# The Gaming Flashback - A Retro Gaming Periodical



## CynicalUnicorn

I'm going to disagree to be contrary.









(I didn't actually read it yet. I just wanted to be first and subscribe lol.)


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## Rob27shred

Subbed







I did not have too much experience with the Saturn personally, I had a couple friends who owned one & did play some of the games mentioned. Although I never had one myself nor did I get to truly enjoy the games like I would've if I had owned a Saturn. I did want one back then but was still dependent on my parents to buy such expensive things at the time (I was 14 in 95). So I had to choose between the PS & Saturn that Christmas, I went with the PS. Can't say I regret that decision especially considering the PS eventually got Metal Gear Solid which was huge for me since I consider the original Metal Gear the game that made me a gamer. TBH though, after reading this blog it does make me want to play some the Saturn games I never got to finish or play at all. I wonder what emulation options exist for the Saturn?

Anyways, glad to see this blog put up here on OCN for sure. Retro gaming is rarely discussed here (rightly so too, I mean it is OverClock.Net







) & is something I think a lot of us will enjoy discussing. Looking forward to future blogs & great job with this 1st one @Wolfsbora!


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## Wolfsbora

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> I'm going to disagree to be contrary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I didn't actually read it yet. I just wanted to be first and subscribe lol.)


Haha, way to go, Cynical... If your mother wasn't the angel that she is...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rob27shred*
> 
> Subbed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not have too much experience with the Saturn personally, I had a couple friends who owned one & did play some of the games mentioned. Although I never had one myself nor did I get to truly enjoy the games like I would've if I had owned a Saturn. I did want one back then but was still dependent on my parents to buy such expensive things at the time (I was 14 in 95). So I had to choose between the PS & Saturn that Christmas, I went with the PS. Can't say I regret that decision especially considering the PS eventually got Metal Gear Solid which was huge for me since I consider the original Metal Gear the game that made me a gamer. TBH though, after reading this blog it does make me want to play some the Saturn games I never got to finish or play at all. I wonder what emulation options exist for the Saturn?
> 
> Anyways, glad to see this blog put up here on OCN for sure. Retro gaming is rarely discussed here (rightly so too, I mean it is OverClock.Net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) & is something I think a lot of us will enjoy discussing. Looking forward to future blogs & great job with this 1st one @Wolfsbora!


A fellow Pittsburgher and Metal Gear Solid fan. We are instant friends! I'm with you on that, the PS had such amazing titles (and a lot more to choose from), including Metal Gear Solid. I highly encourage you to check out some game footage of Albert Odyssey, Panzer Dragoon Saga, or any others mentioned above. Plus, I'm sure others have some good recommendations too.

And, thank you for the kind words! Keep checking back, we'll be updating the OP with new articles as they arrive.


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## .theMetal

Subscribed for the tasty read-ables! (can't comment on this one since I never owned a saturn, although I did grow up with a genesis)


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## madpossum

Saturn = great console for SHMUPs and fighters (a trend that followed with the Dreamcast).


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## Wolfsbora

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *.theMetal*
> 
> Subscribed for the tasty read-ables! (can't comment on this one since I never owned a saturn, although I did grow up with a genesis)


I didn't own a Genesis until this past August! I'm in search of a copy of Phantasy Star IV. I hear that it is incredible!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madpossum*
> 
> Saturn = great console for SHMUPs and fighters (a trend that followed with the Dreamcast).


I have to say that the PC Engine Core Grafx (TurboGrafx in North America) is the best for SHMUPS, but the Saturn does really well there. However, I do agree that the Saturn is a beast for fighters, it's arcade ports are amazing (nothing beats the Neo Geo, though, in that realm







).


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## .theMetal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wolfsbora*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *.theMetal*
> 
> Subscribed for the tasty read-ables! (can't comment on this one since I never owned a saturn, although I did grow up with a genesis)
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't own a Genesis until this past August! I'm in search of a copy of Phantasy Star IV. I hear that it is incredible!
Click to expand...

Nice! And since I'm already pulling this off topic, I will spoiler this:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Be careful with the controller ports. Ours wore out over time, either with the controller plugs or the ports in the system. Eventually we had to rig rubber bands and set them up on blocks to pull/pull in the right direction to keep all the buttons working









Also my absolute favorite game for that system is Rocket Knight Adventures. It was one of the best side scrollers, I still go back and play it. Just great music and graphics, and fun level design and bosses. I highly suggest you manage a play through of that, even if you have to on an emulator.


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## Wolfsbora

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *.theMetal*
> 
> Nice! And since I'm already pulling this off topic, I will spoiler this:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful with the controller ports. Ours wore out over time, either with the controller plugs or the ports in the system. Eventually we had to rig rubber bands and set them up on blocks to pull/pull in the right direction to keep all the buttons working
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also my absolute favorite game for that system is Rocket Knight Adventures. It was one of the best side scrollers, I still go back and play it. Just great music and graphics, and fun level design and bosses. I highly suggest you manage a play through of that, even if you have to on an emulator.


I'll have to get my hands on Rocket Knight Adventures! I definitely don't have that one or I'm sure I would have played it by now.


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## Stalker

The Saturn was probably one of the reasons I got into gaming. I didn't own one, but me and my bro always went to the local internet cafe to play Need For Speed








Ah good times...


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## Wolfsbora

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stalker*
> 
> The Saturn was probably one of the reasons I got into gaming. I didn't own one, but me and my bro always went to the local internet cafe to play Need For Speed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah good times...


The graphics were incredible for this generation. Racing games were excellent on the Saturn and Need for Speed is a lot of fun, even to this day.


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## Rob27shred

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wolfsbora*
> 
> Haha, way to go, Cynical... If your mother wasn't the angel that she is...
> A fellow Pittsburgher and Metal Gear Solid fan. We are instant friends! I'm with you on that, the PS had such amazing titles (and a lot more to choose from), including Metal Gear Solid. I highly encourage you to check out some game footage of Albert Odyssey, Panzer Dragoon Saga, or any others mentioned above. Plus, I'm sure others have some good recommendations too.
> 
> And, thank you for the kind words! Keep checking back, we'll be updating the OP with new articles as they arrive.










I wish I could say go Steelers but alas not this year...







I will definitely check out the gameplay footage & look forward to some retro gaming banter on this thread in the future.


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## catmmm

Subbed yo.

I love me some retro gaming.

I never had a Sega Saturn though.


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## Wolfsbora

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catmmm*
> 
> Subbed yo.
> 
> I love me some retro gaming.
> 
> I never had a Sega Saturn though.


Get one! Stop being a wuss!


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## CynicalUnicorn

Can't you get reproductions of them for cheap? I mean, it obviously isn't the same as the original, but if you want to play games on actual hardware rather than an emulator it's certainly a start.


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## Aaron_Henderson

Saturn will always be one of favourite consoles...right up there with Dreamcast. I was one of the kids who grew up with one though...I wanted it so bad, and finally got a used one not too long after it's release...I think we payed $200 for it used or something back then. We didn't buy many games for some reason though...we rented them constantly though, like multiple times per week. I think I had even rented a Saturn before we were able to afford one. I remember everyone hated it, and ignored it, everyone else had Playstation, and eventually Nintendo 64. But something about Sega has always just appealed to me, because of the arcades I am sure, and the Saturn was one of those systems that was really able to get close to arcade versions, and had spectacular 2D games. Could also do some decent 3D too though of course!

In terms of aesthetics (console + controllers), I think it probably is my favourite console of all time. Dreamcast just had far better developers overall, IMO. Though these days everyone has played them, and the Saturn has a largely unexplored library for most people. I used to abosolutely love Nights into Dreams as a kid, but I am not so fond of it so much anymore...when I was young, it was something that finally gave Crash Bandicoot and Mario 64 somewhat of a run...just being able to walk in 3D in between the flight sections that make up the majority of the game was amazing to me back then lol

Also, I LOVE light gun games, because of arcades of course. But the Saturn was awesome...Virtua Cop 2 and Area 51 are two of my favs...all time fav. on Dreamcast though with House of the Dead 2.


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## catmmm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wolfsbora*
> 
> Get one! Stop being a wuss!


Just spent all of my monies on a new monitor.









Priorities man.


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## Dimensive

I only played the Saturn when I was able to rent it from Blockbuster years and years ago. I had fun with Rayman, but that's all I ever played. Wolf, since you have obtained a Genesis recently, find Beyond Oasis and thank me later.


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## CynicalUnicorn

Oh yeah, and another interesting thing about the Saturn in terms of hardware. Its GPU used quadrilaterals while rendering. GPUs today (and most of the others at the time) use triangles instead. They're called geometric primitives and are more or less the building blocks of a 3D-rendered image.


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## Superplush

I have to say that this is making me want to dig out my Saturn. I grew up with one and spent all my money on it, to this day I still own the lil guy with a memory cartridge, makes me "Awwh" everytime I start her up and see the 'set time' screen and it thinks it's still 1998 or so.

I will say one thing, I was one of the lucky ones that bought some of those games before they became really expensive. I do own a pristine copy of Panzer Dragoon saga and it is one of the highest-prized games of the era. Burning rangers was also a cheesey but fun game about firefighters ! Sadly I did want some of the latest games for the console but they were never available: Radiant Silvergun. (Youtube play link) or Deep fear (The last Europe Saturn game, youtube play link)

I will always love the Sega era of consoles. I dare say they were ahead of their time when released.


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## madweazl

/find rotten tomato
/fling rotten tomato

Outside side of Abe's Odyssey, Sonic was the best side scroller ever! With that out of the way...

The Saturn was awesome! I was the only dummy among my friends that decided to buy one instead of the other platforms. It came bundled with Virtua Cop/Virtua Fighter (neither of which were much fun for me) but the entire decision behind the purchase was Need For Speed! At the time, it just seemed like the most amazing racing game ever! Play time could be measured in months, not hours. I never picked up many titles for it; we did rent a number of games (little tougher to find where we lived) but the couple titles that I had purchased were played more than any game I've ever touched since with the exception of Everquest some years later when I built my first PC. I swear, my buddy and I would sit in front of that Saturn ALL day long battling for the quickest time in NFS (this carried over to Mario Kart too where I'm sure I'm still the fastest man on the planet...).


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## Wolfsbora

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Oh yeah, and another interesting thing about the Saturn in terms of hardware. Its GPU used quadrilaterals while rendering. GPUs today (and most of the others at the time) use triangles instead. They're called geometric primitives and are more or less the building blocks of a 3D-rendered image.


Yeah, you have to love the uniqueness of the way that it rendered that way rather than the standard! Great fact, @CynicalUnicorn!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Superplush*
> 
> I have to say that this is making me want to dig out my Saturn. I grew up with one and spent all my money on it, to this day I still own the lil guy with a memory cartridge, makes me "Awwh" everytime I start her up and see the 'set time' screen and it thinks it's still 1998 or so.
> 
> I will say one thing, I was one of the lucky ones that bought some of those games before they became really expensive. I do own a pristine copy of Panzer Dragoon saga and it is one of the highest-prized games of the era. Burning rangers was also a cheesey but fun game about firefighters ! Sadly I did want some of the latest games for the console but they were never available: Radiant Silvergun. (Youtube play link) or Deep fear (The last Europe Saturn game, youtube play link)
> 
> I will always love the Sega era of consoles. I dare say they were ahead of their time when released.


Thanks for the links! I'm going to check them out right now. I'm looking for more titles to enjoy. And, you're crazy lucky that you have Panzer Dragoon Saga! The complete set goes for thousands!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madweazl*
> 
> /find rotten tomato
> /fling rotten tomato
> 
> Outside side of Abe's Odyssey, Sonic was the best side scroller ever! With that out of the way...
> 
> The Saturn was awesome! I was the only dummy among my friends that decided to buy one instead of the other platforms. It came bundled with Virtua Cop/Virtua Fighter (neither of which were much fun for me) but the entire decision behind the purchase was Need For Speed! At the time, it just seemed like the most amazing racing game ever! Play time could be measured in months, not hours. I never picked up many titles for it; we did rent a number of games (little tougher to find where we lived) but the couple titles that I had purchased were played more than any game I've ever touched since with the exception of Everquest some years later when I built my first PC. I swear, my buddy and I would sit in front of that Saturn ALL day long battling for the quickest time in NFS (this carried over to Mario Kart too where I'm sure I'm still the fastest man on the planet...).


Need for Speed is an incredible game! And, even spawned a fun series. I remember playing it on my buddy's Saturn. Awesome game.


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## Wolfsbora

*Current article:*
*The God of Consoles that is the SNES*

Image credit - Lawrence.com

Do you still remember when you bought your first console with your own money? I certainly can. It was 1992, I was 9 years old. We had had our Atari 2600 for years by this point, and our well-used Nintendo Entertainment System had provided hundreds of hours of fun (and frustration).

I had saved up $200 of my own money from doing chores, saving up birthday money, and straight up begging my parents for money. Once I collected all of the necessary funds, the time had come. I can still remember going to Kay Bee Toys at Riverside Mall and asking the store clerk for a brand new Super Nintendo Entertainment System. The box was so bright, shiny, and I swear it was glowing! The 30-minute drive home seemed like an eternity. It probably didn't help that I was counting every mile marker that we passed. Once home, I carefully opened the box, removed the protective Styrofoam, and proceeded to gently remove the contents. There it was in all its gray, boxy goodness! I got it all hooked up, popped Super Mario World into its waiting cartridge slot, powered it on, and my oh my, such beautiful graphics and amazing colors started to warm my young eyes!

Image credit - emuparadise.me
So beautiful to a young Wolfy

Let's face it, no other console during the life of the SNES, or before it, had the game lineup quite like Nintendo's answer to the Sega Genesis. It had great first-party titles and incredible third-party support. Titles like Zelda: A Link to the Past, Mario Kart, Chrono Trigger, the Final Fantasy series, F-Zero, Secret of Mana, etc., etc., etc. The list of great titles goes on and on. One of those many amazing titles is Donkey Kong Country, a game that pushed the limits of the hardware and accomplished a look far greater than 16-bit processing can do. Beautiful, colorful, dimensional sprites along with incredibly crafted levels and challenges, make the game one of the all-time best titles for the console and quite possibly one of the best side-scrolling platformers ever made (the sequels just didn't have quite the same magic as the first game, unfortunately).

Image credit - emuparadise.me
Ooo, that's gotta hurt!

One of the biggest differences of the Super Nintendo over other consoles of the time is the ability of hardware expansion through its game cartridges. That's right, the game cartridges could contain more memory, added FX chips, and additional hardware to push the stock hardware of the SNES, thus making the Super Nintendo more than just another 16-bit console. One game that took full advantage of this feature is Star Fox. The game included an FX chip that allowed for 3D-style rendering, making Star Fox a true innovator in the field.

Image credit - Wikipedia.org
Such yummy polygons!

Lastly, let's not forget that the very much beloved Sony PlayStation is a result of Nintendo's idea of even further hardware expansion of the Super Nintendo. Without the SNES, we may never have had the PlayStation and its incredible catalog of 1000+ titles. Though the PlayStation ranks just below the Super Nintendo in my personal list of console favorites, it is still one of my all-time favorite consoles. So, thank you, SNES, for spawning another true gaming console classic!

What are your favorite Super Nintendo titles? Drop a post below to let us know!

(Article can also be found in the OP along with previous articles)


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## Dimensive

I got my first SNES when I traded my friend a pack of cigarettes for his (yea, the one I sent you)... I held on to Super Mario World and The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, and in the past few months have been collecting more of the best titles from the console. You just can't go wrong with the SNES, it produced Super Metroid, which is one of the best Metroid games ever, DKC Trilogy, Mega Man X, Super Mario RPG, and let us not forget the amazing Super Game Boy! I mean, who wouldn't want to play their Game Boy collection on the big screen back in the day--definitely a step up from the original Game Boy.

The SNES will always be one of the best consoles in gaming history and it's always awesome to see the games being played & broken by speedrunners all around the world.


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## Wolfsbora

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimensive*
> 
> I got my first SNES when I traded my friend a pack of cigarettes for his (yea, the one I sent you)... I held on to Super Mario World and The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, and in the past few months have been collecting more of the best titles from the console. You just can't go wrong with the SNES, it produced Super Metroid, which is one of the best Metroid games ever, DKC Trilogy, Mega Man X, Super Mario RPG, and let us not forget the amazing Super Game Boy! I mean, who wouldn't want to play their Game Boy collection on the big screen back in the day--definitely a step up from the original Game Boy.
> 
> The SNES will always be one of the best consoles in gaming history and it's always awesome to see the games being played & broken by speedrunners all around the world.


I'm excited to show you what I'm doing with your SNES. It may be fried but I have a good use for it and I think you'll approve.

Btw, I really want to get Super Metroid, especially a boxed copy! That is on my list of titles that I'm in search of, same with Mega Man X, and Super Mario RPG.

Speaking of speedrunners, I'm lining up a former world record holding speedrunners to be on the podcast. Stay tuned.

Also, I'd like to mention that I'm all ears when it comes to retro gaming topics. These articles are for you folks and allow me to relive some fun memories. What would you like to see?


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## Dimensive

Well you have piqued my interest! A boxed copy of any SNES game will set you back quite a bit. I only buy carts then buy cases from retrogamecases.com, love the quality and service!


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## andrews2547

Here's a couple of screenshots from my favourite retro game











Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


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## Wolfsbora

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimensive*
> 
> Well you have piqued my interest! A boxed copy of any SNES game will set you back quite a bit. I only buy carts then buy cases from retrogamecases.com, love the quality and service!


Thanks for the recommendation! It appears that they make some really high quality cases.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> Here's a couple of screenshots from my favourite retro game
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Haha, I don't know that that came out on the SNES...


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## CynicalUnicorn

Also remember that like half of all SNES games in existence got a GBA port. That's how I was introduced to SMW.







Yoshi's Island got six extra levels too, and also copied the sound effects from Yoshi's Story rather than the original SNES launch.

Let's see, what else? Mario Kart: Super Circuit got all of the Super Mario Kart tracks as part of the "Extra" cups, though they were missing obstacles and hazards from the original game. Still a nice bonus though.


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## Dimensive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wolfsbora*
> 
> Thanks for the recommendation! It appears that they make some really high quality cases.


They really are high quality, nice glossy prints and standard case. Bought all my GB/GBC/GBA/SNES cases from there.


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## Wolfsbora

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Also remember that like half of all SNES games in existence got a GBA port. That's how I was introduced to SMW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yoshi's Island got six extra levels too, and also copied the sound effects from Yoshi's Story rather than the original SNES launch.
> 
> Let's see, what else? Mario Kart: Super Circuit got all of the Super Mario Kart tracks as part of the "Extra" cups, though they were missing obstacles and hazards from the original game. Still a nice bonus though.


Yeah, the GBA was basically a SNES Portable. That's not a bad thing at all. Gave me another way to play A Link to the Past.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimensive*
> 
> They really are high quality, nice glossy prints and standard case. Bought all my GB/GBC/GBA/SNES cases from there.


Wow! I really like those. I may need to start pricing some out. My only CIB SNES games so far are Final Fantasy II, Final Fantasy III, and my awesome Super Game Boy (smaller box version). I have 50 games that need cases/boxes.


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## Wolfsbora

Just a friendly reminder that we welcome all random retro gaming discussion over at the Official OCN Retrogaming thread. It's a great place where we share our collections and talk about what we are currently playing.


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## neurotix

I'm neurotix, I am the owner of OCN Retro - The Overclock.net Retrogaming Club, and I would love to see you guys over there too.


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## Wolfsbora

What would everyone like to read about in an upcoming article? I'm currently writing about a lesser used but still well known handheld from the early to mid-90s that I think you all will enjoy!


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## catmmm

Sega Master System


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## Aaron_Henderson

Neo Geo Pocket Color? Atari Lynx?









What about a piece on arcades? Something a lot of younger members might never get to experience in the same way the older members might have. Also, what about your Neo Geo?


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## CynicalUnicorn

Now that it's dead and long forgotten, you should do a piece on the Wii U.


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## Wolfsbora

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catmmm*
> 
> Sega Master System


Oooo, good idea!! I should have known you'd want that one!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aaron_Henderson*
> 
> Neo Geo Pocket Color? Atari Lynx?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about a piece on arcades? Something a lot of younger members might never get to experience in the same way the older members might have. Also, what about your Neo Geo?


Hint on the next article: you just named it.







As far as arcades go, that is my favorite topic...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> Now that it's dead and long forgotten, you should do a piece on the Wii U.


The WiiU just isn't old enough yet. Though, the GameCube could be fun. Technically, the original Wii could be an article...


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## CynicalUnicorn

The Wii is just an overclocked GameCube anyway.


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## Wolfsbora

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> The Wii is just an overclocked GameCube anyway.


Well said. However, the GameCube is one of the best consoles of all time, and I guarantee you that more and more people will agree as time goes on. The library was amazing, even if it doesn't come close to the PS2's or even the Wii's libraries.


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## catmmm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wolfsbora*
> 
> Well said. However, the GameCube is one of the best consoles of all time, and I guarantee you that more and more people will agree as time goes on. The library was amazing, even if it doesn't come close to the PS2's or even the Wii's libraries.


I agree with this. GameCube is a close second to N64 in my eyes.


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## Wolfsbora

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catmmm*
> 
> I agree with this. GameCube is a close second to N64 in my eyes.


Most definitely! Btw, you guys should really join the discussion over at the Official OCN Retrogaming Club!


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## Rob27shred

Ahh the good ole' SNES!







Great topic here, definitely one of my all time favorite consoles. I got mine for Christmas in 92, can still remember freaking out like I was having an epileptic seizure after unwrapping it!







Think something along the lines of these,



The best part of that Christmas was the fact we had the whole family at our house for it that year. Which in turn finally made my parents give into my requests to let me put my video game systems in my bedroom, which they disallowed (rightly so in retrospect) before this. Once I got the SNES hooked up to my TV my 1st order of business was to pop in Zelda: A Link to the Past & man was I blown away by it! This actually marks my 1st time I ever stayed up till the morning light playing a video game. Zelda: ALttP had me so enthralled I didn't even bother taking the other games I got out of their boxes & SMW was still in the SNES packaging till the next day.









I have very fond memories of my SNES as it was easily my most played system at that time even after I manged to get a Genesis with a Sega CD. The game selection was just better on SNES IMO, don't get me wrong my Genesis was heavily used & loved by me as well. Although if I had to pick one it would be the SNES. The only let down the SNES ever gave me was the fact no Metal Gear games ever made it to the system. While I did have great fun with the Genesis & Sega CD their was just too much shovel ware on it compared to the SNES. I have many more memories of renting or buying Genesis games that were flat out terrible than I do with the SNES. I mostly used my Genesis for exculsives & games like Mortal Kombat that were much less censored on Genesis. People forget there was a time the Nintendo stamp of quality actually meant something, back then it really did mean that Nintendo's game library was guaranteed to have higher quality then it's competitor's.

I'm gonna cut this post short because I could write a book on the fun I had with the SNES & all of it's games. Great post to keep this thread rolling @Wolfsbora!







For a suggestion I would to see a post about the old Tiger handheld games. Sure they were very low tech even at the time & not truly consoles, but when I hear retro gaming they are one of the 1st things that come to my mind.


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## Wolfsbora

Thank you for sharing your SNES story!! It was a really fun read. I can honestly say, my experience with the SNES was very similar. I have over 30 consoles now, but the SNES still gets 90% of my attention.

Thank you for the suggestion on the Tiger handhelds. I had loads of those things as a kid. I'd play them for about 10 minutes and then jump back onto my GameBoy for hours.


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## neurotix

Is this solely your thread and articles Wolfsbora?

I'd be willing to write a piece on the Sega CD and attempt to redeem it as being an overpriced FMV console. (It really did have a lot of good games that were actually REAL games.)


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## madpossum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *neurotix*
> 
> Is this solely your thread and articles Wolfsbora?
> 
> I'd be willing to write a piece on the Sega CD and attempt to redeem it as being an overpriced FMV console. (It really did have a lot of good games that were actually REAL games.)


Snatcher and Lunar alone made my Sega CD worth every penny.


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## neurotix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madpossum*
> 
> Snatcher and Lunar alone made my Sega CD worth every penny.


Vay is pretty decent too. So is Popful Mail though this one is quite difficult. For whatever reason they made it WAY harder when released here, this is not the only Working Designs game where they decided to up the difficulty to a ridiculous level for the American release (?).

Here's the ad for it I saw in every magazine back then that made me REALLY want the game and a Sega CD when I was a kid, sadly I wouldn't play the game til like 20 years later and find out it's just too difficult:


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## CynicalUnicorn

I prefer IMAPful mail to POPful mail personally.









"Over two hours of dialogue!" is an interesting selling point.


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## Aaron_Henderson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *neurotix*
> 
> Vay is pretty decent too. So is Popful Mail though this one is quite difficult. For whatever reason they made it WAY harder when released here, this is not the only Working Designs game where they decided to up the difficulty to a ridiculous level for the American release (?).
> 
> Here's the ad for it I saw in every magazine back then that made me REALLY want the game and a Sega CD when I was a kid, sadly I wouldn't play the game til like 20 years later and find out it's just too difficult:


I had a small poster of that when I was young...maybe I just ripped the ad out of a magazine or something, which I tended to do. I have never played the game though


----------



## neurotix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aaron_Henderson*
> 
> I had a small poster of that when I was young...maybe I just ripped the ad out of a magazine or something, which I tended to do. I have never played the game though


I think I ripped the ad out and put it on my wall too.


----------



## Wolfsbora

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *neurotix*
> 
> Is this solely your thread and articles Wolfsbora?
> 
> I'd be willing to write a piece on the Sega CD and attempt to redeem it as being an overpriced FMV console. (It really did have a lot of good games that were actually REAL games.)


This is something we may consider!







PM me and we'll discuss your idea.


----------



## yetta

I see a lot of love for the Saturn on here, so I thought I might share this video about the Saturn being cracked after 20 years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOyfZex7B3E

As for my console past. First I had a Famicom which my dad bought me when I was five. Loved that thing to bits, so much rage, groundings and hidings because of it. Save games would have been nice.

Few years later the mega-drive 2 which blew my little mind, especially the pace of Sonic.

Then x-mas 98 I got the Playstation, which of course was already out for some time. I only got a memory card for it in 2000, so try and imagine what it felt like coming home from school and your mom switched off the PS on the last disc of Final Fantasy 7 near the battle with Sephiroth. No save game, much sadness.

That was the last console I owned. Too bad all my consoles got stolen, South Africa the magnificent. So I stuck to pc from there on, I left the console peasant race for the pc master race.

I must admit the Dreamcast is possibly my favourite, despite not ever owning one and only having played on it once. So sad Sega ended up where they are now.


----------



## Wolfsbora

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yetta*
> 
> I see a lot of love for the Saturn on here, so I thought I might share this video about the Saturn being cracked after 20 years.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOyfZex7B3E
> 
> As for my console past. First I had a Famicom which my dad bought me when I was five. Loved that thing to bits, so much rage, groundings and hidings because of it. Save games would have been nice.
> 
> Few years later the mega-drive 2 which blew my little mind, especially the pace of Sonic.
> 
> Then x-mas 98 I got the Playstation, which of course was already out for some time. I only got a memory card for it in 2000, so try and imagine what it felt like coming home from school and your mom switched off the PS on the last disc of Final Fantasy 7 near the battle with Sephiroth. No save game, much sadness.
> 
> That was the last console I owned. Too bad all my consoles got stolen, South Africa the magnificent. So I stuck to pc from there on, I left the console peasant race for the pc master race.
> 
> I must admit the Dreamcast is possibly my favourite, despite not ever owning one and only having played on it once. So sad Sega ended up where they are now.


You would fit quite well into the OCN Retrogaming Club!! You have had quite the history with consoles. Btw, at least Sega is still around and you are able to play Sega IPs on a plethora of systems.


----------



## cutty1998

I will never forget how pumped I was when I bought my first SNES ! I got it from a pawn shop in WPB,Fl back in 1994 for $40 ! I just had to have one to play MK2 , Donkey Kong Country and Super Mario world. My 16-bit gaming adventure started in 1993 though,when My Girlfriend and I bought a Genesis from Toys-R-Us for about $200. We used to love to play Sonic 1 & 2 together ,and I was also totally addicted to NHLPA 93' Hockey ,especially because it still had the fighting ,and blood! My Friends and I were so ultra competitive with the Hockey. I remember controllers getting winged around ,and even chairs flying when there were embarrassing blowout losses,and knockouts! . One of the biggest advantages the SNES had over the Genny, was the Sound,(It had a sound chip made by Sony) ,that was leaps and bounds ahead of Segas basic bleeps and blurbs. I was actually able to find a S-video cable for the SNES . Also the ability for the SNES to do 5 scrolls(Donkey Kong Country) ,which made 2D side scrollers look almost 3D-ish ,while Sega could do maybe 3 scrolls ! OK ,so MK 1 was better on Sega, but we all know that MK2 was much better on the SNES ,and much closer to the arcade version! If you were around back in that era, the thing was to get as close to arcade quality as possible ! Then the Playstation came out ...................... Resident Evil changed everything for me. Those were great times!


----------



## Jimbags

Need a snes for my collection so bad after reading this. My first console was Sega master system II, with Alex kidd built in. I only currently own 2 sega consoles. Megadrive and the almighty dreamcast. So sad about dreamcast, combination of expensive, not a huge library and just way ahead of its time. Everyone remember the games on the VMU for Dreamcast? :-D
Neber had a saturn, but really want one.


----------



## neurotix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jimbags*
> 
> Need a snes for my collection so bad after reading this. My first console was Sega master system II, with Alex kidd built in. I only currently own 2 sega consoles. Megadrive and the almighty dreamcast. So sad about dreamcast, combination of expensive, not a huge library and just way ahead of its time. Everyone remember the games on the VMU for Dreamcast? :-D
> Neber had a saturn, but really want one.


Get yourself another Master System!

The Dreamcast is fantastic, I agree it died out before it's time. I do remember the VMU games, in fact, there's homebrew ones and a guy around that still programs them. (Street Race VMU)


----------



## frostbite

I had a dreamcast and a saturn and all other consoles from pawn/ thrift stores, I still have a gameboy pocket that I use at work when netfix doesnt work.

I had a snes and a neo-geo also


----------



## hellphyre

Sega owned me until PlayStation.

P.S. Pittsburgh strong in here....


----------



## alltoasters

The snes was the first console I had all to myself. It was given to me in either 2001 or 2002. I'd not seen one before, but had already spent my childhood on a playstation since '97, and my brother had a n64 for a few years by then as well.

I had a bunch of games with it, most notable being DKC 1&3, Yoshis island and Fzero. Being in europe, I didn't find out about all the amazing games we missed out on until later. It and the original playstation are the only console I own and still use because I moved on to pc gaming. I've got a sd2snes now so I can play all the games that were either never released here, or are unobtainable.

Quality of snes games is quite variable. It didn't have the longest of lifespans, but it made the most of the time it had, especially its last few years. Developers really learned to make the most of it as time went on. Compare Final Fantasy IV to Donkey Kong Country!

1995 was the sweet year for the snes, and therefore probably games in general. Late enough into its lifespan the devs knew it well but before all the money went to the next gen. I've played the majority of the snes library now, and Chrono Trigger is the best game by far. Given the greatness of the other games, that is really saying something. I'm glad I missed out on it as a kid, as an adult playing it for the first time in 2014, and knowing a fair bit about actually developing games, its quality was perhaps even more evident. 1995 also gave the super famicom Tenchi Souzou, a real forgotten work of art. Fortunately that one did make it to europe!

In conclusion, the snes was the high water mark of consoles. It was just powerful enough to give games depth and imapct, but was limited enough that real care had to be used to make games look and feel presentable. It took gaming as a diversion and single hanedly dragged it up to an artform.


----------



## neurotix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alltoasters*
> 
> The snes was the first console I had all to myself. It was given to me in either 2001 or 2002. I'd not seen one before, but had already spent my childhood on a playstation since '97, and my brother had a n64 for a few years by then as well.
> 
> I had a bunch of games with it, most notable being DKC 1&3, Yoshis island and Fzero. Being in europe, I didn't find out about all the amazing games we missed out on until later. It and the original playstation are the only console I own and still use because I moved on to pc gaming. I've got a sd2snes now so I can play all the games that were either never released here, or are unobtainable.
> 
> Quality of snes games is quite variable. It didn't have the longest of lifespans, but it made the most of the time it had, especially its last few years. Developers really learned to make the most of it as time went on. Compare Final Fantasy IV to Donkey Kong Country!
> 
> 1995 was the sweet year for the snes, and therefore probably games in general. Late enough into its lifespan the devs knew it well but before all the money went to the next gen. I've played the majority of the snes library now, and Chrono Trigger is the best game by far. Given the greatness of the other games, that is really saying something. I'm glad I missed out on it as a kid, as an adult playing it for the first time in 2014, and knowing a fair bit about actually developing games, its quality was perhaps even more evident. 1995 also gave the super famicom Tenchi Souzou, a real forgotten work of art. Fortunately that one did make it to europe!
> 
> In conclusion, the snes was the high water mark of consoles. It was just powerful enough to give games depth and imapct, but was limited enough that real care had to be used to make games look and feel presentable. It took gaming as a diversion and single hanedly dragged it up to an artform.


Chrono Trigger or Terranigma (Tenchi Sozo) being the best games for the system, or best RPGs on the system even, is debatable. A lot of people would give that award to FF6 (aka FF3 back in the day) which is probably the best FF game ever made.

Certainly, Chrono and Terranigma are both fantastic games, but there are many, many excellent RPGs on the system that were Japan only back then, but are playable in English now through fan patches (and have been playable for some time). Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Secret of Mana 2) being one great example. Tales of Phantasia and Star Ocean were both superb as well.

For most people, and especially non-RPG gamers, the SNES is probably known for either excellent platformers (DKC games, Yoshi's Island, Mario World) or high quality Capcom arcade ports that the Genesis didn't get (Any Street Fighter II, Knights of the Round, King of Dragons, UN Squadron, etc.) Konami games such as TMNT 4 and Contra 3 also were extremely popular, especially here in the States, and are extremely high quality (and probably would have been impossible on the Genesis or Turbo).

The system is not too great for shmups, being easily outclassed by the Genesis/Mega Drive, and not even a contender compared to the Turbografx/PC Engine, containing mostly nothing BUT shmups. There are still a few good, exclusive ones like Axelay, R-Type 3, Space Megaforce, etc.

Anyway, it is obvious the system was an RPG system, and this is even more obvious when looking at the Super Famicom and the popularity of console RPGs in Japan. But that's not all there is on the system. Even non gamers or light gamers (like my younger sister) loved the system for it's exclusive platformers and games like Super Mario Kart, the SNES is her favorite console and since I have nearly everything else made since, she's been exposed to many different consoles and games but still picks the SNES as her favorite. That really says something.


----------



## neurotix

Oh and sorry for double posting, but you might like this a lot:







My Terranigma/Tenchi Sozo repro cart (remember, this game was never released in the US). Planning on playing through it again soon. From www.ocdreproductions.com


----------



## alltoasters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *neurotix*
> 
> Chrono Trigger or Terranigma (Tenchi Sozo) being the best games for the system, or best RPGs on the system even, is debatable. A lot of people would give that award to FF6 (aka FF3 back in the day) which is probably the best FF game ever made.
> 
> Certainly, Chrono and Terranigma are both fantastic games, but there are many, many excellent RPGs on the system that were Japan only back then, but are playable in English now through fan patches (and have been playable for some time). Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Secret of Mana 2) being one great example. Tales of Phantasia and Star Ocean were both superb as well.
> 
> For most people, and especially non-RPG gamers, the SNES is probably known for either excellent platformers (DKC games, Yoshi's Island, Mario World) or high quality Capcom arcade ports that the Genesis didn't get (Any Street Fighter II, Knights of the Round, King of Dragons, UN Squadron, etc.) Konami games such as TMNT 4 and Contra 3 also were extremely popular, especially here in the States, and are extremely high quality (and probably would have been impossible on the Genesis or Turbo).
> 
> The system is not too great for shmups, being easily outclassed by the Genesis/Mega Drive, and not even a contender compared to the Turbografx/PC Engine, containing mostly nothing BUT shmups. There are still a few good, exclusive ones like Axelay, R-Type 3, Space Megaforce, etc.
> 
> Anyway, it is obvious the system was an RPG system, and this is even more obvious when looking at the Super Famicom and the popularity of console RPGs in Japan. But that's not all there is on the system. Even non gamers or light gamers (like my younger sister) loved the system for it's exclusive platformers and games like Super Mario Kart, the SNES is her favorite console and since I have nearly everything else made since, she's been exposed to many different consoles and games but still picks the SNES as her favorite. That really says something.


I'd say it is highly debatable whether FF6 is the best FF game in the series or the best game on the snes. Granted it is enjoyable and I highly recommend it, but it is hardly a flawless masterpiece. The writing isn't quite right, major plot elements come practically out of nowhere and are highly contrived (what other role do those goddesses really play other than to allow the statues to exist?), some characters don't get fleshed out enough to really understand and sympathise with them, while others are totally superfluous and add nothing to the story whatsoever.

I played 6 before 7, and regard 7 as being equal or a major improvement in every regard. Many of 6's flaws are more apparent when taken in conjunction with the way 7 handles it. It does a better job of telling its story by fleshing out the world and the connections of the characters to places in it, giving real weight to the events in the story and encouraging exploration. It introduces important elements of the story organically and slowly, It pays a lot more attention to detail in character development, even the optional ones flesh out the world and story, and it has improved gameplay, with more customisation and less grind. No areas are redundant, they all have their own unique style and role, and lets face it, Vector is no Midgar. Chrono Trigger can be seen as an even more extreme example of FF7's tight focus on character and world building, never straying from doing anything but.

Like Chrono Trigger, I went into Terranigma blind with no expectations. It's got its flaws too, The common complaint about dragging on too long in the middle is true (I hate Sylvain Castle!), but each chapter feels so different, It is empowering changing the world, and it does it in such a unique way. It's also quite sad, both in terms of its story, and the fact it was the last game many of the developers made because it didn't sell too well and has been mostly forgotten. It feels like the developers could have gone on to even greater things, but sadly it wasn't to be. It's a real shame it hasn't seen a rerelease and has been out of print for so long.

Shmups are kind of a dead genre to me. I get the appeal but I suck at them too much to really enjoy them. The reason the SNES doesnt have so many is because it doesn't have a lot of processing power, which is what you want when you're updating hundreds of objects on screen at once. In fact the SNES was slow even by late 80s standards, being just a notch above the NES in terms of raw CPU grunt. The SNES excelled at displaying detailed, colourful sprites and playing music, which aren't really important in a shmup, with lots of fast moving small sprites of limited colour, and loads of action to process.


----------



## neurotix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alltoasters*
> 
> I'd say it is highly debatable whether FF6 is the best FF game in the series or the best game on the snes. Granted it is enjoyable and I highly recommend it, but it is hardly a flawless masterpiece. The writing isn't quite right, major plot elements come practically out of nowhere and are highly contrived (what other role do those goddesses really play other than to allow the statues to exist?), some characters don't get fleshed out enough to really understand and sympathise with them, while others are totally superfluous and add nothing to the story whatsoever.
> 
> I played 6 before 7, and regard 7 as being equal or a major improvement in every regard. Many of 6's flaws are more apparent when taken in conjunction with the way 7 handles it. It does a better job of telling its story by fleshing out the world and the connections of the characters to places in it, giving real weight to the events in the story and encouraging exploration. It introduces important elements of the story organically and slowly, It pays a lot more attention to detail in character development, even the optional ones flesh out the world and story, and it has improved gameplay, with more customisation and less grind. No areas are redundant, they all have their own unique style and role, and lets face it, Vector is no Midgar. Chrono Trigger can be seen as an even more extreme example of FF7's tight focus on character and world building, never straying from doing anything but.


I'm in agreement that it's probably not the best game on the SNES, and I agree that it's debatable if it's the best game in the FF series. Coming from someone who played it before FF7, I find this surprising. Among most people who started playing FF pre-FF7, most people consider FF6 the superior game for many reasons. I won't deny FF7 is a fantastic game though and certainly don't think it's overrated like some people think. I recently replayed it on my PSP last year and it is still excellent, in every regard. I don't have much hope for them not screwing up the remake, and in my mind, just the fact it doesn't have turn based battles will ruin it for me.

6 may have basically twice as many characters, and sure, many of them aren't developed well (or even at all- Gogo and Umaro). However, it does have a strong central cast of about 7 characters, that are all introduced in the first world, get major screentime individually in the first world (when the party splits), and have their stories resolved fully in the second world. This includes Terra, Celes, Locke, Cyan, Sabin, Edgar, Gau, Shadow, and Setzer. Compare this with FF7, where after the first disc it is basically AERIS AERIS AERIS, and the only characters whose stories really matter anymore are Cloud and Tifa. As far as FF7 never straying from world building and character development? What about all the sidequests and irrelevant stuff to the main story? (Honeybee Inn, Gold Saucer, Chocobo Racing, Vincent's sidequest, Wutai, probably more...)

A lot of people make the argument that Kefka is a superior villain to Sephiroth because 1) Kefka is not a Bishōnen and 2) he's patently insane. He's also not inside a crater basically physically dead for the entire game, and he actually SUCCEEDS in destroying the entire world and taking it over (apologies to those that haven't played either game). He rules the whole world from his tower, devastating anyone that resists with a beam of light. A lot of people really like this and see your struggle as being much more hopeless and severe. When you also consider the consequences of destroying him, as well as the statues, and how that affects the main character (Terra), it makes the struggle and the ending even more melancholy.

Both games have fantastic music, but you can argue that FF6 was the apex of SNES sound design and what the SPC700 could do, whereas FF7's soundtrack was later surpassed by games such as FF8, FF9, Xenogears, Chrono Cross, and maybe others. Uematsu was quoted once as saying his favorite FF soundtrack was FF9's. (This was a long time ago though, who knows what he thinks now.)

Look, anyway I get sort of an argumentative, antagonistic vibe from your post, which was not the original intention of mine. (Apologies if you didn't mean it this way; I certainly didn't mean for my post to be taken that way either.) I'm sure we can both agree that they are both excellent games and probably the apex of Final Fantasy. I'd rather not argue about it or debate it, but rather appreciate the games as being equally great, and realize we will probably never see games like them again, since most of the staff who worked on them are long gone from Square-Enix. It wasn't my intention to provoke or say you're wrong or anything. I don't really see the point in debating it more.









I've played and finished all the original FF games (1-9) multiple times each, and severely dislike every FF game since (including X). For the record, my personal favorite and my favorite game of all time is FF4 (aka FF2); preferably the original Japanese hardtype with the J2E anniversary edition translation patch.


----------



## alltoasters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *neurotix*
> 
> I'm in agreement that it's probably not the best game on the SNES, and I agree that it's debatable if it's the best game in the FF series. Coming from someone who played it before FF7, I find this surprising. Among most people who started playing FF pre-FF7, most people consider FF6 the superior game for many reasons. I won't deny FF7 is a fantastic game though and certainly don't think it's overrated like some people think. I recently replayed it on my PSP last year and it is still excellent, in every regard. I don't have much hope for them not screwing up the remake, and in my mind, just the fact it doesn't have turn based battles will ruin it for me.
> 
> 6 may have basically twice as many characters, and sure, many of them aren't developed well (or even at all- Gogo and Umaro). However, it does have a strong central cast of about 7 characters, that are all introduced in the first world, get major screentime individually in the first world (when the party splits), and have their stories resolved fully in the second world. This includes Terra, Celes, Locke, Cyan, Sabin, Edgar, Gau, Shadow, and Setzer. Compare this with FF7, where after the first disc it is basically AERIS AERIS AERIS, and the only characters whose stories really matter anymore are Cloud and Tifa. As far as FF7 never straying from world building and character development? What about all the sidequests and irrelevant stuff to the main story? (Honeybee Inn, Gold Saucer, Chocobo Racing, Vincent's sidequest, Wutai, probably more...)
> 
> A lot of people make the argument that Kefka is a superior villain to Sephiroth because 1) Kefka is not a Bishōnen and 2) he's patently insane. He's also not inside a crater basically physically dead for the entire game, and he actually SUCCEEDS in destroying the entire world and taking it over (apologies to those that haven't played either game). He rules the whole world from his tower, devastating anyone that resists with a beam of light. A lot of people really like this and see your struggle as being much more hopeless and severe. When you also consider the consequences of destroying him, as well as the statues, and how that affects the main character (Terra), it makes the struggle and the ending even more melancholy.
> 
> Both games have fantastic music, but you can argue that FF6 was the apex of SNES sound design and what the SPC700 could do, whereas FF7's soundtrack was later surpassed by games such as FF8, FF9, Xenogears, Chrono Cross, and maybe others. Uematsu was quoted once as saying his favorite FF soundtrack was FF9's. (This was a long time ago though, who knows what he thinks now.)
> 
> Look, anyway I get sort of an argumentative, antagonistic vibe from your post, which was not the original intention of mine. (Apologies if you didn't mean it this way; I certainly didn't mean for my post to be taken that way either.) I'm sure we can both agree that they are both excellent games and probably the apex of Final Fantasy. I'd rather not argue about it or debate it, but rather appreciate the games as being equally great, and realize we will probably never see games like them again, since most of the staff who worked on them are long gone from Square-Enix. It wasn't my intention to provoke or say you're wrong or anything. I don't really see the point in debating it more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've played and finished all the original FF games (1-9) multiple times each, and severely dislike every FF game since (including X). For the record, my personal favorite and my favorite game of all time is FF4 (aka FF2); preferably the original Japanese hardtype with the J2E anniversary edition translation patch.


Oh I wasn't intending to be argumentative, Sorry if it came across that way. I'm just trying to rationalise why I think FF6 is perhaps not the best, even if it is still very good. FF7 makes a good comparison because it is similar, and yet almost opposite, but I can see why some people might prefer its looseness (for lack of a better word). To me though, 7 feels like 6 with more depth, but perhaps this is more due to the fact it was on Playstation and they could fit a lot more text in, both on the disc and on screen, so they could add in a lot more things which otherwise would have been cut.

Kefka is interesting because a lot of his insanity isn't actually there in the original Japanese, and was added by the translators. I'm grateful, it gives him something to stand out with. A mentally unstable narcissist ruling the world from a tower seems all the more plausible in light of recent events! It is a terrifying thought, but I wouldn't say that the hopelessness is unique to Kefka though. Just think of the scene where the rocket fails to destroy Meteor, and everyone from then on is just waiting to die. He's fun to watch, so I think he really needed more lines and even more time interacting with the main characters to make the most out of that.

Sephiroth is a more personal villain, with his connections to the characters being much more fleshed out, because a few of them knew him for some time, and he gets a lot more lines than Kefka. We also get to see a lot more of his past and his ideals. I like that because it ties the story together instead of it feeling more like characters existing in isolation.

Music is the area where I find it hardest to compare FF6 or FF7, They are fairly similar, which is understandable given they were composed by the same man within the space of a couple of years. FF 6&7 are technically outclassed by later games yes, but I find their low quality instruments to be all the more endearing, and add a kind of charm and uniqueness that the later ones lack, and helps make it all the more haunting where it needs to be. In terms of getting the most from the SPC, I think FF6, CT and Terranigma are all equal. It's impossible even consider picking a favorite when they're all perfect.

I'm I am actually replaying FF6 at the moment, but had to put it on hold due to life stuff. I'm also slowly doing a playthrough of FF7 with a friend, guiding her through it, and when we have finished that one she is going to take me through FFX, which I haven't played before, but she has. I will get around to 4 one day, It sounds like one I would like. I was struggling to pick a good translation, so I'll look into the one you mentioned. Just so long as it isn't that machine translated one! NEUTRALIZE GERMANY!


----------



## neurotix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alltoasters*
> 
> Oh I wasn't intending to be argumentative, Sorry if it came across that way. I'm just trying to rationalise why I think FF6 is perhaps not the best, even if it is still very good. FF7 makes a good comparison because it is similar, and yet almost opposite, but I can see why some people might prefer its looseness (for lack of a better word). To me though, 7 feels like 6 with more depth, but perhaps this is more due to the fact it was on Playstation and they could fit a lot more text in, both on the disc and on screen, so they could add in a lot more things which otherwise would have been cut.
> 
> Kefka is interesting because a lot of his insanity isn't actually there in the original Japanese, and was added by the translators. I'm grateful, it gives him something to stand out with. A mentally unstable narcissist ruling the world from a tower seems all the more plausible in light of recent events! It is a terrifying thought, but I wouldn't say that the hopelessness is unique to Kefka though. Just think of the scene where the rocket fails to destroy Meteor, and everyone from then on is just waiting to die. He's fun to watch, so I think he really needed more lines and even more time interacting with the main characters to make the most out of that.
> 
> Sephiroth is a more personal villain, with his connections to the characters being much more fleshed out, because a few of them knew him for some time, and he gets a lot more lines than Kefka. We also get to see a lot more of his past and his ideals. I like that because it ties the story together instead of it feeling more like characters existing in isolation.
> 
> Music is the area where I find it hardest to compare FF6 or FF7, They are fairly similar, which is understandable given they were composed by the same man within the space of a couple of years. FF 6&7 are technically outclassed by later games yes, but I find their low quality instruments to be all the more endearing, and add a kind of charm and uniqueness that the later ones lack, and helps make it all the more haunting where it needs to be. In terms of getting the most from the SPC, I think FF6, CT and Terranigma are all equal. It's impossible even consider picking a favorite when they're all perfect.
> 
> I'm I am actually replaying FF6 at the moment, but had to put it on hold due to life stuff. I'm also slowly doing a playthrough of FF7 with a friend, guiding her through it, and when we have finished that one she is going to take me through FFX, which I haven't played before, but she has. I will get around to 4 one day, It sounds like one I would like. I was struggling to pick a good translation, so I'll look into the one you mentioned. Just so long as it isn't that machine translated one! NEUTRALIZE GERMANY!


Ah, gotcha. I just couldn't tell if you were being argumentative or not.

7 for sure has a more lengthy script, more complex gameplay, more sidequests, more of everything, but of course this makes sense given the ROM size of FF6 (roughly 3Mb) vs FF7 (around 2.0Gb!). It's amazing that they were actually able to fit so much gameplay and text into a SNES cartridge. Of course, FF6 had a smaller team and development cycle as well.

Another aspect of FF6 a lot of people love is the combat system, especially the esper magic learning system, and the idea that each character has one unique ability.. I think the biggest complaint levied against FF7 is that all the characters are blank slates, with no unique abilities aside from Limit Breaks. I honestly never really found fault with this, as the materia system is well done, but it does basically make Cloud the only viable character for the Battle Arena (especially the boss one with Proud Clod at the end- if your Materia gets broken, better have Omnislash...)

I guess a big complaint with both is the difficulty level, both being extremely easy, especially compared to some other RPGs. I don't see a need to grind in either, as long as you aren't running from battles, and grinding is trivial in both anyway if you exploit them. In FF6 it is simply Exp. Egg and Dinosaur Forest, and in FF7 you can simply duplicate Elixirs and feed them to Magic Pots in the North Crater. I tend to power game when it comes to RPGs and especially Final Fantasy, so these games are cakewalks for me. I think the point of the classic FFs is definitely story though, if I wanted a difficult classic RPG I'd look at Romancing SaGa, SMT, some of the Dragon Quest games, and so forth.

It's been a while since I played FF6 Advance, or the FF6 Retranslation project, but I seem to remember in both that Kefka (Cefca) was still pretty much insane, at least, his actions don't change regardless of translation or the original Japanese. (Stuff like poisoning Doma castle is pretty crazy no matter how you frame him otherwise)

Sephiroth IS a personal villain but that kind of comes apart once you piece together Cloud's past... you know why. I won't spoil it for anyone that never played the game. He definitely is for Tifa though.

Music and what you said about it, I'll just say I agree totally. Hell, I even showed my 62 y.o. mom the FF7 Remake Trailer and she's like "wow it looks amazing but the music doesn't sound right, the original Playstation music sounds cooler".. big complaint I have against all days nowadays... back then games sounded really unique per system and per composer, now mostly everything is this fake "epic" orchestral stuff, none of it has any character. Unless it's an Indie "retro style game" with "8-bit music". (Though some indie games are good, no point in trying to recreate a bygone era. It's always going to be just a facsimile.)

It's cool you're helping your friend through it. Though, I wouldn't look forward to playing X myself, but maybe you'll like it.

Yes, I would HIGHLY recommend FF4 if you've never played it, especially if you like story-heavy games or play FF for the story. Easily one of the better FF stories. I think it's better than FF6, myself. The combat is kinda meh, it has more in common with the original NES/Famicom trilogy than with later games, and there's no job system like FF5, but locked character classes. You learn magic by leveling up, and grinding is definitely required, much more so than later entries. But the story, atmosphere and music are excellent. My favorite JRPG ever and I've played hundreds, right up through the modern ones. If you can stick with it despite it's age, poor graphics, etc. you'll see what I mean. And if you don't like the SNES version, it's available for NDS and PC (3D remake- this one is HARD though, they really turned up the difficulty, be warned), as well as PSP (full 2D remake "FF4 Complete Collection", that's right, this game was remade TWICE).

Cheers man.


----------



## cutty1998

Boogerman ,complete soundtrack ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCKAW3vpY1M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQSLiBpOLI8


----------



## cutty1998

Who out there is old enough to remember X-band? The insanely slow, SNES modem plug in service that allowed online multiplayer action (well 1 on 1 ) for games like MK2 , Killer instinct ,and maybe a few other games? That cheesy techno soundtrack while you were waiting to connect was nuts! I think it was like a 10 KBPS baud modem! Super super slow! ,but there were dudes that could pull off insane 30 hit ultra air combos on Killer Instinct that would baffle the mind ! Man those were fun times. Which led to X=box live times with Rainbow 6 three ,or was it Rainbow six 3 ? Anyway , the old times of console online play were amazing. Also , I will never forget how incredible the sound quality was on the SNES . It really was like 4X better than the Genesis. Still love the genny, but the SNES sound was so advanced.


----------



## RockmanDash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *neurotix*
> 
> Oh and sorry for double posting, but you might like this a lot:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My Terranigma/Tenchi Sozo repro cart (remember, this game was never released in the US). Planning on playing through it again soon. From www.ocdreproductions.com


Probably one of the best RPG beside than Chrono Trigger on Snes. Have finished it two times to fully understand the story. The story is weird since i cannot fully get the ending of the game.


----------



## neurotix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RockmanDash*
> 
> Probably one of the best RPG beside than Chrono Trigger on Snes. Have finished it two times to fully understand the story. The story is weird since i cannot fully get the ending of the game.


May be due to the bad translation.


----------



## Lotus222

I agree, the SNES was the best console. The games were more polished than any other system I think that still holds true.

SNES Best Top 10:
1) Secret of Mana
2) FF6
3) Super Mario World
4) Legend of Zelda - A Link to the Past
5) Donkey Kong Country
6) Chrono Trigger
7) Super Bomber Man
8) Mega Man X
9) Demon's Crest
10) Uniracers


----------



## neurotix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lotus222*
> 
> I agree, the SNES was the best console. The games were more polished than any other system I think that still holds true.
> 
> SNES Best Top 10:
> 1) Secret of Mana
> 2) FF6
> 3) Super Mario World
> 4) Legend of Zelda - A Link to the Past
> 5) Donkey Kong Country
> 6) Chrono Trigger
> 7) Super Bomber Man
> 8) Mega Man X
> 9) Demon's Crest
> 10) Uniracers


Someone really likes Secret of Mana. I agree, it's really great, but I'd put Chrono Trigger before it. All great games you listed. But I'd pick Super Bomberman 2 over the first one if you're looking for multiplayer. There were actually 5 (yes) Super Bomberman games in Japan, and some of the Japan only ones (esp. Super Bomberman 4) were really good and had great multiplayer campaigns.



Can kill dinosaurs and other enemies and then ride them around in SB4.

And yes, I remember the Xband modem but I never used it myself, just remember the ads and articles on it. A friend of mine had Sega Channel which was another, different service for the Genesis (I think it worked though cable?) Anyway he's told me extensively how awesome it was.


----------



## Lotus222

Oh, I definitely meant Super Bomber Man 2 in that list (just forgot). That 4 person multiplayer was just the best.

I totally get why so many people love Chrono Trigger; but it didn't draw me in as much as FF6 or Secret of Mana. I just enjoyed the real-time fighting and multiplayer of Secret of Mana. It was always fun to designate an actual person as the main healer/debuff and another for buffing. Not to mention it has my favorite music of all the other RPG's of the SNES era.


----------



## neurotix

Yeah, Secret of Mana is excellent. You should look into and play Seiken Densetsu 3, the Japan-only sequel. It's fully translated, can play it in an emulator. It's even better.


----------



## Lotus222

I don't know if Seiken Densetu is better... but I agree that it is a great game.

Speaking of emulator games for the SNES, you should check out Tactics Ogre.
It is the game that set the stage for Final Fantasy Tactics, and it is pretty excellent. It was fully translated to English back in 2010 (I think because of the PSP version of the game). The battle system controls also translate to phones/tablets very well.


----------



## neurotix

Tactics Ogre was released in English in 1998 for the Playstation. The game was directed by Yasumi Matsuno and the music was done by Basiscape (Hitoshi Sakamoto, Masaharu Iwata). The Playstation port was an enhanced port of the Japanese-only Super Famicom game, which came out in 1995.

Matsuno went on to make FF Tactics (when Quest was bought by Square). Matsuno later went on to work heavily on Vagrant Story and Final Fantasy XII (12). He suffered a breakdown while working on FFXII and left the company.

In 2010, Gideon Zhi of Aeon Genesis translations simply inserted the script from the PSX release of Tactics Ogre into the Super Famicom ROM of Tactics Ogre. Of course, he had to probably rewrite text routines in the ROM to match and so forth, but it was essentially a copy and paste translation. Beyond that, it is buggy, and crashes often in many emulators. This is irrelevant anyway; the game has been playable in English since 1998, when Atlus translated and released the game here for Playstation.

The PSP version of the game is totally different and not the basis for the SFC translation. It is a remake of the game, but I use the term remake loosely because it is totally different and plays nothing like the original.

Either way, it's a great game and everyone should play the PSX version. In my opinion, it is vastly superior to FF Tactics in music, gameplay, and story. At least in Tactics Ogre you can control more than 5 party members at once. The branching paths give it some replay value, as does the 100 floor random dungeon after you beat the main campaign. Afaik FF Tactics is totally linear and doesn't have branching paths.

Also check out Tactics Ogre: The Knight of Lodis, the GBA-only sequel, also in English and released here. It's not quite as good, but it's more of the same, and the core gameplay is still very solid.


----------



## madpossum

I didn't know the PSP version of Tactics Ogre was vastly different from the other versions. I have that version and love it. How different is it? I may just try to track down a PS1 version of the game if it is worth it.

I don't understand the near universal love for Uniracers that I see everywhere. I'd rather play something like Rock n' Roll Racing myself.

As for SNES RPGs, all the big ones deserve all the praise they get, but people always seem to undervalue the two Lufia games.


----------



## neurotix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madpossum*
> 
> I didn't know the PSP version of Tactics Ogre was vastly different from the other versions. I have that version and love it. How different is it? I may just try to track down a PS1 version of the game if it is worth it.
> 
> I don't understand the near universal love for Uniracers that I see everywhere. I'd rather play something like Rock n' Roll Racing myself.
> 
> As for SNES RPGs, all the big ones deserve all the praise they get, but people always seem to undervalue the two Lufia games.


The PSP version of Tactics Ogre is a remake. However it is also a rebalancing. Assuming it's the one that looks like this:



And not a PSN version of the PSone game or something.

Anyway, as for the changes.

Enemies scale to your level, meaning you can't outlevel them in the PSP remake. New jobs start at level 1 and the level of a unit is tied to the job, in the original each character had their own level and they kept it when you changed jobs, even to one you just unlocked. Meaning when you get a new job you don't have to level it up, and since the monsters don't scale to the highest level unit in your party, you aren't trying to level up level 1's vs. lvl 25s or something. The bonus dungeon after the main game (I think it opens once you have access to the final dungeon, at least in the PSX version) still has enemies scaling to the level of your strongest unit, though. There is NO license/skill system for magic or weapons, meaning pretty much any character can equip anything (if I recall you can make a Ninja wear a Rod or a Bow if you want but they'll be pretty useless with it). This saves you mucho time in menus as you don't need to equip skills with skill points for every single unit you have, and then have to do it again when you change jobs. There is no crafting system. Instead, most of the good stuff (like elemental swords) are found in battles in bags, usually from boss units. Again, this saves more tedious time in menus. Archers, Knights and certain other units are much more useful for most of the game in the original, since it's fairly easy to overlevel your characters in training battles (there's a strategy for this, check "Tactics Ogre PSX power leveling" or something, I won't explain it here). In the remake, since the enemies always match the level of your strongest unit, Archers are bad because they miss all the time, and when they do hit they do next to no damage, even if they have a height advantage. In the original this isn't the case because you can overlevel your Archer for the area. Likewise, Knights are basically worthless because they are extremely slow and have poor movement, in the original this is mitigated somewhat if you powerlevel.

I hope that explains the main points, I personally hated the remake and would much rather play the PSX game. The music does sound pretty great though, in the PSP remake.

I rented Uniracers a few times and learned my lesson after breaking a controller or two as a kid. That game starts off fun and soon becomes infuriatingly cheap and unfair.

I just finished a playthrough on real hardware of the first Lufia, one of my favorite games ever. I prefer it to the sequel, yes I'm a weirdo and one of the few fans who enjoys the original much more. I don't think I've ever cleared Lufia 2 from start to finish- the puzzles suck and are too hard, I couldn't figure one out as a kid and would always get stuck at the same place (it's the one with the red and blue blocks you have to push and pull). This was before the internet, didn't have a walkthrough. In any case, Lufia 1 has a certain charm in the graphics and music that the sequel doesn't, it just didn't do it for me.

Ever tried Guard Daos at level 40? (I used Sweet Water and Smoke Balls too much throughout the game and was underleveled for him). Screw Figual.


----------



## Lotus222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madpossum*
> 
> I don't understand the near universal love for Uniracers that I see everywhere. I'd rather play something like Rock n' Roll Racing myself.


Rock n Roll racing was pretty epic as far as racing goes - upgrades are fun. The reason Uniracers was more addicting was the high-score competing with stunts. It was a similar formula to Tony Hawk Pro Skater and would really suck you in.


----------



## Wolfsbora

Click here to check out the new article "Redeeming the Sega CD" by guest columnist @neurotix!


----------



## neurotix

Great, you posted it!

Did anyone here have the Sega CD? Has anyone played any of the games I've talked about? Does anyone still have a Sega CD now? What are your Sega CD stories from your youth? Let me know and let's discuss it!


----------



## madpossum

I loved my Sega CD (but then I also loved my 32x so maybe take that with a grain of salt, LOL). Snatcher alone made the system worth it. It and Rising Dragon ( a similar style game) were my most played games on it. There was a lot on it besides FMV games, plus a lot of the time the Sega CD versions of games were the best versions, like Final Fight already mentioned, Terminator, Wolfchild (killer music and sound effects compared to Genesis version), Eternal Champions (big upgrade from Genesis version), Mickey Mania (underrated platformer), etc. It also had the excellent Lunar Games (the entire Genesis and Sega CD RPG lineup is underrated, but that's a different topic).

The Samurai Showdown on Sega CD was missing the character Earthquake and was missing the camera zooming effect (both things also missing from the Genesis version), but had the rest of the moves and intros and voices the Genesis versions was lacking. Both were still way better than the SNES version, which had Earthquake but was missing a bunch of other stuff, played worse, and had the camera so far zoomed out that the character sprites were super tiny. I hated the SNES version and got rid of it not long after buying it. Though, truthfully, I also skipped the Sega CD version and went for the near perfect 3DO port (another unfairly disparaged console that I had a lot of fun with at the time).


----------



## neurotix

Gotta agree with everything you said. I've played Snatcher, but I haven't played Rising Dragon. I think I've seen it on Game Sack though and they really liked it. I'm going to have to check it out.

I have the 32X too but it gets used once in a blue moon. I only have a few games but they're all pretty much one trick ponies and get boring really fast, even if they're mostly solid. I think I have Virtua Fighter, Virtua Racing, Space Harrier, Star Wars Arcade and Doom (don't even bother with Doom, it's awful on 32x, just get DOSbox). I'd like to get Knuckles Chaotix but last time I checked it was way more than I'd like to pay for what is essentially a Sonic game. On the contrary, my Sega CD actually gets used more than once a year. (It's hard to pick a favorite game, but the one I play and enjoy more than any other is probably Keio Flying Squadron)

My model 2 Sega CD works no problem, but my model 1 CD gives me headaches. I'm not sure what's wrong with it. Well, I have some idea but no clue how to fix it. When I got it, I knew right away it would need a new drive belt. I had to order the exact one from a specialty audio supply website, it was like $10 for a tiny rubber band. =/ Digital Press repair forums have a lot of information. The drive belt replacement mostly fixed it for a while, then it was acting up again. It makes loud grinding sounds sometimes when raising the drive, I've heard this is caused by either misaligned gears or the plastic teeth on some of the gears being broken off or dull. I really have no idea how to repair this. Also, it will automatically open then close the drive tray on the bios screen if no disc is present, I don't think this is normal, the drive is only supposed to open when you press reset, and I think the tray is supposed to stay open until you press start. The system also takes too long to load sometimes, or outright fails to load (it took 20 minutes+ one time to load the final boss stage of Lords of Thunder...) Finally, occasionally it has a strange issue where when trying to load something, or start a game, both the power and reset lights blink in tandem (both lighting up/going off at the same time) while ejecting the tray over and over. It seems when this happens, all you can do is power the system off. I'd really like to get this thing fixed but don't have any clue where to start. I think maybe it needs gear replacement, full laser replacement and maybe capacitor replacement but I'm not sure if it needs all three.

EDIT: edited for clarity, spelling mistakes


----------



## neurotix

Guys, anyone have anything else to add on the Sega CD? More game recommendations? Questions about the system? I'm all ears.

Let's not let this thread die, unfortunately Wolfsbora is struggling with a lot of real life problems (like finding a job and not losing his house- sorry man). So you have *me* to deal with until he can update this again. You should be happy


----------



## frostbite

I loved my megacd2, was the ultimate cool but just like the saturn and the psx no body knew how to look after the discs (I suppose the thought they were robust like carts and chuck them around)

Theres nothing but regret when you go into a thrift store and see retro disc meda only to find the disc has been chewed by a dog


----------



## neurotix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frostbite*
> 
> I loved my megacd2, was the ultimate cool but just like the saturn and the psx no body knew how to look after the discs (I suppose the thought they were robust like carts and chuck them around)
> 
> Theres nothing but regret when you go into a thrift store and see retro disc meda only to find the disc has been chewed by a dog


There's also the issue of the Sega CD/Mega CD only being around for like 2 years tops, not selling very many units because of the price, and consequently, low print runs of some of the best games. Since the system was so expensive and not many people had it, not very many of the games were made. So when you do find anything decent for Sega CD, it is usually very expensive, especially if it's complete. The Sega Saturn has a similar problem. Thankfully, the Sega CD has no copy protection.


----------



## alltoasters

I've not had any personal experience with the mega cd. If it did poorly in the US, it did REALLY poorly in the UK. I think this was in part because of the Amiga CD32 launching at the same time in Amiga home turf. I don't think I've ever even seen one.

You're probably right in suggesting it may have some of the best arcade ports around, some of the other early 90s CD consoles had some excellent ones. I have played some of the Sega CD version of Snatcher in an emulator. I never got around to most of it but it looked pretty great from what I played. I'm told an actual copy is rare and expensive as hell.


----------



## neurotix

I don't think I've ever seen any Amiga CD32's. XD

I see plenty of Sega CDs here, however they can be pricey, you have to go to the right places to get one for a decent price. I never saw or played one back in the day though.

Snatcher is quite expensive, especially complete. Disc only copies are $275 on Ebay. A boxed Mega CD PAL version is £280. I've seen the complete US version going for $600. The only retro Sega game I think is more expensive is probably Panzer Dragoon Saga on Saturn.

Funnily enough, a complete PC Engine CD (Turbografx-CD) version of Snatcher from Japan is about $30. So if you have that system and read Japanese... I think the Sega CD version had some changed scenes and added some content though.


----------



## madpossum

I know the Sega CD version was censored slightly. I think there was some slight nudity when you surprised your former partner's daughter in the shower in the original (and they also changed her age from 14 or 15 to 18 so she was no longer jail bait in the US). They also changed the part where the dead dog is thrown through the window to make it much less gruesome. I'm sure there were other parts but those are the ones I remember reading about back in the day. I believe the PC-Engine version is the only uncensored version available (I don't know about the Japanese computer versions).

I had no idea that Snatcher was bringing that much now. I wish I still had my copy! Heck, if I had kept every system and game I've had over the years I could probably sell it all and retire, LOL.

I still believe that the Sega CD is right behind the 3DO as far as most underrated consoles. I think the problem is (besides being an expensive add-on) that the video game companies and media back then were trumpeting FMV as the "next big thing" in video games. So when people think about those early CD systems they think that they were mostly just bad FMV games. They don't think about Sonic CD, Heart of the Alien (which I don't think ever released for any other console), Flink, Mickey Mania, Lunar, Snatcher, Rise of the Dragon, Silpheed (another favorite), Spider-Man vs the Kingpin, Vay, etc.

No, they think of Night Trap and Sewer Shark, LOL.


----------



## alltoasters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *neurotix*
> 
> I don't think I've ever seen any Amiga CD32's. XD
> 
> I see plenty of Sega CDs here, however they can be pricey, you have to go to the right places to get one for a decent price. I never saw or played one back in the day though.
> 
> Snatcher is quite expensive, especially complete. Disc only copies are $275 on Ebay. A boxed Mega CD PAL version is £280. I've seen the complete US version going for $600. The only retro Sega game I think is more expensive is probably Panzer Dragoon Saga on Saturn.
> 
> Funnily enough, a complete PC Engine CD (Turbografx-CD) version of Snatcher from Japan is about $30. So if you have that system and read Japanese... I think the Sega CD version had some changed scenes and added some content though.


Japan has such a stigma against anything used. Go onto yahoo.jp auctions and see how cheap the cars are! A friend of mine has taught himself Japanese and has got to a level he can read just about any text. I suggested he get a Super famicom. Boxed copy of chrono trigger for £10? Yes please. I can read a little bit but nowhere near enough.

Only problem is postage. Stuff takes forever and a day to get here from japan. Usually it gets stuck in UK customs for months. He's got the sfc, and rockman x because they were local, but we're still waiting on CT.


----------



## neurotix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madpossum*
> 
> I know the Sega CD version was censored slightly. I think there was some slight nudity when you surprised your former partner's daughter in the shower in the original (and they also changed her age from 14 or 15 to 18 so she was no longer jail bait in the US). They also changed the part where the dead dog is thrown through the window to make it much less gruesome. I'm sure there were other parts but those are the ones I remember reading about back in the day. I believe the PC-Engine version is the only uncensored version available (I don't know about the Japanese computer versions).


I believe another changed scene is when you go to the "bar" (strip club?), in the Sega CD version all the patrons are characters from Konami games. Sparkster from Rocket Knight Adventures is there. The two dudes from Contra are there. You can see it in the comparison screenshots ("Outer Heaven") here (probably NSFW).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alltoasters*
> 
> Japan has such a stigma against anything used. Go onto yahoo.jp auctions and see how cheap the cars are! A friend of mine has taught himself Japanese and has got to a level he can read just about any text. I suggested he get a Super famicom. Boxed copy of chrono trigger for £10? Yes please. I can read a little bit but nowhere near enough.
> 
> Only problem is postage. Stuff takes forever and a day to get here from japan. Usually it gets stuck in UK customs for months. He's got the sfc, and rockman x because they were local, but we're still waiting on CT.


There's quite a few sellers of Japanese games on Ebay, the shipping will still take a month to come (at least here in the US). Usually they can be quite expensive but there's a few sellers that are reasonable, I have a few of them bookmarked, I'll dig them up for you later. I got my PC Engine Core Grafx + 10 games (some complete) this way, with a controller, for $110. Pretty good deal, especially considering the games for it are much cheaper than the US Turbografx counterparts.

Have you guys been using a proxy service? This is how you get your stuff faster. Basically, you give them (usually a Japanese family) the money, they buy your item and ship it to you, since a lot of sellers on yahoo Japan auctions won't even ship overseas. Even then, there's good and bad proxy services, if you're already using one maybe you need to change services.

This guy did a very good video explaining it all.


----------



## neurotix

As promised

EDIT: alltoasters check your pm's. I'm not too confident about posting Ebay links and then getting modded for it, which has happened to me in the past.


----------



## frostbite

On a side note, I got the amiga a500 working


----------



## madpossum

^ Sweet! Speaking of Amiga, anyone have an Amiga CD32? Always been curious about that system and, being in the US, have never seen one.


----------



## neurotix

We were just talking about this on the last page.

alltoasters mentioned it but he didn't say whether or not he had one or has one.

Being that it's pretty much a European/UK system, I don't know anything about it, never seen one or played it. I'm sure there's plenty of videos about it on Youtube though.


----------



## alltoasters

I've never had a CD32, but I think I've seen one somewhere. I saw a CDTV about a month ago as well.

I think my dad had an Amiga 3000 for a short time while I was very young. I barely remember it, and it might not have been one, but looking at pictures I think that was it. He doesn't remember what it was.

Commodore's incompetence with the Amiga is mind boggling. They made by far the best home computer of the 80s, then as soon as it started making a profit, some ass of an executive fired successful people in his own power grab, then cut all the money from R&D and the platform was no longer able to keep the enormous lead it once had. If they had instead stuck at it, kept it ahead and marketed it in the US as they did in Europe, who knows, it might still be around as a current platform, at least for professional use. Some are probably still in use for video editing.

I wasn't around at the time, but to my understanding it was much more of a success in Europe because PCs and Macs were stupidly expensive, not even close to as capable, and it was marketed as a games computer not a business one. I think the Amiga 500 was something like £100 more expensive than the Atari ST, but was generally seen as being worth it, especially when bundled with games. Commodore US were too focused on trying to sell it as a business computer, where the Amiga's real strength lay in its multimedia and creative capabilities. Being the people who built it, they should have, and probably did know this.

The Acorn Archimedes was even faster, but was too expensive for most home users and didn't have that good a library of games. I remember them much more clearly though because my first school had quite a few of them. I'm told they (and also the BBC micro) were still in use by that school when my younger brother started school in 2007!


----------



## neurotix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alltoasters*
> 
> I've never had a CD32, but I think I've seen one somewhere. I saw a CDTV about a month ago as well.
> 
> I think my dad had an Amiga 3000 for a short time while I was very young. I barely remember it, and it might not have been one, but looking at pictures I think that was it. He doesn't remember what it was.
> 
> Commodore's incompetence with the Amiga is mind boggling. They made by far the best home computer of the 80s, then as soon as it started making a profit, some ass of an executive fired successful people in his own power grab, then cut all the money from R&D and the platform was no longer able to keep the enormous lead it once had. If they had instead stuck at it, kept it ahead and marketed it in the US as they did in Europe, who knows, it might still be around as a current platform, at least for professional use. Some are probably still in use for video editing.
> 
> I wasn't around at the time, but to my understanding it was much more of a success in Europe because PCs and Macs were stupidly expensive, not even close to as capable, and it was marketed as a games computer not a business one. I think the Amiga 500 was something like £100 more expensive than the Atari ST, but was generally seen as being worth it, especially when bundled with games. Commodore US were too focused on trying to sell it as a business computer, where the Amiga's real strength lay in its multimedia and creative capabilities. Being the people who built it, they should have, and probably did know this.
> 
> The Acorn Archimedes was even faster, but was too expensive for most home users and didn't have that good a library of games. I remember them much more clearly though because my first school had quite a few of them. I'm told they (and also the BBC micro) were still in use by that school when my younger brother started school in 2007!


Never even seen or used an Amiga at all, that's how unpopular and rare they are here. Well, I may have seen one at a convention but not known what it was (I was mostly there for console games anyway).

When I was a kid here in the late 80s and early 90s, all the schools had Apple computers. Mostly low end Macintosh's that were pretty much intended to be bought and used by schools. Macintosh LCs being the most common one, of course that makes sense because the LC was severely gimped to cut costs (I believe it had a 32-bit CPU on only a 16-bit bus and so was insanely slow and had a low memory ceiling).

There were a few (ancient) computer labs at some schools I went to that still had Apple IIs.

For a good part of the 90s, Macs were preferred here by creative professionals. They even made two late model 68k Macs specifically for Photoshop and video editing, the Centris 660AV and Quadra 840AV. These had a specialized AT&T DSP that sped up some operations in Photoshop. They also had S-Video, and A/V composite jacks.

I think the reason Macs were preferred by "creative professionals" back then, especially the late 80s/early 90s, was the complexity of the PC platform, with some motherboards having ISA, PCI, VESA local bus, and others all at the same time, all of which had to be assigned IRQ and DMA addresses, which could cause conflicts. On top of that, the GUI usability and suitability for something like graphics editing probably didn't catch up to Mac until at least Windows 95. All told, in the early 90s, the extra money spent on a Mac was probably actually comparable to buying a PC and equipping it with the video cards needed to do graphics or video work. With far less headache than trying to do it on PC. Anyone who used/configured a PC in the late 80s/early 90s can tell you how much of a headache it was.

Anyway, Macs were very popular in the early 90s in schools and for creative professionals. Some time in the early 2000s (probably with WinXP) Windows and PCs caught up and became way more user friendly and pretty much equivalent or better in features, so this "Macs are better for creative design" mantra became largely forgotten except among die hard Mac fans who haven't touched a PC in the last 15 years.


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## alltoasters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *neurotix*
> 
> Never even seen or used an Amiga at all, that's how unpopular and rare they are here. Well, I may have seen one at a convention but not known what it was (I was mostly there for console games anyway).
> 
> When I was a kid here in the late 80s and early 90s, all the schools had Apple computers. Mostly low end Macintosh's that were pretty much intended to be bought and used by schools. Macintosh LCs being the most common one, of course that makes sense because the LC was severely gimped to cut costs (I believe it had a 32-bit CPU on only a 16-bit bus and so was insanely slow and had a low memory ceiling).
> 
> There were a few (ancient) computer labs at some schools I went to that still had Apple IIs.
> 
> For a good part of the 90s, Macs were preferred here by creative professionals. They even made two late model 68k Macs specifically for Photoshop and video editing, the Centris 660AV and Quadra 840AV. These had a specialized AT&T DSP that sped up some operations in Photoshop. They also had S-Video, and A/V composite jacks.
> 
> I think the reason Macs were preferred by "creative professionals" back then, especially the late 80s/early 90s, was the complexity of the PC platform, with some motherboards having ISA, PCI, VESA local bus, and others all at the same time, all of which had to be assigned IRQ and DMA addresses, which could cause conflicts. On top of that, the GUI usability and suitability for something like graphics editing probably didn't catch up to Mac until at least Windows 95. All told, in the early 90s, the extra money spent on a Mac was probably actually comparable to buying a PC and equipping it with the video cards needed to do graphics or video work. With far less headache than trying to do it on PC. Anyone who used/configured a PC in the late 80s/early 90s can tell you how much of a headache it was.
> 
> Anyway, Macs were very popular in the early 90s in schools and for creative professionals. Some time in the early 2000s (probably with WinXP) Windows and PCs caught up and became way more user friendly and pretty much equivalent or better in features, so this "Macs are better for creative design" mantra became largely forgotten except among die hard Mac fans who haven't touched a PC in the last 15 years.


32bit cpu on a 16 bit databus sounds a bit like the 8088 in the original IBM PC, which had 16 bit registers but only an 8 bit data bus. Programmers dedicated their careers to getting the most out of that thing. Michael Abrash wrote about it at length in one of his books I read.

I'd not ever seen a Mac until very late in the Power PC era. Originally the Amiga was the professional computer of choice because it could do photo and video editing earlier and better than anything else, but once they died out, windows pcs started eating up that user base, with macs slowly eating away at them for the next decade.

The school computer of choice here was definitely the BBC micro from the early 80s onwards, mixed in with the Acorn Archimedes from the late 80s, then supplemented by Windows 95/98 pcs when they became available. This was due to Acorn's big push into the education sector and the BBC and Tesco computing schemes.

I think the reasons the Acorn machines had such staying power in early education is because the software written for them is still just as relevant as it was then, the machines were very robust and still run properly, and the educational software library was so large for them due to them having completely cornered the market. The OS was also very user friendly and easy to teach.

Schools didn't use macs here until the last decade or so. Now they are reasonably common. When I was in high school they bought in a bunch of imacs for video editing ("because that is what professionals use"), then failed to provide any software. Morons didn't understand it is the software that matters. Being stuck with imovie was more of a pain than the old pentium d machines with windows xp movie maker they replaced. The money would have been much better spent on licences for something like sony vegas, but I digress.


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## EXVAS3221

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLx053rWZxCiYWsBETgdKrQ Lazy Game Reviews, he dose a lot of old retro gaming reviews!


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## RockeyDA

is the TV in the cover of this a Zenith? it looks like a Zenith.


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## neurotix

Bump guys?

No clue about that TV but not sure how much it matters lol. They were all pretty bad back then


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## RockeyDA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *neurotix*
> 
> Bump guys?
> 
> No clue about that TV but not sure how much it matters lol. They were all pretty bad back then


if that tv is what i think it is, its a super cheep zeenith from the mid 80's that was still black and white. and if it is one of thoes it is a TV with a really nice picture, i would game on that before and LCD.


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## RockeyDA

My Living Room!


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## Wolfsbora

Ohhhh wow, that is now one of my favorite living rooms!! Great setup! Here are a couple of slightly outdated pics of my games room:


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## RockeyDA

wow, that game collection, since i get most everything broken for free or cheep i have alot of systems, dont work that way for games.



My modern gaming setup!


when i move to my own place in the middle of no wear its gonna be a nightmare.


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