# After 25 years, I'm about a whisker away from giving up on PC gaming.



## ZealotKi11er

"So I waited till mid-December to see if prices came down and stock stabilized "
Lol. That was ur problem. You do not wait. By December mining has already picked up and the stock was never going to get better. Sometimes you have to overpay 100-200 to get things on time or wait 6-12 months. You got to put value for time waiting. I back-ordered my 3080 TUF in Sep 24th and got it Dec 16th.


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## DuRoc

I got my 3070 in December and some time before that I bought a 5600xt for a less demanding gaming PC. It is tough though right now, I can understand your frustration. I was going to buy my grandson a better GPU for a build I put together for him at Christmas but there is just nothing out there right now. I bought a used GTX 970 on this forum that is holding him over for now. I'd like to get him a 3060. For 1080p gaming I think that would hold him over for a long time. Just have to be patient.


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## UltraMega

I think a used 1080ti is probably one of the better buys right now. No idea what the used market is like in europe but if you need a gpu, it's a good value for the price it's going for around here.


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## Darkstar82

ZealotKi11er said:


> "So I waited till mid-December to see if prices came down and stock stabilized "
> Lol. That was ur problem. You do not wait. By December mining has already picked up and the stock was never going to get better. Sometimes you have to overpay 100-200 to get things on time or wait 6-12 months. You got to put value for time waiting. I back-ordered my 3080 TUF in Sep 24th and got it Dec 16th.


Foresight is a wonderful thing friend,  sadly humans tend not to be granted such, plus when they first launched they were beyond my budget anyhow as in the UK you are looking at $1000 to $1300 for a stock RX 6800 and its been that way since launch day which is way above MSRP+20%VAT+shipping+10% margin for the store which was what I budgeted for and set aside here in the UK the equivalent of $800, which should have been more than enough, for at least something. Shockingly, it wasn't.

Meh, tisn't the end of the world, just disheartening is all. I will wait I guess but with the damage to the global economy turning bitcoin into a safe haven to park money for a time for the big boys I don't see this ending any time soon unlike last time. It's all abit crap. Thank you for your reply, and I hope you are having fun with your card


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## Seravasvu

I was waiting for the 3080 ti to get released for months but i heard it got delayed and a couple of days later saw 10x 3090 rog strix oc's in stock. Thought about it for a few hours and bought one. My friend also bought one. The next morning they were out of stock, prices had gone up over 500€ in one night. I have lots of money to spend on pc parts, so in that way I'm not in the same situation.
Had i not had the money, i'd be pretty frustrated with the situation too, like i was a few weeks ago. It's so annoying to not be able to buy the things i want, even when i have the money.

Time is money with pc parts, they constantly lose relevancy and value. The corona situation has pushed the prices up ridiculously high. High prices and everything out of stock is horrible. 
But you can't really blame the scalpers, the gpu makers should make more if people want to buy more, for whatever use. The 3090 is a ridiculously expensive card, but for me not having to wait half a year for it is worth the extra price.

I'm sure the situation will normalize regarding availability in a year or so, prices will probably stay ridiculously high for years as they sell everything they make even with current pricing.

The price to performance hasn't gone up a lot (except with the very high-end cards), the maximum performance you can buy has. A 2080ti is still a very good card for years to come for example, even if way more powerful cards are made.

1080p was considered a really good resolution just a few years ago, now everything has to be 4k or it's nothing, even with 4k screens not being properly available. There's a big difference between "good enough" and "as good as possible". The situation isn't even that bad if good enough is good enough. CSGO, LoL, and other competitive and fun games run on pretty much anything. 
You can play almost all of the pre-2010 games with pretty much max settings on any potato now.

A "good enough" pc is still pretty cheap as of right now. It's all about your standards, the graphics standards change so fast. 
What was considered amazing and made you rub your eyes to see if it's real in 2005 is considered really bad as of now, even with it looking exactly the same as back then.
You've just seen better and don't want to go back to the amazing of yesterday.


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## Darkstar82

DuRoc said:


> I got my 3070 in December and some time before that I bought a 5600xt for a less demanding gaming PC. It is tough though right now, I can understand your frustration. I was going to buy my grandson a better GPU for a build I put together for him at Christmas but there is just nothing out there right now. I bought a used GTX 970 on this forum that is holding him over for now. I'd like to get him a 3060. For 1080p gaming I think that would hold him over for a long time. Just have to be patient.


Thank you for your understanding friend, best wishes for you and your grandson and his PC in these nutty times.


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## Darkstar82

UltraMega said:


> I think a used 1080ti is probably one of the better buys right now. No idea what the used market is like in europe but if you need a gpu, it's a good value for the price it's going for around here.


Currently, the cheapest I can see one for in terms of US dollars is $620!  it all sucks right now, but in desperation I've made a purchase a moment ago, will update the thread shortly.


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## Darkstar82

UPDATE:
So, I've taken a gamble as to be frank, what ever the hell comes will be better than a 10 year old HD5400 I'm currently stuck on but we will see.

The gamble I've made is to purchase from China via Ali, a sapphire RX 580 8 gig for US$180. Whether I get that or a potato remains to be seen but my moneys good for nought presently so I will find out in 3 days if I have a diamond or coal. What fun times.

The chances are reasonable that it is as stated as with only a 3 day delivery, the stock must already be either in the UK or Europe. Should be fun at least to see.


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## martinhal

The market is not great. I dont get the price would come down thinking. The 3080 launched at half the price of a 2080Ti .... why would that product have dropped in price by December ? The 2080 ti never really came down in price so again what would have caused the new hardware to have come down in price ?


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## Nikado7

Think everyones equally pissed. Especially when they are making cards specifically for miners like the 3060 12GB. From a company standpoint though, obviously that is where the profit is. You'll buy 1 card, a miner will buy several. Of course this absolutely sucks for gamers. Miners make money off it so they are gonna work twice as hard to get 1 or even several cards as we will just to get 1 card to game. In the end, rona is the reason and hopefully the vaccine crap will start straightening it all out.


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## umeng2002

I'm skipping this new generation of CPUs and GPUs. I wanted a RTX 30 series or a BIG NAVI card or a Ryzen 5000 CPU, but now I'm not in the mood to upgrade. I'll just wait another year to upgrade.

AMD and nVidia don't care. The crypto miners stuffed their coffers.

I did double my ram last month though... I have a feeling prices RAM are going to increase too.


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## GanjaSMK

Sad part is it will not get better anytime soon. I expect prices to remain high for several months if not into late summer. I got lucky on my RAM and GPU: 

6800XT I paid 1.25 MSRP (MSI Trio) and now it sells for 2K
RAM I paid for CL14 with slight bump to MSRP and now this kit retails 450 which is $200 more than I paid. 

Everyone is angry/frustrated/hampered much due in part to politics, global trade deficits, GPU mining, and the (still prevalent) pandemic. Super lame.


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## GanjaSMK

umeng2002 said:


> I did double my ram last month though... I have a feeling prices RAM are going to increase too.


They already have...


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## Section31

GanjaSMK said:


> They already have...


Its also near eol for ddr4. Around 18months till ddr5, pcie5, usb 4, become available. 24months max till next gen gpu comes out


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## Chuckclc

It is definitely trying times for PC gamers right now. I was lucky enough to score an RTX 3080 and a PS5, so didnt think much abut getting an 5XXX series Ryzen. Turns out still canno0t get one. Now I dont see the point. Might as well wait for what is next. I also really wanted to get my hands on a 6800XT. No chance. And I am fine with not getting something upon "release". But you would kinda expect Months later something being available. Just isnt happening.


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## Section31

I myself am in sticky situation. I am using an 5800x while i wait for my 5950x to come in. Longer delay than i expected so my plans are 

a.Continue absorbing loses on resale on my 5800x till 5950x comes in by summer (expect resale value to drop to sub 500cad).

b. If by summer, no 5950x resell the x570 hero dark, 5800x and go straight into high end intel alderlake (with meteorlake as upgrade). Keep the rest of my rig intact.


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## UltraMega

Damn... I just looked at the prices for a used 1080ti and they're going for about $600 now here in the US. Two weeks ago they were going for $450.


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## Section31

UltraMega said:


> Damn... I just looked at the prices for a used 1080ti and they're going for about $600 now here in the US. Two weeks ago they were going for $450.


Chinese New Year too plus continued logistics issues. Will take 2-3months for logistics to improve. Just got to be patient

Great time to resell stuff but if you do expect to wait for 2-3 months to get replacement


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## o1dschoo1

UltraMega said:


> Damn... I just looked at the prices for a used 1080ti and they're going for about $600 now here in the US. Two weeks ago they were going for $450.


yea lmao regular 1080s are 300-400 bucks for the gaming x and super high end aib cards. 
his best bet is to find a decent 1080 at a deal and just hold off.


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## 8051

UltraMega said:


> I think a used 1080ti is probably one of the better buys right now. No idea what the used market is like in europe but if you need a gpu, it's a good value for the price it's going for around here.


It's sad that a 3-year old GPU is considered a good buy in 2021. So sad that I'm thinking now of getting my broken gigabyte 1080ti gaming OC repaired professionally.


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## geriatricpollywog

GPUs were cheap until Ampere released but nobody wanted them. It just so happens that once people start wanting something, everybody else starts wanting it too. It doesn’t help that people out there are literally collecting graphics cards. My friend built a PC mid-2020 with a 2080 Super he bought new for $300 (where were you guys who are now desperate for GPUs?). Now he wants to build a second computer with a 6800 and is actively trying to buy one. I keep telling him he’s an idiot because he can’t use more than 1 computer at a time but he won’t listen. He’s the car collector Gundam collector gun collector type. If it’s sought-after, he wants it. Others hoard GPUs because they fear they will need a backup even though these things come with 3-4 year warranties (spoiler: your old card is losing value). When I bought my 3090, I promptly sold my 2080ti to make up the cost and to get another card back in circulation.


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## Offler

8051 said:


> It's sad that a 3-year old GPU is considered a good buy in 2021. So sad that I'm thinking now of getting my broken gigabyte 1080ti gaming OC repaired professionally.


When i looked at the GPU market post 2019, i am glad i went for Radeon VII for about 800 euro, and 200 euro in watercooling. Great chip, with botched launch and botched cooling unit.


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## Section31

0451 said:


> GPUs were cheap until Ampere released but nobody wanted them. It just so happens that once people start wanting something, everybody else starts wanting it too. It doesn’t help that people out there are literally collecting graphics cards. My friend built a PC mid-2020 with a 2080 Super he bought new for $300 (where were you guys who are now desperate for GPUs?). Now he wants to build a second computer with a 6800 and is actively trying to buy one. I keep telling him he’s an idiot because he can’t use more than 1 computer at a time but he won’t listen. He’s the car collector Gundam collector gun collector type. If it’s sought-after, he wants it. Others hoard GPUs because they fear they will need a backup even though these things come with 3-4 year warranties (spoiler: your old card is losing value). When I bought my 3090, I promptly sold my 2080ti to make up the cost and to get another card back in circulation.


Gundam collector. Arent they easy to get and affordable. I threw out all my gundams as its bad quality and they break. Unless they are into master and perfect grade then it’s costly.


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## Paradigm Shifter

Sometimes waiting improves the stock situation, sometimes it makes it worse. It's a bit like the stock market, when to buy is always a gamble. I feel most sorry for people who _must_ build a system now, due to irrecoverable hardware failure or whatever. I maintain multiple systems for this reason; if one system dies, I can use another for the time being. Said system might not be as powerful, but I can at least still do stuff.

I decided to wait on the RTX 3000 series, largely because buying one would have meant I needed to replace my case and PSU as well; and I simply didn't have the enthusiasm for that at the time. I watched prices for 3080's float around 80-95,000JPY (maybe 20% over MSRP?) until shortly before Christmas when they absolutely skyrocketed - and haven't come back down since. The stock situation was always poor for the 3080's (3090's are much easier to get, but even they have seen a minor jump in price since the new year) but cards are now going for 2-2.5x their MSRP, and I can't find one in stock at all, although I admit I'm only checking once every couple of days.

Hopefully things improve in the spring or summer, but I'm not holding my breath.


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## Section31

Paradigm Shifter said:


> Sometimes waiting improves the stock situation, sometimes it makes it worse. It's a bit like the stock market, when to buy is always a gamble. I feel most sorry for people who _must_ build a system now, due to irrecoverable hardware failure or whatever. I maintain multiple systems for this reason; if one system dies, I can use another for the time being. Said system might not be as powerful, but I can at least still do stuff.
> 
> I decided to wait on the RTX 3000 series, largely because buying one would have meant I needed to replace my case and PSU as well; and I simply didn't have the enthusiasm for that at the time. I watched prices for 3080's float around 80-95,000JPY (maybe 20% over MSRP?) until shortly before Christmas when they absolutely skyrocketed - and haven't come back down since. The stock situation was always poor for the 3080's (3090's are much easier to get, but even they have seen a minor jump in price since the new year) but cards are now going for 2-2.5x their MSRP, and I can't find one in stock at all, although I admit I'm only checking once every couple of days.
> 
> Hopefully things improve in the spring or summer, but I'm not holding my breath.


I heard Japan has it bad. I saw the recent news about the disaster ps5 event at yodabashi akiba. Quite shocking as someone who always go to that store everytime i go to tokyo.


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## Paradigm Shifter

Section31 said:


> I heard Japan has it bad. I saw the recent news about the disaster ps5 event at yodabashi akiba. Quite shocking as someone who always go to that store everytime i go to tokyo.


I'd honestly not seen anything about that in any of the news I read. Just looked it up. That's pretty nuts, but to be honest it doesn't really surprise me as much as it should. Supply sucks, scalpers are making a killing, and despite what many Westerners think... Japan gets super, super passionate about stuff. Some fans go crazy for limited edition runs of things, paying absolutely insane prices for limited run models, cards or whatever. Japanese politicians got into a fairly large brawl a few years ago - in Parliament - when debating changes to the Constitution regarding the Japanese military.


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## CaptainZombie

0451 said:


> GPUs were cheap until Ampere released but nobody wanted them. It just so happens that once people start wanting something, everybody else starts wanting it too. It doesn’t help that people out there are literally collecting graphics cards. My friend built a PC mid-2020 with a 2080 Super he bought new for $300 (where were you guys who are now desperate for GPUs?). Now he wants to build a second computer with a 6800 and is actively trying to buy one. I keep telling him he’s an idiot because he can’t use more than 1 computer at a time but he won’t listen. He’s the car collector Gundam collector gun collector type. If it’s sought-after, he wants it. Others hoard GPUs because they fear they will need a backup even though these things come with 3-4 year warranties (spoiler: your old card is losing value). When I bought my 3090, I promptly sold my 2080ti to make up the cost and to get another card back in circulation.


I've been wanting to get a 3080 the last few months to replace my aging 1080 Ti. I am to a point where as much as I don't want the 3090, but it seems to be a bit easier to obtain. I keep thinking that at least with the 3090, I can get several years use out of it for gaming and has enough ram at least. I do see that I can sell the 1080 Ti at the $600 mark on the used market so at least it helps cut some of the 3090 cost down.


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## 8051

CaptainZombie said:


> I've been wanting to get a 3080 the last few months to replace my aging 1080 Ti. I am to a point where as much as I don't want the 3090, but it seems to be a bit easier to obtain. I keep thinking that at least with the 3090, I can get several years use out of it for gaming and has enough ram at least. I do see that I can sell the 1080 Ti at the $600 mark on the used market so at least it helps cut some of the 3090 cost down.


Will $600 even represent half the cost of a 3080?


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## zGunBLADEz

Take a break brother. I did got me a ps5 been playing it more than i ever did pc gaming. Have me a bunch of backlog from ps4 and im enjoying it.

I be back, well still on the pc as i love the diversity on it to be honest. But i understand what's priorities and the hobby itself. All i want is a gpu but i refuse to pay to scalpers and the tariffs to the goverment they already tax me enough as it is.


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## Section31

zGunBLADEz said:


> Take a break brother. I did got me a ps5 been playing it more than i ever did pc gaming. Have me a bunch of backlog from ps4 and im enjoying it.
> 
> I be back well still on the pc as i love the diversity on it to be honest. But i understand what's priorities and the hobby itself. All i want is a gpu but i refuse to pay to scalpers and the tariffs to the goverment they already tax me enough as it is.


Nice you are still playing your ps5. Mine is gathering dust again.


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## zGunBLADEz

Section31 said:


> Nice you are still playing your ps5. Mine is gathering dust again.


 Still have a huge backlog on pc as well. I catch up AC Odysey out over 110hrs on it with season pass and everything after that bought AC Valhalla that was another 85hrs still waiting for the dlc now lol. The division 2 as well.

Thinking to go back to my old time favorite Mario Galaxy 1&2 emulated  never gets old to me.

Currently playing re2 on the ps5 have it in pc on "the backlog" lol


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## Section31

zGunBLADEz said:


> Still have a huge backlog on pc as well. I catch up AC Odysey out over 110hrs on it with season pass and everything after that bought AC Valhalla that was another 85hrs still waiting for the dlc now lol. The division 2 as well.
> 
> Thinking to go back to my old time favorite Mario Galaxy 1&2 emulated  never gets old to me.
> 
> Currently playing re2 on the ps5 have it in pc on "the backlog" lol


Its an trend i notice. Go play older games or watch older shows. I have been watching the recent b5 remasters lol


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## o1dschoo1

0451 said:


> GPUs were cheap until Ampere released but nobody wanted them. It just so happens that once people start wanting something, everybody else starts wanting it too. It doesn’t help that people out there are literally collecting graphics cards. My friend built a PC mid-2020 with a 2080 Super he bought new for $300 (where were you guys who are now desperate for GPUs?). Now he wants to build a second computer with a 6800 and is actively trying to buy one. I keep telling him he’s an idiot because he can’t use more than 1 computer at a time but he won’t listen. He’s the car collector Gundam collector gun collector type. If it’s sought-after, he wants it. Others hoard GPUs because they fear they will need a backup even though these things come with 3-4 year warranties (spoiler: your old card is losing value). When I bought my 3090, I promptly sold my 2080ti to make up the cost and to get another card back in circulation.


Having a gpu around helps. Like the other night I had a scare and thought my 1080 died.. artifacting while gaming pulled it and popped my old gpu and and diagnosed it. Come to find out it was the hdmi cable that went bad. 
What you gonna do if your gpu "dies" and don't have another to diagnose issues with your pc?


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## Ashura

@Darkstar82 Its actually a problem even in third world countries now. 😆

I bought a 5700XT on Dec 2018, onlyto keep me going till the next gen arrives, that ended up being a great decision, lol.

Yesterday paid about $1100 USD for a 6800XT Gaming X Trio, I'm still unsure whether to keep it or cancel it.
For reference, 3080s are listed for ~$1400.

It doesn't feel right, lol.

Here's a quote from Guru3d.


> Limited availability and nauseating price levels these days for a graphic card are becoming bothersome. I mean, even for us true hardcore PC gamers, it's getting more and more difficult to explain why people should put down this much money to be able to play computer games on a PC.





GanjaSMK said:


> Sad part is it will not get better anytime soon. I expect prices to remain high for several months if not into late summer. I got lucky on my RAM and GPU:
> 
> 6800XT I paid 1.25 MSRP (MSI Trio) and now it sells for 2K
> RAM I paid for CL14 with slight bump to MSRP and now this kit retails 450 which is $200 more than I paid.
> 
> Everyone is angry/frustrated/hampered much due in part to politics, global trade deficits, GPU mining, and the (still prevalent) pandemic. Super lame.


That's what I'm thinking too.


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## o1dschoo1

Ashura said:


> @Darkstar82 Its actually a problem even in third world countries now. 😆
> 
> I bought a 5700XT on Dec 2018, onlyto keep me going till the next gen arrives, that ended up being a great decision, lol.
> 
> Yesterday paid over 1100 USD for a 6800XT Gaming X Trio, I'm still unsure whether to keep it or cancel it.
> For reference, 3080s are listed for ~$1400.


Screw that. 1k for a 500 dollar gpu. I'll wait lol


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## 8800GT

I sold my 1060 just 2 days ago for 150CAD. If you're near the border, try looking over here for used GPUs. 1060's go for about 175, and you can find some 1080s going for 350CAD ( about 260US).


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## Ashura

o1dschoo1 said:


> Screw that. 1k for a 500 dollar gpu. I'll wait lol


Actually, the 6800XT Trio is $850 msrp. Quite overpriced, yes.
But, I don't when it'll come down. Even if it does come down, by how much ? 50 bucks? 100?


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## geriatricpollywog

o1dschoo1 said:


> Having a gpu around helps. Like the other night I had a scare and thought my 1080 died.. artifacting while gaming pulled it and popped my old gpu and and diagnosed it. Come to find out it was the hdmi cable that went bad.
> What you gonna do if your gpu "dies" and don't have another to diagnose issues with your pc?


1) Look at the motherboard post code
2) Look at the GPU OLED screen
3) Call EVGA
4) RMA it anyway just to be safe. Maybe I'll buy that $60 EVGA 10 year extended warranty.

Thinking you need a spare GPU is hoarder/collector mentality. You can sell all your old e-waste for somebody else to enjoy and use the money buy something new with a warranty.


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## o1dschoo1

And not use your pc until? Some of us need our computers lol. Try not to trash everyone for having backups.


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## geriatricpollywog

I'm sure some people do, but you've said before that you have more than 1 rig, so its a moot point. The OP wants something, anything so why not sell your old GPU to him?


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## o1dschoo1

0451 said:


> I'm sure some people do, but you've said before that you have more than 1 rig, so its a moot point. The OP wants something, anything so why not sell your old GPU to him?


780ti lmao I don't think anyone wants that


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## geriatricpollywog

o1dschoo1 said:


> 780ti lmao I don't think anyone wants that





Darkstar82 said:


> what ever the hell comes will be better than a 10 year old HD5400 I'm currently stuck on but we will see.


You gotta read the whole post. A 780ti would be an upgrade for the OP.


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## Ashura

0451 said:


> Thinking you need a spare GPU is hoarder/collector mentality. You can sell all your old e-waste for somebody else to enjoy and use the money buy something new with a warranty.


Strongly disagree.
Having a spare is very important to diagnose your PC, to pinpoint the exact faulty hardware & not end up RMA'ing the wrong part, lol.

Even if the RMA process takes time for whatever reason, your work won't stop.


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## o1dschoo1

0451 said:


> You gotta read the whole post. A 780ti would be an upgrade for the OP.


I don't international ship ever. Too much bs


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## geriatricpollywog

Ashura said:


> Strongly disagree.
> Having a spare is very important to diagnose your PC, to pinpoint the exact faulty hardware & not end up RMA'ing the wrong part, lol.
> 
> Even if the RMA process takes time for whatever reason, your work won't stop.


Absolutely, if you have 1 computer and need a GPU for work. I have a low-end company issued laptop that I have to use for work. My desktop is just for gaming, media, and web browsing and to have some separation between work and life.



o1dschoo1 said:


> I don't international ship ever. Too much bs


I sent a Vega 64 to Buildzoid in the UK. Shipping was $25 and there was no BS. You can sell your 780ti to the OP for a good price and he can cancel the order that overpriced RX580, which is nearly identical in performance.


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## SpecTRe-X

I mean, with everything that's going on in the world, worrying about updating a pc seems rather like missing the forest for the trees. The issues you're speaking to have always been there, the one that hasn't was stopping the entire global economy because of some new cough. I'd think there's bigger fish to fry than graphics card availability at the moment.


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## clonxy

Chuckclc said:


> It is definitely trying times for PC gamers right now. I was lucky enough to score an RTX 3080 and a PS5, so didnt think much abut getting an 5XXX series Ryzen. Turns out still canno0t get one. Now I dont see the point. Might as well wait for what is next. I also really wanted to get my hands on a 6800XT. No chance. And I am fine with not getting something upon "release". But you would kinda expect Months later something being available. Just isnt happening.


Have you tried newegg's "lottery"? You enter it and they select people at random to allow them to purchase things. I "won" the opportunity to purchase a 5600x and mobo combo. That's how I got my 5600x

As for OP, I feel you man. Back in April I bought a 5700 for $200 (after calculating taxes, selling the games that came with it, rebate, etc) Now that you mention it, I looked it up and it's $700 on ebay, but $360 on craigslist

Have you considered buying a pre-built pc for the gpu? I remember people use to do that back when mining prices were crazy. 

Another way around is just hop on the train with people. I mean there's a reason why the prices are so high. If mining is the cause for it, then maybe you can consider mining as well. Either way, it sounds like a good time to buy stocks in amd/nvidia


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## Blameless

As bad as the hardware situation is, I've felt like the software situation has been worse for at least fifteen years. Steam and the trend it started essentially killed AAA gaming for me.

At this point, I won't pay for anything other than an MMO that has DRM, or anything at all that requires a 3rd party client. Most of the games I play now are from GOG.

I realize I'm only buying licenses, but I don't like any situation where such licenses could be unilaterally revoked, or are dependent on any external support for the software to function. As far as I am concerned, these purchases are forever, and any clause that allows any entity to deprive me of my license reduces the value of that license to less than zero.

Fortunately, GOG is starting to take off as a platform and I have a 30 year backlog of video games anyway.



0451 said:


> Others hoard GPUs because they fear they will need a backup even though these things come with 3-4 year warranties (spoiler: your old card is losing value).


I used to keep one solid backup around, but for the last several years I don't get rid of GPUs unless I don't have systems that will physically hold them (and as I prefer to have as much first hand experience as practical, I tend to have several systems at any given moment). So I've got two 1080 Ti's, a 5700XT, a RTX 3080, and a RX 6800 XT (the first one I've paid more than MSRP on, and actually the most expensive PC component I've ever bought for personal use), among a few older parts for diagnostic or retro purposes. I buy them for gaming, but I mine on them every moment I'm not gaming on them. As I have cheap hydro power and live in a cool climate, even the 1080 Ti's are still profitable. Everything except the brand new 6800 XT that just arrived has paid for itself between mining and speculating with the mining proceeds. Crypto has been paying for my hardware habit and all of my electricity (not just what goes into mining), in full, since 2011. The profit left over, though _far_ less than what it could have been, had I been less cautious or had more foresight, also means I don't have to work much.

When my GPUs finally get displaced by better hardware, they become hand-me-downs for my kid in-laws.



Ashura said:


> Yesterday paid about $1100 USD for a 6800XT Gaming X Trio, I'm still unsure whether to keep it or cancel it.
> For reference, 3080s are listed for ~$1400.
> 
> It doesn't feel right, lol.


I spent about the same for my 6800 XT, only a few months after I was scoffing at the thought of paying $1k for a 6900XT.

But, circumstances change. I was never really thinking in terms of dollars. I set aside three ETH for my GPU upgrades, which was about $1200, total, at the time, but was almost $5000 when I actually converted it to USD. So, for me, the card actually got a lot cheaper in the three months I hesitated.

The way I see it, I'll get at least $1100 worth of knowledge and entertainment just modding and tuning the card. After that, I'll probably get several hundred, if not a few thousand, hours of entertainment out of gaming on it. By the time it's run with me is finally over, it may well have paid for it self. Either way, I'm not one for regrets.



SpecTRe-X said:


> I mean, with everything that's going on in the world, worrying about updating a pc seems rather like missing the forest for the trees. The issues you're speaking to have always been there, the one that hasn't was stopping the entire global economy because of some new cough. I'd think there's bigger fish to fry than graphics card availability at the moment.


There are always other, bigger, problems...but they're not what this thread, or this forum, are about. Whataboutery and arguments of relative privation won't get the OP a new GPU, nor will forgetting about the distractions of gaming allow the OP to run out and save the world. Indeed, the best thing many of us can do is stay home and play our video games until things get under control. It's certainly better than running around spreading SARS-CoV-2.



clonxy said:


> I mean there's a reason why the prices are so high. If mining is the cause for it, then maybe you can consider mining as well.


This is a perfect storm of supply constraints and unprecedented demand exacerbated by geopolitics. Mining is just one factor of many driving GPU prices up.

Anyway, if one already has the hardware, there isn't much to lose, but if one can _only_ justify the purchase on the hope that the hardware will pay itself down, that's certainly a gamble not everyone should be taking.


----------



## ILoveHighDPI

Darkstar82 said:


> First off, these are first world problems and I understand few will give a damn, I just want to vent.
> 
> Ive been building PC's for 25 yrs both personally and professionally. And I have never, ever, seen the industry in the state it is currently in due to rampant greed not just on the part of the companies but on the part of handfuls of mostly already rich consumers whose selfish profiteering choices have at least for now and the foreseeable future destroyed the entire industry as far as PC gamers who are not in the top 30% of income earners are concerned.
> 
> I built a new PC in October, it was a little excruciating due to a duff mobo and other problems but eventually got it all sorted but it was stressful and annoying and time consuming. Then the new GPU's got released and as I had saved up £600($850) I thought I'd be good for a top end card from AMD at least, not a chance neither on pricing nor on availability.
> 
> So I waited till mid December to see if prices came down and stock stabilized, nope, if anything they went up. So, unhappy at the whole sorry mess I went second hand and bought an RX580 for now from UK retailer CEX for £140.
> 
> Sadly the unit was damaged and had to be returned, they refunded me rather than finding me a replacement as I requested, and they had none in stock for purchase, so I went looking around to buy one new from a different retailer,
> 
> there is literally NOTHING left of any reasonable performance, anywhere this side of Europe. the odd place I've found selling an RX 580 wants £350 to £500 for it, this is a near 4 year old card for the love of God, and it was mid-range performer at that that. It is supposed to sell for £180 to £220 according to historical prices for the entire life of the product barring the last 4 weeks when its price skyrocketed along with myriad others due presumably to etherium.
> 
> I am just so depressed and miserable about it all that I feel like quitting this pursuit that I've enjoyed my entire life, for good. I've lived through many different shortages before but second use markets were always available, never before have I seen shortages of new and shortages of second user and legacy stock due to rampant greed of a tiny minority screwing over the majority with their selfishness, of course with the blessings of the corporations involved. Its a perfect storm making PC's no place for the little guy anymore.
> 
> The ones I feel for most are all the kids in the bottom 50% whose parents don't have a pot to urinate in, kids who work their rear off themselves doing myriad odd jobs to scrape together enough money to buy second user parts to cobble together their first Frankenstein PC that gets them into a lifetime of associated learning and fun, kids like I was. They have not a hope in hell now of running anything that isn't archaic and they will likely pay through the nose just for that, at least on my side of the Atlantic.
> 
> But hey so long as a sliver of adults are making more money than the pharaohs of Egypt by gambling digital Tulips who cares right.
> 
> Sad days.
> 
> UPDATE:
> So, I've taken a gamble myself, as to be frank, what ever the hell comes will be better than a 10 year old HD5400 I'm currently stuck on but we will see.
> 
> The gamble I've made is to purchase from China via Ali, a sapphire RX 580 8 gig for US$180. Whether I get that or a potato remains to be seen but my moneys good for nought presently so I will find out in 3 days if I have a diamond or coal. What fun times.
> 
> The chances are reasonable that it is as stated as with only a 3 day delivery, the stock must already be either in the UK or Europe. Should be fun at least to see.


Get an Xbox.
Supply on Series X is "limited" but it actually gets re-stocked regularly and scalpers aren't hitting Xbox as hard as other things.
I know some people look at gamepads with absolute disgust but if you just want something to tickle your eyeballs and play some new release games, Xbox will do that in spades.
Don't forget Microsoft has Bethesda now (the games aren't all in GamePass yet but the few that are missing should arrive by spring) and Flight Sim is coming to Xbox this summer.

Right now you can still do the $1 upgrade from Xbox Live Gold to GamePass Ultimate, so if you can find some $60 codes that would get three years of Ultimate for $180.
If you don't want to keep the console three years from now I'm sure re-sale value will still be pretty good.


----------



## Mhill2029

I’ve never seen things as bad to this extent. I completely skipped the 2xxx series as I wasn’t impressed by the RTX performance. I been wanting a 3090 since release, and the way things are going I may end up skipping that generation too. Fortunately I’m not in desperate need for upgrade.


----------



## Rei86

Same as you. I should have and I know I should have took the day off of the 3080 Launch and got one. But I decided to wait for AMD's offerings and totally screwed myself in getting either one. Busy days at work has kept me from gaming but I would like to get my 5900X build off the ground. 

So while waiting picked up a brand new Titan Xp from Origin gaming for cheap (mostly to collect).

So yesterday I broke down did my checks. All day yesterday Amazon was getting in stock of 3070s and 3090s, ZERO 3080s.

I'm about to break down and pick up a MSRP 3070s to mine with and spending 1800~2300 on a 3090 for my main rig.
Its been almost three months since 3080s have been coming in with most people being hopeful that Best Buy will be getting a stock of FE 3080s tomorrow.


----------



## shilka

I managed to get an RTX 3070 in december before before price and stock went straight to hell but the card had massive coil whine so i sent it back and was told i would be put at the back end of the waiting list or i could get a refund so i took the refund and was going to buy the Radeon 6800 instead but the waiting list for those was even longer so i decided to wait

Now over a month have gone by and prices has gone up at least $115 for every single card here some cards have gone up as much as $250 and the waiting list is just getting longer and longer not shorter

Really wish i that i had ordered the Gigabyte Radeon 6800 Gaming OC or the Asus Strix before prices got jacked up
Even during the last mining craze you could still get some second hand cards or older cards but now everything is sold out or overpriced to hell

I am willing to wait untill july if things are not better by then i am just going to spend my money on getting another 18 TB HDD or two


----------



## Section31

Rei86 said:


> Same as you. I should have and I know I should have took the day off of the 3080 Launch and got one. But I decided to wait for AMD's offerings and totally screwed myself in getting either one. Busy days at work has kept me from gaming but I would like to get my 5900X build off the ground.
> 
> So while waiting picked up a brand new Titan Xp from Origin gaming for cheap (mostly to collect).
> 
> So yesterday I broke down did my checks. All day yesterday Amazon was getting in stock of 3070s and 3090s, ZERO 3080s.
> 
> I'm about to break down and pick up a MSRP 3070s to mine with and spending 1800~2300 on a 3090 for my main rig.
> Its been almost three months since 3080s have been coming in with most people being hopeful that Best Buy will be getting a stock of FE 3080s tomorrow.


I should have gone through with the deal with my Hong Kong friend lol. We spilt up the costs of an 5950x itx 3080 strix system from Hong Kong (he already had an 5600x) and got my parents to bring back the 5950x cpu and 3080strix back to me.


----------



## Rei86

Section31 said:


> I should have gone through with the deal with my Hong Kong friend lol. We spilt up the costs of an 5950x itx 3080 strix system from Hong Kong (he already had an 5600x) and got my parents to bring back the 5950x cpu and 3080strix back to me.


Yup should have 

Even with the rumored 3080Ti coming out later on this year with 12GB of VRAM vs 20GB. I bet most of us will hardly see it in retail E Store or on shelves.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Blameless said:


> As bad as the hardware situation is, I've felt like the software situation has been worse for at least fifteen years. Steam and the trend it started essentially killed AAA gaming for me.
> 
> At this point, I won't pay for anything other than an MMO that has DRM, or anything at all that requires a 3rd party client. Most of the games I play now are from GOG.
> 
> I realize I'm only buying licenses, but I don't like any situation where such licenses could be unilaterally revoked, or are dependent on any external support for the software to function. As far as I am concerned, these purchases are forever, and any clause that allows any entity to deprive me of my license reduces the value of that license to less than zero.
> 
> Fortunately, GOG is starting to take off as a platform and I have a 30 year backlog of video games anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> I used to keep one solid backup around, but for the last several years I don't get rid of GPUs unless I don't have systems that will physically hold them (and as I prefer to have as much first hand experience as practical, I tend to have several systems at any given moment). So I've got two 1080 Ti's, a 5700XT, a RTX 3080, and a RX 6800 XT (the first one I've paid more than MSRP on, and actually the most expensive PC component I've ever bought for personal use), among a few older parts for diagnostic or retro purposes. I buy them for gaming, but I mine on them every moment I'm not gaming on them. As I have cheap hydro power and live in a cool climate, even the 1080 Ti's are still profitable. Everything except the brand new 6800 XT that just arrived has paid for itself between mining and speculating with the mining proceeds. Crypto has been paying for my hardware habit and all of my electricity (not just what goes into mining), in full, since 2011. The profit left over, though _far_ less than what it could have been, had I been less cautious or had more foresight, also means I don't have to work much.
> 
> When my GPUs finally get displaced by better hardware, they become hand-me-downs for my kid in-laws.
> 
> 
> 
> I spent about the same for my 6800 XT, only a few months after I was scoffing at the thought of paying $1k for a 6900XT.
> 
> But, circumstances change. I was never really thinking in terms of dollars. I set aside three ETH for my GPU upgrades, which was about $1200, total, at the time, but was almost $5000 when I actually converted it to USD. So, for me, the card actually got a lot cheaper in the three months I hesitated.


Having multiple full rigs containing a 2 x 1080ti, a 5700xt, a 6800xt, and a 3080 is disproportionately contributing to the OP not being able to find a card. I fail to see how the small joys you get collecting full rigs with powerful GPUs outweighs the opportunity cost of selling the rigs outright (now or in the past) and buying ETH outright. Anybody can rationalize anything though.


----------



## littledonny

OP, you have to understand that all of the high-end gear is being sold for 4k users and ultra settings. If you want to game for cheap, get a 24" 1080p monitor and a $350 used graphics card and call it a day playing everything at 1080p60 ultra.


----------



## Blameless

0451 said:


> Having multiple full rigs containing a 2 x 1080ti, a 5700xt, a 6800xt, and a 3080 is disproportionately contributing to the OP not being able to find a card.


I'm sure I have plenty of things plenty of other people would like to have, and vice versa, but I'm not asking anyone to inconvenience themselves for my benefit.



0451 said:


> I fail to see how the small joys you get collecting full rigs with powerful GPUs outweighs the opportunity cost of selling the rigs outright (now or in the past) and buying ETH outright. Anybody can rationalize anything though.


I'm a PC enthusiast. It's a major hobby of mine.

Crypto is a minor hobby of mine.

Keeping the hardware means I can have my cake and eat it too.


----------



## o1dschoo1

Blameless said:


> I'm sure I have plenty of things plenty of other people would like to have, and vice versa, but I'm not asking anyone to inconvenience themselves for my benefit.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a PC enthusiast. It's a major hobby of mine.
> 
> Crypto is a minor hobby of mine.
> 
> Keeping the hardware means I can have my cake and eat it too.


Don't worry about him lol. He gave me **** for having a 780ti in a media pc.


----------



## Darkstar82

Seravasvu said:


> I was waiting for the 3080 ti to get released for months but i heard it got delayed and a couple of days later saw 10x 3090 rog strix oc's in stock. Thought about it for a few hours and bought one. My friend also bought one. The next morning they were out of stock, prices had gone up over 500€ in one night. I have lots of money to spend on pc parts, so in that way I'm not in the same situation.
> Had i not had the money, i'd be pretty frustrated with the situation too, like i was a few weeks ago. It's so annoying to not be able to buy the things i want, even when i have the money.
> 
> Time is money with pc parts, they constantly lose relevancy and value. The corona situation has pushed the prices up ridiculously high. High prices and everything out of stock is horrible.
> But you can't really blame the scalpers, the gpu makers should make more if people want to buy more, for whatever use. The 3090 is a ridiculously expensive card, but for me not having to wait half a year for it is worth the extra price.
> 
> I'm sure the situation will normalize regarding availability in a year or so, prices will probably stay ridiculously high for years as they sell everything they make even with current pricing.
> 
> The price to performance hasn't gone up a lot (except with the very high-end cards), the maximum performance you can buy has. A 2080ti is still a very good card for years to come for example, even if way more powerful cards are made.
> 
> 1080p was considered a really good resolution just a few years ago, now everything has to be 4k or it's nothing, even with 4k screens not being properly available. There's a big difference between "good enough" and "as good as possible". The situation isn't even that bad if good enough is good enough. CSGO, LoL, and other competitive and fun games run on pretty much anything.
> You can play almost all of the pre-2010 games with pretty much max settings on any potato now.
> 
> A "good enough" pc is still pretty cheap as of right now. It's all about your standards, the graphics standards change so fast.
> What was considered amazing and made you rub your eyes to see if it's real in 2005 is considered really bad as of now, even with it looking exactly the same as back then.
> You've just seen better and don't want to go back to the amazing of yesterday.





martinhal said:


> The market is not great. I dont get the price would come down thinking. The 3080 launched at half the price of a 2080Ti .... why would that product have dropped in price by December ? The 2080 ti never really came down in price so again what would have caused the new hardware to have come down in price ?


Re my thinking on prices coming down, you have to keep in mind I am in the UK so prices at launch were already artificially high compared to US pricing but the scarcity factor added additional weight to increased pricing. I had hoped by late December / January there would be a little more stock about from partner providers and such and so less scarcity and a more normal price but that didn't happen and crypto boom did. There is no reason an RX 6800 non XT should cost more than £600 ($850) in the UK, yet there are none for sale for less than the equivalent of $1000, which is just straight up price gauging due to scarcity. I hope that explains my thinking for you  it was wishful thinking it seems.


----------



## Section31

On the bright side, it looks like the factory in China won't be closing during Chinese New Year. Companies are offering bonuses to staff to continue working and with the travel restrictions there (lot of time in quarantine), we might have things continuing to operate normally.


----------



## Blameless

o1dschoo1 said:


> Don't worry about him lol. He gave me **** for having a 780ti in a media pc.


I have 80GiB of RAM a Xeon E5-1660v3 and a 1080 Ti in my HTPC.


----------



## o1dschoo1

Blameless said:


> I have 80GiB of RAM a Xeon E5-1660v3 and a 1080 Ti in my HTPC.


Lol as soon as I get my 6900xt I'm putting my 1080 in my htpc. Running a 7800x skylake x at 4.7 under water on both cpu and gpu with 32gb of bdie. I mean I just enjoy building pcs and overclocking. My 780s will more than likely get wall mounted as I've had them since release.


----------



## Blameless

o1dschoo1 said:


> I mean I just enjoy building pcs and overclocking.


Exactly.

I also like to play VR games on my HTPC and have a back up system capable of doing my wife's bioinformatics (a lot of comparative genomics with BLAST) work on.


----------



## SmOgER

OP, that;s weird. In Lithuania you can get RX580 for 270EUR (retail, brand new) no issues.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

o1dschoo1 said:


> Lol as soon as I get my 6900xt I'm putting my 1080 in my htpc. Running a 7800x skylake x at 4.7 under water on both cpu and gpu with 32gb of bdie. I mean I just enjoy building pcs and overclocking. My 780s will more than likely get wall mounted as I've had them since release.


There are starving kids around the world who could eat that GPU.


----------



## Seravasvu

Darkstar82 said:


> Re my thinking on prices coming down, you have to keep in mind I am in the UK so prices at launch were already artificially high compared to US pricing but the scarcity factor added additional weight to increased pricing. I had hoped by late December / January there would be a little more stock about from partner providers and such and so less scarcity and a more normal price but that didn't happen and crypto boom did. There is no reason an RX 6800 non XT should cost more than £600 ($850) in the UK, yet there are none for sale for less than the equivalent of $1000, which is just straight up price gauging due to scarcity. I hope that explains my thinking for you  it was wishful thinking it seems.


The prices are ridiculous here in Finland too.
Around 1000€ for a 3070 (pretty good availability of these though, probably due to the price), 1300€ for a permanently out of stock 3080 and 2000+€ for a 3090. The most expensive ones currently cost 2700€.
The 6900xt costs about 1800€ with giga low stock, 6800xt is completely out of stock and over 1k.


----------



## Darkstar82

SmOgER said:


> OP, that;s weird. In Lithuania you can get RX580 for 270EUR (retail, brand new) no issues.


May have something to do with my nation recently making a COLOSSAL mistake due to an over abundance of boomers who dislike foreigners (im half welsh and half Italian so no such issues) resulting in the UK ripping itself apart from the world larges trading block in the middle of the greatest economic decline in 400 years because we enjoy salt in wounds via leaders committing manslaughter via incompetence. 

Sorry, bit too political. But it may go someway to explaining why a 4yr old card cannot be had here for anything less than 40% more than what it was prior to January. Its just a perfect storm my end, covid, scalpers, miners, brexit, all breading massive scarcity. Depressing and worrying more generally. If you could friend, can you drop me the link of where you spotted that card if its online? If the card I've bought from China turns out to be a dudd I may try to see if I can buy that one.


----------



## Darkstar82

o1dschoo1 said:


> 780ti lmao I don't think anyone wants that


😂 It's the thought that counts.


----------



## o1dschoo1

Darkstar82 said:


> 😂 It's the thought that counts.


True lol


----------



## Rei86

Just a heads up Best Buy online had two drops of RTX 3060Ti, 3070, 3080 and 3090 FE models. 

Keep watch as another one might drop before 5pm EST. Good hunting friends.


----------



## ObscureEmpyre

To the OP, I feel your pain. I built my dream system a couple of years ago with a 9900K and a 2080 Ti (after a year of using a 2080). I saw the new Intel boards and CPUs and figured I’d wait until at least the next gen before considering an upgrade. Then, the RTX 3000 series hit, and those prices were enticing! I figured I’d wait and see how they performed before considering replacing my 2080 Ti. Well, it’s a good thing I didn’t jump the gun by selling my 2080 Ti to help pay for a 3080 or a 3090. My go-to brand, EVGA, hasn’t had any in stock since September. That’s now five months ago! EVGA PSUs are also virtually nonexistent. It truly makes me wonder how the company is surviving.

On a different note, my wife’s system took a crap a few months ago. Bad timing since she’s a full-time student and uses the system for school. It’s also running a Z390 motherboard with a 9700K. It took me weeks to diagnose it because of my schedule, and thankfully it was only a dead SATA power cable. I did look into replacement Z390 boards just in case it was that, and I looked at both new and used. I was astonished to see used Z390 boards going for more than they originally retailed for! Again, I’m thankful it was just a bad power cable. Unfortunately, the price gauging of GPUs by scalpers has bled into other PC components, and it’s made for a sad state of affairs. So, I feel you on maybe wanting to bow out of the PC-building arena, or at least for the time being.


----------



## Avacado

ObscureEmpyre said:


> To the OP, I feel your pain. I built my dream system a couple of years ago with a 9900K and a 2080 Ti (after a year of using a 2080). I saw the new Intel boards and CPUs and figured I’d wait until at least the next gen before considering an upgrade. Then, the RTX 3000 series hit, and those prices were enticing! I figured I’d wait and see how they performed before considering replacing my 2080 Ti. Well, it’s a good thing I didn’t jump the gun by selling my 2080 Ti to help pay for a 3080 or a 3090. My go-to brand, EVGA, hasn’t had any in stock since September. That’s now five months ago! EVGA PSUs are also virtually nonexistent. It truly makes me wonder how the company is surviving.
> 
> On a different note, my wife’s system took a crap a few months ago. Bad timing since she’s a full-time student and uses the system for school. It’s also running a Z390 motherboard with a 9700K. It took me weeks to diagnose it because of my schedule, and thankfully it was only a dead SATA power cable. I did look into replacement Z390 boards just in case it was that, and I looked at both new and used. I was astonished to see used Z390 boards going for more than they originally retailed for! Again, I’m thankful it was just a bad power cable. Unfortunately, the price gauging of GPUs by scalpers has bled into other PC components, and it’s made for a sad state of affairs. So, I feel you on maybe wanting to bow out of the PC-building arena, or at least for the time being.


True story. I am pretty well stocked on just about everything besides GPU's for sale, if anyone I trusted on this forum needed to find something at retail + Shipping (If New), I would help them out.


----------



## MasterBillyQuizBoy

Darkstar82 said:


> First off, these are first world problems and I understand few will give a damn, I just want to vent.
> 
> Ive been building PC's for 25 yrs both personally and professionally. And I have never, ever, seen the industry in the state it is currently in due to rampant greed not just on the part of the companies but on the part of handfuls of mostly already rich consumers whose selfish profiteering choices have at least for now and the foreseeable future destroyed the entire industry as far as PC gamers who are not in the top 30% of income earners are concerned.
> 
> I built a new PC in October, it was a little excruciating due to a duff mobo and other problems but eventually got it all sorted but it was stressful and annoying and time consuming. Then the new GPU's got released and as I had saved up £600($850) I thought I'd be good for a top end card from AMD at least, not a chance neither on pricing nor on availability.
> 
> So I waited till mid December to see if prices came down and stock stabilized, nope, if anything they went up. So, unhappy at the whole sorry mess I went second hand and bought an RX580 for now from UK retailer CEX for £140.
> 
> Sadly the unit was damaged and had to be returned, they refunded me rather than finding me a replacement as I requested, and they had none in stock for purchase, so I went looking around to buy one new from a different retailer,
> 
> there is literally NOTHING left of any reasonable performance, anywhere this side of Europe. the odd place I've found selling an RX 580 wants £350 to £500 for it, this is a near 4 year old card for the love of God, and it was mid-range performer at that that. It is supposed to sell for £180 to £220 according to historical prices for the entire life of the product barring the last 4 weeks when its price skyrocketed along with myriad others due presumably to etherium.
> 
> I am just so depressed and miserable about it all that I feel like quitting this pursuit that I've enjoyed my entire life, for good. I've lived through many different shortages before but second use markets were always available, never before have I seen shortages of new and shortages of second user and legacy stock due to rampant greed of a tiny minority screwing over the majority with their selfishness, of course with the blessings of the corporations involved. Its a perfect storm making PC's no place for the little guy anymore.
> 
> The ones I feel for most are all the kids in the bottom 50% whose parents don't have a pot to urinate in, kids who work their rear off themselves doing myriad odd jobs to scrape together enough money to buy second user parts to cobble together their first Frankenstein PC that gets them into a lifetime of associated learning and fun, kids like I was. They have not a hope in hell now of running anything that isn't archaic and they will likely pay through the nose just for that, at least on my side of the Atlantic.
> 
> But hey so long as a sliver of adults are making more money than the pharaohs of Egypt by gambling digital Tulips who cares right.
> 
> Sad days.
> 
> UPDATE:
> So, I've taken a gamble myself, as to be frank, what ever the hell comes will be better than a 10 year old HD5400 I'm currently stuck on but we will see.
> 
> The gamble I've made is to purchase from China via Ali, a sapphire RX 580 8 gig for US$180. Whether I get that or a potato remains to be seen but my moneys good for nought presently so I will find out in 3 days if I have a diamond or coal. What fun times.
> 
> The chances are reasonable that it is as stated as with only a 3 day delivery, the stock must already be either in the UK or Europe. Should be fun at least to see.


I think you're being overly dramatic. My kids run an FX and Phenom II with R9-270x's. I'm sure you can find the equivalent. Despite what is the trend those setups run everything. You don't need a video card these days like you needed one in 2003.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

yeah I've kind of decided to take a break from PC games and hardware for a long time. I finally upgraded from my 2014 Devil's Canyon, but after redoing my water loop and everything... it's just been a hassle (while fun to do you know, I missed it) and honestly communities aren't the same anymore. It's a lot of brigading and superiority complexes. They've always existed even back in my time on OCN but with the popularity of reddit and all these toxic twitch celebrities and stuff, idk. It's not as enjoyable for me personally anymore. The availability of parts and how greedy the second hand market is sucks too.

Also, don't have enough time for it anymore because jobs hehe

So in short, I feel this and some of the comments echo'd here. I just play strictly casual co-op PC games with friends, and leave my "hardcore AAA" desires to consoles.


----------



## Dan848

Eventually the crypto market will tank, like it did before and video cards will flood the market, again. As you mentioned, currently greed is running rampant. Nvidia and AMD are at least somewhat afraid to make a lot more product because if the fake money market crashes there will be a glut of GPUs on the market and Nvidia and AMD could have a lot of video cards they can't sell and the market is always trying onward and upward to keep making money. Can't make new product if millions of video cards are still on their shelves. So, the people that those companies pretend to care about get the shaft - because Nvidia especially doesn't care about them.

And, the new cards have problems. Nvidia 3000 series has been on the market since September, 5 months ago and there are still serious driver problems. If anyone has a 2080 or 2080 Ti, I wouldn't suggest upgrading right now, with the drivers the way they are.


----------



## 8051

Dan848 said:


> Eventually the crypto market will tank, like it did before and video cards will flood the market, again. As you mentioned, currently greed is running rampant. Nvidia and AMD are at least somewhat afraid to make a lot more product because if the fake money market crashes there will be a glut of GPUs on the market and Nvidia and AMD could have a lot of video cards they can't sell and the market is always trying onward and upward to keep making money. Can't make new product if millions of video cards are still on their shelves. So, the people that those companies pretend to care about get the shaft - because Nvidia especially doesn't care about them.
> 
> And, the new cards have problems. Nvidia 3000 series has been on the market since September, 5 months ago and there are still serious driver problems. If anyone has a 2080 or 2080 Ti, I wouldn't suggest upgrading right now, with the drivers the way they are.


Interesting so Nvidia and AMD are deliberately reducing the number of GPU's they manufacture? Or are the AIB's deliberately reducing the number of cards they manufacture (i.e. to keep prices high)?


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## Jharel

My first PC was an IBM PC 4.77MHz back in 1985... didn't build my own PCs until the mid 90s though

I'm just wondering what you were upgrading from, since my first reaction to such a situation is not "giving up completely" but just "hold off on upgrading"
I've had a Sandy Bridge Core i5 2500K pretty much forever, at the end even tried playing Battlefield V with an RTX 2070 installed with it (hilarious experience, for the most part it actually did okay). That's how long I held out. I admit I was comparatively fortunate in that I upgraded CPU/motherboard during Ryzen 3xxx release, before all the craziness. However if I was late to that I'd just wait it out. After all, I have this practically infinite backlog of games, most of which don't even require the latest and greatest hardware (most of these major game publishers like EA/Epic/Ubisoft throw free games at people on a regular basis to get us to use their proprietary launchers... I've lost track of how many games I have that I never even played). I've no real issues with those hundreds of games in the backlog even if I sticked with my old GTX 770. 

Yeah the situation sucks but I'd just shrug my shoulders. If the price sucks then I just don't buy and make do with what I have. It's not the end of the world.


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## Sainttellah 11

Darkstar82 said:


> First off, these are first world problems and I understand few will give a damn, I just want to vent.
> 
> Ive been building PC's for 25 yrs both personally and professionally. And I have never, ever, seen the industry in the state it is currently in due to rampant greed not just on the part of the companies but on the part of handfuls of mostly already rich consumers whose selfish profiteering choices have at least for now and the foreseeable future destroyed the entire industry as far as PC gamers who are not in the top 30% of income earners are concerned.
> 
> I built a new PC in October, it was a little excruciating due to a duff mobo and other problems but eventually got it all sorted but it was stressful and annoying and time consuming. Then the new GPU's got released and as I had saved up £600($850) I thought I'd be good for a top end card from AMD at least, not a chance neither on pricing nor on availability.
> 
> So I waited till mid December to see if prices came down and stock stabilized, nope, if anything they went up. So, unhappy at the whole sorry mess I went second hand and bought an RX580 for now from UK retailer CEX for £140.
> 
> Sadly the unit was damaged and had to be returned, they refunded me rather than finding me a replacement as I requested, and they had none in stock for purchase, so I went looking around to buy one new from a different retailer,
> 
> there is literally NOTHING left of any reasonable performance, anywhere this side of Europe. the odd place I've found selling an RX 580 wants £350 to £500 for it, this is a near 4 year old card for the love of God, and it was mid-range performer at that that. It is supposed to sell for £180 to £220 according to historical prices for the entire life of the product barring the last 4 weeks when its price skyrocketed along with myriad others due presumably to etherium.
> 
> I am just so depressed and miserable about it all that I feel like quitting this pursuit that I've enjoyed my entire life, for good. I've lived through many different shortages before but second use markets were always available, never before have I seen shortages of new and shortages of second user and legacy stock due to rampant greed of a tiny minority screwing over the majority with their selfishness, of course with the blessings of the corporations involved. Its a perfect storm making PC's no place for the little guy anymore.
> 
> The ones I feel for most are all the kids in the bottom 50% whose parents don't have a pot to urinate in, kids who work their rear off themselves doing myriad odd jobs to scrape together enough money to buy second user parts to cobble together their first Frankenstein PC that gets them into a lifetime of associated learning and fun, kids like I was. They have not a hope in hell now of running anything that isn't archaic and they will likely pay through the nose just for that, at least on my side of the Atlantic.
> 
> But hey so long as a sliver of adults are making more money than the pharaohs of Egypt by gambling digital Tulips who cares right.
> 
> Sad days.
> 
> UPDATE:
> So, I've taken a gamble myself, as to be frank, what ever the hell comes will be better than a 10 year old HD5400 I'm currently stuck on but we will see.
> 
> The gamble I've made is to purchase from China via Ali, a sapphire RX 580 8 gig for US$180. Whether I get that or a potato remains to be seen but my moneys good for nought presently so I will find out in 3 days if I have a diamond or coal. What fun times.
> 
> The chances are reasonable that it is as stated as with only a 3 day delivery, the stock must already be either in the UK or Europe. Should be fun at least to see.


I feel this all so much-
I am tempted to throw it away as well. 
Greed is a horrible thing. When I see mining rigs and scalper pricing it legit turns my stomach.
I can’t fix the global problem, but amidst the chaos and drama of the new card release and scalper pricing. I was able to get a 3080 as an upgrade for my 5700xt sapphire nitro+... and I tried to balance the universe in my own way by underselling my old video card to a needy gamer for $280. Which was well under msrp and the average resell which at that time was $600.
I’m not rich but I don’t need money so bad I’ll steal from another person , which is effectively what scalping is. If a product msrp is 500 and it is being sold at $1000- it can be framed in a number of ways “supply in demand”- however it’s like they imagine scalping is a necessity, obligatory- adding a retailer to a retailer to bite into more of good peoples earnings. Like those hedge fund twats that short sell stocks... adding zero value to the world and trying to milk it for all they can.

I feel you.


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## Nantes

Seravasvu said:


> 1080p was considered a really good resolution just a few years ago, now everything has to be 4k or it's nothing, even with 4k screens not being properly available.


I know I probably shouldn't be quoting a message from the first page on the fourth, but I couldn't let this one pass. What you present is a false dichotomy. You're forgetting the in-between option, 1440p. It has about 75% more pixels than 1080p, and there's also 1440p ultrawide (150% more pixels) which is what I use on a 34'' monitor. 4K (300% more pixels) for gaming is pretty stupid at this point in time, and you probably can't even tell the difference from 1440p anyway unless the monitor is super huge.


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## Rei86

Dan848 said:


> Eventually the crypto market will tank, like it did before and video cards will flood the market, again.


Not if more companies legitimize it as a real option to purchase their goods.


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## o1dschoo1

Rei86 said:


> Not if more companies legitimize it as a real option to purchase their goods.


This has happened before it will tank.


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## Atomagenesis

Crypto-mining is the main issue.


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## ILoveHighDPI

Nantes said:


> I know I probably shouldn't be quoting a message from the first page on the fourth, but I couldn't let this one pass. What you present is a false dichotomy. You're forgetting the in-between option, 1440p. It has about 75% more pixels than 1080p, and there's also 1440p ultrawide (150% more pixels) which is what I use on a 34'' monitor. 4K (300% more pixels) for gaming is pretty stupid at this point in time, and you probably can't even tell the difference from 1440p anyway unless the monitor is super huge.


The difference between 1440p and 4K is easily perceivable at basically any screen size.

Classic HDTV marketing, as well as "Apple Retina", is all based on the "One Arc Minute" or "60 Pixels Per Degree" limitation in Human Vision, which is a very real thing, but it only applies to high frequency patterns like a Line Pair chart. So 60PPD is an easy target for some convincing marketing when you can just throw a chart covered in lines onto a screen and say "See When The Lines Blur".
Problem is most of the detail in a given image is not high frequency, and even if it were, that's not the detail we pay attention to (mental focus is hugely important in visual perception).





__





Visual Acuity ↔ Hyperacuity


Demonstration of Visual Acuity vs. Hyperacuity




michaelbach.de





Low frequency details, such as high contrast outlines of objects, only apply to the limit of "Hyperacuity" which is 5-10x more detailed than normal "Visual Acuity".
So according to the limits of Hyperacuity the average person is still going to perceive improvements in image sharpness up to about 300 Pixels Per Degree (you can verify this yourself with some practical tests using the BlurBusters jaggie test).
These low frequency details are also usually the parts of the image we pay the most attention to and will naturally scrutinize.
In order to come anywhere close to the 300PPD mark most people are going to need an 8K display.

Of course rendering at Native 8K is ridiculous, but with technologies like Variable Rate Shading a well optimized implementation of 8K VRS would be very similar to running 4X MSAA at 4K, and the basic principles of varying resolution by contrast could be applied more or less stringently, or developers could choose to raise sharpness only on certain objects, but regardless of how aggressively you want to apply that scaling you can't have any high sharpness elements in the image without 8K hardware. Pixels cannot be dynamically added to your display, but resolution can always scale down.
HDMI 2.1 does include specifications for 8K120hz using Display Steam Compression, the same as what allows the Samsung Odyssey G9 to push 90% of 4K at 240fps, so as soon as you combine VRS and DSC there's no reason to say that 8K is limited to low framerate content either.


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## SpecTRe-X

Blameless said:


> There are always other, bigger, problems...but they're not what this thread, or this forum, are about. Whataboutery and arguments of relative privation won't get the OP a new GPU, nor will forgetting about the distractions of gaming allow the OP to run out and save the world. Indeed, the best thing many of us can do is stay home and play our video games until things get under control. It's certainly better than running around spreading SARS-CoV-2.


You've missed my point though. What I was saying is that the majority of the OP's complaints stem from that bigger problem and by positioning oneself against gaming and the hardware portion ignores that root cause. Addressing the effect would be like taking a bottle of Aspirin a day to deal with the pain from my broken leg and then wondering why my kidneys and liver are failing. I understand that no one wants their forum to be a place of serious discussion, because God forbid we come to a reasonable consensus on remedies to underlying issues, but to but to conflate that my post was akin to asserting OP should be out saving the world is disingenuous.

I still find it amusing that that Cov 2 is something like the fourth Sars variant to sweep the world in the last ~25 years but where the last 3 weren't a big deal and no one cared this one is suddenly worse than the bubonic plague even though there's no actual data supporting that. Never mind that it's perfectly legal in these lock-down states to conceal your AIDs positive status from partners but if you accidentally sneeze on someone you're suddenly worse than that spicy Austrian artist.



Blameless said:


> ...exacerbated by geopolitics. ...


Wait, I thought this wasn't the place for "whataboutery" and arguments of relative privation. You're not helping the OP get a GPU, my man.


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## Schmuckley

*


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## Schmuckley

Darkstar82 said:


> May have something to do with my nation recently making a COLOSSAL mistake due to an over abundance of boomers who dislike foreigners (im half welsh and half Italian so no such issues) resulting in the UK ripping itself apart from the world larges trading block in the middle of the greatest economic decline in 400 years because we enjoy salt in wounds via leaders committing manslaughter via incompetence.
> 
> Sorry, bit too political. But it may go someway to explaining why a 4yr old card cannot be had here for anything less than 40% more than what it was prior to January. Its just a perfect storm my end, covid, scalpers, miners, brexit, all breading massive scarcity. Depressing and worrying more generally. If you could friend, can you drop me the link of where you spotted that card if its online? If the card I've bought from China turns out to be a dudd I may try to see if I can buy that one.


What about a GTX 1660? They perform better than an AMD 580


Pretty sure just a bit better than a 1060.


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## Krawk

I have seen the same issue spoil my desire to upgrade. I have a MSI Gaming X 1080Ti, I skipped the 2080Ti and am now considering the 3080Ti but might pass on it as well, the price is not desirable and it looks like they might be gimping the card beyond what they should, making the price a huuuuge factor.


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## Blameless

SpecTRe-X said:


> the majority of the OP's complaints stem from that bigger problem


Probably not the majority.



SpecTRe-X said:


> I understand that no one wants their forum to be a place of serious discussion, because God forbid we come to a reasonable consensus on remedies to underlying issues, but to but to conflate that my post was akin to asserting OP should be out saving the world is disingenuous.


You aren't going to be a part of any reasonable consensus on these issues because your stance on these issues is not reasonable.

If the wider world were capable of such a thing, there wouldn't be any pandemic, because it would have been stopped before it got to that point.



SpecTRe-X said:


> I still find it amusing that that Cov 2 is something like the fourth Sars variant to sweep the world in the last ~25 years but where the last 3 weren't a big deal and no one cared this one is suddenly worse than the bubonic plague even though there's no actual data supporting that. Never mind that it's perfectly legal in these lock-down states to conceal your AIDs positive status from partners but if you accidentally sneeze on someone you're suddenly worse than that spicy Austrian artist.


Utter nonsense. There is plenty of actual data on COVID-19. If you're doubting the death toll because SARS-CoV-2 doesn't directly kill the majority of it's victims, you might want to rethink your AIDS comparison, because that kills almost no one, in and of itself. An AIDS patient that dies from an opportunistic infection or cancer still goes down as an AIDS-related death, for damn good reason.

SARS-CoV-2 has been responsible for more deaths in the last year than all prior SARS outbreaks (whose lessons weren't heeded), plus all the world wide cases of plague (which hasn't been scary since the invention of antibiotics) in modern times, combined. It's even significantly out doing HIV/AIDS, in the short term.

Subjectively speaking SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 is more frightening than HIV/AIDS because it's vastly more transmissible and relatively less treatable. I don't need to worry about contracting HIV because I'm not having unprotected sex with untested people, and if were I an intravenous drug user, I'd be using clean needles. Also, concealing one's HIV positive status from a sexual partner can and has been treated as a crime in some jurisdictions on the principle that it violates informed consent. However, the odds of transmission are relatively low and categorically criminalizing omission of one's HIV status has been shown to not be in the interest of public health.

And yes, if you accidentally sneeze on someone during a pandemic of a serious respiratory illness--which is only possible if you are way too close and not wearing a face covering--you are scum.



SpecTRe-X said:


> Wait, I thought this wasn't the place for "whataboutery" and arguments of relative privation.


It's not and the passage you quoted wasn't an example of such.


----------



## SpecTRe-X

Blameless said:


> Probably not the majority.


Exacerbated greed, tighter margins, wider demarcation of income brackets, market profiteering, lack of supply, and overpricing due to inflated demand are all direct results of the shutting of the global economy and society in general.



Blameless said:


> You aren't going to be a part of any reasonable consensus on these issues because your stance on these issues is not reasonable.
> If the wider world were capable of such a thing, there wouldn't be any pandemic, because it would have been stopped before it got to that point.


A stance of personal responsibility is always reasonable. Tyranny through edict and pseudo-science is unreasonable. Masking is a perfect example, the bulk of masks worn in the US aren't capable of doing what they're being used for, as stated on their labeling and seen in OSHA/NIOSH testing. Never mind that droplet/aerosol protocol requires a HAZMAT suit and hood respirator, which is why you don't see ebola workers walking around in surgical masks and trashbag gowns.



Blameless said:


> Utter nonsense. There is plenty of actual data on COVID-19. If you're doubting the death toll because SARS-CoV-2 doesn't directly kill the majority of it's victims, you might want to rethink your AIDS comparison, because that kills almost no one, in and of itself. An AIDS patient that dies from an opportunistic infection or cancer still goes down as an AIDS-related death, for damn good reason.
> 
> SARS-CoV-2 has been responsible for more deaths in the last year than all prior SARS outbreaks (whose lessons weren't heeded), plus all the world wide cases of plague (which hasn't been scary since the invention of antibiotics) in modern times, combined. It's even significantly out doing HIV/AIDS, in the short term.


If it is so bad then differentiation between dying _with_ and dying _from_ would be used, like it has been for everything else. That there is no differentiation in the majority of Western nations is because the figures directly related to deaths _from_ are too low to frighten people into giving up their liberties. Health groups have already said that they're being very loose in how they're counting fatalities. This is almost certainly why Cov 2 has surpassed previous Sars strains in terms of death toll. Beyond that, which data. For every "study" I find saying X I can find another saying Y and Z. Then the bulk of that data flies openly in the face of existing virology, immunology, and hazardous environment knowledge. Do I believe the one outlying incident or the sum of field knowledge? I'd have to say the latter.

That the bulk of deaths are from complications from Sars makes the AIDs analogy perfect because they function largely the same way. Further, I can branch off and argue that we should now ban fast food, sodas, corn syrups, artificial sweeteners, most medication, cell phones, radios, all forms of modern power generation, and most forms of production because they all lead to people dying both directly and indirectly.



Blameless said:


> Subjectively speaking SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 is more frightening than HIV/AIDS because it's vastly more transmissible and relatively less treatable. I don't need to worry about contracting HIV because I'm not having unprotected sex with untested people, and if were I an intravenous drug user, I'd be using clean needles. Also, concealing one's HIV positive status from a sexual partner can and has been treated as a crime in some jurisdictions on the principle that it violates informed consent. However, the odds of transmission are relatively low and categorically criminalizing omission of one's HIV status has been shown to not be in the interest of public health.


It's only more transmissible because of the transmission vector, otherwise it's about the same degree of infectious and less lethal to the wider population. Sars also doesn't remain a lifelong threat if you've had it.



Blameless said:


> And yes, if you accidentally sneeze on someone during a pandemic of a serious respiratory illness--which is only possible if you are way too close and not wearing a face covering--you are scum.


That sneeze would likely be far more sanitary than the vast majority of things you touched in your daily life without second thought about sanitizing your hands 2 years ago.



Blameless said:


> It's not and the passage you quoted wasn't an example of such.


Sure it was, or is geopolitics exempt from your claim?


----------



## ILoveHighDPI

If this is what Brian Surgery looks like, masks must be pretty effective at stopping the spread of any contagion in your breath.
The point is staying safe means you need to check the status of the mask on the face of every person around you.
And it's your job to wear a mask properly in case you are an asymptomatic carrier.


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## kiriakos

Atomagenesis said:


> Crypto-mining is the main issue.


This is a false speculation which I have read hundreds of times.
I would care to know how many VGA they have be shipped away in January ( a month time) from ASUS factory to worldwide markets.

To all:
VGA pricing has not changed, pricing search engines are to blame for taking pricing samples from dead or outdated Amazon links.
The concept of Automated Pricing research software is the one Failed, in a time that there is low hardware parts availability.

I am a TRUE computer user for 25 years.
I have built just for me 17 systems over time, and wasted a sum of 15.000 Euro ( Equal value of a damn car and not of the cheapest one). 
The healthy concept of a SMART overclocker is to gently PUSH the clocks of his system at times as these.
Get a bit more performance from computer hardware that you all ready own..


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## 8051

ILoveHighDPI said:


> View attachment 2478573
> 
> 
> If this is what Brian Surgery looks like, masks must be pretty effective at stopping the spread of any contagion in your breath.
> The point is staying safe means you need to check the status of the mask on the face of every person around you.
> And it's your job to wear a mask properly in case you are an asymptomatic carrier.


But is this what surgical suite apparel looks like in the COVID-19 era?


----------



## Schmuckley

It's not like games are being written for PC master race hardware these days.
Games are written and dumbed down to phone level these days.

Also "Always on DRM", because you gotta pay to play!


----------



## Schmuckley

GTX 1660 is something I see as being a decent choice for OP.


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## ILoveHighDPI

Schmuckley said:


> It's not like games are being written for PC master race hardware these days.
> Games are written and dumbed down to phone level these days.
> 
> Also "Always on DRM", because you gotta pay to play!


Except Cyberpunk.
DRM Free, and so graphically intensive it is practically not compatible with last gen consoles.


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## Schmuckley

ILoveHighDPI said:


> Except Cyberpunk.
> DRM Free, and so graphically intensive it is practically not compatible with last gen consoles.


So what would you say is the best hardware to run it?


----------



## ILoveHighDPI

Schmuckley said:


> So what would you say is the best hardware to run it?


RX7800XT/RTX4080


----------



## Special Ed

I think I will build a Crypto-mining rig with 78 RTX 3080 cards! Will make $100k per year. I will tap into neighbor's electricity so I save on power costs!


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## Elrick

Special Ed said:


> I think I will build a Crypto-mining rig with 78 RTX 3080 cards! Will make $100k per year. I will tap into neighbor's electricity so I save on power costs!


First off, your local Police shall be notified on your excessive power usage since they would conclude, you would be doing something illegal like growing unauthorised 'Weed' and/or other drugs not approved or taxed, by your Local and State Governments.

Also, they can get the local power provider to track any lines coming from one place into another to determine where the power usage is, plus the heat it exhibits. They do have authorised Military Heat Detectors to find lines, circuitry and power outlets that exhibit any heat/power. 

Plus, X-Ray scanners to see through homes and the occupants inside, like the DEA has.

Welcome to this new age of complete surveillance....


----------



## Special Ed

Elrick said:


> First off, your local Police shall be notified on your excessive power usage since they would conclude, you would be doing something illegal like growing unauthorised 'Weed' and/or other drugs not approved or taxed, by your Local and State Governments.
> 
> Also, they can get the local power provider to track any lines coming from one place into another to determine where the power usage is, plus the heat it exhibits. They do have authorised Military Heat Detectors to find lines, circuitry and power outlets that exhibit any heat/power.
> 
> Plus, X-Ray scanners to see through homes and the occupants inside, like the DEA has.
> 
> Welcome to this new age of complete surveillance....


You must be fun at parties!


----------



## Shawnb99

Elrick said:


> First off, your local Police shall be notified on your excessive power usage since they would conclude, you would be doing something illegal like growing unauthorised 'Weed' and/or other drugs not approved or taxed, by your Local and State Governments.
> 
> Also, they can get the local power provider to track any lines coming from one place into another to determine where the power usage is, plus the heat it exhibits. They do have authorised Military Heat Detectors to find lines, circuitry and power outlets that exhibit any heat/power.
> 
> Plus, X-Ray scanners to see through homes and the occupants inside, like the DEA has.
> 
> Welcome to this new age of complete surveillance....


***** such BS. Welcome to reality where BS like this gets called out for the BS that it is. Try again with the lies


----------



## schuck6566

UltraMega said:


> Damn... I just looked at the prices for a used 1080ti and they're going for about $600 now here in the US. Two weeks ago they were going for $450.


lol, about 2-3 months ago I helped a friend upgrade a used comp he bought. Found a refurbed Zotac 1060 6GB AMP! card (with a warranty)for about $160-$170 after S&H from Zotac's site on ebay. Now ANY GTX 1060 6GB card is STARTING around $250.00 used Some bids on a msi,and an Asus have already gotten them over $300.00.the lack of cards are driving the prices on anything halfway usable sky high.


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## ILoveHighDPI

Shawnb99 said:


> *** such BS. Welcome to reality where BS like this gets called out for the BS that it is. Try again with the lies


He's not wrong, he's just responding to obvious trollbait.


----------

