# New build. Intel VS AMD ?



## blodflekk

Reason for build:
My current rig appears to have reached the end of the line. Its a 6850K (broadwell-e) on a rampage V edition 10. I've been having issues with my USB ports dropping out. Happens under OC and stock. Step one, I bought a USB hub, tried it in all my ports to see if I had any remaining good ports, seems like I don't. Then went and got a PCI-E USB controller and threw that in and still the same issues occur. Figure mobo or CPU is borked. 

I'm fortunate to have access to a lot of high end stuff in my country without shortages being an issue. so I have been considering my two options : 
Intel 10900K + Maximus 13 apex + samsung Bdie 4000mhz+

or 

Ryzen 5950X + crosshair 8 dark hero + 3600 CL14 

I'm a gamer mostly, I love OC, but not XOC, I play at 3440+1440 and do some work in photoshop (web dev)


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## kairi_zeroblade

Current Hardware platforms for both Companies are nearing a dead end and DDR5 is on its way already, if you can't live without buying/needing a PC now I suggest you go the economical route, if you are already accepting the dead end platforms then buy what you think suits your needs most..for your mentioned purpose either of those 2 are already best to serve it well..All I am trying to say is if you can still manage to hold on or wait..

As for Overclocking, I can't really say which is easier/better as I have been with both Intel and AMD, personally, Intel already has given the 5ghz exclusive to all of its chips, and that's a no-brainer already to hit, AMD however has a very tricky (a tad difficult) way to squeeze every ounce of performance on its platform and you might be as well plagued with the USB Dropouts and WHEA issues along with it..(not discouraging you, but its a current mess everyone/everybody has been into)


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## munternet

blodflekk said:


> Reason for build:
> My current rig appears to have reached the end of the line. Its a 6850K (broadwell-e) on a rampage V edition 10. I've been having issues with my USB ports dropping out. Happens under OC and stock. Step one, I bought a USB hub, tried it in all my ports to see if I had any remaining good ports, seems like I don't. Then went and got a PCI-E USB controller and threw that in and still the same issues occur. Figure mobo or CPU is borked.
> 
> I'm fortunate to have access to a lot of high end stuff in my country without shortages being an issue. so I have been considering my two options :
> Intel 10900K + Maximus 13 apex + samsung Bdie 4000mhz+
> 
> or
> 
> Ryzen 5950X + crosshair 8 dark hero + 3600 CL14
> 
> I'm a gamer mostly, I love OC, but not XOC, I play at 3440+1440 and do some work in photoshop (web dev)


I play BFV mostly 3440x1440 and get much better frames with the AMD
I have an Apex XII and 10900k 5.2GHz ram 2x16 32GB @ 4600c16 water cooled and a
Crosshair VIII Hero wifi 5950x PBO Oclock and ram 2x16 32GB 3800c16 water cooled
I prefer the AMD setup for gaming AND using the PC for general stuff
There are probably a few little things to sort out with the AMD setup to get it gaming smooth like the Realtek driver but not much really
To be fair the 10900k might have been better for gaming with a lower ram overclock and it is still a good machine nonetheless


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## Insidious Supra

I'd give it time. Both companies should have some new cpu's out within a year that will blow the lid off anything out right now.


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## kairi_zeroblade

munternet said:


> Crosshair XIII Hero wifi 5950x PBO Oclock and ram 2x16 32GB 3800c16 water cooled


Crosshair XIII?? we're just currently at Crosshair VIII as far as the internet and Google is concerned..even a Crosshair IX is out of sight..


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## munternet

kairi_zeroblade said:


> Crosshair XIII?? we're just currently at Crosshair VIII as far as the internet and Google is concerned..even a Crosshair IX is out of sight..


Oooops
Edited


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## blodflekk

I do know DDR5 is just around the corner, I'm also expecting prices and particularly price vs performance to be terrible for all the early stuff and considering the age of the current system anything would be a huge upgrade. Is upgrade path really something that matters in a situation like mine ?


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## shilka

blodflekk said:


> I do know DDR5 is just around the corner, I'm also expecting prices and particularly price vs performance to be terrible for all the early stuff and considering the age of the current system anything would be a huge upgrade. Is upgrade path really something that matters in a situation like mine ?


If you need a new PC now build a new PC now because if you wait around for the next big thing you can keep waiting forever and never get anything done
As for DDR5 thats going to be worse to begin with and its really amazing that almost nobody ever learned or remember anything from when DDR3 and DDR4 came out

With DDR3 it was so bad and the cost was so high that i built an X48 DDR2 system instead and to this day i consider that system the best i have ever had
Switched to X58 two years later after DDR3 came down in price and got much better

Edit: also by the time you will need to replace whatever you buy now that too will have become outdated so the argument that says you should wait for a new platform with new RAM is not really an argument because you will have exactly the same problem the next time you upgrade if there is more than 3-4 years between upgrades

Again there is always something new on the way and you can keep waiting untill the end of time and will never get anything done
If you need something now buy something now and dont look back it does not matter if you cant upgrade what you buy because 5+ years later the next new big thing wont be upgradeable either so thats a rather pointless argument to make

Any AMD or Intel you can get today that uses DDR4 is going to be far more mature and stable than the first DDR5 system are going to be and its going to be cheaper too
Dont touch anything that uses DDR5 for at least the first year its going to be full of problems and be worse as well as cost more

By the way do you have any plans to sell the 6850K and maybe the motherboard i know someone that is looking for a CPU to replace a 5820K


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## Lass3

Wait for next gen, which both Intel and AMD does late this year or early next


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## blodflekk

shilka said:


> If you need a new PC now build a new PC now because if you wait around for the next big thing you can keep waiting forever and never get anything done
> As for DDR5 thats going to be worse to begin with and its really amazing that almost nobody ever learned or remember anything from when DDR3 and DDR4 came out
> 
> With DDR3 it was so bad and the cost was so high that i built an X48 DDR2 system instead and to this day i consider that system the best i have ever had
> Switched to X58 two years later after DDR3 came down in price and got much better
> 
> Edit: also by the time you will need to replace whatever you buy now that too will have become outdated so the argument that says you should wait for a new platform with new RAM is not really an argument because you will have exactly the same problem the next time you upgrade if there is more than 3-4 years between upgrades
> 
> Again there is always something new on the way and you can keep waiting untill the end of time and will never get anything done
> If you need something now buy something now and dont look back it does not matter if you cant upgrade what you buy because 5+ years later the next new big thing wont be upgradeable either so thats a rather pointless argument to make
> 
> Any AMD or Intel you can get today that uses DDR4 is going to be far more mature and stable than the first DDR5 system are going to be and its going to be cheaper too
> Dont touch anything that uses DDR5 for at least the first year its going to be full of problems and be worse as well as cost more
> 
> By the way do you have any plans to sell the 6850K and maybe the motherboard i know someone that is looking for a CPU to replace a 5820K


I agree with your point about not waiting. Waiting gets you stuck in an endless loop of "in a few months something amazing will be on its way" So my question was never "when" to upgrade, but "which way" to upgrade. As for selling, I hadn't put any thought into it. I could possibly sell the 6850k, but the motherboard is what I suspect to be the faulty part so there would be no value in selling that.


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## StAndrew

I think AMD is releasing their 3D stacked 5000 series Ryzen processors this year. If you don't want to wait for the 2022 releases, I would recommend an AMD build. Start collecting the parts and grab a new Ryzen when they are released. If you must have a PC now, you can always buy a used Ryzen 1000-3000 series until you get a good deal on a 5000 series.


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## shilka

blodflekk said:


> I agree with your point about not waiting. Waiting gets you stuck in an endless loop of "in a few months something amazing will be on its way" So my question was never "when" to upgrade, but "which way" to upgrade. As for selling, I hadn't put any thought into it. I could possibly sell the 6850k, but the motherboard is what I suspect to be the faulty part so there would be no value in selling that.


If you have the money for it what i would do is buy the Asus Crosshair VIII Dark Hero a 5800x or a 5900x (not the 5950x) and 32 GB of G SKill TridentZ Neo 3600 MHz
If the Dark Hero cost too much for you there is also the cheaper Strix-E but that has a fan on the chipset which is going to be the first thing that fails

There are fanless S X570 boards on the way and who knows when they will show up so dont bother unless they show up here in July

Edit: reason why i said dont bother with the 5950x is because how rare and hard it is to find and as such tend to be overpriced and for gaming its going to be worse than the 5900x so go with the 5800x or 5900x they are easier to find cheaper and better for gaming

If you need an NVME SSD go with the Samsung 970 Evo because everyone else have been caught doing bait and switching with NAND flash controllers and RAM so Samsung is about the only trustworthy company left that sell SSD´s

There is also the newer 980 but i dont think that drive is worth the asking price and in the real world its not going to be faster or better for most tasks other than stuff like editing so its up to you if you think the 980 or the 970 Evo is the better option


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## mothergoose729

blodflekk said:


> Reason for build:
> My current rig appears to have reached the end of the line. Its a 6850K (broadwell-e) on a rampage V edition 10. I've been having issues with my USB ports dropping out. Happens under OC and stock. Step one, I bought a USB hub, tried it in all my ports to see if I had any remaining good ports, seems like I don't. Then went and got a PCI-E USB controller and threw that in and still the same issues occur. Figure mobo or CPU is borked.
> 
> I'm fortunate to have access to a lot of high end stuff in my country without shortages being an issue. so I have been considering my two options :
> Intel 10900K + Maximus 13 apex + samsung Bdie 4000mhz+
> 
> or
> 
> Ryzen 5950X + crosshair 8 dark hero + 3600 CL14
> 
> I'm a gamer mostly, I love OC, but not XOC, I play at 3440+1440 and do some work in photoshop (web dev)


The 5950x is a better CPU but for gaming they are close enough to equal, especially if you OC the 10900k. Both are also dead end platforms as well. I would say get which ever one is cheaper, unless you know you can use the 16 cores for something other than games.


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## airisom2

I would recommend AMD's upcoming 3d vcache CPUs when they release Q4. I wanted to wait until all of the 5s came out (pcie 5, ddr5, 5nm), but AM4 is a mature platform and near the peak of its "ripeness", DDR4 is affordable-ish and fast, and it has all of the features that I need now. Pcie 4.0 is also plenty for any graphics card for the next 5 years I'm guessing, and is more than enough bandwidth for storage as well.

I've been an early adopter before, and in my experiences, buying the last generation and holding on for a few years isn't a bad move. That way when you do upgrade, you'll be on a more mature platform (bios update woes, troubleshooting, etc.), prices will be more stable, and you'll get a good jump in performance.

Plus, memory needs a few years to mature. They always start out slow and expensive and after a couple years prices and speeds start to stabilize.


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## Liranan

Dead end platform is massively overrated. DDR5 will launch at higher latency, higher timings and massively overpriced for the first two to three years. It will take quite a while for DDR5 to become a worthy replacement over DDR4, as has always been the case with such a change.

It took several years for DDR2 to be fast enough to be a real replacement over DDR 1, as was the case with DDR3 and 4. First adopters can only brag about how much they spent on inferiour technology. If that's worth it to you then you should get DDR5 the moment it's released.

A new DDR spec isn't released or created for consumers, it's created for servers first and foremost. That's why servers get the best chips and consumers get whatever's left over, as is the case with any technology (CPU, GPU, boards, SSD's, etc.).


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## Section31

Liranan said:


> Dead end platform is massively overrated. DDR5 will launch at higher latency, higher timings and massively overpriced for the first two to three years. It will take quite a while for DDR5 to become a worthy replacement over DDR4, as has always been the case with such a change.
> 
> It took several years for DDR2 to be fast enough to be a real replacement over DDR 1, as was the case with DDR3 and 4. First adopters can only brag about how much they spent on inferiour technology. If that's worth it to you then you should get DDR5 the moment it's released.
> 
> A new DDR spec isn't released or created for consumers, it's created for servers first and foremost. That's why servers get the best chips and consumers get whatever's left over, as is the case with any technology (CPU, GPU, boards, SSD's, etc.).


I agree. I'm only getting Alderlake+Mobo+Ram because i got to spend that Hong Kong government cash handout (10K HKD cash + 5K HKD digital voucher). Basically free upgrade,


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## Fluxmaven

Honestly, I'd just pick up whichever is cheaper/easier to get as they are both solid options. If you wait several years between builds, a dead end platform doesn't matter because you'll just be replacing everything either way.

I personally have a 5900x and 10850k build and they are both great.


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## munternet

shilka said:


> Edit: reason why i said dont bother with the 5950x is because how rare and hard it is to find and as such tend to be overpriced and for gaming its going to be worse than the 5900x so go with the 5800x or 5900x they are easier to find cheaper and better for gaming


There are plenty of 5950x's in New Zealand at normal price with no sign of running out


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## shilka

munternet said:


> There are plenty of 5950x's in New Zealand at normal price with no sign of running out


Seems like availability has gotten better since last i checked so never mind i dont check every single product on the market every week


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## Imglidinhere

blodflekk said:


> Reason for build:
> My current rig appears to have reached the end of the line. Its a 6850K (broadwell-e) on a rampage V edition 10. I've been having issues with my USB ports dropping out. Happens under OC and stock. Step one, I bought a USB hub, tried it in all my ports to see if I had any remaining good ports, seems like I don't. Then went and got a PCI-E USB controller and threw that in and still the same issues occur. Figure mobo or CPU is borked.
> 
> I'm fortunate to have access to a lot of high end stuff in my country without shortages being an issue. so I have been considering my two options :
> Intel 10900K + Maximus 13 apex + samsung Bdie 4000mhz+
> 
> or
> 
> Ryzen 5950X + crosshair 8 dark hero + 3600 CL14
> 
> I'm a gamer mostly, I love OC, but not XOC, I play at 3440+1440 and do some work in photoshop (web dev)


Either will legitimately do you very well. Though, good lord, if you can source DDR4 3600 CL14, that's some top-level stuff. I say go AMD if you're building a new system, as the first wave of DDR5 will be notably worse than the current normal DDR4 options, not to even touch on the level of processing power the 5950X has over the 10900K.

For gaming, they're equal. Whichever is cheaper at this point would matter more.


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## blodflekk

munternet said:


> There are plenty of 5950x's in New Zealand at normal price with no sign of running out


 Absolutely, which is why I raised the question on which platform to go with. The Intel platform is a cheaper way to go at the moment, but I'm the guy that only upgrades every 5-6 years so I'm wondering if the higher core count of the AMD will be a better performer a few years down the line


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## Section31

blodflekk said:


> Absolutely, which is why I raised the question on which platform to go with. The Intel platform is a cheaper way to go at the moment, but I'm the guy that only upgrades every 5-6 years so I'm wondering if the higher core count of the AMD will be a better performer a few years down the line


It's really hard to predict honestly imo. We got three competitors - Intel, AMD and Apple. Apple is getting very competitive chip wise. In addition, it isn't just DDR5. We got PCIE5, USB4 and other big improvements coming by 2023/2024. I do suspect the second gen PCIE 5 NVME could be must upgrade drives. That being said, whatever you buy now will be usable for 5-6years.


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## Liranan

Section31 said:


> It's really hard to predict honestly imo. We got three competitors - Intel, AMD and Apple. Apple is getting very competitive chip wise. In addition, it isn't just DDR5. We got PCIE5, USB4 and other big improvements coming by 2023/2024. I do suspect the second gen PCIE 5 NVME could be must upgrade drives. That being said, whatever you buy now will be usable for 5-6years.


The three competitors are AMD, Intel and ARM. Apple use a modified version of ARM, and they only use their chips internally so they aren't a competitor to either AMD or Intel.


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## Insidious Supra

4th quater this year. Will be interesting to see if intel's answer is worth a hoot.


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## Lass3

It won't take "years" before we see DDR5 models with lower latency but yeah they will never hit DDR4 levels in terms of latency numbers, just like DDR4 never hit DDR3 numbers here, performance will be better anyway .. Higher speed = Higher timings. DDR5 looks better than DDR4 on release. DDR4 pretty much launched at same clockspeeds as DDR3 (2133-2400). DDR5 will out of the gate be like 1.5-2 GHz faster than the best DDR4 modules, and obviously manufacturers like G.Skill etc will have lower latency modules at launch or shortly after. We will see 8+ GHz over the years.

I would not buy AM4 at this point. Unless my system broke down today maybe. Official support is over and AM5 is incoming. AMD said this back in 2017. 4 years of support which is over.

AM5 gets 5nm chips on launch and then 4/3/2 will happen. Expect big leaps. Why would anyone want to get stuck on AM4 in 2021. Dead end platform for sure. Only buy if it's on sale with big discounts this late. Same goes for Intels current stuff. Next gen incoming.

Can't wait to see what Intel does with 10nm Superfin and their 7nm and what they will launch on TSMC 3nm process.

What I am trying to say is; AMDs process advantage is over. I expect AMD prices to drop significantly going forward. Alder Lake on 10nm will be the first test (Intel 10nm Superfin = TSMC 7nm in terms of density). AMD had a good run, but Intel is waking up from it's slumber. Without Intel being stuck on 14nm and help from TSMC 7nm, AMD would never have been this succesful. GloFo 12nm was pure crap in comparison to TSMC 7nm. Even Intel 14nm is highly superior and Ryzen 1000 and 2000 were mediocre at best.


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## GanjaSMK

@blodflekk 

I have admittedly not read through the entire thread, but I did want to share my perspective. 

If I were in your shoes I would base my decision off core count and comparison. Between both systems you suggest in your OP, either will fully support your needs. There are marginal differences in certain circumstances and depending on your workload, the AMD choice may better reflect in that regard. 

If gaming, both are going to be wonderfully powerful and you're down to GPU for your resolution beyond the mainboard and CPU. 

Between the two, the AMD system generally out-performs the Intel based system, but mostly in productive work with high core-count requirements. In gaming, almost too close to call. 

So, to answer your question - it's not like say, 12 years ago where Phenom II/FX vs X58 - where X58 was clearly much more powerful.

FWIW~


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## blodflekk

Thanks for everyones input. I have decided to go the AMD route.


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## Lass3

Insidious Supra said:


> 4th quater this year. Will be interesting to see if intel's answer is worth a hoot.


Talk is cheap and those 25% is in very specific workloads, you will see in 6 months

But yeah I would also buy Ryzen 5000 series if I had to buy right now and could not wait

Absolutely no need to wait for 3D Cache...

Get 32GB RAM tho, it makes a difference today, even in games. My minimum FPS in Flight Simulator is 25-50% higher with 32GB compared to 16GB for example. Many games have 32GB in the recommended spec now. More will follow over the next years.

System generelly feels way more responsive with 32GB, page file almost never used...


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## skline00

blodflekk, what gpu are you using?


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## munternet

skline00 said:


> blodflekk, what gpu are you using?


There is a EVGA RTX2080Ti FTW3 Ultra in blodflekk's sig currently which could be good for while yet....


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## blodflekk

Yep, keeping my 2080ti ftw3 from current rig, will be in use for a few years yet. Got team group 3600mhz CL14, 32GB on its way too.


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