# 5800X3D Owners



## Farih

Subbed


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## kairi_zeroblade

I am curious on where to get that PBO2 Tuner app, I know its from someone here over on OCN, but I also think its not publicly available.


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## tcclaviger

kairi_zeroblade said:


> I am curious on where to get that PBO2 Tuner app, I know its from someone here over on OCN, but I also think its not publicly available.


No one told me that, I'll post it tomorrow 

To not clutter the gaming results since it will be a lot of screen shots when complete, here is a shot of hwinfo during 16 thread run of cpuz bench to show VIDs etc being requested.
When interpreting temps, consider my coolant is 51f while this is running, room ambient is 84f, so on a ambient radiator based loop I would be at least +18.6c hotter on the cores, but more realistically about 24c hotter using a 10f air/water delta for ambient loop math (sorry for interchanging units, it's how I think):








Capture of the same during 1t boosting:


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## Taraquin

Nice info and testing! I wish they had allowed for negative CO, would have gotten a nice multicore boost (up to 6% if -30 CO is possible), also would liwered temps in SC scenarios.


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## Mach3.2

kairi_zeroblade said:


> I am curious on where to get that PBO2 Tuner app, I know its from someone here over on OCN, but I also think its not publicly available.











[Official] AMD Ryzen DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


This is the limit you can raise to in rm if you leave them on auto What's the point in raising it then, if it will never apply? I mean (if I get it right from your post) your BIOS allowed EDC limit to be manually set to max 220 amps, and that it's way below the actual mb limit? This is the...




www.overclock.net


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## OCmember

Will probably be joining the club on release day.


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## Luggage

My gb5 as comparison.


Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. MS-7C35 vs ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser



the difference for aes, speech and machine learning are huge.


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## jonathandc1984

Awesome initial write up. I’ll be jumping on the bandwagon as soon as it is released. 

Quick question and hoping somebody can assist -
Does anybody know if the crosshair viii dark hero has an external clock generator and also supports the voltage suspension feature available in the crosshair viii extreme?

thank you kindly.


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## tcclaviger

jonathandc1984 said:


> Awesome initial write up. I’ll be jumping on the bandwagon as soon as it is released.
> 
> Quick question and hoping somebody can assist -
> Does anybody know if the crosshair viii dark hero has an external clock generator and also supports the voltage suspension feature available in the crosshair viii extreme?
> 
> thank you kindly.


it does have an external generator it can do what I'm doing, it is missing voltage suspension but voltage suspension is the least important of all the technologies to help overclocking using the Crosshair and x3d CPU. I'm using a Crosshair 6 extreme at the moment which is a 5-year-old Zen One release and that's what all the scores posted above were obtained with. I chose this over my Crosshair 7 Hero because, frankly, the C6E is a better board in almost every regard (boot times being the main exception).



Taraquin said:


> Nice info and testing! I wish they had allowed for negative CO, would have gotten a nice multicore boost (up to 6% if -30 CO is possible), also would liwered temps in SC scenarios.


Curve Optimizer can be used using the pbo2 tuner but it doesn't need to be. That's why I mentioned it behaves differently than other Zen 3 CPUs, simply dropping the Curve for each core does not necessarily produce a better results like it does on all the other Zen 3s.
It's so low voltage stock that it ends up dropping voltage to a point where it no longer boosts properly and instead gets stuck at like 4 ghz when using more than -10 CO values for my sample. It's also not TDC/EDC/PPT limited through virtue of not hitting the limiters, so less power doesn't help anything.

The only time I've observed similar behavior on normal Zen3 is when PPT is cut so far down the CPU now doesn't have headroom to boost right, like PPT 50 on a 5950x.


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## yzonker

Some good info for sure. I may grab one of these if I can manage to get it. Anyone know what time of day they will go up Wednesday?


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## tcclaviger

yzonker said:


> Some good info for sure. I may grab one of these if I can manage to get it. Anyone know what time of day they will go up Wednesday?


I was shocked they shipped mine early, had no idea it was going to happen (might have been a mistake tbh), so I was unprepared and still waiting on the Crosshair 8 and second memory waterblock to arrive to do the 5950x comparison data hah.

I would see if you can find a place like B&H that has them on "Waiting list only" so you get a notification the instant they drop if you want one. Despite a lot of nay-sayers, I have feeling it's going to sell like Zen 3 originally did at launch...quickly.


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## Lionvibez

kairi_zeroblade said:


> I am curious on where to get that PBO2 Tuner app, I know its from someone here over on OCN, but I also think its not publicly available.












Direct link here.





Debug.7z







drive.google.com


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## yzonker

tcclaviger said:


> I was shocked they shipped mine early, had no idea it was going to happen (might have been a mistake tbh), so I was unprepared and still waiting on the Crosshair 8 and second memory waterblock to arrive to do the 5950x comparison data hah.
> 
> I would see if you can find a place like B&H that has them on "Waiting list only" so you get a notification the instant they drop if you want one. Despite a lot of nay-sayers, I have feeling it's going to sell like Zen 3 originally did at launch...quickly.


Thanks for the tip. I suspect if I don't have windows open to BH/Newegg/Amazon/AMD/etc... when they drop though, I won't have a chance of getting one. Looks like previous releases have all been the standard 6:00 AM PT, so I'll have to tell my boss I have an "appointment" that morning (thanks to them blocking everything on the internet at work). LOL


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## Lionvibez

Hmm also on a side note it seems Ryzen master now also has access to Curve Optimizer



https://www.tomshardware.com/news/curve-optimizer-heads-to-ryzen-master-for-zen-3-cpus


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## tcclaviger

Lionvibez said:


> Hmm also on a side note it seems Ryzen master now also has access to Curve Optimizer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.tomshardware.com/news/curve-optimizer-heads-to-ryzen-master-for-zen-3-cpus
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2556621


Good to know for those who use RM. I refuse to ever touch it again, but at least the option is out there.


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## Panchovix

Lionvibez said:


> Hmm also on a side note it seems Ryzen master now also has access to Curve Optimizer
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.tomshardware.com/news/curve-optimizer-heads-to-ryzen-master-for-zen-3-cpus
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2556621


Not 5800X3D user here (just a 5800X), but testing this and it has been pretty good, finally an "official" AMD Auto curve optimizer.


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## des2k...

Panchovix said:


> Not 5800X3D user here (just a 5800X), but testing this and it has been pretty good, finally an "official" AMD Auto curve optimizer.
> View attachment 2556638


The curve optimizer is interesting. I didn't even know that was a thing with Ryzen Master.
Started this morning to see what all CO value would be stable for my 5900x.

-27 worked for all cores. Now I'm doing 1h OCCT cycler for each core to see which one can handle -30.
I'll confirm with Prime95, OCCT 8h overnight once I have all my values.


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## Luggage

des2k... said:


> The curve optimizer is interesting. I didn't even know that was a thing with Ryzen Master.
> Started this morning to see what all CO value would be stable for my 5900x.
> 
> -27 worked for all cores. Now I'm doing 1h OCCT cycler for each core to see which one can handle -30.
> I'll confirm with Prime95, OCCT 8h overnight once I have all my values.


Read the corecycler thread.


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## tcclaviger

des2k... said:


> The curve optimizer is interesting. I didn't even know that was a thing with Ryzen Master.
> Started this morning to see what all CO value would be stable for my 5900x.
> 
> -27 worked for all cores. Now I'm doing 1h OCCT cycler for each core to see which one can handle -30.
> I'll confirm with Prime95, OCCT 8h overnight once I have all my values.


Corecycler is better unattended testing imo because OCCT doesn't always let you know which core trigger a restart when CO is too aggressive, cycler does via the log. It's also slightly better at triggering faults than OCCT. OCCT is great for roughing it in, as you have done.


I was curious how the extra cache and powering it impacts the X3D vs normal Zen 3 so I did a few tests.

I disabled CCD1 on my 5950x, set DOCS to 44.5 at 1.263 VID and then capped single core boost to 4550 using PBO2 Tuner, so simulate the 5800X3D and see what, exactly, the cache does outside gaming and check silicon quality between them.

X3D and simulated X3D use identical VID during 4550 limited 1t boosting, and my 5950x has a very, very good CCD0. Hopefully this is the norm for all X3Ds and I didn't get an outlier.

Package Power draw is consistently 5 watts higher for simulated x3D, no explanation other than MB differences maybe.


Cpuz within a couple of points multi, exactly the same score single.
R23 simulated x3D wins by multi by 200 points, the nature of DOCS vs PB2 all core loads, manual always wins given frequency parity. Single score is within 2 points.
GB5: 1645/12153 vs 1619/11419 X3D, Simulated X3D respectively. X3D cache is helping here.
Passmark below:
X3D






Simulated X3D


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## Veii

tcclaviger said:


> PBO2 Tuner allows CO and PBO limits to be manipulated, do so carefully if you it, it doesn't behave quite the same as other zen3s do. For those who used a Zen 2 x cpu and a Zen 2 xt cpu, it boosts more like the xt variant. Flatlining target speed if temp headroom is available instead of floating like Zen 2x and Zen 3 Dual CCD chips.


"PBO tuner" is capable to move limits bellow AMD CBS supplied power limits which are for Skatterbencher








PBO Tuner on first usage needs to "reset" the values
It only works till AMD allows it
SMU Mailbox is locked in default state, but HSMP is identical and "not" locked ~ for now

RSMU has a firmware lock, which users of new chipset drivers, ryzen master or AGESA 1206*C *will get
Asus 1206B is questionable if it's nature is indeed B and not C ~ yet soft-toggles on patch B are defaulting on disabled, but are not hardlocks

Sample moves under same microcode as every other Vermeer B2 CPU
~ support for it should exist since before AGESA 1.2.0.3C but CO boosting curve behaves better after 1204 AGESA for all B2 units & cezanne
CPUID 00A20F*12h* not 10h

L3 cache does not heat up, used thick interposer onto cores, translates heat badly
4.5Ghz Freq should usually require near 1.2v - but sample can be indeed more hungry
L3 cache matches core Freq, but L3 cache does not match coreVID. The "reason of worry" is complicated.


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## tcclaviger

Veii said:


> Sample moves under same microcode as every other Vermeer B2 CPU
> CPUID 00A20F*12h* not 10h


Yeah it looks like his sample was much more voltage hungry than mine or the lower temps I'm holding are impacting behavior.

I am using the recent Gigabyte published Chipset drivers on this OS build, published on 14 April, 4.04.11.742 WHQL here: X570 AORUS MASTER (rev. 1.1/1.2) Support | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global

I'm on 1.2.0.6b now, 8503 Bios for C6E. What does the shift from 10h to 12h change in regard to behavior?


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## Veii

tcclaviger said:


> I'm on 1.2.0.6b now, 8503 Bios for C6E. What does the shift from 10h to 12h change in regard to behavior?


Fully unclear. From the labs perspective it's security patches
Also shift into higher ratio of better chips - substrate color change, optimized for higher efficiency on lower voltage

From the OC perspective, potentially zero (now factoring in all B2's)
No change on FIT firmware and no direct change on interconnect speed ~ so also no change (sadly) on WHEA issues (missed opportunity attempt #2)
X3D potentially has internal clock speed increase, which accumulate to high heat on low wattage ~ but this is speculation

Data is,
Substrate color change = generally a higher chance of getting better binned units with less leaky silicon
Yet lemons are worse on average, but might not matter too much as chance to get a better unit outside of Gen-X has increased.

Microcode based:
Unclear. A very big chunk misses from recent AGESA 1.2.0.4+ microcode ~ which can be the USB patches, now injected fully into coretex Firmware
But code is too big, to be only security patches.
Microcode patches are supplied and injected if they don't exist. It happens on the first and checks on every CPU swap
Microcode if identical, is not loaded from ROM but from internal chip firmware.







A lock injected into the sample, can be a permanent ~ but it's unclear if substrate VID limit of 1.3v are just AGESA sideeffects, or fab's hardfused voltage limit on this SKU


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## tcclaviger

Veii said:


> [sic]
> A lock injected into the sample, can be a permanent ~ but it's unclear if substrate VID limit of 1.3v are just AGESA sideeffects, or fab's hardfused voltage limit on this SKU


This I find rather disturbing, so.... probably wont update the boards this chip resides in past 1.2.0.6b without more info. Quite happy with x3D results so far.

Thanks, always a fount of knowledge Veii


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## des2k...

tcclaviger said:


> Corecycler is better unattended testing imo because OCCT doesn't always let you know which core trigger a restart when CO is too aggressive, cycler does via the log. It's also slightly better at triggering faults than OCCT. OCCT is great for roughing it in, as you have done.


Well since I started with OCCT I'll finish that before moving to other tools. The new cycler for Zen CO testing is actually very impressive.

It's not just cycling between cores, it's doing a combination of idle, single core, multi core load.

For example, 
All core co-27 passes 1h
All core co-30 fails on core 6

From co-27 all cores
+core 0 co-30 passes 1h
+core 1 co-30 makes core6 crash ~15mins
+core 1 -29 passes 1h


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## tcclaviger

Leave 1 check in the Physical cores section, disable swap cores, use small data set instead of large and it'll find instability, almost guarantee it  Large data set is cool, easy to run, and less far less harsh on the core as fair as error testing. More a FCLK/IMC test.

As I outlined above it will walk between cores, 1 at a time, and boost to 1t max speeds instead of testing at full load boost levels all the time as it is in your screen shot, which is much easier to pass when CO testing (and leads to false stability beliefs, which then manifest as "random restarts" in normal PC use).


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## Veii

tcclaviger said:


> This I find rather disturbing, so.... probably wont update the boards this chip resides in past 1.2.0.6b without more info. Quite happy with x3D results so far.
> 
> Thanks, always a fount of knowledge Veii


Since recent changes and little disassembly , i start to doubt ASUS's 1206B updates, as they redid it ~ think it's patch C in reality
It might be already too late, but when more eyes take a look on it - at least one pair will notice something odd. Soo i have hope

If you are in elmorlabs discord (and use this platform) PM me pls,
I'd like to give you something which's release i haven't decided yet how to do publicly
Would like to have an read-only readout from ASUS boards too, just to be fully confident.
They might not deserve my suspicion ~ after all, every Vendor had to conform to AMD's last minute decision change & Vendors remain to be on our side within their allowed operation

@des2k... i often tune curve margin (CO) on AVX2 enforced droop.
When you tune CO it's recommended to open up limits, so the "real VID" is requested, not the powerlimited by PPT, TDC, EDC


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## des2k...

Veii said:


> @des2k... i often tune curve margin (CO) on AVX2 enforced droop.
> When you tune CO it's recommended to open up limits, so the "real VID" is requested, not the powerlimited by PPT, TDC, EDC


I will try small sse physical core cycle like prev user suggested and avx for sure.

The reason why I started with large sse is because of undervolt range 1 count is 3mv-5mv.

I was thinking of the biggest range 5mv as that one has more chances of failing faster. But I could be wrong, not a CO expert.


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## Luggage

Veii said:


> @des2k... i often tune curve margin (CO) on AVX2 enforced droop.
> When you tune CO it's recommended to open up limits, so the "real VID" is requested, not the powerlimited by PPT, TDC, EDC


"open up" - for 5800X:
like 180-120-160 that... is hard to reach with most workloads unless you have a big custom loop
like 208-135-170 - is ~1% above what I can use on 5800X with water under 5C - any workload.
like 300-200-700 - that is fun for adia l3 latency but not much more.
like 4096-4096-4096 - that is max manual limits on higher end MSI mb and frankly stupid as heck.


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## des2k...

Luggage said:


> "open up" - for 5800X:
> like 180-120-160 that... is hard to reach with most workloads unless you have a big custom loop
> like 208-135-170 - is ~1% above what I can use on 5800X with water under 5C - any workload.
> like 300-200-700 - that is fun for adia l3 latency but not much more.
> like 4096-4096-4096 - that is max manual limits on higher end MSI mb and frankly stupid as heck.


this 5900x is capped by AMD at 210w for cinebench regardless of PBO limit.
Prime95 is capped too ~185w

CPU temps are not an issue, both cinebench MT & Prime95 push 4.8 clocks. It doesn't go past 65c for 8hour loops with 22c ambient.
No idea why temp is so low. I did measure the IHS with razor and it's very flat. My old EK block was lapped & used kingpin paste this time.

x570 Gigabyte Aorus master or agesa ver also doesn't like having TDC not equal to EDC so I'm at 200 140 140 currently. It's enough to score 24.4k in R23 MT


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## Luggage

des2k... said:


> this 5900x is capped by AMD at 210w for cinebench regardless of PBO limit.
> Prime95 is capped too ~185w
> 
> CPU temps are not an issue, both cinebench MT & Prime95 push 4.8 clocks. It doesn't go past 65c for 8hour loops with 22c ambient.
> No idea why temp is so low. I did measure the IHS with razor and it's very flat. My old EK block was lapped & used kingpin paste this time.
> 
> x570 Gigabyte Aorus master or agesa ver also doesn't like having TDC not equal to EDC so I'm at 200 140 140 currently. It's enough to score 24.4k in R23 MT


Everything here reads strange 
I can't push more than 165-170W in r23.
P95 easily pulls 200+W and 78C with LM TIM and 10C water custom loop.


http://imgur.com/wxXo9sw


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## Veii

Luggage said:


> like 4096-4096-4096 - that is max manual limits on higher end MSI mb and frankly stupid as heck.


Firmware caps out for me at








But 420-420-420 is open enough
Scalar usually bellow 7X, 6X works well or lower

X3D is








~ for now


des2k... said:


> The reason why I started with large sse is because of undervolt range 1 count is 3mv-5mv.


That and each cores inside same CCD will pull other cores down - dLDO_Injector (digital low dropout regulator)
The same goes between CCDs too


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## tcclaviger

Veii said:


> Since recent changes and little disassembly , i start to doubt ASUS's 1206B updates, as they redid it ~ think it's patch C in reality
> It might be already too late, but when more eyes take a look on it - at least one pair will notice something odd. Soo i have hope
> 
> If you are in elmorlabs discord (and use this platform) PM me pls,
> I'd like to give you something which's release i haven't decided yet how to do publicly
> Would like to have an read-only readout from ASUS boards too, just to be fully confident.
> They might not deserve my suspicion ~ after all, every Vendor had to conform to AMD's last minute decision change & Vendors remain to be on our side within their allowed operation
> 
> @des2k... i often tune curve margin (CO) on AVX2 enforced droop.
> When you tune CO it's recommended to open up limits, so the "real VID" is requested, not the powerlimited by PPT, TDC, EDC


I kind of abandoned discord, but I'll hop back on. I took some screenshots to see the build dates for 1.2.0.6"b" Asus bioses to see if they made sense regarding b and c patches, doesn't tell me much, but you've more insight into these things.














PS: C6E VDIMM report is such garbage lol. 1.591v reported, 1.55 set in bios, 1.525 actual via DMM.


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## Luggage

Veii said:


> Firmware caps out for me at
> View attachment 2556692
> 
> But 420-420-420 is open enough
> Scalar usually bellow 7X, 6X works well or lower
> 
> X3D is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~ for now
> 
> That and each cores inside same CCD will pull other cores down - dLDO_Injector (digital low dropout regulator)
> The same goes between CCDs too


You haven't had performance drop setting limits that high over fuse limits?


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## des2k...

Veii said:


> That and each cores inside same CCD will pull other cores down - dLDO_Injector (digital low dropout regulator)
> The same goes between CCDs too


Now it makes sense. CO values(-30 -29 -28) on some cores from ccd1 are making ccd2 core 6,7,11 unstable and fail within 5-15mins on OCCT.

At the same time those ccd1 cores were passing testing.


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## PJVol

des2k... said:


> this 5900x is capped by AMD at 210w for cinebench regardless of PBO limit.
> Prime95 is capped too ~185w
> 
> CPU temps are not an issue, both cinebench MT & Prime95 push 4.8 clocks. It doesn't go past 65c for 8hour loops with 22c ambient.
> No idea why temp is so low. I did measure the IHS with razor and it's very flat. My old EK block was lapped & used kingpin paste this time.


If you're on AGESA 1205-1206, then the low temps is likely resulted from a new max VID ceiling. Perhaps additional L3 layers require more stringent control over the EDC for the CCX critical paths. Limiting the max requested voltage could be the most straightforward way to do that (though at the cost of reduced performance in 2D vermeers in cases where FIT wouldn't constraint it), since dynamic power is in quadratic relation with Vcore.


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## Luggage

PJVol said:


> If you're on AGESA 1205-1206, then the low temps is likely resulted from a new max VID ceiling. Perhaps additional L3 layers require more stringent control over the EDC for the CCX critical paths. Limiting the max requested voltage could be the most straightforward way to do that (though at the cost of reduced performance in 2D vermeers in cases where FIT wouldn't constraint it), since dynamic power is in quadratic relation with Vcore.


1203c

"stock" pbo limitis - hitting limits and running slow and cold


http://imgur.com/cCNRct8


vs 

"high" pbo limits - 95% of limits, boosting up to thermal or vid/fit limit?


http://imgur.com/lPp3SGb


for p95 any new "official" voltage limit should sill run plenty hot


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## Taraquin

tcclaviger said:


> it does have an external generator it can do what I'm doing, it is missing voltage suspension but voltage suspension is the least important of all the technologies to help overclocking using the Crosshair and x3d CPU. I'm using a Crosshair 6 extreme at the moment which is a 5-year-old Zen One release and that's what all the scores posted above were obtained with. I chose this over my Crosshair 7 Hero because, frankly, the C6E is a better board in almost every regard (boot times being the main exception).
> 
> 
> Curve Optimizer can be used using the pbo2 tuner but it doesn't need to be. That's why I mentioned it behaves differently than other Zen 3 CPUs, simply dropping the Curve for each core does not necessarily produce a better results like it does on all the other Zen 3s.
> It's so low voltage stock that it ends up dropping voltage to a point where it no longer boosts properly and instead gets stuck at like 4 ghz when using more than -10 CO values for my sample. It's also not TDC/EDC/PPT limited through virtue of not hitting the limiters, so less power doesn't help anything.
> 
> The only time I've observed similar behavior on normal Zen3 is when PPT is cut so far down the CPU now doesn't have headroom to boost right, like PPT 50 on a 5950x.


Okay. At -10, didn't that lower temp single core or make multicore run a bit faster?


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## PJVol

Luggage said:


> "high" pbo limits - 95% of limits, boosting up to thermal or vid/fit limit?
> for p95 any new "official" voltage limit should sill run plenty hot


In case of Prime95 there's always FPU threshold hit first, followed by clock/power gating according to its units' Cac weights (if Cac interface is up) and/or its switching activity (that's what I think CCA is really for).
Otherwise idk how it's possible to account for such activity just basing on FIT tracker or V/FT curves (if they really exist). May be someone more knowlegable correct me here.
As for CBR23 - i'm pretty sure it's FIT limited when TDC and PPT aren't restricted.


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## tcclaviger

Taraquin said:


> Okay. At -10, didn't that lower temp single core or make multicore run a bit faster?


In a setup where the cpu was cooled by less effective cooling, like an AIO or Large air cooler, there may be improvements from small CO adjustments by reducing heat and getting a bit more effective clock speed as a result. In my case, it stays under 55c during R23, cool enough that the only limit being hit is max multiplier.

With stock x3d setup:
Multi core speed, no increase at all. When I say it's flatlined at 4450mhz boost, I mean it boosts to 4450 and never deviates, at least not long enough for 250ms refresh interval HWinfo to catch. 

The difference between manually clocked 4450mhz on a single ccd active 5950x and the x3d in multi core R23 is ~ 0.9%, 15400 and 15250 respectively.

The difference between single core for the boost limited to 4540 single active ccd 5950x that's CO tuned and x3d is 0.1%. 1494 and 1492 respectively.

CO adjustments at -10 on all but best core showed nothing useful, 80ish points gained in cpuz multi test, from 6480 to 6560. It's a real result not test variance, but it's an incredibly light load so representative of nothing really. Going too far to -15, showed performance regression. The guard band is miniscule as delivered.


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## tcclaviger

Started fiddling with exploring going faster than 4795 1t/4690 16t and ran into the first sign of trouble, but also promise...

At 105.8 I ran into single core boost instability; it needs more voltage. This is where CO will help. Initially I bumped vcore offset 1 more notch, to 0.01875, but the same results, 3dmark 1t triggers a instant reboot, similar to how 5950x behaves with too much negative CO applied.

Backed vcore offset back down to to +0.0125 and working on minimal values of positive offset required for single core stability at 4813mhz 1t boost. 1.194 SVI2 is simply not enough at that speed on Zen 3.

Testing higher now and things are acting up more, will require more involvement to get stable without resorting to just shoving vcore offset at the problem. 107.4 up and running....

Now beating stock 5800x and many OC results I've seen of mediocre PBO only 5800x OCs... we're not done yet, not by a long shot  

It has stopped flatlining all core boost at max multiplier, a sign PB2 is starting to run into some challenges with the power budget of 142/95/140. *////Now entering "you'll likely damage the CPU if you do this on AIR/AIO/Ambient water" territory.////*









AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4778.69 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


[fc8ph3] Validated Dump by OLDROG (2022-04-17 22:45:28) - MB: Asus ROG CROSSHAIR VI EXTREME - RAM: 32768 MB




valid.x86.fr


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## tcclaviger

107.4 Results so far, as I mentioned earlier, AIDA 64 isn't the X3D's forte, but these numbers are a big improvement from stock:


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## MrHoof

tcclaviger said:


> 107.4 Results so far, as I mentioned earlier, AIDA 64 isn't the X3D's forte, but these numbers are a big improvement from stock:
> View attachment 2556839
> View attachment 2556840
> View attachment 2556841


Well that isnt even a bad Aida score tbh. Regular 5800x but thats kinda the limit for it at 3800mhz.


----------



## tcclaviger

Think my frame of reference is skewed for AIDA from my 5950 lol, was shocked to see latency as high as it is at first on X3D, but the CPU speed is probably a big hindrance in that test.


----------



## MrHoof

Would you mind trying y-crunsher?


----------



## tcclaviger

I just published on Hwbot  Bloated windows 10, almost default install so efficiency is garbage but there they are.

I'll eventually get around to throwing high effort scores up, but not until people start posting ones that beat mine. Still carefully exploring behavior as there are some peculiarities involved vs X series SKUs.

Ultimate personal goal is 45.5x110 stable for 5005 mhz 1t in daily config. Not sure I'll get there without some rather extreme measures but I'm going to try.


----------



## rdr09

AMD is supposedly working on it.









AMD Reportedly Working to Enable Overclocking on the Ryzen 7 5800X3D | Hardware Times


AMD’s Ryzen 7 5800X3D is one of the first CPUs from the company to launch with a locked multiplier, preventing proper overclocking. As usual, enthusiasts have found ways to push the chip beyond its marketed boost clock of 4.5GHz. By completely ignoring the multiplier and increasing the BLCK...




 www.hardwaretimes.com


----------



## tcclaviger

CO, they're going to officially add CO. What else they add is entirely anyone's guess, but don't hold your breath for PBO or multipliers over 45.5. I would expect them to unlock multipliers below though, ala non-k Intel CPUs.

I suspect the delay is moving CO outside the PBO menu or ensuring PBO options besides CO are disabled.

As it is, PBO "can" be enabled through trickery, but boosting is disabled so they've done shenanigans in the Microcode we can't see/access, trickery or not.

PS: All these cute cpuz 5000+ are gilding only at least so far. I have zero confidence they can actually run a heavy load unless on LN2, even then, somewhat unlikely, but not impossible for the brave to do it.


----------



## PJVol

Lol, ...preventing "proper" overclocking...


----------



## blu3dragon

tcclaviger said:


> CO, they're going to officially add CO. What else they add is entirely anyone's guess, but don't hold your breath for PBO or multipliers over 45.5. I would expect them to unlock multipliers below though, ala non-k Intel CPUs.
> 
> I suspect the delay is moving CO outside the PBO menu or ensuring PBO options besides CO are disabled.
> 
> As it is, PBO "can" be enabled through trickery, but boosting is disabled so they've done shenanigans in the Microcode we can't see/access, trickery or not.
> 
> PS: All these cute cpuz 5000+ are gilding only at least so far. I have zero confidence they can actually run a heavy load unless on LN2, even then, somewhat unlikely, but not impossible for the brave to do it.


What's the trick to enabling PBO? Is this something that I could enable on an Asus B550-F?
(In your first post you mention PBO2 tuner works, so I assumed that was just through the bios).
Thanks in advance for the info.


----------



## AVATARAT

Does someone try what happens if boot with older BIOS (AGESA)?


----------



## tcclaviger

PJVol said:


> Lol, ...preventing "proper" overclocking...


Indeed. If only they had have left multis under 45.5 open, and allowed DOCS to function daily setups with very high single and reasonable but safe all
core performance could've been very easily obtained without breaching 1.3. shame.



blu3dragon said:


> What's the trick to enabling PBO? Is this something that I could enable on an Asus B550-F?
> (In your first post you mention PBO2 tuner works, so I assumed that was just through the bios).
> Thanks in advance for the info.


No, sadly it won't enable functionality that doesn't exist in a bios already. PBO2 Tuner is software, linked on first page.



AVATARAT said:


> Does someone try what happens if boot with older BIOS (AGESA)?


Will be doing so sometime after the 21st.


----------



## Taraquin

Enabling CO would belp, especially for those with poor cooling even though it may not work good below -10 acvording to one owner.


----------



## kaosstar

Are there any cheap, as in <=$200, B550 or x570 motherboards with external clock generators?


----------



## OCmember

I hope the fTMP bug gets fixed first, tbh


----------



## tcclaviger

Taraquin said:


> Enabling CO would belp, especially for those with poor cooling even though it may not work good below -10 acvording to one owner.


That is me, -10 or greater at stock BCLK was trigger boost malfunction, however, on hot systems that won't happen as they wont peg 44.5 solidly in the same way so it'll have a wider range of usefulness.



OCmember said:


> I hope the fTMP bug gets fixed first, tbh


Yeah, it's an issue. I just disable TPM, set bios to use discrete so it doesn't even look at fTPM, and stay on Win10. Tried 11, wasn't impressed with performance regression so swapped back.



kaosstar said:


> Are there any cheap, as in <=$200, B550 or x570 motherboards with external clock generators?


None I am aware of. MB shopping for me involves 2 steps: 1 - Look at Asus product stack, 2 - Buy the board that has the feature set I want.


-----
3080ti seated, cobbled together loop assembled for 3 days of testing before the Crosshair 8 Extreme arrives and I do a full rebuild on both PCs, functional but ugly lol.

3080ti doesn't tolerate BCLK over 102.2 so far, not bothered to try and improve this until on C8E.

Scores going up today, it's...pretty good and more than expected 2080ti vs 3080ti scaling in some cases, will update 1st post. Initial low effort 3dmark scores are ranging from top 3 to top 5 compared to 5800x + 3080ti leaderboard at 102.2 bclk. I'm using daily clocks and the gigabyte vbios at this point, there's a good bit of headroom left for 3dmark scores.


----------



## tcclaviger

A little high quality test for others to compare to more normal gaming settings, 3440x1440 vsync off:
Settings:



















Results:


----------



## Taraquin

Any owners care to test ram tuning vs stock? tcclaviger? Going from Zen2 to Zen3 I noticed that tuning ram didn`t matter that much (Zen2 often gave me up to 30% going from 3200cl16 xmp to 3800cl15 tuned B-die, Zen3 seldom gave more than 20%, probably due to larger L3 cache improving memory related performance). Any of you care to teest for instance SOTTR 1080lowest and see what CPU game avg you get stock vs tuned? My bet would be that you probably won`t get more than 10%, but I could be wrong.


----------



## urielejh

It's a pretty amazing cpu, the best @1080, given into account the low power consume and the good all-round performance for non-pro users. It has some edge at 1440 in some games but in the long run a cpu like the 5900x will be better suited for gaming @1440+ given the many cores. Games are going to use more and more cores and if someone like myself already play at 3440*1440 the next step is 4k.. And there you won't see any difference but core scaling if any.

Anyway, a great cpu to squeeze till the last the am4 platform, let's say anyone on a x370/470 or b450 with a 1st/2nd gen ryzen processor whose primary focus is gaming.


----------



## Blameless

urielejh said:


> in the long run a cpu like the 5900x will be better suited for gaming @1440+ given the many cores. Games are going to use more and more cores


Games have aspects that aren't easy to parallelize and there are hugely diminishing returns after a certain point. There is also the fact that a large portion of games are cross platform where eight-cores are expected and negligible effort is made to parallelize them further.

By the time a 5900X is significantly faster than a 5800X, let alone 5800X3D, in more than a tiny portion of CPU limited games, Zen 3 will be several generations old and quite long in the tooth. I'm not going to be using my 5800X3D in a front line system anywhere near that long.



urielejh said:


> And there you won't see any difference but core scaling if any.


That depends on the game. I typically play at 1440p or 4k, and I have games where my 5800X cannot push enough frames to make my GPU the limiting factor. It's true that these are poorly optimized and unusually serial titles, but I cannot rewrite them, so the only way to get more performance out of them is to brute force things with faster CPUs and memory subsystems.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

I read through the thread, and there is a lot of interesting results and feedback. Thanks for all the testing OP.

Question - Will you be benching games against your overclocks? E.g. stock X3D vs OC'd X3D.

It doesn't seem like OCing the chip has any impact over the general scaling that the L3 cache provides. But just curious to know how it holds up. Since most reviewers have covered nearly every popular game but without OCing, you may be able to generate some interesting data.

If its too much work, I understand


----------



## tcclaviger

Taraquin said:


> Any owners care to test ram tuning vs stock? tcclaviger? Going from Zen2 to Zen3 I noticed that tuning ram didn`t matter that much (Zen2 often gave me up to 30% going from 3200cl16 xmp to 3800cl15 tuned B-die, Zen3 seldom gave more than 20%, probably due to larger L3 cache improving memory related performance). Any of you care to teest for instance SOTTR 1080lowest and see what CPU game avg you get stock vs tuned? My bet would be that you probably won`t get more than 10%, but I could be wrong.


Would point to Hardware unboxed day 1 review, he did 3200 and 3800 on the otherwise same config, as did skatter Bencher, showing the ram impacts.

I'll run a full "Auto" memory test at ~3600 of SotTR later to compare to the 1st post #s. Auto-3600 is probably what most normies/noobies set it at so seems most relevant (like Ryzen master docp/xmp doesn't exist in my world).



Slaughtahouse said:


> I read through the thread, and there is a lot of interesting results and feedback. Thanks for all the testing OP.
> 
> 
> 
> Question - Will you be benching games against your overclocks? E.g. stock X3D vs OC'd X3D.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't seem like OCing the chip has any impact over the general scaling that the L3 cache provides. But just curious to know how it holds up. Since most reviewers have covered nearly every popular game but without OCing, you may be able to generate some interesting data.
> 
> 
> 
> If its too much work, I understand


The OC does show gains, in every title I've tested except weirdo console ported AC Odyssey. OC vs stock is in 1st post pictures. Called it stockish because RAM is tuned so it's not stock.

Mostly I am OCing to gain back general computing performance outside gaming, which it's done as well as can expected for a very constrained OCing window.



urielejh said:


> SIC...


EDIT: Check Hardware unboxed videos, these notions are demonstrablly false.


X3D in 40 games and Core count vs cache size videos. Extrapolate using 12900k using ddr5 review vs 5900x gaming defecit and you'll see a massive gain from 5900x to X3D, most certainly not limited to low res.
40 Games tested
Core count testing
Cache vs core count


----------



## Pictus

Does the X3D has a better memory controller or it is the +- the same?


----------



## Slaughtahouse

tcclaviger said:


> The OC does show gains, in every title I've tested except weirdo console ported AC Odyssey. OC vs stock is in 1st post pictures.


Ah, thanks for that. I didn't see the update. Cheers 

Looks like 1% gain (2080ti stock vs. OC) at typical resolutions (1080p / 1440p). Thanks for the data.


----------



## 1devomer

PJVol said:


> Lol, ...preventing "proper" overclocking...


I laughed more than i should have on this one, ty!


----------



## tcclaviger

Slaughtahouse said:


> Ah, thanks for that. I didn't see the update. Cheers
> 
> Looks like 1% gain (2080ti stock vs. OC) at typical resolutions (1080p / 1440p). Thanks for the data.


No worries, wall of text makes it easy to miss.



Taraquin said:


> RAM Test


As requested (reBAR enabled, SMT disabled):
3600 - Auto Timing - 100 BCLK













3800 - Timed - 100 BCLK
















Pictus said:


> Does the X3D has a better memory controller or it is the +- the same?


Seems consistent with other Zen 2/3s. IMC is slightly stronger than my 5950x and slightly worse than my 3900x.


----------



## tcclaviger

Star Citizen Quick Test
Youtube Video of Quick Test


----------



## Luggage

Taraquin said:


> Any owners care to test ram tuning vs stock? tcclaviger? Going from Zen2 to Zen3 I noticed that tuning ram didn`t matter that much (Zen2 often gave me up to 30% going from 3200cl16 xmp to 3800cl15 tuned B-die, Zen3 seldom gave more than 20%, probably due to larger L3 cache improving memory related performance). Any of you care to teest for instance SOTTR 1080lowest and see what CPU game avg you get stock vs tuned? My bet would be that you probably won`t get more than 10%, but I could be wrong.


I benched my 5800X + 2080ti with the same settings, save file and run path trough the village as capframex and xanxogaming.

pbo,co,4900.
3800cl14 tuned semi tight.
3600cl14 xmp rather loose.
3200cl14 same secondaries etc as 3800



http://imgur.com/uNN2zuP




http://imgur.com/a/NR2jg25


Xanox got 228fps with 5800x3d + 3080ti(?k)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512151405615849477
later they tested better ram but I haven’t checked timings.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515611189052596230


----------



## tcclaviger

Oops made an error


----------



## Blameless

Pictus said:


> Does the X3D has a better memory controller or it is the +- the same?


Same IOD as other Vermeer parts.



tcclaviger said:


> Did a quick check to verify the 1st point of Thermal Throttle on all core workloads, 65c is it. If you can keep it under 65c, under power limits (142package), under FIT voltage (1.3), it should peg 44.5. So ... there's your target for cooling:
> View attachment 2557204


What's the "CPU High Temperature Clock Limit" line in HWiNFO say?


----------



## tcclaviger

Luggage said:


> Nice


Cool work, kind of invalidates the whole 3200/14 or 3600/16 is "good enough" argument. Similar to the whole "air cooling is good enough".


----------



## tcclaviger

Blameless said:


> Same IOD as other Vermeer parts.
> 
> 
> 
> What's the "CPU High Temperature Clock Limit" line in HWiNFO say?











Going to test it real quick, seems I was hitting Package Power limit in first pic.

Seems it is correct at 85c, however, multiple other limiters are being hit before 85c, so, 85 seems kind of AMDs way of "moving it out of the way but leaving a safety in place".

Interesting point found while trying to test this: As soon as I let temps climb it started having stability issues and they got worse as the temperatures rose, quickly. 4560 steady in all core p95 is stable with 50f water, crashes after a bit at 75f, near insta-crashes by 80f.


----------



## OCmember

If the one I buy can't do 1900 IF..


----------



## OCmember

What game benchmark would best represent UT4 in DX11?


----------



## Taraquin

tcclaviger said:


> No worries, wall of text makes it easy to miss.
> 
> 
> As requested (reBAR enabled, SMT disabled):
> 3600 - Auto Timing - 100 BCLK
> View attachment 2557130
> View attachment 2557131
> 
> 3800 - Timed - 100 BCLK
> View attachment 2557132
> View attachment 2557133
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems consistent with other Zen 2/3s. IMC is slightly stronger than my 5950x and slightly worse than my 3900x.


Okay, seems my suspicions where correct. Only 5% improvement from 3600 auto to 3800 tuned. 5800X3D is very good for those running stock 3600 xmp, but boring for tweakers  From the graphs I saw it seems timings matters little, but bandwith/speed itself matters more so just going from a 3000-3200 xmp to 3800 xmp would yield better results than going from 3600 auto to 3800 tuned. Kinda opposite of regular Zenv2/3 where timings matters a lot. Seems high L3 cache makes timings much less relevant. A very good IO-die+lucky MB combo that can do 2000+ fclk sounds like the best deal for 5800X3D then.


----------



## tcclaviger

Taraquin said:


> Okay, seems my suspicions where correct. Only 5% improvement from 3600 auto to 3800 tuned. 5800X3D is very good for those running stock 3600 xmp, but boring for tweakers  From the graphs I saw it seems timings matters little, but bandwith/speed itself matters more so just going from a 3000-3200 xmp to 3800 xmp would yield better results than going from 3600 auto to 3800 tuned. Kinda opposite of regular Zenv2/3 where timings matters a lot. Seems high L3 cache makes timings much less relevant. A very good IO-die+lucky MB combo that can do 2000+ fclk sounds like the best deal for 5800X3D then.


It came to my attention today that SotTR Demo performance is far worse than the full game. Not sure if RAM speed margins will change but it's vastly faster than the demo.

Rerunning the tests with full game has yielded...distinctly better results.... Will update 1st post in a bit. Keep in mind games other than SotTR will behave quite differently with RAM speed changes, open world games streaming textures etc


----------



## domdtxdissar

tcclaviger said:


> It came to my attention today that SotTR Demo performance is far worse than the full game. Not sure if RAM speed margins will change but it's vastly faster than the demo.
> 
> Rerunning the tests with full has yielded...distinctly better results.... Will update 1st post in a bit.


If you want something to compare against, here are my game numbers for my max tuned regular zen3 (5950x)

Shadow of the Tomb Raider: 1080p lowest = 352 CPU Game fps average 
Horizon Zero Dawn: 1080p performance preset, lowest res scale = 301 average cpu fps 
F1 2020 1080p low: Australia benchmark location and dry weather = 490 average fps 
Farcry6 1080p ultra, HD-texture enabled, FSR QTY = 163 average fps 
Cyberpunk 2077: 1080p low = ~252 average fps



http://imgur.com/a/TZdNAzm

Think i will order a 5800x3d when it get released later today so i can do a real apple to apple comparison


----------



## Taraquin

domdtxdissar said:


> If you want something to compare against, here are my game numbers for my max tuned regular zen3 (5950x)
> 
> Shadow of the Tomb Raider: 1080p lowest = 352 CPU Game fps average
> Horizon Zero Dawn: 1080p performance preset, lowest res scale = 301 average cpu fps
> F1 2020 1080p low: Australia benchmark location and dry weather = 490 average fps
> Farcry6 1080p ultra, HD-texture enabled, FSR QTY = 163 average fps
> Cyberpunk 2077: 1080p low = ~252 average fps
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/TZdNAzm
> 
> Think i will order a 5800x3d when it get released later today so i can do a real apple to apple comparison


Remember your 5950X is tuned better than 99.99% of Zen3s  I hope you order a 5800X3D and do the same with it. As for benchmark, Cyberpunk is apparently quite inconsistent, do you get same results running 3 times in a row? SOTTR is quite consistent, usually only 1-2% variance on my setup.


----------



## tcclaviger

Well so here ya go, low effort run, first time I've seen over 500 fps let alone see it hold there for a bit. Luckily we have the same game version as well...:







40% GPU bound.... PCIE 3.0 at 8x choking it hard. 
Going to make an actual score attempt here and see if I can cut into that 40% some.... C8E can't arrive soon enough 


















Agree about CP2077 and anything Ubi, lots of variance to them.


----------



## xAD3r1ty

Guys where do you find the 5800x3d in Europe? I can't find it selling anywhere , I'm so tempted to just buy the 5950x on Amazon for 500 eur


----------



## Taraquin

Did you try 3866\1933+ fclk tcclaviger? WHEA19? It seems that sometimes you can eliminate WHEA19 by upping IOD and\or VDDP. With some adjustment to VDD18 it seems Zen 3 can scale past 3800\1900. I got no scaling in Y-cruncher with 4000 vs 3800, but I got 2% better SOTTR and dram calc test by going from tight 3800cl15 1t to 4000cl16 1t.


----------



## Taraquin

tcclaviger said:


> Well so here ya go, low effort run, first time I've seen over 500 fps let alone see it hold there for a bit. Luckily we have the same game version as well...:
> View attachment 2557260
> 
> View attachment 2557261
> View attachment 2557262
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agree about CP2077 and anything Ubi, lots of variance to them.


As for timings. If you run 1.5V+ on ram, try lower RFC, that can help performance quite a bit, 272, 256 or 240 may work (if you follow anta777s ruleset for RFFC). I would consider running CWL at 14 and try RDWR at 8 if it works, that may improve performance.


----------



## tcclaviger

I have, it boots to at least 2066 where I stopped checking.

No WHEA at idle or light loads at 1933. WHEA slowly ticking at, 2 or so a minute under heavy IO load.

From there they accelerate as speed goes up, didn't use for posting numbers here so as to give numbers that aren't tainted. For competetive scores there's a whole lot of performance left compared to what I've posted so far.

RAM is set at "safe" known stable I've verified for this kit/board. Didn't see much point in finding best settings until X3D resides in it's permanent home, the C8E instead of C6E.


----------



## Taraquin

tcclaviger said:


> I have, it boots to at least 2066 where I stopped checking.
> 
> No WHEA at idle or light loads at 1933. WHEA slowly ticking at, 2 or so a minute under heavy IO load.
> 
> From there they accelerate as speed goes up, didn't use for posting numbers here so as to give numbers that aren't tainted. For competetive scores there's a whole lot of performance left compared to what I've posted so far.
> 
> RAM is set at "safe" known stable I've verified for this kit/board. Didn't see much point in finding best settings until X3D resides in it's permanent home, the C8E instead of C6E.


Does raising IOD or VDDP eliminate WHEA19? It can do that on some setups. If you care to try, see if VDDP 1.0v removes WHEA19. I understand if you won`t bother until you get your permanent board


----------



## Veii

Blameless said:


> Same IOD as other Vermeer parts.


One to one repurposed 5800X B2 batches, maaybe if lucky even dual CCD B2 batches (but i doubt - would need different packaging)
Too much extra work==cost , vs just saving on one bad batch
================================================
Launch date is Today from this post in 3:20h
Soo Central europe time (GMT+1, Berlin time) at 13:00/1PM

Other information soo likely 2nd batch ~ is 22nd, Tokyo JST time ~ 11AM
Which is same CET Berlin timezone at 4AM
Maybe also will match AMD Shop 2nd batch launch

Good luck everyone~


----------



## tcclaviger

Taraquin said:


> Does raising IOD or VDDP eliminate WHEA19? It can do that on some setups. If you care to try, see if VDDP 1.0v removes WHEA19. I understand if you won`t bother until you get your permanent board


Haven't tried yet. I should have had my C8E yesterday, but the order was silently canceled with no notice, so I had to order elsewhere, once it arrives Thirsday I'll start final tune process. Will likely shoot for 2000 1:1 @ 105.6 bclk c14.


----------



## tcclaviger

This is all it can do with 8x PCIE 3.0. BAR off gives much better CPU Game rate, the 358 screenshot earlier, but causes loses elsewhere due to bandwidth to the GPU.


----------



## Blameless

tcclaviger said:


> Seems it is correct at 85c, however, multiple other limiters are being hit before 85c, so, 85 seems kind of AMDs way of "moving it out of the way but leaving a safety in place".


That's a strange automatic overclocking offset and clockspeed listed for the high tem limit. Did you set that somehow, is HWiNFO reading it wrong, or is that just how it's being reported by the chip?


----------



## Taraquin

tcclaviger said:


> Haven't tried yet. I should have had my C8E yesterday, but the order was silently canceled with no notice, so I had to order elsewhere, once it arrives Thirsday I'll start final tune process. Will likely shoot for 2000 1:1 @ 105.6 bclk c14.


Try raising VDD18 voltage a bit when going to 4000, you may get negative scaling past 3800 unless you do.


----------



## tcclaviger

Blameless said:


> That's a strange automatic overclocking offset and clockspeed listed for the high tem limit. Did you set that somehow, is HWiNFO reading it wrong, or is that just how it's being reported by the chip?


I did notice it, very odd lol.

Going to say that's probably BIOS configuration shenanigans with Asus OC options.


----------



## tcclaviger

Taraquin said:


> Try raising VDD18 voltage a bit when going to 4000, you may get negative scaling past 3800 unless you do.


To satisfy your curiosity I did a thing real quick just to verify, slow but steady ticking WHEA. A lot less than I have on my 5950x at these speeds.
Lossy Goosy timings, but just wanted to ensure I didn't have to fight ram for an hour over 1 stupid setting being off by 2 or something. 1.565 vdimm set, 1.54 on DMM.

Also... So much for T-topology not being able to hit 4000, a claim I've seen numerous times, clearly incorrect.


----------



## tcclaviger

But wait there's more:
Ok enough screwing with ram tonight lol. Heading out for some sleep.

PS: 4011MT/s passed a quick 3 round TM5 1usmus preset, not grossly unstable at least.


----------



## OCmember

If my reservation holds I'll have officially joined the club, yay


----------



## Veii

tcclaviger said:


> PS: 4011MT/s passed a quick 3 round TM5 1usmus preset, not grossly unstable at least.


Might want to contribute:
Zen RAM OC Leaderboards sheet was made for you
Requirements usually 1h memory test
Our requirements and germans is 10 000% Karhu/HCI or 25 cyles 1usmus_v3 TM5, or Anta777's 3+ loops

24//7 Thread goes with 25 cycles 1usmus_v3 TM5
German Hardwareluxx and Computerbase, go with 10 000% HCI or Karhu
Screenshot of WHEA free, is needed, soo hwinfo open
But for the best score, first aida64, then HWInfo, then TM5 , later OCCT extreme, and at the very end y-cruncher for 4 loops (72min)
~ that's how my screenshots are 
===============================================
Date for EU was moved slightly
Apparently release in 20min, 3PM local time instead 1PM

Asia time remains 22nd, 11AM JST == 4AM EU time, 3AM UK time


----------



## yzonker

I think I just scored one of these on Microcenter's web store.


----------



## Veii

Got one too
Here for german fellows, want to be nice as i was helped too





AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, 8C/16T, 3.40-4.50GHz, boxed ohne Kühler







www.e-tec.at












Scored for 50€ bucks less~


----------



## yzonker

Up on Newegg now.


----------



## sumitlian

Blameless said:


> By the time a 5900X is significantly faster than a 5800X, let alone 5800X3D, in more than a tiny portion of CPU limited games, Zen 3 will be several generations old and quite long in the tooth. I'm not going to be using my 5800X3D in a front line system anywhere near that long.


Exactly! I mean people don't seem to learn from the history. When Crysis 3 first came out, the SB-E 6c/12t CPUs were at the top in performance. Everybody was like (Including me as well), "whoa looks like the era of 6 core gaming arrived", BF3 performance was better and then around two years something later the 4th gen 4790k beat all of them and this was a quad core CPU. Then comes the era for relatively affordable HW-E 6c/12t (i7-5820K etc something) and then a couple of years later i7-7700K beat all of them in games at least. Fast forward some more years and just when everyone thought the 4c/8 CPUs were a dead end for gaming, there comes the Ryzen 3 3300X and it beat all previous 6c+ CPUs in gaming (in most situations). But the thing to learn here is the duration of each generation high end 4c/8t CPU being the greatest value is progressively decreasing for gaming.
That was the 4c story......

Now consoles have the 8c/16t CPUs. 5800X3D has by architecture more IPC than that. 5800X3D has more IPS that that. And with the 96 MB of L3 with 2 TB/s theoretical throughput, it appears to be the greatest CPU for gaming hands down. Let alone PC first games, take a look at all those console ports for PC that will be including extra runtime overhead (more frequent dynamic memory allocation/deallocation and possibly with bigger data blocks) and there will the large cache benefit the most. And this is why the 5800X3D is indeed for now the best gaming CPU in the world. And the benefits of having this CPU far outweighs the replacement cost, at least for old generation Ryzen based users who want the best gaming performance now at the moment.


----------



## Veii

@sumitlian , i gabled high ~ sold 5950X , bought 5700G + 5800X3D
We will see if i'm an id*t or genius 
* likely both , high gamble idi*t and genius // it's been needed for a render box and gaming PC. Doing both on one was suboptimal as my X264 presets are very harsh

I still have a believe that it's a great CPU, but considering they did not resolve the WHEA firmware issue ~ soo being identical to a 5800X-B2
It's as always more of a low-leaky silicon , toy

We can only hope, L3 cache interleaving, somehow alleviates 2:1 mode 10ns penalty
They sadly seems like couldn't get the better interposer in time, soo shouldn't have released in in the current overheating stage. Eh tameable but still


----------



## ZealotKi11er




----------



## Yuke

Followed this thread for upcoming 5950x comparison (same price). Finally gonna scrap my trash tier 3800x...


----------



## xAD3r1ty

Veii said:


> Got one too
> Here for german fellows, want to be nice as i was helped too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, 8C/16T, 3.40-4.50GHz, boxed ohne Kühler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.e-tec.at
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scored for 50€ bucks less~


Ouch, you mean scored for 50€ more, it should be 450 euro not 500 

Also got one in switzerland for 450 chf


----------



## tcclaviger

Congrats those who got them.

Is anyone actually seeing it sold out anywhere or supply seem plentiful?


----------



## domdtxdissar

Supply seem plentiful in Norway.. Biggest online retailer have 50+ in stock
Mine is already shipped


----------



## tcclaviger

ZealotKi11er said:


> View attachment 2557291


What cooling are you using? How are you finding it to cool vs other zen 3s? My configuration makes relating it to air/aio behavior difficult.


----------



## yzonker

tcclaviger said:


> Congrats those who got them.
> 
> Is anyone actually seeing it sold out anywhere or supply seem plentiful?


Stock held out quite a while. Newegg and Microcenter appear out now.


----------



## LazyGamer

tcclaviger said:


> Congrats those who got them.
> 
> Is anyone actually seeing it sold out anywhere or supply seem plentiful?


No problem at Newegg (US), and the local Dallas Microcenter also showed stock.



yzonker said:


> Stock held out quite a while. Newegg and Microcenter appear out now.


Just checked back, OOS at Newegg, and Microcenter has a few listed as in-store only (cannot reserve online).


----------



## EastCoast

These cpus are tastie!!


----------



## Veii

ZealotKi11er said:


> View attachment 2557291


Zentimings (voltages), WHEA event viewer ?
Helps else nobody, except for 🍆 measurement


xAD3r1ty said:


> Ouch, you mean scored for 50€ more, it should be 450 euro not 500
> 
> Also got one in switzerland for 450 chf


Usually USD MSRP == EUR price
We EU have 20% import VAT ~ soo they are lazy and just price match it & keep the rest for their own margin (which is usually low)

In Germany i saw it for 520€
499 is a good price to have it, although if MSRP is 449$ not 499$ then it's slightly overpaid ~ you're right

In Asia it retails atm for ¥65 300 == 510USD , Or in korea near 860 000 SKW == 550USD
Different world, different import tax than the US 
Depends from which Fab they deliver. As usually Taiwan to KR/JP is 5% VAT only

Can feel lucky, as EU usually barely to never get's stock, or very late 
(Taiwan batches take 60-70 days to arrive here)
This time we where allowed to buy it 2 days earlier ~ else release was 22nd at 11AM JST


----------



## MrHoof

Funny how pricing in germany went, released at 489€ got it 5 minutes after it was up. But 519€ 1h later


----------



## tcclaviger

MrHoof said:


> Funny how pricing in germany went, released at 489€ got it 5 minutes after it was up. But 519€ 1h later


I saw that on reddit. Unfortunate cash grab on a hot product 

Good to see sales went pretty quick. Not good in the sense that they're unavailable, but good in the sense that AMD got sent a message there is a strong desire for this niche of product.

Would love if anyone who can't hit 1900 WHEA free could mention it, seems like most are doing it.


----------



## Blameless

tcclaviger said:


> Congrats those who got them.
> 
> Is anyone actually seeing it sold out anywhere or supply seem plentiful?


I noticed that Newegg sold out within a few hours, but I grabbed one from Amazon.


----------



## OCmember

I'll post about 1900 IF soon on my chip. Hoping it will


----------



## OCmember

Well I'm only a minute into TM5 anta777 Extreme but I can already tell you that my 5800X (non 3D) couldn't even boot in PCB Revision 'Manual' timings as suggested by Ryzen Calculator @ 1900. It could do PCB Revision A2 but it would fail OCCT with WHEA errors. I'm really excited but I'm trying to contain myself, heh. If it passes TM5 I'll post the Zen Timings here, then off to test with OCCT to see if the IF is as strong as it's 'feels good' feels. And as soon I i get done typing that last sentence 1 TM5 error on test 5.. but no WHEA error... ok..

EDIT: increased the ClkDrvStr to 40 ohms (40, 20, 24, 24) and increased the VDIMM to 1.50v in bios (reads 1.51v in HWinfo) with a 1.087 VSOC & 43.6 ohm ProcODT, and I'm past the first anta777 Extreme cycle, 1900:3800 'Manual' PCB revision timings. An hour ago I booted up OCCT and it passed 5-10m so that's looking pretty good too. Will do a full test of OCCT after TM5

EDIT2: TM5 Stable. Will have to verify WHEA free with OCCT next.










EDIT3: WOW UE4 games feel soooo much better despite the lower frequency (UT4) ... ok in my own words, "that's ****in stupid fast"

EDIT4: OCCT Passed


----------



## EniGma1987

tcclaviger said:


> Congrats those who got them.
> 
> Is anyone actually seeing it sold out anywhere or supply seem plentiful?


Very plentiful. It just barely sold out on amd.com about 5 1/2 hours after it went live. Newegg and Microcenter are still in stock too.
Im not sure why some are seeing as out of stock. I checked this morning randomly and they were in stock everywhere, amd.com was in stock still an hour ago, then just checked again now and MC and NE are in stock. Maybe places are releasing some stock every hour or so and Im just getting lucky finding it in stock always? IDK. Still deciding if I should buy one or not.


----------



## MrHoof

Anyone know does the 5800x3d work with agesa 1.2.0.3c or do i have to go to 1.2.0.6b directly?
No other bios options available for my board.


----------



## OCmember

MrHoof said:


> Anyone know does the 5800x3d work with agesa 1.2.0.3c or do i have to go to 1.2.0.6b directly?
> No other bios options available for my board.


I asked about my particular gigabyte board and was told I had to update from 1.2.0.5 to 1.2.0 6. B


----------



## tcclaviger

Would suggest trying 1205 if you have USB flashback and you have the option for your board, there may be benefits to doing so.


----------



## OCmember

tcclaviger said:


> Would suggest trying 1205 if you have USB flashback and you have the option for your board, there may be benefits to doing so.


I was told "you'll get a black screen" when I asked if I could use 1.2.0.5 (F35) not sure how credible the source was but I updated to 1.2.0.6 B


----------



## tcclaviger

Sounds good, it's been in the code since 1205 if memory serves me correctly.

Will be finding earliest possible agesa for it to function correctly tomorrow since C8E has more AGESA revision bioses available than C6E.


----------



## Blameless

OCmember said:


> WOW UE4 games feel soooo much better despite the lower frequency (UT4) ... ok in my own words, "that's ****in stupid fast"


UE4 games are often disgustingly CPU/memory limited and I've been expecting significant improvements with them almost since I heard about the v-cache parts.



MrHoof said:


> Anyone know does the 5800x3d work with agesa 1.2.0.3c or do i have to go to 1.2.0.6b directly?
> No other bios options available for my board.


What board?



OCmember said:


> I asked about my particular gigabyte board and was told I had to update from 1.2.0.5 to 1.2.0 6. B


I intend to try 1.2.0.3c first.

Both of the boards I plan on testing with the CPU have microcode for the 5800X3D's CPUID with their most recent AGESA 1.2.0.3c firmware.


----------



## tcclaviger

The earlier the better at this point to see if what's available on pre1206 is different than what's available in 1206b/c as the OC lockdown notice came late. Likely the partners knew of it long ago but there's an outside chance things were left active on earlier versions that aren't now.

I got bored waiting on the C8E and started fooling with memory, still missing ram block...stupid mail...just a full speed GT AP-65 pointed on them for now.








Measured with fluke voltages from read points:
SOC 1.173
VDIMM 1.581
PLL 1.903


15-15-15-15-30-45 on test currently, so can't pull the Aida pic for the above (I run tm5 tests with network disabled) but it is:

60486 read 327xx write 58491 copy 54.9ns

Efficiency is not great vs "X" Zen 3, and you'll all see the latency is worse than a 5800x with equal settings when you test your X3Ds. Expected due to latency penalty of V-cache. I'm quite happy I made it under 55 stable and north of 60k.


----------



## yzonker

Tracking says Friday for me. Hopefully I can contribute something.

BTW, for the game benchmarks you guys have been posting, do you just reset to defaults and then switch to the lowest preset? Or set absolutely everything to the lowest setting?


----------



## DADDYDC650

Got a Gigabyte x370 K7 with a 1.2.0 6 B bios. No idea if it can run the 5800x3D which arrives tomorrow. Anyone?

Found this online, "AMD says that motherboards will need a BIOS update to see and use the extra 64MB of cache—look for AGESA version 1.2.0.6b or higher in the release notes."

Nvm, should be good to go.


----------



## TrigrH

DADDYDC650 said:


> Got a Gigabyte x370 K7 with a 1.2.0 6 B bios. No idea if it can run the 5800x3D which arrives tomorrow. Anyone?
> 
> Found this online, "AMD says that motherboards will need a BIOS update to see and use the extra 64MB of cache—look for AGESA version 1.2.0.6b or higher in the release notes." Hope it works...


Its listed right here dude...








GA-AX370-Gaming K7 (rev. 1.0) Support | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global


Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...




www.gigabyte.com


----------



## tcclaviger

yzonker said:


> Tracking says Friday for me. Hopefully I can contribute something.
> 
> BTW, for the game benchmarks you guys have been posting, do you just reset to defaults and then switch to the lowest preset? Or set absolutely everything to the lowest setting?


Personally I use presets for testing. It makes it easier to compare against in the future if I want to revisit and check against results with various settings. It also let's other people verify results.

I can't count the number of times I've used my own posts to check against for progress or regression when tuning a system, which is why I rarely post max effort results, except on Hwbot.


----------



## yzonker

tcclaviger said:


> Personally I use presets for testing. It makes it easier to compare against in the future if I want to revisit and check against results with various settings. It also let's other people verify results.
> 
> I can't count the number of times I've used my own posts to check against for progress or regression when tuning a system, which is why I rarely post max effort results, except on Hwbot.


Yea that makes the most sense to me also. We'll see how my silicone luck runs. It will be going in my loop with an integrated chiller so I can easily stay under the 65C threshold you mentioned.


----------



## xAD3r1ty

Guys what chipset/power plan are u using for the 5800x3d?


----------



## tcclaviger

I run High Performance. I tried a few: Balanced, Ryzen Balanced, Ryzen High Performance... no meaningful difference between the 4 plans.


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D Breaks The 5 GHz Barrier, Overclocked To 5.15 GHz on MSI's MEG X570 GODLIKE Motherboard


AMD's Ryzen 7 5800X3D has breached the 5 GHz barrier with an impressive 5.15 GHz overclock on MSI's MEG X570 GODLIKE motherboard.




wccftech.com





it kinda says there that there is a special overclocking BIOS in wraps for Overclocking for all AIB Partner boards, but off course, this voids the warranty (we all do know that)


----------



## tcclaviger

GB and MSI both have 5ghz + evidence in the wild, and I have booted 110x45.5 for 5005mhz, but didn't want to give it the required voltage for enough stability to get a validation.

All the 5ghz+ scenarios I'm aware of so far, are high bclk only.

////

I see people are getting them in hand, 3dmark results are starting to populate.


----------



## Nighthog

Made a order for the 5800X3D should arrive tomorrow if all goes well with the delivery date.

A little pricey though, 100€ more and you could buy a 5950X these days instead.


----------



## Blameless

Looked at some more firmware with MCE. It does appear that the original rumor of everything most post AGESA v2 1.2.0.0 firmware having support for the 5800X3D is true. Microcode for CPUID 00A20F12 dates back to April 8th, 2021 (version 0A01204) and this is in all the AGESA 1.2.0.0 through 1.2.0.3c firmware I've looked at. There is also newer (0A01205) version dated July 19th, 2021 that shows up in firmware using later AGESA versions (1.2.0.5 at least...haven't checked the 1.2.0.4 versions).

Haven't got my chip yet, so I have no idea if the newer microcode is needed to utilize the extra cache, if that would be tied to the AGESA version itself, or if the claim is entirely fallacious. I suspect the latter as there seems little reason to support a CPUID while disabling a chunk of the L3, and deliberately disabling it would seem to be more likely to be required than enabling it, as any true cache is transparent to everything else...in the case of an exclusive cache like this, anything evicted from the L2 should automatically go to the L3 and any memory access should automatically check the L3 before main memory...with no firmware or software support required.

Anyway, I'll find out for sure soon enough, but even if the old microcode and AGESA version fully support the CPU, I'm still doubtful any meaningful OCing capabilities would be unlocked. I do hope that firmware released before AMD's directives to lock everything down at least allows a fixed all-core OC with the 45 or 45.5x multiplier, but even that may well be optimistic.

_Edit:_ I've also extracted the newer 0A01205 microcode to patch into older firmware, to see if that will resolve any issues I may encounter when using old firmware. Both versions are attached to this post, in case anyone wants to take a look at them. Remove the .txt, it's only there cause the forum wouldn't allow me to attach .bin.


----------



## 83leoghera

Got my 5800x3d and running on gigabyte x570s aorus elite AX with lian li galahad 240mm aio corsair vengeance rgb RT 3600 cl 16 ram. Its pushing 90 degrees in prime95 small ffts and in cyberpunk 1440p RT on DLSS quality everything maxed out its hitting 74 degrees is there a way to get it to operate at least in the low 70's in prime95 and around low 60's in gaming? Like at this point I'm even open to trying out custom water.


----------



## matique

83leoghera said:


> Got my 5800x3d and running on gigabyte x570s aorus elite AX with lian li galahad 240mm aio corsair vengeance rgb RT 3600 cl 16 ram. Its pushing 90 degrees in prime95 small ffts and in cyberpunk 1440p RT on DLSS quality everything maxed out its hitting 74 degrees is there a way to get it to operate at least in the low 70's in prime95 and around low 60's in gaming? Like at this point I'm even open to trying out custom water.


Since you can only play with bclk the option would be to cool the chip better.

-Check your mount to see if paste spread is even and has good pressure.
-you could try debauer offset tool to offset the cooler to cool the offset die better.
-custom cooling would allow for better temps definitely.


----------



## ilmazzo

Subbed.

Well, lot of very good info here. Congrats to everyone!

End of the month I'll pull the trigger and get this little unconventional cpu beast.

Was checking x470 taichi support page and see that the last bios released was in May 2021 and reference a generic "1.2.0.0" agesa version.... what should I expect regarding 5800X3D support? Is there a way to "read" directly in the bin file which agesa version has in it?

I have a 2600X on it right now (4,35ghz all core oc with a 3200 cl14 fast timings, I wanna blow out of the water my samsung 3200 bdie kit that is really annoyed of the weak IMC of the 2600X) so I just need to flash the right bios before disassemble the fullcover on the taichi, install the X3D, apply LM, and mount again the fullcover.


----------



## OCmember

tcclaviger said:


> 60486 read 327xx write 58491 copy 54.9ns
> 
> Efficiency is not great vs "X" Zen 3, and you'll all see the latency is worse than a 5800x with equal settings when you test your X3Ds. Expected due to latency penalty of V-cache. I'm quite happy I made it under 55 stable and north of 60k.


What Memory latency test are you running? My 30d trial for AIDA64 is over so I haven't used it since then however with Ryzen Calculator the memory latency checker seems to be in line with AIDA64 from what I remember. My Memory latency was 52.8ns with my 3D. I didn't screen shoot it last night but I could run it again today and update this post. For reference these were the timings.


----------



## LtMatt

tcclaviger said:


> To satisfy your curiosity I did a thing real quick just to verify, slow but steady ticking WHEA. A lot less than I have on my 5950x at these speeds.
> Lossy Goosy timings, but just wanted to ensure I didn't have to fight ram for an hour over 1 stupid setting being off by 2 or something. 1.565 vdimm set, 1.54 on DMM.
> 
> Also... So much for T-topology not being able to hit 4000, a claim I've seen numerous times, clearly incorrect.
> View attachment 2557271
> View attachment 2557272
> 
> View attachment 2557270


Managed to beat you, just, with the following settings. Passed 400% RAM Test without a WHEA so far. Think I can probably improve on the timings a little. Not tried BCLK yet. Need to reinstall the OS next too.


----------



## Blameless

ilmazzo said:


> Was checking x470 taichi support page and see that the last bios released was in May 2021 and reference a generic "1.2.0.0" agesa version.... what should I expect regarding 5800X3D support? Is there a way to "read" directly in the bin file which agesa version has in it?








ASRock > X470 Taichi


Supports AMD AM4 Socket Ryzen™ 2000, 3000, 4000 G-Series, 5000 and 5000 G-Series Desktop Processors; Supports DDR4 3466+ (OC); 2 PCIe 3.0 x16, 1 PCIe 2.0 x16, 2 PCIe 2.0 x1; NVIDIA Quad SLI™, AMD Quad CrossFireX™; 7.1 CH HD Audio (Realtek ALC1220 Audio Codec), Supports Purity Sound™ 4 & DTS...




www.asrock.com









X470 Taichi


Asus ROG RAMPAGE VI EXTREME Bios & Drivers




station-drivers.com





ASRock's listing is usually accurate. Latest non-beta (4.70) should have AGESA ComboAM4v2 1.2.0.0. However, I just opened it up and it's missing the microcode for the 5800X3D's CPUID. It's probably a bit too old for that microcode. So, this firmware revision that you're currently on may not even post with a 5800X3D and if it does, probably won't work correctly.

The latest beta (4.88) on ASRocks site also has the latest 5800X3D microcode and is almost certainly what they expect you to use for the part.

The 4.75 beta that ASRock no longer links to, but which is still on Station Drivers, has AGESA 1.2.0.3c and the initial 5800X3D firmware, so _might_ work.


----------



## bloot

Is there a way to reduce voltage on these chips?


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

bloot said:


> Is there a way to reduce voltage on these chips?


without CO, you'll have to probably use the Core voltage offsets


----------



## EniGma1987

tcclaviger said:


> GB and MSI both have 5ghz + evidence in the wild, and I have booted 110x45.5 for 5005mhz, but didn't want to give it the required voltage for enough stability to get a validation.
> 
> All the 5ghz+ scenarios I'm aware of so far, are high bclk only.


Anything special you are doing to get usb, sata, and pcie to be stable when running higher bclk? Or are they just handling it fine?


----------



## Monsicek

Any of lucky owners had chance to run Escape from Tarkov on 5800X3D and how it stacks against previously owned CPU?


----------



## Veii

OCmember said:


> I'll post about 1900 IF soon on my chip. Hoping it will
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2557314











Sadly no SUS sample :/


Blameless said:


> Both versions are attached to this post, in case anyone wants to take a look at them.











[Übersicht] - Ultimative AM4 UEFI/BIOS/AGESA Übersicht (hard translatable)


----------



## Blameless

Veii said:


> Sadly no SUS sample :/


Is the SUS batch supposed to be better than PGS for the 5800X3D?



Veii said:


> [Übersicht] - Ultimative AM4 UEFI/BIOS/AGESA Übersicht (hard translatable)


This is interesting.

That big block of disabled stuff in the newer microcode that is seemingly in every bios that officially claims 5800X3D support makes me wonder if the old microcode might be less locked down somehow...


----------



## nikoli707

I was able to get my order in early on 420. Im going to go back to all air cooling, specifically the Noctua C14S since its the best i can do in my Ncase M1. Should be fine with the x3d. It will be on my Asrock B550i. Hopefully we can find clever ways to squeeze a tiny bit more performance out of it.


----------



## MrHoof

Mine is 2207PGS gonna give it a try in a sec with 1.2.0.3c. Mine will be cooled by a U12A curious how the temps will look like.

edit: Booted just fine on 1.2.0.3c , gonna eat sth an then get some testing done.
L3 cache seems to be atleast dectected correctly









edit2 :I guess i found the eco mode. Does not boost at all :< but hey 48°C running r23


----------



## 83leoghera

matique said:


> Since you can only play with bclk the option would be to cool the chip better.
> 
> -Check your mount to see if paste spread is even and has good pressure.
> -you could try debauer offset tool to offset the cooler to cool the offset die better.
> -custom cooling would allow for better temps definitely.


I haven't played with anything in Bios other than activating XMP. I remounted 3 times just to be sure I got the right spread and its mounted properly. There is nothing I can do it seems with current hardware to change the Temps other than at some point being able to underclock/volt. What I'd like to know is anyone that has an AIO or Air cooler that seems to keep this hot chip under control please let me know what you're running. On my lancool 2 mesh and lian li galahad 240mm its hitting 90 degrees instantly in prime95 and staying there the good thing is its not throttling at all and staying stable at 130w and 4.1-4.15MHz for the full 30 mins I tested. Based on current reviews of the most popular AIO's in the market I doubt the 5 degree difference between the top AIO will tame this beast. Which is why if someone is running an AIO that's keeping this thing under control I'd like to know what setup you got and hopefully tame this beast of a CPU.


----------



## xAD3r1ty

Guys i need some help, either my 5800x3D is faulty or something is bugged in the bios, i used my flare X at 3600mhz on my older 3800x at 1.41v , But i can't increase the dram speed at all in the 5800x3d , it only boots at 3200mhz or it goes to error 07 and doesn't boot, even increasing to 3266mhz makes it not boot, applying voltage works fine, increasing FCLK to 1800 works fine, as soon as i touch the memory speed it doesn't boot, did this happen to anyone? the memory is flare X (b-die) 

mobo is crosshair vi hero running latest 8503 bios


----------



## Blameless

xAD3r1ty said:


> Guys i need some help, either my 5800x3D is faulty or something is bugged in the bios, i used my flare X at 3600mhz on my older 3800x at 1.41v , But i can't increase the dram speed at all in the 5800x3d , it only boots at 3200mhz or it goes to error 07 and doesn't boot, even increasing to 3266mhz makes it not boot, applying voltage works fine, increasing FCLK to 1800 works fine, as soon as i touch the memory speed it doesn't boot, did this happen to anyone? the memory is flare X (b-die)
> 
> mobo is crosshair vi hero running latest 8503 bios


Have you cleared the bios settings and started from scratch?


----------



## tcclaviger

EniGma1987 said:


> Anything special you are doing to get usb, sata, and pcie to be stable when running higher bclk? Or are they just handling it fine?


I've only observed USB drop out 1 time, when using 2v for 1.8 PLL, it didn't like it. Backed it down to 1.975, all good.

I dont SATA, only. M.2.


----------



## tcclaviger

83leoghera said:


> I haven't played with anything in Bios other than activating XMP. I remounted 3 times just to be sure I got the right spread and its mounted properly. There is nothing I can do it seems with current hardware to change the Temps other than at some point being able to underclock/volt. What I'd like to know is anyone that has an AIO or Air cooler that seems to keep this hot chip under control please let me know what you're running. On my lancool 2 mesh and lian li galahad 240mm its hitting 90 degrees instantly in prime95 and staying there the good thing is its not throttling at all and staying stable at 130w and 4.1-4.15MHz for the full 30 mins I tested. Based on current reviews of the most popular AIO's in the market I doubt the 5 degree difference between the top AIO will tame this beast. Which is why if someone is running an AIO that's keeping this thing under control I'd like to know what setup you got and hopefully tame this beast of a CPU.


This is what I expected would happen with air and AIOs. Not much you can do to tame it other than CO using PBO2 Tuner. It will clock stretch long before it crashes so checking performance of CO is necessary even if it doesn't crash.

Forgot to mention anywhere, my CPU is 2208PGS.


----------



## xAD3r1ty

Blameless said:


> Have you cleared the bios settings and started from scratch?


yes, multiple times, i don't know what else to do, the cpu is working so well, but i just can't move the DRAM speed at all, it was working fine on the 3800x, unless this is bios bug in the crosshair vi hero, i'm really bummed right now


----------



## MrHoof

Did u reinstall the RAM aswell and maybe placed them in A1 B1 instead of A2 B2?


----------



## xAD3r1ty

MrHoof said:


> Did u reinstall the RAM aswell and maybe placed them in A1 B1 instead of A2 B2?


Will try that , but why would It matter for ram speed if it was fine with a 3800x before? Will say something as soon as I try, thanks


----------



## Veii

We'll have something for it, i generally hold my promises
only delay things on unfortunate events or complications @MrHoof

So far situation looks like that it is softlock disabled, with different IDs
Same as was done with Cezanne who had:








for CPU and GPU
But only up to 175 was mapped then 200-500 missmatched the ID, as it was for Vermeer only

I'm not sure if i want to mount it yet and toy with it. Still miss a board & mounting now deforms the IHS ~ for the block 
(might not matter when i put LM on it, but i wonder)
Can't decide between X570S Unify-X MAX and X570 C8Formula ~ for the same price 
There are no used unify's , but MSI made everything easier. ASUS only lay'd the foundation for advance mem-timing options and split BCLK

Anywho,
What we can do right now, is enforce settings that do not exist in bios
But the work that was done to remove options we need , does indeed hurt and set back.
RSMU refuses to allow overclocking as in hierarchy it is denied ~ but the options are there and functional, just denied
Things set at 4.550 strap and FUSE of 1.35v ~ is fixed.

At best, lower AGESA & microcode allow to move FIT in 1.35v and not 1.3v
But that still would need fantastic samples to hold 5ghz on that "kinda low voltage"
My average unit needed 1.375v

Soo what we have to count for, is free multiplier
But if disabled on CPU_MSR level , no rather on CPU RevisionID level ~ then we can not get this back // usually AMD makes the unit dumb, but doesn't disable functionality, only results in no boost at all as it doesn't know what to do
AMD could allow back in 1.2.0.7 AGESA PBO OC , and enforce a 90° procHot limit - aside 90° THM limit
That should keep cores throttling or not throttling, up to users exotic cooling // yet still barely do anything, as we're 1.35v Fab limited

But usually the curve alone, is not suited for that ~ soo CO change after 1.2.0.0 won't help to hit such low voltage request levels
The only best thing we can hope, is either that AMD forgot to lock first batch (which we do have) ~ as it was usually unlocked
Or fully forget PB exists , and work with Project Hydra from now on.

That all is,
After somebody 😁 get's back the options that where erased, by hand ~ back, soo RSMU commands can have back full access
Sadly,
I don't think it is possible for any board with new bios to "magically unlock" a feature that was fully wiped ~ without bios mods

We need to try replacing and enforcing B2 microcode to be only loaded on 1.1.0.0D - 1.1.8X // instead of B0 ~ system is dynamic , it should load it if replaced
Hence changed signature on 1.2.0.0 onwards will refuse this change
And i know that 1.1.0.0D and 1.1.8.X has full CO range & functionality for anything Vermeer & Cezanne (which modders need to adjust ~ target ID to make CO work on it)
Then you should be able to surpass current locks, but then again will likely suffer from Realtek NIC issues and unstable PCH link & and be a possible target for Spectre.V5 or PCI MUTEX code injection attacks
* look now AMD pulling all 1100D & pre 1200 bioses // i expect them to, with how fast RyzenMaster release and thought change came

We will see~
Tool is not ready yet, for settings enforcement ~ it's complicated
But we won't get much far without lifting this SMU softlock
Which means a toggle for it has to be re'created, and bios mods have to happen
Then, have to see if multiplier functionality is fully erased on CPU_MSR level or first batch is not patched away // 2nd batch is guaranteed patched away
PBO will work, but is half-useless with a 1.35v enforced by-fab substrate limit ~ which is also pretty impossible to override, else people could unlock back their dual CCD units

EDIT:
I only wonder if this toggle has to be lifted on 1206 AGESA and not older,
As older AGESA might not even recognize the function  
Bit unsure, usually you had OC disable toggles ~ but they where not behaving like this here, one that suppresses commands


----------



## MrHoof

Well got excited for sec but dissapointed. CPU Core Ratio is available but not applied in windows 









edit: Why tho is it showing 3500mhz in bios but not in Windows??
Think i gonna try 1.2.0.6b my cooling isnt suited for decent OC anway.


----------



## xAD3r1ty

MrHoof said:


> Did u reinstall the RAM aswell and maybe placed them in A1 B1 instead of A2 B2?


Just tried, same thing... Wow, could my 5800x3d be a dud? Seems impossible, has to be the bios or something, so unlucky


----------



## 83leoghera

tcclaviger said:


> This is what I expected would happen with air and AIOs. Not much you can do to tame it other than CO using PBO2 Tuner. It will clock stretch long before it crashes so checking performance of CO is necessary even if it doesn't crash.
> 
> Forgot to mention anywhere, my CPU is 2208PGS.


Can't use CO on this chip right? Where do you see what CPU you have? Do you think custom water will bring down the temps by much? Since its hitting 90 degrees instantly and staying there?


----------



## tcclaviger

CO works via this software linked on the first page, the second tab only allows you to limit the max boost frequency but the curve optimizer tab works just fine.

You can lower the PBO limits with it, that might help you find a better temperature balance.



xAD3r1ty said:


> Just tried, same thing... Wow, could my 5800x3d be a dud? Seems impossible, has to be the bios or something, so unlucky


You could try a reflashing, one stick, and if you have any other ddr4 give that a shot, sometimes parts really don't play nicely together. Also try inputting manual voltages for CLDO .925, CCD .975, IOD 1.03, SOC 1.08, PLL 1.85, vdimm at rating.

Those voltages are entirely safe, and they've worked with every single Zen 2 and 3 that I've worked with to at least 3733.

It could also be resistances setups or the other settings for dram, so I would try fiddling with those, sometimes the bios auto values are not configured to work properly with your specific Hardware and that specific CPU. I fought this with my 3600xt as well.


----------



## LazyGamer

I'm wondering if 90c is a "bad" thing - we know the cache is going to work as an insulator of sorts, so our expectations may be unrealistic.

Either way, I have an ancient H115i to try first with four Arctic 140mm fans (push / pull) on the bench, eventually moving to just two fans in an ITX case.


----------



## JSHamlet234

83leoghera said:


> Can't use CO on this chip right? Where do you see what CPU you have? Do you think custom water will bring down the temps by much? Since its hitting 90 degrees instantly and staying there?


Custom water will help a little, but it's not going to be a game changer. Direct Die on the other hand, would be very interesting.


----------



## MrHoof

tcclaviger said:


> CO works via this software linked on the first page, the second tab only allows you to limit the max boost frequency but the curve optimizer tab works just fine.
> 
> You can lower the PBO limits with it, that might help you find a better temperature balance.


Good hint so the PBO tuner can limit the Frequency to 3.3 but not increase it to 3.5. Think something is just broken with 1.2.0.3c and it just refuses to go over 3400mhz.
But the Cpu Ratio in bios atleast gets it to 3500mhz (did not test how high it goes) so maybe a chipset driver thing?


----------



## xAD3r1ty

tcclaviger said:


> CO works via this software linked on the first page, the second tab only allows you to limit the max boost frequency but the curve optimizer tab works just fine.
> 
> You can lower the PBO limits with it, that might help you find a better temperature balance.
> 
> 
> 
> You could try a reflashing, one stick, and if you have any other ddr4 give that a shot, sometimes parts really don't play nicely together. Also try inputting manual voltages for CLDO .925, CCD .975, IOD 1.03, SOC 1.08, PLL 1.85, vdimm at rating.


Thanks man, gonna try this, you don't have this problem right? i don't know anyone else with the regular crosshair vi hero that also have the 5800x3d to ask if they can get more than 3200mhz from ram (i know you have the extreme version so i guess bios differ)

btw these flare x never failed me, went from 1700x - 2700x - 3800x - to now 5800x3d


----------



## 83leoghera

LazyGamer said:


> I'm wondering if 90c is a "bad" thing - we know the cache is going to work as an insulator of sorts, so our expectations may be unrealistic.
> 
> Either way, I have an ancient H115i to try first with four Arctic 140mm fans (push / pull) on the bench, eventually moving to just two fans in an ITX case.


Maybe not a bad thing but its scary seeing it run at 90 degrees for the entire time. Funny thing is the air coming out of my radfans are not remotely as hot as HWinfo is indicating. Its only mildly warmer than ambient. So I'm confused as to why its so high in HWinfo but not throttling and its holding its speed and wattage.


----------



## 83leoghera

JSHamlet234 said:


> Custom water will help a little, but it's not going to be a game changer. Direct Die on the other hand, would be very interesting.


yeah, I'm not that much of an expert at these things to even attempt that in the near future.


----------



## 83leoghera

LazyGamer said:


> I'm wondering if 90c is a "bad" thing - we know the cache is going to work as an insulator of sorts, so our expectations may be unrealistic.
> 
> Either way, I have an ancient H115i to try first with four Arctic 140mm fans (push / pull) on the bench, eventually moving to just two fans in an ITX case.


let me know if your temps in prime95 are as high as mine.. hehe


----------



## Blameless

Mine just got here. It's a 2209PGS.


----------



## Veii

MrHoof said:


> edit: Why tho is it showing 3500mhz in bios but not in Windows??











Some bioses default to funny stupid non realistic values on CMOS reset 
Try something from here





ASUS Tools - Google Drive







drive.google.com




3 tools could work, tool 1007, tool for C8H , and even turboV has multiplier access


----------



## xAD3r1ty

tcclaviger said:


> CO works via this software linked on the first page, the second tab only allows you to limit the max boost frequency but the curve optimizer tab works just fine.
> 
> You can lower the PBO limits with it, that might help you find a better temperature balance.
> 
> 
> 
> You could try a reflashing, one stick, and if you have any other ddr4 give that a shot, sometimes parts really don't play nicely together. Also try inputting manual voltages for CLDO .925, CCD .975, IOD 1.03, SOC 1.08, PLL 1.85, vdimm at rating.
> 
> Those voltages are entirely safe, and they've worked with every single Zen 2 and 3 that I've worked with to at least 3733.
> 
> It could also be resistances setups or the other settings for dram, so I would try fiddling with those, sometimes the bios auto values are not configured to work properly with your specific Hardware and that specific CPU. I fought this with my 3600xt as well.


No luck with your settings , still 07 code as soon as I try to raise ram speeds


----------



## MrHoof

@Veii Already updated to 1.2.0.6b now its boosting normaly. But can say I cant even cool that thing at stock good enough  CB23 runs all core at 4.4ghz dropping to 4.375ghz ~80°C.
Atleast seems like I can do still 1T no setup timings next to check max fclk.


----------



## Veii

MrHoof said:


> But can say I cant even cool that thing at stock good enough


Needed to use interposer, is sub-optimal
Maybe it indeed was better to be released at the same time as Zen4
And refine their undervolting a bit further with new AGESA's

Edit:
Releasing a fast car with not heat resilient tires


----------



## OCmember

Is it safe to Disable Idle in Power settings?


----------



## tcclaviger

I would add, my 2x16 gskill dimms did not play as well as 4x8 not sure if your board is t topo or RAM specifics but I got 07 qcode trung 2x16 with settings that I know worked on other CPUs in the same board with the same ram.


----------



## JSHamlet234

OCmember said:


> Is it safe to Disable Idle in Power settings?


I've never tried it on Ryzen, but on Intel systems it disables the C1 state. Power consumption at idle becomes amusingly high.


----------



## MrHoof

Well to be fair my 5800x temps in short benches like Cinebench were similar but clocks were around 4.75-4.8ghz all core.
Also the 5800x (exelent IMC 1.05 soc for 1900fclk) had for sure a better IMC tWTRS 3 on this 5800x3d is a no go, does not get past memory training.
Overall having some memory training issues so far but once it gets through seems to be doing fine procODT 28.2 might be to low for this one.
As always over 1900fclk might be possible but needs tuning to be WHEA free.
1.55v















edit: only changed tRCDWR and RTTs still in testing process.


----------



## LtMatt

MrHoof said:


> Well to be fair my 5800x temps in short benches like Cinebench were similar but clocks were around 4.75-4.8ghz all core.
> Also the 5800x (exelent IMC 1.05 soc for 1900fclk) had for sure a better IMC tWTRS 3 on this 5800x3d is a no go, does not get past memory training.
> Overall having some memory training issues so far but once it gets through seems to be doing fine procODT 28.2 might be to low for this one.
> As always over 1900fclk might be possible but needs tuning to be WHEA free.
> 1.55v
> View attachment 2557442


Can you post an aida64 please?

Sorry just realised you included one ☝


----------



## Clukos

Not bad for 4x8 SR, much better than my 5800X


----------



## LtMatt

If anyone has any suggestions on how to improve my latency please let me know. CL14 is a no go. 
Not sure why TCKE is at 16 I’m using Auto.


----------



## Clukos

Looks like 4000CL16 works fine too 










Definitely much better than the 5800X I had.


----------



## Blameless

As expecting, I'm seeing the same lack of boost issue that others are seeing with 1.2.0.3c. Manual core clock adjustments were also a no go, though manual vcore, both fixed and offset, seemed to work. Going to try updating to the newer microcode while retaining 1.2.0.3c to see if that changes anything.

On this sample 1900 FCLK works fine so far. 1933 FCLK will boot without errors after bumping SoC and DDG voltages, but throws mountains of them once stressed. Won't know how good the memory controller is until I move it to my better board.


----------



## MrHoof

LtMatt said:


> Sorry just realised you included one ☝


I edited the post to include it 
Similiar to what tcclaviger results are or post 1. 

Steam version.


----------



## tcclaviger

C15 4000 GDM off CR2 is faster than C16 CR1 4000 for me.

Will post some screnies of memory play last night. I ended up tuning everything but trfc and dipped in the 54x (remember 53, looking back, was 54.2 minimum)ns latency range.

Memory latency generally seems to be 5800x latencies + ~4ns for equivalent settings.

1966 @ 102.5 bclk C15 which works out to 2015fclk:4031mts out performs all other configurations. 32ns latency in Passmark PT10, and 371average in 1080p lowest SotTR retail.

Going to higher straps produces faster Aida tests, but all games seem to prefer the 1966 strap.

There's also a bug on 1900 strap. Set 102.5 @ 1900 strap, F7 qcode. 102.5 boots at 1866 and then all the way up to 2133 strap. The 1900 strap is the most temperamental.

This is pretty performant and totally stable, 25 rounds 1usmus v3 passed:


----------



## tcclaviger

This also did good work, trfc untuned, just at safe value. I've bumped the config to 102.5 for nice round 2050/4100 numbers now lol:


----------



## Veii

tcclaviger said:


> This also did good work, trfc untuned, just at safe value. I've bumped the config to 102.5 for nice round 2050/4100 numbers now lol:
> View attachment 2557469
> View attachment 2557470


Nice SMU and nice memory score 
Benching on Win11 , or is near 12ns L3 common now by slow core-freq ?


----------



## tcclaviger

LOL Didn't notice the SMU haha.

The L3 scores suck on X3D, they're just worse than X chips. I have no explanation other than CPU clock speed hurts it. Oh and for those who don't look in the comp thread here, remember, still PCIE 3.0 8x....










Tested my 5950x on it's daily setup, fairly equivalent tune to the above X3D setup, as in I have no qualms about running it 24/7 and got 320 average. Sure I could push the 5950 for higher, but talking pure safe voltages and daily stable setups, I think 50 fps is a fairly healthy improvment.


----------



## tcclaviger

Just ran a L3 latency test on 5950x capped at 4550, 12.2 ns. So 12.x seems correct for X3D.


....C8E has landed  Let the games begin...


----------



## bloot

Chip is a bit on the hot side but performance is really wild


----------



## tcclaviger

bloot said:


> Chip is a bit on the hot side but performance is really wild


Yay someone who doesn't have my pcie issues ran SotTR  Nice.

Newegg still at it, sending out RMA returns as open box same as Gamers Nexus experience. Thankfully it's a replacement RMA not repair like GNs, came with all accessories and brand new board:


----------



## OCmember

I think the reason for the higher L3 latency and RAM latency is from the L3 having a +~3 cycles more than what an X has, correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## tcclaviger

OCmember said:


> I think the reason for the higher L3 latency and RAM latency is from the L3 having a +~3 cycles more than what an X has, correct me if I am wrong.


Makes sense. Clearly it doesn't have a net negative impact on gaming ...lol.


----------



## DADDYDC650

Someone over at Reddit claims that only 32mb of cache will be used if you’re not on BIOS 1.2.0.6 or higher. Any truth to this?


----------



## Blameless

OCmember said:


> I think the reason for the higher L3 latency and RAM latency is from the L3 having a +~3 cycles more than what an X has, correct me if I am wrong.


Probably closer to five cycles, but yes, this is why performance of the L3 will be about 10% worse at the same clock speed. There was an even bigger hit going from Zen 2 to Zen 3, when they added 7-8 cycles, and switched over to a dual ring-bus rather than directly connected cache.



tcclaviger said:


> Makes sense. Clearly it doesn't have a net negative impact on gaming ...lol.


I wouldn't be surprised if there were some outliers where it hurt, but in general having 300% as much cache thats 10% slower is a good trade, because anything that doesn't fit in the L3 isn't a measly five cycles further away, it's ~120 cycles further away.



DADDYDC650 said:


> Someone over at Reddit claims that only 32mb of cache will be used if you’re not on BIOS 1.2.0.6 or higher. Any truth to this?


This does not appear to be the case.

Earlier AGESA/microcode isn't allowing boost to work, but the L3 cache seems to be present and functional.


----------



## Blameless

Also, the actual "CPU High Temperature Clock Limit" on these parts seems to be 4.3GHz at 85C or above, and I don't think my setup is ever going be able to hold below 85C at maximum load.


----------



## BHS1975

Got mine to boot at 1866 fclk as 1900 wont post and any over that will post but with whea.


----------



## Taraquin

sumitlian said:


> Exactly! I mean people don't seem to learn from the history. When Crysis 3 first came out, the SB-E 6c/12t CPUs were at the top in performance. Everybody was like (Including me as well), "whoa looks like the era of 6 core gaming arrived", BF3 performance was better and then around two years something later the 4th gen 4790k beat all of them and this was a quad core CPU. Then comes the era for relatively affordable HW-E 6c/12t (i7-5820K etc something) and then a couple of years later i7-7700K beat all of them in games at least. Fast forward some more years and just when everyone thought the 4c/8 CPUs were a dead end for gaming, there comes the Ryzen 3 3300X and it beat all previous 6c+ CPUs in gaming (in most situations). But the thing to learn here is the duration of each generation high end 4c/8t CPU being the greatest value is progressively decreasing for gaming.
> That was the 4c story......
> 
> Now consoles have the 8c/16t CPUs. 5800X3D has by architecture more IPC than that. 5800X3D has more IPS that that. And with the 96 MB of L3 with 2 TB/s theoretical throughput, it appears to be the greatest CPU for gaming hands down. Let alone PC first games, take a look at all those console ports for PC that will be including extra runtime overhead (more frequent dynamic memory allocation/deallocation and possibly with bigger data blocks) and there will the large cache benefit the most. And this is why the 5800X3D is indeed for now the best gaming CPU in the world. And the benefits of having this CPU far outweighs the replacement cost, at least for old generation Ryzen based users who want the best gaming performance now at the moment.


It depends very much on the game. Techpowerup results at 720pSome games scales greatly with increased L3 cache, Far cry 5\6 and Borderlands 3 run far better on 5800X3D than on 12900K. On the other hand, games like Civ 6 and RDR2 don`t scale at all with larger L3 cache and a reulgar 5800X performs about the same meaning 12900K is significantly ahead.


----------



## Taraquin

BHS1975 said:


> Got mine to boot at 1866 fclk as 1900 wont post and any over that will post but with whea.


Try different VDDP voltage, sometimes memoryholes can occur due to wrong VDDP. Try anywhere from 0.8 to 1.0v.


----------



## Blameless

Patched the newer microcode into AGESA 1.2.0.3c firmware...no noticeable improvements to anything.

Going to see if patching the old 5800X3D microcode into the newest 1.2.0.6b/c firmware does something.


----------



## DADDYDC650

Blameless said:


> Probably closer to five cycles, but yes, this is why performance of the L3 will be about 10% worse at the same clock speed. There was an even bigger hit going from Zen 2 to Zen 3, when they added 7-8 cycles, and switched over to a dual ring-bus rather than directly connected cache.
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if there were some outliers where it hurt, but in general having 300% as much cache thats 10% slower is a good trade, because anything that doesn't fit in the L3 isn't a measly five cycles further away, it's ~120 cycles further away.
> 
> 
> 
> This does not appear to be the case.
> 
> Earlier AGESA/microcode isn't allowing boost to work, but the L3 cache seems to be present and functional.


So this proc would be stuck at 3.4Ghz if I were to pair it with my x370 K7 board that is stuck on 1.2.0.3 b BIOS?


----------



## Veii

Blameless said:


> Going to see if patching the old 5800X3D microcode into the newest 1.2.0.6b/c firmware does something.


Just keep in mind, 1206C is "apparantly" a hardlock
1206B has non (if vendors didn't lie about the version number) 
But defaulted to disabled OC mode ~ just a soft toggle

1206C appears to introduce a hardlock


----------



## Blameless

DADDYDC650 said:


> So this proc would be stuck at 3.4Ghz if I were to pair it with my x370 K7 board that is stuck on 1.2.0.3 b BIOS?


Yes.

There may very well be newer beta firmware available, so check for that first.



Veii said:


> Just keep in mind, 1206C is "apparantly" a hardlock
> 1206B has non (if vendors didn't lie about the version number)
> But defaulted to disabled OC mode ~ just a soft toggle
> 
> 1206C appears to introduce a hardlock


Does this hardlock permanently change something on the CPU itself?


----------



## DADDYDC650

Blameless said:


> Yes.
> 
> There may very well be newer beta firmware available, so check for that first.
> 
> 
> 
> Does this hardlock permanently change something on the CPU itself?


Nothing yet from Gigabyte. Stuck on 1.2.0.3 b. Horrible...


----------



## Blameless

DADDYDC650 said:


> Nothing yet from Gigabyte. Stuck on 1.2.0.3 b. Horrible...


What is exact board model?


----------



## tcclaviger

C8E is in, what a pleasure to work with compared to the C6E...

Part of it was going from the official bitspower monoblock for c6e to an optimus foundation + derbaur block adjustment mount. What a massive difference in temperatures lol.

There are gains, here's the first. The amazing thing is... this isn't a slow 3080ti, its holds 1st place on all the 5950x+3080ti 3dmark tests. It outruns most 3090tis...









And then I realized afterburner didn't apply the OC, a moment for real results lol.


----------



## DADDYDC650

Blameless said:


> What is exact board model?


Gigabyte x370 K7.


----------



## tcclaviger

Blameless said:


> Yes.
> 
> There may very well be newer beta firmware available, so check for that first.
> 
> 
> 
> Does this hardlock permanently change something on the CPU itself?


It can yes. Uprading past 1206b is a giant unknown at this point.

Anyone tested 1205 yet?


----------



## Blameless

DADDYDC650 said:


> Gigabyte x370 K7.


If you mean the GA-AX370-Gaming K7 there is the 51e beta firmware with AGESA 1.2.0.5. However, I haven't tested to see if boost works on that, yet.



tcclaviger said:


> It can yes. Uprading past 1206b is a giant unknown at this point.
> 
> Anyone tested 1205 yet?


I did flash to a 1.2.0.6c version to get a baseline.

Going to flash to 1.1.8.0 so I can erase my board with flashrom then test 1.2.0.5.


----------



## DADDYDC650

Blameless said:


> If you mean the GA-AX370-Gaming K7 there is the 51e beta firmware with AGESA 1.2.0.5. However, I haven't tested to see if boost works on that, yet.
> 
> 
> 
> I did flash to a 1.2.0.6c version to get a baseline.
> 
> Going to flash to 1.1.8.0 so I can erase my board with flashrom then test 1.2.0.5.


Pretty sure 51e was released before T51e and does not support Vermeer and Renoir processors. I forgot the reason in regards to the dates.


----------



## Blameless

DADDYDC650 said:


> Pretty sure 51e was released before T51e and does not support Vermeer and Renoir processors. I forgot the reason in regards to the dates.


Copypasta the microcode over one of the processors it does support.


----------



## DADDYDC650

Blameless said:


> Copypasta the microcode over one of the processors it does support.


 Honestly, no idea.


----------



## BHS1975

Taraquin said:


> Try different VDDP voltage, sometimes memoryholes can occur due to wrong VDDP. Try anywhere from 0.8 to 1.0v.


No dice. My 5600x does 1900 easy. I will just tighten up my ram at 3733 with 1866 fclk and may end up better anyways.


----------



## Blameless

DADDYDC650 said:


> Honestly, no idea.


I just opened up F51e and it's already got Vermeer and Vermeer-X microcodes anyway. If 1.2.0.5 allows boosting, that firmware should work, as is, with the 5800X3D.


----------



## BHS1975

What voltages and FCLK are you all running?


----------



## Nighthog

Got my 5800X3D.

*2209PGS* manufacture.

Only question is which system do I put it in? MSI X570 Unify-X or the AORUS X570 XTREME?
The Unify-X is setup as a bench so easier to swap out but I don't use it too much other than for testing small stuff with the Xtreme being the main system I use for gaming.

Dammit, the main system is too much of a hassle to rebuild so the Unify-X then...

EDIT: Good luck with FCLK 1900 worked on first try with AUTO settings only forcing 1900 & 1:1 ratio with my sample, worried I would get a dud there.


----------



## bloot

Anybody knows how this guy managed to undervolt it to 1V? The article explains nothing at all...

Wccftech Reader Tunes His AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D Into a Efficiency Monster With Undervolting: Same Performance at 1V, 57W Peak Power at Sub-1V


----------



## Blameless

So I'm messing around with old-ass AGESA 1.1.0.0 where I pasted the 5800X3D microcode over the 5800X microcode and I've noticed something odd...

This firmware allows the +500MHz auto OC offset, and my 5800X3D is definitely boosting to 3.9GHz (base + the auto OC) on it. Anyone know of a way to increase the max auto OC offset further?



bloot said:


> Anybody knows how this guy managed to undervolt it to 1V? The article explains nothing at all...
> 
> Wccftech Reader Tunes His AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D Into a Efficiency Monster With Undervolting: Same Performance at 1V, 57W Peak Power at Sub-1V


Manual voltage has been working for me on several firmware revisions.


----------



## bloot

Blameless said:


> So I'm messing around with old-ass AGESA 1.1.0.0 where I pasted the 5800X3D microcode over the 5800X microcode and I've noticed something odd...
> 
> This firmware allows the +500MHz auto OC offset, and my 5800X3D is definitely boosting to 3.9GHz (base + the auto OC) on it. Anyone know of a way to increase the max auto OC offset further?
> 
> 
> 
> Manual voltage has been working for me on several firmware revisions.


Interesting, I'm on the latest bios for my motherboard with agesa 1.2.0.6c and I have no voltage control for the cpu. Will try earlier beta bioses.


----------



## ilmazzo

Blameless said:


> ASRock > X470 Taichi
> 
> 
> Supports AMD AM4 Socket Ryzen™ 2000, 3000, 4000 G-Series, 5000 and 5000 G-Series Desktop Processors; Supports DDR4 3466+ (OC); 2 PCIe 3.0 x16, 1 PCIe 2.0 x16, 2 PCIe 2.0 x1; NVIDIA Quad SLI™, AMD Quad CrossFireX™; 7.1 CH HD Audio (Realtek ALC1220 Audio Codec), Supports Purity Sound™ 4 & DTS...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.asrock.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> X470 Taichi
> 
> 
> Asus ROG RAMPAGE VI EXTREME Bios & Drivers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> station-drivers.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASRock's listing is usually accurate. Latest non-beta (4.70) should have AGESA ComboAM4v2 1.2.0.0. However, I just opened it up and it's missing the microcode for the 5800X3D's CPUID. It's probably a bit too old for that microcode. So, this firmware revision that you're currently on may not even post with a 5800X3D and if it does, probably won't work correctly.
> 
> The latest beta (4.88) on ASRocks site also has the latest 5800X3D microcode and is almost certainly what they expect you to use for the part.
> 
> The 4.75 beta that ASRock no longer links to, but which is still on Station Drivers, has AGESA 1.2.0.3c and the initial 5800X3D firmware, so _might_ work.


Thanks! I have completely skipped the beta section in asrock support page, need to look better so..... seems that my "go to" would be a bios with agesa 1.2.0.6b



tcclaviger said:


> C8E is in, what a pleasure to work with compared to the C6E...
> 
> Part of it was going from the official bitspower monoblock for c6e to an optimus foundation + derbaur block adjustment mount. What a massive difference in temperatures lol.


wasn't aware of this derauer thing.... after a quick read seems something done for "non full die" covers (eg. round AIO blocks) so it will be useless on my EK cpu+vrm fullcover of my x470 taichi....do you agree?


----------



## DADDYDC650

Blameless said:


> I just opened up F51e and it's already got Vermeer and Vermeer-X microcodes anyway. If 1.2.0.5 allows boosting, that firmware should work, as is, with the 5800X3D.


 Are you sure that F51e supports vermeer? I’ve read that it does not.


----------



## sumitlian

Taraquin said:


> It depends very much on the game. Techpowerup results at 720pSome games scales greatly with increased L3 cache, Far cry 5\6 and Borderlands 3 run far better on 5800X3D than on 12900K. On the other hand, games like Civ 6 and RDR2 don`t scale at all with larger L3 cache and a reulgar 5800X performs about the same meaning 12900K is significantly ahead.


Yeah I understand, it's not always magic. But it's very strange for 5800X3D to not perform much better in Civ 6 because Anandtech's old records (w/ 2080 Ti) says something else.
This is 480p minimum graphics settings and here 5800X is the fastest CPU here. Faster than 12900K+DDR5-4800.


Spoiler









CPU 2021 Benchmarks - Compare Products on AnandTech


CPU 2021 benchmarks: Compare two products side-by-side or see a cascading list of product ratings along with our annotations.




www.anandtech.com















What I find more interesting is large cache is what the Civ 6 seems to like the most, look at how 5775C at only 3.6 GHz all core turbo is doing much better than all Zen 2 and some entry level Zen 3. Broadwell (5775C) has no magical Instruction Set or anything like that other than that it has this one unified 128 MB eDRAM working as L4 cache. Or may be others are testing the turn-time instead of just the raw fps since turn-time is what start to gradually matter more as the game progresses. I don't know, there got to be some explanation why 5800X3D isn't doing great in this game.


----------



## bloot

Well, on 1.2.0.5 bioses i have voltage control setting for the cpu, but the cpu does not boost at all, it stays at 3.4GHz all the time.

On 1.2.0.6b and 1.2.06c it boost fine but I have no volltage control for the cpu.

Holy crap, I just want to undervolt my CPU not overvolt it, come on AMD.


----------



## Blameless

tcclaviger said:


> Anyone tested 1205 yet?


No boosting on 1.2.0.5.



DADDYDC650 said:


> Are you sure that F51e supports vermeer? I’ve read that it does not.


The microcode is in there and the AGESA version is plenty new enough.

That said, with no boosting by default on 1.2.0.5, you're best bet until 1.2.0.7, if you have to run a 5800X3D now, would be much older firmware (AGESA v2 1.1.0.0 to perhaps 1.1.8.0) that has the +500MHz auto OC offset, so you could at least get 3.9GHz until official support.



bloot said:


> Well, on 1.2.0.5 bioses i have voltage control setting for the cpu, but the cpu does not boost at all, it stays at 3.4GHz all the time.
> 
> On 1.2.0.6b and 1.2.06c it boost fine but I have no volltage control for the cpu.


If you can find an early enough beta with 1.2.0.6 you might have more luck, but such firmware might not exist for your board.


----------



## Razkin

My experience with the 5800X3D on a Gigabyte X470 Gaming 7 wifi:
Bios F60h which I ran my 5800X with -> stuck @ 3,3GHz, but would show 34x mp in windows. If mp set at 44x it would show 4,4GHz in Windows(CPU-Z), but performance wise same as at 3,3GHz
Bios F62(1.2.0.5) -> CPU is not boosting.
Bios F63(1.2.0.6b) -> CPU works as expected, often hits 44,5x with light threaded loads, almost never hits 45,5x. Currently running 102,33MHz bclk. CPU boost the same mp's as stock, but upped the loadline calibration for more vcore. Still at the max of 1,3V, but during load mostly 1,26V in stead of 1,21V. Easily hits 90C running Cinebench with the extra 0,05V under a Kraken X63 AIO. Gaming loads are only ~60C +/-5C.

What is the best way to detect SATA/NVME SSD corruption?


----------



## BHS1975

bloot said:


> Anybody knows how this guy managed to undervolt it to 1V? The article explains nothing at all...
> 
> Wccftech Reader Tunes His AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D Into a Efficiency Monster With Undervolting: Same Performance at 1V, 57W Peak Power at Sub-1V


He must be clock stretching.


----------



## tcclaviger

Zero chance it is actually stable. P95 small would insta reboot it.


----------



## Nighthog

Sadly getting those WHEA errors when trying 4000/2000 for MEM/FCLK on my 5800X3D, as was expected though.

X570 Unify-X does not give core voltage control, PBO or Core Clock settings with the 1.2.0.6c BIOS.

VDDG_CCD & VDDG_IOD seem to work, zentimings reads the values you set but I saw no benefit fiddling yet with those to get WHEA solved for 2000FCLK.
1900FCLK was easy, needed no fiddling about to be stable by the looks of it.

Really sours the taste to see these chips be so locked down. They are more locked than the PRO sku:s are. (4650G PRO for example)


----------



## LtMatt

Nighthog said:


> Sadly getting those WHEA errors when trying 4000/2000 for MEM/FCLK on my 5800X3D, as was expected though.
> 
> X570 Unify-X does not give core voltage control, PBO or Core Clock settings with the 1.2.0.6c BIOS.
> 
> VDDG_CCD & VDDG_IOD seem to work, zentimings reads the values you set but I saw no benefit fiddling yet with those to get WHEA solved for 2000FCLK.
> 1900FCLK was easy, needed no fiddling about to be stable by the looks of it.
> 
> Really sours the taste to see these chips be so locked down. They are more locked than the PRO sku:s are. (4650G PRO for example)


I see the same with my sample. Does 1900Mhz easily at stock, but I have to set geardown to enabled or I don’t always pass post, and if I do it’s bsod before Windows. I was hoping to be able to disable it but no luck so far.

I initially thought I had 4000 stable as it posts easily and I passed a memory test at 1000%. However running cinebench would throw a single Whea which so far I cannot resolve.


----------



## Nighthog

LtMatt said:


> I see the same with my sample. Does 1900Mhz easily at stock, but I have to set geardown to enabled or I don’t always pass post, and if I do it’s bsod before Windows. I was hoping to be able to disable it but no luck so far.
> 
> I initially thought I had 4000 stable as it posts easily and I passed a memory test at 1000%. However running cinebench would throw a single Whea which so far I cannot resolve.


I was getting some hundreds of whea's after a few minutes. Even though memory was not producing errors, or applications were running fine.
I didn't test everything yet but going by others experience it's not fixable by the usual settings combinations I had in mind.


----------



## LtMatt

Nighthog said:


> I was getting some hundreds of whea's after a few minutes. Even though memory was not producing errors, or applications were running fine.
> I didn't test everything yet but going by others experience it's not fixable by the usual settings combinations I had in mind.


Yeah I’ve not managed to fix it, or geardown mode. If anyone has any suggestions I’m all ears. So far I have tried putting SOC up to 1.150v from 1.080v. My stock VDDP is 1.095v or so seems quite high. Tried 1.050v, 0.925v and 0.800v no difference. Stock IOd is 1.047v. Tried as high as 1.100v no difference.

Not the end of the world though, as 3800/1900 CL14 flies and is noticeably faster than my outgoing 5950X in a few of my regular games.


----------



## Veii

Blameless said:


> Does this hardlock permanently change something on the CPU itself?


Yes, I suspect PSP_FW hardlock
but some 1206B bioses where Patch-C bioses
Hence the VDDG "bug" caused by the lock was fixed on them


Blameless said:


> That said, with no boosting by default on 1.2.0.5, you're best bet until 1.2.0.7, if you have to run a 5800X3D now, would be much older firmware (AGESA v2 1.1.0.0 to perhaps 1.1.8.0) that has the +500MHz auto OC offset, so you could at least get 3.9GHz until official support.


This does nothing , as they are not mapped correctly
Only the options are there with their target addresses (the buttons), the targets tho are wrong


----------



## tcclaviger

The 1.8PLL has the biggest impact on WHEA 19 production in my experience. It also helps memory throughput, I'm told l, and bclk stability, I've observed.

I don't know what's safe, but I've seen 2.13 mentioned as upper limit. It's like CLDO VDDP behavior, there's a correct windows, above and below hurts performance.

1933 and 1966 for me are sneaky WHEA 19s, it'll be fine for quite a while (like it can go 5+ hours with none, then throw one) under various loads etc and then spit a few for no apparent reason. This is silencable safely imho.


----------



## PJVol

Blameless said:


> No boosting on 1.2.0.5.


Can you check, if CpbDis is set in CPU config?


----------



## BHS1975

I haven't been able to get mine to 1900 FCLK but I got it running at 1866 and I was able to run my ram at 3733 cl14 which it wouldn't do at 3800 without way to much voltage for my liking so I may be better off anyways.


----------



## LtMatt

tcclaviger said:


> The 1.8PLL has the biggest impact on WHEA 19 production in my experience. It also helps memory throughput, I'm told l, and bclk stability, I've observed.
> 
> I don't know what's safe, but I've seen 2.13 mentioned as upper limit. It's like CLDO VDDP behavior, there's a correct windows, above and below hurts performance.
> 
> 1933 and 1966 for me are sneaky WHEA 19s, it'll be fine for quite a while (like it can go 5+ hours with none, then throw one) under various loads etc and then spit a few for no apparent reason. This is silencable safely imho.


the 1.8v PLL is one I've not played with much. I tried only up to 1.85v. You think it might help get 4000/2000 WHEA free and 100% stable?


----------



## tcclaviger

It won't fix spewing errors where they arrive like 50 at a time, ime, it will help/fix slowly ticking errors.


----------



## Blameless

PJVol said:


> Can you check, if CpbDis is set in CPU config?


Is there a way to read this in software?

The ~$90 board I'm using currently doesn't reveal many settings.



Veii said:


> Yes, I suspect PSP_FW hardlock
> but some 1206B bioses where Patch-C bioses
> Hence the VDDG "bug" caused by the lock was fixed on them


Can you clarify this? What's the expected VDDG behavior on true 1.2.0.6b vs. 1.2.0.6c?



Veii said:


> This does nothing , as they are not mapped correctly
> Only the options are there with their target addresses (the buttons), the targets tho are wrong


When I tested patched AGESA 1.1.0.0 firmware, the auto OC offset definitely appeared to be applying to the 3.4GHz base clock. Everything reported 3.9GHz and it was performing like 3.9GHz.


----------



## Zeryth

This thing really does not like going above 1900 for me. 1900 fclk will boot on auto voltages no problem, but none of the higher frequencies will even boot with any voltage


----------



## bloot

Nighthog said:


> Sadly getting those WHEA errors when trying 4000/2000 for MEM/FCLK on my 5800X3D, as was expected though.
> 
> X570 Unify-X does not give core voltage control, PBO or Core Clock settings with the 1.2.0.6c BIOS.
> 
> VDDG_CCD & VDDG_IOD seem to work, zentimings reads the values you set but I saw no benefit fiddling yet with those to get WHEA solved for 2000FCLK.
> 1900FCLK was easy, needed no fiddling about to be stable by the looks of it.
> 
> Really sours the taste to see these chips be so locked down. They are more locked than the PRO sku:s are. (4650G PRO for example)


Same experience here, 1900MHz FCLK no problem at all, I can even set vsoc to 1V with no whea or crashes. But the moment I go above that, lots of whea reported in hwinfo. It can boot at 4000/2000, did not fiddle with voltages other than vsoc, vddp and vddg (set to auto) though.


----------



## MrHoof

Intresting benchmark tool from @ManniX-ITA that didnt get noticed much yet. Would be nice if some of you guys would post some scores.
Good to keep track of various things like ppt/edc/tdc usage, temp&power usage and VID/Voltage report.

BenchMaestro - CPU & GPU benchmarking and Tools Utility | Overclock.net
BenchMaestro - Post your results | Overclock.net


----------



## LtMatt

bloot said:


> Same experience here, 1900MHz FCLK no problem at all, I can even set vsoc to 1V with no whea or crashes. But the moment I go above that, lots of whea reported in hwinfo. It can boot at 4000/2000, did not fiddle with voltages other than vsoc, vddp and vddg (set to auto) though.


Same as me, got the SOC down to 1v also at 3800/1900 but no luck above 1900.


----------



## PJVol

Blameless said:


> Is there a way to read this in software?


Yeah, in Bios it may be under Core Performace Boost, but if not, if you have a way to read MSR C0010015, 25-bit is CpbDis. 1 means CPB disabled.


----------



## BHS1975

I can under-volt the vcore with about 0.065v before performance drops


----------



## Luggage

BHS1975 said:


> I can under-volt the vcore with about 0.065v before performance drops


YC, p95 small?


----------



## BHS1975

I can run 1866 fclk at 1v soc but no post at 1900 and whea city beyond that. My 5600x wouldn't go below 1.06 SOC without whea errors.


----------



## BHS1975

Luggage said:


> YC, p95 small?


R23 OCCT stable as well.


----------



## tcclaviger

It's very temp sensitive, I've found. Counterintuitively the colder it stays the less neg offset works, because it boosts higher for longer.

Once it's holding at max multi steady, any neg offset becomes a hindrance.

For example at 44.5 mutli I score 15200 R23. Add any neg offset and it drops to 14800. At 4550 all core auto voltage is too little and it needs +0.0625 to score 15600. +0.0125 scores 15720.


----------



## MrHoof

tcclaviger said:


> It's very temp sensitive, I've found. Counterintuitively the colder it stays the less neg offset works, because it boosts higher for longer.
> 
> Once it's holding at max multi steady, any neg offset becomes a hindrance.
> 
> For example at 44.5 mutli I score 15200 R23. Add any neg offset and it drops to 14800. At 4550 all core auto voltage is too little and it needs +0.0625 to score 15600. +0.0125 scores 15720.


That was the case already for every Ryzen i had 3600 and 5800x. They always have temp thresholds they try to hold and if they cant they clock down to keep the temps steady.
So if you can cool higher voltages there is no point for a negative offet unless it can do the desired frequency at lower voltages too.
edit: My cooling solution isnt the best and at stock it seems to start clocking down for me at 65°C 4.45GHZ and further at 80°C 4.4GHZ and then further down to 4.375GHZ to keep it 80°C


----------



## BHS1975

tcclaviger said:


> It's very temp sensitive, I've found. Counterintuitively the colder it stays the less neg offset works, because it boosts higher for longer.
> 
> Once it's holding at max multi steady, any neg offset becomes a hindrance.
> 
> For example at 44.5 mutli I score 15200 R23. Add any neg offset and it drops to 14800. At 4550 all core auto voltage is too little and it needs +0.0625 to score 15600. +0.0125 scores 15720.


Do you mean 0.125?


----------



## bloot

BHS1975 said:


> I can under-volt the vcore with about 0.065v before performance drops


How do you undervolt? The only way I found is using @PJVol's PBO2 Tuner in Windows but i'd like to make it permanet and not having to set it everytime system reboots. Also setting LLC to the lowest value helps reducing some voltage on load at least.

Please AMD, give us vcore control so we can undervolt it on bios, just block it up to 1.35V if you don't want us to fry the cache, it shouldn't be so difficult, I just want a lower vcore than stock.


----------



## Luggage

MSI to enable Ryzen 7 5800X3D BCLK overclocking for X570 MEG motherboards, up to 7% higher single-core performance - VideoCardz.com


AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D to gain BCLK overclocking feature on MEG X570 series MSI is set to release a new AGESA firmware update for Ryzen 7 5800X3D processor that will enable BCLK overclocking. Wccftech reports that MSI will be rolling out an update to AGESA 1.2.0.7 in the coming days. This firmware...




videocardz.com





Hmm - the wants just increased a smidge, now will this fsck up my two nmve drives?


----------



## yzonker

Just got my 5800x3D. No issue dropping it in and just resetting everything back to what I had with the 5800x. 3800 fclk was no issue or my tuned setting for the B-die. I'll have to try going higher. My 5800x wasn't happy above 3800.

I'll have to do some research. I tried setting BCLK to 101 and got a boot loop immediately. But I haven't dug in to it as far as what might make it work or not. (Gigabyte X570 Aorus Ultra). 

One question though, which parts of the PBO2 tuner tool on the first page of this thread is supposed to work? 

Setting CO values seemed to work to a point like I think others have reported. In Cinebench it would lock at 4450mhz on all cores. Score was right at 15000 just running it in my normal OS. Looks like it's hitting 4550mhz running CoreCycler.

It doesn't appear the CO setting survives a reboot though.


----------



## BHS1975

bloot said:


> How do you undervolt? The only way I found is using @PJVol's PBO2 Tuner in Windows but i'd like to make it permanet and not having to set it everytime system reboots. Also setting LLC to the lowest value helps reducing some voltage on load at least.
> 
> Please AMD, give us vcore control so we can undervolt it on bios, just block it up to 1.35V if you don't want us to fry the cache, it shouldn't be so difficult, I just want a lower vcore than stock.


I used the vcore offset in the bios.


----------



## tcclaviger

BHS1975 said:


> Do you mean 0.125?


No 0.0125, 12.5 mv not 125mv.


bloot said:


> How do you undervolt? The only way I found is using @PJVol's PBO2 Tuner in Windows but i'd like to make it permanet and not having to set it everytime system reboots. Also setting LLC to the lowest value helps reducing some voltage on load at least.
> 
> 
> 
> Please AMD, give us vcore control so we can undervolt it on bios, just block it up to 1.35V if you don't want us to fry the cache, it shouldn't be so difficult, I just want a lower vcore than stock.


Vcore offset in bios works. It's not AMD blocking it it's the vbios.



Luggage said:


> MSI to enable Ryzen 7 5800X3D BCLK overclocking for X570 MEG motherboards, up to 7% higher single-core performance - VideoCardz.com
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D to gain BCLK overclocking feature on MEG X570 series MSI is set to release a new AGESA firmware update for Ryzen 7 5800X3D processor that will enable BCLK overclocking. Wccftech reports that MSI will be rolling out an update to AGESA 1.2.0.7 in the coming days. This firmware...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> videocardz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm - the wants just increased a smidge, now will this fsck up my two nmve drives?


Maybe. I've not had m.2 corruption due to bclk, ever. Bad memory config yes, bclk no. It is possible though.

That's across WD SN550, Samsung 980 Pro 1tb, and CS3030 1tb and 2tb.

SN 550 tolerated 110 bclk fine too.


----------



## bloot

BHS1975 said:


> I used the vcore offset in the bios.


Which agesa version is your bios? I have no vcore offset mode in 1.2.0.6 bioses, and on 1.2.0.5 it's there but the cpu won't boost past 3.4GHz 😞


----------



## bloot

tcclaviger said:


> Vcore offset in bios works. It's not AMD blocking it it's the vbios.


So it's MSI who's to blame that I have no vcore offset setting on agesa 1.2.0.6b or c? I thought nobody had it.


----------



## ilmazzo

Yuk! Asrock has a 1.2.0.6 agesa in the latest beta bios for x470 taichi (L4.88)

“Update AMD AM4 AGESA Combo V2 PI 1.2.0.6b”


----------



## yzonker

I did some basic 3Dmark runs just for consistency. No matter what, it scores lower in PR now,









Result







www.3dmark.com





Anybody else see this? Some issue maybe with my mobo (bios)? I flashed it to the latest. F36b ("Update AMD AGESA V2 1.2.0.6 B for Ryzen 7 5800X3D support")

Guess I'll have to put the 5800x back in to verify.


----------



## tcclaviger

Edit: PR, duh me. Not TS lol.

PR is so gpu bound the cpu is only minimally impactful tbh.

Would guess a 200 point swing could just be a temp difference if the GPU was on the same clock profile, or multiple tests were run back to back on a GA102. The score degrades slightly when run over and over, GN, J2C and Kingpin all mentioned observing it happen, and so have I.



bloot said:


> So it's MSI who's to blame that I have no vcore offset setting on agesa 1.2.0.6b or c? I thought nobody had it.


Correct. AMD didn't disable it.


----------



## yzonker

tcclaviger said:


> Edit: PR, duh me. Not TS lol.
> 
> PR is so gpu bound the cpu is only minimally impactful tbh.
> 
> Would guess a 200 point swing could just be a temp difference if the GPU was on the same clock profile, or multiple tests were run back to back on a GA102. The score degrades slightly when run over and over, GN, J2C and Kingpin all mentioned observing it happen, and so have I.


So I've gone full circle now and it is something else with the system. Can't get back to that first run with the 5800x either. Grrr...









Result







www.3dmark.com





I wasn't expecting a gain in PR, just not a loss. But it appears to be something else. 

It did gain in Firestrike that runs at a much higher framerate. And this is against the "Magic" runs I made originally.









Result







www.3dmark.com





I also tested CP2077 and Tomb Raider. Both showed significant gains, so I would say it's working as expected.


----------



## tcclaviger

Yeah I've fought that PR score regression in the past too. Haven't been able to isolate it in my case beyond, sometimes it just runs poorly sometimes not, wish I could help.


----------



## Blameless

PJVol said:


> Yeah, in Bios it may be under Core Performace Boost, but if not, if you have a way to read MSR C0010015, 25-bit is CpbDis. 1 means CPB disabled.


I have this set to auto in the BIOS which is the same as enabled.

Earlier I was thinking of APBDIS for some reason.



bloot said:


> So it's MSI who's to blame that I have no vcore offset setting on agesa 1.2.0.6b or c? I thought nobody had it.


It's the board maker hiding settings at AMD's recommendation. Voltage control isn't actually being locked by AMD.

I've only tried it on my cheap MSI board so far and I've seen the same patterns you have...if it supports the 5800X3D fully, MSI has also hidden the voltage options.


----------



## bmagnien

Just got the new EK monoblock installed on my Asus x570-I mobo. Might be the first to rock the 5800x3D/ITX w/ monoblock combo. Chipset temp dropped 30c from 65 to 35 while eliminating two mobo fans. Unfortunately I don't believe this board has an external clock gen. Does that mean I'm SOL for effective BCLK overclocking? Is there anyway to leverage my pointlessly cold chipset to assist with overclocking?

Pretty happy with initial testing. Ram is stable at same speeds as on my 5950x (3800CL14 FCLK 1900). Was able to score the top spots in TimeSpy and Firestrike for X3D/3090 as of right now.









I scored 20 729 in Time Spy


AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com













I scored 41 853 in Fire Strike


AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## yzonker

tcclaviger said:


> Yeah I've fought that PR score regression in the past too. Haven't been able to isolate it in my case beyond, sometimes it just runs poorly sometimes not, wish I could help.


Actually I've got the 5800x3D back in now. I think it is slightly slower, just not as much as it originally appeared. These are 2 runs I just made. I think the average will end up being lower (50-100pts).









Result not found







www.3dmark.com













Result not found







www.3dmark.com





But on a positive note, you can see where it does gain,


----------



## LtMatt

Does anyone have a download link for the PBO2 Tuner tool? EDIT - Nevermind found it here.


----------



## Nighthog

There is a issue with the X570 Unify-X not allowing Geardown Mode: Disabled & 1T commandrate when using the 5800X3D.

The current BIOS (7D51v123) I have just for some reason greys-out & disables the setting for GearDown when you touch the Command Rate option to set 1T or 2T setting.
You have to keep it AUTO with defaults to 2T if you want to use the Geardown Mode setting further down in the options.

This was not the behaviour I had when I was using the 3800X in the same system & BIOS version. It was still configurable there with being settable with both in use.
Can't fathom the change in behaviour.

My 3800X did 5200Mts memory @ Geardown Mode: Disabled 1T.
Wanted to do the same with the 5800X3D for comparison but getting AUTO corrected into 2T only with Geardown Mode: Disabled.

You set 1T and it *enabled* Geardown Mode.

Another nuisance is when you clear-cmos you wipe your saved profiles. This worked fine with the 3800X earlier.
This is problematic as you have to wipe settings with clear-cmos way to often trying to get 5000+ Mts speeds to work.
Getting all your "safe profiles" wiped each time is such a headache.

EDIT:
The 5800X3D does fine with 5100Mts as bootable but will have to go through it all again as the voltages and settings are slightly different for this than the 3800X wanted.
Not gotten 5200Mts to work yet but that needed very specific settings for the 3800X to do after extensive force needed to be applied.


----------



## bloot

Blameless said:


> It's the board maker hiding settings at AMD's recommendation. Voltage control isn't actually being locked by AMD.
> 
> I've only tried it on my cheap MSI board so far and I've seen the same patterns you have...if it supports the 5800X3D fully, MSI has also hidden the voltage options.


Thanks, I started a thread on the MSI forums hoping someone at MSI sees it and has the common sense to add it.






MSI Global English Forum


...




forum-en.msi.com


----------



## yzonker

LtMatt said:


> Does anyone have a download link for the PBO2 Tuner tool? EDIT - Nevermind found it here.











5800X3D Owners


Scroll Down For Gaming Results If Not Interested In Details TLDR: 5800X3D is a monster at gaming, is easily OCd, and runs hot and beats even a tuned 5950x in most games; for general computing the 5800x, and more importantly now, the 5700x trounce it when OCd as well but cannot match it in...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Blameless

bloot said:


> Thanks, I started a thread on the MSI forums hoping someone at MSI sees it and has the common sense to add it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MSI Global English Forum
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forum-en.msi.com


At this point I'm finding that fine tuning LLC works well enough, given the meager options we have with the 5800X3D.

Use as much vdroop as you can get away with, without clock stretching. If you were able to apply a manual negative offset, you'd see similar results.


----------



## bloot

Blameless said:


> At this point I'm finding that fine tuning LLC works well enough, given the meager options we have with the 5800X3D.
> 
> Use as much vdroop as you can get away with, without clock stretching. If you were able to apply a manual negative offset, you'd see similar results.


Yeah I already been trying lowest LLC and PBO2 tuner app, it sits at 1.12-.1.13V on high load now, but PBO2 tuner resets after a reboot, so I'd like a permanent solution, that's why vcore offset setting is a must, makes no sense other vendors kept it and MSI just don't let you undervolt 

With LLC 8 only, voltage goes to 1.19-1.2V on load, way too high yet.


----------



## Blameless

bloot said:


> Yeah I already been trying lowest LLC and PBO2 tuner app, it sits at 1.12-.1.13V on high load now, but PBO2 tuner resets after a reboot, so I'd like a permanent solution, that's why vcore offset setting is a must, makes no sense other vendors kept it and MSI just don't let you undervolt
> 
> With LLC 8 only, voltage goes to 1.19-1.2V on load, way too high yet.


Even LLC5 starts clock stretching at heavier loads on my setup.

What is 1.2v too high for? Very few of these parts have a ton of voltage headroom for a given performance level, so if you need to reduce heat/power capping clocks (via power options in Windows) or power limits (which should still exist in the BIOS), should be achieving similar end-results.


----------



## bloot

Blameless said:


> Even LLC5 starts clock stretching at heavier loads on my setup.
> 
> What is 1.2v too high for? Very few of these parts have a ton of voltage headroom for a given performance level, so if you need to reduce heat/power capping clocks (via power options in Windows) or power limits (which should still exist in the BIOS), should be achieving similar end-results.


At 1.12.-1.13V (LLC 8, CO -30 with PBO Tuner) Cinebench scores are a bit better than stock, so I don't think I'm experiencing clock stretching, at least on CB. I just need an offset core voltage on bios to make the undervolt permanent and not having to open PBO2 Tuner everytime I boot the system and setting all the cores at -30 and then apply.

Bear in mind, this CPU clocks are 4.3-4.4 on load and 1.2V is way too high for that frequency. I had my 5900X at 4.65GHz and 4.4GHz CCD1 & CCD2 at 1.15V without an issue for a year.


----------



## BHS1975

bloot said:


> At 1.12.-1.13V (LLC 8, CO -30 with PBO Tuner) Cinebench scores are a bit better than stock, so I don't think I'm experiencing clock stretching, at least on CB. I just need an offset core voltage on bios to make the undervolt permanent and not having to open PBO2 Tuner everytime I boot the system and setting all the cores at -30 and then apply.
> 
> Bear in mind, this CPU clocks are 4.3-4.4 on load and 1.2V is way too high for that frequency. I had my 5900X at 4.65GHz and 4.4GHz CCD1 & CCD2 at 1.15V without an issue for a year.


I am getting about 1.18v under load. What should it be?


----------



## yzonker

Making some progress. I guess IF isn't as happy with 100+ bclk. I managed to get 102 bclk working (103 fails to show video, maybe 3090 crapping out). But I had to drop to 3633 fclk to get it working. Anything higher won't post. I even tried leaving the mem slow and bumping fclk. Still no post. 

PR score is a tiny bit better on average, still maybe 50pts shy.









Result







www.3dmark.com





But other stuff is much better. 

5800x was a dismal 220fps (demo version is slower, right?),










5800x was 215-220,










And EndWalker crept up a bit more,


----------



## yzonker

BHS1975 said:


> I am getting about 1.18v under load. What should it be?


Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, but in my testing I found that below -15 CO there is no gain as the voltages go down, but the CPU still tops out at 4550mhz single core, 4450mhz full load (Cinebench). So there is no benefit other than reduced power usage. Might be helpful if you are fighting temps.


----------



## LtMatt

yzonker said:


> Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, but in my testing I found that below -15 CO there is no gain as the voltages go down, but the CPU still tops out at 4550mhz single core, 4450mhz full load (Cinebench). So there is no benefit other than reduced power usage. Might be helpful if you are fighting temps.


Noticed the same. Got my highest CblB23 scores at -15 and 30.


----------



## BHS1975

LtMatt said:


> Noticed the same. Got my highest CblB23 scores at -15 and 30.


Is that the same as setting an offset in bios and what offset is -15 and -30 equivalent to?


----------



## Blameless

bloot said:


> At 1.12.-1.13V (LLC 8, CO -30 with PBO Tuner) Cinebench scores are a bit better than stock, so I don't think I'm experiencing clock stretching, at least on CB. I just need an offset core voltage on bios to make the undervolt permanent and not having to open PBO2 Tuner everytime I boot the system and setting all the cores at -30 and then apply.


A negative vcore offset isn't equivalent to negative CO values. The former will tend to cap boost frequency by moving voltage down along the same curve, while the latter skews the curve itself.

Ideally, we'd have access to both, but the CO is _much_ more useful, in general. Also, neither are actually locked out by AMD, as is evident from PBO2 Tuner working at all and voltage adjustment working on old firmware. The only actual hardware locks appear to be multiplier and current/power/temperature values.



yzonker said:


> Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, but in my testing I found that below -15 CO there is no gain as the voltages go down, but the CPU still tops out at 4550mhz single core, 4450mhz full load (Cinebench). So there is no benefit other than reduced power usage. Might be helpful if you are fighting temps.


Cinebench is a pretty mild load. I saw scaling all the way down to -30 CO in heavier stuff.



BHS1975 said:


> Is that the same as setting an offset in bios


It's not precisely the same as a voltage offset, no.



BHS1975 said:


> and what offset is -15 and -30 equivalent to?


-30 is about -100mV of curve.


----------



## bloot

BHS1975 said:


> I am getting about 1.18v under load. What should it be?


It problably varies from chip to chip and the motherboard used, I'm getting 1.206-1.225V and ~5600 CB R20 at stock volts and 1.106-1.11V at LLC 8 and CO -30, ~5800 CB R20. And, most important, much better temps:

LLC 8 CO -30









Stock voltage









In case MSI don't give me vcore adjustment on next bioses I might switch to a motherboard that don't have that absurd restriction 

By the way, cpu bclk is at stock, no freq tuning, just stock frequencies.


----------



## BHS1975

bloot said:


> It problably varies from chip to chip and the motherboard used, I'm getting 1.206-1.225V and ~5600 CB R20 at stock volts and 1.106-1.11V at LLC 8 and CO -30, ~5800 CB R20. And, most important, much better temps:
> 
> LLC 8 CO -30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stock voltage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In case MSI don't give me vcore adjustment on next bioses I might switch to a motherboard that don't have that absurd restriction
> 
> By the way, cpu bclk is at stock, no freq tuning, just stock frequencies.


So what would I set mine too since I can do both?


----------



## bloot

BHS1975 said:


> So what would I set mine too since I can do both?


You have to try it for yourself, people here says vcore offset is not as effective as CO and produces clock stretching, I wish I could try it for myself...


----------



## Luggage

Anyone feel like testing is desynced really high bw memory speed gives any performance now that the cache should counteract the latency penalty?


----------



## yzonker

I've been wanting the full version anyway. BTW I ran this in full screen, I just swapped to windowed to make the screenshot since I can't figure out where stupid Ansel is putting them (if it really is). Pretty close to the top scores in this thread. Must not really need the high fclk, at least for this game. 

I'm going to do some mem re-tuning now that I'm down to 3633. I already dropped some of the timings down and passed an hour of TM5 (didn't complete it yet).


----------



## BHS1975

You guys think they will add CO back to the bios or make the windows one start on boot?


----------



## urielejh

tcclaviger said:


> Would point to Hardware unboxed day 1 review, he did 3200 and 3800 on the otherwise same config, as did skatter Bencher, showing the ram impacts.
> 
> I'll run a full "Auto" memory test at ~3600 of SotTR later to compare to the 1st post #s. Auto-3600 is probably what most normies/noobies set it at so seems most relevant (like Ryzen master docp/xmp doesn't exist in my world).
> 
> 
> 
> The OC does show gains, in every title I've tested except weirdo console ported AC Odyssey. OC vs stock is in 1st post pictures. Called it stockish because RAM is tuned so it's not stock.
> 
> Mostly I am OCing to gain back general computing performance outside gaming, which it's done as well as can expected for a very constrained OCing window.
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Check Hardware unboxed videos, these notions are demonstrablly false.
> 
> 
> X3D in 40 games and Core count vs cache size videos. Extrapolate using 12900k using ddr5 review vs 5900x gaming defecit and you'll see a massive gain from 5900x to X3D, most certainly not limited to low res.
> 40 Games tested
> Core count testing
> Cache vs core count


40 games tested.. the only serious game with a positive result is Valhalla with a mere 8% at both 1440 and 4k lol.
core/cache.. in farct, you can clearly see that at core parity, the more the cache the better the fps and at cache parity, the more the cores the better the fps. (depending on game-per-game basis)

graphs, those strangers..


----------



## tcclaviger

Your points smell of this

The original point wasn't is the 12900k faster than x3d, it was is the x3d faster than X Zen 3 at 1440/4k. Answer: definitely yes. Extrapolate those 12900k results vs Zen 3 X using his AL review and you'll see x3D has clear gains, in the overwhelming majority of cases.

Simple example, FF14 results I posted. I challenge anyone on a Zen 3 X + GA102 to beat them with like settings at 1440 (hint, you won't).

It's not even a debate, I have both here. I game on both at 3440 165hz. X3D wins.

As for value: Compare 3080ti to 3090 to 3090ti % gains at like clocks and you'll find x3d is more gain per dollar than climbing the GA102 stack and plenty of people have done that so....


----------



## MNKyDeth

Got my 5800x3d this past Friday.
Had a moment to just turn it on and test.

I have two sets of gskill B-die ram.
One set is 3600 the other set is 4000.

Setting either set to spd values the system boots without issue. FCLK at 1800 or 2000.
At 2000 I do get the whea errors. 1800 I do not.

Using my 4000mhz stick with the xmp loose timings.
I am able to boot at the 1900fclk without whea errors.

All my voltage settings are set to auto currently.

Reading the thread it seems most are stuck at 1900fclk as max before getting errors.

I'll be going back through the system and setting all timing to manual values and slowly working them lower. But before I work them lower I want to ensure that the 1900fclk is the max I can go.

What seems to be the best or most obvious suggestions to try and get rid of whea errors?

I'm starting to go through the memory overclocking thread in my spare time at work today. To see if anything seems obvious.


Edit:
I am using a Gigabyte X570 Aorus extreme as well. With bios f36a if I recall. Cooling is a Noctua D-15 at the moment.


----------



## yzonker

So for anyone wondering if they need to tune out that last bit out of their mem,


























Bring on the B-die! Wait, what? Maybe I mislabeled my screenshots. LOL. Maybe there's still _something_ out there that this helps on....


----------



## LazyGamer

So, working on the 5800X3D, using 2 x 16GB 3600 C14 TeamGroup sticks at DOCP (for now). And... where's VDIMM?!?

(board is ASUS Strix X570-I Gaming, and I'm using the stock cooler from the 5700G for convenience)


----------



## tcclaviger

yzonker said:


> So for anyone wondering if they need to tune out that last bit out of their mem,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bring on the B-die! Wait, what? Maybe I mislabeled my screenshots. LOL. Maybe there's still something out there that this helps on....


Interesting. I can clearly see SotTR scale with speed of RAM, but have observed the same timing trends, essentially timing independent.

380 fps and up starts to run into GPU bottleneck slightly, still says 0%, but it's 3-5 overall avg below CPU avg instead overall == CPU avg.

385 - 4112
381 - 4050
379 - 3975
374 - 3900


----------



## MrHoof

LazyGamer said:


> So, working on the 5800X3D, using 2 x 16GB 3600 C14 TeamGroup sticks at DOCP (for now). And... where's VDIMM?!?
> 
> (board is ASUS Strix X570-I Gaming, and I'm using the stock cooler from the 5700G for convenience)


The board does not have any VDIMM reading i have it too. But else its great I can do 1T without GDM on it might be worth a try but will probably need atleast ClkDrvSTR at 40ohm.
Also u probably dont need 60ohm ProcODT.

edit:


----------



## tcclaviger

Trace layout envy....

Is that phy at 26 on both channels? Can't get it do so here, 28/28 or 28/26 in GDM off 1t, annoying AF.


----------



## MrHoof

It is indeed but my old 5800x also had 0 trouble with it so its definitely mobo depenend rather then CPU.
On the 5800x SR 2x8GB even works at DrvStr 20-20-20-24 ProcODT 28.2 RTT 7/3/6 vddp 0.8v








edit: 


Spoiler: old 5800x result 2xSR bad kit 3600-17-18-18 xmp


----------



## LazyGamer

MrHoof said:


> The board does not have any VDIMM reading i have it too. But else its great I can do 1T without GDM on it might be worth a try but will probably need atleast ClkDrvSTR at 40ohm.
> Also u probably dont need 60ohm ProcODT.


Thanks for confirming - weird for ASUS to skip that. Reminds me of a Biostar Z590 ITX board I have as part of a review kit that HWINFO64 cannot even read VCore on... but CPU-Z can.

If this test round passes, I'll slap a 280mm AIO on (picked up an X63 since I don't have the AM4 bracket for my ancient H115i) and give the tuning a shot.

Was really just a bit concerned when CPU-Z read the XMP voltage as 1.45v - and then couldn't confirm, 🤣


----------



## tcclaviger

MrHoof said:


> It is indeed but my old 5800x also had 0 trouble with it so its definitely mobo depenend rather then CPU.
> On the 5800x SR 2x8GB even works at DrvStr 20-20-20-24 ProcODT 28.2 RTT 7/3/6 vddp 0.8v
> View attachment 2557860
> 
> edit:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: old 5800x result 2xSR bad kit 3600-17-18-18 xmp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2557862


Fighting with board differences now. C6E seems to be better with 1900/3800 4x8 than C8E 1900/3800 2x8...


----------



## MrHoof

The only time I got tPHYRDL missmatch on this board if vDDP was to low might be worth a try to push it a bit.(Does nothing for most people)


----------



## BHS1975

Would 1866 fclk with ram running at 3733 cl14 flat 1t gm on be about the same or better than 1900 fclk with ram running 3800 with cl15 flat at 2t gm off?


----------



## tcclaviger

Worth testing but I'd suspect the C14 3733 to be better


----------



## tcclaviger

yzonker said:


> Stuff


Nice work on TS and PR, saw the scores go up 

102 Bclk?


----------



## bmagnien

MrHoof said:


> The board does not have any VDIMM reading i have it too. But else its great I can do 1T without GDM on it might be worth a try but will probably need atleast ClkDrvSTR at 40ohm.
> Also u probably dont need 60ohm ProcODT.
> 
> edit:
> View attachment 2557859


Any more suggestions for getting GDM disabled/1T working? I can’t even post it on my x570-I, but admittedly haven’t tried messing with any of the ohm settings. What should I be looking to change in those last sections to try to get a clean post?


----------



## bmagnien

bmagnien said:


> Any more suggestions for getting GDM disabled/1T working? I can’t even post it on my x570-I, but admittedly haven’t tried messing with any of the ohm settings. What should I be looking to change in those last sections to try to get a clean post?


----------



## MrHoof

For DR ClkDrvSTr 40
For SR ClkDrvSTr 20-40
AddrCmdStr 20-24
CsODTStr 24-30
CkeDrvStr 24-30
ProcODT 28.2-32
For DR 7/3/3 RTT
For SR 0/0/5, 7/0/6 or 7/3/6
For DR 0.9v-1v vDDP
For SR 0.8-0.9v vDDP

those are working for my 2 kits but still there are probably diffrences in boards too.


----------



## bmagnien

MrHoof said:


> For DR ClkDrvSTr 40
> For SR ClkDrvSTr 20-40
> AddrCmdStr 20-24
> CsODTStr 24-30
> CkeDrvStr 24-30
> ProcODT 28.2-32
> For DR 7/3/3 RTT
> For SR 0/0/5, 70/6 or 7/3/6
> For DR 0.9v-1v vDDP
> For SR 0.8-0.9v vDDP
> 
> those are working for my 2 kits but still there are probably diffrences in boards too.


Killer thanks man. Will try it out tonight


----------



## yzonker

tcclaviger said:


> Nice work on TS and PR, saw the scores go up
> 
> 102 Bclk?


Yea that's the best I can do for now (dew point is about 10C in the house, tomorrow is supposed to be better). Another upside to the big cache. Forcing on reBar appeared to have a very small effect on the CPU score in TS now. It actually equaled or slightly out scored my 5800x with reBar forced.

bclk: 102
fclk: 3633 (some of us don't have a $1k mobo LOL!, joking but am wondering what might be better than my Aorus Ultra)
mem: CL14 (timings I showed before)

Gained a little bit in the games too, mostly I think from running on my clean Win11 install I use for benching. Although CP2077 was a little GPU dependent too.


----------



## tcclaviger

So GB have a option to return PB2 functionality with raised bclk as well? What is it called, I wasn't aware they had incorporated it, just curious for future knowledge when mobo shopping 

Same dew point here roughly, 51f. There's little chance I'll catch the PR score, 15900 has remained out of reach thus far on the 3080ti.


----------



## yzonker

tcclaviger said:


> So GB have a option to return PB2 functionality with raised bclk as well? What is it called, I wasn't aware they had incorporated it, just curious for future knowledge when mobo shopping
> 
> Same dew point here roughly, 51f. There's little chance I'll catch the PR score, 15900 has remained out of reach thus far on the 3080ti.


Sorry, I don't understand. My Gigabyte mobo? I don't know what option you're referring to?

I think my 3080ti could get to 15.9k if it were in my loop. I did 15.8k last winter using the hybrid and some sub zero air (like -10C). Still 32C average. Could beat that by 10C with the chiller (and dryer air). 









I scored 15 810 in Port Royal


AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## tcclaviger

So when raising bclk, normally AM4 boards automatically disable the boosting of the CPU as default behavior is to go into OC mode with fixed clocks.

On your GB board clearly boost is still working. Do you have to enable anything or it just does it's thing and keeps boosting functional?


----------



## Razkin

tcclaviger said:


> So when raising bclk, normally AM4 boards automatically disable the boosting of the CPU as default behavior is to go into OC mode with fixed clocks.
> 
> On your GB board clearly boost is still working. Do you have to enable anything or it just does it's thing and keeps boosting functional?


I would really be surprised if that behaviour is only typical for GB boards, has always been working like that on my GB X470 Gaming 7 from Zen+ forwards.


----------



## yzonker

tcclaviger said:


> So when raising bclk, normally AM4 boards automatically disable the boosting of the CPU as default behavior is to go into OC mode with fixed clocks.
> 
> On your GB board clearly boost is still working. Do you have to enable anything or it just does it's thing and keeps boosting functional?


Yea I didn't do anything else. Just selected 102. I tried switching to gen3 to see if my 3090 would do 103 or more, but no go. Black screen again. 

Didn't I read that some mobos can decouple the bclk? Does that fix the gpu issue?


----------



## tcclaviger

On Asus it definitely disables boosting when BCLK is raised but the "Force OC mode disable" option isn't switched to enabled. TBH seems like a market segmentation move between Strix and Crosshair.

Not sure on MSI or ASRock. 

102.8 is it on the 3080ti in C8E, that's all she wrote. Up from 102.5 limit on C6E. 

2080ti being happy at 110+ makes me sad lol. Maybe 4k series or AMD cards will play nicer.


----------



## Nighthog

tcclaviger said:


> On Asus it definitely disables boosting when BCLK is raised but the "Force OC mode disable" option isn't switched to enabled. TBH seems like a market segmentation move between Strix and Crosshair.
> 
> Not sure on MSI or ASRock.
> 
> 102.8 is it on the 3080ti in C8E, that's all she wrote. Up from 102.5 limit on C6E.
> 
> 2080ti being happy at 110+ makes me sad lol. Maybe 4k series or AMD cards will play nicer.


A older RX 480 worked upto 130 BCLK with a Ryzen 1700 way back when I tried that stuff with BCLK when Zen2 had yet to be released.

Never had luck with Ryzen 3000 series or later with BCLK to such a extent to test again with newer GPU's.


----------



## BHS1975

BHS1975 said:


> Would 1866 fclk with ram running at 3733 cl14 flat 1t gm on be about the same or better than 1900 fclk with ram running 3800 with cl15 flat at 2t gm off?


I forgot to mention that my sample wont post at 1900 so no way to test.


----------



## BHS1975

I was able to run mine with -30 CO except for core 4 at -28 and a vcore -0.05v offset and it runs about 5C cooler in bf2042 at 60C and uses about 15W less power at 60W and holds max boost.


----------



## tcclaviger

MrHoof said:


> The only time I got tPHYRDL missmatch on this board if vDDP was to low might be worth a try to push it a bit.(Does nothing for most people)


Auto CLDO VDDP was 1.08 lol. Dropped it to .9 and started working up. At .915, PHYRDL fell in line at 26.

Thanks.


----------



## tcclaviger

Think I'm switching out the Gskill 2x16 and trying Patriot 4x8s that worked so beautifully in C6E.

The C8E and GVKA 2x16 don't seem to play particularly nicely together. C14 @ 3800 or higher is a straight up no-go, boots to windows recovery, boot loops, or fails to post, but C15 is solid up to 4112. 

At 3830mt/s c15-14-14-14-29-43 1t GDM off, tm5 passed 20 1usmusv3, did 57640 read, 56.3ns. So, right where it should be. Yet C14 won't even post. Makes no sense.

I know the IMC will do C14 to at least 4050, did it on C6E with the 4x8.

I know the 2x16 kit will do 4000c14 at 1.58 for certain, I ran like that for ages w/5950.

Need to figure this wonky memory situation...


----------



## Veii

Microcode fooling it is
Boost is non existent, SOC reports absurd values power, freq reports 1million ghz
"but" it works, without the boost system
FCLK is dynamic, P-States are written but not loaded. Lock exists


----------



## Dijati

BHS1975 said:


> I was able to run mine with -30 CO except for core 4 at -28 and a vcore -0.05v offset and it runs about 5C cooler in bf2042 at 60C and uses about 15W less power at 60W and holds max boost.


-30 for me on all cores stable so far. 
Temps are about 13 to 15 degrees cooler. Absolutely insane


----------



## Chris Ihao

Hi guys. Got my brand new (what else) 5800x3d as an upgrade to my previous 3700x. Extremely happy with the performance result so far, which is mostly testing Red dead redemption 2 and TW: Warhammer 2, in addition to a few 3dmark tests. What an improvement.

However, using the stock cooler for the 3700x, the AMD Wraith Prism led, I noticed that the cpu started to reach some seriously hot temperatures in RDR2. That's with a gpu load of 100% on my RTX 3080. When it reached around 85c I didn't really feel comfortable anymore, so I went out and got myself a Noctua NH-D15 SE-AM4 yesterday.

As my ram chips dont allow for a push-push (middle fan) config, I tried going for a pull-pull config for the Noctua, but noticed that temps still get high (above 80c) during load in RDR2. Just a few degrees lower. I swapped to a single fan config for the Noctua, which doesn't make a huge difference, so I believe I'll be sticking with that config.

Although I guess I will have some peace of mind after getting the NH-D15 SE, I feel kind of disappointed in the performance, considering its 5 times larger and have a shiny mirror finish compared to the extremely rough base of the Wraith prism base (that has huge gaps). It also cost a dime, to put it like that. I feel that I did an ok job while seating the NH-D15 SE, and I used the included Noctua NTH1 thermal paste this time around.

My question is; does this sound "weird" to you guys? Should I try to re-seat the cooler, or does it sound about right considering the cpu, gpu and everything is working really hard while playing RDR2 in a real life situation? When stress testing with Aida64, I only reached 79c on the cpu during testing of about 15 minutes today. Thing is, due to my current setup, it's a real hassle for me to re-seat the Noctua, so I'm trying to convice myself I'm ok, and move on.

Oh, and I won't be overclocking this one. Never planned to, and after seeing how high it gets at stock settings, I'm even more convinced I won't be subjecting myself to the hassle.

Edit: Ouch. Turns out the temperatures during stress testing in aida64 is a lot higher, if I look at the individual core temps in afterburner. 91c. Sheesh. Thats on stock settings with the Noctua cooler. I guess the cpu temperature shown in the "systems stability test" of Aidia64 is not the temperature to watch.


----------



## bloot

Need help, some of you said you had vcore offset setting on your motherboards, could you please tell me your motherboard model? I may have to switch, as an MSI forums moderator has responded "CPU has zero OC or Undervolt settings as per AMD guidelines for it", is it possible MSI is the only one hiding options? If the CPU is locked anyway, why hide them? They will not work and that's all, but the ones that work, like cpu voltage offset, would be so useful.

Please share the mobos you own that have vcore offset adjustment, so I can buy one and don't find out it's the same as the trash I own now.

Many thanks!


----------



## Nighthog

I found that there are AMD_CBS settings for PBO on the X570 Unify-X after all.

PPT
EDC
TDC

These work with the 5800X3D to lower the stock settings but don't work when increasing from the fused limits.
This is similar to the way PRO processors do things. (4650G PRO for example works the same way)
There is the Scalar (1-10x) setting around and Package Power Limit (TDP) (PPT) as well.


----------



## BHS1975

Dijati said:


> -30 for me on all cores stable so far.
> Temps are about 13 to 15 degrees cooler. Absolutely insane


Yeah the 5C drop on mine was from the -0.05 offset without the CO. So from stock it would be about a 10C drop as it was getting near 70C in bf2042. I wish there was a way to apply CO at boot.


----------



## Dijati

BHS1975 said:


> Yeah the 5C drop on mine was from the -0.05 offset without the CO. So from stock it would be about a 10C drop as it was getting near 70C in bf2042. I wish there was a way to apply CO at boot.


PJVol is looking into it. Maybe he can change that. You can chcek the last Page in the Core Cycler Thread


----------



## BHS1975

Dijati said:


> -30 for me on all cores stable so far.
> Temps are about 13 to 15 degrees cooler. Absolutely insane


Do you have an offset in bios as well?


----------



## yzonker

Dijati said:


> PJVol is looking into it. Maybe he can change that. You can chcek the last Page in the Core Cycler Thread


You can paste the stringer it echo's in to the config file to get it to re-populate the input boxes. But I think due to some of what PJVol is saying in that post, it will fail at some point and give an error message. Then you have to revert to file back to the original.


----------



## Dijati

BHS1975 said:


> Do you have an offset in bios as well?


No Offset in Bios. Only -30


----------



## BHS1975

Dijati said:


> No Offset in Bios. Only -30


Oh ok yeah it's pretty crazy that this chip runs at the same temp as my tuned 5600x did at stock boost before It was sold. Although I did change the paste from AS5 to Thermal Grizzly.


----------



## MrHoof

Can somone else with AMD GPU confirm this? Resizable bar enabled seems to be impacting my CPU-Render score alot in SOTR benchmark.
Would recommend leaving it off if its not only happening for me.


Spoiler: Resizeable bar disabled max CPU-render 661

















Spoiler: Resizeable bar enabled max CPU-render 464


----------



## Taraquin

yzonker said:


> So for anyone wondering if they need to tune out that last bit out of their mem,
> 
> View attachment 2557844
> View attachment 2557845
> 
> 
> View attachment 2557846
> 
> 
> Bring on the B-die! Wait, what? Maybe I mislabeled my screenshots. LOL. Maybe there's still _something_ out there that this helps on....
> 
> View attachment 2557848
> View attachment 2557847
> 
> View attachment 2557850


It seems like the large L3 cache makes timings matter less, this was also observed going from Zen 2 to 3 where you typically gain 25% avg going from 3200cl16 xmp to 3800cl14 tight on Zen 2, but only 20% on Zen 3. It seems higher bandwith from speed is the key to 5800X3D, find highest working fclk and tune VDDP, VDD18 etc to go as high as you can with no/few WHEA19.


----------



## blu3dragon

Chris Ihao said:


> Hi guys. Got my brand new (what else) 5800x3d as an upgrade to my previous 3700x. Extremely happy with the performance result so far, which is mostly testing Red dead redemption 2 and TW: Warhammer 2, in addition to a few 3dmark tests. What an improvement.
> 
> However, using the stock cooler for the 3700x, the AMD Wraith Prism led, I noticed that the cpu started to reach some seriously hot temperatures in RDR2. That's with a gpu load of 100% on my RTX 3080. When it reached around 85c I didn't really feel comfortable anymore, so I went out and got myself a Noctua NH-D15 SE-AM4 yesterday.
> 
> As my ram chips dont allow for a push-push (middle fan) config, I tried going for a pull-pull config for the Noctua, but noticed that temps still get high (above 80c) during load in RDR2. Just a few degrees lower. I swapped to a single fan config for the Noctua, which doesn't make a huge difference, so I believe I'll be sticking with that config.
> 
> Although I guess I will have some peace of mind after getting the NH-D15 SE, I feel kind of disappointed in the performance, considering its 5 times larger and have a shiny mirror finish compared to the extremely rough base of the Wraith prism base (that has huge gaps). It also cost a dime, to put it like that. I feel that I did an ok job while seating the NH-D15 SE, and I used the included Noctua NTH1 thermal paste this time around.
> 
> My question is; does this sound "weird" to you guys? Should I try to re-seat the cooler, or does it sound about right considering the cpu, gpu and everything is working really hard while playing RDR2 in a real life situation? When stress testing with Aida64, I only reached 79c on the cpu during testing of about 15 minutes today. Thing is, due to my current setup, it's a real hassle for me to re-seat the Noctua, so I'm trying to convice myself I'm ok, and move on.
> 
> Oh, and I won't be overclocking this one. Never planned to, and after seeing how high it gets at stock settings, I'm even more convinced I won't be subjecting myself to the hassle.
> 
> Edit: Ouch. Turns out the temperatures during stress testing in aida64 is a lot higher, if I look at the individual core temps in afterburner. 91c. Sheesh. Thats on stock settings with the Noctua cooler. I guess the cpu temperature shown in the "systems stability test" of Aidia64 is not the temperature to watch.


5800x generally boosts up until it hits the stock 90C temp limit. By the sound of things the 5800x3d is a few degrees hotter for the same power limit. This means that your upgrade probably got you a little more performance rather than lower temps.
One thing you can do is to share your power and temps in hwinfo to compare to others.


----------



## BHS1975

Do you guys think it's worth lowering the bclk to get 1900 fclk to work instead of 1866?


----------



## tcclaviger

CO is not available on board bios for most/anyone, it is adjustable by using the PBO2 Tuner application linked in post #13.

It is going to be hotter than other Zen 3, that's a given. The heat transfer within the chip itself is worse than the others improved coolers will only help a little for most.

No it's not worth lowering bclk for FCLK increase. You're trading CPU pipeline and cache speed for internal data interconnect speed.

@MrHoof I mostly see that effect in that benchmark specifically. 3dmark does better with bar on and the games I've tested have mostly done better with it on. To get over 380avg in SotTR I need bar off. Will verify today outside SotTR.

Regarding WHEA 19s:
SOC OC mode via AMD OC Menu - no effect
LCLK DPM - no effect
LCLK set to 2111221112 or 2111121111 or auto no difference.
SOC at 1.05 = WHEA spew
SOC at 1.15 = 1 WHEA every 20 minutes
SOC at 1.165 + PLL 1.8 at 1.95 = no WHEA at 1933/1966. ~1 a minute at 2000.

That's as far as I've made it on WHEA correction. Seems it's a SOC/PLL voltage issue mostly, also, temperature seems to help. On Air or AIO I recommend the same as other Zen 3, 1900 if it will, 1866 if it won't do 1900. 

1866+bclk at 101.6 or 101.8 is a good spot for X3D, stays near 1900/3800, a little CPU speed boost, and should play nice with Ampere cards.


----------



## yzonker

tcclaviger said:


> To get over 380avg in SotTR I need bar off. Will verify today outside SotTR.


My highest score from SotTR that I posted was with reBar off. Turning it on got a slightly lower result (370fps).


----------



## Blameless

Since I've ruled out increasing the reference clock (this chip is going in a gaming-oriented build, but gaming isn't all it's going to do...stability and data integrity always take first priority) and anything over 1900 FCLK is proving virtually impossible to stabilize (1933 might work, but it will cost me an extra 10-15w of PPT limit because of the high PLL and SoC that it needs), I'm targeting the absolute lowest voltages and greatest negative CO offset I can make unconditionally stable.

Right now I'm testing -30 CO on all cores (no voltage offset and LLC 6, which is the most droop before I hit clock stretching at high load), 1025mV set SoC (LLC 3 for 1006.25mV load), 850mV DDP, 900mV DDG CCD, and 950mV DDG IOD on my ~90 dollar MSI B550M PRO-VDH using AGESA 1.2.0.6b firmware and older 5800X3D microcode.










So far I'm down to a PLL voltage of 1.65v set (~1.69 actual...it's VTT in HWiNFO) which, surprisingly enough hasn't caused any issues with 1900 FCLK or a relatively low ProcODT (no WHEA errors or memory training issues). Will test down to 1.6v out of curiosity, but that's lower than my ASRock board can be set, so I'm not going to fuss over it.

Once I'm sure it's stable and isn't going to degrade break (after increased temp/voltage testing), I'll lap it (IHS is a bit concave, as usual) and move it to my other system.


----------



## Chris Ihao

blu3dragon said:


> 5800x generally boosts up until it hits the stock 90C temp limit. By the sound of things the 5800x3d is a few degrees hotter for the same power limit. This means that your upgrade probably got you a little more performance rather than lower temps.
> One thing you can do is to share your power and temps in hwinfo to compare to others.


Thank you kindly for your reply. And yes, that is pretty much the conclusion I have reached here as well. Tried re-seating the cooler once more, and used Thermal grizzly this time. Also reversed the two top fans to see if it helped. I feel it might have ensured a tiny improvement to performance/throttling, just like you mention, but same temperatures. In other words, same as when going from the 3700x cooler, just to a lesser extent.

The upside to this is I realized the longer rtx 3080 I put in 6 months ago seemed to block almost all of the lower section of the cabinet, which I believe makes it beneficial to have the top fans pull in air instead.

Will consider posting some results, but to be honest I believe this will work out ok. Good to hear its normal, not at least.


----------



## Veii

Blameless said:


> So far I'm down to a PLL voltage of 1.65v set (~1.69 actual...it's VTT in HWiNFO) which, surprisingly enough hasn't caused any issues with 1900 FCLK or a relatively low ProcODT (no WHEA errors or memory training issues). Will test down to 1.6v out of curiosity, but that's lower than my ASRock board can be set, so I'm not going to fuss over it.


Latest ASRock bios (on stock) drops VDD18 (VTT) to 1.68v ~ on 1206B
You should be able to telemetry fake away SOC bump, to stay bellow 140E EDC limit ~ without hitting it on higher FCLK and ruining CO by voltage throttle
* make small steps, as FIT detects a big range // but i think you know that


----------



## MrHoof

Would recommend running Ycrunsher a bit N32/N64 crashed my pc a few times already but everytime i got a whea18 logged and adjusted the core by +5 started at all -30. 
HNT/VST are also good allcore test but make sure your cooling can keep up with thoose. 








Those passed N32/N64 so far for my chip.


----------



## Blameless

Veii said:


> Latest ASRock bios (on stock) drops VDD18 (VTT) to 1.68v ~ on 1206B
> You should be able to telemetry fake away SOC bump, to stay bellow 140E EDC limit ~ without hitting it on higher FCLK and ruining CO by voltage throttle
> * make small steps, as FIT detects a big range // but i think you know that


I wasn't aware that the default was that low on the ASRock. Makes sense though, given the behavior I'm seeing.

As for SoC voltage eating into things, I'm actually hitting the PPT limit before EDC limit under some loads.


----------



## LtMatt

BHS1975 said:


> Is that the same as setting an offset in bios and what offset is -15 and -30 equivalent to?


I presume so, don’t know for sure. I have a Dark hero and can adjust the voltage via an offset but I’ve always used curve optimiser.


----------



## Veii

Blameless said:


> As for SoC voltage eating into things, I'm actually hitting the PPT limit before EDC limit under some loads.


PPT limit was changable on my side ?
But SMU commands are fully refused & on old bioses results are g*rbage values
Soo suspicion that we might need to unlock it on 1206B first ,is not far off
Well rather "port over the option MSI accidentally exposed" // indirectly

I try fooling a bit with the microcode and it seems this (00/01) toggle let's it post but "hangs" and "requires CMOS reset"
* MC is loaded, CPU freezes








Old MC works without issues so far, but this is not a security patch & not something "unused" for B2
Either that, or MC is now checksum'd and i break CS
Overriding one or both 00A20xxxx MC's in bios, doesn't break capsule signature
Both are 15C0 long with minimum 40 (hex) FF spacing between microcodes for Vermeer
Sometimes (C0) spacing (more)

Trying now which bios restores boosting behavior and what module is missed
Technically you can replace A0/B0 microcode with 00A20120*4* B2 one, and X3D works on it ~ any Vermeer Ready Bios
Just boost doesn't yet


Veii said:


> PPT limit was changable on my side ?


You can force cTDP and Package power limit to 160, and change determism slider to Power instead Perf
That will push TDP and power orientation to these new limiters
Else PPT you should be able to override 
Only EDC hardcaps at 140 for me, but 135 works


----------



## Blameless

MrHoof said:


> Would recommend running Ycrunsher a bit N32/N64 crashed my pc a few times already but everytime i got a whea18 logged and adjusted the core by +5 started at all -30.
> HNT/VST are also good allcore test but make sure your cooling can keep up with thoose.
> View attachment 2557970
> 
> Those passed N32/N64 so far for my chip.
> View attachment 2557971


My sample is y-cruncher stable (mostly HNT, though I did a few loops of the others, without issue) at -30 on all cores at 1900 FCLK, though I'm not jacking up the reference clock.

HNT is a touch too warm to hold 4450MHz on my cooling though...it mostly levels off around 4375.



Veii said:


> PPT limit was changable on my side ?


I haven't been able to increase it on my MSI board, though I haven't tried anything fancy. At the voltages I need for 1900 FCLK temperature is the first limit I reach.



Veii said:


> Technically you can replace A0/B0 microcode with 00A20120*4* B2 one, and X3D works on it ~ any Vermeer Ready Bios
> Just boost doesn't yet


Yes, this is what I've been doing, replacing either the 1205 MC in BIOS versions that support X3D. For older BIOSes that predate any X3D support, I've been replacing whatever CPU the 00A2F00 CPUID is, since it's the same size and isn't used by any of the CPUs I own.


----------



## tcclaviger

Nice on the low power config blameless, seems a good setup for like a living room gaming PC etc.

Regarding BAR, it is....mostly a wash I'm finding. Trades a tiny bit of CPU for GPU... Far less impactful than on other Zen CPUs.

I guess, if totally GPU bound, BAR on, otherwise BAR off makes more sense? I mean, the difference in most things is tiny.

1080extreme superposition - 0.03% delta off/on
Timespy - bar on is +200 GPU score -100 CPU score vs off.

SotTR is an edge case at 1080lowest.

That's kind of playing out all over that I'm checking.

Memory based improvements in 3d are so far only really showing up in things that load on the fly, games where everything is loaded ahead of time don't really seem to care, so UE5 should be a good candidate for testing scaling of memory speed. Sadly I've nothing that uses UE5.


----------



## tcclaviger

Sorry for double, separate topic....

For multiplier control, C8E bios with 1203 patch, and 1205 has multiplier in CBS still. When trying it, system bootloops on CPU codes. Seems like an internal lock was applied with the 1206"b" Asus bios or was present from factory.


----------



## Blameless

tcclaviger said:


> Sorry for double, separate topic....
> 
> For multiplier control, C8E bios with 1203 patch, and 1205 has multiplier in CBS still. When trying it, system bootloops on CPU codes. Seems like an internal lock was applied with the 1206"b" Asus bios or was present from factory.


On my MSI board, when using older firmware that has the multipler controls still present, changes to it were just ignored. It would boot fine, the bios itself, and Windows Task Manager, would report the multiplier I set, but it was actually stuck at the non-boost 34x according to benchmark results and HWiNFO.


----------



## EastCoast

Not an exact but good enough to gauge how well the 5800x3d is doing.


----------



## LtMatt

EastCoast said:


> Not an exact but good enough to gauge how well the 5800x3d is doing.


That's my video and system running the 5800X3D and 6900 XTXH Toxic Extreme.


----------



## bmagnien

tcclaviger said:


> CO is not available on board bios for most/anyone, it is adjustable by using the PBO2 Tuner application linked in post #13.
> 
> It is going to be hotter than other Zen 3, that's a given. The heat transfer within the chip itself is worse than the others improved coolers will only help a little for most.
> 
> No it's not worth lowering bclk for FCLK increase. You're trading CPU pipeline and cache speed for internal data interconnect speed.
> 
> @MrHoof I mostly see that effect in that benchmark specifically. 3dmark does better with bar on and the games I've tested have mostly done better with it on. To get over 380avg in SotTR I need bar off. Will verify today outside SotTR.
> 
> Regarding WHEA 19s:
> SOC OC mode via AMD OC Menu - no effect
> LCLK DPM - no effect
> LCLK set to 2111221112 or 2111121111 or auto no difference.
> SOC at 1.05 = WHEA spew
> SOC at 1.15 = 1 WHEA every 20 minutes
> SOC at 1.165 + PLL 1.8 at 1.95 = no WHEA at 1933/1966. ~1 a minute at 2000.
> 
> That's as far as I've made it on WHEA correction. Seems it's a SOC/PLL voltage issue mostly, also, temperature seems to help. On Air or AIO I recommend the same as other Zen 3, 1900 if it will, 1866 if it won't do 1900.
> 
> 1866+bclk at 101.6 or 101.8 is a good spot for X3D, stays near 1900/3800, a little CPU speed boost, and should play nice with Ampere cards.


I was able to boot at BCLK 102.8, FCLK 1850.5, Freq 3701. However my CPU won’t boost at all. Stuck at 3459mhz and 1.006v. I enabled force OC mode and global c state control and core performance boost. I’m on an Asus x570-I so I don’t have the voltage suspension options. Am I missing a setting to change so that my CPU is able to boost?

thanks!


----------



## tcclaviger

bmagnien said:


> I was able to boot at BCLK 102.8, FCLK 1850.5, Freq 3701. However my CPU won’t boost at all. Stuck at 3459mhz and 1.006v. I enabled force OC mode and global c state control and core performance boost. I’m on an Asus x570-I so I don’t have the voltage suspension options. Am I missing a setting to change so that my CPU is able to boost?
> 
> thanks!


From what you've posted, it should be working. I was unaware that board had "force oc mode disabled" option, and somewhat surprised it does. What AGESA version are you on and was it boosting at 100 bclk?


----------



## bmagnien

tcclaviger said:


> From what you've posted, it should be working. What AGESA version are you on and was it boosting at 100 bclk?


1206b and boosting just fine before changing bclk above 100. Previous setting were just standard bclk 100, 1900 fclk, 3800cl14


----------



## tcclaviger

Ok so confirmed functional bios. 

No external clockgen, no "force OC mode disabled" functionality.

EDIT:
Looking into your board, it appears it doesn't have an external clock gen for BCLK. In short, afaik, BCLK OC will never work on it 

Confirmed here:

"
Cubelia
Nope,on hardware level these boards don't provide eCLK feature as they lack external clock generator.(which C6H/E and C7H did have)

"

REDDIT Thread for your board


----------



## IamVoo

tcclaviger said:


> Nice on the low power config blameless, seems a good setup for like a living room gaming PC etc.
> 
> Regarding BAR, it is....mostly a wash I'm finding. Trades a tiny bit of CPU for GPU... Far less impactful than on other Zen CPUs.
> 
> I guess, if totally GPU bound, BAR on, otherwise BAR off makes more sense? I mean, the difference in most things is tiny.
> 
> 1080extreme superposition - 0.03% delta off/on
> Timespy - bar on is +200 GPU score -100 CPU score vs off.
> 
> SotTR is an edge case at 1080lowest.
> 
> That's kind of playing out all over that I'm checking.
> 
> Memory based improvements in 3d are so far only really showing up in things that load on the fly, games where everything is loaded ahead of time don't really seem to care, so UE5 should be a good candidate for testing scaling of memory speed. Sadly I've nothing that uses UE5.


What are the settings for SOTTR that everyone has agreed upon running? I've been doing the Highest setting at 720. There are a few options you can turn up even higher but I'm not for sake of replicability. I got 255 with just XMP 3200/cl14 4x8gb bdie single rank and then with a tight tune of 3600/cl14 it only improved scores to 258, I ran multiple times to confirm.
The thing that confused me was that in none of these tests am I GPU bound so clearly if others are getting 370+ fps then higher graphics settings do indeed cause a cpu/memory bottleneck. I was also surprised at how little a difference the memory overclock made. I've had a 1600, 3600, and a 5800x on this board in the past (570 tuf gaming plus) and memory tunes gave waaaaay more fps increase.
Bar was on for these tests if that matters.


----------



## bmagnien

tcclaviger said:


> Ok so confirmed functional bios.
> 
> No external clockgen, no "force OC mode disabled" functionality.
> 
> EDIT:
> Looking into your board, it appears it doesn't have an external clock gen for BCLK. In short, afaik, BCLK OC will never work on it
> 
> Confirmed here:
> 
> "
> Cubelia
> Nope,on hardware level these boards don't provide eCLK feature as they lack external clock generator.(which C6H/E and C7H did have)
> 
> "
> 
> REDDIT Thread for your board


Damn - well thanks for doing the research on that. I appreciate it. I could've sworn there were other Asus x570-I users in this thread having some success (@MrHoof ? )


----------



## tcclaviger

Some testing was done for Star Citizen, a notoriously CPU bound game, to see if BAR is a net gain or loss. It has portions that are GPU bound as well, so it kind of represents a game with both CPU and GPU bottlenecks depending on area. I'll be playing BAR enabled, if nothing else, for the frame time consistency observed in the 2nd and 3rd graph.


----------



## Veii

tcclaviger said:


> I guess, if totally GPU bound, BAR on, otherwise BAR off makes more sense? I mean, the difference in most things is tiny.


To my experience
BAR mode synchonizes GPU frametime with CPU frametime
It can result in more FPS, but once CPU is unstable or too slow,, it will pull the GPU down
Once GPU OC is unstable, it will pull the CPU down

It's best visible on 3D Mark
Timespy or Port royal , as little sharp-teeth frequency drops


tcclaviger said:


> For multiplier control, C8E bios with 1203 patch, and 1205 has multiplier in CBS still. When trying it, system bootloops on CPU codes


Which code ?
15,17,55 (Test CMOS) all belong to Microcode lock even after post. Initialization Lock
Code 04 belongs to PCH lock, CPU refused to initialize


tcclaviger said:


> Ok so confirmed functional bios.
> 
> No external clockgen, no "force OC mode disabled" functionality











While this technically exists
It lacks Clockgen on the board.
Soo Asynchronus Mode "is loaded" but never applied
ASUS should have put one on the C8F - shame. Block is not even nickel plated but pure copper inside. Corrosion expected
ASUS's value hirarchy is odd, only 40% is overritable
Most goes through ext controller and needs a different type of enforcement
I like the potential options as an idea, but reality is more than bothersome working with it. Bios mods are strongly required
Tho Cudo's on flashback actually doing their job, (except for 2 digit minutes)
~ unlike Gigabyte's which does have an DeviceID check and forces me to buy a CH431 now (EVC died)


----------



## tcclaviger

Will check the looping codes to verify, as I recall: 15, 57, e5...have never seen the exact behavior before.

C8F was, unfortunately, a rushed to market money grab. They should have held off and integrates DOCS on it, would've sold me one ages ago if they had done so. They really need to get away from Bitspower as their partner....


----------



## Veii

tcclaviger said:


> Will check the looping codes to verify, as I recall: 15, 57, e5...have never seen the exact behavior before.
> 
> C8F was, unfortunately, a rushed to market money grab. They should have held off and integrates DOCS on it, would've sold me one ages ago if they had done so. They really need to get away from Bitspower as their partner....


Blocks where EK
But EK has changed couple of times. Maybe Old EK was Bitspower, but usally BP or TouchAqua where decent.
Want to use VUE fluid, can have everything pure nickel non plated - but this block is bothersome. Soo will need a fake look for it with memory together, else copper will corrode it. Brass is equally worse with pure Nickel

Anywho,
I saw, but it's on ASUS
The board is actually quite good ~ if you silence the whiny PCH fan that idles at 58°
But the reputation on it is soo bad and i can see why.
The bios is simply - unfinished.
But it's equal to the C8E, just "unfinished".
Soo much work required, but i guess ~ we have to get back the option for X3D soo , i guess it has to be done

Soo many important memory timings simply not visible to people.
Important impedances for memOC all on "prediction base" yet prediction is a mess.
Sad sad


----------



## bmagnien

Veii said:


> View attachment 2558006
> 
> While this technically exists
> It lacks Clockgen on the board.
> Soo Asynchronus Mode "is loaded" but never applied
> ASUS should have put one on the C8F - shame. Block is not even nickel plated but pure copper inside. Corrosion expected
> ASUS's value hirarchy is odd, only 40% is overritable
> Most goes through ext controller and needs a different type of enforcement
> I like the potential options as an idea, but reality is more than bothersome working with it. Bios mods are strongly required
> Tho Cudo's on flashback actually doing their job, (except for 2 digit minutes)
> ~ unlike Gigabyte's which does have an DeviceID check and forces me to buy a CH431 now (EVC died)


Excuse my ignorance but didn't really follow this. Are you saying there's a way to get BCLK above 100 to boost on an x570-I or just confirming that it's not possible due to no external clock gen? Thanks


----------



## tcclaviger

I was mistaken, is exactly as blameless experienced. AGESA 1205 Reports 4000 top section of bios, but ratio is 34x, windows reflects 34x and performance confirms running at 34x 

Even voltage didn't apply, I set at 1.15v and 40x.


----------



## Veii

bmagnien said:


> Excuse my ignorance but didn't really follow this. Are you saying there's a way to get BCLK above 100 to boost on an x570-I or just confirming that it's not possible due to no external clock gen? Thanks


The later one
The option is there, but the chip doesn't exist on my board
Soo also likely not on the X570I


tcclaviger said:


> I was mistaken, is exactly as blameless experienced. AGESA 1205 Reports 4000 top section of bios, but ratio is 34x, windows reflects 34x and performance confirms running at 34x
> 
> Even voltage didn't apply, I set at 1.15v and 40x.
> View attachment 2558011


Somebody should check that on linux
But it tries to apply, just get's refused
"command rejected"

You could try if 5ghz at 1v applies
If no, then it might be windows too
My testing environment is taken fully from the net, on an old windows
soo no OTA update or OTA microcode injection ability by AMD - yet it shows the same behavior

Either windows doesn't know how to read it (unlikely)
Or SMU reports g*rbage, which i could see ~ hence it reached 1million ghz and SOC draws 500W
Values are wrong, targets are wrong soo readouts and functions do not work although tried to be applied
Same as it was with a "too new bios & cezanne"
Full +500MHz Boost override for core & gfx exists and "tries to be applied"
But is refused as the IDs missmatch and are not aligned

Bios can try to set it , and will set it - but it will not do what it has to do
target ID is just different ~ soo for me everything beyond 175Mhz was refused , as the scale only worked on Vermeer and not Cezanne
Here it's the same again
I can inject and modify powerstates, even when boost doesn't exist (working on this atm)
But it doesn't matter ~ because SMU has a reject X filtered list of commands ~ option. And till this toggle is not brought back into the bios and enabled , no SMU commands will pass through
Non that are listed as "low level"

Restoring/Injecting foreign options is the last thing i wanted to do ~ but it seems mandatory , as lock is default enabled (takes far to much time)
And disabling (enabling OC) passes, but is rejected.
No bios option will do anything that is low level, till this lock is not lifted
Maybe we can use RU Tool to live change it, if it's not read-only. Just needs time

RU TOOL can list but sadly not change MSR values
That is, if SETUP_VAR has access at all

EDIT:
Bioses are just a Database of Mailbox and NVRAM values
It's a visual GUI, nothing else really 
It's also a control interface for On-PCB chips like most ASUS boards have now ~ ext voltage controllers
But for everyone else, and also here ~ it's just a database
You don't need to have the option visible in the bios, to enforce it ~ but so also doesn't active options have to do anything at all , if they target something different/wrong


----------



## Blameless

Dropped PLL/VTT all the way to 1.6v set (~1.638 reported) and got one WHEA bus/interconnect error after an hour of y-cruncher HNT. I'm also getting intermittent memory training failure below 32 ohm proc ODT while PLL/VTT is below 1.68v or so. At 30 ohm vDIMM can compensate, but once I pair this CPU with my B-die, I'm going to need to keep vDIMM as low as possible to keep the memory cool, so 32 ohm will probably be the sweet spot, again. This was all at -30 CO, on all cores.

HNT is a strange test, only one where I'm TDC limited before PPT or EDC. Always been good for finding FCLK and memory errors though.


----------



## yzonker

Still seeing the small loss in PR score. Saw the same thing in TSE. But the higher framerate benches like TS and Firestrike improved slightly as might be expected.

PR scores, 

5800x3D, 









I scored 16 036 in Port Royal


AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com





5800x,









I scored 16 095 in Port Royal


AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## tcclaviger

Seems consistent with what I'm seeing in almost purely GPU constrained benchmarks. Cannot match my 1080ex superposition score done on 5950x...but that was with a not "stuck in 8x PCIe" GPU so...I dunno.


----------



## BHS1975

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D Will Get Overclocking - WinBuzzer


New information suggests AMD is making last-minute changes to the Ryzen 7 5800X3D to provide official overclocking.




winbuzzer.com


----------



## LazyGamer

Welp, this adventure just got a lot more interesting!

I'm now wondering where they'll set the limits - or move them to, I guess?


----------



## BHS1975

LazyGamer said:


> Welp, this adventure just got a lot more interesting!
> 
> I'm now wondering where they'll set the limits - or move them to, I guess?


Probably just the CO in bios with no boost adjustment.


----------



## tcclaviger

Look at the date. It was a leak that arrived after some of us had received our X3Ds and started publishing certain routes to manipulate were left open. Standard corporate marketing "leak" when publicly discredited.

For anyone with Asus Crosshair ...install AI Suite 3 (it actually kills me a little inside typing that). It has a use again.


Can't POST beyond 102 BCLK? No problem, post at 102, adjust up using AIsuite, welcome to any BCLK your CPU will be stable at.
Vcore adjustment in AI Suite will be + offset if you set it to offset in BIOS.

Cake...check. Eating it....check. GG.

Things to remember:

Voltage requirements will change
Ensure you've picked a memory strap appropriate for the raised clock set in AIsuite3 TPU
AIDA needs to be restarted to register changes. If you're seeing increased RAM bandwidth but no CPU performance gains....set Global Cstats to enabled in AMD CBS. Then ensure you're not clock stretching.

Happily buzzing along at 4741 single again 
6800/645 cpuz.

Also didn't trust any of the voltage read outs with all this fsckrry going on and a fragile CPU so a little hardwire to fan header and some gauge calibration later, I have the most accurate possible CPU voltages in real time with no bios/OS fiddling (it's temporary)....


----------



## Zeryth

tcclaviger said:


> For anyone with Asus Crosshair ...install AI Suite 3 (it actually kills me a little inside typing that). It has a use again.


AI suite is so goddam horrible it uses 10% my cpu at times, would it be really worth it? I can imagine that all of the gains you get from bclk will just be eaten by AI suite. You'd probably have to run a few benchmarks.


----------



## tcclaviger

Doing that now. It doesn't use much tbh, less than 1% active time, but it doesn't need to stay running, just open long enough to change bclk, then close.

You could make a batch file to close and disable the services.

The shutdown/restart windows using a batch file that reenables them so they're up when you reboot.

The gains are real. New SotTR PB at 388 fps. I'm fighting window inefficiency elsewhere though, had to reinstall tonight and something's....weird about this install...might be win10 version difference actually showing a difference.

Scoring 13500 in timespy CPU tests with bar on, so 13700ish with bar off. Sadly the 3d portion is...not cooperating tonight.

Any progress at all on CPU is a win though, 3d I can work easier, getting bclk back up to 107ish (109.6 ideally) is what I'm more focused on.


----------



## Blameless

BHS1975 said:


> Probably just the CO in bios with no boost adjustment.


Better than nothing.

Honestly, if they're really only concerned with increased failure rates, they should unlock everything except positive voltage adjustments and increases to power/current/scalar limits.


----------



## tcclaviger

Blameless said:


> Better than nothing.
> 
> Honestly, if they're really only concerned with increased failure rates, they should unlock everything except positive voltage adjustments and increases to power/current/scalar limits.


Absolutely! The chip is such a good choice for a low power build as you're doing and having full control to trim things down here and there would help that. I'm sure you're not the only person thinking that way either. 

60 watts max, 40 typical while playing Star Citizen is absolutely miserly and I'm not pulling out power like you are.


----------



## tcclaviger

So it is working, these scores don't just happen without changing CPU speed, there was zero headroom left before I started messing with AISuite again. Suspect my windows issue impacting 3d performance is impacting the whole system, 1t 3dmark should be higher than 936. TS is reBAR enabled with nvidia inspector, so forced on, at 102.8 I was getting 13120 ish.

So there it is, there is room to go up even with a pissy GPU.


----------



## yzonker

tcclaviger said:


> Look at the date. It was a leak that arrived after some of us had received our X3Ds and started publishing certain routes to manipulate were left open. Standard corporate marketing "leak" when publicly discredited.
> 
> For anyone with Asus Crosshair ...install AI Suite 3 (it actually kills me a little inside typing that). It has a use again.
> 
> 
> Can't POST beyond 102 BCLK? No problem, post at 102, adjust up using AIsuite, welcome to any BCLK your CPU will be stable at.
> Vcore adjustment in AI Suite will be + offset if you set it to offset in BIOS.
> 
> Cake...check. Eating it....check. GG.
> 
> Things to remember:
> 
> Voltage requirements will change
> Ensure you've picked a memory strap appropriate for the raised clock set in AIsuite3 TPU
> AIDA needs to be restarted to register changes. If you're seeing increased RAM bandwidth but no CPU performance gains....set Global Cstats to enabled in AMD CBS. Then ensure you're not clock stretching.
> 
> Happily buzzing along at 4741 single again
> 6800/645 cpuz.
> 
> Also didn't trust any of the voltage read outs with all this fsckrry going on and a fragile CPU so a little hardwire to fan header and some gauge calibration later, I have the most accurate possible CPU voltages in real time with no bios/OS fiddling (it's temporary)....
> View attachment 2558041


So is AIsuite changing bclk without increasing clocks on PCIE, SATA, etc...? How is it different than changing it in the bios?


----------



## domdtxdissar

First boot with my 2209 PGS
Dont seem hard to cool at all compared to a 5950x @ above 300ppt..

Getting 67 degrees max load-temp while running Cinebench r23 at all stock settings -> 14948 points







Onwards to check max infinity fabric on this sample 

_edit_
Seems to be running my CL13 1900/3800 5950x memory settings just fine ->aida mem 55.6ns latency in a somewhat bloated windows install
Also with -30 allcore CO i'm getting 58 degrees max load-temp while running Cinebench r23 -> 15181 points








Lets push for above 2000:4000


----------



## Monsicek

Veii said:


> Latest ASRock bios (on stock) drops VDD18 (VTT) to 1.68v ~ on 1206B


I was not able to find VDD18/VTT/PLL in my Asrock X570 Steel Legend BIOS that would alter this. It is reads 1.68V in HWInfo as you suggest. Anyone with Asrock board could guide me where to look?


----------



## xR00Tx

Zeryth said:


> AI suite is so goddam horrible it uses 10% my cpu at times, would it be really worth it? I can imagine that all of the gains you get from bclk will just be eaten by AI suite. You'd probably have to run a few benchmarks.


You could also use Asus TurboV Core instead of AI Suite to Bclk OC. Much lighter.


----------



## revthejedi

ASRock X570 micro ITX doesn't allow for any tuning besides ram voltages and bclk. The 3D runs about as hot as my 5800X, I was hoping it would be cooler - also I badly need curve optimizer.


----------



## LtMatt

domdtxdissar said:


> First boot with my 2209 PGS
> Dont seem hard to cool at all compared to a 5950x @ above 300ppt..
> 
> Getting 67 degrees max load-temp while running Cinebench r23 at all stock settings -> 14948 points
> View attachment 2558085
> 
> Onwards to check max infinity fabric on this sample
> 
> _edit_
> Seems to be running my CL13 1900/3800 5950x memory settings just fine ->aida mem 55.6ns latency in a somewhat bloated windows install
> Also with -30 allcore CO i'm getting 58 degrees max load-temp while running Cinebench r23 -> 15181 points
> View attachment 2558086
> 
> 
> Lets push for above 2000:4000


What memory DIMMS are you using?


----------



## Clukos

domdtxdissar said:


> First boot with my 2209 PGS
> Dont seem hard to cool at all compared to a 5950x @ above 300ppt..
> 
> Getting 67 degrees max load-temp while running Cinebench r23 at all stock settings -> 14948 points
> View attachment 2558085
> 
> Onwards to check max infinity fabric on this sample
> 
> _edit_
> Seems to be running my CL13 1900/3800 5950x memory settings just fine ->aida mem 55.6ns latency in a somewhat bloated windows install
> Also with -30 allcore CO i'm getting 58 degrees max load-temp while running Cinebench r23 -> 15181 points
> View attachment 2558086
> 
> 
> Lets push for above 2000:4000


Nice scores! Where can I find PBO2 Tuner?


----------



## tcclaviger

yzonker said:


> So is AIsuite changing bclk without increasing clocks on PCIE, SATA, etc...? How is it different than changing it in the bios?


It still impacts other clocks. The GPU won't latch the signal at post. By doing it after the signal has synced up it bypasses the sync between GPU and CPU letting you go further.

105 is instant system hang for me, but I'd rather hit a 105 wall than a 102.8 wall 



xR00Tx said:


> You could also use Asus TurboV Core instead of AI Suite to Bclk OC. Much lighter.


Thanks I'll have a look at it. I've avoided Asus software since the AIsuite 2 to 3 "upgrade". It's been...many moons.

EDIT: Confirmed TurboV Core is working as expected and a much lighter non-pcaids ridden app.

Service dependecies are asComSvc and AsusCertService only, all other Asus services can go.


----------



## Veii

tcclaviger said:


> EDIT: Confirmed TurboV Core is working as expected and a much lighter non-pcaids ridden app.
> 
> Service dependecies are asComSvc and AsusCertService only, all other Asus services can go.








ASUS Tools - Google Drive







drive.google.com




Armory Crate uninstall tool and then this TurboV 1.10.07 
If you have a newer version, pls upload


----------



## domdtxdissar

domdtxdissar said:


> First boot with my 2209 PGS
> Dont seem hard to cool at all compared to a 5950x @ above 300ppt..
> 
> Getting 67 degrees max load-temp while running Cinebench r23 at all stock settings -> 14948 points
> View attachment 2558085
> 
> Onwards to check max infinity fabric on this sample
> 
> _edit_
> Seems to be running my CL13 1900/3800 5950x memory settings just fine ->aida mem 55.6ns latency in a somewhat bloated windows install
> Also with -30 allcore CO i'm getting 58 degrees max load-temp while running Cinebench r23 -> 15181 points
> View attachment 2558086
> 
> 
> Lets push for above 2000:4000


While i cant eliminate the whea-errors, but atleast it seems like i dont have negative scaling going above 1900 like with my 5950x 
(running win11 so whea-suppressor is not a option)

Have done some runs in linpack xtreme and y-cruncher at different synced infinity fabric speeds: (all with same thrown together memory timings)

1900:
Linpack extended 8gb = 349.4 average gflops
Y-cruncher 2.5b = 95.231s








1966:
Linpack extended 8gb = 347.5 average gflops
Y-cruncher 2.5b = 94.966s








2000:
Linpack extended 8gb = 349.1 average gflops
Y-cruncher 2.5b = 94.377s








2033:
Linpack extended 8gb = 349.9 average gflops
Y-cruncher 2.5b = 93.764s








Getting these numbers in aida with memory profile from above:









2066 wont boot atm, require more tweaking.. Think i will start on tightening memory timings atm.



LtMatt said:


> What memory DIMMS are you using?














Clukos said:


> Nice scores! Where can I find PBO2 Tuner?


First page in this thread i believe.

_edit_
T1 setuptime, GDM disable


----------



## Dijati

domdtxdissar said:


> First boot with my 2209 PGS
> Dont seem hard to cool at all compared to a 5950x @ above 300ppt..
> 
> Getting 67 degrees max load-temp while running Cinebench r23 at all stock settings -> 14948 points
> View attachment 2558085
> 
> Onwards to check max infinity fabric on this sample
> 
> _edit_
> Seems to be running my CL13 1900/3800 5950x memory settings just fine ->aida mem 55.6ns latency in a somewhat bloated windows install
> Also with -30 allcore CO i'm getting 58 degrees max load-temp while running Cinebench r23 -> 15181 points
> View attachment 2558086
> 
> 
> Lets push for above 2000:4000


The first screen is not stock for sure…. CB 23 without CO is about 125 Watts and you are drawing 107 Watts. Thats why youre Temps are so low. 

I got 73 degrees stock with 125 Watts and 15100 Points…
With -30 i got 54 degrees and 15200 Points at 93 Watts


----------



## MrHoof

Dijati said:


> The first screen is not stock for sure…. CB 23 without CO is about 125 Watts and you are drawing 107 Watts. Thats why youre Temps are so low.
> 
> I got 73 degrees stock with 125 Watts and 15100 Points…
> With -30 i got 54 degrees and 15200 Points at 93 Watts


look at core VID of 1.3v doms results are normaly very trustworthy.


----------



## Dijati

MrHoof said:


> look at core VID of 1.3v doms results are normaly very trustworthy.


im not saying that they are not. It just dosent make sense…


----------



## MrHoof

Would think comes down to the 1v soc voltage that saves a good amount power. That result is at 2133mhz ram Soc is using max 5w.


----------



## Dijati

MrHoof said:


> Would think comes down to the 1v soc voltage that saves a good amount power. That result is at 2133mhz ram.


yeah didnt even think about that… nice catch


----------



## tcclaviger

100 bclk 1900/3800 zero voltage tweaking with CO or offset and fixed soc at 1.15v, I get 15225 R23 and use 101 watts.

As the chip gets hotter VID for a given frequency increases, so does power, this is why CO works well on air cooled X3D but does kind of a whole bag of nothing for me, R23 peaks at 47c, p95 sse smallest at 64c.


----------



## yzonker

New PBO Tuner with command line support for those that haven't run across this post yet,









CoreCycler - tool for testing Curve Optimizer settings


I don't fully understand everything PJVol is saying, but adding a command line call would be all that is necessary, unless that just doesn't work for some reason. I don't know if it works or not because I don't know what command to call. I'd expect to be able to use rundll32...




www.overclock.net


----------



## PJVol

Can someone with an ASRock board check, if you can set PBO limits above default ones (i mean from Windows)?
On my Extreme4 I can override all but Fboostmax, but MSI obviously is against it (as well as other two big vendors)


----------



## Dijati

tcclaviger said:


> 100 bclk 1900/3800 zero voltage tweaking with CO or offset and fixed soc at 1.15v, I get 15225 R23 and use 101 watts.
> 
> As the chip gets hotter VID for a given frequency increases, so does power, this is why CO works well on air cooled X3D but does kind of a whole bag of nothing for me, R23 peaks at 47c, p95 sse smallest at 64c.


10 degrees water temp??? 😂


----------



## tcclaviger

Dijati said:


> 10 degrees water temp??? 😂


Lower 

In Fahrenheit, my "warm" config ATM.








Doing some clock stretching testing to find where it starts at 1.275 vcore.


----------



## Dijati

tcclaviger said:


> Lower
> 
> In Fahrenheit, my "warm" config ATM.
> View attachment 2558135


WoW 9 degrees water temp… Crazyyy… You have Moras outside? 😜


----------



## Blameless

Monsicek said:


> I was not able to find VDD18/VTT/PLL in my Asrock X570 Steel Legend BIOS that would alter this. It is reads 1.68V in HWInfo as you suggest. Anyone with Asrock board could guide me where to look?


OC Tweaker -> External Voltage and Loadline Calibration -> CPU VDD 1.8 voltage



Dijati said:


> The first screen is not stock for sure…. CB 23 without CO is about 125 Watts and you are drawing 107 Watts.


Cinebench is not a particularly heavy load and with the boost limits on these parts so low, there are bound to be samples that fall well short of 125w at stock.



MrHoof said:


> Would think comes down to the 1v soc voltage that saves a good amount power. That result is at 2133mhz ram Soc is using max 5w.


Also a good point.


----------



## Dijati

Blameless said:


> OC Tweaker -> External Voltage and Loadline Calibration -> CPU VDD 1.8 voltage
> 
> 
> 
> Cinebench is not a particularly heavy load and with the boost limits on these parts so low, there are bound to be samples that fall well short of 125w at stock.
> 
> 
> 
> Also a good point.


Well im happy that atleast -30 is stable so far with the Chip….


----------



## Taraquin

domdtxdissar said:


> First boot with my 2209 PGS
> Dont seem hard to cool at all compared to a 5950x @ above 300ppt..
> 
> Getting 67 degrees max load-temp while running Cinebench r23 at all stock settings -> 14948 points
> View attachment 2558085
> 
> Onwards to check max infinity fabric on this sample
> 
> _edit_
> Seems to be running my CL13 1900/3800 5950x memory settings just fine ->aida mem 55.6ns latency in a somewhat bloated windows install
> Also with -30 allcore CO i'm getting 58 degrees max load-temp while running Cinebench r23 -> 15181 points
> View attachment 2558086
> 
> 
> Lets push for above 2000:4000


Try to up VDD18, may fix WHEA19 spamming


----------



## domdtxdissar

Taraquin said:


> Try to up VDD18, may fix WHEA19 spamming


Have already maxed it out, mb wont allow me to set higher than 1.95 😇


domdtxdissar said:


> While i cant eliminate the whea-errors, but atleast it seems like i dont have negative scaling going above 1900 like with my 5950x
> (running win11 so whea-suppressor is not a option)
> 
> Have done some runs in linpack xtreme and y-cruncher at different synced infinity fabric speeds: (all with same thrown together memory timings)
> 
> 1900:
> Linpack extended 8gb = 349.4 average gflops
> Y-cruncher 2.5b = 95.231s
> View attachment 2558125
> 
> 
> 1966:
> Linpack extended 8gb = 347.5 average gflops
> Y-cruncher 2.5b = 94.966s
> View attachment 2558126
> 
> 
> 2000:
> Linpack extended 8gb = 349.1 average gflops
> Y-cruncher 2.5b = 94.377s
> View attachment 2558127
> 
> 
> 2033:
> Linpack extended 8gb = 349.9 average gflops
> Y-cruncher 2.5b = 93.764s
> View attachment 2558128
> 
> 
> Getting these numbers in aida with memory profile from above:
> View attachment 2558129
> 
> 
> 2066 wont boot atm, require more tweaking.. Think i will start on tightening memory timings atm.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2558130
> 
> 
> 
> First page in this thread i believe.
> 
> _edit_
> T1 setuptime, GDM disable
> View attachment 2558134


Seems like 2033MT/s is the tipping point for this cpu.. above this speed i'm clearly getting reduced scaling.


2066: (t2)
Linpack extended 8gb = 349.2 average gflops
Y-cruncher 2.5b = 96.755s








2100: (t2)
Linpack extended 8gb = 342.7 average gflops
Y-cruncher 2.5b = 101.177s








Can make pretty aida screens tho


----------



## Nighthog

Seems running 2:1 Ratio doesn't give you any benefits even doing something like 5100Mts.

CPU-Z Validation 5800X3D, 5100Mts 1900FCLK

A little disappointing going through all that effort to get it to perform but it refuses.
AIDA64 results are dismal.
Any extra FCLK does add quite a bit if you want to have WHEA party on the side to distract you from the performance.


----------



## tcclaviger

domdtxdissar said:


> Have already maxed it out, mb wont allow me to set higher than 1.95 😇
> 
> Seems like 2033MT/s is the tipping point for this cpu.. above this speed i'm clearly getting reduced scaling.
> 
> 
> 2066: (t2)
> Linpack extended 8gb = 349.2 average gflops
> Y-cruncher 2.5b = 96.755s
> View attachment 2558144
> 
> 
> 2100: (t2)
> Linpack extended 8gb = 342.7 average gflops
> Y-cruncher 2.5b = 101.177s
> View attachment 2558145
> 
> 
> Can make pretty aida screens tho
> View attachment 2558147


Think we have twins, very similar tipping points, 2033 for me shows very slight signs of regression, above shows clear. I found no benefit over 1.95 PLL, at 2.0 USB started dropping out.

Clock Stretching experiment yielding results:,

Have everything calibrated so R23 multi VID is 1.293v, avoids hitting FIT voltage speed reduction.
103.6 - no stretching.
103.8 - no gains, no losses, same as 103.6 scores.
104 - just a touch, shows a little regression from 103.6 scores.
104.2 clear signs and gets worse as clocks rise. 104.4, 104.6, 104.8 all regress further.
Looks like 15750/1540 are about the R23 sweet spot scores, which, coincidentally are reached with 103.6 and using 55:3 RAM strap lands right at 1900/3800 FCLK/MCLK WHEA free.

Tells me my 107.4 scores were stretching pretty hard, fine for benchmark scores not so much for daily.

I cannot stress enough, how helpful ZenPTMonitor is for this, whoever wrote it TYVM.


----------



## Monsicek

Blameless said:


> OC Tweaker -> External Voltage and Loadline Calibration -> CPU VDD 1.8 voltage


That's incorrect, I have tried that prior posting here. Option you talk about controls underlined voltage. One I would like to alter is selected. Stays around 1.68V even when CPU VDD is altered.

Thank you in advance.


----------



## LtMatt

domdtxdissar said:


> While i cant eliminate the whea-errors, but atleast it seems like i dont have negative scaling going above 1900 like with my 5950x
> (running win11 so whea-suppressor is not a option)
> 
> Have done some runs in linpack xtreme and y-cruncher at different synced infinity fabric speeds: (all with same thrown together memory timings)
> 
> 1900:
> Linpack extended 8gb = 349.4 average gflops
> Y-cruncher 2.5b = 95.231s
> View attachment 2558125
> 
> 
> 1966:
> Linpack extended 8gb = 347.5 average gflops
> Y-cruncher 2.5b = 94.966s
> View attachment 2558126
> 
> 
> 2000:
> Linpack extended 8gb = 349.1 average gflops
> Y-cruncher 2.5b = 94.377s
> View attachment 2558127
> 
> 
> 2033:
> Linpack extended 8gb = 349.9 average gflops
> Y-cruncher 2.5b = 93.764s
> View attachment 2558128
> 
> 
> Getting these numbers in aida with memory profile from above:
> View attachment 2558129
> 
> 
> 2066 wont boot atm, require more tweaking.. Think i will start on tightening memory timings atm.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2558130
> 
> 
> 
> First page in this thread i believe.
> 
> _edit_
> T1 setuptime, GDM disable
> View attachment 2558134


Great job! What’s the highest FCLK you can run without WHEA errors? I top out at 1900Mhz.


----------



## tcclaviger

If Dom's is like mine 1920ish will be the upper limit with absolutely zero errors.


----------



## MrHoof

My 5800x3d seems to be not the best if its true and some of you are actuly stable at -30 like blameless.
That was my Ycrunsher N32/N64 tests, every log entry I dropped the core by -5, my Core 3 is garbage tier.
All core loads seems to just use the VID request from Core 3 so my allcore voltage is kinda high for stock bclk :<
Air cooling U12a


Spoiler: whea18 logs

















Spoiler: ycrunsher 2.5b with curve in screenshot

















Spoiler: CB23


----------



## Veii

1967 tested again overshoots on FCLK effective to 2100+
And logically WHEA's
Its mindered if you boot up with higher VDD18 on old agesa

LN2 mode on asus forces 2.1v on VDD18
I wish they where not from PGS fab

Tried also to run 6250Mhz ^^'
Bios shows it, but its fake ~ OC mode is in disabled state on the sample and doesnt allow a change. Reads, Sets but refuses to apply becuase OC_Mode toggle is forbidden to change
The only positive thing i got, was pushing fixed voltage on it
1180 caps max VID at 1.0275 (allows CO down to -50 but one CO = 2mV)
1100A caps max VID at 1.3v

Testing further 
1100 didnt make firmware update (CO was old 4mV behaviour)
1180 did , SMU 56.37

Havent found old bios with boosting ability yet
At least setting CCX VID sticks beyond 1.3(5)v
But y-cruncher HNT & N64 on 1.02v push 3400 to 2725.
It hits instantly 90.8° on core and 58° on L3 cache

@PJVol would you be allowed to assist a bit in figuring why OC_Mode toggle is rejected ?
On old BIOSes
Target is correct but its rejected hence then nothing wants to work


----------



## Taraquin

domdtxdissar said:


> Have already maxed it out, mb wont allow me to set higher than 1.95 😇
> 
> Seems like 2033MT/s is the tipping point for this cpu.. above this speed i'm clearly getting reduced scaling.
> 
> 
> 2066: (t2)
> Linpack extended 8gb = 349.2 average gflops
> Y-cruncher 2.5b = 96.755s
> View attachment 2558144
> 
> 
> 2100: (t2)
> Linpack extended 8gb = 342.7 average gflops
> Y-cruncher 2.5b = 101.177s
> View attachment 2558145
> 
> 
> Can make pretty aida screens tho
> View attachment 2558147
> 
> View attachment 2558154


My guess is that you may have scaling above 2033 fclk if you up SOC\IOD to like 1.25V\1.15V, but probably not worth it


----------



## domdtxdissar

Taraquin said:


> My guess is that you may have scaling above 2033 fclk if you up SOC\IOD to like 1.25V\1.15V, but probably not worth it


Yeah maybe, but i will stick to 4066MT/s for now  
Doing semi stability testing on these settings atm








~430 whea over a 30min 1usmus testmem run


----------



## Clukos

This is what I got in y-cruncher.


----------



## Veii

Clukos said:


> This is what I got in y-cruncher.


Key combination 1-7-0 , 4 loops (72min), is for stability testing


----------



## MrHoof

Veii said:


> Key combination 1-7-0 , 4 loops (72min), is for stability testing


For fast testing i really recommend 1-8-14-15-0, after that go for all tests. If you look at my logs at Page 20 took about 30 minutes to crash 11 times.


----------



## Blameless

Monsicek said:


> That's incorrect, I have tried that prior posting here. Option you talk about controls underlined voltage. One I would like to alter is selected. Stays around 1.68V even when CPU VDD is altered.
> 
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> View attachment 2558156


I'm not sure what that VTT reading is.

CPU VDD 1.8 is read as "VTT" on my MSI boards my HWiNFO. They are reported as VIN2 and VIN3 on my ASRock board, with no setting that controls the latter. Neither are reported by my Gigabyte board.

I've been adjusting "CPU VDD 1.8".


----------



## tcclaviger

One drawback to using turbov core for OCing....

Timer is off so certain benches come up as invalid. Fine for daily use, won't fly for BM scores in databases.


----------



## Blameless

MrHoof said:


> For fast testing i really recommend 1-7-14-15-0, after that go for all tests. If you look at my logs at Page 20 took about 30 minutes to crash 11 times.


I'm mostly running HNT (1-6-8-17-0), but occasstionally mix it up. Haven't seen a single crash in y-cruncher, nor any red WHEA error 18s.

I eventually hit a single corrected bus/interconnect error while at sub-1.7v PLL after 12 hours and am currently finding the floor that will pass 24+ hours HNT with -30 on all cores. My SoC or VDDGs could be a little low...I'll raise those if ~1.74v PLL shows any signs of problems.

What core voltages are you seeing with snapshot polling enabled in HWiNFO during HNT?


----------



## Nighthog

PBO2 Tuner with *-30* Curve Optimizer all core:

CPU-Z M: *6538.3*points S: *631.7*points (Validation)
Cinebench R23: *15182/1487*

vs none:
CPU-Z M: *6352* S:* 632*points (Validation)
Cinebench R23: *14665/1485*

It only improves the Multi-thread scores. Single thread is hitting the frequency limits allowed anyway.


----------



## tcclaviger

632 stock speed, very nice efficiency.

Wish I understood why mine likes to bounce around 45.2-45.4 instead of just pegging 45.5 single.


----------



## Alemancio

Question, if you've already found a way to use PBO2 on this CPU and bring vCore down, why cant we OC it? AFAIK AMD only locked it due to us not using >1.35vCore, no? Shouldnt we able to use higher multi if we can downvolt it with PBO2?


----------



## Veii

Alemancio said:


> Question, if you've already found a way to use PBO2 on this CPU and bring vCore down, why cant we OC it? AFAIK AMD only locked it due to us not using >1.35vCore, no? Shouldnt we able to use higher multi if we can downvolt it with PBO2?


We can't use any custom multi, outside of the default
because OC_Mode defaults on our samples to "disabled"
There is a toggle leaked in MSI's 1206B (A) bios which was removed
It "allows SMU commands" to pass, or rather allows changes








Hence this option is effectively defaulting to disabled and then removed from firmware on both sides (Vendor and then AMD AGESA blob)
Porting "foreign options" back on a signed AGESA blob, and getting the menu order right ~ is not easy. // but it seems we have to do this

Yet till this toggle is not enabled, and default OC_Mode toggle back to enabled
No custom multiplier or anything OC related will function
PBO only moves in the range AMD has specified for it

Hence there is no FMAX extend (there is but it can not work) , because IDs are not supplied
Nothing precision boost related can work out

The issue is bigger
It's that forbidden toggle which disallows anything that falls under "overclocking" in AMD's API
This has to resolve first, and the rest is easy ~ even if the options are removed

EDIT:
Soo because our batch seems to not be early enough, all of them even on oldest BIOS
are defaulting to a locked state ~ semi locked but two way, soo "annoying" just not impossible
All aside that AMD was lazy and didn't fix their WHEA firmware issue of things overdriving beyond max value & so WHEA #19
One has to hope that huge L3 offsets 2:1 mode penalty of 10ns (Gear2)


----------



## yzonker

Great gaming cpu, but sucks for benching. I swapped back and forth again to confirm. Not only does it score lower, I can't OC the VRAM quite as high. I really thought that must be some issue with the 3090, but nope. I actually beat my high score on the 5800x that I posted previously, 









I scored 16 107 in Port Royal


AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com





I have to drop 50-100mhz on the VRAM to get PR to complete using the 5800x3D. 

Been seeing others on reddit report lower scores too.


----------



## LtMatt

tcclaviger said:


> If Dom's is like mine 1920ish will be the upper limit with absolutely zero errors.


Yes mine starts producing WHEAs around then too.


----------



## tcclaviger

yzonker said:


> Great gaming cpu, but sucks for benching. I swapped back and forth again to confirm. Not only does it score lower, I can't OC the VRAM quite as high. I really thought that must be some issue with the 3090, but nope. I actually beat my high score on the 5800x that I posted previously,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 16 107 in Port Royal
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to drop 50-100mhz on the VRAM to get PR to complete using the 5800x3D.
> 
> Been seeing others on reddit report lower scores too.


Observed the same issue in superposition 1080ex. Same GPU clocks, same RAM clocks, I'm at 14715 while on 5950x 14980(I think it was 80). Looking at close analysis of the runs, there's a couple spots where both dip, but x3d dips 3fps lower. Overall it's only a touch more than 1 fps difference, but for scores it matters.

1080ex and PR are both heavily GPU bound though so it makes sense in a way. TS CPU shows improvement vs equally clocked 5800x from what I can tell on top 100.

Seems it's the areas where raw speed wins the day vs cache size.

Also...this makes me chuckle..


----------



## MNKyDeth

Alright, I think I may need some clarification on this whea error stuff and other clarifications.
When getting whea errors is it something to be concerned about?

Using a Gigabyte Aorus Extreme, I am assuming this board does not have a clockgen for the nvme pci-e devices, correct?

I am currently using a Noctua D-15 as my cooler. I have water cooling but waiting for the 6950xt's to come before putting this cpu under water. So, mostly just focusing on ram OC atm.

My focus currently is 1900fclk. My chip can boot without issue at 2000 however I get whea errors. I then started moving up the base clock. Currently at 104 base clock and 1833MCLK so the ram is at 1906MHz.

I have Samsung B-Die G.Skill 3600 14-14-14 memory and B-Die G.Skill 4000 19-19-19 memory I am swapping between to see what I can get to run the best. Currently using the 3600 sticks and some generic timings from the dram calc for the 3800 settings. Just to give me a base to work from.


So, to re-iteriate, if my benches are good and performance increases, should I worry about whea errors? Would this effect my overall stability eventually? I don't really know what whea errors are.
I actually use Linux nearly 100% of the time and am only using windows to get my overclock set before locking it all in stone and throwing my normal OS back on this machine.


----------



## Veii

MNKyDeth said:


> I don't really know what whea errors are.


WHEAService, WHEA errors suppressor - unleash Ryzen... whole thread including comments.
Mostly "Value overdrived beyond max value, ended up in Void and did not return success or error ~ failure by unknown failure."

The issue on #19 is soo stupid, complex but stupid. It's AMDs boosting and boosting management System that fails.
That and the way cores are "fused away" or CCDs are "disabled" or not implemented.
A flaw on the very core design of the Sensorics system on AMDs side ~ early on influenced by IO hanging on the Chipset. Now left/remaining purely on AMDs Firmware side


----------



## Taraquin

Nighthog said:


> PBO2 Tuner with *-30* Curve Optimizer all core:
> 
> CPU-Z M: *6538.3*points S: *631.7*points (Validation)
> Cinebench R23: *15182/1487*
> 
> vs none:
> CPU-Z M: *6352* S:* 632*points (Validation)
> Cinebench R23: *14665/1485*
> 
> It only improves the Multi-thread scores. Single thread is hitting the frequency limits allowed anyway.


Yeah, CO only improves voltage curve on the excisting frequency curve so with out at +25-200 pbo SC will be unchanged. Overall CO is good as it reduces temp SC and improves MC perf at same temp.


----------



## Taraquin

domdtxdissar said:


> Have already maxed it out, mb wont allow me to set higher than 1.95 😇
> 
> Seems like 2033MT/s is the tipping point for this cpu.. above this speed i'm clearly getting reduced scaling.
> 
> 
> 2066: (t2)
> Linpack extended 8gb = 349.2 average gflops
> Y-cruncher 2.5b = 96.755s
> View attachment 2558144
> 
> 
> 2100: (t2)
> Linpack extended 8gb = 342.7 average gflops
> Y-cruncher 2.5b = 101.177s
> View attachment 2558145
> 
> 
> Can make pretty aida screens tho
> View attachment 2558147
> 
> View attachment 2558154


That was low VDD18, several boatds can do 2.1+ (although 2.1 seems like max recommended). 

Question: Can you try high ram oc on desynced IF? For instance 46-4800? It seems the large L3 cache makes timings and latency matter little in games, but bandwith still counts. If my suspicipn is correct we may have a Zen 3 (excluding G-series) that could benefit from running ram at 4500+.


----------



## tcclaviger

Taraquin said:


> That was low VDD18, several boatds can do 2.1+ (although 2.1 seems like max recommended).
> 
> Question: Can you try high ram oc on desynced IF? For instance 46-4800? It seems the large L3 cache makes timings and latency matter little in games, but bandwith still counts. If my suspicipn is correct we may have a Zen 3 (excluding G-series) that could benefit from running ram at 4500+.


I tried to test this early on when I got mine. Could not get my ram to clock over 4133 on C6E. May try now on new board, probably works better than t topo of the 6.


----------



## Taraquin

tcclaviger said:


> I tried to test this early on when I got mine. Could not get my ram to clock over 4133 on C6E. May try now on new board, probably works better than t topo of the 6.


Did it scale positive with 4133 vs 3800 even if desynced?


----------



## Veii

Making babysteps, but at least some


Spoiler: Heat ~ watch L3 Freq (Old)














Current








OC_Mode enabled toggle passes...nearly. Doesn't reject to some extend
But is missing boost, yet FMAX extend still works 
+200, L3 can run +200 now
SMU 56.37 ~ can't find a usable +500 version for my board

But you know, that's good
soo potentially 4.75 can work out for us ~ IDs are fine now & i think fixed voltage sticks now too
Just cheering, not much more ~ still a lot of work left & finding a usable full-boost bios, that's not 1206


----------



## tcclaviger

I didn't bother to test, timings were completely blown out, looked like some old crusty Hynix timings trying to get it to post at 4400+.

I'll give it a try now and see how high the new board will let me go...

Note: Updated HWBOT with some new scores. Y-cruncher 1B is fastest Zen 3 octalcore time (I suspect I can eek out a sub 30 second), and 2nd and 3rd in octalcore zen 3 for 25b and 25m.



Veii said:


> Making babysteps, but at least some
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Heat ~ watch L3 Freq (Old)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2558212
> 
> 
> 
> Current
> View attachment 2558213
> 
> OC_Mode enabled toggle passes...nearly. Doesn't reject to some extend
> But is missing boost, yet FMAX extend still works
> +200, L3 can run +200 now
> SMU 56.37 ~ can't find a usable +500 version for my board
> 
> But you know, that's good
> soo potentially 4.75 can work out for us ~ IDs are fine now & i think fixed voltage sticks now too
> Just cheering, not much more ~ still a lot of work let & finding a usable full-boost bios, that's not 1206


+200 would basically land it right at the outer edge of the stock voltage limit for stability from what I'm finding tbh. Seems.. almost ideal if that were the only change that works.


----------



## Veii

tcclaviger said:


> +200 would basically land it right at the outer edge of the stock voltage limit for stability from what I'm finding tbh. Seems.. almost ideal if that were the only change that works.


I'd like to have at least +200
+500 would be better (and i think that can work out), but i'm fine with +200 too at this stage.


----------



## tcclaviger

104.2 x 47.5....4950 1t 4636 nt. Mhmm.

Liking the look of that spread tbh.



Taraquin said:


> Did it scale positive with 4133 vs 3800 even if desynced?



Board is being a tird and giving me NOPE over 4133 even in raw mhz mode. Probably the same thing Asus screwed up that makes C14 not work at 3800 on known good dimms/IMC.

My daily setup is 4098 so kind of near it's limit as is.


----------



## Nighthog

I've found a kind of odd behaviour when running 5100+ memory speeds with the 5800X3D that mimics exactly what I saw with the 3800X.
You have less issues training when the system is colder in ambient temperature rather than having it be hot and ready after running extensive loads on it.

You run anything that heats the system up for a few hours and all of a sudden what you got to train and run when cold no longer wants to train @ 5100Mts or 5200Mts etc.
When the system gets warm there is a change in tolerance of something to quite a extent making you [F9] post previously stable settings if you want to train them again.
You might need to retry quite a few times of just wait for the system to cool down a bit to get your 5100Mts or 5200Mts speeds trained again.

I was surprised both processors behaved exactly the same at these kind of speeds.
5000Mts is not a issue, only when you want to push further does the ambient (parts) temperature matter for training success. I've not really figured out a voltage or setting to adjust to make this less of a issue but CLDO_VDDP does have a little effect but it's not only that though. Voltage needs drifts a little higher for easier success.

Can the temperature of the memory matter more? Though they should cool quite a bit faster than the rest of the parts with the active cooling. Motherboard traces too hot? CPU socket?
If I could find the issue to this rather than trying to put literal ice to keep them cool enough for ease of use.

Running extensive stress-tests with memory intensive loads seem to have the largest effect on the drift of tolerances with regard to the heat.
It usually takes a while for the system to cool down to be the easier behaviour so it's not specific core temperature issue.
Motherboard tollerance for heat?


----------



## PJVol

Veii said:


> assist a bit in figuring why OC_Mode toggle is rejected


Not sure I'm fully understand all these BIOS - SMU communication pitfalls, but offhand, it comes to mind @infraredbg (Rusanov) found some time ago that "OC mode enable" sent via mp1 did nothing for him or was just rejected.
All my knowledge base on that topic comes down to lack of functioning APML mailbox interface implementation (SB RMI master)
Unfortunately, the only person who could help with this - @CyrIng - not gonna waste his time on it, that is understandable.


----------



## domdtxdissar

tcclaviger said:


> 632 stock speed, very nice efficiency.
> 
> Wish I understood why mine likes to bounce around 45.2-45.4 instead of just pegging 45.5 single.


For a high score in CPU-Z ST, your best core needs to be the first on the CCD ("core0") -> I'm getting upwards of 726 scoring with my 5950x
At stock CPU-Z bench dont care about affinity and sends ST load to core0, even if its your worst core
(then it will switch between your best core and core0, lowering your score)



Taraquin said:


> Question: Can you try high ram oc on desynced IF? For instance 46-4800? It seems the large L3 cache makes timings and latency matter little in games, but bandwith still counts. If my suspicipn is correct we may have a Zen 3 (excluding G-series) that could benefit from running ram at 4500+.


My asus CH8 motherboard stopped at ~2033MT/s and would not run higher, my current unify x max runs atleast 4800MT/s SR and 4466MT/s DR without problems..









In screenshot below i was testing 5950x at static 4500mhz running dual rank memory @ 1900:4466 desynced









Can try to do some async runs when i get home, but i also have so much other stuff to test/bench 
Haven't even tried a game bench yet


----------



## Taraquin

domdtxdissar said:


> For a high score in CPU-Z ST, your best core needs to be the first on the CCD ("core0") -> I'm getting upwards of 726 scoring with my 5950x
> At stock CPU-Z bench dont care about affinity and sends to ST load to core0, even if its your worst core
> (then it will switch between your best core and core0, lowering your score)
> 
> 
> My asus CH8 motherboard stopped at ~2033MT/s and would not run higher, my current unify x max runs atleast 4800MT/s SR and 4400MT/s DR without problems..
> View attachment 2558220
> 
> View attachment 2558221
> 
> Can try to do some async runs when i get home, but i also have so much other stuff to test/bench
> Haven't even tried a game bench yet


Hope to see some async numbers in high 4000 soon then  SOTTR for instance.


----------



## OCmember

@Nighthog Yup, I remember running some stress test but with my 5800X. It passed, rebooted, and the bios got wiped out. I remember cause I didn't have the bios settings saved and I had to go through setting it up again, what a PITA, lol


----------



## yzonker

tcclaviger said:


> Observed the same issue in superposition 1080ex. Same GPU clocks, same RAM clocks, I'm at 14715 while on 5950x 14980(I think it was 80). Looking at close analysis of the runs, there's a couple spots where both dip, but x3d dips 3fps lower. Overall it's only a touch more than 1 fps difference, but for scores it matters.
> 
> 1080ex and PR are both heavily GPU bound though so it makes sense in a way. TS CPU shows improvement vs equally clocked 5800x from what I can tell on top 100.
> 
> Seems it's the areas where raw speed wins the day vs cache size.
> 
> Also...this makes me chuckle..
> View attachment 2558204


Obviously there aren't too many serious runs being made. My 3090 is really average. Mem at best does +1050 in PR. 

But bizarrely, I can't even complete a PR run at +1050 with the 5800x3D. I confirmed the gpu can still do +1050 by swapping in the 5800x again. It almost seems like mem stability gets worse as I drop the water temp below 10C or so. 

I had better success at completing runs last weekend when the dew point was higher. But that 16100 run I posted above with the 5800x was done with 4C water,so once again it doesn't seem like the gpu is at fault. Mining hashrate is just as good as ever too. 

Have you been running your 5800x3D in the 3-5C range, or is the dew point still too high?


----------



## JSHamlet234

yzonker said:


> Obviously there aren't too many serious runs being made. My 3090 is really average. Mem at best does +1050 in PR.
> 
> But bizarrely, I can't even complete a PR run at +1050 with the 5800x3D. I confirmed the gpu can still do +1050 by swapping in the 5800x again. It almost seems like mem stability gets worse as I drop the water temp below 10C or so.
> 
> I had better success at completing runs last weekend when the dew point was higher. But that 16100 run I posted above with the 5800x was done with 4C water,so once again it doesn't seem like the gpu is at fault. Mining hashrate is just as good as ever too.
> 
> Have you been running your 5800x3D in the 3-5C range, or is the dew point still too high?


It's not really that surprising if the GPU was already on the ragged edge of stability at +1050 mem. The faster the CPU is able to feed the GPU, the harder the GPU is pushed. The X3D is faster than the X, and the X3D with sub-ambient water is even faster.


----------



## yzonker

JSHamlet234 said:


> It's not really that surprising if the GPU was already on the ragged edge of stability at +1050 mem. The faster the CPU is able to feed the GPU, the harder the GPU is pushed. The X3D is faster than the X, and the X3D with sub-ambient water is even faster.


Possibly, although this feels like it could be a bios/driver issue, probably due to the 5800x3D being so new. I have been running a very old Nvidia driver on my bench OS due to it performing better in PR. I might try this again on my daily Win10 install with newer Nvidia drivers. 

General question to everyone, what chipset drivers are you running? I grabbed the latest off the Gigabyte site when I got the 5800x3D.


----------



## yzonker

Also, BTW thanks to some of you posting screenshots of Zentimings, I managed to adjust my voltages to get 3800 whea free on my 5800x3D. 4000 posts and loads Windows with no crashes,but with an occasional whea. 

Still can't post above 3633 though with bclk above 100. Anyone have any suggestions on how to improve that?


----------



## L!ME

still at optimizing


----------



## EniGma1987

L!ME said:


> still at optimizing
> View attachment 2558279


Eww. Just drop the speed down and run 1:1. You are never going to overcome the latency hit no matter what speed and timings you try by going away from it. Your goal should be to get as low latency as you can, with as high FCLK as you can, without getting WHEA errors.


----------



## JSHamlet234

L!ME said:


> still at optimizing
> View attachment 2558279


Thank you for taking the time to test this out. How do the results look at something less extreme, like 4600-4800 CL18? Have you tested in any games like SOTTR?


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Sorry, I haven't followed this thread in a while. Not sure if this was discussed but has anyone tested emulation? E.g. Dolphin. If so, have you noticed any improvement vs. a non- 3D Zen 3 CPU.


----------



## LtMatt

This is the best I've managed so far with my average B Die (Z Neo 3600CL16, DR, 1.55v needed) that is 24/7 stable, with no WHEA errors.









If I go any higher on the BCLK, my two laptop sata hard drives using AMD Raid stop getting detected.

Might consider trying the Asus apps, either AI Suite or the Turbo one to see if the BCLK can be increased further once Windows has loaded and the raid drives are detected.


----------



## MrHoof

Blameless said:


> I'm mostly running HNT (1-6-8-17-0), but occasstionally mix it up. Haven't seen a single crash in y-cruncher, nor any red WHEA error 18s.
> 
> I eventually hit a single corrected bus/interconnect error while at sub-1.7v PLL after 12 hours and am currently finding the floor that will pass 24+ hours HNT with -30 on all cores. My SoC or VDDGs could be a little low...I'll raise those if ~1.74v PLL shows any signs of problems.
> 
> What core voltages are you seeing with snapshot polling enabled in HWiNFO during HNT?


SoC 1.1 VDDGs 1.05iod 0.9ccd PPL 1.84 (If VTT is the correct sensor. if its not, my board does not read it would not suprise me not even Vdimm reading exist.)
Screenshots after 1 Minute cause I dont want to run it longer on stock.


Spoiler: HNT after 1min














Would add -30 CO but it will instant shutdown with core 3 crashing.


----------



## tcclaviger

BCLK raising in OS causes strange behavior in some apps, just a heads up.

Anything using HPET for calculating scores, like 3dmark CPU or Geekbench will both invalidate the run and won't reflect any performance increase using bclk adjustment after OS load.

The gains are there, easily verifiable with Cinebench, corona. Cpuz etc. In gaming it shows improvement, did a 2 hour SC session last night at 104.2/4100 mem to see if it helps. It does.


For you memory nerds, this is annoying AF:

100 bclk 1900/3800, GDM off/on, CR1 or 2, C15 works and is stable
100 bclk 1900/3800 any setting C14 system won't post/hangs on windows loading
100 bclk 1900/3800, GDM off, CR2, C13 works and is stable. GDM on at C13 behaves as C14, because it's C14.

No other settings changed. I swear to God Asus know how to make the shiniest and most glorious bugs in DIY market.


----------



## MrHoof

Even CL can make all kind of problems like you already noticed with tPHYRDL 26/28
Its weird that its not booting at 100 bclk, but working if you increase bclk to get to 3800 like in post 1.
edit: Try those maybe.


----------



## Blameless

MrHoof said:


> SoC 1.1 VDDGs 1.05iod 0.9ccd PPL 1.84 (If VTT is the correct sensor. if its not, my board does not read it would not suprise me not even Vdimm reading exist.)
> Screenshots after 1 Minute cause I dont want to run it longer on stock.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: HNT after 1min
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2558300
> 
> 
> 
> Would add -30 CO but it will instant shutdown with core 3 crashing.


Clocks and voltages look normal; probably just a pair of weaker cores.

That power reporting deviation is pretty extreme though. What sort of VRM/DIGI power settings are you running? I haven't seen anything below the upper 70s on any board, and below 90% usually takes strange LLC settings. Some sort of phase shedding enabled?


----------



## IloveShoes

Here is my short sad story.

Got a Taichi x470 on the 4.88 beta bios. With no voltage control for the CPU no PBO tuning and no control over LLC.

Just SoC and Memory but okay i can work with BCLK.. or so i thought

Was playing happy at 106mhz bclk everything fine even running at pcie 3.0 then i started comparing scores in CB23 and others and was like hey, why its so low.
I reset bios and lo and behold the base boost clock is only 4,45ghz im a little sad


----------



## kaosstar

Does anyone know of a list somewhere of boards with external clock generators?
I have a C7H, but would prefer a board with pcie 4.0.


----------



## MrHoof

Blameless said:


> Clocks and voltages look normal; probably just a pair of weaker cores.
> 
> That power reporting deviation is pretty extreme though. What sort of VRM/DIGI power settings are you running? I haven't seen anything below the upper 70s on any board, and below 90% usually takes strange LLC settings. Some sort of phase shedding enabled?


That happens when I use CO and it goes to idle did open HWINFO before ycrunsher, everything in DIGI settings is default at the moment.
Dunno if idle is really worth paying attention to tho.








edit: Core 3 is garbage and Core 6 is kinda ok after -20 CO so ye have 2 weak cores.
edit2: @IloveShoes try pbo tuner linked on page 1 for curve optimzer.


----------



## Blameless

MrHoof said:


> That happens when I use CO and it goes to idle did open HWINFO before ycrunsher, everything in DIGI settings is default at the moment.
> Dunno if idle is really worth paying attention to tho.
> View attachment 2558331
> 
> edit: Core 3 is garbage and Core 6 is kinda ok after -20 CO so ye have 2 weak cores.


The minimum values reported are almost certainly being hit under load...probably when first starting y-cruncher. Idle values are using much higher than 100%.

I'd guess it's phase shedding, which is probably enabled by default.


----------



## Veii

Feeling cheerful today
Let's make a little deal 

This is "Method 3 out of 4" ~ as promised January in HWLUXX
Not as easy as i want it to be & will appear with bad intentions, but holding promise is important.

Better more user-friendly methods & updates, to follow
Hopefully also Bios mods for more novice users


----------



## tcclaviger

@Veii did you intend to post that? Might want to hold off on it according to the 1207/1208 clause, 1207/1208 is not final or released for most boards.


----------



## Veii

tcclaviger said:


> @Veii did you intend to post that? Might want to hold off on it according to the 1207/1208 clause, 1207/1208 is not final or released for most boards.


All good 
Has to be now, but will be gone tomorrow
I have other intentions~
AMD is slightly annoying on the locks side [CPU, AGESA & erased option]
Soo associating more people into this ~ is needed, yet will cause me trouble
A very thin line between asking for help & keeping for yourself


----------



## tcclaviger

Fair enough, just wanted to make sure it wasn't a miss-paste thing 

Want to emphasize this for people who have absolutely no idea what's going on here:

*Changes stick instant on reboot. Tool is dangerous and can result in bios soft-brick or result in overvolted CPU if intentions are bad
Do not load random users config , only works for the same Vendor on different SKUs. Every Vendor has different hierarchy.
Loading non existent changes or changing stuff will map it out and inject permanently the option & offset. Be mindful about changes ! *


----------



## Veii

Reason should push AMD a bit , to hurry up with AGESA 1207 and finally map their AMD OC menu
Endgoal should be positive, i hope
Might get me banned tho.^^' 
Eh at least i fully hold promise with Vermeer. Yuri will take over Zen4 then & i can rest a bit~


----------



## tcclaviger

To confirm, this is 1207 only, and wont work with 1206b correct?


----------



## Veii

tcclaviger said:


> To confirm, this is 1207 only, and wont work with 1206b correct?


It works on everything that uses current Firmware
Intel, AMD. Laptops & NUCs & every CPU design

It is bit more powerful than what you get, but what you get is enough for our type of work
Sharing it early,
~ will result in it being unsupported in a short period of time.
~ will result in ODMs getting newer version
~ will result in loading hierarchy to change , to disable this method
~ might result in Zen4 being more annoying locked, but at least here AMD has nothing to say
~ might force Vendors to password protect their designs (please not)

We still need to "make" a biosmod and bring erased options back. Also bring Milan-X options down to consumer
It will list and override changes that "the gui = bios" does not list. But for it to work deeper, the bios files (DXE) need to extend
You can "add" +600 FMAX, if HEX in Bios-file & then change your config to extend higher range. Any change you do , is injected (be it "override" or "add/erase")
It bypasses Board-Vendors decision what they want to list ~ but requires AGESA blob to be compiled with the option in existence

We all "miss" the correct option, soo by-hand bios work is still required to port things back (very bothersome)
If you load random persons config ,it will extend it's range and offset. Soo can result in messing up Flash-ROM structure ~ hence the warning.'
But can also result in hidden options appearing back again


----------



## tcclaviger

I cannot get boost override to function using the following entries am I missing one that you're using?
Setup Question = CPU Boost Clock Override
Token =F0 // Do NOT change this line
// Setup Question = CPU Boost Clock Override
// Token =F1 // Do NOT change this line
Setup Question = Max CPU Boost Clock Override
Token =F2 // Do NOT change this line
Setup Question = Max CPU Boost Clock Override (+)
Token =F3 // Do NOT change this line
Setup Question = Max CPU Boost Clock Override (-)
Token =F4 // Do NOT change this line


----------



## bloot

Really appreciated (don't know how to make it work but will try to find it out)


----------



## Veii

tcclaviger said:


> I cannot get boost override to function using the following entries am I missing one that you're using?


I work on it
AGESA 1206A is slightly unstable, and PB2 is killed away if it detects it's boosting too high
Likely will need live-change via RU-Tool , can't say atm.

Something triggers PB2 disable
This wasn't the case bellow AGESA 1206 
If i don't resolve it till tomorrow, i'll think about if making a thread for working with "the tool" is necessary
But tbh, want to extend the people who have it ~ soo more brains can work on this annoying lock.
Yet not damage hard working ODMs and make other bios modders dislike me for having their tools being rendered "useless" ~ very thin line

All because AMD doesn't trust us ~ only when "they haven't tested it".
If they cooperate and be more consumer friendly, all that is not needed.
Same goes to other Vendors i have on target.
Don't be against consumer. Be more intelligent and work with us ~ be like Intel and use the XOC scene as free learning resource 
Although they are not angels either


----------



## Veii

Is this for everyone ?
Do you boost to 4.55 or 4.45 "on stock"








^ SMU 56.67
FIT-V limit seems to scale down, up to BoostMAX state loaded
Sometimes 1.3v, sometimes 1.0267v if PB2 get's disabled, sometimes lower if boost-max somewhy is lower
I wonder if its just Patch-A


----------



## domdtxdissar

Taraquin said:


> Hope to see some async numbers in high 4000 soon then  SOTTR for instance.


So after alot of testing and troubleshooting i have learned a few things..

Newest MSI unify x max bios is quite buggy with the 5800x3d
Games/SotTR seems to love bandwidth, latency not so important with this large L3, just like predicted.
Bandwidth very much depends on the FCLK, example below: (much more than my dual ccd 5950x i think)








,
VS









Have also done some gamebenches in SotTR 1080p lowest. Getting around ~370fps cpu game average numbers with very tight CL13 1900:3800 timings and ~377fps cpu game average numbers running asynced with both 4033/4466 and 4100/4466









Also uploaded a 2.5b y-cruncher run = 92.459s









Main limiting factor for me seem to be the 100mhz baseclock which dont allow overlocking on this motherboard 
Think i will dig out my old 2x8GB sticks for some ~4033flock/4800MT/s action tomorrow

Also think there is no problem cooling this chip, much easier than my old 5950x, so i dont understand what the fuzz is about


----------



## tcclaviger

Thanks. Sorry for misunderstanding, I optimisticly read what I wanted to see instead of what was written haha.


----------



## tcclaviger

Thanks Dom. Screenshots helped, I had something...not configured right last night trying high speed 2:1.

Now making progress


----------



## Veii

tcclaviger said:


> For you memory nerds, this is annoying AF:
> 
> 100 bclk 1900/3800, GDM off/on, CR1 or 2, C15 works and is stable
> 100 bclk 1900/3800 any setting C14 system won't post/hangs on windows loading
> 100 bclk 1900/3800, GDM off, CR2, C13 works and is stable. GDM on at C13 behaves as C14, because it's C14.
> 
> No other settings changed. I swear to God Asus know how to make the shiniest and most glorious bugs in DIY market.


Quite often overlooked
*tCWL* can *not* be on AMD *higher than tCL*
And* tPHYRDL often bugs out beyond value 30*

Memory training got a change on 1206 but is still flawed
If tCL = tCWL , tRDWR is often half of tRCDRD
On dual rank you add +2 on it , or only +1 and add delay on tWRRD (up to PCB they go lower, but this is "the foundation/baseline" math)
often starting with value 2 or higher. Keep tWRRD bellow tRDWR value, only one of both can be high (overlap issue ~ balancing on Intel is different)

Soo if now 14-14-14 is tCWL 14 , and tRDWR 7 (9 on DR)
13-14-14 needs tCWL 12 (tCWL can't be 13)
tCWL ruleset is , -1 tCWL== +1 tRDWR
tCWL drops by 1 here (tCL 13, tCWL 12) as tCWL also can't be an odd value on AMD (not always, training FW issue) ~ soo tRDWR 9 needs to go to 10

Taking 16-16-16 set, tRDWR is 8 on SR, tCWL 16
tCWL 12 would be 4 steps down, soo tCWL 12 needs tRDWR 12 ~ for it to post (-4 on tCWL = +4 on tRDWR)
That and the increased voltage requirements from tighter CAS timing or virtual CAS timing (tCWL)


----------



## tcclaviger

Thanks you reminded me of requirements for tWRRD and tRDWR which seemed to have been the culprit. Seems I carried over my SR timings there as "safe and working" when in fact... DR changes that. VDIMM readout bugged btw.


----------



## yzonker

Ok hopefully a final update on my 3DMark adventure. With more testing I've determined there is just a very small loss in overall stability compared to the 5800x. I can either drop the core one bin or the mem 50-100 and get PR to complete. As most of you probably know, there is a small amount of interaction between the core and memory, so that all makes pretty good sense. 

No idea why there is a loss though. I tried it also on my Win10 install with much newer NVIDIA drivers and found the same issue.


----------



## tcclaviger

@domdtxdissar you gutted the 5100mts 25b score on Hwbot lol, nice work.


----------



## Sparrow1408

I hope the rumor of AMD opening up voltage control is true. I bought a 2X32 ram kit hoping this system would last a good while longer to go along with the 5800X3D. Original System had a 3600 and a B-Die kit but thought more ram equal more better in the long run... right? Anyway... the chips look like they are a solid bin of Hynix MJR.

- My 5800X3D will post and run at 2000 FCLK 1:1:1 but it throws WHEA errors like crazy and isn't Memtest stable.

- I can get it Memory "Stable" at 1967 FLCK 1:1:1 but it won't go over 200% error free 

- It is memory stable @ 1933 but Prime95 will slowly tick WHEA errors.

- I tried lowering the primary timings, even by increasing the voltage from 1.4v to 1.45v/1.5v, and the system wouldn't post any lower @ 1900 FLCK 1:1:1; tFAW and tRFC any lower will cause memory errors BUT it's Prime 95 stable.

The System is SO close to 2000 FLCK 1:1:1 it's sad  Having that extra little bit of performance arbitrarily locked away is VERY disappointing.


----------



## IloveShoes

Veii said:


> Is this for everyone ?
> Do you boost to 4.55 or 4.45 "on stock"
> View attachment 2558340
> 
> ^ SMU 56.67
> FIT-V limit seems to scale down, up to BoostMAX state loaded
> Sometimes 1.3v, sometimes 1.0267v if PB2 get's disabled, sometimes lower if boost-max somewhy is lower
> I wonder if its just Patch-A


The Taichi x470 have this issue with only boosting to 4,45ghz and not the expected 4,55ghz. Im on SMU 56.69


----------



## LtMatt

Just to add, I only see boosting up to 4450 as well.


----------



## Taraquin

Sparrow1408 said:


> I hope the rumor of AMD opening up voltage control is true. I bought a 2X32 ram kit hoping this system would last a good while longer to go along with the 5800X3D. Original System had a 3600 and a B-Die kit but thought more ram equal more better in the long run... right? Anyway... the chips look like they are a solid bin of Hynix MJR.
> 
> - My 5800X3D will post and run at 2000 FCLK 1:1:1 but it throws WHEA errors like crazy and isn't Memtest stable.
> 
> - I can get it Memory "Stable" at 1967 FLCK 1:1:1 but it won't go over 200% error free
> 
> - It is memory stable @ 1933 but Prime95 will slowly tick WHEA errors.
> 
> - I tried lowering the primary timings, even by increasing the voltage from 1.4v to 1.45v/1.5v, and the system wouldn't post any lower @ 1900 FLCK 1:1:1; tFAW and tRFC any lower will cause memory errors BUT it's Prime 95 stable.
> 
> The System is SO close to 2000 FLCK 1:1:1 it's sad  Having that extra little bit of performance arbitrarily locked away is VERY disappointing.


Tried upping VDD18? May help a lot WHEA19-wise.


----------



## RedF

Sparrow1408 said:


> I hope the rumor of AMD opening up voltage control is true. I bought a 2X32 ram kit hoping this system would last a good while longer to go along with the 5800X3D. Original System had a 3600 and a B-Die kit but thought more ram equal more better in the long run... right? Anyway... the chips look like they are a solid bin of Hynix MJR.
> 
> - My 5800X3D will post and run at 2000 FCLK 1:1:1 but it throws WHEA errors like crazy and isn't Memtest stable.
> 
> - I can get it Memory "Stable" at 1967 FLCK 1:1:1 but it won't go over 200% error free
> 
> - It is memory stable @ 1933 but Prime95 will slowly tick WHEA errors.
> 
> - I tried lowering the primary timings, even by increasing the voltage from 1.4v to 1.45v/1.5v, and the system wouldn't post any lower @ 1900 FLCK 1:1:1; tFAW and tRFC any lower will cause memory errors BUT it's Prime 95 stable.
> 
> The System is SO close to 2000 FLCK 1:1:1 it's sad  Having that extra little bit of performance arbitrarily locked away is VERY disappointing.


Try to increase the VDDP. At mine I could get 1966 MHz WHEA free with VDDP 1020mV.


----------



## Taraquin

domdtxdissar said:


> So after alot of testing and troubleshooting i have learned a few things..
> 
> Newest MSI unify x max bios is quite buggy with the 5800x3d
> Games/SotTR seems to love bandwidth, latency not so important with this large L3, just like predicted.
> Bandwidth very much depends on the FCLK, example below: (much more than my dual ccd 5950x i think)
> 
> View attachment 2558335
> ,
> VS
> View attachment 2558336
> 
> 
> Have also done some gamebenches in SotTR 1080p lowest. Getting around ~370fps cpu game average numbers with very tight CL13 1900:3800 timings and ~377fps cpu game average numbers running asynced with both 4033/4466 and 4100/4466
> View attachment 2558338
> 
> 
> Also uploaded a 2.5b y-cruncher run = 92.459s
> View attachment 2558339
> 
> 
> Main limiting factor for me seem to be the 100mhz baseclock which dont allow overlocking on this motherboard
> Think i will dig out my old 2x8GB sticks for some ~4033flock/4800MT/s action tomorrow
> 
> Also think there is no problem cooling this chip, much easier than my old 5950x, so i dont understand what the fuzz is about


So there seems to be a bit if scaling async if ram speed is high enough, that is good


----------



## bloot

LtMatt said:


> Just to add, I only see boosting up to 4450 as well.


4550MHz here but it's just a single core boost, all core max freq is 4450MHz

I can see it when running CPU-Z single core bench for example


----------



## domdtxdissar

bloot said:


> 4550MHz here but it's just a single core boost, all core max freq is 4450MHz
> 
> I can see it when running CPU-Z single core bench for example


Same here: 4550mhz ST and 4450mhz MT


----------



## Nighthog

Stresstested my 5800X3D using CO and got the following values to work in Y-cruncher in general after a quick days worth of messing with it.

5800X3D 5100Mts 1900FCLK [-30, -30, -23, -22, -20, -30, -24, -20]
LLC AUTO, no voltage offsets.

Will some other time check how LLC effect this.

In contrast -30 & -40 is ~fine~ for general usage if you don't want to stresstest.


----------



## BHS1975

bloot said:


> 4550MHz here but it's just a single core boost, all core max freq is 4450MHz
> 
> I can see it when running CPU-Z single core bench for example


Need a way to bump up power limits.


----------



## Nighthog

tcclaviger said:


> 632 stock speed, very nice efficiency.
> 
> Wish I understood why mine likes to bounce around 45.2-45.4 instead of just pegging 45.5 single.


I find CPU-Z bench likes memory frequency increases in general for better scores other stuff the same.
My sample also doesn't peg 45.5 single core but bounces around just below like yours.

You might get 1:1 FCLK synced memory to score better 3800Mhz etc in other benchmarks but CPU-Z likes that memory frequency if you can tune it somewhat to represent similar scores as XMP 3800 might show.


----------



## Nighthog

Anyone know any good third party SATA controllers that can handle BCLK increases?

I bought a cheap one but it only works to around 102.5BCLK before dropping the drives attached to it. 
I see one might need one with a clock-gen onboard for this to work better? Anyone have ideas?

Also would be good to gather a list of NVME drives that handle BCLK well as well. I haven't seen any people mention what kind of drives are better than others with regard to manufacturer or controllers that work.
I need more storage but haven't bought anything before I know what should be bought if one wants to mess with BLCK some more.


----------



## LtMatt

New BIOS for the Asus boards. Anyone tried it yet?








ASUS ROG X570 Crosshair VIII Overclocking &amp...


I'll read it for the 😆 I know Igor will deliver.




www.overclock.net


----------



## Blameless

tcclaviger said:


> Thanks you reminded me of requirements for tWRRD and tRDWR which seemed to have been the culprit. Seems I carried over my SR timings there as "safe and working" when in fact... DR changes that. VDIMM readout bugged btw.
> View attachment 2558353


Are those timings faster than loosening tCL and running tighter tRDWR?



Nighthog said:


> Anyone know any good third party SATA controllers that can handle BCLK increases?
> 
> I bought a cheap one but it only works to around 102.5BCLK before dropping the drives attached to it.
> I see one might need one with a clock-gen onboard for this to work better? Anyone have ideas?
> 
> Also would be good to gather a list of NVME drives that handle BCLK well as well. I haven't seen any people mention what kind of drives are better than others with regard to manufacturer or controllers that work.
> I need more storage but haven't bought anything before I know what should be bought if one wants to mess with BLCK some more.


I don't know of any controllers that specifically handle high PCI-E clocks well, but backing off a generation on the interface speed will almost always allow a higher PCI-E clock than native gen.

That said, running anything beyond stock PCI-E clock is probably unwise if you care about data integrity. Testing drives/controllers at non-spec speeds is really tedious.


----------



## LtMatt

LtMatt said:


> New BIOS for the Asus boards. Anyone tried it yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS ROG X570 Crosshair VIII Overclocking &amp...
> 
> 
> I'll read it for the 😆 I know Igor will deliver.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Getting slightly worse latency on Aida64 with this BIOS by 0.2-0.4ns. 

Not observed any other issues as of yet.


----------



## Blameless

LtMatt said:


> New BIOS for the Asus boards. Anyone tried it yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS ROG X570 Crosshair VIII Overclocking &amp...
> 
> 
> I'll read it for the 😆 I know Igor will deliver.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Don't have any working ASUS AM4 boards, but these BIOSes have new microcode for the 5800X3D.


----------



## Sparrow1408

Taraquin said:


> Tried upping VDD18? May help a lot WHEA19-wise.





RedF said:


> Try to increase the VDDP. At mine I could get 1966 MHz WHEA free with VDDP 1020mV.


I tried increasing VCore SOC up to 1.25V and VDDP18 up to 2.0V

I believe the WHEA errors are caused by the AMD Boost/Voltage algorithm as the Prime95 threads themselves aren't failing with the WHEA errors but I also didn't let the software run for an hour+ because it's not stable; Eventually they may error but letting it run to find out wasn't a priority. Since the machine is not Prime95 stable at 1933 I didn't bother to much with 1967 or 2000 FLCK.

@1967 1:1:1 Memory WAS verified at boot with XMP toggled on "just because" but if it throws WHEA errors in windows then that information doesn't mean much.

Will mess with it more when a new BIOS is released.


----------



## LtMatt

Hmmm. With the new BIOS I seem to be making progress towards 4000/2000FCLK. No Whea errors after 400% ram test and 10 minute throttling test on CB23. By now I’d have got half a dozen errors. Not convinced needs more testing.


----------



## tcclaviger

Nighthog said:


> Anyone know any good third party SATA controllers that can handle BCLK increases?
> 
> I bought a cheap one but it only works to around 102.5BCLK before dropping the drives attached to it.
> I see one might need one with a clock-gen onboard for this to work better? Anyone have ideas?
> 
> Also would be good to gather a list of NVME drives that handle BCLK well as well. I haven't seen any people mention what kind of drives are better than others with regard to manufacturer or controllers that work.
> I need more storage but haven't bought anything before I know what should be bought if one wants to mess with BLCK some more.


SN550 handles high bclk well, I've used it long term with raised bclk on 3900x.
CS3030 and 980 Pro are tolerating 104.2 just fine, but so far it's a short duration test. 970 m.2 was known to throw fits with raised bclk.



Blameless said:


> Are those timings faster than loosening tCL and running tighter tRDWR?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know of any controllers that specifically handle high PCI-E clocks well, but backing off a generation on the interface speed will almost always allow a higher PCI-E clock than native gen.
> 
> That said, running anything beyond stock PCI-E clock is probably unwise if you care about data integrity. Testing drives/controllers at non-spec speeds is really tedious.


It's about the same tbh. Have run 15 and 10 instead and the difference is miniscule, favoring C14. I was more concerned with being unable to boot at 14.

After Dom's testing and my own study of it, I concur with him, speed is king on X3D, so up it went to 2049:4098 at C15.

60800w 59000c 53.9ns L3s over 600 and 11.9ns it passed tm5 absolute 3x in ~ 1.5 hours.

y-cruncher:
25m: ~0.483 +\-0.05
1b: 30.5
25b: 89.002 

This is my new daily baseline


----------



## domdtxdissar

LOL did not believe this, hardly any difference between memory/infinity fabric speeds in SotTR 

1900:3800 = 377 cpu game average









*1600:3200 = 375 cpu game average !*









Also, this current bios implementation have no option to disable SMT with a 5800x3d 
(which would give me higher numbers)

_edit_
Now i also see the tRFC numbers are wrong for the 1600:3200 profile


----------



## tcclaviger

I believe that's what Yonkers also found. RAW CPU speed is the choke point on x3d in SotTR, more specifically I suspect it's L3 speed directly.

The reason I think so, I find SotTR score seems to correlates with Aida copy test of L3.

Super thankful both you and Veii for the tips/screens yesterday, I couldn't get this to pass TM5 long term tests previously, does so happily now at 1.15 soc and 1.616vdimm.

For those on Crosshair 8, VDIMM actual reported in HWINFO is == TurboV Core == DMM reading.


----------



## Nighthog

tcclaviger said:


> SN550 handles high bclk well, I've used it long term with raised bclk on 3900x.
> CS3030 and 980 Pro are tolerating 104.2 just fine, but so far it's a short duration test. 970 m.2 was known to throw fits with raised bclk.


Thanks for the info.
Though I was looking at other drives in mind for purchase.

Nothing on Crucial P5 Plus or Kingston KC3000 drives?
KC3000 is on a good deal at the moment for me locally so was thinking of getting it but find no info if the drive can handle BCLK.

CS3031 seems to be on clearance sale so it's a option for me but was more looking at gen4 drives.
Is it better to target gen3 NVME drives rather than gen4 for BCLK?
Is newer better here or are gen4 more finicky to function correctly.

It would have been so easy if this information was available at all but none do tests for this stuff.


----------



## Nighthog

domdtxdissar said:


> LOL did not believe this, hardly any difference between memory/infinity fabric speeds in SotTR
> 
> 1900:3800 = 377 cpu game average
> 
> *1600:3200 = 375 cpu game average !*
> 
> Also, this current bios implementation have no option to disable SMT with a 5800x3d
> (which would give me higher numbers)
> 
> _edit_
> Now i also see the tRFC numbers are wrong for the 1600:3200 profile


Yeah the options are a bit lacking with regard to the MSI Unify-X overall.

The tRFC bugs out for me at times as well. You have to retry reloading your options/settings again if it does that thing where it resets to AUTO settings.
It can load wrong voltage for VDDG_IOD at times as well rather than your set value I've noted.

The BIOS is not full fledged or fixed from bugs.


----------



## RedF

I got from Gigabyte support a beta BIOS (4c Aorus Master x570s) where I can set the VDDG etc. correctly. I just wrote them that this does not work properly.

Now I try from the support to get the dynamic CPU VCore unlocked.


----------



## tcclaviger

Nighthog said:


> Thanks for the info.
> Though I was looking at other drives in mind for purchase.
> 
> Nothing on Crucial P5 Plus or Kingston KC3000 drives?
> KC3000 is on a good deal at the moment for me locally so was thinking of getting it but find no info if the drive can handle BCLK.
> 
> CS3031 seems to be on clearance sale so it's a option for me but was more looking at gen4 drives.
> Is it better to target gen3 NVME drives rather than gen4 for BCLK?
> Is newer better here or are gen4 more finicky to function correctly.
> 
> It would have been so easy if this information was available at all but none do tests for this stuff.


Sadly, I don't have any gen 4 drives on hand besides the 980 Pro to test with so controller cross reference won't work. They often go on sale though, so maybe just snipe a 980 on sale next time it goes on offer? When I was searching for Gen 4 drives, my 1tb 980 was the cheapest 4.0 drive due to said sale.


----------



## EniGma1987

RedF said:


> I got from Gigabyte support a beta BIOS (4c Aorus Master x570s) where I can set the VDDG etc. correctly. I just wrote them that this does not work properly.
> 
> Now I try from the support to get the dynamic CPU VCore unlocked.


Hopefully they will release beta bios for other X570 boards soon too then. So far Im not seeing a new one just yet for the older X570 Master
Good luck with the CPU vcore. lol. I think everyone wants that, but it was specifically what AMD wanted locked out so as not to damage the 3d cache since it is supposed to have something like a 1.3 or 1.35 limit before it degrades


----------



## LtMatt

There's definitely some significant change in the Asus BIOS updates I linked earlier. It looks like 4000/2000Mhz FCLK might become stable for me (no WHEA errrors).

Currently trying to dial in CL15 4000/2000Mhz with my average b die DR modules.


----------



## MrHoof

Blameless said:


> The minimum values reported are almost certainly being hit under load...probably when first starting y-cruncher. Idle values are using much higher than 100%.
> 
> I'd guess it's phase shedding, which is probably enabled by default.


Well I dunno what my board is doing then here, idle screenshot. What settings could mess with it?


Spoiler: idle














Not a real ROG board so thats all i got to work with no tweakers paradise


Spoiler: digi + vrm














edit: Even with both Phase Controls on Maximum (all phases active) no change.


----------



## bloot

domdtxdissar said:


> LOL did not believe this, hardly any difference between memory/infinity fabric speeds in SotTR
> 
> 1900:3800 = 377 cpu game average
> View attachment 2558432
> 
> 
> *1600:3200 = 375 cpu game average !*
> View attachment 2558433
> 
> 
> Also, this current bios implementation have no option to disable SMT with a 5800x3d
> (which would give me higher numbers)
> 
> _edit_
> Now i also see the tRFC numbers are wrong for the 1600:3200 profile


You are on a MSI mobo aren't you? Yes, they literally mutilated the bios, no offset vcore, no smt enable/disable option, and many more things, compared to other vendors. They suck big time.

Vcore offsett setting for the 5800X3D | MSI Global English Forum - Index


----------



## LtMatt

Dark Hero BIOS 4201 Ageesa 1207








Only changed the primaries and a few secondaries so far, but looks like this might actually be stable. (currently at 400%+)

On the previous BIOS I would get double digit WHEA errors with CL16.

Need to play with the timings more. TRRDS 4, TRRDL 6 and TFAW 16 throws a memory error.


----------



## Luggage

bloot said:


> 4550MHz here but it's just a single core boost, all core max freq is 4450MHz
> 
> I can see it when running CPU-Z single core bench for example


CPU-Z mt is always hard on zen3 boost - try something easy like occt memtest, tm5.


----------



## LtMatt

Can't believe it's actually stable and WHEA free, but it is. 4000Mhz/2000Mhz CL15. @1.6v. Can maybe bring the memory voltage down a little, needs more testing.









Can't really improve on the timings anywhere or memory error occurs. Not convinced more memory voltage will help as the bin is not great. 

However, it is at least an improvement over my previous best of 3830Mhz/1915Mhz CL14 with BCLK which did produce WHEA errors during Ram Test and CB23.


----------



## MrHoof

@LtMatt tRDWR/tWRRD have alot of headroom left others look fine. Auto does always 18/7 on some boards wich is unreasonable high.
Safe bios before finding lowest tRDWR to low and no boot.


----------



## LtMatt

MrHoof said:


> @LtMatt tRDWR/tWRRD have alot of headroom left others look fine. Auto does always 18/7 on some boards wich is unreasonable high.
> Safe bios before finding lowest tRDWR to low and no boot.


Yes I thought that too. The problem I have is my usual values of 8 and 3 don’t post. Neither does 8 and 4z I managed to get a post of 10 and 1, but aida64 latency climbed to 55.7 ns, so I went back to 18 and 7 which are auto values.  I’ll try again tomorrow and see if I can improve those.


----------



## MrHoof

Try 11 3.
edit: My board even handles 7/3 on DR wich i didnt see anyone else boot yet at 3800mhz on a ryzen 5x system so it depends alot on the board.
A other thing to mention is my 5800x could handle tWRTS/tWRTL 3/10 but this 5800x3d always gives early erros with it


----------



## Blameless

So, I was poking around some dumped NVRAM settings and came across something I had never heard of before and that I cannot seem to find any documentation on.

Anyone know what "Xtrig7 Workaround" is? Only documentation I can find on the feature is in Gigabyte's EPYC board manuals (example). It seems to be some sort of exploit or performance mitigation workaround, but I'm curious if anyone has any more information.

Still need to dump some recent firmware to see if I can apply a CO offset to this 5800X3D and have it actually be applied without needing a software workaround.


----------



## Veii

"It's locked-locked"
* well to some extend it is, but it's fixable as "absolute" freq is just limited by AGESA
EDIT:
It's a bug run.
Relative strap, can be set and taken
Soo at least permissions can work out. AGESA still limits. Rather SMU defined
Boosting system works and adapts with voltage, but FIT limits back F_MAX
Soo while Freq potentially is taken and applied, it is throttled down


Spoiler: Just a bug, but PoC
























PJVol said:


> Unfortunately, the only person who could help with this - @CyrIng - not gonna waste his time on it, that is understandable.


We'll have to see about the "waste of time" part 
I really like his work, but there are many little issues (AMDs side) *
CyrIng and I should sit together for a bit ~ would be contribution towards both sides
* there is a little flakiness on the Ratio & Ratio Calculation side with offsets. 

~ also ty for pointing in the right direction PJVol)


Blameless said:


> Anyone know what "Xtrig7 Workaround" is? Only documentation I can find on the feature is in Gigabyte's EPYC board manuals (example). It seems to be some sort of exploit or performance mitigation workaround, but I'm curious if anyone has any more information.



















Not much more, seems to be some exploit protection but defaulted to disabled on retail units 

Updates to follow, maybe GUI even.
I like when things change towards positive. No more worry about lockdowns
I recommend to read about NVAR








Устройство NVRAM в UEFI-совместимых прошивках, часть четвертая


И снова здравствуйте, уважаемые читатели. Начатый в предыдущих трех частях разговор о форматах хранилищ NVRAM, используемых различными реализациями UEFI, подходит к своему логическому концу....




habr.com




Actually funny story, by the UEFI-Tool dev
Looking how messed up it is for whole APTIO & seeing VI might not come soon
There is zero worry about ruining it for anybody and i found public resources to link towards
Soo no more fear of publishing ~ just takes a bit of time


----------



## BHS1975

Sparrow1408 said:


> I tried increasing VCore SOC up to 1.25V and VDDP18 up to 2.0V
> 
> I believe the WHEA errors are caused by the AMD Boost/Voltage algorithm as the Prime95 threads themselves aren't failing with the WHEA errors but I also didn't let the software run for an hour+ because it's not stable; Eventually they may error but letting it run to find out wasn't a priority. Since the machine is not Prime95 stable at 1933 I didn't bother to much with 1967 or 2000 FLCK.
> 
> @1967 1:1:1 Memory WAS verified at boot with XMP toggled on "just because" but if it throws WHEA errors in windows then that information doesn't mean much.
> 
> Will mess with it more when a new BIOS is released.


So you have the 1900 fclk memory hole too? I don't think it matters with this chip as you don't get much from higher fclk.


----------



## Blameless

Veii said:


>


Yeah, that's exactly what's in the Gigabyte documentation. What's it do? I'm not even sure what the acronyms mean.


----------



## Veii

Blameless said:


> Yeah, that's exactly what's in the Gigabyte documentation. What's it do? I'm not even sure what the acronyms mean.


DBREQ seems to be some VCC_Pin for interrupts connected to STPCLK


















https://www.amd.com/system/files/TechDocs/49125_15h_Models_30h-3Fh_BKDG.pdf



Both together From athlon times too, seem to belong to L2 cache and interrupt management
"Wake up management"
On AMD it seems to have a deeper connection to VCC









PDM would mean powerdown, soo i guess it's mitigation against a wakeup or transfer attack on cache ?
Both workarounds say something around wakeup and transfer ~ soo maybe even something along the lines of HW Prefetcher  
Seems to not be for us, and seems it defaults to "disabled" 
At worst, i'd expect it to lower perf


----------



## tcclaviger

For those never seeing 45.5 multi. I just ran into it too.

If playing with memory, when C8E triggers AMD recovery boot, so 5 times mem train failure, it auto reset Global C-State control to auto.

In Windows, I was only getting 44.5 multi. Set Global C-State control to enabled, 45.5 working again. I know I didn't change that option and forget.

Worth trying to see if it helps.



LtMatt said:


> Can't believe it's actually stable and WHEA free, but it is. 4000Mhz/2000Mhz CL15. @1.6v. Can maybe bring the memory voltage down a little, needs more testing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't really improve on the timings anywhere or memory error occurs. Not convinced more memory voltage will help as the bin is not great.
> 
> 
> 
> However, it is at least an improvement over my previous best of 3830Mhz/1915Mhz CL14 with BCLK which did produce WHEA errors during Ram Test and CB23.


So the new BIOS made an actual difference then, nice. See SMU version is newer, 56.70 vs 56.69.


----------



## Veii

@Blameless


Spoiler: This is the best i can do for you ~ DBREQ & SMM






















Indeed has to do with cores parking, and memory management
Seems also to do with the state of SMM , which usually defaults to locked
Soo 99% an exploit mitigation for gaining higher permissions, by "probably?" abusing injection-based data movement
It says that it has to do with ROM-BAR (low level storage partitions) and has to do with movement of cache data between wakeup and slept interrupt state

STOPCLK is send to parking cores up to thermal state and for Temp throttling
It is send on multiple occasions, and mostly/directly connected with C-States of normal, thermal, S3, S1, V/F-ID, C2,C3 & S4/S5 ~ state

It is also used with/for the APU & basically is for the SMAF (Sys Managament Action Field)
From SMCsend in STPCLK interrupt "assertion messages"

Pretty much exploit protection that targets the interrupts of the Management Engine
...All i can say from my amateur looking-up knowledge, on this.

EDIT:
And probably the maximum amount i could share, while using it as an educational material for security mitigation awareness 
SMM is interesting, but the can of worms is far to big

EDIT2:
Oh hey, i found something








Zen and the Art of SMM Bug Hunting | Finding, Mitigating and Detecting UEFI Vulnerabilities


In Part 5 of our ongoing series on UEFI security research, we dive into the fascinating world of hunting and exploiting SMM vulnerabilities.




www.sentinelone.com












AMD: Fixes For High-Severity SMM Callout Flaws Upcoming


AMD has fixed one high-severity vulnerability affecting its client and embedded processors; fixes for the other two will come out later in June.




threatpost.com




*CVE-2020-12890 *~ AGESA permission pull attack, for unauthorized code excecution
This should be the end answer about this XTRIG topic


----------



## LtMatt

MrHoof said:


> Try 11 3.
> edit: My board even handles 7/3 on DR wich i didnt see anyone else boot yet at 3800mhz on a ryzen 5x system so it depends alot on the board.
> A other thing to mention is my 5800x could handle tWRTS/tWRTL 3/10 but this 5800x3d always gives early erros with it
> View attachment 2558518


11/3 worked, but latency climbed to 55. Tried 12/3 latency back to 54.8ns. That ended up giving me a WHEA though.


----------



## LtMatt

MrHoof said:


> Try 11 3.
> edit: My board even handles 7/3 on DR wich i didnt see anyone else boot yet at 3800mhz on a ryzen 5x system so it depends alot on the board.
> A other thing to mention is my 5800x could handle tWRTS/tWRTL 3/10 but this 5800x3d always gives early erros with it
> View attachment 2558518


Settled on 14/3 for now, stable and WHEA free.









TRRDS 4 TFAW 16 is a no go unfortunately, get a memory error and a random single WHEA error. SCL at 4 causes a memory/WHEA error.

Will try to lower TRCDWR next.

EDIT TRCDWR at 8 throws a single random WHEA error, memory appears stable though reached 300% without error.


----------



## tcclaviger

Feeling inspired by what LtMatt is seeing playing with 1207 and tRDWR/tWRRD, tried 18/7 - more read, less copy, worse latency, then 11/3 to confirm - matched previous values as in the Good News section, now on 12/3 - 200MB/s more read, -20MB/s Copy, equal latency.
I decided to beta test and risk losing what little OC ability I had on 1206b.

Current results, not done trying things out but:








Good News

No loss in ability to manipulate anything.
Identical performance thus far, to within 1/10th of a point in CPUz, 0.1ns in AIDA, and +\- 5mb/s on bandwidth tests with like settings.
FCLK does indeed seem more stable and RAM more forgiving. 1900 strap is more robust.
Boosting behavior exactly the same, to a T.
Running the same settings I was before, but with a lot less voltage than I needed before on SOC, VDIMM, and PLL to achieve the same thing. This is 1.081 SOC, 1.504 VDIMM, 1.856 PLL, TM5 5 run 1usmus v3 stable (so not verified yet, but close at least).

Bad News
- None so far?!

Once again the "improved processor performance" is cover for...we tweaked stuff but we're not telling what.😐,

Side note: Took an adventure down 4x8 Patriot Viper 4400C19 lane today. What a **** show, happily back home in Kansas with my 2x16 Gskills.


----------



## paih85

waiting 1207 for b550-i.. 😢


----------



## Taraquin

LtMatt said:


> Yes I thought that too. The problem I have is my usual values of 8 and 3 don’t post. Neither does 8 and 4z I managed to get a post of 10 and 1, but aida64 latency climbed to 55.7 ns, so I went back to 18 and 7 which are auto values.  I’ll try again tomorrow and see if I can improve those.


Try 10/9 and 3.


----------



## LtMatt

Lowered TRAS to 28, TRC to 48 and TRFC to 252. Almost stable, but a single memory error at 795%. 









Increased TRAS to 30, changed nothing else. Almost stable, but a single memory error at 857%. Grrr. 









Gonna try TRAS 32 next, otherwise I may have to revert TRC to 48 and TRFC to 288. Shame as I am seeing slightly higher read write and copy with these values.



Taraquin said:


> Try 10/9 and 3.


Tried 9/10/3 earlier and latency jumped up to 57.5 ns so that's a no go.


----------



## Veii

tcclaviger said:


> No loss in ability to manipulate anything.


Is PBO CO finally mapped out ?
Like L!ME should be able to ~ you likely too ?
How is FIT_V_MAX or general ZenPTMonitor readout
did positive boost override disappear ?


LtMatt said:


> Tried 9/10/3 earlier and latency jumped up to 57.5 ns so that's a no go.


Only means some other timing is cutting into it and latency is ruined (or unstable)
Like for example tRTP is too long, should be 6


----------



## tcclaviger

Matt, why not tRAS 30, tRC 45, tRFC 260 or 268?



Veii said:


> Is PBO CO finally mapped out ?
> Like L!ME should be able to ~ you likely too ?
> How is FIT_V_MAX or general ZenPTMonitor readout
> did positive boost override disappear ?


No new bios options I saw, will double check for exposed CO, but I didn't see it on 1st check.
LATCHUP_VOLTAGE - same, 1.3v.
FIT limit - same, still seeing rare/occasional 1.3VID spikes with typical more like 1.25v at all core load and 1.194v at single core load, as in 1206b.
This is with TM5 running so 44.5 limited by peak_cclk_freq, otherwise sits at 45.5 and only PPT_Frequency limits at 45.2-45.4 as per 1206b.
Analyzing bios export, something changed, need to find what still.
Found change, two new entries in 1207:

Setup Question = Minimun Frequency
Token =116 // Do NOT change this line
Offset =26C
Width =02
Value =<150>

Setup Question = Maximum Frequency
Token =117 // Do NOT change this line
Offset =26E
Width =02
Value =<2500>

They arrive after:
Setup Question = LCLK Frequency Control

Another new entry:
Setup Question = PSP RPMC Switch
Token =1F6 // Do NOT change this line
Offset =2E9
Width =01
Options =_[FF]Auto // Move "_" to the desired Option
[00]Disabled
[01]Enabled

Will PM you the output of 0604 and 0801 for your own perusal. Total of 4 new entries, zero removals. Last one, PSP RPMC switch seems... interesting possibly, but beyond me.

Found this, probably tells you more than it tells me:
Link about PSP Exposure


----------



## Veii

@tcclaviger 








Not fully error free 
Bit high unless PC has run over 24h
Near 30-35 is fine


----------



## LtMatt

Stability achieved, TRAS 32 did the job.



















Veii said:


> Only means some other timing is cutting into it and latency is ruined (or unstable)
> Like for example tRTP is too long, should be 6





tcclaviger said:


> Matt, why not tRAS 30, tRC 45, tRFC 260 or 268?


Cheers gents, I'll keep tweaking and see what can be improved further.


----------



## Veii

LtMatt said:


> Stability achieved, TRAS 32 did the job.
> View attachment 2558636
> 
> 
> View attachment 2558637
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers gents, I'll keep tweaking and see what can be improved further.


It's bit too early to say
Thermal equilibrium takes 1h minimum, HCI or Karhu % is 10 000% required
TM5 is 25loops 1usmus_v3 config








32+15 = `? ^^#


----------



## tcclaviger

Veii said:


> @tcclaviger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not fully error free
> Bit high unless PC has run over 24h
> Near 30-35 is fine


Correct sir, it is not error free ... yet. Still working to reduce them.


----------



## LtMatt

Veii said:


> It's bit too early to say
> Thermal equilibrium takes 1h minimum, HCI or Karhu % is 10 000% required
> TM5 is 25loops 1usmus_v3 config
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 32+15 = `? ^^#


10000%, that’s an overnight job then.


----------



## tcclaviger

Found new options in BIOS brb with pictures.
Currently have PBO "Enabled" and Scalar Auto - Boost still boosting, need to test stuff still, time to play the "what works" game. EDIT: No change in tool impacts, same as before, going to try setting scalar manually.
LCLK set to 500 500 DPM Disabled.. no WHEAs so far.


----------



## tcclaviger

New PBO menu results:
Scalar - zero impact on anything
PBO - Manual set 141/94/139 in bios and in windows get this result. Confirms it's accepting changes, but only downwards, cannot raise limits.

Going to try WIN1115 override adjustment.
CBS Override options missing, only asus option present.. will try anyway <shrug>.

EDIT: As expected no override applied.


----------



## domdtxdissar

LtMatt said:


> 10000%, that’s an overnight job then.


Nah 18k % is just a normal day at the office


----------



## LtMatt

tcclaviger said:


> Matt, why not tRAS 30, tRC 45, tRFC 260 or 268?


Trying these values now, thanks. 

I always thought TRFC was x6 TRC so 45x6= 270.

How come you suggested 260/268?


----------



## tcclaviger

Added 8 and 16 to your value that was nearly working. I've never seen strong argument for trfc formula so dont use it.

I've seen more arguments against a formula for it than for.


----------



## tcclaviger

Have isolated majority of WHEA to 1 voltage. PLL.

1.8 PLL 100 a second, change to 1.98125 PLL almost none at 1933.

More to follow just trying to systematically squash this once and for all.


----------



## LtMatt

tcclaviger said:


> Added 8 and 16 to your value that was nearly working. I've never seen strong argument for trfc formula so dont use it.
> 
> I've seen more arguments against a formula for it than for.


Thanks, this appears stable though Aida64 latency has climed 0.1-0.2ns but nothing major.








Also got TRDWR at 10 now and TWRRD at 2. Still not really sure what the best values are but these appear stable.

Regarding FCLK WHEA yes, I have PLL at 1.96 in BIOS which shows 1.95 in HWINFO64.


----------



## tcclaviger

So from what I'm seeing, the gross volume of whea is PLL associated. The single whea trickle, cannot be corrected with PLL or PLL reference voltage or SOC. That last 1 every 5 minutes continues so....

Indicative of other source of error, will go hunting tomorrow, I suspect strongly procODT/RTTs.


----------



## Taraquin

LtMatt said:


> Trying these values now, thanks.
> 
> I always thought TRFC was x6 TRC so 45x6= 270.
> 
> How come you suggested 260/268?


Apparently the formula is bogus. According to anta777 RFC can be divideable by 8 on 8gb sticks and 16 on 16GB sticks. Using other value works, but you get no benefit unless you go below the next 8 or 16 threshold. According to Veii this only applies to Intel and maybe Micron ram sticks on AMD, his advice if I remember correct is to use lowest stable value that seem to benefit performance.


----------



## LtMatt

Taraquin said:


> Apparently the formula is bogus. According to anta777 RFC can be divideable by 8 on 8gb sticks and 16 on 16GB sticks. Using other value works, but you get no benefit unless you go below the next 8 or 16 threshold. According to Veii this only applies to Intel and maybe Micron ram sticks on AMD, his advice if I remember correct is to use lowest stable value that seem to benefit performance.


Thanks. Can you give me an example what you mean with a set TRFC value for 16GB DR DIMMS?


----------



## BHS1975

paih85 said:


> waiting 1207 for b550-i.. 😢


I have the B550-F. Hopefully soon. I doubt it will let me post at 1900 though.


----------



## Taraquin

LtMatt said:


> Thanks. Can you give me an example what you mean with a set TRFC value for 16GB DR DIMMS?


Example 272 (16x17) or 288 (16x18), but probably not appliable to other than Intel and Micron ram. If the divideable by 16 works then 288 and 273 RFC would yield identical results, while 257-272 would be a bit faster.


----------



## tcclaviger

I found the a potential big change in 1207. One in line with the "OC Bios in deleopment" article and in line with recent MSI leak.

It appears AMD have disabled the OC Mode enforcement which locks the CPU to 34x multiplier when raising bclk without an external clock gen.

Need confirmation, but, in 1206b I was required to set "force OC mode disable" to enabled when raising bclk or 34x.

1207 PB2 remains functional without changing force oc mode disable. 

Need someone on a board that has no external clock gen to verify 1207 allows it to maintain PB2 with raised bclk. If not, it's an Asus change to default behavior, falling in line with the GB method.


----------



## LtMatt

Achieved my best results so far with the following. Need to confirm 100% stability, got my aida64 latency down to 54.5 moving TRFC down to 240.









I swear my L3 results are getting worse though. Gonna have to test some games with 4000/2000 vs 3800/1900 to check that performance is increasing where it matters for me, games.


----------



## tcclaviger

Voltage. Your L3 is showing the intial symptoms I've observed of clock stretching. Verify no loss in cpuz score.


----------



## LtMatt

tcclaviger said:


> Voltage. Your L3 is showing the intial symptoms I've observed of clock stretching. Verify no loss in cpuz score.


I’ll check…

Which voltage? I’m using stock CPU voltage.


----------



## tcclaviger

vcore offset, throw in + offset with 2 notches for 0.0125, should restore performance.

For SnG I figured I'd toss your timings in seeing as we're on cousin boards, same chip, cousin ram.... what do you know, it worked?! Starting up stability test....and immediate errors for me, something on my config doesn't like it.

I took a guess at VDIMM, 1.6..?


----------



## LtMatt

tcclaviger said:


> vcore offset, throw in + offset with 2 notches for 0.0125, should restore performance.
> 
> For SnG I figured I'd toss your timings in seeing as we're on cousin boards, same chip, cousin ram.... what do you know, it worked?! Starting up stability test....and immediate errors for me, something on my config doesn't like it.
> 
> I took a guess at VDIMM, 1.6..?
> View attachment 2558712


Yep VDIMM at 1.6v. 

In the progress of testing the timings etc above, so far seems okay.









I will do a proper test overnight to confirm.


----------



## LtMatt

tcclaviger said:


> vcore offset, throw in + offset with 2 notches for 0.0125, should restore performance.
> 
> For SnG I figured I'd toss your timings in seeing as we're on cousin boards, same chip, cousin ram.... what do you know, it worked?! Starting up stability test....and immediate errors for me, something on my config doesn't like it.
> 
> I took a guess at VDIMM, 1.6..?
> View attachment 2558712


Is it stable if you put BCLK back to 100?

Some of your timings are a little different to mine.


----------



## LtMatt

Back to the drawing board.


----------



## tcclaviger

Will play more later the 1t advantage at that speed is significant. Honestly I think IOD/IMC is a bit more robust


----------



## Taraquin

LtMatt said:


> Achieved my best results so far with the following. Need to confirm 100% stability, got my aida64 latency down to 54.5 moving TRFC down to 240.
> View attachment 2558710
> 
> 
> I swear my L3 results are getting worse though. Gonna have to test some games with 4000/2000 vs 3800/1900 to check that performance is increasing where it matters for me, games.


It is because higher voltage on soc, vddg etc eats from your power budget. Find lowest stable/WHEA19-free voltages on all, that will increase your powerbudget. I bet iod, ccd and vddp can be lowered, this will improve L3 perf


----------



## Taraquin

LtMatt said:


> Back to the drawing board.
> View attachment 2558715


Either increase WR to 14 and RTP to 7 or lower RTP to 6, it should be half WR. Scl's should be 4. You may need RCDRD to be 16 to get error free.


----------



## LtMatt

Taraquin said:


> Either increase WR to 14 and RTP to 7 or lower RTP to 6, it should be half WR. Scl's should be 4. You may need RCDRD to be 16 to get error free.


Cheers will try those suggestions.


----------



## paih85

seem like my 5800x3d fail 1900 fclk. below n above 1900 no issue. hurmmmm.


----------



## Blameless

disregard


----------



## LtMatt

Taraquin said:


> Either increase WR to 14 and RTP to 7 or lower RTP to 6, it should be half WR. Scl's should be 4. You may need RCDRD to be 16 to get error free.


Some of your suggestions helped, thanks. I will try to put TWR to 12 and TRTP at 6 at some point. I wonder if the RCDRD was the problem. I remember when I was running 3800CL14 I had to run that at 15 despite the other primaries all being 14 to get rid of that odd memory error.









SCL 4 seems to increase latency Aida64 though so I put it back to 5 for now.


----------



## LtMatt

LtMatt said:


> Some of your suggestions helped, thanks. I will try to put TWR to 12 and TRTP at 6 at some point. I wonder if the RCDRD was the problem. I remember when I was running 3800CL14 I had to run that at 15 despite the other primaries all being 14 to get rid of that odd memory error.
> View attachment 2558733
> 
> 
> SCL 4 seems to increase latency Aida64 though so I put it back to 5 for now.


Spoke too soon. 








No WHEA errors at least, this is just a memory issue. Gonna try TWR 16 and TRTP 8 next since I got to over 3000%. 

Tempted to ditch these crap B Dies and get a better bin life will be much easier.


----------



## pfinch

//removed


----------



## Blameless

Tested the new microcode (the 120A stuff that comes with AGESA 1.2.0.7 firmwares) with both AGESA 1.2.0.6c and 1.2.0.6b...memory OC fubar with both.

Going back to AGESA 1.2.0.6b + old 1024 microcode to see if that restores things.

*Edit:* This wasn't the microcode, it's the buggy MSI firmware I'm using...it reads some manual timing inputs as hex and others as decimal, and this seems to change with memory clock. I'm working around it by putting all the memory timings in as hex values in the AMD OC menus and ignoring the bugged MSI menus.


----------



## ObviousCough

My 5800X3D can post high 1:1 speeds too but not without windows hardware errors. It can do about 1925 without throwing errors(B550 blck stuff).

Maybe i should give some 1.8v changes a shot.


----------



## Blameless

I can confirm that editing the NVRAM contents with the non-existent non-utility not posted earlier by the non-member whose name starts with V and then trails off into a string of vowels not seen since this side of Latin, works for setting CO values on my 5800X3D, at boot, without software intervention.

Will be a nice hold-me-over until AMD releases OCing firmware.


----------



## ObviousCough

Why would AMD release an OC firmware after going out of their way to lock these chips downs as much as they have?


----------



## Blameless

ObviousCough said:


> Why would AMD release an OC firmware after going out of their way to lock these chips downs as much as they have?


Because it's a low-effort way to make the part look better in the segment it's targeting (where it's directly competing with the very tunable 12900K/KF/KS for top gaming CPU). Allowing voltage or power limit increases could increase failure rates, but there are no downsides to allowing undervolting or negative CO values.

It's just a rumor at this point, but having official CO support would probably save more trouble than it would cause. I mean half the people in this thread are BCLK OCing the 5800X3D, some of them are using ASUS boards to manipulate voltages, and I just spend all afternoon modding firmware with a hex editor and using leaked utilities to dump and modify NV memory to use the CO options they hid. An approved method that maintained sane voltage and current limits would be less risky than most of workarounds we've been messing with.


----------



## ObviousCough

Just a hypothesis, but an unlocked 5800X3D would make it real hard to sell low end zen4 with ddr5 and a new board.


----------



## Blameless

ObviousCough said:


> Just a hypothesis, but an unlocked 5800X3D would make it real hard to sell low end zen4 with ddr5 and a new board.


Low-end Zen 4 is going to be a tough sell, no matter what one can do with a 5800X3D. I'm not even sure there will be any low-end Zen 4's, at least not initially.


----------



## Sparrow1408

ObviousCough said:


> Just a hypothesis, but an unlocked 5800X3D would make it real hard to sell low end zen4 with ddr5 and a new board.


AM5 is a New Platform where 3D Cache will likely be on several CPUs. MiLD just released a video saying 3D stacking is a big part of AMD's plans for RDNA 3...






Why not let enthusiasts push their hardware to the break point in preparation? AMD can stop making more 5800X3D available for sale and let the market "Do the needful" for them...

Most people daily driving their systems want to undervolt their CPU and maximize the infinity cache anyway.


----------



## bloot

Blameless said:


> I can confirm that editing the NVRAM contents with the non-existent non-utility not posted earlier by the non-member whose name starts with V and then trails off into a string of vowels not seen since this side of Latin, works for setting CO values on my 5800X3D, at boot, without software intervention.
> 
> Will be a nice hold-me-over until AMD releases OCing firmware.


I do confirm too. However I was unable to set a vcore offset, It does nothing when setting it, maybe I missed to turn on/off some option to make it work.

Many thanks to the unknown user who shared this amazing tool.


----------



## Blameless

bloot said:


> I do confirm too. However I was unable to set a vcore offset, It does nothing when setting it, maybe I missed to turn on/off some option to make it work.


Same. Was unable to set either an offset or fixed voltage.

I suspect the firmware I'm using just doesn't parse those sections/offsets for the 5800X3D, but that's just a guess. I could easily have formatted it wrong or misinterpreted something. Maybe I'll put one of my other chips back in later, set an offset, then dump the values again for comparison.


----------



## Veii

ObviousCough said:


> Just a hypothesis, but an unlocked 5800X3D would make it real hard to sell low end zen4 with ddr5 and a new board.


Don't think so
it would be even more appealing to have launched it with Zen4 at the same tiime
as DDR4 upgrade path plus likely new PSU , will be expensive

it would be great to catch both sides of the coin & have more time to develope substrate further
there was no need to rush with their v-cache technology ~ as proud as they where, no need at all
Was more an ego thing that made sense from a business perspective, and another "ego" thing that they locked it down strongly & are proud of their work.

Not only is OC_MODE disabled, not only is AGESA injecting patches or OTA via Windows & drivers
But AMD also breaks PB2 if you try to override or extend it - as a 3rd anticonsumer safety measure
It will be hard to swallow the pride and unlock them, after having teams sit and focus on locking it down.

Like usually Linus from LTT likes to mention,
"Somebody sit for days or weeks, intentionally to make your life harder. That was his work motivation"
Soo idk how open-minded they will be, especially after their proud "it's locked locked" briefing.
We'll see~


----------



## bmagnien

Not sure if this was posted already; but easy way to run PBO2 utility at startup: CoreCycler - tool for testing Curve Optimizer settings


----------



## tcclaviger

Anyone able to confirm bclk manipulation on 1207 works without external clock gen? If so it opens nearly all AM4 to the prospect of OCing X3D, some.

Seeing very different behavior now.

The non-existant tool should be able to adjust it...

Also have all core CO working via the tool. Sadly FMAX does not.


----------



## Veii

bmagnien said:


> Not sure if this was posted already; but easy way to run PBO2 utility at startup: CoreCycler - tool for testing Curve Optimizer settings


Yes or inject changes in Firmware directly

Modding Carepackage
Sources:

Inspur Systems | Leading Server Solutions for Cloud, Data Center & AI ~ for their Mission Critical & Rack Servers provided AMI Flash Utilities (AFU, DMI, SCE)
Gigabyte Support ~ (U)EFI-Flash with DeviceID bypass
American Megatrends ~ for their AMIDebug™ Rx, POST-Code descriptions & provided assistance
SETUP_IFR-Extractor ~ by SoniX from Winraid & UEFITool (LongSoft Team) contributors borrowed for IFR_Extract to function
IFRExtractor LS ~ by LongSoft Team // remain contributors listed in their corresponding location


Code:


Version History:

AFUWIN v5.13.03.2045
SCEWIN v5.04.1144
DMIWIN v5.24.0081

IFR_SETUP_Extract v0.1
IFRExtractor v0.3 LongSoft
EFIFlash 0.99 + DeviceID Bypass


Package password-protected (PW: V2022), to maintain main upload location
So respect original sources by having to go through the whole post


----------



## TrigrH

Anyone tried the new Agesa on an MSI board?






AGESA_1.2.0.7 - Google Drive







drive.google.com


----------



## paih85

Hi @Veii ,

can you guide how to do it? if you don't mind. newbie here


----------



## nikoli707

Any way to get PJvol's PBO2 Tuner to run at startup and apply a predetermined CO?


----------



## domdtxdissar

TrigrH said:


> Anyone tried the new Agesa on an MSI board?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AGESA_1.2.0.7 - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


I will try the new bios for the Unify x max when i get home from work 

Yesterday i also did some benchmate memory benchmarks.. If i ever get to overclock my cpu higher than 100.375mhz baseclock then your submissions are in danger @tcclaviger 

SuperPi - 1M with BenchMate - 7sec 686ms - Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4567.2MHz
SuperPi - 32M with BenchMate - 6min 4sec 610ms - Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4567.2MHz

PYPrime - 2b with BenchMate - 8sec 397ms

y-cruncher - Pi-25m - 0sec 501ms - Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4461.1MHz
y-cruncher - Pi-1b - 32sec 75ms - Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4461.1MHz
y-cruncher - Pi-2.5b - 1min 32sec 459ms - Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4450MHz

wPrime - 32m with BenchMate - 2sec 340ms - Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4461.4MHz
wPrime - 1024m with BenchMate - 1min 4sec 98ms - Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4466.8MHz

7-Zip - 105612 MIPS - Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4467MHz

PiFast with BenchMate - 17sec 400ms - Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4567MHz

Full 32gigs used in all benchmarks -> no maxmem used.


----------



## PJVol

Veii said:


> Yes or inject changes in Firmware directly


It sounds odd, but default export from my nvram is missing CO per-core vars (allcore is there). Checked both outputs, default and with suppressed/greyedout comment options, as well as in a duplicated names separate file.
Attempt to raw export failed with Error57.
Is en-US the only /lang there?

PS: and yes, maxboost seems locked by PSP (not 100% convinced though, until someone confirm that setting both apml and hsmp registers won't solve it).


----------



## Taraquin

Another undervoltvideo: 



 my german us a bit rusty, but I would guess he got some clockstreching at 1.00v unless binning is golden. My 5600X needs 1.09v (1.06v vdrop) for AC 4.5GHz and 1.05v (1.02v vdrop) for AC 4.4GHz. Even with golden binning I wonder if the typical 4.55GHz SC can be achieved at just 1.0v, AC may be a bit easier. Either way, if perf only drops marginally then the temp reduction for avg cooling is awesome.


----------



## Veii

paih85 said:


> can you guide how to do it? if you don't mind. newbie here


SCEWIN mostly ? ~ NVRAM enforcement ?

Inside are two bat files
~ one to export the NVRAM table, which will by default list all option that come with the Firmware Blob (AGESA), and are not manually removed by Vendors (by default "Visual eBIOS" exports all of them")
~ one to inject the cfg or txt file back into NVRAM, which is applied after a warm boot.

By default in FW, most of the items are either SUPRESS IF or GRAYOUT
But also by default it's configured to export all of them

If you read the Instructional Paper, it is very clearly explained what does what
I hope everyone agrees with having the instructions remain there, although corresponding NDA's where signed by Inspur Systems Inc. 
Can remove them from the upload, as that could cause complications ~ if requested or needed.


Spoiler: Pre-Requirement, Instructions & Overview












Any change you do to SUPRESS items, remains applied on boot
They are suppressed to be visual, yet always have to default to a Value
Current updates enforce every option to have an effective value, and is from ODMs forced to also have a correct default value.
Sadly there are complications between minimum requirements, same as paid wage. 
Soo because UEFI 2.0 standard doesn't exactly "require" the same standards as UEFI 2.1 ~ some Vendors Bios Developer, get a bit too comfortable and leave duplicate options in there
This increases boot time but it's a dealable mess. 
In our case "we" have to be the one who fixes this mess and delete duplicates or fix empty values.

ASUS boards have quite a lot of duplicates, ASRock know less, MSI has also quite a few reused duplicates and nearly all of them keep reusing bios.strings (translations) from 3-4 generations older.
So also Intel systems or specific Easter E-Sport caffee exclusive translations and long-time gone options.
A little mess, but bearable 

Every option has to have only one * on it, which is the default it loads
NVRAM is volatile but backed up. There are two partitions and NVRAM is timestamp signed.
It keeps filling and signing it's little packages one under the other, soo also every option you "import" from a foreign config, will inject and extend into the "database of toggles" which also can be called "BIOS"
Every option you import shifts in a virtual own offset, but only the Target Token is important

Hence UEFI 2.0 limitation only allow one option with the same "Setup Question" to exist, the user has to sometimes CMOS clear and load bios defaults ~ in order to restore an overfilled NRAM package or accident extension of options that should not exist





PJVol said:


> It sounds odd, but default export from my nvram is missing CO per-core vars (allcore is there). Checked both outputs, default and with suppressed/greyedout comment options, as well as in a duplicated names separate file.
> Attempt to raw export failed with Error57.
> Is en-US the only /lang there?
> 
> PS: and yes, maxboost seems locked by PSP (not 100% convinced though, until someone confirm that setting both apml and hsmp registers won't solve it).


That can happen when X ODM is forced to erase options from users eyes ~ now a more common thing when "general user" has access to tools and public tools need to be shared to conform with stricter security procedures








This blob is taken from an ASUS bios where instead of fully removing the option, they simply corrupted it
The same is done to cutting away +500MHz boost override, just here it fully disappeared 

Usually for current security measurements to work, the firmware needs to be exported with allowed to modify setup_var's
I noticed mine "turned on" again, yet have write access
Sadly am not sure










PJVol said:


> Attempt to raw export failed with Error57.
> Is en-US the only /lang there?


RAW PLDM export is a bit different, but you can export everything that BCP lists as language strings
By default it does export the englisch one now

I have to check if i have a more complete error list of SCE
Doublecheck if it's by coincidence a setup_var "disable" issue.
Shouldn't be an admin permission driver load-issue
Sorry, can't be much of a help ~ but you can export NVRAM blob differently from a file and build an "access-table" tho that is much more complicated than a system dump
Also check if anti-virus is allowing kernel access & "System Information" Windows, via registry is allowing kernel access


----------



## RedF

I have recorded the throttling behavior with HWInfo. Think that fits in here.


----------



## Blameless

TrigrH said:


> Anyone tried the new Agesa on an MSI board?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AGESA_1.2.0.7 - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


No B550M PRO-VDH WIFI.

Unsurprisingly my 80 dollar business class board is getting the short stick on firmware, again.



nikoli707 said:


> Any way to get PJvol's PBO2 Tuner to run at startup and apply a predetermined CO?


Several.









CoreCycler - tool for testing Curve Optimizer settings


I don't fully understand everything PJVol is saying, but adding a command line call would be all that is necessary, unless that just doesn't work for some reason. I don't know if it works or not because I don't know what command to call. I'd expect to be able to use rundll32...




www.overclock.net







RedF said:


> I have recorded the throttling behavior with HWInfo. Think that fits in here.
> View attachment 2558828


This is similar to what I see in most heavy loads.

There is also a 4.3GHz cap (the "CPU High Temperature Clock Limit") when at 85C or higher, irrespective of load.


----------



## Nighthog

I saw my 5800X3D go all the way to 105C at one time with Y-cruncher. Might have bugged out as I was getting a ton of WHEA errors when I was trying 2000FCLK at the moment it happened.


----------



## PJVol

Veii said:


> This blob is taken from an ASUS bios where instead of fully removing the option, they simply corrupted it
> The same is done to cutting away +500MHz boost override, just here it fully disappeared


Mine CO is not corrupted but the per-core var is completely missing:


Spoiler: CO



Setup Question = Curve Optimizer
Map String = Curve Optimizer
Token =26 // Do NOT change this line
Offset =184
Width =01
Options =[00]Disabled // Move "*" to the desired Option
[01]All Cores
 *[02]Per Core

// SUPPRESS
// Setup Question = All Core Curve Optimizer Sign
// Map String = All Core Curve Optimizer Sign
// Token =27 // Do NOT change this line
// Offset =185
// Width =01
// Options =[00]Positive // Move "*" to the desired Option
// *[01]Negative
// ENDOF SUPPRESS

// SUPPRESS
// Setup Question = All Core Curve Optimizer Magnitude
// Map String = All Core Curve Optimizer Magnitude
// Token =28 // Do NOT change this line
// Offset =186
// Width =02
// Value =<6>
// ENDOF SUPPRESS

Setup Question = GFX Curve Optimizer
...



and boost override is here as well, though setting it to enable doesn't helped )


Spoiler: BO



Setup Question = Max CPU Boost Clock Override
Map String = Max CPU Boost Clock Override
Token =74 // Do NOT change this line
Offset =BD
Width =04
Options =[00]0MHz // Move "*" to the desired Option
[19]25MHz
[32]50MHz
[4B]75MHz
[64]100MHz
[7D]125MHz
[96]150MHz
[AF]175MHz
[C8]200MHz
[E1]225MHz
 *[FA]250MHz
[113]275MHz
[12C]300MHz
[145]325MHz
[15E]350MHz
[177]375MHz
[190]400MHz
[1A9]425MHz
[1C2]450MHz
[1DB]475MHz
[1F4]500MHz

// SUPPRESS
// Setup Question = CPU Boost Clock Override
// Map String = CPU Boost Clock Override
// Token =78 // Do NOT change this line
// Offset =CA
// Width =01
// Options =_[01]Enabled__ // Move "_" to the desired Option
// [00]Disabled
// ENDOF SUPPRESS





Veii said:


> RAW PLDM export is a bit different, but you can export everything that BCP lists as language strings


Not PLDM, but just raw output, as described under "Creating a New NVRAM Variable"
binary.exe /o /c /l list.txt /n nvars.txt /h hii.db 
- this was errored #57

PS: anyways, not that i needed to edit CO, just remembered when i wrote the pbo2tuner function saveToBios, the per-core CO option wasn't mapped to any acpi wmi calls. There were entries just for cpu allcore CO and gfx CO.


----------



## paih85

Veii said:


> SCEWIN mostly ? ~ NVRAM enforcement ?
> 
> Inside are two bat files
> ~ one to export the NVRAM table, which will by default list all option that come with the Firmware Blob (AGESA), and are not manually removed by Vendors (by default "Visual eBIOS" exports all of them")
> ~ one to inject the cfg or txt file back into NVRAM, which is applied after a warm boot.
> 
> By default in FW, most of the items are either SUPRESS IF or GRAYOUT
> But also by default it's configured to export all of them
> 
> If you read the Instructional Paper, it is very clearly explained what does what
> I hope everyone agrees with having the instructions remain there, although corresponding NDA's where signed by Inspur Systems Inc.
> Can remove them from the upload, as that could cause complications ~ if requested or needed.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Pre-Requirement, Instructions & Overview
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any change you do to SUPRESS items, remains applied on boot
> They are suppressed to be visual, yet always have to default to a Value
> Current updates enforce every option to have an effective value, and is from ODMs forced to also have a correct default value.
> Sadly there are complications between minimum requirements, same as paid wage.
> Soo because UEFI 2.0 standard doesn't exactly "require" the same standards as UEFI 2.1 ~ some Vendors Bios Developer, get a bit too comfortable and leave duplicate options in there
> This increases boot time but it's a dealable mess.
> In our case "we" have to be the one who fixes this mess and delete duplicates or fix empty values.
> 
> ASUS boards have quite a lot of duplicates, ASRock know less, MSI has also quite a few reused duplicates and nearly all of them keep reusing bios.strings (translations) from 3-4 generations older.
> So also Intel systems or specific Easter E-Sport caffee exclusive translations and long-time gone options.
> A little mess, but bearable
> 
> Every option has to have only one * on it, which is the default it loads
> NVRAM is volatile but backed up. There are two partitions and NVRAM is timestamp signed.
> It keeps filling and signing it's little packages one under the other, soo also every option you "import" from a foreign config, will inject and extend into the "database of toggles" which also can be called "BIOS"
> Every option you import shifts in a virtual own offset, but only the Target Token is important



nice. it's working. thanks


----------



## Blameless

PJVol said:


> It sounds odd, but default export from my nvram is missing CO per-core vars (allcore is there).


This is also the behavior on my ASRock board, even with my 5800X which had per-core COs set at the time of the dump.

It might also explain why saved profiles on my ASRock board never restore COs. Not sure what ASRock is doing.


----------



## PJVol

Blameless said:


> It might also explain why saved profiles on my ASRock board never restore COs. Not sure what ASRock is doing.


Seems like this. Though profiles on my board backed/resored fine (if we talking about those saved in eeprom slots).
Atm digging through smuV11/V12 dxe blocks - found a lot of interesting info for Cezanne and Vermeer.
Need a way to get SMN:: mmio mapped address for the CPU Downcore register.


----------



## Mask

I am also experiencing 4.45 GHz max for single core boost. Haven't seen 4.55 GHz yet. I did try setting C-States to enabled in BIOS. On MSI B550 Tomahawk with 1.2.0.6c.

edit: I guess I'm a lurker


----------



## bmagnien

YO! A ton of new Asus boards just got their AGESA 1207 updates: [Übersicht] - Ultimative AM4 UEFI/BIOS/AGESA Übersicht

Testing on my x570-i now...will update


----------



## Hueristic

Veii said:


> Yes or inject changes in Firmware directly
> 
> Modding Carepackage
> Sources:
> 
> Inspur Systems | Leading Server Solutions for Cloud, Data Center & AI ~ for their Mission Critical & Rack Servers provided AMI Flash Utilities (AFU, DMI, SCE)
> Gigabyte Support ~ (U)EFI-Flash with DeviceID bypass
> American Megatrends ~ for their AMIDebug™ Rx, POST-Code descriptions & provided assistance
> SETUP_IFR-Extractor ~ by SoniX from Winraid & UEFITool (LongSoft Team) contributors borrowed for IFR_Extract to function
> IFRExtractor LS ~ by LongSoft Team // remain contributors listed in their corresponding location
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Version History:
> 
> AFUWIN v5.13.03.2045
> SCEWIN v5.04.1144
> DMIWIN v5.24.0081
> 
> IFR_SETUP_Extract v0.1
> IFRExtractor v0.3 LongSoft
> EFIFlash 0.99 + DeviceID Bypass
> 
> 
> Package password-protected (PW: V2022), to maintain main upload location
> So respect original sources by having to go through the whole post


Looks like we need a new RebelsHaven.


----------



## Veii

Hueristic said:


> Looks like we need a new RebelsHaven.


It makes me happy, when things change towards positive. Be it ever so slightly
Less hassle now, when there are more sources and leaking or lose of trust ~ is not needed.
A much better approach with security.
Reflective is inevitable, when you work against consumer.
But currently the way it is, is a much more favorable experience ~ when industry works with you 

It's not like we are forced to do active bounty & exploit hunting
Much much more favorable situation right now, not the usual "fine, i'll fix it myself" ~ mood
Just slightly bothersome, but at least decent. Deal-able with~

EDIT:
Happy that approach changed nearly after-night
Let's hope it stays that way~~

EDIT2:
Just finally needs a GUI to make it more user friendly and then deserve own spotlight/thread
https://github.com/EverythingTechTutorials/AMISCE-gui
Something along the line of this, but less dependent on actually leaked old modules.
A more adaptive approach that doesn't "leak" non approved versions. Can't approve the dev's approach, yet surely was decent work
We'll see~


----------



## RedF

Injection works great with the CO. Unfortunately, Boost override not ^^.

Thanks @Veii : )


----------



## RedF

Can someone help me GMD Off 1T to run?
I get BSOD in Win when I go to 1T.

Is there a voltage that can stabilize this?

RAM is F4-3600C16-16GTZR


----------



## MrHoof

Most boards want AddrCmdSetup at 56 to be able to clean boot at 1T worth a try.

edit: Also can be ClkDrvStr being to low at 24ohm can help to be increased to 40ohm


----------



## RedF

Boot is not a problem. As soon as I start e.g. Aida64 mem bench I get a BSOD.

I have already tried 56 and 90 up and down values.


----------



## MrHoof

Can you post a Zentimings screenshot?


----------



## RedF




----------



## MrHoof

My guess would be VSOC to low for 1967fclk or tRFC needs a little more voltage.
And most people are running RTT at 7/3/3 with DR.
edit: Also could make a post in [Official] AMD Ryzen DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread | Page 941 | Overclock.net always helpfull people in there.


----------



## blu3dragon

Not kept up with the whole thread... Looks like @Veii has now posted a way to set curve offsets in bios.

On my B550-F, I just did the upgrade from a 5800x with BIOS 2604.
If I load an existing profile in the bios (that was saved from the 5800x), the PBO menus (both asus and AMD) become visible 🙃 
Only after a reboot do they get hidden 

I can set curve offsets there...
I tried setting boost clock override, but ended up with boost being completely disabled (so clock fixed at 3.3GHz with a 0MHz offset, or at 3.5GHz with a 200MHz offset) :-(

PBO2 Tuner after a reboot. You can see that it picked up the values set in BIOS  









Not sure if these are completely stable yet. I need to change the way I test, since P95 with no SSE is too light a load now...

Memory timings copied from my daily 5800x setup. Seems OK so far...


----------



## BHS1975

blu3dragon said:


> Not kept up with the whole thread... Looks like @Veii has now posted a way to set curve offsets in bios.
> 
> On my B550-F, I just did the upgrade from a 5800x with BIOS 2604.
> If I load an existing profile in the bios (that was saved from the 5800x), the PBO menus (both asus and AMD) become visible 🙃
> Only after a reboot do they get hidden
> 
> I can set curve offsets there...
> I tried setting boost clock override, but ended up with boost being completely disabled (so clock fixed at 3.3GHz with a 0MHz offset, or at 3.5GHz with a 200MHz offset) :-(
> 
> PBO2 Tuner after a reboot. You can see that it picked up the values set in BIOS
> 
> View attachment 2558894
> 
> Not sure if these are completely stable yet. I need to change the way I test, since P95 with no SSE is too light a load now...
> 
> Memory timings copied from my daily 5800x setup. Seems OK so far...
> View attachment 2558896


I got the same board. Can I try your saved profile?


----------



## Veii

RedF said:


> Boot is not a problem. As soon as I start e.g. Aida64 mem bench I get a BSOD.
> I have already tried 56 and 90 up and down values.
> 
> 
> RedF said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2558883
Click to expand...

Very odd, makes me wonder if SETUP timings even function
Problem is, GDM to 1T is a too big jump, GDM to 2T is fine
SETUP timings after value 32 change their behavior
0-32 33-62 or 63 , i forgot *
You should not be able to set "90"

GDM and setup timings i can see causing trouble
GDM changes dynamically Cmd & Adress timing, yet SETUP timings are fixed by MCLK delays
Same issue if you dynamically run RTT_WR and tCKE + SETUP timings
tCKE and SETUP timings are MCLK based and _WR does shift it dynamically.
Both together, are an issue

Start with following changes
tRDWR 10, tWR 16, 2T (no GDM)
Drop cLDO_VDDP to where it has to be ~ 900-925mV. This is purely for MCLK but will influence how DIMM voltage and dimm amperage in general behaves
(same as ClkDrvStr does and sideeffects of high procODT, do)
Drop both ProcODT to 32 and cLDO_VDDP to 900
IO-Die can stay high, CCD could need to be upped to 980mV

CAD_BUS:
40-20-30-24
40-20-40-20
30-20-30-24
60-20-20-24
60-20-40-20
Pick one

Higher ClkDrvStr should be the value that actually powers the dimms
Not high RTT_PARK or high procODT or high cLDO_VDDP.
It was thought for over a year "wrong" , well differently ~ but more than suboptimal
Get that dynamic GDM away ~ soo it actually exposes if powering is sufficient or not.
Pure 1T then will need adaption to board layout issues or trace issues ~ as very rarely boards are capable to run 1T without SETUP-Timings (added trace delay)

* People use 55 or 56 there, rarely 58 but powering fix has higher priority. You don't need SETUP timings with 2T and it's not a big difference to 1T.


----------



## blu3dragon

BHS1975 said:


> I got the same board. Can I try your saved profile?


So apparently it doesn't work if I save to and load from a usb drive. I guess I am never upgrading or clearing cmos on this board again!


----------



## TrigrH

Looking at CPU-Z multiplier constantly flickers between x35.6 and x44.5 every second or so, is this normal boost behavior? (B550 Unify X)


----------



## Veii

TrigrH said:


> Looking at CPU-Z multiplier constantly flickers between x35.6 and x44.5 every second or so, is this normal boost behavior? (B550 Unify X)


Zen3 updates bellow 2 digit ms. CPU-Z reports in 1000ms
Soo you miss at least 50 updates in the hidden, before you read "one" out

EDIT:
Yes normal 
Might even want to put thread scheduler on energy optimized mode


----------



## RedF

Veii said:


> Very odd, makes me wonder if SETUP timings even function
> Problem is, GDM to 1T is a too big jump, GDM to 2T is fine
> SETUP timings after value 32 change their behavior
> 0-32 33-62 or 63 , i forgot *
> You should not be able to set "90"


Sry 90 was an error in my biological memory ( Sleepmode ) .

59 was the setting with which I have come the farthest.

Now it runs with








@1966 i got some WHEAs ( 2T )
need to Tweak voltages i think.








have some streching
Loaded an old 5800X setup and set a negative VCore offset.

Edit:








does not run.

BTW does anyone know what this is in NVRAM?








sounds like I want to turn this on.


----------



## Blameless

RedF said:


> BTW does anyone know what this is in NVRAM?
> View attachment 2558937
> 
> sounds like I want to turn this on.


I'm not exactly sure what it's supposed to do, but it's a listed option on my MSI boards, and is hidden, but enabled, by default on my ASRock board.

I couldn't bench a consistent difference with it enabled or disabled on my MSI boards (there is an MSI specific setting that I usually set it to) and never bothered disabling it on my ASRock.


----------



## Nighthog

RedF said:


> BTW does anyone know what this is in NVRAM?
> View attachment 2558937
> 
> sounds like I want to turn this on.


This option is Available with the MSI X570S Unify-X board as a normal memory option with a few extra related settings.
I've not really seen what it actually does but had no detrimental effect of using it either way.
You would expect better latency but it's so marginal I've not seen if it does anything yet. Not tested it specifically as I've been trying to get stability prioritized.


----------



## RedF

Very nice, with the old 5800X profiles I can use the CO and the Vcore settings.

I can also save them as a new profile etc.


----------



## Veii

RedF said:


> BTW does anyone know what this is in NVRAM?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sounds like I want to turn this on.


It by default was enabled for me
Should be related to tPHYRDL stuff
Somebody who has issues with missmatching dimms - has to try this
Else didn't notice a change either, but then didn't look too much into it
Maybe ASUS MemTweakIt would show it


----------



## tcclaviger

domdtxdissar said:


> I will try the new bios for the Unify x max when i get home from work
> 
> Yesterday i also did some benchmate memory benchmarks.. If i ever get to overclock my cpu higher than 100.375mhz baseclock then your submissions are in danger @tcclaviger
> 
> SuperPi - 1M with BenchMate - 7sec 686ms - Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4567.2MHz
> SuperPi - 32M with BenchMate - 6min 4sec 610ms - Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4567.2MHz
> 
> PYPrime - 2b with BenchMate - 8sec 397ms
> 
> y-cruncher - Pi-25m - 0sec 501ms - Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4461.1MHz
> y-cruncher - Pi-1b - 32sec 75ms - Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4461.1MHz
> y-cruncher - Pi-2.5b - 1min 32sec 459ms - Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4450MHz
> 
> wPrime - 32m with BenchMate - 2sec 340ms - Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4461.4MHz
> wPrime - 1024m with BenchMate - 1min 4sec 98ms - Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4466.8MHz
> 
> 7-Zip - 105612 MIPS - Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4467MHz
> 
> PiFast with BenchMate - 17sec 400ms - Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4567MHz
> 
> Full 32gigs used in all benchmarks -> no maxmem used.


I noticed  Nice work!

1 tip: when pushing for sub 90 second ycruncher 2.5b and sub 30 second 1b, be ready for heat, it's rough. Saw 82c ccd temp at 10c water only 1.26v on the cores.

Honestly I'm shocked someone hasn't wiped my whole early shipping bench entries out already, it's only a matter of time before someone willing to throw normal Zen3 voltage + high bclk capable vga + LN2 posts a like 130+ bclk bench session up and sets something I can't match (looking at you Roman/Splave/One of the Russians I can't ever catch).
--------------------
This is what I've settled on for daily config. WHEA silencer in use, it's a gaming/toy PC not a datacenter/mission critical system, I don't care if its quietly/pointlessly throwing false errors into the void with 0 or near 0 impact....

25 rounds 1usumus v3 table in TM5, tons of ycruncher and other benchmark testing with no errors/crashes etc, if WHEA errors weren't logged and visible to me I'd have no indication it's doing it.

It's well under 1.3v at all times, and scores 98-99% of sketchy barely stable BM settings so, happy medium.








EDIT: 1t GDM off with no setup makes it into windows, show big bandwidth gains, like 61650ish and 53.2ns, but I cannot tune out errors, probably just past he outer edge of IMC/DIMM capability.


----------



## tcclaviger

Taraquin said:


> Another undervoltvideo:
> 
> 
> 
> my german us a bit rusty, but I would guess he got some clockstreching at 1.00v unless binning is golden. My 5600X needs 1.09v (1.06v vdrop) for AC 4.5GHz and 1.05v (1.02v vdrop) for AC 4.4GHz. Even with golden binning I wonder if the typical 4.55GHz SC can be achieved at just 1.0v, AC may be a bit easier. Either way, if perf only drops marginally then the temp reduction for avg cooling is awesome.


I'm finding 5950x CCD 0 ~= 5800X3D binning.

I tried to duplicate his tests, out of curiosity, and here is what I found:

Significant stretching by that point, well before that point actually. As negative offset drops svis vcore too far from stock VID the CPU kicks back and raises VID until it's at 1.294. Once VID is at latch, 1.3, and vcore is still too low to satisfy FIT, it's not just stretching, it's actually pulling back multiplier too to stay stable.

For someone on a hot system, it might not be as evident. I'm sure CO could do better than flat neg offset to get low power and high perf. So I tested it...

Full -30 CO with no offset, and - offsets used to reduce even further:

~1.144 vcore no stretching detected. -5c from stock
~1.119vcore initial signs of stretching, still acceptably close to stock performance. -6.4c from stock
~1.075vcore roughly 10% reduced scores. Still reports full speed. - 14c from stock.
Mildly dishonest or non-malicious uninformed video imho, there's no way imho AMD would throw a best binned EPYC die randomly into a 5800x3d.


----------



## BHS1975

blu3dragon said:


> So apparently it doesn't work if I save to and load from a usb drive. I guess I am never upgrading or clearing cmos on this board again!


Are you able to run 1900 fclk?


----------



## RedF

Progress : )















Now 2000 WHEA free.

Let's see if I can still get something down with the VDIMM.


----------



## blu3dragon

BHS1975 said:


> Are you able to run 1900 fclk?


On 1800 right now and yet to try higher.

1900 went through a period of refusing to post when I tried it with a 5800x in the past, although I could post at 2000 but then had WHEAs.


----------



## blu3dragon

What's the best way to test for unstable core offsets on a 5800x3d?

With the 5800x I was using a p95 script to run a single thread and cycle through the cores. That was very good to find instability, but the boost clocks were much higher.

With my 5800x3d it seems stable at -30 on all cores. However, with the lower boost clock the power draw and temps for a single core are also lower and I'm wondering if I need to find a better way to stress test it.


----------



## BHS1975

How do I inject CO into the BIOS?


----------



## RedF

BHS1975 said:


> How do I inject CO into the BIOS?


1. run Export_V.bat
2. edit Bios.cfg
3. execute Inject_V.bat
4. reboot


----------



## BHS1975

RedF said:


> 1. run Export_V.bat
> 2. edit Bios.cfg
> 3. execute Inject_V.bat
> 4. reboot


I'm getting an unable to load driver message.


----------



## AXi0M

Hello, i've been lurking the thread since i got my 5800X3D. i need some tips for gaining higher FLCK. i can get 1900Mhz no problem at as low as 1.025v SOC, but i can't even get 1933 to be WHEA free at 1.2v SOC is there anything i can do to help stabilize?


----------



## LazyGamer

AXi0M said:


> Hello, i've been lurking the thread since i got my 5800X3D. i need some tips for gaining higher FLCK. i can get 1900Mhz no problem at as low as 1.025v SOC, but i can't even get 1933 to be WHEA free at 1.2v SOC is there anything i can do to help stabilize?


Same boat as you, ASUS Strix X570-i. Just got the new AGESA 1207 BIOS today, and testing it at stock before I try pushing FCLK above 1900 again. (I mean just, as in 30 minutes ago)

See if you've got a new BIOS update first, taking all the usual precautions.


----------



## RedF

I had to decrease the VSOC to become WHEA free.


----------



## RedF

BHS1975 said:


> I'm getting an unable to load driver message.


You have to start the .bat under CMD with admin rights.


----------



## BHS1975

LazyGamer said:


> Same boat as you, ASUS Strix X570-i. Just got the new AGESA 1207 BIOS today, and testing it at stock before I try pushing FCLK above 1900 again. (I mean just, as in 30 minutes ago)
> 
> See if you've got a new BIOS update first, taking all the usual precautions.


Still can't post at 1900 with new bios. Running at 1866 with 1V sock and 800mv vddg


----------



## RedF

If u cant Post u may be have to adjust ProcODT ,RTT and DrvStr.


----------



## Clukos

My 5800X3D seems like it doesn't mind -40 all core in CB23 at least










Shame AMD locked this chip so much :/


----------



## RedF

As far as I know this only goes down to -30


----------



## anonjoe

Clukos said:


> My 5800X3D seems like it doesn't mind -40 all core in CB23 at least
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shame AMD locked this chip so much :/


Where can i get PBO 2 Tuner app ?


----------



## Blameless

Clukos said:


> My 5800X3D seems like it doesn't mind -40 all core in CB23 at least


Are you certain that values below -30 are doing anything more than -30? I can set lower, but they have no effect on voltage, clocks, or power consumption vs. -30.

To the best of my knowledge, below -30 isn't functional on any firmware that supports the 5800X3D, or anything newer than about AGESA 1.1.0.0.


----------



## BHS1975

RedF said:


> You have to start the .bat under CMD with admin rights.


Thanks it worked.


----------



## Zeryth

Blameless said:


> Are you certain that values below -30 are doing anything more than -30? I can set lower, but they have no effect on voltage, clocks, or power consumption vs. -30.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, below -30 isn't functional on any firmware that supports the 5800X3D, or anything newer than about AGESA 1.1.0.0.


When I tried -40 allcore it actually did improve my cinebench score. So I guess it works? For as much as this is anecdotical evidence.


----------



## Blameless

Zeryth said:


> When I tried -40 allcore it actually did improve my cinebench score. So I guess it works? For as much as this is anecdotical evidence.


How much did it improve it vs. -30?

Check HWiNFO to get actual clocks/volts while Cinebench is running with both values.


----------



## Zeryth

About 200 points in C20, voltages, clocks and temps didn't seem to change too much.


----------



## Blameless

Zeryth said:


> About 200 points in C20, voltages, clocks and temps didn't seem to change too much.


Sounds like run to run variance if nothing else is changing. Another ten points on CO should be roughly 30mV less on each core, and/or a higher sustained effective clock. Peak power should also have fallen another ~5w.


----------



## Blameless

Went back and retested AGESA 1.2.0.6c + the newest 5800X3D microcode (from an ASUS AGESA 1.2.0.7 BIOS) on my MSI B550M PRO-VDH. Can't find any performance differences between 1.2.0.6b and 1.2.0.6c, nor between microcode 1204 and 120A.

I can confirm the earlier issues I was having were due MSI's broken UEFI only accepting decimal inputs in fields that want hex values.


----------



## masterkaj

Anyone know of any other settings to try to get the multiplier to boost to stock settings? Mine is still locked at 4450. I tried changing my Global C States from auto to enabled but it’s still locked to 44.5 peak per core. I’m on the latest bios for my Asus Crosshairs Hero VII X470 board.


----------



## BHS1975

RedF said:


> If u cant Post u may be have to adjust ProcODT ,RTT and DrvStr.


I've tried several different combos. Do you have any suggestions? Should try and get 1933 whea free?


----------



## tcclaviger

Same observation Bl


masterkaj said:


> Anyone know of any other settings to try to get the multiplier to boost to stock settings? Mine is still locked at 4450. I tried changing my Global C States from auto to enabled but it’s still locked to 44.5 peak per core. I’m on the latest bios for my Asus Crosshairs Hero VII X470 board.


From those I've observed with this problem on other Zen 3s, this usually comes down to bios issue setting or misconfig from board partner, or windows power plan issue.

If default bios + high performance win power plan don't get you 45.5 sounds like a wonky bios file from Asus.

On an otherwise optimized defaults, Try setting
Bclk to 100.2
Force oc mode disabled: enabled
C-State control enabled
Core performance boost enabled

If that doesn't do it, something weird going on. Which bios version?

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I recall seeing this often on Zen 2 launch, and often it came down to software, people having bloatware running while trying to test single core performance preventing max boost. iCue, Aura, AISuite, process lasso, throttle stop, so many other bloatware apps can cause this.


----------



## RedF

BHS1975 said:


> I've tried several different combos. Do you have any suggestions? Should try and get 1933 whea free?


Let's see, take a zentimings screenshoot.


----------



## MNKyDeth

Has anyone had a 5800x3d that failed?
Ie, wouldn't boot?

I have a Gigabyte x570 Aorus Extreme. And then bought a Asus ROG crosshair 8 extreme.

I have gskill 3600 MHz ram.
And the CPU would boot on the gigabyte board. All values at stock. I did try 3800mhz and such so I did minor FCLK overclocking on the gigabyte board.

When I got the Asus board it booted fine. Made sure everything was working correctly at stock.

Rebooted and put the FCLK to 1900 and ram to 3800 like I had on the gigabyte board.

And nothing. No boot.... The Asus board says memory test 00 then just goes to memory test on the lcd screen. With A5 as the error code on the motherboard.

I put the CPU back into the gigabyte board and exact same error code. A5 no boot, no screen nothing happens.

I tried resetting the bios on both boards. I tried reflashing both board bioses through the flashback. Still nothing. Same error code.

PSU wise I am using a seasonic 1300w prime gold. And that is connected to an Eaton UPS so I know the power delivery was stable.

But, since I have two motherboards and two different sets of ram and nothing works.

I think the CPU is dead.  Was curious if anyone else had a 5800x3d that didn't turn out so good?


----------



## Nighthog

@MNKyDeth
Too early to know. Just bad luck if nothing more serious.
We don't know how fragile the stacked chiplet technology is.

It's not unheard of getting a bad CPU from AMD that shortly dies after usage. RMA time from your purchase place or if they do not handle warranty, get it from AMD.


----------



## RedF

@MNKyDeth 

Take a look at the pins to see if any thermal paste got on them. Or something else hangs in between.


----------



## Zeryth

@MNKyDeth
Usually CPUs either live very long or die right away. It's kind of the rule with all electronics in general. So you're probably unlucky and got a dud. I remember reading this from the RMA rep of a large retailer. They always saw a spike of RMA requests right after buying the product and then over time it would slowly creep up again.


----------



## BHS1975

RedF said:


> Let's see, take a zentimings screenshoot.


----------



## domdtxdissar

Manage to break magical 400fps cpu game limit in SotTR 

5800x3d @ stock 4450mhz
Average CPU Game = 406 fps


----------



## xR00Tx

domdtxdissar said:


> Manage to break magical 400fps cpu game limit in SotTR
> 
> 5800x3d @ stock 4450mhz
> Average CPU Game = 406 fps
> View attachment 2559035
> View attachment 2559036


Nice score! 

Mine is very similar to yours.
For now, the best SOTR results I got so far with 5800x3d @ stock are:

SMT On:








SMT Off:








Still need to work better on the memory timings as I'm getting 1 error around 3000% on Karhu test.
(any help is welcome)


----------



## Blameless

masterkaj said:


> Anyone know of any other settings to try to get the multiplier to boost to stock settings? Mine is still locked at 4450. I tried changing my Global C States from auto to enabled but it’s still locked to 44.5 peak per core. I’m on the latest bios for my Asus Crosshairs Hero VII X470 board.


Are you certain it's never boosting past that point? Heavy loads, even single-threaded ones, will cause my sample to dip to 4.45GHz, but it does regularly reach 4.55GHz.

These parts are also quite temperature sensitive and will start losing boost clock around 75C.


----------



## finnadip

smt off


----------



## xProlific

I am getting an error after a few hours with DOCP enabled any idea what the issue might be?


----------



## LtMatt

xR00Tx said:


> Nice score!
> 
> Mine is very similar to yours.
> For now, the best SOTR results I got so far with 5800x3d @ stock are:
> 
> SMT On:
> View attachment 2559059
> 
> 
> SMT Off:
> View attachment 2559060
> 
> 
> Still need to work better on the memory timings as I'm getting 1 error around 3000% on Karhu test.
> (any help is welcome)


Great score, this bench favours Nvidia GPUs! 

I get the same error at 3000% too, not been able to solve it. Got some better DIMMS on the way just in case.


----------



## OCmember

How does TM5 anta777 Extreme test do? Any errors there?


----------



## pfinch

someone noticed a multicore decrease at agesa 1207?


----------



## RedF

Late Errors tRFC?


----------



## the_aeon

pfinch said:


> someone noticed a multicore decrease at agesa 1207?


Yes, 200mhz less in CR20, I have put agesa 1206 again, waiting for a non-beta version


----------



## Blameless

Well, I bricked my MSI board (USB BIOS flashback button failed about half a dozen times in a row, then stopped even lighting up), so I'm moving my 5800X3D to my ASRock sooner than I planned to. Just need to finish lapping it first. This sample was fairly uneven and a bit concave...took a sheet of 150 grit to get through all the nickel and flatten it out.


----------



## Clukos

The x570 Tomahawk won't even let me disable SMT, how sad. I hope the BIOS improves a bit because this is really bare bones...


----------



## xR00Tx

pfinch said:


> someone noticed a multicore decrease at agesa 1207?


What I noticed was a slightly lower L3 Cache performance (ran Aida several times). 
Went back to agesa 1206b and got better performance again.


----------



## tcclaviger

I found no difference between 1206b and 1207...however ....

That assumes Asus bios files labeled as 1206b...are actually 1206b and not 1206c or 1207 in disguise.

I assume the differences observed are most likely changes in bios auto/default behavior not necessarily evident to the user and not AGESA itself. For example turning PBO to enabled in 1207 cuts performance dispute no visible indication anything has changed.



MNKyDeth said:


> Has anyone had a 5800x3d that failed?
> 
> Ie, wouldn't boot?
> 
> 
> 
> I have a Gigabyte x570 Aorus Extreme. And then bought a Asus ROG crosshair 8 extreme.
> 
> 
> 
> I have gskill 3600 MHz ram.
> 
> And the CPU would boot on the gigabyte board. All values at stock. I did try 3800mhz and such so I did minor FCLK overclocking on the gigabyte board.
> 
> 
> 
> When I got the Asus board it booted fine. Made sure everything was working correctly at stock.
> 
> 
> 
> Rebooted and put the FCLK to 1900 and ram to 3800 like I had on the gigabyte board.
> 
> 
> 
> And nothing. No boot.... The Asus board says memory test 00 then just goes to memory test on the lcd screen. With A5 as the error code on the motherboard.
> 
> 
> 
> I put the CPU back into the gigabyte board and exact same error code. A5 no boot, no screen nothing happens.
> 
> 
> 
> I tried resetting the bios on both boards. I tried reflashing both board bioses through the flashback. Still nothing. Same error code.
> 
> 
> 
> PSU wise I am using a seasonic 1300w prime gold. And that is connected to an Eaton UPS so I know the power delivery was stable.
> 
> 
> 
> But, since I have two motherboards and two different sets of ram and nothing works.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the CPU is dead.  Was curious if anyone else had a 5800x3d that didn't turn out so good?


Sounds like familiar C8E behavior lol. This is what would happen when I was trying to run C14 at 3800 with tRDWR/tWRRD set to 10/2, moving to 12/2 or 11/3 fixed it.

Also: Set flex key to safeboot turns your reset button into safe boot, saves a lot of reaching in and pressing it yourself.

I have a potential fix, below:

USB Flashback using the 1203c (1203c will boot just fine with X3D but doesn't boost) bios, here: Asus C8E 0402 Download
once back in bios shutdown machine, switch bios to 2nd slot, flash 0801 (0602, 0604, 0606, and 0801 all work as expected for X3D) in 2nd slot from here: C8E 0801 Beta Bios.

Mine came like, 0604 in bios A and 0402 in bios B, and I realized it was helpful because C8E has at least 4 difference POST failure recovery modes, swapping to 0402 basically did a more thorough bios reset than just "reset bios" button when "reset bios" button wasn't fixing POST challenges.

AMD failsafe Mode - When memory training fails after 5 attempts, resets a bunch of junk in bios like Global C-State Control.
RAM Training Asus hard failure mode - When save bios and instantly get F9 > 00 > Memtest. If the timings/votlages/resistances are too far from functional it will get stuck here. BIOS reset usually fixes it, not always, sometimes requires swapping to 1203c bios then back to work again. Means something is corrupted.
RAM Training Asus soft failure mode - You save changes and exit, system power fully off for cold boot > F9 > cold boots again into auto recovery with 1 sentence warning message on POST screen and f1 to enter bios.
Safe Mode boot button - Often can recover from otherwise un-postable condition that doesn't auto recover like soft failure mode. When hard failure mode occurs but timings/voltages/resistances are very close to working, this can sometimes get you back into bios.

BIOS RESET - It doesn't do what it says it does... I know it's not a full reset because the unnamed tool manipulated options persist through a bios reset button push e.g. if I set -10 CO via the tool, shutdown, reset bios using button and boot I'll still have -10 CO assigned in BIOS.

For 1900/3800 initial post I would suggest instead of full auto reliance set to 1866/3733 then reboot and set 1900/3800 and the below, this seems to work most consistently for me on this board from a fresh BIOS flash:
SOC 1.10v
CLDO VDDP 1v
ProcODT: 43.6
RttNom: Disabled
RttWr: RZQ/3
RttPark: RZQ/1
DrvStr: All can be auto
Setups: All can be auto

I can't necessarily accurately explain WHY this works so consistently, but it always works for me *¯\(ツ)/¯ *


----------



## Blameless

Have it up and running in my ASRock B550 Phantom Gaming ITX/AX now...

Unfortunately, there is even less control over the CPU in this board than there was in my cheapo MSI B550M PRO-VDH. Going to need to edit a lot of stuff.

_Edit: _Most of what's missing that's relevant (LLC is most notable) doesn't even show up in the NVRAM dump.


----------



## Blameless

Alright, managed to load a saved profile from my 5800X that seems to have restored my LLC and other VRM settings that are now hidden. I then dumped that NVRAM profile and added my -30 all-core CO curves to it. Did a few quick tests and it appears everything is working as it should.

I'm using exactly the same memory timings on my Team B-die that I was with the 5800X, but with much lower SoC, DDG, and PLL voltages. Seems stable so far. AIDA64 bandwidth is very similar to my 5800X, but latency, as expected, is about 4.5ns worse on memory and ~2ns worse on L3 cache.

WinRAR is silly fast on this thing...over 51MiB/s in the benchmark.


----------



## Blameless

Found another potentially serious issue on this ASRock board....all the core VIDs are locked together. On my MSI board there was a ~60mV spread between lowest and highest voltage core, but on this ASRock board all cores are given the highest voltage. This is increasing temps and power a fair bit, hampering all core boost, even with -30 CO.

Edit: Silly me, I updated HWiNFO and forgot to renable snapshot polling. Also, there were some remnant voltages set too high in my 5800X profile...so I had to take care of those.


----------



## Sparrow1408

Sparrow1408 said:


> I tried increasing VCore SOC up to 1.25V and VDDP18 up to 2.0V
> 
> I believe the WHEA errors are caused by the AMD Boost/Voltage algorithm as the Prime95 threads themselves aren't failing with the WHEA errors but I also didn't let the software run for an hour+ because it's not stable; Eventually they may error but letting it run to find out wasn't a priority. Since the machine is not Prime95 stable at 1933 I didn't bother to much with 1967 or 2000 FLCK.
> 
> @1967 1:1:1 Memory WAS verified at boot with XMP toggled on "just because" but if it throws WHEA errors in windows then that information doesn't mean much.
> 
> Will mess with it more when a new BIOS is released.


I couldn't find much on Hynix MJR memory but it seems to work well with the 5800X3D. I did find an overclocking spreadsheet but wasn't able to add my contribution...

Zen RAM OC Leaderboards - Google Drive 

Wasn't happy with all the WHEA errors the chip was spitting with above 1900 FLCK so I tightened the timings at 1900 again. If anyone knows anything about Hynix MJR and sees areas of improvement I'm open to suggestions. The sticks I have seem to really want to stick to 18-22-22-22-42 and have a tRFC of around 260ns. tCWL below 18 or tRTP below 14 will BSOD during memtest.... 

For those that where able to get 2000 1:1:1 WHEA free and have some tips that would also be welcome.


----------



## RedF

@Sparrow1408 Try 16-19-19-21-36-52-497 ( were my CJR timings @ 1900 1,38V )


----------



## bloot

Could disable SMT thanks to the NVRAM injection tool, 103.6875 bclk almost hit 400 fps on shadow of the tomb raider benchmark


----------



## Sparrow1408

RedF said:


> @Sparrow1408 Try 16-19-19-21-36-52-497 ( were my CJR timings @ 1900 1,38V )


Tried 16-20-20-20-40 @ 1.4v and failed to boot. The primaries are about the best that kit will do.


----------



## RedF

Sparrow1408 said:


> Tried 16-20-20-20-40 @ 1.4v and failed to boot. The primaries are about the best that kit will do.


I had to decrease the VSOC to become free at 2000 WHEA.
And increase the IOD.


----------



## Nighthog

Tested BCLK a little with the 5800X3D. It's kind of a hassle to get the MSI board want to Boot with BCLK in the first place.

CPU-Z Validation 102.25BCLK
CPU-Z M:* 6668.7*points, S:* 645.8*points

Didn't tune it in any real manner just was trying to get it to Boot for now.


----------



## dansi

Nighthog said:


> Tested BCLK a little with the 5800X3D. It's kind of a hassle to get the MSI board want to Boot with BCLK in the first place.
> 
> CPU-Z Validation 102.25BCLK
> CPU-Z M:* 6668.7*points, S:* 645.8*points
> 
> Didn't tune it in any real manner just was trying to get it to Boot for now.


does 5800X3D do BCLK?

A few Zen3 chips i tested and failed with as little as 100.5 BCLK.

Zen2 were still able to roun 102~103 BCLK


----------



## Nighthog

dansi said:


> does 5800X3D do BCLK?
> 
> A few Zen3 chips i tested and failed with as little as 100.5 BCLK.
> 
> Zen2 were still able to roun 102~103 BCLK


Does it like any other Zen3 does with BCLK.
I have a third party SATA controller that does around 102.5BCLK before it drops the drives. I had hoped it would do better but will have to look at something better.

How do you think all 5800X3D coreclock OC was done up-to now? BCLK was the only way.
X570 SATA controller is trash, it can't manage with any BCLK increase without giving you issues to boot. Gotta use NVME or third-party controllers.

There is the issue with the PB using higher clocks overall so it can effect stability so stock voltage settings might not work with higher BLCK.

5800X3D is gimped from the start with regard to frequency so there is headroom to take.


----------



## RedF

Nighthog said:


> Does it like any other Zen3 does with BCLK.
> I have a third party SATA controller that does around 102.5BCLK before it drops the drives. I had hoped it would do better but will have to look at something better.
> 
> How do you think all 5800X3D coreclock OC was done up-to now? BCLK was the only way.
> X570 SATA controller is trash, it can't manage with any BCLK increase without giving you issues to boot. Gotta use NVME or third-party controllers.
> 
> There is the issue with the PB using higher clocks overall so it can effect stability so stock voltage settings might not work with higher BLCK.
> 
> 5800X3D is gimped from the start with regard to frequency so there is headroom to take.


Maybe it is my SATA HDD and not the NVMEs.? I must test it. I do not come higher than 100.8 BCLK.


----------



## tcclaviger

X3D is fine to at least 110bclk. Drives, GPU, USB, etc might not like it, but the CPU doesn't care.

It will need some extra voltage to successfully hold 4650+ish all core with full stability.

Then at bclk over 106 you fight with the reverse voltage behavior causing 1t loads to crash since it's a lower VID than all core on x3d, to fix it, cap boost top speed to 44.5 using PBO2 Tuner.


----------



## Taraquin

Sparrow1408 said:


> Tried 16-20-20-20-40 @ 1.4v and failed to boot. The primaries are about the best that kit will do.


Try 18 21 21 21 39 rc 60
Wtrs 4
Wtrl 12
Wr 16
Rtp 8

That's about it, maybe cl17 can work with 2t.


----------



## Monsicek

Blameless said:


> I'm using exactly the same memory timings on my Team B-die that I was with the 5800X, but with much lower SoC, DDG, and PLL voltages. Seems stable so far. AIDA64 bandwidth is very similar to my 5800X, but latency, as expected, is about 4.5ns worse on memory and ~2ns worse on L3 cache.


I would like to know how do you control PPL, I have x570 Steel Legend and my BIOS does not have voltage control for this rail. Or it has different name I am not aware of.

Thanks for help.


----------



## masterkaj

Blameless said:


> Are you certain it's never boosting past that point? Heavy loads, even single-threaded ones, will cause my sample to dip to 4.45GHz, but it does regularly reach 4.55GHz.
> 
> These parts are also quite temperature sensitive and will start losing boost clock around 75C.


It’s peaking at 4450, I can see the peak in HW Info over days worth of sample points. My 5900x boosted to advertised single core boost speeds. It may just be the 1206b bios for the X470 Crosshair Hero VII is bugged.

My temps are actually better than I thought. From what I read I thought it would be higher than my PBO 5900x but it is actually lower.


----------



## Blameless

Monsicek said:


> I would like to know how do you control PPL, I have x570 Steel Legend and my BIOS does not have voltage control for this rail. Or it has different name I am not aware of.
> 
> Thanks for help.


I'm referring to the "CPU 1.8v", which based on what it influences, is likely some sort of PLL voltage for distributing clock signals.



masterkaj said:


> It’s peaking at 4450, I can see the peak in HW Info over days worth of sample points. My 5900x boosted to advertised single core boost speeds. It may just be the 1206b bios for the X470 Crosshair Hero VII is bugged.


I ran into the same issue with my ASRock board. It was either due to newer microcode or bugged remnants of the 5800X profile I was using to manipulate hidden settings. After I went back to old microcode and added the crucial settings into a clean profile by hand with a hex editor, I got my 4.55GHz boost back.

In your case, I'd see what happens if you restore default settings and if that doesn't work, patch the old 1204 microcode in over the 1205 or 120A that the Crosshair Hero VII is using.


----------



## Teussi

Any suggestion to get the 5800X3D whea 19 free? Currently running SOC: 1100mv, VDDG IOD 1050mv ja VDDG CCD 950mv 
Asus rog strix b550F gaming, latest bios. 
can run 3800, any higher and wheas become in prime95


----------



## LazyGamer

Teussi said:


> Any suggestion to get the 5800X3D whea 19 free? Currently running SOC: 1100mv, VDDG IOD 1050mv ja VDDG CCD 950mv
> Asus rog strix b550F gaming, latest bios.
> can run 3800, any higher and wheas become in prime95


I had to push VDIMM way up to get to 1900 - 1.525v there on DOCP (XMP) with GDM off, 2T and XMP auto timings.
Also the VDDCR CPU and SOC voltages to 1.125v each.
Not sure I want to push it much further without relaxing primaries!


----------



## Blameless

Ordered a second ASRock B550 Phantom Gaming ITX/ax to replace my MSI board (still not sure if I want to bother RMAing an 80 dollar board, or if I want to cut the socket out of it). It's got some annoying firmware issues, but I hate it the least out of pretty much every AM4 board I've tried. Plus, having two of them will make it easy for me to dump settings from my 5800X and apply them to the 5800X3D without having to swap CPUs around or engage in too much risky trial and error. Though I should also get in the habit of taking better notes...

Anyway, with a combination of AGESA settings dumps, an old 5800X BIOS profile to work from, and patching in older microcode (I've decided I like 1204 from the pre AGESA 1.2.0.5 firmware), I'm quite pleased with how this 5800X3D is running in my ASRock board.

Still double checking stability, but my 1900/3800 15-15-13-27-fake T1 with tight subs profile seems to work fine at the same 1.48 vDIMM as on my 5800X. This is with the same 1025mV SoC, 850mV DDP, 900mV DDG CCD, 950mV DDG IOD, and ~1.75v PLL that I used on my test bench.

Temps are a bit warmer, due to using a smaller cooler in a closed SFF case that isn't in a basement, but I can still hold 4.45GHz in moderately heavy all-core loads and regularly get spikes to the full 4.55GHz in lighter loads.

Current memory settings:









And a quick CPU-Z bench (100.00MHz reference clock, -30 all-core CO, so far, so stable):


----------



## BHS1975

Blameless said:


> Ordered a second ASRock B550 Phantom Gaming ITX/ax to replace my MSI board (still not sure if I want to bother RMAing an 80 dollar board, or if I want to cut the socket out of it). It's got some annoying firmware issues, but I hate it the least out of pretty much every AM4 board I've tried. Plus, having two of them will make it easy for me to dump settings from my 5800X and apply them to the 5800X3D without having to swap CPUs around or engage in too much risky trial and error. Though I should also get in the habit of taking better notes...
> 
> Anyway, with a combination of AGESA settings dumps, an old 5800X BIOS profile to work from, and patching in older microcode (I've decided I like 1204 from the pre AGESA 1.2.0.5 firmware), I'm quite pleased with how this 5800X3D is running in my ASRock board.
> 
> Still double checking stability, but my 1900/3800 15-15-13-27-fake T1 with tight subs profile seems to work fine at the same 1.48 vDIMM as on my 5800X. This is with the same 1025mV SoC, 850mV DDP, 900mV DDG CCD, 950mV DDG IOD, and ~1.75v PLL that I used on my test bench.
> 
> Temps are a bit warmer, due to using a smaller cooler in a closed SFF case that isn't in a basement, but I can still hold 4.45GHz in moderately heavy all-core loads and regularly get spikes to the full 4.55GHz in lighter loads.
> 
> Current memory settings:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And a quick CPU-Z bench (100.00MHz reference clock, -30 all-core CO, so far, so stable):


Will it boot at 1900 fclk without any tweaking?


----------



## Blameless

BHS1975 said:


> Will it boot at 1900 fclk without any tweaking?


As far as I can tell, my sample is fully stable at 1900 FCLK with below stock voltages. I need to knock PLL down below 1.7v to see a single WHEA bus interconnect error every few days.

However, even 1933 is problematic...I might be able to stabilize it, but it will need so much voltage that there is no way it will be improving performance.


----------



## IamVoo

RedF said:


> Maybe it is my SATA HDD and not the NVMEs.? I must test it. I do not come higher than 100.8 BCLK.


Even 100.5 gives me the same issues. I think it's drive related the system boots even at 102 but once the OS starts to load I either get endless spinning, lockups, or restarts. I do have a sata driver connected that im not even using. Also isn't one of the x570 NVMEs on the chipset and the other on the CPU if i remember correctly? Would that make a difference? I think i might be on the chipset, my nvme is plugged into the farther away m.2 (for heat reasons) which i assume is probably the chipset one while the m.2 closer to the cpu is running off the cpu?


----------



## Nighthog

You can't use the X570 SATA ports if you do BCLK. You get various issues as described above by @IamVoo .


----------



## blu3dragon

B550-F 2803 (agesa 1.2.0.7)
It removed all the profiles from within the bios.
When I tried one from USB it didn't work either. I guess this is one way to fix this bug that allows PBO menu to be unlocked 🤣😭😂


----------



## blu3dragon

blu3dragon said:


> B550-F 2803 (agesa 1.2.0.7)
> It removed all the profiles from within the bios.
> When I tried one from USB it didn't work either. I guess this is one way to fix this bug that allows PBO menu to be unlocked 🤣😭😂
> View attachment 2559189


Reflashed back, and can load from USB, but that doesn't unlock PBO on this board. I guess only way back now is to swap CPUs again :-(


----------



## JSHamlet234

blu3dragon said:


> B550-F 2803 (agesa 1.2.0.7)
> It removed all the profiles from within the bios.
> When I tried one from USB it didn't work either. I guess this is one way to fix this bug that allows PBO menu to be unlocked 🤣😭😂
> View attachment 2559189


My experience with ASUS boards has always been that updating the BIOS deletes all profiles and that profiles associated with other BIOS versions will not load. I'm not sure if that changed in recent times, but to me that would be expected behavior.


----------



## blu3dragon

JSHamlet234 said:


> My experience with ASUS boards has always been that updating the BIOS deletes all profiles and that profiles associated with other BIOS versions will not load. I'm not sure if that changed in recent times, but to me that would be expected behavior.


I've always been successful loading a profile from at least the previous bios version. Sometimes they clear the profiles save in the bios, sometimes not.
I'd go nuts if I had to re-enter all my memory timings and fan profiles every time 😅


----------



## blu3dragon

Went back and forth and it won't load a profile that was actually saved with this CPU either. That is a pain.


----------



## BHS1975

Whats weird is mine will boot at 1897 fclk but not 1900 
or 1903. If I could oc with out disabling the boost I would use 1897.


----------



## Requiem4u

blu3dragon said:


> B550-F 2803 (agesa 1.2.0.7)
> It removed all the profiles from within the bios.
> When I tried one from USB it didn't work either. I guess this is one way to fix this bug that allows PBO menu to be unlocked 🤣😭😂
> View attachment 2559189


I have Dark Hero and same thing happened when I updated bios. Nothing to do with CPU, I still have 5800X.

Edit: Luckily I have saved my bios settings in text-mode to USB (Ctrl + F2)


----------



## Blameless

blu3dragon said:


> B550-F 2803 (agesa 1.2.0.7)
> It removed all the profiles from within the bios.
> When I tried one from USB it didn't work either. I guess this is one way to fix this bug that allows PBO menu to be unlocked 🤣😭😂
> View attachment 2559189


What does the profile look like in a hex editor?

Chances are you can just flip a few values and make it think it's for the correct CPU/version.


----------



## tcclaviger

I've never seen saved profiles survive a bios flash on an Asus board, in like 12+ years of Asus across many boards. Not saying it can't happen, but it's not normal to persist after a bios update.

After playing with the X3D in the C6E and C8E, I have come to the conclusion the C6E is the better board for it, maybe the C6H as well (don't own one).

C8E DOCS - useless for x3d
C8E Voltage Suspension - useless for x3d
C8E Bigger VRM - useless for x3d
C6E has more refined BCLK options
C6E has garbage software voltage readouts, so DMM should be used to verify, C8E voltages are essentially spot on in HWINFO
C8E boot times are a big improvement vs C6E
x370 has more BCLK friendly behavior
C6E lack of dual bios is a trade where you lose some redundancy but gain less finicky behavior.

I am stuck with the C8E for now because of my flakey GPU. The performance hit is more than I want to deal with dropping to PCIE 3.0 8x from PCIE 4.0 8x. If it worked at 3.0 x16 I'd swap back to C6E no hesitation, perhaps when 6950xt releases....

@Blameless Took a little page from what you've been doing, now that I've locked down memory/bclk settings and started trimming back voltages with good results.
1.065 SOC (Min for no errors)
1.49 vdimm (Min for no errors at 4100)
0.9475 ccd (Still trimming)
0.974 IOD (Still trimming)
1.875 PLL (Still trimming)

Passed 20 Rounds of TM5 1usmus v3.

There's definitely something odd going on with the Asus boards and 1t boosting from what I'm seeing in this thread. Multiple 63x CPU-Z single threads posted, are those with 630+ stock 1t CPU-Z results owners of chips with core 0 being the 1/1 perf core? With CPU loaded core temps of 42c max during all core test, I get the following:
100 BCLK ~ 6520/622
102.8 BCLK ~ 6700/636
103.6 BCLK ~ 6760/642
104.2 BCLK ~ 6810/649

~3800 memory: cpuz
~4100 memory: cpuz

The 1t boosting behavior seems to be more consistent at hitting 45.5 on non-Asus boards at this point.


BCLK OC Notes:

My best results are obtained with tailored CO at -5|-5|-10|-15|-12|-15|-12|-10 paired with 104.2 bclk and +0.0125 offset. When disabling SMT, offset goes to +0.01875 or it won't post. All voltages remain well under 1.3vcore, usually around 1.24v-1.26v. Cores 0 and 1 are stable at -15, but -5 gives a touch better 1t performance.

Running much over 105.6 for daily is going to be unlikely, as 44.5x105.6 is an all core frequency of 4700, pretty much the upper limit of where an X3D is likely to be stable using sub 1.3v. Single core at this point can be a stability issue, 45.5 x 105.6 is 1t of 4805, not a problem, but the voltage is. It will try to push only around 1.26v for 4805, possible on some chips, but not likely to be stable for the majority.

107+ requires extra voltage, above 1.3, 107+ results in clocks well into the voltage/freq diminishing returns area. It can be made to run here just fine, but its not ideal.


----------



## Blameless

tcclaviger said:


> I've never seen saved profiles survive a bios flash on an Asus board, in like 12+ years of Asus across many boards. Not saying it can't happen, but it's not normal to persist after a bios update.


Should still be able to save them to disk and edit/load them later.


----------



## tcclaviger

Yes, absolutely on the saved profiles.

Turns out I type that out then decided to tweak something and find more daily stable bclk headroom LMAO. 105 is working now. Running out of RAM speed headroom at 59:3 strap though 105 is probably the end.

105 BCLK Gentle Daily Voltages CPUZ







Time to get stability tested here (misreported data blacked out).

aaand passed:


----------



## blu3dragon

tcclaviger said:


> Yes, absolutely on the saved profiles.
> 
> Turns out I type that out then decided to tweak something and find more daily stable bclk headroom LMAO. 105 is working now. Running out of RAM speed headroom at 59:3 strap though 105 is probably the end.
> 
> 105 BCLK Gentle Daily Voltages CPUZ
> View attachment 2559197
> 
> Time to get stability tested here (misreported data blacked out).
> 
> aaand passed:


Do you have WHEAs at those settings?
I'm playing around now, but even at 1900 fclk I get the occasional WHEA.


----------



## Blameless

blu3dragon said:


> Do you have WHEAs at those settings?
> I'm playing around now, but even at 1900 fclk I get the occasional WHEA.


Unless you have a lot of headroom to increase SoC, DDG, and PLL/1.8v, your part probably isn't going to be fully stable at 1900+. You could try 1933 or 1966 in the hopes it's just a hole, but this is rare.


----------



## tcclaviger

blu3dragon said:


> Do you have WHEAs at those settings?
> 
> I'm playing around now, but even at 1900 fclk I get the occasional WHEA.




It does yes, I use the silencer to not get the spam/performance loss.



As I posted in the silencer thread, I've long term tested with silencer and never saw any issues associated with using it on my 5950.



After decades playing with PCs I've learned some lessons...I have dual backups of all irreplaceable documents, 1 local,1 off-site so I couldn't care any less about potential corruption of data etc. I also have backup parts on hand.

Correcting them isn't possible on my CPU at these speeds, but I can minimize them. Going too high on SOC/VDIMM/PLL causes more errors. There's a window where they're fewest. 

- When I say I have some, I don't get any sitting idle or running TM5, they show up during like OCCT Large CPU tests.


----------



## Nighthog

Yay... Managed to get Windows loaded @ 5200Mts with the 5800X3D.

A fluke or what? I have no idea why it worked this time and not the others for the most part. Seems not to be stability related.

Zentimings refused to start though. Could not verify the other settings it trained with.

EDIT: Got a freeze trying to load AIDA64, so seems something isn't right after all.


----------



## Veii

Such empty sheet for X3D








Zen RAM OC Leaderboards


Zen 4 Sheet is sorted and verified submissions LOCKED each Thursday. Please provide proof of stability via Y-Cruncher AND a memory stability test, otherwise your submission will be removed. Refer to the FAQ for more info. MEMORY,PROCESSOR Username,Memory Latency,L3 Latency,DIMMs,Die Type,Rank,Me...




docs.google.com


----------



## RedF

Veii said:


> Such empty sheet for X3D
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zen RAM OC Leaderboards
> 
> 
> Zen 4 Sheet is sorted and verified submissions LOCKED each Thursday. Please provide proof of stability via Y-Cruncher AND a memory stability test, otherwise your submission will be removed. Refer to the FAQ for more info. MEMORY,PROCESSOR Username,Memory Latency,L3 Latency,DIMMs,Die Type,Rank,Me...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docs.google.com


i will post mine this weekend


----------



## spcysls

Here are my whea free settings at stock bclk on an msi b550 board.


----------



## Blameless

Getting some weirdness with AIDA64's system stability test:









Was looking into the boost behavior of my setup again as boosting over 4.45GHz, while it does occur, is quite rare since I moved this part to my ASRock board. However, what's more confounding is that the part doesn't seem to throttle due to temperature. Hottest core was reaching almost 94C and the the peak CCD temp hit 106C, but it was still holding ~4.45GHz actual and effective clock.

Anyone else seeing anything similar?


----------



## Sparrow1408

spcysls said:


> Here are my whea free settings at stock bclk on an msi b550 board.


1.25 SOC voltage? Is that safe to daily? I thought 1.2 was the max recommend.


----------



## blu3dragon

My current WHEA free settings (1800 FCLK). VDIMM at 1.45.




















I had to bump VSOC by 1 click to remove all WHEAs, but then dropped VSOC LLC to 1 to try and reduce SoC power under load. (My 5800x worked at these settings with stock SoC voltage)
Curve offsets seem stable at -30 all core, but I'm not sure of the best way to test that, so conservatively reduced it on the better cores so that they all requested around the same VID under load.

I might settle at 1800FLCK and then tune memory timings some more...

At 1900FCLK with below voltages I get an occasional WHEA. TM5 1usmus_v3.cfg seems a good way to trigger these.









1966 seems stable, but then I get floods of WHEAs with TM5 or y-cruncher NTT tests (although strangely it can go for a while without any as well).
Have not tried pushing voltages much more than above yet.


----------



## tcclaviger

Blameless said:


> Getting some weirdness with AIDA64's system stability test:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was looking into the boost behavior of my setup again as boosting over 4.45GHz, while it does occur, is quite rare since I moved this part to my ASRock board. However, what's more confounding is that the part doesn't seem to throttle due to temperature. Hottest core was reaching almost 94C and the the peak CCD temp hit 106C, but it was still holding ~4.45GHz actual and effective clock.
> 
> Anyone else seeing anything similar?


Not the high temp issue but I'm finding some very bizarre voltage/effective clock/performance quirks. 

85 should be first speed step down due to temp. That board doesn't have a raised value in bios as default when you dump it using the tool does it?



Sparrow1408 said:


> 1.25 SOC voltage? Is that safe to daily? I thought 1.2 was the max recommend.


Anecdotal evidence suggests potential degregation even below 1.2 on hot CPUs.


----------



## Blameless

Sparrow1408 said:


> 1.25 SOC voltage? Is that safe to daily? I thought 1.2 was the max recommend.


I sure wouldn't run it.



tcclaviger said:


> 85 should be first speed step down due to temp. That board doesn't have a raised value in bios as default when you dump it using the tool does it?


Most of what I've seen suggests peak boost is reduced even sooner.

85C is the High Temp Clock Limit on all Vermeer(X) parts as far as I am aware. The 5800X3D shouldn't be boosting past 4.3GHz if it's 85C or above.

I haven't altered the temp limits and even if they weren't set to AUTO, we aren't supposed to be able to increase them...just reduce them. I have been adjusting variables in exported BIOS profiles, basing my changes off my 5800X settings on older firmware, that I have little feedback to see what they're actually doing however. Might have to wipe and reflash to see if the behavior persists on unmodified firmware.


----------



## tcclaviger

Yeah it's weird, the whole "black box" mess makes everything far more confounding than it needs to be really.


----------



## BHS1975

blu3dragon said:


> My current WHEA free settings (1800 FCLK)
> 
> View attachment 2559261
> 
> 
> I had to bump VSOC by 1 click to remove all WHEAs, but then dropped VSOC LLC to 1 to try and reduce SoC power under load. (My 5800x worked at these settings with stock SoC voltage)
> Curve offsets seem stable at -30 all core, but I'm not sure of the best way to test that, so conservatively reduced it on the better cores so that they all requested around the same VID under load.
> 
> I might settle at 1800FLCK and then tune memory timings some more...
> 
> At 1900FCLK with below voltages I get an occasional WHEA. TM5 1usmus_v3.cfg seems a good way to trigger these.
> 
> View attachment 2559262
> 
> 1966 seems stable, but then I get floods of WHEAs with TM5 or y-cruncher NTT tests (although strangely it can go for a while without any as well).
> Have not tried pushing voltages much more than above yet.


Have you tried 1866? I have no choice but to use 1866 because 1900 won't post no matter what settings I try. I have yet to see any WHEAs with only 1v SOC.


----------



## blu3dragon

BHS1975 said:


> Have you tried 1866? I have no choice but to use 1866 because 1900 won't post no matter what settings I try. I have yet to see any WHEAs with only 1v SOC.


Not yet. I went from 1800 -> 1900 and then pushed to 1966 last night. Could probably get 1900 stable, but not sure it's worth it to push so much SoC voltage for the small gain. This chip is on the edge of needing more voltage at 1800 already. I needed to bump VSOC from 1.0 to 1.0125 to make it clean.

The good news is I don't have any issue with post, or even TM5 (aside from the WHEAs).

What BIOS version are you on?
There were some versions that would not post at 1900 on my 5800x, but then still post at 1933 up to 2000 (even though I never had those WHEA free either).


----------



## Veii

Still having to find that bellow 1.3v SOC, degradation on Vermeer's Interposer
The degradation is X high boost with Y fixed core voltage
SystemOnChip adjusts linkspeed but does not adjust FCLK dynamically


Veii said:


> Minimum Requirements of VSOC mV @ Frequency
> 
> 3200 - 980-1000mV
> 3400 - <1040mV
> 3600 - <1060mV
> 3800 - <1075mV
> 4000 - <1137,5mV
> 4067 - 1165-1200mV
> 4200 - 1187,5-1225mV
> maximum being 1300mV, while 2100 defaults to 1250mV SOC.
> 
> Negative effects of high vSOC are not clear
> But to my experiments and long benchmarks, i haven't seen any sign of degradation nor issues hitting 2133 FCLK


Repost from 2020
Maximum being actually 1.35v and for monolithic 1.45v
But this is XOC and sub 20° required. Maybe even sub 10° Metric System

" I " wouldn't push beyond 1.3v but only it depends on procODT state and frequency

Voltage by itself like on DRAM remains irrelevant
But unlike DRAM, degradation happens in a timely manner and spike manner. Time is the only variable here
I am not sure if 1usmus will ever share his findings ~ if he even can , without being accused of copying AMDs findings
But samples are more robust than AMD defaults to ~ much more robust
Substrate is fantastic, but instability is AMDs concern. Well noise based instability, rather.

" I " would only push beyond 1.3v, with low voltages around it
But also would push 68ohm procODT only with 1.15v SOC or lower. Situation depended

Same " i " would push peak of 2.13v VDD18, but beyond 1.96v it already messes up with too many voltage values and SNR ratio is horrible
At the very end, voltage required and minimum voltage all depend on signal-to-noise ratio.
Some have leaky substrates, some have non leaky but slow substrates.
Negative scaling you figure much earlier, before you even meet peak voltage limits that do "any kind of damage"

You'd need to proactively try to mess with it, and let it overheat ~ yet somehow bypass FIT , to really damage the substrate
All "virtual number" frequencies , still are load-balanced and will pro-actively throttle, if you overvolt it. It's intelligent enough

EDIT:
Given that B2 is a new colored substrate and more efficient ~ high values wont be needed
Compare Matisse (LP) vs Vermeer (HP) 
Or 1700X vs 2700X

EDIT 2:
You can push 1.68v vcore into the sample by accident, at "full frequency" and it will not die or degrade
Frequency you see will be strongly throttled but not it as a value. It's capable to protect itself and/or will shutdown earlier before it can even "degrade"
As long as FIT is functional of course ~ which goes also for OC_MODE (FIT is functional there too, to some extend)


----------



## BHS1975

blu3dragon said:


> Not yet. I went from 1800 -> 1900 and then pushed to 1966 last night. Could probably get 1900 stable, but not sure it's worth it to push so much SoC voltage for the small gain. This chip is on the edge of needing more voltage at 1800 already. I needed to bump VSOC from 1.0 to 1.0125 to make it clean.
> 
> The good news is I don't have any issue with post, or even TM5 (aside from the WHEAs).
> 
> What BIOS version are you on?
> There were some versions that would not post at 1900 on my 5800x, but then still post at 1933 up to 2000 (even though I never had those WHEA free either).


Im on the ASUS 2803 bios for the B550-F.


----------



## blu3dragon

BHS1975 said:


> Im on the ASUS 2803 bios for the B550-F.


Ok, same with settings above. I guess it is CPU related then. Could also be memory settings.


----------



## tcclaviger

Anyone tried CO tuning, then disabling CPPC on X3D yet? Seems like a good candidate since all cores are capable of hitting max frequency and remaining stable, unlike many 5900/5950s which cannot hit max freq on all cores.

Only just now occured to me, as I know some people have observed improved gaming performance regarding hitching/lows with CPPC disabled.

Going to try it out here shortly see what comes of it.


----------



## Blameless

Looks like my temp issue was a combination of LLC and GPU load leading to increased intake temps. I did find the hex value to adjust LLC in my exported profile and used the next most droopy step than I was running on my 5800X (which pulls more current and needs stronger LLC).

However, I'm still at a loss to explain the behavior at high temps. Voltage increases to maintain clocks, but it seems to be ignoring temperature in the process. At maximum load, the voltage difference between zero CO and -30 all core CO is almost nothing, but the latter clocks 250MHz higher. Those 4.45GHz all core effective clocks hold even when the cores are past 90C.

I also lost display of CPU PPT limit with my custom profile, so I think I make have broken some sort of limiter by too aggressively changing variables that I thought were the voltages I was looking for...



tcclaviger said:


> Anyone tried CO tuning, then disabling CPPC on X3D yet? Seems like a good candidate since all cores are capable of hitting max frequency and remaining stable, unlike many 5900/5950s which cannot hit max freq on all cores.
> 
> Only just now occured to me, as I know some people have observed improved gaming performance regarding hitching/lows with CPPC disabled.
> 
> Going to try it out here shortly see what comes of it.


I typically run with CPPC enabled, but CPPC preferred cores disabled, which makes all cores #1 priority to CPPC. Started doing this with my 5800X which had an actual best core that didn't match the CPPC ordering at all. Haven't noticed much difference either way though, with any single CCX part.


----------



## tcclaviger

Ok now I'm seeing weird stuff, setup as you are, with CCPC on Preferred Off. Performance is actually slightly improved in a variety of tests, small amount.

CO doesn't actually seem to be pulling voltage away?! With CPPC On and Preferred On, I was seeing 1.12v SVI2/DMM roughly for each core during corecycler.

CPPC On Preferred Off has them hanging out at 1.21v SVI2/DMM on the same workload, same temps, same power draw, same speed....

Should not be possible, some sensor is lying, it has to be as Ohms law is not optional lol.

I suspect dLDO reporting/behavior is influencing the output of vcore via SVI2 when CPPC Preferred is Off.


----------



## Blameless

CPPC preferred on or off doesn't change that behavior for me. CO is reducing voltage under light-moderate load at lower temps, but at heavier loads and higher temps it just boosts clocks.

This isn't entirely unexpected as CO was never a simple voltage offset; it moves the F/V curve and if there is voltage head room and boost limits aren't satisfied, that should mean higher boosting rather than less voltage, at least to some extent.

EDIT: Whatever has been causing my PPT limit to set itself to zero is also responsible for boost frequency and CO behavior I'm seeing on my ASRock board. I just turned off a bunch of fixed power state stuff and behavior went back to what I saw on my MSI board. Time for some more trial and error to isolate this.

Edit2: Well, that was unexpected...it's the LCLK DPM settings


----------



## RedF

With this you can access some hidden things in the BIOS. Could not find CO at first glance, but maybe it is still hiding in there.
SmokelessCPU/UniversalAMDFormBrowser


----------



## Blameless

@tcclaviger I had my LCLK DPM settings disabled for testing and for some reason this disables the PPT and temperature limits on my 5800X3D (which is a neat trick for some loads, if one minds the heat), which was leading to the odd CO/boost behavior.


----------



## tcclaviger

Have observed the same Blameless, I lose EDC/TDC/PPT with LCLK DPM disabled. Threw me at first, thought HWINFO was bugged or something.

Throwing my 5950x in real quick, I need a bios dump that isn't fubar because of x3d options paring and get per core CO set in bios instead of using PBO Tuner at log in.

-27|-27|-27|-22|-30|-27|-27|-27 Turned out to be AVX2 stable limit for my LLC4/Offset+0.00625 settings. On 5950x, I would drop EDC a bit at this point to increase boost aggressiveness and reduce the CO values so I could get the -30 to be less than 30 and find that core's actual limit, but X3D doesn't seem to follow the EDC lower = opportunistic boost aggressiveness increase I observe on my 5950x.

Starting to think these CCDs may be binned for quality range between cores being close vs CCD0 on 5900/5950 and 5800x where there are a couple great cores and usually a couple meh cores on the same CCD.


----------



## MNKyDeth

tcclaviger said:


> I found no difference between 1206b and 1207...however ....
> 
> That assumes Asus bios files labeled as 1206b...are actually 1206b and not 1206c or 1207 in disguise.
> 
> I assume the differences observed are most likely changes in bios auto/default behavior not necessarily evident to the user and not AGESA itself. For example turning PBO to enabled in 1207 cuts performance dispute no visible indication anything has changed.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like familiar C8E behavior lol. This is what would happen when I was trying to run C14 at 3800 with tRDWR/tWRRD set to 10/2, moving to 12/2 or 11/3 fixed it.
> 
> Also: Set flex key to safeboot turns your reset button into safe boot, saves a lot of reaching in and pressing it yourself.
> 
> I have a potential fix, below:
> 
> USB Flashback using the 1203c (1203c will boot just fine with X3D but doesn't boost) bios, here: Asus C8E 0402 Download
> once back in bios shutdown machine, switch bios to 2nd slot, flash 0801 (0602, 0604, 0606, and 0801 all work as expected for X3D) in 2nd slot from here: C8E 0801 Beta Bios.
> 
> Mine came like, 0604 in bios A and 0402 in bios B, and I realized it was helpful because C8E has at least 4 difference POST failure recovery modes, swapping to 0402 basically did a more thorough bios reset than just "reset bios" button when "reset bios" button wasn't fixing POST challenges.
> 
> AMD failsafe Mode - When memory training fails after 5 attempts, resets a bunch of junk in bios like Global C-State Control.
> RAM Training Asus hard failure mode - When save bios and instantly get F9 > 00 > Memtest. If the timings/votlages/resistances are too far from functional it will get stuck here. BIOS reset usually fixes it, not always, sometimes requires swapping to 1203c bios then back to work again. Means something is corrupted.
> RAM Training Asus soft failure mode - You save changes and exit, system power fully off for cold boot > F9 > cold boots again into auto recovery with 1 sentence warning message on POST screen and f1 to enter bios.
> Safe Mode boot button - Often can recover from otherwise un-postable condition that doesn't auto recover like soft failure mode. When hard failure mode occurs but timings/voltages/resistances are very close to working, this can sometimes get you back into bios.
> 
> BIOS RESET - It doesn't do what it says it does... I know it's not a full reset because the unnamed tool manipulated options persist through a bios reset button push e.g. if I set -10 CO via the tool, shutdown, reset bios using button and boot I'll still have -10 CO assigned in BIOS.
> 
> For 1900/3800 initial post I would suggest instead of full auto reliance set to 1866/3733 then reboot and set 1900/3800 and the below, this seems to work most consistently for me on this board from a fresh BIOS flash:
> SOC 1.10v
> CLDO VDDP 1v
> ProcODT: 43.6
> RttNom: Disabled
> RttWr: RZQ/3
> RttPark: RZQ/1
> DrvStr: All can be auto
> Setups: All can be auto
> 
> I can't necessarily accurately explain WHY this works so consistently, but it always works for me *¯\(ツ)/¯ *


Thanks for the input.
Unfortunately I tried this cpu on a the Asus Crosshair 8 Extreme, Gigabyte Aorus Extreme and a MSI Prestige x570 Creation, all with the latest bios's. Every single board reported the same error.
I shipped it back to Newegg the morning of May 3rd. Asking for a replacement. Hopefully I won't have to wait to long. 
However I did order a 5900x to play with that should be here on May 5th. So, I'll have at least something to do while I wait.  And I'm waiting for the 6950xt gpu's as well before buying. As if they are priced to high the 6900xt's hopefully go below msrp.


----------



## tcclaviger

Unfortunate that the fault followed the CPU 


I got per core CO working on C8E btw, here is at boot:


----------



## IamVoo

Nothing super special about any of my settings, I can't seem to get any BCLK overclock going at all on my machine (asus x570 tuf gaming plus). Never really tried in the past. Only thing to really note atm with my minimal testing is i can do -30 curve in pbo tuner on this chip and havent run into any issues YET. I did extensive overclocking/undervolting on my previous 5800x so I have plenty of experience and am aware this could very well not be stable long term. That said I did run a number of stress tests including multiple OCCT small SSE/AVX/AVX2 with both full load and core cycling at -30 and never ran into any errors or wheas, also ran prime95 for a bit and was solid. I will comeback and edit if/when I run into any instability.

100.00 bclk for all these tests, most all core benches stick at 4.45 but in individual bench as well as stress testing it seems all the cores can boost over 4.45 a bit with the best cores getting near 4.55 and the rest inbetween.

Cooling: EK 360 AIO 
roomtemp has varied over the night but should be in low 70's









yes this is for the most part a copy/paste from dram calc. I've had the memory faster and tighter in the past while spending weeks manually tuning every bit but I lost the settings after multiple bios updates and honestly just dont have the drive to redo everything manually when these settings have been stable, hit right around 60-61ns and do a decent enough job at 1.46v. 2 pairs of 2x8gb team dark pro b-die kits 3200 cl14. Originally had them running a long while back on a 1600 at 3200 cl12 n tight at 1.5+ so I've had experience ocing them, had them at 3733 cl14 on my 3600, then when i moved to the 5800x i finally lost passion to tune and settled on this profile which seems to work just fine on the 5800x3D as well.








CPU profile in 3dmark best run i've gotten so far, -25 CO on PBO2 tuner, Actually had better results than at -30 multiple runs so I think the lack of voltage is killing boost








now CB23 and cpuz tests both bests are at -30 curve in pbo tuner. Results better here than at -25 curve


----------



## Zeryth

I think am done tuning my ram, all WHEA free and stable for long periods of time.(10hours+, image was taken after another test of 4hours.)
CO offset -20 on all cores C6H 1.2.0.6b 4x8GB SR RevE


----------



## Blameless

tcclaviger said:


> Have observed the same Blameless, I lose EDC/TDC/PPT with LCLK DPM disabled. Threw me at first, thought HWINFO was bugged or something.


On my ASRock board, I only lose PPT. TDC and EDC are still reported and limited.



IamVoo said:


> 100.00 bclk for all these tests, most all core benches stick at 4.45 but in individual bench as well as stress testing it seems all the cores can boost over 4.45 a bit with the best cores getting near 4.55 and the rest inbetween.


All of the cores on my sample will reach between 4.51 and 4.54GHz individually in OCCT, but almost anything that loads more than two cores seems to automatically kick all of them down to 4.45, which will hold until fairly extreme loads, even without the LCLK DPM bug at all-core -30 CO. Reducing the negative CO offset does not improve boosting on my sample.

Newest firmware for my ASRock board has AGESA 1.2.0.6b and this pattern hold regardless of microcode revision I use with it. TPU was getting 4.55GHz boost up to at least four cores loaded...wonder if that is due to AGESA 1.2.0.6c, or something else.



IamVoo said:


> CPU profile in 3dmark best run i've gotten so far, -25 CO on PBO2 tuner, Actually had better results than at -30 multiple runs so I think the lack of voltage is killing boost


That boost clock for the single thread test doesn't look right, but the score isn't far off what I see:


----------



## OCmember

Downloaded the latest OCCT v10.1.7. Can anyone give me some good testing configurations for best Error Detection rate? Just want to compare them to what I got to make sure I'm running this as best as possible for error detection.

My test is: AVX2, Large, Normal & Extreme, Variable

Also, what temp sensors should I be taking observations with? I'm checking CPU Die, L3 Cache, CPU IOD Hotspot, CPU IOD Average, X570 Chipset

Thanks

EDIT: Also just want to double check what other stress tests to use for WHEA error detection, and their configurations. Ty


----------



## Blameless

OCmember said:


> Downloaded the latest OCCT v10.1.7. Can anyone give me some good testing configurations for best Error Detection rate? Just want to compare them to what I got to make sure I'm running this as best as possible for error detection.
> 
> My test is: AVX2, Large, Normal & Extreme, Variable


Large, extreme, variable should be a fine baseline test for these parts. Though you may want to do a custom run that is set to rotate one or two cores at a time to get a max boost test...this is much less important on the 5800X3D, given how small the differential is between single and all core boost, but it's still relevant. CoreCycler generally does this better on other Vermeer parts, but since the 5800X3D can boost to 4.55GHz on one or two cores, even at fairly heavy loads, OCCT is probably faster at finding flaws here. More testing won't hurt, however.



OCmember said:


> Also, what temp sensors should I be taking observations with? I'm checking CPU Die, L3 Cache, CPU IOD Hotspot, CPU IOD Average, X570 Chipset


Mostly just the cores and peak CCD temp. The X570 only needs to be monitored if you've had temp issues before.

L3 cache and IOD are never going to get very hot, but the IOD temp is a good reference for TCASE, if you're curious about the core to lid temp differential (thermal density of the cores on these parts is extreme and the thermal resistance relatively high, due to that silicon spacer/shim that has to be placed between the lid and cores to account for the height differential between the cores and L3 stack). At full load with good air cooling, I see a ~40C gap between the IOD and core temps, which strongly suggests the top of the IHS/base of heatsink has more than a 40C delta to core temps. That's a good 10C hotter than the already hot non-X Vermeer, and why these parts are so hard to cool, despite not putting out much heat.



OCmember said:


> EDIT: Also just want to double check what other stress tests to use for WHEA error detection, and their configurations. Ty


y-cruncher HNT is very good at finding errors with FCLK and memory, and almost as good at finding issues with core stability.


----------



## lcapellaro

I'm getting 13.5 ~ 13.8ns latency in the L3 cache on AIDA64 using Windows 11. Did you guys who are getting 12.5 make any specific tweaks? What version of Windows are you using?
I'm using the 5800X3D on a Crosshair VI Hero, as well as @Zeryth.


----------



## Blameless

lcapellaro said:


> I'm getting 13.5 ~ 13.8ns latency in the L3 cache on AIDA64 using Windows 11. Did you guys who are getting 12.5 make any specific tweaks? What version of Windows are you using?
> I'm using the 5800X3D on a Crosshair VI Hero, as well as @Zeryth.


12.3ns with Windows 10. A lot of tweaking, but nothing specific to, or very different than stock for, L3 latency.


----------



## pfinch

lcapellaro said:


> I'm getting 13.5 ~ 13.8ns latency in the L3 cache on AIDA64 using Windows 11. Did you guys who are getting 12.5 make any specific tweaks? What version of Windows are you using?
> I'm using the 5800X3D on a Crosshair VI Hero, as well as @Zeryth.


same here. 13.1ns layer 3 on win11. didn't tried win10 so far


----------



## tcclaviger

On Win10:
L3 is highly sensitive to voltage on these chips. Can swing from 11.7 to 13 by changing only the voltages. Keeping SOC low helps, on Asus adding a +0.00625 may also help (does for me).

Win 11:
Who knows, it's Windows Alder Lake edition, could be anything.


----------



## tcclaviger

There definitely appears to be something odd going on with X3D for many people.

My and many others, 8 thread performance in 3dmark CPU test I'm seeing is far, far below where it should be.

For example sorted by max, 16, 4, 2, 1 I hold the top spot, but 8 thread is 62xx there. Very odd. Have reset most things to stock and still seeing the trend, 5965 8 core test with essentially fully stock config.

Looking at behavior during test I see it loading 4 cores > 8 cores > 4 cores, so it seems windows is throwing 8 threads across 4 cores at times instead of 1 each.

Can firmly eliminate GPU brand, Win 10 vs 11, ram speed, temperature, as causes, sotck/OC CPU and GPU.

*Confirmed fix: CPPC Enabled, CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled.*

Full stock just got 6502 on 8t test.

Evidence there's potential gaming performance improvement with CPPC Preferred disabled on X3D.

Games where windows decides to stack 2 threads on one core instead of spreading them will almost certainly see benefit from this, so games with 2t-14t potentially, and it goes a long way to me, of explaining and validating the anecdotal reports of less hitching during game play with CPPC Preferred disabled on 5600x, 5800x.

Same hardware settings below, 4t seems to get some benefit as well:
CPPC ON CPPC Preferred ON:







CPPC ON CPPC Preferred OFF:








Corrected, Valid score updated :I scored 0 in CPU Profile

The impact of the ******ed win scheduler is so pronounced, this was done with 30mhz less GPU on full daily with SMT off. tlMy previous best of 388average was done on sketchy stability high GPU, CPU, and RAM OC. 
Even with SMT off, windows not fighting to load the "critical" thread to the "appropriate" core makes a difference:


----------



## domdtxdissar

Veii said:


> Such empty sheet for X3D
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zen RAM OC Leaderboards
> 
> 
> Zen 4 Sheet is sorted and verified submissions LOCKED each Thursday. Please provide proof of stability via Y-Cruncher AND a memory stability test, otherwise your submission will be removed. Refer to the FAQ for more info. MEMORY,PROCESSOR Username,Memory Latency,L3 Latency,DIMMs,Die Type,Rank,Me...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docs.google.com


While both of us know aida64 numbers aint that important, ive added my 52ns 5800x3d results to that google doc









Now I will start upload my gamebench comparison between my 5800x3d, my maxed ~5.1ghz 5950x and Alder lake @ ~5.6ghz 7200MT/s


----------



## tcclaviger

Whew, 14 at 4200, smoking. Those Neos seem to actually be worth the small extra cost over the GVK/GVKA sku from what I'm finding with GVKAs. Also, GB, killing it on x570 with their RAM layout.


----------



## bmagnien

tcclaviger said:


> There definitely appears to be something odd going on with X3D for many people.
> 
> My and many others, 8 thread performance in 3dmark CPU test I'm seeing is far, far below where it should be.
> 
> For example sorted by max, 16, 4, 2, 1 I hold the top spot, but 8 thread is 62xx there. Very odd. Have reset most things to stock and still seeing the trend, 5965 8 core test with essentially fully stock config.
> 
> Looking at behavior during test I see it loading 4 cores > 8 cores > 4 cores, so it seems windows is throwing 8 threads across 4 cores at times instead of 1 each.
> 
> Can firmly eliminate GPU brand, Win 10 vs 11, ram speed, temperature, as causes, sotck/OC CPU and GPU.
> 
> *Confirmed fix: CPPC Enabled, CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled.*
> 
> Full stock just got 6502 on 8t test.
> 
> Evidence there's potential gaming performance improvement with CPPC Preferred disabled on X3D.
> 
> Games where windows decides to stack 2 threads on one core instead of spreading them will almost certainly see benefit from this, so games with 2t-14t potentially, and it goes a long way to me, of explaining and validating the anecdotal reports of less hitching during game play with CPPC Preferred disabled on 5600x, 5800x.
> 
> Same hardware settings below, 4t seems to get some benefit as well:
> CPPC ON CPPC Preferred ON:
> View attachment 2559429
> 
> CPPC ON CPPC Preferred OFF:
> View attachment 2559430
> 
> 
> Corrected, Valid score updated :I scored 0 in CPU Profile
> 
> The impact of the ******ed win scheduler is so pronounced, this was done with 30mhz less GPU on full daily with SMT off. tlMy previous best of 388average was done on sketchy stability high GPU, CPU, and RAM OC.
> Even with SMT off, windows not fighting to load the "critical" thread to the "appropriate" core makes a difference:
> View attachment 2559440


Thanks for doing the legwork on this. Have you found any noticeable impacts of the LCLK settings. Running all as Auto right now but seems like there’s some advantages for Pcie4 devices if lclk dpm enchanted pcie defection is enabled. But at the same time lclk dpm power management reads like disabling it for a fixed lclk would be better than the alternative (lowering lclk to save power). No idea though…


----------



## tcclaviger

I've found no benefit to messing with LCLK at this point. If there is a benefit, it has been too subtle to identify. I have not tested PCIE drive bandwidth at various LCLK settings though, or GPU PCIE throughput, there may be an improvement in those areas.


----------



## Veii

domdtxdissar said:


> While both of us know aida64 numbers aint that important, ive added my 52ns 5800x3d results to that google doc


We do, and Aida is even less important when it's bank to bank
But it does show interesting behavior on Write and cache 

At very least shows timings + stability test next to it & L3 orientation or voltage orientation part
It's very useful to tell people to go and find similar configs


----------



## domdtxdissar

Have finally completed my first game comparison between my maxed 5950x, my 5800x3d and golden samples Alderlake cpus @ ~5.6/5.7ghz 7200MT/s



http://imgur.com/a/TZdNAzm

 vs


http://imgur.com/a/ahnY3nl


*Shadow of the Tomb Raider: 1080p lowest:*

5950x @ ~5100/5000mhz = 353fps average cpu game
12900k @ 5750mhz 7000MT/s = 375fps average cpu game
5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 402fps average cpu game

*Horizon Zero Dawn: 1080p performance preset, lowest res scale:*

5950x @ ~5100mhz = 301fps average cpu game
12900k @ 5700mhz 7200MT/s = 321fps average cpu game
5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 313fps average cpu game

*F1 2020 1080p low dx11: Australia benchmark location and dry weather:*

5950x @ ~5100mhz = 490 average fps
5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 555 average fps

*Farcry6 1080p ultra, HD-texture enabled, FSR QTY:*

5950x @ ~5100mhz = 163 average fps
12900k @ 5700mhz 7200MT/s (?)= 203 average fps
5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 176 average fps

*Cyberpunk 2077: 1080p low *

5950x @ ~5100mhz = 252 average fps
12900k @ 5700mhz 7200MT/s = 304 average fps
5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 268 average fps

Final Fantasy XV 1080p low: (game engine limited, results with grain of salt)

5950x @ ~5100mhz = 23426 score
12900k @ 5700mhz = 23585 score
5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 23489 score

Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker 1440p maximum: (game engine limited, results with grain of salt)

5950x @ ~5100mhz = 30553 score
12900k @ 5700mhz = 33891 score
5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 33764 score

HardwareLux Counter-Strike: Global Offensive benchmark settings: (only scale with clockspeed it seems)

12900k @ 5500mhz 4133MT/s CL16 = 954 fps
5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 716 fps
Max tuned Alderlake beats out Zen3 in games, but i have to say i'm pretty impressed by the5800x3 
...Considering zero binning/golden samples are required for 5800x3d and they dont scale with memory you, so you can use a cheapo x470 together with 3200/3600MT/s memory for nice "low-end gaming machine".


----------



## AXi0M

Welp, I give up on life lol After spending 3 days trying to get my FCLK stable beyond 1900Mhz (daily stable, not benchmark stable) Trying endless combinations of voltages, I set all to auto in bios and now haven't had a WHEA error after hours of OCCT @1933Mhz with lower voltages and higher stability. I know it sounds like Blasphemy saying this on an overclocking forum but i feel so dumb for all the time i've waisted when i could've just put everything on auto and set FCLK to 1933Mhz lol.


----------



## tcclaviger

domdtxdissar said:


> Have finally completed my first game comparison between my maxed 5950x, my 5800x3d and golden samples Alderlake cpus @ ~5.6/5.7ghz 7200MT/s
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/TZdNAzm
> 
> vs
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/ahnY3nl
> 
> 
> *Shadow of the Tomb Raider: 1080p lowest:*
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100/5000mhz = 353fps average cpu game
> 12900k @ 5750mhz 7000MT/s = 375fps average cpu game
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 402fps average cpu game
> 
> *Horizon Zero Dawn: 1080p performance preset, lowest res scale:*
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 301fps average cpu game
> 12900k @ 5700mhz 7200MT/s = 321fps average cpu game
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 313fps average cpu game
> 
> *F1 2020 1080p low dx11: Australia benchmark location and dry weather:*
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 490 average fps
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 555 average fps
> 
> *Farcry6 1080p ultra, HD-texture enabled, FSR QTY:*
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 163 average fps
> 12900k @ 5700mhz 7200MT/s (?)= 203 average fps
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 176 average fps
> 
> *Cyberpunk 2077: 1080p low *
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 252 average fps
> 12900k @ 5700mhz 7200MT/s = 304 average fps
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 268 average fps
> 
> Final Fantasy XV 1080p low: (game engine limited, results with grain of salt)
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 23426 score
> 12900k @ 5700mhz = 23585 score
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 23489 score
> 
> Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker 1440p maximum: (game engine limited, results with grain of salt)
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 30553 score
> 12900k @ 5700mhz = 33891 score
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 33764 score
> 
> HardwareLux Counter-Strike: Global Offensive benchmark settings: (only scale with clockspeed it seems)
> 
> 12900k @ 5500mhz 4133MT/s CL16 = 954 fps
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 716 fps
> Max tuned Alderlake beats out Zen3 in games, but i have to say i'm pretty impressed by the5800x3
> ...Considering zero binning/golden samples are required for 5800x3d and they dont scale with memory you, so you can use a cheapo x470 together with 3200/3600MT/s memory for nice "low-end gaming machine".


Nice work. Seems pretty consistent with KS vs X3D results, ultimately I think it's essentially a wash being so game dependant. Nod obviously to AL for overall performance. Quite impressive considering a 1ghz+ defecit, very much looking forward to the next 3 or 4 years as Intel learns to tame the power beast that is AL and AMD learns to extract more IPC.

It's very unfortunate the games which seem to benefit the most, are the hardest to get good apples to apples numbers for. Games like Star Citizen, Warzone, Tarakov, etc have all had huge gains but it's very time consuming to do benchmarks for them and eliminate server/connection as variable.


----------



## IamVoo

tcclaviger said:


> There definitely appears to be something odd going on with X3D for many people.
> 
> My and many others, 8 thread performance in 3dmark CPU test I'm seeing is far, far below where it should be.
> 
> For example sorted by max, 16, 4, 2, 1 I hold the top spot, but 8 thread is 62xx there. Very odd. Have reset most things to stock and still seeing the trend, 5965 8 core test with essentially fully stock config.
> 
> Looking at behavior during test I see it loading 4 cores > 8 cores > 4 cores, so it seems windows is throwing 8 threads across 4 cores at times instead of 1 each.
> 
> Can firmly eliminate GPU brand, Win 10 vs 11, ram speed, temperature, as causes, sotck/OC CPU and GPU.
> 
> *Confirmed fix: CPPC Enabled, CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled.*
> 
> Full stock just got 6502 on 8t test.
> 
> Evidence there's potential gaming performance improvement with CPPC Preferred disabled on X3D.
> 
> Games where windows decides to stack 2 threads on one core instead of spreading them will almost certainly see benefit from this, so games with 2t-14t potentially, and it goes a long way to me, of explaining and validating the anecdotal reports of less hitching during game play with CPPC Preferred disabled on 5600x, 5800x.
> 
> Same hardware settings below, 4t seems to get some benefit as well:
> CPPC ON CPPC Preferred ON:
> View attachment 2559429
> 
> CPPC ON CPPC Preferred OFF:
> View attachment 2559430
> 
> 
> Corrected, Valid score updated :I scored 0 in CPU Profile
> 
> The impact of the ******ed win scheduler is so pronounced, this was done with 30mhz less GPU on full daily with SMT off. tlMy previous best of 388average was done on sketchy stability high GPU, CPU, and RAM OC.
> Even with SMT off, windows not fighting to load the "critical" thread to the "appropriate" core makes a difference:
> View attachment 2559440


Looks like I can replicate it, just did a quick test after turning preferred off: 8 threads score was 5858 with preferred on








8 thread seemed to jump about 500ish points from it being set to auto which i assume is on in my bios.
Dont pay attention to little bit of loss from 16 thread, wasn't a best benchmark run just a variation, had other stuff running and it's currently warm in the room. Might have also changed my LLC one level before but can confirm that none of that makes a difference on the 8 thread.

Had previously noticed my 8 thread scores looking weak compared to other scores on 3dmark, wonder if this pays dividends in actual usage.


----------



## tcclaviger

From all anecdotal reports of 1CCD Zen3 behavior it should manifest as increased frame to frame consistency and reduced 0.01% low spikes with little to no change in peak and average frame rates. Not sexy metrics, but definitely an improved gaming experience.

In my own recent quick checks, I've observed zero negative impact from disabling preferred Cores.


----------



## Blameless

tcclaviger said:


> *Confirmed fix: CPPC Enabled, CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled.*


This was the case on my 5800Xes as well.

In my experience, the only CPUs where leaving preferred cores enabled makes sense are multiple CCX ones where the non-preferred order sends threads across CCXes too frequently. In these cases, clustering threads into one CCX first is usually best for apps/games with a lot of inter-thread dependencies because the latency penalty for hitting another CCX is so extreme. With only once CCX, this advantage evaporates and thread contention problems dominate.

I leave CPPC itself enabled because the default flat ordering is usually not problematic (definitely not for the 5800X3D) and CPPC itself is supposed to be able to respond faster than legacy performance and power control methods.



bmagnien said:


> Thanks for doing the legwork on this. Have you found any noticeable impacts of the LCLK settings. Running all as Auto right now but seems like there’s some advantages for Pcie4 devices if lclk dpm enchanted pcie defection is enabled. But at the same time lclk dpm power management reads like disabling it for a fixed lclk would be better than the alternative (lowering lclk to save power). No idea though…


Disabling LCLK DPM causes some bugs on many 5800X3D setups. For example, on my ASRock board it knocks out temp throttling entirely and removes reporting (and possibly limiting) of PPT.

Manual LCLK DPM settings of less than straight 2s doesn't seem to have any benefits on my 5800X3D (it doesn't make it easier to stabilize high FCLK for me), but it might for others. The defaults with PCIe 4.0 detection enabled appear to be 2-1-1-2 and anything less than this will start to harm PCI-E bandwidth with 4.0 16x cards.


----------



## blu3dragon

tcclaviger said:


> There definitely appears to be something odd going on with X3D for many people.
> 
> My and many others, 8 thread performance in 3dmark CPU test I'm seeing is far, far below where it should be.
> 
> For example sorted by max, 16, 4, 2, 1 I hold the top spot, but 8 thread is 62xx there. Very odd. Have reset most things to stock and still seeing the trend, 5965 8 core test with essentially fully stock config.
> 
> Looking at behavior during test I see it loading 4 cores > 8 cores > 4 cores, so it seems windows is throwing 8 threads across 4 cores at times instead of 1 each.
> 
> Can firmly eliminate GPU brand, Win 10 vs 11, ram speed, temperature, as causes, sotck/OC CPU and GPU.
> 
> *Confirmed fix: CPPC Enabled, CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled.*
> 
> Full stock just got 6502 on 8t test.
> 
> Evidence there's potential gaming performance improvement with CPPC Preferred disabled on X3D.
> 
> Games where windows decides to stack 2 threads on one core instead of spreading them will almost certainly see benefit from this, so games with 2t-14t potentially, and it goes a long way to me, of explaining and validating the anecdotal reports of less hitching during game play with CPPC Preferred disabled on 5600x, 5800x.
> 
> Same hardware settings below, 4t seems to get some benefit as well:
> CPPC ON CPPC Preferred ON:
> View attachment 2559429
> 
> CPPC ON CPPC Preferred OFF:
> View attachment 2559430
> 
> 
> Corrected, Valid score updated :I scored 0 in CPU Profile
> 
> The impact of the ******ed win scheduler is so pronounced, this was done with 30mhz less GPU on full daily with SMT off. tlMy previous best of 388average was done on sketchy stability high GPU, CPU, and RAM OC.
> Even with SMT off, windows not fighting to load the "critical" thread to the "appropriate" core makes a difference:
> View attachment 2559440


Nice find. I get similar results as well. 7-9% better scores with CPPC Preferred OFF (on the right). ON is the left.
The 1% or less gain for the 16 thread and 1 thread results with it ON may be due to temperature differences between these two runs or just run-to-run inconsistency.











Did one game benchmark and it didn't show any difference, but it's possible I just got lucky on that run. iRacing which only uses 1 core heavily and maybe 4 cores in total.


----------



## Blameless

blu3dragon said:


> iRacing which only uses 1 core heavily and maybe 4 cores in total.


Probably never going to show a meaningful difference here. Preferred cores may even help slightly.


----------



## Andy112

Hi guys any suggestions on how I can be WHEA error free at 1900 FCLK? I'm not really too fussed on pushing >1900 FCLK but for interests sake I tried bumping up to the next clock speed preset and still get WHEA errors. Best compromise I can get is 1867 FCLK (WHEA error free) as seen in my ZenTimings sceenshot. FYI still running AGESA 1.2.0.6b.

Mem OC is stable as per multiple anta777 absolut runs, but OCCT reports WHEA errors within 5 mins.

Cheers.


----------



## OCmember

Is running APBDIS @ 1, SOC - P-State P0, DF-States - Disabled, going to hurt performance or is this good tuning for low latency performance?


----------



## Sparrow1408

Andy112 said:


> Hi guys any suggestions on how I can be WHEA error free at 1900 FCLK? I'm not really too fussed on pushing >1900 FCLK but for interests sake I tried bumping up to the next clock speed preset and still get WHEA errors. Best compromise I can get is 1867 FCLK (WHEA error free) as seen in my ZenTimings sceenshot. FYI still running AGESA 1.2.0.6b.
> 
> Mem OC is stable as per multiple anta777 absolut runs, but OCCT reports WHEA errors within 5 mins.
> 
> Cheers.


Reset your BIOS

Set everything 1:1:1 at 1900, set your ram voltage, and let the board auto set other values.

Check for stability. If stable Tighten timings. If not stable try 1100mv SOC, 950mv VDDP, 950mv-1050mv VDDG CCD, 1000mv-1050mv VDDG IOD.

Check for stability. If stable tighten timings. If not stable increase SOC 1150 ...

That said, I can get 1933 & 1967 1:1:1 Ram stable but not Prime95 WHEA free. Hopefully AGESA 1.2.0.7 increases stability at higher FLCK.


----------



## blu3dragon

Andy112 said:


> Hi guys any suggestions on how I can be WHEA error free at 1900 FCLK? I'm not really too fussed on pushing >1900 FCLK but for interests sake I tried bumping up to the next clock speed preset and still get WHEA errors. Best compromise I can get is 1867 FCLK (WHEA error free) as seen in my ZenTimings sceenshot. FYI still running AGESA 1.2.0.6b.
> 
> Mem OC is stable as per multiple anta777 absolut runs, but OCCT reports WHEA errors within 5 mins.
> 
> Cheers.


I can't really talk since mine is not WHEA free at 1900 FCLK either, but your VDDG SOC looks high, while VSOC could be raised a little.

From your current settings, I'd raise VSOC to 1.1, and drop VDDG SOC to 1.0.
If that fails, increasing PLL (CPU 1.8v) to 1.825 or 1.85 might help.


----------



## Andy112

blu3dragon said:


> From your current settings, I'd raise VSOC to 1.1, and drop VDDG SOC to 1.0.


Thank you will give it a try although I can't find anything in my ASUS BIOS with them exact names, any idea what the ASUS equivalent is?


----------



## Veii

OCmember said:


> Is running APBDIS @ 1, SOC - P-State P0, DF-States - Disabled, going to hurt performance or is this good tuning for low latency performance?


Try working with APBDIS 0 & cTDP + Package Power throttle & performance bias to "power" instead of "perf"
else just P-State 1


----------



## TimeDrapery

OCmember said:


> Is running APBDIS @ 1, SOC - P-State P0, DF-States - Disabled, going to hurt performance or is this good tuning for low latency performance?


This configuration's recommended by AMD for their Epyc CPUs for low latency / high performance

The config @Veii recommend is not... Why do you recommend what you did, @Veii ?


----------



## Blameless

OCmember said:


> Is running APBDIS @ 1, SOC - P-State P0, DF-States - Disabled, going to hurt performance or is this good tuning for low latency performance?


As long as global C states are enabled, disabling all the SoC and fabric power management isn't likely to hurt anything. Unless you are raising BCLK you aren't likely to be power limited anywhere with these parts and the tiny bit saved outside the actual cores won't matter.

You could always try it both ways though...I doubt it will be a noticeable difference either way. Personally, I leave them set the way you have them described here.



Andy112 said:


> Thank you will give it a try although I can't find anything in my ASUS BIOS with them exact names, any idea what the ASUS equivalent is?


The names are almost exactly the same...

Anyway, your VDDG CCD voltage is set way too high. These are controlled by LDOs derived from SoC voltage and can't actually be set higher than ~50mV below SoC voltage. Additionally, CCD is almost always best set lower than IOD.

With a 1.1v SOC voltage, try 1.0v VDDG CCD and 0.95v VDDG IOD. if you get any WHEA errors see what bumping them all 50mV does.


----------



## Veii

TimeDrapery said:


> The config @Veii recommend is not... Why do you recommend what you did, @Veii ?


P-States are for EPYC, not only but also
cTDP and Package power limits are used and oriented on

But cTDP is ignored and TDP is focused if ABPDIS is not 0
ABDIS 0 as for variable MCLK and FCLK is not active, but half half is

in order to shift focus to hold cTDP targets instead of TDP targets , you need to change Determinism Slider (not perf bias) to Power instead of Performance
But for that to work , you need APBDIS to 0
For the remain functionality of it , to function. Even when over half of associated functionality is disabled now


----------



## Blameless

Veii said:


> P-States are for EPYC, not only but also
> cTDP and Package power limits are used and oriented on
> 
> But cTDP is ignored and TDP is focused if ABPDIS is not 0
> ABDIS 0 as for variable MCLK and FCLK is not active, but half half is
> 
> in order to shift focus to hold cTDP targets instead of TDP targets , you need to change Determinism Slider (not perf bias) to Power instead of Performance
> But for that to work , you need APBDIS to 0
> For the remain functionality of it , to function. Even when over half of associated functionality is disabled now


Are cTDP and TDP different by default?


----------



## TimeDrapery

Veii said:


> P-States are for EPYC, not only but also
> cTDP and Package power limits are used and oriented on
> 
> But cTDP is ignored and TDP is focused if ABPDIS is not 0
> ABDIS 0 as for variable MCLK and FCLK is not active, but half half is
> 
> in order to shift focus to hold cTDP targets instead of TDP targets , you need to change Determinism Slider (not perf bias) to Power instead of Performance
> But for that to work , you need APBDIS to 0
> For the remain functionality of it , to function. Even when over half of associated functionality is disabled now


You're the boss, I figured it would be something like this and I immensely appreciate you explaining your thinking


----------



## TimeDrapery

Blameless said:


> Are cTDP and TDP different by default?


No, on Auto (as well as on Ryzen CPUs but only because there's no configurable TDP [cTDP] for Ryzen), the cTDP and the TDP are the same

On Epyc CPUs there are some where you are allowed to configure TDP within an allowed range (I say "allowed" because I'm sure there are systems out there where the options to do so has been hidden)

As far as I've been able to determine, cTDP and PPL (when configured in BIOS) have no impact on power limits with my 5800X regardless of APBDIS' configuration... Also, Gigabyte hides determinism settings 😂😂😂😂😂

I do not believe Ryzen CPUs allow us to muck with this path much, if at all, and I've yet to see evidence otherwise


----------



## Blameless

TimeDrapery said:


> No, on Auto (as well as on Ryzen CPUs but only because there's no configurable TDP [cTDP] for Ryzen), the cTDP and the TDP are the same
> 
> On Epyc CPUs there are some where you are allowed to configure TDP within an allowed range (I say "allowed" because I'm sure there are systems out there where the options to do so has been hidden)
> 
> As far as I've been able to determine, cTDP and PPL (when configured in BIOS) have no impact on power limits with my 5800X regardless of APBDIS' configuration... Also, Gigabyte hides determinism settings 😂😂😂😂😂
> 
> I do not believe Ryzen CPUs allow us to muck with this path much, if at all, and I've yet to see evidence otherwise


I tried changing the cTDP limit earlier and it didn't seem to do anything, but Veii seems to be saying it's honored if ABPDIS is 0?

The determinism options should be in the AGESA NVRAM dumps of almost every board. I think the default is already supposed to be power, however.


----------



## TimeDrapery

Blameless said:


> I tried changing the cTDP limit earlier and it didn't seem to do anything, but Veii seems to be saying it's honored if ABPDIS is 0?
> 
> The determinism options should be in the AGESA NVRAM dumps of almost every board. I think the default is already supposed to be power, however.


Yes, that's what @Veii is saying, to the best of my understanding

I've tried it both ways and seen no impact with desktop Ryzen

Yes, determinism is "there" (hence "hidden" by Gigabyte) and, insofar as I'm aware, it defaults to "Power" so there shouldn't be any need for me to modify that in order to see a result if one should present itself


----------



## domdtxdissar

domdtxdissar said:


> Have finally completed my first game comparison between my maxed 5950x, my 5800x3d and golden samples Alderlake cpus @ ~5.6/5.7ghz 7200MT/s
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/TZdNAzm
> 
> vs
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/ahnY3nl
> 
> 
> *Shadow of the Tomb Raider: 1080p lowest:*
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100/5000mhz = 353fps average cpu game
> 12900k @ 5750mhz 4300MT/s CL14 = 373fps average cpu game
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 402fps average cpu game
> 
> *Horizon Zero Dawn: 1080p performance preset, lowest res scale:*
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 301fps average cpu game
> 12900k @ 5580mhz 7160MT/s CL30 = 321fps average cpu game
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 313fps average cpu game
> 
> *F1 2020 1080p low dx11: Australia benchmark location and dry weather:*
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 490 average fps
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 555 average fps
> 
> *Farcry6 1080p ultra, HD-texture enabled, FSR QTY:*
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 163 average fps
> 12900k @ 5580mhz 7160MT/s CL30 = 203 average fps
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 176 average fps
> 
> *Cyberpunk 2077: 1080p low *
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 252 average fps
> 12900k @ 5580mhz 7160MT/s CL30 = 304 average fps
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 268 average fps
> 
> Final Fantasy XV 1080p low: (game engine limited, results with grain of salt)
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 23426 score
> 12900k @ ~5700mhz(?) = 23585 score
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 23489 score
> 
> Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker 1440p maximum: (game engine limited, results with grain of salt)
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 30553 score
> 12900k @ ~5700mhz(?) = 33891 score
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 33764 score
> 
> HardwareLux Counter-Strike: Global Offensive benchmark settings: (only scale with clockspeed it seems)
> 
> 12900k @ 5500mhz 4133MT/s CL16 = 954 fps
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 716 fps
> Max tuned Alderlake beats out Zen3 in games, but i have to say i'm pretty impressed by the5800x3
> ...Considering zero binning/golden samples are required for 5800x3d and they dont scale with memory, so you can use a cheapo x470 together with 3200/3600MT/s memory for nice "low-end gaming machine".
> 
> Would also be very nice if someone could add results for 12600k etc
> 
> _edit_
> Added some of the Alder lake screens:
> View attachment 2559455
> View attachment 2559461
> 
> View attachment 2559457
> View attachment 2559458


Small update with 1 more benchmark 

Metro Exodus Benchmark: 1080p low:

5950x @ ~5100mhz = 322 average fps
12900k @ 5580mhz 7160MT/s CL30 = 408 average fps
5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 338 average fps
5800x3d @ 4450mhz, dx11 = 524 average fps



























Metro Exodus Enhanced Benchmark: 1080p low:

12900k @ 5580mhz 7160MT/s CL30 = 250 average fps
5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 237 average fps















*Noteworthy observation:* *The frametimes for the 5800x3d look much better, no ?







*


----------



## Blameless

TimeDrapery said:


> Yes, that's what @Veii is saying, to the best of my understanding
> 
> I've tried it both ways and seen no impact with desktop Ryzen
> 
> Yes, determinism is "there" (hence "hidden" by Gigabyte) and, insofar as I'm aware, it defaults to "Power" so there shouldn't be any need for me to modify that in order to see a result if one should present itself


Well, I'll give it another shot to see if I notice any difference in performance or power consumption.


----------



## Blameless

Did a couple of quick tests and having APBDIS = 0 along with an increased cTDP seemed to result in slightly elevated power consumption (including two watts higher peak SoC power, interestingly enough). However, there was a very minor, but consistent reduction in performance in both XMrig and 3DMark's CPU profiler.

Seems to be doing something at least, and may be better for those less thermally limited.


----------



## TimeDrapery

Blameless said:


> Did a couple of quick tests and having APBDIS = 0 along with an increased cTDP seemed to result in slightly elevated power consumption (including two watts higher peak SoC power, interestingly enough). However, there was a very minor, but consistent reduction in performance in both XMrig and 3DMark's CPU profiler.
> 
> Seems to be doing something at least, and may be better for those less thermally limited.


While I understand it may seem to be doing something for you we are lucky as we don't have to rely on your perception in order to determine impacts of configured settings...

TDP is displayed throughout many monitoring software... Configure cTDP to something other than fused TDP for your CPU (lower and higher as I'll bet you may see a change when configuring it to something lower than fused cTDP for your CPU) and see what these software display...


----------



## Blameless

TimeDrapery said:


> While I understand it may seem to be doing something for you we are lucky as we don't have to rely on your perception in order to determine impacts of configured settings...
> 
> TDP is displayed throughout many monitoring software... Configure cTDP to something other than fused TDP for your CPU (lower and higher as I'll bet you may see a change when configuring it to something lower than fused cTDP for your CPU) and see what these software display...


If I saw TDP increase from the 105w fused limit to the 142w I set, then saw no increase in power or temperatures at high loads, that change would have been an illusion. I did see an increase (~2C hotter, ~3-4w more), but I had to test for it, rather than just looking at whatever some register corresponding to TDP was telling me.


----------



## TimeDrapery

Blameless said:


> If I saw TDP increase from the 105w fused limit to the 142w I set, then saw no increase in power or temperatures at high loads, that change would have been an illusion. I did see an increase (~2C hotter, ~3-4w more), but I had to test for it, rather than just looking at whatever some register corresponding to TDP was telling me.


Whatever register that corresponds to TDP is influenced by whatever register you're supposed to be editing when you're inputting values... it changes the value read at whatever register corresponds to TDP on Epyc CPUs

There's no "secret secret make it work but don't show anybody it is working" option, the feature isn't enabled on Ryzen CPUs... Excuse me, allow me to check myself... You can configure a lower cTDP and this should have an impact

If you're having trouble believing this then use a power table monitoring utility rather than whatever mainstream monitoring utility and check what it's outputting

Within the usual parameters (a _lot_) that the CPU plays at, your results (without an accompanying indication of TDP changing via a real-time readout) should basically indicate to you that your margin within which your results vary run-to-run (and especially boot calibration to boot calibration) is larger than you'd initially thought

Or you're correct and AMD went out of their way to only "fake" disable the feature... Occam's sharp thing


----------



## IloveShoes

Have anyone else noticed odd reporting behavior from hwinfo when doing bclk oc. At first i thought my core0 was just really bad, but didnt add up to the increases in benchmark scores. Then i noticed that the core0 speed and the L3 cache speed matched up in hwinfo.


----------



## Blameless

TimeDrapery said:


> Within the usual parameters (a _lot_) that the CPU plays at, your results (without an accompanying indication of TDP changing via a real-time readout) should basically indicate to you that your margin within which your results vary run-to-run (and especially boot calibration to boot calibration) is larger than you'd initially thought


This had occurred to me, which is why I ran the tests several times, rebooting between each to retrain. It could be a margin of error thing, but that would be quite a coincidence, given the number of samples I have.

If the cTDP alteration isn't working, which is quite possible, then it's most likely that ABPDIS = 0 vs. 1 (and the related P-states) is responsible for all the differences I'm seeing. I figured this would be strange as SoC power consumption went up, but thinking about it further, transients from non-static P-states could be responsible for that. So, I'm testing this now.



TimeDrapery said:


> Or you're correct and AMD went out of their way to only "fake" disable the feature... Occam's sharp thing


I'm a believer in the existence of bugs. I don't think AMD would go out of their way to fake disable a feature, but I do think it quite possible that they screwed something up. Wouldn't be the first time.


----------



## Blameless

I tried reducing cTDP, then cTDP and PPT limit, with no effect, either reported or observed. So, it's almost certain that cTDP is still being ignored when increased.

Edit: Power vs. Performance determinism doesn't seem to be working either.

As far as phenomena I observed with regard to performance, and quite probably power, that was all likely down to the P-states that ABPDIS = 0 was allowing. After many more reboots and tests, I'm convinced that ABPDIS = 0 _is_ reducing performance more than margin of error. It's not a lot, but the best of ten trainings with "0" only beat the single worst of ten trainings with it set to "1" in XMrig. Overall, it's about half a percent slower here, with a good degree of confidence.

Out of curiosity, I also tested the LCLK disabled bug again. This is reliably knocking out temp limits, but not PPT or any other limits, even though it hides reporting of PPT (at least in Windows, haven't checked with ryzen_monitor or anything yet). Interestingly, the behavior here looks a lot what cTDP increases look like on parts that support it.


----------



## Rexbag

AXi0M said:


> Welp, I give up on life lol After spending 3 days trying to get my FCLK stable beyond 1900Mhz (daily stable, not benchmark stable) Trying endless combinations of voltages, I set all to auto in bios and now haven't had a WHEA error after hours of OCCT @1933Mhz with lower voltages and higher stability. I know it sounds like Blasphemy saying this on an overclocking forum but i feel so dumb for all the time i've waisted when i could've just put everything on auto and set FCLK to 1933Mhz lol.


All I can say is I'm jealous that you can even run 1933MHz without errors - my 5900x won't budge past 1900. It'll boot and run things above that just fine, but not without the inevitable WHEA errors.


----------



## Veii

Blameless said:


> I'm a believer in the existence of bugs. I don't think AMD would go out of their way to fake disable a feature, but I do think it quite possible that they screwed something up. Wouldn't be the first time.


APBDIS by itself is "screwed disabled"
Its bugged

Variable MCLK, FCLK, SOC and uncore (Uncore runs on 5600X at 6200MHz ?!? and on 5800X3D at 4000MHz)
Are half half bugged
Half is functional, half is disabled and yet things still dynamically overboost
I'm not 100% sure on p-states behavior
Because they also work and don't work at the same time
Likely needs more close inspection
SOC P-States together with uncore Oc function, but only uncoreOC controls SOC
3 soc and fclk p-states are generated before, and p-state 1 exists on X3D
(Name isnt thaat bad tbh)
But not always. Since 1180 its stopped on consumer vermeer and got wiped ~ yet did nothing to their overboost issue internally
(trying to go around the issue, yet still failing ~ "can't dynamically boost, can't overboost" ~ yet still does overboost as GMI links are dynamic) 

cTDP (average) and Package power limit (peak)
Are overriding the sample's TDP (105W)
It accepts values up to 270W ~ have to find the specs
Usually determinism slider changes how TDP target of sample, is factored in

Also "usually" PBO limit, PPT should override TDP limit
But this is up to determ slider setting
Performance on it, does the opposite and focuses on throttling yet getting most perf out (respects Fused TDP)
Power then checks cTDP targets and package power limits (skips fused TDP)
That way decides how fast throttling has to be and c-state "suspension" priority is handled

Usually perf should result in faster boosting and less idling but hold to TDP limit
Power "should" bypass TDP limit and focus on cTDP and package TDP

APBDIS is a different topic, but on mission mode it has to allow dynamic suspension technology of whatever is left enabled
I see SOC is pushed but is dynamically asserted. Rather dynamically requested.
It would not wonder me if "even if it's not used" it still is a factor how and when package throttle happens (on high FCLK)
Same as FIT does check VDD18/VTT power state before deciding if it should throttle or not
==========================================
Will check documents and give a correct description on Determinism Slider operation
Don't remember it fully, but as of request ~ i run APBDIS at mission mode (0)
Soo in case anything on new agesa changes or by chipset driver, or psp-fw ~ i'll notice a dynamic behavior change instantly

If it's "better" , i don't know
Likely could result in a loss of 0.1ns on memory perf maybe 0.2ns even
But L3 looks about how it is - and knowing energy efficient power plans boost cache bandwidth
(internal peak boost numbers measured, depend on how fast/slow internally lanes are sped up ~ same for navi & same early with powerplans, that broke thanks to dLDO)
Soo in all cases, the more powermanagement, the more performance ~ till it's unstable
Whatever can work for lowering strain , i try to use ~ even if not fully understanding the connection and "allowed functionality" changes (AMD give us dynamic FCLK back...)
==========================================
Somebody should try to test with SiSandra, Geekbench, Aida64 & y-cruncher benchmate benchmark
If internal powermanagement changes & sheduling changes, do anything positive
Powerplan balanced with energy efficient mode, or on Win10 fully energy efficient operation with global c-states enabled (no DF, PSU on typical current)

Same as energy efficient DPM "mode" does function
Power oriented focus has to function too
But APBDIS on 0 either does utilize whatever is left, or does nothing. Still is a requirement for remain balance algorithms to function


----------



## Veii

Blameless said:


> Out of curiosity, I also tested the LCLK disabled bug again. This is reliably knocking out temp limits, but not PPT or any other limits, even though it hides reporting of PPT (at least in Windows, haven't checked with ryzen_monitor or anything yet). Interestingly, the behavior here looks a lot what cTDP increases look like on parts that support it.


For me it kills THM targets and EDC limits
But still enforces PPT limits and enforces ProcHot throttle

can't bypass 65° forced throttle on 5600X with it
I only disable PCIe 4.0 mode - close to always once i see DPM LCLK is overshooting (else don't touch it, and does nothing "bad" on FCLK functional samples ~ with PCIe 4.0 X16 gpu)
PCIe 4.0 detection mode and manual SMU LCLK change by Veii ~ are two different things, although appear identical
SMU DPM LCLK change is loaded independent of AMD OC DPM toggle - and is loaded independent of AMD OC DPM "functionality"

It maybe is useful , and i saw it useful to prevent "insane overboost" on bugged samples who push LCLK and FCLK_EFF way to high
* as a resolve measure
But haven't seen anything positive out of it working or not working. Only "sensor read" is disabled. Yet FIT still holds to the limits somewhy


----------



## Blameless

Veii said:


> Soo in all cases, the more powermanagement, the more performance ~ till it's unstable


I'm not sure this applies as broadly to the 5800X3D as the default power limits are pretty generous for the clock ranges allowed, especially at large negative CO values when one isn't BCLK OCing.

Even my other chips never really seemed to benefit much from anything IOD related, other than just keeping peak power in check with reduced SoC, DDP, and DDG voltages.



Veii said:


> For me it kills THM targets and EDC limits
> But still enforces PPT limits and enforces ProcHot throttle
> 
> can't bypass 65° forced throttle on 5600X with it
> I only disable PCIe 4.0 mode - close to always once i see DPM LCLK is overshooting (else don't touch it, and does nothing "bad" on FCLK functional samples ~ with PCIe 4.0 X16 gpu)
> PCIe 4.0 detection mode and manual SMU LCLK change by Veii ~ are two different things, although appear identical
> SMU DPM LCLK change is loaded independent of AMD OC DPM toggle - and is loaded independent of AMD OC DPM "functionality"
> 
> It maybe is useful , and i saw it useful to prevent "insane overboost" on bugged samples who push LCLK and FCLK_EFF way to high
> * as a resolve measure
> But haven't seen anything positive out of it working or not working. Only "sensor read" is disabled. Yet FIT still holds to the limits somewhy


The lack of THM targets are probably what I'm observing.

I've only tested it on my 5800X3D. I've seen as high as 106C on the CCD using it and sustained core well in excess of the 90C junction limit, but haven't reached the listed thermtrip or HTC limits which HWiNFO says are both 115C (though it implies the HTC limit should be 85C elsewhere). Will have to check EDC again.

It does seems to help performance in XMrig slightly as it holds a higher boost clock here. At -30 CO XMRig normally levels off around 4.375-4.425GHz boost with my cooling, but holds a rock solid 4.45GHz even at -25 CO using the LCLK DPM bug...and performance is reflected in the clocks.

Having difficulty finding other tests that benefit because they either weren't temp limited at 4.45GHz, or were hitting PPT or TDC limits. I'll probably need to play with COs more to dial in various apps at that are on the verge of hitting limits to notice a difference.


----------



## Veii

Blameless said:


> Having difficulty finding other tests


I think we can/should go back to SiSoftware Sandra intercore latency test (inter-thread, idk they renamed it)
To observe stacked cache behavior and how/if 2:1 mode does create big dips into it
The test is very consistent, but also fakes fast by different core freq speeds


----------



## OCmember

Just picked up a 2214PGS 5800X3D


----------



## Blameless

OCmember said:


> Just picked up a 2214PGS 5800X3D


That's the newest batch I've seen so far.

Let us know how low you can go on all core CO and how high on FCLK.


----------



## BHS1975

Blameless said:


> That's the newest batch I've seen so far.
> 
> Let us know how low you can go on all core CO and how high on FCLK.


Can't most of them do -30 at stock vcore? Mine does -30 -30 -30 -28 -30 -30 -30 -30 with a -0.05 offset.


----------



## tcclaviger

IloveShoes said:


> Have anyone else noticed odd reporting behavior from hwinfo when doing bclk oc. At first i thought my core0 was just really bad, but didnt add up to the increases in benchmark scores. Then i noticed that the core0 speed and the L3 cache speed matched up in hwinfo.
> 
> View attachment 2559572


HWINFO gets a little wonky with BCLK increases...
Effective Speed is accurate to boot bclk not in Windows bclk changes once snapshot polling is disabled (except core 0 thread 0, seems bugged and stuck at multiplier x 100 value)
Core Ratio values are accurate once snapshot polling is disabled
Performance Clock is accurate once snapshot polling is disabled and accounts for in Windows bclk edits when app is restarted
L3 speed will not be accurate uses simple formula (multiplier * 100)
Frequency Limit - Global is not accurate same as L3 speed reporting

The only good way to test for effective clock increases with raised bclk is performance vs speed metrics.
Example: CPU-Z 1t of 630 @ stock 4550 =630/4550=0.1384615
0.1384615 * 4741 = 656 which would be the expected score with perfect efficiency at 104.2 bclk

My CPU example is:
CPUz: 1t scores 620 full stock using 4530mhz (never hits 45.5). 620/4530=0.136865
104.2 BCLK results: 0.136865*4720mhz = 646 predicted. I see scores range from 646 to 649.4, within what I consider variance of a full fat "normal" installation of win10.
105 BCLK results: 0.136865*4756mhz = 651 predicted, again I see ranges from 650 to 653, indicating no loss.

*Disclaimer: *CPU-Z is a terrible program to check this with, just something quick and simple and is very easy to spot clock stretching with. It is not nearly stressful enough to induce errors in many cases, which will be observed using Prime/Ycruncher/OCCT.

This is an effective way to verify whether or not your WHEAs actually matter. If zero efficiency is lost as speeds climb, then no actual re-processing of data is occurring and silencer is, IMHO, acceptable. If efficiency loss is observed which is not the result of clock stretching or other factors, the WHEA are real errors and silencer should not be used. At 60:3 FCLK strap I get no efficiency loss observed, at 61:3 I do, so despite being "stable" 61:3 is a net performance loss in most cases.

Deficits of actual score vs expected score for a given speed can be caused by clock stretching, WHEA spam, FIT deciding "no soup for you" (aka too much or too little voltage for target speed) and cutting down multiplier, or simply hitting one of the 5 primary limiting factors: TDC/EDC/PPT/Heat/Voltage. Balancing these factors while not having access to multiplier manipulation is what makes maximizing BCLK OC performance on X3D a bit of a challenge.

See below for HWinfo C0T0 bug and L3 speed example.
HWinfo Fabric speeds don't account for bclk increases.
Zentimings also only accounts for bclk at boot, raising in windows is not accounted for.
AIDA report correctly whatever bclk is set to when the program loads, changes after loading need an AIDA restart to observe new bclk speed.
CPU-Z reports real time changes to bclk.


SNAPSHOT SNAPSHOT 
POLLING POLLING
DISABLED: ENABLED:















PS: Global C-States and Force OC Mode Disabled options can further muddle the reported values in HWinfo  It's "fun"...
PPS: @Veii GUI work has begun.


----------



## IamVoo

Two questions:

1. Should we be worried about voltage spikes running high LLC on this chip given how low the voltage can go especially with pbo tuner? I'm not so worried about the cores themselves as I am with the cache. Sure sub 1.2v all core is low but given the numbers floated around the max the cache can handle I'm slightly worried given spikes could surpass that.

2. I've never been able to bclk OC on this board but I admit I havent tried beyond increasing bclk frequency and also turning down pcie to 3.0 from 4.0, are there any tips, voltages, etc that I should increase or settings to change that could at least unlock some potential or is it all totally board specific in what they can do? (asus X570 tuf gaming plus)


----------



## Blameless

BHS1975 said:


> Can't most of them do -30 at stock vcore? Mine does -30 -30 -30 -28 -30 -30 -30 -30 with a -0.05 offset.


Most of them seem to, yes. However, there are enough exceptions to make it a point of curiosity.


----------



## tcclaviger

IamVoo said:


> Two questions:
> 
> 1. Should we be worried about voltage spikes running high LLC on this chip given how low the voltage can go especially with pbo tuner? I'm not so worried about the cores themselves as I am with the cache. Sure sub 1.2v all core is low but given the numbers floated around the max the cache can handle I'm slightly worried given spikes could surpass that.
> 
> 2. I've never been able to bclk OC on this board but I admit I havent tried beyond increasing bclk frequency and also turning down pcie to 3.0 from 4.0, are there any tips, voltages, etc that I should increase or settings to change that could at least unlock some potential or is it all totally board specific in what they can do? (asus X570 tuf gaming plus)



TUF Gaming has no external clock gen last I looked, however, you may be able to increase BCLK using an AGESA 1207 equiped bios or newer and retain PB2 functionality. It's still unverified, but it appears it is allowed now when using internal clock gen.
I have a V-Latch feature on C8E that captures highest/lowest voltage swings commanded by VRM Controller, kind of like oscilloscope behavior. I've not seen anything of concern that wasn't obvious junk data (junk data happens when using voltage suspension reporting 1.625vlatch max lmao). Typical 100 BCLK stock voltage vlatch max is ~1.32v.
The below is with LLC 4, Offset +0.00625, CO Tuned at roughly -24 each core, and 102.8 BCLK. Note the disparity between VID/SVI2/Vlatch Max, it is definitely catching swings above the normal viewable data, but it remains under 1.35v.









That said... It's arguably(not sure if it's actually arguable at this point) the most overbuilt VRM on AM4 with everything set to maximum response speeds so inexpensive boards with already sketchy VRM designs are bound to swing much higher and lower as loads start and stop.

Note: TUF gaming is not one the boards I would worry about over/under shoot voltages. More thinking the sub $100 4 phase VRM boards with no heatsink...


----------



## IloveShoes

tcclaviger said:


> HWINFO gets a little wonky with BCLK increases...
> Effective Speed is accurate to boot bclk not in Windows bclk changes once snapshot polling is disabled (except core 0 thread 0, seems bugged and stuck at multiplier x 100 value)
> Core Ratio values are accurate once snapshot polling is disabled
> Performance Clock is accurate once snapshot polling is disabled and accounts for in Windows bclk edits when app is restarted
> L3 speed will not be accurate uses simple formula (multiplier * 100)
> Frequency Limit - Global is not accurate same as L3 speed reporting
> 
> The only good way to test for effective clock increases with raised bclk is performance vs speed metrics.
> Example: CPU-Z 1t of 630 @ stock 4550 =630/4550=0.1384615
> 0.1384615 * 4741 = 656 which would be the expected score with perfect efficiency at 104.2 bclk
> 
> My CPU example is:
> CPUz: 1t scores 620 full stock using 4530mhz (never hits 45.5). 620/4530=0.136865
> 104.2 BCLK results: 0.136865*4720mhz = 646 predicted. I see scores range from 646 to 649.4, within what I consider variance of a full fat "normal" installation of win10.
> 105 BCLK results: 0.136865*4756mhz = 651 predicted, again I see ranges from 650 to 653, indicating no loss.
> 
> *Disclaimer: *CPU-Z is a terrible program to check this with, just something quick and simple and is very easy to spot clock stretching with. It is not nearly stressful enough to induce errors in many cases, which will be observed using Prime/Ycruncher/OCCT.
> 
> This is an effective way to verify whether or not your WHEAs actually matter. If zero efficiency is lost as speeds climb, then no actual re-processing of data is occurring and silencer is, IMHO, acceptable. If efficiency loss is observed which is not the result of clock stretching or other factors, the WHEA are real errors and silencer should not be used. At 60:3 FCLK strap I get no efficiency loss observed, at 61:3 I do, so despite being "stable" 61:3 is a net performance loss in most cases.
> 
> Deficits of actual score vs expected score for a given speed can be caused by clock stretching, WHEA spam, FIT deciding "no soup for you" (aka too much or too little voltage for target speed) and cutting down multiplier, or simply hitting one of the 5 primary limiting factors: TDC/EDC/PPT/Heat/Voltage. Balancing these factors while not having access to multiplier manipulation is what makes maximizing BCLK OC performance on X3D a bit of a challenge.
> 
> See below for HWinfo C0T0 bug and L3 speed example.
> HWinfo Fabric speeds don't account for bclk increases.
> Zentimings also only accounts for bclk at boot, raising in windows is not accounted for.
> AIDA report correctly whatever bclk is set to when the program loads, changes after loading need an AIDA restart to observe new bclk speed.
> CPU-Z reports real time changes to bclk.
> 
> 
> SNAPSHOT SNAPSHOT
> POLLING POLLING
> DISABLED: ENABLED:
> 
> View attachment 2559604
> View attachment 2559606
> 
> 
> PS: Global C-States and Force OC Mode Disabled options can further muddle the reported values in HWinfo  It's "fun"...
> PPS: @Veii GUI work has begun.


Thank you for this excellent answer which explains many of my observations.

On my asrock x470 tiachi stock setup is only good for 615.

The same cpu scores 624 stock on my unify x max.

Right now in experimenting with bclk 109 on the taichi, which needs positive CO values to be stable. I get som regression because of the positive CO but so far its stable in cpu z, occt and core cycler. I can try and post synthetic later. I need to run SMT off else it will reset before i can apply pbo values in windows.

@109 the single core score of cpu z is around 660 a bit low but the result of positive CO. It gets some nice gains in L3 speed though.


----------



## hotlookman

Hi guys . I got a question regarding 5800x3d . Now i have 5600x with 4850mhz + curve optimizer ( cinebench 21 is 1570 single and 11600 multi ) and also im waiting for 5800x3d to deliver . Is it helpfull to OC 3D processor for games only , or just curve optimize it at ryzen master app? My rig is 3080 ti oc , and 4 x8 gb balistix sport lt 3733 mhz 16-19-16 -16- 32 wit b450 auros elite .
Thanks for answer.


----------



## Nighthog

Started to play with LCLK Manual clock settings and have finally found something that has an effect on my WHEA troubles on my 5800X3D sample @ 1933FCLK.

Setting Manual ~1000-1002~ Mhz for both Low & Max values have started to give results of less WHEA issues overall. Still testing at what exact frequency is best but seems to be close to the 1000Mhz mark but not exactly 1000Mhz.
100-200Mhz lower-higher had no great results at all so it's quite specific on what values it likes. 1500-2000Mhz didn't even POST.
Will return after I've verified it's working on a specific value. (if it's doable to have no errors)

EDIT: Hasn't been working out as well as expected. It reduced the idle, low load WHEA issue basically to nothing but didn't effect high-load high-intensity WHEA issues when Memory is being utilized with TM5 or LinpackExtreme at all in general.


----------



## blu3dragon

hotlookman said:


> Hi guys . I got a question regarding 5800x3d . Now i have 5600x with 4850mhz + curve optimizer ( cinebench 21 is 1570 single and 11600 multi ) and also im waiting for 5800x3d to deliver . Is it helpfull to OC 3D processor for games only , or just curve optimize it at ryzen master app? My rig is 3080 ti oc , and 4 x8 gb balistix sport lt 3733 mhz 16-19-16 -16- 32 wit b450 auros elite .
> Thanks for answer.


It's worth reading through this thread. You won't have access to PBO settings within the bios, but there are some workarounds to be able to set curve offsets which make a difference in benchmarks, but may not be that noticable in games.

However, even without PBO an x3d will be faster in general in games than your 5600x with PBO. The difference will vary depending on the game and also resolution since the 5600x is already pretty capable of pushing high fps.


----------



## Taraquin

blu3dragon said:


> It's worth reading through this thread. You won't have access to PBO settings within the bios, but there are some workarounds to be able to set curve offsets which make a difference in benchmarks, but may not be that noticable in games.
> 
> However, even without PBO an x3d will be faster in general in games than your 5600x with PBO. The difference will vary depending on the game and also resolution since the 5600x is already pretty capable of pushing high fps.


If you tuned your ram max on the 5600X and used +200 pbo + co you gain about 25% vs running stock. 5800X3D nets up to max 10% with CO and ramtuning so the difference is not that huge if you unleashed all potential in 5600X.


----------



## hotlookman

blu3dragon said:


> It's worth reading through this thread. You won't have access to PBO settings within the bios, but there are some workarounds to be able to set curve offsets which make a difference in benchmarks, but may not be that noticable in games.
> 
> However, even without PBO an x3d will be faster in general in games than your 5600x with PBO. The difference will vary depending on the game and also resolution since the 5600x is already pretty capable of pushing high fps.


Thanks for answer . As i understands there will not be much difference in gpu bound titles , but big improvement overall in cpu bound games ( or just bad optimised ) also i hope ill get more 0.1% and 1% fps ,because for example at warzone at 2k it deeps too low sometimes. The thing is im playing 2k 240 hz samsung Odyssey g7 32 and want to be able get close to 240 hz )


----------



## ocisdead

Blameless said:


> As long as global C states are enabled, disabling all the SoC and fabric power management isn't likely to hurt anything. Unless you are raising BCLK you aren't likely to be power limited anywhere with these parts and the tiny bit saved outside the actual cores won't matter.
> 
> You could always try it both ways though...I doubt it will be a noticeable difference either way. Personally, I leave them set the way you have them described here.


apbdis = 1, soc p-state = P0, df-state = disabled on Matisse results in a consistent +2ns aida latency penalty. Also +3w more idle consumption but I don't think anyone would care about that.


----------



## lunatik

Hi, finally my 5800x3d arrived and haven't had much time to mess around. Sadly made the mistake of updating my bios before i read i'll lose pbo from previous saved profiles on 5600x.

What should you use for CO stability tests? y-cruncher/corecycler? prime? Never really used it on my 5600x since i figured all core to be superior in multithread. None of the games i play are single core..

So far haven't found stable 4000mhz voltages. (I know atleast the mobo is capable, since my 5600x did 4000mhz without whea's) I can get it "windows" stable but not tm5 etc..
No problems with 3800mhz tho, seems to work with whatever you set there.


----------



## OCmember

On my 2208PGS I've ran OCCT, TM5 anta777 extreme, y-cruncher and all tests have been stable but every once in a while.. maybe once a day I was hearing some weird star wars type audio issue, from what I remember it related to voltages somewhere. Here's Zen Timings










I increased the vsoc to 1.0975 and one of my games started behaving really bad. Stuttering, star wars audio freak out, unplayable. CS:GO didn't seem to have an issue with the vsoc increase. I'm thinking it could be a couple of things but I'm not sure: VDIMM voltage too low, maybe too much vsoc, ClkDrvStr too low at 40ohms, or one of those VDDG VDDP settings. Any insights on this?

I'm on Agesa 1.2.0.6 B for my Rev 1.0 Xtreme

EDIT: gonna try lowering the vsoc to 1.0813v and increasing the VDIMM to 1.51v


----------



## lunatik

This is what i use currently, i have only ran 1usmus config 3 cycles - so not sure it's actually stable. VDIMM should be 1.51V (could still tune a bit but i don't want to buy a cooler or another kit if can't get 4000mhz stable)

Made a quick test with prime95 -30 all cores without smt to check how high the temps get since i haven't bought a cooler for this, if it's even needed at the current state of overclocks. 20min showed 83.5C max with a 30 euro air cooler.

corecycler hasn't crashed after an hour so far with -30.


----------



## Blameless

ocisdead said:


> apbdis = 1, soc p-state = P0, df-state = disabled on Matisse results in a consistent +2ns aida latency penalty.


I never saw such a large difference on my 3700X, 3900X, or 3950X.

On my 5800X and 5800X3D, there is an even more negligible difference, usually _slightly_ in favor of APBDIS = 1.

I'm testing forced P-state = P1 now to see if there are any downsides.



lunatik said:


> What should you use for CO stability tests? y-cruncher/corecycler? prime? Never really used it on my 5600x since i figured all core to be superior in multithread. None of the games i play are single core..


Even multi-threaded apps can easily prompt overboosting on one or two cores, which can result in stability issues that most multithreaded stress tests will never find.

This is less of a concern on the 5800X3D as the gap between all core and single core boost is only ~100MHz. Still, it's worth some testing if you want an real confidence that negative COs are stable.



OCmember said:


> On my 2208PGS I've ran OCCT, TM5 anta777 extreme, y-cruncher and all tests have been stable but every once in a while.. maybe once a day I was hearing some weird star wars type audio issue, from what I remember it related to voltages somewhere. Here's Zen Timings
> 
> View attachment 2559704
> 
> 
> I increased the vsoc to 1.0975 and one of my games started behaving really bad. Stuttering, star wars audio freak out, unplayable. CS:GO didn't seem to have an issue with the vsoc increase. I'm thinking it could be a couple of things but I'm not sure: VDIMM voltage too low, maybe too much vsoc, ClkDrvStr too low at 40ohms, or one of those VDDG VDDP settings. Any insights on this?
> 
> I'm on Agesa 1.2.0.6 B for my Rev 1.0 Xtreme
> 
> EDIT: gonna try lowering the vsoc to 1.0813v and increasing the VDIMM to 1.51v


You probably don't need the VDDGs, or even SoC, that high and VDDG CCD can usually be at least 50mV less than VDDG IOD. VDDGs shouldn't be the issue your're experiencing with audio, unless you're also getting WHEA errors.


----------



## OCmember

Blameless said:


> You probably don't need the VDDGs, or even SoC, that high and VDDG CCD can usually be at least 50mV less than VDDG IOD. VDDGs shouldn't be the issue your're experiencing with audio, unless you're also getting WHEA errors.


The VDDGs and VDDP were left on auto. I really don't know which part of the bios to edit them in. I've seen two different places as far as i can remember.

What started making those audio noises a little worse is when I enabled both NICs on the board which are connected through the X570 hub so maybe the volts to the X570 connect are a little off? Which would they be?

EDIT: Changes that seemed to help: These were done all at once so it's possible a combination or a single change in setting helped

APBDIS from 1 back to Auto
DF-States from Disabled back to Auto

I did however change NBIO LCLK DPM all from Auto to 2

The troubled game is running smoothly so far and I haven't heard an audio glitch in the past 5 min.. will update soon

EDIT2: So I got 5-10m into the game that was giving me trouble. DF-States is still set to Auto, but I turned APBDIS back to 1 which enabled SOC P-States and that's at P0 and the game is still running smoothly. So it looks like it's going to be a confirmation about DF-States set @ Disabled being a problem. Will continue to observe the behavior. Still might need to keep APBDIS back on Auto


----------



## sealxohd

My WHEA (free) experience so far with my set of hardware (X570 Master rev 1.2, latest bios + 5800X3D (2209PGS)):


APBDIS seems to not matter
Disableing c-state and df-states seems to have an negative effect
LCLK DPM levels other than auto **** the bed and throw WHEAs, with auto everything is fine, which seems odd concerning the experience of others
2066 needs yeet volts compared to 2033. I messed with 2066 again today and even tried 2100 and 2133 after I read about Vei`s 1.3 V SOC adventures without any degradation
VDDG_CCD needs to be suprisingly high. Even for 3933 I need more than a volt
2100 WHEA free might be possible with uber yeet volts but Im not sure. I got many WHEAs even tho my MP5_BUSY reading was 20
2133 does not post, even with 1.3 V SOC get, 2 V PLL, 1.2 IOD and 1.15 CCD + tweaking voltages like the PM voltages

- I also know two people who can run 2100 FCLK without WHEAs and auto volts. Just for performance, tweaking is necessary. Perfect match of board and cpu I guess

I will probably daily 2033 with very relaxed volts, even if the 2066 setting is probaly fine for 24/7 use. I dont want to ruin this baby.

I also benched 4133 1:1 vs 4533 2:1 in BF5 with the CPU bench szene + settings from PCGH. (Im GPU limited tho and in the 1:1 bench I forgot to enable CO (-30 all core is stable for me))

Edit: Posted a wrong ZenMonitor screenshot for my 2066 setting, it´s now corrected.


----------



## MrHoof

tcclaviger said:


> TUF Gaming has no external clock gen last I looked, however, you may be able to increase BCLK using an AGESA 1207 equiped bios or newer and retain PB2 functionality. It's still unverified, but it appears it is allowed now when using internal clock gen.
> I have a V-Latch feature on C8E that captures highest/lowest voltage swings commanded by VRM Controller, kind of like oscilloscope behavior. I've not seen anything of concern that wasn't obvious junk data (junk data happens when using voltage suspension reporting 1.625vlatch max lmao). Typical 100 BCLK stock voltage vlatch max is ~1.32v.
> The below is with LLC 4, Offset +0.00625, CO Tuned at roughly -24 each core, and 102.8 BCLK. Note the disparity between VID/SVI2/Vlatch Max, it is definitely catching swings above the normal viewable data, but it remains under 1.35v.
> 
> View attachment 2559612
> 
> 
> That said... It's arguably(not sure if it's actually arguable at this point) the most overbuilt VRM on AM4 with everything set to maximum response speeds so inexpensive boards with already sketchy VRM designs are bound to swing much higher and lower as loads start and stop.
> 
> Note: TUF gaming is not one the boards I would worry about over/under shoot voltages. More thinking the sub $100 4 phase VRM boards with no heatsink...


Tested bclk overclock yesterday 1207 on asus x570i after buying a 2nd nvme and removing sata completly, can boot 102.5 didnt try higher or lower.
Same behavoir as 1203c its just completly disables boost and even more weird reducing max multi to 33.3 to stay at 3.4GHZ.
But bclk is applied correctly to IF/Mem frequency so it does indeed increase.


Spoiler: testing 1900fclk atm at 1v soc. Cant get even idle WHEA free over 1900.


----------



## tcclaviger

MrHoof said:


> Tested bclk overclock yesterday 1207 on asus x570i after buying a 2nd nvme and removing sata completly, can boot 102.5 didnt try higher or lower.
> Same behavoir as 1203c its just completly disables boost and even more weird reducing max multi to 33.3 to stay at 3.4GHZ.
> But bclk is applied correctly to IF/Mem frequency so it does indeed increase.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: testing 1900fclk atm at 1v soc. Cant get even idle WHEA free over 1900.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2559729


Thanks for that. Confirms the change is an Asus change specific to Crosshair or some subset of Crosshairs, and not an AMD change.


----------



## nikoli707

What is a safe bclk to start with testing? Is 101.0mhz fine if i only have nvme?


----------



## tcclaviger

Working on narrowing MP5_Busy and WHEA generation and find myself in need of a max load integer only CPU stress test. I can't think of a heavy one off the top of my head.

Any suggestions?


----------



## bmagnien

tcclaviger said:


> Thanks for that. Confirms the change is an Asus change specific to Crosshair or some subset of Crosshairs, and not an AMD change.


I can confirm same experience on my x570-I without external clockgen. Both 1206 and 1207 wouldn’t boost with bclk above 100


----------



## bmagnien

sealxohd said:


> My WHEA (free) experience so far with my set of hardware (X570 Master rev 1.2, latest bios + 5800X3D (2209PGS)):
> 
> 
> APBDIS seems to not matter
> Disableing c-state and df-states seems to have an negative effect
> LCLK DPM levels other than auto **** the bed and throw WHEAs, with auto everything is fine, which seems odd concerning the experience of others
> 2066 needs yeet volts compared to 2033. I messed with 2066 again today and even tried 2100 and 2133 after I read about Vei`s 1.3 V SOC adventures without any degradation
> VDDG_CCD needs to be suprisingly high. Even for 3933 I need more than a volt
> 2100 WHEA free might be possible with uber yeet volts but Im not sure. I got many WHEAs even tho my MP5_BUSY reading was 20
> 2133 does not post, even with 1.3 V SOC get, 2 V PLL, 1.2 IOD and 1.15 CCD + tweaking voltages like the PM voltages
> 
> - I also know two people who can run 2100 FCLK without WHEAs and auto volts. Just for performance, tweaking is necessary. Perfect match of board and cpu I guess
> 
> I will probably daily 2033 with very relaxed volts, even if the 2066 setting is probaly fine for 24/7 use. I dont want to ruin this baby.
> 
> I also benched 4133 1:1 vs 4533 2:1 in BF5 with the CPU bench szene + settings from PCGH. (Im GPU limited tho and in the 1:1 bench I forgot to enable CO (-30 all core is stable for me))
> 
> Edit: Posted a wrong ZenMonitor screenshot for my 2066 setting, it´s now corrected.


You run 1.65vdimm on your daily? And your ram temps stay below 50c?


----------



## Blameless

tcclaviger said:


> Working on narrowing MP5_Busy and WHEA generation and find myself in need of a max load integer only CPU stress test. I can't think of a heavy one off the top of my head.
> 
> Any suggestions?


y-cruncher N32 or N64?

Edit: BKT uses a lot less ram/cache but is a higher core load on my 5800X3D.


----------



## tcclaviger

Perfect, thank you blameless. I think I'm finally making some headway on narrowing down the component causing occasional whea 19s...


----------



## Veii

bmagnien said:


> You run 1.65vdimm on your daily? And your ram temps stay below 50c?


around 1.67v here, without a directed air cooler
~ 22° ambient, soon 26° - summer is coming
VDIMM means nothing , amperage is creating heat. Amperage you influence with RTTs and CAD_BUS

Don't know how warm they get,
Only remember Rev.E MAX at 1.7v was about 42° in 30° ambient day 
Decent, but this Voltage == Heat theory should fall soon, hopefully


----------



## TimeDrapery

Blameless said:


> This had occurred to me, which is why I ran the tests several times, rebooting between each to retrain. It could be a margin of error thing, but that would be quite a coincidence, given the number of samples I have.
> 
> If the cTDP alteration isn't working, which is quite possible, then it's most likely that ABPDIS = 0 vs. 1 (and the related P-states) is responsible for all the differences I'm seeing. I figured this would be strange as SoC power consumption went up, but thinking about it further, transients from non-static P-states could be responsible for that. So, I'm testing this now.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a believer in the existence of bugs. I don't think AMD would go out of their way to fake disable a feature, but I do think it quite possible that they screwed something up. Wouldn't be the first time.


Okay, I dig what you're saying about bugs for sure... I wasn't really attempting to say that was what you thought, more of an attempt to illustrate how unlikely that would be

I think you're in to something when you talk of the cause behind the difference being APBDIS' rather than cTDP


----------



## IamVoo

Veii said:


> around 1.67v here, without a directed air cooler
> ~ 22° ambient, soon 26° - summer is coming
> VDIMM means nothing , amperage is creating heat. Amperage you influence with RTTs and CAD_BUS
> 
> Don't know how warm they get,
> Only remember Rev.E MAX at 1.7v was about 42° in 30° ambient day
> Decent, but this Voltage == Heat theory should fall soon, hopefully


Is there information any where you could link that shows/teaches how to influence amperage by manipulating RTT and cad_bus? I've always been weary of pushing my memory too hard even though it's b-die because these dimms dont have temperature sensors(team dark pro 3200cl14). Had one of them die on me a bit over a year ago and it wasnt even pulling 1.5v, or maybe it was right around there. Ever since then I've tried to stay in the 1.4s, typically 1.45-.46 range max with a 90mm fan pointed directly at them. Luckily team group memory is life time warranty so I got a replacement.


----------



## sealxohd

bmagnien said:


> You run 1.65vdimm on your daily? And your ram temps stay below 50c?


My RAM peaks at 35 °C. Pretty much what Veii already said + my RAM is water cooled which helps a lot, especially since I have a DR kit.


----------



## RedF

Veii said:


> around 1.67v here, without a directed air cooler
> ~ 22° ambient, soon 26° - summer is coming
> VDIMM means nothing , amperage is creating heat. Amperage you influence with RTTs and CAD_BUS
> 
> Don't know how warm they get,
> Only remember Rev.E MAX at 1.7v was about 42° in 30° ambient day
> Decent, but this Voltage == Heat theory should fall soon, hopefully


So less resistance means less heat.
Sounds logical. : )


----------



## dragn09

why is amd still linking every bclk? its so easy on intel to use 130% with some boards


----------



## RedF

Over 5h stress testing done : )


----------



## tcclaviger

dragn09 said:


> why is amd still linking every bclk? its so easy on intel to use 130% with some boards


This. AMD have seperated it in the past on previous chips. Seems like a big step back to have clock rate between GPU and I/O hub impacted by bclk, should just use a fixed base 100 rate, thereby seperating all external devices to I/O rate and all CPU internal to clock gen rate.

Even more perplexing....why are boards like mine that have multiple external clockgens still coupled....

Even even more perplexing why does 1206b "Auto" vcore + LLC3 or 4 turn into a static voltage of 1.21vcore on C8E yet boosting still works and vcore can be manipulated using TurboV Core and maintains fixed voltage behavior?! I'm so confused, but this explains why I was unable to replicate my 1206b results on 1207.

Offset + 0.00 (or any other value) acts as expected, floating up and down from 0.6-1.3v. with Auto behaving like fixed voltage suddenly -30 all core is stable and acts like setting scalar 10x, where it just slams against max multiplier as hard as possible until hitting a power limit, FIT V_Latch doesn't ever get bumped because it's fixed CPU voltage...

All things I wish I understood.


----------



## sealxohd

RedF said:


> Over 5h stress testing done : )
> View attachment 2559779


Did you enbale the cache for Karhu? 5 hours seem a bit long for 10k Karhu. With cache enabled, you should see 180+ MB/s in Karhu. Maybe you need to tweak the voltages some more.


----------



## LtMatt

sealxohd said:


> Did you enbale the cache for Karhu? 5 hours seem a bit long for 10k Karhu. With cache enabled, you should see 180+ MB/s in Karhu. Maybe you need to tweak the voltages some more.


How do you enable cache in karhu?


----------



## sealxohd

LtMatt said:


> How do you enable cache in karhu?


In the "advanced" section.









You can also enable "Stress FPU". But as a stress test for WHEAs something like LinPack is better.


----------



## Clukos

I can even boot 4333 1:1 but performance starts to degrade


----------



## Nighthog

Nighthog said:


> Started to play with LCLK Manual clock settings and have finally found something that has an effect on my WHEA troubles on my 5800X3D sample @ 1933FCLK.
> 
> Setting Manual ~1000-1002~ Mhz for both Low & Max values have started to give results of less WHEA issues overall. Still testing at what exact frequency is best but seems to be close to the 1000Mhz mark but not exactly 1000Mhz.
> 100-200Mhz lower-higher had no great results at all so it's quite specific on what values it likes. 1500-2000Mhz didn't even POST.
> Will return after I've verified it's working on a specific value. (if it's doable to have no errors)
> 
> EDIT: Hasn't been working out as well as expected. It reduced the idle, low load WHEA issue basically to nothing but didn't effect high-load high-intensity WHEA issues when Memory is being utilized with TM5 or LinpackExtreme at all in general.


After further tries it wasn't as good as I thought. Only minimized the severity of the issue but didn't solve the issue and still getting WHEA no matter what else I tried in the end.
Anything that starts to access memory will in turn start to produce WHEA errors. I could not reduce or effect the severity of it during load cycles to any real effect.

LCLK only had a positive effect on IDLE WHEA issues. But it was not dependant on any specific Frequency, only that you set it to Manual setting and something in the ballpark of similar values for Low & Max in quick summary. 
No idea what is set with AUTO but had better results with all Manual settings I tried at least but there was barely any difference on what values I tried other than it preferred something close 800-900 in general for a small effect rather than other values as a general feeling of what kind of severity of WHEA was produced. Nothing substantial. You could practically set it for anything that would POST.

Seems my CPU sample is one of those that can't run WHEA free above 1900FCLK.


----------



## OCmember

OCmember said:


> EDIT: Changes that seemed to help: These were done all at once so it's possible a combination or a single change in setting helped
> 
> APBDIS from 1 back to Auto
> DF-States from Disabled back to Auto
> 
> I did however change NBIO LCLK DPM all from Auto to 2
> 
> The troubled game is running smoothly so far and I haven't heard an audio glitch in the past 5 min.. will update soon
> 
> EDIT2: So I got 5-10m into the game that was giving me trouble. DF-States is still set to Auto, but I turned APBDIS back to 1 which enabled SOC P-States and that's at P0 and the game is still running smoothly. So it looks like it's going to be a confirmation about DF-States set @ Disabled being a problem. Will continue to observe the behavior. Still might need to keep APBDIS back on Auto


The bad gaming behavior came back: I decided to double check the changes I made last night this morning and enabled both nics with DF-States Auto, APBDIS 1, NBIO LCLK DPM (all) 2, even with stability tests passing e.g. OCCT, HNT y-cruncher, TM5 extreme. I then set APBDIS to Auto but kept NBIO LCLK.. same issue. Possible corrupt bios I thought? ... anyways it seems those changes while they did help, ended up being a temporary fix for some larger issue going on. I did find one WHEA error since installing the chip and running it like this on release day (April 20th) and that was on 5/1/2022 when I enabled both NICS. I have not seen a WHEA error since.

EDIT: Odd, I just tried lowering the IF, Mem, etc. clock 1:1:1 to 1866/3733 with the adjusted timings and the bios crashed on reboot


----------



## Dmand

Hello everyone. I am new here and just built a rig with my first AMD cpu, the 5800x3d. The mobo is asus rog b550 f gaming wifi.
My cpu will not go below 3600 MHz idle on desktop. I have a feeling it is some bios setting and name i am not familiar with since it is my first amd cpu. Can anyone explain these idle clocks? I feel like something is wrong but i just don't know enough.

Using the windows balanced power plan the idle clocks do not go below 3600. Using power saver mode they will idle down. Using high performance mode acts the same way as balanced power plan mode.

All bios settings were set to default. Only thing I changed was to enable D.C.O.P or docp, whatever it is... to get my ran to run at advertised speeds. I then set that back to default for now and still showing the same high idle clocks.

At max clock, 1 or 2 cores will go to 4.54 while the rest go to 4.45 GHz

Windows 10
6900xt
5800x3d
32gb 3600 14-15-15-35

Mobo bios version 2604 AGESA V2 PI 1.2.0.6b


----------



## OCmember

@Dmand First day mine was installed I seen the 3.4GHz idle Since then it's been 3.6GHz idle


----------



## Luggage

Dmand said:


> Hello everyone. I am new here and just built a rig with my first AMD cpu, the 5800x3d. The mobo is asus rog b550 f gaming wifi.
> My cpu will not go below 3600 MHz idle on desktop. I have a feeling it is some bios setting and name i am not familiar with since it is my first amd cpu. Can anyone explain these idle clocks? I feel like something is wrong but i just don't know enough.
> 
> Using the windows balanced power plan the idle clocks do not go below 3600. Using power saver mode they will idle down. Using high performance mode acts the same way as balanced power plan mode.
> 
> All bios settings were set to default. Only thing I changed was to enable D.C.O.P or docp, whatever it is... to get my ran to run at advertised speeds. I then set that back to default for now and still showing the same high idle clocks.
> 
> At max clock, 1 or 2 cores will go to 4.54 while the rest go to 4.45 GHz
> 
> Windows 10
> 6900xt
> 5800x3d
> 32gb 3600 14-15-15-35
> 
> Mobo bios version 2604 AGESA V2 PI 1.2.0.6b


Check task manager, you might run some app or service keeping you from being idle.


----------



## BHS1975

I was able to get mine to post at 1900 fclk using LN2 mode but I couldn't get it stable in windows.


----------



## OCmember

I'm getting a bios debug code 22 when trying to boot at 1866/3733. Bios crashes and does a full reset. The kit use to run 3733 fine with my 5800X so it's pointing towards the chip or IF

EDIT: Seems even when I try n set my timings to Ryzen Calculator PCB rev A2 tCWL is stuck at 14 when it calls for 16


----------



## BHS1975

OCmember said:


> I'm getting a bios debug code 22 when trying to boot at 1866/3733. Bios crashes and does a full reset. The kit use to run 3733 fine with my 5800X so it's pointing towards the chip or IF
> 
> EDIT: Seems even when I try n set my timings to Ryzen Calculator PCB rev A2 tCWL is stuck at 14 when it calls for 16


I thought you had it running at 1900 fclk.


----------



## OCmember

BHS1975 said:


> I thought you had it running at 1900 fclk.


It is but there's an issue going on somewhere I have yet to find. Then I tried lowering the fclk and then that issue appeared.


----------



## BHS1975

OCmember said:


> It is but there's an issue going on somewhere I have yet to find. Then I tried lowering the fclk and then that issue appeared.
> 
> View attachment 2559881


Have you tried lowering your SOC voltage to around 1.025? It seems pretty high for 1900. I only need 1v for 1866.


----------



## marashz

Hello all!

I have 5800X3D on Asus CH6. Do x370 support memory speeds over 3800MHz? Officialy this MB supports 3600 OC, but I pushed to 3800 now, can't get 4000 and too lazy atm to check why, because motherboard doesn't support, or need voltages / timings adjustments. (or just Crucial 3200CL16 hits it's limit)


----------



## Nighthog

OCmember said:


> I'm getting a bios debug code 22 when trying to boot at 1866/3733. Bios crashes and does a full reset. The kit use to run 3733 fine with my 5800X so it's pointing towards the chip or IF
> 
> EDIT: Seems even when I try n set my timings to Ryzen Calculator PCB rev A2 tCWL is stuck at 14 when it calls for 16


Error 22 on Post usually has meant not enough voltage for FCLK and or SoC/IOD for current speed/timings settings. Are you running lower values? Might need a extra voltage Boost. Otherwise you might be trying to run too tight timings for the memory voltage applied.


----------



## blu3dragon

marashz said:


> Hello all!
> 
> I have 5800X3D on Asus CH6. Do x370 support memory speeds over 3800MHz? Officialy this MB supports 3600 OC, but I pushed to 3800 now, can't get 4000 and too lazy atm to check why, because motherboard doesn't support, or need voltages / timings adjustments. (or just Crucial 3200CL16 hits it's limit)


I would guess it is the memory or the voltage and timings. OP was using a cross hair VI extreme.


----------



## OCmember

@BHS1975 I'll try today and test lower vsoc for 1900, thanks. I had originally started off around 1.0875 due to my experience with my 5800X

@Nighthog I kept everything the same except timings from 1900 (see recent screen shot) that included recently lowered vsoc to 1.0500v which passed numerous tests. I am currently in the middle of running tests with 1900 but lower vsoc. I've booted and am 30m into TM5 extreme with 1.000v vsoc. Also I started off with a CBR23 Multi Core run @ 1.000v and that passed. Will get into OCCT and y-cruncher later today.

EDIT: so far these tests have passed 1900/3800 using 1.0000v vsoc. forgive the TM5 test, didn't realize the clock speeds were covered up. System seems stable. This is with Global C-States Disabled, DF-States Disabled, APBDIS 1, SOC P-state 0, but with the NBIO LCLK DPM set to Auto. No WHEA errors during the tests. Just that odd one and only one on May 1st since install on April 20th release day. And it's been running at 1900 since install day. Will further monitor that. Last test will be y-cruncher doing HNT test #17 for close to an hour.

That odd issue hasn't appeared during gaming but I'm not optimistic about it. It just came out of no where. Still waiting for that to appear but will be able to live without it if it doesn't, lol
























Will test a lower fclk after using 1866/3733 to see if that's still an issue.


----------



## tcclaviger

marashz said:


> Hello all!
> 
> I have 5800X3D on Asus CH6. Do x370 support memory speeds over 3800MHz? Officialy this MB supports 3600 OC, but I pushed to 3800 now, can't get 4000 and too lazy atm to check why, because motherboard doesn't support, or need voltages / timings adjustments. (or just Crucial 3200CL16 hits it's limit)


C6E is temperamental over 3800, remember it has different topology than the successor boards as it is a T-Topo board not Daisy Chain. As such it is easier to run 4 stick configurations but gets little/no benefit from dropping to a 2 stick configuration allowing for extra speed.

On the C6E I found the 4x8 Patriot Vipers much easier to run fast than the 2x16 Gskill sticks I have. PVs are known to be easy to drive to high speeds. The C6E trace layout itself becomes the limit much past 4000 for daily setup. Good news is 5800X3D doesn't really care all that much if it's at 3800 C14 or 4000+ C15 for gaming performance.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daily setup until new hardware:

Have been doing a ton of game capture and video encoding the last few days, not a single crash/oddity at 102.8 bclk and 59:3 divider or through hours testing various voltage configurations and how the static vs offset voltage configurations impact benchmark results. LLC 3, Core Voltage: Auto, the voltage range is tiny, 1.18 to 1.21 is the range it swings within.

60:3 divider works just fine, exactly the same results in stability testing, however, it has aa little trouble posting at 60:3, so I have to post at 59:3, then enter bios and bump to 60:3, a sure sign the IMC/IOD/PHY is essentially at/beyond it's limit.

In HNT this config throws about 1 WHEA 19 every 2 minutes or so, so I'm using silencer. Going to file it away in the same folder as 5950x, don't care, stable enough is stable enough. I cannot get it to throw WHEA unless the workload is both AVX/AVX2 and high memory transactional, one or the other throws nothing, I suspect it's the physical substrate that can't handle the load.

VDIMM is 1.5 not what is shown in pic (zT can't read it correctly). TM5 1usmus v3 25 cycles, anta777 Extreme 5 cycles, and absolute 5 cycle stable. 20 minutes of corecycler per core AVX2 Heavyshort stable and finally I ran it in OCCT for an hour each of small, medium, large using AVX2 static extreme with no issues.

I do not accept that a corrected error means anything significant when it passes that regime of torture, has no issues daily in any workload/game, and shows no score regression.


----------



## blu3dragon

So with my cpu and a b550-F it looks like upping VSOC to 1.15 gets rid of the few WHEAs I had at 1900 FLCK. This is with LLC 1.
I put the other voltages at auto just to see where they would go. Have not tried lowering any of them.
Auto VSOC was at 1.1v, but I still had WHEAs at that level.










The thing is this didn't seem to help improve my 1800 FCLK results in any of the handful of benchmarks I ran. Need more testing, but I will probably settle back on 1800 FLCK for daily use as I can keep voltages and therefore SoC power much lower then.


----------



## tcclaviger

So there's a common thread between our CPUs, where going from 1.1 to 1.15 vsoc can push higher FCLK but it's a big jump for a small gain, the difference being just sample variance of the points where the CPUs need the extra voltage.

I found over 1.15 vsoc reintroduces it's more errors as signal to noise sms to degrade with too much voltage.

Found lower ProcODT from 43.6 to 36.9 lets me run up to 1.18 vsoc and 1.6 vdimm without the reintroduced errors, but, I get no extra TRFC/tCL and very little extra MT/s from the extra voltage so no need. 

I wonder how this behaviour we've both spotted aligns to other B2s.
-----------

Decided to actually play SotTR today, who knew it is a beautiful game lol. It runs impeccably, Gsync Fast, Highest, 3440x1440, RT Shadows Ultra, DLSS quality and it is still more often than not over my refresh rate of 165, as smooth as. DLSS off was around 110 in heavy areas and 150 elsewhere.

As old as it is, quite sad few games match it in visual quality. Personally I find it nicer to look at than most AAA released since Turing dropped like Control, Metro EE, CP2077.

Really makes me wonder *** is wrong with titles that struggle to hit/hold 100 fps and look worse...just, really lame.

Speaking of that....
I threw some quick capture analytics on recordings of a game that runs poorly, Star Citizen, into a playlist. First 5 seconds of each is the analytics portion, mostly for my own future reference.



https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOe3QhjvNEvSjdeJw2wEFlhJg8yyxHKNu


----------



## Dmand

OCmember said:


> @Dmand First day mine was installed I seen the 3.4GHz idle Since then it's been 3.6GHz idle


Is this normal? My last cpu was a Intel 8700k. I am not familiar on how the new ones are supposed to act.

EDIT. Am I correct in thinking the c state control will fix this behavior?


----------



## OCmember

@tcclaviger I found lowering my vsoc from 1.0875v improved stability.. even at 1.050v my test game still felt a little off. 1.000v (min value) and things felt smooth the past day or two

@Dmand Sorry I don't know. Give it a try


----------



## BHS1975

blu3dragon said:


> So with my cpu and a b550-F it looks like upping VSOC to 1.15 gets rid of the few WHEAs I had at 1900 FLCK. This is with LLC 1.
> I put the other voltages at auto just to see where they would go. Have not tried lowering any of them.
> Auto VSOC was at 1.1v, but I still had WHEAs at that level.
> 
> View attachment 2560041
> 
> 
> The thing is this didn't seem to help improve my 1800 FCLK results in any of the handful of benchmarks I ran. Need more testing, but I will probably settle back on 1800 FLCK for daily use as I can keep voltages and therefore SoC power much lower then.


Yeah just run it at 1866 and tighten up your ram as much as you can and keep ram under 45C. I can run run 1v SOC and vddp etc in the 800s mV.


----------



## ice445

So I just got mine, batch # is 2208PGS. So far I'm really impressed. I came from a 5600X so I wasn't expecting anything massive, but in CS:GO, a game I play often, I went from having great FPS with the occasional dip into the 200's, to literally 399FPS constant. It actually sits on the cap the entire time during a competitive 5V5 match. Insane.

Temps wise I'm even more surprised, I'm using my old DeepCool Gammaxx 400V2 while I wait for my Arctic Freezer II 240 to show up, and I'm seeing around 70C in most games like CS, with my Cinebench R23 all core max temp 84C. Hard to believe for a $30 cooler to be honest. This is in a Corsair 4000D airflow for reference. How much variance are you guys seeing with thermals? I wonder if they changed something or I just got really lucky with binning...

Running this on a B550-F Gaming with 4 sticks/ 32GB of Micron E die ram (3600CL16). Just threw it on DOCP while I was testing and I'll probably just leave it honestly. Cinebench score was surprisingly good for the lower clock speeds, it actually sits at a higher frequency on all core than my 5600X did. Held steady at 4.3Ghz, whereas my 5600X liked to drop to around 4.1 despite much lower thermals (I did not run PBO so I suspect this is because the 5800X3D has a generous power limit and higher efficiency).


----------



## OCmember

That's the second 2208PGS that I've seen. I have one also and the IF seems to be really strong. 1.0000v (minimum value) for 1900 stable


----------



## tcclaviger

Dmand said:


> Is this normal? My last cpu was a Intel 8700k. I am not familiar on how the new ones are supposed to act.
> 
> EDIT. Am I correct in thinking the c state control will fix this behavior?


Not sure, Mine idles at the 36 multiplier, 5950x also idles at 38 multiplier, not sure why. Both draw 0 AMPs at idle and instantly boost up as soon as anything at all is occurring so it doesn't matter much.

I'm also on 2208GPS, yes it's very capable of running low vSOC, CCD and IOD values at or below 1900/3800. It's just less sensitive to heat than the normal Zen 3 chips for all core loads. Similar to the XT line of Zen 2, it pursues all core boost more aggressively than X chips do, in moderate cooling it'll hit the voltage/freq limit before the temperature scaling starts or power limits kick in and only when it keeps climbing after that first couple of speed step reductions will it hit thermal limit and start pulling more.

Like XT chips, it manifests as more consistent speed and more time at max attainable speed, both critical for consistent smooth gaming. It's almost the inverse of X skus which are constantly pursuing downclocking, X3D seems to be constantly looking for any reason to boost to 44.5.


----------



## MrHoof

Balanced mode with power slider on powersaving can drop it to 3ghz but like u said barely a diffrence to 3.6ghz in power usage.








Also i seem to have the oldest batch in here with 2207PGS


----------



## OCmember

MrHoof said:


> Also i seem to have the oldest batch in here with 2207PGS


How does the IF perform in terms of voltage & speed? My 2208 is very nice. I hope I didn't screw anything up by pushing too much vsoc (1.0875v) with 1900. It's currently 1.0000v with DF-State disbled, APBDIS 1, SOC P-States 0, DPM values @ 2 From what I gathered that puts a lot of stress on the IF, correct me if I'm wrong. 

really excited with this chip as my old 5800x could only do 1866


----------



## MrHoof

Currently running 1900fclk with 1.0125v SOC 0.95v IOD 0.9 CCD WHEA free.
DF-State , APBDIS, SOC P-States, DPM values all at default.
Zentimings reads 1.0063V and 1v after Vdroop for soc at auto llc.
Wasnt much tuning needed  Ram settings i could almost 1/1 copy from my 5800x only tWTRS wants 4 compared to 3 before else I get errors fast.


----------



## tcclaviger

Nice. Seems B2 does really help with signalling integrity.

I impulse bought a 6950xt OC Formula today....and canceled it lol. Going to hold out for 7xxx GPUs. As much as I want to play with RDNA2+X3D, it just doesn't make sense to buy a 6950xt when I already have a 3080ti and 7000s are coming later this year.


----------



## MrHoof

Ye looks like its basicly a 6900xt with a bigger cooler a diffrent less locked bios and 3rd 8pin not impressed.


----------



## EastCoast

MrHoof said:


> Ye looks like its basicly a 6900xt with a bigger cooler a diffrent less locked bios and 3rd 8pin not impressed.


Nope
AMD already has specific drivers for it. They fine tuned Sam for the 6950XT in a few games (called *AMD Software Preview Driver May 2022 Release*). Further more it's using an improved Samsung memory ic's. That are guaranteed to overclock between 2350mhz to 2450mhz depending on cooling. That's 250mhz to 350mhz higher then most water-cooled 6900xt xtxh variants.

AMD is sandbagging this ktxh variant. As time goes on we will find out what else they've done. But at a guess it is looking like a revised Uarch. Because the gpu clock speeds are the same as the 6900xt xrxh but provides much better performance then just a 16Gbps to 18Gbps vram improvement. But I digress.

Oh. and the 6950xt seems to work best with a 5800x3d. Go figure.


----------



## MrHoof

Aslong this bug is in the 22. branch I wouldnt install it on my system cause its not flicker but frame drops that cause blackscreens on bad freesync setups.
I always run a Stream on the 2nd monitor while gaming so even if it improves fps by x% its not worth the fps drops while using hardware acceleration, I dont get blackscreens on freesync premium pro monitor but noticeable frame drops compared to 21.11.3.

Display may flicker black during video playback plus gameplay on some AMD Graphics Products such as the Radeon™ RX 6700 XT(or every 6xxx card).
Still waiting for benchmarks with the 5800x3D but i doubt it does Magic but just reducing the cpu bottlekneck.

But enough offtopic


----------



## CCoR

tcclaviger said:


> Nice. Seems B2 does really help with signalling integrity.
> 
> I impulse bought a 6950xt OC Formula today....and canceled it lol. Going to hold out for 7xxx GPUs. As much as I want to play with RDNA2+X3D, it just doesn't make sense to buy a 6950xt when I already have a 3080ti and 7000s are coming later this year.


Whats B2 stand for?


----------



## RedF

CCoR said:


> Whats B2 stand for?











Revison/Stepping 2


----------



## Taraquin

even though ram tuning often doesn't improve avg fps by much on 5800X3D, it can work wonders for min fps


----------



## ilmazzo

If average fps is an .... average of min/max fps in a given time period how could not this improve the average number while increasing the min values?


----------



## tcclaviger

Smaller standard devian from the mean. It spends less time at 99% and less time at 1% so averages remain the same but frame pacing is more consistent providing improved consistency. Pretty much exactly what is observed by most people as smooth game play but doesn't show up well in metrics on charts.

EDIT: I do appreciate everyones input in online reviews, I'm not maliciously attacking jufus but...

I wish jufus would post SotTR 1080 lowest with SMT off as a measuring stick for comparison to determine the efficacy of his OCing. I doubt his x3d setup would crack 370fps.

It's another data point but, IMHO Jufus is, at best, mediocre when tuning Zen chips, advocating for static OCs as the best method, so his AMD CPU results should be viewed as the equivalent of low effort CPU OCing.







In his x3d vs AL video he was allegedly running at 4.7ghz on x3d but covered all info except latency on his Aida ram screenshot. 57.4 ns suggest loose timings for a 4.7 OC or massive clock stretching. 3800C14 for me, returns 56.2ns at 4610 all core speeds. 4112 C15 is 53.2ns. I mention this as, if this is his max tuned setup, it creates doubt as to his actual CPU OC efficacy. Notice he showed zero productivity tests as a result of his OC. R23 should have been 16k. You think he scores 16k....???

He claims cooling issues, but during gaming I never see my CPU over 42c CCD1. Add 20c to eliminate chiller and...62c, not exactly hot. Suggests he's brute forcing stability with too much voltage. I know from testing that is the wrong way to OC x3d and leads to stock level performance as FIT throws the brakes on hard.

Compared to a self proclaimed golden sample 12900k running max tuned DDR 5 7000+ with 32 CL and 4133 C15 on a different 12900k that has great DDR4 IMC.


----------



## hotlookman

What is 2208 number u all talking about ?


----------



## RedF

Produktion Week 2022. My X3D is 2207.


----------



## domdtxdissar

tcclaviger said:


> Smaller standard devian from the mean. It spends less time at 99% and less time at 1% so averages remain the same but frame pacing is more consistent providing improved consistency. Pretty much exactly what is observed by most people as smooth game play but doesn't show up well in metrics on charts.
> 
> EDIT: I do appreciate everyones input in online reviews, I'm not maliciously attacking jufus but...
> 
> I wish jufus would post SotTR 1080 lowest with SMT off as a measuring stick for comparison to determine the efficacy of his OCing. I doubt his x3d setup would crack 370fps.
> 
> It's another data point but, IMHO Jufus is, at best, mediocre when tuning Zen chips, advocating for static OCs as the best method, so his AMD CPU results should be viewed as the equivalent of low effort CPU OCing.
> View attachment 2560237
> 
> In his x3d vs AL video he was allegedly running at 4.7ghz on x3d but covered all info except latency on his Aida ram screenshot. 57.4 ns suggest loose timings for a 4.7 OC or massive clock stretching. 3800C14 for me, returns 56.2ns at 4610 all core speeds. 4112 C15 is 53.2ns. I mention this as, if this is his max tuned setup, it creates doubt as to his actual CPU OC efficacy. Notice he showed zero productivity tests as a result of his OC. R23 should have been 16k. You think he scores 16k....???
> 
> He claims cooling issues, but during gaming I never see my CPU over 42c CCD1. Add 20c to eliminate chiller and...62c, not exactly hot. Suggests he's brute forcing stability with too much voltage. I know from testing that is the wrong way to OC x3d and leads to stock level performance as FIT throws the brakes on hard.
> 
> Compared to a self proclaimed golden sample 12900k running max tuned DDR 5 7000+ with 32 CL and 4133 C15 on a different 12900k that has great DDR4 IMC.


He dont know how to tune Zen3 with or without v-cache.

All his numbers 5800x3d numbers seems too low. His "max clocked" 5800x3d @ "4.7ghz" is scoring lower than my 5800x3d @ stock 4550mhz in gamebenchmarks and why does he hide everything in aida here ? Dont make sense to me.








(i'm getting down to 55.4ns @ 1900:3800 with cpu at 4550mhz without any L2 prefetch shenanigans btw)








Guess i could do some more benchmarks in riftbreaker for a easy comparison but what's the point..


----------



## EastCoast

@tcclaviger @domdtxdissar
I stopped watching him a long time ago. And his videos are not well received at other fourms when posted by randoms. He gets a lot of criticism. So you are not the only one.


----------



## bloot

RedF said:


> Produktion Week 2022. My X3D is 2207.


Same batch here. Mine goes down to 2880MHz at stock balanced windows 10 power plan, but most of the time sits at ~3600MHz on idle or low load


----------



## EniGma1987

ilmazzo said:


> If average fps is an .... average of min/max fps in a given time period how could not this improve the average number while increasing the min values?


Because the min's people use in graphs are just 1% of frames or sometimes 0.1% of frames. It is the lowest drops/stutters in the game, but it makes up very little of the actual frames.

If you have ever been playing a game and most of the time it goes along fine and smooth and then suddenly you notice a single hiccup in the smoothness, that is what those minimums in the graph are.


----------



## ilmazzo

I know what a min fps graph is  I was just poniting out to the "even though ram tuning often doesn't improve avg fps by much on 5800X3D, it can work wonders for min fps " statement that sounded wierd

while this explanation maybe on point "Smaller standard devian from the mean. It spends less time at 99% and less time at 1% so averages remain the same but frame pacing is more consistent providing improved consistency. Pretty much exactly what is observed by most people as smooth game play but doesn't show up well in metrics on charts. " but even here, why it should be reduced its "time (fps level) at 99%" when having a quicker IF and RAM? Unstable overclock?


----------



## Taraquin

tcclaviger said:


> Smaller standard devian from the mean. It spends less time at 99% and less time at 1% so averages remain the same but frame pacing is more consistent providing improved consistency. Pretty much exactly what is observed by most people as smooth game play but doesn't show up well in metrics on charts.
> 
> EDIT: I do appreciate everyones input in online reviews, I'm not maliciously attacking jufus but...
> 
> I wish jufus would post SotTR 1080 lowest with SMT off as a measuring stick for comparison to determine the efficacy of his OCing. I doubt his x3d setup would crack 370fps.
> 
> It's another data point but, IMHO Jufus is, at best, mediocre when tuning Zen chips, advocating for static OCs as the best method, so his AMD CPU results should be viewed as the equivalent of low effort CPU OCing.
> View attachment 2560237
> 
> In his x3d vs AL video he was allegedly running at 4.7ghz on x3d but covered all info except latency on his Aida ram screenshot. 57.4 ns suggest loose timings for a 4.7 OC or massive clock stretching. 3800C14 for me, returns 56.2ns at 4610 all core speeds. 4112 C15 is 53.2ns. I mention this as, if this is his max tuned setup, it creates doubt as to his actual CPU OC efficacy. Notice he showed zero productivity tests as a result of his OC. R23 should have been 16k. You think he scores 16k....???
> 
> He claims cooling issues, but during gaming I never see my CPU over 42c CCD1. Add 20c to eliminate chiller and...62c, not exactly hot. Suggests he's brute forcing stability with too much voltage. I know from testing that is the wrong way to OC x3d and leads to stock level performance as FIT throws the brakes on hard.
> 
> Compared to a self proclaimed golden sample 12900k running max tuned DDR 5 7000+ with 32 CL and 4133 C15 on a different 12900k that has great DDR4 IMC.


I agree his tuning is avg at best, but his point on ramtuning making some games run smoother with much higher lows after ram tuning stands. I don't think he's right about pbo+co being inferior to static clocks.


----------



## Dmand

Thanks everyone.
Those idle clocks were really bothering me for some reason. Coming from a 8700k and not much experiance on what normal is for this new cpu...well thank you.


----------



## BHS1975

Is there anyway to get the batch# without taking the cooler off?


----------



## bloot

BHS1975 said:


> Is there anyway to get the batch# without taking the cooler off?


Nope.


----------



## tcclaviger

ilmazzo said:


> I know what a min fps graph is  I was just poniting out to the "even though ram tuning often doesn't improve avg fps by much on 5800X3D, it can work wonders for min fps " statement that sounded wierd
> 
> while this explanation maybe on point "Smaller standard devian from the mean. It spends less time at 99% and less time at 1% so averages remain the same but frame pacing is more consistent providing improved consistency. Pretty much exactly what is observed by most people as smooth game play but doesn't show up well in metrics on charts. " but even here, why it should be reduced its "time (fps level) at 99%" when having a quicker IF and RAM? Unstable overclock?


I suspect that's exactly why, yes. With my own experimentation, I've found X3D is highly sensitive to voltage, too much or too little, and performance tanks, but not universally across benchmarks. Different from Zen 3 X, mostly because of the FIT cap of 1.3 resulting in a drastically narrowed window of "ideal" according to FIT.

Don't gete wrong, Jufus does some testing other channels simply don't, so I value him as another information resource. The reality is he simply doesn't invest the time to test a huge number of configurations and find which provides the best balanced performance. I don't even fault him for that, he readily admits to breng a gamer first Overclocker second.

I've learned my early testing, all the Hwbot scores from April had garbage efficiency due to clock stretching, however beating them still isn't easy. 162xx CB23 16 thread for example and 1597 single thread. I have a number of bios profiles saved that should match that, yet they do not due to voltage mismatch issues Ive not yet 100% resolved. It takes way more finesse to OC X3D with max efficiency than X CPUs imho when surpassing 4650 all core boost


----------



## Dmand

I still think something seems off with my 5800x3d.
Maybe I am just paranoid something is messed up. Even while gaming or benching the cores will not stay at max frequency.

How about everyone elxe? Do your clockspeeds bounce up and down like this under heavy load with thermals in check. While gaming and benching it does not go over 75c. Here is a picture of MSI afterburner. The bios is at default accept the Ram OC. I am using the beta bios for 1207. It acted the same in the old bios 1206b

As you can see, it bounces between 3.6 GHz and 4.45 /4.5. 
Using max 85w


----------



## Taraquin

tcclaviger said:


> I suspect that's exactly why, yes. With my own experimentation, I've found X3D is highly sensitive to voltage, too much or too little, and performance tanks, but not universally across benchmarks. Different from Zen 3 X, mostly because of the FIT cap of 1.3 resulting in a drastically narrowed window of "ideal" according to FIT.
> 
> Don't gete wrong, Jufus does some testing other channels simply don't, so I value him as another information resource. The reality is he simply doesn't invest the time to test a huge number of configurations and find which provides the best balanced performance. I don't even fault him for that, he readily admits to breng a gamer first Overclocker second.
> 
> I've learned my early testing, all the Hwbot scores from April had garbage efficiency due to clock stretching, however beating them still isn't easy. 162xx CB23 16 thread for example and 1597 single thread. I have a number of bios profiles saved that should match that, yet they do not due to voltage mismatch issues Ive not yet 100% resolved. It takes way more finesse to OC X3D with max efficiency than X CPUs imho when surpassing 4650 all core boost


I wait for i2hard to do their 5800X3D-test, they usually tweak close to the edge and tune Zen better than Jufes.


----------



## Voltage45

Use "the tool" or PBO2 Tuner to set CO curve verified with Corecycler AVX2 test.
what tool?

found it(13th message on first page) but can't download.i couldn't saw curve in bios anyway.i think cos 1.2.0.7 beta bios.


----------



## ice445

Dmand said:


> I still think something seems off with my 5800x3d.
> Maybe I am just paranoid something is messed up. Even while gaming or benching the cores will not stay at max frequency.
> 
> How about everyone elxe? Do your clockspeeds bounce up and down like this under heavy load with thermals in check. While gaming and benching it does not go over 75c. Here is a picture of MSI afterburner. The bios is at default accept the Ram OC. I am using the beta bios for 1207. It acted the same in the old bios 1206b
> 
> As you can see, it bounces between 3.6 GHz and 4.45 /4.5.
> Using max 85w
> 
> View attachment 2560300


Yeah, that's not right. I didn't see any reductions in clock speed when I ran Cinebench R23, and my reported PPT peaked around 123W. Maybe a motherboard setting that needs tweaking? A lot of motherboards have some sort of "performance booster" that's usually active by default that in my experience messes things up.


----------



## Sparrow1408

I was bothered that my board wouldn't hit that 45.5x Multiplier so I flashed the 16B BIOS back on the board. It now boosts as expected. Out of curiosity I wanted to see if I could get 2000 1:1:1 stable and...

It runs Prime 95... It runs BOINC...

It just spits out WHEA errors at regular ticks. VSOC 1100mv - VDDP 920mv, VDDG CCD 950mv, VDDG IOD 980mv

When I tried to change VDDG IOD to 1050mv it spit out WHEA errors faster. When I tried to drop the voltage to 950mv it booted into a BSOD...

PLL is already at 1.964

So it's stable but not stable?

Edit: Ram is just at XMP to test for FLCK stability.


----------



## OCmember

@Sparrow1408 You need to look at Event Viewer and create a custom view for WHEA errors

Update on my chip. I got another WHEA error last night 05/11. That's 10 days after my first one on May 1st, and that's ~20 days after installing the chip. Seems like it throws a WHEA error every 10 days. That's only 2 since I installed the chip and have been running it at 1900:3800. Tested 1933, threw a bunch of errors so it seems 1900 is at the edge just before stability.

EDIT: I guess I got my 1900:3800 Club card revoked

Odd thing is I can't reproduce any WHEA errors while running OCCT, y-cruncher, TM5


----------



## RedF

Try 1,13 VSOC


----------



## OCmember

Turns out the reason I couldn't boot at 1866:3733 with manual PCB rev timing suggestions from Ryzen Calculator was the tCWL was a mis-match with CL. tCWL was suggested to be 12 while CL could only boot at 14. From what I gathered tCWL has to be = to or > CL If this is incorrect let me know. Sorry for off-topic


----------



## MrHoof

tcwl is also dependend on trdwr its kinda a tradeoff but mostly its worth rather to run it 1:1 with CL and reduce trdwr as much as possible.


----------



## BHS1975

Does HWinfo64 catch all the WHEAs?


----------



## OCmember

BHS1975 said:


> Does HWinfo64 catch all the WHEAs?


Good question. I always assumed it did but I always relied on Event Viewer as it's a windows tool. The errors I caught were not when I was running OCCT, y-cruncher, nor TM5. Oddly they were 10 days apart. Each of them. And Event Viewer will always catches them no matter what. I would assume HWinfo would need to be running to catch them.


----------



## BHS1975

OCmember said:


> Good question. I always assumed it did but I always relied on Event Viewer as it's a windows tool. The errors I caught were not when I was running OCCT, y-cruncher, nor TM5. Oddly they were 10 days apart. Each of them. And Event Viewer will always catches them no matter what. I would assume HWinfo would need to be running to catch them.


I run HWinfo64 all the time and haven't noticed any yet at 1866 fclk.


----------



## rluker5

Dmand said:


> Thanks everyone.
> Those idle clocks were really bothering me for some reason. Coming from a 8700k and not much experiance on what normal is for this new cpu...well thank you.
> 
> View attachment 2560249
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2560250


I know this is a bit late, but maybe some of these extra Windows power plan settings I put in another post might tune your cpu's behavior in a way you want. I really don't know as my last AMD cpu was a Phenom  Not every setting seems to do something for me, and different stuff might work for you, but having a custom power plan that you can click active that does something you like -sometimes- is convenient.
Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion | Page 281 | Overclock.net


----------



## OCmember

BHS1975 said:


> I run HWinfo64 all the time and haven't noticed any yet at 1866 fclk.


If you use it solely to look for WHEA errors you could just open Event Viewer anytime you want without using an app that polls the system. I assume you use it for other things though, right?


----------



## Blameless

Got my second ASRock B550 Phantom Gaming ITX/ax and dropped my 5800X into it, then saved a pair of overclock profiles, one with an auto offset, the other with a -5mV core voltage offset:



Spoiler















So, for anyone with a similar ASRock board, who cares, who hasn't figured this out for themselves yet, and wants to set a voltage offset on their 5800X3D, all you need to do is save your current profile to disk, open it in a hex editor, browse to 20E and set hex "1" for offset, then got to 211 and set whatever negative voltage offset you like, counting down from FF FF 1 00 00. Be mindful that it's all little endian (so -5mV is FB FF not FFFB).

Testing my sample now to see how much of a negative offset I can apply at -30 all-core CO before hitting instability or observing clock stretching.


----------



## BHS1975

OCmember said:


> If you use it solely to look for WHEA errors you could just open Event Viewer anytime you want without using an app that polls the system. I assume you use it for other things though, right?


Yeah I use it with afterburner for the overlay while gaming.


----------



## rdr09

If the price of this cpu is $400, there is no doubt it will be the No. 1 selling cpu in AMZ not the Ryzen5 5600X.


----------



## Voltage45

i don't like asus strix-e x570's 1.2.0.7 beta bios cos 3d is 3.4/4.5 but mb runs at 3.6/4450 and boost never stop at desktop and cause heat.it's like bug that 3000 series causes 60 degree idle.need another ABBA fix to this.there is no pbo2 in 1.2.0.7 beta bios or ryzen master in windows.


----------



## OCmember

Does the 1.2.0.7 get rid of the fTMP and PSP causing system stutter?


----------



## Voltage45

OCmember said:


> Does the 1.2.0.7 get rid of the fTMP and PSP causing system stutter?


yes i have no stutter experience with 1.2.0.7 beta.


----------



## Blameless

Negative voltage offsets work as expected on my ASRock board when applied via an edited profile. So far, no clock stretching or instability with -10mV set, but boost clock and performance under heavy load is reduced. Will probably need to switch to per-core COs to make any negative offset worth while.


----------



## Horigo

Hello,
Wich aircooling (with leds) do you recommend for 5800X3D with negative offset ?


----------



## OCmember

How do you identify clock stretching?

Also, I've been testing CPPC enabled in bios and observing ST behavior with CBR20 + Ryzen Master. My 'Preferred Cores' are C 01 - Fastest core, C 02 - Second Fastest Core (using Natural Numbers). I have not changed any power settings like Heterogeneous Thread Scheduling Policy or anything at all. If my observation method is wrong let me know but I am not seeing the single thread sticking to the Preferred Cores. Is this normal thread scheduling behavior for 3D? I've also added CPPC Preferred cores to CPPC enabled and i get the same behavior.


----------



## Blameless

OCmember said:


> How do you identify clock stretching?


Typically I look at actual vs. effective clocks in HWiNFO; they should be nearly identical under load. I also verify with benchmarks...a loss of performance without a loss of actual clock speed is likely clock stretching.


----------



## ice445

Does anyone else have elden ring refusing to launch if you disable CPPC preferred cores in BIOS?


----------



## Mask

Still haven't seen 4550 MHz on 1 or 2 cores using HWiNFO with 50 ms polling rate. 4450 MHz reported max. Did see around 4470 ish MHz reported inside Ryzen Master a few times. On AGESA 1.2.0.6c, latest version for my board. 

With -20 to -30 mV offset all cores, this thing runs at such a low temperature and voltage though.


----------



## TrigrH

This is the best I could do with my Rev.B


----------



## Sparrow1408

Sparrow1408 said:


> I tried increasing VCore SOC up to 1.25V and VDDP18 up to 2.0V
> 
> I believe the WHEA errors are caused by the AMD Boost/Voltage algorithm as the Prime95 threads themselves aren't failing with the WHEA errors but I also didn't let the software run for an hour+ because it's not stable; Eventually they may error but letting it run to find out wasn't a priority. Since the machine is not Prime95 stable at 1933 I didn't bother to much with 1967 or 2000 FLCK.
> 
> @1967 1:1:1 Memory WAS verified at boot with XMP toggled on "just because" but if it throws WHEA errors in windows then that information doesn't mean much.
> 
> Will mess with it more when a new BIOS is released.


Gigabyte just release AGESA 1.2.0.7 with BIOS 16d

2100 1:1:1 now Boots... it's not stable but it leads me to believe that the issue with stability at 2000 is BIOS related.

1900 is still stable. 1933/1967/2000 still give WHEA errors with Prime95 :/

Edit: Also the new BIOS seems to decrease performance slightly, but IDK how noticable 598 average CPU-Z Single core score is to 602. Would take that all day if it meant greater system stability.


----------



## Voltage45

TrigrH said:


> This is the best I could do with my Rev.B


my xmp now










and my old 5600x everything same










and new chipset driver.nope.


----------



## marashz

I don't know why, but my latency seems a bit high. That's with all apps closed. Not clean OS install, also after swapping 3900X to 5800X3D did nothing (except new chipset driveris). Can it be the reason? My best result:

















=== EDIT ===

Just noticed, Aida was done with tRAS 28, unstable. With tRAS 32 best latency was 63.4 ns.


----------



## blu3dragon

Read the first post ;-)
X3d adds about 4ns latency due to the larger cache. This is normal, but the trade off is more than worth it.


----------



## hotlookman

Hi guys , just got mine 2209 processor . Will be able to install it only by the end of week . How about 2209? Is it good party number or bad regarding vsoc... and all that .


----------



## OCmember

Installed the latest bios F36c Agesa V2 1207 for my gaming rig board and am back at 1900 IF to see how stable it runs. I'm not seeing any bad system stutter from fTPM & PSP while gaming.


----------



## nonamed

ice445 said:


> So I just got mine, batch # is 2208PGS. So far I'm really impressed. I came from a 5600X so I wasn't expecting anything massive, but in CS:GO, a game I play often, I went from having great FPS with the occasional dip into the 200's, to literally 399FPS constant. It actually sits on the cap the entire time during a competitive 5V5 match. Insane.
> 
> Temps wise I'm even more surprised, I'm using my old DeepCool Gammaxx 400V2 while I wait for my Arctic Freezer II 240 to show up, and I'm seeing around 70C in most games like CS, with my Cinebench R23 all core max temp 84C. Hard to believe for a $30 cooler to be honest. This is in a Corsair 4000D airflow for reference. How much variance are you guys seeing with thermals? I wonder if they changed something or I just got really lucky with binning...
> 
> Running this on a B550-F Gaming with 4 sticks/ 32GB of Micron E die ram (3600CL16). Just threw it on DOCP while I was testing and I'll probably just leave it honestly. Cinebench score was surprisingly good for the lower clock speeds, it actually sits at a higher frequency on all core than my 5600X did. Held steady at 4.3Ghz, whereas my 5600X liked to drop to around 4.1 despite much lower thermals (I did not run PBO so I suspect this is because the 5800X3D has a generous power limit and higher efficiency).


On what res are You playin CS?


----------



## tcclaviger

hotlookman said:


> Hi guys , just got mine 2209 processor . Will be able to install it only by the end of week . How about 2209? Is it good party number or bad regarding vsoc... and all that .


Honestly, we don't really know yet. Sample size is fairly small, I doubt there's a meaningful difference between any week of the first batch (2209 should be first batch still) as long as they're PGS. B2 stepping seems to be pretty universally an improvement.

Back from NYC vacation, had an awesome view from my room and no PC for about a week:


----------



## ice445

nonamed said:


> On what res are You playin CS?


1440P, max settings with 8XMSAA


----------



## Mask

Using the Ryzen Balanced LowPower v8 power plan on this thread: Ryzen Custom Power Plans for Windows 10 (Balanced and...
was able to get my CPU to boost to 4550 MHz single core. Hope this helps anyone who couldn't see their 5800X3D boost past 4450 MHz.


----------



## tcclaviger

Interesting I'll have a look, very curious what makes that necessary.


----------



## Mask

tcclaviger said:


> Interesting I'll have a look, very curious what makes that necessary.


I didn't try Ryzen Ultimate Performance or Ryzen Snappy, those might also work. I am curious as well. Before this, I used balanced power plan. I tried high performance a couple times to see if that would help get to 4550 as well.


----------



## TrigrH

Mask said:


> Using the Ryzen Balanced LowPower v8 power plan on this thread: Ryzen Custom Power Plans for Windows 10 (Balanced and...
> was able to get my CPU to boost to 4550 MHz single core. Hope this helps anyone who couldn't see their 5800X3D boost past 4450 MHz.





tcclaviger said:


> Interesting I'll have a look, very curious what makes that necessary.


I'm not seeing this behavior on my MSI board.


----------



## ossimc

So I switched from 5900X (PBO curve tuned ~4.8ghz in games) to X3D. 

In CoD warzone I experience an overall smoother gameplay in terms of frametimes(not much of a gain in averages though). No more hickups like with 5900x(altought they were rare) which I blame the 2 CCDs Design for.

BUT I'm unhappy how my mouse movement feels with the X3D. It's not as snappy or fast as with the 5900X. Is this due to the lag of almost 400Mhz or the added latency because the bigger cache (or both). Do I have to assume i got higher inputlag now? I wouldn't mind for any other game but for fast pace online shooter it's not ideal :-/


----------



## RedF

Could not notice anything detrimental with the mouse so far. I also play WZ.

Don't think you can feel the +4ns memory latency.

Maybe there is some software involved?


----------



## ossimc

No that's the thing. I didn't change anything besides flashing a new bios to get the 3D running( didn't even updated the Chipset drivers cuz I wanted to do apples to apples benchmark comparisons). Same stable RAM oc (which I tested again with the 3D)

I did encounter same experience with my 5900X running with allcore OC(4.6ghz) instead of PBO. PBO was noticable snappier in mouse feel.

And I know I'm not "seeing" things. When u play a game so much u get the kind of muscle memory to notice slight changes instantly


----------



## OCmember

@ossimc it's the bios. AGESA 1206 b for my board to 1207 felt like I lost a little responsiveness in a specific game.


----------



## RedF

OK im still on 1.2.0.6c


----------



## ossimc

OCmember said:


> @ossimc it's the bios. AGESA 1206 b for my board to 1207 felt like I lost a little responsiveness in a specific game.


Interesting. Well then I think have to wait for ASUS to get going. If they don't release the new agesas for their most expensive x470 Board this will be my last Asus.

Also I only get 615 points in cpuZ single if I'm lucky. Seems low


----------



## Sparrow1408

ossimc said:


> No that's the thing. I didn't change anything besides flashing a new bios to get the 3D running( didn't even updated the Chipset drivers cuz I wanted to do apples to apples benchmark comparisons). Same stable RAM oc (which I tested again with the 3D)
> 
> I did encounter same experience with my 5900X running with allcore OC(4.6ghz) instead of PBO. PBO was noticable snappier in mouse feel.
> 
> And I know I'm not "seeing" things. When u play a game so much u get the kind of muscle memory to notice slight changes instantly





OCmember said:


> @ossimc it's the bios. AGESA 1206 b for my board to 1207 felt like I lost a little responsiveness in a specific game.


Can confirm that my CPU-Z, Cinebench, and other benchmarks where slightly less when I moved from the 1206B to 1207 AGESA BIOS but I still beat all my 3D Mark scores. It was only by a few points, it it could have been margin of error, but CS:GO, Ashes of the singularity, Control, and Resident Evil 5 all ran smooth when I was testing real world game play.

Maybe the voltage is wrong on the bus lanes? Granted I have a low-end, trash tier, Logitech mouse/keyboard so _my_ definition of responsiveness may not be yours.


----------



## RedF

Try a different USB port. If this is not yet the case, try one that is directly connected to the CPU.


----------



## OCmember

@ossimc just a heads up, Gigabyte has been real slow with updating their most expensive X570 board for years now


----------



## ossimc

Well gigabyte is a special case in general^^

Ok I also didn't change my USB port for the mouse. Anywho...how to figure out which is directly connected to the CPU? Reading the manual...i figure


----------



## OCmember

@ossimc you can look for a Block Diagram for your specific board that might tell you. On both my boards the CPU AMD eXtensible host controller is the double digit PCI bus. Use USB Tree View to find out. On my Dark Hero it's PCI bus 11, device 0, function 3, on my Xtreme it's PCI bus 14, device 0, function 3. The single digit PCI bus # are usually the same number and are through the I/O hub e.g. PCI bus 6, device 0, function 3, & PCI bus 6, device 0, function 1



USB Device Tree Viewer


----------



## Nighthog

ossimc said:


> Well gigabyte is a special case in general^^
> 
> Ok I also didn't change my USB port for the mouse. Anywho...how to figure out which is directly connected to the CPU? Reading the manual...i figure


Try SoC voltage, VDDP voltage or VDDG_IOD voltage. These and RTT & procODT settings for memory I've seen on occasion effect Mouse responsiveness for some reason. Like it's effecting the polling rate or something.


----------



## Blameless

ossimc said:


> So I switched from 5900X (PBO curve tuned ~4.8ghz in games) to X3D.
> 
> In CoD warzone I experience an overall smoother gameplay in terms of frametimes(not much of a gain in averages though). No more hickups like with 5900x(altought they were rare) which I blame the 2 CCDs Design for.
> 
> BUT I'm unhappy how my mouse movement feels with the X3D. It's not as snappy or fast as with the 5900X. Is this due to the lag of almost 400Mhz or the added latency because the bigger cache (or both). Do I have to assume i got higher inputlag now? I wouldn't mind for any other game but for fast pace online shooter it's not ideal :-/


A small reduction in clocks speed and increase in cache/memory latency shouldn't change input latency itself. Polling a mouse shouldn't be taking millions of clock cycles, but even a 2000Hz polling rate leaves 2.25 million CPU clock cycles (at 4.45GHz) per Hz.

Better frame rates and higher GPU utilization could be responsible, as the render queues will be completely filled more often. This is what causes better perceived responsiveness when some games are CPU limited, rather than GPU limited. Games that may only have been able to regularly queue one or two frames before might be queuing the full three now. If the effect isn't placebo, you may be able to remedy it by turning on the low latency mode in the graphics driver, if it's not already enabled.



ossimc said:


> Anywho...how to figure out which is directly connected to the CPU? Reading the manual...i figure


This still shouldn't be responsible for any perceptible level of latency, even if your the most sensitive high-fps gamer on the planet--unless something is very wrong with the board/system--but if you want to check you should be able to figure it out with device manager.

Browse devices by connection and find the AMD USB 3.10 eXtensible Host Controller your mouse is connected to, then go to it's properties. Under details -> PCI max link width will be listed as 4 if it's connected to the chipset, or 10 (it's in hex) if it's connected to the CPU. Note, this doesn't work with the NVMe controllers as the lanes are split differently at the CPU.


----------



## tcclaviger

I also went back to 1206b instead of 1207.

For most things the change was imperceptible, but on the outer edge cases, 1206b does run faster. These are fractions of a second differences for me in synthetics though.

Regarding mouese lag, blameless is spot on as usual, the x3d changes around system behavior slightly and others have noted lower GPU OCs as a result of the small increase in GPU workload.

It could also be the rework of USB to fix drop out somehow manifesting as input lag. Suggest playing with CCD/IOD/PLL see if you can find a sweet spot. Some things like CPPC Preferred disabled may help.


----------



## telekinetic73

Hello ppl,

i need help or advice.

Few days ago i bought 5800x3d and when i try to test it with cinebench r23 it wont boost over 3599 mhz. Temps are around 70 C. Bench with CPU Z also wont boost 3599 mhz.

In games it boosts normally, highest clock which i saw was 4574 mhz.

My specs:
MSI x570s tomahawk
5800x3d
NH d15
RX6900 XT phantom gaming
Crosair RMx 1000, Fractal Torrent, 970 evo 2TB

I updated BIOS to the latest on my motherboard page:

AMI BIOS7D54v122022-03-2518.70 MB

Description:
- Update to AMD ComboAm4v2PI 1.2.0.6c - Support AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D
 - Support AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D


----------



## Catscratch

telekinetic73 said:


> Hello ppl,
> 
> i need help or advice.
> 
> Few days ago i bought 5800x3d and when i try to test it with cinebench r23 it wont boost over 3599 mhz. Temps are around 70 C. Bench with CPU Z also wont boost 3599 mhz.
> 
> In games it boosts normally, highest clock which i saw was 4574 mhz.
> 
> My specs:
> MSI x570s tomahawk
> 5800x3d
> NH d15
> RX6900 XT phantom gaming
> Crosair RMx 1000, Fractal Torrent, 970 evo 2TB
> 
> I updated BIOS to the latest on my motherboard page:
> 
> AMI BIOS7D54v122022-03-2518.70 MB
> 
> Description:
> - Update to AMD ComboAm4v2PI 1.2.0.6c - Support AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D
> - Support AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D


All core boosts (benchmarks) and game boosts are different. Games will cause 1 or 2 cores to boost to max clocks. Benchmarks will cause all cores to boost according to cpu limits(power, temps) However 3600 is a low all core boost. It should be close to 4ghz with 70c. Which app are you using to observe the clocks ?


----------



## Voltage45

Windows 10's power saving plan is 1.7 ghz on idle. Turbo off, auto 2666 mhz 33 degree celcius on idle with h150i.24.5 degree C ambient.

Gta5 2k ultra, night, msi afterburner bench, 2080s stock, driver default.

*5600x stock 4650 mhz, 3600 cl16 xmp*

08-05-2022, 21:49:13 GTA5.exe benchmark completed, 27243 frames rendered in 356.031 s
Average framerate : 76.5 FPS
Minimum framerate : 52.2 FPS
Maximum framerate : 112.0 FPS
1% low framerate : 50.6 FPS
0.1% low framerate : 45.7 FPS

*5800x3d stock* 76 degree C

12-05-2022, 22:07:29 GTA5.exe benchmark completed, 30528 frames rendered in 382.796 s
Average framerate : 79.7 FPS
Minimum framerate : 51.8 FPS
Maximum framerate : 112.1 FPS
1% low framerate : 52.5 FPS
0.1% low framerate : 46.5 FPS

*5800x3d turbo off, 2666 mhz auto, power saving 3.4ghz* 50 degree C

15-05-2022, 18:17:41 GTA5.exe benchmark completed, 25888 frames rendered in 339.047 s
Average framerate : 76.3 FPS
Minimum framerate : 50.3 FPS
Maximum framerate : 111.5 FPS
1% low framerate : 49.3 FPS
0.1% low framerate : 42.9 FPS

Even stock using this cpu is pointless cos this gpu. I need 4080.


----------



## telekinetic73

cpuid hwmonitor


----------



## telekinetic73

Catscratch said:


> All core boosts (benchmarks) and game boosts are different. Games will cause 1 or 2 cores to boost to max clocks. Benchmarks will cause all cores to boost according to cpu limits(power, temps) However 3600 is a low all core boost. It should be close to 4ghz with 70c. Which app are you using to observe the clocks ?


CPUID HW monitor


----------



## Luggage

telekinetic73 said:


> CPUID HW monitor


No!
Use HWinfo64.

HWMonitor doesn’t work any good with AMD


----------



## Catscratch

telekinetic73 said:


> CPUID HW monitor





Luggage said:


> No!
> Use HWinfo64.
> 
> HWMonitor doesn’t work any good with AMD


To be honest, nothing will come close to Amd's own Ryzen Master for the real values. However that app is also dangerous. If you wanna check the clocks click the CCD shown in the picture. Stay in home view if you are a newbie  Do not change any values or click apply etc  Btw even HWinfo64 shows my 5700x idle clocks as 3600mhz which is supposed to be 3400mhz. Monitoring clocks became really hard for apps with ryzen :/


----------



## telekinetic73

Catscratch said:


> To be honest, nothing will come close to Amd's own Ryzen Master for the real values. However that app is also dangerous. If you wanna check the clocks click the CCD shown in the picture. Stay in home view if you are a newbie  Do not change any values or click apply etc  Btw even HWinfo64 shows my 5700x idle clocks as 3600mhz which is supposed to be 3400mhz. Monitoring clocks became really hard for apps with ryzen :/
> 
> View attachment 2560737


 Here is screenshot, Valorant open in background


http://imgur.com/lZXVrnl


----------



## Luggage

telekinetic73 said:


> Here is screenshot, Valorant open in background
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/lZXVrnl


----------



## tcclaviger

Tested out the Ryzen Balanced power plan. No discernable difference for me from the default High Performance plan other than what is displayed during idle.

I say what is displayed because it reports a lower clock rate, but that's just the clock limit imposed by windows since, as we all know, windows cannot poll sleeping Zen cores without waking them and reports only "last known" telemetry. Both plans idle at 0 amp draw, one reports 34x (3495mhz) idle high performance reports 36x (3700mhz) but they use the same amount of electricity.

I guess the boost behavior improvement will only be found on systems with power plans that were not ideal to begin with. They boost identically for me switching between plans. If you're not seeing over 45x hit in single core boost it's worth a shot to see if it fixes it.

PS: Ryzen Master isn't direct polling most of the time either, it's less accurate than hwinfo when snapshot polling mode is disabled. It also makes bios changes without being authorized or user prompted to do so. RM is a non-malicious virus imho.


----------



## RBLXXXVI

I've just upgraded from 1600x to 5800X3D+X570-E. I'm completely out of touch with current bios settings other than DOCP. I've read through the first 8 pages so far for BIOS tuning nuggets and I'll read the rest now. In the meantime, what can I safely change to optimise in Asus Bios? Any window settings I should be looking at? Bugs that I can avoid (Someone mentioned turning off TPM on page 6 ish) thanks, yes I am an X570 nub! Please send help! I'll be happy with just basic settings at this point. It is running stable as is, gamed a full TBC Sunwell tonight with no problems. Also I'm running a Vega 64 with it. IDK if I should bother with the Direct Ram now I've upgraded everything.


----------



## hotlookman

And what about curve optimizer in ryzen master for 5800x3d . What happens if u choose just default ( no oc ) and all cores (or per core) optimisation on auto ? Does it helps to get offset cores ?
Ps asking this because curve optimizer helped mine 5600x B0 to go +200 single core mhz and -20 all cores offset . Basically it gets me more mhz with less vsoc and etc.


----------



## blu3dragon

ice445 said:


> Does anyone else have elden ring refusing to launch if you disable CPPC preferred cores in BIOS?


Just loaded up a save game to test. No problem here.
I have:

AMD CBS > NBIO > SMU > CPPC Enabled
AMD CBS > NBIO > SMU > CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled
Curve offsets set via PBO2 Tuner
AGESA 1207
ASUS B550-F


----------



## blu3dragon

hotlookman said:


> And what about curve optimizer in ryzen master for 5800x3d . What happens if u choose just default ( no oc ) and all cores (or per core) optimisation on auto ? Does it helps to get offset cores ?
> Ps asking this because curve optimizer helped mine 5600x B0 to go +200 single core mhz and -20 all cores offset . Basically it gets me more mhz with less vsoc and etc.


It works well, but not officially enabled or visible in bios. You need to edit your bios profile or use PBO2 tuner.


----------



## blu3dragon

RBLXXXVI said:


> I've just upgraded from 1600x to 5800X3D+X570-E. I'm completely out of touch with current bios settings other than DOCP. I've read through the first 8 pages so far for BIOS tuning nuggets and I'll read the rest now. In the meantime, what can I safely change to optimise in Asus Bios? Any window settings I should be looking at? Bugs that I can avoid (Someone mentioned turning off TPM on page 6 ish) thanks, yes I am an X570 nub! Please send help! I'll be happy with just basic settings at this point. It is running stable as is, gamed a full TBC Sunwell tonight with no problems. Also I'm running a Vega 64 with it. IDK if I should bother with the Direct Ram now I've upgraded everything.


First post has a good summary.
Disable TPM if you don't need it. If you need it, then you probably should be on the latest bios with AGESA 1207.
Other than that, disable CPPC preferred cores:

AMD CBS > NBIO > SMU > CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled
If you want to OC, start by tuning curve offsets (via PBO2 Tuner and testing with Core Cycler). That gives some gains in multicore and lowers temps.
After that you can manually tune memory, but the gains are not as much with the x3d due to the large cache offsetting memory performance.
For a more extreme OC you can start to raise BCLK. But that is not really suitable for a daily system IMO.


----------



## RBLXXXVI

blu3dragon said:


> First post has a good summary.
> Disable TPM if you don't need it. If you need it, then you probably should be on the latest bios with AGESA 1207.
> Other than that, disable CPPC preferred cores:
> 
> AMD CBS > NBIO > SMU > CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled
> If you want to OC, start by tuning curve offsets (via PBO2 Tuner and testing with Core Cycler). That gives some gains in multicore and lowers temps.
> After that you can manually tune memory, but the gains are not as much with the x3d due to the large cache offsetting memory performance.
> For a more extreme OC you can start to raise BCLK. But that is not really suitable for a daily system IMO.


Ok thanks, I'll make the CPPC changes and I'll look at PBO2 tuner, I guess PBO tuner allows you to set an offset and potentially boost higher right? I've never had a MB with TPM before and I've no idea how it works or if it's safe with a 5800X3D, so I will turn it off, unless I do need it for something? I won't touch BLCK tuning, though it does remind me of how we used to overclock using the FSB way back when. (from what I've read so far)


----------



## spcysls

I've been playing around with PBO2 for the first time on the X3d and I'm dropping the curve more on the cores that boost highest, is this the correct approach?


----------



## tcclaviger

RBLXXXVI said:


> Ok thanks, I'll make the CPPC changes and I'll look at PBO2 tuner, I guess PBO tuner allows you to set an offset and potentially boost higher right? I've never had a MB with TPM before and I've no idea how it works or if it's safe with a 5800X3D, so I will turn it off, unless I do need it for something? I won't touch BLCK tuning, though it does remind me of how we used to overclock using the FSB way back when. (from what I've read so far)


Your board won't allow for bclk OC sadly, no external clock generator. On that board, there's not a whole lot that needs changing tbh. SOC @ 1.05-1.1, CCD @ .925-.975, IOD @ 1-1.05, PLL @ 1.78-1.85 should work fine as long as you're keeping it under 2000FCLK. CPU Vcore - Auto.

I have the Strix X570-E II, almost identical board as well as my others and it's the easiest to setup due to most options not being used by X3D.

Curve Optimizer just lowers the voltage each core receives for a given speed, reducing power draw and heat. As a result, the cores stay closer to the 44.5x multiplier for longer in multicore workloads and 45.5 in single.

There is no ability (yet) to add clock speed besides BCLK OC, only maximize what is available using CO.



spcysls said:


> I've been playing around with PBO2 for the first time on the X3d and I'm dropping the curve more on the cores that boost highest, is this the correct approach?


For both of the quotes, anecdotally X3D seems to be binned more for consistency across cores instead of pure leakage values, different from "X" Zen 3s. Just slap -25 into PBO2 Tuner and run OCCT small, Extreme, Steady, AVX2 for 30 minutes. If no errors or reboots occur, shoot for -30 on all cores, if errors or reboots occur go to -20. 

Once all core AVX2 is stable in OCCT then corecycler is a good idea to verify single core stability, particularly if turning CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled. 

From there you can tailor each core to your delight but with a 100mhz all core and single core split boost speed it's not a big deal on x3d like it is on "X" CPUs which have more than 1 GHz split in some cases.


----------



## spcysls

I set -50 with CO and it seems to be working for all cores with no noticeable clock stretching in P95 and boosting 200 mhz higher (4.3 all core vs 4.1). Also gets a higher cinebench score. This is weird behavior because I don't see how all cores could actually be stable at -50 but it is giving a performance bump so I don't know. (5800x3d b550 unify x w/1.2.0.6c)


----------



## Mask

TrigrH said:


> I'm not seeing this behavior on my MSI board.


Are you in same boat where you never see 4550 MHz boost?



spcysls said:


> I set -50 with CO and it seems to be working for all cores with no noticeable clock stretching in P95 and boosting 200 mhz higher (4.3 all core vs 4.1). Also gets a higher cinebench score. This is weird behavior because I don't see how all cores could actually be stable at -50 but it is giving a performance bump so I don't know. (5800x3d b550 unify x w/1.2.0.6c)


iirc, there is a cap of -30 mV for PBO2Tuner


----------



## Mask

telekinetic73 said:


> Here is screenshot, Valorant open in background
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/lZXVrnl


Woah, your voltage is _really_ high! That is probably why your clocks are crazy low when running a stress test as light as cinebench. Sorry for double post.
With -20 mV should look something like this:


----------



## ossimc

@tcclaviger 
What is the correlation with CPPC and CO?
With my 5900X i always used pref cores off cuz it gave me way better performance in warzone (with pref ON the best core was always fully utilized which led to capped fps and dips)

Has anyone tested CPPC pref ON vs OFF with X3D?


----------



## tcclaviger

I have tested yes.
CPPC Enabled and CPPC Preferred disabled offers the best performance.

With both enabled the dummy windows scheduler will sometimes load 2 threads onto one core instead of spreading them out because win10 scheduler is trying to do what's best for non 3d Zen 3.

CPPC Preferred and CO correlation is this:
With preferred disabled any given core can be loaded during a single thread boost workload so it's a good idea to ensure all cores are stable at 45.5 multiplier.

With preferred enabled single thread max boost is limited to your best 2 cores so the others only need to be 44.5 multiplier stable.

CPPC Preferred disabled offers no reduction in performance for a healthy boost in multi but less than 16 threaded workloads. Test it yourself in 3dmark CPU benchmark to see the difference, pay attention to the 4t and 8t tests in particular.

Regarding VID....ignore it. Look at SVI2/TFN or the per-core VIDs. The overall VID is useless, it is merely what the CPU is requesting based on speed/temp/vdroop/voltage offsets and can be WAY off actual voltage for a number of reasons.


----------



## TrigrH

Mask said:


> Are you in same boat where you never see 4550 MHz boost?
> 
> Yes i'm always at 44.5x


----------



## Mask

Try lowering your HWiNFO poll rate to 50 ms if that helps you see it. I never could see 4550 MHz until minutes after enabling that power plan.


----------



## CyberBongi

Oof everyone seems to be able to hit 3800 MT/s (1900 FCLK). I get stuck on F7 code as soon as I try that. 1867 is stable, and 1933 boots with great performance, but throws WHEA errors.
Any voltages/settings I should change to try and eliminate those WHEA errors?


----------



## tcclaviger

The usual suspects, can you post a zentimings screenshot? I had a similar issue early on solved with 2 memory timings.


----------



## CyberBongi

tcclaviger said:


> The usual suspects, can you post a zentimings screenshot? I had a similar issue early on solved with 2 memory timings.


I don't know if you asked me, but if you did, then there it is


----------



## hotlookman

As i understand , there is not much difference in gaming regarding ram 3800 or 4000 right? Its better for games to lower timings than higher mhz.


----------



## BHS1975

CyberBongi said:


> Oof everyone seems to be able to hit 3800 MT/s (1900 FCLK). I get stuck on F7 code as soon as I try that. 1867 is stable, and 1933 boots with great performance, but throws WHEA errors.
> Any voltages/settings I should change to try and eliminate those WHEA errors?


I'm in the same boat as you. I just run mine at 1866 with 1v SOC and tightened my ram at cl15 2T gdm off with 1.45v.


----------



## CyberBongi

BHS1975 said:


> I'm in the same boat as you. I just run mine at 1866 with 1v SOC and tightened my ram at cl15 2T gdm off with 1.45v.


In that case since you're running at CL15 and can't use GDM, you might want to try 1T with setup time 56 if pure 1T doesn't work.
Anyways, I guess you are right, but what a dissapointment that it doesn't run 1900 FCLK or higher.


----------



## BHS1975

CyberBongi said:


> In that case since you're running at CL15 and can't use GDM, you might want to try 1T with setup time 56 if pure 1T doesn't work.
> Anyways, I guess you are right, but what a dissapointment that it doesn't run 1900 FCLK or higher.


Yeah that 33mhz makes no difference anyway.


----------



## jonRock1992

What do you guys get for cpu-z benchmark (latest version) with default bios settings. And how about tuned settings?


----------



## RedF

Dayli Tuned SC: 614,5 MC: 6432,5


----------



## RedF

CyberBongi said:


> I don't know if you asked me, but if you did, then there it is
> View attachment 2560767


Have you tried RTT 0/3/1
lower VSoc to ~1,08
VDDP to ~950


----------



## jonRock1992

RedF said:


> Dayli Tuned SC: 614,5 MC: 6432,5


Thanks. I needed a reference. I haven't fully tuned mine, but my multi core seems low. I can only get around 6320. My single-core is 620 to 624. The only thing I've done is disabled preferred cores, set FCLK to 1900, and tuned RAM to 3800CL14. I haven't touch Curve Optimizer yet. Latency feels a little bit higher in gaming vs. my 5800X for some reason though.


----------



## Voltage45

jonRock1992 said:


> What do you guys get for cpu-z benchmark (latest version) with default bios settings. And how about tuned settings?


it sucks, 605 SC on default and i don't wonder tuned settings.this cpu not for benchmarking, just gaming with highest gpu as possible.


----------



## ossimc

jonRock1992 said:


> Thanks. I needed a reference. I haven't fully tuned mine, but my multi core seems low. I can only get around 6320. My single-core is 620 to 624. The only thing I've done is disabled preferred cores, set FCLK to 1900, and tuned RAM to 3800CL14. I haven't touch Curve Optimizer yet. Latency feels a little bit higher in gaming vs. my 5800X for some reason though.


Like I said. My mouse feels less snappy too...it's a real bummer for me. What were your boost clocks like with your 5800X (in games)


----------



## OCmember

@ossimc if you have dual bios run it in single bios mode and use the backup or primary, whichever you want, for bios 1206b, you'll see the difference from 1207


----------



## jonRock1992

ossimc said:


> Like I said. My mouse feels less snappy too...it's a real bummer for me. What were your boost clocks like with your 5800X (in games)


I had my 5800X set to 4950MHz boost with per core negative CO offsets.


----------



## ossimc

@OCmember
Hmm? My mobo only got 1206b so far. Still waiting for the 1207?
Wait. didn't u say 1207 is better in terms of mouse latency?


----------



## jonRock1992

My motherboard doesn't have 1207 support yet either. Hopefully it lowers latency a bit.


----------



## CyberBongi

ossimc said:


> Like I said. My mouse feels less snappy too...it's a real bummer for me. What were your boost clocks like with your 5800X (in games)


Unstable overclock that's what's up. Probably your and his RAM or IF or both are unstable.


----------



## Catscratch

telekinetic73 said:


> Here is screenshot, Valorant open in background
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/lZXVrnl


You need sustained load to see the clocks like benchmarks. Just run cinebench and observe the clocks, either with ryzen master or hwinfo64. Do NOT run both at the same time.


----------



## lunatik

jonRock1992 said:


> My motherboard doesn't have 1207 support yet either. Hopefully it lowers latency a bit.


Just curious, how do you even measure mouse latency?

I haven't noticed any difference whatsoever.. from 5600x to 5800x3d

Altough i'm using win 11 with many changed registry's etc.


----------



## jonRock1992

lunatik said:


> Just curious, how do you even measure mouse latency?
> 
> I haven't noticed any difference whatsoever.. from 5600x to 5800x3d
> 
> Altough i'm using win 11 with many changed registry's etc.


My brain lol. I didn't do objective measurements.


----------



## ossimc

@


CyberBongi said:


> Unstable overclock that's what's up. Probably your and his RAM or IF or both are unstable.


Ok I will check it with xmp settings. But I doubt that my RAM oc became unstable all of a sudden


----------



## telekinetic73

Catscratch said:


> All core boosts (benchmarks) and game boosts are different. Games will cause 1 or 2 cores to boost to max clocks. Benchmarks will cause all cores to boost according to cpu limits(power, temps) However 3600 is a low all core boost. It should be close to 4ghz with 70c. Which app are you using to observe the clocks ?


Finaly i found what was problem, in BIOS MSI game boost was active. So my test now before applied PBO -25:










and after:


http://imgur.com/2QpbcjU


----------



## tcclaviger

CyberBongi said:


> I don't know if you asked me, but if you did, then there it is
> View attachment 2560767


Try tRDWR 14 tWRRD 3 or 4. I was unable to boot at CL14 3800 with 9/3, 10/2, 11/3 using the exact same memory kit. This resolved it completely.

With that kit (currently using it)
CCD 0.97
IOD 1.025
CLDO VDDP .95
SOC 1.1
VDIMM 1.5
ProcODT 36.9
1T
GDM off

What I'm playing with at the moment. Keep in mind when you see GTZR kits or other 10 layer kits, they're more voltage tolerant than the GVKA, slightly, so they can get away with a touch tighter timings.

VDIMM is 1.52, not read correctly.


----------



## OCmember

@ossimc No I said it felt like a game lost a little responsiveness with 1207. There _is_ a behavior difference between 1206b & 1207. My backup bios is running 1206b while my primary is running 1207. Each bios is setup exactly the same.


----------



## tcclaviger

I'm weak and before I could cancel it, Newegg shipped it out, once it was in my hands.... what can I say lmao:

Just coming to grips with the level of control AMD cards offer vs Nvidia, probably not going back to team green again.
Posts to 109 BCLK without issue, so 3080ti was my weak link. This is 104.2.


----------



## jonRock1992

I tried BCLK overclocking, but it won't post. I only tried 102 though. Is there anything specifically that is needed to be done to get BCLK overclocking to work? I've never overclocked this way.


----------



## tcclaviger

The prerequisit is a board with external clock generator.

No post is usually GPU related or memory related, it changes all system clocks at once so it's a balancing act between CPU stability, FCLK, Memory and then NVME and GPU negotiation limits during post, the GPU post failure I've not figured out how to improve.

My CS3030 on the dimm.2 fails at 105.6, really the DIMM.2 fails, the drive is fine to 109 in an onboard slot.

I suggest reading some old school articles on front side bus overclock circa Sandy Bridge if it's new to you.

Ensure you have a restore point saved in Windows. Drive corruption is a real risk, had it occur last night due to operator error lol.


----------



## jonRock1992

tcclaviger said:


> The prerequisit is a board with external clock generator.
> 
> No post is usually GPU related or memory related, it changes all system clocks at once so it's a balancing act between CPU stability, FCLK, Memory and then NVME and GPU negotiation limits during post, the GPU post failure I've not figured out how to improve.
> 
> My CS3030 on the dimm.2 fails at 105.6, really the DIMM.2 fails, the drive is fine to 109 in an onboard slot.
> 
> I suggest reading some old school articles on front side bus overclock circa Sandy Bridge if it's new to you.
> 
> Ensure you have a restore point saved in Windows. Drive corruption is a real risk, had it occur last night due to operator error lol.


Ah ok thanks. I'm just confused as to why only 102 would cause it to not post. I guess I'll 101 tonight.

How does one identify if their mobo has an external clock generator? Mine is an MSI X570S Carbon Max.


----------



## Veii

tcclaviger said:


> Just coming to grips with the level of control AMD


Very fun card 
I want to see your nightraid score
Please beat me

It's CPU based, and expect X3D to be able to take first place away from XOC guys


Spoiler: OT


----------



## tcclaviger

Ask and ye shall receive sir. This sample seems to be....a little spicy, really need the waterblock to arrive so I can stretch it's legs, card takes power and laps it up, only to hit the temp wall around 480 watts.


----------



## Veii

tcclaviger said:


> Ask and ye shall receive sir. This sample seems to be....a little spicy, really need the waterblock to arrive so I can stretch it's legs, card takes power and laps it up, only to hit the temp wall around 480 watts.
> View attachment 2560829











^ new found dynamic TDC method, is better tho ~ than old "all-in no protections" method

Pinged you in DC
Here soo we play equal ground and because i like this GPU now a lot // figured yesterday a lot out
KTXT cards can run 1200 core, 1162 SOC // XTXHLC can not run beyond 1150 SOC

Use boost slider to extend TDC limit up to your cooling ability
100° hotspot is fine, all protections are active
* but i can only air cool 320W







We need to move to another thread
[Various] 6950/6750xt benchmark Review maybe or another one

But it's nice to see that they are not far off, sadly also that cache doesn't help when frequency is mising


----------



## RedF

Veii said:


> ^ new found dynamic TDC method, is better tho ~ than old "all-in no protections" method
> 
> Pinged you in DC
> Here soo we play equal ground and because i like this GPU now a lot // figured yesterday a lot out
> KTXT cards can run 1200 core, 1162 SOC // XTXHLC can not run beyond 1150 SOC
> 
> Use boost slider to extend TDC limit up to your cooling ability
> 100° hotspot is fine, all protections are active
> * but i can only air cool 320W
> View attachment 2560832
> 
> We need to move to another thread
> [Various] 6950/6750xt benchmark Review maybe or another one
> 
> But it's nice to see that they are not far off, sadly also that cache doesn't help when frequency is mising


Dynamic TDC? how does that work? : )


----------



## tcclaviger

For me it doesn't lmao, 6950 behaves....quite differently than 6900 in many ways, the main being power draw, as in, 6950xt draws all the watts. Have seen 630 watts on accident and I'm legit not pushing ....yet.....
------------
Anyway for those of you with Crosshairs and X3D who are BCLK OCing...try manual voltage + LLC 3 or 4 instead of +offset or voltage suspension and use no CO.

For my chip:
1.17vcore - 102bclk stable
1.21vcore - 103.6bclk stable
1.25vcore - 105.2bclk stable

These are lower than stock voltages I get when using auto LLC and auto vcore, but they score higher in benchmarks. It never triggers volt/freq limiter because always under v-latch. May only apply to sub-ambient cooling, not sure.

It still idles at 0 amp draw and gates the cores during idle, but software will read, in my case, 1.25 volts. The cores don't actually get the 1.25 at idle though, only the RVDD distribution plane does, totally safe imo.

105.2bclk nets 6880 nT 663 1T - in CPU-Z at 1.23vcore after sag and beating the non-LN2 5800x CPU scores in 3dmark lol.


----------



## the_aeon

how to disable tpm?


----------



## tcclaviger

It's in bios under security devices, various names for various brands.


----------



## Elrick

the_aeon said:


> how to disable tpm?


Easier to disable it under Windows 10, Windows 11 is another worthless drama not worth using with any current Ryzen Hardware.

Have instead installed all Windows 10 on every single Ryzen gear, it works reliably because Windows 11 was designed for Intel's AlderLake systems, and they work superbly compared to any ensemble of Ryzen hardware.

Even though I like using Windows 11 on all my Intel systems still prefer Windows 10 on Ryzen, still looks like a Windows OS from the old days  .


----------



## CyberBongi

ossimc said:


> @
> 
> Ok I will check it with xmp settings. But I doubt that my RAM oc became unstable all of a sudden


Why not? Ambient temp is pretty high already, summer is around the corner. RAM is sensitive to heat when pushing tight OC especially bdie.


----------



## tcclaviger

ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser


Benchmark results for an ASUS System Product Name with an AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D 8-Core Processor processor.



browser.geekbench.com









ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser


Benchmark results for an ASUS System Product Name with an AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D processor.



browser.geekbench.com












AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4761.17 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


[ytcz8p] Validated Dump by ROGALIICIOUS (2022-05-18 10:09:21) - MB: Asus ROG CROSSHAIR VIII EXTREME - RAM: 32768 MB




valid.x86.fr




Some new tests now that I'm no longer hindered by team green


----------



## RBLXXXVI

Is there a known issue with running memory in Dual Channel? 5800X3D Patriot Viper Ram (not on qvl but never had an issue with these sticks on Ryzen 1) Asus X570-E. I have Ram in 2 and 4 slots, individual sticks work ok, worked ok at 3500 with my old 1600X (now using docp 3733). Maybe this is a needs further updates to bios AGESA thing? I've reseated ram, gpu, slacked off the cpu cooler so far with no change. PC seems to be stable at stock, gamed 12 hours - temps good etc. Bit puzzled tbh. I really want to get this solved before I move on to further tweaking. Would it be worth using 1usmus tool?


----------



## RedF

RBLXXXVI said:


> Is there a known issue with running memory in Dual Channel? 5800X3D Patriot Viper Ram (not on qvl but never had an issue with these sticks on Ryzen 1) Asus X570-E. I have Ram in 2 and 4 slots, individual sticks work ok, worked ok at 3500 with my old 1600X (now using docp 3733). Maybe this is a needs further updates to bios AGESA thing? I've reseated ram, gpu, slacked off the cpu cooler so far with no change. PC seems to be stable at stock, gamed 12 hours - temps good etc. Bit puzzled tbh. I really want to get this solved before I move on to further tweaking. Would it be worth using 1usmus tool?


The 1usmus tool is already somewhat outdated. 
But you won't make any mistakes with it.

Read out your RAMS with Thaiphoon burner. 
And see what the Ryzen DRAM Calculator spits out.


----------



## lunatik

Elrick said:


> Easier to disable it under Windows 10, Windows 11 is another worthless drama not worth using with any current Ryzen Hardware.


I have 0 issues using windows 11 with 5600x/5800x3d and 6700xt. Atleast for gaming..(Mostly just playing warzone with friends, 1440p, fps locked @180 - with some occasional dips to 160 in very heavy areas)


----------



## Voltage45

damn gpu is weak.is gsync effective i wonder?

and this is my 11700k 3080 old type reference all stock.poor 11700k










hyper-v is disabled on intel but still no joy.


----------



## tcclaviger

RBLXXXVI said:


> Is there a known issue with running memory in Dual Channel? 5800X3D Patriot Viper Ram (not on qvl but never had an issue with these sticks on Ryzen 1) Asus X570-E. I have Ram in 2 and 4 slots, individual sticks work ok, worked ok at 3500 with my old 1600X (now using docp 3733). Maybe this is a needs further updates to bios AGESA thing? I've reseated ram, gpu, slacked off the cpu cooler so far with no change. PC seems to be stable at stock, gamed 12 hours - temps good etc. Bit puzzled tbh. I really want to get this solved before I move on to further tweaking. Would it be worth using 1usmus tool?


The only bugs I'm aware of are the 1900FCLK quirkiness and the WHEA 19 generation over 1900 FCLK for most. What is the problem? Not clear what it isn't doing for you from your post. 1usmus Ryzen calculator is quite out of date at this point. If you post a zentimings screenshot we can try and assist you.


----------



## MrHoof

tcclaviger said:


> ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser
> 
> 
> Benchmark results for an ASUS System Product Name with an AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D 8-Core Processor processor.
> 
> 
> 
> browser.geekbench.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser
> 
> 
> Benchmark results for an ASUS System Product Name with an AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D processor.
> 
> 
> 
> browser.geekbench.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4761.17 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
> 
> 
> [ytcz8p] Validated Dump by ROGALIICIOUS (2022-05-18 10:09:21) - MB: Asus ROG CROSSHAIR VIII EXTREME - RAM: 32768 MB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> valid.x86.fr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some new tests now that I'm no longer hindered by team green


Thats a 5800x with 3d cache at that point amazing.


----------



## tcclaviger

MrHoof said:


> Thats a 5800x with 3d cache at that point amazing.


 Exactly my goal when I bought the x3d.


----------



## domdtxdissar

Veii said:


> Very fun card
> I want to see your nightraid score
> Please beat me
> 
> It's CPU based, and expect X3D to be able to take first place away from XOC guys
> 
> 
> Spoiler: OT





tcclaviger said:


> Ask and ye shall receive sir. This sample seems to be....a little spicy, really need the waterblock to arrive so I can stretch it's legs, card takes power and laps it up, only to hit the temp wall around 480 watts.
> View attachment 2560829


wow i'm getting left in the dust since i can only run 100mhz baseclock on this setup ;( ..But did put up some pretty decent numbers for a green graphic card atleast  (multiple rank#1 with Nvidia+5800x3d combo)








Night Raid score = 72331 points

Graphics Score 171771
CPU Score 16898
Wild Life score = 124195 points

Wild life Extreme = 52837 points

Fire Strike = 41882 points

Graphics Score 55490
Physics Score 30370
Combined Score 18446
Fire Strike Extreme = 26505 points

Graphics Score 28705
Physics Score 30422
Combined Score 14995
Fire Strike Ultra = 14864 points

Graphics Score 14992
Physics Score 30318
Combined Score 8130
Time Spy = 20891 points

Graphics Score 23182
CPU Score 13393
Time Spy Extreme = 10322 points

Graphics Score 12056
CPU Score 5687
Port Royal = 15879 points


*As a comparison, here are my 3090 numbers with the 5950x:*


*Port Royal = 16 050* *@ *I scored 16 050 in Port Royal

Graphics Score = 16050
*TIME SPY = 22 666 *@ I scored 22 666 in Time Spy

Graphics Score = 23 449
CPU Score = 19 062
*TIME SPY EXTREME = 12 180* @ I scored 12 180 in Time Spy Extreme

Graphics Score = 12 258
CPU Score = 11 760
*FIRE STRIKE = 43 513* @ I scored 43 513 in Fire Strike

Graphics Score = 49 613
Physics Score = 44 674
Combined Score = 22 188
*FIRE STRIKE extreme = 27 138 @* I scored 27 138 in Fire Strike Extreme

Graphics Score = 27 940
Physics Score = 44 267
Combined Score = 15 113
*FIRE STRIKE ULTRA = 15 072 *@ I scored 15 072 in Fire Strike Ultra

Graphics Score = 14 796
Physics Score = 44 514
Combined Score = 8 140
5800x3d is much stronger in real games than 3dmark would lead you to believe as seen here:
(the "CPU benchmarks" in 3dmark are pretty much render tests with little correlation to a real gaming workloads)


----------



## yzonker

domdtxdissar said:


> wow i'm getting left in the dust since i can only run 100mhz baseclock on this setup ;( ..But did put up some pretty decent numbers for a green graphic card atleast  (multiple rank#1 with Nvidia+5800x3d combo)
> View attachment 2560943
> 
> 
> Night Raid score = 72331 points
> 
> Graphics Score 171771
> CPU Score 16898
> Wild Life score = 124195 points
> 
> Wild life Extreme = 52837 points
> 
> Fire Strike = 41882 points
> 
> Graphics Score 55490
> Physics Score 30370
> Combined Score 18446
> Fire Strike Extreme = 26505 points
> 
> Graphics Score 28705
> Physics Score 30422
> Combined Score 14995
> Fire Strike Ultra = 14864 points
> 
> Graphics Score 14992
> Physics Score 30318
> Combined Score 8130
> Time Spy = 20891 points
> 
> Graphics Score 23182
> CPU Score 13393
> Time Spy Extreme = 10322 points
> 
> Graphics Score 12056
> CPU Score 5687
> Port Royal = 15879 points
> 
> 
> *As a comparison, here are my 3090 numbers with the 5950x:*
> 
> 
> *Port Royal = 16 050* *@ *I scored 16 050 in Port Royal
> 
> Graphics Score = 16050
> *TIME SPY = 22 666 *@ I scored 22 666 in Time Spy
> 
> Graphics Score = 23 449
> CPU Score = 19 062
> *TIME SPY EXTREME = 12 180* @ I scored 12 180 in Time Spy Extreme
> 
> Graphics Score = 12 258
> CPU Score = 11 760
> *FIRE STRIKE = 43 513* @ I scored 43 513 in Fire Strike
> 
> Graphics Score = 49 613
> Physics Score = 44 674
> Combined Score = 22 188
> *FIRE STRIKE extreme = 27 138 @* I scored 27 138 in Fire Strike Extreme
> 
> Graphics Score = 27 940
> Physics Score = 44 267
> Combined Score = 15 113
> *FIRE STRIKE ULTRA = 15 072 *@ I scored 15 072 in Fire Strike Ultra
> 
> Graphics Score = 14 796
> Physics Score = 44 514
> Combined Score = 8 140


You're taking quite a bit larger hit in graphics scores than I did. Don't think it's the bclk. 

5800x









I scored 16 107 in Port Royal


AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com





5800x3D 









I scored 16 036 in Port Royal


AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com














Result







www.3dmark.com


----------



## RBLXXXVI

tcclaviger said:


> The only bugs I'm aware of are the 1900FCLK quirkiness and the WHEA 19 generation over 1900 FCLK for most. What is the problem? Not clear what it isn't doing for you from your post. 1usmus Ryzen calculator is quite out of date at this point. If you post a zentimings screenshot we can try and assist you.


Thanks for offering to help. I've not managed to do much tweaking yet as I wanted to get this issue fixed first. So there's a bunch of screenshots attached, Zen-timings, Thaiphoon and a CPUz Bench (which looks awfully slow compared to others here) what I wanted to know before was if there was any known reason why dual channel ram isn't working, I've marked the screeny so you know exactly what I mean. Historically dual channel being on was a big deal but IDK if that has changed since I was last looking to overclock! First image is just docp and second is docp and other tweaks you recommended. Seems my CPU is not boosting, what have I missed? (At least the GPU score is ok!) EDIT: I think I found the problem. See final picture. (Does it matter which version I move to? Incidentally I did a USB flash but this is an old bios version I think?) Final edit: With updated bios - does anything stand out now? Thanks.


----------



## domdtxdissar

yzonker said:


> You're taking quite a bit larger hit in graphics scores than I did. Don't think it's the bclk.
> 
> 5800x
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 16 107 in Port Royal
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5800x3D
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 16 036 in Port Royal
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Result
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com


I'm talking about against other people which can run higher baseclock on their 5800x3d's and get higher cpu clockspeeds.. (read such as tcclaviger and yourself )
And you link Port Royal which are the 3dmark that benefit the least from increased cpu clockspeeds.. the other benches have their own cpu scores 

(the main scoring difference between my own 5950x and my 5800x3d in port royal are the temps..)


----------



## yzonker

domdtxdissar said:


> I'm talking about against other people which can run higher baseclock on their 5800x3d's and get higher cpu clockspeeds.. (read such as tcclaviger and yourself )
> And you link Port Royal which are the 3dmark that benefit the least from increased cpu clockspeeds.. the other benches have their own cpu scores
> 
> (the main scoring difference between my own 5950x and my 5800x3d in port royal are the temps..)


2C doesn't make that much difference in PR (looks like 25 vs 27)


----------



## tcclaviger

I also had a general 3dmark GPU performance reduction across the board, I cannot match my 5950x graphics scores with X3D, but they're pretty close.

As mentioned in gaming that flips and Dom your system is running very well for stock CPU speeds! I cannot find the Gskills you're using for sale anymore, looks like they've phased all sub 7.5ns b-die SKUs to EOL  GVKAs are out there but it's still 8 layer not 10 



RBLXXXVI said:


> Thanks for offering to help. I've not managed to do much tweaking yet as I wanted to get this issue fixed first. So there's a bunch of screenshots attached, Zen-timings, Thaiphoon and a CPUz Bench (which looks awfully slow compared to others here) what I wanted to know before was if there was any known reason why dual channel ram isn't working, I've marked the screeny so you know exactly what I mean. Historically dual channel being on was a big deal but IDK if that has changed since I was last looking to overclock! First image is just docp and second is docp and other tweaks you recommended. Seems my CPU is not boosting, what have I missed? (At least the GPU score is ok!) EDIT: I think I found the problem. See final picture. (Does it matter which version I move to? Incidentally I did a USB flash but this is an old bios version I think?)


First pic shows the .ost significant issue I see FCLK:UCLK:MCLK are not in 1:1. That will immediately neuter any Zen3. Ensure FCLK is 1/2 Memory speed in bios, e.g. 1900 FCLK and 3800 memory or 1866 FCLK and 3733 memory.

Second pic shows them 1:1 as should be, but you're correct those cpuz scores are with boost disabled, just base clock speed. It's because your bios is much too old, at least that's what it looks like in 4th pic.

Update to most recent bioses from Asus site, should fix it. Either 4204 or 4403.

Just a note, you're in dual channel, using single rank. Dual channel dual rank is ideal but the gain isn't huge in most scenarios.


----------



## RBLXXXVI

tcclaviger said:


> I had a general 3dmark GPU performance reduction across the board, I cannot match my 5950x graphics scores with xA3D, but they're pretty close.
> 
> As mentioned in gaming that flips.
> 
> 
> 
> First pic shows the .ost significant issue I see FCLK:UCLK:MCLK are not in 1:1. That will immediately neuter any Zen3. Ensure FCLK is 1/2 Memory speed in bios, e.g. 1900 FCLK and 3800 memory or 1866 FCLK and 3733 memory.
> 
> Second pic shows them 1:1 as should be, but you're correct those cpuz scores are with boost disabled, just base clock speed. It's because your bios is much too old, at least that's what it looks like in 4th pic.
> 
> Update to most recent bios from Asus site, should fix it.


Thanks, I did just do that and edited the post to reflect that I'd understood some things and made some changes. Is it fair to say you always want 1/1 (My ram is rated 3733) so there would be no point in increasing FCLK unless I can run my ram at a higher speed? Couple of further questions - any clue on Dual Channel Ram not being active and should I change the strength of the PBO modifier in bios prior to using the tool?


----------



## tcclaviger

Don't touch anything in PBO areas, it breaks boosting on X3D, Leave it all either auto or disabled.

Correct, raising FCLK and ending up in non 1:1 will reduce performance unless you're running very fast memory.


----------



## LtMatt

Managed to get this stable (to at least 10 passes of 1usmus anyway) after many attempts and some kind help from @Taraquin. 








VDIMM at 1.510v
BCLK at 100.8Mhz

I've not had any luck with Geardown mode disabled as of yet, even with AddrCMDSetup at 56 and any higher on the BCLK results in my Sata raid drivers vanishing and or the system failing to post.


----------



## lestatdk

Anyone else stuck at max frequency of 4450 ? My CPU is stable so far at -30 on all cores with PBO, but still the max frequency doesn't go higher. In PBO it says max of 4550.


----------



## Sparrow1408

lestatdk said:


> Anyone else stuck at max frequency of 4450 ? My CPU is stable so far at -30 on all cores with PBO, but still the max frequency doesn't go higher. In PBO it says max of 4550.
> 
> View attachment 2561007


Mine was stuck at 44.5X with the 1.2.0.6b BIOS and flashing it again fixed the issue.

The board has since been flashed again with a 1.2.0.7 BIOS and the issue hasn't returned.


----------



## jonRock1992

Was able to get a decent tune on my 5800x3d after disconnecting my sata drives:
AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 3731.89 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR (x86.fr)
CPU-z 1t - 646 nt - 6594

103.66 BCLK, -14 CO

Also, if I want to get my SATA drives to work with the raised BCLK, would I just need to buy a PCIe to SATA expansion card?
Would this work: https://www.amazon.com/BEYIMEI-Expr...id=1652970982&sprefix=pcie+sata,aps,91&sr=8-4


----------



## pfinch

Sparrow1408 said:


> Mine was stuck at 44.5X with the 1.2.0.6b BIOS and flashing it again fixed the issue.
> 
> The board has since been flashed again with a 1.2.0.7 BIOS and the issue hasn't returned.


4450 is max multi boost, right?! and 4550 max single boost?!


----------



## RedF

pfinch said:


> 4450 is max multi boost, right?! and 4550 max single boost?!


Yes


----------



## Sparrow1408

pfinch said:


> 4450 is max multi boost, right?! and 4550 max single boost?!


I haven't tested that specifically; With my ITX build only having a 120mm AIO to keep the chip cool I don't think I'll be able to hit the MAX all core frequency. The machine hits 90c at about 4300/4350, depending on the workload, after running... 

My sample isn't prime stable at -30 AC offset (two core just refuse to run) but an all core offset of -25 will hit just over 4000 and the system can keep that up all day WHEA and thread failure free.

Cinebench is about 4350 and goes from a score of about 14200 to 14500 with the offset allowing higher frequency.

The single thread max read out by HWinfo and Ryzen Master is 4500+


----------



## LtMatt

jonRock1992 said:


> Was able to get a decent tune on my 5800x3d after disconnecting my sata drives:
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 3731.89 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR (x86.fr)
> CPU-z 1t - 646 nt - 6594
> 
> 103.66 BCLK, -14 CO
> 
> Also, if I want to get my SATA drives to work with the raised BCLK, would I just need to buy a PCIe to SATA expansion card?
> Would this work: https://www.amazon.com/BEYIMEI-Express-Controller-Expansion-Windows10/dp/B07PRRQ41J/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?crid=CV7WZA3A3RA&keywords=pcie+sata+expansion+card&qid=1652970982&sprefix=pcie+sata,aps,91&sr=8-4


Nice one Jon.

What latency do you get on Aida and is it stable?

Could you share Aida64 and Zen Timings screenshots please?


----------



## lestatdk

Mine's stuck at 4450 on single and multi..  I'm on 1.2.0.6c at the moment since MSI is slooooow to release 1.2.0.7 for my board for some reason.

Even with this low frequency performance is still good, so no biggie. 

Going -30 offset dropped my max temp under load from 82 to 68-70


----------



## the_aeon

If -30 allcores is not stable, climbing LLC, to me it worked


----------



## OCmember

Found something interesting. Other day I had Ryzen Master open and was checking ST thread scheduling while running ST R23 and in Ryzen Master the I/O clock frequency was listed under 'Additional Control' I'm assuming it was because I'm running NBIO LCLK DPM manual mode. It listed the current clock, Clock Min, Clock Max frequencies.


----------



## blu3dragon

the_aeon said:


> If -30 allcores is not stable, climbing LLC, to me it worked


Are you stable for single core loads though? (E.g. core cycler).

For me it is better to raise offsets a little on the cores that are not stable. End result is the CPU gets the same voltage after vdroop, but this gives more precise control on individual cores.

If you have a core that can do single core stable, but is not stable for multi, then raising LLC will help though.


----------



## Sparrow1408

the_aeon said:


> If -30 allcores is not stable, climbing LLC, to me it worked


I may mess with it more _when_ AMD releases official support. @ -30 offset it looked like the CPU was pulling 1.19V and at -25 1.21V so the difference isn't enough to matter.


----------



## jonRock1992

LtMatt said:


> Nice one Jon.
> 
> What latency do you get on Aida and is it stable?
> 
> Could you share Aida64 and Zen Timings screenshots please?


It turned out to not be stable. Reverted to 101.8 BCLK so my SATA drives would work. Currently testing with -22 all-core Curve Optimizer. So far so good, but lost 10 1T points in CPU-Z. Not a big deal really.


----------



## Mask

lestatdk said:


> Mine's stuck at 4450 on single and multi..  I'm on 1.2.0.6c at the moment since MSI is slooooow to release 1.2.0.7 for my board for some reason.
> 
> Even with this low frequency performance is still good, so no biggie.
> 
> Going -30 offset dropped my max temp under load from 82 to 68-70


I'm on an MSI board with 1.2.0.6c and I could not see 4550 MHz single core for a few weeks until I got the AMD Ryzen Balanced LowPower v8 power plan. Do not enable PBO in BIOS. Keep it all auto. I have C-States enabled, but it was boosting fine with it disabled (with LowPower v8) I even have spread spectrum on now since the CPU is boosting with that too!

Use HWiNFO at 50 ms ping to verify. Within minutes of enabling the power plan, HWiNFO was seeing 4550 MHz on several cores, just doing basic stuff on Windows.
Power Plans: Ryzen Custom Power Plans for Windows 10 (Balanced and...


----------



## tcclaviger

The power plan was a good find to fixt 45.5 for people who aren't getting it!

I'm finding voltage control is high situational as to what strategy is ideal, there's no universal best strategy.

Best bet I can say for those under 103 bclk, auto vcore + auto LLC + CO and if the CPU will take it a small neg offset.

Over 103 things start to get spicy and voltage control has a larger impact on scores than bclk does.

Over 105 you'll start banging the v-latch of 1.3v without very careful tuning and tanking performance.

The FIT voltage-frequency table extends way past 45.5, just like normal Zen3.


----------



## LtMatt

I have applied a small overclock via BCLK, however I've just realised that this does not appear to result in the actual CPU frequency increase. I should be seeing something like 4.870Ghz, but all cores show as 4.55-4.450Ghz in HWINFO64/Afterburner. 

Any ideas what could be causing that? I have force OC mode set to enabled in the BIOS, but this didn't appear to make any difference as far as I can tell.


----------



## TrigrH

LtMatt said:


> I have applied a small overclock via BCLK, however I've just realised that this does not appear to result in the actual CPU frequency increase. I should be seeing something like 4.870Ghz, but all cores show as 4.55-4.450Ghz in HWINFO64/Afterburner.
> 
> Any ideas what could be causing that? I have force OC mode set to enabled in the BIOS, but this didn't appear to make any difference as far as I can tell.


CPU-Z screenshot please


----------



## RedF

Yesterday briefly tested without SATA. BCLK 104 also still runs with CO -30. At BCLK 105 only 3400MHz.

I have to take a closer look.


----------



## lestatdk

Mask said:


> I'm on an MSI board with 1.2.0.6c and I could not see 4550 MHz single core for a few weeks until I got the AMD Ryzen Balanced LowPower v8 power plan. Do not enable PBO in BIOS. Keep it all auto. I have C-States enabled, but it was boosting fine with it disabled (with LowPower v8) I even have spread spectrum on now since the CPU is boosting with that too!
> 
> Use HWiNFO at 50 ms ping to verify. Within minutes of enabling the power plan, HWiNFO was seeing 4550 MHz on several cores, just doing basic stuff on Windows.
> Power Plans: Ryzen Custom Power Plans for Windows 10 (Balanced and...


Nope, I'm still stuck 










Hope the 1.2.0.7 might fix it when it comes


----------



## pfinch

someone is using the 5800x3d with win11? I don't see any difference with CPPC Pref Cores disabled. Maybe the Win11 scheduler was updated compared to the win10 one?


----------



## BHS1975

pfinch said:


> someone is using the 5800x3d with win11? I don't see any difference with CPPC Pref Cores disabled. Maybe the Win11 scheduler was updated compared to the win10 one?


Yeah I'm on win 11 and can't tell either.


----------



## Nighthog

jonRock1992 said:


> Was able to get a decent tune on my 5800x3d after disconnecting my sata drives:
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 3731.89 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR (x86.fr)
> CPU-z 1t - 646 nt - 6594
> 
> 103.66 BCLK, -14 CO
> 
> Also, if I want to get my SATA drives to work with the raised BCLK, would I just need to buy a PCIe to SATA expansion card?
> Would this work: https://www.amazon.com/BEYIMEI-Express-Controller-Expansion-Windows10/dp/B07PRRQ41J/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?crid=CV7WZA3A3RA&keywords=pcie+sata+expansion+card&qid=1652970982&sprefix=pcie+sata,aps,91&sr=8-4


I bought a IOCrest 2SATA PCIE M.2 Card for this but it does only 102.5BCLK before dropping my SATA drives.
Not the optimal choice. Looking for another alternative that has a larger range for BCLK.
The card I got had a JMB582 controller (JMICRON)

Would be good to see others test different manufacturer controllers to see if any are better at this than others.


----------



## Blameless

Nighthog said:


> I bought a IOCrest 2SATA PCIE M.2 Card for this but it does only 102.5BCLK before dropping my SATA drives.
> Not the optimal choice. Looking for another alternative that has a larger range for BCLK.
> The card I got had a JMB582 controller (JMICRON)
> 
> Would be good to see others test different manufacturer controllers to see if any are better at this than others.


Note that the drive itself may be the issue. Almost all cheap controllers use the PCI-E clock as a reference for SATA signaling, and if the drive can't handle the higher rate, it doesn't matter what the controller can do.


----------



## reantum

Hello.

Using 5800x3d with Unify. Using 1.2.0.7 bios. Any suggest for overclock?


----------



## tcclaviger

LtMatt said:


> I have applied a small overclock via BCLK, however I've just realised that this does not appear to result in the actual CPU frequency increase. I should be seeing something like 4.870Ghz, but all cores show as 4.55-4.450Ghz in HWINFO64/Afterburner.
> 
> Any ideas what could be causing that? I have force OC mode set to enabled in the BIOS, but this didn't appear to make any difference as far as I can tell.


AMD CBS > CPU Common > Global C-State Control - Enabled
Should get it boosting properly.
4.87 is almost guaranteed to not be stable without clock stretching, you'll need voltage. It may run without it, but scores in various tasks will tank due to stretching. Then add too much and scores will tank for banging the 1.3 V-latch point.



RedF said:


> Yesterday briefly tested without SATA. BCLK 104 also still runs with CO -30. At BCLK 105 only 3400MHz.
> 
> I have to take a closer look.


Ignore the speed, look at scores. Money -30 scores worse at 104 than a lesser CO offset.




pfinch said:


> someone is using the 5800x3d with win11? I don't see any difference with CPPC Pref Cores disabled. Maybe the Win11 scheduler was updated compared to the win10 one?


The easiest test is 3dmark CPU test. Run with/without CPPC Preferred. If you pick up 400ish points in 8t test, that's the difference. It's not something that is apparent often in testing but does manifest as smoother frame time consistency in games.

If win11 scores the same with it on/off, that would indeed be an improvement thanks to Windows Alder Lake edition's scheduler changes.


----------



## jonRock1992

tcclaviger said:


> AMD CBS > CPU Common > Global C-State Control - Enabled
> Should get it boosting properly.
> 4.87 is almost guaranteed to not be stable without clock stretching, you'll need voltage. It may run without it, but scores in various tasks will tank due to stretching. Then add too much and scores will tank for banging the 1.3 V-latch point.
> 
> 
> 
> Ignore the speed, look at scores. Money -30 scores worse at 104 than a lesser CO offset.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The easiest test is 3dmark CPU test. Run with/without CPPC Preferred. If you pick up 400ish points in 8t test, that's the difference. It's not something that is apparent often in testing but does manifest as smoother frame time consistency in games.
> 
> If win11 scores the same with it on/off, that would indeed be an improvement thanks to Windows Alder Lake edition's scheduler changes.


I've noticed this behavior. For a quick way to test for clock stretching, use cpu-z bench.


----------



## tcclaviger

CPUz is what I check with first for gross stretching.

The best test I've found is benchmate y-crucher 1b or 2.5b. They both show any sign of stretching but are memory reliant so not comparable across systems.

R23 1t is also very good at identifying stretching but it takes too long for me. For 1t I like 3dmark CPU test, just the single test, fairly quick and highly sensitive to stretching.

Based on my own results which might have a touch of stretching remaining, with no stretching scores should be roughly:
4.8 1t cpuz should be ~ 670.
4.7 16t cpuz should be ~ 6980.
4.8ghz 1t 3dmark should be ~ 970.
4.7 Max or 16t 3dmark should be ~ 8060
R23 at 4.8 1t should be ~ 1590-1600.
R23 4.7 nT should be ~16100.


----------



## jonRock1992

I've settled on 101.8 BCLK for now. SATA drives are holding me back. It's a nice boost over stock for me at least. Using -22 CO and LLC Mode 3.
AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4632 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR (x86.fr)
1T - 635, 16T - 6563

Update: Here's my AIDA64 mem bench:









Could the reason why my mouse feels a little less responsive than when I was using the Dark Hero + 5800X be that my memory latency is around 6ns higher? I really can't tell if it's just all in my head, but it feels like the mouse latency went up just a little bit.


----------



## RBLXXXVI

So I fixed most of the issues I had with my 5800X3D and just done another pre CO Tune. My outcomes have improved, though I notice that the Clock Frequency has some quite substantial dips, is this something to be concerned about? Old Bench on top, new below. Could the dips in the CPU frequency be due to the GPU not keeping up with the CPU? Thanks.

OLD BENCH









Today Bench:


----------



## tcclaviger

The dips like that can indicate a few things, one being the CPU down time as you posit. It can indicate instability as well as the benchmark simply recorded the time interval when work was being handed off between cores. The GTs don't fully load the X3D I've noticed, usually 1 core is chilling for me while 7 are working and windows rotates which core is idle. CPPC Preferred disabled has reduced this for me actually and usually is a flat line.

From the above it looks like GT1 was just handing work around and GT2 had a little hiccup of a background application or a moment of instability.

If your scores are consistent (not exactly, but close) I wouldn't worry about it. When seeing run to run variance more than 200 points is when I tend to start investigating temp/voltage/instability.

EDIT: Looking through my results I'm noticing my 3080ti has these dips on CPU speed far more frequently than the 6950 results do, I wonder if it's driver induced. Nvidia has more driver overhead so it would kind of make sense as scheduler juggles things around it will create more speed variance on Ryzen.

Ideal:








Frequently seen:


----------



## LtMatt

TrigrH said:


> CPU-Z screenshot please


Thanks, CPU-Z confirmed it is boosting properly so HWINFO64/MSI AB not reporting the true clock speeds for some reason.


tcclaviger said:


> AMD CBS > CPU Common > Global C-State Control - Enabled
> Should get it boosting properly.
> 4.87 is almost guaranteed to not be stable without clock stretching, you'll need voltage. It may run without it, but scores in various tasks will tank due to stretching. Then add too much and scores will tank for banging the 1.3 V-latch point.


Thanks. Major typo, i should have been running at near 4.6Ghz, not 4.8...

Quick question for you @tcclaviger,

I keep getting a failure after 30-60 minutes with the below. Error test is usually 10, but sometimes it is 2. Error 10 on TM5 says 'Error 10 mostly affects the first 5 main timings
- noticed it can be tRCDWR to RD. can be tRP too, but it also can be the last two tRDWR & tRDRD which don't play well with your main tRCDWR/RD'.









Using 1.523v VDIMM, tries 1.525v but no change.

Do you have any suggestions for easing those timings one notch (and any other sub/third timings that need adjusting so everything flows) as a base for me to start with? I'd like to make sure I adjust all the appropriate timings to rule out a timings issue. I know error 2 usually relates to voltage, but despite changing a few voltages (DRAM, SOC and VDDP) I've not been able to fix it.



jonRock1992 said:


> I've noticed this behavior. For a quick way to test for clock stretching, use cpu-z bench.


Which exact test (bench or stress test) do you both use for CPU-Z clock stretching? AVX or something else?


----------



## tcclaviger

I would adjust tRAS to 29, TRC to 44, tRDWR and tWRRD to 12 and 2 respectively, for now and rerun it. If it is clean, tCWL I'd pull down to 12 if it will do so and rerun. Then start cranking down again 1 at a time until instability is found, starting with tRDWR and tWRRD first since they impact bandwidth the most of the 4 changed in the loosening process.

Others here, like Dom and Veii and more know far more about RAM fine tuning than I do 

--------------------------------------

Threw these together as best as I understand them to try and demonstrate what to look for when overclocking X3D and dialing just that right amount of voltage. Note, hitting the PPT limit on X3D is NOT normal.... IMHO it's perfectly fine to accept a little loss in speed on insane loads, like y-cruncher, for more speed in less demanding loads, like gaming and general use. All part of the balance each person achieves.

Good







Bad







Note: Because of the update speed of zenPTmonitor it's hard to catch the perfect screen shot, it is TDC limited, just not at this screen refresh.


----------



## LtMatt

tcclaviger said:


> I would adjust tRAS to 29, TRC to 44, tRDWR and tWRRD to 12 and 2 respectively, for now and rerun it. If it is clean, tCWL I'd pull down to 12 if it will do so and rerun. Then start cranking down again 1 at a time until instability is found, starting with tRDWR and tWRRD first since they impact bandwidth the most of the 4 changed in the loosening process.
> 
> Others here, like Dom and Veii and more know far more about RAM fine tuning than I do
> 
> --------------------------------------
> 
> Threw these together as best as I understand them to try and demonstrate what to look for when overclocking X3D and dialing just that right amount of voltage. Note, hitting the PPT limit on X3D is NOT normal.... IMHO it's perfectly fine to accept a little loss in speed on insane loads, like y-cruncher, for more speed in less demanding loads, like gaming and general use. All part of the balance each person achieves.
> 
> Good
> View attachment 2561279
> 
> Bad
> View attachment 2561280
> 
> Note: Because of the update speed of zenPTmonitor it's hard to catch the perfect screen shot, it is TDC limited, just not at this screen refresh.


Thanks, I'll start there. Should probably move that query to the Ryzen memory stability thread.


----------



## xProlific

Is anyone on an Asus board able to hit 45.5?


----------



## Voltage45

RBLXXXVI said:


> So I fixed most of the issues I had with my 5800X3D and just done another pre CO Tune. My outcomes have improved, though I notice that the Clock Frequency has some quite substantial dips, is this something to be concerned about? Old Bench on top, new below. Could the dips in the CPU frequency be due to the GPU not keeping up with the CPU? Thanks.
> 
> OLD BENCH
> View attachment 2561261
> 
> 
> Today Bench:
> View attachment 2561264












wut?


NVR i forgot HT was disabled.


----------



## xeizo

I will know on Monday when I have time to put a 5800X3D in my CH8E, will be interesting


----------



## domdtxdissar

tcclaviger said:


> EDIT: Looking through my results I'm noticing my 3080ti has these dips on CPU speed far more frequently than the 6950 results do, I wonder if it's driver induced. Nvidia has more driver overhead so it would kind of make sense as scheduler juggles things around it will create more speed variance on Ryzen.


Dont seem to be a nvidia problem.

Time spy:









Fire Strike:








Fire Strike extreme:







Offtopic: Think i will change back to my 5950x next week, so boring not being able to overlock cpu clockspeed on the 5800x3d when i have this binned 16 core just laying around now.. 😇


----------



## bloot

-30 CO and stock BCLK


----------



## Horigo

Damn this **** is hot !!!! What kind of cooling do you have ?


----------



## OCmember

@LtMatt Have you tried changing resistance ? e.g. ClkDrvStr


----------



## reantum

@tcclaviger Hi! 










X570 Unify 1.2.0.7 Bios. Can u help me 5800x3d overclock? 
Patriot Viper Steel 4400mhz cl19


----------



## RBLXXXVI

xProlific said:


> Is anyone on an Asus board able to hit 45.5?


Hi I may have misunderstood your question, do you mean your CPU isn't boosting at all? If so go into your bios and turn on PBO.


----------



## paih85

5800x3d def bclk, all core CO -30, ram 3600c14, fclk 1800, rx6800 ref power limit 15%...


----------



## tcclaviger

reantum said:


> @tcclaviger Hi!
> 
> View attachment 2561324
> 
> 
> X570 Unify 1.2.0.7 Bios. Can u help me 5800x3d overclock?
> Patriot Viper Steel 4400mhz cl19


I have literally zero experience with MSI. I don't even know what their bios looks like.


Horigo said:


> Damn this **** is hot !!!! What kind of cooling do you have ?


It's hot, but it's ok if it's hot, it's the most heat tolerant Zen 3 CPU by design and gains the least performance from cooling of the whole 5000 series. As long as it's staying under 85c totally safe for air cooling.


xProlific said:


> Is anyone on an Asus board able to hit 45.5?


Most software reports 45.5 multi used for me, in reality 45.3 or 45.4 is peak it achieves for me on 3 different Asus boards now across 6 bios files. The only boards I e seen hitting true 45.5, aka 630 1t cpuz scores stock are MSI.


domdtxdissar said:


> Dont seem to be a nvidia problem.
> 
> Time spy:
> View attachment 2561301
> 
> 
> Fire Strike:
> View attachment 2561302
> 
> 
> Fire Strike extreme:
> View attachment 2561303
> 
> Offtopic: Think i will change back to my 5950x next week, so boring not being able to overlock cpu clockspeed on the 5800x3d when i have this binned 16 core just laying around now.. 😇
> View attachment 2561304
> View attachment 2561305
> View attachment 2561306
> View attachment 2561307


Dont blame you, it's zzzzz for benching tbh. My 5950 will be going back in briefly for BMs next weekend.


----------



## LtMatt

OCmember said:


> @LtMatt Have you tried changing resistance ? e.g. ClkDrvStr


Yes I've tried most things, but have not found the magical combination. 

Actually that screenshot I posted, I've never been able to achieve any more than 30 minutes before a failure since posting that so going in the wrong direction atm. 

3866Mhz might be out of reach for someone with my limited knowledge.


----------



## xProlific

Max I am seeing is 44.503 on an Asus Dark Hero, Bios 4201, AGESA 1207. Wondering if there is any bios settings that may be preventing me from seeing 45.5.


----------



## LtMatt

xProlific said:


> Max I am seeing is 44.503 on an Asus Dark Hero, Bios 4201, AGESA 1207. Wondering if there is any bios settings that may be preventing me from seeing 45.5.
> View attachment 2561375


Try flashing back to the previous BIOS. Power flush and clear CMOS too afterwards.


----------



## OCmember

@LtMatt Keep trying LT, you'll get it. I was getting those odd errors when I was tuning my kit. Do you have the cheat sheet for TM5?


----------



## LtMatt

OCmember said:


> @LtMatt Keep trying LT, you'll get it. I was getting those odd errors when I was tuning my kit. Do you have the cheat sheet for TM5?


Not sure, I’ve looked at the thread on these forums. Can you share it?


----------



## OCmember

LtMatt said:


> Not sure, I’ve looked at the thread on these forums. Can you share it?


----------



## Blameless

RBLXXXVI said:


> So I fixed most of the issues I had with my 5800X3D and just done another pre CO Tune. My outcomes have improved, though I notice that the Clock Frequency has some quite substantial dips, is this something to be concerned about? Old Bench on top, new below. Could the dips in the CPU frequency be due to the GPU not keeping up with the CPU? Thanks.
> 
> OLD BENCH
> View attachment 2561261
> 
> 
> Today Bench:
> View attachment 2561264


CPU-Z single core score suggests something wrong with boost. COs could be unstable, or the part could be starting to throttle due to temps. GPU clock should be pegged at whatever the GPU's power limit can hold...there is no way a properly functioning 5800X3D should be the limiting factor here.

_Edit--_ this is what I see in 3DMark:



















GPU utilization and clocks mostly maxed out. Most one or two core loads boosting to and holding ~4.55GHz. More heavily threaded loads mostly pegged at 4.45GHz.


----------



## tcclaviger

xProlific said:


> Max I am seeing is 44.503 on an Asus Dark Hero, Bios 4201, AGESA 1207. Wondering if there is any bios settings that may be preventing me from seeing 45.5.
> View attachment 2561375


Completely stock it should be hitting max speed for 1t loads, full auto Asus bios. Reflashing isn't a bad idea. Beyond that, windows power config or background tasks/services are the only things I can think that would cause this 44.5 issue. Chipsets driver installed? GeForce experience running?

Asus software, Corsair Software, and any windows sync activity can all stop it from hitting peak.


----------



## hotlookman

Hi just got mine 5800x3d , any advise on ram oc ? Ive got 4x8gb balistix sport lt 3200mhz cl 16 and b450 aorus elite . By the way , does everyone got the stepping 2 in cpuz ? Mine is 2209.
Ps in screenshots there is timings which i was using with previous ryzen 5600x .


----------



## xProlific

tcclaviger said:


> Completely stock it should be hitting max speed for 1t loads, full auto Asus bios. Reflashing isn't a bad idea. Beyond that, windows power config or background tasks/services are the only things I can think that would cause this 44.5 issue. Chipsets driver installed? GeForce experience running?
> 
> Asus software, Corsair Software, and any windows sync activity can all stop it from hitting peak.


My windows install is very clean, the only I have open is hw monitor and cpu-z to bench single core. Chipset drivers are installed, GeForce experience is not installed.

Since installing the chip I thought my cinnebench scores were strangely low 14,000 at flat and so maybe a boosting issue may be factoring into that.

I’ll try reinstalling the bios and testing stock to see if there is still an issue.


----------



## tcclaviger

It is odd, a few people have run into the issue. 

The other things that can cause it are too aggressive CO, offset voltage, manual voltage, PBO enabled, really high SOC power draw, fmax enhancer enabled, performance bias, heat, etc. Asus boards have a lot of options many of which degrade performance outside specific scenarios.

Wish I could point you to the single thing responsible but just too many possibilities.


----------



## BHS1975

tcclaviger said:


> It is odd, a few people have run into the issue.
> 
> The other things that can cause it are too aggressive CO, offset voltage, manual voltage, PBO enabled, really high SOC power draw, fmax enhancer enabled, performance bias, heat, etc. Asus boards have a lot of options many of which degrade performance outside specific scenarios.
> 
> Wish I could point you to the single thing responsible but just too many possibilities.


I had to set vcore back to auto to get the boost to hold at 4550 on 1t in 3D mark CPU profile and the CO was still -30.


----------



## xProlific

Okay so I flashed back to previous bios 4006- could not boost to 45.5 with everything at stock. Flashed back to the current bios 4201- could not boost to 45.5 at stock. Imported my bios settings for 4201 and manually set some of the duplicate bios settings which I had not set before and I am now boosting to 45.5. Makes no sense but I'll take it, I am now getting almost 500 more pts in CBr23.









Not sure which duplicate setting fixed it. The settings I toggled from Auto to manual are Power Down Enable, Gear Down Mode, CMD2T, CAD BUS Timings/ Strengths/Configuration.

EDIT: Actually I think I found the true issue preventing me from boosting to 45.5 being hidusbf. I had it setup to overclock a playsation controller polling rate to 1000 which actually setts a true polling rate of 8k. I scaled back to a 250 which is equates to a true polling rate of 1000 and the issue is now fixed.


----------



## tcclaviger

Nice  I wish it made sense Prolific, really do. Another person corrected it as well with a reflash. Just
*¯\(ツ)/¯*

----------------------------------------------------------------

LLC 3, 1.26vcore manual 54:3 memory divider @ 106.4bclk

got bored of torturing my new GPU and did a thing (PS: These little teeth on 2t and 1t are what I mean with thread hand off events):









and another thing:


----------



## xProlific

tcclaviger said:


> Nice  I wish it made sense Prolific, really do. Another person corrected it as well with a reflash. Just
> *¯\(ツ)/¯*


Improved my Aida Latencies as well, I guess they were bugged before...

After Fix:









Before:


----------



## LtMatt

OCmember said:


> View attachment 2561405


Ah yes I've been following that, It helped a little bit in getting 3800Mhz CL14 2T stable.


----------



## ossimc

So i got some new RAM puppies to play with: gskill 4400cl17 GTRS





























this setting is new testing. 14-8-15-14 with same subs and 1.5v is 9h karhu stable. havent tested anything else yet though.

ocf i was trying trying higher ram and fclk but anything above 3800 gives me WHEA errors. any idea what i could change to get highjer fclk or am i pretty much limited by X470 chipset?
*@jonRock1992 *you are not alone. i myself experience higher mouse "lag". before i had a 5900x boosting 4,8 ghz in games and same aida64 latency results (~56ns). So the mouse feel must be connetcted to boost clocks or cache amount (or both). Its really the only thing which makes me wanne go back the old zen3 or try Intel after 6y of Ryzen


----------



## LtMatt

ossimc said:


> So i got some new RAM puppies to play with: gskill 4400cl17 GTRS
> View attachment 2561462
> View attachment 2561463
> View attachment 2561464
> View attachment 2561471
> 
> this setting is new testing. 14-8-15-14 with same subs and 1.5v is 9h karhu stable. havent tested anything else yet though.
> 
> ocf i was trying trying higher ram and fclk but anything above 3800 gives me WHEA errors. any idea what i could change to get highjer fclk or am i pretty much limited by X470 chipset?
> *@jonRock1992 *you are not alone. i myself experience higher mouse "lag". before i had a 5900x boosting 4,8 ghz in games and same aida64 latency results (~56ns). So the mouse feel must be connetcted to boost clocks or cache amount (or both). Its really the only thing which makes me wanne go back the old zen3 or try Intel after 6y of Ryzen


I have the exact same kit as you. Can you try running TM5 10 passes of 1usmus profile to see if the above is stable please?


----------



## reantum

[


ossimc said:


> So i got some new RAM puppies to play with: gskill 4400cl17 GTRS
> View attachment 2561462
> View attachment 2561463
> View attachment 2561464
> View attachment 2561471
> 
> this setting is new testing. 14-8-15-14 with same subs and 1.5v is 9h karhu stable. havent tested anything else yet though.
> 
> ocf i was trying trying higher ram and fclk but anything above 3800 gives me WHEA errors. any idea what i could change to get highjer fclk or am i pretty much limited by X470 chipset?
> *@jonRock1992 *you are not alone. i myself experience higher mouse "lag". before i had a 5900x boosting 4,8 ghz in games and same aida64 latency results (~56ns). So the mouse feel must be connetcted to boost clocks or cache amount (or both). Its really the only thing which makes me wanne go back the old zen3 or try Intel after 6y of Ryzen


First Aida test 1.510v









Second 1,550v

















Same timings and settings but i get only 64.5ns. What's the problem idk

Edit1: When i'm going to give flck 1,933 bios gives me 1,900. There's a problem with Unify. If i 102 blck, i've to increase my flck too.


----------



## Nighthog

reantum said:


> [
> 
> First Aida test 1.510v
> 
> 
> Second 1,550v
> 
> 
> 
> Same timings and settings but i get only 64.5ns. What's the problem idk
> 
> Edit1: When i'm going to give flck 1,933 bios gives me 1,900. There's a problem with Unify. If i 102 blck, i've to increase my flck too.


You need to disable *TSME* I think.


----------



## reantum

Nighthog said:


> You need to disable *TSME* I think.


07 Bios Code error:/ when i set 102 blck. pbo disabled. 1,900mhz.

@tcclaviger May I have your bios settings if its possible? Especially, PBO and Core Performance Boost. I am going to use yours ram overclock settings. We have same ram kit.


----------



## hotlookman

Hi , is that ok results for stock 5800x3d with ram oc ?
On my previous r5 5600x ive had 1571 single core at r23 cinebench (
Ive put fclk at 1900 to maintain 3800 ram speed by the way.


----------



## tcclaviger

Looks within scope of normal for a 5800X3D. Most benchmark scores will be lower, it's the nature of X3D, in game performance will be superior.


----------



## hotlookman

Thanks for answer . Also as i understand , all 5800x3d's comes with b2 stepping right ?


----------



## hotlookman

Does it makes sense to do just curve optimizer ( all core or per core ) in ryzen master without pbo enabled ? To get lower temps with about same fps in games .
Ps asking these because it helped mine 5600x to gets better scores with lower temps.


----------



## Taraquin

hotlookman said:


> Does it makes sense to do just curve optimizer ( all core or per core ) in ryzen master without pbo enabled ? To get lower temps with about same fps in games .
> Ps asking these because it helped mine 5600x to gets better scores with lower temps.


Yes, helps temps and may improve allcore boost


----------



## MarlowXim

For anyone who has a MSI Unify B550 for Bclk overcloking. How does it compare to thr MSI X570 Unif? I think both boards have an external clock generator. Trying to decide which one to get. I couldn't get far with the Tomahawk X570. 100.8 bclk was as far as it would go.


----------



## yzonker

Well I guess I'll just have to live with the PR loss. TS/TSE seem to be as good, just PR takes a 50-100pt hit for some reason. I was struggling to get down to quite as low of temps today with the dew point, but within 1-2C. I think I could close the gap a bit with more effort and lower DP, but I got tired of messing with it. Same result as my 3090 more or less.

5800x









I scored 15 937 in Port Royal


AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com





5800x3d









I scored 15 824 in Port Royal


AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## tcclaviger

Nice work with the Ampere Titan-Junior there 



hotlookman said:


> Does it makes sense to do just curve optimizer ( all core or per core ) in ryzen master without pbo enabled ? To get lower temps with about same fps in games .
> Ps asking these because it helped mine 5600x to gets better scores with lower temps.


Yes it helps, drops temps, which increases speeds without changing anything else. Forget PBO exists, it does nothing good whatsoever for X3D.


----------



## jonRock1992

I don't know about you guys but enabling preferred cores made my cpu-z 1T scores higher and consistent. Think I'll leave this on for now.


----------



## bmagnien

jonRock1992 said:


> I don't know about you guys but enabling preferred cores made my cpu-z 1T scores higher and consistent. Think I'll leave this on for now.


CPUZ 1t always uses core0 unless you use processlasso or something to force affinity elsewhere. Interesting that changing preferred core setting would have any meaningful difference on core0 specifically. Did your 3DMark 8t score suffer at all?


----------



## tcclaviger

CPUz is a misleading tool for that reason.

R23 or 3dmark 1t CPU test are much better gauges of actual 1t performance.

That said, disabled/enabled is a minor tweak nothing for X3D and not a huge deal. The more cooling is a constraint the more enabling will improve 1t performance as the best cores will be the least heat impacted with their superior volt/freq relationship.


----------



## yzonker

tcclaviger said:


> Nice work with the Ampere Titan-Junior there


I would really like to understand why PR doesn't perform as well though. I was able to run the same VF curve that time, just with 100 less on the mem which isn't enough to explain the 100pt difference. Found anything that might explain it or might close the gap?


----------



## tcclaviger

The effects I've seen are most pronounced in Unigine Superposition 1080ex comparing my 5950 to x3d runs. X3D cannot catch 5950 with the same GPU config, about a 1% defecit.

90% of the run is identical looking at the graphs, but, there are areas where raw clock speed and/or memory write bandwidth are necessary, and the x3d falls 10fps or so behind in those areas, in superposition it's the low dip sections. PR and Superposition are super CPU light so, it's certainly not the core count.

Best guess is it's scene loading portions as it's swapping assets in the fade to/from black sections. For PR, you could take the FPS graphs, trace them and normalize them to a new graph background to spot the areas of reduced performance, I'd bet it's the same as superposition.


----------



## hotlookman

Dont know why , but i aint got curve optimizer option in ryzen master no more . Ive had it with 5600x but not with 5800x3d


----------



## Blameless

I've noticed some thread dispatcher latency weirdness on my ASRock B550 Phantom Gaming ITX/ax + 5800X3D combo that I'm trying to isolate without having to pull the CPU or flash different firmware...which I'll do as a last resort.









The other systems I've checked (my 3950X and some older Intel setups) all have peak dispatch level latencies in the 40-50 microsecond range. This is on one core with the Intel setups, but on every core of the worst CCX on my 3950X system (total latency is extremely similar to the 5800X3D, it's just better distributed).

I've tried every firmware and OS setting I can think of to reduce or distribute the observed latency, to no appreciable effect.

Anyone else able to run LatencyMon's In Depth Latency Test and see if they see anything similar in the DISPATCH_LEVEL test? I'm not sure if these tests are in the newest version; you may need to use 6.71/6.70 if they aren't.



hotlookman said:


> Dont know why , but i aint got curve optimizer option in ryzen master no more . Ive had it with 5600x but not with 5800x3d


This is normal. Curves are hidden by default in most firmware and in Ryzen Master on the 5800X3D.

Most people here are using PJVol's software utility, or manually editing saved NVRAM profiles.


----------



## RedF

No issues.


----------



## faramir4598

Guys i got some info what is new to me, apologize if already mentioned here.
Apparently you lost SMT on/off option in bios with this cpu. Can you confirm?


----------



## RedF

faramir4598 said:


> Guys i got some info what is new to me, apologize if already mentioned here.
> Apparently you lost SMT on/off option in bios with this cpu. Can you confirm?


No the option is still there.


----------



## faramir4598

Ok, good to hear it. So it is a bug.
I got MSI B550 UNIFY-X and SMT option is missing.
Any unify-x + 5800x3d combo owner here?


----------



## reantum

faramir4598 said:


> Ok, good to hear it. So it is a bug.
> I got MSI B550 UNIFY-X and SMT option is missing.
> Any unify-x + 5800x3d combo owner here?


Na:/ x570 unify here. go bios and ctrl+f type smt


----------



## faramir4598

@reantum
Yea i am aware of this.
But even if you do that via CTRL+F search and bios WILL save it, under windows in device manager you still get 16 threads. so it does not work.
Please push MSI support to admit it and fix the bug.
Now I believe its bug on MSI part.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/MSI_Gaming/comments/uvut4v









MSI Member Center







account.msi.com


----------



## reantum

faramir4598 said:


> @reantum
> Yea i am aware of this.
> But even if you do that via CTRL+F search and bios WILL save it, under windows in device manager you still get 16 threads. so it does not work.
> Please push MSI support to admit it and fix the bug.
> Now I believe its bug on MSI part.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/MSI_Gaming/comments/uvut4v
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MSI Member Center
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> account.msi.com


There's a lot of bugs on MSI motherboards! Especially when you set FLCK 1,900 you'll going to get "F7" debug code. When you set 1,933 everything ok! just release full version 1.2.0.7. I am going to buy X570-E. I'm done with MSI x570 unify.


----------



## faramir4598

Yea i realize that..
@buildzoid praised that board to sky. Specially RAM OC. Compare to TUF gaming B550 bios menus are half size of numbers...


----------



## reantum

Test 1:









Test2:










Thanks for everything! @Bloax


----------



## Luggage

reantum said:


> Test 1:
> View attachment 2561638
> 
> 
> Test2:
> 
> View attachment 2561639
> 
> 
> Thanks for everything! @Bloax


What’s up with memory latency?


----------



## reantum

Luggage said:


> What’s up with memory latency?


I don’t know :/ I tried it 20 times and gave almost the same results. I turned off the computer but the result didn’t change.


----------



## tcclaviger

It may be an AIDA issue with that version, not sure but...

In my experience the Write is an indication of something being amiss in those two tests. MCLK*16 = what write should be, if Write < MCLK*16 -2, something isn't happy.

Write for 2000 even should be 32000.

I've had Write return MCLK*17, which is impossible, clear indicator of FCLK induced instability. Things go wonky with measurement of latency in AIDA when the result is a retransmission or an error instead of a result.

See below, if you multiply the mclk by 16 you get returned write -1 or -2.














This is a perfect example of using WHEA Silencer when it shouldn't be used to hide actual issues. You can probably stabilize 2000 with some voltage adjustments and get everything to be as it should.


----------



## MrHoof

Blameless said:


> I've noticed some thread dispatcher latency weirdness on my ASRock B550 Phantom Gaming ITX/ax + 5800X3D combo that I'm trying to isolate without having to pull the CPU or flash different firmware...which I'll do as a last resort.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other systems I've checked (my 3950X and some older Intel setups) all have peak dispatch level latencies in the 40-50 microsecond range. This is on one core with the Intel setups, but on every core of the worst CCX on my 3950X system (total latency is extremely similar to the 5800X3D, it's just better distributed).
> 
> I've tried every firmware and OS setting I can think of to reduce or distribute the observed latency, to no appreciable effect.
> 
> Anyone else able to run LatencyMon's In Depth Latency Test and see if they see anything similar in the DISPATCH_LEVEL test? I'm not sure if these tests are in the newest version; you may need to use 6.71/6.70 if they aren't.
> 
> 
> 
> This is normal. Curves are hidden by default in most firmware and in Ryzen Master on the 5800X3D.
> 
> Most people here are using PJVol's software utility, or manually editing saved NVRAM profiles.


Dunno in wich situation you tested. So Here two screenshots one idle one browsing web.


Spoiler: Idle no mouse movement after start

















Spoiler: Browsing forum/light load

















RedF said:


> No issues.
> View attachment 2561623
> View attachment 2561623


Wrong test .


----------



## tcclaviger

Don't have Latencymon license so can't run IDLT for you, sorry.


----------



## MrHoof

This is the Home version its free its included in version 6.7 I also downloaded 7.12 first and wonderd why its not there.


----------



## tcclaviger

Where did you find the old version?

All the old version results I'm finding are super sketchy urls.


----------



## MrHoof

Here from this german site. 
LatencyMon | heise Download
VirusTotal - File - eb582cdc4aedbe4626a90f3170040bcac4012d8aa354596b949a0fc6115dc802


----------



## RedF




----------



## tcclaviger

Idle Mouse:
CPPC Preferred Cores Enabled







CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled









Mouse Moving:
CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled


----------



## domdtxdissar

K what are we looking at here ?
(1min runs)


----------



## Blameless

MrHoof said:


> Dunno in wich situation you tested. So Here two screenshots one idle one browsing web.


Mine peaks at 170-192 on CPU 0 almost irrespective of what the system is doing.

I was able to reduce the latency on every other core by half (from 3+ to 1.2-1.6), but nothing seems to alter the relatively high dispatch latency on core 0.



domdtxdissar said:


> K what are we looking at here ?


I'm mostly looking at the tight loop dispatch latency on CPU 0, trying to isolate the cause of the figure I'm seeing on my 5800X3D setup.

Thought it might be firmware related, but I'm thinking it's a driver thing now.


----------



## MrHoof

How did you reduce the latency of the other cores noticed yours and doms is like half of us others.


----------



## Blameless

MrHoof said:


> How did you reduce the latency of the other cores noticed yours and doms is like half of us others.


Biggest influence I saw on the cores other than 0 were overly aggressive driver interrupt priorities, but leaving dynamic tick enabled, enabling DF c-states, or using a fixed SoC P-state other than P1, also seemed to have a negative impact. I don't imagine it's a meaningful difference though.


----------



## tcclaviger

I have no idea what it's for, beyond knowing it's something to do with audio recording to avoid pops clicks and drop outs.

Maybe it has something to do with the perceived input latency increase?



MrHoof said:


> How did you reduce the latency of the other cores noticed yours and doms is like half of us others.


From what Ive read windows power plan settings can massively impact it due to sleep states. No idea how mine got set back to balanced...it was on high last I touched it.


----------



## jonRock1992

Reinstalling Win10 brought my memory latency down a little bit, and it boosted my multi-thread cpu-z score by around 100 points.


----------



## tcclaviger

It's official lads and ladies, 5800X3D+6950XT has arrived in various spots on the 3DMark HoF 

Scores will keep climbing over the next few days before the 5950x comes home to set some real overall scores 



Spoiler: Links



FS - #61 I scored 48 100 in Fire Strike
FSE- #87 I scored 31 316 in Fire Strike Extreme
FSU - #21 I scored 17 012 in Fire Strike Ultra
TSE-GFX #68 I scored 10 636 in Time Spy Extreme
TS-GFC #45 I scored 22 683 in Time Spy



PS: Port Royal topped out at a 12671 thus far, a step down from my Ampere, but still a step up from my heavily OCd 2080ti.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Dusting off my old OCN account to see if i can get some help here... Would it make more sense to run a locked clock with a lower voltage to try and bring temps down or cap the PPT limit? I only use this chip for gaming - not really interested in benchmarks, but i'm seeing temps creep up to 80c when playing some games (GTA5). 

Note: im playing at 4K (_i got this chip to stretch out my existing AM4 board afew more years_) which is maxing out my 3080 that is dumping 300w of heat into the case so im trying to find a way to lower the X3D heat while not impacting performance. AMD locking us out of curve optimize negative offsets kinda sucks ... when i briefly bought a 5800x, i managed to bring heat down and increase performance with that.


----------



## tcclaviger

You can't lock it at 1 speed. You can use CO to fix it though, just not via bios. Use PBOtool post#13 to find ideal CO values, use the other tool posted by Veii to flash them into hidden bios option so they apply at boot.


----------



## faramir4598

MEG B550 UNIFY-X
Unable to turn off SMT mode with 5800x3d
Update:
bios with agesa 1206c no dice
Flash atm last bios (agesa 1207)
turn it off/on via CTRL+F search menu with full >save bios, restart after that< cycle. ie
turn it off
save & restart
turn it on
save & restart
turn it off
save & restart

Now its working, you can check in device manager, but still SMT mode should be accesible via normal bios menu, not hidden in search menu only.


----------



## th3illusiveman

tcclaviger said:


> You can't lock it at 1 speed. You can use CO to fix it though, just not via bios. Use PBOtool post#13 to find ideal CO values, use the other tool posted by Veii to flash them into hidden bios option so they apply at boot.


Wow, people always find a way to OC it seems lol.

Do you think there is a chance AMD will officially support some limited CO tweaks since people appear to have already opened the gate?


----------



## Nighthog

th3illusiveman said:


> Wow, people always find a way to OC it seems lol.
> 
> Do you think there is a chance AMD will officially support some limited CO tweaks since people appear to have already opened the gate?


If going by what AMD has done in the past is to close and lock down this loophole in the future.
They always go the way of lockdowns and patch away things people find to exploit.


----------



## Audioboxer

MrHoof said:


> Here from this german site.
> LatencyMon | heise Download
> VirusTotal - File - eb582cdc4aedbe4626a90f3170040bcac4012d8aa354596b949a0fc6115dc802


This URL has changed to 6.71 lol. Anyone else got 6.70?


----------



## ossimc

whats the deal with disableing SMT?
has anyone done some deep dive testing with X3D in ACTUAL games?

somewhere i read how one could set PBO2 tuner settings to start with windows. if someone knows pls let me know


----------



## yzonker

tcclaviger said:


> It's official lads and ladies, 5800X3D+6950XT has arrived in various spots on the 3DMark HoF
> 
> Scores will keep climbing over the next few days before the 5950x comes home to set some real overall scores
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Links
> 
> 
> 
> FS - #61 I scored 48 100 in Fire Strike
> FSE- #87 I scored 31 316 in Fire Strike Extreme
> FSU - #21 I scored 17 012 in Fire Strike Ultra
> TSE-GFX #68 I scored 10 636 in Time Spy Extreme
> TS-GFC #45 I scored 22 683 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> 
> PS: Port Royal topped out at a 12671 thus far, a step down from my Ampere, but still a step up from my heavily OCd 2080ti.


It'll be interesting to see if your graphics scores improve with the 5950x. Unless you or someone else has already proven otherwise, there's at least a chance the 6950xt will work better with the 5800x3D than the NVIDIA cards.


----------



## RedF

ossimc said:


> whats the deal with disableing SMT?
> has anyone done some deep dive testing with X3D in ACTUAL games?
> 
> somewhere i read how one could set PBO2 tuner settings to start with windows. if someone knows pls let me know


With the Win
Task Scheduler


----------



## Voltage45

ossimc said:


> whats the deal with disableing SMT?
> has anyone done some deep dive testing with X3D in ACTUAL games?
> 
> somewhere i read how one could set PBO2 tuner settings to start with windows. if someone knows pls let me know


i've tried RDR2 but my 2080 super is weak.sorry it's Turkish but i wanna show 1080 lowest to 2k highest for cpu bottleneck and there is none.SMT disable in pictures.










5800x3D ile olmayan işlemci darboğazı faktörü | DonanımHaber Forum


konunun bu işlemci ile tek alakası göstereceğim oyunda işlemci darboğazı yaptırmayacağına inandığım içindir yoksa konu tamamen herkesin ağzına sakız o




forum.donanimhaber.com


----------



## OCmember

Blameless said:


> _... but dynamic tick enabled, enabling DF c-states, or using a fixed SoC P-state other than P1_, also seemed to have a negative impact


What do you normally run these settings at? And isn't SoC P-state P0 "Highest-Performing P-state" according to the AMD Performance tuning guide by AMD


----------



## ossimc

So I'm trying to get ram 4000mhz 1:1 on my x470 board and I finaly got it to post to windows.

What voltage is probably to low when ich hear crackling sounds?


----------



## RedF

ossimc said:


> So I'm trying to get ram 4000mhz 1:1 on my x470 board and I finaly got it to post to windows.
> 
> What voltage is probably to low when ich hear crackling sounds?


CCD/IOD


----------



## Sparrow1408

Just finish a new round of testing with 1.2.0.7 and everything looks stable and GTG. Wish 2000 1:1:1 didn't spit WHEA errors.

Also -10 All Core offset was about all I could do using Y-Cruncher as a stress tester. Starting to believe I have an average, to below average, sample :/


----------



## jonRock1992

Any tips for lowering input latency with the 5800X3D? I'm getting nowhere with it 😢 Considering returning it and using my 5800X again.


----------



## Teussi

RedF said:


> With the Win
> Task Scheduler


Is it possible to link the picture of the forum here? Requires membership and cannot understand germany


----------



## Sparrow1408

jonRock1992 said:


> Any tips for lowering input latency with the 5800X3D? I'm getting nowhere with it 😢 Considering returning it and using my 5800X again.


Tighten Ram Timings and make sure your voltages are good. 

My system is snappy and very responsive. Upgraded from a 3600 though so it was more then just adding 3D cache to the equation.


----------



## reantum

jonRock1992 said:


> Any tips for lowering input latency with the 5800X3D? I'm getting nowhere with it 😢 Considering returning it and using my 5800X again.


Can you try one of this? https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dsu9K1Nt_7apHBdiy0MWVPcYjf6nOlr9CtkkfN78tSo/htmlview


----------



## MrHoof

Audioboxer said:


> This URL has changed to 6.71 lol. Anyone else got 6.70?


Thats the correct link. Even tho its 6.71 the in depth test is 6.7.


----------



## ocisdead

Sparrow1408 said:


> Tighten Ram Timings and make sure your voltages are good.
> 
> My system is snappy and very responsive. Upgraded from a 3600 though so it was more then just adding 3D cache to the equation.


Anyone else want to comment on the subject of ram timings effecting total system input lag


----------



## tcclaviger

\o/ <does a little dance>


Spoiler: Number10


----------



## ossimc

jonRock1992 said:


> Any tips for lowering input latency with the 5800X3D? I'm getting nowhere with it 😢 Considering returning it and using my 5800X again.


I thinking about returning it too. It's such a pitty. This CPU is so great in terms of powerdraw to performance.


----------



## LtMatt

jonRock1992 said:


> Any tips for lowering input latency with the 5800X3D? I'm getting nowhere with it 😢 Considering returning it and using my 5800X again.


What do you mean lowering input latency?


----------



## ossimc

What's not to understand? The mouse feels less snappy compared to 5000er without 3D cache. Not by much but enough make a competitive gamer grumpy...thus I'm not 100% convinced of the X3D. To be fair...i probably wouldn't have noticed it if it wasn't for warzone rebirth, one of the most hectic competitive Shooter there is.


----------



## Blameless

OCmember said:


> What do you normally run these settings at? And isn't SoC P-state P0 "Highest-Performing P-state" according to the AMD Performance tuning guide by AMD


The only setting that was different from my go to settings is disabledynamictick = yes (via bcdedit). I was assuming this would have a small negative impact on performance elsewhere, due to more frequently waking the CPU from, or preventing it from entering, deeper C-states (especially since I also run DistributeTimers, which has some advantages in some heavy loads, especially VM related ones, in my experience), but I was not able to bench any negatives anywhere, nor did I notice a difference in the amount of time spent in C6.

A while back I tested APBDIS = 0 again at Veii's recommendation, but didn't like the result with the 5800X3D. However, his suggestion of using SoC P1 (in conjunction with ABPDIS = 1) did seem to provide slight benefits, with no downsides that I have noticed.


----------



## tcclaviger

So I have noticed scenarios where the system feels super snappy and responsive and other scenarios where it seems a bit sluggish, despite the sluggish config actually testing better in measurements.

I've never decisively nailed down what exactly leads to one scenario vs the other, only that it is very real. I also noticed this behavior on my 5950x.

I know memory settings, FCLK, SOC settings, and voltage can all influence it. Lately the most prominent of them I've been noticing is voltage. Any time it's a little voltage deficient for the given speed it gets a small touch less snappy, and the only test I've found that consistently reflects the behavior is Y-Cruncher 25m.

If everything is copacetic and snappy I get 0.485 +/-0.005 when running tests back to back over and over with a rare excursion into the mid 0.470s and conversely, sometimes one up around 0.497.

When things feel a little sluggish, I'll still usually get 0.485 typical but the excursions will be up into the 0.520 range with fewer sub 0.480 times. As the voltage to frequency mismatch grows wider, this gets worse and worse.

What this means for non-overclocked 5800X3Ds is validate CO values and negative vcore offsets if you're using them outside benchmarks, via subjective use, if my theory bellow is occurring you'll feel it despite test scores showing better with the false stability.. Too much neg on either can induce the difference. The "false stability" can be for a number of reasons but my suspicion is this scenario:


Spoiler: Theory



Core-Cycler and OCCT load a core hard during testing, so they achieve long term voltage stability over a number of cycles between VRM controller and CPU adjusting. When your PC is sitting idle or activates another core, or any time it races from one p-state to max effective speed, there's a potential voltage deficiency if there's too much offset/-CO, leading to a very brief stretch event, not easily observed in benchmarks, and corrected very quickly as the CPU/VRM negotiate provided voltage to achieve stability again.

In gaming this can manifest as input lag as the CPU juggles events and loads dynamically and the very brief stretches occur over and over. This is why many gamers prefer all core static OC vs dynamic, static OC will never experience the micro-stretch state and maintain consistent input latency.

That's my theory, it fits what I've observed, but I don't have the equipment to measure the stretch events available to confirm or deny.



PS: I've observed this weird input delay with NO voltage manipulation on my 5950x as the Zen 3 is so aggressive at ramping up and down the P-state it can essentially end up fighting itself, ramping down to save power when it should have simply stayed up for another fraction of a second. 

This is another item, nearly impossible to measure objectively, but almost completely mitigated with CPPC Preferred Disabled as the OS/CPU don't need to juggle tasks to desired cores, it just fires the task at whatever core is available.


----------



## jonRock1992

That theory makes sense, but I definitely have more mouse latency with the 5800X3D even at stock settings.


----------



## Sparrow1408

You can always test it.



Input lag measuring tool





HTML/JavaScript mouse input performance tests








Human Benchmark







humanbenchmark.com


----------



## Kashtan

What is best MoBo for OC 5800X3D and cores and memory ? I choose between Evga X570 Dark, Crosshaire VIII Extreme, X570S Unify-X Max. Or one variant is impossible? One mobo for OC of cores with ext clock gen (like a crosshair and Godlike), another mobo with 2 rams for memory like a Evga Dark and Unify-X Max ?


----------



## MrHoof

Spoiler: humanbenchmark














170-175ms avg after having 3 beers and being not the youngest. 5800x3d has no increased input lag compared to a 5800x for me.

edit:


Spoiler: html vsync tester 165hz


----------



## tcclaviger

Kashtan said:


> What is best MoBo for OC 5800X3D and cores and memory ? I choose between Evga X570 Dark, Crosshaire VIII Extreme, X570S Unify-X Max. Or one variant is impossible? One mobo for OC of cores with ext clock gen (like a crosshair and Godlike), another mobo with 2 rams for memory like a Evga Dark and Unify-X Max ?


I would say it depends on what you're doing or planning on doing really. 

C8E has every trick available on AM4, most of which do nothing for X3D, it's highly capable, but not necessary. Any of the crosshair boards will match it for CPU overclock capability for the vast majority of users.

EVGA Dark has most things X3D can use, and in theory(reality? Not sure) better RAM OC. It's a very good board, but I've not seen much about it really. It was my second choice behind C8E and had EVGA had it in stock, I would have bought it when it released.

They're both massive overkill for X3D tbh.


----------



## tcclaviger

Sparrow1408 said:


> You can always test it.
> 
> 
> 
> Input lag measuring tool
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HTML/JavaScript mouse input performance tests
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Human Benchmark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> humanbenchmark.com


1st test I get around 14ms
2nd it's pretty constant at 6.06ms (expected at 165hz screen) with essentially no excursions upwards from there as long as mouse is in motion. When initiating move from stopped mouse, there's a large spike, every time for a brief period then 6.06 as in pic below. It's the visual representation of core going from idle to max speed I'm guessing.







Tested across Chrome, Edge, Opera. They may all be compressing events...

If a human can feel what's in that graph, they should be a sponsored pro gamer. I suspect my system is not doing what is being observed by ossimc.

Out of sheer curiosity I will endeavor to make this worse and see what causes more lag


----------



## LtMatt

ossimc said:


> What's not to understand? The mouse feels less snappy compared to 5000er without 3D cache. Not by much but enough make a competitive gamer grumpy...thus I'm not 100% convinced of the X3D. To be fair...i probably wouldn't have noticed it if it wasn't for warzone rebirth, one of the most hectic competitive Shooter there is.


Hmm. I primarily play Warzone and have not experienced any issue with latency and my 5800X3D (nor with the 5950X I still have) and FPS are crazy high compared to other systems out there when I look at comparisons on the tubes. Up to 581 Peak FPS in Warzone Rebirth with a 5800X3D and a 2.95Ghz 6900 XTXH 1080P - YouTube

Can you try running the Warzone performance test? Basically use the following settings, 1080P resolution, 120 FOV, set all in game image quality options to low/lowest/disabled, except enable Particle High, Bullet Impacts and Sprays enabled, Cache spot/sun shadows on. Then go to the Warzone practice/training area, spawn in and stand still, wait 15-20 seconds and then take a screenshot of whatever your peak FPS are in this spot without moving your character. I get up to 500 in this spot.









Got my highest score in SOTTR with my new timing settings below, (10 pass 1usmusv3 stable) VDIMM 1.520v.

















Wish I could go above 100.8 BCLK as I am sure I could improve my score if that was possible. I am thinking about ditching my ancient sata hard drives and replacing them with something more recent to allow higher BCLK.


----------



## 1ah1

Hi
i have the input lag in my 5800X3D and same thing for my old 5800X the input lag was like an issue but not a big deal for me but after you guys i start to look into it. and i tried to fix it and i did the system now feels a lot faster and snappy.

What i did is i reset the bios and first thing i enabled docp and i lowered my mem default speed from 3800mhz which i was using it for one year to 3600mhz with the stock timings (14-16-16-36 4x8gb) but i changed trfc from 666 to 384, CPPC Enabled and CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled

and save
at first the windows 11 shows the login i immediately clicked accessibility in the right corner never in my AMD life (1.5 year) i sensed the speed before that the icon when i click it was slow. sorry i cant write the right words in English it is not my first language.

Some different i found in the ZenTimings app, the CLDO VDDP it was 1.049 by default it now 0.900 by default

So i dont know which one is the key but i think the mem speed is big deal and that why AMD recommended 3600mhz
Second the voltage for example CLDO VDDP 1.049 to 0.9

I will use 3600mhz i dont care for high numbers and i will try to Tighten Ram Timings more.

btw i was getting 1000fps in cs go but the input lag was bad, so i think FPS is not a right test for input lag


----------



## tcclaviger

100% spot on example of the behavior. 

I'm also starting to suspect memory as the single largest contributing factor. When it's right, as in 100% irrefutably stable, there's a perceptible improvement in response/input lag, though I know of no way to quantity it objectively. 1t GDM/Power Down both off always feels the snappiest for me, even when compared to much faster/lower latency according to Aida benches 2t.

Out of curiosity I set CPU-Z to torture running, all cores. The used the browser latency test. In constant motion times were 6.06 with regular excursions up to 10ms for 1 frame then back to 6.06 repeatedly, fine for the load level.

I've not been able to duplicate the constant high latency, but my suspicion is WHEA spam or suboptimal memory config as the main cause.


----------



## RedF

I think that also bad SOC, VDDP and VDDG voltages lead to more input latency.

Maybe due to error correction?


----------



## bloot

No input lag problem here with the 5800X3D, never.


----------



## TrigrH

I'm yet to notice any lag with my true 1T config.


----------



## Audioboxer

MrHoof said:


> Thats the correct link. Even tho its 6.71 the in depth test is 6.7.


Hmm, couldn't seem to get that in depth test others are showing running version 6.7.0.


----------



## ice445

ossimc said:


> What's not to understand? The mouse feels less snappy compared to 5000er without 3D cache. Not by much but enough make a competitive gamer grumpy...thus I'm not 100% convinced of the X3D. To be fair...i probably wouldn't have noticed it if it wasn't for warzone rebirth, one of the most hectic competitive Shooter there is.


Weird, I've had the opposite experience. Everything feels snappier and smoother than my 5600X by a tick.


----------



## lestatdk

Finally the BIOS with 1.2.0.7 dropped and now I get 4550 on some cores.


----------



## LtMatt

Sata drives removed from my system, think it's time to go full nvme.

Oh look at that, I can now post above 100.8 BCLK. Up to 103 BCLK so far. 

Back to TM5 and Zen Timings we go.


----------



## lestatdk

LtMatt said:


> Sata drives removed from my system, think it's time to go full nvme.
> 
> Oh look at that, I can now post above 100.8 BCLK. Up to 103 BCLK so far.
> 
> Back to TM5 and Zen Timings we go.


I tried putting in 101 BCLK and it just goes straight to BIOS when I boot . Guess that means it's a no go ? Really weird though.


----------



## LtMatt

lestatdk said:


> I tried putting in 101 BCLK and it just goes straight to BIOS when I boot . Guess that means it's a no go ? Really weird though.


That's your sata hard drives floating up to heaven. 

Up to 100.7/100.8 I'm fine. Any higher and the system just hangs after post. Can't enter BIOS, can't do anything but wait, forever for nothing to happen.


----------



## lestatdk

LtMatt said:


> That's your sata hard drives floating up to heaven.
> 
> Up to 100.7/100.8 I'm fine. Any higher and the system just hangs after post. Can't enter BIOS, can't do anything but wait, forever for nothing to happen.


 Ah, OK. I have 2 M2 drives and 4 SSDs. Guess I'll stick to BCLK at 100 then for now


----------



## Sparrow1408

tcclaviger said:


> 100% spot on example of the behavior.
> 
> I'm also starting to suspect memory as the single largest contributing factor. When it's right, as in 100% irrefutably stable, there's a perceptible improvement in response/input lag, though I know of no way to quantity it objectively. 1t GDM/Power Down both off always feels the snappiest for me, even when compared to much faster/lower latency according to Aida benches 2t.
> 
> Out of curiosity I set CPU-Z to torture running, all cores. The used the browser latency test. In constant motion times were 6.06 with regular excursions up to 10ms for 1 frame then back to 6.06 repeatedly, fine for the load level.
> 
> I've not been able to duplicate the constant high latency, but my suspicion is WHEA spam or suboptimal memory config as the main cause.


Ram is complicated and not my expertise. However JEDEC does have documentation for us to try and understand how timings function and effect each other.

DDR4 Jesd79-4b | PDF | Electronics | Computer Hardware (scribd.com)

Pretty sure that link isn't suppose to provide the document as JDEC charges for it: DDR4 SDRAM STANDARD | JEDEC


But, because I like to look at sources and then test I am adding it above. If it's frowned upon in this forum the mods can remove 

Anyway, on page 137


> CKE must remain HIGH for the entire Self-Refresh exit period tXSDLL for proper operation except for Self-Refresh re-entry. Upon exit from Self-Refresh, the DDR4 SDRAM can be put back into Self-Refresh mode or Power down mode after waiting at least tXS period and issuing one refresh command (refresh period of tRFC). Deselect commands must be registered on each positive clock edge during the Self-Refresh exit interval tXS. Low level of ODT pin must be registered on each positive clock edge during tXSDLL when normal mode ( DLL-on ) is set. Under DLL-off mode, asynchronous ODT function might be allowed. _The use of Self-Refresh mode introduces the possibility that an internally timed refresh event can be missed_ when CKE is raised for exit from Self-Refresh mode. Upon exit from Self-Refresh, the DDR4 SDRAM requires a minimum of one extra refresh command before it is put back into Self-Refresh Mode.


So I would believe that the Power Down mode would have an impact and having it disabled would be optimal.

Gear-Down mode is explained here:

JEDEC Standard No. 79-4B Page 81
4.18 Control Gear-down Mode



> This mode is _allowed just during initialization and self refresh exit_. The DRAM defaults in 1/2 rate(1N) clock mode and utilizes a low frequency MRS command followed by a sync pulse to align the proper clock edge for operating the control lines CS_n, CKE and ODT in 1/4rate(2N) mode. For operation in 1/2 rate mode MRS command for geardown or sync pulse are not required. DRAM defaults in 1/2 rate mode


And then it goes into Graphs and a deeper dive into what Geardown mode really does. It's why "even" settings are best. I'm less inclined to believe that 1T vs 2T or GDM on/off makes a major difference as all of these actions are happening in Clock Cycles. Running RAM with tighter timings, a Higher Frequency, and with greater stability _should_ offset any performance penalty GDM would have.

RFC, or the minimum Refresh cycle time, is also something I would believe effects overall system responsiveness/snappiness.

4.26 Refresh Command



> The Refresh command (REF) is used during normal operation of the DDR4 SDRAMs. This command is non persistent, so it must be issued each time a refresh is required. The DDR4 SDRAM requires Refresh cycles at an average periodic interval of tREFI. WhenCS_n, RAS_n/A16 and CAS_n/A15 are held Low and WE_n/A14 and ACT_n are held High at the rising edge of the clock, the chip enters a Refresh cycle. _All banks of the SDRAM must be precharged and idle for a minimum of the precharge time tRP(min) before the Refresh Command can be applied_. The refresh addressing is generated by the internal refresh controller. This makes the address bits “Don’t Care” during a Refresh command. An internal address counter supplies the addresses during the refresh cycle. No control of the external address bus is required once this cycle has started. When the refresh cycle has completed, all banks of the SDRAM will be in the precharged (idle) state. A delay between the Refresh Command and the next valid command, except DES, must be greater than or equal to the minimum Refresh cycle time tRFC(min) as shown in Figure 143. Note that the tRFC timing parameter depends on memory density


So the less time the system spends waiting for a refresh, the better. But if it doesn't wait long enough "bad things" happen. When all of this is handled in nanoseconds... Maybe I'm stretching but the less time the system spends waiting on data the more time it can focus on processing that data and additional user inputs.

As for the CPU, specifically the IOD, voltage I know I F'd up when my mouse/keyboard, that connects through USB with a logitech unifying receiver, stutters or stops working in the bios. I have a Wired Keyboard on stand-by for when everything is totally screwed up and I don't want to clear the CMOS. Whenever that happens it also translates into other system stability issues and hiccups.

When the system was updated to AGESA 1.2.0.7, and I was able to boot at 2100 1:1:1, everything was unoptimized, unstable, and *very* sluggish. FLCK stability should be where one focuses first. Faster FLCK doesn't always equal more better; it's why I haven't bothered with the WHEA suppressor. If the system is throwing errors and it's being ignored then what other issues are lurking?

My completely subjective, non professional, just throwing it out there two cents:

Powerdown Mode = Disabled
GearDown Mode Shouldn't matter or is off set by Tighter timings, higher frequency, greater overall system stability
Tighten Primary Timings = better overall system performance
Lower tFAW (tRRDS=4 tRRDL=4/6 tFAW=16)
Lower tRFC
Make sure CPU voltages aren't to high/low and Verify with y-cruncher, Prime95, and other benchmarks/stress-tests of choice

All of that combined, assuming the system isn't starved for ram and constantly hitting the page file, in a confirmed stable configuration, creates a much snappier, responsive, experience.

Maybe I am misunderstanding the documentation; If so I welcome the chance to be better informed. This is the information/logic I was going on when originally setting up the system with a 3600 and I brought that forward for upgrading the 5800X3D. Now that Northbridge/Southbridge functionality is baked into the CPU...


I'm about to ramble. Take this for what it's worth from a random guy on the internet.


----------



## Voltage45

1ah1 said:


> Hi
> i have the input lag in my 5800X3D and same thing for my old 5800X the input lag was like an issue but not a big deal for me but after you guys i start to look into it. and i tried to fix it and i did the system now feels a lot faster and snappy.
> 
> What i did is i reset the bios and first thing i enabled docp and i lowered my mem default speed from 3800mhz which i was using it for one year to 3600mhz with the stock timings (14-16-16-36 4x8gb) but i changed trfc from 666 to 384, CPPC Enabled and CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled
> 
> and save
> at first the windows 11 shows the login i immediately clicked accessibility in the right corner never in my AMD life (1.5 year) i sensed the speed before that the icon when i click it was slow. sorry i cant write the right words in English it is not my first language.
> 
> Some different i found in the ZenTimings app, the CLDO VDDP it was 1.049 by default it now 0.900 by default
> 
> So i dont know which one is the key but i think the mem speed is big deal and that why AMD recommended 3600mhz
> Second the voltage for example CLDO VDDP 1.049 to 0.9
> 
> I will use 3600mhz i dont care for high numbers and i will try to Tighten Ram Timings more.
> 
> btw i was getting 1000fps in cs go but the input lag was bad, so i think FPS is not a right test for input lag


hi, how can i test it?what is CLDO VDDP?


----------



## ossimc

Ok i tested Latencymon indepth too: First pic is just after 9h error free testing with karhu and my 3800cl14 tight subs
Second pic is DEFAULT bios settings except CPPC enable/pref cores diabled. its JEDEC ram speeds and timings. In windows IDLE(a quiet messy one but nothing running in the background)
Third pic. same IDLE when i just wait a few seconds.

I honestly dont know what to make of that

the Last one is showing performance on frikin JEDEC speeds vs. 3800cl14. makes me almost feel dumb buying a 280€ b-die kit^^ frametimes are better with tune though
in terms of mouse lag feel im not sure if i feel a difference. maybe i already got used to the less snappy


----------



## LtMatt

ossimc said:


> Ok i tested Latencymon indepth too: First pic is just after 9h error free testing with karhu and my 3800cl14 tight subs
> Second pic is DEFAULT bios settings except CPPC enable/pref cores diabled. its JEDEC ram speeds and timings. In windows IDLE(a quiet messy one but nothing running in the background)
> Third pic. same IDLE when i just wait a few seconds.
> 
> I honestly dont know what to make of that
> 
> the Last one is showing performance on frikin JEDEC speeds vs. 3800cl14. makes me almost feel dumb buying a 280€ b-die kit^^ frametimes are better with tune though
> in terms of mouse lag feel im not sure if i feel a difference. maybe i already got used to the less snappy
> 
> View attachment 2561878
> View attachment 2561879
> View attachment 2561880
> View attachment 2561881
> View attachment 2561882


Looks like you have some sort of local system issue going on to me. How is your OS looking? Care to share a MSINFO32 and a DXDIAG report with us?

Have you tried updating bios to Ageesa 1.2.0.7, powerflush and clear cmos after bios update has fully completed, use bios default settings no memory changes, reinstall windows 10/11 using Windows the latest windows installation media/build. In that scenario do you still have the issue?

I downloaded LatencyMon but I guess the free version does not have access to the features you are using. This was taken with a browser window open with 25 tabs and Warzone update downloading via battle.net app.


----------



## 1ah1

ossimc said:


> the Last one is showing performance on frikin JEDEC speeds vs. 3800cl14. makes me almost feel dumb buying a 280€ b-die kit^^ frametimes are better with tune though
> in terms of mouse lag feel im not sure if i feel a difference. maybe i already got used to the less snappy


Yep me too i paid around 300$ for NEO 3800c14 4x8gb and i hate that i willnt run them in full speed.
but good i did fix this BS issue.


----------



## ossimc

@*LtMatt *
you need to open the "in depth test"
well, ASUS still havent released 1207 for the crosshair hero VII. some other x470 board already have it. kinda pisses me off.i could get my hands on a MSI B550 unify-X for 150€. worth it? (also considering i get pci_3 4.0 for future RTX4000 series)

this is with a trizillion tabs open, yt video and a download in chrome








i will try the same test on a fresher win. If i am realy bored i may do a fresh install


----------



## LtMatt

ossimc said:


> @*LtMatt *
> you need to open the "in depth test"
> well, ASUS still havent released 1207 for the crosshair hero VII. some other x470 board already have it. kinda pisses me off.i could get my hands on a MSI B550 unify-X for 150€. worth it? (also considering i get pci_3 4.0 for future RTX4000 series)
> 
> i will try the same test on a fresher win. If i am realy bored i may do a fresh install


Could maybe be a BIOS issue then. 

I checked that option but it''s greyed out. Am I missing something?


----------



## ossimc

look for IDLT.exe in your installation folder


----------



## tcclaviger

Definitely something odd going on ossmic, you're perception is correct there is drastically more latency present than should be.

I think you've demonstrated the issue lies in your windows installation or a hardware/bios fault causing abnormal behavior.

I suggest a fresh installation, set to high performance power plan, install AMD chipsets driver, and test before installing anything else you normally install to verify it is corrected. From there test periodically while loading up typical apps and verify none of them are causing it.

The issue you're observing isn't a CPU specific issue, there is something occuring loading your CPU with a high priority task periodically.

I had to do this to isolate some rogue software that was causing a similar issue back on Zen+ keeping CPU always in P0 state.

If the issue persists after reinstallation and testing high performance power plan with only AMD chipsets driver, you have a fault board, bios, or CPU imho.


----------



## ocisdead

in-depth test has been moved into the premium version of the software. It was accessible in older free versions.

"LatencyMon Professional offers the following additional features:

In-Depth Latency Test, a tool that allows you to measure SMIs, IPIs and CPU stalls"


----------



## tcclaviger

Here is the same test did just now while it's been powered on for more than a day. First is about 6 seconds after starting test, 2nd was take after leaving it running while starting chrome and logging in and typing this response.



Spoiler: idle

















Spoiler: while using pc















Just occured to me your jedec vs 3800 testing is inconsistent with expectation. I've never, not once, seen jedec keep up with 3800 in 1:1 in any test. Jedec is slow as piss, even Cinebench shows loss in score because of it lol.


----------



## tcclaviger

ocisdead said:


> in-depth test has been moved into the premium version of the software. It was accessible in older free versions.
> 
> "LatencyMon Professional offers the following additional features:
> 
> In-Depth Latency Test, a tool that allows you to measure SMIs, IPIs and CPU stalls"


The link is a few pages back on the german host for 6.71.


----------



## ossimc

@tcclaviger 
But it's the same win installation I've had with the 5900X. I didn't do all those tests with the 59X though. So the only thing that changed was switching to X3D and ofc the needed bios update for it. So it's either the bios or the CPU. And it's not like I experience "real" lag or sound issues or a unresponsive windows. It's really just the tat of slower mouse speed. It's like the in-game mouse sensitivity got turned down a little(which actual stayed the same obviously)

Anyhow. Another change happened before I looked into the latencymon thing. I got a 2x16GB b-die kit from Amz Warehouse. I doubt it's faulty though because since I made many stability tests (only tm5 usmus and 9h of Karhu...no error. I wanted to look into y-cruncher also. Next on the list)

I will however put a fresh win10 on a SSD and only plug in this one as a new reference point.

So the JEDEC test. I don't have the screen of zentimings on hand. It's 2133mhz cl15 with not to shabby subs. That's what my board set when I loaded defaults. As test in warzone I always run along the train tracks in caldera docks(three times for each bench). I made a lot more tests there and can say the results are reliable.


----------



## tcclaviger

I'm not questioning the validity of your testing, to be clear, there's something odd and unexpected occurring is what I'm saying. By starting with fresh windows you eliminate a nearly infinite number of potential causes of the high latency issue, so it's the best place to start. Another owner in this thread had abnormal issues as well until reinstalling windows, and it was corrected.

Why does this happen? Who knows, but it's likely something to do with AMD chipset drivers, windows update and how windows is handling the hardware change.

The 5900x may have been masking the underlying issue due to much higher boost speeds and higher 1t IPC as a result of the frequency. We know something odd is going on with your PC, clearly, and it is not a 5800X3D issue, unless the chip is defective.

The JEDEC vs OC ram result is not representative of how Warzone typically or should behave. Warzone has clear and predictable performance increases as ram speed increases and latency drops. The JEDEC performing better than OC is a symptom of what is causing the underlying CPU latency issue and is an abnormal condition. No conclusions should be made about impact of RAM on warzone in this condition.


----------



## ossimc

What? JEDEC didn't performe better!? Just not as bad as one would think.

Btw. I just did the test on my "fresher" Windows which, for some reason , I haven't used.

Yeah so...none ob that huge spikes in the indepthtest so I guess you had a point. I just played some rounds bf2042 with the piss poor JEDEC...and it's crazy how good it performances. You should tried it yourselfe. Tomorrow I check warzone with the fresh windows


----------



## tcclaviger

Absolutely correct, I misread the graph on ram results sorry about that, I glanced when tired and remembered it wrong. 9% uplift for just memory speeds is pretty solid actually.

Downloading WZ now, I don't play it, but I want it as a diagnosis tool because it responds very well to pretty much everything, like SotTR does.

I'm very glad you are getting expected performance now, it is incredibly frustrating when upgrades net nothing or very little improvement when they should have made a difference!

The one lesson I've learned owning Zen+/Zen2/Zen3/Zen3D is: Never underestimate the capacity of windows to configure things wrong, an infuriating lesson at times.


----------



## OCmember

Is that early version of Latency Mon a safe install/program? I'd like to test In Depth Latency Test


----------



## tcclaviger

Nothing found in the package on virustotal or local scan, should be fine. If it's not fine, it has a zero day that nothing will catch.


----------



## LtMatt

Glad to see a clean os install helped.


----------



## LtMatt

That's a wrap. Tomorrow the aim is to up the BCLK to reach 4000/2000Mhz.
VDIMM 1.520v.









EDIT - Also passed an hour of OCCT Large.


----------



## tcclaviger

LtMatt said:


> That's a wrap. Tomorrow the aim is to up the BCLK to reach 4000/2000Mhz.
> VDIMM 1.520v.
> View attachment 2561926
> 
> 
> EDIT - Also passed an hour of OCCT Large.


Those 10 layer Gskill kits are so incredible for TRFC values, nice work.

Anyone know how to remove heatspreader and led bar from the GTRS kits?


----------



## RBLXXXVI

Any ideas on what might be causing this issue? I have a memory dump - but I've never tried to analyse one of those before (or whether it'd be helpful) To be clear it's only happening under load, I'm using a Corsair SF750 all connectors are firmly in place - using both on the GPU (Vega 64) and one for the 5800X3D max draw underload is 510w (from power draw plug) I'm super frustrated with it!


----------



## tcclaviger

Are you getting hard reboots or just blue screen crashes?


----------



## RBLXXXVI

tcclaviger said:


> Are you getting hard reboots or just blue screen crashes?


Hard reboots. In gaming discord gets distorted, screen goes dark and flickers then reset. I'm guessing it's probably GPU related? I can run a HWINFO log to a file if that'll give some useful data. Curerntly downloading DoX demo to see if I can recreate it with logs.


----------



## lunatik

ossimc said:


> Tomorrow I check warzone with the fresh windows


Like i said earlier, i haven't encountered any "mouse input lag" on 5800x3d. Even just going from 5600x to this one and just re-installing chipset/gpu drivers.

Few suggestions to try for warzone:

C states off, cppc on/off, cppc pref off.

Timer resolution, hpet on/off with some other commands.

I use a separate win 11 pro for gaming, tpm/ftpm disabled (local account - i just hate those damn requests for passwords and sign-ins)

All the unnecessary services disabled/set to manual.

And some other registry changes (keep in mind to make a restore point before changing most of the stuff)

I haven't yet tried and tested everything on 5800x3d, since i gave my 5600x and dr kit to my little sister and new ones are "lost" somewhere for almost 3 weeks already :/

And for that in depth latency test i had 0.6 max for quick 4 min test.

Also use high/ultra power plan.

Edit: For lower input lag / steadier frametimes i use rtss for fps cap (170), 1440p (165hz) low/med settings.


----------



## Kashtan

tcclaviger said:


> I would say it depends on what you're doing or planning on doing really.
> 
> C8E has every trick available on AM4, most of which do nothing for X3D, it's highly capable, but not necessary. Any of the crosshair boards will match it for CPU overclock capability for the vast majority of users.
> 
> EVGA Dark has most things X3D can use, and in theory(reality? Not sure) better RAM OC. It's a very good board, but I've not seen much about it really. It was my second choice behind C8E and had EVGA had it in stock, I would have bought it when it released.
> 
> They're both massive overkill for X3D tbh.


Thanks.
Evga confirmed a ext gen clock for X570 Dark. So, this MB - best my guess.


----------



## Kashtan

LtMatt said:


> View attachment 2561829


This result on Lara bench just a outstanding.
Because here a table with results on this benchmark and better scores on 95% - 217 fps.
Maybe another version of benchmark?








lara BENCH 2.0


Общая таблица CPU CPU name,cpu frequency ,dram,Номер поста,Номер треда,GPU%,CPU game Min,CPU game Max,CPU game Avg,CPU game 95%,CPU render Min,CPU render Max,CPU render Avg,CPU render 95% i9 12900k P+E,P55-E43-ring4500,D5-6400-30-37-37-26-cr1-gear2,5735500,#11,0%,209,365,278,217,408,801,541,422,...




docs.google.com


----------



## zzztopzzz

This is when the hate mail hits: I've been a subscriber to this thread for a while and I was ready to pounce on the X3D. But here's the thing; Why would the frugal gamer want to spend, now, upward to $615 or so, for a chip that's only call to fame is the L3 which only benefits a small portion of the gaming world? The 5900X can now be had for less than $360. 

Before you let go with your hard earned bucks, check this out:









Ryzen 7 5800X3D vs Ryzen 9 5900X: Which Is Better? - Tech4Gamers


Ryzen 7 5800X3D vs Ryzen 9 5900X in-depth CPU Comparison with gaming and application benchmarks to find the best.




tech4gamers.com





I've been doing this for a while and it's real hard not to get caught up in the hype and what all. But what I'm going to do is wait out the new stuff that's just around the corner, and then start the "process" all over.


----------



## tcclaviger

RBLXXXVI said:


> Hard reboots. In gaming discord gets distorted, screen goes dark and flickers then reset. I'm guessing it's probably GPU related? I can run a HWINFO log to a file if that'll give some useful data. Curerntly downloading DoX demo to see if I can recreate it with logs.


Sounds like what my system does when GPU crashes using AMD card.

First thing I'd try is limiting GPU power to below where it is now by 20% and see if it stops. From there if it stops you'll need to isolate cause, PSU can't keep up or GPU is unstable.

Transients or voltage drop can cause PSU triggered reboots without being over capacity.


----------



## Luggage

Kashtan said:


> This result on Lara bench just a outstanding.
> Because here a table with results on this benchmark and better scores on 95% - 217 fps.
> Maybe another version of benchmark?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lara BENCH 2.0
> 
> 
> Общая таблица CPU CPU name,cpu frequency ,dram,Номер поста,Номер треда,GPU%,CPU game Min,CPU game Max,CPU game Avg,CPU game 95%,CPU render Min,CPU render Max,CPU render Avg,CPU render 95% i9 12900k P+E,P55-E43-ring4500,D5-6400-30-37-37-26-cr1-gear2,5735500,#11,0%,209,365,278,217,408,801,541,422,...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docs.google.com


What version and what settings because they all seem low compared to OCN Benchmark Competition: Shadow of the Tomb Raider


----------



## tcclaviger

zzztopzzz said:


> This is when the hate mail hits: I've been a subscriber to this thread for a while and I was ready to pounce on the X3D. But here's the thing; Why would the frugal gamer want to spend, now, upward to $615 or so, for a chip that's only call to fame is the L3 which only benefits a small portion of the gaming world? The 5900X can now be had for less than $360.
> 
> Before you let go with your hard earned bucks, check this out:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ryzen 7 5800X3D vs Ryzen 9 5900X: Which Is Better? - Tech4Gamers
> 
> 
> Ryzen 7 5800X3D vs Ryzen 9 5900X in-depth CPU Comparison with gaming and application benchmarks to find the best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tech4gamers.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been doing this for a while and it's real hard not to get caught up in the hype and what all. But what I'm going to do is wait out the new stuff that's just around the corner, and then start the "process" all over.


Want to lead with: Dont pay over MSRP FFS. $450 was a stretch for X3d, $600+ is lunacy.

The frugal gamer shouldn't buy it, flat out. They should still be on a 9900k and a 1080ti or 2700 and 1080ti. Frugal gamer should also wait for Zen 5 release and buy Zen 4 at that point and AM5 board when refresh boards land for Zen 5, dropping price of first wave of AM5 boards that were for Zen 4. While all this waiting is going on DDR5 prices will drop too.

There is never an "ideal" time to buy, you buy or you don't. Waiting out next gen is a logical fallacy too many get caught up in. Want more speed? If yes buy now. If no, wait. Simple boolean check.

For anyone who buys based solely on website reviews, it's a bad buy, end of story.

There's more going on than the usual benchmark suite reveals though, and that's why prices are climbing on the CPU, the improvements are incredible where they apply.

Sim games - no equal.
Online games like WZ, SC, etc - no equal.
These are the most difficult games to benchmark for a variety of reasons so most sites don't even try, it creates an inherent sample bias.

It's makes the most sense for AM4 board owners with Zen/Zen+/Zen2 who don't want to layout for AM5Board+DDR5+Zen4 all at the same time and want end of road AM4 gaming for a few years.

Also makes sense for enthusiasts, who need no justification beyond "I want it".

PS: That review shows only the most basic metrics: average, 1%. Compare frame to frame consistency and you'll find the X3D annihilates 5900/5950. F2F consistency = smooth, and thus feels better despite potentially slightly lower averages, look at .01% lows, you'll find X3D doesn't dip as low, or as often either.

Don't believe that? Read up on sli microstuter it was exactly this issue, higher average FPS with uneven F2F pacing absolutely ruining the experience for most people using SLI.

These are the issues with tech review sites, they wave top check easy metrics and publish erroneous/misleading conclusions as a result.

I have a 5250mhz 1t/4700mhz 32t daily stable 5950x here. Not perf clocks, effective clocks. My X3D wipes the floor with it in gaming experience.


----------



## jonRock1992

tcclaviger said:


> Want to lead with: Dont pay over MSRP FFS. $450 was a stretch for X3d, $600+ is lunacy.
> 
> The frugal gamer shouldn't buy it, flat out. They should still be on a 9900k and a 1080ti or 2700 and 1080ti. Frugal gamer should also wait for Zen 5 release and buy Zen 4 at that point and AM5 board when refresh boards land for Zen 5, dropping price of first wave of AM5 boards that were for Zen 4. While all this waiting is going on DDR5 prices will drop too.
> 
> There is never an "ideal" time to buy, you buy or you don't. Waiting out next gen is a logical fallacy too many get caught up in. Want more speed? If yes buy now. If no, wait. Simple boolean check.
> 
> For anyone who buys based solely on website reviews, it's a bad buy, end of story.
> 
> There's more going on than the usual benchmark suite reveals though, and that's why prices are climbing on the CPU, the improvements are incredible where they apply.
> 
> Sim games - no equal.
> Online games like WZ, SC, etc - no equal.
> These are the most difficult games to benchmark for a variety of reasons so most sites don't even try, it creates an inherent sample bias.
> 
> It's makes the most sense for AM4 board owners with Zen/Zen+/Zen2 who don't want to layout for AM5Board+DDR5+Zen4 all at the same time and want end of road AM4 gaming for a few years.
> 
> Also makes sense for enthusiasts, who need no justification beyond "I want it".
> 
> PS: That review shows only the most basic metrics: average, 1%. Compare frame to frame consistency and you'll find the X3D annihilates 5900/5950. F2F consistency = smooth, and thus feels better despite potentially slightly lower averages, look at .01% lows, you'll find X3D doesn't dip as low, or as often either.
> 
> Don't believe that? Read up on sli microstuter it was exactly this issue, higher average FPS with uneven F2F pacing absolutely ruining the experience for most people using SLI.
> 
> These are the issues with tech review sites, they wave top check easy metrics and publish erroneous/misleading conclusions as a result.


The better frame pacing was the main reason I went with the 5800x3d. I wanted a smoother gaming experience. I was having many stutters while driving fast on roads in Death Stranding. I believe the 5800X3D helped with that a little.


----------



## LtMatt

Kashtan said:


> This result on Lara bench just a outstanding.
> Because here a table with results on this benchmark and better scores on 95% - 217 fps.
> Maybe another version of benchmark?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lara BENCH 2.0
> 
> 
> Общая таблица CPU CPU name,cpu frequency ,dram,Номер поста,Номер треда,GPU%,CPU game Min,CPU game Max,CPU game Avg,CPU game 95%,CPU render Min,CPU render Max,CPU render Avg,CPU render 95% i9 12900k P+E,P55-E43-ring4500,D5-6400-30-37-37-26-cr1-gear2,5735500,#11,0%,209,365,278,217,408,801,541,422,...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docs.google.com


I can submit that as an entry if you want? Just tell me what I have to do.

EDIT - Never mind see there's already a thread here.

You see @tcclaviger's score in the thread below. 



Luggage said:


> What version and what settings because they all seem low compared to OCN Benchmark Competition: Shadow of the Tomb Raider


Shame the OP of that thread got banned looks like it hasn't been updated in a while.


----------



## bloot

After 10 minutes of web browsing


----------



## Kashtan

LtMatt said:


> I can submit that as an entry if you want? Just tell me what I have to do.
> 
> EDIT - Never mind see there's already a thread here.


From this 


https://2ch.hk/hw/res/5882471.html


----------



## ilmazzo

It is expected that the 3D would run very solid even on a ****ty RAM configuration because is what cache is all about: keep the data near where it is disposed. Yeah you would maybe lose a 2% raw performance and some silly benches results but buying expensive RAM kits on a 8c/16t 96MB cache CPU is quite a waste of money


----------



## Kashtan

ilmazzo said:


> It is expected that the 3D would run very solid even on a ****ty RAM configuration because is what cache is all about: keep the data near where it is disposed. Yeah you would maybe lose a 2% raw performance and some silly benches results but buying expensive RAM kits on a 8c/16t 96MB cache CPU is quite a waste of money


I respect your idea, but I heard exactly the same opinions about cpu-s with edram, cache level 4, I am writing this text from 5775c now, I changed the RAM from 2400c11 to 2400c9, and the performance in lottr increased by 5%. Unfortunately, I can't find screenshots right now. But nevertheless, I am more than sure that the same applies to Vermeer-x with v-cache.


----------



## Luggage

Kashtan said:


> I respect your idea, but I heard exactly the same opinions about cpu-s with edram, cache level 4, I am writing this text from 5775c now, I changed the RAM from 2400c11 to 2400c9, and the performance in lottr increased by 5%. Unfortunately, I can't find screenshots right now. But nevertheless, I am more than sure that the same applies to Vermeer-x with v-cache.


Yea but I doubt you’ll see the same scaling as regular 5800X.



http://imgur.com/uNN2zuP


----------



## ice445

zzztopzzz said:


> This is when the hate mail hits: I've been a subscriber to this thread for a while and I was ready to pounce on the X3D. But here's the thing; Why would the frugal gamer want to spend, now, upward to $615 or so, for a chip that's only call to fame is the L3 which only benefits a small portion of the gaming world? The 5900X can now be had for less than $360.
> 
> Before you let go with your hard earned bucks, check this out:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ryzen 7 5800X3D vs Ryzen 9 5900X: Which Is Better? - Tech4Gamers
> 
> 
> Ryzen 7 5800X3D vs Ryzen 9 5900X in-depth CPU Comparison with gaming and application benchmarks to find the best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tech4gamers.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been doing this for a while and it's real hard not to get caught up in the hype and what all. But what I'm going to do is wait out the new stuff that's just around the corner, and then start the "process" all over.


It's not sensible for a frugal gamer, that's for sure. 5900X is better value for MOST people. With that said, the 5800X3D just has an unbelievable smoothness quality to it that's hard to really understand until you see it for yourself. I'm super satisfied with mine.


----------



## lestatdk

I upgraded from a 5800X as well. So far it's been a positive experience in all the games tested. Especially VR games run smoother now but also regular ( I run at 1440p ) . Not necessarily higher fps but smoother.


----------



## yzonker

Same here. I honestly was feeling some buyers remorse, but once I spent a little time gaming that completely went away. Immediately noticeable improvement in smoothness in movement in several games. I came from a 5800x with tuned b-die as well.

The only disappointment is the slight drop in some graphics benchmarks. I plan to dig in to that a bit more next week while I'm off from work.


----------



## lestatdk

yzonker said:


> Same here. I honestly was feeling some buyers remorse, but once I spent a little time gaming that completely went away. Immediately noticeable improvement in smoothness in movement in several games. I came from a 5800x with tuned b-die as well.
> 
> The only disappointment is the slight drop in some graphics benchmarks. I plan to dig in to that a bit more next week while I'm off from work.


My benches seems on par with previous. Definitely too close to significantly make any difference in real world application


----------



## PJVol

Luggage said:


> the same scaling as regular 5800X.


Just curious, what makes fps jump bigger for the +200 mem clock than for the +400?


----------



## Luggage

PJVol said:


> Just curious, what makes fps jump bigger for the +200 mem clock than for the +400?


3800 cl 14 is my tuned settings.
3600 cl 14 is xmp
3200 cl14 is msi "try it"-mb settings
...
<_<
I'll post the screens instead.


http://imgur.com/p78TexB




http://imgur.com/cNqebLS




http://imgur.com/dl3Yy0H


also have max boost scaling...

Need to drop to 4Ghz with 3800 ram to get as bad as 3200 :/


http://imgur.com/a/NR2jg25


----------



## zzztopzzz

To all of the above who crave smooth: Smooth is as smooth does. Most 5900/5950 folks will tell you it's pretty smooth. Today's price makes it even smoother. 😇


----------



## PJVol

Luggage said:


> 3600 cl 14 is xmp


Ahh...i see, this ^^ could be the the reason.


----------



## Sparrow1408

While I agree it would have been nice for the more efficient Zen3+ processors to come to desktop in a 16 core/32 thread, 3d-Vcache, specification as a way to EoL AM4 in style what we got in the 5800X3D is "good enough." Once AMD opens up BIOS level, Ryzen Master, curve optimization it will be a fine bookend for AM4. Maybe next year AMD will surprise AM4 owners with another CPU, just like they keep bringing back Zen2, but I doubt it.

The 3D VCache will allow the 5800X3d to age better then its more core counterparts and is a great part for ITX enthusiast who have limited cooling capacity.

AMD talks next-gen Zen 4 CPUs, Ryzen 7000, Socket AM5, and more | TechSpot

The 7000 series will be adding more L2 Cache, have a higher clock frequency, and get a "small" boost in IPC to increase performance. For those that want to wait and build a brand new machine, they should wait; If AMD supports AM5 for just three CPU Generation it will be money well spent.

For people who are looking to make an IN socket upgrade today, unless they NEED the extra cores, I would suggest they buy the 5800X3d at MSRP of $450 over the 5900X at $400 and wait for the AM5 Platform, DDR5, and PCIe 5.0 to Mature before buying into it. The argument of "frugality" is stupid; The most frugal route is to be happy with what one has and not upgrade until absolutely necessary. The argument about productivity is also stupid; If one is building a new machine for production loads then they are build for specific workload needs and that dictates the machine they would build.

The Average person should just get a quality prebuilt and is likely not reading this thread...

I didn't NEED to upgrade my 3600, I wanted to. 15 years from now when all chips are obsolete, I want to say I have "the best" CPU for early 20's, Win10, gaming. I made a decision based on my needs, preferences, and "Crystal Ball" predictions. You have YOUR reasons and they are just as valid. Go buy the other chip if that's what YOU want.

5800 X3D Cache Loves Odd Games Too - YouTube


----------



## AXi0M

So what's the prevailing opinion on running 1.2v SOC daily on these chips? safe or no?


----------



## BoredErica

Is anyone here willing/able to test Skyrim Special Edition or Oblivion performance? To make comparison to my 5600x more apples to apples, I will provide a save/ini file without any mods loaded.


----------



## domdtxdissar

tcclaviger said:


> It's official lads and ladies, 5800X3D+6950XT has arrived in various spots on the 3DMark HoF
> 
> Scores will keep climbing over the next few days before the 5950x comes home to set some real overall scores
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Links
> 
> 
> 
> FS - #61 I scored 48 100 in Fire Strike
> FSE- #87 I scored 31 316 in Fire Strike Extreme
> FSU - #21 I scored 17 012 in Fire Strike Ultra
> TSE-GFX #68 I scored 10 636 in Time Spy Extreme
> TS-GFC #45 I scored 22 683 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> 
> PS: Port Royal topped out at a 12671 thus far, a step down from my Ampere, but still a step up from my heavily OCd 2080ti.





yzonker said:


> It'll be interesting to see if your graphics scores improve with the 5950x. Unless you or someone else has already proven otherwise, there's at least a chance the 6950xt will work better with the 5800x3D than the NVIDIA cards.


I'm also back with my 5950x 

Following is a comparison between my 5800x3d and the 5950x on the same OS with ~same temps / ~GPU clocks on a Nvida 3090



domdtxdissar said:


> Maxed 5800x3d
> Night Raid score = 72331 points
> 
> Graphics Score 171771
> CPU Score 16898
> Wild Life score = 124195 points
> 
> Wild life Extreme = 52837 points
> 
> Fire Strike = 41882 points
> 
> Graphics Score 55490
> Physics Score 30370
> Combined Score 18446
> Fire Strike Extreme = 26505 points
> 
> Graphics Score 28705
> Physics Score 30422
> Combined Score 14995
> Fire Strike Ultra = 14864 points
> 
> Graphics Score 14992
> Physics Score 30318
> Combined Score 8130
> Time Spy = 20891 points
> 
> Graphics Score 23182
> CPU Score 13393
> Time Spy Extreme = 10322 points
> 
> Graphics Score 12056
> CPU Score 5687
> Port Royal = 15879 points


Maxed 5950x:
Night Raid score = 81118 points

Graphics Score 182507
CPU Score 19556
Wild Life score = 125997 points

Wild life Extreme = 53260 points

Fire Strike = 45477 points

Graphics Score 52091
Physics Score 45410
Combined Score 23323
Fire Strike Extreme = 27550 points

Graphics Score 28494
Physics Score 45922
Combined Score 14904
Fire Strike Ultra = 15153 points

Graphics Score 14907
Physics Score 45585
Combined Score 8072
Time Spy = 22866 points

Graphics Score 23519
CPU Score 19761
Time Spy Extreme = 12247 points

Graphics Score 12311
CPU Score 11900
Port Royal = 16023 points

Pretty much limited by summertime temps atm, but its ~even between the two cpus.
Must also be said, the 5800x3d is much stronger in real games than what 3dmark would lead you to believe


----------



## domdtxdissar

Kashtan said:


> This result on Lara bench just a outstanding.
> Because here a table with results on this benchmark and better scores on 95% - 217 fps.
> Maybe another version of benchmark?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lara BENCH 2.0
> 
> 
> Общая таблица CPU CPU name,cpu frequency ,dram,Номер поста,Номер треда,GPU%,CPU game Min,CPU game Max,CPU game Avg,CPU game 95%,CPU render Min,CPU render Max,CPU render Avg,CPU render 95% i9 12900k P+E,P55-E43-ring4500,D5-6400-30-37-37-26-cr1-gear2,5735500,#11,0%,209,365,278,217,408,801,541,422,...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docs.google.com


Here are a Lara run from me, 310fps cpu game minimum.
(with info about the settings)













5800x3d @ stock 4450mhz MT
Feel free to submit it to the google sheet


----------



## Sparrow1408

AXi0M said:


> So what's the prevailing opinion on running 1.2v SOC daily on these chips? safe or no?


Stock Auto Settings mine was reporting 1.8 so I would assume 1.2 is "fine"

However I have no idea why it was running so high as 1.05v SOC is just fine at 1900 FLCK on my sample... What does your voltage run at on auto settings?


----------



## zzztopzzz

Sparrow1408 said:


> While I agree it would have been nice for the more efficient Zen3+ processors to come to desktop in a 16 core/32 thread, 3d-Vcache, specification as a way to EoL AM4 in style what we got in the 5800X3D is "good enough." Once AMD opens up BIOS level, Ryzen Master, curve optimization it will be a fine bookend for AM4. Maybe next year AMD will surprise AM4 owners with another CPU, just like they keep bringing back Zen2, but I doubt it.
> 
> The 3D VCache will allow the 5800X3d to age better then its more core counterparts and is a great part for ITX enthusiast who have limited cooling capacity.
> 
> AMD talks next-gen Zen 4 CPUs, Ryzen 7000, Socket AM5, and more | TechSpot
> 
> The 7000 series will be adding more L2 Cache, have a higher clock frequency, and get a "small" boost in IPC to increase performance. For those that want to wait and build a brand new machine, they should wait; If AMD supports AM5 for just three CPU Generation it will be money well spent.
> 
> For people who are looking to make an IN socket upgrade today, unless they NEED the extra cores, I would suggest they buy the 5800X3d at MSRP of $450 over the 5900X at $400 and wait for the AM5 Platform, DDR5, and PCIe 5.0 to Mature before buying into it. The argument of "frugality" is stupid; The most frugal route is to be happy with what one has and not upgrade until absolutely necessary. The argument about productivity is also stupid; If one is building a new machine for production loads then they are build for specific workload needs and that dictates the machine they would build.
> 
> The Average person should just get a quality prebuilt and is likely not reading this thread...
> 
> I didn't NEED to upgrade my 3600, I wanted to. 15 years from now when all chips are obsolete, I want to say I have "the best" CPU for early 20's, Win10, gaming. I made a decision based on my needs, preferences, and "Crystal Ball" predictions. You have YOUR reasons and they are just as valid. Go buy the other chip if that's what YOU want.
> 
> 5800 X3D Cache Loves Odd Games Too - YouTube


Hey Sparrow, who p-p'd in your Cheerios? You come across as down right angy. I never thought being "frugal" or "productive" was or is stupid as you claim. The 5900/5950 are like the old time Packard sales pitch from way back that says "Ask a man who owns one". You never indicated what your daily driver is. So, it makes me wonder if you have any idea about what you are talking about.


----------



## AXi0M

Sparrow1408 said:


> Stock Auto Settings mine was reporting 1.8 so I would assume 1.2 is "fine"
> 
> However I have no idea why it was running so high as 1.05v SOC is just fine at 1900 FLCK on my sample... What does your voltage run at on auto settings?


On auto the voltages are 1.1 SOC. Your auto SOC was 1.8v? I doubt that, probably looking at the wrong voltage


----------



## Sparrow1408

AXi0M said:


> On auto the voltages are 1.1 SOC. Your auto SOC was 1.8v? I doubt that, probably looking at the wrong voltage


I missed the one in front of the eight: 1.1875v is the actual number.

Here is a screenshot of a CMOS clear, the XMP Profile set, and the speed set to 1900 1:1:1


----------



## Bitoshi

I think the 5800X3D at MSRP is a pretty decent value considering you get something that ties the best gaming CPU out today. It should remain decent for gaming for a very long time.

I upgraded to the 5800X3D with the intention of keeping it for the next 5 years. My previous cpu was an 8700k that I got in 2017, and before that a 2500k from 2011. I only upgrade my CPU every 5-6 years so I need something that will last as long as possible. I nearly got the 5900X, but it appears that cache is far more important than additional cores for gaming performance.

So far it's much better than my 8700k was for gaming. My avg fps didn't change much, but min fps is way better and gameplay feels much smoother. Back in 2020 I upgraded from a 1080 Ti to an RTX 3080 and almost felt disappointed in how games felt. My average fps nearly doubled, but my min fps was about the same which felt really jarring.

Some games like MSFS and watchdogs legion felt nearly unplayable with the 3080 + 8700k, but now they feel buttery smooth.


----------



## AXi0M

Sparrow1408 said:


> I missed the one in front of the eight: 1.1875v is the actual number.
> 
> Here is a screenshot of a CMOS clear, the XMP Profile set, and the speed set to 1900 1:1:1
> 
> 
> View attachment 2562041


Ok that makes more sense. 1.18v is what reads on software after i set 1.2v in bios for SOC.


----------



## Blameless

BoredErica said:


> Is anyone here willing/able to test Skyrim Special Edition or Oblivion performance? To make comparison to my 5600x more apples to apples, I will provide a save/ini file without any mods loaded.


I could test Oblivion, but unless you've got an AMD RX 6000 series GPU, the driver overhead differences are likely to skew results.

_Edit:_ At 1440p ultra in an unmodded new game, I'm pretty much pegged at a CPU limited 561 fps in the starting dungeon. However, to get the GPU to clock up I had to run GPU-Z's render test in the background...otherwise I was capped at a bit over 200 fps because my 6800 XT was stuck at idle clocks.


----------



## LtMatt

@tcclaviger At what point do you think LLC / + voltage offset is needed on 5800X3D? Trying to dial in 103 BCLK but seeing L3 Aida scores taking a nosedive, helped by using LLC3 massively, but is it enough?


----------



## tcclaviger

Around 103 tbh. At 102.8 I was adding 2 notches up, so +0.0125. By 105 I'm adding +0.05. For 106 it's +0.05 and using voltage suspension to cap at 1.2935v max and 1.25v min.

Past that isn't truly stable under 1.3v.

Oh and I stopped using CO over 103. To expound a bit, CO was interfering with getting what the CPU needs, so instead of tailoring it, I just set it to -1 all core, and tailor with offset for stability because at this edge of stability, voltage has a massive impact on effective clock and CO was just a nightmare to tune.

To contrast X3D OC experience. I attempted the same bclk strategy with my 5950 today. No chance. It refuses to cooperate like x3D did. Not sure if it's B0 vs B2, 1 CCD vs 2, or just lottery issue, but my 5950x turns it's nose up at BCLK OCing.


----------



## LtMatt

tcclaviger said:


> Around 103 tbh. At 102.8 I was adding 2 notches up, so +0.0125. By 105 I'm adding +0.05. For 106 it's +0.05 and using voltage suspension to cap at 1.2935v max and 1.25v min.
> 
> Past that isn't truly stable under 1.3v.
> 
> Oh and I stopped using CO over 103.


What's the best way to test for clock stretching? CPU-Z? If so what test? Just wondering what is the best app to verify.

Also, do you need to test for clock stretching in lightly threaded apps as well as something that stresses all cores?


----------



## tcclaviger

CPUZ is a great quick test. If it bounces around during test it's a sign of it.

Benchmate ycruncher is the best highload check I've found that's quick.

25m run like 10 times quickly in succession looking for consistent range for your setup +/- .01 second or so.

1b and 2.5b for longer workload stability/stretching.

PS: the best effective clocks are found with fixed voltage but I don't like running it daily above 1.22 fixed voltage.

1.22 - up to 102.8 bclk
1.25 - up to 105 bclk
1.27 - up to 106 bclk
I was using LLC4, so 1st step above "neutral" LLC whatever that is on your board, for Asus LLC 3 means SET = ~GET with minimal overshoot and usually about 0.005 sag.


----------



## Nighthog

Swapped over the *5800X3D* to my main AORUS *X570 XTREME* system with the RX 6900 XT.
Seeing some wonky behaviour at the moment.

*CPU-Z* is struggling with ~*6100*points multi & *620*points single core.
Also getting bluescreen at windows load screen with pretty mild memory settings. Seems something isn't getting set correctly with it.
Though I didn't need to Reset BIOS at first. Booted up on first try when I changed out from the 5700G.

The Gigabyte board doesn't delete your saved profiles with the 5800X3D like the Unify-X MAX did. That is so helpful but seeing kinda bad performance thus far.

Going to be needing to troubleshoot this.


----------



## Blameless

Nighthog said:


> *CPU-Z* is struggling with ~*6100*points multi & *620*points single core.


That's pretty normal for a stock 5800X3D on air cooling.



Nighthog said:


> Seems something isn't getting set correctly with it.


You are going to to want to clear your old settings and tune it from scratch, but keep the old profiles around as reference in case you need to hex edit anything.


----------



## LtMatt

3982Mhz CL14, only 1.52 VDIMM, think this will become my daily gaming overclock.









Going much higher on the Frequency/BCLK requires quite a bump in voltages and stability is harder to attain in my testing so far.


----------



## paih85

hurmm.. my 5800x3d cant do fclk 1900. no post.


----------



## lestatdk

paih85 said:


> hurmm.. my 5800x3d cant do fclk 1900. no post.


Have you tried 1933 ? There can be a 1900 MHz "hole" in some cases , my old 5800x had that. Worked fine at 1933 but 1900 would not boot


----------



## BoredErica

Blameless said:


> I could test Oblivion, but unless you've got an AMD RX 6000 series GPU, the driver overhead differences are likely to skew results.
> 
> _Edit:_ At 1440p ultra in an unmodded new game, I'm pretty much pegged at a CPU limited 561 fps in the starting dungeon. However, to get the GPU to clock up I had to run GPU-Z's render test in the background...otherwise I was capped at a bit over 200 fps because my 6800 XT was stuck at idle clocks.


Hi, thanks for the interest. If you're willing and able, here's an ini to test with (oblivion ini - Pastebin.com) and here is a save to test with (easyupload.io). It's still vanilla Oblivion (with DLCs). No OBSE, no combat, no AI, and I'm still getting only 63fps with 5600x. I don't have an AMD GPU to test with unfortunately, only have 3080ti.


----------



## ossimc

So guys. I ordered a refurbished ASUS x570 strix-e wifi II. Not really needed at the moment but I get PCI-e 4.0 for more future proof GPU upgrades.

Can you recommend a good value for money PCI-e 4.0 nvme 500GB solely for windows and programs. Games I would put on my 3.0 nvme.

Also what would be a good 32GB ram kit if I would aim for 3600Mhz with decent timings(rgb must^^)

I really feel my 280€ b-die kit is wasted money on X3D.

Also is it save to use win11 now with x3D. Would u recommend it in terms of performance?


----------



## Blameless

BoredErica said:


> Hi, thanks for the interest. If you're willing and able, here's an ini to test with (oblivion ini - Pastebin.com) and here is a save to test with (easyupload.io). It's still vanilla Oblivion (with DLCs). No OBSE, no combat, no AI, and I'm still getting only 63fps with 5600x. I don't have an AMD GPU to test with unfortunately, only have 3080ti.


My previous figures were inaccurate as CapFrame-X was reading the FPS of the GPU-Z render window and not the game. Actual FPS was around 220.

Just tested your save and .ini: 72fps without moving from the saved position.


----------



## the_aeon

My 5800X3D gives me error "cpu bus/interconnect error hwinfo".

I have OC in the ram at 3800mhz, what do I have to do?


----------



## jonRock1992

Think I got my 5800x3d running pretty decent with 101.8 BCLK and -21 all-core CO. Reinstalling windows helped quite a bit. System feels snappier. It's basically a stock 5800X with 3D V-cache now. It also passed 13 iterations of core cycler. Which is stable enough for me.
AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 3705.6 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR (x86.fr)


----------



## reantum

jonRock1992 said:


> Think I got my 5800x3d running pretty decent with 101.8 BCLK and -21 all-core CO. Reinstalling windows helped quite a bit. System feels snappier. It's basically a stock 5800X with 3D V-cache now.
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 3705.6 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR (x86.fr)
> View attachment 2562112


I am going to reinstall my windows too. What’s my cpu problem? 🤷‍♂️


----------



## zzztopzzz

Nighthog said:


> Swapped over the *5800X3D* to my main AORUS *X570 XTREME* system with the RX 6900 XT.
> Seeing some wonky behaviour at the moment.
> 
> *CPU-Z* is struggling with ~*6100*points multi & *620*points single core.
> Also getting bluescreen at windows load screen with pretty mild memory settings. Seems something isn't getting set correctly with it.
> Though I didn't need to Reset BIOS at first. Booted up on first try when I changed out from the 5700G.
> 
> The Gigabyte board doesn't delete your saved profiles with the 5800X3D like the Unify-X MAX did. That is so helpful but seeing kinda bad performance thus far.
> 
> Going to be needing to troubleshoot this.


I would try resetting the BIOS for openers.


----------



## RedF

ossimc said:


> So guys. I ordered a refurbished ASUS x570 strix-e wifi II. Not really needed at the moment but I get PCI-e 4.0 for more future proof GPU upgrades.
> 
> Can you recommend a good value for money PCI-e 4.0 nvme 500GB solely for windows and programs. Games I would put on my 3.0 nvme.
> 
> Also what would be a good 32GB ram kit if I would aim for 3600Mhz with decent timings(rgb must^^)
> 
> I really feel my 280€ b-die kit is wasted money on X3D.
> 
> Also is it save to use win11 now with x3D. Would u recommend it in terms of performance?


The Samsung OEM in my Signature ist a fast Low Budget one.


----------



## LtMatt

reantum said:


> View attachment 2562114
> 
> 
> I am going to reinstall my windows too. What’s my cpu problem? 🤷‍♂️


Looks like it was neglected at birth.


----------



## jonRock1992

reantum said:


> View attachment 2562114
> 
> 
> I am going to reinstall my windows too. What’s my cpu problem? 🤷‍♂️


Make sure you're on the latest bios for the 5800x3d and then clear CMOS and follow OP's steps. I leave preferred cores enabled because for some reason it makes my system perform better lol.


----------



## reantum

jonRock1992 said:


> Make sure you're on the latest bios for the 5800x3d and then clear CMOS and follow OP's steps. I leave preferred cores enabled because for some reason it makes my system perform better lol.


I cleared the CMOS. What you mean OP's steps? PBO enabled, disabled or auto?


----------



## jonRock1992

reantum said:


> I cleared the CMOS. What you mean OP's steps? PBO enabled, disabled or auto?


The first post of the thread gives some tips on how to optimize the bios settings for the 5800x3d.


----------



## tcclaviger

jonRock1992 said:


> Think I got my 5800x3d running pretty decent with 101.8 BCLK and -21 all-core CO. Reinstalling windows helped quite a bit. System feels snappier. It's basically a stock 5800X with 3D V-cache now. It also passed 13 iterations of core cycler. Which is stable enough for me.
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 3705.6 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR (x86.fr)
> View attachment 2562112


Solid, nice work.



reantum said:


> I cleared the CMOS. What you mean OP's steps? PBO enabled, disabled or auto?


PBO Always leave on auto for x3d with currently available AGESA, no reason to touch.

Tune CO to reduce power/heat using PBO2 tuner, flash to bios using tool posted in this thread.

Find RAM settings with 1.1 to 1.15 SOC range. Then trim SOC/CCD/IOD/CLDO_VDDP as low as possible while maintaining full stability.

These steps can significantly reduce uncore power draw freeing more core power budget, reduce core voltages and reduce heat meaning more boost consistency, which results in much better overall performance.

All core performance on X3D is essentially a cooling check. Single core performance is a power budget check, as in, does the CPU keep enough free power budget while staying below FIT limit to maintain max multiplier under load?

Beyond that if you want to overclock BCLK is the way, but...do the above first and only then start BCLK increases. A well tuned 100BCLK is faster than a poorly tuned 105BCLK.


----------



## reantum

tcclaviger said:


> Solid, nice work.
> 
> 
> PBO Always leave on auto for x3d with currently available AGESA, no reason to touch.
> 
> Tune CO to reduce power/heat using PBO2 tuner, flash to bios using tool posted in this thread.
> 
> Find RAM settings with 1.1 to 1.15 SOC range. Then trim SOC/CCD/IOD/CLDO_VDDP as low as possible while maintaining full stability.
> 
> These steps can significantly reduce uncore power draw freeing more core power budget, reduce core voltages and reduce heat meaning more boost consistency, which results in much better overall performance.
> 
> All core performance on X3D is essentially a cooling check. Single core performance is a power budget check, as in, does the CPU keep enough free power budget while staying below FIT limit to maintain max multiplier under load?
> 
> Beyond that if you want to overclock BCLK is the way, but...do the above first and only then start BCLK increases. A well tuned 100BCLK is faster than a poorly tuned 105BCLK.


I can't overclock my CPU. X570 Unify... anyway. I done everything you said. If i give 102 BLCK, mobo wont post.


----------



## tcclaviger

Seperatly the topic of CPPC Preferred Cores Enabled vs Disable:

There is no definitive better setting, it is both cooling capacity dependant and chip dependant. 

Which cores, as in core #, and the difference in quality between best/worst core on a specific CPU will influence whether enabled or disabled is better.

Additionally some work loads simply respond better to one setting vs the the other. Firestrike Physics and Combined tests, for example, like it disabled. Some games prefer it enabled.

Test your games/applications with both and use whichever suits your scenario best.


----------



## tcclaviger

reantum said:


> I can't overclock my CPU. X570 Unify... anyway. I done everything you said. If i give 102 BLCK, mobo wont post.


There's some chip lottery involved for BCLK tolerance, but usually the biggest constraint will be GPU/SSD tolerance for increased BCLK since it raises all system clocks to "out of spec" aka overclocks the whole system.

Often raising bclk will require memory strap to go down by 1 or 2 notches.

For example
(56*101.8)/3 = 1900.25 FCLK 3800 MCLK
(57*101.8)/3 =1934.2 FCLK 3868 MCLK

Often people will try 102 at 1900/3900 strap (57:3) and it won't post. It's because 57:3 is most tempermental strap and usually will not work above 1915/3830 speeds, lowering to 56:3 usually fixes that, or raising to 58:3 if your memory timings can deal with high speed, from there it's a matter of dialing memory strap complementary to bclk speed.


----------



## Audioboxer

ossimc said:


> So guys. I ordered a refurbished ASUS x570 strix-e wifi II. Not really needed at the moment but I get PCI-e 4.0 for more future proof GPU upgrades.
> 
> Can you recommend a good value for money PCI-e 4.0 nvme 500GB solely for windows and programs. Games I would put on my 3.0 nvme.
> 
> Also what would be a good 32GB ram kit if I would aim for 3600Mhz with decent timings(rgb must^^)
> 
> I really feel my 280€ b-die kit is wasted money on X3D.
> 
> Also is it save to use win11 now with x3D. Would u recommend it in terms of performance?


I'd actually say to do it the other way around, a 3.0 NVMe is totally fine for Windows, give games the 4.0 with directstorage also on the way.

I run a Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500GB for Windows and a 2TB Corsair MP600 Pro for games.


----------



## bmagnien

Was there a consensus for which corecycler test to run? Starting with ‘Smallest, P95 AVX2, Auto’ (however long it takes to run through all ffts). Is one round of this sufficient? -30 all cores is passing this for me and don’t want to run it longer than I have to.


----------



## tcclaviger

I run both SSE and AVX2 through, but on x3D at 100bclk, only AVX2 should really be necessary as SSE max speed verification stability doesn't really apply.



ossimc said:


> So guys. I ordered a refurbished ASUS x570 strix-e wifi II. Not really needed at the moment but I get PCI-e 4.0 for more future proof GPU upgrades.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you recommend a good value for money PCI-e 4.0 nvme 500GB solely for windows and programs. Games I would put on my 3.0 nvme.
> 
> 
> 
> Also what would be a good 32GB ram kit if I would aim for 3600Mhz with decent timings(rgb must^^)
> 
> 
> 
> I really feel my 280€ b-die kit is wasted money on X3D.
> 
> 
> 
> Also is it save to use win11 now with x3D. Would u recommend it in terms of performance?


IMHO buy the cheapest RGB B-die kit you can find. Not for overclockability, for simple compatibility. b-die is flat out the most compliant DDR4 available and makes finding stability trivial, rolling the dice with DJR/Mdie/Cdie etc is a gamble....will it work?
Who knows, sometimes yes sometimes no.
Not sure about Euro market, but in US b-die is only like $10-$20 per kit more expensive, so there's no reason to buy inferior ram.


----------



## reantum

tcclaviger said:


> There's some chip lottery involved for BCLK tolerance, but usually the biggest constraint will be GPU/SSD tolerance for increased BCLK since it raises all system clocks to "out of spec" aka overclocks the whole system.
> 
> Often raising bclk will require memory strap to go down by 1 or 2 notches.
> 
> For example
> (56*101.8)/3 = 1900.25 FCLK 3800 MCLK
> (57*101.8)/3 =1934.2 FCLK 3866 MCLK
> 
> Often people will try 102 at 1900/3900 strap (57:3) and it won't post. It's because 57:3 is most tempermental strap and usually will not work above 1915/3830 speeds, lowering to 56:3 usually fixes that, or raising to 58:3 if your memory timings can deal with high speed, from there it's a matter of dialing memory strap complementary to bclk speed.


When i set 101.8 i stuck with Loading Screen. What should I do? When i set 1,933 value, bios post 1,900 value. I am using 3800/1933 because of this bug or something.


----------



## Blameless

the_aeon said:


> My 5800X3D gives me error "cpu bus/interconnect error hwinfo".
> 
> I have OC in the ram at 3800mhz, what do I have to do?


If the errors are infrequent adjust voltages (SoC, DDG, maybe CPU 1.8v if needed). If you see tons of them, chances are your part can't do 1900FCLK.


----------



## tcclaviger

First only use matched FCLK/MCLK only. It's always a performance loss to use mismatch speeds unless using extreme speed RAM (4500+).

Try 101 first with memory set to 3600 MCLK at 1800 FCLK and verify it works. Raise BCLK using that memory strap until you find your systems post limit, then back off like .6 bclk, so if 104 stops posting try windows at 103.4.

For voltage tweaks looks a few posts back.

Some PCs won't tolerate any raised bclk for mentioned reasons above. The same PC I OC my X3D up to 107 BCLK refuses to run right with even 101 using my 5950x, chip lottery on display.

Disclaimer: I've never, in 24 years OCing systems used an MSI or GB board, so I have no idea how they work. It is different from Abit/Asus/ASrock in behaviour and some things don't translate between brands.


----------



## Audioboxer

What does everyone think of it looking like AM5 is not going to launch with 3D cache?

Really does seem to have been beta testing on AM4, for now.

Pretty much one of the reasons I'm looking to wait until early 2024 before even considering stepping up to AM5.


----------



## CyberBongi

@tcclaviger is it even worth it to OC BCLK with nvme SSDs? I know that B550 is more forgiving (Unify-X in my case) but still not sure If I should or should not.


----------



## tcclaviger

Re: AM5...personally, I'm waiting until refresh Zen 4 at earliest to adopt.

Re: OC, it depends, but nvme doesn't preclude OC. I have 2 nvme drives that will do 110+bclk, and two that quite at 105.4. Samsung 980 pro and sn500 : cs3030 1tb and cs3030 2tb respectively.


----------



## OCmember

@Nighthog Keep us posted on the progress.


----------



## yzonker

@tcclaviger , I think you may be right about the raw clockspeed loss being the issue with PR. I made a bunch of runs changing various other settings (fclk, mem timings, etc...) and found it to be nearly insensitive to those settings (I only saw a 50pt swing by comparing bios defaults to my tuned settings).

BUT, then I realized I hadn't tried stock clocks vs. 102 bclk and -25 CO. And bam, it did make a significant difference given the small change in clock speed. Ran it twice to be sure. I was just running a basic overclock on the GPU with everything running in Windows including HWINFO sampling at 100ms, so scores are much lower than normal.

Stock clocks on 5800x3D (I ran this a bunch of times ranging from 14417 to the 14434 I linked below),









I scored 14 434 in Port Royal


AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com





102 bclk, -25 CO,









I scored 14 485 in Port Royal


AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com





Not a huge change, but pretty sure it's consistent. If I could get the 5800x3D up to the same clocks as my 5800x, I suspect the gap would close more.

This may also explain why @domdtxdissar appears to take a bigger hit as his 5950x is much better than my 5800x, so the clock delta will be larger.

edit: and just remembered unless it's changed, dom is stuck at 100 bclk too.


----------



## domdtxdissar

yzonker said:


> @tcclaviger , I think you may be right about the raw clockspeed loss being the issue with PR. I made a bunch of runs changing various other settings (fclk, mem timings, etc...) and found it to be nearly insensitive to those settings (I only saw a 50pt swing by comparing bios defaults to my tuned settings).
> 
> BUT, then I realized I hadn't tried stock clocks vs. 102 bclk and -25 CO. And bam, it did make a significant difference given the small change in clock speed. Ran it twice to be sure. I was just running a basic overclock on the GPU with everything running in Windows including HWINFO sampling at 100ms, so scores are much lower than normal.
> 
> Stock clocks on 5800x3D (I ran this a bunch of times ranging from 14417 to the 14434 I linked below),
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 14 434 in Port Royal
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 102 bclk, -25 CO,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 14 485 in Port Royal
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not a huge change, but pretty sure it's consistent. If I could get the 5800x3D up to the same clocks as my 5800x, I suspect the gap would close more.
> 
> This may also explain why @domdtxdissar appears to take a bigger hit as his 5950x is much better than my 5800x, so the clock delta will be larger.


Yeah i ran static 4950/4800mhz allcore in Port Royal with the 5950x








Kinda stupid that the 3dmark loading screen is the hardest to pass in regards to cpu clocks with my 5950x 😆

5800x3d at "stock 4450mhz" (and one 3090 boost-bin lower than 5950x run)










Audioboxer said:


> What does everyone think of it looking like AM5 is not going to launch with 3D cache?
> 
> Really does seem to have been beta testing on AM4, for now.
> 
> Pretty much one of the reasons I'm looking to wait until early 2024 before even considering stepping up to AM5.


_off-topic_
Ordering a AM5 build first chance i get 
Have the following hardware ready: (new TechN block and custom DDR5 cooling)









In regards to the (subpar) >15% performance increase claim:

Robert covers some of the stuff in that TPU interview, but there's a bunch more info he goes over in nuanced detail.




"The thing that AMD has always endeavored to do is to publish numbers that are highly reproducible and we tend to err on the conservative side. On purpose. We don't want to disappoint. We'd like to be realistic. It is worth saying that this is still early in the life of making these CPUs real. 3 months, 4 months, however long it takes to get to Fall. It doesn't seem like a long time, but it's a long time in terms of finalizing CPUs. So we guided greater than 15 because we definitely know it will be higher than 15, but how much higher will depend. And I will also say that there are multiple ways we're being conservative. As an example, the *Zen 3 is a good analogy here. If you think back to our introduction of that architecture, we said on the whole that the 19% IPC uplift some were single digits, some were higher than that, but the geomean 19-20% and I feel that it is a widely accepted value. But if you look at Cinebench in particular, it was only 8, 9, 10%? So we used Cinebench at Computex,* and I'm not promising that there is this massive IPC uplift across the board. I don't know yet, I haven't seen the numbers. All we've given is a tiny window into the world of what the chip can do. I am very optimistic about its performance, and there is a lot more to say, but you know, getting over 15% with a prototype part is not bad. More to come." [emphasis mine]

About the community on the 15%:
"I've seen some angst on that 15% number and I want to touch on that again. You know I can't go too deep into it. I want to say we were conservative on that number in 4 or 5 unique ways, and just give us the benefit of the doubt. I think we've earned it. We really try hard to make sure we deliver exactly as promised or often times a lot more than promised, so let's see how the summer goes before drawing conclusions. I think Zen 4 and the 7000 series will be extremely potent. It's a hellova upgrade. Give it time."

Edit: Here's AMD's Zen 3 IPC plot again. Not sure where CB R23 falls on this plot but....









As for the blender numbers, AMD said 297 seconds for 12900k and 204 seconds for unknown cpu in the 7000 series in the footnotes
















This is 31% less time but at the same time 45% faster than ADL ... I think maybe this was a bit clumsy written by AMD, but with the rest of the numbers taken into account, it can look like they are sandbagging again.. Or so i hope atleast


----------



## yzonker

Yea I guess I'll just have to pop my 5800x back in the machine if I want to make a serious run at benchmarks, at least some of them.


----------



## tcclaviger

Would like to remind everyone, they've not confirmed presence of Microsoft's Proprietary backdoor into your PC aka Pluton. For some, this will be a buy or pass decision point (I'm one of those people). If AMD include it on all CPUs, I'll be moving back to intel, really simple binary for me performance numbers be damned.

He went on to let slip the 7950x is roughly 40% faster than 5950x in nT performance during a QA.

Overall uplift is going to be big. My prediction is 5% 1t lead over 12900k and I'm going with his 40% uplift over 5950x nT performance. Translated down to octalcore CPUs, it's very hard to predict, but....

Given history of 2700x and 5800x having the most generous per core power density as delivered when stock, I predict the 7800x is going to crush the 12900k in everything except sheer core count benchmarks where the e-core cancer makes a difference, 7900x and 7950x will, once again be in the absent Intel HEDT performance category all alone.

*I would warn everyone to ignore mainstream info:* They consistently get it wrong referring to the AMD intervals as tick tock, that AMD are focusing on increasing clock speeds most, that 15% being thrown all over the place, the 170 TDP figure bein brandished as power draw (it's 230 PPT), etc etc

The reality is, each, and every Zen release using a new number, aka Zen, Zen 2, Zen 3 has included massive changes to the basic architecture, schedulers, branch predictors, pieplines etc.
Mainstream has never successfully predicted a Zen release's performance level.

It is not just a Zen 3 port to increase speeds.

My predictions, just putting them somewhere so I can look back and laugh: 
No V-Cache on initial Zen 4 wave.
Motherboard prices are going to make people furious.
X3D will roughly match or slightly edge out Zen 4 gaming performance in the games where it excels and fall well behind where it doesn't.
7600 - 5000 1t, ~4800nt
7800 - 5300 1t, ~5000nt
7900 - 5500 1t, ~5000nt
7950 - 5600 1t, ~5000nt



yzonker said:


> @tcclaviger , I think you may be right about the raw clockspeed loss being the issue with PR. I made a bunch of runs changing various other settings (fclk, mem timings, etc...) and found it to be nearly insensitive to those settings (I only saw a 50pt swing by comparing bios defaults to my tuned settings).
> 
> BUT, then I realized I hadn't tried stock clocks vs. 102 bclk and -25 CO. And bam, it did make a significant difference given the small change in clock speed. Ran it twice to be sure. I was just running a basic overclock on the GPU with everything running in Windows including HWINFO sampling at 100ms, so scores are much lower than normal.
> 
> Stock clocks on 5800x3D (I ran this a bunch of times ranging from 14417 to the 14434 I linked below),
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 14 434 in Port Royal
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 102 bclk, -25 CO,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 14 485 in Port Royal
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not a huge change, but pretty sure it's consistent. If I could get the 5800x3D up to the same clocks as my 5800x, I suspect the gap would close more.
> 
> This may also explain why @domdtxdissar appears to take a bigger hit as his 5950x is much better than my 5800x, so the clock delta will be larger.
> 
> edit: and just remembered unless it's changed, dom is stuck at 100 bclk too.


Kick ass, nice methodical tracking down of the cause. There are tests where X3D cannot be matched, even by a 6700mhz 12900k when not GPU bound, like FS GT1.


----------



## PJVol

tcclaviger said:


> My prediction is 5% 1t lead over 12900k and I'm going with his 40%


Sounds overly optimistic, tbh, if we believe +15% st uplift in CB R23.


----------



## tcclaviger

Definitely could be


----------



## RBLXXXVI

Hi, I'm now running my first only CO offset tune, Small FFT and AVX2. Currently passing with -20 offset, yet all I'm seeing is a 25mhz boost on one of the 8 cores. The best boosting core is reaching 4475.2 MHz (Others 4450MHz as expected). Alas I'm on a mobo that doesn't offer an external clock generator so I'm just making the few changes I can for now. My question is, should I expect more than this? Should I be running the +200MHz OC option my board does support? (I think probably not) I've set my PBO scaling to default / minimum and other mobo setting are as @tcclaviger recommended (or left as standard). My only other query is I don't see a PLL setting in my bios ASUS X570-E, I'm assuming it's here though maybe under a different title? Thanks.


----------



## tcclaviger

Correct on the +200, it doesnt function with X3D.
You should be seeing ~45.5 on single core work loads. The people I'm aware of who've been stuck at 44.5 and have solved it have done so with power plan adjustment, reinstalling windows, and reflashing bios.

PLL is present on the Strix X570-E II, it should also be present on E.


----------



## RBLXXXVI

tcclaviger said:


> Correct on the +200, it doesnt function with X3D.
> You should be seeing ~45.5 on single core work loads. The people I'm aware of who've been stuck at 44.5 and have solved it have done so with power plan adjustment, reinstalling windows, and reflashing bios.
> 
> PLL is present on the Strix X570-E II, it should also be present on E.
> View attachment 2562184


Seems like you've found another problem to keep me busy! Thanks. 😁 To be clear are you saying that with the CO tune at -30 I should be seeing 4550? Or I should be getting that as stock with the PO tune potentially adding more on top of that? I'm using a fresh Win 10 install for this, so I'll keep a reinstall as a back-up plan. Power Settings are balanced currently, I'll try that next.


----------



## tcclaviger

CO won't add speed beyond 45.5 single and 44.5 multi thread, that's it, that's all it will get unless raising the base clock.

PBO doesn't work, since PBO doesn't work, the core offset function doesn't work.

Doing a CO tune just allows it to stay at or closer to 44.5 and 45.5 more often.


----------



## RBLXXXVI

Tried with the custom power plan from that thread on the forum here, no difference. Guess I'll re-flash the bios later today and see if that helps, if not I'll just stick with it at 4450MHz, unless someone else who's had this issue has any suggestions to try.


----------



## tcclaviger

You can check what is limiting the speed using zenPTmonitor, it will at least show the cause, from the SMU point of view.

A few pages back I posted some screen shots showing what to look at or you can take a screen shot while R23 single is running and post.


----------



## Nighthog

OCmember said:


> @Nighthog Keep us posted on the progress.


There is a issue with HEAT... my 360radiator inside the case of my main system is somehow working less effective than a single 120rad with push-pull on a table. Almost 20C+ degree difference on water temperatures if I have my GPU doing something and 10C+ at best if only having the CPU at work. Eats out lots of headroom from the temperature sensitive 5800X3D.
I know my case was bad but not THAT bad for the airflow. [In Win 303] Only way to have proper thermals inside it you need to have a bottom mounted radiator but then you can't use the PCI slots freely.

The bluescreen issue seems to have resolved itself after I just tried a few extra tries at it. Must have been a training issue from the CPU swap that didn't clear on the first tries.

Was occupied to test too much further but need to fix my case issues with heat if I want to use it there. Still have parts I need to clean from when I broke down my loop and changed the layout etc.
I posted a thread in the watercooling section on how bad my loop had gotten when I changed out the CPU. Only did half the work on the cleaning as I put the system back together with newer parts.
Need to clean the GPU and change tubing and preferably decide on a new case, this one doesn't have the airflow required to manage with anything really. Always a hotbox.


----------



## lestatdk

RBLXXXVI said:


> Seems like you've found another problem to keep me busy! Thanks. 😁 To be clear are you saying that with the CO tune at -30 I should be seeing 4550? Or I should be getting that as stock with the PO tune potentially adding more on top of that? I'm using a fresh Win 10 install for this, so I'll keep a reinstall as a back-up plan. Power Settings are balanced currently, I'll try that next.


My chip can do 4550 now at -30 PBO, but only after I flashed to the new bios with AGESA 1.2.0.7. Before that I was stuck on 4450


----------



## tcclaviger

Hey good news for you Nighthog; all the majors have recently released air flow focused cases to update their lineups, some are quite nice looking and functional.


----------



## Globespy

On Gigabyte Aorus X570 master with the 5800X3D. 
Had to update to latest BIOS to support CPU, but think I went too new so I'm on F36e (Agesa 1.2.0.7).
Everything runs fine, but noticed that the board will not save changes to things like CPPC Preferred Cores (Disabled) as these values are reset after every reboot despite saving them in a new BIOS profile.
Wonder if it's even worth going back to previous BIOS as I get the feeling Gigabyte just don't want us playing with the X3D?


----------



## tcclaviger

AMD it's likely to actively push further restriction being enforced, they have to do the RMAs after all.

You might be able to use the tool to flash options from windows into bios, they tend to stick more persistently than actually setting them in bios.


----------



## Voltage45

tcclaviger said:


> AMD it's likely to actively push further restriction being enforced, they have to do the RMAs after all.
> 
> You might be able to use the tool to flash options from windows into bios, they tend to stick more persistently than actually setting them in bios.


yea about that could you please upload the tool somewhere cos original one is on this thread is deleted or idk what's problem.it says something went wrong.









5800X3D Owners


Scroll Down For Gaming Results If Not Interested In Details TLDR: 5800X3D is a monster at gaming, is easily OCd, and runs hot and beats even a tuned 5950x in most games; for general computing the 5800x, and more importantly now, the 5700x trounce it when OCd as well but cannot match it in...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Luggage

Voltage45 said:


> yea about that could you please upload the tool somewhere cos original one is on this thread is deleted or idk what's problem.it says something went wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5800X3D Owners
> 
> 
> Scroll Down For Gaming Results If Not Interested In Details TLDR: 5800X3D is a monster at gaming, is easily OCd, and runs hot and beats even a tuned 5950x in most games; for general computing the 5800x, and more importantly now, the 5700x trounce it when OCd as well but cannot match it in...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


----------



## Voltage45

Luggage said:


> View attachment 2562239
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2562240
> 
> 
> View attachment 2562241


dude i'm using pc since 1996 alright i know how it works but i can't login i can't download.thanks for nothing.


----------



## Luggage

Voltage45 said:


> dude i'm using pc since 1996 alright i know how it works but i can't login i can't download.thanks for nothing.


So the problem is on your side still - it works.

Remove .txt


----------



## Voltage45

Luggage said:


> So the problem is on your side still - it works.
> 
> Remove .txt












and get the file right?wrong, it says "something went wrong, try again." and not working.i want to show the error in Turkish but i've said hardest language in the planet and just show?it's cruel select to english and it works.never imagine google is racist.anyway i got the file.it maybe sample of another Turkish friend.remember no Turkish.


----------



## Globespy

tcclaviger said:


> AMD it's likely to actively push further restriction being enforced, they have to do the RMAs after all.
> 
> You might be able to use the tool to flash options from windows into bios, they tend to stick more persistently than actually setting them in bios.


Thanks, but the tool doesn't do anything for my chip. Max Boost is 4450.4 MHz
Perhaps the latest Gigabyte BIOS did inject further locks that can no longer be removed.
I'm also unable to get BIOS to post with any BCLK changes (tried 100.2 and still won't post) - 3080ti, G.Skill 2x16GB DDR4 3200Mhz (16-18-18-38)

I'm running 360 EK AIO, temps never usually go much higher than mid 70's using core cycler, low 80's with OCCT on extreme settings


----------



## jonRock1992

Globespy said:


> Thanks, but the tool doesn't do anything for my chip. Max Boost is 4450.4 MHz
> Perhaps the latest Gigabyte BIOS did inject further locks that can no longer be removed.
> I'm also unable to get BIOS to post with any BCLK changes (tried 100.2 and still won't post) - 3080ti, G.Skill 2x16GB DDR4 3200Mhz (16-18-18-38)
> 
> I'm running 360 EK AIO, temps never usually go much higher than mid 70's using core cycler, low 80's with OCCT on extreme settings


Did you enable global C-states?


----------



## Sparrow1408

Globespy said:


> Thanks, but the tool doesn't do anything for my chip. Max Boost is 4450.4 MHz
> Perhaps the latest Gigabyte BIOS did inject further locks that can no longer be removed.
> I'm also unable to get BIOS to post with any BCLK changes (tried 100.2 and still won't post) - 3080ti, G.Skill 2x16GB DDR4 3200Mhz (16-18-18-38)
> 
> I'm running 360 EK AIO, temps never usually go much higher than mid 70's using core cycler, low 80's with OCCT on extreme settings


Did you by any chance disable "AMD Cool & Quiet" in the Bios - I Disabled it trying to see if it would make a stability difference and my CPU started to only see 44.5x Clocks. I made a few other tweaks as well so IDK if that was it but...


*_*

My 5800X3d Sample ran y-cruncher for 7200 seconds, Prime95 for 29 minutes, and completed over 100% of ram testing before popping a WHEA error 

So close...












With LLC set to extrema the Chip will do -25 but not -30.










My sample is definitely not a golden one and there isn't much more to tinker with until the next AGESA update.


----------



## Kashtan

domdtxdissar said:


> Here are a Lara run from me, 310fps cpu game minimum.
> (with info about the settings)
> View attachment 2562011
> View attachment 2562012
> 
> 5800x3d @ stock 4450mhz MT
> Feel free to submit it to the google sheet


You result also just outstanding. 
In order for your result to be included in that online table, a number of conditions must be met. To be honest, I can only get to that site through a shareware VPN, so my results are not there, too troublesome.
There, in particular, it is necessary to use not any version of lottr, but only a demo version from steam. They differ in fps. Then set the settings, in particular 720 resolution.


----------



## tcclaviger

Globespy said:


> Thanks, but the tool doesn't do anything for my chip. Max Boost is 4450.4 MHz
> Perhaps the latest Gigabyte BIOS did inject further locks that can no longer be removed.
> I'm also unable to get BIOS to post with any BCLK changes (tried 100.2 and still won't post) - 3080ti, G.Skill 2x16GB DDR4 3200Mhz (16-18-18-38)
> 
> I'm running 360 EK AIO, temps never usually go much higher than mid 70's using core cycler, low 80's with OCCT on extreme settings


I would be highly surprised if GB restricted boost to 44.5 globally. 44.5 is max with 3 threads or more going, but 1 or 2 should still climb over 44.5.

ZenPTmonitor, as mentioned will show what limiter is being tripped holding it down to 44.5, be it FIt voltage, volt-freq curve, temp etc.

It's the best way to identify where the limitation lies.


----------



## CyberBongi

Is there any good BCLK OC guide for MSI motherboards? All I find is the same Asus guide.


----------



## yzonker

tcclaviger said:


> I would be highly surprised if GB restricted boost to 44.5 globally. 44.5 is max with 3 threads or more going, but 1 or 2 should still climb over 44.5.
> 
> ZenPTmonitor, as mentioned will show what limiter is being tripped holding it down to 44.5, be it FIt voltage, volt-freq curve, temp etc.
> 
> It's the best way to identify where the limitation lies.


My Gigabyte x570 Ultra still works the same with the latest bios. I already had the bios flashed when I did that last round of PR testing. I was seeing 4640 on multiple cores while surfing around on the 3dmark site.


----------



## LtMatt

Sparrow1408 said:


> Did you by any chance disable "AMD Cool & Quiet" in the Bios - I Disabled it trying to see if it would make a stability difference and my CPU started to only see 44.5x Clocks. I made a few other tweaks as well so IDK if that was it but...
> 
> 
> *_*
> 
> My 5800X3d Sample ran y-cruncher for 7200 seconds, Prime95 for 29 minutes, and completed over 100% of ram testing before popping a WHEA error
> 
> So close...
> 
> 
> View attachment 2562270
> 
> 
> 
> With LLC set to extrema the Chip will do -25 but not -30.
> 
> View attachment 2562284
> 
> 
> My sample is definitely not a golden one and there isn't much more to tinker with until the next AGESA update.


Good work! That must be so frustrating to clock that single WHEA error at the end.


----------



## xeizo

CyberBongi said:


> Is there any good BCLK OC guide for MSI motherboards? All I find is the same Asus guide.


Your mileage may vary,but I have abandoned BCLK OC as it has always caused some corruption on NVMe drives for me. Not worth it.

Anyway, I have my 5800X3D for gaming, it's not meant to be benchmarked as almost everything is locked down. Mine do boost to 4550MHz on several cores though, CH8 Extreme bios 0801. I'm running 3733MHz memory and calls it a day(1900MHz and above FCLK always introduce the risk for WHEA, also not worth it on a pure gaming rig).


----------



## CyberBongi

xeizo said:


> Your mileage may vary,but I have abandoned BCLK OC as it has always caused some corruption on NVMe drives for me. Not worth it.
> 
> Anyway, I have my 5800X3D for gaming, it's not meant to be benchmarked as almost everything is locked down. Mine do boost to 4550MHz on several cores though, CH8 Extreme bios 0801. I'm running 3733MHz memory and calls it a day(1900MHz and above FCLK always introduce the risk for WHEA, also not worth it on a pure gaming rig).


I can't even boot 1900 FCLK. Thankfully at least 1867 seems fully stable whea free.
Is there any way to check for corruption caused by BCLK besides one day waking up and being "oh f this **** is corrupted".
Also does it cause any long term damage to the SSDs or just corruption?


----------



## xeizo

CyberBongi said:


> I can't even boot 1900 FCLK. Thankfully at least 1867 seems fully stable whea free.
> Is there any way to check for corruption caused by BCLK besides one day waking up and being "oh f this **** is corrupted".
> Also does it cause any long term damage to the SSDs or just corruption?


I have noticed it when Windows suddenly wants to repair during boot, no the SSD do not risk damage it's only Windows and files that gets the damage, could be some important file that gets destroyed though and it's a hazzle to reinstall Windows


----------



## CyberBongi

xeizo said:


> I have noticed it when Windows suddenly wants to repair during boot, no the SSD do not risk damage it's only Windows and files that gets the damage, could be some important file that gets destroyed though and it's a hazzle to reinstall Windows


You are obviously right that it ain't worth it unless it's a must. But like can't we find a good BCLK, like I wish that there was a rule that -x from bootable BCLK would result in a stable one.
Right now I don't care too much about corruption, it's my gaming rig, but in 5 months I am starting my engineering degree, I don't want corrupted stuff lol.


----------



## Sparrow1408

CyberBongi said:


> You are obviously right that it ain't worth it unless it's a must. But like can't we find a good BCLK, like I wish that there was a rule that -x from bootable BCLK would result in a stable one.
> Right now I don't care too much about corruption, it's my gaming rig, but in 5 months I am starting my engineering degree, I don't want corrupted stuff lol.


It's Motherboard dependant.






My system BSODs at 101 BCLK because it doesn't have that external clock gen. I didn't think I needed anything beyond a B550 for a daily driver, as all the CPUs where unlocked and FLCK limited, until the 5800X3d :/


----------



## OCmember

Is it normal for I/O clock speed (NBIO LCLK) to bounce around? e.g. I'm currently running all at 2 from a manual setting but the clock bounces around from 593 to 485 etc. It's steady if I set all to 1 @ 302


----------



## slayer6288

@tcclaviger I have a 3090Ti EVGA ultra and a dark hero. Am I probably limited to 102.8 bclk also like you or do u think I can push higher? Any tips? the cpu comes tuesday for me so just getting prepared. Also using 2 2tb 970 evo plus nvme drives.


----------



## PG705

Do you think it the X3D is the first Ryzen cpu where it is beneficial to run memory unsynced with the fclk and at higher speeds (4400+) since the cache helps compensating for the latency penalty? I will install my 5800X3D tomorrow on a B550-F Wifi board, and I have some 4x8GB B-die laying around. Not sure what to do with the memory. Any advice?


----------



## Nighthog

Found that my 5800X3D will give WHEA errors with 1.05VSOC @ 1900FCLK on the X570 XTREME.

Had to raise VSOC to 1.100V for them to not appear at all that I can see. Was the only change needed to fix it. Didn't see the same issue with WHEA for 1900FCLK on the MSI Unify-X MAX.


----------



## ossimc

so i tried bclk on my CH7 today (as is just leaned it has one of those external clock generators^^)
i can set the BCLK to 101.8 and it runs just fine. But set to 102 the multiplier will stay at x34-->no boost
why is that?

also i cant find the synchronous/asynchronous option in the BIOS anymore. so i guess ASUS ditched it to prevent OC the X3D?


----------



## LtMatt

Here's my best tuned timings setup for the 5800X3D running SOTTR lowest settings.









6900 XTXH Overclocked









3090 Overclocked


----------



## tcclaviger

OCmember said:


> Is it normal for I/O clock speed (NBIO LCLK) to bounce around? e.g. I'm currently running all at 2 from a manual setting but the clock bounces around from 593 to 485 etc. It's steady if I set all to 1 @ 302


Yes, normal Zen 3 behavior. LCLK is typically dynamic.



slayer6288 said:


> @tcclaviger I have a 3090Ti EVGA ultra and a dark hero. Am I probably limited to 102.8 bclk also like you or do u think I can push higher? Any tips? the cpu comes tuesday for me so just getting prepared. Also using 2 2tb 970 evo plus nvme drives.


You sir/ma'am, should leave bclk at exactly 100, no more, no less. 970s are known bastards about raised BCLK. That said, no, the BCLK upper limit will be motherboard/GPU pair specific. My 3080ti is damaged and stuck at 8x, so it's impossible for me to say if the 102.8 limit is the result of the damage or the design.

Regarding memory, same tune as all other Zen 3. Shoot for 3800/1900 C14, beyond that shows diminishing returns. I fall in a smaller category who feel memory speed on X3D is more crucial not less than X Zen 3.

It's less frequently memory bottlenecked, but those scenarios when it is memory bottlenecked, the impact is worse due to extra latency vs X model Zen 3, which is then further negatively impacted by slower core speed. For this reason I use the same strategy, max speed/min latency achievable with stability



ossimc said:


> so i tried bclk on my CH7 today (as is just leaned it has one of those external clock generators^^)
> i can set the BCLK to 101.8 and it runs just fine. But set to 102 the multiplier will stay at x34-->no boost
> why is that?
> 
> also i cant find the synchronous/asynchronous option in the BIOS anymore. so i guess ASUS ditched it to prevent OC the X3D?


Set these options in bios:
AMD CBS > CPU Common > Global Cstates Enabled.
Force OC Mode Disable Enabled

Sadly the days of asynchronous are gone on AMD because of direct connection to the CPU with the GPU, there's no way to separate the clocks without putting a chip between them, what we used to call the North Bridge.



LtMatt said:


> Here's my best tuned timings setup for the 5800X3D running SOTTR lowest settings.
> View attachment 2562348
> 
> 
> 6900 XTXH Overclocked
> View attachment 2562349
> 
> 
> 3090 Overclocked
> View attachment 2562350


Nice work Matt. Had a hell of a time running some of your scores down on 3dmark, seems like a good XTXH sample you've got there!



CyberBongi said:


> You are obviously right that it ain't worth it unless it's a must. But like can't we find a good BCLK, like I wish that there was a rule that -x from bootable BCLK would result in a stable one.
> Right now I don't care too much about corruption, it's my gaming rig, but in 5 months I am starting my engineering degree, I don't want corrupted stuff lol.


Regarding Xeizo's fear of Overclocking: he/she is a very conservative OCer. Post history paints a clear picture.

Pick your poison on who to listen to on OCn.

There's nothing wrong with being conservative about overclocking, but OCing is fundamentally nonconformist, so highly conservative thinkers naturally take issue with the risky part because it's their nature.

There is however, something wrong with making up stories and trying to influence others with fud, as is the case with "always leads to data corruption".


----------



## slayer6288

domdtxdissar said:


> Yeah i ran static 4950/4800mhz allcore in Port Royal with the 5950x
> View attachment 2562156
> 
> Kinda stupid that the 3dmark loading screen is the hardest to pass in regards to cpu clocks with my 5950x 😆
> 
> 5800x3d at "stock 4450mhz" (and one 3090 boost-bin lower than 5950x run)
> View attachment 2562170
> 
> 
> _off-topic_
> Ordering a AM5 build first chance i get
> Have the following hardware ready: (new TechN block and custom DDR5 cooling)
> View attachment 2562158
> 
> 
> In regards to the (subpar) >15% performance increase claim:
> 
> Robert covers some of the stuff in that TPU interview, but there's a bunch more info he goes over in nuanced detail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The thing that AMD has always endeavored to do is to publish numbers that are highly reproducible and we tend to err on the conservative side. On purpose. We don't want to disappoint. We'd like to be realistic. It is worth saying that this is still early in the life of making these CPUs real. 3 months, 4 months, however long it takes to get to Fall. It doesn't seem like a long time, but it's a long time in terms of finalizing CPUs. So we guided greater than 15 because we definitely know it will be higher than 15, but how much higher will depend. And I will also say that there are multiple ways we're being conservative. As an example, the *Zen 3 is a good analogy here. If you think back to our introduction of that architecture, we said on the whole that the 19% IPC uplift some were single digits, some were higher than that, but the geomean 19-20% and I feel that it is a widely accepted value. But if you look at Cinebench in particular, it was only 8, 9, 10%? So we used Cinebench at Computex,* and I'm not promising that there is this massive IPC uplift across the board. I don't know yet, I haven't seen the numbers. All we've given is a tiny window into the world of what the chip can do. I am very optimistic about its performance, and there is a lot more to say, but you know, getting over 15% with a prototype part is not bad. More to come." [emphasis mine]
> 
> About the community on the 15%:
> "I've seen some angst on that 15% number and I want to touch on that again. You know I can't go too deep into it. I want to say we were conservative on that number in 4 or 5 unique ways, and just give us the benefit of the doubt. I think we've earned it. We really try hard to make sure we deliver exactly as promised or often times a lot more than promised, so let's see how the summer goes before drawing conclusions. I think Zen 4 and the 7000 series will be extremely potent. It's a hellova upgrade. Give it time."
> 
> Edit: Here's AMD's Zen 3 IPC plot again. Not sure where CB R23 falls on this plot but....
> View attachment 2562160
> 
> 
> As for the blender numbers, AMD said 297 seconds for 12900k and 204 seconds for unknown cpu in the 7000 series in the footnotes
> View attachment 2562161
> 
> View attachment 2562174
> 
> This is 31% less time but at the same time 45% faster than ADL ... I think maybe this was a bit clumsy written by AMD, but with the rest of the numbers taken into account, it can look like they are sandbagging again.. Or so i hope atleast


When you said u were back on your 5950x does that mean u gave up on using the 5800x3d for gaming and are just using the 5950x? Or did i read your previous post wrong which is def possible. @domdtxdissar


----------



## tcclaviger

slayer6288 said:


> When you said u were back on your 5950x does that mean u gave up on using the 5800x3d for gaming and are just using the 5950x? Or did i read your previous post wrong which is def possible. @domdtxdissar


5950x went with 6950 just for benchmarking 3dmark as it leans heavily on CPU scores for HoF ranking. Swapped back last night to X3D+6950, 5950x will go with 3080ti for workhorse duty as capture PC/CAD modeling PC, frankly the pair crushes the X3D+6950 in those tasks.

2080ti becomes wall hanging trophy/backup card at this point.


----------



## OCmember

@tcclaviger How do you like the 6950? Been looking for a nice one for a while, my local MC only has the Powercolor... Is it faster than the 3080 Ti? I also have one of those...


----------



## RBLXXXVI

Ooo weee! -30 all clock stable in core-cycler, and now boosting correctly to 4.55 GHz! (Check and double check Bios settings for me it was Cool N Quiet aka Global C State control, I thought it was on - it wasn't )Now I wonder if there is a way to log maximum boost time %? Not for comparison with different setups here, just as a way for me to see how any future changes I might make would effect things.


----------



## OCmember

Global C-States and Cool N Quiet aka PSS is terrible for gaming


----------



## RBLXXXVI

OCmember said:


> Global C-States and Cool N Quiet aka PSS is terrible for gaming


Yet the 5800X3D won't boost to 4.55GHz without it, perhaps it's not supposed to boost this high anyway (single core)? IDK but this thread and @tcclaviger has said 4.55GHz is to be expected, are you saying this is incorrect / that other people have enabled this boost (on a mobo that doesn't have external clock generator) Without Global C State enabled?


----------



## tcclaviger

45.5 is intended as low load max speed. It's also clearly intended to be hit often based on the voltage applied, it's the opposite of other Zen 3, 1t vcpu is less than nt vcpu.

Global C-State Control enabled is a net gain, in everything for me. Duno, maybe it has to do with combination of Global C states + windows power settings being complementary? Honestly at a loss to why it would negatively impact gaming on X3D.

EDIT: On X sku Zen3, I can definitely understand it becoming a problem as it aggressively puts cores to sleep.



OCmember said:


> @tcclaviger How do you like the 6950? Been looking for a nice one for a while, my local MC only has the Powercolor... Is it faster than the 3080 Ti? I also have one of those...


I wrote below then realized this: the 6950xt should be viewed as a high power Overclocker toy, otherwise 6900xtxh cards make more sense for actual gaming systems. 6950 only pulls ahead when you throw power at it, more than most can cool on water there's no chance on air to cool a firey 6950 at high power. Have observed 680watts board power sustained, not a spike.

Hmm I wish it were a simple binary. Yes and No? On air cooling, 6950, hands down because it's more power efficient per frame and power = heat. On water it's more complex, and becomes an argument of "how much power are you willing to let the cards pull as daily"?

OCd on air at their stock power limits 335/370, they're honestly very similar performance, back and forth.

Once power limits are removed the 6950 is faster in most games but the difference is not major outside benchmarks, and not universal, very game specific.

I prefer AMD vga drivers to Nvidia these days. I prefer MPT to shunt modding. I think NVENC is trash. So naturally the 6950 suits me better as it's a fully unlocked no-nannies card.

For the money, 1100 vs 1250, I'd buy the 6950 before the 3080ti. As a 3080ti owner it's more of a slight improvement to speed and side grade to get away from Nvidia.


----------



## OCmember

@RBLXXXVI just saying it isn't good for gaming.. probably in my own case scenario. I can feel the slight input delay... could possibly be due to how my system is setup I don't know but I always feel it when i return to test it out.

@tcclaviger Cool. I'm a hardware junkie so I'm always curious. I also have an xtxh and it's a very nice card.. I believe it's better than the Ti I was using for a while. and the software is nice. I get an occasional wattman crash but it's not a problem: haven't used the OC bios on it yet or overclocked it or anything.


----------



## PJVol

tcclaviger said:


> Global C-State Control enabled is a net gain, in everything for me


That's by design. Having a certain number of cores in CC6, max boost is incerased for the cores in CC0 - they call it *C-state boost*.


----------



## yzonker

LtMatt said:


> Here's my best tuned timings setup for the 5800X3D running SOTTR lowest settings.
> View attachment 2562348
> 
> 
> 6900 XTXH Overclocked
> View attachment 2562349
> 
> 
> 3090 Overclocked
> View attachment 2562350



That's interesting. I had noticed that segment in the middle of the run where my 3090 falls behind. Even pushing my 3090 to the limit (KP 1kw bios, max VF curve), it still falls slightly behind in that area. Looks like the AMD card easily handles that.


----------



## yzonker

As far as 3080ti vs 6950, that's only true if you don't want to use ray tracing. I would not be happy taking that hit. Great card otherwise though and I'm hoping AMD can close the RT gap next gen.


----------



## LtMatt

tcclaviger said:


> Nice work Matt. Had a hell of a time running some of your scores down on 3dmark, seems like a good XTXH sample you've got there!


Cheers. 

Those scores are quite old now, but were great at the time and still hold up today. I lost interest in synthetic benching since our energy bills have tripled since last October. Just stick to playing and benching games these days. 



yzonker said:


> That's interesting. I had noticed that segment in the middle of the run where my 3090 falls behind. Even pushing my 3090 to the limit (KP 1kw bios, max VF curve), it still falls slightly behind in that area. Looks like the AMD card easily handles that.


Yes the 6900 XT is better in this scenario in this game, which is a surprise as the game overall favours green.


yzonker said:


> As far as 3080ti vs 6950, that's only true if you don't want to use ray tracing. I would not be happy taking that hit. Great card otherwise though and I'm hoping AMD can close the RT gap next gen.


Backs up my findings too for the most part. Anything using really heavy RT, the 3090 wins. Anything the opposite, the 6900 XT wins. The 6900 XT also overclocks a lot better. It's nice to have both in case there is a particular RT heavy game I want to play like Dying Light 2. 

For the most part though I use the 6900 XT daily as there are not very many RT heavy games I am interested in and main game is COD/Warzone series and 6900 XT spanks the 3090 (and the 3090 TI) heavily in that game with Smart Access Memory (SAM) and the 5800X3D.


----------



## Sparrow1408

RBLXXXVI said:


> Yet the 5800X3D won't boost to 4.55GHz without it


I disabled it on my system. It messes with voltage to drop vcore while the processor is ideal to keep the system running cooler. I set a -15 offset with high LLC to do that. There are pros/cons to enabling the feature. How many single core applications are out there where that 45.5x multiplayer will make a difference though?



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool%27n%27Quiet


----------



## LtMatt

What are the recommended settings for y cruncher for stability testing and how long does it take to complete?


----------



## Luggage

yzonker said:


> As far as 3080ti vs 6950, that's only true if you don't want to use ray tracing. I would not be happy taking that hit. Great card otherwise though and I'm hoping AMD can close the RT gap next gen.


Yea the xtxh Red Devil Ultimate is by far the cheapest of 3080ti, 6900xt, 6950xt here rn and I’m soo tempted - but I like the shiny(tm)


----------



## Luggage

LtMatt said:


> What are the recommended settings for y cruncher for stability testing and how long does it take to complete?
> View attachment 2562388


1-7-0
It runs until you stop it - over night is usually ok.
Have gotten errors after 3+ hours…


----------



## ossimc

OCmember said:


> Global C-States and Cool N Quiet aka PSS is terrible for gaming


why? can you measure a difference?
without PSS i only see higher idle power draw. but mybe i miss something

@*tcclaviger*
you sir are a real goldmine

quick question. where do i find in win event-log which core crashed. i got a random reboot during CB20 single run with bclk 101.8 curve-30 and vcore offset +0.0125


----------



## tcclaviger

ossimc said:


> why? can you measure a difference?
> without PSS i only see higher idle power draw. but mybe i miss something
> 
> @*tcclaviger*
> you sir are a real goldmine
> 
> quick question. where do i find in win event-log which core crashed. i got a random reboot during CB20 single run with bclk 101.8 curve-30 and vcore offset +0.0125


If it recorded one, look in event log for processor APIC ID event, Administrative Events. If I remember correctly Core # will be (APIC ID-1)/2 rounded up, eg APIC ID 8or9 is core 4, APIC ID 6or7 is core 3, APIC ID 2or3 is core 1.



yzonker said:


> As far as 3080ti vs 6950, that's only true if you don't want to use ray tracing. I would not be happy taking that hit. Great card otherwise though and I'm hoping AMD can close the RT gap next gen.


While it's true that Ampere has indisputably stronger RT, if you look at x3D Port Royal top 100...you'll find a lone Navi 21 present, and it's buried solidly in the middle of a bunch of 3080tis.

It's stronger than 2080ti/3070ti RT performance, landing closer to OCd 3080 than 3070ti, even when running more conservative OC settings where I get right around 12000 in PR on the 6950.

At this point I submit, RT performance comes down to Dev implementation more than anything. Looking between various games some are absolutely gutted even on a 3090ti with RT ultra vs off, while other games take noted but not drastic hit, CP2077 vs Metro Enhanced for example.

RT will likely go the way of many technologies before it, becoming a complete non-issue, like Tess and GI did after a couple generations.



Sparrow1408 said:


> I disabled it on my system. It messes with voltage to drop vcore while the processor is ideal to keep the system running cooler. I set a -15 offset with high LLC to do that. There are pros/cons to enabling the feature. How many single core applications are out there where that 45.5x multiplayer will make a difference though?
> 
> 
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool%27n%27Quiet


Pretty much everything categorized as "light use" benefits from peak 1t speeds. That and stuff outside X3D scope...Blender modeling, Adobe anything etc, so kind of 5900/5950 preferred use cases heh. In games...probably only older stuff, stuff that any current gen CPU will crush and send in stupid high fps zone.

I'll be the first to admit it, the differences are generally small, but in a blind test I'm positive I could spot my system at stock speed vs OCd without running a single BM or game, just based on windows snap and responsiveness.

I'm hyper picky about how PCs run though....I don't want to wait, it should do what I ask the instant I demand it lol.


----------



## lunatik

ossimc said:


> why? can you measure a difference?
> without PSS i only see higher idle power draw. but mybe i miss something


I don't know how to measure a difference, but it has always caused latency/packet loss issues for me in multi core games (warzone).
Might be related to network adapter too tho, RSS maybe? Anyway with c states off, they are completely gone.


----------



## LtMatt

Played around with my CAD timings from earlier and looking good so far stability wise.

1.53 VDIMM.









EDIT - A short while later...


----------



## OCmember

AMD Performance Tuning Guide



https://developer.amd.com/wp-content/resources/56263-Performance-Tuning-Guidelines-PUB.pdf


----------



## ilmazzo

What should we expect from a 2018 NDA document that was not already analyzed in the last 4 years by ocers? Anyway, thanks for sharing...


----------



## Voltage45

OCmember said:


> AMD Performance Tuning Guide
> 
> 
> 
> https://developer.amd.com/wp-content/resources/56263-Performance-Tuning-Guidelines-PUB.pdf


it's from 2018 and for EPYC.none useful.my england is bad so one of your guys should made a x3d tweak guide and show it in another thread.whenever someone came and said "hey i just got the x3d what should i do?" then you'll show another thread.there is more thread than this for oc for memory for tweak.this thread only use for "hey i just made a benchmark for fun" or "how do you do".ppl trying to learn something from here but they can't cos it looks like gordion's node.


----------



## OCmember

From the Performance Tuning Guide "_C-States can be a source of jitter during the process of state transition. Disable all c-states._"

I'm not trying to contradict anyone just saying for gaming it's better to have it disabled. EDIT: correction, it's terrible for gaming (using C-States)


----------



## ossimc

are we talking about DF c-states, global c-states or both? and PSS?
i just diasbled everyone of these and my X3D is still boosting fine. isnt it supposed to NOT boost with global disabled?

anyhow...im done testing stuff for now and wait for my new X570 Board


----------



## LtMatt

Hmm, just realised I appear to be suffering from the boost issue. Lightly threaded apps are not boosting to 45.5. It was working earlier, but all of a sudden I'm only seeing 4.45. Clear CMOS has not fixed it. Might have to try reflashing the BIOS as I am out of ideas.

EDIT - Got boost back working. Not sure really sure. Took a few Windows restarts and CMOS Clears, didn't end up having to update the BIOS. Weird.


----------



## ocisdead

ossimc said:


> are we talking about DF c-states, global c-states or both? and PSS?
> i just diasbled everyone of these and my X3D is still boosting fine. isnt it supposed to NOT boost with global disabled?
> 
> anyhow...im done testing stuff for now and wait for my new X570 Board


Did you order a new motherboard hoping to solve the input lag you were experiencing with the 5800X3D or did you already find a fix for that?


----------



## LtMatt

Managed to break the 400 FPS game average in SOTTR using the settings posted earlier. GPU score is a couple of FPS lower than my best of 392 though, but warm system.


----------



## Terepin

Nighthog said:


> Swapped over the *5800X3D* to my main AORUS *X570 XTREME* system with the RX 6900 XT.
> Seeing some wonky behaviour at the moment.
> 
> *CPU-Z* is struggling with ~*6100*points multi & *620*points single core.
> Also getting bluescreen at windows load screen with pretty mild memory settings. Seems something isn't getting set correctly with it.
> Though I didn't need to Reset BIOS at first. Booted up on first try when I changed out from the 5700G.
> 
> The Gigabyte board doesn't delete your saved profiles with the 5800X3D like the Unify-X MAX did. That is so helpful but seeing kinda bad performance thus far.
> 
> Going to be needing to troubleshoot this.


Mine is even worse. While the multicore points are cca the same, the single core points barely reach 600. Oh and the CPU reaches 4550 Mhz only for a split second.


----------



## ossimc

ocisdead said:


> Did you order a new motherboard hoping to solve the input lag you were experiencing with the 5800X3D or did you already find a fix for that?


Yeah my messed up windows was causing problems.
I don't really need a new board but with the x570 i maybe can get ram 4000mhz to run


----------



## RBLXXXVI

I've noticed today that my 5800X3D isn't boosting single core to 4.55 MHz again, I've just decided to wait it out and see what happens with further updates. It's quite likely there's a bug somewhere that's causing this I guess, but I don't have any issues beyond that so I'm not too bothered. Anyway my point is/was that just because you're not getting the "full" boost that's no sign that your 5800X3D has a problem as it seems to be pretty random and maybe motherboard / bios related.


----------



## bmagnien

RBLXXXVI said:


> I've noticed today that my 5800X3D isn't boosting single core to 4.55 MHz again, I've just decided to wait it out and see what happens with further updates. It's quite likely there's a bug somewhere that's causing this I guess, but I don't have any issues beyond that so I'm not too bothered. Anyway my point is/was that just because you're not getting the "full" boost that's no sign that your 5800X3D has a problem as it seems to be pretty random and maybe motherboard / bios related.


Having the same issue. Was hitting 4.55 regularly across all cores individually with 1.2.0.6b/c and 1.2.0.7 when it first came out without even trying. And now for whatever reason I’ve not seen 4.55 again, just stuck at 4.45 multi (if temps are low enough) and then during the corecyxler avx2 test some cores get up to about 4.51, but never pegged at 4.55. Not a big deal but definitely something wonky going on. I’ve reset bios, reflashed, and tried turning cstates on and off, as well as cycling through those powerplans posted earlier, but 4.55 remains unreachable while it was easily achieved a short time ago for seemingly no reason. I’m hoping non-beta 1.2.0.7 will fix? Who knows


----------



## LtMatt

Use this app (Boosttester.exe) to check using HWINFO64 to see if most or all of your cores are hitting 4.55Ghz.
Releases · jedi95/BoostTester · GitHub


----------



## bmagnien

LtMatt said:


> Use this app (Boosttester.exe) to check using HWINFO64 to see if most or all of your cores are hitting 4.55Ghz.
> Releases · jedi95/BoostTester · GitHub


Thanks for that! Much easier to use. Still hitting only 4450.1 on all cores. On the other hand, it seems I've traded off the ST boost in favor of some extra MT performance, check out the CBR23 score I just got (just ambient closed loop):


----------



## LtMatt

bmagnien said:


> Thanks for that! Much easier to use. Still hitting only 4450.1 on all cores. On the other hand, it seems I've traded off the ST boost in favor of some extra MT performance, check out the CBR23 score I just got (just ambient closed loop):
> View attachment 2562443


Try clearing CMOS a few times and booting back into Windows with default settings. Then create a new BIOS profile using your previous settings. This fixed it for me and touch wood been fine since.


----------



## bmagnien

LtMatt said:


> Try clearing CMOS a few times and booting back into Windows with default settings. Then create a new BIOS profile using your previous settings. This fixed it for me and touch wood been fine since.


I’ll try that - did all of that except booting windows with default settings - will report back


----------



## Kashtan

About performance Vermeer-X in SOTTR - 300 vs 236 12900K ! 
But in Starcraft - Windows 11 not correct manages his threads, in this video we are can see - disable SMT on 5900X make this CPU in 1% and 0.1% even perform then 12900K !


----------



## reantum

My Viper Steel 4400MHz CL19 rams. It passed the 2-hour tests using the [email protected] and 1usmus_v3 configs. No Whea, No Errors. I went back to the 06c bios because I was having temperature, voltage and stability issues. I don't think 0.7 is stable.


60ns.


----------



## bmagnien

@LtMatt going back to a cleared BIOS and starting from scratch, I can confirm that the culprit is Global C States. If it's set to disabled, no boosting over 4.45. As soon as it's set to enabled, corebooster.exe would hit about 4.54 on every core. So - for anyone stuck at 4.45 - triple check Global C State is set to Enabled, not Auto or Disabled. Thanks!


----------



## RedF

bmagnien said:


> @LtMatt going back to a cleared BIOS and starting from scratch, I can confirm that the culprit is Global C States. If it's set to disabled, no boosting over 4.45. As soon as it's set to enabled, corebooster.exe would hit about 4.54 on every core. So - for anyone stuck at 4.45 - triple check Global C State is set to Enabled, not Auto or Disabled. Thanks!


Same for me on the Aorus Master x570s. C-state off no boost above 4.45. C&Q off no boost at all.


----------



## xProlific

I think the issue that was preventing me from boosting to 45.5 was the use of hidusbf to overclock a ps5 controller to 1000 polling rate which is actually equals a true polling rate of 8k for this controller. I had to scale back to 250 polling rate in the program for the controller which equates to true 1k. If you have mouse or device that polls over 1000hz this may be what is preventing you from hitting 45.5.


----------



## LtMatt

bmagnien said:


> @LtMatt going back to a cleared BIOS and starting from scratch, I can confirm that the culprit is Global C States. If it's set to disabled, no boosting over 4.45. As soon as it's set to enabled, corebooster.exe would hit about 4.54 on every core. So - for anyone stuck at 4.45 - triple check Global C State is set to Enabled, not Auto or Disabled. Thanks!


You are welcome, good find!


----------



## tcclaviger

Kashtan said:


> About performance Vermeer-X in SOTTR - 300 vs 236 12900K !
> But in Starcraft - Windows 11 not correct manages his threads, in this video we are can see - disable SMT on 5900X make this CPU in 1% and 0.1% even perform then 12900K !


A very valid point, many games do prefer SMT off and see abnormal increases in performance when it is disabled. One way to work around this is using a shortcut to launch the game(s) in question that contains affinity restrictions in the shortcut. It lets you keep SMT enabled and usually gives the same performance as disabled SMT.

This is a reasonable guide on creating them, I use the method for some games as well, Star Citizen being one which prefers 1 thread for physical:








How to Set Process CPU Affinity or Priority Permanently in Windows 11/10


This tutorial will show you how to set a process's CPU affinity and/or Priority permanently in Windows 11 or Windows 10 via shortcut.




www.windowsdigitals.com







xProlific said:


> I think the issue that was preventing me from boosting to 45.5 was the use of hidusbf to overclock a ps5 controller to 1000 polling rate which is actually equals a true polling rate of 8k for this controller. I had to scale back to 250 polling rate in the program for the controller which equates to true 1k. If you have mouse or device that polls over 1000hz this may be what is preventing you from hitting 45.5.


Good find, and makes sense.

To be transparent, the only reason I ever started changing global C-State Control setting from Auto to Enabled was BCLK OCing. Beyond 101 BCLK it needs to be set to enabled to preserve correct boost behavior, otherwise the SMU starts doing compensation or the board interprets Auto as disabled (not sure which) and the increased BCLK isn't used correctly.

I just tested with Global C-state Control Disabled + 106 BCLk, yep stuck at 44.5.

With Global C-State Control Disabled and 100 BCLK, 44.5.

With Global C-State Control on Auto or Enabled, 45.5 with 100 BCLK. Has to be set Enabled for 106 BCLK to get 45.5.

In ZenPTmonitor this can be observed at Peak_CCLK_FREQ in "freq" section. If the value there while idle is 44.5, you'll never go over 44.5.

If the value there is 45.5, but you're only getting 44.5, something else is interfering with 1T boost, like the USB issue.













reantum said:


> View attachment 2562466
> 
> 
> My Viper Steel 4400MHz CL19 rams. It passed the 2-hour tests using the [email protected] and 1usmus_v3 configs. No Whea, No Errors. I went back to the 06c bios because I was having temperature, voltage and stability issues. I don't think 0.7 is stable.
> 
> 
> 60ns.


Nice work. Never ceases to surprise me what some MSI and GB boards can get away with regarding timings while maintaining stability.


----------



## tcclaviger

Just 1 more thing occurred to me on 44.5 vs 45.5.

Setting BCLK to 100, instead of auto or DOCP, may cause some motherboards to switch to their external clock generator. If it does then global C states must be set to enable or it will get stuck at 44.5.

To my limited understanding of Zen:

By design the global C-States are supposed to be active. As I understand it, it's what allows Zen to divert power to the boosting cores while others are put into the lowest power state. Disabling it may improve CPU wide package latency as observed in warzone testing, but to see a gain in performance it needs to be a scenario where latency is more important than clock speed.

These scenarios are by definition edge cases, which is when we can be happy that the option to disable is included, knowingly trading raw clock speed for improved latency due to inhibition of core sleep gating.

I have a suspicion that leaving it enabled and using a windows power setting to block the deepest sleep state while the program in question is active would yield best of both worlds. I've never done so and can't guide doing it, but I know the functionality exists in Windows to do it using hidden power state change threshold options.


----------



## LtMatt

tcclaviger said:


> Just 1 more thing occurred to me on 44.5 vs 45.5.
> 
> Setting BCLK to 100, instead of auto or DOCP, may cause some motherboards to switch to their external clock generator. If it does then global C states must be set to enable or it will get stuck at 44.5.
> 
> To my limited understanding of Zen:
> 
> By design the global C-States are supposed to be active. As I understand it, it's what allows Zen to divert power to the boosting cores while others are put into the lowest power state. Disabling it may improve CPU wide package latency as observed in warzone testing, but to see a gain in performance it needs to be a scenario where latency is more important than clock speed.
> 
> These scenarios are by definition edge cases, which is when we can be happy that the option to disable is included, knowingly trading raw clock speed for improved latency due to inhibition of core sleep gating.
> 
> I have a suspicion that leaving it enabled and using a windows power setting to block the deepest sleep state while the program in question is active would yield best of both worlds. I've never done so and can't guide doing it, but I know the functionality exists in Windows to do it.


Interesting post mate. I’ve never tried disabling C states in Warzone. Do you have any data on vs off to share?

I tested Win 10 vs Win 11 and found Win 10 marginally faster. I also tested SMT off and found it hurt performance significantly in Warzone with a CPU render count of 4.


----------



## tcclaviger

I have not, but I think it's ossmic and lunatik who noticed a difference, the whole idea seems very plausible to me but like a very small difference in performance.

From a user perspective this is a thing which should either be written into the GPU drivers or manifest as an in game option along the lines of Prioritize: Render or Latency toggle.

To be honest with out huge amounts of testing I'm not even sure how you would verify the difference with the variance of servers etc.


----------



## tcclaviger

bmagnien said:


> Having the same issue. Was hitting 4.55 regularly across all cores individually with 1.2.0.6b/c and 1.2.0.7 when it first came out without even trying. And now for whatever reason I’ve not seen 4.55 again, just stuck at 4.45 multi (if temps are low enough) and then during the corecyxler avx2 test some cores get up to about 4.51, but never pegged at 4.55. Not a big deal but definitely something wonky going on. I’ve reset bios, reflashed, and tried turning cstates on and off, as well as cycling through those powerplans posted earlier, but 4.55 remains unreachable while it was easily achieved a short time ago for seemingly no reason. I’m hoping non-beta 1.2.0.7 will fix? Who knows


I also never see 45.5 solid, max of 45.5 for a fraction of a second then floating between 45.1 and 45.4, using 1206B, 1206C or 1207. I've eliminated temperature, and basically all possible BIOS configurations as the cause, so, it hints at AGESA or Windows/Driver or could even be a peripheral polling rate issue as discovered by Kashtan.

To study 1T boost behavior I prefer CPUz for a number of reasons, but mainly, it avoids the windows thread juggling issue present in CB and other 1T tests.

If you look around at various websites launch reviews, you find a disparity exists between the 1T CPU boost behavior, visible in the CPUz 1T test scores. Highest I've seen reported for stock X3D is 631, and lowest 614 from media. Someone in this thread was getting I think 629 stock, mine does 622 stock, while others have reported between 615 and 625 pretty frequently.

CPUz isn't really a super useful tool, but it is pretty consistent and universal across systems. So if we take 631/4550mhz = 0.13868131868131868131868131868132‬ we can get a "perfect efficiency" factor, using this score as it's the highest I'm aware of with 100BCLK + 45.5 multi. So applying that to your score you can find what your effective average clock speed through the test is.

At 106 BCLK CPUz gives me 661 (busy OS)-667.6(bare OS). Using 667.6 / 0.13868131868131868131868131868132‬ for average effective speed of 4814mhz, or, an average effective multiplier of 45.405, consistent with other observed behavior. This is obviously impacted by other things running in windows so needs to be done on a "bare" OS, absolutely nothing running, including explorer and all the explorer derivative tasks, security, firewall etc disabled.

This could almost certainly be improved if we had access to the Scalar function of PBO, but X3D for me stays much closer to max possible multiplier than my 5950x does through the workload. AMD only claims a max speed of 45, so the extra 0.5 is the "bonus" range anyways.



bmagnien said:


> Thanks for that! Much easier to use. Still hitting only 4450.1 on all cores. On the other hand, it seems I've traded off the ST boost in favor of some extra MT performance, check out the CBR23 score I just got (just ambient closed loop):
> View attachment 2562443


Nice, very close to perfect 44.5 all core through whole test duration.


----------



## tcclaviger

While I'm thinking CPU, here is some reading for those who are concerned with the V-Cache degradation potential and the worry about raising clocks if you've never read on it before this is a good start:
Info about Electron Migration

One quote in particular, from section 3.2.5:
_One of the most often considered environmental influences is the temperature [112,113,114]. High temperatures in silicon devices lead to changes of the device parameters and to accelerated device degradation [115,116,117]. It has to be ensured that cooling is properly designed for all environmental temperatures that can be expected [118]. Since most degradation mechanisms are thermally activated, elevated temperatures during usage decrease the lifetime of the device. A proper buffer in the design is needed to ensure design goals._


----------



## xProlific

On my Asus DH motherboard notice a HUGE difference in system responsiveness / snappiness when setting *CPU Power Duty Control* to *Extreme* which enables all CPU VRM phases all the time regardless of load. I think this is because electrical current is more readily available for the CPU to draw on when needed and as a result the CPU is able to boost more quickly.

Anyone have experience with these power settings and if this is the recommended configuration? @Veii, @Blameless, or others? I ask because I did not expect such a big difference. It is so noticeable that I have to set the windows power plan to balanced as ultra feels too loose in game.


----------



## jonRock1992

Regarding CPU-Z 1T testing, if you're using a 240Hz monitor, this will affect 1T scores in my testing. Setting the refresh rate to 60Hz vs. 240Hz usually nets me +5 more 1T score.


----------



## tcclaviger

jonRock1992 said:


> Regarding CPU-Z 1T testing, if you're using a 240Hz monitor, this will affect 1T scores in my testing. Setting the refresh rate to 60Hz vs. 240Hz usually nets me +5 more 1T score.


Interesting....off to check lol.
EDIT: Confirmed going from 165hz to 60hz did actually improve both nT and 1T scores a tiny bit. When validating things it makes sense. Thanks for the tip. 668.1/6938.3 vs 667.6/6933, and undoing it reverts it so...valid change.

Tried at 100bclk and auto voltages out of curiosity...630.8/6535.1 using 60hz, higher than I've ever seen at stock CPU speeds. So I'm guessing this contributes to the media review variance as well.

Actually...I'm now very curious about other BMs....that last fraction of a percent in some things I could never figure out vs some people's scores....

Yep: Drop all USB devices, 60hz, just KB mouse 1 monitor and...631.2/6552.1. At 106 jumps to 669.6/6947.8, this explains a lot of the score variance I was obaerving. Muwahahaha this pleases me so much.

@xProlific Haven't tested auto settings, but I always run Asus Digi+ at extreme settings with 140% current capability and manual phase frequency set to max allowed for the VRM, always have as it seems silly to me to save 5w of power by putting VRM phases idle. Will try adjusting and see if it induces a change in behavior.


----------



## jonRock1992

tcclaviger said:


> Interesting....off to check lol.
> EDIT: Confirmed going from 165hz to 60hz did actually improve both nT and 1T scores a tiny bit. When validating things it makes sense. Thanks for the tip.
> 
> @xProlific Haven't tested auto settings, but I always run Asus Digi+ at extreme settings with 140% current capability and manual phase frequency set to max allowed for the VRM, always have as it seems silly to me to save 5w of power by putting VRM phases idle. Will try adjusting and see if it induces a change in behavior.


Cool cool. Let me know if you notice the same behavior.


----------



## bmagnien

tcclaviger said:


> CPUz isn't really a super useful tool, but it is pretty consistent and universal across systems. So if we take 631/4550mhz = 0.13868131868131868131868131868132‬ we can get a "perfect efficiency" factor, using this score as it's the highest I'm aware of with 100BCLK + 45.5 multi. So applying that to your score you can find what your effective average clock speed through the test is.


CPU-Z is super weird though. Forced affinity to Core 0 so if your Core 0 is your best core vs someone's where it's their worst, that'll be a big 1T difference. Also - if you start the bench, then click back over to the CPU tab and let it finish, your scores will go up noticeably. Add on to that the framerate reduction cheese listed above...it seems wildly inconsistent.

Was able to hit 634 and 6564 with no BCLK overclock (my x570i doesnt have an external clockgen) - but with -30 all core in PBO2


----------



## tcclaviger

Yeah, didn't know about CPU tab thing, will check and see, all these cheezy things lol. I guess I was living under a rock. Sure enough CPU tab adds to score....672.5/6966.3 at 106 BCLK and 634.3/6560.8 at 100 BCLK.

Yes, the core 0 bias creates its own issues regarding best core on chip. With x3D it shouldn't matter as much as other Zen 3s since all cores should be 45.5 capable.

Very interesting indeed. Thinking observer effect is, in fact, precluding viewing 45.5 sustained. 634 1T seems like it might be actually 45.5 solid as 672.5 and 634.3 are in line with the math at 45.5xbclk.

If I had more +reps to give perpost I would to you both lol.

This also makes me realize a 30hz CRT + batch file benchmark script with no peripherals whatsoever is probably the ideal method for WR attempts.



xProlific said:


> On my Asus DH motherboard notice a HUGE difference in system responsiveness / snappiness when setting *CPU Power Duty Control* to *Extreme* which enables all CPU VRM phases all the time regardless of load. I think this is because electrical current is more readily available for the CPU to draw on when needed and as a result the CPU is able to boost more quickly.
> 
> Anyone have experience with these power settings and if this is the recommended configuration? @Veii, @Blameless, or others? I ask because I did not expect such a big difference. It is so noticeable that I have to set the windows power plan to balanced as ultra feels too loose in game.


Did some VRM config testing, can't find any difference, big old but here, BUT, Auto in bios could = extreme on my board and not on yours. This wouldn't surprise me given the absolute full ****** level Asus went to on C8E VRM.

On Strix x570 II X3D wasn't even waking up full VRM under max load, 3 channels stayed at idle at all times unless VRM was set to full phase in bios.

Will check other resources as well. This seems to indicate the ideal setting is indeed Extreme as long as temps are ok (presumably so given low draw of X3D vs capacity of DH VRM). It's not for a DH, but Asus is fairly consistent in bios behavior.
Asus Article 

To verify you can measure with DMM from inductor to ground while operating and check for output on each phase or use an IR gun and check each inductor temp under load. The least active ones are typically top right side.


----------



## xProlific

tcclaviger said:


> @xProlific Haven't tested auto settings, but I always run Asus Digi+ at extreme settings with 140% current capability and manual phase frequency set to max allowed for the VRM, always have as it seems silly to me to save 5w of power by putting VRM phases idle. Will try adjusting and see if it induces a change in behavior.


This is how I ran my 5900X but with the 5800X3D being locked down due to the chip being more picky with voltage per AMD I decided to wait before messing with these settings. Also with the chip being locked down with no curve optimizer, I do not see any reason to set CPU Current Capability above 100% since Zen performs better when under-volted anyway. 

In fact when I did test CPU Current Capability on this chip at 140% I believe I was getting worse scores in Cinebench when compared to running 100%. I can do a retest to confirm but if my recollection is correct then this was the case.


----------



## tcclaviger

Where your observations make sense as manifesting with improved performance/responsiveness is the reduction in momentary vdroop as the VRM goes from low phase count to max phase count when loaded vs extreme where it's always available.

Would need someone more intimately knowledgeable at the VRM control signal update rate from CPU to VRM, but logically it makes sense that keeping everything active will perform better than allowing phase shutdown.

Even more so in a scenario where load is swinging wildly from near idle or low load to max or near max load, like some games do. This swinging effect should be visible on an oscilloscope as repeated undershoot and overshoot where i would expect Extreme to still have under/over but less drastic and for shorter durations.

I'm not sure if AMD programed the SMU to ignore initial under/over values or if it chases voltage during that very brief period, but if it is chasing it, it would also support your observations. SMU updates much slower than VRM switching frequency so under/over events would need to be relatively long to to impact clock speed stability.


----------



## Fight Game

So there is a discord for just 5800x3d owners? Either way I guess, if I could get access and some time with someone that can help me tune this 5800x3d to do better than 4.2multi / 4.9single within cpu-z it'd be great. Preferably someone with experience in the MSI bios settings. Or maybe even some comments here I guess. But if it's considered "professional" help, I'd even be willing to pay at this point.
I'll update my system specs listed here since I recently got a couple new parts. I have pretty extensive knowledge of my parts and have previously got my ram a bit higher (but I'm fine with this). I haven't messed a lot with voltages since installing this cpu. I'd like to get this thing boosting multicore better. I've tried about everything listed here I think and regardless what I change, it boosts the same, other than the windows pbo2 tuner software. Changing those from anywhere between -10 and -30 nets me the same small boost over stock. edit:I saw no differences from bios 1.2.0.6c to 1.2.0.7, and going to give the ryzen master tuner a shot next


----------



## Blameless

xProlific said:


> On my Asus DH motherboard notice a HUGE difference in system responsiveness / snappiness when setting *CPU Power Duty Control* to *Extreme* which enables all CPU VRM phases all the time regardless of load. I think this is because electrical current is more readily available for the CPU to draw on when needed and as a result the CPU is able to boost more quickly.
> 
> Anyone have experience with these power settings and if this is the recommended configuration? @Veii, @Blameless, or others? I ask because I did not expect such a big difference. It is so noticeable that I have to set the windows power plan to balanced as ultra feels too loose in game.


I always disable VRM phase shedding if at all possible. Doing so provides cleaner power, won't the CPU's ability to enter c-states, and the increase in low-load VRM power/temps is pretty marginal. That said, I rarely have I seen it affect performance, so I hadn't even though to check for a difference. I suppose it's plausible that it could affect performance/responsiveness on Ryzen, for the reason tcclaviger mentions, but since I have to hexedit saved profiles to change these settings on the board my 5800X3D is in, I'm probably not going to spend the time re-enabling dynamic phases to check.


----------



## tcclaviger

The ideal Asus phase testing board would be the C6H since it has the weakest VRMs of the Crosshairs (though still more than adaqueate for any AM4 CPU), or perhaps x370 Prime.



Fight Game said:


> So there is a discord for just 5800x3d owners? Either way I guess, if I could get access and some time with someone that can help me tune this 5800x3d to do better than 4.2multi / 4.9single within cpu-z it'd be great. Or maybe even some comments here I guess. But if it's considered "professional" help, I'd even be willing to pay at this point.
> I'll update my system specs listed here since I recently got a couple new parts. I have pretty extensive knowledge of my parts and have previously got my ram a bit higher but haven't messed a lot with voltages since installing this cpu. And I'm pretty fine with that but would at least like to get this thing boosting better. I've tried about everything listed here I think and regardless what I change, it boosts the same, other than the windows pbo2 tuner software. Changing those from anywhere between -10 and -30 nets me the same small boost over stock. edit:I really only care about multi core performance


Ignore the media reporting over 5ghz CPU-Z screen shots. It's about as useful as a spare tire on a tank. 

X3D isn't like other Zen 3 chips. There are effectively only 3 clock states:
-Baseclock at 3400, some windows installations will cause this to be slightly higher at 3600.
-4450 for work loads of 3 or more threads.
-4550 for work loads of 1 thread or 2 incredibly light threads.

Anything deviating from these three states means your CPU is running into one of the limiting factors used by Performance Boost 2. The most frequently hit limits on X3D will be volt-freq, FIT voltage, and FIT-PreVoltage, the least common being PPT for most users.

Any software reporting over 4450 or 4550 is wrong unless you've raised the bclk from 100.

For these reasons the best most owners will get is tuning CO as low as possible to maintain as close to the 4450 and 4550 speeds as possible. It helps reduce temps which will reduce how often you are limited by volt-freq limiter, but will also scale the volt-freq curve differently, like adding an offset to Nvidia GPU clocks, also helping hit this limiter less often. It's a win win. 

The only way to avoid hitting FIT Voltage and FIT Pre-Voltage limiter after CO tuning is cold. The colder the CPU is, the less voltage is applied for a given speed/load, meaning it can float at 4450 or 4550 and hit zero limiters other than max multiplier allowed.

I'm not sure if Tomahawk as external clock gen. If it does short version of bclk overclocking:

Set CO to all zero.
Find max bclk you can POST and load windows.
Try running Benchmate Ycruncher 1b and 2.5b at max bclk that will boot, these will hit PPT limit, that's fine.
If stable enough to not crash, check score scaling for clock stretching using benchmark of choice.
If stretching is found, use R23 all core test to check SVI2/TFN voltage, add positive voltage Offset in bios until 1.28vcore is observed during R23.
Check zenPTmonitor and ensure you're not hitting FIT Voltage limiter, if hitting it, reduce offset until no longer hitting limiter in R23 multi.
Use CO now to find how low you can drop each core without stretching, verify stretching does not return due to low voltage.

That is your peak gaming speed. You can force more speed by banging FIT Voltage limiter, but it won't be sustained speed, and benchmarks/stability will regress due to bad relationship of voltage/load/speed.

Realistically on an AIO, I expect this to be right around 103 +/- about 1mhz BCLK, for speeds of 4583/4686, for the majority of X3Ds. 

If you get over 105, you'll find CO needs to be removed completely to avoid stretching and positive offset will need to be added as well for stability.

For over 106...buy a C8E, time for voltage suspension feature.


----------



## Blameless

Tracked the anomalous spikes in tight loop DISPATCH_LEVEL latency to part of AMD's GPU drivers.

This is what it looks like on my system now, after installing only the driver components I actually need:


----------



## Fight Game

tcclaviger said:


> Any software reporting over 4450 or 4550 is wrong unless you've raised the bclk from 100...


Thanks for the reply. I think I'm near my limit. My temps are about 81 under load. Prior to my previous post, I didn't see a difference with bclk at 100 vs having it at my very limited -but passing test at 101.6ish. 102, 103, various to 110 wouldn't even post. Also tested without the 960 evo in the second M.2 with the same results. I should probably focus more on just enjoying it, as I've quickly grown tired of shorting the cmos.....! But I do feel I can get a better all core than 4.2, considering the money I have invested in this thing. So I'll spend a little more time on your suggestions.


----------



## tcclaviger

Blameless said:


> Tracked the anomalous spikes in tight loop DISPATCH_LEVEL latency to part of AMD's GPU drivers.
> 
> This is what it looks like on my system now, after installing only the driver components I actually need:


Very nice. It is shocking how much trash gets pulled into the installer lol.


----------



## ossimc

Kashtan said:


> About performance Vermeer-X in SOTTR - 300 vs 236 12900K !
> But in Starcraft - Windows 11 not correct manages his threads, in this video we are can see - disable SMT on 5900X make this CPU in 1% and 0.1% even perform then 12900K !


i didnt understand a word but its a good test^^

But what makes me thinking: the last game-test (after OC) in Far Cry 6. Can the 12900K really pull ~20% more GPU usage in this game?

about the global c-state: for X3D it would make sense then to leave it disabled since we seeing max of 4450Mhz in games anyway. only if you chase artificial benchmarkscores you leave it enabled to (maybe) make use of the 4550mhz max boost


----------



## the_aeon

I have an Asus X570 Tuf gaming plus, update to AGESA 1207 and I have lost 200mhz in CR20 multicore compared to AGESA 1206, does anyone else have the same?


----------



## robertr1

Using the booster.exe to check effective clocks has been great and happy that my chip is performing as expected. This is -30 CO on all cores.

I've also been testing YC 2.5B and seeing if -30 CO is doing any clock stretching and happily, it's not. -20 for example has lower effective clocks and scores worse.


----------



## reantum

robertr1 said:


> Using the booster.exe to check effective clocks has been great and happy that my chip is performing as expected. This is -30 CO on all cores.
> 
> I've also been testing YC 2.5B and seeing if -30 CO is doing any clock stretching and happily, it's not. -20 for example has lower effective clocks and scores worse.


How did you do that? Can you help me?


----------



## robertr1

reantum said:


> How did you do that? Can you help me?











5800X3D Owners


Use this app (Boosttester.exe) to check using HWINFO64 to see if most or all of your cores are hitting 4.55Ghz. Releases · jedi95/BoostTester · GitHub




www.overclock.net





I used this utility while keeping hwinfo 64 open so I can track what's happening. Made sure no background software etc was running.


----------



## Sparrow1408

This isn't going to be "earth shattering news" to most people but out of curiosity I put my B-Die back in the system last night. The chips scale solidly with voltage, and will do 14-14-14-14-28-42 with a tRFC of 266 at 1.55v with ease; I have not pushed them to their limit because I want to keep voltages as low as possible to balance my build.

Anyway, switching back to Samsung B-Die with "the same" 1900 1:1:1 stability and voltage is about equal to getting Hynix MJR stable at 2000 1:1:1 with lower latency. 

My thinking for upgrading the ram from 2x16 to 2x32 was that as DDR5 Matures in the next few years "the minimum" one will "need" is likely to increase faster then people want to believe. When I load 5 game launchers and other background applications there is about 10GB of ram being used at boot and then the OS likes to cache as much as possible. Until 32GB of ram is actually not enough to avoid hitting the page file (or a BIOS comes out that allows for 2000+ FLCK stability) quality Samsung B-Die seems to hit that efficiency/capacity/speed sweet spot.

If there is interest I may do the testing to add these to the spreadsheet but there are already much better results on there and I'm not interested in running these at 1.5v or above.


----------



## tcclaviger

ossimc said:


> i didnt understand a word but its a good test^^
> 
> But what makes me thinking: the last game-test (after OC) in Far Cry 6. Can the 12900K really pull ~20% more GPU usage in this game?
> 
> about the global c-state: for X3D it would make sense then to leave it disabled since we seeing max of 4450Mhz in games anyway. only if you chase artificial benchmarkscores you leave it enabled to (maybe) make use of the 4550mhz max boost


The result is flawed, visible in CPU usage graphs.

Intel CPU: 1 thread per physical P core.
All AMD CPU: Threads stacked incorrectly (CPPC Preferred is not disabled).

Not the reviewers fault, AMD and Microsoft to blame, just poor thread scheduling. This is a good example of why I suggest disabling that stupid setting, the scenarios where being enabled is better are are few and far between on X3D.

Win10 and Win11 are completely incapable of correct thread direction on all auto setting X3D. We need Windows 12, aka Windows AMD edition.


----------



## ossimc

yeah i was thinking there must be someting wrong. pref cores are always disabled in my bios. i did so much benching to know its superior.

BTW. i just installed my new strix-e gaming wifi II with a 1207 mod-bios. now i can put CO values in the BIOS
i got a little performance boost in single with same settings as the x470 board. Tomorrow im gonna make a fresh win install nonetheless. Still not certain which win to go to. 10 or 11 for more "future-proof". suggestions?^^


----------



## LtMatt

Inching up slowly to 4000Mhz/2000Mhz FCLK. Instability will appear before I get there of that I am sure.


----------



## tcclaviger

ossimc said:


> yeah i was thinking there must be someting wrong. pref cores are always disabled in my bios. i did so much benching to know its superior.
> 
> BTW. i just installed my new strix-e gaming wifi II with a 1207 mod-bios. now i can put CO values in the BIOS
> i got a little performance boost in single with same settings as the x470 board. Tomorrow im gonna make a fresh win install nonetheless. Still not certain which win to go to. 10 or 11 for more "future-proof". suggestions?^^


Not sure it matters at all. Win 11 is reskinned Win 10 with AL optimized scheduler, when I was testing 11 I found 1% or less performance variance to 10.

I'm sure there are outliers that benefit each OS. 11 has more spying crap and more bloat to remove before use so I stuck with 10.


----------



## tcclaviger

jonRock1992 said:


> Cool cool. Let me know if you notice the same behavior.


Your screen refresh trick applies to 3d benchmarks too  TBH I was somewhat surprised but it did boost scores some.


----------



## jonRock1992

tcclaviger said:


> Your screen refresh trick applies to 3d benchmarks too  TBH I was somewhat surprised but it did boost scores some.


i noticed tghat too lol. i used that trick to get over 26k timespy gpu score with my 6900 xt a while back.


----------



## Luggage

tcclaviger said:


> Interesting....off to check lol.
> EDIT: Confirmed going from 165hz to 60hz did actually improve both nT and 1T scores a tiny bit. When validating things it makes sense. Thanks for the tip. 668.1/6938.3 vs 667.6/6933, and undoing it reverts it so...valid change.
> 
> Tried at 100bclk and auto voltages out of curiosity...630.8/6535.1 using 60hz, higher than I've ever seen at stock CPU speeds. So I'm guessing this contributes to the media review variance as well.
> 
> Actually...I'm now very curious about other BMs....that last fraction of a percent in some things I could never figure out vs some people's scores....
> 
> Yep: Drop all USB devices, 60hz, just KB mouse 1 monitor and...631.2/6552.1. At 106 jumps to 669.6/6947.8, this explains a lot of the score variance I was obaerving. Muwahahaha this pleases me so much.
> 
> @xProlific Haven't tested auto settings, but I always run Asus Digi+ at extreme settings with 140% current capability and manual phase frequency set to max allowed for the VRM, always have as it seems silly to me to save 5w of power by putting VRM phases idle. Will try adjusting and see if it induces a change in behavior.


I have two monitors, one old 60Hz and a slightly newer superwide 100Hz. At 60 and 100 my 2080ti idles at 1300MHz. If I set both to 60Hz true GPU idles at 300Mhz…
Power draw goes from 45 to 5ish if I recall correctly.


----------



## Luggage

tcclaviger said:


> Yeah, didn't know about CPU tab thing, will check and see, all these cheezy things lol. I guess I was living under a rock. Sure enough CPU tab adds to score....672.5/6966.3 at 106 BCLK and 634.3/6560.8 at 100 BCLK.
> 
> Yes, the core 0 bias creates its own issues regarding best core on chip. With x3D it shouldn't matter as much as other Zen 3s since all cores should be 45.5 capable.
> 
> Very interesting indeed. Thinking observer effect is, in fact, precluding viewing 45.5 sustained. 634 1T seems like it might be actually 45.5 solid as 672.5 and 634.3 are in line with the math at 45.5xbclk.
> 
> If I had more +reps to give perpost I would to you both lol.
> 
> This also makes me realize a 30hz CRT + batch file benchmark script with no peripherals whatsoever is probably the ideal method for WR attempts.
> 
> 
> 
> Did some VRM config testing, can't find any difference, big old but here, BUT, Auto in bios could = extreme on my board and not on yours. This wouldn't surprise me given the absolute full **** level Asus went to on C8E VRM.
> 
> On Strix x570 II X3D wasn't even waking up full VRM under max load, 3 channels stayed at idle at all times unless VRM was set to full phase in bios.
> 
> Will check other resources as well. This seems to indicate the ideal setting is indeed Extreme as long as temps are ok (presumably so given low draw of X3D vs capacity of DH VRM). It's not for a DH, but Asus is fairly consistent in bios behavior.
> Asus Article
> 
> To verify you can measure with DMM from inductor to ground while operating and check for output on each phase or use an IR gun and check each inductor temp under load. The least active ones are typically top right side.


Cpu-z is strange with PBO limits, very light on amps required but super temp sensitive - even with 10C water I got better results with lower than default PBO limits on my 5800x, even setting edc to throttle 100%…


----------



## bmagnien

Asus released several non beta versions of 1.2.0.7 yesterday, updating my x570-I now and will report any differences

edit: looks like it’s literally just a reskinned beta…the date on the .cap file is still end of April when the beta came out


----------



## robertr1

Previously I ran booster to confirm single core boost was fine. I wanted to make sure multi core was ok also. Realistically, I'll be using SMT off as gaming gains are notable in my testing and gaming is the most intensive use of this rig.


----------



## bmagnien

robertr1 said:


> Previously I ran booster to confirm single core boost was fine. I wanted to make sure multi core was ok also. Realistically, I'll be using SMT off as gaming gains are notable in my testing and gaming is the most intensive use of this rig.


That’s an insane score. What are your cpu temps during the test? Assuming 75c?


----------



## MrHoof

bmagnien said:


> Asus released several non beta versions of 1.2.0.7 yesterday, updating my x570-I now and will report any differences
> 
> edit: looks like it’s literally just a reskinned beta…the date on the .cap file is still end of April when the beta came out


Seems to be the same bios just reuploaded as non beta. Still 4403 and if you try to flash it still says release 27/4/2022.


----------



## bmagnien

MrHoof said:


> Seems to be the same bios just reuploaded as non beta. Still 4403 and if you try to flash it still says release 27/4/2022.


Lol we just wrote the exact same thing


----------



## yzonker

tcclaviger said:


> Your screen refresh trick applies to 3d benchmarks too  TBH I was somewhat surprised but it did boost scores some.


Yep, I always run in [email protected] with no scaling (or less if the benchmark is lower than 1440p). Doesn't help in everything, but 3DMark in particular seems sensitive to it.


----------



## ossimc

robertr1 said:


> Previously I ran booster to confirm single core boost was fine. I wanted to make sure multi core was ok also. Realistically, I'll be using SMT off as gaming gains are notable in my testing and gaming is the most intensive use of this rig.


Can you show us any hard data on smt on vs off?


----------



## bmagnien

robertr1 said:


> Using the booster.exe to check effective clocks has been great and happy that my chip is performing as expected. This is -30 CO on all cores.
> 
> I've also been testing YC 2.5B and seeing if -30 CO is doing any clock stretching and happily, it's not. -20 for example has lower effective clocks and scores worse.


This is what mine looks like after using CoreBooster. Looking at yours I was a bit envious seeing all your 45.5s, but then I checked effectives, and even though my core clocks at lower than yours, all my effectives are higher than yours. Does anyone know what would account for this? And is it better to have higher effective clocks or higher clocks?


----------



## robertr1

ossimc said:


> Can you show us any hard data on smt on vs off?








5800x3d vs 12900k tuned gaming benchmarks


I'm part of a small group of PC enthusiast who enjoy tuning our systems so they perform at their optimal at all times. This also helps us identify bottlenecks and tune around them where possible. For example, we're happy to give up rendering performance for gaming if gaming is going to be main...




forums.overclockers.co.uk


----------



## robertr1

bmagnien said:


> This is what mine looks like after using CoreBooster. Looking at yours I was a bit envious seeing all your 45.5s, but then I checked effectives, and even though my core clocks at lower than yours, all my effectives are higher than yours. Does anyone know what would account for this? And is it better to have higher effective clocks or higher clocks?
> View attachment 2562654


I have all my sim equipment hooked up and even the Reverb G2, I don't 'turn off' and leave it connected as idle. All these little things sap something away. But it's a daily gaming setup, not a bench setup so I'm in fine with it.


----------



## slayer6288

@tcclaviger So my 5800x3d came in today. Boosts properly to 45.5 on single core loads on all cpu cores and is stable in corecycler at -30 all core. Only thing I can't get to work is bclk overclocking. So I have a 3090 TI, dark hero and 2 nvme 970 evo plus drivers. I can boot into windows at 105 bclk but have a black screen because my 3090 ti is not having it at that bclk which makes sense as ur 3080 ti didnt like it either. at 102.9 it boots fine into windows but my cores are all locked to 3.5ghz. I enable c states, force oc mode from disabled to enabled. Am I missing a setting?


----------



## jonRock1992

slayer6288 said:


> @tcclaviger So my 5800x3d came in today. Boosts properly to 45.5 on single core loads on all cpu cores and is stable in corecycler at -30 all core. Only thing I can't get to work is bclk overclocking. So I have a 3090 TI, dark hero and 2 nvme 970 evo plus drivers. I can boot into windows at 105 bclk but have a black screen because my 3090 ti is not having it at that bclk which makes sense as ur 3080 ti didnt like it either. at 102.9 it boots fine into windows but my cores are all locked to 3.5ghz. I enable c states, force oc mode from disabled to enabled. Am I missing a setting?


Ditch the Dark Hero. I had one, but had too many annoying issues with it. Sold mine and got an MSI mobo instead.


----------



## bloot

the_aeon said:


> I have an Asus X570 Tuf gaming plus, update to AGESA 1207 and I have lost 200mhz in CR20 multicore compared to AGESA 1206, does anyone else have the same?


I'm getting the same frequencies and scores within margin of error


----------



## tcclaviger

slayer6288 said:


> @tcclaviger So my 5800x3d came in today. Boosts properly to 45.5 on single core loads on all cpu cores and is stable in corecycler at -30 all core. Only thing I can't get to work is bclk overclocking. So I have a 3090 TI, dark hero and 2 nvme 970 evo plus drivers. I can boot into windows at 105 bclk but have a black screen because my 3090 ti is not having it at that bclk which makes sense as ur 3080 ti didnt like it either. at 102.9 it boots fine into windows but my cores are all locked to 3.5ghz. I enable c states, force oc mode from disabled to enabled. Am I missing a setting?


Force OC Mode Disabled set to Enabled.
Global C-State Control Enabled.
Ensure DOCS, All PBO, and Multiplier OC options in both Asus and AMD menus are disabled/auto.
FMAX Enhancer disabled.

If it's like that and not boosting something's fsckry. Reflash using USB flashback not ezflash and try again.

At this point I'd try full auto on all except, force oc mode disabled enabled and 101 to ensure boosting works. If not you may need to try an older beta bios running 1206b

Not sure if you're aware of recovery modes, there are many at least 4. If you trigger the AMD recovery mode it will reset CPPC Preferred to Auto and Global C-State Control to Auto so verify those.

Regarding swapping from a DH to anything MSI...not saying because it won't be nice.


----------



## slayer6288

tcclaviger said:


> Force OC Mode Disabled set to Enabled.
> Global C-State Control Enabled.
> Ensure DOCS, All PBO, and Multiplier OC options in both Asus and AMD menus are disabled/auto.
> FMAX Enhancer disabled.
> 
> If it's like that and not boosting something's fsckry. Reflash using USB flashback not ezflash and try again.
> 
> At this point I'd try full auto on all except, force oc mode disabled enabled and 101 to ensure boosting works. If not you may need to try an older beta bios running 1206b
> 
> Not sure if you're aware of recovery modes, there are many at least 4. If you trigger the AMD recovery mode it will reset CPPC Preferred to Auto and Global C-State Control to Auto so verify those.
> 
> Regarding swapping from a DH to anything MSI...not saying because it won't be nice.


I needed to enable core performance boost also. Now it boosts properly so a few questions. If I can boot and no issues does that mean my 970 evo plus's are okay with this or is data corruption in my future? running corecycler with -30 curve and 102.9 bclk lets see how this goes.


----------



## tcclaviger

Ah yes, sorry I always forget that it can disable the boosting function, but it should default to enabled.

It's possible they're ok, and possible they're not  I don't know of a way to test it.

Also, double check PCIE is 4.0 not 3 or 2, the boards sometimes drop it back automatically during bclk OC.

Verify voltage as well. At some point climbing bclk "Auto" turns into Manual at 1.22 on C8E, not sure if DH does the same on X3D.


----------



## LtMatt

slayer6288 said:


> @tcclaviger So my 5800x3d came in today. Boosts properly to 45.5 on single core loads on all cpu cores and is stable in corecycler at -30 all core. Only thing I can't get to work is bclk overclocking. So I have a 3090 TI, dark hero and 2 nvme 970 evo plus drivers. I can boot into windows at 105 bclk but have a black screen because my 3090 ti is not having it at that bclk which makes sense as ur 3080 ti didnt like it either. at 102.9 it boots fine into windows but my cores are all locked to 3.5ghz. I enable c states, force oc mode from disabled to enabled. Am I missing a setting?


Go into tweaked menu and set force oc disable mode to enable, also enable c states and core performance boost and that will fix it, using same board.

Edit way too slow just woke up I see @tcclaviger beat me to it.


----------



## ossimc

@*LtMatt*

so i copied your settings for for RTT, procODT and cad bus (as we have the same ram stickt) and i finaly could boot 3933. But getting WHEA :/ any ideas?








runs with 3866...no WHEA (with 3933 i set tRFC to 266 though). maybe CLDO VDDP is too high?(its on auto atm)


----------



## LtMatt

ossimc said:


> @*LtMatt*
> 
> so i copied your settings for for RTT, procODT and cad bus (as we have the same ram stickt) and i finaly could boot 3933. But getting WHEA :/ any ideas?
> View attachment 2562679
> 
> runs with 3866...no WHEA (with 3933 i set tRFC to 266 though). maybe CLDO VDDP is too high?(its on auto atm)


I'm lucky that I am not getting WHEA errors yet. I did initially above 1900Mhz when I first got the chip, but that was using all auto values and I didn't really know what I was doing.

Here is what I am currently stability testing, getting closer to 4000/2000Mhz, inching BCLK up a few notches each time and then retesting stability.









From the last screenshot I posted, I had to make a few changes to fix TM5 errors after half a dozen cycles.

Lower VSOC -1
Lower VDDP -0.05
Lower ClkDrvStr 1
VDIMM +1 (now 1.540)

I was surprised that I had to lower VSOC and VDDP to get stability with a slightly higher BCLK than I was previously using which was stable. I think it was actually -0.05 VDDP that did it as I change one thing at a time then test. SO yeah maybe try lower VDDP, guidlines seem to be 0.900-0.950mv but have also seen the range extend to 0.800-1.000v.

For WHEA, try playing with the CCD/IOD voltages. Lower ProcODT might help too, so could try that a notch lower, but then you may need to adjust other values like CAD or RttNom to compensate. It''s all a balancing act and there are others here that are far more knowledgeable than me at doing this but I'm learning.

My 5950X WHEAs like crazy at this FCLK so think it just comes down to a lottery if you don't get WHEA above 1900Mhz. With the 5950X I just ran 3800/1900 and CL14 and geardown enabled and focused on getting tight timing as best as I could with 1.55v. With the 5800X3D I've done a lot more testing and experimentation, aided greatly by help from a few folks here and this guide.

Turn geardown mode off and use T2 if you cannot get 1T stable like me. 2T gives better performance (in games) and lower latency (in Aida64) in my testing.

EDIT - Just after posting this got a 6 error in TM5 after 12 cycles. IMC related according to the veii chart, so will try +/- 1 VSOC, VDDP to see if this one error can be fixed as it's very close to stable, I think.


----------



## Yuke

Any super secret voltage i am not aware of to battle ONE SINGLE WHEA PER DAY at 1900Mhz fclk? Even the slowests of timings is giving me one per day...which is hillarious because the most tightest of timings at 1.55V DRAM is also giving me exactly one...i am starting to expect a W11 software glitch or whatever....

Benchmarks don't crash. It vanishes at 1866Mhz though...

Tried VSOC up to 1.225V, VDDP up to 1.1V and PLL up to 1.9V

My silicon is not the best. Need VDDP 975mV and VSOC 1.1375V at least at 3733Mhz. Otherwise reboots.


----------



## Clukos

Seems like I can run R23 with -30 all core curve at 103.34 BCLK, all core boost in R23 is 4.6 GHz. I had to remove all SATA drives for it to post though, maybe it's my mobo (MSI x570 Tomahawk).

What a shame we can't apply a positive curve OC clock offset, I would be happy to set it -30 all core and +200 frequency. I don't understand why AMD limited the frequency (I get the voltage...).

Unfortunately I can't run BCLK OC 24/7 as it interferes with my drives and affects overall stability


----------



## LtMatt

Yuke said:


> Any super secret voltage i am not aware of to battle ONE SINGLE WHEA PER DAY at 1900Mhz fclk? Even the slowests of timings is giving me one per day...which is hillarious because the most tightest of timings at 1.55V DRAM is also giving me exactly one...i am starting to expect a W11 software glitch or whatever....
> 
> Benchmarks don't crash. It vanishes at 1866Mhz though...
> 
> Tried VSOC up to 1.225V, VDDP up to 1.1V and PLL up to 1.9V
> 
> My silicon is not the best. Need VDDP 975mV and VSOC 1.1375V at least at 3733Mhz. Otherwise reboots.


Try lower ProODT.

I’ve also found that cranking up voltage makes things worse too, at least for general stability.


----------



## MrHoof

LtMatt said:


> I'm lucky that I am not getting WHEA errors yet. I did initially above 1900Mhz when I first got the chip, but that was using all auto values and I didn't really know what I was doing.
> 
> Here is what I am currently stability testing, getting closer to 4000/2000Mhz, inching BCLK up a few notches each time and then retesting stability.
> View attachment 2562681
> 
> 
> From the last screenshot I posted, I had to make a few changes to fix TM5 errors after half a dozen cycles.
> 
> Lower VSOC -1
> Lower VDDP -0.05
> Lower ClkDrvStr 1
> VDIMM +1 (now 1.540)
> 
> I was surprised that I had to lower VSOC and VDDP to get stability with a slightly higher BCLK than I was previously using which was stable. I think it was actually -0.05 VDDP that did it as I change one thing at a time then test. SO yeah maybe try lower VDDP, guidlines seem to be 0.900-0.950mv but have also seen the range extend to 0.800-1.000v.
> 
> For WHEA, try playing with the CCD/IOD voltages. Lower ProcODT might help too, so could try that a notch lower, but then you may need to adjust other values like CAD or RttNom to compensate. It''s all a balancing act and there are others here that are far more knowledgeable than me at doing this but I'm learning.
> 
> My 5950X WHEAs like crazy at this FCLK so think it just comes down to a lottery if you don't get WHEA above 1900Mhz. With the 5950X I just ran 3800/1900 and CL14 and geardown enabled and focused on getting tight timing as best as I could with 1.55v. With the 5800X3D I've done a lot more testing and experimentation, aided greatly by help from a few folks here and this guide.
> 
> Turn geardown mode off and use T2 if you cannot get 1T stable like me. 2T gives better performance (in games) and lower latency (in Aida64) in my testing.
> 
> EDIT - Just after posting this got a 6 error in TM5 after 12 cycles. IMC related according to the veii chart, so will try +/- 1 VSOC, VDDP to see if this one error can be fixed as it's very close to stable, I think.
> View attachment 2562682


Would rather think vdimm +0.01v could also be worth a try, those timings are rather tight for 4000mhz @1.54v. For me 6 is most of the time just more vdimm needed.


----------



## LtMatt

MrHoof said:


> Would rather think vdimm +0.01v could also be worth a try, those timings are rather tight for 4000mhz @1.54v. For me 6 is most of the time just more vdimm needed.


I'll try that too, cheers.


----------



## ossimc

Clukos said:


> What a shame we can't apply a positive curve OC clock offset, I would be happy to set it -30 all core and +200 frequency. I don't understand why AMD limited the frequency (I get the voltage...).
> 
> Unfortunately I can't run BCLK OC 24/7 as it interferes with my drives and affects overall stability


cuz everybody would be laughing @ zen4 gaming performance. pretty sure its the only reason


----------



## yzonker

Well, I made a few more SotTR runs to test some stuff. Turning SMT off got 7 fps. Nothing huge. A bigger gain by going to 720p to keep my 30 series card from falling behind in that one segment.

I was hoping to break 400, but couldn't quite get there. I'm still stuck at 1833 fclk if I want to go above 100 bclk. (these were run at 102 bclk)

I'm not sure what in regards to the vid card that is holding it back though. I tried running the card 100% stock and then with a max OC. There was only a 7 fps difference (in 1080p). So the video card itself isn't much of a bottleneck, even at 1080p.

SMT on,










SMT off,










SMT off, 720p (to make up for my lowly 30 series card, LOL),


----------



## tcclaviger

Same results I observed with the 3080ti, it can't quite keep up with x3d at 1080/lowest with 2250core and + 1350mem, even with resolution modifier set to minimum. BIOS BAR enabled, OS BAR enabled, Nvidia Inspector force BAR enabled in the three spots helps some.

Happy to see more people getting their OCs dialed in!!



ossimc said:


> cuz everybody would be laughing @ zen4 gaming performance. pretty sure its the only reason


This is part of the reason for sure. Had they let the chip sing at 5 or 5.1 it would certainly crush Zen 4 in games that benefit from V-cache. At 47 and 48 its already a monster.

--------------
--------------


Spoiler: User Sepculation Below



So here is my theory on 44.5 and 45.5 restriction, in the below if VID is not present I mean GET, what's actually at the CPU, SVI2 is usually close to this value.

A reminder: it's widely held that 1.3vcore GET at the CPU, not VID, is the max safe daily static OC voltage for normal Zen 3, and many question that as being too high.

- As clock speed increases through BCLK OC, the VIDs requested by SMU rise, without user changing anything on voltage settings, this behaviour ends at V-Latch of 1.3VID of course, but it roughly corresponds to the same scaling as my 5950x when using 1CCD only. This demonstrates SMU has similar volt/freq scaling as normal Zen 3 CPUs.

- SMU requesting 1.3 VID ~ corresponds to 4.725ghz all core and 4.85 single core, this is about where I run mine daily at 106 BCLK. I do not think this a coincidence, I think AMD did it by design, chosing 44.5 and 45.5 with an anticipated OCing scenario of ~105bclk or less. The use of 100mhz spread limits upper practical BCLK speed due to Zen 3 all core speed limitations typically landing around 4750+/- about 150mhz.

- X Zen 3 chips start climbing into the 1.4+VID range early when no offsets are applied. By 4.85ghz, some Zen 3 will be asking for 1.475VID or more when stock. At 4750 all core my 5950x is at ~1.42 VID, by 4920 all core my 5950x starts hitting 1.5 VID on the worst 2 cores, and mid 1.4x on the others.

Using AMDs own programmed behavior I then form two theories/models.

1: There is only 1 universal voltage/freq table programed in all SMUs which is adjusted using a global scaling factor which offsets the curve up/down according to CPU ID during POST. Using this offset it then refines the VID requested by referencing this scale and realtime applying correction factors for programed per core quality, temperature, and CPU load. This establishes the VID table per core for each CPU and is why the same CPU will show performance improvements with reduced temp, even when no limits are being hit at all besides multiplier. The performance improves until minimum volt-freq point are hit for a given speed and the temperature correction factor is 0, after which no more improvements.

2: I believe AMD deliberately gimped X3D at 44.5 and 45.5 instead of giving a larger 200mhz spread of 44.5 and 46.5 because of this single volt/freq scale. Had they left 46.5, the 105mhz scenario would result in 4882, close enough to 4.9ghz. By 4.9ghz a stock Zen3 is deep into the 1.4VIDs, creating a risk to the V-cache if the X3D we're allowed to do so. AMD are wise enough to know we users would apply negative global vcore offsets and CO to keep cores under V-Latch despite ideal VIDs over 1.3 in the curve, if it weren't hitting V-Latch, meaning no throttling as V-latch would not be hit due to negative CO, however RVDD would still be high, constantly at or near the 1.3 V-Latch.

The problem is, the overall VID, say 1.3 @ 4.85ghz, is still deliverd to RVDD, and is only then reduced by CO before arriving at the cores. All this is fine on normal Zen 3 because L3 gets powered through VDDM, which has its own voltage domain and is presumably a fixed ratio of RVDD or fixed voltage that adapts the voltage ratio of RVDD, either way, it works safely up to 1.5125 VID.

What we don't know, because they're being opaque about it, is how is the V-cache powered? Is it via VDDM, derived using a new voltage domain from RVDD, or is it getting full RVDD aka SMU VID? My money is that it's the third option, full RVDD voltage or a fixed ratio RVDD to new VDDM domain.









This then explains why the VIDs are limited via the two mechanisms, first via V-Latch, second via limiting practical max clock speed which precludes SMU from scaling voltage, it gives the chip two safeties, even when pesky users like me try to force things to "malfunction", they save V-cache from sustained voltages over 1.3v. I can shove more than 1.3v at the chip using voltage suspension which tricks SMU, but I don't really gain much because everything is fighting against allowing it for the safety of the CPU.

This suggest fixed ratio VDDM or full RVDD, otherwise there would be no reason to limit the VIDs at 1.3, if it were a variable voltage domain, they could use an adaptive voltage gate to keep V-cache at ideal voltage.

Also remember voltage spikes at load release. If your CPU is chugging along at 1.293 VID on a 16 thread AVX2 workload (ycruncher for example) then it ends abruptly, voltage at RVDD spikes briefly, by 200mv or more depending on LLC settings and VRM settings/design. If V-cache is indeed powered directly off RVDD it's taking the voltage spike directly.

All of this can be observed in a few ways, but one telltale sign that's you're exceeding CPU safety limits is thermal miss-behavior as below.

To frame this I need to explain this only happens on maximum loads like Ycruncher or Prime95. Not in R23 (52c peak temp), not in gaming (about 38c peak), not in 1 thread loading (usually 30c or less). I am only running it this high because I don't load the X3D with Prime/Ycruncher loads often/ever outside stability testing.

When pushing X3D to stay constantly near 1.3 GET when under load as I am (1.293 sustained VID and 1.27-1.305 GET), there's a behavior where upon initial full loading of the CPU, temperature spikes and slowly comes down over a 4-5 second period. When these heavy loads hit, I see spikes of coolant + 75c which taper down to coolant + 40c at 142 PPT limit.

For an air cooled system this would instantly send it well over 100c core temps if it didn't throttle, and I believe most ambient systems would just flat out crash without seeing this behavior. This is using an Optimus Block, Derbauer offset Mount, liquid metal, and very high clamp pressure. There's zero chance an air cooler or AIO has as low a thermal resistance, so the spikes would be much worse.

This is indicative of the thermal bottleneck that V-cache and interposer create and is a sign the CPU is beyond its' safe limits. The cores fire off at max load/speed, and it takes a bit of time for the heat to conduct through interposer and V-cache to IHS.

More accurately, it takes time for the thermal delta to be high enough between IHS and Vcache that thermal transfer becomes rapid enough to pull the heat out of the CPU. All of this puts stress on the V-cache and interposer, both physically and electrically and will result in reduced lifespan; by how much...who knows. One need only review the history of large die GPUs to understand the problem of joint shifting between die and substrate; only, in this case the die is Vcache and substrate is the interposer.

My 5950x doesn't do this spike then drop, even at 50x CCD1 and 49x CCD2 with 1.4v GET at 350 watts as I used to take the Corona 1.3 benchmark 5950x top spot. In this configuration I see coolant +65c on hottest cores, so X3D at max power is much worse off thermally than a 5950x.

EDIT: Forgot the key part...
This aberrant behavior is likely to be the one and only warning sign Vcache CPUs will present to users prior to permanent Vcache damage occuring when OCing the chip. With the way voltage damages silicon directly when running too high a voltage the CPU will work right up until it doesn't. Only AMD knows for sure how high is safe for the V-cache and since we don't know how it's powered, staying under 1.3v VID for CPU should be adhered to. Remember as well, a single high voltage event at high amperage can cause permanent damage, especially at high temps, as covered in numerous electron migration based degradation white papers.

*If the temperature imbalance spike is observed on ambient cooled air/AIO/Open Loop OCs I strongly advise users to back off to a lower voltage and corresponding speed until the temperature spike at initial full load stops occuring or is minimal.*


----------



## Achilles777

Hi 
I need to know if amd gpus are bclk sensitive as rtx 3000 series?
And in general which gpus are stable at high bclk?


----------



## tcclaviger

Achilles777 said:


> Hi
> I need to know if amd gpus are bclk sensitive as rtx 3000 series?
> And in general which gpus are stable at high bclk?


Can only offer my isolated case.
2080ti no bclk limit found.
3080ti 102.8 max bclk, 103 will not post.
6950xt 106 bclk fully stable. Posts up to 109, but GPU starts struggling a bit at 107 and PEC training takes longer.

I know Skatterbencher had Ampere at 104.2 functioning correctly.


----------



## Achilles777

tcclaviger said:


> Can only offer my isolated case.
> 2080ti no bclk limit found.
> 3080ti 102.8 max bclk, 103 will not post.
> 6950xt 106 bclk fully stable. Posts up to 109, but GPU starts struggling a bit at 107 and PEC training takes longer.


I have some questions please
1st is it real that b550 mb are far better than x570s mb in bclk oc?
Are they really more stable at high bclk?
And by the way what mb do u use?


----------



## tcclaviger

I don't have any 550s, I don't know if that's true. If it's true, Crosshairs must be an exception.
I'm using the Crosshair 8 Extreme, but also had x3d in Crosshair 6 Extreme with success at high bclk.


----------



## OCmember

Any recommendations on Heterogeneous thread scheduling policy, and Heterogeneous Short Running thread scheduling policy?

I haven't touched those in a while. I think Automatic is default for HTSP, and Prefer performant for HSRTSP


----------



## Conenubi701

Fully Stock 6900XT/5800x3d vs my 2.8ghz overclocked 6900XT + old 2700x on the same x470 Crosshair VII Hero Wi-Fi motherboard + 3200mhz CL14 32gb of RAM











So far I've messed with the offset voltage in BIOS and it's currently stable at a -0.1862mv offset. This CPU and the AM4 platform are amazing


----------



## Nighthog

Getting closer to maybe could use 1933FCLK... *2hours* and *3 WHEA* errors only. Key settings was ~1040mv VDDG_CCD & ~1.200-1.220V VSOC.
Might not handle extreme stress test but general usage is not producing errors too much any more. Would need to tune it more or this is as good as my sample will do. I wish it was easier than just testing combinations randomly and then narrowing them down to something that has a good result.

Was just having some time for this while I waited for a delivery to arrive. Will need to work on that other stuff before returning to this later.

EDIT: Damn, still can't handle LinpackXtreme at all... just spamming WHEA when you run it.


----------



## Achilles777

tcclaviger said:


> I don't have any 550s, I don't know if that's true. If it's true, Crosshairs must be an exception.
> I'm using the Crosshair 8 Extreme, but also had x3d in Crosshair 6 Extreme with success at high bclk.


Asus extreme is in a league of its own
Its twice the price of evga dark


----------



## ossimc

@*tcclaviger*
you got a x5700 Strix wifi II if im correct? what settings i NEED to apply if i wanna bclk OC? i didnt find the"force OC enable" option in my mod-bios

for ram. i tthink i wanna settle for 3800mhz with the tightest timings possible ( maybe even 3600mhz. cuz somehow there is a big jump in powerdraw in IDLE going from 1800fclk to 190right now the following is fully stable








vdimm 1,51v (havent tried less yet)
what timings i could tighten up by how much? (also concidering only 3600mhz) tRCDRD is quiet hard to get down to 14. whats the deal with that?
command rate1 GDMon vs. 2t GMDOFF. what is better in gaming for latency/snappyness?^^ i think we discussed this topic not long ago


----------



## tcclaviger

The x570 Strix-E and -E II does not have an external clock generator, unfortunately.

For CR1 vs 2, and GDM on vs Off, whichever setting holds tPHYRDL the same on both sticks is going to be lower latency at 3800. 26/26 or 28/28 will both perform better than 26/28 or 28/26. Also reduces mirror swap error chance.

tRCDRD is a tempermental timing, it is what is there's nothing I'm aware that will get it lower stable.

From where your timings are now you could try:
tRCDWR 10
tRP 12
tRAS 29
tRP 41
tRRDL 4
tWR 12
tCWL 12
tRTP 6
tWTRS and tWTRL of 3/8 or 3/10

tRDWR and tWRRD of 2/10 or 2/12 (has fairly large impact on bandwidth and stability).

tRFC after all the others are done, likely to come down to around 240-250 for 126-130ns.


----------



## ossimc

Yeah right:/ does it mean it's not possible at all?
I think my gpu is sensitive to bclk anyway. With the CH7 I could boot 103 but already my screen stayed black. You which boards have one?

Speaking of the Strix. It's so sad that a 350-400€ board doesn't even come with a clear CMOS button...a board directed towards overclockers. Come on Asus. Luckily I only paid 150€...so it was kind of steal


----------



## Luggage

ossimc said:


> Yeah right:/ does it mean it's not possible at all?
> I think my gpu is sensitive to bclk anyway. With the CH7 I could boot 103 but already my screen stayed black. You which boards have one?
> 
> Speaking of the Strix. It's so sad that a 350-400€ board doesn't even come with a clear CMOS button...a board directed towards overclockers. Come on Asus. Luckily I only paid 150€...so it was kind of steal


Sadly strix feels more like rgb bling for gamers than budget oc boards - as opposed to strix GPUs that are totl just under hof and kingpin.


----------



## LtMatt

tcclaviger said:


> For CR1 vs 2, and GDM on vs Off, whichever setting holds tPHYRDL the same on both sticks is going to be lower latency at 3800. 26/26 or 28/28 will both perform better than 26/28 or 28/26. Also reduces mirror swap error chance.


That would explain why I see lower latency and higher FPS with T2 vs GDM on, as one of my DIMMS reports 28.


----------



## tcclaviger

ossimc said:


> Yeah right:/ does it mean it's not possible at all?
> I think my gpu is sensitive to bclk anyway. With the CH7 I could boot 103 but already my screen stayed black. You which boards have one?
> 
> Speaking of the Strix. It's so sad that a 350-400€ board doesn't even come with a clear CMOS button...a board directed towards overclockers. Come on Asus. Luckily I only paid 150€...so it was kind of steal


Agreed, it drove me nuts not having safeboot or clear CMOS.

For 150 it's a good buy really. I recently read whole bclk steps might work, so 101 102 etc, you could try that, may only be some boards.

Crosshair line all have external clock generators.

When Asus added ROG branding to the Strix line they made a mistake. ROG should be OC/LN2/Bling enthusiast focused line, Strix higher end consumer line, TUF mainline, Prime budget. That's how it started and it was a clear seperation, confusing it was bad.

Just like their GPUs top carrd should be Matrix with all LN2 stuff + extreme PCB, Strix custom PCB but no LN2 provisions, and TUF/Prime as reference. I suspect they started clumping the strix with LN2 features in order to keep the card costs high.


----------



## LtMatt

Been testing Call of Duty Black Ops at 1080P competitive settings on my 5800X3D, which was somewhat CPU limited with my 5950X.

5800X3D @4.61Ghz
3987Mhz CL14
6750 XT @2920Mhz/2312Mhz
6900 XTXH @2940Mhz/2124Mhz
3909 Founders Edition +130Mhz core / + 800 memory

1080P
6750 XT









1080P
3090 FE (forgot to update the overlay text)









1080P
6900 XTXH


----------



## tcclaviger

All the frames!

I love that we've reached a point where graphic fidelity can be quite good, while maintaining absurd frame rates.

I wish it meant AMD/Nvidia would focus on frames per watt/IPC for next gen and bringing cards back into the 300 watt or less range for top cards, but speed sells and efficiency largely doesn't, so it looks like both are doubling down on performance at all costs.

X3D is probably the most significant step in the gaming efficiency realm since....like...Sandy Bridge 2500k.


----------



## ossimc

tcclaviger said:


> The x570 Strix-E and -E II does not have an external clock generator, unfortunately.
> 
> For CR1 vs 2, and GDM on vs Off, whichever setting holds tPHYRDL the same on both sticks is going to be lower latency at 3800. 26/26 or 28/28 will both perform better than 26/28 or 28/26. Also reduces mirror swap error chance.


ok first time i read about this stuff. Also first time i looked at both sticks in zenTimings°° so its tPHYRDL 26 and 28...lets see how i get those even.

the MSI B550 unifi-x also has an external clockgen right?

the strix II why it has two lan-ports but no clear cmos is beyond me. seriously when do two lan ports come in handy?
@*LtMatt*
amazing how cod performes on RDNA2. now you just need the new 500hz TN from ASUS^^
when i got 6900XT it run like ass in warzone. It was fast...but i couldnt get rid of the framedrops caused by rdna's agressive p-states even with all the workarounds with MorePowerTool. Did that changed due to driver updates?


----------



## LtMatt

ossimc said:


> ok first time i read about this stuff. Also first time i looked at both sticks in zenTimings°° so its tPHYRDL 26 and 28...lets see how i get those even.
> 
> the MSI B550 unifi-x also has an external clockgen right?
> 
> the strix II why it has two lan-ports but no clear cmos is beyond me. seriously when do two lan ports come in handy?
> @*LtMatt*
> amazing how cod performes on RDNA2. now you just need the new 500hz TN from ASUS^^
> when i got 6900XT it run like ass in warzone. It was fast...but i couldnt get rid of the framedrops caused by rdna's agressive p-states even with all the workarounds with MorePowerTool. Did that changed due to driver updates?


In the release notes it's listed as a known issue, but I never really had that issue myself thankfully. I'll put up some videos today on YouTubes so will share them here later. All GPUs run the game really well despite the FPS differences. 3090 actually does a lot better for average FPS in Cold War than it does in Warzone at 1080P.

What is the general consensus on TM5, is it better to run AntaExtreme or 1usmusv3?


----------



## TrigrH

ossimc said:


> MSI B550 unifi-x also has an external clockgen right?


Yes, my understanding (from buildzoid) is that B550 can tolerate much higher BCLK than X570. If you're using CPU lanes thats your limiting factor eitherway.


----------



## ice445

I've noticed that with CPPC Preferred Cores disabled, I rarely get 4550 boost clocks. With it on, I regularly have cores hitting that. So I'm just going to leave it on. Didn't notice a huge difference with it off, but I'm in Windows 11 now which in theory is better equipped to handle the preferred cores thing. Dunno.


----------



## Wreckedge

tcclaviger said:


> The x570 Strix-E and -E II does not have an external clock generator, unfortunately.


Tcclaviger
I didn't find it on Hero WiFi either. I have specific problem with this board. For almost 2 weeks i'm trying to push it into OC 5800x3D. I've managed to insert 47.5 multiplier, but it runs 45.5 at max. 
I have followed many instructions but my board just won't start with BCLK > 100.2. Blackscreen always or memory QC. The memory controller on this 5800x3D is not best. FCLK at max is 1800Mhz. 

Have you seen anyone OCing BCLK of 5800x3D on Crosshair Hero?
Is it doable even?


----------



## Conenubi701

Which programs do you guys use for stability testing? I'm currently at -0.2000mv offset and I'm having a hard time believing it's been stable so far LOL. This cpu is so cool under load now.


----------



## LtMatt

I've discovered some sort of bug or glitch when using BCLK on the Dark Hero and it looks to be holding performance back a little. I am using HWINFO64 and effective clocks to monitor frequency.

If i enable BCLK, even just 100.1, it will not properly apply the increased frequency to core 1. It applies to all other cores though. For example:

Set BCLK to 102.25. this results in all core load of 4.55Ghz under a workload or stress test like CB23, or Aida64, all apart from core 1 which is stuck around 85-100Mhz lower.

If i dial back BCLK to 100.1, all cores see an increase in CPU frequency bar core 1.

I tested adding + / - curve optimiser to core 1 to confirm that it is not clock stretching. Even having all cores on 0 curve optimiser and core 1 on -30 with 100.1 BCLK does not fix it.

I confirmed using CPU-Z that core 1 is not boosting properly when BCLK is enabled. For now at least, it looks like I might have to abandon BCLK overclocking.

The following BIOS options are enabled, let me know if I've missed anything.

All BIOS options default, changed only the following:
Auto OC Manual 101.250
Force OC Mode enabled
C States enabled
Core Performance Boost enabled
CPPC Enabled
CPPC PC Disabled (also tried enabled no difference)

I've also tried both BIOS versions but the behaviour is the same on both.

The annoying thing is my scores were decent, and they could have been better if core 1 would match the frequency of the others.

As soon as I disable BCLK, core 1 is perfectly in sync with the others, and can do -30 with 0 clock stretching. Bizarre.


----------



## tcclaviger

I'm 99.99% confident it's a software glitch on HWinfo. I have observed the exact behavior as well. It is odd your cpu-z is reporting 1 at slower speeds though, so it may be a different type of bug.

For this reason I stopped using effective clock and started using perf clock sensors again.

Can see below mine reporting the same thing on core 0 with effective clock, however, zenPTmonitor reports full speed as does hwinfo perf clock and multiplier. It's like the Core 0 effective clock entry simply neglects to do the bclk modification to the clock speed displayed.


----------



## LtMatt

tcclaviger said:


> I'm 99.99% confident it's a software glitch on HWinfo. I have observed the exact behavior as well.
> 
> For this reason I stopped using effective clock and started using perf clock sensors again.


Can you test CPU-Z and lock the app to core 0 affinity and test at stock 100 bclk vs 101.025 bclk? I see a difference in score which makes me think it’s hurting performance.


----------



## ossimc

So I just test run my ram timings with 3400mhz instead of 3800mhz and so both stick have tPHYRDL 26 (gdm on 1t) is it a voltage thing to get this timing equal at higher clocks? Vsoc? Clod vddp? Iod?

There is a setting in AI tweaker of the Strix II called "Performance enhancer". Do you now what it does by any chance. And which setting would be "off"? Not that is messes with voltages while Im trying to tweak the ram


----------



## tcclaviger

Wreckedge said:


> Tcclaviger
> I didn't find it on Hero WiFi either. I have specific problem with this board. For almost 2 weeks i'm trying to push it into OC 5800x3D. I've managed to insert 47.5 multiplier, but it runs 45.5 at max.
> I have followed many instructions but my board just won't start with BCLK > 100.2. Blackscreen always or memory QC. The memory controller on this 5800x3D is not best. FCLK at max is 1800Mhz.
> 
> Have you seen anyone OCing BCLK of 5800x3D on Crosshair Hero?
> Is it doable even?


It definitely has external clock gen, which Crosshar Hero; 6, 7, or 8? Multiplier will never change, don't try to manipulate it, leave all that on auto. X3D doesn't allow multiplier adjustment and just trying to manipulate it stops correct boosting in most cases.



Conenubi701 said:


> Which programs do you guys use for stability testing? I'm currently at -0.2000mv offset and I'm having a hard time believing it's been stable so far LOL. This cpu is so cool under load now.


Y-Cruncher is my personal preference as it's very quick and gives a performance metric where you can check for both stability and clock stretching using the same test.



LtMatt said:


> Can you test CPU-Z and lock the app to core 0 affinity and test at stock 100 bclk vs 101.025 bclk? I see a difference in score which makes me think it’s hurting performance.


I will do some verification, but I'm pretty confident in my scenario it's merely a display bug. Yours sounds like it may be an actual speed bug if you can find performance deltas. Trying something not cpu-z using affinity might be more accurate since cpu-z does it's own affinity hijinks, R15 with affinity set isn't too long.

On my system I get the same r15 1T results between cores, so it seems to be visual only bug. Yours may be different, if it is, it's odd.



ossimc said:


> So I just test run my ram timings with 3400mhz instead of 3800mhz and so both stick have tPHYRDL 26 (gdm on 1t) is it a voltage thing to get this timing equal at higher clocks? Vsoc? Clod vddp? Iod?
> 
> There is a setting in AI tweaker of the Strix II called "Performance enhancer". Do you now what it does by any chance. And which setting would be "off"? Not that is messes with voltages while Im trying to tweak the ram


tPHYRDL is set during memory training. The main contributor is memory speed, then 1t vs 2t, GDM on vs GDM off, followed by CLDO_VDDP. Raising CLDO_VDDP can help bring it into matching values sometimes.

1900/3800 1t GDM Enabled is 26-28 for me
1900/3800 1t GDM Disabled is 28-28 for me
1900/3800 2t GDM Disabled is 26-26 for me

This is why the difference between 1t and 2t without GDM is minimal on my system, but both 1t and 2t with GDM disabled are more performant than 1t GDM enabled.

When you start getting to speeds where tPHYRDL is trying to train 30, you'll likely see F9s. Pushing PAST that to 32 and suddenly it can start working again, there seems to be a training issue with the 30 value.

Performance Enhancer, the one with CB15 etc entries I've never seen explained beyond it can slightly improve performance is certain apps, I leave on Auto.


----------



## LtMatt

CPU-Z seems to report the right clocks, so did Aida64. Ugh, wish there was another app that showed effective clocks.

I'll test CB15 and see if that shows any difference with affinity set between 100 BCLK and 102.25 BCLK. However I think I'll also try your way and test different cores to see if there is a difference in score.

This annoys me to think performance is left on the table, potentially.


----------



## ossimc

So my Mobo won't post at all setting 1T and gdm off even at 3400mhz. 2t and gdm off is possible even at 3800mhz. What do I need to get 1t and gdm off to post? Should I even try?


----------



## tcclaviger

1t GDM off is the most challenging of the three.

Try setting AddrCmdSetup to 56, 1t, GDM Disabled.

The 56 delay reduces the benefit of using 1t GDM disabled, but it is necessary for some boards/CPUs to be 1t no GDM stable.

56, 1t. No GDM should be slightly more performant than 2t GDM disabled.

4x8 on CH7 may not play nicely with 1t GDM off, I don't recall, it's been a while since I used the c7h.


----------



## AXi0M

I NEED AN ADULT!!! i had my memory working great @ 3866 cl16 previously. updated bios to newest 1.2.0.7 to try the TPM fix and couldn't get any memory OC to work at all. flashed back to the previous bios i was using and still can't get any memory oc to work D':

Edit: Upon further inspection, I'm an idiot...carry on

Edit 2: Whoever came up with the names for some of these timings needs a stern talking to, I mean come on "TWRWRSD" "TWRWRSC" ...


----------



## robertr1

1T is also kit dependent. I got 2bdie kits here. One does 1T (gdm off) no problem. Other is a better bin and can do tighter timings but not 1T. They behave the same on intel as well. Both z390 and z690.


----------



## ossimc

tcclaviger said:


> 1t GDM off is the most challenging of the three.
> 
> Try setting AddrCmdSetup to 56, 1t, GDM Disabled.
> 
> The 56 delay reduces the benefit of using 1t GDM disabled, but it is necessary for some boards/CPUs to be 1t no GDM stable.
> 
> 56, 1t. No GDM should be slightly more performant than 2t GDM disabled.
> 
> 4x8 on CH7 may not play nicely with 1t GDM off, I don't recall, it's been a while since I used the c7h.


sorry i need to update my system specs. got 2x16 sticks and the strix wifi II atm


----------



## LtMatt

400 FPS in COD feels sooo good. The 5800X3D provides a nice performance increase vs the 5950X, and of course the 6900 XTXH nails COD performance too. Perfect combination for this game. 
COD Vanguard 5800X3D Benchmark 6900 XTXH Toxic Extreme Edition 1080P Competitive Settings - YouTube


----------



## Nico67

Wreckedge said:


> Tcclaviger
> I didn't find it on Hero WiFi either. I have specific problem with this board. For almost 2 weeks i'm trying to push it into OC 5800x3D. I've managed to insert 47.5 multiplier, but it runs 45.5 at max.
> I have followed many instructions but my board just won't start with BCLK > 100.2. Blackscreen always or memory QC. The memory controller on this 5800x3D is not best. FCLK at max is 1800Mhz.
> 
> Have you seen anyone OCing BCLK of 5800x3D on Crosshair Hero?
> Is it doable even?


I setup a new 5800X3D on my Crosshair VIII Hero Wifi, and I can get it to 101.6850 1897fclk. It won't do the next step up or 3800/1900, just fails to boot code 07. 
Seems to do pretty well at that though, -30 on all cores, just need to figure out why it doesn't like 1900ish fclk, but will run 1933, with whea errors though. My old 5800x would do 1900, but not 1933 giving code 07 on that


----------



## ossimc

i cant boot my board even with 101 bclk even though i can set bclk 101 with Asus turbovcore in windows and it runs the 50mhz+. i mean i have a ****ton of sata drives connected to the board.

Anyhow. i tried GDM OFF and 1T with AddrCmdSetup to 56 and it booted instantly...so this worked. but i couldn get tPHYRDL egual on both sticks nomatter the voltages i applied. any ideas?
i went back to GDM OFF 2T did some new benches in warzone. CO -25 on all cores and AUTO voltages for everything






















i dont know why i got such a buff switching to x570^^ i only had pcie3.0 and a riser cable on the x470 board...maybe thats the cause. or warzone got u huge perf boost in recent update


----------



## bmagnien

ossimc said:


> i cant boot my board even with 101 bclk even though i can set bclk 101 with Asus turbovcore in windows and it runs the 50mhz+. i mean i have a ****ton of sata drives connected to the board.


do you have a link to download the asus turbovcore app?


----------



## LtMatt

@tcclaviger I got round to testing and I agree, it looks like it might just be a reporting error on core 1 regards CPU frequency. Will do some more testing but it is scoring the same or within margin of error as other cores.


----------



## Taraquin

i2hard (youtube) has tested 5800X3D stock vs quite good tuning:
























3-4% to gain from tuning ram from 3600 xmp to 3733cl14 on 3D.

3D is awesome for those who don't bother to tweak


----------



## Nico67

managed to get past 101.7 bclk, dropped fclk and mem multipliers by one. Something really hates 1900 fclk so far, but we'll see what happens if I can approach it again on these multipliers.


----------



## LtMatt

I'd previously hit a wall at around 3950-3970Mhz where I found an odd error or two after 1+ hours of 1usmusv3/Anta777 extreme. I think I've discovered the cause, tRCDRD. I had it set to 15, and moving it to 16 appears to have fixed this error. Annoyingly, this was one of the last timings I tried adjusting, when in hindsight it probably should have been one of the first.


----------



## Nico67

got to 102.9bclk, 103.0 boot loops with d6 error or something. Tried turboV, but while it seems to set higher, effective clocks seem to be what's set in bios?


----------



## LtMatt

Nico67 said:


> got to 102.9bclk, 103.0 boot loops with d6 error or something. Tried turboV, but while it seems to set higher, effective clocks seem to be what's set in bios?


d6 is VGA so likely your graphics card doesn't like it.


----------



## reantum

Hello everyone.


----------



## Fight Game

for anyone having issues with blck oc'ing; doing it this way is only gonna get as strong as it's weakest link that can handle it, between your mb, your gpu, and your ssd's in the first slot. And exaclty the same parts as someone else may not get you the same results. The most I can get with my system is up to about 102.5ish, but took a ton of time testing, and even ruined a couple windows installs. And even after finding my max, both my cpu and cpu/gpu benchmarks were the same, as it was boosting the same whether at 102.5 or 100. The only thuing that gained me anything outside of setting the core boost on, and prefered cores disabled in bios, was setting all cores to -30. I saw gains at -10, then again at -20, and a tiny bit more at -30. Another thing that helped my entire systems latency was completely removing all of amd's software. Until I see results that prove otherwise, I will forever, just unzip the amd file (not simply opening it), then manually apply the driver from the device manager. I've tried every single option in amd's software, and while some is meh, and some is just crap, I've found that having the overall system latency lower, and NOT using any of the options in there and not even using freesync, just regular ol' vnsyc to cap my frames at my moniters rate at 115 provides, sometimes by far, the best gaming experience. My favorite game at the moment is New World and I'm at 115fps most of the time at the highest settings in game, and more importantly, a very nice, low, and very low variance of 8.7ms frame latency. 0 stuttering and smooth as silk. When I'm pvp'ing with crowds I do lower the graphics settings a tad to ensure this, but the game still looks beautiful.


----------



## LtMatt

25 run 1usmusv3 stable, OCCT large stable, y-cruncher stable, now just trimming voltages.


----------



## Nico67

LtMatt said:


> d6 is VGA so likely your graphics card doesn't like it.


 Thx, figured it was likely going to be that even though Asus manual was a bit vague.


----------



## colorfuel

Hi people,

I have a weird issue with my 5800X3D that doesn't make sense to me. 

After waking from sleep, I get roughly about 25mv lower vcore. With PBO2 Tuner at -30 on all cores, this gives me about 1,125-1,138v with 4450Mhz through Cinebench R23 and a score of about 15150 pts.

After reboot, the vcore is about 25mv higher and with PBO2 tuner at -30 on all cores it takes 1,156 and more with only 4375-4425Mhz through Cinebench R23 with a score of 14860 pts.

I understand the difference is negligible, but I would like to know why the vcore is 25mv lower after a wake from sleep than a reboot. Obviously on this CPU the lower vcore is better. 


This is on an old Gigabyte X370 Gaming K7 board with 4x8GB Gskill Flare-X (3600CL16). The Ram stays the same after waking, so no issues there.


----------



## LtMatt

I’ve noticed this change in voltage too and, but I thought it was something to do with BCLK. I think there are a few little quirks with the BIOS.


----------



## Taraquin

Gigabyte is notorious for variable voltage. On my setup dram volt varies by 0.03v, soc by 0.02v, vcore probably varies a bit aswell.


----------



## mct1980

Lots of great tweaks and info on the 5800X3D here. Very happy with mine but when I use the PBO2 tuner to set CO values the frequency drops. Think it was as low as 3900mhz at -30. Any way to fix this?


----------



## Taraquin

mct1980 said:


> Lots of great tweaks and info on the 5800X3D here. Very happy with mine but when I use the PBO2 tuner to set CO values the frequency drops. Think it was as low as 3900mhz at -30. Any way to fix this?


Could be that your bios\agesa throttles clocks instead of clockstreatching when voltage at a given freq becomes too low. Try -25 on CO and see if the same occurs?


----------



## mct1980

Taraquin said:


> Could be that your bios\agesa throttles clocks instead of clockstreatching when voltage at a given freq becomes too low. Try -25 on CO and see if the same occurs?


It's the same but the frequency doesn't drop as much. I'm on 1207 on a ROG Strix B550i. The same thing happened on 1206b or whatever it was before that. Maybe I got a bad sample


----------



## reantum

reantum said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> View attachment 2563278












Disabled Windows Defender, Prefetch. Check this result... The value drops to 55 ns when using Safe Mode.


----------



## lestatdk

reantum said:


> View attachment 2563310
> 
> 
> Disabled Windows Defender, Prefetch. Check this result... The value drops to 55 ns when using Safe Mode.


55 ? wow..


----------



## reantum

lestatdk said:


> 55 ? wow..


In safe mode


----------



## reantum

LtMatt said:


> View attachment 2563291
> 
> 
> 25 run 1usmusv3 stable, OCCT large stable, y-cruncher stable, now just trimming voltages.


can u share ur zentimings? can i try ur profile


----------



## tcclaviger

Nico67 said:


> I setup a new 5800X3D on my Crosshair VIII Hero Wifi, and I can get it to 101.6850 1897fclk. It won't do the next step up or 3800/1900, just fails to boot code 07.
> Seems to do pretty well at that though, -30 on all cores, just need to figure out why it doesn't like 1900ish fclk, but will run 1933, with whea errors though. My old 5800x would do 1900, but not 1933 giving code 07 on that


Code 07 only shows up for me in a specific scenario, the short version is: something on the CPU at 1900 or lower FCLK strap is not happy, only choise is to move freq down a touch.

Longer version is, 1900 FCLK, whether achieved by 100BCLK x 57/3 or 105.6BCLK x 54/3 is roughly the limit. Certain BCLK and strap combinations work up to 1915/3830, my 3900x is the same way and 5950x has a hole from 1877 - 1933 FCLK.

AMD have something stupid going on at/near 1900 FCLK. When manually selecting 58/3 for 1933 or a higher strap, the CPU changes something internally with FCLK management and allows it to run, however using 57/3 or lower doesn't ever trigger the internal change, so it gives qcode 07.

It has little to do with memory speed, almost purely FCLK strap and speed related, however changing Voltages/RTT/ODT can improve it...slightly.


Fight Game said:


> for anyone having issues with blck oc'ing; doing it this way is only gonna get as strong as it's weakest link that can handle it, between your mb, your gpu, and your ssd's in the first slot. And exaclty the same parts as someone else may not get you the same results. The most I can get with my system is up to about 102.5ish, but took a ton of time testing, and even ruined a couple windows installs. And even after finding my max, both my cpu and cpu/gpu benchmarks were the same, as it was boosting the same whether at 102.5 or 100. The only thuing that gained me anything outside of setting the core boost on, and prefered cores disabled in bios, was setting all cores to -30. I saw gains at -10, then again at -20, and a tiny bit more at -30. Another thing that helped my entire systems latency was completely removing all of amd's software. Until I see results that prove otherwise, I will forever, just unzip the amd file (not simply opening it), then manually apply the driver from the device manager. I've tried every single option in amd's software, and while some is meh, and some is just crap, I've found that having the overall system latency lower, and NOT using any of the options in there and not even using freesync, just regular ol' vnsyc to cap my frames at my moniters rate at 115 provides, sometimes by far, the best gaming experience. My favorite game at the moment is New World and I'm at 115fps most of the time at the highest settings in game, and more importantly, a very nice, low, and very low variance of 8.7ms frame latency. 0 stuttering and smooth as silk. When I'm pvp'ing with crowds I do lower the graphics settings a tad to ensure this, but the game still looks beautiful.


Enable Global C-State Control, it will restore boosting to the correct behavior and you will have the increased performance expected with clock rate increases.

CBS > CPU Common Options > 2nd option.



ossimc said:


> i cant boot my board even with 101 bclk even though i can set bclk 101 with Asus turbovcore in windows and it runs the 50mhz+. i mean i have a ****ton of sata drives connected to the board.
> 
> Anyhow. i tried GDM OFF and 1T with AddrCmdSetup to 56 and it booted instantly...so this worked. but i couldn get tPHYRDL egual on both sticks nomatter the voltages i applied. any ideas?
> i went back to GDM OFF 2T did some new benches in warzone. CO -25 on all cores and AUTO voltages for everything
> View attachment 2563137
> View attachment 2563138
> View attachment 2563139
> 
> i dont know why i got such a buff switching to x570^^ i only had pcie3.0 and a riser cable on the x470 board...maybe thats the cause. or warzone got u huge perf boost in recent update


The higher the frame rate, the more PCIE 4.0 on GPUs helps, I am a bit surprised to see the change at that fps. Usually the impact is not very pronounced until 250+ IME.


----------



## SirPerfluous

very clean OS
4x8
stable 40 cycle 1usmus & ABSOLUT

Although, I get 1(one) whea per minute above 1900 
Not as lucky of a chip as my 5600x

Should read bandwidth be more?
Or is it being hurt by 4 dimms?


----------



## tcclaviger

Good work getting it stable. Try bumping PLL to 1.85v, it may help reduce the WHEA frequency or eliminate it.

Write is at the limit -1, it's fine.

(100.1x60/3)*16=32032

WI'll it accept the below and stay stable?
AddrCmdSetup - 0
tWR - 14 or 12
tCKE - 1
tCWL - 12
tRTP - 7 or 6
SD/DDs at 5/6 and 6/7 instead of 6/7 and 7/8

Have a set of GTRS arriving tomorrow, the GVKAs are annoying me and have to go.


----------



## tcclaviger

LtMatt said:


> I'd previously hit a wall at around 3950-3970Mhz where I found an odd error or two after 1+ hours of 1usmusv3/Anta777 extreme. I think I've discovered the cause, tRCDRD. I had it set to 15, and moving it to 16 appears to have fixed this error. Annoyingly, this was one of the last timings I tried adjusting, when in hindsight it probably should have been one of the first.


I completely started from scratch after finding errors where I'd previously tested with none. So frustrating. 1t is just not a thing on the GVKA kits for me, it's "fake stable", it'll pass like 25 rounds of 1usmus but fails extreme777 and absolute.

My primaries can't go below 15-15-14-14-30-44 at 4083MT/s. I had them a little tighter previously and it was causing intermittent errors depending on the training during post.

Really hoping the GTRS 10 layer PCB tolerates over 1.55vdimm better than GVKA 8 layer, which, frankly just don't. GVKAs are weird...tRTP of 5 at 4083 is ok but so many other things are finicky.


----------



## Nico67

tcclaviger said:


> Code 07 only shows up for me in a specific scenario, the short version is: something on the CPU at 1900 or lower FCLK strap is not happy, only choise is to move freq down a touch.
> 
> Longer version is, 1900 FCLK, whether achieved by 100BCLK x 57/3 or 105.6BCLK x 54/3 is roughly the limit. Certain BCLK and strap combinations work up to 1915/3830, my 3900x is the same way and 5950x has a hole from 1877 - 1933 FCLK.
> 
> AMD have something stupid going on at/near 1900 FCLK. When manually selecting 58/3 for 1933 or a higher strap, the CPU changes something internally with FCLK management and allows it to run, however using 57/3 or lower doesn't ever trigger the internal change, so it gives qcode 07.
> 
> It has little to do with memory speed, almost purely FCLK strap and speed related, however changing Voltages/RTT/ODT can improve it...slightly.


Thx 

It seems ok at 1897 101.6bclk, but 07 at 1900 and 1933 on that multiplier combo as bclk is to high. Can only get to 102.9bclk at next multiplier combo, but Turbo V does kindof work and setting bclk at 103.7 odd reboots immediately on set and comes back with 07 also 
1933 did work on 100bclk but with a reasonable WHEA errors running benchs etc.

Working on getting 3787 C14, but that has been a bit tricky, 3800 C16 at 1.38vdimm has been running fine for years, looks like I have to chuck 1.5vdimm + at it.

Having fun though


----------



## Saiger0

For those with resizable Bar enabled. Did you notice any increase in CPU temp?


----------



## Conenubi701

Hey guys, so I've been trying to find the lowest voltage with my 5800x3D and I think I finally found my lowest idle voltage with a Negative Offset on the core (0.2250mv) that has been fully stable. However, I think I can go even lower at load, would my next step be introducing Vdroop via LLC so I have lower voltage at load?


----------



## Sparrow1408

Conenubi701 said:


> Hey guys, so I've been trying to find the lowest voltage with my 5800x3D and I think I finally found my lowest idle voltage with a Negative Offset on the core (0.2250mv) that has been fully stable. However, I think I can go even lower at load, would my next step be introducing Vdroop via LLC so I have lower voltage at load?


Move your LLC to the 2/3rd from the highest.

For Gigabyte that is High or Turbo. Some VDroop is good. It gets talked about a lot on this site if you do a search.









What is VDroop?


I've heard people mention it, but I have no idea what it is




www.overclock.net


----------



## jonRock1992

So, I had my front 360mm GPU rad fans set as intake, and during gaming my 5800X3D was getting up to 58C. Now I flipped my front fans around so that it would exhaust out of the front. I also bought a dust filter kit for this Corsair Air 540 and put 3 Noctua 40mm fans as intake in the rear. So all of my rear fans are intake and my front and top fans are exhaust 🤣. This dropped my CPU temps massively while gaming, and I only see around 52C max now. My CPU is just cooled with a 240mm EK AIO with liquid metal. All of my rad fans are Gentle Typhoons at 1800RPM. My GPU temps are the same too, so it's working well.


Spoiler


----------



## SrSamuel

I'm really new on this stuff. The only BLCK OC I have is from my old i7 4790, which I had up to 106.3 iirc, maybe a little over 105 because I think it was unstable. Then I upgraded to the 3700X when it launched, and now to the 5800X3D. I have pretty much the same settings that I used with the 3700X, in fact I just loaded the profile on my mobo and tried it, then launched CPU Z and Cinebench 15 because it was the only one I had downloaded. It get 83ºC on a Alphacool 420mm AIO with push/pull Artic P14, so it gets pretty toasted (I always wondered if I have done the installation wrong, since I also used to get similar temps on my 3700X).

So which software should I use, settings in mobo and such? I already have a somewhat tuned RAM, which I might be able to improve, but I don't know much either. My mobo is a X470 Taichi with the 4.88 bios. The RAM is at 1.42v.


----------



## Nico67

Seen a few mentions of CPU core offset voltage, how are you manipulating that?

I don't have that option in my CH8-HW bios


----------



## colorfuel

Nico67 said:


> I don't have that option in my CH8-HW bios


I don't have it on my Gigabyte X370 Gaming K7 either. It really depends on the vendors letting users have the option in their bios. Apparently Gigabyte doesn't trust us.


----------



## Conenubi701

Nico67 said:


> Seen a few mentions of CPU core offset voltage, how are you manipulating that?
> 
> I don't have that option in my CH8-HW bios


It's available on the Crosshair VII Hero WiFi. Really weird it's not available on the CH8. Are you on 1207 or 1206b Agesa?


----------



## Nighthog

There is something seriously wrong with the 5800X3D after I changed motherboard...

9/10 times I get a blue screen on boot with it for some reason when I swapped it over to my Aorus X570 Xtreme... All is fine it looks like when you manage to boot but can't really figure out what went wrong with the system when I changed from the MSI to Gigabyte.

Also when the system is colder the frequency increases. What a nuisance to have. There were no issues whatsoever on the MSI board.
I can leave the system running when it boots without hassles but you want a peace of mind than have such a issue rearing it's head every time when you boot.

I did use a Riser cable on the Gigabyte which I've not done before when I changed it around.. Could it be the problem? I noted it could not handle gen4 speeds without stutter and needed to set the link speeds down to 3rd gen PCIE.


----------



## Nico67

Conenubi701 said:


> It's available on the Crosshair VII Hero WiFi. Really weird it's not available on the CH8. Are you on 1207 or 1206b Agesa?


 1207, maybe something they dropped with the last update. Would be handy as I would like to put the CO up a little bit for single core(s) but take a bit off with offset to compensate.


----------



## Sparrow1408

Nighthog said:


> There is something seriously wrong with the 5800X3D after I changed motherboard...
> 
> 9/10 times I get a blue screen on boot with it for some reason when I swapped it over to my Aorus X570 Xtreme... All is fine it looks like when you manage to boot but can't really figure out what went wrong with the system when I changed from the MSI to Gigabyte.
> 
> Also when the system is colder the frequency increases. What a nuisance to have. There were no issues whatsoever on the MSI board.
> I can leave the system running when it boots without hassles but you want a peace of mind than have such a issue rearing it's head every time when you boot.
> 
> I did use a Riser cable on the Gigabyte which I've not done before when I changed it around.. Could it be the problem? I noted it could not handle gen4 speeds without stutter and needed to set the link speeds down to 3rd gen PCIE.


Are you running a fresh windows installation? Sounds like the issue could be OS/Driver related.


----------



## OCmember

@Nighthog Let us know if removing the Riser cable fixes it.


----------



## Nighthog

OCmember said:


> @Nighthog Let us know if removing the Riser cable fixes it.


Might not happen for a few days though. It's a bit of a hassle to deal with the bracket for it. I'll be getting some extra components for my watercooling in a few days so I'll do it when they arrive by just taking out the vertical riser at the same time to see if it's it causing the problem or do I need to do more like remount the CPU or something.
Been having to many issues with this PC as of late to want to bother at the moment.

I'll just have to refrain from doing any reboots for the time until then.


----------



## Melan

Nighthog said:


> Might not happen for a few days though. It's a bit of a hassle to deal with the bracket for it. I'll be getting some extra components for my watercooling in a few days so I'll do it when they arrive by just taking out the vertical riser at the same time to see if it's it causing the problem or do I need to do more like remount the CPU or something.
> Been having to many issues with this PC as of late to want to bother at the moment.
> 
> I'll just have to refrain from doing any reboots for the time until then.


I had random bsod on boot with “memory fast boot” enabled in bios. See if disabling it fixes the issue.


----------



## Conenubi701

Nico67 said:


> 1207, maybe something they dropped with the last update. Would be handy as I would like to put the CO up a little bit for single core(s) but take a bit off with offset to compensate.


Could be 1207 then. CH7 didn't get the 1207 update yet and we're on 1206b. Whenever it comes out I'll hold off and wait until I get confirmation that offset voltage is still available.


----------



## Reznap

Getting double the FPS or more then my 9700k @ 5.1ghz in Valorant.

Agesa 1.2.0.7 with a Asrock x370 Taichi (previously my backup computer with a 1700x)

FYI for those on this older mobo:
boosts to 4550 on single cores and 4450 all core with global c-states 'AUTO'
boosts to only 4450 with global c-states 'Enabled' and 'Disabled'

1900/3800 is occt large stable with dram calculator 'fast 3800 preset'

I've heard the dram calculator is out of date, would anyone with experience take a look at these memory settings and see if I can play with anything?



















Also my mouse feels slightly less "crisp", It feels similar to how my intel system felt before I tightened the memory timings way down. I verified the mouse and keyboard are in the direct connected cpu ports. Are there any settings that heavily effect this that I can play with?

Thank you!


----------



## paih85

hi, do you guys have problem when enable SVM? im just aware when enable svm my bclk become fluctuate 100 - 97. normally without svm enable stable 100-99.98. hurmm


----------



## paih85

paih85 said:


> hi, do you guys have problem when enable SVM? im just aware when enable svm my bclk become fluctuate 100 - 97. normally without svm enable stable 100-99.98. hurmm


problem solve..


----------



## OCmember

@Reznap you want better mouse feel turn off all C states. Global, DF, ... ALL



Reznap said:


> boosts to 4550 on single cores and 4450 all core with global c-states 'AUTO'
> boosts to only 4450 with global c-states 'Enabled' and 'Disabled'


Can also confirm Global C-States (both) set to Auto will show 4550MHz with HWinfo64 & CPUz Bench. ST scores are also ~ 10 points higher.. e.g. Global C-states Disabled will net ~ 616 ST, Global C-states Auto will net ~ 626 ST. This is with my DF-States Disabled.


----------



## 2080tiowner

I've tried to put mine at 0.9v, exactly same performance on games as stock (ex: on Cyberpunk 2077 and Watch dogs legion), I lost approx 15 fps average on Farcry 6 but this game is just loooool.

Boost at 4450 mhz all core... just illogical


----------



## Saiger0

What an amazing cpu the 5800X3D is. I basically managed to turn it into an eco-mode cpu without loosing ANY performance compared to stock. All running* -30 and 90 60 90* limits.
Best part is that I can now run all my pc fans at inaudible rpm.
At this point I bet I can go sub 90W by reducing SOC to 5W.


----------



## 2080tiowner

Saiger0 said:


> What an amazing cpu the 5800X3D is. I basically managed to turn it into an eco-mode cpu without loosing ANY performance compared to stock. All running* -30 and 90 60 90* limits.
> Best part is that I can now run all my pc fans at inaudible rpm.
> At this point I bet I can go sub 90W by reducing SOC to 5W.
> 
> View attachment 2563614


Hi, do you know how to set PPT TDC and EDC at startup with windows task manager ? i know how to set curve but i don't find anything to set PPT TDC ans EDC, thanks for your help !


----------



## Jabdah

Heya Folks

Well well well.... i used this magic PboTuner2 for the first time today... and its outstanding....
Im using MSI B550 Tomahawk with latest BETA Bios 1.2.0.7. RAM is running on 3800
I used -25 on all cores... maybe more is possible.. and PPT 100 / TDC 75 / EDC 95
System was running for more than 4 Hours with Far Cry 6 in Ultra Mode before i did the CineBench

At first the RAM settings:










Nothing Special for the RAM...

Usualy im not making Benchmarks like Cinebench.. but i was interested in what score region i can go.
On the next Screenshot you can see my old 5800x and the new 5800x3D










Well... Almost the the same for a " gaming CPU " 

HWinfo shows the following:









The 5800X3D is boosting at least on 4 cores to 4550MHz..
To be honest, such low temps.. its outstanding - for an Air Cooling PC ( BeQuiet Dark Rock Pro 4 ). Room temp is almost 27 degrees C. atm.

Before people ask why only sending Cine Scroes... here is a benchmark result for DIRT 5 in Ultra Mode

Benchmark results:
AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D 8-Core Processor (32 Gb) / NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti
average FPS = 95.8
min FPS = 73.0
max FPS = 140.9
1% low FPS = 83.5
0.1% low FPS = 80.8
averageCpuTimeMs = 3.94
averageGpuTime: WholeFrame (ms) = 10.08
averageGpuTime: DepthPass (ms) = 1.01
averageGpuTime: OpaquePass (ms) = 3.77
averageGpuTime: PrplDepthPass (ms) = 0.00
averageGpuTime: BlendedPass (ms) = 0.17
averageGpuTime: Shadows (ms) = 0.71
averageGpuTime: LightProbes (ms) = 0.81
averageGpuTime: SimpleViews (ms) = 0.33
averageGpuTime: Lighting (ms) = 0.63
averageGpuTime: UpdateHistory (ms) = 0.28
averageGpuTime: PostEffects (ms) = 0.18

Settings:
Image Quality: Ultra High
VSync: Enabled
Dynamic Resolution Scaling: Disabled
Final Resolution: Explicit (2560 x 1440)
History Resolution: Explicit (2560 x 1440)
Render Resolution: Explicit (2560 x 1440)
Geometry Quality: Ultra High
Tesselation Quality: Ultra High
Shadow Quality: Ultra High
Volumetric Quality: Ultra High
Cloud Quality: Ultra High
Procedural Quality: Ultra High
Global Illumination Quality: Ultra High
Ambient Occlusion Quality: Ultra High

Nothing special at all, but much faster as before ( with my old 5800X )

This is my very first posting on this board... forgive me my bad english, im a bit older.. school is 40 years ago 

Thanks for your time...
Yours Jabdah

Edit: added a game bench


----------



## Saiger0

2080tiowner said:


> Hi, do you know how to set PPT TDC and EDC at startup with windows task manager ? i know how to set curve but i don't find anything to set PPT TDC ans EDC, thanks for your help !


the author of the program updated it so we can now automatically apply limits aswell! 
check here for the new pbo tuner: CoreCycler - tool for testing Curve Optimizer settings and my comment below with the task.


----------



## Teussi

OCmember said:


> @Reznap you want better mouse feel turn off all C states. Global, DF, ... ALL
> 
> 
> Can also confirm Global C-States (both) set to Auto will show 4550MHz with HWinfo64 & CPUz Bench. ST scores are also ~ 10 points higher.. e.g. Global C-states Disabled will net ~ 616 ST, Global C-states Auto will net ~ 626 ST. This is with my DF-States Disabled.


I followed the first post tips also and now seeing the same effect on the boost. Do you think we should still use those first post settings even it doesn't boost to 4550 ?


----------



## OCmember

@Teussi I'm indifferent with some of the suggestions on the first post. I personally think Auto is better than Enabled so far but time will tell. I'm personally testing between Auto and Disabled. Auto is impressive so far in gaming.


----------



## ossimc

anyone knows wich of the ASUS Crosshairs VIII have an external clock gen? The dark hero has one if i read correct


----------



## Taraquin

Reznap said:


> Getting double the FPS or more then my 9700k @ 5.1ghz in Valorant.
> 
> Agesa 1.2.0.7 with a Asrock x370 Taichi (previously my backup computer with a 1700x)
> 
> FYI for those on this older mobo:
> boosts to 4550 on single cores and 4450 all core with global c-states 'AUTO'
> boosts to only 4450 with global c-states 'Enabled' and 'Disabled'
> 
> 1900/3800 is occt large stable with dram calculator 'fast 3800 preset'
> 
> I've heard the dram calculator is out of date, would anyone with experience take a look at these memory settings and see if I can play with anything?
> 
> View attachment 2563543
> 
> 
> View attachment 2563544
> 
> 
> Also my mouse feels slightly less "crisp", It feels similar to how my intel system felt before I tightened the memory timings way down. I verified the mouse and keyboard are in the direct connected cpu ports. Are there any settings that heavily effect this that I can play with?
> 
> Thank you!


Mostly looks good. Try:
RC 45
RTP 6
RFC 264 or 256 (if vdimm is 1.5v or more) 
RDWR 9 or 8

You can also try lowering CCD and VDDP voltage (0.9-0.95v CCD/0.85-0.95V VDDP) for lower consumption/more powerbudget for cores, SOC and IOD may go up to 0.05v lower, check with aida and hwmon64 if oerformance regresses or you get WHEA19.


----------



## ilmazzo

Reznap said:


> Getting double the FPS or more then my 9700k @ 5.1ghz in Valorant.
> 
> Agesa 1.2.0.7 with a Asrock x370 Taichi (previously my backup computer with a 1700x)


lol asrock delivered a 1.2.0.7 agesa bios for the x370 but not for the x470....makes sense! I won't buy this CPU until I get a proper agesa bios, hope it happens before I want to switch to AM5 lol


----------



## Teussi

OCmember said:


> @Teussi I'm indifferent with some of the suggestions on the first post. I personally think Auto is better than Enabled so far but time will tell. I'm personally testing between Auto and Disabled. Auto is impressive so far in gaming.


CPPC still what the first post says? Cant see much difference with auto 🤔

 CPPC Enabled
CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled

i'm changing Global C-State Control back to auto for now.


----------



## OCmember

Teussi said:


> CPPC still what the first post says? Cant see much difference with auto 🤔
> 
> CPPC Enabled
> CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled
> 
> i'm changing Global C-State Control back to auto for now.


In my experience so far CPPC Enabled + CPPC PC Disabled has odd behavior with the games I play. It's good for synthetic benchmarks and CS:GO seems ok with it but it consistently gives UT4 random input lag. Not like stuttering but a smooth delay: then again UT4 is an unfinished game that was left in "Pre-Alpha" I just disabled CPPC while leaving Global C-States set on Auto and will be testing things further.


----------



## Teussi

OCmember said:


> In my experience so far CPPC Enabled + CPPC PC Disabled has odd behavior with the games I play. It's good for synthetic benchmarks and CS:GO seems ok with it but it consistently gives UT4 random input lag. Not like stuttering but a smooth delay: then again UT4 is an unfinished game that was left in "Pre-Alpha" I just disabled CPPC while leaving Global C-States set on Auto and will be testing things further.


Thanks for your input. I will try also see differences between those CPPC variations.


----------



## Conenubi701

So I've come across a weird bug and I don't know if it's been mentioned. Using a negative offset in core voltage drops my CPU performance. Back to Auto / Stock it goes back to the stock performance. Weirdest thing. It's a difference of 2000 points in firestrike.

Board is Crosshair VII Hero


----------



## Toma

New agesa *V2 *1.2.0.7 out 


> fix certain stability issues with the Ryzen 7 5800X3D, as well as permit BClk overclocking on the chip as long as the CPU does not draw more than 1.35 V in the Vcore voltage domain.


----------



## faramir4598

@Conenubi701 
try to not go too far, ie instead 30 offset put in 15 or 20.


----------



## yzonker

So what does agesa V2 1.2.0.7 change in regards to bclk OC'ing? Seems like we were already doing that.


----------



## bmagnien

Does it allow BCLK without external clockgen now???


----------



## Reznap

OCmember said:


> In my experience so far CPPC Enabled + CPPC PC Disabled has odd behavior with the games I play. It's good for synthetic benchmarks and CS:GO seems ok with it but it consistently gives UT4 random input lag. Not like stuttering but a smooth delay: then again UT4 is an unfinished game that was left in "Pre-Alpha" I just disabled CPPC while leaving Global C-States set on Auto and will be testing things further.


Good test OCmember, looking forward to seeing your results.

SMT on or off for low input lag?


----------



## TrigrH

Toma said:


> New agesa *V2 *1.2.0.7 out


Isn't V2 the name of all AGESA codes? This is just 1.2.0.7 right? If it was a new version it would have a new name. Eg 1.2.0.7b


----------



## colorfuel

The V2 1.2.0.7. version is what we've had for practically a month now. 

Here is the one I've been using on my Gigabyte X370 Gaming K7:


----------



## CCoR

What's everyone using for a powerplan for 3d?


----------



## Nighthog

OCmember said:


> @Nighthog Let us know if removing the Riser cable fixes it.


After doing some few tests it seems to be related to FCLK.
The X570 Xtreme just can't do stable 1900FCLK it seems with this 5800X3D sample. Got more errors than was expected after a few tries and things just started working when I did 1866FCLK instead and lower values.
Didn't have anywhere as much issues on the MSI board like this to do 1900FCLK or anything else close to it. Needed to push more voltage etc overall now to be able to run at all.
It's not entirely verified it's only this but the frequency of issues decreased significantly when I stopped trying to run 1900FCLK.


----------



## OCmember

Nighthog said:


> After doing some few tests it seems to be related to FCLK.
> The X570 Xtreme just can't do stable 1900FCLK it seems with this 5800X3D sample. Got more errors than was expected after a few tries and things just started working when I did 1866FCLK instead and lower values.
> Didn't have anywhere as much issues on the MSI board like this to do 1900FCLK or anything else close to it. Needed to push more voltage etc overall now to be able to run at all.
> It's not entirely verified it's only this but the frequency of issues decreased significantly when I stopped trying to run 1900FCLK.


Good, now you know a little bit more about what's going on with it. It's interesting that the MSI board handles 1900 FCLK better than the Xtreme with the same chip. I know my chip is riding the borderline with 1900. It was giving me WHEA errors every 10 days then it stopped on the 25th of May and haven't had one since, fingers crossed. What's more interesting is that the higher I was pushing SOC volts to get rid of some odd sound issue I was having didn't help but what did help was lowering the SOC volts to a hair above 1v from 1.087v. If 1900 works in the MSI board I'd use that board for gaming. 

Did the rest of your parts come in for your water cooling?


----------



## OCmember

Reznap said:


> Good test OCmember, looking forward to seeing your results.
> 
> SMT on or off for low input lag?


Thanks, but I'm not really doing anything scientific or measurable, however there have been a lot of tweak pages, write-ups, etc covering things like C-states, SMT/HT, etc. I can't scientifically speak on SMT/HT. I personally have kept it off for most of my time spent gaming and have tried it enabled at times. If anything I'll revisit SMT after dabbling in other bios settings that effect gaming/system behavior and latency.


----------



## BCB57

Lionvibez said:


> View attachment 2556582
> 
> 
> Direct link here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Debug.7z
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


Note: If you try this and like it, you'll probably want to download this "cli" version, which allows command line or Windows Task Scheduler to apply your desired values on startup. 





Debug-CLI.7z







drive.google.com




Otherwise, you'll need to reapply your settings with each start/login/wake from sleep.


----------



## Achilles777

tcclaviger said:


> *Scroll Down For Gaming Results If Not Interested In Details*
> 
> TLDR: 5800X3D is a monster at gaming, is easily OCd, and runs hot and beats even a tuned 5950x in most games; for general computing the 5800x, and more importantly now, the 5700x trounce it when OCd as well but cannot match it in gaming. Buy whichever fits your use case better.
> 
> 
> My TLDR recommendations for optimum X3D performance:
> 
> AMD CBS > NBIO > SMU > CPPC Enabled​
> AMD CBS > NBIO > SMU > CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled​
> AMD CBS > CPU > Global C-State Control Enabled​
> Use "the tool" or PBO2 Tuner to set CO curve verified with Corecycler AVX2 test.​
> RAM bandwidth seems to be more beneficial than tight latency, obviously fast and tight is best.​
> Keep SOC, CLDO VDDP, CCD, IOD voltages as low as you can for stability to preserve power envelope.​
> PLL of 1.85-1.95 seem to work well for higher FCLK. 2.0+ can cause USB dropout. 1.75 Observed stable at 3800/1900.​
> 
> *//BELOW THIS ARE EARLY BETA BIOS IMPRESSIONS//*
> Initial thoughts on an early sample 5800X3D and some overclocking info/results.​
> 
> Skatter Bencher #29 covers the method, all Crosshair boards with the BCLK overclocking support settings can do it.
> AGESA 1206b is the earliest found that operates correctly. 1203 - 1205 confirmed to boot and work, but don't have functional performance boost so it sits at base clock of 3.4 ghz.
> Avoid upgrading AGESA without research beyond 1206b for now if everything is working as intended, AMD can make permanent changes to the CPU and we all know how useful the notes are...."Improved system performance".
> VID is way under the Robert Hallock mentioned 1.3 to 1.35 vcore limit, low to mid 1.2s mutli core and high 1.1s single core, I verified with an accurate DMM and read points were ~20mv over reported SVI2, inline with previous CPUs that have been in this C6E. My 105.4 BCLK has a +0.0125 offset applied, just enough to get it to boost properly again. VID has never exceed 1.288, SVI2 has never exceed 1.269 using that small offset. No crashes, no CO used, no changes to PBO limits, LLC Auto.
> PCIE will revert at some point as you climb BCLK, eg 4 to 3, or 3 to 2. I got away with manually setting PCIE 16_1 to 3.0 and the m.2 drive to 3.0 YMMV, particularly with PCIE 4.
> It's crazy hot, be ready, OCing on air or aio and keeping it cool is going to be a challenge.
> PBO2 Tuner (link in post 13 by Lionvibes)allows CO and PBO limits to be manipulated (lower only), do so carefully if you it, it doesn't behave quite the same as other zen3s do. For those who used a Zen 2 x cpu and a Zen 2 xt cpu, it boosts more like the xt variant. Flatlining target speed if temp headroom is available instead of floating like Zen 2x and Zen 3 Dual CCD chips.
> Aida 64 memory testing is not a forte of the X3D  It doesn't do well there. The extra L3 incurs an L3 cache latency increase, and the relatively low clocks (for Zen 3) don't do any favors to bandwidth or latency. 5800x latencies of ~+4 ns are normal, L3 cache latency of ~12.5 is normal.
> Outside gaming, other apps are equal with 5800x if clock speed is equal or equal to 5800x at a 200mhz deficit, depending on the specific application. In a few cases it covers up to a 400mhz speed defecit.
> I forgot how nice it is to have to not deal with CO, Scalar, Multiplier, DOCS, per loaded core count multiplier, avx offsets, ring buses etc etc etc etc... Just find max stable BCLK, min voltage required, tune memory and send it. So much less work than fully tuning a 5950x.
> Max CPU speed is constrained by tolerance to BCLK increases of the GPU. The 3080ti simply doesn't like anything over 102.8, where the 2080ti would tolerate much higher, 110 was bootable but I didn't try past that. Will put effort into finding ways we can all benefit by increasing GPU tolerance to BCLK increases in the future.
> 
> 
> Overclocked testing being done with this memory configuration, TM5 stable, no WHEAs. Stockish testing done at 1900/3800, otherwise identical timings:
> View attachment 2556486
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Early Testing
> 
> 
> 
> *The below early testing results were done using a chiller on a C6E*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser
> 
> 
> Benchmark results for an ASUS System Product Name with an AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D 8-Core Processor processor.
> 
> 
> 
> browser.geekbench.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser - Updated, new fastest 8 core Zen 3 GB5 multi on Hwbot.
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4689.49 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR This is 4795 Max boost single core.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cinebench - R23 Multi Core with BenchMate overclocking records @ HWBOT
> 
> 
> Overclocking records
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hwbot.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Low Effort 2080ti 3dMark Results:*
> TS- I scored 16 189 in Time Spy
> TSE- I scored 7 622 in Time Spy Extreme
> FS- I scored 36 051 in Fire Strike
> FSE- I scored 19 565 in Fire Strike Extreme
> FS-U- I scored 10 136 in Fire Strike Ultra
> PR- I scored 10 863 in Port Royal
> CPU- I scored 0 in CPU Profile
> 
> *Low Effort 3080ti 3dMark Results (all updated with C8E motherboard):*
> TS- I scored 20 458 in Time Spy +26.3%
> TSE- I scored 10 136 in Time Spy Extreme +33%
> FS- I scored 41 994 in Fire Strike +16.5%
> FSE- I scored 26 040 in Fire Strike Extreme +33%
> FS-U- I scored 14 473 in Fire Strike Ultra +42.8%
> PR- I scored 15 192 in Port Royal +39.6%
> 
> 
> - for overclocking results, max expected gains are easy, since any increase over 100 bclk is the same % gain. There are cases where it both over and under delivers expected results.
> 
> - Mostly an effort to validate when and where it's showing improvements, plus provide some stock X3D numbers that don't use gimped 3200 or 3600 memory configurations like many of the results in media.
> 
> *Only games with built in benchmarks will be tested, no time for or interest in custom run testing and online games are far too variable IMHO. *The one exception will be Star Citizen, a game that is CPU bottlenecked on every CPU in existence at every resolution and setting currently.​Star Citizen, basically defies benchmarking, but here are my impressions and observations.
> -Objectively it is a typical 10-30 fps better than 5950x in CPU constrained areas, new Babbage, loreville, space. The HUD no longer drags frame rate down in ships, so you don't get a big fps boost looking away from HUD. Long distance QT showed 130-163 fps range, traversing around a planet in QT was 120sih, New Babbage 70-80 typical with spikes over 110 and min around 60. Loreville 80-95 typical with min around 60 in New Deal. Grim Hex is basically a gain of 20 fps almost everywhere.
> - Subjectively it feels night and day better. Frame pacing feels improved and average rates being higher makes everything much nicer. The X3D+2080ti runs it better, in all areas than 5950x+3080ti, to include space.
> 
> *SotTR:* reran with v-sync off, it changed nothing, +/- 1 fps average, gains constrained by GPU bottleneck, mind blown a Ryzen is bottlenecked by a shunted 2080ti at 1080p Lowest. SotTR is showing typical love for all improvements in setup and shows gains as expected:
> 
> 2080ti results:
> Overclocked
> 720 - Lowest(6% Gain) 1080-Lowest (4.8% Gain) 1080-Medium(1.3% Gain) 1440-Medium(0.5% Gain)
> View attachment 2556488
> View attachment 2556489
> View attachment 2556490
> View attachment 2556491
> 
> 
> Stockish:
> 720 - Lowest 1080 - Lowest 1080 - Medium 1440 - Medium
> View attachment 2556521
> View attachment 2556520
> View attachment 2556519
> View attachment 2556518
> 
> 
> 3080ti results:
> Overclocked:
> View attachment 2557075
> View attachment 2557076
> View attachment 2557077
> View attachment 2557078
> 
> *Horizon Zero Dawn:* Original Quality Setting, V-sync off, no scaling:
> 
> Cleary HZD is more GPU constrained than SotTR is, in fact, at 1440p, the GPU and CPU performed slightly better while running the stock test, and the results are better than OC results. I consider this as likely test variance, one may have been done at the top of my coolant temp window (55f) and one at the bottom(48f) as the chiller cycled on and off or some windows foolery going on in the background.
> 
> 2080ti results:
> Overclocked
> 720 (2.1% gain) - 1080 (1% gain) - 1440 (regression/variance)
> View attachment 2556508
> View attachment 2556510
> View attachment 2556509
> 
> 
> Stockish:
> 720 - 1080 - 1440
> View attachment 2556562
> View attachment 2556563
> View attachment 2556564
> 
> 
> 3080ti results:
> Overclocked:
> 
> *CB 2077:* Default High Preset, Vsync off, Fullscreen, No DLSS:
> 
> 2080ti results:
> Overclocked
> 720(2.2% gain) - 1080 (1.1% gain) - 1440 (% gain)
> View attachment 2556667
> View attachment 2556666
> View attachment 2556665
> 
> Stockish:
> 720 - 1080 - 1440
> View attachment 2556629
> View attachment 2556630
> View attachment 2556779
> 
> 
> 3080ti results:
> Overclocked:
> 720 (-5%) - 1080 (+19.4%) - 1440 (+29.6%)
> View attachment 2557079
> View attachment 2557080
> View attachment 2557081
> 
> 
> *FF14 Shadowbringers:* Desktop(High) Preset (reBAR On/Off = no change here)
> Results here are astounding. The stockish 5800x3d and 2080ti at 2250mhz+1250mem kills my 5950x when it's running 5250mhz effective boost clocks even when I keep the coolant at 35f + 3080ti at 2350mhz+1330mem. Shows just how CPU bound the FF14 engine is.
> 
> 2080ti results:
> Overclocked:
> 720(5% gain) - 1080 (4.6% gain) - 1440 (1.7% gain)
> View attachment 2556658
> View attachment 2556659
> View attachment 2556660
> 
> Stockish:
> 720 - 1080 - 1440
> View attachment 2556641
> View attachment 2556640
> View attachment 2556639
> 
> 
> 3080ti results:
> Overclocked:
> 720 (-2.4%) - 1080 (+3%) - 1440 (+15%)
> View attachment 2557019
> View attachment 2557018
> View attachment 2557020
> 
> 
> *Assassins Creed Odyssey: *Very High Preset
> Did not correct strange behavior prior to swapping 3080ti in for 2080ti OC results. Highly volatile results, it's honestly a trash benchmark, but here it is.
> 
> 2080ti results:
> Stockish:
> 720 - 1080 - 1440 - 3440
> View attachment 2556654
> View attachment 2556655
> View attachment 2556656
> View attachment 2556657
> 
> 
> 3080ti results:
> Overclocked:
> View attachment 2557034
> View attachment 2557031
> View attachment 2557033
> View attachment 2557032
> 
> 
> 5950x head 2 head testing canceled, simply don't care to use my time for it. X3D is faster in nearly every game and nearly imperceptiblly slower in most non-gaming general use loads. Productivity obviously the 5950x crushes the X3D.
> 
> Don't need tests and graphs for that info lol.


Have anyone tried 5100mhz memory kit with 5800x3d?


----------



## BCB57

Teussi said:


> Thanks for your input. I will try also see differences between those CPPC variations.


Interestingly enough, in my experience results have been best with both CPPC and CPPC Preferred Cores DISABLED. MSI X570 Unify on 1.2.0.6c. Maybe the "best" setting for these just varies with individual CPU variation... perhaps the performance/efficiency spread between strongest and weakest cores? FWIW I've also observed that with both CPPC settings disabled, the CPU cores clock down as low as 2200 Mhz when idle. With either CPPC setting enabled (or "auto"), they don't drop below 3400.

My current settings: PBO2 Tuner -30 -23 -30 -23 -30 -30 -27 -30, power limits (set in BIOS) PPT 105, TDC 60, EDC 95. CB23 multi (w/ normal background processes running) 14,7XX @ max CPU temp of 72C during the runs.


----------



## Saiger0

I also did some testing regarding the impact of C States on the max. single core boost frequency.
On my MB (MSI X470 Gaming Pro Carbon, AGESA 1207) I can only reach 4550mhz with C states enabled. Auto and disabled lock single core boosts to a maximum of 4450mhz.
Presumablly because auto = c states off.

Does anyone have more insight into why the boost freq. is linked to an energy saving feature in the first place? For me it would make MORE sense if c states disabled (no power saving) would unlock 4550mhz boost. Not the other way around. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Reznap

OCmember said:


> Good, now you know a little bit more about what's going on with it. It's interesting that the MSI board handles 1900 FCLK better than the Xtreme with the same chip. I know my chip is riding the borderline with 1900. It was giving me WHEA errors every 10 days then it stopped on the 25th of May and haven't had one since, fingers crossed. What's more interesting is that the higher I was pushing SOC volts to get rid of some odd sound issue I was having didn't help but what did help was lowering the SOC volts to a hair above 1v from 1.087v. If 1900 works in the MSI board I'd use that board for gaming.
> 
> Did the rest of your parts come in for your water cooling?


Can confirm that lowering SOC made me more stable at 1900 as well. I was having issues at 1.09 ( AUTO setting for me), lowered to 1.05 and was stable.


----------



## bloot

MSI adding CO, PBO, SMT and negative offset voltage on next bios FINALLY


















5800X3D Undervolting / Negative C.O. Settings | MSI Global English Forum - Index


----------



## paih85

bloot said:


> MSI adding CO, PBO, SMT and negative offset voltage on next bios FINALLY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5800X3D Undervolting / Negative C.O. Settings | MSI Global English Forum - Index


support boost override?


----------



## bloot

paih85 said:


> support boost override?


I don't know, could not test it yet, my mobo is a B550 Tomahawk, it's only out for the X570 Unify for the moment afaik.


----------



## BCB57

YES!  (Just my reaction... not answering a question there. I have the X570 Unify and have downloaded that BIOS, but would rather wait until its on the official support page... we'll see if my patience holds.)


----------



## Jabdah

Sorry if im wrong now... but the chance that a B550 will have the ability to change the BLCK is near zero? I use the Mag 550 Tomahawk. This board dont have a clock generator?!. Excuse me if im wrong... im not a specialist for mainboards


----------



## bloot

Jabdah said:


> Sorry if im wrong now... but the chance that a B550 will have the ability to change the BLCK is near zero? I use the Mag 550 Tomahawk. This board dont have a clock generator?!. Excuse me if im wrong... im not a specialist for mainboards


B550 Tomahawk can do BCLK OC actually










Haven't tried higher than 103.7MHz yet due to possible sata drives damage (I have 3 of them)


----------



## Jabdah

bloot said:


> B550 Tomahawk can do BCLK OC actually
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't tried higher than 103.7MHz yet due to possible sata drives damage (I have 3 of them)


Hi,

is it normal thet the value change to red color ?
See the screenshot:


----------



## th3illusiveman

Any news on if any other vendors (like Asus) will get the PBO bios update too?


----------



## Nighthog

OCmember said:


> Good, now you know a little bit more about what's going on with it. It's interesting that the MSI board handles 1900 FCLK better than the Xtreme with the same chip. I know my chip is riding the borderline with 1900. It was giving me WHEA errors every 10 days then it stopped on the 25th of May and haven't had one since, fingers crossed. What's more interesting is that the higher I was pushing SOC volts to get rid of some odd sound issue I was having didn't help but what did help was lowering the SOC volts to a hair above 1v from 1.087v. If 1900 works in the MSI board I'd use that board for gaming.
> 
> Did the rest of your parts come in for your water cooling?


1866FCLK does still on occasion cause issues at boot, but not as frequently as 1900FCLK did. So there is some other issue at hand with the X570 Xtreme & 5800X3D combo.
Just did some maintenance on my loop but didn't remember to try without the riser when I rebuilt the loop after I tried some cleaning agents to try have some gunk removed.

My parts arrived but were not compatible as I had thought, Quick connections can't be used as I had planned at all so my rebuild ideas where kinda scrapped. Would need more adapters but even then the ideas I had would not work. Not enough clearance when using the QC's as I had wanted directly to the distro. So it's largely not used at the moment.


----------



## Luggage

Jabdah said:


> Hi,
> 
> is it normal thet the value change to red color ?
> See the screenshot:
> View attachment 2564249


Yes - it's to stop you from doing stupid things unless you know what you are doing.


----------



## Jabdah

Luggage said:


> Yes - it's to stop you from doing stupid things unless you know what you are doing.


Thanks


----------



## Jabdah

Luggage said:


> Yes - it's to stop you from doing stupid things unless you know what you are doing.


I have a question... ive set BCLK to 101 , saved settings... reboot... BAM - no more boot possible.... had to CLR CMOS, now im up an running again with all settings like before... beside this BCLK thing 

Now the question: i know BCLK will OC the whole board.... So i have to lower RAM Speed and so on.. What exactly i have to reduce at all?


----------



## BNSoul

Saiger0 said:


> I also did some testing regarding the impact of C States on the max. single core boost frequency.
> On my MB (MSI X470 Gaming Pro Carbon, AGESA 1207) I can only reach 4550mhz with C states enabled. Auto and disabled lock single core boosts to a maximum of 4450mhz.
> Presumablly because auto = c states off.


My 5800X3D boosts to 4550 (obviously when just one or two cores are loaded) with c-states enabled, auto or disabled, the setting doesn't seem to make a difference in this regard except for idle states engaging faster when enabled, however in "auto" mode it does seem to boost more often to 4550 (might be placebo) and definitely CPU-Z single core results are consistently 1% better. This is on Aorus Elite X570 on AGESA 1.2.0.7 beta.

How long does your 3D stays at 4550 before dropping to 4450 and back to 4550 again? For me it's just mere seconds. All-core 4450 on the other hand is usually unwavering while gaming / typical workloads.

I'm sure it will take a bit before AMD polish the microcode for this amazing CPU. As of now there's wildly different results depending on PC config.


----------



## Saiger0

BNSoul said:


> My 5800X3D boosts to 4550 (obviously when just one or two cores are loaded) with c-states enabled, auto or disabled, the setting doesn't seem to make a difference in this regard except for idle states engaging faster when enabled, however in "auto" mode it does seem to boost more often to 4550 (might be placebo) and definitely CPU-Z single core results are consistently 1% better. This is on Aorus Elite X570 on AGESA 1.2.0.7 beta.


Yea considering that multiple people seem to report different behaviour in regards to c states on off or auto, I think it doesnt behave fully as amd intended it to do.



BNSoul said:


> I'm sure it will take a bit before AMD polish the microcode for this amazing CPU. As of now there's wildly different results depending on PC config.


true



BNSoul said:


> How long does your 3D stays at 4550 before dropping to 4450 and back to 4550 again? For me it's just mere seconds. All-core 4450 on the other hand is usually unwavering while gaming / typical workloads.


On stock settings I also never see the 4550 mhz for more than a few seconds.
Since im using CO -30 on all cores I have disabled c states for stability reasons and therefore never reach 4550mhz nowdays. I´ve testet with SOTR multiple times and don´t notice a difference between havng the higher boost or not. But I´ve had bad experiences with c sates in the past (whea errors, usb drop out) so I leave it disabled.


----------



## Luggage

Jabdah said:


> I have a question... ive set BCLK to 101 , saved settings... reboot... BAM - no more boot possible.... had to CLR CMOS, now im up an running again with all settings like before... beside this BCLK thing
> 
> Now the question: i know BCLK will OC the whole board.... So i have to lower RAM Speed and so on.. What exactly i have to reduce at all?


I don’t bclk OC on Ryzen because of what I wrote in that reply.

I suggest you do a lot more reading before you corrupt you installation if this is your first time.


----------



## ObscureScience

I have installed the 5800x3d now. All I did was load fail safe defaults, set xmp and install new chipset drivers.
Cb23 all core never goes above 4281, temp was 85c.
Single thread was abysmal, It was down to 1.5-2 GHz. Temp was about 60c.

Running 1.2.0.7 x370 prime pro.


----------



## Blameless

Been testing the new AGESA 1.2.0.7 beta firmware on my ASRock B550 for the last several days. So far it's not much different from the prior 1.2.0.6c firmware in practice, but there is now the ability to adjust LCLK frequency directly. Haven't played with this much yet, but once I'm sure there are no other meaningful variables, I'll see if playing with it allows me to push past 1900 FCLK on my 5800X3D sample.


----------



## ObscureScience

I misread the Hwinfo values. So the boost I actually got was 4441 on 2 cores during mt bench. And 4541 on 1 core during st bench.
Scores were 14432 mt, 1466 st.

Ok some more scores.

14432 default bios. 85c.
14319 CPPC PC disabled, CPPC enabled
14644 -10 pbo2
14733 -15 pbo2
14836 -20 pbo2
14901 -25 pbo2
15013 -30 pbo2. 79c.


----------



## BNSoul

Below HWInfo stats with *c-states on "auto"* AGESA 1.2.0.7 Aorus X570 Elite. I did input a lazy curve of *-25 all-core* and run some pcsx2 game with the emulator set to run on a single core, it was jumping from one core to another and in a matter of seconds all 8 cores had boosted to *4550*, then I stopped everything and watched it going down to *2880 *all core. So yeah, I don't know I can take it beyond stock values with my 16-19 Hynix CJRs.

This with 42 ºC outside in the middle of one of the worst heat waves I've ever suffered.


----------



## 1ah1

beta bios (msi forum)
MSI beta bios which has additional vcore offset, PBO and curve optimizer for 5800X3D


----------



## Mask

Out of curiosity, what is the highest performing kit of 4 x 16GB of DDR4 at this point? I am really loving 64GB of RAM, but I do wonder if I should try aim higher than 3733 16-19-19-19-35 1T 1.4v. I do agree with tcclaviger that the 5800X3D benefits a lot from high speed, low latency DDR4. I definitely cannot go back to 32GB. I did not expect my RAM usage to explode with this new CPU (upgraded from i7-5775C); but this CPU is so great at running 2 games at once, a few servers for games, and a small RAMDisk for a much faster scratch drive than my NVME drive.

I purposefully went NVME storage only for the possibility of BCLK overclocking, but I do not know how well the B550 Tomahawk and a Samsung 980 Pro can handle it. So happy with how cheap this build was though. I consider the 5800X3D such a great deal at $450 for the games I play. The performance gain on CPU bound games like Dwarf Fortress is insane. With the -25 to -30mv curve optimizer, there is so much thermal headroom with the Noctua D15 I am using. That is why I am tempted start the BCLK OC. Power draw is so much lower than my overclocked i7-5775C, an undervolted 5800X3D would be a perfect fit for a DTR if it had a tiny iGPU like Zen 4 will have.

Cannot wait to see this CPU stretch its legs with RTX 4000/RX 7000. The 1080 Ti FE I am using feels so slow now; and it is by far the loudest component in the system. With how much better RX 6000 handles BCLK OC over RTX 3000, I do wonder if RTX 4000 is going to be a problem with BCLK OC.


----------



## loki_toki

1.2.0.7 agesa BIOS update Is out for b550s asrock finally


----------



## loki_toki

1ah1 said:


> beta bios (msi forum)
> MSI beta bios which has additional vcore offset, PBO and curve optimizer for 5800X3D


anyone can confirm PBO boost override working?


----------



## BCB57

loki_toki said:


> anyone can confirm PBO boost override working?


It did not work for me. Adding any value (I tried 25 and 50 Mhz) to this setting led my 5800X3D to not boost at all; no core would exceed 3600 Mhz. Removing the "boost override" immediately restored normal boosting behavior. Hopefully this will be fixed in next release.


----------



## Blameless

Mask said:


> Out of curiosity, what is the highest performing kit of 4 x 16GB of DDR4 at this point?


Two of the highest performing dual-rank Samsung B-die kits you can find.



loki_toki said:


> anyone can confirm PBO boost override working?


I'm doubtful this will ever work.


----------



## MarlowXim

BCB57 said:


> It did not work for me. Adding any value (I tried 25 and 50 Mhz) to this setting led my 5800X3D to not boost at all; no core would exceed 3600 Mhz. Removing the "boost override" immediately restored normal boosting behavior. Hopefully this will be fixed in next release.


I briefly tried it with an X570 Unify with the AD3 release. I got the same results that and changes end up nerfing the boost. Although I did see single threaded boosting to be more consistent. The release I think has more clockgen support not sure if it is a new menu with values you can modify similar to intel options after googling. I messed with it and could not go over 102.8 bclk d3 error, which was graphics failure. I switched back to the B550 Unify where I can get 103+ bclk more consistently and stable.


----------



## Alemancio

Mask said:


> Out of curiosity, what is the highest performing kit of 4 x 16GB of DDR4 at this point?


I dont think that's too relevant as your IMC couldnt handle (most likely) 64GB or say 4000Mhz CL14 even if the kits were rated for it.


----------



## ObscureScience

This is pretty awesome.

















AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D im Test: Mit 3D-V-Cache und hoher Effizienz gegen Intel


Auf dieser Seite beschäftigen wir uns mit der Leistungsaufnahme des Ryzen 7 5800X3D. Wir prüfen zudem, wie effizient die CPU in Spielen ist und bilden dafür die Fps pro Watt ab.




www-pcgameshardware-de.translate.goog


----------



## Saiger0

ObscureScience said:


> This is pretty awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D im Test: Mit 3D-V-Cache und hoher Effizienz gegen Intel
> 
> 
> Auf dieser Seite beschäftigen wir uns mit der Leistungsaufnahme des Ryzen 7 5800X3D. Wir prüfen zudem, wie effizient die CPU in Spielen ist und bilden dafür die Fps pro Watt ab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www-pcgameshardware-de.translate.goog


Yea. You can also get even more efficiency by playing with CO together with PBO limits. My CPU now performs slightly better than stock while only drawing 95W max.


----------



## SpajdrEX

Saiger0 said:


> Yea. You can also get even more efficiency by playing with CO together with PBO limits. My CPU now performs slightly better than stock while only drawing 95W max.


Can you please tell me more details about what exact settings I should change (CO and PBO)?


----------



## Saiger0

SpajdrEX said:


> Can you please tell me more details about what exact settings I should change (CO and PBO)?


Once you confirmed that your CO settings (-30 in your case) are stable you can start lowering PPT, EDC and TDC (second tab in the tool) in 5-10 increments until you´ve reached your desired performance (or temperature) target. Just like normal PBO tuning.
On Stock I get 14400 points in cb23.
CO -30 i get around 15000 points.
CO -30 with PPT 95, TDC 60, EDC 90A, I get 14500 points with greatly reduced temps and power draw.


----------



## BNSoul

Saiger0 said:


> CO -30 with PPT 95, TDC 60, EDC 90A, I get 14500 points with greatly reduced temps and power draw.


I get around 15200 stock PBO / CO -30.
Tried 95-60-90 and got 14700-ish with a nice power save and contained temps, but my 1% in games was impacted by just 1 or 2 fps on average (might be room temp, new GPU drivers, background tasks, run to run variations...)

The thing is I bumped the two "best" cores to -25 (lazy tweak) and now I get 1-2 higher frames, I know it's just tiny details but just wanted to share. It's really impressive what this CPU can achieve with such limited power draw for a premium gaming chip.

I can totally see why some people cannot get 100% from this hardware if they're not using the PBO2 debug tool properly, some reviewers are even wondering why they're not getting the higher stats that dedicated gamers are posting online and it's just that they're running 100% stock. Can't wait for incoming AGESA revisions with power/performance optimizations and full fledged BIOS settings.


----------



## Saiger0

BNSoul said:


> I get around 15200 stock PBO / CO -30.
> Tried 95-60-90 and got 14700-ish with a nice power save and contained temps, but my 1% in games was impacted by just 1 or 2 fps on average (might be room temp, new GPU drivers, background tasks, run to run variations...)


Awesome. If you are happy with your settings you can also include the limits in windows task scheduler with the updated version of pbo tuner. So you dont have to manually re-apply them at startup.


----------



## ObscureScience

BNSoul said:


> The thing is I bumped the two "best" cores to -25 (lazy tweak) and now I get 1-2 higher frames


How do you know what your best cores are? Do you go by the preferred core number? I'm not really seeing much difference between the cores just eye balling their behavior at least.


----------



## BNSoul

ObscureScience said:


> How do you know what your best cores are? Do you go by the preferred core number? I'm not really seeing much difference between the cores just eye balling their behavior at least.


Yeah after installing and testing 20+ 5800X3D CPUs last week alone (gamers in Spain are crazy for this CPU) I've got the impression all cores are "good", the silicon lottery has blessed every chip I've seen so far, like the difference between one core being labeled as the best is just 1 less millivolt needed to reliably go from idle to 4550,02 - 4550,03 consistently.

I used to have a look at what Ryzen Master would reveal in this regard (you know it reports the two best cores in a 5800X3D), but nowadays I tend to validate what AMD signed into the firmware through the use of some custom tools, in this case different scenarios involving single core workloads.


----------



## ObscureScience

I tried to increase various cores to -25 but didn't seem to have any real affect. There is too much variation in c23 score to nail down such small details.

But I did try your suggestion of 95-60-90 and left them all at -30. Scored dropped to 14.6-14.7k, watt down to 85-86, temperature down 9-10c. Pretty good.
Single core seems to remain unaffected from just -30. Can we also agree cb23 st takes way too long just for a score?

And I have to say, the increase in WoW's fps from Zen2 was not understated, it really is massive.


----------



## Blameless

@Veii 

Have you had any issues getting x2apic mode working on your B550 Phantom Gaming ITX? No matter what combination of firmware or OS settings I use I cannot get x2apic correctly enabled. I always get MSR 0x1B reading FEE0 0900 when it should be FEE0 0D00.

I'm not sure if the the board, the newest firmware/AGESA, or something else at this point and though I'd ask before I go flashing everything to see if anything changes.


----------



## PJVol

Blameless said:


> No matter what combination of firmware or OS settings I use I cannot get x2apic correctly enabled


Are you sure it's supported comprehensively in a "client-type" OS? I mean CPU, drivers, BIOS, OS itself, each individually should have support it
There's also CPUID 0000_0001_EAX bit 21 - x2APIC capability
But AIDA says "it's not" :


----------



## spajdr

BNSoul said:


> I get around 15200 stock PBO / CO -30.
> Tried 95-60-90 and got 14700-ish with a nice power save and contained temps, but my 1% in games was impacted by just 1 or 2 fps on average (might be room temp, new GPU drivers, background tasks, run to run variations...)
> 
> The thing is I bumped the two "best" cores to -25 (lazy tweak) and now I get 1-2 higher frames, I know it's just tiny details but just wanted to share. It's really impressive what this CPU can achieve with such limited power draw for a premium gaming chip.
> 
> I can totally see why some people cannot get 100% from this hardware if they're not using the PBO2 debug tool properly, some reviewers are even wondering why they're not getting the higher stats that dedicated gamers are posting online and it's just that they're running 100% stock. Can't wait for incoming AGESA revisions with power/performance optimizations and full fledged BIOS settings.


Thanks, with stock PBO / All CO -30 I got 14700. I changed best two cores to -25 and now enjoying 15200 score.
I will try to play with PPT/TDC/EDC now.


----------



## bmagnien

spajdr said:


> Thanks, with stock PBO / All CO -30 I got 14700. I changed best two cores to -25 and now enjoying 15200 score.
> I will try to play with PPT/TDC/EDC now.


A 500 point boost by raising two cores by 5? That’s super impressive. How’d you determine best core? 0/1 and 1/1 in HWINFO? Please update with ppt/tdc/edc if you’re able to drop that without losing performance. Thanks!


----------



## Blameless

PJVol said:


> Are you sure it's supported comprehensively in a "client-type" OS? I mean CPU, drivers, BIOS, OS itself, each individually should have support it
> There's also CPUID 0000_0001_EAX bit 21 - x2APIC capability
> But AIDA says "it's not" :


It's supported and enabled (with the correct MSR registers) on my 3950X in my Aorus X570 Elite Wifi and my i7-5820K on a X99 SoC Champion, in Windows 10 Pro. All I needed to do for the former was enable IOMMU and x2apic in the BIOS, while the latter needed VT-d in the BIOS and x2apicpolicy enabled in Windows via BCD. I haven't checked my other AM4 systems yet, but it seems that even my X79 + 4930K box allows me to fully enable it in Windows 10.

This ASRock B550 board, even after enabling IOMMU in the UEFI/BIOS setup and forcing "Local APIC Mode" to x2apic via an NVRAM dump, is stuck on "supported, disabled".

Edit, from my 3950X setup:









Edit 2: checked Linux as well and it's also disabled there on my ASrock B550 + 5800X3D, despite all bios settings looking correct.

Edit 3: tested it with my 5800X on an older BIOS version on my other ASrock B550...same issue. Looks like a problem with ASRock's firmware implementation. Starting to regret getting a second one of these boards...not that there are many compelling alternatives.


----------



## bmagnien

Played around with the TDC/EDC/PPT options and wanted to add my data for the group. Was able to reduce to 114 PPT, 75 TDC, 115 EDC. I arrived at these numbers by using CPUZs stress bench and going as low as possible on each one until both actual and effective all core clocks no longer pegged to to 4450. I almost went too far with EDC (all the way down to 75) until I realized that even though clocks were at 4550, effective clocks were dropping heavily so it must've been clock stretching with the amps that low. With these reductions, I've saved 18W PPT (132>114), 11C temp (79c > 68c), and lost basically no performance. Still hitting 15k CB23 multi, 6555 CPUZ MT, 630 ST.


----------



## SpajdrEX

bmagnien said:


> A 500-point boost by raising two cores by 5? That’s super impressive. How’d you determine the best core? 0/1 and 1/1 in HWINFO? Please update with ppt/tdc/edc if you’re able to drop that without losing performance. Thanks!


I was surprised too  but today I was unpleasantly surprised because I can't get over 14800 with same settings, not sure how I did it yesterday.
Anyway, I leave it at 90/60/90 and its stable at 14800+


----------



## robertr1

Is this hidden for asus b550 owners? Strix -F II. I'm on bios 2803 and unable to find the option to set PPT/TDC/EDC anywhere in the bios.


----------



## MrHoof

robertr1 said:


> Is this hidden for asus b550 owners? Strix -F II. I'm on bios 2803 and unable to find the option to set PPT/TDC/EDC anywhere in the bios.


Debug.7z - Google Drive its a tool made by @PJVol
There are also newer versions that can also automatically on boot apply the settings but cant find the link right now.
Negative CO and negative PPT/EDC/TDC changes are possible with it.


----------



## robertr1

MrHoof said:


> Debug.7z - Google Drive its a tool made by @PJVol
> There are also newer versions that can also automatically on boot apply the settings but cant find the link right now.
> Negative CO and negative PPT/EDC/TDC changes are possible with it.


yep! Thanks been using the tool for a while for co but never thought to use it for power limits. Will play


----------



## robertr1

For whatever reason gaming (why i bought it) responds best with -30 CO all around and leaving the two power settings at stock.


----------



## Luggage

bmagnien said:


> Played around with the TDC/EDC/PPT options and wanted to add my data for the group. Was able to reduce to 114 PPT, 75 TDC, 115 EDC. I arrived at these numbers by using CPUZs stress bench and going as low as possible on each one until both actual and effective all core clocks no longer pegged to to 4450. I almost went too far with EDC (all the way down to 75) until I realized that even though clocks were at 4550, effective clocks were dropping heavily so it must've been clock stretching with the amps that low. With these reductions, I've saved 18W PPT (132>114), 11C temp (79c > 68c), and lost basically no performance. Still hitting 15k CB23 multi, 6555 CPUZ MT, 630 ST.


From 5800x testing cpu-z is very light on edc requirements, loves low limits and good thermals. Compared to other workloads it’s not very indicative of balanced limits.


----------



## BNSoul

Testing R23 MT with 114 - 75 - 115 limits and CO -30 all core, AGESA 1.2.0.7
Getting 100% from middle of the road X570 Aorus Elite, Dark Rock Pro 4 and 16-19-19 3600 dual rank kit.

15174 score, no throttling during quick test, temps at 78º C with warm room and hot PC after intensive testing, summer hitting Spain at full force definitely not helping either. Cores unwavering from 4450, power reporting is really close to 100%. However, I performed the same test on a loop later yesterday but the temps dropped a lot after a storm, 15176 avg 76ª C, didn't screenshot that tho because of the non-realistic conditions for this time of the year.











Bonus test: With an "old" RTX 2070 Super and a Zen 2 3800XT I remember running Ubisoft's "Immortals Fenyx Rising" 1440p 60fps ultra settings and finding some spots where the CPU usage would increase dramatically (40-50%) dropping fps to low 40s and high temps nearing 70ºC in cold wintertime. CPU power usage was around 70w. It could only be fixed by dropping from ultra settings to a mix of very high and high settings.

Well, with the same hardware but replacing the 3800XT with the 5800X3D I went straight away to the worst spot I had marked with a pin on the map... and it's night and day difference, the game runs silky smooth at rock solid 60 fps with perfect frame pacing, CPU usage dropped from that 40-50ish percent to just 14% (how??) and temps now in the summertime at just 47ºC and power nearing frugal 51 watts, *absolutely ridiculous*. The 5800X3D is such a gem. Running on average hardware getting 120% of everything in the PC, in this case allowing to play ultra settings rock-solid smoothly whereas it wasn't possible at all before.


----------



## colorfuel

BNSoul said:


> Testing R23 MT with 114 - 75 - 115 limits and CO -30 all core, AGESA 1.2.0.7
> Getting 100% from middle of the road X570 Aorus Elite, Dark Rock Pro 4 and 16-19-19 3600 dual rank kit.
> 
> 15174 score, no throttling during quick test, temps at 78º C with warm room and hot PC after intensive testing, summer hitting Spain at full force definitely not helping either. Cores unwavering from 4450, power reporting is really close to 100%. [...]


I'm a bit jealous here, at around 80°C it starts to throttle a bit to 4375Mhz AllCore in CB23. I repasted but just can't get those 2°C less. I wish my board allowed for real undervolting the vCore.


----------



## BNSoul

colorfuel said:


> I'm a bit jealous here, at around 80°C it starts to throttle a bit to 4375Mhz AllCore in CB23. I repasted but just can't get those 2°C less. I wish my board allowed for real undervolting the vCore.


Well it's just 2ºC, but in my case it can definitely improve as room temp goes down, that's why I'm keeping screen shots just to compare when late August - early September hits and temps drop to the floor. Which board and cooling solution are you using? I guess vCore tweaking + PBO2 tuning will be insane, it does not need the stock voltage at all to get full performance (is the first batch all golden samples?). AMD engineers know best but I wonder why they went with 142 - 95 - 140 and 1.3v.


----------



## colorfuel

I have an old Gigabyte X370 Gaming K7 and a Thermalright Macho to cool the CPU. 2°C actually make a difference, when its between 78 and 80°C. Since it seems to start throttling exactly there.


----------



## Katsutoshi

robertr1 said:


> yep! Thanks been using the tool for a while for co but never thought to use it for power limits. Will play


I have a ASUS B550M-PLUS and the only things I found was the PBO and PBO Scalar at Advanced Tab and AMD CBS/NBIO Common Options/XFR Enhancement.
Didn’t tested but there is three fields for PPT, TDC and EDC to set with Manual Settings.


----------



## ObscureScience

4450 on all cores? I didn't think that was possible? Are you overclocking blck?


----------



## Jabdah

Is there a new Version of PBOTuner2 avail ? ive got the one from 12.06.2022. But im having trouble with max MHz.... Batch is setting it to 500MHz.... Dunno why ...


----------



## BNSoul

ObscureScience said:


> 4450 on all cores? I didn't think that was possible? Are you overclocking blck?


I'm not doing any OC, Zen 3 5800X3D CPUs can actually boost all cores flatline until they hit a hard coded or user imposed limit, it goes to 4450 in multi-core workloads (and keeps that boost flatline, it's not floating) when there's no limit in place and stays there as long as there's a workload that justifies the power surge, if light or no workload is detected it can drop to 2880 - 3560 - 3600. Of course R23 is a heavy workload and all 8 cores go straight away and flatline to 4450, they will stay there until hitting a temperature limit (80º Celsius) and reduce speed by -25 -50 -75 etc until the core hits below 80º and immediately ramps back up to 4450 MHz.


----------



## ObscureScience

BNSoul said:


> I'm not doing any OC, Zen 3 5800X3D CPUs can actually boost all cores flatline until they hit a hard coded or user imposed limit, it goes to 4450 in multi-core workloads (and keeps that boost flatline, it's not floating) when there's no limit in place and stays there as long as there's a workload that justifies the power surge, if light or no workload is detected it can drop to 2880 - 3560 - 3600. Of course R23 is a heavy workload and all 8 cores go straight away and flatline to 4450, they will stay there until hitting a temperature limit (80º Celsius) and reduce speed by -25 -50 -75 etc until the core hits below 80º and immediately ramps back up to 4450 MHz.


Hmm you're right. And I am right at the edge so I get throttled, even with your power numbers but they hold a little bit longer.
I should not be beaten in temperature by someone in Spain 

But alas I can't open the window today, allergies are a *****.


----------



## ObscureScience

Saiger0 said:


> Awesome. If you are happy with your settings you can also include the limits in windows task scheduler with the updated version of pbo tuner. So you dont have to manually re-apply them at startup.


How do you include the power settings? I tried "-30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 95 60 90" but that didn't work.


----------



## PJVol

ObscureScience said:


> that didn't work.


The number of arguments should be either 8 or 12 in your case.
You missed the fmax limit at the end, pass 0 if you want to keep the default value:


> "-30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 95 60 90 0"


or for example (limit max boost to 4400)


> "-30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 95 60 90 4400"


----------



## BNSoul

So taking advantage of the chill weather ("chill" in terms of very early summertime) due to persistent storms I repeated the R23 test to check what would I score with a room temp of around 20º (computer had been turned off for 6 hours).

First thing was running HWInfo64, applying default values on PBO2 Tuner and a curve of -12 for best cores and -22 for the rest in order to do a quick run of Core Cycler on 8 different threads to make sure all cores would boost to 4550 first try, then I left it cool down for like 4 mins in order to check that clocks dropped to 2880 (I have C-States set to "Auto" in BIOS). 

Applied 114 - 75 - 115 and a curve of -30 all core, quick run of R23 and I got a score of 15.179 and a max temp of 75.6 ºC so it was better than the last test, but to be honest with a 8 ºC cooler room and a PC that had been left unused for some hours I only gained 5 points (meaning both last test and this test revealed the CPU was already running to the max the hardware can deliver with the tweaked power limits and voltage curve) and max temperature dropped from 78-ish to 75-ish which was expected in this scenario, showing that the Dark Rock Pro 4 with its original fans is hitting its performance ceiling too. 

The most important stat for me is power reporting deviation which ended up exactly at 101%, this makes me super happy because usually power limits would mess a bit with power delivery (weak motherboards, buggy BIOS, average CPU samples and so on...) but I think I got a good 5800X3D sample, good enough to not bother with water-cooling. Also, EDC limit hit 100% so there's room to play further here maybe increasing +5 or something, but honestly I prefer gaming over benchmarking.

Screenshot attached telling the abovementioned story. Have a nice night everyone.


----------



## BCB57

PJVol said:


> The number of arguments should be either 8 or 12 in your case.
> You missed the fmax limit at the end, pass 0 if you want to keep the default value:
> 
> or for example (limit max boost to 4400)


Thank you PJ Vol, for this info and for your incredibly useful app!


----------



## Nd4spdvn

BCB57 said:


> Thank you PJ Vol, for this info and for your incredibly useful app!


My thanks as well!


----------



## pfinch

whats the best way to test max boost on cores (ST, 4550mhz)?
Boosttester?


----------



## Nd4spdvn

pfinch said:


> whats the best way to test max boost on cores (ST, 4550mhz)?
> Boosttester?


Boosttester works very well in my case with a reasonably light load to maximize the boost.


----------



## pfinch

Nd4spdvn said:


> Boosttester works very well in my case with a reasonably light load to maximize the boost.


So i'm "safe" if i get with boosttester on each core 4550Mhz fmax with -30 while all other apps are closed?


----------



## Nd4spdvn

pfinch said:


> So i'm "safe" if i get with boosttester on each core 4550Mhz fmax with -30 while all other apps are closed?


Yup, check the effective clocks though in hwinfo64 for any stretching occurring. In my case at -30 or so CO I have like 4.541Ghz requested and 4.537Ghz effective, this difference is okay in my book...


----------



## bloot

MSI released a beta bios with undervolting options for the B550 Gaming Edge Wi-Fi, which is EXACTLY the same board as my Tomahawk except for an extra 1GB LAN port on mine vs a Wi-Fi module on the Edge. I mean, I started the thread on their forums asking for those features in april, and they've ignored a board that's basically the same they've realeased those features now. They must be joking or something.

I willl buy an Asus board this weekend for sure (that's what I was about to do before the X570 Unify beta bios appeared), I hope the B550-F Strix do have undervolting options for the 3D (I think every Asus board does). Sorry for the rant, I'm just tired of waiting for something that should have been there from the start to begin with.


----------



## lestatdk

MSI Has become a joke. I'm on my last MSI board for sure


----------



## Unifyx

hi there
there are some new Kombo Strike beta BIOS from MSI for the 5800X3D out







MSI Global English Forum


...




forum-en.msi.com










Kombo Strike Beta - Google Drive







drive.google.com


----------



## kaiserc

bloot said:


> MSI released a beta bios with undervolting options for the B550 Gaming Edge Wi-Fi, which is EXACTLY the same board as my Tomahawk except for an extra 1GB LAN port on mine vs a Wi-Fi module on the Edge. I mean, I started the thread on their forums asking for those features in april, and they've ignored a board that's basically the same they've realeased those features now. They must be joking or something.
> 
> I willl buy an Asus board this weekend for sure (that's what I was about to do before the X570 Unify beta bios appeared), I hope the B550-F Strix do have undervolting options for the 3D (I think every Asus board does). Sorry for the rant, I'm just tired of waiting for something that should have been there from the start to begin with.


MSI always start testing beta bios on 1 or 2 boards first. Be patient no other board manufacturer has this yet.


----------



## Luggage

bloot said:


> MSI released a beta bios with undervolting options for the B550 Gaming Edge Wi-Fi, which is EXACTLY the same board as my Tomahawk except for an extra 1GB LAN port on mine vs a Wi-Fi module on the Edge. I mean, I started the thread on their forums asking for those features in april, and they've ignored a board that's basically the same they've realeased those features now. They must be joking or something.
> 
> I willl buy an Asus board this weekend for sure (that's what I was about to do before the X570 Unify beta bios appeared), I hope the B550-F Strix do have undervolting options for the 3D (I think every Asus board does). Sorry for the rant, I'm just tired of waiting for something that should have been there from the start to begin with.


Ask in the ASUS threads first, following several manufacturers threads here I would assume nothing about greener grass from anyone without confirmation.


----------



## Gregix

Hi.
I just tried it, damn this is horror.
Due MSI Torpedo mostly, what a crap. Any move with bus above damn 100.8 results hard lock. Clear cmos. And fkn bios do not hold OC profiles (while z390 gaming ac DID that) so I must OC and profile on USB stick.

Trying now OC mems, got f4 3200c14 and they was running 8086/9900kf 3800c14 with ease, I have em now at 1933x2 16 18 18 36 1,45Vdimm but do not know which voltages RAM wise to touch.
OFC I do not know yet this above is stable...
Damn, another neat feature this x570s has is BLCK OC disables one of my SSDs...even just 100.65Mhz


----------



## TrigrH

Unifyx said:


> hi there
> there are some new Kombo Strike beta BIOS from MSI for the 5800X3D out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MSI Global English Forum
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forum-en.msi.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kombo Strike Beta - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


Just tested the bios. Kombo Strike is CO

1 = -10
2 = -20
3 = -30


----------



## paih85

TrigrH said:


> Just tested the bios. Kombo Strike is CO
> 
> 1 = -10
> 2 = -20
> 3 = -30


hurmmm.. still no boost override.


----------



## spajdr

PJVol said:


> The number of arguments should be either 8 or 12 in your case.
> You missed the fmax limit at the end, pass 0 if you want to keep the default value:
> 
> or for example (limit max boost to 4400)


Does not work unfortunately, task is never finished and it keeps running.


----------



## PJVol

spajdr said:


> Does not work unfortunately


Run your command manually from the powershell and check if app closes itself.
Check also ".exe" file date - it should be 12.06.22


----------



## Gregix

Ok now I like this CPU.
Like, I run it with that PBO2 tuner -10 only and it has 51-61C degree while gaming, eating max 55w whole package(core +soc), CPU only eats like 25-28W while gaming(as I remember from yesterdays FF14 sesion) while having better performance than heavily tuned [email protected] with 4200c16 or 4300c16 memory(and this gaming wise was like 60W-90W CPU power area).
Only nuisance is, I always tend to OC, but now cannot  due ****ty MB and fact of having SSDs.
All core boosts 4450 and one 4550. 
Only thing now to do is tune to perfection RAM settings, just in case.


----------



## AXi0M

I've noticed some weird behavior in regards to FCLK stability and WHEA errors in my case. I have 1933Mhz IF stable on my system fairly easily, but every now and then i turn on my pc and get tones of WHEA errors even with setting that passed hours of tests without any. when this happens if i shut down the PC and cycle my power supply and turn back on boom no more WHEA errors even with out changing any settings. very strange....


----------



## ObscureScience

PJVol said:


> The number of arguments should be either 8 or 12 in your case.
> You missed the fmax limit at the end, pass 0 if you want to keep the default value:
> 
> or for example (limit max boost to 4400)


Didn't seem to work either:









If I open pbo2 tuner after booting its show everything at default.


----------



## BCB57

ObscureScience said:


> Didn't seem to work either:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I open pbo2 tuner after booting its show everything at default.


Was having the same issue, but earlier today I figured out you need to use an updated (as of 6/12/22) version of the tool. Here's a link to the download: Debug-cli.7z

The Task Scheduler syntax described above now works for CO and PPT/TDC/EDC values (I entered "0" for max boost, as I have no desire to reduce that).


----------



## BCB57

Using the current (non beta) MSI Agesa 1.2.0.7 BIOS with the updated PBO2 Tuner app, I'm very happy with results of these settings:

-- BIOS: C-States = AUTO, CPPC = Enabled, CPPC Preferred Cores = Disabled, Power Supply Idle Control = Low Current Idle, DRAM (2x16 G.Skill Trident Z NEO 3600/CL16 Hynix kit OC'd to 3733/1867 @ 1.37 Volts per DRAM calculator), all other BIOS settings at Auto/Default.

-- PBO2 Tuner: -30 on 5 cores, -25 on my two best and -28 on one other as required for stability, PPT 85 / TDC 65 / EDC 105.

These benchmark results were obtained today with the above settings, and are with no more than 1.5% down from my all-time best scores for each test. The Firestrike Extreme result (23,699 overall) is actually the best score I've achieved for that test. Best of all, temps are LOW... typically in 50s an 60s now during gaming (MSFS 2020 at 1440p ultrawide ultra/high settings), and never above the low 70s. Here are the screenshots:


----------



## spajdr

PJVol said:


> Run your command manually from the powershell and check if app closes itself.
> Check also ".exe" file date - it should be 12.06.22


Thanks, old version was the issue, now it works


----------



## Gregix

Ok I managed to have all cores (in st) boosts to 4550, not only one or two. Dunno what switch in bios did that thou.
Big question now is...
I'm on old w11(and previous w10) install, and I just hate to install all back again...I did switch from intel, just put mb/cpu/ram and connected all, set boot priority, windows worked, installed chipset drivers, removed intel drivers, intel entries in reg, ACTIVATED w11 again...

Should I do fresh install anyway?
Everything runs smooth. Games I see boost, no stutter, bsods whatever. Benchmarks I tried some, is better than previous. And fkn energy efficiency...like half or 1/3 power of 9900kf, especially while gaming, gaming is like 25%.

Edit: Just in case, what is best to use for WHEA errors? I mean I do not see any right now(mem at 3933/1967?


----------



## Fight Game

The Ryzen 7 5800X3D CPU gets a delid for improved temperatures | TechSpot


----------



## superkyle1721

Hey guys got my 5800x3d on Friday and spent the weekend testing and playing conspired to my 5950x. Reading through the forum it seems many are posting CBR23 scores in the Mid 14K stock and 15k plus with CO. I’m running the dark hero board and all stock I am getting low 13k and with CO at -30 and tweaking bios settings as they should be with my 3800cl14 ram I can get a max of 14600. It’s driving me mad. It’s funny that I can fully optimize a 5950x but a simple chip like this is kicking my butt! Any advice on why the score is so low? I’ve run out of ideas!
Extra information: chip is boosting solid to 44.5 the entire run. I’ve never seen it hit 45.5 as it should.


----------



## Fight Game

temps?


----------



## frankie90

superkyle1721 said:


> Hey guys got my 5800x3d on Friday and spent the weekend testing and playing conspired to my 5950x. Reading through the forum it seems many are posting CBR23 scores in the Mid 14K stock and 15k plus with CO. I’m running the dark hero board and all stock I am getting low 13k and with CO at -30 and tweaking bios settings as they should be with my 3800cl14 ram I can get a max of 14600. It’s driving me mad. It’s funny that I can fully optimize a 5950x but a simple chip like this is kicking my butt! Any advice on why the score is so low? I’ve run out of ideas!
> Extra information: chip is boosting solid to 44.5 the entire run. I’ve never seen it hit 45.5 as it should.


Unfortunately, I have the same experience as you with my Asus X570-I board. About 13.6-13.8 without CO, and 14.7-14.8 with. I do get 2-4 cores that hit 4.5 for a split second. I tried doing a fresh Windows install, which made no improvement. I’m running 1900 IF/3800 RAM, with some tightened timings. I just can’t figure it out.

My temps max out about 75-80c in Cinebench, and around 60-70c in game.


----------



## superkyle1721

Fight Game said:


> temps?


I’m on a custom loop with triple rads. With CO I’m around 60 and without mid to high 70s. Never seen it above 81 I believe.


----------



## superkyle1721

frankie90 said:


> Unfortunately, I have the same experience as you with my Asus X570-I board. About 13.6-13.8 without CO, and 14.7-14.8 with. I do get 2-4 cores that hit 4.5 for a split second. I tried doing a fresh Windows install, which made no improvement. I’m running 1900 IF/3800 RAM, with some tightened timings. I just can’t figure it out.
> 
> My temps max out about 75-80c in Cinebench, and around 60-70c in game.


Yeah there has to be a setting that is causing it that is defaulted on or something. I’ve tried installing a fresh bios via flashback and a removal and reinstall of all AMD drivers and have never seen 4.5 or 14K without CO at -30


----------



## OCmember

@Gregix Do you mean what's the best to use for WHEA observations? I personally use Event Viewer with a custom view I created named WHEA errors.


----------



## BCB57

superkyle1721 said:


> Yeah there has to be a setting that is causing it that is defaulted on or something. I’ve tried installing a fresh bios via flashback and a removal and reinstall of all AMD drivers and have never seen 4.5 or 14K without CO at -30


Recommend you try lowering the CO offset on your best two cores from -30 to somewhere in the range of -20 to -25. This may improve your performance somewhat.

Then try different Global C-States, CPPC and CPPC Preferred Cores settings, as some users have reported significant differences in performance. Personally I've found C-States Enabled, CPPC Auto and CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled to work as well or better than any other permutation.

Finally, see if your BIOS has a setting for LCLK "Dynamic Power Management" (DPM) and if so, turn that OFF. I tried enabling it in my MSI BIOS and that caused a major performance hit. Good luck!


----------



## superkyle1721

BCB57 said:


> Recommend you try lowering the CO offset on your best two cores from -30 to somewhere in the range of -20 to -25. This may improve your performance somewhat.
> 
> Then try different Global C-States, CPPC and CPPC Preferred Cores settings, as some users have reported significant differences in performance. Personally I've found C-States Enabled, CPPC Auto and CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled to work as well or better than any other permutation.
> 
> Finally, see if your BIOS has a setting for LCLK "Dynamic Power Management" (DPM) and if so, turn that OFF. I tried enabling it in my MSI BIOS and that caused a major performance hit. Good luck!


Thanks for the recommendations. I have played with the CO quite a bit to find the best scores. I've found I don't gain or lose any CB score from like -20 onward but do see a small drop in temp. 

I am not sure about the LCLK power management I will check that out for sure. All else fails I will try to start over with a fresh copy of windows and bios once more. Ive seen earlier in this forum that new windows install did solve the issue for a few others.


----------



## frankie90

That is interesting, as I played around with CO a bunch too, and found that -20 gave me the best scores! -25 didn’t do anything, and -30 dropped my scores into the low 14k area. Additionally, I use the PPT values of 114/75/115 as others, and found that helps my temps without hurting my scores more than 100 points at the most.

I personally tried a new BIOS flash and Windows install which didn’t help my scores at all. I will also take a look for those BIOS settings and try those out next!


----------



## Audioboxer

MSI BIOS files that allow overclocking the 5800X3D at a BIOS level



> 7C92 MPG B550I GAMING EDGE WIFI
> 7C92 MPG B550I GAMING EDGE MAX WIFI
> 7C91 MPG B550 GAMING EDGE WIFI
> 7D13 MEG B550 UNIFY-X
> 7D13 MEG B550 UNIFY








Kombo Strike Beta - Google Drive







drive.google.com





X570 is also out https://www.tomshardware.com/news/msi-x570-beta-bios-enables-ryzen-7-5800x3d-tweaking


----------



## BNSoul

anyone tried the new X570 chipset drivers posted today on AMD X570 chipset support website? how's performance with these?

AMD X570 4.06.10.651 June, 27th


----------



## freestaler

Someone imtrested for delidding look at De-lidded AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D Has Vastly Improved Thermals

Maybe someone has more information or time to do that?


----------



## Gregix

up
pointless.
Guys, I have situation, while testing TM5e extreme anta my VSOC in zentimings shows jump from auto 1.0813 up to 1.55v.
At the moment I am at finding proper timings values at 3800/1900 ram/fclk area cl14, and CPU is getting hot at this, 73 degree now.
eh...another error, gtg to find what caused it.


----------



## superkyle1721

Finished a fresh install of windows and now the chip will boost normally and CB scores have risen to above 15k after CO. I wonder what leftover driver crumbles was causing the issue… I did not want to have to do a clean install but at least now it’s behaving as it should!

next step is to figure out why bclk overclock is not happy with anything over 101 and even at 101 is hangs on boot for a while then finally decides to move forward. Anything greater than 101 gives a 07 error unless I set all the pcie devices to Gen 3. Doing that allows for up to 102 but very slow to boot. Is this normal and you guys just set the BCLK clock after boot via software? It’s been several generations of CPU since I needed to mess with bclk so I’m trying to relearn the ins and outs


----------



## BCB57

BNSoul said:


> anyone tried the new X570 chipset drivers posted today on AMD X570 chipset support website? how's performance with these?
> 
> AMD X570 4.06.10.651 June, 27th


I installed tonight and there's no apparent difference.


----------



## frankie90

superkyle1721 said:


> Finished a fresh install of windows and now the chip will boost normally and CB scores have risen to above 15k after CO. I wonder what leftover driver crumbles was causing the issue… I did not want to have to do a clean install but at least now it’s behaving as it should!
> 
> next step is to figure out why bclk overclock is not happy with anything over 101 and even at 101 is hangs on boot for a while then finally decides to move forward. Anything greater than 101 gives a 07 error unless I set all the pcie devices to Gen 3. Doing that allows for up to 102 but very slow to boot. Is this normal and you guys just set the BCLK clock after boot via software? It’s been several generations of CPU since I needed to mess with bclk so I’m trying to relearn the ins and outs


Dang, well I’m an idiot. I installed all my drivers before I ran CB. Now I’m thinking it’s one of these drivers that’s messing with my scores!


----------



## BNSoul

BCB57 said:


> I installed tonight and there's no apparent difference.


I installed them too and got additional gains, room temperature is more or less the same since last time I tested, maybe a little warmer, but with these drivers I think the CPU switches a bit faster to non-performance and idle states, it runs a bit cooler. *No bclk overclock here*, just using *PBO2 *Tuner btw. The thing is I got *5903 R20* and *15288 R23*, I thought I had maxed out R23 considering my motherboard and RAM but the new drivers got me some more points, or maybe it's all placebo. First thing before R20 and R23 was running the 7-zip bench and I scored a bit higher than the best I got with the "old" drivers, temps were alright just reaching 70º Celsius (I remember I used to hit 73+ with old drivers) so the CPU never throttled. What I did notice is that the current version of HWInfo runs at 0.4 - 0.6% CPU so I turned it off for Cinebench benchmarks, guess it reached around 73-75 ºC and thus there was no throttling either.

Screenshots:































On top of this, I tested Horizon Zero Dawn (which at the gfx settings I use it's always at 100% GPU usage) and I gained some frames compared to "old" chipset drivers, even if the benchmark runs pegged at 100% GPU, idk where the CPU is finding extra frames from to be honest since the GPU is at 100% from frame 1 to last frame of the benchmark. With my 3XXX GPUs I don't usually notice these details, it's like the 5800X3D is pushing mid-rangers beyond their limits, had the same thing happen with Immortals Fenyx Rising, AC Odyssey and Watch Dogs Legion.

"old" drivers:











drivers released today:


----------



## RedF

superkyle1721 said:


> Finished a fresh install of windows and now the chip will boost normally and CB scores have risen to above 15k after CO. I wonder what leftover driver crumbles was causing the issue… I did not want to have to do a clean install but at least now it’s behaving as it should!
> 
> next step is to figure out why bclk overclock is not happy with anything over 101 and even at 101 is hangs on boot for a while then finally decides to move forward. Anything greater than 101 gives a 07 error unless I set all the pcie devices to Gen 3. Doing that allows for up to 102 but very slow to boot. Is this normal and you guys just set the BCLK clock after boot via software? It’s been several generations of CPU since I needed to mess with bclk so I’m trying to relearn the ins and outs


Sata drives?


----------



## edhutner

Hi guys,
I recently received 5800x3d. So far I have noticed that it would do some WHEA errors (even at idle or light load) when I set my memory to ddr 3800. I have been running ddr 3800 with some moderate/tight timings on my previous 5900x, with only touching the ddr voltage. But 5800x3d seems that will need some more tweaking. Below are voltages at auto when I do 1900 IF.
VDIMM: 1.43 manual
VSOC: 1.0875 auto
CLDO VDDP: 1.0979 auto
VDDG CCD: 0.9976 auto
VDDG IOD: 0.9976 auto

Any suggestions to play with?


----------



## superkyle1721

RedF said:


> Sata drives?


I have one sata ssd. I’ll try removing it and see if it changes things. Thanks for pointing that out


----------



## BCB57

edhutner said:


> Hi guys,
> I recently received 5800x3d. So far I have noticed that it would do some WHEA errors (even at idle or light load) when I set my memory to ddr 3800. I have been running ddr 3800 with some moderate/tight timings on my previous 5900x, with only touching the ddr voltage. But 5800x3d seems that will need some more tweaking. Below are voltages at auto when I do 1900 IF.
> VDIMM: 1.43 manual
> VSOC: 1.0875 auto
> CLDO VDDP: 1.0979 auto
> VDDG CCD: 0.9976 auto
> VDDG IOD: 0.9976 auto
> 
> Any suggestions to play with?


We have the same motherboard and DRAM kit, so feel pretty confident advising you to download the "DRAM Calculator for Ryzen" v1.7.3 and follow its recommendations for "FAST" 3800. "Expert" RAM overclockers tend to dismiss this tool, but it's worked very well for me. DRAM Calculator for Ryzen (v1.7.3) Download

For the fields in upper left of the screen, select ZEN 2 AM4 (this is an older program and there is no ZEN 3 option), Memory Type "Hynix CJR/DJR," DRAM PCB "A3/A2/B2" and Memory Rank "2." The rest are obvious. You'll need to enter all the timings, sub-timings, voltages and other settings per the chart. They are almost all available under "Advanced DRAM Settings" in your BIOS. Depending on BIOS version, you may came across a couple settings that are in BIOS but not in the calculator, or vice versa; just skip those or leave them on "auto." On my system, I've found that the "Min" voltages are stable. If not, use the "Rec" settings. For VDIMM you'll be running 1.39 or 1.40. Just be careful entering all the numbers, as the fields in the BIOS are not all in the same order as the Calculator page.

I've had my RAM at 3800/1900 FCLK=MEMCLK both with previous 5600X and current 5800X3D, and it runs fine with no errors. I recently backed it off to 3733/1867 because I could lower VDIMM and other voltages a bit. No noticeable performance difference. Good luck!


----------



## RedF

superkyle1721 said:


> I have one sata ssd. I’ll try removing it and see if it changes things. Thanks for pointing that out


Without my Sata drive i can go up to 105 BCLK. With Sata only to 100,8.


----------



## BCB57

BNSoul said:


> I installed them too and got additional gains, room temperature is more or less the same since last time I tested, maybe a little warmer, but with these drivers I think the CPU switches a bit faster to non-performance and idle states, it runs a bit cooler. *No bclk overclock here*, just using *PBO2 *Tuner btw. The thing is I got *5903 R20* and *15288 R23*, I thought I had maxed out R23 considering my motherboard and RAM but the new drivers got me some more points, or maybe it's all placebo. First thing before R20 and R23 was running the 7-zip bench and I scored a bit higher than the best I got with the "old" drivers, temps were alright just reaching 70º Celsius (I remember I used to hit 73+ with old drivers) so the CPU never throttled. What I did notice is that the current version of HWInfo runs at 0.4 - 0.6% CPU so I turned it off for Cinebench benchmarks, guess it reached around 73-75 ºC and thus there was no throttling either.
> 
> 
> Screenshots:
> 
> View attachment 2565370
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2565371
> 
> 
> View attachment 2565372
> 
> 
> 
> On top of this, I tested Horizon Zero Dawn (which at the gfx settings I use it's always at 100% GPU usage) and I gained some frames compared to "old" chipset drivers, even if the benchmark runs pegged at 100% GPU, idk where the CPU is finding extra frames from to be honest since the GPU is at 100% from frame 1 to last frame of the benchmark. With my 3XXX GPUs I don't usually notice these details, it's like the 5800X3D is pushing mid-rangers beyond their limits, had the same thing happen with Immortals Fenyx Rising, AC Odyssey and Watch Dogs Legion.
> 
> "old" drivers:
> 
> View attachment 2565374
> 
> 
> 
> drivers released today:
> 
> View attachment 2565375


Those are excellent results! Will mess around with my power settings a bit more, but your motherboard and cooling will probably keep those Cinebench scores out of reach.


----------



## MrHoof

edhutner said:


> Hi guys,
> I recently received 5800x3d. So far I have noticed that it would do some WHEA errors (even at idle or light load) when I set my memory to ddr 3800. I have been running ddr 3800 with some moderate/tight timings on my previous 5900x, with only touching the ddr voltage. But 5800x3d seems that will need some more tweaking. Below are voltages at auto when I do 1900 IF.
> VDIMM: 1.43 manual
> VSOC: 1.0875 auto
> CLDO VDDP: 1.0979 auto
> VDDG CCD: 0.9976 auto
> VDDG IOD: 0.9976 auto
> 
> Any suggestions to play with?


Those VDDG´s look like agesa 1.2.0.6b with the voltage lock of 1v. Its probably your VDDG IOD being to low Auto at 3800 should be 1.05v wich is not possible on this agesa.
Update to 1.2.0.7 and see if behavior with higher IOD changes, also you can drop VDDP mostly to 0.9v-0.95v.


----------



## edhutner

@BCB57, @MrHoof thanks.
I am on agesa 1.2.0.7 (MSI x570 unify bios AD3)


----------



## Blameless

Contacted ASRock last week to help with my x2apic issue and they made an L2.32 beta firmware for my ASRock B550 that exposes the setting I needed. So, I've finally got x2apic working correctly in Windows, plus the full stack of virtualization and PCI-e passthrough options seemingly working. Haven't checked the actual IOMMU groups though.

I also discovered that the 5800X3D will boot fine with AGESA at least as old as 1.1.0.0, which I needed to revert to in order to use Flashrom to erase my ROM chip and start from scratch after I corrupted things pretty badly testing more aggressive memory settings. Wasn't sure it would POST correctly or work well enough to allow Flashrom to function, but it did, which is fortunate since swapping the CPU would have been annoying.



MrHoof said:


> Those VDDG´s look like agesa 1.2.0.6b with the voltage lock of 1v.


This doesn't seem to be a limit with the AGESA version itself, but a common issue with firmware using newer versions where the settings displayed in the UEFI setup point to the wrong token/offset.

On the beta firmware I'm using on this ASRock board the setup options only adjust "VDDG CCD/IOD Voltage Control", when the firmware actually reads and applies "_Global_ VDDG CCD/IOD Voltage Control", which is only revealed in NVRAM dumps.


----------



## PJVol

Blameless said:


> Contacted ASRock last week to help with my x2apic issue and they made an L2.32 beta firmware for my ASRock B550 that exposes the setting I needed.


That's what I meant by saying I like them, when they sent me L bios with unlocked boost override (which could very well be the only such build)

It also seems strange how little info is around regarding 5800x3d, 5600 and 5700x support with an older agesa versions (<1.2.0.6bc)


----------



## superkyle1721

RedF said:


> Without my Sata drive i can go up to 105 BCLK. With Sata only to 100,8.


Pulled the sata drive. Now allows me to go up to 102.5 so certainly an improvement. Anything higher and I get the same 07 error or other random errors. Scoring in the 15.5K range now so that’s nice!


----------



## IamVoo

I just upgraded to the 1.2.0.7 bios on my Asus x570 Tuf Gaming Plus and noticing slightly lower scores with slightly higher voltages. I upgraded from the previous newest bios. Been out of the loop recently after I got settled with my 5800x3D a month ago so I'm not sure if this is normal behavior or not on 1.2.0.7. Not currently using PBO Tuner, I will once I'm sure everything is running properly. I was just wondering if anyone else had noticed higher VID and temps on the newest bios. Im seeing vid hit 1.3 and I dont recall ever seeing it hit that on the previous bios. Maybe it's nothing to worry about but something feels off.

I feel like the cpu is requesting more voltage more regularly now. Like the resting VID is only dropping down to .981 when i remember it being much lower and anything that causes usage it jumps to 1.231v. Like I've had hwinfo open for 15 mins and the averagec cpu core voltage is 1.229, while doing nothing but typing. Nothing is running in background or eating up cpu cycles outside of hwinfo at default polling speed. the absolute minimum VID hwinfo shows is .950 over 20 mins of usuage. I swear I remember it dropping lower than that during low/no usage. CPU core VID(effective) is 1.238 while doing what I previously stated, barely anything. Maybe I'm misremembering but I dont feel like I am. Show's CPU package power currently averaging near 30w, again doing nothing but typing and almost zero cpu usage. I know xmp enabled/memory oc will typically cause a 10ishw increase in idle power consumption but I remember those numbers being like 22-23w, not near 30.

Anyone else notice anything similar? If it's fundamental changes that improve the experience and make it snappier or more performant I'm fine with it, but I wanna make sure it's not just throwing excess juice at the cpu for no reason.


----------



## Blameless

For those pushing base clock who appear to be limited by off-chip devices, can you check if the PCIe SRIS setting offers any improvement?


----------



## 1ah1

MSI's 'Kombo Strike' Feature Boosts the Ryzen 7 5800X3D's Performance


----------



## BNSoul

IamVoo said:


> .981 when i remember it being much lower and anything that causes usage it jumps to 1.231v.


That's messed up. What settings are you using for global c-states?

I've been on 1.2.0.7 Aorus X570 Elite since day one (bought this CPU one month ago or so) and with global c-states on Auto the 5800X3D voltage is 0.192 and even lower when idle, with clocks dropping to 2880MHz (effective speed actually being ridiculous low). Performance is great with Cinebench R23 at 15288, 7-Zip 101/ 120, CPUZ 630/ 6550 and temps no matter what bench are staying under 74-75 ºC. This just on air (dark rock pro 4). You can see my post above and check the screenshots, they show voltage at idle too, but I've seen even lower than that using Ryzen Master (which I don't like at all).

So either your BIOS itself is busted or it needs a full reset, maybe some optimization too. I would suggest you to go back to previous AGESA until you figure what's going on.

Good luck.


----------



## superkyle1721

Blameless said:


> For those pushing base clock who appear to be limited by off-chip devices, can you check if the PCIe SRIS setting offers any improvement?


Gave it a try and both enabled and disabled did not yield any additional headroom. I think I’m personally limited by my usb devices or my 3090 though. I hang at code 64 before ultimately getting a different error code d6 or 9E


----------



## BNSoul

> https://www.tomshardware.com/news/m...com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow


Are they actually pushing the clocks beyond stock or just some tweaks involving a mix of CO, PBO2 and vcore offsets?


----------



## spcysls

“Kombo Strike’ is curve optimizer. Setting it to 1 is equivalent to -10, 2 is -20, and 3 is -30.


----------



## spcysls

This new msi beta bios seems to have fixed something regarding stability bc no matter what I set my fclk freq/voltage before, the ‘MP5_busy’ value would start up around 50 and gradually increase with windows run time to over 100 if left on for over a day and now its sitting at ‘36’ at 1933 fclk without budging.


----------



## DespairDontCare

Hey guys, do tweaking pbo on 5800x3d actually give more fps or that only for better temperatures?


----------



## RedF

DespairDontCare said:


> Hey guys, do tweaking pbo on 5800x3d actually give more fps or that only for better temperatures?


Only CO and partial V-Core means less heat so no throttling at 76°C.
The clock with BCLK.


----------



## IamVoo

BNSoul said:


> That's messed up. What settings are you using for global c-states?


mostly stock outside of XMP, fast boot off and a few other things that wouldnt affect the cpu. I am on windows 11 for the first time but I don't think that should matter. My temps are still nothing to worry about, it's just VID and core voltage never seem to drop below .950v. Maybe asus changed how power settings are defaulted to with this newest bios? C-states are on auto and power plan is the default "balanced" under w11


----------



## edhutner

Anybody noticed the new metric in hwinfo64 - Thermal Limit percentage? What values should be normally expected?
For example during cinebench 23 - temperature is 76C and thermal limit is 84%.
While gaming (Assetto Corsa Competizione) - cpu is at 66C, thermal limit is 72%.
And this metric never goes very low even when idling - stays at about 40%

edit: I got response from Marin in hwinfo forums. 


> this shows how far from the thermal limit the CPU currently is. So for example if the thermal limit is 100 C and the current temperature is 70 C, it will show 70%.


Initially I thought that this metric shows what percentage of time I am thermally limited, and I have a problem. But I have been wrong.


----------



## Teussi

I must been doing something wrong because i dont see any difference in CPU temp, cb23 scores and power draw when comparing: -30 CO vs -30 CO and PPT 114, TDC 75 EDC 120A 
Hwinfo shows difference in CPU PPT, TDC and EDC limit % so something is happening. Any advice? Using v2 version of PBO2 tuner with task schedule auto startup.


----------



## RedF

edhutner said:


> Anybody noticed the new metric in hwinfo64 - Thermal Limit percentage? What values should be normally expected?
> For example during cinebench 23 - temperature is 76C and thermal limit is 84%.
> While gaming (Assetto Corsa Competizione) - cpu is at 66C, thermal limit is 72%.
> And this metric never goes very low even when idling - stays at about 40%
> 
> edit: I got response from Marin in hwinfo forums.
> 
> 
> Initially I thought that this metric shows what percentage of time I am thermally limited, and I have a problem. But I have been wrong.


If u have a idle Temp of ~36°C 40% fits to 90°C=100%


----------



## slayer6288

spcysls said:


> This new msi beta bios seems to have fixed something regarding stability bc no matter what I set my fclk freq/voltage before, the ‘MP5_busy’ value would start up around 50 and gradually increase with windows run time to over 100 if left on for over a day and now its sitting at ‘36’ at 1933 fclk without budging.


what are you even talking about? wth is mp5 busy


----------



## PJVol

slayer6288 said:


> wth is mp5 busy


Hidden hardware to brainwash its owner and influence the 2024 elections.


----------



## BNSoul

IamVoo said:


> it's just VID and core voltage never seem to drop below .950v.


That's not reasonable at all for an idle state, it should be as low as .192v so if you did double check for rogue background processes then I guess it's time to reinstall everything afresh and/or to roll back (unless there's an updated version) the BIOS. Also, have you discussed your findings with other users running similar hardware?


----------



## IamVoo

BNSoul said:


> That's not reasonable at all for an idle state, it should be as low as .192v so if you did double check for rogue background processes then I guess it's time to reinstall everything afresh and/or to roll back (unless there's an updated version) the BIOS. Also, have you discussed your findings with other users running similar hardware?


I changed c-states from auto to enabled and nothing changed, minimum is still .950v










hwinfo running for 20 mins you can see it never drops below .950

temps aren't an issue, I have a 360 ek aio but that doesnt change the odd behavior. Everything runs good but I don't know how to get the voltage to drop lower. I'd rather not do another fresh install, recently did a fresh install to windows 11 a month ago. Guess I should investigate if others have the same issue on this specific board. Thought it might have just been a 1.2.0.7 issue.


----------



## BNSoul

IamVoo said:


> Screenshot


Thanks for the screenshot of your system behavior, maybe it's a bug with regard to sensor/software readings, the temps you're getting are just a tiny bit off from what I'm experiencing with an idle 5800X3D (2880 with minimal effective speed), I'm on 1.2.0.7 in hot summer weather in southern Spain of all places and my CPU idles at 31-32 ºC with just a Dark Rock Pro 4, always below 74º at full load since the chipset drivers update, it used to be 77º. When I get my holidays I'll be probably testing water cooling.

Also, could you share a screenshot with your CPU under full load running R23? What temps, voltages and effective clocks are you hitting?

Have a nice day 👍

edit: for reference, here's a screenshot of my 1.2.0.7 5800X3D after a boot first thing in the morning, stock everything with no PBO2 applied, took the screenshot after the automatic W11 updates were over 15-20 seconds after the login screen (which for some reason usually make most cores boost to 5500 in quick succession). You can see my idle temp and voltages.


----------



## IamVoo

BNSoul said:


> Also, could you share a screenshot with your CPU under full load running R23? What temps, voltages and effective clocks are you hitting?





















stock, no pbo tuner, xmp enabled.

Also I just updated to the newest chipset driver from 3 days ago, was running the previous release prior. If you notice my minimum vid now is sometimes dropping to what you stated but very, very rarely. Also despite it saying that the cpu core voltage is still behaving the same from what I can see.

Also are you sure you dont have PBO tuner applied in that image? your voltage never spiked above 1.17v in 8 mins of usage and from my previous experience that's around what a near -30 all core in PBO tuner does.


----------



## BNSoul

IamVoo said:


> Also I just updated to the newest chipset driver from 3 days ago, was running the previous release prior. If you notice my minimum vid now is sometimes dropping to what you stated but very, very rarely. Also despite it saying that the cpu core voltage is still behaving the same from what I can see.
> 
> Also are you sure you dont have PBO tuner applied in that image? your voltage never spiked above 1.17v in 8 mins of usage and from my previous experience that's around what a near -30 all core in PBO tuner does.


Your R23 at stock score is great and now the CPU is starting to drop to normal idle vcore, maybe you should double-check for background processes? Also let me tell you for most ppl the latest builds of HWInfo are using higher CPU% than previous builds. 

As for the 1.17 comment I just checked and I have the PBO2 task in task scheduler disabled, so it shouldn't be that. I just launched the tool and it reported that the system is using stock values 142-95-140 with no CO in place, let me delete the task and try again. I didn't notice anything different in the temps though.


----------



## Fight Game

PJVol said:


> Hidden hardware to brainwash its owner and influence the 2024 elections.


I knew it. Thanks for confirming.


----------



## domdtxdissar

Maybe i need to buy me a other 3d chip just to play with 😇









AMD to Reveal Ryzen 5 5600X3D and Ryzen 9 5900X3D with up to 200MB of Cache (128MB 3D Stacked) Next Month? | Hardware Times


A while back, it was reported that AMD might launch additional Zen 3 SKUs leveraging the 3D V-Cache technology. It would seem that that rumor is indeed true. Well-reputed tipster @Greymon55 has stated that there will be “several new products” headed to the Zen 3D family next month. There’s no...




www.hardwaretimes.com






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541710124535885824


----------



## Sparrow1408

domdtxdissar said:


> Maybe i need to buy me a other 3d chip just to play with 😇
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD to Reveal Ryzen 5 5600X3D and Ryzen 9 5900X3D with up to 200MB of Cache (128MB 3D Stacked) Next Month? | Hardware Times
> 
> 
> A while back, it was reported that AMD might launch additional Zen 3 SKUs leveraging the 3D V-Cache technology. It would seem that that rumor is indeed true. Well-reputed tipster @Greymon55 has stated that there will be “several new products” headed to the Zen 3D family next month. There’s no...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hardwaretimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541710124535885824


I'll believe it when it's officially announced. Makes no sense to release those chips now unless Zen4 is getting delayed.


----------



## jonRock1992

From a business standpoint, it seems like releasing a more powerful Zen3 gaming CPU would hurt Zen4 sales. So I highly doubt that there would be a 5900X3D.


----------



## BNSoul

I can't seem to get effective clocks to 4540MHz, my best core is almost there and always does 4539 while the rest do 4538, rarely 4539, did anyone get there with just PBO2 optimizations yet? With an artificially capped CPU like this I thought effective should be almost 1:1, guess I'm completely wrong or clueless. (No blck OC, just PBO2 adjustment).











Also, temps were chill yesterday (18-19º very early in the morning due to summer storms) and both R20 and R23 improved, if only I had AC in this room... maybe I could break the 6K / 15,3000 barriers.

5915 score R20, no OC, just PBO2 tuner.











15293 score R23, no OC, just PBO2 tuner.












Also CPU-Z is one of my most hated benchmarks, ST is always 629-631 (with PBO2 tuner, no overclocking) but the tiniest thing happening on Windows 11 in the background like having Steam launcher or Chrome minimized brings MT score from 6550+ to exactly 6529 every single time.


----------



## Nico67

I have been playing with ram tuning and can get pretty decent 3774 (3666 x 102.9) c15 and c14, but so far nothing successful 3800/1900 etc (memory hole). Interestingly I can boot 3866/1933 3933/1966 and even tried 4015/ 2008 c16, but the performance just seems to get worse, very laggy. I do get WHEA errors, but its just hits like 100, 1, 1, 1, 100, 1 ... at fairly spread intervals.
Just curious as to why its so bad, when memtest5 seems to pass or 1 error type of thing?


----------



## BNSoul

Sparrow1408 said:


> I'll believe it when it's officially announced. Makes no sense to release those chips now unless Zen4 is getting delayed.


How are they going to make those 5600X3D and 5900X3D anyways?

It is my understanding from multiple sources that only 100% quality 5800X chips are selected for 3D stacked cache manufacturing, there's just the tiniest fraction of production defects during the application of the cache layer, so after disabling 2 cores or part of the cache size for hypothetical 5600X3D or 5900X3D production (the 5900 would need two rejected chiplets from 5800X3D manufacturing) would turn into a super limited quantity run not worth it at all for AMD to do / market / commercialize when they're full focus into AM5 Zen 4 and Zen 4 3D Cache now. Maybe they could do the 5600X3D if they're crazy enough but the 5900X3D is not going to happen.

And I'm not even mentioning the latency and performance issues associated with worse quality silicon and 3D Cache stacking, particularly in the case of the hypothetical 5900X3D that would require two defective 5800X3D leftovers whilst also requiring 2 layers of 100 MB cache (and as I mentioned above the manufacturing process is down to a T and defects are so insanely rare). So are they willing to go through all of that just to get the same or most probably worse performance than the absolute PERFECT quality 5800X3D they're producing now in gaming?

Nonsense, just click bait articles.


----------



## Mannekino

Has anyone delidded their 5800X3D and direct die cooled it with a water block? If so:

What tool did you use for delidding?
How did you remove the solder (I'm all out of quick silver and looking for alternative compounds to cleanly remove all the solder)?
What CPU water block did you use?
What kind of washers/spacers did you use?
What other modification did you make in order to make direct die work?


----------



## Fight Game

the one person that did it in the link i posted is the only case of anyone trying, that I've been able to find


----------



## BCB57

Teussi said:


> I must been doing something wrong because i dont see any difference in CPU temp, cb23 scores and power draw when comparing: -30 CO vs -30 CO and PPT 114, TDC 75 EDC 120A
> Hwinfo shows difference in CPU PPT, TDC and EDC limit % so something is happening. Any advice? Using v2 version of PBO2 tuner with task schedule auto startup.


In my experience, with -30 CO actual PPT tops out at about 110-112W, so any limit above that will have no impact. 

Edit: I should note that I'm running a 0.0750 undervolt, so that's also a factor. For my system, CPU temperature is ultimately the limiting factor as I can see throttling start to happen at 80C. My best results have been achieved after adjusting CO, undervolt and LLC such that CPU temperature under load peaks at 79. Under those conditions, the CPU uses about 1.15v and 110W.


----------



## Sparrow1408

BNSoul said:


> How are they going to make those 5600X3D and 5900X3D anyways?
> 
> It is my understanding from multiple sources that only 100% quality 5800X chips are selected for 3D stacked cache manufacturing, there's just the tiniest fraction of production defects during the application of the cache layer, so after disabling 2 cores or part of the cache size for hypothetical 5600X3D or 5900X3D production (the 5900 would need two rejected chiplets from 5800X3D manufacturing) would turn into a super limited quantity run not worth it at all for AMD to do / market / commercialize when they're full focus into AM5 Zen 4 and Zen 4 3D Cache now. Maybe they could do the 5600X3D if they're crazy enough but the 5900X3D is not going to happen.
> 
> And I'm not even mentioning the latency and performance issues associated with worse quality silicon and 3D Cache stacking, particularly in the case of the hypothetical 5900X3D that would require two defective 5800X3D leftovers whilst also requiring 2 layers of 100 MB cache (and as I mentioned above the manufacturing process is down to a T and defects are so insanely rare). So are they willing to go through all of that just to get the same or most probably worse performance than the absolute PERFECT quality 5800X3D they're producing now in gaming?
> 
> Nonsense, just click bait articles.


MLid did a video on this - apparently this WAS on AMD's roadmap at one point but...


----------



## pikachusarefood

Increasing loadline calibration settings seem to have improved mouse feel for me with my X3d, but I can't really tell if this is placebo or not -- is there any chance this is even a possibility?


----------



## Gregix

Ok, this is what I managed to get so far. BUT.
On cold, is ok, no whea, prime, tm5 goes until I stopped it. 
Warm, after like 2hrs or more FF14 play, I have WHEA in first 3 minutes or so. No WHEA while playing. No TM errors either.
Any idea what I can touch to get rid of WHEA?


----------



## Sparrow1408

Gregix said:


> Ok, this is what I managed to get so far. BUT.
> On cold, is ok, no whea, prime, tm5 goes until I stopped it.
> Warm, after like 2hrs or more FF14 play, I have WHEA in first 3 minutes or so. No WHEA while playing. No TM errors either.
> Any idea what I can touch to get rid of WHEA?
> View attachment 2565896


Drop your speed to 1900 1:1:1

I can get 2000 1:1:1 to run, and it will benchmark fine, but anything above 1900 gives WHEA errors. Some people have Golden samples that will do higher but I think someone on this thread said they had to test 100 CPUs or something to find one...


----------



## Taraquin

Gregix said:


> Ok, this is what I managed to get so far. BUT.
> On cold, is ok, no whea, prime, tm5 goes until I stopped it.
> Warm, after like 2hrs or more FF14 play, I have WHEA in first 3 minutes or so. No WHEA while playing. No TM errors either.
> Any idea what I can touch to get rid of WHEA?
> View attachment 2565896


If you only get a few WHEA19 try lowering SOC (lowest stable before aida latency becomes worse) or lowering/raising vddp, your IOD may be too low. If you get a lot there is little hope.


----------



## Taraquin

BCB57 said:


> In my experience, with -30 CO actual PPT tops out at about 110-112W, so any limit above that will have no impact.
> 
> Edit: I should note that I'm running a 0.0750 undervolt, so that's also a factor. For my system, CPU temperature is ultimately the limiting factor as I can see throttling start to happen at 80C. My best results have been achieved after adjusting CO, undervolt and LLC such that CPU temperature under load peaks at 79. Under those conditions, the CPU uses about 1.15v and 110W.


If temp gets lower, consumption will drop. Around 70-71C and 75-76C frequency tends to drop at same consumption. On a 5600X I build using stock cooler temp at 76W limit got to 82C in CB and frequency 4.1, upgraded to dark rock slim and temp dropped to 73C and frequency stayd at 4.3 still at 76W limit. With good AIO cooling, CO and temps below 70C I bet consumption would stay around 100W allcore.


----------



## Blameless

pikachusarefood said:


> Increasing loadline calibration settings seem to have improved mouse feel for me with my X3d, but I can't really tell if this is placebo or not -- is there any chance this is even a possibility?


Too much droop can result in clock stretching and performance loss, but usually only at very heavy load and isn't likely to be responsible for mouse issues.


----------



## PJVol

Blameless said:


> Too much droop can result in clock stretching and performance loss, but usually only at very heavy load and isn't likely to be responsible for mouse issues.


Given the plenty of different VRM designs around AM4 platform and their "implementation specifics" I wouldn't be surprised if it really does.

Consider scenario when some (or even all) cores which are about to handle input event are in some C-state for the time being, and their fast wake-up requires quick and accurate response from the PDN, which for example depends on the voltage slew rate setting or on the propagation delay or whatever else.
I don't claim that this exactly is the case, but who knows...


----------



## Mannekino

spcysls said:


> “Kombo Strike’ is curve optimizer. Setting it to 1 is equivalent to -10, 2 is -20, and 3 is -30.


I decided to test it out myself and the results are pretty amazing.

*My setup*

Motherboard: MSI MEG B550 UNIFY
BIOS version: 7D13v171 (Beta version)
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Graphics card: MSI GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER GAMING X TRIO
Memory: Trident Z Neo DDR4-3600 CL14-14-14-34 1.45V 32GB (4x8GB) F4-3600C14Q-32GTZNA
OS: Windows 11 21H2
Cooling solution: custom loop with dual 360mm radiators
Ambient temperature: 22℃ in airconditioned room
Pretty much Optimized Defaults BIOS settings with these changes

XMP Profile 1 Enabled
Global C States Enabled
*Cinebench R23*
Benchmarkt test


Setting1st pass2nd passDefault1468614641Kombo 11469814732Kombo 21488514961Kombo 31506815049

Stress test using Cinebench R23 (10 minutes with maxed pump & fans)


SettingPeak TempAvg TempPeak PowerAvg PowerDefault84.1℃81.3℃119.4W112.2WKombo 180.8℃80.4℃116.4W113.4WKombo 278.6℃78.0℃112.2W109.5WKombo 373.0℃72.3℃100.0W98.2W

*3DMark Time Spy*


SettingTotalGPUCPUDefault119941198512047Kombo 1120421198312391Kombo 2120101196912251Kombo 3120451196512521

*Superposition 1080p Extreme*


SettingTotal scoreDefault7442Kombo 17452Kombo 27442Kombo 37456

*Horizon Zero Dawn*


SettingTotal scoreDefault21660Kombo 121402Kombo 221723Kombo 321630

*Red Dead Redemption 2*


SettingMin FPSMax FPSAvg FPSDefault37.6111.380.9Kombo 139.9111.780.8Kombo 236.7110.980.9Kombo 336.7110.680.8

So... should I keep Kombo Strike level 3 enabled? Any thoughts on the pros and cons? Seems to me I'm getting the same/slightly better performance with way lower temps and power consumption.

My conclusion


----------



## BCB57

Nice results, and no down side that I'm aware of. 2 questions: which stress test did you use (CPU-Z?), and what are your default CPPC settings (both Auto?). You may want to try adding a slight undervolt, assuming your Beta BIOS allows for that, although your thermals and efficiency are already excellent. I envy your cooling setup!


----------



## Mannekino

@BCB57
Hi, thank you. Here is a picture of my build with all the cooling parts. I did a 10 minute run in Cinebench R23 for the stress test. After 1 minute into each test I pressed the reset values button in HWiNFO and 30 seconds before the end of the stress test I wrote down the results. I manually set the PWM of my pump and fans to 100% for the stress test for a fair result since I normally have fan curves based on the coolant temperature. I just checked both CPPC settings in my BIOS and they're set to Auto.


----------



## BCB57

Beautiful build! Is that an 011 XL? 

Here are the results with my EK-240 AIO... it's a good little AIO but still no comparison. This is CB23 throttling test about 7 minutes in -- CPU temp has stabilized at 78-79C, and that's with "Kombo Strike" level 3 and a 0.0750 undervolt. Without the undervolt, CPU temp rises into the low 80s and performance suffers.

I have the AIO pump at max (per EK's recommendation) and use a fan curve that hits 90% at 85C. My top CB23 score (after shamelessly stripping away unnecessary processes) is 15,026 and I'm resigned to that pending any more BIOS or chipset driver magic. NEXT build will be a custom loop.


----------



## Mannekino

Yes, it's an O11 XL. But my current cooling solution is way overkill for the 5800X3D. The primary problem is the thermal transfer from the die to the IHS I think. A 240mm AIO should be perfectly fine for the 5800X3D. I've talked with some people in the Watercooling Discord server who in turn talked to the dude that delidded his 5800X3D and that person had some good results with Direct Die cooling his 5800X3D. I upgraded from a 9900K with Direct Die cooling. My 9900K had significantly lower temperatures than my 5800X3D with over 200W CPU Package Power during all core stress testing.

I'm currently asking myself the question if I'm insane enough to delid my 5800X3D.


----------



## Gregix

I would skip it. I did delid my 9900kf, and used some sanding but at the end I'm not sure it was worth it.


----------



## Antonis_35

spcysls said:


> “Kombo Strike’ is curve optimizer. Setting it to 1 is equivalent to -10, 2 is -20, and 3 is -30.


Thnx for the useful explanation. I see that they've added Core Offset Voltage as well but I haven't tested it yet.


----------



## RaXelliX

I have a problem with My 5800X3D. It wont boost beyond 4450 Mhz.
When playing around with recommended settings in the first post (i had C-States disabled and preferred cores enabled) i was briefly able to see 4500 on two cores and 4550 on the best core (perf #1/1).
However that went away even without rebooting. So the chip is clearly capable of boosting higher but i have not found correct settings for it. Could it be that some of my voltages are eating into the power budget?

My CB23 scores were normally even as low as 13800 MT. I did managed to improve that to 14700 MT after playing around with PBO2 Tuner but i still feel like im lacking performance for some reason.
Just to be clear - this even happens with optimized defaults in BIOS. FCLK wont go above 1866. 1900+ is no post no matter how much voltage i give it.
AIDA64 memory latency is around 60ns. I was able to get 58ns but that was not TM5 stable.

Im running the latest BIOS available for my board and the latest chipset drivers. Hardware is as described below:
X570 Aorus Master (v1.0) bios f36e (AGESA 1.2.0.7)
4x8GB Viper Steel 4400 C19 configured to 3733 as seen below (TM5 Absolut 2 cycles stable at high ambient with high GPU load).
RTX 2080Ti and Windows 10 20H2/2009 (old install).
CPU cooler is a 420mm AIO (Arctic LFII) with offset mount and TG Grizzly Extreme paste. So temps are not really an issue.


----------



## ali42

Hello,

I have been lurking on this thread for a while trying to find a solution but I seems to have the same problem as @RaXelliX . At stock settings and no tuning, I don't reach the usual stock CB23 MT score, something I have observed here around ~14300~14500... Instead, I hover around ~14000.

At first, I checked all usual limits PPT, TDC, EDC and temp. PPT and TDC are under 80% and EDC hover at 90% and temp at full load around ~83c with ambiant at 26c . Things I have noted is that CPU package power tends to stay at 104 W while people on this thread are having ~115~124 W.

Things I have tried already and no change observed:

Clear CMOS (multiple time)
Load default settings
Latest chipset driver and latest BIOS with AGESA V2 1.2.0.7
Manually set PPT, TDC, EDC at stock values
Manually set PPT, TDC, EDC slightly above stocks
Fresh Windows 11 reinstall with only latest chipset driver
Things I tried with change observed:

PBO2 Tuner with -10 and -20 does increase my score to ~14500~14700 and decrease temp

What did I miss here? (Any hidden/less known limit?) 

Any help appreciated, thanks!


B450 Aorus Elite rev 1, bios F64b with AGESA V2 1.2.0.7
AIO Liquid Freezer II 280 with offset mount
2x8GB Crucial 3200 (XMP)
Windows 11 Pro 21H2


----------



## MrHoof

ali42 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have been lurking on this thread for a while trying to find a solution but I seems to have the same problem as @RaXelliX . At stock settings and no tuning, I don't reach the usual stock CB23 MT score, something I have observed here around ~14300~14500... Instead, I hover around ~14000.
> 
> At first, I checked all usual limits PPT, TDC, EDC and temp. PPT and TDC are under 80% and EDC hover at 90% and temp at full load around ~83c with ambiant at 26c . Things I have noted is that CPU package power tends to stay at 104 W while people on this thread are having ~115~124 W.
> 
> Things I have tried already and no change observed:
> 
> Clear CMOS (multiple time)
> Load default settings
> Latest chipset driver and latest BIOS with AGESA V2 1.2.0.7
> Manually set PPT, TDC, EDC at stock values
> Manually set PPT, TDC, EDC slightly above stocks
> Fresh Windows 11 reinstall with only latest chipset driver
> Things I tried with change observed:
> 
> PBO2 Tuner with -10 and -20 does increase my score to ~14500~14700 and decrease temp
> 
> What did I miss here? (Any hidden/less known limit?)
> 
> Any help appreciated, thanks!
> 
> 
> B450 Aorus Elite rev 1, bios F64b with AGESA V2 1.2.0.7
> AIO Liquid Freezer II 280 with offset mount
> 2x8GB Crucial 3200 (XMP)
> Windows 11 Pro 21H2
> 
> View attachment 2566047


Would not say same issue, hes using a 420mm AIO and you are hitting above 80°C in CB that already is a big a enough difference.
If your already at 83°C just pulling 104W your cooling solution is not the best would expect a 280mm AIO to do a little better.
Ryzen starts to reduce boost over 80°C thats why your score is below avg compared to people that top out below 79°C and increasing limits wont do anything..
What could help is reducing the limits so you stay below 80°C.


----------



## ali42

MrHoof said:


> Would not say same issue, hes using a 420mm AIO and you are hitting above 80°C in CB that already is a big a enough difference.
> If your already at 83°C just pulling 104W your cooling solution is not the best would expect a 280mm AIO to do a little better.
> Ryzen starts to reduce boost over 80°C thats why your score is below avg compared to people that top out below 79°C and increasing limits wont do anything..
> What could help is reducing the limits so you stay below 80°C.


Thank you. Guess I'm going to repaste this weekend just to be sure and just deal with it. At least, I know why. (I though the boost reduction started at 90c).


----------



## Blameless

Never had much use for the setting before, as adjusting PPT/TDC/EDC directly works fine on all other AM4 parts, but if one is hitting power limits before thermal limits and has already tuned COs, altering "VddcrVddfull" can provide similar benefits.










If your firmware doesn't expose the setting in the UEFI setup, you can check your NVRAM dump for "Setup Question = Adjust VddcrVddfull Mode" and "Setup Question = VddcrVddfull_Scale_Current".

Personally, I noticed that HWiNFO's power reporting deviation accuracy reading was indicating that my board was over-reporting power consumption, possibly limiting performance, after I adjusted loadline calibration to eliminate clock stretching at higher loads. Increasing "VddcrVddfull_Scale_Current" from 210 to 235 compensates for this and now the power reporting deviation accuracy is ~100 at typical full load (Cinebench multi-threaded or CPU-Z stress, for example) and ~90% at absolute peak load (the more demanding y-cruncher tests).


----------



## Llado

Should I install Windows 10 or Windows 11 for the 5800x3d?


----------



## ali42

Blameless said:


> Personally, I noticed that HWiNFO's power reporting deviation accuracy reading was indicating that my board was over-reporting power consumption, possibly limiting performance, after I adjusted loadline calibration to eliminate clock stretching at higher loads. Increasing "VddcrVddfull_Scale_Current" from 210 to 235 compensates for this and now the power reporting deviation accuracy is ~100 at typical full load (Cinebench multi-threaded or CPU-Z stress, for example) and ~90% at absolute peak load (the more demanding y-cruncher tests).


Oh... I think you just found out what is my issue.

My power reporting deviation at full C23 load is <85%. I'm not exactly sure how this work but since learning this, I had been testing random things and I'm noticing strange behavior that don't make sense for me:

Decreasing EDC below stock value (like 110 instead of 140 def), _increases CPU temp a few C to ~87c _
Decreasing PPT to 104 also increases CPU temp
I can put -50 in all cores in PBO2 tuner and run C23 fine? (just a single pass, didn't test stability), obviously this massively decreases cpu temp (79c) and boost clock in MT to ~4350 range instead of low ~4200 and C23 score reaches the average score I'm been seeing here (~14600).
So I can conclude that my MB is not working as intended? (I didn't find any BIOS setting related to "power reporting deviation"...)


----------



## Blameless

ali42 said:


> My power reporting deviation at full C23 load is <85%.


This means the board is modestly under reporting CPU power consumption, which will have very similar effects to increasing power limits.



ali42 said:


> I'm not exactly sure how this work but since learning this, I had been testing random things and I'm noticing strange behavior that don't make sense for me:
> 
> Decreasing EDC below stock value (like 110 instead of 140 def), _increases CPU temp a few C to ~87c _
> Decreasing PPT to 104 also increases CPU temp
> I can put -50 in all cores in PBO2 tuner and run C23 fine? (just a single pass, didn't test stability), obviously this massively decreases cpu temp (79c) and boost clock in MT to ~4350 range instead of low ~4200 and C23 score reaches the average score I'm been seeing here (~14600).


Reducing power limits might allow higher or longer opportunistic boosting, depending on workload. Also, it's highly unlikely that -50 CO is actually taking; chances are it's the same as setting -30.



ali42 said:


> So I can conclude that my MB is not working as intended? (I didn't find any BIOS setting related to "power reporting deviation"...)


If this was otherwise at stock, it would imply the board was either not calibrated properly or trying to cheat by under reporting power.


----------



## BNSoul

No overclock here just PBO2 Tuner limits, LLC on Auto, I get 109% power report in 7-zip benchmarks, temps never go above 75-76ºC since chipset drivers update. 101% in Cinebench R23 (where I typically score 15200+ my best run was 15300)











Also, with all cores boosting without issues to 4550 I was wondering if effective clocks below 👇 are normal or is some kind of stretching going on? (No overclock, PBO2 Tuner limits applied)











Lastly, can anyone share Jetstream V2 results on latest Chrome (no overclock, PBO2 Tuner limits applied)? Thanks in advance.


----------



## RaXelliX

BNSoul said:


> No overclock here just PBO2 Tuner limits, LLC on Auto, I get 109% power report in 7-zip benchmarks, temps never go above 75-76ºC since chipset drivers update. 101% in Cinebench R23 (where I typically score 15200+ my best run was 15300)
> Also, with all cores boosting without issues to 4550 I was wondering if effective clocks below 👇 are normal or is some kind of stretching going on? (No overclock, PBO2 Tuner limits applied)
> Lastly, can anyone share Jetstream V2 results on latest Chrome (no overclock, PBO2 Tuner limits applied)? Thanks in advance.


Wow wow wow is all i can say. 4550 on all cores. Damn. What are your PBO settings in BIOS? I assume most are auto. What about C-States and CPPC?
And the score - 15200. I currently get 14400 typical, 14700 best. Before PBO2 Tuner tweaking i was getting even lower score at 13800.
Im still missing performance for some reason.
I did some searching and one MSI user who complained about 4450 limit was able to get 4550 with a different windows power plan from here: Ryzen Custom Power Plans for Windows 10 (Balanced and...

I tried that and the Snappy variant gives me ever so slighty better scores than the Ultimate but im still not seeing 4550 ever.


----------



## BNSoul

RaXelliX said:


> Wow wow wow is all i can say. 4550 on all cores. Damn. What are your PBO settings in BIOS? I assume most are auto. What about C-States and CPPC


One core at a time obviously, but they're randomly and often boosting while running desktop apps and in some games. I'm still looking for feedback with regard to effective clocks.

As for BIOS settings: CPPC enabled, preferred cores disabled, global c-states set to Auto, LLC set to Auto. No overclock whatsoever, I'm just infinitely grateful to PBO2 Tuner programmer/engineer.

Try closing HWInfo64 if you want accurate R23 results, the constant hardware polling interferes a bit with this heavy workload.


----------



## Jabdah

BNSoul said:


> One core at a time obviously, but they're randomly and often boosting while running desktop apps and in some games. I'm still looking for feedback with regard to effective clocks.
> 
> As for BIOS settings: CPPC enabled, preferred cores disabled, global c-states set to Auto, LLC set to Auto. No overclock whatsoever, I'm just infinitely grateful to PBO2 Tuner programmer/engineer.
> 
> Try closing HWInfo64 if you want accurate R23 results, the constant hardware polling interferes a bit with this heavy workload.



Heya

ive copied your settings.. but im not getting same result...










maybe its cause of B550 chipset ? ... System is Air cooled only... Dark Rock 4 pro with push / pull fans

U asked for Jetstream2 results...latest Chrome Version 103.0.5060.114 (Offizieller Build) (64-Bit)

Oh Wait...wrong PBO settings... i send another pic 










New pic, with same settings ion POBTuner2


----------



## BNSoul

Jabdah said:


> Jetstream2 results...latest Chrome Version 103.0.5060.114 (Offizieller Build) (64-Bit)
> 
> Oh Wait...wrong PBO settings... i send another pic


Thanks a lot mate 👍 considering that I'm getting 242-250 (depending on day of the week lol) this pretty much confirms that I'm not impacted by my middle of the road RAM kit while browsing moderately.

As for your cooling it's the same I'm using (DRP4 push pull config but I took out the fan in the middle since during my testing I found that it was trapping heat more than it was exhausting). These days in hot summer weather I'm between 70 and 75 °C max in heavy benchmarking so there's no throttling and scores are high... but I think I'm not going to know the true limits of the CPU until winter weather or buy me a nice AC system in my room (I don't need it tbh). It doesn't matter in games anyways.


----------



## superkyle1721

ali42 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have been lurking on this thread for a while trying to find a solution but I seems to have the same problem as @RaXelliX . At stock settings and no tuning, I don't reach the usual stock CB23 MT score, something I have observed here around ~14300~14500... Instead, I hover around ~14000.
> 
> At first, I checked all usual limits PPT, TDC, EDC and temp. PPT and TDC are under 80% and EDC hover at 90% and temp at full load around ~83c with ambiant at 26c . Things I have noted is that CPU package power tends to stay at 104 W while people on this thread are having ~115~124 W.
> 
> Things I have tried already and no change observed:
> 
> Clear CMOS (multiple time)
> Load default settings
> Latest chipset driver and latest BIOS with AGESA V2 1.2.0.7
> Manually set PPT, TDC, EDC at stock values
> Manually set PPT, TDC, EDC slightly above stocks
> Fresh Windows 11 reinstall with only latest chipset driver
> Things I tried with change observed:
> 
> PBO2 Tuner with -10 and -20 does increase my score to ~14500~14700 and decrease temp
> 
> What did I miss here? (Any hidden/less known limit?)
> 
> Any help appreciated, thanks!
> 
> 
> B450 Aorus Elite rev 1, bios F64b with AGESA V2 1.2.0.7
> AIO Liquid Freezer II 280 with offset mount
> 2x8GB Crucial 3200 (XMP)
> Windows 11 Pro 21H2
> 
> View attachment 2566047


I’m on a dark hero board and I have the same problem except my power deviation is at 102% so not the issue. Tried everything you posted above also and ended up getting it to boost to 4.55 right after an install of windows but never again. I’ve been pulling my hair out trying to solve this but I think it’s got to be a bug at this point. There is no explanation as there is no apparent throttling and max temps under R23 is 77C even without CO.


----------



## MrHoof

Ambient is ~20°C at the moment but this is not stable sadly my core3 is terrible and needs -8 to be fully stable.
The bad thing about that at -8 all core loads will just use that voltage as all core voltage dropping scores in the 14700 range :<.



> Noctua U12A in a NR200.


----------



## BNSoul

MrHoof said:


> Ambient is ~20°C at the moment but this is not stable sadly my core3 is terrible and needs -8 to be fully stable.
> The bad thing about that at -8 all core loads will just use that voltage as all core voltage dropping scores in the 14700 range :<.


I thought AMD cherry picked 5800X dies to be transformed into 3D cache variants? Like all cores had to be perfect.


----------



## MrHoof

BNSoul said:


> I thought AMD cherry picked 5800X dies to be transformed into 3D cache variants? Like all cores had to be perfect.


Well mine is a 2207PGS one of the earliest samplels might have slipped through but core3 fails ycrunsher n32/64 at anything below -8.
Still a really good chip tbh since CPPC works correctly for me and its almost never used in normal usecase.


----------



## Fight Game

BNSoul said:


> I thought AMD cherry picked 5800X dies to be transformed into 3D cache variants? Like all cores had to be perfect.


I think they did enough to ensure they can do the rated numbers, or possibly just under, and thats it. Seems to be all we know until we get more overclocking capabilties


----------



## brswattt

RaXelliX said:


> I have a problem with My 5800X3D. It wont boost beyond 4450 Mhz.
> When playing around with recommended settings in the first post (i had C-States disabled and preferred cores enabled) i was briefly able to see 4500 on two cores and 4550 on the best core (perf #1/1).
> However that went away even without rebooting. So the chip is clearly capable of boosting higher but i have not found correct settings for it. Could it be that some of my voltages are eating into the power budget?
> 
> My CB23 scores were normally even as low as 13800 MT. I did managed to improve that to 14700 MT after playing around with PBO2 Tuner but i still feel like im lacking performance for some reason.
> Just to be clear - this even happens with optimized defaults in BIOS. FCLK wont go above 1866. 1900+ is no post no matter how much voltage i give it.
> AIDA64 memory latency is around 60ns. I was able to get 58ns but that was not TM5 stable.
> 
> Im running the latest BIOS available for my board and the latest chipset drivers. Hardware is as described below:
> X570 Aorus Master (v1.0) bios f36e (AGESA 1.2.0.7)
> 4x8GB Viper Steel 4400 C19 configured to 3733 as seen below (TM5 Absolut 2 cycles stable at high ambient with high GPU load).
> RTX 2080Ti and Windows 10 20H2/2009 (old install).
> CPU cooler is a 420mm AIO (Arctic LFII) with offset mount and TG Grizzly Extreme paste. So temps are not really an issue.


I had this issue and had to roll back to 1.2.0.6b bios instead of 1.2.0.7. Not sure why, but now I get similar scores compared to the rest of the folk. (Asus Prime X370 Pro)
CPPC ON / preferred cores off


----------



## brswattt

ali42 said:


> Oh... I think you just found out what is my issue.
> 
> My power reporting deviation at full C23 load is <85%. I'm not exactly sure how this work but since learning this, I had been testing random things and I'm noticing strange behavior that don't make sense for me:
> 
> Decreasing EDC below stock value (like 110 instead of 140 def), _increases CPU temp a few C to ~87c _
> Decreasing PPT to 104 also increases CPU temp
> I can put -50 in all cores in PBO2 tuner and run C23 fine? (just a single pass, didn't test stability), obviously this massively decreases cpu temp (79c) and boost clock in MT to ~4350 range instead of low ~4200 and C23 score reaches the average score I'm been seeing here (~14600).
> So I can conclude that my MB is not working as intended? (I didn't find any BIOS setting related to "power reporting deviation"...)


I replied to the other guy with the same issue, but I had to roll back 1 BIOS version (from 1.2.0.7 to 1.2.0.6b). After that I was getting proper CB23 scores and boost clocks.


----------



## ali42

Blameless said:


> This means the board is modestly under reporting CPU power consumption, which will have very similar effects to increasing power limits.
> 
> Reducing power limits might allow higher or longer opportunistic boosting, depending on workload. Also, it's highly unlikely that -50 CO is actually taking; chances are it's the same as setting -30.
> 
> If this was otherwise at stock, it would imply the board was either not calibrated properly or trying to cheat by under reporting power.





brswattt said:


> I replied to the other guy with the same issue, but I had to roll back 1 BIOS version (from 1.2.0.7 to 1.2.0.6b). After that I was getting proper CB23 scores and boost clocks.


Everything is stock (BIOS -> load default setting) (except the particular test with PBO2 Tuner).

I have downgraded to 1.2.0.6b and I got ~14200 points (+200) with default settings and setting a EDC limit to 110 got me ~14350 (+150).

Look like a bad bios from GB or bad AGESA ... anyway, thanks everyone.


----------



## brswattt

ali42 said:


> Everything is stock (BIOS -> load default setting) (except the particular test with PBO2 Tuner).
> 
> I have downgraded to 1.2.0.6b and I got ~14200 points (+200) with default settings and setting a EDC limit to 110 got me ~14350 (+150).
> 
> Look like a bad bios from GB or bad AGESA ... anyway, thanks everyone.


Cool, glad you were able to get it resolved.


----------



## Jabdah

Dunno how to explain, but i have problems to run PBOTuner2 by default on Windows startup.
Is there any " How To " avail?
i saw: make a batch with:
@Echo off
"D:\PBO2 tuner.exe" -27 -27 -27 -27 -27 -27 -27 -27 95 75 105 4550 90 1 ( just an example )

But thats not working for me. Yes, i use the latest Version of PBO Tuner2 ( i guess its the latest 12.06.22 )

Im not a windows pro, so im out of ideas how to make that PBOTuner2 batch run from Windows startup

Any help welcome, thx


----------



## BCB57

First, please refer to my post near top of page 79, and ensure you're using the latest version of the app. 

Not sure about batch files, but the task scheduler version runs fine.


----------



## Jabdah

BCB57 said:


> First, please refer to my post near top of page 79, and ensure you're using the latest version of the app.
> 
> Not sure about batch files, but the task scheduler version runs fine.


Used the Scheduler - now its working fine... beside one small problem.

If i reboot the PC, and wait till Windows has loaded all its " crap " and start Pbotuner2 the -30 value is avail, but all other settings are zero ( 0 ) - if i press SET in the pbotuner2, the correct settings appear... ( like 115 75 114 and so on )


----------



## BCB57

Jabdah said:


> Used the Scheduler - now its working fine... beside one small problem.
> 
> If i reboot the PC, and wait till Windows has loaded all its " crap " and start Pbotuner2 the -30 value is avail, but all other settings are zero ( 0 ) - if i press SET in the pbotuner2, the correct settings appear... ( like 115 75 114 and so on )


Same here ... I guess it's a bug. Pretty sure the values are already in effect even before we hit "set" though.


----------



## Choripan791

Hello guys,

I'm getting 14415 - 14499 points on the CPU multi core test. Is this in range with what you guys are seeing or is it lower than expected? My RAM is 32GB DDR4 3200 CL16.


----------



## BCB57

That's a perfectly good score for this CPU, but you can probably do better using curve optimization via the PBO2 Tuner tool. Start with -30 on each core to see if that's stable for you -- it is for most. Then possibly add a slight undervolt if your BIOS allows for that. I'm using -30 all-core, PPT 115 (TDC and EDC stock) and a -0.0750 CPU voltage offset. 

These chips are well-binned and tend to like lower voltages. Under factory default voltage they tend to run hot and start throttling early. In my experience keeping peak CPU temp below 80 pays dividends. I just ran 14,779 with 8 Chrome tabs open and an Aida 64 Sensor Panel running; max temp 78C. People here with really good cooling have done quite a bit better.


----------



## crun

hey, i am looking at upgrading from I5-10600K setup to 5800X3D+ASUSB550-I GAMING+Ripjaws V 3600/CL16 in N220 Max SFF. my first AMD CPU ever 

Any issues with this mobo when it comes to 5800X3D (bios lacking some features etc), any issues with the CPU I should be aware? it is often these small things that is not mentioned in the reviews that you discover later

when it comes to tweaking, basically only undervolting to cpu cool and clocks stable is what I should be looking at? plus memory overclocking?


----------



## PJVol

BCB57 said:


> Same here ... I guess it's a bug


=========================
UPDATE: fixed and updated original link.


----------



## Choripan791

BCB57 said:


> That's a perfectly good score for this CPU, but you can probably do better using curve optimization via the PBO2 Tuner tool. Start with -30 on each core to see if that's stable for you -- it is for most. Then possibly add a slight undervolt if your BIOS allows for that. I'm using -30 all-core, PPT 115 (TDC and EDC stock) and a -0.0750 CPU voltage offset.
> 
> These chips are well-binned and tend to like lower voltages. Under factory default voltage they tend to run hot and start throttling early. In my experience keeping peak CPU temp below 80 pays dividends. I just ran 14,779 with 8 Chrome tabs open and an Aida 64 Sensor Panel running; max temp 78C. People here with really good cooling have done quite a bit better.


Thanks, appreciate the response. Not ready to overclock just yet, bit new to this world! (had an i5 4670k back in the day but I forgot most about it)


----------



## Verangry

For all MSI Users with B550 / X570(s) Boards.

I Modded the available and latest Bios Files (thanks @Eder for unlocking CBS + PBS Menus for those boards) and unlocked CO + PBO + Voltages for the 5800X3D (use at own risk!).

Just rename to MSI.ROM for your board and flash it with Flashback.

The options are available but not everything seems to work (Boostoverride still won't work, if you change anything, the CPU remains at 3600MHz - for me at last).

X570(s)





AGESA 1207 - Ryzen 5800X3D BIOS MODS for X570 MSI Boards - Google Drive


AGESA 1207 Bios MODs for 5800X3D Users - Unlocked CBS + PBS by EDER - Voltages, Curve Optimizer, PBO, HPET and OpCache unlocked by myself




drive.google.com




B550





AGESA 1207 - Ryzen 5800X3D BIOS MODS for B550 MSI Boards - Google Drive


AGESA 1207 Bios MODs for 5800X3D Users (B550) Unlocked CBS + PBS by @Eder Voltages, Curve Optimizer, PBO, HPET and OpCache unlocked by myself




drive.google.com





PBO and CO works (even per core), so you wont need any 3rd party tools like SMU Debug Tool or PBO2 Tuner.


----------



## MarlowXim

Verangry said:


> For all MSI Users with B550 / X570(s) Boards.
> 
> I Modded the available and latest Bios Files (thanks @Eder for unlocking CBS + PBS Menus for those boards) and unlocked CO + PBO + Voltages for the 5800X3D (use at own risk!).
> 
> Just rename to MSI.ROM for your board and flash it with Flashback.
> 
> The options are available but not everything seems to work (Boostoverride still won't work, if you change anything, the CPU remains at 3600MHz - for me at last).
> 
> X570(s)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AGESA 1207 - Ryzen 5800X3D BIOS MODS for X570 MSI Boards - Google Drive
> 
> 
> AGESA 1207 Bios MODs for 5800X3D Users - Unlocked CBS + PBS by EDER - Voltages, Curve Optimizer, PBO, HPET and OpCache unlocked by myself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B550
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AGESA 1207 - Ryzen 5800X3D BIOS MODS for B550 MSI Boards - Google Drive
> 
> 
> AGESA 1207 Bios MODs for 5800X3D Users (B550) Unlocked CBS + PBS by @Eder Voltages, Curve Optimizer, PBO, HPET and OpCache unlocked by myself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PBO and CO works (even per core), so you wont need any 3rd party tools like SMU Debug Tool or PBO2 Tuner.


Thank you for doing this. Could you include the MSI B550 Unify 

Link with 171 version: MEG B550 UNIFY_v171.7z


----------



## edhutner

PJVol said:


> Haven't gotten around to fixing it yet, just its TODO priority was not high
> (not gonna put it aside anyway)


Even hwinfo64 have similar issue sometimes on first launch it does not show the correct pbo limits, on second launch it's ok. I remember i had raised this and hwinfo author explained that "the SMU refuses to initially provide information".


----------



## PJVol

edhutner said:


> hwinfo author explained that "the SMU refuses to initially provide information".


Yep, something like that. I thought it's a good idea to just transfer pm table to x86 space once in advance, before the main App event loop starts, where the first transfer failed at the first update of the "Limits" tab View.
---------------------------------------
Someone check it out please (🛠)


----------



## zzztopzzz

The MicroCenter in my area has some X3D's today for $419.99, and I almost sprang for one. I bought a Sig Sauer P322 .22 semi-auto instead for $399.99. Holds 21 rounds with 1 jacked. I believe the X3D pricing will come waaaay down by the 4th qtr this year. When that happens, my W7 rig will get one. 💩


----------



## loki_toki

idk if that's normal but my 5800x3d boost to 4.55 only with boost tester, i never saw not even 1 core boosting to 4.55 on idle/gaming, is that intended or not?


----------



## Verangry

MarlowXim said:


> Could you include the MSI B550 Unify
> Link with 171 version: MEG B550 UNIFY_v171.7z


Sure, _but without CBS and PBS menus_.
Only CO + PBO and Voltages are unlocked. (It's now online)

As soon as I know how to unlock CBS and PBS menus (Eder wanted to write a guide - but he is busy atm so it will take some time) I'll add / unlock them myself.


----------



## Mask

loki_toki said:


> idk if that's normal but my 5800x3d boost to 4.55 only with boost tester, i never saw not even 1 core boosting to 4.55 on idle/gaming, is that intended or not?


What interval in milliseconds are you monitoring your clocks? Using the Ryzen Balanced LowPower v8 power plan I am seeing 4550 in a couple games for a second every so often and quite often during idle.


----------



## BNSoul

loki_toki said:


> idk if that's normal but my 5800x3d boost to 4.55 only with boost tester, i never saw not even 1 core boosting to 4.55 on idle/gaming, is that intended or not?


Try setting global c-states to Auto. Mine boosts all the time while in Windows (even at 90-60-90 with -30 all core) and in gaming it's more rare with boosts happening typically in menus or loading bursts... unless it's a single core old game, in that case it boosts all the time to 4550, same for PS2 emulation.


----------



## pfinch

PJVol said:


> =========================
> UPDATE: fixed in Debug-CLI.7z


this is the last version?


is it recommend to use LLC (to negate vdrop)?


----------



## PJVol

pfinch said:


> this is the last version?


Yes, sir!


----------



## edhutner

What would be the best way to test stability on 5800x3d?
So far I am satisfied from temperature and results with msi beta feature - kombo strike on 3 (making curve optimizer to -30), and would like to keep it long term.
CoreCycler with y-cruncher, occt?


----------



## loki_toki

Mask said:


> What interval in milliseconds are you monitoring your clocks? Using the Ryzen Balanced LowPower v8 power plan I am seeing 4550 in a couple games for a second every so often and quite often during idle.


i have 2 sec but.. if it boosts for less than 2 sec well.. my old 5600x was reporting boosting to 4.85 on different cores with 2ms during idle/games..


----------



## loki_toki

BNSoul said:


> Try setting global c-states to Auto. Mine boosts all the time while in Windows (even at 90-60-90 with -30 all core) and in gaming it's more rare with boosts happening typically in menus or loading bursts... unless it's a single core old game, in that case it boosts all the time to 4550, same for PS2 emulation.


i already have global c-states set on auto from bios :/


----------



## Jabdah

PJVol said:


> Yes, sir!


Any reason why its older as the last release ? last one was 12.06.2022, this one is from april...


----------



## PJVol

Jabdah said:


> Any reason why its older as the last release ?


Guilty, Your Honor!
Actually new version is available at the original link.
Just ignore the one above.


----------



## Jabdah

PJVol said:


> Guilty, Your Honor!
> Actually new version is available at the original link.
> Just ignore the one above.


thx for that amazing app, works perfect now for me


----------



## OCmember

What's the correct link for the app?


----------



## PJVol

It's still here, in this post
CoreCycler - tool for testing Curve Optimizer settings


----------



## PJVol

Anyone using this tool can try this "moonrise" build with some minor changes in CLI:
(just curious about the CPU behavior with the FIT scalar set to 0)





Debug-cli-beta.7z







drive.google.com






> 'C:/path/to/PBO/tuner.exe' <CO*0*> <CO*1*> <CO*2*> ... <CO*n*> <PPT> <TDC> <EDC> <Fmax> <Scalar>



only full set of CO count arguments is mandatory if provided
limits are not applied if zero or omitted.
@KedarWolf - zero scalar value applied if provided (not the default 1 value)
exccessive arguments are ignored
Example: (8-core CPU)


> tuner.exe -5 -5 -5 -5 -5 -5 -5 -5 0 0 100 // set CO -5 and EDC to 100A
> tuner.exe -5 -5 -5 -5 -5 -5 -5 -5 100 // CO -5, PPT 100A
> tuner.exe -5 -5 -5 -5 -5 -5 -5 -5 0 90 0 4400 0 // CO -5, tdc 90A, fmax 4400mhz and scalar 0
> tuner.exe -10 -10 -10 -10 -10 -10 -10 -10 // set only CO, all cores to -10


----------



## BCB57

Hey, I just tried "scalar 0" with my previous settings (-30 all cores, and PPT 115), and I'm a fan! There's a marginal performance hit -- about 100 points lower on CB23 -- but a big improvement in thermals and power consumption. During the CB23 run my Aida64 sensor panel reported peak VCORE and package power of 1.074 volts and 90.05 watts, and CPU temperature maxed out at 70. A good 6-8 degrees cooler than with Scalar at "1." Unless there's a downside I haven't encountered yet, I will plan to keep this setting.


----------



## lestatdk

I see a 10C drop using scaler 0. CB23 drops from 15k to 14800. Have not tested in other benchmarks


----------



## PJVol

BCB57 said:


> A good 6-8 degrees cooler than with Scalar at "1.





lestatdk said:


> I see a 10C drop using scaler 0


Thanks, guys.
It's strange, but with my regular 2D vermeer, I haven't seen any noticeable t° drop so far at x0.
Perhaps it has smth to do with x3d or newer agesa specifics.


----------



## BCB57

Verangry said:


> For all MSI Users with B550 / X570(s) Boards.
> 
> I Modded the available and latest Bios Files (thanks @Eder for unlocking CBS + PBS Menus for those boards) and unlocked CO + PBO + Voltages for the 5800X3D (use at own risk!).
> 
> Just rename to MSI.ROM for your board and flash it with Flashback.
> 
> The options are available but not everything seems to work (Boostoverride still won't work, if you change anything, the CPU remains at 3600MHz - for me at last).
> 
> X570(s)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AGESA 1207 - Ryzen 5800X3D BIOS MODS for X570 MSI Boards - Google Drive
> 
> 
> AGESA 1207 Bios MODs for 5800X3D Users - Unlocked CBS + PBS by EDER - Voltages, Curve Optimizer, PBO, HPET and OpCache unlocked by myself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B550
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AGESA 1207 - Ryzen 5800X3D BIOS MODS for B550 MSI Boards - Google Drive
> 
> 
> AGESA 1207 Bios MODs for 5800X3D Users (B550) Unlocked CBS + PBS by @Eder Voltages, Curve Optimizer, PBO, HPET and OpCache unlocked by myself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PBO and CO works (even per core), so you wont need any 3rd party tools like SMU Debug Tool or PBO2 Tuner.


Has anyone here tried one of these yet? Feedback? TIA


----------



## Choripan791

Just done the single core test on my 58003XD. 1477 pts. Thoughts?

I also noticed it was using two cores. Is this normal behaviour?


----------



## Fight Game

BCB57 said:


> Has anyone here tried one of these yet? Feedback? TIA


I'm using the one for the b550 tomahawk. no issues, although I havent played with much other than the -30. trying to apply the 200mhz overclock will make it run slower. even pushing this option to enable and leaving the value at 0 (or auto?) makes it run slower as well


----------



## d0mmie

lestatdk said:


> I see a 10C drop using scaler 0. CB23 drops from 15k to 14800. Have not tested in other benchmarks


Not sure what to make of this. I don't have a scaler 0 option in my BIOS, lowest one is x1 (Gigabyte X570). Seems to default to x2 for the 5800X3D CPU, so tried x1 and it made no difference what so ever.


----------



## lestatdk

d0mmie said:


> Not sure what to make of this. I don't have a scaler 0 option in my BIOS, lowest one is x1 (Gigabyte X570). Seems to default to x2 for the 5800X3D CPU, so tried x1 and it made no difference what so ever.


The option is in PBO Tuner


----------



## jonRock1992

I just wanted to chime in and say that the 1.2.0.7 AGESA BIOS for the MSI X570S Carbon Max performs quite a bit worse than the 1.2.0.6.C AGESA BIOS. I could only get around 14800 mult-core CBR23 score with the latest bios, but I get around 15100 with the 1.2.0.6.C bios. Also, my temps are way lower. 77C vs 84C. My single-core score went up by 10 points as well. I remember reading somewhere in this thread recently that rolling back the bios would increase performance, and sure enough it does.


----------



## BNSoul

jonRock1992 said:


> I just wanted to chime in and say that the 1.2.0.7 AGESA BIOS for the MSI X570S Carbon Max performs quite a bit worse than the 1.2.0.6.C AGESA BIOS.


I know it's somewhat a silly question here but did you fully clear CMOS after installing new BIOS? I got the opposite experience, I went on to see 15200+ R23 scores and lower temps after upgrading to AGESA 1.2.0.7 (Gigabyte X570). So it's a QA issue with regard to the manufacturer, be it poor prior AGESA in my case or poor latest AGESA for you.


----------



## BNSoul

Choripan791 said:


> Just done the single core test on my 58003XD. 1477 pts. Thoughts?
> 
> I also noticed it was using two cores. Is this normal behaviour?


Standard result, I get 1500-ish so it's without margin of error. Also yeah it uses two cores switching lead role every few seconds. Same stuff as CPU-Z, maybe because SC boosting algorithms are generally limited in terms of active window. Not to mention the workload is so heavy that the CPU might not be boosting past 4450 at all in the case of the 5800X3D.


----------



## d0mmie

lestatdk said:


> The option is in PBO Tuner
> 
> View attachment 2566469


Ah I see. I don't use that software. Want to let it mature a bit or hoping Gigabyte will release a BIOS that actually supports underclocking (doubt it will happen though)


----------



## BNSoul

d0mmie said:


> Ah I see. I don't use that software. Want to let it mature a bit or hoping Gigabyte will release a BIOS that actually supports underclocking (doubt it will happen though)


Hope you don't mind that I'm curious to know which features or performance metrics you believe are not mature enough with regard to PBO2 Tuner, I'm more into optimization rather than overclocking and the aforementioned tool is giving good gains all across the board, enough to justify a daily use. Thanks in advance 👍


----------



## BCB57

Fight Game said:


> I'm using the one for the b550 tomahawk. no issues, although I havent played with much other than the -30. trying to apply the 200mhz overclock will make it run slower. even pushing this option to enable and leaving the value at 0 (or auto?) makes it run slower as well


Thanks. I had same experience with the short-lived MSI .AD3 beta for the X570 Unify. AMD seems to have somehow wired this chip to reject higher clock speeds.


----------



## BCB57

BNSoul said:


> Hope you don't mind that I'm curious to know which features or performance metrics you believe are not mature enough with regard to PBO2 Tuner, I'm more into optimization rather than overclocking and the aforementioned tool is giving good gains all across the board, enough to justify a daily use. Thanks in advance 👍


Ditto.


----------



## MrHoof

@PJVol found a intresting behavoir with scalar 0. Scalar 0 without CO will only boost to 4.25ghz singlecore but somehow adding -30 CO will fix it.

stock


>


scalar 0


>


scalar 0 CO -30


>


----------



## BHS1975

Delete


----------



## bmagnien

PJVol said:


> Thanks, guys.
> It's strange, but with my regular 2D vermeer, I haven't seen any noticeable t° drop so far at x0.
> Perhaps it has smth to do with x3d or newer agesa specifics.


What does the scalar actually affect/change? What would be the tangible/intended effect of changing from 1 to 0?


----------



## BNSoul

I did a quick R23 run in this hot summer weather for a Reddit user that didn't believe I was getting all 16 thread clocks 99,999999% close to 4450 even with reduced power limits and aggressive voltage curve -30 all-core (no overclock, just PBO2 Tuner usual settings for this workload). The thing is I noticed something super weird in the HWINFO panel.... since when does the 5800X3D boost in 25MHz steps? 4450 to 4475? is this a random bug? on just one core also... I thought there was just one way up straight from 4450 to 4550 and then -25MHz steps in throttling conditions.


----------



## d0mmie

BNSoul said:


> Hope you don't mind that I'm curious to know which features or performance metrics you believe are not mature enough with regard to PBO2 Tuner, I'm more into optimization rather than overclocking and the aforementioned tool is giving good gains all across the board, enough to justify a daily use. Thanks in advance 👍


I just have a bit of angst about using tuner software when having do deal with Asus AI Suite and Gigabyte's crap software. I really prefer to optimize using the BIOS, but it's not easy when that option is taken away from me. I don't overclock as a general rule, I prefer underclocking.


----------



## bmagnien

d0mmie said:


> I just have a bit of angst about using tuner software when having do deal with Asus AI Suite and Gigabyte's crap software. I really prefer to optimize using the BIOS, but it's not easy when that option is taken away from me. I don't overclock as a general rule, I prefer underclocking.


PBO2 is insanely light, and only opens and closes on startup to apply settings automatically. Literally adds 0 bloat if you set it up correctly. For all intents and purposes it's no different than a BIOS level application of settings.


----------



## Jabdah

@ D0mmie

Bit OFF Topic,
but is " angst " a danish word? thought thats german only  so we are close together: europeans..


----------



## th3illusiveman

bmagnien said:


> PBO2 is insanely light, and only opens and closes on startup to apply settings automatically. Literally adds 0 bloat if you set it up correctly. For all intents and purposes it's no different than a BIOS level application of settings.


I though PBO2 didnt automatically start on startup? Did they update it? Link? 

- Thanks


----------



## MrHoof

th3illusiveman said:


> I though PBO2 didnt automatically start on startup? Did they update it? Link?
> 
> - Thanks


Just 1 Page back. Gotta setup a Windows task shedule for startup with the correct parameters or a bat file. 


PJVol said:


> It's still here, in this post
> CoreCycler - tool for testing Curve Optimizer settings


----------



## th3illusiveman

MrHoof said:


> Just 1 Page back. Gotta setup a Windows task shedule for startup with the correct parameters or a bat file.


neat, thank you!


----------



## Mask

Running 101.8 BCLK is stable so far. Lowered RAM OC from 3733 down to 3666 to keep its original 3733 clockspeed. I don't have any SATA drives, and the old 1080 ti is probably not as sensitive to BCLK OC as 30 series. Quite happy with how easy it was to do. Couldn't boot reliably past 103 BCLK with 2133 MT/s.

As mentioned in this thread a few times before, it certainly feels like AMD locked this CPU because it would be competitive with Ryzen 7000 non 3d. Seeing 4533 MHz all core and 4634 Mhz boost below 1.2v with the -25 mV offset with PBO Tuner on windows login. Still on 1.2.0.6c. I don't think I will see any benefit updating to 1.2.0.7 since I have TPM disabled anyways.


----------



## Drengur

My Asrock board finally received a BIOS update. I noticed straight away that this processor gets hot. I have a Dark Rock Pro 4 cooler and under an all-core workload it did not manage to keep it under 85°c (I have not tried blasting all fans to the max yet). So I tried PBO Tuner. I managed to get it to work with -30 on all cores, but it seemed to be not 100% stable, as I had a crash - but it will investigate further when time allows.

I have had it running at -20 on all cores (I will tweak it when I have the time) for a few days and the temps are now always below 80 and the Cinebench 23 score is above 15.000, as it manages to boost higher for longer. I did try BCLCK of 101 but the heat went up a bit, and as I don't really need a few more percent of performance, I parked it at 100 for the time being. It is a fun little processor to play with - and I am sure to try to push it for fun in the near future.

I have doubts that a different cooler would matter that much. As I understand it, the problem is not so much with heat dissipation from the IHS, but rather "to it". Correct me if I am wrong. 

What I find really surprising is that it does heat up a bit in gaming workloads. Coming from a 3600 which never went above 50 degrees it is quite a different beast. I would like to thank everyone in this thread for their work and the amount of knowledge that is being shared here.


----------



## d0mmie

Jabdah said:


> @ D0mmie
> 
> Bit OFF Topic,
> but is " angst " a danish word? thought thats german only  so we are close together: europeans..


Indeed


----------



## BNSoul

Drengur said:


> .I have doubts that a different cooler would matter that much. As I understand it, the problem is not so much with heat dissipation from the IHS, but rather "to it". Correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> What I find really surprising is that it does heat up a bit in gaming workloads. Coming from a 3600 which never went above 50 degrees it is quite a different beast.


Yes there's a "hotspot" in the CPU package since the stacked L3 layer insulates the already warm monolithic 5800X design and it's virtually impossible to keep it cool with conventional solutions you can buy at computer shops. I mean I've seen no user hitting 65ºC or below while running R23 loops unless they're in a extremely chill room in the 0-5ºC range with an open board. Silicon quality can help but just to a certain degree (pun intended).

I can count myself lucky since with just a DRP4 with a custom config (removed fan in the middle, attached 2x Noctua 25x15 blowing from the sides and creating a current of cool air covering the CPU socket and the VRMs in its way out to the exhaust on the top, helped by a custom fan arrangement inside the case) I manage to stay below 75-76ºC at all times during heavy benchmarking in this hot summer weather and extremely rarely beyond 45-46ºC gaming at 1440p 144fps (locked when I plug my 3080 in), it's just so cool and efficient doing what's supposed to do.

I guess AMD could allow it to boost to 4550 all core below 60ºC but the performance just happened to be good enough at 4450 so they didn't bother. Stock power settings are a bit high tho, I wonder if I'm leaving gaming performance on the table when I turn them a bit down, but since I'm already limited by the refresh rate of the monitor I'm just not going to think about it much further.


----------



## domdtxdissar

BNSoul said:


> Yes there's a "hotspot" in the CPU package since the stacked L3 layer insulates the already warm monolithic 5800X design and it's virtually impossible to keep it cool with conventional solutions you can buy at computer shops. *I mean I've seen no user hitting 65ºC or below while running R23 loops unless they're in a extremely chill room in the 0-5ºC range with an open board*. Silicon quality can help but just to a certain degree (pun intended).
> 
> I can count myself lucky since with just a DRP4 with a custom config (removed fan in the middle, attached 2x Noctua 25x15 blowing from the sides and creating a current of cool air covering the CPU socket and the VRMs in its way out to the exhaust on the top, helped by a custom fan arrangement inside the case) I manage to stay below 75-76ºC at all times during heavy benchmarking in this hot summer weather and extremely rarely beyond 45-46ºC gaming at 1440p 144fps (locked when I plug my 3080 in), it's just so cool and efficient doing what's supposed to do.
> 
> I guess AMD could allow it to boost to 4550 all core below 60ºC but the performance just happened to be good enough at 4450 so they didn't bother. Stock power settings are a bit high tho, I wonder if I'm leaving gaming performance on the table when I turn them a bit down, but since I'm already limited by the refresh rate of the monitor I'm just not going to think about it much further.


Just need to look closer.. 


> First boot with my 2209 PGS
> Dont seem hard to cool at all compared to a 5950x @ above 300ppt..
> 
> Getting 67 degrees max load-temp while running Cinebench r23 at all stock settings -> 14948 points


This is what my daily 24/7 settings for the 5800x3d looked like in the end before i changed back to the 5950x (v-cache chip so boring to tweak without OC)








Above run was done in normal ambient tshirt temperature, but i'm using a large custom watercooling rig with LM on the CPU

_edit_
Dont ask my why i was testing this (long story), but i can tell you that running a single CCD at above 220w is whats really hard to cool 







With both CCD's enabled i was hitting ~105 degress @ ~360w PPT on my current cooling setup (y-cruncher BBP is much much hotter then cinebench)


----------



## BNSoul

domdtxdissar said:


> Just need to look closer..
> 
> 
> This is what my daily 24/7 settings for the 5800x3d looked like in the end before i changed back to the 5950x (v-cache chip so boring to tweak without OC)
> View attachment 2566680
> 
> Above run was done in normal ambient tshirt temperature, but i'm using a large custom watercooling rig tho


Really nice, still no 65 tho 😅 /jk that's just awesome 👍

On the other hand I did beat you by 33 points (15288) a couple of weeks ago (last time I tried R23 I believe) in the middle of Mordor I mean Spain's summer weather with a memory kit that looks like 'Fisher Price my first dual rank kit" compared to yours... on an air cooler. I hit 75º obviously but in my experience from September onwards it's easily 12-13ºC reduction in benchmarking temps.

Have fun with your awesome 5950X, my dad has a couple of those in his office but it's like trying to break through Alcatraz.


----------



## ilmazzo

What is that single radiator attached to the Mora supposed to do? Quite .... mmmm .... unusual setup!

Regarding LM I have purchased one for the first time but the more I read about it the less I'm willing to use it... I do not do often maintenance of my LC loop and since the thermal limit on a 3D is the silicon itself and the voltages are locked, well...... LM would be just useless me thinks compared to a normal good thermal paste like noctua NT-1 or similars....


----------



## domdtxdissar

BNSoul said:


> On the other hand I did beat you by 33 points (12288)


7xSata HDD's + 1xSSD's + 2xNvME's + NVIDIA graphic card will do that to you 
(locked to ~100.2mhz baseclock max)

^^ thats also why i changed back to my normal Zen3 CPU.. Much more fun when i can overclock and tweak settings/clockspeeds 



ilmazzo said:


> What is that single radiator attached to the Mora supposed to do? Quite .... mmmm .... unusual setup!


Just had it laying around so i thought it wouldn't hurt 
After those pictures were taken i have expanded the loop with a pmp 500 pump (+ the two DDC's and 2xD5's i already had) and a monsta copper 400mm rad
2x6m hoses, so i put the mora is on a other floor  (cant hear anything from it)
...And quick-connects on almost every major component -> can change cpu/gpu waterblocks without draining the loop.


----------



## ilmazzo

domdtxdissar said:


> Just had it laying around so i thought it wouldn't hurt
> After those pictures were taken i have expanded the loop with a pmp 500 pump (+ the two DDC's and 2xD5's i already had) and a monsta copper 400mm rad
> 2x6m hoses, so i put the mora is on a other floor  (cant hear anything from it)
> ...And quick-connects on almost every major component -> can change cpu/gpu waterblocks without draining the loop.


I've built my first LC loop last year with the same logic. A big 1260 external radiator with 140mm fans under my desk so I can barely hear them (if not at all) with quick connects that goes in the case so I can move it around without draining the loop. I have a single D5 inside the case. I wanted to keep it as simple as I could for a lot of reasons. I don't mind how many lts/h or the liquid temp, just check the temperatures of cpu and gpu to stay where they should and I'm done  "the less the stuff the less the faults" logic

What's your experience regarding LM? Is it really so "extreme" when it cames to drying over time?


----------



## Mask

Without the BCLK OC with -25/-30 mV per core offset, I am seeing 78C using xLODGen (Fallout 4 texture editor) at around 4.4 GHz. Once I apply the BCLK OC of 101.9 , CPU temps reach 83C and CPU will throttle down. Definitely will need a much better cooling solution at 4.5 GHz and higher than my trusty ol' D15. I have been playing around with LLC and notice CPU boost behavior happens a more with LLC enabled; at the cost of higher voltages obviously. Lowered tRFC a bit more as well, and now my RAM needs to be at 1.40v instead of 1.39v. Here is my CPU-Z, 6600 multi thread is easily attainable with multiple runs, but this is a good average:


----------



## Gorod

Highest bus clock with B550 Unify X so far 104.5 x 44.5 = 4650, higher than that and graphics card loses video output, that is with AMD (RX 6900 XT), with nVidia 3800 Ti only 102.00
Maybe with some older graphics cards will manage a little more, hopefully. 

CB23


----------



## BCB57

Gorod said:


> Highest bus clock with B550 Unify X so far 104.5 x 44.5 = 4650, higher than that and graphics card loses video output, that is with AMD (RX 6900 XT), with nVidia 3800 Ti only 102.00
> Maybe with some older graphics cards will manage a little more, hopefully.
> 
> CB23
> 
> View attachment 2566767


So you'll downgrade your GPU in pursuit of higher Cinebench scores? Well this is an overclocking forum I guess.  
I'd actually like to play with BCLK a little bit, but my Unify X570 with two SATA HDDs (internal 2TB and external 10TB for backup) will not tolerate it at all: even 100.5 led to weird behavior such as failure to wake from sleep without rebooting.


----------



## MarlowXim

I can get to 103.8 on RTX 3080 although I do ~102.8 bclk so it boots. Then in MSI Center or Dragon Power push it 103.8 in Windows. 104 seems to be the limit for my FCLK is 1833 and at this point I think its 1914 if I recall. You can try this method to see if you can push beyond 104.5. You may need to power cycle on reboot if you did not lower the bclk on before boot so just power on and off and again from PSU and it should boot.

Try doi


Gorod said:


> Highest bus clock with B550 Unify X so far 104.5 x 44.5 = 4650, higher than that and graphics card loses video output, that is with AMD (RX 6900 XT), with nVidia 3800 Ti only 102.00
> Maybe with some older graphics cards will manage a little more, hopefully.
> 
> CB23


----------



## Gorod

BCB57 said:


> So you'll downgrade your GPU in pursuit of higher Cinebench scores? Well this is an overclocking forum I guess.
> I'd actually like to play with BCLK a little bit, but my Unify X570 with two SATA HDDs (internal 2TB and external 10TB for backup) will not tolerate it at all: even 100.5 led to weird behavior such as failure to wake from sleep without rebooting.


Of course not , just to test how high it can go. This is for fun build, no work or imortant data on it. It only has one M2. PCIe 4.0 drive which i had to move to chipset link to help with bclk, with a few benches and games on it for testing purposes.




MarlowXim said:


> I can get to 103.8 on RTX 3080 although I do ~102.8 bclk so it boots. Then in MSI Center or Dragon Power push it 103.8 in Windows. 104 seems to be the limit for my FCLK is 1833 and at this point I think its 1914 if I recall. You can try this method to see if you can push beyond 104.5. You may need to power cycle on reboot if you did not lower the bclk on before boot so just power on and off and again from PSU and it should boot.
> 
> Try doi


Well, thank you very much !  Your suggestion to try out Dragon center helped reach 107 bclk while using 6900 XT for a graphics card !
Havent used MSI motherboards in ages and had no idea about Dragon software. Installed MSI Center one time and it looked like some bad bloatware, Dragon center on other hand i like it


----------



## Mask

Dragon Center is really nice, thanks for the recommendation. I tried 102.0 for fun, and went back to 101.9. Really awesome utility. Dang, it can even edit RAM timings inside Windows?


----------



## MarlowXim

Gorod said:


> Well, thank you very much !  Your suggestion to try out Dragon center helped reach 107 bclk while using 6900 XT for a graphics card !
> Havent used MSI motherboards in ages and had no idea about Dragon software. Installed MSI Center one time and it looked like some bad bloatware, Dragon center on other hand i like it


Ya they have something lighter MSI Dragon Power. You might need to test your cores again. I had to boost my core0 +15 on PBO due to instability. This is at 4.62 Mhz all-core, this is auto LLC. Not sure what is the default "auto" LLC closest to. I still haven't figured out how to get the single thread boost to work consistently, seems to be disabled once you bclk overclock on the MSI board. They might be able to fix it like Asus did if it gets enough attention or priority.

Ya I see the B550 Unify series as the best for BCLK overclocking with the 5800x3d from MSI. I tried the X570 Tomahawk and the X570 Unify and I could not get far. Best of all the SATA controller does not quit at higher bclk. I am not sure about X570S if it can tolerate higher BCLK. I just recall that on the X570 Unify i could not change the BCLK in Windows.


----------



## jvidia

How is the 5800X3D behaving in the X570S Aorus Master and with that board is it possible to OC it to 4.7 ?

I'm asking this because AM4 platform has coming to the end and will no more receive new CPU's and I'm thinking if the 5800X3D is a good option over the normal 5800X that I actually own to close the upgrades on this platform!

I've seen a lot of reviews of 5800x vs 5800X3D and it's a mixed bag of some wins and some loses. 

The folks here that will stay with the AM4 platform for a few more years, what will be your end of the line CPU ?


----------



## freedom1

Does anyone use Combo Strike on MSI boards? What level, 2 or 3?


----------



## Fight Game

jvidia said:


> The folks here that will stay with the AM4 platform for a few more years, what will be your end of the line CPU ?


You'll see better performance in many games (and games only), but not all. I upgraded from 5600x to 5800x3d and kinda regret it tbh. Yes it will last me a bit longer but I think that money would have been better spent on going towards am5


----------



## cbr600

Question for you all 5800x3d owners my old 8086k system is calling it quits motherboard doing weird stuff (USB). I did not want to go DDR5 yet as I play a game called Tarkov and this chip I have watched reviews on and it does vary well in the game as the game is vary badly coded so the cache helps a lot. Anyways I have some old DDR4 14-14-14-34 3200 g skill It will not overclock anymore 16CL 3600 nothing works I have tried on a 10600k machine and a 3700X it wont go any higher its some of the first kits so its just tapped out. My question is will it be enough or should I be looking at RAM also the ram is 32GB duel rank so there is that also. Any options would be great.


----------



## jvidia

Fight Game said:


> You'll see better performance in many games (and games only), but not all. I upgraded from 5600x to 5800x3d and kinda regret it tbh. Yes it will last me a bit longer but I think that money would have been better spent on going towards am5


Why the regret?
Going to AM5 will make everyone spend loads of cash! Cpu , mobile, ddr5 !


----------



## Mask

MarlowXim said:


> I still haven't figured out how to get the single thread boost to work consistently, seems to be disabled once you bclk overclock on the MSI board. They might be able to fix it like Asus did if it gets enough attention or priority.


May I ask what Windows Power Plan you use? I am on MSI B550 Tomahawk with 101.9 BCLK. It is reaching 4634 MHz single core boost quite often with LLC 3 and the Ryzen Balanced LowPowerv8 power plan in this thread: Ryzen Custom Power Plans for Windows 10 (Balanced and...

If I use balanced (default) or ultimate performance, I won't see single core boost.

And thanks for the MSI Dragon Power suggestion, that is definitely a lot less bloat than Dragon Center!


----------



## jvidia

Is this true?






It doesn't feel right.

2667 CL20 wins? Where's the logic?


----------



## Fight Game

jvidia said:


> Why the regret?
> Going to AM5 will make everyone spend loads of cash! Cpu , mobile, ddr5 !


The few games I'm currently playing only saw a marginal improvement. Certainly not worth the $300 difference. Edit: guess I should also say that I cap my frames at my monitors overclocked rate of 115. It stays here a little more often, but not much more


----------



## Fight Game

jvidia said:


> Is this true


Not sure if I've seen this particular video, but I've seen several on the subject. It's a pretty easy test and one you can do on the games YOU play, which is much more important


----------



## jvidia

I understand that from game to game the menory speed may not matter with the 5800x3d , but in the same game , lower mem gives better FPS is unlogic to me.


----------



## ValSidalv21

Greetings. Not long ago I got a X3D to replace my regular 5800X with and I'm trying to figure out why it is slightly underperforming at default settings.
I've seen this mentioned here and on other forums as well, but basically some CPU's are boosting about 100MHz lower then they should. Haven't found solution or good explanation why.

On a Cinebench R23 single thread run I get 4.45GHz (4.55GHz max for second here and there, but won't hold it), voltage is 1.23, temp is ~40c. On multi thread I get 4.23-4.25GHz all core boost, voltage is 1.25, temp is ~70c. Scores are in the low 1400 for ST and low 14000 for MT.

MB is ROG B550-F with the latest UEFI. On this same board the 5800X is boosting 4.85GHz with the default settings, so whatever's wrong it's only affecting the X3D.


----------



## jvidia

Any possibility of AMD officially implements/enables the Curve Optimizer "undervolt" option in a future AGESA version ?

Any leaks about this?


----------



## Jabdah

Heya,

i`ve now found me ( for the moment ) the best setup...
All Core -30 beside Core 1 - this one needs -27. Limits to 105 75 100 4550 90 0
After 6 hours of Far Cry 6 with max Details in GPU i saw a max of 58 celsius on CPU. All sys temp is low, even the RAM OCed to 3800 is getting max of 42 degrees C
GPU is always on 99% so no CPU limit is preventing the systems max FPS
Main SSD ( system drive ) M2 980Pro is getting a bit hot with 48c so far... Maybe i have to think about an active cooling for this baby  Other M2 and Sata SSD are within normal range.

Outdoor Temps are 33c Degrees atm... Room temp is 25.5c atm

Im waiting for the next days to come... Weather news are forecasting 42+c degrees the next days...

Yours Jabdah

thx for this great app ( PBOTuner2 ) without it my rig would cook in hell temps now!

Oh well. Forget the Setup) MSI Toma b550 / Amd 5800x3d / NV3070Ti MSI / and lotsa more


----------



## IamVoo

jvidia said:


> Is this true?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't feel right.
> 
> 2667 CL20 wins? Where's the logic?


Doesn't win, just doesnt make a big difference apparently. As a tarkov player every game has HUGE VARIANCE in fps, there are so many variables that affect FPS from game to game that it's almost impossible to accurately compare games. Even the same exact rig and settings will have alot of variance match to match.

I'll also go out on a limb that the 3933cl14 system probably isn't 100% stable

I honestly think the best way to bench tarkov is to monitor GPU usage, which system spends the most time at the highest% usage, assuming all video settings are the same. Even then though, weather, time of day, etc all vary match to match and all variables change the performance.


----------



## jvidia

Jabdah said:


> Heya,
> 
> i`ve now found me ( for the moment ) the best setup...
> All Core -30 beside Core 1 - this one needs -27. Limits to 105 75 100 4550 90 0
> After 6 hours of Far Cry 6 with max Details in GPU i saw a max of 58 celsius on CPU. All sys temp is low, even the RAM OCed to 3800 is getting max of 42 degrees C
> GPU is always on 99% so no CPU limit is preventing the systems max FPS
> Main SSD ( system drive ) M2 980Pro is getting a bit hot with 48c so far... Maybe i have to think about an active cooling for this baby  Other M2 and Sata SSD are within normal range.
> 
> Outdoor Temps are 33c Degrees atm... Room temp is 25.5c atm
> 
> Im waiting for the next days to come... Weather news are forecasting 42+c degrees the next days...
> 
> Yours Jabdah
> 
> thx for this great app ( PBOTuner2 ) without it my rig would cook in hell temps now!
> 
> Oh well. Forget the Setup) MSI Toma b550 / Amd 5800x3d / NV3070Ti MSI / and lotsa more


Nice!

FCLK 1900?

How do you apply the CO settings ? Manual everytime windows boot up ?


----------



## Jabdah

jvidia said:


> Nice!
> 
> FCLK 1900?
> 
> How do you apply the CO settings ? Manual everytime windows boot up ?


Heya,
Yes , FCLK 1900.
RAM Settings and the " normal " things are done in BIOS.
Rest is done with PBO2Tuner using Windows Scheduler... Works perfekt for me.

Yours jabdah


----------



## jvidia

where can I get PBO2 Tunner?

thanks!


----------



## Jabdah

jvidia said:


> where can I get PBO2 Tunner?
> 
> thanks!


here.





Debug-cli.7z







drive.google.com





Its the latest one... there is another but its beta / alpha anything 










Its in german lang, im sorry... In german its the " Aufgabenplanung " there u can plan the autorun of pbo2tuner

remember, those settings are working for me... not for all... you have to test your CPU first

To be honest, read the entire thread...


----------



## jvidia

Thank you !

Who makes this tool?


----------



## jvidia

domdtxdissar said:


> Just need to look closer..
> 
> 
> This is what my daily 24/7 settings for the 5800x3d looked like in the end before i changed back to the 5950x (v-cache chip so boring to tweak without OC)
> View attachment 2566680
> 
> Above run was done in normal ambient tshirt temperature, but i'm using a large custom watercooling rig with LM on the CPU
> 
> _edit_
> Dont ask my why i was testing this (long story), but i can tell you that running a single CCD at above 220w is whats really hard to cool
> View attachment 2566682
> 
> With both CCD's enabled i was hitting ~105 degress @ ~360w PPT on my current cooling setup (y-cruncher BBP is much much hotter then cinebench)


Why did you went to a 5950x ? can you share your decision? Do you need a workload horse?


----------



## Peanuts4

Can someone make any logical sense of this.... All of these reviewers I'm convinced are now are no better than the marketing materials provided by the manufacturers. How many of you folks went out and bought a 5800X3d because you were like WOW I'm a hardcore gamer and I'm going to get a high end CPU marketed to gamers for playing CPU intensive games...................... Like f'ing really... Notice how all these a-holes show CPU bound games? Like who the f cares go play PS5 or xbox... Do you need 500 FPS from your CPU to play Tombraider?

Now for the rest of us you know the people who throw $500-1500 for graphics cards probably want to know what these CPU's can actually benefits our systems so we can squeeze every FPS out of games/ benchmarks....

Then you throw in 1440p and 4K benchmarks into the mix and it doesn't seem to matter too much about how good one CPU is over another they all basically look the same.

Am I living in crazyville where these reviewers who talks so much about GPU's and Gamers never show us actually anything relevant??? Better upgrade your 3700X because you can't get 210+ FPS in F1, Tombraider, Witcher 3, but but but if you play a game that actually uses your GPU you have NO IDEA how it stacks up against the competition. BUT JUST HOLD ON NOW!!! Cause you play at 1440p or 4K your CPU is just as good as everything else. 🙃

Apparently with a dedicated GPU test wow thanks... Timespy...








AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D review


It's time for another ZEN3 review, this time something extra special for gamers. It's the much-discussed Ryzen 7 5800X3D. The CPU, which is on many people's radar, features eight cores and sixteen ... Performance - Dedicated GPU - Games: 3DMark Time Spy




www.guru3d.com





Not calling these guys out just as an example 1440p








AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D review


It's time for another ZEN3 review, this time something extra special for gamers. It's the much-discussed Ryzen 7 5800X3D. The CPU, which is on many people's radar, features eight cores and sixteen ... Performance - Gaming RTX 3090 - 2560x1440 (QHD)




www.guru3d.com












AMD Ryzen 9 5900X and 5950X review


We review ZEN3, the new Ryzen 9 5900X, and 5950X. Released by AMD as a new architecture that will once again attack Intel, this round with a heavy focus on your gaming performance. Overall, this pro... Performance - Gaming RTX 2080 Ti - 2560x1440 (QHD)




www.guru3d.com


----------



## edhutner

I am playing almost only one game - Assetto Corsa Competizione. And I did "downgrade" from 5900X to 5800x3d. Initially I was a bit sceptical, but after doing some real in game tests, the effect was very close to "wow". 








The ACC CPU Benchmark Thread


I´m gonna give it a try with CL 14, maybe tonight. I don´t know much about AMD CPU`s these days, my last one was a Phenom x4 940 (oc of course :)),...




www.assettocorsa.net





So I am staying with the 5800x3d.
For all other benches and tasks it's slower, but for what I need it mostly its perfect.


----------



## jvidia

Peanuts4 said:


> Can someone make any logical sense of this.... All of these reviewers I'm convinced are now are no better than the marketing materials provided by the manufacturers. How many of you folks went out and bought a 5800X3d because you were like WOW I'm a hardcore gamer and I'm going to get a high end CPU marketed to gamers for playing CPU intensive games...................... Like f'ing really... Notice how all these a-holes show CPU bound games? Like who the f cares go play PS5 or xbox... Do you need 500 FPS from your CPU to play Tombraider?
> 
> Now for the rest of us you know the people who throw $500-1500 for graphics cards probably want to know what these CPU's can actually benefits our systems so we can squeeze every FPS out of games/ benchmarks....
> 
> Then you throw in 1440p and 4K benchmarks into the mix and it doesn't seem to matter too much about how good one CPU is over another they all basically look the same.
> 
> Am I living in crazyville where these reviewers who talks so much about GPU's and Gamers never show us actually anything relevant??? Better upgrade your 3700X because you can't get 210+ FPS in F1, Tombraider, Witcher 3, but but but if you play a game that actually uses your GPU you have NO IDEA how it stacks up against the competition. BUT JUST HOLD ON NOW!!! Cause you play at 1440p or 4K your CPU is just as good as everything else. 🙃
> 
> Apparently with a dedicated GPU test wow thanks... Timespy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D review
> 
> 
> It's time for another ZEN3 review, this time something extra special for gamers. It's the much-discussed Ryzen 7 5800X3D. The CPU, which is on many people's radar, features eight cores and sixteen ... Performance - Dedicated GPU - Games: 3DMark Time Spy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.guru3d.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not calling these guys out just as an example 1440p
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D review
> 
> 
> It's time for another ZEN3 review, this time something extra special for gamers. It's the much-discussed Ryzen 7 5800X3D. The CPU, which is on many people's radar, features eight cores and sixteen ... Performance - Gaming RTX 3090 - 2560x1440 (QHD)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.guru3d.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 9 5900X and 5950X review
> 
> 
> We review ZEN3, the new Ryzen 9 5900X, and 5950X. Released by AMD as a new architecture that will once again attack Intel, this round with a heavy focus on your gaming performance. Overall, this pro... Performance - Gaming RTX 2080 Ti - 2560x1440 (QHD)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.guru3d.com


Didn't get your point .. can you resume it?


----------



## freedom1

Peanuts4 said:


> Apparently with a dedicated GPU test wow thanks... Timespy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D review
> 
> 
> It's time for another ZEN3 review, this time something extra special for gamers. It's the much-discussed Ryzen 7 5800X3D. The CPU, which is on many people's radar, features eight cores and sixteen ... Performance - Dedicated GPU - Games: 3DMark Time Spy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.guru3d.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not calling these guys out just as an example 1440p
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D review
> 
> 
> It's time for another ZEN3 review, this time something extra special for gamers. It's the much-discussed Ryzen 7 5800X3D. The CPU, which is on many people's radar, features eight cores and sixteen ... Performance - Gaming RTX 3090 - 2560x1440 (QHD)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.guru3d.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 9 5900X and 5950X review
> 
> 
> We review ZEN3, the new Ryzen 9 5900X, and 5950X. Released by AMD as a new architecture that will once again attack Intel, this round with a heavy focus on your gaming performance. Overall, this pro... Performance - Gaming RTX 2080 Ti - 2560x1440 (QHD)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.guru3d.com


Do you think the results of these tests are fake?


----------



## elbubi

Hi!

New 5800x3d user here. Discovered this thread from PBO2 Tuner (amazing app!)
I have one serious doubt: Is it expected behaviour with this proc when running single core tests to have multiple cores working at mild loads instead of only one core at 100%?

Look whats happening in my build (tested various tests, CB23, CB20, CPU-Z, OCCT, etc) and all of them outputs the same:









Thanks in advance for your help!


----------



## MrHoof

freedom1 said:


> Do you think the results of these tests are fake?


Not fake but this 5800x is terrible at timespy mine would hit 13500 CPU score this one 11715 but even then in any game when it its not GPU bottlenecked the 3d will end up ahead.

In Timespy the 5800x just performs better.

GPU OC and 5800x
AMD Radeon RX 6600 XT Grafikkarten Benchmark Resultat - AMD Ryzen 7 5800X,ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. ROG STRIX X570-I GAMING (3dmark.com)
No GPU OC and 5800x3d
AMD Radeon RX 6600 XT Grafikkarten Benchmark Resultat - AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D,ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. ROG STRIX X570-I GAMING (3dmark.com)


----------



## ninjaquick

Peanuts4 said:


> Can someone make any logical sense of this.... All of these reviewers I'm convinced are now are no better than the marketing materials provided by the manufacturers. How many of you folks went out and bought a 5800X3d because you were like WOW I'm a hardcore gamer and I'm going to get a high end CPU marketed to gamers for playing CPU intensive games...................... Like f'ing really... Notice how all these a-holes show CPU bound games? Like who the f cares go play PS5 or xbox... Do you need 500 FPS from your CPU to play Tombraider?
> 
> Now for the rest of us you know the people who throw $500-1500 for graphics cards probably want to know what these CPU's can actually benefits our systems so we can squeeze every FPS out of games/ benchmarks....
> 
> Then you throw in 1440p and 4K benchmarks into the mix and it doesn't seem to matter too much about how good one CPU is over another they all basically look the same.
> 
> Am I living in crazyville where these reviewers who talks so much about GPU's and Gamers never show us actually anything relevant??? Better upgrade your 3700X because you can't get 210+ FPS in F1, Tombraider, Witcher 3, but but but if you play a game that actually uses your GPU you have NO IDEA how it stacks up against the competition. BUT JUST HOLD ON NOW!!! Cause you play at 1440p or 4K your CPU is just as good as everything else. 🙃
> 
> Apparently with a dedicated GPU test wow thanks... Timespy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D review
> 
> 
> It's time for another ZEN3 review, this time something extra special for gamers. It's the much-discussed Ryzen 7 5800X3D. The CPU, which is on many people's radar, features eight cores and sixteen ... Performance - Dedicated GPU - Games: 3DMark Time Spy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.guru3d.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not calling these guys out just as an example 1440p
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D review
> 
> 
> It's time for another ZEN3 review, this time something extra special for gamers. It's the much-discussed Ryzen 7 5800X3D. The CPU, which is on many people's radar, features eight cores and sixteen ... Performance - Gaming RTX 3090 - 2560x1440 (QHD)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.guru3d.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 9 5900X and 5950X review
> 
> 
> We review ZEN3, the new Ryzen 9 5900X, and 5950X. Released by AMD as a new architecture that will once again attack Intel, this round with a heavy focus on your gaming performance. Overall, this pro... Performance - Gaming RTX 2080 Ti - 2560x1440 (QHD)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.guru3d.com


I've had both the 5900x PBO2'd to 5.15 and the 5800X3D.
The 5800X3D is all that and a bag of chips.
At worst it is on par. At a 600mhz deficit.
Games hugely benefit from higher cache residency. This has always been the case. When a new version of NetBurst or Merom/Conroe would release with double the cache it was ALWAYS a huge gain. Now with bigger and more complex simulations a 14ns penalty for missing repeated thousands of times starts to stack and slow things down, profile a game thread some time and see how many cycles are lost on memory ops. It isn't cheap, that's why this works.
Is it basically only good for games? Yeah. Is it bogus? No.


----------



## Luggage

jvidia said:


> I understand that from game to game the menory speed may not matter with the 5800x3d , but in the same game , lower mem gives better FPS is unlogic to me.


From r23 testing with 5800X: programs/games that fit in cache and don’t care about memory can get better boost behavior on zen because of the lower power and heat by the icm means more headroom for the cores to boost.


----------



## jvidia

ninjaquick said:


> I've had both the 5900x PBO2'd to 5.15 and the 5800X3D.
> The 5800X3D is all that and a bag of chips.
> At worst it is on par. At a 600mhz deficit.
> Games hugely benefit from higher cache residency. This has always been the case. When a new version of NetBurst or Merom/Conroe would release with double the cache it was ALWAYS a huge gain. Now with bigger and more complex simulations a 14ns penalty for missing repeated thousands of times starts to stack and slow things down, profile a game thread some time and see how many cycles are lost on memory ops. It isn't cheap, that's why this works.
> Is it basically only good for games? Yeah. Is it bogus? No.


So do you recomend the 5800X3D over the 5900X to someone that apart from ocasional gaming only uses the PC for MS Office, email, browsing and multimedia consumption?


----------



## Nd4spdvn

jvidia said:


> So do you recomend the 5800X3D over the 5900X to someone that apart from ocasional gaming only uses the PC for MS Office, email, browsing and multimedia consumption?


If it's any help, this is exactly the switch I made after owning a 5900X (tuned as best I could) for a year and a half. No regrets in any way, shape or form.  The system is perceptually as speedy as it's used to be with 5900X and apart from the productivity benches which now score less with 5800X3D, all else is very, very good. The games are seriously pushed hard or should I say the 3080ti GPU in this case. Overall all games are offering a smoother feel if not a serious performance uplift. Very happy with this switch. We may see/understand better in the next months with the new GPUs in how they will all be pushed by this little monster of a CPU.


----------



## superkyle1721

Hey guys checking back if anyone with the problem of the chip only boosting to 4.45 and low cinebench scores have solved their issue. I’m on a dark hero board. 
Things I’ve tried:
Clean windows install
Both bios versions
Various amd driver packages 
Leaving idle overnight 
Overvolting/undervolting
Static voltage
Various CO offsets (-30 all core is stable for me)
Verification of power deviation 
Setting ram to default
Bios defaults
Various tweaks to cPPC etc 
Different power options 
Different power limits 

I am on a custom loop and my temps are very good but I have never once seen it boost the single core clock speed. I’m beginning to wonder if some of these chips are defective or if something unknown is causing these chips to think it isn’t safe for it to boost. It’s frustrating since I’ve typically very savvy with figuring these things out but nothing I try seems to have an effect. Anyone with a new suggestion I’m all ears.


----------



## jvidia

superkyle1721 said:


> Hey guys checking back if anyone with the problem of the chip only boosting to 4.45 and low cinebench scores have solved their issue. I’m on a dark hero board.
> Things I’ve tried:
> Clean windows install
> Both bios versions
> Various amd driver packages
> Leaving idle overnight
> Overvolting/undervolting
> Static voltage
> Various CO offsets (-30 all core is stable for me)
> Verification of power deviation
> Setting ram to default
> Bios defaults
> Various tweaks to cPPC etc
> Different power options
> Different power limits
> 
> I am on a custom loop and my temps are very good but I have never once seen it boost the single core clock speed. I’m beginning to wonder if some of these chips are defective or if something unknown is causing these chips to think it isn’t safe for it to boost. It’s frustrating since I’ve typically very savvy with figuring these things out but nothing I try seems to have an effect. Anyone with a new suggestion I’m all ears.


I've seen some people with that issue but don't know the solution yet.


----------



## AXi0M

superkyle1721 said:


> Hey guys checking back if anyone with the problem of the chip only boosting to 4.45 and low cinebench scores have solved their issue. I’m on a dark hero board.
> Things I’ve tried:
> Clean windows install
> Both bios versions
> Various amd driver packages
> Leaving idle overnight
> Overvolting/undervolting
> Static voltage
> Various CO offsets (-30 all core is stable for me)
> Verification of power deviation
> Setting ram to default
> Bios defaults
> Various tweaks to cPPC etc
> Different power options
> Different power limits
> 
> I am on a custom loop and my temps are very good but I have never once seen it boost the single core clock speed. I’m beginning to wonder if some of these chips are defective or if something unknown is causing these chips to think it isn’t safe for it to boost. It’s frustrating since I’ve typically very savvy with figuring these things out but nothing I try seems to have an effect. Anyone with a new suggestion I’m all ears.


Clear CMOS after update? Global C-States "Enabled" instead of auto?


----------



## jvidia

superkyle1721 said:


> Hey guys checking back if anyone with the problem of the chip only boosting to 4.45 and low cinebench scores have solved their issue. I’m on a dark hero board.
> Things I’ve tried:
> Clean windows install
> Both bios versions
> Various amd driver packages
> Leaving idle overnight
> Overvolting/undervolting
> Static voltage
> Various CO offsets (-30 all core is stable for me)
> Verification of power deviation
> Setting ram to default
> Bios defaults
> Various tweaks to cPPC etc
> Different power options
> Different power limits
> 
> I am on a custom loop and my temps are very good but I have never once seen it boost the single core clock speed. I’m beginning to wonder if some of these chips are defective or if something unknown is causing these chips to think it isn’t safe for it to boost. It’s frustrating since I’ve typically very savvy with figuring these things out but nothing I try seems to have an effect. Anyone with a new suggestion I’m all ears.


After installing the 5800X3D did you reflash your bios to the latest??


----------



## elbubi

Hi guys, me again.

Today I tested the 5600 I have in my office and single core tests shows always 100% load on 1 core (fluctuating from one to another but 100% always)
In my home's 5800x3d, no core is at 100% but four a 20/30%, with the consecuent sub-boots speed.

Look at the first four cores doing the job as a team 











*¿¿¿Is this normal behaviour on this chip or something is definetely wrong on my build???*


----------



## jvidia

It's normal if you have more process running in the background when you run R23.


----------



## elbubi

jvidia said:


> It's normal if you have more process running in the background when you run R23.


I tried with none background processes and its the same, did that run with BG procceses just for taking de snap to post it here.


----------



## jvidia

Are you with a compatible bios for 5800X3D?

Did you reinstall Windows after upgrading to the 5800X3D?

Did you do a CLEAR CMOS / reflash you BIOS ?


----------



## elbubi

jvidia said:


> Are you with a compatible bios for 5800X3D?
> 
> Did you reinstall Windows after upgrading to the 5800X3D?
> 
> Did you do a CLEAR CMOS / reflash you BIOS ?


1) Yes, last version from v2803 for TUF B550M-Plus from here

2) Fresh install (would it be neccesary to reinstall otherwise?)

3) Motherboard bought alongside cpu, cmos reset after flashing last bios version.

Thanks for your help!


----------



## jvidia

elbubi said:


> 1) Yes, last version from v2803 for TUF B550M-Plus from here
> 
> 2) Fresh install (would it be neccesary to reinstall otherwise?)
> 
> 3) Motherboard bought alongside cpu, cmos reset after flashing last bios version.
> 
> Thanks for your help!


In that scenario I don't see mutch more to try.
Or it is a bios/mobo problem or something in windows.


----------



## elbubi

Thanks for your insights @jvidia 
Don't know what else to think or do really, I'm out of ideas also...
I'm thinking of doing an image of the disk and a fresh install of windows to rule that option out.
Its a PITA and a terrific lost of time, but can't rma the mobo, much less if its not certain its fault.


----------



## jonRock1992

superkyle1721 said:


> Hey guys checking back if anyone with the problem of the chip only boosting to 4.45 and low cinebench scores have solved their issue. I’m on a dark hero board.
> Things I’ve tried:
> Clean windows install
> Both bios versions
> Various amd driver packages
> Leaving idle overnight
> Overvolting/undervolting
> Static voltage
> Various CO offsets (-30 all core is stable for me)
> Verification of power deviation
> Setting ram to default
> Bios defaults
> Various tweaks to cPPC etc
> Different power options
> Different power limits
> 
> I am on a custom loop and my temps are very good but I have never once seen it boost the single core clock speed. I’m beginning to wonder if some of these chips are defective or if something unknown is causing these chips to think it isn’t safe for it to boost. It’s frustrating since I’ve typically very savvy with figuring these things out but nothing I try seems to have an effect. Anyone with a new suggestion I’m all ears.


Have you tried reverting to a 1.2.0.6.C AGESA BIOS?


----------



## lunatik

Didn't even know you can bclk oc on b550 rog strix gaming -a..(nor have i ever used it before)

Anyway, have any of you encountered really high v core (auto setting)? I almost had a heart attack when i saw 1.45v on hwinfo with very high temps on low load/idle😆

I just went with 1.21v manual for 103 bclk..

Did a quick run of time spy and fire strike with 6700xt. 14076 and 33444 both 1st spots but not too far off from 5800x-6700xt combo.


----------



## Speed Potato

I also have issued with getting 4550 single core boost on my 5800X3D. I flashed the 2 latest bios (WIN10 21H1 version 19043.1826, B550 UNIFY-X , A71 beta bios), cleared cmos a few times, enabled settings like on the first post, etc... I saw it happen only once so far, after hours of testing. I was able to use the PBO2 tuner to get all 8 cores to -30CO stable (so far) and by restricting ptt, tdc and edc I get lower temps by 5C and better all core boost. I use 122, 82, 124. removing those limits does not improve boost, all core CO of -25 -20 -15 -10 just lower all core boost.

Memory is stock XMP at 3600Mhz, did not start tweaking yet. The last thing to try would be to test on windows 11 I guess but that should not be required for the cpu to work


----------



## Jabdah

Speed Potato said:


> I also have issued with getting 4550 single core boost on my 5800X3D. I flashed the 2 latest bios (WIN10 21H1 version 19043.1826, B550 UNIFY-X , A71 beta bios), cleared cmos a few times, enabled settings like on the first post, etc... I saw it happen only once so far, after hours of testing. I was able to use the PBO2 tuner to get all 8 cores to -30CO stable (so far) and by restricting ptt, tdc and edc I get lower temps by 5C and better all core boost. I use 122, 82, 124. removing those limits does not improve boost, all core CO of -25 -20 -15 -10 just lower all core boost.
> 
> Memory is stock XMP at 3600Mhz, did not start tweaking yet. The last thing to try would be to test on windows 11 I guess but that should not be required for the cpu to work properly


thats strange , i see all cores boosting to 4550 from time to time...


----------



## jvidia

What stepping is all your 5800X3D ?


----------



## elbubi

Mine's stepping 2:


----------



## Jabdah

elbubi said:


> Mine's stepping 2:
> 
> View attachment 2567066


same here , stepping 2


----------



## BioII

domdtxdissar said:


> Just need to look closer..
> 
> 
> This is what my daily 24/7 settings for the 5800x3d looked like in the end before i changed back to the 5950x (v-cache chip so boring to tweak without OC)
> View attachment 2566680
> 
> Above run was done in normal ambient tshirt temperature, but i'm using a large custom watercooling rig with LM on the CPU
> 
> _edit_
> Dont ask my why i was testing this (long story), but i can tell you that running a single CCD at above 220w is whats really hard to cool
> View attachment 2566682
> 
> With both CCD's enabled i was hitting ~105 degress @ ~360w PPT on my current cooling setup (y-cruncher BBP is much much hotter then cinebench)





domdtxdissar said:


> Just need to look closer..
> 
> 
> This is what my daily 24/7 settings for the 5800x3d looked like in the end before i changed back to the 5950x (v-cache chip so boring to tweak without OC)
> View attachment 2566680
> 
> Above run was done in normal ambient tshirt temperature, but i'm using a large custom watercooling rig with LM on the CPU
> 
> _edit_
> Dont ask my why i was testing this (long story), but i can tell you that running a single CCD at above 220w is whats really hard to cool
> View attachment 2566682
> 
> With both CCD's enabled i was hitting ~105 degress @ ~360w PPT on my current cooling setup (y-cruncher BBP is much much hotter then cinebench)


Hi I don't know if you can help me here but for some reason, I can't do 3800 and 1900 on my 570 unify-x max in 1.2.0.7, I go below that, or after 3800/1900. I tied 3 different rams sticks and had no luck.


----------



## superkyle1721

AXi0M said:


> Clear CMOS after update? Global C-States "Enabled" instead of auto?


Oh yeah cleared CMOS even did the usb load of bios. Tried the latest bios and the original for the 5800x3d. The 06 and 07 bios. Tried ever combination possible of c states cppc etc. To me it’s either a chip issue or bios. I’m leaning toward bios. Those that have the problem I’m curious what board you are using. Maybe we can start to correlate the answer from that.

I’ll check my stepping when home from work


----------



## elbubi

superkyle1721 said:


> Oh yeah cleared CMOS even did the usb load of bios. Tried the latest bios and the original for the 5800x3d. The 06 and 07 bios. Tried ever combination possible of c states cppc etc. To me it’s either a chip issue or bios. I’m leaning toward bios. Those that have the problem I’m curious what board you are using. Maybe we can start to correlate the answer from that.
> 
> I’ll check my stepping when home from work


MOBO: ASUS TUF B550M-PLUS (Wi-Fi) => Stepping 2 (VRM-B2) => Not boosting on single core, not achieving 100% load on single core (single core tests are distributed into 2C/4T), as posted here


----------



## IamVoo

Peanuts4 said:


> Can someone make any logical sense of this.... All of these reviewers I'm convinced are now are no better than the marketing materials provided by the manufacturers. How many of you folks went out and bought a 5800X3d because you were like WOW I'm a hardcore gamer and I'm going to get a high end CPU marketed to gamers for playing CPU intensive games...................... Like f'ing really... Notice how all these a-holes show CPU bound games? Like who the f cares go play PS5 or xbox... Do you need 500 FPS from your CPU to play Tombraider?
> 
> Now for the rest of us you know the people who throw $500-1500 for graphics cards probably want to know what these CPU's can actually benefits our systems so we can squeeze every FPS out of games/ benchmarks....
> 
> Then you throw in 1440p and 4K benchmarks into the mix and it doesn't seem to matter too much about how good one CPU is over another they all basically look the same.
> 
> Am I living in crazyville where these reviewers who talks so much about GPU's and Gamers never show us actually anything relevant??? Better upgrade your 3700X because you can't get 210+ FPS in F1, Tombraider, Witcher 3, but but but if you play a game that actually uses your GPU you have NO IDEA how it stacks up against the competition. BUT JUST HOLD ON NOW!!! Cause you play at 1440p or 4K your CPU is just as good as everything else. 🙃


wat?
this is bait right

I literally upgraded from a 5800x to a 5800x3D. I've got a 240hz monitor to drive and in games like tarkov which Im currently playing I'm getting 50%+ more fps. I don't play single player games, I'm a competitive gamer and most online games benefit waaaay more than optimized single player games from this cpu. 


I don't care about graphics fidelity, I care about fps and visual clarity, I play most games on low and because of that even at 1440p im no where near fps capped and having a faster processor utilizes the gpu more and pumps out more fps. I


----------



## BNSoul

It might be a bit silly but I can't find anywhere which effective clock can be considered "normal" when a single core is boosting, for instance for a workload such as Pi mod XS 1.5. Does anyone remember? I get between 4536-4540 MHz effective at stock settings (nominal clock reporting 4550).


----------



## pR1maL

superkyle1721 said:


> Oh yeah cleared CMOS even did the usb load of bios. Tried the latest bios and the original for the 5800x3d. The 06 and 07 bios. Tried ever combination possible of c states cppc etc. To me it’s either a chip issue or bios. I’m leaning toward bios. Those that have the problem I’m curious what board you are using. Maybe we can start to correlate the answer from that.
> 
> I’ll check my stepping when home from work


x3d here, running in an MSI X570s Carbon EK X. My config is stable 24/7 running 100/1900/1900/1900. But, I've never seen it hit 4550. 
That is, until I just finished a bios flash and accidently entered windows with bios defaults. Then for the first time I noticed it running 4550 on at least one core during light workloads.
So I set 100/1900/1900/1900 with all my memory timings, entered windows, it wouldn't hit 4550 again.
Went back into the bios, decided change only 100/1800/1800/1800, entered windows, it hits 4550 on at least one core again.


----------



## jvidia

pR1maL said:


> x3d here, running in an MSI X570s Carbon EK X. My config is stable 24/7 running 100/1900/1900/1900. But, I've never seen it hit 4550.
> That is, until I just finished a bios flash and accidently entered windows with bios defaults. Then for the first time I noticed it running 4550 on at least one core during light workloads.
> So I set 100/1900/1900/1900 with all my memory timings, entered windows, it wouldn't hit 4550 again.
> Went back into the bios, decided change only 100/1800/1800/1800, entered windows, it hits 4550 on at least one core again.


Sorry but what are this values "100/1800/1800/1800" ?


----------



## superkyle1721

jvidia said:


> Sorry but what are this values "100/1800/1800/1800" ?


Judging by the values I’m guess bclk and fclk/ram etc. that said I’ve tried booting into windows with everything default and still never have seen the elusive 4.55


----------



## Fight Game

stepping 2 here as well. no boosting issues


----------



## jvidia

superkyle1721 said:


> Judging by the values I’m guess bclk and fclk/ram etc. that said I’ve tried booting into windows with everything default and still never have seen the elusive 4.55


So in that case, it looks like the CPU only boosts to 4.55 with FCLK < 1900. Weird.


----------



## Blameless

Peanuts4 said:


> Notice how all these a-holes show CPU bound games?


Why would anyone bother comparing CPUs in GPU bound scenarios? So they can can have piece of perfunctory click-bait where every bar on the graph is the same?

Personally, I don't upgrade components that aren't likely to be the limiting factor in what I'm doing. I bought a 5800X3D to handle those games where I was CPU (or memory subsystem) bound at the settings I was typically playing. I have a whole stack of niche titles (most of them UE4) that aren't GPU bound at 1440p ultra, and a few that aren't always GPU bound even at 4k. Many of these titles are dramatically faster on this 

Again, if I was seeing high GPU load at my preferred settings, I wouldn't have upgraded the CPU.

This is Space Hulk: Deathwing on my 5800X (non-3D) paired with a 2.6GHz 6800 XT at 1440p:









The 5800X3D, dropped into the same system, is almost 40% faster in the same sorts of fights.


----------



## loki_toki

superkyle1721 said:


> Oh yeah cleared CMOS even did the usb load of bios. Tried the latest bios and the original for the 5800x3d. The 06 and 07 bios. Tried ever combination possible of c states cppc etc. To me it’s either a chip issue or bios. I’m leaning toward bios. Those that have the problem I’m curious what board you are using. Maybe we can start to correlate the answer from that.
> 
> I’ll check my stepping when home from work


asrock b550 steel legend, latest BIOS agesa, cleared CMOS after update, can see 4550 only with corecycler, otherwise even on light loads/idle it won't boost over 4450


----------



## BNSoul

loki_toki said:


> asrock b550 steel legend, latest BIOS agesa, cleared CMOS after update, can see 4550 only with corecycler, otherwise even on light loads/idle it won't boost over 4450


Have you already tried boost tester (by overclocker Mannix) ?

download here: Boost Tester Mannix

it goes testing one core at a time, if you use Ryzen Master you can immediately see the effective speed (nominal 4550, effective ranging anywhere 4536-4539 in stock mode, no overclocking)

you should see something like this











and then on the next one (I took these screenshots at different times while testing voltage curves)










4539 is more or less the max effective speed at stock (no overclock), even though I've seen as high as 4543 but those were brief outliers on best cores, anyways this is always reflected in monitoring software including Afterburner as "4550".

can you share a pic of what you see when running the app?


----------



## BNSoul

Big latency gain when overclocking my mediocre RAM kit to 3800 (FCLK 1900 1:1), I couldn't do this with my other Zen 3 CPUs, not to mention Zen 2. This is stable (validated overnight) but it doesn't help much in games as it does with non-3D parts, we knew this already.


----------



## pR1maL

jvidia said:


> So in that case, it looks like the CPU only boosts to 4.55 with FCLK < 1900. Weird.


So I experimented a bit more, and it seems that on my system the boost clocks are limited with CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled.
I thought it was the mclk/fclk/uclk being above 1800, but that wasn't it. I have it back at 1900/1900/1900 now.
I did try bclk at 101 and 102. Didn't spend much time with it, but 102 doesn't post. 101 is nice though.


----------



## loki_toki

BNSoul said:


> Have you already tried boost tester (by overclocker Mannix) ?


yeah my bad, it's boost tester, not corecycler.
The only time I see 4550mhz is with boost tester, but in any other scenario (games, light loads, cb single thread, ecc..) it doesn't go over 4450. all that with hwinfo polling rate set to 200ms.
i don't think that's how it should work, because otherwise on 95% of the scenarios the cpu won't boost at 4550..


----------



## superkyle1721

I just did some testing using boost tester. Cleared CMOS loaded bios 1.2.0.6b and boot into windows with all defaults. Even still I got no boost. From there I checked every combination of recommended bios modifications and still no boost. I then loaded 1.2.0.7 replicating the same test and once again no result for 4550. I do run windows 11 so I'm curious if there is something there. It doesn't seem to follow any MB manufacture so its either chip related or possibly a windows 10 vs 1 item. Is there anyone on windows 11 able to achieve the 4550?


----------



## jvidia

Could it be the power plan you have on windows 11?


----------



## Nd4spdvn

superkyle1721 said:


> Is there anyone on windows 11 able to achieve the 4550?


Works fine here on a machine upgraded last year from Win10 to 11 while I was having a 5900X, so not a clean Win11 install. All cores are boosting to 4.55Ghz (or rather 4.536-4.541Ghz to be precise) using boost tester app. B550 Aorus Pro V2, Agesa 1207.


----------



## BHS1975

superkyle1721 said:


> I just did some testing using boost tester. Cleared CMOS loaded bios 1.2.0.6b and boot into windows with all defaults. Even still I got no boost. From there I checked every combination of recommended bios modifications and still no boost. I then loaded 1.2.0.7 replicating the same test and once again no result for 4550. I do run windows 11 so I'm curious if there is something there. It doesn't seem to follow any MB manufacture so its either chip related or possibly a windows 10 vs 1 item. Is there anyone on windows 11 able to achieve the 4550?


Mine is on Win 11 and boosts to 4550.


----------



## jvidia

BHS1975 said:


> Mine is on Win 11 and boosts to 4550.


In any particular test?


----------



## BNSoul

Nd4spdvn said:


> Works fine here on a machine upgraded last year from Win10 to 11 while I was having a 5900X, so not a clean Win11 install. All cores are boosting to 4.55Ghz (or rather 4.536-4.541Ghz to be precise) using boost tester app. B550 Aorus Pro V2, Agesa 1207.


so do you get sustained 4541 boosting (stock 100MHz BCLK) ? I see up to 4543 on mine but it's just brief, normally I get sustained 4539.



loki_toki said:


> yeah my bad, it's boost tester, not corecycler.
> The only time I see 4550mhz is with boost tester, but in any other scenario (games, light loads, cb single thread, ecc..) it doesn't go over 4450. all that with hwinfo polling rate set to 200ms.
> i don't think that's how it should work, because otherwise on 95% of the scenarios the cpu won't boost at 4550..


so your CPU is actually boosting as evidenced by Boost Tester.
games: if they're using several cores (which is commonplace nowadays) you are not going to see any boost to 4550 except from some menus, loading screens and such. I use global C states on AUTO since I'm not doing any BCLK overclock so far.

light loads: same, if they are light but multi-threaded using 2 or more cores then you're rarely to observe any boost there.

CB Single thread test: definitely, here you should be seeing boosting but a tad lower than max boost (4537-39 instead of 40ish)

HWInfo: if you set an aggressive polling rate then the app will be using CPU cycles across the different cores so you'll get even lower boosts, but you should still see them.

Also it's not necessarily just one core boosting, you can easily check CPU-Z boosting two cores at the same time while performing the ST test. You can observe such behavior with Ryzen Master while running the benchmark.

I get boosting on Windows to nominal 4550 just by opening apps (event viewer, settings, taskbar, file manager, even the calculator, mostly anything really...). Also most games also boost during their boot up sequence or in main menu.

Are you using a voltage curve ? If it's not set up according to the particularities of each core it may negatively impact the boosting algorithm.


----------



## elbubi

loki_toki said:


> The only time I see 4550mhz is with boost tester


Same here, only situation when I saw 4550 was with BoostTesterMannix.
But not only that, its the only scenario where I have seen one core only fully loaded at 100%. In CB or any other single core bench, single core test utilizes 2C/4T, so core loads does not even reach 30%, hence not boosting (see here for reference). In multi-threaded tests, all core boost to 4450, which I guess its just fine as 4550 is for single core boost.


----------



## BHS1975

jvidia said:


> In any particular test?


Nope just when I'm looking at hw info after bootup.


----------



## jvidia

Side note ... 

The 5800X 3D is SOLD OUT almost everywhere! It's selling like hot cakes.

This CPU will make the next generation of video cards shine because even with the actual top tier cards, the 5800X 3D is not the bottleneck !

This CPU will last many years in gaming.

It's an "anomaly" in the CPU world like the 1080Ti was to the video cards world back in 2017 that still runs well today.


----------



## BNSoul

jvidia said:


> The 5800X 3D is SOLD OUT almost everywhere! It's selling like hot cakes.


Well I'd imagine they don't want this CPU to compete against Zen 4, I mean one is a simple drop-in upgrade and the other involves purchasing basically a full PC. Of course Zen 4 will destroy Zen 3D productivity wise (a blood bath really) but they will be pretty much even in gaming. In Spain we leave work PCs at the workplace unless you're a freelance working from home so most ppl just want a nice gaming rig with basic multitasking and fast web browsing capabilities.

Also yeah, I noticed it's still in stock here (main outlets) but the price increased from 459-489€ to 510€... meaning it's selling well and/or short term stock availability is not looking great.


----------



## Nd4spdvn

BNSoul said:


> so do you get sustained 4541 boosting (stock 100MHz BCLK) ? I see up to 4543 on mine but it's just brief, normally I get sustained 4539.


Pretty much, with a slight hint of stretching ~ 3Mhz as per this pic taken after some boost tester action:









+1 as you describe in your second part of your post, I think it's how AMD designed this proc in the first place. In my opinion, as a gaming CPU, this boosting behavior or rather fixed clocks approach to 4.45Ghz may actually be desirable for frametime stability and smoothness and therefore intentional on AMD side. I actually wish to not see the CPU downclock at all to base freq of 3.7GHz while in gaming. Best just to keep its 4.45GHz clocks (or higher lol) as long as there is no actual meaningful boost to higher than 4.45Ghz...


----------



## jvidia

Lets hope for some BIOS that could bring some changes in that department.


----------



## superkyle1721

jvidia said:


> Could it be the power plan you have on windows 11?


I can say I’ve tried performance, balanced and ultimate but I honestly have no idea what it could be. Almost want to buy another chip to test.


----------



## MrHoof

elbubi said:


> Same here, only situation when I saw 4550 was with BoostTesterMannix.
> But not only that, its the only scenario where I have seen one core only fully loaded at 100%. In CB or any other single core bench, single core test utilizes 2C/4T, so core loads does not even reach 30%, hence not boosting (see here for reference). In multi-threaded tests, all core boost to 4450, which I guess its just fine as 4550 is for single core boost.


Mine does not do that nothing special about my setup only RAM OC setup in bios and CO with PBO2tuner. Flucates from 1 core to another if it gets to warm.
Win10 with latest Chipset driver and 1207.


----------



## AXi0M

It took a while but finally got my 4x8 B-Die dialed in stable [email protected] 1.5v....was trying to get my TRCD lower but no luck.


----------



## BNSoul

Nd4spdvn said:


> Pretty much, with a slight hint of stretching ~ 3Mhz as per this pic taken after some boost tester action:
> View attachment 2567226


Nice so which motherboard, RAM and cooler are you using? Since the real world performance difference between 4537 (the minimum effective clock I've seen while boosting) and 4539 (usually sustained) is essentially 0,004 so then I intended to achieve consistent all-core effective clocks with no disparity. I ended up with a CO yielding pretty much 4538 for every core except core 0 which will rarely drop from 4539 with spikes to 4540+











Also, I heard on some Spanish tech podcast discussing the use of voltage curves they said that in ideal conditions after a CineB R23 single core test with 0% throttling, 0% help from motherboard algorithms that detect and boost single core speeds and 0% background task interruptions the max score should be 1492 for a 5800X3D running at default 100.0MHz base clock.

With the CO I use and making sure all motherboard shenanigans are disabled I got 1493 😅










Also, on a side note, I have a friend who can't make his 5800X3D engage 1900 IF Clock no matter what, it cannot do -30 all core either, even when using the best x570 mb and fastest RAM available. I told him to let me check it so I installed that on my testing PC and made sure it was 1:1 with my 5800X3D, and yeah his CPU throws a bunch of WHEA event errors and random reboots when running somewhat intensive tasks from -28 to -30 all core, it can actually boot 1900 IFClK but cannot be validated. A shame there's no replacement for it since AMD just guarantees 3200MHz RAM and of course nothing but stock operation (no PBO2 tuner).

The only difference I can observe between his unlucky 5800X3D and my lucky sample is that his unlucky CPU is a BR 2209 manufacture and mine is a bit earlier BR 2207. So there's silicon lottery after all.


----------



## Fight Game

good thing ram speed doesnt make much difference at all with this cpu


----------



## BNSoul

Fight Game said:


> good thing ram speed doesnt make much difference at all with this cpu


Well there's ppl here fighting for every last drop of performance (as they should as OC enthusiasts, I wish I had the resources to buy all the fancy motherboards, cooling solutions, 4000MT/s RAM etc) and there's indeed some performance to be gained at FCLK 1:1 with the highest bandwidth memory available.

However, with my pleb DDR4 kits running at (100% validated) 3800MT/s 1:1 with 1900 FCLK I gain nothing but a couple of frames at most at 1440p gaming, so I decided to settle with 3734 (1:1 1867 FCLK) just to loosen voltages up and gain around 2ºC back at peak performance (whilst preventing possible deterioration over time).


----------



## lestatdk

My CPU can do 2000 IF 1:1 . Unfortunately I can't utilize it since I get better performance with 4 sticks at 3866 MHz, compared to 2 sticks at 4000 MHz. Which is fortunate since I need 32 GB memory


----------



## Nd4spdvn

BNSoul said:


> Nice so which motherboard, RAM and cooler are you using?


Also an Aorus owner here but in a B550 flavor. So, nothing fancy, B550 Aorus Pro V2 Agesa 1207, Noctua NH-D15, 4 x 8GB Viper Steel B-Die 4400C19 running at 3800MT C15 in an open bench setup. I still think, though, that I don't have complete control on my mobo as Gigabyte hides things in BIOS. For instance, Power Reporting Deviation when running a Cinebench23 is at 85-89%, which means the mobo is undereporting power, thus kinda cheating in a way and possibly throwing more volts than necessary at the CPU. I was never able to reach 15K in C23 my max is 14664 points possibly as a consequence of the undereported power and higher voltage than necessary which makes the CPU to throttle under the max 4.45GHz. I would like to be able to control this mobo aspect, but, sadly there is no setting in BIOS to help in this regard.


----------



## BNSoul

Nd4spdvn said:


> I still think, though, that I don't have complete control on my mobo as Gigabyte hides things in BIOS. For instance, Power Reporting Deviation when running a Cinebench23 is at 85-89%, which means the mobo is undereporting power, thus kinda cheating in a way and possibly throwing more volts than necessary at the CPU. I was never able to reach 15K in C23 my max is 14664 points possibly as a consequence of the undereported power and higher voltage than necessary which makes the CPU to throttle under the max 4.45GHz. I would like to be able to control this mobo aspect, but, sadly there is no setting in BIOS to help in this regard.


You have a nice setup 

A shame about the power reporting issues tho, on a simple X570 Elite I'm getting 101.8% report at full load (CB runs), idk if you're using PBO2 Tuner in order to keep that throttling under control?

edit: it seems you're indeed running -30 all-core, are your power limits set to 114 75 115 when running Cinebench? That could do the trick, or maybe the CPU is being fed some extra voltage from the VRMs? I rarely hit over 76ºC while benching (40-55 while gaming) but then again for most games I use 122 82 124 with a custom curve making sure there's no clock stretching.


----------



## Mask

I am not sure why sometimes the single core boost doesn't happen. I wasn't seeing single core boost of 4.635 GHz with the 101.9 BCLK for the past couple days. I went into BIOS, and enabled CPPC preferred cores (not recommended in OP). Booted back, and now single threaded boost works fine.

But why did single thread boost just randomly stop working for me? I feel like something else is causing it to stop working. Using LLC 3 is putting voltages pretty high. I can probably lower that.










Edit: I just tried LLC 6 and no LLC, and I did not see 4.6 GHz spikes as often. Is the high voltage helping the CPU boost? I might lower my PPT/EDC/TDC since I cannot sustain 4.5 GHz all core with the D15 when under max load.
Edit 2: Using PBO2 Tuner to limit PPT/EDC/TDC is absolutely worth it. I was gimping my performance using default values. Thermals are far lower at max load with little performance loss. Page 79 post 1562 for reference on how to use it with Task Scheduler.


----------



## Nd4spdvn

BNSoul said:


> it seems you're indeed running -30 all-core, are your power limits set to 114 75 115 when running Cinebench? That could do the trick, or maybe the CPU is being fed some extra voltage from the VRMs? I rarely hit over 76ºC while benching (40-55 while gaming) but then again for most games I use 122 82 124 with a custom curve making sure there's no clock stretching.


Thanks. Power limits are still the fused socket limits (142W, 95A TDC, 140A EDC) as when I tried various different levels and combinations I lost performance in all cases. However, I just tried your suggested 114 75 115 and that got me to 14740 points so a slight increase which is... progress, I guess.  Still, the power reporting hovered between 87-89%. The temps were 81.5C with the fused limits and 80C with 114 75 115, open bench setup in an air conditioned room at 24C. I wish my mobo would offer a vcore offset for the 5800X3D (it does on other CPUs and I used it on the 5900X I had in the same setup). -20mv or so would probably fix the voltage/power reporting issue.


----------



## Blameless

Stock power limits, no voltage offset, and -30 all core CO gives me ~1493 single core ~15157 multi-core in Cinebench R23.


----------



## BNSoul

yep I always get 1492 or 1493, it's what they said (the max result in ideal conditions at stock 100.0MHz BCLK)
and now a R23 run I just did....












so the screenshot above, moments ago I did a Cinebench R23 run but this time I loaded my profile for DDR3800 (1:1 FCLK 1900), and guess what, 1492 again !! (sometimes I get 1493 like previous run I posted here) it's like the silicon limit as they said in the 5800X3D review, between 1492 and 1493. I also got 15240 multi-core which is alright I guess, I've scored 15300-ish with DDR3600 though, variance etc.

Interesting that I'm not over 74ºC when running on air cooling (custom Dark Rock Pro 4 -based rather original air cooling solution designed and implemented by my father, electric engineer) and it's easily 27ºC in my room and 34ºC outside in the middle of the Spanish summer heat. Effective clocks are great with C0 T0 being "perfect" at 4450, I have my reservations but this is the best core of the CPU. The thing is when I run my DDR43800 profile (for my middle of the road RAM kit) power deviation report increases from 102 to 104% at peak load & performance so I guess with a BIOS option for voltage offset I could get increased performance (and obviously higher temps?). I'm looking forward to September when temps in my area get cut in half so I can see the impact.

All in all it's obviously a good CPU sample and I feel somewhat bad for my friend's 5800X3D BR 2209 which cannot do 1900 (can do 1866) nor -30 all-core either (max -27 with best cores -24 according to our testing). Mine is BR 2207 but they don't change manufacturing process and/or materials in weeks, months or a full year, it's just silicon lottery with a higher percentage of "winning tickets" due to the new stepping / revision.


----------



## BHS1975

BNSoul said:


> yep I always get 1492 or 1493, it's what they said (the max result in ideal conditions at stock 100.0MHz BCLK)
> and now a R23 run I just did....
> 
> 
> View attachment 2567424
> 
> 
> 
> so the screenshot above, moments ago I did a Cinebench R23 run but this time I loaded my profile for DDR3800 (1:1 FCLK 1900), and guess what, 1492 again !! (sometimes I get 1493 like previous run I posted here) it's like the silicon limit as they said in the 5800X3D review, between 1492 and 1493. I also got 15240 multi-core which is alright I guess, I've scored 15300-ish with DDR3600 though, variance etc.
> 
> Interesting that I'm not over 74ºC when running on air cooling (custom Dark Rock Pro 4 -based rather original air cooling solution designed and implemented by my father, electric engineer) and it's easily 27ºC in my room and 34ºC outside in the middle of the Spanish summer heat. Effective clocks are great with C0 T0 being "perfect" at 4450, I have my reservations but this is the best core of the CPU. The thing is when I run my DDR43800 profile (for my middle of the road RAM kit) power deviation report increases from 102 to 104% at peak load & performance so I guess with a BIOS option for voltage offset I could get increased performance (and obviously higher temps?). I'm looking forward to September when temps in my area get cut in half so I can see the impact.
> 
> All in all it's obviously a good CPU sample and I feel somewhat bad for my friend's 5800X3D BR 2209 which cannot do 1900 (can do 1866) nor -30 all-core either (max -27 with best cores -24 according to our testing). Mine is BR 2207 but they don't change manufacturing process and/or materials in weeks, months or a full year, it's just silicon lottery with a higher percentage of "winning tickets" due to the new stepping / revision.


Would you mine posting a pic of the fan setup on your DRP4?


----------



## BNSoul

BHS1975 said:


> Would you mine posting a pic of the fan setup on your DRP4?


yes absolutely, going to take the pics and edit this post in a couple of secs, let me remove the side panels for clarity (it's almost 2 in the morning here).

edit: here are the pics, night mode smartphone camera post-processing makes some of the front plate of the DRP4 look brownish. So my father took the middle fan out, changed the airflow of the rear fan in the case so it would blow air inside, he attached a high speed Noctua A12x25 to the back of the DRP4 blowing air into it coming straight from the aforementioned case fan which was reversed, then he placed two Silent Wings 3 high-speed 120mm on the very top in the case mesh blowing also air inside creating a considerable current (so in total, 2 fans on the DRP4, one on each side + 2 on the top mesh of the case + 1 at case rear supporting and 2 on the front of the case), it creates a considerable current of air that cools the VRMs, the memory banks and, obviously with no fan in the middle, it literally bathes the CPU going down into the PSU which is pulling air out and a cut in the side panel that helps exhausting the flow in its way out. He literally saved me from the trouble of water cooling the 5800X3D, this week we're replacing some of the fans with new 3000 rpm Silent Wings pro 4.





















----------------------------------------------------------+ +
---------------------------------------------COOL AIR--+ +
----------------------------------------------------------v v
----------------------------------------------------------v v
COOL AIR ++++>> COOL AIR +++>>>> DRP4 TOWER <<<++++ COOL AIR <<<<+++++
--------------------------------------------------------+ + +
--------------------------------------------------------v v v
--------------------------------------------------------GPU x3 FAN
--------------------------------------------------------+ + +
--------------------------------------------------------v v v

PSU EXHAUST + Side panel cut to help the flow in its way out

So his idea was creating the right turbulence making cool air going fast into the dual tower DRP4 from both sides and the top and then pushed to the CPU going quickly down to the very bottom of the case where it flows outside. For that, he took the middle DRP4 fan out.


----------



## Alemancio

BNSoul said:


> View attachment 2567431
> 
> 
> View attachment 2567432
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------+ +
> ---------------------------------------------COOL AIR--+ +
> ----------------------------------------------------------v v
> ----------------------------------------------------------v v
> COOL AIR ++++>> COOL AIR +++>>>> DRP4 TOWER <<<++++ COOL AIR <<<<+++++
> --------------------------------------------------------+ + +
> --------------------------------------------------------v v v
> --------------------------------------------------------GPU x3 FAN
> --------------------------------------------------------+ + +
> --------------------------------------------------------v v v


Technically, its against Laws of thermodynamics to use top fans as intake and bottoms as exhaust, since hot air raises. If it works for you, then by all means use that config, but I doubt its the most optimal setup.

Suerte!


----------



## BNSoul

Alemancio said:


> Technically, its against Laws of thermodynamics to use top fans as intake and bottoms as exhaust, since hot air raises. If it works for you, then by all means use that config, but I doubt its the most optimal setup.
> 
> Suerte!


Yeah I thought the same until I checked the temps. First of all there's no hot air at all, there's no buildup, it doesn't have the time as it's being cooled faster than it usually warms up. Just turns out that the engineer knows best, with enough air pressure and the help of the DRP4 front plate that serves to make the cool air stream bounce off it (while cooling the entire structure of the dual tower design) so it gets pushed back through the tight space (left by the absent fan) building pressure and landing into the CPU socket and the VRM area, where it is pushed down quickly by the stream coming from the top also helping the GPU exhaust. I saw my father spending a couple of days calculating the volume of air moved by the fans, the resistance imposed by the DRP4 construction and the space between the different elements. As you already know thermodynamics indicate the temperature the air needs to be in order to start raising, but what if you don't reach it or barely approach it, the only thing warming up is this hot spot in the 5800X3D CPUs where the dies interpose that hits high temp quickly and also cools off even quicker, the CPU package itself isn't even warm to the touch. The DRP4 structure is also always cool to the touch, the chipset is 12C cooler than before, the CPU is 12-14C cooler than before. That's all the thermodynamics I need to know.

Thanks a lot for wishing me luck, yo también te deseo suerte 😄

edit: screenshots of the "hot air raising"

26ºC CPU temp idle Windows 11, in Spain, in the summer weather...











barely 40ºC 120 fps 1440p ray-traced Tomb Raider extensively using the "hot" cache layer










and a quick run of CB20 before eating my breakfast, no throttling at all, scores hitting the performance ceiling of a 5800X3D running at 100.0Mhz no-overclocking.










so much for the hot air raising, I can tell you there isn't any, I think I'm going to give my father and his 30 years of expertise at a leading company in the industry the benefit of the doubt, does it look ugly? yes, it's a dark rock and a bunch of fans, is it suboptimal? nope, it is performing the same as a water-cooling setup. For half the money and zero worries with regard to the circuit leaking. To me this is creative (thinking about the front plate of the DRP4 and the vent in the middle when you take out the fan, and designing a cooling solution around that based on air pressures and volumes). This is a top notch job.


----------



## BNSoul

5800X3D going for 399 bucks at Newegg with a promo checkout code. Amazon also putting it on sale, most European outlets have shaved 30€ off last week pricing.


----------



## Fight Game

Alemancio said:


> Technically, its against Laws of thermodynamics to use top fans as intake and bottoms as exhaust, since hot air raises. If it works for you, then by all means use that config, but I doubt its the most optimal setup.
> 
> Suerte!


in such a small space, the tiniest of fans can completely remove this


----------



## BHS1975

BNSoul said:


> yes absolutely, going to take the pics and edit this post in a couple of secs, let me remove the side panels for clarity (it's almost 2 in the morning here).
> 
> edit: here are the pics, night mode smartphone camera post-processing makes some of the front plate of the DRP4 look brownish. So my father took the middle fan out, changed the airflow of the rear fan in the case so it would blow air inside, he attached a high speed Noctua A12x25 to the back of the DRP4 blowing air into it coming straight from the aforementioned case fan which was reversed, then he placed two Silent Wings 3 high-speed 120mm on the very top in the case mesh blowing also air inside creating a considerable current (so in total, 2 fans on the DRP4, one on each side + 2 on the top mesh of the case + 1 at case rear supporting and 2 on the front of the case), it creates a considerable current of air that cools the VRMs, the memory banks and, obviously with no fan in the middle, it literally bathes the CPU going down into the PSU which is pulling air out and a cut in the side panel that helps exhausting the flow in its way out. He literally saved me from the trouble of water cooling the 5800X3D, this week we're replacing some of the fans with new 3000 rpm Silent Wings pro 4.
> 
> View attachment 2567431
> 
> 
> View attachment 2567432
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------+ +
> ---------------------------------------------COOL AIR--+ +
> ----------------------------------------------------------v v
> ----------------------------------------------------------v v
> COOL AIR ++++>> COOL AIR +++>>>> DRP4 TOWER <<<++++ COOL AIR <<<<+++++
> --------------------------------------------------------+ + +
> --------------------------------------------------------v v v
> --------------------------------------------------------GPU x3 FAN
> --------------------------------------------------------+ + +
> --------------------------------------------------------v v v
> 
> PSU EXHAUST + Side panel cut to help the flow in its way out
> 
> So his idea was creating the right turbulence making cool air going fast into the dual tower DRP4 from both sides and the top and then pushed to the CPU going quickly down to the very bottom of the case where it flows outside. For that, he took the middle DRP4 fan out.


 Sweet setup. Thanks.


----------



## BHS1975

BNSoul said:


> Yeah I thought the same until I checked the temps. First of all there's no hot air at all, there's no buildup, it doesn't have the time as it's being cooled faster than it usually warms up. Just turns out that the engineer knows best, with enough air pressure and the help of the DRP4 front plate that serves to make the cool air stream bounce off it (while cooling the entire structure of the dual tower design) so it gets pushed back through the tight space (left by the absent fan) building pressure and landing into the CPU socket and the VRM area, where it is pushed down quickly by the stream coming from the top also helping the GPU exhaust. I saw my father spending a couple of days calculating the volume of air moved by the fans, the resistance imposed by the DRP4 construction and the space between the different elements. As you already know thermodynamics indicate the temperature the air needs to be in order to start raising, but what if you don't reach it or barely approach it, the only thing warming up is this hot spot in the 5800X3D CPUs where the dies interpose that hits high temp quickly and also cools off even quicker, the CPU package itself isn't even warm to the touch. The DRP4 structure is also always cool to the touch, the chipset is 12C cooler than before, the CPU is 12-14C cooler than before. That's all the thermodynamics I need to know.
> 
> Thanks a lot for wishing me luck, yo también te deseo suerte 😄
> 
> edit: screenshots of the "hot air raising"
> 
> 26ºC CPU temp idle Windows 11, in Spain, in the summer weather...
> 
> View attachment 2567443
> 
> 
> 
> barely 40ºC 120 fps 1440p ray-traced Tomb Raider extensively using the "hot" cache layer
> 
> View attachment 2567445
> 
> 
> and a quick run of CB20 before eating my breakfast, no throttling at all, scores hitting the performance ceiling of a 5800X3D running at 100.0Mhz no-overclocking.
> 
> View attachment 2567446
> 
> 
> so much for the hot air raising, I can tell you there isn't any, I think I'm going to give my father and his 30 years of expertise at a leading company in the industry the benefit of the doubt, does it look ugly? yes, it's a dark rock and a bunch of fans, is it suboptimal? nope, it is performing the same as a water-cooling setup. For half the money and zero worries with regard to the circuit leaking. To me this is creative (thinking about the front plate of the DRP4 and the vent in the middle when you take out the fan, and designing a cooling solution around that based on air pressures and volumes). This is a top notch job.


How loud is it while gaming and what about temps while playing BF2042?


----------



## BNSoul

BHS1975 said:


> How loud is it while gaming and what about temps while playing BF2042?


The high speed 2x Silent Wings 3 at the top can be heard at night if pretty much everything else is in silence, not annoying by any means, but certainly audible. I've bought some Silent Wings Pro 4 high speed 3000 rpm 120mm as a replacement for the fan on the right side of the DRP4 which is still the be quiet default one (1600-1700 rpm, it's slightly malfunctioning). So I guess there will be some improvement as my father said the airflow needed a bit more "punch" from the right side for the pressure to be just perfect.

As for BF2042 I don't play that game, but I kind of perceive you're interested in temps while running CPU-intensive games so Horizon comes to mind since it uses the CPU super intensively to the point I've never seen in other games.
Horizon Zero Dawn with all logical threads loaded running ultra settings and wide screen 100+ fps (just waiting for Nvidia/AMD next wave of GPUs) never reached temps higher than 46-47ºC. And yes, a lot of the air coming down from the (home-made) cooling solution also cool the GPU backplate and help the GPU air flow into the exhaust points.

Can't wait for September / October when we start getting pretty chill weather in my area so I can observe the true potential of this setup. Should shave off at the very least 6ºC easily.


----------



## elbubi

My CB23 ST vanilla score is very poor (1458), cause the task is being splitted between 2 cores and boost not even reach 4450 at that mild load.

God how I wish to get rid of these nonsense single core task split.


----------



## BNSoul

elbubi said:


> My CB23 ST vanilla score is very poor (1958), cause the task is being splitted between 2 cores and boost not even reach 4450 at that mild load.
> 
> God how I wish to get rid of these nonsense single core task split.


CB23 1958 SC score is way higher than theoretical maximum (1492-1493) with no overclock applied.

what do you mean with single thread task split across two cores? Do you mean it's like what CPU-Z does (boosting two cores at the same time), because I've never seen CB behaving like that.


----------



## elbubi

BNSoul said:


> CB23 1958 SC score is way higher than theoretical maximum (1492-1493) with no overclock applied.
> what do you mean with single thread task split across two cores? Do you mean it's like what CPU-Z does (boosting to cores at the same time), because I've never seen CB behaving like that.


Sorry! Typo there! Actual score is 1458 (not 1958)
What I mean is that my system "distributes" the single core test into 2C/4T (don't know why in hell it does this). Latest Bios, fresh windows, bios defaults, nothing helps...
You can see it here


----------



## Blameless

Alemancio said:


> Technically, its against Laws of thermodynamics to use top fans as intake and bottoms as exhaust, since hot air raises.


As far as air flow itself goes, orientation is essentially irrelevant in an actively cooled PC. Even low speed fans completely overwhelm the tiny airflow velocity that otherwise results from the density changes driving natural convection.

Saying the orientation is against the laws of thermodynamics is like saying it's against the laws of physics for me to be able to push a half filled toy balloon to the floor.



elbubi said:


> What I mean is that my system "distributes" the single core test into 2C/4T (don't know why in hell it does this). Latest Bios, fresh windows, bios defaults, nothing helps...
> You can see it here


That's caused by affinity rapidly switching from one logical core to another faster than the utilization polling can keep up. Depending on other loads and system power profiles, this may be expected behavior.


----------



## elbubi

Blameless said:


> That's caused by affinity rapidly switching from one logical core to another faster than the utilization polling can keep up. Depending on other loads and system power profiles, this may be expected behavior.


Do I have any chance to prevent this? Honestly I don't care If switching is that fast that can't be "seen", but as long as I'm having sub-par results, I would like it to behave normally.


----------



## BHS1975

BNSoul said:


> The high speed 2x Silent Wings 3 at the top can be heard at night if pretty much everything else is in silence, not annoying by any means, but certainly audible. I've bought some Silent Wings Pro 4 high speed 3000 rpm 120mm as a replacement for the fan on the right side of the DRP4 which is still the be quiet default one (1600-1700 rpm, it's slightly malfunctioning). So I guess there will be some improvement as my father said the airflow needed a bit more "punch" from the right side for the pressure to be just perfect.
> 
> As for BF2042 I don't play that game, but I kind of perceive you're interested in temps while running CPU-intensive games so Horizon comes to mind since it uses the CPU super intensively to the point I've never seen in other games.
> Horizon Zero Dawn with all logical threads loaded running ultra settings and wide screen 100+ fps (just waiting for Nvidia/AMD next wave of GPUs) never reached temps higher than 46-47ºC. And yes, a lot of the air coming down from the (home-made) cooling solution also cool the GPU backplate and help the GPU air flow into the exhaust points.
> 
> Can't wait for September / October when we start getting pretty chill weather in my area so I can observe the true potential of this setup. Should shave off at the very least 6ºC easily.
> 
> View attachment 2567516


At what CPU temp does your CPU fans hit max RPM?


----------



## Fight Game

not sure whats going on yet. just started up and seeing some lag, with no changes being done. open hwmoniter and see this. crazy lag but boosting to 5271 wtff


----------



## Fight Game

now 6604


----------



## Mask

elbubi said:


> Do I have any chance to prevent this? Honestly I don't care If switching is that fast that can't be "seen", but as long as I'm having sub-par results, I would like it to behave normally.


Process Lasso probably. This is default Windows scheduler behavior I believe.


----------



## Blameless

elbubi said:


> Do I have any chance to prevent this? Honestly I don't care If switching is that fast that can't be "seen", but as long as I'm having sub-par results, I would like it to behave normally.


What are your temps like? Have you tried the high performance or ultimate performance power plans?


----------



## Fight Game

well i cant replicate the weird bug now. if anyone ever beats a 6604 screenshot with this chip lmk haha


----------



## BNSoul

BHS1975 said:


> At what CPU temp does your CPU fans hit max RPM?


Usually when it's approaching 55ºC, this is, two seconds into a Cinebench run 😅
apart from CB and other benchmarks I've not seen that temp at all, I need a 4080 to push my CPU further, I've already saved up for it (believing that it will cost at the very least 1.25x the price of a 3080) but day 1 will be a cluster fact as always.


----------



## BNSoul

some random things...

Geekbench 5 seems to yield 100% performance even when limited to 116-77-117 and under a considerable voltage curve, it's not particularly power hungry.











on the other hand, CPU-Z actually needs at least 122-82-124 to approach max theoretical multi-thread performance, the difference vs stock limits -30 all-core is 0.03% (welp, that's not 0 but almost 0)











then I noticed running PI mod 1.5 XS (which relies on classic single-thread code benefiting from high frequencies) that the 5800X3D outpaces by the tiniest margin a stock Zen 3 5700X even if the 5700X runs single-core workloads at a higher frequency (4600 vs 4550-ish). There's no cache advantage in this one so I guess the 5800X3D is more like a metronome and particularly consistent while flat-lining boosting for 371 seconds straight, so it can make up for the speed difference, idk what other explanation could it be.











also Ubisoft hammering CPUs with their obnoxious DRM solutions, in this particular game with a 5800X3D I can run at fully native 1440p 100+ fps ultra settings whereas prior to this CPU with a 5900X I couldn't get past 72-75 fps with this venerable 3 year old GPU. Even when the CPU is being considerably stressed in every logical core (16 threads) temps are absolutely fine and ridiculously low for the Spanish summer weather, with a 65w Zen 2 in January a couple of years ago this game would hit 60º even if struggling to reach 60fps. As I've mentioned before can't wait for mid September when temps drastically drop in my area.


----------



## tonynca

Does anyone here play Fortnite at 4k? Does this CPU help with the stutters while diving off the bus?


----------



## Bamidrol

Hi guys. I currently have a 5600X and I'm thinking of upgrading to this beast. My cpu is currently paired with a hyper 212 BE and I'm wondering if that's sufficient cooling for the 5800X3D. Also I was wondering if anyone here plays PUBG and noticed big/any improvements after doing an upgrade like this. It will be paired with some 3800cl14 b-die. 

Thanks!


----------



## Fight Game

Bamidrol said:


> Hi guys. I currently have a 5600X and I'm thinking of upgrading to this beast. My cpu is currently paired with a hyper 212 BE and I'm wondering if that's sufficient cooling for the 5800X3D. Also I was wondering if anyone here plays PUBG and noticed big/any improvements after doing an upgrade like this. It will be paired with some 3800cl14 b-die.
> 
> Thanks!


Yes this chip does very well with pubg, at least according to this video vs the 5800x. So, from a 5600x I'd expect even more. I'd expect that cooler to at least be able to run it at stock settings just fine. Even with the best cooler, you're only looking at a few percent gain any way.
RYZEN 7 5800X3D vs RYZEN 7 5800X with RTX 3080 Ti (7 Games / FHD / 1080p) - YouTube


----------



## Bamidrol

Fight Game said:


> Yes this chip does very well with pubg, at least according to this video vs the 5800x. So, from a 5600x I'd expect even more. I'd expect that cooler to at least be able to run it at stock settings just fine. Even with the best cooler, you're only looking at a few percent gain any way.
> RYZEN 7 5800X3D vs RYZEN 7 5800X with RTX 3080 Ti (7 Games / FHD / 1080p) - YouTube


Oh my that's really impressive. F*CK it. I'm going for it. Ty


----------



## Fight Game

at those framerates, you'd obviously also need a monitor capable of those refresh rates to see the benefit though. then theres also the argument if humans can even see a difference over half those rates. depends on what your lows are now. ymmv! dont spend big money on something you arent gonna see


----------



## elbubi

Mask said:


> Process Lasso probably. This is default Windows scheduler behavior I believe.


But I don't see anyone (at least here) having this same issue, that's why I find hard to settle with "expected behaviour"


Blameless said:


> What are your temps like? Have you tried the high performance or ultimate performance power plans?


My temps do not exceed 77º even after 30min continous CB multithreaded test (under decent 120mm AIO)
Have tried both power plans to no luck. I really hate this behaviour (just in case, its not CB fault, other single core tests behaves de same, ie: CPU-Z, OCCT)


----------



## Blameless

elbubi said:


> But I don't see anyone (at least here) having this same issue, that's why I find hard to settle with "expected behaviour"


Firmware, settings, and the specific Windows build (switching from Windows 10 20H2 to 21H2 to Server 2022 each had some impact, all other things being equal, on my system) can all influence how threads are scheduled.

In general, Windows will rotate thread to mitigate hotspots, unless some other factor tells it not to. For most of us, CPPC and C-states likely interact with the scheduler to keep heavily loaded threads on the preferred cores, in the order of preference, or at least to keep cores in deeper C-states from being woken up unnecessarily.

What does your preferred core order look like? Are you disabling global C-states? Have you tried running in safe mode or with a minimal boot to rule out the interference of background tasks?


----------



## BNSoul

Fight Game said:


> at those framerates, you'd obviously also need a monitor capable of those refresh rates to see the benefit though. then theres also the argument if humans can even see a difference over half those rates. depends on what your lows are now. ymmv! dont spend big money on something you arent gonna see


The most important gain is in the 1% frames (and 0.1% for that matter) improvement leading to an overall increased smoothness while playing.


----------



## BNSoul

elbubi said:


> But I don't see anyone (at least here) having this same issue, that's why I find hard to settle with "expected behaviour"


Entiendo. I have Global C-states on "Auto" and CPPC Preferred Cores disabled, it is so weird that a task aimed exclusively at one specific logical core can get split like that and be processed by two cores instead bypassing the order set by the scheduler. Can you do a run of Pi Mod 1.5 XS? maybe boost tester by overclocker @Mannix? If you get those also split then I tend to believe it's the BIOS acting up, I've not found anything like that anywhere in the Windows data base.


----------



## elbubi

Blameless said:


> Firmware, settings, and the specific Windows build (switching from Windows 10 20H2 to 21H2 to Server 2022 each had some impact, all other things being equal, on my system) can all influence how threads are scheduled.
> 
> In general, Windows will rotate thread to mitigate hotspots, unless some other factor tells it not to. For most of us, CPPC and C-states likely interact with the scheduler to keep heavily loaded threads on the preferred cores, in the order of preference, or at least to keep cores in deeper C-states from being woken up unnecessarily.
> 
> What does your preferred core order look like? Are you disabling global C-states? Have you tried running in safe mode or with a minimal boot to rule out the interference of background tasks?


First of all, thanks for taking the time to help me.

Now that you mention preferred cores, I realize that both core 0 & 1 has assigned "1º" for CPPC order, and coincidentally, those are the 2 cores in which single core tests gets splitted in half.

See here:









Could this be the reason for my "abnormal" behaviour or is it normal and has nothing to do with it? My 5600g at the office also has two "1" and it doesn split tasks, so I guess its kinda normal to have two cores rated as 1.

Regarding your other 2 questions, I have "auto" setting for Global C-States and Preferred Cores, have not tried safe boot but tried closing all background tasks and services makes no difference.



BNSoul said:


> Entiendo. I have Global C-states on "Auto" and CPPC Preferred Cores disabled, it is so weird that a task aimed exclusively at one specific logical core can get split like that and be processed by two cores instead bypassing the order set by the scheduler. Can you do a run of Pi Mod 1.5 XS? maybe boost tester by overclocker @Mannix? If you get those also split then I tend to believe it's the BIOS acting up, I've not found anything like that anywhere in the Windows data base.


Thanks for you too! Mannix correctly uses only one core, but I guess that because it "targets" to a specific core number one by one, whereas single core benchs does not point so specific core number but lets chip/so to decide which is the best to use. I'm not sure of this, its just my humble understanding.


----------



## lunatik

Fight Game said:


> well i cant replicate the weird bug now. if anyone ever beats a 6604 screenshot with this chip lmk haha


No problem...


----------



## BNSoul

elbubi said:


> See here:
> View attachment 2567663


well yeah if the task at hand demands the scheduler to hand out workloads to processing cores based on top performers available then yes I can totally see it bugging out like you're showing and handing the task to logical cores #0 and #1
I've never seen this bug before tbh but seems like CPU profiling is acting up, I'd uninstall theAMD chipset drivers then reboot and (making sure PBO2 Tuner is not active) install them back. Also, full CMOS clear / BIOS reset and if you're on 1.2.0.7 maybe trying on 1.2.0.6b and see how it goes there, I really wouldn't want to re-install Windows over this but for sure I'd have to if my single core workloads get messed up like that.


----------



## BNSoul

lunatik said:


> No problem...
> 
> View attachment 2567665


you're doing BCLK overclocking and still getting moderate clock stretching... idk with those weird readings maybe HWInfo is not to be trusted for now when going past 100 MHz base clock.


----------



## Luggage

lunatik said:


> No problem...
> 
> View attachment 2567665


The 8GHz is a clear sign something is bugging out.

@BNSoul HWinfo64 can easily bug out while running benchmarks if any other sensor program or smu-reading app is open at the same time. F ex benchmate , zentimings, pbo2tuner, Ryzen master, hydra, icue?



http://imgur.com/0NW2bRj

30GHz wooh! ;D


----------



## BNSoul

Time to upgrade the right side fan that came with the DRP4 (the only one I have left) and maybe the silent wings 3 too, my father suggested anything faster than 2000rpm, the default one is malfunctioning at 1700rpm and this swp4 is 3000rpm, my local shop got 50 today at 9 in the morning and they're all already sold out at 14 in the afternoon, they had the 5800X3D along with the rest of Zen 3 CPUs on sale clearing stock for incoming Zen 4, so my old man told me to snag one for his personal rig (405€) 👍

Edit: installed and ready to fly


















Fits like a glove


----------



## elbubi

BNSoul said:


> well yeah if the task at hand demands the scheduler to hand out workloads to processing cores based on top performers available then yes I can totally see it bugging out like you're showing and handing the task to logical cores #0 and #1
> I've never seen this bug before tbh but seems like CPU profiling is acting up, I'd uninstall theAMD chipset drivers then reboot and (making sure PBO2 Tuner is not active) install them back. Also, full CMOS clear / BIOS reset and if you're on 1.2.0.7 maybe trying on 1.2.0.6b and see how it goes there, I really wouldn't want to re-install Windows over this but for sure I'd have to if my single core workloads get messed up like that.


Ok, will try it tonight when I get home and report back.
Tried CPPC Global and preferred to disabled, and it behaves just the same (regarding spliting, used cores now are different ones)


----------



## Taraquin

Anyone with Gigabyte MB and 5800X3D? Wondering if PPT, UV offset, eco mode is present i bios? Considering buying one, but like silent operation so the stock 120W+ consumption at high load is not interesting.


----------



## BNSoul

Taraquin said:


> Anyone with Gigabyte MB and 5800X3D? Wondering if PPT, UV offset, eco mode is present i bios? Considering buying one, but like silent operation so the stock 120W+ consumption at high load is not interesting.


Gigabyte Aorus X570 Elite here, PPT - TDC - EDC settings YES they're present in BIOS (AGESA 1.2.0.7), ECO MODE is YES present in BIOS, vcore offset is NOT present, voltage curve is NOT present either.

Stock won't draw 120W unless the workload demands so, what stock does is taking too much voltage for the task at hand so you can use PBO2 Tuner to micro-manage power limits and set per-core voltage curve in order to get much lower temps at 100% performance.

The reason AMD gives these CPUs more voltage than necessary is to obtain an increased percentage of validated CPUs from their yields. (Of course at lower stock voltage only the highest binned parts would pass validation). Money rules everything.


----------



## Jabdah

Hmm playing around a bit... after 2 hours of gaming only one Core boosted to 4550..damn..


----------



## BNSoul

Jabdah said:


> Hmm playing around a bit... after 2 hours of gaming only one Core boosted to 4550..damn..
> View attachment 2567745


If the game uses 2+ cores you will never see a rogue core boosting to 4538-4545 effective clock unless a bug happens, the 5800X3D goes all out and flatline at 4450MHz for multi-core workloads, so that 4550 nominal clock was either a rare spike (when the other cores were low on load) or some loading screen / menu interaction.

There are old games like Dead space 2 or PS2 emulators where you will see consistent boosting to 4550 due to their single core nature.

Where I get boosting all the time (it just takes a couple of minutes and all 8 cores have boosted) is during normal Windows operation since most apps are single threaded, like check your mail, open event viewers, defrag disks, Office stuff.... but on the other hand web browsing is nicely multi-threaded so you won't see boosting there either. Not that 100MHz change much beyond benchmarks, but it's nice to have.


----------



## BNSoul

Well well well... after playing some late summer night Division 2 raids with the clan pf my Univ and observing superb temps thanks to the increased rpm stability of the silent wings pro 4 I decided to go for a CB23 run before hitting the sack and... I'm stoked, 1494 Single Core (surpassing by the tiniest of margins the theoretical 1492-1493 limit at 100.0Mhz BCLK) and 15285 Multi Core which is pretty much the performance ceiling at said no-overclock 100.0MHz BCLK. 

Temps were super good at 70.6ºC and effective clocks unbelievable with several cores hitting 4450.0 and all the rest above 4449.7, showing virtually 0% clock stretching (evidencing that with significant power limits and a considerable voltage curve this gold or platinum-ish CPU sample can still yield 100% of stock performance), power deviation ended up at around 101%, I'm running AUTO load line calibration in BIOS btw, so super nice result and maybe my last CB23 run since I guess there's nothing else to see or achieve with zero overclock and just the help of PBO2 Tuner. 

and of course got to give it to my old man and his creative ideas !!


----------



## BNSoul

edit: _duplicate_ sry


----------



## Bamidrol

Don't know if you guys still care about production dates but this is the sample I just received:










BR 2224PGS

Anything I can do with this data?

I was able to copy the 3800c14 b-die profile I had running on my 5600X with no problems. It seems to be boosting to 4450 but I'm thinking of doing a clean install this weekend.


----------



## BNSoul

Bamidrol said:


> Don't know if you guys still care about production dates but this is the sample I just received:
> 
> View attachment 2567757
> 
> 
> BR 2224PGS
> 
> Anything I can do with this data?
> 
> I was able to copy the 3800c14 b-die profile I had running on my 5600X with no problems. It seems to be boosting to 4450 but I'm thinking of doing a clean install this weekend.


Can you do a C23 run with -30 all-core? What single and multi scores are you getting, how are temps and effective clocks?

For now manufacturing dates and factories are just a number and a place (even if a bunch of users would prefer SUS samples from China instead of Malaysia PGS). The thing is that materials and fab process remain unchanged and are not likely to change unless a bug is found, there's silicon lottery involved tho. In my limited experience the earliest samples have been the ones with better effective clocks and increased tolerance to aggressive voltage curves, but all of this is anecdotal.


----------



## Fight Game

got me curious so I tried myself, multi:









single:


----------



## jvidia

Anyone with one 5800X3D from week 21 ( BR 2221PGS ) ?


----------



## jvidia

(remove please .... double post)


----------



## BNSoul

Fight Game said:


> got me curious so I tried myself, multi:
> View attachment 2567762
> 
> 
> single:


Nice, with a good overclock on top. Less than 1ºC away from throttling though, cutting it close 😅
Can you do a run at 100.0MHz BCLK?


----------



## Fight Game

maybe later, sure. editted previous to include single


----------



## Fight Game

If I set limits in pbo2 I'm sure I could get better temps, and possibly keep the frequency. I know I did at 100bclk, havent tried again with this at 102


----------



## BNSoul

Fight Game said:


> If I set limits in pbo2 I'm sure I could get better temps, and possibly keep the frequency. I know I did at 100bclk, havent tried again with this at 102


I'm more interested in 100.0MHz stats since your CPU performance scaling isn't 1:1 with BCLK increments (leaving RAM speed aside, which I'm sure you have at better timings). This is, you're running at 102% CPU performance compared to stock BCLK. However your multi-core result is 15401 compared to 100.0MHz 15285, that's just 100.7% better and "far" from theoretical 102%, also one centigrade higher and you won't be even reaching 100.5%. With regard to single core here it should be easily 1:1 102% and you get 101.9% for single core apps that are rather limited in 2022. Not sure if that's worth the high temps bordering on thermal throttling even on water cooling, not to mention the instability on certain devices as BCLK increases.

Not discouraging from overclocking, I admire those that have the time, patience, knowledge, resources and tools to go for it and get meaningful increases. But for the reasons above a 100.0MHz run with HWInfo64 showing effective clocks running in the background is much more interesting to see so the quality of the silicon can be assessed, if your CPU with power limits in place (and load line calibration on Auto) and -30 counts all-core voltage regulation can stay within 99,999% and even 100% of effective core clocks compared to theoretical stock 4450MHz while scoring 15250+ then that's a sign of a quality sample. Of course if you need some industrial cooling solution and a 10-15°C chill room to brute force results then it would be a bit misleading as well.

Enough with the rambling, It's just a shame AMD locked the CPU to 4450 in multi-core operation instead of letting it flow until a certain temperature threshold is reached. Then again, the lock isn't bad per se as frame pacing benefits from consistency.

Sorry for long post, I'm on commute on my way back home with scorching hot weather (a mass of hot air and sand/dust from Africa hit Southern Spain today and it's here to stay). Have a good day mate! 👍


----------



## Luggage

BNSoul said:


> Well well well... after playing some late summer night Division 2 raids with the clan pf my Univ and observing superb temps thanks to the increased rpm stability of the silent wings pro 4 I decided to go for a CB23 run before hitting the sack and... I'm stoked, 1494 Single Core (surpassing by the tiniest of margins the theoretical 1492-1493 limit at 100.0Mhz BCLK) and 15285 Multi Core which is pretty much the performance ceiling at said no-overclock 100.0MHz BCLK.
> 
> Temps were super good at 70.6ºC and effective clocks unbelievable with several cores hitting 4450.0 and all the rest above 4449.7, showing virtually 0% clock stretching (evidencing that with significant power limits and a considerable voltage curve this gold or platinum-ish CPU sample can still yield 100% of stock performance), power deviation ended up at around 101%, I'm running AUTO load line calibration in BIOS btw, so super nice result and maybe my last CB23 run since I guess there's nothing else to see or achieve with zero overclock and just the help of PBO2 Tuner.
> 
> and of course got to give it to my old man and his creative ideas !!
> 
> View attachment 2567755


Theoretical max sc r23?
Manual OC 4550 on standard 5800X, benchmate, real time. 100 bclk.


http://imgur.com/HX7izvJ


----------



## BHS1975

BNSoul said:


> Well well well... after playing some late summer night Division 2 raids with the clan pf my Univ and observing superb temps thanks to the increased rpm stability of the silent wings pro 4 I decided to go for a CB23 run before hitting the sack and... I'm stoked, 1494 Single Core (surpassing by the tiniest of margins the theoretical 1492-1493 limit at 100.0Mhz BCLK) and 15285 Multi Core which is pretty much the performance ceiling at said no-overclock 100.0MHz BCLK.
> 
> Temps were super good at 70.6ºC and effective clocks unbelievable with several cores hitting 4450.0 and all the rest above 4449.7, showing virtually 0% clock stretching (evidencing that with significant power limits and a considerable voltage curve this gold or platinum-ish CPU sample can still yield 100% of stock performance), power deviation ended up at around 101%, I'm running AUTO load line calibration in BIOS btw, so super nice result and maybe my last CB23 run since I guess there's nothing else to see or achieve with zero overclock and just the help of PBO2 Tuner.
> 
> and of course got to give it to my old man and his creative ideas !!
> 
> View attachment 2567755


Do you have a vore offset in the bios?


----------



## BHS1975

BNSoul said:


> Well well well... after playing some late summer night Division 2 raids with the clan pf my Univ and observing superb temps thanks to the increased rpm stability of the silent wings pro 4 I decided to go for a CB23 run before hitting the sack and... I'm stoked, 1494 Single Core (surpassing by the tiniest of margins the theoretical 1492-1493 limit at 100.0Mhz BCLK) and 15285 Multi Core which is pretty much the performance ceiling at said no-overclock 100.0MHz BCLK.
> 
> Temps were super good at 70.6ºC and effective clocks unbelievable with several cores hitting 4450.0 and all the rest above 4449.7, showing virtually 0% clock stretching (evidencing that with significant power limits and a considerable voltage curve this gold or platinum-ish CPU sample can still yield 100% of stock performance), power deviation ended up at around 101%, I'm running AUTO load line calibration in BIOS btw, so super nice result and maybe my last CB23 run since I guess there's nothing else to see or achieve with zero overclock and just the help of PBO2 Tuner.
> 
> and of course got to give it to my old man and his creative ideas !!
> 
> View attachment 2567755


Do you have a vcore offset in the bios?


----------



## BNSoul

Luggage said:


> Theoretical max sc r23?
> Manual OC 4550 on standard 5800X, benchmate, real time. 100 bclk.
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/HX7izvJ


Waste of time mate, try again with an actual SC effective clock of a stock 5800X3D CPU, it's not 4550MHz which the regular 5800X can hold easily but somewhere in between 4530-4545 depending on sample. It's so funny when ppl try to prove someone else wrong with a different CPU and a flawed methodology on top of that.

The difference between the actual effective clock of a stock 5800X3D in Cinebench vs the artificial and unwavering 4550MHz of the regular 5800X is the roughly 1% improvement you're posting. Get actual effective clocks of an average 5800X3D running R23, then manually overclock your 5800X to that average frequency and try again. Good day 👍


----------



## BNSoul

BHS1975 said:


> Do you have a vcore offset in the bios?


Hi there mate, how's it going. Unfortunately there's no vcore offset option available for the AORUS x570 Elite, not even a mod or anything. I think I would benefit from it since my power report deviation is still over 100%. The last thing I tried is making the cooling system better by swapping a malfunctioning default fan (it was running 1500-1700 rpm instead of its nominal 2000) with a silent wings pro 4.


----------



## BNSoul

Luggage said:


> Theoretical max sc r23?
> Manual OC 4550 on standard 5800X, benchmate, real time. 100 bclk.
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/HX7izvJ


Also, while you're at it and you're the first 5800X expert I meet on this 5800X3D thread, this is a benchmark of a software that my old man uses daily at his job place (this one does complex and real-time simulations of fluids and interactions with external agents such as magnetism and electricity.)

Do you happen to know how many cores do we need to disable on his 5800X3D or how many GHz the clocks should be drop for a fair comparison against a regular 5800X? In the graph below 👇 the shorter the graph the better the performance (expressed in time needed to complete a simulation). 

Spoiler: The 5800X3D is more than twice (2.18X) as fast than the 5800X with improved power efficiency and also beating 5900X and 5950X (by a less sizable margin). How's that R23 1% better single core score running at higher effective clocks on a 5800X (flawed comparison) looking now? Because running benchmarks doesn't help you earn money, however working on the software mentioned here does and also alleviates your company's electricity.










Awaiting your detailed comments on how to ultimately nerf a 5800X3D to match a regular 5800X in this real world, specific field of work use case, thanks in advance. It's no good when some ppl reactively come to a thread using incredibly flawed methodologies just to try and discredit a forum member that you're not likely to ever meet in person, that's sad that ppl actually spends the time to do that.


----------



## BHS1975

Deleted


----------



## BHS1975

BNSoul said:


> Hi there mate, how's it going. Unfortunately there's no vcore offset option available for the AORUS x570 Elite, not even a mod or anything. I think I would benefit from it since my power report deviation is still over 100%. The last thing I tried is making the cooling system better by swapping a malfunctioning default fan (it was running 1500-1700 rpm instead of its nominal 2000) with a silent wings pro 4.


Yeah mine maxes out at about 15146 with offset set to -0.075. The only way to go higher is louder fans. 1.175 vcore at load seems to be the sweet spot. Mine won't run 1900 IF but it will do 1866 at 1v.


----------



## Luggage

BNSoul said:


> Also, while you're at it and you're the first 5800X expert I meet on this 5800X3D thread, this is a benchmark of a software that my old man uses daily at his job place (this one does complex and real-time simulations of fluids and interactions with external agents such as magnetism and electricity.)
> 
> Do you happen to know how many cores do we need to disable on his 5800X3D or how many GHz the clocks should be drop for a fair comparison against a regular 5800X? In the graph below 👇 the shorter the graph the better the performance (expressed in time needed to complete a simulation).
> 
> Spoiler: The 5800X3D is more than twice (2.18X) as fast than the 5800X with improved power efficiency and also beating 5900X and 5950X (by a less sizable margin). How's that R23 1% better single core score running at higher effective clocks on a 5800X (flawed comparison) looking now? Because running benchmarks doesn't help you earn money, however working on the software mentioned here does and also alleviates your company's electricity.
> 
> View attachment 2567766
> 
> 
> Awaiting your detailed comments on how to ultimately nerf a 5800X3D to match a regular 5800X in this real world, specific field of work use case, thanks in advance. It's no good when some ppl reactively come to a thread using incredibly flawed methodologies just to try and discredit a forum member that you're not likely to ever meet in person, that's sad that ppl actually spends the time to do that.


Sorry if you think I’m ****ting on the 5800x3d I don’t know what to do.

I’m just showing what the zen cores can do in a very specific benchmark, that does not care about ram or cache, at a set clockspeed - because with the 5800x I can set that speed with a manual OC.


----------



## BNSoul

BHS1975 said:


> Yeah mine maxes out at about 15146 with offset set to -0.075. 1.175 vcore at load seems to be the sweet spot.


That's incredibly useful to me, thanks a lot for sharing because I really want to get back the performance I'm leaving on the table due to the motherboard wrongly reporting power usage to the CPU, and I mean in a broad range of actual Linux productivity apps and Windows games, not just Cinebench. 

What motherboard are you using then? Your results are super nice and you're also hitting the 1492-94 theoretical 5800X3D limit meaning that, even with an offset in place, you're achieving max performance so your CPU is a really good sample 👍 I might just order one of those from Amazon for the 5800X3D I bought for my father yesterday (they're out of stock now, at that price I maybe should have bought one more), he uses a lot of engineering apps on some Ubuntu distribution where the 5800X3D destroys every other home PC CPU (including the 12900K and its 300w when overloaded).

Thanks again.


----------



## BNSoul

BHS1975 said:


> Yeah mine maxes out at about 15146 with offset set to -0.075. 1.175 vcore at load seems to be the sweet spot.


That's incredibly useful to me, thanks a lot for sharing because I really want to get back the performance I'm leaving on the table due to the motherboard wrongly reporting power usage to the CPU, and I mean in a broad range of actual Linux productivity apps and Windows games, not just Cinebench.

What motherboard are you using then? Your results are super nice and you're also hitting the 1492-94 theoretical 5800X3D limit meaning that, even with an offset in place, you're achieving max performance so your CPU is a really good sample 👍 I might just order one of those from Amazon for the 5800X3D I bought for my father yesterday (they're out of stock now, at that price I maybe should have bought one more), he uses a lot of engineering apps on some Ubuntu distribution where the 5800X3D destroys every other home PC CPU (including the 12900K and its 300w when overloaded).

Thanks again.


Luggage said:


> Sorry if you think I’m ****ting on the 5800x3d I don’t know what to do.
> 
> I’m just showing what the zen cores can do in a very specific benchmark, that does not care about ram or cache, at a set clockspeed - because with the 5800x I can set that speed with a manual OC.


Thanks for this reply, I honestly thought it was a trolling attempt and I replied a bit childish about it so I apologize if that wasn't the case. 

It's true that the 100.0MHz 5800X3D doesn't reach 4550 effective clocks while boosting single core workloads, and it's a tad worse when running a heavy one such as R23, so for a 1:1 comparison we need to set the 5800X at that speed, which is somewhat hoovering depending on core quality between 4525 and 4535 on Cinebench. On the other hand running forum member @Mannix "boost tester" the workload is lighter and boosts can show up to 4543-4545 speeds in some cases.

Nothing wrong with the 5800X and/or the 3D variant, they're both competent for day to day desktop usage and both have strong and weak use cases, as everything with regard to electronics. My sister has one and I have to acknowledge that it doesn't need all the baby sitting and fine tuning that the 5800X3D demands.


----------



## Luggage

BNSoul said:


> That's incredibly useful to me, thanks a lot for sharing because I really want to get back the performance I'm leaving on the table due to the motherboard wrongly reporting power usage to the CPU, and I mean in a broad range of actual Linux productivity apps and Windows games, not just Cinebench.
> 
> What motherboard are you using then? Your results are super nice and you're also hitting the 1492-94 theoretical 5800X3D limit meaning that, even with an offset in place, you're achieving max performance so your CPU is a really good sample 👍 I might just order one of those from Amazon for the 5800X3D I bought for my father yesterday (they're out of stock now, at that price I maybe should have bought one more), he uses a lot of engineering apps on some Ubuntu distribution where the 5800X3D destroys every other home PC CPU (including the 12900K and its 300w when overloaded).
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> 
> Thanks for this reply, I honestly thought it was a trolling attempt and I replied a bit childish about it so I apologize if that wasn't the case.
> 
> It's true that the 100.0MHz 5800X3D doesn't reach 4550 effective clocks while boosting single core workloads, and it's a tad worse when running a heavy one such as R23, so for a 1:1 comparison we need to set the 5800X at that speed, which is somewhat hoovering depending on core quality between 4525 and 4535 on Cinebench. On the other hand running forum member @Mannix "boost tester" the workload is lighter and boosts can show up to 4543-4545 speeds in some cases.
> 
> Nothing wrong with the 5800X and/or the 3D variant, they're both competent for day to day desktop usage and both have strong and weak use cases, as everything with regard to electronics. My sister has one and I have to acknowledge that it doesn't need all the baby sitting and fine tuning that the 5800X3D demands.


I can try next week, now I’m 700km from my computer.


----------



## BHS1975

BNSoul said:


> That's incredibly useful to me, thanks a lot for sharing because I really want to get back the performance I'm leaving on the table due to the motherboard wrongly reporting power usage to the CPU, and I mean in a broad range of actual Linux productivity apps and Windows games, not just Cinebench.
> 
> What motherboard are you using then? Your results are super nice and you're also hitting the 1492-94 theoretical 5800X3D limit meaning that, even with an offset in place, you're achieving max performance so your CPU is a really good sample 👍 I might just order one of those from Amazon for the 5800X3D I bought for my father yesterday (they're out of stock now, at that price I maybe should have bought one more), he uses a lot of engineering apps on some Ubuntu distribution where the 5800X3D destroys every other home PC CPU (including the 12900K and its 300w when overloaded).
> 
> Thanks again.


I just did a CB run and got 15216 with a -0.628 offset using -30 all core offset which is the highest so far. I've got the Asus B550-F. What limits are best for gaming?


----------



## BHS1975

BNSoul said:


> That's incredibly useful to me, thanks a lot for sharing because I really want to get back the performance I'm leaving on the table due to the motherboard wrongly reporting power usage to the CPU, and I mean in a broad range of actual Linux productivity apps and Windows games, not just Cinebench.
> 
> What motherboard are you using then? Your results are super nice and you're also hitting the 1492-94 theoretical 5800X3D limit meaning that, even with an offset in place, you're achieving max performance so your CPU is a really good sample 👍 I might just order one of those from Amazon for the 5800X3D I bought for my father yesterday (they're out of stock now, at that price I maybe should have bought one more), he uses a lot of engineering apps on some Ubuntu distribution where the 5800X3D destroys every other home PC CPU (including the 12900K and its 300w when overloaded).
> 
> Thanks again.


I just did a CB run and got 15216 with a -0.628 offset using -30 all core offset which is the highest so far. I've got the Asus B550-F. What limits are best for gaming?


----------



## BNSoul

BHS1975 said:


> I just did a CB run and got 15216 with a -0.628 offset using -30 all core offset which is the highest so far. I've got the Asus B550-F. What limits are best for gaming?


That's super nice result, I really believe we both got nice CPU samples from the silicon lottery. For gaming I have 122 82 124 for modern games heavily multi-threaded and power spikes need to be accounted for, my CO in this case is -19 -27 -19 -24 -25 -24 -28 -29 (-19 for best cores obviously), the rest I found after quite a few hours with core cycler to validate and then aiming for every core to reach at least 4538.5-4539.5 effective clocks boosting with forum member @Mannix "boost tester". Honestly all my cores do at least 4537.9 in the worst case at -30 all-core but I went the extra mile for performance.

As for less demanding or old games I can loosen power limits down to 116 77 117 with a CO of -22 -28 -22 -26 -27 -26 -29 -30 (always going the extra mile to ensure absolute perfect stability in every core).

For benching (which I don't think I'll do more until I get a different motherboard or Gigabyte implements the vcore offset option) it depends on the app but you know you can pretty much get away with anything at 114 75 115 -30 all-core.

Other settings:

high performance power profile W11 for less demanding games or those with potential for max core boosting. Balanced profile for everything else.

Global c-states on Auto, the CPU gets its sleep states no problem but I observed increasing boosting occurrence.

CPPC enabled, preferred cores disabled, high event timer enabled in BIOS but default settings in Windows 11 (which ignores BIOS and uses custom timer values)

3800 CL16 dual rank RAM 1:1 with 1900 controller and fabric, with average sub-timings and poor TRFC but thankfully the 5800X3D doesn't care much, (my Zen timing are everywhere in my bench posts)
My next Kit will be DDR5 when Zen 4 3D is out so I got to stick to what I have now.

Fans won't get to 100% speed unless the temps approach and surpass 60ºC, they're rather silent thanks goodness.

GPU set with a custom voltage curve to obtain 99,9% performance at moderately reduced heat and power. Custom fan curve on it as well with 70º being the limit before blasting off the fans.

I'm using Samsung Evo 970+ EVO and WD sn750 black NVMe drives to avoid unnecessary PCIe.x4 stress and alleviate possible communication bottlenecks. A couple of 870 Evo SATA in there as well, the main reason I'm not even attempting BCLK 101.

G-Sync 1440p 144HZ LG-27GL850 monitor on top of already frame pacing smooth delivery thanks to the 3D cache CPU.

Corsair 850x 2021 for all those transient spikes shenanigans and the custom cooling solution we discussed on previous pages that dropped my chipset temperature from 60 to mid 40s ºC. Same but less extreme for memory banks and VRMs.

A nice mouse and mechanical keyboard 😅

Have a good one mate 👍


----------



## BHS1975

BNSoul said:


> That's super nice result, I really believe we both got nice CPU samples from the silicon lottery. For gaming I have 122 82 124 for modern games heavily multi-threaded and power spikes need to be accounted for, my CO in this case is -19 -27 -19 -24 -25 -24 -28 -29 (-19 for best cores obviously), the rest I found after quite a few hours with core cycler to validate and then aiming for every core to reach at least 4538.5-4539.5 effective clocks boosting with forum member @Mannix "boost tester". Honestly all my cores do at least 4537.9 in the worst case at -30 all-core but I went the extra mile for performance.
> 
> As for less demanding or old games I can loosen power limits down to 116 77 117 with a CO of -22 -28 -22 -26 -27 -26 -29 -30 (always going the extra mile to ensure absolute perfect stability in every core).
> 
> For benching (which I don't think I'll do more until I get a different motherboard or Gigabyte implements the vcore offset option) it depends on the app but you know you can pretty much get away with anything at 114 75 115 -30 all-core.
> 
> Other settings:
> 
> high performance power profile W11 for less demanding games or those with potential for max core boosting. Balanced profile for everything else.
> 
> Global c-states on Auto, the CPU gets its sleep states no problem but I observed increasing boosting occurrence.
> 
> CPPC enabled, preferred cores disabled, high event timer enabled in BIOS but default settings in Windows 11 (which ignores BIOS and uses custom timer values)
> 
> 3800 CL16 dual rank RAM 1:1 with 1900 controller and fabric, with average sub-timings and poor TRFC but thankfully the 5800X3D doesn't care much, (my Zen timing are everywhere in my bench posts)
> My next Kit will be DDR5 when Zen 4 3D is out so I got to stick to what I have now.
> 
> Fans won't get to 100% speed unless the temps approach and surpass 60ºC, they're rather silent thanks goodness.
> 
> GPU set with a custom voltage curve to obtain 99,9% performance at moderately reduced heat and power. Custom fan curve on it as well with 70º being the limit before blasting off the fans.
> 
> I'm using Samsung Evo 970+ EVO and WD sn750 black NVMe drives to avoid unnecessary PCIe.x4 stress and alleviate possible communication bottlenecks. A couple of 870 Evo SATA in there as well, the main reason I'm not even attempting BCLK 101.
> 
> G-Sync 1440p 144HZ LG-27GL850 monitor on top of already frame pacing smooth delivery thanks to the 3D cache CPU.
> 
> Corsair 850x 2021 for all those transient spikes shenanigans and the custom cooling solution we discussed on previous pages that dropped my chipset temperature from 60 to mid 40s ºC. Same but less extreme for memory banks and VRMs.
> 
> A nice mouse and mechanical keyboard 😅
> 
> Have a good one mate 👍


I've got that same monitor and it's great. Also it seems like the I/O chiplets that can hit 1900 need way more voltage than 1866 so I don't think it's worth it.


----------



## BNSoul

BHS1975 said:


> I've got that same monitor and it's great. Also it seems like the I/O chiplets that can hit 1900 need way more voltage than 1866 so I don't think it's worth it.


Yes maybe it's as you mentioned with regard to 1900 infinity fabric, anticipating this outcome I made sure that my 1:1 1900 profile carried the same settings and used the same low voltage/ power as my 1866 profile, it did absolutely fine and I validated it overnight, at this point my father was telling me I had a gold or maybe platinum sample. My best results have been with this setup but it's just 1-2% tops better than the 1866 profile. S bit more in gaming. Latency is moderately better though (3-4%). Temperature is indeed 1ºC higher when the full bandwidth is being used, which is normal. If I ever get my hands on the vcore offset I'll be using it on my 1866 profile that's for granted (stability).

As for the LG monitor it's been the best hardware I've bought with my own money, I've always said a strong CPU, good monitor and satisfying keyboard are the most relevant in the desktop PC "experience".


----------



## BHS1975

BNSoul said:


> Yes maybe it's as you mentioned with regard to 1900 infinity fabric, anticipating this outcome I made sure that my 1:1 1900 profile carried the same settings and used the same low voltage/ power as my 1866 profile, it did absolutely fine and I validated it overnight, at this point my father was telling me I had a gold or maybe platinum sample. My best results have been with this setup but it's just 1-2% tops better than the 1866 profile. S bit more in gaming. Latency is moderately better though (3-4%). Temperature is indeed 1ºC higher when the full bandwidth is being used, which is normal. If I ever get my hands on the vcore offset I'll be using it on my 1866 profile that's for granted (stability).
> 
> As for the LG monitor it's been the best hardware I've bought with my own money, I've always said a strong CPU, good monitor and satisfying keyboard are the most relevant in the desktop PC "experience".


My 5600x would run 1900 but every once in a while it had trouble cold booting. If yours can do 1900 at 1v that's platinum for sure.


----------



## Gregix

Quick question, do I have to set PCIe X3 for bus overclock?
I bought firecuda 730, get rid of SATA and as before could do 101mhz now can't set anything above default....just stuck on bios boot


----------



## BNSoul

Gregix said:


> Quick question, do I have to set PCIe X3 for bus overclock?
> I bought firecuda 730, get rid of SATA and as before could do 101mhz now can't set anything above default....just stuck on bios boot


Plug your case reset button connectors into the clear CMOS jumper in the motherboard, anytime you get stuck like this power the computer off and press the reset button so you can boot again and load a safe profile. You can also take out the BIOS battery for a couple of minutes and plug it back in. Your new device doesn't like that 1 MHz deviation, the stress you're putting the system under is not worth it considering the real world gains from 101-102 BCLK.


----------



## Geno_

Hi all, first time attempting overclocking outside of PBO on Zen chips - any tips for improvement? 

Got a BCLK OC running at.1.018 - allows me to maintain 1900FCLK, I get random cold boot issues and WHEAs above this even when setting VSOC to 1.15-1.2.
Dimms are running at 1.45v, PLL at 1.85. 
Core cycler gets effective all cores to 4531. I can't seem to get the 4632 boosts to happen reliably, only seems to occur outside of benchmarks with lightly threaded workloads is my guess.


----------



## BNSoul

Geno_ said:


> Hi all, first time attempting overclocking outside of PBO on Zen chips - any tips for improvement?


did that power report deviation happen during normal operation? If not, what were you running at that moment? What's worrying to me is that it's 96% at supposedly idle when taking the screenshots. Are you by any chance applying a negative Vcore offset?


----------



## Geno_

BNSoul said:


> did that power report deviation happen during normal operation? If not, what were you running at that moment? What's worrying to me is that it's 96% at supposedly idle when taking the screenshots. Are you by any chance applying a negative Vcore offset?


Occured during idling, it floats between 97-103 quite regularly. I keep an eye on it when stress testing. 

Got a -0.00625 vcore offset applied, the smallest it would let me do on this board.


----------



## BNSoul

Geno_ said:


> Occured during idling, it floats between 97-103 quite regularly. I keep an eye on it when stress testing.
> 
> Got a -0.00625 vcore offset applied, the smallest it would let me do on this board.


It's obvious that you need a higher Vcore instead of lower until you get that fixed.


----------



## BNSoul

Geno_ said:


> sic


I really think you're trying to get everything done at the same time and now you have CPU and RAM issues which are difficult to pinpoint since everything is intertwined.

Let's start by setting everything to Auto in BIOS, load optimized defaults if you need to, just change global c-states to Auto, enable CPPC and disable CPPC preferred cores, leave BCLK and Vcore alone for the time being. Now in your OS go and set some generic power limits through PBO2 Tuner such as 122 82 124 and -15 best cores -25 for the rest, test with Core Cycler and keep an eye on power deviation. If cores get validated then we can proceed to next step, we will optimize the curve at a later time. RAM optimization would be next, so did you use Auto or set those timings manually? Let's aim for 1900 1:1:1 with FCLK and UCLK, I guess you know what to change in BIOS for this. So, did it boot 1900 1:1:1 with timings set to Auto? What's the auto SOC voltage? Are you experienced with Ryzen RAM calculator?


----------



## lunatik

Geno_ said:


> Hi all, first time attempting overclocking outside of PBO on Zen chips - any tips for improvement?


Well, your cldo vddp is way too high (or maybe its different with other mobos, my asus b550 would go unstble). most likely the cause of instability atleast when your chip and mobo are "capable" of running higher fclk.

I run my Vipers 4x8 3933 2T with 0.9 cldo vddp for example (Tbh, i don't really even use it..Way easier to bclk OC with looser ram timings/speed and more stable. Currently just using some 3400 cl14 1t gdm off profile as baseline) .

Also all these "overclocks" are pretty much an use case scenario. You can go for highest benchmarks, highest single player game optimizing or go for competitive games optimization (depends if single core or multicore).. All of these require different setups.


----------



## elbubi

BNSoul said:


> well yeah if the task at hand demands the scheduler to hand out workloads to processing cores based on top performers available then yes I can totally see it bugging out like you're showing and handing the task to logical cores #0 and #1
> I've never seen this bug before tbh but seems like CPU profiling is acting up, I'd uninstall theAMD chipset drivers then reboot and (making sure PBO2 Tuner is not active) install them back. Also, full CMOS clear / BIOS reset and if you're on 1.2.0.7 maybe trying on 1.2.0.6b and see how it goes there, I really wouldn't want to re-install Windows over this but for sure I'd have to if my single core workloads get messed up like that.





elbubi said:


> Ok, will try it tonight when I get home and report back.
> Tried CPPC Global and preferred to disabled, and it behaves just the same (regarding spliting, used cores now are different ones)


Hi!
Reporting back here with (no good) results:

*Uninstall AMD Chipset drivers => DONE => Splitting still occurs (tested safe mode also)
*Install older version of chipset drivers => DONE => The same...
*CMOS reset => DONE => No luck either...
*Older BIOS (v1.2.0.6b) => DONE => Nope, not this time...
*Deleted proccesors from device manager => DONE => No no, luck elsewhere dude...
*Tested some custom power plans (ie: 1usmus, etc.) => DONE => Guess what? Didn't work...

I'm really really frustrated with all this splitting **** and all the time I had to invest with this issue.
Only thing left to try is to reinstall windows, but I don't have the time nor the will to reinstall 100+ apps, configs, etc.
That's it, I give up.

Thanks so much for trying to help me!


----------



## user55101

How can I get the PBO tuner I can't figure it out... I got a 5800X3D and it runs super hot I want to optimize it to get the same performance in game but lower the temperature


----------



## BNSoul

user55101 said:


> How can I get the PBO tuner I can't figure it out... I got a 5800X3D and it runs super hot I want to optimize it to get the same performance in game but lower the temperature


PBO2 Tuner is right in this thread...
Latest version: 5800X3D Owners


----------



## CCoR

lunatik said:


> Well, your cldo vddp is way too high (or maybe its different with other mobos, my asus b550 would go unstble). most likely the cause of instability atleast when your chip and mobo are "capable" of running higher fclk.
> 
> I run my Vipers 4x8 3933 2T with 0.9 cldo vddp for example (Tbh, i don't really even use it..Way easier to bclk OC with looser ram timings/speed and more stable. Currently just using some 3400 cl14 1t gdm off profile as baseline) .
> 
> Also all these "overclocks" are pretty much an use case scenario. You can go for highest benchmarks, highest single player game optimizing or go for competitive games optimization (depends if single core or multicore).. All of these require different setups.


what set ups do you recommend for competitive optimization?


----------



## Fight Game

a nice addition to this forum would be a way to pin a post(s) within each thread. So that when newcomers show up and dont have the patience to perform a simple search themselves, we dont have to do it for them....100x


----------



## Gregix

This CPU is funny 
Just got newest bios, so went all stock(except PBO is still in task sheduler) so RAM went from 3800 c16 to jedecs 2133(but I did FCLK/MCLK/UCLK 1:1:1)
So...I did VR benchmark, surprise, score was actually HIGHER than tuned 3800c16(or 14 if that matter, tested that earlier too)
Did WOT encore bench, my faw for testing smoothness and RAM tuning differences, was around 1% lower than tuned...to put in perspective, best result with 5800x3d I had ~54600(with some ocassional stutter). With JEDEC I had SMOOTH 51400 score
I think I will just push mems a bit, to get some more bandwidth, but OC RAM seems kinda pointless now. :S

Edit: Forgot to add, all reason for BIOS update was...it has combo strike 
Dumb me, I found it after 3hrs of fiddling with setting RAM and gettin rid off WHEA (CPU bus/interconnect errors), which I still have....can't find proper voltages for 3800, I think I will have to dial down to 3600


----------



## Luggage

Yes that is the whole point of x3d - “everything” behaves like cinebench with regards to ram


----------



## user55101

Fight Game said:


> a nice addition to this forum would be a way to pin a post(s) within each thread. So that when newcomers show up and dont have the patience to perform a simple search themselves, we dont have to do it for them....100x


Thank you for your very helpfull comment... Now mister smart ass I did found the link that was the easy part but somehow my computer does not read the files and ask me what app I want to open with... none of them work


----------



## Shanenanigans

user55101 said:


> Thank you for your very helpfull comment... Now mister smart ass I did found the link that was the easy part but somehow my computer does not read the files and ask me what app I want to open with... none of them work


Did you try 7zip?


----------



## BHS1975

BNSoul said:


> Yes maybe it's as you mentioned with regard to 1900 infinity fabric, anticipating this outcome I made sure that my 1:1 1900 profile carried the same settings and used the same low voltage/ power as my 1866 profile, it did absolutely fine and I validated it overnight, at this point my father was telling me I had a gold or maybe platinum sample. My best results have been with this setup but it's just 1-2% tops better than the 1866 profile. S bit more in gaming. Latency is moderately better though (3-4%). Temperature is indeed 1ºC higher when the full bandwidth is being used, which is normal. If I ever get my hands on the vcore offset I'll be using it on my 1866 profile that's for granted (stability).
> 
> As for the LG monitor it's been the best hardware I've bought with my own money, I've always said a strong CPU, good monitor and satisfying keyboard are the most relevant in the desktop PC "experience".


What CPU paste are you using?


----------



## dewzz77

BHS1975 said:


> Je viens de faire une course CB et j’ai obtenu 15216 avec un décalage de -0,628 en utilisant -30 tout le décalage de base, ce qui est le plus élevé jusqu’à présent. J’ai l’Asus B550-F. Quelles sont les meilleures limites pour le jeu?
> [/CITATION]
> lo Lil[/CITATION]
> 
> 
> BHS1975 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Je viens de faire une course CB et j’ai obtenu 15216 avec un décalage de -0,628 en utilisant -30 tout le décalage de base, ce qui est le plus élevé jusqu’à présent. J’ai l’Asus B550-F. Quelles sont les meilleures limites pour le jeu?
> [/CITATION]Salut pouvez-vous prendre une photo de votre option de modification du bios pour les meilleures performances possibles du 5800x3d sur b550 F GAMING s’il vous plaît
> [/CITATION] [/CITATION] [/CITATION] [/CITATION]
Click to expand...


----------



## BCB57

user55101 said:


> Thank you for your very helpfull comment... Now mister smart ass I did found the link that was the easy part but somehow my computer does not read the files and ask me what app I want to open with... none of them work


Google is your friend here...








Sorry for being a smartass


----------



## dewzz77

Thx


----------



## BCB57

OK, you're welcome!


----------



## BNSoul

BHS1975 said:


> What CPU paste are you using?


I think it was Noctua NT-H2, the one my father had lying around. After a couple of months after consolidation 99,99% of thermal pastes perform identically.


----------



## Luggage

BNSoul said:


> Waste of time mate, try again with an actual SC effective clock of a stock 5800X3D CPU, it's not 4550MHz which the regular 5800X can hold easily but somewhere in between 4530-4545 depending on sample. It's so funny when ppl try to prove someone else wrong with a different CPU and a flawed methodology on top of that.
> 
> The difference between the actual effective clock of a stock 5800X3D in Cinebench vs the artificial and unwavering 4550MHz of the regular 5800X is the roughly 1% improvement you're posting. Get actual effective clocks of an average 5800X3D running R23, then manually overclock your 5800X to that average frequency and try again. Good day 👍


"I'm just trying to help you"



http://imgur.com/a/tlNGgfn


----------



## BNSoul

Luggage said:


> "I'm just trying to help you"
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/tlNGgfn


yep effective 4521-4522 while running R23 sounds about right at 100.0MHz BCLK, I'm going with the 1492-1493 results since 1495 is not that realistic and would be a 0.1% occurrence at the very best in more than ideal conditions, almost buggy or triggered by motherboard boosting algorithms injecting additional voltage. Apart from that, you did some precise manual clocking on the regular 5800X. This takes for granted that all 8 cores in the 5800X3D can attain that optimal speed you chose during a R23 SC run, because the overclocking software locks that speed in every core of the regular 5800X, it's practically unwavering since it can do it effortlessly, not 100% comparable but I think you did the best one can do to emulate such behavior and produce results that are within the theoretical limits of a 5800X3D (not the limits of the 5800X, at least not with regard to Cinebench).

But in all honesty I can't see the point in coming to the 5800X3D thread to post results obtained with a 5800X (that doesn't have any max speed limit hardcoded by AMD) running an app such as R23 which favors pure frequency and basically ignores the memory subsystem, I mean what are you trying to prove? The stock 5700X can also do better in this context than a 5800X3D just because of the boost limit. Like what are we supposed to say? What's the intention? What are we supposed to see or discuss? In this thread it's interesting to find the extent as to which the limits imposed by AMD affect effective speed while boosting, but why are we studying what a non-crippled 5800X can produce?


----------



## Luggage

BNSoul said:


> yep effective 4521-4522 while running R23 sounds about right at 100.0MHz BCLK, I'm going with the 1492-1493 results since 1495 is not that realistic and would be a 0.1% occurrence at the very best in more than ideal conditions, almost buggy or triggered by motherboard boosting algorithms injecting additional voltage. Apart from that, you did some precise manual clocking on the regular 5800X. This takes for granted that all 8 cores in the 5800X3D can attain that optimal speed you chose during a R23 SC run, because the overclocking software locks that speed in every core of the regular 5800X, it's practically unwavering since it can do it effortlessly, not 100% comparable but I think you did the best one can do to emulate such behavior and produce results that are within the theoretical limits of a 5800X3D (not the limits of the 5800X, at least not with regard to Cinebench).
> 
> But in all honesty I can't see the point in coming to the 5800X3D thread to post results obtained with a 5800X (that doesn't have any max speed limit hardcoded by AMD) running an app such as R23 which favors pure frequency and basically ignores the memory subsystem, I mean what are you trying to prove? The stock 5700X can also do better in this context than a 5800X3D just because of the boost limit. Like what are we supposed to say? What's the intention? What are we supposed to see or discuss? In this thread it's interesting to find the extent as to which the limits imposed by AMD affect effective speed while boosting, but why are we studying what a non-crippled 5800X can produce?


You quoted ”theoretical max score” - I did a control. Since I can with my cooling and cpu.
I have done this for several other discussions around zen 3 as well. Discussing vcore and boost behavior all over this forum. Theoretical cpu-z 5GHz scores. R23 scores sc and mc at different high manual frequency’s to compare with PBO boost and “efficient freq”. People usually don’t get their panties in a twist… guess I should have dropped it from your initial response.


----------



## foook92

Hi guys.
I want to maximize my C6H, so I'm planning to upgrade my 3800x.
I have a 3080 and play at 3440x1440 @120hz.
I have heck of a doubt between 5800x3d and 5950x. Yes, my mainly usage is gaming, but I also do video editing and after effects for work. I really don't know what to do, the games I mostly play (Squad, PS2, HLL, Elite Dangerous, Tarkov etc.) will have HUGE gains thanks to 3d cache. But also the software I use will get big gains with 16 cores.
Help lol

P.S. My Mobo is a C6H (X370)


----------



## BNSoul

Luggage said:


> You quoted ”theoretical max score” - I did a control. Since I can with my cooling and cpu.
> I have done this for several other discussions around zen 3 as well. Discussing vcore and boost behavior all over this forum. Theoretical cpu-z 5GHz scores. R23 scores sc and mc at different high manual frequency’s to compare with PBO boost and “efficient freq”. People usually don’t get their panties in a twist… guess I should have dropped it from your initial response.


Are you ok there? I've said several times that 1492-1493 is the theoretical max score for single core R23 scores at BCLK 100.0MHz, there was a random discussion on that at my Faculty where I'm studying my bachelor of science and a couple of teachers (computer engineers) who had been using the 5800X3D for a while since it's been replacing other CPUs in the Linux lab corroborated that claim on a tech podcast students do weekly. It was all part of the 5800X3D review.

Since that happened the students have had the opportunity to run their apps at the lab, not just Linux but also Windows 11 since they're dual boot systems. In a sample of 52 5800X3D CPUs we found the average scores (identical systems hardware-wise) and max performance in different apps, including benchmarks. Then in this thread I noticed several users also hitting 1492-1493 in ideal conditions so it was an easy and safe thing for me to corroborate.

Now you're on a crusade for God knows what reason to deny and discredit a forum member and 55+ 5800X3D CPU samples through the use of a 5800X, you're not even benchmarking a 5800X3D, you don't know how the limits are imposed by AMD, you don't know the behavior across all 8 cores, you just manually set your 5800X to a certain speed and this happens to lock all 5800X cores to that speed, unwavering, how is that mirroring the behavior of a 5800X3D? There's no manual all-core overclock for it, you don't know whether all cores in a 5800X3D are going to reach and sustain the speed you dialed on your 5800X, it's a lot of unknown quantities and flawed methodologies for you to do this without a clear purpose ("because you said"), as it stands it's still as I said with regard to the 5800X3D, the users running at 100MHz BCLK are hitting 1492-1493 tops max as the CPU samples back at the lab, corroborating the engineers' findings. I can corroborate it myself as well.

But you?? You're not even using a 5800X3D for this, what you're showing in benchmarks is a regular 5800X that is physically different from a 5800X3D and is allowed to be clocked at unwavering speeds, how is that methodology serving to discredit a claim made solely with regard to the 5800X3D? How are you wasting time and effort while writing your toxic posts implying things like "I got you, I'm a Zen 3 expert and you're a liar" it just makes you look like a crazy individual with a mental illness. You're using a flawed methodology, you're not even showing benchmarks of a 5800X3D, you're just focusing on a 5800X which behaves in different ways and can be adjusted to run at unwavering speeds through manual overclocking which the 5800X3D cannot.

You know what's funny, that by using the guidelines I told you the results ended up resembling the 1492-1493 scores (even hitting straight 1493) I mentioned, so you're even backing my claims! Can't you see? You're even corroborating my claim with your results except the little bit higher scores straying from 1492-1493 are just a result of your 8 cores in a 5800X hitting the same, which isn't guaranteed on a 5800X3D since it cannot be manually overclocked all-core wise. What a weird individual you seem to be to hang out with, what are you doing in the 5800X3D thread with your 5800X benchmarks? Your first attempt was all over the place and looked childish and amateur, I told you you had to use the actual speed of a 5800X3D in your overclock and guess what... you obtained the very numbers I claimed!!! I had to help you figure it out because your first trolling attempt was an embarrassment! you're corroborating my findings and calling me a liar at the same time! how crazy can you be? Are you ok in there?

Listen I'm not the one to say what you can or cannot do in here, but let me tell you you're looking like a mentally sick individual like Don Quijote seeing giants instead of windmills. I said 1492-1493 and you corroborated that following my indications, and you still go and attack me? It's just so crazy I'm even feeling sad for you? Are you okay in there?

So let's see the next experiment for you and your 5800X










This one I already told you after your first trolling attempt, go and replicate in your 5800X the performance exhibited above by the 5800X3D, it's more than twice as fast as the 5800X in a software infinitely more complex than Cinebench.

You're going to say that it's impossible to replicate since the 5800X lacks the stacked layer of L3 cache, well yeah that's exactly the point, you cannot directly compare a 5800X3D vs a 5800X since they're physically different, do you understand? They are just different, the L3 stacked layer on top of the computing cores and the limits imposed by AMD impact its performance in ways you're not going to be able to 100% replicate with a different CPU. It's just logic, you're not using logic, your first trolling attempt was a complete disaster and I had to tell you to use the effective clocks of a 3D CPU since you just set the 5800X to 4550MHz unwavering and all-core and proceeded to call me out from there, you're absolutely wrong and completely crazy. By following my instructions you reached the numbers I was claiming even if the 5800X3D is not guaranteed to do exact performance across its 8 cores in the way a fixed manual overclock allows. Can't you see it? You did corroborate my findings and yet calling me out like a madman on a mission with such a flawed methodology, this is your second trolling attempt and you're going personal against forum members here for absolutely no reason. Your first attempt already did show how clueless you're about all of this. Setting your 5800X to all-core effective 4550MHz clocks and trying to pass it as a 5800X3D, I'm still laughing dude.

So once again, are you okay in there? Can't you see you did corroborate my findings after following my guidelines? Why are you still trying to discredit me? You're absolutely sick in the mind. Go and replicate the benchmark I attached above, I'm gonna put it again:










Hopefully this keeps you entertained and prevents this thread from your repeated trolling attempts, the first attempt was so flawed you had to follow my guidelines and ended up corroborating my findings, our findings, 50+ samples producing the same results. It already shows something is not okay in your head and maybe you're in need of more guidelines to follow.


----------



## Fight Game

user55101 said:


> Thank you for your very helpfull comment... Now mister smart ass


Relax man, it wasn't about you solely. It was, and can be a very helpful addition. Stick around long enough and you'll realize


----------



## BNSoul

Can I ask a favor here? Does any of you own BioShock HD remaster? My old man was testing his 5800X3D (I got one for him at a discounted price since the merchants here are clearing stock for Zen 4 in September) and the game was running at 600-700fps while forced to run on a single core through setting the .exe affinity to t0 and t1. I got the same results on mine (see screenshot below). Was that due to being and old game and fitting all the instruction pipeline within the L3 pool or can anyone with a different Zen 3 compare?? I found it to be a little weird.


----------



## Cuboy

BNSoul said:


> That's super nice result, I really believe we both got nice CPU samples from the silicon lottery. For gaming I have 122 82 124 for modern games heavily multi-threaded and power spikes need to be accounted for, my CO in this case is -19 -27 -19 -24 -25 -24 -28 -29 (-19 for best cores obviously), the rest I found after quite a few hours with core cycler to validate and then aiming for every core to reach at least 4538.5-4539.5 effective clocks boosting with forum member @Mannix "boost tester". Honestly all my cores do at least 4537.9 in the worst case at -30 all-core but I went the extra mile for performance.
> 
> As for less demanding or old games I can loosen power limits down to 116 77 117 with a CO of -22 -28 -22 -26 -27 -26 -29 -30 (always going the extra mile to ensure absolute perfect stability in every core).
> 
> For benching (which I don't think I'll do more until I get a different motherboard or Gigabyte implements the vcore offset option) it depends on the app but you know you can pretty much get away with anything at 114 75 115 -30 all-core.
> 
> Other settings:
> 
> high performance power profile W11 for less demanding games or those with potential for max core boosting. Balanced profile for everything else.
> 
> Global c-states on Auto, the CPU gets its sleep states no problem but I observed increasing boosting occurrence.
> 
> CPPC enabled, preferred cores disabled, high event timer enabled in BIOS but default settings in Windows 11 (which ignores BIOS and uses custom timer values)
> 
> 3800 CL16 dual rank RAM 1:1 with 1900 controller and fabric, with average sub-timings and poor TRFC but thankfully the 5800X3D doesn't care much, (my Zen timing are everywhere in my bench posts)
> My next Kit will be DDR5 when Zen 4 3D is out so I got to stick to what I have now.
> 
> Fans won't get to 100% speed unless the temps approach and surpass 60ºC, they're rather silent thanks goodness.
> 
> GPU set with a custom voltage curve to obtain 99,9% performance at moderately reduced heat and power. Custom fan curve on it as well with 70º being the limit before blasting off the fans.
> 
> I'm using Samsung Evo 970+ EVO and WD sn750 black NVMe drives to avoid unnecessary PCIe.x4 stress and alleviate possible communication bottlenecks. A couple of 870 Evo SATA in there as well, the main reason I'm not even attempting BCLK 101.
> 
> G-Sync 1440p 144HZ LG-27GL850 monitor on top of already frame pacing smooth delivery thanks to the 3D cache CPU.
> 
> Corsair 850x 2021 for all those transient spikes shenanigans and the custom cooling solution we discussed on previous pages that dropped my chipset temperature from 60 to mid 40s ºC. Same but less extreme for memory banks and VRMs.
> 
> A nice mouse and mechanical keyboard 😅
> 
> Have a good one mate 👍


b450m, -30 on all cores, 3200 mhz ram and i get 14948 on cb r23, enough for me...


----------



## BNSoul

Cuboy said:


> View attachment 2568069



b450m, -30 on all cores, 3200 mhz ram and i get 14948 on cb r23, enough for me...
[/QUOTE]

Muy buenas qué tal. That's a solid result, If you're just going to make the X3D sing in games there's no need for further tweaking since temps (and consequently power draw) are much reduced in that context. We use to give Cinebench a lot of importance here since it's the weakest point of the 5800X3D in terms of temps (that hot spot in the CPU that refuses to transfer any heat whatsoever) and performance since clocks are limited by AMD and the Cinebench software doesn't care at all about the memory subsystem, it pretty much just runs 1:1 with core speed and to a lesser extent with core count.


----------



## Luggage

So I corroborated your findings and you are still upset? 🤐 
Peace out.


----------



## Cuboy

BNSoul said:


> Muy buenas qué tal. That's a solid result, If you're just going to make the X3D sing in games there's no need for further tweaking since temps (and consequently power draw) are much reduced in that context. We use to give Cinebench a lot of importance here since it's the weakest point of the 5800X3D in terms of temps (that hot spot in the CPU that refuses to transfer any heat whatsoever) and performance since clocks are limited by AMD and the Cinebench software doesn't care at all about the memory subsystem, it pretty much just runs 1:1 with core speed and to a lesser extent with core count.


Todo bien, y tu?

I could tweak it to get the most performance out of it, but i don't know if a b450 mobo is enough.
Also i could go and overclock my ram, but who cares anyway, i know i could reach 15200 with a greater mobo-ram combo.

What if you did the same? -30 on all cores and 3200 mhz ram, would that be possible?

Meanwhile i'm downloading bioshock remastered which got from epic a while ago 

What i'm curious about is how clock tuner gets the grade/rating of a cpu without having access to the sillicon. There are many variables to a benchmark (chipsets, ram frequency and latency, external temperature etc...). We would need identical setups and a lot of controlled variables to make the assumtion that the sillicon used on your cpu is better than mine, yet, those assumptions are made. Just curious on how they get graded, without having access to wafer


----------



## BNSoul

Cuboy said:


> Todo bien, y tu?
> 
> I could tweak it to get the most performance out of it, but i don't know if a b450 mobo is enough.
> Also i could go and overclock my ram, but who cares anyway, i know i could reach 15200 with a greater mobo-ram combo.
> 
> What if you did the same? -30 on all cores and 3200 mhz ram, would that be possible?
> 
> Meanwhile i'm downloading bioshock remastered which got from epic a while ago


Fenomenal! I want to see my BioShock HD remaster results on someone else's PC since I'm in disbelief, is it a bug? Like if you do the maths it's like 14+ frames per watt, utterly unbelievable even if that's an Xbox 360 game running HD on PC. I guess a fine tuned non X3D CPU won't be much far apart though.

With regard to the RAM comments well yeah there's not much to gain going from a decent 3200 kit to 3800 specs or higher when you're using a X3D CPU, it was literally 20% uplift for Zen 2 and a bit lower for regular Zen 3. The thing is you'd still want the lowest system latency along with increased bandwidth. However it's worth mentioning that raising UCLK and FCLK with high voltages (including SoC) can lead to higher temps with negative performance impact so there's a need for balance here. On the other hand, 1900MHz Infinity Fabric can handle the core to L3, core to core and system memory talks a bit better than 1600 or 1800 to be honest so it's also worth having a decent go.

I tried all possible configs with my ordinary man's dual rank 3600CL16 kit and settled with 3800CL16 settings 1:1 with UCLK and FCLK. The reason was that I validated it (twice - 24 hours stress test) using the same low voltages that I used for 3600 and 3733 configs. Everyone I know at the Computer Engineering Faculty at the University campus keep saying I got a Platinum CPU sample but that's not imprinted anywhere in the CPU so you just can have a hunch about it. I searched for a 2207 week sample since those were the ones handed out to main outlets for review so I thought they would be tailored to get the best possible feedback and eWom (electronic word of mouth, marketing).

What cooling solution are you using mate?

Edit: I noticed you asked me to run CB23 with a 3200MT/S RAM config with the usual 114 75 115 -30 all-core settings, as I commented above I've tried everything with this RAM kit and Cinebench won't change much if anything. I can tell you that the result was something around 15200 on a hot weather day so within margin of error compared to my best runs.


----------



## Cuboy

BNSoul said:


> Can I ask a favor here? Does any of you own BioShock HD remaster? My old man was testing his 5800X3D (I got one for him at a discounted price since the merchants here are clearing stock for Zen 4 in September) and the game was running at 600-700fps while forced to run on a single core through setting the .exe affinity to t0 and t1. I got the same results on mine (see screenshot below). Was that due to being and old game and fitting all the instruction pipeline within the L3 pool or can anyone with a different Zen 3 compare?? I found it to be a little weird.
> 
> View attachment 2568069


I lose 100 fps when running the game on cpu 0 and cpu 1 instead of all cores, from 600 to 500


----------



## BNSoul

Cuboy said:


> I lose 100 fps when running the game on cpu 0 and cpu 1 instead of all cores, from 600 to 500


Yeah the game code is designed to run at the very least on two cores (you'll notice this limitation in loading screens and vending machines running on just one core), but you're still getting 500+ fps on one core right??


----------



## Cuboy

BNSoul said:


> Yeah the game code is designed to run at the very least on two cores (you'll notice this limitation in loading screens and vending machines running on just one core), but you're still getting 500+ fps on one core right??


Yes, i'm getting 500+ fps in one core, same cpu affinity as you showed in the screenshot


----------



## BNSoul

Cuboy said:


> Yes, i'm getting 500+ fps in one core, same cpu affinity as you showed in the screenshot


Well I'll let you know how it runs on a non-X3D CPU whenever I have the chance, maybe I'm making a fuss out of nothing 😅


----------



## Cuboy

BNSoul said:


> Fenomenal! I want to see my BioShock HD remaster results on someone else's PC since I'm in disbelief, is it a bug? Like if you do the maths it's like 14+ frames per watt, utterly unbelievable even if that's an Xbox 360 game running HD on PC. I guess a fine tuned non X3D CPU won't be much far apart though.
> 
> With regard to the RAM comments well yeah there's not much to gain going from a decent 3200 kit to 3800 specs or higher when you're using a X3D CPU, it was literally 20% uplift for Zen 2 and a bit lower for regular Zen 3. The thing is you'd still want the lowest system latency along with increased bandwidth. However it's worth mentioning that raising UCLK and FCLK with high voltages (including SoC) can lead to higher temps with negative performance impact so there's a need for balance here. On the other hand, 1900MHz Infinity Fabric can handle the core to L3, core to core and system memory talks a bit better than 1600 or 1800 to be honest so it's also worth having a decent go.
> 
> I tried all possible configs with my ordinary man's dual rank 3600CL16 kit and settled with 3800CL16 settings 1:1 with UCLK and FCLK. The reason was that I validated it (twice - 24 hours stress test) using the same low voltages that I used for 3600 and 3733 configs. Everyone I know at the Computer Engineering Faculty at the University campus keep saying I got a Platinum CPU sample but that's not imprinted anywhere in the CPU so you just can have a hunch about it. I searched for a 2207 week sample since those were the ones handed out to main outlets for review so I thought they would be tailored to get the best possible feedback and eWom (electronic word of mouth, marketing).
> 
> What cooling solution are you using mate?
> 
> Edit: I noticed you asked me to run CB23 with a 3200MT/S RAM config with the usual 114 75 115 -30 all-core settings, as I commented above I've tried everything with this RAM kit and Cinebench won't change much if anything. I can tell you that the result was something around 15200 on a hot weather day so within margin of error compared to my best runs.


Hmm interesting, didn't know that amd gave better samples to main outlets. Didn't consider that.

I'm using a deepcool ak 620.


----------



## BNSoul

Cuboy said:


> Hmm interesting, didn't know that amd gave better samples to main outlets. Didn't consider that.
> 
> I'm using a deepcool ak 620.


They don't change anything in the manufacturing line, but it's common sense to think that they tested the CPUs before handing them out looking to filter out those that would refuse to do 1900 FCLK/UCLK at low voltages, for instance.

So it's always interesting to know the manufacturing date of the samples when reviews are generally positive. To be honest, when they're so focused on Zen 4 production they're highly unlikely to change anything in the 5800X3D production so, in this sense, CPU samples' ranking should basically depend on the quality of the substrate itself.


----------



## Cuboy

BNSoul said:


> They don't change anything in the manufacturing line, but it's common sense to think that they tested the CPUs before handing them out looking to filter out those that would refuse to do 1900 FCLK/UCLK at low voltages, for instance.
> 
> So it's always interesting to know the manufacturing date of the samples when reviews are generally positive. To be honest, when they're so focused on Zen 4 production they're highly unlikely to change anything in the 5800X3D production so, in this sense, CPU samples' ranking should basically depend on the quality of the substrate itself.


Just done a geekbench test, there might be something wrong atm, because i'm getting -1000 score on multicore compared to others:


----------



## BNSoul

Cuboy said:


> Just done a geekbench test, there might be something wrong atm, because i'm getting -1000 score on multicore compared to others:
> 
> View attachment 2568073


Yeah obtaining a margin of error result in single core and a less than average multi-core ranking is a clear sign of CPU throttling and/or RAM running not in synchrony with infinity fabric. Run it again but do have hardware info 64 in the background so we can assess temperatures, voltages and whatnot. Take a screenshot.

Use the following limits: 122 82 124 with the following curve: -15 best cores and -25 for the remaining 6 cores.


----------



## Cuboy

BNSoul said:


> Yeah obtaining a margin of error result in single core and a less than average multi-core ranking is a clear sign of CPU throttling and/or RAM running not in synchrony with infinity fabric. Run it again but do have hardware info 64 in the background so we can assess temperatures, voltages and whatnot. Take a screenshot.
> 
> Use the following limits: 122 82 124 with the following curve: -15 best cores and -25 for the remaining 6 cores.


Same result, adding screenshot in a moment


----------



## BNSoul

Cuboy said:


> Same result


Do you mind sharing the status of HWInfo64 running while the benchmark is within 1:30-1:48 minutes (just about to end) ?


----------



## Cuboy

BNSoul said:


> Do you mind sharing the status of HWInfo64 running while the benchmark is within 1:30-1:48 minutes (just about to end) ?


Here you go:


----------



## Jabdah

BNSoul said:


> Can I ask a favor here? Does any of you own BioShock HD remaster? My old man was testing his 5800X3D (I got one for him at a discounted price since the merchants here are clearing stock for Zen 4 in September) and the game was running at 600-700fps while forced to run on a single core through setting the .exe affinity to t0 and t1. I got the same results on mine (see screenshot below). Was that due to being and old game and fitting all the instruction pipeline within the L3 pool or can anyone with a different Zen 3 compare?? I found it to be a little weird.
> 
> View attachment 2568069


Ni siquiera puedo recordar ese juego  es tan viejo, incluso mi abuela no puede recordar  uh oh well, that was my fault.... i was going to say.. Jesus... das Spiel ist aber echt alt


----------



## BNSoul

Jabdah said:


> Ni siquiera puedo recordar ese juego  es tan viejo, incluso mi abuela no puede recordar  uh oh well, that was my fault.... i was going to say.. Jesus... das Spiel ist aber echt alt


Yeah but it does seem like a good test for single core stress lol 😅


----------



## Cuboy

BNSoul said:


> Yeah but it does seem like a good test for single core stress lol 😅


Any idea on why the -1000 score on multicore test? I got a wood sample it seems


----------



## cferg10

As someone who only games on their PC...how stupid on a scale of 10 would you rate me selling my 5800x for a 5800x3d to pair with my 6900xt at 1440p when a lot of games I play are sim based


----------



## Cuboy

cferg10 said:


> As someone who only games on their PC...how stupid on a scale of 10 would you rate me selling my 5800x for a 5800x3d to pair with my 6900xt at 1440p when a lot of games I play are sim based


The ultimate question here would be if what you play beneffits from the extra l3 cache or not. Usually fps games get a huge beneffit from this cpu. In my case i bought it mainly for productivity reasons (Heavy compiling, massive parallel tasks to name a few) since the cpu i had wasn't great for the task, but also for some gaming.

So ultimately you're the judge, it's a pretty expensive cpu and you've got a great one already.


----------



## cferg10

Cuboy said:


> The ultimate question here would be if what you play beneffits from the extra l3 cache or not. Usually fps games get a huge beneffit from this cpu. In my case i bought it mainly for productivity reasons (Heavy compiling, massive parallel tasks to name a few) since the cpu i had wasn't great for the task, but also for some gaming.
> 
> So ultimately you're the judge, it's a pretty expensive cpu and you've got a great one already.


Agree. With the discount on Ebay to get it at $377...I was thinking about just pulling the trigger because I am likely skipping the next gen of AMD due to cost of mobo/ram...

Ive looked at a ton of benchmarks and reviews and just really don't know if it would be a smart purchase or not.


----------



## Cuboy

cferg10 said:


> Agree. With the discount on Ebay to get it at $377...I was thinking about just pulling the trigger because I am likely skipping the next gen of AMD due to cost of mobo/ram...
> 
> Ive looked at a ton of benchmarks and reviews and just really don't know if it would be a smart purchase or not.


Well, for that price is a no brainer, i got mine for 460.

If you can get it for that price and take a small loss selling the 5800x, why not...


----------



## BNSoul

Cuboy said:


> Here you go:
> 
> View attachment 2568076


Yes you're getting over 80ºC so the CPU is throttling (unless that max temp reading happened during a different test), did you reset/restart HWInfo64 before running geek bench 5? If there's indeed throttling (not uncommon) we can talk about your fans arrangement blowing cool air into the CPU socket and VRMs if you aren't already.


----------



## BNSoul

cferg10 said:


> I am likely skipping the next gen of AMD due to cost of mobo/ram...


Generally speaking you'd want to avoid the first few months of a new platform (new socket, new chipset, new drivers....) until they iron out the rough edges, no one wants to pay a premium to be a beta tester. The 5800X3D even if cutting edge tech is part of an established family of CPUs, motherboard, AGESA BIOS and chipset drivers. It's the result of years of experience and expertise with the AM4 platform.


----------



## cferg10

BNSoul said:


> Generally speaking you'd want to avoid the first few months of a new platform (new socket, new chipset, new drivers....) until they iron out the raw edges, no one wants to pay a premium to be a beta tester. The 5800X3D even if cutting edge tech is part of an established family of CPUs, motherboard, AGESA BIOS and chipset drivers. It's the result of years of experience and expertise with the AM4 platform.


As someone who took it to the chin on x99, DDR4 and even early AM4...it's why Ive decided to skip the generation (well that and wedding expenses)...I feel like the most Ill be able to upgrade till 2024 is going to be this chip and 7xxx series GPU...so that's why I am leaning towards it


----------



## BNSoul

Cuboy said:


> Any idea on why the -1000 score on multicore test? I got a wood sample it seems


CPU throttling due to the infamous hot spot in the CPU package (interposer, mostly), did you see my post with photos of my fans setup? I managed to stay within 70-72C during heavy benchmarking in the summer weather and 42-48C while gaming thanks to the cool airflow that is bathing the CPU socket at all times. I can repost but I don't want to spam (even more) the forum.


----------



## BNSoul

Cuboy said:


> Heavy compiling, massive parallel tasks to name a few).
> 
> So ultimately you're the judge, it's a pretty expensive cpu and you've got a great one already.


Will you be you using Linux for the tasks you mentioned? Also, I agree if you're already a Zen 3 user and you don't usually play competitive first-third person shooters online/MMOs/open world games (most of the aforementioned are oftentimes CPU bound) then maybe it's better to buy a new GPU when they get released this Fall and run your games at 4K. However, if you're a fan of such genres then you need a 5800X3D period, I'm willing to bet the Spiderman game Sony is releasing in a matter of days will run beautifully on X3D CPUs, these games fit their chunks of instructions with regard to system logic, NPC AI routines/triggers, background asset streaming, draw calls, physics and real time RNG world events nicely within the generous L3 cache pool.


----------



## Cuboy

BNSoul said:


> CPU throttling due to the infamous hot spot in the CPU package (interposer, mostly), did you see my post with photos of my fans setup? I managed to stay within 70-72C during heavy benchmarking in the summer weather and 42-48C while gaming thanks to the cool airflow that is bathing the CPU socket at all times. I can repost but I don't want to spam (even more) the forum.


I need a fan at the back. and another fan at the front

I have one fan at the front which takes in air, and the cpu cooler, that's it.

Maybe a new tower, which one do you use?

Also managed to get similar scores to yours on cpu-z (around 6500 multicore and 515 single core).


----------



## Cuboy

BNSoul said:


> Will you be you using Linux for the tasks you mentioned? Also, I agree if you're already a Zen 3 user and you don't usually play competitive first-third person shooters online/MMOs/open world games (most of the aforementioned are oftentimes CPU bound) then maybe it's better to buy a new GPU when they get released this Fall and run your games at 4K. However, if you're a fan of such genres then you need a 5800X3D period, I'm willing to bet the Spiderman game Sony is releasing in a matter of days will run beautifully on X3D CPUs, these games fit their chunks of instructions with regard to system logic, NPC AI routines/triggers, background asset streaming, draw calls, physics and real time RNG world events nicely within the generous L3 cache pool.


Yes, i use linux or wsl2.
I think there is a bright future for amd and the 3d series, it is impressive the gains that you can pull on different games (Not that i am a super gamer, i just play one casually).
At the moment i have a low-mid end gpu (1660S) and i don't need more, so i plan on keeping it as long as possible. 1080 is good enough for me.

I'm in love with the cpu and i cannot say bad things about it, more than pricing. It's in the edge of a new gen and i had the same discussion regarding zen 4 vs 3d. Obviously waiting is preferred if you have a great cpu already or upgraded recently to intel, in my case a 2600 wasn't enough for the task at hand, and the cpu was suffering at my main game (previously i had 50-60 fps on average), while right now, i average more than a 100 with the same gpu. Intel had the lead because of the better single core results on that particular game, right now 3d wins by a lot.

If you're particularly into gaming i would recommend this over a 5950x or a i9 12900k, you'll get better performance out of it for a cheaper price.


----------



## 67091

My 5800X3D tuned waiting on a 4080


----------



## BNSoul

Cuboy said:


> I need a fan at the back. and another fan at the front
> 
> I have one fan at the front which takes in air, and the cpu cooler, that's it.
> 
> Maybe a new tower, which one do you use?
> 
> Also managed to get similar scores to yours on cpu-z (around 6500 multicore and 515 single core).
> 
> View attachment 2568112


Don't use -40 in the voltage curve!!! That's not supported and if for reason it goes through it would just render the PC unstable with tons of clock stretching, I think if you input anything higher than 30 the system takes 30 anyways.

That's not my CPU-Z results, I always get 629-630 SC and 6520-6550 Multi (not that it matters much)










to be fair I don't like CPU-Z as a benchmark, Cinebench will cycle through the different cores and sustain boosts for several minutes, so a result of 1492 or so in CB23 SC is proof that single core speed is at its peak, most samples should easily attain 1492-1493 which is the theoretical max with AMD limitations in place, I sometimes hit 1494 but that's rare, at least with this scorching hot weather.

See this screenshot I took, this kind of scores and effective clocks only happen when there's no throttling, this is pretty much the performance ceiling of the CPU in this test











With regard to the cooling solution you need a couple of high speed fans to cool down all the critical areas (VRMs, memory banks, CPU socket)... so my setup is a custom DIY, I removed the fan in the middle of the DRP4 and attached high speed 12x25 and swp4 pro fans to the sides of the cooling tower while reversing the one at back of the case so it supports air intake, the purpose for all of this is creating enough air pressure for the airflow to remain in the CPU socket area and then get dragged down pushed by the fans at the top in its way out to the exhausts below. The CPU package doesn't really get warm, you'll notice the cooling tower is always cool to the touch, it'd the hotspot near the transposer that quickly heats up and cools down that needs addressing. Look at my setup here










The fans on the sides of the cooling tower are pushing air in, there's no fan in the middle so it creates pressure there thanks to the DRP4 front plate so the airflow gets pushed back into the CPU socket and VRMs. Fans on the top also help a lot, it wouldn't work without them, I shaved off at least 10ºC with this setup, CPU idles at 26-27 chipset rarely hits 50 VRMs are in the low-mid 20s and the CPU hits 69-71 during heavy benchmarking and barely 47-48 during a typical game session, even lower for less demanding games. So no throttling whatsoever, that's what you should be aiming for before anything else.


----------



## lestatdk

cferg10 said:


> As someone who only games on their PC...how stupid on a scale of 10 would you rate me selling my 5800x for a 5800x3d to pair with my 6900xt at 1440p when a lot of games I play are sim based


I just did this exact upgrade. It's a massive difference in VR which is what I mostly play. I had some annoying stutters from time to time , they are completely gone now.


----------



## konjiki7

My Aorus master x570 v1.0 just died....
Current setup 5800x3d ,6900xt , 4000cl15 32gb(B-die) looking for some good mem oc support and maybe some bclk oc

I'm thinking MSI MEG ACE MAX or one of the Asus ch8 boards.... A little worried about the Ch8 dark hero (There's 8+ open box boards at the local microcenter for some reason....)


----------



## cferg10

lestatdk said:


> I just did this exact upgrade. It's a massive difference in VR which is what I mostly play. I had some annoying stutters from time to time , they are completely gone now.


I sold my VR stuff awhile back but I still do MSFS and iRacing plus other sim racing games, a single MMO, some FPS and a lot of older RTS/Turn Based games...I am trying to figure out how much I will actually gain with this. The benchmarks and reviews don't cover a lot of what I need


----------



## lestatdk

cferg10 said:


> I sold my VR stuff awhile back but I still do MSFS and iRacing plus other sim racing games, a single MMO, some FPS and a lot of older RTS/Turn Based games...I am trying to figure out how much I will actually gain with this. The benchmarks and reviews don't cover a lot of what I need


I recall seeing a video with some MSFS tests and the X3D gave a massive boost. It might have been in VR though


----------



## Luggage

konjiki7 said:


> My Aorus master x570 v1.0 just died....
> Current setup 5800x3d ,6900xt , 4000cl15 32gb(B-die) looking for some good mem oc support and maybe some bclk oc
> 
> I'm thinking MSI MEG ACE MAX or one of the Asus ch8 boards.... A little worried about the Ch8 dark hero (There's 8+ open box boards at the local microcenter for some reason....)


The ace is just a unify with rgb and intel nic, you can save some money.
Or for memory OC the b550 unify-x if you have two dimms.

edit: oh, the MAX. Well the same should apply to the s max cards?

edit2: ok I looked them up and the x570s max ace and unify-x are more different now. Still for memory OC the x570s and b550 unify-x _should_ be better since they are 2 DIMMs, but with the whea problems over 3733/3800 it might not be worth it. Especially with the x3d.


----------



## 67091

So does anyone know the CO going to be an official part of the bios in the coming future for the 5800X3D?


----------



## jacklayton17

Lionvibez said:


> View attachment 2556582
> 
> 
> Direct link here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Debug.7z
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


How come when I hit download on this it doesn't download a folder it just downloads some random .7z file that the computer doesn't know what to do with?


----------



## 1ah1

jacklayton17 said:


> How come when I hit download on this it doesn't download a folder it just downloads some random .7z file that the computer doesn't know what to do with?


*use WinRAR to extract the 7z file*


----------



## Blameless

1ah1 said:


> *use WinRAR*


Or even 7-Zip...


----------



## gffermari

cferg10 said:


> As someone who only games on their PC...how stupid on a scale of 10 would you rate me selling my 5800x for a 5800x3d to pair with my 6900xt at 1440p when a lot of games I play are sim based


Since you invested so much money on a gpu and you’ll probably continue doing it, that’s the cpu for you.
I was between 5950X and 3D but after the reviews, I sold my 3700X and pulled the trigger for the 3D. (Ok the difference in my case was huge. The 3700X has never been a very good gaming cpu but a very good all arounder)


Selling everything and moving to Zen 4 in order to get the 3Ds performance in games is stupid.
Upgrading to the best cpu your platform supports is the sane choice.


----------



## Lionvibez

gffermari said:


> Since you invested so much money on a gpu and you’ll probably continue doing it, that’s the cpu for you.
> I was between 5950X and 3D but after the reviews, I sold my 3700X and pulled the trigger for the 3D. (Ok the difference in my case was huge. The 3700X has never been a very good gaming cpu but a very good all arounder)
> 
> 
> Selling everything and moving to Zen 4 in order to get the 3Ds performance in games is stupid.
> Upgrading to the best cpu your platform supports is the sane choice.


I'm on a 5800x+6800XT on 3440x1440 and I've been thinking about it but the gains won't be that large at this res to be honest.

Going from Zen 2 anything to Zen 3 is a large boost but at 1440p and above from 5800X to 5800X3D may not be worth it.


----------



## cferg10

Lionvibez said:


> I'm on a 5800x+6800XT on 3440x1440 and I've been thinking about it but the gains won't be that large at this res to be honest.
> 
> Going from Zen 2 anything to Zen 3 is a large boost but at 1440p and above from 5800X to 5800X3D may not be worth it.


It's really hit and miss. There are some games that absolutely loves that extra cache at 1440p but then a lot that doesn't.


----------



## OCmember

The minimums is what you want increased, in-case it's forgotten.


----------



## BNSoul

tcclaviger said:


> Curve Optimizer can be used using the pbo2 tuner but it doesn't need to be. That's why I mentioned it behaves differently than other Zen 3 CPUs, simply dropping the Curve for each core does not necessarily produce a better results like it does on all the other Zen 3s.
> It's so low voltage stock that it ends up dropping voltage to a point where it no longer boosts properly and instead gets stuck at like 4 ghz when using more than -10 CO values for my sample. It's also not TDC/EDC/PPT limited through virtue of not hitting the limiters, so less power doesn't help anything.


well this turned to not be true at all? We've got plenty of users here getting increased scores similar or better than stock with zero clock stretching after applying a curve all the way down to -30 all-core. We also get boosting over 4.45 well into nominal 4.55 despite the voltage drop. Maybe that sample was defective/ or tested a badly coded BIOS/ borked AGESA.


----------



## freedom1

Friends, please tell me which operating system is better for 5800x3d, Windows 10 or 11? I appreciate all your advice.


----------



## jvidia

freedom1 said:


> Friends, please tell me which operating system is better for 5800x3d, Windows 10 or 11? I appreciate all your advice.


10 suports 5800X3D?


----------



## freedom1

jvidia said:


> 10 suports 5800X3D?


Why not?


----------



## BNSoul

This CPU is amazing !! Cinebench R23 bench at stock 100.0MHz BCLK, *1494 *Single Core - *15341 *Multi core, I think this is the best multi-core result I got so far (single core already hitting the limit though), when I say "amazing" I mean that even with significant power limits in place and a voltage curve all the way down to -30 all-core the chip barely breaks a sweat while delivering 100% performance. Effective clocks serve as a proof, they are even better than those at stock limits, simply perfect with no clock stretching at all. Let's see when the cold weather comes to Spain in the fall/winter if this can get even better, power deviation at 102% so I still have some margin


----------



## BHS1975

BNSoul said:


> View attachment 2568310
> 
> 
> This CPU is amazing !! Cinebench R23 bench at stock 100.0MHz BCLK, *1494 *Single Core - *15341 *Multi core, I think this is the best multi-core result I got so far (single core already hitting the limit though), when I say "amazing" I mean that even with significant power limits in place and a voltage curve all the way down to -30 all-core the chip barely breaks a sweat while delivering 100% performance. Effective clocks serve as a proof, they are even better than those at stock limits, simply perfect with no clock stretching at all. Let's see when the cold weather comes to Spain in the fall/winter if this can get even better, power deviation at 102% so I still have some margin


Mine is at 102% too. Does that mean I can undervolt it more?


----------



## BNSoul

BHS1975 said:


> Mine is at 102% too. Does that mean I can undervolt it more?


A telemetry reporting between 97% and 103% power usage under a stable, full load scenario is considered correctly calibrated by the motherboard manufacturer, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't aim for exact 100%. When the motherboard reports 102% power usage the CPU is 2% more aggressive trying to keep itself within the power envelope by reducing effective boost clocks a bit and sustaining peak speed shorter. So yeah in this case a very slight Vcore undervolt or more aggressive PBO2 Tuner limits should help even if just a 0.75% overall gain. Temperatures should increase accordingly though.

The real problema would be having a CPU the likes of a 5800X3D with underreported power usage, leading to higher voltages and much higher temps as the CPU tries to yield the target performance with already proper voltages set in BIOS... I mean this trick can be done on a CPU such as the 3700X in order for manufacturers to get an easy overclock/performance bump, but the 3D CPU is just too sensitive to voltage and temperatures (not to mention AMD in place locks), so the vast majority of manufacturers will stick to proper telemetry.


----------



## Fight Game

The msi tomahawk b550 finally got a bios update. only thing I've noticed being different so far is the kombo strike.


----------



## BNSoul

Fight Game said:


> The msi tomahawk b550 finally got a bios update. only thing I've noticed being different so far is the kombo strike.


Is it better than good old PBO2 Tuner? I've got mixed feedback in that regard.


----------



## gffermari

Lionvibez said:


> I'm on a 5800x+6800XT on 3440x1440 and I've been thinking about it but the gains won't be that large at this res to be honest.
> 
> Going from Zen 2 anything to Zen 3 is a large boost but at 1440p and above from 5800X to 5800X3D may not be worth it.


I'm on the same screen resolution. I agree with you. For me it was easier to upgrade since my previous cpu was a 3700X.

It's not worth upgrading if you don't seek the absolute performance now.
You can wait the next gen of cpus and gpus and decide accordingly.


----------



## CCoR

lunatik said:


> I don't know how to measure a difference, but it has always caused latency/packet loss issues for me in multi core games (warzone).
> Might be related to network adapter too tho, RSS maybe? Anyway with c states off, they are completely gone.


What BIOS settings (CSTATES and CPPC ect) and RSS values do you recommend for warzone to minimize with latency/packetloss? ty


----------



## OCmember

Who's hanging on to their 5800X3D chip for a while? There's some juicy rumors with Raphael! I love my 5800X3D gaming machine and don't think I'll give it up for a long while even if I build a 7k series 3D gaming machine. It'll have to be a 100% solid rig before I let this platform go. Plus I have a NIB unopened 5800X3D 2214PGS that I could still toy with. If it could do 2000 FCLK that'd be fun..


----------



## foook92

OCmember said:


> Who's hanging on to their 5800X3D chip for a while? There's some juicy rumors with Raphael! I love my 5800X3D gaming machine and don't think I'll give it up for a long while even if I build a 7k series 3D gaming machine. It'll have to be a 100% solid rig before I let this platform go. Plus I have a NIB unopened 5800X3D 2214PGS that I could still toy with. If it could do 2000 FCLK that'd be fun..


I just bought my 5800X3D, and I think it will last at least 2 years in my rig. I'm happy as a baby because I can put it on my beloved C6H (bought in 2017 with a 1700!), and coming from a 3800x should be a nice upgrade ^^.


----------



## BNSoul

OCmember said:


> Who's hanging on to their 5800X3D chip for a while? There's some juicy rumors with Raphael! I love my 5800X3D gaming machine and don't think I'll give it up for a long while even if I build a 7k series 3D gaming machine. It'll have to be a 100% solid rig before I let this platform go. Plus I have a NIB unopened 5800X3D 2214PGS that I could still toy with. If it could do 2000 FCLK that'd be fun..


The question is, is there going to be any game or day to day desktop app out there that will need more power than that delivered by a 5800X3D + 3080/3090 combo in the foreseeable future? The answer would be "no" except if you want to play at 240Hz / fps or more. No doubt the 7800X3D will be faster and cooler, the same as the 9800X3D after it, you just can't wait forever since there's always something nicer in the horizon.

I'm not sure if I'm that eager to pay extra space bucks for a new motherboard, new DDR5 RAM kit and all that jazz for a 7800X3D just to have nicer Cinebench numbers and 30-35% better frames when I'm already maxing out my 1440p 144fps monitor every time I plug my RTX 3090 (sometimes I use a 2070 Super for some weeks when I'm playing older games or just can't quit my Factorio addiction). However, I'll be very much first in line for Zen 5 X3D since the platform should have matured with bugless AGESA and chipset drivers, not to mention cheaper prices.


----------



## BNSoul

Some user used a tuned 5700X (4700MHz single-core, 4575MHz flatline all-core) running R23, below his best result after a bunch of runs:










I'll go with my best result with a non-overclocked 100.0 MHz 5800X3D (1494 SC, 15341 multi) in order to compare, below HWInfo64 for both CPUs during said runs










Quick thoughts:

-Tuned 5700X got a 3% increase in single-core score, matching the 3% increase in clock frequencies, Cinebench does not care at all about the memory subsystem, let alone large L3 cache pools.

-Tuned 5700X got a 0.19% better score (30 points out of 15300+, within margin of error) despite frequencies running unwavering 2.85% higher than those of the X3D at 100.0MHz BCLK, so the performance is not scaling 1:1 here and in my eyes it's a win for the 5800X3D, producing within margin of error similar results at a close to 3% deficit in clock speeds.

- The tuned 5700X draws considerably more power, runs hotter (well this largely depends on how you're cooling your 5800X3D, but definitely super hot temps for a 5700X, 82+ ºC !!) and runs on a much higher voltage as well during this heavy load task. All in all another win for the 5800X3D here considering the results mentioned above.

- In gaming, no matter if you run the 5700X to it's absolute (unsafe) limits you're not getting anywhere the frame delivery and frame pacing consistency of the X3D counterpart, because here it's the additional L3 pool what gets the job done and you're not getting that on any Zen 3 but the 5800X3D. TLDR: The X3D destroys the 5700X in gaming.

I wonder if Zen 4 7600X - 7700X could also lose to the 5800X3D in some titles despite their much higher running frequencies, increased L2 cache, IPC improvements and DDR5... that would be really interesting to see. However, no one will be able to refute their benchmark results, however real-world apps like those taking advantage of L3 cache while running on Linux should remain a quite different story.


----------



## gffermari

The 7600X and 7700X will be faster than the 3D in gaming. They have an insane increase in frequency and a noticable bump in L2 cache. The thing is how fast the 13600K will be. If it's 10% or more faster, then a 7800X3D will be released to take the crown back.
But considering how low the frequencies are on our 5800X3D and what it delivers, it's safe to say that a 7800X3D will easily destroy anything Intel come up with. 
Even a hypothetical 5Ghz 5800X3D would easily destroy anything out there.

Personally, i plan to keep this build for quite long time and just swapping the gpus.
At least 2 gens of them will make their way to this system.

Just for info:

Using PBO2 Tuner (-30 all cores)
4550 single boost core on all cores
4450 full load on OCCT
4350 full load on R23
mediocre results on CPUZ, because my core 0 is not the best. Forcing it to use the best core, the ST result is ok.


----------



## BNSoul

gffermari said:


> ...


How are you not getting 4450 all-core? Also, CPU-Z or Cinebench are not a metric for anything meaningful really, clock frequency is just another variable to be factored in, be it in single or multi core results. The X3D can be sitting at the bottom of the benchmarks and still win by a considerable margin in Far Cry, Assetto C, Factorio, UE4 games, Tarkov, Path of Exile, World of Warcraft, CoD Warzone, Watchdog Legions, Division 2, Star Citizen, BF, Riftbreaker, Valorant, GTA and many, many others that I haven't tested personally but I've seen in reputable benchmarks.

Most of the above titles cannot be matched in performance by other Zen 3 CPUs just by upping frequencies, that's why I still got my reservations with regard to the 7600-7700 vs 5800X3D debate, of course there's also the IPC and L2 increase along with DDR5 but I'm sure in some titles it won't be enough.

In this sense, unless the 7800X3D brings some killer feature (such as no more hotspots in the CPU due to unoptimized interposer) I don't think a 5800X3D user should upgrade to it. A new GPU should be much cheaper and equally as effective.


----------



## BNSoul

gffermari said:


> OCCT pics


How come I never tried the benchmark available in OCCT??

edit: update, got best result in database for both single core tests:






















original post:

Well I did run the tests in order at 100.0MHz stock BCLK (no overclock) but with PBO2 Tuner set to 122 82 124 and a custom curve of -19* -27 -19** -24 -25 -24 -28 -29 for single core tests (* = best core ** = 2nd best) and the usual 114 75 115 -30 all-core for multi-core tests.

Single core tests... I ended up matching the best results on the database (my results in the blue bar in the graph), just 0.01 away from the absolute best, I guess since there's the AMD clock speed limit in place anyone running a decent curve should hit these numbers and it's not by chance I got basically the same result as the top spot in the database. However, the top result was achieved with a 0.03 higher voltage than the voltage resulting from my curve (1.19 vs mine at 1.16). Maybe I could have improved it with that extra punch but I didn't care to test much longer.




















and then the multi-core tests, here it's abundantly clear that the top score in the database is undervolting the CPU down to 1.07v and it's amazing they're still achieving 100% of the performance, just wow. I don't have such Vcore offset option in my motherboard BIOS so I had to settle with the -30 all-core curve. I wasn't far though, still above the average with a lower voltage. Definitely impressed with that undervolting from the top spot, do you guys want to try and share your results with your custom voltage curves? I wonder if the ones hitting the worst results in the database were overheating and/or using higher power limits than needed.




















and with this these tests I think I don't have anything left to benchmark, time to play some Assetto Corsa

🏎 🏎 🏎


----------



## lunatik

CCoR said:


> What BIOS settings (CSTATES and CPPC ect) and RSS values do you recommend for warzone to minimize with latency/packetloss? ty


Can't really recommend anything atm tbh.. Currently don't have that much free time to test.

Recently switched back to older bios hoping to fix core 0 not boosting over 4450 on multicore load (bclk 107/102.3) but still same issue.

Atm i only have 2 profiles in bios.

1.102.3 bclk, c states enabled, soc/uncore enabled, df states-cppc-cppc pref on auto. ~3850mhz ram 1t 32gb cl15 (It 's my "safe" and stable profile)


2. 107 bclk with everything previous disabled and smt off. 1.35v manual vcore. (Few tests on multiplayer warmup with bots atleast shows more gain with this setup since im hitting the custom 333 fps limit on 1440p low settings which i haven't seen previously and lows seem to be 15-25 fps higher )

Gpu is 6700xt

Still so much weirdness going on to figure everything out 

Latency is something you have to figure out yourself mostly..there isn't any one size fits all solution. Just check your frametimes (not fps) in warzone and see how it behaves.


----------



## BNSoul

lunatik said:


> Recently switched back to older bios hoping to fix core 0 not boosting over 4450 on multicore load (bclk 107/102.3) but still same issue.


that core won't follow the basic multiplier*BCLK formula? So the problem is that it is enforcing a hard coded 4450Mhz multi-core load frequency lock, how weird... is that a best or 2nd best core?


----------



## lunatik

BNSoul said:


> that core won't follow the basic multiplier*BCLK formula? So the problem is that it is enforcing a hard coded 4450Mhz multi-core load frequency lock, how weird... is that a best or 2nd best core?


I think core 4 and 6 were best.
Core 0 will boost to 4550 when single core tho but others would boost to 4.660 when single core..


----------



## CCoR

lunatik said:


> Can't really recommend anything atm tbh.. Currently don't have that much free time to test.
> 
> Recently switched back to older bios hoping to fix core 0 not boosting over 4450 on multicore load (bclk 107/102.3) but still same issue.
> 
> Atm i only have 2 profiles in bios.
> 
> 1.102.3 bclk, c states enabled, soc/uncore enabled, df states-cppc-cppc pref on auto. ~3850mhz ram 1t 32gb cl15 (It 's my "safe" and stable profile)
> 
> 
> 2. 107 bclk with everything previous disabled and smt off. 1.35v manual vcore. (Few tests on multiplayer warmup with bots atleast shows more gain with this setup since im hitting the custom 333 fps limit on 1440p low settings which i haven't seen previously and lows seem to be 15-25 fps higher )
> 
> Gpu is 6700xt
> 
> Still so much weirdness going on to figure everything out
> 
> Latency is something you have to figure out yourself mostly..there isn't any one size fits all solution. Just check your frametimes (not fps) in warzone and see how it behaves.


Ok cool, I'll give some your recommendations a shot.
Here's my setup:








Having issues running higher than 101 bclk. I just renteres BIOS on its own after I save settings to restart.


----------



## lunatik

CCoR said:


> Ok cool, I'll give some your recommendations a shot.
> Here's my setup:
> 
> Having issues running higher than 101 bclk. I just renteres BIOS on its own after I save settings to restart.


How many nvme's/ssd's are you using?

I unplugged others and only using 1 ssd and nvme for bclk. 

Also what gpu do you have since rtx3000 series wont like bclk i think


----------



## CCoR

lunatik said:


> How many nvme's/ssd's are you using?
> 
> I unplugged others and only using 1 ssd and nvme for bclk.
> 
> Also what gpu do you have since rtx3000 series wont like bclk i think


I'ved tried disabling sata ports and running with just 1nvme and my 6900xt and it still wont post into windows


----------



## BNSoul

And now I just noticed I've been running Global C-states on "Auto" all this time (I thought I had them enabled when I switched to my DDR4-3800 profile)

So what's the most apparent outcome of running Global C-states on Auto instead of enabled with regard to the 5800X3D? Is that actually noticeable at default 100.0MHz BCLK?


----------



## Fight Game

I would guess it's the same thing. On my tomahawk b550 board it don't even give us the option to enable - only auto or disabled


----------



## VnnAmed

Hi, I have Asus crosshair VII Hero, 5800x3D and Liquid Freezer II 420. My temps seem to be insane if I hit it with prime95, are the real temps the one displayed on the 5800x3D section or Asus WMI?


----------



## BNSoul

Fight Game said:


> I would guess it's the same thing. On my tomahawk b550 board it don't even give us the option to enable - only auto or disabled


Thanks for replying mate, turns out that on my Aorus X570 it's either "Auto" or "Enabled", there's no disabling there 😅

When I contacted Gigabyte about it they replied something along the lines that Auto would allow the feature set detected on the installed CPU to manage C-states. However, they never responded any of my mails asking what the "Enabled" setting was supposed to do then.

I know it's all about saving energy and reducing voltages and frequencies, leading to better temps but according to some people it could affect stability and/or responsiveness when rapidly changing between power states. My dad always says that there's no point in forcing that setting to "Enabled" unless you're settings BCLK at 102 or higher.

So here we are with no definite answer and the opening post states in its guidelines to set it to "Enabled", but as I said the reasoning behind it is so confusing with so many different takes on the matter. Benchmarks with either Auto or Enabled yield similar results, voltages and temperatures. Cores go to sleep mode as fast and the system doesn't feel any more or less snappy.

There's a difference in gaming though, when set to "Auto" I can repeatedly observe cores boosting more often to 4550 in a couple of games I use for reference specially in menus and other light load scenarios. This doesn't happen with GCS "Enabled" unless the setting affects monitoring software to the point boosting is harder to detect. Windows usage is not different since cores boost there all the time regardless of the GCS setting, just by opening apps such as the event viewer, mail, notepad or even the windows explorer, performing TRIM on NVMe drives, doing a search. 

My go-to power plan is "balanced" with the drop down menu on Windows 11 set to balanced as well, I might have noticed some improvement going "performance" at some point but I believe it was placebo.


----------



## BNSoul

VnnAmed said:


> Hi, I have Asus crosshair VII Hero, 5800x3D and Liquid Freezer II 420. My temps seem to be insane if I hit it with prime95, are the real temps the one displayed on the 5800x3D section or Asus WMI?
> View attachment 2568597


Are you using some Vcore offset there? Remove it and try some benchmarks, if not keep on reading here...

Look at power deviation report right there. The CPU believes it is running ate one quarter of its power and voltage limits and is trying to boost itself to the point of reaching dangerous levels. I believe the CPU has safety measures in place to avoid this scenario and probably those are preventing you from having an already fried CPU on your hands.

Try a different BIOS after a full CMOS reset, or re-flash the latest build after said full CMOS reset. Perform a fresh / clean OS install. Make sure PBO2 tuner app is not running (sys service not installed in Windows) when installing the AMD chipset drivers. Good luck.

It could be cooler installation issues as well, but that power deviation numbers are much more concerning.


----------



## BNSoul

For those with issues with core boosting, I guess you know this Zen 3 CPU can have 4 different cores boosting past the 4450 MHz multi-threaded workload limit simultaneously and you can check and observe it using Y-Cruncher with a moderate FFT workload stress test placed on whatever 4 cores you prefer or fancy to test. Granted, they're not going to boost to full speed 4550, in fact they boost in my case (100.0MHZ BCLK) anywhere from 4520 to 4522-ish, rather stable and apparent in monitoring software, it does serve really well to check that the CPU / BIOS / AGESA / Cores / PBO2/ Operating system are not bugged and boosting algorithms are all okay.

I just took this screenshot depicting the abovementioned behavior with my 5800X3D running as always at 100.0MHz stock BCLK.


----------



## bmagnien

BNSoul said:


> Thanks for replying mate, turns out that on my Aorus X570 it's either "Auto" or "Enabled", there's no disabling there 😅
> 
> When I contacted Gigabyte about it they replied something along the lines that Auto would allow the feature set detected on the installed CPU to manage C-states. However, they never responded any of my mails asking what the "Enabled" setting was supposed to do then.
> 
> I know it's all about saving energy and reducing voltages and frequencies, leading to better temps but according to some people it could affect stability and/or responsiveness when rapidly changing between power states. My dad always says that there's no point in forcing that setting to "Enabled" unless you're settings BCLK at 102 or higher.
> 
> So here we are with no definite answer and the opening post states in its guidelines to set it to "Enabled", but as I said the reasoning behind it is so confusing with so many different takes on the matter. Benchmarks with either Auto or Enabled yield similar results, voltages and temperatures. Cores go to sleep mode as fast and the system doesn't feel any more or less snappy.
> 
> There's a difference in gaming though, when set to "Auto" I can repeatedly observe cores boosting more often to 4550 in a couple of games I use for reference specially in menus and other light load scenarios. This doesn't happen with GCS "Enabled" unless the setting affects monitoring software to the point boosting is harder to detect. Windows usage is not different since cores boost there all the time regardless of the GCS setting, just by opening apps such as the event viewer, mail, notepad or even the windows explorer, performing TRIM on NVMe drives, doing a search.
> 
> My go-to power plan is "balanced" with the drop down menu on Windows 11 set to balanced as well, I might have noticed some improvement going "performance" at some point but I believe it was placebo.


Where are people accessing this ‘drop down’? Second time in hearing of it. I’m running windows 11 and don’t have any drop down in my power settings. Could someone screenshot or explain how to navigate to it? Thanks!


----------



## BNSoul

bmagnien said:


> Where are people accessing this ‘drop down’? Second time in hearing of it. I’m running windows 11 and don’t have any drop down in my power settings. Could someone screenshot or explain how to navigate to it? Thanks!


In the search box (or pressing the Windows key) input "power and" that should suffice to pop up the "Power, sleep and battery settings"

Then click on "Power mode" and select your favorite option from the drop down menu on the right, screenshot below shows this setting on W11:


----------



## bmagnien

BNSoul said:


> View attachment 2568621
> 
> 
> 
> In the search box (or pressing the Windows key) input "power and" that should suffice to pop up the "Power, sleep and battery settings"
> 
> Then click on "Power mode" and select your favorite option from the drop down menu on the right, screenshot below shows this setting on W11:


Thank you! It won’t show up if you have anything other than balanced power plan selected in the old Power options plan menu. I selected balanced there and then high performance in the drop down. Who knows if it’ll make an difference. It I can’t get more than 4350, sometimes 4400 all core in c23. This is on a good custom loop, -30 all core and 77c temps max


----------



## BNSoul

bmagnien said:


> Thank you! It won’t show up if you have anything other than balanced power plan selected in the old Power options plan menu. I selected balanced there and then high performance in the drop down. Who knows if it’ll make an difference. It I can’t get more than 4350, sometimes 4400 all core in c23. This is on a good custom loop, -30 all core and 77c temps max


With that temp your CPU shouldn't be throttling, it must be something else, have you tried the task I posted above where 4 cores boost past 4450 at the same time? Can you run it along HWInfo64 running on the side and take a screenshot of the cores running?


----------



## bmagnien

BNSoul said:


> With that temp your CPU shouldn't be throttling, it must be something else, have you tried the task I posted above where 4 cores boost past 4450 at the same time? Can you run it along HWInfo64 running on the side and take a screenshot of the cores running?











not sure if I did this right. I selected cores 0-3 but it looks like only 0 and 1 are boosting?


----------



## bmagnien

I got cores 4-7 boosting to 4525 (screenshot shows 4514 but just didnt capture the right moment









and here's cores 0-3 but they would only go to 4470


----------



## BNSoul

bmagnien said:


> ...


Thanks for the screenshots, voltages and temps look okay, are you running this full stock? have you tried PBO2 Tuner with generic values such as 120 80 120 and a curve of -15 for best cores and -25 for the remaining six? What motherboard, BIOS and AGESA is your X3D running on?
In your last screenshot it shows all cores did boost but #2 and #3 are having a hard time, can you run the app "BoostTesterMannix.exe" by overclocker @Mannix ? Do it with HWInfo on the side and we'll see if the light load triggers a full boost in all available cores.


----------



## bmagnien

In other news, I think I just got the highest score I've gotten using my high efficiency 'optimized' settings:


----------



## bmagnien

BNSoul said:


> ...


I'm running -30 all core (which passed all per-core stability tests), and those ycruncher screenshots were at stock ppt, edc, tdc, but I normally run the efficient setting i came up with posted above that many people are running with on this thread. 1.2.0.7 on asus x570i. BoostTesterManix screenshot below, pretty weak IMO, nothing over 4540


----------



## BNSoul

bmagnien said:


> I'm running -30 all core (which passed all per-core stability tests), and those ycruncher screenshots were at stock ppt, edc, tdc, but I normally run the efficient setting i came up with posted above that many people are running with on this thread. 1.2.0.7 on asus x570i. BoostTesterManix screenshot below, pretty weak IMO, nothing over 4540


not bad, 4540 is the sign of a good CPU sample if you get all cores to that point, I get anywhere from 4542 to 4544, sometimes 4545 on my humble Aorus Elite X570 board. All cores above 4542 though, but I got a really good sample, not gonna say Platinum because nobody really knows but really good considering its consistent great results on an average board and RAM kit.

Screenshots:
So according to HWInfo author, in the "Ryzen Snapshot" monitoring mode all clocks on the top half of the HWInfo panel are indeed effective, real and actual clock speeds attained by the cores during live monitoring, always affected negatively by the "viewer" or "spectator effect" but pretty accurate.
For those who don't know this is "Ryzen snapshot mode"











And here my results in a quick, dirty run using my day to day PBO2 settings, not gonna bother with -30 all core sin I just use that for Cinebench

all cores attaining actual, effective speeds higher than 4542, best core gets 4544 real close to full effectiveness / efficiency, I've seen it get 4545.5 twice.




















and for reference so you can compare this was my last R23 run:










all results at 100.0MHz stock BCLK + PBO2 Tuner limits (of course)

so you still got some work to do (fun with y-cruncher and core cycler) optimizing that curve!! cheers mate.

edit: bonus Y-cruncher boosting 4 cores simultaneously, measured right with HWiNFO "Ryzen snapshot mode" (showing actual registered core speeds)


----------



## modee79s

Hi guys,
My Cinebench R23 score is 13,100-200; how can I improve it to match the average?
I have the latest Bios version from Asus and only applied the DOCP profile; otherwise, everything else is at default.
This is my first AMD PC and I am not sure what Bios tweaks will be applied. Could you guide me in applying the standard Bios settings (if any)?
*I am a beginner and not confident in using the PBO2 Tuner so I would instead stick with the basic settings.

I appreciate any help you can provide.

**My system (Win 10):
5800X3D
Case: Lian-li O11
MB: ROG Strix B550-F Gaming
Cooling: 360mm AIO + 6 case fans
RAM: 32GB DDR4 3600 CL17


----------



## BNSoul

modee79s said:


> Hi guys,
> My Cinebench R23 score is 13,100-200; how can I improve it to match the average?


First of all read the opening post where the optimized BIOS settings are stated. Same for the PBO2 Tuner app: instructions, purposes and guidelines, tips and tricks as well as download links (provided by the author himself) have also been extensively discussed throughout this thread.

Your score is at the rock bottom compared to what this CPU can actually produce, it's no problem but it means you would need to catch up with the very basics. Having someone sprouting over and over the same long explanatory posts every time a below average Cinebench result gets posted would be considered spam.

All the info, examples and troubleshooting advices are in this thread. Get the latest AGESA 1.2.0.7 compatible BIOS for your motherboard, AMD chipset drivers, PBO2 Tuner (generic settings to start with will be 120 /85 /120 with a curve of -15 for the best cores and -25 for all the rest, then you can fine tune later), HWInfo64, Mannix' boost tester, Core Cycler and Y-Cruncher. Then start reading and tweaking to your heart's content. Make sure the CPU is not overheating/throttling during Cinebench runs (certainly it sure looks like your CPU does), if there's a problem with the cooling solution get it fixed before anything else.

If you get stuck with anything of the above you can always ask but try to provide some context the likes of a HWInfo64 screenshot or similar. Also, do mind that this is a forum for people who have their setup fine tuned to the point that they are willing to go further and overclock the CPU to extract every last drop of performance. It also serves to get your CPU fully maximized at stock settings, I guess for the time being you'd be interested in the latter. Good luck 👍


----------



## lestatdk

modee79s said:


> Hi guys,
> My Cinebench R23 score is 13,100-200; how can I improve it to match the average?
> I have the latest Bios version from Asus and only applied the DOCP profile; otherwise, everything else is at default.
> This is my first AMD PC and I am not sure what Bios tweaks will be applied. Could you guide me in applying the standard Bios settings (if any)?
> *I am a beginner and not confident in using the PBO2 Tuner so I would instead stick with the basic settings.
> 
> I appreciate any help you can provide.
> 
> **My system (Win 10):
> 5800X3D
> Case: Lian-li O11
> MB: ROG Strix B550-F Gaming
> Cooling: 360mm AIO + 6 case fans
> RAM: 32GB DDR4 3600 CL17


That's a very low score. Have you monitored the temperatures ? To make sure it's not throttling ?


----------



## AXi0M

BNSoul said:


> not bad, 4540 is the sign of a good CPU sample if you get all cores to that point, I get anywhere from 4542 to 4544, sometimes 4545 on my humble Aorus Elite X570 board. All cores above 4542 though, but I got a really good sample, not gonna say Platinum because nobody really knows but really good considering its consistent great results on an average board and RAM kit.
> 
> Screenshots:
> So according to HWInfo author, in the "Ryzen Snapshot" monitoring mode all clocks on the top half of the HWInfo panel are indeed effective, real and actual clock speeds attained by the cores during live monitoring, always affected negatively by the "viewer" or "spectator effect" but pretty accurate.
> For those who don't know this is "Ryzen snapshot mode"
> 
> View attachment 2568631
> 
> 
> 
> And here my results in a quick, dirty run using my day to day PBO2 settings, not gonna bother with -30 all core sin I just use that for Cinebench
> 
> all cores attaining actual, effective speeds higher than 4542, best core gets 4544 real close to full effectiveness / efficiency, I've seen it get 4545.5 twice.
> 
> View attachment 2568632
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2568633
> 
> 
> and for reference so you can compare this was my last R23 run:
> 
> View attachment 2568634
> 
> 
> all results at 100.0MHz stock BCLK + PBO2 Tuner limits (of course)
> 
> so you still got some work to do (fun with y-cruncher and core cycler) optimizing that curve!! cheers mate.
> 
> edit: bonus Y-cruncher boosting 4 cores simultaneously, measured right with HWiNFO "Ryzen snapshot mode" (showing actual registered core speeds)
> 
> View attachment 2568636
> 
> 
> View attachment 2568637


i see you have a bios with agesia 1.2.0.7. With my ASUS x570-PRIME board running 1.2.0.7 my voltages underload go UP even with a -30 all core curve (1.212v-1.231v) . running the previous bios with 1.2.0.6b i get similar voltages as you in cinebench ~1.16v with an all core offset -30. i guess ASUS messed up the 1.2.0.7 bios?


----------



## BNSoul

AXi0M said:


> i see you have a bios with agesia 1.2.0.7. With my ASUS x570-PRIME board running 1.2.0.7 my voltages underload go UP even with a -30 all core curve (1.212v-1.231v) . running the previous bios with 1.2.0.6b i get similar voltages as you in cinebench ~1.16v with an all core offset -30. i guess ASUS messed up the 1.2.0.7 bios?


Hi there mate, yeah the 1.2.0.7 update on my Aorus X570 Elite did improve voltages (meaning, they are now lower across the board), temperatures ¨(now I won't go over 71-72º under heavy stress testing in the middle of the hot Spanish summer weather, with CPU usually running games at mid 40's and below, idling at 26-28º). Performance also increased accordingly among other things like the fTPM issues which were also addressed. In particular, single core boosts are now like really good, it's a basic board but with good VRMs. Power deviation was also further calibrated and under heavy load is in the 101-101.6% range which is pretty good too. This is not all the work of Gigabyte since by default AGESA 1.2.0.7 microcode does indeed address all of the above.

What I mean with all that is the fact that you should be seeing improvements after updating to 1.2.0.7 instead of performance regressions, in this case I wouldn't hesitate to complain directly to your local ASUS rep. Have you checked with different owners of the same board? are the issues replicable? Because if it's just you or a few users you could try a full CMOS reset and re-flashing the latest BIOS following by a clean/fresh OS install, always make sure to not have PBO2 Tuner running / PBO2 Tuner system service installed before removing or installing AMD chipset drivers. What's your CB23 score and your boost speeds with Mannix' ? Try HWiNFO64 Ryzen snapshot mode for improved readings.


----------



## AXi0M

BNSoul said:


> Hi there mate, yeah the 1.2.0.7 update on my Aorus X570 Elite did improve voltages (meaning, they are now lower across the board), temperatures ¨(now I won't go over 71-72º under heavy stress testing in the middle of the hot Spanish summer weather, with CPU usually running games at mid 40's and below, idling at 26-28º). Performance also increased accordingly among other things like the fTPM issues which were also addressed. In particular, single core boosts are now like really good, it's a basic board but with good VRMs. Power deviation was also further calibrated and under heavy load is in the 101-101.6% range which is pretty good too. This is not all the work of Gigabyte since by default AGESA 1.2.0.7 microcode does indeed address all of the above.
> 
> What I mean with all that is the fact that you should be seeing improvements after updating to 1.2.0.7 instead of performance regressions, in this case I wouldn't hesitate to complain directly to your local ASUS rep. Have you checked with different owners of the same board? are the issues replicable? Because if it's just you or a few users you could try a full CMOS reset and re-flashing the latest BIOS following by a clean/fresh OS install, always make sure to not have PBO2 Tuner running / PBO2 Tuner system service installed before removing or installing AMD chipset drivers. What's your CB23 score and your boost speeds with Mannix' ? Try HWiNFO64 Ryzen snapshot mode for improved readings.


Im pretty sure its the bios, i flashed back and fourth between 1.2.0.6b and 1.2.0.7 a few times now and the voltages always seem to be 0.05v higher on 1.2.0.7


----------



## Cuboy

BNSoul said:


> How are you not getting 4450 all-core? Also, CPU-Z or Cinebench are not a metric for anything meaningful really, clock frequency is just another variable to be factored in, be it in single or multi core results. The X3D can be sitting at the bottom of the benchmarks and still win by a considerable margin in Far Cry, Assetto C, Factorio, UE4 games, Tarkov, Path of Exile, World of Warcraft, CoD Warzone, Watchdog Legions, Division 2, Star Citizen, BF, Riftbreaker, Valorant, GTA and many, many others that I haven't tested personally but I've seen in reputable benchmarks.
> 
> Most of the above titles cannot be matched in performance by other Zen 3 CPUs just by upping frequencies, that's why I still got my reservations with regard to the 7600-7700 vs 5800X3D debate, of course there's also the IPC and L2 increase along with DDR5 but I'm sure in some titles it won't be enough.
> 
> In this sense, unless the 7800X3D brings some killer feature (such as no more hotspots in the CPU due to unoptimized interposer) I don't think a 5800X3D user should upgrade to it. A new GPU should be much cheaper and equally as effective.


That is what convinced me when i got the 5800x3d.

No motherboard, ram upgrade.
No waiting.
Less pricy.
And more performance out of the game i want to play.

There is always going to be something better, a 7800x3d will be better than a 5800x3d of course, but it also will be more pricy and i'll need to upgrade everything. I prefer to extend the life of my pc, and maybe upgrade when zen 5 is out if the performance jump is significant.

For now, i just have to worry about getting a better gpu.


----------



## modee79s

BNSoul said:


> First of all, read the opening post where the optimized BIOS settings are stated. Same for the PBO2 Tuner app: instructions, purposes and guidelines, tips and tricks, as well as download links (provided by the author himself) have also been extensively discussed throughout this thread.


Hey mate, thank you for the advice.
I was hesitant to use PBO2 (due to lack of personal skill) and thought I only needed some Bios tweaks, but I did it and applied a basic curve, and now my score is ∼14,300. I am pretty happy with that.
Sorry for not sharing screenshots. Before PBO2, the temps always looked okay, mostly 82-86, never 89 or above. The only time I hit 90-91 was when I did a 10 minutes stress test with Prime95, but that's alright, I guess.

Once again, thank you!


----------



## lunatik

AXi0M said:


> i see you have a bios with agesia 1.2.0.7. With my ASUS x570-PRIME board running 1.2.0.7 my voltages underload go UP even with a -30 all core curve (1.212v-1.231v) . running the previous bios with 1.2.0.6b i get similar voltages as you in cinebench ~1.16v with an all core offset -30. i guess ASUS messed up the 1.2.0.7 bios?


I think it's something on your side since that doesn't happen to me.. or maybe it's with x570 mobo's?

Switched back to 1.2.0.7- all auto, except for ram and related voltages.

Altough i do cmos reset before installing other versions..

Edit: Pic is with PBO2,-30 with 120/80/120. (I wouldn't use it on gaming tho)


----------



## BNSoul

lunatik said:


> Edit: Pic is with PBO2,-30 with 120/80/120. (I wouldn't use it on gaming tho)


Why wouldn't you use that while gaming? (And what settings do you use instead?)


----------



## robolee

PJVol said:


> Anyone using this tool can try this "moonrise" build with some minor changes in CLI:
> (just curious about the CPU behavior with the FIT scalar set to 0)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Debug-cli-beta.7z
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> only full set of CO count arguments is mandatory if provided
> limits are not applied if zero or omitted.
> @KedarWolf - zero scalar value applied if provided (not the default 1 value)
> exccessive arguments are ignored
> Example: (8-core CPU)


What the arguments if i want to set a temp limit for auto launch? For now it's -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 for the CO but i want to set a temp limit of 65 as my country ambient temp is 32ish++ 24/7 all year long


----------



## lunatik

BNSoul said:


> Why wouldn't you use that while gaming? (And what settings do you use instead?)


1. I don't understand how this extra cache behaves..Wasn't that the whole reason this chip was locked (oc/uv)?

2. I have no idea how to test cache performance under different voltages/gaming.

3. Since i only play competitive games, the most important thing is minimum fps and having the lowest possible/steady frametimes.

4. I think sotr benchmark atleast uses something along the lines of ram/cache and with those pbo2 settings i will lose atleast 10-15% min/max fps..


----------



## BNSoul

I would be thankful for anyone who can run HWiNFO64 on "Zen CPU Snapshot mode" (a toggle in main settings) while Mannix' boost tester is running on the side and can share a screenshot of clock speeds at default 100.0MHz, I'm trying to make sense of the "clock speed" and "effective clock" readings since according to the author of HWINFO64 all frequencies listed under clock speed are actual readings (effective speeds that were captured directly from the CPU and not averaged from other variables), so shouldn't the effective clock speeds readings be unnecessary in this case?


----------



## BNSoul

lunatik said:


> 4. I think sotr benchmark atleast uses something along the lines of ram/cache and with those pbo2 settings i will lose atleast 10-15% min/max fps..


Interesting, I tested shadow of the tomb raider and with 122-82-124 was getting the same results as stock settings (142-95-140), I made sure I wasn't GPU bound.


----------



## jonRock1992

lunatik said:


> 1. I don't understand how this extra cache behaves..Wasn't that the whole reason this chip was locked (oc/uv)?
> 
> 2. I have no idea how to test cache performance under different voltages/gaming.
> 
> 3. Since i only play competitive games, the most important thing is minimum fps and having the lowest possible/steady frametimes.
> 
> 4. I think sotr benchmark atleast uses something along the lines of ram/cache and with those pbo2 settings i will lose atleast 10-15% min/max fps..


You're not 100% stable if you are losing performance.


----------



## lunatik

Oops, i didn't explain myself quite right. What i meant with that sotr benchmark and "wouldn't use this for gaming" - i would use bclk oc over stock settings 

Edit: I know it's not exactly apples to apples comparison, just what i use.

stock -30, 120/80/120








Since i just switched bios versions recently, i lost all my profiles and i can't really tell exactly what settings i was using for Warzone but sotr looked smth like this








This last pic also wasn't the latest "settings".. i ended up with over 42000 frames rendered, over 240 min fps with 273 avg fps.

all sotr pics were taken with fixed gpu oc to 2700-2800mhz (aside for what bclk does). For Warzone i use 2831-2931mhz.. (6700xt sapphire nitro)

These were done earlier with some cheap 30 euro cooler - when i first realized that i even could bclk oc (and had 0 knowledge about bclk):














Currently using arctic freezer 420 aio but missing 3 fans for push-pull.


----------



## AXi0M

lunatik said:


> I think it's something on your side since that doesn't happen to me.. or maybe it's with x570 mobo's?
> 
> Switched back to 1.2.0.7- all auto, except for ram and related voltages.
> 
> Altough i do cmos reset before installing other versions..
> 
> Edit: Pic is with PBO2,-30 with 120/80/120. (I wouldn't use it on gaming tho)
> 
> View attachment 2568743


-30 all core idle voltage ~1.15v and running cinebench voltage is ~1.225v and over 120W. when i go back to 1.2.0.6b its ~1.15v running cinebench and ~105W


----------



## robolee

Hello, anyone know how to auto launch pbo2 tuner with temp limit set in place?


----------



## BNSoul

Interesting and easy procedure to grasp a good overall perspective of the quality of the CPU cores at 100.0MHz default BCLK (meaning no overclock in place).

First of all, launch HWiNFO64 but in "Snapshot mode (for ZEN CPUs)", it's a setting you need to enable in the settings menu, then click on "main settings" and then on "snapshot mode", restart HWiNFO64. In this mode the clock speeds that get monitored and logged are actual, effective and true core speeds, they won't show generically as "4550" while boosting, but typically anywhere between 4541-ish and 4547-ish, because further than that would be 100% perfect efficiency and as engineers say electricity will leak in a typical consumer CPU one way or another and with the added impact of temperature it cannot translate fully 1:1 into performance. Make sure to disable monitoring of anything not useful and reduce the polling interval from 2000ms to 1000ms or even 900ms to improve monitoring accuracy. In this mode you can disable the monitoring of "effective clocks" according to the HWiNFO author.

So now open PBO2 Tuner and set the typical 114 -75 -115 power limiting values used for testing (like in Cinebench) and a voltage curve of -30 all-core to limit the voltage that cores can sip to 1.118v while boosting, also these limits ensure that cores are power constrained and really put the test here. Finally, start @Mannix ' Boost Tester and let it cycle at least 3-4 times so readings are accurate.

In my case I get this:










so cores boost from 4543.2 to 4546.8 effective clocks, which is pretty decent as this monitoring mode shows actual, true core speed logged by the CPU in snapshots that HWiNFO uses to display results. 

So with this you can assess the quality of the cores fairly quickly:










In a green rectangle I've marked the allegedly "best core" of my system (C0), but turns out it wasn't the fastest but the one that needed the lowest voltage (1.093v) in order to boost at such constrained power limitations, which I guess is okay for AMD to label it "best core".

In a blue I rectangle I've marked the allegedly "second best core" (C2) of the system, and this time around it was among the 3 fastest while sipping just a tiny bit more voltage than C0, which I understand is fair to relegate to 2nd best but in my opinion it could very well be labelled top core.

Finally, In a red rectangle I marked C7, the core that sipped all the voltage available after the limitation imposed by the 114 - 75 -115 and -30 all-core PBO2 settings, this is, it took the full 1.118v that the -30 offset would allow at such power limits. But interestingly, it produced the fastest boost at 4,546.8 MHz and really close to full efficiency. So for that it cannot be signaled as the worst core. For that, I think C6 is producing decent speed but lower than C1 which is in a similar voltage consumption range.

So there's that, anyone wants to try and share their results? I've always used this method to assess and compare my different CPUs in terms of their cores and boosting efficiency. Also, when in the household there're two or more of the same CPU model then the one with the higher quality silicon substrate does really show here.


----------



## Bamidrol

@BNSoul Nice method to check core health. I was just wondering if anyone found a fix to the 4450Mhz Boost limit. I am on 1207 with CMOS clear and only RAM tweaks enabled. My cores refuse to boost higher than 4450Mhz even with the method described above. Its driving me insane.


----------



## BNSoul

Bamidrol said:


> @BNSoul Nice method to check core health. I was just wondering if anyone found a fix to the 4450Mhz Boost limit. I am on 1207 with CMOS clear and only RAM tweaks enabled. My cores refuse to boost higher than 4450Mhz even with the method described above. Its driving me insane.


Other users with the same issue had it fixed after a full CMOS reset and latest BIOS re-flash (I'm taking for granted here that you already tried a different BIOS to no avail), followed by a full and clean (no backups) installation of the operating system. Remember to leave PBO2 Tuner aside until you properly install the AMD chipset drivers. If the PBO2 Tuner system service is in place whist configuring the drivers it can cause misconfiguration, instability and/or installation failure.


----------



## elbubi

Is it expected behaviour to have cores fed with 1.200 V even with -30 curve set in PBO when running CB23? (all other values (PPT, EDC, TDC) untouched.


----------



## BNSoul

elbubi said:


> Is it expected behaviour to have cores fed with 1.200 V even with -30 curve set in PBO when running CB23? (all other values (PPT, EDC, TDC) untouched.
> 
> View attachment 2568856


Hola qué tal, yeah it's normal depending on the app you're using to check the boost behavior, with stock power limits the cores will take as much voltage as possible or needed within the power envelope hard coded in the firmware. Now, in the test I posted above it's known that the max available voltage a core may sip would be 1.118v and no more than that.

I strongly suggest you to use HWiNFO64 in "snapshot mode" to get an accurate picture of the boosting performance, stability and core health. As you have it now (default) it always show 4550 generically with no meaningful insights as to the actual speed the cores are attaining.


----------



## elbubi

Ok, good to know that is normal (remember that my single core task gets splited in 2c/4t)
I'm 99% positive I'm using cpu snapshot mode, will check when I get home this evening.


----------



## BNSoul

elbubi said:


> Ok, good to know that is normal (remember that my single core task gets splited in 2c/4t)
> I'm 99% positive I'm using cpu snapshot mode, will check when I get home this evening.


 go to settings -> main settings -> snapshot mode, then run Mannix' and check core speeds and voltage, try using 114-75-115 with -30 all core and post a screenshot, you can disable average core speed monitoring when using snapshot mode since it's redundant and misleading. Buen día.


----------



## foook92

wow this thing is HOT.
I have an h150i pro with 6x p120 in PP and TG Kryonaut, and it gets into the 90*°* while running cinebench, that's waaaaay over my comfort zone lol. Just setting -10 with on all cores with pbo2 Optimizer, actually did nothing with temps, but raised my score till 14071pts on Cinebench R23.

Any hint? should I just do more tests with Curve Optimizer? I really don't want spend any cent on a new cooler, if this thing is so hot, I'll probably return it.

P.S. And I'm all stock now, fclk ram etc., all stock (1800mhz).


----------



## lestatdk

Mine tops at 71 or so in CB23. I have an X73 Kraken 360mm AIO. I'd say you might have a cooling problem maybe bad airflow ? I run at -30 on all cores, without PBO it sits around 82 or so


----------



## foook92

lestatdk said:


> Mine tops at 71 or so in CB23. I have an X73 Kraken 360mm AIO. I'd say you might have a cooling problem maybe bad airflow ? I run at -30 on all cores, without PBO it sits around 82 or so


Never had any airflow issue, I have an o11 dynamic with 12 fans in it...6x that push fresh air from bottom and side and 6x on PP that pull air outside from the top.


----------



## BNSoul

foook92 said:


> wow this thing is HOT.
> I have an h150i pro with 6x p120 in PP and TG Kryonaut, and it gets into the 90*°* while running cinebench,fclk ram etc., all stock (1800mhz).


I'm running on some custom DIY air solution based on a dark rock pro 4 and never get above 72ºC in the Spanish summer weather during Cinebench runs, my best score posted with screenshots elsewhere in this thread is 15341 with no overclocking whatsoever, just the usual 114-75-115 (this should improve your temps) power limits and -30 all-core voltage curve.

Give it a try.


----------



## pfinch

is it recommend for gaming to use -30 all core (if it's stable) or best 2 cores eg. -15 ?


----------



## foook92

So I repasted and tried a little bit less mounting power, just tight the 2 screws a lil bit less. Plus, with the old Corsair AM4 mounting system, I moved my AIO Waterblock a little bit lower, so it should cool better this hell hot chiplet XD.
With -25 on all cores on Curve Optimizer, I'm finally just under 85C, and score raised up to 14414 (I have a lot of ****s in background, so it could be more). Seems it can mantain now 4300mhz all core during Cinebench.
BUT, it won't boost at all till 4550 mhz on single core, 4450 is the maximum I saw. Any hint?

P.S. @BNSoul I'll try your custom power limits soon, thank you!

P.P.S. Forgive me for my horrible english lol


----------



## BNSoul

pfinch said:


> is it recommend for gaming to use -30 all core (if it's stable) or best 2 cores eg. -15 ?


If the game uses two or more cores ( 99.99%) then you're going to be limited at 4450 MHz and running at the voltage of the minimum value set in the curve (this is, if you have a curve of -30 -5 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 then your games and any other multi-threaded workload will run at -5 all-core, with the rest of values only used if the app is single core / single threaded and running on said cores).

So with the above-mentioned in mind, a -30 all-core curve will be preferable if only to keep temps and consumption down. Most users think that -30 all core may hurt performance but if you validate it through the usual core cycler tests and effective clocks are observed to be the same as stock then you're gonna get 100% performance at lower voltage. The fun part begins when you realize that some CPU samples are not stable at -30 all-core so they have to find a different curve with the affected core/s hurting performance across the board.

Lower values for the best cores are highly suggested since these tend to be more finicky in single core workloads when boosting, but in gaming with a 4450MHz lock in place (stock) it's not going to change things much. If you got your -30 all-core validated (in changing conditions like a mix of low and high current workloads) then you're good to go be it in gaming or anything else. In this sense, I posted a single core test 4-5 posts above this one with the CPU running at 114 75 115 -30 all core and got effective boost speeds comparable and better than those running stock settings or conservative voltage curves.Not to mention Cinebench runs showing effective clocks at exactly 4450 despite the -30 curve and power limits. This is a great CPU and you just need a bit of luck to get a decent sample, in my experience those with a 2207PGS fab date (7th week of the year) are really really good in terms of temps, boosting and IoD.


----------



## BNSoul

foook92 said:


> Any hint?


Look some posts above this, there's a response to a different user with the same problem. Remember to use single core workloads like the one from @Mannix to test single core boosting, preferably with 114-75-115 limits in place and a -30 all core curve in order to check for power delivery issues.

PS: Your English is completely fine, in contrast to mine I thought you were a Cambridge scholar living in Oxford.


----------



## foook92

BNSoul said:


> Look some posts above this, there's a response to a different user with the same problem. Remember to use single core workloads like the one from @Mannix to test single core boosting, preferably with 114-75-115 limits in place and a -30 all core curve in order to check for power delivery issues.
> 
> PS: Your English is completely fine, in contrast to mine I thought you were a Cambridge scholar living in Oxford.


With those power limits, my scores were lower. Anyway, with -25 on all cores, while gaming at Squad, it stay up to the 80/82 all the time, with 85/86 peaks.
That's really way too much 😔, never had such kind of problems with any cpu in my entire life, this is a real hoven.
I'm actually already thinking to get the 5950x instead, and enjoy the more cores.


----------



## BNSoul

foook92 said:


> With those power limits, my scores were lower. Anyway, with -25 on all cores, while gaming at Squad, it stay up to the 80/82 all the time, with 85/86 peaks.
> That's really way too much 😔, never had such kind of problems with any cpu in my entire life, this is a real hoven.
> I'm actually already thinking to get the 5950x instead, and enjoy the more cores.


It's not a CPU problem as most people here have evidenced, maybe you got a buggy BIOS, the operating system isn't correctly installed (don't dare to just drop the CPU in the socket without installing the OS afresh) or your cooling solution is not working as intended.

Look, I get this with zero overclocking:









With this:









So the CPU doesn't need anything that special as you're implying. I hope you enjoy your new 5950X though, this is one of the first Spiderman remastered CPU benchmarks with an unoptimized 5800X3D:










The 5800X3D is 29% faster than a 5950X and 32% faster than a 5800X with much improved frame pacing, meaning 8 additional cores are not helping much.

And productivity apps running on Linux:









So yeah if you came here to troll with the 90+ temperatures despite the fancy water-cooling complains and immediately after that you casually mention a 5950X would be better then I'm showing you the door and wishing you good luck, we thought we were done with the 5800X troll a few days ago but looks like they must be breeding.


----------



## pfinch

BNSoul said:


> If the game uses two or more cores ( 99.99%) then you're going to be limited at 4450 MHz and running at the voltage of the minimum value set in the curve (this is, if you have a curve of -30 -5 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 then your games and any other multi-threaded workload will run at -5 all-core, with the rest of values only used if the app is single core / single threaded and running on said cores).
> 
> So with the above-mentioned in mind, a -30 all-core curve will be preferable if only to keep temps and consumption down. Most users think that -30 all core may hurt performance but if you validate it through the usual core cycler tests and effective clocks are observed to be the same as stock then you're gonna get 100% performance at lower voltage. The fun part begins when you realize that some CPU samples are not stable at -30 all-core so they have to find a different curve with the affected core/s hurting performance across the board.
> 
> Lower values for the best cores are highly suggested since these tend to be more finicky in single core workloads when boosting, but in gaming with a 4450MHz lock in place (stock) it's not going to change things much. If you got your -30 all-core validated (in changing conditions like a mix of low and high current workloads) then you're good to go be it in gaming or anything else. In this sense, I posted a single core test 4-5 posts above this one with the CPU running at 114 75 115 -30 all core and got effective boost speeds comparable and better than those running stock settings or conservative voltage curves.Not to mention Cinebench runs showing effective clocks at exactly 4450 despite the -30 curve and power limits. This is a great CPU and you just need a bit of luck to get a decent sample, in my experience those with a 2207PGS fab date (7th week of the year) are really really good in terms of temps, boosting and IoD.


Thanks! Do you have CCPC (on+preferred) recommendations for win11?


----------



## BNSoul

pfinch said:


> Thanks! Do you have CCPC (on+preferred) recommendations for win11?


CPPC -Enabled
CPPC preferred cores -Disabled 
GLOBAL C-STATES -Enabled/Auto (don't disable)

W11 Performance plan: balanced. 
W11 Power settings: balanced.


----------



## pfinch

Thanks! And l1 and l2 prefetcher?


----------



## BNSoul

pfinch said:


> Thanks! And l1 and l2 prefetcher?


Both HW prefetchers enabled in BIOS


----------



## foook92

BNSoul said:


> It's not a CPU problem as most people here have evidenced, maybe you got a buggy BIOS, the operating system isn't correctly installed (don't dare to just drop the CPU in the socket without installing the OS afresh) or your cooling solution is not working as intended.
> 
> Look, I get this with zero overclocking:
> View attachment 2568877
> 
> 
> With this:
> View attachment 2568878
> 
> 
> So the CPU doesn't need anything that special as you're implying. I hope you enjoy your new 5950X though, this is one of the first Spiderman remastered CPU benchmarks with an unoptimized 5800X3D:
> 
> View attachment 2568879
> 
> 
> The 5800X3D is 29% faster than a 5950X and 32% faster than a 5800X with much improved frame pacing, meaning 8 additional cores are not helping much.
> 
> And productivity apps running on Linux:
> View attachment 2568881
> 
> 
> So yeah if you came here to troll with the 90+ temperatures despite the fancy water-cooling complains and immediately after that you casually mention a 5950X would be better then I'm showing you the door and wishing you good luck, we thought we were done with the 5800X troll a few days ago but looks like they must be breeding.


Dude I'm trolling nobody. I'm just very disappointed by such thermals.
And yes I know that 5950x can't be not even close for gaming😅.
Bios is the latest on my C6H, Agesa 1.2.0.7., reflashed with Bios Flashback right after I installed the 5800x3d.
I'll try do a fresh windows install during next week, for now I'm unable to do it cause I have to leave for some days.
But is no news that 5800x3d (and also 5800x) are hot cpus cause of the chiplet design.
The h150i pro still work as intended, flow seems ok and pump works with no issue. Maybe is not the newest aio, but it still a 360mm with 6 PP fans. Maybe in September I'll have the possibility to upgrade it with something newer, but still uncertain.


----------



## pfinch

BNSoul said:


> Both HW prefetchers enabled in BIOS


Hm...disabled gives me more performance at least cb23


----------



## elbubi

BNSoul said:


> go to settings -> main settings -> snapshot mode, then run Mannix' and check core speeds and voltage, try using 114-75-115 with -30 all core and post a screenshot, you can disable average core speed monitoring when using snapshot mode since it's redundant and misleading. Buen día.


----------



## BNSoul

foook92 said:


> Dude I'm trolling nobody. I'm just very disappointed by such thermals.
> And yes I know that 5950x can't be not even close for gaming😅.
> Bios is the latest on my C6H, Agesa 1.2.0.7., reflashed with Bios Flashback right after I installed the 5800x3d.
> I'll try do a fresh windows install during next week, for now I'm unable to do it cause I have to leave for some days.
> But is no news that 5800x3d (and also 5800x) are hot cpus cause of the chiplet design.
> The h150i pro still work as intended, flow seems ok and pump works with no issue. Maybe is not the newest aio, but it still a 360mm with 6 PP fans. Maybe in September I'll have the possibility to upgrade it with something newer, but still uncertain.


You mean you're disappointed with your thermals, 'cause there's plenty of ppl here with no issues at all, they have so much headroom they're even overclocking the CPU. Also if you never cared to do a full CMOS reset + clean OS install after dropping the CPU into the socket I don't even know what were you expecting, miracles like that are rare. Config your BIOS properly, clean W11 install, latest chipset drivers before using PBO2 Tuner and so on. Good luck. I mean, I'm getting 20ºC less with a custom Dark Rock Pro 4 solution, make those pumps work. 

I called you troll 'cause you tried the CPU (if you have one) for 5 minutes with the least amount of effort possible and complained about 90°C temps and getting a 5950X because of more cores... dude... if you're not trolling then you have issues with regard to impulse purchases and buying.


----------



## BNSoul

pfinch said:


> Hm...disabled gives me more performance at least cb23


CB23 has so much variance between runs it's hard to tell, also it depends on BIOS implementation, in my case prefetchers help consistently with both single and multi core workloads, give it a try and if it doesn't work for you then you can always disable them.


----------



## foook92

BNSoul said:


> You mean you're disappointed with your thermals, 'cause there's plenty of ppl here with no issues at all, they have so much headroom they're even overclocking the CPU. Also if you never cared to do a full CMOS reset + clean OS install after dropping the CPU into the socket I don't even know what were you expecting, miracles like that are rare. Config your BIOS properly, clean W11 install, latest chipset drivers before using PBO2 Tuner and so on. Good luck. I mean, I'm getting 20ºC less with a custom Dark Rock Pro 4 solution, make those pumps work.
> 
> I called you troll 'cause you tried the CPU (if you have one) for 5 minutes with the least amount of effort possible and complained about 90°C temps and getting a 5950X because of more cores... dude... if you're not trolling then you have issues with regard to impulse purchases and buying.


Got the CPU, just I'm not at home now for prove it😅.
Can you please tell me your in bios temp and core voltage? Not what you setted, just the monitoring. Because even in bios I was getting 62/64c, and voltage was 1.242/1.264v. Maybe is latest c6h bios providing higher voltage that cpu actually need, just I'm trying to figure out what can be. Also your svi2 at stock could help me.
Thanks


----------



## foook92

So.
Fresh install of W11, + Bios Flashback of latest bios available for my Mobo (C6H), latest chipset drivers from AMD website, Balanced Power Plan.

Without PBO Optimizer, during and after Cinebench run.

















With PBO Optimizer set to all cores on -30.


















3 are the possible causes of such thermals.

1. Buggy bios
2. My H150i Pro is getting old and maybe can't manage to keep this cpu at decent temps.
3. Unlucky silicon lottery

Probably my next step will be to buy a new cooler during september.


----------



## elbubi

BNSoul said:


> CPPC preferred cores -Disabled


What bennefit do you get by disabling preferred cores?


----------



## Blameless

elbubi said:


> What bennefit do you get by disabling preferred cores?


Typically better scheduling/less core contention, on single CCD parts.


----------



## pfinch

BNSoul said:


> CPPC -Enabled
> CPPC preferred cores -Disabled
> GLOBAL C-STATES -Enabled/Auto (don't disable)
> 
> W11 Performance plan: balanced.
> W11 Power settings: balanced.


L1+L2 Prefetcher disabled gives me ~15400 CB23 scores, auto/enabled max 15100 ... on x570 asus crosshair

Why not using max performance power plan?


----------



## Taraquin

BNSoul said:


> It's not a CPU problem as most people here have evidenced, maybe you got a buggy BIOS, the operating system isn't correctly installed (don't dare to just drop the CPU in the socket without installing the OS afresh) or your cooling solution is not working as intended.
> 
> Look, I get this with zero overclocking:
> View attachment 2568877
> 
> 
> With this:
> View attachment 2568878
> 
> 
> So the CPU doesn't need anything that special as you're implying. I hope you enjoy your new 5950X though, this is one of the first Spiderman remastered CPU benchmarks with an unoptimized 5800X3D:
> 
> View attachment 2568879
> 
> 
> The 5800X3D is 29% faster than a 5950X and 32% faster than a 5800X with much improved frame pacing, meaning 8 additional cores are not helping much.
> 
> And productivity apps running on Linux:
> View attachment 2568881
> 
> 
> So yeah if you came here to troll with the 90+ temperatures despite the fancy water-cooling complains and immediately after that you casually mention a 5950X would be better then I'm showing you the door and wishing you good luck, we thought we were done with the 5800X troll a few days ago but looks like they must be breeding.


5950X can gain some ground vs 5800X3D if ram is tuned (about 15% vs 3% on 3800cl14 tuned), but 5800X3D is still atleast 15% faster on avg, and seems 5800X3D is the hottest Zen 3, but those temps sound unusually high. On a good AIO during gaming it shouldn't be that hot.


----------



## BNSoul

elbubi said:


> What bennefit do you get by disabling preferred cores?


Since all cores are yielding basically the same performance you'd want to avoid apps hogging said preferred cores for no reason, disabling the option enhances multi-threaded workloads by 20-30% in most cases.


----------



## BNSoul

pfinch said:


> L1+L2 Prefetcher disabled gives me ~15400 CB23 scores, auto/enabled max 15100 ... on x570 asus crosshair
> 
> Why not using max performance power plan?


are you overclocking ?


----------



## Drengur

I can't run on -30 on all, but -25 works fine. I am hovering around 15000 on C23, but I do get lower scores by changing the max wattage and amperage. My temps go to around 83-84°c. I do not have an aggressive fan curve, could probably get the temps a bit lower. I have a BeQuiet case which isn't all that airflow focused though. My question is: at what temp does the boost start to degrade, and at what temp would this CPU do best?


----------



## pfinch

BNSoul said:


> are you overclocking ?


Nope, BCLK 100
Just PBO and FCLK:IF 3800


----------



## BNSoul

elbubi said:


> View attachment 2568886


nice man ! so what was your problem with voltages and core boosting? I see all your CPU cores hit at least a healthy 4540MHz real measured speed (not the convoluted averages that effective clocks show when running default and not in snapshot mode)

contrast yours with my CPU cores to see how similar voltages are










I'd say it's looking pretty much healthy at this point?


----------



## BNSoul

pfinch said:


> Nope, BCLK 100
> Just PBO and FCLK:IF 3800


Then you could try go with auto C-states and disable prefetchers, it's rare that in a modern CPU they would degrade performance since it's a proven algorithm that helps data filling available cache, maybe it's a Cinebench thing since the instruction pipeline is pretty much sequential and doesn't need any kind of guessing.


----------



## BNSoul

Drengur said:


> I can't run on -30 on all, but -25 works fine. I am hovering around 15000 on C23, but I do get lower scores by changing the max wattage and amperage. My temps go to around 83-84°c. I do not have an aggressive fan curve, could probably get the temps a bit lower. I have a BeQuiet case which isn't all that airflow focused though. My question is: at what temp does the boost start to degrade, and at what temp would this CPU do best?


you should score higher going 114 75 115 and -25 in your case, temps are hitting the throttling threshold so yeah anything over 79ºC will start pushing your CPU speed back in -25 MHz steps all the way down to base clocks if the cooling solution can't keep temps under control. I'd say this CPU works best in the 40-60ºC range, I believe there's a tiny degradation in single-core boosting speeds past 68ºC but multi core speed 4450 MHz remains flatline unwavering until the 80-ish temp mentioned above.


----------



## Drengur

Thank you @BNSoul. I will try that. I can see from your previous posts that we have a similar setup (same cooler, same fans), so I could actually try your cooler-tweak when I have the time. Edit: I might add that ambient tempratures are probably quite lower where I live, it is the middle of summer and today is a good day with outside temps around 13°c.


----------



## BNSoul

Drengur said:


> Thank you @BNSoul. I will try that. I can see from your previous posts that we have a similar setup (same cooler, same fans), so I could actually try your cooler-tweak when I have the time. Edit: I might add that ambient tempratures are probably quite lower where I live, it is the middle of summer and today is a good day with outside temps around 13°c.


so you also changed the fans on the DRP4? I have a Noctua 12x25 and a Silent Wings Pro 4 pushing air from the sides to the middle of the radiator (I took out the default fan in the middle just for this) in otder to build air pressure (thanks to the front plate cover preventing the flow from escaping) and thus getting cool air pushed back into the CPU socket as it's the only way it can go, all the other fans around are high-speed (but silent) be quiet fans pushing cool air into the VRMs + CPU socket + memory banks area while bringing the flow down into the exhaust points. If the DRP4 wouldn't have the front plate thingy this design wouldn't work at all as the airflow would be all over the place instead of following the intended path. My father once told me it was a stupid design for such a radiator to have a front cover like that trapping air but then he thought how to make the best out of that design, and it worked, I wish I had his train of thought with regard to this stuff.

Also 13º is summer for you? Today is 41º high and 25º expected low, a nice day in the summer weather would be 19º at best early June or late August. To be honest the fall and winter are extremely different with temps ranging snowy -10º to chill 15º max until the spring time, weather is this extreme as the place where I live is basically a ski resort which in turn is just 25 min drive away from a tropical beach, so it's hot in the summer and ice cold all the other seasons.


----------



## BNSoul

pfinch said:


> Nope, BCLK 100
> Just PBO and FCLK:IF 3800


nice mate, can you post screenshot of CB23 run with prefetchers off with HWiNFO in snapshot mode running on the side? It's just my curiosity to see this discrepancy with regard to the HW stream prefetchers.


----------



## Drengur

I could try this - if I have no other means of getting the temps down. For science of course. This summer has been the exact opposite of mainland Europe over here. Models had suggested this would happen; that is, with increasing global temperatures, the Gulf stream would slow down and therefore the weather in the North Atlantic would get worse and colder. Time will tell.


----------



## elbubi

BNSoul said:


> nice man ! *so what was your problem with voltages and core boosting*? I see all your CPU cores hit at least a healthy 4540MHz real measured speed (not the convoluted averages that effective clocks show when running default and not in snapshot mode)
> 
> contrast yours with my CPU cores to see how similar voltages are
> 
> View attachment 2568941
> 
> 
> I'd say it's looking pretty much healthy at this point?


My only problem is, still, that single core taks gets splitted into 2 cores, hence they get done in freqs. near 3.600Mhz as loads don't get over 50%


----------



## Drengur

114-75-115 got me 14756 with -25, but temps did not go above 79°c.


----------



## BNSoul

elbubi said:


> My only problem is, still, that single core taks gets splitted into 2 cores, hence they get done in freqs. near 3.600Mhz as loads don't get over 50%





elbubi said:


> My only problem is, still, that single core taks gets splitted into 2 cores, hence they get done in freqs. near 3.600Mhz as loads don't get over 50%


does it happen on every core? have you tried testing one core at a time individually? it's such a rare issue never heard of it...


----------



## pfinch

BNSoul said:


> nice mate, can you post screenshot of CB23 run with prefetchers off with HWiNFO in snapshot mode running on the side? It's just my curiosity to see this discrepancy with regard to the HW stream prefetchers.


sure. Prefetcher disabled, energy: max performance plan, -30 all core, 114-75-115


----------



## Awisko

Hello!

Long time lurker and just upgraded from a 5800x to a 5800x3d the past week and have generally been happy, but noticing a couple weird things.

1) i cant seem to get the cpu to boost to 4550 in ST in cpu-z, it will always top out at 4450 even with cstates set to enabled and cppc preferred cores set to disabled, my scores reflect this and the highest ive managed at stock with no tweaks is 610, average run for cpu-z ST is 605-608.

2) even with c states enabled, i dont see my cpu going below 0.927v even at idle in hwinfo, and base clock wont go below 3600mhz even at idle, is something wrong?

my cinebench multithread score is around 14100-14200 and my single in cb23 is only 1445

3600mhz cl16 ram not oc'd or anything, just xmp, asus x570 tuf mobo running the latest bios

i am cooling this beast with an arctic cooler 34 esports duo, not the greatest but its comparable to the darkrock 4 in performance, temps in cb23 allcore are around 83-84 max for one run, single thread about 62.



http://imgur.com/pKtpq9T


----------



## BNSoul

pfinch said:


> sure. Prefetcher disabled, energy: max performance plan, -30 all core, 114-75-115
> View attachment 2568964
> 
> View attachment 2568965


very nice!!! thanks a lot mate, are you using some Vcore offset? I see your power deviation report is just 93% when running Cinebench and even 50% in boost tester? how come? the CPU might be stretching clocks just to compensate, can you do another quick run with both prefetchers enabled, balanced power plan and HWiNFO default mode (turn off snapshot so we see effective averaged clocks) so I can write all the info I'm compiling on these HW prefetchers, you'd make my day, I compile info so I can write some paper later on, thanks a lot man you're making my day.


----------



## Awisko

Awisko said:


> Hello!
> 
> Long time lurker and just upgraded from a 5800x to a 5800x3d the past week and have generally been happy, but noticing a couple weird things.
> 
> 1) i cant seem to get the cpu to boost to 4550 in ST in cpu-z, it will always top out at 4450 even with cstates set to enabled and cppc preferred cores set to disabled, my scores reflect this and the highest ive managed at stock with no tweaks is 610, average run for cpu-z ST is 605-608.
> 
> 2) even with c states enabled, i dont see my cpu going below 0.927v even at idle in hwinfo, and base clock wont go below 3600mhz even at idle, is something wrong?
> 
> my cinebench multithread score is around 14100-14200 and my single in cb23 is only 1445
> 
> 3600mhz cl16 ram not oc'd or anything, just xmp, asus x570 tuf mobo running the latest bios
> 
> i am cooling this beast with an arctic cooler 34 esports duo, not the greatest but its comparable to the darkrock 4 in performance, temps in cb23 allcore are around 83-84 max for one run, single thread about 62.
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/pKtpq9T


so after a cmos reset, swapped a couple fans around and lowered my soc voltage to 1.075 from 1.1 (thats what the auto value gave me with xmp) im pulling 618 st and 6300 mt in cpu-z, and my cinebench st went from 1440 to 1475 and the cpu is finally boosting to 4550 in st cpu-z as well, awesome.

what i have noticed, my power reporting deviation in hwinfo while running c23 all core is 106%, so my mobo is over reporting the power to the cpu, thinking its pulling more than it really is (asus x570 tuf, non wifi) does that mean i can add a slight negative offset in ai tweaker for the cpu voltage to get a few more performance squeezes out of it? sorry for the newbie questions i havent paid much attention to the power reporting devation before, but afaik its better to have it slightly above 100 than slightly lower? 

thanks anyone in advance who can help !


----------



## AXi0M

Awisko said:


> so after a cmos reset, swapped a couple fans around and lowered my soc voltage to 1.075 from 1.1 (thats what the auto value gave me with xmp) im pulling 618 st and 6300 mt in cpu-z, and my cinebench st went from 1440 to 1475 and the cpu is finally boosting to 4550 in st cpu-z as well, awesome.
> 
> what i have noticed, my power reporting deviation in hwinfo while running c23 all core is 106%, so my mobo is over reporting the power to the cpu, thinking its pulling more than it really is (asus x570 tuf, non wifi) does that mean i can add a slight negative offset in ai tweaker for the cpu voltage to get a few more performance squeezes out of it? sorry for the newbie questions i havent paid much attention to the power reporting devation before, but afaik its better to have it slightly above 100 than slightly lower?
> 
> thanks anyone in advance who can help !


Must be an ASUS thing. My x570-prime pro is also 106% deviation in cpu-z and cinebench r23


----------



## pfinch

BNSoul said:


> very nice!!! thanks a lot mate, are you using some Vcore offset? I see your power deviation report is just 93% when running Cinebench and even 50% in boost tester? how come? the CPU might be stretching clocks just to compensate, can you do another quick run with both prefetchers enabled, balanced power plan and HWiNFO default mode (turn off snapshot so we see effective averaged clocks) so I can write all the info I'm compiling on these HW prefetchers, you'd make my day, I compile info so I can write some paper later on, thanks a lot man you're making my day.


Hmmm.. only llc3 on soc voltage (asus). other voltages in auto + llc.
do you think i've a problem? never looked at power deviation.


----------



## pfinch

AXi0M said:


> Must be an ASUS thing. My x570-prime pro is also 106% deviation in cpu-z and cinebench r23


maybe an asus bug or something ... i hope so


----------



## Awisko

AXi0M said:


> Must be an ASUS thing. My x570-prime pro is also 106% deviation in cpu-z and cinebench r23


im going to mess around with maybe trying a slight negative voltage offset for the cpu and also mess around with CO, because theoretically unless im wrong, that should give some bonus performance as the chip will actually pull a bit less, giving more room for thermals for boost? or am i completely wrong idk, in games the cpu is behaving beautifully, my lows are way up from my 5800x in destiny 2 1440p and in tarkov the experience is night and day at 1440p


----------



## MrHoof

Awisko said:


> so after a cmos reset, swapped a couple fans around and lowered my soc voltage to 1.075 from 1.1 (thats what the auto value gave me with xmp) im pulling 618 st and 6300 mt in cpu-z, and my cinebench st went from 1440 to 1475 and the cpu is finally boosting to 4550 in st cpu-z as well, awesome.
> 
> what i have noticed, my power reporting deviation in hwinfo while running c23 all core is 106%, so my mobo is over reporting the power to the cpu, thinking its pulling more than it really is (asus x570 tuf, non wifi) does that mean i can add a slight negative offset in ai tweaker for the cpu voltage to get a few more performance squeezes out of it? sorry for the newbie questions i havent paid much attention to the power reporting devation before, but afaik its better to have it slightly above 100 than slightly lower?
> 
> thanks anyone in advance who can help !


Some 5800x3d are even fine with SOC at 1v but when you lower SOC lower vddg IOD to atleast 50mv below SOC.
So if its 1v SOC 0.95 IOD, same for CCD they are supplied by the SOC voltage so they should be a little bit lower.
But make sure to test memory stability and checking for whea 19 in event viewer when changing those.
They still count into PPT value so anything u can shave off here can have positive effect.


Spoiler: My settings















edit: noticed your running 3600mhz so you probably be fine at 1v or maybe even lower.


----------



## Awisko

MrHoof said:


> Some 5800x3d are even fine with SOC at 1v but when you lower SOC lower vddg IOD to atleast 50mv below SOC.
> So if its 1v SOC 0.95 IOD, same for CCD they are supplied by the SOC voltage so they should be a little bit lower.
> But make sure to test memory stability and checking for whea 19 in event viewer when changing those.
> They still count into PPT value so anything u can shave off here can have positive effect.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: My settings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2568973
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: noticed your running 3600mhz so you probably be fine at 1v or maybe even lower.


hey thanks for the advice, ill look into doing that later and report my findings, right now my zentimings looks like this :








this is all default docp settings with no changes to any timings or voltages other than soc to 1.07 in bios (not sure why its reported even lower here, might have something to do with the hwinfo power reporting deviation thing, where it thinks its pulling more than it really is)

and here is my zen timings from when i had my 5800x and tuned the memory a bit (its hynix cjr i believe) would trying to go back to this on the 5800x3d net me any performance or just better to leave at docp set and forget?


----------



## AXi0M

Awisko said:


> im going to mess around with maybe trying a slight negative voltage offset for the cpu and also mess around with CO, because theoretically unless im wrong, that should give some bonus performance as the chip will actually pull a bit less, giving more room for thermals for boost? or am i completely wrong idk, in games the cpu is behaving beautifully, my lows are way up from my 5800x in destiny 2 1440p and in tarkov the experience is night and day at 1440p


Mine is 106% at stock and with -30 PBO offset, never tried voltage offset in bios though. I've noticed the same in tarkov, the extra cache completely fixes the bad optimization lol


----------



## BNSoul

pfinch said:


> Hmmm.. only llc3 on soc voltage (asus). other voltages in auto + llc.
> do you think i've a problem? never looked at power deviation.


low power deviation means your CPU is overworking itself, it's like a cheap overclocking (some manufacturers used to under-report power to achieve better scores in benchmarks, then they would fix that later with a BIOS update), so as long as your cooling solution is on point you'll get better performance for free.

On a side note, what setting for LLC? why not auto LLC? that could lead to CPU degradation. I would be interested in comparing your CB23 results with HW prefetchers enabled + LLC auto so I can get more stats in my database of 5800X3D configs + results, do you think you can do that in a couple mins? Thanks in advance.


----------



## pfinch

BNSoul said:


> low power deviation means your CPU is overworking itself, it's like a cheap overclocking (some manufacturers used to under-report power to achieve better scores in benchmarks, then they would fix that later with a BIOS update), so as long as your cooling solution is on point you'll get better performance for free.
> 
> On a side note, what setting for LLC? why not auto LLC? that could lead to CPU degradation. I would be interested in comparing your CB23 results with HW prefetchers enabled + LLC auto so I can get more stats in my database of 5800X3D configs + results, do you think you can do that in a couple mins? Thanks in advance.


Balanced win11, llc auto, hw prefetcher auto/enabled, -30 allcore, 114-75-115
hwinfo no snapshot mode this time


----------



## BNSoul

pfinch said:


> Balanced win11, llc auto, hw prefetcher auto/enabled, -30 allcore, 114-75-115
> hwinfo no snapshot mode this time
> View attachment 2569039


Thank you so much mate, both your results go into the database I'm compiling on 5800X3D optimizations with a noteworthy mention to HW prefetchers and manual LLC / power report' impact on sequential instruction queues the likes of Cinebench.

This test you just did is much more realistic with regard to the actual performance of your CPU + motherboard combo, as you can observe there's clock stretching as I guessed yesterday with cores barely reaching 4444-4445, then again power deviation is acting up and seems like bugged on your motherboard with LLC on auto, which is the CPU-healthy option for stock 100.0MHz CPUs. However the CPU is no longer overworking itself as you're not artificially fiddling with LLC.

In my opinion your motherboard has this problem with power report calibration and LLC on Auto seems to put a higher strain on the CPU than whatever manual setting you used on LLC yesterday, but the safe option is still Auto. That manual tweak yesterday served for the CPU to yield slightly better performance but could lead to degradation. The difference is around 1-2% just in this extreme benchmark case so it's not worth reverting to manual settings.

Then again the HW prefetchers settings could be badly implemented and maybe they're slightly overworking your CPU, but then again the fact remains that power deviation is an issue regardless of the prefetchers and LLC settings. Have you compared with other users of the same board? Did you perform a full CMOS reset before installing the CPU?

I always post the same example just to evidence that with a healthy power report, LLC on auto and HW prefetchers enabled the CPU tends to get almost perfect effective clocks (4449-4450) under heavy load at 114 75 115 -30 all-core, it's not overworking itself so temperatures are also constrained.









So what do you think? Are you even noticing improved performance in games with manual LLC? It seems that your board (with the power deviation issues) seems to yield very slightly extra performance with manual voltage/current corrections but there's the degradation issue since we don't know to which extent this manual setting is physically affecting the CPU outside of the safe auto settings.

When the heat wave is over (now with 42-44º I don't even think about powering on my computers) I will test with manual LLC on "medium" and prefetchers disabled so I can get further feedback and come back to you. I still believe prefetchers should be enabled on modern CPUs and that they can cause a minor performance drop in sequential operations but in most cases they're supposed to accelerate the memory subsystem with pretty much proven algorithms.


----------



## MrHoof

Awisko said:


> hey thanks for the advice, ill look into doing that later and report my findings, right now my zentimings looks like this :
> View attachment 2568974
> 
> this is all default docp settings with no changes to any timings or voltages other than soc to 1.07 in bios (not sure why its reported even lower here, might have something to do with the hwinfo power reporting deviation thing, where it thinks its pulling more than it really is)
> 
> and here is my zen timings from when i had my 5800x and tuned the memory a bit (its hynix cjr i believe) would trying to go back to this on the 5800x3d net me any performance or just better to leave at docp set and forget?
> View attachment 2568975


Thats what I mean with keeping a 50mv gap between VSOC and VDDG IOD.
Lower them both if your are lowering SOC atm u have a 20mv gap between them since auto IOD is 1.05v.


----------



## pfinch

BNSoul said:


> Thank you so much mate, both your results go into the database I'm compiling on 5800X3D optimizations with a noteworthy mention to HW prefetchers and manual LLC / power report' impact on sequential instruction queues the likes of Cinebench.
> 
> This test you just did is much more realistic with regard to the actual performance of your CPU + motherboard combo, as you can observe there's clock stretching as I guessed yesterday with cores barely reaching 4444-4445, then again power deviation is acting up and seems like bugged on your motherboard with LLC on auto, which is the CPU-healthy option for stock 100.0MHz CPUs. However the CPU is no longer overworking itself as you're not artificially fiddling with LLC.
> 
> In my opinion your motherboard has this problem with power report calibration and LLC on Auto seems to put a higher strain on the CPU than whatever manual setting you used on LLC yesterday, but the safe option is still Auto. That manual tweak yesterday served for the CPU to yield slightly better performance but could lead to degradation. The difference is around 1-2% just in this extreme benchmark case so it's not worth reverting to manual settings.
> 
> Then again the HW prefetchers settings could be badly implemented and maybe they're slightly overworking your CPU, but then again the fact remains that power deviation is an issue regardless of the prefetchers and LLC settings. Have you compared with other users of the same board? Did you perform a full CMOS reset before installing the CPU?
> 
> I always post the same example just to evidence that with a healthy power report, LLC on auto and HW prefetchers enabled the CPU tends to get almost perfect effective clocks (4449-4450) under heavy load at 114 75 115 -30 all-core, it's not overworking itself so temperatures are also constrained.
> View attachment 2569041
> 
> 
> So what do you think? Are you even noticing improved performance in games with manual LLC? It seems that your board (with the power deviation issues) seems to yield very slightly extra performance with manual voltage/current corrections but there's the degradation issue since we don't know to which extent this manual setting is physically affecting the CPU outside of the safe auto settings.
> 
> When the heat wave is over (now with 42-44º I don't even think about powering on my computers) I will test with manual LLC on "medium" and prefetchers disabled so I can get further feedback and come back to you. I still believe prefetchers should be enabled on modern CPUs and that they can cause a minor performance drop in sequential operations but in most cases they're supposed to accelerate the memory subsystem with pretty much proven algorithms.


Hm, hwinfo says that <90 - <110% is ok for power deviation


----------



## jootn2kx

Been following this thread a bit and I was a little surprised no one has tried the unreal engine 5 tech demo's with this cpu ? Like for example the one from the matrix which has a massive cpu bottleneck even at 3440x1440 resolution with my 5600x + 3080TI.
Gpu usage is only around 70-80% and its not the only game I noticed, watch dogs legion for example the same issue in some parts.

I still have it installed on my computer I guess ill try this out when I receive my cpu in couple of days. Ill compare it with my 5600X on 3440x1440 resolution.

I just wonder does anyone else see big dips in GPU usage (cpu bottleneck) with 5600x and 3080ti combo in some games on higer resolution like 3440x1440 or is it just me?


----------



## BNSoul

pfinch said:


> Hm, hwinfo says that <90 - <110% is ok for power deviation


It's ok but it's not optimized, also you did show on the screenshots power report deviations up to (or down to) 53%. On the manual LLC thingy, yes it helps with performance as it's overworking your CPU, it's literally negating the natural amount of V-drops that happen during normal operation and can lead to physical degradation. I'm not sure about using that instead of Auto when it's just gaining you 1% performance in a synthetic benchmark like Cinebench while causing core clocks stretching which hurts performance in gaming. These are all known side effects.

You have a good CPU there mate just try and fix the 53% power deviation occurrences and use Auto LLC even if just for peace of mind. The difference between 15000 and 15500 points in Cinebench means absolutely nothing in gaming since the workloads are extremely different in every way imaginable. The actual purpose of testing Cinebench is observing the performance of your cooling solution and, equally as important, measuring effective clocks so you get hints to further tweak your CPU in order to remove clock stretching.


----------



## Mask

For BCLK overclocking are FCLK and UCLK tied to BCLK? So if I set my BCLK to 101.9 and lower my memory frequency from 3733 to 3666, do I set my FCLK to 1833 or keep it at 1867?


----------



## sealxohd

Mask said:


> For BCLK overclocking are FCLK and UCLK tied to BCLK? So if I set my BCLK to 101.9 and lower my memory frequency from 3733 to 3666, do I set my FCLK to 1833 or keep it at 1867?


Everything is tied to the BCLK. Adjust MCLK and FCLK accordingly.


----------



## F0erster

Hi friends, i'm in the 5800X3D club as well now. 
Because i have a beefy custom loop, i want to maximise my performance, but cannot get the CPU to boost over 4450MHz. Running everything on an Gigabyte Aorus Elite 1.0 with Agesa 1.2.0.7 BIOS (F37c) with clear CMOS and double overwritten bios after factory resetting. Fresh Win11 installation, latest AMD chipset drivers.

What i did so far:
CPPC Enabled 
CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled 
Global C-State Control Enabled 
MannixBoostTester with -30 all and recommended settings (114, 75, 115)

None of the cores ever reach more than 4450. I also tested different iterations of values as well as completely stock. The CPU rarely reaches higher than 70°C. 
Any ideas what i can do to get this more optimized?

Thank you 

Below pic of the -30 all, (114, 75, 115) run:


----------



## sealxohd

F0erster said:


> Hi friends, i'm in the 5800X3D club as well now.
> Because i have a beefy custom loop, i want to maximise my performance, but cannot get the CPU to boost over 4450MHz. Running everything on an Gigabyte Aorus Elite 1.0 with Agesa 1.2.0.7 BIOS (F37c) with clear CMOS and double overwritten bios after factory resetting. Fresh Win11 installation, latest AMD chipset drivers.
> 
> What i did so far:
> CPPC Enabled
> CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled
> Global C-State Control Enabled
> MannixBoostTester with -30 all and recommended settings (114, 75, 115)
> 
> None of the cores ever reach more than 4450. I also tested different iterations of values as well as completely stock. The CPU rarely reaches higher than 70°C.
> Any ideas what i can do to get this more optimized?
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Below pic of the -30 all, (114, 75, 115) run:
> 
> View attachment 2569189


Where come these weird limits from? But anyways, maybe your cores are already to hot for 4550 boost or you have something open that hits the cores slighty besides the boost tester. The max sc boost is only achieved when the other cores are basically doing nothing.


----------



## BNSoul

As discussed with my mate here @pfinch disabling both HW prefetchers in BIOS may increase Cinebench benchmarks a tiny bit (0,025%) due to the extremely sequential, scripted-like nature of the test. However I didn't observe any gains using other apps or, more importantly, in gaming, where prefetchers do help.

prefetchers disabled: 1504 SC, 15439 MC









Everything stock, no Vcore offsets, default 100.0MHz base clock, auto LLC, and 114 75 115 -30 all-core PBO2 Tuner settings. It's not a meaningful difference but effective clocks do look really good. After the test right enable both prefetchers back 👍


----------



## F0erster

sealxohd said:


> Where come these weird limits from? But anyways, maybe your cores are already to hot for 4550 boost or you have something open that hits the cores slighty besides the boost tester. The max sc boost is only achieved when the other cores are basically doing nothing.


i don't know what it is, i certainly was not gaming during the boost test, just a little browsing during the test. Heat i cannot imagine because like i said my pc is watercooled with 2x 360mm and 1x 420mm radiators and i applied liquid metal thermal compound on the cpu. Heat dissipation should not be a factor in my build i reckon.


----------



## sealxohd

F0erster said:


> i don't know what it is, i certainly was not gaming during the boost test, just a little browsing during the test. Heat i cannot imagine because like i said my pc is watercooled with 2x 360mm and 1x 420mm radiators and i applied liquid metal thermal compound on the cpu. Heat dissipation should not be a factor in my build i reckon.


Its the browsing  I cant hit 4550 with firefox open either. With firefox closed and stock limits:


----------



## BNSoul

sealxohd said:


> Its the browsing  I cant hit 4550 with firefox open either. With firefox closed and stock limits:
> 
> View attachment 2569220


Put HWiNFO64 in "Zen Snapshot Mode" to see the actual speeds of the cores which are boosting instead of the generic nominal 4550 stuff .


----------



## CyberBongi

What do you guys think, 3733 MT/s with 1.1375v soc + (1.125v is almost stable but has little stutters at certain points in games, it's barely noticable but not fluid for sure) with timings of 14-14-14-28 42,
OR
3666 MT/s with 1.1v soc, and timings of 13-14-14-28 42 (dropped CL from 14 to 13, also lower soc voltage).

Didn't win the infinity fabric lottery this round, so I've gotta work with what I have. 3800 MT/s is a big no no, freezes on bios. I'd imagine that 3733 stretches this IF.


----------



## sealxohd

BNSoul said:


> Put HWiNFO64 in "Zen Snapshot Mode" to see the actual speeds of the cores which are boosting instead of the generic nominal 4550 stuff .


Didnt change much besides that the reported clocks and effective clocks are now +-1 MHz which is neat.


----------



## F0erster

well, i just saw there is a new BIOS F37d which i installed and also re-ran boost tester without firefox on this time.
result at -30 allcore looks better, but still not perfect. But an improvement nonetheless:


----------



## BNSoul

sealxohd said:


> Didnt change much besides that the reported clocks and effective clocks are now +-1 MHz which is neat.
> 
> View attachment 2569262


Why are you rounding the clocks?
In snapshot mode the effective clocks are meant to be ignored since the clocks already show the true speed registered by the CPU.


----------



## BNSoul

F0erster said:


> well, i just saw there is a new BIOS F37d which i installed and also re-ran boost tester without firefox on this time.
> result at -30 allcore looks better, but still not perfect. But an improvement nonetheless:


I'm on the same board X570 Elite with same BIOS F37d that I installed a while ago when it got uploaded to the server (a week before they get published on the support website)

Going by my results I think it's a CPU issue you have there, what manufacturing date is it? Did you perform a full CMOS reset? Did you do a clean W11 install after setting up the BIOS? Make sure that PBO2 Tuner is not running (don't even open it) before installing / uninstalling AMD X570 chipset drivers.

I have no issues running 3800MT/S DDR4 1:1 with 1900 FCLK and 1900 UCLK, SoC voltage at just 1.05, I tried 1.0 and still worked but having read about stability and performance issues at such low voltage (when overclocking RAM) I decided to bump it slightly. You can see my RAM settings below in some of the screenshots.

CPU at stock 100.0MHz, no overclock, just PBO2 Tuner with different settings suiting the task at hand, X570 AORUS Elite F37d + 100.0MHz 5800X3D results:

Boosting tester by @ManniX-ITA (HWiNFO64 running in snapshot mode, true recorded speed, not rounded for result transparency)









3 cores boosting simultaneously (Y-Cruncher light FFT workload)









Cinebench R23 1504 single, 15439 multi









CPU-Z (the most irrelevant Windows service running in the background impacts results, I don't like this benchmark)









Geekbench 5









7-zip









JetStream2









AIDA64









OCCT single core tests (results in blue bar)


















So there you go, the motherboard is performing alright, I'm on a custom air cooler with temp rarely getting over 72º in benchmarks (usually 68-69) and 40-55º in gaming depending on title and framerate.

So try my suggestions and if you're still stuck then maybe you could try and change the CPU for a different one? RMA maybe since it's not boosting properly? Mine is an early sample 2207PGS, the same they used in most reviews.


----------



## F0erster

BNSoul said:


> I'm on the same board X570 Elite with same BIOS F37d that I installed a while ago when it got uploaded to the server (a week before they get published on the support website)
> 
> Going by my results I think it's a CPU issue you have there, what manufacturing date is it? Did you perform a full CMOS reset? Did you do a clean W11 install after setting up the BIOS? Make sure that PBO2 Tuner is not running (don't even open it) before installing / uninstalling AMD X570 chipset drivers.
> 
> I have no issues running 3800MT/S DDR4 1:1 with 1900 FCLK and 1900 UCLK, SoC voltage at just 1.05, I tried 1.0 and still worked but having read about stability and performance issues at such low voltage (when overclocking RAM) I decided to bump it slightly. You can see my RAM settings below in some of the screenshots.
> 
> CPU at stock 100.0MHz, no overclock, just PBO2 Tuner with different settings suiting the task at hand, X570 AORUS Elite F37d + 100.0MHz 5800X3D results:
> 
> Boosting tester by @ManniX-ITA (HWiNFO64 running in snapshot mode, true recorded speed, not rounded for result transparency)
> 
> So there you go, the motherboard is performing alright, I'm on a custom air cooler with temp rarely getting over 72º in benchmarks (usually 68-69) and 40-55º in gaming depending on title and framerate.
> 
> So try my suggestions and if you're still stuck then maybe you could try and change the CPU for a different one? RMA maybe since it's not boosting properly? Mine is an early sample 2207PGS, the same they used in most reviews.


Thanks BNSoul for your detailed reply.
To answer your questions to my best ability:

Win11 installation i did cleanly with a full format c:/
Downloaded and installed drivers (AMD chipset as well) cleanly before touching PBO2 Tuner
I only have 3200MHz Ram and i oc'd it up to 3600Mhz before but dirty with non optimized settings, currently running on 3200MHz XMP profile for that reason. 1:1 Infinity Fab / UCLK
CPU is a 2220PGS = Week 20?
I gotta admit that you having 72°C max. during Benchmarks is truly impressive with air cooling, as i have pushed mine to 80°C peak on watercooling. Do you run your CPU fan on 100%? I have roughly 29°C ambient temp on the floor (32°C head level, its nuts currently) and have a large custom loop with liquid metal on the CPU - so even with slow running fans my heat dissipation should not be a factor i would say.

As you can see, with -30 allcore (no capped PPT TDC EDC) only 3 of my cores manage to reach 4500 in single core boosting. but CPU never peaking above 65°. With my cooling capacity, should'nt i be able to reach 4550 on each indiviual core without negative curve settings?











If my CPU is a dud that can't reach 4550 ever, than so be it.. i don't think i'll be RMA'ing that since the performance in gaming is still top notch and i can't complain. I just need to accept the knowledge that there are some others out there with those extra 2-4% that i will not be able to reach


----------



## BNSoul

F0erster said:


> If my CPU is a dud that can't reach 4550 ever, than so be it.. i don't think i'll be RMA'ing that since the performance in gaming is still top notch and i can't complain. I just need to accept the knowledge that there are some others out there with those extra 2-4% that i will not be able to reach


I would RMA that CPU solely on the basis that it cannot reach the advertised 4.5.GHz (AMD never marketed this as boosting to 4550).


----------



## sealxohd

BNSoul said:


> Why are you rounding the clocks?
> In snapshot mode the effective clocks are meant to be ignored since the clocks already show the true speed registered by the CPU.


Ah ok, good to know. This makes HW way more tidy.

Why shouldnt I round the clocks to full MHz? Its more pleasent to look at. I reduced decimal digits for nearly everything.
Does it matter if a core clock is shown as 4000 instead of 4000.4 or is the data only valid if 10 decimal digits are shown?


----------



## BNSoul

sealxohd said:


> Ah ok, good to know. This makes HW way more tidy.
> 
> Why shouldnt I round the clocks to full MHz? Its more pleasent to look at. I reduced decimal digits for nearly everything.
> Does it matter if a core clock is shown as 4000 instead of 4000.4 or is the data only valid if 10 decimal digits are shown?


No mate, it's because a 4000.5 can be interpreted both ways unless the monitoring tool can also read beyond the first decimal, I wrote a mod for a popular hw monitoring app a while ago just to make it show complete readings but depending on the build it would use just one decimal and every .5 would turn straight into a full 1. It doesn't matter for clock speeds but for BCLK it's critical.

To put it shortly, me and my OCD 😅


----------



## sealxohd

BNSoul said:


> No mate, it's because a 4000.5 can be interpreted both ways unless the monitoring tool can also read beyond the first decimal, I wrote a mod for a popular hw monitoring app a while ago just to make it show complete readings but depending on the build it would use just one decimal and every .5 would turn straight into a full 1. It doesn't matter for clock speeds but for BCLK it's critical.
> 
> To put it shortly, me and my OCD 😅


For the BCLK it is indeed way more important. Weirdly HWInfo (snapshot mode on or off) shows a differnt BCLK speed (100.03) compared to CPU-Z (99.98) for me.


----------



## BNSoul

sealxohd said:


> For the BCLK it is indeed way more important. Weirdly HWInfo (snapshot mode on or off) shows a differnt BCLK speed (100.03) compared to CPU-Z (99.98) for me.


You'd expect the most critical reading to be measured reliably and consistently, right? Well it seems we're all wrong. Open three monitoring apps to measure BCLK and one out of three times they're not agreeing with each other. I learned that it's a BIOS issue specially when spread spectrum is enabled (unless you live directly under a military grade antenna it should be disabled).


----------



## jootn2kx

Received the 5800x3d yesterday and compared it to my older 5600x in games where I was experiencing cpu bottleneck at 3440x1440 resolution. My main issue was that I had gpu usage drops into 70/80% in half of my games where ray tracing and dlss was enabled.

After some testing in 2 games yesterday with 5800x3d and I had my save games located on the area of the game knew there were issues.

Watch dogs went from 62 fps average to 80 fps avarage @3440x1440 with my 3080TI
Star wars jedi fallen order 105fps to 144fps (huge increase!)
Almost all games feels much smoother and even at high resolution I saw big improvements, the 5600x was bottlenecking my 3080Ti without any doubt. The problem with my gpu usage that went down to 70/80% are resolved as I see around 100% In most games.
Just my 2 cents  amazing cpu

Edit: Also the tech demo the matrix city (unreal engine 5) my fps is going from 40 to 50 fps, thats 25% gain on 4K resolution. So it's possible this cpu will have a great benefit when UE5 games are coming out end of the year / 2023


----------



## guskline

jootn2kx: 

Great news! Glad you are happy with it.


----------



## AXi0M

jootn2kx said:


> Received the 5800x3d yesterday and compared it to my older 5600x in games where I was experiencing cpu bottleneck at 3440x1440 resolution. My main issue was that I had gpu usage drops into 70/80% in half of my games where ray tracing and dlss was enabled.
> 
> After some testing in 2 games yesterday with 5800x3d and I had my save games located on the area of the game knew there were issues.
> 
> Watch dogs went from 62 fps average to 80 fps avarage @3440x1440 with my 3080TI
> Star wars jedi fallen order 105fps to 144fps (huge increase!)
> Almost all games feels much smoother and even at high resolution I saw big improvements, the 5600x was bottlenecking my 3080Ti without any doubt. The problem with my gpu usage that went down to 70/80% are resolved as I see around 100% In most games.
> Just my 2 cents  amazing cpu
> 
> Edit: Also the tech demo the matrix city (unreal engine 5) my fps is going from 40 to 50 fps, thats 25% gain on 4K resolution. So it's possible this cpu will have a great benefit when UE5 games are coming out end of the year / 2023


Yeah this cpu is too good, it fixes badly optimized games (escape from tarkov) and chews through highly cpu demanding games (spider-man remastered) i think we got another i72600k on our hands


----------



## Taraquin

CyberBongi said:


> What do you guys think, 3733 MT/s with 1.1375v soc + (1.125v is almost stable but has little stutters at certain points in games, it's barely noticable but not fluid for sure) with timings of 14-14-14-28 42,
> OR
> 3666 MT/s with 1.1v soc, and timings of 13-14-14-28 42 (dropped CL from 14 to 13, also lower soc voltage).
> 
> Didn't win the infinity fabric lottery this round, so I've gotta work with what I have. 3800 MT/s is a big no no, freezes on bios. I'd imagine that 3733 stretches this IF.


3733 will be slightly better due to BW, what voltages do you run elsewhere? IOD, CCD and VDDP can contribute. Running higher SOC will raise I\O-die consumption and hence temps slightly, but many people can run CCD and VDDP way lower than auto values and this will help bring temps down.


----------



## BNSoul

AXi0M said:


> Yeah this cpu is too good, it fixes badly optimized games (escape from tarkov) and chews through highly cpu demanding games (spider-man remastered) i think we got another i72600k on our hands


Spider-man maxed out looks stunning, I put my 5800X3D to the test with PBO2 optimized values and max graphics settings included max ray tracing options, at 1080p 200+ fps I saw my X3D hitting 80-85% usage in ridiculously crowded and traffic jammed areas but never skipping a frame (it's impressive) and hoovering at 55º-58ºC, what a freaking beast... and this is one of the worst CPU optimized games in years, ppl are even disabling multi-threading on weaker CPUs just to hit playable rates.


----------



## gffermari

This cpu is so good that AMD had to limit it to 8/16 cores and 4.5Ghz.
If they released the 5900X3D, they showed back then or a 5800X3D at 4.9-5Ghz, it would destroy the sales of zen 4 and anything else out there.

* I have to admit that I was in a dilemma between a 5950X and the 3D. I made the …sane choice purchasing the 5950X and some minutes later I cancelled the order and went for the 3D. Lol.

Im really looking forward to seeing a 5.5Ghz Zen 4 3D…


----------



## BNSoul

gffermari said:


> This cpu is so good that AMD had to limit it to 8/16 cores and 4.5Ghz.
> If they released the 5900X3D, they showed back then or a 5800X3D at 4.9-5Ghz, it would destroy the sales of zen 4 and anything else out there.
> 
> * I have to admit that I was in a dilemma between a 5950X and the 3D. I made the …sane choice purchasing the 5950X and some minutes later I cancelled the order and went for the 3D. Lol.
> 
> Im really looking forward to seeing a 5.5Ghz Zen 4 3D…


A 5800X3D with a couple more cores and +200 MHz would rarely make a difference in gaming but productivity gains would be welcome. The 7800X3D with DDR5 and that vastly improved single thread performance though... I must resist temptation, the sooner I buy a new GPU the easier it will be to just wait for Zen 5 3D


----------



## gffermari

3D clearly needed 200-400Mhz more in order to be the absolute gaming cpu without having the intel fanboys cry over the KS.
Yes, more cores and even more cache probably would not improve the performance in gaming.

I think we can easily resist Zen 4. Probably Zen 4 3D too. Although when Lisa showed 5.4-5.5Ghz in gaming live, I felt my 3D sweating…


----------



## user55101

Did anyone tried a positive curve on the best 2 cores and negative curve on the other cores ? Is there any benefit to be gain there ? 
I still have room thermal wise 

Asus B-550 A
5800X3D
Samsung B-Die ram


----------



## BCB57

Not possible on the X3D.


----------



## user55101

turn out not to be true at all I have no room for thermal... I made my first comment base on my in game result by running Cinebench I it 90 degree and with negative curve applied my score get worst 
did anyone had similar result ?


----------



## Taraquin

user55101 said:


> Did anyone tried a positive curve on the best 2 cores and negative curve on the other cores ? Is there any benefit to be gain there ?
> I still have room thermal wise
> 
> Asus B-550 A
> 5800X3D
> Samsung B-Die ram


There is no positive of running + on curve optimizer, find lowest stable negative, it either works or it don't  Positive just raises voltage at the given frequency, no benefits, only higher temps/consumption.


----------



## Blameless

BNSoul said:


> In snapshot mode the effective clocks are meant to be ignored since the clocks already show the true speed registered by the CPU.


Effective clocks that fall significantly below the true clocks are indicative of clock stretching, which is itself usually an issue with too much vdroop, to strong a negative voltage offset, or other incorrect power settings.

Snapshot mode doesn't make recording effective clocks less useful, it makes it easier to discern clock stretching through the noise.



Taraquin said:


> There is no positive of running + on curve optimizer, find lowest stable negative, it either works or it don't  Positive just raises voltage at the given frequency, no benefits, only higher temps/consumption.


The best all-round settings for my 5800X (non-3D sample) had positive COs on two cores (the final spread was -28 to +7, between cores). This was the only way to make the chip fully stable at the boost override I was using and capping boost to the point I could get by with no positive offset was a wash for sustained all-core boost, and 100MHz reduction on lightly-threaded boost.

My 5800X3D sample is happy with -30 on all cores, but were it unlocked, and if I were able to cool it, there might have been a boost clock where some positive offset eventually produced best results.


----------



## Taraquin

Blameless said:


> Effective clocks that fall significantly below the true clocks are indicative of clock stretching, which is itself usually an issue with too much vdroop, to strong a negative voltage offset, or other incorrect power settings.
> 
> Snapshot mode doesn't make recording effective clocks less useful, it makes it easier to discern clock stretching through the noise.
> 
> 
> 
> The best all-round settings for my 5800X (non-3D sample) had positive COs on two cores (the final spread was -28 to +7, between cores). This was the only way to make the chip fully stable at the boost override I was using and capping boost to the point I could get by with no positive offset was a wash for sustained all-core boost, and 100MHz reduction on lightly-threaded boost.
> 
> My 5800X3D sample is happy with -30 on all cores, but were it unlocked, and if I were able to cool it, there might have been a boost clock where some positive offset eventually produced best results.


I thought when running just CO like 5800X3D has as the moment. If you need positive CO on some cores running stock then CPU is faulty. With +200 pbo things change


----------



## Blameless

Taraquin said:


> I thought when running just CO like 5800X3D has as the moment. If you need positive CO on some cores running stock then CPU is faulty. With +200 pbo things change


Yes, a 5800X3D needing a positive CO would be extremely unusual and if actually the case, is a defective part that should be returned.


----------



## Petrarca

After trying any possible PBO2 setup. I was reaching around 14700 in cb23(bad ram probably) and 82c during test.
Now I tryed msi combo strike lvl3 and -0.1 voltage offset. Voila mostly 1500 cb23 and 78c during test. Magic? I don't know. 

b450 carbon agesa 1.2.0.7


----------



## BCB57

Petrarca said:


> After trying any possible PBO2 setup. I was reaching around 14700 in cb23(bad ram probably) and 82c during test.
> Now I tryed msi combo strike lvl3 and -0.1 voltage offset. Voila mostly 1500 cb23 and 78c during test. Magic? I don't know.
> 
> b450 carbon agesa 1.2.0.7


It's the voltage offset that's doing it for you, by keeping peak temp below 80c. 

My experience is similar, although I'm using a -0.0625v offset. Am also limiting PPT to 112w and adjusting my best three cores to -23, -23 and -27 using PBO2 Tuner, to even out the BoostTesterMannix core max frequencies. Those single-core boost frequencies run between 4540 and 4542 Mhz in "snapshot" mode, with the "effective" frequencies at about 4538 in real-world conditions with normal background apps running.

With the -0.1 voltage offset, what's your max VCORE during a CB23 run? I'm seeing a max of 1.116v per HWiNFO64. Maybe I'll try -0.1 with stock PPT just to see what happens...


----------



## Petrarca

BCB57 said:


> It's the voltage offset that's doing it for you, by keeping peak temp below 80c.
> 
> My experience is similar, although I'm using a -0.0625v offset. Am also limiting PPT to 112w and adjusting my best three cores to -23, -23 and -27 using PBO2 Tuner, to even out the BoostTesterMannix core max frequencies. Those single-core boost frequencies run between 4540 and 4542 Mhz in "snapshot" mode, with the "effective" frequencies at about 4538 in real-world conditions with normal background apps running.
> 
> With the -0.1 voltage offset, what's your max VCORE during a CB23 run? I'm seeing a max of 1.116v per HWiNFO64. Maybe I'll try -0.1 with stock PPT just to see what happens...


My vcore during c23 is between 1.188 and 1.200 probably bad sample or mobo is pushing to much.


----------



## BCB57

Petrarca said:


> My vcore during c23 is between 1.188 and 1.200 probably bad sample or mobo is pushing to much.


Interesting -- thanks. You might try more of an offset then (if that's possible in bios?) to see if you can do even better. With CB23 in the 15,000 range I doubt there's anything wrong with your sample.


----------



## Petrarca

BCB57 said:


> Interesting -- thanks. You might try more of an offset then (if that's possible in bios?) to see if you can do even better. With CB23 in the 15,000 range I doubt there's anything wrong with your sample.


I will try later to undervolt more. My goal is mostly to reduce temps without affect to much performance. I render or bake textures in blender sometimes and temps go mad in that situations. 
I have Arctic freezer 420(Works fine. Repasted, offset mounted etc), but seems like our cpu can't transfer heat effectively.


----------



## Mask

Petrarca said:


> I will try later to undervolt more. My goal is mostly to reduce temps without affect to much performance. I render or bake textures in blender sometimes and temps go mad in that situations.
> I have Arctic freezer 420(Works fine. Repasted, offset mounted etc), but seems like our cpu can't transfer heat effectively.


Try lowering your PPT, TDC, and EDC. I am at 110W/80A/110A respectively. I am using PBO2 Tuner and Task Scheduler so these limits are applied on Windows login. This gave me a big reduction in temps and little to no performance loss. I am also doing -30mV offset all cores as well.


----------



## Petrarca

Mask said:


> Try lowering your PPT, TDC, and EDC. I am at 110W/80A/110A respectively. I am using PBO2 Tuner and Task Scheduler so these limits are applied on Windows login. This gave me a big reduction in temps and little to no performance loss. I am also doing -30mV offset all cores as well.


Good but, with combo strike lvl 3 and -0.125 underwolt I have 500 more points with same 75c temp. 
ps
Feels good for me. Also preaty hot in the room, 30c. Any good thread where ask tips how to overclock my ram?


----------



## BNSoul

Petrarca said:


> Good but, with combo strike lvl 3 and -1.125 underwolt I have 500 more points with same 75c temp.
> ps
> Feels good for me. Also preaty hot in the room, 30c. Any good thread where ask tips how to overclock my ram?


How are those effective clocks with so many offsets going on? Clock stretching leads to stuttering and reduced performance, particularly in gaming.


----------



## Petrarca

BNSoul said:


> How are those effective clocks with so many offsets going on? Clock stretching leads to stuttering and reduced performance, particularly in gaming.


Sorry stupid typo. -0.125.

I have never seen before 15000 in cb23 before. During test all cores are around 4.4ghz. Performance goes down if I set more than -0.1.

-0.1 | cb15040 | 80c
-0.125 | cb1490 | 75c

I prefer the second one.


----------



## BNSoul

Petrarca said:


> Sorry stupid typo. -0.125.
> 
> I have never seen before 15000 in cb23 before. During test all cores are around 4.4ghz. Performance goes down if I set more than -0.1.
> 
> -0.1 | cb15040 | 80c
> -0.125 | cb1490 | 75c
> 
> I prefer the second one.


That's really nice, below I link you my current best result with no overclock and no negative offset either (my X570 doesn't include the feature yet, it was there for Zen 2-3 but removed for 3D part).

You can see details on the screenshot, pay attention to effective clocks being perfect meaning virtually zero clock stretching. Disable prefetchers on BIOS to gain 100-ish points in Cinebench (enable them for everything else).

114 75 115, -30 all-core.

1508 single core, 15451 multi-core


----------



## BNSoul

Blameless said:


> Snapshot mode doesn't make recording effective clocks less useful, it makes it easier to discern clock stretching through the noise.


But effective clocks are not provided directly by the SMU, they're calculated and averaged by HWiNFO64 using logged data on C states, so at the end of the day you have to trust the algorithms the author implemented on his own without access to sensitive/meaningful information on how the CPUs operate at the millisecond-level. If you set a really fast polling interval the CPU usage negates whatever benefits it can bring.

In this regard we're using dedicated hardware in my Faculty computer lab to check CPU frequencies at the millisecond level and "effective clocks" look very much the same as the actual clock speeds in systems with proper power limits, so I'm not too sure about HWiNFO64 in this particular scenario. The author should include a positive offset to compensate for the CPU usage involved in this particular monitoring scenario.


----------



## Blameless

BNSoul said:


> But effective clocks are not provided directly by the SMU, they're calculated and averaged by HWiNFO64 using logged data on C states, so at the end of the day you have to trust the algorithms the author implemented on his own without access to sensitive/meaningful information on how the CPUs operate at the millisecond-level. If you set a really fast polling interval the CPU usage negates whatever benefits it can bring.
> 
> In this regard we're using dedicated hardware in my Faculty computer lab to check CPU frequencies at the millisecond level and "effective clocks" look very much the same as the actual clock speeds in systems with proper power limits, so I'm not too sure about HWiNFO64 in this particular scenario. The author should include a positive offset to compensate for the CPU usage involved in this particular monitoring scenario.


Maybe you're not using loads or settings that would induce any clock stretching on the systems you're testing. And yes, a very high polling rate in HWiNFO is counterproductive because it will steal cycles that would otherwise be spent on more demanding loads, potentially erasing the differential you're trying to observe. As for HWiNFO including an offset to compensate for this, I don't know how practical that would be, it would still have to guess at it's own effects on the system relative to what the cycles would otherwise be used for.

All I know is that, in my experience, it's fairly easy to induce a major differential (well over 100MHz in some cases) between core and effective (as reported by HWiNFO) clocks, at sufficient load, and that actual performance (revealed by benching anything capable of inducing the differential) corresponds closely to reported effective clock. This differential is visible at even very long polling intervals (where the overhead of HWiNFO is negligible), as the requested multiplier used for calculating the standard/instant clock, and the actual effective clocks, will be nearly invariant...there is little to be averaged out or missed.

HWiNFO's effective clocks may not be able to give you the detail you are looking for, but that doesn't mean it lacks utility. It saves me tons of time, because instead of having to actually compare benches at different LLC levels, I can just see if there is a reported differential between core and effective clock in the single most demanding test I have.

For example, the default LLC setting on my ASRock B550 Phantom Gaming ITX/ax is "5", which is _a lot_ of droop. It's so much droop in fact that if I run y-cruncher, or XMRig, or Prime95, or certain BOINC workloads, I can lose several percent in performance. If all I was able to see is the CPU clock reported by the SMU, I might never even know I was leaving performance on the table. But seeing that effective clock fall lets me know the level of vdroop is excessive and allows me to correct it (by changing that five to a three, or if I'm running sufficiently high power limits, a two). I've gotten in the habit of using as much droop as I can, before effective clocks start to lag behind, as this is almost always what performs best where performance matters.


----------



## nyanoverlord

Just installed 5800X3D in NR200, with be quiet! DARK ROCK TF 2. Temps in Cinebench R23 are shooting up to 90 in a dozen seconds, stays there for the whole duration with clocks settling in @ around 4.1.

Tried -30 CO, now its getting to the same 90 degrees in a couple of minutes, but the clocks are steady 4.285-4.3 (at least based on HWinfo's effective clocks).

I assume that is an expected behavior based on this thread, since TF 2 is not exactly top performer? I don't mind tinkering with this CPU to reach some lower temps, is that even possible? Never had an AMD cpu before, this all thing is very new to me; any longreads that I should check? Should I follow the TLDR recommendations from the OP?


----------



## Petrarca

nyanoverlord said:


> Just installed 5800X3D in NR200, with be quiet! DARK ROCK TF 2. Temps in Cinebench R23 are shooting up to 90 in a dozen seconds, stays there for the whole duration with clocks settling it @ around 4.1.
> 
> Tried -30 CO, now its getting to the same 90 degrees in a couple of minutes, but the clocks are steady 4.285-4.3 (at least based on HWinfo's effective clocks).
> 
> I assume that is an expected behavior based on this thread, since TF 2 is not exactly top performer? I don't mind tinkering with this CPU to reach some lower temps, is that even possible? Never had an AMD cpu before, this all thing is very new to me; any longreads that I should check? Should I follow the TLDR recommendations from the OP?


5800x was already hot. X3D, sorry for my bad english "горячий шо п*здец". Undervold if bios allows it, limit tdp. Try to kepp it 80 or lower, after 80 cpu will start drop boost clock.


----------



## Fight Game

you know what's strange? I feel like I know a lot more about tuning a pc than I really need to, or sometimes, even should know, since it often gets me in trouble. pushing the limits. but then I come here and wish I knew half of what some of yall are talking about. haha. must. have. more. mhz'ssss


----------



## nyanoverlord

nyanoverlord said:


> Just installed 5800X3D in NR200, with be quiet! DARK ROCK TF 2. Temps in Cinebench R23 are shooting up to 90 in a dozen seconds, stays there for the whole duration with clocks settling in @ around 4.1.
> 
> Tried -30 CO, now its getting to the same 90 degrees in a couple of minutes, but the clocks are steady 4.285-4.3 (at least based on HWinfo's effective clocks).
> 
> I assume that is an expected behavior based on this thread, since TF 2 is not exactly top performer? I don't mind tinkering with this CPU to reach some lower temps, is that even possible? Never had an AMD cpu before, this all thing is very new to me; any longreads that I should check? Should I follow the TLDR recommendations from the OP?


Managed to get the temps down by setting -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 120 85 120 0 in PBO2 Tuner, only 83C after CB R23 run, while scoring 14600. Obviously the stability tests are in the works, but so far so good.


----------



## BNSoul

Petrarca said:


> After trying any possible PBO2 setup. I was reaching around 14700 in cb23(bad ram probably) and 82c during test.
> Now I tryed msi combo strike lvl3 and -0.1 voltage offset. Voila mostly 1500 cb23 and 78c during test. Magic? I don't know.
> 
> b450 carbon agesa 1.2.0.7


Can you post screenshot of HWINFO64 running on the side while r23 displays the score so we can assess effective core speed? If there's clock stretching going on then the offset is not worth it.


----------



## cbr600

I understand this is 3200 memory and 3600 could be better but if I use my motherboards 3600 16-16-16 vs 3200 14-14-14 I score the same in C23. Would a memory expert look at this and see if there is anything I could change that would give me any uplift?


----------



## BNSoul

cbr600 said:


> I understand this is 3200 memory and 3600 could be better but if I use my motherboards 3600 16-16-16 vs 3200 14-14-14 I score the same in C23. Would a memory expert look at this and see if there is anything I could change that would give me any uplift?


Cinebench doesn't care all that much about memory timings, if you want an easy uplift just turn off hw prefetchers in BIOS, after running CB enable them back.


----------



## Blameless

cbr600 said:


> I understand this is 3200 memory and 3600 could be better but if I use my motherboards 3600 16-16-16 vs 3200 14-14-14 I score the same in C23. Would a memory expert look at this and see if there is anything I could change that would give me any uplift?
> 
> View attachment 2569777


tRC, tFAW, tRTP (and tWR as an extension of that), and tRFC can all likely get a lot tighter. Higher memory and FCLK/UCLK would also be better for memory performance, even if you need to loosen primary timings a bit, which you may not have to do, since you've got a lot of voltage headroom.

Cinebench isn't going to care much, so if you're just chasing Cinebench scores, don't fuss over memory. If you do care about memory performance, I recommend finding a more representative benchmark.


----------



## Taraquin

Blameless said:


> tRC, tFAW, tRTP (and tWR as an extension of that), and tRFC can all likely get a lot tighter. Higher memory and FCLK/UCLK would also be better for memory performance, even if you need to loosen primary timings a bit, which you may not have to do, since you've got a lot of voltage headroom.
> 
> Cinebench isn't going to care much, so if you're just chasing Cinebench scores, don't fuss over memory. If you do care about memory performance, I recommend finding a more representative benchmark.


Ryzen dram calc test scales good with ram tuning, some games scale good aswell. I usually recommend SOTTR, but there is very limited scaling on 5800X3D in that game.


----------



## desilent

Alright guy I also purchased the 5800x3d together with an Arctic Liquid Freezer ii 360mm AIO. Mounted the AIO as instructed with the offset mount. Instantly hitting 90c in cinebench r23 and around 70-80c in games. Sometimes peaking higher.
Checked my average voltages in HwInfo and it's 1.288v. All this on a C8DH motherboard. This seems extremely excessive as per default voltage does it not? Also why the **** is my 360mm literally cold, it feels as if theres no contact from IHS to the cold plate at all. I can't jam the thumb screws any tighter tho.
What am I missing here, any suggestions?


----------



## AXi0M

desilent said:


> Alright guy I also purchased the 5800x3d together with an Arctic Liquid Freezer ii 360mm AIO. Mounted the AIO as instructed with the offset mount. Instantly hitting 90c in cinebench r23 and around 70-80c in games. Sometimes peaking higher.
> Checked my average voltages in HwInfo and it's 1.288v. All this on a C8DH motherboard. This seems extremely excessive as per default voltage does it not? Also why the **** is my 360mm literally cold, it feels as if theres no contact from IHS to the cold plate at all. I can't jam the thumb screws any tighter tho.
> What am I missing here, any suggestions?


Be sure to manually spread the paste. small beads in the middle sometimes don't cover the whole CCD on ryzen, they can work but not as repeatable as just spreading it - Source: The 8 empty tubes of thermal paste from my experiments.


----------



## desilent

AXi0M said:


> Be sure to manually spread the paste. small beads in the middle sometimes don't cover the whole CCD on ryzen, they can work but not as repeatable as just spreading it - Source: The 8 empty tubes of thermal paste from my experiments.


Thanks, I reseated once. First time I applied a small dot in the middle as you said. Second time I applied an x-pattern. Maybe 3rd times a charm, gotta order new paste tho.


----------



## lestatdk

AXi0M said:


> Be sure to manually spread the paste. small beads in the middle sometimes don't cover the whole CCD on ryzen, they can work but not as repeatable as just spreading it - Source: The 8 empty tubes of thermal paste from my experiments.


Agree, this is how I do it as well. Never had problems


----------



## CCoR

lunatik said:


> I don't know how to measure a difference, but it has always caused latency/packet loss issues for me in multi core games (warzone).
> Might be related to network adapter too tho, RSS maybe? Anyway with c states off, they are completely gone.


What did you do exactly to help with warzone?


----------



## gffermari

desilent said:


> Alright guy I also purchased the 5800x3d together with an Arctic Liquid Freezer ii 360mm AIO. Mounted the AIO as instructed with the offset mount. Instantly hitting 90c in cinebench r23 and around 70-80c in games. Sometimes peaking higher.
> Checked my average voltages in HwInfo and it's 1.288v. All this on a C8DH motherboard. This seems extremely excessive as per default voltage does it not? Also why the **** is my 360mm literally cold, it feels as if theres no contact from IHS to the cold plate at all. I can't jam the thumb screws any tighter tho.
> What am I missing here, any suggestions?


That’s normal behaviour of a 5800X3D at stock voltages.
The cpu temperature does not lower when you have a better, than normal, cpu cooler. I have 3 240 rads and have similar temps at stock.

Use the pbo2 tuner, set -25 to all cores and try again.


----------



## AXi0M

gffermari said:


> That’s normal behaviour of a 5800X3D at stock voltages.
> The cpu temperature does not lower when you have a better, than normal, cpu cooler. I have 3 240 rads and have similar temps at stock.
> 
> Use the pbo2 tuner, set -25 to all cores and try again.


It is most definitely not normal to have those high temps. With a single 280 AIO i get ~75c at load and 40-50c in games.


----------



## lestatdk

Stock I get 81 or so with a 360m AIO. With -30 on all cores I get around 71


----------



## gffermari

I have these high temps on stock voltages and unlimited power usage.
If I limit the power usage, then yes the temps are better but still high. Only when I reduce the voltages I see normal temps.


----------



## robolee

Mugen 5 (Push Pull with Arctic P12) Being using this cooler since Ryzen 1600 era with Fan swapped for 5800X3D
I am also using Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut as my Thermal Paste
Ambient Temp = 99% of the time 35 degree but if it rain 26 to 28 degree but that is a big rare (Yes i live in a country that only have 1 season which is SUMMER)
Stock = Benchmark easily hit 90°C while gaming in 80°C range
-30 = Benchmark 80°C and Gaming also 80°C hitting all core 4450

Now i am not sure if i were to replace my cooler with Deepcool AS500 Plus, were my temp be lower?


----------



## user55101

Hello,

Any advice to tightent the secondary and tertiary timing ?

I am looking into something I can run daily 

5800x3D
Asus B550-A gaming
2*16GB dual rank Samsung B-die
VDIMM : currently 1.42
this is stable if I can I would like my primary to be cl14


----------



## AXi0M

user55101 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Any advice to tightent the secondary and tertiary timing ?
> 
> I am looking into something I can run daily
> 
> 5800x3D
> Asus B550-A gaming
> 2*16GB dual rank Samsung B-die
> VDIMM : currently 1.42
> this is stable if I can I would like my primary to be cl14
> View attachment 2570167


Could run tRAS as low as 23 and tRC 38 with your current tRTP and tRCD. tRRDL 4, RDRDSC & DD 4, WRWRSC & DD 6. But might need 1.5v for those to be stable


----------



## BNSoul

I installed the new AMD chipset drivers released yesterday and did run R20 and R23 to see what's up. Turns out I've hit a hard bottleneck with regard to the power limits settings (114, 75, 115, -30 all-core) and my results are exactly the same as previous ones down to the last digit. At least it serves to show there's no performance regression or any PBO2 Tuner related bug.

Stock BCLK: 100.0 MHz 

R20, 587 Single, 5985 Multi









And R23, hitting 1508 Single, 15451 multi once more with EDC keeping them digits from going up.


----------



## Henry Owens

Get 5800x3D and sell my 5900x? Used for gaming and this would extend the life of pc being the last upgrade path? Would I more likely be able to hit flick 2000 dram 4000 locked?


----------



## robolee

For the love of god, My 5800X3D just wouldn't boost more than 4450 even on a single core boost test. Not sure if it's my cooler (Mugen 5) being the problem. Guess i have to wait till next month to test with my new cooler either Deepcool AK620 or AS500 Plus.


----------



## AXi0M

Henry Owens said:


> Get 5800x3D and sell my 5900x? Used for gaming and this would extend the life of pc being the last upgrade path? Would I more likely be able to hit flick 2000 dram 4000 locked?


Not really "more likely" to hit 2000fclk its all up to silicon lottery. and weather or not it's a worth while upgrade is up to you and your money . im sure you've seen enough benchmarks to make an informed decision


----------



## BNSoul

robolee said:


> For the love of god, My 5800X3D just wouldn't boost more than 4450 even on a single core boost test. Not sure if it's my cooler (Mugen 5) being the problem. Guess i have to wait till next month to test with my new cooler either Deepcool AK620 or AS500 Plus.


What board and AGESA?


----------



## robolee

BNSoul said:


> What board and AGESA?


B450M Mortar Max
AGESA 1206 and 1207 same issue


----------



## BNSoul

robolee said:


> B450M Mortar Max
> AGESA 1206 and 1207 same issue


Have you tried monitoring the CPU in HWiNFO64 "Zen snapshot mode" while running @ManniX-ITA boost tester?

How about Y-Cruncher FFT workload on 3 different cores?


----------



## BNSoul

user55101 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Any advice to tightent the secondary and tertiary timing ?
> 
> I am looking into something I can run daily
> 
> 5800x3D
> Asus B550-A gaming
> 2*16GB dual rank Samsung B-die
> VDIMM : currently 1.42
> this is stable if I can I would like my primary to be cl14
> View attachment 2570167


Can't you tune down that v-soc and vddp voltages??


----------



## robolee

BNSoul said:


> Have you tried monitoring the CPU in HWiNFO64 "Zen snapshot mode" while running @ManniX-ITA boost tester?


Yep i have enable Zen snapshot mode and using the boost tester
Do i need to enable CPPC Preferred Cores? I heard disable it make single boost suffer


----------



## BNSoul

robolee said:


> Yep i have enable Zen snapshot mode and using the boost tester
> Do i need to enable CPPC Preferred Cores? I heard disable it make single boost suffer


No, preferred cores don't hurt anything, but it's better to leave that setting off in the case of the 5800X3D. 

Did you clear CMOS before installing the CPU and/or updating BIOS? Did you perform a clear install of Windows? Make sure that PBO2 Tuner isn't running when installing AMD chipset drivers.


----------



## robolee

BNSoul said:


> No, preferred cores don't hurt anything, but it's better to leave that setting off in the case of the 5800X3D.
> 
> Did you clear CMOS before installing the CPU and/or updating BIOS? Did you perform a clear install of Windows? Make sure that PBO2 Tuner isn't running when installing AMD chipset drivers.


Ya i did a clean install of window when i swap my 2600 to 5800X3D
Yep i did a clear bios before i upgrade or downgrade between 1206 and 1207 for testing
PBO2Tuner wasn't running when updating AMD chipset driver (It only run once every bootup), Checked task manager and was sure PBO2Tuner are not running once it apply the setting on every bootup
As you can see under MAX no way near 4500mhz at all after i ran booster tester.


----------



## BNSoul

robolee said:


> Ya i did a clean install of window when i swap my 2600 to 5800X3D
> Yep i did a clear bios before i upgrade or downgrade between 1206 and 1207 for testing
> PBO2Tuner wasn't running when updating AMD chipset driver (It only run once every bootup), Checked task manager and was sure PBO2Tuner are not running once it apply the setting on every bootup
> As you can see under MAX no way near 4500mhz at all after i ran booster tester.


No 5800X3D sample leaves the factory like that, it sure is a motherboard issue, a BIOS issue or both. Did you contact the motherboard manufacturer?


----------



## robolee

BNSoul said:


> No 5800X3D sample leaves the factory like that, it sure is a motherboard issue, a BIOS issue or both. Did you contact the motherboard manufacturer?


or would be temperature issue? I mean i am idling at 40 and 80 max during all core heavy load


----------



## BNSoul

robolee said:


> or would be temperature issue? I mean i am idling at 40 and 80 max during all core heavy load


Even at 70ºC Mannix should boost any core, but for sure you can try an improve that cooling, I'm currently idling at 25-26ºC


----------



## robolee

BNSoul said:


> Even at 70ºC Mannix should boost any core, but for sure you can try an improve that cooling, I'm currently idling at 25-26ºC


Ambient Temp is 35 degree. My country only has summer as season and air con is not an option for my household :/


----------



## BNSoul

robolee said:


> Ambient Temp is 35 degree. My country only has summer as season and air con is not an option for my household :/


I understand now, sorry if I'm being a bit blunt here but your 5800X3D is going to throttle 75% of the time and you're not going to fully leverage it, it's too hot to boost, it's too hot to function properly in any given multi-core load, with the added heat from the GPU it's going to get even worse... in your situation a 5600X would be the best option. I hope you can still return it. Good luck mate 👍


----------



## robolee

BNSoul said:


> I understand now, sorry if I'm being a bit blunt here but your 5800X3D is going to throttle 75% of the time and you're not going to fully leverage it, it's too hot to boost, it's too hot to function properly in any given multi-core load, with the added heat from the GPU it's going to get even worse... in your situation a 5600X would be the best option. I hope you can still return it. Good luck mate 👍


My country do not have return feature :/


----------



## Globespy

I don't know how any of you are able to get these boost clocks on their 5800X3D.
Not matter what I try (LLC changes, lowered SOC vCore etc etc), I cannot get any core (including in Core Effective Clocks) to go above 4,450Mhz in either multi or single core in C23?
I've got no issues with -30 all cores, and have tried multiple combinations of PPT, TDC, EDC values without any change whatsoever in the core clocks?

Aorus X570 Master (Rev 1.2) with BIOS 1.2.0.7 BIOS version F36e

This run was with all LLC's on 'Auto' and both Prefetch on Auto
Appreciate any input/help to get my cores to boost above 4,450Mhz


----------



## Globespy

How can you save the PPT, TDC and EDC settings in PBO2 Tuner on startup like we do with the CO settings?
Can anyone advise?
Thanks!


----------



## robolee

Globespy said:


> I don't know how any of you are able to get these boost clocks on their 5800X3D.
> Not matter what I try (LLC changes, lowered SOC vCore etc etc), I cannot get any core (including in Core Effective Clocks) to go above 4,450Mhz in either multi or single core in C23?
> I've got no issues with -30 all cores, and have tried multiple combinations of PPT, TDC, EDC values without any change whatsoever in the core clocks?
> 
> Aorus X570 Master (Rev 1.2) with BIOS 1.2.0.7 BIOS version F36e
> 
> This run was with all LLC's on 'Auto' and both Prefetch on Auto
> Appreciate any input/help to get my cores to boost above 4,450Mhz


Look like you are having the same issue like me, Your idling and max temp is almost the same as me.


----------



## robolee

Globespy said:


> How can you save the PPT, TDC and EDC settings in PBO2 Tuner on startup like we do with the CO settings?
> Can anyone advise?
> Thanks!


-30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 142 95 140 4550 <-Basically after the CO it's PPT TDC EDC FMAX

More Info here - CoreCycler - tool for testing Curve Optimizer settings


----------



## SBuck

robolee said:


> For the love of god, My 5800X3D just wouldn't boost more than 4450 even on a single core boost test. Not sure if it's my cooler (Mugen 5) being the problem. Guess i have to wait till next month to test with my new cooler either Deepcool AK620 or AS500 Plus.


I thought my 5800x3d was like this too. Tried allot of things. It ended up being an open source rgb controller software was limmiting the processor to 4450ish. Once I disabled the software even without rebooting it will boost to 4540ish on most cores..


----------



## robolee

SBuck said:


> I thought my 5800x3d was like this too. Tried allot of things. It ended up being an open source rgb controller software was limmiting the processor to 4450ish. Once I disabled the software even without rebooting it will boost to 4540ish on most cores..


I do not have any RGB controller or software but the closest thing will be razer synapse (and i only install the mouse feature and nothing else) but i will find some time to shut down that software and test it when i am free.


----------



## th3illusiveman

i think these will really only boost to that frequency on 1core/2thread workloads and then its down to 4.45 and lower as the rest of the cores saturate... I highly doubt you will see 4.55 during any games or any continuous workload - it seems to be a number that can only be reproduced synthetically for testing rather then something that will bring tangible performance benefits in any real usecase. You will see near 0% difference in games from the frequency bump (see 5700x vs 5800x).

Unless you're trying to bench something for some contest, it isnt worth the time and certainly not worth returning the processor over - the 64MB of extra cache is what gives you the generational jump in performance vs non-3D Zen3 CPUs not some 100mhz frequency bump.


----------



## Globespy

th3illusiveman said:


> i think these will really only boost to that frequency on 1core/2thread workloads and then its down to 4.45 and lower as the rest of the cores saturate... I highly doubt you will see 4.55 during any games or any continuous workload - it seems to be a number that can only be reproduced synthetically for testing rather then something that will bring tangible performance benefits in any real usecase. You will see near 0% difference in games from the frequency bump (see 5700x vs 5800x).
> 
> Unless you're trying to bench something for some contest, it isnt worth the time and certainly not worth returning the processor over - the 64MB of extra cache is what gives you the generational jump in performance vs non-3D Zen3 CPUs not some 100mhz frequency bump.


This is the absolute best answer that 99% of people reading this should digest, then follow.
Unless anyone can actually prove that in any AAA+ game, they maintain these clocks across all cores being used for that game AND show the FPS benefits, I would hazard a good guess that if you can keep your average temps low using the PBO2 Tuner that runs automatically on launch you can have an all-core boost of 4.45Ghz or somewhere very close to that.
The point? You won't be able to tell the difference in gaming, especially if you game at 1440p and above with a current gen 3080/3080ti level GPU.
This chips gaming strength is all in the 96MB of L3 3D V-Cache.

Thank you!


----------



## loki_toki

why everyone here suggests to disable cppc preferred cores? it doesn't make any sense to me, is it cause windows will gonna **** up with that setting enabled?


----------



## lestatdk

loki_toki said:


> why everyone here suggests to disable cppc preferred cores? it doesn't make any sense to me, is it cause windows will gonna **** up with that setting enabled?


When all cores can boost to 4550 only, there's really no need to prefer any cores over the others.


----------



## Luggage

robolee said:


> I do not have any RGB controller or software but the closest thing will be razer synapse (and i only install the mouse feature and nothing else) but i will find some time to shut down that software and test it when i am free.


Yea try turning it off.









5600x all core overclock help


Shouldn't be the case... but try what happens at -10, 0, +10, +20, +30 with Core 1. In theory the boost clock should go below 4820 MHz. The positive offset is probably good but most likely a +0.012 or +0.025 will work better. PPT 150 TDC 125 EDC 140 Thermal Throttle Auto Scalar 2x Override...




www.overclock.net


----------



## BNSoul

loki_toki said:


> why everyone here suggests to disable cppc preferred cores? it doesn't make any sense to me, is it cause windows will gonna **** up with that setting enabled?


Edit: look for Mannix' explanation a couple of posts below 

-----
For SC workloads that you don't know how to manually assign to your best cores, enabling preferred cores would be (very much so) slightly beneficial as in there's not a tangible speed difference between the different cores (0,0001%). What you can perceive is that best cores use less voltage to keep increased clocks for longer.


----------



## loki_toki

BNSoul said:


> Because if you have that setting enabled the operating system usually assigns multiple tasks to the best cores instead of spreading the workload across all available cores. Thus, you end up with some hogged cores bottlenecking the rest, nowadays multi-core tests see increased performance with CPPC preferred cores disabled as all cores are equally loaded.
> 
> On the other hand, for SC workloads that you don't know how to manually assign to your best cores, enabling preferred cores would be (very much so) slightly beneficial as in there's not a tangible speed difference between the different cores (0,0001%). What you can perceive is that best cores use less voltage to keep increased clocks for longer.


ah, thank you, very well explained!
also another question, do you suggest to turn off smt for gaming? saw some benchmarks here and looks like smt off is the way to go..


----------



## BNSoul

loki_toki said:


> ah, thank you, very well explained!
> also another question, do you suggest to turn off smt for gaming? saw some benchmarks here and looks like smt off is the way to go..


Depends on the game and CPU, cores do communicate with each other and in non-monolithic architectures this leads to a latency penalty (Zen 2), coupled with an average SC performance this usually leads to cores actually running better when not having to deal with logical threads on top of the actual physical thread. But some games will prefer the raw power of 16 threads over increased latency, on the other hand memory sensitive games like Spider-Man remastered would prefer the reduced latency. 

Now, in the case of the 5800X3D, the Single Core and memory subsystem performance are so good that it can perfectly deal with all available threads, you're actually losing performance if you disable too many logical threads. The same can be said for Intel 12XXX with DDR5 (the 12900K with DDR5 can match and in some cases surpass a 5800X3D, but the latter beats the Intel CPU more often than not.

You'd wonder why I consider the 5800X3D having the best single core performance by far among all Zen 3 CPUs and also Intel 12XXX, despite what Cinebench and other scripted, extremely sequential benchmarks show. It's easy to understand, when it comes to real world performance the CPU is flooded with two-way requests to and from the system RAM controller as well as the GPU via the PCIe interface, in most games this causes cores to idle (wait) until the data they're looking for can be fetched, so even if running at 5GHz the workflow is constantly interrupted. In the case of the 5800X3D and the fastest DDR5 platforms the CPU cores can find the data almost immediately if not already available on L3, thus making the cores flatline running with minimal interruptions/idling. This is what makes the 5800X3D the most powerful single core performer in real-world scenarios (like gaming), so even at 4450 they're 8 stronger cores than the 16 cores of a 5GHz 5950X. 

Yeah Cinebench fits extremely small sets of data in cache and runs at full speed without taking advantage of modern memory subsystems, so the CPU with a faster clock and more cores will always win. On Linux though L3 cache is widely used in productivity apps so you'll see there the 5800X3D destroying anything else be it 3D renders, video encoder, editing, physics simulations and whatnot. Unfortunately, Windows is still stuck in stone age.


----------



## robolee

Luggage said:


> Yea try turning it off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5600x all core overclock help
> 
> 
> Shouldn't be the case... but try what happens at -10, 0, +10, +20, +30 with Core 1. In theory the boost clock should go below 4820 MHz. The positive offset is probably good but most likely a +0.012 or +0.025 will work better. PPT 150 TDC 125 EDC 140 Thermal Throttle Auto Scalar 2x Override...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Yep turned that razer off, did the booster test and see it boosted up to 4500 now but in actual situtation like other say you will never see it boost up to 4500 or 4550. Well at least i know razer bloatware is still a bloatware, Once i sync it once with my mouse i can just turn it off for good


----------



## ManniX-ITA

robolee said:


> Yep turned that razer off, did the booster test and see it boosted up to 4500 now but in actual situtation like other say you will never see it boost up to 4500 or 4550. Well at least i know razer bloatware is still a bloatware, Once i sync it once with my mouse i can just turn it off for good


Total lack of boosting is almost always a software issue.
Very often RGB control software, motherboard's bloatware (ASUS Armoury Crate, MSI Dragon, Gigabyte, etc) and others will leave a device driver loaded even when uninstalled. 
Better to run Sysinternals Autoruns and double check there are no leftovers.



loki_toki said:


> also another question, do you suggest to turn off smt for gaming? saw some benchmarks here and looks like smt off is the way to go..


It's still experimental and sometimes doesn't work really well but you can give a try with CPUDoc:









GitHub - mann1x/CPUDoc


Contribute to mann1x/CPUDoc development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com





You can test with 7-zip benchmark; running it with max physical thread should give you a 5-7% speed improvement.

In general is not a good thing to disable SMT.
Only a few games will benefit from it. Many have the option or defaulting to use only the first thread anyway.
CPUDoc is a software solution, in theory if I can make it work really well is the best of both worlds.



BNSoul said:


> Because if you have that setting enabled the operating system usually assigns multiple tasks to the best cores instead of spreading the workload across all available cores. Thus, you end up with some hogged cores bottlenecking the rest, nowadays multi-core tests see increased performance with CPPC preferred cores disabled as all cores are equally loaded.


It's not like this. Without Preferred Cores the only difference is the Windows Scheduler will use a linear priority, defining Core 0 as the best and the rest in descending order.
More an issue with the Scheduler managing Core 0 access priority from other Cores (lots of stuff must be run there, like legacy IRQ etc, cause it's where the kernel is loaded), flaky CPPC implementation and a bad habit from AMD in doing sloppy testing and serialization.
You can see the scheduler priorities with BenchMaestro looking inside the logs.



lestatdk said:


> When all cores can boost to 4550 only, there's really no need to prefer any cores over the others.


There is a very good reason to maximize boosting through PBO and CO, even if the cores doesn't have different capabilities.
Only 100 MHz could look like peanuts at first glance but it's not.

There are 4 main instructions set; legacy, SSE, AVX, AVX2.
These are a set of instructions, not just one command.
For some of these the performances are mostly and sometimes only tied to clock speed.
Less they can be parallelized and less (or at all) the caching and branch prediction will help.
They will execute and complete in a predefined number of ticks which are tied to the clock speed.

Don't be fooled by the max boost effective clock from BoostTester.
That's only to check if you can match the maximum clock frequency you expect to a achieve from your settings.
It's not the sustained clock speed the cpu can keep while running most of real workloads.

If you want to deep dive in the real boosting capabilities of your CPU you need to do specific and targeted testing.
Eg. use CoreCycler; set one specific FFT size, only one run, check the max clock and take note of the time to complete.
OCCT, use Steady and check the sustained clock.
y-cruncher, run a 500m benchmark on single core, record the clock and the time to complete.

What you usually fail to see is the big gap between running SSE/AVX/AVX2 with boosting and without.
Those 100 MHz can easily become a delta of 200-300 MHz, especially with CO tuning on top of PBO Boosting.
You can always benefit from a good boosting setup, even on the 5800X3D where most of the performances are coming from the huge L3 cache.

I'll make a practical example cause I'm setting up my Home server/NAS with a 5600G.
With PBO defaults without boost clock and no CO the y-cruncher N32 test runs at below 4.0 GHz.
PBO +175 MHz and CO gives me an average of 4.3 GHz with frequent boosting to 4.45 GHz.
It's an healthy 10% improvement that can probably help a lot in gaming to avoid frame drops 

Nowadays, thanks for compilers optimization, almost every binary is a mix of SSE/AVX/AVX2. Even the simplest one.
If you can properly boost there's a big advantage in general performances.
Otherwise the mix, even for a couple of AVX2 instructions here and there, can easily bring down the clocks.


----------



## BNSoul

ManniX-ITA said:


> Epic post


Thanks for your detailed and helpful post, along with your useful tools @ManniX-ITA 🙏

Also great clarification on the CPPC preferred cores settings, I've always seen double usage on my best cores with the setting enabled, especially on core #0 which happens to be my best core... but I just have to completely believe you mate, not sure if it has anything to do with W11 scheduler and this coincidence. Why do we have CPPC preferred cores disabled as a suggested setting in the opening post then?

All the best! 😁


----------



## ManniX-ITA

BNSoul said:


> Thanks for your detailed and helpful post, along with your useful tools @ManniX-ITA


You're welcome 



BNSoul said:


> Also great clarification on the CPPC preferred cores settings, I've always seen double usage on my best cores with the setting enabled, especially on core #0 which happens to be my best core... but I just have to completely believe you mate, not sure if it has anything to do with W11 scheduler and this coincidence. Why do we have CPPC preferred cores disabled as a suggested setting in the opening post then?


Unfortunately it's sometimes better to disable it but it shouldn't...
The Windows Scheduler is a nasty black box and the CPPC tags it's just one factor of the decision making process on where to schedule a process, which priority is given, if and where it's moved when the load changes.
For sure not always everything works as expected, especially with Windows 11 which is bringing in a lot of new stuff under the hood.
It's not only about the specific CPU model, the 5800X3D, but also which BIOS/AGESA is being used.
There's no simple answer that works best for everyone.
But if you have the choice, it's better to keep it enabled.


----------



## BNSoul

@ManniX-ITA mate when I set HWiNFO64 to "Zen Snapshot mode" to check the actual core speed logged by the CPU I usually get at least 3 cores boosting to the limit, this time it was 4, if I use my day-to-day CO they all hit 4550 easily but for testing purpose I inflict cores the "pain" of -30 counts. This is with "CPPC Preferred cores" Disabled, do you think there's meaningful differences between the actual speeds of the cores to justify enabling said setting? I've been reading everywhere and no one is really sure about what the setting does in W11, there's not a single benchmark...

test I just did (again, using Zen snapshot mode to see actual speed and avoid all cores showing generic 4550)


----------



## ManniX-ITA

BNSoul said:


> This is with "CPPC Preferred cores" Disabled, do you think there's meaningful differences between the actual speeds of the cores to justify enabling said setting?


Download BenchMaestro, it's in my signature.

Check the CPPC Perf.
It should list the cores on a priority list based on the CPPC tags with Preferred cores enabled while linear from 0 to 7 without.

Run the CPUMINER SSE4.2 benchmark but select Threads Custom, select 1-2-4-6t.
Expand the details and take a screenshot (right top, the red camera icon).
Do it with both Preferred cores enabled and disabled.
Compare the scores and check in details the effective clocks during the tests.
If Preferred cores is working (and there's effectively a perf difference between the cores) you'll see better scores and higher clocks with it with a decreasing delta going up to 6 threads.
If the scores and the clocks are almost the same there's no need to enable it.


----------



## user55101

AXi0M said:


> Could run tRAS as low as 23 and tRC 38 with your current tRTP and tRCD. tRRDL 4, RDRDSC & DD 4, WRWRSC & DD 6. But might need 1.5v for those to be stable


thank you this is what I achieved so far... now at 1.5 volt but tune down SOC. turn out it was way to high for no reason 
I maybe can get TRFC down a little, TCWL to 15 and trcd to 14

How can I change the number of cycle from TM5 i'm stock at 3 default... try to change the log but nothing changed


----------



## Globespy

BNSoul said:


> I installed the new AMD chipset drivers released yesterday and did run R20 and R23 to see what's up. Turns out I've hit a hard bottleneck with regard to the power limits settings (114, 75, 115, -30 all-core) and my results are exactly the same as previous ones down to the last digit. At least it serves to show there's no performance regression or any PBO2 Tuner related bug.
> 
> Stock BCLK: 100.0 MHz
> 
> R20, 587 Single, 5985 Multi
> View attachment 2570272
> 
> 
> And R23, hitting 1508 Single, 15451 multi once more with EDC keeping them digits from going up.
> View attachment 2570273


[/QUOTE]
Are you running a custom water loop? Those temps are amazingly low for those values.
And your core voltages are so much lower under full load by a full .1, silicon lottery?


----------



## AXi0M

user55101 said:


> thank you this is what I achieved so far... now at 1.5 volt but tune down SOC. turn out it was way to high for no reason
> I maybe can get TRFC down a little, TCWL to 15 and trcd to 14
> 
> How can I change the number of cycle from TM5 i'm stock at 3 default... try to change the log but nothing changed


That looks good , just tCL and tRFC _could_ go lower but not by any amount that you'd notice outside of benches.


----------



## BNSoul

duplicate, pls remove.


----------



## BNSoul

Globespy said:


> Are you running a custom water loop? Those temps are amazingly low for those values.
> And your core voltages are so much lower under full load by a full .1, silicon lottery?


Yeah among other things I also easily get the best score in OCCT database single thread ranking (at 100.0 MHz BCLK, no overclocking and no V-Core offset, LLC on auto) with a lower voltage than the previous top scoring 5800X3D, above average scores due to quality cores + lower voltage + lukewarm silicon = gold/platinum samples.




















Totally silicon lottery and pbo2 tuner magic, I cheated a bit to get one of the best samples (someone knows other someone who reviews CPUs for an outlet and they were receiving highly binned 5800X3D's for review, and I made sure to snag one of those... don't kill me) I mean, AMD made sure no reviewer would receive 5800X3D silicon that couldn't do 1900 FCLK or would be among the top space heaters under heavy load. Also, I'm running a custom air cooling solution that it's relatively cheap and simple yet amazingly effective to keep the CPU bathed in cool air at all times in the right spots. It's based on air pressures and air flow.


----------



## robolee

No wonder your 5800X3D are able to boost so high...


----------



## BNSoul

robolee said:


> No wonder your 5800X3D are able to boost so high...


yep, if you can... try your best to get one of the CPUs that AMD send to BIG, charismatic and influential reviewers / outlets, at the very least they're going to get a gold sample or a platinum one. In my case I'm just lucky that someone knows this other someone. Also, I'm reading about the new 7600X / 7700X and they seem to not be much better if at all than the 5800X3D in gaming scenarios going by the benchmarks / slides AMD presented at their event, are they going to increase the price of the Zen 3 3D or maybe start phasing it out? hmm...


----------



## BHS1975

I actually get better scores with no clock stretching and lower temps and voltages running mine with LLC 3 with -30 CO and -0.075 offset. I tried auto LLC and had to bump up to -0.05 offset to avoid stretching and had higher max vcore.


----------



## BNSoul

BHS1975 said:


> I actually get better scores with no clock stretching and lower temps and voltages running mine with LLC 3 with -30 CO and -0.075 offset. I tried auto LLC and had to bump up to -0.05 offset to avoid stretching and had higher max vcore.


100% true mate, a good CPU sample + some V-core offset is a dream, I can't wait until I can try that on my CPU. We all know we're talking margin of error differences but still it's great to have your hardware yielding 100% performance with reduced heat / power, enjoy it 
In my case seeing those perfect effective clocks rock solid at 4450 in Cinebench with above average scores and no v-core offset at all / not having to tell the motherboard to remove v-drops either by bumping LLC is just fantastic.

To be honest by altering the stock V-core of the CPU and artificially reducing the healthy V-drops of the chip by manually bumping the default load line calibration is wearing off the CPU a bit and you're putting the hardware in a benchmarking scenario that's on a different level than stock + PBO2 Tuner, it's more proper of an overclock. Thus it would be super interesting to see your 4450 MHz effective clocks, reduced voltages, etc along with both your MC and SC R23 scores of 15600+ and 1520+ as we usually see when users tweak such parameters, those of use who don't have an offset option would have a chance to assess it. Surely that screenshot just would take you a couple of mins mate ! thanks !!!!! and kid regards : )


----------



## pfinch

BHS1975 said:


> I actually get better scores with no clock stretching and lower temps and voltages running mine with LLC 3 with -30 CO and -0.075 offset. I tried auto LLC and had to bump up to -0.05 offset to avoid stretching and had higher max vcore.


LLC3 on ASUS x570?


----------



## BNSoul

pfinch said:


> LLC3 on ASUS x570?


Level 3 of load line calibration, reducing healthy V-drop from the CPU and wearing it off in order to force some performance


----------



## AXi0M

BNSoul said:


> Yeah among other things I also easily get the best score in OCCT database single thread ranking (at 100.0 MHz BCLK, no overclocking and no V-Core offset, LLC on auto) with a lower voltage than the previous top scoring 5800X3D, above average scores due to quality cores + lower voltage + lukewarm silicon = gold/platinum samples.
> 
> View attachment 2570490
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2570491
> 
> 
> Totally silicon lottery and pbo2 tuner magic, I cheated a bit to get one of the best samples (someone knows other someone who reviews CPUs for an outlet and they were receiving highly binned 5800X3D's for review, and I made sure to snag one of those... don't kill me) I mean, AMD made sure no reviewer would receive 5800X3D silicon that couldn't do 1900 FCLK or would be among the top space heaters under heavy load. Also, I'm running a custom air cooling solution that it's relatively cheap and simple yet amazingly effective to keep the CPU bathed in cool air at all times in the right spots. It's based on air pressures and air flow.


OCCT must take a while to upload, the number 2 scores in your benches are still top in my OCCT


----------



## BNSoul

AXi0M said:


> OCCT must take a while to upload, the number 2 scores in your benches are still top in my OCCT


I didn't buy a license so my scores don't get in the rankings


----------



## pfinch

BNSoul said:


> Level 3 of load line calibration, reducing healthy V-drop from the CPU and wearing it off in order to force some performance


asked for the brand because llc3 on asus is the recommend llc since years on asus boards for OC (if you use llc)


----------



## cferg10

Is memory timings and latency such a huge deal for this chip?

I ended up picking up one yesterday and while I have 3600CL 16 32GB kit, I am sort of changing the aesthetics and have another kit in my hands of 3600CL 18, will I see a noticeable change in performance by switching it out for the higher latency kit?


----------



## foook92

I really don't understand why my 5800x3d, after few days of boosting without problems at 4550, would not boost at that frequence anymore. Stops at 4450 for every type of load and in idle.
Probably some process that prevent it to boost till 4550?

P.S. Windows 11 was freshly installed when the 5800x3d arrived, so just 3 weeks ago.

P.P.S. it now boosted to 4550, maybe it's ICUE process or some other processes that runs in background to prevent this beast to boost as intended on single core. I'll do further tests later


----------



## spajdr

Hello guys,
Lately, I've been experiencing that when I watch videos on YT, the sound starts to crackle after a few minutes or I get an error on the USB port in the device manager. 
What should I change in terms of voltage? I don't have any WHEA errors.


----------



## BHS1975

pfinch said:


> LLC3 on ASUS x570?


B550-F


----------



## AXi0M

spajdr said:


> Hello guys,
> Lately, I've been experiencing that when I watch videos on YT, the sound starts to crackle after a few minutes or I get an error on the USB port in the device manager.
> What should I change in terms of voltage? I don't have any WHEA errors.
> 
> View attachment 2570554


well based on the screen shot it looks like you're running DOCP (and a very loose one) so you should try SOC 1.1v - VDDG IOD 1.05v - VDDG CCD 0.95v - VDDP 0.9v keep memory voltage at 1.4v until you try to overclock (if you choose to do so)


----------



## ManniX-ITA

spajdr said:


> What should I change in terms of voltage? I don't have any WHEA errors.


Too low, or sometimes too high, VDDG IOD.
In your case also VSOC lower than VDDG.
Raise VSOC to 1.1V.



foook92 said:


> maybe it's ICUE process


Yes. Avoid it if possible.


----------



## thesebastian

I just got a 5800X3D!

I think my CPU voltage offset (previous configured on +50mv for 3700X) is gone from the BIOS setup so I can't see what's the current value.
Power deviation is on 110% average on Prime 95 Small FTTs (In my 3700X I think it was on 96% with stock voltage and 106~ with +50mv).

*Is there a quick/easy way to see in Windows if my CPU is following stock voltage or the old offset voltage? *( I don't trust my motherboard, I think all settings got default back, ASRock B450 ITX. But not sure about the voltage)

_By the way, regarding power plans, I also noticed that the AMD chipset driver (after re-installing) didn't clean my old "Ryzen Balanced" profile (from Zen 2), It was still the default. So I did a Uninstall--> then Install and now it's gone and back to "Balanced". So I'll keep this in mind in the future._


----------



## BNSoul

thesebastian said:


> I just got a 5800X3D!
> 
> I think my CPU voltage offset (previous configured on +50mv for 3700X) is gone from the BIOS setup so I can't see what's the current value.
> Power deviation is on 110% average on Prime 95 Small FTTs (In my 3700X I think it was on 96% with stock voltage and 106~ with +50mv).
> 
> *Is there a quick/easy way to see in Windows if my CPU is following stock voltage or the old offset voltage? *( I don't trust my motherboard, I think all settings got default back, ASRock B450 ITX. But not sure about the voltage)
> 
> _By the way, regarding power plans, I also noticed that the AMD chipset driver (after re-installing) didn't clean my old "Ryzen Balanced" profile (from Zen 2), It was still the default. So I did a Uninstall--> then Install and now it's gone and back to "Balanced". So I'll keep this in mind in the future._


hey hola, lo primero the first you got to do is full CMOS (BIOS) reset followed by a fresh / clean install of Windows, make sure that PBO2-Tuner app is not running (with its sys service not running in the background either) before installing latest AMD chipset drivers. Por lo que veo reading between the lines it seems you dropped the CPU in the socket but didn't nuke the OS and the BIOS beforehand.


----------



## ilmazzo

Seems I'm finally going to the 3D route at the end of september

Since I made a fresh W10 install some months ago and since I don't want to move to W11 any soon, would be ok to just do a reset of my w10 keeping user files and then installing new chipset drivers and so on?

cheers


----------



## spajdr

@AXi0M @ManniX-ITA
So far so good, guys (it may be my USB headphones dying after all).
I've changed the volts as per your recommendation and I'm using other headphones just in case, so far no problem with the sound.
Thanks for the tips!


----------



## Pastrami King

I just finished putting together my 5800x3d system, but I am having an issue where power delivery to my USB ports turns off while my computer is sleeping. I have disabled USB selective suspend setting and turned off PCI Express/Link State Power Management, but I cannot get my USB ports to remain on while the computer is sleeping. Is this the result of the AMD Ryzen Power Provisioning Package included in the Chipset Drivers for Windows 11?


----------



## AXi0M

Pastrami King said:


> I just finished putting together my 5800x3d system, but I am having an issue where power delivery to my USB ports turns off while my computer is sleeping. I have disabled USB selective suspend setting and turned off PCI Express/Link State Power Management, but I cannot get my USB ports to remain on while the computer is sleeping. Is this the result of the AMD Ryzen Power Provisioning Package included in the Chipset Drivers for Windows 11?


Have you checked in bios for the setting? check "On-board device configuration" under the advanced tab for "USB Power Delivery in Soft Off State" i have ASUS board so it might be labeled differently on other boards.


----------



## Pastrami King

AXi0M said:


> Have you checked in bios for the setting? check "On-board device configuration" under the advanced tab for "USB Power Delivery in Soft Off State" i have ASUS board so it might be labeled differently on other boards.


I have an Asus board as well. It’s set to enabled, so power delivery should be left on.


----------



## spajdr

Guys, now that RAM is stable with going on IF to 1933Mhz I'm getting WHEA errors, mostly 4 per minute? Any tips on what voltage to change?
Ignore current settings for voltage, I'm trying various combinations.


----------



## BHS1975

Just swapped the default front fan on my DRP4 for a Noctua chromax black NF-A12x25 and dropped 7C to 71C maxrunning CB24 multi. This fan is incredible. Pricey but well worth it. Went back to -0.56 offset with auto LLC to be safe.


----------



## Fight Game

ilmazzo said:


> Seems I'm finally going to the 3D route at the end of september
> 
> Since I made a fresh W10 install some months ago and since I don't want to move to W11 any soon, would be ok to just do a reset of my w10 keeping user files and then installing new chipset drivers and so on?
> 
> cheers


Assuming you will be doing some testing to assure its running good enough, I'd say there's no hurt in trying. But I'm sure someone will chime in and say not to.


----------



## Fight Game

I think it's a little odd that AMD hasn't shown some benchmarks vs. "the best gaming chip in the world" (that I've seen). Since they didn't, I'm wondering if it still will be? Maybe they know it too and that's why we haven't seen it? I can't really see myself "upgrading" to anything with less cache at this point


----------



## cbr600

Fight Game said:


> I think it's a little odd that AMD hasn't shown some benchmarks vs. "the best gaming chip in the world" (that I've seen). Since they didn't, I'm wondering if it still will be? Maybe they know it too and that's why we haven't seen it? I can't really see myself "upgrading" to anything with less cache at this point





Fight Game said:


> I think it's a little odd that AMD hasn't shown some benchmarks vs. "the best gaming chip in the world" (that I've seen). Since they didn't, I'm wondering if it still will be? Maybe they know it too and that's why we haven't seen it? I can't really see myself "upgrading" to anything with less cache at this point


I believe this is the real reason we are locked down on the 5800x3d. Even if we could not change volts I truly believe most of these are hand selected chips that can do 4.7 4.8 at these volts but If we could change the multipliers I think it would cut into Zen 4 so much that it would look bad. I wish someone would fined a way to unlock multiplier at least as I would love to get to 4.7 or so and really see what we had against Zen 4 now clearly I think Zen 4 with 3D will destroy normal Zen 4 and Zen 3 3D as it has to what will be interesting is how games bench against the 5800x3d


----------



## gffermari

Where high frequency is needed, the zen 4 parts will destroy us(1+GHz uplift).

After the zen 4 3D is released, they should let the 5800X3D free and unlocked. I really want to see its full potential.


----------



## ilmazzo

Fight Game said:


> Assuming you will be doing some testing to assure its running good enough, I'd say there's no hurt in trying. But I'm sure someone will chime in and say not to.


Oh, well.... I'll take the risk uhuhuh

Regarding 5800X3D versus rest of the world..... the first thing to say is that 5800X3D production and availability is NOWHERE near Zen4 numbers, so the sandbagging thing is not real imho and that's the main reason because this CPU is so overpriced (but I'll buy it anyway, sorry Pat). This is an halo product. The real numbers are kept for Zen4 3D and so on...


----------



## BNSoul

BHS1975 said:


> Just swapped the default front fan on my DRP4 for a Noctua chromax black NF-A12x25 and dropped 7C to 71C maxrunning CB24 multi. This fan is incredible. Pricey but well worth it. Went back to -0.56 offset with auto LLC to be safe.


That's two wise decisions there mate 👍
I'd still have loved to check your results with LLC enabled since I'm too scared to try on my own CPU 😂😂


----------



## BNSoul

There's no AMD conspiracy here, Zen 4 has been in development for 4 years and their much improved single thread performance + IPC gains + double L2 + DDR5 + higher TDP should yield similar gaming performance as the 5800X3D while winning in most games that are not particularly sensitive to L3 cache. There's always a better thing around the corner.


----------



## Pedros

Is there anyone that swapped a 5950X for a 5800X3D that can give me some feedback if you see any improvements in certain areas for gaming? "is it worth it" ?


----------



## BNSoul

Pedros said:


> Is there anyone that swapped a 5950X for a 5800X3D that can give me some feedback if you see any improvements in certain areas for gaming? "is it worth it" ?


Look up the benchmarks for the games you play at the resolution you use and with your GPU. If you use your PC for school or work I don't think it's a good idea to swap it.


----------



## Pedros

BNSoul said:


> Look up the benchmarks for the games you play at the resolution you use and with your GPU. If you use your PC for school or work I don't think it's a good idea to swap it.


I already did check the benches of course. But I was looking for some personal experience overall. 

For work I use Mac, so this is just for gaming.


----------



## BNSoul

Pedros said:


> I already did check the benches of course. But I was looking for some personal experience overall.
> 
> For work I use Mac, so this is just for gaming.


Ah, for gaming the 5800X3D is the best CPU even if the 5950X is already great, you'll get amazing 1% lows translated into really smooth playable experiences. Most games are like day and night with regard to average fps and also important stutter-free frame delivery and frame pacing. Power consumption is also much reduced in the case of the 3D CPU. On the other hand, to be completely honest if I had a 5950X I would wait until Zen 4 3D if I wanted to swap, there's no game struggling to run on your Zen 3.


----------



## Pedros

BNSoul said:


> Ah, for gaming the 5800X3D is the best CPU even if the 5950X is already great, you'll get amazing 1% lows translated into really smooth playable experiences. Most games are like day and night with regard to average fps and also important stutter-free frame delivery and frame pacing. Power consumption is also much reduced in the case of the 3D CPU. On the other hand, to be completely honest if I had a 5950X I would wait until Zen 4 3D if I wanted to swap, there's no game struggling to run on your Zen 3.


yeah, i totally agree on waiting for the Zen 4 3D ... I got someone asking me if I wanted to sell my 5950x, and got me thinking. The plan is for my current rig to go to my kid when I upgrade it to zen 4 3D ... 

But meanwhile, I don't know if it's worth the hassle ... plus i don't know if with future GPUs, the extra cache from the 5800x3D will pay a big role or not.


----------



## BNSoul

Pedros said:


> yeah, i totally agree on waiting for the Zen 4 3D ... I got someone asking me if I wanted to sell my 5950x, and got me thinking. The plan is for my current rig to go to my kid when I upgrade it to zen 4 3D ...
> 
> But meanwhile, I don't know if it's worth the hassle ... plus i don't know if with future GPUs, the extra cache from the 5800x3D will pay a big role or not.


Considering AMD will be launching additional 3DX CPUs it's clear the tech is still relevant regardless of the GPUs in the market. There's always a CPU bottleneck in every game that the CPU needs to overcome in order to get 100% GPU usage, the 3D tech facilitates this is in the most CPU intensive games.


----------



## BHS1975

BNSoul said:


> That's two wise decisions there mate 👍
> I'd still have loved to check your results with LLC enabled since I'm too scared to try on my own CPU 😂😂


 here's a run I just did with LLC 3 and -0.75 offset with -30 CO


----------



## thesebastian

Could somebody tell me if this CPU voltage (Core VIDs value) is normal and stock? (max 1.288v)

I left Hwinfo running in background for like 1 hour. PC was idle or with light usage.


----------



## BNSoul

BHS1975 said:


> here's a run I just did with LLC 3 and -0.75 offset with -30 CO


That's some nice effective clocks and great score with that reduced voltage (I just hope the V-drop mitigation is minimal at level 3 LLC), but mate you know you can get even better effective clocks without LLC and without the offset, try turning both oh those off and setting Cinebench R23 priority from "below normal" to "normal", also go to power settings and set the slider/drop down menu to "best performance" (don't change the power plan to high performance though). Set HWiNFO64 to Zen snapshot mode also.

With those settings you should hit perfect 4.450, but what you got is already better than most 5800X3D out there. In my case there's no margin for improvement I hit the exact same score 15451 multi and 1508 single every time I bench and pretty much it's the limit of 100.0 BCLK. There's an optimization here though, I don't run HWiNFO64 during the single core test since the CPU usage of HWiNFO64 impacts it a bit, so I only open the monitoring tool for the multi-core test.

R20 100.0MHz limit / performance ceiling









R23 100.0MHz performance ceiling









I cannot get any better than this anymore, not even trying on Windows 10 with my old man's 5800X3D (same production date and batch). I could try an offset if it becomes available but seeing I'm getting 4450 efficient clocks already there's no point really. As you have evidenced in your testing this CPU can be much more efficient than a 3700X taking both -30 CO and -0.07 Vcore like it was nothing.

These CPUs could run stock 4650 all-core without a doubt but AMD had to be conservative considering the number of different motherboards/VRMs this CPU can be installed on.

I believe Zen 4 3D will keep boosting as long as there's voltage and temp room to do so, but with those high frequencies and increased TDP on such an small die I wonder if temperatures won't be 75 C+ already in stock configuration.


----------



## BNSoul

thesebastian said:


> Could somebody tell me if this CPU voltage (Core VIDs value) is normal and stock? (max 1.288v)
> 
> I left Hwinfo running in background for like 1 hour. PC was idle or with light usage.


Stock is 1.3v so... It's normal I guess. Why aren't you testing with PBO2 Tuner though? There's not a single downside to using it.

Also, what were you running that the system stalled on that low power deviation? 30%?


----------



## thesebastian

BNSoul said:


> Stock is 1.3v so... It's normal I guess. Why aren't you testing with PBO2 Tuner though? There's not a single downside to using it.
> 
> Also, what were you running that the system stalled on that low power deviation? 30%?


Thanks. Was asking just in case my motherboard was adding extra voltage or something. (I had a bad experience with with my previous two Zen 2 CPUs, so I want to be sure it's picking the right voltage for the 5800X3D). And was also seeing lot of low max voltages here in the topic (probably due to PBO2 tuner).

Regarding that low power deviation. I wasn't doing anything special.. I just left the PC idle with Chrome open and the usual apps (Steam, Discord, etc).
If I do a full core load (like Cinebench R23) it stays around 110%

Regarding PBO2 Tuner. I'm new to Zen 3. Today I tested the app quickly. I did a -10, -30, then -50 (I couldn't do less). But I haven't stress tested properly yet. Just did quick 1-2 minute tests and cinebench. I'll probably use it in the future.


----------



## BNSoul

thesebastian said:


> Thanks. Was asking just in case my motherboard was adding extra voltage or something. (I had a bad experience with with my previous two Zen 2 CPUs, so I want to be sure it's picking the right voltage for the 5800X3D). And was also seeing lot of low max voltages here in the topic (probably due to PBO2 tuner).
> 
> Regarding that low power deviation. I wasn't doing anything special.. I just left the PC idle with Chrome open and the usual apps (Steam, Discord, etc).
> If I do a full core load (like Cinebench R23) it stays around 110%
> 
> Regarding PBO2 Tuner. I'm new to Zen 3. Today I tested the app quickly. I did a -10, -30, then -50 (I couldn't do less). But I haven't stress tested properly yet. Just did quick 1-2 minute tests and cinebench. I'll probably use it in the future.


Don't do anything further than -30.... you can try proven and tested 116 77 117 power limits for gaming and 114 75 115 for benchmarking, with a curve optimizer of -15 for best cores and -30 for all the remaining six. Let me know how it goes for you. If you game at 200+ fps change limits to 122 82 124.


----------



## thesebastian

BNSoul said:


> Don't do anything further than -30.... you can try proven and tested 116 77 117 power limits for gaming and 114 75 115 for benchmarking, with a curve optimizer of -15 for best cores and -30 for all the remaining six. Let me know how it goes for you. If you game at 200+ fps change limits to 122 82 124.


Thanks for the advice. What happens if you go below -30? is something risky or you just lose peformance?

I'll take notes from your post, for later. Right now I don't have good cooling for stress testing this CPU. (However, for my current game it's running cool). I'm coming from an 88W PPT limit Zen 2.
I'll improve it next month!


----------



## Setakka

Just made the jump from a 7700k to a 5800x3d, slotted into a x570s aorus master. Ram is 2 2x8 kits of team group xtreem 4133 cl18 (TXKD416G4133HC18FDC01). I'm new to OCing ryzen, what's the best way for me to take advantage of this new setup?


----------



## pfinch

I'm getting at 3d benchmarks and games (720p) consistently 3 to 7% better scores with l1+2 prefetchers disabled. Could someone confirm this too?
CB23


----------



## BNSoul

pfinch said:


> I'm getting at 3d benchmarks and games (720p) consistently 3 to 7% better scores with l1+2 prefetchers disabled. Could someone confirm this too?
> CB23


Confirmed for R23 and R20 0.1% increase, as we already discussed. Confirmed for 7-zip 1.13%, confirmed for crypto mining tools 1-2% improvement. On the other hand performance regression for Geek Bench 5, 3%, performance regression in every game I've tested at 1440p (3-5% frames lost consistently in Shadow of the tomb raider, Warzone and Spider man), performance regression using Linux Open Foam engineering tool (6%), need to test at 1080p / 720p. There's no AMD statement with regard to these settings, but as long as 1440p gaming and higher stays positively affected there's no point in disabling them.


----------



## Awisko

has anyone with an asus x570 mobo ever figured out the 106% power reporting deviation at full load?










this is during a c23 all core run

machines been running great im just wondering if theres some extra performance i can squeeze out of this chip since it thinks its pulling more than it actually is, resulting in less power draw.

edit: added the wrong screenshot


----------



## BNSoul

Awisko said:


> has anyone with an asus x570 mobo ever figured out the 106% power reporting deviation at full load?
> 
> View attachment 2570793
> 
> 
> this is during a c23 all core run
> 
> machines been running great im just wondering if theres some extra performance i can squeeze out of this chip since it thinks its pulling more than it actually is, resulting in less power draw.
> 
> edit: added the wrong screenshot


That only matters when running at flatline 100% load with sequential, scripted-like instruction pipelines. Basically you won't see a difference except 0,1 - 1% in benchmarks. The last BIOS update for my motherboard adjusted power report from 103 to 100% and indeed I got around 100 additional points in Cinebench, which represents a 0,58% increase at best.


----------



## Awisko

BNSoul said:


> That only matters when running at flatline 100% load with sequential, scripted-like instruction pipelines. Basically you won't see a difference except 0,1 - 1% in benchmarks. The last BIOS update for my motherboard adjusted power report from 103 to 100% and indeed I got around 100 additional points in Cinebench, which represents a 0,58% increase at best.


thanks for the reply, i guess ill have to wait for asus to release a new bios as i dont wanna downgrade to 4204, can i also ask you what is the best test to see if the cpu will boost to 4550? i just ran an aida64 and the highest clock i got was 4449, with ryzen master reporting a limit of 4500 but it never got there.


----------



## BNSoul

Awisko said:


> thanks for the reply, i guess ill have to wait for asus to release a new bios as i dont wanna downgrade to 4204, can i also ask you what is the best test to see if the cpu will boost to 4550? i just ran an aida64 and the highest clock i got was 4449, with ryzen master reporting a limit of 4500 but it never got there.


Run "boost tester" by overclocker @ManniX-ITA make sure there's nothing running in the background and use HWiNFO64 in Zen snapshot mode, only monitor clock speeds, disable everything else and set a 510ms polling interval.

Zen snapshot mode will show actual speeds logged by the CPU and not a generic "4550” number.


----------



## Awisko

BNSoul said:


> Run "boost tester" by overclocker @ManniX-ITA make sure there's nothing running in the background and use HWiNFO64 in Zen snapshot mode, only monitor clock speeds, disable everything else and set a 510ms polling interval.
> 
> Zen snapshot mode will show actual speeds logged by the CPU and not a generic "4550” number.


thank you so much, was seeing an average of 4540 so i guess im good! would using pbo tuner 2 increase my performance in games or am i only looking at a temp decrease at all core loads? most of the games i play only use about 30% of the cpu per my monitoring tools so im unsure if i want to fiddle or just leave it be.


----------



## BNSoul

Awisko said:


> thank you so much, was seeing an average of 4540 so i guess im good! would using pbo tuner 2 increase my performance in games or am i only looking at a temp decrease at all core loads? most of the games i play only use about 30% of the cpu per my monitoring tools so im unsure if i want to fiddle or just leave it be.


By using a validated voltage curve (you can validate using Core Cycler, you can ask for details if you don't know how to set it up) your cores will sip less voltage while retaining 100% of their performance, but ideally the lower temps serve as a slight overclock and cores will push harder and hold max boost for longer, which is the most relevant outcome. See below what happens at -30 with good quality silicon: (snapshot mode)










Most cores go from 4544-4545 straight to 4550 which is a hard lock by AMD at 100MHz that you can only overcome by increasing BCLK. AMD will only guarantee a 4500MHz boost, anything past that depends on silicon quality, voltage values and temperature. Typically a 5800X3D will boost past 4537 easily and most will also reach 4550 in most cores (screenshot above shows some of them reaching 4550 but that changes depending on room temp and background Windows shenanigans, I've most of the time got every core boost to actual 4550 MHz speed). Again this is in Ryzen snapshot mode, in HWINFO64 default mode boosting will show 4550 even if actual speed was 4512... which is misleading.

Also you can make three cores boost simultaneously (which some will disagree as in what happens is that three cores are rapidly changing from boost to non boost status in one millisecond... by observing it closer and seeing behaviour and performance I'm more inclined to label it as a simultaneous boost). Use Y-Cruncher to verify this, the screenshot below is a bit old since with new BIOS I can make them boost to 4545 effective clocks. It's both a stress test and a core health check.










So yeah I gave you plenty of reasons to use PBO2 Tuner not just for better temps but increased performance.


----------



## Awisko

BNSoul said:


> By using a validated voltage curve (you can validate using Core Cycler, you can ask for details if you don't know how to set it up) your cores will sip less voltage while retaining 100% of their performance, but ideally the lower temps serve as a slight overclock and cores will push harder and hold max boost for longer, which is the most relevant outcome. See below what happens at -30 with good quality silicon: (snapshot mode)
> 
> View attachment 2570810
> 
> 
> Most cores go from 4544-4545 straight to 4550 which is a hard lock by AMD at 100MHz that you can only overcome by increasing BCLK. AMD will only guarantee a 4500MHz boost, anything past that depends on silicon quality, voltage values and temperature. Typically a 5800X3D will boost past 4537 easily and most will also reach 4550 in most cores (screenshot above shows some of them reaching 4550 but that changes depending on room temp and background Windows shenanigans, I've most of the time got every core boost to actual 4550 MHz speed). Again this is in Ryzen snapshot mode, in HWINFO64 default mode boosting will show 4550 even if actual speed was 4512... which is misleading.
> 
> Also you can make three cores boost simultaneously (which some will disagree as in what happens is that three cores are rapidly changing from boost to non boost status in one millisecond... by observing it closer and seeing behaviour and performance I'm more inclined to label it as a simultaneous boost). Use Y-Cruncher to verify this, the screenshot below is a bit old since with new BIOS I can make them boost to 4545 effective clocks. It's both a stress test and a core health check.
> 
> View attachment 2570811
> 
> 
> So yeah I gave you plenty of reasons to use PBO2 Tuner not just for better temps but increased performance.


very informative thanks! i know how to use pbo tuner and core cycler after many hours spent fiddling with my old 5800x, should i just go full send at -30? judging by this thread i see a lot of people stable at -30


----------



## thesebastian

BNSoul said:


> Don't do anything further than -30.... you can try proven and tested 116 77 117 power limits for gaming and 114 75 115 for benchmarking, with a curve optimizer of -15 for best cores and -30 for all the remaining six. Let me know how it goes for you. If you game at 200+ fps change limits to 122 82 124.


1) I used the PC full day with -30 and the cores were just reaching 44.5x.
2) Then I downloaded "BoostTester.exe" and in like 2 hours, got 2/3 cores reaching 45.5x running the program while working.
3) Then I closed everything (Outlook/Teams/Chrome/CitrixReceiver all the office apps I use) and reset HwInfo and now BoostTester reaches 45.5x always in less than 1 min. _Probably many times somebody says that is not reaching 45.5x is because of background apps and services._

I also uninstalled Hyper-V so HwInfo shows 100Mhz in bus clock (otherwise it shows 97 / 98 / 99 Mhz) another issue I had (maybe visual issue).


_







_



So now I need to read a bit about stress testing to see how unstable this is for me. 
But I have poor cooling. (NH-U12S capped at 850 RPM). I will raise the limit to 1200 RPM but I need to change some cables inside the PC.

Voltages are much lower.
Question: how does the Core VID compares to the Curve Optimizer? With 0/stock I reach v1.288 and with -30 I reach v1.150
so v0,138 difference.


----------



## cbr600

Where can I get PBO tuner cant seem to fined a link to it ?


----------



## thesebastian

cbr600 said:


> Where can I get PBO tuner cant seem to fined a link to it ?


I think I got it here, attached: 5800X3D Owners
edit: from here: CoreCycler - tool for testing Curve Optimizer settings


----------



## Awisko

with -30 on all cores using PBO2 tuner, i managed to get #1 spot for 5800x3d and 3060ti in timespy!









I scored 12 705 in Time Spy


AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com





now the question is, do i leave my ram at stock xmp settings (terrible timings) or do i tune that too... decisions decisions... what would you guys do?


----------



## BNSoul

Awisko said:


> with -30 on all cores using PBO2 tuner, i managed to get #1 spot for 5800x3d and 3060ti in timespy!
> 
> now the question is, do i leave my ram at stock xmp settings (terrible timings) or do i tune that too... decisions decisions... what would you guys do?


Nice result, congrats and way to go 👍
Now, the difference between XMP profile and tuned RAM on a 5800X3D is 1% as long as you're not using CL80 Wal-Mart DDR4. The most RAM sensitive game I knew before getting a Zen 3 3D was Shadow of the Tomb Raider, I believe it still is, I did some tests with the in-game benchmark and I decided that further tuning my 3800MT/s RAM wasn't worth it. You can try if you're bored I mean there's nothing to lose but... is there anything to win? 😅


----------



## Awisko

BNSoul said:


> Nice result, congrats and way to go 👍
> Now, the difference between XMP profile and tuned RAM on a 5800X3D is 1% as long as you're not using CL80 Wal-Mart DDR4. The most RAM sensitive game I knew before getting a Zen 3 3D was Shadow of the Tomb Raider, I believe it still is, I did some tests with the in-game benchmark and I decided that further tuning my 3800MT/s RAM wasn't worth it. You can try if you're bored I mean there's nothing to lose but... is there anything to win? 😅


appreciate it, thank you!

and yeah thats what ive been seeing too, maybe 1% increase, im not sure if the hassle is worth it, with my old 5800x i spent like 3-4 days messing with ram timings and it was just a headache, i think ill just leave it be and enjoy it as is.


----------



## Blameless

BNSoul said:


> but... is there anything to win? 😅


Depends on how much stuff you have in WinRAR archives. That said, even going from XMP 3600 CL 14 to hand tuned 3800 CL 15 is more than 1% in P1% frames in many of my games on my 5800X3D.

Of course, I was always going to tune my memory as far as it could be tuned anyway. DRAM tuning is one of my favorite games (been playing it for 30 years and still haven't beaten it) and, within my other constraints, I'd never willingly leave even a small amount of performance on the table.


----------



## Blameless

Figured out my lightly threaded boost issue that was reducing my 2-thread and 1-thread scores in 3DMark's CPU Profiler on Server 2022. Turns out that it was down to SerializeTimerExpiration which defaults to "2" (forced disabled) on Server 2019 and Server 2022. This forces the system timer to be spread out among all non-parked cores...good for extreme multi-threaded loads and virtualization latency...bad for the lightly threaded boost algorithm on the 5800X3D that needs near idle cores to consistently see 4.55GHz on a few.

Will do some more testing to see if this has any negative performance impacts in real-world use.


----------



## StevieRay2

Hey all, just got my first Zen3 the 5800X3D!, been messing with settings and using -25 CO now tested by ycruncher and have a few questions with my findings. Also my temps are pretty good, idle 34c R23 81c, ycruncher 1-2 tests do hit 90c though.
1. Using Balanced LowPower V8 is the only way to get my cores to idle to 1700mhz my lowest vcore is .87v on idle any one get lower than that I can't seem to?
2. With that power plan I couldn't hit max single boost on cores even with BoostTesterMannix until I changed the 2 CPPC and C-States from auto to on and Preferred off.
3. When I have programs and stuff open(like 10% cpu usage) I can't seem to hit max single boost on any core in R23 single or BoostTesterMannix anymore is that normal? Until I close programs. Is there a way to let it boost to the max single more even with programs open?
4. For PPT and the other 2 options do they even affect my temps unless I put them way lower than normal? Right now at 142 PPT I seem to get the same temp as 120 PPT but both don't hit 100% during R23 multi so is that not doing much if anything unless I hit the 100% limit? Same with the other 2 settings.


----------



## ManniX-ITA

StevieRay2 said:


> Using Balanced LowPower V8 is the only way to get my cores to idle to 1700mhz my lowest vcore is .87v on idle any one get lower than that I can't seem to?


Doesn't really matter the vCore and and reference clock to judge if it's idling or not.
It can be highly misleading.

Check the power readings from HWInfo:









Check also the temperatures:









Specifically to understand if it's idling the CPU Die average.

Did you try the Snappy power plan?
It was reported the best for the 5800X3D and it could have a different behavior with ST boosting.



StevieRay2 said:


> 3. When I have programs and stuff open(like 10% cpu usage) I can't seem to hit max single boost on any core in R23 single or BoostTesterMannix anymore is that normal? Until I close programs. Is there a way to let it boost to the max single more even with programs open?


This looks normal to me.
But hard to judge how much load is exactly that 10%.



StevieRay2 said:


> 4. For PPT and the other 2 options do they even affect my temps unless I put them way lower than normal? Right now at 142 PPT I seem to get the same temp as 120 PPT but both don't hit 100% during R23 multi so is that not doing much if anything unless I hit the 100% limit? Same with the other 2 settings.


In general is better to keep the PBO limits at 80% of the maximum usage.
But there's a different load for different type of workloads.
Usually R23 MT is a good reference, y-cruncher bench 2.5b should suck even more.
Not sure about the specifics of the 5800X3D, someone else probably can give a more informed opinion.


----------



## StevieRay2

ManniX-ITA said:


> Doesn't really matter the vCore and and reference clock to judge if it's idling or not.
> It can be highly misleading.
> 
> Check the power readings from HWInfo:
> View attachment 2571052
> 
> 
> Check also the temperatures:
> View attachment 2571053
> 
> 
> Specifically to understand if it's idling the CPU Die average.
> 
> Did you try the Snappy power plan?
> It was reported the best for the 5800X3D and it could have a different behavior with ST boosting.
> 
> 
> 
> This looks normal to me.
> But hard to judge how much load is exactly that 10%.
> 
> 
> 
> In general is better to keep the PBO limits at 80% of the maximum usage.
> But there's a different load for different type of workloads.
> Usually R23 MT is a good reference, y-cruncher bench 2.5b should suck even more.
> Not sure about the specifics of the 5800X3D, someone else probably can give a more informed opinion.


At "idle" under power package in hwinfo I use about 10-20w and each core about .2w, still lowest vcore is .86v, saw some other post here saying they get like .19v or something crazy low for their minimum, is that even possible?
Edit: Just tried Snappy, it doesn't lower my cores to 1700mhz when I'm not doing anything intestive so I'll skip this one too.
As for the R23 MT limits I seem to hit 100% on the edc even at stock and tdc 96% at 75, maybe I'll just keep all 3 at their max.


----------



## ManniX-ITA

StevieRay2 said:


> At "idle" under power package in hwinfo I use about 10-20w and each core about .2w, still lowest vcore is .86v, saw some other post here saying they get like .19v or something crazy low for their minimum, is that even possible?
> Edit: Just tried Snappy, it doesn't lower my cores to 1700mhz when I'm not doing anything intestive so I'll skip this one too.


Probably I didn't explain myself clearly...

I don't know the 5800X3D specifically but in general if the cores are going down to 1700 MHz it's a *BAD* sign, omen that something is *WRONG*.

Yes you can get vCore down to 0.2V and clocks down to 200 MHz with some power plans. *Is it better? No, completely the opposite.*

When they get down like that the reason is that all the *sophisticated and advanced hardware power saving mechanisms from the CPU are disabled*.

_*You are not actually saving power but consuming more.*_

Not only that. You are also killing performances on top.
Test: leave the PC in idle with the mouse hovering over the Windows start menu.
When it's at idle (few minutes not doing anythin), move quickly to a small app, like Notepad (pinned in the menu, always use the same positions).
Take a note on how quickly the mouse moves and how quickly the app opens.

The reasons to keep the vCore not lower than 0.8v and the reference clock not lower than circa 3000 MHz are two; performances and stability.
Lower than that for clock and vCore and the additional power saving delta is so abysmal that can't even be measured.
There's no gain in it. But there's more.

Rising the clocks and vCore takes time. It's not done in one shot but in small steps that you can't see.
If they go too down, it'll hurt your boosting and performances when coming out from idle.
This hits from where you don't use the mouse for 5 seconds and over and then progressively more.
It also hurts all the processes that are scheduled in a sleeping core.
Over time you'll have the bad feeling that the system is sluggish and not "snappy" anymore (hence the name of that power plan).
It's not a good felling for something you probably paid big money.

A big delta for clock and vCore to come up also means less stability.
That's the main reason a lot of people gets sudden reboots in idle or watching Youtube with AMD processors; they are not the best in this regard.
That's also why very often this issue can be fixed by a differen power plan.
A small step too fast or slow for the clock going up or too slow for the vCore to adapt and the CPU will reset.

That's why I told you to check the power readings; while not perfect or super reliable they'll tell you which plan works better.
Keep HWInfo open and you should see the core power readings to go down to about 0.020 W or so minimum, maybe not all but for some at least.
If you are stuck at 0.2W, means something is not working optimal with power management:










Check also the C6 residency is present and you can reach almost 100% maximum:









Compare the minimum power readings that I showed you before.
If you can get lower in the minimum reading, you know which works better.
Temperature is also a good metric but it's hard to exclude the influence of the ambient temperature.
If the readings are the same, choose the most performant.

Best would be a Smart power plug; if it's just decently reliable in energy measurement you can do A/B testing and know for sure the best settings for power saving.
The TP-Link smart plugs are trash but works; 10-15 € for your ease of mind.

*Again, Clock and vCore are not a good metric.*



StevieRay2 said:


> At "idle" under power package in hwinfo I use about 10-20w and each core about .2w, still lowest vcore is .86v, saw some other post here saying they get like .19v or something crazy low for their minimum, is that even possible?
> Edit: Just tried Snappy, it doesn't lower my cores to 1700mhz when I'm not doing anything intestive so I'll skip this one too.
> As for the R23 MT limits I seem to hit 100% on the edc even at stock and tdc 96% at 75, maybe I'll just keep all 3 at their max.


Best would be to run some R23 benchmarks and compare.
EDC at 100% is very likely to happen. TDC at 96% is very tight.
PPT is the easier one to keep at 80% and also the first one to hit performances if too close to the limit.


----------



## StevieRay2

ManniX-ITA said:


> Probably I didn't explain myself clearly...
> 
> I don't know the 5800X3D specifically but in general if the cores are going down to 1700 MHz it's a *BAD* sign, omen that something is *WRONG*.
> 
> Yes you can get vCore down to 0.2V and clocks down to 200 MHz with some power plans. *Is it better? No, completely the opposite.*
> 
> When they get down like that the reason is that all the *sophisticated and advanced hardware power saving mechanisms from the CPU are disabled*.
> 
> _*You are not actually saving power but consuming more.*_
> 
> Not only that. You are also killing performances on top.
> Test: leave the PC in idle with the mouse hovering over the Windows start menu.
> When it's at idle (few minutes not doing anythin), move quickly to a small app, like Notepad (pinned in the menu, always use the same positions).
> Take a note on how quickly the mouse moves and how quickly the app opens.
> 
> The reasons to keep the vCore not lower than 0.8v and the reference clock not lower than circa 3000 MHz are two; performances and stability.
> Lower than that for clock and vCore and the additional power saving delta is so abysmal that can't even be measured.
> There's no gain in it. But there's more.
> 
> Rising the clocks and vCore takes time. It's not done in one shot but in small steps that you can't see.
> If they go too down, it'll hurt your boosting and performances when coming out from idle.
> This hits from where you don't use the mouse for 5 seconds and over and then progressively more.
> It also hurts all the processes that are scheduled in a sleeping core.
> Over time you'll have the bad feeling that the system is sluggish and not "snappy" anymore (hence the name of that power plan).
> It's not a good felling for something you probably paid big money.
> 
> A big delta for clock and vCore to come up also means less stability.
> That's the main reason a lot of people gets sudden reboots in idle or watching Youtube with AMD processors; they are not the best in this regard.
> That's also why very often this issue can be fixed by a differen power plan.
> A small step too fast or slow for the clock going up or too slow for the vCore to adapt and the CPU will reset.
> 
> That's why I told you to check the power readings; while not perfect or super reliable they'll tell you which plan works better.
> Keep HWInfo open and you should see the core power readings to go down to about 0.020 W or so minimum, maybe not all but for some at least.
> If you are stuck at 0.2W, means something is not working optimal with power management:
> View attachment 2571135
> 
> 
> 
> Check also the C6 residency is present and you can reach almost 100% maximum:
> View attachment 2571134
> 
> 
> Compare the minimum power readings that I showed you before.
> If you can get lower in the minimum reading, you know which works better.
> Temperature is also a good metric but it's hard to exclude the influence of the ambient temperature.
> If the readings are the same, choose the most performant.
> 
> Best would be a Smart power plug; if it's just decently reliable in energy measurement you can do A/B testing and know for sure the best settings for power saving.
> The TP-Link smart plugs are trash but works; 10-15 € for your ease of mind.
> 
> *Again, Clock and vCore are not a good metric.*
> 
> 
> 
> Best would be to run some R23 benchmarks and compare.
> EDC at 100% is very likely to happen. TDC at 96% is very tight.
> PPT is the easier one to keep at 80% and also the first one to hit performances if too close to the limit.


Thanks for all the info, so comparing Snappy and LowPower, LowPower over all in the package power idles around 21w and Snappy around 26w so pretty minimal difference then and not a big deal? but like your explanation I will use Snappy because the boost locks are higher on idle. Also the performance energy mode I can't seem to see a difference between the middle and the right side.
As for the C6 should I run R23 multi and whatever power plan gives me the highest % is the best?


----------



## ManniX-ITA

StevieRay2 said:


> Thanks for all the info, so comparing Snappy and LowPower, LowPower over all in the package power idles around 21w and Snappy around 26w so pretty minimal difference then


Well, it's not a minimal difference 5 Watt. I did expect less honestly.
In the overall AC draw power consumption is probably not so much indeed.
But seems the better performances comes at a cost.



StevieRay2 said:


> but like your explanation I will use Snappy because the boost locks are higher on idle.


Test some time and reports how it goes. As said it was suggested as the best for the 5800X3D.
Maybe it's just cause it's, as name implies, snappier than the rest 



StevieRay2 said:


> As for the C6 should I run R23 multi and whatever power plan gives me the highest % is the best?


No C6 is the lowest sleeping state, it's about idling not load.
You should just leave HWInfo open, let the PC idle for a bit and check you have almost 100% C6.
That means at least some cores went sleeping in hardware mode while the system was idle.


----------



## StevieRay2

ManniX-ITA said:


> Well, it's not a minimal difference 5 Watt. I did expect less honestly.
> In the overall AC draw power consumption is probably not so much indeed.
> But seems the better performances comes at a cost.
> 
> 
> 
> Test some time and reports how it goes. As said it was suggested as the best for the 5800X3D.
> Maybe it's just cause it's, as name implies, snappier than the rest
> 
> 
> 
> No C6 is the lowest sleeping state, it's about idling not load.
> You should just leave HWInfo open, let the PC idle for a bit and check you have almost 100% C6.
> That means at least some cores went sleeping in hardware mode while the system was idle.


Even though the vcore and mhz is higher at idle it's interesting that C6 is higher on the Snappy plan than the LowPower one even though the LowPower has a sightly lower package power


----------



## ManniX-ITA

StevieRay2 said:


> Even though the vcore and mhz is higher at idle it's interesting that C6 is higher on the Snappy plan than the LowPower one even though the LowPower has a sightly lower package power


Indeed, can you understand where it's coming from?

The package power is a sum of Core Power + SoC Power + etc. Which one is responsible for that 5W more?


----------



## StevieRay2

ManniX-ITA said:


> Indeed, can you understand where it's coming from?
> 
> The package power is a sum of Core Power + SoC Power + etc. Which one is responsible for that 5W more?


I guess next step I'll adjust the tdc and edc, or maybe just leave them stock so they don't hit 100%


----------



## ManniX-ITA

StevieRay2 said:


> I guess next step I'll adjust the tdc and edc, or maybe just leave them stock so they don't hit 100%


Always benchmark; I have a Cezanne as well and on that one I get better performances with EDC at 95%, higher and it goes slower. TDC at 90% and it's slower. PPT without at least 20% and it's slower.
Very different behavior from the 5950X.

I have also much more power metrics on Cezanne and more access to them on Linux.

Looking now at HWInfo, I'd say it's best to avoid CPU Package Power. A least for me seems to be a copy of CPU PPT, which is not right.
Look at the minimu values for CPU Core Power SVI2 and CPU SoC Power SVI2.
The sum from HWInfo seems completely messed up.


----------



## Blameless

I'm using a custom power plan at this point. I mostly just took the Ultimate Performance plan and disabled even more disk power management, then set the performance increase and decrease policies to "rocket".



ManniX-ITA said:


> I don't know the 5800X3D specifically but in general if the cores are going down to 1700 MHz it's a *BAD* sign, omen that something is *WRONG*.


It just means the minimum processor state has been set to 51% or less.

With CPPC enabled and preferred cores disabled, every core on a 5800X3D should look like this to Kernel-Processor-Power:


> Performance state type: ACPI Collaborative Processor Performance Control
> Nominal Frequency (MHz): 3400
> Maximum performance percentage: 133
> Minimum performance percentage: 51
> Minimum throttle percentage: 16


You can get ~1700MHz with a "Minimum processor state" of 51% (or less), ~550MHz with 16% if you also enable "Allow throttle states", and still allow maximum 4.55GHz boost with "Processor performance boost policy" of 33% or higher.

I've never encountered any stability issues with settings like this, but I didn't use them long because, as you note, it doesn't actually save much power and it causes latency in reaching maximum performance.


----------



## pfinch

ManniX-ITA said:


> Test some time and reports how it goes. As said it was suggested as the best for the 5800X3D.
> Maybe it's just cause it's, as name implies, snappier than the rest


Your snappy power plan is the best for 5800x3d? even on win11?


----------



## ManniX-ITA

Blameless said:


> You can get ~1700MHz with a "Minimum processor state" of 51% (or less), ~550MHz with 16% if you also enable "Allow throttle states", and still allow maximum 4.55GHz boost with "Processor performance boost policy" of 33% or higher.


That's exactly what I mean.
Anything lower than 100% on the Minimum processor state will move the frequency control from the CPU to the Windows Scheduler.
You'll see the CPU clock going down and assume that it's better but it's usually not; it's going to draw more power and will be slower.

That's stuff for the old processors and you should avoid going lower than 100%, almost like a pest.
Same for linux, don't change the governor to conservative or else, it will be worse.

The power metrics from the CPU can possibly give you a hint but they are very often completely wrong or inaccurate.
Seems to me they are a mix of local measurements and gross estimates.
I'm playing a lot with the Cezanne on Linux exactly for power monitoring and I get the processor very often in weird states.
The actual power draw from the CPU while maybe reported 10W more is often 50-100W above that value...

When you lower the minimum processor state this will disable some of the CPU PM features.
Weird things can happen and the end the average power draw will be higher.
I've tested it a lot while preparing my custom power plans.

You can trust me or even better buy a smart plug and check for yourselves.
If you don't have a NAS or server then get a RaspberryPI to generate graphs, draws 1-2W of power, few bucks for that too.
Any smart home distro like SmartAssistant works fine and it's easy-peasy to configure.
It's a well worth investment and it will repay itself quickly.

I'll sum the results with my 5950X; with 16% same power draw, more or less, in standby.
But with 100% after a while it goes in a deeper power state and is consuming 10-12W less.
With 16% every background load will trigger higher power consumption for 1-2 minutes at least.
Load peaks will draw more power. And all this while being much sluggish and slower.
Especially with the 5950X where you can forget the max boost clock to go over 5000 MHz.

Look at this power draw peak while in idle with all sort of stuff open:









What is that??

I've done a check in the 30 days history and not only I've never got 360W peaks in idle, never got one even not in idle unless I was specifically running something really harsh on the cpu.
The highest I had was 290W.
Peaks in idle are usually between 190-210W and in few minutes I got 270-360W.
That's a load you get while running y-c 2.5b bench...

If you can't check the actual power draw better to play safe and keep min power state a 100%.
You'll take advantage of the very efficient cpu clock and power gating features; high performances and probably also a heavier wallet.



pfinch said:


> Your snappy power plan is the best for 5800x3d? even on win11?


So they say.
I think it works fine on Win11 as well but I didn't test it to be honest.


----------



## StevieRay2

Power plan question again, for Snappy and even LowPower should the minimum processor state be at 0% or 100% under processor power management?
I don't really notice a difference in idle?


----------



## ManniX-ITA

StevieRay2 said:


> Power plan question again, for Snappy and even LowPower should the minimum processor state be at 0% or 100% under processor power management?
> I don't really notice a difference in idle?


Set it to 100%.
You need a power meter to see the difference.


----------



## Blameless

ManniX-ITA said:


> The power metrics from the CPU can possibly give you a hint but they are very often completely wrong or inaccurate.


At lower loads I usually sanity check the figures reported by the CPU against what the motherboard VRM PMIC says (and I've ballparked those figures against a clamp ammeter).

Right now at low load, package power says ~45w, but both VRM loop (core and SoC) outputs are only ~30w combined. Differential corresponds closely (though not exactly) to HWiNFO's 'power reporting deviation accuracy' figure.


----------



## StevieRay2

What's the difference in the settings I can't see between the Snappy and Ultimate plan?
Also seems the power reporting devination at LowPower during idle shows 120% and Snappy 210%


----------



## ManniX-ITA

StevieRay2 said:


> What's the difference in the settings I can't see between the Snappy and Ultimate plan?
> Also seems the power reporting devination at LowPower during idle shows 120% and Snappy 210%


The difference is the autonomous mode enabled for Snappy.

For power deviation:






Explaining the AMD Ryzen "Power Reporting Deviation" -metric in HWiNFO


Ryzen CPUs for AM4 platform rely on external, motherboard sourced telemetry to determine their power consumption. The voltage, current and power telemetry is provided to the processor by the motherboard VRM controller through the AMD SVI2 interface. This information is consumed by the processors...




www.hwinfo.com





It's a metric for full load.


----------



## Blameless

ManniX-ITA said:


> It's a metric for full load.


Probably for the same reason package power is.


----------



## ManniX-ITA

Blameless said:


> Probably for the same reason package power is.


It is?
I'm not really sure what is package power 
What do you know about it, if I may ask?
Seems in HWInfo is a copy of socket power just like in ryzen_monitor in linux.
Can't map it in HWInfo to different sub-components but in ryzen_monitor I can see that even at idle the PPT/Socket power is matching the sum of them.


----------



## Blameless

ManniX-ITA said:


> It is?
> I'm not really sure what is package power
> What do you know about it, if I may ask?
> Seems in HWInfo is a copy of socket power just like in ryzen_monitor in linux.
> Can't map it in HWInfo to different sub-components but in ryzen_monitor I can see that even at idle the PPT/Socket power is matching the sum of them.


I assume it's the SMU's estimate of total socket input power, based on whatever the board PMIC reports for the core and SoC rails, plus who knows what for all the other supplemental rails that don't have their own PMICs...as hinted at by the HWiNFO description.

Whatever it's supposed to represent, it's clearly not accurate at idle, but makes progressively more sense the more heavily loaded the part is. This is not unlike the power reported deviation figure, assuming any effort at all was made to calibrate that reference value mentioned in Stilit's post (I set mine to read 100% during peak cinebench and CPU-Z multi-threaded loads, which corresponds to a value of 236 on that 0-255 scale with this CPU in this board set to LLC3 for the core and LLC2 for the SoC at 700kHz VRM switching frequency and no phase shedding).

I'm not saying they are necessarily derived from the same measurements, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were.


----------



## StevieRay2

Blameless said:


> I assume it's the SMU's estimate of total socket input power, based on whatever the board PMIC reports for the core and SoC rails, plus who knows what for all the other supplemental rails that don't have their own PMICs...as hinted at by the HWiNFO description.
> 
> Whatever it's supposed to represent, it's clearly not accurate at idle, but makes progressively more sense the more heavily loaded the part is. This is not unlike the power reported deviation figure, assuming any effort at all was made to calibrate that reference value mentioned in Stilit's post (I set mine to read 100% during peak cinebench and CPU-Z multi-threaded loads, which corresponds to a value of 236 on that 0-255 scale with this CPU in this board set to LLC3 for the core and LLC2 for the SoC at 700kHz VRM switching frequency and no phase shedding).
> 
> I'm not saying they are necessarily derived from the same measurements, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were.


Should LowPower vs Snappy have any performance benefits? So far not seeing any in game, they seem to boost the same and give the same R23 score the only difference is the LowPower cores drop to 1700mhz and vcore slightly lower idle.


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> Should LowPower vs Snappy have any performance benefits? So far not seeing any in game, they seem to boost the same and give the same R23 score the only difference is the LowPower cores drop to 1700mhz and vcore slightly lower idle.


You should be asking ManniX, he created those profiles.

Regardless, from his previous statements, the big difference is autonomous mode. In my experience autonomous mode has lower latency, and not much in the way of disadvantages.

If you can't tell the difference, probably use Snappy.


----------



## ManniX-ITA

StevieRay2 said:


> Should LowPower vs Snappy have any performance benefits? So far not seeing any in game, they seem to boost the same and give the same R23 score the only difference is the LowPower cores drop to 1700mhz and vcore slightly lower idle.


Exactly as @Blameless said.
The difference is in the autonomous mode.
Means lower latency and snappier system response.
When you trigger the system to wakeup from idle state (like moving the mouse) it'll be immediately available with minimal latency.

You are not going to see much difference, if any, in gaming.
For someone working with A/V that needs low latency it can be very useful. But in case of professional workload, the Ultimate is even better with Latency.



Blameless said:


> I assume it's the SMU's estimate of total socket input power, based on whatever the board PMIC reports for the core and SoC rails, plus who knows what for all the other supplemental rails that don't have their own PMICs...as hinted at by the HWiNFO description.


I think it's just the PPT, which is the socket power, but sampled at a different time, in HWInfo.
From ryzen_monitor I can see all the single metrics (USB, DDR, etc) and summed they match the socket power/PPT.
Seems this package power was exposed in some earlier power tables as something different.


----------



## StevieRay2

Oh I'll just stick to Snappy then.
In my most played games(This PC is mainly for gaming) my PPT TDC EDC hit 65 63 and 77 percent, any point changing these numbers? will these hitting a higher % pose any benefit or even lowering them in PBO2?


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> Oh I'll just stick to Snappy then.
> In my most played games(This PC is mainly for gaming) my PPT TDC EDC hit 65 63 and 77 percent, any point changing these numbers? will these hitting a higher % pose any benefit or even lowering them in PBO2?


Those are pretty low power figures. Most games won't hit them, but some well-threaded one might see lower effective clocks at such tight limits.

Also, those aren't percentages. PPT is in watts, TDC and EDC are in amperes.


----------



## StevieRay2

Blameless said:


> Those are pretty low power figures. Most games won't hit them, but some well-threaded one might see lower effective clocks at such tight limits.
> 
> Also, those aren't percentages. PPT is in watts, TDC and EDC are in amperes.


Oh these aren't my numbers it's just the % out of 100% I'm seeing in hwinfo under the PPT limits etc, none are hitting 100% during my most played games so any point changing my actual numbers? which are 125 75 125 currently.
Also would changing my llc have any benefits? on auto now and seen my vcore from .85 to 1.21


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> Oh these aren't my numbers it's just the % out of 100% I'm seeing in hwinfo under the PPT limits etc, none are hitting 100% during my most played games so any point changing my actual numbers? which are 125 75 125 currently.
> Also would changing my llc have any benefits? on auto now and seen my vcore from .85 to 1.21


Ah, I see.

If you aren't near 100%, then increasing the limits isn't going to improve anything. Reducing them probably won't help any games either.

LLC should probably be left alone unless you think it's harming effective clocks (check HWiNFO with snapshot polling enabled and run a heavy load).


----------



## StevieRay2

Blameless said:


> Ah, I see.
> 
> If you aren't near 100%, then increasing the limits isn't going to improve anything. Reducing them probably won't help any games either.
> 
> LLC should probably be left alone unless you think it's harming effective clocks (check HWiNFO with snapshot polling enabled and run a heavy load).


With snapshot polling enabled using R23 multi it looks like my core effective clocks match the core clocks in hwinfo so all good?


----------



## superkyle1721

Finally got around to tweaking my chip properly. Let me know if anyone sees a bit of room for improvements. I've got it fairly dialed in but always open to suggestions.


----------



## CCoR

superkyle1721 said:


> Finally got around to tweaking my chip properly. Let me know if anyone sees a bit of room for improvements. I've got it fairly dialed in but always open to suggestions.
> 
> View attachment 2571183


Single core on cpuz looks a lil low but other than that looks good. Could be a rogue program running in background...
In zen timings, is your tPHYRDL for both sticks 28?


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> With snapshot polling enabled using R23 multi it looks like my core effective clocks match the core clocks in hwinfo so all good?


Should be.


----------



## superkyle1721

CCoR said:


> Single core on cpuz looks a lil low but other than that looks good. Could be a rogue program running in background...
> In zen timings, is your tPHYRDL for both sticks 28?


Yeah both sticks are 28. For the single core It very well might be the programs but typically I fall between 602 and 603. Not much higher. Not sure what’s typical for this chip.


----------



## cbr600

Trying to learn to overclock ram. I have a old set off 3200 14-14-14-36 Samsung B die. I thought about buying something new 3600 14 but not sure its worth it with this CPU and the fact that I will do 7000x3d most likely. Anyways can someone look over these times and see if there is anymore I can get out of it in there option. It is stable at this point but still have 65 NS would really like to break high 50s but not sure if possible with this kit.


----------



## Frosted racquet

cbr600 said:


> Anyways can someone look over these times and see if there is anymore I can get out of it in there option. It is stable at this point but still have 65 NS would really like to break high 50s but not sure if possible with this kit.


Primary timings can probably go lower with higher vdimm, 1.5V is generally safe with correct CAD-bus resistances.
tRRDS/L can go to 4/4, or 4/6.
tWTRS/L can go 4/8
tRFC can probably go lower with that frequency
*SCL can go from 5/5 to 4/4 and maybe 2/2
Try tRTP 6
Tertiary timings tRDRDSD/DD can go 4/4 and tWRWRSD/DD can go 6/6
Here's my timings, with a similar Dual Rank kit


----------



## Blameless

Was torn between different PPT/TDC/EDC limits as some of the apps I use are demanding enough that reducing them at all compromises performance, but others like them reigned in a bit. In the end, I decided to just leverage the LCLK DPM bug to knock out the PPT limit entirely and loosen up the temperature limit. CPU goes to 90C in demanding loads like this, but since I'm running -30 CO on all cores (with ~50mV of spread between and the highest and lowest core voltage...tried tuning them all to the voltage of the highest core, which didn't change much of anything except make a couple of cores a few degrees warmer) with the highest voltage any core sees under load at about 1.15v, and the TDC/EDC limiters are still intact, I doubt there will be any meaningful longevity repercussions.

This is what I've got currently:









Prefetchers are enabled, and I'm not going to turn them off because it's a performance loss in most of the apps I actually use, but when they are off Cinebench is ~15400 multithreaded and a bit over 1500 single.

Using a custom power plan that probably resembles Mannix-ITA's a lot, though it's tuned a bit more specifically for the 5800X3D.

I've also decided on keeping serialized timers, eventhough it hurts WinRAR very slightly (half a percent), as it significantly improves the frequency with which lightly threaded boost hits and holds ~4550MHz (as can be seen from the CPU-Z score).


----------



## StevieRay2

I noticed in tests that -25 all core gives the same temps are -15, any point going as low as -25 then if the temps are the same in the end? would -15 possibly boost more often given that it's getting more voltage?
Oh also is PBO2 CO something that would stop working as well over the years like an OC where the number you set gets less stable over time?


----------



## SBuck

StevieRay2 said:


> I noticed in tests that -25 all core gives the same temps are -15, any point going as low as -25 then if the temps are the same in the end? would -15 possibly boost more often given that it's getting more voltage?
> Oh also is PBO2 CO something that would stop working as well over the years like an OC where the number you set gets less stable over time?


From what I have been doing and some of it influenced by what others have written. I decided to take my best cores and set them at -15 (C0, C7). It seems to not really reduce my single core scores. I then set my 2nd and 3rd best core at -20 (C2, C4). The fourth best core set at -25 (C3). The other cores set at -30 (C5,C6, C8). 

I ended up using Hydra to test and grade the cores. Hydra itself said all my cores could be run at -30 safely but I didnt want to do that due to leaving single thread performance on the table. The CO numbers I came up with were somewhat trial and error other than setting the best cores at -15. The score values on my 2nd best and 3rd best werent far off from the two best cores so having them set at -20 seems to work nicely for my setup. 

The Grading values looked Like this
C01 158 (Best Core as C07)
C02 150 (3rd best)
C03 145 (4th best)
C04 154 (2nd Best)
C05 133 (7th best)
C06 137 (6th best)
C07 158 (Same Score as C01 oddly HWINFO rates it as #1)
C08 141 (5th Best)


----------



## StevieRay2

SBuck said:


> From what I have been doing and some of it influenced by what others have written. I decided to take my best cores and set them at -15 (C0, C7). It seems to not really reduce my single core scores. I then set my 2nd and 3rd best core at -20 (C2, C4). The fourth best core set at -25 (C3). The other cores set at -30 (C5,C6, C8).
> 
> I ended up using Hydra to test and grade the cores. Hydra itself said all my cores could be run at -30 safely but I didnt want to do that due to leaving single thread performance on the table. The CO numbers I came up with were somewhat trial and error other than setting the best cores at -15. The score values on my 2nd best and 3rd best werent far off from the two best cores so having them set at -20 seems to work nicely for my setup.
> 
> The Grading values looked Like this
> C01 158 (Best Core as C07)
> C02 150 (3rd best)
> C03 145 (4th best)
> C04 154 (2nd Best)
> C05 133 (7th best)
> C06 137 (6th best)
> C07 158 (Same Score as C01 oddly HWINFO rates it as #1)
> C08 141 (5th Best)


Thanks, I'll check out Hydra.
Do you see any performance gains using that instead of all at -25 or so in gaming? Would doing something like this instead of just making all the cores -15 instead have better performance overall? just slightly higher temps?


----------



## Mad Pistol

Just got this sucker on Friday. The performance in games is crazy, but so is the heat!!! It hits 90C under full load, and that's on a 280mm AIO!


----------



## SBuck

StevieRay2 said:


> Thanks, I'll check out Hydra.
> Do you see any performance gains using that instead of all at -25 or so in gaming? Would doing something like this instead of just making all the cores -15 instead have better performance overall? just slightly higher temps?


I play allot of wow. With all cores at -30 I was noticing some weird lag issues happening people warping across the screen. I haven't seen that problem running it with no curve offset so It seemed to be something weird with the CO. So far the thermals seem pretty good. I can still get some mid to high 80's C when doing multi core CB23. The scores are better than what I was getting at stock. Also my OCCT scores are better but not the best. OCCT irks me a bit because I dont understand some of the metrics in the tests being used. One test will show my single core for one test being less than average and other single core tests being better than average. From what I can gather my 5800x3d is a mid to upper middle grade sample. Stock settings my 5800x3d gets about 14600 points multi core in cb23. With the CO settings I listed I get about 15176 on average for a multi core score in cb23.


----------



## StevieRay2

SBuck said:


> I play allot of wow. With all cores at -30 I was noticing some weird lag issues happening people warping across the screen. I haven't seen that problem running it with no curve offset so It seemed to be something weird with the CO. So far the thermals seem pretty good. I can still get some mid to high 80's C when doing multi core CB23. The scores are better than what I was getting at stock. Also my OCCT scores are better but not the best. OCCT irks me a bit because I dont understand some of the metrics in the tests being used. One test will show my single core for one test being less than average and other single core tests being better than average. From what I can gather my 5800x3d is a mid to upper middle grade sample. Stock settings my 5800x3d gets about 14600 points multi core in cb23. With the CO settings I listed I get about 15176 on average for a multi core score in cb23.


How do you find the order of the best cores can Hydra do that? Is it the boost test?


----------



## user55101

Anyone has any benchmark in game using different FCLK I am trying to see how 5800x3D scale with higher FCLK and if it is worth it to push pass 1900


also what can I do to improve my sample : -30 all cores, memory timing are pretty tight, c-state enabled, cppc enabled and preferred core disabled. best cinebench was 14900 and with a 3070 I get around 160 to 210 FPS in warzone 

Thank you


----------



## SBuck

StevieRay2 said:


> How do you find the order of the best cores can Hydra do that? Is it the boost test?


The diagnostic will run the testing.


----------



## StevieRay2

SBuck said:


> The diagnostic will run the testing.


Doesn't seem to run for me I get a lot of cmd_rejected_prerequisites 90 92 93 97 etc then says phoenix deactivated


----------



## Taraquin

user55101 said:


> Anyone has any benchmark in game using different FCLK I am trying to see how 5800x3D scale with higher FCLK and if it is worth it to push pass 1900
> 
> 
> also what can I do to improve my sample : -30 all cores, memory timing are pretty tight, c-state enabled, cppc enabled and preferred core disabled. best cinebench was 14900 and with a 3070 I get around 160 to 210 FPS in warzone
> 
> Thank you


Usually there is limited scaling beyond 1900 fclk. My 5600X does 4133\2066 WHEA19 free with PCIe 4.0 enabled, but above 1900 fclk I must increase SOC, IOD and VDD18 voltage. Above 2000 fclk scaling is terrible as the voltage req increases exponetially (2000 needs 1.11v SOC, 2066 needs 1.2v SOC for positive scaling). All these increases temps and eats into the powerbudget. I gain about 2% fps going from 3800cl15 to 4000cl16 in SOTTR and 2sec lower in dram calc test, linpack and yt-cruncher scores the same, but temps during load is about 5C higher, Cinebench23 is 2-300 points lower due to less powerbudget.


----------



## the_aeon

BNSoul said:


> Ejecute "boost tester" con overclocker [USUARIO=538195]@ManniX-ITA[/USUARIO] asegúrese de que no haya nada ejecutándose en segundo plano y use HWiNFO64 en modo de instantánea Zen, solo controle las velocidades del reloj, deshabilite todo lo demás y establezca un intervalo de sondeo de 510 ms .
> 
> El modo de instantánea Zen mostrará las velocidades reales registradas por la CPU y no un número genérico "4550".
> [/COTIZAR]
> ¿Dónde encuentro el modo instantáneo Zen en HWinfo? no veo donde activarlo.
> 
> Luego veo que tocáis el PPT y los demás valores de voltajes, solo para jugar tiene algún sentido tocarlos?


----------



## user55101

Taraquin said:


> Usually there is limited scaling beyond 1900 fclk. My 5600X does 4133\2066 WHEA19 free with PCIe 4.0 enabled, but above 1900 fclk I must increase SOC, IOD and VDD18 voltage. Above 2000 fclk scaling is terrible as the voltage req increases exponetially (2000 needs 1.11v SOC, 2066 needs 1.2v SOC for positive scaling). All these increases temps and eats into the powerbudget. I gain about 2% fps going from 3800cl15 to 4000cl16 in SOTTR and 2sec lower in dram calc test, linpack and yt-cruncher scores the same, but temps during load is about 5C higher, Cinebench23 is 2-300 points lower due to less powerbudget.


Thanks you saved me some time and headache I will leave it at 1900


----------



## StevieRay2

SBuck said:


> I play allot of wow. With all cores at -30 I was noticing some weird lag issues happening people warping across the screen. I haven't seen that problem running it with no curve offset so It seemed to be something weird with the CO. So far the thermals seem pretty good. I can still get some mid to high 80's C when doing multi core CB23. The scores are better than what I was getting at stock. Also my OCCT scores are better but not the best. OCCT irks me a bit because I dont understand some of the metrics in the tests being used. One test will show my single core for one test being less than average and other single core tests being better than average. From what I can gather my 5800x3d is a mid to upper middle grade sample. Stock settings my 5800x3d gets about 14600 points multi core in cb23. With the CO settings I listed I get about 15176 on average for a multi core score in cb23.


Hey again, what Hydra settings do you suggest I change so it runs properly? I see in the options it wanted to run 1300mv vcore? etc


----------



## BHS1975

Taraquin said:


> Usually there is limited scaling beyond 1900 fclk. My 5600X does 4133\2066 WHEA19 free with PCIe 4.0 enabled, but above 1900 fclk I must increase SOC, IOD and VDD18 voltage. Above 2000 fclk scaling is terrible as the voltage req increases exponetially (2000 needs 1.11v SOC, 2066 needs 1.2v SOC for positive scaling). All these increases temps and eats into the powerbudget. I gain about 2% fps going from 3800cl15 to 4000cl16 in SOTTR and 2sec lower in dram calc test, linpack and yt-cruncher scores the same, but temps during load is about 5C higher, Cinebench23 is 2-300 points lower due to less powerbudget.


Mine won't boot at 1900 but will run 1866 at 1v SOC so it would probably be the same if I could run 1900.


----------



## SBuck

StevieRay2 said:


> Hey again, what Hydra settings do you suggest I change so it runs properly? I see in the options it wanted to run 1300mv vcore? etc


I dont see very good results using Hydra to set my Curve Optimizations. I just recently with the release of Hydra 1.2D pro have only been able to get it to run the diagnostics. Earlier versions I would get the same error's you were seeing and not getting any results shown. 

There are a few things I have noticed the setting of the CO's is counterintuitive, - shows as positive and + shows as negative. Setting one way or another seems to not have a change so you cant determine easily what changes are being made.

I would like to see it improve but time will tell. The diagnostic was a bit disappointing due to it telling me my processor could do -30 for all cores safely. I suppose I was asking too much looking for the program to offer an objective opinion. What I did find useful was how it graded each core and put a metric on each one so I could easily quantify how close each one was.. This way I could adjust the Curve for each core to my liking and be able to play and tweak each core. Having this info I can experiment and adjust looking for improvements and or detriments in performance. So being able to see consistencies I can improve until there is no room for improvement in this particular piece of silicon.

So I used it to find values for each core. I am actually using Pbo Tuner 2 to set the CO's.


----------



## BNSoul

September came, temps considerably lower... but just +1 point Single-core and +2 points Multi-thread in Cinebench R23 at *stock 100.0 MHz* CPU, no BCLK overclock, no v-core offset (not an option in my BIOS), auto LLC, HW prefetchers on "AUTO" since last beta BIOS made the setting perform the same regardless of choice (bug?), additional RAM tweaks. Running with tested and proven PBO2 Tuner settings for benchmarks: *114 - 75 - 115 power limits / -30 all-core CO*

CBR23- *1509 SC*, *15453 MT*, previous best was 1508 - 15451... I think I give up until January'23 with new W11 scheduler improvements and AMD drivers, I really thought 15500 MT with a stock 5800X3D without a v-core offset could be a possibility with these temps but meh 😑












BHS1975 said:


> ine won't boot at 1900 but will run 1866 at 1v SOC so it would probably be the same if I could run 1900.


yeh the infamous "1900 hole" or "the black hole", some CPUs can't do exactly 1900 but no problem going above, I can boot and operate normally 1900 at 1v v-soc but I noticed really minor stuttering (almost unnoticeable) when playing past 150 fps, I e-mailed Gigabyte support and considering my GPU, multiple storage drives and other peripherals they suggested bumping soc from 1000 at least to 1050-1060, I did so and the system is now immaculate everywhere, AMD suggested straight away 1100 - 1200 for 1900 FCLK... lol !


----------



## StevieRay2

SBuck said:


> I dont see very good results using Hydra to set my Curve Optimizations. I just recently with the release of Hydra 1.2D pro have only been able to get it to run the diagnostics. Earlier versions I would get the same error's you were seeing and not getting any results shown.
> 
> There are a few things I have noticed the setting of the CO's is counterintuitive, - shows as positive and + shows as negative. Setting one way or another seems to not have a change so you cant determine easily what changes are being made.
> 
> I would like to see it improve but time will tell. The diagnostic was a bit disappointing due to it telling me my processor could do -30 for all cores safely. I suppose I was asking too much looking for the program to offer an objective opinion. What I did find useful was how it graded each core and put a metric on each one so I could easily quantify how close each one was.. This way I could adjust the Curve for each core to my liking and be able to play and tweak each core. Having this info I can experiment and adjust looking for improvements and or detriments in performance. So being able to see consistencies I can improve until there is no room for improvement in this particular piece of silicon.
> 
> So I used it to find values for each core. I am actually using Pbo Tuner 2 to set the CO's.


Oh so the 1.2D is the only one to support our 3D CPU? I guess it's behind a paywall currently? I guess I'll wait then


----------



## BNSoul

the_aeon said:


> Zen snapshot mode / power limits/ translated


*Spanish*: Puedes encontrar la opción que menciono si vas a configuración y luego entras en los ajustes principales, allí hay una opción que denominan "Snapshot mode". En cuanto a los límites en PBO2 Tuner sirven para que la CPU no malgaste vatios en una app si conoces los límites de la misma, como es el caso de Cinebench si utilizas más de 115 EDC lo único que genera es más calor y no aumenta rendimiento. De todos modos, lo principal es tener una buena curva de voltaje que te ofrezca el mismo rendimiento a temperaturas y consumos reducidos que los voltajes de serie (stock), normalmente aumenta el rendimiento y en el 5800X3D es casi imprescindible.

*English*: HWiNFO64 Zen snapshot mode can be enabled clicking on the ⚙ icon at the bottom and then on the main settings box. With regard to fiddling with power limits it serves to keep the CPU as much power efficient as possible, for instance in CBR23 (and R20 FWIW) an EDC of 115 yields 100% of the theoretical performance while reducing power usage and temps, you can use 116 and see the aforementioned variables increase with no apparent gains. Thus, if you know the limits of a certain app (trial and error and lots of monitoring/logging) you can set power limits accordingly and make it 100% efficient. A validated, decent voltage curve yielding 100% of performance (most of the times it results in considerable gains) at reduced temps is the first thing you'd want to get done on a 5800X3D.


----------



## StevieRay2

BNSoul said:


> *Spanish*: Puedes encontrar la opción que menciono si vas a configuración y luego entras en los ajustes principales, allí hay una opción que denominan "Snapshot mode". En cuanto a los límites en PBO2 Tuner sirven para que la CPU no malgaste vatios en una app si conoces los límites de la misma, como es el caso de Cinebench si utilizas más de 115 EDC lo único que genera es más calor y no aumenta rendimiento. De todos modos, lo principal es tener una buena curva de voltaje que te ofrezca el mismo rendimiento a temperaturas y consumos reducidos que los voltajes de serie (stock), normalmente aumenta el rendimiento y en el 5800X3D es casi imprescindible.
> 
> *English*: HWiNFO64 Zen snapshot mode can be enabled clicking on the ⚙ icon at the bottom and then on the main settings box. With regard to fiddling with power limits it serves to keep the CPU as much power efficient as possible, for instance in CBR23 (and R20 FWIW) an EDC of 115 yields 100% of the theoretical performance while reducing power usage and temps, you can use 116 and see the aforementioned variables increase with no apparent gains. Thus, if you know the limits of a certain app (trial and error and lots of monitoring/logging) you can set power limits accordingly and make it 100% efficient. A validated, decent voltage curve yielding 100% of performance (most of the times it results in considerable gains) at reduced temps is the first thing you'd want to get done on a 5800X3D.


For gaming would I have to test each game I play and limit just the EDC and compare the fps? Will TDC also play a part in the performance vs temps or just leave that one maxed?
As for CO to get the most performance in games is it best to leave them all at -25 or try and get he fastest cores closest to 0?


----------



## BNSoul

StevieRay2 said:


> For gaming would I have to test each game I play and limit just the EDC and compare the fps? Will TDC also play a part in the performance vs temps or just leave that one maxed?
> As for CO to get the most performance in games is it best to leave them all at -25 or try and get he fastest cores closest to 0?


When it comes to gaming setting the limits to something generic the likes of 122 82 124 should be enough for any game out there, the exception being if you are playing at 500+ fps then watch PPT TDC EDC usage in real time through HWiNFO64 and after a long session take note of average and maximum values, if the game did hit 100% in a certain value (oftentimes, not an outlier) then increase it accordingly.

With regard to per-core voltage adjusting you know that when multiple cores are being used the voltage applied to all of them is the lowest number in the optimization curve, so if you have -15 -30 -15 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 then all cores will be running at -15. The reason for not applying -30 to best cores straight away is just stability, these cores already run on reduced voltage compared to the rest. However, if you take the time to properly and fully validate a -30 all-core curve then there's no reason whatsoever to not use it in most situations except some obvious single-thread apps and games. Personally I use 114 75 115 -30 all core for desktop usage and most benchmarks with slight variations depending on the app. For gaming I use 122 82 124 to ensure the game has plenty of power room in case of power usage spikes (loading / streaming, real time shader compiling etc) and a voltage curve of -19(best core) -27 -19(2nd best) -24 -25 -24 -28 -29 after a lot of trial and error trying to get the maximum boost from each core in a a wide range of different scenarios. Of course if it's an old game or a lightweight one then it's straight away -30 all-core. The purpose of the custom curve is to extract the last drop of performance.

Hope this helped!


----------



## StevieRay2

BNSoul said:


> When it comes to gaming setting the limits to something generic the likes of 122 82 124 should be enough for any game out there, the exception being if you are playing at 500+ fps then watch PPT TDC EDC usage in real time through HWiNFO64 and after a long session take note of average and maximum values, if the game did hit 100% in a certain value (oftentimes, not an outlier) then increase it accordingly.
> 
> With regard to per-core voltage adjusting you know that when multiple cores are being used the voltage applied to all of them is the lowest number in the optimization curve, so if you have -15 -30 -15 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 then all cores will be running at -15. The reason for not applying -30 to best cores straight away is just stability, these cores already run on reduced voltage compared to the rest. However, if you take the time to properly and fully validate a -30 all-core curve then there's no reason whatsoever to not use it in most situations except some obvious single-thread apps and games. Personally I use 114 75 115 -30 all core for desktop usage and most benchmarks with slight variations depending on the app. For gaming I use 122 82 124 to ensure the game has plenty of power room in case of power usage spikes (loading / streaming, real time shader compiling etc) and a voltage curve of -19(best core) -27 -19(2nd best) -24 -25 -24 -28 -29 after a lot of trial and error trying to get the maximum boost from each core in a a wide range of different scenarios. Of course if it's an old game or a lightweight one then it's straight away -30 all-core. The purpose of the custom curve is to extract the last drop of performance.
> 
> Hope this helped!


Thanks, right now I have -25 on all cores and tested for a few hours with ycruncher, never any issues or crashes yet, would lowering my 2 best cores to lets say -15 give me any sort of performance boost in games at all or boost more often? or just leave it all -25?


----------



## BNSoul

StevieRay2 said:


> Thanks, right now I have -25 on all cores and tested for a few hours with ycruncher, never any issues or crashes yet, would lowering my 2 best cores to lets say -15 give me any sort of performance boost in games at all or boost more often? or just leave it all -25?


If you have tested and validated that -25 then there's no reason to not use it. You can use boost tester by Mannix or any other tool to check the different speeds at which cores boost with different voltages, but do mind that the cores are not going to boost past 4450 when multiple of them are simultaneously in use so in this case going -30 is best unless some parts of the app are essentially single threaded, in this scenario a custom curve would make more sense.


----------



## Blameless

To get all cores to request the same voltage (within ~3mV) on my sample I need -18 -18 -25 -25 -24 -30 -26 -27.

However, cores absolutely can run at different voltages and while running straight -30s on this sample results in the same core input voltage (because the highest voltage core does result in the same VID request), the indivdual cores all run at lower voltages (that's what the per core LDO is for), except for that sole -30 CO, and most cores are slightly cooler.










Since straight -30 CO is stable on my part, results in only a 55mV differential (which is half that of some of my stock Zen 3 parts) between highest and lowest voltage cores at full load, and is slightly cooler/less power hungry, it's the best option for my sample.


----------



## Taraquin

BHS1975 said:


> Mine won't boot at 1900 but will run 1866 at 1v SOC so it would probably be the same if I could run 1900.


Keep 1866 then, my advice: find lowest working and stable SOC, IOD, CCD, VDDP and VDD18 (if available), this will reduce temp and powerconsumption.

On my setup running stock/auto at 3800 I get:
SOC 1.19V
IOD 1.05V
CCD 1.05V
VDDP 1.0V
VDD18 1.8V

Tuned:
SOC 1.06V
IOD 0.98V
CCD 0.8V
VDDP 0.8V
VDD18 1.6V

This lowered IO-die usage by over 5W and redyced temps at load by several degrees and gave cores more powerbudget.


----------



## user55101

Taraquin said:


> Keep 1866 then, my advice: find lowest working and stable SOC, IOD, CCD, VDDP and VDD18 (if available), this will reduce temp and powerconsumption.
> 
> On my setup running stock/auto at 3800 I get:
> SOC 1.19V
> IOD 1.05V
> CCD 1.05V
> VDDP 1.0V
> VDD18 1.8V
> 
> Tuned:
> SOC 1.06V
> IOD 0.98V
> CCD 0.8V
> VDDP 0.8V
> VDD18 1.6V
> 
> This lowered IO-die usage by over 5W and redyced temps at load by several degrees and gave cores more powerbudget.


lowering my voltage was huge for me too... I could not understand how people had 70 degree underload while I had 85-90 with -30 curve... turn out my memory was stable at 1900 with much lower voltage... started with 1.2 SOC


----------



## BNSoul

Taraquin said:


> Keep 1866 then, my advice: find lowest working and stable SOC, IOD, CCD, VDDP and VDD18 (if available), this will reduce temp and powerconsumption.
> 
> On my setup running stock/auto at 3800 I get:
> SOC 1.19V
> IOD 1.05V
> CCD 1.05V
> VDDP 1.0V
> VDD18 1.8V
> 
> Tuned:
> SOC 1.06V
> IOD 0.98V
> CCD 0.8V
> VDDP 0.8V
> VDD18 1.6V
> 
> This lowered IO-die usage by over 5W and redyced temps at load by several degrees and gave cores more powerbudget.


Thank you so much for this post. I've been down that road (tweaking my crappy Hynix D-die 3600 MT/S DR 16-19-19-39 into a 3800 MT/S kit) and I was wondering if you could have a quick look at my timings and voltages in case there's an obvious flaw that I'm not seeing. Thanks a lot in advance for your valuable input. The system is fully stable has passed all the usual tests at least twice for 48 hours.

Screenshot:









Aida64: before I started "tuning" I had barely 50k read speed, 28k write and 49k copy,
Also, latency was a whooping 70+ ns....


----------



## Taraquin

BNSoul said:


> Thank you so much for this post. I've been down that road (tweaking my crappy Hynix D-die 3600 MT/S DR 16-19-19-39 into a 3800 MT/S kit) and I was wondering if you could have a quick look at my timings and voltages in case there's an obvious flaw that I'm not seeing. Thanks a lot in advance for your valuable input. The system is fully stable has passed all the usual tests at least twice for 48 hours.
> 
> Screenshot:
> View attachment 2571331
> 
> 
> Aida64: before I started "tuning" I had barely 50k read speed, 28k write and 49k copy,
> Also, latency was a whooping 70+ ns....
> 
> View attachment 2571332


Most looks good. I would try RC 55 (RAS+RP=RC), or lower RAS and RC each by 1 until unstable. Hynix D usually can do below 55 RC easy at 3800.

Get your RP to 6, RRDL may do 4, RFC may do 480, except for that looks great. You can try reducing voltages a bit and see how that goes after finding stable timings.


----------



## BNSoul

Taraquin said:


> Most looks good. I would try RC 55 (RAS+RP=RC), or lower RAS and RC each by 1 until unstable. Hynix D usually can do below 55 RC easy at 3800.
> 
> Get your RP to 6, RRDL may do 4, RFC may do 480, except for that looks great. You can try reducing voltages a bit and see how that goes after finding stable timings.


thanks a lot mate! just one quick question, by "get RP to 6" you mean tRTP? as in the formula tCWL - tCL + tRTP ? 

thanks again!


----------



## Taraquin

BNSoul said:


> thanks a lot mate! just one quick question, by "get RP to 6" you mean tRTP? as in the formula tCWL - tCL + tRTP ?
> 
> thanks again!


Sorry, meant RTP. RTP x 2 = WR.


----------



## BNSoul

Taraquin said:


> Most looks good. I would try RC 55 (RAS+RP=RC), or lower RAS and RC each by 1 until unstable. Hynix D usually can do below 55 RC easy at 3800.
> 
> Get your RP to 6, RRDL may do 4, RFC may do 480, except for that looks great. You can try reducing voltages a bit and see how that goes after finding stable timings.


well, I started with tRC and tRTP first since they're the easy part and I left the PC Y-crunching FFT's and running Core Cycler for a couple of hours, then just for added stability's sake I did run R20 and R23... and got my best results till this date Even if they're not memory sensitive at all... so weird.

no overclock, no v-core offset, LLC auto, BCLK 100.0 MHz, *R20 SC 587 MT 5996* (practically 6000?)











no overclock, no v-core offset, LLC auto, BCLK 100.0 MHz,* R23 SC 1509 MT 15466* (will I ever get to 15500?)










I will call this the magic of tRTP 6


----------



## Taraquin

BNSoul said:


> well, I started with tRC and tRP first since they're the easy part and I left the PC Y-crunching FFT's and running Core Cycler for a couple of hours, then just for added stability's sake I did run R20 and R23... and got my best results till this date Even if they're not memory sensitive at all... so weird.
> 
> no overclock, no v-core offset, LLC auto, BCLK 100.0 MHz, *R20 SC 587 MT 5996* (practically 6000?)
> 
> View attachment 2571365
> 
> 
> 
> no overclock, no v-core offset, LLC auto, BCLK 100.0 MHz,* R23 SC 1509 MT 15466* (will I ever get to 15500?)
> 
> View attachment 2571366
> 
> 
> I will call this the magic of tRP 6


Cinebench hardly scales with ram, y-cruncher, linpack etc on the other hand


----------



## BNSoul

anyone else willing to benchmark option 7 (2,500,000,000 pi) on Y-Cruncher benchmark? it takes 1 and a half minute more or less, let's see that multicore efficiency and the internal memory controller health! My dirty test: stock 5800X3D BCLK 100.0 MHz power limits: 114w - 75 - 115, -30 all-core, low tier 3800MT/S RAM. Result: 98-ish seconds.


----------



## bmagnien

BNSoul said:


> anyone else willing to benchmark option 7 (2,500,000,000 pi) on Y-Cruncher benchmark? it takes 1 and a half minute more or less, let's see that multicore efficiency and the internal memory controller health! My dirty test: stock 5800X3D BCLK 100.0 MHz power limits: 114w - 75 - 115, -30 all-core, low tier 3800MT/S RAM. Result: 98-ish seconds.


-30 all core, 100.1 seconds


----------



## MrHoof

Limits default.


----------



## bmagnien

MrHoof said:


> Limits default.


Yah wide open limits improved score. Think you're performing better due to GDM disabled and slightly better secondary timings. Any advice for getting GDM to boot or other improvements you would make to my timings?


----------



## MrHoof

bmagnien said:


> Yah wide open limits improved score. Think you're performing better due to GDM disabled and slightly better secondary timings. Any advice for getting GDM to boot?
> 
> View attachment 2571468


Since u have the same board try my ProcODT/RTT/CAD settings.

edit : Also tWRRD to 3 else i get no boot.


----------



## BNSoul

Great results there, I think this benchmark scales nicely with tight RAM timings! Also, I didn't know there was a noticeable difference past PPT 114w, guess I'll have to try and see for myself. Those stock limits match the performance of a regular 5800X despite the clock speed difference 👍


----------



## bmagnien

MrHoof said:


> Since u have the same board try my ProcODT/RTT/CAD settings.
> 
> edit : Also tWRRD to 3 else i get no boot.


No dice. Getting GMD disabled to boot has been the bane of my existence with mem tweaking.


----------



## MrHoof

bmagnien said:


> No dice. Getting GMD disabled to boot has been the bane of my existence with mem tweaking.


I dont see anything else that could help or would make a problem for me to boot, I need 1.55v tho for my profile.


----------



## BCB57

bmagnien said:


> -30 all core, 100.1 seconds
> 
> View attachment 2571466


My results are quite similar to yours and others, but what's with that warning in red text? Anyone else seeing this? PPT 110 / TDC 85 / EDC 120.


----------



## Luggage

BNSoul said:


> Great results there, I think this benchmark scales nicely with tight RAM timings! Also, I didn't know there was a noticeable difference past PPT 114w, guess I'll have to try and see for myself. Those stock limits match the performance of a regular 5800X despite the clock speed difference 👍


YC loves bandwidth more than latency, check the memory settings for the hwbot top list. y-cruncher - Pi-2.5b overclocking records @ HWBOT


----------



## SBuck

Stock ppt, tdc, edc.. My cb23 scores are reduced pretty substantially if I lower those values.
Here is my run. 96.35 seconds.


----------



## Taraquin

bmagnien said:


> No dice. Getting GMD disabled to boot has been the bane of my existence with mem tweaking.


Even with 2T?


----------



## AXi0M

Y-cruncher really does like bandwidth more than latency however small, 3866CL14. would probably be better if it wasn't on a 2year old windows 10 install.


----------



## spajdr

BCB57 said:


> My results are quite similar to yours and others, but what's with that warning in red text? Anyone else seeing this? PPT 110 / TDC 85 / EDC 120.
> View attachment 2571497


I think you need to run CMD window as administrator.


----------



## bmagnien

Taraquin said:


> Even with 2T?


It’s my understanding the 1T GDM On is better then 2T GDM Off so I’ve honestly never tried it. I did get 1T GDM On to boot for the first time ever yesterday with @MrHoof ‘s recommendation of trrd = 3 but it threw tons of errors in TM5 and even after loosening secondary’s/tertiaries and bumping dram I couldn’t get it stable, so just sticking with what I originally had for now.


----------



## BCB57

SBuck said:


> Stock ppt, tdc, edc.. My cb23 scores are reduced pretty substantially if I lower those values.
> Here is my run. 96.35 seconds.
> View attachment 2571507


Great score, but those temps are kind of scary. Shouldn't your system be thermal throttling?


----------



## BCB57

spajdr said:


> I think you need to run CMD window as administrator.


Thanks, but I tried that and no difference. Did some Googling, and it seems like I would need to install SQL Server and change some arcane (to me) system settings. Fiddled around a bit but ultimately pushed the "too hard" button and decided to leave well enough alone.


----------



## SBuck

BCB57 said:


> Great score, but those temps are kind of scary. Shouldn't your system be thermal throttling?


Not worried about the thermals for y-cruncher. I never break past 85c on cb23. And for gaming the system never goes past 68c. Other than running the y-cruncher for kicks the thermals are a non issue for me due to never running it ever. Put it this way if it wasnt posted to run it and post the results I would have never run it at all.


----------



## Taraquin

bmagnien said:


> It’s my understanding the 1T GDM On is better then 2T GDM Off so I’ve honestly never tried it. I did get 1T GDM On to boot for the first time ever yesterday with @MrHoof ‘s recommendation of trrd = 3 but it threw tons of errors in TM5 and even after loosening secondary’s/tertiaries and bumping dram I couldn’t get it stable, so just sticking with what I originally had for now.


It can be, but often not. GDM nasks some flaws, I have seen up to 5% speedboost with same timings just turning off GDM and setting 2T sometimes.


----------



## StevieRay2

Does a negative CO get unstable after years of use? or is that only when you raise the voltage like an OC?


----------



## BCB57

SBuck said:


> Not worried about the thermals for y-cruncher. I never break past 85c on cb23. And for gaming the system never goes past 68c. Other than running the y-cruncher for kicks the thermals are a non issue for me due to never running it ever. Put it this way if it wasnt posted to run it and post the results I would have never run it at all.


Understood. I asked because in my case (also noted by others) performance drops off as CPU temp exceeds 80C. You're hitting 90s in the benchmark with evidently great performance, and HWINFO64 says "no" for thermal throttling. I wondered whether your motherboard is somehow circumventing the protective throttling that normally occurs (if that's even possible?). 

CB23 is another example where I've had to manipulate negative voltage offset and PPT ceiling to keep the CPU at 80 or below. With stock settings, that benchmark will go great guns for the first 10 seconds or so, but then it will throttle and ultimately deliver a lower score than I can achieve with reduced voltage and power.


----------



## AXi0M

StevieRay2 said:


> Does a negative CO get unstable after years of use? or is that only when you raise the voltage like an OC?


I doubt it will loose stability, but if it does it probably takes so long that you've already upgraded your cpu twice by then.


----------



## BNSoul

I've found this 5800X3D result here on the website, notice to what lengths you'd need to go just to complete the test in the 92-93s range...









Look at the RAM settings 😬

Y-Cruncher is just brutal with no power limits in place, I wouldn't dare trying with anything above 114w 75 TDC 115 EDC and -30 all-core so a total computation time in the 97-100 range with said settings and 3800MT/s DDR4 looks really good to me. I've seen Intel DDR5 builds (and crazy 5950X setups) take as low as 64-66 seconds to complete the test with 90ºC+ temps and power draw beyond 230w.

One thing is certain here, if you pass the ultimate Y-Cruncher pi computation test then both your RAM settings and voltage curve will pass anything. Not the first time one of my college mates would brag about some top tier RAM overclocking being "rock solid" just to hard crash Y-Cruncher a couple of seconds into the test 😅


----------



## SBuck

BCB57 said:


> Understood. I asked because in my case (also noted by others) performance drops off as CPU temp exceeds 80C. You're hitting 90s in the benchmark with evidently great performance, and HWINFO64 says "no" for thermal throttling. I wondered whether your motherboard is somehow circumventing the protective throttling that normally occurs (if that's even possible?).
> 
> CB23 is another example where I've had to manipulate negative voltage offset and PPT ceiling to keep the CPU at 80 or below. With stock settings, that benchmark will go great guns for the first 10 seconds or so, but then it will throttle and ultimately deliver a lower score than I can achieve with reduced voltage and power.


I ended up with the negative curve offset I am currently using to keep the all core run of CB23 from going straight to 90 degrees. Depending on the negative curve being used I could still get close currently running best cores at -20 and progressively lower. -20 -20 -27 -20 -30 -30 -20 -30. . Just running the CO like this has tamed the thermals to be about 80-83c on an all core run in CB23.

I did end up buying a new motherboard so I could try and get the most out of the 5800x3d but I screwed up and bought the wrong mobo. I still have my other mobo it is a Gigabyte x570 aorus master rev1. The quality of the gigagabyte board compared to the Asus x570 CHDH8 is so much better. The quality control, the fit and finish, quite a few things in the bios on the gigabyte board are much better like the fan controls right in the bios can name the fans connected to the specific ports can even edit location of the fans. 

The RGB control in the bios is superior in the bios to the point you don't even need a software in the OS, you can set the Red Green Blue values within the bios. There are allot of things that are much better in and on the Gigabyte board. Dollar per dollar it is hard to beat the x570 aorus master rev 1. Even the antennae for the gigabyte board is a quality piece so much so I am using it with the Asus board instead of the one that came with the CHDH8. Put it this way the CHDH8 out of the box had a loose clip under the IO shield that wasn't secured properly and needed to be snapped back into place. 

Right out of the box if in hand I turned the Asus motherboard 90 degree's on it's side I would hear a clink repeatedly It almost sounded like a loose screw rattling around in there. I used my bore-scope to locate the source of the sound. Once I located what it was I removed the inner plastic part of the IO shield and secured the clip by snapping it back on. For what the CHDH8 cost no way I should be doing that. I was super close to sending it back and not even consider using it.

The only place where the Asus board is better than the gigabyte board is the bios updates of getting the Agesa's sooner. Other than that I wouldn't find value in buying the Asus board. I really meant to buy the ch8-Extreme board. Only thing is the quality of the 5800x3d silicon I am running is not great and compared to others in this thread proved how lack luster it really is. I wouldn't be convinced I could squeeze anymore performance out of this processor even if I did purchase the extreme motherboard like I intended.


----------



## SBuck

BNSoul said:


> I've found this 5800X3D result here on the website, notice to what lengths you'd need to go just to complete the test in the 92-93s range...
> View attachment 2571676
> 
> 
> Look at the RAM settings 😬
> 
> Y-Cruncher is just brutal with no power limits in place, I wouldn't dare trying with anything above 114w 75 TDC 115 EDC and -30 all-core so a total computation time in the 97-100 range with said settings and 3800MT/s DDR4 looks really good to me. I've seen Intel DDR5 builds (and crazy 5950X setups) take as low as 64-66 seconds to complete the test with 90ºC+ temps and power draw beyond 230w.
> 
> One thing is certain here, if you pass the ultimate Y-Cruncher pi computation test then both your RAM settings and voltage curve will pass anything. Not the first time one of my college mates would brag about some top tier RAM overclocking being "rock solid" just to hard crash Y-Cruncher a couple of seconds into the test 😅


Those temps don't look like everyday driver material. I could be wrong but those thermals look like a machine being used with LN2. 
If that is a water setup. I would be willing to start buying parts.Very sceptical as to what cooling being used to achieve those clocks and have those low thermals.


----------



## BNSoul

SBuck said:


> Those temps don't look like everyday driver material. I could be wrong but those thermals look like a machine being used with LN2.
> If that is a water setup. I would be willing to start buying parts.Very sceptical as to what cooling being used to achieve those clocks and have those low thermals.


Yes I do believe the same, the CPU was literally "frozen" in place, there's no other way to achieve such temps with open power limits and such voltages. That's why I say it's more impressive to me when the CPU completes the test in 97-100 seconds on the usual cooling solutions while being power restricted with classic efficiency 114w-75-115 settings and using slower RAM. You need a good CPU sample capable of -30 all-core though to avoid errors/crashing, it's my understanding that this test feeds your best cores with way too low voltage so achieving anywhere from -25 to -30 on them is already great. 

Why do you think you got yourself an average CPU sample though??


----------



## Luggage

SBuck said:


> Those temps don't look like everyday driver material. I could be wrong but those thermals look like a machine being used with LN2.
> If that is a water setup. I would be willing to start buying parts.Very sceptical as to what cooling being used to achieve those clocks and have those low thermals.


Looks like DOMs result? He has posted his cooling solution earlier 5800X3D Owners


----------



## SBuck

BNSoul said:


> Yes I do believe the same, the CPU was literally "frozen" in place, there's no other way to achieve such temps with open power limits and such voltages. That's why I say it's more impressive to me when the CPU completes the test in 97-100 seconds on the usual cooling solutions while being power restricted with classic efficiency 114w-75-115 settings and using slower RAM. You need a good CPU sample capable of -30 all-core though to avoid errors/crashing, it's my understanding that this test feeds your best cores with way too low voltage so achieving anywhere from -25 to -30 on them is already great.
> 
> Why do you think you got yourself an average CPU sample though??


Compared to the scores you are achieving on your processor they just aren't that great. At stock no CO or anything CB23 all core is about 14.5k to 14.6k. Doing all sorts of tweaking with negative CO the best I can achieve in CB23 is 1487-1497 single core. All core is 15090 to 15176. If I try to edit the PPT, TDC, EDC and set them lower then the scores are dropped back into the 14k range on CB23.

I suppose I could pull it apart and clean the paste off the processor and see the revision. I remember reading something early on about some theory's of some shipment revisions being better. Not sure or cant remember if the shipment revision with the build date's proved to be an accurate theory. I only mention that because I would consider going to the closest microcenter and see what date build's they have on hand are are selling.


----------



## BNSoul

SBuck said:


> I suppose I could pull it apart and clean the paste off the processor and see the revision. I remember reading something early on about some theory's of some shipment revisions being better. Not sure or cant remember if the shipment revision with the build date's proved to be an accurate theory. I only mention that because I would consider going to the closest microcenter and see what date build's they have on hand are are selling.


The best samples I've tested are all early production 2207PGS, hard to find nowadays. I got one from a reviewer and I bought another for my old man who uses engineering/physics simulation apps on Linux, I also got a third one for my sister but she is more than happy with her 5800X so this one is still sealed, I attached a photo in this very comment. Back at the computer lab I tested a 2209 from a friend that wouldn't do -30 all-core and also some recent samples that fail to boot at exact 1900 FCLK (this bug happens across the entire Zen 3 family) and/or can't go -30 on best cores. Every 2207 sample I've tried had rock solid FCLK with noticeable reduced temps under full load and high boost speeds (as a direct consequence). Maybe it's just anecdotal evidence but at least 7 of the X3D CPUs back at the lab are 2207PGS and they all behave flawlessly. The real world performance difference while gaming should be less than 0.5% though, it's just temps and synthetic benchmarks that are skewed towards the best samples.

On the other hand I've never seen the issue with regard to the power limits, so you say the CPU won't get reduced temps at 114-75-115?? One thing would be getting clock stretching but for sure limiting the wattage R23 tries to sip should mitigate temperature spikes.

Also, if you can do -30 all-core even in Y-Cruncher and 1900 FCLK with boost speeds past 4545 and occasionally hitting the 4550 real speed limit (monitored through HWiNFO64 -Zen snapshot mode- since the default mode shows everything at 4550 even if the actual speed was way lower) then it's a great sample and maybe the power limits issue is more like a BIOS thing? Or perhaps something is not going along with PBO2 Tuner? Was it behaving the same in the different motherboards you tried? What is your single core Geekbench 5 score btw?


----------



## Blameless

bmagnien said:


> It’s my understanding the 1T GDM On is better then 2T GDM Off so I’ve honestly never tried it.


Better in what way?

GDM is always "1T" because commands can only be issued every other cycle. At otherwise identical timings, it cannot be faster than GDM Off T2, and further more can only utilize even values for several parameters. The effective CR is two-cycles (2T), or worse.

It's advantage is that some memory can take appreciably tighter timings or clock meaningfully higher with GDM enabled. Some of my cheap Hynix stuff is faster with GDM because I can run SCL 4 rather than 5, or run tighter tRP and rRDWR, but most of my better binned memory is faster with GDM disabled.



SBuck said:


> I could be wrong but those thermals look like a machine being used with LN2.
> If that is a water setup. I would be willing to start buying parts.Very sceptical as to what cooling being used to achieve those clocks and have those low thermals.


It looks like HWiNFO wasn't opened until the test was finished, which makes sense, as HWiNFO hurts results of almost any benchmark if left running.

Idle temps look like chilled water at most, or someone setting their radiator next to a window during cold weather...maybe just cool ambients in general and an external rad.



BNSoul said:


> That's why I say it's more impressive to me when the CPU completes the test in 97-100 seconds on the usual cooling solutions while being power restricted with classic efficiency 114w-75-115 settings and using slower RAM. You need a good CPU sample capable of -30 all-core though to avoid errors/crashing, it's my understanding that this test feeds your best cores with way too low voltage so achieving anywhere from -25 to -30 on them is already great.


My daily setup, air-cooled (NH-U12A), in a SFF case gets 95.6 seconds with my normal 3800MT/s tuned B-die settings, at stock power limits in a 24C ambient environment.

At the voltages seen in y-cruncher I am not remotely worried about temps or degradation. Even with the LCLK bug knocking out 5-10C of temp throttling (which might cut lifespan of a part in half) the stock TDC/EDC limits are still in place and it would probably take years of 24/7 y-cruncher load to do meaningful damage, especially at significant negative CO.

_Edit:_ I'm actually seeing higher peak voltages with significant negative CO than with them at 0 in y-cruncher, probably because it's able to to boost ~350MHz higher with the negatives. Regardless, ~1.17v peak is still pretty low.


----------



## SBuck

BNSoul said:


> View attachment 2571680
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The best samples I've tested are all early production 2207PGS, hard to find nowadays. I got one from a reviewer and I bought another for my old man who uses engineering/physics simulation apps on Linux, I also got a third one for my sister but she is more than happy with her 5800X so this one is still sealed, I attached a photo in this very comment. Back at the computer lab I tested a 2209 from a friend that wouldn't do -30 all-core and also some recent samples that fail to boot at exact 1900 FCLK (this bug happens across the entire Zen 3 family) and/or can't go -30 on best cores. Every 2207 sample I've tried had rock solid FCLK with noticeable reduced temps under full load and high boost speeds (as a direct consequence). Maybe it's just anecdotal evidence but at least 7 of the X3D CPUs back at the lab are 2207PGS and they all behave flawlessly. The real world performance difference while gaming should be less than 0.5% though, it's just temps and synthetic benchmarks that are skewed towards the best samples.
> 
> On the other hand I've never seen the issue with regard to the power limits, so you say the CPU won't get reduced temps at 114-75-115?? One thing would be getting clock stretching but for sure limiting the wattage R23 tries to sip should mitigate temperature spikes.
> 
> Also, if you can do -30 all-core even in Y-Cruncher and 1900 FCLK with boost speeds past 4545 and occasionally hitting the 4550 real speed limit (monitored through HWiNFO64 -Zen snapshot mode- since the default mode shows everything at 4550 even if the actual speed was way lower) then it's a great sample and maybe the power limits issue is more like a BIOS thing? Or perhaps something is not going along with PBO2 Tuner? Was it behaving the same in the different motherboards you tried? What is your single core Geekbench 5 score btw?


I will look into the geekbench scores. I haven‘t run that benchmark before so will look into it. Far as the performance plummet by changing the power values in pbo tuner 2. I will checkout a few of the different versions of it. Pretty sure I still have all the different versions saved. If not I remember where to get them.

Thank you for the info i will look into this a little more clearly with the information you provided.


----------



## SBuck

Using unedited stock settings Geekbench 5 comes up with a score of 1645 single core and multicore of 11804

Using my CO -20 -20 -27 -20 -30 -30 -20 -30 without power editing ppt, tdc , edc, I get single core of 1644 Multicore of 12110

Using the same curve and the 114-75-115 settings the test results are. single core 1649 multicore 12128

Normally I don't load the power values into the pbotuner 2 GUI. I put them in a bat file run as admin in a command line. Going to reboot and see if that could be the problem I am seeing.


----------



## BHS1975

BNSoul said:


> View attachment 2571680
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The best samples I've tested are all early production 2207PGS, hard to find nowadays. I got one from a reviewer and I bought another for my old man who uses engineering/physics simulation apps on Linux, I also got a third one for my sister but she is more than happy with her 5800X so this one is still sealed, I attached a photo in this very comment. Back at the computer lab I tested a 2209 from a friend that wouldn't do -30 all-core and also some recent samples that fail to boot at exact 1900 FCLK (this bug happens across the entire Zen 3 family) and/or can't go -30 on best cores. Every 2207 sample I've tried had rock solid FCLK with noticeable reduced temps under full load and high boost speeds (as a direct consequence). Maybe it's just anecdotal evidence but at least 7 of the X3D CPUs back at the lab are 2207PGS and they all behave flawlessly. The real world performance difference while gaming should be less than 0.5% though, it's just temps and synthetic benchmarks that are skewed towards the best samples.
> 
> On the other hand I've never seen the issue with regard to the power limits, so you say the CPU won't get reduced temps at 114-75-115?? One thing would be getting clock stretching but for sure limiting the wattage R23 tries to sip should mitigate temperature spikes.
> 
> Also, if you can do -30 all-core even in Y-Cruncher and 1900 FCLK with boost speeds past 4545 and occasionally hitting the 4550 real speed limit (monitored through HWiNFO64 -Zen snapshot mode- since the default mode shows everything at 4550 even if the actual speed was way lower) then it's a great sample and maybe the power limits issue is more like a BIOS thing? Or perhaps something is not going along with PBO2 Tuner? Was it behaving the same in the different motherboards you tried? What is your single core Geekbench 5 score btw?


You need to open that bad boy and test it out and give it to me if it's a platinum sample lol. I'm guessing mine has to be a 2207 as I bought it on release day.


----------



## StevieRay2

BNSoul said:


> View attachment 2571680
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The best samples I've tested are all early production 2207PGS, hard to find nowadays. I got one from a reviewer and I bought another for my old man who uses engineering/physics simulation apps on Linux, I also got a third one for my sister but she is more than happy with her 5800X so this one is still sealed, I attached a photo in this very comment. Back at the computer lab I tested a 2209 from a friend that wouldn't do -30 all-core and also some recent samples that fail to boot at exact 1900 FCLK (this bug happens across the entire Zen 3 family) and/or can't go -30 on best cores. Every 2207 sample I've tried had rock solid FCLK with noticeable reduced temps under full load and high boost speeds (as a direct consequence). Maybe it's just anecdotal evidence but at least 7 of the X3D CPUs back at the lab are 2207PGS and they all behave flawlessly. The real world performance difference while gaming should be less than 0.5% though, it's just temps and synthetic benchmarks that are skewed towards the best samples.
> 
> On the other hand I've never seen the issue with regard to the power limits, so you say the CPU won't get reduced temps at 114-75-115?? One thing would be getting clock stretching but for sure limiting the wattage R23 tries to sip should mitigate temperature spikes.
> 
> Also, if you can do -30 all-core even in Y-Cruncher and 1900 FCLK with boost speeds past 4545 and occasionally hitting the 4550 real speed limit (monitored through HWiNFO64 -Zen snapshot mode- since the default mode shows everything at 4550 even if the actual speed was way lower) then it's a great sample and maybe the power limits issue is more like a BIOS thing? Or perhaps something is not going along with PBO2 Tuner? Was it behaving the same in the different motherboards you tried? What is your single core Geekbench 5 score btw?


When you guys look at your clocks in Hwinfo do you mainly just look at core clocks or the effective core clocks when testing the boost? Seems my effective doesn't get as high as core clock boost, using -25 all core and 125 80 125 which doesn't seem to do much at all in gaming probably because I never hit 100% on any.


----------



## SBuck

BNSoul said:


> View attachment 2571680
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The best samples I've tested are all early production 2207PGS, hard to find nowadays. I got one from a reviewer and I bought another for my old man who uses engineering/physics simulation apps on Linux, I also got a third one for my sister but she is more than happy with her 5800X so this one is still sealed, I attached a photo in this very comment. Back at the computer lab I tested a 2209 from a friend that wouldn't do -30 all-core and also some recent samples that fail to boot at exact 1900 FCLK (this bug happens across the entire Zen 3 family) and/or can't go -30 on best cores. Every 2207 sample I've tried had rock solid FCLK with noticeable reduced temps under full load and high boost speeds (as a direct consequence). Maybe it's just anecdotal evidence but at least 7 of the X3D CPUs back at the lab are 2207PGS and they all behave flawlessly. The real world performance difference while gaming should be less than 0.5% though, it's just temps and synthetic benchmarks that are skewed towards the best samples.
> 
> On the other hand I've never seen the issue with regard to the power limits, so you say the CPU won't get reduced temps at 114-75-115?? One thing would be getting clock stretching but for sure limiting the wattage R23 tries to sip should mitigate temperature spikes.
> 
> Also, if you can do -30 all-core even in Y-Cruncher and 1900 FCLK with boost speeds past 4545 and occasionally hitting the 4550 real speed limit (monitored through HWiNFO64 -Zen snapshot mode- since the default mode shows everything at 4550 even if the actual speed was way lower) then it's a great sample and maybe the power limits issue is more like a BIOS thing? Or perhaps something is not going along with PBO2 Tuner? Was it behaving the same in the different motherboards you tried? What is your single core Geekbench 5 score btw?


Cleaned mine off and it is a (BR 2208 PGS)







Here is a pic of the case. If they sill made this monster I would buy a second one. 






Thermal Take x9. Love how this thing breaks down and as easily accessible similar to a workbench.


----------



## robolee

Mine is 2218. Got myself a Arctic LF 2 AIO 280mm. Temp is slightly better.


----------



## BNSoul

StevieRay2 said:


> When you guys look at your clocks in Hwinfo do you mainly just look at core clocks or the effective core clocks when testing the boost? Seems my effective doesn't get as high as core clock boost, using -25 all core and 125 80 125 which doesn't seem to do much at all in gaming probably because I never hit 100% on any.


use HWiNFO64 in "RyZen snapshot mode" and the core clocks will show the actual speed logged by the CPU, see screenshot below to enable said option:










as these are actual "snapshots" of core speeds logged by the CPU they can be considered effective clocks as well

Thus, instead of everything showing "4550" you will see the actual speed the CPU logged, not the result from some algorithms used by the monitoring app. In my case, depending on temps and whatever background tasks W11 is running, all cores are able to hit actual 4550 but I haven't seen all of them hitting the limit during the same test yet, most of the time is just 4 or 5 cores hitting the actual limit, like something along the following lines:




















edit: see what happens when something as simple as Spotify is playing music in the background (even if idling, just the notification in the system tray), the boost speeds plummet a tiny bit... I took this screenshot a few minutes ago.


----------



## BNSoul

SBuck said:


> Using unedited stock settings Geekbench 5 comes up with a score of 1645 single core and multicore of 11804
> 
> Using my CO -20 -20 -27 -20 -30 -30 -20 -30 without power editing ppt, tdc , edc, I get single core of 1644 Multicore of 12110
> 
> Using the same curve and the 114-75-115 settings the test results are. single core 1649 multicore 12128
> 
> Normally I don't load the power values into the pbotuner 2 GUI. I put them in a bat file run as admin in a command line. Going to reboot and see if that could be the problem I am seeing.


Those are more than fine, I can't see any performance regression at all? I mean you actually get the same SC and better MC than I've ever achieved since your RAM is faster with tighter timings (Geekbench actually cares about bandwidth, latency and secondary and tertiary values, unlike CB), my kit is a 16-19-19-39 3600 MT/s Hynix D-die transformed into a work-in-progress 3800 MT/s, which considering the minor impact of RAM when using a 5800X3D in gaming is more than adequate... my next one will be a DDR5 kit maybe with Zen 4 X3D but most probably Zen 5.

These are all the results I got since I installed the 5800X3D CPU, these are across 2 different BIOS revisions and 3 different AMD chipset drivers packages, but they all have in common that they never hit 12K MC as you did. I believe I've never tried open limits (maybe the first couple of runs?) and to my best of my recollection I've near always tested with 122-82-124 power limits and -19* -27 -19** -24 -25 -24 -28 -29 CO.


----------



## BNSoul

BHS1975 said:


> You need to open that bad boy and test it out and give it to me if it's a platinum sample lol. I'm guessing mine has to be a 2207 as I bought it on release day.


LOL! Well as you noticed it's a 2207 from the same batch as all the other 2207's I've tested at home and back at the computer lab so chances are (very much so) high that it's the same silicon quality. My plan is to wait until my sister is back to high school this Monday so I can swap her 5800X for this 5800X3D and hope she won't notice (she is paranoid about computer upgrades, you know, if it's not broken don't fix it) but going by the type of online games she plays with her school friends she can get a considerable FPS boost with the 3D CPU. I will build some decent rig with that 5800X (considering the cheap prices of the AM4 platform) and give it away since we have a project going on at the lab where we send desktop PCs to schools in "unlucky" countries (installed by the Spanish army in countries where the NATO has undergoing missions) where kids are still using ancient hardware and thus cannot leverage the latest software innovations in order to improve their education level. According to my teachers our Faculty sent more than 300 desktop PCs in 2021 despite COVID-19 logistic issues.

edit: also, going by your benchmark results and how nicely your CPU takes -30 all-core, v-core offsets and how all of this reflects on the CPU temps I'd say yours is similar or maybe better quality than the one I got. Make sure to punish it -30 all core with Y-cruncher for 10 minutes or so just to confirm hahaha

and just to add to the Y-cruncher discussion, let's once again praise the developer of PBO2 Tuner for unlocking the settings AMD did hide and that can get a 5800X3D to reach its full potential, a shame that max core boost speed can only be tweaked via BCLK and it's not a function of situational temps/voltage vs max allowed T/V... maybe someday...

a default 5800X3D can match a default 5900X (higher default clocks + increased core count) even with crap RAM, even if just in gaming and a variety of productivity tools when running on Linux.










bonus:


----------



## Pedros

New 5800X3D owner! 

Although, i think my scores are a little off. Quick CPU-z bench

ST - 619
MT - 6167


----------



## BNSoul

Pedros said:


> New 5800X3D owner!
> 
> Although, i think my scores are a little off. Quick CPU-z bench
> 
> ST - 619
> MT - 6167


hi! are you using PBO2 Tuner limits like 122w 82A 124A and -15 best cores -30 for the rest (these are generic values, you'll have to optimize your own later on)

the average score with some optimization is more or less like this


----------



## Pedros

BNSoul said:


> hi! are you using PBO2 Tuner limits like 122w 82A 124A and -15 best cores -30 for the rest (these are generic values, you'll have to optimize your own later on)
> 
> the average score with some optimization is more or less like this
> View attachment 2571821



Still full stock. Did not do any tuning to it


----------



## BHS1975

BNSoul said:


> LOL! Well as you noticed it's a 2207 from the same batch as all the other 2207's I've tested at home and back at the computer lab so chances are (very much so) high that it's the same silicon quality. My plan is to wait until my sister is back to high school this Monday so I can swap her 5800X for this 5800X3D and hope she won't notice (she is paranoid about computer upgrades, you know, if it's not broken don't fix it) but going by the type of online games she plays with her school friends she can get a considerable FPS boost with the 3D CPU. I will build some decent rig with that 5800X (considering the cheap prices of the AM4 platform) and give it away since we have a project going on at the lab where we send desktop PCs to schools in "unlucky" countries (installed by the Spanish army in countries where the NATO has undergoing missions) where kids are still using ancient hardware and thus cannot leverage the latest software innovations in order to improve their education level. According to my teachers our Faculty sent more than 300 desktop PCs in 2021 despite COVID-19 logistic issues.
> 
> edit: also, going by your benchmark results and how nicely your CPU takes -30 all-core, v-core offsets and how all of this reflects on the CPU temps I'd say yours is similar or maybe better quality than the one I got. Make sure to punish it -30 all core with Y-cruncher for 10 minutes or so just to confirm hahaha
> 
> and just to add to the Y-cruncher discussion, let's once again praise the developer of PBO2 Tuner for unlocking the settings AMD did hide and that can get a 5800X3D to reach its full potential, a shame that max core boost speed can only be tweaked via BCLK and it's not a function of situational temps/voltage vs max allowed T/V... maybe someday...
> 
> a default 5800X3D can match a default 5900X (higher default clocks + increased core count) even with crap RAM, even if just in gaming and a variety of productivity tools when running on Linux.
> 
> View attachment 2571799
> 
> 
> bonus:
> View attachment 2571807


What's the best y-cruncher test to run?


----------



## StevieRay2

BNSoul said:


> hi! are you using PBO2 Tuner limits like 122w 82A 124A and -15 best cores -30 for the rest (these are generic values, you'll have to optimize your own later on)
> 
> the average score with some optimization is more or less like this
> View attachment 2571821


That's with CPPC Enabled, Prefferred Disabled and C-States enabled? I can hit around that multi score but my single never got past 605 no matter what CO and ppt tdc edc I use


----------



## BNSoul

StevieRay2 said:


> That's with CPPC Enabled, Prefferred Disabled and C-States enabled? I can hit around that multi score but my single never got past 605 no matter what CO and ppt tdc edc I use


Yes that's with the recommend BIOS tweaks.
The thing with CPU-Z and low single thread scores can be related to tasks/services running in the background (usually antivirus software and/or RGB management), excessive temperature and/or bugged power plans due to chipset drivers misconfiguration during the installation process.


----------



## BNSoul

BHS1975 said:


> What's the best y-cruncher test to run?


Try benchmarking Pi in multi-threading mode with option 7 as you might have seen in the past few pages in this thread, the better the RAM the less it takes to complete calculations, open power limits also improve results. However, I tried with 114w 75A 115A and -30 all-core, if your voltage curve is not stable a long Y-Cruncher test will most surely reveal it, that's the challenge.


----------



## Cidious

Yeah Wayyyy off the pace man... you gotta up those rookie numbers..











Pedros said:


> New 5800X3D owner!
> 
> Although, i think my scores are a little off. Quick CPU-z bench
> 
> ST - 619
> MT - 6167


----------



## Pedros

Cidious said:


> Yeah Wayyyy off the pace man... you gotta up those rookie numbers..
> 
> View attachment 2571903


Cid ... love you too bro!!!  It's been always like this man ... always in your trail 💕


----------



## Cidious

Pedros said:


> Cid ... love you too bro!!!  It's been always like this man ... always in your trail 💕


Too much love man... I can't take it.. 

Anyway. On topic. Your scores look fine to me. That's how mine runes on a daily without BCLK etc. 


This is with a bit of BCLK sauce iirc.


----------



## Pedros

yeah, up till now this is what i have:
























Still doing some testing and discovery. My ST and MT are a notch lower than what i see in the thread though ...


----------



## pfinch

Do you still disable CPPC Preferred for gaming?


----------



## Pedros

pfinch said:


> Do you still disable CPPC Preferred for gaming?


not really 

already tried it ... no change.

And one more result:


----------



## Waleh

Hello fellow 5800X3D owners, I recently upgraded to this chip from the 5600X and I wanted to ask if my R23 Benchmark score is normal. It is around 14300-14400 Multicore. I run everything at stock.
5800X3D Stock (Cooled by Dark Rock 4 CPU cooler). In games the temps are usually in the mid 70s. in R23, I see the temps climb to the low 80s at certain points. (Temps in degrees Celsius)
Asus ROG Strix B550F Mobo
2X16 GB DDR4 3600 CL 18 Corsair vengeance 
Asus TUF RTX 3080
1 TB NVME SSD
Corsair Rmx Gold 750W PSU
Win 11 Pro


----------



## AXi0M

Waleh said:


> Hello fellow 5800X3D owners, I recently upgraded to this chip from the 5600X and I wanted to ask if my R23 Benchmark score is normal. It is around 14300-14400 Multicore. I run everything at stock.
> 5800X3D Stock (Cooled by Dark Rock 4 CPU cooler). In games the temps are usually in the mid 70s. in R23, I see the temps climb to the low 80s at certain points. (Temps in degrees Celsius)
> Asus ROG Strix B550F Mobo
> 2X16 GB DDR4 3600 CL 18 Corsair vengeance
> Asus TUF RTX 3080
> 1 TB NVME SSD
> Corsair Rmx Gold 750W PSU
> Win 11 Pro


Yeah thats about normal for stock, with curve optimizer and a -30 all core you can expect 15100-15300 r23 scores


----------



## The_Last_AM4

Waleh said:


> Hello fellow 5800X3D owners, I recently upgraded to this chip from the 5600X and I wanted to ask if my R23 Benchmark score is normal. It is around 14300-14400 Multicore. I run everything at stock.


Hi,
One data point: I'm on Win10 X570 and get 13727 multicore and 1423 single threaded. It's -30 on all cores and admittedly I have not done any more than the settings outlined in the first post of this thread:

AMD CBS > NBIO > SMU > CPPC Enabled
AMD CBS > NBIO > SMU > CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled
AMD CBS > CPU > Global C-State Control Enabled
Just got it two days ago, and I haven't plowed through all pages of this.

Is there place to go for a summary list of settings beyond these?


----------



## colorfuel

It depends on temperature. If you manage to keep it under 79°C with -30 PBO on all cores, it will boost up to 4450Mhz per core and net you around 15000 pts in R23. At least per my observations. 

I've just changed my thermal paste to Noctua NT-H2 and with my old Thermalright Macho, I'm pretty pleased to get just below 79°C with -30 on all cores.


----------



## BNSoul

Waleh said:


> Hello fellow 5800X3D owners, I recently upgraded to this chip from the 5600X and I wanted to ask if my R23 Benchmark score is normal. It is around 14300-14400 Multicore. I run everything at stock.
> 5800X3D Stock (Cooled by Dark Rock 4 CPU cooler). In games the temps are usually in the mid 70s. in R23, I see the temps climb to the low 80s at certain points. (Temps in degrees Celsius)
> Asus ROG Strix B550F Mobo
> 2X16 GB DDR4 3600 CL 18 Corsair vengeance
> Asus TUF RTX 3080
> 1 TB NVME SSD
> Corsair Rmx Gold 750W PSU
> Win 11 Pro


is that a Dark Rock 4 Pro? do swap the fans with Silent Wings Pro 4 / Noctua, take out the one in the middle it's useless and put the fans on the sides of the radiator pushing air toward the front plate so it gets bumped to the CPU socket area, also a couple of nice fans near the top area.


----------



## 4Ripz




----------



## AXi0M

BNSoul said:


> is that a Dark Rock 4 Pro? do swap the fans with Silent Wings Pro 4 / Noctua, take out the one in the middle it's useless and put the fans on the sides of the radiator pushing air toward the front plate so it gets bumped to the CPU socket area, also a couple of nice fans near the top area.
> View attachment 2571965


AIO works well too


----------



## Waleh

BNSoul said:


> is that a Dark Rock 4 Pro? do swap the fans with Silent Wings Pro 4 / Noctua, take out the one in the middle it's useless and put the fans on the sides of the radiator pushing air toward the front plate so it gets bumped to the CPU socket area, also a couple of nice fans near the top area.
> View attachment 2571965


Its the Dark Rock 4 NON pro. I use 2, 140 mm Silent Wings 3 fans as intake at the front and 1 120 mm Silent Wings 3 fan as exhaust out the back. The case is the corsair 4000 D airflow.


----------



## Prince666

I noticed that, when I wake my pc from sleep and benchmark my 5800X3D, one core is not maxing out.
When I do a restart or shutdown, it's behaving normally again?!


----------



## reantum

The_Last_AM4 said:


> Hi,
> One data point: I'm on Win10 X570 and get 13727 multicore and 1423 single threaded. It's -30 on all cores and admittedly I have not done any more than the settings outlined in the first post of this thread:
> 
> AMD CBS > NBIO > SMU > CPPC Enabled
> AMD CBS > NBIO > SMU > CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled
> AMD CBS > CPU > Global C-State Control Enabled
> Just got it two days ago, and I haven't plowed through all pages of this.
> 
> Is there place to go for a summary list of settings beyond these?












I am using exactly like this and -30 score this.


----------



## th3illusiveman

what are your boost clocks and temps across r23 multicore? do you have the fit scalar at 0 or 1 in PBO2?


----------



## AXi0M

th3illusiveman said:


> what are your boost clocks and temps across r23 multicore? do you have the fit scalar at 0 or 1 in PBO2?


Fixed 4450 all cores in r23, 70-75c depending on the ambient. Stock fit scaler with -30 all cores


----------



## BNSoul

Prince666 said:


> I noticed that, when I wake my pc from sleep and benchmark my 5800X3D, one core is not maxing out.
> When I do a restart or shutdown, it's behaving normally again?!
> 
> View attachment 2572108


Might be a chipset drivers / BIOS issue, uninstall and perform a clean install of the former and should the issue still persist then do a full CMOS reset and/or BIOS update/reinstall.


----------



## BNSoul

reantum said:


> View attachment 2572292
> 
> 
> I am using exactly like this and -30 score this.


I take for granted clocks are not stretching if you are not using V-core offset/ custom LLC, can you take a minute to do another R23 run with HWiNFO64 (in snapshot mode to show actual clock speeds) running on the side? I'd be interested in seeing your per-core voltage in particular, thanks in advance 🙏

Here's my best result so far at stock 100.0 MHz no offset/ Auto LLC for reference. 15466 multi, 1509 single. By having a look at core VIDs you can clearly notice the best cores and also the kind of worst core.


----------



## Nighthog

People should realize not all 5800X3D are stable with -30 on every single core loaded individually.
I found around -20 is a general safe range if you test individual cores while some might do -30 not all did manage.


----------



## Drengur

Nighthog said:


> People should realize not all 5800X3D are stable with -30 on every single core loaded individually.
> I found around -20 is a general safe range if you test individual cores while some might do -30 not all did manage.


I am stable at -25, but keep it at -20 to be sure. I can run tests on -30, but it seems to cause issues/crashes in the long term.


----------



## lestatdk

Mine is stable at -30 allcore and can even do 2000 MHz IF with no issues. unfortunately I can't run with 4 memory sticks at that speed so I've bumped it down to 1933 IF


----------



## StevieRay2

I'm running all -25 on mine but never tested individual cores just all core with a few hours of ycruncher and corecycler, never any whea errors or crashes yet, also never attempted -30.
Can anyone explain clock stretching and what I would see if I'm getting it?


----------



## BNSoul

StevieRay2 said:


> I'm running all -25 on mine but never tested individual cores just all core with a few hours of ycruncher and corecycler, never any whea errors or crashes yet, also never attempted -30.
> Can anyone explain clock stretching and what I would see if I'm getting it?


Run CB23 with HWiNFO64 in Ryzen snapshot mode running along on the side, the closer to 4550 the clocks get the less stretching they show. Run it at -30 all-core since most 5800X3D CPUs can do it 100% stable. Clock stretching is triggered when cores don't get enough voltage or when they become overwhelmed by heavy workloads, instead of halting due to the loss of power they drop frequency and increase the time between cycles in order to compensate, if stretching is considerable it can show as "stuttering" and/or slowdown in gaming.


----------



## Luggage

BNSoul said:


> I take for granted clocks are not stretching if you are not using V-core offset/ custom LLC, can you take a minute to do another R23 run with HWiNFO64 (in snapshot mode to show actual clock speeds) running on the side? I'd be interested in seeing your per-core voltage in particular, thanks in advance 🙏
> 
> Here's my best result so far at stock 100.0 MHz no offset/ Auto LLC for reference. 15466 multi, 1509 single. By having a look at core VIDs you can clearly notice the best cores and also the kind of worst core.
> 
> View attachment 2572345


Nice! Getting some colder weather?
Your sc is now closer to the manual all core I posted than to your “theoretical be max score”, and that’s even with HWinfo64 running. And your multicore is beating the 4450Hz control I did  What priority are you running?


----------



## StevieRay2

BNSoul said:


> Run CB23 with HWiNFO64 in Ryzen snapshot mode running along on the side, the closer to 4550 the clocks get the less stretching they show. Run it at -30 all-core since most 5800X3D CPUs can do it 100% stable. Clock stretching is triggered when cores don't get enough voltage or when they become overwhelmed by heavy workloads, instead of halting due to the loss of power they drop frequency and increase the time between cycles in order to compensate, if stretching is considerable it can show as "stuttering" and/or slowdown in gaming.


So during R23 multi if my cores aren't all at their max 4450 and the temps are good and they lower the mhz that's stretching? because I don't think my cores stay at their max multi through the whole test


----------



## AXi0M

StevieRay2 said:


> So during R23 multi if my cores aren't all at their max 4450 and the temps are good and they lower the mhz that's stretching? because I don't think my cores stay at their max multi through the whole test


Yes, as long as it stays below 77c the temp which 5800X3D starts to throttle clocks.


----------



## Alemancio

StevieRay2 said:


> So during R23 multi if my cores aren't all at their max 4450 and the temps are good and they lower the mhz that's stretching? because I don't think my cores stay at their max multi through the whole test


Exactly. During R23, all your cores should (if possible) stay at 4.45 GHz for 5800x3D. If the cores wont hold that frequency, you're either running out of EDC or maxing out on Temp


----------



## StevieRay2

Alemancio said:


> Exactly. During R23, all your cores should (if possible) stay at 4.45 GHz for 5800x3D. If the cores wont hold that frequency, you're either running out of EDC or maxing out on Temp


Yeah probably temp then, R23 makes me hit 80c so cores don't stay max. Is that clock stretching?


----------



## Gorod

Guys, what are your observations on temperatures with custom watercooling ? With EK Quantum Velocity temperatures are still a bit high, maybe someone using it with newer water block models and can check the temps ?
This is how it behaves under OCCT AVX2 :



Spoiler: OCCT


----------



## AXi0M

Gorod said:


> Guys, what are your observations on temperatures with custom watercooling ? With EK Quantum Velocity temperatures are still a bit high, maybe someone using it with newer water block models and can check the temps ?
> This is how it behaves under OCCT AVX2 :
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: OCCT


Temps don't seem too bad considering there's a layer of cache sitting on top of the cores, no level of "dailyable" cooling can do anything about that.


----------



## thesebastian

Gorod said:


> Guys, what are your observations on temperatures with custom watercooling ? With EK Quantum Velocity temperatures are still a bit high, maybe someone using it with newer water block models and can check the temps ?
> This is how it behaves under OCCT AVX2 :
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: OCCT


I'm getting this with a Heatkiller IV and 32-33C water temp and the shown CO values.
My loop is "cold" at the moment (it needs the GPU to get hot).










Prime95 Small FTTs puts CPU at 84-87C though (stock PPT/EDC/TDC)
and your PPT in your video looks much higher.


----------



## BNSoul

StevieRay2 said:


> So during R23 multi if my cores aren't all at their max 4450 and the temps are good and they lower the mhz that's stretching? because I don't think my cores stay at their max multi through the whole test


Is that on HWiNFO64 Ryzen snapshot mode with a 520ms polling interval?

Due to the nature of the AVX workload clocks can get a bit overwhelmed and stray from max clocks a couple of times for some milliseconds, but it still should hit 4450 most of the time. It's not like Y-Cruncher where the workload is so heavy that clocks drop 100-200 MHz during a long Pi computation.


----------



## reantum

BNSoul said:


> I take for granted clocks are not stretching if you are not using V-core offset/ custom LLC, can you take a minute to do another R23 run with HWiNFO64 (in snapshot mode to show actual clock speeds) running on the side? I'd be interested in seeing your per-core voltage in particular, thanks in advance 🙏
> 
> Here's my best result so far at stock 100.0 MHz no offset/ Auto LLC for reference. 15466 multi, 1509 single. By having a look at core VIDs you can clearly notice the best cores and also the kind of worst core.
> 
> View attachment 2572345












Anything else?


----------



## StevieRay2

BNSoul said:


> Is that on HWiNFO64 Ryzen snapshot mode with a 520ms polling interval?
> 
> Due to the nature of the AVX workload clocks can get a bit overwhelmed and stray from max clocks a couple of times for some milliseconds, but it still should hit 4450 most of the time. It's not like Y-Cruncher where the workload is so heavy that clocks drop 100-200 MHz during a long Pi computation.


Global polling I should change from the default 2000 to 520?
I'm around 4430 on all cores in R23 multi because my temp hits 78-80c


----------



## The_Last_AM4

reantum said:


> (snipped photo)
> I am using exactly like this and -30 score this.


Thanks for that. I had not set the second tab in PBO2 (power levels) when I posted the original scores. Now that those are set, and following a Bios reset, I'm right at 15,000 - 15,100 so am happy enough.


----------



## Warlord_Link

Hi guys, I just upgrade from 5600X+B550 Tomahawk to 5800X3D + B550 Aorus master. My CPU only stay at 3.4Ghz clock, it won't go any higher, do you guys have any ideas what happen?

In bios, I didn't change anything, only turn on XMP profile.


----------



## Bamidrol

Warlord_Link said:


> Hi guys, I just upgrade from 5600X+B550 Tomahawk to 5800X3D + B550 Aorus master. My CPU only stay at 3.4Ghz clock, it won't go any higher, do you guys have any ideas what happen?
> 
> In bios, I didn't change anything, only turn on XMP profile.
> 
> View attachment 2572612


Do a bios update


----------



## BNSoul

reantum said:


> Anything else?


I thought your CPU wasn't throttling?



Warlord_Link said:


> Hi guys, I just upgrade from 5600X+B550 Tomahawk to 5800X3D + B550 Aorus master. My CPU only stay at 3.4Ghz clock, it won't go any higher, do you guys have any ideas what happen?
> 
> In bios, I didn't change anything, only turn on XMP profile.
> 
> View attachment 2572612


1. BIOS update
2. Full CMOS reset
3. Adjust suggested settings (opening post)
4. Full and clean OS install
5. Latest AMD Chipset drivers install
6. PBO2 Tuner install and config


----------



## ilmazzo

Finally I ordered the 3d

461€ for reference

so my x470 taichi sports both agesa flavours in the beta bios: 1.2.0.6b or the latest 1.2.0.7

would you suggest to start from the 06b or go to 07?

I would stay on my w10 with just a refresh, aim to 1900/3800 with tuned timings, cmt off… gaming rig. Don’t care for mt performance but try to squeez it for st and latency…


----------



## ilmazzo

Another thing…

I want to skip liquid metal so I’ll stick to the noctua nt-1… what about the ihs? It can need some polishing/flattening?The cooling will be my ek full waterblock for the taichi and will have plenty of thermal room but the issue here is the stackd cache over the cores so proper paste and mounting will be king I think…


----------



## The_Last_AM4

I've been reading up here, and did some DDR4 tweaking up to 3800 and tighter timings. Getting there.... 

This is with -30 all cores and 114W 75A 115A limits. I have snapshot mode enabled in HWinfo settings - Are the "Maximum" column's values supposed to be showing exactly 4,450.0Mhz or am I missing a setting?


----------



## StevieRay2

The_Last_AM4 said:


> I've been reading up here, and did some DDR4 tweaking up to 3800 and tighter timings. Getting there....
> 
> This is with -30 all cores and 114W 75A 115A limits. I have snapshot mode enabled in HWinfo settings - Are the "Maximum" column's values supposed to be showing exactly 4,450.0Mhz or am I missing a setting?
> 
> 
> View attachment 2572653


Yep that's the max multicore boost, the max single is 4550mhz


----------



## BNSoul

The_Last_AM4 said:


> I've been reading up here, and did some DDR4 tweaking up to 3800 and tighter timings. Getting there....
> 
> This is with -30 all cores and 114W 75A 115A limits. I have snapshot mode enabled in HWinfo settings - Are the "Maximum" column's values supposed to be showing exactly 4,450.0Mhz or am I missing a setting?
> 
> 
> View attachment 2572653


Cores min temp 25ºC and max 63ºC , I mean that's an open case PC placed right by an AC unit turned to 18-19ºC... or in the middle of Alaska with freezing air blowing through the windows into your CPU socket. Not really representative of a realistic scenario. Single core performance is a bit on the low side since the artificial temperature is inducing V-drops because it's just too cold, law of thermodynamics, increase temps a bit for optimal single core operation. I got 1509 SC and 15466 MC at 71-73º "cheating" with moderately lucky silicon.


----------



## The_Last_AM4

BNSoul said:


> Cores min temp 25ºC and max 63ºC , I mean that's an open case PC placed right by an AC unit turned to 18-19ºC... or in the middle of Alaska with freezing air blowing through the windows into your CPU socket. Not really representative of a realistic scenario. Single core performance is a bit on the low side since the artificial temperature is inducing V-drops because it's just too cold, law of thermodynamics, increase temps a bit for optimal single core operation. I got 1509 SC and 15466 MC at 71-73º "cheating" with moderately lucky silicon.


Hmmm. I'm not doubting you at all - Don't really know what to say about the temps. It is indeed an open-ish case (an old Thermaltake Core P3). Ambient temp was around 70F (21C) in my workshop when I ran that Cinebench. Definitely no AC out here, but I've spent quite a bit of time on 3D printed vents and ducts, as it's often up to 110F in my climate. CPU cooler is an Enermax 360mm AIO (top unit in the pic, vented out of the top white ducts).

Maybe a sensor problem? (EDIT - core max was actually closer to 70C from my reading).


----------



## BNSoul

The_Last_AM4 said:


> Hmmm. I'm not doubting you at all - Don't really know what to say about the temps. It is indeed an open-ish case (an old Thermaltake Core P3). Ambient temp was around 70F (21C) in my workshop when I ran that Cinebench. Definitely no AC out here, but I've spent quite a bit of time on 3D printed vents and ducts, as it's often up to 110F in my climate. CPU cooler is an Enermax 360mm AIO (top unit in the pic, vented out of the top white ducts).
> 
> Maybe a sensor problem? (EDIT - core max was actually closer to 70C from my reading).
> 
> View attachment 2572665


Ah yes 70º is easily doable this time of the year with the room temperature you mentioned, mate you have such a nice custom build, 3D printed! Mad props there, good job. Sorry for the previous comment then, it's just that 25º-63ºC working temps during C23 benchmarking can't be attained through conventional cooling even in a chilled room. You know probably better than me that even if the CPU is inside the fridge the very moment you click on "start benchmark" temps ramp up above 64ºC in milliseconds, this goes for all Zen 3 CPUs 5800X and above.

Then again I wonder what happened with your single core performance there, maybe a rogue Windows service running in the background? Are you using a polling interval of 520ms? 

Also, with a 114w PPT back at the computer lab the 5800X3D builds range anywhere from 102w to 114w total CPU package consumption during this test, it's a very noticeable difference based solely on VRMs and CPU silicon quality, my sample usually does 104-106w.


----------



## The_Last_AM4

BNSoul said:


> Ah yes 70º is easily doable this time of the year with the room temperature you mentioned, mate you have such a nice custom build, 3D printed! Mad props there, good job. Sorry for the previous comment then, it's just that 25º-63ºC working temps during C23 benchmarking can't be attained through conventional cooling even in a chilled room. You know probably better than me that no matter if the CPU is inside the fridge the very moment you click on "start benchmark" temps shoot up above 64ºC in milliseconds.


Cheers, also wanted to add - as a new reader here, a big thanks for the awesome amount of information you and others have posted here. I've got expertise in some areas, but this ain't one of them, so really appreciate you helping people like me get the most out of this thing!


----------



## BNSoul

The_Last_AM4 said:


> Cheers, also wanted to add - as a new reader here, a big thanks for the awesome amount of information you and others have posted here. I've got expertise in some areas, but this ain't one of them, so really appreciate you helping people like me get the most out of this thing!


Thanks to you for your contribution, it's the only way we can learn from each other, now I'm super interested in that custom loop with 3D printed hardware since my old man has been working with 3D printed parts in cooling solutions unrelated to desktop PCs (microelectronics engineering). 

Were you using a fast HWiNFO64 polling interval (fast as in 520ms or lower) for your test? It's the only explanation I can come up with for the lower than average single core performance (or a system service running in the background). I can totally see your custom build achieving extraordinarily in the winter weather, maybe 1510+ SC and 15500 MC (can't get any better without overclocking or extreme V-core offsets and aggressive LLC, but this will undoubtedly show clock stretching in HWINFO64).

It's a gaming CPU after all and it's made all my favorite titles I play with my school mates completely smooth and responsive, it's an absolute joy. The reason we perform these Cinebench/Y-Cruncher tests is mainly to check whether the cooling solution is up to the task and also to assess the quality of the CPU under the stress of a heavy workload on top of a -30 all-core regulation that would make most Zen 3 CPUs reboot the PC one second into the benchmark. If there's no throttling and no clock stretching either (as you also evidenced in your test) then the CPU is ready to tackle anything 👍


----------



## Gorod

thesebastian said:


> I'm getting this with a Heatkiller IV and 32-33C water temp and the shown CO values.
> My loop is "cold" at the moment (it needs the GPU to get hot).
> 
> View attachment 2572470
> 
> 
> Prime95 Small FTTs puts CPU at 84-87C though (stock PPT/EDC/TDC)
> and your PPT in your video looks much higher.


Thank you for taking your time to check the temps, much appreciated ! Your temps look great compared to what i have, but as you noticed i am drawing more power due to overclock, so its got to be about normal i guess. Its a dedicated gaming pc anyway, never experiencing this kind of loads in any game. That being said despite 3D being a gaming monster and all, it is such a boring platform to play with overclocking wise, only 105 bios bootable bclk on what is supposed to be an overclocking friendly motherboard (unify-x) is depressing, the highest it ever managed was 107 (with help of powerdragon utility) and was super unstable and weird with all sorts of glitches, like completely crashing the graphics driver to the point it needed to be reinstalled after each crash. Now, 105 is super stable just by booting from bios, it even passes OCCT for 10 minutes (did not bother for longer runs), which is nice, the depressing part is it does not even post at 105.5 ... Wondering is there a list of motherboards with external clock generator anywhere ? Manufactures and not even big name reviewer never mention that part anywhere. Is Crosshair VIII Extreme really the only full potential overclocking board for 5800X3D ?!


----------



## reantum

BNSoul said:


> I thought your CPU wasn't throttling?
> 
> 
> 
> 1. BIOS update
> 2. Full CMOS reset
> 3. Adjust suggested settings (opening post)
> 4. Full and clean OS install
> 5. Latest AMD Chipset drivers install
> 6. PBO2 Tuner install and config


Nah, everything is fine. I tested allready when i put -30 for cpu.


----------



## The_Last_AM4

BNSoul said:


> Were you using a fast HWiNFO64 polling interval (fast as in 520ms or lower) for your test? It's the only explanation I can come up with for the lower than average single core performance (or a system service running in the background).


It was 1000ms. I'm going to do a fresh install of Windows when I get some time next week. This was a migration from a 5600X. Probably time to clean things up.



> It's a gaming CPU after all and it's made all my favorite titles I play with my school mates completely smooth and responsive, it's an absolute joy.


Absolutely! I bought this CPU for exactly one purpose: Put in in my VR sim-racing PC to play Assetto Corsa. (Used to circuit race, and still love high-HP road cars, but now am well past the half-century mark so am willing to live vicariously through the sims. Ah well.)


----------



## AXi0M

Can't wait to see how this CPU performs with a 4090 once i get my hands on one. i guess my no power limit 1080Ti will finally be able to rest after all these years.


----------



## bloot

I'll wait to RDNA3 cards, hope AMD pricing is more realistic. Not planning an upgrade to AM5 though.


----------



## BNSoul

Any feedback with regard to Windows 11 22H2 ??
Some ppl claiming performance regression in gaming, but it might be a matter of clean install vs Windows Update botched install. I'm just going to wait at least 6 months before upgrading since there's no real incentive that I can see.


----------



## AXi0M

BNSoul said:


> Any feedback with regard to Windows 11 22H2 ??
> Some ppl claiming performance regression in gaming, but it might be a matter of clean install vs Windows Update botched install. I'm just going to wait at least 6 months before upgrading since there's no real incentive that I can see.


Im still waiting for an incentive to upgrade to windows 11 in general.


----------



## Blameless

ilmazzo said:


> what about the ihs? It can need some polishing/flattening?


All of my AM4 parts have been concave and my 5800X3D was no exception. I lapped it after I confirmed it wasn't defective.


----------



## ilmazzo

Mine arrived yesterday, I forgot to take a picture of it to see the batch


----------



## ilmazzo

week 24, Malesya

platinum gold or turd? Who cares lol

my cpu for the next 3 years…six months and I’ll add a 6900XT to the mix


----------



## Blameless

ilmazzo said:


> week 24, Malesya
> 
> platinum gold or turd? Who cares lol
> 
> my cpu for the next 3 years…six months and I’ll add a 6900XT to the mix


Mine was a 2209 PGS. Earlier samples seem to handle deep negative CO more readily, but the practical difference is tiny. These parts don't boost high enough for there to be dramatic differences in what they'll do.


----------



## erick.noleto

My 5800x3D won't get past 4550 boost on some cores, as many of you guys already told... The best I could get on my setup is offsetting VCore -200mV, which make it really cooler, still getting to 4550-4450 on 100% load all cores... I tried curves on PBO 2 Tuner, I've tried messing around with C States, tried messing around with power limits, voltages... I really think AMD is holding back the 5800x3D in its microcode. I know it is not stable when pushed too far, but I think AMD is being really conservative on this one... And for anyone thinking that AMD will refine it's microcode... Ryzen 7000 is almost out now.. I really think 5800x3D will have to wait a little... My Setup: - Asus Rog Strix X570i motherboard (mini itx) - 2x16gb G.Skill Trident Z Neo 3600 CL16 - Cpu cooler is a Asus Rog Strix Ryujin II 240mm / the other setup was with AK620 tower air cooler, both keep the CPU at 41ºC idle and 70ºC under all cores full load, no air conditioning on room. - Case is Lian Li O11 Mini Air with default fans on front, now the AIO is siting top with both 120mm fans in exhaust. - 1300w Cybercore XPG PSU - Rx 6900xt Aorus Master - Corsair MP600 XT Pro 2TB - Windows 11 fully updated


----------



## erick.noleto

BNSoul said:


> Any feedback with regard to Windows 11 22H2 ??
> Some ppl claiming performance regression in gaming, but it might be a matter of clean install vs Windows Update botched install. I'm just going to wait at least 6 months before upgrading since there's no real incentive that I can see.


Update to W11 22H2 yesterday... Didn't feel any gaming performance difference till now.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Hey all,

Could you help me validate if this 5800X3D is genuine?


Spoiler



Removed - Thanks!


Found it on the used market, locally. Listed at $300 USD. Owner will allow me to test it in my system first. However, I spotted two red flags. I want to see if other users will validate my concerns them before I list them.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Bamidrol

Slaughtahouse said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Could you help me validate if this 5800X3D is genuine?
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2573139
> 
> 
> 
> Found it on the used market, locally. Listed at $300 USD. Owner will allow me to test it in my system first. However, I spotted two red flags. I want to see if other users will validate my concerns them before I list them.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


This looks fake af. Look at the printing difference in general and the way the bottom left logo is printed instead of stamped.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

geez, OCN is on fire. That was quick… and edit: that is ONE of TWO concerns. There is another one outside of printing and stamping.

It’s the gold triangle at the bottom. My 3800X had a tiny one. I googled it and as far as I could tell, all Zen CPUs have minuscule gold triangles.


----------



## AXi0M

Slaughtahouse said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Could you help me validate if this 5800X3D is genuine?
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2573142
> 
> 
> 
> Found it on the used market, locally. Listed at $300 USD. Owner will allow me to test it in my system first. However, I spotted two red flags. I want to see if other users will validate my concerns them before I list them.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Does it show 96MB of L3 in task manager?


----------



## Slaughtahouse

AXi0M said:


> Does it show 96MB of L3 in task manager?


I won’ waste my time with the seller. I’m not meeting them now nor would I put that CPU in my system now.

If I had hadn’t asked here, I would of checked in CPU-Z + run a quick test for stability (P95, AIDA etc.)


----------



## ocisdead

BNSoul said:


> Any feedback with regard to Windows 11 22H2 ??
> Some ppl claiming performance regression in gaming, but it might be a matter of clean install vs Windows Update botched install. I'm just going to wait at least 6 months before upgrading since there's no real incentive that I can see.



This is from a Zen2 + Nvidia system, I tested right before and after the update. This is a 100% cpu bound benchmark of a replay. Retested a couple times but it's clear the fps has gone and found a new home somewhere else.

22-09-2022, 12:16:04 Overwatch.exe benchmark completed, 68164 frames rendered in 173.282 s
Average framerate : 393.3 FPS
Minimum framerate : 318.2 FPS
Maximum framerate : 400.9 FPS
1% low framerate : 245.8 FPS
0.1% low framerate : 171.4 FPS

22-09-2022, 14:18:43 Overwatch.exe benchmark completed, 64315 frames rendered in 173.438 s (22H2)
Average framerate : 370.8 FPS
Minimum framerate : 286.6 FPS
Maximum framerate : 399.9 FPS
1% low framerate : 252.5 FPS
0.1% low framerate : 176.6 FPS


----------



## Jabdah

not true... FPS is all OK even with the 22H2. ( for my system )

Maybe YOUR system works not well with 22H2. All i can say is , here it runs like a charm. Not even a single Problem.

And Dude... this is the 5800x3D Thread... Zen 2 is dead... so, stop posting dead results 

EDIT: 26.09.22
Ok ok ok... you are right... Some ppls HAVE problems with 22H2. 

Looks like some NVIDIA problems cause drops laggs and more. MY Fault !!


----------



## BNSoul

My new fav config for "old" and/or less demanding titles is 76-60-90 -30 all-core FMAX 4000 MHz and removing 2 or 4 cores (task bar -> set affinity), it keeps 1440p 144fps flatline like a champ. Seeing CPU demanding games such as Horizon or AC Odyssey run unwavering rock solid at said performance under 40 Watts and 38-39ºC is simply incredible. Even Hades holds 600 fps with just two cores and severely gimped like that.

No surprise though since most gains come from L3 cache, interesting that in some modern AAA titles the performance hit is so small, got to test further.


----------



## KevyMatts

Ran a C20 Test and noticed my Temps going very high anything to be concerned about?

Stock









-30 Offset


----------



## BCB57

KevyMatts said:


> Ran a C20 Test and noticed my Temps going very high anything to be concerned about?
> 
> Stock
> View attachment 2573191
> 
> 
> 
> -30 Offset
> View attachment 2573192


Your -30 temps aren't too bad, but -- if your motherboard allows it -- try dialing in a small undervolt so peak voltage during the test is about 1.15 to 1.17. Max temp will drop below 80 and your score will rise.


----------



## StevieRay2

Anyone know if this B550 Tomahawk Beta bios has any benefits for the 3D? Changelog sounds like nothing useful unless they just didn't mention everything.

7C91vAB1(Beta version)2022-07-3017.70 MB

Description:
- Update to AGESA ComboAm4v2PI 1.2.0.7. - Change the default setting of Secure Boot.


----------



## Jabdah

StevieRay2 said:


> Anyone know if this B550 Tomahawk Beta bios has any benefits for the 3D? Changelog sounds like nothing useful unless they just didn't mention everything.
> 
> 7C91vAB1(Beta version)2022-07-3017.70 MB
> 
> Description:
> - Update to AGESA ComboAm4v2PI 1.2.0.7. - Change the default setting of Secure Boot.


Im using this Bios.

There is a new feature avail called " Kombo Strike " sounds like a weapon from WW2 , but its nothing else like an included PBO2 tuner feature.

I´ve set it on level 3 and CPU runs like a charm and cold enough for a FAN cooling PC.

Edit: oh, and no more PBO2 Tuner in Autostart


----------



## StevieRay2

Jabdah said:


> Im using this Bios.
> 
> There is a new feature avail called " Kombo Strike " sounds like a weapon from WW2 , but its nothing else like an included PBO2 tuner feature.
> 
> I´ve set it on level 3 and CPU runs like a charm and cold enough for a FAN cooling PC.
> 
> Edit: oh, and no more PBO2 Tuner in Autostart


Does the BIOS give you pbo2 tuner in the BIOS? or only the Kombo strike level 1 2 3 options? If just the Kombo strike how does it compare to PBO2 CO? Lower voltages?


----------



## thesebastian

Are my "auto" SOC/VDDP/VDDG voltages fine or should be optimized for 3200Mhz RAM? (I've been running CPU finely for almost a month).
These are set by B450 ITX motherboard on auto setting


----------



## BNSoul

thesebastian said:


> Are my "auto" SOC/VDDP/VDDG voltages fine or should be optimized for 3200Mhz RAM? (I've been running CPU finely for almost a month).
> These are set by B450 ITX motherboard on auto setting
> View attachment 2573221


VDDG CCD should be 0,89 instead of 0,99 and even lower
IOD can also be lower 0,95 - 0,98 is safe for 3800 MT/s so for 3200 you're running it high
as for your timings have a look at what I have (I was helped by a RAM overclocker right in this thread)


----------



## thesebastian

BNSoul said:


> VDDG CCD should be 0,89 instead of 0,99 and even lower
> IOD can also be lower 0,95 - 0,98 is safe for 3800 MT/s so for 3200 you're running it high
> as for your timings have a look at what I have (I was helped by a RAM overclocker right in this thread)
> 
> View attachment 2573224


Thanks. I've set the following voltages:


















Prime95 Small FTTs now hits a few higher degrees. (Was like 85-88C before, now it hits 90C). Nothing I really care about, but just a fact I noticed lol.
I'm running -15 (best core) -30 (the other 7 cores).

Regarding the RAM OC. I used to run them at 3600 or 3733 with my Zen 2 3700X like 2 years ago. But i had some kernel power issues while PC was asleep (that used to happen once every 20-60 days) and decided to go back to stock (probably unrelated to ram and more related to 2020-2021 motherboard BIOS). I'll try maybe in the future higher clock ram speed. But I understand the 5800X3D is lowly impacted by ram speed unlike Zen 2, so for now I'm testing CO values and the motherboard values.


----------



## OCmember

What volt setting is responsible for the Cache?


----------



## StevieRay2

Is 77c the first temp where the boost clocks start to lower? if so I guess I'll put my fans on full 100% around 75c


----------



## Blameless

OCmember said:


> What volt setting is responsible for the Cache?


Core voltage.


----------



## BNSoul

StevieRay2 said:


> Is 77c the first temp where the boost clocks start to lower? if so I guess I'll put my fans on full 100% around 75c


80ºC


----------



## OCmember

Blameless said:


> Core voltage.


I got 2 WHEA Error ID 19s (Cache Hierarchy Error) in the past 10 days, zero ID 18s since dialing in my vsoc months ago and haven't changed anything in the bios since then. What could be causing them, and how can I address the issue?

EDIT: after the first error I ran OCCT, TM5 extreme profile, and y-cruncher, I did have a problem with OCCT but I re-ran it and the other tests and they passed.


----------



## Blameless

OCmember said:


> I got 2 WHEA Error ID 19s (Cache Hierarchy Error) in the past 10 days, zero ID 18s since dialing in my vsoc months ago and haven't changed anything in the bios since then. What could be causing them, and how can I address the issue?
> 
> EDIT: after the first error I ran OCCT, TM5 extreme profile, and y-cruncher, I did have a problem with OCCT but I re-ran it and the other tests and they passed.


Cache hierarchy errors can be memory, IMC, fabric, or even an unstable GPU (especially if ReBAR is enabled). Fabric is probably most common and I would bump vSoC and/or vDDG.


----------



## OCmember

Blameless said:


> Cache hierarchy errors can be memory, IMC, fabric, or even an unstable GPU (especially if ReBAR is enabled). Fabric is probably most common and I would bump vSoC and/or vDDG.


Thanks! I'm going to look into the GPU first as I've been pushing it as of late and that could be it. I've ran the AMD built in GPU stress test and it's been fine but I need to find a test that's pushes the system that would cause instability. 

What section in the bios is best to change the vDDG setting? The one under SMU options?


----------



## Blameless

OCmember said:


> What section in the bios is best to change the vDDG setting? The one under SMU options?


On my Gigabyte board I use the 'AMD Overclocking' menu.


----------



## AXi0M

Decided to re-apply my thermal paste today and check the batch number. looks like Newegg Canada got some early samples i got a 2207PGS that i ordered day one. Seems like @BNSoul was right about early ones being good for -30 all core and good IF clocks since i can do 1933Mhz at only 1.1v SOC.


----------



## biebiep

Anyone have an idea why my bclk OC isn't applying on Core0 ?

Could it just be a sensor issue? Any ideas on how to test this?
Core0 is at same multi as all the others, its just calculated at 100bclk while the others are at 104bclk


CPU-Z advanced view reports all cores at 44.5*104
HWInfo reports C0 at 100*44.5, rest at 140*44.5
Ryzen Master shows 100*44.5 for all cores.
Now the question is, who's correct? I don't think cores can run off different baseclocks?


also lol, I figured I was buying the "mature" platform here instead of going for AM5.


----------



## StevieRay2

If my temps are low and during gaming my core clocks perf are all at a steady 4450mhz but in the end the effective core clocks only hit 4159-4239mhz on most what does that mean? is there anyway to get the effective cores higher or it's just how this game handles it?


----------



## BHS1975

StevieRay2 said:


> If my temps are low and during gaming my core clocks perf are all at a steady 4450mhz but in the end the effective core clocks only hit 4159-4239mhz on most what does that mean? is there anyway to get the effective cores higher or it's just how this game handles it?


Mine does the same thing. I've been gaming with scalar 0 and it keeps the voltages much lower with cooler temps and no loss of FPS.


----------



## AXi0M

StevieRay2 said:


> If my temps are low and during gaming my core clocks perf are all at a steady 4450mhz but in the end the effective core clocks only hit 4159-4239mhz on most what does that mean? is there anyway to get the effective cores higher or it's just how this game handles it?


You'll only see effective clocks 4450-4550 when at 80-100% load on a core/cores.


----------



## MrGamer

Found this thread whilst losing my marbles. My new 5800X3D isn't boosting at all or has odd issues.
Case: Deepcool Mattrexx 70 RGB (3 Intake, 1 rear exhaust, 1 upper exhaust)
Cooler: Dark Rock Pro 4 (Only have middle cooler in as front cooler won't clear my RAM)
RAM: Samsung Dominator Platinum RGB 2x8gb CL14
CPU: 5800X3D
MB: MSI Tomahawk B450 Max with latest BIOS
Latest chipset drivers and Windows Drivers
XMP on
Idle temps around 50c
Ryzen High Performance Plan

When using R23 I get a paltry score of 13000 odd multi core. During testing it's only going to 3.8ghz, also I notice PPT usage is low in Ryzen Master?


http://imgur.com/Ni7auJ5

 (Right after finishing)


http://imgur.com/SZPkTSv

During testing;


http://imgur.com/Fmp5nJ8




http://imgur.com/quSExf6


The odd thing is, if I use PBO2 Tuner, no matter what - value I put, it rockets upto 4.1ghz whilst hitting 90c, it's almost as it if's running back to front!? However with PBO2 Tuner on, if I run R23 it will sit at (albeit throttled) 4.1ghz at 90c and get a score of 1390ish, which is higher, but still low. 

Power plan checked, it's 100% on the maximum processor state, it's almost as if it's actually on 99% (as I've played around with that setting before with other CPUs) My previous 3700X never went above 70c under load/gaming.

However my single thread scores seem fine?


http://imgur.com/4BaeJBE


Any ideas? Can't be a bad CPU as this is a direct RMA replacement for another one I was having the same issue with!


----------



## ManniX-ITA

MrGamer said:


> Cooler: Dark Rock Pro 4 (Only have middle cooler in as front cooler won't clear my RAM)


I would attempt a re-seating of the cooler, it looks like there's no good contact and the CPU is detecting it and hard-throttling

I have the Dark Rock Pro 4 as well and if I remember correctly there's quite a huge margin to fix the front cooler higher.
Even if it leaves a big part of the lower HS uncovered it's better than without.


----------



## MrGamer

ManniX-ITA said:


> I would attempt a re-seating of the cooler, it looks like there's no good contact and the CPU is detecting it and hard-throttling
> 
> I have the Dark Rock Pro 4 as well and if I remember correctly there's quite a huge margin to fix the front cooler higher.
> Even if it leaves a big part of the lower HS uncovered it's better than without.


Hi, thanks for the reply. I've tried re-seating the cooler but maybe it's still not correct. There is a slight bit of wiggle room when putting it on but I found it really, really difficult to know if it's seated bang-on. Sadly the front fan will not sit on even on the highest setting, the RAM is really tall!

But even still, I'm a little miffed at how using PBO2 tuner it will happily run at (albeit throttled) 4.1ghz at 90c for a full run in R23.


----------



## ManniX-ITA

MrGamer said:


> Hi, thanks for the reply. I've tried re-seating the cooler but maybe it's still not correct. There is a slight bit of wiggle room when putting it on but I found it really, really difficult to know if it's seated bang-on. Sadly the front fan will not sit on even on the highest setting, the RAM is really tall!


This fan is not super easy to mount but usually not even that difficult.
Be sure to make one turn for each screw, it can end up tilted if the tension is stronger on one side.
The middle fan is the least effective.
Check if you can mount the front fan on the back of the HS.


----------



## Cidious

DRP4 notoriously bad for mounting pressure. I'd chug it out of the window and get a decent Arctic AIO or something. The DRP4 too is too heavy for it's mounting pressure. What you can try is during the test to gently push it on a bit tighter (I SAY GENTLY, because putting too much socket pressure can harm). If the temps improve while pushing it on tighter then you know what's what but I'm fairly sure it's the cooler. It's a dumb thing in my humble opinion. A typical case of overengineering gone wrong. Too heavy and not better than a Noctua D15 which is lighter and has a better mounting mechanism.

Sorry for the rant. Just seen too many people having problems with this silly cooler.


----------



## MrGamer

ManniX-ITA said:


> This fan is not super easy to mount but usually not even that difficult.
> Be sure to make one turn for each screw, it can end up tilted if the tension is stronger on one side.
> The middle fan is the least effective.
> Check if you can mount the front fan on the back of the HS.


After some research, it seems this kind of swivel is pretty normal with a Dark Rock Pro 4 so it's not a cooling issue.


Cidious said:


> DRP4 notoriously bad for mounting pressure. I'd chug it out of the window and get a decent Arctic AIO or something. The DRP4 too is too heavy for it's mounting pressure. What you can try is during the test to gently push it on a bit tighter (I SAY GENTLY, because putting too much socket pressure can harm). If the temps improve while pushing it on tighter then you know what's what but I'm fairly sure it's the cooler. It's a dumb thing in my humble opinion. A typical case of overengineering gone wrong. Too heavy and not better than a Noctua D15 which is lighter and has a better mounting mechanism.
> 
> Sorry for the rant. Just seen too many people having problems with this silly cooler.


Thanks for the reply both. It looks as if the wiggle is a common problem. However, I've just noticed this.

PBO2 Tuner OFF


http://imgur.com/FBQ3ND3

The voltage maxes out at 87w

PBO Tuner ON


http://imgur.com/I05Iqg9

The voltage hits 115w

It's as if PBO Tuner is removing some kind of limit but not applying the curve. I'm 99% certain this is a software/hardware bug going on. When running R23 with PBO tuner off, the temp never goes above 75c so it's not throttling near it's limit. Although I do notice the mhz go upto 4.5 for the first second, then suddenly it drops off.


----------



## AXi0M

MrGamer said:


> After some research, it seems this kind of swivel is pretty normal with a Dark Rock Pro 4 so it's not a cooling issue.
> 
> Thanks for the reply both. It looks as if the wiggle is a common problem. However, I've just noticed this.
> 
> PBO2 Tuner OFF
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/FBQ3ND3
> 
> The voltage maxes out at 87w
> 
> PBO Tuner ON
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/I05Iqg9
> 
> The voltage hits 115w
> 
> It's as if PBO Tuner is removing some kind of limit but not applying the curve. I'm 99% certain this is a software/hardware bug going on. When running R23 with PBO tuner off, the temp never goes above 75c so it's not throttling near it's limit. Although I do notice the mhz go upto 4.5 for the first second, then suddenly it drops off.


im still using bios with 1.2.0.6.b for same reason, with 1.2.0.7 it uses ~50mv more with PBO2 Tuner and ~120W in R23. with older bios its ~105W.


----------



## ManniX-ITA

MrGamer said:


> Thanks for the reply both. It looks as if the wiggle is a common problem. However, I've just noticed this.


Wiggle when?
Once the screws have been tightened there should be no wiggle clockwise/anti-clockwise.
Unless you apply a very strong force on the HS.
Otherwise mounting pressure is off.

It could be a software issue but the clocks going down so quickly could also mean the CPU detected a very high THM velocity and decided to throttle for safety.
Check if HWInfo is detecting PROCHOT trigger.



Cidious said:


> DRP4 notoriously bad for mounting pressure. I'd chug it out of the window and get a decent Arctic AIO or something. The DRP4 too is too heavy for it's mounting pressure. What you can try is during the test to gently push it on a bit tighter (I SAY GENTLY, because putting too much socket pressure can harm). If the temps improve while pushing it on tighter then you know what's what but I'm fairly sure it's the cooler. It's a dumb thing in my humble opinion. A typical case of overengineering gone wrong. Too heavy and not better than a Noctua D15 which is lighter and has a better mounting mechanism.
> 
> Sorry for the rant. Just seen too many people having problems with this silly cooler.


I have both and yes the D15 is better.
But I'm also not so critical of the DRP4.
Maybe I've been lucky or there are multiple revisions, not sure.

The DRP4 is lighter than the D15, not heavier.
DRP4 with the whole packaging is 1.39 Kg.
The D15 with fans is 1.32 Kg, DRP4 is 1.13Kg.
Performances are more or less the same, being the DRP4 fans more silent and also less efficient.

The mounting pressure on AM4 is fixed.
Once the screws are tightened, there should be no difference.
It can happen, and it does also on the D15, that you end up with a bad mounting pressure.
That depends on how you get there.

The mounting mechanism of DRP4 is basically a carbon copy of D15, hence they suffer the same limitations.
You need to be careful and tight with 1 turn each screw at a time. 
One slight unbalance and you end up with a bad contact with the HS.
I had to remount both coolers a few times cause I did it too much in a hurry, it can happen.

Buying another Noctua would have been a better choice 
But living in Germany, the DRP4 was available at the local store...


----------



## MrGamer

ManniX-ITA said:


> Wiggle when?
> Once the screws have been tightened there should be no wiggle clockwise/anti-clockwise.
> Unless you apply a very strong force on the HS.
> Otherwise mounting pressure is off.
> 
> It could be a software issue but the clocks going down so quickly could also mean the CPU detected a very high THM velocity and decided to throttle for safety.
> Check if HWInfo is detecting PROCHOT trigger.


Again, a common issue and the wiggle is pretty minimal and don't think it's causing the issue.

HWInfo not detecting any throttling;


http://imgur.com/dM7BoUc


----------



## ManniX-ITA

MrGamer said:


> Again, a common issue and the wiggle is pretty minimal and don't think it's causing the issue.


Yes seems more a software issue otherwise PROCHOT would be asserted.
Try to find if someone else had issues with a 3D and the same board.


----------



## MrGamer

ManniX-ITA said:


> Yes seems more a software issue otherwise PROCHOT would be asserted.
> Try to find if someone else had issues with a 3D and the same board.


Yeah I've been googling near everything for the past day but can't find anything similar to my issue. Most people have the boost issue which is resolved by the latest BIOS, but I have it already. (Even if it was that - it still wouldn't be able to boost with PBO2 Tuner)


----------



## Teussi

Yeah, geez, wonder why amd really limited this to 4.5ghz


----------



## BCB57

MSFS is my most "played" title, so I'm extremely happy with that bar chart! Maybe the 7000s shine at higher resolutions though... will watch the video now.


----------



## BNSoul

Zen 4 marginally beats 5800X3D (1-2%, but not in all games) when using expensive DDR5 6000 memory CL30-CL32 and hitting 90ºC, it takes a lot of money to match the little Zen 3 wonder. Turns out we've been enjoying Zen 4 performance already for a while now 😂


----------



## StevieRay2

5800X3D really is the 1080ti of CPUs, punching above it's weight class and will be for a few years


----------



## boogasbeowulf_6414

Hi there, 

A new 5800x3d owner here. I bought it as a replacement for 3950x on Aorus x570 Ultra mobo, g.skill aegis 32gb (2x16gb) ddr4-3200 and rtx 3090. My previous cpu was mainly coping really well, but as I have two monitors: one 4k60Hz and the other 5120x1440 32:9 120Hz there was a appreciable bottleneck on the superultrawide at higher refresh rates. Hence my decision to buy 5800x3D. I installed the CPU, reset bios to stock, having reflashed it to the latest beta f36d, ad started benchmarking. Some cpu intensive games run considerably better, even fantastic, for instance Spiderman Remastered which, I guess is the most CPU demanding these days, or Dying Light 2. Now I can finally run them on the superultrawide with 99% gpu utilisation super smooth mes but on some other titles there seem to be a problem. For instance Assassin's Creed Odyssey used to run flawlessly but now when I'm in a big city with lots of assets and NPC's and climb a high spot and pan the camera the game hitches for a second with almost 100% spikes of cpu usage followed by drops in GPU utilisation. It didn't use to behave like that on 3950x - maybe it is the question of the fewer cores on 5800x3d but to my mind it shouldn't have such problems with this game (I reinstalled it and deleted cfg)

While benchmarking on stock setting I get around 13900 Cb23 multicore and 14200 single core. I tried settings in bios recommend on the first page but they won't stick on my motherboard and revert to auto. I also tried PBO2 Tuner and with -25 offset I get better Cb23 score and max multi core boost stays pegged at 4450MHz but the choppy performance in some games persists. I suspect it is a question of tweaking some settings either in bios or in Windows but I just can't put my finger on it. I've been leafing through this thread trying to find the answer or some remedy but quite frankly some of the stuff you discuss here seems to be too difficult for me to fully grasp. I'm just not experienced and knowledgeable enough when it comes to overclocking or undervolting Ryzen CPUs. And all the board manufacturers seem to be using their own bios terminology. Maybe someone with a similar x570 Aorus board could give me a hand as to what I shall change in bios. I tried changing some settings in bios pertaining to voltages to see if they get saved, which they do but I don't know which exactly voltages to either bump or lower to get better performance/stability in order to get smoother frames in the games where there are problems. 

I should also mention that temperatures seem to be ok as on Dark Rock 4 Pro I never exceed 80 degrees Celsius, whether stock or with -25 in PBO2 Tuner.

Your help would be much appreciated...


----------



## BNSoul

boogasbeowulf_6414 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Your help would be much appreciated...


Hi! Welcome!

The problem with AC Odyssey is well known and two-fold, 2022 Nvidia drivers in tandem with the last update to the game cause some CPU and GPU spikes specially when running beyond certain fps threshold.

Also, 80ºC while gaming is a bit too much I never get over 50-55 in most demanding titles. I suggest you a little experiment with PBO2 Tuner, set power limits to 76-60-90, FMAX (maximum boost) to just 4000 and a voltage curve of -15 for the two best cores and -25 for the rest, tell me how AC Odyssey runs under these conditions. Most "old" titles won't notice the difference.


----------



## StevieRay2

I hit in the 70's with -25CO and a D15 in a lot of games, R23 multi I hit 81c. Power limits untouched, too lazy right now to test with all the games to see if the drop my performance. Maybe I will when my motherboards bios is out of beta and compare to Kombo Strike.

Would 2x16GB sticks tune better on this than 4x8GB? 2 stick easier on the IMC? Planning to upgrade to some b-dies to tune.


----------



## BHS1975

StevieRay2 said:


> I hit in the 70's with -25CO and a D15 in a lot of games, R23 multi I hit 81c. Power limits untouched, too lazy right now to test with all the games to see if the drop my performance. Maybe I will when my motherboards bios is out of beta and compare to Kombo Strike.
> 
> Would 2x16GB sticks tune better on this than 4x8GB? 2 stick easier on the IMC? Planning to upgrade to some b-dies to tune.


Have you tried medium LLC AND a neg offset in bios and scalar 0?


----------



## StevieRay2

BHS1975 said:


> Have you tried medium LLC AND a neg offset in bios and scalar 0?


I don't seem to have offsets in bios unless the beta bios with kombo strike unlocks it?, and as for LLC I never seen my vcore go higher than 1.20v, I think during load it's around 1.16v? So I figured auto LLC was doing the job?
Also haven't tested scalar 0 yet, what does that actually do?


----------



## BHS1975

StevieRay2 said:


> I don't seem to have offsets in bios unless the beta bios with kombo strike unlocks it?, and as for LLC I never seen my vcore go higher than 1.20v, I think during load it's around 1.16v? So I figured auto LLC was doing the job?
> Also haven't tested scalar 0 yet, what does that actually do?


Keeps vcore down to around 1.12v and doesn't go full throttle when it doesn't need too. Cores max at 4350 in cb23 but single will still hit 4450 in games. Like when a map loads in BF2042 it doesn't go 100% load and shoot up to 72C.


----------



## Imprezzion

So, I can't really be bothered to read the full 125 pages but with the 7950x reviews being quite... Bad.. I may pick up a 5800X3D but I wanna ask if there's any boards out there which support BIOS level CO and PBO2 tuning already and if yes, which ones. I wanted to grab a B550 Unify-X due to 2 DIMM slots and better memory OC. I have a strong set of 3600C16 B-Die's which will do 3866 14-15-15 quite easily.


----------



## StevieRay2

BHS1975 said:


> Keeps vcore down to around 1.12v and doesn't go full throttle when it doesn't need too. Cores max at 4350 in cb23 but single will still hit 4450 in games. Like when a map loads in BF2042 it doesn't go 100% load and shoot up to 72C.


Maybe I'll try that out and see if I lose any fps. Your board you can do vcore offset in the bios? I thought the most we can do is the kombo strike on the beta bios'


----------



## bloot

Imprezzion said:


> So, I can't really be bothered to read the full 125 pages but with the 7950x reviews being quite... Bad.. I may pick up a 5800X3D but I wanna ask if there's any boards out there which support BIOS level CO and PBO2 tuning already and if yes, which ones. I wanted to grab a B550 Unify-X due to 2 DIMM slots and better memory OC. I have a strong set of 3600C16 B-Die's which will do 3866 14-15-15 quite easily.


@Verangry shared some nice bios mod for MSI boards here 5800X3D Owners and you can tune anything you can imagine, although not everything works.

MSI released beta bios for some motherboards only with combo strike (3 levels of CO) and undervolt, and I think Asus and Gigabyte do have undervolting options, but not CO, as far as I know, maybe they implemented it later.


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> Would 2x16GB sticks tune better on this than 4x8GB? 2 stick easier on the IMC? Planning to upgrade to some b-dies to tune.


Not a whole lot of difference between two DR and four SR sticks as far as the IMC is concerned, but two DR sticks is easier for a daisy chain board to handle.



StevieRay2 said:


> I don't seem to have offsets in bios unless the beta bios with kombo strike unlocks it?, and as for LLC I never seen my vcore go higher than 1.20v, I think during load it's around 1.16v? So I figured auto LLC was doing the job?
> Also haven't tested scalar 0 yet, what does that actually do?


The scalar setting allow one to adjust PBO's failures-in-time limit. I'm highly doubtful it can actually be set over 1x on the 5800X3D.

As for LLC, use the setting that provides the _most_ droop before inducing a differential in actual vs. effective clock speed under heavy load.


----------



## BHS1975

StevieRay2 said:


> Maybe I'll try that out and see if I lose any fps. Your board you can do vcore offset in the bios? I thought the most we can do is the kombo strike on the beta bios'


I have the ASUS B550-F and I'm using a -0.675 offset.


----------



## Dogzilla07

At this rate 5800x3D is gonna go down into history, as the most sought-after used part since Radeon VII. 125 pages on overclock forum here, compared to general activity lately, is akin to Crosshair VI thread and ryzen launch.

Eliminating memory bottle-neck as a factor is possibly the biggest boon to gaming since the invention of gaming, no reason to get anything that doesn't have x3D anymore.


----------



## Imprezzion

I can buy one in stock new for €454. Should I.. I'll probably use a mid range B550 board with it. I really see no reason to get a high end B550 or X570 board honestly. I only run 2 M.2's and a single 4.0 GPU and the X3D doesn't draw 250w or something as far as I know so I shouldn't need a B550-XE / Crosshair level VRM to run it.. maybe a ASUS B550-F or a MSI B550 Tomahawk would pair nicely with it.


----------



## ManniX-ITA

boogasbeowulf_6414 said:


> Your help would be much appreciated...


You can try recording the sensors with HWInfo while playing a session with one of these games.
Maybe not with AC Odyssey which @BNSoul says is known to have issues.

First enable snapshot pooling in HWInfo's settings and then start logging:










You can post the output here renaming it to .txt.


----------



## jootn2kx

It wasn't hard to predict that the 5800x3D would perform well against the 7000 series but after seeing the actual reviews damn, it actually destroyed everything in gaming benchmarks.
So glad I bought this cpu last month lol


----------



## Nighthog

bloot said:


> @Verangry shared some nice bios mod for MSI boards here 5800X3D Owners and you can tune anything you can imagine, although not everything works.
> 
> MSI released beta bios for some motherboards only with combo strike (3 levels of CO) and undervolt, and I think Asus and Gigabyte do have undervolting options, but not CO, as far as I know, maybe they implemented it later.


MSI has the -10, -20, -30 settings for CO with latest BIOS for Unify-X.
Aorus Xtreme does not have any CO or core voltage adjustments available. You can find the usual PBO XFR settings to lower board limits but they are locked from being increased from stock settings.
Gigabyte hasn't allowed to fine tune your X3D as other vendors have made with some workarounds to unlock.


----------



## ilmazzo

For a gaming only task the 3D still shines in heaven but you can't project this to say that Zen4 is a fail.... is a fail if you think you need a 16 cores/32 threads for hard gaming...

Zen4 is well above any other Zen3 and ADL parts....AND it allows to game at the top most of the time while being top at everything else too....

The funny part is that maybe raptor lake will take back the crown gaming most of the times but for 2-3 months since Zen43D will probably obliterate anything in that manner even after meteor lake I presume...and it will cost a kidney, of course....


----------



## OCmember

I hope they don't gimp the "7800X3D"


----------



## Nighthog

OCmember said:


> I hope they don't gimp the "7800X3D"


It's gonna be locked down like the 5800X3D most likely. Can't keep core thermals in check otherwise.


----------



## boogasbeowulf_6414

BNSoul said:


> Hi! Welcome!
> 
> The problem with AC Odyssey is well known and two-fold, 2022 Nvidia drivers in tandem with the last update to the game cause some CPU and GPU spikes specially when running beyond certain fps threshold.
> 
> Also, 80ºC while gaming is a bit too much I never get over 50-55 in most demanding titles. I suggest you a little experiment with PBO2 Tuner, set power limits to 76-60-90, FMAX (maximum boost) to just 4000 and a voltage curve of -15 for the two best cores and -25 for the rest, tell me how AC Odyssey runs under these conditions. Most "old" titles won't notice the difference.


Thank you for a quick response. Actually, as for temperatures, I was referring to Cinebench 23 - in games I never exceed 75 and only in ACO while for instance in Spiderman it stays pegged at around 65-68 degrees, which is still a bit on the high side compared to your results. But maybe my Dark Rock Pro 4 is the culprit here. Curious as it may seem when fiddling with PBO2 Tuner and with lower limits and offsets I get higher temperatures but possibly it is due to higher boost clocks maintained. Maybe ACO issue can be a pure coincidence attributed to the reasons you've just mentioned. Similar issue I also have in Cyberpunk 2077 but it seems to be a widespread issue after 1.60 patch, so I've heard.

Anyway I will test more, maybe you have any suggestions as to bios settings? Shall I try overclocking my ram? Never tried anything over xmp profile of 3200MHz. Is it worth it?


Nighthog said:


> MSI has the -10, -20, -30 settings for CO with latest BIOS for Unify-X.
> Aorus Xtreme does not have any CO or core voltage adjustments available. You can find the usual PBO XFR settings to lower board limits but they are locked from being increased from stock settings.
> Gigabyte hasn't allowed to fine tune your X3D as other vendors have made with some workarounds to unlock.





Nighthog said:


> MSI has the -10, -20, -30 settings for CO with latest BIOS for Unify-X.
> Aorus Xtreme does not have any CO or core voltage adjustments available. You can find the usual PBO XFR settings to lower board limits but they are locked from being increased from stock settings.
> Gigabyte hasn't allowed to fine tune your X3D as other vendors have made with some workarounds to unlock.





Nighthog said:


> MSI has the -10, -20, -30 settings for CO with latest BIOS for Unify-X.
> Aorus Xtreme does not have any CO or core voltage adjustments available. You can find the usual PBO XFR settings to lower board limits but they are locked from being increased from stock settings.
> Gigabyte hasn't allowed to fine tune your X3D as other vendors have made with some workarounds to unlock.


I have a Aorus x570 Ultra and I am able to adjust CPU vcore and vcore doc. They can be both raised and lowered and they stick after saving settings in bios. Obviously there's no CO and what strikes be as being odd settings such as CPPC, CPPC Preferred Cores or Global C-state Control can't be changed - maybe it a bug as whenever I change them after saving they revert to auto. I'm the latest bios - F36d. So adjustments on Gigabyte boards are hit and miss.


----------



## Nd4spdvn

boogasbeowulf_6414 said:


> I have a Aorus x570 Ultra and I am able to adjust CPU vcore and vcore doc.


I'm on a Gigabyte B550 Aorus Pro V2 latest beta F15d and have only vcore SOC and other voltages BUT no CPU vcore which I actually need bad as my Power Reporting deviation in R23 load is about 86-87% which means the board is underreporting the power needs of the 5800X3D thus cheating slightly by overvolting unnecessary the CPU. A CPU vcore negative offset would solve this nicely by allowing the CPU drawing just the right voltage to reach 4.45GHz under such loads (now at about 4.35-4.4Ghz) within the thermal envelope I have (D15, open bench).


----------



## StevieRay2

Blameless said:


> Not a whole lot of difference between two DR and four SR sticks as far as the IMC is concerned, but two DR sticks is easier for a daisy chain board to handle.
> 
> 
> 
> The scalar setting allow one to adjust PBO's failures-in-time limit. I'm highly doubtful it can actually be set over 1x on the 5800X3D.
> 
> As for LLC, use the setting that provides the _most_ droop before inducing a differential in actual vs. effective clock speed under heavy load.


Not quite understand what you mean for the LLC setting, what should I be seeing idle and vs lets say r23 in terms of vcore right now I'm around 1.14v idle and 1.18 r23, should I had higher LLC or lower? what should I be getting out of it? making the idle and load vcore look the same?


Also what vcore offset would you guys recommend for this CPU?


----------



## ilmazzo

Nighthog said:


> It's gonna be locked down like the 5800X3D most likely. Can't keep core thermals in check otherwise.


yep

the only "hope" here is since the node skrink they can keep up with 1,2v ranges in the 5ghz mark, so still some hundreds mhz boost below vanilla skus but still better in everything that rely on cache...I expect a rework of the added cache modules too but a less tjmax aim for the boost algorithm (maybe 85c instead of the actual 95c)


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> Not quite understand what you mean for the LLC setting, what should I be seeing idle and vs lets say r23 in terms of vcore right now I'm around 1.14v idle and 1.18 r23, should I had higher LLC or lower? what should I be getting out of it? making the idle and load vcore look the same?


Idle vcore doesn't matter as it's neither reflective of any boost state nor any meaningful load. Reported voltage in general is a poor way to evaluate LLC as the CPU will request different levels of voltage based on clocks and COs.

On MSI boards a larger value for the LLC mode is less LLC/more droop. Start at mode 5 then run a very high continuous load (like y-cruncher) with HWiNFO set to snapshot polling. Watch reported core and effective clocks. If effective clock falls below core by more than a few MHz, you have too much droop.



StevieRay2 said:


> Also what vcore offset would you guys recommend for this CPU?


If your COs and LLC are tuned correctly, no offset.



Nd4spdvn said:


> I'm on a Gigabyte B550 Aorus Pro V2 latest beta F15d and have only vcore SOC and other voltages BUT no CPU vcore which I actually need bad as my Power Reporting deviation in R23 load is about 86-87% which means the board is underreporting the power needs of the 5800X3D thus cheating slightly by overvolting unnecessary the CPU. A CPU vcore negative offset would solve this nicely by allowing the CPU drawing just the right voltage to reach 4.45GHz under such loads (now at about 4.35-4.4Ghz) within the thermal envelope I have (D15, open bench).


Does your board have a vddcrvddfull_scale_current setting somewhere? Adjusting this will adjust reported power.


----------



## StevieRay2

Blameless said:


> Idle vcore doesn't matter as it's neither reflective of any boost state nor any meaningful load. Reported voltage in general is a poor way to evaluate LLC as the CPU will request different levels of voltage based on clocks and COs.
> 
> On MSI boards a larger value for the LLC mode is less LLC/more droop. Start at mode 5 then run a very high continuous load (like y-cruncher) with HWiNFO set to snapshot polling. Watch reported core and effective clocks. If effective clock falls below core by more than a few MHz, you have too much droop.
> 
> 
> 
> If your COs and LLC are tuned correctly, no offset.
> 
> 
> 
> Does your board have a vddcrvddfull_scale_current setting somewhere? Adjusting this will adjust reported power.


So look at perf and effective clocks during a load, should I also look at the vcore? seems even at 1.18v or so isn't that considered low for this CPU that maxes out at 1.35? or can it even go lower and be stable? should I be aiming for a number?
And start at LLC 5 then if perf and core still match try LLC 6 then 7 etc? in the end this should run my CPU cooler?


----------



## Luggage

Nighthog said:


> It's gonna be locked down like the 5800X3D most likely. Can't keep core thermals in check otherwise.


Hope they can use thermal and current limits instead of locking everything down, the new 95C boost limit gives me a little hope at least.


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> So look at perf and effective clocks during a load, should I also look at the vcore? seems even at 1.18v or so isn't that considered low for this CPU that maxes out at 1.35? or can it even go lower and be stable? should I be aiming for a number?


You'll never see 1.35v except in very lightly threaded loads with no CO offset. 1.18v in R23 is pretty typical, but again, this depends on what clock speeds are actually being reached and what the COs are. Voltage comparisons are only relevant at known clocks, in a known fixed load, at specific COs.



StevieRay2 said:


> And start at LLC 5 then if perf and core still match try LLC 6 then 7 etc? in the end this should run my CPU cooler?


Either cooler or faster (if you had so much droop that it was reducing performance), near full load.


----------



## Fight Game

was just checking out some gaming benchmark comparisons between the 7950x vs our 5800x3d.....and ya, I'll definitely be sticking with this one for awhile. Granted, when the new video cards drop, they might require a little more out of the cpu's. but my water cooled 6900xt is running everything great. For the first time in years, I actually feel like I'm finally at a point where I probably really wont need anything for atleast a year or quite possibly more


----------



## StevieRay2

Blameless said:


> You'll never see 1.35v except in very lightly threaded loads with no CO offset. 1.18v in R23 is pretty typical, but again, this depends on what clock speeds are actually being reached and what the COs are. Voltage comparisons are only relevant at known clocks, in a known fixed load, at specific COs.
> 
> 
> 
> Either cooler or faster (if you had so much droop that it was reducing performance), near full load.


Right now with LLC on auto r23 multi my effective and perf are matching, around 4375mhz -25OC, 1.17v to 1.18v at 80-81c.
So will I actually see some benefits with LLC as it is? There's room for improvement?


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> Right now with LLC on auto r23 multi my effective and perf are matching, around 4375mhz -25OC, 1.17v to 1.18v at 80-81c.
> So will I actually see some benefits with LLC as it is? There's room for improvement?


If Cinebench R23 is the most demanding thing you run, probably not. Auto on MSI is normally already the highest droop setting.


----------



## StevieRay2

Blameless said:


> If Cinebench R23 is the most demanding thing you run, probably not. Auto on MSI is normally already the highest droop setting.


Most I do is gaming, only time I use things like R23, ycruncher etc was just to check if PBO2 CO was stable. In games I mostly get mid 70c to 80c depending on the game. Lower would be nicer but not sure if LLC will help that in the end and -25CO I guess helped. Some games are around 50c but hardly being used, but more demanding titles at 1080p high frame rate the CPU surely tries to get up to 80c


----------



## BNSoul

Look at how Intel compares the 5800X3D to their latest 13900K space heater, it looks like they respect the little Zen 3D.


----------



## BCB57

Blameless said:


> If Cinebench R23 is the most demanding thing you run, probably not. Auto on MSI is normally already the highest droop setting.


A datapoint that may be useful for those on MSI boards: I'm running "Kombo Strike 3" (-30 CO all cores), LLC Auto, TDP 105 and a -0.0500 undervolt on the X570 Unify with 1.2.0.7 BIOS. Recently reduced the undervolt from -0.0625 as the local ambient temps have dropped. I have PBO2 Tuner available but am not using it at present.

With these settings the 5800X3D just touches 80C during the last few seconds of CB23 multicore, scoring 15,100+ with background apps running including Nextcloud, FanControl and my AIDA 64 Sensor Panel. Even with these cooler ambient temps, I still need the undervolt to keep from throttling (i.e. frequency drop when temps exceed 80C) on the CB23 benchmark. Gaming temps are generally below 70. I've done plenty of experimenting and this seems to be optimal with my current hardware.

(Edit) Update: After mulling over Blameless's comments (post #2503) I am now using no voltage offset and LLC 5 vs. "Auto." Performance is pretty much identical to - 0.0500 and LLC Auto on benchmarks and temps are unchanged as well, but intuitively it seems like single core (or anything less than flat-out multicore) performance might benefit from receiving a bit more voltage with these settings. At any rate, this seems like a more elegant solution and I'll stick with it for now.


----------



## StevieRay2

BCB57 said:


> A datapoint that may be useful for those on MSI boards: I'm running "Kombo Strike 3" (-30 CO all cores), LLC Auto, TDP 105 and a -0.0500 undervolt on the X570 Unify with 1.2.0.7 BIOS. Recently reduced the undervolt from -0.0625 as the local ambient temps have dropped. I have PBO2 Tuner available but am not using it at present.
> 
> With these settings the 5800X3D just touches 80C during the last few seconds of CB23 multicore, scoring 15,100+ with background apps running including Nextcloud, FanControl and my AIDA 64 Sensor Panel. Even with these cooler ambient temps, I still need the undervolt to keep from throttling (i.e. frequency drop when temps exceed 80C) on the CB23 benchmark. Gaming temps are generally below 70. I've done plenty of experimenting and this seems to be optimal with my current hardware.


What other changes do these Kombo Strikes do behind the scenes just - CO? is Strike 2 -20 CO then? Maybe I'll try 2 and a 0.0500 undervolt and see how temps and performance compares in gaming


----------



## BCB57

StevieRay2 said:


> What other changes do these Kombo Strikes do behind the scenes just - CO? is Strike 2 -20 CO then? Maybe I'll try 2 and a 0.0500 undervolt and see how temps and performance compares in gaming


Good question about Kombo Strike, as the MSI description is typically vague. I know it does -30, -20 and -10 for KS 3, 2 and 1 respectively, because the PBO2 Tuner app will display those values. As far as what else may be getting tweaked... who knows? Nothing obvious that I've noticed, though. As far as your plans go, I recommend KS 3 if your system is stable with it. If you're stable at anything above -20 CO, then use the PBO2 Tuner app with the highest negative COs you can get away with.


----------



## StevieRay2

BCB57 said:


> Good question about Kombo Strike, as the MSI description is typically vague. I know it does -30, -20 and -10 for KS 3, 2 and 1 respectively, because the PBO2 Tuner app will display those values. As far as what else may be getting tweaked... who knows? Nothing obvious that I've noticed, though. As far as your plans go, I recommend KS 3 if your system is stable with it. If you're stable at anything above -20 CO, then use the PBO2 Tuner app with the highest negative COs you can get away with.


Yeah I'm using -25 CO right now, things still get a little toasty while gaming, I suppose I could try -30 or Kombo 3 but these -CO's don't seem to make my CPU run that much cooler, going from -10 to -20 shaved off maybe 3c with R23 Multi. I guess I can try a slight negative voltage too if it doesn't affect boost or performance. I think this CPU really pushes my D15 to the limit, I make the fans go full 100% when the CPU hits 70c and some games it gets to 77-78c.


----------



## thesebastian

Blameless said:


> You'll never see 1.35v except in very lightly threaded loads with no CO offset. 1.18v in R23 is pretty typical, but again, this depends on what clock speeds are actually being reached and what the COs are. Voltage comparisons are only relevant at known clocks, in a known fixed load, at specific COs.
> 
> 
> 
> Either cooler or faster (if you had so much droop that it was reducing performance), near full load.


Yeah for me R23 it is running at 1.188v at 4.45Ghz on each core. (with CO -15 best core and -30 other 7 cores). 77+C~ CPU temp


----------



## sentlon

i plan to get a used x570 MB for the 5800x3D. but i am concern that the 5800x3D will not boot on the x570 MB.
some how i do not have any old 5000 or 3000 series of ryzen cpu to do the bios update.
my question is the 5800x3D must have specific bios for the mb to work ? perhaps if the mb support 5000 series will boot as well ?


----------



## This is a hat.

I came to this thread to see people's re-evaluation of 5800X3D.


----------



## Bamidrol

sentlon said:


> i plan to get a used x570 MB for the 5800x3D. but i am concern that the 5800x3D will not boot on the x570 MB.
> some how i do not have any old 5000 or 3000 series of ryzen cpu to do the bios update.
> my question is the 5800x3D must have specific bios for the mb to work ? perhaps if the mb support 5000 series will boot as well ?


It will boot if it has any bios that boots other 5000 series cpus. Just make sure to update it to the latest to allow the 5800X3D to boost further than 3.4ghz. You'll be okay.
If you really wanna make sure you wont need another cpu to do a bios update first, get a motherboard that allows for updates without a cpu installed. I think gigabyte has some of those with Q-flash or whatever its called.


----------



## Nd4spdvn

Blameless said:


> Does your board have a vddcrvddfull_scale_current setting somewhere? Adjusting this will adjust reported power.


Thanks for suggesting. Unfortunately, my board does not offer this, my understanding is that MSI boards have these settings but others probably not (not fully sure though). And, yup, from what I read it'll resolve this properly unlike my negative offset vcore which is more like an workaround.


----------



## th3illusiveman

This is a hat. said:


> I came to this thread to see people's re-evaluation of 5800X3D.


Re-evaluation? I think alot of us bought this chip cause we knew it had AMD FineWine® Tech built in for gaming. AMD are even scared to put in in their own benchmarks for the new 7000 series cause it's too good lol.


----------



## bloot

This is a hat. said:


> I came to this thread to see people's re-evaluation of 5800X3D.


Isn't that what Intel did yesterday?


----------



## Blameless

Nd4spdvn said:


> Thanks for suggesting. Unfortunately, my board does not offer this, my understanding is that MSI boards have these settings but others probably not (not fully sure though). And, yup, from what I read it'll resolve this properly unlike my negative offset vcore which is more like an workaround.


My MSI and ASRock boards have this setting, but I'd have to double check my Gigabyte board.



th3illusiveman said:


> Re-evaluation? I think alot of us bought this chip cause we knew it had AMD FineWine® Tech built in for gaming. AMD are even scared to put in in their own benchmarks for the new 7000 series cause it's too good lol.


Well, I'm not so sure about the whole fine-wine hypothesis, but after seeing how significant the impact of higher FCLK + faster memory was on my 5800X in many games, it was hard to imagine a radical increase in L3 hit rate not being a big deal.


----------



## BCB57

sentlon said:


> i plan to get a used x570 MB for the 5800x3D. but i am concern that the 5800x3D will not boot on the x570 MB.
> some how i do not have any old 5000 or 3000 series of ryzen cpu to do the bios update.
> my question is the 5800x3D must have specific bios for the mb to work ? perhaps if the mb support 5000 series will boot as well ?


*Edit -- Disregard: I think you already got a better answer! *Your 5800X3D MIGHT boot with an earlier BIOS (probably someone here knows for sure), but I think you need one that conforms to AGESA 1.2.0.6b or newer for it to perform properly. If I were you I'd make sure the used board meets that criterion, or have a standard 5000 series on hand to boot and update the board.


----------



## BCB57

StevieRay2 said:


> Yeah I'm using -25 CO right now, things still get a little toasty while gaming, I suppose I could try -30 or Kombo 3 but these -CO's don't seem to make my CPU run that much cooler, going from -10 to -20 shaved off maybe 3c with R23 Multi. I guess I can try a slight negative voltage too if it doesn't affect boost or performance. I think this CPU really pushes my D15 to the limit, I make the fans go full 100% when the CPU hits 70c and some games it gets to 77-78c.


Yes, recommend you try a negative 0.0500v offset and see what that does for you.
(Edit) Either that or try a higher numerical (=more voltage droop) LLC setting. I just switched from -0.0500 vcore and Auto LLC to Auto vcore and LLC Mode 5. Extremely similar results overall.


----------



## thesebastian

Blameless said:


> Does your board have a vddcrvddfull_scale_current setting somewhere? Adjusting this will adjust reported power.


In my motherboard I think I have this value but I never touched it, is it possible to read it from Windows with some app?
(I lost the VCORE offset after installing the 5800X3D, but i'm using CO now).


----------



## Blameless

thesebastian said:


> In my motherboard I think I have this value but I never touched it, is it possible to read it from Windows with some app?


An NVRAM dump might read it, but if you haven't ever changed the setting it will probably be on auto, which means you'd need to experiment with manual values anyway.


----------



## usoldier

Hey guys i need to buy 32gb Ram to pair with a 5800X3D what do you recomend that is stable ? Iam not overclocking just want to run it stock for gamming.


----------



## Petrarca

usoldier said:


> Hey guys i need to buy 32gb Ram to pair with a 5800X3D what do you recomend that is stable ? Iam not overclocking just want to run it stock for gamming.


Anything 3600-3800 lover timings is better as usual. Try see Crucial Ballistix best value/$.


----------



## thesebastian

Blameless said:


> An NVRAM dump might read it, but if you haven't ever changed the setting it will probably be on auto, which means you'd need to experiment with manual values anyway.


I did a quick test. After changing the setting from AUTO to MANUAL the motherboard was defaulting the vddcr*vdd*full_scale_current to *168 *( so I assume my motherboard applies *168 *by default).

While on stock my power deviation in cinebench / prime95 small ftts is around 108%-112%.
I tried *200 *(because I read 200 in the forum in some topic). This puts power deviation at 130% in R23.
Then I tried *150*, power deviation ended as 97%~
Then *155*, power deviation was at 100.7% (and 101% after applying Curve Optimizer with "PBO2 Tuner.exe" so I think CO barely impacts this) in R23.
Prime 95 v30.8 Small FTTs with *155 *has 102-104%~. (this is thermal throttling at 90C at 120-125W PPT).


Should I leave it at 155 or go back to stock? Is there a stock AMD recommended value for this?
There is also another setting "Vddcr*Soc*full" I haven't played with that one.


----------



## Petrarca

Hey guys, what motherbords apart msi support vcore bios undervolt? I'm planning to get b550 because I will need pcie 4 soon.


PS. Recived Arctic service kit for my freeser 420. Replaced yesterday, insta -10c on cpu. Old copper plate fins were preaty dirty and clogged.


----------



## usoldier

Petrarca said:


> Anything 3600-3800 lover timings is better as usual. Try see Crucial Ballistix best value/$.


Thanks Petrarca


----------



## usoldier

Sry I forgot to ask, how many 2 sticks or 4 sticks?


----------



## Petrarca

usoldier said:


> Sry I forgot to ask, how many 2 sticks or 4 sticks?


2


----------



## StevieRay2

BCB57 said:


> Yes, recommend you try a negative 0.0500v offset and see what that does for you.
> (Edit) Either that or try a higher numerical (=more voltage droop) LLC setting. I just switched from -0.0500 vcore and Auto LLC to Auto vcore and LLC Mode 5. Extremely similar results overall.


I guess I'll try LLC then, always had it on auto, maybe I'll try out 5 or 6 and see if that makes a temp and/or vcore difference

Edit: Looks like LLC 5(MSI board) and 6 still seem to bring my vcore higher during load than on auto.
Seems -0.050v seems to work a little better, temps get the same in r23 multi but uses slightly less vcore, maybe I'll try 0.060v


----------



## snkeyez95

Am I doing this right? I play mostly MSFS (flight sim) and recently swapped to the 5800x3D. I am a novice 'tinkerer' at heart, so I couldn't resist searching for a bit more performance. I've been reading through many of the posts on this thread to try and understand what I can. I'm running the BIOS recommended settings, and DOCP settings for RAM, with power limits at 114/75/115 and -25 -25 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30. My R23 results very slightly from run-to-run, but I've managed 15,101 max, but typically in the 15,050 range. CoreCycler passed an overnight 12-hour run (haven't tested -30 on all yet on corecyler since the above settings yielded the best R23 score). Updated BIOS with no CMOS reset, current ASUS X570 TUF Wi-Fi BIOS, current AMD chipset drivers, existing Windows 10 install. No other changes.

Not exactly sure what my goals are other than maximizing performance with temps within limits, if not better. A few other items that may or may not matter are 68-degree ambient during the included picture, AIO cooler, and HWINFO setup as has been recommended.

Results as expected or room for improvement? Anything I can do or tinker with to squeeze any extra? What's a good technique for finding your power and curve settings? What order do you try and tweak? Power first and then curve, or other way around? Do you use R23 to determine incremental improvements while tweaking?

Thank you in advance and thanks to this community for all the helpful information. 

*picture is after a 30 R23 run. I reset hwinfo clock with about 10 minutes to go to capture averages. Clock and effective clock pegged at 4450.0 and sometimes 4449.9 for the duration.


----------



## tabascosauz

Anyone know if there's an update for the PBO2 tool? It can still successfully modify power and CO on my 5800X3D, but it all resets after every boot. It's quite obvious as at -30 all core it tops out about 81W 4450MHz all core, whereas stock it's about 92W 4250MHz all core. RM must have been updated as well to remove CO control for 5800X3D since it's all there in the exact same RM version on my 5900X.

Do I just have to accept that I have to manually set it after every boot?

5800X3D on C8 Impact with latest 4201 BIOS (AGESA 1207). There's no newer BIOSes. CPPC on but preferred cores off as recommended in post 1.


----------



## 67091

Hi guys
Can i get the link to the latest PBO2 Tuner for the 5800X3D.
Thanks


----------



## Frosted racquet

tabascosauz said:


> Anyone know if there's an update for the PBO2 tool? It can still successfully modify power and CO on my 5800X3D, but it all resets after every boot.


You can set a scheduled task to run PBO2 tuner with commandline options









CoreCycler - tool for testing Curve Optimizer settings


If I may ask, why do you say this. I'm asing as on my MSI Mag X570 Ace I am using Agesa 1.2.0.7 without any issues As far as I know there's still the VID limit to 1.425V above 140A EDC. It does hurt dramatically performances in MT (clocks are higher of course due to the low power). Unless...




www.overclock.net




@angushades here's the link, not sure if it's the latest version, someone should confirm


----------



## StevieRay2

Question to anyone,
Using an - offset 0.0625v -25 CO when I run r23 multi my perf goes 4440mhz but effective is around 4 to 8mhz less, my temps are around 77c so a bit lower, do you think this 4-8mhz is anything I should try and bother to fix or it's not a big deal at all?
Some ycruncher tests they are able to both match the 4450mhz boost but some they don't, expecially ones that hit over 80c then effective is like 10mhz lower, normal? But some tests are 80-100mhz different so is that clock stretching caused by my offset or co or both can cause it or is this normal with stress tests?

-25 offset 0.0625v seems to drop my temps 4-5c in games, not too bad, not sure if performance is effected or not but still seems fine and high fps. Still just wondering about r23 and perf and effective being a bit off from each other does that mean it's just not getting enough vcore if they don't match? Only way to fix it is raise my - offset a bit or can higher CO fix that too?


----------



## Blameless

thesebastian said:


> Should I leave it at 155 or go back to stock? Is there a stock AMD recommended value for this?


The value seems different on every brand, possibly every board model.

I calibrate mine to 100% minimum deviation during R23 or CPU-Z stress test (which are both remarkably close). This is 236 on my ASRock board with -30 all core CO and my 5800X3D sample.



thesebastian said:


> There is also another setting "Vddcr*Soc*full" I haven't played with that one.


I leave this on auto as there is no good way to isolate the SoC when testing the deviation and the power differential between what the SMU and VRM report for SoC power is too low to fuss over.


----------



## bloot

That vddcrvddfull_scale_current setting is an Asrock thing only, right? I can't seem to find it on the mod bios for the B550 Tomahawk


----------



## StevieRay2

Does anyone know what at the same temps Kombo Strike 2 which shows -20 CO doesn't boost to 4450mhz in R23 Multi but my normal PBO2 -25 CO does? Both temps are around 77-78c the Kombo one just never hits 4450mhz. Both using -0.050v offset.


----------



## tabascosauz

Anyone have any tips for trying to reach 1900MHz Fabric on 5800X3D?

I have dual rank Bdie I've been running with my 5900X for a long time, which runs it well at 3800CL14 using about 1.11V SOC for 3800, no WHEAs. Can boot 4000 for show but 3800 is rock solid daily. The B-die itself is fine, about 1.42V for 3600CL14, 1.54V for 3800CL14.

I can't POST 3800 with 5800X3D - I just get a 07 code from my Impact. The 5800X3D scales similarly to my 5900X on VSOC (easily does about 1.03V at 1800MHz), so I'm not sure why only the 5800X3D seemingly hits a brick wall at 3800. I've tried:

3733 is fine. 1.1V. That's what I'm running right now - I can't really make up a ghetto 3800 by doing BCLK because Impact is X570, and I have NVMe drives.
More VSOC - nope
More PLL - nope
ProcODT - played with a few common ones I've used in the past, 36.9/40/43/53/60 all don't work
More IOD - nope
More VDDP - nope
Running my more relaxed CL15 or CL16 profiles at 3800 - nope
Trying some looser timings and slower tRFC - nope
More VDIMM (not sure why it'd need it) - nope
BIOSes - only two to choose from 4006 and 4201, no change
Haven't seen any Event 19s (Bus/Interconnect). On both my 3700X and 5900X they would start showing occasional 19s, then rampant 19s, in the few FCLK steps before they stopped booting altogether. This one doesn't seem to get any Bus/Interconnect at 3733, then just refuses to train 3800.

Is this just a normal occurrence for 5800X3Ds, did I just get a dud IOD, or is there something I'm missing?


----------



## Nd4spdvn

Blameless said:


> My MSI and ASRock boards have this setting, but I'd have to double check my Gigabyte board.


Thank you, I would really appreciate if you could check your Gigabyte board. I did look for vddcr*vdd*full_scale_current in my bios quite a few times but could not see any similar setting. I would even be willing to install a modified BIOS if it exposes this setting, but sadly I have no experience in how to mod bioses and not sure even if the Gigabyte bios is open to such actions.


----------



## koji

tabascosauz said:


> Anyone have any tips for trying to reach 1900MHz Fabric on 5800X3D?
> 
> I have dual rank Bdie I've been running with my 5900X for a long time, which runs it well at 3800CL14 using about 1.11V SOC for 3800, no WHEAs. Can boot 4000 for show but 3800 is rock solid daily. The B-die itself is fine, about 1.42V for 3600CL14, 1.54V for 3800CL14.


Hey man, I just moved from a 5900x running 1900fclk/3800mhz as well and I also can't get it stable. I landed on 1870/3740 which it will do without trouble.

Installed it yesterday, moved BCLK to 102 on my Dark Hero, all core CO -30 and I landed on a CB23 multiscore of 15402. Pretty happy with that and I doubt I'll spend much more time messing around with it. Corecycler is running atm to check if it's somewhat stable. Not planning to spend 3 months or longer on it as I did with my 5900x...










It's also boosting to 4641 mhz which is enough for me. (atm anyway )










There's probably some wiggle room in my RAM timings but I doubt I'll bother. Pretty fun chip, straightforward.


----------



## tabascosauz

@koji glad you like it, I quite like mine too. Just a little bummed because I was hoping this would be my 4000 daily chip. My 5900X boots 4000 but spams WHEAs, and it obvs would be a walk in the park for my 5700G but I run 4333 single rank in there. 3733 is like the same as my crappy former 3700X, no fun

It's not that I can't get 3800. Like, straight up will not boot, period. 3600 and 3733 both work completely fine, no sign that it's running out of room

That said those clocks look a little weird? I thought Fmax was hard locked at 4550, you can change it but only in one direction (-)? I'm at 15000 but with -25 and -0.05V and 97W thru the tuner tool, I'm not looking for rendering perf out of this chip , it almost loses to my 5700G in R23 lmao


----------



## koji

tabascosauz said:


> @koji glad you like it, I quite like mine too. Just a little bummed because I was hoping this would be my 4000 daily chip. My 5900X boots 4000 but spams WHEAs, and it obvs would be a walk in the park for my 5700G but I run 4333 single rank in there. 3733 is like the same as my crappy former 3700X, no fun
> 
> It's not that I can't get 3800. Like, straight up will not boot, period. 3600 and 3733 both work completely fine, no sign that it's running out of room
> 
> That said those clocks look a little weird? I thought Fmax was hard locked at 4550, you can change it but only in one direction (-)? I'm at 15000 but with -25 and -0.05V and 97W thru the tuner tool, I'm not looking for rendering perf out of this chip , it almost loses to my 5700G in R23 lmao


Yeah I feel you, I spent a lot of money on that 4x8 3800mhz C14 kit back in the day so I'd love to use it to it's full potential. Same deal here with the not booting, fclk 1900 just throws the 07 error straight away. From my experience on the platform and reading people's posts with those troubles in the past I just decided not to bother with it and consolidate at flck 1870...

Those clocks are due to my modest BCLK OC. 100*45,5 = 4550, 102*45,5 = 4641. There's some wiggle room with that base clock if you can change it on your board. Don't forget to put "Core Performance Boost" on "Enabled" (instead of Auto) when you change your BCLK or it won't boost.


----------



## spajdr

tabascosauz said:


> Anyone have any tips for trying to reach 1900MHz Fabric on 5800X3D?
> 
> I have dual rank Bdie I've been running with my 5900X for a long time, which runs it well at 3800CL14 using about 1.11V SOC for 3800, no WHEAs. Can boot 4000 for show but 3800 is rock solid daily. The B-die itself is fine, about 1.42V for 3600CL14, 1.54V for 3800CL14.
> 
> I can't POST 3800 with 5800X3D - I just get a 07 code from my Impact. The 5800X3D scales similarly to my 5900X on VSOC (easily does about 1.03V at 1800MHz), so I'm not sure why only the 5800X3D seemingly hits a brick wall at 3800. I've tried:
> 
> 3733 is fine. 1.1V. That's what I'm running right now - I can't really make up a ghetto 3800 by doing BCLK because Impact is X570, and I have NVMe drives.
> More VSOC - nope
> More PLL - nope
> ProcODT - played with a few common ones I've used in the past, 36.9/40/43/53/60 all don't work
> More IOD - nope
> More VDDP - nope
> Running my more relaxed CL15 or CL16 profiles at 3800 - nope
> Trying some looser timings and slower tRFC - nope
> More VDIMM (not sure why it'd need it) - nope
> BIOSes - only two to choose from 4006 and 4201, no change
> Haven't seen any Event 19s (Bus/Interconnect). On both my 3700X and 5900X they would start showing occasional 19s, then rampant 19s, in the few FCLK steps before they stopped booting altogether. This one doesn't seem to get any Bus/Interconnect at 3733, then just refuses to train 3800.
> 
> Is this just a normal occurrence for 5800X3Ds, did I just get a dud IOD, or is there something I'm missing?


That was not so hard to set for me, but 1933 IF is a different story, that gives 2-3 WHEA errors per minute, I was unable to get it stable. Also, I have a different RAM kit (with Micron chips).
Anyway, I would recommend checking Zen 3 X3D tab here for any tips. As you can see some people were also unable to hit 1900 IF stable.
Zen RAM OC Leaderboards - Google Sheets


----------



## Blameless

Nd4spdvn said:


> Thank you, I would really appreciate if you could check your Gigabyte board. I did look for vddcr*vdd*full_scale_current in my bios quite a few times but could not see any similar setting. I would even be willing to install a modified BIOS if it exposes this setting, but sadly I have no experience in how to mod bioses and not sure even if the Gigabyte bios is open to such actions.


My X570 Elite Wifi doesn't have the option, but I'm also on slightly older firmware as it's got a 3950X in it.


----------



## tabascosauz

spajdr said:


> That was not so hard to set for me, but 1933 IF is a different story, that gives 2-3 WHEA errors per minute, I was unable to get it stable. Also, I have a different RAM kit (with Micron chips).
> Anyway, I would recommend checking Zen 3 X3D tab here for any tips. As you can see some people were also unable to hit 1900 IF stable.
> Zen RAM OC Leaderboards - Google Sheets


That's what confuses me, 1900 stable then 1933 regular WHEAs then 1966-2000 insufferable WHEAs is what I'd expect from my 5900X. My APUs don't do WHEA reporting but they give me plenty of indications in the leadup as well. But I'm just up against a wall here, no hints of difficulty whatsoever at 3733.

Thanks for the spreadsheet - I gotta get in there with some of my 5700G results!


----------



## bloot

bloot said:


> That vddcrvddfull_scale_current setting is an Asrock thing only, right? I can't seem to find it on the mod bios for the B550 Tomahawk


OK found it on latest MSI official stable bios


----------



## Jabdah

@ bloot

Thanks for the Bios information. The version is different from the one on the german support page. 









German webpage









International Webpage...

Suxx major that both versions are not the same...

Mail to MSI is on its way...

Yours
Frank


----------



## thesebastian

Blameless said:


> The value seems different on every brand, possibly every board model.
> 
> I calibrate mine to 100% minimum deviation during R23 or CPU-Z stress test (which are both remarkably close). This is 236 on my ASRock board with -30 all core CO and my 5800X3D sample.


Yeah it seems so. We both have ASRock but in my B450 ASRock the 155 value is closer to 100% and for you 236.
(Maybe it's related to other stuff like ram speed?)

The PPT in R23 is 104W and deviation 101.7%~
The PPT in CPU-Z normal Benchmark "Stress CPU" is 92W and deviation is 102%

Thanks I think I'll use CPU-Z to test this from now on. (much colder than R23 or P95 to test this, so it stays away from throttling).

I'll probably change this to 154 or 153 (so it's closer to 100.00%) and leave it there.


----------



## StevieRay2

With the MSI bios's that have Kombo Strike do they also have TDC EDC somewhere in the bios(I know there's the PBO2 program in Windows)? Can only find PPT.
Also people talking about lowering their TDP? "Dropped my 105w tdp CPU to 88w" etc, What setting is that overwall or is that not something us 3D owners have access too?
With temps being equal is it normal for -15 all core CO not to it multicore boost in r23 multi yet -25 all core CO can? Figured the difference between both was temps but both are around 75c

I feel like kombo strike 2 uses more vcore voltage than just using the pbo2 program at the same -20 CO.


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, they put the 5800X3D on sale for €439 locally and the Crosshair VIII Hero for €306 so I convinced a buddy of mine to buy it lol. He'd been looking for an upgrade for a while and wanted 7000 but I said hell no for this price keep your b-die ddr4 and slap it in this. So he did.. 

Now begins the wait to see if they actually had stock enough to ship it and we have to re do his whole hardline water-cooling now as the tubes will probably not line up from his current build lol..


----------



## 67091

Hmm , fresh install of Windows 11 and now PBO2 won’t startup correctly with the commands given. I hate Windows.


----------



## d0mmie

angushades said:


> Hmm , fresh install of Windows 11 and now PBO2 won’t startup correctly with the commands given. I hate Windows.


Works fine for me. How exactly are you starting it up?

I just used this guide, specifically section 6:








How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner/README.md at main · PrimeO7/How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner


Get the Most out of your 5800X3D using PBO Curve Optimizer! - How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner/README.md at main · PrimeO7/How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2...




github.com


----------



## zbug

Hi there!

Just switch from a 5900x to a 5800x3D (I mainly game on my machine) with the following hardware:
Asus X470 prime (latest bios)
2x16 GSKILL 3200MHZC14 (not the NEO kit, the old original one which should be BDIE)

I saw the Power plans on this page: Ryzen Custom Power Plans for Windows 10 (Balanced and... . I am on Windows 11 22H2. Unsure which one is the recommended one for best boost clock and gaming? (I do not care about power consumption)

I have set the recommended bios settings from page 1 and using PBO Tuner with -30 all cores. I have not touched anything on the 2nd tab of the app, unsure if I should since nothing was mentioned?

I see all cores boosting at 4442mhz (for some whatever reason, my bus clock is stuck at 99.8)

I never ever see it go to 4550. 

Any suggestions/tweaks I might have missed that prevent it from boosting all the way?

Cheers


----------



## ManniX-ITA

zbug said:


> I saw the Power plans on this page: Ryzen Custom Power Plans for Windows 10 (Balanced and... . I am on Windows 11 22H2. Unsure which one is the recommended one for best boost clock and gaming? (I do not care about power consumption)


Seems the Snappy profile is considered the best for the 3D.
You can try the Ultimate as well. Not sure if someone really tested it against the Snappy.
I'd try with a vCore negative offset, seems many had positive results with boosting and performances.



zbug said:


> Any suggestions/tweaks I might have missed that prevent it from boosting all the way?


It's very often something running in background like iCUE or RGB lighting software.
Kill everything and try with BoostTester in my signature.


----------



## zbug

ManniX-ITA said:


> Seems the Snappy profile is considered the best for the 3D.
> You can try the Ultimate as well. Not sure if someone really tested it against the Snappy.
> I'd try with a vCore negative offset, seems many had positive results with boosting and performances.
> 
> 
> 
> It's very often something running in background like iCUE or RGB lighting software.
> Kill everything and try with BoostTester in my signature.


Thanks for the quick reply!

I will try the snappy profile/ultimate and see which one behaves best (note that, in that topic, it says that a certain slider should show up, but it's not the case, might be a Windows 11 thing, so in either cases, I leave the power mode at Best Performance there)

I'll also give a try with vcore negative offset, i'll do some research as I have not seen what are some recommended starting values, I would guess something like -0.05


----------



## 67091

d0mmie said:


> Works fine for me. How exactly are you starting it up?
> 
> I just used this guide, specifically section 6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner/README.md at main · PrimeO7/How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner
> 
> 
> Get the Most out of your 5800X3D using PBO Curve Optimizer! - How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner/README.md at main · PrimeO7/How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> github.com


It's working after I turned off Core isolation. Thanks anyways.


----------



## BHS1975

I


tabascosauz said:


> Anyone have any tips for trying to reach 1900MHz Fabric on 5800X3D?
> 
> I have dual rank Bdie I've been running with my 5900X for a long time, which runs it well at 3800CL14 using about 1.11V SOC for 3800, no WHEAs. Can boot 4000 for show but 3800 is rock solid daily. The B-die itself is fine, about 1.42V for 3600CL14, 1.54V for 3800CL14.
> 
> I can't POST 3800 with 5800X3D - I just get a 07 code from my Impact. The 5800X3D scales similarly to my 5900X on VSOC (easily does about 1.03V at 1800MHz), so I'm not sure why only the 5800X3D seemingly hits a brick wall at 3800. I've tried:
> 
> 3733 is fine. 1.1V. That's what I'm running right now - I can't really make up a ghetto 3800 by doing BCLK because Impact is X570, and I have NVMe drives.
> More VSOC - nope
> More PLL - nope
> ProcODT - played with a few common ones I've used in the past, 36.9/40/43/53/60 all don't work
> More IOD - nope
> More VDDP - nope
> Running my more relaxed CL15 or CL16 profiles at 3800 - nope
> Trying some looser timings and slower tRFC - nope
> More VDIMM (not sure why it'd need it) - nope
> BIOSes - only two to choose from 4006 and 4201, no change
> Haven't seen any Event 19s (Bus/Interconnect). On both my 3700X and 5900X they would start showing occasional 19s, then rampant 19s, in the few FCLK steps before they stopped booting altogether. This one doesn't seem to get any Bus/Interconnect at 3733, then just refuses to train 3800.
> 
> Is this just a normal occurrence for 5800X3Ds, did I just get a dud IOD, or is there something I'm missing?


Mine does the same thing except I'm at 1V vsoc.


----------



## -Ourasi-

tabascosauz said:


> Anyone have any tips for trying to reach 1900MHz Fabric on 5800X3D?
> 
> I have dual rank Bdie I've been running with my 5900X for a long time, which runs it well at 3800CL14 using about 1.11V SOC for 3800, no WHEAs. Can boot 4000 for show but 3800 is rock solid daily. The B-die itself is fine, about 1.42V for 3600CL14, 1.54V for 3800CL14.
> 
> I can't POST 3800 with 5800X3D - I just get a 07 code from my Impact. The 5800X3D scales similarly to my 5900X on VSOC (easily does about 1.03V at 1800MHz), so I'm not sure why only the 5800X3D seemingly hits a brick wall at 3800. I've tried:
> 
> 3733 is fine. 1.1V. That's what I'm running right now - I can't really make up a ghetto 3800 by doing BCLK because Impact is X570, and I have NVMe drives.
> More VSOC - nope
> More PLL - nope
> ProcODT - played with a few common ones I've used in the past, 36.9/40/43/53/60 all don't work
> More IOD - nope
> More VDDP - nope
> Running my more relaxed CL15 or CL16 profiles at 3800 - nope
> Trying some looser timings and slower tRFC - nope
> More VDIMM (not sure why it'd need it) - nope
> BIOSes - only two to choose from 4006 and 4201, no change
> Haven't seen any Event 19s (Bus/Interconnect). On both my 3700X and 5900X they would start showing occasional 19s, then rampant 19s, in the few FCLK steps before they stopped booting altogether. This one doesn't seem to get any Bus/Interconnect at 3733, then just refuses to train 3800.
> 
> Is this just a normal occurrence for 5800X3Ds, did I just get a dud IOD, or is there something I'm missing?


Was sure my X3D was a dud @IF clocking, but then I remembered I had the same issues with my 5800X as well with the same bunch of B-Die sticks. Said to myself f*** it and screw every B-Die quide out there, and put all timings on auto, and suddenly 1900 booted without any pausing bios wierdness or multiple bios tries, and no WHEA errors. Started tightening timings and ended up on 14-15-15-15 and 56.9ns sub 150ns TREF, all sudden reboots or instability of 3733/3600 gone, grey hair inducing as hell, since every stress test on earth was stable. Turned out tfaw and 1 or two other timings was the root cause of the issues on these DR 2x16gb sticks (IMC or MB topology woes? dunno...). Anything above 3733 at 16-16-16-16 was a no boot, now [email protected] is smooth sailing at way, way better latency... Go figure..


----------



## StevieRay2

Messing around with PBO2 and boost tester, why does using a high or no CO not let the cores hit 4550mhz? Seems I can only hit 4550mhz when using -25 or lower, temp is obviously not an issue as that program keeps me in the 50's, using -20 right now and highest my cores can do is 4474 yet with -25 they all hit 4549


----------



## Luggage

StevieRay2 said:


> Messing around with PBO2 and boost tester, why does using a high or no CO not let the cores hit 4550mhz? Seems I can only hit 4550mhz when using -25 or lower, temp is obviously not an issue as that program keeps me in the 50's, using -20 right now and highest my cores can do is 4474 yet with -25 they all hit 4549


Co is not just a lower vcore, it’s a change in vf curve. ”Lower value” means ”try to hit this (higher) F at this V”. That’s why CO doesn’t “undervolt” until you reach another f-limit. It also changes the slope compared with a fixed uv. Bigger difference at low F and lower at high F.


----------



## martelantonin

Hey everyone,

I bought this CPU and I should be receiving it by Monday October 3rd. I'm currently running a R5 3600 on a Noctua U12S cooler but as I understand it, that might not be enough to cool the very hot 5800X3D. Anyone has tried the U12s with the 5800X3D? Could undervolting be a solution without changing the cooler? 

Cheers and thanks!


----------



## dagget3450

martelantonin said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I bought this CPU and I should be receiving it by Monday October 3rd. I'm currently running a R5 3600 on a Noctua U12S cooler but as I understand it, that might not be enough to cool the very hot 5800X3D. Anyone has tried the U12s with the 5800X3D? Could undervolting be a solution without changing the cooler?
> 
> Cheers and thanks!


Congrats I hope you enjoy it. I am wishing now I had got one instead of my 5900x for gaming.


----------



## thesebastian

martelantonin said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I bought this CPU and I should be receiving it by Monday October 3rd. I'm currently running a R5 3600 on a Noctua U12S cooler but as I understand it, that might not be enough to cool the very hot 5800X3D. Anyone has tried the U12s with the 5800X3D? Could undervolting be a solution without changing the cooler?
> 
> Cheers and thanks!


I was using an NH-U12S running at max 1200 RPM (instead of 1500 RPM) before I got a waterblock.
It was fine. Probably not good enough for a full core long workload or stress test at 90W+ PPT (unless you raise it to 1500 RPM).
But for gaming should be fine.


----------



## tabascosauz

-Ourasi- said:


> Was sure my X3D was a dud @IF clocking, but then I remembered I had the same issues with my 5800X as well with the same bunch of B-Die sticks. Said to myself f*** it and screw every B-Die quide out there, and put all timings on auto, and suddenly 1900 booted without any pausing bios wierdness or multiple bios tries, and no WHEA errors. Started tightening timings and ended up on 14-15-15-15 and 56.9ns sub 150ns TREF, all sudden reboots or instability of 3733/3600 gone, grey hair inducing as hell, since every stress test on earth was stable. Turned out tfaw and 1 or two other timings was the root cause of the issues on these DR 2x16gb sticks (IMC or MB topology woes? dunno...). Anything above 3733 at 16-16-16-16 was a no boot, now [email protected] is smooth sailing at way, way better latency... Go figure..


Thanks for the tip.I have indeed not tried all auto, goes to show how ingrained the habit of putting in my profiles is. I will go try that now.

no luck, sadly. Still 07 code. If it was a little clearer as to whether SOC or the Bdie is the problem, I might be able to figure it out. All 07 says is "AP initialization after microcode loading"



martelantonin said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I bought this CPU and I should be receiving it by Monday October 3rd. I'm currently running a R5 3600 on a Noctua U12S cooler but as I understand it, that might not be enough to cool the very hot 5800X3D. Anyone has tried the U12s with the 5800X3D? Could undervolting be a solution without changing the cooler?
> 
> Cheers and thanks!


I just run a C14S, essentially slightly better than U12S performance with much better RAM airflow.

Stock is a challenge, hits 90C in Cinebench at about 120W. -30 all cores, and it's down to about 82C in Cinebench. -30 in addition to 100/65/90 limits, it's 76C now. Doesn't really get hotter than 65C doing normal things. You'll be just fine, it's not a great OC chip anyway.

With my 5900X it did cool quite a bit better during all-core (like, 55W per CCD vs 70-80W in 1 CCD), but imo fan speeds don't matter as much to the 5800X3D due to the heat density. I have iPPC-2000s on my C14S, full 2000rpm doesn't make nearly the difference it does to the 5900X.


----------



## martelantonin

thesebastian said:


> I was using an NH-U12S running at max 1200 RPM (instead of 1500 RPM) before I got a waterblock.
> It was fine. Probably not good enough for a full core long workload or stress test at 90W+ PPT (unless you raise it to 1500 RPM).
> But for gaming should be fine.





tabascosauz said:


> Thanks for the tip.I have indeed not tried all auto, goes to show how ingrained the habit of putting in my profiles is. I will go try that now.
> 
> no luck, sadly. Still 07 code. If it was a little clearer as to whether SOC or the Bdie is the problem, I might be able to figure it out. All 07 says is "AP initialization after microcode loading"
> 
> 
> 
> I just run a C14S, essentially slightly better than U12S performance with much better RAM airflow.
> 
> Stock is a challenge, hits 90C in Cinebench at about 120W. -30 all cores, and it's down to about 82C in Cinebench. -30 in addition to 100/65/90 limits, it's 76C now. Doesn't really get hotter than 65C doing normal things. You'll be just fine, it's not a great OC chip anyway.
> 
> With my 5900X it did cool quite a bit better during all-core (like, 55W per CCD vs 70-80W in 1 CCD), but imo fan speeds don't matter as much to the 5800X3D due to the heat density. I have iPPC-2000s on my C14S, full 2000rpm doesn't make nearly the difference it does to the 5900X.


Thank you very much everyone. Appreciate the replies. I only do gaming and Twitch browsing on my PC so knock on wood we should be fine!


----------



## Jabdah

*@tabascosauz*

Im using your 100/65/90 limits now, -15 to CORE 0 and 2 , rest on -25

Never had a cooler and faster CPU - New records ( for me ) in 3Dmark ( hey its a gaming CPU ) and after 2 Hours of gaming ( Horizon Zero Dawn ) the CPU never hit 70C degrees, and even my GPU was a little bit cooler ( Hot Spot below 80C ). Also my two NVME SSDs got better temps now. Looks like the HOT CPU was heating up the whole system before.

All done with a BeQuiet Rock Pro 4 Air Cooling push pull ( booth 800rpm )

Thanks


----------



## StevieRay2

Anyone using LLC? I have a -0.050 offset and want my CPU to not spike up to 1.21v, on MSI motherboard I tried LLC 6 and 7 but seems to make no difference over auto.
Seems offset doesn't work so well either? no offset, -0.050 and -0.0625 they all hit max 1.21v



Luggage said:


> Co is not just a lower vcore, it’s a change in vf curve. ”Lower value” means ”try to hit this (higher) F at this V”. That’s why CO doesn’t “undervolt” until you reach another f-limit. It also changes the slope compared with a fixed uv. Bigger difference at low F and lower at high F.


Oh that makes more sense, I guess if someone never uses PBO2 CO they will never hit the max boosts then? I can seem to only hit it when -25 and rarely at -20 and never at 0.


----------



## Luggage

StevieRay2 said:


> Anyone using LLC? I have a -0.050 offset and want my CPU to not spike up to 1.21v, on MSI motherboard I tried LLC 6 and 7 but seems to make no difference over auto.
> Seems offset doesn't work so well either? no offset, -0.050 and -0.0625 they all hit max 1.21v
> 
> 
> Oh that makes more sense, I guess if someone never uses PBO2 CO they will never hit the max boosts then? I can seem to only hit it when -25 and rarely at -20 and never at 0.


Well the other option is to cool it more.


----------



## koji

Yo guys what's the safe voltage on these things for 24/7, dialed in 1,20 vcore atm in my bios. (offsetting that with a -30 all core CO)

Drops to around 1,17 vcore in CB23 all core load at 4539mhz and idles around that 1,20. (BCLK 102mhz)

Think I'm doing some funky stuff but I seem to be getting good results with it, I should test my single core stuff more though, I'm locking my core voltage so it's not going to 1,35 vcore in single threaded loads but I do seem to be getting proper scores. It manages to hit 4641mhz (45,5 multi * 102) running corecycler with consistency and sticks there for longer periods but I think it wants just a bit more voltage to keep it there than the 1,20 vcore it's getting atm.


----------



## axaro1

koji said:


> (offsetting that with a -30 all core CO)
> ....
> (BCLK 102mhz)


Interesting,

I'll receive my 5800x3d next week and I was also planning to use PBO Optimizer paired with a minor bump in BCLK, it seems like the best way to squeeze more performance out of this chip.



thesebastian said:


> I was using an NH-U12S running at max 1200 RPM (instead of 1500 RPM) before I got a waterblock.
> It was fine. Probably not good enough for a full core long workload or stress test at 90W+ PPT (unless you raise it to 1500 RPM).
> But for gaming should be fine.


I'm also currently using a NH-U12S with my Ryzen 5 3600, hopefully it will be enough if I undervolt the 5800x3d, my main workloads are gaming related.
I could technically add a 2nd fan since Noctua provided me a 2x FAN brackets for the U12s, it might be worth it if I want to shave a few more degrees.

*I was wondering, does it also make sense to tweak PPT, TDC, EDC values?*


On a side note, this is one last ride for my B350, I bought this mobo in 2017 with a R5 1600, upgraded to a R5 3600 and now I can finally stick a 5800x3d into this board.
Not getting Zen 3 support at launch but only after 12+ months was kind of unfortunate, luckily the 300-series owners community backlash was enough to save my mobo from planned obsolescence, I can't wait to try this chip!


----------



## tombeck

Hi guys, 
Just installed my 5800x3d with a fresh install on Windows 10, updated BIOS, new AMD chipset drivers and when running R23 my cores are not boosting above 4.2ghz.
R32 with sensors
my full system is ;
3080ti 
x570 asus hero
2x16gb 3600mhz CL16
360 liquid freezer II

I've not messed too much with the BIOS, I saw someone mention CPPC enabled, preffered cores enabled, c-states to auto. Also enabled performance boost in asus BIOS.
I'm on the windows balanced power plan.

Any idea what the issue might be?


----------



## lestatdk

What is the temperature like ?


----------



## tombeck

lestatdk said:


> What is the temperature like ?


Good from what I can tell, 35-40 idle and never seen 80 under load


----------



## Nighthog

tombeck said:


> Hi guys,
> Just installed my 5800x3d with a fresh install on Windows 10, updated BIOS, new AMD chipset drivers and when running R23 my cores are not boosting above 4.2ghz.
> R32 with sensors
> my full system is ;
> 3080ti
> x570 asus hero
> 2x16gb 3600mhz CL16
> 360 liquid freezer II
> 
> I've not messed too much with the BIOS, I saw someone mention CPPC enabled, preffered cores enabled, c-states to auto. Also enabled performance boost in asus BIOS.
> I'm on the windows balanced power plan.
> 
> Any idea what the issue might be?


Seems normal, you need to use CO to increase the frequency.


----------



## tombeck

Nighthog said:


> Seems normal, you need to use CO to increase the frequency.


What's CO for the layman? Is that the undervolting software I've been seeing?


----------



## zbug

Finally saw mine boost at 4.5ghz (4541mhz to be exact). Not the 4550mhz I was hoping but not too bad. Without going into BCLK or vcore stuff etc, I doubt I can get much more out of it.
Have been running -30 all cores but I had a random BSOD yesterday, unsure if this is related so I bumped down to -20 all cores for now. I'm getting the same boost speed, same results in benchs, just a tad more temperature (up to 5°C more on full loads).


----------



## tombeck

Nighthog said:


> Seems normal, you need to use CO to increase the frequency.


Just checked and that's PBO2 Tuner, whats CO?


----------



## tombeck

Ok understand now, so I've had interesting results. I've tried variations of -10, -15, -20 and -25. Any change does increase my temps which I wasn't expecting, however I was seeing 4.45ghz when running Prime95 as temps were below 80c in all values beloe -20, above that it actually spiked to 90c at one point. Running R23, my temps are worse and it downclocks to 4.35ghz and thats with -10. Clocks are better, temps are much worse. I thought undervolting was suppose to decrease temps?
*should also add, monitoring my volts on cpu-z, it doesn't seem to make much of a difference, with it hovering around 1.215-1.240


----------



## StevieRay2

Luggage said:


> Well the other option is to cool it more.


Tempurature seems fine, under 80c with the stuff I do, just odd that llc and -offset doesn't change my idle and load core voltage. also using kombo strike 2 so -20 CO.


----------



## lestatdk

tombeck said:


> Ok understand now, so I've had interesting results. I've tried variations of -10, -15, -20 and -25. Any change does increase my temps which I wasn't expecting, however I was seeing 4.45ghz when running Prime95 as temps were below 80c in all values beloe -20, above that it actually spiked to 90c at one point. Running R23, my temps are worse and it downclocks to 4.35ghz and thats with -10. Clocks are better, temps are much worse. I thought undervolting was suppose to decrease temps?
> *should also add, monitoring my volts on cpu-z, it doesn't seem to make much of a difference, with it hovering around 1.215-1.240


My temp dropped 10C by going -30 all cores. Something is not working properly in your setup, and to me it appears to be either cooling or voltage. Stock I saw temp of 82 max in CB23 and now it's 70 or so. 360m AIO


----------



## Blameless

As has been stated a negative CO is not the same thing as a negative voltage offset. CO adjusts the frequency voltage curve, and a negative value _usually_ results in lower voltage, but not always. If other limiters are not being hit, it can just increase boost frequency, and thus current draw. Counter intuitively certain loads might even see higher voltage with a negative CO because it's able to sustain a proportionally higher boost clock and request more voltage before being kicked back down.


----------



## StevieRay2

Blameless said:


> As has been stated a negative CO is not the same thing as a negative voltage offset. CO adjusts the frequency voltage curve, and a negative value _usually_ results in lower voltage, but not always. If other limiters are not being hit, it can just increase boost frequency, and thus current draw. Counter intuitively certain loads might even see higher voltage with a negative CO because it's able to sustain a proportionally higher boost clock and request more voltage before being kicked back down.


Negative CO can result in higher voltage like you said but can a negative offset do the same? I've been trying different negative offsets but non really resulted in a different idle and load voltage over no offset, both using the same -20 CO. LLC on auto, tried LLC 5 6 7 but seemed to also make no difference in load voltage.


----------



## Gorod

StevieRay2 said:


> Anyone using LLC? I have a -0.050 offset and want my CPU to not spike up to 1.21v, on MSI motherboard I tried LLC 6 and 7 but seems to make no difference over auto.


LLC working as intended on MSI B550 Unify-X, not sure about other MSI motherboards. With LLC8 and without voltage offeset stays at 1.20v under full load CB23. Y-Cruncher needs a little bit more voltage under load, LLC needs to be bumped to slightly more aggressive values.


----------



## StevieRay2

Gorod said:


> LLC working as intended on MSI B550 Unify-X, not sure about other MSI motherboards. With LLC8 and without voltage offeset stays at 1.20v under full load CB23. Y-Cruncher needs a little bit more voltage under load, LLC needs to be bumped to slightly more aggressive values.


Oh thanks, yeah seems LLC8 is showing a difference for me, including a lot of clock stretching in R23 multi, guess ill try 7 and 6 again, if those stretch too I'll probably just go back to auto and -0.0625v offset which didn't stretch

Though llc7 I get no streching but llc7 with an offset -0.050 gives me the same voltages in r23 but boost clocks are lower a bit but only by like 20mhz. Odd. Temps are the same.


----------



## adversary

I'm seriously thinking about 5800X3D. as I'm not any advanced user, i may happen to play game and for that I belive that CPU would be best, from all what I read about it. So it would cover my needs perfectly and it would be "max out" on AM4 for me. I'm not interested for AM5 now really. As someone who managed to have Intel 5775C from 2015 to 2021 year, sure I willl be fine with 5800X3D for years.

I have also G.Skill F4-3600C14D-32GTZR RAM kit, which is 14-15-15 1.45V. I have also EKWB custom watercooling (and best waterblock for Zen3 I could buy at that time) and RAM cooling, where i managed fully stable and fully tested 51.2ns (with custom tweaking of course). So cooling would definitely not be issue for me for 5800X3D.

I know 5800X3D is way less RAM sensitive, hence probably very small gains, but still, why not to use good RAM I have.

Thinking also should i switch to MSI Unify-X boards. I'm now on Asus B550 TUF Gaming Plus. Getting it together with cpu gets me even more discount. Checking at moment but seems MSI Unify-X B550, and MSI Unify-X X570S MAX are available so I would like to hear which one is better option (I don't use ton of SSDs or HDDs), I have 2TB Samsung EVO 970 PLUS which is PCIE 3.0 and I intend to keep it as it is more than enough for my needs. But if X570S is better for any other reasons I would like to know, difference in price is very small sso I exclude price there as factor for decision, just want best one of them and most reliable.

Also from what I did read seems like MSI released BIOS which would allow some PBO overclocking on 5800X3D but I'm still trying to catch all info. I have to admit I'm bit confused on that overclocking part, is something is unlocked or relased in meantime and what.

EDIT - seems I forgot to mention, I have 5600X now.


----------



## Gorod

StevieRay2 said:


> Oh thanks, yeah seems LLC8 is showing a difference for me, including a lot of clock stretching in R23 multi, guess ill try 7 and 6 again, if those stretch too I'll probably just go back to auto and -0.0625v offset which didn't stretch
> 
> Though llc7 I get no streching but llc7 with an offset -0.050 gives me the same voltages in r23 but boost clocks are lower a bit but only by like 20mhz. Odd. Temps are the same.


stretching might be due to temperature too, make sure it stays under 80c. I am using custom watercooling, with AIO effective clocks where a bit lower. But yeah, try to play with settings some more, 4450 solid effective clocks under CB23 should not be too hard, weakest LLC and -30 is the right path


----------



## StevieRay2

StevieRay2 said:


> Oh thanks, yeah seems LLC8 is showing a difference for me, including a lot of clock stretching in R23 multi, guess ill try 7 and 6 again, if those stretch too I'll probably just go back to auto and -0.0625v offset which didn't stretch





Gorod said:


> stretching might be due to temperature too, make sure it stays under 80c. I am using custom watercooling, with AIO effective clocks where a bit lower. But yeah, try to play with settings some more, 4450 solid effective clocks under CB23 should not be too hard, weakest LLC and -30 is the right path


Yeah I should probably try kombo strike 3(-30CO) but I always stray away from the max of things, so -20 I'm sure every 5800x3D could do but I have a feeling -30 might not be stable, I can always loop the 7 or so ycruncher tests all night I guess.
End the end seems like negative offset does nothing for me. LLC7 at -20CO seems pretty good.
Maybe in the end I'll try kombo 3 again and run y-cruncher all tests for 3 or so hours, unless anyone else has a better method to test -30 CO stability for this CPU(other than just using it of course)


----------



## LesPaulLover

New 5800X3D here on B550 Unify-X. What kind of "Effective Clocks" should I see in HWINFO64 when I'm gaming?

Right now, it seems like the highest I'm getting is around 37-3800MHz even in a game like CSGO that's mostly using a single core.

It's on a custom loop w my GPU and CPU temps under CinebenchR23 all-core top out around 81c and in games top out around 55-60c


----------



## StevieRay2

LesPaulLover said:


> New 5800X3D here on B550 Unify-X. What kind of "Effective Clocks" should I see in HWINFO64 when I'm gaming?
> 
> Right now, it seems like the highest I'm getting is around 37-3800MHz even in a game like CSGO that's mostly using a single core.
> 
> It's on a custom loop w my GPU and CPU temps under CinebenchR23 all-core top out around 81c and in games top out around 55-60c


Seems normal, games hardly if ever use 100% of your cores like benchmarks/stress tests do. Playing Red Dead and my effective clocks are usually 3400-3800 when my perf says 4450.


----------



## tombeck

lestatdk said:


> My temp dropped 10C by going -30 all cores. Something is not working properly in your setup, and to me it appears to be either cooling or voltage. Stock I saw temp of 82 max in CB23 and now it's 70 or so. 360m AIO


I'd be suprised if it was cooling, just going by idle temps, good temps while gaming and how quickly it drops in temp when going from load to idle. I think it's likely voltage just because any negative value I input made very little difference to the voltage. I am able to get 4.45ghz now in gaming, which I'm pretty happy with, but CB32 it quickly goes above 80c and drops to 4.3ghz. But still much better than the cap of 4.2ghz I was seeing before. Think I just have a mediocre chip. Or something needs tweaking that I don't know about. 
I see people talking about LLC, anyone know where this might be hiding in the Asus bios? Had no luck finding it.


----------



## jootn2kx

adversary said:


> I'm seriously thinking about 5800X3D. as I'm not any advanced user, i may happen to play game and for that I belive that CPU would be best, from all what I read about it. So it would cover my needs perfectly and it would be "max out" on AM4 for me. I'm not interested for AM5 now really. As someone who managed to have Intel 5775C from 2015 to 2021 year, sure I willl be fine with 5800X3D for years.
> 
> I have also G.Skill F4-3600C14D-32GTZR RAM kit, which is 14-15-15 1.45V. I have also EKWB custom watercooling (and best waterblock for Zen3 I could buy at that time) and RAM cooling, where i managed fully stable and fully tested 51.2ns (with custom tweaking of course). So cooling would definitely not be issue for me for 5800X3D.
> 
> I know 5800X3D is way less RAM sensitive, hence probably very small gains, but still, why not to use good RAM I have.
> 
> Thinking also should i switch to MSI Unify-X boards. I'm now on Asus B550 TUF Gaming Plus. Getting it together with cpu gets me even more discount. Checking at moment but seems MSI Unify-X B550, and MSI Unify-X X570S MAX are available so I would like to hear which one is better option (I don't use ton of SSDs or HDDs), I have 2TB Samsung EVO 970 PLUS which is PCIE 3.0 and I intend to keep it as it is more than enough for my needs. But if X570S is better for any other reasons I would like to know, difference in price is very small sso I exclude price there as factor for decision, just want best one of them and most reliable.
> 
> Also from what I did read seems like MSI released BIOS which would allow some PBO overclocking on 5800X3D but I'm still trying to catch all info. I have to admit I'm bit confused on that overclocking part, is something is unlocked or relased in meantime and what.
> 
> EDIT - seems I forgot to mention, I have 5600X now.


The only thing I can say is that upgrading from a 5600X to this CPU was a big upgrade.
I had some significant cpu bottlenecks in combo with 3080 ti, these were all gone with the 5800x3D + unseen smoothness overall in all games.
With smoothness I mean microstuttering, never have resolved that with any cpu I had in the past 20 years, this one does the trick lol.


----------



## Luggage

tombeck said:


> I'd be suprised if it was cooling, just going by idle temps, good temps while gaming and how quickly it drops in temp when going from load to idle. I think it's likely voltage just because any negative value I input made very little difference to the voltage. I am able to get 4.45ghz now in gaming, which I'm pretty happy with, but CB32 it quickly goes above 80c and drops to 4.3ghz. But still much better than the cap of 4.2ghz I was seeing before. Think I just have a mediocre chip. Or something needs tweaking that I don't know about.
> I see people talking about LLC, anyone know where this might be hiding in the Asus bios? Had no luck finding it.


“ but CB32 it quickly goes above 80c and drops to 4.3ghz”

Boost is heavily dependent on temps.
The benefit of undervolting is to reduce temps.
Reducing temps leads to higher boost.

If you hit 80C you won’t see good boosting.
Get better cooling.


----------



## StevieRay2

I wonder how many 5800x3D's are actually not capable of running -30CO


----------



## tombeck

Luggage said:


> “ but CB32 it quickly goes above 80c and drops to 4.3ghz”
> 
> Boost is heavily dependent on temps.
> The benefit of undervolting is to reduce temps.
> Reducing temps leads to higher boost.
> 
> If you hit 80C you won’t see good boosting.
> Get better cooling.


It only goes above 80c when I input a - CO value. Before that it doesn’t go further than 70c but frequency gets stuck at 4.2ghz. I understand lower temps= no thermal throttling but I have a liquid freezer II 360, better cooling would require a custom loop.


----------



## adversary

jootn2kx said:


> The only thing I can say is that upgrading from a 5600X to this CPU was a big upgrade.
> I had some significant cpu bottlenecks in combo with 3080 ti, these were all gone with the 5800x3D + unseen smoothness overall in all games.
> With smoothness I mean microstuttering, never have resolved that with any cpu I had in the past 20 years, this one does the trick lol.



I have 3080.
yes sounds really worth it, and I can get it at good price.

there is no any Unify-X despite there are listed in shops in my country, to be available at moment, but they say they may be in some time. I could use 5800X3D in current motherboard as well for now.


are most of 5800X3D are capable of 1900 FLCK? 
would like to know others users expiriences on this. as I would like to tune my RAM at 3800 just like I was at 5600X. my 5600X was not good bin at all regarding overclocking, but it is able to run 1900 without problem. more than 1900, no.


----------



## zbug

Folks that are running -30 CO "stable"

Have you done any extra config/bios settings beside what's on page 1 to ensure stability?
What boost clocks you getting?
What power profile are you using?

Just trying to see what I could be missing in case.


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> Negative CO can result in higher voltage like you said but can a negative offset do the same? I've been trying different negative offsets but non really resulted in a different idle and load voltage over no offset, both using the same -20 CO. LLC on auto, tried LLC 5 6 7 but seemed to also make no difference in load voltage.


The CPU is going to demand the voltage dictated by the curves being used, the load it's under, and the various limiters in place. You will be hard pressed to see the effects of the changes you are making in terms of final voltage, especially if you aren't mysteriously losing performance somewhere from less than requested performance being delivered. Optimal settings should result in less heat from LDOs not having to work as hard and less severe transients.

However, if you aren't seeing any changes at all, in voltage, temperature, nor performance, that's a pretty good indicator the settings you are manipulating just aren't taking.



zbug said:


> Folks that are running -30 CO "stable"
> 
> Have you done any extra config/bios settings beside what's on page 1 to ensure stability?
> What boost clocks you getting?
> What power profile are you using?
> 
> Just trying to see what I could be missing in case.


LLC "3" instead of "AUTO" (which is "5") on my ASRock board. Not strictly necessary for stability, but I get clock stretching at heavy loads without it.

Just under 4550MHz with up to 3 cores loaded, 4450MHz with more cores loaded, except at very high loads where power or temp limiters kick in. R23 multi-threaded levels off at 4400MHz with the cooling I've got. LINPACK will go all the way down to 4250MHz.

Custom power profile.

A lot of samples, especially later ones, aren't fully stable at -30 all core.


----------



## StevieRay2

Blameless said:


> The CPU is going to demand the voltage dictated by the curves being used, the load it's under, and the various limiters in place. You will be hard pressed to see the effects of the changes you are making in terms of final voltage, especially if you aren't mysteriously losing performance somewhere from less than requested performance being delivered. Optimal settings should result in less heat from LDOs not having to work as hard and less severe transients.
> 
> However, if you aren't seeing any changes at all, in voltage, temperature, nor performance, that's a pretty good indicator the settings you are manipulating just aren't taking.
> 
> 
> 
> LLC "3" instead of "AUTO" (which is "5") on my ASRock board. Not strictly necessary for stability, but I get clock stretching at heavy loads without it.
> 
> Just under 4550MHz with up to 3 cores loaded, 4450MHz with more cores loaded, except at very high loads where power or temp limiters kick in. R23 multi-threaded levels off at 4400MHz with the cooling I've got. LINPACK will go all the way down to 4250MHz.
> 
> Custom power profile.
> 
> A lot of samples, especially later ones, aren't fully stable at -30 all core.


I'm testing out -30 CO right now with LLC7, passed 4 hours of y-cruncher, a few hours of gaming, no crashes or WHEA errors, would you suggest any other tests for stability or is y-cruncher running all 9 tests pretty much it? Pretty sure my 5800x3D is one of the later I think week 22 ones? I'd say that's pretty stable?
Some of the y-cruncher tests I do stretch but I guess that's due to the temps?(over 80c on a few) but the rest I don't see stretching. R23 Multi is a solid 4450mhz perf and eff.


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> I'm testing out -30 CO right now with LLC7, passed 4 hours of y-cruncher, a few hours of gaming, no crashes or WHEA errors, would you suggest any other tests for stability or is y-cruncher running all 9 tests pretty much it?


y-cruncher is a pretty good test for the cores and SoC, but I'd also throw some core cycler at it, just to be sure the small lightly threaded boost differential isn't pushing it over the edge.



StevieRay2 said:


> Some of the y-cruncher tests I do stretch but I guess that's due to the temps?(over 80c on a few) but the rest I don't see stretching.


Temperature shouldn't cause clock stretching; it should throttle the multiplier down, but the average effective clock over the duration of a test should still closely match it.


----------



## StevieRay2

Blameless said:


> y-cruncher is a pretty good test for the cores and SoC, but I'd also throw some core cycler at it, just to be sure the small lightly threaded boost differential isn't pushing it over the edge.
> 
> 
> 
> Temperature shouldn't cause clock stretching; it should throttle the multiplier down, but the average effective clock over the duration of test should still closely match it.


Oh, I suppose a few of the y-cruncher tests that do use really high heat and get me to stretch I suppose my LLC is too high(too much droop) for those 2 tests not supplying enough voltage?
As for CoreCycler what would be the best to test the -CO? FFTSize = Small, mode = SSE? runtimePerCore = 10m? for a few hours?


----------



## Frosted racquet

Stupid question: does BCLK OC affect B550 chipset in terms of GPU/NVMe instabilities?


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> Oh, I suppose a few of the y-cruncher tests that do use really high heat and get me to stretch I suppose my LLC is too high(too much droop) for those 2 tests not supplying enough voltage?


That's likely the case, but don't feel like you have to eliminate streching for the sake of y-cruncher, if the part is otherwise stable. Almost nothing else is going to lose performance.



StevieRay2 said:


> As for CoreCycler what would be the best to test the -CO? FFTSize = Small, mode = SSE? runtimePerCore = 10m? for a few hours?


Any size should reach full boost. 720k is traditionally pretty good FCLK testing, but 128k is probably near max per-core load. 6 minutes per test is fine, for as long as you have extra time to run it.

OCCT's test is also pretty good.



Frosted racquet said:


> Stupid question: does BCLK OC affect B550 chipset in terms of GPU/NVMe instabilities?


Yes.


----------



## StevieRay2

Blameless said:


> That's likely the case, but don't feel like you have to eliminate streching for the sake of y-cruncher, if the part is otherwise stable. Almost nothing else is going to lose performance.
> 
> 
> 
> Any size should reach full boost. 720k is traditionally pretty good FCLK testing, but 128k is probably near max per-core load. 6 minutes per test is fine, for as long as you have extra time to run it.
> 
> OCCT's test is also pretty good.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.


Yeah I think I'll leave the LLC as is, nothing I do during the day to day would push me to the edge like those y-cruncher tests.
So I guess 128k is in the Small one then and would be the most optimal to test?, what about SSE AVX AVX2 etc, any better than the other for -CO stability?


----------



## zbug

Blameless said:


> The CPU is going to demand the voltage dictated by the curves being used, the load it's under, and the various limiters in place. You will be hard pressed to see the effects of the changes you are making in terms of final voltage, especially if you aren't mysteriously losing performance somewhere from less than requested performance being delivered. Optimal settings should result in less heat from LDOs not having to work as hard and less severe transients.
> 
> However, if you aren't seeing any changes at all, in voltage, temperature, nor performance, that's a pretty good indicator the settings you are manipulating just aren't taking.
> 
> 
> 
> LLC "3" instead of "AUTO" (which is "5") on my ASRock board. Not strictly necessary for stability, but I get clock stretching at heavy loads without it.
> 
> Just under 4550MHz with up to 3 cores loaded, 4450MHz with more cores loaded, except at very high loads where power or temp limiters kick in. R23 multi-threaded levels off at 4400MHz with the cooling I've got. LINPACK will go all the way down to 4250MHz.
> 
> Custom power profile.
> 
> A lot of samples, especially later ones, aren't fully stable at -30 all core.


Thanks!

I'll see if I get any particular issues and might use these advises (also not sure what would be the same LLC level on asus since sometimes they are the opposite )
I wish mine would boost at 4550  that's my only disappointment atm.

I always though that later built CPU would be more stable and more inclined for OC as they improve the manufacturing?


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> what about SSE AVX AVX2 etc, any better than the other for -CO stability?


I haven't noticed any meaningful difference with Prime95, but anecdotally, SSE seemed to find issues first with OCCT.



zbug said:


> I always though that later built CPU would be more stable and more inclined for OC as they improve the manufacturing?


Manufacturing does tend to improve as a process matures, but so does binning...and from the manufacturer's perspective, the 'better' the binning the less performance margin is left on the table because chips that can do better are directed to higher profit margin parts. Basically, it's possible they were playing it safe for the earlier iterations...slapping v-cache only on top bins until they were sure the lower bins wouldn't result in too many returns.

Of course, one would need a lot more information, or statistically significant sample sizes to test, to come to any hard conclusions.


----------



## Frosted racquet

Just to clarify, that means later bins achieving "only" -20 CO could have the same performance as earlier bins at -30 CO, correct?


----------



## StevieRay2

Frosted racquet said:


> Just to clarify, that means later bins achieving "only" -20 CO could have the same performance as earlier bins at -30 CO, correct?


Mines a later bin or I think 22 weeks would be considered later, right now I'm at -30 CO and stable, I can also boost to 4550mhz.


----------



## Blameless

Frosted racquet said:


> Just to clarify, that means later bins achieving "only" -20 CO could have the same performance as earlier bins at -30 CO, correct?


Ones that that achive stronger negative COs are still typically going to reach peak boost at lower voltage/temperature, but peak performance isn't going to be hugely different by simple virtue of how low boost clocks are on these parts.


----------



## StevieRay2

Would -CO and LLC affect RAM OCing at all? My next plan is to tune some b-die and hoping it won't affect the stability of my CPU


----------



## Frosted racquet

Those who have upgraded from a 5600x to a 5800X3D how much did you pay for the upgrade?


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> Would -CO and LLC affect RAM OCing at all? My next plan is to tune some b-die and hoping it won't affect the stability of my CPU


Not unless you're borderline on stability, or doing all your core testing with stuff that doesn't fit in the L3.


----------



## tabascosauz

zbug said:


> Folks that are running -30 CO "stable"
> 
> Have you done any extra config/bios settings beside what's on page 1 to ensure stability?
> What boost clocks you getting?
> What power profile are you using?
> 
> Just trying to see what I could be missing in case.


Mine is a 24th week prod doing -30 all cores, so far corecycler default can run endlessly without problems and no crashes or instability at all, but I haven't run my strict corecycler regime yet because I don't have the time (5 iterations per core SSE at 1.25hr per iteration All FFT), so I can't commit to calling it "stable"

Using Balanced profile as opposed to the usual Ultimate Performance V5 I use, because that plan causes a lot of stuttering problems for whatever reason

Not messing with VDDCR_CPU LLC, no clock stretching with current settings and I didn't buy this CPU to benchmark all day. No need to mess with SOC LLC either; I guess having less CCDs to support on the Fabric makes it less droopy

Even so the boost algorithm on 5800X3D just seems much less aggressive and different than other Zen 3. On normal Zen 3, global limit will go like glue either to Fmax or that core's silicon clock limit and progressively decrease with more load. on this CPU it seems to hit a typical limit at 4450 99% of the time then only show higher Fmax if there is heavy ST load (while 4550 is set). Each core can easily pass 4500 no problem but I've yet to see any make it past 4540, or Fmax actually reach 4550, or any core clock past 4450 in normal use

Especially in games, L3 clock is pretty much pegged at 4450. Like glue. Same behaviour as stock Zen 3 bumping up against Fmax because they can go further but PBO won't allow them. Maybe this X3D boost algorithm is governed by the Vcache, not the cores.

I strongly suspect Asus BIOS is stopping me from booting higher than 3733. This board booted up to at least 4000 with the 5900X. 1.045V SOC at 3733 completely stable, no reason why it should top out at 3800 unless there is something radically different about Fabric on X3D. I've not ever seen Zen 3 give up (ie. not boot) until at least 1.15V SOC.


----------



## ManniX-ITA

tabascosauz said:


> Using Balanced profile as opposed to the usual Ultimate Performance V5 I use, because that plan causes a lot of stuttering problems for whatever reason


Thanks for reporting it.
Did you try the Snappy profile?


----------



## tabascosauz

ManniX-ITA said:


> Thanks for reporting it.
> Did you try the Snappy profile?


Snappy seems to clock lower in CPU-Z ST, basically stuck to 4450. Not sure why. Anyway, I think I can generally describe this CPU's behaviour as just being "different"; I'll just stay on Balanced for now. I am on Windows 11, so idk if they still work as designed (Win 11 changes a lot of scheduling/boost behaviour on 5900X). I know Ultimate Performance v5 was really good on Windows 10 on my 5900X (highest ST scores on it), that's why I kept using it


----------



## Kunkey

Is anyone having issue saving the settings of CPPC and C-State on the latest Gigabyte 1.2.0.7 bios?
everytime I change it and save and restart it revert back to AUTO


----------



## ManniX-ITA

tabascosauz said:


> Snappy seems to clock lower in CPU-Z ST, basically stuck to 4450. Not sure why. Anyway, I think I can generally describe this CPU's behaviour as just being "different"; I'll just stay on Balanced for now. I am on Windows 11, so idk if they still work as designed (Win 11 changes a lot of scheduling/boost behaviour on 5900X). I know Ultimate Performance v5 was really good on Windows 10 on my 5900X (highest ST scores on it), that's why I kept using it


Balanced and Snappy have been reported working fine with the 3D.
Must be something off with the board/bios/settings.
I've tested the power plans with the 5950X on Win11 and are working fine for me but since Win11 is indeed very different sometimes there are issues with specific configurations.

I'd try to work on the settings with your setup till Snappy works fine.
Standard Balanced may work but it's probably hiding what's wrong.


----------



## DocPants

Can you use CO on 58003DX?


----------



## Teussi

ManniX-ITA said:


> Balanced and Snappy have been reported working fine with the 3D.
> Must be something off with the board/bios/settings.
> I've tested the power plans with the 5950X on Win11 and are working fine for me but since Win11 is indeed very different sometimes there are issues with specific configurations.
> 
> I'd try to work on the settings with your setup till Snappy works fine.
> Standard Balanced may work but it's probably hiding what's wrong.


Sorry for hijacking your conversations, but reading what you wrote with tabasco, i checked my windows power plans and they were "high performance" Should i also download the snappy/ balanced power options compared to windows original high performance/ balanced. 

Thanks.


----------



## tabascosauz

ManniX-ITA said:


> Balanced and Snappy have been reported working fine with the 3D.
> Must be something off with the board/bios/settings.
> I've tested the power plans with the 5950X on Win11 and are working fine for me but since Win11 is indeed very different sometimes there are issues with specific configurations.
> 
> I'd try to work on the settings with your setup till Snappy works fine.
> Standard Balanced may work but it's probably hiding what's wrong.


Now that I have Snappy, I'll run it for a few days and see if anything is different from Balanced.

Performance on 4006 BIOS seems acceptable in all respects so far but I don't have 100% confidence in Asus to deliver a great BIOS for X3D, if the BIOS 4201 massive loss of performance and the 3800 07 code is any indicator


----------



## ManniX-ITA

Teussi said:


> Sorry for hijacking your conversations, but reading what you wrote with tabasco, i checked my windows power plans and they were "high performance" Should i also download the snappy/ balanced power options compared to windows original high performance/ balanced.


It'd be worth to check them out.
Seems Snappy is considered the best so far for the 3D.



tabascosauz said:


> Now that I have Snappy, I'll run it for a few days and see if anything is different from Balanced.


Let me know how it goes.


----------



## Nighthog

Kunkey said:


> Is anyone having issue saving the settings of CPPC and C-State on the latest Gigabyte 1.2.0.7 bios?
> everytime I change it and save and restart it revert back to AUTO


You most likely have to set it manually every time you go into BIOS to alter settings or otherwise it AUTO sets it to AUTO. Seems like a missed bug. Stuff happens.


----------



## Blameless

tabascosauz said:


> Even so the boost algorithm on 5800X3D just seems much less aggressive and different than other Zen 3. On normal Zen 3, global limit will go like glue either to Fmax or that core's silicon clock limit and progressively decrease with more load. on this CPU it seems to hit a typical limit at 4450 99% of the time then only show higher Fmax if there is heavy ST load (while 4550 is set). Each core can easily pass 4500 no problem but I've yet to see any make it past 4540, or Fmax actually reach 4550, or any core clock past 4450 in normal use


Any load that touches more than three cores brings you down to 44.5x max multiplier and it's extremely rare for there to not be at least that many cores loaded to some degree in games. Still, if the system isn't running anything else and you aren't disabling serialized timers, lightly threaded apps should still use that 45.5x multiplier relatively frequently.

Again though, it is very easy to knock out the max boost...most cores need to be in C6 for it to work. Even having a web browser open is usually enough to keep too many cores from sleeping.



tabascosauz said:


> Especially in games, L3 clock is pretty much pegged at 4450. Like glue. Same behaviour as stock Zen 3 bumping up against Fmax because they can go further but PBO won't allow them. Maybe this X3D boost algorithm is governed by the Vcache, not the cores.


L3 clock should track closely with the highest clocked core.



DocPants said:


> Can you use CO on 58003DX?


Yes, though it's not officially supported so only a few boards expose the setting. Others are editing NVRAM profiles or just running PBO2 Tuner in Windows.


----------



## StevieRay2

So my week 22 with -30 CO and LLC7 looks to be stable with 4 hours of y-cruncher all tests and 10 iterations(9-10 hours) of corecycler SSE Small 6 min per core. And a bunch of gaming. Not sure if I should run any other tests or not.
Any point running the y-cruncher in corecyler instead of the y-cruncher program itself? I only ran the y-cruncher program but not the one in corecyler.



tabascosauz said:


> Snappy seems to clock lower in CPU-Z ST, basically stuck to 4450. Not sure why. Anyway, I think I can generally describe this CPU's behaviour as just being "different"; I'll just stay on Balanced for now. I am on Windows 11, so idk if they still work as designed (Win 11 changes a lot of scheduling/boost behaviour on 5900X). I know Ultimate Performance v5 was really good on Windows 10 on my 5900X (highest ST scores on it), that's why I kept using it


Seems the only time mine boosts to 4550mhz when I want it to like during CPU-Z ST is when I disable everything(close my virus/malwarescanners etc etc) or running BoostTester for 10 minutes and they all seem to hit 4530-4550mhz.


----------



## Zipy

Does anyone that own a Strix X570, tried this? [Sammelthread] - ASUS X570 Strix Series (X570-E Gaming, X570-E Gaming Wifi II, X570-F Gaming, X570-I Gaming)

Unlocked AMD PBS
Hidden options unlocked
Unlocked PBO for 5800X3D
PBO Limits and CO should work


----------



## boogasbeowulf_6414

Hi there again! 

I've testing more of my 5800x3D and after initial disappointment in form of hitches on AC Odyssey and subpar performance in CP2077 which are easily attributed to patch 1.6 on pc my other games gained substantial gains in fps. For instance Dying Light 2 which I wasn't able to run without issues on 5120x1440 120Hz superultrawide with 3950x with dips under 60fps stutter and rtx 3090 not being underutilised now runs flawlessly with 100% GPU usage at all times. Same applies to Far Cry 6, for instance. But obviously there are some games which seem not to take advantage of copious amounts of L3. I have rather mediocre ddr4 clocked at 3200Mhz cl16. I just found a very good offer on Trident Z 64gb 4000 cl18. Do you think I'll be able to run it at 4000Mhz with 5800x3d on Aorus x570 ultra?


----------



## Luggage

boogasbeowulf_6414 said:


> Hi there again!
> 
> I've testing more of my 5800x3D and after initial disappointment in form of hitches on AC Odyssey and subpar performance in CP2077 which are easily attributed to patch 1.6 on pc my other games gained substantial gains in fps. For instance Dying Light 2 which I wasn't able to run without issues on 5120x1440 120Hz superultrawide with 3950x with dips under 60fps stutter and rtx 3090 not being underutilised now runs flawlessly with 100% GPU usage at all times. Same applies to Far Cry 6, for instance. But obviously there are some games which seem not to take advantage of copious amounts of L3. I have rather mediocre ddr4 clocked at 3200Mhz cl16. I just found a very good offer on Trident Z 64gb 4000 cl18. Do you think I'll be able to run it at 4000Mhz with 5800x3d on Aorus x570 ultra?


Probably not at 4000, definitely not 64GB.
Half of it might run 3800 with decent timings.


----------



## BCB57

adversary said:


> I have 3080.
> yes sounds really worth it, and I can get it at good price.
> 
> there is no any Unify-X despite there are listed in shops in my country, to be available at moment, but they say they may be in some time. I could use 5800X3D in current motherboard as well for now.
> 
> 
> are most of 5800X3D are capable of 1900 FLCK?
> would like to know others users expiriences on this. as I would like to tune my RAM at 3800 just like I was at 5600X. my 5600X was not good bin at all regarding overclocking, but it is able to run 1900 without problem. more than 1900, no.


I upgraded from 5600X to 5800X3D in May and have zero regrets. My fairly mainstream G.Skill Hynix kit runs 3800/1900 perfectly, and I was even able to lower some voltages from what I'd been using with the previous CPU. I've read that some others have had issues, however, so YMMV.


----------



## boogasbeowulf_6414

Kunkey said:


> Is anyone having issue saving the settings of CPPC and C-State on the latest Gigabyte 1.2.0.7 bios?
> everytime I change it and save and restart it revert back to AUTO


Hi, I have Aorus x570, I'm on 1.2.0.7 bios and when I was changing the settings you've mentioned it was also reverting to auto after saving changes. But I've discovered that it only happens when you alter them via amd cbs section under settings page in bios. When you get to these settings directly from main page under advanced CPU settings they do stick and won't go back to auto after restarting. I guess this must apply to all 1.2.0.7 Gigabyte bioses on different boards. Must be sort of a bug.


----------



## severall

Hello all  This is my first post.

I have a 5800X3D for a few days and im using MSI Kombo Strike profile 3 complete stable. (1.18V for all cores)
Today i try to use PBO Tuner and i manage to set -30 CO along with KB3 and voltage was about 1.14V with great temperature (65C max in CB R23 and score >15000). But after restarting this trick not working anymore and PBO Tuner just replacing values i set on BIOS. I think some files from PBO Tuner stay on the system not allowing to do this anymore.

Anyone try this?


----------



## boogasbeowulf_6414

Luggage said:


> Probably not at 4000, definitely not 64GB.
> Half of it might run 3800 with decent timings.


If I lowered frequency to 3800 on this kit with the same timings as 4000Mhz do you thing it would be feasible on 64gb kit? What about 3600-3700Mhz? Is it specific to this CPU or 5000 in general - I'm mean not being able to run 64gb kits at 3800-4000Mhz range?


----------



## Luggage

boogasbeowulf_6414 said:


> If I lowered frequency to 3800 on this kit with the same timings as 4000Mhz do you thing it would be feasible on 64gb kit? What about 3600-3700Mhz? Is it specific to this CPU or 5000 in general - I'm mean not being able to run 64gb kits at 3800-4000Mhz range?


Ryzen anything has trouble running any kit over 3800. 64GB just makes it even harder.


----------



## axaro1

BCB57 said:


> ...My fairly mainstream G.Skill Hynix kit runs 3800/1900 perfectly..
> 
> View attachment 2574241


Is it Hynix CJR?


----------



## jootn2kx

Seems like agesa 1.2.0.7 is making the CPU hotter too on my gigabyte b550m s2h. No difference in performance but it was drawing more power and using higher vcore with same settings/profile. I flashed back to 1.2.0.6 for now it's more stable


----------



## BCB57

(Reply to axaro1)
Maybe? Thaiphoon Burner identifies it as Hynix "[C/D]JR" and the DRAM Calculator worksheet calls it "Hynix CJR / DJR."


----------



## Jigowatt

boogasbeowulf_6414 said:


> If I lowered frequency to 3800 on this kit with the same timings as 4000Mhz do you thing it would be feasible on 64gb kit? What about 3600-3700Mhz? Is it specific to this CPU or 5000 in general - I'm mean not being able to run 64gb kits at 3800-4000Mhz range?


 For what it’s worth I’m running 48GB (2x16 and 2x8) at XMP 3600 CL16 on a B450 board. I just put my old 16GB kit in for testing and it’s working just fine. Trying to figure out why I keep having frametime spikes and very minimal micro stuttering. I also have large fps drops in certain areas of multiple games. I thought my 3700x was the culprit and getting the X3D would fix this. It’s not easily noticeable all the time but it shows up in benchmarks. I’m leaning towards AMD’s power saving features are way to aggressive maybe. For what I paid for this X3D, 6900XTXH these issues really should not exist.


----------



## tabascosauz

BCB57 said:


> (Reply to axaro1)
> Maybe? Thaiphoon Burner identifies it as Hynix "[C/D]JR" and the DRAM Calculator worksheet calls it "Hynix CJR / DJR."


If the stickers on the RAM say 042.......8820C or 8821C, you have CJR. D for DJR. Generally DJR is found in the higher freq kits (4000-5333+) as that's what sets it apart from otherwise similar CJR

G.skill kits that end in -C are also generally CJR to distinguish from B-die bins are the same freq


----------



## StevieRay2

If corecycler failed anywhere in the .txt in logs will I see a "failed" anywhere?
And StopOnError = 1 would make the whole test stop and just show the last error?


----------



## BCB57

tabascosauz said:


> If the stickers on the RAM say 042.......8820C or 8821C, you have CJR. D for DJR. Generally DJR is found in the higher freq kits (4000-5333+) as that's what sets it apart from otherwise similar CJR
> 
> G.skill kits that end in -C are also generally CJR to distinguish from B-die bins are the same freq


Mine must be CJR in that case -- thanks for the info!


----------



## Taraquin

Kunkey said:


> Is anyone having issue saving the settings of CPPC and C-State on the latest Gigabyte 1.2.0.7 bios?
> everytime I change it and save and restart it revert back to AUTO


Do you have possobility to undervolt or change PPT limits in the 1.2.0.7 bios on Gigabyte?


----------



## Taraquin

tabascosauz said:


> If the stickers on the RAM say 042.......8820C or 8821C, you have CJR. D for DJR. Generally DJR is found in the higher freq kits (4000-5333+) as that's what sets it apart from otherwise similar CJR
> 
> G.skill kits that end in -C are also generally CJR to distinguish from B-die bins are the same freq


And DJR generally seems more complient to tuning, often runs lower RP and RFC than CJR


----------



## Bamidrol

Jigowatt said:


> For what it’s worth I’m running 48GB (2x16 and 2x8) at XMP 3600 CL16 on a B450 board. I just put my old 16GB kit in for testing and it’s working just fine. Trying to figure out why I keep having frametime spikes and very minimal micro stuttering. I also have large fps drops in certain areas of multiple games. I thought my 3700x was the culprit and getting the X3D would fix this. It’s not easily noticeable all the time but it shows up in benchmarks. I’m leaning towards AMD’s power saving features are way to aggressive maybe. For what I paid for this X3D, 6900XTXH these issues really should not exist.


Well it might be the TWO DIFFERENT RAM KITS. Just stick to 2x16 and the stutters will be gone.


----------



## Kunkey

Taraquin said:


> Do you have possobility to undervolt or change PPT limits in the 1.2.0.7 bios on Gigabyte?


with 5800x3D no , with 5900x yes


----------



## Taraquin

Kunkey said:


> with 5800x3D no , with 5900x yes


No access tp PPT limit either? That is dissapointing :/


----------



## Bamidrol

Taraquin said:


> No access tp PPT limit either? That is dissapointing :/


Not in the BIOS, but you can in the PBO2 Tuner app


----------



## Nd4spdvn

Taraquin said:


> No access tp PPT limit either? That is dissapointing :/


On my Gigabyte B550 Aorus Pro V2 there is access to limits in the PBO section. I can lower if switching from PBO Auto to manual the PPT, TDC, EDC limits in both Agesa 1206b and 1207.


----------



## Taraquin

Nd4spdvn said:


> On my Gigabyte B550 Aorus Pro V2 there is access to limits in the PBO section. I can lower if switching from PBO Auto to manual the PPT, TDC, EDC limits in both Agesa 1206b and 1207.


Nice, I have GB B550 S2H, was thinking of using PJVOLs pbo2 tuner in windows combined with bios limits, hope I have the options if/when I buy 5800X3D.


----------



## jootn2kx

Taraquin said:


> Do you have possobility to undervolt or change PPT limits in the 1.2.0.7 bios on Gigabyte?


 No sadly not really. You can undervolt with the gigabyte Easy tune app it works (for more finetuning), you can change the offset there. But it's a pretty slow app and it doesn't save the setting after reboot so it's not really convenient to use


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Officially a member. Manufacturing info -> Y:22; W:36. Can’t way to play with it. Upgraded from 3800X.


----------



## Atreyidus

Is there any motherboard confirmed to have access to the PPT limit and also to have it respected?


----------



## StevieRay2

Question: When people talk about lowering their 5900x etc to 65W is that just lowering the PPT to 65?




Atreyidus said:


> Is there any motherboard confirmed to have access to the PPT limit and also to have it respected?


I guess all MSI at least has, my B550 Tomahawk had it even before the Kombo Strike BIOS update, I don't have EDC or TDC though


----------



## Luggage

StevieRay2 said:


> Question: When people talk about lowering their 5900x etc to 65W is that just lowering the PPT to 65?
> 
> 
> 
> I guess all MSI at least has, my B550 Tomahawk had it even before the Kombo Strike BIOS update, I don't have EDC or TDC though


Well they can mean PPT 65W.

Or they can mean AMD 65W TDP - as in eco mode or r5 5600X stock limits:
PPT: 88W
TDC: 60A
EDC: 90A


----------



## StevieRay2

Would -CO ever degrade a CPU that it would be unstable after years? right now running -30 CO and LLC7 which droops quite a bit under load, idle is around .9-1.1v which is stable from different stress tests, over time would this be less stable? Been hearing people say -30CO or Kombo Strike can actually add more voltage to cores but I haven't really noticed that at all unless there's something I'm not seeing, hwinfo shows core voltage as .9v to 1.18v after stress tests and gaming which is pretty low.


----------



## tabascosauz

StevieRay2 said:


> Would -CO ever degrade a CPU that it would be unstable after years?


I don't think so? On any Zen 3 CPU or APU I've only ever seen a slight decrease being applied for a negative CO offset. Unless BIOS is bugged to hell and back



Luggage said:


> Well they can mean PPT 65W.
> 
> Or they can mean AMD 65W TDP - as in eco mode or r5 5600X stock limits:
> PPT: 88W
> TDC: 60A
> EDC: 90A


5600X and a lot of other 65W Zen 3 CPUs (5600, 5700X, possibly 5600G) have 76W PPT. A few other 65W Zen 3 parts still have 88W (5700G).


----------



## Luggage

tabascosauz said:


> I don't think so? On any Zen 3 CPU or APU I've only ever seen a slight decrease being applied for a negative CO offset. Unless BIOS is bugged to hell and back
> 
> 
> 
> 5600X and a lot of other 65W Zen 3 CPUs (5600, 5700X, possibly 5600G) have 76W PPT. A few other 65W Zen 3 parts still have 88W (5700G).


Oh, well I have to google it every time so… it’s easier with the 105W parts


----------



## koji

Spent some time further tweaking this thing. Landed on proper synthetic test scores but I'm seeing a regression in actual game performance. I should do some extra benchmarks but it looks like it performs best at stock in games. Go figure. Anyone here run in to similar findings? I mean, fps number is supposed to go up with all those mhz going up, it's hurting my monkey brain. 

Maybe it's the BCLK OC causing weirdness for my 6900XT I dunno...

-30 all core CO, 103,3 BCLK, steady at 4597mhz in cinebench multi and other multicore loads in games etc. (edit: want to add that my PCIE bus is running at 4.0 x16, as boot318 suggested checking below)











Edit 2: Reset the bios, dialed in all my settings over a couple reboots, dropped BCLK to 103 and locked my pcie port to pcie 4, purring like a kitten now.


----------



## boot318

^ What is your PCIE set at?


----------



## koji

boot318 said:


> ^ What is your PCIE set at?


Still on auto -> pcie 4


----------



## boot318

Did you check via GPU-Z or benchmark it to make sure it still is PCIE4? Auto does weird **** and drops it down sometimes. I'm just more curious than being helpful. I thought BCLK overclocking was still broken on PCIE4. I guess it got fixed long ago. lul


----------



## koji

boot318 said:


> Did you check via GPU-Z or benchmark it to make sure it still is PCIE4? Auto does weird **** and drops it down sometimes. I'm just more curious than being helpful. I thought BCLK overclocking was still broken on PCIE4. I guess it got fixed long ago. lul


I'll have a look when I get home, good tip thanks! I lost like 600 graphics score in timespy since I started messing with the BCLK. (and noticed some hitching in league of legends)

Just checked and gpuz reports it running at pcie 4 x16 (during the load test)


----------



## Slaughtahouse

I got the 5800X3D installed and started to mess around with the windows tool, PBO2 Tuner and CB20. This has not be validated in CoreCylcler or any other stability testing method. CPU Manufactured... -> Y:22, W:36. BIOS - Gigabyte F16d (AMD AGESA V2 1.2.0.6 B)

I've categorized my results with steps of -5 in the tool.

System specs below in sig (CPU is out of date).




Spoiler: Testing Conditions / Info



Ambient temp approx. 20C.
[*]D5 Vario set to ~2/5 speed.
[*]Edit* Fan curve set to 60% at 70C, 65% 80C (1400-1500 RPM for Noctua NF-A12x25s)
[*]LLC set to “High”
[*]RAM set to XMP. (mid range 32GB dual rank, two DIMM 3600 CL17 kit)



*Stock - Baseline*
Max All Core Clocks -> 4.3 GHz
Max CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) -> 1.237V
Max CPU Package Power (SVI2 TFN) -> 119.2W
Max CPU Die (Average) -> 74.0C
CB 20 Score - 5571



Spoiler: Photo
















-5
Max All Core Clocks -> 4.34 GHz
Max CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) -> 1.237V
Max CPU Package Power (SVI2 TFN) -> 121.0W
Max CPU Die (Average) -> 74.4C
CB 20 Score - 5680



Spoiler: Photo -5
















-10
Max All Core Clocks -> 4.39 GHz
Max CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) -> 1.244V
Max CPU Package Power (SVI2 TFN) -> 124.2W
Max CPU Die (Average) -> 75.6C
CB 20 Score - 5756



Spoiler: Photo -10
















-15
Max All Core Clocks -> 4.45 GHz
Max CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) -> 1.250V
Max CPU Package Power (SVI2 TFN) -> 127.9W
Max CPU Die (Average) -> 77.5C
CB 20 Score - 5813



Spoiler: Photo -15
















-20
Max All Core Clocks -> 4.45 GHz
Max CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) -> 1.225V
Max CPU Package Power (SVI2 TFN) -> 121.3W
Max CPU Die (Average) -> 74.1C
CB 20 Score - 5823



Spoiler: Photo -20
















-25
Max All Core Clocks -> 4.45 GHz
Max CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) -> 1.194V
Max CPU Package Power (SVI2 TFN) -> 114.18W
Max CPU Die (Average) -> 71.0C
CB 20 Score - 5858



Spoiler: Photo -25
















-30
Max All Core Clocks -> 4.45 GHz
Max CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) -> 1.169V
Max CPU Package Power (SVI2 TFN) -> 108.78W
Max CPU Die (Average) -> 69.3C
CB 20 Score - 5765



Spoiler: Photo -30

















Conclusion = -25 seems to be the sweet spot for safe voltages. I'll try to validate -30 is stable but my past Zen 2 CPU (3800X) was most optimal OC'd (Perf/watt) at 1.2v.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Blameless said:


> *Any load that touches more than three cores brings you down to 44.5x max multiplier* and it's extremely rare for there to not be at least that many cores loaded to some degree in games. Still, if the system isn't running anything else and you aren't disabling serialized timers, lightly threaded apps should still use that 45.5x multiplier relatively frequently.
> 
> Again though, it is very easy to knock out the max boost...most cores need to be in C6 for it to work. Even having a web browser open is usually enough to keep too many cores from sleeping.


Thank you for clarifying. I was about to diagnose why I was being capped at 4.45GHz when I went back a couple pages and saw this post.


----------



## StevieRay2

Slaughtahouse said:


> I got the 5800X3D installed and started to mess around with the windows tool, PBO2 Tuner and CB20. This has not be validated in CoreCylcler or any other stability testing method. CPU Manufactured... -> Y:22, W:36. BIOS - Gigabyte F16d (AMD AGESA V2 1.2.0.6 B)
> 
> I've categorized my results with steps of -5 in the tool.
> 
> System specs below in sig (CPU is out of date). Ambient temp approx. 20C. D5 Vario set to ~2/5 speed.
> 
> 
> *Stock - Baseline*
> Max All Core Clocks -> 4.3 GHz
> Max CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) -> 1.237V
> Max CPU Package Power (SVI2 TFN) -> 119.2W
> Max CPU Die (Average) -> 74.0C
> CB 20 Score - 5571
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Photo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2574423
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -5
> Max All Core Clocks -> 4.34 GHz
> Max CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) -> 1.237V
> Max CPU Package Power (SVI2 TFN) -> 121.0W
> Max CPU Die (Average) -> 74.4C
> CB 20 Score - 5680
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Photo -5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2574424
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -10
> Max All Core Clocks -> 4.39 GHz
> Max CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) -> 1.244V
> Max CPU Package Power (SVI2 TFN) -> 124.2W
> Max CPU Die (Average) -> 75.6C
> CB 20 Score - 5756
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Photo -10
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2574425
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -15
> Max All Core Clocks -> 4.45 GHz
> Max CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) -> 1.250V
> Max CPU Package Power (SVI2 TFN) -> 127.9W
> Max CPU Die (Average) -> 77.5C
> CB 20 Score - 5813
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Photo -15
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2574426
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -20
> Max All Core Clocks -> 4.45 GHz
> Max CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) -> 1.225V
> Max CPU Package Power (SVI2 TFN) -> 121.3W
> Max CPU Die (Average) -> 74.1C
> CB 20 Score - 5823
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Photo -20
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2574427
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -25
> Max All Core Clocks -> 4.45 GHz
> Max CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) -> 1.194V
> Max CPU Package Power (SVI2 TFN) -> 114.18W
> Max CPU Die (Average) -> 71.0C
> CB 20 Score - 5858
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Photo -25
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2574428
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -30
> Max All Core Clocks -> 4.45 GHz
> Max CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) -> 1.169V
> Max CPU Package Power (SVI2 TFN) -> 108.78W
> Max CPU Die (Average) -> 69.3C
> CB 20 Score - 5765
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Photo -30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2574429
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Conclusion = -25 seems to be the sweet spot for safe voltages. I'll try to validate -30 is stable but my past Zen 2 CPU (3800X) was most optimal OC'd (Perf/watt) at 1.2v.


I'm running -30 but with a high LLC7 so I droop more under load so my vcore hits 1.88v max, so far nice and stable. You should maybe try LLC at -30 to try and hit the vcore you're looking for.


----------



## BCB57

StevieRay2 said:


> I'm running -30 but with a high LLC7 so I droop more under load so my vcore hits 1.88v max, so far nice and stable. You should maybe try LLC at -30 to try and hit the vcore you're looking for.


Did you mean 1.18v?


----------



## StevieRay2

BCB57 said:


> Did you mean 1.18v?


Sorry yeah 1.18v


----------



## Slaughtahouse

StevieRay2 said:


> I'm running -30 but with a high LLC7 so I droop more under load so my vcore hits 1.88v max, so far nice and stable. You should maybe try LLC at -30 to try and hit the vcore you're looking for.


I failed to mention that “Stock - Baseline” includes XMP + LLC set to “High”.
I’ve always used “High” with my 3800X. Inline with buildzoid reco.

I’ll update my post to clarify the above.

RE: Objective, I simply want to optimize perf and lower heat whilst being stable. I use this system mainly for light work, sometimes visualizations (Revit / Unreal) and gaming.

-30 seems to be a mixed bag for some users here. I’ll try to verify it’s stable but determining -25 offered the “fastest run” and was only 1C warmer than -30 after about 45mns of testing was pretty quick. Voltage was inline with past 8 core, 7nm single CCD part. Temps went down, clocks went up etc.

I’ll have to compare in detail against my 3800X, but I had that at 1.2v / 4.3GHz all core and temps in Cinebench I believe were around the 60C mark. So to only be at 70C with the 5800X3D, chip notoriously difficult to cool is fine by me.

I haven’t done game benchmarks yet but I quickly booted up Killing Floor 2 and Anno 1800 and temps were averaging around 40 and 50C, respectively.

Also, my past chip couldn’t do IF 1900. It did originally but after USB BIOS update, I’d start to crash on Idle. I’d love to get the 5800XD at 1900… I’ll have to play with it on the weekend. Haven’t tried yet.


----------



## zbug

Thanks for your detailed testing. I did observe the same on my much lighter testing. -30 was stable but -20 did gave me slightly better result but hotter (around +5c). -25 ended up being better overall for 1/2°C higher.

Seeing how sensitive to tasks the boost clock on the 5800x3d is, I have aida64 set to run on cpu 15 instead of letting windows set it to random core, usually 0. Is that good or will it make things worse?


----------



## ilmazzo

Oh my…

this night I tried the first boot after replacing the 2600x to the 3D and … boot loop

thex470 taichi does not even display a dr debug code on thedisplay… tried to remove the battery and use the cmos clear button with no luck

I was on the latest bios for my 2600x so an old version conpared to the 4.88 beta I flashed (1.2.0.6b agesa) . I waited for the end of flash procedure amd when it said it had finished and restart I just shut it off. Dunno if I made something wrong here…

or the cpu is DOA

Unlucky.


----------



## axaro1

I need to test a little bit more but I noticed two things when using PBO2 Tuner with -25,-20,-15,-10 values:
1) The lower I go the higher the MT performance gets, up to 7% better MT with -25
2) For some reason, ST scores is slightly lower, we are talking about 1~1.5% which could easily be within margin of error but it is true for every attempt I've tried with negative values. Currently using -20, I'll try to see if I can go down to -30.


----------



## Nighthog

I wish these were unlocked... Hitting my PPT limit all the time when I stress test and as such not getting the proper boost with multicore runs.
Though have my 2066FCLK working mostly fine now.

I can note that the CO needs adjustment when you push FCLK high as I have with elevated voltages to have it run without issues.
Even stock CO settings might not be OK for all cores.
I noted stability issues @ 2066FCLK which indicated unstable cores... Adjusted the core that was failing Y-Cruncher/Prime95 fast with a positive CO and seems fine?
Other cores could not run with the CO settings I had used @ 1900FCLK either now.

So FCLK have a slight effect on possible CO values you can run. But LLC does also, could just compensate with it.
Need to recheck my CO @ 2066FCLK to see where they are happy in more detail next to compare with my old settings I found @ 1900FCLK.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

ilmazzo said:


> Oh my…
> 
> this night I tried the first boot after replacing the 2600x to the 3D and … boot loop
> 
> thex470 taichi does not even display a dr debug code on thedisplay… tried to remove the battery and use the cmos clear button with no luck
> 
> I was on the latest bios for my 2600x so an old version conpared to the 4.88 beta I flashed (1.2.0.6b agesa) . I waited for the end of flash procedure amd when it said it had finished and restart I just shut it off. Dunno if I made something wrong here…
> 
> or the cpu is DOA
> 
> Unlucky.


Do you have access to a newer BIOS that you can flash? Don’t give up!

I feared the same but when I popped in mine, it was slow to boot up but eventually it came online on the first press. System had requested me to reset fTPM since it was a new CPU but a prompt came up for it during the boot loop.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Nighthog said:


> *I wish these were unlocked.*.. Hitting my PPT limit all the time when I stress test and as such not getting the proper boost with multicore runs.


Same. With such little ease, my CPU is pushing high frequencies on all core. If I could only adjust the damn core multiplier.

I know the Core V limit is supposed to be 1.3V but there is so much opportunity to improve perf within that voltage. I bet you these CPUs could all hit ~4.7GHz all core at ~1.25v.


----------



## bonet69

Hi! One more with the 5800X3D, i had a 5800X before with 2x16GB at 4000cl14, this one sadly cant do more than 3733cl14 (very tight timings like scl 2...) whea free anyway it looks like - 30 C0 its working well so not all bad news since memory speed its not really important whit this cpu, but i guess having 1866 vs 2000 mhz if would have some impact... 

Now im trying to get a bios mod for my strix b550-xe board so i can tune pbo from bios and leave it be.... 

Do i need to limit PPT also? And last but not less important i have the arctic liquid freezer 2 without the offset mount because current one bracket cant be used with my board, the m2 slot is bloking it to be installed, should i ask arctic for the new one and use it offset mounted? 

Regards!


----------



## GamingWiidesire

Verangry said:


> For all MSI Users with B550 / X570(s) Boards.
> 
> I Modded the available and latest Bios Files (thanks @Eder for unlocking CBS + PBS Menus for those boards) and unlocked CO + PBO + Voltages for the 5800X3D (use at own risk!).
> 
> Just rename to MSI.ROM for your board and flash it with Flashback.
> 
> The options are available but not everything seems to work (Boostoverride still won't work, if you change anything, the CPU remains at 3600MHz - for me at last).
> 
> X570(s)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AGESA 1207 - Ryzen 5800X3D BIOS MODS for X570 MSI Boards - Google Drive
> 
> 
> AGESA 1207 Bios MODs for 5800X3D Users - Unlocked CBS + PBS by EDER - Voltages, Curve Optimizer, PBO, HPET and OpCache unlocked by myself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B550
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AGESA 1207 - Ryzen 5800X3D BIOS MODS for B550 MSI Boards - Google Drive
> 
> 
> AGESA 1207 Bios MODs for 5800X3D Users (B550) Unlocked CBS + PBS by @Eder Voltages, Curve Optimizer, PBO, HPET and OpCache unlocked by myself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PBO and CO works (even per core), so you wont need any 3rd party tools like SMU Debug Tool or PBO2 Tuner.


Any update on this? Any BIOS mod available to enable Boost override +200 MHz so it's possible to have the 5800X3D running at 4750 MHz All-Core?


----------



## martelantonin

Is there a way to automate the PBO Tuner 2 limits everytime I reboot the PC? I can apply the curve automatically but unsure how to do that for PPT/TDC/EDC.


----------



## thesebastian

ilmazzo said:


> Oh my…
> 
> this night I tried the first boot after replacing the 2600x to the 3D and … boot loop
> 
> thex470 taichi does not even display a dr debug code on thedisplay… tried to remove the battery and use the cmos clear button with no luck
> 
> I was on the latest bios for my 2600x so an old version conpared to the 4.88 beta I flashed (1.2.0.6b agesa) . I waited for the end of flash procedure amd when it said it had finished and restart I just shut it off. Dunno if I made something wrong here…
> 
> or the cpu is DOA
> 
> Unlucky.


I'd give it a shot with 4.90 [Beta].

In my ASRock B450 ITX the latest beta is working fine, it booted without issues. But, like you, when I installed the CPU I was running a previous version, but it was a stable version, not beta. Maybe the issue is just with 4.88 beta?

In the past (like 3 years ago) I had issues booting a 3700X with this motherboard (it was bootlooping for 3 to 10 minutes then working fine until the next cold boot). I switched to a different PSU brand/model and started booting fine. But probably was also an issue related to early Zen 2 AGESA bios.

Try to remove the battery and doing CMOS clear using the pins for a few minutes.


----------



## Demi9OD

I am running a MSI X570 Tomahawk using the latest AGESA 1.2.0.7 BIOS, 7C84v1B. My single core maximum is limited to 4450mhz if CPPC Preferred Cores is not set to Auto. Auto will allow Cores 1, 2, and 7 to occasionally touch 4550mhz. Ryzen Master lists Core 1 as my best core, and Core 7 as my second best core. The frequencies are being measured in HWinfo64 with 50ms polling. I am using Windows 10. I am primarily concerned with frame timing and input latency. Should I just set CPPC Preferred to disabled and Global C-State Control disabled for my use case?


----------



## Verangry

GamingWiidesire said:


> Any update on this? Any BIOS mod available to enable Boost override +200 MHz so it's possible to have the 5800X3D running at 4750 MHz All-Core?


With every AGESA based on 1207 there will no boost override the option is dead on the 3D.

Still hopes on a newer AGESA.


----------



## tps3443

is everyone using bclk overclocking for the 5800X3D?


----------



## jootn2kx

tps3443 said:


> is everyone using bclk overclocking for the 5800X3D?


Yes, the only way for moment the overclock cpu I can't get past 102 without booting up xp saw some other who can reach 105, depends on the motherboard I guess.


----------



## jonRock1992

tps3443 said:


> is everyone using bclk overclocking for the 5800X3D?


As mentioned above, you can only overclock the frequency of the 5800X3D through base clock overclocking. I can only reach 101.8 MHz BCLK before my SATA drives start acting up. If I remove my SATA drives, then I can get around 104 MHz. This is with an MSI X570S Carbon Max WiFi.


----------



## StevieRay2

martelantonin said:


> Is there a way to automate the PBO Tuner 2 limits everytime I reboot the PC? I can apply the curve automatically but unsure how to do that for PPT/TDC/EDC.


Same way in the task scheduler just type in the -25 -25 -25 120 95 120 0, or whatever you plan to have them at


----------



## tabascosauz

Anyone know if there are modded BIOSes for the Impact and other ROG Crosshair boards? I know there is a thread for Strix but haven't seen any for ROG


----------



## Imprezzion

Just ordered my 5800X3D. Local shop had a open box one for €429 and I spotted a used MSI B550 Tomahawk for 80 bucks and I couldn't pass up on that combo. Deal on the board isn't 100% yet but k. Hopefully it doesn't fall through.

I can probably sell my 11900KF and Maximus XIII Hero for the same 500-510 bucks as well so it's a free upgrade. 

I will be running it under a full custom loop with a EK Velocity D-RGB, D5 and a 420+240 Nemesis GTX rad combo. Plenty of cooling there. I will have to buy the AMD conversion bracket and backplate for the Velocity tho. 

Will be paired up with 2x16GB DR B-Die Trident-Z Neo's which I have tested to be capable of 3800 14-15-15-28-252-2T so I hope my 5800X3D will run 1900 FCLK. Otherwise I'll just run 1866/3733.

It'll save me quite a bit of power and heat in my room as well as my 11900KF is a terrible overclocker and draws like 170w while gaming due to high voltages.

Nice thing about scoring a MSI B550 is I can run the modded BIOS as well. Mint.


----------



## Screwz1use

A few weeks back I managed to get a 5800X3D from my local microcenter for 349.99 USD. I previously had a 5900x installed in my current rig but I couldn't pass up picking up the 5800X3D and trying it out. I mainly play World of Warcraft and have heard a lot great things with improving stutter and fps just due to the L3 cache hits most MMOs utilize but especially World of Warcraft. I typically get stutter when encounters engage due to the addons having to load up that I use. My hope is that the 5800X3D improves the stutter time. I do happen to have some captures utilizing CapFrameX of what my 5900x in combo with my EVGA 3080 12GB FTW3 had during an encounter. I'm sort of rambling here but to the important stuff.

I have read every page in this thread last week before installing the CPU this past weekend. Based on the threads, I did end up going with CPPC Enabled, CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled and Global C-State Control Enabled. The motherboard that I have paired with my 5800X3D is the same board my 5900x was paired with which is an EVGA X570 Dark. Before making changes in the BIOS, I did load optimize defaults and set memory to utilize the xmp profile. A fresh Windows 10 Pro install was conducted also. The baseline stock degrees were 45 degrees at idle and my Cinebench Multicore was at 14200.

After applying a bunch of recommendations throughout this thread including the ones stated above, applying a -25 curve with 122 82 124 for the power limits and tightening my memory, I have landed with these results for my daily.










TestMem 5 using 1usmus via 25 cycles has passed error free twice now in TM5 plus 0 WHEA errors. I've also passed a 12 Hour Platinum OCCT stability test twice now with 0 errors with the above benchmark results.

My 5800X3D now in Windows at idle runs around 25 degrees and during OCCT 12 Hours stability runs I averaged 72 degrees. I use a Lian-Li Galahad 360 AIO for cooling paired with 10 120mm case fans in a Lian Li Dynamic EVO.

The temperature being lowered and gaining over 1k score in CineBench23 Multi-Core I personally am satisfied with how my results have turned out. I'm super excited to actually try this out gaming this coming up weekend to see if the 5800X3D improves raid encounter frame performance. Within in the major city, my frames have already gone up 90 frames when uncapped.

Thanks to everyone who has posted results, recommendations and even comments. Tuning the 5800X3D was a very enjoyable process and a lot of that is credited to this thread. One last note, as you can see, results are without BCLK Overclocking, just PBO Tuner 2 and a lot of bios settings being tweaked, especially voltages.


----------



## StevieRay2

Does anyone know why running the same tests at -30 CO LLC7(more droop than 6) and LLC6 with 6 my vcore hits 1.181v and 7 hits 1.175v, figured the less droop one would hit a higher max vcore but doesn't seem the case?


----------



## Verangry

tabascosauz said:


> Anyone know if there are modded BIOSes for the Impact and other ROG Crosshair boards? I know there is a thread for Strix but haven't seen any for ROG


To be honest, its the first time I tryed modding an Asus Bios, but if you are brave enough to test it, you can try these:
Rename - (C8H.CAP or C8I.CAP) - as always and flashing via Flashback.
*But use it on your own risk!*






Asus Bios MODS TEST - Google Drive







drive.google.com





Let me know if it works. - If so, I can mod some more If needed.
(Don't have a new asus Board so can't test it myself - only an old X370 C6H... )


----------



## ilmazzo

Slaughtahouse said:


> Do you have access to a newer BIOS that you can flash? Don’t give up!
> 
> I feared the same but when I popped in mine, it was slow to boot up but eventually it came online on the first press. System had requested me to reset fTPM since it was a new CPU but a prompt came up for it during the boot loop.





thesebastian said:


> I'd give it a shot with 4.90 [Beta].
> 
> In my ASRock B450 ITX the latest beta is working fine, it booted without issues. But, like you, when I installed the CPU I was running a previous version, but it was a stable version, not beta. Maybe the issue is just with 4.88 beta?
> 
> In the past (like 3 years ago) I had issues booting a 3700X with this motherboard (it was bootlooping for 3 to 10 minutes then working fine until the next cold boot). I switched to a different PSU brand/model and started booting fine. But probably was also an issue related to early Zen 2 AGESA bios.
> 
> Try to remove the battery and doing CMOS clear using the pins for a few minutes.


I'm repling from my revived system 

I was in fear that I would have to disassembly again the mobo and test on air....but....tried another boot with 1 ram in and even though yesterday as last try of the night it did not workout, this time I saw some digits on the dr debug display

whoohoo

after 3 fake boots it started!

Already to the moon i turned it off , put the second ram in and bum! same loop boot of the first time

Even after pulling it out I had to do several clear cmos and attempts but finally it did again....lodaed default values....saved and now it was stable!

Step by step I got to a full stable default configuration with XMP running (3200 bdie) , shut it off, inserted second ram and I was ready to go ahahahha finally I would add..... 

Just enabled resizable bar and nothing else....curious to see the temps of the boy and yeah, it's quite a hot cpu....

I'll post some benches and hwinfo screen tomorrow.....feels like a lot of potential to tweak....even now I can feel the powa! lulz


----------



## tabascosauz

Verangry said:


> To be honest, its the first time I tryed modding an Asus Bios, but if you are brave enough to test it, you can try these:
> Rename - (C8H.CAP or C8I.CAP) - as always and flashing via Flashback.
> *But use it on your own risk!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asus Bios MODS TEST - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me know if it works. - If so, I can mod some more If needed.
> (Don't have a new asus Board so can't test it myself - only an old X370 C6H... )


Thanks man! 

I'm actually wondering if you could do a 4006 BIOS - 4201 BIOS is the AGESA 1207 and has horrid performance for whatever reason on 5800X3D. But I will give the 4201 mod a shot when I have time.


----------



## Verangry

If the mod's gonna work I'm sure I can mod earlier AGESA too, but only with 1207 PBO settings are available within the BIOS (can be changed via pbo2 Tuner but not in BIOS for whatever reason).

I'll keep an eye on this thread but it may take a while before I reply, timezone, sleep and so on


----------



## mike7877

I don't have it yet, but I'm an owner!

For a while I didn't think I'd be able to get one. They all disappeared locally within a day or two of Zen 4 launching. Fortunately I went on Amazon and they still had some for just a couple bucks more than the local stores. The local stores seem to have stock again, but for how long? Is AMD still making them?


----------



## tabascosauz

Verangry said:


> If the mod's gonna work I'm sure I can mod earlier AGESA too, but only with 1207 PBO settings are available within the BIOS (can be changed via pbo2 Tuner but not in BIOS for whatever reason).
> 
> I'll keep an eye on this thread but it may take a while before I reply, timezone, sleep and so on


no dice unfortunately, won't flash

file renaming, FAT32, etc. as usual, just won't flash on any of my USB drives, solid light after 5sec


----------



## Slaughtahouse

mike7877 said:


> View attachment 2574615
> 
> 
> I don't have it yet, but I'm an owner!
> 
> For a while I didn't think I'd be able to get one. They all disappeared locally within a day or two of Zen 4 launching. Fortunately I went on Amazon and they still had some for just a couple bucks more than the local stores. The local stores seem to have stock again, but for how long? Is AMD still making them?


You might want to check Canada Computers. After tax it comes to $540.


----------



## Verangry

tabascosauz said:


> no dice unfortunately, won't flash


Damn.. Ok sorry, I tried.

Gonna take look over it tomorrow.


----------



## mike7877

Slaughtahouse said:


> You might want to check Canada Computers. After tax it comes to $540.


After tax it's $563. That's where I was going to get it initially, but when I saw chain wide they had a big fat 0, I ordered one for $18 more from Amazon. Now they don't have any! (well, they do. from China. For $1100-1300...)


----------



## mike7877

I was unhappy with how Canada Computers handled my warranty replacement 3080, so I'm not doing bigger purchases with them. I was told if my card broke they'd give me a replacement that was equal value or slightly greater value if exactly equal wasn't on hand. Well, I had to pay the price difference on a nothing-too-fancy-but-not-entry level 3080 by a different manufacturer.

I don't want to be wondering if I'll be given a 5800 instead of a 5800X3D lmao!


----------



## StevieRay2

You should be doing the warranty through the manufacturer and not Canada Computers.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

mike7877 said:


> After tax it's $563. That's where I was going to get it initially, but when I saw chain wide they had a big fat 0, I ordered one for $18 more from Amazon. Now they don't have any! (well, they do. from China. For $1100-1300...)


No worries. It’s been hectic. The day Zen 4 reviews went out, 5800X3D was #1 seller on Amazon for CPUs. A couple days later, all the vendors must of received a email from AMD because they all went to $499 CAD.

I managed to order on Amazon first but then I saw CC had an extra promo (additional $20 off)so I quickly canceled and ordered on CC.










The next day - yea same results you mentioned. All sold out but the restock pretty quickly. Of course, you gotta watch out for those resellers.


----------



## mike7877

StevieRay2 said:


> You should be doing the warranty through the manufacturer and not Canada Computers.


I bought a direct replacement warranty so I wouldn't have to.

edit: It saves waiting after something breaks, and the potential of getting your item back untouched (or as good as because the problem persists)...


----------



## mike7877

Slaughtahouse said:


> No worries. It’s been hectic. The day Zen 4 reviews went out, 5800X3D was #1 seller on Amazon for CPUs. A couple days later, all the vendors must of received a email from AMD because they all went to $499 CAD.
> 
> I managed to order on Amazon first but then I saw CC had an extra promo (additional $20 off)so I quickly canceled and ordered on CC.
> 
> View attachment 2574624
> 
> 
> The next day - yea same results you mentioned. All sold out but the restock pretty quickly. Of course, you gotta watch out for those resellers.


Nice. I wasn't following prices before Oct 2 - just periodically saw it while browsing. Do you know what it was right before Zen 4 reviews?


----------



## Slaughtahouse

mike7877 said:


> Nice. I wasn't following prices before Oct 2 - just periodically saw it while browsing. Do you know what it was right before Zen 4 reviews?


550 + Tax. I’ve been following for about 2-3 months.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

You can monitor across major Canadian retailers here:

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D 3.4 GHz 8-Core Processor (100-100000651WOF) - PCPartPicker

Make an account and start adding parts you’re interested in to your “Favourite Parts” list. You can quickly filter current price and price histories.


----------



## mike7877

Slaughtahouse said:


> 550 + Tax. I’ve been following for about 2-3 months.


Techpowerup 1080 gaming tests in their 7900x review shows the 5800X3d to be 97% the speed lol. Not exactly a reason to be discounting the X3D


----------



## tabascosauz

mike7877 said:


> I was unhappy with how Canada Computers handled my warranty replacement 3080, so I'm not doing bigger purchases with them. I was told if my card broke they'd give me a replacement that was equal value or slightly greater value if exactly equal wasn't on hand. Well, I had to pay the price difference on a nothing-too-fancy-but-not-entry level 3080 by a different manufacturer.
> 
> I don't want to be wondering if I'll be given a 5800 instead of a 5800X3D lmao!


There are things I would still buy from CC but stuff that's really uncertain (RAM, boards, CPUs, GPUs) I probably wouldn't.

I used to frequent CC back when I built my Zen 2 rig (fall 2019), things were okay back then and they were a proper competitor to Memory Express. After COVID they did away with their return policy entirely (LOL) and their customer service went even further down the ****ter than they already were.

It looks like their return policy is back now, though, so I would give them another shot. Best Buy also has it for $499 if you feel iffy about CC. I got mine at ME for the $529 price - the $529 price is still up and they just received a huge amount of inventory nationwide for the 5800X3D (looks like all retailers did this week, honestly)

Still, depending on when this RMA was you're pretty lucky to have gotten a new replacement at all. My 3070 Ti had a completely smashed up cooler when I got it from ME - ME only offered a refund or normal lead time RMA through Asus. All GPUs final sale, so it wasn't an open box. Ended up waiting awhile without even being able to use my new card. When I got my card back it was literally the same card but with a new cooler.



StevieRay2 said:


> You should be doing the warranty through the manufacturer and not Canada Computers.


Maybe he bought one of those protection plans.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

mike7877 said:


> Techpowerup 1080 gaming tests in their 7900x review shows the 5800X3d to be 97% the speed lol. Not exactly a reason to be discounting the X3D


CPU sales are at an all time low. They’re probably taking advantage of the social media / youtube hype of new hardware.

So I expect sales (promotions) to ramp up as Raptor Lake comes out and we’re in the holiday season.

Zen 3 3D will soon go out of production to make way for Zen 4 3D if I recall correctly so time is running out if you want a new retail unit. Trying to wait for the last possible moment to save cash but buy it new is tough


----------



## mike7877

tabascosauz said:


> There are things I would still buy from CC but stuff that's really uncertain (RAM, boards, CPUs, GPUs) I probably wouldn't.
> 
> I used to frequent CC back when I built my Zen 2 rig (fall 2019), things were okay back then and they were a proper competitor to Memory Express. After COVID they did away with their return policy entirely (LOL) and their customer service went even further down the ****ter than they already were.
> 
> It looks like their return policy is back now, though, so I would give them another shot. Best Buy also has it for $499 if you feel iffy about CC. I got mine at ME for the $529 price - the $529 price is still up and they just received a huge amount of inventory nationwide for the 5800X3D (looks like all retailers did this week, honestly)
> 
> Still, depending on when this RMA was you're pretty lucky to have gotten a new replacement at all. My 3070 Ti had a completely smashed up cooler when I got it from ME - ME only offered a refund or normal lead time RMA through Asus. All GPUs final sale, so it wasn't an open box. Ended up waiting awhile without even being able to use my new card. When I got my card back it was literally the same card but with a new cooler.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe he bought one of those protection plans.


Yeah, they used to be good. I laughed when they got rid of their return policy too haha. For a second I thought they didn't want dirty COVID products back.

The screenshot I posted was confirmation that the item was shipped. It's on its way, and I also have Amazon's added insurance on it. For $20 and having to wait ~36 hours longer than if I picked it up from CC in the AM, I think I'll just avoid the hassle of returning it.


You're right - I was lucky to get a replacement immediately because of the shortage, but I should not have had to pay extra for it. I paid a good amount of money ($200 or 300 or somewhere in between) for the convenience of getting a 3080 back _immediately _if mine broke. 3 of those warranties is CC's cost on most 3080s, and nowhere near one in 3 cards they sell with a warranty break. They're raking money in and they _still_ felt like price gouging me. I paid it because of the situation, but not again. 

Oh, by the way, with CC, if you update a motherboard's BIOS, it's no longer warrantied. So if one breaks, brick its BIOS with volts.


----------



## StevieRay2

tabascosauz said:


> Maybe he bought one of those protection plans.


Hope not, CC stinks


----------



## mike7877

Slaughtahouse said:


> CPU sales are at an all time low. They’re probably taking advantage of the social media / youtube hype of new hardware.
> 
> So I expect sales (promotions) to ramp up as Raptor Lake comes out and we’re in the holiday season.
> 
> Zen 3 3D will soon go out of production to make way for Zen 4 3D if I recall correctly so time is running out if you want a new retail unit. Trying to wait for the last possible moment to save cash but buy it new is tough


If the 5800X3Ds are going out of production to make way for Zen 4 3D, they may be in production for a while. 5800X3D did just come out 5 months ago - 6 months after the plain 5800X. The 7700X3D (I assume) might not be out for another 6 months! Maybe AMD is planning for some time without X3D availability to hype the 7700X3D.

Personally I don't think the gains will be anywhere near as good as Zen 3 3D (edit: as Zen 4 already has fast RAM). Maybe if they put 512MB extra cache, but I doubt that'll happen. I think a lot of game designers plan around CPUs with 8 cores that are about as powerful as the ones in consoles too


----------



## mike7877

StevieRay2 said:


> Hope not, CC stinks


Yeah, I did. You probably missed it, it's in a post I made a couple above yours


----------



## mike7877

I bought my 5800X3D to be what my 3700X failed to be and what my 9600K (5.2GHz with C14 B-die @ 3900) has been trying to be (quite successfully, but not indefinitely) - an extremely capable gaming CPU that I'm happy to pair with my 3080 until it, itself, is obsolete.

I expect to continue to be very happy with performance for the next 2.5-3 years. The following 2 years I'll become progressively disenchanted, more and more, until I upgrade!

Maybe there'll be a breakthrough in SSD performance (random 4k hasn't improved very much lately, not commensurate with sequential anyway)


----------



## jfryton

Slaughtahouse said:


> No worries. It’s been hectic. The day Zen 4 reviews went out, 5800X3D was #1 seller on Amazon for CPUs. A couple days later, all the vendors must of received a email from AMD because they all went to $499 CAD.
> 
> I managed to order on Amazon first but then I saw CC had an extra promo (additional $20 off)so I quickly canceled and ordered on CC.
> 
> View attachment 2574624
> 
> 
> The next day - yea same results you mentioned. All sold out but the restock pretty quickly. Of course, you gotta watch out for those resellers.


You can also price match at Memory Express. They beat the Canada Computers price for me yesterday by a decent amount.


----------



## AXi0M

mike7877 said:


> 5800X3D did just come out 5 months ago - 6 months after the plain 5800X


1.5 years after***


----------



## Imprezzion

Btw, the IHS on these beasts, are they generally flat, concave or convex and would either lapping or using liquid metal (on the nickel plating unlapped) be a good idea or just stick with regular old PK-3 or Kryonaut?


----------



## Blameless

mike7877 said:


> Personally I don't think the gains will be anywhere near as good as Zen 3 3D (edit: as Zen 4 already has fast RAM).


Raphael didn't get much of an FCLK bump and no amount of improvement to the memory or off-die memory controller will erase the penalty for having to leave the CCD. A cache miss has nearly the same penalty on Raphael as Vermeer and I expect very similar gains going from current Raphael parts to Raphael-X as we saw with Vermeer-X.


----------



## axaro1

Currently testing Cinebench R23 with 102.00 BCLK, 103 doesn't boot but 102 seems stable.

I'm getting 14953 MT and* 1421 *ST with -30 _but I'm getting as much as *1484 *ST if I don't use any offset value in PBO Tuner. _

Should I use a different CO value for my best core?

I currently have Cool&Quiet, CPPC, C-States enabled with CPPC Preferred Core disabled.

Any tip to improve ST without sacrificing temps and MT?

*also, what kind of workload should technically force a 5800x3d to boost to 4550mhz stock? I tried CPU-Z ST and R23 ST but it's not boosting to 4550mhz with stock settings.


----------



## ilmazzo

welcome cumpa' 

interested in answers to your questions too....


----------



## Slaughtahouse

jfryton said:


> You can also price match at Memory Express. They beat the Canada Computers price for me yesterday by a decent amount.


Nice! How much?


----------



## tabascosauz

Slaughtahouse said:


> Nice! How much?


Just did mine as well, I think the quoted refund was $38. Their policy is to beat by 10% of the difference, so I guess $33 plus tax?

If you can pick up one directly from CC it's still slightly cheaper because of the additional $20 rebate they have going. Stock is running out at CC and Best Buy though


----------



## Taraquin

bonet69 said:


> Hi! One more with the 5800X3D, i had a 5800X before with 2x16GB at 4000cl14, this one sadly cant do more than 3733cl14 (very tight timings like scl 2...) whea free anyway it looks like - 30 C0 its working well so not all bad news since memory speed its not really important whit this cpu, but i guess having 1866 vs 2000 mhz if would have some impact...
> 
> Now im trying to get a bios mod for my strix b550-xe board so i can tune pbo from bios and leave it be....
> 
> Do i need to limit PPT also? And last but not less important i have the arctic liquid freezer 2 without the offset mount because current one bracket cant be used with my board, the m2 slot is bloking it to be installed, should i ask arctic for the new one and use it offset mounted?
> 
> Regards!


Generally, going above 1900fclk is rarely worth it since you need to raise VDD18 etc to avoid negative scaling in linpack, y-cruncher etc. The extra BW will benefit certain games, but if you get many WHEA19 that can sliw down the system, supressor may help that. 1866 to 1900 matters very little


----------



## Luggage

I'll keep an eye on this reddit post if something interesting is forthcoming >_>

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/xxiaew


----------



## Jabdah

looks like a fake, for me


----------



## ssuper2k

Nighthog said:


> You most likely have to set it manually every time you go into BIOS to alter settings or otherwise it AUTO sets it to AUTO. Seems like a missed bug. Stuff happens.





Taraquin said:


> Generally, going above 1900fclk is rarely worth it since you need to raise VDD18 etc to avoid negative scaling in linpack, y-cruncher etc. The extra BW will benefit certain games, but if you get many WHEA19 that can sliw down the system, supressor may help that. 1866 to 1900 matters very little


I cannot get pass 1833 with mine,
I'm using 4 sticks, but same exact results with just 2 sticks
1866 boots, but will get me hundreds of whea's
1900 won't boot at all 
1933 boots, but will get me hundreds of whea's
1966 boots, but will get me hundreds of whea's
2000boots, but will get me hundreds of whea's

so 1833 & FCLK 101.3 is the max I can get it 100% stable


































I've tried all sorts of VDDG/VDDP combinations, I always get WHEA's

Kind of gave up on testing, and content for now with these settings.

Any advice?


----------



## Taraquin

ssuper2k said:


> I cannot get pass 1833 with mine,
> I'm using 4 sticks, but same exact results with just 2 sticks
> 1866 boots, but will get me hundreds of whea's
> 1900 won't boot at all
> 1933 boots, but will get me hundreds of whea's
> 1966 boots, but will get me hundreds of whea's
> 2000boots, but will get me hundreds of whea's
> 
> so 1833 & FCLK 101.3 is the max I can get it 100% stable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've tried all sorts of VDDG/VDDP combinations, I always get WHEA's
> 
> Kind of gave up on testing, and content for now with these settings.
> 
> Any advice?


Stay at 1833 then, some are just unlucky. Fortunately 5800X3D gain little from ram overclock/tuning so you are not missing that much. If you get a few WHEA19 you may fix them by adjusting voktages, but hundreds there is no cure I know of for.

I've built 3 5600X setups:
Mine does 2066 WHEA19 free, one friends maxes at 1900 and the third only gets to 1833. Luck, comination of MB etc.


----------



## Nighthog

ssuper2k said:


> I cannot get pass 1833 with mine,
> I'm using 4 sticks, but same exact results with just 2 sticks
> 1866 boots, but will get me hundreds of whea's
> 1900 won't boot at all
> 1933 boots, but will get me hundreds of whea's
> 1966 boots, but will get me hundreds of whea's
> 2000boots, but will get me hundreds of whea's
> 
> so 1833 & FCLK 101.3 is the max I can get it 100% stable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've tried all sorts of VDDG/VDDP combinations, I always get WHEA's
> 
> Kind of gave up on testing, and content for now with these settings.
> 
> Any advice?


Yeah you are using *F36c* BIOS, it's not good on the Xtreme for 5800X3D.
You need at least F36d for less problems. *The early BIOS for 5800X3D on the Aorus Xtreme are not good.*


----------



## lestatdk

Luggage said:


> I'll keep an eye on this reddit post if something interesting is forthcoming >_>
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/xxiaew


Fake


----------



## ssuper2k

Nighthog said:


> Yeah you are using *F36c* BIOS, it's not good on the Xtreme for 5800X3D.
> You need at least F36d for less problems. *The early BIOS for 5800X3D on the Aorus Xtreme are not good.*


Ok, just updated to F36D

And I get the same WHEA errors

Also removed the other sticks, to keep just 2sticks @4k








Can you tell me your exact settings on VDDP/VDDG on your Aorus Xtreme x570?
I happen to have the same board, and I see 2 places in Bios to set them


Thanks


----------



## Nighthog

ssuper2k said:


> Ok, just updated to F36D
> 
> And I get the same WHEA errors
> 
> Also removed the other sticks, to keep just 2sticks @4k
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you tell me your exact settings on VDDP/VDDG on your Aurus Xtreme x570?
> I happen to have the same board, and I see 2 places in Bios to set them
> 
> 
> Thanks


It fixed issues up-to 1900FCLK I was having, and gave much better stability overall. Above 1900FCLK is still silicon lottery if it works or not. Though the WHEA can eventually be ignored if you iron out any performance regression issues with proper voltages etc, otherwise you check and see that there aren't other apparent issues.
It's always better to have a sample that doesn't produce WHEA but most cpu samples can't at this stage as they aren't binning the IMC/IOD etc.

You might get 1900FCLK to work this time, but you have to check.


----------



## ssuper2k

Nighthog said:


> It fixed issues up-to 1900FCLK I was having, and gave much better stability overall. Above 1900FCLK is still silicon lottery if it works or not. Though the WHEA can eventually be ignored if you iron out any performance regression issues with proper voltages etc, otherwise you check and see that there aren't other apparent issues.
> It's always better to have a sample that doesn't produce WHEA but most cpu samples can't at this stage as they aren't binning the IMC/IOD etc.
> 
> You might get 1900FCLK to work this time, but you have to check.


what are your settings here?


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Luggage said:


> I'll keep an eye on this reddit post if something interesting is forthcoming >_>
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/xxiaew


Looks fake AF. Btw, who has a $400+ processor for gaming and their video card is an Nvidia GT710.


----------



## Nighthog

ssuper2k said:


> what are your settings here?


You don't want my voltage settings. They are potentially unsafe range.
1900FCLK should work with AUTO settings.
2000FCLK really depends on your chip quality on what it manages with and you dare to run.
VDDG_IOD is usually important for memory performance, so should need around 1050-1100mv for higher frequency. Some can do less others need much more depending on the FCLK you want to run.
VDDG_CCD isn't as important but can manage quite well @ 1000mv, higher frequency might want more but then you are pushing the limits.
SoC voltage usually you don't need 1.200V most manage with less than that. Depends on chip quality and frequency you want to push. 1.200V is often more than enough for most at any settings.
Should manage ~1.150V as maximum for most tries.


----------



## Luggage

Slaughtahouse said:


> Looks fake AF. Btw, who has a $400+ processor for gaming and their video card is an Nvidia GT710.


Ppl doing LN2 on hwbot?


----------



## Nighthog

Luggage said:


> Ppl doing LN2 on hwbot?


The thing about it is the unlocked multiplier and voltage settings? Those are not supposed to be unlocked. Someone found a workaround?


----------



## Luggage

Nighthog said:


> The thing about it is the unlocked multiplier and voltage settings? Those are not supposed to be unlocked. Someone found a workaround?


Seems all his submissions are reclassified as 5800X3D(ES) ... depending on how you list or link them. Some mod on hwbot seems to be doing things at least.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Luggage said:


> Ppl doing LN2 on hwbot?


Sure - but as you followed up, if this is an engineering sample that can by pass limits, nothing changes for the rest of us.

Who knows. Not enough info in that thread.


----------



## Imprezzion

If I haven't heard from the guy I was going to buy the B550 Tomahawk from I will just buy a new board for my 5800X3D.. My EK AMD bracket for the Velocity should arrive the 14th so.. 

Any advice for which board to buy? I kinda want MSI for the modded BIOS as I don't wanna have to run software for my PBO/CO OC but which board should I get... I am thinking of just getting a B550 Tomahawk new as they are only €159 now but there's also the MSI MPG X570S CARBON MAX WIFI for 300 or 279 for the Edge version. Or, if not MSI, a ASUS B550-F maybe? Same price 159. 

I should've never sold my B550-XE that I had..


----------



## StevieRay2

All this not being able to handle 1900 is scaring me from getting some b-die lol, just want to run 3800mhz(pretty number for ram) with nice timings at 1:1


----------



## loki_toki

i dunno why but with 102 bclk my 5800x3d won't boost over 4450/4550 anyway, even with CO set to zero, any ideas?


----------



## axaro1

loki_toki said:


> i dunno why but with 102 bclk my 5800x3d won't boost over 4450/4550 anyway, even with CO set to zero, any ideas?


I'm also using 102 BCLK but that's because I don't boost to 4550 stock or just with CO set to -30/-25/20/-10.

Right now, my cores boost to 4539mhz according to HWinfo (with -30 + 101.98bclk), a few hours ago, when I was using RTSS performance metrics, I noticed my cpu boosting up to 4581 when playing Apex.
I thought that frequency reporting could have been hindered by 2000ms polling in HWinfo, so I tried 50ms with no difference in reported boosting frequency. weird.


----------



## Lost_Warrior

is it possible to under volt the 3D on linux? Its pretty much the only thing holding me back to make the jump.


----------



## ChrisLB

I saw this on HWBOT. Did someone find a way to unlock the multiplier on the 5800X3D? 
5800XD`s Cinebench - R20 score: 6723 cb with a Ryzen 7 5800X3D(ES)
AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 5498.72 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


----------



## StevieRay2

Yeah people were claiming fake or LN2 or both


----------



## ObviousCough

I don't know if i reported it here or not, but my 5800X3D dropped dead. It has already been replaced by AMD.

MSI B550 Unify-X with bios A71

Alright, so after running my pc fine for a week after a bios update i noticed i forgot to enable xmp. So i reboot to dial in my subtimings for xmp, but I forgot to increase the dram voltage, so after i S&E it failed to boot. I took one stick out to force a hardware change detection, it boot looped 3 times, then 0d. I pressed the clear cmos button, and it instantly went back to 0d. i swapped sticks of ram around, still 0d. Took out the 5800X3D, put in the 5700G and it posted instantly. Enabled xmp, ran all the stress tests. Took 5700G out, put 5800X3D back in...instantly 0d.


I know of one other person who has gotten 0d on their 3D.

I ordered mine on launch day 4/20, and it died 8/15


----------



## Jabdah

now u know another person... im using my second 5800x3d aswell...Different Mainboard MSI MAG 550 Tomahawk

Oh and btw...Same error...different message ( PC was not even turning on ). Other Mainboard , same fault, other RAM same fault, new 5800x3D works well with all boards, mem, and so on...Tested also another PSU


----------



## Luggage

ChrisLB said:


> I saw this on HWBOT. Did someone find a way to unlock the multiplier on the 5800X3D?
> 5800XD`s Cinebench - R20 score: 6723 cb with a Ryzen 7 5800X3D(ES)
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 5498.72 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


He’s not (very /s) forthcoming in the Reddit thread and the hwbot submissions have been reclassified as Engineering Sample (ES)… so unless he or hwbot mod explains we don’t know…


----------



## StevieRay2

ObviousCough said:


> I don't know if i reported it here or not, but my 5800X3D dropped dead. It has already been replaced by AMD.
> 
> MSI B550 Unify-X with bios A71
> 
> Alright, so after running my pc fine for a week after a bios update i noticed i forgot to enable xmp. So i reboot to dial in my subtimings for xmp, but I forgot to increase the dram voltage, so after i S&E it failed to boot. I took one stick out to force a hardware change detection, it boot looped 3 times, then 0d. I pressed the clear cmos button, and it instantly went back to 0d. i swapped sticks of ram around, still 0d. Took out the 5800X3D, put in the 5700G and it posted instantly. Enabled xmp, ran all the stress tests. Took 5700G out, put 5800X3D back in...instantly 0d.
> 
> 
> I know of one other person who has gotten 0d on their 3D.
> 
> I ordered mine on launch day 4/20, and it died 8/15


Maybe -CO is somehow killing 3D chips


----------



## Slaughtahouse

In most instances, -30 doesn't request additional voltage for full clock speed. It drops quite a bit actually to improve thermals with a slight hit to performance. I'd be very surprised if that was the reason.

At lower intervals of CO (-10 to -20) there is an increase of voltage in comparison from my baseline testing but... it's still within spec. If Veii's messages early on in the thread are correct (fused limit of voltage) it really shouldn't be the case. That's also a really short window for failure from voltage below 1.3v.

At least, this is just the opinion of a well informed noob. I'm not an engineer nor do I have validation of the impacts of CO on a CPU as complex as this.


----------



## StevieRay2

Yeah, it also seems strange for a CPU to die in 4 months, if it were a dud/lemon I'd figure the first few weeks or DOA. But I don't know much about electronics just my personal experiences and what I've read.


----------



## bloot

5800X3D since launch here, -30 CO ever since, no problems so far, still alive.


----------



## AXi0M

StevieRay2 said:


> Maybe -CO is somehow killing 3D chips


I see no mention of PBO Tuner/Curve offsets in his 5800X3D Obituary.


----------



## tabascosauz

@ssuper2k how high have you gone on VDDG_IOD? VSOC plenty high already for 1900 but IOD is arguably second most supportive rail for Fabric at these speeds. I was doing about 1.06V for 1.12V SOC on 5900X at 1900MHz.

No issues at 1900 but upping IOD on my 5900X also reduces the frequency of WHEA between 1900-2000 FCLK. My 3700X was also reliant on IOD more than VSOC in getting rid of WHEA at 1800.

Although, my 5800X3D is just hitting a hard wall at 1900 (memory controller continues to scale past, just Fabric refuses to go to 1900) so I know how you feel.


----------



## Nighthog

There have been dead CPU's before. It's not unheard of. Might be some manufacturing defect that didn't show straight away. 
Seen reports of dual ccd 3900 & 5900 series just dying at times for people before the X3D launch. Though it's quite rare.


----------



## Jabdah

Nighthog said:


> There have been dead CPU's before.


Yes thats true, but its my very first dead cpu since my first computer ( 1978 ).


----------



## Slaughtahouse

If you counted how many unique users in this thread who've identified that they are using CO since ownership, you'd probably find that the vast majority are still working. 

Yes, it's not conclusive but we'd need a lot of supporting evidence to determine if CO (via PBO Tuner 2 in Windows) was killing CPU's. 

We can speculate but CPUs do fail and Zen 3 chips have been more problematic on these forums than any other recent in chip in my memory. E.g. WHEA errors, USB dropout etc. Add on the fact that we're essentially beta testers for a new technology, vertically stacked L3 cache, and we're bound to see some issues or new failures. 

As long as AMD respects the warranty because effectively no one is overclocking (unless you're increasing Bus Clock) you should be OK. 

Simply put: I'd be more concerned if I saw a higher quantity of posts with users confirming they have been using CO and their CPU failed as well.


----------



## Imprezzion

@Verangry or anyone else with the knowledge how, can anyone attempt the PBO / CO BIOS mod for a ASUS B550-F board? I really wanna get that board but I also want the BIOS mods the MSI ones have so please, can anyone attempt to do do it? I wish I could but I really lack the knowledge for it..


----------



## Verangry

I can try, but my knowledge of Asus boards is very limited.

Although some options are shown as "freely adjustable", they do not appear in the bios, even though I had unlocked them.
I'll have to get back to extracting them (similar to unlocking AMD CBS, but not quite as complicated) and hope it works then. 

I made a Mod earlier but that didn't work (Crosshair Board).
You can try this one on your own risk.





MODDED - ROG-STRIX-B550-F-GAMING-ASUS-2803.zip







drive.google.com





Rename as usual and then using flashback.

*!!!But be carefull, it may lead to a bricked board!!!*


----------



## Imprezzion

Verangry said:


> I can try, but my knowledge of Asus boards is very limited.
> 
> Although some options are shown as "freely adjustable", they do not appear in the bios, even though I had unlocked them.
> I'll have to get back to extracting them (similar to unlocking AMD CBS, but not quite as complicated) and hope it works then.
> 
> I made a Mod earlier but that didn't work (Crosshair Board).
> You can try this one on your own risk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MODDED - ROG-STRIX-B550-F-GAMING-ASUS-2803.zip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rename as usual and then using flashback.
> 
> *!!!But be carefull, it may lead to a bricked board!!!*


Thanks, I'll give it a go when I get the board in!


----------



## morrys

Hi all,

I`ve tried to find the solution but only found people with the same problem, and their solution didn`t work for me, so I`ll try here if someone can help.

My 5800x3d won`t past 3.6Ghz at all, I`ve updated Bios, Chipset, changed the multiplier on bios (it shows 4500Mhz, but will go back to 3600 once restarts)
at all the stress tests and gaming the CPU never went higher than 70 degrees, is it possible I mounted the cooler badly?
Don`t really know what to do anymore

Cooler: Corsair H150i Elite Capellix
PSU: Corsair Rm850x

(EDIT)
For whatever reason, after I posted this the boost started working... (believe me, I tried for days...)


----------



## mike7877

Blameless said:


> Raphael didn't get much of an FCLK bump and no amount of improvement to the memory or off-die memory controller will erase the penalty for having to leave the CCD. A cache miss has nearly the same penalty on Raphael as Vermeer and I expect very similar gains going from current Raphael parts to Raphael-X as we saw with Vermeer-X.


I hadn't thought of it that way - makes sense.

My chip arrived yesterday! 

I don't have enough time for the full operation required until mid next week (I'll be switching chassis AMD > Intel / Intel > AMD). Looking forward to it!


----------



## BCB57

Verangry said:


> For all MSI Users with B550 / X570(s) Boards.
> 
> I Modded the available and latest Bios Files (thanks @Eder for unlocking CBS + PBS Menus for those boards) and unlocked CO + PBO + Voltages for the 5800X3D (use at own risk!).
> 
> Just rename to MSI.ROM for your board and flash it with Flashback.
> 
> The options are available but not everything seems to work (Boostoverride still won't work, if you change anything, the CPU remains at 3600MHz - for me at last).
> 
> X570(s)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AGESA 1207 - Ryzen 5800X3D BIOS MODS for X570 MSI Boards - Google Drive
> 
> 
> AGESA 1207 Bios MODs for 5800X3D Users - Unlocked CBS + PBS by EDER - Voltages, Curve Optimizer, PBO, HPET and OpCache unlocked by myself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B550
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AGESA 1207 - Ryzen 5800X3D BIOS MODS for B550 MSI Boards - Google Drive
> 
> 
> AGESA 1207 Bios MODs for 5800X3D Users (B550) Unlocked CBS + PBS by @Eder Voltages, Curve Optimizer, PBO, HPET and OpCache unlocked by myself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PBO and CO works (even per core), so you wont need any 3rd party tools like SMU Debug Tool or PBO2 Tuner.


I'm eager to hear from anyone who's tried one of these on an MSI X570. Are the results worthwhile, and did you encounter any unforeseen issues? Thanks in advance.


----------



## StevieRay2

I wonder why MSI just didn't release the normal PBO2 CO in the BIOS with the same settings instead of making a new Kombo Strike setting with only 3 options.


----------



## BCB57

StevieRay2 said:


> I wonder why MSI just didn't release the normal PBO2 CO in the BIOS with the same settings instead of making a new Kombo Strike setting with only 3 options.


Same here. I'd prefer to do per-core CO and PPT/TDC/EDC adjustments at the BIOS level rather than PBO2 Tuner (good as the app is), but I also like to ask "how's the water?" before jumping in.


----------



## Imprezzion

Just installed a 5800X3D and a Crosshair Hero in a mates system. My god these things run hot..

Full custom loop with 2 360 rads and a 3090 in the loop. The 3090 stays around 40c so that's fine and water temp is very low but still the CPU hits like 86c in Cinebench R23. It runs mid 60's in gaming. We are using a EK Velocity block with maybe the wrong jet plate? It's a Intel block converted to AMD mount with the EK conversion bracket and backplate but it does have a Intel jet plate afaik. If that even matters. 

Using Conductonaut on the CPU btw. 

Core temp delta's are great. Within 4c of eachother so I don't think the mount is bad it just gets very hot. 

Boosts nicely to 4450 all core in games tho. No tweaks, just DOCP 3600C16 1:1 for now. He is using B-Die but it's 4x8 SR. Maybe tomorrow we'll try to OC the RAM but I worry the temps are too high..


----------



## Speed Potato

Imprezzion said:


> Boosts nicely to 4450 all core in games tho. No tweaks, just DOCP 3600C16 1:1 for now. He is using B-Die but it's 4x8 SR. Maybe tomorrow we'll try to OC the RAM but I worry the temps are too high..


Ram OC is good but it does not dramatically benefit the 3D.
Did you try the PBO2 Tuner with a -30 all core curve ?


----------



## Blameless

morrys said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I`ve tried to find the solution but only found people with the same problem, and their solution didn`t work for me, so I`ll try here if someone can help.
> 
> My 5800x3d won`t past 3.6Ghz at all, I`ve updated Bios, Chipset, changed the multiplier on bios (it shows 4500Mhz, but will go back to 3600 once restarts)
> at all the stress tests and gaming the CPU never went higher than 70 degrees, is it possible I mounted the cooler badly?
> Don`t really know what to do anymore
> 
> Cooler: Corsair H150i Elite Capellix
> PSU: Corsair Rm850x
> 
> (EDIT)
> For whatever reason, after I posted this the boost started working... (believe me, I tried for days...)


Attempting to manually manipulate the multiplier probably locked it down. You cannot manually set the multiplier on these parts. Ideally, flash firmware that supports the CPU then clear CMOS setting before swapping it in.



Imprezzion said:


> Just installed a 5800X3D and a Crosshair Hero in a mates system. My god these things run hot..
> 
> Full custom loop with 2 360 rads and a 3090 in the loop. The 3090 stays around 40c so that's fine and water temp is very low but still the CPU hits like 86c in Cinebench R23. It runs mid 60's in gaming. We are using a EK Velocity block with maybe the wrong jet plate? It's a Intel block converted to AMD mount with the EK conversion bracket and backplate but it does have a Intel jet plate afaik. If that even matters.
> 
> Using Conductonaut on the CPU btw.
> 
> Core temp delta's are great. Within 4c of eachother so I don't think the mount is bad it just gets very hot.
> 
> Boosts nicely to 4450 all core in games tho. No tweaks, just DOCP 3600C16 1:1 for now. He is using B-Die but it's 4x8 SR. Maybe tomorrow we'll try to OC the RAM but I worry the temps are too high..


Even a bad mount would still result in a low temp delta across cores. Most AM4 parts are slightly concave so a jet plate that bows out the block a bit might help. I'm not really familar with the EK Velocity, but if they have an AMD specific plate, it's worth a shot.

Anyway, without delidding, the load core temp to water temp is always going to be massive and 86C in Cinebench, with no CO applied, is not unusual.

You cool these things by reducing the power output and minimizing the thermal resistance from the die to the water...adding more radiator area doesn't help much, unless it's to remove heat from other components, because the heat load is so tiny.


----------



## 720k

ObviousCough said:


> I don't know if i reported it here or not, but my 5800X3D dropped dead. It has already been replaced by AMD.
> 
> MSI B550 Unify-X with bios A71
> 
> Alright, so after running my pc fine for a week after a bios update i noticed i forgot to enable xmp. So i reboot to dial in my subtimings for xmp, but I forgot to increase the dram voltage, so after i S&E it failed to boot. I took one stick out to force a hardware change detection, it boot looped 3 times, then 0d. I pressed the clear cmos button, and it instantly went back to 0d. i swapped sticks of ram around, still 0d. Took out the 5800X3D, put in the 5700G and it posted instantly. Enabled xmp, ran all the stress tests. Took 5700G out, put 5800X3D back in...instantly 0d.
> 
> 
> I know of one other person who has gotten 0d on their 3D.
> 
> I ordered mine on launch day 4/20, and it died 8/15


anecdotal, but I've found that on my asus board, I've had it boot with 1.55v soc with a 5600g before after a failed boot while memory overclocking ,this was on the latest agesa, freaked me out , didn't seem to damage the chip thankfully (7nm soc is far more voltage tolerant). but I'd imagine that if say this bug triggered on a Matisse or vermeer chip. with the 14nm io die ,it may very well kill it instantly.


----------



## Verangry

BCB57 said:


> I'm eager to hear from anyone who's tried one of these on an MSI X570. Are the results worthwhile, and did you encounter any unforeseen issues? Thanks in advance.


As mentioned earlier, some options only work within the bios.

As an example:

Setting the multi to 50 (normally 5GHz) works as long as you are in the Bios. As soon as you load Windows, the clocks are reset to the default clock (4550MHz max boost).
Also the voltages (offset and fix), PBO -> Boost Override and Scalar almost only work in bios, it seems to me that AMD blocks them by CPU ID once you load an OS.

Everything else I have tried works.

On boards with second clock generator - for BCLK OC - it should probably work.
On the X570S Edge MAX Wifi there is unfortunately only one, so I can't confirm that.

Edith says:

To everyone who's gonna bench the performance with Cinebench or similar, forget about the results.
The 3D is almost only for gaming.

So test your Games within CPU limited settings and compare OC (RAM, BCLK OC and so on) with stock settings, you may be surprised about the results. 

CPU @ Stock only RAM OC!


Spoiler: as Sample



PC Games Hardware - German Site - Settings (identicle to how the magazine is testing CPU's)













Spoiler: Percentil gains:



SotTR









CP2077









Battlefield 5











4000 CL16 RAM Settings used within the benchmarks -> No WHEA Errors (without "suppressor")
Stable: 10k Karhu 1st run, cold boot then 2nd run to 5k karhu again, then TestMem 5 with Anta777 Extreme and Universal 2 profile passed.


Spoiler















3200 CL14 XMP Profile: Same Timings, but different Dimms used


Spoiler


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Imprezzion said:


> Just installed a 5800X3D and a Crosshair Hero in a mates system. My god these things run hot..
> 
> Full custom loop with 2 360 rads and a 3090 in the loop. The 3090 stays around 40c so that's fine and water temp is very low but still the CPU hits like 86c in Cinebench R23. It runs mid 60's in gaming. We are using a EK Velocity block with maybe the wrong jet plate? It's a Intel block converted to AMD mount with the EK conversion bracket and backplate but it does have a Intel jet plate afaik. If that even matters.
> 
> Using Conductonaut on the CPU btw.
> 
> Core temp delta's are great. Within 4c of eachother so I don't think the mount is bad it just gets very hot.


My CCD* vs Average die temp has a small delta on small loads. About 3-4C but I was a bit surprised as my previous 3800X was always equal or within 1C. Large loads it’s tight. Never checked per core.

That being said, I’m using a Raystorm block from 2013 with an AM*3 *mount* I modified with a drill to create new mounting points.

I’m also using one (1) 360mm EX XSPC rad with a D5 pump on low (2/5 vario) with 3 NF A12x25 fans @ ~1400rpm.

On stock I don’t get anywhere near 83C in *R20*. I’m not sure if R23 benches harder than R20 but it sounds quite warm for a such a short test.

My results are a few pages back in this thread: 5800X3D Owners

I’d remount or simply retention the block without removing it by bringing all the screws back up and trying again. I’m sure you know but once its about finger tight on all 4 screws, stick to half or quarter turns and go in a star pattern.


----------



## tabascosauz

Imprezzion said:


> Just installed a 5800X3D and a Crosshair Hero in a mates system. My god these things run hot..
> 
> Full custom loop with 2 360 rads and a 3090 in the loop. The 3090 stays around 40c so that's fine and water temp is very low but still the CPU hits like 86c in Cinebench R23. It runs mid 60's in gaming. We are using a EK Velocity block with maybe the wrong jet plate? It's a Intel block converted to AMD mount with the EK conversion bracket and backplate but it does have a Intel jet plate afaik. If that even matters.
> 
> Using Conductonaut on the CPU btw.
> 
> Core temp delta's are great. Within 4c of eachother so I don't think the mount is bad it just gets very hot.
> 
> Boosts nicely to 4450 all core in games tho. No tweaks, just DOCP 3600C16 1:1 for now. He is using B-Die but it's 4x8 SR. Maybe tomorrow we'll try to OC the RAM but I worry the temps are too high..


There is some appreciable difference using a more modern high end block, and worth checking your mount/block, but.........

Water can help but it doesn't overcome heat density problems. 5900X or 5950X pushing all-core spreads out the heat quite a bit so water can make a big difference there. In R23 on 5900X, my Optimus Foundation block at 220-230W can keep it comfortably around the 80C mark. But in ST, even though the top blocks (Optimus, TechN, maybe Velocity2) have designs tailored to AM4's design to help slightly, no real major temps benefits compared to an air cooler, too much heat in a tiny spot (maybe a couple degrees best case, water is still more consistent regarding spikes).

Problem seems really magnified on 5800X3D. In most even demanding games, package power should be really low (35-60W) and temps should be correspondingly low (<60C at most). But sometimes a game update/startup will run all-core loads briefly to process some sort of one-off task, and as core power approaches 100W you'll see temps start to climb faster and faster. 5800X3D sucks ass anyways at MT benchmarks so there's really no reason to push extra power for MT loads.

Without PPT limits I find my X3D falls around the 120W mark in R23 for about 100W core power. My stock 5900X is a hair over 110W core power at 142W, but that's spread over twice the area. And the X3D seems to be thermally worse than the 5800X too.

Higher Curve Optimizer offsets can significantly cut down on Vcore which will help temps by itself. Then you can also add lower power limits on top.


----------



## Imprezzion

Speed Potato said:


> Ram OC is good but it does not dramatically benefit the 3D.
> Did you try the PBO2 Tuner with a -30 all core curve ?


Nah it's full hardline tubing so this was basically just a test of the board, mount and unexpected leaks. 

That's also why remounting the block is a hell of a job as it required removing the vertical mount GPU and most of not all of the tubing again.. 

We can play with the tuner later. Maybe tomorrow after work or something.

Temps looked fine in games like Division 2 tho. Low 60's core and like 66 package on stock. It runs around 1.3v as well so can be dropped with CO quite significantly. 

I don't have mine installed yet cause I still don't have a board but I have the same Velocity block and the same mount kit. 

Thanks for reminding me RAM doesn't make a big difference btw. I thought about getting MSI B550 Unify-X just for the RAM OC but it costs more then double of what a MSI B550 Tomahawk or ASUS B550-F costs and isn't worth it at that point. I'll just run my 2x16 DR at whatever fclk 1:1 it's happy with on a 4 DIMM board.


----------



## AXi0M

Imprezzion said:


> Just installed a 5800X3D and a Crosshair Hero in a mates system. My god these things run hot..
> 
> Full custom loop with 2 360 rads and a 3090 in the loop. The 3090 stays around 40c so that's fine and water temp is very low but still the CPU hits like 86c in Cinebench R23. It runs mid 60's in gaming. We are using a EK Velocity block with maybe the wrong jet plate? It's a Intel block converted to AMD mount with the EK conversion bracket and backplate but it does have a Intel jet plate afaik. If that even matters.
> 
> Using Conductonaut on the CPU btw.
> 
> Core temp delta's are great. Within 4c of eachother so I don't think the mount is bad it just gets very hot.
> 
> Boosts nicely to 4450 all core in games tho. No tweaks, just DOCP 3600C16 1:1 for now. He is using B-Die but it's 4x8 SR. Maybe tomorrow we'll try to OC the RAM but I worry the temps are too high..


Bad Mount? mine runs 72-75c in R23 on a 280 AIO temps are the same stock and with -30 for me.


----------



## Nighthog

720k said:


> anecdotal, but I've found that on my asus board, I've had it boot with 1.55v soc with a 5600g before after a failed boot while memory overclocking ,this was on the latest agesa, freaked me out , didn't seem to damage the chip thankfully (7nm soc is far more voltage tolerant). but I'd imagine that if say this bug triggered on a Matisse or vermeer chip. with the 14nm io die ,it may very well kill it instantly.


It's not that dangerous, you can bench and run them at such voltage extensively for stress tests & stability tests for quite a while with no apparent issues. Though it's not recommended to use for general usage for normies but for the extreme OC:ers it's nothing to stress about in length and you can go back to using them normally after your done testing your stuff out.
It's not much benefit to go aboe 1.400V on the 5000G processors though. You can keep adding voltage but it doesn't usually do too much unless you just want to be able to boot high FCLK frequencies if your chip is good enough for 2500FCLK or such.


----------



## BCB57

Verangry said:


> As mentioned earlier, some options only work within the bios.
> 
> As an example:
> 
> Setting the multi to 50 (normally 5GHz) works as long as you are in the Bios. As soon as you load Windows, the clocks are reset to the default clock (4550MHz max boost).
> Also the voltages (offset and fix), PBO -> Boost Override and Scalar almost only work in bios, it seems to me that AMD blocks them by CPU ID once you load an OS.
> 
> Everything else I have tried works.
> 
> On boards with second clock generator - for BCLK OC - it should probably work.
> On the X570S Edge MAX Wifi there is unfortunately only one, so I can't confirm that.
> 
> Edith says:
> 
> To everyone who's gonna bench the performance with Cinebench or similar, forget about the results.
> The 3D is almost only for gaming.
> 
> So test your Games within CPU limited settings and compare OC (RAM, BCLK OC and so on) with stock settings, you may be surprised about the results.
> 
> CPU @ Stock only RAM OC!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: as Sample
> 
> 
> 
> PC Games Hardware - German Site - Settings (identicle to how the magazine is testing CPU's)
> View attachment 2575197
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Percentil gains:
> 
> 
> 
> SotTR
> View attachment 2575198
> 
> 
> CP2077
> View attachment 2575199
> 
> 
> Battlefield 5
> View attachment 2575200
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4000 CL16 RAM Settings used within the benchmarks -> No WHEA Errors (without "suppressor")
> Stable: 10k Karhu 1st run, cold boot then 2nd run to 5k karhu again, then TestMem 5 with Anta777 Extreme and Universal 2 profile passed.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2575202
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3200 CL14 XMP Profile: Same Timings, but different Dimms used
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2575204


Thanks, Verangry. I'll probably give your BIOS a try on the next rainy day, unless MSI releases something new first. As long as I can set per-core CO and power limits in BIOS, the mod will be useful for me. Re: the above, it's good to see that memory overclocking yields some tangible in-game benefits.


----------



## thesebastian

I have a newbie question. Is there any benefit in reducing PPT/EDC/TDC if I just use the 5800X3D for gaming? (I'm currently doing -CO only).


----------



## StevieRay2

thesebastian said:


> I have a newbie question. Is there any benefit in reducing PPT/EDC/TDC if I just use the 5800X3D for gaming? (I'm currently doing -CO only).


In my experience, if you stay under 80c while gaming, limiting those only hurt my performance a tiny bit in the game I play


----------



## 720k

Nighthog said:


> bench and run them at such voltage extensively for stress tests & stability tests for quite a while with no apparent issues. Though it's not recommended to use for general usage for normies but for the extreme OC:ers it's nothing to stress about in length and you can go back to using them normally after your done testing your stuff out.
> It's not much benefit to go aboe 1.400V on the 5000G processors though. You can keep adding voltage but it doesn't usually do too much unless you just want to be able to boot high FCLK frequencies if your chip is good enough for 2500FCLK or such.


I should mention that I did not set 1.55v, the board did it on its own after a "safeboot" so a bug, dunno if its agesa or bios specific though, are the Matisse and vermeer chips really that tolerant?, I've read people experiencing imc degradation with just 1.3v-1.4v soc. much less 1.55v


----------



## Nighthog

720k said:


> I should mention that I did not set 1.55v, the board did it on its own after a "safeboot" so a bug, dunno if its agesa or bios specific though, are the Matisse and vermeer chips really that tolerant?, I've read people experiencing imc degradation with just 1.3v-1.4v soc. much less 1.55v


It's a BIOS bug most likely for the actual vendor.
All the talk about degradation I've seen are just a few anecdotes from specific people getting repeated endlessly with not much verification done by others to see if they were correct in the first place. (I've seen no other people test these to the limit in any real kind of way for longer periods of time)
I've used more voltage than recommended with all my Ryzen CPU's and they haven't shown sign of degradation to any real effect other than they usually are a bit more tolerant like freshly baked bread tasting better but it's still good a few days later kind of experience. 
There has been notes about "freshness" but not actual degradation being reported. A fresh cpu is extra good somehow but even under normal usage they get stale after use. But still good. they stay in that stale kind of bread feel for a long time even if you go use it to a extreme. Heat is the more dangerious aspect, don't allow them to run over their recommended temperatures is a better measure of tolerance. 
You don't want burnt toast after all. Don't burn out your CPU with high voltage without the required cooling.

After all my testing I wouldn't worry at all for any of the usual voltages everyone recommends. Even a bug like the 1.550V you experienced shouldn't be a issue as you didn't keep using it for months on end on a warm system or anything. Which is more likely to show issues down the line in such a state.
I only start to look for issues going to 1.400V and above like 1.500V but haven't seen anything to note yet in any system I've tried it out on. But I haven't run them like that for weeks on end to actually look for degradation. There hasn't been any particular benefit to go above such voltages anyway as you reach limits of the chip before it requires such voltages at all to fix anything when pushing things and you go back to more relaxed settings.
I ran above 1.400V SoC on my 5700G for a long time. It's still just as it was fresh & new. A bad sample. One core is bad on it as it was new. The FCLK & IMC haven't been affected at all by me running 1.500V SoC on it for a while even when I was trying out some things for a week & more.
The cores behave somewhat similar as it was new. The only thing I worry about was when I ran it @ 110C for a little testing I did with Y-cruncher & Prime95 to see if it would crash from high temperatures with all things set proper for stability. Thing damn ran for hours on end on several days of seperate instances @ 110C+ if I kept it below the shutdown temperature, without issues. (I removed the limits)
That there when I ran it @ 110+ for a while is the only instance where I suspected degradation might have happened, only as a might. After some time I stopped worrying as I went back and rechecked my early results, they weren't any better or worse then after that. Just had used different settings in BIOS which had skewed my perception anything had happened at all. It was just the same in length, not noticeable to differentiate when I did re-asses my settings I had used.


----------



## tabascosauz

Nighthog said:


> It's a BIOS bug most likely for the actual vendor.
> All the talk about degradation I've seen are just a few anecdotes from specific people getting repeated endlessly with not much verification done by others to see if they were correct in the first place. (I've seen no other people test these to the limit in any real kind of way for longer periods of time)
> I've used more voltage than recommended with all my Ryzen CPU's and they haven't shown sign of degradation to any real effect other than they usually are a bit more tolerant like freshly baked bread tasting better but it's still good a few days later kind of experience.
> There has been notes about "freshness" but not actual degradation being reported. A fresh cpu is extra good somehow but even under normal usage they get stale after use. But still good. they stay in that stale kind of bread feel for a long time even if you go use it to a extreme. Heat is the more dangerious aspect, don't allow them to run over their recommended temperatures is a better measure of tolerance.
> You don't want burnt toast after all. Don't burn out your CPU with high voltage without the required cooling.
> 
> After all my testing I wouldn't worry at all for any of the usual voltages everyone recommends. Even a bug like the 1.550V you experienced shouldn't be a issue as you didn't keep using it for months on end on a warm system or anything. Which is more likely to show issues down the line in such a state.
> I only start to look for issues going to 1.400V and above like 1.500V but haven't seen anything to note yet in any system I've tried it out on. But I haven't run them like that for weeks on end to actually look for degradation. There hasn't been any particular benefit to go above such voltages anyway as you reach limits of the chip before it requires such voltages at all to fix anything when pushing things and you go back to more relaxed settings.
> I ran above 1.400V SoC on my 5700G for a long time. It's still just as it was fresh & new. A bad sample. One core is bad on it as it was new. The FCLK & IMC haven't been affected at all by me running 1.500V SoC on it for a while even when I was trying out some things for a week & more.
> The cores behave somewhat similar as it was new. The only thing I worry about was when I ran it @ 110C for a little testing I did with Y-cruncher & Prime95 to see if it would crash from high temperatures with all things set proper for stability. Thing damn ran for hours on end on several days of seperate instances @ 110C+ if I kept it below the shutdown temperature, without issues. (I removed the limits)
> That there when I ran it @ 110+ for a while is the only instance where I suspected degradation might have happened, only as a might. After some time I stopped worrying as I went back and rechecked my early results, they weren't any better or worse then after that. Just had used different settings in BIOS which had skewed my perception anything had happened at all. It was just the same in length, not noticeable to differentiate when I did re-asses my settings I had used.


If you don't use iGPU or do FCLK>2100, then you won't ever draw enough current through the SOC domain to make a difference. Renoir and Cezanne have ridiculously low power uncore even in P95 Large FFT and TM5, if the iGPU is dark. In those circumstances I'm pretty sure you could just run 1.5V SOC for months on end before you saw any difference; if the OCN leaderboard is any indication plenty of people run some obscenely high VSOC on Cezanne for benches.

But if you use iGPU (especially OC'd) then it's a different story. Above say 1.35V SOC while pulling 35-40 amps through SOC is not something that should be recommended to anyone. My original 2127 5700G and RMA 2205 5700G both held up okay over the long term at 1.26V SOC (droop to 1.18-1.2V) or so, but my older 2037 4650G at the same settings started slipping clearly and steadily every few weeks on iGPU clock couple months down the line. 



720k said:


> I should mention that I did not set 1.55v, the board did it on its own after a "safeboot" so a bug, dunno if its agesa or bios specific though, are the Matisse and vermeer chips really that tolerant?, I've read people experiencing imc degradation with just 1.3v-1.4v soc. much less 1.55v


To be honest, I don't attribute degradation on Ryzen to a specific or logical cause (ie. high volts at high current at high temps). If it happens, it happens. My 1924 3700X was just run at stock and never exceeded 1.2V Vcore even for the tiny bit of OC I experimented with early on, started having a lot of trouble with core-side WHEAs about a year later. Fabric also started decaying over time even though it was never run above 1.15V SOC. Don't need to mention all the other Zen 2 owners who insist 1.2V is safe for all-core - mine was run stock. 

Most of the anecdotal degradation complaints come from people with early production samples of whichever Ryzen generation. With a later production CPU that clocks strong in both domains, degradation wouldn't even cross my mind as a problem.


----------



## Blameless

Got a second 5800X3D the other day. This one is a week 32 and in initial testing it seems very similar to, maybe a bit better even, than my week 9. 1900 FCLK is stable, but past 1900 is not, just as with my earlier sample. Both will do -30 all-core CO, apparently stable. This one seems to have a slightly lower voltage and less of a voltage differential between cores.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Blameless said:


> Got a second 5800X3D the other day. This one is a week 32 and in initial testing it seems very similar to, maybe a bit better even, than my week 9. 1900 FCLK is stable, but past 1900 is not, just as with my earlier sample. Both will do -30 all-core CO, apparently stable. This one seems to have a slightly lower voltage and less of a voltage differential between cores.


Thats what I've noticed with mine as well. Week 32 (correction Week 36), managed to do IF1900 with ease.

I can do -30 all core CO too. However, I noticed a stuttering mouse issue _once_ on my system after implementing -30 CO on all cores. Inclusive as an issue so far. My mouse was also dead this morning so could of been low battery... 

Not a single crash, blue screen, or WHEA error logged yet. Previous 3800X would get WHEA's with AGESA update that "resolved" USB dropout issues.

Anecdotally - Bus Clock runs flat out at 100 Mhz with 1900IF. When I first booted up the chip, it was at 99.8Mhz. Same speed reported with 3800X. That makes recording results much cleaner...


----------



## Jabdah

Sorry to ask, but i have a WHEA 19 Question.

Im using the 5800x3d with 3600 mem and a bus clock of 101.6250

If i play i get a WHEA 19 error from time to time.. 21 errors in almost 3 hours of gaming.










Should i ignore it?


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Jabdah said:


> Sorry to ask, but i have a WHEA 19 Question.
> 
> Im using the 5800x3d with 3600 mem and a bus clock of 101.6250
> 
> If i play i get a WHEA 19 error from time to time.. 21 errors in almost 3 hours of gaming.
> 
> Should i ignore it?


As long as you're OK with accepting the risks from Bus Clock overclocking. I personally would avoid any OC on the Bus Clock. It can be fun for benching but not worth as a "daily" setting. Especially since the yield (gain in performance) is nil at 101.6.


----------



## AXi0M

Jabdah said:


> Sorry to ask, but i have a WHEA 19 Question.
> 
> Im using the 5800x3d with 3600 mem and a bus clock of 101.6250
> 
> If i play i get a WHEA 19 error from time to time.. 21 errors in almost 3 hours of gaming.
> 
> View attachment 2575399
> 
> 
> Should i ignore it?


From what i've noticed, a slow trickle of WHEA's means you need more SOC voltage and large chunks of WHEA's all at once needs more VDDG IOD/CCD.


----------



## BJT1000

Hello I've just signed up here and wondering if anyone may have come across the same issue I'm having. My machine runs 100% stable from boot up, until it wakes from sleep where it will sometimes hard reset randomly, I have a scheduled task running PBO2 upon wake. I'm running:
all core -30 114 75 115
Global c states - Enabled
CPPC Preferred Cores - Disabled
CPPC - Enabled
RAM and Infinity at 3766/1866
Stock voltages apart from RAM which is fine at 1.4v
Completely fresh wipe/install of Windows 10
No WHEA hardware errors reported at all
Have run corecycler on each core for an hour individually and every core boosts to 4550 with HWInfo on snapshot mode without a single error.
Hottest temperature for any core gets to is 65c - most around 62c under full load (AIO 360 cooler with Kryonaut Extreme thermal paste)
I don't understand what is causing the instability after wake? It can sometimes go for an hour without issue and then reset when its just idle? Never once happened after a fresh boot though.

Any ideas?


----------



## Frosted racquet

Any report in Event Viewer, .dmp file in LiveKernelReports folder? 1h testing per core isn't sufficient to call it 100% stable. CoreCycle author recommends 12h per core, for each load type (SSE, AVX, AVX2) to be near 100% stable


----------



## StevieRay2

I'd also run y-cruncher all tests for at least 5 hours


----------



## BJT1000

Frosted racquet said:


> Any report in Event Viewer, .dmp file in LiveKernelReports folder? 1h testing per core isn't sufficient to call it 100% stable. CoreCycle author recommends 12h per core, for each load type (SSE, AVX, AVX2) to be near 100% stable


There does seem to be some WHEA errors in the event viewer, just not reported in HWInfo, fairly non-descript though:

I know if I back off the RAM/infinity overclock to 3733/1833 its all fine. Just not sure what would change from going into sleep mode to make it unstable? From a fresh boot I've gamed/regular use etc 300+ hours at these settings and its rock solid which is the confusing bit?

A fatal hardware error has occurred.

Reported by component: Processor Core
Error Source: Machine Check Exception
Error Type: Cache Hierarchy Error
Processor APIC ID: 0

EventData
ErrorSource 3
ApicId 0
MCABank 22
MciStat 0xbaa000000002010b
MciAddr 0x0
MciMisc 0xd01a0ffe00000000
ErrorType 9
TransactionType 2
Participation 256
RequestType 0
MemorIO 256
MemHierarchyLvl 3
Timeout 256
OperationType 256
Channel 256
Length 936


----------



## StevieRay2

Sometimes you can be unstable at idle, probably why sleep mode makes you crash/reboot.


----------



## BCB57

FWIW this is what happens to my system when I apply any amount of BCLK overclocking... even 100.5. I've absolutely given up on that, and system is 100% stable at BCLK Auto (100). You didn't mention BCLK, so I gather that's not applicable here?


----------



## BJT1000

BCB57 said:


> FWIW this is what happens to my system when I apply any amount of BCLK overclocking... even 100.5. I've absolutely given up on that, and system is 100% stable at BCLK Auto (100). You didn't mention BCLK, so I gather that's not applicable here?


That's correct, left at 100 as I don't think its worth it. I've noticed that if I disable the wakeup schedule to run the PBO2 it's perfectly fine (it resets to default after wakeup), but only occurs after applying either manually or with a task my PPT etc settings, and then only after a wake up, fresh boot is always perfect. I guess I might have to just stop using sleep mode!


----------



## BJT1000

StevieRay2 said:


> I'd also run y-cruncher all tests for at least 5 hours


True, might run it a bit longer.. so far really impressed with this CPU though, getting about 15160 average, with best score 15330 with my settings on Cinebench which is pretty much what a standard 5800x gets.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

BJT1000 said:


> There does seem to be some WHEA errors in the event viewer, just not reported in HWInfo, fairly non-descript though:
> 
> I know if I back off the RAM/infinity overclock to 3733/1833 its all fine. Just not sure what would change from going into sleep mode to make it unstable? From a fresh boot I've gamed/regular use etc 300+ hours at these settings and its rock solid which is the confusing bit?
> 
> A fatal hardware error has occurred.
> 
> Reported by component: Processor Core
> Error Source: Machine Check Exception
> Error Type: Cache Hierarchy Error
> Processor APIC ID: 0
> 
> EventData
> ErrorSource 3
> ApicId 0
> MCABank 22
> MciStat 0xbaa000000002010b
> MciAddr 0x0
> MciMisc 0xd01a0ffe00000000
> ErrorType 9
> TransactionType 2
> Participation 256
> RequestType 0
> MemorIO 256
> MemHierarchyLvl 3
> Timeout 256
> OperationType 256
> Channel 256
> Length 936


Had the exact same issue with by 3800X except I wouldn’t sleep my computer. It would crash on idle.

Consistently on my lunch breaks where the computer sat dormant for 30 mns to an hr. I didn’t want to bother try bumping voltages to keep 3800 / 1900 IF so I dialled it back to 3600 / 1800 IF and never had the issue again.

WHEA errors in Event logger (critical events) but wouldn’t show in HWiNFO either.

All started after I upgraded to AGESA 1.2.0.2 (USB dropout resolver).

I’m sure there is a solution but if you simply want to avoid the crashing, dial back the IF.

I think I have some event logs saved. I can screenshot them tomorrow.


----------



## Worldwin

Anyone have any luck getting IF >1900? I think its possible for mine to do 1933 as it gets 10 WHEA in 20m in OCCT. Not sure what tweaks il need to get that to 0.


----------



## tabascosauz

BJT1000 said:


> There does seem to be some WHEA errors in the event viewer, just not reported in HWInfo, fairly non-descript though:
> 
> I know if I back off the RAM/infinity overclock to 3733/1833 its all fine. Just not sure what would change from going into sleep mode to make it unstable? From a fresh boot I've gamed/regular use etc 300+ hours at these settings and its rock solid which is the confusing bit?


Cache hierarchy isn't Fabric-related. It comes from the cores and is usually just plain instability, not enough volts for what the indicated core (APIC ID) wants to do. If you're using hefty curve optimizer offsets, you should be verifying your settings with the likes of corecycler/OCCT.

If you're not using curve optimizer and it happens during idle, board might be idling too low. Can try a positive Vcore offset, disabling PSU low current idle, disabling Cstates, or a different BIOS

If you are convinced it's still Fabric related (WHEAs aren't always 100% accurate) most BIOSes have a DF Cstates setting that you can disable, but given how IFOP-type Fabric in the chiplet CPUs works I'm not sure it does anything. I keep it disabled on APUs however, sometimes seems to make a difference there


----------



## BJT1000

tabascosauz said:


> Cache hierarchy isn't Fabric-related. It comes from the cores and is usually just plain instability, not enough volts for what the indicated core (APIC ID) wants to do. If you're using hefty curve optimizer offsets, you should be verifying your settings with the likes of corecycler/OCCT.
> 
> If you're not using curve optimizer and it happens during idle, board might be idling too low. Can try a positive Vcore offset, disabling PSU low current idle, disabling Cstates, or a different BIOS
> 
> If you are convinced it's still Fabric related (WHEAs aren't always 100% accurate) most BIOSes have a DF Cstates setting that you can disable, but given how IFOP-type Fabric in the chiplet CPUs works I'm not sure it does anything. I keep it disabled on APUs however, sometimes seems to make a difference there


Thanks for that, I'll have a play..


----------



## axaro1

Have all the Windows 11 vs Windows 10 issues been fixed? I'm not talking just about cache latency but also random I/O read speed issues, any performance difference? I'm currently on W10.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

@BJT1000
Does your event viewer look something like this? I can tell you from my experience, cores can be stable with your settings but once you touch IF, it all needs to be revalidated. Adding this in addition to tabascosauz's comment. 


Spoiler: Event Viewer













_A fatal hardware error has occurred.

Reported by component: Processor Core
Error Source: Machine Check Exception
Error Type: Cache Hierarchy Error
Processor APIC ID: 15

The details view of this entry contains further information._


----------



## Brocky

Hi,

New to the 5800X3D, just installed, whats the general consensus with this processor, slight overclock, or better to undervolt, if so I assume the Github PBO2 way is the best? How do I check what week my CPU is?


Thanks,


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Brocky said:


> Hi,
> 
> New to the 5800X3D, just installed, whats the general consensus with this processor, slight overclock, or better to undervolt, if so I assume the Github PBO2 way is the best? How do I check what week my CPU is?
> 
> 
> Thanks,


I'd suggest skimming through the first 5-15 pages of the thread. It'll take about 10-20mns and will help explain a lot (in my view).

OC / UV is disabled. Bus Clock overclocking is the only way to get the CPU to boost above 4.5 GHz. 4.45GHz is the max all core boost you'll see. Github PBO2 is the only other way to OC / UV (negative offsets on Curve Optimizer).

Information is listed / printed on the IHS. How to read CPU info:


Spoiler: Reddit link





__
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/6scnlg


----------



## Brocky

Slaughtahouse said:


> I'd suggest skimming through the first 5-15 pages of the thread. It'll take about 10-20mns and will help explain a lot (in my view).
> 
> OC / UV is disabled. Bus Clock overclocking is the only way to get the CPU to boost above 4.5 GHz. 4.45GHz is the max all core boost you'll see. Github PBO2 is the only other way to OC / UV (negative offsets on Curve Optimizer).
> 
> Information is listed / printed on the IHS. How to read CPU info:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Reddit link
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/6scnlg


Super mate will have a read through and follow the links. Much appreciated


FYI: 29th Week of 2022, PGS mine 5800X3D is


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Forgot to mention there is ONE other way to modify power targets. It's exclusive with MSI motherboards if I recall correctly. MSI Kombustor MSI Kombo Strike*? Sorry, I dont have more info but it was discussed a few pages back and early in the thread too.






MSI's new 'Kombo Strike': boosts Ryzen 7 5800X3D CPU performance, more


MSI's new 'Kombo Strike' feature for its AM4-based 500-series motherboards boosts perf + undervolting support for Ryzen 7 5800X3D.




www.tweaktown.com


----------



## Brocky

Slaughtahouse said:


> I'd suggest skimming through the first 5-15 pages of the thread. It'll take about 10-20mns and will help explain a lot (in my view).
> 
> OC / UV is disabled. Bus Clock overclocking is the only way to get the CPU to boost above 4.5 GHz. 4.45GHz is the max all core boost you'll see. Github PBO2 is the only other way to OC / UV (negative offsets on Curve Optimizer).
> 
> Information is listed / printed on the IHS. How to read CPU info:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Reddit link
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/6scnlg


-30 on all cores seems to be ok so far... I see many people mentioning memory etc too, should I follow the DDR4 guide to overclocking on Zen 3 tuning guide?


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Brocky said:


> -30 on all cores seems to be ok so far... I see many people mentioning memory etc too, should I follow the DDR4 guide to overclocking on Zen 3 tuning guide?


Zen 3 tuning guide should still be applicable but let others chime in (don't take my advice). I don't have the greatest kit (timings), or experience with RAM turning to advise here.


----------



## Jabdah

Well well well, im now runing my rig without ANY overclocking.... 3dmark time spy lost 100 points...
I don`t care...

Bios is set to default, RAM to XMP, no tweak for the CPU. Latest MSI Bios for my B550 Tomahawk.

But... this is new for me









3 Cores on 4.550MHz is absolutly new for me...

I thought only 2 cores are able to reach the magic 4.550 limit ?

yours
Frank


----------



## BJT1000

Slaughtahouse said:


> @BJT1000
> Does your event viewer look something like this? I can tell you from my experience, cores can be stable with your settings but once you touch IF, it all needs to be revalidated. Adding this in addition to tabascosauz's comment.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Event Viewer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2575578
> 
> 
> _A fatal hardware error has occurred.
> 
> Reported by component: Processor Core
> Error Source: Machine Check Exception
> Error Type: Cache Hierarchy Error
> Processor APIC ID: 15
> 
> The details view of this entry contains further information._


Don't seem to be getting any of the yellow warnings, just the cache hierarchy errors. It runs totally stable even after sleep if I lower the IF though.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Jabdah said:


> I thought only 2 cores are able to reach the magic 4.550 limit ?












Don't think that was ever mentioned (limit of 2). 

@BJT1000 - You can dive further into it with other users and start tweaking voltages here but I couldn't solve it on my system with older Zen processor. Even stock CPU settings, PBO disabled etc. I couldn't avoid the issue.


----------



## StevieRay2

2 cores reach 4550 at the same time, all cores are capable of getting to 4550


----------



## Blameless

Slaughtahouse said:


> Forgot to mention there is ONE other way to modify power targets. It's exclusive with MSI motherboards if I recall correctly. MSI Kombustor MSI Kombo Strike*? Sorry, I dont have more info but it was discussed a few pages back and early in the thread too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MSI's new 'Kombo Strike': boosts Ryzen 7 5800X3D CPU performance, more
> 
> 
> MSI's new 'Kombo Strike' feature for its AM4-based 500-series motherboards boosts perf + undervolting support for Ryzen 7 5800X3D.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tweaktown.com


Kombo Strike is -10 all core CO per level. They probably have to call it something other than curve optimizer to skirt AMD's limitations.

That said, almost any board can take a negative CO with the 5800X3D with tools to edit NVRAM. The feature isn't disabled, just hidden.



BJT1000 said:


> Don't seem to be getting any of the yellow warnings, just the cache hierarchy errors.


Probably fabric clock, but too much negative CO can occasionally cause cache hierarchy errors.


----------



## tabascosauz

Slaughtahouse said:


> Forgot to mention there is ONE other way to modify power targets. It's exclusive with MSI motherboards if I recall correctly. MSI Kombustor MSI Kombo Strike*? Sorry, I dont have more info but it was discussed a few pages back and early in the thread too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MSI's new 'Kombo Strike': boosts Ryzen 7 5800X3D CPU performance, more
> 
> 
> MSI's new 'Kombo Strike' feature for its AM4-based 500-series motherboards boosts perf + undervolting support for Ryzen 7 5800X3D.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tweaktown.com


I moved back into the other board today to verify some stuff. Can confirm that Kombo Strike is just CO in increments of -10. PBO2 Tuner confirms when you open it.

Unfortunately Unify-X seems to be between a rock and a hard place for 5800X3D. I left the Unify-X on A.30 last time so it boots but base clock only. There is only A.50 and A.70 (1206 and 1207 AGESA respectively) available.

A.50 actually has PBO limits and scalar in BIOS, for some reason. And they work, and stick after reboot. Unfortunately no CO as expected, and also no separate VDDG_CCD and VDDG_IOD control 🤨 MSI what the hell, it worked fine on A.30

A.70 restores separate VDDG control, and has Kombo Strike which works............but unfortunately seems to remove the PBO menu. Also it's 1207, so it grenades my clocks and scores across the board.

I saw some reference to beta BIOSes but from the 4201 BIOS on Impact and A.70 BIOS on Unify-X I have resolved not to touch another 1207 AGESA bios with a 10 foot pole.

As for the aforementioned some stuff, I'm giving up on 1900 FCLK, Unify-X also throws a 07 code just like Impact. Just like the Impact it does 3800 no sweat, just can't do 1:1. All out of tricks to throw at it now. I guess I am just a magnet for dud Ryzens


----------



## ilmazzo

Yo guys

I've been quite busy testing a lot of my retro hardare piled in the last year so I put the ddr oc in pause....

I'll post some screen asap because I feel I'm missing something....the 1900IF-3800RAM is stable(ish) but I don't get return bench wise after tightening here and there the timings....seems I can't get to 16-16-16 on the primaries even with generous (but not extreme at all) voltages for SOC and other things....so right now I'm at 3800 16-18-18-40 and within 62-63ns in aida latency, 53MB read, 30.3mb write and 60MB copy... but I'm not that far from the 18-20-40 I had as the baseline scenario 

CB20 is not scaling but that is expected....

well, need to understand better each other I presume....


----------



## ilmazzo

Another quick thing: are there any X470 Taichi owners? Better stay on the 1.2.0.6b agesa or go to the latest 1.2.0.7? (windows 10 professional)


----------



## Blameless

ilmazzo said:


> Yo guys
> 
> I've been quite busy testing a lot of my retro hardare piled in the last year so I put the ddr oc in pause....
> 
> I'll post some screen asap because I feel I'm missing something....the 1900IF-3800RAM is stable(ish) but I don't get return bench wise after tightening here and there the timings....seems I can't get to 16-16-16 on the primaries even with generous (but not extreme at all) voltages for SOC and other things....so right now I'm at 3800 16-18-18-40 and within 62-63ns in aida latency, 53MB read, 30.3mb write and 60MB copy... but I'm not that far from the 18-20-40 I had as the baseline scenario
> 
> CB20 is not scaling but that is expected....
> 
> well, need to understand better each other I presume....


A lot of tests are not memory sensitive. Many of the ones that are see the impact from system memory significantly blunted by the large cache on the 5800X3D.

I just built a second 5800X3D system for a friend and reused some ancient (for DDR4) Hynix M-die stuff that won't do anything over 2400MT/s. It's almost impossible for me to tell the difference between it an my 3800MT/s Samsung B-die stuff in the same system (and both at 1900 FCLK), without directly benching the memory itself. 7-Zip is maybe 6% slower. P1% frame times in games are averaging ~3% worse, with average frame rates within margin of error. A few titles that are ultra sensitive to memory are hovering around the threshold of perception, but even as picky as I am, I would have extreme difficulty telling the memory configs apart in a blind test.


----------



## ilmazzo

Yeah and that's fine since it is exactly what the added cache is all about

A platform with a 3D in it is by far the most efficient one in gaming related tasks when you can just let it sit at default on both cpu voltages (well, you can even undervolt it) and low powered DDR4 while giving up very little performance.... but since I like tweaking my stuff I'll do it anyway. Until I don't find a rock solid 1900IF configuration I can just load the default + XMP profile in UEFI and get the 95% of the performance potential....


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Not a concern, just a question:

Does anyone else experience a difference in the way Bus Clock is reported when modifying Infinity Fabric speeds?


Spoiler: Stock vs. IF1900 profile





















I thought it was just a fluke but its easily repeatable. FYI: have bus manually set to 100 Mhz in both my "stock" and my "IF1900" profiles set in the BIOS/UEFI.


----------



## Frosted racquet

Have you disabled Spread Spectrum in BIOS?


----------



## Slaughtahouse

On Gigabyte boards (to my knowledge), you do that by manually setting the clock. Can't find that setting in the BIOS/UEFI.

Edit: The option to disable it pops up as a toggle when I set it to AUTO.








Just more curious why that behaviour happens when modifying IF.

With those BIOS settings (stock + disabled spread spectrum control), same result. 99.8.



Spoiler: Stock + Disabled Spread Spectrum Control















Ignore the difference in RAM timings. I've adjusted Stock settings with gear down mode *enabled. *Previously it was disabled (which isn't stock).


----------



## paih85

Slaughtahouse said:


> On Gigabyte boards (to my knowledge), you do that by manually setting the clock. Can't find that setting in the BIOS/UEFI.
> 
> Edit: The option to disable it pops up as a toggle when I set it to AUTO.
> View attachment 2575819
> 
> Just more curious why that behaviour happens when modifying IF.
> 
> With those BIOS settings (stock + disabled spread spectrum control), same result. 99.8.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Stock + Disabled Spread Spectrum Control
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2575820
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ignore the difference in RAM timings. I've adjusted Stock settings with gear down mode *enabled. *Previously it was disabled (which isn't stock).


Have you enabled core isolation inside windows setting? if yes please try disable it.


----------



## sentlon

can anayone guide me got to oc my 5800x3d on a MSI x570 creation ?


----------



## bmagnien

wow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580766868142366720


----------



## Blameless

Slaughtahouse said:


> On Gigabyte boards (to my knowledge), you do that by manually setting the clock. Can't find that setting in the BIOS/UEFI.
> 
> Edit: The option to disable it pops up as a toggle when I set it to AUTO.
> View attachment 2575819
> 
> Just more curious why that behaviour happens when modifying IF.
> 
> With those BIOS settings (stock + disabled spread spectrum control), same result. 99.8.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Stock + Disabled Spread Spectrum Control
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2575820
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ignore the difference in RAM timings. I've adjusted Stock settings with gear down mode *enabled. *Previously it was disabled (which isn't stock).


How do you have HWiNFO's CPU clock measurement setup in the safety tab?


----------



## 4i4ymi

bmagnien said:


> wow
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580766868142366720
> View attachment 2575919


Where's GPU? 
Is it ES chip?


----------



## jootn2kx

Just ignore it's a troll


----------



## 4i4ymi

sentlon said:


> can anayone guide me got to oc my 5800x3d on a MSI x570 creation ?


Advance mode
+ OC
++ Advance CPU config
*+++ Kombo Strike > 3 **

+++ AMD CBS
*++++ Global C state control > Enable*
*++++ CPPB > Enable*
*++++ CPPC Preferrred Cores > Disable*

*
KS lvl 3 1.15v vs lvl 0 1.25v
Temp more than 85C, Clock will reduce automatical

+ Adjust base clock


----------



## BNSoul

quick and dirty test with latest X570 drivers released yesterday ( link )

Boost testing with "Ryzen snapshot mode" (actual speed instead of generic 4550), stock settings, balanced power plan.










3 cores boosting simultaneously.










so more or less the same stuff as previous chipset drivers, I haven't upgraded to W11 22H2 yet, will let others beta test it until it gets Direct Storage support.


----------



## axaro1

Should I also keep Cool&Quiet enabled or is C-States enough to make the 5800x3d run cooler idle?


----------



## Slaughtahouse

paih85 said:


> Have you enabled core isolation inside windows setting? if yes please try disable it.


I have never heard of such a setting. I'll troubleshoot it. Edit: I don't seem to have that feature enabled in Windows.



















Blameless said:


> How do you have HWiNFO's CPU clock measurement setup in the safety tab?


Got to be honest, it took me about 5mns to find the Settings tab vs Sensor Settings. For others -> right click on HWiNFO icon in tray.


----------



## ManniX-ITA

BNSoul said:


> Boost testing with "Ryzen snapshot mode" (actual speed instead of generic 4550), stock settings, balanced power plan.


You should check both the reference clock (with Core n Clock perf #n/n) and the effective clock (with Core n T0 Effective).

If you see under effective also T1 then the option Snapshot pooling is not enabled, you need it enabled:










Also in Sensors settings set temporarily the pooling period global to 500ms.


----------



## sentlon

4i4ymi said:


> Advance mode
> + OC
> ++ Advance CPU config
> *+++ Kombo Strike > 3 **
> 
> +++ AMD CBS
> *++++ Global C state control > Enable*
> *++++ CPPB > Enable*
> *++++ CPPC Preferrred Cores > Disable*
> 
> *
> KS lvl 3 1.15v vs lvl 0 1.25v
> Temp more than 85C, Clock will reduce automatical
> 
> + Adjust base clock


how can i adjust the base clock ?
isnt the cpu have lock the multiplier ?


----------



## 4i4ymi

sentlon said:


> how can i adjust the base clock ?
> isnt the cpu have lock the multiplier ?


Bus speed
normally is 100


----------



## loki_toki

bclk at 102 but core clock won't go over 4450/4550.
anyone know which could be the cause?


----------



## Jacks.

hi guys total noob here i just wanna know if i can undervolt 5800x3d on Asus VIII hero wifi from the bios ? and how ? can some one guide me


----------



## Ironcobra

New owner here coming from a 5800x and having a bear going past 3733 on mem, cant even hit my xmp with these sticks or gdm disabled which was a breeze on the other chip on my master x570. Hoping a future bios update helps out. Anyone see anything out of whack here with my close to xmp settings?


----------



## StevieRay2

Slaughtahouse said:


> I have never heard of such a setting. I'll troubleshoot it. Edit: I don't seem to have that feature enabled in Windows.
> View attachment 2575960
> 
> View attachment 2575959
> 
> 
> 
> Got to be honest, it took me about 5mns to find the Settings tab vs Sensor Settings. For others -> right click on HWiNFO icon in tray.
> View attachment 2575958


I don't seem to have that core isolation option either, odd


----------



## 4i4ymi

StevieRay2 said:


> I don't seem to have that core isolation option either, odd


What's this function?


----------



## sentlon

4i4ymi said:


> Bus speed
> normally is 100
> View attachment 2575971


able to push to 102 bus speed how however some application do not work properly like CPU-Z and AIDA64.
it also need to reset many time to boot the system or totally unbootable and need to clear the BIOS.
any reason of causing the stability of it?


----------



## 4i4ymi

sentlon said:


> able to push to 102 bus speed how however some application do not work properly like CPU-Z and AIDA64.
> it also need to reset many time to boot the system or totally unbootable and need to clear the BIOS.
> any reason of causing the stability of it?


voltage is not enough
Reduce KS lvl to 2 or 1 or disable

But check your CPU temp. first. if it is higher than 85c clock will drop.


----------



## ManniX-ITA

4i4ymi said:


> What's this function?





StevieRay2 said:


> I don't seem to have that core isolation option either, odd





https://www.thefastcode.com/en-usd/article/what-are-core-isolation-and-memory-integrity-in-windows-10



You need to have SVM (AMD-V) and TPM enabled to see this option in Windows Defender.

It provides additional security but at a cost of performances.
So high that Microsoft recommends to disable it for Gaming.


----------



## Blameless

ManniX-ITA said:


> You need to have SVM (AMD-V) and TPM enabled to see this option in Windows Defender.


Just SVM should be enough. Core Isolation has been enabled by default on my systems that have TPM completely disabled.


----------



## ManniX-ITA

Blameless said:


> Just SVM should be enough. Core Isolation has been enabled by default on my systems that have TPM completely disabled.


Yes also on mine it's enough SVM.
Maybe it's specific to Windows 11?


----------



## sentlon

4i4ymi said:


> voltage is not enough
> Reduce KS lvl to 2 or 1 or disable
> 
> But check your CPU temp. first. if it is higher than 85c clock will drop.


no luck for me.
i did push the voltage to 1.3 
still not able to boot. 
is there others reason ?


----------



## 4i4ymi

sentlon said:


> no luck for me.
> i did push the voltage to 1.3
> still not able to boot.
> is there others reason ?


How about your ram bus?


----------



## sentlon

4i4ymi said:


> How about your ram bus?


i have 2 pair of ddr3200 .
what setting do u recommend on it ?


----------



## Nighthog

I don't know for sure but yesterday when I did my last reboot to change a setting in BIOS, WHEA issues no longer appear to be reported with my 5800X3D.
Running 2066FCLK and HWiNFO is not reporting any WHEA, and windows whea-logg doesn't report them either. (service not running?)
Random bug? I tried the WHEA suppressor thing a few days back but it failed to install properly and it didn't "suppress" any errors for a few days in-between at least. 
Why would it start working almost a week later?


----------



## ValSidalv21

BNSoul said:


> quick and dirty test with latest X570 drivers released yesterday ( link )


Installed these on my B550 because there was supposed to be some bug fixes for the power management driver:

AMD PPM Provisioning File Driver8.0.0.148.0.0.14Bug fixes
Except typically for AMD they packed the old .13 driver in the installation.
Not to mention that I have to install that driver by hand since the installation summary always returns a failed status when I run the installer.


----------



## ilmazzo

Hwinfo screenshots after a timespy run





Any thoughts?


----------



## Nighthog

ilmazzo said:


> Hwinfo screenshots after a timespy run
> 
> Any thoughts?


What are you looking for? Looks just normal.
Got a much better ambient temperature than me. I'm here toasting @ 26C when it's only 12C outside.


----------



## 4i4ymi

sentlon said:


> i have 2 pair of ddr3200 .
> what setting do u recommend on it ?


sorry
I have no idea


----------



## Blameless

ManniX-ITA said:


> Yes also on mine it's enough SVM.
> Maybe it's specific to Windows 11?


I have TPM disabled on the only Win 11 setup I have, the option is still present.


----------



## StevieRay2

doubt post


----------



## StevieRay2

Do you guys have hardware-accelerated scheduling and variable refresh rate on or off in Windows under graphics?
And any benefits to it off or on?



Blameless said:


> Just SVM should be enough. Core Isolation has been enabled by default on my systems that have TPM completely disabled.





ManniX-ITA said:


> https://www.thefastcode.com/en-usd/article/what-are-core-isolation-and-memory-integrity-in-windows-10
> 
> 
> 
> You need to have SVM (AMD-V) and TPM enabled to see this option in Windows Defender.
> 
> It provides additional security but at a cost of performances.
> So high that Microsoft recommends to disable it for Gaming.


Where is SVM(AMD-V) located in MSI BIOS? I can't seem to find that anywhere
Edit: found it, is it suggested to turn core isolation off for better performance for gaming? Mine seems to be default off since turning on SVM


----------



## ManniX-ITA

Blameless said:


> I have TPM disabled on the only Win 11 setup I have, the option is still present.


Which makes sense as Win10 can enable it without as well.
Not sure why MS documentation and 3rd party all mention TPM as requirement.
Maybe provides some enhanced security feature with it.



StevieRay2 said:


> Do you guys have hardware-accelerated scheduling and variable refresh rate on or off in Windows under graphics?
> And any benefits to it off or on?


It gives a small boost in some games but reduce by a small to a major amount fps in many other games.
Better to keep it disabled.









Windows 10 Hardware-Accelerated GPU Scheduling Benchmarks (Frametimes, FPS)


Enabling hardware-accelerated GPU scheduling requires Windows 10 2004, a supported GPU, and the latest drivers for that GPU (NVIDIA version 451.48, AMD version 20.5.1 Beta). -




 www.gamersnexus.net













Hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduling Performance Revisited


Windows 11 Hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduling performance analysis with an RTX 3080 MASTER benching 26 PC games using GeForce driver 512.15.




babeltechreviews.com







StevieRay2 said:


> Where is SVM(AMD-V) located in MSI BIOS? I can't seem to find that anywhere
> Edit: found it, is it suggested to turn core isolation off for better performance for gaming? Mine seems to be default off since turning on SVM


Not sure in which case is enabled by default.
Yes it's better disabled for performances, especially gaming.
I can't enable it at all cause I have a massive amount of drivers which are not compatible.


----------



## ManniX-ITA

Nighthog said:


> I don't know for sure but yesterday when I did my last reboot to change a setting in BIOS, WHEA issues no longer appear to be reported with my 5800X3D.
> Running 2066FCLK and HWiNFO is not reporting any WHEA, and windows whea-logg doesn't report them either. (service not running?)
> Random bug? I tried the WHEA suppressor thing a few days back but it failed to install properly and it didn't "suppress" any errors for a few days in-between at least.
> Why would it start working almost a week later?


WHEA Suppressor is a system service that starts and stops, if it's installed you can set the start type to disabled to be sure it doesn't activate the suppression.
If you want to check the WHEA initialization you need to look for Event 5 on Applications and Services Logs>Microsoft>Windows>Kernel-WHEA>Operational


----------



## Jabdah

ilmazzo said:


> Hwinfo screenshots after a timespy run
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any thoughts?


Dude... please take a screenshot with your computer, not mobile. If your not fam with this, install greenshot... Press the Print key if you wanna make a screenshot, edit it, save it... and voila... Done


----------



## Demonkevy666

Jabdah said:


> Dude... please take a screenshot with your computer, not mobile. If your not fam with this, install greenshot... Press the Print key if you wanna make a screenshot, edit it, save it... and voila... Done


windows key plus print screen button


----------



## ilmazzo

Nighthog said:


> What are you looking for? Looks just normal.
> Got a much better ambient temperature than me. I'm here toasting @ 26C when it's only 12C outside.


well,”normal” is already a good start 

i’m just doubtful regarding two measures:
Only few cores get to the 4450 multi-load cheiling
The power deviation percentages: i’m between 60% min and 130% max


----------



## bonet69

Ironcobra said:


> New owner here coming from a 5800x and having a bear going past 3733 on mem, cant even hit my xmp with these sticks or gdm disabled which was a breeze on the other chip on my master x570. Hoping a future bios update helps out. Anyone see anything out of whack here with my close to xmp settings?


Hi, i am in the same boat cant go over 3733 on mem, but i can share with you my memory timings, currently 1.45v on ram:




We have the same memory kit but yours could be lower binned, try with 1.46v and check if its stable if not lower to 1.45v and raise trcdrd to 15, 14 is usually harder to hit stable.

Regards


----------



## AXi0M

bonet69 said:


> Hi, i am in the same boat cant go over 3733 on mem, but i can share with you my memory timings, currently 1.45v on ram:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have the same memory kit but yours could be lower binned, try with 1.46v and check if its stable if not lower to 1.45v and raise trcdrd to 15, 14 is usually harder to hit stable.
> 
> Regards


Try more SOC, 1v is kinda low. 135ns Trfc is also pretty tight for 1.45v unless you keep the ram cold. try 16's for the primary timings and see if higher frequency works, bandwidth is more important than latency on the 3D chips.


----------



## Owterspace

Thats pretty decent, I need 1.5v to do flat 14s at 3733. Right now I am running at where my fclk tops out. I have seen a few guys cap at 3733, honestly you arent really missing much. These are no fun for overclocking.

My daily settings:










It's really nothing special, just the default timings given for stock 2133 with a tight tRFC. VDIMM is at 1.575v to keep it kosher across 4x8.


----------



## senzu

If anyone is wondering how the 5800x3d performs with a budget motherboard (MSI B450 Tomahawk ~$100) and RAM (G.Skill Aegis 32 Gb DDR4-3200 CL16 ~$90), I think it's functional, you just need a good cooler. I'm using -30 CO to all cores, Global C-State enabled, CPPC enabled, CPPC Preferred cores disabled, RAM to 3200 Mhz and that's it.


----------



## evilhf

with the biosmod @Reous X570 crosshair formula I managed to improve my score
curve optmizer in bios


----------



## 4i4ymi

I have a problem with gaming.
When using Cinebench or other testing program Clock CPU will follow the setup.
But when playing a game, CPU clock is always down to 4450.
I already test by disabling KS mode, lvl1, lvl2, and lvl3. But nothing.

How to solve this problem?


----------



## StevieRay2

4i4ymi said:


> I have a problem with gaming.
> When using Cinebench or other testing program Clock CPU will follow the setup.
> But when playing a game, CPU clock is always down to 4450.
> I already test by disabling KS mode, lvl1, lvl2, and lvl3. But nothing.
> 
> How to solve this problem?


Gaming rarely gets the cores to hit single core boost, they mainly stay on multi core boost which is 4450mhz


----------



## Dziarson

@4i4ymi @jootn2kx 5800X3D Rev.VMR-B2 low Mem speeds 
































AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D(ES) @ HWBOT


8 submissions, 0/100 hw index




hwbot.org


----------



## 4i4ymi

StevieRay2 said:


> Gaming rarely gets the cores to hit single core boost, they mainly stay on multi core boost which is 4450mhz


Single core always boost to 4450. Afterburner show random 4 core always boost to 4450 when gaming. other around 3600.
But when I use CPU Z benchmark I will see all core and single core more than 4450.


----------



## 4i4ymi

Dziarson said:


> @4i4ymi @jootn2kx 5800X3D Rev.VMR-B2 low Mem speeds
> View attachment 2576409
> 
> 
> View attachment 2576410
> 
> 
> View attachment 2576411
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D(ES) @ HWBOT
> 
> 
> 8 submissions, 0/100 hw index
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hwbot.org


How normal user can do like this? 
T^T


----------



## 2080tiowner

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D(ES) @ HWBOT


8 submissions, 0/100 hw index




hwbot.org




[/QUOTE]

Hi, i've a VMR-B2 but impossible to unlock the multiplier, maybe a bios mod and i would like to have it !


----------



## 2080tiowner

evilhf said:


> with the biosmod @Reous X570 crosshair formula I managed to improve my score
> curve optmizer in bios
> View attachment 2576399


How it's possible to go at 106.6 mhz at bus clock ? with my crosshair VIII Dark hero it's not possible to go highter than 100.25 mhz lol


----------



## jootn2kx

4i4ymi said:


> How normal user can do like this?
> T^T


We don't know probably unlocked multiplier, eitherway a engineered cpu sample and / or unlocked bios version.


----------



## bonet69

AXi0M said:


> Try more SOC, 1v is kinda low. 135ns Trfc is also pretty tight for 1.45v unless you keep the ram cold. try 16's for the primary timings and see if higher frequency works, bandwidth is more important than latency on the 3D chips.


Thanks for the advice, my last cpu 5800x could do 4066mhz (2x16gb) cl14 and this 5800x3d is stable with 1v soc at 3733 but will not boot at 3800 and from there (3866+) it will boot but full of wheas, no matter the voltages of soc or vddgs.... also i have a small fan between the 2 ram sticks so no problem for temps. So this 5800x3d cant go above of 3733 without wheas...

Regards


----------



## tabascosauz

@Verangry switched back to my Unify-X. The A.71 BIOS you made works great, easy flash via flashback unlike the Impact. No need to use PBO2 Tuner anymore. Cinebench MT clock drop as usual due to AGESA1207 but I don't care

It would be interesting to explore boost clock override if you were able to make it work, but otherwise it's great. Thanks again.


----------



## ilmazzo

Did not tune anything in the last days to improve timings but managed to get stable gaming wise in Hunt showdown, a very salty game regarding stability to me....with the 2600X I had nothing would be long stable above the default 3200/1600 setting, I could only tighten the timings as far as I could and that's it. Right now I'm ok at 1900/3800 and the "quite loosy" timings .... I'll manage to put the "ddr/IF voltages" at the "high but not extreme" levels and see where I can get, then I'll regulate voltages accordingly ...anyway I'm still enjoying a butter-smooth gaming so it will be just for my e-peen


----------



## icehotshot

Does it seem like the 5800x3d has worse memory stability/OC than non 3d chips?

I just got my 5800x3d and as soon as I set my memory to 3200mhz/fclk to 1600mhz I instantly get CPU Bus/Interconnect errors. No matter how much I manually tweak the voltages, I can't get the errors to go away.

The only thing that allowed me to run without errors was enabling LN2 mode. This was a trick I used back in earlier bios revisions to get 1900 IF with my 3900x and it works now as well with my 5800x3d to get the memory/IF stable. It definitely increases the SOC voltage but obviously does other things as well.

My non 3d 5800x can run 3800mhz/1900 IF all day on auto voltages.....lol

Probably doesn't help my board only has two bios out that support the x3d and the latest one is 3 months old and still in beta.....board is a Gigabyte X570 Aorus Pro Wifi with F36d.


----------



## Nighthog

icehotshot said:


> Does it seem like the 5800x3d has worse memory stability/OC than non 3d chips?
> 
> I just got my 5800x3d and as soon as I set my memory to 3200mhz/fclk to 1600mhz I instantly get CPU Bus/Interconnect errors. No matter how much I manually tweak the voltages, I can't get the errors to go away.
> 
> The only thing that allowed me to run without errors was enabling LN2 mode. This was a trick I used back in earlier bios revisions to get 1900 IF with my 3900x and it works now as well with my 5800x3d to get the memory/IF stable. It definitely increases the SOC voltage but obviously does other things as well.
> 
> My non 3d 5800x can run 3800mhz/1900 IF all day on auto voltages.....lol
> 
> Probably doesn't help my board only has two bios out that support the x3d and the latest one is 3 months old and still in beta.....board is a Gigabyte X570 Aorus Pro Wifi with F36d.


There are some BIOS versions on Gigabyte boards that are suboptimal with the 5800X3D in general. Try to use the latest BIOS.


----------



## Verangry

tabascosauz said:


> @Verangry
> It would be interesting to explore boost clock override if you were able to make it work, but otherwise it's great. Thanks again.


Unfortunately it is locked.
I've tried everything I can so far, no matter what, once you change the override it stays with the base clock.

But as soon as there is a new AGESA, I will try again.


----------



## icehotshot

Nighthog said:


> There are some BIOS versions on Gigabyte boards that are suboptimal with the 5800X3D in general. Try to use the latest BIOS.


Yeah I am, just unfortunate the latest bios is 3 months old at this point and still in beta.


----------



## Jacks.

senzu said:


> If anyone is wondering how the 5800x3d performs with a budget motherboard (MSI B450 Tomahawk ~$100) and RAM (G.Skill Aegis 32 Gb DDR4-3200 CL16 ~$90), I think it's functional, you just need a good cooler. I'm using -30 CO to all cores, Global C-State enabled, CPPC enabled, CPPC Preferred cores disabled, RAM to 3200 Mhz and that's it.
> View attachment 2576389


can you please tell me what cooler you have ? also ambient temp ? max cpu temp?


----------



## senzu

Jacks. said:


> can you please tell me what cooler you have ? also ambient temp ? max cpu temp?


I have a Thermalright Macho with a Scythe Slip Stream 1900 rpm fan, but I'm upgrading to a Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 soon.The ambient temp was around 22-23 celcius, max CPU temp is 80 celcius (that Scythe Slip Stream has serious CFM, ~88 around 1600 rpm, but loud as hell).


----------



## Jacks.

senzu said:


> I have a Thermalright Macho with a Scythe Slip Stream 1900 rpm fan, but I'm upgrading to a Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 soon.The ambient temp was around 22-23 celcius, max CPU temp is 80 celcius (that Scythe Slip Stream has serious CFM, ~88 around 1600 rpm, but loud as hell).


do you think Thermalright FC 140 is good ? or i should get something like nh-d15s ?
sorry to bather you but i'm have a real trouble keeping this cpu cool even with 360 galahad aio


----------



## senzu

Jacks. said:


> do you think Thermalright FC 140 is good ? or i should get something like nh-d15s ?
> sorry to bather you but i'm have a real trouble keeping this cpu cool even with 360 galahad aio


Based on this, it seems to be adequate


----------



## 4i4ymi

senzu said:


> If anyone is wondering how the 5800x3d performs with a budget motherboard (MSI B450 Tomahawk ~$100) and RAM (G.Skill Aegis 32 Gb DDR4-3200 CL16 ~$90), I think it's functional, you just need a good cooler. I'm using -30 CO to all cores, Global C-State enabled, CPPC enabled, CPPC Preferred cores disabled, RAM to 3200 Mhz and that's it.
> View attachment 2576389


Did you use KS or not?
How multiply up to 45.5?
For my CPU It only 44.5 but single score of CPU z is higher.


----------



## loki_toki

like.. how and why, bclk at 101.9 max boost 4530??


----------



## axaro1

loki_toki said:


> like.. how and why, bclk at 101.9 max boost 4530??


4450*1.0198 = 4538mhz
Same behaviour with my setup, I can't automatically boost to 4550mhz so I use BCLK to achieve 4540mhz all cores (with 102.00bclk).

With HWinfo 4540mhz seems to be the limit, _however_ when I used CapframeX to benchmark Apex Legends, I noticed that all cores tend to boost up to 4581mhz.


----------



## ilmazzo

Gonna try again the bclk thing to see a 101-102 setting where will bring my system....I'll downgrade a step the IF/DDR4 of course to get again in the 1900ish range and see in gaming what this brings, if any...


----------



## icehotshot

axaro1 said:


> 4450*1.0198 = 4538mhz
> Same behaviour with my setup, I can't automatically boost to 4550mhz so I use BCLK to achieve 4540mhz all cores (with 102.00bclk).
> 
> With HWinfo 4540mhz seems to be the limit, _however_ when I used CapframeX to benchmark Apex Legends, I noticed that all cores tend to boost up to 4581mhz.



I've notice that I can only hit the specified 4.5ghz+ boost (at 100 bclk) if I have certain cpu settings in BIOS.

For me they are:
CPPC - Enabled
CPPC Preferred Cores - Disabled
Global C-State Control - Enabled

Any other combo of those three being enabled/disabled and it will only boost to 4.45-4.48.


----------



## axaro1

icehotshot said:


> I've notice that I can only hit the specified 4.5ghz+ boost (at 100 bclk) if I have certain cpu settings in BIOS.
> 
> For me they are:
> CPPC - Enabled
> CPPC Preferred Cores - Disabled
> Global C-State Control - Enabled
> 
> Any other combo of those three being enabled/disabled and it will only boost to 4.45-4.48.


I have the exact same settings.

Things I tried to mess with:

Cool&Quiet, no difference ON or OFF
Power Profiles: Ryzen Balanced/High Performance/ Ryzen Balanced Snappy v1
PBO2 Tuner: CO -30 down to 0, no difference aside from temps.

I used many different monitoring softwares to see if this was an issue with HWinfo, it kinda is since CapframeX does tell me that I boost higher, but every other software is consistent with HWinfo reporting.

I didn't run a fresh install when I went from R5 3600 to R7 5800x3d so maybe that's the cause of this issue. I honestly have no idea.


----------



## 2080tiowner

axaro1 said:


> I have the exact same settings.
> 
> Things I tried to mess with:
> 
> Cool&Quiet, no difference ON or OFF
> Power Profiles: Ryzen Balanced/High Performance/ Ryzen Balanced Snappy v1
> PBO2 Tuner: CO -30 down to 0, no difference aside from temps.
> 
> I used many different monitoring softwares to see if this was an issue with HWinfo, it kinda is since CapframeX does tell me that I boost higher, but every other software is consistent with HWinfo reporting.
> 
> I didn't run a fresh install when I went from R5 3600 to R7 5800x3d so maybe that's the cause of this issue. I honestly have no idea.


Fresh install is the solution but i dont know why, i had the same problem !


----------



## icehotshot

axaro1 said:


> _snip_
> 
> I didn't run a fresh install when I went from R5 3600 to R7 5800x3d so maybe that's the cause of this issue. I honestly have no idea.


Yeah I didn't clean install either. One day I'll get around to it and I'm sure it will fix a bunch of things haha.


----------



## axaro1

I'll wait for SSD price to drop in the next few months so I can make a fresh install on a new drive.

If BCLK works with stock freq reaching 4550mhz stock maybe I'll reach up to 4641mhz.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

I'm in the midst of fresh installs and other window related issues but anyway, never had an issue getting a single core to 4.55. I was also using my Windows Install from 2 years ago. 

Just pulled up HWiNFO and it will boost on its own to 4.55. 










I'd try just going to optimized defaults in BIOS first and monitor behaviour before reinstalling windows.


----------



## senzu

4i4ymi said:


> Did you use KS or not?
> How multiply up to 45.5?
> For my CPU It only 44.5 but single score of CPU z is higher.


I'm using PBO2 Tuner to set CO values, and the latest available BIOS with AGESA 1.2.0.7. Have you enabled Global C-States in the BIOS? I've read, that the disabled state maybe prevents the CPU from boosting to 45.5x in single threaded workloads.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Did you guys know you can access PBO in Gigabyte BIOS? I'm trying to diagnose my system for memory / windows errors at the moment and found these options. I'm not interested in playing with OC at the moment, but I tried PPT limit of 100 and it does lower it. Tested in AIDA64 (CPU + Cache stress test).


----------



## icehotshot

Slaughtahouse said:


> Did you guys know you can access PBO in Gigabyte BIOS? I'm trying to diagnose my system for memory / windows errors at the moment and found these options. I'm not interested in playing with OC at the moment, but I tried PPT limit of 100 and it does lower it. Tested in AIDA64 (CPU + Cache stress test).
> 
> View attachment 2576702
> 
> 
> View attachment 2576704


I don't think there is really PBO for the 5800x3d, the options you found are about it and they don't do much unless you wanted to limit chip as you found.

I just installed my 5800x3d and as soon as I put the memory to the "stock" 3200mhz I got a bunch of windows errors. I simply enabled LN2 mode and they all went away. This was an old trick on earlier bios revs for stabilizing the memory/fclk on my 3900x at 1900 IF.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Oh, thank you for the tip. I'm at my wits end here trying to figure this out...  Can't even get JEDEC stable... 

Yes, I know through reading this thread before that going above limits is out of the question. However, I didn't know on Gigabyte boards we had the functionality available. I assumed it wasnt and on first day, grabbed the PBO2 Tuner windows tool. I can't necessarily UV but another day when I have time and Windows is stable... Ill play around with it to see if I can sustain 4.45Ghz on all core while lowering heat via PBO reductions in limits.


----------



## StevieRay2

axaro1 said:


> I have the exact same settings.
> 
> Things I tried to mess with:
> 
> Cool&Quiet, no difference ON or OFF
> Power Profiles: Ryzen Balanced/High Performance/ Ryzen Balanced Snappy v1
> PBO2 Tuner: CO -30 down to 0, no difference aside from temps.
> 
> I used many different monitoring softwares to see if this was an issue with HWinfo, it kinda is since CapframeX does tell me that I boost higher, but every other software is consistent with HWinfo reporting.
> 
> I didn't run a fresh install when I went from R5 3600 to R7 5800x3d so maybe that's the cause of this issue. I honestly have no idea.


Yeah hitting 4550mhz is rare for me doing day to day stuff, I have to turn off almost all programs and virus scanners etc and it rarely does it or does it with cpuz single core or boost tester program. Games and other stuff don't go past 4450mhz. I truly wonder why these CPUs are so fussy to hit 4550mhz, temps are more than fine and you open one program that hardly uses any CPU/GPU and boost tester doesn't go past 4450mhz anymore


----------



## 4i4ymi

senzu said:


> I'm using PBO2 Tuner to set CO values, and the latest available BIOS with AGESA 1.2.0.7. Have you enabled Global C-States in the BIOS? I've read, that the disabled state maybe prevents the CPU from boosting to 45.5x in single threaded workloads.


Thank you.
I already disable this point but cannot yet.
And How to use PBO2 with 5800x3d? 
This function I cannot see in bios with 1.2.0.7.


----------



## ossimc

Hey guys. havent posted a while cuz i was enjoying my tuned setup without issues.

But lately i am getting some weired freezes in cod warzone (screen freezes for 2-3 seconds.no sound also). so its realy not a gpu freamspike.
Or i open my browser where still a youtube tab is open and the video also freezes for the first seconds. All this happens very rarely...maybe2 times in a 8h gameing session...sometimes not even at all.

u think its memory related?


----------



## cause

hi. why do most people stop at -30 for pbo2 when undervolting? is that a (necessary) software limit?


----------



## Smjrn

cause said:


> hi. why do most people stop at -30 for pbo2 when undervolting? is that a (necessary) software limit?


Yes the limit is -30.




ossimc said:


> Hey guys. havent posted a while cuz i was enjoying my tuned setup without issues.
> 
> But lately i am getting some weired freezes in cod warzone (screen freezes for 2-3 seconds.no sound also). so its realy not a gpu freamspike.
> Or i open my browser where still a youtube tab is open and the video also freezes for the first seconds. All this happens very rarely...maybe2 times in a 8h gameing session...sometimes not even at all.
> 
> u think its memory related?


I think you're having a GPU driver crashing. 
Search and run event viewer go to Windows Logs> System > look for an error that occurred around the time you had the spike (if source says nvlddmkm its possibly the gpu driver).
I've had same thing happen to me a few days ago, hasn't happened again after clean driver install.


----------



## Taraquin

Slaughtahouse said:


> Did you guys know you can access PBO in Gigabyte BIOS? I'm trying to diagnose my system for memory / windows errors at the moment and found these options. I'm not interested in playing with OC at the moment, but I tried PPT limit of 100 and it does lower it. Tested in AIDA64 (CPU + Cache stress test).
> 
> View attachment 2576702
> 
> 
> View attachment 2576704


Agesa 1.2.0.7? Is the advanced option under PBO showing?


----------



## Nighthog

Slaughtahouse said:


> Oh, thank you for the tip. I'm at my wits end here trying to figure this out...  Can't even get JEDEC stable...
> 
> Yes, I know through reading this thread before that going above limits is out of the question. However, I didn't know on Gigabyte boards we had the functionality available. I assumed it wasnt and on first day, grabbed the PBO2 Tuner windows tool. I can't necessarily UV but another day when I have time and Windows is stable... Ill play around with it to see if I can sustain 4.45Ghz on all core while lowering heat via PBO reductions in limits.


MSI had these available on the first BIOS they had for 5800X3D but they removed them shortly after for later releases. Though they added the CO -10, -20, -30 setting later.

Gigabyte always had them there but you can only use them to set lower targets than the stock ones. You need the AMD_OVERCLOCKING settings for being able to lift the fused limits. Those are not there on any board that I've seen yet.
Basically Ryzen Master adjust the AMD_CBS PBO settings when you use it. You need the AMD_OVERCLOCKING settings to override anything stock. 

The scalar seems to not work though.
If you want a 35W 5800X3D or something you can use the AMD_CBS PBO for that purpose.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Taraquin said:


> Agesa 1.2.0.7? Is the advanced option under PBO showing?


Yes, AGESA XXX.7.

Settings -> AMD CBS -> NBIO Common Options -> XFR Enhancement. 

If I simply select on PBO, my options are: Auto, Disable, Enable, Manual. Photo previously shared was with "Manual" selected.

Under Settings -> AMD Overclocking, the options are not available. 



Nighthog said:


> MSI had these available on the first BIOS they had for 5800X3D but they removed them shortly after for later releases. Though they added the CO -10, -20, -30 setting later.
> 
> Gigabyte always had them there but you can only use them to set lower targets than the stock ones. You need the AMD_OVERCLOCKING settings for being able to lift the fused limits. Those are not there on any board that I've seen yet.
> Basically Ryzen Master adjust the AMD_CBS PBO settings when you use it. You need the AMD_OVERCLOCKING settings to override anything stock.
> 
> The scalar seems to not work though.
> If you want a 35W 5800X3D or something you can use the AMD_CBS PBO for that purpose.


Exactly. I figured some settings simply won't work, especially any one increasing limits. However, I thought it was worth noting so other users who have a Gigabyte board and who want to play with reduced power limits.


----------



## MrGamer

Hi, does anyone know why when I run R23 my clocks stay low (and my CPU package power), but when I apply -30 on all cores it starts boosting (although gets throttled by temps)
5800X3D
ASUS Prim X570-P
Latest BIOS
DOCP Enabled
Windows Balanced Power Plan

R23 Running (No PBO curve applied)









R23 PBO -30 All Cores Applied









Something very buggy is going on. It's like it's in ECO mode, but using PBO2 Tuner -30 All cores it starts boosting it. What does PBO2 Tuner even change on a Windows Level?
edited to add: When doing single core boosts, it's hitting 4,550.3 on each core.


----------



## StevieRay2

If you're hitting those temps with -30CO in R23, you probably need a better cooling solution


----------



## kaiserc

icehotshot said:


> I've notice that I can only hit the specified 4.5ghz+ boost (at 100 bclk) if I have certain cpu settings in BIOS.
> 
> For me they are:
> CPPC - Enabled
> CPPC Preferred Cores - Disabled
> Global C-State Control - Enabled
> 
> Any other combo of those three being enabled/disabled and it will only boost to 4.45-4.48.
> [/0QUOTE]
> You mean the very same settings that have been on the front page of this post for many months. you read that right?? : )


----------



## tabascosauz

Slaughtahouse said:


> Yes, AGESA XXX.7.
> 
> Settings -> AMD CBS -> NBIO Common Options -> XFR Enhancement.
> 
> If I simply select on PBO, my options are: Auto, Disable, Enable, Manual. Photo previously shared was with "Manual" selected.
> 
> Under Settings -> AMD Overclocking, the options are not available.
> 
> Exactly. I figured some settings simply won't work, especially any one increasing limits. However, I thought it was worth noting so other users who have a Gigabyte board and who want to play with reduced power limits.


On X3D, at least as AMD intends it, the Tweaker/main/OC page PBO as well as AMD OC PBO menu should be hidden upon BIOS recognizing a X3D being installed. Though, consistency across vendors in terms of hiding those menus is such a crapshow. MSI's A.50 BIOS remembers to hide CO, but not PBO...

I'm less sure about whether AMD CBS is always hidden as well, but the XFR Enhancement under CBS is not a Gigabyte exclusive, it's just there and has been there for a few AGESAs. You just don't normally notice it without a X3D because the Tweaker/main/OC PBO and AMD OC PBO are the go-to places.

On regular Zen 3 CPUs it seems for Asus and MSI at least that limits/scalar/override settings should be done on the Tweaker/main/OC page PBO menu, while CO offsets should be done in AMD OC's PBO. Even though all settings exist in both places, they don't always work equally in both places.
However, on X3D, all the PBO settings locations seem to function just fine, at least in relation to setting lower power limits. Which is fortunate.
Setting power limits using XFR Enhancement worked the same as PBO2 Tuner for me.

However, I ended up not using it and opting for a modded BIOS anyway, because for most optimized thermals one needs BOTH CO and limits, not one or the other. At the moment I'm setting things under main/OC page PBO like I would for any other CPU (actually, since MSI moved PBO out of AMD OC and to the main page, in lieu of a standalone main page PBO, I'm not sure if PBO is in that traditional location anymore)

There's even a lone PPT option under CBS>NBIO for some reason. It works, but being just PPT it's utterly useless. Anyway, AGESA sucks


----------



## th3illusiveman

MrGamer said:


> Hi, does anyone know why when I run R23 my clocks stay low (and my CPU package power), but when I apply -30 on all cores it starts boosting (although gets throttled by temps)
> 5800X3D
> ASUS Prim X570-P
> Latest BIOS
> DOCP Enabled
> Windows Balanced Power Plan
> 
> R23 Running (No PBO curve applied)
> View attachment 2576857
> 
> 
> R23 PBO -30 All Cores Applied
> View attachment 2576859
> 
> 
> Something very buggy is going on. It's like it's in ECO mode, but using PBO2 Tuner -30 All cores it starts boosting it. What does PBO2 Tuner even change on a Windows Level?
> edited to add: When doing single core boosts, it's hitting 4,550.3 on each core.


Might wanna reset the CMOS? seems like some bios setting is limiting your TDP w/o PBO...


----------



## Blameless

MrGamer said:


> DOCP Enabled


What happens when you disable DOCP?


----------



## thesebastian

I need to upgrade from 16GB to 32GB (B450 ITX motherboard, 2 slots only). Before pulling the trigger, would this ram be fine for the 5800X3D at 3600Mhz XMP? (It's not b-die nor anything fancy, but after browsing lot of more expensive models I picked this one). 
PVS432G360C8K - 132€


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Check your motherboards QVL list just in case. Im in the process of replacing RAM at the moment too. For what its worth, my CL18 3600 32GB kit was great on my previous CPU and the 5800X3D only migrated the latency penalty further.

I previously use to use Patriot memory in a workstation, quad channel setup and it lasted several years. Havent dabbled in Patriot recently so I can't assist further.


----------



## BCB57

tabascosauz said:


> On X3D, at least as AMD intends it, the Tweaker/main/OC page PBO as well as AMD OC PBO menu should be hidden upon BIOS recognizing a X3D being installed. Though, consistency across vendors in terms of hiding those menus is such a crapshow. MSI's A.50 BIOS remembers to hide CO, but not PBO...
> 
> I'm less sure about whether AMD CBS is always hidden as well, but the XFR Enhancement under CBS is not a Gigabyte exclusive, it's just there and has been there for a few AGESAs. You just don't normally notice it without a X3D because the Tweaker/main/OC PBO and AMD OC PBO are the go-to places.
> 
> On regular Zen 3 CPUs it seems for Asus and MSI at least that limits/scalar/override settings should be done on the Tweaker/main/OC page PBO menu, while CO offsets should be done in AMD OC's PBO. Even though all settings exist in both places, they don't always work equally in both places.
> However, on X3D, all the PBO settings locations seem to function just fine, at least in relation to setting lower power limits. Which is fortunate.
> Setting power limits using XFR Enhancement worked the same as PBO2 Tuner for me.
> 
> However, I ended up not using it and opting for a modded BIOS anyway, because for most optimized thermals one needs BOTH CO and limits, not one or the other. At the moment I'm setting things under main/OC page PBO like I would for any other CPU (actually, since MSI moved PBO out of AMD OC and to the main page, in lieu of a standalone main page PBO, I'm not sure if PBO is in that traditional location anymore)
> 
> There's even a lone PPT option under CBS>NBIO for some reason. It works, but being just PPT it's utterly useless. Anyway, AGESA sucks


I loaded Verangry's modded BIOS for the X570 Unify yesterday, and am very pleased with it so far. Successfully set per-core CO (-28 on my best cores, and -30 on the others) and power limits via PBO "manual" at 115 PPT / 80 TDC / 130 EDC.

CPU voltage-wise I have LLC Mode 6 (slightly more vdroop than auto) and minus 0.0500 offset, same as I used with MSI's stock AGESA 1.2.0.7 BIOS. I did not mess with scalar or boost frequency, as my understanding is that those options either do nothing or decrease performance. There was a new (to me) setting called "OPCache," which I tried with "auto" and "enabled" settings with no apparent difference.

With the above settings and nothing else, my system runs low 15,000's CB23 without stopping my normal background apps (AIDA64 sensor panel, NextCloud, FanControl, Sound Blaster Command, Defender) at a peak CPU temperature of 78C. That's about the same as before, using current stock BIOS with "Kombo Strike 3." Then I ran Time Spy, and immediately achieved my best score ever with current hardware:










That's no Kingpin-level accomplishment, but I'm particularly impressed with the rock-steady CPU frequency throughout the run. Previously there were always a couple of dips. Still need to run a few more benchmarks, but I do think Verangry's BIOS made an overall improvement.

One other note on this BIOS: The BLCK setting options make it appear as though CPU BLCK and PCIe BCLK can be adjusted independently! I do not think the X570 Unify motherboard can actually accomplish this feat... but I'm tempted to try it. Any thoughts?


----------



## Jabdah

Well, i thought a 3090 is a bit faster, im wondering cause my old 3070ti got 15046 points.










Sure that your system is running well ?

Edit: Just checked scores at 3dmark.com.. looks like im wrong! Your score is fine, my bad.


----------



## thesebastian

Slaughtahouse said:


> Check your motherboards QVL list just in case. Im in the process of replacing RAM at the moment too. For what its worth, my CL18 3600 32GB kit was great on my previous CPU and the 5800X3D only migrated the latency penalty further.
> 
> I previously use to use Patriot memory in a workstation, quad channel setup and it lasted several years. Havent dabbled in Patriot recently so I can't assist further.


Thanks for the comment. My motherboard (ASrock b450 itx) hasn't updated QVL since Zen 2 and 3600Mhz was less popular than today. So yeah it's pretty hard to know. So I ordered them, on Sunday will test them, I'll flip a coin and if they work will keep them otherwise will try different ones.
And at first I was aiming at 64GB but then I decided it was overkill.


----------



## BCB57

Jabdah said:


> Well, i thought a 3090 is a bit faster, im wondering cause my old 3070ti got 15046 points.
> 
> View attachment 2577036
> 
> 
> Sure that your system is running well ?
> 
> Edit: Just checked scores at 3dmark.com.. looks like im wrong! Your score is fine, my bad.


Thanks... you had me worried! There are plenty of faster 3090s though; mine is an ASUS TUF with two 8-pins, which limits its power consumption to around 385 watts overclocked. A card like the EVGA FTW3 Ultra with three 8-pins can draw close to 500 watts peak, which leaves me in the dust on benchmark scores. Not a big difference in gaming though.


----------



## mikalcarbine

What AGESA is everyone running? I'm on a MSI B550M Mag Mortar Wifi and just pulled trigger on an X3D which should be here Monday. I upgraded to the latest BIOS which has 1.2.0.7 but I'm reading that it generally performs worse than 1.2.0.6. I'm not sure if MSI has any of the offset or Kombo Strike features in their 1.2.0.6 versions.


----------



## reantum

BCB57 said:


> I loaded Verangry's modded BIOS for the X570 Unify yesterday, and am very pleased with it so far. Successfully set per-core CO (-28 on my best cores, and -30 on the others) and power limits via PBO "manual" at 115 PPT / 80 TDC / 130 EDC.
> 
> CPU voltage-wise I have LLC Mode 6 (slightly more vdroop than auto) and minus 0.0500 offset, same as I used with MSI's stock AGESA 1.2.0.7 BIOS. I did not mess with scalar or boost frequency, as my understanding is that those options either do nothing or decrease performance. There was a new (to me) setting called "OPCache," which I tried with "auto" and "enabled" settings with no apparent difference.
> 
> With the above settings and nothing else, my system runs low 15,000's CB23 without stopping my normal background apps (AIDA64 sensor panel, NextCloud, FanControl, Sound Blaster Command, Defender) at a peak CPU temperature of 78C. That's about the same as before, using current stock BIOS with "Kombo Strike 3." Then I ran Time Spy, and immediately achieved my best score ever with current hardware:
> 
> View attachment 2577023
> 
> 
> That's no Kingpin-level accomplishment, but I'm particularly impressed with the rock-steady CPU frequency throughout the run. Previously there were always a couple of dips. Still need to run a few more benchmarks, but I do think Verangry's BIOS made an overall improvement.
> 
> One other note on this BIOS: The BLCK setting options make it appear as though CPU BLCK and PCIe BCLK can be adjusted independently! I do not think the X570 Unify motherboard can actually accomplish this feat... but I'm tempted to try it. Any thoughts?


can you share with me that bios? cuz, i'm using x570 unify. I've question for you. I am playing valorant but suddenly recent days my fps dropped 100~200 fps down, what should i do?


----------



## tabascosauz

reantum said:


> can you share with me that bios? cuz, i'm using x570 unify. I've question for you. I am playing valorant but suddenly recent days my fps dropped 100~200 fps down, what should i do?











5800X3D Owners


This means the board is modestly under reporting CPU power consumption, which will have very similar effects to increasing power limits. Reducing power limits might allow higher or longer opportunistic boosting, depending on workload. Also, it's highly unlikely that -50 CO is actually taking...




www.overclock.net


----------



## BCB57

reantum said:


> can you share with me that bios? cuz, i'm using x570 unify. I've question for you. I am playing valorant but suddenly recent days my fps dropped 100~200 fps down, what should i do?


See post #1672 on July 8th.
As far as your other question, I have no idea except it's probably a GPU or video driver issue.


----------



## evilhf

2080tiproprietário said:


> Como é possível ir a 106,6 mhz no relógio do ônibus? com minha mira VIII Dark hero não é possível passar de 100,25 mhz kkkk
> [/CITAR]
> usando apenas m2 de armazenamento.
> sem sata


----------



## Taraquin

There are rumurs of an upcoming AGESA with more unlocked tuning for 5800X3D, anyone heard about this? Would be awesome if we got the same tuning with pbo etc like other Zen3, but that they kept a hard 1 35V cap, which is still in line with running +200 pbp and -30CO. Getting that extra 4-5% perf in single core, bios-level CO (like MSI has) and PPT/TDC/EDC limits etc would be awesome


----------



## bloot

Taraquin said:


> There are rumurs of an upcoming AGESA with more unlocked tuning for 5800X3D, anyone heard about this? Would be awesome if we got the same tuning with pbo etc like other Zen3, but that they kept a hard 1 35V cap, which is still in line with running +200 pbp and -30CO. Getting that extra 4-5% perf in single core, bios-level CO (like MSI has) and PPT/TDC/EDC limits etc would be awesome


Where did you read/hear it?


----------



## Taraquin

bloot said:


> Where did you read/hear it?


Can't find the link, will try to find it again.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Taraquin said:


> Can't find the link, will try to find it again.


Honestly, doubt this would happen... AMD is desparate to sell their AM5 platform, why allow AM4 to get even better. I don't even think they need to encourage people to buy the 5800X3D, most people are upgrading to it anyways cause new platform costs are insane.


----------



## StevieRay2

Yeah I doubt we will get full OCing, we haven't gotten anything yet except for some vendors that went against AMD like MSI with the Kombo Strike etc


----------



## Owterspace

At 143w PPT 5800X3D is insane to cool. I really doubt they will allow overclocking.


----------



## Blameless

Owterspace said:


> At 143w PPT 5800X3D is insane to cool. I really doubt they will allow overclocking.


I just use the LCLK bug to get an extra ~10C of headroom. Even sustained 100C isn't likely to do any harm at under 1.1v.

That said, if they did unlock it, it would be good motivation for a delid.


----------



## icehotshot

Owterspace said:


> At 143w PPT 5800X3D is insane to cool. I really doubt they will allow overclocking.


How does one get their 5800x3d to pull 143w?

Mine maxes out about 109w @ 64c. I can't get it to pull any more wattage.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

icehotshot said:


> How does one get their 5800x3d to pull 143w?
> 
> Mine maxes out about 109w @ 64c. I can't get it to pull any more wattage.


I can get up to approx. 130w package power using -15 offset in Cinebench R20.

_Max All Core Clocks -> 4.45 GHz_
_Max CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) -> 1.250V_
_Max CPU Package Power (SVI2 TFN) -> 127.9W_
_Max CPU Die (Average) -> 77.5C_
_CB 20 Score - 5813_


----------



## icehotshot

Slaughtahouse said:


> I can get up to approx. 130w package power using -15 offset in Cinebench R20.
> 
> _Max All Core Clocks -> 4.45 GHz_
> _Max CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) -> 1.250V_
> _Max CPU Package Power (SVI2 TFN) -> 127.9W_
> _Max CPU Die (Average) -> 77.5C_
> _CB 20 Score - 5813_


That's using the curve optimizer, right? I've searched around this thread and I'm still lost on how to do that. The curve optimizer seemed to disappear from my bios when I put my 5800x3d in.

I have the latest F36d bios for my Gigabyte X570 Aorus Pro Wifi.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

icehotshot said:


> That's using the curve optimizer, right? I've searched around this thread and I'm still lost on how to do that. The curve optimizer seemed to disappear from my bios when I put my 5800x3d in.
> 
> I have the latest F36d bios for my Gigabyte X570 Aorus Pro Wifi.


Yes, Curve Optimizer (CO). It's not accessible in any standard BIOS. All BIOS is set to default, you may play with LLC or other basic features. However, overclocking features are disabled. You can use the tool shared on the first page at your discretion to enable CO within Windows. Edit*









5800X3D Owners


Scroll Down For Gaming Results If Not Interested In Details TLDR: 5800X3D is a monster at gaming, is easily OCd, and runs hot and beats even a tuned 5950x in most games; for general computing the 5800x, and more importantly now, the 5700x trounce it when OCd as well but cannot match it in...




www.overclock.net


----------



## icehotshot

Slaughtahouse said:


> Yes, Curve Optimizer (CO). It's not accessible in any standard BIOS. All BIOS is set to default, you may play with LLC or other basic features. However, overclocking features are disabled. You can use the tool shared on the first page at your discretion to enable CO within Windows. Edit*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5800X3D Owners
> 
> 
> Scroll Down For Gaming Results If Not Interested In Details TLDR: 5800X3D is a monster at gaming, is easily OCd, and runs hot and beats even a tuned 5950x in most games; for general computing the 5800x, and more importantly now, the 5700x trounce it when OCd as well but cannot match it in...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Cool, I'll have to check it out, thanks!


----------



## MrGamer

th3illusiveman said:


> ight wanna reset the CMOS? seems like some bios setting is limiting your TDP w/o PBO


Here's the nutty thing, I've just changed my motherboard to an ASUS Prime X570 and having the _exact _same issue.



StevieRay2 said:


> If you're hitting those temps with -30CO in R23, you probably need a better cooling solution


Well I've got a DeepCool AK620 ZERO DARK, which should be ample enough. My old 3700X never used to go over 65c under heavy load, now I know the 5800X3D is going to run hotter, but 25c hotter? I can't see how. Somethings wrong.


----------



## kaiserc

Taraquin said:


> Can't find the link, will try to find it again.


Interested in this.
If you think about it zen4x3d is coming Q1. They could release those along with a new tool to tune both x3d parts. That makes sense.

My MSI B550 Unify is coming tomorrow got it for a £100. bargain.


----------



## Owterspace

No offsets, stock settings except for 1933 1:1.

Run the 10GB load in Linpack Xtreme you will see full power limits. R23 got nuthin on Linpack lol..

Edit:

Under that load my X3D runs at 4250MHz


----------



## Blameless

icehotshot said:


> How does one get their 5800x3d to pull 143w?
> 
> Mine maxes out about 109w @ 64c. I can't get it to pull any more wattage.


y-cruncher gets to ~140w on both of mine.


----------



## frankie90

Attached are my best results for my 5800x3D and my new to me, used 3090 Ti. I'm happy with my Time Spy score, but I can not break 15K on Cinebench, no matter what setting I change in the BIOS. My max CPU temp that run was 72c, so it shouldn't be a temp issue. Not sure what it is at this point, other than suspecting something wrong with my Windows install, or Windows 11 itself.


----------



## Imprezzion

frankie90 said:


> Attached are my best results for my 5800x3D and my new to me, used 3090 Ti. I'm happy with my Time Spy score, but I can not break 15K on Cinebench, no matter what setting I change in the BIOS. My max CPU temp that run was 72c, so it shouldn't be a temp issue. Not sure what it is at this point, other than suspecting something wrong with my Windows install, or Windows 11 itself.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2577288
> 
> View attachment 2577287


What's your RAM clocked at? It might just make the difference. 

I wish I could find a good used MSI X570(S) or B550 board used but options are quite limited lol. B550 Tomahawk for €120 or a X570 Pro Carbon for €150 are the only available options locally... Maybe i'll put in a low-ball offer on the X570 Pro Carbon.. it has a broken PCI-E latch and a few cosmetic dings so maybe I can get it cheap..


----------



## StevieRay2

Imprezzion said:


> What's your RAM clocked at? It might just make the difference.
> 
> I wish I could find a good used MSI X570(S) or B550 board used but options are quite limited lol. B550 Tomahawk for €120 or a X570 Pro Carbon for €150 are the only available options locally... Maybe i'll put in a low-ball offer on the X570 Pro Carbon.. it has a broken PCI-E latch and a few cosmetic dings so maybe I can get it cheap..


B550 Tomahawk is way more than enough for this CPU, unless you need more features that a x570 has


----------



## frankie90

I'm currently running at 1900/3800, which is as high as the IF is stable on my CPU. Here's a screenshot of my ZenTimings. I'll admit, I am _no _expert on overclocking RAM and RAM timings. I did some research, changed the timings I thought were most important, stability tested, and this is where I ended up. If anyone has any suggestions why I can't crack 15k or anything sticks out with the ZenTimings screenshot, let me know!


----------



## ilmazzo

Quick recap at where I'm now....



seems decent for 3-4 hours of testing....I had to increase vddr to 1.47 from 1.45 because hunt showdown would crash after some runs...and increased a little bit even vddp vddg....nothing extreme of course...and I don't know when stop pushing and try decrease voltages to optimize them...


----------



## ilmazzo

frankie90 said:


> I'm currently running at 1900/3800, which is as high as the IF is stable on my CPU. Here's a screenshot of my ZenTimings. I'll admit, I am _no _expert on overclocking RAM and RAM timings. I did some research, changed the timings I thought were most important, stability tested, and this is where I ended up. If anyone has any suggestions why I can't crack 15k or anything sticks out with the ZenTimings screenshot, let me know!
> 
> View attachment 2577302


whoa...you are lot tighter than mine setup....quite nice for a 2x16gb kit....the empedance settings are a lot different than mine...I guess some is due to the dr nature of your kit (i suppose)...did it improve stability or you copied only settings from someone else? cheers gg


----------



## frankie90

ilmazzo said:


> whoa...you are lot tighter than mine setup....quite nice for a 2x16gb kit....the empedance settings are a lot different than mine...I guess some is due to the dr nature of your kit (i suppose)...did it improve stability or you copied only settings from someone else? cheers gg


As far as timings go, I started out by copying someone else’s 3800 timings when I was doing research on this last year. I wound up being able to tighten some, while loosening others that weren’t stable on my system (like tRFC), and ended up where I’m at. As far as the impedance settings, I have no idea how those got set where they are. They were either auto selected by my board, or XMP (or whatever it’s called for AMD LOL).

I should note I’m on AGESA 1.0.0.6 as at the beginning of setting this up, I found that gave me a higher score than .7. I’m wondering if I should try giving the newer BIOS a go again.


----------



## BCB57

Our CPU continues to glean favorable comments during Ryzen 4 and Intel 13th Gen reviews:









Hardware Unboxed: "If you're looking at building a new, high end gaming PC today, and want to save as much money as possible, I still feel that the 5800X3D is the best bet."


----------



## foook92

Hello guys!
This cpu is just a beast, love it!
I'm having some fun with my rams (Ballistix edie 3600mhz cl16, 4x8gb) on my C6H.















These are my timings now, and they're fully stable (9 hours of Anta777 extreme on Tm5 plus 10 hours usmus v3), can I improve something else? 3800 won't even boot for me (even at stock ram speed) at 1933fclk I can boot, but pc go crazy, slow as hell (3/4 seconds for take a click) with continuous usb disconnections, metallic audio etc. So i'm just trying to maximize my 1866/3733 oc. Thanks!

P.s. softwares like SignalRgb (even with turned off leds) or similars, eat up like 2/3ns on Aida64! I keep them closed during benchs.


----------



## Blameless

frankie90 said:


> I'm currently running at 1900/3800, which is as high as the IF is stable on my CPU. Here's a screenshot of my ZenTimings. I'll admit, I am _no _expert on overclocking RAM and RAM timings. I did some research, changed the timings I thought were most important, stability tested, and this is where I ended up. If anyone has any suggestions why I can't crack 15k or anything sticks out with the ZenTimings screenshot, let me know!
> 
> View attachment 2577302


I marked what could possibly be too high with a red dot and what is possibly too low with a blue one. ProcODT is also probably too high:









SCLs tighter than 4 tend to regress in performance in some tasks, but not all.

Anyway, none of this is responsible for not cracking 15k in Cinebench, as Cinebench is highly memory invariant. If you are falling short in R23, your temps are too high, your COs not tuned, or you are running too much in the background.


----------



## frankie90

Blameless said:


> I marked what could possibly be too high with a red dot and what is possibly too low with a blue one. ProcODT is also probably too high:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SCLs tighter than 4 tend to regress in performance in some tasks, but not all.
> 
> Anyway, none of this is responsible for not cracking 15k in Cinebench, as Cinebench is highly memory invariant. If you are falling short in R23, your temps are too high, your COs not tuned, or you are running too much in the background.


Amazing, thanks for this! I will play around with this tomorrow night.

Right, I figured timings were not going to be an issue with Cinebench. I don’t think it’s a temp issue as the max on that run I posted before was 72c, with much of the run below 70c. I’ve messed around with CO so much I don’t see how I could have missed anything, but I did settle with -30 all core, so maybe I have to try again.

I’m leaning toward it being a Windows issue, probably with my setup and something running in the background. A fresh install might be in my near future to confirm.


----------



## Blameless

Some testing with my more recent sample:

































This week 32 sample is very similar to my earlier week 9 sample, but has lower peak core voltages, a lower per-core voltage differential, and seems to need even less vSoC and vDDG. All this translates into 100-200MHz higher boost clocks (the earlier sample stayed around 4375MHz in BKT), with the same cooling (Noctua NH-A12U, single fan; both CPU and cooler lapped, in a Lian-Li TU-150 at ~25C ambients), under more extreme loads. Both CPUs did 4.45GHz all-core, with ease, at moderate loads.

I'm currently forcing timer serialization disabled, which has a side effect of slightly hurting peak per-core boost clocks...they are 1-2MHz higher with this disabled.

Note, none of this was done in safe mode. This is my daily Server 2022 install; it's quite lean, but fully functional.


----------



## bloot

Micron B-die single rank here


----------



## AXi0M

4x8 B-Die @3866cl16 one set A0 pcb and the other A2 pcb for extra overclocking fun


----------



## StevieRay2

Not sure now if I should just get DDR4-3600MHz, CL16-19-19-39 Timing and push them to 3800mhz or slightly better timings or pay double and get some b-die for this CPU...


----------



## AXi0M

StevieRay2 said:


> Not sure now if I should just get DDR4-3600MHz, CL16-19-19-39 Timing and push them to 3800mhz or slightly better timings or pay double and get some b-die for this CPU...


Bandwidth is more important on the X3D than latency, you don't need b-die to get 3800MT/s. i'd take 3800cl16 over 3600cl 14 anyday


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> Not sure now if I should just get DDR4-3600MHz, CL16-19-19-39 Timing and push them to 3800mhz or slightly better timings or pay double and get some b-die for this CPU...


For the overwhelming majority of uses, increasing memory performance is not going to help the 5800X3D enough to be worth spending more. The only reason I even have a decently binned B-die kit is because I bought it before there was a 5800X3D.

I mean, it helps, but only about a third as much as it did with my 5800X.


----------



## moejustin86

I really wish the would unlock the multiplayer on this CPU. They can keep the 1.3 volt lock I don't care I just fully believe mine would do 4.7 all day. I fully believe they seen in early testing the 7000 series was not going to beat this in most games. The real 7000 series is with 7000x3d if they can keep clock speeds up these normal 7000 series chips will be worthless to anyone that games.


----------



## Brocky

New to Ram / Memory overclocking but I cant do 3800mhz, even everything on Auto, with XMP profile and changing FCLK and Frequency, it just doesn't boot.

Using:

-- MSI B550 Gaming Plus
-- ADATA XPG Spectrix D60G RGB LED 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200MHz (PC4-25600

Not the best RAM and MOBO


----------



## Slaughtahouse

I’m honestly surprised so many users here are putting in this level of effort into RAM tuning for a CPU that significantly mitigates the latency penalty.


----------



## serialtoon

Anyone have suggestions on how to get this processor running on an X570 Aorus Master? The last bios F36f for my board is crash city. Ive done a ton of research as of late and my 5800x3d is sitting on my desk, sealed unused due to the **** bios support from Gigabyte on the matter. Currently running a 3900x which has been rock solid since launch on F33 BIOS but upgrading one of my BIOS to F36f is a complete mess. 

Ive done all the basic troubleshooting step such as

-Reset BIOS settings to default post update
-Reflashed BIOS via @BIOS and Q-Flash, same issues
-Reseated all my hardware except the CPU (3900x)

Im at my wits end with this and ended up going back to F35 bios and it runs my 3900x perfectly. Gigabyte states the latest bios (F36f) is providing more compatibility to the 5800X3D.


----------



## AXi0M

Slaughtahouse said:


> I’m honestly surprised so many users here are putting in this level of effort into RAM tuning for a CPU that significantly mitigates the latency penalty.


what else am i gonna do with the 32GB of B-die from my previous R5 3600 build? leave it at XMP? That's crazy talk XD


----------



## Slaughtahouse

AXi0M said:


> what else am i gonna do with the 32GB of B-die from my previous R5 3600 build? leave it at XMP? That's crazy talk XD


I know… its OCN. I expected the reaction equivalent to… “SHES A WITCH!”


----------



## Slaughtahouse

serialtoon said:


> Anyone have suggestions on how to get this processor running on an X570 Aorus Master? The last bios F36f for my board is crash city. Ive done a ton of research as of late and my 5800x3d is sitting on my desk, sealed unused due to the **** bios support from Gigabyte on the matter. Currently running a 3900x which has been rock solid since launch on F33 BIOS but upgrading one of my BIOS to F36f is a complete mess.
> 
> Ive done all the basic troubleshooting step such as
> 
> -Reset BIOS settings to default post update
> -Reflashed BIOS via @BIOS and Q-Flash, same issues
> -Reseated all my hardware except the CPU (3900x)
> 
> Im at my wits end with this and ended up going back to F35 bios and it runs my 3900x perfectly. Gigabyte states the latest bios (F36f) is providing more compatibility to the 5800X3D.


Have you tried F36a (1.2.0.6.B). Also, make sure you're downloading the right BIOS for your windows version. I once accidently flash on my Gigabyte board a Windows 11 version (the option by default) on Windows 10. Didn't go well... XD

Edit: To clarify, I was trying to use their windows tool, @ BIOS.


----------



## serialtoon

Slaughtahouse said:


> Have you tried F36a (1.2.0.6.B). Also, make sure you're downloading the right BIOS for your windows version. I once accidently flash on my Gigabyte board a Windows 11 version (the option by default) on Windows 10. Didn't go well... XD
> 
> Edit: To clarify, I was trying to use their windows tool, @ BIOS.


There is no F36a on their site. Ive also tried changing the file name on the URL to include "a" instead of "f" to no avail. I did try all the F36 variants they offer and they are all crashing and BSODing.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Sorry, I meant F36c.

Have you tried resetting to optimize defaults? What about just removing all drives? Cleaing CMOS?

When I swapped from my 3800X to 5800X3D, I was already on this beta BIOS 1.2.0.6b and the first thing that came up was some sort of reset of security keys. Took a while to post.


----------



## thesebastian

Slaughtahouse said:


> Check your motherboards QVL list just in case. Im in the process of replacing RAM at the moment too. For what its worth, my CL18 3600 32GB kit was great on my previous CPU and the 5800X3D only migrated the latency penalty further.
> 
> I previously use to use Patriot memory in a workstation, quad channel setup and it lasted several years. Havent dabbled in Patriot recently so I can't assist further.


Today I received these Patriot Steel 2x16GB sticks that I was talking about. I haven't tested much yet, except:

XMP 3600 at 1.35v DRAM voltage -> P95 Large FTTs failing in less than 5 minutes.
XMP 3600 at 1.4v -> I executed same test for 1 hour and a half without errors. So I'll stay with 1.4v (huge stability difference).










Now I'm testing a bit different SoC voltage values:










Thaiphoon and CPU-Z info:









I think I'm gonna keep them. I mean, I thought they were not going to "XMP boot" (bsed on 50% of amazon reviews) and they surprised me and I just had to raise the DRAM voltage a little bit (so far).


----------



## umea

just got my 5800x3d today (second hand). i have an fclk hole at 1900fclk unfortunately. however, while 2000fclk for example spits out wheas, the frequency of whea is not nearly as high as my 5900x which would spit out 1k within a minute or just outright blue screen/crash. im sitting at ~500 after 20 minutes while also running FFT for 5 mins (until it spat an error and stopped).

is high fclk still entirely up to luck? i remember a couple of people such domdtxdissar got 2000fclk on both their 5950x and 5800x3d, not sure if there's some secret here 

worst case i can obviously settle for 3733 and see what i can manage there with tightening.

also any input on perf difference between SR and DR with this cpu?

running 5800x3d, asrock b550 phantom ITX, and have 4 different sets of bdie to choose from/mess with (3 DR kits: 4266cl17, 2x of 3200cl14, and one SR kit, 4400CL19 viper steel).

thanks 

edit: forgot i can sort by user. will be reading through the thread in the meantime


----------



## Axon14

I see fclk and I think...of another word.


----------



## Blameless

Slaughtahouse said:


> I’m honestly surprised so many users here are putting in this level of effort into RAM tuning for a CPU that significantly mitigates the latency penalty.


If I were building a new 5800X3D setup from scratch, it would probably have $40 memory, but I'd still tune it to the point that the difference between unconditional stability and unstable was one clock in virtually any timing (other than tRAS and tRC, which are windows, and tRFC which needs at least a tiny bit of margin to account for thermal excursions and training issues).

No point in leaving anything on the table.



umea said:


> is high fclk still entirely up to luck? i remember a couple of people such domdtxdissar got 2000fclk on both their 5950x and 5800x3d, not sure if there's some secret here


Using the right CPU VTT/1.8v, plus sufficient vSoC and VDDG can sometimes stabilize borderline FCLK, but it's mostly down to luck of the draw.

Both of my 5800X3D samples have been entirely stable at 1900 FCLK with low voltage (1.75 VTT, ~1.025 vSoC, and ~900/950mV VDDG CCD/IOD), but no amount of tuning allowed either to be fully stable past that.



umea said:


> also any input on perf difference between SR and DR with this cpu?


I can bench the difference, but it's quite small in any actual app, just like most individual memory parameter on these parts. All other things being equal, you still want dual-rank, especially on a board that only has two DIMM slots, unless you're sure you can make due with only 16GiB of RAM.


----------



## umea

Blameless said:


> If I were building a new 5800X3D setup from scratch, it would probably have $40 memory, but I'd still tune it to the point that the difference between unconditional stability and unstable was one clock in virtually any timing (other than tRAS and tRC, which are windows, and tRFC which needs at least a tiny bit of margin to account for thermal excursions and training issues).
> 
> No point in leaving anything on the table.
> 
> 
> 
> Using the right CPU VTT/1.8v, plus sufficient vSoC and VDDG can sometimes stabilize borderline FCLK, but it's mostly down to luck of the draw.
> 
> Both of my 5800X3D samples have been entirely stable at 1900 FCLK with low voltage (1.75 VTT, ~1.025 vSoC, and ~900/950mV VDDG CCD/IOD), but no amount of tuning allowed either to be fully stable past that.
> 
> 
> 
> I can bench the difference, but it's quite small in any actual app, just like most individual memory parameter on these parts. All other things being equal, you still want dual-rank, especially on a board that only has two DIMM slots, unless you're sure you can make due with only 16GiB of RAM.


i appreciate your reply a lot!

i messed around with stuff for a bit and used veii's bios settings as a reference point for some things (and googled abt other stuff). while i do get wheas, the frequency of them is way lower than my 5900x. im talking like 2000 after 20min of OCCT. anything above 1900FCLK on my 5900x would spit thousands of errors a second and blue screen pretty much whenever i ran anything heavy on the CPU.

i'll have to sit down and bench it to see if i see performance regression, but right now i'm just seeing how high i can boot/post. also another interesting note, my cursed 4266cl17 DR kit might able to run 3733 CL14-14-14-14. my 5900x could not run tRCDRD 14 no matter how much tweaking i tried, so i eventually settled for tRCDRD 15 at 3800. if my adventures above 2000fclk bare no fruit, i'll jump back to that and tighten that.

i can make do with 16gb as this will be my gaming build purely and none of the games i play use a lot of ram at all (but are freq/timing heavy, mostly stuff like OW/Valorant). i know that this cpu though mostly eliminates any need for good ram lol. i was jut curious if there was still any benefit to running DR for my use case, i'll just bench the differences and see if i lose any perf dropping to SR.

either way, i appreciate the help. also any idea why it doesn't seem like my chip is boosting at all? seems to be stuck at 3400mhz. i seem to be on a bios version that should support the chip (it removes options in my bios that are locked like pbo and stuff), but maybe i need to go newer?

also any thoughts on changing CPU freq and VID? (aka all core static oc i guess?)

i used this on my 5900x a little bit. not sure if this is the way to go..


----------



## Blameless

umea said:


> either way, i appreciate the help. also any idea why it doesn't seem like my chip is boosting at all? seems to be stuck at 3400mhz. i seem to be on a bios version that should support the chip (it removes options in my bios that are locked like pbo and stuff), but maybe i need to go newer?


What firmware version are you using? Being stuck at 3400 (outside of the UEFI itself, which will always show 3400) is a sign that it's so old it's AGESA doesn't correctly recognize the part. If you didn't clear your settings, or loaded a profile you made with your 5900X, that could also cause issues.

I've attached the firmware I'm using on my ASRock B550 Phantom Gaming ITX/ax. It's v2.32, which is the same as the publicly available 2.31, except that x2apic actually works. Just remove the .pdf and extract it.

Still some annoying bugs in this version, but NVRAM edits and a hex editor on profiles saved to USB will get around them.


----------



## umea

Blameless said:


> What firmware version are you using? Being stuck at 3400 (outside of the UEFI itself, which will always show 3400) is a sign that it's so old it's AGESA doesn't correctly recognize the part. If you didn't clear your settings, or loaded a profile you made with your 5900X, that could also cause issues.
> 
> I've attached the firmware I'm using on my ASRock B550 Phantom Gaming ITX/ax. It's v2.32, which is the same as the publicly available 2.31, except that x2apic actually works. Just remove the .pdf and extract it.
> 
> Still some annoying bugs in this version, but NVRAM edits and a hex editor on profiles saved to USB will get around them.


gotcha. im on 2.10, so i guess thats prob why















edit: you were right, that fixed it  thanks! 

also i was using OCCT just in general and FFT on y-cruncher to try to crash/test stability. any other suggestions maybe?

edit2: such a stark difference in behavior between this and my 5900. 5900 would spit thousands immediately over 1900 (and also blue screen or crash). im running y cruncher fft now for 40 min (gonna let it run its course) ran OCCT for an hour. cant make it crash. 


will do a lot more testing to see if theres fabric dropouts, performance regression, usb problems, etc. so far though seems very very good. im getting wheas (cant seem to get rid of them) though it seems to be stable (?) besides that so far? 

idk if this is normal behavior for the chip, normal being can run high fclks just get wheas at a steady pace but cant crash or cause blue screen or anything 🤔


----------



## Slaughtahouse

thesebastian said:


> Today I received these Patriot Steel 2x16GB sticks that I was talking about. I haven't tested much yet, except:
> 
> XMP 3600 at 1.35v DRAM voltage -> P95 Large FTTs failing in less than 5 minutes.
> XMP 3600 at 1.4v -> I executed same test for 1 hour and a half without errors. So I'll stay with 1.4v (huge stability difference).
> 
> 
> Now I'm testing a bit different SoC voltage values:
> 
> Thaiphoon and CPU-Z info:
> 
> 
> I think I'm gonna keep them. I mean, I thought they were not going to "XMP boot" (bsed on 50% of amazon reviews) and they surprised me and I just had to raise the DRAM voltage a little bit (so far).


I remember. I also just bought a cheap kit of ram to replace my other cheap kit of ram. 32GB 3600 CL18-22-22-42. Basically any RAM snob would call them trash but I put them on 1900 IF / 3800 Mhz and they run no problem. 

My gigabyte board always reports ~1.4v on auto with XMP. I discussed this with another user here a while ago who reported the same results. Not sure if its a reporting error or if actually drawing 1.4v but seems to be stable.



https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/VENGEANCE-LPX/p/CMK32GX4M2D3600C18



















Haven't had time to bench it in a game but works pretty straight forward. Wonder if I can hit 2000 IF / 4000Mhz...


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Blameless said:


> If I were building a new 5800X3D setup from scratch, it would probably have $40 memory, but I'd still tune it to the point that the difference between unconditional stability and unstable was one clock in virtually any timing (other than tRAS and tRC, which are windows, and tRFC which needs at least a tiny bit of margin to account for thermal excursions and training issues).
> 
> No point in leaving anything on the table.


Depends on what's on the table and how much time and effort it took to get there.

Maybe I have poor experience with RAM tweaking or I am simply not skilled for it. I've played with it before and trying to get above standard recommendation from Eurogamer for 3200 / CL16 seems lack luster in terms of gains in typical game scenarios: Testing 4000MHz RAM: games

I know reco's in the past here for Zen 2 were 3600 / CL16 or 3200 / CL14 (Samsung B-die) but the cost increase for such kits little sense in my view. As they were about 50% cost premiums on 32gb kits.

It’s also worth noting if maybe I had spent more on RAM initially I wouldn’t have to replace that kit but… I’ll chalk down that kits failure to a simple hardware failure. Maybe excess auto voltage ? 

Now with the 5800X3D, I'm fairly confident that effort is diminished further for users like me. Who knows, maybe I'll change my mind, get board, and start tweaking... but resetting CMOS on mini-ITX after not posting on unstable timings is quite annoying...


----------



## icehotshot

serialtoon said:


> Anyone have suggestions on how to get this processor running on an X570 Aorus Master? The last bios F36f for my board is crash city. Ive done a ton of research as of late and my 5800x3d is sitting on my desk, sealed unused due to the **** bios support from Gigabyte on the matter. Currently running a 3900x which has been rock solid since launch on F33 BIOS but upgrading one of my BIOS to F36f is a complete mess.
> 
> Ive done all the basic troubleshooting step such as
> 
> -Reset BIOS settings to default post update
> -Reflashed BIOS via @BIOS and Q-Flash, same issues
> -Reseated all my hardware except the CPU (3900x)
> 
> Im at my wits end with this and ended up going back to F35 bios and it runs my 3900x perfectly. Gigabyte states the latest bios (F36f) is providing more compatibility to the 5800X3D.


Have you tried enabling ln2 mode? Made mine stable.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

serialtoon said:


> There is no F36a on their site. Ive also tried changing the file name on the URL to include "a" instead of "f" to no avail. I did try all the F36 variants they offer and they are all crashing and BSODing.


Worth noting… are you downloading BIOSs for the correct version of your Gigabyte board? Version 1.0 or Version 1.1 / 1.2?

It may be annoying that I don’t have an answer but just trying to run down the troubleshooting before we assume it’s a hardware issue.

What BSODs are you getting? Seems like you’re at least able to post with these new BIOSs. Could be another issue that is triggered by this update.


----------



## StevieRay2

Are you able to test your max fclk on your CPU just by raising the fclk to see what your max is without raising the rams mhz? If possible I'd figure I do that to see if my CPU can do 1900 before getting ram that can do that but I'm guessing it's a no


----------



## Blameless

umea said:


> idk if this is normal behavior for the chip, normal being can run high fclks just get wheas at a steady pace but cant crash or cause blue screen or anything 🤔


This is pretty typical for single CCD parts in general. You'll get increasing WHEA spam as you increase FCLK beyond what's truly stable, but outright crashes are uncommon until fairly extreme values.



Slaughtahouse said:


> Depends on what's on the table and how much time and effort it took to get there.


The process is much of it's own reward, for me.



Slaughtahouse said:


> Maybe I have poor experience with RAM tweaking or I am simply not skilled for it. I've played with it before and trying to get above standard recommendation from Eurogamer for 3200 / CL16 seems lack luster in terms of gains in typical game scenarios: Testing 4000MHz RAM: games


This review doesn't even look at the timings where much of the gains are likely to come from, which is a common problem. Trying to extrapolate what I'll get out of my tuning vs. what most reviewers are getting out of far less comprehensive, and usually poorly documented tuning, is not easy.



Slaughtahouse said:


> I know reco's in the past here for Zen 2 were 3600 / CL16 or 3200 / CL14 (Samsung B-die) but the cost increase for such kits little sense in my view. As they were about 50% cost premiums on 32gb kits.


You can tune anything. Spending more on memory is usually a way to bypass some degree of that. Sometimes I do spend extra on pre-binned memory, if I have some particular performance floor in mind and want to ensure I reach it, but the biggest gains, proportionally speaking, come from cheap memory that was never sorted.



Slaughtahouse said:


> Maybe excess auto voltage ?


Another reason why I hand tune things.



Slaughtahouse said:


> Now with the 5800X3D, I'm fairly confident that effort is diminished further for users like me. Who knows, maybe I'll change my mind, get board, and start tweaking... but resetting CMOS on mini-ITX after not posting on unstable timings is quite annoying...


The large cache definitely diminishes the gains from improving main memory performance.

As for resetting bad settings, you can get power switches you can just connect to a jumper then put somewhere convienent. They cost about 25 cents each, in bulk, or a dollar in small quantities. I bought a big bag of these for ~$10:









If the system is in a case that has one, you can just attach the reset switch to the CMOS jumper, then put a piece of tape or something over it so it can't be hit accidentally.

Problem with the firmware on my current board is that it doesn't save profiles properly, and I have a lot of settings that don't have any entries in the UEFI setup at all, so restoring settings can be a bit tedious (load profile from USB, manually change a few settings it doesn't save that do exist in the UEFI, boot to Windows, restore my NVRAM mods via commandline tool, reboot).


----------



## spcysls

I noticed that using fabric speeds above 1900, even if you set all the right voltages and are whea free, and test using heavy cache based benchmarks, it can have a large negative impact on 0.1% lows in some games even though they show benefits in synthetic workloads like 3dmark tests. Once you have minimized tertiary timings, and gotten close to 1900 fabric there is not much point going higher.


----------



## Taraquin

Blameless said:


> For the overwhelming majority of uses, increasing memory performance is not going to help the 5800X3D enough to be worth spending more. The only reason I even have a decently binned B-die kit is because I bought it before there was a 5800X3D.
> 
> I mean, it helps, but only about a third as much as it did with my 5800X.


In a few games memory tuning can yield 10-20% even on Zen3 3D, but in the majority of cases it's 2-5%.


----------



## mcagricetinkaya

Hello there . I want to ask you something, I saw the thread you opened in the forum. I just bought a ryzen 7 5800x3D. but i am confused about bios settings. I made the settings you mentioned, and now everything is fine and stable. but I don't know if I should turn on core performance boost, it makes unnecessary heating and noise. Can you enlighten me on this matter please.


----------



## AXi0M

mcagricetinkaya said:


> Hello there . I want to ask you something, I saw the thread you opened in the forum. I just bought a ryzen 7 5800x3D. but i am confused about bios settings. I made the settings you mentioned, and now everything is fine and stable. but I don't know if I should turn on core performance boost, it makes unnecessary heating and noise. Can you enlighten me on this matter please.


turning off "core Performance Boost" will disable all boosting and the cpu will stay at 3.4Ghz


----------



## mcagricetinkaya

AXi0M said:


> "çekirdek Performans Artışı"nı kapatmak, tüm yükseltmeyi devre dışı bırakır ve işlemci 3.4 Ghz'de kalır
> [/ALINTI]
> Çekirdek performans artırmayı açtığımda işlemci sıcaklığı çok yükseliyor ve dengesizleşiyor, sıvı soğutmam var ne yapmalıyım?


----------



## Jabdah

isn`t english the fav. lang in here ?


----------



## loki_toki

anyone tried the new ASRock bios?


----------



## Blameless

loki_toki said:


> anyone tried the new ASRock bios?


I just tried 2.40 on my B550 Phantom Gaming-ITX/ax and it appears identical to 2.32 in every outward way. Exposed settings and NVRAM enumeration was identical; loading my saved 2.32 profiles worked without any issue.

Can't comment on the RTX 4000 series fixes, as I don't have one, yet.


----------



## StevieRay2

Are you able to see what flck your CPU can handle without testing the RAM? or does the RAM have to match the flck to see the limits?
example: Trying 1900 2000 etc flck also adjusting soc but keeping ram at 3200mhz?


----------



## AXi0M

StevieRay2 said:


> Are you able to see what flck your CPU can handle without testing the RAM? or does the RAM have to match the flck to see the limits?
> example: Trying 1900 2000 etc flck also adjusting soc but keeping ram at 3200mhz?


probably best to check with both, no need for 2000Fclk if you ram can't also do 4000MT/s.


----------



## StevieRay2

AXi0M said:


> probably best to check with both, no need for 2000Fclk if you ram can't also do 4000MT/s.


Yeah I don't have the ram yet just would be nice to see what fclk my CPU can handle and that would make my ram choices slightly different, if I got a dud that can't do 1900 then I'd save a bit getting the cheaper ram. But if that's not possible then I'll just choose a kit first.


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> Are you able to see what flck your CPU can handle without testing the RAM?


Yes.

I start to see WHEA errors at the same FCLK irrespective of memory clock on pretty much all of my Matisse and Vermeer parts. Error rate might be a bit higher with faster memory, as is vSOC requirement, but the errors start to become evident no matter how low the memory is clocked, in my experience.



AXi0M said:


> probably best to check with both, no need for 2000Fclk if you ram can't also do 4000MT/s.


If FCLK can be set sufficiently high it will perform better at maximum than 1:1, if one has slower memory.


----------



## StevieRay2

Blameless said:


> Yes.
> 
> I start to see WHEA errors at the same FCLK irrespective of memory clock on pretty much all of my Matisse and Vermeer parts. Error rate might be a bit higher with faster memory, as is vSOC requirement, but the errors start to become evident no matter how low the memory is clocked, in my experience.
> 
> 
> 
> If FCLK can be set sufficiently high it will perform better at maximum than 1:1, if one has slower memory.


What would be the simplest way to test this right now, change fclk to 1900 and leave ram as is, boot if it boots check WHEA errors(should I stress test?) if I get WHEA errors up vSOC and try again?
Right now my vSOC and other 4 settings are:
0.99
0.90
0.90
0.90
In Zentimings


----------



## ilmazzo

I finally managed to get GDM off and I'm tryng to squeeze again timings here and there....did not remeber which two voltages I increased regarding vram and if but I got nice stability improvements....bench above are with GDM on auto btw....

See a lot of 4 dimms very tight setups lately....and very different approaches to the timing tightening...


----------



## whwidjaja

Just wanted to share my quick tune attempt of cheap Team Dark Pro B-Die single rank 4x8GB kits. This is stable for 24/7 at only 1.45v for heavy daily usage such as: gaming, rendering, etc.










Some settings are based on Buildzoid's suggestion on important settings to maximize DDR4 performance such as:
tRP: 14
tRAS: 28
CR: 1T
tRTP: 8
tRRD_sg: 4
tRRD_dg: 4
tFAW: 16
RDRD_sg: 7 (I managed to run it at 5 daily)
RDRD_dg: 4


----------



## Slaughtahouse

ilmazzo said:


> I finally managed to get GDM off and I'm tryng to squeeze again timings here and there....did not remeber which two voltages I increased regarding vram and if but I got nice stability improvements....bench above are with GDM on auto btw....
> 
> See a lot of 4 dimms very tight setups lately....and very different approaches to the timing tightening...


Try benching something that pushes memory more. My CB20 score on untuned RAM (XMP @ 1900IF) is 100 points higher.



Spoiler: CB20 - 5814 Points


----------



## kaiserc

whwidjaja said:


> Just wanted to share my quick tune attempt of cheap Team Dark Pro B-Die single rank 4x8GB kits. This is stable for 24/7 at only 1.45v for heavy daily usage such as: gaming, rendering, etc.
> 
> View attachment 2577759
> 
> 
> Some settings are based on Buildzoid's suggestion on important settings to maximize DDR4 performance such as:
> tRP: 14
> tRAS: 28
> CR: 1T
> tRTP: 8
> tRRD_sg: 4
> tRRD_dg: 4
> tFAW: 16
> RDRD_sg: 7 (I managed to run it at 5 daily)
> RDRD_dg: 4


Nice, I have this RAM - I'll try this on my Asus B550M Tuf Plus .
Any other voltage's set here apart from voltage? what bios settings?


----------



## tabascosauz

whwidjaja said:


> Just wanted to share my quick tune attempt of cheap Team Dark Pro B-Die single rank 4x8GB kits. This is stable for 24/7 at only 1.45v for heavy daily usage such as: gaming, rendering, etc.
> 
> Some settings are based on Buildzoid's suggestion on important settings to maximize DDR4 performance such as:
> tRP: 14
> tRAS: 28
> CR: 1T
> tRTP: 8
> tRRD_sg: 4
> tRRD_dg: 4
> tFAW: 16
> RDRD_sg: 7 (I managed to run it at 5 daily)
> RDRD_dg: 4


Looks promising but 1.45V doesn't really mean much when your tRFC is 350ns........it's one of the neediest when it comes to voltage

That and tRC of 87 is negating a fair bit of the speed


----------



## umea

figured i might as well share what i got stable on my SR kit. i might see what else i can tighten on here but i don't mind running this, just a shame i have a hole at 1900fclk and anything above gives wheas (which i still need to test to see perf there). running this at 1.5v (passed TM5 50 1usmus cycles)








my DR kit shouldn't be too troublesome to mess with, however i'd like to try to stabilize tRCDRD 14 as well as run 1T GDM off (havent even tried to test this at all yet, might be impossible on my chip/sticks), which will make tweaking it a lot more time consuming.

anyone have any idea as to how to adjust vsoc? i thought it'd be "SoC/Uncore OC Voltage" but doesn't seem to matter what i put here, always pushes it to 1.2v. feel like i'm missing something here.. i obviously have no need to run 1.2v vsoc for 3733mhz lol.


----------



## mcagricetinkaya

hello guys i need your help. I just bought the processor. I have asus rog strix lc ii 360 liquid cooling. I just did the following from the bios cppc enabled cppc Preferred Cores Disabled CPU - Global C-State Control Enabled In addition, PBO enabled I'm not bothered by anything about heat and temperature, but when I work on the computer, the fans suddenly rise and stabilize it again. Can you help me?


----------



## mcagricetinkaya

özellikler


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> What would be the simplest way to test this right now, change fclk to 1900 and leave ram as is, boot if it boots check WHEA errors(should I stress test?) if I get WHEA errors up vSOC and try again?
> Right now my vSOC and other 4 settings are:
> 0.99
> 0.90
> 0.90
> 0.90
> In Zentimings


I'd just set vSoC and VDDG to some moderate level (1.125 vSoC, 1v/1.05v VDDG) and test 1933, 1966, and 2000 FCLK (even if you get some errors at 1933, test higher, to rule out any FCLK holes). Run some OCCT or y-cruncher.

If you find an FCLK where there are only a few errors start adjusting CPU 1.8v up until the errors stop, start to increase, or you reach 1.95v. You can also try more vSoC, then VDDG (IOD first) at this point.



umea said:


> anyone have any idea as to how to adjust vsoc? i thought it'd be "SoC/Uncore OC Voltage" but doesn't seem to matter what i put here, always pushes it to 1.2v. feel like i'm missing something here.. i obviously have no need to run 1.2v vsoc for 3733mhz lol.
> View attachment 2577821


By setting it back to auto in that section and then using a hex editor on a profile you saved to a USB stick, modifying it, and then reloading.

All those options that used to be in "external voltage settings", they still exist, and you still want to use them, but there are no UEFI entries for them as long as the 5800X3D is installed. I had to test values on a 5800X (non-3D) and isolate the changes they were making to saved profiles.

Those settings are part of the same block I mention here. 200-230 has that now-hidden section and is consistent across all firmware versions I've tested. You can set voltages, load line calibration, and VRM PWM frequency here.


----------



## StevieRay2

Blameless said:


> If you find an FCLK where there are only a few errors start adjusting CPU 1.8v up until the errors stop, start to increase, or you reach 1.95v. You can also try more vSoC, then VDDG (IOD first) at this point.


Thanks I'll try that, also what setting is CPU?


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> Thanks I'll try that, also what setting is CPU?


"CPU 1.8v" is a voltage rail that is ~1.8v on auto, and can potentially influence FCLK stability. It may also be listed as CPU VTT.


----------



## frankie90

@Blameless thank you again for helping me out on this, I really, really do appreciate it! After a long weekend of messing around with timings and stress testing, here's where I'm at now. How is this looking, compared to my previous result? I am now at a DRAM voltage of 1.52v, compared to my previous of 1.45v. After long hours of stress testing, I saw 46c max on my RAM temps, with a new fan configuration. I think I'm good to go, as my research has told me B-Die can handle more voltage, as long as temps are okay...

With that being said, I am SO freaking excited! I ran Cinebench after all this, and I finally cracked 15k out of nowhere! I am still at -30 all core, but along with messing with timings, I changed my LLC from level 2 to 3. I guess this combined action got me my personal best Cinebench and Time Spy scores!


----------



## AXi0M

ilmazzo said:


> Quoted wrong person


----------



## AXi0M

Deleted


----------



## Imprezzion

Man I so wished ASUS boards could run the CO BIOS mod.. just comparing MSI's offerings in the €120-150 price range none of the boards can even come close to the B550-F in terms of looks, M.2 heatsinks, slot layout and general features like NIC quality, audio quality...

Do I really "need" CO / PBO to make the chip perform at it's best in games when cooled with a overpowered custom loop considering you can't actually go above 44.5 multi anyway? I do plan on some BCLK OC but the ASUS should handle that fine as well.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Imprezzion said:


> Man I so wished ASUS boards could run the CO BIOS mod.. just comparing MSI's offerings in the €120-150 price range none of the boards can even come close to the B550-F in terms of looks, M.2 heatsinks, slot layout and general features like NIC quality, audio quality...
> 
> Do I really "need" CO / PBO to make the chip perform at it's best in games when cooled with a overpowered custom loop considering you can't actually go above 44.5 multi anyway? I do plan on some BCLK OC but the ASUS should handle that fine as well.


The chip on stock behaviour will allow up to 2-3 cores simultaneously hit 4.55GHz from user reports here. Edit: See below snip from Blameless. It happens so fast that no software tool can really capture it to confirm exactly (1000's of updates per second). No game will peg all cores 100% where it would downclock to 4.2 - 4.3 Ghz like in Cinebench etc.

CO helps keeps thermals in check but since these CPUs are clock limited anyways... performance gains are minor. Even with bus speed overclocking, the OP only got a 1-2% gain in performance. I would not swap your motherboard if you're happy with the features that can make a real world difference.


----------



## jootn2kx

Anyone noticed the massive cpu bottleneck in A plague tale reqiem if enabled dlss? Its the first game I noticed that got this cpu to it's knees lol. saw gpu usage even going to 60/70's in some parts of the game with a 3080TI @ 3440x1440 🤔.


----------



## BCB57

mcagricetinkaya said:


> hello guys i need your help. I just bought the processor. I have asus rog strix lc ii 360 liquid cooling. I just did the following from the bios cppc enabled cppc Preferred Cores Disabled CPU - Global C-State Control Enabled In addition, PBO enabled I'm not bothered by anything about heat and temperature, but when I work on the computer, the fans suddenly rise and stabilize it again. Can you help me?


I gather your concern is fan noise(?), and it appears that system fan #2 is your problem, although 112,500 RPM (!) probably is not accurate. Somewhere in your BIOS settings are options to adjust each of your fans using a x/y coordinate graph of fan speed (percentage of maximum) versus CPU temperature: a "fan curve." Adjust your fans so CPU temperature stays below 80C under max load, but are not too loud under normal operating temperatures.


----------



## lowfat

When I went to start seeing how how fclk could go on 5800X3D I noticed one of my sticks of b-die was erroring hard. Can't afford to buy a similar kit again, so went w/ 4000MHz GSkill Rigjaw C18. Can't figure out what ICs it uses as they aren't listed in TB but are single rank. These clocks are 12hr TM5 extreme1 stable @ 1.42Vdimm. In process of seeing how low it can go and be stable. Currently testing 1.33V.

Excess the pic, don't have internet on my 'memory OCing SSD' as I didn't know if moving to a different Windows install could break activation.


----------



## Blameless

Been playing with the cache and latency tool in ADIA...offers a bit more granularity than the standard bench:











Imprezzion said:


> Man I so wished ASUS boards could run the CO BIOS mod..


NVRAM dump/mod tool not working?

PBO2Tuner with a scheduled task not acceptable as an alternative?



Imprezzion said:


> Do I really "need" CO / PBO to make the chip perform at it's best in games when cooled with a overpowered custom loop considering you can't actually go above 44.5 multi anyway?


Not in games, but more demanding loads will need CO adjustment to hold peak sustained all-core boost unless you have very cold water.



Slaughtahouse said:


> The chip on stock behaviour will allow up to 2-3 cores simultaneously hit 4.55GHz from user reports here. It happens so fast that no software tool can really capture it to confirm exactly (1000's of updates per second).














jootn2kx said:


> Anyone noticed the massive cpu bottleneck in A plague tale reqiem if enabled dlss?


Not surprising, as that cuts the rasterization workload significantly. Just throw more eye candy at things until you're GPU limited again.


----------



## ilmazzo

Slaughtahouse said:


> Try benching something that pushes memory more. My CB20 score on untuned RAM (XMP @ 1900IF) is 100 points higher.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: CB20 - 5814 Points
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2577774


all right thanks for the feedback

i don’t remember your build so before I gonna check it are you saying that on default and just pushing if amd ddr 1:1 to 1900-3800, and ram on xmp (3200?3600?)you get to that cb20? got it right?

cheers

ps: on a general note: is it just me or this cpu just loves dr memory?


----------



## ilmazzo

Trying trcdrd at 16 while benches are getting me worst results compared to 18 tm5 seems saying me I’m stable.. who should I trust?


----------



## Slaughtahouse

ilmazzo said:


> all right thanks for the feedback
> 
> i don’t remember your build so before I gonna check it are you saying that on default and just pushing if amd ddr 1:1 to 1900-3800, and ram on xmp (3200?3600?)you get to that cb20? got it right?
> 
> cheers
> 
> ps: on a general note: is it just me or this cpu just loves dr memory?


No worries. I need to update sig but shared HWiNFO for visibility. Modified settings in BIOS but minor: LLC is set to high, RAM set to XMP, with a modifier of 3800/1900IF. 

I dont have access at the moment but those results were with *-25 CO all core* in PBO Tuner in Windows.


----------



## ilmazzo

Slaughtahouse said:


> No worries. I need to update sig but shared HWiNFO for visibility. Modified settings in BIOS but minor: LLC is set to high, RAM set to XMP, with a modifier of 3800/1900IF.
> 
> I dont have access at the moment but those results were with *-25 CO all core* in PBO Tuner in Windows.


got it thanks

I forgot that I left llc to auto.....

Anyway a strange thing (bug?): lot of reporting tools claim my trfc is at 665 while I have 312 in bios (it should be 165ish ns)....any thoughts?


----------



## StevieRay2

Blameless said:


> "CPU 1.8v" is a voltage rail that is ~1.8v on auto, and can potentially influence FCLK stability. It may also be listed as CPU VTT.


Which y-cruncher tests are good to test ram and/or flck?


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> Which y-cruncher tests are good to test ram and/or flck?


HNT is solid for both RAM and FCLK. N32 and N64 aren't bad either.


----------



## whwidjaja

spent another 30 mins to fine tune the secondary timings. it already shows significant performance improvement in SuperPI


----------



## AXi0M

StevieRay2 said:


> Which y-cruncher tests are good to test ram and/or flck?


from my experience if you can pass a couple 2.5b runs of Y-cruncher with no WHEA's you shouldn't see them anywhere else. Also oddly enough spamming AIDA64 L3 Cache read and copy tests tends to throw alot of WHEA's aswell if not stable.


----------



## AXi0M

whwidjaja said:


> spent another 30 mins to fine tune the secondary timings. it already shows significant performance improvement in SuperPI
> 
> View attachment 2578118


with your current settings your could also try tRAS 21 and tRC as low as 35 then keep raising tRC from there if it's not stable at 35. You also probably don't need 1.1v VDDP, could probably get away with 0.9-1v.


----------



## skline00

Just replaced a 3900x with a 5800x3D in a rig with a Gigabyte Aorus Elite X570 mb and AMD 6800 (reference) both custom water cooled with EK velocity block for cpu and EK fullblock for the gpu.
32 gigs of DDR4-3600 (Gskill Neo 2x16) and a MO-RA3 Pro-420 rad (put back into service.

MSFS POPS!


----------



## 4i4ymi

Could you guide me to correct this problem?
The single core is always 100% when I play MHW IB.
When I use 5600X or 5700G they did not have any problem like this.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Is it a problem? Is in game performance better or worse?


----------



## 4i4ymi

Slaughtahouse said:


> Is it a problem? Is in game performance better or worse?


I will get a little lag when loading the new area and monsters use skill.


----------



## Blameless

4i4ymi said:


> I will get a little lag when loading the new area and monsters use skill.


Is the game's frame rate higher than it was before?


----------



## 4i4ymi

Blameless said:


> Is the game's frame rate higher than it was before?


If compare with 5700G, No. 
5700G Framerate 120-144. (I set the maximum at 144) 
5800X3G sometimes FPS drops to 60-80 when loading the new area and first ultimate skill of Elder dragon; for example Teostar.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Hard to tell to be honest. Task Manager isn't the best tool but it also shows that GPU usage is at 99% and single core high utilization isn't uncommon in a lot of games. What is more concerning is the severe drop in frame rate.

I can't find many results for Monster Hunter World: Iceborne but found one review with a RX 6800 + 5800X3D @1080p high settings should yield ~160FPS avg. 40本のゲームで検証！Ryzen 7 5800X3D対Core i9-12900K真のゲーミング最強CPU決定戦（Radeon編） | AMD公式ファンサイト - Page 5

I would try setting your game to High @ 1080p to compare results just to see how much deviation you have. 

Loading a new area shouldn't be CPU dependent and that drop seems significant compared to a weaker CPU. No other changes on your system? Everything else behaving normally? Consider reinstalling?


----------



## Simon*

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------- ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming X --------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------- 5.00 -------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Flashing on your own risk I'm not responsible for any damage that can accur while flashing your board with custom bios ONLY USABLE WITH Matisse (Zen2), Renoir (Zen2), Vermeer (Zen3) and Cezanne (Zen3) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Flashing: Create a FAT32 formatted USB Stick Copy the Bios file “creative.rom” on your USB Stick Load and save default settings in bios Flash it using USB Flashback If some settings are not unlocked, then flash again. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Changelog: Added PBO Settings for 5800X3D (AMD Overclocking - only PBO Limits and CO works) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source: Reous @ Hardwareluxx -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- X570_Phantom_Gaming_X_5.00 FLASH AT YOUR OWN RISK


----------



## ilmazzo

ilmazzo said:


> got it thanks
> 
> I forgot that I left llc to auto.....
> 
> Anyway a strange thing (bug?): lot of reporting tools claim my trfc is at 665 while I have 312 in bios (it should be 165ish ns)....any thoughts?


The funny thing is ... I can't find anymore LLC settings! If I recall correctly the menus appeared on my previous CPU when you put overclock to "manual" so I guess that since it is a locked cpu they just "hide" the LLC menus because of the missing main "manual overlcock mode" .... can anyone on x470 taichi confirm this?


----------



## Simon*

ilmazzo said:


> The funny thing is ... I can't find anymore LLC settings! If I recall correctly the menus appeared on my previous CPU when you put overclock to "manual" so I guess that since it is a locked cpu they just "hide" the LLC menus because of the missing main "manual overlcock mode" .... can anyone on x470 taichi confirm this?


its hidden because of the X3D, this is why i got today an MOD for my x570 Phantom. LLC settings couldnt be obtained but at least the AMD Overclocking Page


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Varies by board. Gigabyte B550i it is exposed.



Spoiler: System Info

















Spoiler: Tweaker Tab














CPU/VRM Settings










Spoiler:  Advance Settings - AMD CBS - NBIO - XFR Enhancement















Also have some options available in XFR enhancement. Shared about a week ago. I can lower targets as needed. I haven't tried raising but its been mentioned many times that limits are fused. Adjustments in BIOS won't supersede the fused limits.


----------



## ManniX-ITA

I have updated my custom power plans.

If you have Windows 10 try with the Snappy plan.

There are 2 versions and the 5800X3D could benefit from the PP version.
Test both versions and check also if they work better with CPPC Preferred Enabled or Disabled.


----------



## Tirade75

I've been out of the OC game for a while and all of these new settings are a bit overwhelming at first. Here is where I'm at currently:

Asus ROG Strix x570-e Gaming Wifi Motherboard with modded BIOS to unlock PBO and CO (and add VDDP Voltage)
5800x3d with -30 on all cores and limits set at 111W / 76A / 125W (set via PBO2 Tuner)
RAM is 3200 CL14 B-Die (So I've been told) running at 3600 CL16 w/ 1.4v set in BIOS

System has no WHEA errors, completes all stress test Cinebench, 3DMark, Heaven and 12 hours of Core Cycler

For some reason, I'm not happy with leaving things as they are so I want to start phase 2 of this and push the RAM to 3800. All of the voltages/timings/subtimings are tough to guess at so I'm hoping by posting a ZenTimings readout someone can give me a good safe baseline to start with!


----------



## Imprezzion

Tirade75 said:


> I've been out of the OC game for a while and all of these new settings are a bit overwhelming at first. Here is where I'm at currently:
> 
> Asus ROG Strix x570-e Gaming Wifi Motherboard with modded BIOS to unlock PBO and CO (and add VDDP Voltage)
> 5800x3d with -30 on all cores and limits set at 111W / 76A / 125W (set via PBO2 Tuner)
> RAM is 3200 CL14 B-Die (So I've been told) running at 3600 CL16 w/ 1.4v set in BIOS
> 
> System has no WHEA errors, completes all stress test Cinebench, 3DMark, Heaven and 12 hours of Core Cycler
> 
> For some reason, I'm not happy with leaving things as they are so I want to start phase 2 of this and push the RAM to 3800. All of the voltages/timings/subtimings are tough to guess at so I'm hoping by posting a ZenTimings readout someone can give me a good safe baseline to start with!
> 
> View attachment 2578341


Wait, so the mod does work on ASUS boards? I thought, at least the last test mod BIOS I had for the Crosshair Hero didn't work lol (not my board or CPU, just a friend's build). 

So, basically, if I buy a B550-F or X570 Prime Pro or whatever it should be possible to use BIOS level CO -?


----------



## MrHoof

Imprezzion said:


> Wait, so the mod does work on ASUS boards? I thought, at least the last test mod BIOS I had for the Crosshair Hero didn't work lol (not my board or CPU, just a friend's build).
> 
> So, basically, if I buy a B550-F or X570 Prime Pro or whatever it should be possible to use BIOS level CO -?


You dont need bios level CO, there is PBO2 tuner by PJVOL u can find on this forum dont know where the newest version is posted but u can find a older one in this thread somewhere.


----------



## kwikgta

Hey guys, newegg just dropped it to $329. I couldn't pass it up at that price


----------



## Tirade75

Imprezzion said:


> Wait, so the mod does work on ASUS boards? I thought, at least the last test mod BIOS I had for the Crosshair Hero didn't work lol (not my board or CPU, just a friend's build).
> 
> So, basically, if I buy a B550-F or X570 Prime Pro or whatever it should be possible to use BIOS level CO -?


Can't say if it works on your board (or even if it works on mine as Im using PBO2 Tuner and havent even tried the BIOS) but the notes for this BIOS says it does - [Sammelthread] - ASUS X570 Strix Series (X570-E Gaming, X570-E Gaming Wifi II, X570-F Gaming, X570-I Gaming)


----------



## Imprezzion

MrHoof said:


> You dont need bios level CO, there is PBO2 tuner by PJVOL u can find on this forum dont know where the newest version is posted but u can find a older one in this thread somewhere.


I prefer to keep my Windows as clean as possible from loads of 3rd party tools. Nothing against the tool or developer but my installs always get so cluttered with random tools and software I use like once cause I don't ever clean up... Hehe.. it's on me I guess. Well, since cheap MSI boards are basically all but sold out here locally I'll just grab a B550-F then, it suits all my needs, and run PBO2 Tuner for the time being. 

I'll probably order my 5800X3D and board tomorrow. Gotta also find a new case tbh..


----------



## 4i4ymi

Slaughtahouse said:


> Hard to tell to be honest. Task Manager isn't the best tool but it also shows that GPU usage is at 99% and single core high utilization isn't uncommon in a lot of games. What is more concerning is the severe drop in frame rate.
> 
> I can't find many results for Monster Hunter World: Iceborne but found one review with a RX 6800 + 5800X3D @1080p high settings should yield ~160FPS avg. 40本のゲームで検証！Ryzen 7 5800X3D対Core i9-12900K真のゲーミング最強CPU決定戦（Radeon編） | AMD公式ファンサイト - Page 5
> 
> I would try setting your game to High @ 1080p to compare results just to see how much deviation you have.
> 
> Loading a new area shouldn't be CPU dependent and that drop seems significant compared to a weaker CPU. No other changes on your system? Everything else behaving normally? Consider reinstalling?


I play with 1440P.
When I use HWinfo or Afterburner it shows the same as a task manager.
So, I already test with Nvidia 2060. FPS always drops the same as 6900XT.
but when I use intel 6700K with 6900XT it never drops the same as 5800X3D


----------



## Slaughtahouse

4i4ymi said:


> I play with 1440P.
> And when I use HWinfo or Afterburner it shows the same as a task manager.


So do I... but that review is a comparable. If you set it to their settings (1080p High) and you see your average results are vastly different, then we know something is definitely wrong. If its an isolated issue at one moment in the game, not sure how I can help.


----------



## StevieRay2

Think I can get anything more out of these Hynix DJR or maybe it's Hynix C 3600mhz (16-19-19-39)?
Try for 3800mhz or try for tighter timings on this CPU?


----------



## tabascosauz

ManniX-ITA said:


> I have updated my custom power plans.
> 
> If you have Windows 10 try with the Snappy plan.
> 
> There are 2 versions and the 5800X3D could benefit from the PP version.
> Test both versions and check also if they work better with CPPC Preferred Enabled or Disabled.


I'll give the new W11 plan a shot again. Some of the stuttering and low frames was from me not clean installing after 5900X>5800X3D. Dropped about 1.5ns AIDA alone on the new install


----------



## BCB57

ManniX-ITA said:


> I have updated my custom power plans.
> 
> If you have Windows 10 try with the Snappy plan.
> 
> There are 2 versions and the 5800X3D could benefit from the PP version.
> Test both versions and check also if they work better with CPPC Preferred Enabled or Disabled.


Is the Snappy V2 plan supposed to be for Windows 10 only (not 11)? I'm using it with Windows 11 now, and it seems to work very well... "snappy" is an appropriate name for it. Performance on CB23 is still better with CPPC Preferred Cores disabled.


----------



## ManniX-ITA

BCB57 said:


> Is the Snappy V2 plan supposed to be for Windows 10 only (not 11)? I'm using it with Windows 11 now, and it seems to work very well... "snappy" is an appropriate name for it. Performance on CB23 is still better with CPPC Preferred Cores disabled.


Yes it's supposed to be Win11 only.
And indeed also the test with Preferred Cores should be performed only on Win10 with the PP version (any profile).
Win11 is managing the cores in its own way whatever is set in the plan.

All the Win10 profiles are working as well on Win11 but with Snappy and Ultimate you don't get much better, if not at all, thermals, power consumption or performances.
Unless you are running an old Win11 installation of course, this is the behavior of the latest.
Anyway the worse that can happen is very slightly less performances, in the range of margin of error.


----------



## ilmazzo

I'm constantly (but slowly) improving both my tuning skills and the DDR4 timings\knowledge so I'just a bit over 60ns in aida latency while being at 1900/3800, so i'm quite happy with the resuslts so far...still non fully validated anyway

Guys which are you temps (without negative CO) when you run y-cruncher ? I got a run two days ago and was hovering near 88c 

Ah and there is mistery here: why zen timings (but even other monitoring tools) is reporting default trfc (350ns or 665) while I got 312 (165ish ns) in the bios? How can I test if it is a reporting bug or if my system is actually working at that value?


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> Think I can get anything more out of these Hynix DJR or maybe it's Hynix C 3600mhz (16-19-19-39)?
> Try for 3800mhz or try for tighter timings on this CPU?


As high as you can go at 1:1 FCLK:UCLK, without inducing WHEA errors, then worry about timings.



ilmazzo said:


> Guys which are you temps (without negative CO) when you run y-cruncher ? I got a run two days ago and was hovering near 88c


Almost any non-subambient cooling will hit the thermal limit in y-cruncher's hotter tests without any negative CO.



ilmazzo said:


> Ah and there is mistery here: why zen timings (but even other monitoring tools) is reporting default trfc (350ns or 665) while I got 312 (165ish ns) in the bios? How can I test if it is a reporting bug or if my system is actually working at that value?


Benchmark the difference between auto and your manual setting. That large of a reduction in tRFC should be readily apparent in memory sensitive tests.


----------



## Imprezzion

Lucky me. 5800X3D went on sale today from €439 down to €369 and a free Uncharted key. Instantly bought one, a ASUS B550-A because white, and a Fractal Torrent white. Now all I gotta do is rebuild my loop and paint the rads white hehe.


----------



## StevieRay2

ManniX-ITA said:


> Yes it's supposed to be Win11 only.
> And indeed also the test with Preferred Cores should be performed only on Win10 with the PP version (any profile).
> Win11 is managing the cores in its own way whatever is set in the plan.
> 
> All the Win10 profiles are working as well on Win11 but with Snappy and Ultimate you don't get much better, if not at all, thermals, power consumption or performances.
> Unless you are running an old Win11 installation of course, this is the behavior of the latest.
> Anyway the worse that can happen is very slightly less performances, in the range of margin of error.


Snappy v1 is meant for win10 and v2 for 11? pp is both?


----------



## Blameless

Imprezzion said:


> I prefer to keep my Windows as clean as possible from loads of 3rd party tools. Nothing against the tool or developer but my installs always get so cluttered with random tools and software I use like once cause I don't ever clean up... Hehe.. it's on me I guess. Well, since cheap MSI boards are basically all but sold out here locally I'll just grab a B550-F then, it suits all my needs, and run PBO2 Tuner for the time being.


PBO2Tuner doesn't stay running, it executes, applies the CO values in the command line it was given, and closes.


----------



## Imprezzion

Blameless said:


> PBO2Tuner doesn't stay running, it executes, applies the CO values in the command line it was given, and closes.


That sounds great! I'm an IT admin so I can appreciate scripts and programs that don't leave unnecessary services or processes running haha.

I should have my board (ASUS B550-A which is basically a white B550-F) and CPU here tomorrow and the new case Friday so looks like a fun weekend build. Gotta convert my EK Velocity D-RGB from Intel 1200 to AMD brackets which I got straight from EK a few weeks ago preparing for this, completely drain and strip the loop, rip 14 fan cables and RGB cables out of my old case and rebuild it from the ground up. Yup. Seems like fun 😊.

Perfect time to add a flow meter to my loop which I still don't have lol.


----------



## aditrex

Imprezzion said:


> Lucky me. 5800X3D went on sale today from €439 down to €369 and a free Uncharted key. Instantly bought one, a ASUS B550-A because white, and a Fractal Torrent white. Now all I gotta do is rebuild my loop and paint the rads white hehe.


i ordered mine to for 350eur i waited for this price drop and is paying off even tho in my ****ty country 58x3d still goes near 500eur i got it from german site happy with that tbh


----------



## ManniX-ITA

StevieRay2 said:


> Snappy v1 is meant for win10 and v2 for 11? pp is both?


You can use it but it's meant for Win10, same goes for the PP version.

The PP version is useless because Win11 does what it wants regardless of that particular setting.
There's a slightly different behavior in the scheduling but after quite some testing didn't see any improvement, only occasional slowdowns.
I wouldn't use it on Win11 and neither on Win10 unless you understand what it does.

The Snappy is very similar to the new Win11 Balanced (because in contrast with Win10 the Autonomous mode is implemented better).
There are some differences in the scheduling but again Win11 is disregarding most of them.
Couldn't see any sensible difference, better to stick with the Windows standard plan which is kept updated with Win11 (if they change something, not really likely but could happen).

But nothing stops you to test Snappy and Ultimate on Win11; I've done benchmarks, observed scheduling and idling.
Didn't do any real world usage so maybe there are appreciable differences.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Slaughtahouse said:


> So do I... but that review is a comparable. If you set it to their settings (1080p High) and you see your average results are vastly different, then we know something is definitely wrong. If its an isolated issue at one moment in the game, not sure how I can help.


@4i4ymi Just a thought since this thread conversation is talking about power plans. You may want to disable CPPC Preferred Cores in your EUFI / BIOS. This could help mitigate a single core being pegged at 100%.


----------



## 4i4ymi

Slaughtahouse said:


> @4i4ymi Just a thought since this thread conversation is talking about power plans. You may want to disable CPPC Preferred Cores in your EUFI / BIOS. This could help mitigate a single core being pegged at 100%.


I already disabled CPPC Preferred core and the power plan I already set to Ultimate Performance.


----------



## BCB57

ManniX-ITA said:


> You can use it but it's meant for Win10, same goes for the PP version.
> 
> The PP version is useless because Win11 does what it wants regardless of that particular setting.
> There's a slightly different behavior in the scheduling but after quite some testing didn't see any improvement, only occasional slowdowns.
> I wouldn't use it on Win11 and neither on Win10 unless you understand what it does.
> 
> The Snappy is very similar to the new Win11 Balanced (because in contrast with Win10 the Autonomous mode is implemented better).
> There are some differences in the scheduling but again Win11 is disregarding most of them.
> Couldn't see any sensible difference, better to stick with the Windows standard plan which is kept updated with Win11 (if they change something, not really likely but could happen).
> 
> But nothing stops you to test Snappy and Ultimate on Win11; I've done benchmarks, observed scheduling and idling.
> Didn't do any real world usage so maybe there are appreciable differences.


I appreciate your candid assessment, and have switched back to the Windows 11 Balanced plan for now.


----------



## StevieRay2

ManniX-ITA said:


> You can use it but it's meant for Win10, same goes for the PP version.
> 
> The PP version is useless because Win11 does what it wants regardless of that particular setting.
> There's a slightly different behavior in the scheduling but after quite some testing didn't see any improvement, only occasional slowdowns.
> I wouldn't use it on Win11 and neither on Win10 unless you understand what it does.
> 
> The Snappy is very similar to the new Win11 Balanced (because in contrast with Win10 the Autonomous mode is implemented better).
> There are some differences in the scheduling but again Win11 is disregarding most of them.
> Couldn't see any sensible difference, better to stick with the Windows standard plan which is kept updated with Win11 (if they change something, not really likely but could happen).
> 
> But nothing stops you to test Snappy and Ultimate on Win11; I've done benchmarks, observed scheduling and idling.
> Didn't do any real world usage so maybe there are appreciable differences.


Oh thanks, I've been using Snappy v1 all this time and switched to the v2, don't really notice a difference on Windows 10 but I'll keep using it


----------



## ilmazzo

Blameless said:


> Benchmark the difference between auto and your manual setting. That large of a reduction in tRFC should be readily apparent in memory sensitive tests.


Exactly, thanks!

seems a bios bug or a training bypass for a too tight value dunno but I was actually at def tfrc!!!

here it is a 170ns trfc run from the previous 350:



I’m slowly getting there lol


----------



## umea

btw, what kind of negative CO are you guys running? i'll probably get around to messing with it tonight but where should i start?


----------



## Frosted racquet

Start with -5 CO and run a Cinebench test (or whichever you prefer), note the results, increase the CO to -10 and retest every -5 increments. Some have had better results with -25 CO than with -30.
Once you find the best result, stress test it with CoreCycler and an allcore test like Prime95 or YCruncher


----------



## Tirade75

Tirade75 said:


> Can't say if it works on your board (or even if it works on mine as Im using PBO2 Tuner and havent even tried the BIOS) but the notes for this BIOS says it does - [Sammelthread] - ASUS X570 Strix Series (X570-E Gaming, X570-E Gaming Wifi II, X570-F Gaming, X570-I Gaming)





Tirade75 said:


> I've been out of the OC game for a while and all of these new settings are a bit overwhelming at first. Here is where I'm at currently:
> 
> Asus ROG Strix x570-e Gaming Wifi Motherboard with modded BIOS to unlock PBO and CO (and add VDDP Voltage)
> 5800x3d with -30 on all cores and limits set at 111W / 76A / 125W (set via PBO2 Tuner)
> RAM is 3200 CL14 B-Die (So I've been told) running at 3600 CL16 w/ 1.4v set in BIOS
> 
> System has no WHEA errors, completes all stress test Cinebench, 3DMark, Heaven and 12 hours of Core Cycler
> 
> For some reason, I'm not happy with leaving things as they are so I want to start phase 2 of this and push the RAM to 3800. All of the voltages/timings/subtimings are tough to guess at so I'm hoping by posting a ZenTimings readout someone can give me a good safe baseline to start with!
> 
> View attachment 2578341


Going to reply to myself here. Spent 8 hours today working on this. I copied another users settings that had almost identical hardware as me and couldnt get it pass testmem5 validation. Finally made 1 change to tRCDRD and boom, good to go. After that I was cruising and will be doing some overnight testing with the following configuration:










All cores are still at -30 with limits of 111/76/125. VDIMM voltage is at 1.45

My goal was to reduce voltages everywhere I could so Im pretty happy with these voltages. Ill update if all stress tests pass.


----------



## Frosted racquet

@Tirade75 try tRTP 6, tRDRDSD/DD 4/4, tWRWRSD/DD 6/6


----------



## Tirade75

Frosted racquet said:


> @Tirade75 try tRTP 6, tRDRDSD/DD 4/4, tWRWRSD/DD 6/6


No dice. Wonder which setting was the culprit!


----------



## Frosted racquet

Id start with changing back tRTP


----------



## Tirade75

Frosted racquet said:


> Id start with changing back tRTP


Yep that was the one. Thanks!


----------



## Simon*

ilmazzo said:


> I'm constantly (but slowly) improving both my tuning skills and the DDR4 timings\knowledge so I'just a bit over 60ns in aida latency while being at 1900/3800, so i'm quite happy with the resuslts so far...still non fully validated anyway
> 
> Guys which are you temps (without negative CO) when you run y-cruncher ? I got a run two days ago and was hovering near 88c
> 
> Ah and there is mistery here: why zen timings (but even other monitoring tools) is reporting default trfc (350ns or 665) while I got 312 (165ish ns) in the bios? How can I test if it is a reporting bug or if my system is actually working at that value?


----------



## ilmazzo

Very nice ram latency but awful L3 latency.....I'm always near 12.3/12.4 how did you get to 14ish? mmmmmmm

I'm surprised it does manage so well 4-sticks configurations like that but I can't justify myself go to 32gb route since it is only a gaming rig, I would maybe just upgrade to ta 4000-4400 used kit for a cheap price just for having it and to squeeze again timings for e-peen pride....on my other forum there was a 4800 cl20 royal kit on sell for uh 180€ if I recall well.....for 100€ I would think about it, maybe...


----------



## Simon*

ilmazzo said:


> Very nice ram latency but awful L3 latency.....I'm always near 12.3/12.4 how did you get to 14ish? mmmmmmm
> 
> I'm surprised it does manage so well 4-sticks configurations like that but I can't justify myself go to 32gb route since it is only a gaming rig, I would maybe just upgrade to ta 4000-4400 used kit for a cheap price just for having it and to squeeze again timings for e-peen pride....on my other forum there was a 4800 cl20 royal kit on sell for uh 180€ if I recall well.....for 100€ I would think about it, maybe...



Win11 is the thing. Latency would be great on Win10


----------



## zbug

ManniX-ITA said:


> You can use it but it's meant for Win10, same goes for the PP version.
> 
> The PP version is useless because Win11 does what it wants regardless of that particular setting.
> There's a slightly different behavior in the scheduling but after quite some testing didn't see any improvement, only occasional slowdowns.
> I wouldn't use it on Win11 and neither on Win10 unless you understand what it does.
> 
> The Snappy is very similar to the new Win11 Balanced (because in contrast with Win10 the Autonomous mode is implemented better).
> There are some differences in the scheduling but again Win11 is disregarding most of them.
> Couldn't see any sensible difference, better to stick with the Windows standard plan which is kept updated with Win11 (if they change something, not really likely but could happen).
> 
> But nothing stops you to test Snappy and Ultimate on Win11; I've done benchmarks, observed scheduling and idling.
> Didn't do any real world usage so maybe there are appreciable differences.


Thanks for all the work you done.

Just to be sure I 100% understand as I had read it the other way around.

If we are on Win 11 (22H2 for myself), we should not use/need any of these power plans and balanced would be preferred?
If so (assuming there is a slider), if we don't really care about power consumption, we can crank the slider all the way to the max?

Thanks!


----------



## 4i4ymi

Tirade75 said:


> No dice. Wonder which setting was the culprit!
> 
> View attachment 2578698


tRFC ns need to increase to 160-180.
Could you try to change tRFC to 304. 
if still error change again to 342. 
if pass try to reduce this point.
And tCL if b die it can reduce to 14.


----------



## ManniX-ITA

zbug said:


> If we are on Win 11 (22H2 for myself), we should not use/need any of these power plans and balanced would be preferred?


No, there is a Balanced LowPower for Win11.
At the cost of a small performance drop you get better idle temperatures, lower working temperatures, much less temperature spikes.
For some reason the cpu package power draw, despite the lower temps, doesn't change much if at all.



zbug said:


> If so (assuming there is a slider), if we don't really care about power consumption, we can crank the slider all the way to the max?


Yes there's a 3 choices drop down instead of the slider but it's the same concept.
If you don't care about temperatures or power draw, the best is directly the High Performance followed by the Balanced with the slider to the Max.


----------



## mcagricetinkaya

Guys, I don't know much. Is it very necessary to set fclk or something?


----------



## ilmazzo

Simon* said:


> Win11 is the thing. Latency would be great on Win10


 woah, happy to have not upgraded


----------



## mcagricetinkaya

Is there anyone helping?


----------



## ManniX-ITA

mcagricetinkaya said:


> Is there anyone helping?


It's a very generic question...
Depends on you memory if you can/it's worth.
Post a ZenTimings screenshot to start.


----------



## mcagricetinkaya

ManniX-ITA said:


> It's a very generic question...
> Depends on you memory if you can/it's worth.
> Post a ZenTimings screenshot to start.


hi dude here is the screenshot


----------



## ManniX-ITA

ilmazzo said:


> woah, happy to have not upgraded


Generally is quite usable now, great peak performances.
But memory and cache speed it's still subpar against Win10.
Same profile scoring 59.7 seconds on y-cruncher pi-25b Win10 took 60.5 on Win11 debloated.


----------



## mcagricetinkaya

.


----------



## ManniX-ITA

mcagricetinkaya said:


> .


Please use the camera button top dx in Zentimings next time to take a screenshot 

Yes you need to set the FCLK.
Desync is only worth for benchmarking.
You need to set 1900 FCLK and 3800 MHz RAM and check it works.
Otherwise you need to go down if you have the hole.

You also need a good profile for you Samsung b-die DR at 3800 MHz.
Depends which voltage you want to run.
Decide what is the voltage you are willing to run daily and ask for a profile around that.

This profile is very though and needs 1.56V in BIOS for VDIMM.
I don't use any special cooling.










It should work on your kit pretty easy but you have to check.

You don't need VDDP at 1.100 for 3800 MHz, set it at 0.900.
Also set VSOC at 1.1V cause 1.0V is too low.


----------



## mcagricetinkaya

ManniX-ITA said:


> Please use the camera button top dx in Zentimings next time to take a screenshot
> 
> Yes you need to set the FCLK.
> Desync is only worth for benchmarking.
> You need to set 1900 FCLK and 3800 MHz RAM and check it works.
> Otherwise you need to go down if you have the hole.
> 
> You also need a good profile for you Samsung b-die DR at 3800 MHz.
> Depends which voltage you want to run.
> Decide what is the voltage you are willing to run daily and ask for a profile around that.
> 
> This profile is very though and needs 1.56V in BIOS for VDIMM.
> I don't use any special cooling.
> 
> View attachment 2578758
> 
> 
> It should work on your kit pretty easy but you have to check.
> 
> You don't need VDDP at 1.100 for 3800 MHz, set it at 0.900.
> Also set VSOC at 1.1V cause 1.0V is too low.


Sorry mate, I'm not very knowledgeable. I want to make the right settings and use it, I don't want to do anything missing. I will do what you say


----------



## frankie90

mcagricetinkaya said:


> Sorry mate, I'm not very knowledgeable. I want to make the right settings and use it, I don't want to do anything missing. I will do what you say


I started out where you’re at as well. Take a read through this forum, lots and lots of useful information on where to with memory speed, FCLK, voltages, and timings. I’ve certainly improved a lot doing so.


----------



## arkantos91

Hi all,

I've received my new 5800X3D and I'd like to know how to use tweak it in order to use it at best performance/temperatures.

I have an Asus Hero X570 Wi-fi and previously a 3900X which I had running with a negative 0.1 voltage offset.

I've read from multiple sources about what to do with the 5800X3D and watched many videos (someone mentions PBO2) and I'm pretty confused about what to do.

Here in first page I see



> AMD CBS > NBIO > SMU > CPPC Enabled
> AMD CBS > NBIO > SMU > CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled
> AMD CBS > CPU > Global C-State Control Enabled
> Use "the tool" or PBO2 Tuner to set CO curve verified with Corecycler AVX2 test.
> RAM bandwidth seems to be more beneficial than tight latency, obviously fast and tight is best.
> Keep SOC, CLDO VDDP, CCD, IOD voltages as low as you can for stability to preserve power envelope.
> PLL of 1.85-1.95 seem to work well for higher FCLK. 2.0+ can cause USB dropout. 1.75 Observed stable at 3800/1900.


But I've no idea if this is still the proper/best/recommended way to go since it's from 6 months ago, and also I've no idea on how to perform some of the steps mentioned i.e.


> Use "the tool" or PBO2 Tuner to set CO curve verified with Corecycler AVX2 test


So if anybody of good will can share some ELI5 on how to reduce the temps while keeping frequencies on par/higher than default, it would gladly help. Even some YouTube video would be great, probably even easier to follow.

I'm not interested in squeezing every last Hz and hyper-optimizing, I'd just like to make it run better than stock considering I also have a 360 mm AIO on it.

Thanks.


----------



## mcagricetinkaya

How will adjusting the flck voltage values give me an advantage?


----------



## Blameless

mcagricetinkaya said:


> How will adjusting the flck voltage values give me an advantage?


CPU is power and thermally capped, so using only what you need can provide a very small edge in boost behavior at higher loads. Using correct voltages is also good best-practice as it will minimize potential sources of instability or anomaly that may need to be diagnosed later.


----------



## mcagricetinkaya

Blameless said:


> CPU is power and thermally capped, so using only what you need can provide a very small edge in boost behavior at higher loads. Using correct voltages is also good best-practice as it will minimize potential sources of instability or anomaly that may need to be diagnosed later.


so how can i set it up correctly.


----------



## Blameless

ManniX-ITA said:


> It should work on your kit pretty easy but you have to check.


He's not using Samsung B-die, at least not the kind of B-die everyone refers to, as you can't make a 16GiB single rank DIMM with 8Gb x8 ICs.

This looks like Micron stuff.



mcagricetinkaya said:


> so how can i set it up correctly.


ManniX-ITA touched on the voltages. A good place to start with vSoC would be 1.1v and VDDP should not need to be more than 0.9v.

You're also using the XMP profile on 4266MT/s memory, on a platform that is rarely capable of running the memory clock in sync with the Fabric or memory controller past 1900-2000MHz. Chances are the system would perform better at ~3800MT/s, with everything synchronized, and using tighter memory timings.

I am not particularly knowledgeable with regard to Micron memory and I'd recommend asking in this thread for more specific advice.


----------



## ManniX-ITA

Blameless said:


> He's not using Samsung B-die, at least not the kind of B-die everyone refers to, as you can't make a 16GiB single rank DIMM with 8Gb x8 ICs.
> 
> This looks like Micron stuff.


Oh damn I was convinced I did check but I didn't 

It's probably Micron at that speed, yes.


----------



## lowfat

Done tuning what I think is single rank CJR. But can't confirm. Pretty impressed how low Vsoc, Vddg IOC, Vddg CCD can go w/o issues. Yet 1933 1:1 wasn't error free no matter how high I went.


----------



## zbug

ManniX-ITA said:


> No, there is a Balanced LowPower for Win11.
> At the cost of a small performance drop you get better idle temperatures, lower working temperatures, much less temperature spikes.
> For some reason the cpu package power draw, despite the lower temps, doesn't change much if at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes there's a 3 choices drop down instead of the slider but it's the same concept.
> If you don't care about temperatures or power draw, the best is directly the High Performance followed by the Balanced with the slider to the Max.


Thanks for the answer!

Are the boosting behavior/ST performances etc "better" with high performances for the x3d? I recall that for the 5900x at least, balanced was actually better.


----------



## ManniX-ITA

zbug said:


> Are the boosting behavior/ST performances etc "better" with high performances for the x3d? I recall that for the 5900x at least, balanced was actually better.


I don't know with Windows 11 how the 3D behaves.
On my 5950X the ST boost and general peak performances are great with all the Win11 profiles.
They are all almost the same.
Did quite some repeated benchmarking and I had the impression the High Performance is a tad better.

With the Balanced LowPower it's a notch worse, similar to Win10, but the temperatures are much better.


----------



## zbug

ManniX-ITA said:


> I don't know with Windows 11 how the 3D behaves.
> On my 5950X the ST boost and general peak performances are great with all the Win11 profiles.
> They are all almost the same.
> Did quite some repeated benchmarking and I had the impression the High Performance is a tad better.
> 
> With the Balanced LowPower it's a notch worse, similar to Win10, but the temperatures are much better.


Thanks. I'll give a spin to the high performance and see how it behaves temperature wise. I generally idle at 30/35 tops currently so i'm not too worried on temps (and i have an old 360 AIO)


----------



## ManniX-ITA

zbug said:


> Thanks. I'll give a spin to the high performance and see how it behaves temperature wise. I generally idle at 30/35 tops currently so i'm not too worried on temps (and i have an old 360 AIO)


Nice, if you have time would be nice if you can give a try to Balanced LowPower for Win11 and report on performances and temps.


----------



## mcagricetinkaya

Can someone help me set up curve optimization?


----------



## mcagricetinkaya

Friends, why is this economic structure low and it may end?


----------



## Jabdah

@*mcagricetinkaya*

Just read the entire thread... so many hints and tips how to tweak a 5800x3d. You cant hope for a " They do all the things for me " situation. Just try and error... If it works, great, if not = bios reset. ...

You have to learn and do it for your own!
And for sure, thats only my opinion.


----------



## mcagricetinkaya

I don't know how to proceed. Is there anyone who can reset the bios and help me one by one for the correct stable settings.


----------



## Jabdah

@*mcagricetinkaya*
Quote
Is there anyone who can reset the bios?
/Quote

Yes, sure, thats you. Read the manual of your Mainboard and look for CLEAR CMOS.


----------



## Jabdah

@*mcagricetinkaya*

Oh and, if you have NO idea what you are doing, just keep the Bios on default. Be happy about the major speed of the 5800x3D and its all fine..

If you find someone to push your mem to XMP Level.. well. nice... Im not willed to do that..


----------



## mcagricetinkaya

Jabdah said:


> @*mcagricetinkaya*
> 
> Oh and, if you have NO idea what you are doing, just keep the Bios on default. Be happy about the major speed of the 5800x3D and its all fine..
> 
> If you find someone to push your mem to XMP Level.. well. nice... Im not willed to do that..


True yes you are right my friend, but still want to get the full performance, I need to examine a little more.


----------



## StevieRay2

What's the official link for Thaiphoon Burner? Searching finds me multiple sites and some seem unsafe when I try and enter it


----------



## Frosted racquet

StevieRay2 said:


> What's the official link for Thaiphoon Burner? Searching finds me multiple sites and some seem unsafe when I try and enter it





Thaiphoon Burner - Official Support Website


----------



## mcagricetinkaya

Can anyone help me with the correct settings?


----------



## StevieRay2

Frosted racquet said:


> Thaiphoon Burner - Official Support Website


Should I get freeware or shareware version?
Oh never mind, ones free and ones not


----------



## 67091

Hi Lads
Soooo I went into my bios and did alittle undervolt, something like 0.050 and what I notice, is that the clocks are not as high as they were before. Is this normal? Bear in mind my CO -20 , stable 36 hours prime / all core cycle tests, I had -30 but failed my 24hour prime test.


----------



## Owterspace

What are you guys trying to do?

This is my X3D @ full stock. Some sub timing tweaks that's about it.


----------



## umea

phew, this might be a unique one, but is there any way to run a static all core OC on this chip?  or any level of static OC.


----------



## thesebastian

4i4ymi said:


> Could you guide me to correct this problem?
> The single core is always 100% when I play MHW IB.
> When I use 5600X or 5700G they did not have any problem like this.


I tried MHW today (haven't opened the game in 2-3 years and was curious how it was since I'm playing "Sunbreak" atm). At 1440p I was getting 90-110 FPS (GPU Bottleneck). At 1080p was getting 144 FPS fixed (VSYNC On bottleneck). I enabled DX12.
Game is much more heavy than Rise/Sunbreak. At least on GPU side.* But I haven't experience a CPU bottleneck.







*


----------



## 4i4ymi

thesebastian said:


> I tried MHW today (haven't opened the game in 2-3 years and was curious how it was since I'm playing "Sunbreak" atm). At 1440p I was getting 90-110 FPS (GPU Bottleneck). At 1080p was getting 144 FPS fixed (VSYNC On bottleneck). I enabled DX12.
> Game is much more heavy than Rise/Sunbreak. At least on GPU side.* But I haven't experience a CPU bottleneck.
> 
> View attachment 2579030
> *


Could you check all core usage?


----------



## Nighthog

Tried some BCLK on my X570 Xtreme with the external SATA controller in the NVME M.2 slot.
102.50BCLK haven't given me to many issues in general. Only some extra Audio crackle but might be fixable with a little tweaking.

102.50BCLK makes memory run @ 4100Mts with 2050FCLK. (settings are verified stable upto 4133Mts 2066FCLK without BCLK)
Haven't checked too much how it works but core cycler was happy as was Y-cruncher with some reasonable light CO added like -10 & -15 on some cores.
I haven't tested more as I had issues with the controller on my MSI board going above this BCLK with it not detecting the drives attached. Not verified if it does the same on the X570 Xtreme.

Most applications hit the PPT limit and will clock down heavily to maintain limits. So you don't see too much of the extra allowed boost with the BCLK added.


----------



## RackarN

Nighthog said:


> Tried some BCLK on my X570 Xtreme with the external SATA controller in the NVME M.2 slot.
> 102.50BCLK haven't given me to many issues in general. Only some extra Audio crackle but might be fixable with a little tweaking.
> 
> 102.50BCLK makes memory run @ 4100Mts with 2050FCLK. (settings are verified stable upto 4133Mts 2066FCLK without BCLK)
> Haven't checked too much how it works but core cycler was happy as was Y-cruncher with some reasonable light CO added like -10 & -15 on some cores.
> I haven't tested more as I had issues with the controller on my MSI board going above this BCLK with it not detecting the drives attached. Not verified if it does the same on the X570 Xtreme.
> 
> Most applications hit the PPT limit and will clock down heavily to maintain limits. So you don't see too much of the extra allowed boost with the BCLK added.


I had to set mine to 100 after i found it would make pubg and COD have microstutters. Was running 102, played some games and didnt think about it since it was only 30 minutes..
Got 4400mhz memory the next day, started tweaking to get them as optimized as i could and after all the testing was done i loaded up pubg and noticed the stutters, nothing visual on hwinfo or afterburner.

Thought it was the memory so spent a bunch of hours trying to wrap my head around the issue until i realized that the only thing i didnt try was setting bckl down to 100 and to my surprise no more stutters. Really wierd since i couldnt see any dropped frames and such. I guess my 3080 didnt like bckl (also tried 101 but na... )

Just a heads up


----------



## Imprezzion

If I get to actually building it this weekend and my radiators actually end up fitting in the Torrent as I planned it out I will give BCLK OC a test on the ol' ASUS B550-A as well.


----------



## BCB57

Owterspace said:


> What are you guys trying to do?
> 
> This is my X3D @ full stock. Some sub timing tweaks that's about it.
> 
> View attachment 2578946


Since you joined the _Overclock - The pursuit of performance _community over 10 years ago, I think you can answer that question! 

Your stock HWiNFO numbers look good for stock, but temps and max voltage are probably higher than they need to be. This forum has a ton of information that could help optimize your X3D's performance even within the constraints set by AMD.


----------



## Owterspace

BCB57 said:


> Since you joined the _Overclock - The pursuit of performance _community over 10 years ago, I think you can answer that question!
> 
> Your stock HWiNFO numbers look good for stock, but temps and max voltage are probably higher than they need to be. This forum has a ton of information that could help optimize your X3D's performance even within the constraints set by AMD.


That is because I ran Linpack to get the PPT up, most everything runs at 60-70 tops. If you notice the global clocks only dropped to 4200. Not bad my 5900X runs it at 4500 and my 5600X runs it at 4600.


----------



## BCB57

Owterspace said:


> That is because I ran Linpack to get the PPT up, most everything runs at 60-70 tops. If you notice the global clocks only dropped to 4200. Not bad my 5900X runs it at 4500 and my 5600X runs it at 4600.


That's good -- I was wondering what the load was.


----------



## Owterspace

BCB57 said:


> That's good -- I was wondering what the load was.


Specifically, the 10GB load


----------



## StevieRay2

Why does -25 CO hit 4550mhz more often than -30 CO? I'm stable and my temps are under 80c, I just rarely see the max single core through out the day and even with Boost Tester than I do with -20 CO


----------



## thesebastian

4i4ymi said:


> Could you check all core usage?


Here you are. I tried to reduce the GPU load as much as possible (low resolution and min graphic settings), but looks like the GPU still has quite a good impact in the max FPS. I use:

AMD CBS > NBIO > SMU > CPPC Enabled
AMD CBS > NBIO > SMU > CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled


----------



## turbosmurf

I just got my 5800x3d last week and have started to improve it a bit. I would greatly appreciate any input on the performance so far. My previous CPU that i overclocked was a 2600k 
I noticed most of you are running lower voltages, so that might be my next step.

*5800x3d
G.Skill 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 3600MHz CL16 Trident Z Neo C
Gigabyte Aorus Ultra x570
PPT 120
TDC 75
EDC 110
Curve -20
Y-cruncher stable around 2 hours, not tested longer*

Big thanks!


----------



## Frikencio

My cores all go up to 4450mhz even in single core usage. Multi core usage is around 4400mhz in Cinebench.

IS that ok?

Cinebench multi does 15200 points.

Oh seems I was runing an older HWINFO and only showerd 4450.3Mhz
Now it shows more than 4550Mhz.


----------



## BCB57

Owterspace said:


> Specifically, the 10GB load


Just ran this:


----------



## Owterspace

Oh you just let it run one iteration? I usually let it go for at least 5-10.


----------



## StevieRay2

Anyone using a Deepcool LS720 with this? Thinking up upgrading my D15s and from reviews it looks like one of the best AIO's, but wonder how good with this CPU


----------



## Blameless

umea said:


> phew, this might be a unique one, but is there any way to run a static all core OC on this chip?  or any level of static OC.


Not really. You can disable CPB and and C-States which will give you a constant clock speed, but one that is significantly below what it will reach stock at pretty much any load.



StevieRay2 said:


> Anyone using a Deepcool LS720 with this? Thinking up upgrading my D15s and from reviews it looks like one of the best AIO's, but wonder how good with this CPU


Don't have any experience with that AIO, but unless your part doesn't handle any negative CO at all, the D15 should be more than sufficient to max out the the boost of the part in most loads.

If you're having issues with the D15, lap it, and the CPU. Noctual cooler bases are slightly convex and most AM4 CPU are slightly, but erratically concave...best unlapped contact is unlikely to be directly over the CCD.



Owterspace said:


> This is my X3D @ full stock.


Snapshot polling is more useful for seeing what the clocks are actually doing.



StevieRay2 said:


> Why does -25 CO hit 4550mhz more often than -30 CO? I'm stable and my temps are under 80c, I just rarely see the max single core through out the day and even with Boost Tester than I do with -20 CO


If this is the behavior of your part, it's likely because the CPU is overboosting and compensating due to -30 CO being too much for all of it's cores.

What do the clocks of heavy multi-core loads look like?


----------



## StevieRay2

Blameless said:


> If this is the behavior of your part, it's likely because the CPU is overboosting and compensating due to -30 CO being too much for all of it's cores.
> 
> What do the clocks of heavy multi-core loads look like?


Using R23 multi and y-cruncher -25 and -30CO seems to be the same and steady 4450mhz sometimes dropping to 4420mhz or lower if I hit over 80c in those tests. But using Boost Tester -30CO never hits 4550, goes to like 4510 at the most while -25CO hits it and also randomly throughout the day some hit the max while -30CO never does. 

As for the D15, it cools well but some games or inbetween games(and when they load etc) the temps(and fans) really ramp up to the mid 70's, meanwhile I see some peoples Youtube videos of the games I play and their temps look like the mid 50's and not even sure if they do -CO


----------



## Imprezzion

She holds pressure! Time to put the rest of the fans in for the dual push pull setup and do the wiring. It's running a 1 hour bleed now with fluid in the loop. 

Unfortunately the tubing is mostly re-used and a little cloudy from age and the old fluid. 

Now running just clear Mayhems X1. Flow is way higher then the old restricted as hell loop.


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> Using R23 multi and y-cruncher -25 and -30CO seems to be the same and steady 4450mhz sometimes dropping to 4420mhz or lower if I hit over 80c in those tests. But using Boost Tester -30CO never hits 4550, goes to like 4510 at the most while -25CO hits it and also randomly throughout the day some hit the max while -30CO never does.
> 
> As for the D15, it cools well but some games or inbetween games(and when they load etc) the temps(and fans) really ramp up to the mid 70's, meanwhile I see some peoples Youtube videos of the games I play and their temps look like the mid 50's and not even sure if they do -CO


Lightly threaded boost is mostly meaningless. It's less than a 2% clock speed bump that only occurs in uncommon circumstances. Unless you need every last ounce of single-threaded performance, you want to prioritize heavier loads.

A good AIO will cool better than a D15, especially if it can be used as an intake and isn't ingesting air that's been heated by the GPU, but it's not likely to translate into better performance if you aren't temp limited in your usual loads.


----------



## StevieRay2

Blameless said:


> Lightly threaded boost is mostly meaningless. It's less than a 2% clock speed bump that only occurs in uncommon circumstances. Unless you need every last ounce of single-threaded performance, you want to prioritize heavier loads.
> 
> A good AIO will cool better than a D15, especially if it can be used as an intake and isn't ingesting air that's been heated by the GPU, but it's not likely to translate into better performance if you aren't temp limited in your usual loads.


If I were to get an AIO now I think I would still want the 2 front case fans as my intake and will put the rad on top exhaust air, would that make quite a big temperature difference than putting it on the front as an intake?


----------



## Blameless

Owterspace said:


> That is because I ran Linpack to get the PPT up, most everything runs at 60-70 tops. If you notice the global clocks only dropped to 4200. Not bad my 5900X runs it at 4500 and my 5600X runs it at 4600.


With my current sample at -30 CO, I saw minimum load frequency of about 4292 without the LCLK bug and 4333 with it:





















StevieRay2 said:


> If I were to get an AIO now I think I would still want the 2 front case fans as my intake and will put the rad on top exhaust air, would that make quite a big temperature difference than putting it on the front as an intake?


Depends on how much total air flow the case has and how much heat other components are dumping into the case. With the rad as intake, the water temp delta will be added to room ambient. With it as exhaust, it will be added to internal case ambient.

Measure the temp at your current front intakes and at the top of the case during a GPU heavy load. That difference is about the difference you'd have you'll have in water temps intake vs. exhaust.


----------



## Owterspace

You guys are spitting out a few more GFlops than me 

I'm going to play with that app, the last time I tried I didn't seem to notice a change, but you have inspired me


----------



## Imprezzion

It's running great on the B550-A so far. It has no issues at all running -30 all core PBO and sustains 4450 all core perfectly fine even in Cinebench R23. It runs around 1.188v SVI2 vCore. Temps mid 70's. 

What is the most effective PPT/EDC/TDC for a 5800X3D at -30 all core? I remember my 5900X performing much better when limits are set properly in stead of just 1000 on all lol. 

I have the best CB R23 scores at EDC 110 TDC 65 PPT 140 so far but maybe you guys know a better combination?


----------



## Blameless

Owterspace said:


> I'm going to play with that app, the last time I tried I didn't seem to notice a change, but you have inspired me


CO tuning should provide sold gains beyond low-medium loads, unless you have extremely good cooling.



Imprezzion said:


> What is the most effective PPT/EDC/TDC for a 5800X3D at -30 all core? I remember my 5900X performing much better when limits are set properly in stead of just 1000 on all lol.
> 
> I have the best CB R23 scores at EDC 110 TDC 65 PPT 140 so far but maybe you guys know a better combination?


It's going to depend on the apps involved. What you see in R23 is probably decent for general use.

Personally, I leave mine at stock/max as I have some loads that already approach those limiters and will lose performance with any meaningful reduction.


----------



## Imprezzion

Blameless said:


> CO tuning should provide sold gains beyond low-medium loads, unless you have extremely good cooling.
> 
> 
> 
> It's going to depend on the apps involved. What you see in R23 is probably decent for general use.
> 
> Personally, I leave mine at stock/max as I have some loads that already approach those limiters and will lose performance with any meaningful reduction.


Aight I'm just about touching the limit (EDC) of what I set up in CB R23.

On another positive note, on BIOS 2803 (1.2.0.7) it just booted 4000 16-16-16 with FCLK/MCLK 1:1 2000 without any issues. Straight up just booted in 1 training cycle and just.. runs. It did not even have a single WHEA in running AIDA64 memory and cache benchmark which usually triggers them very very quickly. I have vSOC at 1.20v, IOD 1.10v, CCD 1.05, VDDP 0.95, CPU 1.8 1.840v just to test. It might run it at much lower voltages but man this is exciting! My 5900X couldn't even do 1900 stable without WHEA let alone 2000+

I'm gonna go and push higher. We'll see where it ends. Man if this does 2066 1:1... 4133 15-16-16-33-252-1T GDM Off should be possible with my DIMM's..


----------



## Blameless

Imprezzion said:


> On another positive note, on BIOS 2803 (1.2.0.7) it just booted 4000 16-16-16 with FCLK/MCLK 1:1 2000 without any issues. Straight up just booted in 1 training cycle and just.. runs. It did not even have a single WHEA in running AIDA64 memory and cache benchmark which usually triggers them very very quickly. I have vSOC at 1.20v, IOD 1.10v, CCD 1.05, VDDP 0.95, CPU 1.8 1.840v just to test. It might run it at much lower voltages but man this is exciting! My 5900X couldn't even do 1900 stable without WHEA let alone 2000+


What's the date code on your sample?


----------



## Imprezzion

Blameless said:


> What's the date code on your sample?


Not a clue. Hopefully the s/n helps.


----------



## Blameless

Imprezzion said:


> Not a clue. Hopefully the s/n helps.


I don't know how to get the precise date code from the serial number.

If you ever pull the cooler, make note of the line just above the serial number on the lid.


----------



## Imprezzion

Blameless said:


> I don't know how to get the precise date code from the serial number.
> 
> If you ever pull the cooler, make note of the line just above the serial number on the lid.


Shame. I probably won't for quite a while. Here it is fully built. Gotta tweak the RGB to be a bit less rainbow barf but still. At least they all work.

Shoving 2 Nemesis GTX's (420+240) in push pull into a Torrent isn't a lot of fun tho. It technically fits the 420 but not really. The rad fits, but there's no room for any fittings or tubing anymore without chopping the top of the case. No big deal, with the top cover on its invisible anyway, but still. And bottom push pull is.. tight.. but it fits. I put a little 2 pin power switch thing on the clr CMOS jumper before I put the rad in otherwise it's impossible to reach that. It comes out the bottom behind the filter and.is mounted in the rear leg of the case hehe.


----------



## KHibs

Hey, I just picked up a 5800X3D from a 5800x. I'm on latest bios ( Msi b550 Carbon wifi )combo 1.2.0.7. 

I'm trying to get my ram back to 3800MHz OC, but kept crashing on start up with older settings. Right now I'm on XMP profile. The ram is ddr4 3600/cl14 and these were my before settings in the pic

Cpu core voltage auto
Vsoc 1.100
VDDP Voltage 0.950
VDDG IOD 1.050
DRAM Voltage 1.500

Can anyone give me a hand where to start?


----------



## Imprezzion

KHibs said:


> Hey, I just picked up a 5800X3D from a 5800x. I'm on latest bios ( Msi b550 Carbon wifi )combo 1.2.0.7.
> 
> I'm trying to get my ram back to 3800MHz OC, but kept crashing on start up with older settings. Right now I'm on XMP profile. The ram is ddr4 3600/cl14 and these were my before settings in the pic
> 
> Cpu core voltage auto
> Vsoc 1.100
> VDDP Voltage 0.950
> VDDG IOD 1.050
> DRAM Voltage 1.500
> 
> Can anyone give me a hand where to start?


Well, what's wrong with just using the old profile again? Was it unstable or? 

I've been playing with the new 5800X3D for a while. This little buddy does -30 all cores just fine and also does 2000 MCLK/FCLK just fine with 4000Mhz RAM. 
Just a very quick and dirty RAM OC testing. The RAM still overheats like the actual fires of hell are burning within it without airflow so I pointed a 120mm fan on it on full speed to eliminate temperature issues. It's on 1.60v as well so that doesn't really help either lol. 
Most of the timings are on Auto, I was just testing to see if I could pull off 4000-14-16-16-32 with these DIMM's.


----------



## KHibs

Imprezzion said:


> Well, what's wrong with just using the old profile again? Was it unstable or?.


I tried, just wouldn't boot, had to reset cmos a few times.


----------



## BCB57

Owterspace said:


> Oh you just let it run one iteration? I usually let it go for at least 5-10.


1st time I ever tried this and I just ran one 16-thread iteration. Noticed your max boost was near 4550 vs 4450, so I assume some of the runs used fewer threads? When you get a chance, please give me your exact parameters so I can run apples-to-apples ... I always like to compare settings and benchmark/stress-test data, as that's helped me to make several improvements.


----------



## Owterspace

BCB57 said:


> please give me your exact parameters so I can run apples-to-apples ..


I was running full stock. All of my settings are visible in hwinfo64


----------



## BCB57

Owterspace said:


> I was running full stock. All of my settings are visible in hwinfo64


I meant for the Linpack test, but I just ran the program again and see there are no stress test options except for the size (10 GB) and number of iterations. I'll try a 5x run next time I do it. I'm wondering how you achieved such high boost frequencies since this appears to be a multicore workload.


----------



## BCB57

Imprezzion said:


> Shame. I probably won't for quite a while. Here it is fully built. Gotta tweak the RGB to be a bit less rainbow barf but still. At least they all work.
> 
> Shoving 2 Nemesis GTX's (420+240) in push pull into a Torrent isn't a lot of fun tho. It technically fits the 420 but not really. The rad fits, but there's no room for any fittings or tubing anymore without chopping the top of the case. No big deal, with the top cover on its invisible anyway, but still. And bottom push pull is.. tight.. but it fits. I put a little 2 pin power switch thing on the clr CMOS jumper before I put the rad in otherwise it's impossible to reach that. It comes out the bottom behind the filter and.is mounted in the rear leg of the case hehe.
> 
> View attachment 2579289


Nice job! Looking forward to some thermal results when available.


----------



## Imprezzion

BCB57 said:


> Nice job! Looking forward to some thermal results when available.


It hits about 78c hottest core at -30 CO in Cinebench R23 looped. Mid 50's to low 60's in games so far.

Haven't played much, still very much troubleshooting some stuff like horrible RAM temps and my GPU is also way way way hotter then it used to be. I'm afraid I either "broke" the TIM contact with the block or messed up something with the water flow or direction through the block or something...


----------



## Frikencio

This CPU thermal is wierd.

I can Cinebench it with an air cooler and it does like 80ºC at 100% load but if I touch the metal cooler itself, it is cool, and blows cool out.

It is like if the CPU is not transfering heat properly?


----------



## Imprezzion

Frikencio said:


> This CPU thermal is wierd.
> 
> I can Cinebench it with an air cooler and it does like 80ºC at 100% load but if I touch the metal cooler itself, it is cool, and blows cool out.
> 
> It is like if the CPU is not transfering heat properly?


It is, that's why a super OP waterloop won't bring any real benefit over some simple air cooler or small AIO. It just cannot in any way transfer the heat any better then it is.
Look, I ain't complaining, the CPU performs insanely well. Just look at this comparison benchmark of my 11900K @ 5.2 all core in Division 2 vs the 5800X3D (with the newer drivers tho). Same graphics settings and same undervolt / overclock curve on the GPU. It's misreporting the usage tho. But it went from 142 to 176.. I mean, my god that's a bigger increase from just a CPU upgrade then a 3080 to 3090 TI upgrade would've gotten me...

11900K:









5800X3D (same OS, same drivers, same GPU OC)


----------



## Frikencio

What Cinebench R23 Score is giving that setup?



Imprezzion said:


> It is, that's why a super OP waterloop won't bring any real benefit over some simple air cooler or small AIO. It just cannot in any way transfer the heat any better then it is.
> Look, I ain't complaining, the CPU performs insanely well. Just look at this comparison benchmark of my 11900K @ 5.2 all core in Division 2 vs the 5800X3D (with the newer drivers tho). Same graphics settings and same undervolt / overclock curve on the GPU. It's misreporting the usage tho. But it went from 142 to 176.. I mean, my god that's a bigger increase from just a CPU upgrade then a 3080 to 3090 TI upgrade would've gotten me...
> 
> 11900K:
> View attachment 2579367
> 
> 
> 5800X3D (same OS, same drivers, same GPU OC)
> View attachment 2579371


----------



## Owterspace

BCB57 said:


> I'm wondering how you achieved such high boost frequencies since this appears to be a multicore workload.


Those were from other benchmarks I had been running. My cores sit at or slightly above 4200 while running Linpack.


----------



## Imprezzion

Frikencio said:


> What Cinebench R23 Score is giving that setup?


About 15080-15100. It holds 4450 the entire test at -30 all core. Effective clocks as well. About 108w power draw 120 EDC 66 TDC measured. All within stock limits. 

I am thinking. Could the higher GPU temps by like 8c be caused by the fact it's actually using the GPU far more and pushing far higher FPS then it used to?

I noticed my otherwise well below power limit curve now just slams into the limit the entire time and even power throttles the frequency. Normally it ran around 1995 @ 0.981v at about 310-315w power draw whereas now it can barely stay under the 345w limit even as low as 1950 @ 0.918v. That extra power draw and the far higher rasterization load and utilization would account for the temperature increase. And of course the loop has lots of air still in it hidden in the rads and such.


----------



## Frikencio

Thanks for that, seems the scores are within the margin of error.

Oh and yeah of course it can be the reason of your higher temps that would be an explanation.


----------



## tabascosauz

Imprezzion said:


> I am thinking. Could the higher GPU temps by like 8c be caused by the fact it's actually using the GPU far more and pushing far higher FPS then it used to?
> 
> I noticed my otherwise well below power limit curve now just slams into the limit the entire time and even power throttles the frequency. Normally it ran around 1995 @ 0.981v at about 310-315w power draw whereas now it can barely stay under the 345w limit even as low as 1950 @ 0.918v. That extra power draw and the far higher rasterization load and utilization would account for the temperature increase. And of course the loop has lots of air still in it hidden in the rads and such.


Not sure about a whole 8C higher........but I did observe a similar power increase on my GPU as well. On the 5900X I had like a grand total of one game that would pull close to 250W, the rest would be around the 200W mark usually. Without changing any video settings, moving to the 5800X3D it's much more willing to pull 230-250W in just about every one of those games. At the same [email protected] or [email protected] as before


----------



## Blameless

Frikencio said:


> It is like if the CPU is not transfering heat properly?


It's not.

Under load, the core to IHS temp delta can easily be 40-50C. You can see this in almost any bench where HWiNFO's temps are revealed. The IOD hotspot is near the center of the IHS and the cooler base can never get hotter than that.

Zen 2/3 have always had extremely high thermal density and poor temp deltas without delidding.

Vermeer-X made this worse by needing an extra thermal interface (the oxide bonding layer that holds the structural support silicon over the cores to get the CCD bad to standard thickness).



Imprezzion said:


> I am thinking. Could the higher GPU temps by like 8c be caused by the fact it's actually using the GPU far more and pushing far higher FPS then it used to?


If you're testing with something other than what was purely GPU bound before, yes.

I'd still check that you're not confusing the outlet and inlet on your GPU block.



Frikencio said:


> What Cinebench R23 Score is giving that setup?


~15300 in a closed (but modified) Lian-Li TU-150 with a Noctua NH-U12A.

_Edit_, current settings, no LCLK bug, 21C ambient:


----------



## Imprezzion

Blameless said:


> If you're testing with something other than what was purely GPU bound before, yes.
> 
> I'd still check that you're not confusing the outlet and inlet on your GPU block.
> 
> 
> 
> ~15300 in a closed (but modified) Lian-Li TU-150 with a Noctua NH-U12A.


I had them the correct way around luckily. The only thing I changed compared to my previous case and setup is the fact I have both in and out on the top side of the block now. I used to have intake on the bottom with a 90 but that doesn't fit now.

The pump also struggles to push the air out of the tubes / radiators. I have done many of the shimmy shakes with the case and burped enough air but still there's a lot left.

And yes, I was testing with Division 2 which is one of the most CPU intensive games that isn't 128 player Battlefield. It easily smashes all threads 70+% constantly on a 11900K. And it responds extremely well to 3D V-Cache.


----------



## Frikencio

I use the NH-D15 and temps get to 80ºC and stay there. Clocks stay around 4350-4450 when loading all cores.


----------



## Puffdotbusiness

Hi I am having trouble setting PPT TDC EDC automatically. In the Actions Tab I have -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 and that works fine but what should be putting in there to set limits?


----------



## Imprezzion

Frikencio said:


> I use the NH-D15 and temps get to 80ºC and stay there. Clocks stay around 4350-4450 when loading all cores.
> 
> View attachment 2579537


Here's mine in Cinebench R23 after getting the loop nice and hot with an hour of Division 2. For now i'm just running a slightly tweaked 1:1 FCLK/MCLK DOCP profile for the RAM (basically DOCP 3600C16 1.35v with 320 tRFC, 12 tWR, 16 tCWL and Power Down disabled. Nothing else). As you see my RAM gets up to 47c on 1.35v already so I have to wait with actually pushing it until my Corsair Dominator Airflow shows up.


----------



## Frikencio

This is 2 hours of gaming and videos on the side (max values are from a CB run). Ram is actually 3200 but OCed it a bit to 3600.
RAM hovers around 47ºC. Note that I use 4 sticks of RAM that get heated from the GPU aswell.

I think you can lower VSOC a bit like I did to get less heat maybe.


----------



## Thunderc8

ManniX-ITA said:


> Please use the camera button top dx in Zentimings next time to take a screenshot
> 
> Yes you need to set the FCLK.
> Desync is only worth for benchmarking.
> You need to set 1900 FCLK and 3800 MHz RAM and check it works.
> Otherwise you need to go down if you have the hole.
> 
> You also need a good profile for you Samsung b-die DR at 3800 MHz.
> Depends which voltage you want to run.
> Decide what is the voltage you are willing to run daily and ask for a profile around that.
> 
> This profile is very though and needs 1.56V in BIOS for VDIMM.
> I don't use any special cooling.
> 
> View attachment 2578758
> 
> 
> It should work on your kit pretty easy but you have to check.
> 
> You don't need VDDP at 1.100 for 3800 MHz, set it at 0.900.
> Also set VSOC at 1.1V cause 1.0V is too low.


I just copied your settings on my G.Skill 3200 CL14 and they work fine passed 6 hours memtest and 2 hours PUBG gaming. PUBG along with my Creative sound blaster virtual suround are the best bench, they always make my rams fail even when i have stress tested my RAMs for 23 hours.
Ill stay like that for a week and ill start lowering my volts.


----------



## turbosmurf

Puffdotbusiness said:


> Hi I am having trouble setting PPT TDC EDC automatically. In the Actions Tab I have -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 and that works fine but what should be putting in there to set limits?


Why not just set it in BIOS?


----------



## Blameless

Frikencio said:


> I use the NH-D15 and temps get to 80ºC and stay there. Clocks stay around 4350-4450 when loading all cores.
> 
> View attachment 2579537


That's an even larger core to IOD delta that I would expect. Might not be making best contact outside the center of the IHS.


----------



## StevieRay2

Blameless said:


> That's an even larger core to IOD delta that I would expect. Might not be making best contact outside the center of the IHS.


Same cooler as me that's what mine looks like in R23 multi right now, 78c and 36c hotspot


----------



## Puffdotbusiness

turbosmurf said:


> Why not just set it in BIOS?


I don’t think my motherboard supports this. Asrock x570i.


----------



## BCB57

turbosmurf said:


> Why not just set it in BIOS?


Most BIOSes lack these adjustments for the X3D. I'm using a modded bios to get them.


----------



## AXi0M

Welp, decided to do an OS reinstall since my windows 10 was about 2 years old. Made the "wise" decision to give windows 11 a try and now my L3 Cache latency is ~13.5ns whether normal boot or in safe mode. is this a W11 22H2 feature? or just me?


----------



## BCB57

Owterspace said:


> You guys are spitting out a few more GFlops than me
> 
> I'm going to play with that app, the last time I tried I didn't seem to notice a change, but you have inspired me


Here's the 5x 10GB run I've been meaning to do. The Gflops are underwhelming but I'm happy with the HWiNFO numbers; Tdie peaks into the 80s were very brief spikes toward the end of each run. I may try lessening my undervolt a bit to see what happens.


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> Same cooler as me that's what mine looks like in R23 multi right now, 78c and 36c hotspot


That while looping the test or a single run?

What curve values and SoC voltage? Also, what core clocks were you seeing?


----------



## StevieRay2

Blameless said:


> That while looping the test or a single run?
> 
> What curve values and SoC voltage? Also, what core clocks were you seeing?


Single run, -30CO, SOC .99, Clocks are 4420-4450


----------



## Frikencio

I use a R9 laptop and it shows how much better is to run the CPU delided...


----------



## Owterspace

BCB57 said:


> Here's the 5x 10GB run I've been meaning to do. The Gflops are underwhelming but I'm happy with the HWiNFO numbers; Tdie peaks into the 80s were very brief spikes toward the end of each run. I may try lessening my undervolt a bit to see what happens.
> View attachment 2579595


We aren't too far off, at least we are on the right track. I ended up picking up almost 20 GFlops


----------



## JBG84

I'm wondering. How does the 5800X3D perform at PhysX calculations, verse it's sibling the original 5800X? As I'm pondering that yes, the 5800X3D provides generally higher frames in most games.... but if those games used PhysX simulated physics elements extensively (and the user without an nVidia GPU), would the original 5800X fair better?

Myself with the latest version of FluidMark (1.5.4) I ran the 1080 Benchmark Preset with default settings on (PhysX built in CPU multicore) to test my 5800X @ 4.95GHz PBO. I score between 3950-4050 points. Be very curious as to the comparable average 5800X3D score 🤔

_Edit: The FluidMark score is with SMT turned OFF. Turned on score is around 3300'ish_


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> Single run, -30CO, SOC .99, Clocks are 4420-4450


Not far off my sample, and the temp throttle point for the cores should be the same.

My IOD is getting about 3C hotter in R23, so the difference is not huge, but I do suspect your unlapped cooler is resulting higher pressure at the center of the IHS than the area around the cores. Probably not a big deal.



Frikencio said:


> I use a R9 laptop and it shows how much better is to run the CPU delided...
> View attachment 2579657


Delidding does provide large benefits on Vermeer, but you can't compare a multi-chiplet part with a monolithic APU part on a laptop, where everything is on the same die and the total power density is far lower.


----------



## Blameless

JBG84 said:


> I'm wondering. How does the 5800X3D perform at PhysX calculations, verse it's sibling the original 5800X? As I'm pondering that yes, the 5800X3D provides generally higher frames in most games.... but if those games used PhysX simulated physics elements extensively (and the user without an nVidia GPU), would the original 5800X fair better?
> 
> Myself with the latest version of FluidMark (1.5.4) I ran the 1080 Benchmark Preset with default settings on (PhysX built in CPU multicore) to test my 5800X @ 4.95GHz PBO. I score between 3950-4050 points. Be very curious as to the comparable average 5800X3D score 🤔


The default benchmark only gave me ~2850. I don't have PhysX installed on this system though.

_Edit:_ Installed the latest PhysX software and am now getting ~3400.

Regardless, there should not be such a massive differential from a 12% CPU clock advantage. Something else must be at work here.


----------



## Frikencio

This Part is 8 core, I assumed it was 1 chiplet. When I changed the cooler the die size was very big. It had no chiplet visible.












Blameless said:


> Not far off my sample, and the temp throttle point for the cores should be the same.
> 
> My IOD is getting about 3C hotter in R23, so the difference is not huge, but I do suspect your unlapped cooler is resulting higher pressure at the center of the IHS than the area around the cores. Probably not a big deal.
> 
> 
> 
> Delidding does provide large benefits on Vermeer, but you can't compare a multi-chiplet part with a monolithic APU part on a laptop, where everything is on the same die and the total power density is far lower.


----------



## Blameless

Frikencio said:


> This Part is 8 core, I assumed it was 1 chiplet. When I changed the cooler the die size was very big. It had no chiplet visible.
> 
> View attachment 2579744


That's because it's Cezanne not Vermeer.

It's a monolithic part; there is no separate IOD or CCD, the CCX and all the SoC components are on the same die.


----------



## Jabdah

Blameless said:


> That's because it's Cezanne not Vermeer.
> 
> It's a monolithic part; there is no separate IOD or CCD, the CCX and all the SoC components are on the same die.



LMAO 

Integrated Thermal Performance Booster ... my best laugh in 2022 so far )) thx


----------



## Frikencio

Ops I thought they were the "same" CPU.



Blameless said:


> That's because it's Cezanne not Vermeer.
> 
> It's a monolithic part; there is no separate IOD or CCD, the CCX and all the SoC components are on the same die.


----------



## BCB57

Owterspace said:


> We aren't too far off, at least we are on the right track. I ended up picking up almost 20 GFlops
> 
> View attachment 2579668
> 
> 
> View attachment 2579669
> 
> 
> View attachment 2579670


Looks great! You've got excellent memory speed and timings there. My CB23 results are similar, but you are well ahead on the Linpack numbers so I'm thinking memory plays a significant role there.


----------



## Frikencio

Where can I download the linpack benchmark you are using and that Cinebench separate Windows that tells your score?


----------



## BCB57

Frikencio said:


> Where can I download the linpack benchmark you are using and that Cinebench separate Windows that tells your score?


I just Googled "Linpack" and downloaded it from a site I trust... think it was TechPowerUp. Used Windows snipping tool for the CB23 result screenshot.


----------



## Owterspace

Frikencio said:


> Where can I download the linpack benchmark you are using and that Cinebench separate Windows that tells your score?


Linpack 1.15 can be had from TPU, and Benchmate is what you are asking about.


----------



## Frikencio

@Owterspace what are your RAM voltages? I have B-Die and anything above 3600 gives me memtest errors.


----------



## Owterspace

Frikencio said:


> @Owterspace what are your RAM voltages? I have B-Die and anything above 3600 gives me memtest errors.


Voltage is up there, closer to 1.6v.


----------



## Imprezzion

Frikencio said:


> @Owterspace what are your RAM voltages? I have B-Die and anything above 3600 gives me memtest errors.


Does your RAM have temperature sensors? B-Die hates heat. If the timings are very tight and close to the edge of stability anything over ~48c can throw errors. 

Just try something really loose like 3800/3866 16-17-17-37-53-304-2T, rest Auto with GDM off or 16-18-18-38-54-320 with GDM on at like, 1.50v vDIMM or something. That will at least allow you to test whether they can handle the frequency.


----------



## Frikencio

I Will stick with 1.42v at 3600 then. My mem would Heat a Lot with those voltages.

@Imprezzion yes they have temp sensors. Stability IS not related to temp in my case. I booted fine at 3800 but with errors in memtest.


----------



## Owterspace

Frikencio said:


> My mem would Heat a Lot with those voltages.


A little airflow goes a long way, trust me


----------



## Frikencio

Is this score right?


----------



## Owterspace

Looks like it.


----------



## Frikencio

Why does it say 8 threads?










Ohh silly me this was with -0 CO. Testing -30 now.



Owterspace said:


> Looks like it.


----------



## Frikencio

This is what I get with my setup.










Cinebench R23


----------



## Owterspace

I was up in the 339-340 range too, not sure what happened


----------



## MrHoof

Thats what I can get with my setup in linpack but my CPU sample is not great, my core 4 is below avg and pulling all core loads down. (core4 needs -8 CO to not crash in n64 and its not one of the best corese its 7/8)
Those bechmarks are done with with -30 so not 100% stable.








and y cruncher 2.5b


----------



## JBG84

Blameless said:


> The default benchmark only gave me ~2850. I don't have PhysX installed on this system though.
> 
> _Edit:_ Installed the latest PhysX software and am now getting ~3400.
> 
> Regardless, there should not be such a massive differential from a 12% CPU clock advantage. Something else must be at work here.


Hi Blameless 

Wow okay that is interesting the boost you got from installing the PhysX SDK. Yeah I don't have it installed either, am curious now will have to look in to that as well. Also you may find a significant increase if you disable SMT (sorry forgot that detail in original posting). Your 3400 is a great score given the lower all-core clocks of the X 3D (around 4.4GHz?). Try it with SMT off, you may be quite surprised! Please let me know how you go.


----------



## reantum

CPPC and cppc preferred Auto + PSS DISABLED.

Without Windows Services and iCue, i got 15800pts.


----------



## StevieRay2

Just got my RAM, what do you guys use to test new RAM? should I run memtest in dos all night at stock then again with xmp for errors then use Windows programs like TestMem5 with Anta777 Extreme to test my tuning that I will do after?


----------



## Jabdah

@StevieRay2
tbh, thats sounds like paranoia for me... just let them run @ XMP and test the system... play some games... maybe some benchmarks..you bought a gaming CPU, not an OC overkill CPU.

If it works, do some tweaks... and so on, repeat the same procedure till you find the " CMOS Clear Button "  Running benchmarks for ages is, if u ask me, useless.

btw, my best 3dmark score ever was with 3600 RAM @ stock settings.... ( with 5800X3D and RTX card )


----------



## Blameless

JBG84 said:


> Hi Blameless
> 
> Wow okay that is interesting the boost you got from installing the PhysX SDK. Yeah I don't have it installed either, am curious now will have to look in to that as well. Also you may find a significant increase if you disable SMT (sorry forgot that detail in original posting). Your 3400 is a great score given the lower all-core clocks of the X 3D (around 4.4GHz?). Try it with SMT off, you may be quite surprised! Please let me know how you go.


After a closer look I'm not sure the PhysX software was responsible for the boost; run to run variance seems quite extreme, especially with SMT enabled.

With SMT disabled I'm getting 3700-3800, which seems more reasonable given the clock differential (4.45GHz here).


----------



## JimWindy

Hi All, just upgraded my 5900X to the X3D. Looking to get advice from any Asus (Dark Hero) owners
I seem to be bottlenecked somewhere with my CPUZ Multi 6250 and Single 585-595.
When i run PBO Tuner all -30 i get 6380 Multi and 600 Single core.
its on a custom loop all watercooled so single core certainly not affected by temps. Just doesnt seem to be boosting all the way.
BIOS: 1.2.0.6B (i downgraded from 7, no change) CPPC & CPPC Preferred (On or Off doesnt make a diff) - C-States Enabled, Core Boost Enabled, Ram DOCP Profile.
I didnt alter SMT yet, that could be an issue?
I was expecting and from most, should be 630 single core realistically. Any thoughts?


















VCore Max at 1.112 and Temps Max at 66degrees. 
Max Freq caps at 4500
.


----------



## Frikencio

-30 CO, VCORE Auto, 1.025 VSOC, 3600 CL14 DDR4

All BIOS settings except RAM timings and VSOC are Auto.
I don't really think CPUz is a good benchmark.
Use it only when you have everything else closed.

(My motherboard is your motherboard's grandfather, Asus Crosshair VI Hero)










When benchmarking all core, they should be all 4450Mhz until you reach 75ºC, it starts regulating very slowly, 4430, 4425Mhz.... When it reaches 80ºC, it tends to want to stay at 80ºC and then lower the clocks to sustain that temperature, for example to 4400Mhz, always depending on cooling.










When doing 1 core benchmark, it should go up to 4550Mhz using your strongest cores at least in non AVX workloads.











Are you on Windows 10 or Windows 11?


----------



## JBG84

Blameless said:


> After a closer look I'm not sure the PhysX software was responsible for the boost; run to run variance seems quite extreme, especially with SMT enabled.
> 
> With SMT disabled I'm getting 3700-3800, which seems more reasonable given the clock differential (4.45GHz here).


Kool. For reference I locked my 5800X to 4.45Ghz and on three runs (3743, 3736, 3772) averaged to 3750.

My usual setup runs the FluidMark 1080 bench around 4.75GHz all-core, roughly 6% higher which would equate to a 3975 score. So fairly linear scaling experienced.

Limited sample size, but this suggest the 3D cache unlikely will aid in moments of CPU rendered gaming PhysX simulations. Doesn't detract either.

Thanks for your help  I do play a lot of 'Hell Let Loose'. It uses PhysX and any time there is a big explosion or bombing run, my FPS drops bad. Have been wondering what benefit (if any) the 3D cache may provide (FluidMark/PhysX something not discussed by the reviewer community broadly).


----------



## JBG84

So the X3D has the CPU clock multiplier locked. Is the Front Side Bus also locked to 100MHz?


----------



## Frosted racquet

No, it's possible to do BCLK OC


----------



## JBG84

Frosted racquet said:


> No, it's possible to do BCLK OC


Okay. Almost no one seems to do so (from screenshots posted). Issues?

I mean it's a little more work. You have to manage and adjust your Fclk (infinity fabric) and RAM clock. 

I remember back in the 'ol days of the Athlon 64 era, you could push the Bus clock quite high to bypass the CPU multiplier lock. Basically the bread 'n' butter of overclocking those days. I used to run a 130-140Mhz bus, I know others pushed 150+. 

I also know with the integration of the North Bridge on to the CPU die, that brought the PCIe on-board and created a hurdle on pushing the FSB/Bclk on Intel systems (unaware of the AM4 platform as to date almost everything has been 'unlocked' thus not necessary).


----------



## StevieRay2

JBG84 said:


> Okay. Almost no one seems to do so (from screenshots posted). Issues?
> 
> I mean it's a little more work. You have to manage and adjust your Fclk (infinity fabric) and RAM clock.
> 
> I remember back in the 'ol days of the Athlon 64 era, you could push the Bus clock quite high to bypass the CPU multiplier lock. Basically the bread 'n' butter of overclocking those days. I used to run a 130-140Mhz bus, I know others pushed 150+.
> 
> I also know with the integration of the North Bridge on to the CPU die, that brought the PCIe on-board and created a hurdle on pushing the FSB/Bclk on Intel systems (unaware of the AM4 platform as to date almost everything has been 'unlocked' thus not necessary).


Gaining 100-150mhz doesn't really do much in games and it just adds more heat and potentially other issues etc


----------



## Frosted racquet

BCLK OC will potentially destabilize PCIe/Sata devices, not something you want to risk for small gains, although there are people willing to go the extra mile.


----------



## JBG84

BJT1000 said:


> Hello I've just signed up here and wondering if anyone may have come across the same issue I'm having. My machine runs 100% stable from boot up, until it wakes from sleep where it will sometimes hard reset randomly, I have a scheduled task running PBO2 upon wake. I'm running:
> all core -30 114 75 115
> Global c states - Enabled
> CPPC Preferred Cores - Disabled
> CPPC - Enabled
> RAM and Infinity at 3766/1866
> Stock voltages apart from RAM which is fine at 1.4v
> Completely fresh wipe/install of Windows 10
> No WHEA hardware errors reported at all
> Have run corecycler on each core for an hour individually and every core boosts to 4550 with HWInfo on snapshot mode without a single error.
> Hottest temperature for any core gets to is 65c - most around 62c under full load (AIO 360 cooler with Kryonaut Extreme thermal paste)
> I don't understand what is causing the instability after wake? It can sometimes go for an hour without issue and then reset when its just idle? Never once happened after a fresh boot though.
> 
> Any ideas?


Make sure 'SoC/Uncore OC Mode' is disabled in BIOS. You should see an improvement in wake-from-sleep stability.


----------



## JimWindy

Frikencio said:


> -30 CO, VCORE Auto, 1.025 VSOC, 3600 CL14 DDR4
> 
> All BIOS settings except RAM timings and VSOC are Auto.
> I don't really think CPUz is a good benchmark.
> Use it only when you have everything else closed.
> 
> (My motherboard is your motherboard's grandfather, Asus Crosshair VI Hero)
> 
> View attachment 2579880
> 
> 
> When benchmarking all core, they should be all 4450Mhz until you reach 75ºC, it starts regulating very slowly, 4430, 4425Mhz.... When it reaches 80ºC, it tends to want to stay at 80ºC and then lower the clocks to sustain that temperature, for example to 4400Mhz, always depending on cooling.
> 
> View attachment 2579884
> 
> 
> When doing 1 core benchmark, it should go up to 4550Mhz using your strongest cores at least in non AVX workloads.
> 
> View attachment 2579885
> 
> 
> 
> Are you on Windows 10 or Windows 11?



Thank you, im on Windows 10.
I can see your EDC is much above mine (113 vs 130) so could be a power issue. 
It doesnt take all cores to 4450, it goes to 4445 etc, but nothing is maxed, temps, PPT, EDC, TDC


----------



## JBG84

Frosted racquet said:


> BCLK OC will potentially destabilize PCIe/Sata devices, not something you want to risk for small gains, although there are people willing to go the extra mile.


Yes, there are some of us who enjoy our computers more when they are not working than when they are 🤪

I just did a quick test myself with 5800X (non-3D). Booted and passed Cinebench R23 with 104MHz bus, however 106MHz was boot failure. No additional stability testing, but if the 104MHz bus holds true...that's still almost 200MHz potential gain across 8 cores. Not to be snuffed at.


----------



## elderblaze

upgraded my system from a poor sample 5900x. Bad CO curve values. Anyways running this new 5800X3D at -30 all core, 3600 Mhz Memory, 16/18/18/18 timings (it's not great ram). With CPPC enabled and preferred cores disabled. I run a NHD15 cooler.

CB23 Multi score is 15100, max temp 79C.
Gaming temps seem to be 60-75 depending on application

Small FFT steady load will 90C my system in about 15 seconds, clocks drop down to 4300 mhz, with "average effective clock" stating 4020 mhz.

Average effective clock in CB23 is reported as 4170, to me they fluctuate between 4400 and 4450, often times being around 4425.

I have attempted to use HWinfo with AMD snapshot enabled, but can't make the program show my clock speeds when this option is turned on.

I have observed cores boosting to 4550 in single core workloads/daily usage.

Observed 4-5C lower temps from CO-30 as well as higher clocks under extreme workloads. Cores seem to boost 4550 more often

Does all the above numbers look decent?


----------



## Frikencio

Yeah, this seems like what almost all of us are getting. Should not worry about it much more, this is a gaming CPU and gaming workloads will always run under temp limit and CPU will be able to perform as it was designed to.



elderblaze said:


> upgraded my system from a poor sample 5900x. Bad CO curve values. Anyways running this new 5800X3D at -30 all core, 3600 Mhz Memory, 16/18/18/18 timings (it's not great ram). With CPPC enabled and preferred cores disabled. I run a NHD15 cooler.
> 
> CB23 Multi score is 15100, max temp 79C.
> Gaming temps seem to be 60-75 depending on application
> 
> Small FFT steady load will 90C my system in about 15 seconds, clocks drop down to 4300 mhz, with "average effective clock" stating 4020 mhz.
> 
> Average effective clock in CB23 is reported as 4170, to me they fluctuate between 4400 and 4450, often times being around 4425.
> 
> I have attempted to use HWinfo with AMD snapshot enabled, but can't make the program show my clock speeds when this option is turned on.
> 
> Does all the above numbers look decent?


----------



## Imprezzion

I tried to BCLK OC on my B550-A just for the fun of it but as soon as I touch BCLK it stops boosting all together. It ran at like, 36 multiplier the entire time. Weird.. it booted 102.3 just fine tho.


----------



## Blameless

JBG84 said:


> So the X3D has the CPU clock multiplier locked. Is the Front Side Bus also locked to 100MHz?


Strictly speaking, there hasn't been a front-side bus since K7.

You can adjust the BCLK, but since there is no PCI-E lock, this increases the clock speed of the interface most I/O on the platform uses.

Few people do it because even an extra 1-2MHz on BLCK has a fairly serious risk of data corruption.



JBG84 said:


> I just did a quick test myself with 5800X (non-3D). Booted and passed Cinebench R23 with 104MHz bus, however 106MHz was boot failure. No additional stability testing, but if the 104MHz bus holds true...that's still almost 200MHz potential gain across 8 cores. Not to be snuffed at.


Cinebench has no meaningful I/O load.


----------



## mike7877

Hi everyone! First post in the 5800X3D owners. I think. Because I'm a new owner!
I just started configuring the BIOS:


















I need to be reminded why bus overclocking isn't common, especially on the 5800X3D which has very few options when it comes to increasing performance past stock...

Sandy Bridge, January 2011 through April 2012, was the first CPU made with its BCLK "required" to be left at 100). But! Even the motherboard auto-overclocking features, early on, too, increased BCLK to 103-103.5 routinely. If a chip was limited to 4700MHz with 100BCLK and 47x multiplier, often increasing BCLK to the mid 102s could get you up to 4800MHz or more, with better memory performance, too.

Anyway, in the benchmark I ran right after Windows installation and updates, and the BIOS update to the most recent version (one that came out after the X3D's launch, one which allowed >3300MHz operation...), I was getting 604 single core. Now I'm getting 634 - 5%!!. I did also enable some other setting in the BIOS which might've helped too (it was something said to be for performance, had the settings of 1, 2 or 3 and I set 3. But IDK which "performance" settings are any more than place holders anymore because X3D.

I've previously come to know that 604 is a lower score for a stock 5800X3D. Keep in mind I haven't really optimized anything yet in the BIOS - even the RAM is still at 2133 (1066MHz). I did that one setting I saw which looked promising, and I also changed 100MHz to 102.3 to test a just over 100MHz bump at 4500MHz (peak is now 4,655 instead of 4550 ).
Once everything's done I'm hoping for a >660 single core CPU score

Anyway, so why is it that many people aren't doing bus clock increases? Instability? I just read Blameless's post right before this one and he says a reason is data can get corrupted. Can this be tested for easily with existing tools, or no? How likely is it at a 2.3% increase? Which part of the chip is it that starts breaking data? Is it one which we can increase voltage to (NB etc.)?


----------



## mike7877

Got it up from 604 to 620 by (I think) increasing my RAM speed from 2133 (1066) to 3866 (1933). Now if Iadd back the 2.3MHz to the bus clock I should be able to get back my +34 (maybe +35 now..) single core points. I'll be sitting at 655!

I forget where I was exactly 10 minutes ago, I think Quora - I saw this guy saying he runs his BCLK at 110MHz! 

I was thinking... one of the things I did in the BIOS was change the loadline calibration from auto to 6 (MSI board), and peak CPU voltage seems to have risen ~0.02 to 0.03V.

@Blameless do you think it is likely data corruption from BCLK overclocking can be overcome with a bit of voltage? I think I remember hearing a product engineer say that the cache they use on the 5800X3Ds is good up to 1.3V. The + 0.03 only brought the voltage up to 1.248V, so theoretically I should be able to set loadline to 3 or maybe even 2 to increase voltage to the upper 1.2s.


----------



## Frikencio

I don't think OC in this chip is worth it. If you want raw performance you should have chosen 5950X instead of 5800X3D.


----------



## icehotshot

Frikencio said:


> I don't think OC in this chip is worth it. If you want raw performance you should have chosen 5950X instead of 5800X3D.


Totally agree. This chip is made for gaming only.

I've also noticed if I use CO I get higher benchmark scores like cpuz/r23 but lower FPS while gaming so I just leave mine at stock settings.


----------



## Frikencio

-CO Should work with everything.



icehotshot said:


> Totally agree. This chip is made for gaming only.
> 
> I've also noticed if I use CO I get higher benchmark scores like cpuz/r23 but lower FPS while gaming so I just leave mine at stock settings.


----------



## Blameless

mike7877 said:


> @Blameless do you think it is likely data corruption from BCLK overclocking can be overcome with a bit of voltage?


No, because the source of most related corruption is going to be at the drive controller level. Things like NVMe and SATA interfaces usually get their reference clocks directly from the PCI-E clock.

Surely there are some controllers that are more tolerant of being run out of spec than others, but this is not something frequently addressed or tested for.


----------



## Frikencio

Played with BCLK with other systems and always ends up with not detecting my NVMe if going above 101 or 102.



Blameless said:


> No, because the source of most related corruption is going to be at the drive controller level. Things like NVMe and SATA interfaces usually get their reference clocks directly from the PCI-E clock.
> 
> Surely there are some controllers that are more tolerant of being run out of spec than others, but this is not something frequently addressed or tested for.


----------



## icehotshot

Frikencio said:


> -CO Should work with everything.


Well the higher my cpuz/r23 scores get using CO, the lower my fps goes in PUBG. It's not much, but like 10-20 fps.


----------



## Frikencio

Makes no sense if you are stable and under temp limit.

0 to -30CO the difference is in the power consumption and temps mainly in my game. (And +5fps)












icehotshot said:


> Well the higher my cpuz/r23 scores get using CO, the lower my fps goes in PUBG. It's not much, but like 10-20 fps.


----------



## Imprezzion

I can boot bclk up to 103.4 just fine with it properly detecting my M.2's (they are only 3.0 drives tho) and GPU (4.0) for 4600Mhz however it still won't actually boost at all with any BCLK that isn't Auto. It's like the BIOS just locks it to 35.5 or 36 multiplier for some reason. Even with -30 CO it just runs 37xxMhz with 1.000v and single core doesn't boost either.

Do I have to turn stuff off like CPPC, Preferred Cores, ASUS Performance Enhancement or something else to make it work?


----------



## mike7877

Imprezzion said:


> I can boot bclk up to 103.4 just fine with it properly detecting my M.2's (they are only 3.0 drives tho) and GPU (4.0) for 4600Mhz however it still won't actually boost at all with any BCLK that isn't Auto. It's like the BIOS just locks it to 35.5 or 36 multiplier for some reason. Even with -30 CO it just runs 37xxMhz with 1.000v and single core doesn't boost either.
> 
> Do I have to turn stuff off like CPPC, Preferred Cores, ASUS Performance Enhancement or something else to make it work?


I'm not sure how to answer your question but I'm also raising my BCLK a bit for a small performance boost - my board didn't give me the problem you're having.


----------



## Frikencio

I get memory Blue screen in Windows even at 102. (Memory management) and wierd Flicker in screen.


----------



## BCB57

Frikencio said:


> I get memory Blue screen in Windows even at 102. (Memory management) and wierd Flicker in screen.


I'm almost guaranteed to bluescreen within a day even at 100.1! Have tried a few times.


----------



## Frosted racquet

Out of curiosity, would an NVMe SSD get higher scores in benchmarks when doing BCLK OC? In theory yes if it's limited by the PCIe link, correct?


----------



## mike7877

Blameless said:


> No, because the source of most related corruption is going to be at the drive controller level. Things like NVMe and SATA interfaces usually get their reference clocks directly from the PCI-E clock.
> 
> Surely there are some controllers that are more tolerant of being run out of spec than others, but this is not something frequently addressed or tested for.


I imagine adding 0.05V to the supply of the X570S would take care of issues on the host side of things if they exist. I started writing out why I'm pretty sure they don't, but I stopped because I saw I was just saying the same thing different ways: chipsets are extremely basic and their manufacturing is extremely advanced - so advanced that there's no way 5%-10% extra bandwidth isn't available, especially on their external IO side. 

Am I right in looking at BCLK of all Intel systems since Sandy Bridge and all AMD systems since Zen the same way? This way: BCLK should stay at exactly 100MHz, or unexpected, unintended consequences may occur because onboard/installed devices x, y, z, a, b, d, and e are all tied to it, and one or more of them may not run properly at the increased speed (or something you plug into any one of them might not be capable of the increased speed)? If I'm right that they all share about the same risk, I'm not worried about the 2.3MHz increase I want to do for the turbo to reach 100MHz higher. Since I just found out that load line calibration works on the 5800X3D, I'm thinking of possibly doing a 4.6MHz increase. As long as all associated components tolerate it. The chip reached over 1.30V, and there's still another 0.025-0.035V available if I increase load line. Voltage initially for boost was 1.18-1.22V, and I doubt an entire 0.1V would be needed for just 200MHz. 

4.75GHz would be faster than the vanilla 5800X!

The NVMe drives I'm probably using will be 970 Evo Pluses - very mature products and more likely than most to handle increased speeds without complaining, and there isn't much else. GPU and networking, a USB sound card...


----------



## Nighthog

Been mostly fine @ 102.5 this past week, but it doesn't like cold boot for some reason. Usually have to reboot once before I can use it as it is with current settings. Gonna try and tweak voltages around if it can be fixed but haven't found a adjustment to have an effect on it yet that was a total success.
My Audio crackle was lessened with increasing VDD 1.800V again this time rather than the other voltages.
Though running 2050Mhz FCLK introduces issues outside of only BCLK increases.
Seems BCLK makes FCLK harder to stabilize in general rather than just increasing the multiplier. There is a more prelevant notice of the other bus interconnect issues with the BCLK adjustments even if you don't push FLCK as high as with only multiplier control.


----------



## mike7877

Frosted racquet said:


> Out of curiosity, would an NVMe SSD get higher scores in benchmarks when doing BCLK OC? In theory yes if it's limited by the PCIe link, correct?


Yes, and maybe even if it wasn't!


----------



## MrHoof

Imprezzion said:


> I can boot bclk up to 103.4 just fine with it properly detecting my M.2's (they are only 3.0 drives tho) and GPU (4.0) for 4600Mhz however it still won't actually boost at all with any BCLK that isn't Auto. It's like the BIOS just locks it to 35.5 or 36 multiplier for some reason. Even with -30 CO it just runs 37xxMhz with 1.000v and single core doesn't boost either.
> 
> Do I have to turn stuff off like CPPC, Preferred Cores, ASUS Performance Enhancement or something else to make it work?


My Asus board behaves the same but even worse I have to BIOS reset to go back to 100mhz bclk cause it wont boot anymore if i set it back to 100mhz.


----------



## Imprezzion

MrHoof said:


> My Asus board behaves the same but even worse I have to BIOS reset to go back to 100mhz bclk cause it wont boot anymore if i set it back to 100mhz.


I specifically put a switch on the bottom of the case that's connected to the clr_cmos jumper for this. I can hit it with my toes and don't have to open the case or reach behind the bottom rad to find the clr_cmos. 










I'm going to test some more memory oc's. 4000C16 memory and 2000 FCLK works without whea errors but it random froze a few times so I might have to do some tuning there. Going for 3933 /1966 now with hopefully lower voltages.


----------



## Frikencio

Where do you watch whea errors? I watch the hwinfo errors and every time I am super unstable It says 0 errors but memtest (hci memtest, 1 instance pero thread) throws errors.


----------



## Frosted racquet

Then it's a memory error not an Infinity Fabric instability ie WHEA 19


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, it passed my first hour of TM5.. but it took a LOT of VDDG voltage to stop the 2-3 WHEA's per 10 minutes it got at Auto.
Primary timings are not super tight but that's because of the 53c dimm temps. It doesn't like 14-15-15 above 47c lol. I am however quite surprised to see it handle 256 / 130ns tRFC at 53c so far.. 1T CMD GDM Off is hopeless at 3933. It kinda sorta runs it at 3733/3800 but anything over that is not possible without GDM.

vDIMM as usual on ASUS boards does not report in ZenTimings nor HWiNFO64 so. It's at 1.5400v. Once I get my Dominator Airflow's in i'll go back to 14-15-15 or even straight 14's at 1.61v again.


----------



## Frikencio

So if I cant pass memtest but have 0 WHEA, then my sticks are asking for more voltage but the CPU can handle the speed ?

Can't the IMC be unstable while IF is ?



Frosted racquet said:


> Then it's a memory error not an Infinity Fabric instability ie WHEA 19


----------



## Imprezzion

Frikencio said:


> So if I cant pass memtest but have 0 WHEA, then my sticks are asking for more voltage but the CPU can handle the speed ?
> 
> Can't the IMC be unstable while IF is ?


Technically yes but that is so rare... If no WHEA but memtest fails, read the error description here and fix accordingly (Data 0.7b tab)





Ryzen Google Calculator! - Google Drive







docs.google.com





TM5 can pass just fine btw while getting WHEA errors. I passed 3 hours at 4000C16 while getting like 27 WHEA's..


----------



## Mobie

Any difference between -30 CO and set CPU @1.15V?
i found better temps while i set to 1.15V in game 
im using ASUS X570i


----------



## Blameless

mike7877 said:


> The NVMe drives I'm probably using will be 970 Evo Pluses - very mature products and more likely than most to handle increased speeds without complaining


Something you'd have to test, which could take a while. Most consumer SSD are rated for a non-recoverable read error less often than once per petabyte.


----------



## MrHoof

Imprezzion said:


> I specifically put a switch on the bottom of the case that's connected to the clr_cmos jumper for this. I can hit it with my toes and don't have to open the case or reach behind the bottom rad to find the clr_cmos.
> 
> View attachment 2580057
> 
> 
> I'm going to test some more memory oc's. 4000C16 memory and 2000 FCLK works without whea errors but it random froze a few times so I might have to do some tuning there. Going for 3933 /1966 now with hopefully lower voltages.


Had one installed also for a while, a old power switch cable from and old case. But at this point I know what this motherboard does not like and also my RAMs limits so I dont really have to reset it anymore.
My "ROG" board does not even report VDIMM in BIOS just SET. I wish I went for the Impact instead would have also fit my NR200 but somehow didnt realize it exists when I bought it.


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, 3933/1966 1:1 15-16-16-30-45-256-2T passed the full 25 cycles of 1usmus with no WHEA or memtest errors, it passed 60 minutes of Cinebench R23 as well with these RAM settings and -30 CO. I played a bit of Division 2 and Black Desert as well and still no WHEA or RAM related weirdness. 

I'm not happy with the high vSOC and VDDG's I have to run but I don't think they are outside of 24/7 ranges. It runs great. Division 2 @ 1080p all max with HDR enabled runs at like 270 FPS at times with average framerates well into the 160 range. Those are numbers the 11900K could only dream of. That game really, and I mean really loves the 5800X3D. So does BDO btw. Even on "ultra" screenshot mode graphics which aren't intended to play on it runs well into the 90s average. On just "remastered" it runs like 180.. I'm so happy I chose the CPU upgrade and not a 3090 and keep the 11900K. I mean, this thing does all that improvement while consuming less then half the 11900K @ 5.2 all core's 260w load...


----------



## MrHoof

Imprezzion said:


> Well, 3933/1966 1:1 15-16-16-30-45-256-2T passed the full 25 cycles of 1usmus with no WHEA or memtest errors, it passed 60 minutes of Cinebench R23 as well with these RAM settings and -30 CO. I played a bit of Division 2 and Black Desert as well and still no WHEA or RAM related weirdness.
> 
> I'm not happy with the high vSOC and VDDG's I have to run but I don't think they are outside of 24/7 ranges. It runs great. Division 2 @ 1080p all max with HDR enabled runs at like 270 FPS at times with average framerates well into the 160 range. Those are numbers the 11900K could only dream of. That game really, and I mean really loves the 5800X3D. So does BDO btw. Even on "ultra" screenshot mode graphics which aren't intended to play on it runs well into the 90s average. On just "remastered" it runs like 180.. I'm so happy I chose the CPU upgrade and not a 3090 and keep the 11900K. I mean, this thing does all that improvement while consuming less then half the 11900K @ 5.2 all core's 260w load...


Would you mind run ycruncher 2.5b with that setup? At 3800 cl14 I get 94.217. If you are into HWbot it might even be worth to submit a score.


----------



## BJT1000

JBG84 said:


> Make sure 'SoC/Uncore OC Mode' is disabled in BIOS. You should see an improvement in wake-from-sleep stability.


Unfortunately this is already set correctly, thanks for replying though! I think I might just stop using sleep mode completely, I just find it quite handy to continue where I left off though.


----------



## AXi0M

Imprezzion said:


> I specifically put a switch on the bottom of the case that's connected to the clr_cmos jumper for this. I can hit it with my toes and don't have to open the case or reach behind the bottom rad to find the clr_cmos.
> 
> View attachment 2580057
> 
> 
> I'm going to test some more memory oc's. 4000C16 memory and 2000 FCLK works without whea errors but it random froze a few times so I might have to do some tuning there. Going for 3933 /1966 now with hopefully lower voltages.


Why not just attach case reset button to clear cmos?


----------



## Taraquin

Imprezzion said:


> Well, it passed my first hour of TM5.. but it took a LOT of VDDG voltage to stop the 2-3 WHEA's per 10 minutes it got at Auto.
> Primary timings are not super tight but that's because of the 53c dimm temps. It doesn't like 14-15-15 above 47c lol. I am however quite surprised to see it handle 256 / 130ns tRFC at 53c so far.. 1T CMD GDM Off is hopeless at 3933. It kinda sorta runs it at 3733/3800 but anything over that is not possible without GDM.
> 
> vDIMM as usual on ASUS boards does not report in ZenTimings nor HWiNFO64 so. It's at 1.5400v. Once I get my Dominator Airflow's in i'll go back to 14-15-15 or even straight 14's at 1.61v again.
> 
> View attachment 2580078


You needed that much CCD voltage? I have actually never seen too low CCD make WGEA19 appear, IOD or VDDP on the other hand. Good job getting WHEA-free.


----------



## Imprezzion

Taraquin said:


> You needed that much CCD voltage? I have actually never seen too low CCD make WGEA19 appear, IOD or VDDP on the other hand. Good job getting WHEA-free.


Not sure, I just raised all of them with about the same amount. I can probably finetune them individually but I will wait with doing that until my Dominator Airflows show up and I will test again at 3933 14-15-15-28-42-240-2T with a bit more vDIMM and lower temps. I know the DIMM's can handle it, I ran them like that on a 11900K, but different platform and much much lower end board so it might not work. The 11900K had a Maxi XIII Hero, this is just a B550-A.


----------



## Blameless

Taraquin said:


> You needed that much CCD voltage? I have actually never seen too low CCD make WGEA19 appear, IOD or VDDP on the other hand. Good job getting WHEA-free.


More VDDG CCD is about the only thing that reduces error rate at higher FCLK values on my latest sample.

Didn't bother trying as high a Imprezzion though; 250mV higher everything for a 33-67MHz more FCLK is entirely counterproductive.


----------



## Imprezzion

Blameless said:


> More VDDG CCD is about the only thing that reduces error rate at higher FCLK values on my latest sample.
> 
> Didn't bother trying as high a Imprezzion though; 250mV higher everything for a 33-67MHz more FCLK is entirely counterproductive.


I sorta know. It runs 3800/1900 on 1.05 vSOC, 0.98 CCD 0.95 IOD 0.85 VDDP just fine. Maybe I should just stick with that. It's not like the 5800X3D noticed much from the increase from 3800-3933. Cinebench was the exact same score, CPU-Z as well and game benches as well lol. I might even be able to get 1T GDM Off to run on 3800 so that would be more performance increase then the bit of frequency gives.


----------



## elderblaze

I also have a cheap power switch hooked up to my Clear CMOS, but I do have to pop open a side panel to hit it, no big deal it's a Lancool II, so it's a quick screwless opeation. I thought you could damage a motherboard by pushing clear CMOS while the system is running? i'd be way to chicken to wire my Reset switch or have an external, easily accessible clear CMOS button, as I have a couple small kids running around that love buttons.

I think the reason most of these 5800X3D can hit -30 CO"s is because the boost clocks are so low. I bet a lot of 5800's could also do -30 CO if they where limited to 4.5 ghz.

I think im mostly done tweaking, just put -30 CO all core, enabled XMP profile for my 2133 ram (profile is 3200 mhz) and set it's speed to 3600 mhz manually (with DOCP 3200 mhz profile). Then disable prefered cores and enable global c-state. Pretty much done.. 15100 CB23 multi, 79 C max temp. I see some on here have managed 15200-15500 CB23's. Not sure im up for that level of tweaking.

I've used Core Cycler 1 hour per core, on 720-720, system has pased 5 iterations with no error. I think that's good enough for me, that test is particularly keen at sniffing out error's in seconds.


----------



## arkantos91

Hi all, how to set PBO2 Tuner in Windows 11 without Task Scheduler? I'd like to use the shortcut workaround but it doesn't seem to work


----------



## aditrex

yo guyz im wondering is the latency slighty higher on this chip compared to vanilla 5800x runing pretty much same timings and i get around 58ns compared to 53ns on 5800x


----------



## AXi0M

aditrex said:


> yo guyz im wondering is the latency slighty higher on this chip compared to vanilla 5800x runing pretty much same timings and i get around 58ns compared to 53ns on 5800x
> View attachment 2580413


1st post of page 1


----------



## lordzed83

Frikencio said:


> I don't think OC in this chip is worth it. If you want raw performance you should have chosen 5950X instead of 5800X3D.


Well Guess You are at wrong forums then check the name of it.. Maybe for You its to hard of a task lookinjg at what questions You are asking lol. I'w been running BCLK overclocking on my systems since i had 486 DXwith no problems. Ran Zen 1700 2700 3900 and now running 5800x3d with my standard around 102. SATA SSD and NV GPUs usually cant handle above 103blck stable long therm and boot problems. I Find BCLK overclock's i do more stable than multi ones on Asus motherboards. **** running BCLK OC on zen1 was a fix for cold boot problems loads of us on asus mb ware running that oc to prevent cold boot problem that never got fixed with bioses.

Anyhow those are my DAILY settings. Zero problems with boot sound crash whe ect. I test stability on my 10 hour rendering project i got saved besides typical programs.









Did mini test while stress testing Kryonaut vs Conductonaut. Now CPU whiole running Ycruncher does not hit 90s nice 6c drop from going liquid metal










Only reason i swapped 3900x for this is WoW as it loves cache Finally on ASHRAN i dont get drops to 25fps with 3080 sitting at 20% load lol


----------



## Blameless

Imprezzion said:


> I sorta know. It runs 3800/1900 on 1.05 vSOC, 0.98 CCD 0.95 IOD 0.85 VDDP just fine. Maybe I should just stick with that. It's not like the 5800X3D noticed much from the increase from 3800-3933. Cinebench was the exact same score, CPU-Z as well and game benches as well lol. I might even be able to get 1T GDM Off to run on 3800 so that would be more performance increase then the bit of frequency gives.


The main issue with pushing into the poor scaling range of FCLK is how much extra power it costs. Even ~5w extra on the SoC and a few watts extra on the cores could negatively impact performance more than another 66-100MHz of FCLK is likely to improve it, depending on task and cooling.



elderblaze said:


> I think the reason most of these 5800X3D can hit -30 CO"s is because the boost clocks are so low. I bet a lot of 5800's could also do -30 CO if they where limited to 4.5 ghz.


Yes.


----------



## frosty_hedgehog

BCB57 said:


> Was having the same issue, but earlier today I figured out you need to use an updated (as of 6/12/22) version of the tool. Here's a link to the download: Debug-cli.7z
> 
> The Task Scheduler syntax described above now works for CO and PPT/TDC/EDC values (I entered "0" for max boost, as I have no desire to reduce that).


 You're a life saver! I had been on this for days until I found your post. Fixed the issue for me


----------



## StevieRay2

Just got my RAM, testing out XMP just to have something to fall back on if/when my tuning doesn't work right.
The CCD/VDDP etc are all on auto, are these in the safe looking zone or should I set them to something else at my current timing? They don't have any sort of dangrous spikes at auto? I kinda monitored while running memtest but noticed nothing? Maybe VDDP a little high?


----------



## Imprezzion

Blameless said:


> The main issue with pushing into the poor scaling range of FCLK is how much extra power it costs. Even ~5w extra on the SoC and a few watts extra on the cores could negatively impact performance more than another 66-100MHz of FCLK is likely to improve it, depending on task and cooling.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.


So far, on the 3933 / 1966 profile it holds effective clocks around 4440-4450 just fine even in synthetic stress loads and score doesn't drop in Cinebench or y-cruncher so it's not hitting power limits, yet.

I still have a lot of improvements to make to the profile but at least it's stable for now even at 55c DIMM temps and runs amazing in games like Division 2, BDO and the new MW2.

I did fix my mismatched tRC at least lol.

I have noticed in testing that that memory frequency does not in any way want to run on a ProcODT value under 36.9 at all. It defaults to 43.x and that is so far the only one that was actually stable. 28.2 or 30 doesn't even POST regardless of RTT and ClkDrvStr's..

@StevieRay2 the CLDO VDDP is way high, it would probably be fine at 0.820-0.850 and CCD IOD aren't high per se but not optimal either. For this low of a memory / fclk you can probably run lower on both.


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> The CCD/VDDP etc are all on auto, are these in the safe looking zone or should I set them to something else at my current timing?


They are both safe and excessive.

While none of those auto values are dangerous, even the worst 5800X3D I've ever heard of doesn't need more than ~1.05v set (~1.025v actual, after droop) for vSOC at 1800 FCLK, and most will do it with ~1v or less. VDDP is at least 200mV high and even the VDDGs could probably stand to lose 50-100mV.



Imprezzion said:


> I have noticed in testing that that memory frequency does not in any way want to run on a ProcODT value under 36.9 at all. It defaults to 43.x and that is so far the only one that was actually stable. 28.2 or 30 doesn't even POST regardless of RTT and ClkDrvStr's..


This depends a lot on CPU and memory samples, as well as board.

My first 5800X3D liked 32 ohm ProcODT, but I'm pretty sure I can get away with 30 or 28.2 on my newer one, all other things being equal.


----------



## StevieRay2

@Blameless @Imprezzion 

Thanks, so this is more in line what I should aim for at this lower fclk profile I'm testing? Or shall I tweak a bit more?


----------



## Blameless

StevieRay2 said:


> @Blameless @Imprezzion
> 
> Thanks, so this is more in line what I should aim for at this lower fclk profile I'm testing? Or shall I tweak a bit more?


Probably a good place to start. If you run into any issues first diagnostic step would be a small bump to vSoC.


----------



## RackarN

For all the resets you guys gonna have to do while tuning, i recommend connecting the reset button to clear CMOS  i always have my reset button for CMOS clear  I'm doing some testing now @ 2000 will post later, but i think I'm gonna try GDM off and T1 before... Maybe...


----------



## zixsie

What is the actual impact on temperatures, stability or performance while decreasing the vSOC, VDDP & VDDG voltages? 
Is it so necessary to lower those or they could be ran on Auto? 
Or they just might help prolonging the life of the CPU, aka less chance of CPU failure in the long term usage? 

Mine on AUTO while running 3400mhz RAM/ 1700 FCLK are as follows:
vSOC 1.1875
VDDP 0.9
VDDG 0.99

Thanks.


----------



## Frikencio

I never got those drops whith my old 1700.

I usually play WoW at 5120x1440.




lordzed83 said:


> Well Guess You are at wrong forums then check the name of it.. Maybe for You its to hard of a task lookinjg at what questions You are asking lol. I'w been running BCLK overclocking on my systems since i had 486 DXwith no problems. Ran Zen 1700 2700 3900 and now running 5800x3d with my standard around 102. SATA SSD and NV GPUs usually cant handle above 103blck stable long therm and boot problems. I Find BCLK overclock's i do more stable than multi ones on Asus motherboards. **** running BCLK OC on zen1 was a fix for cold boot problems loads of us on asus mb ware running that oc to prevent cold boot problem that never got fixed with bioses.
> 
> Anyhow those are my DAILY settings. Zero problems with boot sound crash whe ect. I test stability on my 10 hour rendering project i got saved besides typical programs.
> View attachment 2580436
> 
> 
> Did mini test while stress testing Kryonaut vs Conductonaut. Now CPU whiole running Ycruncher does not hit 90s nice 6c drop from going liquid metal
> View attachment 2580440
> 
> 
> 
> Only reason i swapped 3900x for this is WoW as it loves cache Finally on ASHRAN i dont get drops to 25fps with 3080 sitting at 20% load lol
> View attachment 2580437


----------



## Frikencio

So if I can do this, and no errors, (just to test the cpu not the memory) I just need to tweak the memory timings bit by bit?










Or should I try with 4000?










And why is FCLK 1800?


----------



## Hello World

Your ram xmp is 3200Mhz and you try it on 4000Mhz.
Go to bios and set it to xmp 3200MHz .
System Memory Multiplayer 32.00
FCLK Friqency 1600MHz
FCLK=UCLK.


----------



## Frikencio

I should be fine...
At this point should I tighten timings or lower Dram Voltage?


----------



## Hello World

Is GSkill F4-3200C16D-32GTZR a good b-die kit?


Someone is selling this for cheaps and posted a Taiphoon burner result for me..to my surprise its a Samsung B-Die..is it any good?? The 16GB kit of this particular part number is a Hynix AFR die..luckily, the 32GB kit is a Samsung B-Die (well, according to that Taiphoon Burner screenshot)...




www.overclock.net




Hale59, post: 28771064,

You can try this.


https://www.overclock.net/attachments/image_id_2471369-jpg.2485547/


----------



## arkantos91

frosty_hedgehog said:


> You're a life saver! I had been on this for days until I found your post. Fixed the issue for me


Hi dude, can you explain step by step how to do it?

I just want to set automatically this without doing manually every time I start my pc

And also what is exactly this value we are giving here?


----------



## Jabdah

@*arkantos91*

Use the windows scheduler!


----------



## StevieRay2

Blameless said:


> Probably a good place to start. If you run into any issues first diagnostic step would be a small bump to vSoC.


Thanks SOC is hovering around 1.03v now.
Did 1000% in HCI Memtest and no whea errors, think 2-3 hours of y-cruncher would be good too for flck?

Also what would you set the SOC/VDDP/VDDG etc as when I try and go 3800/1900 or 3866/1933? The recommended Dram Calc settings? 
1.1
.95
1.05
1.05?
RAM about 1.37?


----------



## AXi0M

Frikencio said:


> So if I can do this, and no errors, (just to test the cpu not the memory) I just need to tweak the memory timings bit by bit?
> 
> View attachment 2580601
> 
> 
> Or should I try with 4000?
> 
> View attachment 2580603
> 
> 
> And why is FCLK 1800?


Lol with timings like that the 3200cl14 XMP probably performs better in everything but aida64


----------



## Blameless

arkantos91 said:


> And also what is exactly this value we are giving here?


Each number of CO equates to very roughly 0.004v on the F/V curve. -30 CO will let the CPU hit the same clocks with about 100-125mV less than stock.

Note this does not directly affect voltage, but the F/V curve. On a 5800X3D it usually, but not always, results in a reduction in voltage, because the clocks are so heavily capped.


----------



## Frikencio

AXi0M said:


> Lol with timings like that the 3200cl14 XMP probably performs better in everything but aida64


I was just testing. But My FCLK only goes up to 1900. Have a hole at 4000. So far 1900 gives no errors.

What do you think I could improve here?


----------



## Imprezzion

Frikencio said:


> I was just testing. But My FCLK only goes up to 1900. Have a hole at 4000. So far 1900 gives no errors.
> 
> What do you think I could improve here?
> 
> View attachment 2580637


Not much. Maybe tWR 10 + tRTP 5, tRRD_L 4, tRFC 240 (multiples of 16). That's about it outside of SCL's at 2 maybe?


----------



## AXi0M

Frikencio said:


> I was just testing. But My FCLK only goes up to 1900. Have a hole at 4000. So far 1900 gives no errors.
> 
> What do you think I could improve here?
> 
> View attachment 2580637


TRRDL 4 also since you're 4x8 single rank you can set your TRDRDSD/TWRWRSD to 1 (make sure "SD" i've made that mistake before lol) also your VDDP is kinda high, you probably only need 0.9v for 3800MT/s


----------



## Frikencio

Yeah but I cannot find the setting in this scuffed BIOS. And it has duplicate settings haha

It is set to VSOC 1.10V and rest auto



AXi0M said:


> TRRDL 4 also since you're 4x8 single rank you can set your TRDRDSD/TWRWRSD to 1 (make sure "SD" i've made that mistake before lol) also your VDDP is kinda high, you probably only need 0.9v for 3800MT/s


----------



## StevieRay2

RackarN said:


> For all the resets you guys gonna have to do while tuning, i recommend connecting the reset button to clear CMOS  i always have my reset button for CMOS clear  I'm doing some testing now @ 2000 will post later, but i think I'm gonna try GDM off and T1 before... Maybe...


How do you go about that with parts easily obtained? Gets annoying holding a screw drivers to the 2 pins that are tucked under a huge GPU 
Oh THE reset button, was thinking some other button that's not the case reset


----------



## Imprezzion

StevieRay2 said:


> How do you go about that with parts easily obtained? Gets annoying holding a screw drivers to the 2 pins that are tucked under a huge GPU
> Oh THE reset button, was thinking some other button that's not the case reset


I hated that in my old Phanteks Evolv X. It doesn't HAVE a reset button lel. I know, my new Torrent does have one but still. I wanna keep the reset button doing what it's supposed to. At least yours is under the GPU. Mine is behind my bottom radiator which is a thick boi Nemesis GTX240 in push pull. It barely clears the GPU thickness wise but I can't get to the bottom I/O stuff on the board. Only through the bottom when I remove the dust filter.


----------



## StevieRay2

Damn, you'd figure they'd put them in better spots, nice that some motherboards have an actual button to reset the CMOS but those were almost twice the price of mine here.


----------



## Frikencio

Changed the VDDP but the Zen Timings is showing other voltage than HWinfo


----------



## StevieRay2

With soc 1.1, vddp .95, vddgs 1.05 I can't boot into windows at 1900 fclk but I can at 1933 and 2000 but getting 15 kernel whea 20 errors in 1 minute, anyway to get rid of them?
or I'm just not able to go to 1933, and maybe stick with 1800 then and tighten timings?

Also I'm following the DRAM Calc program with the fast setting, so far I have this, any settings I should change or lower?
Also on the DRAM Calc I see some settings under CAD_Bus_Block, not sure if those are important if they are in my bios I see CAD bus timing config and stuff liek addrcmdsetup and csoodstsetup and also Cad bus drive strength config then clkdrvstern addrcmddrvstern, not sure which to choose or change if any?


----------



## Tangenius

Hey fellow 5800X3D owners. I would like to try if mine got what it takes to run 2000Fclk daily. What voltage would you recommend max? Also I read somewhere in this post if you go too high with SOC voltage you could take power budget away from the cpu but I really don't understand why that would be if ppt, edc and tdc aren't maxxed out which they aren't in my case with 1,15V Soc currently


----------



## Blameless

Frikencio said:


> Changed the VDDP but the Zen Timings is showing other voltage than HWinfo
> 
> View attachment 2580669


VDDP and CLDO VDDP are different voltages.

Ideally, they should both be set the same.


----------



## Frikencio

Blameless said:


> VDDP and CLDO VDDP are different voltages.
> 
> Ideally, they should both be set the same.


I have something called stand by vddp voltage and vddp voltage.


----------



## Pholly

I am joining the club. If there is something I must do, please tell me.

I got one with the batch no. BR 2226PGS, hoping to get a good one. 

Will be using it with the NZXT N7 B550 (not a planned build though, it was on sale). Will this motherboard be able to fully utilize the 5800x3d?


----------



## Owterspace

You don’t have to do anything, just drop it in and go


----------



## BNSoul

Monitoring boosting at stock settings after installing Windows 11 build 22H2, using HWInfo64 with Zen "snapshot" mode it gets all cores to 4550 actual speed, on 21H2 some cores would get stuck at 4545-4547 (snapshot mode shows actual speed reported by CPU instead of the HWinfo generic 4550 estimation once clocks go past 4450Mhz). Seems like 22H2 has some improvements with regard to the scheduler, games run a little bit faster as well, so nothing but a big thumbs up from me ! 👍


----------



## Imprezzion

Pholly said:


> I am joining the club. If there is something I must do, please tell me.
> 
> I got one with the batch no. BR 2226PGS, hoping to get a good one.
> 
> Will be using it with the NZXT N7 B550 (not a planned build though, it was on sale). Will this motherboard be able to fully utilize the 5800x3d?


Definitely. It's actually quite a good board feature wise. I would've loved to use a white one for my build if it wasn't €209 here lol. I actually wanna switch to one maybe or a ASUS X570 Prime Pro just for the extra M.2 and USB-C header.


----------



## AXi0M

BNSoul said:


> Monitoring boosting at stock settings after installing Windows 11 build 22H2, using HWInfo64 with Zen "snapshot" mode it gets all cores to 4550 actual speed, on 21H2 some cores would get stuck at 4545-4547 (snapshot mode shows actual speed reported by CPU instead of the HWinfo generic 4550 estimation once clocks go past 4450Mhz). Seems like 22H2 has some improvements with regard to the scheduler, games run a little bit faster as well, so nothing but a big thumbs up from me ! 👍
> 
> View attachment 2580813


I've noticed the same after installing W11 👌 but i've also noticed my L3 latency is higher in AIDA64 than W10 do you see the same @BNSoul ?


----------



## AXi0M

Imprezzion said:


> Definitely. It's actually quite a good board feature wise. I would've loved to use a white one for my build if it wasn't €209 here lol. I actually wanna switch to one maybe or a ASUS X570 Prime Pro just for the extra M.2 and USB-C header.


I have an ASUS X570 Prime Pro and be warned on Agesa 1.2.0.7 something is very weird with PBO tuner. It runs 50-63mv higher than 1.2.0.6b and draws ~20W more under load with -30 curve. Its a great board but if you get one i'd suggest running the 1.2.0.6b bios.


----------



## th3illusiveman

If there are any 5800x3d owners looking at a 4090, you can rest easy that it won't bottleneck it at 4k (which is where a 4090 belongs anyways).. This processor is the "little chip that could" - matching a 13900K at 4k. Really is 1080Ti of CPUs lol.









RTX 4090 & 53 Games: Core i9-13900K vs Ryzen 7 5800X3D Review


Intel's new 13900K offers amazing gaming performance, thanks to improvements to caches, IPC and higher operating frequencies. But is that enough to beat the 3DV Cache-powered AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D? What about platform cost?




www.techpowerup.com


----------



## HeadlessKnight

I finally decided to move away from 5900X and upgrade to 5800X3D. It appears to be the most sensible and cost effective purchase for AM4 owners. And since I already have a fast DDR4-3800C14 and an X570 board, there is no need to drop hundreds of dollars on a new platform. The 5800X3D appears more than enough at 4k to maximize the potential of my 4090. The 5900X wasn't that bad honestly but I was really itching for an upgrade.


----------



## foook92

Hello to all!
I'm having some big doubts about Power Reporting Deviation on HWINFO and my 5800x3d.
I have an C6H, at idle the PRD it's around 115/125%, with some spikes at 135% (veeery rare). During 100% load workloads, like Cinebench, I'm around 101/102%, so pretty normal.
But my 5800x3d won't boost at 4550mhz at all (yes, I clean installed my Win11, and followed the recommended settings in this thread) even with super light loads or at idle, it's because of the high PRD at idle?

Thanks!


----------



## jdub90

Long(er) post regarding my personal bclk overclock testing:

I'm running an x370 taichi which allows for coupled bclk adjustment. I've been successfully running with up to 103 MHz before the NVME is not detected. With this, the boost clock gets scaled from 4550 MHz to 4686.5 MHz (as expected).

The thing I noticed is that with this higher effective boost clock the PBO2 tuner CO offsets need to be adjusted to lower offsets to compensate for the higher frequency (which is logical). For example across my cores, I require -23 -25 -10 -23 -15 -25 -10 -15 to be stable using y-cruncher, 19 - ZN2 ~ Kagari, customized to only run N64. This from my testing appears to be the hardest test to pass and allows for the quickest confirmation on general CO offset stability.

Additionally I have found, that for my cores, that for each CO offset decrease (ie -30 to -29, -10 to -9, etc), allows me 8-9 MHz of additional frequency stability.

So if I manually adjust the Max Boost to 4425 MHz, this allows for an effective boost clock of 4557.75 MHz @ 103 bclk and I can run more "standard" offsets of -30 -30 -25 -30 -30 -30 -25- 30. This has shown to be stable through extensive testing.

I have a newer 5800X3D, ordered from Newegg last week, so perhaps this frequency stability ceiling is more prevalent on newer units and likely has a temperature component which I have not characterized.

For my final settings I decided to set the Max Boost to 4450 MHz (4583.5 MHz @ 103 bclk) , which makes the frequency ceiling in 1T-16T loads the same. I am currently running with CO offsets of -30 -30 -22 -30 -27 -30 -22 -27, which has shown to be stable from extensive testing.

Summary of System Settings:
BCLK: 103 MHz
MCLK, FCLK, UCLK: 1833 MHz (1888 MHz effective @ 103 bclk)
DRAM: 16-19-19-21-36-58-1T
Cooler: TR Le GRAND MACHO RT
PBO Settings: -30 -30 -22 -30 -27 -30 -22 -27 114 75 115 4450
Temps: ~81-83C after end of CB-R23 MT run
SOC, CLDO VDDP, VDDG CCD, VDDG IOD, PLL: 1.07 V, 0.85 V, 1 V, 1 V, 1.75 V
[Note the X370 Taichi firmware has a bug that ties VDDG CCD and VDDG IOD to SOC but if SOC exceeds 1V, pegs it at 1V]

*Edit:
Updated after lapping CPU cooler and upping ram speed:*

Benchmarks Results :
CB-R23 (MT, 8T, 4T, 2T, 1T): 15469, 10980, 5947, 2988, 1508
Geekbench 5 (1T, MT): 1661, 11992
3DMark CPU Profile (MT, 16T, 8T, 4T, 2T, 1T): 7789, 7782, 6742, 3593, 1815, 916
3DMark TimeSpy CPU Score: 12754
Jetstream V2, Chrome (latest), Incognito Mode: 269.895

Helps this helps others. My goal going into this was to "optimize" the 5800X3D and have true system stability.


----------



## mike7877

Is this a good value to start my BCLK overclock attempting from?

I changed some stuff in the BIOS (as we're all aware, options are severely limited). Before I did the result was down in the mid 600s (604?), which I've heard a couple times now, isn't ideal.

I have RAM at 3866 (14:15:15 1T), fabric 1933. I haven't gone too deep into tuning the RAM's secondaries/tertiaries yet because I want to get the bus OC stable first.

618.9, basically 619 - good to start from?


----------



## jdub90

@mike7877
I would focus on getting PBO2 tuner CO offsets setup first, which doesn't appear to be applied.


----------



## Paps.pt

Hi guys.
I own a ryzen 3600 and a 3060ti. I game at 1400p. Did anyone made the same upgrade? 
In your opinion, is it worth it to upgrade to the 5800x3d or will I be seeing minimum performance gains at that resolution?
Cheers


----------



## Farih

Paps.pt said:


> Hi guys.
> I own a ryzen 3600 and a 3060ti. I game at 1400p. Did anyone made the same upgrade?
> In your opinion, is it worth it to upgrade to the 5800x3d or will I be seeing minimum performance gains at that resolution?
> Cheers


I went from a 3700x to a 5800x3D, GPU is a 6700XT.
Don't notice much difference in most games since my monitor (1440p) is limited to 75Hz.
But some games like: World of Warcraft, Black Desert Online, Path of Exile got huge gains.
In extreme bottlenecked area's in WoW it went from 32-38FPS to 54-60 FPS, that's like a 65% gain!
I reckon i would have noticed the CPU upgrade more if i was playing at 120hz/fps or higher.


----------



## mike7877

jdub90 said:


> @mike7877
> I would focus on getting PBO2 tuner CO offsets setup first, which doesn't appear to be applied.


Lol that thing seems to have permanently robbed me from 6450/620 to 6000/588 in CPU-z.

I tried -5 then -10 offsets, then back to 0.

I'll reset CMOS this evening and read more about how I must have implemented something wrong lol

edit: got my 6400 back, still down below 600 though :/


----------



## Twitcha

Hi everyone,

I've been following this thread for a while now and recently I've build my own PC for the first time running on the 5800x3d.
At the beginning I had some issues with temps but after changing some settings in the bios and with PBO tuner -30 all cores it's running on 80c max. I never reach the full boost limit of 4.550Mhz though.

I'm pretty sure it is what it is but I'd just like to confirm that what I'm seeing in HWinfo is correct. In this bios the only settings that I've applied are the settings listed in the OP.

What I'm not sure about is the "base clock" shouldn't that be set on 3400.0Mhz?










During CB23 Multi Core:










Average score in CB23 is ~14300. CPU temp hits 80c in Ryzen Master which is why I believe it doesn't boost further then ~4375Mhz

Specs:

MB: MSI Tomahawk x570S
Latest Bios: version: 7D54v14 - AGESA ComboAm4v2PI 1.2.0.7.
CPU: 5800x3d
CPU Cooler: DarkRockPro 4
Memory: Corsair 3600Mhz
GPU: Asus Rog Strix 3080 10gb
PBO: -30 on all cores

Idle temp: 35c


----------



## jdub90

mike7877 said:


> Lol that thing seems to have permanently robbed me from 6450/620 to 6000/588 in CPU-z.
> 
> I tried -5 then -10 offsets, then back to 0.
> 
> I'll reset CMOS this evening and read more about how I must have implemented something wrong lol
> 
> edit: got my 6400 back, still down below 600 though :/


CPU-Z isn't the most consistent benchmark. Give Cinebench R20 or R23 a run. When running both the single thread and all thread test, monitor the clock frequencies and temperatures using HWINFO64 or HWMonitor and report back. I am guessing your all core frequency is around 4325 MHz due to temperature or power limits Also try larger offsets of -25 for the CO calues.


----------



## Farih

Twitcha said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've been following this thread for a while now and recently I've build my own PC for the first time running on the 5800x3d.
> At the beginning I had some issues with temps but after changing some settings in the bios and with PBO tuner -30 all cores it's running on 80c max. I never reach the full boost limit of 4.550Mhz though.
> 
> I'm pretty sure it is what it is but I'd just like to confirm that what I'm seeing in HWinfo is correct. In this bios the only settings that I've applied are the settings listed in the OP.
> 
> What I'm not sure about is the "base clock" shouldn't that be set on 3400.0Mhz?
> 
> View attachment 2581231
> 
> 
> During CB23 Multi Core:
> 
> View attachment 2581233
> 
> 
> Average score in CB23 is ~14500. CPU temp hits 80c in Ryzen Master which is why I believe it doesn't boost further then ~4400Mhz
> 
> Specs:
> 
> MB: MSI Tomahawk x570S
> Latest Bios: version: 7D54v14 - AGESA ComboAm4v2PI 1.2.0.7.
> CPU: 5800x3d
> CPU Cooler: DarkRockPro 4
> Memory: Corsair 3600Mhz
> GPU: Asus Rog Strix 3080 10gb
> PBO: -30 on all cores
> 
> Idle temp: 35c


Don't expect it to boost to 4550mhz all core's in CB23 or similar.
4400mhz all-core at 80 degrees with -30 curve is pretty normal with air cooling in CB23.
I get 4375-4400mhz at the end of CB23 (starts at 4450-4500mhz and slowly goes down), curve set to -25 and score 15K points. Also runs 80 degrees.

In something like P95/OCCT/Ycruncher you will probably run alot hotter (around 95c) and lower clockspeed.

You should see it boost to 4550mhz every now and then on a single core while you're just doing daily simple tasks.
Have HWinfo64 open and do some browsing/youtube/office stuff and you will prolly see it boost to 4550mhz a few times.


----------



## Twitcha

Farih said:


> Don't expect it to boost to 4550mhz all core's in CB23 or similar.
> 4400mhz all-core at 80 degrees with -30 curve is pretty normal with air cooling in CB23.
> I get 4375-4400mhz at the end of CB23 (starts at 4450-4500mhz and slowly goes down), curve set to -25 and score 15K points. Also runs 80 degrees.
> 
> In something like P95/OCCT/Ycruncher you will probably run alot hotter (around 95c) and lower clockspeed.
> 
> You should see it boost to 4550mhz every now and then on a single core while you're just doing daily simple tasks.
> Have HWinfo64 open and do some browsing/youtube/office stuff and you will prolly see it boost to 4550mhz a few times.


Thanks! Yeah I've seen 4500+ a couple of times for a few seconds, so I guess all is good. I'm just wondering if I should set some other values for the EDC/PPT values as well. I guess I'm just a bit paranoia about it being my first own build and If I've setup everything correct 🙃


----------



## Imprezzion

What is the best application to test CO - with? Y-cruncher is nice however it throttles still. Even on -30 it still drops to like, 4300 ish in the heavier tests so it doesn't really test 4450 @ 1.169v or -30CO. 
I still have random crashes in games even tho it passes every test I have thrown at it so far so.. yeah.. bit confused here now.


----------



## Frosted racquet

Have you tried CoreCycler with Prime95 SSE setting for ex.?


----------



## Farih

Imprezzion said:


> What is the best application to test CO - with? Y-cruncher is nice however it throttles still. Even on -30 it still drops to like, 4300 ish in the heavier tests so it doesn't really test 4450 @ 1.169v or -30CO.
> I still have random crashes in games even tho it passes every test I have thrown at it so far so.. yeah.. bit confused here now.


CB20, CB23 and P95 large FFT's


----------



## Paps.pt

Farih said:


> I went from a 3700x to a 5800x3D, GPU is a 6700XT.
> Don't notice much difference in most games since my monitor (1440p) is limited to 75Hz.
> But some games like: World of Warcraft, Black Desert Online, Path of Exile got huge gains.
> In extreme bottlenecked area's in WoW it went from 32-38FPS to 54-60 FPS, that's like a 65% gain!
> I reckon i would have noticed the CPU upgrade more if i was playing at 120hz/fps or higher.


Yeah, my monitor is a 27 inch Qnix IPS and was one of the first overclockable monitors. It's capable of 120hz but I have it at 90hz and that's pretty good frames per second rate, in my opinion. 
My setup is a MSI B450 Tomahawk Max, Ryzen 5 3600, be quiet dark rock 4 air cooler, be quiet pure base 500DX case, be quiet pure power 11 600w PSU, 16gb DDR4 3600 CL16, Samsung 970 Evo nvme 1tb (OS and part of the steam library) and Samsung 850 Evo (the rest of the steam library), Qnix 27 inch IPS 1440p @90Hz and 23 inch 1080p @144Hz LCD, Asus Xonar audio card, etc.
I'm pretty happy with the performance but I keep reading several articles stating that the best value upgrade I could do for my AM4 generation is buying the 5800x3d, instead of having to buy a new motherboard, ddr5 and new cpu. Especially if I can find a 5800x3d for 350€. But the articles state that it's better to who plays at 1080p resolution.
What's your thoughts about this?
Thanks for your input 👍


----------



## Imprezzion

Frosted racquet said:


> Have you tried CoreCycler with Prime95 SSE setting for ex.?


No that is actually a good suggestion.. I forgot about CoreCycler as on Intel you basically never use it. It'll load up the same voltage on -30 but 4550 even in stead of 4450 so if all cores pass like 4-5 iterations overnight on a certain - CO at 4550 it should be completely stable. I will give it a shot.

I kept getting random crashes in MW2 and Division 2 and I was convinced it was CPU or RAM of FCLK related so I set it back to DOCP 3600C16 with everything Auto and no -CO and it's perfectly stable. No crashes at all. So now I am working my way back. First I wanna properly find out what the CPU can run -CO wise before I start the RAM again.

I always wanna do everything at once but never know what actually causes the crash then 

EDIT: Ok, -30 all core was NOT stable.. Testing -23 now. That is the highest I can go and still hold 4450 effective clocks in all benchmarks. I hope that is stable overnight...


----------



## fas7play

Imprezzion said:


> EDIT: Ok, -30 all core was NOT stable.. Testing -23 now. That is the highest I can go and still hold 4450 effective clocks in all benchmarks. I hope that is stable overnight...


what does windows event log tell?

example:
Cache Hierarchy Error
*Prozessor-APIC-ID: 9*

0/1 = 0
2/3 = 1
4/5 = 2
6/7 = 3
*8/9 = 4*
10/11 = 5
12/13 = 6
14/15 = 7

so reduce core 4 from -30 to -25 in this exmaple.


----------



## StevieRay2

Imprezzion said:


> No that is actually a good suggestion.. I forgot about CoreCycler as on Intel you basically never use it. It'll load up the same voltage on -30 but 4550 even in stead of 4450 so if all cores pass like 4-5 iterations overnight on a certain - CO at 4550 it should be completely stable. I will give it a shot.
> 
> I kept getting random crashes in MW2 and Division 2 and I was convinced it was CPU or RAM of FCLK related so I set it back to DOCP 3600C16 with everything Auto and no -CO and it's perfectly stable. No crashes at all. So now I am working my way back. First I wanna properly find out what the CPU can run -CO wise before I start the RAM again.
> 
> I always wanna do everything at once but never know what actually causes the crash then
> 
> EDIT: Ok, -30 all core was NOT stable.. Testing -23 now. That is the highest I can go and still hold 4450 effective clocks in all benchmarks. I hope that is stable overnight...


I wouldn't use MW2 as an indicator for stability, it's having a huge issue with people crashing, patches are slowly coming out but still not 100% fixed it.


----------



## Imprezzion

StevieRay2 said:


> I wouldn't use MW2 as an indicator for stability, it's having a huge issue with people crashing, patches are slowly coming out but still not 100% fixed it.


I know, and so does Division 2. But if it crashes every 5-10 minutes repeatable with -30 and the RAM / FCLK cranked but plays for 3 hours straight just fine with stock CPU and DOCP 3600C16 there's a pattern there. And yes, APIC 11 and 13 after dinner at -30. So core 5 and 6 I guess. No crashes or errors yet at -23 but haven't tested very long either. 

I will test overnight but I wanna actually use my PC for some games this evening so back to like -15 CO and DOCP 3600C16 RAM which _should_ be fine.


----------



## Frikencio

I am very happy with my chip doing 3800 Fully stable with -30 CO and 1900FCLK.


----------



## StevieRay2

My chip handles -30 perfectly but has a hole at 1900FCLK and tons of WHEA errors past 1933+, no matter what I raise doesn't stop them, so 1867 it is for me


----------



## Imprezzion

I'll just do a BIOS / CMOS CLR and load optimized defaults and try again overnight with -30. I refuse to believe it doesn't do -30 lol. It might just be combination of unstable RAM OC / FCLK / something in the BIOS..

It has no FCLK holes either, it boots everything from 1800 up to 2067 without WHEA's but I can't get my RAM stable without errors above 3866 so far so yeah..


----------



## marcoschaap

Joined the club, upgrader from a 5800X to the X3D, mainly because I do a lot of VR gaming. I have a BR 2228PGS batch number. Currently CO -30 on all cores is stable. Allcore boost is 4450 flat, temps around 76 degrees in 10 minutes CB23 run on a custom loop. Scores 14931. Does 2000mhz FCLK but I have yet to find out the best timings on my RAM doing that. Currently on 1900.

Very satisfied with the noticeable gains in VR


----------



## mike7877

It seems my motherboard lowers the CPU voltage much further than the PBO2 tuner app. Setting -30 in the middle of a torture test causes a 0.06V increase from 1.18-1.20 to 1.24-1.26. Power consumption goes way up, too.

Before I tried PBO2 (or even knew it existed - if I did I probably wouldnt've have been working so long to make my 5800X3D faster and more efficient), I came across a setting in the BIOS of my motherboard called Kombo Strike. You can turn it (Off), (1), (2), or (3).

Kombo Strike is to increase performance. 3 increases it the most. You'd have to be reeaallll stupid to pick 1 or 2 lol

Performance improved! Number 3 gave 4% higher multithreaded scores. 

I wanted more than 4% though, so I started thinking. Loadline calibration came to mind, but first I needed to take some accurate baseline measurements of Kombo Strike 3 before trying it. I decided on AIDA64's stability test for CPU stress. "CPU" and "FPU" tests, results of power and voltage taken from the regulator would be used - averaged over 60 seconds for accuracy. 

Results:

44.65W and 1.189V during "CPU". This is the voltage to the cores of the CPU. Power is only consumption of cores. If you're curious, total chip power was 65W.

Loadline levels (8 is baseline)

8) 44.65W and 1.189V
6) oops and 1.213V
3) 46.9W and 1.221V
1) 47.9W and 1.226V

1.226V - 1.189V is 0.037V

0.037V is the gain from enabling Loadline calibration.

AMD was kind enough to allow negative CPU voltage offsets, so to nullify LLC 1, I set a -0.0375V offset

Booted back into Windows (still LLC 1), but instead of less volts there were more! I ran the test, 60 seconds average etc. and the voltage was 1.238V! 
0.015V _higher_
Power consumption was what you'd expect, about 1.5W higher than 47.9

I went back into the BIOS, got rid of the -0.375V offset, and ran the test again and the voltage returned to expected for LLC 1 + (3):
1.225V, 48.2W

I also did the FPU simultaneously. Results:

8) 72.4W and 1.155V
6) 76.4W and 1.179V
3) 79.7W and 1.195V
1) 81.8W and 1.207V

Whole chip: 95w, 100.5, 102.75, 104.25

I also measured performance with Performance Test and here are the results:

Integer:
8) 93395
6) 93441
3) 92558
1) 92958/93123

FP:
8) 52040
6) 52131
3) 52041
1) 52147

Each score is the best of 4, which I've found keeps results correct enough (accurate to a small fraction of a percent).

Even though power varied by 7.3% and 13%, performance only varied by 0.9% and 0.02%.


Idle voltages don't vary much and neither does power consumption

Are my voltages exceptionally good, or is PBO2 just clashing with my system for reasons unknown?


----------



## StevieRay2

Around what I have, Kombo Strike 3 LLC 6 doesn't go over 1.19v and give me more performance than another LLC with a mix of an offset and no offset.


----------



## Imprezzion

K -23 all core is fine. No more random crashes and scores in CB R23 and other tests are within margin of error. It still full boosts to 4.45. Just at slightly higher vCore and it's stable now. Temps are still fine as well. Low 60's in game and 77 max in Cinebench R23 60 minutes loop. I did have my RAM and FCLK just at DOCP 3600C16 1800. 

Tomorrow back to RAM OC I guess. My Dominator Airflows should arrive tomorrow as well so no more 53c DIMM's at 1.40v.. lol.


----------



## mike7877

StevieRay2 said:


> Kombo Strike 3 LLC 6 doesn't go over 1.19v and give me more performance than another LLC with a mix of an offset and no offset.


It's looking like that's what I'll be using. I might do LLC 4 or 5 + 2.5% to Mr. 100

I don't know why AMD couldn't just limit voltage to 1.32 and allow a 48x multiplier - everyone could find the optimal spot for their chips without such inconvenience!!

I'd be setting 1.24V flat LLC with a 47x multiplier on all cores - extremely stable for years without further adjustment, no 3.6GHz ramping up to 4.68 for single threaded and 4.57 multi with a 102.5MHz bus and 1.215V to the cores.

My 3700X couldn't even do 4GHz all core with 1.25V. This AMD's a winner!


----------



## Frikencio

What would you try as soc voltage with 3800 RAM? Currently 1.1V LLC Auto.


----------



## Blameless

mike7877 said:


> It seems my motherboard lowers the CPU voltage much further than the PBO2 tuner app. Setting -30 in the middle of a torture test causes a 0.06V increase from 1.18-1.20 to 1.24-1.26. Power consumption goes way up, too.


Unless you're also seeing a huge increase in clock speed, it's not working.



mike7877 said:


> I came across a setting in the BIOS of my motherboard called Kombo Strike. You can turn it (Off), (1), (2), or (3).


Kombo Strike is all core CO of -10 per step. It should function exactly the same way as setting CO by other means.


----------



## mike7877

Blameless said:


> Unless you're also seeing a huge increase in clock speed, it's not working.


20+ watts of power and an instant rise of over 10C is what happened. I applied it running AIDA64's stability test with just CPU checked off. ~65 watt total chip power was reported - that grew immensely

I don't know if you saw in my post about when I added a -0.0375 offset to the cores in the BIOS - I got + 0.015V there (reading taken from the regulator while CPU was under load (same load each time obviously) - average reading over 60 seconds).

Maybe MSI made (-) into (+) and said oops to nobody to get around AMD's shenanigans. Whatever the case there, operation is as expected when I don't use offset



Blameless said:


> Kombo Strike is all core CO of -10 per step. It should function exactly the same way as setting CO by other means.


Excellent.


----------



## Imprezzion

NZXT N7 B550 vs ASUS Prime X570 Pro? 
I read one of you guys saying the Prime Pro latest 1.2.0.7 BIOS is terrible but what about the overall quality of the NZXT? It has a 2.5g nic that I don't really trust for example... And how's BIOS and RAM OC support for the NZXT boards? 

They have the exact same price here and I kinda wanna upgrade my low-end B550-A to a *white* board with a bit more features like USB-C header, more m.2 slots, Wi-Fi 6...


----------



## LiimaSmurffi

I've been tinkering with my 5800X3D and got 1900FCLK 3800MHz CL16 mem with -30 CO stable. Allcore is 4450MHz rock solid with those.

Tried some BCLK OC today, lowered to 3733MHz mem and 1867MHz FCLK with 101.8 BCLK which puts them back to 3800MHz and 1900MHz respectively. This made the allcore go to solid 4530MHz. For some reason the max multiplier is lower than at stock, so I am not getting full clock advantage of this.. Anyway the performance is slightly better, so might keep it this way unless I can figure a way to get the multiplier to work properly.


----------



## MrHoof

Imprezzion said:


> K -23 all core is fine. No more random crashes and scores in CB R23 and other tests are within margin of error. It still full boosts to 4.45. Just at slightly higher vCore and it's stable now. Temps are still fine as well. Low 60's in game and 77 max in Cinebench R23 60 minutes loop. I did have my RAM and FCLK just at DOCP 3600C16 1800.
> 
> Tomorrow back to RAM OC I guess. My Dominator Airflows should arrive tomorrow as well so no more 53c DIMM's at 1.40v.. lol.


Well -23 isnt too bad, my trash core3 is pulling me down on all core load so much is kinda sad, it needs -8 to be fully stable. 
Rated 7th worst core so not like its a good core that needs lower CO
All core will be bound to the worst cores VID from my testing so at -8 my all core clocks are garbage, does not impact low threaded gaming to much cause my prefered cores are great.
One of the rare cases somone wants to keep prefered cores on I guess.


----------



## AXi0M

Imprezzion said:


> NZXT N7 B550 vs ASUS Prime X570 Pro?
> I read one of you guys saying the Prime Pro latest 1.2.0.7 BIOS is terrible but what about the overall quality of the NZXT? It has a 2.5g nic that I don't really trust for example... And how's BIOS and RAM OC support for the NZXT boards?
> 
> They have the exact same price here and I kinda wanna upgrade my low-end B550-A to a *white* board with a bit more features like USB-C header, more m.2 slots, Wi-Fi 6...


The PRIME-PRO bios is fine with everything except pbo tuner. It still works just draws more power than the 1.2.0.6b bios on mine


----------



## Pholly

Today I had my first chance to try out my own unit with N7 B550 (latest bios) and AK620 cooler in 27-28c room. I am a novice for this cpu and don't even know where to start. I personally don't want to mess around with things/settings outside the bios, but I might try to do pbo2 (in windows, i guess?) if that would significantly increase performance.

With everything stock except 3200MHz CL16 XMP ram I managed to get 626 cpu-z single-core score and around 6060-6110 for multi-core score.

I think the single-core score is just fine, but I was not satisfied with the multi-core score. I know the ram I used isn't fast, but I never saw someone with lower multi-core score than that. So is this normal? Should I be playing around with all the tweaks available?


----------



## Imprezzion

Pholly said:


> Today I had my first chance to try out my own unit with N7 B550 (latest bios) and AK620 cooler in 27-28c room. I am a novice for this cpu and don't even know where to start. I personally don't want to mess around with things/settings outside the bios, but I might try to do pbo2 (in windows, i guess?) if that would significantly increase performance.
> 
> With everything stock except 3200MHz CL16 XMP ram I managed to get 626 cpu-z single-core score and around 6060-6110 for multi-core score.
> 
> I think the single-core score is just fine, but I was not satisfied with the multi-core score. I know the ram I used isn't fast, but I never saw someone with lower multi-core score than that. So is this normal? Should I be playing around with all the tweaks available?


Single core is higher then mine even is, that barely hits 600 at -23 CO, but multi core is quite low. I run around 6440 on -23 so 4450 sustained. At stock it's probably not unreasonable.


----------



## Farih

Pholly said:


> Today I had my first chance to try out my own unit with N7 B550 (latest bios) and AK620 cooler in 27-28c room. I am a novice for this cpu and don't even know where to start. I personally don't want to mess around with things/settings outside the bios, but I might try to do pbo2 (in windows, i guess?) if that would significantly increase performance.
> 
> With everything stock except 3200MHz CL16 XMP ram I managed to get 626 cpu-z single-core score and around 6060-6110 for multi-core score.
> 
> I think the single-core score is just fine, but I was not satisfied with the multi-core score. I know the ram I used isn't fast, but I never saw someone with lower multi-core score than that. So is this normal? Should I be playing around with all the tweaks available?


Seems normal tbh at stock, good single core score  

All core -25 gives me this:









3733mhz CL14 RAM atm.


----------



## Rhadamanthis

Msi Unify-X B550, Combo Strike 3, llc 6 , ofset 0.0375, ram 3600 c16

is ok?


----------



## Imprezzion

Are you guys using CPPC Preferred Cores or have it disabled? I can get the same multicore scores just fine at -23 but single core is like 595. Even if I see it boost to 4550 in HWINFO64..


----------



## Farih

Imprezzion said:


> Are you guys using CPPC Preferred Cores or have it disabled? I can get the same multicore scores just fine at -23 but single core is like 595. Even if I see it boost to 4550 in HWINFO64..


No idea, i have not been able to find that setting on this board yet (B550-F strix) 😭


----------



## ilmazzo

Any Hunt Showdown users here? (Crytek Cryengine DX12 title)

In these days I tried to play a little with AMD link on a tablet to keep some metrics in sight and noticed that the cpu is sitting near the 20% utilization and that's ok but the thing is that in game the clocks hover between 3,5 to 3,9 ghz .....fps are ok since i'm gpu limited ([email protected] low/medium settings at [email protected])

using balanced power profile in win10 which is 100% cpu frequency on both min and maximum.....is it because I'm gpu limited or am I missing something?


----------



## Blameless

Rhadamanthis said:


> Msi Unify-X B550, Combo Strike 3, llc 6 , ofset 0.0375, ram 3600 c16
> 
> is ok?


Single core is where it should be, multi-core is a bit low, possibly due to clock stretching from the negative offset.



Imprezzion said:


> Are you guys using CPPC Preferred Cores or have it disabled? I can get the same multicore scores just fine at -23 but single core is like 595. Even if I see it boost to 4550 in HWINFO64..


Preferred cores should usually be disabled on the 5800X3D, and any other single CCX part where none of the most preferred cores are dramatically stronger than the others. Also, use snapshot polling in HWiNFO to get a clearer picture of what the clocks are doing.

A single core score of 595 indicates core 0 isn't actually boosting correctly, or there is too much stuff running in the background.


----------



## zixsie

Blameless said:


> Single core is where it should be, multi-core is a bit low, possibly due to clock stretching from the negative offset.
> 
> 
> 
> Preferred cores should usually be disabled on the 5800X3D, and any other single CCX part where none of the most preferred cores are dramatically stronger than the others. Also, use snapshot polling in HWiNFO to get a clearer picture of what the clocks are doing.
> 
> A single core score of 595 indicates core 0 isn't actually boosting correctly, or there is too much stuff running in the background.



Is it worth it to disable also CPPC along with Preferred cores ? On multiple sources they claim that both disabled improve 1% and 0.1% lows FPS. I just gave it a test and with both disabled, i still see my single core boosts to 4550. But honestly i do not care about that single core boost while i want to squeeze the best gaming performance and improve 0.1% and 1% FPS.


----------



## sandersd959

Am I the only one scratching their head about a 5800x3d thread on overclockers.net?


----------



## Slaughtahouse

sandersd959 said:


> Am I the only one scratching their head about a 5800x3d thread on overclockers.net?


Did you read the first page? The summary is there with suggestions to optimize the EUFI (BIOS) for the chip + link to software to use Curve Optimizer (improve performance / reduce power draw). You can also Bus Clock overclock but that is not advised for any system with important data as you risk data corruption and other quirks.


----------



## tabascosauz

zixsie said:


> Is it worth it to disable also CPPC along with Preferred cores ? On multiple sources they claim that both disabled improve 1% and 0.1% lows FPS. I just gave it a test and with both disabled, i still see my single core boosts to 4550. But honestly i do not care about that single core boost while i want to squeeze the best gaming performance and improve 0.1% and 1% FPS.


There's no hard and fast rule when it comes to Preferred cores, every CPU has different core quality distribution, and different boards and BIOSes all perform wildly differently. Having it disabled doesn't always change core scheduling significantly; when you disable it, the CPPC order rates every core as #1, but it does not affect the separate Windows/hardware order that runs alongside CPPC. Often times scheduling can still roughly end up following the same order, even with it off. There was just one application in which I suspect Preferred cores was causing problems, so I left it off - everything else doesn't care.

As for the other setting, I don't think I've seen anyone knowledgeable recommend CPPC disabled. It's an integral part of how every 3000 and later Ryzen CPU works.


----------



## gonXnog

ilmazzo said:


> Any Hunt Showdown users here? (Crytek Cryengine DX12 title)
> 
> In these days I tried to play a little with AMD link on a tablet to keep some metrics in sight and noticed that the cpu is sitting near the 20% utilization and that's ok but the thing is that in game the clocks hover between 3,5 to 3,9 ghz .....fps are ok since i'm gpu limited ([email protected] low/medium settings at [email protected])
> 
> using balanced power profile in win10 which is 100% cpu frequency on both min and maximum.....is it because I'm gpu limited or am I missing something?


Fellow hunter here 

I upgraded from a 3700X and I can see a 20-30 FPS increase at 1080p especially on DeSalle.
My clocks are in the 4400-4450 range so almost the max all core boost.

I guess you are GPU limited with your resolution !

NB : Hunt is a DX11 game, not DX12


----------



## skline00

sandersd959 said:


> Am I the only one scratching their head about a 5800x3d thread on overclockers.net?


I agree. I had a 3900x in my X570 Gigabyte Aorus Elite mb coupled with a RX 6800 and 32 gigs (2x16) of DDR4-3600. Replaced the 3900x with the 5800x3D because I like to play MSFS2020 and the 5800x3D really produces in this sim.

I realize that this forum is for Overclockers BUT the 5800x3D stock is really pushed to the limit unlike a number of other cpus I have owned through the years.


----------



## LiimaSmurffi

skline00 said:


> I agree. I had a 3900x in my X570 Gigabyte Aorus Elite mb coupled with a RX 6800 and 32 gigs (2x16) of DDR4-3600. Replaced the 3900x with the 5800x3D because I like to play MSFS2020 and the 5800x3D really produces in this sim.
> 
> I realize that this forum is for Overclockers BUT the 5800x3D stock is really pushed to the limit unlike a number of other cpus I have owned through the years.


I would say it’s not pushed to its limits, but the tuning possibilities are too limited due to restrictions.

I’m also coming from a 3900X and this 5800X3D seems to have potential but lack of clock ratio and power limit adjustments prevents it from achieving its full potential. The 3900X on the other hand achieved lower FCLK and lower increase in core speed compared to this.


----------



## Imprezzion

If only we could somehow mod a BIOS to accept multipliers higher then 44.5 for All-core.. then again, I'm already seeing 77c on -23 CO all core 4450 @ 1.19v with a way overpowered custom loop so I can only imagine the temps at 4850 @ 1.36v or something similar..


----------



## ilmazzo

gonXnog said:


> Fellow hunter here
> 
> I upgraded from a 3700X and I can see a 20-30 FPS increase at 1080p especially on DeSalle.
> My clocks are in the 4400-4450 range so almost the max all core boost.
> 
> I guess you are GPU limited with your resolution !
> 
> NB : Hunt is a DX11 game, not DX12


omg I thought it was DX12!

Gonna update drivers so since this october release brought DX11 improvements if I'm not wrong


----------



## LiimaSmurffi

Imprezzion said:


> If only we could somehow mod a BIOS to accept multipliers higher then 44.5 for All-core.. then again, I'm already seeing 77c on -23 CO all core 4450 @ 1.19v with a way overpowered custom loop so I can only imagine the temps at 4850 @ 1.36v or something similar..


That would absolutely need Liquid metal TIM to cool. But to be even able to OC and undervolt at the same time would be great. My 5800X3D does -30 CO and some BCLK on top of that getting 4578MHz sustained all core. Could possibly do more if I could still boot to windows with my NVMe drive and higher BCLK.


----------



## Blameless

zixsie said:


> Is it worth it to disable also CPPC along with Preferred cores ? On multiple sources they claim that both disabled improve 1% and 0.1% lows FPS. I just gave it a test and with both disabled, i still see my single core boosts to 4550. But honestly i do not care about that single core boost while i want to squeeze the best gaming performance and improve 0.1% and 1% FPS.


I generally leave CPPC enabled. It should be a faster/lower latency way to manage power/performance states and I'm skeptical of reports that recommend disabling it outside of fixed all-core OCs (which can't even be done on a 5800X3D). Tuning power plans is probably wiser.

Preferred cores is usually best left disabled as it biases scheduling to those cores, which can cause unneeded contention. Rarely is any core on a 5800X3D that much better than the rest that it can overcome this issue. Same goes for most single CCX parts, honestly. It might not hurt all configurations, but I have never seen it help a 5800X3D.

Regarding your boost clocks, monitor them with HWiNFO with snapshot polling enabled.


----------



## zixsie

*Blameless
tabascosauz*

Thanks guys for the responses about CPPC. I will just leave it on Auto and disable Preferred cores.
Regarding the boost clocks, i monitor them in HWiNFO with snapshot polling enabled while also monitor the CPU Effective clocks. While running CB23 benchmark, i can see that CPU all core clocks speed is 1:1 matching with CPU Effective clocks for all cores (thus leading me to think that there is no clock stretching apparent) also while running PBOTuner -30 all cores.


----------



## AXi0M

ilmazzo said:


> omg I thought it was DX12!
> 
> Gonna update drivers so since this october release brought DX11 improvements if I'm not wrong


it was DX12 improvements that Nvidia pushed not DX11


----------



## umea

Blameless said:


> I generally leave CPPC enabled. It should be a faster/lower latency way to manage power/performance states and I'm skeptical of reports that recommend disabling it outside of fixed all-core OCs (which can't even be done on a 5800X3D). Tuning power plans is probably wiser.
> 
> Preferred cores is usually best left disabled as it biases scheduling to those cores, which can cause unneeded contention. Rarely is any core on a 5800X3D that much better than the rest that it can overcome this issue. Same goes for most single CCX parts, honestly. It might not hurt all configurations, but I have never seen it help a 5800X3D.
> 
> Regarding your boost clocks, monitor them with HWiNFO with snapshot polling enabled.


btw, if you truly want to run a static all core OC like me, the closest you can get is forcing 100% utilization which forces clocks to stay at 4.45ghz(in my case)  runs hotter however and up to ppl if they want to be running cpu at 100% util/no idle at all times

i still need to get around to doing pbotuner2


----------



## BNSoul

AXi0M said:


> I've noticed the same after installing W11 👌 but i've also noticed my L3 latency is higher in AIDA64 than W10 do you see the same @BNSoul ?


It's the same as always for me, between 11.8 and 12.4 (stock CPU, 1900 MHz 1:1:1)


----------



## AXi0M

BNSoul said:


> It's the same as always for me, between 11.8 and 12.4 (stock CPU, 1900 MHz 1:1:1)


Hmm... Ever since i installed W11 my L3 has been 13.2-13.8 where it used to be low 12's in W10 i really don't wanna reinstall again


----------



## fas7play

@*AXi0M *WIN11 lower then Build 22000.282?
-----
Which software/bench should I use to determine that the cpu is 100% stable?
y-cruncher and only running N64 is destroying my normal (R20/R23/games/etc..) stable settings - should i ignore it?


----------



## Imprezzion

K there is something fishy going on here.. I've been breaking my brain over why my single core scores in CPU-Z and CB R23 are so low despite seeing clocks and effective clocks go up to 4550 on core 0 just fine..

I use PBO2 Tuner with -23 all core daily. And a ASUS B550-A board with latest 1.2.0.7 AGESA BIOS. CPPC and Preferred Cores are enabled. 

When running completely stock limits and 0 CO in CPU-Z it runs 6320 multicore and 610 single core. When running -23 it runs 6470 multicore but only 592 single core.. why does my single core drop so hard.. it also wildly jumps around while benching.. but only single core.

So, I disabled Preferred Cores and tried again. Multicore is still 6470 and super consistent. Single core is still terrible.. 585-590 at best.. 

No extra processes running, clean boot, no monitoring software running.. W11 22H2 fully updated.. but.. it's a very old install. Maybe that's the problem?


----------



## AXi0M

fas7play said:


> @*AXi0M *WIN11 lower then Build 22000.282?
> -----
> Which software/bench should I use to determine that the cpu is 100% stable?
> y-cruncher and only running N64 is destroying my normal (R20/R23/games/etc..) stable settings - should i ignore it?


nope latest W11 ver.22621.819


----------



## ilmazzo

AXi0M said:


> it was DX12 improvements that Nvidia pushed not DX11


good for nvidia users

I have a 5700xt


----------



## Akex

Hi, What is the argument used in task scheduler to configure EDC and TDC with PBO2 Tuner.
Thanks


----------



## AXi0M

Akex said:


> Hi, What is the argument used in task scheduler to configure EDC and TDC with PBO2 Tuner.
> Thanks


Stock power limits with a -30 would look like "-30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 -30 142 95 140 0"

You need all 4 after the curves for it to work, leave the 4th one at 0 since its max boost and it cannot go higher anyways.


----------



## mongoled

From what ive understood the main issue for pushing the 5800X3D to a higher frequency (assuming we can tame the heat) is the EDC limit.

Such a shame, I want to upgrade to this CPU to play, but will be in the same position I am with my 5600X, EDC limited ....


----------



## AXi0M

mongoled said:


> From what ive understood the main issue for pushing the 5800X3D to a higher frequency (assuming we can tame the heat) is the EDC limit.
> 
> Such a shame, I want to upgrade to this CPU to play, but will be in the same position I am with my 5600X, EDC limited ....


EDC limit on the X3D is 140A so unless your favorite game is y-cruncher you're not going to be EDC limited in games.

Just look at all the benchmarks... I wonder if the performance uplift compared to other 5000 chips is from the EDC limit?  Surely it's not the 3x increase in cache. /s


----------



## mongoled

AXi0M said:


> EDC limit on the X3D is 140A so unless your favorite game is y-cruncher you're not going to be EDC limited in games.
> 
> Just look at all the benchmarks... I wonder if the performance uplift compared to other 5000 chips is from the EDC limit?  Surely it's not the 3x increase in cache. /s


I should have been more specific, when I said play, I should have implied playing at tweaking the system 😅

So its not as per se the EDC limit that is restricting the max boost and the sustained all core boost but the lack of higher CPU voltage ?


----------



## AXi0M

mongoled said:


> I should have been more specific, when I said play, I should have implied playing at tweaking the system 😅
> 
> So its not as per se the EDC limit that is restricting the max boost and the sustained all core boost but the lack of higher CPU voltage ?


Max boost is limited by the chip itself, you cannot raise it higher than 4550mhz single core and 4450mhz all core. 

My sample would likely do 4.7-4.8 all core @stock voltage if i was able to. Stock runs ~4300mhz all core @ 1.25v and -30 curve offset gets me sustained 4450mhz all core @1.15v.


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

you guys still beta testing the 5800X3D?? has AMD launched a new BIOS/AGESA update?? since the AM5 launch all AM4 products were literally left hanging when all in fact AMD didn't even announced the AM4 EOL, they just said they will still support it with a few products in mind.


----------



## Imprezzion

kairi_zeroblade said:


> you guys still beta testing the 5800X3D?? has AMD launched a new BIOS/AGESA update?? since the AM5 launch all AM4 products were literally left hanging when all in fact AMD didn't even announced the AM4 EOL, they just said they will still support it with a few products in mind.


I still have silent hope they will magically release a 5900/5950X3D somehow.


----------



## AXi0M

kairi_zeroblade said:


> you guys still beta testing the 5800X3D?? has AMD launched a new BIOS/AGESA update?? since the AM5 launch all AM4 products were literally left hanging when all in fact AMD didn't even announced the AM4 EOL, they just said they will still support it with a few products in mind.


Last AGESA was 1.2.0.7 back in May. AM4 must be end of life since there hasn't been any bios updates in a couple months, I mean it's not like all vendors bios teams are busy with a new platform and memory optimization.


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

Imprezzion said:


> I still have silent hope they will magically release a 5900/5950X3D somehow.


Magic is too far fetched but I feel ya..



AXi0M said:


> Last AGESA was 1.2.0.7 back in May. AM4 must be end of life since there hasn't been any bios updates in a couple months, I mean it's not like all vendors bios teams are busy with a new platform and memory optimization.


I was left with the same impression, though unfortunately if AMD thinks the issues on AM4 are gone specifically with Zen 3 then they skipped their homework..we all paid a fair price for what they released which is half baked and only that "support" glues things to work together, I swear this next Ryzen Hype I won't fall for it. unlike Intel they still released microcode updates and a few more ones on their old platform. (resizable BAR support for some old platforms)


----------



## jootn2kx

Edit wrong section**


----------



## Frikencio

What would the cldo vddp be for 1.0 VSOC ?

And IOD / CCD


----------



## Clukos

Impressed this even boots to be honest.


----------



## Frikencio

Edit
That IS disgusting


----------



## Blameless

Frikencio said:


> What would the cldo vddp be for 1.0 VSOC ?


That one isn't linked to SOC voltage, but most configurations should work fine at 850-900mV.



Frikencio said:


> And IOD / CCD


IOD ~50mV less than full droop vSOC, and CCD 50mV below that, but not below 900mV, usually works.


----------



## BCB57

kairi_zeroblade said:


> Magic is too far fetched but I feel ya..
> 
> 
> 
> I was left with the same impression, though unfortunately if AMD thinks the issues on AM4 are gone specifically with Zen 3 then they skipped their homework..we all paid a fair price for what they released which is half baked and only that "support" glues things to work together, I swear this next Ryzen Hype I won't fall for it. unlike Intel they still released microcode updates and a few more ones on their old platform. (resizable BAR support for some old platforms)


There's a possibility you may have missed AXiOM's subtle sarcasm there...


----------



## itsygeek

Hello Guys, any idea how to fix this "SMU status failed" error message?

I tried googling and searching this forum as well and could not get a decent answer.
Note: I've installed Ryzen master


----------



## AXi0M

itsygeek said:


> Hello Guys, any idea how to fix this "SMU status failed" error message?
> 
> I tried googling and searching this forum as well and could not get a decent answer.
> Note: I've installed Ryzen master
> 
> View attachment 2582409


why are all your limits at 0?


----------



## RackarN

So i was trying to see if we were able to overclock through a old Asus program (Asus turboV) but it too won't do anything.. tho i tried the BCLK slider since my PC won't boot with anything above 102 and to my surprise it actually worked up to 103.4 🤷🏼‍♂️


----------



## lerian

Hello guys. I have an issue with 5800x3d. I have slow single core performance in cpuz . 598 to 602. I have cppc enable , preferred core disable and c-states enable.and -20 with pbotuner 2 . I use windows 11 22h2. Any advice?


----------



## Imprezzion

lerian said:


> Hello guys. I have an issue with 5800x3d. I have slow single core performance in cpuz . 598 to 602. I have cppc enable , preferred core disable and c-states enable.and -20 with pbotuner 2 . I use windows 11 22h2. Any advice?


I have the exact same results and setup. W11, 22h2 -20 or -23 all core, cppc enable preferred cores both enable or disable same result. Single core 595-600. 
Multi is 6470. I still don't know what causes it.. probably windows tho.


----------



## lerian

Imprezzion said:


> I have the exact same results and setup. W11, 22h2 -20 or -23 all core, cppc enable preferred cores both enable or disable same result. Single core 595-600.
> Multi is 6470. I still don't know what causes it.. probably windows tho.


Exact the same results. Is it an option to go back to win10? I don't know.


----------



## itsygeek

AXi0M said:


> why are all your limits at 0?


I am not sure. At one point in my previous windows install I was getting an actual reading and was able to override default values. Now after re-install of Windows it does not report actual figures nor can I set values to them. 

Update: Just figured out the LIMIT value overrides are working well. PBO2 tuner reports "0" if it is not readable. I'm unsure what needs to be done to make it readable.
But for now, I can see limits are being applied when I'm seeing readouts in Ryzen master.


----------



## AXi0M

Anyone else seeing better results with ram set to 2T instead of 1T GDM? I'm getting better latency and bandwidth in AIDA64/Y-Cruncher/Linpack with the same settings only changing 2T/1T GDM.

It's the opposite of my old 3600 build, I always thought GDM was better than 2T.


----------



## RackarN

AXi0M said:


> Anyone else seeing better results with ram set to 2T instead of 1T GDM? I'm getting better latency and bandwidth in AIDA64/Y-Cruncher/Linpack with the same settings only changing 2T/1T GDM.
> 
> It's the opposite of my old 3600 build, I always thought GDM was better than 2T.

















GDM 1T was faster or on par with 2t GDM OFF


----------



## Blameless

AXi0M said:


> Anyone else seeing better results with ram set to 2T instead of 1T GDM? I'm getting better latency and bandwidth in AIDA64/Y-Cruncher/Linpack with the same settings only changing 2T/1T GDM.
> 
> It's the opposite of my old 3600 build, I always thought GDM was better than 2T.


There is no GDM 1T, as commands can only be issued every other cycle with it.

All other things being equal GDM is worse than 2T...the difference is generally small if all relevant timings are even, and a bit more if it has to round anything up. The advantage to GDM is that it's less stressful, especially with certain ICs. Sometimes this is enough to allow tighter timings or higher memory clocks to be run.


----------



## gaojibao

Just upgraded from 5600x to a 5800x3d and to the AGESA 1.2.0.6c BIOS. I previously had SOC voltage at 1.125V, VDDP at 900mV, VDDG IO at 900mV, and VDDG CCD at 1V. On this BIOS apparently, there is just one VDDG voltage. I tried 950mV which is the average of the IO and CCD voltage I had, but the PC refused to boot. I'm currently running that VDDG voltage at 900mV. Anything above that doesn't boot. Luckily, my 3800MHz RAM OC is still stable.


----------



## Clukos

This is my daily with 2x16 DR, it won't clock as high as 2x8 SR but performance is better so I guess it's alright.


----------



## paih85

Clukos said:


> View attachment 2582805
> 
> 
> This is my daily with 2x16 DR, it won't clock as high as 2x8 SR but performance is better so I guess it's alright.


how about WHEA error? all good?


----------



## AXi0M

Clukos said:


> View attachment 2582805
> 
> 
> This is my daily with 2x16 DR, it won't clock as high as 2x8 SR but performance is better so I guess it's alright.


Might wanna do a 24hr stress to make sure that 125ns TRFC isn't gonna cause any problems for daily. 125ns is pretty tight at only 1.5v


----------



## zixsie

Clukos said:


> View attachment 2582805
> 
> 
> This is my daily with 2x16 DR, it won't clock as high as 2x8 SR but performance is better so I guess it's alright.


Looks really good.

Can you do some gaming benchmarks with CPU heavy games and report about the memory scaling performance improvement?


----------



## Imprezzion

AXi0M said:


> Might wanna do a 24hr stress to make sure that 125ns TRFC isn't gonna cause any problems for daily. 125ns is pretty tight at only 1.5v


Agreed lol. I had 3 tRFC related errors at 240 / 3800 1.56v which is 126.xx ns in a 5 hour test and they only showed up like 3.5h into the test. 1h isn't enough for that. It will pass fine at 256 which is 134.xx ns tho. On 3933 at 1.45v I run 272 tRFC which is 138.3ns and is stable.


----------



## AXi0M

Imprezzion said:


> Agreed lol. I had 3 tRFC related errors at 240 / 3800 1.56v which is 126.xx ns in a 5 hour test and they only showed up like 3.5h into the test. 1h isn't enough for that. It will pass fine at 256 which is 134.xx ns tho. On 3933 at 1.45v I run 272 tRFC which is 138.3ns and is stable.


I've been running 290 @ 3866mhz equiling 150ns. I run 1.5vdimm, i dont even want to count the amount of times i've stress tested 261 (135ns) thinking it was stable, and wake up the next day just to see it threw errors 1500% into Memtest. It's such a pain to verify.


----------



## frankie90

AXi0M said:


> I've been running 290 @ 3866mhz equiling 150ns. I run 1.5vdimm, i dont even want to count the amount of times i've stress tested 261 (135ns) thinking it was stable, and wake up the next day just to see it threw errors 1500% into Memtest. It's such a pain to verify.


Wouldn’t we say 1500% is more than stable for daily? At least on a gaming rig, which I’m assuming were all running if we purchased a 5800x3D. At what point do we say enough is enough?


----------



## Melan

frankie90 said:


> At what point do we say enough is enough?


When you've done roasting your memory with the gpu. You can pass your memtest without furmark, but when you have big chungus blowing hot air at your memory sticks, all that overclock might just fall apart.


----------



## frankie90

Melan said:


> When you've done roasting your memory with the gpu. You can pass your memtest without furmark, but when you have big chungus blowing hot air at your memory sticks, all that overclock might just fall apart.


I agree with you on that, and that’s exactly what I did. But I ran mine to 1000% and called it quits. Why 1000%, I honestly don’t know, just seemed like “enough.” But I’m just wondering where we all call it enough.


----------



## Melan

frankie90 said:


> But I’m just wondering where we all call it enough.


You draw the line where you want to draw the line. Longer runs might produce single elusive errors... or not, and you've wasted t hours of your time, which only gets worse the more ram capacity you got.
I usually run TM5 universal1 profile with furmark which lasts around 1h30-1h50 iirc at 32gb. If that doesn't fail cascade, then I put the absolut profile (without furmark) which runs for around 3-4 hours.
Some call it quits much sooner. Others run it for days.


----------



## AXi0M

frankie90 said:


> Wouldn’t we say 1500% is more than stable for daily? At least on a gaming rig, which I’m assuming were all running if we purchased a 5800x3D. At what point do we say enough is enough?


For most timings yes 1500% is plenty. But for refresh cylcles on a daily system knowing they can be slowly eating away at your OS if they're unstable... TRFC is the kind of timing that can throw an error 10% into a test or 1000% into a test or anywhere in between.


----------



## Clukos

Passed 5 hours, no WHEA. Don't really wanna run this for 24h.


----------



## Clukos

This also has potential so I'm just going to leave it running overnight.


----------



## Imprezzion

Melan said:


> When you've done roasting your memory with the gpu. You can pass your memtest without furmark, but when you have big chungus blowing hot air at your memory sticks, all that overclock might just fall apart.


I put my line at 5h 1usmus 50 cycles. If it passes that it's fine for me. And that is why I have a full custom loop and active DIMM cooling with a Corsair Dominator Airflow cooler (on my G.Skill Trident-Z Neo's, fits just fine). Even during gaming I never see over 40c on 1.45 or over 44c on 1.56v. And that is with the Dominator running like 40% PWM. At 1.62v I raised it to 60%, still basically inaudible, and it got up to 46c but that's still fine. The OC I am running is stable at 55c so.


----------



## tabascosauz

frankie90 said:


> Wouldn’t we say 1500% is more than stable for daily? At least on a gaming rig, which I’m assuming were all running if we purchased a 5800x3D. At what point do we say enough is enough?


When it comes to HCI Memtest, I've had sporadic errors show up past 1500%. And that was on Hynix that isn't temp sensitive. One of the reasons I don't really use HCI anymore, I have the pro version so it's an easy 1-click option but it's just not very fast and not very demanding.

For my B-die setups I settled on 15-20 cycles anta777. Has worked pretty well for me, usually I'm able to keep it at the 45C mark at the end of the test when running 1.5-1.55V. 135ns and 138ns respectively doesn't seem to be tight enough to increase temp sensitivity. On my media PC I crank up the NF-R8s for the test, on my main the C14S handles the temps. I might switch over to absolut or 1usmus next time I need a long test.

For me I don't have any GPU load scenarios that get RAM hotter than TM5 testing (barely 41C max in the most demanding CPU+GPU load games), but everyone's setup is different, which is why it's always important to remember the GPU factor.


----------



## AXi0M

Clukos said:


> View attachment 2582924
> 
> 
> This also has potential so I'm just going to leave it running overnight.


Damn i can do 1933 @ low SOC but no matter what i try i just cant get it higher. Are you using any SOC load line or increase CPU1.8v?


----------



## Imprezzion

I still have no idea how to make boost clocks work with a BCLK that isn't 100.0.. every change I make to BCLK makes the CPU run at 35 multiplier max.. anyone on a ASUS board seen this before and know how to get around this?


----------



## Al75

Imprezzion said:


> I still have no idea how to make boost clocks work with a BCLK that isn't 100.0.. every change I make to BCLK makes the CPU run at 35 multiplier max.. anyone on a ASUS board seen this before and know how to get around this?


For the X3D asus boards are the worst ! except the Extreme.. i tried all bioses and litereally spent hours on each but behaviours are all ****ed up and even differer from 4006 to 4201.
I am on a Dark hero.
Also.. memory overclocking past 3800/1900 is dead... basically, no boot or when it does boot its whea errors no matter what..


----------



## Al75

Clukos said:


> View attachment 2582896
> 
> 
> Passed 5 hours, no WHEA. Don't really wanna run this for 24h.


NO whea ?!?!? wow..


----------



## RackarN

Imprezzion said:


> I still have no idea how to make boost clocks work with a BCLK that isn't 100.0.. every change I make to BCLK makes the CPU run at 35 multiplier max.. anyone on a ASUS board seen this before and know how to get around this?


What i did was set CPU core ratio (i think its called that...) to 46.. 45.5 is max so anything above will just be 45.5. Just for fun u could set 66 and some programs will say it runs 6.6ghz.

This is my 24/7. been rock solid for the past week









my win is kinda bloated i assume.. i get better score in safe mode.







A bit high voltage for SOC, IOD, CCD but if i lower them, i lose performance. Heat is not an issue tho.

for those running asus boards, you can also set BCLK, Vcore, SOC voltage from windows with Asus TurboV core. i cant boot with anything above 102, but in TurboV i can set it to 104 (tho it gives errors but still..) 102.4 is max i can set in windows, anything above loses performance because of errors,.




Al75 said:


> For the X3D asus boards are the worst ! except the Extreme.. i tried all bioses and litereally spent hours on each but behaviours are all ****ed up and even differer from 4006 to 4201.
> I am on a Dark hero.
> Also.. memory overclocking past 3800/1900 is dead... basically, no boot or when it does boot its whea errors no matter what..


🤔 My TUF X570 is fine as u can se above.


----------



## Al75

RackarN said:


> What i did was set CPU core ratio (i think its called that...) to 46.. 45.5 is max so anything above will just be 45.5. Just for fun u could set 66 and some programs will say it runs 6.6ghz.
> 
> This is my 24/7. been rock solid for the past week
> View attachment 2583037
> 
> 
> my win is kinda bloated i assume.. i get better score in safe mode.
> View attachment 2583037
> 
> A bit high voltage for SOC, IOD, CCD but if i lower them, i lose performance. Heat is not an issue tho.
> 
> for those running asus boards, you can also set BCLK, Vcore, SOC voltage from windows with Asus TurboV core. i cant boot with anything above 102, but in TurboV i can set it to 104 (tho it gives errors but still..) 102.4 is max i can set in windows, anything above loses performance because of errors,.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 🤔 My TUF X570 is fine as u can se above.


You put 46 in ratio ? (i dont get it) then your multiplier will get stuck at 36, infact your screenshots are showing 44.5 wich is max stock multiplier, increasing BCLK isn't a problem.. i have it working tested till 103.9375, wich is pointless cause only single core is going to benefit from it.. multicore will give you lower scores than just running CO -30 and 100 BCLK.. and not because errors but cause clock streching ! 
Example 102x44.5 BCLK = 4539 you are going to read that number but if you check your effective clock is way lower.


----------



## Imprezzion

I did have the multi set to Auto yes. Maybe that was the problem. I'll manually set 45.5 (as I want single core boost to work obviously) or 44.5 if that doesn't work and see what happens. It does run fine with BCLK on 103.2 so far in regards to the M.2 and GPU but couldn't test CPU as it locked to 35.


----------



## RackarN

id say its about the same  And when i set CPU Core Ratio it boosts as it should. If i set it to auto its stuck. Also yes, for multi core 44.5 is max, 45.5 is max with 2 - 3 cores loaded (think the image shows that from HWinfo)



Imprezzion said:


> I did have the multi set to Auto yes. Maybe that was the problem. I'll manually set 45.5 (as I want single core boost to work obviously) or 44.5 if that doesn't work and see what happens. It does run fine with BCLK on 103.2 so far in regards to the M.2 and GPU but couldn't test CPU as it locked to 35.


Yeah when i set core ratio it boosts like it should. So on the Asus AI tweaker page thats where i set it to 46 (yes, max is still 45.5 but anyways..)
on some Asus motherboards you also have to make sure Core performance boost is enabled, mine only has Auto or Disable so for me Auto works. On some you have to set it do Enable because Auto + BCLK doesnt play well.


----------



## Al75

RackarN said:


> View attachment 2583046
> id say its about the same  And when i set CPU Core Ratio it boosts as it should. If i set it to auto its stuck. Also yes, for multi core 44.5 is max, 45.5 is max with 2 - 3 cores loaded (think the image shows that from HWinfo) Yeah when i set core ratio it boosts like it should. So on the Asus AI tweaker page thats where i set it to 46 (yes, max is still 45.5 but anyways..) on some Asus motherboards you also have to make sure Core performance boost is enabled, mine only has Auto or Disable so for me Auto works. On some you have to set it do Enable because Auto + BCLK doesnt play well.


 I am aware of these things.. however my MB behaves different.. even from bios 4006 to 4201, so again as i said.. for the X3D Asus are the less consistent.. MSI and Gogabyte are working much better or at least with the right logic.


----------



## Al75

sorry dont know.. it double posted.. 

I am aware of these things.. however my MB behaves different.. even from bios 4006 to 4201, so again as i said.. for the X3D Asus are the less consistent.. MSI and Gigabyte are working much better or at least with the right logic.


----------



## RackarN

I dont have statistics so i cant say anything about that, sounds odd tho.

Just remembered it was CB23 that shows what u set in BIOS  
(just for fun...)


----------



## Al75

Al75 said:


> I am aware of these things.. however my MB behaves different.. even from bios 4006 to 4201, so again as i said.. for the X3D Asus are the less consistent.. MSI and Gigabyte are working much better or at least with the right logic.





RackarN said:


> I dont have statistics so i cant say anything about that, sounds odd tho.
> 
> Just remembered it was CB23 that shows what u set in BIOS
> (just for fun...)
> View attachment 2583052


i can't use the Ratio at all.. if i touch it whatever value i use i go at 36 and yes all other settings and options are on point as they should to make it working but no, it doesn't


----------



## Al75

RackarN said:


> I dont have statistics so i cant say anything about that, sounds odd tho.
> 
> Just remembered it was CB23 that shows what u set in BIOS
> (just for fun...)
> View attachment 2583052


BTW.. are you on AGESA 1.2.06 or 07 ?


----------



## RackarN

Al75 said:


> BTW.. are you on AGESA 1.2.06 or 07 ?


AGESA V2 PI 1.2.0.7


----------



## Al75

RackarN said:


> AGESA V2 PI 1.2.0.7


 thank you.. still something odd.. are you using snapshot polling in hwinfo? if yes and want do the same disabled or viceversa.. that will make things clearer.. thank you


----------



## RackarN

I have no idea what that is  might look into it a bit later, need to make dinner.


----------



## Al75

RackarN said:


> I have no idea what that is  might look into it a bit later, need to make dinner.


that's important you do it! cause that will show a better reality, go hwinfo settings and on the lower left you'll find the option, enable it, reboot hwinfo and will show you real cpu effective clocks.. 
that's a thing for all amds CPUs.
enjoy your dinner


----------



## RackarN

Interesting. Need to see if i forgot to start pbo2 tuner after dinner  see ya in a bit


----------



## Al75

RackarN said:


> View attachment 2583063
> 
> 
> Interesting. Need to see if i forgot to start pbo2 tuner after dinner  see ya in a bit


yes bear in mind that all my talk since the beginning was related to pure bclk.. if you include CO into bclk it's going to be a mess.. set your mb on default and just work on bclk and ratio, forget PBO for now, stay on zero. you'll see all odd behaviours i was talking about


----------



## Al75

RackarN said:


> View attachment 2583063
> 
> 
> Interesting. Need to see if i forgot to start pbo2 tuner after dinner  see ya in a bit












look.. this is my score at stock, not even ram is tuned.. almost your score with pbo and bclk, as you see something fishy is going on..


----------



## RackarN

Pbo is only from the windows app since the x3d won't apply anything from bios or it's hidden :/


----------



## Al75

RackarN said:


> Pbo is only from the windows app since the x3d won't apply anything from bios or it's hidden :/


it doesn't matter.. as i said.. do not use PBO and repeat all your tests.. with just ratio and bclk


----------



## Al75

RackarN said:


> Pbo is only from the windows app since the x3d won't apply anything from bios or it's hidden :/


P.s. the CB you see above was boosting 4400/4410 all cores


----------



## RackarN

Al75 said:


> P.s. the CB you see above was boosting 4400/4410 all cores


when i run mine stock, im not even close. Dropps to 4ghz or something.

Stock






102 BCLK






102 BCLK + PBO2 tuner


----------



## Al75

RackarN said:


> when i run mine stock, im not even close. Dropps to 4ghz or something.
> 
> Stock
> View attachment 2583084
> 102 BCLK
> View attachment 2583085
> 102 BCLK + PBO2 tuner
> View attachment 2583086


than now you see the reality of what i am saying.. now i am on Agesa 1.2.06.. wich i find better than 1.2.07 and give for whatever reason better scoring/boost behaviours.. keep in mind i am on a dark hero, you should try revert to ages 1.2.06 and see what happens


----------



## Al75

RackarN said:


> when i run mine stock, im not even close. Dropps to 4ghz or something.
> 
> Stock
> View attachment 2583084
> 102 BCLK
> View attachment 2583085
> 102 BCLK + PBO2 tuner
> View attachment 2583086


also.. the problem with your scoring is temperauture.. that's why you aint boosting that much, over 77 c' cpu will slowly start loosing boost


----------



## Al75

RackarN said:


> when i run mine stock, im not even close. Dropps to 4ghz or something.
> 
> Stock
> View attachment 2583084
> 102 BCLK
> View attachment 2583085
> 102 BCLK + PBO2 tuner
> View attachment 2583086


in the 102 bclk test, you are probably throttling.. it is reporting over 140 W ! package.. wich is crazy since 142 its max and this is just CB not something really heavy like prime or y-cruncher


----------



## Al75

RackarN said:


> when i run mine stock, im not even close. Dropps to 4ghz or something.
> 
> Stock
> View attachment 2583084
> 102 BCLK
> View attachment 2583085
> 102 BCLK + PBO2 tuner
> View attachment 2583086












This how i am boosting at stock in CB, also check on top my vids and comprare to yours.. your voltages are out of control.. (it seems)


----------



## RackarN

Al75 said:


> also.. the problem with your scoring is temperauture.. that's why you aint boosting that much, over 77 c' cpu will slowly start loosing boost


Yeah 1.32v full load is kinda nuts, i have to run it 0.00435 undervolted. Gonna see what i can find.


----------



## Al75

RackarN said:


> Yeah 1.32v full load is kinda nuts, i have to run it 0.00435 undervolted. Gonna see what i can find.


watch out cause undervolting is a big cause of core streching.. the more you undervolt the more you stretch your cores, it will look better on temps but your clock will get worst and so performances..


----------



## RackarN

Al75 said:


> watch out cause undervolting is a big cause of core streching.. the more you undervolt the more you stretch your cores, it will look better on temps but your clock will get worst and so performances..


Yup! I always look for sweetspot so i can clearly see when it starts to clock lower. Just flashed bios, gonna see what stock does.

Higher clocks stock for sure, and 70 degrees (1.2v i think it was) even tho i set 1.2 in bios it wouldnt klock as high so older bios seems better in that regard. 4.45 GHz is still the most it will clock @ 15 000 CB23 (this is with pbo just to compare.)


----------



## Al75

RackarN said:


> Yup! I always look for sweetspot so i can clearly see when it starts to clock lower. Just flashed bios, gonna see what stock does.
> 
> Higher clocks stock for sure, and 70 degrees (1.2v i think it was) even tho i set 1.2 in bios it wouldnt klock as high so older bios seems better in that regard. 4.45 GHz is still the most it will clock @ 15 000 CB23 (this is with pbo just to compare.)


sounds better.. yeah, however there are still odd things all around.. with bclk, boost peaks, voltages etc.. i dont know and i already wasted so much time.. for example check if you can boost single core 4550 on each core, use boost tester from Mannix, you can find it here in the forum


----------



## RackarN

Al75 said:


> sounds better.. yeah, however there are still odd things all around.. with bclk, boost peaks, voltages etc.. i dont know and i already wasted so much time.. for example check if you can boost single core 4550 on each core, use boost tester from Mannix, you can find it here in the forum


Really odd behavior for sure. I think Asus was smarter than us mortals.. as soon as BCLK goes above 100 the core ratio goes down to match 4.45 GHz all core. That's why I could see memory improvements.


----------



## Imprezzion

Fixed the multiplier with BCLK on my B550-A. Manually setting the multi works fine. This is 102.3. It does absolutely YEET the vCore on Auto.. Might have to use a quite huge offset... Oh btw, this vCore is WITH a -20 CO offset. 0 is like 1.512v..









EDIT. Remind me to NEVER do that again. I went to 103.4 and it wouldn't POST. So I power cycled it, it POST, vCore was over 1.66v in the BIOS alone... Turned it off, CMOS CLR. Nothing. CPU light and boot loop before POST. I sure hope I didn't nuke the CPU..

Do NOT trust Auto vCore and LLC on every board when using BCLK + 44.5 multi manually!


----------



## Al75

Imprezzion said:


> Fixed the multiplier with BCLK on my B550-A. Manually setting the multi works fine. This is 102.3. It does absolutely YEET the vCore on Auto.. Might have to use a quite huge offset... Oh btw, this vCore is WITH a -20 CO offset. 0 is like 1.512v..
> View attachment 2583150


On B550 every interaction with BCLK is way better than x570.. and memory overclocking too.. this why i will probably buy a B550 MB for this cpu, i had it for a 5950x and was fine but if Asus wont unlock these things bclk is the best option and so B550 is the way to go..


----------



## Al75

RackarN said:


> Really odd behavior for sure. I think Asus was smarter than us mortals.. as soon as BCLK goes above 100 the core ratio goes down to match 4.45 GHz all core. That's why I could see memory improvements.


Yeah.. "lol" this is why with crosshair extreme and voltage suspension this doesn't happens.... but i think that on a couple of B550 mb is possible without a 800 Eu MB, like the unify B550 and the B550 aorus master


----------



## Al75

Imprezzion said:


> Fixed the multiplier with BCLK on my B550-A. Manually setting the multi works fine. This is 102.3. It does absolutely YEET the vCore on Auto.. Might have to use a quite huge offset... Oh btw, this vCore is WITH a -20 CO offset. 0 is like 1.512v..
> View attachment 2583150
> 
> 
> EDIT. Remind me to NEVER do that again. I went to 103.4 and it wouldn't POST. So I power cycled it, it POST, vCore was over 1.66v in the BIOS alone... Turned it off, CMOS CLR. Nothing. CPU light and boot loop before POST. I sure hope I didn't nuke the CPU..


Are you using snapshot polling ? if not, what you read is not completely real


----------



## RackarN

This should work since it ran 2040/4080 before but i know i would think about it until its really tested.. -_-


----------



## Al75

RackarN said:


> This should work since it ran 2040/4080 before but i know i would think about it until its really tested.. -_-
> View attachment 2583155


nice... run a script at boot in task scheduler to move to very low priority both aquasuite service and aquasuite helper, (if you use them), they consume 3/4 ns latency lol.. its crazy but.. lowering priority let you recover a little bit.


----------



## Imprezzion

Al75 said:


> Are you using snapshot polling ? if not, what you read is not completely real


I noticed.. I turned it on and it's showing 4550 but barely running 37xx effective with snapshot. Score is like 12800 in CB R23. So it's still bugged lol.

CPU is not dead, it's running fine. It just completely corrupted the BIOS with the too high BCLK and the CPU is fine for now.


----------



## RackarN

Al75 said:


> nice... run a script at boot in task scheduler to move to very low priority both aquasuite service and aquasuite helper, (if you use them), they consume 3/4 ns latency lol.. its crazy but.. lowering priority let you recover a little bit.


Yeah i dont have it installed anymore, i just set a profile and then uninstalled it. It's great that HWinfo still can read it atleast  Tho, there is still 4ns to be gained when i boot to safe mode, and my system is pretty clean -_- aida being aida i assume. lets see if it passes 100 rounds this time around


----------



## Al75

Imprezzion said:


> I noticed.. I turned it on and it's showing 4550 but barely running 37xx effective with snapshot. Score is like 12800 in CB R23. So it's still bugged lol.
> 
> CPU is not dead, it's running fine. It just completely corrupted the BIOS with the too high BCLK and the CPU is fine for now.


yeah you get corruption but clearing it will fix ... happy you still alive, as i said and you saw those adjustment are placebo, you can still increase bclk and use PBO2 and improve performances.. but all values will not get rounded at all and it'll be a core streching festival..
Forgot to say you'll mostly increase single core performance yes.. ans quite some but, multi mehhh it will be a mess


----------



## cheddardonkey

I'm a rookie but is this the best I can get out of the 5800X3D with an Asus Tuf X570-PLUS ?
Memory is 32GB CL16 Corsair Vengeance running at 3800mhz, FCLK 1900mhz
PBO2, -30 all cores


----------



## RackarN

cheddardonkey said:


> View attachment 2583158
> 
> 
> I'm a rookie but is this the best I can get out of the 5800X3D with an Asus Tuf X570-PLUS ?
> Memory is 32GB CL16 Corsair Vengeance running at 3800mhz, FCLK 1900mhz
> PBO2, -30 all cores


I'm not at the PC now but both single and multi core should be a bit higher. I would say 630+ single, multi i can't remember. Seems like the CPU wants more CPU so u don't get all the performance. How much do you get in Cinebench r23?

Also: i just found out that latest bios ****s boost clocks, i just flashed 2nd to last bios and got much better performance stock. (I also have the tid gaming plus


----------



## Al75

cheddardonkey said:


> View attachment 2583158
> 
> 
> I'm a rookie but is this the best I can get out of the 5800X3D with an Asus Tuf X570-PLUS ?
> Memory is 32GB CL16 Corsair Vengeance running at 3800mhz, FCLK 1900mhz
> PBO2, -30 all cores


those cpu-z scores are little low.. is your windows bloated ?
625 and 6480 here.
try to run it in safe mode and see the difference.. you'll understand where the problem is, OS or Bios


----------



## 1ah1

Is there any difference between (4x8) 3733mhz cl14 or (2x16) 3800mhz cl14?


----------



## Al75

1ah1 said:


> Is there any difference between (4x8) 3733mhz cl14 or (2x16) 3800mhz cl14?


literally few mb bandwidth.. thats it.. also, depends on the MB but probably running CL14 at 3800 will cost you more ram voltage than at 3733.. so.. its all open and depends


----------



## cheddardonkey

Al75 said:


> those cpu-z scores are little low.. is your windows bloated ?
> 625 and 6480 here.
> try to run it in safe mode and see the difference.. you'll understand where the problem is, OS or Bios


Thank you. In safe mode I'm getting 625/6366 which is an improvement so Id say it's OS. But how do you narrow that down further?


----------



## lerian

cheddardonkey said:


> Thank you. In safe mode I'm getting 625/6366 which is an improvement so Id say it's OS. But how do you narrow that down further?


Same **** my friend. 602 and 6400 not in safe mode. Very low single core score. The only solution is to return to windows 10


----------



## Al75

cheddardonkey said:


> Thank you. In safe mode I'm getting 625/6366 which is an improvement so Id say it's OS. But how do you narrow that down further?


for sure the OS.. but anyway 6366 in safe mode its defo pretty low, could be either temps or something else...


----------



## Al75

lerian said:


> Same **** my friend. 602 and 6400 not in safe mode. Very low single core score. The only solution is to return to windows 10


aaah yes.. even for the same guy before, forgot about it.. yeah win 11 single score is much worst.. like L3 latency


----------



## cheddardonkey

Al75 said:


> for sure the OS.. but anyway 6366 in safe mode its defo pretty low, could be either temps or something else...


Thanks, temps are quite low.. must be something else.


----------



## Imprezzion

I discovered another weird thing with my board. CPU 1.8 or VDD1.8 as it's called here, can't go below 1.80v. Anything lower just goes to Auto... All these things combined really make me wanna pick up a NZXT N7 B550 for black friday / on sale. It's currently €199.90 shipped here locally which still isn't exactly cheap but it has a USB-C header, WiFi, way better LAN, seems to clock RAM pretty well.. 

There's plenty of boards out there but I need a white one to match my build and the N7 is probably the best white board out there. And no, we don't count the Gigabyte X570S Aero G, that thing is fugly.


----------



## Owterspace

Stock voltage is 1.3 which makes it very easy to hit the 143w PPT. Increasing clocks past default is pointless if it can’t use them because you will always be limited by socket power.


----------



## AXi0M

Imprezzion said:


> I discovered another weird thing with my board. CPU 1.8 or VDD1.8 as it's called here, can't go below 1.80v. Anything lower just goes to Auto... All these things combined really make me wanna pick up a NZXT N7 B550 for black friday / on sale. It's currently €199.90 shipped here locally which still isn't exactly cheap but it has a USB-C header, WiFi, way better LAN, seems to clock RAM pretty well..
> 
> There's plenty of boards out there but I need a white one to match my build and the N7 is probably the best white board out there. And no, we don't count the Gigabyte X570S Aero G, that thing is fugly.


why do you need CPU 1.8V below 1.8?


----------



## AXi0M

Owterspace said:


> Stock voltage is 1.3 which makes it very easy to hit the 143w PPT. Increasing clocks past default is pointless if it can’t use them because you will always be limited by socket power.


with a -30 curve offset voltage is only around 1.15v 105W in R23 i just want them to add the 200Mhz boost override like other Ryzen 5000 chips


----------



## tabascosauz

Imprezzion said:


> I discovered another weird thing with my board. CPU 1.8 or VDD1.8 as it's called here, can't go below 1.80v. Anything lower just goes to Auto... All these things combined really make me wanna pick up a NZXT N7 B550 for black friday / on sale. It's currently €199.90 shipped here locally which still isn't exactly cheap but it has a USB-C header, WiFi, way better LAN, seems to clock RAM pretty well..
> 
> There's plenty of boards out there but I need a white one to match my build and the N7 is probably the best white board out there. And no, we don't count the Gigabyte X570S Aero G, that thing is fugly.


B550 Vision D-P?

Let's be real, 199eur is a steep price to pay for a dressed up Steel Legend

Not sure why you need 1.8 PLL to go below 1.8........stock is 1.8, you go higher to [potentially] help FCLK


----------



## Imprezzion

tabascosauz said:


> B550 Vision D-P?
> 
> Let's be real, 199eur is a steep price to pay for a dressed up Steel Legend
> 
> Not sure why you need 1.8 PLL to go below 1.8........stock is 1.8, you go higher to [potentially] help FCLK


I saw someone, I think in the AMD memory OC topic, mention that dropping it to like 1.6-1.7v can save quite a lot of temperature and power budget. And I thought, heck why not. I lowered it all the time on Intel.. and I probably don't need it at 1900 IF. I can run up to 1967 on 1.80v just fine without WHEA.

B550 Vision D-P is beautiful and has dual 2.5g, wifi 6, a USB-C header, full 4.0 dual m.2.. it's perfect lol. However. It's also impossible to get in the Netherlands. Only through Amazon for like €305...


----------



## Fight Game

AXi0M said:


> i just want them to add the 200Mhz boost override like other Ryzen 5000 chips


It already beats or comes within a small margin of everything out right now in gaming. If this or any more can be done, they aren't going to unlock more options until the newer x3d chips come out, if at all. it'd be a pretty bad business decision. Only option at this point might be with a hacked bios


----------



## cheddardonkey

cheddardonkey said:


> Thanks, temps are quite low.. must be something else.





Al75 said:


> aaah yes.. even for the same guy before, forgot about it.. yeah win 11 single score is much worst.. like L3 latency


Thx guys.. You gave me a reason for an overdue fresh install and revert back to win 10 which I prefer anyways.

New score after the fresh win 10, 620 / 6510 , decent gains from 599 / 6233


----------



## AXi0M

cheddardonkey said:


> Thx guys.. You gave me a reason for an overdue fresh install and revert back to win 10 which I prefer anyways.
> 
> New score after the fresh win 10, 620 / 6510 , decent gains from 599 / 6233


Fresh(ish) W11 seems about the same as 10


----------



## lerian

AXi0M said:


> Fresh(ish) W11 seems about the same as 10
> View attachment 2583215


You use pbotuner 2 or stock settings? Did you change anything from bios?


----------



## Imprezzion

AXi0M said:


> Fresh(ish) W11 seems about the same as 10
> View attachment 2583215


Is that on 22H2 or older W11? And preview / insider or regular channel?


----------



## Clukos

Al75 said:


> NO whea ?!?!? wow..


Idk, maybe I have very good quality 5800X3D? I can also run -30CO and -0.05mv offset in Prime95 small fft without instability.


----------



## tabascosauz

Imprezzion said:


> I saw someone, I think in the AMD memory OC topic, mention that dropping it to like 1.6-1.7v can save quite a lot of temperature and power budget. And I thought, heck why not. I lowered it all the time on Intel.. and I probably don't need it at 1900 IF. I can run up to 1967 on 1.80v just fine without WHEA.


First I've ever heard of it, would be interesting if you had the link. With -25/-30 and reasonable limits X3D already runs about as cool Zen 2/Zen 3 possibly can. I/O die really doesn't contribute much if anything to overall heat output. Didn't see any increase in Core power, SOC power or overall temps running higher 1.8 PLL, so kinda skeptical it works in the same way going in the other direction.


----------



## AXi0M

lerian said:


> You use pbotuner 2 or stock settings? Did you change anything from bios?


-30 offset in PBO Tuner and 3866cl16 mem



Imprezzion said:


> Is that on 22H2 or older W11? And preview / insider or regular channel?


W11 22h2 latest 22621 build


----------



## Imprezzion

tabascosauz said:


> First I've ever heard of it, would be interesting if you had the link. With -25/-30 and reasonable limits X3D already runs about as cool Zen 2/Zen 3 possibly can. I/O die really doesn't contribute much if anything to overall heat output. Didn't see any increase in Core power, SOC power or overall temps running higher 1.8 PLL, so kinda skeptical it works in the same way going in the other direction.


EDIT: Found the post I was talking about.








[Official] AMD Ryzen DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


Hello everyone, So I had my 5950x running on a Crosshair VII Hero but I needed another pc, so I got a Dark Hero for the 5950x and the Vii Hero got a brand new 5800X. Problem is, I can't for the life of me boot at 1900mhz fclk, 1866 will work, 1933 will work, but 1900 won't. 1933 has WHEA...




www.overclock.net





I don't have power or temp issues at the moment just running CO -30, it holds 4450 just fine even in Cinebench R23 and CPU-Z (score around 15100 multicore R23 and 6470 CPU-Z) but when I was playing with a bit of BCLK 102.3 for 4550 all core it struggled a lot. CO is kinda buggy with BCLK thrown in the mix so I had to use a offset vCore to lower it and it ran into EDC limits quite quickly. Barely held 41xx multicore, so I tried to find ways to get around that. Setting a higher limit in PBO2 Tuner for TDC EDC PPT didn't actually raise the clocks at all so..

I think I'll just not use BCLK OC and stick with -30 on stock BCLK. It runs great that way. Doesn't even crack 100w in benches and stays under 80w most of the times while gaming @ 1.169v vCore.


----------



## AXi0M

Imprezzion said:


> EDIT: Found the post I was talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Official] AMD Ryzen DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread
> 
> 
> Hello everyone, So I had my 5950x running on a Crosshair VII Hero but I needed another pc, so I got a Dark Hero for the 5950x and the Vii Hero got a brand new 5800X. Problem is, I can't for the life of me boot at 1900mhz fclk, 1866 will work, 1933 will work, but 1900 won't. 1933 has WHEA...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have power or temp issues at the moment just running CO -30, it holds 4450 just fine even in Cinebench R23 and CPU-Z (score around 15100 multicore R23 and 6470 CPU-Z) but when I was playing with a bit of BCLK 102.3 for 4550 all core it struggled a lot. CO is kinda buggy with BCLK thrown in the mix so I had to use a offset vCore to lower it and it ran into EDC limits quite quickly. Barely held 41xx multicore, so I tried to find ways to get around that. Setting a higher limit in PBO2 Tuner for TDC EDC PPT didn't actually raise the clocks at all so..
> 
> I think I'll just not use BCLK OC and stick with -30 on stock BCLK. It runs great that way. Doesn't even crack 100w in benches and stays under 80w most of the times while gaming @ 1.169v vCore.


Yeah seems a -30 curve is just the way to go with these chips, runs soo cool and best boosting for its locked nature. the only bench i've seen slam the power while using -30 is y-cruncher 2.5b hits 135-140w even at only 1.15v


----------



## RackarN

Imprezzion said:


> EDIT: Found the post I was talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Official] AMD Ryzen DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread
> 
> 
> Hello everyone, So I had my 5950x running on a Crosshair VII Hero but I needed another pc, so I got a Dark Hero for the 5950x and the Vii Hero got a brand new 5800X. Problem is, I can't for the life of me boot at 1900mhz fclk, 1866 will work, 1933 will work, but 1900 won't. 1933 has WHEA...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have power or temp issues at the moment just running CO -30, it holds 4450 just fine even in Cinebench R23 and CPU-Z (score around 15100 multicore R23 and 6470 CPU-Z) but when I was playing with a bit of BCLK 102.3 for 4550 all core it struggled a lot. CO is kinda buggy with BCLK thrown in the mix so I had to use a offset vCore to lower it and it ran into EDC limits quite quickly. Barely held 41xx multicore, so I tried to find ways to get around that. Setting a higher limit in PBO2 Tuner for TDC EDC PPT didn't actually raise the clocks at all so..
> 
> I think I'll just not use BCLK OC and stick with -30 on stock BCLK. It runs great that way. Doesn't even crack 100w in benches and stays under 80w most of the times while gaming @ 1.169v vCore.


Pretty much the same conclusion as i had last night. Was able to run my 100 rounds over night so 2033/4066 is my infinity/mem clock now. Still no whea so I'm pretty satisfied with this. 1.14v on the CPU during load (CB23) seems to be a good spot for performance/efficiency on my chip. Needs further testing to see how much I can get IOD and SOC volt down. 1.2 soc was ok last evening, but 1.18 was too low.


----------



## Owterspace

It’s a nice little cpu if you run it within its limits. I saw some erratic behaviour when bclk clocking, the cpu did not like it. PBO tuner is nice. I saw those posts of 4700MHz, but seeing what it could do at stock, I really doubt it’s stability at those speeds.


----------



## Al75

Imprezzion said:


> I discovered another weird thing with my board. CPU 1.8 or VDD1.8 as it's called here, can't go below 1.80v. Anything lower just goes to Auto... All these things combined really make me wanna pick up a NZXT N7 B550 for black friday / on sale. It's currently €199.90 shipped here locally which still isn't exactly cheap but it has a USB-C header, WiFi, way better LAN, seems to clock RAM pretty well..
> 
> There's plenty of boards out there but I need a white one to match my build and the N7 is probably the best white board out there. And no, we don't count the Gigabyte X570S Aero G, that thing is fugly.


don't buy a NZXT MB lol ! i understand your needs but..


----------



## Al75

tabascosauz said:


> B550 Vision D-P?
> 
> Let's be real, 199eur is a steep price to pay for a dressed up Steel Legend
> 
> Not sure why you need 1.8 PLL to go below 1.8........stock is 1.8, you go higher to [potentially] help FCLK


This guy is right .. if you need a white mb go for this.. B550 Vision D-P , its pretty good.


----------



## Al75

Clukos said:


> Idk, maybe I have very good quality 5800X3D? I can also run -30CO and -0.05mv offset in Prime95 small fft without instability.


i can run crazy values stable on my chip as well.. but anything above 3800/1900 for me is whea.. and at least on my dark hero, i managed to reduce them quite some.. but absolutely not enough


----------



## Farih

Still no luck getting my ram back to 3800mhz CL14.
They used to run that before i upgraded to a 5800x3d so i know they can do it.

For the rest it seems to run pretty good though.

3733mhz CL14 and -25 all core.









CB23: 15173









CB20: 5905









CPUZ single 630 - Multi 6538









58.2ns









For sure if i can get 3800mhz CL14 to work ill drop under 58ns


----------



## Al75

Farih said:


> Still no luck getting my ram back to 3800mhz CL14.
> They used to run that before i upgraded to a 5800x3d so i know they can do it.
> 
> For the rest it seems to run pretty good though.
> 
> 3733mhz CL14 and -25 all core.
> View attachment 2583242
> 
> 
> CB23: 15173
> View attachment 2583243
> 
> 
> CB20: 5905
> View attachment 2583244
> 
> 
> CPUZ single 630 - Multi 6538
> View attachment 2583246
> 
> 
> 58.2ns
> View attachment 2583245
> 
> 
> For sure if i can get 3800mhz CL14 to work ill drop under 58ns


can't you boot 3800/1900 ?


----------



## Imprezzion

Farih said:


> Still no luck getting my ram back to 3800mhz CL14.
> They used to run that before i upgraded to a 5800x3d so i know they can do it.
> 
> For the rest it seems to run pretty good though.
> 
> 3733mhz CL14 and -25 all core.
> View attachment 2583242
> 
> 
> CB23: 15173
> View attachment 2583243
> 
> 
> CB20: 5905
> View attachment 2583244
> 
> 
> CPUZ single 630 - Multi 6538
> View attachment 2583246
> 
> 
> 58.2ns
> View attachment 2583245
> 
> 
> For sure if i can get 3800mhz CL14 to work ill drop under 58ns


It's GDM On 1T. Can you somehow get GDM Off 1T to run for example with AddrCmdSetup 56 / 60 and a bit more ClkDrvStr (30/40)? Should give a few less ns as well. We basically have the same board so. I can give you a screenshot of my 3800 1T profile later tonight?


----------



## RackarN

This is how i run my system now  pretty good since it only needs 1.14 while boosting allcore (CB23)







Forgot timings


----------



## Farih

Al75 said:


> can't you boot 3800/1900 ?


Nope, it wont do it :-(

Not with high voltages either.
Still need to try with 2 sticks instead of 4, maybe that will work.


Imprezzion said:


> It's GDM On 1T. Can you somehow get GDM Off 1T to run for example with AddrCmdSetup 56 / 60 and a bit more ClkDrvStr (30/40)? Should give a few less ns as well. We basically have the same board so. I can give you a screenshot of my 3800 1T profile later tonight?


Have seen a few screenshots from you 

Seen many others to, tryed a few things but its not happening 😭

If in the end i really cant get to 3800mhz anymore ill start trying 3733/3666mhz GDM off.



RackarN said:


> View attachment 2583247
> 
> 
> This is how i run my system now  pretty good since it only needs 1.14 while boosting allcore (CB23)
> View attachment 2583248
> Forgot timings


Your latency looks nice 
Your CB23 can/should be higher though


----------



## RackarN

Farih said:


> Your latency looks nice
> Your CB23 can/should be higher though


Yeah it's because of the undervolt  works great in games tho.


----------



## zixsie

RackarN said:


> Yeah it's because of the undervolt  works great in games tho.


Undervolt by using PBO2 Tuner should give you a better performance in CB23, due to the higher sustained clocks vs stock. So that is not the reason for sure.


----------



## RackarN

zixsie said:


> Undervolt by using PBO2 Tuner should give you a better performance in CB23, due to the higher sustained clocks vs stock. So that is not the reason for sure.


Depends on how much you undervolt in bios + pbo tuner -30. Mine is -0.04 i believe in bios. The lower i go, the lower the score because of core stretching or whatever it's called.


----------



## Al75

Farih said:


> Nope, it wont do it :-(
> 
> Not with high voltages either.
> Still need to try with 2 sticks instead of 4, maybe that will work.
> 
> 
> Have seen a few screenshots from you
> 
> Seen many others to, tryed a few things but its not happening 😭
> 
> If in the end i really cant get to 3800mhz anymore ill start trying 3733/3666mhz GDM off.
> 
> 
> 
> Your latency looks nice
> Your CB23 can/should be higher though


yeah.. having the same problem... no 3800/1900 and i really tried all possible combinations.. its simply a frequency hole and there's nothing we can do


----------



## Al75

RackarN said:


> View attachment 2583247
> 
> 
> This is how i run my system now  pretty good since it only needs 1.14 while boosting allcore (CB23)
> View attachment 2583248
> Forgot timings


it amazes me that you dont have wheas.. lottery in computer overclocking is key !


----------



## AXi0M

RackarN said:


> View attachment 2583247
> 
> 
> This is how i run my system now  pretty good since it only needs 1.14 while boosting allcore (CB23)
> View attachment 2583248
> Forgot timings


Damn very good Infinity Fabric, but what's the long term affect of VGGD/VDDP that high though?

Can have some weird behaviour/error correction going in the background on without WHEA's since your copy bandwidth is so low for your frequency.
L3 cache tends to slow down to ~570-580GB/s aswell from the usual 610-630GB/s 

Bandwidth/Latency @3866cl16


----------



## RackarN

AXi0M said:


> Damn very good Infinity Fabric, but what's the long term affect of VGGD/VDDP that high though?
> 
> Can have some weird behaviour/error correction going in the background on without WHEA's since your copy bandwidth is so low for your frequency.
> L3 cache tends to slow down to ~570-580GB/s aswell from the usual 610-630GB/s
> 
> Bandwidth/Latency @3866cl16
> 
> View attachment 2583262


Time will tell i suppose  this CPU will most likely be kept for a while, and not the usual 2 year cycle. Only time copy was good on this memory kit was running unsynced at 4759mhz. At 1866 it was also pretty bad no matter what I did :/


----------



## tabascosauz

Imprezzion said:


> EDIT: Found the post I was talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Official] AMD Ryzen DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread
> 
> 
> Hello everyone, So I had my 5950x running on a Crosshair VII Hero but I needed another pc, so I got a Dark Hero for the 5950x and the Vii Hero got a brand new 5800X. Problem is, I can't for the life of me boot at 1900mhz fclk, 1866 will work, 1933 will work, but 1900 won't. 1933 has WHEA...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have power or temp issues at the moment just running CO -30, it holds 4450 just fine even in Cinebench R23 and CPU-Z (score around 15100 multicore R23 and 6470 CPU-Z) but when I was playing with a bit of BCLK 102.3 for 4550 all core it struggled a lot. CO is kinda buggy with BCLK thrown in the mix so I had to use a offset vCore to lower it and it ran into EDC limits quite quickly. Barely held 41xx multicore, so I tried to find ways to get around that. Setting a higher limit in PBO2 Tuner for TDC EDC PPT didn't actually raise the clocks at all so..
> 
> I think I'll just not use BCLK OC and stick with -30 on stock BCLK. It runs great that way. Doesn't even crack 100w in benches and stays under 80w most of the times while gaming @ 1.169v vCore.


About the 1.8 PLL, yeah I appreciate the testing they did there but that definitely falls into the anecdote category. Running 1.65V rn and not seeing any change in core temps at idle or load, Core power, SOC power or misc package power. Not that I blame them - Zen2/3 temp sensors are simply very erratic and unpredictable, without well-controlled tests it means very little (ie. 99% of the time doing Task A you'll see 60C, then one day you'll find HWInfo caught a 75C spike out of the blue, nothing is "wrong", just CPU being CPU).

I can't say yet if IO die temps have changed, but like I said, IO die thermals are basically irrelevant. SOC power is unchanged and that's what matters - if you wanna squeeze out more power budget for cores then lower VSOC and your CLDOs.

Our scores are very similar, looks optimal already. I understand the need to bench, but not running BCLK daily........X3D is designed not to care about clocks, and if that's what matters then even with BCLK it would be handily trounced 100% of the time by every other Vermeer CPU.


----------



## tabascosauz

RackarN said:


> Depends on how much you undervolt in bios + pbo tuner -30. Mine is -0.04 i believe in bios. The lower i go, the lower the score because of core stretching or whatever it's called.


If you're clock stretching significantly, try tweaking your limits. You want to be stuck like glue to 4450 on both core clock and effective.

-30 isn't guaranteed to be better. I hit consistently peak performance at -25, 105/80/100, 15000-15200. -30 is unpredictable and keeps me below 15k, even if it isn't unstable.


----------



## RackarN

True, without bios undervolt it should land around 15k, 200 above, 200 below can just be bloated windows as well. Gonna try -25 if its more consistent but -30 is locked 4450 on core and effective in CB


----------



## tabascosauz

RackarN said:


> True, without bios undervolt it should land around 15k, 200 above, 200 below can just be bloated windows as well. Gonna try -25 if its more consistent but -30 is locked 4450 on core and effective in CB


ah, I missed the -0.04, that can certainly do it. 

It's actually quite interesting. On -30 my scores are always all over the board, a wild spread of something like 600 points. No amount of + or - Vcore offset can save -30, apparently. On -25 every run I've ever made is between 15000 and 15200. In daily use I never noticed a difference, and both passed corecycler default settings so neither is _seriously _unstable. ymmv of course


----------



## RackarN

tabascosauz said:


> ah, I missed the -0.04, that can certainly do it.
> 
> It's actually quite interesting. On -30 my scores are always all over the board, a wild spread of something like 600 points. No amount of + or - Vcore offset can save -30, apparently. On -25 every run I've ever made is between 15000 and 15200. In daily use I never noticed a difference, and both passed corecycler default settings so neither is _seriously _unstable. ymmv of course


Removed UV from bios and got 15 088 and 15144 on -30 (ran 2 times just because) and on -20 it landed 15 089 - 15 132 margin of error i would say, but conclusion is that UV from bios is a goner since the temp was no big differance. Might just go with -25 since the scores are about the same on -20 and -30 and also temps.. good middleground for my mind to rest lol


----------



## ttnuagmada

I noticed PBO2 Tuner will let you set -50. does this actually work?


----------



## Nd4spdvn

ttnuagmada said:


> I noticed PBO2 Tuner will let you set -50. does this actually work?


No, it does not, it works up to -30. But if your mobo exposes in Bios vcore offset voltage you could "augment" the effect with a slight negative offset, though it is not quite the same thing (the offset moves the entire curve up/down)


----------



## RackarN

So.. my brain said "oh,.. try delid" and so i did.
3 capacitors got slized away and i had them in check until i somehow lost them... Brain goes "Oh well, lets see if it boots at least and have a expensive learning experience from this.." booted up, and it said new CPU installed as expected..
Ok, load old bios settings and wait for BSOD then!
Nothing... Windows loaded .
Hm ok, well memory test should give errors or BSOD
Nope.. power reporting in windows says 217% but around 107% when load..

So cinebench load should make it crash for sure!
Nope, same score..

Ooookey maybe a game...
Nope..

Ooookey TM5 25 rounds...
Nope.


So, either i was extremely lucky and it will run until it burns or the errors will soon show. Also to add to my pain, 0 gains in temp.

(Yeah.. I always want more .. and sometimes it turned to ****...)







found one of em bastards


----------



## Imprezzion

RackarN said:


> So.. my brain said "oh,.. try delid" and so i did.
> 3 capacitors got slized away and i had them in check until i somehow lost them... Brain goes "Oh well, lets see if it boots at least and have a expensive learning experience from this.." booted up, and it said new CPU installed as expected..
> Ok, load old bios settings and wait for BSOD then!
> Nothing... Windows loaded .
> Hm ok, well memory test should give errors or BSOD
> Nope.. power reporting in windows says 217% but around 107% when load..
> 
> So cinebench load should make it crash for sure!
> Nope, same score..
> 
> Ooookey maybe a game...
> Nope..
> 
> Ooookey TM5 25 rounds...
> Nope.
> 
> 
> So, either i was extremely lucky and it will run until it burns or the errors will soon show. Also to add to my pain, 0 gains in temp.
> 
> (Yeah.. I always want more .. and sometimes it turned to ****...)
> View attachment 2583374
> found one of em bastards


Oof interesting experience haha. And zero temp difference? That really shows how the construction of the die and 3D VCache limits the thermal performance more then even the IHS can. 

At least now I know not to lap mine to bare copper.


----------



## RackarN

Imprezzion said:


> Oof interesting experience haha. And zero temp difference? That really shows how the construction of the die and 3D VCache limits the thermal performance more then even the IHS can.
> 
> At least now I know not to lap mine to bare copper.


Yeah after i saw the capacitors i kinda rushed it all to see if it works or not but the liquid metal should be applied correctly 😂 man... Will be interesting to see the long term effect of this mess


----------



## ttnuagmada

Nd4spdvn said:


> No, it does not, it works up to -30. But if your mobo exposes in Bios vcore offset voltage you could "augment" the effect with a slight negative offset, though it is not quite the same thing (the offset moves the entire curve up/down)


I may look into that, Mine didn't bat an eye at -30. Set PBO 1 to 80/60/80 and im still slightly higher than stock speeds in Cinebench.


----------



## Nd4spdvn

ttnuagmada said:


> I may look into that, Mine didn't bat an eye at -30.


Same here while I was on Agesa 1207, however since I bumped the bus to 102 AND moved to Agesa 1206b which comes with slightly less vcore voltage overall, I noticed I need a small reduction here and there on a couple of cores (around -23 but all cores are now 4540 and single core 4640)


----------



## Slaughtahouse

RackarN said:


> snip


That image oddly reminds me of Salad Fingers.


----------



## gaojibao

I just returned my 5800X3D and bought a 13700K and an MSI Z690 A Pro. The input lag compared to my 5600X was unbearable.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

gaojibao said:


> I just returned my 5800X3D and bought a 13700K and an MSI Z690 A Pro. The input lag compared to my 5600X was unbearable.


The input lag of your 5800X3D was unbearable? Did you ever diagnose it to confirm it was simply the CPU? System latency (end to end latency) is dependent on a variety of factors and typically swapping a CPU alone, especially comparing high end offerings, won't make a noticeable impact. 









How To Reduce Lag - A Guide To Better System Latency


Optimize end to end system latency using NVIDIA Reflex technologies, PC changes, peripheral tweaks, and more.



www.nvidia.com


----------



## Burnxr

Hey, I recently bought a 5800x3d and the performance was insane and the temps were averageing around 78-83c under load but I googled and it was normal for the cpu so I wasn't worried but after around a week I noticed my games not being smooth anymore like the first week and then I noticed the temps were lower too like around low 70s to 60s and so I figured it wasn't using itself like it was before and I did a lot of diagnosing like reinstalling windows, chipset drivers, gpu drivers, windows scans, performance power plan, balanced power plan, but the issues remain and then I stumbled upon this in event viewer which I'm guessing to be the problem but I have no idea how to fix it. I really wana get my cpu back to week one performance it was so good if anyone knows how to fix this issue or suggestions that I haven't done I'd be grateful.








I'm not sure if it helps but the event id is 55 and task category 47. Other specs MOBO- msi x470 gaming plus gpu- 3080 ram- [email protected] PSU- 750W


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Burnxr said:


> Hey, I recently bought a 5800x3d and the performance was insane and the temps were averageing around 78-83c under load but I googled and it was normal for the cpu so I wasn't worried but after around a week I noticed my games not being smooth anymore like the first week and then I noticed the temps were lower too like around low 70s to 60s and so I figured it wasn't using itself like it was before and I did a lot of diagnosing like reinstalling windows, chipset drivers, gpu drivers, windows scans, performance power plan, balanced power plan, but the issues remain and then I stumbled upon this in event viewer which I'm guessing to be the problem but I have no idea how to fix it. I really wana get my cpu back to week one performance it was so good if anyone knows how to fix this issue or suggestions that I haven't done I'd be grateful.
> View attachment 2583433
> 
> I'm not sure if it helps but the event id is 55 and task category 47. Other specs MOBO- msi x470 gaming plus gpu- 3080 ram- [email protected] PSU- 750W


1. What version is your BIOS?
2. What CPU cooler are you using?
3. Do you have any info from HWiNFO (logs or screenshots) showing clock speeds, power, and temps under load? Drop a screenshot during a typical gaming load including all the CPU reporting info. 

My uneducated guess would be thermal throttling because the event clearly states "throttle percentage 16" but please share more info.


----------



## Globespy

Running 5800X3D on Aorus X570 Master with 2x16GB DDR4 3600Mhz.
Playing 'Satisfactory' right now and even with temps (Tctl/Tdie - so very accurate reading) at 46-48C max, most cores boost around 4.1Ghz, not the 4.45 that I see in Cinebench.
I see people saying their 5800X3D has all core max boost in gaming and would love to know how they are achieving this, with higher temperatures!

PBO2 Tuner at -30 all cores (100% stable - tested 24hrs in Core Cycler and everyday use since purchased on launch day), and have tried combinations of PPT/TDC/EDC without any real change to the boost clocks? Currently using 122/82/124 which seems recommended for gaming use.
CPU vCore True Internal (HWInfo64) is 1.15-1.16v in game.

Appreciate any feedback/ides on what I might be doing wrong?


----------



## Burnxr

Oops i meant to post as a reply


----------



## Burnxr

Slaughtahouse said:


> 1. What version is your BIOS?
> 2. What CPU cooler are you using?
> 3. Do you have any info from HWiNFO (logs or screenshots) showing clock speeds, power, and temps under load? Drop a screenshot during a typical gaming load including all the CPU reporting info.
> 
> My uneducated guess would be thermal throttling because the event clearly states "throttle percentage 16" but please share more info.


Hi thanks for the reply.Bios ver is 7B79vAL
CPU Cooler is DeepCoo lAK620
I don't have many things to test under load because I recently reset the pc to see if it would help but here is a pic while being in Limsa 








And a second pic of HWINFO during stress from CPUZ


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Burnxr said:


> Oops i meant to post as a reply


No problem. Can you share your screenshot extended like the user above? Showing clocks too?



Globespy said:


> Running 5800X3D on Aorus X570 Master with 2x16GB DDR4 3600Mhz.
> Playing 'Satisfactory' right now and even with temps (Tctl/Tdie - so very accurate reading) at 46-48C max, most cores boost around 4.1Ghz, not the 4.45 that I see in Cinebench.
> *I see people saying their 5800X3D has all core max boost in gaming and would love to know how they are achieving this, with higher temperatures!*
> 
> PBO2 Tuner at -30 all cores (100% stable - tested 24hrs in Core Cycler and everyday use since purchased on launch day), and have tried combinations of PPT/TDC/EDC without any real change to the boost clocks? Currently using 122/82/124 which seems recommended for gaming use.
> CPU vCore True Internal (HWInfo64) is 1.15-1.16v in game.
> 
> Appreciate any feedback/ides on what I might be doing wrong?


Is your snip from a game or Cinebench? If its in game, a game won't trigger the CPU to run a 4.45GHz on all cores. A few cores likely boost up to those speeds for a moment. Reported speeds looks normal to me.

Most people, including my self dont take snips from games. As they are *not* very CPU intensive on all cores.

Here is example from a ~1hr session of RE7. Not the most formatted sheet but you can deep dive into it if you'd like. Go to my filtered page and open up all the cores individually. Effective and core clocks. You'll see the real results. 








Resident Evil 7 - 3060 Ti (UV) + 5800X3D (-25CO)


Dashboard GPU DASHBOARD,CPU DASHBOARD AVG Temp [°C],AVG Voltage [V],AVG Power [W],AVG Clock [MHz],Ambient Room T [°C],CPU Die (average) [°C],CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) [V],CPU Package Power (SMU) [W],Core Clocks [MHz],Core Effective Clocks [MHz],Ambient Room T [°C] 61.4,0.873,169,1896,20,38.2,1...




docs.google.com


----------



## Imprezzion

Burnxr said:


> Hi thanks for the reply.Bios ver is 7B79vAL
> CPU Cooler is DeepCoo lAK620
> I don't have many things to test under load because I recently reset the pc to see if it would help but here is a pic while being in Limsa
> View attachment 2583453
> 
> And a second pic of HWINFO during stress from CPUZ
> View attachment 2583454


You showed basically everything important except actual core clocks hehe. It looks fine, nothing is too hot, nothing is power, TDC or EDC throttling.. no CO offset I see by the core voltage being this high but k. I'm guessing 3000Mhz memory 1:1 IF 1500 seems fine albeit the RAM is a bit slow.. Without knowing the core clocks I would say it seems fine. 

That BIOS does support the 5800X3D properly and is AGESA 1.2.0.7 so. No issues there either.


----------



## Globespy

Slaughtahouse said:


> No problem. Can you share your screenshot extended like the user above? Showing clocks too?
> 
> 
> 
> Is your snip from a game or Cinebench? If its in game, a game won't trigger the CPU to run a 4.45GHz on all cores. A few cores likely boost up to those speeds for a moment. Reported speeds looks normal to me.
> 
> Most people, including my self dont take snips from games. As they are *not* very CPU intensive on all cores.
> 
> Here is example from a ~1hr session of RE7. Not the most formatted sheet but you can deep dive into it if you'd like. Go to my filtered page and open up all the cores individually. Effective and core clocks. You'll see the real results.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Resident Evil 7 - 3060 Ti (UV) + 5800X3D (-25CO)
> 
> 
> Dashboard GPU DASHBOARD,CPU DASHBOARD AVG Temp [°C],AVG Voltage [V],AVG Power [W],AVG Clock [MHz],Ambient Room T [°C],CPU Die (average) [°C],CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) [V],CPU Package Power (SMU) [W],Core Clocks [MHz],Core Effective Clocks [MHz],Ambient Room T [°C] 61.4,0.873,169,1896,20,38.2,1...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docs.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2583457


Ehhh...so doing it's thing then.I
Any suggestions to changes in PPT/TDC/EDC since I have thermal headroom, or just leave where they are at if this machine is pretty much a purpose built gaming rig?


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Globespy said:


> Ehhh...so doing it's thing then.I
> Any suggestions to changes in PPT/TDC/EDC since I have thermal headroom, or just leave where they are at if this machine is pretty much a purpose built gaming rig?


Increasing limits is disabled. The CPU is pretty much set and forget. Run some of those optimized settings in the OP, set -CO to -25 or -30 on all cores and that’s basically it.

Tune ram if you got time to kill


----------



## Burnxr

Slaughtahouse said:


> No problem. Can you share your screenshot extended like the user above? Showing clocks too?



First picture is from Limsa on FF14 (Main City) Second picture is CPUZ stress test


----------



## Burnxr

Imprezzion said:


> You showed basically everything important except actual core clocks hehe. It looks fine, nothing is too hot, nothing is power, TDC or EDC throttling.. no CO offset I see by the core voltage being this high but k. I'm guessing 3000Mhz memory 1:1 IF 1500 seems fine albeit the RAM is a bit slow.. Without knowing the core clocks I would say it seems fine.
> 
> That BIOS does support the 5800X3D properly and is AGESA 1.2.0.7 so. No issues there either.


Hi sorry I posted the clocks in the above is there anything you see wrong I don't have much expertise in CPU's so I will take any advice.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Burnxr said:


> Hi sorry I posted the clocks in the above is there anything you see wrong I don't have much expertise in CPU's so I will take any advice.


 Not trying to be rude but you should show the entire snip in one shot. So we can see power, temps, and clocks all in one.

Ignoring the above, if I connect the new screenshots with the old, doesn’t seem to be a thermal throttle. 4.275 Ghz all core in a CPU test is typical on stock (without PBO2 desktop tool).

If performance is off vs. first week, doesn’t seem to be the CPU. Maybe I am missing something obvious here but the reports you’ve shared look normal. Let others chime in.


----------



## Burnxr

Slaughtahouse said:


> Not trying to be rude but you should show the entire snip in one shot. So we can see power, temps, and clocks all in one.
> 
> Ignoring the above, if I connect the new screenshots with the old, doesn’t seem to be a thermal throttle. 4.275 Ghz all core in a CPU test is typical on stock (without PBO2 desktop tool).
> 
> If performance is off vs. first week, doesn’t seem to be the CPU. Maybe I am missing something obvious here but the reports you’ve shared look normal. Let others chime in.


Hey sorry about the snip I changed the second monitor resolution to 4k to make more room cause I that's the only way I know to fit it all 
First picture is Limsa from ff14 (Main City) second is CPUZ stress test


----------



## Imprezzion

Burnxr said:


> Hey sorry about the snip I changed the second monitor resolution to 4k to make more room cause I that's the only way I know to fit it all
> First picture is Limsa from ff14 (Main City) second is CPUZ stress test
> View attachment 2583468
> View attachment 2583469


Completely normal values for stock without -CO. It's not the CPU.


----------



## Burnxr

Imprezzion said:


> Completely normal values for stock without -CO. It's not the CPU.


Really well that's a relief that it's not the CPU. Is the message from event viewer normal in the original post and thank you for your knowledge I appreciate it I'll probably look into other PC components to see if I can figure out what's wrong.


----------



## Globespy

Slaughtahouse said:


> Increasing limits is disabled. The CPU is pretty much set and forget. Run some of those optimized settings in the OP, set -CO to -25 or -30 on all cores and that’s basically it.
> 
> Tune ram if you got time to kill


Thank you for your reply!
I guess to be more precise, since I am running lower PPT/TDC/EDC than stock, would returning them to motherboard limits be worthwhile?
As for tuning RAM, I have pretty cruddy sticks so rather than introduce stability into an otherwise rock solid PC for minimal gains at best, seems like time I could use for other things.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Globespy said:


> Thank you for your reply!
> I guess to be more precise, since I am running lower PPT/TDC/EDC than stock, would returning them to motherboard limits be worthwhile?
> As for tuning RAM, I have pretty cruddy sticks so rather than introduce stability into an otherwise rock solid PC for minimal gains at best, seems like time I could use for other things.


Probably not but every chip behaves differently. You’d have to reduce limits pretty aggressively like an Eco 65w mode to regress performance and even then, games wouldn’t be impacted too hard.

Play more with your GPU if you want to save some power or reduce thermals. I also have so/so ram. I agree with that logic. I find it too cumbersome for the gains. Especially with this CPU that really helps minimize the latency penalty from RAM.


----------



## Globespy

Slaughtahouse said:


> Probably not but every chip behaves differently. You’d have to reduce limits pretty aggressively like an Eco 65w mode to regress performance and even then, games wouldn’t be impacted too hard.
> 
> Play more with your GPU if you want to save some power or reduce thermals. I also have so/so ram. I agree with that logic. I find it too cumbersome for the gains. Especially with this CPU that really helps minimize the latency penalty from RAM.


Would reducing the values a little further help with potentially better boot clocks if the temps are lower? Just trying to ensure I am getting the most from the CPU, then basically never look at it again.
I actually have really enjoyed the 5800X3D being locked down because I usually waste too much time tinkering for mediocre gains and quite often instability.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Q: Do any of your cores boost up to 4.55GHz in games? It’s a 2% difference in clocks vs. 4.45GHz so in reality, it doesn’t do much but if your reduced limits are preventing 4.55GHz, then its worth tweaking some back up. Like EDC.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Globespy said:


> Would reducing the values a little further help with potentially better boot clocks if the temps are lower? Just trying to ensure I am getting the most from the CPU, then basically never look at it again.
> I actually have really enjoyed the 5800X3D being locked down because I usually waste too much time tinkering for mediocre gains and quite often instability.


It sounds like a cop out answer but the precision boost algorithm with adjust based on all the various variables. So I can’t say for certain how each adjustment will impact your performance. I personally just use -CO in the PBO2 desktop tool but I bet you perf and power is very similar vs. modified limits.


----------



## Globespy

Slaughtahouse said:


> Q: Do any of your cores boost up to 4.55GHz in games? It’s a 2% difference in clocks vs. 4.45GHz so in reality, it doesn’t do much but if your reduced limits are preventing 4.55GHz, then its worth tweaking some back up. Like EDC.


I've never seen any core boost beyond 4.45Ghz in single or multi-core loads.
C23 is locked at 4.45Ghz all cores the entire duration of the run on multicore.
Single core never above 4.45Ghz regardless of settings, literally never recorded (HWInfo64) anything higher than 4.45Ghz.
Now I am worried something is wrong


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Globespy said:


> I've never seen any core boost beyond 4.45Ghz in single or multi-core loads.
> C23 is locked at 4.45Ghz all cores the entire duration of the run on multicore.
> Single core never above 4.45Ghz regardless of settings, literally never recorded (HWInfo64) anything higher than 4.45Ghz.
> Now I am worried something is wrong


Single core perf is up to 4.55Ghz. HWiNFO will show up to 3 cores hitting (not sustaining) in best case scenario during gaming.

Seeing 4.45Ghz on all cores in CB23 is better than stock. Which is around 4.3Ghz.

Again, it’s a 2% difference in clock speed (4550 / 4450). So no, nothing is wrong. You can keep tweaking but don’t pull your hair out.


----------



## tabascosauz

Globespy said:


> I've never seen any core boost beyond 4.45Ghz in single or multi-core loads.
> C23 is locked at 4.45Ghz all cores the entire duration of the run on multicore.
> Single core never above 4.45Ghz regardless of settings, literally never recorded (HWInfo64) anything higher than 4.45Ghz.
> Now I am worried something is wrong


Are you sure you don't see anything above 4450 in CPU-Z ST or R23 ST? Not even in safemode?

Outside of benchmarks and stress testing, it's rare to see 4550 in real world usage, especially on Win11 where game clocks are just generally lower.


----------



## gaojibao

Slaughtahouse said:


> The input lag of your 5800X3D was unbearable? Did you ever diagnose it to confirm it was simply the CPU? System latency (end to end latency) is dependent on a variety of factors and typically swapping a CPU alone, especially comparing high end offerings, won't make a noticeable impact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How To Reduce Lag - A Guide To Better System Latency
> 
> 
> Optimize end to end system latency using NVIDIA Reflex technologies, PC changes, peripheral tweaks, and more.
> 
> 
> 
> www.nvidia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2583418


Yes. I even ran out of thermal paste from constantly swapping the CPUs back and forth. I also tried downgrading to the AGESA 1.2.0.6c BIOS and the results were the same.


----------



## robocookie

Since the author of pbo2 doesn't wanna provide a source code, i'm on my way making my own that will replace all the guides and this tool whatsoever. Here is a sample so far. I will keep you guys updated with changes.


----------



## zixsie

robocookie said:


> Since the author of pbo2 doesn't wanna provide a source code, i'm on my way making my own that will replace all the guides and this tool whatsoever. Here is a sample so far. I will keep you guys updated with changes.
> 
> View attachment 2583554


This looks fantastic. Keep up the good work man ! Let us know if you need some help on beta testing etc.


----------



## AXi0M

robocookie said:


> Since the author of pbo2 doesn't wanna provide a source code, i'm on my way making my own that will replace all the guides and this tool whatsoever. Here is a sample so far. I will keep you guys updated with changes.
> 
> View attachment 2583554


As long as it closes after applying at startup like the original then it'll be great


----------



## Imprezzion

robocookie said:


> Since the author of pbo2 doesn't wanna provide a source code, i'm on my way making my own that will replace all the guides and this tool whatsoever. Here is a sample so far. I will keep you guys updated with changes.
> 
> View attachment 2583554


Looking fantastic. Way better clean GUI. Like @AXi0M said, as long as creating a scheduled task will not leave background windows or processes open after boot it would be amazing.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

AXi0M said:


> As long as it closes after applying at startup like the original then it'll be great


Edit: Agreed!

@robocookie - I don't know the amount of effort it requires but can you add functionality to have profiles?


----------



## Slaughtahouse

gaojibao said:


> Yes. I even ran out of thermal paste from constantly swapping the CPUs back and forth. I also tried downgrading to the AGESA 1.2.0.6c BIOS and the results were the same.


OK so may I ask what is the objective or discussion point here? Or you just letting everyone know you're peacing out


----------



## Globespy

tabascosauz said:


> Are you sure you don't see anything above 4450 in CPU-Z ST or R23 ST? Not even in safemode?
> 
> Outside of benchmarks and stress testing, it's rare to see 4550 in real world usage, especially on Win11 where game clocks are just generally lower.


Hey there @tabascosauz - thanks for your reply!
What do you mean by 'CPU-Z ST' or 'R23 ST'? The ST part of course is what I'm asking about. Does it simply mean Static, like just sitting with the destop doing nothing?
If so, surprised HWiNFO64 would not do the same?
I will grab a portable version of CPU-Z and check it out, but with @Slaughtahouse pointing out that the differences being 2% or less, it's probably not something I am gonna spend too much time on since I prefer playing games/work over benchmarks.

I'm running Win 11, didn't know about slower gaming performance, if there is it's likely very small and not something that I've ever noticed.
I enjoy using Win 11 much more than Win 10, especially with Windowed (borderless) Fullscreen optimizations for DX11 games that run just as well (in some games slightly better) than exclusive fullscreen mode, of course all DX12 games run windowed fullscreen. Plus the DirectStorage features coming will have additional optimizations for Win 11, that will be less feature rich in Win 10. And Android apps in Win 11 are something I use regularly. No going back for me - and I've been using Windows since 3.11 for WorkGroups, so I've seen them all!
Each to their own on their OS choice, just my personal preference especially when Win 10's days are numbered for consumer-level users, with inevitable reduction of new features as we approach EOL in just over 2 years.


----------



## tabascosauz

Globespy said:


> Hey there @tabascosauz - thanks for your reply!
> What do you mean by 'CPU-Z ST' or 'R23 ST'? The ST part of course is what I'm asking about. Does it simply mean Static, like just sitting with the destop doing nothing?
> If so, surprised HWiNFO64 would not do the same?
> I will grab a portable version of CPU-Z and check it out, but with @Slaughtahouse pointing out that the differences being 2% or less, it's probably not something I am gonna spend too much time on since I prefer playing games/work over benchmarks.
> 
> I'm running Win 11, didn't know about slower gaming performance, if there is it's likely very small and not something that I've ever noticed.
> I enjoy using Win 11 much more than Win 10, especially with Windowed (borderless) Fullscreen optimizations for DX11 games that run just as well (in some games slightly better) than exclusive fullscreen mode, of course all DX12 games run windowed fullscreen. Plus the DirectStorage features coming will have additional optimizations for Win 11, that will be less feature rich in Win 10. And Android apps in Win 11 are something I use regularly. No going back for me - and I've been using Windows since 3.11 for WorkGroups, so I've seen them all!
> Each to their own on their OS choice, just my personal preference especially when Win 10's days are numbered for consumer-level users, with inevitable reduction of new features as we approach EOL in just over 2 years.


Are you getting 4450-4550 clocks during the single thread part of the CPU-Z bench, or during Cinebench R23 single core? If so, then everything is normal.

Outside of benchmarks and ST tests, you just aren't very likely to see >4450 ever on Windows 11. 5800X3D behaves a little differently from other Zen 3 in that it doesn't necessarily always hit its highest Fmax/Global limit during idle.

I didn't say Win 11 has lower gaming performance or that you should stop using it. I just said it generally clocks lower in games. It's a good demonstration that higher CPU clocks =! better. Besides, even on Windows 10, you still wouldn't use a game to test highest possible ST clocks.


----------



## Globespy

tabascosauz said:


> Are you getting 4450-4550 clocks during the single thread part of the CPU-Z bench, or during Cinebench R23 single core? If so, then everything is normal.
> 
> Outside of benchmarks and ST tests, you just aren't very likely to see >4450 ever on Windows 11. 5800X3D behaves a little differently from other Zen 3 in that it doesn't necessarily always hit its highest Fmax/Global limit during idle.
> 
> I didn't say Win 11 has lower gaming performance or that you should stop using it. I just said it generally clocks lower in games. It's a good demonstration that higher CPU clocks =! better. Besides, even on Windows 10, you still wouldn't use a game to test highest possible ST clocks.


Thanks again for the reply.
No, not ever above 4.45Ghz.
I am using BIOS version F36f on my board which is the latest 1.2.0.7 BIOS from Gigabyte for this MB

Any chance that having CPPC on 'Auto' and CPPC Preferred Cores set to 'disabled' may have anything to do with this? I was following the OP's recommendations, but have since read that some think CPPC Preferred cores should be left on 'Auto/Enabled' for the 5800X3D?


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Globespy said:


> Thanks again for the reply.
> No, not ever above 4.45Ghz.
> I am using BIOS version F36f on my board which is the latest 1.2.0.7 BIOS from Gigabyte for this MB


And the behaviour happens on stock too (without reduced limits)? Again - don't be too concerned. Just curious.

Clock speed increase is not proportional to performance increase. I've had instances where a 10% clock speed on the CPU yields 2-3% real world difference. Basically negligible. Just to put that 2% clock speed difference on just a couple cores into perspective. It's just a visual thing. 4.5 > 4.4.


----------



## tabascosauz

Globespy said:


> Thanks again for the reply.
> No, not ever above 4.45Ghz.
> I am using BIOS version F36f on my board which is the latest 1.2.0.7 BIOS from Gigabyte for this MB


How's your scores for ST in CPU-Z and R23?

1206 generally performs better than 1207.


----------



## BJT1000

robocookie said:


> Since the author of pbo2 doesn't wanna provide a source code, i'm on my way making my own that will replace all the guides and this tool whatsoever. Here is a sample so far. I will keep you guys updated with changes.


Nice, any way you can make it so that it doesn't drop the settings when it goes to sleep?


----------



## Globespy

tabascosauz said:


> How's your scores for ST in CPU-Z and R23?
> 
> 1206 generally performs better than 1207.


R23 is 1465 ST, but that's with all my usual programs running and I know a lot of people run bare-bones setups to get higher synthetic scores.

PS - I updated to 1.2.0.7 to resolve fTPM 'stutters' that were plaguing gaming on prior BIOS versions even with the latest AMD Chipset software.
I'm also using the latest official AMD Chipset Software (4.09.23.507) as opposed to the now very old version (4.04.11.742 ) that seems like it will be the last we get from Gigabyte on X570 Aorus Master boards as they work on latest boards and basically drop X570 like old trash.
If there's evidence that the old chipset works better than the latest from AMD, would love to see links


----------



## tabascosauz

Globespy said:


> R23 is 1465 ST, but that's with all my usual programs running and I know a lot of people run bare-bones setups to get higher synthetic scores.
> 
> PS - I updated to 1.2.0.7 to resolve fTPM 'stutters' that were plaguing gaming on prior BIOS versions even with the latest AMD Chipset software.
> I'm also using the latest official AMD Chipset Software (4.09.23.507) as opposed to the now very old version (4.04.11.742 ) that seems like it will be the last we get from Gigabyte on X570 Aorus Master boards as they work on latest boards and basically drop X570 like old trash.
> If there's evidence that the old chipset works better than the latest from AMD, would love to see links


Chipset driver usually doesn't change performance save for the first few weeks/months of new product release. If your Windows is dirty, you can just bench in safemode to figure out your real scores.

Do you need fTPM for specific security functions (Bitlocker)? If you don't, you can also just disable fTPM and only reenable when a major Win 11 update is released, just to download the update, then disable it after. What I've been doing ever since they pinpointed fTPM as the cause of the stuttering. Small price to pay to stay away from the garbage fire that is AGESA 1207.

Also, chipset driver updates continue as AM5 doesn't split off its own version, so I don't think they'll "drop like old trash". Current drivers include support for Rembrandt (6000 mobile) and Raphael (7000). But it doesn't mean AM4 performance will change at all.


----------



## Fab7

robocookie said:


> Since the author of pbo2 doesn't wanna provide a source code, i'm on my way making my own that will replace all the guides and this tool whatsoever. Here is a sample so far. I will keep you guys updated with changes.
> 
> View attachment 2583554


Awesome , can't wait ! 
Any date ?


----------



## Blameless

Imprezzion said:


> At least now I know not to lap mine to bare copper.


Lapping mine improved temps noticeably (3-4C) on both of my samples.



Slaughtahouse said:


> If its in game, a game won't trigger the CPU to run a 4.45GHz on all cores.


If there are enough loaded threads it will.



Burnxr said:


> I stumbled upon this in event viewer which I'm guessing to be the problem
> 
> View attachment 2583433


That is entirely normal.


----------



## zixsie

tabascosauz said:


> Chipset driver usually doesn't change performance save for the first few weeks/months of new product release. If your Windows is dirty, you can just bench in safemode to figure out your real scores.
> 
> Do you need fTPM for specific security functions (Bitlocker)? If you don't, you can also just disable fTPM and only reenable when a major Win 11 update is released, just to download the update, then disable it after. What I've been doing ever since they pinpointed fTPM as the cause of the stuttering. Small price to pay to stay away from the garbage fire that is AGESA 1207.
> 
> Also, chipset driver updates continue as AM5 doesn't split off its own version, so I don't think they'll "drop like old trash". Current drivers include support for Rembrandt (6000 mobile) and Raphael (7000). But it doesn't mean AM4 performance will change at all.


Can you be more specific about the issues with AGESA 1207 ? Some users state that it decreases performance a little while also decrease temps, others state that it behaves the same way as 1206b in terms of performance + the fix for ftpm stutters?


----------



## tabascosauz

zixsie said:


> Can you be more specific about the issues with AGESA 1207 ? Some users state that it decreases performance a little while also decrease temps, others state that it behaves the same way as 1206b in terms of performance + the fix for ftpm stutters?


1207 penalizes all-core Cinebench clocks. 200-250MHz for me on two different boards. It doesn't pull any less watts or run any cooler, just runs crappier. R23 =! real usage, but it's useful for curve optimizer (ie. -30 runs stable but inconsistent and worse than -25 for me). I still have other tests to run, but I'm not wasting my time with 1207.

Otherwise, lots of stories on non-X3D CPUs that 1207 also reduces performance but to a lesser extent. On my 5900X it was mostly okay for Win 11, but then again, if 1203 is basically _the_ choice for benching non-X3D, why even bother with 1207 if fTPM is not a must?

Did 1206 have the fTPM fix? Also been hearing that there's a boost/EDC bug on post-1203 BIOSes that might be relevant for OCing 142W CPUs. Not too sure about that one, I was able to get some 200-230W scores on 5900X on 1206 just fine.


----------



## Frikencio

I suppose you are all using Windows 11 with Virtualization disabled for Maximum performance... Right?


----------



## zixsie

Frikencio said:


> I suppose you are all using Windows 11 with Virtualization disabled for Maximum performance... Right?


Enabled virtualization does not have a negative performance impact unless you use it.


----------



## Frikencio

Oh that IS so wrong.

(Windows 11 not only uses Virtualization for VBS and HVCIl..)


----------



## zixsie

Frikencio said:


> Oh that IS so wrong.
> 
> (Windows 11 not only uses Virtualization for VBS and HVCIl..)


What about Windows 10, is it the same? First time i read Virtualization does impact performance.


----------



## icehotshot

Anyone else getting better boost clocks with AGESA V2 1.2.0.6 B over 1.2.0.7? Cause I am getting the same or better boost clocks with 1.2.0.6 B fully stock than I am with 1.2.0.7 using PBO2 tool.

I think I'm definitely sticking with 1.2.0.6 B on my X570 aorus pro wifi. Honestly I just wish Gigabyte would make an updated bios for their x570 lineup, there hasn't been one in like 4 months.

Plus I run into memory issues with 1.2.0.7 as well on my board, can't even get my 3200cl14 stable at the rated speeds without WHEA errors even with crazy voltages. 1.2.0.6 B is stabled at the rated speeds with a little voltage tweak. Definitely way worse than my 5800x non 3d, but at least I can run the rated speeds and timings now....


----------



## AXi0M

icehotshot said:


> Anyone else getting better boost clocks with AGESA V2 1.2.0.6 B over 1.2.0.7? Cause I am getting the same or better boost clocks with 1.2.0.6 B fully stock than I am with 1.2.0.7 using PBO2 tool.
> 
> I think I'm definitely sticking with 1.2.0.6 B on my X570 aorus pro wifi. Honestly I just wish Gigabyte would make an updated bios for their x570 lineup, there hasn't been one in like 4 months.
> 
> Plus I run into memory issues with 1.2.0.7 as well on my board, can't even get my 3200cl14 stable at the rated speeds without WHEA errors even with crazy voltages. 1.2.0.6 B is stabled at the rated speeds with a little voltage tweak. Definitely way worse than my 5800x non 3d, but at least I can run the rated speeds and timings now....


I stopped using 1.2.0.7 a while ago because with PBO Tuner and a -30 all core curve gave me 120w and 1.22v under load while 1.2.0.6b is 105w and 1.15v under load.

Even on windows 11 i don't think i need the fTPM fix for stuttering because i've not experienced any. unless flashing 1.2.0.7 changes something on the cpu itself and carries over to a reflash of 1.2.0.6b? all i know is no fTPM stutters with 1.2.0.6b so i'll keep it.


----------



## mikalcarbine

I've had my X3D for a few weeks now and I've been dialing it in. I can't for the life of me get 1900 FCLK stable. I backed down to 1867 and dialed in my voltages and ended up with this










I'm pretty happy with it especially because I could get the voltages pretty low, SOC and VDDG IOD seem to be my bottlenecks. I still need to run some comparison benchmarks to make sure I'm not losing any performance by running this low but it is stable. 

At 1900 I've gone through dozens of voltage combinations and ranges for each voltage, testing methodically as I go. The best I can get to is a random WHEA or two every hour or so while running y-cruncher HNT and Heaven benchmark together. I've been playing with ProcODT a bit and lowering it did seem to help a bit. Memory is Micron Rev E which ran 100% stable at these timings and frequencies on my 5600x on the same motherboard. 










Any suggestions?


----------



## icehotshot

AXi0M said:


> I stopped using 1.2.0.7 a while ago because with PBO Tuner and a -30 all core curve gave me 120w and 1.22v under load while 1.2.0.6b is 105w and 1.15v under load.
> 
> Even on windows 11 i don't think i need the fTPM fix for stuttering because i've not experienced any. unless flashing 1.2.0.7 changes something on the cpu itself and carries over to a reflash of 1.2.0.6b? all i know is no fTPM stutters with 1.2.0.6b so i'll keep it.


It appears I'm getting something simlar to the fTPM stutters in PUBG with either agesa and ftpm disabled. Plus I can't even put my memory to the rated 3200/fclk 1600 without WHEA (cpu bus interconnect) errors.

I think I literally have the worst 5800x3d in existance. I have to run 3000mhz/1500 fclk to have zero whea errors and I still get stutters like the fTPM stutters in PUBG....might need to rma me thinks.


----------



## AXi0M

mikalcarbine said:


> I've had my X3D for a few weeks now and I've been dialing it in. I can't for the life of me get 1900 FCLK stable. I backed down to 1867 and dialed in my voltages and ended up with this
> 
> View attachment 2583817
> 
> 
> I'm pretty happy with it especially because I could get the voltages pretty low, SOC and VDDG IOD seem to be my bottlenecks. I still need to run some comparison benchmarks to make sure I'm not losing any performance by running this low but it is stable.
> 
> At 1900 I've gone through dozens of voltage combinations and ranges for each voltage, testing methodically as I go. The best I can get to is a random WHEA or two every hour or so while running y-cruncher HNT and Heaven benchmark together. I've been playing with ProcODT a bit and lowering it did seem to help a bit. Memory is Micron Rev E which ran 100% stable at these timings and frequencies on my 5600x on the same motherboard.
> 
> View attachment 2583818
> 
> 
> Any suggestions?


you probably need more VGGD IOD for 1900mhz try 1.05v IOD


----------



## mikalcarbine

AXi0M said:


> you probably need more VGGD IOD for 1900mhz try 1.05v IOD


I've tried SOC from 1 to 1.2, VDDG IOD from 0.8 to 1.1 and VDDG CCD from 0.8 to 1.05 with many combinations in between without any luck. Could any memory settings cause WHEA errors?

My 5600x used to run 1900 stable on this board so I don't see why I'd need PLL higher than 1.8V but I've tried 1.7 to 1.9V for CPU PLL as well. I can boot past 2000 FCLK but can't seem to get rid of the occasional error. I'm thinking I'm just stuck at 1867 with this chip.


----------



## Fight Game

I was able to do 1933/3866 fully stable with my 3600x and 5600x but not this 5800x3d. Stuck at 1800/3600 with the same timings. I've tried loser timings and 2t and gear down mode, just refuses to even boot and need to do a bios reset with the jumper. A tiny bit bothersome, knowing these 4 sticks were able to do it before but not now. But comfort in knowing it doesn't make a damn bit of difference irl


----------



## tabascosauz

Fight Game said:


> I was able to do 1933/3866 fully stable with my 3600x and 5600x but not this 5800x3d. Stuck at 1800/3600 with the same timings. I've tried loser timings and 2t and gear down mode, just refuses to even boot and need to do a bios reset with the jumper. A tiny bit bothersome, knowing these 4 sticks were able to do it before but not now. But comfort in knowing it doesn't make a damn bit of difference irl


Basically my experience with 3733. Of course like any other Zen 3 there are tricks to try (PLL, VSOC, VDDG_IOD) but mine without fail locks up at 1900 FCLK with an 07 code on multiple boards. No way around it. To be 100% sure it's Fabric after trying all that, you can try desync (ie. 1800FCLK with 1833MCLK), if it runs fine then there's not much you can do.

You are right of course, it really doesn't matter for performance.


----------



## Farih

Dont know why everyone says 1207 is so bad.
My boost clocks are great with 1207 tbh.










lol?


----------



## tabascosauz

Farih said:


> Dont know why everyone says 1207 is so bad.
> My boost clocks are great with 1207 tbh.
> 
> lol?


Good for you.........?

4723, 5481 and 5074MHz lmao


----------



## Imprezzion

I run 1.2.0.7 and clocks at -30 are perfect. Just locks at 4450 in R23 for example. Snapshot and effective enabled. 

We'll see next week how the NZXT N7 B550 does once it shows up but on my ASUS B550-A it behaves perfectly fine.


----------



## Fab7

mikalcarbine said:


> I've had my X3D for a few weeks now and I've been dialing it in. I can't for the life of me get 1900 FCLK stable. I backed down to 1867 and dialed in my voltages and ended up with this
> Any suggestions?


Try a higher VDDP


----------



## thesebastian

robocookie said:


> Since the author of pbo2 doesn't wanna provide a source code, i'm on my way making my own that will replace all the guides and this tool whatsoever. Here is a sample so far. I will keep you guys updated with changes.


Thank you for your service. Will this new app be fully open source or will still need the existing "PBO2 Tuner.exe" underneath? ( I don't know if the code to enable CO is "secret" or "public"). 


Regarding "task scheduler" with "PBO2 Tuner.exe". On very rare cases (couldn't identify when) I was finding my PC with CO disabled. So after testing different triggers, I ended up adding "On workstation unlock". And I haven't seen the CPU with CO disabled since I added this. I also delay task for 30 sec just in case.


----------



## gupsterg

Can I join in?






Still going


http://imgur.com/fBWP8pL


Album of this rig


http://imgur.com/a/gzyipa7


----------



## AXi0M

gupsterg said:


> Can I join in?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still going
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/fBWP8pL
> 
> 
> Album of this rig
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/gzyipa7


Very nice! have your tried higher than 1900mhz FCLK? you have plenty of SOC/VDDG headroom for higher, as long as the CPU agrees lol


----------



## gupsterg

Cheers 

I've had very reasonable stability at 3933/1966 few days earlier, but was getting occasional low count WHEA, 1 to 50 dependeing on test and length of testing. But at the time tRDRDSCL/tWRWRSCL was 4/4 and tRFC set to target 280ns, as that is what this RAM kit with other Ryzen has done at 3800/3933. I will soon be revisiting higher DDR/FCLK  .

I've updated imgur album with [email protected] with Kahru RAM Test to 5K% plus 3x AIDA64, 3x CB23/20/15, Blender Benchmark, 3DM FS, 3DM TS. Doesn't seem as if slightly loosened tRFC/tRDRDSCL/tWRWRSCL is losing be anything.

My 1st 5800X3D (BR 2229 PGS) was pants for IMC, but had great core organisation for CPPC and somewhat benched about 1-2% better in CPU tests. These results were not run to run swing, effective clocks in Kahru RAM Test/RealBench/[email protected] were higher also than this one (my 2nd 5800X3D).

The 3D cache is cool on tech POV, but makes the 5800X3D so hot in certain tests. Same cooling setup has been used with Threadripper 1000 & 2000 series/R7 2700X/R5 3600/ R7 3700X/3x R9 3900X/ R9 5900X.

** edit **


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Upgraded from 3600 to 5800X3D, does 1900 MHz FCLK no problem with tight timings. A huge upgrade in games when CPU limited. Up to 100%. But runs very hot on a 280 mm AIO


----------



## Imprezzion

Ha-Nocri said:


> Upgraded from 3600 to 5800X3D, does 1900 MHz FCLK no problem with tight timings. A huge upgrade in games when CPU limited. Up to 100%. But runs very hot on a 280 mm AIO
> 
> View attachment 2584043


Looks sweet! One little thing, your tRTP is off. With tWR 12 it should be 6 optimally. Btw do you really need that much CLDO VDDP? I would start at like 0.900-0.950. This is quite high.

Temps.. yeah even on my custom loop it hits 71-72c in some games at -30 CO and up to 79-81c in benchmarks / stress tests. Never any higher tho.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Imprezzion said:


> Looks sweet! One little thing, your tRTP is off. With tWR 12 it should be 6 optimally. Btw do you really need that much CLDO VDDP? I would start at like 0.900-0.950. This is quite high.
> 
> Temps.. yeah even on my custom loop it hits 71-72c in some games at -30 CO and up to 79-81c in benchmarks / stress tests. Never any higher tho.


I used DRAM Calculator for Ryzen by 1usmus, it shows tWR 12 and tRTP 8. I have no idea what those are, so why should it be 6?

And indeed the cLDO VDDP Voltage is too high, I left it on auto, should fix it. Thanks


----------



## F0xpant5

Hey all, new to these forums, a mod from Techpowerup! where I've been for years suggested posting here with my humble request.

I have a Gigabyte X570 I Aorus Pro WiFi, and I'd love to source or request a bios be modded to allow PBO2 undervolting directly in bios for my 5800X3D. I've had fantastic results using the windows based approach, but naturally would prefer a BIOS level addition of those settings to be OS agnostic.

Mod name dropped @Reous as someone very helpful.

Any help appreciated


----------



## Taraquin

mikalcarbine said:


> I've had my X3D for a few weeks now and I've been dialing it in. I can't for the life of me get 1900 FCLK stable. I backed down to 1867 and dialed in my voltages and ended up with this
> 
> View attachment 2583817
> 
> 
> I'm pretty happy with it especially because I could get the voltages pretty low, SOC and VDDG IOD seem to be my bottlenecks. I still need to run some comparison benchmarks to make sure I'm not losing any performance by running this low but it is stable.
> 
> At 1900 I've gone through dozens of voltage combinations and ranges for each voltage, testing methodically as I go. The best I can get to is a random WHEA or two every hour or so while running y-cruncher HNT and Heaven benchmark together. I've been playing with ProcODT a bit and lowering it did seem to help a bit. Memory is Micron Rev E which ran 100% stable at these timings and frequencies on my 5600x on the same motherboard.
> 
> View attachment 2583818
> 
> 
> Any suggestions?


Does it matter if you get rare WHEA19? Unless they hurt performance or stability I would say keep 1900fclk and find lowest voltages needed to avoid WHEA18 feast


----------



## Tangenius

robocookie said:


> Since the author of pbo2 doesn't wanna provide a source code, i'm on my way making my own that will replace all the guides and this tool whatsoever. Here is a sample so far. I will keep you guys updated with changes.
> 
> View attachment 2583554


This is really cool, thank you very much! Did you consider supporting Linux? I really want that to happen. Also where can I find your repository, because I'm very interested in the code.


----------



## gupsterg

Updated imgur album with some PBO OC tuning, link.

Stability testing continuing on PBO CO tune profile v1.2.


----------



## Blameless

Had to give my newest 5800X3D sample a slight VDDG bump.

Passed my usual suite of tests without issue, but I started noticing intermittent crashes while playing some older isometric cRPGs (DX9 and 11 stuff that gets several hundred fps, as I don't cap anything). I thought it was my GPU OC at first, but no, it turned out it was VDDG. +10mV here, back to the 910/960 CCD/IOD I was using on my original sample, seem to have addressed everything.

I'll have to work more PCI-E sensitive loads into my normal testing.

_Edit:_ Turns out it was primarily the GPU after all (specifically, the GPU's SoC voltage). I'm back at 900/950 vDDG.


----------



## Dolenc

Hi all

Got my x3d about a week ago, upgrade from ryzen 3600. Used the same settings as I had before, gigabyte b550i mb and crucial 3000cl15 e-die memory running at 3600cl16, had this setup for a good year, all was running well. Its a small itx build, so I set the x3d to -30 and 65w power profile limits with pbo tuner.

After a few days, started getting some random crashes and with some more exploring, it seems as the memory controller just isnt as good as before, or my settings just dont work well with the current cpu. Putting the memory down to 3200mhz clears all the errors, and on 3400 it still gets the occasional whea err reported, no crashing but bound to happen...

So I wanna explore where the problem might be.

First I wanted to check the infinity fabric. I set it off-sync and put the memory on 1600/3200 and IF first on 1800mhz with vsoc at 1V and later 1900mhz, with vsoc 1.075V. No whea errors in sight, doing random stuff and stress testing.

Is this a valid way to test IF? Or does it have to be in-sync to really stress it?


----------



## Najenda

i bought but it didnt come yet, is 3200mhz cl14 enough for 5800x3d ? or if i should overclock my ram ?
my rig is currently:
gigabyte g5 x370
ryzen 1700
gtx 970 strix ( searching for second hand deals to get 6900xt)
corsair rmx750
Crucial Ballistix 8x2 16 gb

i guess i didnt even turn on xmp lol


----------



## Fight Game

its fine. most of us here like to tweek things as high as they can go, but ymmv on whether or not it actually helps anything but a benchmark. There's been a few comparisons that show how little memory makes a difference for this cpu, assuming 3200+, specifically for gaming.


----------



## icehotshot

Dolenc said:


> Hi all
> 
> Got my x3d about a week ago, upgrade from ryzen 3600. Used the same settings as I had before, gigabyte b550i mb and crucial 3000cl15 e-die memory running at 3600cl16, had this setup for a good year, all was running well. Its a small itx build, so I set the x3d to -30 and 65w power profile limits with pbo tuner.
> 
> After a few days, started getting some random crashes and with some more exploring, it seems as the memory controller just isnt as good as before, or my settings just dont work well with the current cpu. Putting the memory down to 3200mhz clears all the errors, and on 3400 it still gets the occasional whea err reported, no crashing but bound to happen...
> 
> So I wanna explore where the problem might be.
> 
> First I wanted to check the infinity fabric. I set it off-sync and put the memory on 1600/3200 and IF first on 1800mhz with vsoc at 1V and later 1900mhz, with vsoc 1.075V. No whea errors in sight, doing random stuff and stress testing.
> 
> Is this a valid way to test IF? Or does it have to be in-sync to really stress it?


In my experience with non 3d chips, if the IF worked out of sync, it worked for me in sync no problems.

My 5800x3d is even worse than yours though lol, I can't even do 1600 fclk without whea errors. I've maxed out SOC voltage/chipset voltage/vddg/vddp/enabled ln2 mode and messed with the 1.8v. But I had the same experience as you with the whea errors showing up but never a single crash....I just don't like running knowing the machine is throwing errors. I'm stuck at 3000 mem/1500 fclk for now.

I almost have a feeling that many of these issues with the low fclk are bios related. I remember when I first got my Gigabyte X570 Aorus Pro wifi and 3900x. It could barely do 1600 fclk without a ton of voltage tweaks and after like 4 new bioses it could run 1900 fclk on auto voltages that seemed pretty low. I just wish gigabyte would provide a newer bios, the last one they released for my board is 4+ months old.


----------



## jonnyzeraa

Hello guys, im a beginner of this " overclock / optimization world or w/e everyone call " recently i've buyed a 5800X3D + B550M TUF PLUS + 16x2 3600CL 14-15-15-28 b-die ram memory, u guys can send me if possible any guides to how overclock ram memorys and how improve the 5800x3d performance in gaming ( i see some people talking about use PBO2 Tuner for get better temps for this one since 5800x3d is super hot ) tbh i just want extract the maximum i can from this two components ( for get better performance in games ), if someone can show me the way to follow for get this, ill be really appreciated. Good night from Brazil, thanks!!


----------



## Globespy

I tried out various settings with the PBO2 Tuner, all using the same BIOS set PPT 124/TDC 82/EDC 124 limits.
R23 multi-core sits at 4,450Mhz rock solid throughout entire test, temps never exceed 65-67C during the run.
Been using every day for months across many different games/windows programs without a single issue.
Ran CoreCycler (absolute profile) for 24 hours without issue
Ran TM5 with confidence over 10K (ran for about 10 hours from memory)

PBO2 Tuner - All core -30
VDDG CCD -0.95
VDDG IOD - 0.90
SoC (SVI2 TFN) -1018mV

CPPC - Enabled
CPPC Pref - Disabled

Board is Aorus X570 Master running Agesa 1.2.0.7 BIOS version F36f
G.Skill 2x 16GB DDR4 @ 3600Mhz
Win 11 22H2 - Latest Build

Seems like an 'ok' score for being cooled with EKWB Elite 360mm AIO inside LianLi PC-011D case.
Probably just gonna leave it this way for the rest of it's life (at least with me), even though I still don't see those single core boosts near 5Ghz that some seem to get, but that's likely not doing any workloads of much substance - not missing much in everyday use I doubt anyway, and this thing runs nice and cool, which means quiet. Surprisingly so, when I have an RTX 4090 in there, which is it's own little oven!!


----------



## F0xpant5

F0xpant5 said:


> Hey all, new to these forums, a mod from Techpowerup! where I've been for years suggested posting here with my humble request.
> 
> I have a Gigabyte X570 I Aorus Pro WiFi, and I'd love to source or request a bios be modded to allow PBO2 undervolting directly in bios for my 5800X3D. I've had fantastic results using the windows based approach, but naturally would prefer a BIOS level addition of those settings to be OS agnostic.
> 
> Mod name dropped @Reous as someone very helpful.
> 
> Any help appreciated


Would anyone be able to assist with this? I believe that @Verangry was also namedropped as someone who's made some custom BIOS's before, cheers for your consideration.


----------



## Dolenc

icehotshot said:


> In my experience with non 3d chips, if the IF worked out of sync, it worked for me in sync no problems.


Thanks. Yea I also feel its mature bios related, yesterday had all day at 1900 if, worked with no errors, them moved to 1700 on both memory and if and there we go again . Will play around some more, but probably just keep it at 3200 for now and let things mature, if they ever will, not sure how much will amd and mb makers invest in x3d going forward.


----------



## BNSoul

Anyone tried the new chipset drivers AMD just released? I can't find a detailed changelog, just "bug fixes".


----------



## Taraquin

Dolenc said:


> Hi all
> 
> Got my x3d about a week ago, upgrade from ryzen 3600. Used the same settings as I had before, gigabyte b550i mb and crucial 3000cl15 e-die memory running at 3600cl16, had this setup for a good year, all was running well. Its a small itx build, so I set the x3d to -30 and 65w power profile limits with pbo tuner.
> 
> After a few days, started getting some random crashes and with some more exploring, it seems as the memory controller just isnt as good as before, or my settings just dont work well with the current cpu. Putting the memory down to 3200mhz clears all the errors, and on 3400 it still gets the occasional whea err reported, no crashing but bound to happen...
> 
> So I wanna explore where the problem might be.
> 
> First I wanted to check the infinity fabric. I set it off-sync and put the memory on 1600/3200 and IF first on 1800mhz with vsoc at 1V and later 1900mhz, with vsoc 1.075V. No whea errors in sight, doing random stuff and stress testing.
> 
> Is this a valid way to test IF? Or does it have to be in-sync to really stress it?


What error code in event viewer when crash occured? What timings did you use? I have that kit and if tuned I must raise RCDRD, RC and RFC in certain steps. 

For 3100 I can run RCDRD 16, but I must raise it by 1 at 3200, 3400 etc. 

Currently running
3700 15 19 19 34 on my i5 12400F 1.44v
RFC 544
Rest supertight.å


----------



## Dolenc

Found an old picture, with ryzen 3600 so 16 16/19 16 36 at 1.4v, thats how I had it for 2y. Err is that standard "cpu bus interconnect smthing"


----------



## marceloavf

BNSoul said:


> Anyone tried the new chipset drivers AMD just released? I can't find a detailed changelog, just "bug fixes".


If you scroll down in the notes you can see what's fixed, for example:]

- PSP Driver:
Fixed BSOD 7E while installing the PSP driver
New program support added

- SFH Driver:
Added support for custom ACS sensor
Report invalid data when sensor is blocked

- S0i3 Filter Driver:
Fix for BSOD during S4 when AMD USB4 CM is involved

- MicroPEP Driver:
Updated .inf file to remove redundant information
Fixed BSOD 0x1CA and 0xA0 seen on Windows® 11 22H2

So yes, it worth to update


----------



## icehotshot

Dolenc said:


> Found an old picture, with ryzen 3600 so 16 16/19 16 36 at 1.4v, thats how I had it for 2y. Err is that standard "cpu bus interconnect smthing"
> 
> View attachment 2584310


Event ID 19 for your bus/interconnect error, right? You can check in the windows Event Viewer.

It's quite unfortunate these 3d chips seem a bit touchy/underperforming when it comes to the infinity fabric clocks. You would think they would have better IF clocks since they should be using a very mature SOC chip....my 3900x could do 1900 IF no problem as could my 5800x non 3d.


----------



## Dolenc

Yea think its that id19, not close to the pc at the moment to check.
Was a bit surprised, tbh I expected I would be stepping up to 3800mhz. And desynced IF works just fine at 1900mhz, but when synced with memory 1700mhz already unstable. Think I will just give it time, if they fix something with new bios revisions and just run it at 3200 for now, my tinkering itch can wait a little.


----------



## AXi0M

icehotshot said:


> Event ID 19 for your bus/interconnect error, right? You can check in the windows Event Viewer.
> 
> It's quite unfortunate these 3d chips seem a bit touchy/underperforming when it comes to the infinity fabric clocks. You would think they would have better IF clocks since they should be using a very mature SOC chip....my 3900x could do 1900 IF no problem as could my 5800x non 3d.


Its all down to the lottery as with anything else. Mine does 1933mhz at only 1.1v SOC but 1966 wont work even at 1.2v


----------



## Sildur

My 5800X3D is on the way, got it for 350 bucks. Could anyone give me a quick breakdown and maybe link the tools I'll need to tweak this thing? Undervolting seems to be the way to go with it yeah?
Mainboard is the MSI Gaming Pro Carbon Wifi x570
Ram is G.Skill TridentZ Neo Series 4x8GB, 3800MHz CL 14(F4-3800C14Q-32GTZN)


----------



## StevieRay2

Anyone playing MWII/Warzone 2? what did you all set your RendererWorkerCount:
At?


----------



## tabascosauz

StevieRay2 said:


> Anyone playing MWII/Warzone 2? what did you all set your RendererWorkerCount:
> At?


Default is 7 for me. I see no point changing it as different values doesn't fix the periodic micro-stutter. Every other game including MW19 runs just fine, so I stopped trying to fix it. Some on Reddit were suspecting anticheat shenanigans or bad servers (servers are run by a hamster, haven't been able to run custom games for the past few days, about 50% of the time it errors out with Error 292 or 11642).


----------



## tabascosauz

Sildur said:


> My 5800X3D is on the way, got it for 350 bucks. Could anyone give me a quick breakdown and maybe link the tools I'll need to tweak this thing? Undervolting seems to be the way to go with it yeah?
> Mainboard is the MSI Gaming Pro Carbon Wifi x570
> Ram is G.Skill TridentZ Neo Series 4x8GB, 3800MHz CL 14(F4-3800C14Q-32GTZN)


Take your pick









5800X3D Owners


This means the board is modestly under reporting CPU power consumption, which will have very similar effects to increasing power limits. Reducing power limits might allow higher or longer opportunistic boosting, depending on workload. Also, it's highly unlikely that -50 CO is actually taking...




www.overclock.net












How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner/README.md at main · PrimeO7/How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner


Get the Most out of your 5800X3D using PBO Curve Optimizer! - How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner/README.md at main · PrimeO7/How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2...




github.com


----------



## StevieRay2

tabascosauz said:


> Default is 7 for me. I see no point changing it as different values doesn't fix the periodic micro-stutter. Every other game including MW19 runs just fine, so I stopped trying to fix it. Some on Reddit were suspecting anticheat shenanigans or bad servers (servers are run by a hamster, haven't been able to run custom games for the past few days, about 50% of the time it errors out with Error 292 or 11642).


Mines default 7 too, I just wanted to see if I can get more fps out of changing it but for me seems 6-7-8 all give me the same fps, 4-5 gave me weird stutters like the game was desync unless it was just the match at the time


----------



## Fight Game

F0xpant5 said:


> Would anyone be able to assist with this? I believe that @Verangry was also namedropped as someone who's made some custom BIOS's before, cheers for your consideration.


 If we're going to ask for modded bioses, we should be asking for the +200mhz option or other things, as well.


----------



## ttnuagmada

So, mine died! like completely dead. I come home from work, notice PC is off, try to turn it back on, but it only gets power for like a fraction of a second. Just enough time for the fans to kinda twitch. Obviously PSU was the first thought, but i have a spare (spares) and got the same result with one of them. Tried a different power switch with the same result. So i put in the 5800X that it replaced, and it boots up fine.

First CPU I've ever had die like that.


----------



## tabascosauz

StevieRay2 said:


> Mines default 7 too, I just wanted to see if I can get more fps out of changing it but for me seems 6-7-8 all give me the same fps, 4-5 gave me weird stutters like the game was desync unless it was just the match at the time


How often/what frequency are the stutters you're getting? The ones I get are noticeable but are too short to show up as an fps dip or in latencymon. Basically the solution for me is just not to play MW2 unless right after a fresh boot lol, no stutters then

One of these days I need to remember to fire up Campaign when MP is stuttering, then we'll know for sure



Fight Game said:


> If we're going to ask for modded bioses, we should be asking for the +200mhz option or other things, as well.


Custom BIOS can unhide boost override but it can only be adjusted lower. Whatever you can't do in PBO2 tuner you can't do in BIOS either. go pester AMD to fix it in agesa


----------



## StevieRay2

tabascosauz said:


> How often/what frequency are the stutters you're getting? The ones I get are noticeable but are too short to show up as an fps dip or in latencymon. Basically the solution for me is just not to play MW2 unless right after a fresh boot lol, no stutters then
> 
> One of these days I need to remember to fire up Campaign when MP is stuttering, then we'll know for sure
> 
> 
> 
> Custom BIOS can unhide boost override but it can only be adjusted lower. Whatever you can't do in PBO2 tuner you can't do in BIOS either. go pester AMD to fix it in agesa


Not really stutters I guess more like teammates running on the spot odd desync, only noticed it when using those lower numbers. But the stutters I do get are microsecond frame drops that I can see the fps go from 190 to 140 etc


----------



## th3illusiveman

This CPU is bottlenecking me at 4k w/ all maxed out settings in Spiderman remastered and RT w/ DLSS quality with 4090.. GPU utilization drops to 70% (~190watts) and frames are in the 70s.

Weird, i thought it delivered strong performance in this game compared to other chips.


----------



## jootn2kx

th3illusiveman said:


> This CPU is bottlenecking me at 4k w/ all maxed out settings in Spiderman remastered and RT w/ DLSS quality with 4090.. GPU utilization drops to 70% (~190watts) and frames are in the 70s.
> 
> Weird, i thought it delivered strong performance in this game compared to other chips.


So is the same story for the 13900K, any cpu will bottleneck the rtx 4090 now  because it's a rediculous powerfull card. gona need to wait for next gen CPU to handle that beast. But currently the 5800X3D has the best price/performance you can get now


----------



## MrNiceGuy007

Hello guys... Please help , few days ago I bought 5800x3d with b550m auros pro p to replace my i5 11400...( Ram 3600 16 18 18 38 xmp ballisticx ).
Now I got problems with random stutters in warzone 2.0 , ( I didn't get so many stutters on my 11400)
I changer bios to 1.2.0.6b gave me 4.45 ghz
And back to 1.2.0.7 gave me 4.3ghz
Changed windows 10 to 11 stutter still there ( I'm on SSD )
Could some one help me ? Maybe I should change to msi b550m mortar ?? .
Could be my stutters because the gigabyte motherboard???
( Cyberpunk ,CSGO,shadow of tomb benchmarks doenst stutter at all )
Some example of 100% random starters I get
Genshin and warzonze

































I set fsb on 102 but it's still runs on 4.3 ghz ( msi show in game 4350
....


----------



## tabascosauz

MrNiceGuy007 said:


> Hello guys... Please help , few days ago I bought 5800x3d with b550m auros pro p to replace my i5 11400...( Ram 3600 16 18 18 38 xmp ballisticx ).
> Now I got problems with random stutters in warzone 2.0 , ( I didn't now get so many stutters on my 11400)
> I changer bios to 1.2.0.6b gave me 4.45 ghz
> And back to 1.2.0.7 gave me 4.3ghz
> Changed windows 10 to 11 stutter still there ( I'm on SSD )
> Could some one help me ? Maybe I should change to msi b550m mortar ?? .
> Could be my stutters because the gigabyte motherboard???
> Some example of 100% random starters I get
> Genshin and warzonze


Are you a new player to Genshin? PC optimization is terrible. It's been that way for 2 years. You will get sporadic stutters, that's life. On Windows 11, try enabling windowed VRR, and also experiment with the new FSR 2.0 implementation (under AA) to see if it works better for you vs SMAA or no AA.

As for MW2, so many people still experience unpredictable microstutters across the game. Pretty obvious in even Youtubers' videos that I watch. There is no consensus on what causes it, it's still early for that. Also, Warzone has been out for 7 days lol, how much testing were you able to do on that 11400? If you have MW2 the built-in benchmark should be a more consistent gauge than actual matches in Warzone (should rule out other potential culprits like server problems and (maybe) anti-cheat).

If you get consistent stutters in every game, however, best to reinstall windows if you haven't already. I had a pretty bad issue with stuttering after carrying over my 5900X install, clean install fixed things up (in everything except MW2).

If all you care about is gaming performance and troubleshooting the stuttering issue, put the X3D back to stock and stop running BCLK OC before you've figured out anything else.


----------



## Imprezzion

ttnuagmada said:


> So, mine died! like completely dead. I come home from work, notice PC is off, try to turn it back on, but it only gets power for like a fraction of a second. Just enough time for the fans to kinda twitch. Obviously PSU was the first thought, but i have a spare (spares) and got the same result with one of them. Tried a different power switch with the same result. So i put in the 5800X that it replaced, and it boots up fine.
> 
> First CPU I've ever had die like that.


Oof. Got warranty on it I hope? I mean, this doesn't surprise me honestly as I had a 5900X B1 stepping do the same. I sent it in for warranty, got a B2 5900X back within a week. It seems to be not that rare for this to happen with any 5xxx. The AMD CPU topic here had multiple users confirm that this does happen.


----------



## Nd4spdvn

ttnuagmada said:


> So, mine died! like completely dead.


Sorry for your loss. Hopefully you will get a replacement capable in reaching 2000 IF with ease (or no 1900 hole at least). Since launch there have been a few cases reported here and elsewhere, I would not generalize though that it is a common occurring thing.


----------



## sendap

got mine a couple of days ago and prepared by reading this thread. Great resource!!! Thank you all. I have stresstested this setup with y-cruncher, OCCT, AIDA, Karhu and Testmem and gaming. No crashes at all. Very nice CPU.
Powerlimits set to 122 82 124


----------



## MrNiceGuy007

Thx alot I will try to play around with vrr , 
I have stutters only in genshin and warzone 2.0 
Other games are clean. Witcher 3
Cyberpunk , shadow of tomb raider , csgo benchmark show no stutter


----------



## tabascosauz

MrNiceGuy007 said:


> Thx alot I will try to play around with vrr ,
> I have stutters only in genshin and warzone 2.0
> Other games are clean. Witcher 3
> Cyberpunk , shadow of tomb raider , csgo benchmark show no stutter


i have a CapframeX log from just walking around in Liyue and panning the map. Plenty of frametime spikes everywhere, it's normal. I'll post it tmr if I can find it

On native 60Hz monitors Genshin is generally smoother. But even with G-sync or Freesync to cope with the 60fps engine limit, things are generally choppy on higher refresh monitors.

As for MW2, you can try the usual things like changing your renderworker count, video memory scale, and disabling texture streaming. But just give it some time, idk what GPU you use but Nvidia GPUs have gotten off to a horrible start with this game, and clearly the game itself is still very buggy


----------



## Najenda

hello everyone i installed 5800x3d finally but i have a problem, i have 240mm push pull relatively (5 years) old aio (seidon 240v with 4 sp 120), it was all fine my r7 1700 was max 55c at 3.9 ghz. Now when i move mouse or open chrome this processor boosts like crazy to 4.5 ghz and all fans ramping up, for now i disabled core boost, do i need fresh windows install ? do i need curve optimizer things to slow down this guy a little bit ? and what is ideal hotspot temperature of this bad boy when under load ?


----------



## icehotshot

Najenda said:


> hello everyone i installed 5800x3d finally but i have a problem, i have 240mm push pull relatively (5 years) old aio (seidon 240v with 4 sp 120), it was all fine my r7 1700 was max 55c at 3.9 ghz. Now when i move mouse or open chrome this processor boosts like crazy to 4.5 ghz and all fans ramping up, for now i disabled core boost, do i need fresh windows install ? do i need curve optimizer things to slow down this guy a little bit ? and what is ideal hotspot temperature of this bad boy when under load ?


You probably just need to adjust your fan curve. These chips get hotter than the non 3d versions and they can spike up to 50-60C while not doing that much.

As long as it's around 80C max I would be happy. I don't think it throttles till 90C+. But yes, you can use the curve optimizer tool (PBO2 tool) in windows to set a negative curve and that will also lower temps by lowering the voltage.

From my experience with my gigabyte x570 aorus pro wifi, AGESA 1.2.0.7 runs cooler because of lower default voltages than 1.2.0.6 B. So you can also play around with different bios.


----------



## jonnyzeraa

Hey everyone, recently buyed a 5800x3d+b550m tuf plus and need the last two components for finish my pc ( psu and cpu cooler ), my question is: if i use pbo tuner 2 to my 5800x3d i really need a 360mm water cooler? or a air cooler like ak620 or assassin III ( who costs 2x less here in brazil ) can tank easily the 5800x3d? thankssss


----------



## ttnuagmada

Imprezzion said:


> Oof. Got warranty on it I hope? I mean, this doesn't surprise me honestly as I had a 5900X B1 stepping do the same. I sent it in for warranty, got a B2 5900X back within a week. It seems to be not that rare for this to happen with any 5xxx. The AMD CPU topic here had multiple users confirm that this does happen.


I've only had it a couple of weeks. hopefully still within the return window. If not I should be able to get AMD to replace it.


----------



## Najenda

icehotshot said:


> You probably just need to adjust your fan curve. These chips get hotter than the non 3d versions and they can spike up to 50-60C while not doing that much.
> 
> As long as it's around 80C max I would be happy. I don't think it throttles till 90C+. But yes, you can use the curve optimizer tool (PBO2 tool) in windows to set a negative curve and that will also lower temps by lowering the voltage.
> 
> From my experience with my gigabyte x570 aorus pro wifi, AGESA 1.2.0.7 runs cooler because of lower default voltages than 1.2.0.6 B. So you can also play around with different bios.


before it was hitting 84c and 15000 cinebench multi score , i played a bit with pbo2, i set everything -30 and max clock to 4200, now score is 14120 ish with 60-70c, its great for that performance loss


----------



## ttnuagmada

Nd4spdvn said:


> Sorry for your loss. Hopefully you will get a replacement capable in reaching 2000 IF with ease (or no 1900 hole at least). Since launch there have been a few cases reported here and elsewhere, I would not generalize though that it is a common occurring thing.


Im wondering if these things are more prone to dying due to the 3D cache or something. Would explain why you can't overclock them.


----------



## OCmember

@MrNiceGuy007 Sounds like you have jitter from an un-optimized system.


----------



## Nd4spdvn

ttnuagmada said:


> Im wondering if these things are more prone to dying due to the 3D cache or something. Would explain why you can't overclock them.


Not sure the 3D cache is a thing on this. I did see some reports of similar sudden deaths on the normal 5xxx procs. Come to think of it the voltages and most importantly the currents are not that high with these 3D chips as they've been limited by AMD on purpose. But who knows, I'm just applying some common sense here, the extra cache does play a role in worsening the heat transfer to the IHS but only AMD will know the real answer, maybe that's why they limited this 1st 3D cache version in the first place.


----------



## mikalcarbine

I'm losing my mind a bit here. A week or so ago I could hit 4.55 boost single core using BoostTester and CPUZ single core bench. I've been playing around with my BCLK at 102 and could hit max boost (4.55 multi 4.65 single) with no issues. Last night I noticed I wasn't hitting my multi boost so I started investigating. At stock BCLK and CO my R23 multi scores have always been pretty low (~14100) and my power reporting deviation is typically at 106% during all core load. When my temps are under 80C I'm only able to reach ~4.3ghz all core in R23. If I use CO -30 I can hit 4.45 multi but I still can't seem to reach 4.55 single core, sometimes I can get close to 4.5 but not over. Snapshot polling is enabled and the screenshot below was taken during an R23 run with the HWinfo history reset at the start of the run. Stock BCLK, CO, LLC and VCORE below. Is my motherboard holding back power to my CPU with my power deviation at 106%?


----------



## sendap

mikalcarbine said:


> Is my motherboard holding back power to my CPU with my power deviation at 106%?


not sure but maybe yes. I adjusted the Telemetry in my BIOS settings. HWinfo showed 105% PRD (Test and adjust under Stock conditions)


----------



## zixsie

What that PRD value should be? Mine is around 105% under CB23 all core bench with -30 all core.


----------



## sendap

it should be 100% (tested with Stock settings). In HWinfo hover over that entry with your mouse and you will get a nice explanation


----------



## Ha-Nocri

jonnyzeraa said:


> Hey everyone, recently buyed a 5800x3d+b550m tuf plus and need the last two components for finish my pc ( psu and cpu cooler ), my question is: if i use pbo tuner 2 to my 5800x3d i really need a 360mm water cooler? or a air cooler like ak620 or assassin III ( who costs 2x less here in brazil ) can tank easily the 5800x3d? thankssss


You will be fine with those air coolers, maybe 50-100 MHz less in synthetic benchmarks, but who really cares. You should definitely use PBO tuner


----------



## jonnyzeraa

Ha-Nocri said:


> You will be fine with those air coolers, maybe 50-100 MHz less in synthetic benchmarks, but who really cares. You should definitely use PBO tuner


This 50-100Mhz less in games have any diff? or lose nothing in FPS


----------



## AXi0M

I got 1T GDM off working on my system at the same settings as my 2T profile by using AddrCmdSetup 56 but not getting any better performance in benchmarks (AIDA64,Linpack,Y-Cruncher)

What exactly does changing setup timings do to performance when raising it gives stability to 1T but offers no better performance than 2T?


----------



## mikalcarbine

sendap said:


> not sure but maybe yes. I adjusted the Telemetry in my BIOS settings. HWinfo showed 105% PRD (Test and adjust under Stock conditions)
> 
> View attachment 2584633


It looks like my motherboard defaults the VDD Full Scale Current to 260A. I had to *reduce *mine to ~245-250 for my Power Reporting Deviation to show as 100%. This didn't seem to help my score at all and my clocks are the same.


----------



## Najenda

is memory speed and latency is enough to not cause any bottleneck ?
im pretty happy with it but man,fan curves so aggressive,even after pbo and few tweaks, it still sometimes ramp up


----------



## Najenda

icehotshot said:


> You probably just need to adjust your fan curve. These chips get hotter than the non 3d versions and they can spike up to 50-60C while not doing that much.
> 
> As long as it's around 80C max I would be happy. I don't think it throttles till 90C+. But yes, you can use the curve optimizer tool (PBO2 tool) in windows to set a negative curve and that will also lower temps by lowering the voltage.
> 
> From my experience with my gigabyte x570 aorus pro wifi, AGESA 1.2.0.7 runs cooler because of lower default voltages than 1.2.0.6 B. So you can also play around with different bios.


before it was hitting 84c and 15000 cinebench multi score , i played a bit with pbo2, i set everything -30 and max clock to 4200, now score is 14120 ish with 60-70c, its great for that performance loss

sadly its latest bios and adds support to 5800x3d, gigabyte g5 x370


----------



## BJT1000

Hey I see there is now a 4408 update for my X570 board but I see there is now a curve optimiser option available!


----------



## AXi0M

BJT1000 said:


> Hey I see there is now a 4408 update for my X570 board but I see there is now a curve optimiser option available?
> 
> View attachment 2584673


 which asus board?


----------



## BJT1000

AXi0M said:


> which asus board?


Its the Prime X570-P


----------



## AXi0M

BJT1000 said:


> Its the Prime X570-P


Is it working from the bios? hopefully the PRIME-PRO gets the update soon


----------



## mikalcarbine

mikalcarbine said:


> I'm losing my mind a bit here. A week or so ago I could hit 4.55 boost single core using BoostTester and CPUZ single core bench. I've been playing around with my BCLK at 102 and could hit max boost (4.55 multi 4.65 single) with no issues. Last night I noticed I wasn't hitting my multi boost so I started investigating. At stock BCLK and CO my R23 multi scores have always been pretty low (~14100) and my power reporting deviation is typically at 106% during all core load. When my temps are under 80C I'm only able to reach ~4.3ghz all core in R23. If I use CO -30 I can hit 4.45 multi but I still can't seem to reach 4.55 single core, sometimes I can get close to 4.5 but not over. Snapshot polling is enabled and the screenshot below was taken during an R23 run with the HWinfo history reset at the start of the run. Stock BCLK, CO, LLC and VCORE below. Is my motherboard holding back power to my CPU with my power deviation at 106%?
> 
> View attachment 2584625


I think I figured out what's going on. I enabled snapshot polling in HWinfo and my effective clocks are nowhere near what they are in normal polling mode. If I close out many of my background apps and increase the frequency of polling for HWinfo I can get around 4.53GHz single core with snapshot enabled and just under 4.45 in CB23 multi. I think I have a very bloated Windows install at the moment and will probably install a fresh copy this weekend. 

However when I raise my BCLK to 102 I cannot get past 4.45/4.55 with snapshot enabled. With normal polling it is showing 4.55 multi and 4.65 single core which adds up with the BCLK increase. In reality am I just clock stretching and normal polling is covering this up? I am indeed seeing higher benchmark scores at 102 BCLK so I would imagine my effective clocks have indeed improved.


----------



## BJT1000

AXi0M said:


> Is it working from the bios? hopefully the PRIME-PRO gets the update soon


Haven't had a chance to do any testing, just installed during my lunch break.. hopefully!


----------



## BJT1000

BJT1000 said:


> Haven't had a chance to do any testing, just installed during my lunch break.. hopefully!


Can confirm, it all works perfectly in Windows! Looks like PBO2 Tuner is now obsolete, at least for my board anyway! I'm super glad with this as it should resolve my issue where it would become unstable only after waking from sleep, despite working perfectly from a fresh boot. Since the settings aren't lost and reapplied after a sleep I figure it should remain stable now.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

jonnyzeraa said:


> This 50-100Mhz less in games have any diff? or lose nothing in FPS


If I had to guess you will lose zero FPS or maybe a few here and there.


----------



## zixsie

Just tried to switch back to AGESA 1206b from 1207.
1206b gives 6 degrees lower CPU temps vs 1207 during CB23 All core bench, using the same settings.
Don`t know where this difference come from.


----------



## AXi0M

zixsie said:


> Just tried to switch back to AGESA 1206b from 1207.
> 1206b gives 6 degrees lower CPU temps vs 1207 during CB23 All core bench, using the same settings.
> Don`t know where this difference come from.


Is the voltage lower? Mine is ~50mv lower on 1.2.0.6b


----------



## StevieRay2

Nice that some motherboards are getting more support for these CPUs, hope the rest get all the PBO2 unlocks too, Kombo Strike is fine but I'd rather have more control via BIOS


----------



## jonnyzeraa

Ha-Nocri said:


> If I had to guess you will lose zero FPS or maybe a few here and there.


Gotcha, thanks for the attention bro!! i watched a video from a guy who's using the same mobo as mine ( b550m tuf plus + 5800x3d ) and in bios have the option for change the VDDCR Cpu Off Set Voltage, he just changed for 0.05000. Maybe this is more pratic and simple then change each core from pbo tuner 2 app? here is the video: 




Btw, u know if have a good guide to how overclock ram memorys? just buyed a 16x2 3600CL14-15-15-28 B-Die and i want extract as much performance possible from them.


----------



## MedievalCPU

Greetings everyone!

Just a 5800X3D owner visiting to mention a couple issues with this guide : How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner/README.md at main · PrimeO7/How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner
I believe there are two - I think crucial - omissions that have been preventing many people I have interacted with these past few months at a variety of communities, from succeeding at automating PBO2 Tuner at startup;

First being that they fail at inputing the full argument when creating the task (nb: often a first time for many), because an example of the full input is not shown, only the -** values for cores CO, and so these *people do not see how to write the rest of the argument properly *(PPT TDC EDC Fmax, and in fact I dunno if we need to write the entry for scalar or not, still works without it anyway, it seems)
Second that PBO2 Tuner might fail at applying anything at all even if the app starts up as scheduled, because the '*Do not store password*' was not ticked yet might be required for people who log in Windows using a session password. (that fixed it for me on W10) The guide would need to mention that.
Answers to the first are buried deep within this forum (iirc p85) or the CoreCycle one, and the session password matter is not mentioned at all.
That's it, I think it would be very useful and welcome if these two topics could be clarified in the guide if the good person who wrote it would be so kind as to update it, pretty please ! because the link is shared by many globally to help 5800X3D owners...who still end up in a dead-end, like asking advice on youtube or reddit or from people who don't know better.

Thank you. ^^


----------



## marceloavf

BCB57 said:


> Yes, recommend you try a negative 0.0500v offset and see what that does for you.
> (Edit) Either that or try a higher numerical (=more voltage droop) LLC setting. I just switched from -0.0500 vcore and Auto LLC to Auto vcore and LLC Mode 5. Extremely similar results overall.


Higher LLC will undervolt the CPU?


----------



## Tangenius

Farih said:


> Dont know why everyone says 1207 is so bad.
> My boost clocks are great with 1207 tbh.
> 
> View attachment 2583859
> 
> 
> lol?


What settings are you running? I'm hardstuck at 44,5 for some reason on 1207, tried all kinds of ST workloads .


----------



## StevieRay2

Tangenius said:


> What settings are you running? I'm hardstuck at 44,5 for some reason on 1207, tried all kinds of ST workloads .


Have you tried boostester with everything closed? virus scanners etc etc, if you can hit max ST with that program then your boosting is fine.


----------



## Soap88888

Hi, I just got my 5800x3D last night and now try to tune by PBO2 tuner. 
However, I can' open PBO2 tuner.exe. 
Everytime I click the exe and it just run a little time and nothing happened.
System: Win11 2022
MB:aorus b550 pro ac
BIOS:F15D
Confirmed Valorant is removed and AMD chipset driver is latest


----------



## dansi

mikalcarbine said:


> I've had my X3D for a few weeks now and I've been dialing it in. I can't for the life of me get 1900 FCLK stable. I backed down to 1867 and dialed in my voltages and ended up with this
> 
> View attachment 2583817
> 
> 
> I'm pretty happy with it especially because I could get the voltages pretty low, SOC and VDDG IOD seem to be my bottlenecks. I still need to run some comparison benchmarks to make sure I'm not losing any performance by running this low but it is stable.
> 
> At 1900 I've gone through dozens of voltage combinations and ranges for each voltage, testing methodically as I go. The best I can get to is a random WHEA or two every hour or so while running y-cruncher HNT and Heaven benchmark together. I've been playing with ProcODT a bit and lowering it did seem to help a bit. Memory is Micron Rev E which ran 100% stable at these timings and frequencies on my 5600x on the same motherboard.
> 
> View attachment 2583818
> 
> 
> Any suggestions?


try 
ProODT auto
1.1v VDDG CCD
0.95V VDDP


----------



## Farih

Tangenius said:


> What settings are you running? I'm hardstuck at 44,5 for some reason on 1207, tried all kinds of ST workloads .


That picture was just a joke, i wish i boosted to 5,4ghz lol.

Only run -25 all core.
Single core 4550mhz and all core 4450mhz.
Basicly same as 90% of the people in here.


----------



## Petrarca

Hy guys. I have possibility to buy msi tomahawk b550 or asus b550-f for the same price. asus i definetly better, but msi has kombo strike which I prefere against software method. There are any news that asus will receve CO in their bios?


----------



## StevieRay2

I prefer the Tomahawk, like their bios better than asus too


----------



## chrisz5z

Petrarca said:


> Hy guys. I have possibility to buy msi tomahawk b550 or asus b550-f for the same price. asus i definetly better, but msi has kombo strike which I prefere against software method. There are any news that asus will receve CO in their bios?


I have the B550-F. The most recent BIOs with AGESA 1.2.0.7 gave me nothing but stability problems. The one with 1.2.0.6b is running fine so far. Just go for the MSI, I'd be surprised if this ASUS board gets another update.


----------



## AXi0M

Petrarca said:


> Hy guys. I have possibility to buy msi tomahawk b550 or asus b550-f for the same price. asus i definetly better, but msi has kombo strike which I prefere against software method. There are any news that asus will receve CO in their bios?


the BIOS' asus put out this week for a few boards have CO for 5800X3D, just waiting for my board to get it


----------



## frankie90

AXi0M said:


> the BIOS' asus put out this week for a few boards have CO for 5800X3D, just waiting for my board to get it


My Strix X570-I got an update yesterday. All that’s listed in the release notes is “Improve system compatibility.” I’ve been sticking with AGESA 1.2.0.6b, so I don’t really want to take the plunge and lose all my settings unless this brings CO. I wonder if this is it though… wouldn’t they list it in the release notes?


----------



## MrHoof

frankie90 said:


> My Strix X570-I got an update yesterday. All that’s listed in the release notes is “Improve system compatibility.” I’ve been sticking with AGESA 1.2.0.6b, so I don’t really want to take the plunge and lose all my settings unless this brings CO. I wonder if this is it though… wouldn’t they list it in the release notes?


Can confirm X570-I has CO under PBO in bios with the new version just tried it this evening. Changes applied in BIOS are displayed in PBO2 tuner.
BCLK overclocking still does not work, same behavoir stuck at baseclock if touched.


----------



## 681933

Hello, I'm switching from a 5900X to a 5800X3D for several reasons, mainly to not bottleneck the 7900 XTX I'll be getting next month. I want this thing to last me the next 2 years.

Anyway, I've just found out that I can tune CO and PBO2 using PBO2 Tuner on this CPU despite that functionality being locked. Now, I also see a "Fmax" option as in, max boost clock override. Can I really get the 5800X3D to have a +200 MHz override using the Max Boost option in PBO Tuner2? Seems too good to be true, but wanted to confirm this with you existing 5800X3D owners before I get too excited. Even if I can't, just allowing me to use CO and PBO2 is enough. That's easily the best part about my 5900X currently.

Also, does the 5800X3D have the XFR boost to 4.65 GHz (4500 + 150)? And anyone here with my board (ROG Strix B550-F) can confirm if the latest BIOS (2803) has PBO2 & CO enabled for this CPU? Nvm, looks like I need to wait for a new BIOS version, but that's fine I'll use the program until it arrives.


----------



## MrHoof

Crylune said:


> Hello, I'm switching from a 5900X to a 5800X3D for several reasons, mainly to not bottleneck the 7900 XTX I'll be getting next month. I want this thing to last me the next 2 years.
> 
> Anyway, I've just found out that I can tune CO and PBO2 using PBO2 Tuner on this CPU despite that functionality being locked. Now, I also see a "Fmax" option as in, max boost clock override. Can I really get the 5800X3D to have a +200 MHz override using the Max Boost option in PBO Tuner2? Seems too good to be true, but wanted to confirm this with you existing 5800X3D owners before I get too excited. Even if I can't, just allowing me to use CO and PBO2 is enough. That's easily the best part about my 5900X currently.
> 
> Also, does the 5800X3D have the XFR boost to 4.65 GHz (4500 + 150)? And anyone here with my board (ROG Strix B550-F) can confirm if the latest BIOS (2803) has PBO2 & CO enabled for this CPU? Nvm, looks like I need to wait for a new BIOS version, but that's fine I'll use the program until it arrives.


Curve Optimizer yes but boost override is locked on any vendor. Only some boards allow BCLK overclock, but even at stock 4450 all core its a beast of a cpu.


----------



## 681933

MrHoof said:


> Curve Optimizer yes but boost override is locked on any vendor. Only some boards allow BCLK overclock, but even at stock 4450 all core its a beast of a cpu.


Ah well, good enough I suppose. I'm gonna miss seeing my 4.8 - 4.9 boosts on this CPU, but it doesn't really matter when it doesn't translate to much performance. Looking forward to receiving this CPU and hopefully doing -30 all core. I am appalled that this 5900X can only do -15.

Just to be clear, I can _increase_ PBO limits using this tool, right?


----------



## AXi0M

Crylune said:


> Ah well, good enough I suppose. I'm gonna miss seeing my 4.8 - 4.9 boosts on this CPU, but it doesn't really matter when it doesn't translate to much performance. Looking forward to receiving this CPU and hopefully doing -30 all core. I am appalled that this 5900X can only do -15.
> 
> Just to be clear, I can _increase_ PBO limits using this tool, right?


you cant raise limits but it already has stock 142 PPT 95 TDC and 140 ECD which is board limits.


----------



## 681933

AXi0M said:


> you cant raise limits but it already has stock 142 PPT 95 TDC and 140 ECD which is board limits.


Read somewhere that I could still increase limits through *Advanced -> AMD CBS -> NBIO Settings -> XFR Enchancement*. Will try that. Though the main thing I'm interested in is the curve optimizer as it allowed me to get much better performance out of my current CPU.


----------



## MrHoof

Crylune said:


> Read somewhere that I could still increase limits through *Advanced -> AMD CBS -> NBIO Settings -> XFR Enchancement*. Will try that. Though the main thing I'm interested in is the curve optimizer as it allowed me to get much better performance out of my current CPU.


At stock frequencys it will never reach any of those limits, so u dont really need to increase them.


----------



## 681933

MrHoof said:


> At stock frequencys it will never reach any of those limits, so u dont really need to increase them.


Fair enough.


----------



## MrHoof

Crylune said:


> Fair enough.


Wish u look with the lottery  I lost it my Core3 is garbage tier and does only -8 while being 2nd worst core, but even this sample is still performing decent.


----------



## 681933

MrHoof said:


> Wish u look with the lottery  I lost it my Core3 is garbage tier and does only -8 while being core 2nd worst core, but even this sample is still performing decent.


I'm really hoping I can just slamdunk a -30 in there and be done with it lmao but we'll see. I don't mind tuning each core until I find the best offsets.

Also, U12A twins. How is this cooler performing with the X3D? Clocks? Temps?


----------



## MrHoof

Crylune said:


> I'm really hoping I can just slamdunk a -30 in there and be done with it lmao but we'll see. I don't mind tuning each core until I find the best offsets.
> 
> Also, U12A twins. How is this cooler performing with the X3D? Clocks? Temps?


Well wasnt hard to figure out its garbage, in ycrunsher n64 it would crash in all core load in a instant at -30 while throwing whea18 for core3 until it reached -14 it survived 2 loops but still crashed until -8.

U12A is decent enough to keep it below 80°C if u living in a 20-22°C ambient.

edit: u12a and itx wich case your using ?


----------



## 681933

MrHoof said:


> Well wasnt hard to figure out its garbage, in ycrunsher n64 it would crash in all core load in a instant at -30 while throwing whea18 for core3 until it reached -14 it survived 2 loops but still crashed until -8.
> 
> U12A is decent enough to keep it below 80°C if u living in a 20-22°C ambient.
> 
> edit: u12a and itx wich case your using ?


Ycruncher will probably be the only thing I'll use. Gonna go -30 on each core individually and if it crashes, go down in -5 steps, until I have the best offsets I can have on each core.

I'm using a be quiet! Pure Base 500DX outfitted with four Silent Wings 3 140mm PWM, 2 intakes, 2 exhausts. NT-H2 paste. 21C ambient (or lower, I like keeping my room cool).


----------



## MrHoof

Crylune said:


> Ycruncher will probably be the only thing I'll use. Gonna go -30 on each core individually and if it crashes, go down in -5 steps, until I have the best offsets I can have on each core.
> 
> I'm using a be quiet! Pure Base 500DX outfitted with four Silent Wings 3 140mm PWM, 2 intakes, 2 exhausts. NT-H2 paste. 21C ambient (or lower, I like keeping my room cool).


You should be fine my nr200 does not even have a option for intake, I am just running 2x120 arcitc p12 as exhaust top (I dont mind the noise) and a A12x25 120mm for my ram sitting on my GPU relying on negative pressure to pull in air through the side panel.


----------



## 681933

MrHoof said:


> You should be fine my nr200 does not even have a option for intake, I am just running 2x120 arcitc p12 as exhaust top (I dont mind the noise) and a A12x25 120mm for my ram sitting on my GPU.


Nice. My case has pretty high airflow and I reach around 76C max with this 5900X (170 PPT / 110 TDC / 150 EDC) in Cinebench R23 multi-core, so I'm not worried. I kinda stopped worrying about temps on Zen 3 and above.


----------



## frankie90

MrHoof said:


> Can confirm X570-I has CO under PBO in bios with the new version just tried it this evening. Changes applied in BIOS are displayed in PBO2 tuner.
> BCLK overclocking still does not work, same behavoir stuck at baseclock if touched.


Amazing, glad to hear it! Thanks for the info!


----------



## Owterspace

Yup same here on B550-XE, they basically added PBO2 Tuning Tool into the PBO section. At least it's a start... and its nice not to have to enter it manually after every boot! Thanks for the updates


----------



## 681933

Hope they won't forget about my B550-F lol.


----------



## Owterspace

Crylune said:


> Hope they won't forget about my B550-F lol.


I have that board running a 5600X, had it since 2020.. they used to have a bios for that thing every week it seemed. Now they just forgot about it.


----------



## 681933

Owterspace said:


> I have that board running a 5600X, had it since 2020.. they used to have a bios for that thing every week it seemed. Now they just forgot about it.


I suppose I just need to wait, but it's not an issue, can use the program until they bestow CO upon me in the BIOS.


----------



## Imprezzion

Crylune said:


> Hope they won't forget about my B550-F lol.


Same with my B550-A which is basically an F with white heatsinks. I really hope they make it for us as well. One less program to run. I bought a 1tb 980 Pro on black friday sale and wanna do a fresh install with as little as possible software in the background.


----------



## marceloavf

I scored 9 120 in Time Spy


AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, AMD Radeon RX 6600M x 1, 16384 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com





Stable with -30 all core, PPT 114 TDC 75 EDC 115
Using Scythe Fuma 2 as cooler, CoreCycle ran during the night with zero errors, almost 15000 pts in CinebenchR23


----------



## marceloavf

New TUF GAMING X570-PLUS BIOS 4408 and people are saying that CO is back!


----------



## Dolenc

Dolenc said:


> Yea think its that id19, not close to the pc at the moment to check.
> Was a bit surprised, tbh I expected I would be stepping up to 3800mhz. And desynced IF works just fine at 1900mhz, but when synced with memory 1700mhz already unstable. Think I will just give it time, if they fix something with new bios revisions and just run it at 3200 for now, my tinkering itch can wait a little.


Gave it another shot, short description 3600mhz on mem worked fine with previous ryzen 3600, but 5800x3d was only stable with 3200mhz, using the same settings 
My memory 2x16gb crucial sport [email protected], e-die, pcb rev b2, dual rank, gigabyte b550i board.

Punched in the settings from the calculator, fast preset.
No geardown mode, command 1t, mem and if synced.
1.4v vMem, Vsoc 1.04v, vddp 940mv, vddg 990mv

procOdt 43.6ohm, cad 40-20-20-24.

And who would have know. Works now!!!!! No whea err, no crashes. For a day atleast. Happy now


----------



## BJT1000

Dolenc said:


> Gave it another shot, short description 3600mhz on mem worked fine with previous ryzen 3600, but 5800x3d was only stable with 3200mhz, using the same settings
> My memory 2x16gb crucial sport [email protected], e-die, pcb rev b2, dual rank, gigabyte b550i board.
> 
> Punched in the settings from the calculator, fast preset.
> No geardown mode, command 1t, mem and if synced.
> 1.4v vMem, Vsoc 1.04v, vddp 940mv, vddg 990mv
> 
> procOdt 43.6ohm, cad 40-20-20-24.
> 
> And who would have know. Works now!!!!! No whea err, no crashes. For a day atleast. Happy now
> 
> View attachment 2585422


Don't use DRAM calculator - its absolute garbage.

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/mcfkan


----------



## 681933

BJT1000 said:


> Don't use DRAM calculator - its absolute garbage.
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/mcfkan


Yeah I don't trust any of 1usmus tools after his Clock Tuner decided to set my 3900X to 1.55v manual then run an AVX test...

So I just dialed in 3800, tightened some secondary and tertiary timings, tightened tCL and tRFC, and I called it a day. My kit won't do CL14 no matter what lol.


----------



## Dolenc

Eh the tool is fine, it applys no values, its up to the user if you wanna just copy them or put some thought and testing into your settings.


----------



## StevieRay2

With someone with no experience with RAM tuning at all, DRAM Calc was a good baseline, then got people from here to help me tune it even more


----------



## Najenda

i fixed noise problems, its a fairly old aio but not a bad one (seidon 240v) with four sp120. i connected all aio fans to cpu_fan with 4 to 1 splitter and activated silent mode. with pbo2 tuner i never go above 70.photo is old but everything is same except gpu.


----------



## Blameless

BJT1000 said:


> Don't use DRAM calculator - its absolute garbage.
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/mcfkan





Dolenc said:


> Eh the tool is fine, it applys no values, its up to the user if you wanna just copy them or put some thought and testing into your settings.





StevieRay2 said:


> With someone with no experience with RAM tuning at all, DRAM Calc was a good baseline, then got people from here to help me tune it even more


Not going to say the tool is totally worthless, but it is outdated and isn't suited either for novices who cannot interpret what it spits out, nor for experts who have experience with the ICs in question.

I still use it for reference on occasion for those ICs that I'm not very familiar with, but all the criticisms pointed out in that reddit post are accurate.


----------



## MrHoof

Blameless said:


> Not going to say the tool is totally worthless, but it is outdated and isn't suited either for novices who cannot interpret what it spits out, nor for experts who have experience with the ICs in question.
> 
> I still use it for reference on occasion for those ICs that I'm not very familiar with, but all the criticisms pointed out in that reddit post are accurate.


If u input the correct IC the safe profile is normaly better then XMP and works 99% of the time even with default RTT/CAD and it even has Geardown mode on.
For beginner I would say the safe profile is a good starting point imo.


----------



## Dolenc

Tool is fine, most of the complains from that post are valid, but pointless, this is an OC forum afterall. Im very happy someone put all those "recomendations" in an app.

"*4. No guidance on how to deal with failed memory settings is provided.*" Dafuck, you want 1usmus to pat your back and get you a juicebox too when you oc?

Anyway... I ended up at vSoc 1v, vddp 880mv, vddg 930mv for [email protected] on my e-die dualrank sticks, dont want to go higher, its a sff build afterall.
No errors, no crashes, never seen voltages this low with ryzen 3600.

Cinebench went from 14275(same 3600mhz, but what became unstable) to 14426, so on account of lower vsoc. Also 65w profile powerlimits applied and -30 on all cores.

My opinion went from, **** 5800x3d mc sht, to... Well... best I had from ryzens(had 2600, 3600, 5800x3d), not bad at all.


----------



## Najenda

today pc boot up, in windows usb devices didnt open, (mouse,keyboard,others) i restarted 2 times it got stuck on bios screen, in the final i managed to bios somehow and usb was working, i loaded optimized options. is it software issue or hardware ? i got new processor but i didnt fresh install or restarted bios


----------



## REKLISS

Here are the results I got following this thread. Open to any advice on getting getting higher clocks and cpu to boost more often.


----------



## 681933

Strix B550-F owners, rejoice, for we finally have CO on 5800X3D without the need for PBO Tuner2.


----------



## icehotshot

Crylune said:


> Strix B550-F owners, rejoice, for we finally have CO on 5800X3D without the need for PBO Tuner2.
> 
> View attachment 2585811


Nice!

And the wait for Gigabyte owners is on.............


----------



## Imprezzion

Crylune said:


> Strix B550-F owners, rejoice, for we finally have CO on 5800X3D without the need for PBO Tuner2.
> 
> View attachment 2585811


The B550-A has received it as well! One lottle question. Do BIOS OC profiles stay after a flash or can we back them up on USB and load them on a newer BIOS? I know with MSI this doesn't work but maybe on ASUS it does otherwise I have to save my memory OC with screenshots first.


----------



## xlollomanx

Guys who have the 5800x3d on a gigabyte motherboard (I have b550 aorus elite ax v2) with 5800x3d can u tell the status of your tpm? I've just installed it and in the windows security it show in TPM status: Attestation "not supported" but "ready" on memory as in the screenshot. I've tried everything from bios and windows to reset it. Even downgrading from bios 1.2.0.7 to 1.2.0.3B.
Thank u


Spoiler: image


----------



## zixsie

Can anyone do some CPU heavy gaming benchmarks to compare the memory scaling between 3200-3600-3800-4000mhz if possible? The are plenty of statements that 5800x3d does not scale well with faster ram, but i do not think this is true, especially for 1% low FPS.


----------



## 681933

xlollomanx said:


> Guys who have the 5800x3d on a gigabyte motherboard (I have b550 aorus elite ax v2) with 5800x3d can u tell the status of your tpm? I've just installed it and in the windows security it show in TPM status: Attestation "not supported" but "ready" on memory as in the screenshot. I've tried everything from bios and windows to reset it. Even downgrading from bios 1.2.0.7 to 1.2.0.3B.
> Thank u


What does it say when you run *tpm.msc *?

Because Windows Security can have interface bugs that show things like that.


----------



## 681933

zixsie said:


> Can anyone do some CPU heavy gaming benchmarks to compare the memory scaling between 3200-3600-3800-4000mhz if possible? The are plenty of statements that 5800x3d does not scale well with faster ram, but i do not think this is true, especially for 1% low FPS.


In the benchmarks I've seen, 5800X3D performs really well with tuned 3800 MT/s memory, especially dual rank or 4 slots filled.


----------



## xlollomanx

Crylune said:


> What does it say when you run *tpm.msc *?
> 
> Because Windows Security can have interface bugs that show things like that.


From there seems all it's fine. Just to add more information my chipset driver are "amd_chipset_software_4.11.15.342" latest avaible on amd site. Another thing is when w11 released I deleted from taskschd._msc_ the schedule "AikCertEnrollTask" I backupped it but now I can't restore it, at that time there was a bug with it. Don't know if this is the problem. Before I had installe a normal 5800x, if this matter.

the status "TPM pronto per l'utilizzo" means "TPM ready to use", if it's a bug I probably have to refresh my windows installation these holidays



Spoiler: Image


----------



## 681933

xlollomanx said:


> From there seems all it's fine. Just to add more information my chipset driver are "amd_chipset_software_4.11.15.342" latest avaible on amd site. Another thing is when w11 released I deleted from taskschd._msc_ the schedule "AikCertEnrollTask" I backupped it but now I can't restore it, at that time there was a bug with it. Don't know if this is the problem. Before I had installe a normal 5800x, if this matter.
> 
> the status "TPM pronto per l'utilizzo" means "TPM ready to use", if it's a bug I probably have to refresh my windows installation these holidays


Then it's fine, you can ignore it.


----------



## xlollomanx

Crylune said:


> Then it's fine, you can ignore it.


Ok thank u. I was getting mad at it.


----------



## Mobie

Need help on whea 18 SMT off
Processor APIC ID: 2 

2 should be core 1 or 2? while SMT off

Thanks


----------



## fas7play

hello owners, any ASRock B550(m) Steel Legend users around? do you use special bios settings?
well.. performance is there: 15300 CB-R23 / 12900 cpu - time spy

1.) picture shows -25 all core (boosttester +HWiNFO (+snapshot CPU polling)
left = power on -> win11 boot, all fine, stable, no WHEA, no game crash. cool.
right = after sleep mode...
why are ~20-30mV missing? and guess what.. if i touch cinebench R23 -> system crash/reboot.
ASRock related?









2.) if I set more than 3800 MT.. i have less performance?
dont get me wrong,even 4000 MT is working, R23 etc.. but the FPS/games/output is lower.
made 3200 - 3600 - 3800 compare.. and saw the FPS drop @3800

3.) i am using a setting like this..
-14 -20 -28 -22 -24 -26 -25 -22 114 75 115 0
starting with boosttester and -30 all cores, adding some buffer, then match all cores to the worst (in my case: core 2)

is a setting like -20 all core much "better"? (my 3DMark/CB results were created with the individual settings)

i think ASRock did no good job with the bios..
2.30 and PBO (eg. -10 all) was a crash wonderland
L2.32 much better
2.50 ok, but many flaws (like no SOC setting..)


----------



## pastuch

Just got a 5800x3d and the latest bios on my Tuf X570 Gaming Wifi. Cooler is Noctua NH-D15, case has epic airflow Bequiet Purebase 500dx with 2x140mm intakes. I can successfully use PBO in the BIOS, -30 all core was easy. Performance is amazing compared to my 5600x, it couldn't even do -10 all core. Anything above 1900/3800 is whea error city but I'm not sure if the issue is my 4x8gb Bdie, memory timings or the CPU. AIDA memory latency is 58.3. Any suggestions?

It runs Warzone 2 at 4450mhz consistently and performs beautifully. Now if they would just nerf aim assist.


----------



## pastuch

zixsie said:


> Can anyone do some CPU heavy gaming benchmarks to compare the memory scaling between 3200-3600-3800-4000mhz if possible? The are plenty of statements that 5800x3d does not scale well with faster ram, but i do not think this is true, especially for 1% low FPS.


 It doesn't scale with crazy tight memory timings. It definitely does scale with higher memory speeds. Each time I moved up a step I saw large 1% low increases in Warzone 2 (The only game that matters).


----------



## 681933

pastuch said:


> Just got a 5800x3d and the latest bios on my Tuf X570 Gaming Wifi. Cooler is Noctua NH-D15, case has epic airflow Bequiet Purebase 500dx with 2x140mm intakes. I can successfully use PBO in the BIOS, -30 all core was easy. Performance is amazing compared to my 5600x, it couldn't even do -10 all core. Anything above 1900/3800 is whea error city but I'm not sure if the issue is my 4x8gb Bdie, memory timings or the CPU. AIDA memory latency is 58.3. Any suggestions?
> 
> It runs Warzone 2 at 4450mhz consistently and performs beautifully. Now if they would just nerf aim assist.
> 
> View attachment 2585872
> View attachment 2585871
> 
> View attachment 2585873


Keep it at 3800 / 1900 on Zen 3 IMHO.

My 5900X can only do -15 all core. Hope my upcoming 5800X3D will be able of -30. Did you run ycruncher yet, or just OCCT for stability testing?


----------



## tryout1

Crylune said:


> Keep it at 3800 / 1900 on Zen 3 IMHO.
> 
> My 5900X can only do -15 all core. Hope my upcoming 5800X3D will be able of -30. Did you run ycruncher yet, or just OCCT for stability testing?


Can recommend ycruncher too, used it on my 5900x to find some stability issues i had with 1-2 cores in 12-20hrs, where i could let corecycler run for 3 days straight.

Btw i just changed too from a 5900x to a 5800x3D too cause that 4090 was bottleneck like hell with the former CPU, after some issues with locked VDDG voltage, it's running fine now at 3800/1900 and seems to run -30 CO easily on that already ancient CH7. I didn't try warzone 2 yet, but PSO2:NGS got a nifty 20fps boost and i'm sitting at basically engine locked 180 fps now.


----------



## 681933

tryout1 said:


> Btw i just changed too from a 5900x to a 5800x3D too cause that 4090 was bottleneck like hell with the former CPU, after some issues with locked VDDG voltage, it's running fine now at 3800/1900 and seems to run -30 CO easily on that already ancient CH7. I didn't try warzone 2 yet, but PSO2:NGS got a nifty 20fps boost and i'm sitting at basically engine locked 180 fps now.


Amazing to hear and I'm glad that I was right about the 5900X bottlenecking next gen GPUs. Makes me even more confident about my switch. Can't wait for this thing to arrive!


----------



## pastuch

Crylune said:


> Keep it at 3800 / 1900 on Zen 3 IMHO.
> 
> My 5900X can only do -15 all core. Hope my upcoming 5800X3D will be able of -30. Did you run ycruncher yet, or just OCCT for stability testing?


Just OCCT, will do Ycruncher next, good suggestion. I gradually increased in -5 increments, never a hiccup so far. It's my first good bin on Ryzen and my third CPU in this motherboard. X570 is officially my favorite platform in 20 years, this motherboard has evolved massively in the last 3 years. Very good bios though I prefer MSI layout.


----------



## 681933

pastuch said:


> Just OCCT, will do Ycruncher next, good suggestion. I gradually increased in -5 increments, never a hiccup so far. It's my first good bin on Ryzen and my third CPU in this motherboard. X570 is officially my favorite platform in 20 years, this motherboard has evolved massively in the last 3 years. Very good bios though I prefer MSI layout.


That's my CO go-to, -5 increments with ycruncher until I'm satisfied. Hopefully I can just slap in -30, let ycruncher run for a day, and deem it stable. Optimizing 8 cores individually will be easier than 12 cores, but still a hassle lol.


----------



## AXi0M

Finally got the 4408 bios on my PRIME X570-PRO nice to have CO in bios fully working, but still have higher power draw and voltages than 1.2.0.6b + PBO Tuner. It was the same with the previous bios + PBO Tuner. I'll keep the new bios since i prefer to have bios setting the curve as opposed to software in windows doing it. The higher temps and voltages are only applicable to benchmarks anyways, gaming is the same no matter what bios i use.


----------



## jonnyzeraa

Just checked and the B550M TUF PLUS WIFI got the new BIOS, but the B550M TUF PLUS not yet, hope they add this one asap too :/


----------



## 681933

Guys, how's the desktop performance (general browsing, opening folders and files, using exploer etc.) with the 5800X3D? Pretty snappy on my 5900X, but I'm wondering if the limited clock speeds will hinder that.


----------



## 681933

@tryout1 Maybe you can answer? Feel any difference between your 5900X and 5800X3D on the desktop?


----------



## tabascosauz

Crylune said:


> Guys, how's the desktop performance (general browsing, opening folders and files, using exploer etc.) with the 5800X3D? Pretty snappy on my 5900X, but I'm wondering if the limited clock speeds will hinder that.


It's alright. Not really noticeable usually, but Ryzen 5000's responsiveness does benefit a little bit from high 5GHz Fmax on 5800X PBO/5900X/5950X. Startup programs cause slightly more hiccups than 5900X. Adobe programs that traditionally benefit from clocks behave the same.

Best to get a clean install for the X3D. Using the old 5900X's Windows install had a lot of issues that were instantly resolved with fresh Windows and was quite sluggish at times, although benchmark scores were fine. Old 22H2 install was still relatively clean, but it's just good practice, also was true from 3700X>5900X.

Though some of that boot slowness may have just been the Task scheduled for PBO2 Tuner at boot; modded BIOS solves that problem


----------



## pastuch

Crylune said:


> Amazing to hear and I'm glad that I was right about the 5900X bottlenecking next gen GPUs. Makes me even more confident about my switch. Can't wait for this thing to arrive!


I switched from a ****-bin 5600x to a 5800x3d and in Warzone 2 the difference at 1440p is impressive. I went from being GPU limited on a 3080 about 50% of the time to 100% GPU limited at 1440p with the Alienware 3423DW OLED. I don't play Warzone 2 at 3440x1440p. On December 13th I'll get a 7900xtx to replace the 3080 because Warzone LOVES Radeon GPUs. At 1080p with low graphics, the performance of a 6950xt is faster than a 4090! (Warzone 2 benchmark). Then I'll probably buy the 27 inch 1440p 240hz LG OLED monitor that comes out next month if the input lag is low enough because I don't really use the ultrawide for Warzone. The goal is 240fps, 240hz 1440p in Warzone 2. I'll never go back to LCD, just tried a 360hz 1080p LCD that looked shockingly bad compared to OLED.

My best Warzone 2 Performance: 8 renderer worker count, heavily tuned 4x8bdie at 1900/3800, -30 CO PBO in latest bios, and +70hz/+700hz on 3080 GPU my 1% lows are 145fps, usually while dropping in. On the ground my FPS is 160+ with an average around 185 to 190.


----------



## xlollomanx

tabascosauz said:


> It's alright. Not really noticeable usually, but Ryzen 5000's responsiveness does benefit a little bit from high 5GHz Fmax on 5800X PBO/5900X/5950X. Startup programs cause slightly more hiccups than 5900X. Adobe programs that traditionally benefit from clocks behave the same.
> 
> Best to get a clean install for the X3D. Using the old 5900X's Windows install had a lot of issues that were instantly resolved with fresh Windows and was quite sluggish at times, although benchmark scores were fine. Old 22H2 install was still relatively clean, but it's just good practice, also was true from 3700X>5900X.
> 
> Though some of that boot slowness may have just been the Task scheduled for PBO2 Tuner at boot; modded BIOS solves that problem


Did u perhaps noted issues with TPM attestation on W11? I just swapped my 5800x with 5800x3D for cheap and now I have issues with tpm attestation status as u can see in this mine previous post I quoted below.



Spoiler: old post






xlollomanx said:


> Guys who have the 5800x3d on a gigabyte motherboard (I have b550 aorus elite ax v2) with 5800x3d can u tell the status of your tpm? I've just installed it and in the windows security it show in TPM status: Attestation "not supported" but "ready" on memory as in the screenshot. I've tried everything from bios and windows to reset it. Even downgrading from bios 1.2.0.7 to 1.2.0.3B.
> Thank u
> 
> 
> Spoiler: image
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2585830


----------



## Aaq

Hi Guys,

I am using 2 x F4-3600C16D-32GTZN with XMP profile on my Dark Hero 3801. 2 kits of F4-3600C16D-32GTZN. Everything is stable however I am getting some frametime issues. Do you think this is because of using 4x dual rank memory?

I'm getting 67ns memory latency. I probably should do a fresh Windows 11 install. I upgraded from W10 to W11.


----------



## 681933

tabascosauz said:


> It's alright. Not really noticeable usually, but Ryzen 5000's responsiveness does benefit a little bit from high 5GHz Fmax on 5800X PBO/5900X/5950X. Startup programs cause slightly more hiccups than 5900X. Adobe programs that traditionally benefit from clocks behave the same.
> 
> Best to get a clean install for the X3D. Using the old 5900X's Windows install had a lot of issues that were instantly resolved with fresh Windows and was quite sluggish at times, although benchmark scores were fine. Old 22H2 install was still relatively clean, but it's just good practice, also was true from 3700X>5900X.
> 
> Though some of that boot slowness may have just been the Task scheduled for PBO2 Tuner at boot; modded BIOS solves that problem


Idk if I want to clean install for just a same-brand, same-gen CPU swap on the same chipset. I normally only do that when swapping motherboards. But thanks, I'll consider it.


----------



## icehotshot

fas7play said:


> hello owners, any ASRock B550(m) Steel Legend users around? do you use special bios settings?
> well.. performance is there: 15300 CB-R23 / 12900 cpu - time spy
> 
> 1.) picture shows -25 all core (boosttester +HWiNFO (+snapshot CPU polling)
> left = power on -> win11 boot, all fine, stable, no WHEA, no game crash. cool.
> right = after sleep mode...
> why are ~20-30mV missing? and guess what.. if i touch cinebench R23 -> system crash/reboot.
> ASRock related?
> View attachment 2585855
> 
> 
> 2.) if I set more than 3800 MT.. i have less performance?
> dont get me wrong,even 4000 MT is working, R23 etc.. but the FPS/games/output is lower.
> made 3200 - 3600 - 3800 compare.. and saw the FPS drop @3800
> 
> 3.) i am using a setting like this..
> -14 -20 -28 -22 -24 -26 -25 -22 114 75 115 0
> starting with boosttester and -30 all cores, adding some buffer, then match all cores to the worst (in my case: core 2)
> 
> is a setting like -20 all core much "better"? (my 3DMark/CB results were created with the individual settings)
> 
> i think ASRock did no good job with the bios..
> 2.30 and PBO (eg. -10 all) was a crash wonderland
> L2.32 much better
> 2.50 ok, but many flaws (like no SOC setting..)


Can't help with the sleep settings, that's pretty much the first thing I turn off with a new windows install.

But with your lower performance with 4000mt memory, are you making sure the FCLK is set to 2000mhz to match? If it isn't in sync you will definitely get lower performance. And I know some motherboards will not automatically match the memory speed & fclk in a 1:1 ratio after a certain speed so you have to manually set it to match. Also make sure you aren't throwing WHEA errors.


----------



## tryout1

Crylune said:


> @tryout1 Maybe you can answer? Feel any difference between your 5900X and 5800X3D on the desktop?


Honestly i would say the same, didn't notice any difference anywhere, my workflow mostly just consisted of gaming and discord twitch on the side.


----------



## 681933

tryout1 said:


> Honestly i would say the same, didn't notice any difference anywhere, my workflow mostly just consisted of gaming and discord twitch on the side.


Sounds like my workflow, which further reinforces the question "why the hell did I even buy a 5900X?". Thanks!


----------



## BHS1975

You can also set scaler to 0 in the new ASUS bios.


----------



## tryout1

Crylune said:


> Sounds like my workflow, which further reinforces the question "why the hell did I even buy a 5900X?". Thanks!


Well in my case, if that helps you, i did VM stuff on the side + i always sorta wanted 4 cores as spare on the side to do x264 med/slow when streaming but with that 4090 now i can completely discard that anyways due to the better encoder + hardware AV1. With the 2080 Ti i had previously, nvenc worked very good too but i noticed fps drops when streaming or left shadowplay on which was about 10fps avg depending on game and load.


----------



## 681933

tryout1 said:


> Well in my case, if that helps you, i did VM stuff on the side + i always sorta wanted 4 cores as spare on the side to do x264 med/slow when streaming but with that 4090 now i can completely discard that anyways due to the better encoder + hardware AV1. With the 2080 Ti i had previously, nvenc worked very good too but i noticed fps drops when streaming or left shadowplay on which was about 10fps avg depending on game and load.


Interesting. I'll try out AV1 as well when I get the 7900 XTX.


----------



## bmagnien

BHS1975 said:


> You can also set scaler to 0 in the new ASUS bios.


What does that do?


----------



## AXi0M

bmagnien said:


> What does that do?


Makes the cpu run slower


----------



## bmagnien

AXi0M said:


> Makes the cpu run slower


Lmao sign me up


----------



## 681933

AXi0M said:


> Makes the cpu run slower


To be fair, the PBO scalar was pretty useless for me. All it did was hurt thermals for no performance gain.


----------



## Aaq

Aaq said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I am using 2 x F4-3600C16D-32GTZN with XMP profile on my Dark Hero 3801. 2 kits of F4-3600C16D-32GTZN. Everything is stable however I am getting some frametime issues. Do you think this is because of using 4x dual rank memory?
> 
> I'm getting 67ns memory latency. I probably should do a fresh Windows 11 install. I upgraded from W10 to W11.


Found an anwser to my own question. Quad rank has no impact on frametimes - Performance increase for gamers: Memory with single-rank, dual-rank and quad-rank explained and compared | Practice with benchmarks | Page 2 | igor'sLAB

Thanks for all the help guys!!


----------



## Ha-Nocri

It's amazing that in some scenes of some games even 5800X3D at 1400p is bottle-necking RX 6800









Only 57 FPS


----------



## bmagnien

New BIOS putting in work. -30 all core, topped 15.3k in CB for first time without tweaking anything else:


----------



## 681933

Ha-Nocri said:


> It's amazing that in some scenes of some games even 5800X3D at 1400p is bottle-necking RX 6800
> 
> View attachment 2586248
> 
> 
> Only 57 FPS


Tbh I think it's less of a bottleneck scenario (really doubt 5800X3D bottlenecks a 6800) and more so that the game doesn't fully utillize the GPU when it needs to. Example with my 5900X "bottlenecking":


----------



## pastuch

Ha-Nocri said:


> It's amazing that in some scenes of some games even 5800X3D at 1400p is bottle-necking RX 6800
> 
> View attachment 2586248
> 
> 
> Only 57 FPS


Everybody hates on Huang when he says that CPUs just aren't evolving fast enough.... I hate to admit it but he's totally right. If you play competitive sweaty games like Warzone 2 there are no CPUs that will be able to keep up with a 4090 or 7900XTX at 1080p and now also 1440p. The 13900k is only 3% faster than the 12900k. Ryzen is basically identical performance to a 13900k until the new 3d chips come out next month. Maybe a 7800x3d will be able to come close to pushing a 4090 to it's limits in Warzone 2 at 1440p but I doubt it. We really need 240fps+ capable CPUs and they just don't exist.


----------



## pastuch

Crylune said:


> Tbh I think it's less of a bottleneck scenario (really doubt 5800X3D bottlenecks a 6800) and more so that the game doesn't fully utillize the GPU when it needs to. Example with my 5900X "bottlenecking":


I mean, it's spiderman. In single player games 100fps is plenty. The issue is for sweaty games with crazy massive maps where people want 200 fps+ at all times.


----------



## pastuch

bmagnien said:


> New BIOS putting in work. -30 all core, topped 15.3k in CB for first time without tweaking anything else:
> 
> View attachment 2586257


Please share more info: Which Ram? 1900/3800? AIDA latency?


----------



## 681933

pastuch said:


> Everybody hates on Huang when he says that CPUs just aren't evolving fast enough.... I hate to admit it but he's totally right. If you play competitive sweaty games like Warzone 2 there are no CPUs that will be able to keep up with a 4090 or 7900XTX at 1080p and now also 1440p. The 13900k is only 3% faster than the 12900k. Ryzen is basically identical performance to a 13900k until the new 3d chips come out next month. Maybe a 7800x3d will be able to come close to pushing a 4090 to it's limits in Warzone 2 at 1440p but I doubt it. We really need 240fps+ capable CPUs and they just don't exist.


Pretty sure the 7900 XTX will perform better when CPU limited, as it always has been with Radeon.



pastuch said:


> I mean, it's spiderman. In single player games 100fps is plenty. The issue is for sweaty games with crazy massive maps where people want 200 fps+ at all times.


Yeah, but the point was that nothing is bottlenecking here, that's just how the game is.


----------



## AXi0M

Crylune said:


> Yeah, but the point was that nothing is bottlenecking here, that's just how the game is.


If the GPU isn't at 99% with an uncapped framerate then there is a bottleneck. it might be a single cpu thread at 100% load or some sort of memory bottleneck, but it is there.


----------



## pastuch

AXi0M said:


> If the GPU isn't at 99% with an uncapped framerate then there is a bottleneck. it might be a single cpu thread at 100% load or some sort of memory bottleneck, but it is there.


In those situations it's just terrible porting or game design. No modern game should using so few cores and yet here we are seeing it happen in 2022 regularly.


----------



## ttnuagmada

Well, it looks like AMD is pretty quick with the RMA's at least. My bad chip arrived at AMD today, and they've already checked and cleared a replacement.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Crylune said:


> Tbh I think it's less of a bottleneck scenario (really doubt 5800X3D bottlenecks a 6800) and more so that the game doesn't fully utillize the GPU when it needs to. Example with my 5900X "bottlenecking":
> 
> View attachment 2586262


Nice, you found the building 

It's definitely bottle-necking as GPU is at 150W, but usually it's above 200-225W, something is holding it back. I use max quality settings and RT on high btw. FPS are usually from 70 to 90 FPS while I play


----------



## AzerHKS

Sorry, it was probably already discussed but I cant find it. 
Is this true that push the Infinity Fabric to 1900MHz with the RAM @3800MHz make little to no difference?
Saw some peoples on Reddit even report no gain from 3200 to 3600, this hard to believe.
I'm still playing with PBO2 Tuner for now but wondering if it's worth to investigate further or no.


----------



## icehotshot

AzerHKS said:


> Sorry, it was probably already discussed but I cant find it.
> Is this true that push the Infinity Fabric to 1900MHz with the RAM @3800MHz make little to no difference?
> Saw some peoples on Reddit even report no gain from 3200 to 3600, this hard to believe.
> I'm still playing with PBO2 Tuner for now but wondering if it's worth to investigate further or no.


I've heard that the performance increase with higher memory is 25 to 50% the increase you would get with a non 3d chip.

So it should still give you more gaming performance, but just not as much of an increase as a non 3d chip and will be more game dependent as well. Some games may show a few percent gain and others may not.









AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D Review: Gaming-First CPU


Making CPU cores faster rather than adding more cores is the best way to boost PC gaming performance. That's why AMD has supercharged their 8-core, 16-thread CPU...




www.techspot.com


----------



## Chuckclc

Just got me one of these for 329usd on Amazon. Was trying to decide between Ryzen 7xxx series or Raptor Lake. Decided since gaming is my number 1 usage that the 5800x3D would be the way I go. That and the price to upgrade. Coming from a 5600X so just an easy drop in. Looks like some pretty good tips and tools here.


----------



## 681933

Chuckclc said:


> Just got me one of these for 329usd on Amazon. Was trying to decide between Ryzen 7xxx series or Raptor Lake. Decided since gaming is my number 1 usage that the 5800x3D would be the way I go. That and the price to upgrade. Coming from a 5600X so just an easy drop in. Looks like some pretty good tips and tools here.


Yeah, neither of thoes gens are worth it for gaming when the 5800X3D exists and you're already on AM4.


----------



## 681933

Ha-Nocri said:


> Nice, you found the building
> 
> It's definitely bottle-necking as GPU is at 150W, but usually it's above 200-225W, something is holding it back. I use max quality settings and RT on high btw. FPS are usually from 70 to 90 FPS while I play


Yep, *something* is holding it back. But as I said, doubt it's the CPU.


----------



## AzerHKS

icehotshot said:


> I've heard that the performance increase with higher memory is 25 to 50% the increase you would get with a non 3d chip.
> 
> So it should still give you more gaming performance, but just not as much of an increase as a non 3d chip and will be more game dependent as well. Some games may show a few percent gain and others may not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D Review: Gaming-First CPU
> 
> 
> Making CPU cores faster rather than adding more cores is the best way to boost PC gaming performance. That's why AMD has supercharged their 8-core, 16-thread CPU...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.techspot.com


Still always good to take, will run some test, thx for reply.


----------



## Owterspace

I can run 1933 1:1 on mine with 4x8. If you are looking at something like Aida 64 1933 1:1 on a regular Zen 3 part is pretty good. But 1933 1:1 on X3D is like what you would see at 1866 on a regular Zen 3 part.


----------



## 681933

Owterspace said:


> I can run 1933 1:1 on mine with 4x8. If you are looking at something like Aida 64 1933 1:1 on a regular Zen 3 part is pretty good. But 1933 1:1 on X3D is like what you would see at 1866 on a regular Zen 3 part.


I'm also 4x8 GB Trident Z on a Strix B550 board, may I have your ZenTimings? Asking for a friend


----------



## 681933

Look what arrived ⭐w⭐


----------



## Owterspace

Crylune said:


> I'm also 4x8 GB Trident Z on a Strix B550 board, may I have your ZenTimings? Asking for a friend
> [


Sure I will make my way to my computer. It is pretty much at its default 2133 timings.


----------



## Owterspace

Okay


----------



## ManniX-ITA

I have updated my custom power plans.
There's also a new Snappy, which is pretty popular for the 3D.
And an Ultimate LowPower, now my favorite.
All the plans have now USB Selective Suspend enabled, which has fixed USB drop-outs for me.


----------



## 681933

Sadly, my X3D hates anything above 1800 FCLK, so I settled on this.










Was able to boot at -30 all core and run ycruncher / Cinebench several times, I'll leave ycruncher going overnight to see if it's truly stable.


----------



## Owterspace

I'm still using the stock power plan, is there a need to change it? What is wrong with it?


----------



## Owterspace

Crylune said:


> Sadly, my X3D hates anything above 1800 FCLK, so I settled on this.
> 
> View attachment 2586490
> 
> 
> Was able to boot at -30 all core and run ycruncher / Cinebench several times, I'll leave ycruncher going overnight to see if it's truly stable.


SOC @ 1800 is 1.1 at stock, going to 1.15 is not a problem to get it to scale, and maybe increase VDDG IOD to 1.065 and see what happens.


----------



## 681933

Owterspace said:


> SOC @ 1800 is 1.1 at stock, going to 1.15 is not a problem to get it to scale, and maybe increase VDDG IOD to 1.065 and see what happens.


None of that works, I tried. It just hates it.

But it's okay, my tuned 3600 CL14 should be as fast as my previous 3800 CL16 if not faster.


----------



## ManniX-ITA

Owterspace said:


> I'm still using the stock power plan, is there a need to change it? What is wrong with it?


I don't even know where to start with...
Try them, run some benchmarks.
You should see improvements.
Better performances, lower power consumption.
SotTR, if you have it, internal benchmark with non GPU bound settings usually is the best to judge.


----------



## 681933

I love this thing already. Games I've benchmarked show at least a 20-30 average FPS uplift, but the lows is where it shines. Miles Morales 1440p High settings for example:

5900X:









5800X3D:









Wonder where the people who said this is not a big improvement over 5900X in gaming are right now. My 6900 XT is now also pinned at 100%.

Overall, it seems like my system is much snappier. Call it placebo, but I swear to god it's so snappy now. Is it the single CCD design? Never tried a single CCD Ryzen if I'm honest, always went slurping the Ryzen 9s. Think I'll stop doing that if they keep releasing max 8 core 3D cache CPUs~

Too early to celebrate though, I have yet to test -30 CO under ycruncher AVX2 overnight. Still, so far so good. Stable in games and increased my Cinebench multicore score from 14100 to around 14700. Not as large as the 15100+ uplifts I've seen for some people but it's good enough for me.

In games it's around 55-75C depending on the game, and under an all core load it goes to 81C and slowly climbs to about 85C. Ycruncher pins it straight to 90C lol, but it isn't thermal throttling. This is under a NH-U12A.


----------



## Fab7

Crylune said:


> Overall, it seems like my system is much snappier. Call it placebo, but I swear to god it's so snappy now. Is it the single CCD design?


Same feeling here ( 5900x --> 5800x3d )


----------



## N2Gaming

So how much of an improvement is the 5800x3d over the 5800x ?

Oh and while I’m at it, what do y’all think I could get for a practically brand new 3800x in package with stock unused hfs?


----------



## 681933

N2Gaming said:


> So how much of an improvement is the 5800x3d over the 5800x ?
> 
> Oh and while I’m at it, what do y’all think I could get for a practically brand new 3800x in package with stock unused hfs?












Even the 5900X stands no chance:


----------



## pastuch

Owterspace said:


> Okay
> 
> View attachment 2586463


Please share your AIDA memory latency? I'm 4x8 bdie also. C16


----------



## tryout1

Crylune said:


> Sadly, my X3D hates anything above 1800 FCLK, so I settled on this.
> 
> View attachment 2586490
> 
> 
> Was able to boot at -30 all core and run ycruncher / Cinebench several times, I'll leave ycruncher going overnight to see if it's truly stable.


try this settings, i used the 1:1 same on my 5900x, VDDG was both at "auto" at 1v which was too low for IOD ofc, CCD i can run lower now, don't forget about the 40mv/50mv VDDG to SOC offset


----------



## N2Gaming

I play mostly racing games like RF2, RR, ACC, PC2, GRID/DIRT titles, NFS titles etc. I only see the one racing game in those graphs.


----------



## 681933

tryout1 said:


> try this settings, i used the 1:1 same on my 5900x, VDDG was both at "auto" at 1v which was too low for IOD ofc, CCD i can run lower now, don't forget about the 40mv/50mv VDDG to SOC offset
> 
> View attachment 2586516


I have tried all sorts of combos, it just doesn't like FCLK 1900. But it's okay. Latency is about 58ns with my tuned 3600 MT/s CL14 timings, and I don't think a 100 MHz FCLK decrease would hurt this particular chip much.

I am over the moon with it, so it doesn't bother me :3 Now I just hope it won't die overnight during ycruncher, I really like this -30 CO I got. With my 5900X it would have already BSODed three times and taken a vacation to Neptune, but not with this chip.


----------



## 681933

N2Gaming said:


> I play mostly racing games like RF2, RR, ACC, PC2, GRID/DIRT titles, NFS titles etc. I only see the one racing game in those graphs.


Racing games do benefit from 3D V-cache... a ton. Here's ACC for example, which loves this CPU:










Source: Hardware Unboxed's 41 game 5800X vs 5800X3D benchmark video.


----------



## tryout1

Yeah well my 5900x was quite good it posted and worked up to fclk 2033 but with WHEAs ofc but it was stable but so far the 5800x3d absolutely is bonkers in terms how much fps i got in MMO's and min fps in other games, my whole rig seems to be super efficient now, my whole pc incl. 2x monitors just use about 310w now when playing WoW with 162fps cap, GPU just needs likes 82w


----------



## 681933

tryout1 said:


> Yeah well my 5900x was quite good it posted and worked up to fclk 2033 but with WHEAs ofc but it was stable but so far the 5800x3d absolutely is bonkers in terms how much fps i got in MMO's and min fps in other games, my whole rig seems to be super efficient now, my whole pc incl. 2x monitors just use about 310w now when playing WoW with 162fps cap, GPU just needs likes 82w


My whole system is snappier than it has ever been with the 5900X and games are super fast, I love it. Definitely worth the switch. My 5900X did 2000 FCLK but also had WHEAs.


----------



## kruger-druger

Hi guys. Sorry can't read the whole thread. Could you please suggest good ITX motherboard for 5800x3d with good price/perf level sticking to somewhat lower price. I mean looks like there is no need for x570 and beefy VRM, right?


----------



## tryout1

Crylune said:


> My whole system is snappier than it has ever been with the 5900X and games are super fast, I love it. Definitely worth the switch. My 5900X did 2000 FCLK but also had WHEAs.


I'm certain of one thing, you will enjoy your RX 7xxx alot if you get it even tho it probably get's bottlenecked about 20-30% from the CPU, but alas i personally just play at 162fps cap anyways atm till the 1440p 240hz OLED arrives.


----------



## 681933

tryout1 said:


> I'm certain of one thing, you will enjoy your RX 7xxx alot if you get it even tho it probably get's bottlenecked about 20-30% from the CPU, but alas i personally just play at 162fps cap anyways atm till the 1440p 240hz OLED arrives.


Radeon has always worked better when CPU limited. As in, more GPU usage leading to better framerates. See also NVIDIA driver overhead issue.

This is an example from someone on YouTube. Normally I don't like nor believe videos like this, especially since the card isn't out and embargo isn't lifted - but the guy had 4090 benchmarks well before the review embargoes were lifted and they all turned out to be accurate, so that's my basis of belief for this:










5950X. 4080 can't do 80% usage, XTX almost capped. This carries on in the rest of the games too.

The X3D will bottleneck it even less than the 5950X.


----------



## N2Gaming

Well I’m only using the 1080 Ti in my sig atm and had planned on getting a 3090 Ti due to the 4090 Ti is just too ridiculously priced and not reasonable for pc gaming imo. A,Avon had it for $329 when I was asking but jumped up to over $30 more now so . Maybe prices will go down again soon. I really should sell the 3800x before buying another cpu.

Edit forgot to mention 3x 32” 1440p monitors.


----------



## 681933

N2Gaming said:


> Well I’m only using the 1080 Ti in my sig atm and had planned on getting a 3090 Ti due to the 4090 Ti is just too ridiculously priced and not reasonable for pc gaming imo. A,Avon had it for $329 when I was asking but jumped up to over $30 more now so . Maybe prices will go down again soon. I really should sell the 3800x before buying another cpu.


Definitely go 5800X3D. Monster for racing games. Outclasses everything else.


----------



## N2Gaming

Ok next time it dips $329 or less i’ll Snag one with the uncharted code with 12 mo 0% interest.


----------



## Owterspace

pastuch said:


> Please share your AIDA memory latency? I'm 4x8 bdie also. C16
> View attachment 2586514



Sure thing










When running Win 10 L3 cache is around 12.6ns

Edit:

Might as well throw these in here too I reckon.


----------



## REKLISS

Lots of new Asus beta bioses with built-in CO support so we can do away with PBO2 Tuner. Shared here: ASUS ROG X570 Crosshair VIII Overclocking &amp... 

Just finished updating my CHDH8 board, still testing but everything working great so far.


----------



## N2Gaming

Count me in. Just saw it at $329 so I got it and an MSI gaming mouse pad. Should have it by Wednesday. Odd how prime is suppose to guaranty 2 day shipping but not on this order.


----------



## 681933

Overnight ycruncher done, no errors. Probably have a golden sample. Well, if you ignore the anemic IOD lol


----------



## AXi0M

Owterspace said:


> Sure thing
> 
> View attachment 2586536
> 
> 
> When running Win 10 L3 cache is around 12.6ns
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Might as well throw these in here too I reckon.
> 
> View attachment 2586547
> 
> 
> View attachment 2586548
> 
> 
> View attachment 2586550


Very nice! B-Die? if so you can probably get your TRC and TFAW much lower, also since you're running 4x8 SR your TWRWRSD/TRDRDSD can be set to 1


----------



## Verangry

pastuch said:


> Please share your AIDA memory latency?


L2 Prefetcher OFF


Spoiler















L2 Prefetcher ON


Spoiler
















Both settings are stable -> Karhu (10k) and Anta777 (20 cycles).

No WHEA's up to 2100MHz FCLK.
At FCLK higher than 2000 I get crashes while playing, while Karhu and Anta777 don't throw any error.


----------



## MrHoof

Verangry said:


> L2 Prefetcher OFF
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2586607
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L2 Prefetcher ON
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2586608
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both settings are stable -> Karhu (10k) and Anta777 (20 cycles).
> 
> No WHEA's up to 2100MHz FCLK.
> At FCLK higher than 2000 I get crashes while playing, while Karhu and Anta777 don't throw any error.


"Both settings are stable -> Karhu (10k) and Anta777 (20 cycles)." L2 prefetcher has no impact on memory stability tests. 
But can u prove that L2 off has a performance gain other then nice looking latency in Aida?


----------



## Verangry

Just good looking latency.
RAM OC is mostly "Just for fun" with the 3D.
I get arround 10% gain between 3200 and 4000 (in FPS - 5 Up to 10 AVG depending on the Game) with tweaked Timings.

So normaly I use the xmp profile. 300 FPS or 305 FPS I don't care because of GPU bottleneck (6900XT).

The best and at the same time also the worst CPU I've ever owned. (Worst because of tweaking)


----------



## MrHoof

Verangry said:


> Just good looking latency.
> RAM OC is mostly "Just for fun" with the 3D.
> I get arround 10% gain between 3200 and 4000 (in FPS - 5 Up to 10 AVG depending on the Game) with tweaked Timings.
> 
> So normaly I use the xmp profile. 300 FPS or 305 FPS I don't care because of GPU bottleneck (6900XT).
> 
> The best and at the same time also the worst CPU I've ever owned. (Worst because of tweaking)


Was just curiosity cause I never could see a improvement in anything else with L2 off but some other ppl reported otherwise mostly 5900x/5950x users.


----------



## Verangry

With any other CPU I could actually measure a slight performance gain with the L2 prefetcher turned off, but if you don't have the option available in bios, it'll be enabled by default.

The "monster cache" of the 3D won't benefit that much from RAM OC (I do it anyway, because I - and the CPU - can  )


----------



## zixsie

RAM OC with 5800x3d could be much less beneficial on some games, but still very beneficial on other games. Therefore it is not a bad idea to squeeze any performance from the CPU by overclocking the RAM. 
RAM OC has the most impact on 1% FPS which is very beneficial, so your AVG FPS might increase by 5-10, but 1% much more. Higher 1% FPS improves the overall smoothness and gameplay by a lot.


----------



## 681933

Should I keep my L2 prefetcher disabled? What about the L1 prefetcher? Never tinkered with these before so I dunno, but I did get a 7ns latency decrease in Aida64 by disabling both.

I also got a 200 point increase in Cinebench multi core.


----------



## pastuch

tryout1 said:


> I'm certain of one thing, you will enjoy your RX 7xxx alot if you get it even tho it probably get's bottlenecked about 20-30% from the CPU, but alas i personally just play at 162fps cap anyways atm till the 1440p 240hz OLED arrives.


My only concern about moving to the 1440p 240hz OLED and selling my 175hz OLED is that it only has peak 200 brightness. That's significantly lower than my Alienware and I run it at 90% brightness. Also it's WOLED and I'm really loving having a QD-OLED. I play competitive FPS with black bars on the Alienware (2560x1440 instead of 3440x1440).


----------



## gupsterg

Owterspace said:


> Sure thing
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2586536
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When running Win 10 L3 cache is around 12.6ns
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Might as well throw these in here too I reckon.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2586547
> 
> 
> View attachment 2586548
> 
> 
> View attachment 2586550


+rep, nice results  . So far been using 2x16GB Micron E with the 5800X3D, but planning to try 4x8GB Samsung B die that I have as spare set.

The 15340 in CB23 is that PBO CO OC? below is about highest I get with "daily OS", PBO OC was done in UEFI.



Spoiler

















Verangry said:


> L2 Prefetcher OFF
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2586607
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L2 Prefetcher ON
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2586608
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both settings are stable -> Karhu (10k) and Anta777 (20 cycles).
> 
> No WHEA's up to 2100MHz FCLK.
> At FCLK higher than 2000 I get crashes while playing, while Karhu and Anta777 don't throw any error.


+rep  , for share of benches and your experience with FCLK >2000MHz.


----------



## MrHoof

Crylune said:


> Should I keep my L2 prefetcher disabled? What about the L1 prefetcher? Never tinkered with these before so I dunno, but I did get a 7ns latency decrease in Aida64 by disabling both.
> 
> I also got a 200 point increase in Cinebench multi core.


Never saw any report of L1 off having any beneficial use case. For L2 test real work apps you use daily or game benchmarks.


----------



## Owterspace

gupsterg said:


> +rep, nice results  . So far been using 2x16GB Micron E with the 5800X3D, but planning to try 4x8GB Samsung B die that I have as spare set.
> 
> The 15340 in CB23 is that PBO CO OC? below is about highest I get with "daily OS", PBO OC was done in UEFI.


Thank you 

Everything I posted was with CO enabled through the bios 👌


----------



## Verangry

zixsie said:


> RAM OC has the most impact on 1% FPS which is very beneficial, so your AVG FPS might increase by 5-10, but 1% much more.


I know, made some benchmarks (PC Games Hardware shares settings and savegames they use for benchmarks), so I can compare their results with mine.

Here are 3 of them - Settings used like the ones in the Video - (BFV - benchmark scene - CP2077 - benchmark scene - and SotTR - benchmark scene)



Spoiler















So I've decided to stick with 3200 CL14 with tuned subs because my 6900XT is the limiting factor at 1440p or even 2160p.
When I get a newer 7900XTX or 4090 (depending on the performance of the upcoming 7900XTX), I'll switch back to 4000CL15 so I know I'll get the most performance out of my 3D (even if it's much less gain from RAM OC - compared to Intel).


----------



## 681933

Just clean installed Windows to ensure no hiccups. Loving this thing so far. Much better binned than my 5900X in terms of CO stability.


----------



## Imprezzion

Also finally put my 980 Pro in and clean installed together with the PBO BIOS update for the B550-A. It works fine with -30 all core from the BIOS. New Windows nice and snappy as well. RAM and IF is at 3933/1967 now with pretty loose timings and only 1.45v on the RAM. This profile ran 2 full 5h 1usmus tests and the CPU on the old BIOS with PBO2 Tuner did -30 just fine in corecycler and y-cruncher overnight so haven't retested.


----------



## 681933

After further experimentation it seems my 5800X3D isn't quite stable at -30 all core. Core 5 and 7 have some issues, so the lowest I managed to get them stable at was -18 and -23 respectively:










They didn't crash in normal usage, only in ycruncher, which is why I always recommend it for testing true CO stability.

The rest are all on -30 CO, though, so I'm happy! Still miles better than my 5900X managed to do, which was -15 all core... increase any of them above 15 and it would've died. -.-


----------



## zixsie

Crylune said:


> After further experimentation it seems my 5800X3D isn't quite stable at -30 all core. Core 5 and 7 have some issues, so the lowest I managed to get them stable at was -18 and -23 respectively:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't crash in normal usage, only in ycruncher, which is why I always recommend it for testing true CO stability.
> 
> The rest are all on -30 CO, though, so I'm happy! Still miles better than my 5900X managed to do, which was -15 all core... increase any of them above 15 and it would've died. -.-


Can you please share your y-cruncher configuration for testing, so i can give it a try on my end?


----------



## 681933

zixsie said:


> Can you please share your y-cruncher configuration for testing, so i can give it a try on my end?


Just using the default configuration. 11, 12, 13, 16, 17 and 18 enabled on all logical cores, 120 seconds per test, run forever. It does the job, catches a faulty core in about half an hour. If it does 10 iterations successfully, I'm confident it's stable.


----------



## Arthie

Owterspace said:


> Sure thing
> 
> View attachment 2586536
> 
> 
> When running Win 10 L3 cache is around 12.6ns
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Might as well throw these in here too I reckon.
> 
> View attachment 2586547
> 
> 
> View attachment 2586548
> 
> 
> View attachment 2586550


What did you do to get the 4,5ghz boost? Mine goes up to 4,45ghz and I’m -30 CO fully stable, temps fine aswell


----------



## rodrigobiz_6348

My 5800x3d is fully stable at - 30 all cores. But I am using only pbo2 and dinamic pbo2. Are you guys using hybrid oc? When I turn hybrid oc on the pc gets really slow. What settings are you guys using there?


----------



## Owterspace

Arthie said:


> What did you do to get the 4,5ghz boost? Mine goes up to 4,45ghz and I’m -30 CO fully stable, temps fine aswell


All of the cores are capable of hitting 4500, I just don't know why they don't. If I run Aida I could have 4-6 cores/threads hit it without batting an eye. Kinda weird but probably a self-protect feature so it doesn't get hot.

Edit:

Not sure if its just me, or a chipset, or just a built-in thing... but I have never been able to get it to do 100% EDC.


----------



## 681933

Mine also seems to only be capable of 4450 at any given time despite it reaching 4.55 on several cores in the Cinebench ST test.

Also @Owterspace how are you keeping your CPU that cool?


----------



## Owterspace

Crylune said:


> Also @Owterspace how are you keeping your CPU that cool?


Thermalright makes good coolers, Fractal makes good cases, and Canada makes good winters 

Edit:

With the furnace running to keep us from dieing, the basement is a lot warmer than it is in the summer..for now.. it will get colder soon.


----------



## 681933

Yeah, but my U12A shouldn't be too far off from that cooler either, and my case is well ventilated. Are you running those industrial fans at max speed lol?


----------



## Owterspace

Crylune said:


> Yeah, but my U12A shouldn't be too far off from that cooler either, and my case is well ventilated. Are you running those industrial fans at max speed lol?


I have A14s at the bottom of the case, but they aren't doing much. I have the 3K 120mm in the center position on the cooler, and I let it spool up. I was just trying to keep my ram cool as they are getting 1.6v right now.

Edit:

I have an FC140 and it is a better cooler than PA120, but I damaged the mounting system by overtightening. Oops. To be fair between 4 CPUs and 2 boards and testing different TIMs I had that cooler on and off probably closer to 100 times if not more. I would have ordered a kit for it but I was able to get a white FC140 on sale for 35 so I jumped on it, should be here shortly


----------



## 681933

_Post redacted because I celebrated way too early lol._


----------



## tabascosauz

Crylune said:


> Mine also seems to only be capable of 4450 at any given time despite it reaching 4.55 on several cores in the Cinebench ST test.
> 
> Also @Owterspace how are you keeping your CPU that cool?


You can only reach 4550 on about two cores under heavy ycruncher load, maybe three cores for less load. All core is intentionally limited to 4450, and if you're on Windows 11 you won't see 4550 that often in normal use (not ST benchmarks). Just how it is, the boost algo works differently for 5800X3D than all other Zen 3 CPUs, and unlike the other CPUs the all-core clock limit is strictly enforced


----------



## tabascosauz

Owterspace said:


> All of the cores are capable of hitting 4500, I just don't know why they don't. If I run Aida I could have 4-6 cores/threads hit it without batting an eye. Kinda weird but probably a self-protect feature so it doesn't get hot.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Not sure if its just me, or a chipset, or just a built-in thing... but I have never been able to get it to do 100% EDC.


You don't like changing power limits right? Might be hard to max out anything at 142W which is way more than it usually needs. Set something lower and you'll easily max out in BBP test


----------



## N2Gaming

So what benchmarking software are you guys using to show and prove improved performance for gaming over your 5800x/5900x/5950x CPU’s?


----------



## AXi0M

N2Gaming said:


> So what benchmarking software are you guys using to show and prove improved performance for gaming over your 5800x/5900x/5950x CPU’s?


video games...all of them


----------



## re23071998

does pbo2 tuner work with a320m board?


----------



## Tangenius

N2Gaming said:


> So what benchmarking software are you guys using to show and prove improved performance for gaming over your 5800x/5900x/5950x CPU’s?


CPU profiler is interesting for this imo.


----------



## Owterspace

tabascosauz said:


> You don't like changing power limits right?


I am used to increasing limits, not decreasing them 

I will try it out 👍🏻


----------



## Fab7

Owterspace said:


> View attachment 2586550


Awesome , but what did you do exactly for achieve this result ? 

CPU LLC ?


----------



## Owterspace

Fab7 said:


> Awesome , but what did you do exactly for achieve this result ?
> 
> CPU LLC ?


I just entered -30 in the CO tab, then save and exit 👍🏻


----------



## Tangenius

I saw some mentions of PLL in this thread. However I find it hard to find more information on how to find and change it. Anyone could explain a bit more about it please? Thanks.


----------



## RandomUser5000

Hello, has anyone tried this CPU on Win7?

I have a CH7 Hero motherboard with a 2700X installed, and i know i can swap the CPUs over, but i was wondering if there are any new lockouts/hurdles in place when adding a new CPU to the board with Win7.

I'm at the stage now that i need to get another SSD to install Win10 to play some other games, so i will do that soon. 

I do have a 5950X system with Win10, but only because there was no way for me to install Win7 on the CH8 extreme.


----------



## ManuDibango

Owterspace said:


> I just entered -30 in the CO tab, then save and exit 👍🏻


with outstanding RAM speed as well, and an outstanding sample given the max temp (or an outstanding cooler with a very good sample  )


----------



## 681933

tabascosauz said:


> You can only reach 4550 on about two cores under heavy ycruncher load, maybe three cores for less load. All core is intentionally limited to 4450, and if you're on Windows 11 you won't see 4550 that often in normal use (not ST benchmarks). Just how it is, the boost algo works differently for 5800X3D than all other Zen 3 CPUs, and unlike the other CPUs the all-core clock limit is strictly enforced


Understood, ty.

Alright, just came back from work and to my surprise, it's stable at my tuned D.O.C.P. timings with a bump to 3733 MT/s & 1867 FCLK. At least this if I can't have 3733 CL14 or 3800 CL16. 16000% coverage should be stable methinks...










Honestly for this CPU it should be about the same between all those memory configs in terms of performance. Memory isn't that huge of a factor due to its very large L3 cache, it is a special chip. Next I'll mess with the L2 prefetcher to see if disabling it brings me any actual benefit other than nice AIDA latency numbers.


----------



## Zarbain

Now that PBO is on most mobos newest bios update for 5800x3d. What are your guys settings? PPT TDP EDC , -30 curve ofc. scaling auto or x1? It seems auto is x2 but I am not certain.


----------



## 681933

Zarbain said:


> Now that PBO is on most mobos newest bios update for 5800x3d. What are your guys settings? PPT TDP EDC , -30 curve ofc. scaling auto or x1? It seems auto is x2 but I am not certain.


120 PPT, 85 TDC, 115 EDC, -30 curve on all cores except core 6 and 8 which are -18 and -23 respectively. Scalar is useless, so is increasing limits on this frequency-locked CPU (from my attempts, it isn't even possible to increase these limits - not that this CPU would ever even approach the stock limits, because again, frequency & voltage locked).

Best thing you can do is lower the limits as much as possible with a CO curve applied for maximum performance & efficiency. Lowering limits increased my Cinebench scores by 200. And I simply cannot believe that I am playing games at 50-70W on the CPU while beating a 300W+ 12900KS, even 7950X in some cases and coming close to 13900K. I love this CPU despite the memory troubles, which are now in the past.


----------



## tabascosauz

Crylune said:


> Understood, ty.
> 
> Alright, just came back from work and to my surprise, it's stable at my tuned D.O.C.P. timings with a bump to 3733 MT/s & 1867 FCLK. At least this if I can't have 3733 CL14 or 3800 CL16. 16000% coverage should be stable methinks...
> 
> Honestly for this CPU it should be about the same between all those memory configs in terms of performance. Memory isn't that huge of a factor due to its very large L3 cache, it is a special chip. Next I'll mess with the L2 prefetcher to see if disabling it brings me any actual benefit other than nice AIDA latency numbers.


3733 is a good place to be, I can't go any higher due to throwing automatic 07 code at 1900FCLK (MCLK works fine) so I'm at 3733CL14 too.

If you ever want to verify that cores can hit 4550 just fire up some corecycler or set only 1 core to run in ycruncher.

Just takes a bit of getting used to, since on other Zen 3 it's a very simple relationship of less load = more clock, while Fmax on 5800X3D doesn't always go to 4550 at idle


----------



## Owterspace

I bet they limit to 4550 _occasionally_ because at 4600-4700 it can draw the amps to hurt itself.


----------



## arkantos91

Is Asus going to release the newest bios for the X570 Hero to allow X3D users to set their COs there without using the .exe anymore?


----------



## Tangenius

Crylune said:


> 120 PPT, 85 TDC, 115 EDC, -30 curve on all cores except core 6 and 8 which are -18 and -23 respectively. Scalar is useless, so is increasing limits on this frequency-locked CPU (from my attempts, it isn't even possible to increase these limits - not that this CPU would ever even approach the stock limits, because again, frequency & voltage locked).
> 
> Best thing you can do is lower the limits as much as possible with a CO curve applied for maximum performance & efficiency. Lowering limits increased my Cinebench scores by 200. And I simply cannot believe that I am playing games at 50-70W on the CPU while beating a 300W+ 12900KS, even 7950X in some cases and coming close to 13900K. I love this CPU despite the memory troubles, which are now in the past.


I'm running 115 PPT, 70 TDC and 120 EDC CO everything -30 except 0 at -28 and 5, 6 at -27. All values can come close to 100% but never do. How about yours? Since it seems to behave different based on your values.


----------



## Geno_

arkantos91 said:


> Is Asus going to release the newest bios for the X570 Hero to allow X3D users to set their COs there without using the .exe anymore?


ASUS ROG X570 Crosshair VIII Overclocking &amp... 

Shamino's post above has beta bios' enabling that feature for all the Asus Crosshair VIII boards, I've been using the new Dark Hero bios with no issues for a couple days now.


----------



## arkantos91

Geno_ said:


> ASUS ROG X570 Crosshair VIII Overclocking &amp...
> 
> Shamino's post above has beta bios' enabling that feature for all the Asus Crosshair VIII boards, I've been using the new Dark Hero bios with no issues for a couple days now.


Does this guy work for Asus? Are there any stable versions?


----------



## gupsterg

arkantos91 said:


> Does this guy work for Asus? Are there any stable versions?


Yes on both counts. Google "Peter Shamino Tan Overclocker".

I've been on 4303 Beta with ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero on 5800X3D. PBO menu in UEFI now.


----------



## 681933

tabascosauz said:


> 3733 is a good place to be, I can't go any higher due to throwing automatic 07 code at 1900FCLK (MCLK works fine) so I'm at 3733CL14 too.
> 
> If you ever want to verify that cores can hit 4550 just fire up some corecycler or set only 1 core to run in ycruncher.
> 
> Just takes a bit of getting used to, since on other Zen 3 it's a very simple relationship of less load = more clock, while Fmax on 5800X3D doesn't always go to 4550 at idle


Indeed it does, ran all cores through it, they all hit 4.55 and even bumped the voltage to 1.3v which is interesting, only saw 1.269v until now.










Note: core 5 hit 4.55 shortly after posting this, that darn anemic rascal escaping my eye...


----------



## chrisz5z

Unfortunately the X570S Aero G doesn't have much granularity with VDDG, it doesn't split them up into IOD & CCD









And Zen Timings is showing both CCD/IOD @ ~1V when I've set it to 1.1V. CPU/SOC LLC is set on the most conservative setting, "Normal"








I just added 2 more sticks of 8GB Samsung B-die so my timings aren't as tight as they could be. Even though they are B-die I was surprised to see it boot @ 3733MT tCL14 on 4 sticks.

Also unfortunately, my 5800X3D is unstable above 1867 FCLK. At 1900 I don't get any WHEAs but my games crash. Regardless, the X3D is an amazing chip for gaming, fps increases across the board compared to the 5800X it replaced.


----------



## AXi0M

chrisz5z said:


> Unfortunately the X570S Aero G doesn't have much granularity with VDDG, it doesn't split them up into IOD & CCD
> View attachment 2587078
> 
> 
> And Zen Timings is showing both CCD/IOD @ ~1V when I've set it to 1.1V. CPU/SOC LLC is set on the most conservative setting, "Normal"
> View attachment 2587079
> 
> I just added 2 more sticks of 8GB Samsung B-die so my timings aren't as tight as they could be. Even though they are B-die I was surprised to see it boot @ 3733MT tCL14 on 4 sticks.
> 
> Also unfortunately, my 5800X3D is unstable above 1867 FCLK. At 1900 I don't get any WHEAs but my games crash. Regardless, the X3D is an amazing chip for gaming, fps increases across the board compared to the 5800X it replaced.


Most of your timings look auto, is that intentional? TRC of 35 is kinda tight at only 1.5v that might be the cause of instability


----------



## REKLISS

Owterspace said:


> I bet they limit to 4550 _occasionally_ because at 4600-4700 it can draw the amps to hurt itself.












I think I lucked out with a good bin. Im able to hit 4.68ghz pretty consistently when gaming after tuning, while still well under TDC EDC and CPP and at 1.263 vcore. Cuistom loop with bypass external rad in window during cold winter days helps though.


----------



## 681933

chrisz5z said:


> Also unfortunately, my 5800X3D is unstable above 1867 FCLK. At 1900 I don't get any WHEAs but my games crash. Regardless, the X3D is an amazing chip for gaming, fps increases across the board compared to the 5800X it replaced.


Yep, my experience also. Instead of crashes, I get instant reboots. Luckily, for the X3D, memory doesn't matter much.


----------



## 681933

REKLISS said:


> View attachment 2587085
> 
> 
> I think I lucked out with a good bin. Im able to hit 4.68ghz pretty consistently when gaming after tuning, while still well under TDC EDC and CPP and at 1.263 vcore. Cuistom loop with bypass external rad in window during cold winter days helps though.


I'd attempt a BCLK bump but the presence of a NVMe drive in my system pretty much prevents me from doing so.


----------



## REKLISS

Crylune said:


> I'd attempt a BCLK bump but the presence of a NVMe drive in my system pretty much prevents me from doing so.


BLCK bump to 102.9 worked fine on mine and Im running pcie4.0 and 3.0 nvme drives at their rated speeds.


----------



## 681933

REKLISS said:


> BLCK bump to 102.9 worked fine on mine and Im running pcie4.0 and 3.0 nvme drives at their rated speeds.


I've heard of NVMe drives corrupting at even 100.5. I'd rather not risk data loss and losing an expensive drive for an unnoticeable performance boost. Only thing the higher clock speed would do is satisfy my desire for higher numbers, that's all.


----------



## Imprezzion

I wouldn't really care about the corruption personally, I have incremental backups anyway, but with my ASUS B550-A any change in BCLK means the CPU locks to 35 or 36 multiplier. I have never gotten BCLK to work at all with the 5800X3D.


----------



## 681933

Imprezzion said:


> I wouldn't really care about the corruption personally, I have incremental backups anyway, but with my ASUS B550-A any change in BCLK means the CPU locks to 35 or 36 multiplier. I have never gotten BCLK to work at all with the 5800X3D.


I also have backups. But this can permanently cripple a drive.


----------



## loki_toki

REKLISS said:


> BLCK bump to 102.9 worked fine on mine and Im running pcie4.0 and 3.0 nvme drives at their rated speeds.


can you share what kind of nvme SSD do you have? i have a sn550 1tb that works perfectly fine for 102 bclk, but i my other SSD (xpg S40g) disappear with everything over 100 bclk :/


----------



## arkantos91

gupsterg said:


> Yes on both counts. Google "Peter Shamino Tan Overclocker".
> 
> I've been on 4303 Beta with ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero on 5800X3D. PBO menu in UEFI now.


Ok thanks, so I have to go in the pbo menu and set for all 8 COs my offset -30 like I do in the exe?


----------



## Imprezzion

arkantos91 said:


> Ok thanks, so I have to go in the pbo menu and set for all 8 COs my offset -30 like I do in the exe?


I just set all core CO -30 in the PBO menu. Works fine. There's a setting for all core or per core. If all cores run the same offset stable just set all core.


----------



## Owterspace

REKLISS said:


> Im able to hit 4.68ghz pretty consistently when gaming after tuning


How sustainable is that? Will it run say [email protected] all night like that, or does it just do it in game?


----------



## REKLISS

Crylune said:


> I also have backups. But this can permanently cripple a drive.


I am not too concerned about it because I am not running and intel system (which appear to be the most affected when adjusting BLCK) and I only use samsung drives which have insanely low failure rates. The architecture they build in is very resistant compared to most if not all other competitors. Check out the puget systems study on drive failure rates. Puget's reliability report shows nearly flawless record for Samsung SSDs Here is a quote from the article: _"In storage drives, Samsung SSDs show extremely low failure rates in both the shop and in the field, a trend that Puget says has been ongoing for years. Over 1,000 870 EVO and QVO drives were sold during the covered period, with no reported failures. The company notes that it has sold over 35,000 Samsung drives during its entire recorded history, yet fewer than 100 have failed."_


----------



## REKLISS

Owterspace said:


> How sustainable is that? Will it run say [email protected] all night like that, or does it just do it in game?


Still testing but so far it has ran ycruncher for two days without any failures (I am running -30 CO all core) tested lots of games and it boosts quite frequently during game play.


----------



## chrisz5z

AXi0M said:


> Most of your timings look auto, is that intentional? TRC of 35 is kinda tight at only 1.5v that might be the cause of instability


It's intentional as I just started working with the 4x8 B-die...so i haven't messed with all the timings just yet. 

tRC of 35 was perfectly stable with my 5800X, 1900 FCLK, 3800MT 2x8 B-die 1.5V. Tried to do the same config with my 5800X3D resulted in game crashes.


----------



## 681933

REKLISS said:


> I am not too concerned about it because I am not running and intel system (which appear to be the most affected when adjusting BLCK) and I only use samsung drives which have insanely low failure rates. The architecture they build in is very resistant compared to most if not all other competitors. Check out the puget systems study on drive failure rates. Puget's reliability report shows nearly flawless record for Samsung SSDs Here is a quote from the article: _"In storage drives, Samsung SSDs show extremely low failure rates in both the shop and in the field, a trend that Puget says has been ongoing for years. Over 1,000 870 EVO and QVO drives were sold during the covered period, with no reported failures. The company notes that it has sold over 35,000 Samsung drives during its entire recorded history, yet fewer than 100 have failed."_


Hey, not stopping you, if it works for you then more power to you. I just don't find it worthwhile.


----------



## ttnuagmada

For anyone curious:

Nov 23rd: 5800x3D dies
Nov 25th: RMA is approved by AMD and shipping label provided
Nov 28th: CPU is shipped (would have been sooner but the 25th was a Friday)
Dec 1st: CPU arrives at AMD, replacement approved a little over an hour later (this is based on when FedEX delivered the package and when they emailed me)
Dec 6th: Replacement CPU arrives.

Not too bad really. Figured this would be like a month long ordeal.


----------



## 1ah1

ttnuagmada said:


> For anyone curious:
> 
> Nov 23rd: 5800x3D dies
> Nov 25th: RMA is approved by AMD and shipping label provided
> Nov 28th: CPU is shipped (would have been sooner but the 25th was a Friday)
> Dec 1st: CPU arrives at AMD, replacement approved a little over an hour later (this is based on when FedEX delivered the package and when they emailed me)
> Dec 6th: Replacement CPU arrives.
> 
> Not too bad really. Figured this would be like a month long ordeal.


What was the issue if you dont mind?


----------



## 1ah1

I installed the 22H2 version (w11) and i found that my CPU start to boost to 4550 which was not the case in 21H2.
I am using the new AGESA version ComboV2PI 1208


----------



## ttnuagmada

1ah1 said:


> What was the issue if you dont mind?


It just straight up died on me. I come home from work, notice PC is off, try to turn it back on, but it only gets power for like a fraction of a second. Just enough time for the fans to kinda twitch. Obviously PSU was the first thought, but i have a spare (spares) and got the same result with one of them. Tried a different power switch with the same result. So i put in the 5800X that it replaced, and it booted up fine. Luckily I hadn't sold the 5800X yet or I definitely would have assumed mobo.

CPU ran fine for about 2 weeks. First time I've ever had a CPU die like that in my 25 years of PC building.


----------



## 681933

1ah1 said:


> I installed the 22H2 version (w11) and i found that my CPU start to boost to 4550 which was not the case in 21H2.
> I am using the new AGESA version ComboV2PI 1208


22H2 is overall a much better & snappier build of 11.


----------



## MrHoof

Ye the ryzen cpus IMC seems to fail more often then any other CPU I seen so far, most CPUs die with memory debug led on not CPU led.
I have seen so far 1 3600x myself diening this way tested it on client MB and my own.


----------



## 681933

Never had an IMC fail on my Ryzens personally, only have them be very anemic. My 3900X was the worst case. Could barely keep 3200 XMP...


----------



## ttnuagmada

MrHoof said:


> Ye the ryzen cpus IMC seems to fail more often then any other CPU I seen so far, most CPUs die with memory debug led on not CPU led.
> I have seen so far 1 3600x myself diening this way tested it on client MB and my own.


mine wouldn't stay powered on long enough for any type of LED code. It would literally try to power up for 1/10th of a second.


----------



## chrisz5z

Crylune said:


> Never had an IMC fail on my Ryzens personally, only have them be very anemic. My 3900X was the worst case. Could barely keep 3200 XMP...


PBO wasn't very impressive on the 3000 series. I got much better performance doing a static OC on my 3700X


----------



## Imprezzion

Just built the second system with a 5800X3D for a friend's brother. NZXT N7 B550 AGESA 1.2.0.7, 5800X3D, Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420, 2x8GB 3200 16-18-18 (yes it's bad but it's kept from his 8600k rig) and a ROG Strix 3070. Awesome "budget" system. It booted right up with XMP/DOCP 3200 and with a clean install of W11 22H2 it ran CB R23 around 14460 points with no PBO at all. Temps around 67c for all cores, 1.243v 4267Mhz effective. Even with the horrible RAM that is quite good performance seeing as how i barely crack 15000 with 3933C16 DR and -30 CO locked to 4450. 

3rd system for a friend coming up. Crosshair VIII Hero (not dark), 5800X3D, 4x16GB Trident-Z RGB 3600C14 and a 3090 FTW3 Ultra which will go under full custom water in a O11D XL with a distro plate, EK Momentum full cover block and hardline tubing hehe. 

As you may have noticed i'm a huge fan of the 5800X3D...


----------



## Owterspace

Imprezzion said:


> As you may have noticed i'm a huge fan of the 5800X3D...


Its a good little CPU  

Its pretty easy too cool though, not sure it needs a custom loop unless the GPU is involved


----------



## 681933

chrisz5z said:


> PBO wasn't very impressive on the 3000 series. I got much better performance doing a static OC on my 3700X


PBO is only really effective on Zen 3 and if you increase limits gradually, not just let the CPU do what it wants.


----------



## 681933

Owterspace said:


> Its pretty easy too cool though, not sure it needs a custom loop unless the GPU is involved


My overclocked 6900 XT is definitely involved, dumping 300W of heat into the case. Very surprised at how my U12A is handling the 5800X3D. Worth the 2.75 GHz on that card...


----------



## N2Gaming

My 5800x runs with just PBO/XMP and about -.50v or -.05v don’t remember the value or what was offset. Pio helped me with that and this 5800x scores 166xx with PBO. CPU speed of 4850


----------



## dansi

ttnuagmada said:


> For anyone curious:
> 
> Nov 23rd: 5800x3D dies
> Nov 25th: RMA is approved by AMD and shipping label provided
> Nov 28th: CPU is shipped (would have been sooner but the 25th was a Friday)
> Dec 1st: CPU arrives at AMD, replacement approved a little over an hour later (this is based on when FedEX delivered the package and when they emailed me)
> Dec 6th: Replacement CPU arrives.
> 
> Not too bad really. Figured this would be like a month long ordeal.


How is the overclock on the new batches? 

4000 RAMIF possible?

4.55Ghz all core sustained possible?

Thinking of picking one until Zen4-3D comes out, and then moving it to my arcade emulation rig.


----------



## Imprezzion

Owterspace said:


> Its a good little CPU
> 
> Its pretty easy too cool though, not sure it needs a custom loop unless the GPU is involved


Of course. My soft loop has my 3090 included with a Alphacool GPX-N block and the other hardline build is a EVGA FTW3 Ultra with an official EVGA block.


----------



## Taraquin

Anyone tried the universalamdformbrowser? It seems to unlock CO at bios level for those interested: [TOOL] [Mirror Added]UniversalAMDFormBrowser


----------



## ttnuagmada

dansi said:


> How is the overclock on the new batches?
> 
> 4000 RAMIF possible?
> 
> 4.55Ghz all core sustained possible?
> 
> Thinking of picking one until Zen4-3D comes out, and then moving it to my arcade emulation rig.


I only played with it for about 5 minutes, but loading the ram OC I had on the previous 5800x3D wouldn't even post (3733 CL16). I'll give it another go tonight, but that's not a good sign.


----------



## BHS1975

Crylune said:


> 120 PPT, 85 TDC, 115 EDC, -30 curve on all cores except core 6 and 8 which are -18 and -23 respectively. Scalar is useless, so is increasing limits on this frequency-locked CPU (from my attempts, it isn't even possible to increase these limits - not that this CPU would ever even approach the stock limits, because again, frequency & voltage locked).
> 
> Best thing you can do is lower the limits as much as possible with a CO curve applied for maximum performance & efficiency. Lowering limits increased my Cinebench scores by 200. And I simply cannot believe that I am playing games at 50-70W on the CPU while beating a 300W+ 12900KS, even 7950X in some cases and coming close to 13900K. I love this CPU despite the memory troubles, which are now in the past.


I've noticed scalar 0 lowers temps and volts and doesn't make any difference in games and about 600 points lower in CB23 which is about 14500 on mine.


----------



## zixsie

Since my ram is no longer fully stable at 3400mhz, i am running it at stock XMP 3200 mhz. It is a 2x16GB 3200mhz CL 16 Dual Rank.
In terms of only gaming purpose and performance, is it worth upgrading it to 3600 or 3800mhz. I am just wondering how much performance during gaming i could squeeze more from the CPU.
I am playing multiplayer FPS which are very heavy on CPU. (Squad, Hell Let Loose, BTW)


----------



## Owterspace

I don't think it matters how new the CPU is for it to be able to do 2K 1:1. My oldest Zen 3 part is a 5600X that I bought at launch, it can do 2K 1:1 stable with 2 sticks, and its been to 2133. My 5900X that I bought a few months later wont do more than 1900 1:1 stable with 2 or 4 sticks, my X3D can do 1933 1:1 with 2 or 4 sticks, but cant get anything higher to stick.


----------



## 681933

Owterspace said:


> I don't think it matters how new the CPU is for it to be able to do 2K 1:1. My oldest Zen 3 part is a 5600X that I bought at launch, it can do 2K 1:1 stable with 2 sticks, and its been to 2133. My 5900X that I bought a few months later wont do more than 1900 1:1 stable with 2 or 4 sticks, my X3D can do 1933 1:1 with 2 or 4 sticks, but cant get anything higher to stick.


Yep, IMC is always hit or miss.


----------



## Blameless

Crylune said:


> Yep, IMC is always hit or miss.


Strictly speaking, it's not the IMC that's responsible for FCLK issues.

None of my Matiesse, Vermeer, or Vermeer-X parts are completely stable past 1900 FCLK, irrespective of UCLK or MCLK.


----------



## gupsterg

dansi said:


> How is the overclock on the new batches?
> 
> 4000 RAMIF possible?
> 
> 4.55Ghz all core sustained possible?
> 
> Thinking of picking one until Zen4-3D comes out, and then moving it to my arcade emulation rig.


I've got week 24, 29, 45.

24, 3800/1900 stable stock voltages, will POST upto 3933/1933, not tried higher.

29, 3733/1866 stable stock voltages, won't POST any higher.

45, 3733/1866 stable stock voltages, won't POST 3800/1900, but POST 3866/1866, not tried other frequencies.

Custom WC setup, ASUS ROG Crosshair VII Dark Hero, tried Micron E and Samsung B with above.

Week 29 has best core organisation for "core performance" ie CPPC/Fused rating. So if OS/App unaware of which are best cores and say goes for core 0/first few cores (like some apps I've seen) it performs somewhat better. Week 24 has reasonable "core performance" order, week 45 is worse ordering I've seen. Owned several 2700X, 3600, 3700X, 3900X, 5900X.

But week 45 is about 200 points faster in CB23 multi with CO tweak vs other two. Y Cruncher stress test it's also slightly fast, about 50mhz all cores. Realbench stress test same as others for all cores average MHz. 3DM bench 45 doesn't best the others, so it only edges ahead in some things. But can edge behind other test, for example single core CPU-Z bench it can get lower score at times (it goes for core 0), it also gives 5/10 points on average less in CB23 single than 24.

All in all it's a tight difference. It was the same as I saw when bought 3x 3900X. At the time I picked to keep CPU with highest MEMCLK, as CPU clocks/OC'ability on core was much the sameness, sorta what I'm seeing again.



Spoiler: BR 22xx PGS (week 24 or 29 or 45)




















Right click open new tab below image, hosted on imgur as forum not showing full res.


----------



## OCmember

@ttnuagmada did you get the production date on your new one? I have yet to crack open the box on my other 5800X3D which is a 2214PGS


----------



## icehotshot

All this fclk talk I might as well chime in. 

My 5800x3d has got to have one of the worst memory controllers ever. Max it can do is 1500 fclk without hardware errors in windows. My 5800x non 3d and 3900x could both do 1900+ fclk with 4 dimms without issue.

I've tried 3 different bios, every voltage available, tried with 1/2/4 sticks, 1.2-1.6v for the memory, extremely loose timings (cl22), ln2 mode on/off, SOC OC mode on/off.

Anything I am missing?


----------



## 681933

icehotshot said:


> All this fclk talk I might as well chime in.
> 
> My 5800x3d has got to have one of the worst memory controllers ever. Max it can do is 1500 fclk without hardware errors in windows. My 5800x non 3d and 3900x could both do 1900+ fclk with 4 dimms without issue.
> 
> I've tried 3 different bios, every voltage available, tried with 1/2/4 sticks, 1.2-1.6v for the memory, extremely loose timings (cl22), ln2 mode on/off, SOC OC mode on/off.
> 
> Anything I am missing?


1500.. ouch. It does just sound like a bad IMC, if you've already fed VDDG IOD and SoC lots of voltage and it still doesn't take it. Sorry to hear.


----------



## frankie90

icehotshot said:


> All this fclk talk I might as well chime in.
> 
> My 5800x3d has got to have one of the worst memory controllers ever. Max it can do is 1500 fclk without hardware errors in windows. My 5800x non 3d and 3900x could both do 1900+ fclk with 4 dimms without issue.
> 
> I've tried 3 different bios, every voltage available, tried with 1/2/4 sticks, 1.2-1.6v for the memory, extremely loose timings (cl22), ln2 mode on/off, SOC OC mode on/off.
> 
> Anything I am missing?


Wouldn’t this be technically RMA-able, since they promise up to 1600/3200?


----------



## icehotshot

Crylune said:


> 1500.. ouch. It does just sound like a bad IMC, if you've already fed VDDG IOD and SoC lots of voltage and it still doesn't take it. Sorry to hear.


Yeah I've tried with all those maxed out as far as I can tell. 1.25v SOC 1150mv VDDG. I guess I can try 1200mv VDDG? haha



frankie90 said:


> Wouldn’t this be technically RMA-able, since they promise up to 1600/3200?


Yes I think so. And I did apply for RMA but they require you to jump through hoops for it.

My cpu is covered in liquid metal and you need a picture of it in the socket with the serial number visible.....why can't they verify the serial number when they get it? So I'd need to take it out of the socket, clean it off and put it back in....don't really have the desire to take apart my loop for that.

In the end these vcache cpus don't really benefit much between a few hundred mhz on the fclk/mem, at least not as much as a non x cpu. So I'm still getting more performance than my 5800x non 3d but yeah it is a little frustrating. So I figured it's not worth the hassle and I don't have a backup cpu either as it is already sold and gone.


----------



## Imprezzion

If I compare the CPU performance of mine at -30 CO and 3933 16-16-16 vs my mates brothers one with stock 0 CO and 3200 16-18-18 it's like 600 points in R23 at best. So it seems RAM makes very little difference for CPU benches. I can't compare games directly as he has a 3070 and I have a 3090 but k. I'd say it's very minimal.


----------



## ttnuagmada

dansi said:


> How is the overclock on the new batches?
> 
> 4000 RAMIF possible?
> 
> 4.55Ghz all core sustained possible?
> 
> Thinking of picking one until Zen4-3D comes out, and then moving it to my arcade emulation rig.


some quick testing:

This one boots at 1900 (last one didn't), and doesnt give any WHEA's while testing ram

Also booted at 2000, i need to play with voltages more, but I only got 1 whea after running RAM test for a few min, so that makes me think i might can get it stable with the right voltage. My last one booted at 2000, but would throw a ton of WHEA's no matter what I did (anything that would boot over 1866 did this actually)

I'll dive into it more this weekend.


----------



## 681933

Not to count my blessings before they hatch but... have I done it? Finally hit CL14 at 3733 MT/s?










I suppose I'll find out in the morning... need at least 10000% to be sure.

But if it is stable... then tRCDRD was the real pest all along. Had it at 14 and it errored out on every single test in TM5. Increased it to 16 and voila, no more errors.


----------



## chrisz5z

Able to get 4.448-4.449Ghz in all core workloads. CO = -30 all cores. Anyway to get this higher without BCLK?









Been tuning my 4x8 Patriot Viper Steel B-die...love this RAM
















Surprisingly this config actually boots into Windows with GDM off, but with any stress it becomes unstable & reboots the PC...haha oh well


----------



## 681933

chrisz5z said:


> Anyway to get this higher without BCLK?


Nope.


----------



## loki_toki

*Does anyone know which models/brand of nvme ssd are actually capable of 102+ bclk without issues? i know only the wd sn550 and the samsung 980 pro as mentioned by someone here on this thread, any other models? especially maybe some pcie 4.0 ones? that would be really helpful to anyone going for bclk oc as well!*


----------



## StevieRay2

My week 22 is stable 1867, won't post at 1900, will post at 1933 and 2000 but tons of WHEA errors no matter my VDDP CCD etc


----------



## AXi0M

StevieRay2 said:


> My week 22 is stable 1867, won't post at 1900, will post at 1933 and 2000 but tons of WHEA errors no matter my VDDP CCD etc


The early ones seem best at FCLK, mine is 2207 and only need 1.1v SOC for 1933 fclk


----------



## tabascosauz

icehotshot said:


> Yeah I've tried with all those maxed out as far as I can tell. 1.25v SOC 1150mv VDDG. I guess I can try 1200mv VDDG? haha
> 
> 
> Yes I think so. And I did apply for RMA but they require you to jump through hoops for it.
> 
> My cpu is covered in liquid metal and you need a picture of it in the socket with the serial number visible.....why can't they verify the serial number when they get it? So I'd need to take it out of the socket, clean it off and put it back in....don't really have the desire to take apart my loop for that.
> 
> In the end these vcache cpus don't really benefit much between a few hundred mhz on the fclk/mem, at least not as much as a non x cpu. So I'm still getting more performance than my 5800x non 3d but yeah it is a little frustrating. So I figured it's not worth the hassle and I don't have a backup cpu either as it is already sold and gone.


They will always try you with the same canned response "please try troubleshooting x". It's a bullshit AMD policy. If you just swamp them with details of your own testing and show that it's clearly a dud, chances are they might just not bother you with that. Or say that you've done everything on the list and nothing changed. If you persist, the next response should be that your RMA# has been opened and you should proceed to send your CPU in.

When I was trying to RMA my dud 3700X I fell for their trick and was discouraged from RMAing. With my 5700G I no longer gave a **** about their policies, and the rep skipped all that stuff after seeing the list of stuff I had already tested.


----------



## jootn2kx

AXi0M said:


> The early ones seem best at FCLK, mine is 2207 and only need 1.1v SOC for 1933 fclk


I think getting higher FCLK overclock has more to do with your motherboard chipset and not the CPU itself.
Most can do higher FCLK in theory I think


----------



## Imprezzion

Just my 2c, I don't know my chips production date unless I can find it on the box somewhere in the serial numbers or batch# but I run a fairly cheap mid range ASUS B550-A board (latest bios) and my 5800X3D can do 1900 just fine WHEA free on lower then stock voltages (1.087 vSOC, 0.980 IOD 0.960 CCD 0.820 VDDP) and does 1967 at 1.150 vSOC, 1.060 IOD 1.020 CCD 0.880 VDDP WHEA free. It can boot up to 2100 but isn't stable. Highest I've gotten WHEA free and pass all tests is 2000 at 1.240 vSOC 1.15 IOD 1.12 CCD 0.940 VDDP and 1.86 VDD1.8 but this is too much of a voltage increase over 1967 to make sense 24/7 and my RAM doesn't scale timing wise at 4000 at all. It hates 4000. It's most happy at 3933 or 4266.


----------



## 681933

Sigh, just woke up to errors of course. Tired of this. Gonna revert back to 3600 MT/s CL16 XMP with tuned subtimings and call it a day.


----------



## Nd4spdvn

loki_toki said:


> Does anyone know which models/brand of nvme ssd are actually capable of 102+ bclk without issues? i know only the wd sn550 and the samsung 980 pro as mentioned by someone here on this thread, any other models? especially maybe some pcie 4.0 ones? that would be really helpful to anyone going for bclk oc as well!


Hi, last year I bought a Corsair MP600 2TB PCIE 4.0x4 (5GB/s reads) which was pretty much about the only one PCIE 4 SSD available in the market at the time. It seems to work just fine at 102 bus in my 5800X3D and Suprim X 4090 system. I know Corsair eventually launched a cheaper version of the MP600 (coexisting with the original) with reduced reliability and that might not work good with higher Bus clocks.


----------



## sendap

Crylune said:


> Sigh, just woke up to errors of course. Tired of this. Gonna revert back to 3600 MT/s CL16 XMP with tuned subtimings and call it a day.


I have B-Die which ran with 3800C15 on my non 3D Ryzen. After benchmarking it for its usecase I now have the RAM set to 3200C13. Less than 1% difference in SotTR and 3200C13 was even a tiny bit better in PUBG. I can post CapFrameX Graphs if you like. with 3200Mt/s you also save about 10W of power and you can go down with VSoC, so more power budget for boosting.
I have saved the 3800C15 on a USB Stick to compare for other games i will play in the future. If they like more bandwith I can easily switch back.


----------



## Bamidrol

sendap said:


> I have B-Die which ran with 3800C15 on my non 3D Ryzen. After benchmarking it for its usecase I now have the RAM set to 3200C13. Less than 1% difference in SotTR and 3200C13 was even a tiny bit better in PUBG. I can post CapFrameX Graphs if you like. with 3200Mt/s you also save about 10W of power and you can go down with VSoC, so more power budget for boosting.
> I have saved the 3800C15 on a USB Stick to compare for other games i will play in the future. If they like more bandwith I can easily switch back.


Would love to see your PUBG results. Its my main game and im always looking for ways to polish the performance. Running 3600c14 atm


----------



## Imprezzion

Crylune said:


> Sigh, just woke up to errors of course. Tired of this. Gonna revert back to 3600 MT/s CL16 XMP with tuned subtimings and call it a day.


Is 3800 the max you can run 1:1? I grew tired of all the errors overnight that usually show up 3 hours into the test as well so I just used 3600C16 XMP and set frequency to 3933 1:1 and DRAM Voltage to 1.450v and it passed fine. Then tweaked a bunch of subtimings and kept it there. That worked miracles for stability lol. I mean, you can probably get away with just setting 3800 1:1 on XMP timings and like, 1.40v and run stable but still have the higher bandwidth from 3800.


----------



## 681933

Imprezzion said:


> Is 3800 the max you can run 1:1? I grew tired of all the errors overnight that usually show up 3 hours into the test as well so I just used 3600C16 XMP and set frequency to 3933 1:1 and DRAM Voltage to 1.450v and it passed fine. Then tweaked a bunch of subtimings and kept it there. That worked miracles for stability lol. I mean, you can probably get away with just setting 3800 1:1 on XMP timings and like, 1.40v and run stable but still have the higher bandwidth from 3800.


I can't do 3800 1:1 with this CPU. It reboots instantly upon desktop or doesn't POST. I was able to with my 5900X, but with this one, only 3733. But it errors out after a while in TM5. Sticks probably getting too hot. The difficulty of having 4 sticks right here. And no, I don't want active memory cooling, won't like the aesthetics nor noise implications.



sendap said:


> I have B-Die which ran with 3800C15 on my non 3D Ryzen. After benchmarking it for its usecase I now have the RAM set to 3200C13. Less than 1% difference in SotTR and 3200C13 was even a tiny bit better in PUBG. I can post CapFrameX Graphs if you like. with 3200Mt/s you also save about 10W of power and you can go down with VSoC, so more power budget for boosting.
> I have saved the 3800C15 on a USB Stick to compare for other games i will play in the future. If they like more bandwith I can easily switch back.


I know memory OC is especially futile on the 5800X3D due to the large cache, I was just chasing a good OC to feel good about it I suppose. I'm past that now. This CPU performs the same at 3200 CL14 and 3800 CL16, so what's the point. Tuned sub-timings a bit to hopefully get slightly better 0.1% and 1% lows.

The 7900 XTX I'm getting in a week will give me much higher performance gains than fiddling with memory ever will.


----------



## loki_toki

Nd4spdvn said:


> Hi, last year I bought a Corsair MP600 2TB PCIE 4.0x4 (5GB/s reads) which was pretty much about the only one PCIE 4 SSD available in the market at the time. It seems to work just fine at 102 bus in my 5800X3D and Suprim X 4090 system. I know Corsair eventually launched a cheaper version of the MP600 (coexisting with the original) with reduced reliability and that might not work good with higher Bus clocks.


thanks a lot man!


----------



## sendap

Crylune said:


> I was just chasing a good OC to feel good about it I suppose. I'm past that now


same here  It is fun to see how far you can push it.


----------



## sendap

Bamidrol said:


> Would love to see your PUBG results.


i just tested with the settings I play Pubg. 1440p and 141FPS cap. Did a run with uncapped FPS as well. GPU is a 3080 10G undervolted.


----------



## bmg1001

I am extremely close to being able to achieve 2000Mhz FCLK on my 5800X3D but nothing I try seems to fully stabilize it. The most stable I've gotten so far was at 1.16v VSOC, 0.945v CCD, 1.13v IOD, and 1.12v VDDP. Higher and lower voltages made WHEA 20 errors pop up more, and after lots and lots of playing with voltages this was the best I got. Any tips? Also, I heard about changing the CPU PLL voltage from 1.8 to around 1.95/2.0 but I can't seem to find something explicitly labelled "PLL" in my BIOS on my ASUS B550-F Strix. Also I'm kind of worried about degradation but I know I can get 2000 FCLK stable if I just keep scratching at it. If it matters, I am using Hynix CJR 2x16 DR.


----------



## Imprezzion

bmg1001 said:


> I am extremely close to being able to achieve 2000Mhz FCLK on my 5800X3D but nothing I try seems to fully stabilize it. The most stable I've gotten so far was at 1.16v VSOC, 0.945v CCD, 1.13v IOD, and 1.12v VDDP. Higher and lower voltages made WHEA 20 errors pop up more, and after lots and lots of playing with voltages this was the best I got. Any tips? Also, I heard about changing the CPU PLL voltage from 1.8 to around 1.95/2.0 but I can't seem to find something explicitly labelled "PLL" in my BIOS on my ASUS B550-F Strix. Also I'm kind of worried about degradation but I know I can get 2000 FCLK stable if I just keep scratching at it. If it matters, I am using Hynix CJR 2x16 DR.


I think ASUS calls it CPU 1.80v or something. I'm not at home right now so can't check but that should be it.


----------



## 681933

So... for anyone contemplating disabling the L2 prefetcher, *don't. *Aside from pretty looking AIDA latency numbers, here's what it did to my system:

L2 prefetcher enabled:


























And with it disabled:


























As you can see, *massive* performance hits to memory and slight performance hit to CPU.

It should probably go without saying but *keep it enabled* unless you want to show off your unrealistic AIDA latencies or get an extra 200 points in CB R23, otherwise it's not worth it.

My ZenTimings for anyone curious (I've settled on this optimized 3600 CL14 configuration and will run TestMem5 overnight to make sure it's stable - tRFC has to be that "high" because my sticks get hot):


----------



## sendap

bmg1001 said:


> Any tips?


don't bother. No benefit on X3D


----------



## 681933

sendap said:


> don't bother. No benefit on X3D


I agree, honestly. Just remain at a nice 3600 / 1800 or 3800 / 1900, and tune the timings as much as you can because they still improve 0.1% and 1% lows in some scenarios.

I, for one, welcome the fact that X3D CPUs have such a behemoth cache that RAM barely matters anymore. RAM OC is the biggest headache I've ever had tuning any part of my system. The fact that this CPU delivers its full performance regardless if you're at 3200 MT/s or 3800 MT/s is incredible, and this was a smart move by AMD, as people on older chipsets & CPUs would probably have 3000 - 3200 MT/s memory and thereabouts, and yet they still receive the full performance of this CPU.


----------



## Verangry

@Crylune 

Passmark results showing expected values.
No Prefetching (unbuffered) resulting in lower points.

Here are mine:



Spoiler: Prefetcher ON

















Spoiler:  Prefetcher OFF

















Spoiler: Comparison















It's the first "Benchmark Tool" that can show up the differences between prefetcher on and off (at least for me).

Thats the reason I keep it always on, only turn it off to flex in "Aida latency benchmark" (by the way, the benchmark is also meaningles for me).


----------



## N2Gaming

Amazon updated estimated delivery of the 3DX to this coming Saturday.

What benchmarks should I perform now with the 5800x to compare to the 5800x?


----------



## bmg1001

sendap said:


> don't bother. No benefit on X3D


Oh trust me, I know. I already managed to achieve a rock-solid 3800/1900 with good timings for my type of RAM which I am very happy about, but the itch and drive to see how far I can push this chip takes over, no matter how illogical it is considering the very minimal gains.

That being said, very early tests of using PLL 1.9 seems to show very good potential so far. OCCT's memory test, which usually came back with WHEA 20 errors in the first 2 minutes now passes a whole hour with no errors. Gonna do some more tests later but this is a great start so far. vSOC 1.17, VDDP 1.12, IOD 1.13, CCD 1.0


----------



## 681933

N2Gaming said:


> What benchmarks should I perform now with the 5800x to compare to the 5800x?


Benchmark all the games you play, it's that simple. When it arrives, run the benchmark again and compare numbers. You'll see massive gains in racing sims.

I used Afterburner's built-in benchmark tool to get numbers on my 5900X and once I installed my 5800X3D ran the tool again on all games. Saw great improvements across the board but especially in 0.1 and 1% lows.


----------



## tabascosauz

bmg1001 said:


> I am extremely close to being able to achieve 2000Mhz FCLK on my 5800X3D but nothing I try seems to fully stabilize it. The most stable I've gotten so far was at 1.16v VSOC, 0.945v CCD, 1.13v IOD, and 1.12v VDDP. Higher and lower voltages made WHEA 20 errors pop up more, and after lots and lots of playing with voltages this was the best I got. Any tips? Also, I heard about changing the CPU PLL voltage from 1.8 to around 1.95/2.0 but I can't seem to find something explicitly labelled "PLL" in my BIOS on my ASUS B550-F Strix. Also I'm kind of worried about degradation but I know I can get 2000 FCLK stable if I just keep scratching at it. If it matters, I am using Hynix CJR 2x16 DR.





Imprezzion said:


> I think ASUS calls it CPU 1.80v or something. I'm not at home right now so can't check but that should be it.


"1.8V PLL" here










I know Strix hides some options on purpose which is infuriating. If it's not there (not sure where on Strix, it's all under the ROG Tweakers Paradise folder on mine), you can try a mod BIOS to unhide that stuff [Sammelthread] - ASUS B550 Strix/TUF/Prime Series Sammel- und Laberthread | Hardwareluxx


----------



## bmg1001

tabascosauz said:


> "1.8V PLL" here
> 
> 
> I know Strix hides some options on purpose which is infuriating. If it's not there (not sure where on Strix, it's all under the ROG Tweakers Paradise folder on mine), you can try a mod BIOS to unhide that stuff [Sammelthread] - ASUS B550 Strix/TUF/Prime Series Sammel- und Laberthread | Hardwareluxx


Ah thanks for the link, I'll look into it. On the Strix the option was called "CPU 1.80 Voltage." I wonder why they didn't keep the naming schemes of these options consistent across different motherboards. Feels like it would be more work to make it all different but IDK.


----------



## N2Gaming

Crylune said:


> Benchmark all the games you play, it's that simple. When it arrives, run the benchmark again and compare numbers. You'll see massive gains in racing sims.
> 
> I used Afterburner's built-in benchmark tool to get numbers on my 5900X and once I installed my 5800X3D ran the tool again on all games. Saw great improvements across the board but especially in 0.1 and 1% lows.


Being that I only have the 1080 Ti atm I’m not so sure the GPU won’t be bottlenecking the CPU which is why I asked about benchmarking. What Nvidia GPU running @ 7680x1440 is a good match to this 5800x3d without the GPU being too fast or slow for the cpu? I was thinking 3090 Ti but have not done any research yet. Just getting CPU now while I still can. Then the plan is to get the GPU later when prices get better and my wallet recovers a little bit from the holidays.


----------



## Tangenius

N2Gaming said:


> Being that I only have the 1080 Ti atm I’m not so sure the GPU won’t be bottlenecking the CPU which is why I asked about benchmarking. What Nvidia GPU running @ 7680x1440 is a good match to this 5800x3d without the GPU being too fast or slow for the cpu? I was thinking 3090 Ti but have not done any research yet. Just getting CPU now while I still can. Then the plan is to get the GPU later when prices get better and my wallet recovers a little bit from the holidays.


I´m in a quite similar situation owning a 1080ti. I had a 5600x and the difference was huge moving to the x3d. Even games with similar average fps where you´re GPU bottlenecked are noticeably smoother because you get more consistent frametimes


----------



## AXi0M

Tangenius said:


> I´m in a quite similar situation owning a 1080ti. I had a 5600x and the difference was huge moving to the x3d. Even games with similar average fps where you´re GPU bottlenecked are noticeably smoother because you get more consistent frametimes


I also had 1080Ti when i first got the X3D from a 3600. And games like Escape from Tarkov went from 60-70% gpu usage and stuttering to 99% gpu usage and smooth. It completely fixed the games terrible optimization.


----------



## N2Gaming

I’m currently at like 100% GPU and 20 to 40% CPU depending on game with the 5800x.


----------



## N2Gaming

Is there a thread that explains all the different tuning and fine tuning options that work best with these 3DX cpu’s? Has all that been discussed in this thread in one post or just spread out amongst multiple posts from multiple members in this 3DX owners thread?

Looking for a complete list that brakes down all the tuning options and explains what each option is and how to use it efficiently.

Asseto Corsa Competizione and Project Cars 2 do not have benchmarking options built in. Did not try RFactor 2 yet, it’s too slow to load “Rollie eyes”. Only game I was able to run a benchmark on is GRID 2019 but that is not a good one as that game does not max either gpu or cpu with both running @ or less than 80%


----------



## Tangenius

I read the whole thread and except for bclk overclocking it seems to be like any other zen 3 chip. Get Fclock 1:1 with ram and tighten timings. Tune power limits and test if it provides gains. Apply negative CO offset as low and possible and test with corecycler. Apart from that not really something important/beneficial to note. There was some discussion if turning off preferred cores was beneficial so maybe test that one for yourself. 


Btw if you're always close to 100% gpu usage already you must play at very high graphical settings I assume or your 5800x is really good?


----------



## gupsterg

Decided to keep BR 2224 PGS. The CPU has best MEMCLK/FCLK out of the 3 I have. Core performance order isn't bad either, at stock under load from Statuscore the effective average frequencies and VID are as such :-

HWINFO Polling rate 250ms only Core x Clock/Core x Effective Clock/CPU Core VID (Effective) monitored for testing, zero'd HWINFO when CPU under load and readings taken ~30secs length.


Average Effective ClockAverage CPU Core VID (Effective)Core 0 #3/4~4544MHz~1.264VCore 1 #4/5~4543MHz~1.277VCore 2 #1/1~4547MHz~1.231VCore 3 #1/2~4548MHz~1.250VCore 4 #5/6~4524MHz~1.285VCore 5 #7/8~4411MHz~1.271VCore 6 #2/3~4546MHz~1.277VCore 7 #6/7~4500MHz~1.288V

Originally my best CO for CB23 was as in spoiler below, this failed in Y-Cruncher.



Spoiler: CB23 1482 15285















When I got a 5900X I read around online to see how I should do the CO. Mostly people go for all cores -30, this made no sense to me. Each core is different clocks and VID requests, but there is only a single power plane to CPU. So I asked The Stilt 👑 on advice on CO, his guidance was:-

Most people don't realize the so-called binding situation: In your case there are twelve cores and hence, potentially twelve different voltage request under load, yet only a single power plane. In order to prevent a binding situation from happening, find out which of the cores have the highest voltage request under the same workload. Once you have found it, start tuning this core and lower it's curve as much as you can. When you see that the effective VID is no longer decreasing, start again and find the core which holds it up.

Above method worked well for me, I also used this method for the 5800X3D. As best CB23 performing profile wasn't stable in Y-Cruncher, I curbed the 2 cores CO which had WHEA errored. This lead to lower performance in CB23 ~15000 multi, single core remained ~1480.

So next I planned a retune on the CO.

What if I tuned CO so each core was requesting same VID? would this be better performing and stable?

Firstly I tuned poorest clocking cores. Setup HWINFO as stated in table above, loaded CPU with Statuscore, tuned Core 4 to hit ~4548MHz, then Core 7 to same MHz. I saw nice bump in CB23 multi from stock, ~14800 vs ~14400  .

Then I started tuning each core to hit lowest VID seen on a core request at stock underload from StatusCore, ~1.231V VID. Basically making all cores same VID request whilst all hitting ~4550MHz. This cracked ~15100 in CB23, then I tuned a just a bit more.

This CO hit 15157 / 15161 / 15142 in back to back CB23 multi test, single was 1481 / 1480 / 1482 . At this point I was like "Sweeeet!"  , then I did some benches in AIDA64 / CPU-Z / RealBench / 3DM FS & TS, all looked good to me. So I fired up Y-Cruncher and profile nailed 12.25hrs.



Spoiler: CO Retweak CB23 / AIDA64
























Spoiler: Y-Cruncher frequencies for CO retweak




















































Spoiler: Y-Cruncher ~12.25hrs PASS















Continuing testing...


----------



## N2Gaming

Graphics settings are 76xx X 1440 and I max the eye candy where possible. I want the game to look and feel as real as possible. The 5800x hits 4850. Not sure how to see what each core is doing individually.


----------



## tbob22

CB23 results -30 on all cores with CO, core offset voltage -0.0500 CoreCycler stable. I think my soc/vdd voltages can likely be lowered quite a bit. I just set them similar to my 5600x excluding the SOC. Temps are much lower than stock, staying well under 90c now, at stock it was just too much for the poor C14S.










Some preliminary Quake results vs my old 5600x _(PBO tuned -10 to -30 depending on core +200mhz). _Low 0.1% are just an issue with the game, on respawn FPS drops no matter the hardware.
_







_


----------



## 681933

Tangenius said:


> Get Fclock 1:1 with ram and tighten timings.


RAM tuning did basically nothing for me, massive headache for no reason. I just run 3600 MT/s 1:1 at XMP with tuned tRC and tRFC, -30 on CO, reduce PBO2 limits a bit, and let the CPU do its thing.

Tuned memory sure made a difference on my 5900X, but on this 5800X3D? Not so much.

Edit: Just checked. Lowering tRFC and tRC gave me the exact same latency improvements, if not slightly better, as tuning all subtimings. So...


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Crylune said:


> RAM tuning did basically nothing for me, massive headache for no reason.


That's pretty much it.


----------



## jonan14

Hello, this is the first pc that I build, it has the following components:

CPU: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
MOBO: GIGABYTE X570S AORUS Master
GPU: RTX 3070TI
Cooler: Artic liquid freezer II 240mm
RAM: TEAMGROUP T-Force Xtreem ARGB 3600MHz CL14 (4x8GB)
SSD: WD_BLACK SN850X NVMe SSD
PSU: be quiet! Dark Power 12 750 W, 80 Plus Titanium

I live in South America (Colombia), I'm not very knowledgeable about these topics but I'm a fast learner, due to the temperatures in my city (~ 27 C), I want to improve PC temperatures without sacrificing much performance.

So far I have used PBO2 with -30 on all cores, and running CB R23 has peaks of 87C.

I also appreciate advice regarding RAM memory, I use the default XMP profile.


Thank you


----------



## 681933

jonan14 said:


> I also appreciate advice regarding RAM memory, I use the default XMP profile.
> 
> 
> Thank you
> View attachment 2587788


Lower tRC to 50, and tRFC/tRFC2/tRFC4 to any of the following values:

288 / 213 / 131

252 / 187 / 115

The one above is more stable, but if you can, try the second one.

Optimizing only these two timings will bring you more latency improvements than you'd ever get wasting time on all the subtimings.


----------



## tbob22

So I found that my board actually allows positive voltage offsets. Kind of pointless because multiplier is locked, but I guess it would help for base clock overclocking. I only pushed it to ~1.25 (+0.0500) as a test. I actually get slightly better performance/clocks using Kombo Strike 3 + CO and -0.0500 offset. CB23 seems to sit at 4.4 in MT and 4.55 in ST.


----------



## Frosted racquet

Would you guys pay ~200eur to upgrade from a 5600x to a 5800X3D, with a 1080p 240Hz and 6600XT? Most likely wont upgrade my GPU for at least 6 months. Mostly play eSport titles. Contemplating upgrading the CPU, but would like to hear your oppinions.


----------



## 681933

Frosted racquet said:


> Would you guys pay ~200eur to upgrade from a 5600x to a 5800X3D, with a 1080p 240Hz and 6600XT? Most likely wont upgrade my GPU for at least 6 months. Mostly play eSport titles. Contemplating upgrading the CPU, but would like to hear your oppinions.


I would, especially at that resolution it's a massive upgrade, generational in fact. If you want to hold onto AM4 for a good while, 5800X3D now is the way to go.

Heck, I'm seeing big gains *at 1440p* after going from a 5900X to 5800X3D, let alone 5600X.


----------



## tbob22

Frosted racquet said:


> Would you guys pay ~200eur to upgrade from a 5600x to a 5800X3D, with a 1080p 240Hz and 6600XT? Most likely wont upgrade my GPU for at least 6 months. Mostly play eSport titles. Contemplating upgrading the CPU, but would like to hear your oppinions.


I basically did just that (~$165 after selling 5600x) and with my 1080ti I see 30-50% gains in some titles at 240hz 1080p.


----------



## 681933

I would like to add that with the 5800X3D, my 6900 XT is now 99% utilized, which my 5900X couldn't achieve. And it would've surely not have achieved that with my future 7900 XTX.


----------



## chrisz5z

jonan14 said:


> Hello, this is the first pc that I build, it has the following components:
> 
> CPU: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
> MOBO: GIGABYTE X570S AORUS Master
> GPU: RTX 3070TI
> Cooler: Artic liquid freezer II 240mm
> RAM: TEAMGROUP T-Force Xtreem ARGB 3600MHz CL14 (4x8GB)
> SSD: WD_BLACK SN850X NVMe SSD
> PSU: be quiet! Dark Power 12 750 W, 80 Plus Titanium
> 
> I live in South America (Colombia), I'm not very knowledgeable about these topics but I'm a fast learner, due to the temperatures in my city (~ 27 C), I want to improve PC temperatures without sacrificing much performance.
> 
> So far I have used PBO2 with -30 on all cores, and running CB R23 has peaks of 87C.
> 
> I also appreciate advice regarding RAM memory, I use the default XMP profile.
> 
> 
> Thank you
> View attachment 2587788


You could also try lowering your tFAW to 16. Also, if you have issues lowering tRFC as @Crylune suggested, raise your voltage to 1.5V. Most B-die can run 1.5V all day long with no cooling.



Frosted racquet said:


> Would you guys pay ~200eur to upgrade from a 5600x to a 5800X3D, with a 1080p 240Hz and 6600XT? Most likely wont upgrade my GPU for at least 6 months. Mostly play eSport titles. Contemplating upgrading the CPU, but would like to hear your oppinions.


If high framerate @ 1080p/1440p is part of your goal when you eventually upgrade your GPU, then yes it's definitely worth the upgrade.


----------



## Frosted racquet

Thanks guys. Will probably pull the trigger soon.
Don't plan on upgrading from 1080p 240Hz until 4K 144Hz+ (QD)OLED become more affordable and viable for desktop use.


----------



## 681933

chrisz5z said:


> You could also try lowering your tFAW to 16.


True true, that one actually does something as well. @jonan14 Just make sure it's tRRDS * 4, so ideally tRRDS = 4 and tFAW = 16, tRRDL can also be 4 but try upping it to 6 or 8 if unstable.


----------



## N2Gaming

time spy on the 5800x


----------



## 681933

N2Gaming said:


> time spy on the 5800x


I do not use Time Spy ever since getting the 5800X3D due to it being so DRAM dependent (which the X3D isn't) that it completely brushes off the X3D and makes it look bad despite its real world gaming performance. 5800X3D doesn't shine in synthetics, but in real world gaming where it actually matters, the 5800X might as well say a prayer.

But FWIW, I got a 22.1k graphics score with my 6900 XT, pretty proud of that. Actually... I do wonder if I'd be getting a higher graphics score now with this CPU...


----------



## Verangry

No you won't until you raise the Powerlimits, voltages and clocks of your GPU.
Still getting arround 25k GPU Score, Just like I got with my 5900X


----------



## 681933

Already done that, so no more improvement I guess... until I get the XTX  Which by the way... that 7900 XTX Nitro reveal... I want that in my bloodstream ⭐w⭐


----------



## gupsterg

Crylune said:


> Lower tRC to 50, and tRFC/tRFC2/tRFC4 to any of the following values:
> 
> 288 / 213 / 131
> 
> 252 / 187 / 115
> 
> The one above is more stable, but if you can, try the second one.
> 
> Optimizing only these two timings will bring you more latency improvements than you'd ever get wasting time on all the subtimings.


tRFC2 / tRFC4 no need to set.


----------



## tabascosauz

N2Gaming said:


> time spy on the 5800x


iirc time spy CPU is just a light all-core test. So if you can't get your R23 clocks up for whatever reason, your timespy CPU score will be low too

though, it shouldn't really be very indicative of other games, as most games do not run all-core and scale purely off clock like Timespy does. I think 5800X is generally expected to beat 5800X3D at Time Spy, tells you all you need to know about the relevance of 3DMark


----------



## N2Gaming

Looks like your 58003dx scores better than my 5800x for the cpu score.


----------



## tabascosauz

N2Gaming said:


> Looks like your 58003dx scores better than my 5800x for the cpu score.


When I got that timespy result I was talking to some others with 5800X3D and power-limited 5800X and everyone seemed to fall around the same 12k ballpark at around 100W. Maybe memory plays a meaningful role in Timespy? I know 5800X in particular can be very picky as to power limits for performance


----------



## tbob22

A bit more..


----------



## 681933

gupsterg said:


> tRFC2 / tRFC4 no need to set.


Why so?


----------



## AXi0M

Crylune said:


> Why so?


tRFC2/4 are only used when ram is above 85c (or close to)


----------



## Owterspace

85?

Surely no one runs them that hot


----------



## OCmember

@tabascosauz does your chip need 60 ProcODT? If you haven't tried lower it might be a good idea to settle somewhere in the 40s


----------



## tabascosauz

OCmember said:


> @tabascosauz does your chip need 60 ProcODT? If you haven't tried lower it might be a good idea to settle somewhere in the 40s


It doesn't, it runs 40 and 43 fine. I updated to 4303 and forgot to change it. Are there actually any consequences though? I only remember some combinations of Rtt being deadly for DDR4, I ran 40/43.6/60 interchangeably on this kit on my 5900X too

ProcODT and cadbus do not help me get past the 1900 FCLK wall


----------



## Blameless

AXi0M said:


> tRFC2/4 are only used when ram is above 85c (or close to)


Fine granularity refresh (FGR) modes and the reduced refresh _interval_ in the extended temperature range (past 85C) are entirely different things. tRFC doesn't get shorter or switch modes at 85C, tRFCI does. At 85C+, you still normally get a full tRFC, twice as often.



https://www.csl.cornell.edu/%7Emartinez/doc/isca13-mukundan.pdf





tabascosauz said:


> It doesn't, it runs 40 and 43 fine. I updated to 4303 and forgot to change it. Are there actually any consequences though? I only remember some combinations of Rtt being deadly for DDR4, I ran 40/43.6/60 interchangeably on this kit on my 5900X too
> 
> ProcODT and cadbus do not help me get past the 1900 FCLK wall


Higher ProcODT increases the current load on the CPU's memory PHYs. 60 ohm isn't going to hurt anything unless you're running extremely high vDIMM, but all other things being equal, lower is better.


----------



## FlashFir

I just got this and put my D14 on it with a line of some paste I had lying around...

The right column are my max temps throughout normal use in the day, Overwatch 2 being the biggest load that I can think of. Does this seem right? Coming from a 2700x I expected this to run hotter, just don't know how this is...



http://imgur.com/IVfDMgy


I'm googling what normal temps are and it does seem to run hotter, just curious what you guys think temps should be with a D14. I'm in Southern California so no extreme temps.


----------



## Blameless

That's pretty normal. The part will start to throttle around 80C, so getting it significantly higher in general use is rare.


----------



## tabascosauz

Blameless said:


> Higher ProcODT increases the current load on the CPU's memory PHYs. 60 ohm isn't going to hurt anything unless you're running extremely high vDIMM, but all other things being equal, lower is better.


Fair enough. Guess I'll go back to 40.

As for tRFC2/4, I don't completely buy memtestehelper's 85C explanation and I appreciate the link to technical background, but the fact that none of the board vendors agree about tRFC2 and tRFC4 and the fact it makes zero difference to performance is pretty telling.

MSI by default locks you out of tRFC2/4 control and sets both identical to what you set as tRFC. 
Gigabyte has tRFC>tRFC2>tRFC4 but doesn't follow the formula that some people used in pre-Zen 2 days.
Asus chooses whatever numbers it pleases.

Same kits on all of these boards have performed the within margin of error and minor board differences.


----------



## Blameless

tabascosauz said:


> As for tRFC2/4, I don't completely buy memtestehelper's 85C explanation and I appreciate the link to technical background, but the fact that none of the board vendors agree about tRFC2 and tRFC4 and the fact it makes zero difference to performance is pretty telling.
> 
> MSI by default locks you out of tRFC2/4 control and sets both identical to what you set as tRFC.
> Gigabyte has tRFC>tRFC2>tRFC4 but doesn't follow the formula that some people used in pre-Zen 2 days.
> Asus chooses whatever numbers it pleases.
> 
> Same kits on all of these boards have performed the within margin of error and minor board differences.


I have no idea if FGR is actually being used, but it's almost certainly not being turned on by hitting the extended temperature range either (and I can get my memory to 85C, if I try).

That said, since I can't actually rule out FGR being used in certain scenarios, I do set sensible values here anyway.

As for the FGR formula, that was always dependent on IC density and most people were using values from 8Gb ICs (because 8Gb Samsung B-die was the thing). tRFC x2 is normally the same as the full refresh for the next smaller IC size, and x4 two sizes smaller. If you have 4Gb or 16Gb, ICs, the ratio between the values will change.


----------



## bottjeremy

Just got my X3D today and did a compare vs my 5900X. In COD at least, not a huge difference using the in-game benchmark. In Cyberpunk's bench though, was a nice jump. From 113fps to 122fps @ 1440P with Ray Tracing :Ultra settings. I'm liking this chip a lot so far.


----------



## 681933

AXi0M said:


> tRFC2/4 are only used when ram is above 85c (or close to)


Interesting, wonder why me accidentally setting tRFC2 to 60 made the system unbootable then.

Also a question for memory enthusiasts here, it seems my tRTP being set to 8 caused all my issues, tRTP 10 is stable no matter what my other timings are set to (except for tRCDRD which seems to only like 16). Does tWR *need* to be 2 * tRTP or can I lower it as much as possible? Also, do I need to follow the tRCDRD + tCL formula for tRAS and tRP + tRAS for tRC, or can I also lower those as much as I can? Will there be a benefit? Here's what works right now:


----------



## N2Gaming

My 5800X3D arrived today as well. I’m too busy reorganizing and cleaning for a Christmas so the CPU will sit in a box for a little while until I’m done with other higher priorities.


----------



## Blameless

Crylune said:


> Interesting, wonder why me accidentally setting tRFC2 to 60 made the system unbootable then.


Probably used for training, even if it doesn't actually engage anywhere else.



Crylune said:


> Does tWR *need* to be 2 * tRTP or can I lower it as much as possible?


It defaults to that, but it's not mandatory. There can be some small benefit going tighter on tWR, if you cannot just reduce tRTP further.



Crylune said:


> Also, do I need to follow the tRCDRD + tCL formula for tRAS


This is a very loose guideline that isn't really based on anything. tRAS is a window that will simply be held open longer if it's too short, but the lowest possible setting is not always the fastest.



Crylune said:


> and tRP + tRAS for tRC, or can I also lower those as much as I can? Will there be a benefit?


tRC will usually benefit from going as low as is stable, but there is usually very little gain for not calculating tRAS as tRC - tRP...e.g. once you have tRP and tRC dialed in as tight as they go, you normally have a solid tRAS figure automatically.


----------



## 681933

Blameless said:


> Probably used for training, even if it doesn't actually engage anywhere else.


Yeah, I'll keep the values I have now though since I like lower numbers  252 - 187 - 115 sounds nice and uniform.



Blameless said:


> It defaults to that, but it's not mandatory. There can be some small benefit going tighter on tWR, if you cannot just reduce tRTP further.


Yeah tRTP is the bane of my existence and absolutely won't go under 10. Just did 3 cycles with tRFC set dangerously low for my RAM temperature, yet it's fine. With tRTP 8 it would error in like 10 minutes. I'll try getting tWR down to 12 when I get home.



Blameless said:


> This is a very loose guideline that isn't really based on anything. tRAS is a window that will simply be held open longer if it's too short, but the lowest possible setting is not always the fastest.





Blameless said:


> tRC will usually benefit from going as low as is stable, but there is usually very little gain for not calculating tRAS as tRC - tRP...e.g. once you have tRP and tRC dialed in as tight as they go, you normally have a solid tRAS figure automatically.


Ideally I would want to have 14-16-14-28-42 and not lower but I'm not sure if that will generate a performance penalty as per the DDR4 OC guidelines on Github. It seems stable, but again not sure if I want to do it.


----------



## Blameless

Crylune said:


> Ideally I would want to have 14-16-14-28-42 and not lower but I'm not sure if that will generate a performance penalty as per the DDR4 OC guidelines on Github. It seems stable, but again not sure if I want to do it.


tRAS can definitely be tighter than tRCDRD + tRP and see benefit, often without any stability issues. B-die in particular can usually take extremely tight tRAS (though some ICs are much more picky...16Gb Samsung M-die needs a fairly huge tRAS, for example). The Github guide references a single kind of transaction, but that's not every kind of transaction where the tRAS window is relevant, nor is it even the longest relevant window.

Optimal performance for tRAS can easily vary from benchmark to benchmark, so you need to test things with some care if you're not just going to retroactively calculate it based on tRP and tRC (which are almost always lower = faster).


----------



## 681933

Alright, I'll do 14-16-8-14-28-42 and compare PerformanceTest & AIDA64 results, see how it goes. If it works, I'll lower tWR as much as I can and leave the timings at that. 3733 CL14 would require 1.5V which would be really pushing the already high temperature and ideally I want the lowest voltages possible, as you can see from my SoC, VDDG and VDDP voltages which are all 1v, 0.950v and 0.900v respectively. I don't want 3733 CL16 either.

Currently at work, left TM5 anta777 running. Hope I return home to no errors. Did 3 cycles without issues before I left.


----------



## 681933

FlashFir said:


> I just got this and put my D14 on it with a line of some paste I had lying around...
> 
> The right column are my max temps throughout normal use in the day, Overwatch 2 being the biggest load that I can think of. Does this seem right? Coming from a 2700x I expected this to run hotter, just don't know how this is...
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/IVfDMgy
> 
> 
> I'm googling what normal temps are and it does seem to run hotter, just curious what you guys think temps should be with a D14. I'm in Southern California so no extreme temps.


It's fine. I do see 81C max in games (usually 65-75C) with my NH-U12A, though that might be my -30 CO curve combined with my case airflow. Non CO results would probably be in the same ballpark as yours.

When you have silicon spacers above your cores, of course it will be hard to cool something with less than adequate thermal transfer. AMD knew this and these temperatures are okay, so don't worry.


----------



## Unhumanje

Just bought the 5800x3d (upgrade from 3600) and bundled it with a thermalright PA 120 SE. PBO set on -30 all cores. I've kept my RAM settings the same as with the ryzen 3600 (via dram calculator) - anything worth changing? I only care about gaming in reality.











Setup:
5800x3d + thermalright PA 120 SE (PBO -30 all core)
MSI B450 Gaming Plus Max
Crucial Ballistix BL2K8G36C16U4B 3600 MHz (2x8GB)
Nvidia 3080 10GB

CB 23.2 temps (at -30 offset):


----------



## OCmember

@Unhumanje I would remove that -30 PBO and test the limit of the IF first. You might be able to get 1866 or 1900 or more, unless you are limited by your Memory frequency?

@Crylune can you rest a fan on your GPU and point it towards your memory sticks?


----------



## 681933

No, nor do I want to do that. Would look horrendous.


----------



## Unhumanje

OCmember said:


> @Unhumanje I would remove that -30 PBO and test the limit of the IF first. You might be able to get 1866 or 1900 or more, unless you are limited by your Memory frequency?
> 
> @Crylune can you rest a fan on your GPU and point it towards your memory sticks?


I tried setting RAM at 3733 with the ryzen ram calculator recommended settings, but memtest would give me errors


----------



## gupsterg

Continuing on from post 3891, CO profile tweak "VID harmonisation method" passed 8hrs RealBench



Spoiler

























Ran fah for 0.33hrs (system uptime 1 day 1 hour 50 minutes)


Spoiler















Then I had an itch to meddle  , before that I got the clocks and VID for this profile, imgur screenie album.

CO RT2, I increased each magnitude by -1 except core 5 & 6 needed -2 to harmonise VID.



Spoiler: CB23 1st run got me 1482 15193















I then decided to tweak core 2 back to -3 instead of -4. CB23 was 1479 15278, 1480 15244. At this point it was so close to the best numbers I've gotten from this CPU on CO tweaks that I decided to tinker with voltages to see if I got any improvement in bench.



Spoiler: CB23 1481 15309















Next run 1484 15292. Any changes to combo of relevant voltages, may that be up/down, I see no better numbers. Will be stability testing this profile soon and seeing if can gain a smidge more with any further profile tweaks  .



gupsterg said:


> tRFC2 / tRFC4 no need to set.
> 
> 
> Crylune said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why so?
Click to expand...

Way back when 1000 series launched I asked The Stilt, answer was not used. I poured over Micron/Samsung DDR4 PDF and ones like Blameless linked and the answer was unclear to me why Ryzen doesn't use them. When I got Threadripper 1000/2000 series, the answer was the same again. And you can guess what it was with AM4 2000 series, 3000 series, I didn't even bother him in regard to 5000 series.

Another little known fact is how to apply PLL.

Peter "Shamino" Tan posted in the C8 thread about it, link. Increases on PLL will only be effective towards increased FCLK on subsequent POST, link. I have been collecting "Pearls of wisdom" on Ryzen since launch....


----------



## OCmember

Crylune said:


> No, nor do I want to do that. Would look horrendous.


Keeps my DR sticks @ 1.5v under 38*c after hours and hours of RAM stability tests.. and I rarely look at my rig like that anymore.


----------



## bottjeremy

bottjeremy said:


> Just got my X3D today and did a compare vs my 5900X. In COD at least, not a huge difference using the in-game benchmark. In Cyberpunk's bench though, was a nice jump. From 113fps to 122fps @ 1440P with Ray Tracing :Ultra settings. I'm liking this chip a lot so far.


Here is the Cyberpunk compare video. After seeing the CPU's side by side, I'm much happier with my upgrade.


----------



## AXi0M

OCmember said:


> Keeps my DR sticks @ 1.5v under 38*c after hours and hours of RAM stability tests.. and I rarely look at my rig like that anymore.


and what temp when a loaded GPU is cooking the bottom of them and actually using the system? better off stress testing them with all case fans turned off to see if they're stable at 60c


----------



## 681933

Unhumanje said:


> ryzen ram calculator


That thing is pretty garbage, I wouldn't use it. Gives you no direction on how to resolve things if its asinine recommendations gives you a no POST.

Actually I swore not to use anything 1usmus again after his wonderful clocktuner decided to give my old 3900X 1.55V static while running a heavy AVX test. No wonder I had memory issues with that CPU.


----------



## 681933

OCmember said:


> Keeps my DR sticks @ 1.5v under 38*c after hours and hours of RAM stability tests.. and I rarely look at my rig like that anymore.


I'm fully aware that a fan would fix temp issues. But I choose not to. Each to their own. If it's stable at my current temps I don't have a reason to. 

Not to mention I care more about the aesthetics of my build than some marginal gains from overclocking these things higher.

A random fan in the middle of my pc would look so out of place and would block out the sheer charm of my future 7900 XTX Nitro.


----------



## gupsterg

Crylune said:


> 3
> I'm fully aware that a fan would fix temp issues. But I choose not to. Each to their own. If it's stable at my current temps I don't have a reason to. Not to mention I care more about the aesthetics of my build than some marginal gains from overclocking these things higher.


Micron E die is my go to for daily use. Doesn't tweak down on timings as Samsung B die. But is less affected by temperature. Even with a fan on lengthy tests (~12hrs) I've seen my sets of B die throw 1 or 2 errors in RT at 3800, but the Mircon just keeps going...

Back in 2020 it was literally half the price of Samsung B die, so much "bang for $".

Another thing I've luv'd about the Crucial Ballistix Sport LT set was the minimalistic spreaders, etc. And in 2 years of owning and multiple in/out of slots the spreaders stayed on. Had a set of G.Skill RipJaws V where the spreaders started opening up, on Patroit Viper set they just dropped off one day 😳. Even though GPU had no backplate was lucky no short occurred.


----------



## 681933

gupsterg said:


> Micron E die is my go to for daily use. Doesn't tweak down on timings as Samsung B die. But is less affected by temperature. Even with a fan on lengthy tests (~12hrs) I've seen my sets of B die throw 1 or 2 errors in RT at 3800, but the Mircon just keeps going...
> 
> Back in 2020 it was literally half the price of Samsung B die, so much "bang for $".
> 
> Another thing I've luv'd about the Crucial Ballistix Sport LT set was the minimalistic spreaders, etc. And in 2 years of owning and multiple in/out of slots the spreaders stayed on. Had a set of G.Skill RipJaws V where the spreaders started opening up, on Patroit Viper set they just dropped off one day 😳. Even though GPU had no backplate was lucky no short occurred.


Well I'm sticking with this kit as it was quite expensive. Next time I upgrade RAM it'll be a whole platform upgrade to AM5 & DDR5. I'll see what I choose then, need to learn the ropes on OCing DDR5.


----------



## gupsterg

Crylune said:


> Well I'm sticking with this kit as it was quite expensive. Next time I upgrade RAM it'll be a whole platform upgrade to AM5 & DDR5. I'll see what I choose then, need to learn the ropes on OCing DDR5.


Yeah I would too, unless an opportunity rises no point.

Trident Z I do luv the spreaders and not had an issue with them. Probably the best heatsinks I've had on set. Only issue I've even noted on them was RGB sets, the colour changes make a write SPD. Several people way back in C6H thread at launch had issue. Thaiphoon burner author got to bottom of issue when he surfaced in thread. Dunno if G.Skill changed method, but always I've stayed clear of RGB set.


----------



## AXi0M

gupsterg said:


> Micron E die is my go to for daily use. Doesn't tweak down on timings as Samsung B die. But is less affected by temperature. Even with a fan on lengthy tests (~12hrs) I've seen my sets of B die throw 1 or 2 errors in RT at 3800, but the Mircon just keeps going...
> 
> Back in 2020 it was literally half the price of Samsung B die, so much "bang for $".
> 
> Another thing I've luv'd about the Crucial Ballistix Sport LT set was the minimalistic spreaders, etc. And in 2 years of owning and multiple in/out of slots the spreaders stayed on. Had a set of G.Skill RipJaws V where the spreaders started opening up, on Patroit Viper set they just dropped off one day 😳. Even though GPU had no backplate was lucky no short occurred.


I'm running 4x8 b-die, one set 2x8 from ~2018 and the other 2x8 from 2022. One set is A0 PCB and the other is A2 PCB made overclocking very interesting lol


----------



## Imprezzion

How does the 5800X3D do with async memory OC? For example 4400 straight 17's async 1967 fclk vs 3933 straight 16's synced? Anyone ever tried like real high memory clocks on these?


----------



## 681933

It would appear these settings are stable, even with the super tight tWR. tRTP being set to 8 instead of 10 was the whole issue. I was even able to get 140ns tRFC despite the temperature with no errors, before I thought I could only manage 180ns on that. Very happy right now.


----------



## gupsterg

Well I'm pretty much done with CO.

CO profile tweak "VID harmonisation method" : -8 -11 -3 -7 -13 -23 -9 -17 is pretty much best I can get without running into stability issues.

The further CB23 enhancing profile as in post 3937 (-9 -12 -4 -7 -14 -25 -11 -18) initially failed on core 04 loaded with Y-Cruncher, trimmed that to -13. Then core 5 failed, had to set as -23 to gain 2hr pass in Y-Cruncher. Then I rebenched CB23 multi was 15202/15060/15202/15160, about 1% swing lowest/highest result.

Tried last night also to see if can get more MEMCLK/FCLK/UCLK as 1:1:1, 3866/1933 would pass some benches WHEA free, Y-Cruncher would fail on core 0 with WHEA 19, which in context of settings I believe is FCLK related rather than core. I couldn't further improve any impactful timings on the Micron E @1.35V.

This morning tried -8 -11 -2 -6 -13 -23 -9 -17, so core 3 & 4 (best cores) got a bit more juice to see if bench better. CB23 multi 15164/15210/15168/15198 seemed a bit better than -8 -11 -3 -7 -13 -23 -9 -17.

Saw on THG below results.



Spoiler




































That's some nice results without PBO.



AXi0M said:


> I'm running 4x8 b-die, one set 2x8 from ~2018 and the other 2x8 from 2022. One set is A0 PCB and the other is A2 PCB made overclocking very interesting lol


I can guess it would be  , mine are quad kit B die, 2017.



Imprezzion said:


> How does the 5800X3D do with async memory OC? For example 4400 straight 17's async 1967 fclk vs 3933 straight 16's synced? Anyone ever tried like real high memory clocks on these?


Will be trying async at some point soon.


----------



## AXi0M

Crylune said:


> It would appear these settings are stable, even with the super tight tWR. tRTP being set to 8 instead of 10 was the whole issue. I was even able to get 140ns tRFC despite the temperature with no errors, before I thought I could only manage 180ns on that. Very happy right now.
> 
> View attachment 2588107


1900 fclk no go? also could set your DD's to 4&6. and since it's 4x8 SR you can set your SD's to 1


----------



## 681933

AXi0M said:


> 1900 fclk no go? also could set your DD's to 4&6. and since it's 4x8 SR you can set your SD's to 1


Sigh.

1867 requires 1.5V on the DIMMs which is a no. 1900 boots but very unstable, restarts instantly.

Every time I touch those weirdo tertiaries I get no POST.

This is best I can do and I'm fine with it


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Crylune said:


> Lower tRC to 50, and tRFC/tRFC2/tRFC4 to any of the following values:
> 
> 288 / 213 / 131
> 
> 252 / 187 / 115
> 
> The one above is more stable, but if you can, try the second one.
> 
> Optimizing only these two timings will bring you more latency improvements than you'd ever get wasting time on all the subtimings.


Where did you get those timings from? What can you tell about my configuration:


----------



## AXi0M

Crylune said:


> Sigh.
> 
> 1867 requires 1.5V on the DIMMs which is a no. 1900 boots but very unstable, restarts instantly.
> 
> Every time I touch those weirdo tertiaries I get no POST.
> 
> This is best I can do and I'm fine with it


the highlighted timings are the ones i mean, try it out, just be careful of the order in bios is different than zentimings (at least on my board)

works for 4x8 dimm setups, if it was 2x16 1-4-1-1-6-1 would be the best


----------



## 681933

AXi0M said:


> the highlighted timings are the ones i mean, try it out, just be careful of the order in bios is different than zentimings (at least on my board)
> 
> works for 4x8 dimm setups, if it was 2x16 1-4-1-1-6-1 would be the best
> 
> View attachment 2588145


Tried it. Seems to boot at 1-1-4-1-1-6 order in ZenTimings. Took the liberty to lower tWRRD further to 4 as well. 20 minutes into TM5 seems to be fine at the max temperature my dimms can reach.

Unless I stick an ugly fan in the middle of my PC, 1867 cannot be reached. If this works, this'll be the end of my ram oc adventures until my next build. Thanks for the tip. Not sure what I set them to to make the PC unbootable the first time around.


----------



## AXi0M

Crylune said:


> Tried it. Seems to boot at 1-1-4-1-1-6 order in ZenTimings. Took the liberty to lower tWRRD further to 4 as well. 20 minutes into TM5 seems to be fine at the max temperature my dimms can reach.
> 
> Unless I stick an ugly fan in the middle of my PC, 1867 cannot be reached. If this works, this'll be the end of my ram oc adventures until my next build. Thanks for the tip. Not sure what I set them to to make the PC unbootable the first time around.


nice! your cl14 might be what's causing all your issues with higher frequency tho. 3600c16 XMP -> 3800c16 is alot easier than 3600c16 XMP -> 3600c14

example my 3200c14 XMP dimms can only do 3600c14 but can do 4266c16 (albeit with 1.6v)


----------



## 681933

AXi0M said:


> nice! your cl14 might be what's causing all your issues with higher frequency tho. 3600c16 XMP -> 3800c16 is alot easier than 3600c16 XMP -> 3600c14


I know, but I'd rather run 3600 CL14 over 3733 CL16. 3800 CL16, the last one not even being possible due to bad IF on the CPU. No matter what timing & voltage combos I try, 3800 / 1900 never boots.

Just tried it again. Stuck on DRAM debug light. My 5900X could do 3800 CL16 but this CPU just can't and I'm kinda tired of fiddling.

So between 3600 cl14 and 3733 CL16 it is, I choose the former.


----------



## Geno_

Think I've got a decent sample, no WHEA's, stable @ 4000. -30 CO all cores.

Boosting to max on a decent number of cores, even on a bloated win11 OS. Tempted to try and bring down some of the timings but I'm trying to keep VDIMM sub 1.5v (at 1.45v right now) to keep temps down.



















Will fresh install OS again soon and do some benchmarks before any bloat goes on. 

Open to any recommendations on improvements, fairly new at this sort of thing!


----------



## 681933

Geno_ said:


> even on a bloated win11 OS


Psh, please, Windows 11 runs on half an Alder Lake E-core. Stop listening to the placebo pushers who think removing the stuff that comes with Windows makes any difference on a modern PC. Half of it is just shortcuts and not even installed.

What does make a difference and hurt performance is when you buy a pre-built and all sorts of manufacturer crap comes pre-installed. I would just clean install Windows at that point and not go any further than that. GamersNexus benched it and Dell's crapware used up to 30% GPU idle, but a fresh Windows install didn't.

Unless you're referring to manufacturer crapware installing after a fresh install, such as the dreaded Armoury Crate or Razer Synapse, there is no point in "debloating" Windows.



Geno_ said:


> stable @ 4000. -30 CO all cores.


What did you use to test?


----------



## STAJIEVAR

hello, I recently purchased 5800x3d, air ak620, asusu x570, set pbo2 to -30, do I need to adjust something else for optimal processor operation, cr23 will dial 14300


----------



## Frosted racquet

STAJIEVAR said:


> hello, I recently purchased 5800x3d, air ak620, asusu x570, set pbo2 to -30, do I need to adjust something else for optimal processor operation, cr23 will dial 14300


What are your temps? Usually the score should be around 15k in CB23


----------



## STAJIEVAR

Frosted racquet said:


> What are your temps? Usually the score should be around 15k in CB23


----------



## Frosted racquet

Can you try to reapply thermal paste, the temps are hitting thermal limit, that's why you're not seeing 15k+ scores. The goal is to keep the CPU below 80°C for maximum clock boost.


----------



## STAJIEVAR

Frosted racquet said:


> Can you try to reapply thermal paste, the temps are hitting thermal limit, that's why you're not seeing 15k+ scores. The goal is to keep the CPU below 80°C for maximum clock boost.


already changed, the result is the same, mx4 paste, anyway, I don't think that thermal paste affects temperatures very much.


----------



## 681933

STAJIEVAR said:


> already changed, the result is the same, mx4 paste, anyway, I don't think that thermal paste affects temperatures very much.


The results you're getting are with -30 on the Curve Optimizer, correct? That doesn't look right to me then.

My 5800X3D got pretty hot, I'm going to be honest. It got to around 86-88C on my NH-U12A in Cinebench R23 and scored around 14680, with -30 CO.

Notice how I'm using past tense, because I just re-pasted the CPU after deciding to do so out of wonder if I even applied the paste correctly. And I did - it was a completely even spread on the IHS and it wasn't thick. Though a bit thicker than I would've liked.

So I re-pasted again, using the 5 dots method again, except applied considerably less paste this time.

What do you know, temps went to 81-84C now and I scored around 14800. Still not the 15k everyone else is getting, but at this point it's like a 2% performance difference. Would probably need a Liquid Freezer II 360 with offset mount to get any better than this. In games - which this CPU is made for - coolers won't change a thing unlike synthetic multi-core workloads. I always see 4.45 GHz all core in multicore games despite CB R23 not holding the same clocks.

Either way, you should be seeing much more than that considering you repasted. Did you use 5 dots or an X? Pea sized dot is not enough on Ryzen due to the massive IHS. That method always had it spread out in a circle leaving out the corners where the core chiplet is, and it got hot. But ever since I started using 5 dots, I've had flawless paste applications all the time. Just gotta keep in mind to not apply so much.


----------



## N2Gaming

I just use the plastic spreader to apply thermal paste and make sure the IHS is completely covered. Works ok for me so far. I might be rethinking this when I get around to installing this x3d.


----------



## 681933

N2Gaming said:


> I just use the plastic spreader to apply thermal paste and make sure the IHS is completely covered. Works ok for me so far. I might be rethinking this when I get around to installing this x3d.


That works also! Both 5 dots and that method cover the CPU perfectly. I just prefer letting the cooler do the spreading work.

But a single dot is really not good enough on these big IHS multi chiplet CPUs, so I'm wondering if @STAJIEVAR used it.


----------



## Imprezzion

Crylune said:


> Tried it. Seems to boot at 1-1-4-1-1-6 order in ZenTimings. Took the liberty to lower tWRRD further to 4 as well. 20 minutes into TM5 seems to be fine at the max temperature my dimms can reach.
> 
> Unless I stick an ugly fan in the middle of my PC, 1867 cannot be reached. If this works, this'll be the end of my ram oc adventures until my next build. Thanks for the tip. Not sure what I set them to to make the PC unbootable the first time around.


I put a Corsair Dominator Airflow cooler on mine. Doesn't look as terrible as a random fan and keeps them a lot cooler and on PWM 50% it's inaudible.



Crylune said:


> That works also! Both 5 dots and that method cover the CPU perfectly. I just prefer letting the cooler do the spreading work.
> 
> 
> 
> But a single dot is really not good enough on these big IHS multi chiplet CPUs, so I'm wondering if @STAJIEVAR used it.


I used the line method on this mount cycle and it seems to have worked fine so far. Temps are good and core to core spread is very close 1-2c.


----------



## tbob22

Crylune said:


> That works also! Both 5 dots and that method cover the CPU perfectly. I just prefer letting the cooler do the spreading work.
> 
> But a single dot is really not good enough on these big IHS multi chiplet CPUs, so I'm wondering if @STAJIEVAR used it.


I've not had any coverage issues with a larger dot right in the center on AM4 at least with Noctua coolers. Maybe it could be an issue with flatter base versus the concave of Noctua coolers where it will generally spread pretty evenly? At -30 and a -.0500 offset my X3D on a C14S sits around 80c in CB23.

I do use a cross on larger IHS like 20xx, etc.


----------



## StevieRay2

I just use an X and let the heatsink spread it out, if I added a bit too much it would just go on the side of the heatshield so no issue using slightly too much, much better than using slightly too little. -30CO R23 multi 81c max with a D15S, not bad in my opinion


----------



## tbob22

StevieRay2 said:


> I just use an X and let the heatsink spread it out, if I added a bit too much it would just go on the side of the heatshield so no issue using slightly too much, much better than using slightly too little. -30CO R23 multi 81c max with a D15S, not bad in my opinion


Yeah, as long as it has good coverage, every time I take off my cooler it had very good coverage with a larger dot, similar to what I've always used on 115x, 1366, AM2/3, etc. never really had any issues. I think the X3D just runs a bit hot no matter the cooler even though it's less than 130w at max load.


----------



## Imprezzion

Now that we are talking temps, with my custom loop at -30 CO R23 I get around 72c at 4450 all core 15100 points. I built another rig for a friend and he has a Arctic Freezer II 420 on it and even on 0 CO he gets only 67c. Even less then I get.. like how. How is that thing running SO cool even at 1.250 vCore 4267 all core..


----------



## tbob22

Imprezzion said:


> Now that we are talking temps, with my custom loop at -30 CO R23 I get around 72c at 4450 all core 15100 points. I built another rig for a friend and he has a Arctic Freezer II 420 on it and even on 0 CO he gets only 67c. Even less then I get.. like how. How is that thing running SO cool even at 1.250 vCore 4267 all core..


Better bin maybe? I'd think you'd get a bit higher than that in CB23, I get ~15150 at ~4350 effective clocks.


----------



## Geno_

Crylune said:


> What did you use to test?


Ran corecycler for 2 hours and memtest for 2 hours. Going to try and bring VSOC and VDDG IOD down a few notches and try again.


----------



## gupsterg

N2Gaming said:


> I just use the plastic spreader to apply thermal paste and make sure the IHS is completely covered. Works ok for me so far. I might be rethinking this when I get around to installing this x3d.


I've always spread TIM using plastic card, worked fine on testing 3x 5800X3D, 4 mounts so far.



Geno_ said:


> Think I've got a decent sample, no WHEA's, stable @ 4000. -30 CO all cores.
> 
> Boosting to max on a decent number of cores, even on a bloated win11 OS. Tempted to try and bring down some of the timings but I'm trying to keep VDIMM sub 1.5v (at 1.45v right now) to keep temps down.
> 
> 
> Will fresh install OS again soon and do some benchmarks before any bloat goes on.
> 
> Open to any recommendations on improvements, fairly new at this sort of thing!
> 
> 
> 
> Geno_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ran corecycler for 2 hours and memtest for 2 hours. Going to try and bring VSOC and VDDG IOD down a few notches and try again.
Click to expand...

🤤


----------



## 681933

Geno_ said:


> Ran corecycler for 2 hours and memtest for 2 hours. Going to try and bring VSOC and VDDG IOD down a few notches and try again.


Run Ycruncher for at least 20 iterations.

My old 5900X did just fine at -30 on all cores, because I only used Core Cycler. Then I used ycruncher and it instantly failed, kept doing that until I went down to -15 all core. Then it was stable.

So for my X3D I went to ycruncher instantly. Only two cores are "bad", -19 and -24 respectively, the rest are -30. Compared to what some other peeps have been getting, I'd say I have a pretty good bin for so many cores to be able to do -30 in Ycruncher. The ones that are bad can still do better than my 5900X ever could.



Imprezzion said:


> Corsair Dominator Airflow cooler


Looked at it, not only it will block the airflow to my U12A but it also doesn't tickle my fancy.



tbob22 said:


> Better bin maybe


This is 100% it. The score variations make no sense otherwise. I'm happy with my score, I just care that it does 4.45 GHz all core in games without breaking a sweat in terms of temps. (65-75C)



tbob22 said:


> I've not had any coverage issues with a larger dot right in the center on AM4 at least with Noctua coolers.


I have, with a D15 and U12A. Once, I'll admit, it was perfectly spread. But then the other two times I applied exactly the same amount and there were always coverage issues. Never had any issues with 5 dots so I just do this now for peace of mind.



tbob22 said:


> -.0500 offset


I might try giving my CPU an offset like this, never really considered combining that with CO.

Edit: pretty good results, further -2 or -3C decrease in temps with a +50 score increase in CB R23 (14850). I'll take it. Gonna run Ycruncher now to ensure this didn't cause instability.


----------



## Fab7




----------



## tabascosauz

Anyone else struggling to maintain clocks with the new AGESA 1208 BIOSes (4303 beta/4408 release on Asus)?

On the modded 4006 (AGESA 1206) I'm doing 15100-15200 easily.
-28 all cores
75C
100-105W
~1.15V
4450MHz

On 4303 I can still manage 15000-15100 but clocks are low and heat/power is up.
-28 all cores
80C
110W
~1.18V
~4350MHz

Oddly enough I can't simply compensate with lower PPT and negative Vcore offsets. The Vcore and power do change, but temps are still up and clocks are still down. 

I've swapped between the BIOSes twice each already


----------



## 681933

Fab7 said:


>


Yep, followed their recommendations for AM4 with the NT-H2 paste. Works every time.


----------



## 681933

Crylune said:


> I might try giving my CPU an offset like this


I take it back, clocks have been hurt but especially single core ones. Getting fluctuating 4400-4425 MHz now instead of a solid 4450 MHz on all cores. Not that I didn't expect this, but...


----------



## gupsterg

tabascosauz said:


> Anyone else struggling to maintain clocks with the new AGESA 1208 BIOSes (4303 beta/4408 release on Asus)?
> 
> On the modded 4006 (AGESA 1206) I'm doing 15100-15200 easily.
> -28 all cores
> 75C
> 100-105W
> ~1.15V
> 4450MHz
> 
> On 4303 I can still manage 15000-15100 but clocks are low and heat/power is up.
> -28 all cores
> 80C
> 110W
> ~1.18V
> ~4350MHz
> 
> Oddly enough I can't simply compensate with lower PPT and negative Vcore offsets. The Vcore and power do change, but temps are still up and clocks are still down.
> 
> I've swapped between the BIOSes twice each already


Been too obsessed with perfectly CO to try another UEFI, dunno if my data on WC any use.

Current stable CO profile (attached settings.txt) benched earlier like this for me "back to back":-


Run 1Run 2Run 3Run 4Run 5Run 6Multi151641521015168151981521315234Single148114821480147914821476

Below screenies HWINFO polling interval 500ms, all you see on screen running whilst bench load CPU, OS is not stripped, but not bloated for apps, startup/ background load, etc...


Spoiler






















Differing CPU, CO tweaked The Stilt method and not VID Harmonisation as above CPU, same OS, etc...



Spoiler


----------



## tabascosauz

gupsterg said:


> Been too obsessed with perfectly CO to try another UEFI, dunno if my data on WC any use.
> 
> Current stable CO profile (attached settings.txt) benched earlier like this for me "back to back":-
> 
> 
> Run 1Run 2Run 3Run 4Run 5Run 6Multi151641521015168151981521315234Single148114821480147914821476


It's alright now, I think I managed to get back to where I was previously, 15154/1489. Needed to tweak my limits (110/80/105) and run a bigger offset (-0.05).

Still running warmer and more watts though, and Vcore is still wonky (1.18V at 0 offset, 1.2V at -0.05 lmao). Whatever. AGESA incompetence strikes again

I hate that Asus literally ignores PPT since AGESA 1203. That was the last BIOS where what you set = what you get. Since then it's either a couple watts above set PPT or a couple watts below.


----------



## 1ah1

After 4303 bios, Now i can boot with 3800MHz c14 1900fclk
before the new update i cant use 1900fclk it was a black hole.


----------



## tbob22

Crylune said:


> This is 100% it. The score variations make no sense otherwise. I'm happy with my score, I just care that it does 4.45 GHz all core in games without breaking a sweat in terms of temps. (65-75C)


You might want to see if your chip is clock stretching, in hwinfo the clockspeeds and effective clocks are usually slightly different. I noticed if I undervolt too far the clocks don't seem to change but the effective clocks will drop down to 4.2ghz or further.



Crylune said:


> I have, with a D15 and U12A. Once, I'll admit, it was perfectly spread. But then the other two times I applied exactly the same amount and there were always coverage issues. Never had any issues with 5 dots so I just do this now for peace of mind.


I guess I never even tried the 5 dots, might give it a go next time as Noctua seems to recommend that method for AM4 as well.



Crylune said:


> I might try giving my CPU an offset like this, never really considered combining that with CO.
> Edit: pretty good results, further -2 or -3C decrease in temps with a +50 score increase in CB R23 (14850). I'll take it. Gonna run Ycruncher now to ensure this didn't cause instability.


Yeah, in my case I saw a slight improvement as well. If I go any lower I will start to see a score decrease. It was the same on my 5600x as well.


----------



## 681933

tbob22 said:


> You might want to see if your chip is clock stretching, in hwinfo the clockspeeds and effective clocks are usually slightly different. I noticed if I undervolt too far the clocks don't seem to change but the effective clocks will drop down to 4.2ghz or further.


No clock stretching here.










I have no idea how it's not instantly dying with those voltages I set, btw.


----------



## STAJIEVAR

there is a possibility that I got a non-original mx4. I'll try to replace it with another one.
Tell me, ak620 with pbo2 -30, what temperatures does it reach at the peak in cr23?
P.s well-ventilated PC, 3 fans for intake and exhaust.


----------



## gupsterg

tabascosauz said:


> It's alright now, I think I managed to get back to where I was previously, 15154/1489. Needed to tweak my limits (110/80/105) and run a bigger offset (-0.05).
> 
> Still running warmer and more watts though, and Vcore is still wonky (1.18V at 0 offset, 1.2V at -0.05 lmao). Whatever. AGESA incompetence strikes again
> 
> I hate that Asus literally ignores PPT since AGESA 1203. That was the last BIOS where what you set = what you get. Since then it's either a couple watts above set PPT or a couple watts below.


No problem  .



Crylune said:


> No clock stretching here.
> 
> View attachment 2588260
> 
> 
> I have no idea how it's not instantly dying with those voltages I set, btw.


Is you polling interval high in HWINFO? (default 2000ms, I set 500ms)



Spoiler


----------



## Slawwazzzzz

STAJIEVAR said:


> there is a possibility that I got a non-original mx4. I'll try to replace it with another one.
> Tell me, ak620 with pbo2 -30, what temperatures does it reach at the peak in cr23?
> P.s well-ventilated PC, 3 fans for intake and exhaust.


84 in Deepcool CH510, no case fans, mx4


----------



## 681933

gupsterg said:


> Is you polling interval high in HWINFO? (default 2000ms, I set 500ms)


Haven't messed with it, but I doubt it'd change the results.


----------



## gupsterg

On my 3800/1900 RAM profile set last night:-

tFAW from 24 to 16
tWRRD from 7 to 6
tWRWRSD from 7 to 6
tWRWRDD from 6 to 4
tRDRDSD from 5 to 4
tRDRDDD from 4 to 3



Spoiler















Made no benching results difference.

Any bump in SOC/VDDG/VDDP in my above profile vs previous shares on share same day or two ago, is not due to stability issues. Yesterday I benched with slight bumps of voltages stated, after testing CO profile, prior to above timings tweaks and had improved run to run variance, so kept them.



Crylune said:


> No clock stretching here.
> 
> View attachment 2588260
> 
> 
> I have no idea how it's not instantly dying with those voltages I set, btw.
> 
> 
> 
> gupsterg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is you polling interval high in HWINFO? (default 2000ms, I set 500ms)
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2588264
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crylune said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't messed with it, but I doubt it'd change the results.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I would expect it to show you averages match more to current, if not clock stretching. Your screenie and the one I posted in reply were ~4min runs, yours 2000ms and mine 500ms, my averages are more closer to current.


----------



## 681933

gupsterg said:


> I would expect it to show you averages match more to current, if not clock stretching. Your screenie and the one I posted in reply were ~4min runs, yours 2000ms and mine 500ms, my averages are more closer to current.


You're using Kahru. I'm using TM5 anta777. Kahru is nowhere near as CPU pummeling as it doesn't alternate between different tests with different CPU loads.


----------



## 681933

Just to prove a point...


----------



## gupsterg

Yep did note your using TM5  . I've never used it to be honest, as Kahru had The Stilt's seal of approval I've always stuck to that  .


----------



## 681933

gupsterg said:


> Yep did note your using TM5  . I've never used it to be honest, as Kahru had The Stilt's seal of approval I've always stuck to that  .


TM5 with anta777's configuration is by far the best at catching improper RAM configurations, I've found. Took it 30 minutes while it took Kahru hours to detect an error, so these days I run 20000% Kahru coverage and 20 cycles of TM5 anta777, maybe even an overnight Ycruncher session to be sure that it is 100% stable.

It's also easy for me to know what caused an error while using TM5. If it's an immediate error on test 4, I know it's too little DIMM voltage. If it's an error on the later double digit tests (10 to 15), it's most likely temperature. If it's an error on test 2, sync issue so likely too tight tRFC etc.

Kahru just showing me the error count isn't exactly helpful.

---

Anyways, in my previous reply before this I noted that I'm surprised how things didn't die at 0.900v SoC, 0.850v VDDG and 0.800v VDDP. But of course, WHEA had to ruin the party.

Increased them all by 0.050v and now it's actually rock solid stable at 0.950v SoC, 0.900v VDDG & 0.850v VDDP. Lowered SoC power draw by 50% over stock, and this helped improve all core clock speeds & temperature a bit with my custom limits of 120 PPT / 80 TDC / 110 A.

I wish I would be able to lower CPU PLL on this board to like 1.7 or 1.75 volts to get a bit better temperatures out of this CPU and see how far I can push it before stability becomes a problem, but sadly it's stuck to a minimum of 1.8V. Thanks ASUS, or AMD, whoever enforced this limit.

Think I've perfected my RAM OC and 5800X3D tuning adventure right here. Time to enjoy this thing, and await my beloved 7900 XTX.


----------



## gupsterg

Interesting  , thank you, will give it a try  .


----------



## AXi0M

tabascosauz said:


> Anyone else struggling to maintain clocks with the new AGESA 1208 BIOSes (4303 beta/4408 release on Asus)?
> 
> On the modded 4006 (AGESA 1206) I'm doing 15100-15200 easily.
> -28 all cores
> 75C
> 100-105W
> ~1.15V
> 4450MHz
> 
> On 4303 I can still manage 15000-15100 but clocks are low and heat/power is up.
> -28 all cores
> 80C
> 110W
> ~1.18V
> ~4350MHz
> 
> Oddly enough I can't simply compensate with lower PPT and negative Vcore offsets. The Vcore and power do change, but temps are still up and clocks are still down.
> 
> I've swapped between the BIOSes twice each already


4408 is still AGESA 1.2.0.7 on PRIME X570-PRO is it 1.2.0.8 for the other asus bios?


----------



## 681933

tabascosauz said:


> Anyone else struggling to maintain clocks with the new AGESA 1208 BIOSes (4303 beta/4408 release on Asus)?
> 
> On the modded 4006 (AGESA 1206) I'm doing 15100-15200 easily.
> -28 all cores
> 75C
> 100-105W
> ~1.15V
> 4450MHz
> 
> On 4303 I can still manage 15000-15100 but clocks are low and heat/power is up.
> -28 all cores
> 80C
> 110W
> ~1.18V
> ~4350MHz
> 
> Oddly enough I can't simply compensate with lower PPT and negative Vcore offsets. The Vcore and power do change, but temps are still up and clocks are still down.
> 
> I've swapped between the BIOSes twice each already


So... I assume I should avoid AGESA 1.2.0.8 *if* my B550-F gets it. My 14800 CB R23 score is below average as it is lol, at least my 1490 single core is fine.


----------



## tabascosauz

AXi0M said:


> 4408 is still AGESA 1.2.0.7 on PRIME X570-PRO is it 1.2.0.8 for the other asus bios?


i think you're right, 4408 still using old SMU for Vermeer and Cezanne while 4303 is updated

















looking back, 1208 on Impact basically behaved exactly like 1207 on Unify-X. Inexplicably increased power draw and Vcore for less performance. 1208 rumored to be mainly about patching vulnerabilities, so makes sense performance-wise



Crylune said:


> So... I assume I should avoid AGESA 1.2.0.8 *if* my B550-F gets it. My 14800 CB R23 score is below average as it is lol, at least my 1490 single core is fine.


performance doesn't look too different so I'm not sure why you would use 1207 yet avoid 1208, I stayed on 4006 (1206) until now

in the end I got the clocks back anyway, it just runs hotter than it should that's all


----------



## 681933

tabascosauz said:


> it just runs hotter than it should that's all


Yes, and considering mine is hotter than usual already, I think I'll pass on it. No real benefits to it.

Is there a difference between 1.2.0.6 and 1.2.0.7 for the X3D I should be aware of?


----------



## tabascosauz

Crylune said:


> Yes, and considering mine is hotter than usual already, I think I'll pass on it. No real benefits to it.
> 
> Is there a difference between 1.2.0.6 and 1.2.0.7 for the X3D I should be aware of?


Lots of ppl lose perf for some reason or another going to 1207 on any Zen 3

ymmv

1206 lacks fTPM fix


----------



## 681933

tabascosauz said:


> Lots of ppl lose perf for some reason or another going to 1207 on any Zen 3
> 
> ymmv
> 
> 1206 lacks fTPM fix


That could explain some things. This BIOS has CO for the X3D and fixes fTPM which irritated me, so I'll stay.


----------



## tabascosauz

Crylune said:


> That could explain some things. This BIOS has CO for the X3D and fixes fTPM which irritated me, so I'll stay.


@Reous probably has a modded 1206 BIOS somewhere for Strix-F. It's the only reason I was on bios 4006 (dunno the number for 1206 on B550). 

Modded 1206 exposes PBO controls under AMD OC (traditionally where you only want to set CO). New Asus BIOS exposes PBO under main Tweaker page (traditionally where you should set everything that isn't CO). 

wouldnt be surprised if that has something to do with the PPT inaccuracy


----------



## Nd4spdvn

I am staying on Agesa 1206b for the reasons discussed above as 1207 is giving the CPU an unnecessary higher voltage overall so it performs worse or requires voltage offsets which are hidden for this CPU in my Giga BIOS. I have disabled fTPM though until the next major Win11 feature update which will require TPM so I am avoiding the fTPM issues this way and keep the performance at its peak.


----------



## 681933

Nd4spdvn said:


> voltage offsets which are hidden for this CPU in my Giga BIOS


This combined with getting CO in the BIOS, kinda glad I went Asus... My previous Gigabyte boards all died.


----------



## STAJIEVAR

I have an asus prime x570-p, I updated the bios to 4408 and the pbo setting appeared there.
should i go back to agesa 1.2.6b?


----------



## Nd4spdvn

Crylune said:


> This combined with getting CO in the BIOS, kinda glad I went Asus... My previous Gigabyte boards all died.


Mine goes strong since MArch last year, but truth be told the board does offer these offsets on other AMD CPUs, I used them with no issues on my previous 5900X CPU. And the board offers other useful voltages too which are missing on other well "established" boards/names like the 1.8V PLL voltage, another 1.8V A_VDDxxx voltage (SOC 1.8V voltage rail is my understanding), DRAM VTT termination and others. Plus it overclocked my 4 x SR dimms to tRCDRD 14 at 3800 with not much fuss, so overall I cannot really complain about this little B550 Aorus Pro V2 coming at 180 euro VAT included.


----------



## gupsterg

@Crylune

I was just pondering your performance/CO profile. I would assume you have tried other curves, but perhaps you would be open to try the VID harmonisation method I used?


----------



## 681933

Nd4spdvn said:


> Mine goes strong since MArch last year, but truth be told the board does offer these offsets on other AMD CPUs, I used them with no issues on my previous 5900X CPU. And the board offers other useful voltages too which are missing on other well "established" boards/names like the 1.8V PLL voltage, another 1.8V A_VDDxxx voltage (SOC 1.8V voltage rail is my understanding), DRAM VTT termination and others. Plus it overclocked my 4 x SR dimms to tRCDRD 14 at 3800 with not much fuss, so overall I cannot really complain about this little B550 Aorus Pro V2 coming at 180 euro VAT included.


That's the board I had. First one corrupted its own BIOS while attempting DRAM OC. Don't ask me how that happened because I have no idea.

Second one had its socket mounting snap while installing my CPU, so it's essentially DOA.

Meanwhile, swapped 4 CPUs on this board, reset CMOS 100 times after failed DRAM OC, and had no issues. So I don't think I'll touch Gigabyte boards again. Good that it works for you.


----------



## 681933

gupsterg said:


> @Crylune
> 
> I was just pondering your performance/CO profile. I would assume you have tried other curves, but perhaps you would be open to try the VID harmonisation method I used?


I'm good, not after squeezing every last bit out of this thing.


----------



## Fab7

Crylune said:


> Yep, followed their recommendations for AM4 with the NT-H2 paste. Works every time.


Same here with same paste


----------



## alexcheveau

Hey guys what's up? Just installed my 5800x3d, configured -30 all cores and my ram timmings that I was using with my old 5900x.
The CPU is stable on my Holly Trinity of Hell Test: Prime95, Y-Cruncher and Limpack.
Prime95 to find specific core instability 
Y-Cruncher to find instability in general, ram soc cpu etc
Linpack can push my thermals and wattage to the roof, reached 90c it's an amazing test

The cooler is a NH-D15
So I'm stable and my CB23 is 14800 but some ppl getting 15200 ish. Also I can't get the 4450 effective multcore clock
Can you guys give me some tips to get there? thanks !!!


----------



## STAJIEVAR

alexcheveau said:


> Hey guys what's up? Just installed my 5800x3d, configured -30 all cores and my ram timmings that I was using with my old 5900x.
> The CPU is stable on my Holly Trinity of Hell Test: Prime95, Y-Cruncher and Limpack.
> Prime95 to find specific core instability
> Y-Cruncher to find instability in general, ram soc cpu etc
> Linpack can push my thermals and wattage to the roof, reached 90c it's an amazing test
> 
> The cooler is a NH-D15
> So I'm stable and my CB23 is 14800 but some ppl getting 15200 ish. Also I can't get the 4450 effective multcore clock
> Can you guys give me some tips to get there? thanks !!!
> 
> View attachment 2588316
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2588317


I have ak620 and pbo2 -30, in cr23 I dial 14300, maybe I came across not the original thermal paste


----------



## Frosted racquet

@alexcheveau @STAJIEVAR Which AGESA versions are you using, 1206 or 1207+?


----------



## STAJIEVAR

Frosted racquet said:


> @alexcheveau @STAJIEVAR Which AGESA versions are you using, 1206 or 1207+


1.2.0.7 asus prime x570-p last update bios (4408)


----------



## alexcheveau

Frosted racquet said:


> @alexcheveau @STAJIEVAR Which AGESA versions are you using, 1206 or 1207+?


1207


----------



## Frosted racquet

Try reverting to 1206b/c, most users reported higher voltages and temps with 1207. If you don't use fTPM or experience the fTPM stutter I see no reason to use 1207


----------



## Fab7

With MSI boards agesa 1207 allows Combo Strike .


----------



## Imprezzion

Same with CO in BIOS on ASUS. I use 1.2.0.7 on the Strix B550-A and voltage is normal with -30 CO (1.143-1.188v depending on the load) and temps are fine. My scores are a bit low tho as well. Clean install of W11 Pro 22H2 and latest AMD chipset drivers manually installed from AMD site not ASUS. They are a few versions behind. 

I get around 15040-15100 in R23 depending on how much background stuff I have open. Then again, game performance is very strong and I don't notice any "problems" so chasing 100 points in a synthetic bench. Nah.


----------



## Frosted racquet

Yes, but if it lowers performance just use PBO2 tuner


----------



## tbob22

Crylune said:


> Just to prove a point...


I only really noticed any clock stretching when undervolting and at heavier loads, closer to 120w or so.


----------



## alexcheveau

Imprezzion said:


> Same with CO in BIOS on ASUS. I use 1.2.0.7 on the Strix B550-A and voltage is normal with -30 CO (1.143-1.188v depending on the load) and temps are fine. My scores are a bit low tho as well. Clean install of W11 Pro 22H2 and latest AMD chipset drivers manually installed from AMD site not ASUS. They are a few versions behind.
> 
> I get around 15040-15100 in R23 depending on how much background stuff I have open. Then again, game performance is very strong and I don't notice any "problems" so chasing 100 points in a synthetic bench. Nah.


CB23 give me 14800 with 1,188v and 80c
I think this dif if prob about thermals cause I'm on Air Cooling and it's crazy hot here now (30c ambient)


----------



## Imprezzion

Frosted racquet said:


> Yes, but if it lowers performance just use PBO2 tuner


I did before ASUS released this BIOS, exact same, voltage, clocks, temps and scores. Zero difference.


----------



## Frosted racquet

The reply was meant in general, not as a reply to your case


----------



## STAJIEVAR

what is the peak voltage per core at pbo2 -30?
My 1.144 peak.


----------



## Imprezzion

I adjusted some stuff here and there, and I used the Balanced LowPower custom power profile. This is -30 BIOS CO with Ultimate LowPower profile and 3600C14 RAM with 1800 FCLK with very low vSOC and VDDG/VDDP voltages to allow as much as possible power and temp headroom to the CPU.


----------



## chrisz5z

alexcheveau said:


> Hey guys what's up? Just installed my 5800x3d, configured -30 all cores and my ram timmings that I was using with my old 5900x.
> The CPU is stable on my Holly Trinity of Hell Test: Prime95, Y-Cruncher and Limpack.
> Prime95 to find specific core instability
> Y-Cruncher to find instability in general, ram soc cpu etc
> Linpack can push my thermals and wattage to the roof, reached 90c it's an amazing test
> 
> The cooler is a NH-D15
> So I'm stable and my CB23 is 14800 but some ppl getting 15200 ish. Also I can't get the 4450 effective multcore clock
> Can you guys give me some tips to get there? thanks !!!
> 
> View attachment 2588316
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2588317


Looks like you're thermally limited. I originally had a Dark Rock Pro 4 cooler, which is comparable to your NH-D15, and got the same result. Now with a Arctic Freezer II 420, it boosts to 4.449 all core.

Changing to AGESA 1206 may help lower temps as well.


----------



## 681933

Yup, nothing wrong there. If you want better scores, get better cooling. Note that this won't really affect gaming performance, like at all. Only synthetics. In games, you'll still be getting 4.45 GHz all core depending on the game. I'm happy with my 14800 MT / 1490 ST under a NH-U12A, don't feel like swapping to an AIO for a few hundred points.


----------



## Fab7

AGESA ComboAm4v2PI 1.2.0.7.

All stock but XMP + Kombo Strike @ 2

( Kombo Strike @ 3 seems stable but it's not , crashed with an in-game bench )

Cooler is Noctua NH-D15S @600 RPM


----------



## nx1987

Crylune said:


> Yup, nothing wrong there. If you want better scores, get better cooling. Note that this won't really affect gaming performance, like at all. Only synthetics. In games, you'll still be getting 4.45 GHz all core depending on the game. I'm happy with my 14800 MT / 1490 ST under a NH-U12A, don't feel like swapping to an AIO for a few hundred points.


And you dont have Problem with Windows 11? Loss Performance? Better than Windows 10? I mean for gaming?


----------



## 681933

nx1987 said:


> And you dont have Problem with Windows 11? Loss Performance? Better than Windows 10? I mean for gaming?


Windows 11 22H2 is faster than any build of Windows 10 after Redstone (1511) due to the first kernel optimizations in years. Those haven't been done since Windows 8. On 10, they just packed code on top of code on the kernel after Redstone without optimizing anything.

So yes, Windows 11 is noticeably faster for me in all scenarios.


----------



## Blameless

I can't tell the difference in performance between stripped down builds of Windows 10, Windows 11 (22H2), Server 2016, or Server 2022, on my 5800X3D using as close to the same power profile as I can make on each. The consumer versions of Windows do need more stripping down though.


----------



## 681933

I see nothing that needs to be stripped down.

22H2 in particular feels noticeably snappier than 10 for me, 11 21H2 is nothing special.


----------



## tabascosauz

STAJIEVAR said:


> what is the peak voltage per core at pbo2 -30?
> My 1.144 peak.


Different for everyone's board, CPU and BIOS

On 1206 was about 1.15V, on 1208 is about 1.18-1.2V. 



nx1987 said:


> And you dont have Problem with Windows 11? Loss Performance? Better than Windows 10? I mean for gaming?


Windows 11 generally "looks" crappier (clocks CPU lower in games) but it doesn't directly translate to game performance. If it hurts performance significantly enough to notice, you either didn't clean install and upgraded over garbage from Win 10 install, or have specific Thread Director bugs on 12th/13th gen Intel.

If you only cared about the clocks, then my 5900X would have tanked in Win 11 (much lower CPU game clocks, lower bench clocks/scores, very poor scheduling, load split between CCDs). In reality the differences were negligible in all games, even more CPU-bound ones. These days I would only pick Win 10 for pure benchmarking, scores are still better.

That said, there_ is_ an ongoing bug with 2CCD performance in Windows 11 right now, at least on Ryzen 7000


----------



## Blameless

Crylune said:


> I see nothing that needs to be stripped down.


It's a subjective thing. If I'm not using it, I don't want it to be there. If there is a better 3rd party alternative, I want the first party feature gone.



Crylune said:


> 22H2 in particular feels noticeably snappier than 10 for me, 11 21H2 is nothing special.


I can't feel any difference at all in basic responsiveness...generally haven't been able to on any SSD equipped system that didn't have major configuration issues.


----------



## Imprezzion

W11 Pro 22H2 clean install vs W11 Ghost Spectre custom stripped makes almost zero difference in games. It's just annoying to deal with the stripped out parts if you ever need one of them (like Microsoft store). I tried both. And yes, benchmarks do score higher in Ghost Spectre, but the difference in gaming is so small (literally 1 FPS in Division 2 benchmark for example 174 vs 175) that it isn't worth it for me.

I'm running it off a 980 Pro 1TB in the gen 4 slot.

I like W11. It's fresh looking and very smooth. W10 is getting a bit stale.


----------



## 681933

Imprezzion said:


> W11 Ghost Spectre custom stripped


Almost puked when I read that


----------



## the_aeon

setting CO to -30 allcores, can it cause stuttering in games?


----------



## alexcheveau

Frikencio said:


> This CPU thermal is wierd.


I think this is bc of the cache. It's made of silicon on top of the cpu, and silicon is not a good thermal conductor so the heat gets trapped. Source: voices in my head



chrisz5z said:


> Looks like you're thermally limited. I originally had a Dark Rock Pro 4 cooler, which is comparable to your NH-D15, and got the same result. Now with a Arctic Freezer II 420, it boosts to 4.449 all core.
> 
> Changing to AGESA 1206 may help lower temps as well.


Yeah, can't agree more after doing some research. 



Crylune said:


> Yup, nothing wrong there. If you want better scores, get better cooling. Note that this won't really affect gaming performance, like at all. Only synthetics. In games, you'll still be getting 4.45 GHz all core depending on the game. I'm happy with my 14800 MT / 1490 ST under a NH-U12A, don't feel like swapping to an AIO for a few hundred points.


Yeah can't agree more, the game performance is amazing not worth the trouble to get +1% on synthetics 


Thank you guys


----------



## 681933

alexcheveau said:


> Source: voices in my head


It's actually true, this CPU is hella hard to cool due to the concentrated 105W TDP on one CCD and also the silicon spacers above the cores. But it manages itself well.


----------



## StevieRay2

the_aeon said:


> setting CO to -30 allcores, can it cause stuttering in games?


Maybe if it's unstable. I've been -30CO for a while and never noticed any game stutter in the dozen or so I usually play


----------



## STAJIEVAR

in general, I changed the thermal paste and got the following result in CR 3 (use pbo2 -30), changed it to a cryonout thermal grizzly.
RDR2 before the replacement, the peak was 80+, after 68 degrees, cr23 without pbo2 immediately focus on temperature goes


----------



## Imprezzion

STAJIEVAR said:


> in general, I changed the thermal paste and got the following result in CR 3 (use pbo2 -30), changed it to a cryonout thermal grizzly.
> RDR2 before the replacement, the peak was 80+, after 68 degrees, cr23 without pbo2 immediately focus on temperature goes
> View attachment 2588631


That score is quite terrible lol. I built a completely stock 5800X3D with 3200 16-18-18 RAM on a NZXT N7 B550 board and that runs 144xx points with all core clocks around 4250-4267.


----------



## STAJIEVAR

I found what the problem is, my xmp profile has flown
p.s ram 3200 16-18-18-38


----------



## 681933

STAJIEVAR said:


> I found what the problem is, my xmp profile has flown
> p.s ram 3200 16-18-18-38
> View attachment 2588640


Now that looks much more like what I'd expect.


----------



## N2Gaming

STAJIEVAR said:


> I found what the problem is, my xmp profile has flown
> p.s ram 3200 16-18-18-38
> View attachment 2588640


Is that the default speeds of your ram or did you bump it up to 3600 cas 16?


----------



## DiceAir

First of I'm from South africa and here is the best deal on a 5800x3d

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D 8-Core 3.4GHz CPU Processor | Buy Online in South Africa | takealot.com + free shipping

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D AM4 CPU (No HS/Fan) (titan-ice.co.za)

Second link is a store close to me.


I don't know if it's worth upgrading to 5800x3d from my 5800x. i have the following specs

Asrock steel legend b550
3600mhz g.skill ripjaw-v overclocked to 3733cl16 and other timings down to about 55ns latency
5800x (overclocked to 4850-4950 boost using PBO2 and curve optimizer) temps is under 75C in demanding games
Fractal design s36 blackout edition cooler top as exhaust
Palit 3080ti gamerock undervolted to 1860 0.925v temps is max 70C in the most demanding games I play in 4k 1440p etc.
Asus rog pg279q 1440p @ 165hz
1 HDD, 1x NVME SSD, few 2.5" SSD
Phanteks enthoo pro modified with 3 fans +-70cfm fans front, 1x arctic p12 rear and 70cfm fan bottom.

On my card I do get clock speed drop when doing upscaling to 4k to test due to power limit and nothing I do can solve that as the card for some reason doesn't pull more than 380-400w.
Now my brother bought the 5800x3d (deepcool ag620 cooler temps under 60c gaming) and running a 3080ti galax hof that is much better than my card can boost to 1860-1875 without getting power limited due to the card actually allowing 450w max and never reaching that because of undervolting.

I also used pbo2 tuner to do the undervolt on that 5800x3d and it could handle -30 all core with boost going up to 4450mhz didn't spend more time like my 5800x where I even tuned the limits etc to get it to clock higher.

For me playing when playing at 1440p I rarely hit my power limit on my gpu and only in very limit scenarios I will hit power limit.


----------



## th3illusiveman

DiceAir said:


> First of I'm from South africa and here is the best deal on a 5800x3d
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D 8-Core 3.4GHz CPU Processor | Buy Online in South Africa | takealot.com
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D AM4 CPU (No HS/Fan) (titan-ice.co.za)
> 
> Second link is a store close to me although shipping is free I can just go and pick it up
> 
> 
> I don't know if it's worth upgrading to 5800x3d from my 5800x. i have the following specs
> 
> Asrock steel legend b550
> 3600mhz g.skill ripjaw-v overclocked to 3733cl16 and other timings down to about 55ns latency
> 5800x (overclocked to 4850-4950 boost using PBO2 and curve optimizer) temps is under 75C in demanding games
> Fractal design s36 blackout edition cooler top as exhaust
> Palit 3080ti gamerock undervolted to 1860 0.925v temps is max 70C in the most demanding games I play in 4k 1440p etc.
> Asus rog pg279q 1440p @ 165hz
> 1 HDD, 1x NVME SSD, few 2.5" SSD
> Phanteks enthoo pro modified with 3 fans +-70cfm fans front, 1x arctic p12 rear and 70cfm fan bottom.
> 
> On my card I do get clock speed drop when doing upscaling to 4k to test due to power limit and nothing I do can solve that as the card for some reason doesn't pull more than 380-400w.
> Now my brother bought the 5800x3d (deepcool ag620 cooler temps under 60c gaming) and running a 3080ti galax hof that is much better than my card can boost to 1860-1875 without getting power limited due to the card actually allowing 450w max and never reaching that because of undervolting.
> 
> I also used pbo2 tuner to do the undervolt on that 5800x3d and it could handle -30 all core with boost going up to 4450mhz didn't spend more time like my 5800x where I even tuned the limits etc to get it to clock higher.
> 
> For me playing when playing at 1440p I rarely hit my power limit on my gpu and only in very limit scenarios I will hit power limit.


Upgrade when you get a next gen GPU (4090 or next gen 5080 etc) - 5800x is enough for a 3080ti at 1440p.


----------



## DiceAir

th3illusiveman said:


> Upgrade when you get a next gen GPU (4090 or next gen 5080 etc) - 5800x is enough for a 3080ti at 1440p.



the big problem is I can't really compare results because my chip is running 4800-4950 and most cases closer to 4900 on some cores or all cores but I think a bit higher than most videos I've seen so might be so close not worth spending my time and money on the chip.


----------



## th3illusiveman

DiceAir said:


> the big problem is I can't really compare results because my chip is running 4800-4950 and most cases closer to 4900 on some cores or all cores but I think a bit higher than most videos I've seen so might be so close not worth spending my time and money on the chip.


You have a great setup and fast RAM. the X3D might give you a boost in a game or two but only you can choose if it's worth it or not. Might be better off putting that money into your AM5 piggy bank. Heck, maybe intels next gen CPUs will take your attention and you'd have some extra coin saved if that happens. Beauty of PCs is that if you wait abit, something faster is always around the corner.


----------



## STAJIEVAR

N2Gaming said:


> Is that the default speeds of your ram or did you bump it up to 3600 cas 16?


default speed is 2133, and with xmp profile 3200, memory ripjaws g.skill.
I wanted to buy 3600 g.skill but for some reason the system did not start with this profile, it only started on 3400


----------



## Lepa

This is what I've currently got running and it seems stable. Crucial Ballistix Sport, micron E-die. I've never OC'd memory before and these settings were straight out of DRAM calculator with the exception of me raising freq to 3800 from 3600. Do the settings look ok? And if and what timings should I try tightening?


----------



## pfinch

any idea why my 5800x3d is only boosting to 5543/5545 and not 5550? Measured with 800ms HWINFO Snapshot-Mode.
ST CB32 = 1509
MP CB32= 15403

Win11 22h2, CO allcore -30, 114-75-115, CrosshairVIII Hero Wifi BIOS 4303

No difference in fMax between allcore CO 0 to -30


----------



## icehotshot

pfinch said:


> any idea why my 5800x3d is only boosting to 5543/5545 and not 5550? Measured with 800ms HWINFO Snapshot-Mode.
> ST CB32 = 1509
> MP CB32= 15403
> 
> Win11 22h2, CO allcore -30, 114-75-115, CrosshairVIII Hero Wifi BIOS 4303
> 
> No difference in fMax between allcore CO 0 to -30


If you are getting those scores in Cinebench R23 @ CO -30, then it seems like you have pretty much maxed out your chip in regards to that benchmark. Those are very good scores from what I've seen.

With my chip I'm around 1500 ST and 15260 multi.

I would imagine the only way to get your clocks any higher would be to raise the BCLK.


----------



## Imprezzion

Lepa said:


> This is what I've currently got running and it seems stable. Crucial Ballistix Sport, micron E-die. I've never OC'd memory before and these settings were straight out of DRAM calculator with the exception of me raising freq to 3800 from 3600. Do the settings look ok? And if and what timings should I try tightening?


Not sure if Micron E can even handle this but try tWR 12 tRTP 6 or at least 16/8, tWTR_L 6 or 4, tFAW 16, start with that. It might need a but more vDIMM to do it. 1.36 is very low for said timings. Might need 1.4 ish. And ofcourse, if you wanna jump into that rabbit hole, 1T GDM Off. Requires a LOT of tweaking and testing for minimal gains but still. I'm 20h deep into tweaking and testing 1T GDM Off on 3933C15 and it still barely boots to Windows so...


----------



## N2Gaming

Oh ok, well that’s a bummer. At least you got it working at 3200 XMP.


----------



## Lobstar

I picked one of these up on black Friday. After everyone talked about how much this smashed the 5950x I'm kind of disappointed. Games seem about the same, everything else seems a little worse. Not bad for half the price though.


----------



## N2Gaming

you going back to the 5950X


Lobstar said:


> I picked one of these up on black Friday. After everyone talked about how much this smashed the 5950x I'm kind of disappointed. Games seem about the same, everything else seems a little worse. Not bad for half the price though.


?


----------



## Tangenius

Lobstar said:


> I picked one of these up on black Friday. After everyone talked about how much this smashed the 5950x I'm kind of disappointed. Games seem about the same, everything else seems a little worse. Not bad for half the price though.


Get a better gpu haha


----------



## Owterspace

Tangenius said:


> Get a better gpu haha


If all you do is just game then X3D is good. For everything else, compared to 5900X it is slow.. buying one effectively turns your rig into either a Dell or a console. They gave us CO.. gee thanks.. I guess. Big difference between 4450 and 5150.


----------



## 681933

Owterspace said:


> If all you do is just game then X3D is good. For everything else, compared to 5900X it is slow.. buying one effectively turns your rig into either a Dell or a console. They gave us CO.. gee thanks.. I guess. Big difference between 4450 and 5150.


Not in my experience, 5800X3D is snappier in everything that I do. Maybe not brute force performance, but using it feels much more pleasant than using my 5900X which reached even 5.25 on some cores. And games are very smooth.

Also, the games that I do play saw at least a 20 fps improvement in average FPS and MUCH better lows. All while the CPU is consuming less power, which is good for my PSU as I will get a 4090 soon after being disappointed with the 7900 XTX.


----------



## Lobstar

Tangenius said:


> Get a better gpu haha


Yikes, you OK?


----------



## frankie90

Owterspace said:


> … effectively turns your rig into either a Dell or a console.


What.


----------



## Owterspace

Lol sorry. I don’t game at high fps so to me all of my Zen3 parts are fine. I have B-Die that I run tight, so everything is snappy 👍🏻


----------



## tabascosauz

frankie90 said:


> What.


I think he's making a point about the lack of OC. And if you need the cores + clocks for other all-core applications, 5800X3D gets stomped on by pretty much every CPU available today. On which point he's completely right, but I don't think that's a concern for most owners 

5800X3D really isn't a slam dunk though. It's easy to heap praise on it for being "best gaming CPU" but it _really_ depends on what games you actually play and the rest of your hardware, and not everyone is super discerning about frame consistency or lows. DCS is a good example - as I learned the hard way. There was very little discussion on it when I bought mine; extrapolating non-VR DCS performance from DCS VR gains and MSFS gains you will come to the logical conclusion that it's a worthwhile upgrade - unfortunately, it's just not true.

I'm very happy with mine because several other games do benefit massively, but that doesn't mean it always lives up to the hype. Also, the 400-800MHz Fmax difference vs. 5800X/5900X/5950X can definitely be felt at times (just not all the time) - Windows 11 can close the gap a bit since it remains pretty snappy when it's loaded down with stuff.


----------



## frankie90

tabascosauz said:


> I think he's making a point about the lack of OC. And if you need the cores + clocks for other all-core applications, 5800X3D gets stomped on by pretty much every CPU available today. On which point he's completely right, but I don't think that's a concern for most owners
> 
> 5800X3D really isn't a slam dunk though. It's easy to heap praise on it for being "best gaming CPU" but it _really_ depends on what games you actually play and the rest of your hardware, and not everyone is super discerning about frame consistency or lows. DCS is a good example - as I learned the hard way. There was very little discussion on it when I bought mine; extrapolating non-VR DCS performance from DCS VR gains and MSFS gains you will come to the logical conclusion that it's a worthwhile upgrade - unfortunately, it's just not true.
> 
> I'm very happy with mine because several other games do benefit massively, but that doesn't mean it always lives up to the hype. Also, the 400-800MHz Fmax difference vs. 5800X/5900X/5950X can definitely be felt at times (just not all the time) - Windows 11 can close the gap a bit since it remains pretty snappy when it's loaded down with stuff.


I think most of us in the 200+ pages of this thread know the pros and cons of this CPU. A lot of us didn’t jump on the hype train, but researched and read the entirety of this thread, and made an informed decision. It’s evident in *numerous* synthetics and gaming benchmarks, and reviews, where its strengths are at. It’s also repeatedly mentioned in this thread by those of us who came from a 5900X/5950X, or other AM4 CPU.

Regardless of any of that, I was simply amused by “turning into a Dell or console.” Totally get they were trying to make a point, but it was an overly obnoxious one. I own an Xbox Series X, and use a Dell laptop for work - the 5800X3D isn’t either of those.


----------



## Owterspace

Crylune said:


> Not in my experience, 5800X3D is snappier in everything that I do


Yeah that's pretty weird I would say. Its not a terrible CPU by any stretch, its just not as fast as its brothers when it comes to everyday stuff. If you are ok with its performance, that's great! It is a good CPU. I am not bashing on it, I was just saying it gets its ass handed to it when its not playing games. Not a big deal, its just the way it is.


----------



## 681933

Owterspace said:


> Yeah that's pretty weird I would say. Its not a terrible CPU by any stretch, its just not as fast as its brothers when it comes to everyday stuff. If you are ok with its performance, that's great! It is a good CPU. I am not bashing on it, I was just saying it gets its ass handed to it when its not playing games. Not a big deal, its just the way it is.


When it comes to my every day stuff, the 5800X3D remains incredibly snappy compared to my previous 5150 fMax 5900X, and I am not sure why, but I am 101% certain it's due to the single 8-core CCD compared to dual 6-core CCDs on the 5900X. That is my only explanation for why everything feels so snappy now, despite me thinking it would be sluggish - because the 5900X WAS sluggish when locked to under 4.5 GHz. This one just, isn't. It's extremely snappy and 11 22H2 amplifies that.

It's the whole reason I asked a few pages back if the 5800X3D is snappy during every day use. I was worried that I would feel the same sluggishness of my 5900X at 4.5 GHz with this CPU which is locked to that frequency. But I didn't, I felt the exact opposite. A welcome surprise.

And yeah, I know it gets trounced on in synthetics and anything that isn't games. I bought it and went away from a 5900X knowing that full well, and for a reason.

This is a gaming rig. It started as a 6 core gaming rig, then I went bananas with the high core count CPUs because it felt nice to own them, at the detriment of my gaming performance and my wallet.

I never even used the 12 cores on my 5900X to their fullest potential. Only benchmarked stuff. This CPU for me does all the little productivity I need such as the ocassional video editing or image upscaling, and it does it really well. And it shines in the games I play. It will be the only AM4 CPU to get the most out of my future 4090 that is for sure. The 5900X / 5950X just *won't.*

The power draw of this CPU is another factor. A measly 60W in games after tuning. That will allow the 4090 to stretch its legs on my 750W PSU. Still a CPU bottleneck, but really, what isn't bottlenecking the 4090 at this point. GPUs went from not being enough for modern CPUs to slamdunking them in one generation, lol.


----------



## Owterspace

All of my Zen 3 parts are snappy. 5600X boosting to 4850, X3D.. doing its thing, 5900X boosting to 5150. They all fine to me. My 5600X has the strongest IMC out of the 3, followed by X3D. I am not worried about cooling, FC140 is 1000 grams of fun in the sun, plus fans.. and all sitting in a Torrent Compact.

Edit:

Reading some of the comments, I didn't meant to ruffle any feathers. Don't take it personally, just my observations. This is just a hobby for me. A toy. And I like to play with like minded individuals. Intel, AMD, Nvidia.. don't care, as long as its the fastest when I bought it.


----------



## 681933

Of course they are, compared to Zen 2 especially. I'm just saying my 5900X limited to the same frequency as the 5800X3D did not feel as snappy. At all.


----------



## tabascosauz

Crylune said:


> When it comes to my every day stuff, the 5800X3D remains incredibly snappy compared to my previous 5150 fMax 5900X, and I am not sure why, but I am 101% certain it's due to the single 8-core CCD compared to dual 6-core CCDs on the 5900X. That is my only explanation for why everything feels so snappy now, despite me thinking it would be sluggish - because the 5900X WAS sluggish when locked to under 4.5 GHz. This one just, isn't. It's extremely snappy and 11 22H2 amplifies that.
> 
> It's the whole reason I asked a few pages back if the 5800X3D is snappy during every day use. I was worried that I would feel the same sluggishness of my 5900X at 4.5 GHz with this CPU which is locked to that frequency. But I didn't, I felt the exact opposite. A welcome surprise.


I think 21H2/22H2 did offer significant improvements in speed and responsiveness. Earlier builds of Win 11 were often quite sluggish and had serious responsiveness problems on 5900X. Judging from HWinfo monitoring I just could never figure out whether CPPC was just not boosting as much or boosting on the wrong cores, Win 11 looked very lazy. But in recent months' builds things have improved massively even on the 5900X.

You would have needed a second monitor running HWInfo all the time to get some good monitoring data, but on mine Windows almost exclusively used Core 7. For just about 95% of ST tasks, I'd say. I'd be curious if you saw the same behaviour. It was smart enough to use the correct cores for any benchmarks, however, but not in games.

Thing is, the scheduling problems have been around for far longer than most people give it credit for, I saw it since day 1 on Win 11 (back when people were still trying to figure out the L3 cache problem). The difference was huge - Win 10 treated it like a 6-core for everything that mattered, which was a very good thing.


----------



## frankie90

Owterspace said:


> All of my Zen 3 parts are snappy. 5600X boosting to 4850, X3D.. doing its thing, 5900X boosting to 5150. They all fine to me. My 5600X has the strongest IMC out of the 3, followed by X3D. I am not worried about cooling, FC140 is 1000 grams of fun in the sun, plus fans.. and all sitting in a Torrent Compact.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Reading some of the comments, I didn't meant to ruffle any feathers. Don't take it personally, just my observations. This is just a hobby for me. A toy. And I like to play with like minded individuals. Intel, AMD, Nvidia.. don't care, as long as its the fastest when I bought it.


No ruffled feathers here! But when anyone makes hyperbole on the internet or through text, I think it’s fair to expect someone to call it out.

Regardless, no harm, no foul. I’m with you in that boat; My previous system was an Intel based one, and I loved it at the time, no brand warring here. I think most of us are here for the same reason, minus a troll here and there.


----------



## AXi0M

tabascosauz said:


> I think he's making a point about the lack of OC. And if you need the cores + clocks for other all-core applications, 5800X3D gets stomped on by pretty much every CPU available today. On which point he's completely right, but I don't think that's a concern for most owners
> 
> 5800X3D really isn't a slam dunk though. It's easy to heap praise on it for being "best gaming CPU" but it _really_ depends on what games you actually play and the rest of your hardware, and not everyone is super discerning about frame consistency or lows. DCS is a good example - as I learned the hard way. There was very little discussion on it when I bought mine; extrapolating non-VR DCS performance from DCS VR gains and MSFS gains you will come to the logical conclusion that it's a worthwhile upgrade - unfortunately, it's just not true.
> 
> I'm very happy with mine because several other games do benefit massively, but that doesn't mean it always lives up to the hype. Also, the 400-800MHz Fmax difference vs. 5800X/5900X/5950X can definitely be felt at times (just not all the time) - Windows 11 can close the gap a bit since it remains pretty snappy when it's loaded down with stuff.


I agree that the lack of OC iz disappointing, but considering this cpu usually matches or in some cases beats other cpu's that are running 1+Ghz faster (rocketlake/ryzen 7000) shows that memory management is more important than raw clock speeds. I'm very curious how the 3D cache will hold performance in the long run. Hopefully we have another i72600k on our hands, meaning it will be competitive for a long time even if it isn't the "best".


----------



## simonabamber

How are people adjusting PPT, EDC etc on the C8 dark hero? I have the PBO bios but these options are stuck at “auto” for me.


----------



## Owterspace

Crylune said:


> I'm just saying my 5900X limited to the same frequency as the 5800X3D did not feel as snappy. At all.


Why would you limit your 5900X to 4500 though? Still have 650MHz to go. You won’t convince me that X3D is the snappier chip at the desktop, it’s just not. For some games it’s awesome, for everything else, not so much. But to each their own. It was an expensive chip, I know. I try to justify all of my purchases too 🫡


----------



## 681933

Owterspace said:


> Why would you limit your 5900X to 4500 though? Still have 650MHz to go. You won’t convince me that X3D is the snappier chip at the desktop, it’s just not. For some games it’s awesome, for everything else, not so much. But to each their own. It was an expensive chip, I know. I try to justify all of my purchases too 🫡


I was trying manual OC for whatever reason, but again, not trying to convince anyone. I'm just saying what *my* experience was.


----------



## tabascosauz

simonabamber said:


> How are people adjusting PPT, EDC etc on the C8 dark hero? I have the PBO bios but these options are stuck at “auto” for me.


"Stuck"? I don't think I've seen that happen before on Asus. 4408 BIOS? I'm guessing you're in the new PBO menu under Tweaker? Is PBO2 Tuner still able to interact with those values on the fly?

If a clear CMOS or reflash don't do the trick, try 4303, the PBO in there is located under AMD OC menu instead.

ASUS ROG X570 Crosshair VIII Overclocking & Discussion Thread | Page 637 | Overclock.net

I hope you're not trying to adjust power limits above default, don't think that works.


----------



## poliacido

Subbed, i bought couple of weeks ago a new 5800x3d for 250€ i thought it was a deal to replace my old 3600.

Can i ask if the TLDR info settings on first page are still advised to this day? Or there are some other suggestions to make it work a bit better at stock?
No OC except bclk increase or am i wrong? 
I am a couple of years away from forums and OC in general, is 1usmus still working on something for ryzen cpus? I remember using CTR first release


----------



## Imprezzion

poliacido said:


> Subbed, i bought couple of weeks ago a new 5800x3d for 250€ i thought it was a deal to replace my old 3600.
> 
> Can i ask if the TLDR info settings on first page are still advised to this day? Or there are some other suggestions to make it work a bit better at stock?
> No OC except bclk increase or am i wrong?
> I am a couple of years away from forums and OC in general, is 1usmus still working on something for ryzen cpus? I remember using CTR first release


There's PBO / CO tuning available allowing max boost clocks at all times and undervolting with PBO2 Tuner. I don't think your Crosshair VII will get a new BIOS with PBO for the 5800X3D so I guess you can just use PBO2 Tuner and go for it. It does also like fast RAM and your signature says you have 3200C15 G.Skills which are most likely single rank b-die so try to go for like, 3800C14/C15 ish?


----------



## poliacido

Imprezzion said:


> There's PBO / CO tuning available allowing max boost clocks at all times and undervolting with PBO2 Tuner. I don't think your Crosshair VII will get a new BIOS with PBO for the 5800X3D so I guess you can just use PBO2 Tuner and go for it. It does also like fast RAM and your signature says you have 3200C15 G.Skills which are most likely single rank b-die so try to go for like, 3800C14/C15 ish?


I changed the board a couple of years ago but forgot to update the signature... fixed now. I am on a x570 TUF at the moment (with latest bios), the ram is still the same with cl15 at 1.35v and those are b-die yes. Not sure if can oc the ram so much: what voltage should i consider for maximum? Also i read the 5800x3d cant use pbo, or did i miss something??? I thought i could only use undervolt and some bclk increase. Any software nowdays do you guys reccomend to use for oc like i used CTR it was great. Or just activate pbo in bios settings?


----------



## tabascosauz

poliacido said:


> I changed the board a couple of years ago but forgot to update the signature... fixed now. I am on a x570 TUF at the moment (with latest bios), the ram is still the same with cl15 at 1.35v and those are b-die yes. Not sure if can oc the ram so much: what voltage should i consider for maximum? Also i read the 5800x3d cant use pbo, or did i miss something??? I thought i could only use undervolt and some bclk increase. Any software nowdays do you guys reccomend to use for oc like i used CTR it was great. Or just activate pbo in bios settings?


It can still use some parts of PBO, but you can't increase Boost Clock Override, or (I think) increase power limits above stock (not that you'd ever want to). CO still works and you can still reduce limits.

PBO isn't disabled, it's just automatically hidden upon AGESA detecting a 5800X3D. If you have a modded BIOS, or the latest 4303/4408 BIOSes from Asus, then you already have access to PBO or CO.

You're free to try and see how CTR reacts to the 5800X3D (I'm kinda curious) but the whole premise of CTR/Hydra is pretty much antithetical to the unique hardware limits imposed on the 5800X3D


----------



## Imprezzion

poliacido said:


> I changed the board a couple of years ago but forgot to update the signature... fixed now. I am on a x570 TUF at the moment (with latest bios), the ram is still the same with cl15 at 1.35v and those are b-die yes. Not sure if can oc the ram so much: what voltage should i consider for maximum? Also i read the 5800x3d cant use pbo, or did i miss something??? I thought i could only use undervolt and some bclk increase. Any software nowdays do you guys reccomend to use for oc like i used CTR it was great. Or just activate pbo in bios settings?


The latest Asus and MSI BIOS has PBO enabled. It wasn't supported at first. It just can't go past 4450 all core or 4550 single core but on stock CO it will throttle. Stock limits with just a negative CO is enough.


----------



## Owterspace

They gave us CO, and it looks like you can change limits, but they have no effect. I also am not able to achieve 100% EDC. Not sure if its just my board.


----------



## poliacido

tabascosauz said:


> It can still use some parts of PBO, but you can't increase Boost Clock Override, or (I think) increase power limits above stock (not that you'd ever want to). CO still works and you can still reduce limits.
> 
> PBO isn't disabled, it's just automatically hidden upon AGESA detecting a 5800X3D. If you have a modded BIOS, or the latest 4303/4408 BIOSes from Asus, then you already have access to PBO or CO.
> 
> You're free to try and see how CTR reacts to the 5800X3D (I'm kinda curious) but the whole premise of CTR/Hydra is pretty much antithetical to the unique hardware limits imposed on the 5800X3D





Imprezzion said:


> The latest Asus and MSI BIOS has PBO enabled. It wasn't supported at first. It just can't go past 4450 all core or 4550 single core but on stock CO it will throttle. Stock limits with just a negative CO is enough.


Ok i am just a bit confused when you say about CO... no idea what that is , seems i missed a lot lately about overlock or maybe is just a settings for the 5xxx series?
Maybe i will try with CTR just for fun , have to look for an updated release... i still have the 1.0, that is what i used lol
thanks for your help, i feel like i lived under a rock for the past months


----------



## chrisz5z

poliacido said:


> I changed the board a couple of years ago but forgot to update the signature... fixed now. I am on a x570 TUF at the moment (with latest bios), the ram is still the same with cl15 at 1.35v and those are b-die yes. Not sure if can oc the ram so much: what voltage should i consider for maximum? Also i read the 5800x3d cant use pbo, or did i miss something??? I thought i could only use undervolt and some bclk increase. Any software nowdays do you guys reccomend to use for oc like i used CTR it was great. Or just activate pbo in bios settings?


For most B-die, max daily (without extra cooling) voltage is 1.5V.


----------



## Imprezzion

poliacido said:


> Ok i am just a bit confused when you say about CO... no idea what that is , seems i missed a lot lately about overlock or maybe is just a settings for the 5xxx series?
> Maybe i will try with CTR just for fun , have to look for an updated release... i still have the 1.0, that is what i used lol
> thanks for your help, i feel like i lived under a rock for the past months


CO is basically a undervolt within PBO. It adjust V/F Curve. If you have a good sample it should have no problem with the lowest possible -30 all core but that is not guaranteed at all.


----------



## Stock-ish

Ok, not exactly sure what is going on, but I just bought and installed my 5800x3D today. I am getting worse performance in the same tests and games that I tested in before swapping out my 3700x. It literally makes 0 sense to me.

I’m not sure if I have missed something in the BIOS or what, but I am running everything that I tested (Heaven, Superposition, Timespy, GTA V benchmark) like 3-5% lower than the results I got from the same exact benchmarks in both 1080p and 4K. I am noticing the 3080 Ti to be pegged at the PWR Cap anytime ithas load on it which it did not do on the 3700x. Occasionally it would hit the power cap but not constant like it is with the 5800X3d.

I have DDU’d from Safe Mode and reinstalled latest Nvidia driver, Reinstalled the latest Chipset Driver, confirmed it is Boosting consistently to 4.5, I have Resize Bar enabled. Tried multiple power plans. I have tried undervolting the 3080 Ti which confirmed consistently higher boost and lower Temps but oddly did not increase FPS but about 1-2 Frames.

When I ran the benchmarks before swapping I reset MSI Afterburner to default, also the same in BIOS. Only thing I did leave was the 3600MHz c14 timings on my TeamGroup 4133 C18 Kit. Tested both exactly the same and for whatever reason I am getting 3-5% lower FPS in every benchmark I’ve ran.

Figured I would ask here being that this is a forum full of owners who may could point me in the right direction or point out what I may have missed.

Specs:

Corsair 4000D Airflow (Noctua Redux Fans)

Asrock X570 Tiachi (Latest BIOS (F5.0))
(Only options enabled in BIOS are Resizable Bar, Fan curves, RAM Timings and Voltages tan 1-1-1.)

5800X3D (Consistently boosting to 4.5)

Arctic eSports 34 Duo (~70s under gaming loads, 84 Highest I’ve seen during benching)

2x8GB TeamGroup 4133MHz 18-18-18-38 @ 3600MHz 14-15-15-30 Timings

Corsair RMx850 Gold Plus Power Supply

Windows 10 Pro


Any help would greatly be appreciated.


----------



## chrisz5z

Stock-ish said:


> Ok, not exactly sure what is going on, but I just bought and installed my 5800x3D today. I am getting worse performance in the same tests and games that I tested in before swapping out my 3700x. It literally makes 0 sense to me.
> 
> I’m not sure if I have missed something in the BIOS or what, but I am running everything that I tested (Heaven, Superposition, Timespy, GTA V benchmark) like 3-5% lower than the results I got from the same exact benchmarks in both 1080p and 4K. I am noticing the 3080 Ti to be pegged at the PWR Cap anytime ithas load on it which it did not do on the 3700x. Occasionally it would hit the power cap but not constant like it is with the 5800X3d.
> 
> I have DDU’d from Safe Mode and reinstalled latest Nvidia driver, Reinstalled the latest Chipset Driver, confirmed it is Boosting consistently to 4.5, I have Resize Bar enabled. Tried multiple power plans. I have tried undervolting the 3080 Ti which confirmed consistently higher boost and lower Temps but oddly did not increase FPS but about 1-2 Frames.
> 
> When I ran the benchmarks before swapping I reset MSI Afterburner to default, also the same in BIOS. Only thing I did leave was the 3600MHz c14 timings on my TeamGroup 4133 C18 Kit. Tested both exactly the same and for whatever reason I am getting 3-5% lower FPS in every benchmark I’ve ran.
> 
> Figured I would ask here being that this is a forum full of owners who may could point me in the right direction or point out what I may have missed.
> 
> Specs:
> 
> Corsair 4000D Airflow (Noctua Redux Fans)
> 
> Asrock X570 Tiachi (Latest BIOS (F5.0))
> (Only options enabled in BIOS are Resizable Bar, Fan curves, RAM Timings and Voltages tan 1-1-1.)
> 
> 5800X3D (Consistently boosting to 4.5)
> 
> Arctic eSports 34 Duo (~70s under gaming loads, 84 Highest I’ve seen during benching)
> 
> 2x8GB TeamGroup 4133MHz 18-18-18-38 @ 3600MHz 14-15-15-30 Timings
> 
> Corsair RMx850 Gold Plus Power Supply
> 
> Windows 10 Pro
> 
> 
> Any help would greatly be appreciated.


Have you tried other BIOs versions? 4.80 & L4. 82?...the latest BIOs doesn't always equal the best performance and/or stability


----------



## Stock-ish

chrisz5z said:


> Have you tried other BIOs versions? 4.80 & L4. 82?...the latest BIOs doesn't always equal the best performance and/or stability


4.80 and lower Locks the clocks to 3.4… Skipped over the Beta to the only other version.


----------



## poliacido

Ok i downloaded the latest Hydra and just finished a run to test CO limits and these are the results from the long time it took....

Changes in voltage, frequency, temperature and power consumption with respect to CO 0
CORE | TEL VID | FREQ | TEMP | POWER
C01 -0.082 86 -6.2 -2
C02 -0.138 35 -10.4 -4
C03 - 0.103 57 -8.8 -2
C04 -0.129 0 -10.2 -3
C05 -0.135 0 -10.6 -4
C06 -0.119 35 -9 -2
C07 -0.103 60 -8.3 -2
C08 -0.1 63 -8.2 -3

Found CO values
CORE | AMD CO
C01 -30
C02 -30
C03 -30
C04 -30
C05 -30
C06 -30
C07 -30
C08 -30


So now i just should go in bios and set those negative values and that's it? Also i noticed some cores can't ramp beyond 4450mhz (single core load) even with -30, but i can confirm i can constant hit and maintain 4450 all cores now on cinebench, before i was around 4350,4300 so it seems a win.


----------



## chrisz5z

Stock-ish said:


> 4.80 and lower Locks the clocks to 3.4… Skipped over the Beta to the only other version.


Sounds like 4.80 is bugged. It has AGESA 1.2.0.6b, which actually performed much better than 1.2.0.7 on my chip. I'd try the beta BIOs


----------



## Teussi

How to decrease pll cpu 1.8v on asus? Cannot changed it below 1.8. Currently running it auto, wanted to see how low it would go, if it frees a little bit power envelope.


----------



## Fight Game

Crylune said:


> GPUs went from not being enough for modern CPUs to slamdunking them in one generation, lol.


The generation isn't over though. 7xxxX3D isn't here yet!


----------



## Lobstar

Stock-ish said:


> Ok, not exactly sure what is going on, but I just bought and installed my 5800x3D today. I am getting worse performance in the same tests and games that I tested in before swapping out my 3700x. It literally makes 0 sense to me.


I've seen almost no difference from the 3700x I've been using the past few months. Much worse than my 5950x. Meh; maybe newer samples aren't as good as the older ones.


----------



## zixsie

Stock-ish said:


> Ok, not exactly sure what is going on, but I just bought and installed my 5800x3D today. I am getting worse performance in the same tests and games that I tested in before swapping out my 3700x. It literally makes 0 sense to me.
> 
> I’m not sure if I have missed something in the BIOS or what, but I am running everything that I tested (Heaven, Superposition, Timespy, GTA V benchmark) like 3-5% lower than the results I got from the same exact benchmarks in both 1080p and 4K. I am noticing the 3080 Ti to be pegged at the PWR Cap anytime ithas load on it which it did not do on the 3700x. Occasionally it would hit the power cap but not constant like it is with the 5800X3d.
> 
> I have DDU’d from Safe Mode and reinstalled latest Nvidia driver, Reinstalled the latest Chipset Driver, confirmed it is Boosting consistently to 4.5, I have Resize Bar enabled. Tried multiple power plans. I have tried undervolting the 3080 Ti which confirmed consistently higher boost and lower Temps but oddly did not increase FPS but about 1-2 Frames.
> 
> When I ran the benchmarks before swapping I reset MSI Afterburner to default, also the same in BIOS. Only thing I did leave was the 3600MHz c14 timings on my TeamGroup 4133 C18 Kit. Tested both exactly the same and for whatever reason I am getting 3-5% lower FPS in every benchmark I’ve ran.
> 
> Figured I would ask here being that this is a forum full of owners who may could point me in the right direction or point out what I may have missed.
> 
> Specs:
> 
> Corsair 4000D Airflow (Noctua Redux Fans)
> 
> Asrock X570 Tiachi (Latest BIOS (F5.0))
> (Only options enabled in BIOS are Resizable Bar, Fan curves, RAM Timings and Voltages tan 1-1-1.)
> 
> 5800X3D (Consistently boosting to 4.5)
> 
> Arctic eSports 34 Duo (~70s under gaming loads, 84 Highest I’ve seen during benching)
> 
> 2x8GB TeamGroup 4133MHz 18-18-18-38 @ 3600MHz 14-15-15-30 Timings
> 
> Corsair RMx850 Gold Plus Power Supply
> 
> Windows 10 Pro
> 
> 
> Any help would greatly be appreciated.


1. I also upgraded from 3700x to 5800x3d and i can see a massive, incomparable improvement in performance in the CPU dependent games i do play. It is a night and day difference. In the non CPU heavy games i can still see a massive performance improvement.
2. Worth a try to do a clean OS install on your end.


Lobstar said:


> I've seen almost no difference from the 3700x I've been using the past few months. Much worse than my 5950x. Meh; maybe newer samples aren't as good as the older ones.


Your statement is a complete false and not true. Newer samples vs old samples should give a negligible performance difference and should be on par. The only difference could be using CO tuning and while undervolt, but at stock CPU`s should be the same.

Just because a few users( exceptions) does not see a performance uplift, while thousand other does see the performance uplift means that there is something wrong with your system config and you should try to do a clean OS install.
5800x3d is miles faster than 3700x in anything you throw at it. May be the only scenario where you can`t see a difference would be playing minesweeper from windows 95.


----------



## Imprezzion

There's no real discussion here. There's dozens of benchmark sites / channels that have proof that a 5800X3D absolutely destroys a 3xxx gen CPU and in many cases beats even a 5950x if we're talking pure fps. If it isn't, something is wrong with the Windows install or bios or whatever but it ain't the CPU.


----------



## Lobstar

zixsie said:


> Just because a few users( exceptions) does not see a performance uplift, while thousand other does see the performance uplift means that there is something wrong with your system config and you should try to do a clean OS install.
> 5800x3d is miles faster than 3700x in anything you throw at it.


You make many assumptions. I did a full wipe of my system as I always do when I swap hardware. I wiped the bios and updated to the latest (4201). I've re-tuned my memory for the new processor. This processor doesn't produce enough heat to for my cooling setup to matter. Since I've had practical overclocking controls taken away and forced to let AMD take the wheel I've got 30*C of thermal headroom and a boost algorithm doing nothing while CO is maxed out at -30.

This processor is great for your average gamer. You don't need to do anything for pretty decent performance. I'm a PC hardware enthusiast who enjoys maxing out their hardware. Since I can't tweak and tune the rest of my setup doesn't matter. And since I can't the gap between this and my emergency stand by processor are basically zero.



zixsie said:


> Your statement is a complete false and not true.





define:maybe - Google Search


----------



## poliacido

Lobstar said:


> You make many assumptions. I did a full wipe of my system as I always do when I swap hardware. I wiped the bios and updated to the latest (4201). I've re-tuned my memory for the new processor. This processor doesn't produce enough heat to for my cooling setup to matter. Since I've had practical overclocking controls taken away and forced to let AMD take the wheel I've got 30*C of thermal headroom and a boost algorithm doing nothing while CO is maxed out at -30.
> 
> This processor is great for your average gamer. You don't need to do anything for pretty decent performance. I'm a PC hardware enthusiast who enjoys maxing out their hardware. Since I can't tweak and tune the rest of my setup doesn't matter. And since I can't the gap between this and my emergency stand by processor are basically zero.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> define:maybe - Google Search


Your WC loop is too overkill no matter the cpu. With all those rad surface we were cooling a 3 way sli + everything else easily back in the days


----------



## Shenhua

Im on agesa 1207, im on a 5900x and i dont have a 5800x3d, but i was suggested to come here since many of you are on a similar agesa version.
For some fked up reason im hard locked under 200w when using PBO.......... any suggestion? other than going back to agesa 1206 or 1203...........
Im not interested in going back as i wanna have negative max boost clock override offset.

Right now im on MSI b550 carbon.


----------



## Owterspace

Yeah X3D runs cool enough to not need fans on your heat sink let alone needing a crazy loop


----------



## Owterspace

Shenhua said:


> Im on agesa 1207, im on a 5900x and i dont have a 5800x3d, but i was suggested to come here since many of you are on a similar agesa version.
> For some fked up reason im hard locked under 200w when using PBO.......... any suggestion? other than going back to agesa 1206 or 1203...........
> Im not interested in going back as i wanna have negative max boost clock override offset.
> 
> Right now im on MSI b550 carbon.


You need to go back to1203 if you want 1.5v. With every new bios that is compatible with X3D you will be limited to ~1.425v


----------



## Shenhua

Owterspace said:


> You need to go back to1203 if you want 1.5v. With every new bios that is compatible with X3D you will be limited to ~1.425v


I dont think i understand what you mean, but if i do; no!, i do not want 1.5v! That's exactly why im on agesa 1207, because i can limit max frecuency lower than stock, thus less clock stretch means at the same time lower voltage and more CO undervolt headroom..... i get a big temp drop in gaming, and a slight increase in *avg* frecuency and in consequence fps. (currently testing stability with -28 on core 2 and -30 on the rest of them).........

Furthermore, 1,2v on a 5900x it's 250w+ in prime95 avx2.....

My problem, is i set 220w ppt, 150 tdc and 240 edc, and it gets stuck hovering 197-200w......... not only that but setting power limits to Auto has no effect, and unless i set them manually to 142 ppt, 95 tdc, and 140 edc, they stay like they were set before......... at 200+


----------



## Owterspace

Shenhua said:


> dont think i understand what you mean, but if i do; no!, i do not want 1.5v! That's exactly why im on agesa 1207, because i can limit max frecuency lower than stock, thus less clock stretch means at the same time lower voltage and more CO undervolt headroom..... i get a big temp drop in gaming, and a slight increase in avg frecuency and in consequence fps.
> Furthermore, 1,2v on a 5900x it's 250w+ in prime95 avx2.....
> 
> My problem, is i set 240ppt and tdc and edc in accordance, and it gets stuck hovering 197-200w.........


Yeah to get the high SC boost on multiple cores you need 1203 which give you the 1.5v needed to do it. But the neat thing with even 1207 is that you can still do 240wPPT with PBO and MC loads. You just cant boost as high, which is why its running so much cooler, it no longer has access to 1.5v. But even with 1.425v you should still get a couple of cores boosting.


----------



## Lobstar

poliacido said:


> Your WC loop is too overkill no matter the cpu. With all those rad surface we were cooling a 3 way sli + everything else easily back in the days


Yeah, because it's for multiple systems and it gets very warm here in the summer. Anything else you care to assume about my setup?


----------



## Shenhua

Owterspace said:


> Yeah to get the high SC boost on multiple cores you need 1203 which give you the 1.5v needed to do it. But the neat thing with even 1207 is that you can still do 240wPPT with PBO and MC loads. You just cant boost as high, which is why its running so much cooler, it no longer has access to 1.5v. But even with 1.425v you should still get a couple of cores boosting.


y eddited last comment.

Are you stuck in a loop my friend, assuming things and ignoring my comment at the same time?
The CPU stock keeps pumping close to 1.5v..... and still hits 70-80ºC with gaming loads on 1207. That's not the problem.

Im on 1207 and it's stuck at 200w..... it doesnt go past.................. and idk why........ i can set power limits higher than 200w, but it stops there................
Im not thermally limited either, as it's hovering 79-80ºC. (made sure is not a max temp bug, since slowing the fans down, do make it go well past 80ºC).


----------



## 681933

Shenhua said:


> The CPU stock keeps pumping close to 1.5v


Welcome to default Ryzen behavior. Nothing to see here.

5900X doesn't scale past 170W PPT regardless. Most likely some weird BIOS bug.


----------



## poliacido

Lobstar said:


> Yeah, because it's for multiple systems and it gets very warm here in the summer. Anything else you care to assume about my setup?


Not really, i am not here to discuss your WC loop or your choices, good for you that you could build that overkill loop, if that solves your problems that's cool for me...


----------



## Shenhua

Crylune said:


> Welcome to default Ryzen behavior. Nothing to see here.
> 
> 5900X doesn't scale past 170W PPT regardless. Most likely some weird BIOS bug.


I remember hitting 24k+ in last bios (One of the first versions for ryzen 5000) at 240w.......... ik, it's a bad number, considering that this CPU does 20,7k with 115w, but still..............


----------



## Stock-ish

zixsie said:


> 1. I also upgraded from 3700x to 5800x3d and i can see a massive, incomparable improvement in performance in the CPU dependent games i do play. It is a night and day difference. In the non CPU heavy games i can still see a massive performance improvement.
> 2. Worth a try to do a clean OS install on your end.
> 
> Your statement is a complete false and not true. Newer samples vs old samples should give a negligible performance difference and should be on par. The only difference could be using CO tuning and while undervolt, but at stock CPU`s should be the same.
> 
> Just because a few users( exceptions) does not see a performance uplift, while thousand other does see the performance uplift means that there is something wrong with your system config and you should try to do a clean OS install.
> 5800x3d is miles faster than 3700x in anything you throw at it. May be the only scenario where you can`t see a difference would be playing minesweeper from windows 95.


Guess maybe I just got a bad sample. I tried a fresh copy of Windows 10 today. I only have 2 options to choose from BIOS wise as anything prior to F4.80 and lower do not support the 5800x3D as it locks the clocks at 3.4Ghz and doesn’t not allow it to boost. I’ve tried both F4.82 (Beta) and F5.0 which it performs the same on.

I ran at exact same settings tested again before swapping with everything stock except RAM Underclock. Same results 3-5% lower FPS.

Did a test with everything including RAM at stock. Increased to about 7-10% FPS Loss over same tests performed before swapping.

Just got back from BestBuy and grabbed a set of 2x16Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 3600 CL18 to test as I thought maybe it was because I was only using single rank ram. Re-ran all tests again. Almost same performance as tests performed with tuned RAM on 3700x. All within 1-3 FPS lower and scores slightly lower by a few points.

Unless there is some magical setting that I am not aware of in the Asrock X570 Tiachi BIOS, I’m chalking it up to either a Bad sample or just better off staying with the 3700x. I game at 4k any ways so not going to see much of a difference anyways, but at 1080p there should be a major difference.

Odd thing is UserBenchmark is showing it to be performing at 114% almost one of the highest samples tested on the benchmark bar.

3080 Ti is performing at 68 percentile which having all settings stock is where it should be.

Something is definitely off though. I am just honestly not sure what.


----------



## chrisz5z

Stock-ish said:


> Guess maybe I just got a bad sample. I tried a fresh copy of Windows 10 today. I only have 2 options to choose from BIOS wise as anything prior to F4.80 and lower do not support the 5800x3D as it locks the clocks at 3.4Ghz and doesn’t not allow it to boost. I’ve tried both F4.82 (Beta) and F5.0 which it performs the same on.
> 
> I ran at exact same settings tested again before swapping with everything stock except RAM Underclock. Same results 3-5% lower FPS.
> 
> Did a test with everything including RAM at stock. Increased to about 7-10% FPS Loss over same tests performed before swapping.
> 
> Just got back from BestBuy and grabbed a set of 2x16Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 3600 CL18 to test as I thought maybe it was because I was only using single rank ram. Re-ran all tests again. Almost same performance as tests performed with tuned RAM on 3700x. All within 1-3 FPS lower and scores slightly lower by a few points.
> 
> Unless there is some magical setting that I am not aware of in the Asrock X570 Tiachi BIOS, I’m chalking it up to either a Bad sample or just better off staying with the 3700x. I game at 4k any ways so not going to see much of a difference anyways, but at 1080p there should be a major difference.
> 
> Odd thing is UserBenchmark is showing it to be performing at 114% almost one of the highest samples tested on the benchmark bar.
> 
> 3080 Ti is performing at 68 percentile which having all settings stock is where it should be.
> 
> Something is definitely off though. I am just honestly not sure what.


If it's set to Auto, try manually setting your BCLK to 100.00MHz. With my motherboard/BIOs, if it's set to anything other than 100.00 it locks my clocks to 3.4Ghz.


----------



## Stock-ish

chrisz5z said:


> If it's set to Auto, try manually setting your BCLK to 100.00MHz. With my motherboard/BIOs, if it's set to anything other than 100.00 it locks my clocks to 3.4Ghz.


It’s boosting fine. Regularly at 4.450. I did just check though and is at 100.00MHz. My problem is my 3700x performed better. And all benchmarks are showing 3-5% lower on the 5800x3D which makes zero sense.


----------



## 681933

Shenhua said:


> I remember hitting 24k+ in last bios (One of the first versions for ryzen 5000) at 240w


Since I managed to hit 23.5k at around 170W, not sure if the extra 70W is worth it.


----------



## zixsie

Stock-ish said:


> It’s boosting fine. Regularly at 4.450. I did just check though and is at 100.00MHz. My problem is my 3700x performed better. And all benchmarks are showing 3-5% lower on the 5800x3D which makes zero sense.


Something is definitely off with your system as you stated, but it seems very difficult to narrow down the issue since your system worked well with 3700x and you replaced only the CPU.

1. Can you run some other benchmarks rather than games, for example Cinebench R23 ? Your score should be around 14 000- 15 000 on stock CPU without any undervolt or CO tune.
2. Doing so might help you to find the root cause if it is game related performance issue or general performance issue.
3. If your CB23 score is as expected for that CPU, then something else related to GPU/PSU/PCI-E subsystem might be the problem. Might be worth a try to switch between PCI-E Gen3/Gen4 and disable Re-BAR through BIOS.
4. If your CB23 score is lower than expected, you might need to start running some stability tests for CPU, RAM, GPU. Also while running CB23 all core benchmark, use HWInfo64 to monitor your CPU temps and also check if your CPU is clock stretching (eg, major difference between Core clocks / Core effective clocks).
5. If either way you see high CPU temps on CB23 all core ( >80 degrees or near 90 degrees) or you see a clock stretching, might be worth it to reseat the CPU cooler, replace the Thermal paste. Make sure to spread the thermal paste on a thin layer across whole CPU IHS ( it is easier to use a credit card for that).


----------



## poliacido

Stock-ish said:


> It’s boosting fine. Regularly at 4.450. I did just check though and is at 100.00MHz. My problem is my 3700x performed better. And all benchmarks are showing 3-5% lower on the 5800x3D which makes zero sense.


Can you swap again cpu and check if the performance are back again? Maybe something related to the gpu? Did you change drivers? Check with afterburner if the gpu load stays always at max with different games, better if you try with both cpus. Also check if you loose performance at max/average fps or you loose also at 1% and 0.1% low (there you should get higher with the X3D)


----------



## Imprezzion

Would running 1.26xxv vSOC SET 1.250 GET with 1.150 CCD and IOD and 1.000 VDDP be considered "safe 24/7" for you guys?

I managed to get 100% WHEA free and stable 2000 IF with 4000C16 on the RAM which has incredible performance with mid 57's latency and really good bandwidth but it takes a LOT of volts to do so as you can see above.

If it matters, ProcODT 32ohm, RTT's Disabled, 3, 1, DrvStr 24 all 4.


----------



## 681933

Imprezzion said:


> Would running 1.26xxv vSOC SET 1.250 GET with 1.150 CCD and IOD and 1.000 VDDP be considered "safe 24/7" for you guys?
> 
> I managed to get 100% WHEA free and stable 2000 IF with 4000C16 on the RAM which has incredible performance with mid 57's latency and really good bandwidth but it takes a LOT of volts to do so as you can see above.
> 
> If it matters, ProcODT 32ohm, RTT's Disabled, 3, 1, DrvStr 24 all 4.


That is not a safe SoC voltage. Nope. 1.2v max on the SoC. CPU death is not worth the less than marginal gains.


----------



## mtbiker033

I set up my 5800X3D system today, WOW! I went from an [email protected] to this cpu on an MSI ACE MAX X570S with 4133mhz Patriot Viper ram.

I'm speechless, realy this is such a great set-up!!!!!


----------



## Owterspace

Hey, just curious if any of you X3D owners that use a heatsink have tried running the cooler semi-passively? Yesterday while I was waiting for the glue to dry on some corner pads for my TY-143 for a fan swap, I decided to power the system with a naked cooler and see how long it would run before I had to shut it off. It was running fine, cool actually. So I threw on some OCCT and let it run for an hour, didn't break 80.. then came Linpack, and y-cruncher... all of the 3Dmark benches.. so I took out all of my case fans except the stock 2 up front. Same thing, no problem with no fans on the cooler and its even quieter than before 
If you have a good cooler and halfway decent case flow, I would try it out


----------



## Blameless

Decided to test BCLK OCing again. After mixing and matching some drives to find ones that weren't overly picky (my Phison E16 and PCI-E gen 3 SK Hynix controllers, as well as my WD Velociraptors, seem to at least work without obvious issues to at least 102.5MHz), I quickly realized that any essentially any FCLK that would throw any WHEA error at all would simply not post with an elevated BCLK. Hard limit is about 1920MHz on this sample, so I'm running at the 1867/3733 mutliplier for most of my testing.

Right now I'm looping drive read benchmarks to check for disk/interface errors and stressapptest to hammer the FCLK and memory. This is from bootable Linux media as I don't want anything written to my disks until I'm satisfied that the risk of corruption is negligible.

If there are no signs of issues after another fifteen hours or so, I'll boot back into Windows for most testing.



Imprezzion said:


> Would running 1.26xxv vSOC SET 1.250 GET with 1.150 CCD and IOD and 1.000 VDDP be considered "safe 24/7" for you guys?


Some people will run it--I think Veii had a chip where he was putting more than 1.25 vSoC into it for extended periods without issue--but I personally wouldn't risk it.



Owterspace said:


> Hey, just curious if any of you X3D owners that use a heatsink have tried running the cooler semi-passively? Yesterday while I was waiting for the glue to dry on some corner pads for my TY-143 for a fan swap, I decided to power the system with a naked cooler and see how long it would run before I had to shut it off. It was running fine, cool actually. So I threw on some OCCT and let it run for an hour, didn't break 80.. then came Linpack, and y-cruncher... all of the 3Dmark benches.. so I took out all of my case fans except the stock 2 up front. Same thing, no problem with no fans on the cooler and its even quieter than before
> If you have a good cooler and halfway decent case flow, I would try it out


For basic testing/setup, I often don't have a fan plugged in. I just set the heatsink on the CPU in the test bench. A light loads, with a fairly large heatsink, this can run indefinitely on many parts. I also leave the fan disconnected initially to thermal cycle TIM.

However, once installed in a final config, I prefer a fan profile that moves as much air as possible before becoming audible, as I want as much of a thermal buffer as possible in actual use.


----------



## Imprezzion

I think I'll just drop back down then to 3933 1:1 with the same timings. That only requires about 1.15 vSOC and way less VDDG's. 4000 1:1 is nice and all but not worth nuking this sample over. She's a strong one with a good IMC and -30 CO all core problem free so I kinda wanna keep it in one piece.


----------



## AXi0M

Imprezzion said:


> Would running 1.26xxv vSOC SET 1.250 GET with 1.150 CCD and IOD and 1.000 VDDP be considered "safe 24/7" for you guys?
> 
> I managed to get 100% WHEA free and stable 2000 IF with 4000C16 on the RAM which has incredible performance with mid 57's latency and really good bandwidth but it takes a LOT of volts to do so as you can see above.
> 
> If it matters, ProcODT 32ohm, RTT's Disabled, 3, 1, DrvStr 24 all 4.


i get mid 57's ns latency with only 3866c16. you likely have some error correction going on even without WHEA's


----------



## Taraquin

AXi0M said:


> i get mid 57's ns latency with only 3866c16. you likely have some error correction going on even without WHEA's


Probably too low VDD18. That will cause lower performance. At ProcODT 28 I need 1.88v at 4000 WHEA19 free, at ProcODT 32 I need 1.84v. Stock 1.8v causes performance degredation.

Example linpack at ProcODT 28:
3800cl14 tuned 1.6v VDD18 272.5GF 53.9ns
4000cl15 tuned 1.6v VDD18 266.2GF 52.6ns
4000cl15 tuned 1.72v VDD18 268.5GF 52.3ns
4000cl15 tuned 1.88v VDD18 272.3GF 52ns
In SOTTR I gain about 2-3% fps with the forth setting vs 3800ck14.

Unfortunately high VDD18 causes a lot more heat (over 5C in CB23) so I stick with 3800cl14.


----------



## donk165

Hi everyone,

I recently got my 5800X3D, its a B2 stepping if that changes things. So my previous CPU was an R5 3600, and I had that running an all core overclock of 4.2ghz @ 1.22v. Since getting this CPU, I've remembered why I used to run an all core overclock - the aggressive CPU fan ramping up. So when I get to the Windows login screen, my fans are running at near max, and they slow down a bit once I've logged in, and then ramp up again if I open Chrome etc. This is pretty annoying to listen to 😅 I have a Cryorig R7 Ultra cooler, with 2 x Arctic P120 fans in push pull, and then the Cryorig fan as the exhaust on the case.

So I can't all core overclock on this CPU and my options are limited since most OC settings are hidden in the BIOS it seems, I can't find curve optimizer in the BIOS. I have a Gigabyte B550 Aorus Pro AC, and its on BIOS F15a which is AGESA 1.2.0.6B. There is BIOS F15d which is AGESA 1.2.0.7 available too, but based on the OP and what I've read in here, we should stick to 1206B as 1207 has higher voltage/power usage? 

Is there anything in the BIOS I can do to curve optimize? Or will I just need to tweak my fan profiles? 

I'm guessing if my Mobo doesn't support the curve optimizer with this CPU, I will have to use PBO2 tuner on start up to get a negative offset working? 

Thanks!


----------



## Frosted racquet

@donk165 Just tweak your fan profile (especially set ramp up/ramp down time to something like 1 second) and use PBO2 Tuner


----------



## ludovicoleone

Hi guys. I have upgraded my 5900x to 5800x3d. I have gskill trident z neo HYNIX DJR 2x16 3600 Mhz ram kits. It is not so much to tweak it but I did some tweaks and I was gettings 59.7 latency for 5900x. I tested the same tweak and -30 curve with 5800x3d I got 74's latency. It was a huge difference. Then I went to bios default and turned on XMP 3600mhz, then I got 70s' latency. XMP was better than my tightening ram. I don't know what I did wrong. Could you help me, please? I have B550F WIFI.


----------



## AXi0M

ludovicoleone said:


> Hi guys. I have upgraded my 5900x to 5800x3d. I have gskill trident z neo HYNIX DJR 2x16 3600 Mhz ram kits. It is not so much to tweak it but I did some tweaks and I was gettings 59.7 latency for 5900x. I tested the same tweak and -30 curve with 5800x3d I got 74's latency. It was a huge difference. Then I went to bios default and turned on XMP 3600mhz, then I got 70s' latency. XMP was better than my tightening ram. I don't know what I did wrong. Could you help me, please? I have B550F WIFI.
> 
> View attachment 2589395
> 
> View attachment 2589396


X3D gets higher latency be default 4-5ns in aida.


----------



## ludovicoleone

AXi0M said:


> X3D gets higher latency be default 4-5ns in aida.


Thank you for reply but it got 10ns higher right now.


----------



## donk165

Frosted racquet said:


> @donk165 Just tweak your fan profile (especially set ramp up/ramp down time to something like 1 second) and use PBO2 Tuner


I've already got the temperature interval set to 2, will try 3 which is the highest setting I think. I'll also try the silent preset instead of normal preset. I couldn't see an option to set my own curve in the BIOS.
And PBO2 tuner is the way to go then, thanks


----------



## Blameless

ludovicoleone said:


> Thank you for reply but it got 10ns higher right now.


Your 5900X timings are much tighter and the frequency 133MT/s higher. XMP is trash and subtimings matter.


----------



## mtbiker033

Testing out PBO2 tuner today, I started at -10 to all cores, got an increase in scores and lower temps, went to -20 and again boost in scores and lower temps, went to -30 and got 14601 & temps in the 60's:









From doing some reading in the thread, I need to stability test the -30 to make sure it's viable


----------



## 681933

mtbiker033 said:


> From doing some reading in the thread, I need to stability test the -30 to make sure it's viable


Said it before and I'll say it again: Ycruncher, at least 20 iterations.


----------



## snkeyez95

Crylune said:


> Said it before and I'll say it again: Ycruncher, at least 20 iterations.


Is there a guide or YT video that explains how to use y-cruncher for the purposes of testing? What test in y-cruncher?


----------



## MrHoof

No Video needed.
Open it, press 1 for stress test, 8 to disable all test, 11 12 (13 14) 16 17 18 to enable most important tests and 0 to start.
In brackets optional and make sure your cooling can handle it so monitor temps it will get toasty.


----------



## Blameless

Fairly confident my current selection of drives can handle at least 102.5MHz BCLK, but my 5800X3D sample doesn't have much of any unconditionally stable headroom with any meaningful BCLK OC along with -30 CO. Using less aggressive curves does restore stability, but it also costs so much performance (due to throttling) that the optimal setup is what I was originally using. The harsher y-cruncher tests were throwing errors or causing clock watchdog BSODs at any settings that were actually faster.


----------



## 681933

Sadly, raising BCLK to 102 for me does nothing for the CPU as it gets locked at 3.4 base clock, luckily didn't hurt my drives. Wish this board had an external clock gen.


----------



## Blameless

With my system tuned for 100MHz BCLK, even 100.5625MHz quickly results clock watchdog crashes in y-cruncher HNT. Reducing droop by using more aggressive LLC helps, but adds more heat. Less aggressive CO helps, but adds more heat. Positive vcore offset helps, but adds more heat. Net result is that by the time I've added enough load voltage to stabilize worst case scenarios, performance is the same or worse because of thermal throttling.

Haven't had any issues with ASRocks firmware locking down the CPU during BCLK OCs, but any more real performance will need better cooling.


----------



## bottjeremy

ludovicoleone said:


> Hi guys. I have upgraded my 5900x to 5800x3d. I have gskill trident z neo HYNIX DJR 2x16 3600 Mhz ram kits. It is not so much to tweak it but I did some tweaks and I was gettings 59.7 latency for 5900x. I tested the same tweak and -30 curve with 5800x3d I got 74's latency. It was a huge difference. Then I went to bios default and turned on XMP 3600mhz, then I got 70s' latency. XMP was better than my tightening ram. I don't know what I did wrong. Could you help me, please? I have B550F WIFI.
> 
> View attachment 2589395
> 
> View attachment 2589396


Here is where I'm at right now. Still more tweaking to do, but gets you in the ballpark of what to expect for an X3D. Make sure memory fast boot is off.


----------



## donk165

My PBO2 tuner results: 
Stock
R20 = 5241 pts
R23 = 13451 pts
Max temp = 90.0*c

Minus 15
R20 = 5348 pts
R23 = 13752 pts
Max temp = 82.6*c

Minus 20
R20 = 5391 pts
R23 = 13756 pts
Max temp = 81.5c

Minus 25
R20 = 5424 pts
R23 = 13856 pts
Max temp = 80.4c

Minus 30
R20 = 5456 pts
R23 = 13993 pts
Max temp = 79.1c

Pretty chuffed with that, quite a big drop in temps and the boost is sustained much better now. Looks like my chip has handled -30 offset, nearly cracked 14k on R23. Now just to set up the startup settings!


----------



## 681933

donk165 said:


> My PBO2 tuner results:
> Stock
> R20 = 5241 pts
> R23 = 13451 pts
> Max temp = 90.0*c
> 
> Minus 15
> R20 = 5348 pts
> R23 = 13752 pts
> Max temp = 82.6*c
> 
> Minus 20
> R20 = 5391 pts
> R23 = 13756 pts
> Max temp = 81.5c
> 
> Minus 25
> R20 = 5424 pts
> R23 = 13856 pts
> Max temp = 80.4c
> 
> Minus 30
> R20 = 5456 pts
> R23 = 13993 pts
> Max temp = 79.1c
> 
> Pretty chuffed with that, quite a big drop in temps and the boost is sustained much better now. Looks like my chip has handled -30 offset, nearly cracked 14k on R23. Now just to set up the startup settings!


Weird, I get the 14850 in R23 at the same 80C temperature with -30 CO... binning?


----------



## donk165

Crylune said:


> Weird, I get the 14850 in R23 at the same 80C temperature with -30 CO... binning?


Oh wow yeah your score is quite a bit higher than mine! I did re-run it and got 14028pts, so I managed to crack 14k 

Mine is a B2 stepping if that changes anything? and my RAM is slower than yours. I've not done any RAM tweaks yet, that's just running XMP settings. IF is running at stock too - 1600Mhz

What AGESA version are you using? I'm on 1206b


----------



## Owterspace

80s and 90s for Cinebench? Is it hot where you guys are?

My ambient is 18-19c right now down in the dungeon


----------



## Imprezzion

I get 14400 on stock and 15200 on -30.. it still hits 72-73c even under custom water but k. Something seems off with your scores tbh.


----------



## chrisz5z

donk165 said:


> My PBO2 tuner results:
> Stock
> R20 = 5241 pts
> R23 = 13451 pts
> Max temp = 90.0*c
> 
> Minus 15
> R20 = 5348 pts
> R23 = 13752 pts
> Max temp = 82.6*c
> 
> Minus 20
> R20 = 5391 pts
> R23 = 13756 pts
> Max temp = 81.5c
> 
> Minus 25
> R20 = 5424 pts
> R23 = 13856 pts
> Max temp = 80.4c
> 
> Minus 30
> R20 = 5456 pts
> R23 = 13993 pts
> Max temp = 79.1c
> 
> Pretty chuffed with that, quite a big drop in temps and the boost is sustained much better now. Looks like my chip has handled -30 offset, nearly cracked 14k on R23. Now just to set up the startup settings!


What do your effective clocks look like while running R23?


----------



## makeyke

Hello everyone, just wanted to share my results on 5800x3d
Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite, bios f37d (AGESA 1.2.0.7), Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 with offset mount, bios settings: XMP 3600, Global C-State Control Enabled, CPPC Enabled, CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled, Resize BAR On
Are these results okay?


----------



## Imprezzion

makeyke said:


> Hello everyone, just wanted to share my results on 5800x3d
> Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite, bios f37d (AGESA 1.2.0.7), Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 with offset mount, bios settings: XMP 3600, Global C-State Control Enabled, CPPC Enabled, CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled, Resize BAR On
> Are these results okay?
> View attachment 2589711
> View attachment 2589712


Seems completely fine to me. Temps look good, clocks are fine, score is fine for 3600C16 RAM and 1800 FCLK.

My friends 5800X3D alas is a dud. I bought him a HyperX 3600C16 kit (not b-die, the cheap 3600 16-19-19 kit), but the CPU will not run 3600 at all. Immediately throws loads of error #6's in TM5 which is IMC related. I could get it to run an hour without errors but I needed to throw a ungodly amount of vSOC at it and it wasn't worth it. The RAM is fine, I tested it in my own system and it ran both XMP and 3866 16-20-20 @ 1.45v just fine. He's not big into OC at all so I set it up at a very basic 3200 16-16-16-36-52-560-1T GDM @ 1.35v with PBO2 Tuner at -23 all core and it runs fine like that and still boosts to 4400-4450 in most games and scores around 14800 in R23 so..


----------



## Owterspace

I don't doubt it, from what I understand is that these things (Zen 3) are all over the place. I have heard of guys not being able to do 1600 1:1, have not seen it though.. I have some Adata Gammix that are absolute trash. 3200 16-20-20. Cheapest in the city that had warranty can barely do 3400. Oh and you have to enter your settings every time you kill the power. My Asus board does not like em. I just made a profile to make easier


----------



## 681933

Owterspace said:


> Is it hot where you guys are?


We don't have cranked industrial Noctuas.



donk165 said:


> Oh wow yeah your score is quite a bit higher than mine! I did re-run it and got 14028pts, so I managed to crack 14k
> 
> Mine is a B2 stepping if that changes anything? and my RAM is slower than yours. I've not done any RAM tweaks yet, that's just running XMP settings. IF is running at stock too - 1600Mhz
> 
> What AGESA version are you using? I'm on 1206b


The memory shouldn't matter much for Cinebench. I'm also on B2 stepping on AGESA 1.2.0.7 which *should* perform worse than 1.2.0.6b. No idea what's going on.



makeyke said:


> Hello everyone, just wanted to share my results on 5800x3d
> Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite, bios f37d (AGESA 1.2.0.7), Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 with offset mount, bios settings: XMP 3600, Global C-State Control Enabled, CPPC Enabled, CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled, Resize BAR On
> Are these results okay?


I found that keeping Preferred Cores disabled doesn't benefit anything and actually hurts scores.


----------



## AXi0M

Crylune said:


> I found that keeping Preferred Cores disabled doesn't benefit anything and actually hurts scores.


I've found the same thing, i don't know why it's still recommended on the first page but whatever lol


----------



## donk165

chrisz5z said:


> What do your effective clocks look like while running R23?


I'll retest it again when I get home and get some screenshots with HWinfo open, but it was 44XXMhz during a R23 run.


Crylune said:


> The memory shouldn't matter much for Cinebench. I'm also on B2 stepping on AGESA 1.2.0.7 which *should* perform worse than 1.2.0.6b. No idea what's going on.


Ah okay, well I'll post some HWinfo screenshots later, maybe that might shed some light? Unless 1207 gives a better score maybe?


----------



## Imprezzion

AXi0M said:


> I've found the same thing, i don't know why it's still recommended on the first page but whatever lol


Hmm, then maybe I should enable it again. I run disabled normally as well on 1.2.0.7.


----------



## AXi0M

Imprezzion said:


> Hmm, then maybe I should enable it again. I run disabled normally as well on 1.2.0.7.


Ive tried the cppc tricks and it results in lower single and multithreaded results on my system.

My bios is literally all auto except -30 curve and tuned ram which has always given the best results in all benches for me


----------



## Owterspace

Crylune said:


> We don't have cranked industrial Noctuas.


I don’t have a single Noctua fan installed. In fact, I could run 0 fans on the cooler and still not touch 80.


----------



## zbug

AXi0M said:


> Ive tried the cppc tricks and it results in lower single and multithreaded results on my system.
> 
> My bios is literally all auto except -30 curve and tuned ram which has always given the best results in all benches for me


Would be nice if we have more feedback on that! Would be very interested to understand also why it is suddenly better or what has changed to make it different than the original recommendation.
You both on Windows 11 22H2?


----------



## Imprezzion

I am, clean install as well. I'll give it a test this evening when I get home in like 2-3 hours.


----------



## AXi0M

zbug said:


> Would be nice if we have more feedback on that! Would be very interested to understand also why it is suddenly better or what has changed to make it different than the original recommendation.
> You both on Windows 11 22H2?


Also W11 22h2. The recommendations page 1 were added the day X3D came out. Either not enough testing or just jumped to conclusions.


----------



## BreadPitch

Imprezzion said:


> Seems completely fine to me. Temps look good, clocks are fine, score is fine for 3600C16 RAM and 1800 FCLK.
> 
> My friends 5800X3D alas is a dud. I bought him a HyperX 3600C16 kit (not b-die, the cheap 3600 16-19-19 kit), but the CPU will not run 3600 at all. Immediately throws loads of error #6's in TM5 which is IMC related. I could get it to run an hour without errors but I needed to throw a ungodly amount of vSOC at it and it wasn't worth it. The RAM is fine, I tested it in my own system and it ran both XMP and 3866 16-20-20 @ 1.45v just fine. He's not big into OC at all so I set it up at a very basic 3200 16-16-16-36-52-560-1T GDM @ 1.35v with PBO2 Tuner at -23 all core and it runs fine like that and still boosts to 4400-4450 in most games and scores around 14800 in R23 so..


If it´s Micron, try setting TRCDRD to 20 or better 22. See my HyperX 3200C16 Kit, which runs fine at this:
<no "this", this website crashes each time when pasting screenshots>

... however, try TRCDRD at 22, everything else at your nice low 16 settings - specifically: 16-16-[22-16]-40-56-560-GDM.


----------



## 681933

Owterspace said:


> I don’t have a single Noctua fan installed. In fact, I could run 0 fans on the cooler and still not touch 80.


Congrats. Not sure if I buy that but congrats. My days of chasing synthetic scores and low temperatures are over.



AXi0M said:


> Also W11 22h2. The recommendations page 1 were added the day X3D came out. Either not enough testing or just jumped to conclusions.


Can confirm I'm on Windows 11 22H2 as well. Don't have a reason to use any other version of Windows when this one is the most up to date and performs the best.


----------



## Owterspace

Crylune said:


> Congrats. Not sure if I buy that but congrats. My days of chasing synthetic scores with low temperatures are over.


All good, you don't have to buy anything that I say. But those who know me, know.

My name here is Owterspace, because my freeagent account is tied to an isp email that I no longer have. Everywhere I am freeagent. I have no reason to bullshit anyone.


----------



## Imprezzion

Did 3 runs R23 MT, -30 CO all core, Auto everything else with CPPC Auto and Preferred Cores Enabled. 14894, 14922, 14905. vCore SVI2 TFN 1.200-1.206v temps 75-77c.

CPPC Auto Preferred Cores Disabled 3 runs 15029 15032 15027. vCore SVI2 TFN 1.181v temps 73-74c so noticably lower vCore and temps.

Single core scores were identical around 1490 within margin of error as with both enabled and disabled the same cores still boost to 4550 as my Preferred Cores _are_ #0 and #1.

Memory is 3933 15-15-15-35-50-280-2T GDM Off 1967 FCLK.

Scores can be +100-150 if I close HWINFO64, MSI AB, Discord and the likes but I won't as this is real-world scenario with what normally starts on boot with my PC.

So yeah, running CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled is miles ahead for my specific board / BIOS.

I'll do another set of 3 runs with CPPC also disabled in general.

EDIT: CPPC Disabled Preferred Cores Disabled 15098 15132 15077 so bit more variance but still all 3 well above the other 2 setups. And knowing what CPPC does it makes sense. Why would we need CPPC to tell Windows what the position and architecture of the CPU is when it's single CCD so no shared caches and is frequency limited at the same frequency for all cores. As long as all 8 cores can be stable at 4550 single core loads it's completely unnecessary to run CPPC and only creates more complicated boost behavior, scheduling within Windows and possible latency / core congestion. 

On the X3D, at least on a sample that can handle 4550 on -30 CO on every single core, I would say disable both.


----------



## 681933

Owterspace said:


> All good, you don't have to buy anything that I say. But those who know me, know.
> 
> My name here is Owterspace, because my freeagent account is tied to an isp email that I no longer have. Everywhere I am freeagent. I have no reason to bullshit anyone.


I know who you are, remember you from the cesspool that is TechPowerUp forums. One of the only good people in there.


Imprezzion said:


> Did 3 runs R23 MT, -30 CO all core, Auto everything else with CPPC Auto and Preferred Cores Enabled. 14894, 14922, 14905. vCore SVI2 TFN 1.200-1.206v temps 75-77c.
> 
> CPPC Auto Preferred Cores Disabled 3 runs 15029 15032 15027. vCore SVI2 TFN 1.181v temps 73-74c so noticably lower vCore and temps.
> 
> Single core scores were identical around 1490 within margin of error as with both enabled and disabled the same cores still boost to 4550 as my Preferred Cores _are_ #0 and #1.
> 
> Memory is 3933 15-15-15-35-50-280-2T GDM Off 1967 FCLK.
> 
> Scores can be +100-150 if I close HWINFO64, MSI AB, Discord and the likes but I won't as this is real-world scenario with what normally starts on boot with my PC.
> 
> So yeah, running CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled is miles ahead for my specific board / BIOS.
> 
> I'll do another set of 3 runs with CPPC also disabled in general.
> 
> EDIT: CPPC Disabled Preferred Cores Disabled 15098 15132 15077 so bit more variance but still all 3 well above the other 2 setups. And knowing what CPPC does it makes sense. Why would we need CPPC to tell Windows what the position and architecture of the CPU is when it's single CCD so no shared caches and is frequency limited at the same frequency for all cores. As long as all 8 cores can be stable at 4550 single core loads it's completely unnecessary to run CPPC and only creates more complicated boost behavior, scheduling within Windows and possible latency / core congestion.
> 
> On the X3D, at least on a sample that can handle 4550 on -30 CO on every single core, I would say disable both.


Interesting, let me try with both disabled myself since my CPU can hit 4550 on all at stock. I've only ever tried it with Preferred Cores disabled, not CPPC itself.


----------



## Owterspace

Crylune said:


> I know who you are, remember you from the cesspool that is TechPowerUp forums. One of the only good people in there.
> 
> Interesting, let me try with both disabled myself. I've only ever tried it with Preferred Cores disabled, not CPPC itself.


Stop it you are makin me blush 

I have pics, and screenshots.. doesn't do much good without video I suppose. I put my fans back on (not the Nocs lol) because the system was too quiet. If I hear noise then I know its still working 

Besides.. its winter right now, but I should revisit the idea when things warm up another 50c outside 

FC140 is an awesome cooler, would highly recommend


----------



## 681933

Owterspace said:


> FC140 is an awesome cooler, would highly recommend


I think I've had enough of 140mm coolers in this particular case, the NH-U12A is compact and powerful as I like it. My next case will be more spacious and will probably house a Liquid Freezer II(I?) 360 or 420 with an offset mount because I want to try an AIO for the first time.


----------



## 681933

Crylune said:


> Interesting, let me try with both disabled myself since my CPU can hit 4550 on all at stock. I've only ever tried it with Preferred Cores disabled, not CPPC itself.


Disabled both, scores 200 points lower across 5 runs. With them enabled, back to my 14900.


----------



## Imprezzion

Crylune said:


> Disabled both, scores 200 points lower across 5 runs. With them enabled, back to my 14900.


And the best part is, you have the same board as me. Ok mines white -A version but the -A and -F are 99% identical..

I can think of one difference maybe that I didn't mention. I use custom power plan. The Ryzen Ultimate Low power 11v4 one. Maybe that changes stuff with the core allocation?


----------



## 681933

Imprezzion said:


> And the best part is, you have the same board as me. Ok mines white -A version but the -A and -F are 99% identical..
> 
> I can think of one difference maybe that I didn't mention. I use custom power plan. The Ryzen Ultimate Low power 11v4 one. Maybe that changes stuff with the core allocation?


Yeahhh I just use the Balanced power plan as I didn't see a point to them on Ryzen 5000. Or 3000 for that matter...


----------



## Imprezzion

Crylune said:


> Yeahhh I just use the Balanced power plan as I didn't see a point to them on Ryzen 5000. Or 3000 for that matter...


I use it because it drops idle down way lower. Windows Balanced or even Power Saver always runs 36xx MHz and around 29-30w while the custom plan drops to 19xxMhz and 23-24w.


----------



## 681933

Imprezzion said:


> I use it because it drops idle down way lower. Windows Balanced or even Power Saver always runs 36xx MHz and around 29-30w while the custom plan drops to 19xxMhz and 23-24w.


I'll install it and see if anything's changed. I like me some extra power savings.

Thing is, I have the AMD chipset drivers installed, this won't interfere with the power provisioning plan right?

EDIT: Okay so it's still sticking around 3.6 GHz at 25W, this plan changed basically nothing.


----------



## zixsie

Imprezzion said:


> Did 3 runs R23 MT, -30 CO all core, Auto everything else with CPPC Auto and Preferred Cores Enabled. 14894, 14922, 14905. vCore SVI2 TFN 1.200-1.206v temps 75-77c.
> 
> CPPC Auto Preferred Cores Disabled 3 runs 15029 15032 15027. vCore SVI2 TFN 1.181v temps 73-74c so noticably lower vCore and temps.
> 
> Single core scores were identical around 1490 within margin of error as with both enabled and disabled the same cores still boost to 4550 as my Preferred Cores _are_ #0 and #1.
> 
> Memory is 3933 15-15-15-35-50-280-2T GDM Off 1967 FCLK.
> 
> Scores can be +100-150 if I close HWINFO64, MSI AB, Discord and the likes but I won't as this is real-world scenario with what normally starts on boot with my PC.
> 
> So yeah, running CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled is miles ahead for my specific board / BIOS.
> 
> I'll do another set of 3 runs with CPPC also disabled in general.
> 
> EDIT: CPPC Disabled Preferred Cores Disabled 15098 15132 15077 so bit more variance but still all 3 well above the other 2 setups. And knowing what CPPC does it makes sense. Why would we need CPPC to tell Windows what the position and architecture of the CPU is when it's single CCD so no shared caches and is frequency limited at the same frequency for all cores. As long as all 8 cores can be stable at 4550 single core loads it's completely unnecessary to run CPPC and only creates more complicated boost behavior, scheduling within Windows and possible latency / core congestion.
> 
> On the X3D, at least on a sample that can handle 4550 on -30 CO on every single core, I would say disable both.


FYI: CPPC Preferred cores should be tested with game benchmarks and not CB23 ( all core or sngle core benchmark)


----------



## Owterspace

With balanced mine drop down to 2880 in 10 and 11. I do not use the AMD chipset drivers though..


----------



## 681933

Yeah, 2880 is basically what it drops to no matter what. I'll just revert my settings and reinstall the provisioning package. These plans never did anything for me.










As for CPPC, it apparently performs best for me if both CPPC and Preferred Cores are enabled, so I'll leave it like that.


----------



## zbug

Tried enabled, does not seem to be any better (have not yet ran a game benchmark) and at least, looking at the task manager, its seem to have much less spread of tasks to the cores in idle, maybe expected, but now core0 and others are much more loaded and rest is almost flat.


----------



## donk165

Here are my readouts in the middle of an R23 run, my score just now was 13989 pts, it was 13773 pts on the first run. Have I just got unlucky on the silicon lottery? 😅


----------



## 681933

donk165 said:


> Have I just got unlucky on the silicon lottery


Your boost clocks in the middle of R23 look better than mine:










Yet I score a thousand higher, not sure what's going on.


----------



## mtbiker033

donk165 said:


> Here are my readouts in the middle of an R23 run, my score just now was 13989 pts, it was 13773 pts on the first run. Have I just got unlucky on the silicon lottery? 😅


I don't think synthetic benchmark scores mean too much for this CPU at all, I have had mine for a week and due to the architecture, it's just how it works, that huge cache is the golden gun with the silver bullet for gaming without any tweaking it just works. Obviously, the cooler you can keep it and faster ram is nice but play some games and see it shine. 

I am getting 14.6k in R23 with max temps ~ 78 C max, all in the mid to high 70's with a -30 PBO, which is not impressive but in the games I play I'm getting really good performance!



Crylune said:


> Your boost clocks in the middle of R23 look better than mine:
> 
> Yet I score a thousand higher, not sure what's going on.



okay that's weird isn't it?


----------



## 681933

mtbiker033 said:


> I don't think synthetic benchmark scores mean too much for this CPU at all, I have had mine for a week and due to the architecture, it's just how it works, that huge cache is the golden gun with the silver bullet for gaming without any tweaking it just works. Obviously, the cooler you can keep it and faster ram is nice but play some games and see it shine.
> 
> I am getting 14.6k in R23 with max temps ~ 78 C max, all in the mid to high 70's with a -30 PBO, which is not impressive but in the games I play I'm getting really good performance!


Well, yes, I said it before - synthetics, in general, but especially for this CPU are just feel good points, because no matter what, all 5800X3Ds will perform the same in games, where they hit the maximum 4.45 on all cores at all times. After all, this is an explicitly gaming CPU - a 'prototype' one at that with its own special quirks and behavior - *not* a workstation CPU. It's obvious which loads it's meant for.

What will bring a difference is faster memory and in turn faster FCLK but even there, not that much, due to the large L3 cache - timing and subtiming tuning matters more.

I'm happy enough that mine can do -30 on 6 cores and -19 and -24 on the two 'bad' ones, because my 5900X couldn't do more than -15 on any core. It stays nice and cool in games, and always boosting to 4450. Performance has not changed despite all my tuning to get higher synthetic benchmark scores - only a bit when I tuned my timings. Which is my entire point.

Not sure about temperatures and getting better cooling either, because my air cooler is properly mounted and has proper paste application, yet it barely lets out any warm air after hours of stress testing at 80C and over. My 5900X was sitting at 70C and under. Thermal transfer for the X3D is just bad which is no news to anyone.

That being said it is weird seeing the scores be so diverse regardless of temperatures and clocks. That I don't understand, chalked it up to silicon lottery at first, but my results compared to theirs is a bit weird.

Though I suggest to everyone trying to wrap their heads around their X3D not performing as well as others in here (I can't get 15k either), to just stick to enjoying its gaming performance and not worry too much. 100% chance it performs the same as everyone else's chips in what it's meant to do.


----------



## donk165

Crylune said:


> Your boost clocks in the middle of R23 look better than mine:
> 
> Yet I score a thousand higher, not sure what's going on.


Very strange! Well either way, I've got my fans and temps under control now, and my CPU is boosting better than it was on stock, so I'm happy now 🙂

I'll have another play around at some point. I'm on W11 22H2, same as you guys. My RAM is a good chunk slower though, maybe that is what's making the difference? My kit is 3200mhz CL16, so not great. I believe its Samsung B-die, but I've never delved into RAM tweaking.


----------



## 681933

donk165 said:


> Very strange! Well either way, I've got my fans and temps under control now, and my CPU is boosting better than it was on stock, so I'm happy now 🙂
> 
> I'll have another play around at some point. I'm on W11 22H2, same as you guys. My RAM is a good chunk slower though, maybe that is what's making the difference? My kit is 3200mhz CL16, so not great. I believe its Samsung B-die, but I've never delved into RAM tweaking.


Dunno, Cinebench doesn't care too much about memory. If at all.

What's important is tweaking your fan curve with this CPU, that's it. Enjoy that beast.

Also, Samsung B-Die would be 3200 CL14.


----------



## Frosted racquet

donk165 said:


> Here are my readouts in the middle of an R23 run, my score just now was 13989 pts, it was 13773 pts on the first run. Have I just got unlucky on the silicon lottery? 😅


How "clean" is your Windows installation? It could just be a background process sipping away at performance. Might want to try setting the Process Priotiry for CB23 in Task Manager to something higher, maybe Realtime.


----------



## AXi0M

Crylune said:


> Well, yes, I said it before - synthetics, in general, but especially for this CPU are just feel good points, because no matter what, all 5800X3Ds will perform the same in games, where they hit the maximum 4.45 on all cores at all times. After all, this is an explicitly gaming CPU - a 'prototype' one at that with its own special quirks and behavior - *not* a workstation CPU. It's obvious which loads it's meant for.
> 
> What will bring a difference is faster memory and in turn faster FCLK but even there, not that much, due to the large L3 cache - timing and subtiming tuning matters more.
> 
> I'm happy enough that mine can do -30 on 6 cores and -19 and -24 on the two 'bad' ones, because my 5900X couldn't do more than -15 on any core. It stays nice and cool in games, and always boosting to 4450. Performance has not changed despite all my tuning to get higher synthetic benchmark scores - only a bit when I tuned my timings. Which is my entire point.
> 
> Not sure about temperatures and getting better cooling either, because my air cooler is properly mounted and has proper paste application, yet it barely lets out any warm air after hours of stress testing at 80C and over. My 5900X was sitting at 70C and under. Thermal transfer for the X3D is just bad which is no news to anyone.
> 
> That being said it is weird seeing the scores be so diverse regardless of temperatures and clocks. That I don't understand, chalked it up to silicon lottery at first, but my results compared to theirs is a bit weird.
> 
> Though I suggest to everyone trying to wrap their heads around their X3D not performing as well as others in here (I can't get 15k either), to just stick to enjoying its gaming performance and not worry too much. 100% chance it performs the same as everyone else's chips in what it's meant to do.


have you tried R23 in safe mode or clean boot? maybe some background process bringing it down?


----------



## 681933

AXi0M said:


> have you tried R23 in safe mode or clean boot? maybe some background process bringing it down?


I always run R23 without any of my programs running, just regular Windows. Haven't tried safe mode or clean boot.

Also yeah @donk165 are you running R23 with everything else running as well?


----------



## Imprezzion

Crylune said:


> I'll install it and see if anything's changed. I like me some extra power savings.
> 
> Thing is, I have the AMD chipset drivers installed, this won't interfere with the power provisioning plan right?
> 
> EDIT: Okay so it's still sticking around 3.6 GHz at 25W, this plan changed basically nothing.


Ok it didn't quite drop all the way to 19xx but 2290 is fine. I had Chrome with like 30 tabs and Discord open still so..


----------



## Blameless

Need to enable snapshot polling to get a clear picture of effective clocks. Also HWiNFO has overhead and any comparison done with it running need to ensure the same polling rate is used.

Also, performance is not guaranteed to be identical between parts configurations in gaming, even if the CPU can hold 4450. Boost latency, scheduling, and plenty of other variables can impact worst case frame times. Synthetics will usually reveal such issues more clearly, but that doesn't mean they can't have impact in real-world tasks.


----------



## BreadPitch

CPU-Z 6507 / 630
CB23 15304 / 1495

Quite happy. "Kombo Strike 3" = CO -30.
PSS on , CSTATES on, LCLK Auto. CPPC on, CPPC PrefCores off. VCore, LLC, etc all Auto.
PLL 1.7V instead of 1.8 default. All other settings see screenshot, actually below stock values.
No BCLK overclocking.

Watercooled though, still reaching ~82° in CB btw.


----------



## donk165

Frosted racquet said:


> How "clean" is your Windows installation? It could just be a background process sipping away at performance. Might want to try setting the Process Priotiry for CB23 in Task Manager to something higher, maybe Realtime.





Crylune said:


> I always run R23 without any of my programs running, just regular Windows. Haven't tried safe mode or clean boot.
> 
> Also yeah @donk165 are you running R23 with everything else running as well?


I wouldn't say it was bloated, its just a stock W11 installation, and then I have a few background programs like signalRGB running, I'll try closing some stuff down, or run R23 in safe mode and see how that fares. Will report back later, thanks


----------



## Puffdotbusiness

Verangry said:


> For all MSI Users with B550 / X570(s) Boards.
> 
> I Modded the available and latest Bios Files (thanks @Eder for unlocking CBS + PBS Menus for those boards) and unlocked CO + PBO + Voltages for the 5800X3D (use at own risk!).
> 
> Just rename to MSI.ROM for your board and flash it with Flashback.
> 
> The options are available but not everything seems to work (Boostoverride still won't work, if you change anything, the CPU remains at 3600MHz - for me at last).
> 
> X570(s)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AGESA 1207 - Ryzen 5800X3D BIOS MODS for X570 MSI Boards - Google Drive
> 
> 
> AGESA 1207 Bios MODs for 5800X3D Users - Unlocked CBS + PBS by EDER - Voltages, Curve Optimizer, PBO, HPET and OpCache unlocked by myself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B550
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AGESA 1207 - Ryzen 5800X3D BIOS MODS for B550 MSI Boards - Google Drive
> 
> 
> AGESA 1207 Bios MODs for 5800X3D Users (B550) Unlocked CBS + PBS by @Eder Voltages, Curve Optimizer, PBO, HPET and OpCache unlocked by myself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PBO and CO works (even per core), so you wont need any 3rd party tools like SMU Debug Tool or PBO2 Tuner.


Is it possible for this to support the B550i gaming edge board?


----------



## eddie94428

I just bought this cpu and i am loving it but there is only one problem and it seems nobody questioning about it. in ryzen master with this cpu it show only 8 cores but not the all 16. why is that? anyone has this problem?


----------



## Verangry

Puffdotbusiness said:


> Is it possible for this to support the B550i gaming edge board?


I'll add a mod soon.
Will then be found within the same folder as the other B550 Mods.
(or here as direct link B550i Gaming Edge Wifi 5800x3D MOD + CBS + PBS 7C92v1B.zip)


----------



## AXi0M

eddie94428 said:


> I just bought this cpu and i am loving it but there is only one problem and it seems nobody questioning about it. in ryzen master with this cpu it show only 8 cores but not the all 16. why is that? anyone has this problem?


i didn't realize it was a 16 core cpu, good to know


----------



## Imprezzion

eddie94428 said:


> I just bought this cpu and i am loving it but there is only one problem and it seems nobody questioning about it. in ryzen master with this cpu it show only 8 cores but not the all 16. why is that? anyone has this problem?


There are only 8 physical cores. The other are SMT threads.


----------



## eddie94428

Imprezzion said:


> There are only 8 physical cores. The other are SMT threads.


I get that, but so the 3700x is 8 cores and 16 threads and they all show in ryzen master why isn't the 5800x3d? i still don't get it


----------



## Imprezzion

eddie94428 said:


> I get that, but so the 3700x is 8 cores and 16 threads and they all show in ryzen master why isn't the 5800x3d? i still don't get it


You do see 16 in task manager? If not, SMT might be off in the BIOS?


----------



## 681933

AXi0M said:


> i didn't realize it was a 16 core cpu, good to know


5950X3D was real after all...


----------



## donk165

Frosted racquet said:


> How "clean" is your Windows installation? It could just be a background process sipping away at performance. Might want to try setting the Process Priotiry for CB23 in Task Manager to something higher, maybe Realtime.





Crylune said:


> I always run R23 without any of my programs running, just regular Windows. Haven't tried safe mode or clean boot.
> 
> Also yeah @donk165 are you running R23 with everything else running as well?


I ran R23 in safe mode and got 14733 points. I can't check if PBO2 tuner has set the offset, as that and HWinfo wont work in safe mode.
I just tried running R23 at real time priority in normal Windows and got 15174 pts 😳, but my whole pc locks up while the test is running, so I can't see voltages / clockspeeds 😅
With background apps closed, normal priority, I got 14831 pts


So my windows install is a bit bloated, or I need to check what's running in the background!


----------



## 681933

donk165 said:


> I ran R23 in safe mode and got 14733 points. I can't check if PBO2 tuner has set the offset, as that and HWinfo wont work in safe mode.
> I just tried running R23 at real time priority in normal Windows and got 15174 pts 😳, but my whole pc locks up while the test is running, so I can't see voltages / clockspeeds 😅
> With background apps closed, normal priority, I got 14831 pts
> 
> 
> So my windows install is a bit bloated, or I need to check what's running in the background!


Or you could leave everything as is if you're satisfied with your workflow. Some extra points in Cinebench won't translate to real world performance.


----------



## eddie94428

Imprezzion said:


> You do see 16 in task manager? If not, SMT might be off in the BIOS?


There are 16 in task manager only in ryzen master. even msi afterburner shows in game but they are not used at all


----------



## 681933

eddie94428 said:


> There are 16 in task manager only in ryzen master. even msi afterburner shows in game but they are not used at all


Ryzen Master shows physical cores, of which the 5800X3D has exactly 8. Task Manager shows logical cores, and the 5800X3D has 16 of those due to SMT, or "hyper-threading".


----------



## Frosted racquet

Just got my 5800X3D. Using AGESA 1206c, by default scores ~14700 points in Cinebench R23. Scores scale all the way to -30 CO where it scores ~15100 points. But, I can't seem to get 4550MHz single core boost clocks with either R23 single core test or Boost Tester program. I don't remember what was the conclusion to the previous discussion on the topic.
Using CoreCycler with YCruncher Kagari set as the default stress method I can get above 4450MHz, but wondering why other apps don't seem to get there? Using latest chipset drivers on Win 10.


----------



## 681933

Frosted racquet said:


> Just got my 5800X3D. Using AGESA 1206c, by default scores ~14700 points in Cinebench R23. Scores scale all the way to -30 CO where it scores ~15100 points. But, I can't seem to get 4550MHz single core boost clocks with either R23 single core test or Boost Tester program. I don't remember what was the conclusion to the previous discussion on the topic.
> Using CoreCycler with YCruncher Kagari set as the default stress method I can get above 4450MHz, but wondering why other apps don't seem to get there? Using latest chipset drivers on Win 10.


That's normal. It just never does 4.55 for me in any normal workload, only under Corecycler. Seems to be the same for everyone else.


----------



## chrisz5z

Crylune said:


> That's normal. It just never does 4.55 for me in any normal workload, only under Corecycler. Seems to be the same for everyone else.


There's been a few in this thread that claimed to get 4.55 on multiple cores (without BCLK). Not sure how, possibly dependent on BIOs/Motherboard configuration...or even a BIOs bug


----------



## Imprezzion

With CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled on 1.2.0.7 multiple cores do 4550 but not simultaneously. It picks random cores to do it so "max clock" in HWINFO64 shows 4550 on multiple cores. Mine does however boost to 4550 in Cinebench R23 single thread and CPU-Z bench single thread just fine.

Btw, I tried using a negative offset with CO -30 and while it seems to work the effective clocks absolutely tank and so do the scores. It still shows 4450Mhz under load but effective clocks are all over the place and at -0.050 my score went from 15100 all the way down to barely 13700. It was pulling around 1.118v but very low wattage and barely 55c. Weird...


----------



## 681933

Imprezzion said:


> With CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled on 1.2.0.7 multiple cores do 4550 but not simultaneously. It picks random cores to do it so "max clock" in HWINFO64 shows 4550 on multiple cores. Mine does however boost to 4550 in Cinebench R23 single thread and CPU-Z bench single thread just fine.
> 
> Btw, I tried using a negative offset with CO -30 and while it seems to work the effective clocks absolutely tank and so do the scores. It still shows 4450Mhz under load but effective clocks are all over the place and at -0.050 my score went from 15100 all the way down to barely 13700. It was pulling around 1.118v but very low wattage and barely 55c. Weird...


Mine boosts to 4.55 in single thread tests as well. Preferred Cores doesn't change my locked 4.45.

Negative offset of -0.05 combined with CO actually helped my clocks and scores...


----------



## Imprezzion

Crylune said:


> Mine boosts to 4.55 in single thread tests as well. Preferred Cores doesn't change my locked 4.45.
> 
> Negative offset of -0.05 combined with CO actually helped my clocks and scores...


Yeah which is where I got the idea to try it since we have the same BIOS and board pretty much. But it doesn't like it. -0.020 works sort of fine but doesn't improve scores and anything lower just drops effective but not normal readout clocks... Strange.


----------



## BHS1975

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah which is where I got the idea to try it since we have the same BIOS and board pretty much. But it doesn't like it. -0.020 works sort of fine but doesn't improve scores and anything lower just drops effective but not normal readout clocks... Strange.


That's called clock streaching.


----------



## Puffdotbusiness

Verangry said:


> I'll add a mod soon.
> Will then be found within the same folder as the other B550 Mods.
> (or here as direct link B550i Gaming Edge Wifi 5800x3D MOD + CBS + PBS 7C92v1B.zip)


Amazing thank you so much.


----------



## neobpm

Could anyone with a 5800x3d and msi x570 tomahawk show me what are the best settings? At this moment I have KS at 3 and RAM at 3600cl15, rest default or auto.


----------



## Imprezzion

I have decided to YOLO it with 1.2750v vSOC SET and 1.250-1.263v GET on the X3D. The chip was cheap enough that it wouldn't hurt me like my dead 10900KF did which cost easily twice this chip, and I change hardware multiple times a year anyway just because it's a hobby to build stuff so.. if it blows it blows.. a 5800X3D or a used 5900/5950X is so cheap I can temporarily replace it easily and swap to AM5 or Z790 sometime next year. 

So yeah, -30 All-core CO, 1.275v vSOC, 1.15v VDDG IOD and CCD, 1.000 VDDP, 1.50v DRAM at 4000 16-16-16-36-52-320-2T GDM Off 2000 FCLK MCLK 1:1 no WHEA in corecycler or TestMem5 errors overnight.


----------



## Tangenius

How does this affect your R23 scores Imprezzion? Since it is being told high soc voltages take powerbudget away from the cpu since it makes the cpu hotter


----------



## 681933

Imprezzion said:


> I have decided to YOLO it with 1.2750v vSOC SET and 1.250-1.263v GET on the X3D. The chip was cheap enough that it wouldn't hurt me like my dead 10900KF did which cost easily twice this chip, and I change hardware multiple times a year anyway just because it's a hobby to build stuff so.. if it blows it blows.. a 5800X3D or a used 5900/5950X is so cheap I can temporarily replace it easily and swap to AM5 or Z790 sometime next year.
> 
> So yeah, -30 All-core CO, 1.275v vSOC, 1.15v VDDG IOD and CCD, 1.000 VDDP, 1.50v DRAM at 4000 16-16-16-36-52-320-2T GDM Off 2000 FCLK MCLK 1:1 no WHEA in corecycler or TestMem5 errors overnight.


Sounds not worth it but you do you.


----------



## Blameless

Bumped my CPU 1.8v/PLL voltage back to 1.78v set from 1.73v set and it did seem to give a very small (two-tenths of a percent on average), but repeatable performance bump to 7-zip, xmrig, and even a little bit to Cinebench.

Anyway, I'm still at -30 CO, no vcore offset, level 3 core LLC, level 2 SoC LLC, 1.025v SoC set (1.0125v load), 0.85v CLDO VDDP and CPU VDDP, 0.91v VDDG CCD, and 0.96v VDDG IOD. Cooling is a Noctua NH-U12A with a single fan. Both CPU and cooler are lapped. 100MHz BCLK.

No excess background tasks running, but not safe mode, not a clean boot, and prefetchers are enabled (disabling them hurts most of my actual use cases):









y-cruncher HNT is one of the hotter tests and one of the few things benefits from disabling LCLK DPM at my current settings. Bounces between ~4350 and ~4400MHz in HNT.



Crylune said:


> That's normal. It just never does 4.55 for me in any normal workload, only under Corecycler. Seems to be the same for everyone else.


No more than three cores can be awake for it to boost to the 45.5x multiplier.

There are real work loads that can do this, but only if nothing else is being done on the system and certain power/timer/interrupt variables are set a certain way. Problem is, serialized timers/interrupts and settings that keep cores from coming out of C6 at the drop of a hat make pretty much everything else slower.



Imprezzion said:


> I have decided to YOLO it with 1.2750v vSOC SET and 1.250-1.263v GET on the X3D. The chip was cheap enough that it wouldn't hurt me like my dead 10900KF did which cost easily twice this chip, and I change hardware multiple times a year anyway just because it's a hobby to build stuff so.. if it blows it blows.. a 5800X3D or a used 5900/5950X is so cheap I can temporarily replace it easily and swap to AM5 or Z790 sometime next year.
> 
> So yeah, -30 All-core CO, 1.275v vSOC, 1.15v VDDG IOD and CCD, 1.000 VDDP, 1.50v DRAM at 4000 16-16-16-36-52-320-2T GDM Off 2000 FCLK MCLK 1:1 no WHEA in corecycler or TestMem5 errors overnight.


How much faster is it than a fully tuned, but more conservative, FCLK?

There are a few areas where I could probably stabilize my part at higher values (FCLK, or BCLK), but the concessions required to make them work leave me with the same or less real-world performance. I'd probably need a new cooler and a delid to improve further, with unconditional stability.


----------



## Imprezzion

Blameless said:


> Bumped my CPU 1.8v/PLL voltage back to 1.78v set from 1.73v set and it did seem to give a very small (two-tenths of a percent on average), but repeatable performance bump to 7-zip, xmrig, and even a little bit to Cinebench.
> 
> Anyway, I'm still at -30 CO, no vcore offset, level 3 core LLC, level 2 SoC LLC, 1.025v SoC set (1.0125v load), 0.85v CLDO VDDP and CPU VDDP, 0.91v VDDG CCD, and 0.96v VDDG IOD. Cooling is a Noctua NH-U12A with a single fan. Both CPU and cooler are lapped. 100MHz BCLK.
> 
> No excess background tasks running, but not safe mode, not a clean boot, and prefetchers are enabled (disabling them hurts most of my actual use cases):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> y-cruncher HNT is one of the hotter tests and one of the few things benefits from disabling LCLK DPM at my current settings. Bounces between ~4350 and ~4400MHz in HNT.
> 
> 
> 
> No more than three cores can be awake for it to boost to the 45.5x multiplier.
> 
> There are real work loads that can do this, but only if nothing else is being done on the system and certain power/timer/interrupt variables are set a certain way. Problem is, serialized timers/interrupts and settings that keep cores from coming out of C6 at the drop of a hat make pretty much everything else slower.
> 
> 
> 
> How much faster is it than a fully tuned, but more conservative, FCLK?
> 
> There are a few areas where I could probably stabilize my part at higher values (FCLK, or BCLK), but the concessions required to make them work leave me with the same or less real-world performance. I'd probably need a new cooler and a delid to improve further, with unconditional stability.


CPU wise, basically not faster at all. Maybe like 50 points in R23 at best. RAM wise, a lot. Over 2ns latency and 2-4GB/s bandwidth allround compared to the next highest stable "safe" settings. 

My B-Die bin is quite bad so I can't do the usual 3800 straight 14's people normally run. The most efficient these DIMMs can run frequency / timing wise is 4000C16 or 4400C17. So I need that vSOC to be WHEA free at 2000 FCLK. And yes, I know 3800 15-15-15 should be just fine but still... Latency and write speeds are trash at that speed.. I could of course just het better b-die and run a safe profile. But where's the fun in that.


----------



## bernek

I'm using PBOTuner2 to set -25 to all cores. Is this a bad idea ? I just to get the max out of this chip and temps are ok. Can -25 affect its boost negatively ? Thanks.


----------



## Fab7

neobpm said:


> Could anyone with a 5800x3d and msi x570 tomahawk show me what are the best settings? At this moment I have KS at 3 and RAM at 3600cl15, rest default or auto.


I have 5800x3d and msi x570 tomahawk too .
Kombo Strike at 3 was super stable , but when i tried the in-game bench of Battlefield Hardline the PC has freeze.
Now i am on Kombo Strike at 2 and no problem .
Of course it's maybe CPU silicon lottery.


----------



## Frosted racquet

bernek said:


> I'm using PBOTuner2 to set -25 to all cores. Is this a bad idea ? I just to get the max out of this chip and temps are ok. Can -25 affect its boost negatively ? Thanks.


You need to test in some benchmark, because every CPU is different. Use Cinebench for example and compare results for -15, -20, -25, -30


----------



## Tangenius

Did someone actually delid a 5800X3D? Would love to see what it looks like under there.


----------



## Fab7

It's on the internet , click and scroll :


http://imgur.com/a/cGlFSKi


----------



## Imprezzion

So, 71w ppt direct die liquid metal and it still hit 81.6c. I know it's mITX but still. That does not look like worthwhile temp improvement at all.


----------



## neobpm

Fab7 said:


> I have 5800x3d and msi x570 tomahawk too .
> Kombo Strike at 3 was super stable , but when i tried the in-game bench of Battlefield Hardline the PC has freeze.
> Now i am on Kombo Strike at 2 and no problem .
> Of course it's maybe CPU silicon lottery.


In my case, KS3 is stable in some games, buy not in all. I will return to KS2, but I'm asking for other settings to improve performance and temperatures.


----------



## bernek

Frosted racquet said:


> You need to test in some benchmark, because every CPU is different. Use Cinebench for example and compare results for -15, -20, -25, -30


Also I've tried BCLK 101 MHz overclock and everything seems fine. At 102 BCLK even 101.5 some devices stop working properly (I guess the ram dont have much time to test) and at 101.25 MHz some instability. I guess running 101 BCLK with a -CO value (that I will search for using multithreaded runs of CB23) I think would be fine.


----------



## 681933

Imprezzion said:


> So, 71w ppt direct die liquid metal and it still hit 81.6c. I know it's mITX but still. That does not look like worthwhile temp improvement at all.


People focus too much on cooling a CPU that has bad thermal transfer to begin with... lol. If my air cooler was actually spewing out scorching hot air, I would've considered a cooling upgrade - but it barely gets warm.


----------



## Brocky

Hi,

I’m not crazy into all this overclocking or RAM tuning, but I have the following results:

Windows 10 - Debloated and optimised for performance/gaming
MSI B550 Gaming Plus
ADATA XPG Spectrix D60G RGB LED 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200MHz (PC4-25600) DIMM Memory (Micron-B die I believe? checking now..)
BeQuiet Dark Rock 4 Air Cooler
CPPC is Enabled
CPPC Preferred Cores is Disabled
Global C-State Control is Enabled

First run is stock RAM (no XMP), and stock CPU:












Second run is stock RAM (no XMP), with -30 on all cores on PBO2. Doesn’t seem to undervolt as much as I would of thought, temps reduce by about 8-10C roughly.












This is a screenshot of ZenTiming. I don’t really know how to overclock RAM, and the github AMD Ram overclocking guide is too in-depth for me lol. I don’t think it’s the best RAM out there though by far. I did try running it at 3600mhz but the system refuses to boot, probably due to timing of which I know nothing about really. I would like to overclock RAM slightly, but not to the extremes.











Any tips/advice on either CPU or beginners RAM overclocking? Thanks


----------



## bernek

Crylune said:


> People focus too much on cooling a CPU that has bad thermal transfer to begin with... lol. If my air cooler was actually spewing out scorching hot air, I would've considered a cooling upgrade - but it barely gets warm.


I have a NH-D15S and it works wonders I dont even think I should add another fan. 120mm would be the biggest I could add since I have stupid tall ram sticks ...

But what about BCLK OC nobody does it ? maybe 101 102 ? 101.5 ?


----------



## bernek

Brocky said:


> Any tips/advice on either CPU or beginners RAM overclocking? Thanks


Something is not right because I score with the same chip much higher in CB multithread 14853


----------



## Brocky

bernek said:


> Something is not right because I score with the same chip much higher in CB multithread 14853
> 
> View attachment 2590408


Just looked and Cinebench for me says 6 cores, 12 Threads @ 3.4Ghz? Is that normal? Task Manager also reports the same


----------



## bernek

Brocky said:


> Just looked and Cinebench for me says 6 cores, 12 Threads @ 3.4Ghz? Is that normal? Task Manager also reports the same


Maybe you played in bios and disabled some  ofc its not ok it should say 8c 16t. Did you enable some gaming options that might disable cores ? Do a bios reset for sure. When did you install the CPU did you reset bios ?


----------



## Imprezzion

Brocky said:


> Just looked and Cinebench for me says 6 cores, 12 Threads @ 3.4Ghz? Is that normal? Task Manager also reports the same


Nope, it's an 8 core 16 thread CPU so something must be disabling cores. Either BIOS doesn't have all cores enabled or Windows doesn't. 

Stock XMP around 14400 is what you can expect. -30 CO around 14900. With properly tuned RAM and IF 15100.


----------



## Brocky

Thanks both, will re-install drivers, see if that works, if not reset bios. Only touched the CPPC bits etc.

EDIT: AMD Chipset drivers failed and wont install.


----------



## bernek

Brocky said:


> Thanks both, will re-install drivers, see if that works, if not reset bios. Only touched the CPPC bits etc.
> 
> EDIT: AMD Chipset drivers failed and wont install.


Dont reinstall drivers they have nothing to do with this imho. Just reset the bios and check if all cores are active.


----------



## Brocky

Reset the BIOS and still showing 6c/12t. Running 7C56v19.

Installed Ryzen Master and after restart I have 8 Cores showing. Would never of noticed this! Will re-test and upload results again for advice.


----------



## Brocky

So back to it lol:

I’m not crazy into all this overclocking or RAM tuning, but I have the following results:

Windows 10 - Debloated and optimised for performance/gaming
MSI B550 Gaming Plus
ADATA XPG Spectrix D60G RGB LED 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200MHz (PC4-25600) DIMM Memory (Micron-B die)
BeQuiet Dark Rock 4 Air Cooler
CPPC is Enabled
CPPC Preferred Cores is Disabled
Global C-State Control is Enabled
-- First run with stock RAM (no XMP, apologies I actually was using XMP on previous post), and stock CPU, score of ~14,600 and max temp of around 78C
-- Second run with stock RAM (no XMP), with -30 on all cores on PBO2, good score of around 15,100, but the PC reboots on what seems to be low load which leads me to believe it is not stable?

This is a screenshot of ZenTiming. I don’t really know how to overclock RAM, and the github AMD Ram overclocking guide is too in-depth for me lol. I don’t think it’s the best RAM out there though by far. I did try running it at 3600mhz but the system refuses to boot, probably due to timing of which I know nothing about really. I would like to overclock RAM slightly, but not to the extremes.










Any tips/advice on beginners RAM overclocking or timing to test/try? Thanks


----------



## AXi0M

Brocky said:


> Hi,
> 
> I’m not crazy into all this overclocking or RAM tuning, but I have the following results:
> 
> Windows 10 - Debloated and optimised for performance/gaming
> MSI B550 Gaming Plus
> ADATA XPG Spectrix D60G RGB LED 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200MHz (PC4-25600) DIMM Memory (Micron-B die I believe? checking now..)
> BeQuiet Dark Rock 4 Air Cooler
> CPPC is Enabled
> CPPC Preferred Cores is Disabled
> Global C-State Control is Enabled
> 
> First run is stock RAM (no XMP), and stock CPU:
> 
> View attachment 2590405
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Second run is stock RAM (no XMP), with -30 on all cores on PBO2. Doesn’t seem to undervolt as much as I would of thought, temps reduce by about 8-10C roughly.
> 
> View attachment 2590406
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a screenshot of ZenTiming. I don’t really know how to overclock RAM, and the github AMD Ram overclocking guide is too in-depth for me lol. I don’t think it’s the best RAM out there though by far. I did try running it at 3600mhz but the system refuses to boot, probably due to timing of which I know nothing about really. I would like to overclock RAM slightly, but not to the extremes.
> 
> View attachment 2590407
> 
> 
> 
> Any tips/advice on either CPU or beginners RAM overclocking? Thanks


First of all your FCLK:MCLK:UCLK are not sync'd and second you don't need such a high SOC for that low infinity fabric speed


----------



## AXi0M

Brocky said:


> So back to it lol:
> 
> I’m not crazy into all this overclocking or RAM tuning, but I have the following results:
> 
> Windows 10 - Debloated and optimised for performance/gaming
> MSI B550 Gaming Plus
> ADATA XPG Spectrix D60G RGB LED 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200MHz (PC4-25600) DIMM Memory (Micron-B die)
> BeQuiet Dark Rock 4 Air Cooler
> CPPC is Enabled
> CPPC Preferred Cores is Disabled
> Global C-State Control is Enabled
> -- First run with stock RAM (no XMP, apologies I actually was using XMP on previous post), and stock CPU, score of ~14,600 and max temp of around 78C
> -- Second run with stock RAM (no XMP), with -30 on all cores on PBO2, good score of around 15,100, but the PC reboots on what seems to be low load which leads me to believe it is not stable?
> 
> This is a screenshot of ZenTiming. I don’t really know how to overclock RAM, and the github AMD Ram overclocking guide is too in-depth for me lol. I don’t think it’s the best RAM out there though by far. I did try running it at 3600mhz but the system refuses to boot, probably due to timing of which I know nothing about really. I would like to overclock RAM slightly, but not to the extremes.
> 
> View attachment 2590419
> 
> 
> Any tips/advice on beginners RAM overclocking or timing to test/try? Thanks


just no lol


----------



## Brocky

Well, I'd like to run it at 3600, pretty sure it can do it, but as I say, not particulary my expertise, however you would probably say well best you just leave it alone then . FYI this is full stock set by the BIOS, I have't touched it as I've just reset the CMOS.


----------



## 681933

Well I just got and installed my 4090 and I can confirm the 5800X3D carries it like a dream, full 99% GPU utilization all the time. There is also no coil whine on this specific Suprim X model, loving it. Can't believe I was about to throw out my Seasonic because ASUS used crappy coils.


----------



## Imprezzion

Then the BIOS does an absolutely piss poor job with the Auto setup. Micron B-Die, especially such a low spec kit, will run 3600 but requires a LOT of tuning to get it right. Start at 16-20-20-40-60-560-2T GDM Off 1.35-1.40v, it might take it.. if not 18-20-20-42-62-580-2T maybe?


----------



## Brocky

Imprezzion said:


> Then the BIOS does an absolutely piss poor job with the Auto setup. Micron B-Die, especially such a low spec kit, will run 3600 but requires a LOT of tuning to get it right. Start at 16-20-20-40-60-560-2T GDM Off 1.35-1.40v, it might take it.. if not 18-20-20-42-62-580-2T maybe?


Thanks, will have a play around them figures and see what happens.


----------



## Imprezzion

Crylune said:


> Sounds not worth it but you do you.


Ok, I held back a bit and re-did my entire OC again and so far this seems quite a lot better. Seriously low vSOC and VDDG and no WHEA's yet. Latency is incredible for 2T. Write is fine. 1.50v vDIMM btw.


----------



## AXi0M

Imprezzion said:


> Ok, I held back a bit and re-did my entire OC again and so far this seems quite a lot better. Seriously low vSOC and VDDG and no WHEA's yet. Latency is incredible for 2T. Write is fine. 1.50v vDIMM btw.
> 
> View attachment 2590422


would 25 tRAS and 40 tRC work? also you *should* be able to set your DD's to 1 (i might be mistaken)


----------



## jonnyzeraa

Crylune said:


> Well I just got and installed my 4090 and I can confirm the 5800X3D carries it like a dream, full 99% GPU utilization all the time. There is also no coil whine on this specific Suprim X model, loving it. Can't believe I was about to throw out my Seasonic because ASUS used crappy coils.


Good to know, my 4090 will be delivered monday ( since they delayed the shipment ) u use the 5800x3d+rtx 4090 in 1080p / 1440p or 4K?


----------



## Blameless

Difference between my usual fake 1T and 2T on my setup (slightly older screen for the first image, but it's still accurate):


















Not going to bench true 1T because it's not stable enough for me to want to let it boot into Windows if I didn't just make a backup, but last time I tried it it shaved off another 0.3ns or so.


----------



## Blameless

Crylune said:


> People focus too much on cooling a CPU that has bad thermal transfer to begin with... lol. If my air cooler was actually spewing out scorching hot air, I would've considered a cooling upgrade - but it barely gets warm.


That's exactly what delidding helps with. That extra thermal interface and ~3mm of copper is a lot of added thermal resistance at these densities.

Another 10C would be the difference between 100 and 102.5MHz BCLK being stable at full boost on my setup. Not a huge improvement, but a bigger improvement than any other single adjustment.



Brocky said:


> Second run is stock RAM (no XMP), with -30 on all cores on PBO2. Doesn’t seem to undervolt as much as I would of thought, temps reduce by about 8-10C roughly.


A negative curve doesn't imply a direct undervolt, it just skews the curve. Generally you'll be boost limited by temps, so a negative curve value mostly results in more stable boost clocks with a rather mild voltage reduction.



Imprezzion said:


> Ok, I held back a bit and re-did my entire OC again and so far this seems quite a lot better. Seriously low vSOC and VDDG and no WHEA's yet. Latency is incredible for 2T. Write is fine. 1.50v vDIMM btw.
> 
> View attachment 2590422


I've never seen a dual-rank B-die setup where the optimal settings involved disabling RttNom. Might want to do another tuning pass on your Rtts and DrvStr.

WHEA free, 1967 FCLK with 1.1125v SoC and 0.98 VDDG is pretty good though.


----------



## Owterspace

Crylune said:


> People focus too much on cooling a CPU that has bad thermal transfer to begin with... lol. If my air cooler was actually spewing out scorching hot air, I would've considered a cooling upgrade - but it barely gets warm.


X3D runs so cool I can run it semi passively in my setup. [email protected], WCG, everything stable. Using just the stock 2 fractal fans on my torrent, and no fans on my FC140.


----------



## Imprezzion

Blameless said:


> That's exactly what delidding helps with. That extra thermal interface and ~3mm of copper is a lot of added thermal resistance at these densities.
> 
> Another 10C would be the difference between 100 and 102.5MHz BCLK being stable at full boost on my setup. Not a huge improvement, but a bigger improvement than any other single adjustment.
> 
> 
> 
> A negative curve doesn't imply a direct undervolt, it just skews the curve. Generally you'll be boost limited by temps, so a negative curve value mostly results in more stable boost clocks with a rather mild voltage reduction.
> 
> 
> 
> I've never seen a dual-rank B-die setup where the optimal settings involved disabling RttNom. Might want to do another tuning pass on your Rtts and DrvStr.
> 
> WHEA free, 1967 FCLK with 1.1125v SoC and 0.98 VDDG is pretty good though.


It was whea free in TM5 and CB R23 but not in y-cruncher. It needed 1.150v vSOC and a bit more IOD for y-cruncher to behave. 

RTTNom disabled is what the board sets as Auto and DOCP. And so far it has worked just fine for most things. What would be optimal then for ProcODT 32? I assume 7/3/1?


----------



## Brocky

Beginner so go easy, got this so far, seems pretty good given it's bang average RAM. Any suggestions? Micron B-Die


----------



## Frosted racquet

For those running PBO2 Tool at startup, how do you have it configured so it applies on wake up from sleep or hibernation?


----------



## Brocky

Frosted racquet said:


> For those running PBO2 Tool at startup, how do you have it configured so it applies on wake up from sleep or hibernation?


See here: GitHub - PrimeO7/How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner: Get the Most out of your 5800X3D using PBO Curve Optimizer!

I believe you can edit it to do it on Sleep / Hibernation too rather than just power on


----------



## Blameless

Imprezzion said:


> RTTNom disabled is what the board sets as Auto and DOCP. And so far it has worked just fine for most things. What would be optimal then for ProcODT 32? I assume 7/3/1?


I'd probablly start with 7/3/3 or 6/3/3 and tune from there.


----------



## Fab7

Imprezzion said:


> RTTNom disabled is what the board sets as Auto and DOCP.


Same here , RttNom Disabled ( i have the exact same RAM as you )

I have found this post :




TheBoom said:


> Just to add a side note gathered from other research, if you have dual rank dimms always set rtt nom to 0 or disabled. Iirc it’s in microns spec sheet data as well.
> 
> Edit : big oof, it should be rttnom disabled not park for DR.


----------



## Tangenius

Imprezzion said:


> So, 71w ppt direct die liquid metal and it still hit 81.6c. I know it's mITX but still. That does not look like worthwhile temp improvement at all.


I was thinking exactly the same. I'm also wondering why it looks exactly the same as a delidded 5800x at first glance


----------



## Frosted racquet

OK, this is weird. If I start Firefox, CB23 won't boost to 4550MHz single core (locked to 4450MHz), but if I close Firefox it boosts to 4550. dafuq


----------



## Blameless

Fab7 said:


> Same here , RttNom Disabled ( i have the exact same RAM as you )
> 
> I have found this post :


That recommendation comes from an interpretation of this table:









It's also, generally speaking, wrong. It shouldn't be a surprise that stock/Auto variables are often sub-optimal, especially when running well outside official specifications.

It's true that disabling RttNom can save a small amount of power. However, using all available termination resistances will generally improve the data eye of pretty much any memory setup, allowing less voltage, and lower overall termination resistance to be used, which will save way more power/heat.

There are certainly some single rank setups that don't need or don't benefit meaningfully from using all the termination values, but it's exceptionally rare for dual-rank Samsung B-die to not see at least some benefit, even with only one DIMM per channel.



Tangenius said:


> I'm also wondering why it looks exactly the same as a delidded 5800x at first glance


There is no reason for them to look different.

They both feature the same IOD and CCD, but the Vermeer-X CCD was ground down further to expose the v-cache TSVs, then a v-cache die and pair of small structural dies were bonded to it, returning it to the same height as a non-X CCD, then encapsulated. You'd need a clear shot of it at relatively high magnification, when it was completely clean of soldier or other TIM to see any difference; even then you might need to sand the surface off.



Frosted racquet said:


> OK, this is weird. If I start Firefox, CB23 won't boost to 4550MHz single core (locked to 4450MHz), but if I close Firefox it boosts to 4550. dafuq


Firefox is not zero load. It's evidently keeping enough other cores from entering the C6 state to cap boost at 44.5x.


----------



## chrisz5z

Blameless said:


> Another 10C would be the difference between 100 and 102.5MHz BCLK being stable at full boost on my setup. Not a huge improvement, but a bigger improvement than any other single adjustment.


How do you even get it to boost with increased BCLK? Anything above 100MHz & mine won't budge past 3.4GHz. I'm running it on a 420mm rad so I have plenty of thermal headroom.


----------



## AXi0M

Seems that overtime my FCLK has degraded a bit. For the last few months I've been running 1933mhz @1.1v SOC & 1v VDDG's with no WHEA's at all, but just tested again and it's spitting out errors at the same setting I've used for months and even all the way up to 1.2v SOC.

I've gone down to 1900mhz @1.05v and all seems good after a couple hours of Y-Cruncher


----------



## StevieRay2

Is 1.1 VSOC and 1v VDDGs even high enough to degrade anything? Thought people ran/run those on non 3D and higher for years and no degradation.


----------



## AXi0M

StevieRay2 said:


> Is 1.1 VSOC and 1v VDDGs even high enough to degrade anything? Thought people ran/run those on non 3D and higher for years and no degradation.


I'm not saying those settings are dangerous, just that i can no longer get 1933 stable at those settings or even higher settings. So it's clearly degraded to some extent.


----------



## Owterspace

1.1v is what mine defaults to at 1800 for all of my zen 3 parts.


----------



## Blameless

chrisz5z said:


> How do you even get it to boost with increased BCLK? Anything above 100MHz & mine won't budge past 3.4GHz. I'm running it on a 420mm rad so I have plenty of thermal headroom.


That sounds like a firmware issue. I don't have this problem on my ASRock boards. Haven't checked my MSI or Gigabyte boards with BCLK OCing on the X3D.


----------



## Nd4spdvn

Blameless said:


> That sounds like a firmware issue. I don't have this problem on my ASRock boards. Haven't checked my MSI or Gigabyte boards with BCLK OCing on the X3D.


I think so too. I have no issues with mine at 102 BCLK on Giga B550 Aorus Pro V2.


----------



## ludovicoleone

I can pass TM5 extreme and OCCT but y-cruncher gives me pc reset without any error or anything. What should I do? Should I worry about anything? co all -25, and my ram is tuned.


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, my ASUS B550-A with the latest 1.2.0.7 also gets stuck at 34 at any manual BCLK, his is a Gigabyte. It's odd..


----------



## Frosted racquet

ludovicoleone said:


> I can pass TM5 extreme and OCCT but y-cruncher gives me pc reset without any error or anything. What should I do? Should I worry about anything? co all -25, and my ram is tuned.


You should tweak the CO, it's unstable obviously. Check Event Viewer for WHEA errors to see which core is unstable.


----------



## chrisz5z

Blameless said:


> That sounds like a firmware issue. I don't have this problem on my ASRock boards. Haven't checked my MSI or Gigabyte boards with BCLK OCing on the X3D.


Yea, well that figures lol....i haven't been real impressed with the range of options in the BIOs on this Gigabyte board.


----------



## 681933

StevieRay2 said:


> Is 1.1 VSOC and 1v VDDGs even high enough to degrade anything? Thought people ran/run those on non 3D and higher for years and no degradation.


No - SoC only degrades at 1.25v or higher. But the lower the better. I run 3600 MT/s / 1800 FCLK at pretty conservative voltages.


----------



## bernek

Is ram speed that important with 5800X3D ? I have a crappy Corsair 2x16GB kit 3600 XMP and I can't even make it work at 3800 ... I was dreaming to get 4000 so FCLK would be 2000MHz ... I dont even know what vales to try  also I have no clue what chips are on the memory. But I think Micron since Samsung would have allowed at least a bit of OC. Is there a noob guide for RAM tweaks/OC ?

















I don't know what this Nanya is ... What values could I try to get 3800 or 4000 ?


----------



## 681933

bernek said:


> Is ram speed that important with 5800X3D


No, frequency barely makes a difference due to the large L3 cache. But tuning timings still nets you more performance, especially tRC, tFAW and tRFC.

Start here: MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper (github.com)

Do not bother with the Ryzen DRAM Calculator, or any of 1usmus' toys...


----------



## neobpm

Anyone with Crucial Ballsitix Max? Mine are 4000cl18 and I have these settings:


imagenes hd para

But I have bad Aida64 response results, how I can improve it?


----------



## AXi0M

AXi0M said:


> Seems that overtime my FCLK has degraded a bit. For the last few months I've been running 1933mhz @1.1v SOC & 1v VDDG's with no WHEA's at all, but just tested again and it's spitting out errors at the same setting I've used for months and even all the way up to 1.2v SOC.
> 
> I've gone down to 1900mhz @1.05v and all seems good after a couple hours of Y-Cruncher
> 
> View attachment 2590474


Back to 1933 and not throwing WHEA's anymore (so confused). Hopefully it sticks.


----------



## Blameless

bernek said:


> Is ram speed that important with 5800X3D ?


Not really. It helps, of course, but not to nearly the same degree as it does with plain Vermeer or most other platforms.



bernek said:


> I don't know what this Nanya is


Nanya is a DRAM manufacturer. They don't seem to be a common IC choice for DDR4 and it will likely be difficult to get information on them, so you're probably on your own as far as tuning them goes. You could ask around here to see if any one has any advice on where to start.


----------



## Imprezzion

They are very similar to Micron E timing wise and OC wise with the exception that the Nanya's can handle tighter tRFC in general. 3600 16-20-20 is mostly doable on stock voltages and with a bit of tweaking 3600 16-18-18 is expected. I could do it around 1.40-1.41v with a generic Vengeance 3200C16 kit with these Nanya's on it.

Btw. Local e-tailers have a lot of AM4 boards in a massive clearance sale now.. I am really considering picking up a MSI B550 Unify-X for like €199... Should I? I mean I am running 2x16 b-die which love 2 DIMM boards and I could use the extra M.2 slots and USB-C header...


----------



## Blameless

Imprezzion said:


> They are very similar to Micron E timing wise and OC wise with the exception that the Nanya's can handle tighter tRFC in general. 3600 16-20-20 is mostly doable on stock voltages and with a bit of tweaking 3600 16-18-18 is expected. I could do it around 1.40-1.41v with a generic Vengeance 3200C16 kit with these Nanya's on it.


Good to know.



Imprezzion said:


> I am really considering picking up a MSI B550 Unify-X for like €199... Should I?


That's pretty much the board to have (outside of some still ridiculously priced ASUS boards) for memory tuning and if you can get 2000 FCLK out of your CPU, it might be fun. On the other hand, the practical gains will still be marginal and your current memory doesn't seem all that great. If you didn't have an AM4 board at all, I'd say go for it, but in your current situation, it mostly seems wasteful.


----------



## Frosted racquet

Just to verify, logical core 6 in YCruncher is physical core 3 in PBO2 Tuner?

Edit: to answer my own question, yes it is.


----------



## Fab7

Imprezzion said:


> Btw. Local e-tailers have a lot of AM4 boards in a massive clearance sale now.. I am really considering picking up a MSI B550 Unify-X for like €199... Should I?


It's up to you 



https://www.megekko.nl/product/4286/1129397/AMD-Socket-AM4-Moederborden/MSI-MEG-B550-UNIFY-X-moederbord?utm_source=tradetracker&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=GPUTracker.eu&utm_term=


----------



## Imprezzion

Blameless said:


> Good to know.
> 
> 
> 
> That's pretty much the board to have (outside of some still ridiculously priced ASUS boards) for memory tuning and if you can get 2000 FCLK out of your CPU, it might be fun. On the other hand, the practical gains will still be marginal and your current memory doesn't seem all that great. If you didn't have an AM4 board at all, I'd say go for it, but in your current situation, it mostly seems wasteful.


I see what you mean. I would do it more for the extra M.2 and USB-C front panel header which my current board doesn't have at all but that still wouldn't be worth like 100 bucks if i sell this board for 100 used..

Btw, this seems a lot better. I am making a power efficient profile besides my balls to the wall 3933 profile. It's nice how low I can go with VDDG / vSOC on 1900 lol. It's still on 2T GDM Off so latency could be better plus 1.450v vDIMM so tRFC is on the edge and can't drop tWTR or tRDWR/RRD any lower on 1.450v but it's stable as is. 5h TM5 overnight passed.










Look at my idle consumption on the X3D with the Balanced LowPower custom power profile lol.
It just sits right at 24w package and 12w core+soc now. CPPC Enabled, Preferred Cores Disabled.


----------



## nx1987

Fab7 said:


> It's up to you
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.megekko.nl/product/4286/1129397/AMD-Socket-AM4-Moederborden/MSI-MEG-B550-UNIFY-X-moederbord?utm_source=tradetracker&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=GPUTracker.eu&utm_term=


sadly the are not shipping to the germany only NL and Belgium, its nice price for that board, For same Board in Germany i will pay 345 euro sad


----------



## Imprezzion

Fab7 said:


> It's up to you
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.megekko.nl/product/4286/1129397/AMD-Socket-AM4-Moederborden/MSI-MEG-B550-UNIFY-X-moederbord?utm_source=tradetracker&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=GPUTracker.eu&utm_term=


Yeah that's the one I saw on Tweakers and the normal X570 one is 199... Considering I paid like 149 for my B550-A which has no features at all it is really hard to say no to this Unify-X...


----------



## Fab7

I have buy this board but i changed my mind , i will go for Zen 4 X3D , so i gonna send it back sadly. ( it's still boxed )


----------



## nx1987

Fab7 said:


> I have buy this board but i changed my mind , i will go for Zen 4 X3D , so i gonna send it back sadly. ( it's still boxed )


Why, whats the Problem?


----------



## Fab7

No problem but i will go for Zen 4 X3D , so i keep my x570 Tomahawk for now .


----------



## nx1987

Fab7 said:


> No problem but i will go for Zen 4 X3D , so i keep my x570 Tomahawk for now .


Send it to me


----------



## Fab7

I can , gonna check the shipping fees if you want .

EDIT : Displays Price Calculator Search Result | bpost


----------



## striker3

I have just bought 5800x3d today and gonna try it tomorrow i upgraded from 3800x gonna use it with b450 pro carbon . the package arrived good from outside but the inside plastic is bent . the cpu it self is fine I don't know how . so any recommendation or settings to get the best of it or making temp better . I am using noctua u12s . the gpu 6900xt and b-die gskill ram


----------



## MrHoof

Had some fun today with timespy. 1st for 5800x3d with 7900xt merc 310
RAM oc worth sometimes 
Edit: Difference between 12.6k vs 13.1k is no curver optimizer vs -30








I scored 24 592 in Time Spy


AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com




'


----------



## 681933

MrHoof said:


> Had some fun today with timespy. 1st for 5800x3d with 7900xt merc 310
> RAM oc worth sometimes
> Edit: Difference between 12.6k vs 13.1k is no curver optimizer vs -30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 24 592 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> '
> View attachment 2590577


Nice CPU score, but can ya beat this GPU score









I scored 28 907 in Time Spy


AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## Frosted racquet

Frosted racquet said:


> OK, this is weird. If I start Firefox, CB23 won't boost to 4550MHz single core (locked to 4450MHz), but if I close Firefox it boosts to 4550. dafuq





Blameless said:


> Firefox is not zero load. It's evidently keeping enough other cores from entering the C6 state to cap boost at 44.5x.


Even starting mpc-hc and *pausing* the video caps the multiplier to 44.5, ***. That's absolutely not normal.
Can you guy check on your systems?


----------



## tabascosauz

Imprezzion said:


> Btw. Local e-tailers have a lot of AM4 boards in a massive clearance sale now.. I am really considering picking up a MSI B550 Unify-X for like €199... Should I? I mean I am running 2x16 b-die which love 2 DIMM boards and I could use the extra M.2 slots and USB-C header...





Blameless said:


> That's pretty much the board to have (outside of some still ridiculously priced ASUS boards) for memory tuning and if you can get 2000 FCLK out of your CPU, it might be fun. On the other hand, the practical gains will still be marginal and your current memory doesn't seem all that great. If you didn't have an AM4 board at all, I'd say go for it, but in your current situation, it mostly seems wasteful.


As for Unify-X, it was an excellent board for 5900X (very consistent memory results and CPU results there on 1203) but I struggled to make it work for 5800X3D. SOC power draw quite high (easily 3-4W higher at all times compared to Impact), on any AGESA.

The 1206 BIOS accidentally had PBO, but no CO. The 1207 BIOS introduced KS, but no more PBO. I tried verangry's modded BIOS but I just could not get performance up to where I needed it to be.

Memory perf is obviously good but you are still paying about as much as I did a year and a half ago - not what I'd describe as a great deal. The 14 x TDA21490 VRM is utterly wasted on the 5800X3D - at least with the 5900X I could do some nice 200W+ benching under water.

If you can already do 2000MHz on the Strix-A, Unify-X might be interesting. If not, don't expect a board change to improve FCLK.

Also, the middle 2 M.2 slots are very gimmicky due to the chipset/CPU switch they implemented. It's a great bench board, but if you intend to daily it with a lot of storage/devices, might wanna save your money.


----------



## Imprezzion

tabascosauz said:


> As for Unify-X, it was an excellent board for 5900X (very consistent memory results and CPU results there on 1203) but I struggled to make it work for 5800X3D. SOC power draw quite high (easily 3-4W higher at all times compared to Impact), on any AGESA.
> 
> The 1206 BIOS accidentally had PBO, but no CO. The 1207 BIOS introduced KS, but no more PBO. I tried verangry's modded BIOS but I just could not get performance up to where I needed it to be.
> 
> Memory perf is obviously good but you are still paying about as much as I did a year and a half ago - not what I'd describe as a great deal. The 14 x TDA21490 VRM is utterly wasted on the 5800X3D - at least with the 5900X I could do some nice 200W+ benching under water.
> 
> If you can already do 2000MHz on the Strix-A, Unify-X might be interesting. If not, don't expect a board change to improve FCLK.
> 
> Also, the middle 2 M.2 slots are very gimmicky due to the chipset/CPU switch they implemented. It's a great bench board, but if you intend to daily it with a lot of storage/devices, might wanna save your money.


Yes I can do 2000Mhz but only on suicide vSOC 1.275v. This B550-A is incredibly stable and easy to use with memory OC and such but I kinda wanted a 3rd M.2 slot and a front internal USB-C header which this board doesn't have. Plus, 1T GDM Off is not possible on this board above 3800 but it should be way easier with the MSI. It isn't worth it I see that now.


----------



## Blameless

Frosted racquet said:


> Even starting mpc-hc and *pausing* the video caps the multiplier to 44.5, ***. That's absolutely not normal.
> Can you guy check on your systems?


At least five cores need to be in C6 for 45.5x.

With most renderers, MPC-HC prevents any core from being in C6, even while paused. This is normal.


----------



## Frosted racquet

Yep, you're right. Strange that with 5600x I didn't seem to have that issue, at least if I remember correctly


----------



## tabascosauz

Imprezzion said:


> Yes I can do 2000Mhz but only on suicide vSOC 1.275v. This B550-A is incredibly stable and easy to use with memory OC and such but I kinda wanted a 3rd M.2 slot and a front internal USB-C header which this board doesn't have. Plus, 1T GDM Off is not possible on this board above 3800 but it should be way easier with the MSI. It isn't worth it I see that now.


Golden rule about anything Ryzen - if it ain't broke, don't fix it 

I have a very weird relationship with my Unify-X. It actively discourages me from using it as a daily. First the CPU header began refusing to reliably spin any fan I could put on it. Then the header killed one of my A14 iPPCs. My first SN750 would constantly drop out in the second or third M.2 slot, then completely died. Then the board started randomly booting to BIOS every few reboots. Some of my USB devices are also really picky with some of the rear slots.

Among the 8 other AM4 boards I've dailyed none are like this. Despite it all I do have a soft spot for the board and will probably be setting up an RMA soon, but I really can't recommend the Unify-X as a daily unless you are getting the deal of the century.

And in its intended role (high freq DDR4 benching with APU), it's not like anyone's breaking world records with a 5700G anymore, so you should honestly just pick a board that has more features/quality of life stuff


----------



## Imprezzion

tabascosauz said:


> Golden rule about anything Ryzen - if it ain't broke, don't fix it
> 
> I have a very weird relationship with my Unify-X. It actively discourages me from using it as a daily. First the CPU header began refusing to reliably spin any fan I could put on it. Then the header killed one of my A14 iPPCs. My first SN750 would constantly drop out in the second or third M.2 slot, then completely died. Then the board started randomly booting to BIOS every few reboots. Some of my USB devices are also really picky with some of the rear slots.
> 
> Among the 8 other AM4 boards I've dailyed none are like this. Despite it all I do have a soft spot for the board and will probably be setting up an RMA soon, but I really can't recommend the Unify-X as a daily unless you are getting the deal of the century.
> 
> And in its intended role (high freq DDR4 benching with APU), it's not like anyone's breaking world records with a 5700G anymore, so you should honestly just pick a board that has more features/quality of life stuff


Well, there is a used X570 Prime Pro for sale which has most of it except it has the stupid chipset fan and only 1 M.2 heatsink. Then there's the NZXT N7 B550 with it's fake plastic M.2 "covers" which aren't heatsinks at all and it's absolutely dismal memory compatibility. I put it in a friend's rig... I guess I'll shop around a bit but I doubt there's a X570S/B550 board that has 3 M.2 slots with at least 2 heatsinks, has BIOS level CO control, has a USB-C header and is cheap lol. A Dark Hero or similar would do. If it wasn't like 400 bucks...


----------



## chrisz5z

Imprezzion said:


> I guess I'll shop around a bit but I doubt there's a X570S/B550 board that has 3 M.2 slots with at least 2 heatsinks, has BIOS level CO control, has a USB-C header and is cheap lol.


Mine has all of those except the BIOs level CO control. Last BIOs was in May, so it's about due for an update. I got it for $199 about a month ago, it's going for $229 now on Amazon and Newegg

X570S Aero G's look is rather polarizing though, you either love it or hate it. It's packed with ports/board level features, handles my 4x8GB RAM OC easily. Only things I dislike is the BIOs layout is odd (I'm used to ASUS & MSI boards), and I can barely see the debug LEDs due to my GPU being so large (an error code LED readout would have been nice).


----------



## AXi0M

Imprezzion said:


> Well, there is a used X570 Prime Pro for sale which has most of it except it has the stupid chipset fan and only 1 M.2 heatsink. Then there's the NZXT N7 B550 with it's fake plastic M.2 "covers" which aren't heatsinks at all and it's absolutely dismal memory compatibility. I put it in a friend's rig... I guess I'll shop around a bit but I doubt there's a X570S/B550 board that has 3 M.2 slots with at least 2 heatsinks, has BIOS level CO control, has a USB-C header and is cheap lol. A Dark Hero or similar would do. If it wasn't like 400 bucks...


Been using the PRIME-PRO since 2019 and chipset fan is still going good with no noise. Also have 2 980 PRO NVME drives and temps are fine, even on the one above the GPU with no cover.


----------



## Imprezzion

chrisz5z said:


> Mine has all of those except the BIOs level CO control. Last BIOs was in May, so it's about due for an update. I got it for $199 about a month ago, it's going for $229 now on Amazon and Newegg
> 
> X570S Aero G's look is rather polarizing though, you either love it or hate it. It's packed with ports/board level features, handles my 4x8GB RAM OC easily. Only things I dislike is the BIOs layout is odd (I'm used to ASUS & MSI boards), and I can barely see the debug LEDs due to my GPU being so large (an error code LED readout would have been nice).


I have a white build so it would match nicely. I would've preferred a Vision-D but that doesn't exist in my region. I can use PBO2 Tuner obviously but I prefer BIOS level since I don't need more startup software but PBO2 Tuner is pretty clean and doesn't run extra processes so it should be fine.

I might just get one if I can find it cheap..

Locally the cheapest shop has it for €312.95... yeah no. Amazon $229 is nice but $72 shipping to Netherlands....


----------



## Chili195

Just been having a read of this thread to try and figure out how to go about tuning this chip. I'm coming from a 5900X (side-graded as the x3D helps with some of the games I play).

I've played around with CO, which improves scores up to a point but there is no discernable difference in testing between -20 and -30 on all cores (not stability tested yet).

I can get around 5880 (R20), 15200 (R23) and 604/6460 (CPU-Z). 

Lowering PBO limits to the suggested 115/80/115 values lowers the scores slightly. Disabling CPPC Preferred lowers the scores as well. Using the MannixBoostTester app shows around 4.540 effective clock on each core. 

I'm guessing without going down the rabbithole of upping the BCLK that's about as good as I'm going to get?


----------



## Owterspace

Chili195 said:


> Just been having a read of this thread to try and figure out how to go about tuning this chip. I'm coming from a 5900X (side-graded as the x3D helps with some of the games I play).
> 
> I've played around with CO, which improves scores up to a point but there is no discernable difference in testing between -20 and -30 on all cores (not stability tested yet).
> 
> I can get around 5880 (R20), 15200 (R23) and 604/6460 (CPU-Z).
> 
> Lowering PBO limits to the suggested 115/80/115 values lowers the scores slightly. Disabling CPPC Preferred lowers the scores as well. Using the MannixBoostTester app shows around 4.540 effective clock on each core.
> 
> I'm guessing without going down the rabbithole of upping the BCLK that's about as good as I'm going to get?


Honestly, there is not much you can do with the chip other than use it.


----------



## bottjeremy

Chili195 said:


> Just been having a read of this thread to try and figure out how to go about tuning this chip. I'm coming from a 5900X (side-graded as the x3D helps with some of the games I play).
> 
> I've played around with CO, which improves scores up to a point but there is no discernable difference in testing between -20 and -30 on all cores (not stability tested yet).
> 
> I can get around 5880 (R20), 15200 (R23) and 604/6460 (CPU-Z).
> 
> Lowering PBO limits to the suggested 115/80/115 values lowers the scores slightly. Disabling CPPC Preferred lowers the scores as well. Using the MannixBoostTester app shows around 4.540 effective clock on each core.
> 
> I'm guessing without going down the rabbithole of upping the BCLK that's about as good as I'm going to get?


Dial in some CO and then focus on memory optimization. I saw a 5% performance jump in COD MW2 from my 3733mhz basic tune to 3733mhz fine tuning. I was able to use DRAM calculator numbers and have had ZERO lockups ever. Honestly, this is the most stable CPU and memory config in a PC that I've owned in a long time.


----------



## nx1987

bottjeremy said:


> Dial in some CO and then focus on memory optimization. I saw a 5% performance jump in COD MW2 from my 3733mhz basic tune to 3733mhz fine tuning. I was able to use DRAM calculator numbers and have had ZERO lockups ever. Honestly, this is the most stable CPU and memory config in a PC that I've owned in a long time.


wich config do you mean?


----------



## bottjeremy

nx1987 said:


> wich config do you mean?


Sorry but can you elaborate? Are you asking about the DRAM calculator settings profile? I use Kombo Strike 3 in MSI BIOS.


----------



## striker3

Bought 5800x3d today pairing it with b450 pro carbon and noctua u12s . the temp while using fire fox goes to 60 and when gaming 84 c and ccd# goes to 90.5 so is that a defected CPU or there is something with my bios settings ?


----------



## nx1987

bottjeremy said:


> Sorry but can you elaborate? Are you asking about the DRAM calculator settings profile? I use Kombo Strike 3 in MSI BIOS.


yes DRAM Calculator Settings profile. Kombo Strike 3 is that -30 undervolt option? im Asus user sorry


----------



## Frosted racquet

striker3 said:


> Bought 5800x3d today pairing it with b450 pro carbon and noctua u12s . the temp while using fire fox goes to 60 and when gaming 84 c and ccd# goes to 90.5 so is that a defected CPU or there is something with my bios settings ?


That's fairly normal if you're not using Curve Optimizer to undervolt. Some samples do get hotter by default than others, it might have something to do with that. Which BIOS/AGESA version are you on?


----------



## striker3

Frosted racquet said:


> That's fairly normal if you're not using Curve Optimizer to undervolt. Some samples do get hotter by default than others, it might have something to do with that. Which BIOS/AGESA version are you on?


Thx very much for the reply . how much difference between samples ? mine came with bent package . not the outside but the inside but the CPU is ok . BIOS 7B85v1G / 1.2.0.7 . any help will be appreciated . specially I had 3800x and upgraded to 5800x3d and some problems remains i think it is due to 6900xt but my pc is laggy and have fps drops in games . but 1st want to solve the 5800x3d high temp and by the way ccd#0 reached 92  in games I think that was a spike


----------



## Frosted racquet

striker3 said:


> Thx very much for the reply . how much difference between samples ? mine came with bent package . not the outside but the inside but the CPU is ok . BIOS 7B85v1G / 1.2.0.7 . any help will be appreciated . specially I had 3800x and upgraded to 5800x3d and some problems remains i think it is due to 6900xt but my pc is laggy and have fps drops in games . but 1st want to solve the 5800x3d high temp and by the way ccd#0 reached 92  in games I think that was a spike


Have you used PBO2 Tuner to set CO values to -30 for example? AGESA 1207 runs hotter than 1206c for example for many people. I'd first try to set -30 CO and see if the temps improve. If not, try downgrading to AGESA 1206.
I don't think the CPU is damaged in shipping, if it was it most likely would work at all.


----------



## zyrien

striker3 said:


> Bought 5800x3d today pairing it with b450 pro carbon and noctua u12s . the temp while using fire fox goes to 60 and when gaming 84 c and ccd# goes to 90.5 so is that a defected CPU or there is something with my bios settings ?


Hey! I'm actually in the same position as you, and my temps are at 85-90 when I'm gaming. Using a Dark Rock 4 that worked well for a 3700x and 5600x.

Currently running latest bios 1.2.0.7 (along with -30 and 95W/60A/90A).

And the temps are a bit nice, at 75c when I'm gaming now, but I still think it's a bit much. I've had to deal with this a lot and I'm tired of it.
Anyone know what else can be done to bring the temps down?


----------



## Alastair

Greetings 5800X3D owners. I am only on page 38 of this thread. So slowly reading my way through it. 

So unfortunately my 3800X died. Unfortunately I can't RMA it as I lapped it. But I am looking at replacing it with either a 5800X or an X3D. What's funny is my 3800X was not exactly thrashed. I run a few suicide benches at 4.55GHz for some HWBOT competitions this year but other than that it lived its life on PBO at -0.0375V. I was playing Doom. Went shut down my machine as normal and went to bed. Next day I came to play some games. Pressed the power button and no power no nothing. Put a friends 5600X in and it fired right up. His machine got my 3800X and it is clearly dead. 

I currently have an Aorus X570 Pro WiFi. (I do not know if this board has an external clockgen.) and some garbage tier 3600MHz C-Die memory. (Which I plan to swap out for some B-Die most likely the same time I replace my CPU)

Question is whats the overclocking situation for the 5800X3D. Still locked out? Can we PBO or whatever people do on the 5000 chips? I had PBO on my 3800X running very nicely with the EDC=1 bug getting my clocks up to 4.65 1T boost, 4.5-4.6 game clocks and a full core boost of 4.4-4.45. Does PBO or anything work on X3d? Any manual OC? I have seen so far in the first 38 pages of the thread lots of bck OCing, unfortunately that route wont work for me as my X570 has loads of SATA drives plugged in and I start dropping SATA drives on my board pretty quickly. (I already tried bclk OCing on my 3800X to try break the 4.7 1T threshold)

And if not. How does a decent CO'ed / PBO'ed 5800X fair against an X3D that is not OC'ed? Im juggling between the standard X and the X3D. I mainly game thats my main concern but I love OC'ing and tweaking and I am hoping the X3D has a bit of oc ability to it.


----------



## bottjeremy

nx1987 said:


> yes DRAM Calculator Settings profile. Kombo Strike 3 is that -30 undervolt option? im Asus user sorry











For my CPU, Kombo Strike 3 is -30 for CO. 

For Mem, started with the DRAM Calc (Fast) for my B-Die, then tightened a little more. Using some old Flare-X 3200 C14 DIMMS. Still working great after all of these years.


----------



## Chili195

Owterspace said:


> Honestly, there is not much you can do with the chip other than use it.


That sounds good to me! Thanks.



bottjeremy said:


> Dial in some CO and then focus on memory optimization. I saw a 5% performance jump in COD MW2 from my 3733mhz basic tune to 3733mhz fine tuning. I was able to use DRAM calculator numbers and have had ZERO lockups ever. Honestly, this is the most stable CPU and memory config in a PC that I've owned in a long time.


Yeah, I carried over my memory settings from my 5900X and initial testing suggests this chip is happy with it. I managed to lower the SOC voltage as well from 1.1v to 1.075v and kept everything else the same although need to do some more stability testing to be doubly sure.


----------



## Owterspace

The IMC on my X3D is better than the one on my 5900X, but only slightly.. one speed grade.


----------



## bottjeremy

Chili195 said:


> That sounds good to me! Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I carried over my memory settings from my 5900X and initial testing suggests this chip is happy with it. I managed to lower the SOC voltage as well from 1.1v to 1.075v and kept everything else the same although need to do some more stability testing to be doubly sure.
> 
> View attachment 2590746


I could not hit 3800mhz like I could on my 5900X. I'll post, but I get errors after a while.


----------



## chrisz5z

zyrien said:


> Hey! I'm actually in the same position as you, and my temps are at 85-90 when I'm gaming. Using a Dark Rock 4 that worked well for a 3700x and 5600x.
> 
> Currently running latest bios 1.2.0.7 (along with -30 and 95W/60A/90A).
> 
> And the temps are a bit nice, at 75c when I'm gaming now, but I still think it's a bit much. I've had to deal with this a lot and I'm tired of it.
> Anyone know what else can be done to bring the temps down?


Switch to a BIOs with AGESA 1.2.0.6, lower SoC/IOD/CCD voltage if possible, switch to watercooling. 

I had the same cooler, switched to Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420...temps don't go above 55°C while gaming 66-67°C during all core benchmark. It's a bit overkill, a 360 rad would probably get you maybe 3-5° warmer.


----------



## bottjeremy

zyrien said:


> Hey! I'm actually in the same position as you, and my temps are at 85-90 when I'm gaming. Using a Dark Rock 4 that worked well for a 3700x and 5600x.
> 
> Currently running latest bios 1.2.0.7 (along with -30 and 95W/60A/90A).
> 
> And the temps are a bit nice, at 75c when I'm gaming now, but I still think it's a bit much. I've had to deal with this a lot and I'm tired of it.
> Anyone know what else can be done to bring the temps down?












Have you considered an AIO? Running an inexpensive unit (on both my systems without issue). Cooler Master ML280. I came from a DRP4 and dropped 8-10c. 70c or so is what I'm maxing out now. In games it is in the 50's or 60's.


----------



## 681933

Personally I tune fan curves and let the CPU reach whatever temperature it wants. It performs the same either way.


----------



## nx1987

bottjeremy said:


> View attachment 2590745
> 
> For my CPU, Kombo Strike 3 is -30 for CO.
> 
> For Mem, started with the DRAM Calc (Fast) for my B-Die, then tightened a little more. Using some old Flare-X 3200 C14 DIMMS. Still working great after all of these years.


Thanks i will try, i have G skills ddr4 royal elite cl 14 14 14 34 is that b-dei?


----------



## bottjeremy

nx1987 said:


> Thanks i will try, i have from G skills ddr4 royal elite cl 14 14 14 34 is that b-dei?


I bet it is. You can search for your part number here to verify.





B-Die Finder


Find Samsung B-Die DDR 4 memory kits on Amazon, Newegg and many more.




benzhaomin.github.io


----------



## Lobstar

Running CBr23 I don't see any change in effective clock from -20 to -30. Which should I daily for the longevity of the processor? Water temp is a constant 24C.
-30: (14500 CBr23) 64.8C 1.144 max VID








-25: (14500 CBr23) 69.3C 1.175 max VID









-20: (14500 CBr23) 74.5C, 1.206 max VID


----------



## Frosted racquet

@Lobstar There's no difference in terms of longevity, only stability. You'll have to verify if those offsets are stable. BTW, 14700 is a low score for >-20 CO. You should score around 15100+ with that setup. Make sure no background processes are taking away performance

Here's my scores with an air cooler, ~80°C max temps, effective clocks are from 4425 to 4450. Mostly -30, some cores are -26ish


----------



## Owterspace

That's crazy, how are you guys getting 80c in R23?

This is mine with an aircooler that has no fans on it.


----------



## Frosted racquet

You got lucky 

Or maybe the latest Asus BIOS (AGESA 1208?) has some magic in it


----------



## Owterspace

Frosted racquet said:


> You got lucky
> 
> Or maybe the latest Asus BIOS (AGESA 1208?) has some magic in it


Nah, I can run my 5900X with a mild tune with no fans on it. Very mild. Full stock is no sweat.


----------



## Frosted racquet

Then you're probably running the PC in the coldness of owterspace


----------



## Owterspace

Frosted racquet said:


> Then you're probably running the PC in the coldness of owterspace


Lol

Its 19c in my space 

I was just curious that's all. Even with fans this thing runs cool. That's why I tried running without.. ran fine. You should get a Thermalright cooler


----------



## Frosted racquet

Was thinking of getting the Peerless Assassin but the Fuma 2 was relatively easier to get here.

Might try fanless just for lulz, although I don't think it'll go well...


----------



## chrisz5z

Frosted racquet said:


> Was thinking of getting the Peerless Assassin but the Fuma 2 was relatively easier to get here.
> 
> Might try fanless just for lulz, although I don't think it'll go well...


I actually ran my old 3700X fanless for a while but i had this big ass heatsink on it 😂

Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT


----------



## jonan14

If you have temperature problems, offset mounting is the solution, I saw that they mentioned it a lot in this forum, today I decided to lower my 240 mm artic liquid II and place it in this way... simply amazing, it no longer exceeds 80C in CB R23 with everything in stock, apply the MX6 paste in the following way, 4 points in the corners and 1 in the center.

PS: I have a NZXT H5 Elite case, lousy for airflow.


----------



## Owterspace

chrisz5z said:


> I actually ran my old 3700X fanless for a while but i had this big ass heatsink on it 😂
> 
> Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT


I have LGMRT, I was able to run my 3600XT at 4400 static with no fans, it would do 4500 static, but temps were in the 90s during Linpack. The cooler struggles with AMD 7nm as it is tuned for older CPUs.


----------



## AXi0M

Owterspace said:


> That's crazy, how are you guys getting 80c in R23?
> 
> This is mine with an aircooler that has no fans on it.
> 
> View attachment 2590779
> 
> View attachment 2590779


Nice to see windows 11 only looses me 3 points lol very similar temps and scores


----------



## Andy112

Hi guys wondering if anyone has some spare time if they could please recommend some additional tweaks I could possibly make to further tune my RAM. Fairly new to this and have just follwed the overclocking guide found here. My current timings are:











All four sticks of RAM are these.

Thank you.


----------



## Shenhua

deleted.


----------



## neobpm

Andy112 said:


> Hi guys wondering if anyone has some spare time if they could please recommend some additional tweaks I could possibly make to further tune my RAM. Fairly new to this and have just follwed the overclocking guide found here. My current timings are:
> 
> View attachment 2590814
> 
> 
> 
> All four sticks of RAM are these.
> 
> Thank you.


I asked similiar question with similar RAM and no one responsed me... I have 32Gb Crucial Ballistix Max 4000cl18 @ 3600cl15, Aida64 shows me arround 65-66ns of response (high for a RAM like this) but I can't reduce it, if I tweak the timmings I get the same result and if I lower more my PC crashes fast...

OP:









5800X3D Owners


Is ram speed that important with 5800X3D ? I have a crappy Corsair 2x16GB kit 3600 XMP and I can't even make it work at 3800 ... I was dreaming to get 4000 so FCLK would be 2000MHz ... I dont even know what vales to try :( also I have no clue what chips are on the memory. But I think Micron...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Taraquin

Andy112 said:


> Hi guys wondering if anyone has some spare time if they could please recommend some additional tweaks I could possibly make to further tune my RAM. Fairly new to this and have just follwed the overclocking guide found here. My current timings are:
> 
> View attachment 2590814
> 
> 
> 
> All four sticks of RAM are these.
> 
> Thank you.


Try RC 53, try RFC 560 or increase RFC by 10 until stable. Lower than 560 may also work. The biggest room for improvement is your RDWR/WRRD. Try RDWR 9, WRRD 3. If nit working raise RDWR by 1.


----------



## Imprezzion

The most efficient OC I managed to get so far: Very low vSOC, VDDG, VDDP, vDIMM is 1.450v.
2T GDM Off, i'm still working on getting 1T to work, it can, but needs 1.48v vDIMM, 56 AddrCmdSetup and 30 ClkDrvStr and it doesn't bench any better, RWC and latency is the same with 1T GDM Off. This 5800X3D has a great IMC and can do even 3933/1967 1:1 on just 1.14v vSOC, 0.98 CCD 1.02 IOD 0.88 VDDP. 2000 works but it needs too much vSOC for daily.


----------



## Blameless

Alastair said:


> Question is whats the overclocking situation for the 5800X3D. Still locked out? Can we PBO or whatever people do on the 5000 chips? I had PBO on my 3800X running very nicely with the EDC=1 bug getting my clocks up to 4.65 1T boost, 4.5-4.6 game clocks and a full core boost of 4.4-4.45. Does PBO or anything work on X3d? Any manual OC?


In general, you can tune CO, use negative vcore offsets, and reduce PPT/TDC/EDC and temp limits. You cannot increase any of those (aside from the LCLK DPM bug, which removes PPT tracking and increases temp limit), cannot manipulate scalar, cannot override boost clock, and cannot manually set multipliers.



Alastair said:


> And if not. How does a decent CO'ed / PBO'ed 5800X fair against an X3D that is not OC'ed? Im juggling between the standard X and the X3D. I mainly game thats my main concern but I love OC'ing and tweaking and I am hoping the X3D has a bit of oc ability to it.


By and large, in most non-GPU limited gaming scenarios, tuned 5800X3D will beat any standard Vermeer part, often by a wide margin, despite the clock speed deficit.



Owterspace said:


> That's crazy, how are you guys getting 80c in R23?


Easy, ~80C is the standard throttle temp.

Almost everyone scoring less than ~15300 is reaching 80C or higher.



Owterspace said:


> Its 19c in my space


19C is on the cool side and there is a fair sample to sample variance between these parts as well.


----------



## striker3

zyrien said:


> Hey! I'm actually in the same position as you, and my temps are at 85-90 when I'm gaming. Using a Dark Rock 4 that worked well for a 3700x and 5600x.
> 
> Currently running latest bios 1.2.0.7 (along with -30 and 95W/60A/90A).
> 
> And the temps are a bit nice, at 75c when I'm gaming now, but I still think it's a bit much. I've had to deal with this a lot and I'm tired of it.
> Anyone know what else can be done to bring the temps down?


Thank you man . I did try your settings and now with CINEBENCH temp is 68 c and 71 c for ccd#0 . but cores don't go past 4150 with CINEBENCH but in games some boost to 4450 and 4550 so is that normal results ?. and wanted to ask if higher frequencies matter with this CPU and what about overclocking the ram and tighten times ? by the way I use this pc almost for just games .


----------



## 681933

striker3 said:


> Thank you man . I did try your settings and now with CINEBENCH temp is 68 c and 71 c for ccd#0 . but cores don't go past 4150 with CINEBENCH but in games some boost to 4450 and 4550 so is that normal results ?. and wanted to ask if higher frequencies matter with this CPU and what about overclocking the ram and tighten times ? by the way I use this pc almost for just games .


Just for games? Cinebench score irrelevant then. I'd argue it's irrelevant in any case. Just use the thing. Don't be laser focused on temperatures and scores.

You can get a bit more performance by tuning RAM timings, not by increasing RAM frequency.


----------



## chrisz5z

Crylune said:


> Don't be laser focused on temperatures and scores.


But this is overclock.net...mUsT gEt sCoRe HiGHEr! 🤪


----------



## Alastair

Blameless said:


> In general, you can tune CO, use negative vcore offsets, and reduce PPT/TDC/EDC and temp limits. You cannot increase any of those (aside from the LCLK DPM bug, which removes PPT tracking and increases temp limit), cannot manipulate scalar, cannot override boost clock, and cannot manually set multipliers.
> 
> 
> 
> By and large, in most non-GPU limited gaming scenarios, tuned 5800X3D will beat any standard Vermeer part, often by a wide margin, despite the clock speed deficit.
> 
> 
> 
> Easy, ~80C is the standard throttle temp.
> 
> Almost everyone scoring less than ~15300 is reaching 80C or higher.
> 
> 
> 
> 19C is on the cool side and there is a fair sample to sample variance between these parts as well.


So in order to get an OC on X3D you only have BCLK and that's it? Am I right? If that's the case I am not sure if I want the X3D. The granularity of BCLK Ocing isn't great on the X570 Pro WiFi as it only changes in 1mhz incriments. So I can only change BCLK on whole numbers. Not exactly ideal for fine tuning. And with all the Sata drives I have rigged up to my board I'll probably drop drives quite quickly. I started dropping at 101 when attempting to get to 4.7GHz 1T on my 3800X.


----------



## Owterspace

Alastair said:


> So in order to get an OC on X3D you only have BCLK and that's it? Am I right? If that's the case I am not sure if I want the X3D.


For me when I try to oc via bclk the CPU locks itself to 3400. It really is pretty sucky for tuning. You set your fclk/mclk, all your memory stuff, find your CO and that's it. It really is pretty boring from a tuning standpoint. But it is nice to use, and it is smooth. In my case its super easy to cool, so I don't have to listen to fans ramp up and down like with my 5900X


----------



## 681933

chrisz5z said:


> But this is overclock.net...mUsT gEt sCoRe HiGHEr! 🤪


Ahaha sure but generally, I'd advise not worrying about it too much. I learned that the hard way. Spent ages thinking my old 3900X was a hot, slow running mess when in reality it ran as it should...


----------



## Nucky

Any tips for breaking 15k in cbr23. Right now I'm running [email protected]/1885, 101 bclk,-30 co, figuring out negative offsets. -0.04 seems to give me the highest scores but still close to 14.9k . Currently being cooled by an optimus foundation and 4x360rads by itself until I get a block for my 4090 TUF

Edit: zen timings / aida results


----------



## Arthie

Guys, If I'm using Kombo Strike, I can just delete PBO2 Tuner right? Since them are the same?


----------



## aditrex

have anyone try to blck on msi board im on x570 unify but what ever i try 101blck i dont get pc to boot kombo strikes sems to work well on lvl 3 which is undervolt? but i would like to try some blck overclocking before i buy next zen 3d


----------



## Frosted racquet

@Nucky Unfortunately you've done everything you can. How hot does the CPU get? CB23 isn't affected by RAM config, only by CPU.

@Arthie Kombo Strike has -10, -20, -30 presets (profiles 1, 2, 3) for CO, PBO2 Tuner has more granular control if you need CO -25 for example. If you're stable at -30 Kombo Strike 3 then you don't need PBO2Tuner. But don't use them in conjunction.

@aditrex There's nothing that can be done if BCLK 101 doesn't boot.


----------



## Nucky

With CO-30 and -0.04375 offset r23 gets to 78c. I managed to get 15000 even. I'm fairly sure I'm limited to 101 bclk with my current nvmes and my c8H doesnt have an external clock gen. My c7H sitting on a table downstairs does. I also havent touched PBO limits


----------



## Blameless

Alastair said:


> So in order to get an OC on X3D you only have BCLK and that's it? Am I right? If that's the case I am not sure if I want the X3D. The granularity of BCLK Ocing isn't great on the X570 Pro WiFi as it only changes in 1mhz incriments. So I can only change BCLK on whole numbers. Not exactly ideal for fine tuning. And with all the Sata drives I have rigged up to my board I'll probably drop drives quite quickly. I started dropping at 101 when attempting to get to 4.7GHz 1T on my 3800X.


Depends on what you mean by overclock.

Actual, effective, clock speeds, especially in demanding loads, improve with CO adjustment, cooling, and other tweaks. Actual performance improves with all of that and with memory tuning.

You will be capped to a maximum core clock of 4450MHz (or 4550MHz in loads light enough to allow five or more cores to stay in C6), unless you increase BCLK.

You'll have to decide what you want the CPU for. If it's for gaming performance, it cannot be beat on this platform. If it's for tuning potential, then almost everything else will respond better, proportionally speaking.


----------



## chrisz5z

Crylune said:


> Ahaha sure but generally, I'd advise not worrying about it too much. I learned that the hard way. Spent ages thinking my old 3900X was a hot, slow running mess when in reality it ran as it should...


I agree. If someone doesn't find "spending a lot of time tweaking for little to no gain" fun, then it's definitely not worth it.


----------



## Alastair

chrisz5z said:


> I agree. If someone doesn't find "spending a lot of time tweaking for little to no gain" fun, then it's definitely not worth it.


Can you PBO bug the X3D like we could with the 3000 series. I would set 
PPT 0
TDP 0 
EDC 1

And on my 3800X that gave me 4.65 1T boost and 4.4 - 4.45 all core.


----------



## luismirao

Hi guys!
How do I save limits values on PBO for system boot? Tutorial only mention curve values.
Thanks


----------



## tabascosauz

Alastair said:


> Can you PBO bug the X3D like we could with the 3000 series. I would set
> PPT 0
> TDP 0
> EDC 1
> And on my 3800X that gave me 4.65 1T boost and 4.4 - 4.45 all core.


Even assuming the EDC trick still works, the 5800X3D has a hard Fmax limiter. It's already easy for most people to max out 4450/4550 through normal means, the only way past it is BCLK. Zen 2 is fundamentally different, doesn't have CO, and clocks like **** compared to Zen 3


----------



## AXi0M

If the X3D taught us anything, it's that clock speeds aren't nearly as important for gaming as we once thought.

Look at any gaming benchmark and the 5800X3D comes very close, matches or even beats other CPU's running 1+Ghz faster.


----------



## Imprezzion

AXi0M said:


> If the X3D taught us anything, it's that clock speeds aren't nearly as important for gaming as we once thought.
> 
> Look at any gaming benchmark and the 5800X3D comes very close, matches or even beats other CPU's running 1+Ghz faster.


Zen 3 already has very strong IPC so a bit lower frequency will still perform well and in games that can't utilize the 3D cache clocks do still matter. 

I mean, in a situation where all CPU's benched have 3D cache clocks would matter just as much again.


----------



## Owterspace

AXi0M said:


> Nice to see windows 11 only looses me 3 points lol very similar temps and scores
> 
> View attachment 2590810


I just switched over to 11 and put a fan on it


----------



## Blameless

Crapped out after a few minutes of y-cruncher HNT, but this is what 102.5MHz BCLK does to my better sample:









Pretty much a linear increase to performance, unless I hit temp limits, which I do at COs that are actually stable (not the above).


----------



## tabascosauz

luismirao said:


> Hi guys!
> How do I save limits values on PBO for system boot? Tutorial only mention curve values.
> Thanks


Not possible on a BIOS level on 5800X3D unless you have a BIOS that unhides PBO controls (newest Asus BIOSes), or a modded BIOS. 

Tutorial for autorun PBO2 Tuner at login, should accomplish the same thing if you set it up correctly:









How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner/README.md at main · PrimeO7/How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner


Get the Most out of your 5800X3D using PBO Curve Optimizer! - How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner/README.md at main · PrimeO7/How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2...




github.com


----------



## thornygravy

Even though I'm rocking the curve optimizer enabled bios from asus, ryzen master still has the auto tuning feature of curve optimizer disabled, pretty lame.


----------



## th3illusiveman

AXi0M said:


> If the X3D taught us anything, it's that clock speeds aren't nearly as important for gaming as we once thought.
> 
> Look at any gaming benchmark and the 5800X3D comes very close, matches or even beats other CPU's running 1+Ghz faster.


That's thanks to the IPC on the 5800X3D being significantly better than the IPC of the 5800X and other Zen3 parts. The CPU is able to do more per cycle since the cache is constantly feeding it the data it needs vs wasting clocks. 

I think a good analogy is think of the CPU as a delivery truck, one truck has alot of boxes packed neatly for delivery but moves slow (X3D), the other truck has way less boxes thrown in but moves abit faster (Standard Zen3). Even though the 2nd truck is faster, it can't deliver as many boxes per run and the speed can't make up for the constant up and down trips it has to make to try to keep up. The slower truck makes less trips but always has more boxes and essentially does a better job over time. 

Now some games dont need alot of cache, in these situations, its like the truck only has to deliver one box to one person, so obviously the faster truck will win.


----------



## luismirao

Deleted


----------



## luismirao

tabascosauz said:


> Tutorial for autorun PBO2 Tuner at login, should accomplish the same thing if you set it up correctly:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner/README.md at main · PrimeO7/How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner
> 
> 
> Get the Most out of your 5800X3D using PBO Curve Optimizer! - How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner/README.md at main · PrimeO7/How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> github.com


Thanks.
I use PBO at startup but i dont know how to add limits values to shortcut.


----------



## mauro.ficorella94

xlollomanx said:


> Guys who have the 5800x3d on a gigabyte motherboard (I have b550 aorus elite ax v2) with 5800x3d can u tell the status of your tpm? I've just installed it and in the windows security it show in TPM status: Attestation "not supported" but "ready" on memory as in the screenshot. I've tried everything from bios and windows to reset it. Even downgrading from bios 1.2.0.7 to 1.2.0.3B.
> Thank u
> 
> 
> Spoiler: image
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2585830


Hi, sorry if i answer now to this. I'm also having this "problem" i windows security with the 5800x3d and the crosshair viii hero wifi showing not supported in attestation but ready on memory. So at this point i think that this is the normal behavior for this processor


----------



## alexcheveau

Owterspace said:


> That's crazy, how are you guys getting 80c in R23?
> 
> This is mine with an aircooler that has no fans on it.
> 
> View attachment 2590779
> 
> View attachment 2590779



You are on Canada. Niagara just froze my man lol
Some ppl like me are in summer time, so it's 30c amb here


----------



## alexcheveau

xlollomanx said:


> Guys who have the 5800x3d on a gigabyte motherboard (I have b550 aorus elite ax v2) with 5800x3d can u tell the status of your tpm? I've just installed it and in the windows security it show in TPM status: Attestation "not supported" but "ready" on memory as in the screenshot. I've tried everything from bios and windows to reset it. Even downgrading from bios 1.2.0.7 to 1.2.0.3B.
> Thank u
> 
> 
> Spoiler: image
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2585830


Maybe update AMD drivers? Mine show new version



Spoiler: Img


----------



## Owterspace

alexcheveau said:


> You are on Canada. Niagara just froze my man lol
> Some ppl like me are in summer time, so it's 30c amb here


I almost miss those 30c ambient. They just left a couple of months ago. Today is nice at -8 the last I looked, but it was recently -40s with the wind. It sucked. Winter sucks. And then when summer comes, we try to get the house back down to 19 lol.


----------



## Lobstar

When you run CBr23 what is your effective clock? Mine is never more than 4171. Is this normal? This doesn't change from -20 to -30.


----------



## mauro.ficorella94

alexcheveau said:


> Maybe update AMD drivers? Mine show new version
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Img
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2591061


Nope, i've the same version as yours and i still have attestation "not supported". Do you also have a ryzen 5800x3d?


----------



## donk165

So is there a consensus on AGESA versions, 1206b or 1207? I know 1207 has higher voltage requirements, but it was meant to improve performance too right? I'm still on 1206b on my Gigabyte B550 Aorus Pro AC, but there is a 1207 bios available.


----------



## Geno_

I'm on 1208 now, can do CO within BIOS now which is great - got no complaints about it. I know most Asus boards have it available already but unsure about other brands. Been running the below for a couple weeks now without issue, 2k FCLK is stable but requries nearly 1.2v VSOC which just isnt worth it for me!


----------



## AXi0M

donk165 said:


> So is there a consensus on AGESA versions, 1206b or 1207? I know 1207 has higher voltage requirements, but it was meant to improve performance too right? I'm still on 1206b on my Gigabyte B550 Aorus Pro AC, but there is a 1207 bios available.


1.2.0.6b seems to run cooler for with less voltage on a -30 curve for alot people.

i mentioned this months ago on this forum but no one believed me at the time lol


----------



## chrisz5z

Lobstar said:


> When you run CBr23 what is your effective clock? Mine is never more than 4171. Is this normal? This doesn't change from -20 to -30.


Depends on your thermals, if they are fine then it's probably something your BIOs is doing. I'd try a different BIOs version.


----------



## Lobstar

chrisz5z said:


> Depends on your thermals, if they are fine then it's probably something your BIOs is doing. I'd try a different BIOs version.


I don't break 64*C under load. What should my effective clocks look like? Just upgraded from 4201 to 4303 (Asus C8DH).



Geno_ said:


> I'm on 1208 now, can do CO within BIOS now which is great - got no complaints about it. I know most Asus boards have it available already but unsure about other brands. Been running the below for a couple weeks now without issue, 2k FCLK is stable but requries nearly 1.2v VSOC which just isnt worth it for me!
> 
> View attachment 2591065


I'm running 1967 on all auto settings on the same bios. Seems fine so far.


----------



## Frosted racquet

Lobstar said:


> I don't break 64*C under load. What should my effective clocks look like? Just upgraded from 4201 to 4303 (Asus C8DH).


You're probably power limited, you should have higher clocks, near 4450 effective. Post a screenshot of entire hwinfo sensors after running CB23


----------



## alexcheveau

mauro.ficorella94 said:


> Nope, i've the same version as yours and i still have attestation "not supported". Do you also have a ryzen 5800x3d?


Yeah


----------



## Lobstar

Frosted racquet said:


> You're probably power limited, you should have higher clocks, near 4450 effective. Post a screenshot of entire hwinfo sensors after running CB23


Thank for the support. Here is my latest run.


----------



## chrisz5z

Lobstar said:


> View attachment 2591081
> 
> 
> 
> Thank for the support. Here is my latest run.


Yep those look good. Did you change anything?


----------



## Lobstar

chrisz5z said:


> Yep those look good. Did you change anything?


 No, notice the effective clocks are still below 4200 during the run.


----------



## AXi0M

Lobstar said:


> No, notice the effective clocks are still below 4200 during the run.


??? probably just a bug, effective clocks are 4450 per core

also why the flat 14's with everything else on auto?


----------



## Lobstar

AXi0M said:


> also why the flat 14's with everything else on auto?


It was the numbers I put in that boot at 1900/3800 with zero tweaking after the bios update.


----------



## chrisz5z

Lobstar said:


> No, notice the effective clocks are still below 4200 during the run.


Average effective yes, but if you didn't reset the log time during the benchmark the average will include the lower clocks you had before the bench started.

Your effective clocks per core are ~4.449GHz though, which is correct.


----------



## chrisz5z

Well Gigabyte just removed the latest BIOs for my board, had 1.2.0.7 AGESA (F4c). Seems a bit odd. While it was a beta, F4a (AGESA 1.2.0.6) is also beta but they kept it. Could it mean they are about to release an update? Idk if this is how Gigabyte handles releases or they just like trolling.


----------



## Frosted racquet

What's the general consensus on the most demanding test in YCruncher? So far I've only had HNT crash... Looking to cut down on runtime for interim tests before running a final test with all options enabled.


----------



## jonan14

¡Nueva BIOS pronto! 😙😙😙


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/gigabyte/comments/zxktk2



chrisz5z said:


> Bueno, Gigabyte acaba de eliminar las últimas BIO de mi placa, tenía 1.2.0.7 AGESA (F4c). Parece un poco extraño. Si bien era una beta, F4a (AGESA 1.2.0.6) también es beta pero la mantuvieron. ¿Podría significar que están a punto de lanzar una actualización? No sé si así es como Gigabyte maneja los lanzamientos o simplemente les gusta trolear.
> [/CITA]


----------



## chrisz5z

jonan14 said:


> ¡Nueva BIOS pronto! 😙😙😙
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/gigabyte/comments/zxktk2


Ah good find, thanks 👍


----------



## Olv

jonan14 said:


> ¡Nueva BIOS pronto! 😙😙😙
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/gigabyte/comments/zxktk2


Agesa 1.2.0.7


----------



## chrisz5z

Olv said:


> Agesa 1.2.0.7


Might be a typo....I've noticed Gigabyte has many errors across their websites. For my board: aorus.com shows 13 BIOs downloads (including the supposed new one, multiple copies of others) and doesn't even show 5800X3D on the CPU Support List, gigabyte.com has 4 BIOs listed and on the CPU Support List it shows the incorrect BIOs version needed for support.


----------



## mauro.ficorella94

alexcheveau said:


> Yeah


It sounds very strange, what mobo do you have? Because also the other guy has the same problem, what could be the reason in your opinion?


----------



## Imprezzion

I am kinda done with my motherboard.. too many small issues that all mount up to me just not liking it at all anymore. 

What would you guys suggest I get for my 5800X3D? Just looking for best value for money with at least 2 cooled M.2 slots, USB-C front panel header, prefer BIOS CO for the X3D, lowest latency and best RAM OC. I think the B550 Unify-X @ €212 is quite unbeatable here but still, I could get a Strix X570-E for the same amount or even a X570 Aorus Master..


----------



## Owterspace

If you are in the market for b550, the XE is a good board. Not sure on its price though, I bought mine on sale.


----------



## Imprezzion

Owterspace said:


> If you are in the market for b550, the XE is a good board. Not sure on its price though, I bought mine on sale.


Had that with my 5900X. Great board, absolutely loved it, regret selling it a LOT. It's currently like €289 here so, not an option as the Unify-X is only €209 and even the full on Crosshair VIII Hero (not dark) is only €10 more.


----------



## Alastair

So I just sent my claim to my insurance for my 3800X. Since 3800X isn't a thing anymore I'm pointing the X3D as my nearest equivalent like for like replacement. I will also be grabbing a SATA to Pcie adapter card so that I can put my drives off the sata controller to try improve my bclk ocing ability so that I can get some OC going


----------



## Imprezzion

I just played around with BCLK and I fixed the stuck at 34 multiplier issue. I have to use a manual multiplier in the BIOS. If I use Auto it gets stuck but with 45.50 multi it behaves normally both multicore 44.50 and 45.50 single core.

I have to use CO -30 and manual static voltage because Auto vCore is 1.476v and Offset vCore bugs out the boost again. It will only boost with manual vCore. 1.19v is my setpoint. 1.15 is fine but it also again doesn;t boost fully. It's almost like there's a sort of a vREL algorythm like nVidia cards have. Too low voltage won't let it fully boost. So yeah, CO -30 all core, manual vCore 1.19v, got this in CB R23: It also cannot see actual clockspeeds in HWINFO64. It still reads 100.0 BCLK and sees all clocks as 100.0. CPU-Z can read it properly and shows 4551 and 102.3 BCLK.










EDIT: aaand i bricked it going for 103.4. POST loop and using CMOS CLR lets me go into recovery mode only to press F1 and not show a BIOS on any monitor. DP or HDMI. As soon as I press F1 it just locks up black screen. 

Well, guess I have to USB Flashback the thing again... Where did my 1GB USB go...


----------



## zixsie

Guys, do you know how to improve 99% low fps or called 1% low fps, since what i can see during playing multiple games is that:
FPS is 120-144fps (using RTSS frame limiter) but:
99% low FPS is 65-70 FPS
This is while playing multiple games, either online FPS or Cyberpunk. I definitely can not say this is due to bad optimized/coded game engines since it affects many different games.
My RAM is 2x16GB Dual rank 3200mhz CL16 with tweaked subtimings. 
My CPU performance is as expected using -20 CO and CB23 benchmark is around 15100 points.

Do you think it is worth it to upgrade to a 3600/3800mhz RAM with better timings or if that will help at all?


----------



## StevieRay2

Yes tuned ram will increase your lows.


----------



## AXi0M

zixsie said:


> I definitely can not say this is due to bad optimized/coded game engines


*Most* games are poorly optimized


----------



## OCmember

@zixsie What GPU are you using?


----------



## bottjeremy

zixsie said:


> Guys, do you know how to improve 99% low fps or called 1% low fps, since what i can see during playing multiple games is that:
> FPS is 120-144fps (using RTSS frame limiter) but:
> 99% low FPS is 65-70 FPS
> This is while playing multiple games, either online FPS or Cyberpunk. I definitely can not say this is due to bad optimized/coded game engines since it affects many different games.
> My RAM is 2x16GB Dual rank 3200mhz CL16 with tweaked subtimings.
> My CPU performance is as expected using -20 CO and CB23 benchmark is around 15100 points.
> 
> Do you think it is worth it to upgrade to a 3600/3800mhz RAM with better timings or if that will help at all?
> 
> View attachment 2591202


Have you thought about verifying what it is with Thaiphoon burner and/or trying to OC it to 3733mhz or 3800mhz using DRAM calc settings? These are not showing up on B-Die finder after doing a quick search.


----------



## zixsie

OCmember said:


> @zixsie What GPU are you using?


I am running a 3080 10GB which is quite stable and does not bottleneck me in the most CPU heavy games i do play.



bottjeremy said:


> Have you thought about verifying what it is with Thaiphoon burner and/or trying to OC it to 3733mhz or 3800mhz using DRAM calc settings? These are not showing up on B-Die finder after doing a quick search.


I tried and it is reported as B-Die, but i do not believe that. Can not overclock it more than 3400mhz and be stable, no matter what voltages i run and memory timings. It does post up to 3600mhz, but is fully unstable.


----------



## xlollomanx

alexcheveau said:


> Yeah





mauro.ficorella94 said:


> It sounds very strange, what mobo do you have? Because also the other guy has the same problem, what could be the reason in your opinion?


Sorry replying this late but yeah I have that problem but I can't find the clue. I have a B550 Aorus Elite AX V2. I have tried countless time to reset the tpm in windows and/or in bios, reinstalling windows completely but nothing worked. I opened ticket on my mobo vendor but they did'nt find the clue. In the same time I spoke with a gigabyte mod on their reddit and he tell me many people have reported this issue. Probably the internal tpm firmware need to be updated. At this point I'm thinking about the CPU revision. Maybe later cpu have been made with a different process or with something different that need to be recognized and supported from a firmware update, since it works for some and not for others. When u have bought yours 5800x3d? Mine is recent, about 1 month of life. I've checked on CPU-Z and the revision is B2 (I'm going by memory, I'll post a screenshot when I'll back at home).


----------



## Imprezzion

Wow new PB! 
B2 X3D at 102.25 BCLK, RAM at 3953 15-15-15-35-50-256-2T GDM Off, IF 1976 1:1, vCore Offset -0.03125, CO -30 all core, around 1.181v load at 4552 all core now temps in the low 70's.
It shows 4.66Ghz because I have max multi set to 45.50 so it can single core boost but I don't think it's working properly. I don't see any frequency actually using the 45 or 45.5 multi so far.


----------



## mauro.ficorella94

xlollomanx said:


> Sorry replying this late but yeah I have that problem but I can't find the clue. I have a B550 Aorus Elite AX V2. I have tried countless time to reset the tpm in windows and/or in bios, reinstalling windows completely but nothing worked. I opened ticket on my mobo vendor but they did'nt find the clue. In the same time I spoke with a gigabyte mod on their reddit and he tell me many people have reported this issue. Probably the internal tpm firmware need to be updated. At this point I'm thinking about the CPU revision. Maybe later cpu have been made with a different process or with something different that need to be recognized and supported from a firmware update, since it works for some and not for others. When u have bought yours 5800x3d? Mine is recent, about 1 month of life. I've checked on CPU-Z and the revision is B2 (I'm going by memory, I'll post a screenshot when I'll back at home).


Yes i also have a recent 5800x3d, bought more or less a month ago, and also mine is revision B2 (i've just checked in cpuz). So at this point i think is a matter of newest revisions, i think that we cannot do anything, it's a problem that amd has to fix firmware side, because i also have reinstalled windows, cleared tpm, did clearcmos, flashed old versions of bios, and nothing helped.


----------



## Imprezzion

mauro.ficorella94 said:


> Yes i also have a recent 5800x3d, bought more or less a month ago, and also mine is revision B2 (i've just checked in cpuz). So at this point i think is a matter of newest revisions, i think that we cannot do anything, it's a problem that amd has to fix firmware side, because i also have reinstalled windows, cleared tpm, did clearcmos, flashed old versions of bios, and nothing helped.


Is it a Gigabyte thing then maybe? I have a B2 on a ASUS B550-A and I don't have any issues with TPM or Secure boot whatsoever. It works fine.


----------



## mauro.ficorella94

Imprezzion said:


> Is it a Gigabyte thing then maybe? I have a B2 on a ASUS B550-A and I don't have any issues with TPM or Secure boot whatsoever. It works fine.


I've an ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Hero, but i have this weird problem. What do you have in windows security under tpm attestation? 
Mine is as in this screen:


----------



## xlollomanx

Imprezzion said:


> Is it a Gigabyte thing then maybe? I have a B2 on a ASUS B550-A and I don't have any issues with TPM or Secure boot whatsoever. It works fine.





mauro.ficorella94 said:


> Yes i also have a recent 5800x3d, bought more or less a month ago, and also mine is revision B2 (i've just checked in cpuz). So at this point i think is a matter of newest revisions, i think that we cannot do anything, it's a problem that amd has to fix firmware side, because i also have reinstalled windows, cleared tpm, did clearcmos, flashed old versions of bios, and nothing helped.


I don't think so, if I'm not wrong he had an Asus motherboard.


----------



## Imprezzion

mauro.ficorella94 said:


> I've an ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Hero, but i have this weird problem. What do you have in windows security under tpm attestation?
> Mine is as in this screen:
> View attachment 2591277


----------



## mauro.ficorella94

Imprezzion said:


> View attachment 2591293


It's very strange this different behavior. I really don't know which could be the problem at this point, maybe a different revision of the tpm chip inside the x3d, i don't have any other idea at this point and it's frustrating because there should not be those different behaviors between same processors


----------



## Imprezzion

mauro.ficorella94 said:


> It's very strange this different behavior. I really don't know which could be the problem at this point, maybe a different revision of the tpm chip inside the x3d, i don't have any other idea at this point and it's frustrating because there should not be those different behaviors between same processors


Yeah my "manufacturers version" is lower but it's also a pretty new B2 X3D. The board however is a older ASUS Strix B550-A. I am running the latest AMD chipset drivers and such from AMD website not ASUS. BIOS is basically default except RAM timings and PBO/CO. I haven't changed anything in TPM or security.


----------



## mauro.ficorella94

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah my "manufacturers version" is lower but it's also a pretty new B2 X3D. The board however is a older ASUS Strix B550-A. I am running the latest AMD chipset drivers and such from AMD website not ASUS. BIOS is basically default except RAM timings and PBO/CO. I haven't changed anything in TPM or security.


I'm also running latest AMD chipset drivers from their website and not from ASUS and i also have a stock BIOS except DOCP and PBO/CO without changing anything in TPM or security sections. 
The strange thing is that i had this problem also with your manufacturers version before updating to the newest BIOS


----------



## MrHoof

mauro.ficorella94 said:


> It's very strange this different behavior. I really don't know which could be the problem at this point, maybe a different revision of the tpm chip inside the x3d, i don't have any other idea at this point and it's frustrating because there should not be those different behaviors between same processors


fTPM means firmware TPM there is no chip inside. Its all firmware.


----------



## mauro.ficorella94

MrHoof said:


> fTPM means firmware TPM there is no chip inside. Its all firmware.


So at this point this is definitely a problem from AMD side, right?


----------



## MrHoof

mauro.ficorella94 said:


> So at this point this is definitely a problem from AMD side, right?


I would rather say wrong bios settings or windows being dumb double check that fTPM is enable in bios and not discrete TPM, your board has a optional TPM slot that can fit a hardware chip but is not pre installed (needs to be bought separately).


----------



## mauro.ficorella94

MrHoof said:


> I would rather say wrong bios settings or windows being dumb double check that fTPM is enable in bios and not discrete TPM, your board has a optional TPM slot that can fit a hardware chip but is not pre installed (needs to be bought separately).


I've also tried to run a troubleshooting tool via powershell to run tpm autopilot script without success. Moreover if i go in regedit the folder "Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\TPM\WMI\Endorsement\EKCertStore\Certificates" is empty meaning that there are no certificates, which sounds very strange to me


----------



## MrHoof

mauro.ficorella94 said:


> I've also tried to run a troubleshooting tool via powershell to run tpm autopilot script without success. Moreover if i go in regedit the folder "Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\TPM\WMI\Endorsement\EKCertStore\Certificates" is empty meaning that there are no certificates, which sounds very strange to me


Did u switch your CPU recently and skipped this message with N? If thats the case you gotta reset the keys in BIOS since they are still linked to your old one.


----------



## mauro.ficorella94

MrHoof said:


> Did u switch your CPU recently and skipped this message with N? If thats the case you gotta reset the keys in BIOS since they are still linked to your old one.


Yes i switched from 5600x to 5800x3d. How can i reset the keys in the BIOS? I've already tried to reset TPM both from windows security and bios. To which key are you referring to?


----------



## chrisz5z

xlollomanx said:


> Sorry replying this late but yeah I have that problem but I can't find the clue. I have a B550 Aorus Elite AX V2. I have tried countless time to reset the tpm in windows and/or in bios, reinstalling windows completely but nothing worked. I opened ticket on my mobo vendor but they did'nt find the clue. In the same time I spoke with a gigabyte mod on their reddit and he tell me many people have reported this issue. Probably the internal tpm firmware need to be updated. At this point I'm thinking about the CPU revision. Maybe later cpu have been made with a different process or with something different that need to be recognized and supported from a firmware update, since it works for some and not for others. When u have bought yours 5800x3d? Mine is recent, about 1 month of life. I've checked on CPU-Z and the revision is B2 (I'm going by memory, I'll post a screenshot when I'll back at home).


Have you tried disabling tpm with Rufus when you make a bootable windows install usb stick + disable ftpm in BIOs?


----------



## OCmember

@zixsie Well running GDM disabled at 1T is not easy at high frequencies, AFAIK. Try using 2T w/GDM disabled.


----------



## xlollomanx

chrisz5z said:


> Have you tried disabling tpm with Rufus when you make a bootable windows install usb stick + disable ftpm in BIOs?


No, I haven't tried. But why should I do this? My motherboard and CPU should support every feature of tpm 2.0 natively, I don't see any point in doing this, unless use windows 11 without one of its security features.


----------



## MrHoof

So I tried on my System a bit and my fTPM was disabled before, just enabling it in BIOS did nothing Windows still says its disabled. 
What i did then was loading BIOS optimal defaults and anwsering the delete fTPM question with Y booted into windows and TPM is working. 
Now the the intresting part if i now load my previous bios profile that does not change anything related to ftpm or secure boot TPM stops working.
There must be something in the saved BIOS profile that breaks my fTPM, could you guys try loading BIOS defaults?


----------



## mauro.ficorella94

MrHoof said:


> So I tried on my System a bit and my fTPM was disabled before, just enabling it in BIOS did nothing Windows still says its disabled.
> What i did then was loading BIOS optimal defaults and anwsering the delete fTPM question with Y booted into windows and TPM is working.
> Now the the intresting part if i now load my previous bios profile that does not change anything related to ftpm or secure boot TPM stops working.
> There must be something in the saved BIOS profile that breaks my fTPM, could you guys try loading BIOS defaults?


I've just tried to load optimized defaults in my BIOS but it does not changed anything, i have the same problem in windows security saying attestation not supported.
I'm failing to understand if this is a problem related to CPU or motherboard


----------



## senzu

Hi guys!

I've managed to get 32 gigs of Kingston Fury Renegade 3600 CL16 dual rank ram, which seem to work @ 3733 Mhz. Could you recommend me which timing to set lower to reducy latency? Thanks!


----------



## AXi0M

mauro.ficorella94 said:


> So at this point this is definitely a problem from AMD side, right?


it sais version v2.0 right above


----------



## chrisz5z

xlollomanx said:


> No, I haven't tried. But why should I do this? My motherboard and CPU should support every feature of tpm 2.0 natively, I don't see any point in doing this, unless use windows 11 without one of its security features.


Performance reasons. I never needed it on Windows 10 & I still don't need it on Windows 11


----------



## ludovicoleone

I can't make it stable with -20 negative on all cores. B550f wifi. OCCT passed but Y cruncher gives me reboot. Do I have the defective CPU? Almost everyone can achieve easily -30 but I cannot make it stable even at -20. Please help.


----------



## Frosted racquet

@ludovicoleone Not everyone can achieve -30 stable. A defective CPU would need a positive CO to be stable, you're still well within normal


----------



## Imprezzion

Y-cruncher also gives me reboots when using BCLK OC. Like within 5 seconds. Other tests are stable. Could it be that I just need more voltage? I am running just 1.18v ish at 4550 all core..

Then again, it never reached that in y-cruncher as it throttles due to temps. Usually sits around 4400 but with lower voltage.


----------



## Frosted racquet

Test with CoreCycler, you can configure it to run Kagari set from YCruncher. That should boost single core to 4550+


----------



## bottjeremy

zixsie said:


> I am running a 3080 10GB which is quite stable and does not bottleneck me in the most CPU heavy games i do play.
> 
> 
> 
> I tried and it is reported as B-Die, but i do not believe that. Can not overclock it more than 3400mhz and be stable, no matter what voltages i run and memory timings. It does post up to 3600mhz, but is fully unstable.
> 
> View attachment 2591264


Gotcha. Some fresh B-Die and a nice OC will make a difference. Not every game will see a huge jump, but def worth it.









G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C14D-32GVK - Newegg.com


Buy G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C14D-32GVK with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com










Are you a human?







www.newegg.com


----------



## zixsie

bottjeremy said:


> Gotcha. Some fresh B-Die and a nice OC will make a difference. Not every game will see a huge jump, but def worth it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C14D-32GVK - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C14D-32GVK with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a human?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com


Thanks man for the advise. Unfortunately i am in EU and can not find this memory here around. Will look for other options for C14 3600mhz RAM. Really don`t want to spend much $ for a new RAM, but at the same time want to get rid of this stutters...

EDIT: I am getting really annoyed by the microstutters i get even though i can not feel them. But looking at my 99% FPS makes me really pissed off. It seems that those microstutters are present in even many more games i do play, so certainly it is not related with poor optimized game engines.
On top of that, my system is fully stable so i am lost now. I am starting to doubt that a RAM upgrade will sort this issue at all since 3200mhz Dual Rank C16 RAM with optimized subtimings should not be that bad.
Also since i am using an upgraded OS from W10->W11 without clean install, may be just may be this could be the culprit? I really don`t want to go for a clean install of W11. My FPS otherwise is just fine hitting the max refresh rate, but those 99% FPS stutters are killing me.


----------



## chrisz5z

zixsie said:


> Thanks man for the advise. Unfortunately i am in EU and can not find this memory here around. Will look for other options for C14 3600mhz RAM. Really don`t want to spend much $ for a new RAM, but at the same time want to get rid of this stutters...
> 
> EDIT: I am getting really annoyed by the microstutters i get even though i can not feel them. But looking at my 99% FPS makes me really pissed off. It seems that those microstutters are present in even many more games i do play, so certainly it is not related with poor optimized game engines.
> On top of that, my system is fully stable so i am lost now. I am starting to doubt that a RAM upgrade will sort this issue at all since 3200mhz Dual Rank C16 RAM with optimized subtimings should not be that bad.
> Also since i am using an upgraded OS from W10->W11 without clean install, may be just may be this could be the culprit? I really don`t want to go for a clean install of W11. My FPS otherwise is just fine hitting the max refresh rate, but those 99% FPS stutters are killing me.


It could be the upgrade...also could be a process/service running, or latency is too high on one of your drivers. I'd figure those out or at least do a clean install to rule those out before spending money.


----------



## Imprezzion

zixsie said:


> Thanks man for the advise. Unfortunately i am in EU and can not find this memory here around. Will look for other options for C14 3600mhz RAM. Really don`t want to spend much $ for a new RAM, but at the same time want to get rid of this stutters...
> 
> EDIT: I am getting really annoyed by the microstutters i get even though i can not feel them. But looking at my 99% FPS makes me really pissed off. It seems that those microstutters are present in even many more games i do play, so certainly it is not related with poor optimized game engines.
> On top of that, my system is fully stable so i am lost now. I am starting to doubt that a RAM upgrade will sort this issue at all since 3200mhz Dual Rank C16 RAM with optimized subtimings should not be that bad.
> Also since i am using an upgraded OS from W10->W11 without clean install, may be just may be this could be the culprit? I really don`t want to go for a clean install of W11. My FPS otherwise is just fine hitting the max refresh rate, but those 99% FPS stutters are killing me.


Are you using Resizable BAR and / or Hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduler? I'm on a clean W11 22H2 install and have both enabled and I have absolutely no stuttering even with slow RAM. I recently tested a kit I got for free from a mate and that's a 3200C16-18-18 Trident-Z kit and I had zero 99% issues at all in for example Black Desert or Division 2.


----------



## bottjeremy

zixsie said:


> Thanks man for the advise. Unfortunately i am in EU and can not find this memory here around. Will look for other options for C14 3600mhz RAM. Really don`t want to spend much $ for a new RAM, but at the same time want to get rid of this stutters...
> 
> EDIT: I am getting really annoyed by the microstutters i get even though i can not feel them. But looking at my 99% FPS makes me really pissed off. It seems that those microstutters are present in even many more games i do play, so certainly it is not related with poor optimized game engines.
> On top of that, my system is fully stable so i am lost now. I am starting to doubt that a RAM upgrade will sort this issue at all since 3200mhz Dual Rank C16 RAM with optimized subtimings should not be that bad.
> Also since i am using an upgraded OS from W10->W11 without clean install, may be just may be this could be the culprit? I really don`t want to go for a clean install of W11. My FPS otherwise is just fine hitting the max refresh rate, but those 99% FPS stutters are killing me.


I rarely have microstutters in games. Which games are you seeing this in? Might want to do a DDU.


----------



## zixsie

chrisz5z said:


> It could be the upgrade...also could be a process/service running, or latency is too high on one of your drivers. I'd figure those out or at least do a clean install to rule those out before spending money.


Probably that is what coming next.



Imprezzion said:


> Are you using Resizable BAR and / or Hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduler? I'm on a clean W11 22H2 install and have both enabled and I have absolutely no stuttering even with slow RAM. I recently tested a kit I got for free from a mate and that's a 3200C16-18-18 Trident-Z kit and I had zero 99% issues at all in for example Black Desert or Division 2.


Yes, i am using Resizable BAR & HAGS both enabled. Tried to disable them but no difference.


bottjeremy said:


> I rarely have microstutters in games. Which games are you seeing this in? Might want to do a DDU.


Those microstutters are present in Hell Let Loose, Isonzo, Cyberpunk, Squad.


----------



## nighty2k7

Hi guys,
I have been using and PBO2 tuner on my 5800x3d and can get down to -30 on all cores without trouble on my MSI B550 Tomahawk Max. Everything below -30 does not change voltage and package power any more. Is there a limit in place on pbo2 tuner or MSI boards? Or is it a limit on the cpu itsself?

I'm getting voltage min at 0.900 at idle, 1.15v at full load
Running a Noctua NH-D15 at around 90% max (1411rpm)
One thread in prime nets 62°C, fans at 800rpm
All core workload (2nd option in prime95) results in 4324 Mhz allcore at 86-87°C

I guess I could max out the fan speed to get all core 4450 Mhz but i'd rather be able to further reduce voltage on the cpu, but there I seem to be stuck


----------



## Imprezzion

zixsie said:


> Probably that is what coming next.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, i am using Resizable BAR & HAGS both enabled. Tried to disable them but no difference.
> 
> 
> Those microstutters are present in Hell Let Loose, Isonzo, Cyberpunk, Squad.


What software do you use for capturing 99th percentile.? CapframeX? I can do a little test with Cyberpunk. I have it installed and play actively but mine is strongly modded tho.


----------



## zixsie

Imprezzion said:


> What software do you use for capturing 99th percentile.? CapframeX? I can do a little test with Cyberpunk. I have it installed and play actively but mine is strongly modded tho.


I am running the NVIDIA overlay, enabled with Alt+R. But you need to have installed Geforce Experience for that. Will appreciate if you can test on your end, thank you.
I just did a DDU and drivers uninstall (GPU+Chipset) but no difference.

EDIT: Looking at the Latency monitor, i see two drivers causing high latency. Searching online for those it seems many users are having same issues with those drivers, but no idea how to resolve them.


----------



## Imprezzion

zixsie said:


> I am running the NVIDIA overlay, enabled with Alt+R. But you need to have installed Geforce Experience for that. Will appreciate if you can test on your end, thank you.
> I just did a DDU and drivers uninstall (GPU+Chipset) but no difference.


Sure. Coming up in an hour or so.

EDIT: She's rock solid. Haven't really seen the 99% minimums go much lower then FPS -10 ish. This is 1080P, all Ultra, RT Psycho, no DLSS, 4K and 8K texture mods for most surfaces, ReShade, everything. If I enable DLSS Quality it goes to 115FPS with 99% in the 108 range.


----------



## zixsie

Imprezzion said:


> Sure. Coming up in an hour or so.
> 
> EDIT: She's rock solid. Haven't really seen the 99% minimums go much lower then FPS -10 ish. This is 1080P, all Ultra, RT Psycho, no DLSS, 4K and 8K texture mods for most surfaces, ReShade, everything. If I enable DLSS Quality it goes to 115FPS with 99% in the 108 range.
> 
> View attachment 2591499


Thanks man, really appreciate it. Can you give it some more extensive testing while driving in busy city areas and watch on the 99% percent? Since i have 99% FPS stutters only intermittently so not all the time they are low. Normally 99% are close to FPS, but sometimes they drop a lot.


----------



## Imprezzion

zixsie said:


> Thanks man, really appreciate it. Can you give it some more extensive testing while driving in busy city areas and watch on the 99% percent? Since i have 99% FPS stutters only intermittently so not all the time they are low. Normally 99% are close to FPS, but sometimes they drop a lot.


Done 2 side missions and drove around a bit, 1 saw 1 spike down to 36 99% but that was it. It stays within 5-8 FPS the entire time.


----------



## SoaRüm

@zixsie try to use the MSI_util_v3 tool:


----------



## Imprezzion

BCLK OC does weird stuff btw... I have loads of WHEA interconnect errors at any vSOC/VDDG/VDDP/CPU1.8v settings at memory / IF speeds I would normally at 100 bclk be able to run. I use 102.25 bclk with 1867 multi for FCLK which is like, 1908.8 effective. That should be fine as I can run up to 2000 fine. But even with way over scaled voltages it still errors like mad in memtests.. it just doesn't like BCLK OC. Which is a shame because I got it to pass CPU-Z bench with 6630 all core and Cinebench R23 multithreaded 15590 score.. took 103.2 BCLK to do so but it seemed to work fine..


----------



## Frikencio

This is -30 CO.
Stock BIOS with lowered VSOC (Around 1V).
RAM is 3600Mhz.
Platform is X370.


----------



## Frosted racquet

@Frikencio Nice score. Which cooler? I'm assuming watercooled?


----------



## Frikencio

The Noctua cooler with AM3 bracket.












Frosted racquet said:


> @Frikencio Nice score. Which cooler? I'm assuming watercooled?


----------



## zixsie

Guys, i need some help from your end. I could not find such benchmarks on the web thus i am asking here.
Could someone please try to run game benchmarks with heavy CPU titles and compare the performance discrepancy between running very tight RAM timings and loose RAM timings, as for example:
Loose 36-18-18-16
Tight 34-14-14-14 with tight subtimings ( tRC,tRRDS,tFAW,tRFC)

I need to gather some info if it is worth it for me to upgrade from my loose timings RAM to something better as B-Die`s.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## AXi0M

zixsie said:


> Guys, i need some help from your end. I could not find such benchmarks on the web thus i am asking here.
> Could someone please try to run game benchmarks with heavy CPU titles and compare the performance discrepancy between running very tight RAM timings and loose RAM timings, as for example:
> Loose 36-18-18-16
> Tight 34-14-14-14 with tight subtimings ( tRC,tRRDS,tFAW,tRFC)
> 
> I need to gather some info if it is worth it for me to upgrade from my loose timings RAM to something better as B-Die`s.
> Thanks in advance.


Lemme guess... a couple %


----------



## Jabdah

to be honest... guess the only thing that might help to OC the 5800x3D is :








and his toad


----------



## Netherwind

Guess this question has been asked many times but I'll have to ask it myself - anyone upgraded from a 5900X to a 5800X3D purely for gaming? How do the temps compare between the two? Does the 5800X3D handle a 4090 better than the 5900X?


----------



## nx1987

Netherwind said:


> Guess this question has been asked many times but I'll have to ask it myself - anyone upgraded from a 5900X to a 5800X3D purely for gaming? How do the temps compare between the two? Does the 5800X3D handle a 4090 better than the 5900X?


Yes sir me, and i can say ther ist a big diferency i gaming Performance!


----------



## Netherwind

nx1987 said:


> Yes sir me, and i can say ther ist a big diferency i gaming Performance!


Thanks! Any word on temp differences between the two?


----------



## bottjeremy

Netherwind said:


> Guess this question has been asked many times but I'll have to ask it myself - anyone upgraded from a 5900X to a 5800X3D purely for gaming? How do the temps compare between the two? Does the 5800X3D handle a 4090 better than the 5900X?


I upgraded purely for gaming and made a few videos comparing the 2 CPUs. 

For the videos:
4090 - Overclock
For the 5900X - PBO enabled with 3800/1900 on ram with aggressive sub-timings tune.
For the 5800X3D - Kombo Strike 3 (CO -30) 3733/1867 basic tune without all of the sub-timings. 

I re-ran the benchmarks after this particular video was made on the 5800X3D, and after stabilizing my sub-timings, I picked up 5% FPS. I posted the updated data in the comment section of the vid.


----------



## MrNiceGuy007

Well guys... here are the results i manage to get with my 5800x3d from aliexpress and crucial ballistix 3600 from ali ... mother gigabyte b550m aorus pro-p (last bios agesa 1.2.0.7) from local store.. tried to get fsb 103 but no luck... it just wont start (pc i mean) need to reset bios after 103.. 
I will be glad if you tell what i can try to improve.... maybe test agesa 1.2.0.6


----------



## Frosted racquet

Have a weird issue, not sure what is causing it since I'm still testing. Started testing with 1800 IF, when I got an error in CoreCycler, Event Viewer always had WHEA 18 Cache Hierarchy Error which means it's the core.
Increased RAM speed to 1866/3733, TestMem5 and ycruncher 1-7-0 pass without issues on 1.025 VSOC, 1.8v 1P8. But now, core 0 always crashes with this error while testing with CoreCycler (Kagari):
WHEA 18
A fatal hardware error has occurred.

Reported by component: Processor Core
Error Source: Machine Check Exception
Error Type: *Bus/Interconnect Error*
Processor APIC ID: 0

and what's weird is that it happens only when Core 6 is tested/stressed in CoreCycler. Am I correct that I should only adjust VSOC and/or 1.8v and not the CO value of Core 0?


----------



## MrNiceGuy007

Frosted racquet said:


> Have a weird issue, not sure what is causing it since I'm still testing. Started testing with 1800 IF, when I got an error in CoreCycler, Event Viewer always had WHEA 18 Cache Hierarchy Error which means it's the core.
> Increased RAM speed to 1866/3733, TestMem5 and ycruncher 1-7-0 pass without issues on 1.025 VSOC, 1.8v 1P8. But now, core 0 always crashes with this error while testing with CoreCycler (Kagari):
> WHEA 18
> A fatal hardware error has occurred.
> 
> Reported by component: Processor Core
> Error Source: Machine Check Exception
> Error Type: *Bus/Interconnect Error*
> Processor APIC ID: 0
> 
> and what's weird is that it happens only when Core 6 is tested/stressed in CoreCycler. Am I correct that I should only adjust VSOC and/or 1.8v and not the CO value of Core 0?


try to give ram 1.45 v or even 1.5 .. if ur ram have passive cooling .. you should have around 50 degrees and thats fine


----------



## Frosted racquet

RAM is stable, memory controller is the issue most likely


----------



## daninthemix

I dropped in a 5800X3D in place of a 5950X, and I am trying to nail down a minor stutter issue. By that I mean most games will stutter for a split second every few minutes. I've tried a lot of Windows optimisations, I've turned off CPPC Preferred Cores, I've done the .05 negative offset to reduce temperature spikes. System is running incredibly clean as far as I can tell.

Is there any sensible, somewhat scientfic way of nailing down what causes periodic stutters?

The task is complicated by the fact that some games - e.g. Borderlands 3 - are well known for being prone to stutter (as with most Unreal Engine 4 games). On the whole it runs smoothly with a 120fps frame limit.

What else can be done? Or is periodix micro-stutter simply a fact of gaming? (BTW, does it happen on consoles?)

System:

5800X3D
64GB RAM
Firecuda 2TB NVME4
Windows 11
GTX 4090

Thanks in advance


----------



## MrNiceGuy007

daninthemix said:


> I dropped in a 5800X3D in place of a 5950X, and I am trying to nail down a minor stutter issue. By that I mean most games will stutter for a split second every few minutes. I've tried a lot of Windows optimisations, I've turned off CPPC Preferred Cores, I've done the .05 negative offset to reduce temperature spikes. System is running incredibly clean as far as I can tell.
> 
> Is there any sensible, somewhat scientfic way of nailing down what causes periodic stutters?
> 
> The task is complicated by the fact that some games - e.g. Borderlands 3 - are well known for being prone to stutter (as with most Unreal Engine 4 games). On the whole it runs smoothly with a 120fps frame limit.
> 
> What else can be done? Or is periodix micro-stutter simply a fact of gaming? (BTW, does it happen on consoles?)
> 
> System:
> 
> 5800X3D
> 64GB RAM
> Firecuda 2TB NVME4
> Windows 11
> GTX 4090
> 
> Thanks in advance


Welcome to 5800x3d reality ... I will stutter . I got same issue


----------



## Frosted racquet

daninthemix said:


> I dropped in a 5800X3D in place of a 5950X, and I am trying to nail down a minor stutter issue. By that I mean most games will stutter for a split second every few minutes. I've tried a lot of Windows optimisations, I've turned off CPPC Preferred Cores, I've done the .05 negative offset to reduce temperature spikes. System is running incredibly clean as far as I can tell.
> 
> Is there any sensible, somewhat scientfic way of nailing down what causes periodic stutters?


Which BIOS version are you using? Try running LatencyMon in the background while gaming and see if there's a driver issue Resplendence Software - Free Downloads


----------



## daninthemix

Frosted racquet said:


> Which BIOS version are you using? Try running LatencyMon in the background while gaming and see if there's a driver issue Resplendence Software - Free Downloads


2806 on an Asus B550-F Gaming. I will try LatencyMon - thanks.


----------



## Imprezzion

B550-A here, a white version of the F, also 2806 BIOS. Zero stuttering whatsoever with the X3D and a 3090 @ 400w. It's not RAM or IF related, mine is super smooth even at 3600C16 DOCP with Auto everything. It does really want -30 CO and a small offset like, 0.3125 to work well. 0.500 can on my board limit boost effective clocks a LOT and doesn't work well. Try only -30 all core CO and/or max 0.3125 offset not lower.


----------



## Netherwind

bottjeremy said:


> I upgraded purely for gaming and made a few videos comparing the 2 CPUs.
> 
> For the videos:
> 4090 - Overclock
> For the 5900X - PBO enabled with 3800/1900 on ram with aggressive sub-timings tune.
> For the 5800X3D - Kombo Strike 3 (CO -30) 3733/1867 basic tune without all of the sub-timings.
> 
> I re-ran the benchmarks after this particular video was made on the 5800X3D, and after stabilizing my sub-timings, I picked up 5% FPS. I posted the updated data in the comment section of the vid.


Wow, huge temp difference there! 
Thanks for the info.



daninthemix said:


> I dropped in a 5800X3D in place of a 5950X, and I am trying to nail down a minor stutter issue. By that I mean most games will stutter for a split second every few minutes. I've tried a lot of Windows optimisations, I've turned off CPPC Preferred Cores, I've done the .05 negative offset to reduce temperature spikes. System is running incredibly clean as far as I can tell.
> 
> Is there any sensible, somewhat scientfic way of nailing down what causes periodic stutters?
> 
> The task is complicated by the fact that some games - e.g. Borderlands 3 - are well known for being prone to stutter (as with most Unreal Engine 4 games). On the whole it runs smoothly with a 120fps frame limit.
> 
> What else can be done? Or is periodix micro-stutter simply a fact of gaming? (BTW, does it happen on consoles?)
> 
> System:
> 
> 5800X3D
> 64GB RAM
> Firecuda 2TB NVME4
> Windows 11
> GTX 4090
> 
> Thanks in advance





MrNiceGuy007 said:


> Welcome to 5800x3d reality ... I will stutter . I got same issue


Wait, is everyone having these micro stutters? That's not great at all.


----------



## frankie90

Netherwind said:


> Wait, is everyone having these micro stutters? That's not great at all.


No, we aren’t.


----------



## chrisz5z

Netherwind said:


> Wait, is everyone having these micro stutters? That's not great at all.


----------



## MrNiceGuy007

frankie90 said:


> No, we aren’t.


im sure you have your eye maybe just cant notice that..... 5800x3d is fking micro stuttering . Im complaining about stutters in page 180 this thread ... but thing is maybe its just **** software that does not optimised for 5800x3d


----------



## Ironcobra

MrNiceGuy007 said:


> im sure you have your eye maybe just cant notice that..... 5800x3d is fking micro stuttering . Im complaining about stutters in page 180 this thread ... but thing is maybe its just **** software that does not optimised for 5800x3d


Hags on or off?


----------



## MrNiceGuy007

Ironcobra said:


> Hags on or off?


off for me


----------



## AXi0M

MrNiceGuy007 said:


> 5800x3d is fking micro stuttering


*Your* system is stuttering



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence


----------



## King4x4

Any news when the new 7000 series x3D chips come along? Debating grabbing a 5800x3d or just waiting for the new ones.


----------



## frankie90

MrNiceGuy007 said:


> im sure you have your eye maybe just cant notice that..... 5800x3d is fking micro stuttering . Im complaining about stutters in page 180 this thread ... but thing is maybe its just **** software that does not optimised for 5800x3d


Look, I’m not claiming to be some MLG pro player, but I do have a 240Hz monitor and a 4KHz polling rate mouse - I feel like I _probably_ would have felt some stuttering somewhere at some point. If you don’t want to take my word for it, all good! But where are the flood of other complaints in this forum? All over the internet? In the various reviews? Lots of 5800X3D’s have been sold - we would see a lot more complaints than one here or there… 



AXi0M said:


> *Your* system is stuttering
> 
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence


Thank you. Lol


----------



## chrisz5z

MrNiceGuy007 said:


> im sure you have your eye maybe just cant notice that..... 5800x3d is fking micro stuttering . Im complaining about stutters in page 180 this thread ... but thing is maybe its just **** software that does not optimised for 5800x3d


Could be many things...drivers, RAM, FCLK, GPU, Windows Config, etc...tracking it down is part of the fun


----------



## MrNiceGuy007

frankie90 said:


> Look, I’m not claiming to be some MLG pro player, but I do have a 240Hz monitor and a 4KHz polling rate mouse - I feel like I _probably_ would have felt some stuttering somewhere at some point. If you don’t want to take my word for it, all good! But where are the flood of other complaints in this forum? All over the internet? In the various reviews? Lots of 5800X3D’s have been sold - we would see a lot more complaints than one here or there…
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. Lol


could be any thing ) ... to be honest after i updated to agesa 1.2.0.7 iget less stutters .. with pbo2 -35 all . cyberpunk runs no stutter at all finally witcher no stutter ... only **** warzone 2.0 random micro stutter... as i said before it could be software problems...


----------



## jonRock1992

MrNiceGuy007 said:


> im sure you have your eye maybe just cant notice that..... 5800x3d is fking micro stuttering . Im complaining about stutters in page 180 this thread ... but thing is maybe its just **** software that does not optimised for 5800x3d


I would suggest a clean windows install if you did not do that when you switched to the 5800X3D. I don't have any CPU-related stuttering as far as I'm aware. There has definitely been a lot of shader compilation stutter in recent games. Are you sure it's related to the CPU? I would also recommend the Ultimate Windows Tweaker app, and in the Privacy section, tick all of the boxes. There are also a ton of other tweaks in that app that might help with stuttering. OOS is also another good app to help tune your system.


----------



## AXi0M

MrNiceGuy007 said:


> could be any thing ) ... to be honest after i updated to agesa 1.2.0.7 iget less stutters .. with pbo2 -35 all . cyberpunk runs no stutter at all finally witcher no stutter ... only **** warzone 2.0 random micro stutter... as i said before it could be software problems...


The fact that your think a -35 curve works shows your testing is flawed


----------



## dansi

The stutter is from amd broken implementation of ftpm in zen3. Even with latest 1.2.0.7 agesa, it still stutters.

It is not the kind of underpowered gpu stutters. But something that happens randomly for a seconds in game. You are more likely to miss it if in hectic playthroughs, mistaking it for gpu 0.1% low drops.

Or if you do not enable ftpm services.

But it is there. I thought it was my pbo or ram or unstable whea. But i checked event viewer, no errors. Only stutters.


----------



## chrisz5z

dansi said:


> The stutter is from amd broken implementation of ftpm in zen3. Even with latest 1.2.0.7 agesa, it still stutters.
> 
> It is not the kind of underpowered gpu stutters. But something that happens randomly for a seconds in game. You are more likely to miss it if in hectic playthroughs, mistaking it for gpu 0.1% low drops.
> 
> Or if you do not enable ftpm services.
> 
> But it is there. I thought it was my pbo or ram or unstable whea. But i checked event viewer, no errors. Only stutters.


That could be a possibility. Only way to know for sure is to run W11 without tpm/secure boot & compare. Easiest way is to use Rufus to remove the requirements in a fresh install.

Thats what I did...currently running W11 without tpm/secure boot, no stutter issues


----------



## frankie90

Interesting, I do have fTMP disabled.


----------



## jonan14

[CITA="frankie90, publicación: 29107632, miembro: 410217"]
Interesante, tengo fTMP deshabilitado.
[/CITA]








fTPM turn-off experiment - STAY AWAY!


To all the people who own an AMD-powered System (mine is a Ryzen 7 5800X with 32GB DDR4 3200 and a PowerColor RX 6900XT, all on a Gigabyte Aero G X570S) and are experiencing lag and microstutters due to AMD’s/Microsoft’s bad implementation of the so called “firmware Trusted Platform Module...




forums.flightsimulator.com


----------



## frankie90

jonan14 said:


> [CITA="frankie90, publicación: 29107632, miembro: 410217"]
> Interesante, tengo fTMP deshabilitado.
> [/CITA]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fTPM turn-off experiment - STAY AWAY!
> 
> 
> To all the people who own an AMD-powered System (mine is a Ryzen 7 5800X with 32GB DDR4 3200 and a PowerColor RX 6900XT, all on a Gigabyte Aero G X570S) and are experiencing lag and microstutters due to AMD’s/Microsoft’s bad implementation of the so called “firmware Trusted Platform Module...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forums.flightsimulator.com


I haven’t had any of those issues with fTPM disabled on Win11 or currently on Win10. I also have an extensive Xbox library installed, including MSFS.


----------



## tabascosauz

daninthemix said:


> I dropped in a 5800X3D in place of a 5950X, and I am trying to nail down a minor stutter issue. By that I mean most games will stutter for a split second every few minutes. I've tried a lot of Windows optimisations, I've turned off CPPC Preferred Cores, I've done the .05 negative offset to reduce temperature spikes. System is running incredibly clean as far as I can tell.
> 
> Is there any sensible, somewhat scientfic way of nailing down what causes periodic stutters?
> 
> The task is complicated by the fact that some games - e.g. Borderlands 3 - are well known for being prone to stutter (as with most Unreal Engine 4 games). On the whole it runs smoothly with a 120fps frame limit.
> 
> What else can be done? Or is periodix micro-stutter simply a fact of gaming? (BTW, does it happen on consoles?)
> 
> System:
> 
> 5800X3D
> 64GB RAM
> Firecuda 2TB NVME4
> Windows 11
> GTX 4090
> 
> Thanks in advance


Is this a Windows clean install? 

When I first got my 5800X3D I was trying to chase down microstuttering in almost all my games. Benchmark scores were fine and clocks were fine, Latencymon wouldn't catch anything.

After I reinstalled 22H2 it was all smooth sailing from there.


----------



## dansi

jonan14 said:


> [CITA="frankie90, publicación: 29107632, miembro: 410217"]
> Interesante, tengo fTMP deshabilitado.
> [/CITA]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fTPM turn-off experiment - STAY AWAY!
> 
> 
> To all the people who own an AMD-powered System (mine is a Ryzen 7 5800X with 32GB DDR4 3200 and a PowerColor RX 6900XT, all on a Gigabyte Aero G X570S) and are experiencing lag and microstutters due to AMD’s/Microsoft’s bad implementation of the so called “firmware Trusted Platform Module...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forums.flightsimulator.com


There is a bios settings to reset ftmp keys after you turn it off then on again.
He should have done that instead of reinstall everything


----------



## daninthemix2

tabascosauz said:


> Is this a Windows clean install?
> 
> When I first got my 5800X3D I was trying to chase down microstuttering in almost all my games. Benchmark scores were fine and clocks were fine, Latencymon wouldn't catch anything.
> 
> After I reinstalled 22H2 it was all smooth sailing from there.


That's a heck of a lot of work for a shot in the dark. I'd want to know _why _this might be useful - especially as I already did a fresh install earlier in the year.


----------



## Aaq

I went back to my 5950X because I couldn't fix the 5800X3D stuttering issues. Even did a clean W11 22H2 install. Waiting for 7000X3D now.


----------



## lestatdk

So far the pattern appears to be Windows 11 with ftpm causing stutters.

I'm on Windows 10 and have no issues at all


----------



## daninthemix

Aaq said:


> I went back to my 5950X because I couldn't fix the 5800X3D stuttering issues. Even did a clean W11 22H2 install. Waiting for 7000X3D now.


Can you describe the stutter?

One of the problems is stutter can be a million different things to different people. What I'm describing is butter smoothness most of the time, and then a noticable stutter - as in a momentary loss of that smoothness for maybe less than a quarter of a second - and this happens maybe several times over the course of 10 minutes.


----------



## Aaq

Frametime spikes, hiccups, mini freezes of less than a second. Happens mostly when turning the camera in games. Or zooming in with a scope. Like it has issues loading assets. When stationary mostly fine. Maybe 4x Bdie memory is too much for the memory controller?


----------



## daninthemix

Aaq said:


> Frametime spikes, hiccups, mini freezes of less than a second. Happens mostly when turning the camera in games. Or zooming in with a scope. Like it has issues loading assets. When stationary mostly fine. Maybe 4x Bdie memory is too much for the memory controller?


Exactly what I get - felt like issues loading assets. I do not want to drop my 5950X back in though


----------



## AXi0M

lestatdk said:


> So far the pattern appears to be Windows 11 with ftpm causing stutters.
> 
> I'm on Windows 10 and have no issues at all


 W11 22H2 with tpm enabled, feel like i just ate popcorn from the buttery smooth frames


----------



## Imprezzion

W11 22H2 clean install, ftpm enabled, hags and rebar enabled, on a 4.0 m.2 (980 pro 1tb). -30 CO -0.3125 vCore offset, 3866C15 RAM 1:1. Cyberpunk and Tiny Tina Wonderland is super smooth with the 3090. Warzone is... Questionable... I only played loads of DMZ with some friends and it was "good enough". Uncharted remaster is fine, Halo MCC is fine, Division 2 is very smooth...

But, what I did notice, bit of a different thing, is the insane temps this thing can hit.. settings as above. Cinebench R23 runs fine around 74c ish. However Y-cruncher just smashes past 80 right away and throttles to 4325-4300Mhz around 83c. Also, games like Tiny Tina or Division 2 which are quite CPU heavy can easily let it hit in the mid 70's while sustaining full 4450 boost. This is quite shocking to me as I run a EK Velocity D-RGB with the AMD conversion mount kit and a pretty OP custom loop. The 3090 stays under 50c even at 400w constant load but the CPU.. nope.. It just gets insanely hot even at barely 90w power draw..


----------



## chrisz5z

Aaq said:


> Maybe 4x Bdie memory is too much for the memory controller?


Maybe more so the 4x16GB, I run 4x8GB Bdie with no issues


----------



## lestatdk

chrisz5z said:


> Maybe more so the 4x16GB, I run 4x8GB Bdie with no issues


Same here I have 4 sticks of B-die


----------



## daninthemix

Interestingly I've managed to locate a reproducible stutter in the Cyberpunk 2077 benchmark - as the camera exits the bar and goes around the corner there's a stutter at the same moment every time I run the benchmark. Doesn't matter what the frame-rate is, I can change DLSS settings and go from 60 to 120 fps, the same stutter seems to happen at that exact point.


----------



## Frosted racquet

Then it's the game that's to blame. Unigine Heaven also stutters at exact points in the benchmark, noting to do with the hardware


----------



## daninthemix

Frosted racquet said:


> Then it's the game that's to blame. Unigine Heaven also stutters at exact points in the benchmark, noting to do with the hardware


Alright but I'd love it if someone else could confirm that the stutter exists for them too.


----------



## Frosted racquet

daninthemix said:


> Alright but I'd love it if someone else could confirm that the stutter exists for them too.


You might want to post in the 4090 thread as well, higher chance of finding someone having the same config as you. I can check the benchmark on a 6600XT, Win 10 at 1080p, but it's comparing frogs and grandmothers


----------



## Nd4spdvn

daninthemix said:


> Alright but I'd love it if someone else could confirm that the stutter exists for them too.


I can tell you that I've seen it happening not just on my 5800X3D/4090 machine but also in one of my friend's 12900K/3090ti setup and it manifested too after he changed his 3090ti to a 4090 as well. So, it comes with the benchmark itself.


----------



## mtbiker033

Can you record some gameplay with it happening?


----------



## tabascosauz

daninthemix2 said:


> That's a heck of a lot of work for a shot in the dark. I'd want to know _why _this might be useful - especially as I already did a fresh install earlier in the year.


I'm as stumped as you are. The only synthetic bench that suggested something was wrong was my AIDA latency was consistently 1-2ns slow. I keep my Windows in good health, debloated to some degree, and always for no longer than a year.

Normal latency for the 3733CL14 profile I run on this CPU is 57.0-57.5ns. On the dirty install I barely made it below 60ns, run after run.

After clean install the difference was night and day. Basically every game I play was affected to some degree.



lestatdk said:


> So far the pattern appears to be Windows 11 with ftpm causing stutters.
> 
> I'm on Windows 10 and have no issues at all





Aaq said:


> Frametime spikes, hiccups, mini freezes of less than a second. Happens mostly when turning the camera in games. Or zooming in with a scope. Like it has issues loading assets. When stationary mostly fine. Maybe 4x Bdie memory is too much for the memory controller?


The fTPM "stutter" shouldn't be called stutter, it's incredibly obvious and distinctive. Lag is a better word. If you have it, you'll know for sure. Anything subtle is not due to fTPM.

Earlier in 2021 I was switching between clean installs of 11 and 10 on the rate of roughly once or twice a month. Win 11 does not cause random stutters outside of the unique fTPM issue - if you have stutters then you need to be investigating elsewhere.


----------



## jonRock1992

lestatdk said:


> So far the pattern appears to be Windows 11 with ftpm causing stutters.
> 
> I'm on Windows 10 and have no issues at all


I'm also on Windows 10 with fTPM disabled, and I have no stuttering issues. I did a clean install after I switched from a 5800X. I'm even using 101.8 BCLK with 3800 MHz RAM @14-14-14-14-28-42, 1900 MHz FCLK, and Kombo Strike level 1 (-10 all-core CO). I get around 645 ST points in CPU-Z with this tuning. Latency was an issue for me after coming from my 5800X, but I got those issues sorted out after a clean install and memory tuning tweaks.


----------



## xAD3r1ty

on a 5800x3d and 4090 crosshair vi hero (x370) , no stutters other than games that are known to stutter with dx12 , which is a lot of games nowadays, i'm actually surprised so many people are complaining and i'm gonna say it's probably user error, unstable undervolt/oc on cpu can give stutter, bad/unstable ram oc can give stutter, bad gpu oc/uv can also make games stutter


----------



## Frosted racquet

Frosted racquet said:


> Have a weird issue, not sure what is causing it since I'm still testing. Started testing with 1800 IF, when I got an error in CoreCycler, Event Viewer always had WHEA 18 Cache Hierarchy Error which means it's the core.
> Increased RAM speed to 1866/3733, TestMem5 and ycruncher 1-7-0 pass without issues on 1.025 VSOC, 1.8v 1P8. But now, core 0 always crashes with this error while testing with CoreCycler (Kagari):
> WHEA 18
> A fatal hardware error has occurred.
> 
> Reported by component: Processor Core
> Error Source: Machine Check Exception
> Error Type: *Bus/Interconnect Error*
> Processor APIC ID: 0
> 
> and what's weird is that it happens only when Core 6 is tested/stressed in CoreCycler. Am I correct that I should only adjust VSOC and/or 1.8v and not the CO value of Core 0?


Anyone have experience with this? Can a Bus/Interconnect Error be due to low CO on 3733 RAM?
So far what I've found is:
-happens within 5-6h of CoreCycler testing with Kagari profile
-Core 0 crashes with Bus/Interconnect Error only when Core 6 is tested in CoreCycler according to logs
-tried increasing VSOC/1P8 and VDDP/G but still error

Currently testing with 0 CO and 3733 RAM @1.05v VSOC. If it is due to CO, do I lower core 0 CO or core 6 CO? Only Core 0 is mentioned in Event Viewer


----------



## StevieRay2

3 3D SKUs announced for Zen4, gaming performance is going to be interesting on them


----------



## tabascosauz

StevieRay2 said:


> 3 3D SKUs announced for Zen4, gaming performance is going to be interesting on them


Are you sure? Isn't there like 50 minutes left until the keynote?

12- and 16-core X3D look about as expected, but the 7800X3D losing all that clock yet gaining power budget is a headscratcher

Seems from the leaked specs like they haven't changed much the physical packaging of 3D cache.


----------



## Fab7




----------



## dansi

I do not see the prices?


----------



## Fab7

No prices announced yet


----------



## Fab7

*Ryzen 7800X3D, 7900X3D and 7950X3D: very aggressive prices?*

According to the _leaker_ @All_The_Watts, the 3D V-Cache processors will cost the same as their big brothers of the current range … The latter being repositioned down in early January. The Ryzen 7 7800X3D will be offered at* 449 $*the 7900X3D at *549 $* and the 7950X3D at *799 $.* Under these conditions, these new Ryzen would become direct rivals of Core i7-13700K, i9-13900K. *Obviously, this rumor is to be taken with all the usual reservations.* Indeed, the X3D technology is particularly expensive to implement and it would be quite a surprise to find these CPUs at this price level… But after all, this is a time for wild wishes and desires…









Already prices for the Ryzen 7800X3D, 7900X3D and 7950X3D? - Overclocking.com


Rumor: The Ryzen 7800X3D, 7900X3D and 7950X3D could be launched by AMD with a particularly aggressive price.




en.overclocking.com


----------



## jootn2kx

Is it just me or is the performance bump of the 7800X3D rather underwelming compared to the 5800X3D?
We need more benchmarks for sure but it seems just like a normal generational single core performance bump.

I think i'll skip this generation and look for next year CPU upgrade


----------



## Jabdah

Im gonna skip it aswell, im fine with my 5800x3D


----------



## senzu

I have noticed, if I set the soc voltage lower than default (1.087v @ 1800 Mhz FCLK), my min fps decreases, and occasionally stutters happen. If you have stutters, try increase the soc voltage, maybe it will help.


----------



## Imprezzion

jootn2kx said:


> Is it just me or is the performance bump of the 7800X3D rather underwelming compared to the 5800X3D?
> We need more benchmarks for sure but it seems just like a normal generational single core performance bump.
> 
> I think i'll skip this generation and look for next year CPU upgrade


I agree, the cherry picked results in the presentation don't inspire a lot of confidence in the performance. However, we are getting a 7950X3D this time with full core count and PBO/CO out of the box. I might actually upgrade to this one if price isn't too bad. It's already as fast as a 13900K and with the 3D Cache it has a great chance of completely passing it. 

With DDR5 becoming this cheap, I can find 32GB 5600C36/6000 kits for like, €135-160 which is cheaper then proper DDR4 it might be worth it for me. I do hope my old EK Velocity D-RGB with the AM4 conversion kit can somehow mount properly to it and cool it..


----------



## lestatdk

It's not as much as I expected to be honest. I might just stick to my 5800x3d for a while


----------



## StevieRay2

Same, I'll upgrade when a CPU can give me 50%+ or more fps at the games I play at 1080p.


----------



## Owterspace

Would be cool if you can tune them like you can the X variant. If they are locked down like 58X3D then no thanks


----------



## jootn2kx

StevieRay2 said:


> Same, I'll upgrade when a CPU can give me 50%+ or more fps at the games I play at 1080p.


We'll see soon in reviews how the 7900x/7950x is performing with the 3D cache, My guess is +10-15% more than the 7800X3D.
Which gives us about 40% bump in best case compared to the 5800X3D (only in games where 3Dv cache matters), but then again the price...don't know mixed feelings here.

Don't think it will be enough to fully handle the RTX4090 in games like callisto protocol for example.


----------



## zixsie

jootn2kx said:


> We'll see soon in reviews how the 7900x/7950x is performing with the 3D cache, My guess is +10-15% more than the 7800X3D.
> Which gives us about 40% bump compared to the 5800X3D (only in games where 3Dv cache matters), but then again the price...don't know mixed feelings here.
> 
> Don't think it will be enough to fully handle the RTX4090 in games like callisto protocol for example.


7900x/7950x might perform worse in games, due to the dual CCD design and V-Cache stacked only on the slower CCD. This would require a ton of optimizations on the CPU scheduler, which are yet non existent (look at the current 7900x). And even more complicated work for the scheduler, is to filter and prioritize games to run on the CCD with V-cache. 
7800x3d is my bet for top gaming performance and we will know soon how does it stack against 5800x3d overall in games (except the handful list of games presented today by AMD)


----------



## Nd4spdvn

zixsie said:


> 7900x/7950x might perform worse in games, due to the dual CCD design and V-Cache stacked only on the slower CCD. This would require a ton of optimizations on the CPU scheduler, which are yet non existent (look at the current 7900x). And even more complicated work for the scheduler, is to filter and prioritize games to run on the CCD with V-cache.
> 7800x3d is my bet for top gaming performance and we will know soon how does it stack against 5800x3d overall in games (except the handful list of games presented today by AMD)


I am of the same opinion as well! I think even AMD thinks/positions 7800X3D as their best gaming CPU.


----------



## MrHoof

zixsie said:


> 7900x/7950x might perform worse in games, due to the dual CCD design and V-Cache stacked only on the slower CCD. This would require a ton of optimizations on the CPU scheduler, which are yet non existent (look at the current 7900x). And even more complicated work for the scheduler, is to filter and prioritize games to run on the CCD with V-cache.
> 7800x3d is my bet for top gaming performance and we will know soon how does it stack against 5800x3d overall in games (except the handful list of games presented today by AMD)


But then if you can disable the 2nd ccd without 3d cache on the 7950x3d your still looking at 5ghz vs 5.7ghz doubt the 7800x3d is worth it if they are still locked.
edit: nvm "*Dual-CCD SKUs will now be available, but there is a caveat in that only one of the CCDs will be stacked with the X3D SRAM die, and that die will be clocked slower than the non-stacked CCD, most likely to 5GHz, like the 7800X3D SKU.* "


----------



## AXi0M

zixsie said:


> 7900x/7950x might perform worse in games, due to the dual CCD design and V-Cache stacked only on the slower CCD. This would require a ton of optimizations on the CPU scheduler, which are yet non existent (look at the current 7900x). And even more complicated work for the scheduler, is to filter and prioritize games to run on the CCD with V-cache.
> 7800x3d is my bet for top gaming performance and we will know soon how does it stack against 5800x3d overall in games (except the handful list of games presented today by AMD)


wait the dual CCD 7000X3D will only have one with V-Cache? why? lol


----------



## zixsie

AXi0M said:


> wait the dual CCD 7000X3D will only have one with V-Cache? why? lol


Because of TDP limits and V-Cache sensitivity to voltage and thermals.
Additionally:
1. *AMD Ryzen 7000 X3D CPUs Don’t Feature Manual Overclocking, Microsoft To Deliver Optimizations In Windows 11*
2. Dual CCD design with V-cache and non V-cache CPU scheduler complications- scheduler has to detect when an app/game is using V-cache in order to prioritize the V-cache CCD and on the other hand detect when single-threaded non V-cache apps/games is started to force running on the faster CCD/non V-cache.
3. On top of that, the upcoming WIndows 11 optimizations which might take a long time.
4. And nonetheless, these dual CCD X3D CPU`s will run hot ,very hot compared to non 3D version (which are already running very hot)


----------



## chrisz5z

zixsie said:


> Because of TDP limits and V-Cache sensitivity to voltage and thermals.
> Additionally:
> 1. *AMD Ryzen 7000 X3D CPUs Don’t Feature Manual Overclocking, Microsoft To Deliver Optimizations In Windows 11*
> 2. Dual CCD design with V-cache and non V-cache CPU scheduler complications- scheduler has to detect when an app/game is using V-cache in order to prioritize the V-cache CCD and on the other hand detect when single-threaded non V-cache apps/games is started to force running on the faster CCD/non V-cache.
> 3. On top of that, the upcoming WIndows 11 optimizations which might take a long time.
> 4. And nonetheless, these dual CCD X3D CPU`s will run hot ,very hot compared to non 3D version (which are already running very hot)


"The optimizations will come through AMD's own chipset drivers which will select from a range of games that benefit from the increased V-Cache solution. This is a process that requires time to mature so it is likely that we will see improvements months into the launch of the Ryzen 7000 X3D CPUs."

So selective V-Cache...This will either go really well or turn into a clusterfuck


----------



## daninthemix2

So I've run LatencyMon. Can someone help me interpret this. What does this information mean, and what do I do with it?

Thanks


----------



## Blameless

daninthemix2 said:


> So I've run LatencyMon. Can someone help me interpret this. What does this information mean, and what do I do with it?


It means your NVIDIA driver is acting up, which is common at idle, especially if one is running "Normal" power management mode and hasn't disabled all of the driver telemetry nonsense and enabled message signaled interrupts.


----------



## Blameless

zixsie said:


> Because of TDP limits and V-Cache sensitivity to voltage and thermals.


I think it probably comes down more to costs and marketing than power or thermals.

The reduced boost clocks of v-cache parts (to keep those thermals in check) probably don't look good to ignorant consumers next to the clock of the non-X 7000 series.


----------



## StevieRay2

jootn2kx said:


> We'll see soon in reviews how the 7900x/7950x is performing with the 3D cache, My guess is +10-15% more than the 7800X3D.
> Which gives us about 40% bump in best case compared to the 5800X3D (only in games where 3Dv cache matters), but then again the price...don't know mixed feelings here.
> 
> Don't think it will be enough to fully handle the RTX4090 in games like callisto protocol for example.


AMD seemed to show off the 7800x3D has the gaming king again, I don't think 2CCD chips with 3D will be as good as 1CCD like the 7800, but guess we will see with benchmarks.


----------



## daninthemix2

Blameless said:


> It means your NVIDIA driver is acting up, which is common at idle, especially if one is running "Normal" power management mode and hasn't disabled all of the driver telemetry nonsense and enabled message signaled interrupts.


What should I set the Interrupt Policy and Priority to? I've set it to All Processors, High Priority. These are the results I get while running the Borderlands 3 benchmark. Not really sure how to improve this:


----------



## Blameless

daninthemix2 said:


> What should I set the Interrupt Policy and Priority to? I've set it to All Processors, High Priority.


That should be fine.



daninthemix2 said:


> These are the results I get while running the Borderlands 3 benchmark. Not really sure how to improve this:
> 
> View attachment 2592471
> 
> View attachment 2592472
> 
> View attachment 2592470


Probably not much you can do. That spike is likely from shader compilation/caching. Unless it's causing actual issues I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## SoaRüm

daninthemix2 said:


> What should I set the Interrupt Policy and Priority to? I've set it to All Processors, High Priority. These are the results I get while running the Borderlands 3 benchmark. Not really sure how to improve this:


You can try the interrupt affinity tool to set the interrupts for Graficcard, mouse and keyboard to different cores.


----------



## daninthemix2

I've found a new problem, or in fact it may be the same problem - Ryzen master is showing my CPU peak speed at 3400Mhz - that's the base clock isn't it? Why isn't it boosting above that?

EDIT: scratch that - it just doesn't seem to boost in games. Prime95 forces it straight above 4.2Ghz. Is this normal behaviour?


----------



## Frosted racquet

Which bios are you running? Use hwinfo and post a screenshot of the sensors after playing a game


----------



## daninthemix2

This is what's annoying - look at the benchmark stats for Watch Dogs Legion. Every single frametime drop is caused by the CPU.


----------



## Frosted racquet

daninthemix2 said:


> This is what's annoying - look at the benchmark stats for Watch Dogs Legion. Every single frametime drop is caused by the CPU.





Frosted racquet said:


> Which bios are you running? Use hwinfo and post a screenshot of the sensors after playing a game


?


----------



## daninthemix2

Frosted racquet said:


> ?


2806 - the latest for my B550-F.

Which data? There's too much to fit...here's some after running the WDL benchmark:


----------



## Frosted racquet

Clocks look normal


----------



## daninthemix2

Frosted racquet said:


> Clocks look normal


So everything's fine?

Maybe it's just incredibly rare for a game engine to be able to sustain 4k120 without any drops. I don't know.


----------



## Frosted racquet

It could be any number of software related issues, Windows, drivers or game engine

For starters I would uninstall any unnecessary programs, like Ryzen Master, RGB stuff etc


----------



## mtbiker033

daninthemix2 said:


> I've found a new problem, or in fact it may be the same problem - Ryzen master is showing my CPU peak speed at 3400Mhz - that's the base clock isn't it? Why isn't it boosting above that?
> 
> EDIT: scratch that - it just doesn't seem to boost in games. Prime95 forces it straight above 4.2Ghz. Is this normal behaviour?


No it should be boosting in games also, depending on the game they should all be at max boost but can fluctuate a little


----------



## Imprezzion

Some games.for me on the B550-A 2806 BIOS hang around 42xx-43xx but that's more because there's hardly any load. Division 2 which is very CPU intensive just sits flat at 4450 while for example Black Desert is more like 4225.


----------



## lunatik

daninthemix2 said:


> So everything's fine?
> 
> Maybe it's just incredibly rare for a game engine to be able to sustain 4k120 without any drops. I don't know.


There is definetely room for improvement.

Use pbo for undervolt.

Fix your drivers and debloat windows from all the crap etc..

My win11 ssd for gaming looks like this (incomplete tho)


----------



## thornygravy

lunatik said:


> Fix your drivers and debloat windows from all the crap etc..


just curious, are you talking about manual debloating (as in the limited amount you can do within the gui) or do you use a certain tool?


----------



## Frosted racquet

lunatik said:


> My win11 ssd for gaming looks like this (incomplete tho)


That version of LatencyMon is old and incompatible with Win11


----------



## lunatik

Frosted racquet said:


> That version of LatencyMon is old and incompatible with Win11


What version does it have to be then?

I don't use it, it was just smth i had in my files somewhere..

I was just trying to imply there are always ways to remove stutters etc


----------



## Frosted racquet

lunatik said:


> What version does it have to be then?


That's the correct version, 7.20 is the latest.

Can you run it for 10-15 min in the background while gaming and post the results?


----------



## Blameless

daninthemix2 said:


> it just doesn't seem to boost in games. Prime95 forces it straight above 4.2Ghz. Is this normal behaviour?


Not boosting in games is definitely not normal, unless CPU load is so low it doesn't need to.



daninthemix2 said:


> 2806 - the latest for my B550-F.
> 
> Which data? There's too much to fit...here's some after running the WDL benchmark:
> 
> View attachment 2592593


A global frequency limit below 4450 is unusual for anything less than a very heavy load. Temps are normal and you aren't hitting any limiters.

Do you have snapshot polling enabled in HWiNFO?

What power profile?


----------



## lunatik

Frosted racquet said:


> That's the correct version, 7.20 is the latest.
> 
> Can you run it for 10-15 min in the background while gaming and post the results?


This was done in warzone 2 quads match and as i said before it's not near final/completed (and most likely will not complete it anyway since i will be giving all parts to friends when next gen 3d arrives)

I've only used win 11 for a few days, and gave 1 set of ram to a friend already.


----------



## Frosted racquet

Those are some impressive readings


----------



## chrisz5z

lunatik said:


> This was done in warzone 2 quads match and as i said before it's not near final/completed (and most likely will not complete it anyway since i will be giving all parts to friends when next gen 3d arrives)
> 
> I've only used win 11 for a few days, and gave 1 set of ram to a friend already.
> 
> View attachment 2592758


What exactly did you do to get low latency? Is there a guide somewhere? 

I'm currently getting random spikes above 2000 from ACPI.sys


----------



## lunatik

chrisz5z said:


> What exactly did you do to get low latency? Is there a guide somewhere?
> 
> I'm currently getting random spikes above 2000 from ACPI.sys


I've used a mix of different debloat scripts and guides from github, youtube, forums etc.

I don't want to recommend anything specific since you can mess up your whole OS quite easily with all the changed registry's, disabled services..(I've had to reinstall windows many times)

I use 2 ssd's and 1 nvme for 3 different windows OS:

1st is with all the files and stuff for backup.

2nd is for testing/experimenting all those guides and "snake oil" stuff

3rd is for gaming with everything added what works for my needs.

I'll add 1 link as a starting point, so anyone can learn/experiment on their own:






Calypto's Latency Guide







docs.google.com


----------



## FriendlySeacow

tbob22 said:


> A bit more..
> 
> View attachment 2587847


Sorry to resurrect this post - the performance looks great. I may have missed it if you said it explicitly, but can the MSI B450i set negative offsets on the 5800x3d in BIOS? I'm thinking of using a MSI MSI b450i gaming plus max with a 5800x3d and would rather avoid the software solution of PBO2 Tuner. Thanks!


----------



## Netherwind

Sorry for a stupid question but does the X570 Aorus Elite support CO in BIOS? I looked for 15 minutes without any luck.
Strange thing since I'm almost positive I saw it on first boot.


----------



## Kamukix

daninthemix said:


> *Interestingly I've managed to locate a reproducible stutter in the Cyberpunk 2077 benchmark *- as the camera exits the bar and goes around the corner there's a stutter at the same moment every time I run the benchmark. Doesn't matter what the frame-rate is, I can change DLSS settings and go from 60 to 120 fps, the same stutter seems to happen at that exact point.


I literally joined the forum just to thank you for helping me confirm I'm not crazy or chasing a legit issue haha. I have noticed the exact same stutter regardless of settings, performance, or hardware. I've run that benchmark with my 5800x and 3080 when I had it, it's the same with the 5800x3D and my 4090, it happens at the same point every single time I run the benchmark and it's exactly where you describe it happening for you.

I found it soooo strange that no one else out there had a post anywhere I could find on Google about it until I stumbled across your post today while looking around about something completely different haha. Thanks, seems the stutter is just part of the benchmark lol.


----------



## daninthemix2

Kamukix said:


> I literally joined the forum just to thank you for helping me confirm I'm not crazy or chasing a legit issue haha. I have noticed the exact same stutter regardless of settings, performance, or hardware. I've run that benchmark with my 5800x and 3080 when I had it, it's the same with the 5800x3D and my 4090, it happens at the same point every single time I run the benchmark and it's exactly where you describe it happening for you.
> 
> I found it soooo strange that no one else out there had a post anywhere I could find on Google about it until I stumbled across your post today while looking around about something completely different haha. Thanks, seems the stutter is just part of the benchmark lol.


Ha ha, no worries.

I also found that the Far Cry 6 benchmarks has stutters in the exact same place every time you run it. In that case however, the severity of the stutter depends on your frame-rate. If your average fps is around 120, you get a large frame drop (down to 100ish). If you lock at 60, the drop is much milder (down to 57).


----------



## chrisz5z

lunatik said:


> I've used a mix of different debloat scripts and guides from github, youtube, forums etc.
> 
> I don't want to recommend anything specific since you can mess up your whole OS quite easily with all the changed registry's, disabled services..(I've had to reinstall windows many times)
> 
> I use 2 ssd's and 1 nvme for 3 different windows OS:
> 
> 1st is with all the files and stuff for backup.
> 
> 2nd is for testing/experimenting all those guides and "snake oil" stuff
> 
> 3rd is for gaming with everything added what works for my needs.
> 
> I'll add 1 link as a starting point, so anyone can learn/experiment on their own:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Calypto's Latency Guide
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docs.google.com


Good read. I tried many of the things in the guide, didn't fix my issue but did lead me in the right direction.

What fixed my latency issue with ACPI.sys is tracking it down & locking it to cores 4/5.


----------



## Globespy

I have used the PBO2 Tuner tool with my 5800X3D for some time, with the additional trigger for when my PC sleeps and wakes to once again apply the CO.
Had to do a fresh install of Win 11 today and went through the same process as before to add to Task Scheduler (I first imported the old task but that didn't work so created from scratch).
I have the PBO2 Tuner program in C:/Debug and Task Scheduler is pointed to that - over the course of today I have tried moving the file to multiple locations just in case the C:/Debug was not suitable and causing the arguments to fail.
I have the scheduled task running in 'System' however have tried using my actual admin account/user account etc.

The scheduled task runs, however it does not apply the -30 offset, so essentially all it does is open the PBO2 Tuner.exe file, which I can see from Task Manager.
My schedules task looks 100% like the guide, to the letter, checked and checked for now hours on end.

I'm wondering if there's something I need to change in one of the files within that Debug folder that has the PBO2 Tuner.exe file?
I can manually open the exe and put -30 in ever box and apply, and sure enough everything works as it should (HWInfo64 to monitor).
I am at a complete and utter loss as to why this simply refuses to add the arguments when it worked just fine in the past?
Thanks for all and any help, this has literally consumer my entire day - attaching screenshots of how I have it setup:


----------



## daninthemix2

Still getting nvlddmkm.sys latency spikes of ~3000 microseconds. I'm going to mess about with MSI affinity, but one question - when pinning to a core, how do I know whether that core is physical, as opposed to SMT / logical ?


----------



## Imprezzion

I found the limitations for this CPU unfortunately. When running a game, Cyberpunk or Tiny Tina's Wonderland for example, have Chrome open with 40 tabs, have Discord open while streaming to Discord at 1080p60, and frametimes go byebye and it starts to stutter and hang for a second when turning around fast and such in game. GPU usage drops hard and it really looks like CPU spikes like it isn't fast enough / not enough cores. 

I never had that problem on the 11900K or 5900X. I might even buy a cheap used 5950X just to test it out.


----------



## AXi0M

Imprezzion said:


> I found the limitations for this CPU unfortunately. When running a game, Cyberpunk or Tiny Tina's Wonderland for example, have Chrome open with 40 tabs, have Discord open while streaming to Discord at 1080p60, and frametimes go byebye and it starts to stutter and hang for a second when turning around fast and such in game. GPU usage drops hard and it really looks like CPU spikes like it isn't fast enough / not enough cores.
> 
> I never had that problem on the 11900K or 5900X. I might even buy a cheap used 5950X just to test it out.


Same, if i run y-cruncher while playing a game, i get worse fps...weird  /s


----------



## Imprezzion

AXi0M said:


> Same, if i run y-cruncher while playing a game, i get worse fps...weird  /s


Haha I meant more like a punt of threads limitation. The CPU is perfectly capable of handling it and still gets 190FPS in Tiny Tina but there's stuttering and hangs when fast moving and such. A CPU with more threads didn't have that issue so. Maybe, for my use case, as I like to multitask and run a bunch of stuff while gaming, a X3D just has too little cores or frequency.


----------



## zixsie

Imprezzion said:


> I found the limitations for this CPU unfortunately. When running a game, Cyberpunk or Tiny Tina's Wonderland for example, have Chrome open with 40 tabs, have Discord open while streaming to Discord at 1080p60, and frametimes go byebye and it starts to stutter and hang for a second when turning around fast and such in game. GPU usage drops hard and it really looks like CPU spikes like it isn't fast enough / not enough cores.
> 
> I never had that problem on the 11900K or 5900X. I might even buy a cheap used 5950X just to test it out.


For your use case, you could try with adjusting the CPPC/CPPC Preferred cores through BIOS. Try to enable/disable both and test if there is a difference.


----------



## Frosted racquet

For those that noticed a big temperature drop with lowering 1P8/VDD18 voltage, which tests did you run for before/after or it doesn't matter?


----------



## MurderGang420

mike7877 said:


> It seems my motherboard lowers the CPU voltage much further than the PBO2 tuner app. Setting -30 in the middle of a torture test causes a 0.06V increase from 1.18-1.20 to 1.24-1.26. Power consumption goes way up, too.
> 
> Before I tried PBO2 (or even knew it existed - if I did I probably wouldnt've have been working so long to make my 5800X3D faster and more efficient), I came across a setting in the BIOS of my motherboard called Kombo Strike. You can turn it (Off), (1), (2), or (3).
> 
> Kombo Strike is to increase performance. 3 increases it the most. You'd have to be reeaallll stupid to pick 1 or 2 lol
> 
> Performance improved! Number 3 gave 4% higher multithreaded scores.
> 
> I wanted more than 4% though, so I started thinking. Loadline calibration came to mind, but first I needed to take some accurate baseline measurements of Kombo Strike 3 before trying it. I decided on AIDA64's stability test for CPU stress. "CPU" and "FPU" tests, results of power and voltage taken from the regulator would be used - averaged over 60 seconds for accuracy.
> 
> Results:
> 
> 44.65W and 1.189V during "CPU". This is the voltage to the cores of the CPU. Power is only consumption of cores. If you're curious, total chip power was 65W.
> 
> Loadline levels (8 is baseline)
> 
> 8) 44.65W and 1.189V
> 6) oops and 1.213V
> 3) 46.9W and 1.221V
> 1) 47.9W and 1.226V
> 
> 1.226V - 1.189V is 0.037V
> 
> 0.037V is the gain from enabling Loadline calibration.
> 
> AMD was kind enough to allow negative CPU voltage offsets, so to nullify LLC 1, I set a -0.0375V offset
> 
> Booted back into Windows (still LLC 1), but instead of less volts there were more! I ran the test, 60 seconds average etc. and the voltage was 1.238V!
> 0.015V _higher_
> Power consumption was what you'd expect, about 1.5W higher than 47.9
> 
> I went back into the BIOS, got rid of the -0.375V offset, and ran the test again and the voltage returned to expected for LLC 1 + (3):
> 1.225V, 48.2W
> 
> I also did the FPU simultaneously. Results:
> 
> 8) 72.4W and 1.155V
> 6) 76.4W and 1.179V
> 3) 79.7W and 1.195V
> 1) 81.8W and 1.207V
> 
> Whole chip: 95w, 100.5, 102.75, 104.25
> 
> I also measured performance with Performance Test and here are the results:
> 
> Integer:
> 8) 93395
> 6) 93441
> 3) 92558
> 1) 92958/93123
> 
> FP:
> 8) 52040
> 6) 52131
> 3) 52041
> 1) 52147
> 
> Each score is the best of 4, which I've found keeps results correct enough (accurate to a small fraction of a percent).
> 
> Even though power varied by 7.3% and 13%, performance only varied by 0.9% and 0.02%.
> 
> 
> Idle voltages don't vary much and neither does power consumption
> 
> Are my voltages exceptionally good, or is PBO2 just clashing with my system for reasons unknown?


Can u help me


----------



## Netherwind

Globespy said:


> I have used the PBO2 Tuner tool with my 5800X3D for some time, with the additional trigger for when my PC sleeps and wakes to once again apply the CO.
> Had to do a fresh install of Win 11 today and went through the same process as before to add to Task Scheduler (I first imported the old task but that didn't work so created from scratch).
> I have the PBO2 Tuner program in C:/Debug and Task Scheduler is pointed to that - over the course of today I have tried moving the file to multiple locations just in case the C:/Debug was not suitable and causing the arguments to fail.
> I have the scheduled task running in 'System' however have tried using my actual admin account/user account etc.
> 
> The scheduled task runs, however it does not apply the -30 offset, so essentially all it does is open the PBO2 Tuner.exe file, which I can see from Task Manager.
> My schedules task looks 100% like the guide, to the letter, checked and checked for now hours on end.
> 
> I'm wondering if there's something I need to change in one of the files within that Debug folder that has the PBO2 Tuner.exe file?
> I can manually open the exe and put -30 in ever box and apply, and sure enough everything works as it should (HWInfo64 to monitor).
> I am at a complete and utter loss as to why this simply refuses to add the arguments when it worked just fine in the past?
> Thanks for all and any help, this has literally consumer my entire day - attaching screenshots of how I have it setup:
> View attachment 2592875
> 
> View attachment 2592876
> 
> View attachment 2592877
> 
> View attachment 2592878
> 
> View attachment 2592879
> 
> View attachment 2592880
> 
> View attachment 2592881
> 
> View attachment 2592882
> 
> View attachment 2592883


I've got the exact same settings as you and it doesn't work for me either. The only difference is that I don't have Wake from sleep event as I don't use Hibernate/Sleep.
After I read your post I launched PBO2 Tuner and saw that all values were 0. When I set them to -30 I started seeing increased max boost in HWiNFO so, that's a confirmation that the Task doesn't work.


----------



## Frosted racquet

@Globespy @Netherwind Try putting "0 0 0 0" after your CO values (with a space of course) in the arguments field.


----------



## dns4

Globespy said:


> I have used the PBO2 Tuner tool with my 5800X3D for some time, with the additional trigger for when my PC sleeps and wakes to once again apply the CO.
> Had to do a fresh install of Win 11 today and went through the same process as before to add to Task Scheduler (I first imported the old task but that didn't work so created from scratch).
> I have the PBO2 Tuner program in C:/Debug and Task Scheduler is pointed to that - over the course of today I have tried moving the file to multiple locations just in case the C:/Debug was not suitable and causing the arguments to fail.
> I have the scheduled task running in 'System' however have tried using my actual admin account/user account etc.
> 
> The scheduled task runs, however it does not apply the -30 offset, so essentially all it does is open the PBO2 Tuner.exe file, which I can see from Task Manager.
> My schedules task looks 100% like the guide, to the letter, checked and checked for now hours on end.
> 
> I'm wondering if there's something I need to change in one of the files within that Debug folder that has the PBO2 Tuner.exe file?
> I can manually open the exe and put -30 in ever box and apply, and sure enough everything works as it should (HWInfo64 to monitor).
> I am at a complete and utter loss as to why this simply refuses to add the arguments when it worked just fine in the past?
> Thanks for all and any help, this has literally consumer my entire day - attaching screenshots of how I have it setup:
> View attachment 2592875
> 
> View attachment 2592876
> 
> View attachment 2592877
> 
> View attachment 2592878
> 
> View attachment 2592879
> 
> View attachment 2592880
> 
> View attachment 2592881
> 
> View attachment 2592882
> 
> View attachment 2592883


Try these 3 triggers, delete "on an event" and leave the rest as you have.


----------



## Netherwind

Frosted racquet said:


> @Globespy @Netherwind Try putting "0 0 0 0" after your CO values (with a space of course) in the arguments field.


You mean writing 8 x "-30" and 4 x "0"? Like below?


----------



## Frosted racquet

Netherwind said:


> You mean writing 8 x "-30" and 4 x "0"? Like below?


Yes


----------



## Axon14

Guys, I've got a 5800x3d with an ASUS Dark Hero and 3200 MHZ CL18 ram. When I'm loading certain image heavy webpages - youtube most specifically - the page "hangs" for a second with blank boxes before loading the whole page. It's not bad, but it feels much less snappy than the 12700k system I recently built. Maybe it's just my nvme drive or internet settings? 

Games, discord, everything else is snappy and perform perfectly.


----------



## OCmember

@Axon14 sounds like networking/internet


----------



## MrHoof

OCmember said:


> @Axon14 sounds like networking/internet


Its always dns 😆 nah but that one sound like a dns problem.


----------



## Axon14

Yeah - i just flushed DNS. I might just format it. I don't have much on this system right now, it wouldn't be a lot of work. Plus I can try out this 7900XTX I've got sitting here


----------



## chrisz5z

Axon14 said:


> Yeah - i just flushed DNS. I might just format it. I don't have much on this system right now, it wouldn't be a lot of work. Plus I can try out this 7900XTX I've got sitting here


changing dns servers might help


----------



## WereCat

I've hit 6013 points without BenchMate once but didn't took a screenshot. Unfortunately I cannot get even close to 6010 right now for some reason even if I run tighter timings.

I'll give R23 a go later.

This is cooled by Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 (without the offset bracket, I don't have it and I'm too lazy to ask for it).

Also thx to everybody in the Crosshair VIII Hero section that helped me with some tuning, before I was hitting around 5860 points.

EDIT:
I've done one dirty run of R23 but I'll not give up until I break 15500 points


----------



## chrisz5z

WereCat said:


> View attachment 2593106
> 
> 
> I've hit 6013 points without BenchMate once but didn't took a screenshot. Unfortunately I cannot get even close to 6010 right now for some reason even if I run tighter timings.
> 
> I'll give R23 a go later.
> 
> This is cooled by Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 (without the offset bracket, I don't have it and I'm too lazy to ask for it).
> 
> Also thx to everybody in the Crosshair VIII Hero section that helped me with some tuning, before I was hitting around 5860 points.
> 
> EDIT:
> I've done one dirty run of R23 but I'll not give up until I break 15500 points
> 
> View attachment 2593107


So what exactly did you tune to increase your score?


----------



## WereCat

chrisz5z said:


> So what exactly did you tune to increase your score?


disable TSME, L1 and L2 Stream Hardware Prefetcher, tune memory, CO offset set to 30, lower SOC and VDDP, VDDG voltages as low as possible for benchmarking purposes (the daily stable settings score around 1% to 2% lower). I still got some more tuning to do as there are some things I haven't tried.


----------



## dns4

WereCat said:


> disable TSME, L1 and L2 Stream Hardware Prefetcher


Just by disabling TSME, L1 and L2 Stream Hardware Prefetcher I went from 15115 to 15358. Thanks!


----------



## Frosted racquet

Just because it scores better in CB23 with those settings doesn't mean you won't loose performance in other applications


----------



## WereCat

Frosted racquet said:


> Just because it scores better in CB23 with those settings doesn't mean you won't loose performance in other applications


Yes, as I already stated in the previous thread I can see consistent 4GFlop drop in Linpack Extreme 8GB benchmark. This however boosts CB R20 and R23 score nicely and also Time Spy CPU score and FPS in some games. It really depends on what you do.
For large data sets the L1 and L2 stream HW prefetcher seems to work a lot better when enabled.

TSME however seems to be useless for most people to keep it enabled. If I understand it correctly it's for when you run multiple VMs and you don't want the VMs to access each others memory or some such... I'm not really sure about the exact technicalities but it's free performance when you have it disabled as you don't have to deal with overhead on memory encryption.



dns4 said:


> Just by disabling TSME, L1 and L2 Stream Hardware Prefetcher I went from 15115 to 15358. Thanks!


You're welcome but don't thank me but @Kelutrel since he is the one who suggested this to me. I was aware of L1 and L2 streams (and I had them enabled on 3900X) but never heard of TSME or even dabbled with it and with combination with L1 and L2 it does boots CB score nicely.


----------



## frankie90

I went ahead and disabled TSME and HW Prefetchers. I gained about 200 points in R23 which I was expecting, but I also gained about 100 points in TimeSpy, which I was not.

Now to test real world performance in game.


----------



## King4x4

5800x3d on the way. Upgrading from a 5900x.

Was waiting for the 7800x3d but the lack of good numbers and some fast math work made me go for the easy upgrade.

Costs in my country for Mobo+32gb CL30 600mhz Ram+Estimated cpu cost of $450 is around $1100

Cost of the 5800x3d and plug and play = $423

Even if it was 10% difference it won't be worth it when it's the same costs as a 4080.

Gonna be joining the 5800x3d+2080ti crowd


----------



## ALDIfreak

Globespy said:


> I have used the PBO2 Tuner tool with my 5800X3D for some time, with the additional trigger for when my PC sleeps and wakes to once again apply the CO.
> Had to do a fresh install of Win 11 today and went through the same process as before to add to Task Scheduler (I first imported the old task but that didn't work so created from scratch).
> I have the PBO2 Tuner program in C:/Debug and Task Scheduler is pointed to that - over the course of today I have tried moving the file to multiple locations just in case the C:/Debug was not suitable and causing the arguments to fail.
> I have the scheduled task running in 'System' however have tried using my actual admin account/user account etc.
> 
> The scheduled task runs, however it does not apply the -30 offset, so essentially all it does is open the PBO2 Tuner.exe file, which I can see from Task Manager.
> My schedules task looks 100% like the guide, to the letter, checked and checked for now hours on end.
> 
> I'm wondering if there's something I need to change in one of the files within that Debug folder that has the PBO2 Tuner.exe file?
> I can manually open the exe and put -30 in ever box and apply, and sure enough everything works as it should (HWInfo64 to monitor).
> I am at a complete and utter loss as to why this simply refuses to add the arguments when it worked just fine in the past?
> Thanks for all and any help, this has literally consumer my entire day - attaching screenshots of how I have it setup:
> View attachment 2592875
> 
> View attachment 2592876
> 
> View attachment 2592877
> 
> View attachment 2592878
> 
> View attachment 2592879
> 
> View attachment 2592880
> 
> View attachment 2592881
> 
> View attachment 2592882
> 
> View attachment 2592883


got the exact same problem...autorun does not work and got identical settings like you 
hope someone can help


----------



## Frosted racquet

ALDIfreak said:


> got the exact same problem...autorun does not work and got identical settings like you
> hope someone can help











5800X3D Owners


Sorry for a stupid question but does the X570 Aorus Elite support CO in BIOS? I looked for 15 minutes without any luck. Strange thing since I'm almost positive I saw it on first boot.




www.overclock.net


----------



## mtbiker033

King4x4 said:


> 5800x3d on the way. Upgrading from a 5900x.
> 
> Was waiting for the 7800x3d but the lack of good numbers and some fast math work made me go for the easy upgrade.
> 
> Costs in my country for Mobo+32gb CL30 600mhz Ram+Estimated cpu cost of $450 is around $1100
> 
> Cost of the 5800x3d and plug and play = $423
> 
> Even if it was 10% difference it won't be worth it when it's the same costs as a 4080.
> 
> Gonna be joining the 5800x3d+2080ti crowd


this is budget gamers dream set up!


----------



## chrisz5z

WereCat said:


> Yes, as I already stated in the previous thread I can see consistent 4GFlop drop in Linpack Extreme 8GB benchmark. This however boosts CB R20 and R23 score nicely and also Time Spy CPU score and FPS in some games. It really depends on what you do.
> For large data sets the L1 and L2 stream HW prefetcher seems to work a lot better when enabled.
> 
> TSME however seems to be useless for most people to keep it enabled. If I understand it correctly it's for when you run multiple VMs and you don't want the VMs to access each others memory or some such... I'm not really sure about the exact technicalities but it's free performance when you have it disabled as you don't have to deal with overhead on memory encryption.
> 
> 
> You're welcome but don't thank me but @Kelutrel since he is the one who suggested this to me. I was aware of L1 and L2 streams (and I had them enabled on 3900X) but never heard of TSME or even dabbled with it and with combination with L1 and L2 it does boots CB score nicely.


disabled TSME & L1/L2 HW Prefetchers:

Increased R23 by a couple hundred points









decreased Y-Cruncher by 0.3s









what's more interesting to me is the clocks were more consistent during testing


----------



## loki_toki

daninthemix2 said:


> Still getting nvlddmkm.sys latency spikes of ~3000 microseconds. I'm going to mess about with MSI affinity, but one question - when pinning to a core, how do I know whether that core is physical, as opposed to SMT / logical ?


interested as well.
as far as i know, there's no real or logic core, you can't set affinity to "real cores", only smt on or off. (as i said i can be totally wrong, hope someone with more knowledge can clarify this)
but then there's process lasso with its "disable smt" option where it basically set affinity to even cores and disable odd ones.


----------



## Blameless

WereCat said:


> TSME however seems to be useless for most people to keep it enabled. If I understand it correctly it's for when you run multiple VMs and you don't want the VMs to access each others memory or some such...


It encrypts the contents of memory to make it resistant to all kinds of software (malware reading and reporting memory contents) _or_ hardware (e.g. someone physically freezing and stealing your RAM to read the contents later) probing. Isolating VM's is just one potential use case.

I generally have it disabled; it's security/performance trade-offs aren't favorable for me (or most of us).



ALDIfreak said:


> got the exact same problem...autorun does not work and got identical settings like you
> hope someone can help


Are you using the command line version of the program? The original won't apply curves this way.


----------



## OCmember

@Blameless What's the difference between Auto, and, Enabled, with TSME? On my X570 Xtreme board the description says: AddrTweakEn = 1; ForceEncrEn = 1; DataEncrEn = 0



https://developer.amd.com/wordpress/media/2013/12/AMD_Memory_Encryption_Whitepaper_v7-Public.pdf


----------



## Blameless

daninthemix2 said:


> Still getting nvlddmkm.sys latency spikes of ~3000 microseconds.


Doing what?

If you're loading the video driver, some spikes are inevitable, especially during things like shader compilation/caching.



daninthemix2 said:


> I'm going to mess about with MSI affinity, but one question - when pinning to a core, how do I know whether that core is physical, as opposed to SMT / logical ?


Pinning interrupts to specific cores really should not be required.

Also, as loki_toki hints at, the there is no physical/logical dichotomy. Core 0 and 1 are both logical and both run on the first physical core.



OCmember said:


> @Blameless What's the difference between Auto, and, Enabled, with TSME? On my X570 Xtreme board the description says: AddrTweakEn = 1; ForceEncrEn = 1; DataEncrEn = 0
> 
> 
> 
> https://developer.amd.com/wordpress/media/2013/12/AMD_Memory_Encryption_Whitepaper_v7-Public.pdf


I'm not sure what auto defaults to. I've been disabling it manually, ether in the UEFI setup, or via NVRAM dumps/edits, for quite some time. I'm pretty sure my X570 Elite has the option to disable TSME somewhere in the UEFI setup, so the Xtreme should as well.

Anyway, even when TSME is disabled in firmware, SME in AIDA64's CPUID page still reports "Supported" for SME, but not "Supported, Enabled".


----------



## xis123

Frosted racquet said:


> VDD18


No idea if there's a improvement to temps - I lowered the VDD18 from 1.8v to 1.68v and haven't run into any problems. Free undervolt, less energy I guess! Cheers for the tip.


----------



## chrisz5z

Some unscientific MW2 data pertaining to disabling TSME & L1/L2 Prefetchers

TSME=Enabled L1/L2=Enabled









TSME=Disabled, L1/L2=Enabled









TSME=Disabled, L1/L2=Disabled


----------



## xis123

Frosted racquet said:


> For those that noticed a big temperature drop with lowering 1P8/VDD18 voltage, which tests did you run for before/after or it doesn't matter?


Back on this topic - it seems reducing VDD18 to 1.6v causes a big difference in Tctl/Tdie and temps in each core.. they were more uniform when set to 1.8v. Something to consider.. unsure though..


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## Taraquin

xis123 said:


> No idea if there's a improvement to temps - I lowered the VDD18 from 1.8v to 1.68v and haven't run into any problems. Free undervolt, less energy I guess! Cheers for the tip.


VDD18 only seems important if aiming for over 3800 ramspeed atleast on my setup. It increases temps quite a bit if you go over 1.8v during load on my 5600X.


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## Taraquin

xis123 said:


> Back on this topic - it seems reducing VDD18 to 1.6v causes a big difference in Tctl/Tdie and temps in each core.. they were more uniform when set to 1.8v. Something to consider.. unsure though..


As long as max temp is down I don't consider this a problem


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## xis123

Taraquin said:


> As long as max temp is down I don't consider this a problem


Yep tested it again, my bad jumped the gun on this one - setting at 1.6v causes no trouble than it being at 1.8v.. so just gonna leave it! 

Changed 1P8 voltage to 1.6v from 1.8v
Changed VDD18 to 1.6v from 1.8v
VCore Offset -0.031v
Core Optimizer -30 all cores
PPT/TDC/EDC 90/65/90
Scoring ~14650 with Cinebench R23 running on High Priority with nothing else in the background.

Pretty happy with that, doesn't go past 74'c in Cinebench R23 and cooled by a NH-D15 in a NZXT H710i (bad airflow) in a 29'c room.


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