# ohhgourami's Noctua NH-D14 vs. NH-D15 Comparison



## ohhgourami

The test were done on my own test bench to find the differences between the heatsinks while using the same fans. I chose to do the test using the retail NF-A15 PWM which only goes up to 1200rpm instead of the 1500rpm versions that come with the NH-D15 since the 1500rpm version's minimum rpm is ~680-700rpm which is too loud for "silent" applications.

Testing methodology:
Setup is on open test bench using a 4670k delidded and OCed to 4.3ghz @ 1.24V. Sorry by CPU isn't stable no matter what vcore it's at.

Paste used for the NH-D14 was IC Diamond and NH-D15 was Coollaboratory Liquid Ulra since both heatsinks are different machined base. The D14 had a rougher base which suited IC Diamond, while D15 was almost smooth which suited Liquid Ultra. I had initially tried IC Diamond on the D15 and temps were significantly worse than the D14. *DO NOT USE VISCOUS PASTE FOR THE D15!*

For load testing, I ran prime95 small FFT for 6 mins on each test. Small FFT achieves high core temp in a short period of time. Temperatures were then averaged across the 4 cores then subtracted from the ambient temp.


----------



## doyll

Looks like a 3.5-4.5c difference between NH-D14 and NH-D15?


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Looks like a 3.5-4.5c difference between NH-D14 and NH-D15?


Yup, and that's the heatsink difference which is quite significant. I'm actually a bit disappointed Noctua did not make the heatsink larger by using more fins to fully take advantage of the fan. Probably could have dropped the temps by another 1.5C, but the babies would cry about memory clearance.









Worthy upgrade when you consider I only paid $70 for this D15. Good job Noctua for making an improvement, bad job for not taking advantage of it's full potential for the sake of compatibility.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> 4670k delidded and OCed to 4.3ghz @ 1.24V


Hrm, that looks decent. I wonder how further it could go on another cpu. I got hints from another review that a main obstacle might be 'jumps' of temp, e.g. the avg temperature being around 70-80 but one core reaching much higher and crashing the thing.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Hrm, that looks decent. I wonder how further it could go on another cpu. I got hints from another review that a main obstacle might be 'jumps' of temp, e.g. the avg temperature being around 70-80 but one core reaching much higher and crashing the thing.


Maybe. The D15 has provided me the most even temps of the heatsinks I've tried. Of the 10+ mountings I've done with the D14, I've always had a delta 8C between cores. I only got a delta 4C on the D15. Maybe lapping the heatsink and chip would fix that.


----------



## fateswarm

Lapping does sound like the perfect place to try to tackle that delta issue.


----------



## ehume

To compare heatsinks you really ought to use the same TIM. In this case, for example, Noctua's own TIM would probably be most appropriate. I would have use GC-Extreme, but that's me. The Noctua paste should suit both heatsinks since Noctua would have made sure thry were compatible befor releasing the heatsinks.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> To compare heatsinks you really ought to use the same TIM. In this case, for example, Noctua's own TIM would probably be most appropriate. I would have use GC-Extreme, but that's me. The Noctua paste should suit both heatsinks since Noctua would have made sure thry were compatible befor releasing the heatsinks.


I initially used IC Diamond for both. And IC Diamond has provided by the best temps for the D14 compared many other pastes. Too bad the D15 had horrible temps with IC Diamond. I had to use 1500rpm fans just to match the D14 using 1200rpm. I get what you mean by using the same paste, but it's just not optimal since the bases are different.

Ideally, we would lap both heatsinks and use Liquid Ultra.


----------



## steven88

Who is that in your avatar?


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steven88*
> 
> Who is that in your avatar?


Not me or my gf, but shes...


----------



## veryrarium

I agree with ehume, it might be that the few degrees of differences in your results are caused by the superiority of liquid metal TIM over any other type of TIM and not really by the difference in the capabilities of D14 and D15.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *veryrarium*
> 
> I agree with ehume, it might be that the few degrees of differences in your results are caused by the superiority of liquid metal TIM over any other type of TIM and not really by the difference in the capabilities of D14 and D15.


When I compared Liquid Ultra and IC Diamond on the D14, Liquid Ultra was worse by 1C.


----------



## ebhsimon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> When I compared Liquid Ultra and IC Diamond on the D14, Liquid Ultra was worse by 1C.


It's not a good methodology to compare heatsinks using different pastes, so the validity of your experiment is questionable.
Your experiment seems to agree with what other reviewers are saying about the D15 vs. the D14 so I'm not going to completely throw your results out the window.


----------



## doyll

Is this just one mounting and run or several mounting with several runs on each mounting?


----------



## ohhgourami

The mounting on the D14 is from the last of 5+ mountings with IC Diamond. All 5 gave the same exact temps.

I only did one mounting job with the D15 each with IC Diamond and Liquid Ultra. I'm currently out of Liquid Ultra so I can't repeat the test. I'm skeptical the IC Diamond application was done poorly since the footprint looks good; Liquid Ultra is a mandatory spread and this cooler is very easy to seat.

I'll admit the use of different paste for the final data is questionable, but I believe these paste gave the heatsinks their best respective temps and that is what I wanted to test - the differences in temps when they are performing their best when eliminating differences in fans used.


----------



## doyll

I agree. Your results are similar to others comparing the NH-D14 and NH-D15.
Bottom line is NH-D15 brings Noctua back on par with other top coolers like PH-TC14PE, Silver Arrow IB-E, Cryorig R1 Ultimate, etc.

Considering the age of NH-D14, being only a few degrees warmer than newest releases is impressive. But than if original Silver Arrow was still being made...


----------



## fateswarm

What kind of temps can D15 do on a 4770/90K on 1.4v?


----------



## BeAuMaN

Were you ever able to test this again with more Liquid Ultra?


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BeAuMaN*
> 
> Were you ever able to test this again with more Liquid Ultra?


I haven't bothered to buy another tube. I honestly don't think I can beat my current temps.


----------



## Ashura

Thanks for the review + Rep.

Is the d15 worth the extra $20(approx) over the D14? or is the d14 still a good buy?


----------



## fateswarm

I believe it's worth it, provided you are the kind of person that goes for D14 at least. If you go for ~$50 coolers, sure, it's a steep climb, but if you go to $70+ anyway, even 1 degree per $10 is a lot.

People go to water for much more per degree.


----------



## Ashura

Thanks, that makes sense.
I'm looking for the best (air)cooling possible.

I'll probably go for d15 or maybe ph tc14pe.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashura*
> 
> Thanks for the review + Rep.
> 
> Is the d15 worth the extra $20(approx) over the D14? or is the d14 still a good buy?


D14 isn't worth it when you're like me who changes out the fans for retail NH-A15's. A 4C drop at load is definitely worth it.


----------



## Capt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashura*
> 
> Thanks for the review + Rep.
> 
> Is the d15 worth the extra $20(approx) over the D14? or is the d14 still a good buy?


I personally prefer to have PWM fans and the NH-D14 doesn't have them so I think the NH-D15 is worth it since it comes with two nice 140mm fans.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ashura*
> 
> Thanks for the review + Rep.
> 
> Is the d15 worth the extra $20(approx) over the D14? or is the d14 still a good buy?
> 
> 
> 
> I personally prefer to have PWM fans and the NH-D14 doesn't have them so I think the NH-D15 is worth it since it comes with two nice 140mm fans.
Click to expand...

And those are very nice fans.


----------



## doyll

The only way to get the 1500rpm / 82.5cfm version of NF-A15 PWM is by buying a cooler that comes with them.. The retail version of the NF-A15 PWM is 1200rpm / 68cfm


----------



## Midi-Fighter

Thermalright Silver Arrow SB-E + TY 147 or D14 + A15?


----------



## surfn

New to overlocking and using noctua products. Is Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound a good one to use with the d15 and d14? Thanks for any advice !


----------



## doyll

Why not use the Noctua paste that comes with coolers? It's quite good.


----------



## surfn

I'm really new to this stuff and was thinking that there was better stuff available. But, if the stuff that comes with the item is good, I think I'll just stick with that and if it's a problem I guess I could always clean it an use something different later.

thanks for the advice !!


----------



## doyll

I would suggest you do a "practice" install without TIM first to make sure everything is aligned and fitting properly, then go ahead and do the install with the TIM. Only takes a couple extra minutes but can save lots of grief.


----------



## surfn

Thanks for the advice !!

Commodore 64 !! Nice !

I remember those REALLY well.... I had a little side business selling them. I'd buy 'em wholesale and sell them with some support.


----------



## miklkit

Have you read the first post of this thread? What TIM to use depends on which cooler you end up buying. I recently found out that this makes a big difference. Much more than one would expect.


----------



## doyll

I have to disagree.
The first post testing procedure was not scientific .. and the difference in TIM is not done repeatedly to verify the differences. The fact that it's standard procedure to always use the same TIM on all coolers being tested speaks for itself.


----------



## miklkit

I had no opinion on this until recently when I ran out of silver TIM and started using AC Diamond. I was swapping coolers and motherboards around and using lots of it. The Silver Arrow has a mirror finish base and the HE01 has a non mirrored base finish.

At first I was using the SA with the silver stuff and getting good temps. when it ran out I put the diamond stuff on and temps went up. So I switched to the HE01 and temps went back down again. I'm not sure yet just which is the superior cooler as they are pretty close.

Using the same TIM on different coolers could be seen as one way to skew the result to favor one over the other. I am convinced as this HE01 is running cooler than normal as I normally use the cheaper silver stuff. And no I am not going to test this myself properly as while I was changing coolers on one board the needle nose pliers slipped and gouged the board, turning it into a $170 frisbee. I am not motivated to attempt that again soon.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> I had no opinion on this until recently when I ran out of silver TIM and started using AC Diamond. I was swapping coolers and motherboards around and using lots of it. The Silver Arrow has a mirror finish base and the HE01 has a non mirrored base finish.
> 
> At first I was using the SA with the silver stuff and getting good temps. when it ran out I put the diamond stuff on and temps went up. So I switched to the HE01 and temps went back down again. I'm not sure yet just which is the superior cooler as they are pretty close.
> 
> Using the same TIM on different coolers could be seen as one way to skew the result to favor one over the other. I am convinced as this HE01 is running cooler than normal as I normally use the cheaper silver stuff. And no I am not going to test this myself properly as while I was changing coolers on one board the needle nose pliers slipped and gouged the board, turning it into a $170 frisbee. I am not motivated to attempt that again soon.


What is "silver stuff"?
I assume you mean IC Diamond .. which is known to be very abrasive and while a little better than most others, hardly worth the damage is may cause.

Using different TIM on different coolers would definitely be seen as one way to skew the results in favor of one over the other.








Using "silver stuff" .. what is this "silver stuff". I've never heard of that brand.








As for needle nose pliers slippage, that is an erro that should not happen regardless of how many times a cooler is changed.








But I do understand your reluctance to try it again soon.


----------



## miklkit

The silver stuff is what I called it because I couldn't remember the full name. It's what they have on the shelf at the local Best Buy. I found it. Dynex silver compound. It is pretty thin compared to the IC Diamond stuff.

The needle nose plier slippage happened when I was removing the Silver Arrow. It has a nice steel back plate that 4 small Philips head bolts go through. Those bolts thread into 4 thick heavy metal nuts that are used as spacers, and the bracket the cooler bolts to is bolted onto them with 4 small screws.
Well, one of those heavy nuts is machined a little tight so that I had to turn the screw driver with my right hand while holding back with the NNpliers with the left hand. The board was still in the case as there is adequate room to change coolers. So anyway the nut never spun but the pliers worked their way up the nut until the tips were touching the board and the and the slight left-right movement while unthreading that little bolt was enough to cut 2 metal tracks, which killed the board.

I am now using the HE01 which has a better mounting system that actually uses those same heavy metal nuts, but in another location.

Damage? Damage what? Would it scrape the printing off the top of the cpu? How many applications would that take? Would it polish the bottom of the heat sink? Cool!


----------



## doyll

Try doing a Google for "IC Diamond problems" Should find plenty about the problems.


----------



## miklkit

Ya it looks like putting it on lapped and delidded cpus was a bad idea. That is where I found it to be less effective also. It is working just fine with both the cpu and heat sink in unpolished condition.

I just looked at 2 lapped cpus and the SA base and they show no damage or discoloration.


----------



## ohhgourami

Doyll, my post isn't that scientific but you can draw the conclusion that the D15 does cool better and what paste you use does matter depending on the heatsink base. Quantifying it cannot be done unless I did repeated testing.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Doyll, my post isn't that scientific but you can draw the conclusion that the D15 does cool better and what paste you use does matter depending on the heatsink base. Quantifying it cannot be done unless I did repeated testing.


Your guess (conclusion) may be correct . or my guess that it may ot be correct are equally valid. Without further testing we have no way to verify either of our guesses.


----------



## GtiJason

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Not me or my gf, but shes...


Gillian Chung


----------



## solix

Doyll, long time lurker of a lot of your threads on fans and sinks and what not. Some time ago after a ridiculous amount of reading I upgraded my case to all TY-147s and I got a PH-TC14PE and dropped two TY-147s on it in favor of an NH-D14. I can't remember where I read it, but someone did an apples to apples fan test and the Phanteks was better with the same fans over an NH-D14. Once again I am now having to face the question of whether, pound for pound, an NH-D15 or a Phanteks PH-TC14PE would win with like fans (in my case TY-147s). I also heard some people saying the NH-D15 was finally TOO big and blocked PCI slots. It seems the Phanteks might be at the very edge of the tolerance of air cooling with respect to maximum compatibility.

Anyone else done this analysis?


----------



## solix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solix*
> 
> Doyll, long time lurker of a lot of your threads on fans and sinks and what not. Some time ago after a ridiculous amount of reading I upgraded my case to all TY-147s and I got a PH-TC14PE and dropped two TY-147s on it in favor of an NH-D14. I can't remember where I read it, but someone did an apples to apples fan test and the Phanteks was better with the same fans over an NH-D14. Once again I am now having to face the question of whether, pound for pound, an NH-D15 or a Phanteks PH-TC14PE would win with like fans (in my case TY-147s). I also heard some people saying the NH-D15 was finally TOO big and blocked PCI slots. It seems the Phanteks might be at the very edge of the tolerance of air cooling with respect to maximum compatibility.
> 
> Anyone else done this analysis?


Update found here:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/noctua-nh-d15_5.html
"Although the Noctua NH-D15 wins at the maximum speed of the default fans, the Phanteks PH-TC14PЕ enjoys a 1 or 2°C advantage at each other speed: 1200, 1000 and 800 RPM. Installing Noctua fans on the Phanteks PH-TC14PЕ improves the latter's performance a little, so it seems to be slightly better than the Noctua NH-D15 with identical fans. It is the Corsair AF140 fans that are the best choice for the Phanteks PH-TC14PЕ, though."

Guess I'll stay put especially given how big NH-D15 is and I use all of my pci slots because of dedicated physx, xfire, xonar stx etc.


----------



## kckyle

cough"cryorirg r1"cough


----------



## MicroCat

sniffle"SilverArrow IB-E Extreme" No slot blocking...;-)


----------



## doyll

"Snort" The top coolers all have pretty much the same performance. Fans make most of the difference.









Generally improving case airlfow results in much lower temps than changing coolers.

Even some of the big single towers are so close in performance to the big twins .. like TRUE Spirit 140, Archon, NH-U14S, FI-REEX Deluxe, etc.

@solix
TY-14x series fans are my favorite. Here the new TY-147A can be had for as little as £4.91 .. which is a steal compared ot NF-A15 costing £17.06 .. same performance at less than a third the cost. Too bad the don't make a square version.

Any pics of your build?

@MicroCat
Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme is .. well .. EXTREME!! A real wolf in sheep's clothing. Up to 1300rpm it sounds and performs like any other top cooler, but when more cooling is needed (and case airflow matches) winding it on up (please secure all loss items and where ear protection) the TY-143 fans move almost twice as much air as other TY-14x fans (130cfm vs 74cfm).

The TY-14x series have same performance and noise as NF-A14, NF-A15, NF-A14 IPPC 2000 & 3000 fans at same rpm.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> @MicroCat
> Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme is .. well .. EXTREME!! A real wolf in sheep's clothing. Up to 1300rpm it sounds and performs like any other top cooler, but when more cooling is needed (and case airflow matches) winding it on up (please secure all loss items and where ear protection) the TY-143 fans move almost twice as much air as other TY-14x fans (130cfm vs 74cfm).


I hear you. LOUD and clear. That's why I was recommending it to someone else, hopefully on a distant continent.









I'm more of a TY-147A quiet roar type. In CDN money your TY-147A would cost a little under $10. That's an incredible value! But the only 140mm TR available here is the TY 141 and it costs $41 CDN!!! *sigh*

So...have to get by with those cheap Noctuas - just bought a couple more A15s for $18.99 CDN (£9.87) - half the price of those high end TRs.









Ain't the global marketplace great!


----------



## doyll

Yeah, like Antarctica







Seriously, I have TY-143s on coolers in two of my systems and never hear them .. but they are always running below 1100rpm.









Have to wonder what it would cost to post TY-147A to Canada. I would guess six to ten would end up being same or little cheaper than NF-A15s are there. Would you have to pay any import duty on them?


----------



## Casey Ryback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashura*
> 
> Thanks for the review + Rep.
> 
> Is the d15 worth the extra $20(approx) over the D14? or is the d14 still a good buy?


I disagree that the D15 is a better buy, even if it is 3-4C difference......$20?

3-4C difference doesn't equal any higher overclocks.

Plus this review doesn't agree.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/noctua_nh_d15_review,11.html

Says they have identical performance @ 1.3V 4.6ghz.

Another one stating identical.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cooling/2014/05/01/noctua-nh-d15-review/2

The winner is the D14 for value.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Casey Ryback*
> 
> I disagree that the D15 is a better buy, even if it is 3-4C difference......$20?
> 
> 3-4C difference doesn't equal any higher overclocks.
> 
> Plus this review doesn't agree.
> 
> http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/noctua_nh_d15_review,11.html
> 
> Says they have identical performance @ 1.3V 4.6ghz.
> 
> Another one stating identical.
> 
> http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cooling/2014/05/01/noctua-nh-d15-review/2
> 
> The winner is the D14 for value.


Indeed.








Only thing I don't agree with is blanket statement that D14 is better value .. better value than D15, yes, but not always true when we look at all the other excellent coolers within a couple of degrees of each other. The best value varies depending on pricing at the time One of the top coolers is usually in the $40-60 range at any given time.

We need to emphasize that tuning the case airflow will usually give us much more than 3-4 degrees cooler CPU temps, and lower other components temps as well..


----------



## edsai

Well the D15 at least has better clearance with higher profile memory.

In some boards the D14 even without the front fan blocks the first slot ram.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *edsai*
> 
> Well the D15 at least has better clearance with higher profile memory.
> 
> In some boards the D14 even without the front fan blocks the first slot ram.


Simple solution is don't get tall RAM. It serves no purpose except looks.
D15 fans won't clear RAM as well as D14 fans dol


----------



## miklkit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Casey Ryback*
> 
> I disagree that the D15 is a better buy, even if it is 3-4C difference......$20?
> 
> 3-4C difference doesn't equal any higher overclocks.
> 
> Plus this review doesn't agree.
> 
> http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/noctua_nh_d15_review,11.html
> 
> Says they have identical performance @ 1.3V 4.6ghz.
> 
> Another one stating identical.
> 
> http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cooling/2014/05/01/noctua-nh-d15-review/2
> 
> The winner is the D14 for value.


1.3 volts? That's nothing! Any cooler can do that. How does it cool at 1.5 volts? Only then can you tell if it is any good or not. All of those tests people are talking about are completely useless.


----------



## edsai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Simple solution is don't get tall RAM. It serves no purpose except looks.
> *D15 fans won't clear RAM as well as D14 fans* dol


Thanks to let me know about it.

Well, actually I tried to mean that the D15 might be a good choice for who already owns a taller ram.
I would say also the D15 might be a good choice for who doesn't want to worry about ram clearence issues.

The D15 might not be a good deal for who already owns a D14 but for future owners at least it offers better ram compatibility.


----------



## Casey Ryback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> 1.3 volts? That's nothing! Any cooler can do that. How does it cool at 1.5 volts? Only then can you tell if it is any good or not. All of those tests people are talking about are completely useless.


Well then all data is useless in this thread including OP's chip using 1.24.............

The D14 and D15 would be pretty similar at 1.5V, there's nothing groundbreaking in the design, no new metal that magically has better thermal dissipating characteristics.

The only thing that is really going to affect temperature differences is the fans, case airflow and paste used.

Other than that they are basically identical in my opinion. Which is shown in the many reviews.


----------



## Casey Ryback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only thing I don't agree with is blanket statement that D14 is better value .. better value than D15, yes, but not always true when we look at all the other excellent coolers within a couple of degrees of each other. The best value varies depending on pricing at the time One of the top coolers is usually in the $40-60 range at any given time.
> 
> We need to emphasize that tuning the case airflow will usually give us much more than 3-4 degrees cooler CPU temps, and lower other components temps as well..


It wasn't a blanket statement it was a direct reply to the D15 being $20 more expensive than the D14...............

I never mentioned other coolers.


----------



## ciarlatano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> 1.3 volts? That's nothing! Any cooler can do that. How does it cool at 1.5 volts? Only then can you tell if it is any good or not. All of those tests people are talking about are completely useless.


You AMD guys.....lol. 1.3V on a 3770K is comparatively ~1.52V on an FX chip. Only someone who doesn't care what happens to the CPU would put more than 1.34V into an Ivy Bridge, and I can tell you that if the chip used by the reviewer was a review sample, it came with very clear instructions not to do it. Also, most 3770K hit a brick wall at 4.6 or 4.7, regardless of voltage, so this may very well be the CPUs limit within recommended voltage range, and it can do it at 1.3V.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *edsai*
> 
> Thanks to let me know about it.
> 
> Well, actually I tried to mean that the D15 might be a good choice for who already owns a taller ram.
> I would say also the D15 might be a good choice for who doesn't want to worry about ram clearence issues.
> 
> The D15 might not be a good deal for who already owns a D14 but for future owners at least it offers better ram compatibility.


You are welcome.

D15 is rather expensive when others like PH-TC14PE, R1 Ultimate or R1 Universal, Silver Arrow IB-E, do just as good a job of cooling for less money. And that's not even considering coolers like TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A or TRUE Spirit 140 Power being in the $50 range and only a few degrees warmer.

The biggest differences are case airflow, then cooler, than TIM in that order.

There is also the problem of it being 75mm from center CPU toward PCIe sockets interfering with GPU placement .. meaning having to be careful what motherboard you get.

Edit:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Casey Ryback*
> 
> It wasn't a blanket statement it was a direct reply to the D15 being $20 more expensive than the D14...............
> 
> I never mentioned other coolers.


Not saying "D15" in last sentence misslead me.


----------



## doyll

dbl post


----------



## miklkit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ciarlatano*
> 
> You AMD guys.....lol. 1.3V on a 3770K is comparatively ~1.52V on an FX chip. Only someone who doesn't care what happens to the CPU would put more than 1.34V into an Ivy Bridge, and I can tell you that if the chip used by the reviewer was a review sample, it came with very clear instructions not to do it. Also, most 3770K hit a brick wall at 4.6 or 4.7, regardless of voltage, so this may very well be the CPUs limit within recommended voltage range, and it can do it at 1.3V.


It's those tiny intel CPUs that make it seem like a lot of heat, but it is just heat concentrated in a small area. More total heat needs more total cooling capacity. That is why I use the Thermalright Extreme and Silverstone HE01. They are overkill for intel but absolutely necessary for AMD. Others who try the D14, D15, Cryorig, and Phanteks just can't seem to match the clocks I get no matter what they do.

These are two short runs with exactly the same hardware at different voltages. At 1.3 volts a mere 212 would be sufficient.

 

I do agree that case air flow is very important to overall system cooling. When I'm gaming the CPU stays nice and cool but everything else heats up. Better case fans are a big help there.


----------



## G227

Hi guys!

Need an advice from experts and veterans like you







. Have posted it in NH-D15 thread but people seem to be more active here so hence the post.

I have installed NH-D15 in my R5 and so far am very pleased with it. I have been running some stress test to test my overclocks on the CPU lately and have noticed that even though CPU is like 75C when I touch the fins on the cooler they are cold/cool (pretty much all the way down. Even when I check the air coming from my case its not that warm at all.

I'm running 5820K @4.5Ghz @1.28V and on 85% temps go up to 75C which is I guess pretty good, but the fact that the heatsinks and the fins are cool has me worried that I need to repaste. I previously had AIO 240mm radiator and that one got pretty hot and the air comming out of it was hot - but perhaps thats because the liquid went thorugh it?

*So my question is - are the fins and the heatpipes supposed to get hot when CPU is this temperature?* Should I try to repaste? - I think I did a pretty good job, but









Thanks a bunch!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *G227*
> 
> Hi guys!
> 
> Need an advice from experts and veterans like you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Have posted it in NH-D15 thread but people seem to be more active here so hence the post.
> 
> I have installed NH-D15 in my R5 and so far am very pleased with it. I have been running some stress test to test my overclocks on the CPU lately and have noticed that even though CPU is like 75C when I touch the fins on the cooler they are cold/cool (pretty much all the way down. Even when I check the air coming from my case its not that warm at all.
> 
> I'm running 5820K @4.5Ghz @1.28V and on 85% temps go up to 75C which is I guess pretty good, but the fact that the heatsinks and the fins are cool has me worried that I need to repaste. I previously had AIO 240mm radiator and that one got pretty hot and the air comming out of it was hot - but perhaps thats because the liquid went thorugh it?
> 
> *So my question is - are the fins and the heatpipes supposed to get hot when CPU is this temperature?* Should I try to repaste? - I think I did a pretty good job, but
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks a bunch!


No the heat pipes do not get hot.
To explain,
The only place heat is entering pipe is over CPU area of pipe. This boiling (expansion) pushes the vapor toward ends of pipe where it condenses and pull move vapor toward end of pipe. This condenses liquid is drawn back to the CPU area by wicking on the insides of pipe where it again boils, etc. If the pipes were to be hot or even vary warm anywhere but near the CPU the heatpipe would not be working as it is intended. Even the pipe between bottom of fins and CPU block is wicking liquid back to directly over CPU and is not any hotter than near the ends of pipes.

Now that said, if the CPU to cooler seat with TIM is not done properly, the heat may not be leaving the CPU as it should. Many people use too much TIM. Link in my sig to "Ways to Better Cooling" has a post about amount of TIM to use. less it generally better .. like a dob about the size iof a large grain of rice. Just enough so when the CPU and cooler are pressed together it make a round print almost or just to the edges of CPU. Click the link below and then the link to post #15.


----------



## G227

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> No the heat pipes do not get hot.
> To explain,
> The only place heat is entering pipe is over CPU area of pipe. This boiling (expansion) pushes the vapor toward ends of pipe where it condenses and pull move vapor toward end of pipe. This condenses liquid is drawn back to the CPU area by wicking on the insides of pipe where it again boils, etc. If the pipes were to be hot or even vary warm anywhere but near the CPU the heatpipe would not be working as it is intended. Even the pipe between bottom of fins and CPU block is wicking liquid back to directly over CPU and is not any hotter than near the ends of pipes.
> 
> Now that said, if the CPU to cooler seat with TIM is not done properly, the heat may not be leaving the CPU as it should. Many people use too much TIM. Link in my sig to "Ways to Better Cooling" has a post about amount of TIM to use. less it generally better .. like a dob about the size iof a large grain of rice. Just enough so when the CPU and cooler are pressed together it make a round print almost or just to the edges of CPU. Click the link below and then the link to post #15.


Thanks this helps a lot! I guess I was used to different thing from the AIO I had - but this makes sense. As you said, I too have a habit of putting too much TIM on - did a better job second time around, but will probably repaste in the future and do it properly.


----------



## DeviceP0tat0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> It's those tiny intel CPUs that make it seem like a lot of heat, but it is just heat concentrated in a small area. More total heat needs more total cooling capacity. That is why I use the *Thermalright Extreme and Silverstone HE01*. They are overkill for intel but absolutely necessary for AMD. Others who try the D14, D15, Cryorig, and Phanteks just can't seem to match the clocks I get no matter what they do.
> 
> These are two short runs with exactly the same hardware at different voltages. At 1.3 volts a mere 212 would be sufficient.
> 
> 
> 
> I do agree that case air flow is very important to overall system cooling. When I'm gaming the CPU stays nice and cool but everything else heats up. Better case fans are a big help there.


I would like to see more data to back this up (this is the first or second result on Google for comparing heatsinks). Currently running an [email protected] on 1.3375 volts (just a tad up from stock which is 1.3320) on an NH-D14, because nothing other than the Dark Rock Pro compared to it and watercooling. it seems that either cooler is only a 2-5C difference to the D14, and a lot of reviews pin it with a 6-core Intel build (which the die is bigger). Reviews either have the coolers at the top (by hairline degree differences) or slightly below - this does not make a guy want to go and run to buy a new cooler. One review noted that the Thermalright suffers poor contact from a bending bracket.

Edited for clarity. And because I'm wrong!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeviceP0tat0*
> 
> I would like to see more data to back this up (this is the first or second result on Google for comparing heatsinks). Currently running an [email protected] on 1.3375 volts (just a tad up from stock which is 1.3320) on an NH-D14, because nothing other than the Dark Rock Pro compared to it and watercooling. it seems that either cooler is only a 2-5C difference to the D14, and a lot of reviews pin it with a 6-core Intel build (which the die is bigger). Reviews either have the coolers at the top (by hairline degree differences) or slightly below - this does not make a guy want to go and run to buy a new cooler. One review noted that the Thermalright suffers poor contact from a bending bracket.
> 
> Edited for clarity.


Could you supply a link to the review saying Thermalright has bending bracket? Sounds like it's totally bogus to me, and I've mounted and used a boatload of Thermalright coolers over the year, so would like to see how they came up with that kind of statement. Maybe they looked at the print and saw good contact in middle and not all the way around. Thing is the Thermalright base is convex, slightly more so front to back than side to side. This give it much better contact on concave IHSs while also being able to give great contact over the die on flat IHSs.


----------



## DeviceP0tat0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Could you supply a link to the review saying Thermalright has bending bracket? Sounds like it's totally bogus to me, and I've mounted and used a boatload of Thermalright coolers over the year, so would like to see how they came up with that kind of statement. Maybe they looked at the print and saw good contact in middle and not all the way around. Thing is the Thermalright base is convex, slightly more so front to back than side to side. This give it much better contact on concave IHSs while also being able to give great contact over the die on flat IHSs.


There's no escaping this screwup on my part sorry!!.. wrong tab, wrong heatsink (to be fair though, nobody sells the Ultra since 2010, at least in my country).
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1367-page3.html this is the tab I had opened (HR-22) Didn't the Ultra use AMD's clip-on tabs (or am I thinking another heatsink)?


----------



## frankenstein406

Hopefully someone can test a d14 vs d15 with both having 140mm push/pull set ups since they seem pretty close.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeviceP0tat0*
> 
> There's no escaping this screwup on my part sorry!!.. wrong tab, wrong heatsink (to be fair though, nobody sells the Ultra since 2010, at least in my country).
> http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1367-page3.html this is the tab I had opened (HR-22) Didn't the Ultra use AMD's clip-on tabs (or am I thinking another heatsink)?


Thanks.
Nothing for you to be apologizing for. The reviewer is to blame, not you.

Yeah, Ultra has been out of production a long time now, but is still a very good cooler. Last I knew updated mount is still available, but hard to find. The old coolers have a thicker base than most of the new ones, All that have the thick base use the same mount as Ultra uses.









Sadly the reviewer doesn't know what they are talking about . They remove the plastic washer for barrel studs which means top mount backet is lower / closer to motherboard / cpu on front side, then mount cooler with crossbar and tighten the tension / pressure bolt in middle of cooler until it gaps slightly one front and back of base. This tension bolt pushs directly in the middle of cooler base, meaning even pressure is created over entire base, meaning if offset of cooler was creating more weight on back of cooler it would show in the TIM print. But the 2nd TIM print has best contact dead center on the CPU. Also the tension bolt is for up to about 100psf, so of course it can case the crossbar to spring up a little when tightened. The metal is not bending, it is flexing. A bend is permanent. A flex returns to original shape.


----------



## miklkit

I use those coolers because they come with the most powerful fans. With similar fans to the others they would perform about the same as the others I believe. I see a direct correlation between fan speed and CPU temperatures. Also case air flow makes a big difference.

You have a great 8370! I don't have a 4.6 run recorded but mine needs 1.476 vcore for 4.7. Then it runs fine at 5 ghz @ 1.5 vcore. Then I got a 2nd 8370 and it's a piggy needing 1.548 vcore for 5 ghz.

The Thermalright AMD mount isn't that good but is good enough. I don't really trust it and in fact damaged a motherboard working with it. The HE01 AMD mount is much simpler and stronger.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frankenstein406*
> 
> Hopefully someone can test a d14 vs d15 with both having 140mm push/pull set ups since they seem pretty close.


Read the first paragraph of my original post. It is push pull with the same fans on both coolers.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Read the first paragraph of my original post. It is push pull with the same fans on both coolers.


But different TIM, if I remember correctly.









Sense D15 was released much testing has been done, most of which is not done with much accuracy or data on how it was done making it impossible to test and see if results are accurate.

The first thing I look at in reviews is how and where the cooler intake airflow temperature is monitored.

Most use room ambient to an accuracy of 0.5c and only check it before and after a test run.
For accurate results the temperature of air going into cooler needs to monitored at same time the CPU temperature readings are taken.
Using room ambient is at the very least ill-informed, a lack of common sense, or simply stupid. Sorry to be so blunt, but it doesn't take much to know the air a meter or two away is very likely not the same as it is gong into cooler. Assuming it is the same is .. well .. assuming. And assuming cannot be done here. Might as well just assume which cooler is better and not even bother doing a 'stage show', because that is all most reviews are.

It's even worse when testing in a case. Room ambient is never the same as cooler intake inside a case. If you think it is, please prove me wrong using accepted scientific testing standards. I'm betting a pint of your favorite you will be buying me my favorite.


----------



## turboman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> It's even worse when testing in a case. Room ambient is never the same as cooler intake inside a case. If you think it is, please prove me wrong using accepted scientific testing standards. I'm betting a pint of your favorite you will be buying me my favorite.


Before I take you up on the bet, can you please define scientifically "same". Two measurements are never going to be the same. So easy bet for you.








So a margin has to be defined, which is meaningful in terms of effect. For me, a meaningful criteria would be CPU temperature. At a CPU temperature of 70degrC, I would consider a meaningful temperature difference to be around 3 or 4 degrC.
What about that? Looking forward to drinking a beer together.


----------



## DeviceP0tat0

Speaking of compounds, would LM (such as Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra) be a good idea, or very bad? Entertaining the idea, not necessarily going to do it.

It is a good clocker, but current motherboard has a faulty SB, so that's going from a Crosshair to a Sabertooth. I honestly don't know how this motherboard isn't completely dead by now though, considering the parts that rely on that.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *turboman*
> 
> Before I take you up on the bet, can you please define scientifically "same". Two measurements are never going to be the same. So easy bet for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So a margin has to be defined, which is meaningful in terms of effect. For me, a meaningful criteria would be CPU temperature. At a CPU temperature of 70degrC, I would consider a meaningful temperature difference to be around 3 or 4 degrC.
> What about that? Looking forward to drinking a beer together.


Indeed, Cooler intake being 3-4c above room is very good. But if you can not monitor cooler intake air temperature and room air temperature to within a degree, you need to get thermometers that work.
Here is what I use. Well, that is one of them. Simple, low-cost and accurate to withing +/-0.5c or less on each unit. I have three of this kind and all are too close to being the same for me to tell any difference in their accuracy. Obviously we can't accurately check our body temp with them but can easily see well less than half a degree changes in room or cooler intake air temps.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/0_20#post_22319171

If your system is very well tuned, as in case fans are speed controlled by component temps, don't be surprised if at low load / idle the case is warmer. System fans don't need to keep case as cool at idle as under heavy load.









But before you 'pay for my pint, could you tell me how you are going to do your testing?
And I would like to know where you are located.


----------



## Medenyx

Respect to all!

I am doing my own project, where I would need to really COOL DOWN a 500W Power LED, with its widest dimensions of 82mm x 82mm (and with the critical light - yellow part of 50mm x 50mm)
as you can see here:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361083866130?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&var=630428403686&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

What are the exact dimensions of the Noctua "cooling" surface (toward processor)?

It would be 'cool' if they at least match ...

If smaller, where to find the one with proper (big enough) surface ...

... regardless of mounting problems, or so ...

Thanks in advance, ...
And a Happy New Year to all of you!

m


----------

