 21 dB(A)
Airflow : 16.9 – 73.6 CFM 



ciarlatano said:


> He wants argeebee and is having trouble finding a 140mm with 120mm mounting holes - Looking for O-shaped CPU cooler ARGB fans for...


Indeed, and I explained the difference in mounting and airflow. While adds lighting "Agreegbee" doesn't change anything but looks, but using 120mm fan instead of round 140mm definably changes airflow pattern.

Strange, I see "agreebee" all the time and assume it is RGB lighting, but google doesn't have a single hit for definition of the word. 



Stealth3si said:


> Ah, gotcha. GTK.
> I know there will be a reduction in cooling performance with 120mm fans, I just hope it won't be become an issue. With decent 120mm fans, I would expect a 5 +/- degree increase in temps while gaming which are already relatively decent (mid 40s - mid 50s) and have given me no problems with a 143-push/147A-pull.


Using TY-143 push with TY-147A pull probably performs worse than just TY-143. Reason is obviousy TY-147A is being forced to spin faster by the much higher airflow TY-143 is pushing into to. Might be able to unplug it and see no change in it's speed or system temps. It's about the same as putting a greyhound and a dachshund on each end of a leash and having them race after the rabbit.  Greyhound won't be able to chase rabbit as fast as it could by itself. 

I think I would do what *Dogzilla07* suggested in your thread, order Thermalright TL-D14S ARGB from Aliexpress or other site that sell them internationally.


----------



## Stealth3si

doyll said:


> Fan Speed : 300 – 1300 rpm (PWM)
> Sound Level : 15 – 21 dB(A)
> Airflow : 16.9 – 73.6 CFM
> 
> 
> Indeed, and I explained the difference in mounting and airflow. While adds lighting "Agreegbee" doesn't change anything but looks, but using 120mm fan instead of round 140mm definably changes airflow pattern.
> 
> Strange, I see "agreebee" all the time and assume it is RGB lighting, but google doesn't have a single hit for definition of the word.
> 
> 
> Using TY-143 push with TY-147A pull probably performs worse than just TY-143. Reason is obviousy TY-147A is being forced to spin faster by the much higher airflow TY-143 is pushing into to. Might be able to unplug it and see no change in it's speed or system temps. It's about the same as putting a greyhound and a dachshund on each end of a leash and having them race after the rabbit.  Greyhound won't be able to chase rabbit as fast as it could by itself.
> 
> I think I would do what *Dogzilla07* suggested in your thread, order Thermalright TL-D14S ARGB from Aliexpress or other site that sell them internationally.


Perhaps.

The one on Aliexpress or international shipping takes almost 2 months to arrive.

Instead I think I will use a pair of the same 140mm like a Cooler Master SickleFlow 140 V2 ARGB 67 CFM 2.25 mmH2O and monitor temps. Granted, sacrificing performance for aesthetics is generally frowned upon, but TBH, 143 might be a bit overkill for what I normally do.


----------



## Owterspace

Does anyone really need a 143? Great fan don’t get me wrong but.. 130cfm might be overkill.

omg what is happening to me?


----------



## doyll

Stealth3si said:


> Perhaps.
> 
> The one on Aliexpress or international shipping takes almost 2 months to arrive.
> 
> Instead I think I will use a pair of the same 140mm like a Cooler Master SickleFlow 140 V2 ARGB 67 CFM 2.25 mmH2O and monitor temps. Granted, sacrificing performance for aesthetics is generally frowned upon, but TBH, 143 might be a bit overkill for what I normally do.


Is instant gratification that big a deal to you? So what if it take 2 months? Sorry, I shouldn't jump on you like that, but honestly, the "2 months" is maximum before they send a replacement. It's for the rare times something delays delivery so they don't end up sending buyer 2 for the price of one. I often order from Asia and delivery is usually 10 days to 3 weeks, never 2 months. I'm in UK so it might be a little different, but most of these things now go air freight. Even by ship it's only a couple weeks agt sea. System is working now and it will work better with right fan, but it's your choice.

Indeed, TY-143 is overkill, although I did OC my old i7 920 hard enough to use their airflow.  TY-147A 1300rpm does the job fine for me because I don't want the noise fans / airflow create above about 1100-1200rpm. New 1500rpm (like TL14 ARGB, TY-149A) give us even more overhead for high heat, but also more noise but might help in extremely high summer temps on those rare occasions we need to do some rendering. Next speed range is up to 1800rpm and that's way faster / noisier than I normally use .. if run at high speed. I used TY-143 for years on red PH-TC14PE and never ran them above 1200rpm. Well, for shock & awe I would turn off all fans for about 5 minutes when rendering (90-100% load) to build temps to 75c then turn fans back on to show people how loud and fast things cooled back down (about 1 minute with about 1 more for last 200rpm drop).


----------



## ciarlatano

doyll said:


> Is instant gratification that big a deal to you?


Context, @doyll, context. You are asking this in regard to a fan change being done for the sake of the lights on the fan, with the poster willing to take a performance hit for the sake of lights on the fan. You asked a question that was already answered. While you or I may not understand the rationale behind it, it exists and needs to be considered in the response.


----------



## doyll

Bling is king. 
We used to day "If it don't go, add more racing stickers."


----------



## Stealth3si

doyll said:


> Is instant gratification that big a deal to you? So what if it take 2 months? Sorry, I shouldn't jump on you like that, but honestly, the "2 months" is maximum before they send a replacement. It's for the rare times something delays delivery so they don't end up sending buyer 2 for the price of one. I often order from Asia and delivery is usually 10 days to 3 weeks, never 2 months. I'm in UK so it might be a little different, but most of these things now go air freight. Even by ship it's only a couple weeks agt sea. System is working now and it will work better with right fan, but it's your choice.
> 
> Indeed, TY-143 is overkill, although I did OC my old i7 920 hard enough to use their airflow.  TY-147A 1300rpm does the job fine for me because I don't want the noise fans / airflow create above about 1100-1200rpm. New 1500rpm (like TL14 ARGB, TY-149A) give us even more overhead for high heat, but also more noise but might help in extremely high summer temps on those rare occasions we need to do some rendering. Next speed range is up to 1800rpm and that's way faster / noisier than I normally use .. if run at high speed. I used TY-143 for years on red PH-TC14PE and never ran them above 1200rpm. Well, for shock & awe I would turn off all fans for about 5 minutes when rendering (90-100% load) to build temps to 75c then turn fans back on to show people how loud and fast things cooled back down (about 1 minute with about 1 more for last 200rpm drop).


no worries, the one from aliexpress is my next option if what I am about to do does not work out.


----------



## doyll

Stealth3si said:


> no worries, the one from aliexpress is my next option if what I am about to do does not work out.


It will probably be just fine, just not as cool and quiet as it would be with Thermalright fan.


----------



## Raggie

Hey guys, anyone knows where I could order an AM4 mounting kit for my T.S.140 Power nowadays? Is there any internationally shipping webshop that sells them? Or should I try and contact Thermalright directly?


----------



## Dogzilla07

JTC :: A működő gépes kapcsolat :: is the Hungarian distributor, contact them to see if they can help you, if not, aliexpress or Thermalright directly. Or as a last resort use a taobao/jd forwarding service/agent like superbuy.


----------



## Raggie

Dogzilla07 said:


> JTC :: A működő gépes kapcsolat :: is the Hungarian distributor, contact them to see if they can help you, if not, aliexpress or Thermalright directly. Or as a last resort use a taobao/jd forwarding service/agent like superbuy.


Thanks mate! I will try these channels!


----------



## Owterspace

I tried contacting Thermalright, they don't like Canadians right now. I ended up buying the Bolt Though Kit from Amazon. I just needed one little AMD plastic washer for the mount lol. I now have a mount for my Ultra 120 Extreme that I can put on almost anything now should I ever decide to lol. It just occurred to me I can now throw away my 212 Evo. Kept it around "just in case".. now I don't need to.. turned out to be a good day after all.


----------



## doyll

Owterspace said:


> I tried contacting Thermalright, they don't like Canadians right now. I ended up buying the Bolt Though Kit from Amazon. I just needed one little AMD plastic washer for the mount lol. I now have a mount for my Ultra 120 Extreme that I can put on almost anything now should I ever decide to lol. It just occurred to me I can now throw away my 212 Evo. Kept it around "just in case".. now I don't need to.. turned out to be a good day after all.


I really wish Thermalright did better customer support, but sadly they do not. Great news about Ultra 120 Extreme mount! I think Ultra 120/Exreme mount works on all thick based Themalright coolers .. or at least most of them.


----------



## Owterspace

Initially upon first contact with them my experience was very positive. But when I actually needed something.. like that little plastic washer for the mount.. they weren't there. I got my mount from Amazon.com, so Nans.. My TS140P didn't come with the AM4 back plate, so if I ever need to use it on an AM4, I have one now thanks to the BTK. My TS140P will get mounted to my 3770K in the mean time. I don't really have a use for my TRUE.. unless I get my 775 rig back up. I am kind of curious how it would do on my AM4.. but I don't have any skinny 120mm fans and my days of 120x38s in P/P on the TRUE are long gone. Especially with LGMRT in the picture. Love that cooler. I would use it on my AM4 but there is interference with the closest dimm. Unless things are really that bad over there right now, then maybe its not their fault.. who knows. I was a little miffed though.. I considered buying a Noctua lol.


----------



## UnexplodedCow

I've had this heatsink on for a year and a half now, finally cleaning, and awaiting for an IceGiant thermosiphon heatsink (mostly for fun). Temps have remained very stable, and I went with 2x TY143 in push/pull. It's a silly amount of airflow, and not needed at all, except it does perform better at lower RPM, resulting in less noise than I had with a single 143.

The base mated so well with the IHS on the chip that the first time I tried taking off the heatsink, the CPU came with it. Thankfully no bent/damaged pins. For the price, and a little elbow grease in flattening/polishing the base, this thing is surprisingly good. Just wanted to do a follow-up after a decent amount of time.


----------



## doyll

UnexplodedCow said:


> I've had this heatsink on for a year and a half now, finally cleaning, and awaiting for an IceGiant thermosiphon heatsink (mostly for fun). Temps have remained very stable, and I went with 2x TY143 in push/pull. It's a silly amount of airflow, and not needed at all, except it does perform better at lower RPM, resulting in less noise than I had with a single 143.
> 
> The base mated so well with the IHS on the chip that the first time I tried taking off the heatsink, the CPU came with it. Thankfully no bent/damaged pins. For the price, and a little elbow grease in flattening/polishing the base, this thing is surprisingly good. Just wanted to do a follow-up after a decent amount of time.


Assume this is TRUE Spirit 140 Power on Ryzen CPU, but which one?

Seems how well cooler base mates to IHS is quite random. Wonder if it's base that isn't consistent shap or is it IHS that isn't?

Am very interested in hearing how IceGiant does compared to TS140P.


----------



## thigobr

Anyone did experiments with cooler mounting pressure? Not really sure my TS140P is tight enough using the stock mounting kit on AM4 (though it should be). 

Full load I am seeing 87°C when using PBO on a 5950X or 75°C non-PBO. Single TY-143 push fan and Thermalright TFX paste. I have yet to check base/IHS contact and maybe that's the culprit but still the cooler has a little freedom that's why I wanted to check about mounting pressure as well.


----------



## doyll

thigobr said:


> Anyone did experiments with cooler mounting pressure? Not really sure my TS140P is tight enough using the stock mounting kit on AM4 (though it should be).
> 
> Full load I am seeing 87°C when using PBO on a 5950X or 75°C non-PBO. Single TY-143 push fan and Thermalright TFX paste. I have yet to check base/IHS contact and maybe that's the culprit but still the cooler has a little freedom that's why I wanted to check about mounting pressure as well.


I suggest checking flatness of CPU IHS and cooler base. How good the mate up is what determines how well heat transfers from CPU to cooler. After all that is all modifying mount to put more pressure on IHS is doing. Obviously cooler base is too thick to change shape,. so it pushing down harder on IHS distorts IHS so it mates up better with cooler base. This gives better heat transfer from CPU to cooler, but can (and does sometimes) damage CPU socket. 

Have you checked air temp entering cooler vs room ambient? Usign TY-143 at full speed moves twice as much air as normal fans, and if case fans are not matched to cooler to supply that kind of massive airflow your cooler ends up re-cylcing it's own heated exhaust .. and every degree warmer air is entering cool becomes same degrees hotter CPU is. If air entering cooler is 22c warmer than room (I've seen some systems even hotter when gaming) and you lower that air temp to 2c warmer than room the CPU is 20c cooler. I can't stress enough how important it is to have good airflow so cooler always uses air that is no more than a few degrees warmer than room .. and that always requires optimizing case airflow!!


----------



## thigobr

I checked the contact between IHS and the cooler base. Unfortunately is not very good... When trying to seat the HS on the CPU it feels the cooler base is convex. Not sure if I want to lap the base. The end result is thicker than ideal thermal paste film and right around where the two CPU chiplets are located...

I have a Phanteks P500A with 3 140mm intakes, covered the top openings to force cool air got through the CPU cooler, and I am using the TY-147 as exhaust.


----------



## Owterspace

My TS140P was not a good match for my Ryzen either. It wasn’t terrible, but I expected better. But.. it did not come with an AM4 mount. My LGMRT works so well I don’t need to use a fan on it.


----------



## UnexplodedCow

doyll said:


> Assume this is TRUE Spirit 140 Power on Ryzen CPU, but which one?
> 
> Seems how well cooler base mates to IHS is quite random. Wonder if it's base that isn't consistent shap or is it IHS that isn't?
> 
> Am very interested in hearing how IceGiant does compared to TS140P.


I'm currently using a 3900X, and had previously flattened and lapped the base of the TS140P, as it was making poor contact out of the box. Contact is complete now, and needs very little TIM in order to perform well.


----------



## doyll

thigobr said:


> I checked the contact between IHS and the cooler base. Unfortunately is not very good... When trying to seat the HS on the CPU it feels the cooler base is convex. Not sure if I want to lap the base. The end result is thicker than ideal thermal paste film and right around where the two CPU chiplets are located...
> 
> I have a Phanteks P500A with 3 140mm intakes, covered the top openings to force cool air got through the CPU cooler, and I am using the TY-147 as exhaust.


What fans are the 3x 140mm intakes? Assuming they have good pressure rating and run about same rpm as TY-143s on cooler you should be fine. You don't even need TY-147A exhaust fan. In fact if it isn't running slightly higher rpm than TY-143s it's probably hurting cooling. 

If you have any unused PCIe sockets, removing PCIe back slot covers will increase rear vent area for better front to back airflow and lower temp air entering coolers so fans can spin slower so less noise.



UnexplodedCow said:


> I'm currently using a 3900X, and had previously flattened and lapped the base of the TS140P, as it was making poor contact out of the box. Contact is complete now, and needs very little TIM in order to perform well.


Curious, how much time did it take to lap base?


----------



## JackCY

I've yet to see a cooler that actually has a flat base, they try, but they are not flat. Same goes for IHS, those are often terrible.

How do you lap the cooler base? Must be super tricky to do when the cooler is large.


----------



## thigobr

Curious as well for the lapping procedure and how much work... Did you measure the performance difference?
I moved the cooler a little bit of center and it seems to make better contact but I am still seeing ~85°C full load (y-cruncher, CPU package power ~180W)

The intake fans are the ones that came with the case apparently they go up to 1500RPM/85CFM by the datasheet but at full load I set the curve to cap them at 1200RPM (because of noise)
TY-143 is capped at around 2000RPM and the TY-147 can spin to 100% (~1300RPM). I will make some tests without the exhaust to check
All back slot covers have huge vents and I can feel air coming out there so I think the internal flow is working well


----------



## doyll

thigobr said:


> Curious as well for the lapping procedure and how much work... Did you measure the performance difference?
> I moved the cooler a little bit of center and it seems to make better contact but I am still seeing ~85°C full load (y-cruncher, CPU package power ~180W)
> 
> The intake fans are the ones that came with the case apparently they go up to 1500RPM/85CFM by the datasheet but at full load I set the curve to cap them at 1200RPM (because of noise)
> TY-143 is capped at around 2000RPM and the TY-147 can spin to 100% (~1300RPM). I will make some tests without the exhaust to check
> All back slot covers have huge vents and I can feel air coming out there so I think the internal flow is working well


*Case intake fans need to be moving more air into and through case than component cooler fans are moving through coolers!!

Every degree warmer air is going through cooler is same degrees hotter that component will be *(at same load and fan speed)*!!*

Case with 1200-1500rpm and 1200rpm fans and cooler TY-143 fan @ 2000rpm means TY-143 is moving much, much air through cooler than case fans are moving through case (assuming 1x intake fan). To do this cooler fan is re-using it's own heated exhaust air. every time it does this raised air temp entering cooler by difference between cooler intake air temp and cooler exhaust air temp. If cooler exhaust is 5c warmer than cooler intake before it starts re-using case air, it becomes 10c warmer first time it reuses exhaust air, 15c the 2nd time 20c the 3rd time, etc. Now it's probably not really 5c hotter each time, but even if it's only 1c and it's being reused 10 times CPU will be 10c hotter. 

*It is extremely important to use case high pressure rated case fans to overcome the resistance of grill, filter, HDD cage, etc.*

We cannot go by fan cfm specifications. We have to use fan static pressure specification. Static pressure rating is taken with fans at full speed. Static pressure rating of a fan running at 50% of full speed is only about 1/4th to 1/3rd it's rating. For example TY-143 is rated 4.21mmH2O(@2500rpm), TY-147A is rated 1.56mmH2O(@1300rpm) .. a little faster than 1/2 speed with only a little more than 1/3rd the pressure rating.

Even a round wire grill with 4 wire rings only flows 71% of airflow spec. Typical punched metal and fancy front grills flow 29% to 60% of fan airflow spec. Typical nylon and plastic filters flow about 41-65% of spec. A light cotton filter blocks only flow about 20% of spec (spec is at full speed).

Below link is to basic guide to how airflow works and how to optimize case airflow.








* * Ways to Better Cooling; Airflow, Cooler & Fan...


Got tired of posting instructions and guides over and over and over, so decided to start a thread for them. Please do not post unnecessarily as it will make it harder for others to find what they are looking for. This thread is not for opinions of the data or tutorials. If you have questions...




www.overclock.net


----------



## eBombzor

Owterspace said:


> My TS140P was not a good match for my Ryzen either. It wasn’t terrible, but I expected better. But.. it did not come with an AM4 mount. My LGMRT works so well I don’t need to use a fan on it.


May I ask what temps you got on your 3600XT with the TSP140 vs the LGMRT? Like you, I was also slightly underwhelmed with the TSP140 on my 3600x. In Cinebench R20 with PBO off I regularly got to mid 70s. Prime95 small ffts gets 78-80C. Now these temps are not bad at all for such loads, but I expected more from a cooler with rated TDP of 360w.


----------



## Owterspace

eBombzor said:


> May I ask what temps you got on your 3600XT with the TSP140 vs the LGMRT? Like you, I was also slightly underwhelmed with the TSP140 on my 3600x. In Cinebench R20 with PBO off I regularly got to mid 70s. Prime95 small ffts gets 78-80C. Now these temps are not bad at all for such loads, but I expected more from a cooler with rated TDP of 360w.


I don't recall exactly, but I think I was seeing 80c+ just running cinebench. It could have been my mount.. but I don't think it was. Now that cooler on both my X5690 and 3770K is awesome. I wont smack talk it at all, other than my LGMRT has a slightly better cold plate. Its a 5-6c difference on Intel. There is a guy here who has both coolers as well and he results showed TS140P was that difference better than his LGMRT. I would try to lap it to see if it would be better, but with that cooler mounted on my B550 I cannot use the closest dimm.. so not really interested now. Its hanging out with my 3770K anyways.. My Ultra 120 Extreme is looking for something to do though.. it hasn't been mounted since X58 was pretty new to the scene.. and I've got a brand new mount, with a much easier load to hold vs my x5690. I can run anything under the sun on my 3600xt and LGMRT with no fan on it at stock and 4400 all core. Its a dam good cooler.


----------



## doyll

3600 has higher temps than my other systems with similar coolers. Even my [email protected] has cooler temps as similar load levels. I'm guessing is cooler base doesn't mate up as well to 3600 IHS. 

Wish I had some pressure sensitive paper, but don't know where or who to contact to get some. I kinda remember reading about someone getting some from somewhere, but can't find who, where or what it was they ended up using. 

Wonder if Fujifilm Prescale® would work? 




__





Tactile Surface Pressure Indicating Film And Sensors | Pressurex / Fujifilm Prescale Film | Contact Force Measurement | Surface Pressure Mapping | Pressure Measurement Film | Compression Force | Nip Impression Paper | Pressure Paper | Pressure Sensitive Film | Pressure Interface | Tactile Sensor | Leader In Tactile Surface Pressure Measurement Sensors, Fujifilm Prescale Distributor


Sensor Products Inc. Is A World Leader In The Field Of Tactile Surface Pressure Measurement Sensors. Our Pressure Sensors Can Measure The Precise Pressure Distribution And Pressure Magnitude Between Two Surfaces In Contact.




www.sensorprod.com





Don't know if it's 100-400lb pressure range would be proper pressure range for iHS to cooler base print. Below is image from their webiste showing tire pressure print on flat surface:













__





Tactile Surface Pressure Indicating Film And Sensors | Pressurex / Fujifilm Prescale Film | Contact Force Measurement | Surface Pressure Mapping | Pressure Measurement Film | Compression Force | Nip Impression Paper | Pressure Paper | Pressure Sensitive Film | Pressure Interface | Tactile Sensor | Leader In Tactile Surface Pressure Measurement Sensors, Fujifilm Prescale Distributor


Sensor Products Inc. Is A World Leader In The Field Of Tactile Surface Pressure Measurement Sensors. Our Pressure Sensors Can Measure The Precise Pressure Distribution And Pressure Magnitude Between Two Surfaces In Contact.




www.sensorprod.com





Found Initial batches of ROG Strix RX 5700-series graphics cards were torqued to 30-40 PSI based on AMD’s baseline recommendation, but don't know if CPU mounting pressure is same range.








Notice: regarding thermal performance and cooler mounting pressure for ROG Strix Radeon RX 5700-series graphics cards | ROG - Republic of Gamers Global







rog.asus.com





Found this; 


> It should be noted that the maximum mounting pressure Intel recommends (50 pounds) is unchanged in Skylake compared to previous generation CPUs. Whether or not cooler makers have been ignoring the specification up to this point remains to be seen.
> 
> We've reached out to Intel for comment and will update this article when we hear back.
> 
> *Update - 3:08PM:* This just in from Intel...
> 
> _“The design specifications and guidelines for the 6th Gen Intel Core processor using the LGA 1151 socket are unchanged from previous generations and are available for partners and 3rd party manufacturers. Intel can’t comment on 3rd party designs or their adherence to the recommended design specifications. For questions about a specific cooling product we must defer to the manufacturer.” _











Intel Skylake CPUs Are Warping Under Heat Sink Mounting Pressure [Updated]


It's been discovered that some third-party heat sinks can physically damage Intel's new Skylake CPUs, along with the pins in the accompanying motherboard socket. The problem has prompted at least one cooler maker to change the design of its Socket 1151 heat sinks and it wouldn't be surprising if...




hothardware.com





So looks like we need film for 30-100psi, not 100-400psi.


----------



## Dogzilla07

@doyll It probably won't make a huge difference for the 3600 even if the cooler was perfectly flat and matched to the cpu. The issue is with the thermal density and limitations of physics.

Most silicone samples of 5600x/5800x for instance do 85-90 degrees C regardless of the cooler placed (other than the most elaborate custom water cooling).


----------



## o1dschoo1

Dogzilla07 said:


> @doyll It probably won't make a huge difference for the 3600 even if the cooler was perfectly flat and matched to the cpu. The issue is with the thermal density and limitations of physics.
> 
> Most silicone samples of 5600x/5800x for instance do 85-90 degrees C regardless of the cooler placed (other than the most elaborate custom water cooling).


I'd just lap the cpu ihs till it was thin lol. That's just me though.extreme temps call for extreme measures


----------



## Dogzilla07

That won't do much, it could be viable for 3600, but for any other 3000 series or even worse 5600x/5800x it won't make any difference at all.

Don't misunderstand yes technically your temperature would be below 70 for 3600 and below 85 for 5600x/5800x, but it would make no discernable actual difference, the only difference would be an irrelevant psychological one ( even though the preferred operating temperature for the 3600 is under 70c for boosting).

Now for full core OC for the 3600, u don't really need to keep it under <70, and full core OC for the 3000 series only pays off for the 3600 and only for the latest batches than can do 4.35GHz-4.6GHz at respectable safe voltages.

To digress, yes for a good batch high full core OC potential (4.35Ghz - 4.6GHz) 3600 models, yes a flat Cold Plate + lapping would be useful for hot climates without air conditioning.

As for 5600x/5800x, AMD has stated that 90c (for 105w tdp models) and 95c for (65w tdp models) is both the max temp and the preferred operating temperature. The processor will always strive to hit that temp and keep it.

They don't like to work colder than that, they don't like to work cool, they're not made to work cool/colder, their boost algorithms will always strive to oscilate just below max temperature.


----------



## Bruizer

Just stopping in to say my True Spirit 140 Power with single TY-143 and GELid Extreme thermal paste is working great with my 5900X (coming from a 2700X). Seeing 60c on average playing BFV. Max I have seen is 80c running prime95 on blend for an hour. Idle at 30c. This cooler keeps impressing. (I have 2x140 fans intake, one out. Phanteks Enthoo Pro M)


----------



## Dogzilla07

@Bruizer enjoy your golden sample silicon


----------



## UnexplodedCow

For those curious, the lapping time took a few hours to do by hand, as I didn't have a mechanical way to machine the base flat. It is indeed flat as measured with a 0-1" Mitutoyo micrometer on the edges, as well as a machinist straight-edge. Temps decreased considerably from mid 80s to low/mid 70s, depending on room temp.

I have, since today, switched to the IceGiant Pro-Siphon and can confirm the base is _dead_ flat in all directions. Also, under the same Prime95 load, peak temps in an 18C room are 58.9C, with an average around 58.3C. Fans are the stock 4x120mm Arctic P12s running in "normal" profile on the motherboard (Asrock X570 Taichi). Very, very surprising to see this. Noise is considerably lower, as I'd previously run 2x TY143 fans on the TS120P. I may have found a new champion, though the price difference between the two is considerable. 

TS140P remains as my first choice for a "budget" cooler.


----------



## Schmuckley

Raggie said:


> Hey guys, anyone knows where I could order an AM4 mounting kit for my T.S.140 Power nowadays? Is there any internationally shipping webshop that sells them? Or should I try and contact Thermalright directly?


Possibly a Cooler Master backplate and some t-4..40? Screws and nuts? Nylon washers on mobo side.
You can use wingnuts and faucet washers on the top. I use pot..thumb nuts? Easy big thumb-nuts that fit the same thread as pot studs.


----------



## Owterspace

Thanks for coming back to show your efforts! I might have to give it a try.. I just ordered a mount from amazon.com, I think it was like 12 bucks.. with shipping and import fees I think it was about $28CAD. Nice hardware as usual, everything went together flawlessly, and with ease. I did not use the top clamp as I just used the one that came with my TS140P. I am using that mount that came in the mail to hold my LGMRT.

You would be looking for the Thermalright Bolt Through Kit


----------



## Schmuckley

JackCY said:


> I've yet to see a cooler that actually has a flat base, they try, but they are not flat. Same goes for IHS, those are often terrible.
> 
> How do you lap the cooler base? Must be super tricky to do when the cooler is large.


Glass table and sandpaper. Up to 800-1000 grit.


----------



## JackCY

Schmuckley said:


> Glass table and sandpaper. Up to 800-1000 grit.


Yeah but how do you hold it so that you don't make the base round as you're moving it around the flat surface.
Because when you hold a perfectly flat cube and move it around some sand paper you're gonna make it more of a ball the more you grind it.
That's what I mean, how do you fix it when it's so large and tall so that you can move it in 1 plane and not tilt it as you're moving it.

This is less of a problem with objects that are low height vs very wide, such as the IHS. But a CPU cooler has the same size contact as IHS but it's height and mass are much higher in comparison and it will tilt and want to tip over all the time.


----------



## Owterspace

JackCY said:


> Yeah but how do you hold it so that you don't make the base round as you're moving it around the flat surface.
> Because when you hold a perfectly flat cube and move it around some sand paper you're gonna make it more of a ball the more you grind it.
> That's what I mean, how do you fix it when it's so large and tall so that you can move it in 1 plane and not tilt it as you're moving it.
> 
> This is less of a problem with objects that are low height vs very wide, such as the IHS. But a CPU cooler has the same size contact as IHS but it's height and mass are much higher in comparison and it will tilt and want to tip over all the time.


Everything you just said is the reason why I wont try it. I thought about it but.. nah. Unless you had access to a lapping machine.. that would make life a lot easier


----------



## UnexplodedCow

I held the heatsink with some firm pressure at the base, locked the arms, and moved my whole torso (rocking back and forth, and am sure it looked silly) while slowly rotating the heatsink. I started with 360 grit paper and ultimately worked up to 2,000, and then finished with polishing compound. Glass surface that was measured flat. It came out with a mirror-like finish, and has made excellent contact with the CPU IHS (also measured flat with the same straight edge), to the point that it pulled the CPU out of the socket despite twisting several times. MX4 compound was used at the time.

It takes and careful movements, plus stopping to rest/measure regularly to ensure the base isn't rounding. To compensate for the material removed, I added a couple layers of aluminum foil cut to size on top of the base, and it clamped down nicely. One layer was only needed, but two added a bit of wiggle room just in case. Despite being fiddly, I really like the overall design of Thermalright's bracketry, especially that it has a socket support square that clips in.


----------



## JackCY

UnexplodedCow said:


> I held the heatsink with some firm pressure at the base, locked the arms, and moved my whole torso (rocking back and forth, and am sure it looked silly) while slowly rotating the heatsink. I started with 360 grit paper and ultimately worked up to 2,000, and then finished with polishing compound. Glass surface that was measured flat. It came out with a mirror-like finish, and has made excellent contact with the CPU IHS (also measured flat with the same straight edge), to the point that it pulled the CPU out of the socket despite twisting several times. MX4 compound was used at the time.
> 
> It takes and careful movements, plus stopping to rest/measure regularly to ensure the base isn't rounding. To compensate for the material removed, I added a couple layers of aluminum foil cut to size on top of the base, and it clamped down nicely. One layer was only needed, but two added a bit of wiggle room just in case. Despite being fiddly, I really like the overall design of Thermalright's bracketry, especially that it has a socket support square that clips in.


You can pull a PGA CPU out with anything as it's not secured in the socket. It's making contact and should not be removed but nothing is preventing it to be physically pulled out.

Well adding some extra addons such as foils or the more common copper spacers used for some laptops, adds extra thermal gaps to cross. So you hurt the cooling more than help in the end I would say.

The flattening sure can be done on a cooler but it's hella tedious to do right without more specialized tools that could move or hold the cooler so that it can be lapped in a plane and not rounded.

The IHS is very easy to do flat mirror like.
I don't really see the need to add suddenly extras between IHS and cooler as you're not supposed to remove so much that you would need to.

On Intel the LGA clamp can get a bit in the way on high pressure mounting especially of large cold plate coolers. Doesn't matter if anything is lapped or not. At least that's my experience with Intel and LGA.


----------



## Owterspace

I think he meant he put foil where the clamp on the top side of the cold plate sits. You should shim because you are removing material. Those thousandths add up. I do have to say though you are right about clamping pressure. It is much lower on AMD then Intel. When top clamp is fully seated on LGMRT with Intel there is no movement possible by twisting. You can on AMD.. I might try and mount TS140P again when I get some more TFX.. or maybe my TRUE.. because I have nothing else to do.


----------



## doyll

I've lapped a few coolers by hand and had no trouble lapping convex to flat surface. I put one hand on cooler base and other on top of cooler and moved it back and forth, then turn 90 degrees and do it again. Plating is much harder material than copper core of cooler base, so once plated surface is ground through in center area of cooler the harder plated edges help keep lapped surface flat. 
My finished base was not the entire base. I left a little of the plating on edges. Not sure if that helped keep it flat, but sounds good enough for me. 

What* Owterspace *said about foil spacer.


----------



## UnexplodedCow

JackCY said:


> You can pull a PGA CPU out with anything as it's not secured in the socket. It's making contact and should not be removed but nothing is preventing it to be physically pulled out.
> 
> Well adding some extra addons such as foils or the more common copper spacers used for some laptops, adds extra thermal gaps to cross. So you hurt the cooling more than help in the end I would say.
> 
> The flattening sure can be done on a cooler but it's hella tedious to do right without more specialized tools that could move or hold the cooler so that it can be lapped in a plane and not rounded.
> 
> The IHS is very easy to do flat mirror like.
> I don't really see the need to add suddenly extras between IHS and cooler as you're not supposed to remove so much that you would need to.
> 
> On Intel the LGA clamp can get a bit in the way on high pressure mounting especially of large cold plate coolers. Doesn't matter if anything is lapped or not. At least that's my experience with Intel and LGA.


No, I didn't hurt cooling performance by adding a shim to the top of the heatsink base, between the mounting bracket and heatsink base, not the bottom where it contacts the CPU. Clamping force was restored to stock, or slightly higher levels with the shimming, and of course could be increased if needed. Lapping an IHS would have been pointless as the TS140P had a convex base, and I had already measured the CPU IHS as dead flat with the same straight edge. Flattening or polishing something already flat without touching the other, convex surface, will not improve contact in any appreciable way, hence flattening and lapping the base.

A ZIF socket does semi-clamp the pins as well, enough that when the lever is locked in place, a pin can rip out of the CPU package. I had a person come to me (back in the Athlon XP days) where they had ripped a pin out of the CPU by pulling on the heatsink without twisting. I've also seen it on the Socket 939 (Athlon 64/X2) CPUs, as well as bent pins if a person removed the heatsink by tilting. It has happened, and can still happen. I was fortunate in that it didn't, despite the very thin pins of the AM4 chips.


----------



## XtrathiccFan

I probably should start a new thread discussing my issue.


----------



## TriWheel

I noticed the TS140P is no longer being shipped to retailers, what could be deemed the replacement for this great p/p cooler?

As to the above posters, my biggest issue with cpus is not getting a good thermal joint,..it is _undoing_ it that leads to bent pins, and I have not even gotten to AM4 yet.

Prime95 session - check, hairdrier -check, trying to twist HS left and right - check. ripping cpu out of socket still attached to HS and using dental floss to get it off, then straigtening pins -CHECK

It makes me think I try too hard.


----------



## doyll

TriWheel said:


> I noticed the TS140P is no longer being shipped to retailers, what could be deemed the replacement for this great p/p cooler?
> 
> As to the above posters, my biggest issue with cpus is not getting a good thermal joint,..it is _undoing_ it that leads to bent pins, and I have not even gotten to AM4 yet.
> 
> Prime95 session - check, hairdrier -check, trying to twist HS left and right - check. ripping cpu out of socket still attached to HS and using dental floss to get it off, then straigtening pins -CHECK
> 
> It makes me think I try too hard.


Still listed on NewEgg list for USA buyers








true spirit 140 power | Newegg.com


Search Newegg.com for true spirit 140 power. Get fast shipping and top-rated customer service.




www.newegg.com





Also listed on Thermalright.de which is European distributor


https://www.thermalright.de/page/view.product.php?x=92&y=136&id=1JBoev-50bC8p-vY0040-AmijmA


----------



## Abula

Seems more like Thermalright is renewing their cooler/fan line, you can no longer find all the coolers that once were available, gradually we are looking into new fans, that match what Alliexpress had. Imo its a matter of time before we no longer be able to get the classics, Macho, LeGrandMacho, TS140, Silver Arrows, etc.


----------



## cloppy007

I'm having a really hard time finding an am4 kit for an old TRUE 120 (paired with a 38mm San Ace). I'm wondering if there'll be much of a cooling difference (towards either side) between the TRUE and poor man's noctua (U12S Redux). Could somebody shed some light?

The cpu would be a 5600X.


----------



## doyll

cloppy007 said:


> I'm having a really hard time finding an am4 kit for an old TRUE 120 (paired with a 38mm San Ace). I'm wondering if there'll be much of a cooling difference (towards either side) between the TRUE and poor man's noctua (U12S Redux). Could somebody shed some light?
> 
> The cpu would be a 5600X.


Noctua NH-U12S is similar to your TRUE 120 with 4x 6mm heatpipes .. and many other coolers with 120mm heatpipes and 4x 6mm heatpipes including Hyper 212 EVO. Now if you had the Ultra 120 which was same size cooler with 6x 6mm heatpipes, it would be much better cooler. 

What mounting kit do you now have? Some can be drilled to fit AM4. You will probably need some standoffs the right length to fit on AMD base.


----------



## cloppy007

doyll said:


> Noctua NH-U12S is similar to your TRUE 120 with 4x 6mm heatpipes .. and many other coolers with 120mm heatpipes and 4x 6mm heatpipes including Hyper 212 EVO. Now if you had the Ultra 120 which was same size cooler with 6x 6mm heatpipes, it would be much better cooler.
> 
> What mounting kit do you now have? Some can be drilled to fit AM4. You will probably need some standoffs the right length to fit on AMD base.


Wow, thanks for replying!

I have the first rev Ultra 120 eXtreme, with 6 heatpipes and about 51 fins (IIRC the later revs reduced fin density). That's why I'm wondering if it actually might be better than the noctua. Please see the following pic (this is not the one I'll be using, but a lapped one that I have around).









I have the original mounting hardware, plus the rev C AM2/3 kit (that allows rotating the cooler 90º):








And the LGA 115X BTK with a thumb screw for additional fun:


----------



## doyll

cloppy007 said:


> Wow, thanks for replying!
> 
> I have the first rev Ultra 120 eXtreme, with 6 heatpipes and about 51 fins (IIRC the later revs reduced fin density). That's why I'm wondering if it actually might be better than the noctua. Please see the following pic (this is not the one I'll be using, but a lapped one that I have around).
> View attachment 2511829
> 
> 
> I have the original mounting hardware, plus the rev C AM2/3 kit (that allows rotating the cooler 90º):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the LGA 115X BTK with a thumb screw for additional fun:


What are the outside dimensions of your LGA 115X BTK? I think the half-circle notches on left and right sides are for AM3 mount which are 47.74x96.04mm. AM4 holes are spaced 54.15x89.64mm and would be wider than half-circle notches on left and right sides but closer together from left to right sides. Hope that makes sense. Below is AM3 and AM4 hole spacing:









Ryzen bracket above has AM4 holes in red. 

Below is Thermalright mount you have with new AM4 mount being the green spots with AM4 holes in green. Hopefully you can see the difference in hole spacing. You need to drill the green holes in Thermalright plate spaced 54.15 x 89.64 mm center of hole to center of hole.









Then you need spacers, nuts, studs and/or screws to mount our Thermalright plate with AM4 holes.

Hopefully you will be able to follow my rambling explainatons.


----------



## cloppy007

Many thanks for your explanations, the're crystal clear.

I don't have the cooler with me right now 
It doesn't look like neither of the thermalright image. The BTK is the same of this video that was linked in an OCUK thread (where you've also commented!)

In the end, it should be on par (or perhaps even better) than the 4 heatpipe noctua, shouldn't it?

Thanks


doyll said:


> What are the outside dimensions of your LGA 115X BTK? I think the half-circle notches on left and right sides are for AM3 mount which are 47.74x96.04mm. AM4 holes are spaced 54.15x89.64mm and would be wider than half-circle notches on left and right sides but closer together from left to right sides. Hope that makes sense. Below is AM3 and AM4 hole spacing:
> 
> 
> Ryzen bracket above has AM4 holes in red.
> 
> Below is Thermalright mount you have with new AM4 mount being the green spots with AM4 holes in green. Hopefully you can see the difference in hole spacing. You need to drill the green holes in Thermalright plate spaced 54.15 x 89.64 mm center of hole to center of hole.
> 
> 
> Then you need spacers, nuts, studs and/or screws to mount our Thermalright plate with AM4 holes.
> 
> Hopefully you will be able to follow my rambling explainatons.


----------



## doyll

Your Ultra 120 Extreme is better than the 4x 6mm heatpipe coolers .. about 50% better because it has 50% more heatpipes moving heat from base to fins.

Mount in video you linked above has square top with studs on all 4 sides so cooler can be mounted for front to back airflow or up / down airflow. If you have a mount like it for AM3, you can drill AM4 mounting holes as I explained above.

I've been using Thermalright coolers from their very first releases. Some of their mounts have studs (like in video) and others have threaded holes for mounting crossbar over top of cooler base. First coolers had thick bases but now many are thin. I think bases with angled edges top and bottom on 2 sides of base are thick bases to be mounted with BTK mount.

Edit: 
Just found short video below using stock AM4 backplate with threaded spacers screwed into it from top of motherboard. You might be able to do this and only need to drill AM4 holes in top frame. 

2nd edit:








Here's link I forgot to include. 





3rd edit:
Found another video of doing holes in AM3 brackets to AM4


----------



## cloppy007

It should be 50% better, but I was thinking that (perhaps) different heatpipe positioning might play some role.

I've only had a couple of TRUEs and an XP-120 which I loved (and still have), since it performed better than the TRUE... until I got a higher pressure fan 

Thanks for those videos, they'll come in really handy. I'll probably be modding my waterblock to fit in the next AMD socket next year... or mod my other TRUE BTK and get rid of water.


----------



## Heuchler

doyll said:


> Still listed on NewEgg list for USA buyers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> true spirit 140 power | Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Search Newegg.com for true spirit 140 power. Get fast shipping and top-rated customer service.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com


new Thermalright Direct Amazon storefront


Amazon.com Seller Profile: Thermalright Direct



They carry the FS140 Frost Spirit 140 for $50 and RGB version for $58. Hopefully they will carry the Frost Commander 140 soon.






cloppy007 said:


> I'm having a really hard time finding an am4 kit for an old TRUE 120 (paired with a 38mm San Ace). I'm wondering if there'll be much of a cooling difference (towards either side) between the TRUE and poor man's noctua (U12S Redux). Could somebody shed some light?
> 
> The cpu would be a 5600X.


Thermalright 100700553 True BLK Bolt Through Kit (works well with TRUE 120, gave mine to my cousin for his R7 1700).


Amazon.com



Modifying AM3 mount for AM4 usage should work as well. I did that for my Swiftech H240-X


----------



## dansi

do we need to install the backplate cap for AM4 mounting? The manual is not clear, this is what it says... makes it sound like the backplate cap is for 939 only.

Step 2 : Backplate cap
Note: When installing on a 939 platform, please
first insert the Back Plate Cap into the opening
on the Back plate, make sure you have the Cap
facing downwards. (Only for 939).


----------



## doyll

dansi said:


> do we need to install the backplate cap for AM4 mounting? The manual is not clear, this is what it says... makes it sound like the backplate cap is for 939 only.
> 
> Step 2 : Backplate cap
> Note: When installing on a 939 platform, please
> first insert the Back Plate Cap into the opening
> on the Back plate, make sure you have the Cap
> facing downwards. (Only for 939).


On the AMD systems I've mounted cooler on, I found the stock backplate to not be as thick metal as Thermalright mount backplate. This means stock backplate can flex much easier than Thermalright backplate. That's why I always use Thermalright backplate. 

That said, I've seem posts on forums of users just mounting to stock AMD backplate, and haven't seen any of them post back with problems.


----------



## dansi

doyll said:


> On the AMD systems I've mounted cooler on, I found the stock backplate to not be as thick metal as Thermalright mount backplate. This means stock backplate can flex much easier than Thermalright backplate. That's why I always use Thermalright backplate.
> 
> That said, I've seem posts on forums of users just mounting to stock AMD backplate, and haven't seen any of them post back with problems.


Thanks friend.
Actually i was referring to that tiny square back plate cap. 





THERMALRIGHT AMD AM4 Ryzen Installation Guide – Thermalright







thermalright.com


----------



## doyll

dansi said:


> Thanks friend.
> Actually i was referring to that tiny square back plate cap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THERMALRIGHT AMD AM4 Ryzen Installation Guide – Thermalright
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thermalright.com


Sorry for slow reply. Didn't get email notice for some reason.

That "back plate cap" fill space between backplate and back of CPU socket.
This is so cooler mount pressure is from cooler base through CPU IHS to CPU chip to socket to back space plate cap' ending up against with backplate. This stops motherboard and socket from flexing / distorting thus causing damage to socket connections .ending is non-functioning system. 

I've mounted many Thermalright (and other) coolers .. so many I long ago lost count. I've always followed instructions and have never had problems or damaged one.

It's a good idea to check that all nuts / screws thread into holes properly. I have found some that didn't.
I put a drop of oil on small piece of cloth and wipe threads so there is just a tiny bit of lubricant on them.
This way they screw easier in easier until the reach their topping point .. makes it much easier to know when mount screw / nuts are tight.

I also suggest doing a "practice" install with clean base and IHS. Always alternate tightening mounting screws on opposite corners a 1/2-1 turn at a time so cooler tightens up evenly on all corners. Sometimes a 2nd pair of hands is helpful.
Then apply dob of TIM in middle (size of grain of rice) and mount cooler.

I assume this is TRUE Spirit 140 Power cooler you are mounting?


----------



## Jonhp

Doyll need your experience ... I have an old IFX 14 lapped with 2 fans(38mm kaze 3000 rpm in the middle and a thermaright 143 in front) mounted on a modded drilled venomous-x kit and am4 plate ,IFX has 4x8mm pipes!great temps for my 2700 using metal paste! I want to go for a hot 5800x chip.... So .... Should I keep IFX ? .. Should I go for 140 power? Or for noctua d15? I believe true power 140 lapped with mounting pressure mod and two ty143 is a good option! What u should do?


----------



## doyll

Jonhp said:


> Doyll need your experience ... I have an old IFX 14 lapped with 2 fans(38mm kaze 3000 rpm in the middle and a thermaright 143 in front) mounted on a modded drilled venomous-x kit and am4 plate ,IFX has 4x8mm pipes!great temps for my 2700 using metal paste! I want to go for a hot 5800x chip.... So .... Should I keep IFX ? .. Should I go for 140 power? Or for noctua d15? I believe true power 140 lapped with mounting pressure mod and two ty143 is a good option! What u should do?


IFX-14 are a great old cooler, but 4x 8mm heatpipes cannot move as much heat as 6x 8mm heatpipes. That said, 5800 uses same AM4 mount so would be easy to see how IFX-14 does perform. 

I have a mate (Owterspace) with 5600x with True Spirit 140 Power, Le Grand Macho RT, and Frost Commander 140 coolers saying FC140 is better with 7nm than my previous favorite cooler, (LGMRT). Frost Commander 140 twin tower with 5x 8mm heatpipes. My guess is Frost Commander 140 cooling better than others is becuase it has better base to IHS mating (probably because of flatter base). 5600x is not as hot as 5800x, but ... 

Below is Frost Commander 140 dimensional drawing








Would probably have to order it from AliExpress








55.57US $ 68% OFF|Thermalright Fc140 5x8mmaghp Heat Pipe Full Electroplating Reflow Soldering Radiator S-fdb Bearing Performance Level Fan - Fans & Cooling - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com





If you do decide to use TRUE Spirit 140 Power, I'm sure it will do well .. but might need to be lapped flat. You probably wouldn't need 2x TY-143 fans on it. Difference between 1x and 2x TY-143 fans @ 1200rpm was 1.64c and @ 2500rpm 2.55c. Difference between 1200rpm and 2500rpm was 9.3c on i7 920 @ 4.2 GHz.

Hope that helps. Feel free to ask more if needed.


----------



## Owterspace

TS140P on AM4? I tried it on a 3600XT and 5600X, I didnt bother on my 5900X. Mine needs a strong lap job. Even for Intel, its about 5c off of my LGMRT. I actually thought LGMRT was the best cooler, until I got my FC140 

On my Asus board TS140P also blocks the closest dimm. Its kind of sucky.


----------



## Jonhp

So u suggest FC140 or lapped TS140P.... Shame they didn't realise a dual tower cooler with 6x8mm It could be easy they made true power only ... Heh the IFX 14 base was like mountain I could see the curve with naked eye from some distance... Heh hunting the last degree ... 2 fans- pressure mod -metal paste lapping- my friend have LGTMacho(with industrial noctua 3000 on it )same cpu speed same voltages test I am 10 degrees cooler of course not all chips are the same....The photo below is from change zen 1700x to 2700 you can read the Ryzen letters on the base heh the fan is for vrm cooling heh ...


----------



## Owterspace

Jonhp said:


> So u suggest FC140 or lapped TS140P.... Shame they didn't realise a dual tower cooler with 6x8mm It could be easy they made true power only ... Heh the IFX 14 base was like mountain I could see the curve with naked eye from some distance... Heh hunting the last degree ... 2 fans- pressure mod -metal paste lapping- my friend have LGTMacho(with industrial noctua 3000 on it )same cpu speed same voltages test I am 10 degrees cooler of course not all chips are the same....The photo below is from change zen 1700x to 2700 you can read the Ryzen letters on the base heh the fan is for vrm cooling heh ...


I didnt lap my TS140P, so I cant recommend it, or lapping it. Like I said, my Le Grand Macho RT was better on Intel and AMD then TS140P was. FC140 is a good cooler. It is 1 kilo.. so she's got some mass. And she soaks up my 5900X with no problem. 5x 8mm pipes work pretty good, the base and mount are really good for AM4.


----------



## doyll

Jonhp said:


> So u suggest FC140 or lapped TS140P.... Shame they didn't realise a dual tower cooler with 6x8mm It could be easy they made true power only ... Heh the IFX 14 base was like mountain I could see the curve with naked eye from some distance... Heh hunting the last degree ... 2 fans- pressure mod -metal paste lapping- my friend have LGTMacho(with industrial noctua 3000 on it )same cpu speed same voltages test I am 10 degrees cooler of course not all chips are the same....The photo below is from change zen 1700x to 2700 you can read the Ryzen letters on the base heh the fan is for vrm cooling heh ...
> 
> View attachment 2523710


TIM print looks like you have good mating of IHS to IFX-14 base. 

Just curious, do you have HR-01 / IFX-10 cooler for backside of CPU socket?


----------



## Jonhp

No backside Cooling it was a deal...used products IFX cooler only in box... For 25 $ .... The back cooler was missing... Metal paste is good but it's very difficult to separate the cpu from heatsink after so much pressure the washer on Venomous x btk II Mount kit is crazy 70lbs ..they are glued only patience and force.. lucky I didn't make damage to old cpu!back on topic... TSP140 vs FC140.... TSP140:Very promising if lapped ... One more pipe... Higher watt cooling capacity according to thermaright!FC140: heavier due to More fins and dual tower desing... Quality fans.... I really don't know what to choose 😵 a hair more on tsp140 side.. FC140 is rated for 275watt?


----------



## Owterspace

Yup 275 for FC140 and 360 for TS140P, which I have on my 3770K because my LGMRT is reserved for my 5600X that just needs a board.

This is FC140 on my 5900X with a single iPPC 3K in the center.










And a link to my current case setup:









[Official] Fractal Design Case Club


Redid and cleaned my build in my Define 7 XL case. I'm not big on RGB so I tried playing around with what options I had, but looks a lot better when the dark tempered glass is on. If I were going to build in Define 7 XL, that is how I would want mine to look, very clean, and 2 x 420 rads would...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Jonhp

Good temps as I can see from Mobo temps room temp was around 20c ! I am afraid the 5800x it runs hotter than the 5900x also the true power is hard to find one in stock!


----------



## Owterspace

Yeah they are hard to find now, probably not made anymore. Just remember, those pipes only work in your favor if there is something under them. They don't all work together. I saw that with TS140P and 3770K. On a big 6 core 1366 chip my LGMRT and TS140P actually get warm at the fin stack, so those coolers work great on old processors like that. That was a hard lesson learned. Thats not to say they dont work good on new CPU's, I like my LGMRT on my 5600X, but I don't like TS140P on it, at least in fully stock form. Plus the fan clips on TS140P absolutely suck donkey balls. **** that cooler lol.


----------



## doyll

Jonhp said:


> No backside Cooling it was a deal...used products IFX cooler only in box... For 25 $ .... The back cooler was missing... Metal paste is good but it's very difficult to separate the cpu from heatsink after so much pressure the washer on Venomous x btk II Mount kit is crazy 70lbs ..they are glued only patience and force.. lucky I didn't make damage to old cpu!back on topic... TSP140 vs FC140.... TSP140:Very promising if lapped ... One more pipe... Higher watt cooling capacity according to thermaright!FC140: heavier due to More fins and dual tower desing... Quality fans.... I really don't know what to choose 😵 a hair more on tsp140 side.. FC140 is rated for 275watt?





Jonhp said:


> Good temps as I can see from Mobo temps room temp was around 20c ! I am afraid the 5800x it runs hotter than the 5900x also the true power is hard to find one in stock!


If it was me I would go TRUE Spirit 140 Power and lap if needed. I have 2 TSP140 cooler and love them. Both of mine are on Intel CPUs and work very well. One is on 6700, other is on old i7 920 @ 4.2GHz. 

Something not mentioned is heatpipe orientation. TSP140 heatpipes are side to side of CPU while FC140 are front to back. Not sure how this will effect your CPU, but I've seen some that cooled better with one or other orientation.


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## Owterspace

Its cool to disregard what I say, I don't take it personally. I'm telling you right now, without a lap, TS140P is not at all competitive, and you can do better, much better. You can go through the trouble and testing, and let me know your findings when you are all done.

FC140 is the better cooler for new chips, but don't take my word for it, see for yourself.


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## doyll

Owterspace said:


> Its cool to disregard what I say, I don't take it personally. I'm telling you right now, without a lap, TS140P is not at all competitive, and you can do better, much better. You can go through the trouble and testing, and let me know your findings when you are all done.
> 
> FC140 is the better cooler for new chips, but don't take my word for it, see for yourself.


I'm not at all disregarding what you say. I believe what you have said about your TS140P base not being flat, thus not mating well against your CPUs. But your experience and a few others with TRUE Spirit 140 Power is quite different from mine and most others I know. It seems every one who has had problems with TS140P has said their TS140P base was convex and not mating well to IHS. 

We tested TS140P on my on 2 overclocked i7 920s, 1 @ 4.3 GHz and other @ 4.2 Ghz. Both of us got extremely good results. Mate's TRUE Spirit 140 Power was 3.95c cooler than Ultra 120 Extreme Copper and 3.05c cooler than NH-D14 at 2500rpm, and at 1200rpm TRUE Spirit 140 Power was 1.8c cooler than Ultra 120 Exteme Copper and 2c cooler than NH-D14. TRUE Spirit 140 Power was 1.3c cooler than NH-D15 with same fans (NF-A15 1500rpm). My TRUE Spirit 140 Power has cooled as good or better than every air cooler I've tested it against even Le Grand Macho RT. Combine TRUE Spirit 140 Power's great cooling ablity with is $50 price and it clearly is best performance to price ratio on the market.

Not saying there no coolers as good or better. Just saying I haven't found any .. yet. That said, ID-Cooling's FI-Reex Deluxe and Hunter VC-3D vapor chamber coolers were exceptionally good. Problem was it took 3 tries to get one that didn't have defective (deformed) base on vapor chamber, so it isn't really not a contender.

I've used Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme on i7 920 @ 4.3Ghz getting similar results as TSP140, but did not test both in same session. Without you lapping your TSP140 so it's flat we don't know how good it is. I did specifically say it might need base lapped to get a good print.


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## Owterspace

doyll said:


> I'm not at all disregarding what you say. I believe what you have said about your TS140P base not being flat, thus not mating well against your CPUs. But your experience and a few others with TRUE Spirit 140 Power is quite different from mine and most others I know. It seems every one who has had problems with TS140P has said their TS140P base was convex and not mating well to IHS.
> 
> We tested TS140P on my on 2 overclocked i7 920s, 1 @ 4.3 GHz and other @ 4.2 Ghz. Both of us got extremely good results. Mate's TRUE Spirit 140 Power was 3.95c cooler than Ultra 120 Extreme Copper and 3.05c cooler than NH-D14 at 2500rpm, and at 1200rpm TRUE Spirit 140 Power was 1.8c cooler than Ultra 120 Exteme Copper and 2c cooler than NH-D14. TRUE Spirit 140 Power was 1.3c cooler than NH-D15 with same fans (NF-A15 1500rpm). My TRUE Spirit 140 Power has cooled as good or better than every air cooler I've tested it against even Le Grand Macho RT. Combine TRUE Spirit 140 Power's great cooling ablity with is $50 price and it clearly is best performance to price ratio on the market.
> 
> Not saying there no coolers as good or better. Just saying I haven't found any .. yet. That said, ID-Cooling's FI-Reex Deluxe and Hunter VC-3D vapor chamber coolers were exceptionally good. Problem was it took 3 tries to get one that didn't have defective (deformed) base on vapor chamber, so it isn't really not a contender.
> 
> I've used Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme on i7 920 @ 4.3Ghz getting similar results as TSP140, but did not test both in same session. Without you lapping your TSP140 so it's flat we don't know how good it is. I did specifically say it might need base lapped to get a good print.


I cant remember that other fella's name here, he has TS140P and LGMRT as well and the difference between his two coolers were the difference between my two coolers. His TS140P was 5c better at the minimum compared to his LGMRT. Pretty much the exact difference I saw between my two, with LGMRT doing better. Sorry about my last reply, no posting before coffee lol. Now I know where my kids get their sensitivity from lol.. I am familiar with your testing, I was very much all over any info I could get at one point, and enjoyed reading your posts, and ones like them.

I still think TS140P is a good cooler, its on my overclocked 3770K right now running at 4600MHz with a TY-147B because the A died. a miserable death due to a failed bearing.. probably when I ran it upside down for a month or two.. it was never the same after that.


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## doyll

No problem mate. Sometimes it's hard to know exactly what someone means in their posts .. and sometimes I'm not as clear as I should be.


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